00:00:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 00:03:38 22:50:00 you _could_ make all monad value types monoids, but then you wouldn't be able to have any other monoids of form t a without overlappinginstances 00:03:51 oerjan: um but the idea is to express the monoids-in-the-category-of-endofunctors thing 00:03:57 which you can do, with PolyKinds 00:04:14 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:04:24 -!- HackEgo has joined. 00:04:26 `echo What is love? 00:04:29 What is love? 00:04:33 Hm 00:06:06 elliott: OKAY 00:06:12 `echo yay! 00:06:13 yay! 00:07:01 `echo I'm still broken! 00:07:01 I'm still broken! 00:07:41 `echo Your MOM is still broken. 00:07:43 Your MOM is still broken. 00:24:54 fungot: define love 00:24:56 c00kiemon5ter: what is smerdyakov? :) taken me all night if i actually ever remember to watch introducing python to make something like srfi-49 afaik 00:25:20 fungot: define cookie 00:25:21 c00kiemon5ter: they gotta teach her how to conjugate verbs 00:25:52 that they do 00:25:58 'US senate special election to replace John Kerry will be June 35' 00:27:08 why's he being replaced 00:27:17 becoming secretary of state 00:27:22 offense to the gregorian calendar 00:27:32 oh, i thought he died 00:27:41 then the photo caption says "June 325" which is April 21, 2014 00:27:50 Oh, what's happening to Clinton? 00:27:57 stepping down 00:27:59 he died 00:28:01 she's dying rip 00:28:05 nobody's dying 00:28:08 Geez, I missed it 00:28:10 are you sure 00:28:14 except for all of those people you don't know 00:28:14 kmc, don't be so insensitive 00:28:16 it was my understanding that everyone is dying and hence will eventually die 00:28:29 elliott, no nobody's dying right now 00:28:29 Rip already has a nice color, please don’t dye it. 00:28:29 "nobody's dying except the people on the other end of those drone strikes" <--- POLITICAL HUMOR 00:28:36 we all stopped dying for a bit 00:28:41 kmc: *HUMOUR 00:28:47 NATIONALITY-BASED HUMOUR 00:28:50 kmc: *HUMOURE 00:28:55 *HUMER 00:28:57 HÜMØR 00:29:03 good metal band name 00:29:04 HUUMORI 00:30:06 HUMMER 00:30:21 humøret i dag 00:30:35 clinton is taking time off to prepare to run for president, and/or to be old and really tired from being the hardest working SecState in forever 00:30:38 nobody is quite sure which 00:31:09 she does look damn old 00:31:09 wait 00:31:17 don't us presidents alternate in party 00:31:20 she would be the oldest first term president except for reagan 00:31:31 Phantom_Hoover: often but it's not in the constitution or anything ;P 00:32:17 bush followed reagan, so no. 00:32:25 i think she would be too old in 2021 so this is her shot 00:32:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:33:17 also http://jezebel.com/5959154/is-america-ready-for-a-white-male-secretary-of-state 00:34:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:50 -!- augur has joined. 00:35:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States is conveniently color-coded if you want to see about alternation or not 00:35:41 i thought washington was considered a whig, huh 00:35:56 a lot of the non-alternation comes from VPs taking over after the previous guy dies or resigns 00:36:15 sometimes they subsequently win a term on their own, sometimes not 00:36:16 ah, the whigs 00:36:19 what i want to know is how do you be the potus without going insane 00:36:22 well i guess you just go insane 00:36:37 did they eventually just die out because their name was so dumb 00:36:41 That's what the election is for, they go insane while finding votes. 00:36:51 To streamline things, I mean. 00:36:53 elliott: yes 00:37:00 elliott: it's a very efficient system 00:37:18 clinton running for president would be like... I'm not sure how she is even still alive 00:37:22 zombie president 00:37:25 stem cells 00:37:31 like that episode of south park 00:37:34 like how has she not worked herself to death 00:37:37 how old is she, hm... 00:37:59 ...well, at least she wasn't alive during WWII 00:38:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:38:04 hmm I guess that might be ingrained sexism because I don't really think the same about obama or whatever who obviously does unreasonable fuckloads of stuff too 00:38:10 Bike: haha 00:38:19 "it's the little things" 00:38:23 well obama was a senator 00:38:30 so was clinton 00:38:40 yeah, but she's done lots of other stuff 00:38:45 yeah 00:38:50 is what i meant 00:38:57 s/obama/anyone who works a lot/ really 00:39:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:39:11 for example that whole "secretary" gig 00:39:18 wasn't clinton kind of bad when she ran for president last time 00:39:24 memories are hard 00:39:28 You mean in 2008? 00:39:47 her advisors did not seem to have a full grasp of the primary / caucus system 00:39:59 does anyone? (I sure don't) 00:40:22 most of my friends were pretty pissed at her because we all wanted Obama to get the nomination, but then we pretty much didn't care once that was over 00:40:35 Bike: hopefully paid political advisors at the highest level of national politics do 00:40:42 ;P 00:40:50 anyway, they had a much worse understanding than obama's people 00:41:06 personally i can barely grasp the electoral college... 00:41:19 i made some decent money day-trading primary election contracts on InTrade 00:42:00 kmc: right it is like the other candidate for the same party with the same general policies is satan because they are opposing your preferred candidate :P 00:42:13 yeah 00:42:20 but then your candidate gets picked and they're a valuable ally in the fight against satan (the other party) 00:42:24 their policies were pretty amusingly close really 00:42:40 the main difference I guess is that Obama was opposed to the Iraq War early on 00:42:57 Something something Nader something 00:43:03 important because 2008 was all about who could be the least like George W. Bush 00:43:13 something something ron pauuuuul something 00:43:22 i wanna be the very best, like no-one ever was 00:43:26 RON PAUL gotta catch em all 00:43:33 Ron Paul: apply directly to the forehead 00:43:42 ok i'm done 00:43:48 L 00:43:48 A 00:43:49 T 00:43:49 E 00:43:50 R 00:43:52 S 00:43:55 *mic drop* 00:44:03 what would we do without you kmc 00:44:05 i'm sorry 00:48:22 I am going to eat dinner now rather than later because I did not eat breakfast 00:48:27 I think I might have food issues 00:49:13 wait didn't you already do college, shouldn't you be used to a shitty dietary schedule 00:53:21 College helped me. There's a sandwich place where I would go buy a sandwich 00:53:33 When I had school 00:54:01 oh, there's an IIS workalike for mod_rewrite, I wonder if it's similar enough that my rewrite stuff works 00:59:35 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:00:15 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 01:06:51 http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/Barry_Obama_lg.jpg NB: "choom" is hawaiian slang for "smoking the marijuana dope" 01:08:22 "not bad" 01:15:13 you should all be saving screenshots of embarassing stuff from your friends' facebook pages, in case one of them ever becomes president 01:15:30 either that, or don't do that at all and never log into facebook because it's terrible 01:15:31 I fail to see the embarrassing in that image. 01:18:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:18:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:18:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:20:01 oh no presidents that have been normal people once D: 01:20:05 uh hello?? drugs?? 01:23:48 bike: I’m sure plenty of presidents have used alcohol, too. 01:24:21 but alcohol is a good american drug 01:24:28 ion, you're not american, are you. 01:24:52 we have all these exciting insane mores that you guys just don't GET, man 01:26:33 imo we should circlejerk about this some more 01:26:47 I'd prefer an actual circlejerk. 