< 1358122438 496707 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ibtlfmm, eh? Is that a programming language? < 1358122502 23064 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I seriously about to try to convince myself that it's acceptable for a programming language to not have macros? < 1358122523 229995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you? < 1358122526 545464 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're really dramatic, did you know that < 1358122533 119105 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write plays! < 1358122534 153016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole world is holding its breath, waiting for an answer. < 1358122542 284678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Stop spoiling it. < 1358122546 470184 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :plays about hygenic macros < 1358122549 906022 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't Haskell lack macros? < 1358122558 242884 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python, too? < 1358122572 864984 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo's going to have to deal with his love betraying him in this fashion, yes < 1358122590 100532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Clojure lacks macros. < 1358122591 168097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pred <$> "Ibtlfmm" < 1358122592 942658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Haskell" < 1358122603 303399 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lack of macros was a reason for me to lose interest in Haskell < 1358122604 714848 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1358122618 829948 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Python < 1358122625 741674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the fact that haskell more like stupidskell < 1358122627 802615 :Phantom_Hoover!~sploknee@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, this is a joke right < 1358122628 833429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that a reason < 1358122636 790454 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda funny. I tend to think of macros as being a sign of a bad language. < 1358122641 811326 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm telling you. Hackskell is what all the cool kids are going to be saying, shachaf. < 1358122652 244816 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC Haskell has macros < 1358122652 589066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I didn't see monqy say it. < 1358122657 448902 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Smalltalk has some reflective features that sort of kind of make up for it < 1358122662 28008 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Get on that. < 1358122665 533791 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the IDE is something that I really like < 1358122670 460750 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you think you have any interest in NFU? < 1358122673 714633 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NFU? < 1358122677 616478 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't look at that < 1358122682 96032 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1358122697 143672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is imo "the coolest kid??" < 1358122701 747306 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in it greatly because it seems like it could be a good platform for doing category theory. < 1358122726 345224 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need your o for that, shachaf. It's everybody's o. It's the world's o. < 1358122748 700921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: but is it monqys o........ < 1358122759 47001 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That remains to be seen. < 1358122761 125294 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because ZFC seems like it is not a good platform for category theory, and... and I guess I haven't looked at anything other than ZFC and NFU. < 1358122763 239988 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, I think that sometimes macros can make people lazy in coming up with abstractions < 1358122765 301718 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is more than the world, of course. < 1358122767 402081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: iuo are you "the coolest kid??" < 1358122781 357409 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: macros are the feature of last resort. you don't /want/ to use them, but in cases where everything else fails, it is much better to have macros than not < 1358122799 628258 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that sounds exactly correct. < 1358122815 350115 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Lisp et al celebrate macros a bit too much < 1358122862 209387 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From what this guy is saying, the power of Lisp style Macros is akin to what I can do with the syntactic Rewrite Tool and Blocks (Lambdas) in Smalltalk. " < 1358122867 372531 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I have been fantasizing about a programming language that is essentially C++ with tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of macro features. < 1358122877 34155 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I guess C++ already has a bunch of macro-like things. < 1358122884 131646 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rewrite Tool seems to be a thing that extends the IDE with code to transform code once, but I'm not sure) < 1358122885 799430 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah people love metaprogramming C++ but they have to do it in this shit-ass template language < 1358122902 227343 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love macros < 1358122904 169906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358122905 503108 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you write code one way, transform it into something more complicated, but... it stays complicated < 1358122907 494728 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what I mean is, like, C++ with so much metaprogramming stuff that you could essentially write Haskell in it. < 1358122931 221398 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1358122938 504497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did you put me on the MIUAF update list? < 1358122955 404542 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what MIUAF is. So no. < 1358122962 109327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, dude, kmc is Twitterizing? < 1358123067 772868 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ <$> "lambdabot" < 1358123069 147059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "mbncebcpu" < 1358123073 881599 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: welcome to the "twittosphere" < 1358123089 838955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I "followed" people I would totally "follow" you. < 1358123108 71134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead I'll put you in my file of "people to "follow" if I ever start "following" people" < 1358123125 705830 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1358123132 891902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next best thing. < 1358123187 71947 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, the Rewrite Tool thing seems to be some sort of search and replace < 1358123228 494181 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's this about kmc on Twitter? < 1358123319 765407 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a fan of solutions to boilerplate that involve "make the IDE write the boilerplate for you" < 1358123327 891525 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :code is read much more often than it's written < 1358123357 151984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good abstraction allows you to reason about something without knowing what the abstraction expands to < 1358123369 279637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can't tell if that article is a parody. < 1358123415 150740 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copypasta code should be avoided because it's hard to read, not because my poor fingers can't type it < 1358123435 607752 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i see copypasta code i often feel like i'm playing one of those 'spot the difference' puzzles < 1358123454 394487 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they have two drawings of a room and you need to identify the 5 different features < 1358123537 348379 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds right. < 1358123552 23742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally if you generate code you should only ever have to read the source of the thing that generates it. < 1358123565 272452 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be tricky if that source is a bunch of vim macros. < 1358123570 773192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do vim macros count as macros? < 1358123589 255764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lens has files like http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/lens/3.7.3/doc/html/src/Control-Lens-Tuple.html :-( < 1358123628 63695 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1358123647 417957 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonably easy to distinguish the "boilerplate" there, though < 1358123693 963815 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people use 9-tuples? maybe in codegen....do people use codegen................ < 1358123715 817690 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though uh, what happens if you want 9-tu- yeah. < 1358123724 180626 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah there are a lot of things like that in haskell :( < 1358123726 609663 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 10-tuples. whatever < 1358123747 625912 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't stop beginners from gushing about how Haskell is so concise and abstract and you never need to repeat yourself < 1358123778 855435 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beginners gush about everything regardless of anything, though < 1358123792 390646 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1358123810 738464 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not haskell's fault, you just have to wait for them to germinate into soulless, bitter husks. Who use Lens. < 1358123816 361956 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1358123841 668350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty odd that people join #haskell with nicks like "HaskellGuy73" and talk about how Haskell is the best language ever, when it's apparent that they barely know it. < 1358123856 923171 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's odd about it? < 1358123863 588317 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd but not surprising < 1358123871 954684 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :predictable but sad < 1358123881 355937 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sounds more appropriate. < 1358123884 792852 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a gift to us all, monqy. < 1358123890 636632 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would people do that? well, it's just a thing people do..... < 1358123907 171688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw elliott said it was odd first < 1358123910 361958 :Phantom_Hoover!~sploknee@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote inspiration to us all < 1358123910 741367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"im just parroting him" < 1358123912 303102 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :546) Dear god stop staring at me. no never monqy is always staring at everyone. it takes many eyes to do this but I manage He is an inspiration to us all. < 1358123952 617560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Phanton___Hoover < 1358123954 332955 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1358123956 56341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quoerjan < 1358123957 435666 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :222) (the former is a very deep theorem, i'd have had to read the whole book to understand it, so i didn't.) \ 190) * oerjan considered buying lutefisk, but apparently it cannot be prepared in microwave \ 59) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies \ 377) as i was fi < 1358123999 479117 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These people would typically claim that it was not a necessary feature, everything you could do with macros could be done using various features of Smalltalk. I do not dispute this, save to observe that the same could be said for a Turing machine. " < 1358124006 444119 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what about HaskellLove < 1358124019 724951 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'don't forget that HaskellLove used to be scalalove' < 1358124031 118168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HaskellLove has been gone for a while now. < 1358124031 288805 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the turing argument is such a boring argument < 1358124033 889663 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how many eulers have you done < 1358124035 611966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows what they are now. < 1358124041 122894 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta do 20 eulers this afternoon < 1358124048 433471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love eulers < 1358124050 159844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358124053 362815 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw my uncle is the king of space < 1358124056 551786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess beaky is in the post-kmc era. < 1358124061 792102 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know this beaky < 1358124076 651093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're missing out. < 1358124121 238288 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has this problem more than most, because it's so different < 1358124152 508193 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1358124153 995417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it is a bit harder to be a seasoned Python developer and then one day decide that Ruby is the answer to all problems of software < 1358124174 958021 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it's self-evidently pretty similar < 1358124177 783095 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure people do it though < 1358124193 47300 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who think that superficial details of syntax are the answer to all problems of software < 1358124198 950483 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they write excitingly long blog posts about it! < 1358124218 940890 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, i am better than those people because i'm too bitter to find anything exciting anymore < 1358124222 139431 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1358124235 334756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not actually true though, i'm just excited by things other than languages) < 1358124248 228045 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, how's Agda on Aeroplanes going < 1358124272 991080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What are you excited by these days? < 1358124317 948859 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulating page permissions using split TLBs < 1358124327 457087 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stackjacking exploit against asterisk < 1358124341 349372 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything involving the word "stackjacking" is pretty exciting imo < 1358124348 924880 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is another thing i found cool recently: '...one strategy group was buying iphones periodically and comparing their serial numbers to estimate the velocity of sales, to front run the earnings numbers from Apple.' < 1358124349 269252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a card game? < 1358124371 142079 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like the what's-it-called. < 1358124372 561733 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: german tank problem? do they actually use serial serial numbers? < 1358124380 455876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1358124402 629963 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I did not know it was called this < 1358124411 308607 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1358124418 367637 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? i thought everybody learned about it in high school stats < 1358124430 606040 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not I < 1358124433 424419 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have high school stats. :-( < 1358124433 846508 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I forgot < 1358124438 722250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I sort of did. < 1358124441 140452 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting applications of boring math, such as killing natzees, you see < 1358124447 78489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they certainly didn't talk about it. < 1358124451 473223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I heard about it somewhere else? < 1358124462 836066 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP Stats was a weird class because it was 50% students who found calculus too difficult and 50% students who had already completed all the calculus that was offered < 1358124472 597027 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might say it had a... *puts on sunglasses* bimodal distribution < 1358124478 239002 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1358124481 834661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of minor syntactic differences, it's funny how Ruby's "for x in xs; ...; end" and Python's "for x in xs: ..." are completely different. < 1358124489 936031 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey that's what it was like here too, gosh < 1358124501 530130 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What's the difference? I think you mentioned that before... < 1358124503 967036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the ruby one do? decode some YAML into arbitrary Ruby objects? < 1358124506 371273 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I ever actually took a proper stats class, I really should have < 1358124538 707195 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember much from ap stats, honestly... < 1358124543 578967 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took AP Stats in high school, and then in college a stats course that was more mathematical (e.g. proving that things are an unbiased estimator or whatever) < 1358124562 425796 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former was crucial for the latter, not because we learned much hard math, but because we learned the language statisticians use < 1358124568 141280 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is different from mathematicians and anyone else < 1358124588 8686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: One of them passes (\x -> ...) as an argument to a method; the other one calls a method repeatedly to get results. < 1358124590 69520 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AP Stats was mainly about applying one of 5 cookbook procedures and then writing a couple paragraphs justifying your choice < 1358124597 758532 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also, wow, that iphone sales thing < 1358124599 542475 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is brilliant < 1358124606 25390 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do "mathematicians" even have a unified language < 1358124608 994169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not really a maths course, but seems to match how people use stats in the real world < 1358124610 22545 :Phantom_Hoover!~sploknee@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stats is horrible < 1358124611 185417 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: uh, huh. < 1358124615 36394 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ah < 1358124644 884724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's "traverse" is a generalization of both that's in practice a bit more awkward to use than either? < 1358124650 56573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: yeah, I want to find out if they actually made money doing this < 1358124652 909218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it depends on what you want to do with it. < 1358124655 446677 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much smarter than my stock trading strategy which consists of "short microsoft" (okay that's only half-serious but) < 1358124659 368046 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: come again? < 1358124667 130379 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I don't understand the "passes an argument" one < 1358124682 301548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Ruby "for x in xs; ...; end" becomes xs.each {|x| ... } < 1358124698 878325 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1358124704 240887 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and I take it xs.each {|x| ... } is a function call to xs.each? < 1358124710 391263 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :method call < 1358124713 72172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, yes. < 1358124724 501178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can emulate the Python behavior using continuations or something if you want. < 1358124726 168380 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but conceptually, they both do iterate over xs and invoke some code once for each element, yeah? < 1358124734 986993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1358124738 221321 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think you could redefine the each method? < 1358124740 747142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case the mechanisms overlap. < 1358124753 119565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You can redefine __iter__ or whatever it is in Python too. < 1358124774 383999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it's interesting that such completely different things are going on. < 1358124775 928198 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm. < 1358124788 819448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell you use an Applicative to describe some arbitrary effects. < 1358124801 595353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want you can use a coroutine monad or whatever you want to emulate the Python behavior. < 1358124827 797018 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell, anything can have any behavior under any circumstance. < 1358124896 919365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Haskell behavior is actually pretty neat. < 1358124983 755035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Python thing makes it easy to zip two loops together, for example. < 1358125012 670997 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ruby thing can in theory map over more things. < 1358125020 163873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I said each, not map, so maybe that's irrelevant. < 1358125416 18256 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1358126135 688180 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT is off the Internet and rumor is that they're being DDoSed in retaliation for their supposed role in Aaron Swartz's death < 1358126143 938511 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1358126163 573337 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile MIT has already announced an inquiry into their involvement, led by Prof. Abelson < 1358126166 351674 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, seems like it'd take more than just LOIC to take out MIT, but what do I know < 1358126183 906322 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOIC has taken out some pretty big sites hasn't it? < 1358126211 900578 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm not sure how much traffic MIT handles on a given day compared to, like, Reddit < 1358126217 132919 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, they took out the DoJ, FBI, MPAA, warner brothers, RIAA, HADOPI, UMG, and the copyright office all at once < 1358126231 179523 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well then. < 1358126232 215280 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty small university and doesn't host any particularly large services to my knoweldge < 1358126259 120697 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if LOIC can take down most any site except the top few hundred < 1358126265 373863 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do have 1/256 of all IPv4 addresses but that doesn't really help ;P < 1358126313 746595 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there were several MITnet outages last week, so maybe there were existing problems < 1358126405 264238 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempts to search for "MIT DDoS" mainly find articles about DDoS written in German ;P < 1358126428 855954 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reminded when anon tried to ddos amazon or something < 1358126430 376965 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it did like < 1358126431 62198 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothin < 1358126433 469457 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nothing < 1358126448 472728 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was during the wikileaks thing < 1358126569 766398 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh because AWS shut down the WikiLeaks server or something < 1358126584 870095 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikileaks used aws, really? < 1358126630 42695 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was because they refused payment processing? < 1358126631 777589 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a thought: Ruby's attr_accessor vs Smalltalk "let the IDE do it". By letting the IDE make the accessors, when you want to change one, it's a simpler change (just change what the IDE already made). With Ruby, you need to make one yourself according to the format of the thing and then change the attr_ line < 1358126641 727825 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a big deal in Ruby, but a bigger deal in CLOS I think < 1358126656 986220 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, thatwould make more sense. < 1358126666 933139 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1358126676 567667 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, w3.gov and the DOJ are down too < 1358126766 609159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3.gov? < 1358126789 99740 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. um < 1358126789 951475 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3.org seems downish too :^) < 1358126806 442076 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of w3.gov < 1358126808 877109 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1358126814 112552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :justice.gov is up < 1358126816 173704 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what I get for blindly reading articles and assuming they'r right >_>; < 1358126830 255199 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION note to self: techcrunch is badly written
