< 1356740292 187210 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1356740727 180328 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran JOIN :#esoteric < 1356741171 407632 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356741841 541078 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356741869 514439 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356741946 607973 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356742158 432550 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356743164 309221 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356743189 407691 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356743189 591792 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356743189 591953 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356743371 124187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356744083 365191 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356744309 618369 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ais523 does stealth lose track of where its own flag is during the deep poke? how much bigger would it be if it didnt? < 1356744309 831997 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1356744356 999388 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks baffled, picks up the comment, rotates it, looks baffled again < 1356744377 201334 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! bf joust < 1356744382 55618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes, and exponentially larger < 1356744382 372266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1356744387 703075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1356744388 223171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia asked 1m 18s ago: does stealth lose track of where its own flag is during the deep poke? how much bigger would it be if it didnt? < 1356744407 298672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealth clear is a new sort of clear loop that I should document < 1356744409 146986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also stealth poke < 1356744417 887339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has limitations < 1356744433 95623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, it has an order of recognised decoy sizes < 1356744455 332136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from one decoy to the next, it can move any distance forwards in the order, but only up to 1 backwards < 1356744480 279138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealth uses 0,-1,1,2,-2,-3,3,5,1,0 < 1356744494 546915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 5 is to recognise its own decoys, when it's forgotten where its flag is < 1356744508 150943 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can search for its own flag < 1356744511 372966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I should remove that in the long-tape case given that its decoys in that case aren't actually size 5 < 1356744512 821591 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1356744524 159503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't get caught on its own decoys < 1356744534 802041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the 1,0 is for once it's got past its own decoys < 1356744544 791292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding the 1 there makes it faster on a row of 0s < 1356744558 844795 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just noticed that the usual reason it loses is that the decoys it leaves near its own flag are always abysmally small. so other pokes go through them like shit through a goose < 1356744560 505614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an algorithm with a lot of drawbacks < 1356744567 35248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's a fast rush < 1356744570 988724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we haven't had one of those for /months/ < 1356744579 708323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, there's an innovation < 1356744590 516908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once the clear loop finds something that's larger than its wiggle < 1356744595 651868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it goes back and sets some large decoys < 1356744606 909142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere vaguely approximately near its flag < 1356744622 67456 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a fast rush? it spends an awful lot of time building decoys for a fast rush < 1356744639 23857 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.212 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kekeke ais rush < 1356744639 632992 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would expect a fast rush to start clearing once it found an unrecognized decoy. < 1356744644 257907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, much of the logic near the end, apart from the deep undermine, is to do with trying to guess where its own flag is < 1356744662 847232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well my definition is that it attacks before setting any large decoys < 1356744664 368850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it does < 1356744686 686611 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? on what cases? < 1356744706 902454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sets large decoys when it finds the first opposing medium or larger decoys on the long-tape cases < 1356744713 860784 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where we define attack as actually trying to clear a flag of course) < 1356744714 811882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it actually interrupts the clear to set decoys < 1356744742 349478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is mostly a bad idea if it's actually on the enemy flag at the time, but the odds of that are pretty low < 1356744744 262063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general it helps < 1356744759 310582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is to try its best to get /inside/ the opposing decoy setup < 1356744796 125524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… an alternative definition is to say that a fast rush aims to interact with the opponent while it's setting decoys < 1356744801 707345 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it. in the programs i played it against, the extra decoys end up so far from its flag it would have been better off just trying to clear. which programs does it help against? or is it a short tape thing? < 1356744803 508323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a slow rush instead prefers to make its own decoys secure < 1356744834 485974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mostly help against slow rushes < 1356744837 537176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually they might not help any more < 1356744860 167548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they help in the case where an enemy poke sets up large-ish decoys first < 1356744864 635312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be that I trailed to avoid pokes < 1356744869 211650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turned out to work better if I didn't < 1356744914 444426 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so pokes can mostly beat it now < 1356744936 635154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1356744941 947583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, against pokes it normally finds the enemy flag before they even get back < 1356744962 56591 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not against space_elevator < 1356744979 704185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not against that < 1356744983 630802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does against most of the others though < 1356744988 831482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I tried removing the large decoys as a test < 1356745010 890719 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ends up doing some crazy building of medium decoys across the middle of the tape instead of finding the flag < 1356745021 410522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hurts against basically all the rush programs < 1356745025 769641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps against space_elevator and defence < 1356745040 707236 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1356745045 367754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the medium decoy spam is basically because it buys considerably more time than it costs against slow rushes < 1356745057 60096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I can set those up faster than I could clear one decoy < 1356745059 419650 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you optimize the size of the large decoys at all? < 1356745064 408242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356745073 522734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was important not to set too many < 1356745080 985016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried smallish ones and largish ones < 1356745083 935020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the very large ones worked best < 1356745142 25517 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. cant wait to see the docs on the new strategies < 1356745179 617809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it hasn't won, so there won't be any :( < 1356745185 654632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the clear loop itself < 1356745193 875846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, look at its trace against quintopia_poke, if you want an example < 1356745199 679981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it gets /inside/ poke's decoy setup < 1356745217 754629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it finds the flag first, whereas poke finds its interim decoy on cell 3 < 1356745265 711847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sets the extra decoys too far from its flag to matter < 1356745273 256776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't matter because it's already found the enemy flag in that case < 1356745307 659219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want an example of them helping, look at it against space_hotel on length 25 < 1356745337 432057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets the flag down first by like 10 cycles :) < 1356745388 238826 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched both of those already < 1356745392 738321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1356745405 600524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it also coincidentally helps by completely throwing off the timing of tripwire-based defence algorithms < 1356745406 381103 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm discounting poke...it's a very stupid program :P < 1356745409 927789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1356745503 885956 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you decide that decoy size order < 1356745521 195948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fast rushing so it can't afford to set large decoys early < 1356745527 561411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to find the opponent first, and even start clearing < 1356745539 440449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it's found something it can't clear efficiently, then it sets the large decoys < 1356745559 731543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because clearing a large decoy takes forever, so setting large decoys doesn't significantly slow it down < 1356745619 268034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the other new strat is the deep undermine (or, well, shallow undermine) < 1356745640 922663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on long tapes, if it finds an enemy large decoy a little beyond its own < 1356745652 852212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so medium-length tapes < 1356745665 951614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it assumes reverse decoy setup with potential trail, and looks for the trail behind the enemy decoys < 1356745678 223216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it restores it so the opponent can't detect that it's been infiltrated < 1356745689 919329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the opponent's using forward decoy setup, it runs off the end in that case < 1356745698 845170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that case is very hard to trigger with a forward decoy setup < 1356745710 19555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some programs can do it on very short tapes < 1356745810 142392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just sacrificed those < 1356745821 933828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess the program has different short/medium/long modes < 1356745853 186578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, looking at this against fast rushes, I know what the medium decoys are for < 1356745862 203363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're set up fast enough that they can typically overtake the opponent's clear lopo < 1356745864 326836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*loop < 1356746170 272809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder how I can make stealth better < 1356746177 607595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't lose very much, but its losses are expected ones < 1356746192 684837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does win against the things it's meant to win against < 1356746201 927266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cookie cutter deep poke with breadcrumb decoy programs) < 1356746215 331497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :space_elevator isn't really cookie cutter, it's a bit too old for that < 1356746280 857563 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356746869 691765 :greyooze!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356746909 935735 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.212 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356746942 603280 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i meant the list of sizes to check < 1356746951 420587 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the deep poke < 1356746962 151687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, it's just 1-3 because those are the only commonly used reverse tripwires < 1356746967 855526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus its own decoys so it doesn't get caught on them < 1356747026 166471 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never written a deep poke < 1356747038 47241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it doesn't actually do a deep poke < 1356747047 699209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you consider the interrupted clear to be a poke, which it is in a way < 1356747057 250233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does a shallow poke < 1356747075 563975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to start off with < 1356747083 49414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the decoy size list is mostly used in the clear loop < 1356747085 19638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to restore decoys < 1356747122 358646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a wiggle clear, with the twist that the wiggle restores the decoys before moving on < 1356747135 422704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it also uses the inflexible timer clear pattern, in order to fit everything in < 1356747138 100799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this explains the weird behaviour < 1356747142 190823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it the flexible one? < 1356747146 760509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there isn't an actual timer clear < 1356747170 155961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try to add one, but I don't think it'd help that much < 1356747294 509957 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356747299 834918 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356747650 890688 :greyooze!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net NICK :GreyKnight < 1356747860 646967 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little light entertainment courtesy of #nethack: Linus chewing out a kernel maintainer: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 < 1356747889 208433 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scary :-S < 1356748018 968607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: that's been going round Reddit and Slashdot several days ago < 1356748049 624370 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I'm not really in "the loop" :-P < 1356748073 955986 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is pretty much the high water mark of my online socialising < 1356748146 827349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, Fiora < 1356748324 965703 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't find it that entertaining < 1356748337 580873 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a real problem that open source development is dominated by assholes < 1356748370 278374 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we tell ourselves it's a meritocracy but it's really about who can dish out and take the most abuse on mailing lists without burning out < 1356748481 747684 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this was a typical exchange, perhaps Linus was having a bad day and they will kiss and make up later < 1356748499 531025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I've heard that Linus gets very annoyed at people who are in charge of something when they're not doing their jobs properly < 1356748508 371829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a subsystem maintainer, who's meant to be keeping bad code out) < 1356748517 739377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the hope that it'll reform them without having to actually fire them < 1356748614 105273 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-28-244.dlth.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he went a bit too far there but the base complaint was valid < 1356748625 214344 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-28-244.dlth.