01:27:40 maaaaan 01:28:28 hard to do that over IRC 01:28:34 If your friends have any remote chance of becoming president of the united states, you should find better friends 01:29:00 oh well, by the time obama leaves office, support for legalization could be close to 2/3 01:29:32 huh, really? 01:29:58 Marijuana legalization has been making rather profound progress in the court of public opinion. 01:30:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:32:24 http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/10/19/us/politics/fivethirtyeight-1019-firstpot/fivethirtyeight-1019-firstpot-blog480.png 01:33:08 2/3 might be a stretch but maybe 60%+ 01:33:56 cool 01:34:45 i think [UNINFORMED SPECULATION BY PROGRAMMER ABOUT SOCIAL SCIENCE AHEAD!] there may be a cascade effect with these kind of social norms 01:35:29 you're more likely to support legalization if you have a few friends who openly support it and aren't degenerate dope-addled hippies 01:35:46 i need more degenerate dope-addled hippie friends 01:35:50 kmc: wanna be one 01:35:58 i'm a phony :( 01:36:06 but yes i will be your friend elliott 01:36:23 oh boy 01:36:26 I've never had a friend before!! 01:37:09 also i love the dip on that graph as the baby boomers get old and start deciding that all the stuff /they/ enjoyed as kids is now scary and wrong when their own kids do it 01:37:13 truly, the worst generation 01:38:11 the hypocrates 01:38:16 *-e 01:39:14 kmc: almost as bad as every other generation 01:40:22 well in the american popular conception of generations, the boomers didn't do anything worthwhile like fight nazis 01:40:27 however this might be grossly unfair 01:41:41 well ai gree baby boomers are shit 01:41:51 but I'm not sure I can extend that to agreeing that not everything else is shit 01:41:56 yeah 01:42:20 "generations" concept is pretty bullshit 01:42:33 every time i see a NYT article about "millenials" i puke a little in my mouth 01:43:02 is the cut off date for millenials 2000? or if you're a bit older do you still count as Today's Mixed-Up Teens 01:43:23 i think millenials are 20something now 01:43:47 stereotypically, unemployed overeducated 20somethings who live with their parents after college 01:44:16 current generation is "Generation Z" and they are zombies 01:44:34 i'm a zombie 01:44:35 sounds accurate 01:44:38 do i count as generation z 01:45:27 Did they seriously just count up from "Generation X"? 01:45:33 Bike: Yes. 01:46:04 god, if you're going to use some bizarre-ass model of human growth at least have cool names for it 01:46:21 blame douglas coupland 01:46:25 what comes after generation z 01:46:30 ñ 01:46:31 nuclear annihilation 01:46:33 also isn't douglas coupland an anarchocapitalist 01:46:41 that is like the one thing i know about douglas coupland & i don't even know if it's true 01:46:44 oh man i am so up for blaming ancaps for things 01:46:49 yes 01:46:53 good life principles 01:47:56 "A specific feature of Coupland's novels is their synthesis of postmodern religion, Web 2.0 technology, human sexuality, and pop culture." 01:48:08 "He published his twelfth novel Generation A in 2009." oh /shit/ 01:48:25 i don't eactually know if he is an anarchocapitalist or bad or whatever 01:48:29 my memory is not terribly great 01:48:31 except about useless things 01:48:40 "It takes place in a near future, in a world in which bees have become extinct." 01:48:40 yeah it doesn't look like he is 01:49:18 so we're all dead or what 01:49:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Couplandart.jpg this is actually kinda neat 01:49:39 though it's kind of weird to sculpt something about that war in 2008? 02:11:41 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:19:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:24:33 Bike: what about existential types. comments on a postcard because I am leaving NOW lambdabot messages is @tell 02:25:10 @tell elliott i don't know, monqy said to ask you about them? i was wondering what they were for. also this may be some kind of plot 02:25:11 Consider it noted. 02:28:37 @tell elliott. @telliott. 02:28:37 Consider it noted. 02:33:44 -!- ogrom has joined. 02:35:48 @telliott 02:35:48 Unknown command, try @list 02:45:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:11:03 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 03:36:54 SQLite cannot create triggers on virtual tables, and cannot use ALTER TABLE and so on to rename views and triggers. 03:37:31 hi zzo38 03:38:57 ho38 03:39:03 But it might still be possible to do some of these things using the sqlite_master table. 03:43:45 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:45:07 i didnt know azaq23 hung out here also 03:46:18 Such things, as well as ADD COLUMN triggers on views, may be useful if you are making a view to override a table, and want to allow it to be further overridden. 03:55:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:55:46 -!- DH____ has joined. 03:58:50 -!- md_5 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:58:59 I suppose a lot of these things aren't that important and may be a bit difficult to implement, but you really should be allowed to rename a view. 04:00:29 -!- monqy has joined. 04:03:49 -!- md_5 has joined. 04:19:59 wow, apparently even if you have perfectly working internet, pidgin will refuse to connect to anything if network-manager thinks you don't have internet 04:21:03 That doesn't make sense, especially if you will want to connect to your own computer. 04:21:24 Why does Pidgin even know about network-manager? 04:22:17 I remember having problems of some kind that were fixed by switching network managers 04:22:31 I think it wasn't Pidgin related though. I was having connection trouble period 04:22:38 Using a different network manager fixed it 04:23:26 pikhq: beats me 04:23:36 probably so that it can do clever things like reconnect when you switch wifi access points 04:25:44 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:31:21 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:35:58 also if the rfkill switch for the PCIe WiFi card is enabled, then network-manager refuses to touch the USB WiFi card even though the linux rfkill subsystem says it's fine 04:36:23 which is bad news because on this system the PCIe rfkill switch is stuck on, which is why the USB WiFi in the first place ;P 04:37:16 Not using network-manager sounds like a good solution. 04:38:07 yeah 04:39:35 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:40:41 not to be all 90s Linux Guy but this shit is just broken, time and time again 04:41:01 doesn't complaining about things in ubuntu make you 90s Linux Guy by default 04:41:28 actually this is debian :/ 04:41:40 it's all the same shit 04:41:59 network-manager is always broken. 04:42:01 of course the flip side is that now the user of this system (not me) has to learn about ifupdown and wpa_supplicant, which definitely are less friendly to casual users than nm-applet 04:42:20 oh i remember giving up on learning wpa_supplicant once 04:42:20 but it's not a big deal for someone who's comfortable with the command line 04:42:53 kmc: What about wicd? 04:42:56 I heard it was OK once. 04:43:00 i didn't try it 04:43:02 i use wicd, it's ok 04:43:12 takes forever for the curses interface to boot up for what i imagine are stupid reasons 04:43:34 the dbus stuff is kinda nice though. 04:43:56 monoids are kinda nice imo 04:44:30 my friend said monoids make you impotent 04:44:37 i don't believe him but, please prepare a 3-page rebuttal 04:45:02 shachaf do you remember that time i looked up monoids and found a groups-but-less-so-but-still-not-monoids formalism used in describing concurrency? 04:45:13 you should use those for a network manager gizmo. 04:45:18 imo. 04:45:29 Bike: No. 04:45:54 Wait, what am I thinking, they're monoids but less so, rather than groups but less so. 04:45:59 So probably easier, right? 04:46:06 or harder???????? 