00:00:40 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:10:17 -!- FreeFull has quit. 00:23:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:28:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:33:02 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:44:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:49:35 `list 00:49:36 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 00:55:58 -!- variable has joined. 00:57:19 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 00:59:19 protip: Hold it down 01:35:35 Sgeo: thank you for the protip 01:35:37 much appreciated 01:35:46 yw 01:35:57 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 01:38:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:39:24 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:46:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:55:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:05:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:05:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:13:46 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 02:20:35 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:30:24 -!- monqy has joined. 02:38:53 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:39:32 Here's another qdb but it's all centered around elliottcable's channel 02:39:32 http://elliottcablechan.tumblr.com/ 02:39:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:40:44 -!- monqy has joined. 02:40:58 Oh also FireFly 02:41:11 `quote FireFly 02:41:12 15) Meh ._. \ 59) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies \ 861) FireFly: oh, did you see ion's police reindeer? that was ... at least as on-topic as this discussion 02:41:18 `quote shachaf 02:41:19 543) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 584) Real Tar is GNU tar. You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 618) VMS Mosaic? I hope that's no 02:41:37 Those are pretty awful quotes. 02:41:43 I have some good quotes somewhere! 02:42:08 `quachaf 02:42:09 543) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 584) Real Tar is GNU tar. You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 618) VMS Mosaic? I hope that's no 02:42:20 i went to add this command and then noticed it was already there! 02:42:41 It should randomize rather than grepping. 02:42:47 This way you always get the same quotes. 02:42:53 `queegan 02:42:54 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: queegan: not found 02:43:00 `hatesgeo 02:43:25 ...it hates me. 02:43:28 `run cp bin/qu{achaf,eegan}; sed -i s/shachaf/kmc/ bin/queegan 02:43:41 `queegan 02:43:53 I guess HackEgo is dead. 02:44:03 No output. 02:44:04 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: queegan: not found 02:44:06 No output. 02:44:21 `queegan 02:44:22 602) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 633) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. \ 704) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN \ 707) has there been any work towards designing programming l 02:44:48 `quote 707 02:44:50 707) has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people 02:45:00 Agda? 02:59:16 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:05:55 "A tier one investment bank urgently requires a senior c#.net agile developer to join an agile team focused on the delivarance of a key global intiative within the securities / multi assett and client services space. " 03:06:11 Employers expect resumes to be spell-checked but can put out drivel like that? 03:06:39 such is the relation of the oppressor to the oppressed. 03:06:39 sorry, but C# is not a tier one esolang 03:07:10 "Therefore the following skills are a must have to even be conssidered; c#, .net, sql server, agile, tdd, pair programming, leadership, oo and multithreading..." 03:07:27 can we topic "a must have to even be conssidered" 03:07:42 also, how many ranks do you have to have in leadership? 12? 03:07:47 I have a feeling whoever wrote that doesn't know what any of those terms mean, even "leadership" 03:08:26 Oh hey I can post a link that works without needing to be logged in 03:08:26 http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=4576873&goback=%2Enmp_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1_*1&trk=rj_nus 03:09:16 great URL 03:09:21 A++++ would click again 03:09:46 "This is a fantastic oppertunity to be a part of a key intiative for a greenfield global project for one of the worlds leading investment banks within a dynamic and cutting edge environment!" do you ever wonder how much of this is just by rote 03:09:54 markov chain maybe 03:10:03 like they don't really know how to construct a sentence except by tying together set phrases? Moreso than you or me do, I mean. 03:10:05 They spelled initiative the same way twice 03:12:33 i think that's pretty common. 03:12:46 i wonder if they have courses on the precise nature of common errors. i'd take 'em 03:13:18 " We operate across multiple sectors with specialist expert consultants within each sector who have an in depth understanding of their market place." sgeo, any chance of an interesting job for you, or what? 03:14:08 leverage those paradigms 03:14:15 This isn't the company that contacted me, btw 03:14:44 yeah, but the other one sounded about the same. something something recruitment something paradigms something 03:15:02 I think that other one was recruiting me for a job at a bank 03:15:15 Not that I'd actually work for the recruiter 03:15:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:15:41 it seemed like you would, but eh. 03:16:14 http://www.jefferies.com/ <-- company that the job opening is for 03:27:44 :P 03:27:56 gn people 03:57:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:12:33 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:26:15 do you think that all the fundamental kinds of food have already been invented 04:26:30 will there ever be another food invention as game changing as the sandwich or the pizza 04:26:34 i'm not stoned i swear 04:27:00 all futurology is bunk. even when it's pizza-oriented futurology. 04:28:12 I don't know, and I also don't know how to guess. 04:28:24 zzo38 is the honest futurologist 04:28:34 i can appreciate that. good on ya, zzo. 04:29:09 zzo38++ 04:30:08 I hope people will invent proper tasteless nutritious goo one of these days. 04:30:14 Or is there already such a thing? 04:30:28 I don't think we've quite hit bachelor chow yet. 04:31:11 now with flavor! 04:34:19 I'd imagine the next game-changing food, if any, will come somewhere you least expect. 04:34:48 Something like animals genetically engineered to be delicious and 100% edible sans preperation. 04:35:21 yeah 04:35:24 If you don't expect it, then how can you expect it? 04:35:27 or vat-grown meat that isn't disgusting 04:35:44 i mean there have been many recent advances in processing and packaging and such 04:35:52 but i'm thinking of something somewhat different 04:36:00 I don't think animals that cooked themselves alive would be very practical. 04:36:01 a fundamentally new genre of food 04:36:02 Things I actually expect: vat-grown meat, and high-level irradiation. 04:36:22 It is utterly feasible to have shelf-stable meat. 04:36:31 However, the irradiation necessary is illegal unless you're NASA. 04:36:47 maybe those molecular gastronomists will discover something with mass appeal eventually 04:37:20 * pikhq wants shelf-stable sushi. 04:38:19 I don't think sushi made out of horses would be very popular. 04:38:40 Horse sashimi is a thing. 04:38:51 Eat people who are in the "food jail". 04:38:54 Perhaps I'm wrong. 04:39:07 zzo38: What is the "food jail"? 04:39:21 shachaf: I don't know; that is why it is quotation marks. 04:39:57 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Horse-meat.jpg Japan, ladies and gentlemen. 04:40:10 `addquote Eat people who are in the "food jail". 04:40:14 927) Eat people who are in the "food jail". 04:40:24 `pastequotes 04:40:28 looks pretty good. 04:40:28 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11716 04:41:40 pacific northwest tree octopus continues to be the best animal 04:45:28 zzo38: You say the best things. 04:46:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:46:46 I am not the only one who says things; a lot of people do. But yes, I do too. It is you can write quotation of me and of other people too, they do that all the time. 04:47:07 `pastequotes itidus20 04:47:11 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:47:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25573 04:47:14 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 04:49:40 Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. Nash failed to create a "video game theory" <-- the guy's got a point 04:49:45 did he get banned, or just evaporate? 04:50:22 I don't think he got banned. 04:50:30 How does getting banned from #esoteric work? 04:50:54 I gather you have to be elliott? I'm not sure. 04:52:07 Bike: Were you even around while itidus21 was around? 04:52:21 No, that's why I'm asking. 04:52:51 If I'm not familiar with all of the channel's mythology, it will be me on the pyre come next equinox. And I'd rather avoid that. 04:58:37 Maybe we could make up "Esoteric IRC Quotation Guessing Quiz" on Internet Quiz Engine. 04:59:10 (It doesn't have to be entirely the HackEgo quotations file) 05:00:58 (Anyways, there is a limit of 210 question slots (a time limit takes up four slots).) 05:16:59 zzo38: Why not remove the limit? 05:17:53 shachaf: To avoid buffer overflow, I don't remove the limit, however, I might increase it in another time, but I also might not. 05:19:33 Can't you increase it dynamically? 05:19:47 The limit is not actually part of Internet Quiz Engine; it is actually a limit in the gopher server, but I can increase that easily. However, I don't want to increase it too much. Also, it takes up space of environment variable too. 05:20:37 -!- evincar has joined. 05:22:52 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:27:45 How long do you want it? 05:28:49 Can't you increase it dynamically? 05:28:57 Anyway I don't use Gopher, so I can't use it. 05:29:00 No! 05:29:08 I don't want to increase it dynamically! 05:29:34 Why not? 05:29:51 I don't want any buffer overflow and computer overflow. 05:30:28 Computer overflow? That sounds dangerous. 05:30:30 What is it? 05:34:36 * quintopia hands zzo38 the philosopher's stone 05:34:46 it turns wood to RAM 05:34:54 no overflow issue ever again! 05:35:08 well...until you run out of trees 05:35:23 zzo38: I want 1048576 items. 05:37:10 -!- azaq23 has joined. 05:37:18 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 05:53:13 python's 'for..else' is nice, but i wonder if it's one of those features which is obscure enough that code using it is automatically obfuscated 05:53:24 how's it work? 05:55:32 for n in range(2, 100): 05:55:32 for d in range(2, n): 05:55:32 if not n % d: break 05:55:32 else: 05:55:32 print n, 'is a prime number' 05:56:02 the stuff in the 'else' block only runs if the 'for' block ran to exhaustion, but not if it executed 'break' 05:56:22 why is it "else", then... 05:56:50 "else" means "if you didn't break"? 05:57:46 It should be "if the block was never evaluated". :( 05:57:50 reminds me that i should try to figure out how the hell good primality tests work 05:58:08 Wrote a language once where "if", "while", "for", etc. returned booleans for just that reason. 05:58:12 apparently you need to actually know math :( 05:59:22 evincar: oh, that's neat 05:59:48 And else was just a thing that used the boolean result of the previous expression? 06:05:50 https://bitbucket.org/kxz/omnipresence/src/ebcd9e54aed61025ff7778909b4a67485b26743d/omnipresence/__init__.py?at=default#cl-156 Seems pretty reasonable to me, kmc, though that might only be because i just had it explained. 06:18:39 shachaf: Yeah, same with elsif. 06:18:59 The whole thing was done as an operator precedence parser though... 06:19:10 ...in C++ before I really understood parsers. 06:19:15 Not good. 06:21:38 the meaning of 'for .. else' is not that easy to figure out if you haven't seen it 06:22:03 guess that's why there's a comment 06:22:15 It seems intuitively like it should be what evincar said. 06:22:29 There's no real analogy to if-else here, is there? 06:22:58 Nope, but the real question is what a better keyword would be. 06:23:00 i'm having trouble comingc up with one 06:23:09 i,i 'finally' 06:23:47 But "finally" implies "always" because exceptions. 06:24:05 "then:" :D 06:24:28 :P 06:25:20 Using a keyword for something because it's already a reserved word in the syntax is a time-honored tradition. 06:26:32 also if i was doing that, i think i'd have the break in the for return from a lexical block, and have the "else" code just after the foor in the same block. but that's probably not remotely idiomatic python. 06:27:52 Does Python have a thing for blocks? 06:28:08 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:28:29 I think you could hack it with a lambda expression and "return", but that puts us squarely in wildly unidiomatic territory. 06:29:53 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:30:19 -!- ogrom has joined. 06:30:28 shachaf: it's a tradition in C++ for sure 06:30:30 don't know about Python 06:30:45 but then C++ went and added a few new keywords that aren't in C and are almost never used 06:30:48 just because they could 06:31:14 kmc: new is used pretty often. 06:31:16 it's good to be a coder, man. 06:31:22 ;P shachaf 06:31:46 also, kmc, i don't know if you still care about kernel but i see what you mean about the thesis. 06:32:10 Heuristically, the profundity of a truth is proportional to how difficult it was to discover the first time, divided by how obvious it is once successfully explained. While some truths only have to be uncovered to become obvious, others may have a lucid explanation that is even more difficult to find that the truth itself was. If there exists a lucid explanation, the difficulty of finding it should be counted in the numerator of the heuristic. 06:32:16 oh wow they actually removed the 'export' keyword in C++11?? 06:32:17 totally relevant. 