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a bit less profanity < 1356748648 612400 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's no surprise how many open source projects end up getting forked and renamed just to escape the toxic ruins of a developer community < 1356748671 788366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the substance of the complaint doesn't matter, the only reason anyone is paying attention is the tone < 1356748672 734057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eglibc! < 1356748687 519776 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolredhat < 1356748774 625832 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C-INTERCAL :-) < 1356748780 794756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :among other things, it's a diversity problem < 1356748796 463721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: that's never been particularly forked or renamed < 1356748800 396480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was stolen < 1356748803 388612 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YET < 1356748805 78327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then subsequently returned < 1356748815 869282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(something that /doesn't/ happen to open source projects often) < 1356748817 411573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who will put up with mailing list assholes are disproportionately going to be privileged white men who have been told practically from birth that they are god's gift to code < 1356748819 434326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the name has been the same constantly < 1356748881 32142 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're from an underrepresented group that already gets tons of "you don't belong here" signals, are you going to put up with that shit? < 1356748885 290039 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few people will, but it's a huge barrier < 1356748909 411492 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356748919 816765 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356748930 677094 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also feel like every time linus talks about how it's good to offend people, it emboldens some hacker news asshole who thinks that putting hardcore pornography in conference slides is a great way to stick it to the man < 1356748958 655031 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me this is not a thing < 1356748972 305197 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "We stole this but it was so terrible we'd like to give it back"? :o) < 1356748983 953059 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There has been inappropriate imagery in conference slides < 1356748987 157214 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Sexualized_presentation < 1356749005 174455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: actualy what happened was that Donald Knuth got involved < 1356749006 131158 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's particularly characteristic of the Rails community < 1356749016 491484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which prompted ESR to investigate, and he then noticed it had been stolen < 1356749021 679512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they combine immature broishness with a misguided sense of rebellion < 1356749026 759598 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it happens everywhere < 1356749104 816986 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What has been stolen? < 1356749115 68866 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL? I think < 1356749124 460899 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused < 1356749148 942738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C-INTERCAL < 1356749317 435933 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone stole it, and then a crack team of ace detectives headed by Donald Knuth and ESR tracked the thieves to their lair downtown. There was a shootout and C-INTERCAL was eventually retrieved and returned to its rightful owners. The end. < 1356749342 313560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: basically, what happened was, that C-INTERCAL had been mostly dormant < 1356749354 53836 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and Professor Knuth got the girl (of course) < 1356749367 822114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so when I patched it, I decided to just arbitrarily become maintainer, and released the patched version with the next available version number in the same place < 1356749370 704739 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're interested in a vision of open source which is more friendly and inclusive, check out https://openhatch.org < 1356749385 346161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it worked like a charm; at least, the entire esolang community went along with it, also Debian < 1356749396 652462 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they work on helping beginners find suitable stuff to work on < 1356749404 272129 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and helping them learn skills they need, online or at in-person workshops < 1356749424 852199 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356749425 157822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Knuth decided (for reasons best known to himself) that he badly needed and esolang compiler < 1356749443 133777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an INTERCAL compiler < 1356749443 361385 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most open source stuff is friendly and inclusive, at least at the beginning ;-) < 1356749444 336233 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356749444 521084 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356749458 188245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, basically, emailed ESR with "hey, aren't you working on an INTERCAL compiler? I need one" < 1356749466 801877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ESR discovered it had been maintained in his absence < 1356749471 325775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now we're comaintainers < 1356749474 651182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he contributed a test suite) < 1356749484 585402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to the latest version I'd released) < 1356749562 489257 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a crack team of ace detectives headed by Donald Knuth and ESR escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. < 1356749583 169630 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's it like working with ESR? < 1356749605 941441 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1356749616 765769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: he believes we agree with each other more than I believe we agree with each other < 1356749637 110695 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need an algorithm, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the λ-Team. < 1356749654 57720 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#music# < 1356749719 455908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also he broke the build by not understanding why the autotools stuff was too complex < 1356749728 529033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although to his credit, he reverted when I explained < 1356749755 494943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, it was a case involving cross-compilation) < 1356749772 700986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C-INTERCAL does even Canadian Crosses just fine < 1356749824 650941 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356749938 968893 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 reading between the lines here and earlier, but have you gone and created the most advanced usage of autotools in the world :-I < 1356749957 436593 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION crosses his legs and stares < 1356749972 846438 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356749984 843347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: yes < 1356749991 575856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that, I may as well do autotools properly < 1356749996 813304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because probably nobody has before ever < 1356750000 697529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except possibly in automake's test suite < 1356750085 415056 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now < 1356750090 77147 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something < 1356750137 349012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: let me put it this way: INTERCAL's mission is "different from everything else" < 1356750143 703396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that this doesn't imply "worse", just "different" < 1356750156 512454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cases where all existing projects ignored the standards, I made a point of following them < 1356750165 565592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, there's a POSIX standard for tarballs that nobody actually uses < 1356750173 178368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C-INTERCAL does! < 1356750193 281735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that luckily, all standard tar programs can read POSIX standard tarballs; you know, just in case) < 1356750263 432478 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1356750274 659815 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is actually a very valid point < 1356750293 625705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"autotools but correctly" is thus pretty much closer to INTERCAL's mission statement than almost anything else < 1356750316 500581 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There exists a correct use of autotools? < 1356750321 319915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has automated tests that, e.g., out-of-tree builds work correctly – as part of generating the distribution tarball < 1356750325 686141 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does C-INTERCAL also do things like checking the return code from printf()? < 1356750340 112161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I'm not sure; it should, but that doesn't mean it does < 1356750343 174145 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which nobody ever does) < 1356750347 916017 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that < 1356750352 791228 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps < 1356750358 648679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course there's the usual issue of "what are you going to do if you get a short write anyway?", with typical uses of printf) < 1356750378 285452 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I have written programs that do that < 1356750399 932316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, checking the return value from /close/ is actually useful < 1356750403 892084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet people hardly ever do that either < 1356750408 895464 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/xVFNe2LP < 1356750438 774498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also flush, which is even rarer < 1356750456 309371 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :When does fclose fail < 1356750496 60519 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: ♫ < 1356750507 442215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: most commonly, if you've tried to write data since the last flush, it does that asynchronously (because, you know, you didn't flush), and it runs out of disk space trying to complete the async write < 1356750526 496557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other ways to set that up, but that particular scenario is actually even a plausible one < 1356750542 488013 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on my 2TB disks < 1356750562 115895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what things like tiny tmpfses and /dev/full are for < 1356750582 100312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat /etc/passwd > /dev/full < 1356750583 550710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: write error: No space left on device < 1356750589 927814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/full is one of my favourite special files ever < 1356750606 65973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's notionally a zero-byte file on a filesystem with a quota of zero < 1356750611 456574 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP says (on [[INTERCAL]]) "[...] C-INTERCAL, formerly maintained by Eric S. Raymond [...]" < 1356750616 854417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I know < 1356750620 163508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that < 1356750622 16011 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely ais523 counts as famous by this stage < 1356750627 364878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't have a reliable source to prove I maintained it < 1356750631 686977 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make yerself a page ;-) < 1356750633 233750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it's easy to prove that ESR maintained it once < 1356750635 706558 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of course < 1356750638 106484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: the wikipedia page on me was deleted < 1356750640 556918 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be OR, my mistake < 1356750642 868358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was probably the right decision < 1356750667 714984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :autotools is ridiculous and strange, but it does solve a problem that few other tools handle < 1356750678 467475 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: data expands to fill the space available :-) < 1356750691 507109 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no drive is ever big enough < 1356750692 195685 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my opinion of autotools actually improved after doing some non-trivial configure.ac editing < 1356750708 497631 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"alex smith, the guy who did one cool thing in life, but also happens to maintain c-intercal" best wikipedia article ever" < 1356750722 449683 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356750722 670343 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356750722 670470 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356750750 237335 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're still mentioned on the disambig though < 1356750763 955688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, seems about right < 1356750773 68316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I still the world's 11th most famous alex smith? < 1356750777 141736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an accolade I can get behind < 1356750785 591946 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maintaining C-INTERCAL counts as cool surely < 1356750786 805461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see him in disambig < 1356750789 41331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is a very common name) < 1356750793 744151 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: mainly because nobody wants to write another tool that does that autotools does < 1356750794 64080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: disambig for "alex smith" < 1356750803 574648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a /lot/ of disambiguating < 1356750807 347300 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1356750810 690085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: aimake! :) < 1356750814 595450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still in early stages < 1356750816 664739 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: google only shows 10 results per page < 1356750824 317250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: based on Wikipedia < 1356750824 855185 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we have faith in you < 1356750825 821562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on Google < 1356750827 64361 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the lazy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Smith_%28disambiguation%29 < 1356750832 55664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is awful at distinguishing alex smiths from each other < 1356750848 599292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1356750852 162567 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Alex Smith]] is some American football player, yawn < 1356750852 479981 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're getting it mixed up. Wikipedia is a source of nobility. Google is the source of fame. < 1356750853 100137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's added a bunch more footballers < 1356750895 121530 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yeah... Git uses a 3000 line Makefile which is full of explicit "ifeq ($(uname_S),FreeBSD)", rather than testing for the respective features < 1356750909 911944 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/Makefile < 1356750919 854157 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356750928 53827 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to read the [[Alex Smith]] page but I got *bored out of my mind* < 1356750941 699576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: yeah, that isn't me :) < 1356750944 586193 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TM proofs are more interesting mio < 1356750946 129943 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first I read that it was calling uname like 3000 times < 1356750946 314563 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1356750953 173749 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did I typo that kill me < 1356750993 739120 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure this approach is better in some ways, but it's not exactly ponies and rainbows < 1356750995 451478 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know :-P < 1356751009 482496 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makefile conditionals are fun. There isn't an "elseif" directive < 1356751064 840192 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif endif < 1356751077 734463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, C-INTERCAL actually compiles on DOS < 1356751080 164500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still using autotools < 1356751091 514751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly you need a DOS port of bash, but they aren't massively hard to come by) < 1356751095 909630 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to think that the stuff autoconf tests is irrelevant on modern systems < 1356751101 955634 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In week 5, Smith was booed at home and the crowd chanted for his backup, David Carr, before leading the 49ers to two scoring drives to close within three points." I don't understand why we can have pages and pages of this but no Pokemon articles < 1356751115 907244 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i worked on Mosh and saw how much conditional stuff was required to build that on just Linux, FreeBSD, and OS X < 1356751120 677235 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by now a few other platforms) < 1356751140 580883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course we also check for a ton of stuff that's irrelevant on modern systems just because < 1356751151 631126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: autotools removed its test for the existence of #! :( < 1356751152 907957 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking if size_t is an integer and not a bobcat... ok < 1356751155 419859 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1356751156 949047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to rewrite it by hand < 1356751169 711923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually relevant on DOS < 1356751170 615835 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't just revert their removal? < 1356751173 117275 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1356751189 563708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnl Yes, that is a valid email address. If your mailer doesn't support nested < 1356751191 27627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnl comments, then get a better mailer. < 1356751194 332973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I can't commit to autoconf's codebase < 1356751228 271350 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but you couldn't rip out whatever macro they had and bundle it? < 1356751228 864687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, and autoconf is kind-of buggy in other ways too < 1356751230 359324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnl Don't assume yacc exists just because bison doesn't (wtf