< 1358126844 49005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: That is an problem with articles. < 1358126848 556766 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like too exciting for facts! :D < 1358126883 565011 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: they're just leveraging crowd content to disrupt the space of social big data < 1358126890 386355 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1358126947 151729 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1358127036 183936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: /nick Bicycle < 1358127049 170345 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bicyclidine < 1358127050 355019 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8377438923_a1357cedeb_b.jpg when you see it... < 1358127071 167899 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably eat < 1358127095 526936 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the world as a tesselation? < 1358127100 350434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you could give up eating for lent < 1358127133 289559 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the negative space? < 1358127139 525323 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, that wraps in a way I'm not used to < 1358127234 686075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: want an "exepert level puzzle" < 1358127241 216093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps you have to be an expert < 1358127242 103421 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how expert is this < 1358127253 907765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk said it was expert < 1358127257 298964 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: "have you ever been so self-centered you cut Asia in half?" < 1358127261 211407 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not sure but maybe pretty expert?? < 1358127268 802430 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe... < 1358127270 536092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it involves fixing lens < 1358127278 324772 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1358127314 594806 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: anyway i give up, what is it? i'm so bad at seeing it < 1358127314 765297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a bad enough dude to fix lens........................ < 1358127319 377596 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should introduce lenses to... I would say $language but no language I'm currently or recently interested in uses $ < 1358127321 439241 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the shape of the oceans < 1358127333 798674 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1358127334 397432 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah what Fiora and monqy said < 1358127345 204561 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made me think escher < 1358127373 862153 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering why the antarctic peninsula had those weird-lookin' islands < 1358127403 255477 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the land masses near the edge were duplicated < 1358127420 424805 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...The negative space ones also have that effect < 1358127425 12034 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's map projection for you < 1358127485 731490 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: whats this puzzle < 1358127487 814224 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right MIT hosts w3.org < 1358127494 282512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:15 if someone wants a good expert level puzzle they can finish out the Tailor i indexed comonad definition < 1358127496 785888 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1358127505 971296 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1358128028 697982 :Phantom_Hoover!~sploknee@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1358128521 637629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION first assumed it was some kind of reconstructed prehistoric earth
< 1358128533 875509 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same. < 1358129090 183192 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358129230 98401 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( I think Pharo multithreading is co-operative < 1358129248 425338 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the fact that [true] whileTrue: []. just froze it < 1358129292 568435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a clojure dialect? < 1358129318 151832 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interruptible via Alt-. < 1358129338 172299 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, if you want to believe it is, feel free to do so. < 1358130903 840160 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its smalltalk daftyhead < 1358130989 843343 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well Smalltalk runs in a VM right. So does Clojure. < 1358131003 971528 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're obviously the same thing < 1358131004 142210 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does C < 1358131005 712290 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it < 1358131022 286785 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :C runs in a machine < 1358131040 808230 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, actually is there a smalltalk that targets jvm instead of the... what is it even called? smalltalk vm? < 1358131087 205748 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a variety of smalltalk vms, so the /the/ is a bit off < 1358131092 430825 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no standard for the Smalltalk VM, and hence there's no name beyond "Smalltalk VM" < 1358131100 35573 :ared_!~ared@host192-178-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1358131106 66575 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i was thinking of the one in the smalltalk-80 manual, i thought it was common < 1358131146 881715 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :squeak is probably the most popular, tho pharo is catching on p quick < 1358131147 916678 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk VMS? I hope that's not Smalltalk for VMS. < 1358131155 861693 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :By my understanding, which may be wrong, of "The Language and Implementation" from that book, people care about the language, and some ideas, but only ideas, from the implementation :) < 1358131171 312615 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1358131325 146061 :asderca77!~ared@host209-178-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358131381 144341 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe it's more correct to say "C is a virtual machine" < 1358131402 744831 :poillll!turbo@modemcable238.112-58-74.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1358131403 775969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all languages are specifications for virtual machines and all language implementations are virtual machine implementations < 1358131478 333133 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there things commonly referred to as "virtual machines" that have an execution model more complicated than assemblylike? (or, well, not linear, if that makes sense) < 1358131509 67313 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do massively parallel things count? < 1358131524 24382 :Lotuss!turbo@modemcable238.112-58-74.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1358131555 334220 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading a paper about a pointer-oriented architecture once, but I forget if it was supposed to be hardware or software or someone's psychedelic nonsense. < 1358131581 120989 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: well the flow of control is still broadly "there's a PC, it goes a word at a time", isn't it < 1358131599 460560 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the JVM has memory-ordering semantics for concurrency < 1358131612 608478 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1358131621 326603 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are kind of shitty as i recall < 1358131633 431878 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. what about something like the game of life? like a "virtual machine" that is a set of rules to evolve some state over time < 1358131640 342840 :poillll!turbo@modemcable238.112-58-74.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358131648 723908 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I had a professor trying to do that in hardware. < 1358131656 590481 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether I should `list < 1358131669 971899 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's dataflow processors and stuff. < 1358131692 13329 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess the advantages of a different execution model in the VM are kind of negated if the underlying (V)M has a wildly different one. < 1358131693 143868 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about those processor design type things where you have ALUs directly connected to memory? < 1358131699 602201 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that every single byte in memory gets operated on every cycle or whatnot < 1358131707 957690 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know those type things >_> < 1358131709 683364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Looks like it's still 865 to me. < 1358131715 954848 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember it being an alternative to the von neumann bottleneck < 1358131720 191372 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of some sort < 1358131726 403865 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's a new Tumblr post < 1358131726 749059 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mspandrew.tumblr.com/post/40486423180/lets-take-a-look-at-a-few-responses-more < 1358131766 383261 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"butthurt socialjusticefag", aight. < 1358131773 302672 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: so, what do you mean exactly, I don't think I get it? < 1358131826 999543 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. basically like if I remember right < 1358131834 24801 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a normal machine you fetch some data and operate on it each cycle < 1358131839 554065 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1358131841 615323 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in like, a neural network, every bit of data gets operated on every cycle < 1358131847 821390 :Lotuss!turbo@modemcable238.112-58-74.mc.videotron.ca PART :#esoteric < 1358131872 944826 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because for every bit of state (a neuron for example) you also have hardware that modifies that state based on other things (some sort of logic unit?) < 1358131892 424431 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, imagine you wanted to do the game of life in hardware < 1358131894 143615 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dataflow processor, I thought that was called < 1358131897 581683 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's what it is < 1358131906 715442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every neuron has a corresponding neuroff. < 1358131907 57410 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an actual neural network, not what you're talking about, which sounds like you still have one CPU < 1358131923 177972 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking the sort of thing where "game of life" would be a 1024x1024 SRAM array hooked up so that each square of 9 wires into a logic unit < 1358131927 84460 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to an output 1024x1024 SRAM array < 1358131943 143130 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what a dataflow processor is? < 1358131974 409991 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no, I think a dataflow processor is where you have a bunch of processors piping data into each other, like a physical neural network? < 1358132021 49816 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, i bet i'm getting the name wrong and ust making things up < 1358132046 795698 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I was just thinking of the more general concept of "the amount of arithmetic logic you have is proportional to your memory" sort of thing < 1358132050 239558 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a neural network would count as that < 1358132069 184886 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, yeah. < 1358132072 19352 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a processor with 1MB of memory would do operations on all 1MB every cycle < 1358132087 981089 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a neural net would count as that, right? < 1358132100 81177 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well depending on the complexity of the operations, i guess < 1358132110 657233 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I mean, you'd be doing far simpler operations < 1358132115 520656 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looots of them < 1358132540 44059 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it depends on what the operations are. a basic ANN is just a weighted sum, guess that wouldn't be hard to do in blocks < 1358132621 507485 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when reading about this that the basic idea was that, since it's becoming more expensive to move things around than to do arithmetic on them, why not just avoid moving things around entirely < 1358132643 996351 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in the traditional buses-with-memory-controllers-and-caches-and-prefetchers-and-ways-and-things sense < 1358132651 221717 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was always more expensive? That's why we have caches for memory but not arithmetic. < 1358132688 200993 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ratio has gotten worse over time? < 1358132699 731656 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez. < 1358132721 202360 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_bottleneck#Von_Neumann_bottleneck < 1358132753 514310 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one way to look at it would be to like, compare the ratio of (things not ALUs) to (things that are ALUs) in like, a CPU, to a GPU < 1358132921 277305 :ared__!~ared@host47-123-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1358132926 722207 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: ooh, this is a thing. < 1358132928 221697 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-addressable_memory < 1358132931 472101 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, backus was cool < 1358132938 280128 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's the hardware hashish thing, right? < 1358132951 874664 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... isn't very good as made up adjectives go, is it. < 1358132952 221435 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like what I described I think? < 1358132957 822302 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a comparison dicruit for every single bit in the memory < 1358132960 269821 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*circuit < 1358132969 300992 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's able to search the entire memory in one cycle < 1358132992 776743 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh huh. that's how TLBs work < 1358133023 841095 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really shouldn't conflate hash tables with associative maps. < 1358133030 308896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't. < 1358133040 899028 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with shachaf < 1358133046 785753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with monqy < 1358133058 953225 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thachaf. < 1358133082 61044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: YOUR SENTENCE: s/idin// < 1358133098 372469 :ared_!~ared@host192-178-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1358133108 442490 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware hashish < 1358133108 786799 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1358133121 987658 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware hashashin < 1358133128 614471 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1358133135 335254 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :next after ninjas and rockstars will be hashashin < 1358133137 442604 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love hardware < 1358133139 520956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358133179 414740 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did this loving /e asy thing come from this is like the 3rd time ive caught you saying it < 1358133182 566061 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :$startup is looking for 3 ruby assassins to develop our backend < 1358133195 483750 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assassins??? < 1358133201 94319 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Stephenson wrote about hashashin would they be "popular"? Maybe he should do that. Then maybe people could learn about Ismailism! (haha like hell) < 1358133201 264906 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure to have at least 2 years of experience in ruby and rails, and 4 years of experience in knife and shuriken throwing < 1358133212 590030 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus points if you show up in the interview room without us seeing you < 1358133229 53615 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mentioned briefly in Cryptonomicon < 1358133233 594275 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://slbkbs.org/beaky.txt < 1358133258 988379 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooooo boy < 1358133262 811291 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think that caliphpunk should be a thing < 1358133290 698199 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cyberpunk, except middle-eastern themed instead of japan? < 1358133292 72644 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shitloads of stuff is mentioned briefly in Cryptonomicon, though. I haven't seen a Russian cryptographer coolness vival!! < 1358133297 273762 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: isn't that assassin's creed < 1358133304 251791 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like steampunk but set in 800 AD < 1358133307 3477 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, the israel in that isn't caliphate is it < 1358133309 756680 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle east < 1358133310 788172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: try searching for things like "love" < 1358133327 825685 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1358133328 858182 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: jesus. < 1358133329 202082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "monoid" < 1358133346 166294 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh yes < 1358133354 416747 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is WITH this guy < 1358133356 159170 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«imagine if Haskell had a ``Design Patterns'' textbook equivalent that OOP folks refer to for abstractions» leaving now < 1358133375 350221 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/12.12.03:00:53:40 monoids ftw < 1358133375 520226 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/12.12.03:00:58:56 you love them too? < 1358133375 520399 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/12.12.03:00:59:12 lambdabot can talk? < 1358133378 483568 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf was this your doing < 1358133382 3493 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pharo's dynamic variables involve making a class for each dynamic variable < 1358133398 633519 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stale joke about "enterprise" here < 1358133405 626572 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he keeps saying he loves things????help < 1358133420 849956 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/12.12.29:09:57:40 lambdabot: I thought you loved monoids :( < 1358133421 943469 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf < 1358133425 888040 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stardate 2.4 something < 1358133437 957344 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: imo we should just have more fiction set in caliphates in general < 1358133438 301629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy what < 1358133448 417689 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you make lambdabot say things about monoids < 1358133470 283233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1358133500 485183 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: or really anywhere other than triply fictional medieval france but we knew that already < 1358133589 982663 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: beaky is an "acquired taste" < 1358133597 910740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't appreciate beaky at first < 1358133709 206940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you love monoids < 1358133791 656567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:37:53 stacks ftw < 1358133795 440762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:38:08 beaky: GHC doesn't use a call stack < 1358133799 358052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:38:43 (but it does actually use a stack, just not for function applications) < 1358133802 544681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:38:48 ah < 1358133804 748110 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: yes < 1358133810 646056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1358133814 65342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:39:22 mcstar: that's still recursion :-) < 1358133814 425728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:39:30 recursion ftw < 1358133828 852280 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo corecursion < 1358133835 389106 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beaky is a hero < 1358133912 776837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo monqy is a hero < 1358133948 218888 :ared__!