06:32:24 because basically nobody even implemented it 06:32:37 but maybe it's still a reserved word? 06:32:38 what did it do? 06:33:06 "The export keyword is a bit like the Higgs boson of C++. Theoretically it exists, it is described by the standard, and noone has seen it in the wild." or, not do. 06:33:30 separate compilation for templates 06:34:35 IIRC precisely one vendor implemented it. 06:35:13 Yup. Comeau. 06:39:57 haha nice disclaimer: http://software.intel.com/sites/default/files/m/0/1/3/opt-notice-en_080411.gif 06:40:08 i guess they added this after the controversy 06:40:21 where somebody discovered that icc basically treats every AMD chip as a 386 in terms of code generation 06:40:30 -_- 06:48:16 Seems fairly anticompetitive. 06:48:38 In the "seriously, we've broken companies into several bits for this shit before" sense. 06:49:28 have we? 06:49:31 have we? i'm not sure there's an applicable precedent... 06:49:42 intel doesn't have a monopoly either on chips or on compilers 06:49:50 they aren't abusing monopoly power 06:50:24 in general there is no obligation to make your products work nicely with competitors' 06:50:46 while that's true, there is an obligation not to sabotage interoperability 06:50:51 is there? legally? 06:50:57 in most countries, yes 06:51:00 interesting 06:51:08 They've been on the receiving end of antitrust suits before, actually... 06:52:30 well icc still does emit working code for amd, right? 06:52:37 Technically, yes. 06:53:01 got to sleep, ttyl all 06:53:03 i guess the thing i'm wondering is if there's a precedent for making a thing that works well with your own thing and not well with the other people's thing being a bad thing. 06:53:30 However, in that case it's strictly inferior to any compiler you can find out there, TCC included. 06:53:52 Outside of antitrust suits, probably not. 06:54:14 What's the precedent in antitrust suits? 06:54:33 Given that doing this outside of that context is about as intelligent as taking out your profits in cash and spreading them through Central Park. 06:55:40 Bike: Programming languages that can't interop with other languages tend to be unpopular... 06:55:49 ...if unpopular = bad, then there's one. 06:55:56 evincar: He was asking for legal precedent I think. 06:56:12 Yes. 06:56:25 And there's no legal precedent for that, for similar reasons why there's not legal precedent for the badness of jamming a finger in your eye. 06:56:53 Well hey, the purpose of case law is to riddle out the supposedly obvious, yeah? 06:57:05 Unless you approach a monopoly you wouldn't even *want to* do this. 06:57:38 As it'd be making an inferior product. 06:59:37 evincar: I should implement a type checker, eh? 07:00:10 Does anyone know the name of the character that's an F but backwards? This is going to bother me. 07:00:20 Bike: http://shapecatcher.com/ ? 07:00:32 I'm knee-deep in Phoenician and I believe I have taken a wrong term. 07:00:33 turn 07:00:33 Latin epigraphic letter reversed f: ꟻ 07:00:42 Canadian syllabics blackfoot wa: ᖷ 07:00:45 Nko letter pa: ߔ 07:00:46 Etc. 07:00:56 Bike: It's totally a Neverhood tile, too! 07:00:57 That's a neat thing. 07:01:00 Remember the bridge puzzle? 07:01:07 I never played that game, unfortunately. 07:01:30 Oh, it's in Greek music, cool. 07:01:52 Maybe I should just accept that reading metamathematics papers by a linguistics nerd was a bad idea. 07:02:24 shachaf: Everybody should implement a type checker, eh. 07:02:29 What brings this up? 07:02:43 Well, I haven't. 07:04:14 Oh...haven't implemented a typechecker. 07:04:34 I spent a full minute puzzling over why you would say you hadn't brought up something you had. 07:04:43 * evincar is a smart 07:05:33 Well, you brought it up, actually. 07:05:55 But it's the type checker I hadn't implemented. 07:07:44 I have no idea what we're talking about but will roll with it nonetheless. 07:07:59 What kind of language is it that you haven't implemented a typechecker for? 07:08:51 Every kind of language. 07:09:36 Okay, but did you have one in mind? 07:18:27 Is there a limit for environment variables length? 07:18:57 4.33 units maximum. 07:21:15 @localtime zzo38 07:21:16 Local time for zzo38 is 2013/01/22 23:14:25 -0800 07:23:10 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:25:32 I have increase the number of questions slots to 999, which should be sufficient; although there are limits for questions, choices, and number of variables to keep track of, even the old limits are much higher than other online quizzes. 07:25:35 -!- ogrom has joined. 07:26:03 (You can also download it into your own computer if you prefer it.) 07:26:56 Can I have 1048576? 07:27:17 If you want that much, run it on your own computer. 07:27:34 What if I don't have a computer? 07:27:40 It is fully free-software/open-source-software and is written in C. 07:27:50 If you don't have a computer, then don't write the message on the IRC, please. 07:28:11 What if my computer doesn't have 1048576 units of RAM? 07:28:11 I think that's a burn, shachaf. 07:30:13 The program never allocates that much RAM, but the environment variables have to support whatever you are using. 07:30:44 I have to say, I have no idea how environment variables are involved in a Gopher-based internet quiz program, but then I don't know much about Gopher or quizzes. 07:31:03 Bike: You should learn Haskell! 07:31:06 It's so much fun, man. 07:31:18 How is it fun? 07:31:19 Are we doing that again? 07:31:20 You'll understand all the crazy things crazy people say in here much better. 07:31:25 Evangelising Haskell? 07:31:30 Computer science is an eternal parade of sorrow. 07:31:33 I've been away for too long. 07:31:52 evincar: If it helps, apparently it's not working, because I still don't know Haskell. 07:32:01 Or Lens. Or Caleskell, or Agda. Or Clojure. 07:32:01 You will. 07:32:05 I got converted. 07:32:08 My server also has a file size limit of one million bytes, so you also have to run the program on your own computer if you want to write hundreds of long pages of text on the quiz. 07:32:11 Now my JOB is to write Haskell. 07:32:20 This channel has seriously fucked up my life. 07:32:24 Having a job doesn't seem like a bad outcome, honestly. 07:32:29 Hey you. 07:32:32 evincar: Bike was asking questions about implementation details of GHC. 07:32:48 Yeah, but that's actually because I was wondering about the term "static typing". 07:33:04 Bike: Yes, learn of Haskell, and of the mathematics, and so on, to know what some of our questions are. 07:33:08 I'm in this strange place where I know what "sum type" means but don't actually use any ML-family language regularly. 07:33:20 okay so like 07:33:21 do 07:33:27 Or do not? 07:33:31 no no 07:33:32 do 07:33:39 There is no do not. 07:33:41 Am I being punked? 07:33:44 Bike: It's "pretty cool imo, honestly". 07:34:18 Haskell made me forget how to program kinda. 07:34:20 Yes, there is the sum type, product type, exponent type, and sometime we even try to think of logarithm type and so on but perhaps there is none of that. But, there is the derivative of type, though! 07:34:24 yes, i know haskell is cool, i just don't want to bother setting up an environment and learning what libraries to use and bla bla bla when I hardly program anyway and I can just sit in my hovel reading books. 07:34:31 What is the derivative of type, zzo38. 07:34:35 I went to write some C++ and realised I hadn't done, like, IO. 07:34:37 In a while. 07:34:46 Bike: A zipper. 07:34:47 Bike: I tried to explain it to you once, but you got bored. 07:34:53 Ok. 07:34:54 Bike: It's the thing with the holes. 07:34:58 It's not quite a zipper, but it's related. 07:35:01 Bike: It is the same like derivative of numbers, but in some cases you can't due to no predecessor types and that stuff 07:35:04 Yeah. 07:35:06 One step at a time. 07:35:15 Since when do numbers have derivatives? 07:35:16 Bike: You don't really need to learn libraries to benefit from Haskell, though. 07:35:31 oh no? 07:35:36 Nope. 07:36:34 But the libraries are so nice. 07:37:02 Some of them. 07:37:06 Hackage is no CPAN, but it is good. 07:37:12 On the whole. 07:37:50 sorry, that was supposed to imply "how do i benefit from haskell if i can't write using libraries" 07:38:11 But you can though? 07:38:31 You benefit by it, like, changing the way you think and stuff, man!! 07:38:37 If there aren't bindings for some library you like, you can make them. 07:39:01 I think I already got that, shachaf. I have a copy of TAPL and a couple papers I don't understand downloaded. 07:39:16 Plus the answers to my questions about how call/cc works in haskell and bla bla bla. 07:39:20 I haven't read TaPL. 07:39:32 Anyway, your way of thinking hasn't yet been changed. 07:39:34 I can tell. 07:39:37 It's "pretty cool, imo" 07:39:47 How can you tell, shachaf? 07:39:55 I just can, man. 07:39:59 Don't question it!! 07:40:11 I bet it's because I wrote the Scheme name for call/cc instead of making a convoluted joke involving Oleg. 07:40:14 monqy: do you logread? 07:40:16 Actually call/cc works in Haskell is like Peirce's law of classical logic. 07:40:43 yeah, i don't get the types-logic correspondence, honestly. 07:40:55 Explore it. 07:40:56 i'm kind of ok with that because I'm shitty at logic anyhow. 07:40:57 It goes pretty deep. 07:41:06 and nothing i want to do academically is that related to it. 07:41:27 Like "oh hey, I can look at this function's type and know that there is no possible implementation of it which is total". 07:41:30 But I'm just a dumb kid anyway. What do I know. 07:41:31 "This type is a lying fucker." 07:41:50 What would such a type be? 07:42:01 It is with intuitionistic logic, and then if you use continuations, make classical logic. 07:42:07 Like, say, head :: [a] -> a 07:42:08 @quote kmc Int 07:42:08 kmc says: i don't expect that the "write code that doesn't suck pattern" can ever be made into a library 07:42:15 @quote kmc exist 07:42:15 kmc says: "Haskell is great, because Curry-Howard! Proving things in the type system. We can prove that, uh, Ints exist, unless they're ⊥." 07:42:36 Such as () -> Zero if () is a unit type and Zero is uninhabited type. 07:42:39 Ints are nice. It's nice to know that they exist. 07:42:47 Which is the same as ([a] or []) implies a, which is clearly false 07:43:08 So, I know that a function that can't return a value can't return a value? 07:43:23 Sure, so it has to throw an exception or something. 07:43:41 For example. 07:43:56 But it is also, using function type as exponents, pairs as products, Either as sums, even so id :: Zero -> Zero just as zero to the power of zero equals one. 07:44:18 0^0 doesn't always equal one... what kind of heresies does Haskell teach!! 07:44:40 Bike: It does. 07:44:51 I know some say it doesn't, but in many cases, I see, I think that certainly 0^0=1 is correct. 07:45:30 "only sometimes" 07:45:37 but whatever that's not very serious of me 07:45:51 (The TI-92 calculator will make 0^0=1 but will display a warning) 07:45:55 Bike: I used to be a disbeliever. 07:46:04 In what, exponents/ 07:46:05 Also given a function type I'm pretty sure you can recursively enumerate possible implementations of that function. 07:46:28 evincar: I think I once wrote that for some cases. 07:46:34 I know there's a Haskell thing that will generate *some* implementation given a type. 07:46:45 Isn't there a lambdabot function for that? 07:46:49 (Nat -> Bool) has uncountably many inhabitants!! 07:46:50 It has a ridiculous name 07:47:04 No, I mean that for some function types, makes a list of all function of that type. 07:47:17 djinn 07:47:20 Djinn 07:47:22 Yeah. 07:47:22 @djinn a -> [a] 07:47:22 Error: Undefined type [] 07:47:23 Yeah, that one. 07:47:27 Thanks lambdabot. 07:47:29 @djinn a -> (a,a) 07:47:29 f a = (a, a) 07:47:34 @djinn a -> Maybe a 07:47:34 f = Just 07:47:45 @djinn [a] -> a 07:47:45 Error: Undefined type [] 07:47:48 @djinn a -> Maybe b 07:47:48 f _ = Nothing 07:47:52 @djinn Maybe a -> a 07:47:52 -- f cannot be realized. 07:47:56 @djinn Maybe a -> [a] 07:47:56 Error: Undefined type [] 07:47:56 @djinn () -> Botton 07:47:57 Error: Undefined type Botton 07:48:01 :( 07:48:03 bottom. well, whatever 07:48:07 i has a dumb 07:48:10 Anyway. 07:48:10 @djinn Maybe a -> List a 07:48:10 Error: Undefined type List 07:48:15 @djinn-env 07:48:15 data () = () 07:48:15 data Either a b = Left a | Right b 07:48:15 data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a 07:48:15 data Bool = False | True 07:48:15 data Void 07:48:15 ...ok. 07:48:17 type Not x = x -> Void 07:48:19 class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b 07:48:21 class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool 07:48:23 data Cont r a = Cont ((a -> r) -> r) 07:48:26 Bike: Lists are very boring from the perspective of Djinn. 07:48:35 I'm sorry you feel that way, djinn. 07:48:55 All this talk of djinn and all I have is vodka. 07:49:06 There's no Y combinator for types, is there? 07:49:09 anyway i'm not a disbeliever. I just don't care that much, is all. 07:49:29 Sgeo: that would require a type that is also a kind, and so on, no? 07:49:42 I don't think so. 07:49:59 It would require a TC typechecker to evaluate a type-expression to a fixed point, obviously. 07:50:03 No idea, I just want to know if it's possible to encode the type of a list in djinn, and since I don't think the type in question can be named 07:50:10 Obviously. 07:50:23 Hey. 07:50:29 I like being in a channel where that is "obviously". 07:50:35 Or obviously *enough*. 07:50:36 :D 07:51:02 I do like watching people talk about neat things. 07:51:03 Sgeo: ? 07:51:19 What do you mean by Y combinator? 07:51:35 Specifically the implementation of Y, or just any fixed-point combinator? 07:51:39 ANy 07:51:59 newtype Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)) 07:52:00 What's wrong with newtype Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f))? 07:52:46 My only goal is to get djinn to understand types. Naming a new type doesn't help with that as far as I see 07:53:02 I'm pretty sure djinn understands types better than most humans. 