04:46:15 imo let's just stick with monoids 04:46:19 we understand them 04:46:23 we love them 04:46:27 we know how easy they are 04:46:31 It's commutative "sometimes"!! 04:46:41 Associative? 04:46:51 Always, shachaf. Always. 04:47:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid#Partially_commutative_monoid good description imo 04:47:35 Oh. 04:47:39 That's more than a monoid, then. 04:47:54 Even easier! 04:48:10 imo nothing is easier than monoids 04:48:33 but i like commutativity :( 04:49:56 i propose we give shachaf the old Ludovico treatment, where the film is just beaky quotes over and over 04:51:35 kmc: beaky gave me that treatment long enough 04:51:40 I used to be very annoyed by beaky 04:51:46 Eventually I flipped. 04:52:14 Is he some kind of criminal mastermind? 04:52:21 He's corrupted you... 04:53:34 i have joined the cult of beaky 04:53:47 it was easy so easy 04:53:50 i love it 04:54:00 * Bike backs away slowly, forming the sign of the cross 04:54:43 shachaf is cured all right 04:55:34 I'm addicted to reading about EVE 04:55:44 EVE is the new Sgeolang 04:56:25 Does EVE have a scripting language? It should have a scripting language based on the stock market. 04:57:07 ah, i do love cargo cult technical analysis 04:57:09 it is so easy 04:57:38 When's that quoted from? 04:57:57 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 04:58:05 the past 04:58:13 Whoa. 04:58:28 I was looking for a thing kmc said once but I guess it must've been in -blah 04:58:52 i `love` infix 04:59:16 Wow, this is like reading beaky logs. 04:59:17 not bad 04:59:24 i love (===) 04:59:30 i love counterexamples :) 04:59:34 i love <(...) redirection 04:59:43 i love lightweight threads 04:59:45 kmc......... 04:59:55 * shachaf stops 05:00:05 I guess we've uncovered beaky's secret identity. 05:00:19 Or maybe that's beaky's non-secret identity. 05:00:35 I'm going to have to burn down this whole channel to remove the taint. 05:06:12 i love burning irc channels 05:12:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:14:17 -!- Bike has joined. 05:19:49 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 05:20:18 howdy folks 05:20:23 it's been a while 05:20:36 `wehlcohme RodgerTheGreat 05:20:38 RohdgehrThehGreaht: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 05:20:57 hilarious 05:24:20 Hi RodgerTheGreat 05:24:29 how's it going, Sgeo? 05:24:55 Good. I have been paying attention in another channel where you happen to be 05:25:03 There is no non-weird way to phrase that, is there 05:25:41 well I mean what's not to like about concatenative languages amirite 05:26:17 stack shuffling 05:26:26 :: 05:26:56 This kills the space=composition 05:27:12 I used to hang out in this channel a few years ago and it just occurred to me that the only reason I stopped was because I was too lazy to log into freenode in addition to the other server I frequent. Except now I'm on freenode all the time too. 05:27:47 alternate answer to stack shuffling: factor better 05:29:05 it's not even that hard to write stack code 05:29:13 I think I've written like 600 lines of forth today 05:29:18 naturally that means it's crap 05:29:22 but it does work 05:30:10 it is surprising how often my code does work 05:30:34 Maybe random Forth programs have a better chance of working than random Clojure programs. 05:31:07 at the very least I can say that random strings have a better chance of being valid forth programs than valid clojure programs 05:31:54 Creatures SVRules was designed with that in mind I think 05:32:15 A programming language where random mutations shouldn't cause syntax errors 05:33:04 http://creatureswiki.net/wiki/Brain#A_note_from_the_programmer 05:33:13 yeah, I just found that page 05:33:34 Are there any esolangs on the wiki based off of DNA transcription? 05:34:26 I guess you need all the proteins and general systemic systemitude to get "the full unbrittle experience" 05:34:39 well there are quite a few fungeoids which might be suitable 05:34:55 Suitable for what? 05:35:11 for being evolved via random mutation without utterly exploding 05:35:31 at least not *always* utterly exploding 05:35:31 Oh. 05:36:09 Sgeo: An assemblyish language doesn't seem like the best way to do that, but it's way better I guess. And apparently worked. 05:36:25 I think it would be nice to have a graphical hill-climbing demo generating piet programs 05:36:44 Later Creatures engines don't seem to allow for brain mutations :( 05:37:17 Once made a genome where I set the brain genes to be allowed to mutate... the brain never mutated... wait, those are the genes, not the SVRules on the genes that I was looking at mutationwise 05:38:21 so if you had brain mutations what are the odds that you end up with a norn who just spins around in a circle until he dies or something like that 05:38:34 or is incapable of learning the word for food 05:38:57 Well they're still based on neurons aren't they? Shitloads of redundancy. 05:39:08 I don't think vocab stuff is stored in the brain as such 05:39:41 So you'd get a norn that just spun around in a circle on alternate tuesdays. 05:39:42 It's easy to modify the brain to, say, make them blind, or make them killing machines enslaved by a dendrite in their brain that, no matter what they want to do, forces them to "hit norn" 05:40:01 Don't know the chance of a random mutation doing that though 05:40:14 Sgeo: I'm torn between thinking that's terrible and thinking that's fucking great 05:41:02 I've done it. Watched two of them fight. Often one would be terrified but they couldn't run away. 05:41:14 Fun game, huh. 05:41:25 this is some doctor moreau shit right here 05:42:07 arguably much darker than the way people generally play The Sims, because at least in that case you aren't prying open their skulls and rewiring their brains 05:42:14 Also fun: Trying to make them produce ATP exponentially and seeing how much ATP Decoupler it now takes to kill them 05:42:25 ahahaha 05:42:32 What the hell, man. 05:42:44 Lemme see if I still have a pic 05:43:13 it simply never occurred to me to try these things 05:43:30 RodgerTheGreat, you're a Creatures fan? 05:43:46 I played Creatures 2 a fair bit many years ago 05:44:10 * Sgeo is C3/DS focused 05:44:17 Never tried the other games 05:45:50 have you tried using these surgically-altered supersoldier norns to kill grendels? 05:46:09 http://i.imgur.com/CcRPqzy.png 05:47:11 I don't know if the latest versions I have lying around are set to hit all creatures or just norns 05:47:14 I think all creatures 05:47:36 I also made them stronger (in terms of being less vulnerable), not sure if they're perfect though 05:47:44 So they should be able to defeat grendels 05:47:59 can you make them incapable of feeling pain 05:48:42 Yes, although I'm not sure whether trying to keep the chemical at 0 is sufficient, or if I'd need to clear the relevant neuron before the brain processes, or what 05:49:08 But why would I want to do that? It's not like the brain is going to process pain significantly differently from, say, severe boredom 05:49:28 Arguably pain feels better than boredom, because pain and fear cause the other drives to go down 05:49:46 hunh 05:50:23 do they just curl up in a ball if you wire them to always be in pain, then? 05:50:36 They make the "ow" sound repeatedly 05:50:40 And have a sad look on their face 05:50:46 man 05:51:13 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Antinorn. 05:51:19 (Note: Not the real AntiNorn) 05:51:33 Are there sim games that don't bring out the Milgram in all of us 05:51:47 I think that when brain-uploading becomes feasible at some point in the distant future there are going to be some absolutely monstrous games made as a result 05:52:13 People have made death threats to norn torturers 05:52:21 I believe it 05:52:32 they are cute and good at eliciting empathetic responses in humans 05:52:54 presumably on some level to discourage players from torturing them to death 05:53:27 Which do you feel would cause more of a response: Commands to cause norns to make sounds like they're miserable and in pain but don't actually feel it, or commands to cause pain in the norns that doesn't get expressed outwardly? 