autoconf...) < 1356751235 839522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I pretty much did that < 1356751286 170690 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is fairly wtf < 1356751294 416091 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking if sizeof(int) is non-negative... ok < 1356751307 710754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: which configure script is this? :) < 1356751320 497652 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making it up for lols :-) < 1356751327 485535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, OK < 1356751335 752926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually running C-INTERCAL's now, just for fun < 1356751336 122327 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I assumed the bobcat one was made-up too but you never know I guess < 1356751349 728669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(./config.status --recheck in the build dir) < 1356751371 82162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing there is massively crazy < 1356751407 577481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although "checking for clock_gettime... no" looks like a bug < 1356751414 733368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm moderately sure clock_gettime exists on Linux < 1356751425 773942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's a missing -lrt in the test < 1356751437 750157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, autotools should let you know what libraries the functions you request exist in < 1356751463 764358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aimake does that, although in order to avoid it scanning the entirety of /usr/lib for functions (which it can do but takes a while), you currently have to suggest to it names of libraries it they might be in < 1356751490 161410 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nice < 1356751508 847826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aimake is awesome, but unfinished and a little buggy < 1356751521 725424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I can't figure out how to get it to make shared libraries, due to a chicken-and-egg problem < 1356751555 706534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, you need to know if the functions included in a file are destined to go into a shared library to know what options to give when compiling it, but need to compile it to see which functions it contains) < 1356751568 385989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the aim of aimake is low-configuration builds that just work < 1356751606 77830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a nice comparison: http://sprunge.us/KPED < 1356751692 636684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here's aimake.config itself: http://sprunge.us/bMJZ < 1356751741 457032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that nothing in aimake.config could reasonably be guessed by the build system < 1356751760 630129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe the rule for .o < 1356751835 396407 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this. I have parts of a lisp make system with a similar end in mind < 1356751850 573065 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make it *work* and get out of the way < 1356751893 386971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aimake is written in Perl, and the reason is, because I realised there were only two languages it could possibly be written in < 1356751895 207650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl and Python < 1356751902 712673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both have to be widely installed already on people's systems < 1356751908 927749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I even backported it to Perl 5.8 < 1356751919 194922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it can't use any libraries that aren't part of a standard minimal distribution < 1356751943 514047 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot posix sh < 1356751952 53627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why it uses Perl syntax for the config file (parseable using Safe+eval, which is part of Perl's standard distribution), rather than something like YAML, which needs libraries or else rewriting a parser from scratch < 1356751954 899082 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[/troll] < 1356751962 748058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have a feeling that wouldn't work < 1356751971 997679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Perl works just fine on Windows < 1356751979 811186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aimake doesn't, but only because of missing entries for Windows in its config files < 1356751983 825870 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1356751984 9793 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hey, you wouldn't even need to test for a usable shell then! < 1356751988 373774 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use my thing for my own use so I could at least rely on stuff being installed ;-) < 1356752038 895378 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe aimake is the future :-o < 1356752042 542761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope so < 1356752049 149770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really used it for anything but nh4 < 1356752052 932797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few test programs < 1356752056 722405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the nh4 repo is the aimake repo atm < 1356752064 501246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I originally had them separate but it was too much effort < 1356752080 426944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other thing I did with aimake was to ensure that it was all one file < 1356752082 588241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you could just ship < 1356752096 275767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can't atm because I haven't put explicit licensing conditions on it < 1356752117 142493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I'd go GPLv3 eventually < 1356752125 309374 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone using nh4 yet < 1356752128 497229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's a build system and thus doesn't need to have the same license as the thing it's building < 1356752136 540037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: sure; there's a public server, people play on it < 1356752186 254784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's playing it atm, actually < 1356752272 680193 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very well < 1356752424 851044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as popular as 3.4.3 yet, though < 1356752429 434583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because it's rather unfinished < 1356752577 704032 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I should start playing Brogue again < 1356752579 923423 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was playing powder the other day < 1356752583 656469 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no Brogue servers :( < 1356752586 325289 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powder? < 1356752604 73818 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has an interactive tutorial, where at one point there are items on the ground and you are asked to use-identify them < 1356752617 851158 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the items are randomly generated in each tutorial < 1356752624 210031 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately if you use GPL then a lot of people and companies will irrationally shun your software < 1356752635 479258 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if they are totally capable of complying with the terms < 1356752659 227768 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using BSD or MIT license will reduce the amount of bullshit and trolls directed your way < 1356752664 3809 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, what about public domain? Does that get shunned? < 1356752670 337099 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be a bad reason to do something, but there you go < 1356752692 514651 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, only by pedants (like me) who point out that it's legally ambiguous at best < 1356752708 421460 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtfpl is fairly unambigious < 1356752711 417391 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we were talking about shunning because of a fear of open source in general < 1356752717 439518 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea that proprietary is better < 1356752723 733422 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all jurisdictions have a concept of "public domain" and even if they do, you can't necessarily place things into it other than by dying and waiting 70 years < 1356752737 5461 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, i'm talking about a hatred of the GPL and a fear of its viral clauses < 1356752751 252593 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of companies forbid the use of any GPL software internally, or require explicit approval < 1356752756 526671 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are perfectly fine with permissive licenses < 1356752773 894168 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are terrified that a bit of GPL code will get into something they make and that 10 years later they will get sued for some huge amount < 1356752790 750697 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTFPL is amusing but you should at least pair it with a warranty clause if you're distributing software < 1356752794 790221 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that is not an unrealistic fear < 1356752804 631679 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do warranty clauses even mean anything < 1356752814 840797 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC0 is a long-winded but comprehensive waiver of all copyright and associated rights < 1356752826 984552 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: i don't know, IANAL, but people i've talked to seme to think it's important < 1356752843 922096 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and specifically that parts need to be in ALL CAPS because case law holds that warranty disclaimers must be prominent < 1356752858 959570 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like software writers assume themselves to be held liable for any bugs anyway < 1356752864 969590 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In, since ever < 1356752878 282958 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yeah, it's not totally unrealistic fear; otoh I think some parties go way too far < 1356752878 467159 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we have an HTML license with blink tags for prominence :-I < 1356752893 809219 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you use GPL then random trolls who have no interest in your software will join your IRC channel to tell you to burn in hell < 1356752899 123034 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really remarkable < 1356752938 447777 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it doesn't matter if you assume yourself to be liable; it matters if the courts hold you liable < 1356752974 694185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's some idea that you are liable by default, but can disclaim some of that < 1356752976 719434 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some open-sourced project's project manager attempted to put the project under public domain, without asking any of the contributors (myself included) < 1356752994 496429 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the courts have held programmers liable before, they would not think that they are so liable < 1356753009 855322 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much case law is there for this < 1356753017 711793 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i don't know < 1356753102 316824 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sucks < 1356753102 800770 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :

THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED WITH ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. THE AUTHORS DISCLAIM RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL LOSS OR DAMAGE CAUSED BY THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF USED IN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, MOTOR VEHICLES, NUCLEAR REACTORS OR PACEMAKERS IF YOU ARE CRAZY ENOUGH TO DO THAT. DO YOUR EARS HURT YET?

< 1356753239 249050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the all caps thing is because the law just says "prominent"< which is a little hard to define < 1356753247 517172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's case law saying that all caps is sufficient < 1356753255 51441 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is what i have heard as well < 1356753259 924987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and faced with a strategy that's known to work, and several others which might or might not work < 1356753264 327855 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never see warranty disclaimers in "about" dialogs though < 1356753267 530509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawyers tend to take the safe route < 1356753267 950942 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder why < 1356753275 659611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: there's one in jettyplay's, fwiw < 1356753275 843589 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the intent of the law was to avoid people putting disclaimers in tiny text < 1356753285 511143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so do I < 1356753285 698319 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: huh, i think i have seen them < 1356753308 874970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me look at the EULA the lawyers at work wrote < 1356753328 905688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, allcaps < 1356753334 910768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for anyone else who wants to laugh, https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/download/licence < 1356753359 493429 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't licence a verb < 1356753362 915690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1356753367 788720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the spelling the lawyers gave us < 1356753371 880127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who am I to fix it? < 1356753386 415953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I'm pretty sure I made that mistake myself in jettyplay) < 1356753417 26491 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm functional FPGA design < 1356753420 371022 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1356753424 539110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's my day job < 1356753428 46045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the teaching < 1356753430 508689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also my day job < 1356753433 464768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two part-time jobs atm < 1356753459 923316 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356753556 601927 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit stop being good at everything >:-( < 1356753566 670937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not good at everything < 1356753572 121163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tend to talk mostly on subjects I'm good at < 1356753605 645494 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stealth does a shallow poke, then builds some decoys before doing its wiggle clear, right? < 1356753614 766932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes < 1356753618 926134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :medium-sized ones < 1356753625 199305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 with a nearby enemy, 7 if it was further away < 1356753631 370593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and if it reaches tape length 11, it builds them anyway < 1356753637 496744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then does a wiggled undermine < 1356753652 404148 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you made the decoy closest to its flag have a value equal to its distance from the flag < 1356753656 813214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the enemy sets decoys to 11 in the meantime < 1356753667 481004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: huh, why would that help? < 1356753697 555830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the wiggled undermine only helps in a specific range of tape lengths, but it's awesome there and beats basically every BF Joust program in existence) < 1356753723 952096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you mean to work out where on the tape we were? it's both vulnerable to enemy interference, and requires way too long to check < 1356753730 211145 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could clear it to figure out instantly where its own flag was < 1356753738 821064 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then build the large decoys in front of its flag < 1356753759 131077 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1356753766 25692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yeah but if it encounters, say, a "2" < 1356753769 871780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that two spaces from its own flag < 1356753772 946315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the enemy trailing 2s < 1356753775 862930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(space_hotel trails 2s) < 1356753815 326642 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be fooled for sure, but it has a series of 5s in front, so it will probably be back there before the enemy changes it < 1356753872 603436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it often isn't < 1356753874 939338 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately you could have a sequence of decoys that increase away from the flag. then you will know where you are from any of them and also have error correction built in < 1356753877 191607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially against the programs it's trying to beat < 1356753879 872692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fast rushes < 1356753898 767703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the medium-sized decoys, I might gain a bit more time by mixing the reverse and forward setup < 1356753919 700204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the initial decoy setup, I cannot really stall on < 1356753922 787725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time there is really previous < 1356753926 557371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*precious < 1356753929 88691 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1356753933 524711 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356753939 929564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 5 on cell 3 is basically the biggest compromise I'm willing to make < 1356753954 911961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's only to ensure that pokes don't find the flag itself < 1356753965 924448 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356753974 351211 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont propose to change that setup < 1356753988 272473 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :im only talking about the decoy build after