~ared@host47-123-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358134119 463415 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :beaky is a bot?!? < 1358134141 213024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1358134146 422918 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fair use for Tsar Bomba... The photograph belongs to Russian department of Atomic Energy Minatom. Introducing the picture on our server does not interfere with their ability to develop and market new nuclear devices" < 1358134166 914686 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be the best copyright notice i've ever seen. < 1358134183 900218 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's one of my favorites < 1358134216 95557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright © < 1358134219 889053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright ⓒ < 1358134222 852998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright Ⓒ < 1358134224 156600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1358134264 99561 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the atomic energy minatom actually "market" nukes < 1358134287 39402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode: making illegal copies of © < 1358134296 467230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright 🄫 < 1358134310 841066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright ㉢ < 1358134325 18884 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, that's hangul. foul! < 1358134332 698320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright 🅒 < 1358134367 32997 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, Unicode has italic? Does that mean like from Italy, or actually italic < 1358134416 981021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it has italic. < 1358134418 700037 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ask kmc. < 1358134424 933442 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Northrop Grumman made a nice CGI promotional video for the Minuteman III inter-continental ballistic missile < 1358134433 577450 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find it on YouTube with various heavy metal songs dubbed over < 1358134442 866489 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, could you rant about this for a minute so i can absorb your brain? thanks < 1358134462 115175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't do the "Just ask kmc." thing. < 1358134476 267308 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how you shouldn't do the "it's trivial" thing? < 1358134492 102389 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking i would go with Lockheed Martin Space Systems for my next ballistic missile purchase but this Minuteman video really turned me around < 1358134509 194560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright ⒞ < 1358134510 226248 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about italic < 1358134511 259315 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1358134524 849174 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, why would you need parentheses in the one character < 1358134525 881361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright ㈂ < 1358134526 915416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols < 1358134540 756221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I like these: < 1358134543 940856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FD3E ORNATE LEFT PARENTHESIS [﴾] < 1358134544 110838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FD3F ORNATE RIGHT PARENTHESIS [﴿] < 1358134550 539760 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are... pretty ornate. < 1358134558 858684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just my font. < 1358134565 402697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/fd3e/index.htm shows them as ornate. < 1358134570 932497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here they look like normal parentheses. < 1358134586 383680 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they look kinda cool in my font. < 1358134604 192306 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably should remap () to ﴾﴿ for shiggles in fact. < 1358134680 436748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Looks like I'll be going to NY in March instead of Feb. < 1358134686 344527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trip report delayed" < 1358134770 351165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF5F FULLWIDTH LEFT WHITE PARENTHESIS [｟] < 1358134770 696601 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF60 FULLWIDTH RIGHT WHITE PARENTHESIS [｠] < 1358134847 623804 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that effort just to drop 475 thousand tons of TNT on someone < 1358134885 60781 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty ornate < 1358134885 230766 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358134900 470254 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Template Haskell should use those < 1358134902 239618 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358134904 645715 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, dropping tons of TNT on people has been an important use of human resources for decades. Don't diss your forepeople. < 1358134972 153696 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1358134973 187233 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358135003 946941 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1358135087 23227 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358135595 692274 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Sprint accelerated at 100 g, reaching a speed of Mach 10 in 5 seconds" < 1358135639 556507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 100*9.8*5 < 1358135640 935112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4900.000000000001 < 1358135675 367229 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mach ten is apparently 7615 mph. < 1358135690 21605 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but that's not mph is it. gah, units. < 1358135695 197712 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2951 m/s < 1358135749 909323 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the acceleration wasn't constant? since the way rockets work and stuff < 1358135753 412364 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe 100 g was the max < 1358135753 582439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink mach 10 -> m/s < 1358135762 447483 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :3314.6 < 1358135784 652977 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're gonna need the jerk of this Sprint, anonymous quotee < 1358135843 791302 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, W|A gave it at aeroplane altitude < 1358136264 469962 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you have a solution different from mauke's for "getting the address of an object that overloads unary &"? < 1358136318 645422 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember that solution either < 1358136327 342217 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :could maybe reconstruct it though < 1358136678 391640 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i've looked it up < 1358136690 834465 :md_5!md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1358137067 52264 :md_5!md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358138265 829692 :nys!~YXWX@blk-142-60-139.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1358138963 107434 :md_5!md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358139110 237294 :md_5!md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358140049 843784 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1358141315 371800 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358141331 236458 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358141769 781540 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1358141781 207948 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1358141892 869890 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358142630 660122 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1358142707 889101 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5e3.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358142923 564176 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358142929 211815 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358143218 908425 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358144286 726731 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1358144479 529339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why do you use reddit........................... < 1358144745 587286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did i do now. < 1358144861 460231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for about the same reason i used usenet in the '90s. < 1358144884 577367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's addictive. < 1358144911 91082 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use reddit to download a film as a sequence of 50 rar files < 1358144929 79194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't download a sequence of 50 rar files < 1358144951 696641 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no, but you can use it to download a film as a sequence of 50 gif files < 1358144977 222365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love gif files < 1358144978 941338 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358145004 856306 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf you need more jokes imo < 1358145018 801925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really didn't use usenet for downloading either. < 1358145026 516111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: what if it's not a joke < 1358145055 92988 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if shachaf is secretly that #haskell person whose name i forgot already < 1358145064 618844 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1358145099 10470 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess gif files actually are pretty easy. you can make them out of a video in like thirty seconds without knowing anything about anything. < 1358145105 567883 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe it's not a joke. i'm sorry, shachaf. < 1358145113 518899 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: I wrote a GIF decoder once. < 1358145116 103821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should know! < 1358145234 443213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: Also it was a really bad GIF decoder. < 1358145246 282880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the worst gif decoder?????" < 1358145258 323418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: Did you know GIF files have a section for an ASCII art equivalent of the image? < 1358145263 678465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"its that old" < 1358145281 248279 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fantastic. < 1358145329 842492 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what is your solution for finding the address of a thing which overloads operator& < 1358145338 919293 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it start with reinterpret_cast < 1358145344 664219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that supported by browsers? if so maybe i should have used it for the agora horoscope. < 1358145349 662228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: Did you ever read a book that used the word "fantastic" in the sense of "fantasy, not feasible, etc."? < 1358145361 416469 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't have a solution. mauke's solution is http://codepad.org/XomA23ft < 1358145377 754982 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I don't think I have. < 1358145391 954081 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems dubious < 1358145411 280360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have the same guarantees on struct A that you do on char < 1358145425 640150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your solution reinterpret_cast? < 1358145434 386910 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's the one i googled when you asked the question earlier today < 1358145456 776828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is casting to a char and then taking the address even valid? < 1358145457 119131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.informit.com/guides/content.aspx?g=cplusplus&seqNum=546 < 1358145487 777282 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'C++ standard guarantees that an lvalue expression of type T1 can be cast to the type T2& if an expression of type T1* can be explicitly converted to the type T2 * using a reinterpret_cast.' < 1358145500 650908 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"references: really just pointers" < 1358145518 214499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but is casting (Foo *) to (char *) and then using it as an address valid? < 1358145529 928928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there some thing where pointers to different types can be different sizes or something? < 1358145543 133165 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything can be read as a series of chars < 1358145548 701743 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that's the case, if you can ignore function pointers < 1358145608 936382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANAL < 1358145622 320106 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor am I. < 1358145656 940351 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they can be different sizes, but the cast has to convert it < 1358145663 676169 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess casting pointers might just have to be a complicated conversion between kinds of pointers that have different sizes < 1358145685 49274 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'char' and 'void' would be specially required to have the biggest size < 1358145685 219061 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the spec says things like "your machine can be really weird, but it has to make things work properly if it does things weirdly" < 1358145699 812880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good spec < 1358145709 671494 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i can think of is string literals being lvalues. < 1358145719 834750 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but function pointers can be bigger? < 1358145731 60760 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally lvalues < 1358145742 155940 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there's no guarantee that you can convert a function pointer to void* < 1358145771 52661 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some AVR chips with fewer than 256 bytes of RAM but more than that much program ROM < 1358145778 543659 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think GCC will actually use one-byte pointers though < 1358145791 462090 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :once saw code that base64-encoded function pointers because there's no guarantee void* can fit a function pointer < 1358145820 952489 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1358145832 949952 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portability is important. < 1358145904 721794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And base64-encoding them is OK? < 1358145925 969316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: No that's evil, good night < 1358145963 615139 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well playerjaned < 1358145970 187703 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1358145974 655066 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably wasn't base64 though, more like arbitrary encoding as letters and numbers < 1358145989 37301 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whoops" < 1358145993 545661 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there was obviously base64 code elsewhere in this project. it was not reused.) < 1358146021 948507 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it guaranteed that different function pointers are interconvertible? < 1358146033 461909 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use void (*)(void), or char[sizeof(void (*)(void))] < 1358146033 667848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read that it was. < 1358146071 373940 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it matters though, if you change the type it's probably not safe to use the pointer anyway? < 1358146087 312436 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, I meant for casting and then casting back < 1358146099 910479 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is often done for generic stuff < 1358146190 544549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One time I was playing a "reverse-engineer this program" game, and I got to a place that did base64 encoding, and didn't recognize it as base64, and then I felt silly later. < 1358146203 648949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I know to check whether something is base64 before working it out. < 1358146233 525430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the other hand I used some fancy debugger and it was pretty nice. < 1358146239 61719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much nicer than gdb for that sort of thing. < 1358146286 462196 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you also know that it might be non-base64 because derp < 1358146306 887631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1358146314 162303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's easy to check whether something is base64. :-) < 1358146317 305192 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which debugger? < 1358146396 962950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might've been OllyDbg? < 1358146399 744480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. < 1358146646 503486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i hear that's a good one < 1358146882 235974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I remember correctly I tried WinDbg first. < 1358147301 180533 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows nothing about reverse-engineering
< 1358147304 334218 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to learn < 1358147338 986655 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just programming backwards < 1358147440 296234 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's like those "1, 2, 3, 2, 0, what's next" games except a million times harder and also you have to steal the numbers from Iran. < 1358148143 736828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re "'char' and 'void' would be specially required to have the biggest size", as discussed here a while ago, I don't think they are specifically required to have the biggest sizeof; they just need to be able to contain any (object) pointer. So a system with sizeof (int *) > sizeof (char *) should be legal, assuming that any valid int * can be turned into a char * and back. (E.g. if there's some ... < 1358148149 973025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... useless padding or other redundancy in the int * representation.) < 1358148174 234721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie IAL < 1358148199 199914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the DS9K has a feature like that. < 1358148417 324634 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CompuHacker/CHDS9000 huh, didn't know about this thing < 1358148426 703156 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pictured here is the super-secure CHAR_BIT generator for the DeathStation, which uses atmospheric and geological white noise, a plasma lamp, and a variant of the Mersenne Twister algorithm to deliver to the program compiler a value of CHAR_BIT guaranteed to pass all known tests for primality and randomness. This is of tremendous assistance in preventing crackers from gaining knowledge about your systems." < 1358148545 650392 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Armed Response Technologies has a range of ADPs (acronym-driven products) to suit all needs" this is wonderful < 1358148608 298108 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that paragraph you pasted a joke i am not getting < 1358148659 294921 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the deathstation I think is a joke computer that is technically ANSI C compliant but does everything in the most confusing unexpected way possible < 1358148665 220692 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i've wondered about something like this before though. I said I thought it would be interesting to have an implementation do everything "wrong" and I got "oh well that's [real implementation X]" as a snarky answer. < 1358148671 74509 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the joke there is how it comes up with the most random possible values for CHAR_BIT < 1358148680 746757 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... particularly suitable for use in fully automated missile control systems." undefined behavior probably launches the missiles then < 1358148689 78820 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was just gonna say "why would you use a mersenne twister on actually random numbers" < 1358148698 606383 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's all being silly < 1358148705 903700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love random numbers < 1358148708 354955 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DeathStation 9000 or DS9K is sometimes also used as an adjective, as in "a DS9K endianness", meaning an endianness which is neither big-endian nor little-endian, like the American date format MM/DD/YYYY." < 1358148708 699405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358148712 538146 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shachaf, no < 1358148718 460470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: YES < 1358148724 655820 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: haha, never thought if it that way < 1358148726 29198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY ARE EXTREMELY EASY < 1358148733 440818 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf... < 1358148738 298004 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre overdoing it.... < 1358148738 641141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what < 1358148743 825403 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: fwiw, I think some real computers do actually have an endianness like that < 1358148745 545015 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help i can't stop < 1358148752 121541 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, middle-endian is actually a thing right? < 1358148752 463720 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::''''(you should see a doctor < 1358148753 495179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm addicted < 1358148764 860926 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-endian#Middle-endian < 1358148767 617917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what kind of doctor < 1358148769 351743 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god. the PDP-11 < 1358148769 696627 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will love rehab < 1358148772 119693 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy??? < 1358148781 586184 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this ordering is known as PDP-endian" < 1358148782 273502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1358148786 201825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is it contagious < 1358148791 450525 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes:'( < 1358148802 279087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy:i'msorry:'( < 1358148822 125380 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: awesome. < 1358148876 800664 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never has Swift's terminology been used more appropriately < 1358148937 5478 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Segment descriptors on Intel 80386 and compatible processors keep a base 32-bit address of the segment stored in little-endian order, but in four nonconsecutive bytes, at relative positions 2,3,4 and 7 of the descriptor start." < 1358148941 533159 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whyyyy @_@ < 1358148962 493176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Don't ask why. < 1358148964 287033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The segment descriptors are really nasty-looking things. < 1358148965 660387 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an extension of a 24-bit format < 1358148966 693800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how x86 works. < 1358148968 483203 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha < 1358148988 968843 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oooh < 1358148999 43834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love segment desciptors < 1358149003 167902 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess... it's not like I actually know how 286 protected mode works) < 1358149014 625889 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes sense though < 1358149034 131404 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xn--nxa.zem.fi/~fis/segdesc.png look at that thing. < 1358149056 764454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The segment limit is also split into a 16-bit value and then an extra nybble. < 1358149060 584259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie that url looks scary?????? < 1358149061 961439 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that almost looks like a cpuid output register < 1358149103 292308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It's just β.zem.fi except for stupid browsers being all "wahh IDNs are all scammy domain name impersonation attempts". < 1358149116 872297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, scammer?? < 1358149119 692927 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phishers confirmed for racists. < 1358149415 616862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, the 286 protected mode did have a memory limit of 16 megs, so it does sound likely that it has had 24-bit base addresses for segments. < 1358149461 608203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SegmentDescriptor.svg presumably the bits in cursive are post-286 extensions. < 1358149515 294688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, it even says so in the description.) < 1358149515 986110 :Salli35!