05:54:21 Breed I made once: The badniks. (Took name suggestion from someone). Basically a norn in a toy robot body 05:54:39 They can't eat or play with toys, for all the world they are a toy, but their brain is still active, suffering 05:55:10 ... Jebus. 05:55:11 Antinorn: maybe your username should be "AM" 05:55:33 I don't get it? 05:55:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_No_Mouth,_and_I_Must_Scream 05:57:44 Seriously though, what the hell. 05:57:54 Did you pick the wings off of flies? 05:59:51 Their brains are very simple, I find it unlikely that there's actually a conscious experience 06:00:29 Although admittedly I am uncertain as to what sort of programming it would take before there's a real moral question 06:00:35 I still don't pick the wings off of flies. 06:00:48 I'm talking about norn brains, not fly brains 06:01:04 You think flies are conscious? 06:01:06 fly brains are admittedly many orders of magnitude more complex than norn brains 06:03:18 -!- monqy has joined. 06:03:39 Hi monqy. The entire channel seems to think I'm a sociopath. 06:03:50 hi 06:04:01 Do you torture ancient Chinese friendship monqys? 06:04:15 not to my knowledge 06:04:16 I think a Han emperor shot for immortality that way. 06:04:20 I'm not really taking a stance either way 06:05:51 I've done good things to norns 06:06:06 feel free to provide examples 06:06:16 Wrote an agent that stops them from using the Holistic Learning Machine more than once, which is good because they tend to get addicted 06:06:50 http://exploringtheark.livejournal.com/2840.html 06:06:54 (Search for Sgeo) 06:07:46 I think the Xia dynasty is more interesting than the Han though. 06:08:06 I've made norns incapable of hitting norns, and norns incapable of hitting any creature 06:08:11 I should probably know more about Creatures. My friends played it when I was a kid and it's all very noncognitivistish AI. 06:08:35 It's not too late to start playing (it is too late to get an account) 06:08:40 Doesn't one of the guys behind it have a reasonably high-traffic blog? I think I remember reading one of his entries about today's mixed-up teens. 06:08:44 What systems is it for? 06:08:48 And why would I need an account. 06:08:53 Antinorn: does the process to make them abhor violence involve classical music and eyedrops? 06:09:10 http://creaturesdockingstation.com/ 06:09:13 RodgerTheGreat: ^5 06:09:15 Two independent clockwork references in one night! Whoa, man. 06:09:39 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:09:54 You'd need an account to let norns travel the warp: That is, sending norns to others, receiving them, or making portals that let norns choose to leave for other worlds on their own 06:10:08 Antinorn: Oh, cool link, thanks. 06:10:13 yw 06:10:15 -!- Antinorn has changed nick to Sgeo. 06:10:46 RodgerTheGreat: Also, welcome back to the magical land of #esoteric. Some people no doubt missed you. :P 06:11:07 I suppose that is vaguely possible 06:11:09 Bike, you'll need the DS Offline Option (which is linked on the page) 06:11:38 -!- noam__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:01 -!- noam__ has joined. 06:12:04 Oh boy, I love applying patches. 06:12:34 RodgerTheGreat: Don't know if I've kept you updated on the sheer madness that Egobot has become. 06:12:41 Well, more to the point, HackEgo. 06:12:52 It's really simple, it's just putting the files in the correct directories 06:12:53 it said hello earlier 06:13:07 Although the readme seems to assume you're on Windows 06:13:16 Sgeo: "the trick is to bang the rocks together, guys" 06:13:18 `run echo `which welcome` 06:13:19 ​/hackenv/bin/welcome 06:13:25 BLAH 06:13:28 `run cat `which welcome` 06:13:29 XD 06:13:30 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 06:13:31 Well, I'm also used to software not working on Linux. 06:13:39 Bike, this should work on Linux 06:13:45 I think that says it all. 06:13:48 I mean in relation to your readme comment. 06:13:53 Oh 06:14:03 So, I'll try it later. 06:14:13 I wonder if 90s vintage software will actually function on this thing. 06:14:18 monoids are so easy :') 06:14:30 hi shachaf 06:14:35 shachaf, norns aren't associative in that way! 06:14:35 oh no 06:14:36 On Windows, it insists on being High Color (16-bit) 06:14:44 monqy: that one was dispproval wasn't it 06:14:49 shachaf: : ) 06:14:58 was that a : ) of yes 06:15:01 Gregor: still writing horrifying and amazing things in javascript? 06:15:06 Sgeo: hah. 06:15:09 shachaf: yes 06:15:20 was that a yes of yes 06:15:20 This is more 2001 vintage software I think 06:15:22 or a yes of no 06:17:59 RodgerTheGreat: Since he seems to not be around right now: short story "yes, but not all Javascript". 06:18:07 https://bitbucket.org/GregorR His bitbucket is fun. 06:19:03 "The necessary components, adapted from OpenSolaris, to build working binaries for AT&T UNIX System V/386 Release 4.0 with no original C compiler system (i.e., no headers, no .a files, no crt files)." what 06:19:47 RodgerTheGreat: You may also like his IOCCC winner: http://www.ioccc.org/2011/richards/richards.c 06:20:19 Oh, christ, that was him? 06:20:20 I'm wondering if/when someone looking for Haskell monad tutorials will accidentally stumble on the APL/J description of monads 06:20:24 Yes. 06:20:34 Sgeo: god, i hope so 06:21:11 nice 06:21:57 'monad' is so horribly overloaded im confident someone has heard about 'monads in haskell' and thought it's some philosophy junk 06:22:21 horribly confused but probably at a less harmful level than the result of a bad monad tutorial? 06:22:52 hey, nuthin wrong with some random nerd learning about Leibniz, right? 06:24:00 a term for Divinity or the first being, or the totality of all beings,[citation needed] Monad being the source or the One meaning without division. 06:24:38 monqy: are you divinity 06:24:42 no 06:25:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:25:24 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Leibniz_Monadology_2.jpg manuscript on "monadology", by leibniz 06:25:42 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:25:52 is that leibniz's handwriting 06:25:59 i can't even read it 06:26:06 imo dijkstra's was better 06:26:44 for example: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd10xx/EWD1094.PDF 06:26:45 dijkstra's was great from a fairly objective standpoint 06:26:46 Monads are manifest, since they are everywhere, and there is no extension without monads 06:27:06 monqy: no that's comonads............. 06:27:07 That is a ridiculously neat hand. 06:27:14 fountain pens, man 06:27:21 fountain pens and giving a damn 06:27:54 Sometimes I wish I had handwriting as good as EWD's. 06:28:32 But even if I got a fountain pen, I wouldn't be able to do the other half for very long 06:29:09 The monadology thing is pretty hilarious actually 06:29:30 it's like atomic theory if atoms were sapient and couldn't talk and took up no space ("extension") 06:30:21 'later folks 06:30:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Quit: RodgerTheGreat). 06:33:52 * pikhq spends more time in awe at EWD's handwriting 06:52:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:53:04 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:53:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:10:30 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:19:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:24:52 -!- aloril has joined. 07:49:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:49:49 -!- DH____ has joined. 