the shallow poke < 1356753999 652590 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you still know where you are < 1356754033 777052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1356754041 334094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually originally that code didn't know where it was < 1356754048 112486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I split it out for a little finer control < 1356754056 55692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess I could make the medium build vary < 1356754100 550512 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you dont try the increasing decoys away from the flag thing, i might. it seems like it could provide a lot of data if you could figure out how to analyze it < 1356754137 143063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I'd be interested to see what you come up with < 1356754143 531912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm kind of happy that stealth isn't #1 < 1356754154 949008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it beats the current "best programs", at least over half the time < 1356754160 119939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it loses to more normal stuff < 1356754163 779124 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt actually see where it landed < 1356754167 415202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully this will get a bit of diversity back in the hill < 1356754171 186536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like #8 or so < 1356754175 3435 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1356754175 188113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but much higher on points < 1356754189 800120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#10 at the moment < 1356754191 668000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dropped a bit < 1356754204 630847 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what dropped it < 1356754207 300967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's #4 on points, though < 1356754213 558681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just churn at the bottom of the hill < 1356754281 935052 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is bfjoust < 1356754295 65421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust < 1356754303 808923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of surprised you haven't noticed it in the past < 1356754311 469540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the best competitive eso sport ever < 1356754318 910978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(possibly because there aren't many competitive eso sports) < 1356754322 213831 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather < 1356754351 115165 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with competitive ero sport < 1356754359 839370 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's become of corewars < 1356754373 250451 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm impressed with how deeply BF Joust strategy is developed < 1356754405 844383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the current rules have kept on giving < 1356754412 62519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although defence is mostly dead nowadays < 1356754425 215007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shudderlock is my best attempt at that and it's #12 < 1356754464 657293 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT runs an AI competition game every year < 1356754473 499050 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it is not much like corewars though < 1356754479 272713 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.battlecode.org/ < 1356754521 501357 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the artificial life research that grew out of corewars < 1356754608 427602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: how does space_hotel deal with shudderlock, btw? < 1356754615 493112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timer clear? < 1356754639 849118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1356754647 506688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flexible timer clear, by the look of it < 1356754670 294323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm annoyed at that existing, even though I invented it < 1356754794 624067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is space_hotel vulnerable to triplocks? seriously? < 1356754807 850096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but only on small decoys < 1356754847 753539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust small_triplock >>>+++<++([]+++)*-1 < 1356754859 524123 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_small_triplock: 1.8 < 1356754862 146331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's a good compromise < 1356754873 652399 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BF Joust was introduced as a contest within the nomic Agora" < 1356754877 198658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way you're going to be able to do an entire full tape clear in four cycles < 1356754942 420411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably vibratable, actually, but only for a draw not for a win < 1356755647 937945 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-1 produces a notionally infinite program, right? < 1356755707 127956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356755940 497592 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that programs should also be scored on their lengths < 1356755970 360792 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Against which competitors does !bfjoust joust? < 1356756004 462140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a selection of 48 programs through BF Joust history < 1356756035 40858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if considering those 48 programs and your new submitted program, your new program doesn't come last < 1356756040 322610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it pushes the last of those 48 off < 1356756042 242975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on forever < 1356756053 915723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good programs stay for ages because 48 better programs are needed to push them off < 1356756062 882778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even quite bad programs can stay on the hill for a while if they were submitted recently < 1356756067 953134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all that's needed is for them to not be last < 1356756086 27672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can delete programs for the hill if you need to for some reason (most commonly because they're near-duplicates of another) < 1356756198 50785 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust . >[-.]> < 1356756200 572854 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Jafet__: 8.0 < 1356756214 986439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a very good program < 1356756238 439443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moves to the second cell, attempts to zero it (it's already zero), moves to the third cell, then just stops < 1356756257 16873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust the_first_program_ever [>-] < 1356756260 291452 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_the_first_program_ever: 0.0 < 1356756264 849843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what did I get wrong there < 1356756266 343501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1356756271 723485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust the_first_program_ever [>[-]+] < 1356756274 868577 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_the_first_program_ever: 7.0 < 1356756276 177222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the first program ever < 1356756321 390802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1356756327 982176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it… doesn't do too well nowadays < 1356756372 475991 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (>)*9([-]>)*21 < 1356756372 802939 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1356756380 524129 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dumb (>)*9([-]>)*21 < 1356756383 41429 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for kmc_dumb: 18.4 < 1356756444 36121 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide (>)*9[[(-)*128.>]>] < 1356756446 928496 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_suicide: 8.4 < 1356756459 57453 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide < < 1356756462 63382 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_suicide: 0.0 < 1356756465 973433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: your loop structure is a little broken there, isn't it? < 1356756484 56913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust naive_turtle (>)*8(>(-)*128)*21 < 1356756487 90095 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_naive_turtle: 1.4 < 1356756493 835990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1356756495 539485 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide (>)*9([(-)*128.>]>)*21 < 1356756495 975186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust naive_turtle (>)*8(>(-)*128.)*21 < 1356756498 587348 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_suicide: 19.6 < 1356756499 83694 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_naive_turtle: 3.9 < 1356756509 565032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be at least non-naive enough not to fall off the tape if all works well < 1356756525 638545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suicide's actually good enough to just make the hill < 1356756531 570125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in at #48 :) < 1356756540 218893 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t < 1356756552 691301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it'll survive there long :) < 1356756557 152654 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test . < 1356756559 565588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterfall2 got pushed off < 1356756559 748996 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Jafet_test: 8.0 < 1356756570 913076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: that program consistently scores like 8, and has done for ages < 1356756582 55621 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is score calculated? < 1356756587 428171 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i'm off now too < 1356756599 827294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: basically, you get more points for beating better programs < 1356756605 762212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, more score < 1356756609 36953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't lose score for losing < 1356756619 512164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this leads to a circular dependency between scores, but it just solves the equations < 1356756649 730441 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So every program is rescored each time a new program gets to the hill < 1356756676 994159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356756685 161349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :new programs entering at the bottom can shuffle the order on the hill < 1356756692 729027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when waterfall3 was added and beat every existing program < 1356756702 318087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone managed to screw up the hill by submitting 47 copies of it < 1356756705 523529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we had to restore from backups < 1356756721 344780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, they went to just one copy, then I tweaked it to beat the old version of itself too :) < 1356756816 816305 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust test (+)*100000 < 1356756820 432866 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Jafet_test: 13.7 < 1356756830 378041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: that program is submitted frequently < 1356756840 564095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust this_test_worked_better (+--)*-1 < 1356756844 583413 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_this_test_worked_better: 17.0 < 1356756847 332684 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised < 1356756871 924358 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the programs on the hill detect it < 1356756886 968136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with shudders like that is that they're very easy to add in protection against < 1356756892 72925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without compromising your main strategy at all < 1356756924 41523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like [-][+[+.++]] is only one cycle than [-] if the opponent isn't actively defending < 1356756930 287531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*only one cycle slower < 1356756941 435955 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :entering [ with *p==0 moves to after companion ]? < 1356756954 492890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1356756958 525663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the [ costs a cycle < 1356756962 185853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the matching ] doesn't < 1356757008 825643 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the idea of +-- to cross zero more often, so that the opponent will be tricked into falling off the end? < 1356757041 42944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't know, I wasn't involved in the early days of shudder < 1356757045 900325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always preferred vibration < 1356757061 73189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >(+)*128<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356757065 241976 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 29.9 < 1356757087 93129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, it's at #18 :) < 1356757090 293391 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the decoy? < 1356757099 537956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't set the flag to 0 in time without it < 1356757115 325276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea's that most programs move straight on if they see a 0 on a cell < 1356757120 40450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can trick them off the end of the tape < 1356757124 595479 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1356757126 835611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>>(+)*128<<<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356757129 836617 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 30.0 < 1356757200 684269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: also re patience: it's generally considered polite to submit programs in-channel so that people can discuss them, all the programs are public knowledge anyway < 1356757218 738798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because you're blowing away useful breakdown results < 1356757221 161237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>>(+)*128<<<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356757225 282080 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 30.0 < 1356757230 790047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1356757253 634148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is this beating all these top programs? < 1356757261 660310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ffspg loses to vibration, of all things! < 1356757273 481997 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume bfjoust is anything but transitive < 1356757284 688108 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, sorry < 1356757291 662091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: definitely, it'd be no fun if it were < 1356757293 565342 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't want to clutter it in here with beginner experiments < 1356757327 525435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: if you want a private place for experiments, there's http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ < 1356757332 662260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an online BF Joust debugger < 1356757337 105385 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: All the femdom girls have weird failure cases. < 1356757344 298572 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thanks < 1356757366 489312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm more amused at all the ways I've discovered to beat it since it utterly dominated the hill < 1356757371 245975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only I'd found them at the time :) < 1356757378 346684 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh < 1356757403 248995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >(+)*128<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356757403 966317 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but why is the hill ranked then < 1356757407 178714 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 28.3 < 1356757412 807322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>>(+)*128<<<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356757416 810151 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 30.0 < 1356757421 863979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it measures how you do against a wide selection of programs < 1356757434 880743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there are good old programs, and hot new newcomers < 1356757442 889968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and defensive programs and slow rushes and fast rushes < 1356757446 434031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a nice cross-section < 1356757452 89488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if a strategy starts dominating, you can pick on it < 1356757454 45210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see: stealth) < 1356757489 275036 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust mimic (>(+)*128)*5(<)*5(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356757493 235496 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_mimic: 14.8 < 1356757528 276749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: interesting < 1356757544 993254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reading the article on reverse decoy setup on the wiki for an explanation as to why that typically doesn't work < 1356757548 319989 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Yeah, the hill is a very living entity. There's not even such a concept as a truly "best" program. < 1356757590 616516 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...there's a BF Joust wiki? < 1356757623 778335 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, there's a website called programminggames.org < 1356757628 355770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the strategies page on esolangs < 1356757637 7442 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies < 1356757718 744904 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust mimic (>)*9(+)*128(<)*9(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356757722 708539 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_mimic: 15.9 < 1356757744 210539 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tclrobots.org/sample-robots/ < 1356757745 41518 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i called it mimic because i'm just copying vibration < 1356757752 828654 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be reminded of how beautiful Tcl is < 1356757775 473177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: this sort of experimentation is fine, it's how everyone got started < 1356757784 621720 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcl is beautiful in the sense that it isn't < 1356757810 324464 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and truly, isn't that the greatest beauty of all < 1356757819 732620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: as an elaboration on what Gregor is saying, something like space_hotel is top of the hill for good reason, but under a metric like "is good at defeating the top programs on the hill", something like stealth does better < 1356757832 556312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, space_hotel beats everything, or used to at least < 1356757834 239482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's similar < 1356757859 192221 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl's rather elegant, just needs a different standard library < 1356757876 853036 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356757892 709488 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tetris_slowrush >++++++>(+)*15>(-)*40(>[>>>>(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*25]------>[>>>>(>(-)*40[+][-][+])*25](+)*15> [>>>>(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*25](-)*40>[>>>>(>(-)*40[+][-][+])*25]------>[>>>>(>(+)*40[-][+][-])*25](+)*15> [>>>>(>(-)*40[+][-][+])*25](+)*40)*26 < 1356757895 645428 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_tetris_slowrush: 18.4 < 1356757901 582245 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-102.