07:53:05 @djinn-add newtype Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)) 07:53:05 Cannot parse command 07:53:09 @djinn-add data Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)) 07:53:09 Error: Recursive types are not allowed: Fix 07:53:11 *lists 07:53:11 Aw. 07:53:22 oh 07:53:34 I take it that's a no-go on the List thing then 07:53:48 Recursive types are boring from Djinn's perspective. 07:53:55 @djinn-add data List a = Nil | (a, List a) 07:53:56 Cannot parse command 07:54:06 That's broken syntax anyway. 07:54:06 Do they support quantified types? 07:54:09 Djinn's kind of picky, isn't it. 07:54:15 But you should give up now because it's pointless. 07:54:18 * shachaf , motivational speaker 07:54:26 @djinn-add data List a = Nil | List (a, List a) 07:54:26 Error: Recursive types are not allowed: List 07:54:36 Bike: A Haskell compiler also wouldn't accept that, because it's invalid syntax. 07:54:45 Does Djinn always choose the least implementation? 07:54:47 zzo38: Quantified as in rank-2? 07:54:50 For some ordering on implementations. 07:54:51 Syntax is boring from my perspective, amirite 07:54:55 shachaf: Yes, and rank-N 07:54:57 evincar: It tries to use as many variables as it can. 07:54:59 -!- ejnahc has joined. 07:55:00 zzo38: Nope. 07:56:00 What Djinn does is impossible for rank-2 types. 07:56:11 And EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBLE for rank-n types. 07:56:16 So, in other news. This paper has an appendix about the choice of Greek letter in its notation. I am going to print it out and burn it. 07:56:40 i love greek letters 07:56:43 they are so easy 07:56:52 They're not easy. 07:56:54 Why do you want to waste the paper and ink on that? 07:56:55 TeX source is included. 07:57:27 Are we not human? Do we not enjoy the visceral appeal of burning stuff we don't like? 07:57:37 And/or pooping on it. 07:57:42 zzo38, because I am superstitious, and strongly believe that if I don't cleanse myself of this taint, I may be infected, and start considering using Tengwar. 07:58:07 I think you should not waste it. 07:58:27 ok. i will use a proxy. 07:58:36 Soon: < Bike> Hey all, I'm looking for a good Tengwar font for programming. 07:58:44 I also think it should not be wasted in general. 07:58:48 Iti's a serious risk, man! 07:58:55 -!- ttmrichter has joined. 07:59:06 zzo38, to be honest, I live in the woods and am sick of trees, so I'm not too sympathetic to paper. 07:59:11 I can see its parents watching me. 07:59:13 I remember having a video of someone burning a page of Circe's code 07:59:27 I think you should not destroy the environment, solar system, and universe, in order to save humanity. Other way around is a bit better, though. 07:59:30 Hi ttmrichter 07:59:38 `welcome 07:59:42 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:59:42 If you are sick of trees, get out of the woods please. 07:59:44 hi ttmrichter 07:59:56 I'd like to. But life is hard. We don't always get what we ant. 07:59:58 want. 08:00:06 Though I don't have my ant army either. 08:01:04 At work we used to have a bunch of build scripts written using Ant. 08:01:06 And let me tell you. 08:01:13 I mean real ants! 08:01:15 Fucking programmers. 08:01:22 You almost NEVER get what you ant. 08:01:39 Bike: would you BE QUIET and let evincar make his puns 08:01:42 sheesh 08:01:52 ^rot13 fuckpuns 08:01:53 shpxchaf 08:02:20 ^rot13 evincar 08:02:20 rivapne 08:02:22 ^rot13 ravine 08:02:23 enivar 08:02:27 ^rot13 riven 08:02:27 evira 08:02:42 ^rot13 myst 08:02:42 zlfg 08:02:44 ^rot13 exile 08:02:44 rkvyr 08:02:46 ^rot13 uru 08:02:46 heh 08:02:48 heh 08:03:06 Oh hey Newspeak is on Newspeak3 08:03:10 Gosh. 08:03:29 Sure am, shachaf. 08:03:50 I feel silly for not heretofore having noticed what "shachaf" is. 08:03:56 "Evira" is the Finnish Food Safety Authority ("Elintarviketurvallisuusvirasto"). 08:03:58 ttmrichter: Am what? 08:04:23 I thought "shachaf" was a Hebrew name, and "funpuns" is a coincidence. 08:04:40 Hi. 08:04:42 evincar: You mean, other than my given name? 08:04:51 +1 point for rot13 08:05:00 ttmrichter: I heard you should learn Haskell. 08:05:07 Unless you already know Haskell? 08:05:08 I thought it was "Shacha F.", highly respected Ukrainian drug dealer by day, hacker by night. 08:05:11 much more interesting than just 'backwards' 08:05:12 Then you should learn it again. 08:05:16 shachaf: I already know Haskell. 08:05:24 ttmrichter: Then you should learn lens. 08:05:26 Isn't that transliterated as "Sasha"? 08:05:27 I even have a credit in Real World Haskell. :) 08:05:45 ttmrichter: I recognize your nick but I'm not sure where from. 08:05:56 From a recent anti-Haskell rant, probably. :D 08:06:05 Wow, you're in a lot of channels. 08:06:17 But do you know of the monad, comonad, Kleisli category, Kan extensions, Cartesian closed category, ... 08:06:25 Yeah, but they're all low-volume. 08:06:28 Oh, you're that person. 08:06:32 It's important that you know of Kan extensions. 08:06:32 zzo38: I know *of* them. :) 08:06:42 OK, this won't be productive. 08:07:36 evincar: Why did you invite a troll to this channel? 08:08:09 We're more about the crackpots. 08:08:21 shachaf: We had a nice conversation about garbage collectors and I am a hospitable person. 08:08:51 The more the merrier! 08:08:56 Or approximately merrier. 08:09:34 Merrier in the limit? 08:09:37 Merriment increases asymptotically with morement, but it may not be observable for some values of n. 08:10:08 Yes that. 08:10:57 Maybe that's how Heaven works. It just keeps getting more people since the world is endless, and the dead grow more and more joyful, eventually becoming one with God and happiness after eternity. 08:11:08 -!- ttmrichter has left ("Leave"). 08:11:31 Does that mean that this is hell? :( 08:11:55 The biggest greed is wanting an afterlife. 08:12:12 Harsh, bro. 08:12:29 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:12:38 The biggest greed is wanting an afterlife and take everything with you. 08:14:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:14:34 everything i touch dies..... 08:18:39 high five bro 08:19:25 http://www.genomicron.evolverzone.com/wp-content/uploads/Fig1.jpg 08:22:16 "Fig. 1. A fascinating picture." (Figure caption from some maths journal on the "recent issues" desk in the library.) 08:23:02 (The contents were, IIRC, some kind of a graph. It didn't make any special sense to me.) 08:23:56 How to set the switches on this thing. Dayan, P. (2012). Current Opinion in Neurobiology, 22(6), 1074–1068. 08:26:35 Was I too rude? 08:26:41 Perhaps ttmrichter isn't always a troll. 08:27:39 what's your prior experience? 08:28:37 I think http://www.txt.io/t-2kv5h is the post they referred to. 08:29:16 boring 08:29:22 Yes. 08:30:02 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 08:30:09 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:30:51 i was hoping for, like, something about Haskell, at least. 08:32:15 «PayPal once rejected a candidate who aced all the engineering tests because for fun, the guy said that he liked to play hoops. That single sentence lost him the job. No PayPal people would ever have used the world “hoops.” Probably no one even knew how to play “hoops.” Basketball would be bad enough. But “hoops?” That guy clearly wouldn’t have fit in. He’d have had to explain to the team why he was going to go play hoops on ... 08:32:21 ... a Thursday night. And no one would have understood him.» 08:32:24 good hiring strategy imo 08:33:54 :/ 08:34:30 paypal's ceo is the one that was making an offshore libertarian utopia, right? 08:34:56 «PayPal also had a hard time hiring women. An outsider might think that the PayPal guys bought into the stereotype that women don’t do CS. But that’s not true at all. The truth is that PayPal had trouble hiring women because PayPal was just a bunch of nerds! They never talked to women. So how were they supposed to interact with and hire them?» 08:35:23 fuckin' nerds, maaaaan 08:36:47 «One good hiring maxim is: whenever there’s any doubt, there’s no doubt. It’s a good heuristic. More often than not, any doubt precluded a hire. But once this very impressive woman came to interview. There were some doubts, since she seemed reluctant to solve a coding problem. But her talk and demeanor—she insisted on being interviewed over a ping-pong game, for instance—indicated that she’d fit into the ubernerd, ubercoder ... 08:36:53 ... culture. She turned out to be reasonably good at ping-pong. Doubts were suppressed. That was a mistake. She turned out to not know how to code. She was a competent manager but a cultural outsider. PayPal was a place where the younger engineers could and would sometimes wrestle with each other on the floor to solve disputes! If you didn’t get the odd mix of nerdiness + alpha maleness, you just stuck out.» 08:36:59 sounds like a great place to work 08:37:38 So, um, are all these quotes supposed to be positive about PayPal? 08:37:47 Because they really don't come off that way. 08:37:58 I'm... kind of confused about the level of sarcasm, here. 08:38:12 .... wrestle... on the floor? 08:38:38 Bike: You're just mad you're not ubernerd and/or alphamale enough for PayPal. 08:38:47 No, really, is this PayPal saying this? 08:38:50 Now I like a good wrestle, but... 08:38:55 http://blakemasters.com/post/21437840885/peter-thiels-cs183-startup-class-5-notes-essay 08:38:59 I only wrestle if mud is provided. 08:39:05 this sounds like a wonderful way to make good code 08:39:16 if there's a technical decision, pff, /discussing/ it? that's for /girls/ 08:39:29 real men *wrestle* in their code reviews 08:39:37 Oh, a ttrpg tagline. k 08:39:52 Well, your code can't fight for itself. 08:39:56 You have to stand up for it. 08:40:14 " It turned out that scaling up would be very challenging for PayPal because the 26 year-olds who were managing hundreds of thousands of credit cards didn’t make all the optimal choices from the beginning. " 08:40:40 But well. Not sarcastic at all. Wow. 08:41:09 Maybe these quotes are just made up. 08:41:48 ok, so the paypal cofounder involved in John Galt bullshit is someone else, at least. 08:49:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:58:37 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:05:41 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:06:08 -!- augur has joined. 09:06:53 I seem to have lost the ability to sleep. 09:06:54 -!- ogrom has joined. 09:06:57 I am discomfited. 09:09:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:33:49 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:34:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:54:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:06:03 oerjan: why is ε afraid of ζ? 10:07:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:08:07 hi 10:08:49 a hi s 5 2 3 10:57:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:26 523 EHLO 11:01:26 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:13:51 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:44:38 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: Up up and away!). 11:45:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:50:06 shachaf: you realize ζ and θ would work better with the actual alphabet order? or is that part of the joke. 11:52:10 oerjan: Hmm? 11:52:17 Q: Why is ε afiraid of ζ? 11:52:26 A: Because ζ η θ. 11:52:42 s/fi/f/ 11:52:46 * oerjan swats himself -----### 11:52:56 αβγδεζηθικ... 11:53:14 I don't quite think that joke works, which is strange because it's exactly analogous to the same joke with numbers 11:53:20 * oerjan then sics 7 on shachaf 11:53:28 ais523: Why doesn't it work? 11:53:39 (Maybe it only works in American.) 11:53:47 yeah, it does, but I translated it to American 11:53:52 I think the problem is the extra article 11:54:07 i thought that was just a heavy greek accent 11:54:12 you think of the letters as types of things, rather than as individual things, because thetas have to be countable 11:54:14 I think the article is fine. 11:54:18 otherwise the grammar is worng 11:54:20 *wrong 11:54:24 "a theta" sounds OK to me. 11:54:25 this makes them rather harder to anthropomorphise 11:54:52 shachaf: yeah, but the joke doesn't work, because why would an epsilon care that a theta has been eaten? it's not a theta itself 11:55:00 yeah humans are hard to anthropomorphise because there is more than one of them 11:55:07 sure, it's a /letter/, but it doesn't generalize well 11:55:12 ais523: Well, sure, but it's a letter. 11:55:17 It sounds fine to me. 11:55:20 oerjan: humans are very hard to anthropomorphise 11:55:29 6 isn't 9 either 11:55:44 whereas with the number version of the joke, the fact that it's just "9" that's been eaten makes it sound like a proper noun 11:55:51 and so 6 could reasonably fear that it was next 11:55:57 When did ε decide to stop being a Scientologist? 11:56:01 because they sound like they're both names for the same sorts of things 11:56:08 maybe epsilon just isn't a letterist, and so is fully capable of empathy with thetas 11:56:26 A: When ζηθn. 11:56:28 also he's clearly the last remaining epsilon 11:57:11 `addquote oerjan: humans are very hard to anthropomorphise 11:57:17 928) oerjan: humans are very hard to anthropomorphise 11:57:24 they're human already! 11:57:31 i think that works best with no context 11:57:36 I plugged in a USB headset, but had to reboot in order for it to show up in Gnome sound settings as an output option (as opposed to just existing in the "hardware" tab). :/ 11:57:36 yeah 11:57:54 ais523: Perhaps you don't think it works because you're unfamiliar with ζ. 11:58:00 fizzie: perhaps restarting the appropriate daemon would have worked 11:58:01 ζ does not discriminate. 11:58:45 ζ is like a monster, and the rest of the Greek alphabet is like Tokyo. 11:58:46 ζ is obviously Xenu. 11:59:12 Xenu ate a Thetan? 11:59:40 or maybe he's L Ron Hubbard 12:00:20 Is #esoteric going to be sued now? 12:00:52 θn 12:01:06 shachaf: we'll be sued for accidentaly making up part of their copyrighted books 12:01:07 03:56 A: When ζηθn. 12:01:59 Fiora: Shouldn't you be asleep? 