~Salli35@200.25.222.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358149580 229797 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts out looking so reasonable on the right, and gets progressively more... worrying. < 1358149630 141110 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first bytes are just limit and base address in the sensible 5-byte format, followed by two bytes of flags < 1358149677 534277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One byte of flags, really. < 1358149698 310191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The seventh byte (from the right) is all extended-flags-and-a-nybble-of-limit. < 1358149711 869254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can I use if I want to store true color 32x32 icons with transparency (but not alpha), in lossless compressed formats? What is best way for such things? < 1358149731 253047 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :png? < 1358149757 633649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIF can do it but is certainly not optimal. < 1358149779 742674 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can gif be described as "true color" < 1358149805 13744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG sounds like the most mainstream way of doing it. < 1358149812 611727 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://phil.ipal.org/tc.html technically yes, but only if you're like a really horrific person < 1358149824 693093 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a headerless PNG make such thing? Can it make transparent pixels without alpha channel? < 1358149849 233759 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something wrong with an alpha channel o_O < 1358149855 838360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a "headerless PNG", anyway? < 1358149879 257622 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I didn't know gif could have that many. < 1358149898 742334 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an animated gif where each frame introduces 256 new pixels < 1358149898 912038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more horrific than you think. < 1358149904 939452 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, in different blocks. < 1358149905 110002 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_<;;; < 1358149910 159213 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"great" < 1358149910 513842 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as discarding everything other than the data of the IDAT chunk. < 1358149913 939615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: To be fair, that web page is too complicated. < 1358149922 398773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need a whole new animated GIF frame. < 1358149935 484791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact that's pretty bad -- you see the thing where you can slowly watch the GIF loading? < 1358149938 585576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think PNG's transparency options are limited to either having an alpha channel, or having a tRNS chunk which specifies a single transparency color. < 1358149940 304711 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you could do it in a still, but it'd still be huge wouldn't it < 1358149959 480732 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead it should just not insert GCE blocks. < 1358149973 423300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a better version of that page without GCE blocks. < 1358149984 970329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIF allows multiple image blocks per frame. < 1358149993 273738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCE blocks introduce new frames. < 1358150002 681250 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The undithered image is great, also. < 1358150007 838790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each frame can have its own palette. < 1358150032 304040 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if something like that would expose bugs in decoders < 1358150039 652427 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's so unusual and probably not often tested? < 1358150048 96587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like what? < 1358150054 412445 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to store all the icons in one file, which the program decodes and loads into RAM when it initializes. < 1358150054 581930 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple blocks in one frame? < 1358150061 638189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually pretty common. < 1358150069 242476 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :really :o what's it used for? < 1358150079 285049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want an "efficient" animated GIF, you don't want each frame to have the entire image. < 1358150092 661976 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there's pixels that are transparent, right? < 1358150095 804629 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just use the previous frame's pixels < 1358150097 986516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just changed a few pixels in each corner, you might have small four rectangles in each corner. < 1358150100 737222 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i should dig up that one picture that stymied me once and ask about it here for an exciting technical explanation < 1358150102 261973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they'd all be in the same frame. < 1358150106 384993 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh < 1358150110 890546 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so GIF supports "spare images"? < 1358150111 970049 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sparse < 1358150123 252269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1358150133 942347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can specify where the image blocks are relative to the whole image. < 1358150137 82296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And their size. < 1358150141 43684 :sall!~Salli35@200.25.222.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358150161 594633 :sall!~Salli35@200.25.222.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola < 1358150165 67726 :Salli35!~Salli35@200.25.222.35 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358150173 310667 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ciao. < 1358150194 184020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!list < 1358150215 424257 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :holla??????? < 1358150217 140579 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh, I lost it in my old hard drive. Darn. < 1358150223 286755 :sall!~Salli35@200.25.222.35 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alguien habla español < 1358150229 58627 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah me too < 1358150232 882598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: You could also specify a bunch of transparent pixels and hope for the compression to take care of it. < 1358150237 752961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But LZW isn't that great. :-) < 1358150248 26755 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there are also 16x16 true color icons without transparency, and monochrome 8x8 icons, but there can be one file for each kind of icons. < 1358150253 329492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :LZW is remarkably simple, though. < 1358150272 12172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love lzw < 1358150273 767010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so easy < 1358150281 603913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it SO BAD too. < 1358150288 704283 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that is incredibly cool < 1358150290 698005 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does PNG let you do that? < 1358150298 675075 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is deflate better enough that it doesn't matter too much? < 1358150352 960933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :MNG does, I believe. < 1358150363 519639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG is fancy but I don't know much about it. < 1358150364 967304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNG itself doesn't really have animated frames, of course. < 1358150378 387738 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/kud/jpegrescan/commit/d4b0de61e0689cdc2bcc30ad7d22ec9dce504477 ooh, this was what I was thinking of with image optimization breaking decoders < 1358150385 322885 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could support sparse base images, but I don't think it does. < 1358150402 247251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :JPEG has much fancier compression than lossless formats typically do, of course. < 1358150405 59724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, MNG "objects" have sizes and X/Y locations. < 1358150406 464874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION went to a talk about JPEG once.
< 1358150411 970345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pretty nifty. < 1358150424 736466 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume by MNG you don't mean the file format that Creatures uses for music < 1358150427 585310 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay custom huffman codes and weird huffman scan orderings < 1358150431 187281 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to detect the end of the IDAT data if you know the dimensions and have no header? < 1358150437 554772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The animated PNG thing. < 1358150442 527518 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/MNG < 1358150442 873265 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :APNG is the other one right? < 1358150448 65946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the two competing animated PNG things. < 1358150449 440953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1358150456 183302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's short for "Multiple-image Network Graphics". < 1358150462 142228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not very creative around there. < 1358150480 804341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of wanted to write a JavaScript decoder for MNG or APNG so people could embed them in web pages and have them just work. < 1358150482 238327 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is MNG supported by anybody? I know Firefox has APNG support. < 1358150488 273833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I decided not to. < 1358150491 366145 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an addon for chrome for APNG < 1358150496 923498 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does firefox still support apng? < 1358150498 298150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A GIF decoder in JavaScript is bad enough! < 1358150515 503865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard one of the formats was sort of dead. I think it was APNG. < 1358150515 847405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dropped in 2003" in the Mozilla family, says Wikipedia. < 1358150518 614099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. < 1358150523 736389 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APNG#Application_support wikipedia says it has since 2008 < 1358150529 365136 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! I remember, it must < 1358150533 523552 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bulbapedia uses APNGs for its animations < 1358150544 877990 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mplayer and such can play MNG files. But yeah, it might be a somewhat dead format. < 1358150549 244425 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe it was MNG. < 1358150557 78889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRICK QUESTION: They're both dead, because they've never been alive. < 1358150564 55483 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/SolarBeam_%28move%29 < 1358150565 123901 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't think I've seen a JNG file once. < 1358150581 4406 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image won't animate if you're using unextended chrome or safari or whatever, I think < 1358150594 364307 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only found this out because a friend was like "wait I can't see the animation" and I was like "wait what in the even" < 1358150604 632828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(JNG is the "JPEG image in a PNG container" format.) < 1358150612 561947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIF has a lot of features that no decoders today support. < 1358150618 551289 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a "click to advance" thing. < 1358150624 972301 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Usually, all the applications supporting the MNG file format can handle JNG files, too. E.g., Konqueror has native MNG/JNG support, and MNG/JNG plugins are available for Opera, Internet Explorer, and Mozilla Firefox. The Mozilla Application Suite (and hence Netscape) originally supported MNG/JNG, but native support was removed in Mozilla 1.5a by developers and Mozilla has not supported the ... < 1358150629 340890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the ASCII art thing I mentioned. < 1358150631 55121 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... format since, despite requests from its users. Safari does not support MNG/JNG." < 1358150653 450527 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JPEG image in a...why would you want that? < 1358150669 417374 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ < 1358150692 790273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :JPEG is a really general thing. < 1358150693 138479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You can have transparent JPEGs with it. :p < 1358150708 279090 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you mix PNG coding and JPEG coding in the same image? < 1358150710 386930 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect. < 1358150725 80766 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like JPEG code a photo in the image and PNG code text or graphics < 1358150740 528074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The transparency part can be a 8-bit greyscale JPEG datastream too. < 1358150750 996041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can have a JPEG file with a JPEG-compressed alpha channel. < 1358150776 173963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love jpegs < 1358150780 486267 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so < 1358150781 922312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh < 1358150788 888002 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/quantized/ < 1358150789 574577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i love them < 1358150790 605354 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"huffmansexy" < 1358150818 638791 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jpeg&co are a good sin < 1358150822 140250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the GIF spec talks about CompuServe. < 1358150830 42531 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to be very... discrete < 1358150834 265000 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: that sounds like such an awesomely bad idea that i think it's possible, also < 1358150846 961946 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358150856 572610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :epicmonkey: we already have an epic monqy........................... < 1358150863 293420 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (you're epic right) < 1358150869 87383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: You could do that with a MNG file. < 1358150870 56503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what does that mean anyway) < 1358150876 35710 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: jeez, wow < 1358150879 128687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are you an epic?) < 1358150880 160605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: All MNG decoders are required to support both PNG and JNG subimages. < 1358150888 195566 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is actually incredibly cool < 1358150903 158248 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hi??? < 1358150905 946960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1358150927 474357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't *need* to be animated, you can just compose the things together. < 1358150969 964959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also magnify things on-the-fly with it, if you want to have images with different in-file resolution in different areas. < 1358150974 437961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether some GIF decoders actually support the User Input Flag. < 1358150977 557273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be great. < 1358150980 344803 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that almost sounds SVGesque < 1358151013 215831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that browsers insert an artificial delay when displaying animated GIFs, in violation of the spec? < 1358151026 610127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because back in the day, computers were slow, so they took time between GIF frames. < 1358151033 378782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So people made frames with delay 0 < 1358151045 343612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it became standard and everyone had to be backward-compatible. < 1358151053 718510 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an arbitrary delay, or do they just put a cap on the minimum frame length? < 1358151055 99536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIFF is another format that can be ridiculously ridiculous, and where there's probably a bazillion crufty decoders (made for texture-loading and whatnot) that only support some miniscule subset of it. < 1358151062 38866 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know IE used to make a limit of 100ms per frame or something < 1358151063 414029 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was really dumb < 1358151066 543300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Depends on the browser. < 1358151067 574902 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but firefox can do faster than that < 1358151085 566236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: That's relevant to you when reading that comic strip, isn't it. < 1358151090 482951 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those seizurey gifs are so annoying, though. < 1358151093 601950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maximum speed on my gif animations plz" < 1358151126 739337 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1358151148 600556 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, http://media.tumblr.com/fd5274f9d05acc03c7b795ba34e6886f/tumblr_inline_mgl55oVC6b1r3xc4e.gif < 1358151178 288888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1358151186 980958 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/02628.gif typical homestuck panel < 1358151188 372742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the thing that people were saying was offensive? < 1358151189 59004 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :racial slurs??????? < 1358151191 148340 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that comic strip" < 1358151226 175902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you read that comic strip..................... < 1358151236 959496 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358151241 521559 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good thing about it, which i didn't notice for a while (because I didn't care), is that the interior of the letters are also caucasian skintone. < 1358151244 362683 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Important Details. < 1358151254 738884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love important details < 1358151314 758707 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate important details why can't details be unimportant???please < 1358151322 391273 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I, shachaf. So do I. (sdichaf? help) < 1358151335 430650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 sdichaf < 1358151335 777792 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think my favorite unimportant detail was that one time where a single pixel started fans shipping < 1358151335 944381 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fqvpuns < 1358151339 208362 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally a single pixel < 1358151343 955624 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: er what < 1358151355 575130 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShippingGoggles see the quote here < 1358151359 154586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 Bike < 1358151359 497653 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ovxr < 1358151361 962197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 Fiora < 1358151362 306342 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Svben < 1358151364 771575 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like an important pixel. is it related to jng < 1358151371 802276 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, rot13 fiora is scandinavian. < 1358151377 384516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered changing your nicks to something "more rot13 friendly" < 1358151383 850042 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile i'm icelandic and drunk. < 1358151388 750778 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 Bicyclidine < 1358151389 438876 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ovplpyvqvar < 1358151398 71092 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 Bike < 1358151398 419468 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ovxr < 1358151402 588438 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... actually pretty compelling. < 1358151410 974325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 fizzie < 1358151411 317350 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :svmmvr < 1358151429 297900 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: haha < 1358151431 647801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, friendly enough. < 1358151557 685555 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 oklopol < 1358151558 30219 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bxybcby < 1358151586 905336 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 muukalainen < 1358151587 249989 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zhhxnynvara < 1358151596 734833 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 vittuthuuhkaja < 1358151597 78632 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ivgghguhhuxnwn < 1358151604 602091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rot13 ä < 1358151604 947239 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ä < 1358151626 922844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo that should turn into n̈ < 1358151640 416567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 10 | tr a-z n-za-m < 1358151643 47896 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ynzzr znqnyynaar xbewhinygnnavfrzcvrzzr ivaraäyävxäiryyr irgbivgfhggnzvyyr fbhqnggnzznyyn fbvffä yrvuvaxnyiragäzäg xägxrycbznxh nnggbzvrav < 1358151658 630910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 10 | tr a-z n-za-m | sed 's/ä/n̈/g' < 1358151671 839095 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :anuxreglzn̈g uöyfxlzvyyn xelcn̈vflyrvwban fhhagvvivffn̈n̈a nvuglzvn̈zn̈ffn̈av byravxfrfvnyynzznyyr anvfrzzrgevfvyyn̈aar nuqnfzvfgnn enwbggnnafn gnvgfrzzn̈xfrzzr < 1358151680 918345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :4,0much better < 1358151684 357044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse < 1358151685 39370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now there's an offensive ö in there. < 1358151690 197077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,4much better < 1358151698 824951 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i bet there's a cool and sexy way to do this with unicode < 1358151711 284640 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 10 | tr a-zäö n-za-mn̈b̈ | < 1358151713 416252 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1358151714 447362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 10 | tr a-zäö n-za-mn̈b̈ < 1358151717 197098 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhgxnyyrfv yncfvfgnav uhbyvfghfgnnivyyr fbvgg��i��ff�� neivggbznyyr ghcyvygnav luglzvvaanxfra fhhggnzvan gluzvzcva��af�� crqntbennynvfh < 1358151723 465183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ughhh......... < 1358151735 801049 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that combining_penis_above + hangul "te" is automatically shifted to combining_penis_above + hangul "I don't actually speak Korean, I don't know, something shifted" < 1358151750 242609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 10 | tr a-z n-za-m | sed 's/ä/n̈/g' | sed 's/ö/b̈/g' < 1358151752 706616 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :vyznacvgra an̈ccn̈varaar fn̈qryyvfrfv xnuynnirzznfgn cnxba ryn̈zcn̈an̈aar cvevglggn̈zn̈zzr uhuxrlglin̈ zrebyyrafn xrvxfrffrra < 1358151761 379301 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --russian 10 < 1358151772 518955 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the g's? < 1358151774 659395 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​некахъ kreical довъчальина иняли мобирающие лрупповеркои хромаривле жпва врусствптъмъ осит < 1358151780 146833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --hebrew 10 < 1358151783 321316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Why not? < 1358151786 125163 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​לעית לקול ברוכ ארט גנשטט עדני והמארק להרגש דלכו התבר < 1358151788 186622 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just n umlaut < 1358151802 304539 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ I open 5 processes in Pharo and the UI slows down considerably < 1358151808 566311 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --english 10 < 1358151810 323757 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown option: english < 1358151815 651206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words 10 < 1358151823 168318 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cent annin nion gostothodm ref indensaperley gissumpbe editarla bruing overfl < 1358151838 365895 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how are these produced < 1358151840 86174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --russian --hebrew 10 # why won't you mix it up! < 1358151845 617816 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​מרודרךכללת שהנוטלות перековреиъ терно והשוב пормкор ויחות קריאו перепя חולדהאורטו < 1358151863 186914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love mixing up rtl and ltr languages < 1358151864 217777 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both finnish and russian, there are frequently two adjacent letters that cannot occur next to each other < 1358151865 594165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358151876 279817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're produced from character... trigrams, I think. < 1358151886 970495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some form of character ngrams, anyway. < 1358151900 557769 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1358151911 670835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how can a word start with two characters that dislike each other immensely < 1358151956 817248 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they reconcile their differences for the sake of the greater word. < 1358151957 505561 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have some examples? I don't want to de-rot13 all that, and I don't know Russian. < 1358151973 765771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --finnish 20 # it does mess up wovel harmony quite often < 1358151973 935405 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe these characters aren't as simple as you think, oklopol. Maybe they're reasonable, thinking people, just like anybody. < 1358151979 468600 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuoksimmäksen houstamaksempi hottaviin huojenilaaduistasi julkoneen säähdyssamme hisessä anakissamme kiihtelma ytismisesi kysyvänä esiksensa käämältä mahtaan huhteissanne naiiveäpakenemmilli dosti panammenkivaantitiedotta fyysyville päänneksensä < 1358151990 177113 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ъч is impossible afaik < 1358151992 582873 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"säähdyssamme" < 1358152004 193833 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«naiiveäpakenemmilli» is a pretty great word. < 1358152007 299314 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a compound word, it's ok < 1358152027 328675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No, it's clearly just "in our " except wrong. < 1358152028 361689 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uö is impossible afaik < 1358152040 636757 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1358152048 232435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's an "uö"? < 1358152053 424924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run words --norwegian 10 < 1358152055 894831 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :porelig ligst femtidsførert morøda lusjoneneredning fyltet brøsterendede bokserinjerra vårfattageilene måletraferdarda < 1358152059 24686 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops. < 1358152063 332396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a rule where ø must be followed by jran < 1358152065 740449 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was rot13 < 1358152066 767840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1358152069 552919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a rule where ø must be followed by rjan < 1358152074 363167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure. < 1358152082 966750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lunchtime. -> < 1358152093 682077 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 uiosdufopisadjafs,dlm < 1358152096 516935 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hvbfqhsbcvfnqwnsf,qyz < 1358152104 114933 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 owemdsaasölmcxu < 1358152104 495204 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bjrzqfnnföyzpkh < 1358152113 476835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 Egobot < 1358152114 163669 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rtbobg < 1358152124 567877 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 oboe < 1358152125 252486 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bobr < 1358152133 722416 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 fuck < 1358152134 409258 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shpx < 1358152146 532387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: have you ever gotten "addicted to rot13" < 1358152149 967209 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13quote < 1358152152 515042 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13quote < 1358152153 202355 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13quote < 1358152153 894733 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13quote < 1358152155 609075 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no < 1358152166 5728 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 addicted to rot13 < 1358152166 693478 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nqqvpgrq gb ebg13 < 1358152180 126609 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ebg13 asdfasdf < 1358152183 611252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is your brain: brain < 1358152189 489567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is your brain on rot13: oenva < 1358152191 896084 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 monqy < 1358152192 238438 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zbadl < 1358152199 578357 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i've seen that one < 1358152199 748261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: don't do rot13 < 1358152205 456170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 shachaf < 1358152206 146575 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :funpuns < 1358152216 25239 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 elliott < 1358152216 710833 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ryyvbgg < 1358152230 23048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol.............we've had enough......... < 1358152235 667954 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1358152238 112802 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :): < 1358152243 16762 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 ): < 1358152244 65011 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​): < 1358152244 410619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot13 no more rot13 plz < 1358152245 94697 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab zber ebg13 cym < 1358152255 494812 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna go away then < 1358152268 656088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you will be missed < 1358152364 475300 :sall!~Salli35@200.25.222.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1358152491 93808 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1358152523 553152 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1358152947 238483 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358153009 134636 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358153631 192917 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`list < 1358153632 258868 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti elliot < 1358153966 490749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love updates < 1358153968 897901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358154049 130016 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like shachaf wants to be on the list < 1358154082 371569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy....................... < 1358154253 277075 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dots dots dots dots dot dots < 1358154298 991809 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellipses < 1358154504 812411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1358154576 84578 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1358154609 357893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1358154885 826463 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1358154899 855700 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1358154931 154272 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1358155215 522260 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.50.63 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358155833 351152 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1358157019 24683 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358157779 149601 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basshunter's I-don't-actually-know-what-language music tends to be geeky, their English music tends to be .. not so much < 1358157812 509807 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish, right? < 1358157817 374457 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick googling says Swedish < 1358158055 549751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's the guy with that boat song? < 1358158186 298159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a well-known joke about "Boten Anna" being misinterpreted by people to be about a boat called Anna, due to sv:båt == en:boat.) < 1358158187 709366 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's Can Bonomo < 1358158236 941467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you one of those boats too? < 1358158237 956466 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fnord recall evxpr. i think those stereotypes are correct. there's no way discovered to anything else. it's not really < 1358158271 746868 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1358158427 496360 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1358158450 640934 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Have you ever banned people from this channel? < 1358158452 45744 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it has a lot of people are biased towards c-like syntax because that's what the rumours say. black helicopters and all. < 1358158478 424663 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1358158601 646782 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the music video even has a boat, doesn't it? < 1358158683 506200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there was some sort of a thing like that. < 1358158704 590819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Despite the esoteric subject of the lyrics, the song was well received by mainstream media, albeit the word bot was frequently mistaken for boat (bot ("bot") is commonly pronounced almost the same as båt ("boat") in the dialect spoken by Altberg), and the double meaning of the word kanal — the IRC channel mistaken for a canal." < 1358158878 590394 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If people didn't get that confused, would it have been as popular? < 1358158940 834035 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, do I list hobbyist stuff in Experience on my resume? < 1358158946 25949 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, on LinkedIn? < 1358158988 59544 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's a projects thing < 1358159086 944981 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the first snippet on http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenGL_Programming/Modern_OpenGL_Tutorial_02 equivalent to a strict version of Haskell's readFile? < 1358159217 209704 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there a cover of the song that was *actually* about a boat? < 1358159224 816778 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a music video of some guys partying on a boat < 1358159227 346790 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to further confuse everyone < 1358159414 155375 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certain there was a banal English cover < 1358159422 265488 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For no good reason other than to pander to non-geeks < 1358159425 41065 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1358159436 12331 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now You're Gone" < 1358159451 853623 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same song different lyrics < 1358159485 108726 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1358159527 553068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That's kind of nasty code you've got there. < 1358159540 666312 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's why I'm confused < 1358159552 905578 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it ought to be readFile < 1358159562 666407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's clearly what it's trying to be. < 1358159565 808085 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In SDL some things work with separate threads. How does this interact with global variables? < 1358159580 405926 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably "badly" XD < 1358159679 302542 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1358159705 436194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's got all those problems implied by the comments, and arguably several more too, but a readFile is what it's clearly trying to be. < 1358159720 914866 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1358159820 816685 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want to know in what circumstances it would be OK to read/write global variables (to deal with music and timers)? < 1358159962 267453 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358160318 374169 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe use mutexes for starters? < 1358160751 396058 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Is it bad if I reorder my Projects thing so that the only one I can proudly point to is on top, even if that puts that section out of chronological order? < 1358161016 850900 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my brother went to see Basshunter live < 1358161617 518610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the better way to paste text on a screen in SDL, using SDL_LockSurface or using a paletted SDL_CreateRGBSurface and SDL_BlitSurface? < 1358162022 46258 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358162494 648280 :Cryovat!~null@sky.prism.winterday.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1358162525 264736 :Cryovat!~null@sky.prism.winterday.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358162535 951415 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1358162552 216249 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358162851 656096 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358164502 722194 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1358165685 346195 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have to say I prefer ifTrue:ifFalse: to the traditional Lisp if < 1358165696 439355 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although do realize it's possible to write a better if) < 1358166659 805313 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1358167999 218362 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know what GIMP's like on KDE? < 1358168016 678790 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-143.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1358168016 848818 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358168025 90063 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358168035 266922 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-143.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1358168035 437401 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1358168091 778013 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1358168107 327829 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably like GIMP. < 1358169066 352968 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358169580 444715 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1358169852 75405 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be worth upgrading to Ubuntu 12.10 just to get Gimp 2.8 < 1358169977 400036 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1358169990 18558 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask a hard one < 1358170017 180799 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I install GIMP 2.8 on Ubuntu 12.04 < 1358170328 482905 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I patch KDE 2 on FreeBSD < 1358170982 51281 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mildly tempted to switch to Gentoo < 1358170996 350979 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help < 1358171055 212809 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1358171686 408774 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1358172661 101184 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything is worth getting Gimp 2.8 for the sole reason that it finally supports a single-window mode. < 1358172695 303911 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help I'm actually switching to Gentoo < 1358172703 367561 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm still planning on using Unity < 1358172716 979687 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to believe that something may be seriously wrong with me < 1358172740 597662 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Unity, too. I got fed up with Gentoo after using it for a while a few years ago, though. < 1358172777 621950 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me why, then give me the opportunity to get fed up myself < 1358173528 770134 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358174141 635218 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upgrades were broken to a degree proportional to how long it was since you upgraded the last time. If you upgraded daily, it was more or less fine. If you didn’t get around to upgrading for a while, trouble was sure to follow. < 1358174443 824843 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs ubuntu on boily
< 1358174586 136457 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: my machine ain't gonna get no ubuntu installed on it! I like my arch very much, thank you :p < 1358174602 487945 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, back from vacation. hi all! < 1358174610 379325 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not installing on your machine < 1358174614 682453 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm installing on you < 1358174616 746885 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1358174642 513891 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION subtly scuttles away from quintopia in a non aggressive manner...