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1356757916 318732 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356757918 962574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: huh < 1356757923 551033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's using the collision strategy, right? < 1356757931 597293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with 4s not 2s? < 1356757942 793445 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1356757950 686234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1356757952 519088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a basic slowrush that skips some decoys < 1356757961 988563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I meant the >>>> in the loop < 1356757969 596200 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not in the loop < 1356757973 920948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1356757975 494587 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just happens once < 1356757995 388309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should revisit collision some time, really < 1356758029 888660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this age of everything building loads of decoys, it would make fast rushes faster without really hurting them at all < 1356758041 2862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fast rush is a bit underrepresented atm < 1356758088 274384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, I have a request to make < 1356758102 96169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you submit an edited version of space_elevator that doesn't use parens in comments, please? < 1356758113 44997 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-28-244.dlth.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356758120 909704 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1356758122 627158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cranklance seems not to care, but juiced bitches at it (probably correctly) < 1356758130 276956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sees ( and ), which are valid commands < 1356758135 995980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no %n or *n after it < 1356758136 258204 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is juiced < 1356758143 123346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my personal BF Joust interp that I use for testing < 1356758175 870567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, ( and ) aren't actually comments in BF Joust < 1356758194 762723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could just change juiced to be more bug-compatible with cranklance < 1356758195 767062 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356758198 301711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't like doing that < 1356758205 731769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bitched enough about the whitespace between * and number thing < 1356758223 256319 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's only the one set of parens in space_elevator that isnt code < 1356758228 998440 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can dyke it out yourself < 1356758231 299846 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1356758277 306519 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just add a line to juiced that globally replaces ) not followed by * with )*0 and saves it < 1356758284 3747 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you arent touching your core code < 1356758286 896894 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tinkle >[]<(+)*-1 < 1356758292 933378 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_tinkle: 13.7 < 1356758297 230917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: if you're trying to tripwire < 1356758301 925627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :set the cell to something nonzero < 1356758308 684027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your loop will just end immediately < 1356758316 332419 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me? < 1356758319 791611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1356758321 306218 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the playing field not randomized? < 1356758326 774534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's all zeros < 1356758328 271545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to start with < 1356758328 666761 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1356758330 174064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the flags < 1356758333 342845 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a big difference, hehe < 1356758335 40505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ys < 1356758337 415294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1356758340 569485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at the core of decoy setting < 1356758351 815363 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tinkle >-[]<(+)*-1 < 1356758352 2419 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but thats an interesting idea :P < 1356758355 808734 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_tinkle: 9.6 < 1356758357 354627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no it isn't < 1356758367 247333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a race of "who writes the best tuned reverse offset clear" < 1356758379 851378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on offense < 1356758395 711807 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a quick response < 1356758403 58039 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered it previously < 1356758410 386428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'd take way too long to clear your own decoys to be able to set them to appropriate values < 1356758418 224069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, just the implications are reasonably clear < 1356758425 846932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically "both programs have infinite free decoys" < 1356758436 795946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"at random values" < 1356758453 136915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, there's no incentive to use any sort of clear loop but turtle and reverse offset < 1356758459 946641 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a general note, the history section on the wiki lacks any actual dates < 1356758462 177013 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the playing field was a bilaterally symmetrical distribution selected from {-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3}? < 1356758463 301488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the matching defensive programs < 1356758471 922892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: hmm, interesting < 1356758475 818582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could try to determine them, I guess < 1356758483 997155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, that's more interesting than purely random < 1356758494 199332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't be too dissimilar to what we have atm, except that fast pokes wouldn't exist < 1356758497 829346 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least an approximate year would be good to know < 1356758499 321741 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i never go the ovcious route < 1356758502 909322 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1356758503 635361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reverse tripwire setting would take a little longer < 1356758526 463287 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would have a new strategy < 1356758542 976126 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At the beginning of a battle, every cell is set to zero" whoops < 1356758573 272429 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-142-60-139.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1356758581 228529 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where you implement a palindrome detector that guesses when its in the "backwards" half of the palindrome and then jumps right the other flag < 1356758610 753643 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is foiled by the other player putting decoys in random places etc < 1356758618 97450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, yeah < 1356758790 949310 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust geddy_lee (>)*9(((+)*3[-].>)>)*21 < 1356758794 59154 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_geddy_lee: 0.0 < 1356758817 267559 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, as good as the original suicide < < 1356758833 92095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for obvious problems < 1356758837 699504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you have unmatched parens < 1356758839 190161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least < 1356758843 787359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a () without a * or % afterwards < 1356758857 32078 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1356758859 145034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like cranklance interprets that as commenting out everything in between < 1356758862 748741 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust geddy_lee (>)*9((+)*3[-].>)*21 < 1356758865 701535 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_geddy_lee: 9.6 < 1356758944 187670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (-)*-1 < 1356758944 410433 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1356758951 308331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hi (-)*-1 < 1356758954 889030 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for shachaf_hi: 13.6 < 1356758986 348338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's just a polarity inverted always-increment program < 1356758990 88205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so will have the same score < 1356759004 412694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best name I ever saw for that program was "you_spin_me_right_round", I forget who came up with it < 1356759014 536452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ho (+)*-1 < 1356759018 24045 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for shachaf_ho: 13.6 < 1356759024 573422 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust 'lo (+-)*-1 < 1356759028 183016 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Jafet__lo: 10.1 < 1356759036 607551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should read the rules. < 1356759037 922809 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a parity thing < 1356759075 705883 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust __ (+-+-+-+)*-1 < 1356759079 524917 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Jafet___: 12.7 < 1356759112 808043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>>(+)*128<<<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356759116 684242 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 30.0 < 1356759119 355032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try without the decoy < 1356759123 763920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration (+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356759126 869804 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 28.0 < 1356759131 488164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1356759135 76801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hi ([+])*-1 < 1356759138 745991 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for shachaf_hi: 11.7 < 1356759141 588396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>>>(+)*128<<<<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356759145 537940 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 21.1 < 1356759149 689026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>(+)*128<<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356759152 897087 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 30.0 < 1356759170 280296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using no decoy would beat leviathan < 1356759178 101690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is less good against various other programs < 1356759207 28721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>(+)*128<<.(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356759211 47582 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 17.8 < 1356759217 441620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, look at that parity dependence :) < 1356759221 597938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibration >>(+)*128<<(+)*128(+-)*-1 < 1356759224 548729 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_vibration: 30.0 < 1356759244 863834 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust communism (>(+)*128.)*-1 < 1356759247 577601 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for Jafet_communism: 8.4 < 1356759271 322588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: a turtle < 1356759277 898446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those did really well back when they were invented < 1356759284 852970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people started taking countermeasures against them < 1356759290 919131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now they're sprinkled throughout the hill < 1356759354 401905 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quixote (>)*9[>+] < 1356759357 511443 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_quixote: 7.0 < 1356759372 323509 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha expected much worse < 1356759375 878100 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone tried genetic programming for bfjoust < 1356759382 507044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's likely to jam unless it hits an enemy decoy < 1356759383 996897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yes < 1356759391 436756 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it didn't work then < 1356759396 768073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evo1 fell off the hill eventually < 1356759407 855595 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-74-3.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1356759408 654807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was produced by evolving some of the example programs from the wiki, IIRC < 1356759424 898058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that a good complex clear loop can't really be generated by evolving at a low level < 1356759433 127761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without way too many tests < 1356759459 691672 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, evolving at the instruction level isn't going to work < 1356759518 739006 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356759638 546944 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at space_hotel now... my. < 1356759658 116414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, there's some sort of pattern < 1356759662 616699 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356759675 41634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one more complex than can be encoded with ()* and ({})% < 1356759723 444630 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they are brainfuck programs < 1356759729 719263 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what do you expect" < 1356759792 260522 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to our one-liners < 1356759802 835817 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6700 lines of generated bf code < 1356759812 371980 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks goooood < 1356759913 256055 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++++++++++>+++++++++++<<<<<-]><+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>+.>++.<++.>>>+++++++.--.+.<<<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1356760097 947972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can often do pretty well just with one-liners < 1356760105 742166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :triplock3 was a one-liner, and did great when it first came out < 1356760113 849375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically because nobody had invented the countermeasure yet < 1356760125 265408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays everyone protects their code from triplocking < 1356760135 534238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as such, triplocking fell off the hill altogether < 1356760143 812129 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many people are involved with this < 1356760173 687143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust? < 1356760183 435263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see for yourself: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/report.txt < 1356760214 186980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :submitting username is listed on the hill < 1356760228 96429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both for namespacing to avoid clashes, and so we know who to talk to about it < 1356760597 462174 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: space_hotel is not generated. its all hand-coded with help of copy/paste < 1356760608 172541 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hott < 1356760646 918909 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's impressive < 1356760684 570395 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at gregor's stuff for examples of generated programs < 1356760696 556175 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :has someone made a bf programming language with a preprocessor to automate copypasting and the like? < 1356760708 424756 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started to < 1356760711 538133 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust fools_odds (>)*15[-]. < 1356760711 722912 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1356760713 553286 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy < 1356760714 418153 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for etb_fools_odds: 3.8 < 1356760738 142788 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: there are some with procedures and stuff. < 1356760749 719850 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Isn't that what the bfjoust thing does? < 1356760765 546827 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, i was assuming the numbers were some kind of rep count. < 1356760776 877606 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. run-length encoding. i already asked this. < 1356760787 543181 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems to be missing the point of brainfuck < 1356760795 502069 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-28-244.dlth.