12:03:17 `run ls bin/*quo* 12:03:18 bin/addquote \ bin/allquotes \ bin/delquote \ bin/pastaquote \ bin/pastenquotes \ bin/pastequotes \ bin/quoerjan \ bin/quote \ bin/quotes 12:03:32 Hrm. 12:03:42 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:03:43 `run ls bin/*qu* 12:03:44 bin/addquote \ bin/allquotes \ bin/delquote \ bin/pastaquote \ bin/pastenquotes \ bin/pastequotes \ bin/quachaf \ bin/queegan \ bin/quoerjan \ bin/quørjan \ bin/quote \ bin/quotes 12:03:49 We could define addquoerjan, allquoerjan, delquoerjan, pastaquoerjan, etc. 12:05:15 `cat bin/queegan 12:05:16 quote kmc 12:05:23 `cat bin/quachaf 12:05:24 quote shachaf 12:05:32 `cat bin/quoerjan 12:05:33 allquotes | grep oerjan | shuf 12:06:03 Is there seriously no command for "random quote containing $1"? 12:06:14 You need to make a FUSE filesystem for this and mount it on /bin. 12:06:21 that was what i was wondering, in fact 12:06:27 `cat bin/quote 12:06:28 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 12:07:18 `cat bin/quotes 12:07:19 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 12:07:46 `cat bin/quotes 12:07:46 `cat bin/quote 12:07:47 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 12:07:47 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 12:08:04 `quote quote 12:08:05 30) i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 70) [Warrigal] `addquote hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 71) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. \ 79) let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystif 12:08:33 `cat bin/pastaquote 12:08:34 ​#!/bin/sh \ exec quote pasta 12:08:48 `pastaquote 12:08:50 No output. 12:09:07 At least they were considerate enough to leave a tail call. 12:10:07 is scientology real 12:10:33 Scientologists are real 12:10:36 shachaf: um, I slept for like 5 hours. and then I saw the Ni no Kuni box on my desk 12:11:46 `translate Ni no Kuni 12:11:50 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 4, in \ data = json.loads(sys.stdin.read().decode('utf-8')) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/__init__.py", line 310, in loads \ return _default_decoder.decode(s) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 346, in decode \ obj, end 12:12:19 Apparently it's a Japanese computer game. 12:12:21 @google wikipedia Ni no Kuni 12:12:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_no_Kuni 12:12:23 Title: Ni no Kuni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 12:12:43 it's a game by Level 5 that just came out in US 12:12:49 Should I read _Death Note_, speaking of Japenese things? 12:12:50 `run sed -i 's/pasta/"pasta|spaghetti|macaroni|maccheroni|ravioli|fusilli|tortellini|noodle|tagliatelle"/' bin/pastaquote 12:12:53 No output. 12:12:54 My sister said I should read it. 12:12:55 it's kind of what you'd get if Dragon Quest and Studio Ghibli had babies 12:12:59 `pastaquote 12:13:01 No output. 12:13:08 ummm Death Note is pretty good, I've only seen the anime though 12:13:16 oerjan: That's some serious spaghetti code. 12:13:18 I haven't heard anyone say the manga was /worse/ though, so :p 12:13:22 I ordered it, but Japanese is hard. 12:13:29 `quote pasta|spaghetti|macaroni|maccheroni|ravioli|fusilli|tortellini|noodle|tagliatelle 12:13:31 No output. 12:13:31 So I haven't read beyond the first page. 12:13:33 gosh, it's translated :P 12:13:42 unless you're doing this as language learning exercise 12:13:43 That would be, like, cheating. 12:13:56 for that you might want to start with something for a younger audience, like some shonen that has furigana 12:14:04 Death Note has furigana. 12:14:09 wait, it does O_O 12:14:10 huh 12:14:18 `quote oerjan|shachaf 12:14:19 7) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 16) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 19) In an alternate universe, ehird 12:14:24 then that should work ! 12:14:26 Are you able of reading Japanese? 12:14:42 not even close 12:14:42 shachaf: something tells me we don't discuss pasta much here 12:14:44 I don't think I would read the first page of shonen. 12:15:02 @quote pasta 12:15:02 lambdabot says: < donri> @where hpaste-dns < lambdabot> I know nothing about hpasta-dns. 12:15:12 @where hpaste-dns 12:15:13 I know nothing about hpasta-dns. 12:15:16 FOUL! 12:15:18 @quote pasta 12:15:19 sebazzz says: y venden bulks y esas mierdas bulks llenos de pastabase 12:15:22 @quote pasta 12:15:22 lambdabot says: < donri> @where hpaste-dns < lambdabot> I know nothing about hpasta-dns. 12:15:23 the most I know is roughly how to read kana, beyond that I'm pretty clueless 12:15:34 I have you beat! 12:15:46 I only know the hiragana, sort of. 12:15:52 Not even the katakana. 12:16:10 shachaf: your sister is just trying to get away from the curse she got by reading Death Note by passing it on to you. hth. 12:16:12 And I don't even really know those, because it was a while ago. 12:16:29 oerjan: It's OK, I'll just pass it on to Fiora. 12:16:32 And/or Bike. 12:16:37 They're the same person, I think. 12:16:49 I wonder if the death note book is machine printable 12:17:34 I only sort of know the katakana, I still need a reference to check things 12:18:06 basically I know just enough japanese to feel completely clueless 12:18:24 I manage to feel completely clueless while knowing even less Japanese. 12:18:36 You should try to forget a little of it, then. 12:18:37 I guess it's just a matter of natural talent? 12:24:29 -!- oerjan has set topic: FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE | Necessity of inplantation of microchips every day is a must have to even be conssidered | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 12:25:04 (the misspelling is intentional, see log) 12:26:03 Which misspelling is intentional? 12:26:08 Is the other one unintentional? 12:26:29 oh that one was already in the topic. 12:26:30 Well they're both based on something that came before. 12:26:58 i guess that just makes it fit together better 12:31:39 basically I know just enough japanese to feel completely clueless 12:32:21 i know just enough japanese to know that the japanese consider "english word said in the most racist japanese accent" the normal way of doing loanwords 12:32:45 not really, people doing racist interpretations have no idea how kana work <.< 12:33:21 it's the same way we do loanwords, we write it in our alphabet and sound it out terribly 12:33:35 i wonder what racist english accents sound like 12:35:23 http://actualfacebookgraphsearches.tumblr.com/ ... oh wow. this exists 12:37:48 Everything exists. 12:37:53 http://actualfacebookgraphsearches.tumblr.com/post/41233537916/people-who-like-english-defence-league-and-curry 12:38:06 this reminds me of the not the 9 o'clock news tory conference sketch 12:40:33 Oh, it's my Tom Scott. 12:40:36 *by 12:40:38 Figures. 12:41:14 Is it true that everything exists? 12:41:40 Would you say: There are unicorns, but no existent unicorns? Or would you say: There are no unicorns? 12:41:59 (This question was raised by Raymond Smullyan, who attributed it to some other philosopher person.) 12:45:20 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:56:06 -!- noam_ has joined. 13:06:17 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:09:50 `addquote okay so like do Or do not? no no do There is no do not. 13:09:53 929) okay so like do Or do not? no no do There is no do not. 13:22:55 "Evira" is the Finnish Food Safety Authority ("Elintarviketurvallisuusvirasto"). <-- obviously fake, there are no umlauts 13:24:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:26:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:29:35 "viketurvall" is obviously "food" due to its striking resemblance to the english "victual" 13:30:43 impressive skill at missing the root boundaries, quintopia 13:31:32 oerjan: i figured i would. break it up for me 13:32:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:32:32 (Elin|tarvike)|turvallisuus|virasto. 13:32:38 well see it's derived from 'keturv' 13:32:51 which is 'vrutek' backwards 13:33:10 Finnish involves a lot of "turn it backwards" style derivation, yes. 13:34:16 finnish sounds like the worst 13:34:46 vrutek is of course derived from the croatian supermarket chain 13:35:55 quintopia: finnish words basically never end in a consonant combination, and i don't think a single -r is appropriate either. 13:36:22 -!- Arc_Koen has left. 13:36:28 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 13:36:33 so i can see it was wrong, although not so much where it _should_ split. 13:37:17 i think -n and -s are the main consonants that _can_ occur at the end of words. 13:37:55 reversing a word and appending -all is as we all know the finnish version of the irth form 13:37:56 (possibly only) 13:38:02 oerjan: lets just make shit up and pretend its finnish 13:38:45 quintopia: well if you had said "keturvalli", say, i wouldn't have been sure whether you were right or not. 13:39:00 -!- carado has joined. 13:39:44 oerjan: but that would have left "suus" 13:40:14 since we can guess "virasto" from the fact it is abbv'd "evira" 13:40:24 yes, but i am not sure that "suus" isn't a word 13:40:45 oerjan: They're certainly the most likely, but it's not a strict rule; I mean, it's a language, all rules have exceptions. (E.g. askel 'a step' ends in l.) 13:40:53 it doesnt look very wordlike. i t only has four letters! 13:41:23 well it would be a pronoun or something... 13:42:00 in the name of an organization? 13:42:26 And there are a lot of words that end in "-tar" describing female people. 13:42:30 organizations dont use words under 3 syllables silly 13:42:50 (Näyttelijätär 'actress', and so on.) 13:43:02 what's the real finnish irth form 13:43:32 fizzie: darn don't go ruining all my rules here 13:43:47 what's "irth" 13:44:20 sorry, i explainirth these days 13:44:39 you damn scandinavians come into our channel and can't even be bothered to learn our language 13:44:41 except oklopol 13:44:52 oerjan: http://sprunge.us/UDJX though that wordlist has a lot of direct loanwords and things like that. 13:45:15 oerjan: (And probably most of the 't's are plurals, it has some amount of inflected variants.) 13:46:06 are you guys currently in the process of learning your own language? 13:46:30 hahahaha 13:46:32 neida 13:46:41 i love the bbc continuity announcers 13:47:29 farscape got cancelled so abruptly they didn't even have time to get rid of the twist and the "to be continued" in the final episode 13:47:55 and then the announcer says "despite what it says on the tin that was the last episode of farscape" 13:48:41 it was continued though 13:48:45 sadly it's much worse without the deadpan, bored bbc continuity announcement voice 13:48:47 the peacekeeper wars finished it 13:48:57 quintopia, yes, but not when that announcement was made! 13:49:31 i never heard the announcement when i watched it 13:49:37 do they have a continuum of announcers 13:49:39 the version i watched was unmolested by bbc 13:50:05 'molested' 13:50:08 what are you talking about 13:50:42 bbc continuity announcements are a gift! 13:55:02 (also braca: best toady ever?) 14:00:49 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:11:02 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:11:54 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:22:33 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 14:28:03 -!- ejnahc has left ("InklChat :: http://barosl.com/inklchat/"). 14:36:43 -!- boily has joined. 14:38:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:53:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:58:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:06:16 how do you say things here so they dont go in the public log 15:10:05 I think we had a discussion about that. 15:10:11 I suggested something XML-based, IIRC. 15:10:30 Kick glogbot? 15:11:31 I sure hope this comment was not logged. 15:11:33 That. 15:11:46 Sadly, I don't think it works. 15:12:06 (I know it's part of freenode guidelines to have a way of doing it.) 15:12:34 quintopia: What do you want to say? 15:13:58 elliott: nothing now. i just wanted to know how it was done. 15:14:12 ok guys 15:14:17 quintopia: it's not 15:14:36 I just created a quick mutiplayer game based on stratego and I need 2 or 3 people to test it! 15:15:59 elliott: I think e's going to report the channel to THE AUTHORITIES now that you've admitted that. 15:16:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:16:50 is ais523 the authorirtiteis 15:17:01 authoritites 15:17:11 FREENODE POLICE is the authoritities. 15:17:12 authorititis 15:17:28 authori titties 15:19:22 Arc_Koen: how do you make a quick multiplayer game? was the networking that easy to hash out? 15:19:35 Phantom_Hoover: authorititis sounds awful, in the same line as teleportitis. 15:19:57 quintopia: for some values of quick 15:19:58 you keep involuntarily making laws 15:20:10 also it's not a software or a program or anything, if that was your question 15:20:38 oh 15:20:42 tabletop? 15:21:17 this lw conversation is really quite interesting 15:22:04 the only thing we need is a place to chat (like emails or irc) and also something like an MD5 hash to prevent players from cheating (that is, you have to chose a secret setup at the beginning of the game, and well it'd be good to be able to check at the end that the players sticked to the setup they chosed) 15:22:11 oops, brb 15:24:40 Arc_Koen: the hash of the initial setup should be done with a salt which is produced at the end, of course, so everyone can go back and check everyone else 15:36:44 quintopia: indeed 16:19:42 http://img.pr0gramm.com/2013/01/5e59e.png wow 16:20:28 Wow indeed 16:21:02 haha 16:28:03 haha 16:28:39 so i presume bert spent the last 7 years reading tbw general questions 16:29:39 found the link! http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?13607-PLeas-eHElp-me-on-my-Computer-Game 16:29:51 is 'yesterday' real life yesterday 16:29:56 yes 16:30:17 it has been reddit'd 16:31:52 shachaf: wow, that essay :( 16:32:11 nerds don't know how to talk to women! and nerds hate anyone who tolerates sports! 16:32:27 if you hire women or people who talk to women or anyone who tolerates sports, it will sink your startup! 16:34:31 08:05:16: shachaf: I already know Haskell. 16:34:32 08:05:24: ttmrichter: Then you should learn lens. 16:34:32 08:05:26: Isn't that transliterated as "Sasha"? 