< 1358174645 944468 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fast enough to run ubuntu? < 1358174790 205377 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my cardio is abysmally bad. I don't think I can do with much more than good old ms-dos. < 1358175180 180805 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358175458 755261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: dont use gentoo < 1358176022 919111 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why is Taneb thinking about using gentoo < 1358176125 549280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good q < 1358176146 238551 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it say about him < 1358176147 889555 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a person < 1358176154 513819 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not rhetorical btw) < 1358176301 929512 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358177849 759720 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1358177937 802391 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-143.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1358177938 11981 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-143.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1358177938 12147 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1358178008 639804 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1358178663 625739 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sploknee: it says nothing about him as a person. fundamental attribution error. his environment and experiences led to his believing it would be a good idea. he can still be saved. < 1358178684 968654 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, but it's gentoo....... < 1358178732 808805 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i installed gentoo once, back in '04 < 1358178772 745912 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, i didn't use it much or keep it around long, but i'm no worse a person for it today < 1358178778 171955 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can still be saved < 1358178835 888690 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why is gentoo so corrupting btw) < 1358179043 569199 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> groupBy (\x y -> (x+1)==y) [1,2,3] < 1358179044 947919 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the community i think < 1358179045 117944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1,2],[3]] < 1358179047 184028 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1358179053 550459 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never was involved in the gentoo community < 1358179065 149744 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i bet if i were, i'd be utterly lost to salvation < 1358179088 760485 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1358179094 584064 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the x stay constant and y change < 1358179136 176470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: that is an invalid use of groupBy, I believe < 1358179151 216936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1358179154 663974 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How so? < 1358179156 143321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the predictae you pass has to be an equivalence relation < 1358179165 210597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*predicate < 1358179181 895141 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1358179191 582745 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I'll have to write my own grouping functiom then =P < 1358179699 28055 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1358180591 689837 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 10 $! [1..] < 1358180593 67708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] < 1358180599 703099 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, why did that work < 1358180848 892522 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1358180867 940365 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1358180880 978865 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1358180964 957414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: ($!) only goes to weak head normal form < 1358180970 168356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it just finds a constructor < 1358180983 682457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluate [1..] to WHNF and you get ((:) ) < 1358181039 115980 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1358181048 981465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHNF is the primitive step of Haskell semantics because it's the minimum amount of evaluation before you can pattern-match something < 1358181072 20384 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = [1..] in a `deepSeq` take 10 a < 1358181072 443405 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, infinite lists always work the same with $ and $!, bar speed differences? < 1358181073 570463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `deepSeq' < 1358181073 740070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant `rdeepseq' (imported from Contro... < 1358181079 220998 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :buh < 1358181092 289156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yes < 1358181100 73195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: the thing is, (take 10) is already strict < 1358181101 724951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 10 undefined < 1358181103 229148 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1358181111 918599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 10 (last (repeat [])) < 1358181114 444287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes unless you consider (let a :: [Int]; a = a in a) to be an infinite list < 1358181116 746109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1358181116 915981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: Prelude.undefined < 1358181123 93448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take 10 _|_ = _|_ < 1358181127 801997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (take 10 $! x) is just (take 10 x) < 1358181148 561335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas e.g. repeat _|_ = [_|_, _|_, _|_, ..] < 1358181149 476502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1358181151 99992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat undefined < 1358181152 287409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1358181153 764302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat $! undefined < 1358181154 798348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1358181162 220336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\_ -> ()) (repeat undefined) < 1358181163 592487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()... < 1358181164 629086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\_ -> ()) (repeat $! undefined) < 1358181166 684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1358181193 843075 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1358181865 194596 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f ⊥ = ⊥ is the definition of "f is strict" < 1358181945 152577 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1358182293 993922 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1358182630 161130 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1358183843 908541 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f5e3.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1358184643 816433 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1358184832 240237 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1358184983 979840 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :const undefined is strict? < 1358185274 409363 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so yes < 1358185285 786333 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking, of course. < 1358185290 971386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1358185292 561986 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1358185301 196243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to indistinguishability of bottoms < 1358185316 59329 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1358185336 66784 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not overanalyze this < 1358185360 748899 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1358185403 345515 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358185805 409347 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi epicmonkey < 1358185812 47798 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to gossip about elliott's life? < 1358185863 200077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1358186158 760251 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1358186232 997417 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other places < 1358186246 105440 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also are the worlds end some at the sea jaws < 1358186256 595193 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or over a dark lake in a desert or a city < 1358186268 368587 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is the nearest in place and time < 1358186274 328243 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.175 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now and in England < 1358186281 183478 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never in lost carcosa < 1358187006 277170 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1358187527 298353 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358187543 104651 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358187857 491727 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A German student "mooned" a group of Hell's Angels and hurled a puppy at them before escaping on a stolen bulldozer, police have said." < 1358187865 819303 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1358187877 957720 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you escape anything on a bulldozer < 1358187884 286904 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly and with great force < 1358187903 892211 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :through a wall maybe < 1358187912 723456 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He caused a 5km tailback on the motorway < 1358187918 994517 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I recall one (US) story about a "chase scene" involving a bulldozer. < 1358187940 943633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOW a man driving one around town and crushing everything in his path. < 1358187970 126712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer <- yeah, I think it was this one. < 1358188038 876059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :killdozer < 1358188101 280079 :Snowyowl!5c6b415a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.107.65.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358188127 28811 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Outraged over the outcome of a zoning dispute, he armored a Komatsu D355A bulldozer with layers of steel --" I think that's called "showing initiative", or something. < 1358188149 62823 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, he copied it from that movie with Orlando Bloom < 1358188187 552584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this quote: [["I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be unreasonable", Heemeyer wrote. "Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."]] < 1358188218 916923 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of Falling Down as well < 1358188638 920238 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O ^ and := in Smalltalk are syntactic sugar < 1358188716 926209 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sending messages of some kind? < 1358188720 782223 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it returns the output of the last expression if not told otherwise? < 1358188772 260213 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1358188775 45633 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, yes < 1358188869 559615 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5638052/is-it-really-all-about-message-passing-in-smalltalk?rq=1#comment6435955_5638259 < 1358188915 755031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, apparently that is not the case. Just tried it, it returned the object itself < 1358188951 18026 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: okay i read the link. i didnt know about those messages. < 1358189633 905148 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1358189637 456125 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1358189659 832475 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1358189740 567416 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1358189978 394522 :Snowyowl!5c6b415a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.107.65.90 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1358190269 239282 :Snowyowl!5c6b415a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.107.65.90 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358190406 193522 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, but why does that surprise you? < 1358190427 704801 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ho damn beaky is in ##c. < 1358190436 845758 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i love switch statements" < 1358190508 55171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he really say that? < 1358190553 599490 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He really did. < 1358190557 389127 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But! Not that they are easy. < 1358190568 423358 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they get too big < 1358190582 255370 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes.. < 1358190585 134650 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love duff's device < 1358190597 290877 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe sometimes there's too much break? < 1358190597 530004 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duff's Device would be a good name for a band < 1358190617 991312 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a hakell function that computer euler's totient btw? < 1358190625 102630 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*haskell < 1358190629 253934 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*computes < 1358190642 789063 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1358190655 134960 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@faq Can Haskell compute Euler's Totient? < 1358190655 315889 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. < 1358190696 402073 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@faq Can Haskell compute all digits of Chaitin's Constant? < 1358190696 582798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. < 1358190699 260170 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :@faq Can haskell do anything? < 1358190699 440793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. < 1358190709 312969 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a weird thing for there to be a standard library function for,though. < 1358190738 844065 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if they have a cryptography library that is standard, they should definitely have euler's totient < 1358190751 805461 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure about that either < 1358190764 636144 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1358190789 506220 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What colorspace is best compression? < 1358190920 704107 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1358190959 30573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :black and white < 1358190960 232652 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358190976 283536 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the image and minimum quality < 1358191008 905467 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would ASCII art be like really efficient? < 1358191012 337706 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok probably not. < 1358191134 643667 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358191137 322911 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have an all white image, put it in one line to simplify, and then encode it as the kolmogorov complexity of the length of the line. it's simple. < 1358191315 979143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean lossless; sorry I didn't be clear < 1358191343 726528 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't Bike's suggesting be lossless :p? < 1358191352 198111 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suggestion < 1358191432 649634 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is RGB best (as PNG uses), or do other color spaces result in a better compression (it does not necessarily have to be DEFLATE)? < 1358191435 629775 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You probably just want a colorspace with only the colors that you use < 1358191474 356488 :Snowyowl!5c6b415a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.107.65.90 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1358191562 91951 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect you can do better by separately compressing contiguous luma and chroma channels < 1358191619 459473 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hm. Wouldn't that depend on the amount of colors used? < 1358191630 230838 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1358191644 631531 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not always better, I mean for some common sorts of images < 1358191664 953779 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the ones with more colors, probably < 1358191667 882040 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would work, if you always use the same color and know which ones you are going to use! Still I did think of having a "reuse color" command, and a command for run length, and other than that to be predictive coding somehow. What is best probably depend much on what kind of pictures you are encoding. < 1358191727 172876 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I am trying to do, however, is making the 32x32 and 16x16 true color icons for a puzzle game. < 1358191860 418645 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, is it really that much of a problem if they are not compressed in the most efficient way known/possible? < 1358191914 927613 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/compressed/encoded < 1358191942 991107 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to be absolutely best, but I want to avoid redundant stuff being repeated too many times. However there may be many icons, due to many different kind of pieces in this game! < 1358191961 581515 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Alan Davies known for anything other than QI? < 1358191967 530970 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1358191980 329326 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jonathan Creek, a mystery series < 1358191984 183158 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's an actor < 1358192387 646208 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was also in Angus, Thongs, and Perfect Snogging < 1358192621 344969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358193107 647096 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has a "rather smart" program that generates a program as short as possible given sets of input and output? < 1358193117 379094 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*been created yet < 1358193177 441333 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up massalin and her superoptimizer. < 1358193179 193138 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that's mathematically impossible < 1358193187 59167 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out the space of programs is really fucking huge, though. < 1358193249 569129 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: notice "rather smart", it may use if statements if there is no other option; also do you seem to recall the proof < 1358193267 473406 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well given finite sets of input and output, or something less than a turing machine (say, a pushdown automaton, a physical computer) it's possible, if not tractable... < 1358193294 77906 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: it's impossible because consider what happens if you let it use itself. < 1358193330 68358 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be the same proof as for uncomputability of kolmogorov complexity? < 1358193330 960082 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it would generate itself in the ideal situation :D? < 1358193376 531836 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: basically, say RatherSmart(input,output) = some program not involving RatherSmart. But then Eval(RatherSmart(input,output)) is a shorter program. So RatherSmart is wrong. < 1358193445 862489 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I'm ok if it's not always right < 1358193482 543156 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=36194 here. < 1358193512 980566 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more concerned with getting something out than with perfect optimality, so that sounds relevant to you. < 1358193514 449630 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1358193987 880234 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, generating the fastest program is possible at least < 1358193995 960765 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think is more the goal of superoptimization < 1358194007 319509 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you don't have to worry so much about actually halting :P < 1358194082 951330 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, durr, i confused time and space, didn't I. < 1358194103 570039 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because "size of program" is kind of an odd thing to optimize for? < 1358194157 420986 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: fastest program runs into the wonderfully named full employment theorem for compiler writers, though. < 1358194189 631047 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no, it doesn't. hrm < 1358194326 346736 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"full employment theorem"? XD < 1358194354 740780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_employment_theorem < 1358194354 921803 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_employment_theorem oh gosh that is the best name < 1358194540 503321 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1358194606 707292 :Arc_Koen_!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1358194606 887422 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358194607 182764 :Arc_Koen_!