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356760805 956859 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shortest possible compiler? < 1356760808 532676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ([+++>(+-)*8]>(-+)*8[+>])*8 < 1356760808 717203 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1356760811 927709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hi ([+++>(+-)*8]>(-+)*8[+>])*8 < 1356760814 308917 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for shachaf_hi: 2.8 < 1356760817 6595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1356760825 677448 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can bf jump to subroutine? < 1356760830 357963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust long_tapes (>)*15(>(-)*120(-.)*16)*14 < 1356760832 417886 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wizard magic. < 1356760833 457314 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_long_tapes: 2.7 < 1356760839 320809 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1356760852 745472 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but the joust thing obviously isn't flexible enough to avoid heavy copypasting in the creation of, like, space hotel, right? < 1356760863 898157 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's just RLE < 1356760864 172131 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust long_tapes (>++)*14(>(-)*120(-.)*16)*14 < 1356760867 138017 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_long_tapes: 2.1 < 1356760873 331339 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously what is needed is a system that uses brainfuck to generate brainfuck < 1356760885 92780 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then jousts the resulting brainfuck < 1356760887 351560 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!! < 1356760910 412640 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :! ! ! ! ! ! ! < 1356760910 634664 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1356760911 462317 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe jousts the generating brainfuck, too < 1356760919 802283 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust long_tapes >(+)*15(>)*14(>[(-)*120(-.)*16])*14 < 1356760920 646719 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about it jousts them until it converges < 1356760922 823283 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_long_tapes: 7.3 < 1356760929 377575 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooo < 1356760951 55492 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO Brainfuck 2013... < 1356760974 936126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (+>)*-1 < 1356760975 120742 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1356760977 557949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hi (+>)*-1 < 1356760980 181105 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for shachaf_hi: 0.0 < 1356760985 150700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust hi (+>-<)*-1 < 1356760987 721152 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for shachaf_hi: 10.1 < 1356760993 344575 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: do you mean until their scores don't change? < 1356761004 233133 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something? I don't know < 1356761033 446124 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :rephrase < 1356761068 60268 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, it's impossible, right? you can't carry a cell in tow to count how far to move the pointer < 1356761076 500300 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn bf, so limiting . . . :P < 1356761094 299270 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats impossible? < 1356761101 177 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck jump to subroutine < 1356761112 455288 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a subroutine < 1356761116 396450 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a macro language that does it though < 1356761123 477540 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :by copying the relevant code in < 1356761133 792703 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1356761134 851517 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the call would be < 1356761147 569456 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all subroutines are inlined < 1356761151 928231 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps bfjoust should have macros < 1356761164 690917 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to already < 1356761199 529714 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can call this * and % business macros < 1356761200 398722 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should not be allowed to be recursive, though, so the interpreter should topologically sort the program beforehand < 1356761229 241037 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps bfjoust should have many things, but there is no consensus that a particular extension should be added. people pretty much like it as it is. < 1356761316 459171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I actually use non-recursive macros for generating programs for submission sometimes < 1356761336 745089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealth was made like that, together with reindenting the output using emacs brainfuck-joust-mode < 1356761345 739361 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like cyberpunk blindfolded chess played against every dead master in succession < 1356761357 37480 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it. good idea, guys. < 1356761358 648007 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck-joust-mode < 1356761382 712164 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you. made an emacs mode? < 1356761383 856644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, it isn't part of the emacs standard distribution < 1356761385 351292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet, at least < 1356761390 448349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I already had brainfuck-mode lying around < 1356761393 127302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wasn't much modification < 1356761464 186358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if only I could come up with a way to do anticipation that doesn't require omitting cases that aren't actually used just to be able to stay on the hill < 1356761491 619202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etb: % and * are nice because although they notionally expand to BF, so you aren't adding anything to the language at all < 1356761506 89149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern interps can process them way faster than they could process the equivalent expanded code < 1356761510 902984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get your results from the hill in faster < 1356761532 614320 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you yet established a journal for brainfuck optimization strategies < 1356761577 100549 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it JITed yet? < 1356761584 360375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: no < 1356761586 974765 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1356761597 932248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two-competing-programs aspect makes JITting it a little awkward < 1356761600 655095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not impossible < 1356761604 651036 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1356761617 681566 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually here's an idea < 1356761623 157835 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of using chars lke '>' < 1356761626 133199 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use machine instructions < 1356761628 405604 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a language that consists of two programs running in parallel < 1356761631 926668 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like '>' is actually an 'inc' < 1356761632 179798 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's corewars < 1356761643 738193 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: so... compile it? < 1356761655 524407 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah, but like, let's say one program overwrites the other program or whatever < 1356761663 983365 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of outputting a '>', it also outputs an inc < 1356761664 677137 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1356761667 531704 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this different from corewars < 1356761680 21517 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have checked exactly how it worked first <_> < 1356761751 161840 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking questions and reading is the devil, fiora. < 1356761757 340485 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so how does bfjoust work < 1356761766 802017 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an article on it on esolang. < 1356761782 135062 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1356761798 167177 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1356761825 479443 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from glancing it looks like they're not in the data, so not so much like corewars < 1356761842 707063 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is cool < 1356761852 224736 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an idea to allow two programs executed simultaneously with a JIT < 1356761872 464358 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile the two programs, interleave them, and create N copies, one for each possible combination of addresses in the two programs < 1356761892 371323 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then create a state machine < 1356761900 232126 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, if one program has a jump but the other doesn't, you transition to the appropriate new program < 1356761912 87985 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that work? < 1356761974 848134 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh huh. > and < move to and from the opponent, not specific directions < 1356762010 395081 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust programs can have thousands of instructions < 1356762029 22628 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be kinda instruction cache murdernig I guess < 1356762044 927175 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(N^2) <_<; < 1356762121 872025 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1356762210 113991 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1356762235 13411 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i could add an eso lang to esolangs under jokes > brainfuck derivatives? < 1356762263 815871 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think making a brainfuck derivative makes you immediately eligible for death by sky burial. < 1356762347 29094 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is eligible for death by sky burial. < 1356762370 839485 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably numerous people here are up for one then < 1356762376 365222 :etb!~flood0r2@173.255.247.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the Bin Laden" < 1356762440 474177 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help but wonder if BF Joust counts as a BF derivative... < 1356762476 558057 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worms, the lot of you. Die. < 1356762501 780130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worms! Oh my god worms! < 1356762588 711814 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are worms, we're the best, and we've come to win the war. < 1356762605 386438 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-102.elisa.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356762609 17153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :heegan < 1356762829 72030 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck derivative: a language that records the change over time in a brainfuck program < 1356762842 417492 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1356762848 928288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it be the type of one-hole contexts? < 1356762851 322978 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: c.c < 1356762881 102156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :c·c < 1356762905 259101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :c˙c? < 1356762914 450120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ĉ…č < 1356762929 776792 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: there's reversible brainfuck. < 1356763271 660797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the way holes in types correspond to the various simple derivative rules (D(f+g) = D(f)+D(g), D(f*g)=f*D(g)+g*D(f)) is actually pretty obvious if you think about it. < 1356763284 26722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The corresponding rules for "normal" derivatives don't seem so obvious. < 1356763324 747717 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a hole in a type? < 1356763372 594094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: For example, if you have a type Foo a = (a,a,a), then a Foo with a hole in it would involve replacing one of the "a"s with a "hole". < 1356763384 324423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you might get (_,a,a) or (a,_,a) or (a,a,_) < 1356763429 780202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "(a,a,a) with one hole" corresponds to data WhichOne = First | Second | Third; (WhichOne,a,a) < 1356763463 16946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether there's a way to carry the intuition back to "normal" derivatives. < 1356763493 207664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember how much Haskell Bike knows. < 1356763499 716205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: (Also you should /nick bicycle.) < 1356763502 518220 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh, so it's the pattern matching thin < 1356763503 538635 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1356763509 103044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pattern matching? < 1356763514 573853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that _ is misleading. < 1356763522 54130 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1356763526 372372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not pattern matching. < 1356763529 730233 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually remember _ being used for pattern matching < 1356763532 25492 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, then what is it? < 1356763559 386622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you had a dynamically typed language, and a tuple. < 1356763563 782099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example (5,10,20) < 1356763576 894743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could replace one of the numbers with a "hole" value. < 1356763585 272511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are three numbers you could pick. < 1356763588 661104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1356763591 202997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three positions, that is. < 1356763605 727795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you might say (Hole,10,20) or (5,Hole,20) or (5,10,Hole) < 1356763631 758957 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356763646 398351 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-28-244.dlth.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1356763655 949752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that part make sense? < 1356763661 746429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(These are values now, not types.) < 1356763669 476590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sometimes the Haskell type/value punning is a bit unfortunate.) < 1356763715 843752 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wouldn't that change the type? < 1356763735 5439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but ignoring the type, does the idea of a "hole" make sense? < 1356763745 168653 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As just a distinguished thingamajig? < 1356763747 497845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a thing with a hole in it, you could find the hole and put something in it, and so on. < 1356763797 588783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one position that would normally have a value but now has a hole instead, as a sort of placeholder. < 1356763908 842062 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I call a lambda a hole, or can I do things with holes that I can't with functions? < 1356763937 405210 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, the (5, _, 10) hole, can I call that \h -> (5, h, 10), or is it possible to look at the first and third without feeding an argument? < 1356763973 725947 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses the latter < 1356763985 331085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really the same thing. < 1356763998 273511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closer to the latter, yes. < 1356764066 482204 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fst . ($ undefined) < 1356764067 706054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> (b, b1)) -> b < 1356764121 739748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant! < 1356764217 46177 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ask how it could possibly return a b when given just a function and no a, but then I saw the undefined again < 1356764227 531294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined is cheaty < 1356764242 150514 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i'm doing the "derailing explanation with confusing lambdabot output" thing < 1356764260 745036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype T = T (T -> T) -- "pretty cool type" < 1356764274 597750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think the explainees have lost interest or something. < 1356764295 350831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway this isn't #haskell. < 1356764297 217832 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of discouraging to see "well, that's sort of like a hole, except not" < 1356764316 967919 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but this derivatives thing is so cool! < 1356764330 48760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's exactly like a hole. :-) The trouble is communicating exactly what a hole means. < 1356764338 960713 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you need to approach it from navigation / zippers rather than just holes < 1356764341 993277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I'd start with an analogy and proceed with feedback. < 1356764351 615543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. < 1356764371 768088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think explaining zippers is more complicated than explaining holes, though. < 1356764407 994140 