16:34:32 08:05:27: I even have a credit in Real World Haskell. :) 16:34:32 08:05:45: ttmrichter: I recognize your nick but I'm not sure where from. 16:34:35 08:05:56: From a recent anti-Haskell rant, probably. :D 16:34:37 this is a good start 16:35:03 shachaf: how did you find that 16:36:03 (is kmc imagining a shachaf, or am I imagining no shachaf) 16:36:15 shachaf: Hey whats up??? 16:36:17 shachaf: Wow really 16:36:20 shachaf: thjats kool 16:36:30 i'm respnoding to something shachaf said a while back 16:36:38 kmc: yo do you know the location of this anti-haskell rant 16:36:39 i gotta have my yuks 16:36:46 OH 16:36:49 IT'S http://www.txt.io/t-2kv5h 16:36:53 elliott: no i try to avoid that kind of shit 16:36:57 OH WOW i mocked that when it got on reddit i think 16:37:01 w ehad..... a cleebruty 16:37:09 amazing i am suddenly A+ super into this log 16:37:13 kmc: well that's what you have me for right 16:38:05 -!- Bike has joined. 16:39:39 wtf there wasn't even a flamewar 16:39:41 he just left 16:39:42 jeez 16:42:45 kmc: haha wow I hate you for making me find out what you were referring to in the logs 16:43:08 glad to be of service 16:43:56 "PayPal was a place where the younger engineers could and would sometimes wrestle with each other on the floor to solve disputes!" 16:44:00 kmc: are we sure this thing isn't satire 16:44:01 Note to self: make sure a library works before uploading it to Haskell 16:44:06 i have no idea 16:44:09 poe's law etc 16:44:47 most things i hear about 'startup culture' set off the poe's law detector 16:48:41 we're pooling money to buy a rubber chicken head, to accompany the rubber horse head we already have. 16:49:06 uploading it to Haskell 16:49:14 Uploading it to Haskell 16:49:35 (there are about 5 broken versions of family-tree on Hackage) 16:49:57 wow the gender ratio of Stanford CS is really really bad 16:50:01 like 8% female 16:50:19 Better than this channel 16:50:44 compared to ~30% at MIT 16:50:47 oh burn 16:51:20 even Caltech is better than that I think 16:51:53 we had only like 25 CS undergrads graduate per year, but at least two of them were women 16:52:56 no wonder the paypal people "don't know how to talk to women" 16:53:41 I'm pretty sure it involves opening and closing your mouth in unusual ways to make sounds 16:53:46 Such as "hello" 16:55:07 I wonder if Canonical is considering rolling releases for Ubuntu because they're running out of letters 16:55:19 i think they should go back around the alphabet with fungi instead of animals 16:55:36 kmc: i like how you managed to turn this into mit being better than caltech 16:55:43 very......... alpha male 16:55:46 you should go work at paypal imo 16:55:50 Adorable Amanita muscaria 16:56:12 elliott: wanna wrassle 16:56:24 beautiful bolete 16:56:27 charming chanterelle 16:56:30 kmc: um isn't that a bit... gay 16:56:35 i'm a programmer, you know 16:56:48 elliott: it's not gay if the balls don't touch [p < 0.05] 16:57:07 In my experience it's not gay even if the balls touch. 16:57:17 (sample size 1) 16:57:31 well you need a professional grade phased array gaydar to make that determination 16:57:35 and those cost thousands of dollars 16:57:54 They're standard equipment for gays and bisexuals. 16:58:19 I'm a biromatic asexual, can I get one? 16:58:27 Sure, why not. 16:58:30 That's close enough. 16:58:38 i must have missed the memo 16:59:01 Now, just walk through the hall of gloryholes and recieve yours. 16:59:12 (the hall is so we have a handy test case) 16:59:32 I feel like an awful person 16:59:37 me too 16:59:44 There's a thing in Newspeak that I fixed and never released and now I lost it 16:59:47 imo you're both fine people 16:59:47 did your balls touch, sgeo? 16:59:50 oh. 17:02:48 Bike, 17:02:50 "The VM object supports the set of operations traditionally implemented as 17:02:50 primitives in Smalltalk. There is no syntax for a primitive call in Newspeak. A 17:02:50 primitive call is a message send to the VM object." 17:03:30 i knew it! 17:31:16 I keep hearing about BETA, but haven't actually looked at it 17:31:23 (or gbeta which I gather is a successor) 17:32:26 " The binary for Windows is not currently available because of the large number of recent changes, but it will become available again." 17:32:33 Looking at the news, I think gbeta's dead 17:32:38 Hasn't been touched since 2011 17:35:56 "The current gbeta implementation is more for the (academic) geek who is interested in programming language design and type systems, and less for the no-nonsense practical programmer who wants to write large mission-critical applications." 17:36:17 I keep looking for something that works well with the latter when at heart I'm really the former 17:36:27 I think that's why I'm always on a language hunt 17:36:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:08:44 yeah 18:08:46 a common predicament 18:09:46 -!- augur has joined. 18:29:21 -r is okay 18:29:22 but it's rare 18:30:55 also apparently this was talked ages ago and not a second ago 18:30:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:31:21 We've had "really bad" ratios at least in the new-students statistics for CS some years. 18:31:26 I don't know how much it's overall. 18:31:30 i read upward for 5 minutes, took a sauna and continued the discussion i saw. 18:31:37 It's certainly less than 30%, but might be above 8%. 18:34:22 -r ? 18:34:27 oklopol: remember that time you continued a conversation in here exactly however many years later 18:34:30 after having said you would 18:34:34 that was so great 18:35:18 gender ratio seems more important the more i think about it 18:35:47 What's -r ? 18:36:04 not just to have more women in the field, but also so that men in the field don't see women as some strange mythological species 18:36:08 the best part was that i ran home from work because i thought the moment was in 5 minutes, but i'd mixed up time difference between logs. 18:36:25 i wish i had gone to a school with a less skewed ratio, i think i would be a better person 18:36:51 oklopol: well done 18:36:56 i had some help 18:42:23 elliott: when was that? 18:42:34 olsner: ages ago 18:42:40 like a year? 18:44:18 ok 18:54:58 kmc: do you know how to tell gcc to use ld.gold as the linker 18:55:18 no 18:55:22 damn 18:55:24 pikhq: how about you 18:56:24 -fuse-ld=gold or something 18:57:26 anyone here knows what is up with autoconfig generated config script trying to test if compiler works by feeding .h files to it and breaking? 18:58:40 #autotools has not answered in 48h 18:59:37 nortti: what's the error message? 19:00:08 you can always just blame autoconfig and give up 19:00:08 checking whether the C compiler works... no 19:00:08 configure: error: in `/home/juhani/src/mtools-4.0.18': 19:00:08 configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables 19:00:26 nortti: what about in config.log? that gives more detailed errors 19:00:39 I can paste it if you want 19:00:47 err. to pastebin 19:01:29 http://paste.dy.fi/TLo/plain 19:02:19 nortti: oh wow, it seems to be generating the test C file incorrectly 19:02:24 yeah 19:02:25 > join fmap (>>) suc 0 19:02:27 Not in scope: `suc' 19:02:27 Perhaps you meant one of these: 19:02:27 `sum' (imported fro... 19:02:28 > join fmap (>>) succ 0 19:02:30 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> b0 19:02:35 Fooey 19:02:45 > ap fmap (>>) succ 0 19:02:46 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: b0 = b0 -> b1 19:03:07 Aaah, (>>) doesn't work like that 19:03:10 > ap fmap seq succ 0 19:03:12 1 19:03:12 ais523: and it does that on both my slitaz 3 install AND lubuntu 12.10 19:03:22 nortti: yeah, sounds like the config script that's broken 19:03:28 > ap fmap seq "hello" 19:03:29 Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> b0' 19:03:29 with actual type `[GHC... 19:03:37 it'll clearly screw up consistently, given the contents of config.log 19:03:40 ais523: but that happens with _every_ file 19:04:05 every ./configure fails the exact same way 19:04:18 then autoconf is broken on the system that's generating them 19:04:25 try with C-INTERCAL's configure, if you want one that's known to work 19:04:53 -!- monqy has joined. 19:05:02 elliott: I just grepped the entire info pages for gcc for "linker", it seems the only way to do it is to change the spec files 19:05:39 there's an option -specs= to use a substitute specs file 19:05:41 mmm 19:05:44 and you could specify one with gold as the linker 19:05:45 -fuse-linker-plugin seems to wokr 19:05:47 work 19:06:12 I think the intended method is to mention gold while building gcc, and have it generate the appropriate specs file automatically 19:06:16 ais523: http://paste.dy.fi/TOO/plain 19:06:50 oh wow 19:06:51 hmm 19:08:02 nortti: was a file conftest.c left behind? 19:08:07 if so, what are its contents/ 19:08:28 no 19:10:55 does config.status exist? 19:11:10 no 19:12:40 wow, pretty much all the autoconf-related scripts have a -d option for leaving files like conftest.c behind 19:12:44 apart from the one we actually care about :( 19:14:14 I'm not getting the error you are, so it's definitely something up with your machine's configuration 19:14:53 also to add insult to the injury it stopped working on both machine the exact same day and I don't think I even touched the lubuntu machine that day 19:15:48 I'd love it if we could somehow grab conftest.c before it was deleted 19:16:16 I'll try something insane 19:18:18 it worked 19:18:46 :) 19:18:49 http://paste.dy.fi/IzT/plain 19:19:00 what shell are you using? 19:19:04 mksh 19:19:16 try running it in dash or bash 19:19:43 busybox ash and bash give the same error 19:19:49 and so does dash 19:20:15 hmm 19:20:21 can you paste the configure script itself? 19:22:55 do you know any pastebins that can hold 200kB? 19:23:11 paste.dy.fi only works up to 64kB 19:23:12 "Take C for instance. The widespread adoption is mainly due to its simplicity of syntax. With most of the recent languages adopting an interpreter based approach, why hasnt lisp or smalltalk made a comeback? Because they are complex. Complex to write, complex to maintain and complex to read. " 19:23:18 nortti: can you paste the first 3000 lines or so? 19:23:26 the rest doesn't matter because it's already crashed by that point 19:23:54 http://paste.dy.fi/Ig8/plain 19:25:07 http://www.kogan.com/au/blog/new-internet-explorer-7-tax/ 19:25:13 oh, it's the C-INTERCAL config script, I have that one already :) (although thanks for the paste anyway to make sure the version matches) 19:25:44 oh, I actually need the first 4000 or so lines, error's on line 3500 19:25:47 This is a gold mine http://www.java.net/pub/pq/196 19:26:29 Sgeo: you mean the comments? 19:26:35 yes 19:26:46 ais523: I'll set up a web server 19:28:43 yeah, your version of the script seems different from mine 19:30:42 84.248.99.165 19:30:52 what page? default page? 19:30:52 it is hosted with netcat 19:30:58 oh, OK 19:30:58 any page 19:31:01 not a web server, then 19:31:04 a netcat server 19:31:23 what port? 19:31:23 couldn't be arsed to compile my server 19:31:26 80 19:31:33 it's hanging 19:31:37 do I actually need to send an HTTP request? 19:31:42 try again 19:31:43 ah, no 19:31:45 it just waited for a bit 19:33:49 Ok, Bracha's paper on mirrors is formatted weirdly. There's text that's part of the paper, and right where I'm expecting more, there's copyright-related stuff 19:33:49 http://bracha.org/mirrors.pdf 19:33:50 bluh 19:36:40 well, line 3414 should be putting a main in there, but somehow it isn't 19:36:48 yeah 19:37:24 wait... 19:37:38 and now I feel stupid as hell 19:37:41 nortti: could you start tracing at line 3410? 19:37:46 oh, have you figured out what was wrong? 19:38:04 Sgeo: a gold mine of what? 19:38:17 humorous fail 19:38:25 so, shit 19:38:27 a gold mine of shit 19:38:30 or a shit mine, for short 19:38:32 a shit mine of shit 19:39:11 Does shit mine mean a mine of shit or that it's shitty at acting like a mine? 19:39:15 slant drilling under the outhouse 19:39:18 I use this cat implementation: main(a,b)char**b;{if(a>1)while(*++b){open(*b,0);while(read(3,&a,1)>0)write(1,&a,1);close(3);}else while(read(0,&a,1)>0)write(1,&a,1);return 0;} 19:39:49 the reason of autoconf failing was a missing feature _in my cat implementation_ 19:40:14 oh, I don't think autoconf tests if cat is sane 19:40:19 can your dumpster computer not run a real cat 19:40:20 yeah 19:40:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:40:44 if you mentioned you'd rewritten textutils (or is cat coreutils?), I might have guessed what was wrong with the program 19:40:55 otherwise, I feel there wasn't sufficient information to solve the problem :) 19:41:01 which feature? 19:41:05 - 19:41:05 cat -v is pretty useful 19:41:07 ah 19:41:18 kmc: I have catv for that 19:41:28 ais523: I actually forgot about that 19:41:44 monqy: it can, I just like using my own implementations of unix utils. eating your own dogshit^H^H^H^Hfood 19:41:47 `addquote if you mentioned you'd rewritten textutils (or is cat coreutils?), I might have guessed what was wrong with the program 19:41:54 930) if you mentioned you'd rewritten textutils (or is cat coreutils?), I might have guessed what was wrong with the program 19:42:08 do I get points if I guessed the problem was nortti's system was deliberately crippled in a way he wasn't revealing like 15 minutes ago 19:42:21 elliott: yes 19:42:50 930 quotes? wow 19:42:53 `quote 929 19:42:55 929) okay so like do Or do not? no no do There is no do not. 19:43:25 `welcome insanity wolf 19:43:26 insanity: wolf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:43:50 who're insanity & wolf i dont see them 19:44:31 Some image macro 19:44:35 elliott: only if you told us about it like 15 minutes ago 19:44:46 so, shit 19:45:11 maybe we should have a voting system on the quotes 19:45:21 olsner: telling would spoil it 19:45:23 `quote 19:45:24 `quote 19:45:24 `quote 19:45:24 `quote 19:45:25 436) My memory passed rest in peace sgeos memory 19:45:25 662) pikhq: And of course Rick Perry, saying that there's something wrong with a country where gays can serve in the military but we don't elect a douchebag as president. 