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net NICK :Arc_Koen < 1358195319 791720 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of three kind of deck of cards that could be made. < 1358195420 746439 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is cards printed with atomic number, symbol, name, period, group, a few other data, of chemical elements. Some kind of game might be makable with such things, somehow? < 1358195505 537612 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is cards to make a game based on Chinese elements. (Many correspondences have been made up for Chinese elements, it seems.) Each one of the five beats another create, destroy another, etc, to be balanced in this way. < 1358195662 589140 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is a deck of 360 cards one for each degree of a circle. Each card might have: degrees, astrological sign, degree in sign, classical element, decan, hemisphere, northern season, southern season. A game may be made of this somehow, using sign/degree in sign like suit/ranks perhaps, or having two players north and south, or using elements, and more ideas. < 1358195731 536207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! I also forgot: mode (cardinal/fixed/mutable; cycling in this order starting from zero). < 1358195965 135769 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1358196130 830404 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1358196246 315727 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, you can use any deck to play mao < 1358196269 310543 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Do they not care what is printed on the card? < 1358196278 209614 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really < 1358196281 471327 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kevan.org/games/minimao.php < 1358196307 319984 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean as long as not all the cards are completely identical, of course < 1358196836 555807 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1358197184 715277 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Horrible Turn any good? < 1358197706 668995 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1358197763 533858 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: i think an experienced mao player could make a good game out of a deck of identical cards. < 1358197795 837626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah, but it'd take a while to get started < 1358197819 166999 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a price true players are more than willing to pay < 1358197905 799554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably add a fizzbuzz rule as the first one :) < 1358197917 272309 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1358198492 232399 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358198948 714975 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1358199154 104456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan < 1358199161 545902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you the real oerjan? < 1358199171 392247 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a real oerjan? < 1358199193 614088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A truerjan. < 1358199193 890482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several! < 1358199204 716528 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvg is doing server upgrades, so i'm using webchat instead < 1358199212 303282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Remember Trurl? < 1358199217 85310 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1358199217 560659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A likely story! < 1358199246 646949 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: marvelous! truth is so unlikely to be likely, usually! < 1358199293 704069 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there a person named Trurl here before? I think Ilike this person. < 1358199334 477856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I was thinking of Lem's Trurl < 1358199355 92169 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. wondering if someone had named themselves after lem < 1358199383 716934 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stanislaw lem? (i still don't know about trurl) < 1358199397 489310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cyberiad < 1358199489 931622 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trurl and klapaucius (probably spelling wrong) are the main characters of that. < 1358199494 798293 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess youcould also be Pirx or w/e < 1358199561 968717 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-143.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1358199562 148674 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-143.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1358199562 148834 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1358200538 101201 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-113-189.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1358200637 786328 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1358200643 479502 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358201714 951009 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1358201747 654418 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@show ø < 1358201747 834407 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\195\184" < 1358201774 973679 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "ø" < 1358201775 153789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) < 1358201841 768891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unicodiness bug? < 1358201871 81094 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1358201966 286284 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably food < 1358202026 935386 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1358202069 901503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ord ø < 1358202070 375452 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :195 184 < 1358202075 343492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It matches! < 1358202252 792192 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well I guess if you play long enough, some cards will end up "differently damaged" and then you can start *really* playing < 1358202269 523722 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking you would ust play so many cards at a time. < 1358202287 226209 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooh right < 1358202320 735719 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could make rules about folding or tearing cards apart < 1358202354 622791 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many possibilities for fucking with people < 1358202378 947730 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah but how the heck do you get any of the bots to give an actual codepoint number... < 1358202386 620866 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1358202408 47265 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, I'd just say that all the cards still have a suit and number and just play as normal. < 1358202434 162851 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, far better. < 1358202476 173231 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can I play... this one?" "Hmm. No." < 1358202524 112431 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me, what kind of Mao game lets you talk < 1358202531 883242 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just give that fucker some penalty cards! < 1358202606 849884 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -n ø | iconv -f utf8 -t utf16be | od -t x1 # oerjan: the hard way < 1358202608 281500 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 00 f8 \ 0000002 < 1358202652 910854 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weak < 1358202693 359483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use utf8; printf "U+%04x", ord("ø");' < 1358202694 790667 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+00f8 < 1358202838 306421 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showHex (fromEnum (maxBound :: Char)) "" < 1358202839 498184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "10ffff" < 1358202858 264738 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST SO YOU KNOW < 1358202898 356630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo ø | perl -C7 -pe '$_=ord' # short-ish < 1358202899 783505 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :248 < 1358202902 3364 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t maxBound < 1358202903 431509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bounded a => a < 1358202943 362660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'use utf8; printf "U+%08x", ord("ø");' # FIXED < 1358202944 493693 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+000000f8 < 1358203124 57537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Integer -- the LARGEST NUMBER < 1358203125 243489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Bounded GHC.Integer.Type.Integer) < 1358203125 480649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1358203167 486426 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, man. < 1358203172 788132 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Int < 1358203174 31211 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9223372036854775807 < 1358203183 303756 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not so big. < 1358203214 763125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromIntegral (maxBound :: Int) + 1 < 1358203215 979891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9223372036854775808 < 1358203216 217566 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's several orders of magnitude bigger than it is on my machine, so :P < 1358203226 716657 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1358203248 346893 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Word64 < 1358203249 537819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 18446744073709551615 < 1358203252 492385 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit? probably only twice as big as on your machine < 1358203259 503130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2**29 - 1 < 1358203260 695081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5.36870911e8 < 1358203267 995950 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 bit machines are twice as big as mine. yes < 1358203398 732235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Word128 < 1358203400 19198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: type constructor or class `Word128' < 1358203400 200939 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of... < 1358203403 742295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad. < 1358203404 226620 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> log (2**32) / log 10 < 1358203405 706227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.632959861247397 < 1358203460 694674 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1358203469 623827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 10 (2**32) -- no need for your FANCY MATH. < 1358203470 854170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9.632959861247397 < 1358203573 854798 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Napier's Bones would be a good name for a band < 1358203583 903589 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: excuse me, what kind of Mao game lets you talk << the kind where you care about not losing your friends < 1358203586 618479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length.show) (2^32) -- no need for your FANCY MATH < 1358203588 323843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1358203592 901899 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably psychedelic doompunk mathrock < 1358203597 446017 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: that is a bullshit game of Mao, sir < 1358203616 327945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10**(logBase 10 (2**32)) - fromIntegral (maxBound :: Word32) - 1 -- its not zero math is wrong world is crumble < 1358203617 441368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -1.6689300537109375e-5 < 1358203618 632146 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t 2**32 - 1 < 1358203619 827307 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating a => a < 1358203654 696009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you read The Cyberiad? < 1358203694 177892 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :/ < 1358203701 598657 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should fix that, it's so fun. < 1358203726 76336 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a pagelong love poem using topology terms! and it's been translated < 1358203801 939437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been translated into Hebrew! < 1358203804 21285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also English. < 1358203813 495146 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, who did the Hebrew translation? < 1358203837 129777 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION first heard about the Cyberiad in the context of books that are hard to translate
< 1358203907 231181 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1358203925 901689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1358203977 349906 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358204086 986247 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's no doubt that Apple is at the center of technology's largest revolution ever" < 1358204089 848333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1358204109 308441 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i forgot about iAgriculture and the iSteamEngine < 1358204111 359270 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Arab Spring? < 1358204117 872887 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1358204133 804588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you doubting? don't doubt. there's no doubt. < 1358204135 548613 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it when "technology" means exclusively "shiny toys for rich people" < 1358204150 207076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love technology < 1358204152 151369 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is so easy < 1358204169 262071 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1358204204 152434 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it when "technology" means exclusively "shiny toys for rich people" <-- well at least it's not so geared /directly/ towards chopping poor kids' arms off? < 1358204227 835381 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could argue that smartphones worldwide are a huge information democratization revolution thing? < 1358204240 378988 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people in pakistan are mostly not buying iphones < 1358204252 586167 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the government keeps banning them. < 1358204256 433961 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bit of a turn-off, that < 1358204296 32430 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellphones are a huge global thing yeah < 1358204346 661040 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also, http://www.theonion.com/articles/twitter-creator-on-iran-i-never-intended-for-twitt,6783/ < 1358204377 700006 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something really amazing about how you can have some place in africa where the government is falling apart and there's serious disease problems and armed conflict and unstable food supplies but everyone is carrying around a cell phone and texting each other < 1358204382 851800 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about smartphones much less luxury smartphones < 1358204388 441319 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1358204397 10662 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes sense, I think < 1358204398 437800 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: do you know about M-Pesa? < 1358204403 754332 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since like, "stable food supply" is a lot harder than "$20 cell phone" < 1358204410 208023 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google M-Pesa < 1358204412 722104 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=%4d%2d%50%65%73%61' \ Alert!: Unable to access document. \ \ lynx: Can't access startfile < 1358204417 32160 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1358204421 85037 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google m-pesa < 1358204422 275258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa < 1358204422 455071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: M-Pesa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1358204427 421427 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weirdest thing in anthro class was still that everybody, everywhere, has a t-shirt < 1358204437 415640 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a system used in Kenya and Tanzania for sending money with your cellphone < 1358204444 53402 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably secure / resistant to fraud < 1358204448 418082 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. that is so cool < 1358204454 838983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for people with no prospect of having a bank account < 1358204455 329755 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, nice. < 1358204459 663623 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's used by GiveDirectly for their cash transfers < 1358204470 411545 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think by some microloan programs as well < 1358204474 385380 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for general business transactions < 1358204478 440318 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should really do some of those microloan things when i get actual money < 1358204483 353197 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, it bypasses so much of the financial infrastructure normally necessary < 1358204519 770107 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The growth of the service forced formal banking institutions to take note of the new venture. In December 2008, a group of banks reportedly lobbied the Kenyan finance minister to audit M-Pesa, in an effort to at least slow the growth of the service. This ploy failed, as the audit found that the service was robust." oh cool < 1358204528 777225 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1358204573 90153 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the afghanistan bit is pretty sad though < 1358204591 141449 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, nice that it worked and all, but the previous situation, well. < 1358204623 906432 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/google < 1358204624 616888 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Google what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q='"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 4 'Search Results' | \ tail -n 2 < 1358204645 228212 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sleep 1; google M-Pesa < 1358204648 837161 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=%4d%2d%50%65%73%61' \ Alert!: Unable to access document. \ \ lynx: Can't access startfile < 1358204681 25485 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://google.com/search?q=m-pesa < 1358204683 171431 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=m-pesa: \ 2013-01-14 23:04:42 ERROR 403: Forbidden. < 1358204683 351515 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard that in Tanzania, people who are too poor to own cellphones, or live in places with no coverage, will still own SIM cards < 1358204697 724571 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they go into town they will ask random passers-by to borrow their phones and put the SIM in < 1358204709 739830 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is how they coordinate their errands < 1358204727 688978 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could sell a service renting cell phones out for a few minutes < 1358204736 700307 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a shop where you go in and pay a few cents and rent a cell phone to use your sim card with < 1358204758 249744 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you need cents. which is like having a whole other currency. < 1358204806 482892 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could even automate it. lock the phones via cable or something to a kiosk and have a place to insert coins < 1358204816 940415 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's called a telephone box, or something < 1358204825 720707 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I don't think those take sim cards :P < 1358204842 538888 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. phonebooth renaissance. not bad < 1358204884 585837 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in london most of them have got wifi already < 1358204900 940072 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sleep 5; google M-Pesa < 1358204908 329273 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=%4d%2d%50%65%73%61' \ Alert!: Unable to access document. \ \ lynx: Can't access startfile < 1358204928 593656 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1358204947 132774 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, why even keep the phone < 1358204967 687497 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose there's the cost and simplicity factor for that < 1358204972 652036 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it still needs network connectivity < 1358204991 739110 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: do you know why that doesn't work? i put in a sleep as you suggested previously, and opening the link shown from my browser _does_ work < 1358205003 551117 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in NYC phone booths are mostly used as impromptu urinals < 1358205023 5639 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't imported the dutch (?) innovation of the amazing freestanding one-piece moulded quad porti-urinal < 1358205040 549310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I think americans are too prudish to use one < 1358205058 179756 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably counts as public urination, legally < 1358205058 359448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You americans make NY sound *so* appealing. < 1358205059 878477 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not too prudish to piss in a phonebooth! < 1358205082 771053 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, here is new york in a nutshell: shops < 1358205089 281239 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :street after fucking street of shops < 1358205089 615181 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah well at that point you're drunk < 1358205102 123063 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I thought the portiurinals were for the drunk as well. < 1358205104 564552 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sploknee: uhm that's not all of NYC < 1358205120 81026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: sure, but you probably have to pretend otherwise < 1358205120 795135 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that was just wherever I read about them sanitizing it for us unpissy murkins. < 1358205124 878909 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, it was a family trip i couldn't go to the nonshop parts < 1358205129 698370 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sploknee: sucks < 1358205136 365484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was a kid < 1358205149 429733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I knew about NY was like the skylines and what the skyscrapers and shit looked like < 1358205152 861625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because of the perspective < 1358205164 551817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always looked like they were literally packed right up against each other so there's barely any space for a street < 1358205172 289645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of true < 1358205177 326033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my mental perception of NY was like < 1358205187 654274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely being able to fit a car between the buildings < 1358205215 407793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe this is actually true I have no idea what the city looks like beyond like Times Square) < 1358205216 399890 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was how cities worked in general. < 1358205218 102589 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1358205231 937446 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well NYC streets are wider than old city centers in Europe < 1358205243 731945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ug simple rural man. ug incapable of handling bigger cities than newcastle. ug sometimes incapable of handling newcastle) < 1358205246 153197 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still fairly narrow < 1358205249 76059 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, i thought in america you generally can't tell the middle of the city from the outskirts < 1358205257 415642 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each block does have a bunch of buildings right up against each other < 1358205262 814718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well edinburgh is okay < 1358205267 365550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the streets are wide in edinburgh right sploknee < 1358205274 75377 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sploknee: not for anything worthy of being called a city < 1358205281 718315 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, varies widely < 1358205296 814655 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm kind of sick of the idea that suburban sprawl is exclusively an american problem < 1358205300 425486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been to slough < 1358205304 890396 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is nicer than new jersey but only a little < 1358205308 656558 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you poor bastard < 1358205319 60394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes but do you have any famous poems about how terrible your sprawls are < 1358205326 456198 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1358205336 475874 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fairness that poem was written when slough was full of factories, not commuters < 1358205354 721146 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sploknee: as someone living in a metro area can i just say