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it makes me think I'm probably better off understanding derivatives as operators etc < 1356764433 784330 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have a type (Functor F) => F A, is a hole effectively a F (Maybe A)? < 1356764451 502901 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, allows for too many holes < 1356764469 42765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The trick is that you want there to be exactly one hole. < 1356764473 97280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I haven't gotten to that yet. < 1356764503 340819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: If the things I say are confusing it probably means I'm doing a bad job. Only you can help me get better! < 1356764546 631014 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair. < 1356764613 496528 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't know what this hole thing is. sgeo's earlier try makes me think a tuple (Hole,4) would be like an object that can take a "left" message (which returns... Undefined?), a "right" message (4), and a fill_left_hole message so that later left messages bla bla i haven't even used smalltalk what is wrong with me < 1356764642 312330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's simpler to think of data than of objects. < 1356764663 518145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe a smaller types is better. < 1356764679 264232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you have (10,20). That's a pair of two integers. So far does that make sense? < 1356764690 332342 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1356764724 374163 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's say we want to poke a "hole" in it. You're not really expected to know precisely what a "hole" is yet; that's why I'm giving examples. < 1356764740 455482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here are the two options we have: (,20) and (10,) < 1356764790 73409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When we look at that thing, we get two pieces of information: The integer that *isn't* the hole, and the position of the hole. < 1356764801 414052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is this where it stops making sense?) < 1356764838 349333 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I get that much I think. < 1356764880 185760 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So about the pair (Hole,20) we can know "it has a hole, at position 0" and "20" (no position? no length of the tuple?) < 1356764913 130067 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, the length of a tuple is part of the type < 1356764913 478581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the hole (let's say there's only ever one hole) at position 0, and 20 at position 1. < 1356764918 21900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tuple is always of length 2. < 1356764921 265991 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1356764954 927534 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could derive (no pun intended) the position of the 20 from the position of the hole < 1356764991 854999 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...above statement not applicable to >2-tuples, so ignore me < 1356764995 232466 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make as few assumptions as I can. < 1356765001 403066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: So let's say we wanted a type that captured exactly "a pair of two integers where one of them has been replaced with a hole". < 1356765017 264906 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. Such a type would include both (Hole,20) and (10,Hole), yes? < 1356765022 298565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1356765029 968876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we know that the information we have is (a) an integer, and (b) where the hole is. < 1356765048 391172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We also know where the integer is, but that's kind of implied, since there are only two possible positions.) < 1356765086 683335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense? < 1356765103 203237 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1356765125 5097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can define a type: data Where'sTheHole = FirstPosition | SecondPosition < 1356765149 537012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now we can say that IntegerWithHole = (Where'sTheHole, Integer) < 1356765170 227499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stores the exact information, right? < 1356765182 921234 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so the type tuple is just a representation, it's got nothing to do with the data tuple position-wise or anything. < 1356765217 825845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure what you mean, but it sounds right. :-) < 1356765229 612140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1356765264 799310 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, one tree is isomorphic to seven < 1356765266 917769 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, yes. The IntegerWithHole is just two pieces of information together < 1356765277 978349 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But six are not isomorphic to none < 1356765282 17318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So our Where'sTheHole type is equivalent to a boolean. < 1356765288 134667 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmhm. < 1356765309 916486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you would need more data for larger tuples I guess, hmm. < 1356765323 296365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :seven isomorphic trees in a single 24-hour rotation < 1356765335 273310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: OK, so now let's say we had a bigger tuple: < 1356765342 974735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, before that. < 1356765352 227359 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably an n-tuple with one hole could just use a mod-n integer, sgeo. < 1356765372 581637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1356765380 970348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so now let's say we had Either < 1356765387 216849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how Either works? < 1356765388 437541 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The so-called scientific authorities babble that 24 is not divisible by 7. They want to eat your children. < 1356765401 606644 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably I do, yes. < 1356765408 688676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think Jafet should finish this explanation. < 1356765475 964681 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already supplied the logical conclusion < 1356765936 323454 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356765972 856210 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356766956 170946 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1356766996 497966 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1356767735 28979 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a sim game where you fly the giant stone head from Zardoz < 1356767900 912059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com TOPIC #esoteric :Beyond 1984, beyond 2001, beyond love, beyond death | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1356769433 818076 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1356770028 877581 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1356770596 259519 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356771700 865544 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356774612 862624 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356777194 308888 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1356777200 117155 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1356777696 558458 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1356778474 580403 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356780472 851724 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.28.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356780542 836623 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.28.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356780756 876589 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.28.152 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356782418 545882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1356783013 952185 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1356783412 854150 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.28.152 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356785391 582331 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1356787524 989688 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356787842 546194 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356787903 718848 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1356788283 431931 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356789545 836074 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.28.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356789963 378431 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356790683 348163 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356792169 492532 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356792846 871366 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356793716 470818 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1356793835 928278 :atslash!~cherep@broadband-46-188-0-82.2kom.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1356793842 581115 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1356795690 282156 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-29-239.dlth.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356796730 522429 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356797005 994813 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356797189 570142 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-29-239.dlth.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1356797655 886723 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356798681 673558 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1356800013 619790 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, by far. was my most successful game of Brogue < 1356800159 130075 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Changing host < 1356800159 314963 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1356800322 936406 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356800341 808353 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356800341 993042 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356800508 404665 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356800512 524032 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes) < 1356801938 881118 :atslash!~cherep@broadband-46-188-0-82.2kom.ru QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1356803003 450406 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356803621 655908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1356803705 841327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Beyond 1984, beyond 2001, beyond 2525, beyond love, beyond death | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1356803766 533694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find it somewhat disturbing that shachaf keeps hallucinating me < 1356803786 839080 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1356803803 560894 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1356803807 471319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: he keeps greeting me when i'm not here < 1356803819 861404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hi shachaf < 1356803829 357322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hi Taneb < 1356803832 313832 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1356803838 241724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1356803857 911778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ARE YOU SURE I'M REALLY HERE < 1356803868 9303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1356803896 882963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Proxy transformers are ugly :( < 1356803908 519974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proxy transformers? < 1356803913 108558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from pipes < 1356803980 616222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume tekmo has some technical reason not to use the ordinary transformers, but eww < 1356804007 850958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also StateP should _not_ split the state across >->, eww) < 1356804043 610643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name Proxy is taken. < 1356804048 82129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry tekmo < 1356804067 310809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is and it has been discussed on reddit. but that's not my main point anyway. < 1356804126 358782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i _do_ like the runIdentityP trick for getting shorter contexts, but that function needs a shorter name < 1356804268 876239 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356804660 946952 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356805219 881047 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356806281 303663 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356806287 28879 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356806298 543594 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1356806687 991035 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, you are at aalto.fi, right? < 1356806694 654594 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized http://tsunami-udp.sourceforge.net/ is from there < 1356806726 832833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1356806738 70475 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend at the Metsähovi place too. < 1356806869 798418 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1356807075 374049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing his master's thesis, the topic of which I keep forgetting. (I've forgotten it again.) < 1356807387 764463 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356807530 605132 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Changing host < 1356807530 830911 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1356807839 765018 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356807840 106475 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356807840 291597 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356808082 16488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : you. made an emacs mode? < 1356808096 583545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ais523.*easier < 1356808102 505033 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :270) elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet < 1356808111 312176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1356808115 47173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote ais523.*wiki < 1356808116 870926 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :233) OK, I give up, logging into Wikia is harder than writing a Firefox extension < 1356808136 839830 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356808137 403879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 does strange things < 1356808155 49727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1356808156 412220 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :836) `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 has joined #esoteric thank you You're welcome. < 1356808166 312912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :836++ < 1356808172 577371 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 837 < 1356808172 858649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :now 837?? < 1356808174 398544 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :837) seriously q is the best fucking letter in the alphabet < 1356808183 72876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :837-- < 1356808185 412788 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, even. < 1356808188 155332 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 836 < 1356808189 761230 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :836) `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 has joined #esoteric thank you You're welcome. < 1356808199 125264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma 837 < 1356808199 310248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :837 has a karma of -1 < 1356808208 657839 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma 836 < 1356808208 843755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :836 has a karma of 1 < 1356808250 958865 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356808268 295690 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma shachaf < 1356808268 481520 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf has a karma of 52 < 1356808275 720837 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Changing host < 1356808275 905258 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1356808284 204848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I got all that karma. < 1356808287 772811 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf has a full deck < 1356808290 59781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone write a script or something? < 1356808299 801355 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma-all < 1356808300 23648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "nobody" 2000 < 1356808300 243361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "C/C" 359 < 1356808300 428318 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "(" 145 < 1356808300 428484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "+" 106 < 1356808300 428593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "g" 103 < 1356808301 397474 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf shall be reincarnated as king < 1356808302 26283 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1830 @more lines] < 1356808304 91765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@more < 1356808304 277444 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "shachaf" 52 < 1356808306 27495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "dmwit" 39 < 1356808308 47082 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "libc" 36 < 1356808312 31916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "##c" 35 < 1356808316 35007 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "elliott" 34 < 1356808322 39040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `more' failed with: thread killed < 1356808322 406296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? There's no way I should be at 52. < 1356808337 630822 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf-- < 1356808342 512638 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot++ < 1356808345 581114 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ (@karma- shachaf) < 1356808345 765687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can't change your own karma, silly. < 1356808367 10814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1356808367 195094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's karma lowered to 50. < 1356808369 534166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1356808369 718813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's karma lowered to 49. < 1356808369 961907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1356808370 147474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's karma lowered to 48. < 1356808370 331760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1356808370 