19:45:25 448) I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency 19:45:26 141) < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring the input <-- some people live their entire lives this way, i reckon 19:45:27 `quote 19:45:28 80) oklopol geez what are you doing here ...i don't know :< i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things... 19:46:38 They are all good 19:46:39 `quote `quote 19:46:41 320) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 321) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) `quote django 19:47:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:47:49 hmm... `quote `quote isn't quite a quote quine. 19:48:04 close enough 19:48:10 ^echo ech 19:48:10 ech ech 19:48:12 ^echo echo 19:48:13 echo echo 19:48:29 ^echo ^echo 19:48:30 ^echo ^echo 19:48:38 @@ @echo @echo 19:48:38 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "ion!ion@heh.fi", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo"]} rest:"echo; msg:IrcMessage { 19:48:38 msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"ion!ion@heh.fi\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#esoteric\",\":@@ @echo @echo\"]} rest:\"\"" 19:48:51 wat 19:49:00 `quote 19:49:00 `quote 19:49:01 `quote 19:49:01 `quote 19:49:01 `quote 19:49:01 636) * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness 19:49:01 649) if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? 19:49:02 394) #%%:]__t�# do you see that that is great progress taking place 19:49:03 129) cpressey, oh go to zzo's website. He is NIH AnMaster, really? I was strongly under the impression that zzo was invented here. 19:49:03 791) when everyone else was busy going "ewwww, comic sans!" I was reading the text and learned everything 19:49:10 ^echo echo 19:49:11 echo echo 19:49:19 monqy: wahta did you DO 19:49:19 @@ @tell Sgeo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo 19:49:19 Consider it noted. 19:49:26 . 19:49:27 Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:49:27 those aren't the same at ALL 19:49:34 elliott: BechoF 19:49:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:49:45 monqy: r u a magician........ :'''/ 19:49:48 `quote 19:49:49 `quote 19:49:49 @messages 19:49:49 ion said 30s ago: echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "ion!ion@heh.fi", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @tell Sgeo @echo @echo @ 19:49:49 `quote 19:49:49 echo @echo @echo"]} rest:"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"ion!ion@heh.fi\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#esoteric\",\":@@ @tell 19:49:49 Sgeo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo\"]} rest:\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"ion!ion@heh.fi\\\", msgCommand = \\\"PRIVMSG\\\", 19:49:49 msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@@ @tell Sgeo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo\\\"]} rest:\\\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\\\\\"freenode\\\\\\\", msgLBName = \\\\\\\"lambdabot\\\\\\\", 19:49:49 msgPrefix = \\\\\\\"ion!ion@heh.fi\\\\\\\", msgCommand = \\\\\\\"PRIVMSG\\\\\\\", msgParams = [\\\\\\\"#esoteric\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\":@@ @tell Sgeo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo\\\\\\\"]} rest:\\\\\\\" 19:49:49 816) the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september 19:49:50 `quote 19:49:50 314) [on Sgeo's karaoke] That is the thing that made me into a gay vampire. 19:49:50 `quote 19:49:50 elliott: the f kicks in and the b gets canceled 19:49:51 [3 @more lines] 19:49:51 904) what is this set? sounds like shakespear Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger. 19:49:51 373) oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page thanks elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJAN PAGINAS DELET 19:49:52 736) Just seen this comment on reddit: "Parallel programming has been a solved problem for decades." I might have to stop reading the internet. 19:49:55 fuck 19:49:56 monqy: (i know how it works) 19:50:04 elliott: oh...................................:''/ 19:50:06 816 is good i haven't seen it before 19:50:56 816 is indeed good 19:54:09 where does scotland start? I wonder if I've been there 19:54:38 good question 19:54:38 olsner, just past Berwick 19:54:53 Just before Jedburgh 19:54:59 Just after Carlisle 19:55:10 Depending on your longitude 19:57:28 apparently scotland has a "Devolved government" 19:57:38 Yeah 19:57:47 We shot them with a devolution gun 19:57:53 Hoping they'd turn into dinosaurs 19:57:57 Because dinosaurs are cool 19:58:48 turns out I have no idea where I've been so it ended up a bit hard to figure out if any of those places were past Berwick 19:59:00 Where did you go 19:59:05 Did you go to Edinburgh 19:59:12 Or Glasgow 19:59:17 Or Aberdeen 19:59:21 Or Inverness 19:59:32 Or... Dumfries 19:59:41 Or Linlithgow 19:59:47 Or Jedburgh 19:59:48 amy pond is from inverness 19:59:59 Inverness is scarily North 20:00:57 its about one degree south of here actually 20:01:12 olsner is scarily North 20:01:20 Scarilier North 20:01:37 pretty sure I'm south of the southernmost part of Norway 20:01:49 Norway is scarliest North 20:02:31 (not counting the norwegian colonies) 20:05:20 i may have even been to inverness 20:09:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:09:54 -!- augur has joined. 20:11:53 -!- c00kiemon5ter has left. 20:11:58 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 20:12:08 `seen c00kiemon5ter 20:12:11 2013-01-23 20:12:08: `seen c00kiemon5ter 20:12:17 ah :( 20:12:33 `seen augur 20:12:35 2013-01-19 07:40:42: http://decovo.wordpress.com 20:13:02 clearly use the raw logs 20:13:36 monqy: what would that change 20:14:16 tracking for things that dont have in the fancy logs, like joins, quits, and ACTIONs 20:14:18 Taneb: Inverness is indeed scarily North; about 12° up from montréal. 20:14:31 the uk in general is stupidly north 20:14:56 alt. make cases for all those??? alt. dont care 20:15:15 boily, Hexham is about as North as Calgary 20:15:34 `? ehird 20:15:36 ehird is the person who Taneb definitely isn't. 20:15:38 hey, I know that place 20:16:13 monqy: is it worth tracking joins/parts 20:16:17 seems like last message beats last part or whatever 20:16:19 actions is a point tho 20:17:34 `seen Plazma 20:17:37 not lately; try `seen Plazma ever 20:17:43 `seen Plazma ever 20:17:51 Maybe you should consider PRIVMSG and NOTICE at least, and then perhaps also JOIN, I think may be OK. No use of PART, QUIT, NICK, and so on, I think. 20:18:01 it looks like for the most part active people here are from far up north in their respective continents (except Fiora who's califoriating). is there at least a single person from the south hemisphere here? 20:18:14 No output. 20:18:14 `seen itidus* 20:18:15 a part can be useful if it includes a witty exit message 20:18:16 not lately; try `seen itidus* ever 20:18:18 `seen itidus20 20:18:20 not lately; try `seen itidus20 ever 20:18:22 no Australians? 20:18:30 itidus20 is an Aussie 20:18:38 boily, monqy is also from California! 20:18:42 I think most of the australians are busy melting this time of year 20:18:49 I'm /legally/ Australian, but I'm mainly British 20:18:50 if you add him to Fiora that takes him as far south as you'd ever really need 20:19:21 Phantom_Hoover is in New Zealand or somewhere ridiculous like that 20:19:21 a hybrid Taneb × Fiora cultivar? 20:19:34 I'm... I'm not sure what this would be like 20:19:36 are we talking about shipping now 20:19:36 perhaps we should measure distance from the equator instead, to make it fair for the southhemispherians 20:19:37 didn't we have some NZers 20:19:48 `seen mrout 20:19:51 2013-01-04 15:29:25: don't beta-reduce me, please. it made me dc 20:19:58 He's a kiwi, I think 20:20:00 Maybe 20:20:02 I dunno 20:20:08 what exactly does hybridizing humans do 20:20:14 and what if they're not the the same sex 20:20:28 Fiora, when two people love each other VERY MUCH 20:20:34 And wish REALLY HARD 20:20:44 And do some other stuff EQUALLY HARD 20:21:05 Sometimes they end up with a hybridization of themselves 20:21:15 * kmc currently at 42.364540°N 20:21:15 but that takes 9 months and is all kinds of awful :< 20:21:28 can't there be a better way? like ectobiology? 20:21:54 SBurb doesn't come out until next year 20:22:11 Late next year, I believe 20:22:14 and anyway only Taneb and his friends have tickets 20:22:55 Phantom_Hoover, how did that happen again? 20:23:01 Taneb must carry the torch of esolangs alone into the next universe 20:23:10 And besides, I count at least 3 of you as friends 20:23:14 Well 20:23:21 I count at least 2 of you as friends 20:23:40 oh no who was unfriended between messages 20:23:40 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away. 20:23:45 kmc: Did you figure out whether it was satire? 20:23:48 Extrapolating from that, it's 0 in just few more minutes. 20:23:55 no, didn't look closely enough 20:23:58 All I found was a link on the Internet to it. 20:24:22 As far as I can tell the class existed at Stanford, at least. 20:25:54 Self has mirrors! 20:25:58 Why is Self dead? 20:25:59 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 20:26:22 Sgeo finally cracks 20:26:23 again 20:29:32 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:30:53 Hoping they'd turn into dinosaurs <-- nah humans aren't descended from dinosaurs. although if you hit any stray birds... 20:31:09 Why would you want more than a machine language? 20:31:53 (Note: Not intended as a serious question. Just saw the von Nemann quote) 20:32:32 What von Nemann quote? 20:32:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:33:05 Supposedly he was being shown FORTRAN and said that 20:33:10 "Why would you want more than a machine language?" 20:33:21 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb. 20:33:29 I'm back and I hate you all 20:33:31 One reason is that the machine language does not work on the other computer. 20:33:43 (except by emulation, but that would be slow) 20:34:48 or dynamic binary translation, which can run faster than native 20:35:42 Would dynamic binary translation work? I thought there might be some cases causing problems, unless it is Restricted Harvard 20:35:51 Taneb, but whoa re youre friends 20:36:23 zzo38: qemu works by binary translation, as do vmware and virtualbox (sometimes) 20:36:55 Sometimes = when they're not working. 20:37:12 how do you mean? 20:37:19 Phantom_Hoover, apparently chocolate desserts accelerate the process 20:37:24 what i mean is, these programs also support hardware-assisted virtualization these days 20:37:38 great, Taneb's lost it too 20:37:50 kmc: And prefer it in all cases. So they only use binary translation if something is wrong. 20:38:12 sure but it still works 20:38:26 something is wrong such as not having virtualisation :( 20:38:41 OpenSSL will use RDRAND on Ivy Bridge processors but I wouldn't say that OpenSSL on any other processor is "not working" 20:38:54 except that OpenSSL is shit but anyway 20:38:59 My argument was only with your "sometimes" ;) 20:39:19 I wouldn't think binary translation can always work in all cases unless you also have something else to keep track of anything that changes and to retranslate. 20:39:33 yes you have to do that 20:39:41 yup, you can do that 20:39:47 binary translation can't work unless you do all the things necessary to make it work 20:40:13 you can keep maps of entry points, watch when something tries to write to the code page, fun things like that 20:40:18 But will it slow down if you do that? 20:40:21 ksplice is easily confused inside virtualbox because virtualbox did a bad job of hiding changing code pages from the guest 20:40:26 but vmware binary translation did a better job 20:40:29 zzo38: yes 20:40:35 but not necessarily dramatically 20:40:55 i remember using VMWare on an Athlon XP in like 2003 and it was reasonably fast 20:41:06 i could run Windows inside Linux well enough to play some games 20:41:12 though they didn't have 3D accel passthrough yet 20:41:37 Were they the games without the 3D, then? 20:41:37 binary translation can also make code much /faster/ because the binary translator can act as an optimizing JIT 20:42:07 it can compile only the hot paths of code, making assumptions that don't hold in general, and then call back to the interpreter when those assumptions are violated 20:42:18 zzo38: software 3D 20:42:32 optimizing JITs can be tricky though if the source is on a machine with flags up the wazoo though 20:42:39 .... like x86 <.< 20:42:40 Wait virtualization stuff does 3d passthrough now? 20:42:50 yes I think for a long time 20:43:05 I think last time I really played with virtualization was in 2007 or so 20:43:11 On a computer from 2000 20:43:24 Because I never have good computers 20:43:27 Can anyone make binary translation into a FPGA code? 20:43:31 If I have a computer, it's safe to assume it sucks 20:46:09 there's paravirtualization stuff where it just dedicates a graphics card to the VM, right? 20:46:54 -!- augur has joined. 20:47:04 SECRET message test 20:47:26 oerjan: SECRET message fail? 20:47:53 hm glogbot logs notices now, so yes 20:48:25 I think glogbot logs everything it receives (maybe with a few exceptions). 20:48:32 Fiora: with an IOMMU I think you can do that without it being paravirtualization 20:48:37 Therefore, we must induce exceptions 20:48:45 HELLOERJAN 20:49:17 If you don't want to log the message you can send message to someone directly who you want to read it only them. 20:49:49 SABOTEORJAN 20:50:04 i h8 logs :'( 20:50:14 monqy: don't log 20:50:29 Why? 20:50:29 zzo38: The point is that "freenode philosophy: channel guidelines: -- Be sure to provide a way for users to make comments without logging". 20:51:02 am i being glogged 20:51:13 You can; you send message to the users you want to receve it. Perhaps you can use multiple PRIVMSG will it work? 20:51:44 That's not a comment on the channel, which is clearly what they mean in the guidelines. 20:52:39 Then make up a separate channel for not logged messages. 20:53:28 That's also not a comment on the channel; that's a comment on some completely other channel. 20:53:50 You could as well say "just say the comment out loud in the privacy of your home". 