hahahahahaha, i can see cows from my house < 1358205401 791785 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can see cows you're not in a city < 1358205425 950814 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there are some hipsters in brooklyn raising cows in a loft apartment < 1358205430 28269 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might if you're in india < 1358205431 316715 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the next step after chickens < 1358205439 644058 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my rme textbooks were anything to go by < 1358205443 477901 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the town (not city) I'm not actually in the limits of actually has (controversial!) laws on the books about livestock in town, it's awesome < 1358205446 868006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway car-centric big city design kind of terrifies me < 1358205457 251550 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it sucks < 1358205468 773249 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NYC was spared the worst of Robert Moses's plans < 1358205473 940142 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, who was that one architect who was all pissed at cars... < 1358205480 864901 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wanted to put a huge elevated freeway on Canal St < 1358205481 575630 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the lady who was the anti-moses < 1358205484 192655 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is just something inhumanly hostile about the whole layout < 1358205491 240708 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another on 34th St that might possibly have gone through the Empire St Building < 1358205499 415365 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like the Big Dig? < 1358205504 961161 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole... plan < 1358205522 303971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a freeway through the building? < 1358205525 914223 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1358205529 728160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :americans... < 1358205530 208231 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have those in tokyo, don't they? < 1358205548 578248 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least highway exits or something < 1358205573 440857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite this I strangely like how tokyo looks for some reason actually. their urban hell has soft rounded corners < 1358205583 13739 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_and_Life_of_Great_American_Cities here's the thing i was thinking of! < 1358205583 762612 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also decided that there should be a beach for rich people and a beach for poor people, and built bridges over the road to the rich people beach so that buses couldn't get there < 1358205600 772698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wow < 1358205612 356952 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The modernist planners used deductive reasoning to find principles by which to plan cities. " i fucking love history < 1358205617 273738 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think urbanism in the US is on the upswing again < 1358205620 409497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: another day, another person to hate < 1358205634 145595 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :moses is an interesting guy, worth readin about < 1358205638 329431 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can hate with a direction i mean < 1358205645 547094 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't we have rich people beaches? < 1358205648 939151 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, they're called "country clubs" < 1358205660 560605 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in the country you idiot < 1358205676 726716 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: well the fucking over the poor is just going the extra mile, you know? < 1358205695 603449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :country clubs with artificial indoors beach < 1358205704 31354 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :country clubs are just "poors stay out", not "poors stay out also we shit on your lawn" < 1358205715 432906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :free lawn composting?!??! < 1358205718 299143 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to one once, it was in the suburbs in florida (visiting distant relatives <_<;) < 1358205721 283443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's communism < 1358205739 138457 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if it was a bald eagle doing the shitting, though < 1358205760 774750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :communist eagle < 1358205770 361445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably from the united states of soviet??? < 1358205792 523660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :USSR (United States of SovietR) < 1358205844 753619 :oerjan!50cadc4c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.202.220.76 QUIT : < 1358205862 624313 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :united socialist socialist reds < 1358205870 894387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1358205875 586941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why are you using webchat. oh < 1358205891 703724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. < 1358205902 270601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nvg did a server upgrade) < 1358205906 80690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think it would be interesting to have a city designed around not having any roads and instead having ubiquitous access to underground (or overground?????) rail instead < 1358205913 333894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably this is already a "thing" < 1358205930 141629 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think rail basically sucks for last mile freight deliveries and the like < 1358205945 598035 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cars are undeniably useful, it wouldn't be socially optimal to exclude them completely everywhere < 1358205945 836827 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard milwaukee has some coolness in that regard, in that you can walk everywhere even though it's fucking freezing because they have tunnels and skybridges everywhere < 1358205981 386754 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cars / trucks i mean < 1358205989 921489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well side-effects are useful too < 1358205992 306501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :call me a purist < 1358205994 451053 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1358206017 713685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can learn things about the ideal middle-ground solution by going to the very extreme < 1358206021 145359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*extremes < 1358206022 810428 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, they have municipal wireless too. maybe i should live there as long as i'm being an american < 1358206023 47187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love side-effects < 1358206024 952847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1358206025 905333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also most cities have surface public transit as well, be it buses or trams < 1358206046 398751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm told I should read "The Power Broker"; should I? < 1358206049 757595 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm not sure, it's just as easy to set up strawmen and knock them down < 1358206054 431751 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've heard it's good but I haven't read it. < 1358206092 65253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, robert caro < 1358206109 341722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know about him is he has this billion-book biography of lyndon b johnson < 1358206111 759428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who I know nothing about) < 1358206117 585430 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you set up a carless city in the US you'd be mocked as a hippie and disregarded. Presumably the analogy here is to trying to popularize the IO monad (instead of usual programming) in C. < 1358206127 389357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well maybe if you read the biography you would know......................... < 1358206131 21162 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it depends where in the US < 1358206138 994772 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some areas are quite receptive to it < 1358206150 43130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the USA is a huge heterogenous country < 1358206160 960673 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i live near one of the more carless cities here and i don't think they'd go for /completely/ carless < 1358206168 687399 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the degree to which values differ by geographical location is increasing, I believe < 1358206171 79837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- BORING < 1358206175 842516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* the predictae you pass has to be an equivalence relation <-- BORING < 1358206178 737372 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably < 1358206182 576185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*predicate < 1358206184 41974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- BORING < 1358206189 150187 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm honestly sort of afraid of the south sometimes. i am the reverse racist?? < 1358206197 187133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nubBy (((>1).).gcd)[2..] < 1358206199 112834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101... < 1358206209 742471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was a quote from the docs btw < 1358206222 534099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1358206225 492427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1358206228 208882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i like me some casual america-hating too < 1358206236 747350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: but I also like america-hating-hating when annoying people do it < 1358206247 391475 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott will hate anything. < 1358206248 195276 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't we all? < 1358206255 569703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance europeans. the only people worse than americans < 1358206258 235071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam two-in-one < 1358206273 564960 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, classist < 1358206273 746148 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i do live here, i know they're not zombie evil ghosts or anything, but it's still pretty fucking sad to read about texas textbooks or whatever < 1358206290 121565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about hexham people < 1358206291 548673 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alabama juvie farms < 1358206307 830697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well they are zombie evil ghosts < 1358206318 283300 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1358206318 690995 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are zombie goasts < 1358206331 638932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombie goatse < 1358206369 779804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's mainly that I hate cars < 1358206376 506597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't have any desire to drive one < 1358206386 543815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore roads are completely extraneous for me except for buses and I like trains more than buses! < 1358206387 822113 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about bikes < 1358206398 792492 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo bikes < 1358206400 296117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bikes are pretty good but I am terrible at riding bikes < 1358206411 289960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you need roads as we know them to support bikes though < 1358206417 885326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love bikes they are so easy < 1358206428 948928 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sighchaf < 1358206436 514111 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :car roads kind of work against bikes, really, if the sanfran bloggers i follow are any indication < 1358206448 532278 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SF roads are pretty big and scary compared to, say, Boston roads < 1358206449 121464 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You don't have a proper appreciation for this. < 1358206458 15581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SF has weird streets. < 1358206466 817383 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even understand it?? < 1358206468 43271 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boston roads are all twisty and messy and so the cars don't go fast or with much confidence < 1358206471 407990 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After making his getaway on the bulldozer, he had driven so slowly that a 5km tailback built up behind him on the motorway." oh so that's the answer to that question < 1358206471 888919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you just had really wide streets < 1358206476 564404 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SF has a kind of "damn the hills" street grid with big streets < 1358206478 526389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like it could work for bikes < 1358206478 734098 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: boston drivers are crazed jerks though < 1358206482 687534 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1358206512 915658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read once an argument that suggested we should just get rid of the street/road division and force drivers to drive carefully because there are people everywhere or something < 1358206517 534462 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1358206518 168905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the details < 1358206539 455022 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it would be hard to sustain because big metal box is going to be better at intimidation than people < 1358206545 259441 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some cities have those areas < 1358206557 32925 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pedestrians have the right of way everywhere, don't they? (i mean, not that drivers necessarily care, but) < 1358206563 38933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird that there are no "old cities" in the US. < 1358206577 772943 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :old cities how? < 1358206585 230217 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Older than a couple of hundred years, I mean. < 1358206598 145964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well I am not really interested in the law < 1358206600 294558 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, we killed all the people who had been here for hundreds of years. < 1358206623 715597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't believe much law-following goes on on roads anyway < 1358206644 202775 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :back later < 1358206647 894845 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but then how do you get drivers to stop doing... all those shitty driver things < 1358206655 376074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well first you kill them < 1358206666 338078 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensible. < 1358206678 668272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more seriously I don't think a law that drivers have to start being reasonable would cause drivers to actually start being reasonable < 1358206697 124890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see any viable way to enforce road law < 1358206704 52717 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, of course not, we have those already. nobody actually follows all the laws, in the US anyway. < 1358206722 255344 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? they are so easy < 1358206727 402234 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stopchaf < 1358206736 964716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1358206741 996080 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf what is going on < 1358206753 777944 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has beaky addiction. < 1358206763 505084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is doing the thing where you quote someone you think is a troll in #esoteric a lot < 1358206764 676217 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is beak < 1358206772 834265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I heard that beaky was in ##c < 1358206784 284495 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1358206794 25134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:07 also ho damn beaky is in ##c. < 1358206805 926466 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:39 [freenode] -!- There is no such nick beaky < 1358206812 667342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm undecided as to whether beaky is a troll. < 1358206828 572190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do love quoting beaky. It... < 1358206843 481059 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. no shachaf. nochaf < 1358206883 809777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:07:16: "i love switch statements" < 1358206886 791614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's pretty good < 1358206900 317728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://slbkbs.org/beaky.txt < 1358206923 15638 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "but sometimes they get too big" "especially when I have lots of types" < 1358206942 62506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: polymorphic switch < 1358206961 520341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Is PoppaVic still around? < 1358206972 547917 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ##c? i see someone by that name, yes < 1358206982 64909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess no then, if you don't know who that is. < 1358206982 244704 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today the only person i particularly talked to was I-Love-Boobies, though < 1358206992 27108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so easy < 1358206992 741064 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me, I think! < 1358206999 732925 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i talk to you seemingly everywhere < 1358207009 922080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :##c is awful. < 1358207017 162695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, was awful last time I was in it. < 1358207020 572661 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: googling the name got me a 4chan thread. I am thinking I will not google any more. < 1358207024 422300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it less awful now? < 1358207052 858958 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it managed to teach me a lot of things about the more anal points of pointer arithmetic in standard C. But I didn't know much C to begin with. < 1358207077 955490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Seems like the go-to explanation of PoppaVic is down. < 1358207091 988356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love pointer arithmetic. < 1358207095 321955 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, somebody just asked why they couldn't use ++ in arr[idx++] = 0. < 1358207097 520334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Points like what? < 1358207117 530433 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: UPDATE: The exact code is arr[(*idx)++] = 0 < 1358207119 992113 :Phantom__Hoover!~sploknee@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1358207123 351059 :sploknee!~sploknee@137.205.52.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1358207124 94550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo arr and idx are pretty bad variable names < 1358207136 649435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@arr < 1358207136 829638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shiver me timbers! < 1358207146 275471 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that if you have whatever x[5], x+5 is defined (but you can't dereference it), x+6 is not, and *((x+6)-2) is also not. < 1358207163 428387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't really see any viable way to enforce road law <-- reminds me of this apocryphical story about the norwegian supreme court justice who was asked if he'd ever broken the law. "Well, I do have a car!" < 1358207169 410495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Hmm, I didn't know that last one. Are you sure? < 1358207176 476342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about: *(x + 6 + (-2)) < 1358207188 337547 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with parentheses around either group. < 1358207214 24047 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Fairly sure. Don't know about that; maybe the implementation is allowed to fold arithmetic as it wants if it's associative though. < 1358207215 251510 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I see, actually. < 1358207280 771963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you take https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/the_ksplice_pointer_challenge ? < 1358207284 146526 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's associative if overflow can occur? < 1358207287 574046 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure... < 1358207302 150898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another puzzle: https://gist.github.com/1454460 < 1358207312 991688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I think I gave that person that puzzle. < 1358207332 295875 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does this program print? <-- behavior of %p isn't defined enough to say :P < 1358207378 815571 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1358207383 614828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like Oracle broke it. < 1358207437 19514 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you can help, find us on #sicp @ EFnet. We will be attacking ##c on Freenode soon enough. Expect us." ok, this poppavic guy may be hilarious. < 1358207468 599989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I found that same thread googling to try and find the link I wanted and I am pretty sure that is some idiot who talked to PoppaVic rather than PoppaVic? < 1358207478 316886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it looks like the page is gone and not even the Internet Archive has it. < 1358207482 129274 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but by association, you see. < 1358207484 790072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP in peace. < 1358207556 916556 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointer challenge was posted post-oracle < 1358207641 491110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it? < 1358207645 216194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have it mixed up, then. < 1358207654 686804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway why am I still here? < 1358207671 149100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to be going a while ago. :-( < 1358207671 389419 :Phantom__Hoover!~sploknee@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1358207695 102849 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-194-144.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate leaving, it's so sweet and sorrowful < 1358207781 639879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if *(x + (6-2)) is undefined behavior, then so is *((x + 6) + (-2)), so an implementation would always be _allowed_ to rewrite the latter to the former, i think. < 1358207817 448483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you can't leave until you figure out these functions < 1358207825 333195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott.......... < 1358207828 975776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm leaving now. < 1358207832 586355 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back later?