08:01:05 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:05:28 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:39:42 Aw shit, I just saw how difference lists are implemented 08:39:49 Or at least, one implementation 08:40:07 Uh oh. 08:40:10 Everyone stand back. 08:40:38 * FreeFull eats a sandwich 08:44:05 monqy: what does sky mean 08:44:14 is it good 08:44:17 hi 08:44:35 oh no 08:45:48 shachaf : monqy : [] 08:45:58 hi??? 08:46:09 Trapped you in a list 08:51:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:52:55 -!- carado has joined. 08:58:48 Maybe looking at the list of languages on RosettaCode may not be a good idea for me 08:58:56 oh? 08:59:55 Feed my language addiction 09:00:39 Maybe you should quit, Sgeo. 09:11:01 most of those languages are probably bad anyway 09:11:22 All languages are bad. 09:11:27 Except Ada??????? 09:11:35 Sgeo: imo ada should be your next language 09:12:55 Tip of the day: languages that a Sgeo uses are commonly called "Sganguages". 09:13:34 What do we call the languages Sgeo talks about but never actually uses for anything? 09:19:03 Sgunges, I think. 09:19:24 I mean, I think I've seen a few papers on the evolution of the sganguage-sgunge ratio. 09:25:59 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:43:22 "As concurrency is part of the language specification, the compiler can in some cases detect potential deadlocks." 09:44:01 "Ada also supports run-time checks to protect against ... off-by-one errors"? 09:44:04 o.O 09:44:22 Presumably just those that result in out-of-bounds access, or ... what? 09:44:37 i dunno man it's p.crazy 09:45:09 you can say "stuff like" type T is range 1 .. 100; 09:45:14 "lets see haskell do that??" 09:46:28 "Ada is a structured programming language, meaning that the flow of control is structured into standard statements." 09:46:44 Is this Wikipedia article written from the point of view of a person in the ancient past? 09:46:48 maybe 09:46:57 ada is modern though!!! 09:46:59 Are you from the past? 09:47:06 guess what the latest version of ada is 09:47:10 ^^apply British accent 09:47:13 answer ada 2012 09:47:28 c++ is only at 11 09:47:32 Also I should watch more IT Crowd 09:47:35 this one goes up to 12 09:49:21 2012 and it still doesn't have a turing-complete type system 09:49:35 Son I'm disappoint 09:50:48 So GNAT Programming Studio is a well-known IDE for Ada but it can also be used for Python 09:50:48 hmm 09:52:06 Your next language should totally be Ada. 09:52:10 That would be great. 09:52:41 shachaf, if it is, it is entirely your fault 09:56:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:03:22 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:09:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:26:46 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:39:22 coppro: So can you tell me about things that are corepresentable by a costrong copprofunctor? 10:39:41 he uld 10:40:02 coerjan 10:40:35 Type coerjan 10:42:27 no mment 10:43:00 @quote \bco 10:43:00 lispy says: I think communicating with aliens will make unicode obsolete :( 10:43:12 @quote \bco.*\bco 10:43:12 ddarius says: Alternatively, it could be arrived at from the continuity properties of exponentials. 10:43:22 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:43:22 ndm says: i once had a boss who complained because some code someone had written crashed, and yet "it clearly says in the company coding guidelines not to write code that crashes" 10:43:24 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:43:33 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:43:33 quicksilver says: < quicksilver> C++ templates can embed arbitrary computation at compile time < quicksilver> that alone tells you something about the complexity of the compiler < edwardk> yeah. 10:43:33 they were accidentally turing complete. (whoops!) ;) < quicksilver> edwardk: OOPS I ACCIDENTALLY THE WHOLE TARPIT 10:43:52 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:43:52 says: From "Inventing computer games with Python": "Copying and pasting text is a very useful computer skill, especially for computer programming. There is a video tutorial on copying and 10:43:52 pasting at this book's website at http://inventwithpython.com/videos/." 10:44:07 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:44:07 says: From "Inventing computer games with Python": "Copying and pasting text is a very useful computer skill, especially for computer programming. There is a video tutorial on copying and 10:44:07 pasting at this book's website at http://inventwithpython.com/videos/." 10:44:11 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:44:11 No quotes match. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist! 10:44:17 That's too many cos. That's just ridiculous. 10:44:49 @quote \bco[^m].*\bco[^m].*\bco[^m] 10:44:49 luite says: *amacleod started excising GOTOs from his BASIC code when he was 10. *roconnor started excising GOTOs from his Pascal code when he was 11. *luite used goto's in his C code last year. 10:45:04 Is that a sin? 10:46:03 GO TO, I'LL NO MORE ON'T 10:47:23 @quote shift.reset 10:47:24 therp says: good morning. I think I have been dreaming of shift/reset continuations... 10:47:33 @quote shift.*reset 10:47:33 therp says: good morning. I think I have been dreaming of shift/reset continuations... 10:47:55 @quote \bco[^d].*\bco[^d].*\bco[^d] 10:47:55 edwardk says: People are strange, when you're a shapr, faces look ugly when you're alone, women seem wicked when you're unwanted, streets are all uphill when you're a clown. when you're straaaange 10:47:55 no one remembers your name... coz its changed...coz its changed.. coz its... chaaannnngeed. 10:48:36 @quote \bco[^d].*\bco[^d].*\bco[^d] 10:48:37 CharlesBabbage says: On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind 10:48:37 of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. 10:48:45 @quote \bco[^du].*\bco[^du].*\bco[^du] 10:48:46 Igloo says: Did hugs' ./configure always end with "config.status: executing ultra-evil commands"? 10:49:04 @quote \bco[a-z]+\s+co[a-z]+\s+co 10:49:04 No quotes match. Have you considered trying to match wits with a rutabaga? 10:49:16 @quote \bco[a-z]+\s+co 10:49:16 elliott says: i'm here to prove theorems and compile code and I'm all out of code 10:50:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Coearlier). 10:55:03 I remember reading through some C code recently and thinking "this would be much clearer with goto" 10:55:17 (it was a break out of a multilevel for loop by setting the control variables) 10:55:36 I think the more refined rule of "never use gotos to jump backwards or into blocks" is probably a better one to teach people 10:55:41 forwards and out of blocks is OK 10:56:23 goto is so good that you have to train people not to use it. 11:10:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:10:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:11:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:25:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:53:21 wow, I just saw some of the most muddled Java code ever 11:53:49 it opened the same file for both read and (non-append) write, then attempted to do a cat from one to the other at the same time as attempting to do the actual exercise 11:54:27 and contained about three nested loops, two of which both looped over lines of the file, and one of which was a standard "i=0;i and nothing in the body but a single print statement 11:54:53 (ofc it was unreachable, because a file opened for write doesn't contain any lines) 12:03:23 Sounds like an enterprice data migration solution 12:08:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:08:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:08:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:44:45 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:02:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:07:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:13:12 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:16:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:16:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:16:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:29:50 -!- boily has joined. 15:00:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:18:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Brigstocke 15:18:10 wow 15:18:14 good photography there wp 15:33:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:33:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:48:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:49:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:00:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:53:36 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:09:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:14:47 ais523: i don't think anyone disagrees with that use of goto 17:27:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:31:21 !bf_txtgen Bye 17:31:27 ​60 +++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>.>++.>-. [238] 17:32:29 boring. 17:32:34 !bf_txtgen nowadays 17:32:36 ​82 +++++++++++[>+>++++++++++>+++++++++><<<<-]>>.+.++++++++.>--.+++.---.<++.------.<-. [247] 17:32:52 does it even produce nested loops? 17:32:57 !bf_txtgen produce 17:33:00 ​72 ++++++++++[>+++++++++++>++++++++++>+><<<<-]>++.++.---.>.<++++++.>-.++.>. [760] 17:33:10 !bf_txtgen The producer produced 17:33:12 ​177 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>.++++++++++++++++++++.---.>>>++++.<.++.<-.-----------.>+++.<-.<.>>---.>.<--.++.---.<+.>++++++.<-.++.-.>>----------------------. [447] 17:41:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:41:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:41:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:47:30 No. 17:49:09 It's always (+)*n [>(+)*a >(+)*b >(+)*c >(+)*d] and then a sequence of <>+-. 17:49:23 Er, with <<<<- in the (only) loop too. 17:49:40 Quite often that means there's a >><< in the loop. 17:49:55 (The Java program it's based on has the number of cells used as a configurable option.) 17:50:01 !bf_txtgen aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 17:50:03 ​68 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>+>+<<<<-]>+......>+...<......>..>--. [458] 17:50:30 Well, that was unexpectedly bad. 17:50:35 !bf_txtgen aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 17:50:37 ​65 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>+....>+.............>--. [723] 17:50:44 And that's not much better. 17:50:54 The version in the bot has quite a low count of generations. 17:59:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:20:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:21:08 !bf_txtgen é? 18:21:11 ​71 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>.>--.>---. [789] 18:21:25 !bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>.>--.>---. 18:21:27 ​é? 18:21:31 ah! :D 18:21:38 it works even with fake letters! 18:22:28 -!- DH____ has joined. 18:22:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:22:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:27:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:32:12 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:32:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:33:58 !bf_txtgen ー 18:34:02 ​86 ++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++++++>+<<<<-]>-.>-.>----.>--. [899] 18:34:43 !bf_txtgen 私のホバークラフトは鰻で一杯です. 18:34:45 ​854 ++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>>-.<---.<----.>.>>------.<<<.>++.>------------.<<.>.>-----------.<<.>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>--------------.>+.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+.<<----------------------------------------------------------.>>>.<.++++++++++++++++++.<.>------------------.+++++.<.>-------.++++++ 18:34:54 not bad. 18:36:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:36:56 Your hovercraft is full of eels? 18:37:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:38:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:38:55 One would generally write that without the kanji for "unagi" FWIW. 18:39:29 So, 「私のホバークラフトはウナギで一杯です。」 18:39:52 Maybe also いっぱい instead of 一杯, but eh 18:40:22 !bf_txtgen 私のホバークラフトはウナギで一杯です。 18:40:24 Thaaar 18:40:25 ​744 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++>++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++++.>-.>+++.<<----.>>.>++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++.<------------.<.>>.<-----------.>>.<.<<---------------------------------------.>>>.<<--------------.<-------------.>>>.<.<<------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>.++++++++++++++++++.<<.>+.+++++.<.>-------.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>+.>---------.<<.>+.+++++++.<. 18:42:01 !bf_txtgen おいししそう 18:42:05 ​144 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++>+<<<<-]>+++.>+++.>--.<<.>.+++.<.>---.>+++++++++++++.<<.>.>.<<.>.>++++++.<<.>.+++++.>>----. [965] 18:42:07 -typo 18:42:28 Two; that sucker's usually kanji: 美味しそう 18:43:58 http://zem.fi/esostats/people_stats.html PLORTS 18:44:18 Whoops, I forgot to update the

. 18:46:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:47:56 somebody wanted to screw up your x statistics. 18:47:57 It Must Be A Coincidence[tm]: HackEgo has a giant peak at characters-per-message = 10; the string "No output." has ten characters. 18:48:05 http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_x.html 18:48:45 'Whenever I see people say "lib/lab/con parties are the same, I'm voting UKIP" I read it as "coke and pepsi are the same, I'm drinking piss"' 18:49:19 mroman: The peaks there are things like http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-25#163851fungot for example. 18:49:19 fizzie: i'm not such fan of stacks, probably because he was expelled and couldn't sit his exam that he was going to 18:50:09 stacks proved that he was unable to form an orderly queue 18:53:40 pikhq: I like my eels kanjied, even if common usage disagrees. 18:53:57 Fine, whatevs. 18:54:24 I just like having an excuse to not remember the animal kanji. :P 18:55:41 when I handwrite it, I use katakanas cause my penmanship is abysmally bad. 18:56:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:56:44 Oddly, my Japanese handwriting is halfway decent. 18:57:24 I have this handicap called "left handedness". 18:57:29 Aaaah. 18:59:14 (Burn the witch!) 18:59:49 魔女燃やして! 19:03:13 eeeh... I think, last time I checked, that I'm far from being on the 女 side of humanity. 19:03:38 Could be trans and not know it? :P 19:06:42 -!- monqy has joined. 19:11:49 * boily はpikhqを大きなニジマスでひっぱたく。 19:12:38 Smartass. 19:14:29 * boily whistles innocently... ♪ 19:15:53 共産主義の話をやめる、我々は戦争に勝った。 19:16:34 Google Translate I assume? 19:16:47 ARE YOU CHALLENGING MY JAPANESE PROWESS 19:17:13 Yes, but that ended up being a remarkably understandable translation. 19:17:35 Not quite *right*, but remarkably understandable. 19:18:03 "Stop the communist talk; we beat you in the war." or some such 19:18:49 boily: So. 19:18:53 @left handed 19:18:53 TemplateHaskell is not enabled 19:19:02 I am too. 19:19:09 pikhq: Considering that what I entered was grammatically incorrect, that's pretty good. 19:19:13 it's actually pretty awesome that they write from right to left. 19:19:14 "Stop talking communist, we won the war." 19:19:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:19:36 the stroke order however is right handed. 19:19:45 Gregor: What it jacked up was it didn't use the imperative at all. 19:20:12 Gregor: "(someone) stops talking communist, we won the war" is more what the Japanese actually says. 19:20:25 If it didn't use the imperative, then didn't it really say something more like "You st—right. 19:27:10 let a = max {n, m} and b = min {n, m} 19:27:10 find q and r in a = q*b + r ; now compute the same with b = a and a = r until r = 0 19:27:30 Is this a recursive or iterative way of writing the Euclidean algorithm? 19:38:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:42:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:42:32 -!- Bike has joined. 19:57:30 does that matter? 19:57:41 you can implement it recursive 19:57:43 or iterative 19:57:49 But the way I formulated it 19:57:55 was that recursive or iterative 19:57:59 these are bijective. 19:58:07 well 19:58:10 until sounds iterative 19:58:35 hm, edge condition for recursion? 19:59:03 actually I think it is somehow iterative in that way, but on the other hand it seems recursive 19:59:16 the are the same as far as I'm concerned. 19:59:18 *they 19:59:40 for i = 0; i < 10; i ++ { i++;} 19:59:46 is that recursive or iterative? 19:59:55 iterative 20:00:09 ok 20:00:19 oh 20:00:22 *j++ 20:00:23 you clearly wrote the interation step: i++ 20:00:27 *iteration 20:00:32 so 20:00:39 let i = 0; 20:01:08 yes, but now you could formulate it different 20:01:12 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:15 and it would do the same thing, only in a recursive way 20:01:35 increment j and i as long as i is smaller than 10 20:01:40 is that recursive or iterative? 20:01:43 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:01:47 According to wikipedia, you need: 20:01:48 A simple base case (or cases), and A set of rules which reduce all other cases toward the base case. 20:02:13 although mathematical iteration is defined as applying a function to itself 20:02:36 AnotherTest: iterative == tail recursive, essentially 20:02:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:03:02 I'd go with an algorithm is an algorithm and you can implement it either recursive or iterative 20:03:19 oerjan: aha, and the example I gave was tail recursive 20:03:36 that would explain my confusion 20:04:19 although it should be noted that usual I don't know what I'm talking about 20:04:19 mroman: I agree, but I was just wondering about this particular formulation of the algorithm 20:04:24 *usually 20:05:33 suppose the following algorithm: 20:05:33 compute b = a + 1 and then make the same calculation with b 20:06:11 I guess that would be f(x) = x+1, f(f(f(...(x)...))) 20:06:24 So it can be seen as iterative 20:06:55 But you can also see it as f(x) = f(x -1) + 1 20:07:05 which is recursive 20:07:27 and the way I formulate didn't really tell whether or not I mean the former or the latter 20:07:54 although would it be a problem if the function took 2 parameters? 20:08:08 Well I guess you could still do function composition 20:18:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:43:26 -!- augur has joined. 20:50:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:10:35 -!- j4kudl4ty has joined. 21:10:36 -!- j4kudl4ty has quit (Excess Flood). 21:20:27 #django is like 10:1 questions:answers :( 21:22:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:58 ##questionsonly is 10:0 questions:answers. 21:23:33 -!- augur has joined. 21:23:40 ##answersonly is 42 21:24:01 I see what you did there. 21:27:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:30:26 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:31:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:43:16 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:45:44 > chr . read <$> words "72 101 108 108 111 44 32 119 111 114 108 100 33 10" 21:45:46 "Hello, world!\n" 21:46:40 > chr <$> [0xC3, 0xA9] 21:46:42 "\195\169" 21:50:25 -!- ElisaL has joined. 21:51:28 `welcome ElisaL 21:51:34 hola 21:51:35 ElisaL: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:52:18 hello 21:53:34 it's a bit quiet here at the moment 21:55:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:55:39 * kmc shouts 21:55:50 plenty of voids, of unanswered mythical questions, of puzzlements, of weirdness (even if we aren't going to reach next Friday in a while), and kmces who shout. 21:56:00 * kmc shouts at fungot 21:56:01 kmc: doesn't r5rs define core features and then library functions? 21:56:06 fungot: does it? 21:56:07 kmc: yep. i'm using drscheme)? 21:56:11 ^style 21:56:11 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:56:14 ^style c64 21:56:15 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 21:56:16 * kmc shouts at fungot 21:56:17 kmc: flag1 is a one's place, then you'll be able to understand. beginning and advanced programmers leave let out because it's the lowest location used. it concludes with the crsr keys. 21:56:39 nice alliteration there 21:57:52 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:58:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:58:34 -!- azaq23 has joined. 22:04:40 -!- ElisaL has left. 22:15:10 echo $((-2**63/-1)) 22:16:04 yep 22:16:20 > -2**63/-1 22:16:21 Not in scope: `/-' 22:16:21 Perhaps you meant one of these: 22:16:21 `-' (imported from P... 22:16:27 > -2**63 / -1 22:16:29 Terminated 22:16:40 `run echo $((-2**63/-1)) 22:16:41 Floating point exception 22:17:01 Ooh, that was nasty. 22:18:46 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:19:01 fungot: You're not paying by the character, you can say "cursor" and not have to abrv it as "crsr". 22:19:01 fizzie: one of the easiest way to translate sheet music for your statements might not otherwise run in the 22:19:08 lambdabot's running on a 32bit machine? 22:19:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:19 > maxBound :: Int 22:20:20 9223372036854775807 22:20:23 64-bit 22:20:28 "terminated"? 22:20:52 hmm… is that parsed as -(2**63) or (-2)**63? 22:20:55 I guess it has to be the latter 22:21:24 boily: well (-2)**63 == (-2)**31 on a 32-bit machine 22:22:16 (-2)**63 Haskellwise is a Floating, anyway? 22:22:25 > -2**63 / -1 22:22:27 Precedence parsing error 22:22:27 cannot mix `GHC.Real./' [infixl 7] and prefix... 22:22:43 Terminated just means lambdabot timed out for whatever reason 22:23:20 > -2**63 22:23:21 -9.223372036854776e18 22:24:33 http://kqueue.org/blog/2012/12/31/idiv-dos/ -- oh ho, that's been even in PostgreSQL. 22:25:13 it was a level in the io wargame too 22:25:40 > let x = x in x 22:25:43 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:26:12 in this case it's Terminated because it got a SIGFPE signal 22:26:23 possibly caught by GHC runtime, possibly not 22:26:35 kmc: um no it isn't, it doesn't parse hth 22:26:39 hm 22:26:40 ok 22:26:43 so why that result 22:26:48 > (-2**63) / (-1) 22:26:49 9.223372036854776e18 22:26:53 hm ok 22:26:58 > ((-2**63) / (-1)) :: Int 22:26:59 No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) 22:26:59 arising from a use of... 22:27:02 duh 22:27:05 because sometimes lambdabot gives Terminated just when it's too busy 22:27:06 > ((-2**63) `div` (-1)) :: Int 22:27:08 No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) 22:27:08 arising from a use of... 22:27:21 > ((-2^63) `div` (-1)) :: Int 22:27:22 *Exception: arithmetic overflow 22:27:24 ok 22:27:34 there we are 22:27:54 kmc: fiora mentioned that there are processors that give you 0x8fffffff and 0x80000000 22:27:59 > ((-2^63) - 1) :: Int 22:28:01 9223372036854775807 22:28:04 Bike: heh 22:29:12 What about processors that give you 0x100000000 except somehow stuffed in 32 bits, maybe by making the 0s a bit less wide than usual? 22:29:27 are there such processors 22:29:27 they might burst 22:29:38 ooh, compressed integers? 22:29:45 Blorp, goes the processor, bit juice leaking all over the place. 22:29:49 most processors can't handle more than 1:1 bitcompression 22:29:55 that reminds me of the old microcomputer trick: format your tapes several times, not just one 22:30:03 each time the tape stretches a bit and you get more storage 22:30:29 and then *snap*? 22:30:40 right that was for the ZX Microdrive 22:31:26 or maybe the tapes could become vulcanizing if you stretch them, so that if you do that one time too many you end up with a solid puck of tape 22:33:24 Regular 1440k floppies you could (FSVO "could") quite well format at 1600k or 1680k for a bit of extra space. 22:34:23 (Sadly, it probably wouldn't stretch anything.) 22:34:24 I once had some 2.88MB floppies that I accidentally reformatted as 1.44MB and I had no tools that could add back the 2.88MB magic 22:34:33 then I was slightly sad 22:35:08 So does formatting a floppy drive actually redraw the lines between bits? 22:35:11 Er, floppy disk. 22:35:20 Floppy disks have little lines painted in between the bits, right? 22:35:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:35:55 the humunculus with the chalk walks out and redraws the lines, yeah 22:35:56 you have to draw the line somewhere 22:36:24 I guess I kinda expected the lines to be permanent somehow. 22:37:07 I suppose this means that a formatted floppy disk necessarily has a finite lifespan, since every time you write to it, the bits move around a little bit, and eventually some of the bits will get too close together. 22:37:11 ...right? 22:37:43 I don't think the bits actually move around, they just change magnetization 22:38:13 Well, I mean, if you draw new bits on top of old bits, you're not going to get them in exactly the same place that you did before. 22:39:34 magnets, how do they work 22:40:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk_format 22:42:59 In Linux you could just access/fdformat the /dev/fd0H{1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920} device -- going as high up as you dare. 22:55:36 1743? why an ugly odd number between all those beautiful evens? 22:56:33 that's parityist 22:58:19 > 1743/3 22:58:21 581.0 22:58:39 `factor 1743 22:58:40 1743: 3 7 83 22:59:48 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:59:50 what's the rule for determining divisibility by seven? i forget. 22:59:54 `run echo "1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920" | xargs -d, -1 factor 22:59:55 xargs: invalid option -- '1' \ Usage: xargs [-0prtx] [--interactive] [--null] [-d|--delimiter=delim] \ [-E eof-str] [-e[eof-str]] [--eof[=eof-str]] \ [-L max-lines] [-l[max-lines]] [--max-lines[=max-lines]] \ [-I replace-str] [-i[replace-str]] [--replace[=replace-str]] \ [-n max-args] [--max-args=max-args] \ [-s 23:00:26 `run echo "1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920" | xargs -d, -n 1 factor 23:00:28 1600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 \ 1680: 2 2 2 2 3 5 7 \ 1722: 2 3 7 41 \ 1743: 3 7 83 \ 1760: 2 2 2 2 2 5 11 \ 1840: 2 2 2 2 5 23 \ factor: `1920\n' is not a valid positive integer 23:00:40 `run echo -n "1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920" | xargs -d, -n 1 factor 23:00:42 1600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 \ 1680: 2 2 2 2 3 5 7 \ 1722: 2 3 7 41 \ 1743: 3 7 83 \ 1760: 2 2 2 2 2 5 11 \ 1840: 2 2 2 2 5 23 \ 1920: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 23:01:16 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:01:41 'night everyone! 23:01:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:02:31 looks like several of them are multiples of 21 23:02:33 I'm going to go ahead and suspect it had 83 tracks and 21 sectors/track. 23:03:54 (Because the standard 1440 comes from 80*18.) 23:05:36 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:06:41 > [1660 == 80*20, 1680 == 80*21, 1722 == 82*21, 1743 == 83*21, 1760 == 80*22, 1840 == 80*23, 1920 == 80*24] 23:06:43 [False,True,True,True,True,True,True] 23:06:48 oops 23:06:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:06:55 > [1600 == 80*20, 1680 == 80*21, 1722 == 82*21, 1743 == 83*21, 1760 == 80*22, 1840 == 80*23, 1920 == 80*24] 23:06:56 [True,True,True,True,True,True,True] 23:07:50 huh, the seven rule is weird. 23:08:28 divisibility by seven? 23:08:30 > and [1600 == 80*20, 1680 == 80*21, 1722 == 82*21, 1743 == 83*21, 1760 == 80*22, 1840 == 80*23, 1920 == 80*24] -- OPTOMIZED FOR HUNAM PROCESSING OF OUTPUT 23:08:32 True 23:08:36 seven rule? 23:08:52 oerjan: yeah, like the "add up the digits, if the sum is divisible by three it is" rule for three 23:09:12 the thing is, that works because 3 divides 10-1 23:09:29 and the rule for 11 works because 11 divides 10+1 (duh) 23:09:45 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:09:46 the rules for 2 and 5 work because they divide 10 23:09:49 so what you're saying is we need more octal 23:10:00 but 7 doesn't divide anything before 1001 afair 23:10:11 > 1001/7 23:10:13 143.0 23:11:59 > 999/7 23:12:01 142.71428571428572 23:12:16 um duh. 23:12:42 imo should be 141, just to make sevens more unique 23:12:51 OKAY 23:13:08 and n/7 for non-multiples of 7 are all rotations of 285714 23:13:38 Last digit multiply by 2 subtract from rest test that for div by 7 23:13:39 iirc 23:14:16 > 999999/7 23:14:18 142857.0 23:14:47 Sgeo: yep 23:15:13 qqqqqqqqq 23:15:13 elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 23:15:18 aaaaah 23:15:35 Bike: they're for stuff 23:15:50 ugh can't you at least yell at me or something 23:16:17 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:16:21 Bike: FUCK FUCK SHIT SHIT FUCK 23:16:23 hope this helps 23:16:32 thx 23:16:32 binary swearing 23:16:44 oerjan: 132 23:17:19 no, just 25 afaict 23:20:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:23:57 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:42:16 * Sgeo has a feeling Gregor would agree with it 23:42:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/17hz0y/git_ui_is_a_nightmare_of_mixed_metaphors/ 23:42:36 yeah the git UI is awful 23:42:46 but the data model is elegant and the tools compose 23:42:47 it's like UNIX 23:42:57 except the UNIX data model is not actually elegant 23:43:34 the data model is broken in git 23:43:46 how so? 23:43:50 see: any #esoteric discussion about scapegoat 23:44:00 I like breaking broken data models down to "the simplest thing you can't do" 23:44:14 what's scapegoat? 23:44:16 in git, that's pulling some but not all patches from an upstream branch 23:44:35 and scapegoat is a VCS (which #acehack have branded "the #esoteric VCS"), which nobody has made a serious attempt at writing 23:44:55 you can do that easily, but you lose the link between the upstream patches and your patches 23:44:59 but the basic concepts, we've got down 23:45:23 kmc: no, you can diff and apply patches (and there's a command to do that automatically) 23:45:28 this isn't the same as tracking upstream if it's not linear 23:45:44 you can rebase preserving merges, although it is pretty nasty 23:45:58 yeah, and I don't want to do all this manual work 23:46:12 darcs gets this particular problem right, incidentally, although it fails on others 23:46:13 anyway i wouldn't say that the Git data model is 'broken'; of course there are some things it doesn't support well, but it provides a pretty good ratio of power to complexity 23:46:46 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:47:16 basically the problem is that it has no concept of anything but snapshots 23:47:23 it doesn't understand the notion of a change 23:47:28 and so has to run crazy merging algorithms each time 23:47:47 opinions differ on whether this is a good or a bad thing 23:47:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 23:48:00 it makes it much easier to understand what you actually have in your repository and how it relates to other stuff 23:48:39 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:48:50 which helps when your UI is broken 23:48:57 perhaps if Git's UI were better, it could support a more complex data model 23:49:42 afk 23:53:09 `? monad 23:53:11 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 23:53:32 well obviously 23:53:47 they picked the name to be intuitive like that 23:53:51 -!- olsner has joined. 23:54:19 Why did they pick that name, anyway? 23:55:11 because they are category theory fetishists 23:56:22 No, I mean the category theorists. 23:57:57 because category theory is a ruse to overload normal words and combinations of everyday prefixes and suffixes with complex and arcane meanings 23:58:11 I thought that was math generally. 23:58:52 not generally to the extent that category theory and other forms of abstract algebra do 23:59:12 no i'm sure we'll never run into issues with "group"