20:56:12 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:56:34 ais523, what do you think about Klein? 20:56:34 http://blog.selflanguage.org/tag/klein/ 20:56:40 http://kleinvm.sourceforge.net/ 21:00:58 ok. config works now with this cat: main(a,b)char**b;{if(a>1)while(*++b){if(**b!='-'){open(*b,0);while(read(3,&a,1)>0)write(1,&a,1);close(3);}else while(read(0,&a,1)>0)write(1,&a,1);}else while(read(0,&a,1)>0)write(1,&a,1);return 0;} 21:01:42 have you noticed that code is unreadable 21:01:52 mostly yes 21:01:57 mostly 21:02:19 I'm develping a new cat not based on aiju's tiny unix tools one 21:02:37 actually, completely new core/textutils package 21:02:45 Sgeo: I don't have an opinion on the subject 21:04:49 I would be willing to add a nolog trigger to glogbot if people could agree on what that would be. 21:05:20 Gregor: i'd rather you didn't. 21:05:27 I'd rather I didn't too ;) 21:05:27 since it'd mean I'd have to care about clog's existence again 21:05:47 Hence why I made an impossible condition. 21:06:09 fizzie: Also didn't we decide those guidelines are actually just guidelines? 21:06:11 Is there anything that clog is blind to? 21:06:37 no, seelog sees all 21:06:53 damne. 21:07:03 (I just like using Esperanto swears) 21:09:23 -!- itrekkie has joined. 21:09:56 Sgeo: esperanto has swears? 21:10:23 Why wouldn't it? 21:10:43 Hi all--has anyone done any work with brainfuck? I'm interested in folding the pointer manipulation into a static offset, but figuring out how this works with loops eluding me 21:10:45 dunno. I had this image that it was a proper, clean, smart international language. 21:10:50 c00kiemon5ter: :| 21:10:55 itrekkie: static offset howso? 21:11:11 There's a Wikipedia article about it 21:11:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_profanity 21:11:25 boily, the creator might have intended it that way, but 21:11:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:11:42 `welcome itrekkie 21:11:43 well I'm translating directly to x86 assembly, so say the stack address is stored in eax then I can just use addressing to add and sub to cells 21:11:44 itrekkie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:12:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:12:28 you can't totally eliminate the pointer for non-balanced loops if that's what you mean 21:12:56 Sgeo: I'll be darned. 21:12:59 Hey, what would work like interact id but stop when it receives EOF? 21:13:02 Preferably short 21:13:02 itrekkie: for balanced loops, you can calculate the pointer statically 21:13:11 FreeFull: interact id 21:13:13 but such loops can be entirely optimized into polynomials 21:13:25 unbalanced loops, you can't optimize it that way (BF would be obviously non-Turing-complete if you could) 21:13:36 elliott: Except it doesn't 21:13:46 At least not in GHCI 21:13:53 sorry dumb question, but balanced loop? 21:14:29 don't test with ghci then 21:14:48 itrekkie: a balanced loop has the same number of < and > inside it, and any nested loops inside it are also balanced loops 21:15:03 ah sure, that makes sense 21:15:07 so a simple transfer-addition like [->+<] can be optimized into offsets 21:15:19 but it could also be optimized into loc1 += loc0; loc0 = 0; 21:15:42 in general, when you can optimize into static memory locations, you can also optimize into arithmetic that doesn't involve a loop at all 21:15:56 for anyone wondering, I'm working from this reader challenge (http://blog.reverberate.org/2013/01/reader-challenge-optimize-bf-jit.html) it's a fun article 21:16:23 getContents doesn't do it either 21:16:26 there are some idioms that have unbalanced loops that can nonetheless be optimized, but after a while you need strong AI to be able to work out how 21:16:28 right, okay that's taking it step even farther than I had planned and folding the loop into a constant? 21:16:42 By EOF I mean ^D here 21:16:44 -!- boily has left ("Poulet!"). 21:16:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:16:48 Which cat will stop on 21:17:02 Actually, hmm 21:17:06 Maybe that's just the terminal 21:17:15 Let me write a test case 21:17:18 FreeFull: to type EOF in a terminal, you need to type ^D at the start of a line, or ^D twice inside a line 21:17:30 in a typical UNIX terminal with a typical UNIX shell, that is 21:17:50 I'm wondering if there is a simpler more general way to handle unbalanced and balanced loops. It seems to me I can just track the offset and at the end of each loop iteration, commit the new pointer location 21:18:51 ais523: ghci seems to disable that entirely 21:19:06 oh, ghc/i/ 21:19:10 Works if you compile though 21:19:11 you haven't even given enough info or wahtever and stuff 21:19:13 yeah, it'll be setting its own line discipline 21:19:33 it's technically a terminal feature, but the shell configures it 21:19:46 if you're not entering the file in via the shell, it may be configured differently 21:21:18 -!- augur has joined. 21:21:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:21:47 main=do{a<-getArgs;if a==[]then interact(id)else mapM_(\x->if x=="-"then interact(id)else readFile x)a} 21:21:52 Code not tested, probably doesn't work 21:22:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:23:47 One problem, when you do cat - -, the second - will reopen stdin for further reading, while interact(id) will just fail 21:23:53 it doesn't print the file for one 21:24:07 elliott: Oh yeah, duh 21:24:22 main=do{a<-getArgs;if a==[]then interact(id)else mapM_(\x->if x=="-"then interact(id)else print.readFile$x)a} 21:24:43 :t foldM 21:24:44 Monad m => (a -> b -> m a) -> a -> [b] -> m a 21:24:54 ugh 21:24:56 hmm. unix (core|text)utils written in haskell... 21:25:25 haskell's the perfect language for passing dumb streams of bytes around, yeah? 21:25:25 I wonder if it could be shorter if I didn't use do 21:26:11 Bike: I don't know, BF is quite good at that too 21:26:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:26:27 main=getArgs>>=\a->if a==[]then interact(id)else mapM_(\x->if x=="-"then interact(id)else print.readFile$x)a 21:26:29 posix in bf, perfect 21:26:34 actually, idea 21:26:34 Exactly one character shorter 21:26:42 BF is good at string handling (relatively speaking) 21:26:44 INTERCAL is very bad 21:27:00 conclusion: allow calling out to BF to do string handling in INTERCAL 21:27:09 what is Intercal's specialty 21:27:27 Bike: in terms of actual usefulness? bit-twiddling and complex control flow 21:27:30 CLC-INTERCAL has commands to add plugins, so you can add such things using that, possibly 21:27:31 it's quite narrow 21:27:45 although the language's only official purpose is to be different from other languages 21:28:30 INTERCAL's manual has a tonsil 21:30:26 hey, anyone here an expert on emoticons? 21:30:35 is there a generic one that doesn't convey a particular emotion? 21:30:40 not neutral, not happy, not sad 21:30:44 I have wanted some of INTERCAL's flow control in LLVM, actually. 21:30:45 just the fact that an emoticon was used 21:30:57 ais523: No 21:31:06 :( 21:31:08 :/ 21:31:21 I was wondering about :/ 21:31:25 it seems maybe the closest 21:31:26 ais523: : 21:31:35 elliott: I like that one 21:31:50 perhaps I'll use it in #esoteric 21:31:55 as well as the `-on-a-line-by-itself 21:32:07 `-` 21:32:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: -`: not found 21:32:10 (which I haven't used for ages, but if I did, at least some people would still know what I meant) 21:32:12 ais523: perhaps you can express it with http://www.w3.org/TR/emotionml/ 21:32:16 (although HackEgo wouldn't) 21:32:27 elliott: haha, "10 may 2012"? 21:32:33 I was expecting an april 1 date 21:32:47 21:32:47 21:32:47 ‘Come, there’s no use in crying like that!’ 21:32:47 21:32:47 said Alice to herself rather sharply; 21:32:47 jesus christ, this is huge 21:32:49 21:32:52 21:32:54 ‘I advise you to leave off this minute!’ 21:32:57 21:32:59 exactly 0.82 disgusted 21:33:01 21:33:04 21:33:07 21:33:07 hmm, hitachi sells a 4TB hard drive with 3GB of free online backup 21:33:09 21:33:09 "The Emotion Incubator Group has listed 39 individual use cases for an EmotionML." 21:33:11 21:33:14 21:33:17 21:33:19 is this not a joke,i'm confused 21:33:19 21:33:22 21:33:36 Bike: it appears to have something to do with XML 21:33:39 21:33:46 21:33:48 dazed and confused, but trying to continue 21:33:49 is this some semantic web thing gone horribly wrong 21:34:09 "Human emotions are increasingly understood to be a crucial aspect in human-machine interactive systems." 21:34:21 "Especially for non-expert end users, reactions to complex intelligent systems resemble social interactions, involving feelings such as frustration, impatience, or helplessness if things go wrong. " yeah ok this is pretty amazing 21:34:27 If you want to use that, then if you want the not emotion even though it is, then write: 21:34:50 Bike: kmc: they actually wrote a justification: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/emotion/XGR-emotion/#AppendixUseCases 21:35:00 zzo38: that's a good point 21:35:26 13:30:25 hey, anyone here an expert on emoticons? 21:35:27 "Alejandra wants to build an ontology driven architecture that allows animating virtual humans (VH) considering a previous definition of their individuality. This individuality is composed of morphological descriptors, personality and emotional state." 21:35:27 13:30:35 is there a generic one that doesn't convey a particular emotion? 21:35:30 13:30:40 not neutral, not happy, not sad 21:35:30 probably an april fool's that accidentally got stuck in an official process for five weeks and ended up being released as a recommendation 21:35:32 it's just eyes 21:35:35 soulless eyes 21:35:37 I use : 21:35:53 oh no, this is the sort of focus group document that substitutes in random arbitrary names 21:35:57 to make the applications seem more human 21:36:05 monqy: is that the same meaning conveyed by "hi"? 21:36:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:36:15 monqy: I already suggested :!!! 21:36:16 olsner: no 21:36:17 soulless greeting 21:36:20 "hi" has two specific meanings 21:36:26 one of them is a greeting 21:36:32 and the other is to express disapproval 21:36:36 sometimes you can distinguish them from context 21:37:06 ontology <-- fucking knew it 21:40:14 hmm… so there's a European standard for CVs, nowadays 21:40:25 should I use it for my own CV? it'd fit in with the way I normally act, at least 21:43:12 standards are for sheeple 21:45:31 ais523 is like the crown prince of the sheeple 21:45:55 I follow standards nobody else follows! 21:46:07 indeed, he does 21:46:12 ais523: Which ones? 21:46:14 it defeats most of the purpose of standards, but allows me to feel smugly superior 21:46:17 that posix tar thing 21:46:19 zzo38: POSIX standard for tarballs 21:47:07 Despite the name, Internet Quiz Engine is the only one that is also possible to run locally (without internet). 21:47:21 Is that the case, other people doesn't use those standard? 21:47:25 I thought it does. 21:47:50 I'm pretty sure GNU tar's output is PAX-compatible anymore at least. 21:48:18 (helps the format is *essentially* just old POSIX tar) 21:49:15 I make up formats that nobody else uses. 21:53:20 `addquote most things i hear about 'startup culture' set off the poe's law detector 21:53:23 931) most things i hear about 'startup culture' set off the poe's law detector 21:53:40 What is a poe's law detector? 21:53:55 a detector to see if something is genuine or satire. 21:55:38 Bike: one of my friends in another channel has that problem at the moment 21:55:46 he's been offered a job in a startup-like company 21:56:03 and its apparent business plan is so bad he can't believe it's real and thinks the company's hiding something 21:56:05 http://www.dogbarkz.com/ 21:56:12 ... oh god it's triggering poe's law 21:56:14 I don't know if it's real 21:56:32 I'm going for "real" 21:56:40 .... I found launch articles ......... 21:56:44 No 21:56:46 Not real 21:56:51 I'm going for "satire" 21:57:03 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:57:10 Or possibly "spam" 21:57:17 nice they spell it "barkz" 21:58:10 ais523: what's their alleged plan? 21:58:31 "sell to google"? 21:58:37 Fiora: it's even better than that 21:58:48 it apparently involves doing something that reduces the bandwidth load on Google's servers, without telling Google 21:58:51 then threatening to turn it off 21:58:55 ... 21:58:58 -!- augur has joined. 21:59:01 and hoping to be paid to leave it on 21:59:20 That... 21:59:20 Fiora: are your brain cells still intact? 21:59:23 that's amazing 21:59:24 I mean, like, if that actually worked, they could probably sell it to them 21:59:28 but not by being so um. blackmaily 21:59:46 you say "here google, we patented a way to make your bandwidth 10% lower, want to buy us?" 21:59:53 yeah, that makes a lot more sense 21:59:59 not "nyahahaha here is our plan for world domination! pay us 100 billlliliooooon dollars!" 22:00:03 especially if they have a working demonstration already 22:00:07 y'all lack the dynamicism required in a startup 22:00:14 *finger on mouth* 22:00:30 the data point in brainfuck isn't reset at the end of a loop, right? 22:00:40 itrekkie: no 22:00:43 it wouldn't be TC if it were 22:00:53 as you could never move further from the origin than the total number of > commands in your program 22:01:03 ah right, that makes sense 22:01:04 (unless you use bignum tape cells) 22:01:06 uh unless they are somehow reducing the load dramatically, i think google would rather just buy more servers 22:01:14 than rely on some ridiculous third party 22:01:22 well, google buying them 22:01:24 rather than thir product 22:01:25 *their 22:01:31 even that seems unlikely 22:01:33 then all I should need to do is commit a change to the data pointer at the end of the loop? 22:01:38 don't they do that kind of thing all the time? 22:01:45 I mean, like, google gobbles startups every tuesday 22:03:54 sure 22:04:04 it depends on how easily they can replicate your technology themselves 22:04:23 and I guess if they have a patent and if google wants their employees or not? 22:06:12 yeah 22:06:39 Primer is basically call/cc: the movie 22:06:58 i'm kind of curious about what method they could possibly have, like,google already does stuff with SPDY 22:08:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:09:02 is this one of those startups with a "brilliant, disruptive idea" that just needs a few "code ninjas" to make it happen 22:09:22 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:09:39 dude a social network for pets is a great idea 22:09:42 i had this idea a long time ago 22:09:47 also a social network for household appliances 22:09:57 like, it's one thing to have a washing machine that tweets at you when your laundry is done 22:10:06 but another to have a washing machine that posts to its own wall and can become friends with the toaster 22:10:11 ..... XD 22:10:21 oh gosh now I'm remembering the Brave Little Toaster 22:10:30 "Toaster and Bathtub are now: It's Complicated" 22:10:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQGtucrJ8hM kmc 22:10:47 electrocution. 22:10:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: goodnight). 22:11:04 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 22:11:05 http://www.theonion.com/articles/my-computer-totally-hates-me-vs-god-do-i-hate-that,11538/ 22:14:47 today @CompSciFact is more like @SteveYeggeQuotes 22:14:52 kind of disappointed w/ this account 22:16:40 You should start a Twitter account that reviews other Twitter accounts. 22:18:14 how do you add a quote to the thing 22:18:16 because kmc that was perfect 22:18:20 VRC6 square wave can go one more octave lower than 2A03 square wave. 22:18:50 Fiora: `addquote insert quote here 22:19:07 replace newlines with two spaces 22:19:07 `? qdbrules 22:19:08 qdbrules? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:19:14 `? qdb 22:19:16 qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also qdbformat 22:19:20 `? qdbformat 22:19:21 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 22:19:42 what did i say? 22:19:44 `addquote a social network for household appliances like, it's one thing to have a washing machine that tweets at you when your laundry is done but another to have a washing machine that posts to its own wall and can become friends with the toaster "Toaster and Bathtub are now: It's Complicated" 22:19:48 932) a social network for household appliances like, it's one thing to have a washing machine that tweets at you when your laundry is done but another to have a washing machine that posts to its own wall and can become friends with the toaster "Toaster and Bathtub are now: It's Complicated" 22:19:53 glad you liked it :) 22:20:10 the spanish language radio station next to my office is playing the same 15 second song clip over and over and over 22:20:15 maybe their software crashed 22:20:20 maybe they only have the free preview on itunes 22:20:24 huh, our learndb is starting to be /useful/? 22:20:25 `? brainfuck 22:20:27 brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs." 22:20:33 I can't believe Fiora violated the qdbformat. 22:20:47 hmm, what's with the reverse rabbit at the end? 22:21:00 🐇 22:22:18 wait what did I do wrong 22:22:29 `delquote 932 22:22:33 I think you omitted one space before 22:22:33 ​*poof* a social network for household appliances like, it's one thing to have a washing machine that tweets at you when your laundry is done but another to have a washing machine that posts to its own wall and can become friends with the toaster "Toaster and Bathtub are now: It's Complicated" 22:22:48 `addquote a social network for household appliances like, it's one thing to have a washing machine that tweets at you when your laundry is done but another to have a washing machine that posts to its own wall and can become friends with the toaster "Toaster and Bathtub are now: It's Complicated" 22:22:51 932) a social network for household appliances like, it's one thing to have a washing machine that tweets at you when your laundry is done but another to have a washing machine that posts to its own wall and can become friends with the toaster "Toaster and Bathtub are now: It's Complicated" 22:22:53 fixed >_< 22:23:09 OK, you can stay. 22:23:33 * shachaf doesn't like the qdbformat, by the way. 22:23:39 But rules are rules. Right, elliott? 22:23:52 `quote quintopia.*both 22:23:53 308) i know it's unusual, but i agree with you both to some extent 22:23:57 Will you use RogueVM? If not, is it because there is not the assembler format yet? 22:24:00 Just look at that. Three spaces? 22:24:01 why is the qdbformat even a thing 22:24:18 Bike: because elliott 22:24:22 `addquote why is the qdbformat even a thing 22:24:25 933) why is the qdbformat even a thing 22:24:30 shachaf: One space for before message, one space is the message, two space after a message, I think. 22:24:33 `thachaf 22:24:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thachaf: not found 22:25:03 Hmm, I can't take it. 22:25:07 `delquote 933 22:25:11 ​*poof* why is the qdbformat even a thing 22:25:18 you are weak 22:26:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:27:05 Which is the IRC channel in Freenode for roguelike game? Maybe they should learn RogueVM, maybe they know better also to make the suggestion and whatever else. 22:27:18 `run sed -i 's/"$//' wisdom/brainfuck 22:27:21 No output. 22:27:23 I think there's #nethack 22:27:27 `? brainfuck 22:27:28 brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. 22:27:40 (yeah i know it would have been simpler to use `learn) 22:27:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:28:33 Do you know if standard Nethack uses features which are not compatible with RogueVM? I know ADOM does have a few. 22:28:35 Just look at that. Three spaces? <-- perhaps they both made a message with a single space. 22:28:46 oerjan: No, they made a message with no spaces. 22:28:48 I don't know what RogueVM is. 22:28:54 -!- augur has joined. 22:28:59 Wait, can you do that in IRC? 22:29:00 Empty message result in 412 error, you cannot message with nothing. 22:29:05 Maybe those quotes are WRONG! 22:29:10 Try it if you don't believe me. 22:29:23 `pastelogs both.*extend 22:29:25 Er. 22:29:26 `pastelogs both.*extent 22:29:36 i have _seen_ messages with no space, so... 22:29:53 No output. 22:29:57 No output. 22:30:01 HackEgo.............. 22:30:07 22:30:08 Bike: http://zzo38comptuer.org/roguevm/roguevm.dvi (and roguevm.tex for source file) 22:30:25 404 here 22:30:27 hm or maybe it's just putty that doesn't distinguish them 22:30:40 s/comptuer/computer/ ? 22:30:46 kmc: Yes 22:30:55 oh yep that did it. 22:30:58 http://zzo38computer.org/roguevm/roguevm.dvi 22:31:34 18 bits, huh 22:31:41 How did you get a 404? 22:31:55 Do you have one of those fancy DNS servers that gives you advertisements when it can't resolve a name? 22:32:14 If I say yes will I be able to use "404" in a more casual manner in the future and be understood 22:32:33 i think it's pretty confusing to do so 22:32:57 sorry 22:32:58 If you have one of those, it cause problem what you should do is find the IP address it uses, and write the DNS driver to have an option to detect that and cause it to return nothing instead. 22:34:02 well fine 22:34:04 jerks :( 22:35:51 Therefore, maybe I should add such an option in the network setting menu when I make up that computer. 22:36:05 some of this seems kind of weird. like why are tile names 28 octets but also null terminated. 22:36:44 However such an option should also be available in Linux, maybe. 22:37:26 Bike: Well, I suppose it could be terminated after 28 octets automatically too, but I wanted to make it null terminated so that a C prorgam that loads it does not have to add its own null terminator in that case. 22:37:56 well i mean, why specify 28 octets if it can just be null terminated anyway. 22:38:45 Which page are you refering to? 22:39:47 4, i guess. 22:40:08 The reason is so that the records have a fixed size. 22:41:18 I thought that was obvious. Isn't it? 22:41:32 guess i'm not paying enough attention 22:49:04 "Tangent: the occasional truthiness of false is a case study in the pitfalls of language design. It stems from the interaction of two bad decisions. First, we have the implicit coercion of any type to a boolean - a nasty C legacy. Then we have primitive types, which leads to (non-transparent) autoboxing. Since any object is truthy, and autoboxing false creates an object, you can end up with an automatic, hidden conversion that interprets fals 22:49:04 e as true." 22:49:11 When does Javascript decide that false is truthy? 22:51:56 Some of the features of ADOM that are not supported in RogueVM includes, holding down the space-bar to win money at the slot machine, and the area where you cannot enter unless you have already played this game a few times, and the default names. 22:52:08 Sgeo: I think when you write something like (new Boolean(False)) 22:54:24 Bike: Is there anything else you find wrong in the RogueVM or right or whatever question, or if something is unclear I should make it more clearly? 22:55:16 i'm not really that interested to look it over closely, but given i didn't realize something as obvious as the thing i don't know that i can be of any hlep 22:56:11 Maybe I should add a ICO directory which is optional and can contain graphics. 22:56:42 oh, i was wondering about that. since you said that interpreters can provide graphics if they want, but apparently there's no way to specify such, they just have to guess from the ASCII? 22:57:53 Just guessing from the ASCII is a dumb way; I was thinking, they might be in a separate file, but I think it makes sense to provide default graphics in a ICO directory for that purpose, now. 22:58:20 yeah. 23:00:20 * Sgeo still doesn't understand gBeta 23:00:26 Maybe I should try to understand Beta first 23:00:28 But now I am not exactly sure what formats to use for the graphics. The low sixteen bits of the file number could be used for the tile number and the high sixteen bits to indicate the format, I guess. Other than that I am not exactly sure but maybe you or someone have suggestion 23:03:18 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 23:06:04 What graphics formats should I specify? 23:06:42 zzo38: probably PNG is the best option for that sort of thing nowadays 23:06:50 it's widely supported and has the right features 23:07:17 PNM might be more zzo38 though. 23:08:00 Yes, it does, but that isn't quite what I meant. I intended that format data (including icon size, color depth, etc) might be stored using the file number, so that the program can select the one it wants. 23:08:51 PNG is good if you are having the icons separately, but when combining it into something like this it doesn't quite seem properly. 23:09:21 But maybe it is, if you know how it ought to fit with the other things it does too. 23:09:41 Amusingly, you can place arbitrary data in a PNG. 23:10:09 Yes, I know that 23:11:07 PNG has lots of places to steganographically hide data, too 23:11:41 In addition to the pixel data? 23:11:45 yes 23:12:50 PNG file contains a sequence of chunks of various types 23:13:36 Additionally, most all PNG viewers will ignore data at the end of the file. 23:13:50 the pixel data itself is a zlib data stream split across one or more IDAT chunks 23:14:03 the boundaries of the IDAT chunks are completely arbitrary, they can come anywhere in the zlib stream 23:14:16 Conveniently, ZIP readers are *required* to ignore random data at the beginning of the file. 23:14:22 I mean, are there other chunks than the pixel data to whom you can add your content without making them invalid or obviously suspicious? 23:14:32 pikhq: Yes, it is used to make self-extracting files, I think. 23:14:39 (this is in part so you can append to a ZIP file by just writing new things to the end) 23:14:45 also DEFLATE itself gives plenty of freedom to encode the same data different ways 23:14:54 ion: Yes. 23:15:00 ion: you can add unknown chunk types, that most programs will ignore 23:15:12 the chunk type code itself encodes "is it safe to ignore this chunk" 23:15:14 The spec also has a comment chunk type. 23:15:28 Unknown chunks type is something i’d look at when looking for steganographics. :-P 23:15:30 and arbitrary text strings 23:15:48 You could probably also do stego in the filtering. 23:16:07 and UTF-8 text strings... plenty of ways to hide data in Unicode as well :) 23:16:11 In PNG, each raster line of the picture has one of 5 filters applied before it gets sent into DEFLATE. 23:16:17 yeah, that would be a good way 23:25:24 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:27:52 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:29:10 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 23:29:11 I don't think PNG is the right one for this use, if I want that the program may want to select which icon size, color depth, etc, they want to use, by selecting which file is wanted. (If you think this is bad idea you can say why) 23:30:24 RogueVM does support to have extra chunks though, by making files ETC/800????? which are files that a program which doesn't understand, can ignore it. 23:30:51 Oh woah Eliot Miranda isa ctively involved with Newspeak 23:30:52 Actively 23:42:51 So that part is a bit like PNG. 23:44:41 Currenly there are none of ETC/800????? assigned, although if there are some you think should have, I could add it on. 23:49:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:50:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:50:19 https://github.com/search?q=path%3A.ssh%2Fid_rsa 23:51:45 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:53:02 Fuck you google 23:53:22 ion: o_O 23:53:23 https://github.com/search?q=BEGIN+RSA+PRIVATE+KEY&type=Code&ref=searchresults 23:53:27 When I search for +"get lost", don't insist on showing me a result that has just lost, and no mention of the word get anywhere 23:54:14 kmc: nice 23:54:29 thoug, most of these are empty? 23:54:47 the number of pages indication is a lie btw 23:54:57 it showed 99 but then ran out when i got to page 3 23:55:15 today i gotta learn how to use AES-NI 23:55:50 Those are all certificate keys 23:57:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:15 -!- augur has joined. 23:58:52 https://google.com/search?q=inurl:.ssh/id_rsa 23:59:11 that reminds me, http://www.shodanhq.com/