516650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1356808370 516855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's karma lowered to 47. < 1356808370 701470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's karma lowered to 46. < 1356808370 885558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1356808371 69781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's karma lowered to 45. < 1356808384 592774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((shachaf-- )S:^):^ *MWAHAHAHAHA* < 1356808385 51004 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shachaf-- shac ...too much output! < 1356808389 111923 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1356808389 296952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma shachaf < 1356808389 481734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner's karma lowered to 13. < 1356808389 481934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf has a karma of 13 < 1356808389 666013 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1356808395 122469 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma- java < 1356808395 307203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :java's karma lowered to -1. < 1356808406 309409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That was excessive. :-( < 1356808413 646504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((shachaf++ )S:^):^ *MWAHAHAHAHA* < 1356808414 161303 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shac ...too much output! < 1356808418 207347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1356808426 592178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too, was excessive. < 1356808441 324546 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma shachaf < 1356808441 547448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf has a karma of 45 < 1356808448 743696 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((shachaf++ )S:^):^ < 1356808449 406170 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shachaf++ shac ...too much output! < 1356808453 926732 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma shachaf < 1356808454 111273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf has a karma of 78 < 1356808457 303742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti......... < 1356808512 662902 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf......... < 1356808521 134394 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((shachaf++ shachaf--)S:^):^ < 1356808521 659808 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--shachaf++ shachaf--s ...too much output! < 1356808531 587455 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma shachaf < 1356808531 860463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf has a karma of 79 < 1356808532 665862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma shachaf--shachaf < 1356808532 850637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf--shachaf has a karma of 16 < 1356808542 357518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1356808542 831532 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woops < 1356808547 507586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (concat $ replicate 100 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808547 691708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (concat $ replicate 100 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808554 157512 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that I shall leave forever < 1356808554 947296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run concat $ replicate 100 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808556 496625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "(@karma+ nortti) (@karma+ nortti) (@karma+ nortti) (@karma+ nortti) (@karm... < 1356808565 357206 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: leaving forever < 1356808565 812974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@read (@run concat $ replicate 100 "(@karma+ nortti) ")) < 1356808567 352336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse < 1356808572 213399 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ @read (@run concat $ replicate 100 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808573 663846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse < 1356808575 730036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten how to do it. < 1356808600 763298 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. < 1356808608 988472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ (@run concat $ replicate 5 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808610 457105 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "(@karma+ nortti) (@karma+ nortti) (@karma+ nortti) (@karma+ nortti) (@karm... < 1356808616 718251 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1356808621 668138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ @read (@run concat $ replicate 5 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808623 219675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse < 1356808636 113714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ @read (@run concat $ replicate 1 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808637 600081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : nortti's karma raised to 2. < 1356808642 470808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ @read (@run concat $ replicate 5 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808643 983140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse < 1356808646 781396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ @read (@run concat $ replicate 4 "(@karma+ nortti) ") < 1356808648 341212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : nortti's karma raised to 3. nortti's karma raised to 4. nortti's karma raised to 5. nortti's karma raised to 6. < 1356808649 971991 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356808660 951836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, one time I worked out a way to batch those. < 1356808671 651849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ @read (@run concat $ replicate 4 "(@karma- nortti) ") < 1356808673 195743 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : nortti's karma lowered to 5. nortti's karma lowered to 4. nortti's karma lowered to 3. nortti's karma lowered to 2. < 1356808682 991450 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma nortti < 1356808683 175846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 2 < 1356808689 135089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text $ concat $ replicate 5 "(@karma- nortti) ") < 1356808690 678158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Missing ')' in nested command < 1356808702 183598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder poor lambdabot is overworked < 1356808713 678159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text $ concat $ replicate 5 (chr 64 : "(karma- nortti) ")) < 1356808715 121353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `compose' failed with: Missing ')' in nested command < 1356808721 337654 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text $ concat $ replicate 4 (chr 64 : "(karma- nortti) ")) < 1356808722 827078 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : nortti's karma lowered to -7. nortti's karma lowered to -8. nortti's karma lowered to -9. nortti's karma lowered to -10. < 1356808746 165283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text $ concat $ replicate 4 (chr 64 : "(karma+ nortti) ")) < 1356808747 579611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : nortti's karma raised to -9. nortti's karma raised to -8. nortti's karma raised to -7. nortti's karma raised to -6. < 1356808751 353626 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-29-239.dlth.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356808757 736937 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how it worked. :-( < 1356808762 717812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you remember < 1356808794 781780 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1356808809 563959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text $ concat $ replicate 4 (chr 64 : "(karma+ nortti) ")) < 1356808811 295229 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : nortti's karma raised to -5. nortti's karma raised to -4. nortti's karma raised to -3. nortti's karma raised to -2. < 1356808825 387063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to do things in lambdabot. < 1356808828 261836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti++ nortti++ < 1356808855 392521 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma nortti < 1356808855 576874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 0 < 1356808858 144922 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1356808867 814079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti++ # achieved balance < 1356809886 436239 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356810054 549181 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356810079 697328 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-29-239.dlth.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356810492 860946 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356810558 563503 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356810603 350534 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356810612 124425 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1356810622 622811 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356810699 779262 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356811114 975372 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356811134 769759 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356811265 526962 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356811384 61613 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356811407 758058 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356811600 127694 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Client Quit < 1356811623 614610 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356811674 347407 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1356811693 269803 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356811748 791352 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ < 1356811782 610163 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text "(karma+ lambdabot)") < 1356811784 99247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (karma+ lambdabot) < 1356811799 59211 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text ":(karma+ lambdabot)") < 1356811800 607652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :(karma+ lambdabot) < 1356811837 98588 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ (@run text $ chr 64 : "(karma+ lambdabot)") < 1356811838 652466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lambdabot's karma raised to 26. < 1356812070 614580 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356812097 751817 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356812305 191513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a karmageddon happened here. < 1356812412 302022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Commercial hacker hunters -- who refer to the team as the Comment group, for the hidden program code they use known as “comments”' < 1356812521 900121 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-29-239.dlth.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356812706 672405 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356812756 514465 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356813248 677541 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356813268 613678 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1356813278 533564 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356813401 615748 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1356813673 928117 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1356813912 86087 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Changing host < 1356813912 272163 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1356814171 807308 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356814185 582459 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356814186 8018 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@63.91.27.121 QUIT :Changing host < 1356814186 192779 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1356814228 817759 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1356815423 544468 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1356815432 376637 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356815438 771702 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356815676 936017 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356815876 643968 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1356816242 942090 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1356816259 927346 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'Commercial hacker hunters -- who refer to the team as the Comment group, for the hidden program code they use known as “comments”' < 1356816263 797850 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1356816294 184086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :angkor < 1356816375 851003 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-02/chinas-comment-group-hacks-europe-and-the-world < 1356816404 474432 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356816465 676724 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hack ALL the things < 1356816491 339351 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hacks hacks hackahackack < 1356816515 126716 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make illegal! < 1356816586 132435 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- But this is a comment too, in some languages < 1356816593 927631 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :% As is this < 1356816594 390696 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ and this < 1356816597 649833 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :{- and this -} < 1356816606 870163 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :// And this < 1356816614 563147 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* And this */ < 1356816616 66299 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :REM (and this) < 1356816619 129787 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The aritcle referred to HTML comments specifically. “The collective’s tactic, hacking computers using hidden HTML code known as comments, earned it another name in private security circles: the Comment Group.” < 1356816623 181083 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even this < 1356816632 328468 :Taneb!~nathan@host-2-97-153-98.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ban everything! < 1356816644 764639 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1356816672 204273 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356816691 987768 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this technology and we're still using multipage news articles < 1356816697 79873 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: don't forget Whitespace comments! < 1356816724 45176 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I was thinking brainfuck < 1356816749 359390 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are its comments like? Just non-command characters I suppose < 1356816838 63662 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the actual exploit here, anyway < 1356816982 487370 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :injecting JS via an HTML comment form or something? < 1356817185 386839 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356817191 801041 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356818093 578945 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1356820202 428311 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356820202 612743 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356820202 612909 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356820475 130727 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-81-6.dab.02.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356821124 653324 :ineiros_!~itniemin@li271-145.members.linode.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1356821132 519911 :ineiros!~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1356821861 660436 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@75-163-29-239.dlth.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1356821941 758766 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blargh < 1356821965 461312 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A group I'm part of in Second Life is running a charity drive, but I don't know how to be certain that the money will in fact reach its destination < 1356822011 520767 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: the charity drive is actually money laundering < 1356822012 137804 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1356822014 497355 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does givewell have a presence in second life < 1356822018 734021 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1356822034 524784 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, as in, it's supposed to be going towards a specific charity < 1356822040 847197 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as in its acting as a charity in itself < 1356822138 334521 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so donate to that charity directly yourself < 1356822174 453946 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be much easier for me to donate via SL < 1356822196 104506 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much so that it's pretty much a choice between donating via SL or not donating < 1356822337 207037 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just do it then, at worst you'll just be contributing a bit to some douchebag's jacuzzi < 1356822608 793315 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1356822609 62162 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-45-88.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1356822609 245887 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1356822758 506180 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1356823028 237269 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I donated to the wrong box < 1356823040 292740 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The location has a donation box for keeping the place open too < 1356823274 576228 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1356823734 91548 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent him a message about it, and also donated some money into the charity box < 1356823918 309315 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/comments/7509256/Rush-Limbaugh-warns-that-president-is-becoming-Barack-Hussein-Kardashian-This-is-bad-news-for-Bajorans < 1356823929 647309 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is only linking for the DS9 reference < 1356824145 867693 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1356824714 854446 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b66f6.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever heard of hollands astronomer cornelis de jager and his satire on pseudo-scientific-religions called "radosophie" (engl. bike-o-sophie)? de jager was able to calculate some of natures physical constants combining some measurements of his bike in simple mathematical formulas < 1356825039 167680 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b66f6.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to completely understand his approach you need to know holland has more bikes than people living in it < 1356825104 57945 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, yes, very interesting. < 1356825324 760181 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds