2013-01-01: 00:00:15 I'm proud to host a new year's eve for a number of people, including Rolf Henrik and Thomas Monrad Erlandsen 00:00:40 and I'm more than sure that they will outdrink me tonight 00:01:19 OKAY 00:02:20 happy UTC new year 00:02:40 nooga: who 00:02:46 1 hour late 00:02:51 elliott: whe who 00:02:56 damn 00:02:58 who who 00:03:12 elliott: he's abducted some norwegians, clearly 00:03:21 and are forcing them to drink 00:03:25 *is 00:03:49 i think they will kill me for another one tbh 00:07:30 High-voltage alcohol sounds dangerous. 00:07:35 What counts as some? 00:09:30 high voltage is 40%-60% 00:09:46 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has joined. 00:09:47 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:10:04 you should know, as a Finnish 00:10:34 help i'm starting to like the taste of champagne 00:10:56 woops 00:10:58 The taste of change. 00:11:06 oh no 00:11:10 Phantom_Hoover: gross we're no longer friends 00:11:15 Phantom_Hoover: puke instntly 00:11:39 i've never had the champagne 00:11:51 elliott, it's not my fault i was forced to drink it from an early age 00:11:58 are you seriosu monqy ? 00:12:04 serious* 00:12:06 forced? 00:12:24 i've never had the champagne either... 00:12:37 social conventions 00:12:40 cheers droogies 00:12:57 yes im serious 00:13:09 hagb4rd: cheers nolifes 00:13:38 ^rot13 nolifes 00:13:39 abyvsrf 00:13:53 ^rot13 cheers 00:13:53 purref 00:16:34 a pierdole 00:17:19 spoko nooga 00:17:25 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:17:59 no nie wątpie 00:18:14 hey it's 2013 00:18:30 happy new one greyknight 00:18:54 hm I'm not sure what to do with this year 00:19:16 make it 2x more awesome than the previous one 00:19:21 * GreyKnight tries to eat it 00:19:58 If you eat it, nobody else will have it. 00:20:00 idea: a rot13-like cypher that rot10-encodes the consonants and rot3-encodes the vowels: http://codepad.org/wX3YL1lI 00:21:49 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numberwang_%28brainfuck_derivative%29 00:21:58 Zzzz 00:22:15 is meant to produce code that appears extremely random and impossible to understand 00:22:24 increment (increase by one) 00:22:36 wow... 00:22:58 it's literally the most boring esolang and this is coming from the guy who made zeptobasic 00:24:34 meh 00:25:18 I thought Numberwang was something else... wait, that's a different Numberwang? 00:25:57 there is also http://esolangs.org/wiki/Numberwang 00:26:05 meeeeeh 00:26:12 fuick 00:26:13 fizzie: it's a spoof gameshow 00:26:16 that's pretty funny 00:26:18 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:26:51 I know (FSVO) of that, but I was thinking of that other esolang. 00:28:44 it's not really a "spoof gameshow" given that it isn't actually a real gameshow 00:29:00 gameshow spoof 00:30:29 "spoof" means things are real :-I 00:31:00 ^rot13 spoof 00:31:01 fcbbs 00:31:13 like a spoof but it's just in your head 00:34:33 ^rot13 2013 00:34:35 2013 00:35:53 GreyKnight: *GASP* 00:35:58 ^rot13 GASP 00:35:59 TNFC 00:38:09 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:39:05 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:39:41 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:41:00 -!- ion has joined. 00:48:38 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:51:02 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:53:13 `quote 00:53:14 587) fizzie: It's like a JIT, if JITs were... strings. 00:55:45 if jits were strings, compilers would ride 00:58:33 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:01:53 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 01:05:21 Huh, weird. This popular Finnish computers-etc. shop is selling fancy Norwegian bottled water. 01:06:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voss_(water) "three blindfolded wine experts rated Voss water lowest of the six waters tested, which included Helsinki public tap water" but why would you ask a wine expert to test water? 01:07:21 They couldn't find bottled water experts 01:07:39 I suppose we're such a small place, that might be difficult. 01:07:46 I'm sure there are some American bottled water experts. 01:07:50 gosh, a sample size of *three* 01:08:04 -!- asiekierka has joined. 01:08:21 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:08:37 The funniest, these guys are speaking of the waters just like I imagine they'd be speaking of wines. 01:08:41 Sadly, the article is in Finnish. 01:09:01 happy megasecond 1357! 01:09:13 "Secondary water is pretty much translucent spring day in suitable adjectives, such as fresh and bright and tangy, thinking about the new house." Yeah, there's something lost in translation there, I'd say. 01:10:39 `frink 1357 megaseconds -> year 01:10:48 43.001653617620127899 01:10:59 wines? 01:11:02 `run date +%s 01:11:04 > 2013 - 43 01:11:04 1357002663 01:11:06 1970 01:11:16 OKAY 01:11:27 YAKO 01:11:52 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 01:11:57 Party like it's 1357e6? 01:12:14 megaseconds are a bit short for partying 01:12:36 rpc8ecc 01:12:44 `frink 1 megasecond -> days 01:12:53 625/54 (approx. 11.574074074074074) 01:13:11 At least you can have a party reasonably often. 01:13:20 why are you people such nerds 01:13:26 (Or maybe a megasecond-long party?) 01:13:40 nooga: shush, you are still drunk 01:13:40 fizzie: "thinking about the new house" 01:13:41 really good 01:13:52 drunk or not 01:14:14 I'm completely capable of understanding you all 01:14:17 and 01:14:28 you are not half as think as we drunk you are? 01:14:29 I had a great time tonight 01:14:41 elliott: Actually, the guy's surname is "Uusitalo", lit. "Newhouse". 01:14:53 half as we you think 01:14:53 fizzie: fuck you for ruining that for m 01:14:54 e 01:14:57 i hate you 01:15:17 It's what I do. 01:18:33 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 01:22:23 love it 01:24:39 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:27:25 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 01:28:34 is nooga drunk enough to start creating BF derivatives :-I 01:32:55 -!- etb has joined. 01:36:16 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:36:38 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 01:39:26 GreyKnight: shush 01:40:07 when your brain cannot be usefully distinguished from a brick, you are drunk enough 01:41:19 I think you underestimate my capabilities 01:41:44 `frink 1 year -> second 01:41:51 3.1556925974678400e+7 01:42:00 brb 01:42:14 i have to throw my macbook at my brother 01:46:23 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:46:59 fizzie: oh wow, the plot for anticipation2's tape position heatmap is neat 01:47:01 you can see the tripwires 01:58:13 :t (>->) 01:58:15 Not in scope: `>->' 01:58:15 Perhaps you meant one of these: 01:58:15 `>>' (imported from Control.Monad.Writer), 01:59:18 @hoogle (>.>) 01:59:19 No results found 01:59:24 @hoogle (<.<) 01:59:24 No results found 01:59:39 (\o\) 02:00:01 Jafet: i was (implausibly) checking if the new pipes library had been imported to lambdabot 02:00:25 * elliott hopes it isn't. 02:01:44 because you don't like pipes, or because you think lambdabot should be restricted to ubiquitous stuff? 02:02:00 well maybe a bit of both 02:02:18 I like lens in lambdabot, not convinced any sort of pipey conduity library would be useful 02:06:43 loud pipes save lives 02:09:29 -!- nooga has joined. 02:14:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:18:25 -!- nooga has joined. 02:28:22 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:31:20 fungot: wisdom please 02:31:21 oerjan: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, changing this matter could be formalised because cuba was not present in a special group, namely girls and women in these countries. 02:31:54 obviously. 02:34:08 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:51:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:52:23 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:53:38 it would be nice if fungot were able to learn something by talking to people in the channel. we could implement some simple heuristics and a few syntax patterns like statements (e.g.: "bood is red"; "red is a color"), or conditionals like ("if you jump into water, you get wet") etc 02:53:40 hagb4rd: mr president, commissioner, first may i also ask you to think a little about it coming as i do with the fact that parliament now has a 220 fnord middle class and is responsible for coordinating humanitarian aid to the economic and monetary affairs, on the current debate raging in america, the philippines. while protesting peacefully against the erection of a fnord military force ( article 17 of the eu' s member states 02:54:38 the erection of a fnord military force sounds like a grevious matter indeed. 02:54:39 with time fungot could be able to make relations between objects/verbs 02:54:41 hagb4rd: madam president, by way of question, is that this parliament has always shown willingness to set up a new method of certification was also introduced, which caused extremely widespread damage, both to restate and to demand access to medical care.' the states: ' we must continue with these meetings for as long as it is that future action will include an examination of the current council presidency's suggestion that we 02:54:52 "let's use a neural network" 02:55:25 sth like that 02:55:49 but maybe less sophisticated 02:56:21 a dendrite network 02:56:32 i'd like the idea of starting it from scratch at least for training/learning issues 02:58:11 and keep things at basic level 02:58:54 let's use 02:59:00 genetic algorithms 02:59:08 and fractals 03:00:15 a neural network wired to a support vector machine wired to a fractal genetic algorithm wired to a guy in Bangladesh who gets 3¢ for each right answer 03:00:24 I'd just import Mentifex's AI MIND into it if it came to that. 03:00:27 lol 03:00:37 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:00:48 -!- Jafet has joined. 03:01:41 @google Mentifex's AI MIND 03:01:42 http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html 03:01:42 Title: The Arthur T. Murray/Mentifex FAQ 03:03:16 "Murray claims that Mind is an artificial mind which is capable of thought, sentience, and linguistic communication. At the moment, however, it does not appear to do anything except spew meaningless and ungrammatical strings of words." <-- doesn't sound promising at all 03:03:19 i'm always disappointed that the full glory of his TLD proposal isn't on there 03:03:37 hagb4rd: nonsense, he's already up to the latest in befunge-oriented ircbot engineering 03:04:04 fungot: Say something meaningful. 03:04:05 fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i would like to say to the honourable member who appealed for a special unit for work-related health problems in general. 03:04:53 that's... I think I could diagram that as grammatical! better get to work mister ifex 03:05:08 fungot: red is a coulour 03:05:09 hagb4rd: madam president, the commission's communication also deals with the social and cultural life. the issue that mr sacrdeus is addressing. it has not been accepted, and we must follow the path which more than ever the development of an external strategy for areas in the european union 03:05:18 fizzie, man, that thing's from a time when 'meme' wasn't common parlance 03:05:21 fungot: what is red? 03:05:21 hagb4rd: mr president, a more efficient organisation for fighting against poverty and social exclusion are other issues. 03:05:26 hmm, when's the last time the president of the EU was a woman? 03:05:56 fizzie: also, is fungot in europarl mode rigged to always start "mr president" or "madam president"? 03:05:57 ais523: madam president, it is because too much ground has been given by parliament to the conclusions of the european union 03:06:05 or doe sit just do that because most of the sentences start like that? 03:06:17 ais523: i'd assume that's the president of the parliament 03:06:28 oerjan: hmm, which might be a different person? 03:06:31 I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was never 03:06:31 the EU is confusing 03:06:32 ais523: Not "rigged", it's just a natural consequence of the model. And it's not quite always. 03:06:35 fungot: i ain't the president of nothing mother fucker 03:06:36 but I didn't realise it was that confusing 03:06:36 Bike: mr president, i close my eyes and i had better not give in to the blackmail which says " if we do so. 03:06:42 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:06:49 ais523: i'm pretty sure they recently changed the system to add at least one more president 03:07:40 ais523: there were _3_ EU presidents accepting the nobel prize this year :P 03:08:08 one was the parliament one, which was the one i didn't know 03:08:12 oerjan: so basically, the rule of the EU 03:08:18 is that you make everyone a president 03:08:21 then there were barroso and rompuy[sp?] 03:08:24 I don't have a script for back-converting (or dumping models, or enough awakeness to peek at the binary data), otherwise I'd check the actual probabilities of starting with that. 03:08:31 so that you can use "mr president" or "madam president" despite not knowing their names 03:08:42 I imagine it could be awkward if you didn't know their genders (or if they weren't gender-binary people) 03:08:55 barroso is the president of the commision iirc 03:09:12 and rompuy is the new kind, who is sort of coordinating or something 03:09:16 is there a preferred honorific in place for our first nonbinary president? 03:09:34 Ser President. 03:09:37 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 03:09:56 isn't that too much like "sir", though 03:10:10 It's in use, for some values of use. 03:10:11 but anyway, since fungot is doing parliament speeches i assume e is referring to the president of the parliament. 03:10:12 oerjan: mr president, you are interpreting the text in front of the cars on fnord -the requirement that fuel consumption data be included in an annex to our rules of procedure, and so it is with specific reference to the fact that with this resolution. 03:10:30 hagb4rd: not sure, I know a few human beings who could be described that way 03:11:02 GreyKnight: what do you mean? 03:12:07 what do you refer to? 03:12:50 i'm lost :( 03:14:06 "There have been twenty-eight Presidents since the Parliament was created in 1952, thirteen of whom have served since the first Parliamentary election in 1979. Two Presidents have been women and most have come from the older member states." 03:14:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:15:05 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:15:24 -!- greyooze has joined. 03:15:33 hagb4rd: "At the moment, however, it does not appear to do anything except spew meaningless and ungrammatical strings of words." 03:15:48 Simone Veil 1979-1983, Nicole Fontaine 1999-2002 03:15:57 ^style 03:15:57 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 03:16:03 ^style europarl 03:16:03 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 03:16:15 that would appear to be the latter, then 03:16:25 you should know that the president of the E.U. is just the guy shaking many hands having no power at all 03:16:38 "guy", you say 03:16:51 hagb4rd: that's probably rompuy then 03:18:46 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 03:19:43 oh my mistake, the EU actually has _four_ presidents, one of them just wasn't at the nobel award 03:19:52 lol 03:19:54 hagb4rd, don't eat the lies! the president's hand is implanted with a small taser to keep the heads of state in line 03:19:57 or wasn't speaking, anyway 03:20:30 oh wait no 03:20:40 one of them is a country, not a person :P 03:20:47 (currently cyprus) 03:21:57 mr:0.598 madam:0.143 i:0.069 the:0.051 we:0.011 and the other 335 possible initial words have frequencies <1%. 03:22:17 and also there's three of them, the current, previous and next one 03:22:19 (Disclaimer: fungot might be implementing the selection algorithm wrong.) 03:22:20 fizzie: various points should be made very clear and strict regulations would eliminate the southern states. these questions can be summarised as follows: the council should accept the wonderful job done by the spanish fleet. it began to fish scorpion fish gallineta in spanish in november and december of 1995 that the commission will work with optimum efficiency. that is why we welcome the debate which arose out of turkey' s po 03:22:25 Ha! 03:22:56 fungot...you got cut off.... 03:22:57 monqy: mr president, adoption of the common organization of the market in question. the incoming irish presidency if it has binding legal status its content must, of course, that we can support the report, namely paragraph 59, in particular the idea that only a rigorous budgetary framework set until 2006, because there are regions, such as whether the threshold should be higher than the ospar value, to wit, the burden of proof 03:23:12 fungot.......... 03:23:12 mlsqn: mr president, i would like to take this opportunity of describing to you on behalf of the committee on budgets. on 17 february, it was also agreed to draw up a policy for the pharmaceutical industry is essential for europe to maintain a balance between the united states 03:23:20 mlsqn, nice 03:23:45 "various" has a frequency of approximately 0.000059834. (1/16713, to be exact.) 03:24:41 wait it may not actually be previous and next, but ... darn it. 03:24:54 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:25:20 fizzie: why is it mlsqn... 03:25:24 monqy: imo /nick mlsqn 03:25:58 elliott: that corruption thing that happens sometimes when it cuts off(that's why i said fungot i wanted the corruptions) 03:25:59 monqy: mr president, on behalf of mr bertens our distinguished rapporteur on cyprus. peace and tranquillity in the balkans. and then the uk. in each case. we are living in direct danger and fear, are being prevented from taking what in a lot of energy can contribute towards our progress to date in ireland under the community support frameworks, when we ought to remind ourselves of the appalling attack on madrid, which is not be 03:26:07 Because the message was sent by "mlsqn!~oe:monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net". 03:26:16 there's an 18-month trio, each country of which is president for 6 months. 03:26:27 Europarl is probably the most likely dataset to cause corruption, APPROPRIATELY ENOUGH. 03:27:03 monqy: yeah i know but... 03:27:46 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 03:28:47 fungot for president 03:28:48 Jafet: mr president, i would like to remind the commission, we also said that it would be useful if the presidency explained this to him personally and have it recognized in the european union's democratic principles like any other place such as algeciras to mention the kyoto objective, to which he replied that he could reply that the commission has recently put forward a number of years to cover their repayment. this is in pla 03:28:55 which actually means that country pay the bills at the cocktail-parties in this period 03:29:07 fungot five president 03:29:08 Jafet: mr president, commissioner vitorino, feel really has been somewhat abandoned by the world health organisation claims. this is the cornerstone of the union institutions will respond in a moment. i would therefore ask you to look into the matter once and for all purposes should be deducted from capital to prevent the influx and concentration of the population, together with a sensible judicial system. we take your words to 03:30:47 so, that's how it works 03:30:56 fungot: tell me about politics 03:30:57 hagb4rd: mr president, i think it is much less willing to bow to the majority of the people who suffer from genetic and other medical centres. over six million diagnoses are made annually in europe. 03:31:05 it works! 03:31:26 http://sprunge.us/fGjM look at it go. 03:31:45 those horrible genetic centres 03:32:35 We need medical centres for medical centres 03:39:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:40:51 For comparison, most likely opening words for ^style irc: i:0.108 POPAREN:0.028 the:0.028 and:0.027 you:0.026 but:0.025 it:0.025 what:0.021 it's:0.019 so:0.018 i'm:0.017 that:0.015 if:0.014 UNK:0.014 that's:0.012 PODQUOT:0.010 is:0.010 how:0.010 and then it goes <1%. 03:41:02 ("POPAREN" is a "(".) 03:42:27 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:43:22 fungot: ("unk 03:43:23 Jafet: ladies and gentlemen, i would ask the commission to make proposals for further improvement. but, madam president-in-office of the council, making way for his opponent and probably lawfully elected successor, vojislav kostunica, without any opportunity to present his views on these legal issues. 03:43:49 @google vojislav kostunica 03:43:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojislav_Ko%C5%A1tunica 03:43:51 Title: Vojislav Koštunica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 03:44:13 I may have to sleeb, it's 05:44am already in here. 03:45:59 fizzie: lame 03:48:21 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:50:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Sleeb is für the week). 03:51:38 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 03:52:39 Weep for the sleek 03:54:11 ^style fungot 03:54:12 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 03:54:23 fungot style 03:54:24 Jafet: perhaps, if i could but learn is when you're fairies, you know, that thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's 03:54:56 awful 03:55:37 I wonder what fungot converges to. 03:55:38 Jafet: or is it just me, or i: yet, you rogue! 04:02:34 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:06:08 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 04:06:27 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Client Quit). 04:06:43 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 04:20:56 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:23:51 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:25:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:26:50 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 05:02:03 happy EST new year! 05:05:51 yeee 05:06:13 kmc: fuck EST 05:06:13 fuck life 05:06:17 fuck everything 05:07:35 no man no 05:08:59 yes 05:11:34 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:12:18 -!- greyooze has joined. 05:12:21 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 05:12:30 * GreyKnight shoots elliott with a firework -----==> 05:12:55 don't fuck a wood chipper 05:18:14 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:21:28 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:23:03 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:24:55 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 05:29:57 oh 05:37:28 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:40:23 yes indeed 06:40:26 `quote 06:40:31 302) (im not a lawyer) (im just making stuff up 06:40:35 `quote 06:40:36 688) Yes, it is true; I don't really like PHP either. 06:40:38 `quote 06:40:40 6) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. 06:40:42 `quote 06:40:43 692) "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith so that you can legally own lockpicks Did I mention when I want 06:40:43 `quote 06:40:45 451) elliott: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'. 06:58:34 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 07:00:37 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:06:20 `quote 07:06:21 282) I've only watched bad movies about video game. I enjoyed every second of it. 07:17:02 is this slomo quoting 07:19:37 did 692 get cut off 07:22:20 yes 07:47:56 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:09:06 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 08:22:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:23:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:36:54 [mp3float @ 0x7fb7575fb400]big_values too big 08:38:41 error: 'long long long' is too long for GCC 08:59:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:11:58 -!- etb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:31:17 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:40:36 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:40:57 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 09:40:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:43:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:02:07 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:53:53 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 10:54:00 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:02:18 `log Did I mention when I want 11:02:49 2013-01-01.txt:06:40:43: 692) "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith so that you can legally own lockpicks `pastelog Did I mention when I want 11:05:27 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4822 11:09:56 `help 11:09:56 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 11:14:14 -!- nooga has joined. 11:40:06 `stat help 11:40:08 stat: cannot stat `help': No such file or directory 11:40:15 `run which help 11:40:17 No output. 11:44:00 `ls bin 11:44:01 ​? \ @ \ WELCOME \ addquote \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ hatesgeo \ interp \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ karma \ karma- \ karma+ \ learn \ log \ logurl \ lua \ luac \ luarocks \ luarocks-admin \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ No \ pastaquote \ paste \ pastefortune 11:52:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:53:02 hello 11:54:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 11:54:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:58:57 `ls 11:58:58 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ quotese \ share \ wisdom 11:59:44 `ls bin > help.txt 11:59:45 ls: cannot access bin > help.txt: No such file or directory 12:00:24 `ls paste 12:00:25 paste.10030 \ paste.1009 \ paste.1013 \ paste.1014 \ paste.10183 \ paste.10198 \ paste.10249 \ paste.10325 \ paste.10348 \ paste.10378 \ paste.10571 \ paste.10590 \ paste.10605 \ paste.10757 \ paste.10835 \ paste.10941 \ paste.10997 \ paste.11095 \ paste.11100 \ paste.11140 \ paste.11204 \ paste.11295 \ paste.11427 \ paste.11437 \ paste.11439 \ pas 12:00:41 `ls bin > /paste/help.txt 12:00:43 ls: cannot access bin > /paste/help.txt: No such file or directory 12:01:06 `ls bin >| /paste/help.txt 12:01:07 ls: cannot access bin >| /paste/help.txt: No such file or directory 12:11:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:17:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:18:45 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:23:05 `pwd 12:23:06 ​/hackenv 12:23:29 `ls bin > paste/help.txt 12:23:31 ls: cannot access bin > paste/help.txt: No such file or directory 12:34:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7AsYxY6nz4 <-- good ol` caleb quotes 12:34:59 quit 12:35:04 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:48:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 13:24:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:15:55 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:53:05 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 15:02:40 http://chrisdone.com/z/ 15:19:09 -!- mig22 has joined. 15:20:29 -!- carado has joined. 15:29:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:34:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:57:52 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:22:07 -!- etb has joined. 16:22:27 -!- etb has quit (Client Quit). 16:22:31 -!- flood0r2 has joined. 16:23:04 -!- flood0r2 has changed nick to etb. 17:07:46 -!- Bike has joined. 17:17:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:17:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:35:11 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:45:18 "We have DOS, Windows, OS/2, XENIX, and NT. It's Microsoft against Microsoft against Microsoft against Microsoft." 17:45:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: No route to host). 17:45:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:50:12 Ugh, I commented on my Tumblr, it isn't showing up 17:50:24 I think maybe the Javascript won't show comments that look like they're from the future? 17:50:43 Because my computer's clock is a bit slow, when I initially posted it said "in 3 minutes" 17:50:59 You the Sgeo who posts about Lisp? 17:51:28 I've posted about Common Lisp and Clojure 17:51:56 Ok, my comment is flat out not showing up 17:52:03 Taneb, do you mean sgeo.tumblr.com ? That's me 17:52:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:53:22 It's not intended to be specifically about lisps 17:53:23 You now have one more follower! 17:53:26 :) 17:53:56 It's pretty much any programming stuff. If I become reinterested in Haskell and newly obsessed with Opa, that's what I'd be talking about 17:54:22 (Note: Opa is currently not a strong candidate for language obsession) 17:56:53 Dear Disqus: I would like to see my own comment please 18:05:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:05:46 nortti: Well, Microsoft did work a bit on OS/2 but after that it was all IBM 18:06:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:07:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:07:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:08:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:09:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:16:40 Sgeo, it makes a pleasant change from the Homestuck and Adventure Time currently filling my dash 18:16:58 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:16:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:16:58 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:18:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:27:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:27:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:27:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:27:55 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 18:28:41 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:32:52 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:36:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:40:50 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 18:40:57 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 18:59:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:02:36 * Sgeo hits Taneb with a Racket dye pack 19:02:42 (dye packs are a thing in Racket) 19:02:54 ok 19:03:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:04:39 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:05:05 elliott, I am easily amused. 19:05:19 Nothing wrong with being easily amused, right? 19:07:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:08:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:10:41 05:06:13: fuck life 19:10:41 05:06:17: fuck everything 19:10:54 i'm afraid that's illegal in most countries, elliott 19:13:40 `quote 692 19:13:42 692) "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith so that you can legally own lockpicks Did I mention when I want 19:14:04 `quote 692 | fmt -w300 | tail -1 19:14:05 No output. 19:14:19 `quote 692 | fmt -w300 | tail -2 19:14:21 No output. 19:14:27 `run quote 692 | fmt -w300 | tail -1 19:14:29 can legally own lockpicks Did I mention when I wanted to become a locksmith? 19:15:43 Gregor: maybe HackEgo needs a `more command like lambdabot 19:17:31 that quote used to display just fine in full 19:18:28 hm and HackEgo doesn't have a particularly long nick!uname@hostname 19:18:51 `run quote 692 | fmt -w400 19:18:54 692) "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith so that you can legally own lockpicks Did I mention when I want 19:19:07 it doesn't even reach 400 19:19:38 I don't know why it's become overconservative lately. perhaps something to do with Gregor making it not mishandle Unicode 19:19:41 @tell Gregor HackEgo cuts off lines too soon 19:19:41 Consider it noted. 19:22:17 Is there a way to pipe stderr onwards? 19:22:32 Taneb: 2>&1 merges stderr and stdout 19:22:42 you can do tricks with named pipes if you need separate control over stdout and stderr 19:22:51 How do I use that mysterious collection of characters 19:23:00 command 2>&1 | another_command 19:23:21 Thanks 19:24:59 ^pastequotes 19:25:03 `pastequotes 19:25:07 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24765 19:25:56 692) "Category 4 ("professional") fireworks are for sale only to fireworks professionals. They have no restrictions," OK I need to become a pyrotechnician. Phantom_Hoover: that's like wanting to become a locksmith so that you can legally own lockpicks Did I mention when I wanted to become a locksmith? 19:26:30 ok it's definitely HackEgo which cuts it off, not freenode 19:26:57 well its cutting got changed recently 19:26:58 so duh 19:27:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:28:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:28:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:28:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:29:21 Exactly 350 characters in the cut message body. 19:29:36 Then again, fungot is even more strict, IIRC. 19:29:37 fizzie: is that something you know and and the cases that required to actually mutate the original ( sorted, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, 19:29:51 @tell hagb4rd HackEgo ` doesn't do shell stuff like pipes and redirection unless you start with `run 19:29:51 Consider it noted. 19:29:52 ^ul ((A)S:^):^ 19:29:53 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ...too much output! 19:30:08 Well, 324 A's. 19:30:09 fungot 19:30:09 shachaf: use the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there it is, in case he doesn't want you to the ancients, right. some numbers is disguising them so the user gets a frob, which is the bit-reversal of the statement is encountered, it is also readily than they use over there 19:30:32 ^bf ,[.]!A 19:30:32 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ... 19:30:43 That's just 207. 19:31:11 @tell hagb4rd specifically, without run everything after the command name gets sent as a single, undivided string argument 19:31:11 Consider it noted. 19:31:30 `ls bin/run 19:31:31 ls: cannot access bin/run: No such file or directory 19:31:37 heh 19:31:44 `run which run 19:31:46 No output. 19:32:54 so `run isn't an ordinary command, although it could easily have been made one... 19:32:59 oerjan: run is built-in 19:33:17 AS I WAS IMPLYING 19:34:11 oerjan: `run is built into the bot, not an ordinary command. 19:34:45 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 19:35:24 is `run built in or an ordinary command? 19:35:33 `run echo "#!/bin/sh" >bin/run; echo 'bash -c "$@"' >>bin/run; chmod +x bin/run 19:35:37 No output. 19:35:38 * oerjan hits olsner with the saucepan ===\__/ 19:35:48 `bin/run echo hi; echo bye 19:35:49 hi \ bye 19:35:52 oerjan: Hey, how come I never get the saucepan treatment? 19:36:08 shachaf: because you'd enjoy it too much. 19:36:11 @tell Gregor You can remove the special-casing of the `run command; I added a bin/run that behaves equivalently. 19:36:11 Consider it noted. 19:36:20 @tell Gregor (Come to think of it, can't you implement `fetch inside the bot too?) 19:36:21 Consider it noted. 19:36:37 The bot has an Internet connection? 19:36:41 @tell Gregor (And `help, though that would make reverting an rm -r more annoying since you'd have to dig up the URL. (Probably not a problem.)) 19:36:41 Consider it noted. 19:36:51 `help 19:36:52 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:37:17 `run mkdir -p run/bin/; cp bin/run run/bin/ 19:37:21 No output. 19:38:06 elliott: iirc `fetch is less stringent about what is permitted to connect to than the sandbox 19:38:29 which iirc has a whitelist of web sites 19:38:58 oh, right 19:39:09 `run rm -r run 19:39:13 No output. 19:40:31 see bin run 19:43:13 Nothing wrong with being easily amused, right? <-- depends. does your laughter make people cringe? 19:47:46 -!- monqy has joined. 19:56:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:02:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:09:48 I think I'm more likely to write unit tests with Racket than with any other language, merely because of how easy it is to intersperse tests with the rest of the code 20:14:58 -!- asiekierka_ has quit (Excess Flood). 20:17:11 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:19:05 The VCR/DVD I have will not correct the aspect ratio when playing DivX. 20:19:22 (The frame skip functions also don't work with DivX) 20:24:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:25:33 Is there a writer monad on a category of relations? I think so; fmap/join/return is easily defined. Does the monad laws followed? You can then define =<< from that too (note: =<< here is a functor, not a relation, though) 20:25:50 You said Prolog is using relations, so therefore can it be used with Prolog? 20:31:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:33:48 I DON'T KNOW 20:34:31 * oerjan already regrets ignoring the intuition that told him not to bring this up 20:35:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:35:49 I don't care about the Institution. 20:36:17 I do want to see if it can be used with Prolog, or with category of relation in general. 20:36:33 then do it yourself. 20:36:42 I can try. 20:43:48 I think it does follow monad laws. 20:52:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:52:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:52:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:55:55 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:57:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:57:53 -!- carado has joined. 21:02:03 elliott, oerjan: FUCK YOU GUYS 21:02:04 Gregor: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 21:02:09 @messages 21:02:10 oerjan said 1h 42m 29s ago: HackEgo cuts off lines too soon 21:02:10 elliott said 1h 25m 59s ago: You can remove the special-casing of the `run command; I added a bin/run that behaves equivalently. 21:02:10 elliott said 1h 25m 50s ago: (Come to think of it, can't you implement `fetch inside the bot too?) 21:02:10 elliott said 1h 25m 29s ago: (And `help, though that would make reverting an rm -r more annoying since you'd have to dig up the URL. (Probably not a problem.)) 21:02:12 `friends 21:02:14 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: friends: not found 21:02:41 If HackEgo is cutting off lines shorter than it was previously, I have NO idea how or why. 21:02:50 Having `run be in the environment is a profoundly bad idea. 21:03:09 Right now, the proxy isn't even up, because it was unreliable as shit, and it whitelisted things anyway. 21:03:25 The only reason I wanted `help outside the bot is so that the URL would never get scrubbed. 21:03:49 what's wrong with `run being in the env 21:04:45 `run rm bin/run # fix this without `run or `revert 21:04:48 No output. 21:05:23 Gregor: `revert 21:05:26 what's wrong with that 21:05:39 isn't the point of `revert for when people do something idiotic and fuck things up :P 21:06:32 Point is, you can't make `run from a fresh environment. An empty environment is unusable without `run. Admittedly we don't have an empty environment, but I don't like the notion that you can't start from scratch. 21:06:54 Gregor: well i can think of a way to do it 21:06:59 Show me 21:07:04 `fetch http://run.invalid 21:07:05 wget: unable to resolve host address `run.invalid' 21:07:16 `/hackenv/run mkdir bin && mv run bin 21:07:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/run: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/run: cannot execute: No such file or directory 21:07:21 Taneb............................... 21:07:29 But `/hackenv/run wouldn't work. 21:07:33 why not 21:07:34 Because it's a-x 21:07:36 hmmm 21:07:46 And chmod won't work. 21:07:47 interesting 21:07:58 oh i have an idea 21:08:01 `env echo hi 21:08:02 env: echo hi: No such file or directory 21:08:19 i think there is a wa to do this 21:08:21 *way 21:08:25 Gregor: oh duh 21:08:30 Gregor: okay `fetch 02:51:16 or something like that 02:51:32 heh 02:51:41 does navigating to a javascript: url not work? 02:51:45 that might work too 02:52:08 this is a dim memory from approximately a billion years ago 02:52:45 Also the keyboard is shitty. 02:53:12 Capslock is replaced with a super key with a search icon on it. 02:53:29 And there's no menu, home/end/pgup/pgdn/etc. 02:53:43 Not even by way of a function key. 02:54:14 damn it intel why do you have 38573645 different instructions named "shuffle" 02:54:24 Then again I'm one of the 5 people left in the world who still uses a menu key. 02:54:41 evincar: I use it by mistake sometimes, and intentionally a bit less often 02:55:21 keyboard keys ftw 02:55:24 don't take my keys! 02:55:30 I have it bound to WM stuff, so I don't really use it. 02:55:39 i really hate how dell or whoever rearranged the six pack 02:55:44 why would you do that? 02:55:54 i can understand removing that whole chunk of keyboard, but not just destandardizing it 02:56:18 One rationale I've heard from a Logitech guy is that "Insert" confuses people. 02:56:26 So they use a double-high Delete. 02:56:28 fuck people. 02:56:38 people can learn 02:56:47 But still put Ins above Del on the same row as the F keys. 02:56:56 i've never used sysrq but you don't see me complaining! 02:56:57 ;) 02:57:04 Causing Pause/Break and Scroll Lock to get out of whack. 02:57:13 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:57:14 It's this terrible chain reaction. 02:57:34 Yeah that. SysRq. 02:58:29 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:00:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:01:55 -!- evincar has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:03:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:03:57 -!- augur has joined. 03:04:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:04:48 -!- augur has joined. 03:05:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:05:53 -!- augur has joined. 03:07:19 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:10:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:11:49 -!- augur has joined. 03:19:59 kmc: The good one is pshufb. 03:20:21 Or was it vpshufb? 03:22:27 i don't know what the difference is 03:22:37 sometimes the mnemonics differ between intel and AT&T :( 03:22:46 do they really 03:22:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:23:12 think so 03:23:16 Yes. 03:23:22 Isn't v the one that takes three operands? 03:23:29 New in AVX. 03:23:30 -!- augur has joined. 03:23:38 (I knew once.) 03:24:25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEX_prefix 03:24:26 I think it's that. 03:24:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:24:50 -!- augur has joined. 03:29:11 oh 03:29:15 ok 03:29:49 i love x86 instructions 03:31:22 kmc: I hear the "cool byte shuffling instructions" are Knuth's MOR and MXOR. 03:33:58 yes 03:34:00 those are nic 03:34:01 e 04:00:32 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:02:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:39 -!- augur has joined. 04:05:09 kmc: Oh, I missed it. 04:05:17 * shachaf doesn't track megaseconds. 04:05:21 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:05:45 -!- augur has joined. 04:06:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:53 -!- augur has joined. 04:07:50 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:07:52 At least I noticed kmc over 9000 day! 04:11:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:14:29 ? 04:15:58 kmc, you are over 9000 units of some dimension 04:30:42 «We're grateful for Greg's many contributions to Sequoia over the last 12 years. His wikipedic knowledge, quick wit, and uncanny ability to connect seemingly unrelated ideas made him a joy to work with.» 04:31:04 Is that a sort of backhanded compliment? 04:31:24 Wikipedic knowledge sounds like a bad thing. 04:31:41 it is :( 04:35:45 that's definitely an insult 04:35:51 i don't know how they got away with that 04:36:11 what's the difference between MOVAPS and MOVDQA 04:36:40 kmc: 3 04:36:40 how many jokes are there about intel's mnemonics not being very mnemonic 04:37:50 kmc: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6678073/difference-between-movdqa-and-movaps-x86-instructions 04:38:04 i wonder if loongson has official han character mnemonics 04:38:08 probably not but that would be amazing 04:38:20 thanxchaf 04:38:30 'On some (but not all) micro-architectures, there are timing differences due to "domain crossing penalties"' 04:38:37 ok now you're just making shit up 04:38:54 is that term especially made-up-sounding...? 04:39:09 no it's just more complexity than i want to think about 04:39:19 welcome to assembly? 04:39:22 MOVAPS two cycles slower due to transfer at Oxford Circus 04:40:18 What are you doing with x86 instructions? 04:40:29 AES-NI 04:40:57 This isn't for mosh, is it? 04:42:06 no 04:42:18 What is it for? 04:42:54 Oh, those things you were working on? 04:48:49 oerjan: Don't you ever get tired of logreading? 04:50:27 -!- augur has joined. 04:52:01 monqy: you should draw a self portrait of oerjan 04:52:58 i remember when i drew self portraits 04:53:09 they were so good 04:53:17 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:53:22 imo some of your finest work 04:53:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:00:52 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:22:35 "Are you proud when you explain this [primitives] to a non-Smalltalker?" 05:22:47 (On a presentation about Newspeak) 05:22:53 Referring to Bike's objection 05:25:59 Security vulnerability in the pure-Haskell implementation of TLS! 05:26:01 How unexpected. 05:26:12 gosh i'm like some kind of smalltalkkin 05:26:28 shachaf: No wai 05:29:38 shachaf: haha 05:29:40 what's the vuln? 05:31:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:32:43 https://github.com/vincenthz/hs-tls/issues/29 05:33:58 :( 05:34:51 I'm not sure why Haskell people seem to insist on implementing everything themselves. 05:35:12 Implementing crypto by yourself – what could possibly go wrong? 05:35:55 shachaf: To me "mathematically correct", maybe. 05:35:58 software is automatically better if written in haskell 05:35:59 s/me/be/ 05:36:02 that said, a lot of language communities do this 05:36:11 With cryptography? 05:36:16 yeah 05:36:21 I don't see Ruby people implementing their own cryptography things so much. 05:36:24 you can find pure python implementations of everything 05:36:26 Maybe I'm just out of touch. 05:36:32 it's a question of whether people actually use it or whether they're toys 05:36:33 kmc: Sure, but are they *standard*? 05:36:58 and there is a certain appeal to having your security critical primitives written in a high level memory safe language with some level of static assurance 05:37:12 is hs-tls standard? what do you mean by that 05:37:14 is it in the Platform? 05:37:32 I mean the things that all the web frameworks etc. seem to use. 05:37:57 I don't think there's much of a high-level cryptography API that's made over bindings to OpenSSL, say. 05:38:54 hs-tls is used by all the web frameorks? 05:39:35 not clear your web framework should even be doing SSL 05:39:35 I don't mean hs-tls specifically, but most of the cryptography libraries that I've come across. 05:39:45 terminating SSL at a frontend reverse proxy / app container is common 05:40:26 to be fair OpenSSL is written in an unsafe language and is also shitty 05:40:34 i mean, somebody has to try to do better 05:40:39 True. 05:40:39 but they are going to get burnt repeatedly 05:40:43 especially if they are not experts 05:40:46 and SSL is fucking complicated 05:40:49 i'm so glad Mosh doesn't use DTLS 05:40:52 this came up again today 05:44:29 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:45:30 To some, deism means that God created the universe but does not affect it now. When I said that I don't believe the Jews are God's chosen people and all that stuff is just mythology, I did not mean that God does nothing since. God is beyond comprehension and now you are trying to put it into something you understand, even though it cannot understand, so that is an error. 05:45:50 zzo38: Would you say that everything exists? 05:45:55 shachaf: Yes. 05:46:03 What Wikipedia says about deism is different. 05:46:13 And I think that God is a hypothesis with near-zero likelihood. 05:46:58 People don't even agree what "God" is, regardless if you think so or not. (This applies to me too, of course.) 05:47:15 pikhq: imo there is a very high likelihood for my existence 05:47:21 near 1 in fact 05:47:49 shachaf: However, although I may say that everything exists, I now say, what is exist? Physical existence? Universal existence? Mathematical existence? It is different! 05:48:44 thinking that questions about god are stymied by people not agreeing on what "god" means is called "ignosticism", for reference 05:49:12 Yes, I know that is called "ignosticism"; I did see that on Wikipedia. 05:49:28 So I do sometimes call some of my ideas ignostic, too. 05:51:42 I do study philosophy of much. 05:51:58 `addquote I do study philosophy of much. 05:52:06 933) I do study philosophy of much. 05:52:28 kmc: lens now has a function which pays a 1000x constant factor for the common case to avoid a space leak in the unusual case. 05:52:33 :( 05:52:34 I feel kind of bad about that. 05:52:49 But I don't know what the right answer is. 05:52:53 Space leaks are really annoying. 05:53:05 shachaf: Can you perhaps fix it, or make up a separate function for the unusual case? 05:53:06 You can profile a slow thing, but a space leak will just freeze your computer. 05:57:29 I am not a humanist religion. Humanity is just one of the life on the Earth, the Earth is just one of the planets in the solar system, and so on. The absolute reality is the universe as a whole; we divide it to understand it in different ways. 05:57:53 zzo38: You should fix our issue with the function! 05:57:55 The function is lastOf. 05:57:59 It gets the rightmost element of a tree. 05:58:40 I may look, but I don't even know exactly how to fix it necessarily. 05:59:24 https://github.com/ekmett/lens/issues/245 06:03:17 Here's an idea for a FUSE filesystem: Just overlay over another filesystem, presenting all targets from Makefiles as pseudofiles that will be created on-demand. 06:03:25 Smalltalkers are utterly utterly insane http://vimeo.com/50530082 06:06:27 this is silly. 06:06:43 I do not like the way FUSE works; I would prefer it to continue running while active rather than terminate, and to be accessible in a subdirectory of the process directory (in /proc/) instead of the other one. 06:06:48 http://netjam.org/quoth/ 06:07:03 Search that page for Play 4 times 06:07:03 (And you could create a link if you wanted it in a separate directory) 06:07:21 zzo38: IIRC FUSE filesystems don't terminate, they just daemonize. 06:30:36 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:38:35 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:51:56 -!- aloril has joined. 07:04:04 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: dead). 07:07:12 -!- ogrom has joined. 07:11:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:11:22 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 07:11:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:14:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:24:48 shachaf: it's so lame that system calls have to use memory to transfer data 07:24:55 i want to read 16 bytes from a file directly into %xmm0! 07:26:03 Making an asynchronous interface for that sounds like fun. 07:28:14 The OS is going to read it into the page cache anyway unless you do something weird, so you might a well just mmap it and copy it from memory or something. 07:28:30 I guess you want the disk controller to copy data straight to a register too? 07:28:35 You should patent DRA before someone else does. 07:28:36 what if it's a terminal 07:28:37 heh 07:28:54 Oh, a terminal. 07:29:20 terminals: best type of file? 07:29:51 > compare "terminal" "disk" 07:29:53 GT 07:29:56 Looks like it. 07:33:48 sleep, 'night all 07:43:17 kmc: movdqantfs 07:57:10 Fiora: Do you like the guessing game "x86 instruction mnemonic or CAPTCHA?"? 07:57:32 XD 07:57:58 I think my favorite insane one is still phminposuw 07:58:41 Pft. That one's almost pronounceable. 07:59:04 packed horizontal minimum position unsigned word 07:59:37 You should get MOR and MXOR into x86. 07:59:41 take a vector of 8 uint16_ts, return {minimum value, position of minimum value} 08:00:10 single-cycle (throughput at least) 8-way minimum~ it's fun, the name is just ridiculously long XD 08:00:14 ... MOR? 08:00:15 PUNPCKLQDQ and such make for funky names, too, due to how they dropped the 'a' from 'pack'. 08:00:34 pun-pack-liq-diq 08:00:39 If only they'd gone all out with vowel-dropping and made it PNPCKLQDQ. 08:00:47 pun-pack-liq-bow 08:00:48 It's not "pack" when it's PCK. 08:00:57 Also "liq-diq" sounds dirty. 08:01:11 .... oh geez it does >_< 08:01:59 MOR is great. 08:02:15 what's MOR? 08:02:17 It does matrix multiplication of two 64-bit registers treated as 8x8 matrices. 08:02:21 .... @_@ 08:02:23 what architecture is that? 08:02:24 Using AND and OR instead of + and * 08:02:27 MMIX. 08:02:35 wait, so, each entry in the matrix is 1-bit? 08:02:39 Yes. 08:02:44 wow I think that could actually be used in some FEC code I saw a while ago 08:02:51 It's pretty nice. 08:02:56 that's a crazy instruction, was it fast? 08:03:07 MMIX has never been built, so who knows? 08:03:55 oh... I guess I was confusing it with something else 08:04:09 ohhhh. it's Knuth's thing 08:04:13 Yes. 08:04:40 * Fiora tries to think of odd simd instructions she's seen 08:05:00 I think NEON has a simd leading-zero count. which isn't really that weird I guess 08:05:08 MOR/MXOR give you pshufb, among other things. 08:05:18 Except instead of shuffling you can or/xor bytes. 08:05:41 (So instead of a byte index like 0,1,2,3, you give a mask like 1,2,4,8 for the byte you want.) 08:05:48 oh apparently there's an FPGA implementation of MMIX o_O 08:06:02 There is? 08:06:15 I didn't hear about it. 08:06:22 Maybe MMIX is the future of computing. 08:06:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMIX#Hardware_implementations 08:06:51 FPGA isn't really hardware, is it? 08:06:54 Oh, it doesn't say that. 08:08:22 -!- carado has joined. 08:09:57 Maybe I should write an MMIX emulator to learn about writing emulators. 08:14:01 -!- evincar has joined. 08:21:25 GCC even can compile into MMIX. (LLVM cannot) 08:21:42 wait, really? XD 08:23:24 Oh, that's exciting. 08:24:25 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:24:26 Is there a Linux port? 08:24:37 What's arguably more funky is that it's part of mainline GCC distribution, and not just someone's patchset. 08:25:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:26:53 http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/MMIX-Options.html and so on. 08:29:31 Apparently there is a Linux port. 08:35:56 I think MMIX is good but I don't like the rN register and think it should be replaced. 08:36:34 Remind me what that register is? 08:37:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:37:51 Read-only register specifying the serial number. 08:38:47 Oh. 08:39:10 Yes, it should be replaced with a register that specifies the National Identity Number of the current user. 08:41:36 No, it should probably be replaced with something more useful, such as a hypervisor register. 08:42:28 i love registers 08:42:30 they are so easy 08:48:25 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:49:53 Have I mentioned that De Bruijn sequences are the best thing yet? 08:49:57 (They are.) 08:50:20 those are the cool things you can use for stuff like leading zero count, right? 08:50:23 and population count 08:50:33 Isn't it trailing 0 count? 08:50:38 you can do both, I think 08:50:39 ? 08:50:41 Oh. 08:51:06 That's pretty neat if true. 08:51:19 Anyway I first heard of them in a talk about magic. 08:51:37 As in card magic. 08:52:28 The presentation I saw was, roughly: 08:52:42 Giving 5 people a deck of cards, telling one of them to cut it randomly. 08:52:50 Then have each one take the top card and pass the deck to the next one. 08:52:54 having 08:53:17 Then doing all sorts of mind-reading things and saying "I'm getting a strong sense of RED... Stand up if you have a red card". 08:53:28 Then naming all the cards. 08:53:53 This is the only good "mathematical" magic thing I've ever seen. 08:55:23 I think my favorite magic trick is the one where the magician plays a simultaneous chess game with extremely skilled people 08:55:30 and beats/ties half 08:55:49 by copying the moves of one half of the players against the other half, to play them against each other 08:55:51 I saw that presented as a puzzle, not a magic trick. 08:56:04 really? I think I remember hearing it done by a magician or something 08:56:08 maybe I'm wrong 08:56:18 Magicians will do anything these days! 08:56:25 I first came across it in a computer game. 08:56:44 I once wrote a program that used the same idea to spy on people's conversations on omegle.com 08:56:52 The trouble is, most people's conversations are very boring. 08:57:36 (I assume other people have done the same thing there. Who knows how many relays your messages are going through! That's the trouble with anonymity.) 08:59:47 -!- fizzie has quit (Excess Flood). 08:59:54 -!- fizzie has joined. 09:00:28 Fiora: Anyway isn't that card magic thing great? 09:00:53 it works by putting the cards in a de bruijin sequnece or something? 09:01:12 Yes. 09:01:15 ahhh 09:01:21 You have red/black as bits, so you make a base-2 de bruijn sequence. 09:01:34 If you have 6 people, that's enough for 64 cards. 09:01:45 You can encode the suit in two bits and the value in 4 bits. 09:01:59 He came up with a system such that he doesn't have to memorize the whole sequence, too, he can just work it out. 09:02:12 It's pretty neat how the more people you have, the easier it gets. 09:02:17 huh, cool :o 09:02:20 (With 5 people you can only do 32 cards.) 09:03:26 @brain Are you thinking what I'm thinking? 09:03:27 Troz! 09:03:30 Hrm. 09:03:31 @brain Are you thinking what I'm thinking? 09:03:31 I think so, Commander Brain from Outer Space! But do we have time to grease the rockets? 09:04:20 There are so many neat applications of De Bruijn sequences. 09:04:54 If you have a keypad lock that doesn't require an "end" key, you can come up with the shortest sequence that will try every combination. 09:05:19 * shachaf tries to remember some other neat applications. 09:10:54 I will look it up in Wikipedia so that I can understand it better. 09:11:41 zzo38: Perhaps you should move to California. 09:11:47 That way you would understand it well. 09:11:51 Is certainly a good idea, I think. 09:12:32 Moving to California? 09:13:00 No, I mean De Bruijn 09:13:07 I like it 09:13:17 De Bruijn invented everything good. 09:14:10 No, not everything; I just like mathematics, though. 09:14:58 He invented De Bruijn indices, too. 09:15:05 And other good things. 09:15:55 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:18:05 -!- carado has joined. 09:27:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:28:01 shachaf: sometimes. 09:28:31 Do you search for your nick or read the whole thing? 09:29:12 both. 09:29:29 @ty both 09:29:31 Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> (a, a) -> f (b, b) 09:29:50 unless it's too damn long or i'm too tired or the goblins in the cupboard are too noisy. 09:29:52 Any opinions on debru ijn sequences? 09:31:27 "something about how they're less repetitive than you". 09:34:14 Ooh, a "de burn-ij" reply. 09:35:44 DARN FINNS STEALING OUR PUNS 09:35:55 oerjan: Are yoerjan calling me repetitive? 09:36:35 Has Norwegian invented puns yet? 09:38:03 of course not, we stole them from the brits, who stole them from the french, who stole them from the romans who stole them from the greeks who stole them from the phoenicians who stole them from the babylonians who got them from ancient aliens and what was i saying about being repetitive again. 09:38:40 (you don't steal from ancient aliens, look how that went for the gomorrans) 09:40:02 ^rot13 stolenpuns 09:40:02 fgbyrachaf 09:40:16 the ancient aliens didn't invent them either, they just got it from time travelers (together with the time travel) 09:42:55 `addquote I searched for newspeak sgeo "Did you mean: newspeak good " 09:43:00 934) I searched for newspeak sgeo "Did you mean: newspeak good " 09:47:16 damn it intel why do you have 38573645 different instructions named "shuffle" <-- are they in random order too? 09:47:47 and they're formatted differently too! 09:47:53 934 quotes, isn't that a bit too many quotes? 09:47:57 shufps, pshufd~ 09:48:27 fizzie: not if they're all good 09:49:03 I bet kmc is working on a super-secret weblog post that we all can't know about. 09:49:15 That's why he's being so secretive. 09:49:43 oerjan: Are they all good? 09:50:17 i dunno but when they do that five quote thing they frequently don't find anything to delete 09:50:19 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:50:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:52:04 I think 934 quote is not too much, is OK to have many quotations, I think. 09:52:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:53:35 fungot: Is it okay to have many quotations? 09:53:36 fizzie: ( the native sparc variant, that is and it seems to me that it's lf not crlf 09:53:52 fungot: Not helpful. 09:53:54 fizzie: i feel bad now. that feels weird. riastradh, are you putting the poor parentheses all apart and away from their comrades? 09:54:11 fizzie: I don't see why CPU architectures can't have favoured line endings… 09:54:28 ais523: Not helpful re the amount of quotes, I mean. 09:54:37 ah right 09:55:10 (Also I didn't know fungot even had feelings.) 09:55:10 fizzie: for instance clc-intercal exposed a bug in my code 09:55:32 fungot fungot fungot 09:55:33 shachaf: if we have ( ( rec ( f n d c) ( ( a) it determines what code one uses to access structure members. a functor is a class 09:55:37 help 09:55:49 ais523: Do you know all about subtyping? 09:56:08 shachaf: slightly 09:56:22 mostly in the context of Javaish OO, because I teach Java 09:56:23 I feel like subtyping is way more complicated than not-subtyping. 09:56:30 and am going up to the lecture room in a couple of minutes 09:56:44 And also mutability + subtyping sounds really complicated. 09:56:59 I don't normally teach on Thursdays this term, but I'm covering for someone who hadn't been hired at the time 09:57:00 kmc: Oh, I missed it. <-- wat. 09:57:06 ais523: Did you know Java has covariant arrays?! 09:57:11 Mutable arrays, I mean. 09:57:14 Pretty crazy, huh. 09:57:14 shachaf: yes 09:57:24 oerjan: ? 09:57:39 shachaf: * shachaf doesn't track megaseconds. 09:57:42 shachaf: and the fact that they only have the one sort of variance catches people out 09:57:57 They only have one sort of variance? 09:58:11 oerjan: Oh, it was megasecond 1,359. 09:58:11 mutable arrays are supposed to be invariant. 09:58:16 `run date +%s 09:58:17 1359021496 09:58:43 what's significant about that... 09:58:43 kmc used a secret type of message not visible to glogbot to say it, though. 10:00:06 Every megasecond is significant. 10:00:21 There's only so many of them left, after all. 10:00:47 `frink megasecond in days 10:00:56 2194560000 m s^2 (unknown unit type) 10:01:01 ...wat. 10:01:10 `frink Ms in days 10:01:17 2194560000 m s^2 (unknown unit type) 10:01:23 oh hm 10:01:31 `frink megasecond --> days 10:01:38 Syntax error: , line 1, near column 12 \ megasecond --> days \ ^ \ 1 error(s) occurred during parsing. 10:01:41 `frink megasecond -> days 10:01:48 625/54 (approx. 11.574074074074074) 10:01:56 sheesh 10:03:02 I like how Wikipedia is sometimes nicely deadpan in tone. 10:03:06 "According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, which would eventually reach a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable would occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s whilst using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT." 10:03:39 i love psilocybin mushrooms and DMT 10:03:41 so easy 10:04:24 * oerjan also has had such teleological attractor ideas while completely sober 10:04:54 enough to immediately understand the term without having seen it before 10:06:17 oerjan: You should also write software such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timewave_9_11_2001.png then. 10:07:59 * oerjan slightly wonders about that public domain dedication 10:08:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:10:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:02:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:26:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:38:53 Is the Hausdorff paradox good? 11:39:06 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:39:09 oerjan would surely know, but he's gone. 11:39:18 Perhaps he'll logread. 11:40:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:40:53 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 11:43:14 I feel kind of cheated. 11:43:33 I went to a talk about the Banach-Tarski paradox but it looks like it was only about the Hausdorff paradox? 11:49:17 When you go to a *real* talk on the Banach-Tarski paradox, you'll actually hear two talks on the Banach-Tarski paradox. 11:52:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:52:23 the banach-tarski paradox is weird to me 11:52:39 because it's intuitively not a paradox, you just take alternating real numbers and split the spheres apart that way 11:52:53 obviously, you can't do that, which why weird fractals have to be used instead 11:53:00 but it's intuitively much the same thing 11:54:11 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:54:26 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:55:44 I think the "paradox" part is really about the definition of volume, or something. 11:58:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:58:54 Yes, if you think of it as a solid ball made out of some nebulous things called "points", and that "volume" just means how many of those there are, then it's paradoxical to make two same-sized equally solid balls out of the points of one. 12:00:33 Points? In my finitism? 12:01:23 I always thought the more impressive thing about the paradox was doing it with finitely many pieces, without fancy transformations 12:01:43 the "you can make two spheres out of one" sorta makes sense since the spheres are infinitely dense, so halving the density makes the result equally dense 12:02:13 -!- ogrom has joined. 12:03:19 Five pieces! 12:03:21 Why is it five? 12:04:22 Conjecture: any measurable set in R^3 can be duplicated using only four pieces. 12:04:32 Actually, that is probably false 12:04:55 make it non-measurable then 12:05:18 yeah, the /five/ pieces specifically got me 12:05:25 it's like. not just finitely many. but -specifically 5- 12:06:21 It's the floor of the cube root of the reciprocal of the fine structure constant 12:07:50 How many pieces do you need in four dimensions? 12:07:51 It's five times the negative of e to the power of i times π. 12:08:42 It seems like you might need a third axis with 90° rotations? 12:08:48 But I'm just making things up, so who knows. 12:11:15 It's floor(e^e/e). 12:12:19 The ball in three dimensions is probably doable with four pieces and a bit of extra force, since one of the pieces of the five-piece case can be a single point, and really, I mean, a single point, right? 12:12:41 The version I saw only had a sphere, not a ball. 12:12:55 i love monoids 12:12:57 they are so easy 12:14:12 The abstract of the five-piece thing -- http://projecteuclid.org/DPubS?verb=Display&version=1.0&service=UI&handle=euclid.bams/1183510694&page=record -- says you can do a ball with five, and the surface with four. 12:14:20 * shachaf wonders how to make it a single point. 12:14:27 I bet it's impossible to make it a single point at 4AM. 12:15:03 fizzie: Wait, you can do a sphere with four? 12:15:08 I was told you needed five for that. 12:15:39 http://matwbn.icm.edu.pl/ksiazki/fm/fm34/fm34125.pdf found the paper itself ^^ 12:15:59 papers are so easy to find. i love them 12:16:23 Hmm. I have the feeling I will understand none of this at 4AM. 12:16:55 I don't think I'll understand this at any AM or PM ~_~ 12:17:46 Well, by understand I mean at least follow the logic, not intuitively or anything. 12:20:12 we talking about banach-tarski? 12:20:39 the proof of banach-tarski is actually amazingly simple 12:20:59 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:21:01 the problem is that the meat of it doesn't work at the centre of the sphere or along two arbitrary axes 12:21:18 which is why you have all those fiddly extra pieces 12:21:41 Phantom_Hoover: i think I might be talking about the Hausdorff paradox. 12:22:10 well you were talking about banach-tarski earlier! 12:23:09 Phantom_Hoover: Well, if Banach-Tarski is simple, I bet Hausdorff is even simpler? 12:23:25 -!- carado has joined. 12:25:18 (The WP article on Banach-Tarski has a really nice writeup of the proof, FWIW.) 12:26:43 i love proofs 12:26:45 they are so easy 12:27:17 one could even say... trivial 12:36:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:36:44 Taneb: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/keys/3.0.2/doc/html/Data-Key.html 12:37:14 Can someone arrange for there to be exactly one mathematician per last name? 12:37:20 It's pretty confusing otherwise. 12:37:20 Is there a reason lens doesn't use that? 12:37:37 edwardk hates it, or something. 12:37:42 And can I reserve being the mathematician called "van Doorn"? 12:38:16 no 12:38:18 Are you a mathematician? 12:38:20 drop one of the o's first 12:38:22 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 12:38:27 This fellow is sort of a mathematician: http://wwwhome.math.utwente.nl/~doornea/ 12:38:33 "Department of Applied Mathematics" -- maybe not. 12:38:40 University of 20 12:38:50 Dammit 12:39:00 shachaf: I said "reserve", not "be" 12:39:02 change your surname to dorn 12:39:11 Or van Dooorn. 12:39:20 van doom 12:39:39 http://genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=139020 12:39:41 http://genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=88403 12:39:44 http://www.genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=51105 12:39:53 "Classification of Regular Holonomic D-Modules" 12:40:01 Is "holonomic" a thing? 12:40:10 I guess it is. 12:40:16 aww 12:40:20 there are two mathematicians with my surname 12:40:28 better than Taneb i suppose 12:40:50 :P 12:40:51 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-modules even references van Doorn. 12:41:15 Phantom_Hoover: Is your last name "Hoover"? 12:41:27 no 12:41:32 it's mchoover obviously 12:41:38 D-modules are simply modules over the ring of differential operators 12:41:50 Taneb: Might want to `learn that. 12:41:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:42:04 `learn D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. 12:42:08 I knew that. 12:42:21 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:42:23 Let's begin the lecture with a quick review of some of the most well-known and important results in the field, due to Jake91, TrekMonster, thecrayonguy, and yuckytory. 12:43:42 Lewis Carroll and Jafet, the two best-known pioneers in the field of snark. 12:45:30 `run ls /wisdom | paste 12:45:34 ls: cannot access /wisdom: No such file or directory \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1742 12:45:44 `ls 12:45:45 bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 12:45:51 `pwd 12:45:52 ​/hackenv 12:45:55 `run ls wisdom | paste 12:46:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.746 12:46:00 Foiled again! 12:46:11 `? phantom____________________hoover 12:46:12 Your soundcard works perfectly. 12:46:21 `? välkommen 12:46:22 `? shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 12:46:22 välkommen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:46:23 shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:46:45 `? footnote 8 12:46:47 footnote 8? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:46:52 `? shachaf 12:46:54 shachaf sprø som selleri 12:47:07 `? homestuck 12:47:08 Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. 12:47:17 `run echo >wisdom/'footnote 8' "Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?" 12:47:19 `? HackEgo 12:47:21 No output. 12:47:21 Oops. 12:47:22 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 12:47:34 `?footnote 8 12:47:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?footnote: not found 12:47:36 `? footnote 8 12:47:37 Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 12:47:44 OK, it worked. 12:47:52 Did you know you could stick >file into the middle of a command line? 12:47:53 I didn't. 12:48:14 `? object 12:48:15 An object is just something in a category. 12:48:25 `? category 12:48:26 Categories are just categories. 12:48:37 `? help 12:48:38 help? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:48:41 Categories are categories in the category of categories 12:48:49 (I don't think they are) 12:49:02 `run for f in wisdom/*; do echo "$f:"; cat "$f"; echo ---; done | paste 12:49:10 hi 12:49:12 `? friendship 12:49:22 `run fortune 12:49:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2340 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: 286 File size limit exceededcat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" 12:49:24 friendship wisdom 12:49:25 I've noticed several design suggestions in your code. 12:49:28 `? monoid 12:49:29 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 12:49:36 `? egobot 12:49:37 EgoBot is my arch-nemesis. 12:49:37 Oops. 12:49:47 `? singleton 12:49:48 singleton? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:50:04 `lens 12:50:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lens: not found 12:50:10 `? lens 12:50:11 A lens is just a store comonad coalgebra. 12:50:14 `? atriq 12:50:15 atriq or two 12:50:19 `? ngevd 12:50:20 ​Im44nƢnt+D \ /B6‡zz[7V8i0V$#ŝ}NTc-R>6ѯ*Bq 12:50:26 `echo >>wisdom/d-modules " Taneb invented them." 12:50:27 ​>>wisdom/d-modules " Taneb invented them." 12:50:36 `run for f in wisdom/*; do [ "$f" == "ngevd" ] && continue; echo "$f:"; cat "$f"; echo ---; done | paste 12:50:37 I thought singletons were categories with a single object, and monoids were the little brothers of groups. 12:50:39 `run echo >>wisdom/d-modules " Taneb invented them." 12:50:47 (i suck at HackEgo) 12:50:53 `run ls 12:50:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27157 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: 286 File size limit exceededcat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" 12:50:57 No output. 12:50:58 bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 12:51:04 `? D-modules 12:51:05 `? d-modules 12:51:06 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 12:51:07 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 12:51:16 * Phantom_Hoover facepalm 12:51:18 run ls karma 12:51:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:51:37 Why didn't my thing work? 12:51:49 `run ls wisdom/*gev* 12:51:50 wisdom/ngevd 12:51:56 `walk 12:51:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: walk: not found 12:51:58 `run karma 12:52:00 Oh. 12:52:03 Segmentation fault \ Segmentation fault \ lib/karma: 11: arithmetic expression: expecting primary: "-" \ has karma. 12:52:09 `run for f in wisdom/*; do [ "$f" == "wisdom/ngevd" ] && continue; echo "$f:"; cat "$f"; echo ---; done | paste 12:52:28 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1339 \ cat: wisdom/quote formatting: Not a directory 12:52:29 help 12:52:38 `run help 12:52:39 GNU bash, version 4.1.5(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list. \ Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'. \ Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general. \ Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list. \ \ A star (* 12:53:00 `run ls -ld wisdom/*matting* 12:53:01 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 16 Jan 12 20:07 wisdom/quote formatting -> wisdom/qdbformat 12:53:11 `? quote formatting 12:53:12 quote formatting? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:53:27 `rm wisdom/quote formatting 12:53:29 No output. 12:54:24 `? qdbformat 12:54:26 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 12:54:37 `run mv wisdom/ngevd . 12:54:40 No output. 12:54:41 `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/* 12:54:46 No output. 12:54:49 `run mv ngevd wisdom/ 12:54:52 No output. 12:55:38 `? d-modules 12:55:40 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 12:55:55 `run sed -i 's/$/ (see also: d-modules)/' wisdom/taneb 12:55:58 No output. 12:56:01 `? taneb 12:56:02 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules) 12:56:24 @ask Taneb are you guilty of pretending to be a rabbi? 12:56:24 Consider it noted. 12:59:27 `? siberia 12:59:28 Siberia is the capital of Finland. It's where the Fields Medahl was first synthesised. 12:59:32 "casualties of peace" 13:07:37 `? brainf**k 13:07:38 There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck. 13:07:51 `? brain 13:07:53 Brains are just receptacles for bricks. 13:07:56 `? brick 13:07:57 Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives. 13:08:01 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:09:59 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:12:26 `run ls -l wisdom/ga* 13:12:27 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 72 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/gaspacho \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 72 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/gazpacho 13:12:37 `run diff wisdom/ga* 13:12:38 No output. 13:13:13 `? tomato soup 13:13:14 tomato soup? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:17:34 `run stat wisdom/ga* 13:17:35 ​ File: `wisdom/gaspacho' \ Size: 72 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 10h/16dInode: 751966 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2013-01-24 12:54:45.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.00000000 13:17:54 `run stat wisdom/gaz* 13:17:55 ​ File: `wisdom/gazpacho' \ Size: 72 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 10h/16dInode: 751967 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2013-01-24 12:54:45.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2013-01-24 12:54:44.00000000 13:18:39 `run rm wisdom/gazpacho && ln -s gaspacho wisdom/gazpacho 13:18:42 No output. 13:18:48 `? gazpacho 13:18:50 You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 13:23:33 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 13:26:57 in esolangs where programs can accept input, how do you usually send the source code to the interpreter? 13:27:16 avian carrier 13:28:34 Snowyowl, through a file or with an IO separator. 13:28:58 thanks 13:31:44 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:04:08 -!- boily has joined. 14:06:25 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 14:10:42 -!- boily has joined. 14:39:41 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 14:40:08 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:57:31 -!- tromp has joined. 15:02:39 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:39:22 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 15:46:55 -!- boily has joined. 15:55:17 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:59:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:15:26 -!- Bike has joined. 16:20:56 shachaf, I am guilty of playing a rabbi on stage 16:21:07 Then going to the pub in full costume and make-up as a rabbi 16:22:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:27:09 If you haven't seen it already 16:27:11 `list 16:27:12 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 16:27:27 The christmas update? 16:31:37 -!- Strigoides has joined. 16:31:45 yes 16:35:45 "It just occurred to me: the last time we saw that tree, Jade was celebrating the April 13th. Maybe this means we are finally on April 13th, 2012." 17:12:57 `? `learn 17:12:58 ​`learn is `learn 17:15:38 -!- david_werecat has joined. 17:16:59 `? david_werecat 17:17:01 david_werecat? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:20:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:21:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:31:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:37:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:49:48 -!- TodPunk has joined. 17:51:36 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:52:17 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 17:52:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:52:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:52:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:53:46 Today I found out I have a knack for vectors 17:54:01 in what way? 17:55:30 Vectors aren't hard 17:56:57 are we talking about maths vectors or computer science vectors? 17:57:28 The former 17:57:41 A knack relative to those around me 17:58:29 Taneb: For example? 17:58:58 disease vectors 18:00:04 Got a couple of sheets of exercises to do, I was the only person to finish 18:00:46 I found most of them really obvious and everyone else was struggling 18:01:06 Maybe it's because I already knew how vectors worked? 18:04:16 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:07:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:08:04 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 18:14:12 Snowyowl, cs vectors are just a subset of maths vectors 18:14:18 er wait, no they aren't 18:14:22 no scalar multiplication 18:14:51 I was thinking specifically of c++ vectors, which are the only ones I know about 18:15:02 they're like arrays but they resize themselves 18:17:00 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:17:49 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 18:30:04 cs vectors have pretty much nothing to do with math vectors 18:30:28 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:30:34 as Phantom_Hoover mentioned, they have no linear structure (which is essentially all vector spaces are) 18:30:49 oklopol: imo you are a linear structure <:-) 18:30:57 yeah i realised about 30 seconds later that you can't even add them 18:31:00 stupid cs people 18:31:21 but, vector spaces can be concretely represented as tuples containing elements of the underlying field. this is essentially c++ vectors over a type, but with fixed size. 18:31:49 uh 18:31:57 can you represent all vector spaces that way 18:32:22 in a sense, yes, but the fixed size might not be finite 18:32:28 every vector space has a basis 18:32:39 but not necessarily a finite one 18:33:01 why does it have a basis? zornify. 18:33:14 oh right, duh 18:34:06 more precisely, zornify sets of linearly independent sets. every chain has an upper bound since a union of such sets is still linearly independent. and a maximal linearly independent set is actually a basis 18:34:21 otherwise it doesn't span some element, which means that element can be added to the set etc 18:34:27 (etc meaning qed) 18:34:41 erm 18:34:51 zornify linearly independent sets. or something. 18:36:03 Taneb: what sort of problems? 18:40:35 probably dot and cross products and/or parametrised planes in 3d 18:40:49 that was all vectors were at advanced higher 18:47:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:51:38 oklopol, vector addition and scalar multiplication 18:51:42 Pretty easy stuff 18:52:11 so like you're given two vectors and you have to add them? 18:52:58 how old is Taneb 18:53:07 I am 18 18:53:29 oh okay 18:53:49 i dont understand why they are still teaching arithmetic at that age 18:54:29 oklopol, slightly more applied than that. "OACB forms a parallelogram. If O -> A is 3i + j and O -> B is 2i - 2j; what is O -> C 18:54:30 " 18:55:09 how is that more applied than summing two vectors? 18:55:20 It's applied to geometry 18:55:25 oh okay. 18:55:28 As in, it puts it in a question 18:55:30 i suppose you're right 18:55:37 It's not "What is 3i + j + 2i - 2j" 18:55:51 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Hovercraft. 18:55:57 I don't use this one very often, do I 18:55:58 Taneb|Hovercraft: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 18:56:03 @messages 18:56:03 quintopia said 4m 21d 3h 30m 33s ago: hi 18:56:55 yep 18:56:59 4m ago 18:57:03 Maybe I should try NetHack 4 at some point 18:57:03 nice jorb 19:03:31 -!- Taneb|Hovercraft has changed nick to Taneb. 19:05:56 Taneb, don't you even do vector products 19:06:10 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:08:37 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 19:09:38 Phantom_Hoover, not yet 19:09:39 Who knows 19:09:45 Haven't checked the syllabus 19:11:11 apparently you do at some point 19:28:38 I had this game as a little kid (iirc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVPp6HccTY 19:37:33 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:37:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:40:03 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:42:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:42:45 Hi 19:45:36 lo 19:47:21 shachaf: what is the hausdorff paradox. 19:47:36 oerjan: hell owelcome to #esoteirc and america 19:47:41 we,r'e happy 19:47:50 if slightly mispled 19:50:13 @tell ais523 because it's intuitively not a paradox, you just take alternating real numbers and split the spheres apart that way <-- well the fun comes when you realize you _cannot_ do banach-tarski with just a disk instead of a sphere... 19:50:13 Consider it noted. 19:53:28 oerjan: q: whats an naagram of banach-tarski 19:53:36 oerjan: a: iksach-tarban 19:54:10 `? banach-tarski 19:54:12 ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 19:54:18 my joesk funnier imo 19:54:25 OKAY 19:57:38 -!- augur has joined. 20:01:50 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:02:43 12:48:41: Categories are categories in the category of categories 20:02:43 12:48:49: (I don't think they are) 20:02:56 just change the second "categories" to "objects" hth 20:03:21 `? Categories 20:03:22 Categories? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:03:26 `? category 20:03:27 Categories are just categories. 20:04:08 `? d-modules 20:04:10 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 20:04:31 `? coapple 20:04:32 coapple? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:04:37 `? co 20:04:39 co? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:04:41 `? complement 20:04:43 complement? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:06:19 `? d-modules 20:06:20 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 20:06:41 `? endofunctor 20:06:42 Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 20:07:43 `run fmt wisdom/d-modules >wisdom/d-module; rm wisdom/d-modules 20:07:47 No output. 20:07:51 `? d-module 20:07:53 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 20:08:00 wat. 20:08:24 `run sed -i '%j' wisdom/d-module 20:08:25 sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `%' 20:08:35 `run sed -i 'j' wisdom/d-module 20:08:36 sed: -e expression #1, char 1: unknown command: `j' 20:08:59 grmble probably vim-only 20:09:12 are we having a fun oerjan 20:11:44 `run yes & 20:11:45 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 20:12:11 `run sed -i '1s/\n//' wisdom/d-module 20:12:12 No output. 20:12:16 `? d-module 20:12:17 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 20:17:11 `run od -x wisdom/d-module 20:17:12 0000000 2d44 6f6d 7564 656c 2073 7261 2065 756a \ 0000020 7473 6d20 646f 6c75 7365 6f20 6576 2072 \ 0000040 6874 2065 6972 676e 6f20 2066 6964 6666 \ 0000060 7265 6e65 6974 6c61 6f20 6570 6172 6f74 \ 0000100 7372 0a2e 5420 6e61 6265 6920 766e 6e65 \ 0000120 6574 2064 6874 6d65 0a2e \ 0000132 20:17:28 That's not as helpful as I was hoping X-D 20:17:35 oh hm... 20:17:57 `run cat wisdom/d-module | sed 's/\\/LOL/g' 20:17:58 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. \ Taneb invented them. 20:18:01 Nope, it's a newline. 20:18:12 `run sed -i -e '1N' -e 's/\n//' wisdom/d-module 20:18:15 No output. 20:18:19 `? d-module 20:18:20 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 20:18:32 * oerjan cackles maniackally 20:18:44 `run od -Ax -tx1z -v wisdom/d-module 20:18:45 000000 44 2d 6d 6f 64 75 6c 65 73 20 61 72 65 20 6a 75 >D-modules are ju< \ 000010 73 74 20 6d 6f 64 75 6c 65 73 20 6f 76 65 72 20 >st modules over < \ 000020 74 68 65 20 72 69 6e 67 20 6f 66 20 64 69 66 66 >the ring of diff< \ 000030 65 72 65 6e 74 69 61 6c 20 6f 70 65 72 61 74 6f >erential operato< \ 000040 72 73 2e 20 54 61 6e 65 62 20 69 6e 20:18:48 `run ln -s category wisdom/categories 20:18:51 No output. 20:18:56 `? categories 20:18:58 Categories are just categories. 20:19:16 `run fg 20:19:17 bash: line 0: fg: no job control 20:19:22 Damn 20:19:42 `run sleep 5 & ; echo In fact, it will always wait for all processes to terminate. 20:19:43 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `;' \ bash: -c: line 0: `sleep 5 & ; echo In fact, it will always wait for all processes to terminate.' 20:19:46 Errrrr 20:19:51 Well, you know what I mean X-D 20:19:59 `run ls wisdom 20:20:00 ​`? \ ? \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ais523 \ america \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bike \ boily \ bonvenon \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ categories \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ d-module \ egobot \ ehird \ elliott \ endofunctor \ endomorphism \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ fin 20:20:04 OKAY 20:20:11 wut? 20:20:13 `? `? 20:20:14 See `? for further details. 20:20:55 backtick question question keyboard snowman. 20:21:03 `? 🐐 20:21:04 ​🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) 20:21:07 `⌨ 20:21:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ⌨: not found 20:21:32 `run (echo test; echo ho) | sed '1N' 20:21:34 test \ ho 20:22:09 ok it actually preserves the newline then 20:24:30 `run ls wisdom/*s 20:24:31 wisdom/categories \ wisdom/finns \ wisdom/lens \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/monads \ wisdom/oceans \ wisdom/the us \ wisdom/united states 20:24:47 `? monad 20:24:48 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 20:24:52 `? monads 20:24:53 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 20:25:20 `run ls -l wisdom/monad* 20:25:21 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 57 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/monad \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 57 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/monads \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 261 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/monad tutorial 20:25:36 `? monad tutorial 20:25:37 Think of a monad as a spacesuite full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. now, you can't put oranges in the space suite or the nucelar waste falls in the ocean, but the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need. 20:25:40 `run ls -l wisdom/categor* 20:25:41 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 8 Jan 24 20:18 wisdom/categories -> category \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 32 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/category 20:25:48 spacesuite 20:26:00 It's a suite in space 20:26:06 `run rm wisdom/monads; ln -s wisdom/monad wisdom/monads 20:26:07 `rm wisdom/monad tutorial 20:26:10 No output. 20:26:11 No output. 20:30:04 oh hm 20:30:06 `? monads 20:30:07 monads? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:30:10 `? monad 20:30:12 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 20:30:16 I SEE 20:30:45 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:30:56 `revert 20:30:58 Done. 20:31:03 `? monads 20:31:04 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 20:31:14 `cat bin/? 20:31:15 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic" 20:31:42 `rm wisdom/categories 20:31:45 No output. 20:31:51 `? category 20:31:52 Categories are just categories. 20:32:15 Has anyone else entered Al Zimmermann's programming contest? 20:33:24 `run ls wisdom/* 20:33:25 wisdom/`? \ wisdom/? \ wisdom/☃ \ wisdom/⌨ \ wisdom/🐐 \ wisdom/ais523 \ wisdom/america \ wisdom/atriq \ wisdom/augur \ wisdom/banach-tarski \ wisdom/bike \ wisdom/boily \ wisdom/bonvenon \ wisdom/brain \ wisdom/brainf**k \ wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/brick \ wisdom/burma \ wisdom/c \ wisdom/cakeprophet \ wisdom/california \ wisdom/category \ w 20:33:41 `? ⌨ 20:33:42 You are probably using one right now! 20:33:46 aaah. I knew it! 20:34:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:34:17 `? c 20:34:19 C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 20:35:20 i liked the category one that was about endomorphisms :( 20:37:30 `? endomorphism 20:37:31 Endomorphisms are just morphisms which compose with themselves. 20:38:00 Bike: which one? 20:38:25 I don't remember, it was "categories are just..." format 20:39:30 @quote analogies.are 20:39:30 dmwit says: analogies are endofunctors in the category of bad explanations 20:40:28 Bike: are you sure it started with categories 20:41:13 no. 20:43:26 `? monad 20:43:27 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 20:44:02 `? endofunctor 20:44:04 Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 20:44:11 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 20:44:11 Oh, that's what I was thinking of. 20:44:15 Mystery Solved 20:47:49 `run ls wisdom | grep -v ngevd | xargs grep -H dahl 20:47:51 grep: `?: No such file or directory \ grep: ?: No such file or directory \ grep: ⌨: No such file or directory \ grep: ☃: No such file or directory \ grep: 🐐: No such file or directory \ grep: ais523: No such file or directory \ grep: america: No such file or directory \ grep: atriq: No such file or directory \ grep: augur: No such file or di 20:48:49 `run cd wisdom; ls | grep -v ngevd | xargs grep -H dahl 20:48:51 bonvenon:bonvenon Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-o: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dahl.net.) \ esoteric:This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc. 20:49:36 `run cd wisdom; ls | grep -v ngevd | xargs grep -l dahl 20:49:38 bonvenon \ esoteric \ grep: footnote: No such file or directory \ grep: 8: No such file or directory \ grep: misspellings: No such file or directory \ grep: of: No such file or directory \ grep: croissant: No such file or directory \ grep: natural: No such file or directory \ grep: transformation: No such file or directory \ grep: shachaf: No such 20:49:59 argh 20:51:05 `run cd wisdom; find -print0 | grep -v ngevd | xargs -0 grep -l dahl 20:51:06 No output. 20:51:22 ...oh wait. 20:53:00 `run cd wisdom; mv ngevd ..; grep -l dahl *; mv ../ngevd . 20:53:02 bonvenon \ esoteric \ siberia \ välkommen \ welcome \ wercome 20:53:11 `? bonvenon 20:53:12 bonvenon Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-o: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dahl.net.) 20:53:18 `? esoteric 20:53:20 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dahl.net. 20:53:25 `? siberia 20:53:26 Siberia is the capital of Finland. It's where the Fields Medahl was first synthesised. 20:54:21 `? välkommen 20:54:22 Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dahl.net.) 20:54:28 `? welcome 20:54:29 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dahl.net.) 20:54:33 `? wercome 20:54:34 ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dahl.netの#esotericへ) 20:54:43 :-D 20:55:35 `run cd wisdom; mv ngevd ..; sed -i 's/dahl/dal/g' * ; mv ../ngevd . 20:55:39 No output. 20:56:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 20:57:05 -!- david_werecat has joined. 20:57:07 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf. 20:57:07 -!- oerjan has kicked shachaf WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU. 20:57:14 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 20:57:22 k 20:57:34 … 20:58:13 on the one hand, the japanese translation is very good, but then ørjan banned shachaf with extreme prejudice. 20:59:05 Um... wut 20:59:05 Did oerjan just kickban shachaf 20:59:32 `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/* 21:00:05 :-D 21:01:13 :D 21:01:21 That being said, fix it properly: 21:01:31 `? gaspacho 21:01:32 You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 21:01:35 `revert 1713 21:01:35 what the hell just happened 21:01:37 Done. 21:01:41 `? gazpacho 21:01:42 You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 21:01:49 `run hg diff -r1703:1702 | patch -p1 21:01:55 patching file wisdom/bonvenon \ patching file wisdom/esoteric \ patching file wisdom/monad \ patching file wisdom/siberia \ patching file wisdom/välkommen \ patching file wisdom/welcome \ patching file wisdom/wercome 21:02:06 oerjan 21:02:11 ARGH 21:02:12 why did you kickban shachaf 21:02:37 Gregor: btw that's the same as hg diff -c 1703 21:02:38 aiui 21:02:50 Herpdurp 21:02:58 `? footnote 8 21:03:00 Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 21:03:05 does anyone understand this entry 21:03:12 `? footnote 42 21:03:13 footnote 42? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:03:17 or what d-modules are 21:03:25 `? d-modules 21:03:27 d-modules? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:03:36 Gregor: btw it is annoying that the revision numbers are not shown on the main log listing 21:03:38 well i can't exactly explain now 21:03:46 looks like SOMEONE removed an entry by accident 21:03:50 `learn D-Modules are simply modules in the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 21:03:53 `? d-module 21:03:53 I knew that. 21:03:54 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 21:03:59 oerjan: Yeah, 'struth... happen to know of an hgweb style that shows them? 21:04:08 `rm wisdom/d-modules 21:04:11 No output. 21:04:15 im idiot 21:04:18 elliott, well there you go 21:04:37 `learn `learn learns about `learn. 21:04:40 I knew that. 21:04:47 I REMOVED IT BECAUSE LOOKUPS SHOULD BE SINGULAR FIRST, ALSO SOFT LINKS DON'T WORK IN WISDOM 21:04:50 `? `learn 21:04:51 ​`learn learns about `learn. 21:04:59 meh. oh well... 21:05:03 oerjan: aum 21:05:06 `run rm wisdom/`learn 21:05:07 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 21:05:13 `run rm wisdom/\`learn 21:05:16 No output. 21:05:24 `run ls -l wisdom/ngevd 21:05:25 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/ngevd -> /dev/urandom 21:06:01 `run ls bin | grep '^qu' 21:06:02 quachaf \ queegan \ quoerjan \ quørjan \ quote \ quotes 21:06:10 `run ls bin | grep 'rjan$' 21:06:12 quoerjan \ quørjan \ translatetoerjan \ zalgoerjan 21:07:10 `? zalgoerjan 21:07:11 zalgoerjan? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:07:20 `zalgoerjan 21:07:22 o̐eͨȓj̱a̽n̯ ͐ 21:07:29 ...ok i don't know why ngevd works when the others didn't. 21:07:38 `? gazpacho 21:07:40 You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 21:07:42 `? ngevd 21:07:44 ​$8544LoۮOƴ?H\rb+E/lq:)~%0]'+.Puy!TIӫ \ 6/ȱtO5Ӟh \ *YgƿRZj54O?Нq[H·/FB8fr(٪.#mh-,jOm*ωb̗lÖS_d2tQ1Yu^舘|-!F_s9fp"lHji!\F*t%:@62n%i2ܵ㛫lŅ.kT"e8^#֡4HJ6R{јq%Zh 21:07:48 ...why did that work. 21:07:52 EEK 21:07:58 the ngevd entry is the best thing in the universe imo 21:08:00 oerjan: Since when do the others not? category worked fine. 21:08:37 ngevd transcends links. 21:08:47 argh 21:08:57 isn't ngevd a hardlink 21:09:08 `ls -l wisdom/ngevd 21:09:09 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 21:09:16 `runls -l wisdom/ngevd 21:09:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: runls: not found 21:09:19 `run ls -l wisdom/ngevd 21:09:20 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Jan 24 12:54 wisdom/ngevd -> /dev/urandom 21:09:27 this window is the worst window 21:11:36 -!- davidwerecat has joined. 21:11:36 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:47 Gregor: while you're at it find a style that allows wikipedia style single change undo. i made a mess and now you've already changed things. :( which is the same reason i got angry at shachaf btw :P 21:12:27 Single change undo: `run hg diff -c | patch -p1 21:12:42 Gregor: ITYM patch -R 21:12:45 Err, patch -R -c1 for -c 21:12:47 Yeah 21:12:49 Hyuk 21:12:58 patch -R -p1 >_< 21:13:00 `run echo "#!/bin/sh" >bin/undo; echo 'hg diff -c "$@" | patch -R' >>bin/undo; chmod +x bin/undo 21:13:00 You get what I mean. 21:13:04 No output. 21:13:05 that's the form I've used in the patch 21:13:07 er 21:13:07 in the past 21:13:23 Pretty sure it needs -p1... 21:13:54 `undo 1721 21:13:56 The next patch, when reversed, would delete the file undo, \ which does not exist! Ignore -R? [n] \ Apply anyway? [n] \ Skipping patch. \ 1 out of 1 hunk ignored 21:14:00 lol 21:14:21 `run hg diff -c 1721 21:14:23 diff -r 63d5921a3c8a -r ab80805a8878 bin/undo \ --- /dev/nullThu Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 +0000 \ +++ b/bin/undoThu Jan 24 21:13:03 2013 +0000 \ @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@ \ +#!/bin/sh \ +hg diff -c "$@" | patch -R 21:14:27 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?revcount=100&rev=-R 21:14:32 Oh, it is -p0 >_> 21:14:35 this shows that I've used | patch -R in the past 21:14:41 `? welcome 21:14:42 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:14:43 I guess I'm imagining things. 21:17:57 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 21:18:12 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf. 21:18:21 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 21:31:33 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 21:38:52 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 21:48:23 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:55:19 Do GCC or LLVM do any calculation such as strlen and strdup and so on at compile time if possible? 21:56:14 strdup at compile time? 21:58:15 For example if there is a code only running once, which calls strdup("Hello, World!") which is also known not to be realloc or free, it might be able to place it in a separate buffer if the target ABI supports that, and the optimization settings are correct for that. 21:58:39 But even if it is dynamic and runs more than once, the string length can be optimized if it is faster to copy the memory knowing the length ahead of time. 21:59:10 Does the new C standards have a "memdup" command, or only "strdup"? 21:59:24 memcpy? 22:00:30 I mean that memdup will be like malloc and memcpy together. 22:02:27 Or even such optimization that might be done, such as printf("%u",x%10) might be able to be changed to putchar((x%10)+'0') 22:02:36 -!- shachaf has joined. 22:02:53 strdup with you casting the memory to char* isn't ok? 22:03:11 no, it might have nulls 22:03:12 Oops? 22:03:16 hichaf 22:03:28 kmc: Yes, that is what I mean. 22:03:39 well, memdup seems easy to write, at least 22:03:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:03:54 Yes, I do think it is easy to write. 22:04:18 I guess oerjan is really not a fan of Roald Dahl? 22:04:39 printf for constant strings seems like it'd be a profitable optimization, not to mention helps safety? 22:04:56 shachaf what did you do 22:05:13 What oerjan said. 22:05:33 oerjan what did you say 22:05:43 20:59:32: `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/* 22:05:53 Something mentioned on esolang wiki is optimizing to save energy. Does any compiler do this? Is it even possible in any cases? 22:06:20 like, physical power? 22:06:27 Yes 22:06:38 maybe for embedded systems or something, i doubt anyone cares for desktops 22:07:23 Is "We might call you in a few months if an entry-level Python position becomes available" the same as "Fuck you, you'll never hear from us again?" 22:10:31 I guess oerjan is really not a fan of Roald Dahl? <-- not when he's sabotaging urls, no. 22:11:11 That's a domain name, not a URL. 22:11:26 Anyway, OK? URLs are off-limits? 22:13:13 THAT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE AN EXHAUSTIVE RULE 22:14:08 I thought the whole point of HackEgo was chaos etc. or something. 22:16:41 from chaos one passes to enlightened dictatorship. haven't you read your hobbes? 22:16:47 (me neither) 22:21:39 Welcome bachaf 22:26:24 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:30:59 oerjan: omg you finally banned shachaf 22:31:04 also, why is he back? 22:31:47 :-( 22:32:06 or perhaps thay should be "finally shachaf" ... one does not simply the verb, after all 22:32:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:35:44 "Very little has been said about this... " is not an appropriate start of the thousandth repost of the runner-does-nice-thing picture and story 22:36:49 (in a related story: whenever someone has their faith in humanity restored, mine is torn asunder yet again) 22:43:21 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 22:45:25 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 22:47:57 -!- asiekierka has joined. 22:50:10 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:55:53 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:58:39 * shachaf tries to figure out how serious oerjan was. 22:59:42 I think what happens when I switch languages is something like 22:59:46 why the fuc 22:59:47 i was very annoyed. 22:59:48 k 22:59:54 are my socks 22:59:57 in the wastebin 23:00:46 "I'm obviously looking for Smalltalk-like languages, why not just go Smalltalk.... ... I'm obviously looking for a language that does W, why not G which is known for W 23:00:49 Lather, rinse, repeat 23:01:03 Either that or I avoid looking at G because of Q 23:01:24 Phantom_Hoover: do they have holes? 23:01:29 no 23:01:33 Where Q may be a bad stereotype of the reason I last stoppe d at G, which was actually reason R 23:01:40 pidgeons have holes, socks don't? 23:01:43 Also, I am an alphabet. 23:01:59 Sgeo cut down on your variables 23:02:11 single-letter variable names are a blight sgeo 23:02:33 * variable does a jig 23:02:34 `addquote why the fuc i was very annoyed. k are my socks in the wastebin 23:02:37 935) why the fuc i was very annoyed. k are my socks in the wastebin 23:02:48 `? qdbformat 23:02:49 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 23:02:53 Sgeo: wat. 23:03:10 oerjan, I am in love with Phantom_Hoover's inadvertant double meaning of k 23:03:30 (this is where Sgeo meticulously reformats according to The Rules, then someone decides the quote isn't funny in the first place) 23:03:43 oerjan: So... No changing `welcome? 23:03:48 `revert 23:03:49 single-letter variable names are a blight sgeo 23:03:50 Done. 23:04:04 Sgeo: k 23:04:05 computer scientist pansy 23:04:16 `addquote why the fuc i was very annoyed. k are my socks in the wastebin 23:04:19 935) why the fuc i was very annoyed. k are my socks in the wastebin 23:04:23 Like that, or did I screw up? 23:04:45 Phantom_Hoover: A BLIGHT 23:04:48 i mean seriously, why would you ever want more than 100 variables 23:05:04 wastebin looked like it was cut off for a second 23:05:05 ugh don't remind me of TI programming 23:05:26 shachaf: i suggest sitting very still and not moving. then _maybe_ you won't annoy me. 23:05:29 Bike, ok, next time I shall use foo bar baz foobar foobaz barfoo barbaz etc 23:05:41 * oerjan just blew it, didn't he. 23:06:08 oerjan: Should I leave? 23:06:14 don't leave :( 23:06:14 Sgeo: damn straight 23:07:01 * Sgeo concurs with everyone whom it is possible to concur with even if said concurring implies holding contradictory beliefs about whether shachaf should leave 23:07:10 shachaf: i wasn't being entirely sreiosu in the two pervious sentiwtf is with my typing 23:07:12 DIATHELIST 23:07:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superficiality 23:07:21 great npov there wikipedia 23:07:27 wow i can't spell that word reliably 23:07:29 I was trying to scroll back to a shachaf ban motivation but found "* oerjan cackles maniackally" 23:07:48 shachaf probably literally asked for it though 23:08:07 Phantom_Hoover: nuh uh it's cited. "21stC urban parlance speaks of 'a barometer of shallowness...the scale of superficiality'.[3]" 23:08:24 olsner: No, I stopped with the asking-to-be-kicked thing a while ago. 23:08:31 cited to urban dictionary 23:08:34 maybe the effect was just delayed 23:08:38 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:09:14 hmm, if this was only the implementation of the first of those request, you may yet be kicked many times 23:09:18 olsner: that was when i found sed's N command 23:09:19 olsner: The motivation was: `run sed -i s/dal/dahl/g wisdom/* 23:09:52 How many uses of dal are there in wisdom? 23:10:09 ah, yes, the cackling is a common side effect of sed 23:10:44 `? siberia 23:10:45 Siberia is the capital of Finland. It's where the Fields Medal was first synthesised. 23:10:47 That's one. 23:10:48 Sgeo: all the welcome texts use it due to mentioning dalnet 23:11:22 Sgeo: the siberia one and the welcomes 23:11:37 *dahlnet 23:11:40 Hmm, wasn't aware that `welcome used wisdom behind the scenes 23:11:56 `cat bin/wisdom 23:11:57 cat: bin/wisdom: No such file or directory 23:12:06 `cat bin/welcome 23:12:07 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 23:12:09 `wisdom bar 23:12:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdom: not found 23:12:19 See: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1339 23:12:39 encoding is hard, huh 23:12:46 `? `? 23:12:48 See `? for further details. 23:13:17 `cat bin/@ 23:13:18 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; } 23:13:35 @ source code leaked! 23:14:15 Are there sane people who write Perl code? 23:14:34 No 23:15:18 * shachaf wonders whether people will ever stop with the "ha ha perl = bad" thing. 23:15:19 then again, not writing perl code doesn't necessarily make you sane 23:15:46 shachaf: probably not 23:16:01 wtf is ga[sz]pacho? 23:16:05 `@ Sgeo ? mad 23:16:06 Sgeo: "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 23:16:22 `run cat bin/welcome 23:16:24 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 23:16:35 apt quote for the channel, I feel 23:16:40 or hope 23:16:40 `? u 23:16:42 u monad? 23:16:52 * Sgeo wonders which is more opaque, Perl or APL 23:16:58 Sgeo: a spanish soup, traditionally served cold for hot summer days 23:17:47 Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restricted to normal (ascii?) characters, I guess 23:17:49 `@ shachaf ? you 23:17:50 shachaf: you a haskell 23:18:07 `learn gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days 23:18:11 I knew that. 23:18:23 probably spelled gaszpaczo 23:18:25 `addquote Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restricted to normal (ascii?) characters, I guess 23:18:28 936) Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restricted to normal (ascii?) characters, I guess 23:18:29 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 23:18:31 olsner: Good point. 23:18:44 olsner: (PLEASE FIX) 23:19:48 `learn gazspacho is a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 23:19:53 I knew that. 23:20:04 or perhaps ch is almost equivalent in polish 23:20:12 wtf is ga[sz]pacho? 23:20:15 cold tomato soup 23:20:16 oh hm 23:20:23 `revert 23:20:24 Done. 23:20:30 23:20:30 `learn gazspaczo is a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 23:20:36 I knew that. 23:20:37 unless it's one of those weird cases where ch is a k sound 23:20:46 * Sgeo did not mean to refer to either gaspach or gazpach 23:21:37 `sed -i 's/is/iz/' wisdom/gazspaczo 23:21:38 Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script- 23:21:41 `run sed -i 's/is/iz/' wisdom/gazspaczo 23:21:44 No output. 23:22:17 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:22:43 `? gazpacho 23:22:44 You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 23:23:32 `? soup 23:23:34 soup? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:23:34 I'm almost certain that's a reference to something, but I'm not sure what 23:23:42 Sgeo: homestuck 23:23:51 elliott: What? 23:23:58 `learn soup is like soup 23:24:00 shachaf: its a joke. im making a humerous joke for kidding purposes. 23:24:02 `run echo "What soup, doc?" >wisdom/soup 23:24:02 I knew that. 23:24:05 No output. 23:24:06 ty for ruining it 23:24:10 `run echo "What soup, Doc?" >wisdom/soup 23:24:14 No output. 23:24:22 elliott: np "its wat im hear 4 rite" 23:24:43 olsner: SORRY OVERRULED YOU WITH FAMOUS REFERENCE 23:24:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_Call_the_Whole_Thing_Off 23:24:59 i prefferedererf olsner's 23:25:00 duck soup? 23:25:18 `? szoup 23:25:20 szoup? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:25:23 ...not _that_ famous 23:27:23 Fuck flash 23:29:28 Thanks to Mumble using a speech synthesizer for text chat, i realized “:P” is colon pee. 23:30:13 i.e. diarrhea? 23:30:47 (hopefully that will be all for tonight's installment of #esoteric-bodily-functions) 23:31:34 `run echo "A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit." >wisdom/szoup 23:31:38 No output. 23:31:49 I can't see a channel name and not join it 23:31:55 #include 23:31:58 23:32:01 oerjan: has that translation been validated by all the eels in your hovercraft? 23:32:04 wat 23:32:30 * Topic for #include is: I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. 23:32:44 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:33:25 olsner: no, just by hungarian wikipedia. 23:33:36 * Topic for #include set by unknown at Thu May 29 15:24:17 2008 23:33:50 Woak 23:33:53 *Woah 23:33:58 -NickServ- Registered : Mar 08 14:58:34 2002 (10 years, 46 weeks, 3 days, 08:35:08 ago) 23:34:00 -NickServ- Last seen : now 23:34:36 ...what's whoah about this exactly 23:35:02 "someone spent NEARLY ELEVEN YEARS DOING SOMETHING REGULARLY" 23:35:29 "they must be, like, in their THIRTIES by now" 23:36:39 oerjan: ok, must be correct then 23:37:10 unless someone just went and made up a bunch of pretend-hungarian and put it on the hungarian wikipedia 23:38:20 i think it's even a quote, the original has quote marks 23:38:46 Phantom_Hoover: doing what regularly 23:40:40 "An object is just something in a category." 23:40:51 "something" needs to be elaborated on, clearly. 23:40:58 "A something is just something in a something." 23:41:05 objects are kind of the very nature of somethingness 23:42:02 Sgeo seems to object. 23:42:04 "Something, is soup." 23:42:18 `run ls wisdom | grep s 23:42:20 ais523 \ banach-tarski \ endomorphism \ esoteric \ finnish \ finns \ friendship \ gaspacho \ gaszpacho \ gazspacho \ gazspaczo \ haskell \ helsinki \ homestuck \ hom-set \ itidus19 \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lens \ lifthrasiir \ maths \ misspellings of croissant \ monads \ morphism \ natural transformation \ oceans \ olsner \ scotland \ sge 23:42:30 `? scotland 23:42:32 Scotland is a country in northern Britain. It is known for having no true inhabitants. The official religion is hatheism. Phantom_Hoover looks after the FREEDOM. 23:42:43 `? misspellings of croissant 23:42:44 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:42:59 `? misspellings of croissant 23:43:00 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:43:10 same answer every time, how boring 23:43:54 How have I failed to see my wisdom all this time? 23:43:56 `? sgeo 23:43:57 Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex. 23:44:10 i hope you're suitably whelmed. 23:44:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:44:28 `? hom-set 23:44:29 Hom-sets are just sets of morphisms between two objects. 23:45:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:45:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:45:37 `? spam 23:45:39 Spam is a delicious meat product. See http://www.spamjamhawaii.com/ 23:45:51 There is a Spam Jam. Why is there a Spam Jam. 23:46:51 What's next, parties for other BRANDNAME PRODUCTYPE products? 23:47:11 it is jam made from spam 23:47:18 Wait, that implies that I think that Spam is a type of jma 23:47:21 jam 23:47:44 why do you think spam is jam? 23:47:48 i love szpam 23:48:06 `? cyberiad 23:48:07 cyberiad? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:48:15 in poland some people's names start with szcz 23:48:41 `? wisom isn't very liar paradoxy 23:48:41 `run >wisdom/cyberiad echo The Cyberiad is not just a book. 23:48:42 wisom isn't very liar paradoxy? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:48:44 No output. 23:48:48 `? wisdom 23:48:49 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry 23:48:51 Not very liar paradoxy 23:49:27 szyberiad 23:50:22 `run >wisdom/'structural subtyping' echo Not to be confused with substructural typing. 23:50:25 No output. 23:50:30 `run >wisdom/'substructural typing' echo Not to be confused with structural subtyping. 23:50:33 No output. 23:50:50 `? monoids 23:50:52 monoids? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:50:57 `learn monoids are so easy :D 23:51:00 I knew that. 23:51:05 `rm wisdom/monoids 23:51:05 `? monoid 23:51:08 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 23:51:10 No output. 23:51:28 Easiness is so easy :D 23:51:54 `learn Monoids are the easy version of categories. 23:51:58 I knew that. 23:52:21 ...now i'm annoyed again. 23:52:36 Am I making wisdom/ worse? 23:52:47 shachaf: ...good point. 23:53:05 It wasn't meant to be a point, but OK. 23:53:24 `? oerjan 23:53:25 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian. 23:53:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:54:11 IMO we should just nuke all of wisdom/ except for the entries for places 23:54:21 `? places 23:54:22 places? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:54:24 hey now 23:54:33 the original `? monad is a classic 23:54:40 `? monad 23:54:41 monads 23:54:49 `? monads 23:54:51 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 23:54:58 WHAT 23:55:19 haha 23:55:28 your dumb plural scheme is defeated 23:55:54 What scheme? 23:56:32 a scheme most devious 23:56:41 `? devious 23:56:42 devious? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:56:56 `run echo dumb > wisdom/devious 23:56:59 No output. 23:58:43 `? devious 23:58:44 dumb 23:58:57 oh, is that what it means 23:59:34 elliott: a bit more of this and i'll start agreeing with you. 2013-01-25: 00:00:49 yes, the abuse of wisdom has been heading overboardwards, of late 00:00:59 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 00:01:21 `? wisdom 00:01:24 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry 00:04:00 the temporariness of everything, including information, has become grating on me. 00:05:38 * pikhq despises the first week or two of math courses. 00:05:51 No, "theory of numbers", you *really* don't need to go over induction again. 00:06:24 `? i 00:06:25 i? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:06:31 `learn i love monoids 00:06:33 I knew that. 00:06:38 so you are saying we don't need to go over induction for the n+1'th time if we've done it for the n'th time? 00:06:57 *'st 00:06:59 oerjan++ 00:07:39 oerjan++ 00:08:06 oerjan: have you considered the temporariness of the letter ø 00:08:07 :( 00:08:55 elliott: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 00:09:02 temporariness? 00:09:04 `? ø 00:09:05 ​ø? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:09:12 `learn ø is not going anywhere 00:09:15 I knew that. 00:09:36 `? Ø 00:09:37 ​Ø? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:26:19 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 00:26:21 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 00:30:04 Does SQLite support UTF-8 codes outside of the Unicode range? 00:32:48 Actually, can I even just store arbitrary bytes having the length function to not count 0x80-0xBF range bytes? 00:35:43 -!- augur has joined. 00:54:36 -!- Rachiel has joined. 01:03:02 -!- davidwerecat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:05:25 I made the search function of Internet Quiz Engine to work now. 01:08:18 -!- monqy has joined. 01:18:08 -!- Rachiel1 has joined. 01:18:47 -!- Rachiel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:19:09 -!- Rachiel1 has left. 01:25:24 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 01:26:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:33:10 kmc: It probably won't change even then. 01:35:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:00:27 oh 02:00:31 this cross channel thing is confusing shachaf 02:00:42 it would be less confusing with zephyr conventions 02:00:48 where most people read all traffic in one window 02:00:57 and where you have subject tags which could be "else" or "#mosh" 02:01:17 What are zephyr conventions? And what do the subject tags do? 02:01:53 kmc: Well, I don't talk in #mosh. 02:02:08 How can I connect to relevant Zephyr networks? 02:06:07 you can't, basically 02:06:22 Oh. 02:06:25 Can you? 02:06:41 get an athena account or maybe a club.cc.cmu.edu account or one of a few others 02:06:45 yes because i have an athena account 02:06:49 Ah. 02:07:28 How did you get it? 02:10:17 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:11:24 helping with Mosh which is sort of a SIPB project 02:14:02 What was that thing that I've done that kmc said was more obscure than Zephyr? 02:14:08 * Sgeo already forgot the name 02:14:16 gale? 02:14:19 Yes 02:14:22 4-HO-DiPT? 02:14:27 Gale 02:15:04 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 02:16:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:16:47 -!- augur has joined. 02:20:10 ok 02:20:13 when did you use Gale? 02:20:50 oddly, the Zephyr protocol is about as old as IRC, despite 'feeling' much fancier and newer 02:21:08 i guess it goes to show that people in the 80's could design fancy systems too, but it's only the simple ones that have survived to today 02:21:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:21:27 Zephyr wants Kerberos and it wants no NAT and a daemon on every host and a bunch of other things 02:21:36 it wasn't even designed as a human chat protocol 02:22:20 Nor was obby, but it's great for it! 02:23:00 zephyr sounds exciting 02:28:58 `list 02:28:59 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 02:29:32 kmc, I just remember finding it on Wikipedia and using some web interface to it that's now defunct 02:29:37 Probably years ago 02:29:40 Yammer I think? 02:30:07 we're going to run out of synonyms at some point soon D: 02:30:31 Yammer is an enterprise social network thing but maybe there's also a Gale thing of the same name 02:36:58 kmc: how you enjoying twitter so far? 02:37:09 's pretty good 02:39:27 have already found a lot of interesting links and it is a lot less unpleasant than reading Hacker News 02:39:35 \rainbow{social networks} 02:41:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:41:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:42:55 cool 02:42:57 I never got into HN 02:42:57 perhaps that's for the best :P 02:43:38 it has enough cool stuff that I feel like I'm missing out by not reading it 02:43:51 but it also has a lot of noise and a pretty steady rate of aggrivating bullshit 02:43:55 I've glanced at it lately looking for interesting things but it just seems to have this horrible signal/noise ratio 02:44:02 like even *slashdot* is better 02:44:15 it's mostly about how some mobile social local ad company you've never heard of just got $100 million dollars for doing nothing 02:44:19 I think even my tumblr dashboard is better 02:44:40 and endless arguments over who is a real hacker or not 02:44:53 and paul graham hero-worship 02:45:14 basically i count on my friends and extended social network to send me interesting links at at least the rate i can read them 02:45:36 kmc: and you count on me to provide the noise you're missing out on 02:45:50 is "real hacker" actually a thing 02:46:02 integer hacker 02:46:02 copumpkin did you see the crypto challenges mentioned on twitter: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/292005256416612353 02:46:05 Bike: yes 02:46:09 * copumpkin <- real hacker 02:46:22 man even xkcd's made fun of that though 02:46:26 kmc: nope, but I assume that's some sort of job thing? 02:46:32 probably 02:46:45 given it's matasano :) 02:46:50 kmc: there's also like, all the navelgazing stuff 02:46:52 -!- augur has joined. 02:46:54 it'd be odd to do a "in your free time" project @matasano 02:47:02 like 1000 blog posts about "how to be productive" or "how I built an X in Y hours" 02:47:12 like, I assume that if I solve them all, I will be able to get an interview there if I want 02:47:13 "how to be productive" posts are sad 02:47:16 but that's not why i'm doing it 02:47:22 the Stripe CTFs are also a job thing in a sense 02:47:28 but were plenty of fun 02:47:30 oh, you're doing it 02:47:33 cool 02:47:35 maybe that's just because i'm violently unproductive. 02:47:36 yeah 02:47:41 how do I gain the ability to tell matasano and monsanto apart 02:47:45 please advise 02:47:49 elliott: drink a bottle of Round-Up 02:48:54 Bike: I always find them kinda funny because it's like 02:49:00 daeken used to work at matasano iirc 02:49:02 someone is *blogging* (not being productive) about being productive 02:49:04 if anyone knows him 02:49:20 that's not intrinsically absurd 02:49:28 but yeah people wank a lot about productivity instead of being productive 02:49:42 they also wank a lot about how programmers are magical special snowflakes and therefore can't be held to the same standards as other human beings 02:49:55 but it's true! 02:49:57 Fiora: right 02:50:08 I need my hand held 02:50:08 there's also just. the whole bubble mentality of how like, everyone inside silicon valley is so blissfully unaware a world exists outside 02:50:39 which probably hurts them a lot too, since it means the people making startups have no idea what their users are like at all, and guess based on Glee reruns 02:50:57 that's a sad and disturbing thought. 02:51:11 remember that just by being a programmer you are an expert in all areas 02:51:26 you're automatically an expert on how painters work and can compare yourself favorably to them 02:51:35 wank about singularity here 02:51:47 we should metawank 02:51:51 ah well 02:52:17 complain about complaining about HN complaints about mainstream culture's complaints about HN? 02:52:20 XD 02:52:24 recursively meta wank! 02:52:25 Bike: can we tie the knot somehow? 02:52:34 like, have them complain about us doing that 02:52:42 then we should complain about how it's circular 02:52:53 (Oh, and of course, as unspokenly obvious as it is, HN's endless sexism) 02:52:55 i don't live in SF therefore my opinion is so insignificant it's not worth complaining about 02:52:56 my type theory isn't capable of expressing this 02:53:03 and then plot to find new ways to make our complaining more elaborate 02:53:46 in other cool startup news 02:53:54 has anyone tried the new portal 2 maps? 02:54:20 was valve a startup at some point? 02:54:40 presumably :P but I mean another startup made a custom campaign for portal 2 02:54:45 presumably as part of recruitment efforts 02:54:55 * Bike didn't know that id started out selling fucking shareware, though. out of it 02:55:04 I remember that 02:55:27 (the mario clone was funnier though) 02:55:54 wasn't doom shareware 02:56:19 yes. 02:58:52 they also tried making a mario port to PCs, it's great. 02:58:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:59:16 is it super violent? 02:59:19 also, does Wario have a brother? 02:59:34 -!- augur has joined. 02:59:48 did anyone here play http://stabyourself.net/mari0/ 03:00:02 not I 03:00:02 yes D 03:00:04 *:D 03:00:16 got bored fast, honestly, the old levels are way too easy 03:00:20 copumpkin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUJ9xWw8_lQ 03:03:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:15:15 copumpkin: Does Waluigi count? 03:15:25 probably 03:15:51 OkCupid/HelloQuizzy and Internet Quiz Engine have *many* similarities (even that one is written in C++ and one in C). The quiz is the following: Which one do you think was based on the other one? 03:16:56 Are those web apps? 03:17:14 Lumpio-: One is. 03:17:26 Why would anybody write something like that in C/++ 03:17:45 Guess. 03:17:53 they've listened to people talking about php 03:18:00 zzo38: i doubt iqe is based on anything else :P 03:18:32 quintopia: Correct, but... that doesn't actually answer the question... 03:18:50 Lumpio-: Would you use different programming languages? 03:19:18 C is surely faster and more efficient than PHP. 03:19:21 zzo38: so you're asking whether okc or hq came first? 03:19:32 i couldnt guess, because i've never seen hq 03:19:38 quintopia: No. I am asking: "Which one do you think was based on the other one?" 03:20:05 Yes and if you're good at hand-optimizing, pure ASM is even more fast 03:20:06 zzo38: i doubt anything is based on iqe either 03:20:29 -!- madbr has joined. 03:20:38 why is "asm" capitalized? is it an initialism i am unaware of 03:20:54 (Note that "OkCupid/HelloQuizzy" are both the same online quiz software.) 03:21:12 and i think iqe was based on the other one. 03:21:23 Bike: No, wrong. 03:21:39 It is a trick question! Neither was based on the other one! 03:21:40 !!!!! 03:21:46 well played, sir. 03:22:16 zzo38: i didnt know okc and hq were the same 03:22:53 quintopia: Well, the quiz engine, the quiz database, all that is the same at least; even though the webpages are different, they both contain the same quizzes and everything. 03:22:54 but you can see that i said that iqe was neither based on them nor were they based on iqe, so that means i got it right!!!! 03:22:57 (I don't know why.) 03:23:08 quintopia: No, it means you did not get it wrong. 03:23:57 zzo38: there were no other possibilities once you ruled out the possibility that okc was based on hq or vice versa, so by process of elimination, i arrived at the right answer 03:24:34 In that case I must have misunderstood you, or vice versa. 03:25:08 so, what's my prize? 03:25:36 There is no prize. 03:26:21 :( 03:26:26 what was the quiz for then? 03:26:30 what is a quiz without a prize! 03:26:49 Many quiz don't have a prize, it doesn't necessarily need one. 03:27:15 kmc: Do you know a lot about making MD5 collisions? 03:27:25 a little 03:27:31 The quizzes on OkCupid/HelloQuizzy, and the quizzes on Internet Quiz Engine, have no prize, and most others don't have prize either but I think some may have. 03:27:46 third prize is you're fired 03:27:50 How common will be MD5 collisions if you don't try to make it deliberately? 03:27:55 zzo38: very rare 03:28:48 kmc: GHC represents TypeRep keys as md5 hashes of the type name, roughly. 03:28:50 If you do make it deliberately, what is the chance to fit the format and be still a sensible file in general than the other ones? 03:29:06 Can you turn this into a SafeHaskell unsafeCoerce with DeriveTypeable? 03:29:24 You have a pretty limited alphabet. 03:31:42 probably not 03:31:51 how long are they? 03:32:06 well that's a silly question 03:32:09 how long can type names be? 03:32:11 pretty long i guess 03:33:45 zzo38: very good, for any A you can find X,Y such that md5(AX) = md5(AY) 03:34:26 that's concatenation? 03:34:41 which also means that md5(AXB) = md5(AYB) for any B, because MD5 uses the Merkle–Damgård construction 03:34:44 Bike: yes 03:34:58 you can find these pretty quickly... i was finding dozens of X,Y pairs per hour on my workstation 03:35:08 It doesn't *quite* mean that for any B, does it? 03:35:28 sorry, all of these letters are multiples of an MD5 input block size 03:35:43 Ah. Maybe it works out then. 03:35:58 What it hashes it unwords [pkg, module, name] encoded in UCS-4, it looks like. 03:37:15 anyway if your strings are programs, it's usually easy to construct things such that AXB does one arbitrary thing and AYB does a different arbitrary thing, even though you don't have much control over X,Y 03:37:29 you just make that entire block one operand of a conditional or something 03:37:58 so you can (for example) construct two Postscript documents which display completely differently, however you like, and have the same MD5 hash 03:44:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:44:30 shachaf: does every Linux syscall have at least one argument? 03:45:11 getuid doesn't. 03:45:19 help I'm addicted to Naruto 03:45:47 Sgeo: Have you considered watching good anime instead? 03:45:57 I mean, you're well below Dragonball here. 03:46:02 pikhq: ah yes 03:46:04 kmc: Not getpid() 03:46:04 thank 03:46:10 Ah, pikhq said it first. 03:46:21 I used getpid to benchmark syscalls the other day. 03:46:24 -!- Bike has joined. 03:46:33 :/ how is Naruto bad? 03:46:33 glibc caches it, of course. 03:46:44 Well, it was getuid() instead, but eh. Existence proofs don't care about which example you use. :) 03:47:27 I mean, it's not PMMM. I think. But that doesn't mean it's bad 03:47:42 Sgeo: In short, it's bland shōnen. 03:48:01 I don't know what shōnen is. 03:48:26 If I'm not used to it, what's wrong with it being my canonical example? 03:49:00 Is Seinfeld unfunny? 03:49:18 You are saying something that's roughly equivalent to saying "I'm addicted to Two and a Half Men". 03:49:41 isn't that more of a medical condition than a taste thing 03:49:51 i watched a lot of that show but i'm not proud of it :( 03:50:28 Seinfeld on the other hand is brilliant and is much better than most of its imitators 03:50:43 i gave up on tv 03:50:46 OK, it's just md5sum (encodeUCS4 (unwords [package, module, name])) 03:50:50 shonen is pretty much anything intended primarily for a ~8-18 year old male audience, though it is often designed with much wider appeal 03:50:51 it's shockingly misanthropic for a network show 03:50:58 seinfeld's original "airline food" routine is actually funny, it's awesome 03:51:07 like One Piece is technically shonen but it's popular among allthedemographics 03:51:18 So this ends up being making two type names which hash to the same thing, with a common prefix, under UCS-4 encoding. 03:51:46 Well, I definitely see how it appeals to 8-18 year old men, although it's my gf who's getting me into it 03:52:14 the most stereotypical shonen is a coming-of-age story about a boy who wants to be the very best, like no one ever was 03:52:35 and wants to catch them all? :D 03:52:50 to catch them is my reeaaal quest, to traiiin them iiiiis my cauuuuuuuse~ 03:52:57 I've never watched Pokemon 03:52:57 ♫ POOOOO - KÉÉÉÉÉ - MONNNNN ♫ stuck in my head for the next 24h 03:53:03 XD 03:53:04 thanks Fiora 03:53:07 ...and this is where pikhq slaps me 03:53:07 Sgeo: Incidently, what anime *have* you seen? 03:53:08 ITS A GOOD SONG OKAY 03:53:24 i don't know about that 03:53:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXZ2bTigdGY watch more mature chinese cartoons 03:53:27 so Naruto, Bleach, and so on would be like that as well 03:53:29 Sgeo: Hey, don't worry. The Pokemon anime was actually very bad. 03:53:32 fiora: it is 03:53:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfX0tIaExmM yay I'm 10 years old again 03:54:24 pikhq, Death Note, Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Elfen Lied, Neon Genesis Evagelion (sp?), I forget but I think I've seen more than that 03:54:25 not as good as ducktales woohoo but still pretty hot yes 03:54:47 the pokémon theme is very similar to eye of the tiger and not as good 03:54:53 woah, it has more verses? 03:55:02 I've not seen Evangelion, but Death Note and Mahou Shojo Madoka Magica were very good, and Elfen Lied was pretty alright. 03:55:04 "holy shit this has chords... I thought they went out of style 10 years ago" 03:55:05 They usually cut down these things for TV OPs and stuff 03:55:28 pikhq, I knew someone who despised Death Note 03:55:30 kmc: similar to eye of the tiger? not convinced 03:55:32 Lack of character development. 03:55:40 Strange, Death Note is pretty universally beloved. 03:55:56 The worst that could be said of it is it could be better. 03:56:04 the most negative I've seen about Death Note is that the final arc was a bit terrible because the publishers wanted him to drag out the series 03:56:12 but gosh even so it was still good 03:56:13 I also pretend the final arc didn't happen. :P 03:56:24 XD 03:56:26 I like this idea 03:56:42 pikhq, well, when I said on Facebook that I was watching Death Note, this person tried to spoil me (didn't work since I already read spoilers) 03:57:06 And said "There, saved you hours" 03:57:25 Back to Naruto 03:57:26 kmc: eye of the tiger doesn't have any vocal harmonization 03:57:35 I'm going to arbitrarily recommend Darker than Black: Kuro no Keiyakusha, as well as Baccano!. And also Fullmetal Alchemist, because seriously, you have to. It's a law or something. :P 03:57:58 Oh that reminds me, I've seen Durarara 03:58:06 FMA isn't the best thing ever or anything, but it's kinda mandatory viewing. 03:58:13 I think my favorite series are probably um... Ghost in the Shell SAC, Madoka Magica, and Shugo Chara 03:58:17 watch out it's the anime police 03:58:27 Not seen Shugo Chara. 03:58:29 which is kind of a jumble of very different things 03:58:36 what are anime police 03:58:39 hands up????? have you seen everything on the list 03:58:40 I think right now my absolute favorite still has to be Mushishi. 03:58:41 are they pigs? 03:58:46 hard sci-fi, dark magical girls, and pure shoujo 03:58:54 it's just dude singing + cool rhythm guitar + boring bass + drums + piano + guitar riff + tambourines 03:59:01 (eye of the tiger) 03:59:11 pokémon theme is definitely more complex 03:59:20 do i need to break out the molotovs to fight the anime-prison-industrial system 03:59:54 they'll culturally enrich you till you burst 04:00:07 it has many more layers and instrumentation changes 04:00:13 pokémon theme has three vocal parts; the lead, a tenor accompaniement in falsetto, and a chorus on the refrain 04:00:15 D: 04:00:27 `addquote the pokémon theme is very similar to eye of the tiger and not as good 04:00:30 937) the pokémon theme is very similar to eye of the tiger and not as good 04:00:50 coppro: but the chorus is actually multiple parts 04:01:08 madbr: I don't believe it is 04:01:20 hard to tell on the fly but this has like major chords and stuff 04:01:26 so it has to be at least 3 parts 04:01:31 Technically, Homestuck is partly coming-of-age stories, I guess 04:01:43 kmc: have you seen the ron paul version of the pokemon theme (made by the singer of the original) 04:01:48 kmc: it's um 04:01:52 kmc: exactly what it sounds like 04:01:52 it's amazing. 04:01:57 ...then again, (forall g in genras: Homestuck is partly g) 04:02:04 the lyrics don't even make any sense in the context of ron paul 04:02:10 madbr: lafsjdlfskjadlf now I'm listening to it again 04:02:10 Yeah, homestuck's pretty shonen. 04:02:23 i wanna be, the very best, like no-one ever taxed 04:02:26 nah that sucks 04:02:30 Sgeo: Also, nice thing with most anime that's not long-running shonen? It's short. 04:02:35 Most anime is a single season. 04:02:37 elliott: what 04:02:44 kmc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVjfa0Alz5o 04:02:58 kmc: i swear to god this is a version of the pokemon theme with the lyrics slightly changed to relate to ron paul instead of pokemon mostly 04:03:04 by the same person who sang the original 04:03:05 'The Pokemon theme is a perfect song for the Ron Paul Revolution, as he racks up the delegates' 04:03:09 witness oblivion 04:03:15 what the fuck 04:03:16 pikhq, Homestuck isn't short either 04:03:20 even a lot of stuff that's longer-running has to get renewed each season, and gets a new arc or something 04:03:26 I think the guitar is at least 2 parts in pokémon too 04:03:26 gonna train them delegates 04:03:38 like, one panned center, one panned to the right 04:03:41 i love how literally the only thing they changed about the chorus was s/pokemon/ron paul/ 04:03:44 madbr: nah, the chorus only sings "pokemon", "gotta catch em all", and "ooooooo" 04:03:45 i forgot how amazing this is 04:03:49 Fiora, I do admit I prefer over-arching... arcs 04:03:55 Or at least, I think I'd prefer them 04:04:01 I should finish DS9 at some point 04:04:11 coppro: on at least 3 different notes 04:04:20 that's at least 3 different singers 04:04:24 i guess it's nice that the singer can still sing in the same register and all 04:04:25 madbr: hmm... the oooos maybe 04:04:35 wow 3000 people in houston 04:04:55 the chorus also sings "in a world we must defend" 04:05:03 I guess a good example would be Sailor Moon, Sailor Moon R, Sailor Moon S, Sailor Moon Super S, Sailor Stars... 04:05:20 there's at least 3 layers of keyboards 04:05:21 madbr: yeah, good catch 04:05:35 whereas naruto is like. neverending. ever 04:05:46 the chorus is at least three singers, but it's not clear enough to make out chords 04:05:53 (piano, strings, brassy synth pads?!?, arpeggio plucks) 04:05:55 ron paul :psyduck: 04:06:06 why is the first time i've seen music people in this channel for the pokemon theme. 04:06:06 Fiora, my gf says things like she thinks it might be ending soon 04:06:16 well, the first 'season' ended after 04:06:16 220 04:06:27 but it's true, they do end! bleach ended after 366 04:06:40 She may be partly referring to the manga, I think she consumes both 04:06:40 Bike: That's because you've not been around at other times music came up. 04:06:42 bike: because someone said it was like a worse version of eye of the tiger :3 04:06:47 pikhq: yes :( 04:06:54 (using "consume" as a general word for reading and watching) 04:06:57 Gregor composes. 04:07:16 we don't talk about theatre enough here 04:07:19 well done cartoon themes are usually very, very good songs 04:07:20 we should talk about theatre more 04:07:24 yeah, they are 04:07:26 nice. all i do is listen to techno and dream 04:07:27 and when you take it appart it shows 04:07:36 madbr, how about the Stargate Infinity theme? 04:07:37 :D 04:07:38 they look simple but they aren't 04:08:09 sgeo : listening 04:08:10 (Note: My statement should not be construed as endorsing the Stargate Infinity theme as "good") 04:08:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIVgSuuUTwQ I still like how ghost in the shell's theme was in russian 04:08:25 my favourite songs to sing are definitely Broadway songs though 04:08:26 well the singer's russian. 04:08:39 still! 04:08:56 sgeo : the rip I have on youtube isn't too good 04:09:03 still love that radiohead did an anime theme song once 04:09:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-PkAQcuZOw oh now Lain's is stuck in my head 04:09:19 I should watch Ghost In The Shell. I think? 04:09:19 sgeo: it's not too bad but it's no ear worm 04:09:33 Sgeo: Yeah, Ghost in the Shell: SAC is good. 04:09:39 Sgeo: SAC is amazing 04:09:40 Sgeo: it's pretty cool 04:09:41 ": SAC"? 04:09:43 Speaking of, I need to finish 2nd Gig. 04:09:45 Stand Alone Complex, the TV series 04:09:55 (and a sequel film) 04:10:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnkD0vAMSJ0 boa's a pretty cool band. 04:10:14 it's just... it's really a wonderful series 04:10:26 I don't know why this song is on a Lain EP, but whatever. 04:10:31 (I spent the winter break on an anime binge with my girlfriend, that's one that didn't quite finish.) 04:11:00 I could fangirl endlessly about SAC but I don't want to be rambly 04:11:10 Back to watching Naruto 04:11:19 I'll just say it's cyberpunk done well and leave it at that. 04:11:32 imo make a `list but instead of for some lame webcomic it's when sgeo watches naruto 04:11:37 what the world really wants to know 04:11:49 and music discussion is already over 04:11:57 sorry 04:12:19 * pikhq likes Sakanaction 04:14:43 that's the best thing about western music... the harmony and layering 04:15:02 i was pretty disappointed when i found out how western polyphony apparently is 04:15:22 wanted to find some carnatic dubstep or w/e 04:15:59 it's not totally exclusive to europe, but that's definitely where it's the most developed yeah 04:16:21 probably to compensate for being so weak rhythm wise :D 04:16:27 haha, yeah. 04:16:49 but yeah africans have some polyphony too I think 04:17:11 i remember hearing that the european orchestral tradition is basically taken from the andalus, and i've found a bit of andalusian music i liked 04:17:16 and the asian Sho/Sheng is usually played in chords I think 04:18:36 i haven't tried much traditional chinese music, honestly, and only a bit of japanese because my guitarist friend is such a japanophile 04:19:27 pfff, solsty 04:19:58 I think georgian music also has polyphony 04:20:08 but that's probably because it's close enough to europe 04:20:17 we went to a place in portland once that had a shamisen player, that was pretty boss 04:20:26 thing has like forty strings, man. 04:20:35 (but, monophonic) 04:20:59 oh apparently "shamisen" means "three strings", wow i'm bad at this. 04:21:15 one my chinese teacher brought a zhang... not all that hard to play actually 04:21:41 but you can either play outside of the pentatonic scale, or play polyphonically 04:21:48 but not both at the same time 04:21:53 -!- augur has joined. 04:21:53 that's bizarre. 04:21:56 Bike: To be fair, that's hard to know. 04:22:12 "Shamisen" is a very very strange reading. 04:22:15 pikhq: well, i could have paid more attention to the performer... 04:22:28 this was an event in a museum, they were passing out recordings and info on it. 04:22:32 三味線 would normally be read something like "sanmisen". 04:23:06 the double bass is the best instrument 04:23:21 (it isn't, but it's pretty sweet all the same) 04:23:31 I don't suppose anyone knows of a Japanese musical instrument with more than three strings, which is played in a sitting position on the ground (not like a guitar) 04:23:44 bike: you mean a koto? 04:24:09 yes, that was it! 04:24:22 So, uh. That was cool, even if I have the attention span of a fly. 04:24:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6ALjvjmjHg 04:24:37 yeah actually the zheng was a lot like that 04:25:04 It was part of an exhibition of woodcuts, they had the whole "traditional" theme going. 04:25:34 though i don't think they went as far as having the performer wear a kimono. 04:25:57 yeah european music had instruments like that... they're mostly dead, killed by the piano 04:26:08 harp too obvious? 04:26:31 harp is different enough I think 04:26:49 how so? lots of strings, right? 04:27:03 yeah but the sound is very different 04:27:33 because it's on air instead of a board, right 04:27:43 because the strings are plucked 04:27:52 and not tripled 04:28:45 Tripled? 04:28:49 glissandos are also a lot easier on harps 04:29:02 yeah, on a piano, each note has 3 strings 04:29:12 Bike: In a piano, strings are set two or three to a note 04:30:23 I meant harps as a thing that is like a koto and mostly dead because of pianos. 04:31:05 kmc: that mari0 looks cool 04:31:38 Oh, maybe copumpkin is an expert in MD5 collisions. 04:32:23 nope ) 04:32:32 Uh oh. Did copumpkin become Russian? 04:32:50 no, someone just poked my eyes out ( 04:32:55 bike: but not as dead as harpsichords 04:33:03 copumpkin: Oh no! :·( 04:33:07 RIP harpsichords :( 04:33:09 harps are not dead 04:33:18 i thought they were keyed like pianos though 04:33:18 harps are tonally quite different from the piano 04:33:22 what 04:33:29 harps or harpsichords? 04:33:31 and less dead than psalterions and clavicords 04:33:33 harpsichords. 04:33:37 coppro: Sure, but no one plays harpsy chords anymore. 04:33:40 oh yeah, they were 04:33:42 *are 04:33:44 god, i know shit about music 04:33:47 celestes aren't quite dead 04:33:56 Bike: I know less than you, so ha! 04:34:06 Except I know that "octave" means "bit". 04:34:10 i know a guy in another channel who did historical harpsichord playing for a while, pretty cool to listen to him 04:34:17 it's like electric bass vs acoustic bass vs tuba fighting for the bass 04:34:45 vs potentially cello and bassoon too if you want to be inclusive 04:34:52 and electric bass is winning 04:34:59 and tuba is going out of style 04:35:10 i love harpsichords 04:35:12 they are so easy 04:37:05 madbr: acoustic bass guitar or upright bass? 04:37:28 I was thinking of upright 04:38:04 electric bass really isn't comparable, since in modern music there is a huge distinction between acoustic and electric instruments 04:38:27 the tuba is going out of style because of its lack of versatility---precisely what killed many other keyboard instruments 04:39:00 coppro: lack of versatility? 04:40:04 russians use parentheses? 04:40:07 it's slow 04:40:17 it's slow compared to the electric bass 04:40:26 sure, but electric instruments don't count 04:40:33 except it's AFAIK still faster than the trombone 04:41:18 I meant for rapid notes. You're moving a shitton of air through a tuba 04:41:30 yeah but it does have valves 04:41:33 instead of a slide 04:41:35 yeah, so it can pitch quicker 04:41:55 also a tuba playing at maximum volume is quite a thing 04:42:02 *that* is something it is good at 04:42:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-NVMsj6lXA 04:43:04 bass trombone is louder actually 04:43:24 coppro: still not as loud as electric bass tho 04:43:26 :D 04:43:31 madbr: sure, if you crank the volume 04:43:39 it cuts more tho 04:43:40 but if you hook a tuba up to a sound system you can make it as loud as you want too 04:43:46 *want to 04:44:04 can i interject to request electric tuba music 04:44:10 i've liked the electric trumpet i've heard 04:45:22 Bike: is it an actual instrument or just synthesized? 04:45:32 actual, you just put pickups in the horn 04:45:32 madbr: yeah flight of the bumblebees is sweet 04:45:36 cool 04:45:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCCRI1Kf6Bk 04:47:40 another case is oboe and bassoon being replaced by saxophonese in pop 04:48:40 Bike: eww 04:48:53 >:/ 04:50:13 not a fan 04:50:29 madbr: yeah, but pop is not all of modern music 04:51:00 (incidentally, the most depressing thing in modern music is people who think mixing drum kits and orchestras is a good idea) 04:54:52 eh 04:55:13 well, I mean oboe and basson being replaced in "everything except classical" 04:55:43 (classical in the broad meaning, yes I know it's not the same thing as baroque or romantic technically) 04:56:58 tbh I'm not opposed to mixing drums and orchestras 04:57:35 it kinda turns the orchestra into a large jazz band but there's tons of good 70s movie music done on that kind of ensemble 04:57:56 my issue is more that drummers don't learn to play quiet 04:58:54 ah yeah :3 04:59:17 that's because they play too much with electric guitarists 04:59:48 which have big heads and their instrument has super large spectrum that buries everybody else 04:59:57 yeah 05:00:18 but the pedaled instruments in drum kits also can't play quietly 05:00:24 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:00:58 you mean the kick drum 05:01:05 yeah 05:01:36 and the hi-hat, but that's less obnoxious 05:01:40 dunno, jazz drummers can do it 05:02:01 the hihat is replaceable by a tambourine or triangle 05:02:16 or a snare played with brushes 05:02:45 sure, but that's all too complicated for a drummer :P 05:02:56 (unlike percussionists, who are the most hilarious group in any orchestra) 05:03:03 he's playing with an orchestra 05:03:24 you don't get joe metal drummer for playing with a zillion violins, you get a good one :D 05:04:07 sadly, that is not my experience 05:04:52 drum kits (and the bad drummers that accomapny them) seem to follow around hollywood conductors 05:05:03 *follow hollywood conductors around 05:05:08 (also fuck those guys, they're too full of themselves) 05:05:13 you can probably add more padding to the kick 05:05:24 or just give him less juice in the mix :o 05:05:35 what "mix" 05:05:37 this is an *orchestra* 05:06:08 no close mics on the drum? :o 05:06:19 I see 05:06:46 they are loud enough without a sound system, thank you 05:07:03 if you take metal drummers, yeah 05:08:02 oh and the drown out the other players in the orchestra so they can't hear what they're doing 05:08:40 you could take away their sticks 05:08:44 and give them brushes 05:09:18 so some brilliant hollywood conductors (and I've seen this multiple times *this year*) get the idea of shoving *all* the strings off to one side, *all* the woodwinds to the other, stuff the brass in the back mostly by the woodwinds because there's more room, and then stick the drums *in the middle* with sound barriers in between so that the strings can hear each other, as can the woodwinds 05:09:27 problem: if you're sat to the side, GOOD LUCK HEARING THE VIOLINS 05:09:34 * coppro rages 05:10:20 :o 05:11:02 because there are two layers of sound barrier and a drum kit in between me and the strings 05:11:25 and no monitors 05:12:11 personally, I'd rather just stick with the percussionists 05:12:18 they're better at producing varied sounds, and funnier 05:13:16 true 05:13:35 though they can't quite get the energy of the kick + snare duo 05:14:33 you can accent with brass for that 05:15:05 brass is awesome but there's just something unique to the kick+snare 05:15:55 imho they're more complementary actually 05:16:16 that's true, I suppose 05:16:41 but no reason you can't give the percussionists a bass drum 05:16:54 if you really want to tie two up to get that effect 05:17:35 isn't orchestral bass drum something totally different? 05:17:43 with like super long decay 05:19:04 they're different, but the score could easily specify "a small bass drum" or something 05:19:14 you can do all sorts of shit with percussion 05:19:38 oh, and as for why percussionists are funny: they have to ensure they get their instruments to the right people at the right time 05:19:43 what if you had one of the percussionists play the drums instead of the rock drummer? :D 05:20:19 I've seen a percussionist reaching over a table to get the triangle another one was frantically passing him like a bar before he came in 05:20:27 he only barely made it 05:20:53 :o 05:20:59 that was funny 05:21:18 tbh drums work better with synths 05:23:03 like, it's very hard to make something like beethoven work on the NES's sound chip 05:23:11 because your tones are so static 05:23:33 you're almost forced to put in deep bass and smashing drums 05:24:57 well sure 05:25:08 but beethoven also requires incredible dynamic range 05:25:23 most speaker sets can't come even close 05:26:20 90db is a shit-ton of dynamic range to expect from a speaker set. :) 05:26:23 like, the one time I did a 5th symphony beethoven cover, I had to use all the "cheat" extra chips just to get more channels and cheating FM synth chip that was used in one japanese NES game 05:26:45 and double up pretty much every note with another detuned channel 05:26:51 otherwise it was just too shrill 05:27:29 coppro: I'm not sure dynamic range is the problem actually 05:27:42 oh yes it is 05:28:09 the cellos/bass should properly be barely audible when they introduce the ode to joy 05:28:18 mhmm 05:28:42 and in the same movement as a enourmous choir singing at full volume. 05:29:02 *enormous 05:29:41 have you ever had the good fortune to attend a performance of the 9th? it's incredible 05:31:08 true 05:31:31 but when dealing with synths, you have to deal with the "static" aspect of the tone 05:31:38 which is an even bigger problem imho 05:32:09 I suppose 05:32:14 don't use small numbers of channels :P 05:32:38 like, if you sequence repeated notes on strings on a synth, it sounds super stupid 05:32:43 because each note is the same 05:33:17 You must mean VRC7 sound for FM synth used in Famicom, it was only one game 05:33:23 zzo: yes 05:33:42 don't good synths deal with that better 05:33:58 I have made a .NES ROM image which uses the VRC7 mapper, but it is only for testing the sounds so that I can figure out the sound 05:34:12 bike: normally the dude that sequences it will vary the volume and timing of the notes 05:34:31 and if he's using a large VST orchestra sound bank it might have round robin samples too 05:35:33 Ok, episode 5 of Naruto had some.... rather predictable moments 05:35:42 Let no one call any of the characters Genre Savvy 05:38:07 I have made some music using CsoundMML now too, so it isn't only NSF. 05:38:32 tbh vrc7 isn't that interesting 05:38:38 it's a cut down opl2 05:38:54 It is a variant of OPLL actually. 05:39:12 it's a variant of opll which is a cut down opl2 :D 05:39:38 I have used VRC6, VRC7, Namco-163, and MMC5, even multiples ones together, I have not used the others 05:40:03 You can make the custom instrument to make a sine wave in VRC7 though if you want an extra sine wave. 05:40:12 opl3 is the sound chip that has the most "potential undiscovered sonic territory" imho 05:40:39 since there's so little music that uses some of the features they put it 05:40:55 the little sound chip that could 05:41:14 zzo: vrc7 can do more interesting things than sine 05:41:37 madbr: Yes, I know, it can do other things, just that a sine wave is the simplest possibility, so it is one thing 05:41:49 Is there the program that will play OPL3 musics? Do you know if XPMCK is compatible with it? 05:42:20 there's an inaccurate winamp plugin I think 05:42:27 for opl2 05:42:42 dosbox's emulation is supposed to be pretty good 05:42:57 kmc: I think it has improved 05:43:05 Can dosbox play OPL3 or only OPL2? 05:43:10 OPL3 i believe 05:43:10 opl3 05:43:36 like, the 2op patches are pretty close 05:43:36 Then I suppose it can be made a DOS program which plays it, would work! 05:43:42 not spot on but not very far 05:44:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hPVwjZ6bNM this person thinks the emulation is not so good 05:44:20 zzo: there's a messed up win9x driver that lets you override the MIDI patches I think 05:44:22 I have requested a feature for a NSF player to read VRC7 instruments from a NSFe chunk, but they didn't want that. 05:44:56 madbr: I could just use DOS it is no problem. I don't want to override the MIDI patches anyways 05:45:44 I use adlib tracker 2 which lets you use pretty much all the features 05:46:36 including manipulating the synth registers at like 800hz :D 05:46:38 I just wondered if XPMCK supports it, but I don't think so. 05:47:24 that kind of tools tend to support japanese stuff 05:47:32 since occidentals use trackers 05:48:42 Do you know if there is a Csound file to emulate OPL3? 05:49:04 no idea 05:49:11 I have the real thing so no need to 05:49:28 (There are a few different programs to compose music for Csound, or you can just enter the events directly. I myself use CsoundMML (which I wrote), although I have written only one music with it so far) 05:50:07 I don't think I have OPL3 hardware in my computer though, so I have to use emulator. But if DOSBox can emulate it then I could use it with DOS. 05:52:55 tbh all that stuff tends to have a not-so-interesting effort-to-result ratio 05:53:05 I think the most popular program to compose music with Csound is called Blue. I have tried it once but find it extremely complicated to use, so I made CsoundMML to work it much better. 05:53:48 Even so with Csound you can make it to do different things with the same score file by using different orchestra files. 05:55:09 And, I have made a plugin in Csound to load S3M sample packs and Famicom DPCM samples. 05:55:14 if it shortens the feedback loop time (the time before you hear what you're making) then it's totally worth it 05:55:38 zzo: can't you already load, like, SF2? 05:56:18 madbr: Yes, Csound can already load SF2, but now I added the command to load S3M as well. 05:56:37 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:57:16 ADPCM packing is not supported but I don't know how that works so I did not program that in. 05:58:51 you should look up the .WAV format specs, it supports 1 or 2 varieties of ADPCM 05:59:55 I have also implemented the Csound plugin for PADsynth, which works by adding up some bell curves to make the amplitude table, putting random values in the phase table, and then inverse Fourier transform. It is as simple as that. 06:00:47 eh 06:01:01 you can get the same result by stacking a bunch of saws 06:01:52 or passing noise through 2 or 3 slightly detuned comb filters 06:18:48 zzo: has any interesting physical modeling come out of csound? 06:24:35 It's kindof the field I like tracking in synthesis and I haven't seen much interesting stuff in the field lately 06:34:04 apparently crossdressing is part of the mating strategy for some cuttlefish 06:34:24 lots of fish do it, don't they? 06:34:25 the smaller males will disguise themselves as females and use this to get close to an actual female 06:34:50 then when the big aggressive males get distracted with fighting each other, the crossdressing male gets to mate 06:35:31 I think whoever does Scandinavia and the World did some comics about mating strategies like that... either in fish or in birds, I don't remember. 06:35:33 I love that nice little chart of a bunch of animals that use extremely non-heteronormative mating techniques, change genders, and other sorts of cool things 06:36:05 oh! there it is 06:36:09 http://humon.deviantart.com/#/d4vlen4 06:36:32 yeah, that. 06:36:44 I love her art 06:36:51 i love monoids 06:37:04 I love, um. Tales games? 06:37:17 Oh, yep, there's cuttlefish. 06:37:19 Like _Tales of Monkey Island_? 06:37:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_(series) 06:37:45 cuttlefish are kind of wonderful 06:37:46 I know. 06:37:48 http://humon.deviantart.com/art/Sneaky-Cuttlefish-293754048 flasher cuttlefish 06:38:09 Bike: I bet you're an expert in MD5 collisions? 06:38:24 It looks like the thing I want is tricky. 06:38:30 I did my triple doctoral thesisin md5 collisions! 06:38:39 Great! 06:38:52 I'm an expert on claiming to be an expert about how to claim to be an expert. 06:38:56 Can I make one with a UCS-4 encoded string? 06:39:12 In particular it has to be made up of alphanumeric Unicode codepoints, in fact. :-( 06:39:40 that seems pretty severe 06:39:45 I forgot about that part. 06:39:45 you have to tell me what amazing Safe Haskell environment you're breaking into, first. 06:39:46 although perhaps most assigned codepoints are alphanumeric 06:40:06 There are only 21 bits of "valid" codepoints, though. 06:40:21 > last ['\0'..] 06:40:23 '\1114111' 06:40:31 > generalCategory '\1000000' 06:40:32 PrivateUse 06:40:43 I bet GHC doesn't like PrivateUse in identifiers. 06:40:58 what you use private use characters for is your own business! 06:41:13 > generalCategory '\800000' 06:41:15 NotAssigned 06:42:04 It's not even full 21 bits, it's more like... 06:42:05 > logBase 2 (17*65536) 06:42:07 20.087462841250343 06:42:11 That many bits. 06:42:13 Right. 06:42:14 Out of 32. 06:42:22 So every fourth byte will be 0 straight off. 06:45:32 pikhq, 06:45:47 TV Tropes claims that the Naruto anime has 85 consecutive filler episodes 06:45:52 And I thought Endless Eight was bad 06:46:10 (Although I guess filler isn't generally as bad as repeat episodes) 06:46:28 (Also, I never actually watched more than ... 3 or 4 episodes of Endless Eight) 06:46:48 Which reminds me, I left Suzumiya Haruhi off the list of anime I've watched 06:48:56 I watched Endless Eight at 4x speed. 06:49:04 When you do this it's actually tolerable. 06:49:35 that's the thing where they did the same episode eight times? 06:51:03 yes 06:52:02 people actually watched that? 06:52:03 Review I just saw of Naruto said that the plot was cliche and it's just the characters that make it interesting 06:52:03 :/ 06:52:10 I prefer plot over characters 06:52:32 Bike, when it first came out, people never knew if the next episode would be the one to break the cycle, I think 06:53:27 Sgeo: Well, the episodes were called "Endless Eight" so after the first two or three I think it was rather obvious 06:54:23 Deewiant: In the light novel it was a somewhat short chapter. 06:55:10 pikhq: My point stands 06:55:15 One of them, I think the fourth, had a strong airplane motif 06:55:23 That ended up being irrelevant 06:55:36 But yeah, on 4x it was entertaining. 06:55:44 Silly voices had a lot to do with it, mind. 06:55:52 Also, on 4x it was 2 episodes' worth. 06:56:12 I remember seeing a post that was made while it was still going on, suggesting to suggest to future viewers to just watch first two than "hint" (which turned out to be red herring) then last 06:56:26 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:06:06 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 07:08:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:24:12 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:37:24 `list 07:37:26 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 07:54:24 Endless Eight is really only the same episode repeated 7 times, plus the episode at the beginning 07:55:32 oh, well, that's alright then 07:56:58 I should probably order pizza tomorrow 07:57:04 Haven't been eating enough protein lately 07:59:17 http://chainsawsuit.com/comics/20120906.png 08:00:54 That sounds delicious. Especially because there's no actual pepperoni 08:02:07 I suppose you think the cantor set doesn't contain any actual points, either!! 08:03:23 http://www.theonion.com/articles/pizza-huts-new-pizza-lovers-pizza-topped-with-smal,9891/ 08:04:05 kmc: why is the onion so wonderufl 08:07:17 http://www.theonion.com/articles/existentialist-firefighter-delays-3-deaths,17500/ 08:11:19 Hmm, I hadn't seen http://www.theonion.com/articles/white-house-jester-beheaded-for-making-fun-of-soar,17495/ 08:12:02 Obama, a wit in his own right, warned that any guest who further tested his patience would 'be heading' for trouble. 08:15:11 Sssss, two more HTML-only emails today. They're getting more and more common. :/ 08:40:54 -!- Strigoides has left ("Leaving"). 09:05:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:07:59 -!- ogrom has joined. 09:08:57 madbr: Csound does have many commands for physical modeling; look at the documentation. 09:11:42 fizzie: Auto-reply to them. 09:18:15 https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/shibboleth-users/EjvS2Cgio6c 09:19:18 wow, google translate was pretty bad in 2010 09:19:28 -!- Deewiant has set topic: FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE | concealed in fold of goat-time lumber | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 09:20:14 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: bored). 09:37:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:41:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:41:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:45:26 I have the idea of stereo Famicom register, using the unused $4009 register to control the stereo. 09:46:12 bit7 = output internal square waves to left channel. bit6 = output internal triangle/noise/DPCM to left channel. bit5 = output internal square waves to right channel. bit4 = output internal triangle/noise/DPCM to right channel. bit3 = output internal square waves to cartridge. bit2 = output internal triangle/noise/DPCM to cartridge. bit1 = output cartridge audio to left channel. bit0 = output cartridge audio to right channel. 09:50:40 I don't think the NSF specifications prohibit writing to $4009, so you could make stereo NSF which still plays in mono as well. 09:55:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:01:32 -!- saijanai_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:07:16 -!- saijanai_ has joined. 10:35:02 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:07:06 -!- frecz11642 has joined. 11:07:14 Hi 11:07:35 Something strange happened with me 2 times in the near past 11:08:03 i would like to ask you guys how it is possible 11:08:07 did it involve cookies ? 11:08:13 `welcome frecz11642 11:08:17 the thing is that i dreamed pictures of my near future 11:08:18 frecz11642: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 11:08:28 i checked every possibility and i had to realize that i really dreamed my future 11:08:54 `run welcome frecz11642 | sed s/dal/dahl/ 11:08:56 frecz11642: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dahl.net.) 11:09:45 the future must have been involved with cookies! 11:09:56 have you ever dreamed of your future? 11:10:26 sorry for my english as i'm not a native speaker or writer in this case 11:12:48 shachaf: The word "incorrigible" comes to mind, somehow. 11:13:05 fizzie: I hope oerjan doesn't kick me again. 11:13:12 I didn't make any permanent changes. 11:15:08 frecz11642: If your dream concerned something relatively expected, I doubt that that's unusual. Otherwise, if that future already happened to you and you realized afterwards, it was probably déjà vu with some confirmation bias. If it was about something unexpected that hasn't happened yet, you're probably simply wrong. In any case, this isn't an appropriate channel (or network) for such discussions: you 11:15:10 may want to visit #esoteric on irc.dal.net instead. 11:15:31 fizzie: Oh, wait. 11:15:39 This person actually wanted irc.dal.net, didn't they. :-( 11:16:25 Sorry, frecz11642. 11:16:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:17:51 Deewiant: You're such a regular quadrilateral. 11:18:15 fizzie: I'm a diamond in the rough. 11:29:43 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:45:42 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:55:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:03:59 `run welcome | sed s/dal/dali/ 12:04:01 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dali.net.) 12:11:35 `run welcome | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])\b/$1h$2/g' 12:11:36 Welcome to the internationahl huhb fohr esoterihc programming language design and deployment! Fohr more informatiohn, check ouht ouhr wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Fohr the othehr kind of esoterica, try #esoterihc ohn irc.dahl.neht.) 12:12:35 `cat bin/? 12:12:37 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic" 12:12:56 -!- Bacta has joined. 12:13:03 Is Brainfuck enterprise ready? 12:13:29 only with the PSOX framework hth 12:13:36 `run >wisdom/'?h' echo '? "$@" | perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])\b/$1h$2/g'\''' 12:13:39 No output. 12:13:42 `run chmod +x wisdom/\?h 12:13:45 No output. 12:13:46 `?h welcome 12:13:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?h: not found 12:13:52 Oops. 12:13:55 `welcome Bacta 12:13:57 Bacta: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:14:02 `run mv wisdom/\?h bin/ 12:14:05 No output. 12:14:06 `?h welcome 12:14:08 Welcome to the internationahl huhb fohr esoterihc programming language design and deployment! Fohr more informatiohn, check ouht ouhr wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Fohr the othehr kind of esoterica, try #esoterihc ohn irc.dahl.neht.) 12:14:18 `?h finland 12:14:20 Finland ihs a Europeahn country. There are two people ihn Finland, and aht least nine of thehm are ihn thihs channehl. Coruhn drivehs the buhs. 12:14:53 `run welcome | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/g' 12:14:55 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd of ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 12:15:14 `run >bin/'?hh' echo '? "$@" | perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/g'\''' 12:15:17 No output. 12:15:19 `run chmod +x bin/\?hh 12:15:22 No output. 12:15:23 `cat bin/?h 12:15:24 ​? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])\b/$1h$2/g' 12:15:27 `?hh hexham 12:15:29 Hehxhahm ihs a Euhrohpeahn town. Thehre ahre nihne peohple ihn Hehxhahm, ahnd aht leahst two of thehm ahre ihn thihs chahnnehl. Tahnehb loohks aftehr the hahm. 12:15:32 oerjan: Oops 12:15:37 I should've escaped that, shouldn't I. 12:15:45 And maybe added #! 12:15:45 ...wat? 12:15:46 Whatever. 12:16:09 oerjan: Wait, this isn't sabotage, is it? 12:16:12 It's a whole separate command! 12:16:33 `?? monqy 12:16:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ??: not found 12:16:38 `?hh monqy 12:16:40 The friehndshihp mohnqy ihs ahn ahnciehnt Chihnehse myhstehry; ahsk ihtihduhs21 fohr dehtaihls. 12:16:46 `?? zzo38 12:16:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ??: not found 12:16:51 `?hh elliott 12:16:53 ehlliohtt wrohte thihs leahrn DB, ahnd wrohte ohr ihmprohvehd mahny of the ohthehr cohmmahnds ihn thihs boht. He prohbahbly hahs dohne ohthehr thihngs? 12:16:53 `?hh zzo38 12:16:54 zzo38 ihs noht ahctuahlly the nehxt vehrsiohn of fuhngoht, muhch ahs iht may seehm. 12:16:58 imo big improvement 12:17:55 `run >bin/'?hhh' echo '? "$@" | perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz]+)/$1h$2/g'\'''; chmod +x bin/\?hhh 12:17:59 No output. 12:18:03 `?hhh welcome 12:18:04 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd of ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 12:18:22 ?hhhhh will just be s/./h/g, right? 12:18:22 Unknown command, try @list 12:18:33 `?hhh fizzie 12:18:34 fihzzie ihs ruhmouhrehd to be wrihttehn ihn Fuhnge-98. 12:18:39 `?hhh fungot 12:18:40 shachaf: and most esolangs aren't that big. and i have a problem with going back in the whitespace if you want 12:18:41 fuhngoht cahnnoht be stohppehd by thaht swohrd ahlohne. 12:18:54 fungot: Is anything capable of stohppehing you? 12:18:55 fizzie: would that be exactly? some kind of extreme masochist who loves being shot 30 metres away :( 12:19:24 fungot: Wow, that's pretty ehxtrehme. 12:19:25 shachaf: that the simplest possible field is k 0, but 1, 2 12:19:26 shachaf: i think it is a mistake to bake the ? part in, that way you cannot use it to create a proper wehlcohme command 12:19:37 oerjan: True. Feel free to generalize it. 12:19:58 I'm going home. 12:19:59 `?hhh home 12:20:01 hohme? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:20:05 `?hhh bach 12:20:07 bahch? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:20:09 `?hhh italian 12:20:10 ihtahliahn? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:20:14 `?hhh guitar 12:20:16 guihtahr? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:20:18 `?hhh charcoal 12:20:20 chahrcoahl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:20:21 `?hhh telemarketer 12:20:23 tehlehmahrkehtehr? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:20:46 This leahrn DB could use a bunch more entries. 12:20:52 `?hhh papaya 12:20:53 pahpaya? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:21:04 `?hhh nonsense 12:21:06 nohnsehnse? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:21:07 `?hhh haskell 12:21:09 Unbouhnd ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr (?hahskehll::Wihsdohm) \ ahrihsihng frohm a uhse of ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr `?hahskehll' 12:21:18 `?hhh hi 12:21:20 hi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:21:25 `?hhh hi monqy 12:21:27 hi mohnqy? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:21:35 `?hhh monoid 12:21:36 `?hhh monoids 12:21:37 Mohnoihds ahre juhst cahtehgohriehs wihth a sihngle ohbjehct. 12:21:37 Mohnoihds ahre the eahsy vehrsiohn of cahtehgohriehs. 12:21:40 OK, enough spam. 12:22:31 shachaf: i'm a bit confused, aren't ?hh and ?hhh equivalent? 12:30:42 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 12:31:32 `?hhh dahl 12:31:34 dahl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:31:39 `? dahl 12:31:41 dahl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:35:20 -!- Bacta has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:45:09 oerjan: Are they? 12:45:27 Actually hh is superior to hhh. 12:45:45 `?hh monoid 12:45:46 `?hhh monoid 12:45:46 Mohnoihds ahre juhst cahtehgohriehs wihth a sihngle ohbjehct. 12:45:47 Mohnoihds ahre juhst cahtehgohriehs wihth a sihngle ohbjehct. 12:45:58 Oh, no, you're right. 12:46:01 I just make no sense. 12:46:21 *MWAHAHAHA*ÆÅØ 12:46:29 oerjan: I wanted to make two improvements to `?h -- the hh one and the hhh one. 12:46:39 But the hh one subsubes the hhh one. 12:46:45 s/b/m/ 12:46:56 `rm bin/?hhh 12:46:58 No output. 12:47:15 `?hh Fiora 12:47:16 Fiohra ihs frohm sohme ihslahnd sohmewhehre. She juhst doehsn't wahnt to be bohthehrehd, ahs she wohrks ouht hehr dohmihnahtiohn plahn ahs ihmmohrtahl queehn of the drahgohns. 12:47:36 Fiora: Which that-comic character is *that*? 12:47:36 `?hh wisdom/hh 12:47:38 wihsdohm/hh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:47:45 `?hh Jafet 12:47:46 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 12:47:46 Jafeht? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:48:07 wait, why didn't that give two hs 12:48:26 Oh, it's not /i 12:48:53 `run sed -i s,/g,/ig, bin/\?{h,hh} 12:48:54 I and I would appreciate that 12:48:56 No output. 12:48:58 f is not in the list of consonants there. 12:49:01 `?hh Jafet 12:49:03 Jafeht? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:49:06 Oh. 12:49:14 `?hh bin/hh 12:49:16 bihn/hh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:49:19 (For some reason or another. I just made it up.) 12:49:22 `run bin/hh bin/hh 12:49:23 bash: bin/hh: No such file or directory 12:49:37 `run bin/\?hh bin/\?hh 12:49:39 bihn/?hh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:49:43 fizzie: My ig change is still an improvement, isn't it? 12:49:48 * shachaf can't think very well at this hour. 12:49:52 `learn Jafet is a boojum 12:49:56 I knew that. 12:50:00 `cat bin/?hh 12:50:02 ​? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdgklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' 12:50:25 shachaf: I guess, though arguably it should be even cleverer and adapt the majority case, to avoid DAL -> DAhL. 12:50:38 fizzie: True. 12:50:45 We can just say that the h is whispered. 12:50:51 Being unvoiced and all. 12:50:58 Sihlehnt. 12:51:13 Honestly, no 12:51:28 Hhhohnehstlhy 12:51:29 Hmm, should the list of consonants have h? 12:51:48 `run sed -i s/bcdgklmnpqrstvxz/bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz/ bin/\?{h,hh} 12:51:51 No output. 12:51:54 `?hh Jafet 12:51:55 Jahfeht ihs a boohjuhm 12:52:09 `?hh calvin and hobbes 12:52:10 cahlvihn ahnd hohbbehs? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:16 `?hh haskell 12:52:17 Uhnbouhnd ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr (?hahskehll::Wihsdohm) \ ahrihsihng frohm a uhse ohf ihmplihciht pahrahmehtehr `?hahskehll' 12:52:29 `?hh platitude 12:52:31 plahtihtuhde? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:33 `?hh drums 12:52:35 druhms? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:37 `?hh drum 12:52:38 druhm? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:45 `?hh antidote 12:52:46 ahntihdohte? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:48 `?hh flagpole 12:52:50 flahgpohle? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:51 `?hh ramanujan 12:52:53 rahmahnuhjahn? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:55 `?hh hohum 12:52:57 hohhuhm? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:52:59 `?hh claustrophobia 12:53:00 clauhstrohphohbia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:53:02 OK, fine. 12:53:13 This leahrn DB is usehlehss. 12:53:39 Uhsehlehss. 12:53:54 shachaf just arrived at wisdom. 12:54:09 `run echo $(ls wisdom/) 12:54:11 ​`? ? ⌨ ☃ 🐐 ais523 america atriq augur banach-tarski bike boily bonvenon brain brainf**k brainfuck brick burma c cakeprophet california category coffee comonad coppro cyberiad devious d-module egobot ehird elliott endofunctor endomorphism england esoteric europe everyone finland finnish finns fiora fizzie flower footnote 8 freefull friends 12:54:15 `?hh friends 12:54:16 friehnds? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:54:22 `?hh friendship 12:54:24 friehndshihp wihsdohm 12:54:35 `? footnote 8 12:54:36 Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 12:54:53 `?hh footnote 8 12:54:54 `learn Claustrophobia thought the wisdom database was getting too crowded, so left. 12:54:55 Ihsn't iht fuhn reahdihng throuhgh ahll the foohtnohtehs? 12:54:57 I knew that. 12:55:29 `run ls wisdom | wc -l 12:55:30 140 12:55:31 `learn Friends make graphs together / La la la la 12:55:33 Wowza. 12:55:35 I knew that. 12:55:57 `run echo wisdom/* | xargs -n 1 cat 12:56:00 See `? for further details. \ ? is wisdom \ ☃ brrr... \ You are probably using one right now! \ 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) \ Agent "Iä" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. \ This wisdom entry had to be removed due 12:56:20 `run echo >wisdom/flagpole A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top. 12:56:23 No output. 12:58:11 `run echo >wisdom/tadpole A tadpole is like a flagpole, but underwater. 12:58:14 No output. 12:58:16 `run find wisdom/ -type f -print0 | xargs -0 wc -c | sort -nr | head -n 2 12:58:18 10005 total \ 256 wisdom/wercome 12:58:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1339 12:58:38 fizzie: you need to drop ngevd 12:58:46 oerjan: I already did. 12:58:47 * shachaf approves of dropping ngevd. 12:58:51 `?hh ngevd 12:58:51 or is that what the -type f is for 12:58:52 oe{.IoOhPhi˖$0qa|M0ٞۗƖ!pn!(q%y7Ģ>{yg,2F#_J<)ػE2;EhD1E!ohG\S|3ax[L!o(APs%MEsgBA8UhTQL.DQk' \ |@Ȑ3GQu*eےf87ZTOp$apD(>S7E[!;t#(6 \ J.hͼܻ1x70ffX\zԧ:n~>Hu$ 12:58:55 oerjan: Yes. 12:58:56 Oh. 12:58:59 That's not what you meant by drop. 12:59:01 whoa, dude 12:59:23 oerjan: Anyway, you just broke the ten-(SI-)kilobyte mark with your tadpole. 12:59:28 yay! 12:59:38 colour 12:59:54 I move to delete wisom/ngevd 13:00:03 `rm wisom/ngevd 13:00:05 rm: cannot remove `wisom/ngevd': No such file or directory 13:00:05 DENIED 13:00:11 It is a cunning trap, ngevd is. 13:00:26 `run file wisdom/ngevd 13:00:26 wisdom/ngevd: symbolic link to `/dev/urandom' 13:00:31 I move to delete wisdom/ngevd 13:00:38 DENIED 13:00:40 `rm /dev/urandom 13:00:41 rm: cannot remove `/dev/urandom': Read-only file system 13:01:47 `?hh taneb 13:01:49 `?hh atriq 13:01:49 Tahnehb ihs noht ehlliohtt, no mahttehr who you ahsk. He ahlso ihsn't a rahbbi ahlthouhgh he hahs prehtehndehd ihn the pahst. (see ahlso: d-mohduhlehs) 13:01:50 ahtrihq ohr two 13:01:59 `?? d-modules 13:02:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ??: not found 13:02:00 `run tr -cd '[:isprint:]' /dev/urandom 13:02:01 tr: extra operand `/dev/urandom' \ Only one string may be given when deleting without squeezing repeats. \ Try `tr --help' for more information. 13:02:05 `run tr -cd '[:isprint:]' < /dev/urandom 13:02:07 tr: invalid character class `isprint' 13:02:12 `run tr -cd '[:print:]' < /dev/urandom 13:02:13 yaecHK},>Z'{C-w-Hfg[>"P|~F-C*`znS%Dc{NHp)n6Y^ncwa|$LCiO\96[Sv|1kgHN\]d@_|Y9h;Io_2c|q;Sw#/gE6$e.mx|u:qil5)(!KT1@j>]Q,p/2WPTN$~=Xa/U*z0p=7;'Hs}D36mv$i_5r{tLlI# k|l!sfRQ+_XbscbmpsljXL'5=^kGUbci*04h337g7%v/X1d&!3-kc"a"FX `?hh d-modules 13:02:26 d-mohduhlehs? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:02:32 `?hh d-module 13:02:33 D-mohduhlehs ahre juhst mohduhlehs ohvehr the rihng ohf dihffehrehntiahl ohpehrahtohrs. Tahnehb ihnvehntehd thehm. 13:02:39 `run tr -cd '[:print: ]' < /dev/urandom 13:02:41 trt:]n n ptt ]n t] i r[ p[]]t[n:n][t[rprt nn[n []:nt[ rnp: ]rrrn[r[ rn] t[ ]rit]t]nnr[ntiitn:r[piptrr ]tr][rn i:ni[nptr[pitttn rpi]itt ]npn[: tpirp:in::[:]:t :rnti n]pi ti: t:r pi:n pipntnnr]i]t pr]:i]:]]nni:i[[:nt i:i[ttn [rr ppn:]pppr]:] :]]npip i:[tt nnprptrpttri][in:r n:: [[t:tn[p[ [:i]]n:it][i][]i:t nipp]r :: pn init :[tr:r:in: pt[:t r:p: 13:02:41 `? taneb 13:02:43 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules) 13:02:50 Hm. 13:02:56 `run tr -cd '[:print:] ' < /dev/urandom 13:02:58 b}!$4yxvz_R%(pe>ghW-/OO%tVGh"PDO8u*X5])QX8?"8{.-#a%wnSw2PeFmg3{m,2@C[KyT} rim_}j62z}M~ODz!wbSJgI(4+@fCN7evV=/r7po%n,><>: XN&[`sa)>^es}A5\?5-JC!ewx@[%j!z{'c"B@DbO*h1_Lqm1EHu>[[D>L0&)nUR31s5vZu\;uZk,F8l!tQ*Zc3.3!gEg(!;!Yj}Z>rfz_nfFo86]cv|8a^Ut7tsd0to*+ajA: I}r#*rM!.L/=rhh~E)YBJj52?,=3pxm1n':}t1"^u%/KW`L51FvjOb: 13:02:58 `run ln wisdom/d-module{,s} 13:03:01 No output. 13:03:20 `learn Atrix is a brand of hand cream. Not to be confused with atriq. 13:03:21 Jafet: The '[:print: ]' one looked like an esolang. 13:03:23 I knew that. 13:03:43 `run tr -cd '+-<>,.[]' < /dev/urandom 13:03:45 31<9-5007[79]/1422;44[,4<06>,:977//>>6,6.0[>,>1;647/67;1]8-8<;<.,4<<]1.,5,7<8+00:4[>7:5.[6.],[92507.73]>:.[-0+<0/:06:-232..[[0/2467;-,]/,/543-[0//,5:.9];,:>98+.>+][3.,46<;>-1.:>37-66<],[6><+0;>>55872/;39.<,10>08>>0[-2,7[2,7[/4/776+>:+1;644:;4.>]4->9;]9.];]-0<479-96<793;/+39;[9].:9>7-4,7.:>7926-2,4:1..;6<-69:;[<-2.5;814<+1.8<]>8]<67437088+<<;241[570 13:03:56 That, too. 13:04:02 `run tr -cd '\+\-\<\>\,\.\[\]' < /dev/urandom 13:04:04 ​>,+.]>,[,[.[[-.+],]>+>+<.][[]-.<[.>+,-.>]><]>[]-+-<<<-]+>]-],<[[>[<].-,+>.+[<>>-<<+[[].>]<<[-].]<][-+<.+[<]<-++,]-,,,,,<>.-[+->.]].]<>>>[<++<[.+>[[--++-[>->,.[,.[+.<+>[>[>,[>]>-.-+++]-,+<--..<,+[.,+,-[.,[.<]>],+>]+-[<>[-<],-[]<-[],<+.+.,<<<<[,]>].<[,-,<.-,<<]>-[]-[-][].>.>>.[>->,-+-++++--<,<,+<<[-><+[[<.<.]..+]<>[.,<.,.>+]<.+>]<,.,.<-<>>>>[]>+][ 13:04:49 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:05:03 I'd run it if it weren't for the mismatched []s. 13:05:54 !bfjoust dawkins [[[[?>,+.]>,[,[.[[-.+],]>+>+<.][[]-.<[.>+,-.>]><]>[]-+-<<<-]+>]-],<[[>[<].-,+>.+[<>>-<<+[[].>]<<[-].]<][-+<.+[<]<-++,]-,,,,,<>.-[+->.]].]<>>>[<++<[.+>[[--++-[>->,.[,.[+.<+>[>[>,[>]>-.-+++]-,+<--..<,+[.,+,-[.,[.<]>],+>]+-[<>[-<],-[]<-[],<+.+.,<<<<[,]>].<[,-,<.-,<<]>-[]-[-][].>.>>.[>->,-+-++++--<,<,+<<[-><+[[<.<.]..+]<>[.,<.,.>+]<.+>]<,.,.<-<>>>>[]>+][]]]]]]]]] 13:06:03 ​Score for Jafet_dawkins: 0.0 13:06:25 !bfjoust [ [ 13:06:28 ​Score for Jafet__: 0.0 13:07:09 Now I didn't manage to catch the breakdown.txt for dawkins. :/ 13:07:33 Wait, why is there a ? 13:07:41 !bfjoust dawkins [[[[>,+.]>,[,[.[[-.+],]>+>+<.][[]-.<[.>+,-.>]><]>[]-+-<<<-]+>]-],<[[>[<].-,+>.+[<>>-<<+[[].>]<<[-].]<][-+<.+[<]<-++,]-,,,,,<>.-[+->.]].]<>>>[<++<[.+>[[--++-[>->,.[,.[+.<+>[>[>,[>]>-.-+++]-,+<--..<,+[.,+,-[.,[.<]>],+>]+-[<>[-<],-[]<-[],<+.+.,<<<<[,]>].<[,-,<.-,<<]>-[]-[-][].>.>>.[>->,-+-++++--<,<,+<<[-><+[[<.<.]..+]<>[.,<.,.>+]<.+>]<,.,.<-<>>>>[]>+][]]]]]]]]] 13:07:44 ​Score for Jafet_dawkins: 0.0 13:07:57 Well, there's *some* wins. 13:08:21 Also what are those two last matches -- ais523_counterpoke.bfjoust vs ais523_vibration.bfjoust and ais523_waterfall2.bfjoust vs atehwa_test_blah.bfjoust -- doing at the bottom of breakdown.txt? 13:10:27 `run rm wisdom/ngevd && ln /dev/urandom wisdom/ngevd 13:10:30 ln: creating hard link `wisdom/ngevd' => `/dev/urandom': Invalid cross-device link 13:11:50 -!- heroux has joined. 13:12:59 `? ngevd 13:13:00 ngevd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:13:09 * oerjan swats Jafet -----### 13:13:29 `run ln -s /dev/urandom wisdom/ngevd 13:13:31 No output. 13:13:36 `? ngevd 13:13:37 ​$aFZo~+Qxh.-uZQ/$ 13:14:01 That was a rather short ngevd. 13:14:18 indeed 13:14:58 how does /dev/urandom end in the first place. 13:15:31 `run echo -e 'abc\0def' 13:15:32 abc.def 13:15:47 `run echo -e '\0' | hd 13:15:48 00000000 00 0a |..| \ 00000002 13:16:08 `run echo -e 'abc\377def' 13:16:09 abc\377def 13:16:13 `run echo -e 'abc\xffdef' 13:16:14 abcdef 13:17:46 `run printf 'abc\x0ddef' 13:17:47 abc 13:17:49 There you go. 13:19:16 (I have no idea why a CR does that; based on a quick test of adding some valid IRC commands after, it's not just because it were sending that raw.) 13:22:56 fancy 13:23:50 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 13:26:06 -!- frecz11642 has quit (Quit: irc2go). 13:28:17 `run ls wisdom | shuf 13:28:18 elliott \ shachaf \ welcome \ monqy \ banach-tarski \ hackego \ object \ endofunctor \ augur \ nooga \ gaspacho \ mad \ burma \ zzo38 \ php \ wiki \ coppro \ monoid \ friendship \ c \ gazpacho \ phantom____________________hoover \ usa \ irc \ brain \ egobot \ norway \ phantom__hoover \ qdb \ kallisti \ everyone \ d-modules \ oceans \ oklopol \ phan 13:28:28 `?hh banach-tarski 13:28:30 ​"Bahnahch-Tahrski" ihs ahn ahnahgrahm ohf "Bahnahch-Tahrski Bahnahch-Tahrski". 13:28:30 :| 13:28:34 i hate you :( 13:28:38 `?hh endofunctor 13:28:39 Ehndohfuhnctohrs ahre juhst ehndohmohrphihsms ihn the cahtehgohry ohf cahtehgohriehs. 13:28:46 `?hh gaszpacho 13:28:48 gahszpahcho ihs a pohlihsh souhp, trahdihtiohnahlly szehrvehd cohld fohr hoht szuhmmehr dayhs 13:29:01 `?hh gazspacho 13:29:03 gahzspahcho ihs a huhngahriahn szouhp, trahdihzsohnahlly szehrvehd cohld fohr hoht szuhmmehr dayhz 13:29:48 `?hh brain 13:29:49 Braihns ahre juhst rehcehptahclehs fohr brihcks. 13:29:50 Today's winning Subject: field: "CfP Workshop on". 13:29:56 It did make me look at the contents, at least. 13:30:02 `?hh php 13:30:03 PHP ihs prehfehrrehd by 9 ouht ohf 10 ihdiohts, ahnd pahst ehlliohtt. Ahsk youhr GP tohday! [Wehbsihte rehdahctehd] 13:30:08 `?hh wiki 13:30:09 The wihki ihs aht http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki 13:30:31 `cat bin/hh 13:30:32 cat: bin/hh: No such file or directory 13:30:36 `cat bin/?hh 13:30:37 ​? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' 13:31:07 `h 13:31:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: h: not found 13:31:12 `run echo 'perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'\'' > bin/h; chmod +x bin/h 13:31:14 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 13:31:32 `run echo 'perl -pe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'\''' > bin/h; chmod +x bin/h 13:31:35 No output. 13:31:42 `run welcome | h 13:31:44 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 13:31:47 `cat bin/WELCOME 13:31:48 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' 13:32:17 `run echo 'welcome "$@" | h' > bin/wehlcohme; chmod +x bin/wehlcohme 13:32:20 No output. 13:32:37 `wehlcohme oerjan du jour 13:32:39 oehrjahn: du: jouhr: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 13:32:59 (THE JOKE IS DU JOERJAN BTW) 13:34:06 `?hh funpuns 13:34:08 fuhnpuhns? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:34:11 WHAT 13:35:21 `run welcome | h | h 13:35:23 Wehhlcohhme to the ihhntehhrnahhtiohhnahhl huhhb fohhr ehhsohhtehhrihhc prohhgrahhmmihhng lahhnguahhge dehhsihhgn ahhnd dehhployhhmehhnt! Fohhr mohhre ihhnfohhrmahhtiohhn, chehhck ouhht ouhhr wihhki: http://ehhsohhlahhngs.ohhrg/wihhki/Maihhn_Pahhge. (Fohhr the ohhthehhr kihhnd ohhf ehhsohhtehhrihhca, try #ehhsohhtehhrihhc ohhn ihhrc.dahhl.nehht.) 13:35:27 `run welcome | h | h | h | h | h 13:35:30 Wehhhhhlcohhhhhme to the ihhhhhntehhhhhrnahhhhhtiohhhhhnahhhhhl huhhhhhb fohhhhhr ehhhhhsohhhhhtehhhhhrihhhhhc prohhhhhgrahhhhhmmihhhhhng lahhhhhnguahhhhhge dehhhhhsihhhhhgn ahhhhhnd dehhhhhployhhhhhmehhhhhnt! Fohhhhhr mohhhhhre ihhhhhnfohhhhhrmahhhhhtiohhhhhn, chehhhhhck ouhhhhht ouhhhhhr wihhhhhki: http://ehhhhhsohhhhhlahhhhhngs.ohhhhhrg/wihhhhhk 13:36:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:36:21 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:36:28 Today's h% is at 5.16% according to my logs; yesterday's was 3.41%. 13:37:14 fungot: Do you "h"? 13:37:15 fizzie: it's short for fnord tach guten tag ( german) 13:37:35 fizzie: Can we have a graph of h% over time? 13:37:57 `run echo monqy |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h 13:38:01 mohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnqy 13:38:09 I probably shouldn't, but I'm terribly tempted to. 13:38:09 `run echo monqy |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h 13:38:17 fizzie: I'd look at it! 13:38:19 mohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnqy 13:38:35 `run echo kan |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h |h 13:38:39 kahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhn 13:38:46 (what do you _mean_ it's wrong) 13:38:58 fizzie: Or at least give us more information. 13:39:00 `cat bin/h 13:39:02 perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' 13:39:04 Is this the highest h% we've ever had? 13:39:07 oerjan: QUIET 13:39:12 It's meant to be this way. 13:39:19 but but #!... 13:39:40 #!/usr/bin/perl -p 13:41:26 `run sed -i 's/perl -pe '\''.*'\''/#!/usr/bin/perl -p\n$1' bin/h 13:41:27 sed: -e expression #1, char 20: unknown option to `s' 13:41:32 O KAY 13:42:29 `run type -a sponge 13:42:30 bash: line 0: type: sponge: not found 13:42:41 `run printf "%s" '#!/usr/bin/perl -p'"\n"'s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' >bin/h 13:42:45 No output. 13:42:49 `cat bin/h 13:42:50 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -p\ns/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig 13:42:54 oops 13:43:00 Why the printf? 13:43:44 `run (echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -p'; echo 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig') >bin/h 13:43:47 No output. 13:43:52 `cat bin/h 13:43:53 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig 13:43:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:44:08 someone demonstrated it, so i wanted to try. 13:44:20 `run welcome | h 13:44:22 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 13:45:05 `run echo 'perl -ipe '\''s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig'\'' "$1"' > bin/'h!'; chmod +x bin/'h!' 13:45:08 No output. 13:46:19 wat. 13:46:23 oh 13:47:20 `run printf "%s" how did it go again 13:47:21 howdiditgoagain 13:47:33 `run printf "%s\n" how did it go again 13:47:35 how \ did \ it \ go \ again 13:47:40 huh 13:47:56 spooky 13:48:26 shachaf: http://sprunge.us/ibUP (But the database is only updated every now and then, so it doesn't really have much of today in it.) 13:48:57 `which printf 13:48:58 ​/usr/bin/printf 13:49:02 `run which printf 13:49:03 ​/usr/bin/printf 13:49:15 `printf --version 13:49:16 printf (GNU coreutils) 8.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later . \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by David MacKenzie. 13:49:56 `run type printf # there's also this 13:49:57 printf is a shell builtin 13:50:22 `run printf --version # which doesn't know about versions 13:50:24 bash: line 0: printf: --: invalid option \ printf: usage: printf [-v var] format [arguments] 13:50:28 `run welcome > testfile 13:50:31 oh, i assumed which would catch builtins 13:50:31 No output. 13:50:33 `h! testfile 13:50:34 Can't open perl script "s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig": No such file or directory 13:50:38 Pft. 13:50:42 `cat bin/h! 13:50:43 perl -ipe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' "$1" 13:50:45 `run which which 13:50:46 ​/usr/bin/which 13:50:55 `run echo $SHELL 13:50:56 ​/bin/sh 13:50:56 I vaguely remember a rant about how the chap who makes Python doesn't like functional programming 13:51:08 `run echo $0 13:51:09 bash 13:51:33 `run sed s/i/i\'\'\ -/ bin/h\! 13:51:34 perl -i'' -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' "$1" 13:51:41 `run sed -i s/i/i\'\'\ -/ bin/h\! 13:51:44 No output. 13:52:04 `h! testfile 13:52:07 No output. 13:52:08 `cat testfile 13:52:09 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 13:52:14 `rm testfile 13:52:16 No output. 13:53:07 `run which witch 13:53:08 No output. 13:53:30 oerjan: would it be bad if i `h! wisdom/welcome 13:54:13 fizzie: Oh, thanks! 13:54:15 it's bad that you're even _thinking_ about it, shachaf 13:54:26 fizzie: So today is the highest-h% day ever? 13:54:44 oerjan: Would you /kickban me if I did it? 13:54:58 fizzie: you should graph frequency of letter / average frequency of letter for all letters, hth 13:55:17 hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth 13:55:28 `echo just doing my part | h 13:55:29 just doing my part | h 13:55:37 Well done, HackEgo. 13:55:40 `run echo just doing my part | h 13:55:41 juhst doihng my pahrt 13:56:07 elliott: I think there's something wrong with the wiki 13:56:18 my browser tells me it can't find the server for http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge 13:56:23 hm i guess that would give huge variation for rare letters. 13:57:01 i think it's shachaf's job to buy us the ohrg domain for that use 13:57:01 Arc_Koen: Oops, that's a bug in the welcome script. 13:57:02 Try this: 13:57:17 shachaf: The 5.16%/3.41% numbers weren't computed in quite the same way, so I can't be exactly sure; and the query only looked at last year and this; but odds are reasonable. (According to http://sprunge.us/XCaj mean h is 0.035, with a sigma of 0.0026, so an actual 5.16% would be like a six-sigma result. 13:57:22 `run wehlcome Arc_Koen |h |h |h |h 13:57:24 bash: wehlcome: command not found 13:57:27 `run wehlcohme Arc_Koen |h |h |h |h 13:57:30 Ahhhhhrc_Koehhhhhn: Wehhhhhlcohhhhhme to the ihhhhhntehhhhhrnahhhhhtiohhhhhnahhhhhl huhhhhhb fohhhhhr ehhhhhsohhhhhtehhhhhrihhhhhc prohhhhhgrahhhhhmmihhhhhng lahhhhhnguahhhhhge dehhhhhsihhhhhgn ahhhhhnd dehhhhhployhhhhhmehhhhhnt! Fohhhhhr mohhhhhre ihhhhhnfohhhhhrmahhhhhtiohhhhhn, chehhhhhck ouhhhhht ouhhhhhr wihhhhhki: http://ehhhhhsohhhhhlahhhhhn 13:57:38 `run wehlcohme Arc_Koen |h 13:57:40 Ahhrc_Koehhn: Wehhlcohhme to the ihhntehhrnahhtiohhnahhl huhhb fohhr ehhsohhtehhrihhc prohhgrahhmmihhng lahhnguahhge dehhsihhgn ahhnd dehhployhhmehhnt! Fohhr mohhre ihhnfohhrmahhtiohhn, chehhck ouhht ouhhr wihhki: http://ehhsohhlahhngs.ohhrg/wihhki/Maihhn_Pahhge. (Fohhr the ohhthehhr kihhnd ohhf ehhsohhtehhrihhca, try #ehhsohhtehhrihhc ohhn ihhrc.d 13:58:22 -!- Arc_Koen has changed nick to Ahhrc_Koehhn. 13:59:08 ^rot13 shahchahf 13:59:08 funupunus 13:59:32 oerjan: I'll certainly try to include that in the forthcoming "#esoteric visualizations" website. 13:59:45 yay! 14:01:17 Maybe some kind of a RRDtool-driven thing could work for it, this query across the whole of time itself is taking a long long time. 14:01:20 oerjan: Homework: Improve `h so that you can give it command line arguments. 14:01:47 E.g. if $# > 1 echo $@ | exec $0 14:01:50 Or something. 14:01:52 Too tired. 14:02:04 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz 14:02:17 `run echo ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz | h 14:02:18 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz 14:02:24 help it's immune 14:02:41 `run echo Phantom_Hoover | h 14:02:42 Phahntohm_Hoohvehr 14:03:04 shouldn't that be "Phahntohm_Hohohvehr" 14:04:28 nohpe 14:04:42 `run ls 14:04:43 bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 14:04:47 `cat dbg.out 14:04:48 ​+ trap 'kill -TERM 0' EXIT \ + read s \ + files=(/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2013-??-??.txt) \ + line= \ + jobs \ + [[ -z '' ]] \ + sleep .3 \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ + for i in '"${!files[@]}"' \ 14:04:54 Does anyone need that file? 14:04:59 I really want to h! it. 14:06:56 Okay, the full query says there's been a h% of approximately 67% on 2004-11-22, but on that day the only message was "heh", so maybe it doesn't quite count? http://sprunge.us/OPVj 14:07:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:07:40 2004-07-04 managed an impressive 37.5% over nine separate messages, though. 14:07:57 ("hi", "hi", "dah", "you", "oh no", "heh", "hi", "hi" and "hi".) 14:08:07 -!- augur has joined. 14:08:24 (Also my logs are occasionally spotty, I've spent a few months away now and then.) 14:09:22 Who said the "heh"? 14:09:36 That was "tonsofpcs". 14:09:56 Oh, unless you meant the other "heh". 14:10:03 The single-"heh" day "heh" was lament. 14:10:14 Ah, lament 14:10:16 lament++ 14:10:27 I hear lament can't Cale. 14:11:57 shachaf: i doubt it will be missed http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=dbg.out 14:12:17 `cat bin/paste 14:12:18 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTE=- \ else \ PASTE="$1" \ fi \ \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" 14:12:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:12:52 `paste test 14:12:54 -!- boily has joined. 14:12:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32510 14:13:16 huh 14:14:09 `h! test 14:14:12 No output. 14:14:14 `paste test 14:14:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.352 14:15:18 Considering only days with at least 200 messages (a number out of a hat), hhhhighest h-honour goes to 2005-05-09 with 4.658%. http://sprunge.us/NaEU 14:15:19 `ls 14:15:20 bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 14:15:29 `paste nosuchfile 14:15:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5817 \ cat: nosuchfile: No such file or directory 14:15:36 aha 14:17:20 `url bin/paste 14:17:21 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/paste 14:17:23 Thhhhough we're all abso-hhh-lutely ruining today's originally-hhhhhhigh chhances of gehttihng to the thop, withhhhh all this unnecessary chhatter. 14:17:45 hohw hohrrihble 14:17:53 Weh're noht gohihng to geht pahst 67% 14:18:28 It just takes hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh determination. 14:18:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 14:20:15 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste 14:20:20 2013-01-25 14:20:18 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste [181/181] -> "paste.1" [1] 14:20:44 `run cat paste.1 >bin/paste 14:20:47 No output. 14:20:53 `paste test 14:20:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/test 14:21:01 `run echo test | paste 14:21:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19590 14:21:08 oerjan has a web page? 14:22:11 there, now paste is a synonym for url when there's an actual filename 14:22:23 `run rm paste.1 14:22:26 No output. 14:23:20 `run echo helloerjan | h 14:23:22 hehlloehrjahn 14:23:41 imo an improvement 14:24:01 hehlloehrjahn 14:24:03 `cat bin/paste 14:24:04 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ else \ url "$1" \ fi 14:24:59 oerjan: Were you referring to the dinosaur? 14:25:22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaan 14:25:39 `run sed -i -e 's/else/else # Save making a file when it already exists./' bin/paste 14:25:42 No output. 14:25:46 `cat bin/paste 14:25:47 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ else # Save making a file when it already exists. \ url "$1" \ fi 14:25:54 `paste test 14:25:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/test 14:26:19 shachaf: no. 14:27:58 hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhi all! 14:28:16 hhhhhhhhhhhehlloh bhoihlyh 14:28:59 -!- oerjan has set topic: WHYH HHHHHHELLOHH THEHRE | FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE | concealed in fold of goat-time lumber | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:29:06 `run ls wisdom | shuf 14:29:07 phantom____________________hoover \ brick \ gaspacho \ bike \ gregor \ lifthrasiir \ cakeprophet \ c \ boily \ i \ norway \ shachaf \ egobot \ ☃ \ misspellings of croissant \ monoid \ the them \ natural transformation \ lens \ gazpacho \ lettuce \ wiki \ flagpole \ monoids \ itidus21 \ szoup \ vorpal \ välkommen \ fiora \ taneb \ devious \ ø \ 14:29:12 `?hh phantom____________________hoover 14:29:13 Youhr souhndcahrd wohrks pehrfehctly. 14:29:32 imo hhhhhhhhtml shouhld be the nehw stahndahrd 14:29:33 `?hh lifthrasiir 14:29:34 much better accent now 14:29:35 lihfthrahsiihr ihs shuhnnehd by the rehst ohf hihs couhntry fohr beihng no goohd aht Leahgue ohf Lehgehnds. 14:29:38 `?hh brick 14:29:40 Brihck goehs ihn braihn. The stahtuhtohry puhnihshmehnt fohr pehrpehtrahtohrs ohf braihnfuhck dehrihvahtihvehs. 14:29:41 ... 14:30:05 `? i 14:30:06 `?hh cakeprophet 14:30:06 i love monoids 14:30:08 ​:> 14:30:12 `?hh monoids 14:30:14 Mohnoihds ahre the eahsy vehrsiohn ohf cahtehgohriehs. 14:30:14 `?hh i 14:30:16 i lohve mohnoihds 14:30:27 `?hh flagpole 14:30:28 A flahgpohle ihs lihke a tahdpohle, buht wihth a flahg ohn tohp. 14:30:29 hhh... 14:30:30 `?hh lettuce 14:30:31 Lehttuhce ihs a vehgehtahble wihth two drehssihngs, joihn ahnd meeht. 14:30:40 `?hh Ngevd 14:30:41 ​˱KXfU`YB_/VR`~3莁܊S|jPj~9]ĒY`UhZ8= 3qpsvo+P~a#]Siy}.NY.a['/ S.͓ܭfEQu.|Q>;ZdF9{EP|d1vz!b}Qa`} \ `?hh vorpal 14:30:57 Vohrpahl ihs reahlly bohrihng. Sehriouhsly, you hahve no ihdea. 14:31:00 `?hh välkommen 14:31:01 Hehj ohch välkohmmehn tihll dehn ihntehrnahtiohnehlla knuhtpuhnktehn för dehsihgn ohch dihstrihbuhtiohn ahv ehsohtehrihska prohgrahmspråk! För mehr ihnfohrmahtiohn, se vår wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (För dehn ahndra sohrtehns ehsohtehrihsm, pröva #ehsohtehrihc på ihrc.dahl.neht.) 14:31:10 `?hh ø 14:31:11 ​ø ihs noht goihng ahnywhehre 14:31:19 `?hh misspellings of croissant 14:31:21 mihsspehllihngs ohf crohsahnt? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:31:32 `?hh natural transformation 14:31:33 Nahtuhrahl trahnsfohrmahtiohns ahre juhst mohrphihsms ihn the cahtehgohry ohf fuhnctohrs 14:31:58 `learn Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug 14:32:02 I knew that. 14:32:07 `?hh Ø 14:32:09 ​Ø ehscahpehd due to a sehnsihtihve cahse buhg 14:32:19 `?hh szoup 14:32:20 A szouhp a szihlárd tápszehrehknehk híg ahlahkbahn vahló ehlkészítése a célból, hohgy könnyehbbehn ehmészthehtők lehgyehnehk; a hígító ahnyahg a vihz, mehly fehlohldja s mahgába vehszi a tápahnyahg lehgértékehsehbb részeiht. 14:32:25 `? soup 14:32:26 What soup, Doc? 14:32:29 `? szoup 14:32:31 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 14:32:35 `? cheese 14:32:36 cheese? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:32:40 `?hh zsoup 14:32:41 zsouhp? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:32:49 `run ls wisdom | shuf 14:32:50 ​🐐 \ substructural typing \ intercal \ scotland \ oerjan \ pietbot \ ☃ \ ais523 \ america \ wisdom \ webcarting \ phantom__hoover \ europe \ coffee \ monqy \ everyone \ c \ maths \ ? \ lettuce \ the us \ atrix \ brick \ united states \ freefull \ finland \ england \ sgeo \ phantom_______hoover \ olsner \ i \ nooga \ finnish \ hackego \ shach 14:32:55 `?hh substructural typing 14:32:57 Noht to be cohnfuhsehd wihth struhctuhrahl suhbtyhpihng. 14:33:05 `run ls wisdom/* | shuf 14:33:06 wisdom/glogbot \ wisdom/gazspaczo \ wisdom/gazpacho \ wisdom/monqy \ wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/misspellings of croissant \ wisdom/olsner \ wisdom/☃ \ wisdom/flower \ wisdom/shachaf \ wisdom/the them \ wisdom/coppro \ wisdom/wercome \ wisdom/wisdom \ wisdom/lifthrasiir \ wisdom/pie \ wisdom/nooga \ wisdom/ievan \ wisdom/hexham \ wisdom/u \ wisdom/ 14:33:07 13:56:07 #esoteric: elliott: I think there's something wrong with the wiki 14:33:09 `?hh struhctuhrahl suhbtyhpihng 14:33:11 wrong howso 14:33:11 struhhctuhhrahhl suhhbtyhhpihhng? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:33:14 oh you're gone 14:33:21 elliott: It was just a joke anyway. 14:33:43 elliott: btw ihm gohihng to sleehp ihn a mohmehnt 14:33:49 `?hh structural subtyping 14:33:50 Noht to be cohnfuhsehd wihth suhbstruhctuhrahl tyhpihng. 14:34:01 `?hh ievan 14:34:03 iehvahn ihs bahsihcahlly http://www.youhtuhbe.cohm/wahtch?v=4ohm1rQKPihjI 14:34:50 `? ievan 14:34:52 ievan is basically http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4om1rQKPijI 14:35:05 obviously. 14:35:20 `?hh pie 14:35:22 I lihke pie \ I lihke pie 14:35:25 `?hh wercome 14:35:26 ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge。(他のエソテリック、ihrc.dahl.nehtの#ehsohtehrihcへ) 14:35:59 `?hh hackego 14:36:01 HahckEhgo, ahlso known ahs HahckBoht, ihs a boht thaht ruhns ahrbihtrahry cohmmahnds ohn Uhnihx. See `hehlp fohr ihnfo ohn uhsihng iht. You shouhld tohtahlly try to hahx0r iht! Mahke suhre you ihmahgihne iht's ruhnnihng ahs rooht wihth no sahndbohxihng. 14:36:03 `?hh atrix 14:36:04 Ahtrihx ihs a brahnd ohf hahnd creahm. Noht to be cohnfuhsehd wihth ahtrihq. 14:43:09 -!- augur has joined. 14:45:29 `?hh sweden 14:45:30 Swehdehn ihs the suhbuhrb cahpihtahl ohf Nohrway. Iht's whehre ahll the Nohbehl prihzehs ahre ahnnouhncehd, ehxcehpt the Mahth Prihze. 14:47:35 bhy the whay, why arhe whe h-ing evherhythingh thodhay? 14:48:04 boily: oerjn is paying penance for /kickbanning me 14:48:24 wat 14:48:36 *waht 14:48:40 pehnahnce 14:48:51 `?hh parsley 14:48:52 pahrsley? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:48:55 ahh. phenhanche. 14:50:30 `learn Parsley is a girl in the South Seas. 14:50:35 I knew that. 14:50:54 I think. 14:51:00 Maybe Parsley is a princess? 14:51:08 In der Südsee angekommen, treffen die drei auf das im Schachbrettmuster gefärbte Mädchen Petersilie (dessen Vater ein Stammeshäuptling, die Mutter allerdings Tippfräulein auf einer hiesigen Kokosflockenfarm ist) sowie ihren Vater Rabenaas, der mithilfe seines Taschenmessers, das er mit heißen Bratäpfeln zu laden pflegt, sogar Walfische (die bekanntlich Säugetiere sind und nur aus Versehen im Wasser leben) in die Flucht schlagen kann. ... 14:51:14 ... Negro Kaballo lernt ein Schimmelfräulein kennen und beschließt, bei ihr zu bleiben und nie mehr zu sprechen. Daraufhin machen sich Ringelhuth und Konrad wieder auf den Heimweg und kommen mit Rabenaas’ Hilfe noch so rechtzeitig an, dass der Onkel den Nachtdienst in der Apotheke antreten und der Neffe seinen Aufsatz schreiben kann. Dieser wird von ersterem noch gelesen, als er Konrads Eltern besucht. Zwar halten ihn diese für ... 14:51:20 ... geisteskrank, da er freimütig von seinen Erlebnissen berichtet, doch ihn, den erfahrenen Weitgereisten, kümmert das nicht: Er weiß, was er erlebt hat. 14:51:24 We need a Germanspeaker. 14:52:11 "Petersilie" looks similar to "Persille", which is the norwegian for "Parsley". 14:52:27 hth 14:52:30 Yes. 14:52:43 It was translated to Petrozilya (parsley) in Hebrew. 14:55:34 `learn Pasley is a girl in the South Seas. Persil est une demoiselle des Mers du Sud. 14:55:38 I knew that. 14:56:44 ...did you just misple parsley 14:57:03 woops. 14:57:16 `learn Parsley is a girl in the South Seas. Persil est une demoiselle des Mers du Sud. 14:57:17 PERSILJA. 14:57:19 I knew that. 14:57:19 `rm wisdom/pasley 14:57:22 No output. 14:57:23 thanks. 14:59:48 http://i.imgur.com/I0MAPEk.png 15:01:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:01:52 -!- augur has joined. 15:11:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:12:08 -!- augur has joined. 15:25:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:35:41 `?hh Bike 15:35:42 Bihke ihs frohm Luhxehmbouhrg. 15:36:13 `?hh dal 15:36:15 dahl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:36:21 `?hh irc.dal.net 15:36:22 ihrc.dahl.neht? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:36:50 `run echo royal dal | h 15:36:51 royahl dahl 15:37:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:38:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:03:26 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:05:44 -!- TodPunk has joined. 16:12:53 imo monoids 16:12:56 imonoids 16:23:58 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal. 16:31:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:41:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:57:28 -!- carado has joined. 17:01:24 `? monoids 17:01:26 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 17:06:35 `?hh monoids 17:06:37 Mohnoihds ahre the eahsy vehrsiohn ohf cahtehgohriehs. 17:08:44 `?hh shachaf 17:08:46 shahchahf sprø sohm sehllehri 17:09:36 isnt ø a vowel? 17:09:58 It is, but the rule is vowel followed by a consonant. 17:10:09 (But if it *was* followed by a consonant, we'd be break the rule.) 17:10:37 why is that the rule 17:10:47 hi 17:10:49 why cant vowels followed by spaces be h'd 17:11:07 Because spaces aren't consonants. 17:11:08 qed 17:11:50 oh okay. but what if we changed the rule so that spaces are consonants. is there anything ethically wrong with such a decision? 17:12:08 you can't change the rule................................... 17:12:26 Rules aren't meant to be changed. 17:12:28 comex: Tell 'em! 17:12:33 oh 17:12:35 okay 17:12:36 so 17:12:40 havent you played nomic ? 17:12:50 what if we added a new rule about vowels before spaces 17:12:55 and everyone liked it 17:13:06 would we rip the fabric of the universe apart? 17:41:52 pizza pie for breakfast time 17:42:15 -!- AnotherTest has left. 17:47:18 in approx 25 minutes 17:47:23 So hungry 17:47:41 -!- ogrom has joined. 17:50:16 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:01:11 "This is a reference to Jamie Oliver's food revolution. He dispises anyone who eats pizza for breakfast. Any person being called a pizza breakfaster is being called a really mean name." 18:01:13 What? 18:02:26 `?hh pizza 18:02:28 pihzza? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:03:01 we are better than jamie oliver 18:03:05 `learn Pizza is a kind of rhubarb pie made without rhubarb. 18:03:08 I knew that. 18:06:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:23:20 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 18:29:19 Food. I ingests it. 18:32:35 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:38:36 shachaf: the MIT Mystery Hunt had a puzzle called "Git Hub" 18:38:49 it consisted of a Git repo whose branching structure forms a map of the Boston rapid transit network 18:39:07 Did you play? 18:39:13 no 18:39:32 What was the puzzle? 18:39:47 i don't know, you had to match the station names to commit messages and diffs in some way 18:40:42 -!- Bike has joined. 18:40:47 * shachaf is going to sleep in a moment. 18:40:51 Good morning, Bike. 18:40:55 `?hh Bike 18:40:57 Bihke ihs frohm Luhxehmbouhrg. 18:41:51 good function imo 18:41:56 Luhexhambouhrg 18:42:14 `wehlcohme Bike 18:42:16 Bihke: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 18:42:32 bork bork bork 18:43:24 elliott, go make that link work 18:43:38 he'd have to register another domain name... 18:43:44 `cat bin/?hh 18:43:44 ​? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' 18:44:07 * Sgeo was kidding. Not even sure of .ohrg is an existent TLD 18:44:09 *if 18:44:20 Running `h! wisdom/welcome gets you kickbanned from the channel. 18:44:23 well he could register the new tld for just a few thousand fucks 18:44:39 bucks 18:44:44 fucks would work too probably 18:45:11 shachaf, now I'm curious 18:45:35 No output 18:45:41 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:45:47 oerjan HATES it when there's no output, I guess. 18:45:57 `cat bin/h! 18:45:58 perl -i'' -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' "$1" 18:46:09 Uh oh. 18:46:12 `welcome oerjan 18:46:14 oerjan: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 18:46:17 that's a lot of quotation 18:46:29 Sgeo......................................................................................................... 18:46:35 ...I was assuming the output would be what was bad 18:46:55 You hahve dohne the uhnthihnkahble 18:47:08 Sgeo: Didn't you learn from Racket? 18:47:32 side effects are REAL sgeo. they are REAL and they want to hunt you down and HURT you 18:48:50 Good night. 18:59:51 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 19:01:43 `addquote well he could register the new tld for just a few thousand fucks 19:01:46 938) well he could register the new tld for just a few thousand fucks 19:02:32 -!- monqy has joined. 19:04:25 small price to pay 19:10:18 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:10:55 fungot has left? nooooooooooooooooooo! 19:11:03 rip 19:11:06 Whoopsie. 19:11:28 -!- fungot has joined. 19:12:25 long live the fungot! 19:12:26 boily: since there's no way to move it to -blah then, huh... 19:12:45 well, fungot just moved to -blah. 19:12:46 boily: alas, i am deformative, not deewiant. :p they claim that it's beautiful but certainly featureful. i agree that the world has agreed on not doing it if i was a little boy 19:13:03 If only we all were deewiant. Alas. 19:13:28 fungot was deformative all along?! 19:13:29 Deewiant: what way is call/ cc) ( call/ cc, by the way, scheme borrowed from algol more than some weeks or a couple more generations", seems rather cozy. 19:13:46 `welcome 19:13:47 Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 19:14:00 `run sed -i s/h// wisdom/welcome 19:14:03 No output. 19:14:06 `welcome 19:14:08 Welcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 19:14:19 haha 19:14:21 ... 19:14:25 you forgot a 'g' 19:14:26 I see it's beehn h'd. 19:14:32 `run sed -i s/h//g wisdom/welcome 19:14:35 No output. 19:14:40 `welcome 19:14:41 Welcome to te international ub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, ceck out our wiki: ttp://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For te oter kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:14:46 perfect. 19:14:53 This is the best ub there is. 19:15:11 I like this ub, especially on Fridays. 19:16:18 `revert 19:16:20 I'm sure there was a better way to fix it 19:16:21 Done. 19:16:25 Besides reversions 19:16:49 Just delete all h's between a vowel and a consonant. Imperfect but probably fewer repairs to do 19:17:19 `welcome 19:17:20 Welcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 19:17:26 yeah, ok. 19:17:32 `welcome 19:17:35 Welcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 19:17:39 `learn Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:17:43 I knew that. 19:17:46 `welcome 19:17:47 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:17:52 Twats. 19:18:04 My solution was better. 19:18:06 Automated. 19:18:15 `run welcome | h | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])h([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1$2/ig' 19:18:17 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:18:20 `learn ub is a saner hub. 19:18:23 I knew that. 19:18:29 Ooh, I think the unh works perfectly for that. 19:19:43 `run cat bin/h 19:19:44 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig 19:19:49 `run printf '%s\n' '#!/usr/bin/perl -p' 's/([aeiouy])h([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1$2/ig' > bin/unh; chmod +x bin/unh # I'm sure we need all these 19:19:51 No output. 19:20:25 `run echo hello there, dahl | h | h | h | unh | unh | unh 19:20:26 hello there, dahl 19:33:02 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:37:13 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 19:40:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:42:24 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 19:42:25 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 19:53:17 `run echo royal dal | h <-- it's "roald" hth 19:54:17 `url ? 19:54:19 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/? 19:54:25 `url bin/? 19:54:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/? 19:55:02 wtf :P 19:55:36 `run cat bin/'?' | paste 19:55:40 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16040 19:55:50 `translatetoerjan hello there 19:55:54 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 4, in \ data = json.loads(sys.stdin.read().decode('utf-8')) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/__init__.py", line 310, in loads \ return _default_decoder.decode(s) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 346, in decode \ obj, end 19:56:00 hooray 19:56:17 oh hm maybe url needs to do actual url escaping 19:56:21 `cat bin/url 19:56:22 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/'"$1" \ else \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/' \ fi 19:56:35 how does one do that, anyway 19:56:47 running it through a cargoculted regex 19:57:00 `cat bin/translatefromto 19:57:01 ​#!/bin/bash \ TEXT="$1" \ FROM=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ TO=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ if [ "$FROM" = "auto" ] ; then FROM="" ; fi \ \ curl -e http://codu.org/ http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/services/language/translate \ \ --data-urlenco 19:57:21 I just thought of something evil 19:57:23 oh hm i think those use curl 19:57:37 `cat bin/google 19:57:38 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Google what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q='"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 4 'Search Results' | \ tail -n 2 19:57:44 `run dd if=/dev/zero of=bluh bs=1M 19:57:48 File size limit exceeded 19:57:55 `ls 19:57:56 bin \ bluh \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 19:58:11 `ls -l bluh 19:58:12 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 19:58:16 `run ls -l bluh 19:58:18 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 10485760 Jan 25 19:57 bluh 19:58:30 Hmm 19:58:52 `cat bluh 19:58:54 ​........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 19:59:32 I'm tempted to flood the filesystem with max-size files 19:59:47 that's just annoying 20:00:02 please find a funnier abuse of the bot :) 20:00:25 `run echo "FreeFull" | cat - bluh 20:00:26 FreeFull \ ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 20:00:31 `run grep -l 'lynx|curl|wget' bin/* 20:00:33 noooo 20:00:33 No output. 20:00:39 oops 20:01:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metasepia_pfefferi is a weird cuttlefish 20:01:18 `run grep -l 'curl' bin/* 20:01:19 `run grep -l 'lynx|curl|wget|nc|netcat' * -R 20:01:19 bin/tclkit \ bin/translatefromto 20:01:28 it's tiny (6cm), poisonous, and it walks on the ocean floor rather than swimming 20:01:29 `run grep -P -l 'lynx|curl|wget' bin/* 20:01:31 bin/define \ bin/etymology \ bin/google \ bin/lua \ bin/luac \ bin/macro \ bin/tclkit \ bin/translatefromto \ bin/units 20:01:36 No output. 20:01:40 `cat bin/define 20:01:41 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Define what?' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \ \ --dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q=define:'"$QUERY" | \ grep -A 3 'Definitions of' | \ head -n 4 | tail -n 3 20:01:55 `cat bin/units 20:01:56 ​ELF...........>.....@.....@.......82.........@.8..@.(.%..................@.......@.....h.....h....... ............n.....nt.....nt.....Xk.............. ...................@......@.....D.......D....................n.....nt.....nt.....(.....................Qtd..................................................Rt 20:01:59 oops 20:02:16 `? ngevd 20:02:18 ​+ص.m4c$P1#DGE~@ctskk~ZI?Fw.Od~?0 #hY=,͚Gضevm.AE5Ө|5ٯRf"XRY|,d37\A(EpVfvD;&񾕑L縸A^'dGAojI!/f]m6"aΌ}{ӮgNtauZc%-.x}k.G[^F?L‹C}!Б_뒤=r{l&'J 20:02:24 amen 20:02:29 Whyyyyy 20:02:33 clap 20:02:49 I got it 20:03:00 i don't think you got it 20:03:14 kmc: aren't all cuttlefish weird? 20:03:43 sure but this one is weird among cuttlefish 20:04:12 :D 20:04:15 :3 20:04:40 i don't think there's a cuttlefish in unicode :/ 20:04:52 combining cuttlefish below 20:05:30 🐡 There is a blowfish 20:05:35 `run ls 20:05:36 bin \ bluh \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 20:05:53 Curious, is run write-protected? 20:05:59 `run ls -l run 20:06:00 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 35 Jan 25 20:04 run 20:06:05 `cat run 20:06:06 ​\#!/bin/sh\necho -ne 'Mmm, pie!'\n 20:06:08 `rm run 20:06:11 No output. 20:06:20 `run test 20:06:21 No output. 20:06:27 `run echo meow 20:06:29 meow 20:06:31 Seems it's built in 20:06:43 Or the actual run is bin/run 20:06:48 `run ls bin/run 20:06:49 bin/run 20:06:57 `run cat bin/run 20:06:59 ​#!/bin/sh \ bash -c "$@" 20:07:00 `rm bin/run 20:07:03 No output. 20:07:07 `run test 20:07:07 `run echo hi 20:07:07 hi 20:07:08 No output. 20:07:13 Built in. 20:07:25 `run find . -name run 20:07:29 ​./.hg/store/data/run 20:11:28 shachaf: so I learned how to use AES-NI 20:11:38 * Sgeo goes to watch some Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 20:12:11 Sgeo: Good work. 20:14:14 If my gf likes H+ (she does), does that suggest she'll like Ghost in the Shell? 20:14:57 H+? 20:15:11 Ah. Decent chance. 20:16:11 * Bike grumbles 20:16:22 `run ls /bin/*url* 20:16:23 ls: cannot access /bin/*url*: No such file or directory 20:16:36 `run ls /bin/*uni* 20:16:38 ls: cannot access /bin/*uni*: No such file or directory 20:17:36 pikhq: by the way, did you hear about the new ghost in the shell show? the major has pants this time. 20:18:47 `which python 20:18:49 ​/opt/python27/bin/python 20:19:05 wtf 20:19:14 `which env 20:19:15 ​/usr/bin/env 20:20:00 `which run 20:20:01 No output. 20:20:22 `run python -c "import urllib; print urllib.quote('''http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/?''')" 20:20:24 http%3A//codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/%3F 20:20:45 `cat bin/url 20:20:47 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/'"$1" \ else \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/' \ fi 20:21:07 Bike: I heard. 20:21:21 Bike: My girlfriend said something along the lines of "bullshit". 20:21:28 haha 20:26:51 `fetch url 20:26:51 wget: unable to resolve host address `url' 20:27:00 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/url 20:27:05 2013-01-25 20:27:04 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/url [223/223] -> "url" [1] 20:27:14 `run chmod a+x url 20:27:17 No output. 20:27:24 `./url 20:27:26 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/url", line 3, in \ arg = sys.argv(1) \ TypeError: 'list' object is not callable 20:28:49 oh duh so much for copying code from stackoverflow without checking if someone already pointed out it's buggy :P 20:29:29 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 20:34:41 `cat bin/fetch 20:34:42 cat: bin/fetch: No such file or directory 20:35:37 wtf undigitizable code? 20:37:42 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/url 20:37:45 2013-01-25 20:37:43 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/url [240/240] -> "url.1" [1] 20:37:59 `run cat url >bin/url 20:38:02 No output. 20:38:06 `url 20:38:07 oerjan: 'url.1" 20:38:07 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/url", line 3, in \ arg = sys.argv(1) \ TypeError: 'list' object is not callable 20:38:08 *" 20:38:10 oops 20:38:15 `run cat url.1 >bin/url 20:38:18 No output. 20:38:20 `url 20:38:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 20:38:29 `url bin/? 20:38:31 http%3A//codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%3F 20:39:27 fff 20:39:50 for fsck's fake? 20:40:12 urlencoding is suffering 20:40:57 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/url 20:41:00 2013-01-25 20:40:58 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/url [233/233] -> "url.2" [1] 20:41:06 `run cat url.2 >bin/url 20:41:11 No output. 20:41:14 `url bin/? 20:41:16 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%3F 20:41:46 trynottothinkaboutit trynottothinkaboutit 20:41:49 whew 20:41:59 `run echo test | paste 20:42:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32012 20:42:14 looks good 20:42:15 Sgeo: hi 20:42:17 Sgeo: also don't think about how the tachikoma work physically, etc 20:42:39 Bike: well python had a module for it, so it seemed the simplest clean solution 20:42:59 (as opposed to writing a regexp mess) 20:43:18 Sgeo: "If you're wondering how he eats or breathes, and other science facts, then repeat to yourself 'It's just a show, I should really just relax.'" 20:43:34 unfortunately it encoded also the : after http: which my browser didn't like, but fortunately it doesn't require a whole url. 20:43:40 *after http 20:44:38 oerjan: just encode the bit provided as an argument and append it to the unencoded prefix? 20:45:51 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:46:47 Bike: that's what i finally did 20:47:46 `run ls url* 20:47:48 url \ url.1 \ url.2 20:47:53 `run rm url* 20:47:57 No output. 20:48:32 * oerjan remembers fixing url was yak shaving for something 20:49:32 ...you changed ? to do ngevd implicitly? 20:49:40 I did nothing 20:49:42 `cat wisdom/ngevd 20:49:43 `run ls wisdom/n* 20:49:43 No output. 20:49:44 wisdom/natural transformation \ wisdom/ngevd \ wisdom/nooga \ wisdom/nortti \ wisdom/norway 20:49:50 what. 20:49:53 `run ls -lh wisdom/ngevd 20:49:54 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Jan 25 13:21 wisdom/ngevd 20:49:57 well that's stupid & someone should revert it 20:50:35 `? norway 20:50:37 `? ngevd 20:50:37 Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. 20:50:38 ​9VHƀ`JjAM<9|OO7;τ1:k47j.|YmA=H_F~$οizf䫴uj!!.#Mc? n\=M-fOHOV}L9KH#ɵyzXq:c77͜؍K \ :^'88eH]#w$K/POd&'Jg@lz\HV#yNUW9 elliott: well i guess someone got a bit fed up of having to make an exception for that whenever they did some command on all of wisdom/* 20:50:43 I like that viginette at the end (is that the right term?) 20:50:56 i should disable blinking :( 20:50:57 oerjan: that someone should perhaps stop running commands on all of wisdom/* 20:51:03 it's kind of the worst 20:51:05 kmc: you have blinking? lucky you. 20:51:13 kmc: *best 20:51:26 kmc: mosh feature request: double blink mode 20:51:37 doubletime? 20:51:57 elliott: um grep as well as combined pasting are things that get awkward because of it 20:52:16 oerjan: i don't think you appreciate the ngevd entry enough 20:52:32 elliott: feel free to revert it, i had nothing to do with it anyway 20:53:24 pfft as if i'd do work 20:53:45 `? welcome 20:53:46 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:55:50 i kind of want @PLT_SeinfeldToday 20:56:06 "What if Seinfeld were still on the air, and also about programming languages theory?" 20:56:35 kmc: make that + PLT_Marx 20:56:36 thanx 20:57:27 what if seinfeld was still on the air, and writing a book about the economic history of c++ implementations? 21:01:04 "Elaine dumps a guy after hearing him defend PHP. Kramer writes a monad tutorial." 21:02:12 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q 21:02:14 2013-01-25 21:02:13 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [338/338] -> "q" [1] 21:02:20 `run chmod a+x q 21:02:23 No output. 21:02:35 `./q elliott 21:02:37 ​[: 4: missing ] \ [: 4: missing ] \ elliott? ��\(��_o)/�� 21:02:46 ...sigh 21:03:09 `echo Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. 21:03:10 Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. 21:03:16 `echo Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. >wisdom/ngevd 21:03:17 Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. >wisdom/ngevd 21:03:30 coppro: what is the point of this. 21:03:35 oerjan: to get rid of the yuck 21:03:39 `? ngevd 21:03:41 ​4,y:Gu]~ 21:03:48 yes 21:04:03 and that was the first available text 21:05:24 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q 21:05:27 2013-01-25 21:05:25 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [338/338] -> "q.1" [1] 21:05:36 `run cat q.1 >q 21:05:39 No output. 21:05:43 `./q elliott 21:05:45 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? \ elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 21:05:50 fuck 21:06:02 `? elliott 21:06:04 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 21:06:11 `cat ./q 21:06:12 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ ([ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e wisdom/ngevd \) ] && cat /dev/urandom && exit 0; ) || [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] && cat "wisdom/$topic" || [ -e "wisdom/$topic1" ] && cat "wisdom/$topic1" || { echo "$1? ��\(��_o)/��"; exit 1; } 21:06:25 `q 21:06:27 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: q: not found 21:06:33 HEY NO PEEKING 21:06:57 `learn $1? ��\(��_o)/�� 21:07:01 I knew that. 21:07:27 kmc: one tweet and yet this account still doesn't exist 21:08:16 `? `learn 21:08:17 ​`learn? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:08:19 pikhq, are the dubs considered acceptable for Ghost in the Shell? 21:08:31 I've heard they're good. 21:08:32 So far, these episodes have seemed.... emotionless 21:08:44 I don't watch dubs though. 21:09:01 don't be so blasé about it 21:09:14 I think the dub was considered okay, but I preferred the japanese 21:09:23 the series really kicks into high gear around episode 4, where the story gets moving 21:11:13 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q 21:11:15 2013-01-25 21:11:14 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [352/352] -> "q.2" [1] 21:11:21 `run cat q.2 >q 21:11:25 No output. 21:11:26 `./q elliott 21:11:28 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 21:11:31 `./q elliotts 21:11:32 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 21:11:36 finally. 21:11:46 `run mv q bin/'?' 21:11:48 No output. 21:12:13 imo this q is about 0.1x as cool 21:12:22 why? 21:12:35 what if a thing is different from the plural of a thing!! 21:12:39 maybe there's lots you can write about ngevds 21:12:43 i'm just complaining though 21:12:46 it's what i do 21:13:44 elliott: um it will only use the singular if the plural doesn't exist. although i see a different problem... 21:14:39 `run ls wisdom/*s 21:14:41 wisdom/devious \ wisdom/d-modules \ wisdom/finns \ wisdom/friends \ wisdom/lens \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/monads \ wisdom/monoids \ wisdom/oceans \ wisdom/the us \ wisdom/united states 21:14:45 `? monoids 21:14:47 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 21:14:47 `? monoid 21:14:50 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 21:14:52 see? 21:15:21 Fiora, in the middle of episode 2, now it's starting to hold my interest 21:16:38 `? fnord 21:16:40 fnord? ��\(��_o)/�� 21:17:28 holy shit there's a south dakota? 21:19:04 oerjan: you realise the smiley is messed up btw 21:19:31 Yet still no East Virginia. 21:22:12 elliott: help me write a few more 21:22:29 elliott: yes, i forgot to fix the hg raw view's encoding before cutting and pasting 21:22:46 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/q 21:22:49 2013-01-25 21:22:48 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/q [364/364] -> "q" [1] 21:22:57 kmc: i think i have seen like one episode of seinfeld in my life 21:23:02 kmc: not sure whether this makes me more or less qualified 21:23:20 hm could be problematic 21:23:35 `run cat q >bin/'?' 21:23:38 No output. 21:23:46 `? elliotts 21:23:47 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 21:23:53 `? fnord 21:23:54 fnord? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:24:06 `? fnords 21:24:07 there you go 21:24:07 fnords? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:24:32 "George's new language is just Lisp with new syntax; he hopes nobody notices. Kramer gets kicked out of a talk by Rich Hickey." 21:24:37 `?hh fnords 21:24:39 ​/hackenv/bin/?hh: line 1: q: command not found 21:24:47 what the hell 21:24:52 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 21:25:03 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 21:25:03 -!- quintopia has joined. 21:25:11 `run ls q* 21:25:13 q \ q.1 \ q.2 \ quotes \ quotese \ \ quines: \ cat \ perl \ python \ ruby 21:25:15 how did i get 1'd 21:25:30 `run rm q{,.1,.2} 21:25:34 No output. 21:25:51 kmc: imo look to esolangs for inspiration 21:29:07 `cat bin/?hh 21:29:09 ​? "$@" | perl -pe 's/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig' 21:29:35 `?hh monads 21:29:37 Mohnahds ahre juhst mohnoihds ihn the cahtehgohry ohf ehndohfuhnctohrs. 21:29:42 `? monad 21:29:43 monads 21:29:52 ... 21:30:03 `run mv wisdom/monads wisdom/monad 21:30:06 No output. 21:30:11 `? monads 21:30:12 Seinfeld discovers a Brainfuck derivative that's supposed to look like one of his standup routines. George dates an APL programmer. (I have never seen seinfeld) 21:30:12 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 21:30:14 Naruto makes me laugh. GitS doesn't make me laugh. 21:30:30 `run ls wisdom/*s 21:30:31 wisdom/devious \ wisdom/d-modules \ wisdom/finns \ wisdom/friends \ wisdom/lens \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/monoids \ wisdom/oceans \ wisdom/the us \ wisdom/united states 21:30:41 `? d-modules 21:30:43 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 21:30:45 `? d-module 21:30:46 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 21:30:56 `rm wisdom/d-modules 21:30:59 No output. 21:31:02 `? d-module 21:31:03 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 21:31:12 `? finn 21:31:13 finn? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:31:35 `run mv wisdom/finns wisdom/finn 21:31:38 No output. 21:31:57 `? friend 21:31:59 friend? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:32:02 `? friends 21:32:03 Friends make graphs together / La la la la 21:32:32 okay 21:35:01 that'll be enough for now. 21:36:08 `run echo "The U are a very mad people." >wisdom/'the u' 21:36:11 No output. 21:36:32 it somehow seemed to fit 21:39:43 `? rhubarb 21:39:44 rhubarb? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:39:48 `learn Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, rhubarb: rhubarb rhubarb? Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb rhubarb. 21:39:51 I knew that. 21:42:33 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 21:43:40 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*Sgeo@*.dyn.optonline.net. 21:43:40 -!- oerjan has kicked Sgeo I'm sorry but this is apparently policy.. 21:43:42 -!- tromp has left ("Konversation terminated!"). 21:43:49 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*Sgeo@*.dyn.optonline.net. 21:43:54 -!- tromp has joined. 21:43:57 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 21:44:14 the policy is to kickban Sgeo? 21:44:17 that /knockout command seems nice 21:44:17 is oerjan logreading 21:44:20 monqy: yep 21:44:28 Running `h! wisdom/welcome gets you kickbanned from the channel. 21:44:29 for having bad opinions about anime or...? 21:44:32 oh dear 21:44:48 ahhh is that what happened to welcome 21:45:00 oh h! mutates in place? 21:45:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:45:54 i'm tempted to remove h! as i cannot quite see a non-obnoxious use 21:46:04 salt the earth 21:46:43 `run ls wisdom | paste 21:46:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19256 21:47:05 `? phantom____________________hoover 21:47:06 Your soundcard works perfectly. 21:47:20 excellent 21:47:25 `? phantom__________hoover 21:47:27 OK you got me there. 21:47:47 `? shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 21:47:48 shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:47:54 ????? 21:48:02 monqy: no f idea 21:48:08 * Sgeo has perfectly cromulent opinions about anime. 21:48:10 `cat wisdom/shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 21:48:11 cat: wisdom/shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.: No such file or directory 21:48:18 i dont understand 21:48:20 `cat wisdom/shachaf* 21:48:21 cat: wisdom/shachaf*: No such file or directory 21:48:22 `run cat wisdom/shachaf* 21:48:23 shachaf sprø som selleri \ shachaf spr som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 21:48:32 quality entry 21:48:35 let's keep it 21:48:56 ...what. 21:49:00 `? shachaf 21:49:01 shachaf sprø som selleri 21:49:21 `run ls wisdom/shachaf* 21:49:22 wisdom/shachaf \ wisdom/shachaf som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 21:49:35 oh hm... 21:49:58 there's an encoding mismatch 21:50:08 that's ok 21:50:12 it's beautiful as it is 21:50:19 *sigh* 21:50:27 embrace nonsense, oerjan 21:50:31 it's the best thing there is 21:51:35 `run ls wisdom/{shachaf*,ø} 21:51:36 wisdom/ø \ wisdom/shachaf \ wisdom/shachaf som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 21:51:51 `? misspellings of croissant 21:51:52 `run cd wisdom; mv shachaf*. shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 21:51:52 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:51:53 mv: target `weekends.' is not a directory 21:52:01 eek 21:52:09 `run cd wisdom; mv shachaf*. "shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends." 21:52:12 mv: target `shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends.' is not a directory 21:52:33 `run ls shachaf*. 21:52:33 ls: cannot access shachaf*.: No such file or directory 21:52:39 `run ls wisdom/shachaf*. 21:52:40 wisdom/shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. \ wisdom/shachaf som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 21:52:51 argh 21:53:02 jesus christ do it in a query 21:53:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:53:23 `? shachafø som selleri and cosplays nepeta leijon on weekends. 21:53:24 shachaf spr som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 21:53:37 `? footnote 8 21:53:38 Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 21:54:33 oerjan: btw i am pretty sure that entry is actually meant to be called "shachaf" 21:54:44 FANCY 21:55:42 `run rm wisdom/shachaf?* 21:55:46 No output. 21:55:53 `learn shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 21:55:56 I knew that. 21:56:08 `? shachaf 21:56:09 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 21:58:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:01:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:03:49 "George learns Ruby just to prove he isn't old. Kramer passes off Bob Sacamano's opinions about Haskell as his own." 22:06:47 `run ls 22:06:49 bin \ bluh \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 22:06:52 `run rm bluh 22:06:55 No output. 22:08:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:08:56 korma? o_O 22:08:58 `run ls korma 22:09:00 No output. 22:09:05 `run ls -dh korma 22:09:06 korma 22:09:14 `run ls -dl korma 22:09:15 drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 4096 Jan 24 12:51 korma 22:09:17 oo. 22:09:26 `run ls 22:09:27 bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ korma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 22:10:33 Maybe some Canadians in here (coppro?) might know if the Canadian law includes the calculation for Easter? 22:12:23 Easter and Good Friday are already statutory holidays but if they are without having a calculation as the part of the Canadian laws, then we don't have separation of church and state, and I think separation of church and state is a good idea. 22:14:00 `file korma 22:14:01 korma: directory 22:14:13 `ls korma 22:14:14 No output. 22:14:20 oh right 22:14:24 so you think that saying "easter is whenever the church calendar says it is" is showing a preference to that religion? 22:14:59 quintopia: Yes. Including a calculation in the Canadian law, which happens to result in the same days all the time, though, is better I think. 22:15:08 do you think that including in the same law "ramadan is whenever the church calendar says it is" makes the government partial to two relgions? 22:15:33 wouldn't the core problem be having a religious holiday be government-recognized at all 22:15:45 the church calendar says nothing about ramadan hth 22:15:53 quintopia: it only matters if ramadan (or some holiday calculated from it like eid) is a civil holiday too 22:15:56 oerjan: yeah i know, it was an example 22:15:58 which easter is 22:16:10 kmc: hypothetical 22:16:14 Although it may be a religious holiday, it is in this case, a statutory holiday rather than a religious one, even if it happens to be on the same date. 22:16:28 (And being on the same date I think is not a bad idea, though) 22:16:41 since different churches do not agree on when easter is, if canadian law does not specify the calculation, it might have to say which church is right 22:16:48 and theres no issue with having a secular holiday on the same date as a religious one 22:16:57 for instance, christmas is already this way 22:17:03 like how lee-jackson day just happened to be on the same day as the federally recognized martin luther king day 22:17:16 It uses the Roman church rather than the Orthodox one I think 22:17:19 Bike: yeah wtf 22:17:29 Bike: wow 22:17:30 quintopia: Yes, but Christmas is always on December 25 so that is easier! 22:17:33 * Bike is still pissed at Virginia, can you tell 22:17:34 quintopia: yes but christmas is just specified in law as Dec 25, isn't it? 22:17:35 kmc: well, i dont think it should be a problem, since easter is on sunday, which is already not a work day 22:17:35 In 1983, the holiday was merged with the new federal holiday Martin Luther King, Jr. Day as Lee-Jackson-King Day in Virginia. This merge was reverted in 2000. 22:17:50 the problem is delegating to the church the decision over when exactly the civil holiday is 22:17:57 :t ident 22:17:58 Not in scope: `ident' 22:18:00 kmc: Yes, that is precisel 22:18:05 kmc: Yes, that is precisely what I meant. 22:18:32 elliott: i know about this because the colbert report mentioned the republicans in the virginia legislature gerrymandering on mlk day, and then going to recess "to honor Jackson" or suchlike 22:18:36 :t Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Language.ident 22:18:38 Not in scope: `Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Language.ident' 22:18:42 quintopia: in Canada the Friday before (Western) Easter is a civil holiday 22:18:53 kmc: but what if the law says simply "the civil holiday will fall on the day given by the calculation that church x used in the year this was passed into law" 22:18:58 then the church isnt deciding 22:19:09 and the rule for picking the day isnt explicitly in the law 22:19:09 quintopia: then that would be an affirmative answer to zzo38's original question 22:19:13 @hoogle ident 22:19:14 Text.Read.Lex Ident :: String -> Lexeme 22:19:14 Text.Read Ident :: String -> Lexeme 22:19:14 Control.Monad.Identity module Control.Monad.Identity 22:19:19 of whether the Canadian law includes the calculation for Easter 22:19:23 it can include by reference 22:19:25 tromp: what's that supposed to do? 22:19:31 Because it is the days it is, I think it should remain that way (chainging it would mess up things), but I also think that the law should copy the calculation used to determine when the day is, or use an equivalent one, rather than delegating it to the church, even if the past reference. 22:19:46 oops; i meant identifier :( 22:19:49 :t identifier 22:19:51 Not in scope: `identifier' 22:20:00 i believe in you tromp 22:20:11 zzo38: it is simply defined as "Easter Monday" 22:20:31 @hoogle identifier 22:20:32 Text.Parsec.Token identifier :: GenTokenParser s u m -> ParsecT s u m String 22:20:32 Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Token identifier :: GenTokenParser s u m -> ParsecT s u m String 22:20:32 Text.Html identifier :: String -> HtmlAttr 22:20:49 i don't think lambdabot imports Parsec stuff 22:21:15 unrelatedly, aaronson thinks quantum computers will mostly be used for simulating quantum physics. huh 22:21:20 this reminds me of a court case where the US Supreme Court decided that it was unlawful for the City of Cambridge to give churches the right to veto liquor licenses in their area, even though the City would be allowed to veto such licenses unconditionally 22:21:55 presumably the City can solicit non-binding advice from neighbors too, but I don't know exactly where the line is drawn 22:21:58 Bike: does that really count as a simulation :P 22:21:59 Bike: huh 22:22:03 elliott: yes 22:22:04 hth 22:22:09 metacircular evaluator for quantum physics 22:22:36 if i simulate moniac on moniac does it really count as simulation, or just sloshing a bunch of water around masturbatorially? 22:22:41 i could use a computer made of relays to simulate a ball rolling down a hill 22:22:47 classical mechanics simulating classical mechanics 22:22:50 still a simulation 22:23:10 oh he has a picture from Spy vs Spy on his slides 22:23:11 yes but when it gets to using the ~quantum essence~ to simulate the ~quantum parts~ then that seems sort of close to just using eval 22:23:14 disclaimer 22:23:15 I know nothing 22:23:16 a quantum computer might use states of trapped ions or whatever to simulate some totally unrelated quantum system 22:23:17 good representation of the crypto community imo 22:23:32 i.e. anything 22:23:54 but can we use one to make http://qntm.org/responsibility come true 22:23:54 coppro: And that is what I am opposed to; I would like to propose a law which includes the calculation for Easter, to avoid this. Simply defining it as "Easter Monday" without saying what that means, is also ambiguous, too, anyways. (There are more than one way to calculate Easter which results in the same thing, so you don't necessarily have to use the same one the Church does, to arrive at the same result) 22:24:03 elliott: well, simulating quantum physics means you need a shitload of complex reals. that's just way easier with qubits than with bits (or "Bits Classic(TM)") 22:24:12 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:24:12 there are some strange holidays in japan 22:24:26 Abandon easter altogether 22:24:36 elliott: i think we'd need a CTC for that 22:24:54 actually no, that only just makes NP-complete problems easy, not turing-complete ones 22:24:56 that computer is logically inconsistent, isn't it 22:25:04 Just have a holiday on the first monday of april or something 22:25:21 Phantom_Hoover: logical trivialism is the future bro 22:25:22 FreeFull: I do not think we should change the holidays like that. 22:25:28 nobody has proven that you can use qunatum computers to solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time 22:25:31 !! 22:25:38 kmc: with a CTC, I mean, not just quantum 22:25:39 (Still, if I did want to change the holidays, I would rather change them to the solstices and equinoxes) 22:25:42 oh 22:25:46 i don't know about those 22:25:52 also hasn't the converse of that been proven 22:25:57 Phantom_Hoover: that doesn't matter 22:26:03 what matters is getting people in #esoteric to read more sam hughes 22:26:08 converse? 22:26:10 yeah, that's a good thing to matter. 22:26:12 kmc: speaking of which did you read fine structure 22:26:17 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:26:18 what's the converse of an equality 22:26:20 elliott: no 22:26:25 Fiora: errrrr the negation? that quantum computers can't solve NP-complete problems in P-time 22:26:25 Inequality? 22:26:29 i got someone to read fine structure a while back 22:26:31 coequality? 22:26:35 pay up, sam 22:26:39 i'm shit at logic man :( 22:26:41 I don't think that's true 22:26:45 that would imply P != NP 22:26:52 it would? 22:26:58 BQP is a superset of P 22:27:02 oh, well then. 22:27:05 ah right 22:27:11 Fiora: it is not proved, but it is believed to be true 22:27:13 saying "quantum computers can't solve NP-complete problems in P time" is saying BQP != NP 22:27:18 yeah, sorry, that's what I meant 22:27:19 Quantum computers might be able to solve NP-complete problems in P-time, but just as much as classical computers? 22:27:24 anyway i am watching this: http://videolectures.net/nips2012_aaronson_quantum_information/ 22:27:26 I'm not sure if that's true either? 22:27:34 FreeFull: sure, if P = NP then that's the case 22:27:35 I'm not sure if it's possible for BQP = NP but P != BQP 22:27:35 it's not really about complexity 22:27:38 kmc: imo you suck 22:27:41 imo no 22:27:45 kmc: the key word is might 22:27:50 just aaronson explaining quantum computing to machine learning nerds and by extension me 22:28:32 "A QC has factored 21 into 3×7, with high probability" 22:28:35 Fiora: i think it might also be possible for P = NP but P != BQP 22:28:42 kmc: imo yes 22:28:47 iirc 22:29:03 wait, how oculd that be? I thought BQP >= P 22:29:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BQP_complexity_class_diagram.svg 22:29:17 BQP is a superset of P but not necessarily a proper superest? 22:29:19 superset* 22:29:19 yes, but not necessarily BQP <= NP 22:29:24 Yeah 22:29:32 but if P = NP, then that means BQP >= NP 22:29:43 since BQP cnotains P.. 22:29:45 right? 22:29:48 all of these fit between P and PSPACE, which are not known to be unequal 22:29:50 i feel like a small animal dies every time you notate set relations like that 22:29:58 gah, my keyboard doen't have set icons on it okay :< 22:30:05 me neither i'm just a jerk 22:30:11 at least use <=/=> 22:30:17 wait 22:30:18 no that sucks 22:30:19 that's stupid 22:30:44 I guess I'm using >= as superset, == as equivalent, <= as subset 22:30:51 -!- comex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:30:55 aaronson also says the "prevailing belief" is that NP is not a subset of BQP, so 22:31:02 things I like: <= on booleans is implication 22:31:04 sometimes notated => 22:31:09 i hate you elliott 22:31:14 Bike: :) 22:31:21 hate 22:31:27 what's wrong with "->" :( 22:31:29 > (<=) <$> [False, True] <*> [False, True] 22:31:30 Bike: yeah, I figure that too 22:31:31 [True,True,False,True] 22:31:39 sometimes you have to notate limits 22:31:42 and functions 22:32:04 Bike: imo the solution is to use -> as a comparison operator for all data 22:32:06 what the heck are you doing that you need to notate function types, limits, and prop logic at the same time 22:32:07 meaning <= 22:32:11 and can i get in on it 22:32:27 wait, this is that homomorphic type theory mumbojumbo, innit 22:32:36 errrr homotopy. 22:32:53 what is 22:33:03 the nonsense i just said 22:33:17 -!- derk_ has joined. 22:33:32 oh he mentions grover's algorithm again. that shit is so crazy. craaaaazy 22:33:34 You can also use /= for logical XOR in Haskell. 22:33:35 i wish i knew what homotopy type theory was all about 22:33:53 Bike: something involving curry-howard and CPO denotational semantics, i bet 22:34:00 horrifying 22:34:30 oerjan: do you know 22:34:49 whatever it is i assume it's totally divorced from what homotopy originally meant 22:35:03 nah they're all about that homotopy shit 22:35:05 all up in it 22:36:19 "On some fitness landscapes, the adiabatic algorithm can reach a global minimum exponentially faster than classical simulated annealing. But on other landscapes, it does the same or even worse." :( 22:36:48 -!- comex has joined. 22:37:14 Phantom_Hoover: In mathematical logic and computer science, homotopy type theory (HoTT) attempts to give an account of the semantics of intensional type theory using the framework of (abstract) homotopy theory, in particular Quillen model categories and weak factorization systems. Conversely, intensional type theory forms a logic (internal language) for homotopy theory. 22:37:26 Phantom_Hoover: Homotopy Type Theory refers to a new interpretation of Martin-Löf’s system of intensional, constructive type theory into abstract homotopy theory. Propositional equality is interpreted as homotopy and type isomorphism as homotopy equivalence. Logical constructions in type theory then correspond to homotopy-invariant constructions on spaces, while theorems and even proofs in the logical system inherit a homotopical meaning. As th 22:37:34 thanks 22:40:18 Phantom_Hoover: seriously if you figure out what it means 22:40:19 let me know 22:40:54 well uh 22:41:25 suffice to say that categories are probably involved 22:41:47 -_- 22:42:12 yes my paste mentioned category theory in the bit that got cut off in fact 22:42:43 wasn't homotopy the original motivation for category theory 22:43:15 oh 22:43:19 that was homology 22:43:50 wait is it homology or homotopy that's relatively easy to understand 22:44:18 no 22:44:46 what's that branch of mathematics that's named after some tropical location 22:44:49 for no good reason 22:44:59 or something 22:45:22 this presentation has sadly little to do with neuroscience :( 22:45:58 also he's talking about quantum DRM 22:46:06 "don't worry, it's not going to be practical for a long time" 22:46:21 Bike: what am i thinking of 22:46:22 oerjan: you too 22:46:39 elliott we all know you have a bad track record with small islands 22:47:22 oh there he's talking about biology. forty goddamn minutes in 22:48:00 Bike: you mean the best track record 22:48:14 oerjan: do you know <-- would i bet if i knew 22:50:36 when i google "mathematics tropic island" i get a bunch of "adventure time" stuff. 22:53:44 i think homotopy is relatively easy to get the basic definitions, but iiuc it gets even worse than homology when you want to prove things. although homology is also homotopy-invariant. 22:54:25 Bike: maybe it wasn't named after an island 22:54:35 "my friends in the singularity movement" NOOOOO 22:55:10 It's impossible to have a mystery when you don't know what sort of technology can exist 22:55:18 *mystery story 22:55:20 THAT'S THE MYSTERY 22:55:36 There's no way for people to guess what sort of unintroduced technology could be behind it 22:56:05 elliott: well given how mathematics has mostly been white europeans for the last few centuries i'm not sure why they'd name something after a large nation and not just their vacation spot, i guess :/ 22:56:35 Bike: i think it might have literally been named after the beach whoever it was came up with it on or something 22:56:36 `quote singularitarians 22:56:37 690) I had a dream last night where I got hit by a van but the van had a brain uploader in it and I was uploaded and I angsted because I was stuck spending eternity with singularitarians? 22:56:39 argh this is going to drive me crazy 22:56:46 elliott: that's pretty great 22:56:59 Phantom_Hoover: thanks, my nightmares weren't bad enough 22:57:29 ok does wikipedia have a list of fields of mathematics 22:57:33 i can do this 22:57:45 It was honestly worse than the dream where there was a nuclear war when we were driving to ireland so we drove to some dreary fallout shelter. 22:57:50 dammit 22:57:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_mathematics_topics 22:57:52 there are too many 22:58:06 "shut the fuck up mathematicians, i'm trying to find your goddamn beach!" 22:58:06 And then I looked up the world map on Wikipedia and all the continents were cut up 22:58:12 Mathematics can, broadly speaking, be subdivided into the study of quantity, structure, space, and change (i.e. arithmetic, algebra, geometry, and analysis). 22:58:17 s/ $// 22:58:21 that's pretty fuckin broad 22:58:22 this seems a bit... woefully incomplete 22:58:27 well 22:58:37 i guess CS would go under arithmetic 22:58:38 the non-parenthesised list is hopelessly vague 22:58:41 the parenthesised one seems hopelessly limited 22:58:49 like where do foundations even go in there 22:58:56 algebra probably? 22:59:00 I guess you can argue for mathematics only being a subset of logic 22:59:07 sure, if you're a jerk 22:59:39 And don't get what the focus of study is. 22:59:47 Bike: well I like doing that because it lets you slot CS in!! 23:00:03 is CS even really part of logic in any meaningful sense 23:00:11 i mean in "the hierarchy" 23:00:16 except it's kind of all over the place so it doesn't work 23:00:19 i already hate this idea 23:00:32 the wikipedia article for mathematics does not contain the string "type theory". clearly injustice 23:00:38 Mathematics (from Greek μάθημα máthēma, "knowledge, study, learning") is the abstract study of topics encompassing quantity,[2] structure,[3] space,[2] change,[4][5] and other properties;[6] it has no generally accepted definition.[7][8] 23:00:39 fight the mathiarchy 23:00:46 There was a fairly convincing article I read a while ago arguing that the thing that mathematicians actually do is basically a science. 23:00:47 "what is mathematics?" "well nobody knows" 23:00:52 what are birds 23:01:05 Phantom_Hoover: is "science" very well defined......... 23:01:08 deep-cover dinosaurs 23:01:12 wikipedia is surer of what art is than mathematics 23:01:15 impressive 23:01:18 is anything well-defined?? 23:01:45 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Art-portrait-collage_2.jpg pictured: art 23:02:06 that's about as broad as you could hope for, really 23:02:13 Bike, is well-defined well-defined. 23:02:33 maybe throw in something abstract, like that thing at the nearby museum that's literally a featureless black cube made of fiberglass and foam. 23:03:13 the dog in the bottom-left looks totes miserable 23:03:15 (i know it's not a dog) 23:03:16 one of the questions is "do you think you'd need real random numbers and not just a PRNG to make an AI". X_X 23:03:21 not really relevant but ianucci: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InD_IGwkXiE 23:03:30 Phantom_Hoover: you're blowing my mind here, man. 23:03:58 this guy is a machine learning specialist. why are you saying this. you are better than this. 23:04:16 ok the answer involves futurama 23:04:18 is he? 23:04:19 lecture redeemed 23:04:31 i thought he was just the writer of i'm alan partridge and the thick of it 23:05:35 don't forget Time Trumpet 23:06:02 and Veep (which is a bit like a US remake of TToI) 23:06:27 amusingly i have never seen ttoi or alan partridge 23:06:35 well 23:06:38 you should see TToI 23:07:01 i said i liked ianucci to a guy i know and he was like "wait you haven't seen the thick of it? but you're scottish!" 23:07:51 stt.hs:81:12: 23:07:51 Ambiguous occurrence `liftF' 23:07:51 It could refer to either `Control.Monad.Free.liftF', 23:07:51 imported from `Control.Monad.Free' at stt.hs:20:1-25 23:07:54 or `Control.Monad.Trans.Free.liftF', 23:07:56 imported from `Control.Monad.Trans.Free' at stt.hs:21:1-31 23:07:59 uuuugh 23:08:09 Control.Monad.Trans.Fat.Free 23:10:15 @remember kmc Control.Monad.Trans.Fat.Free 23:10:19 @remember kmc Control.Monad.Trans.Fat.Free 23:10:20 Good to know. 23:12:29 @quote Control.Monad 23:12:29 EvilTerran says: if three of those lines aren't import Control.Monad; import Control.Arrow; import Control.Applicative;, you can make it shorter ;] 23:12:57 phooeyT 23:12:57 :: Monad m => 23:12:57 (((f (FreeT f m c) -> m c) -> FreeT f m c -> m c) 23:12:57 -> f (FreeT f m c) -> m c) 23:12:57 -> FreeT f m c -> m c 23:13:00 kmc: help 23:13:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 23:22:37 -!- augur has joined. 23:26:00 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 23:27:58 -!- asiekierka has joined. 23:42:15 Am I likely to get confused if I alternate between two animes every episode? 23:42:22 So one episode of Naruto one of GitS etc? 23:42:55 yes its due to the fundamental propertys of anime 23:43:29 yeah you'll run into decoherence issues 23:44:24 watching more than 1 episodic tv series simultaneously? madness, i say 23:45:07 Phantom_Hoover: no its just anime 23:45:48 but animes are mad 23:46:15 it's all tentacles and children, i hear 23:47:15 hey sometimes people explode into blood and/or robots 23:50:59 robots made of blood? 23:52:18 no, people made of robots. 23:53:33 and blood? 23:53:37 yes. 23:54:37 tentacled children, check 23:55:11 *tentacled robot children exploding, check 23:56:52 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:21 actually, tentacled robots exploding children. we're maximizing squick here. 23:57:39 dude i loved evangelion!! 23:58:13 -!- augur has joined. 23:58:25 i just accurately described that, didn't i. 23:58:54 maybe i should watch some of this anime thing sometime 23:59:02 sadly that would be giving ground to elliott 23:59:43 the SNP would kill you 23:59:51 the english invention of "anime" 2013-01-26: 00:01:16 kmc: What were you doing with it? 00:02:42 monoids monoids monoids 00:02:46 so easy i can hardly stand it 00:02:48 elliott, look i'm not going to let you off with not watching farscape 00:03:09 farscape is on my list man 00:03:13 also I've seen like 3 epsiodes 00:03:16 don't shoot me 00:03:19 I am a fearful english pansy 00:04:23 3 episodes?? the second 2 are so naff! 00:04:37 I think they were like half way through 00:04:41 and that's a fact and that's a fact and that's a fact and that's a fact 00:04:42 or the last ones or something 00:05:03 oh my god you can't just watch halfway through! 00:05:13 and that's a fact 00:05:35 Sgeo: hi 00:05:39 Phantom_Hoover: it was on tv ok 00:05:42 Phantom_Hoover: I had nothing better to watch 00:05:58 well duh 00:06:06 elliott, hi. And that's a fact. 00:06:40 Ghost in the Shell is getting to me 00:06:50 clearly 00:06:58 it must be one of those langford things 00:06:59 hee hee. glad you're enjoying it ^^ 00:08:01 3 separate characters have said "and that's a fact" in maybe 5 (or fewer) narrative minutes. 00:08:17 wait, are you watching GitS or Brass Eye 00:08:26 Ghost in the Shell 00:08:53 hm. there should be a brass eye special set in wherever gits was. 00:08:59 `?hh shachaf 00:09:04 shahchahf sprø sohm sehllehri ahnd cohsplayhs Nehpehta Leihjohn ohn weehkehnds. 00:09:17 Could I pet a lion on weekends instead? 00:09:18 nehpehta 00:09:26 shachaf: with what 00:09:35 with his cosplay'd paw 00:09:48 Paw? 00:09:57 I thought all those people didn't have hands or any hand-alikes. 00:10:33 hands are _so_ last evolutionary stage 00:10:35 her name's Leijon, she's probably a lion. 00:12:52 are we talking about the spidermouthed one? 00:14:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:16:37 * Sgeo shoosh paps Phantom_Hoover 00:16:57 get off me you weirdo 00:17:34 :33 < *ac pounces on sgeo* 00:22:07 Fiora: Hey now! 00:22:25 Get your own personoid thing. 00:23:04 Shachaf is the Nepeta here, Fiora. You'll have to be Eridan. 00:23:14 no, wait, gamzee's your symbol, right 00:23:31 :33 < *ac is pawsitively upset that someone has tailken her identity* 00:24:01 bloody furriners 00:24:11 :33 < i will not be eridan!! he is supurr cr33py and makes me uncomfurtable to be near him! 00:24:33 I'm sorry, but rules are rules. 00:25:38 :33 < could you help meowt here and change them? 00:26:04 `qdbformat 00:26:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qdbformat: not found 00:26:10 `? qdbformat 00:26:11 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 00:26:38 `cat bin/? 00:26:40 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ if [ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e wisdom/ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; exit 0; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic"; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic1" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic1"; \ else ec 00:27:48 `? ngevd 00:27:50 ​^՟`)l~uN>6K'a6ED W<2]1y8/!'U@ܓgǚ_4W݈>؏)jg"uw%x7Ft`.-80hG0Ź3ۚ/SU!X \ Ihn3H5nP:Yb,nMgC3Zugs-Dϔh..#@ݦ.U񃉊tէbVO+bT<&e?FPhK˄*KڶBW6IT*ӫ"-Ќ~co)~ 00:27:56 pretty colors 00:27:58 `?hh ngevd 00:27:59 ​1;|?:O4CzA \ {69oW[W4v6)Ϝx.b6 imo a bihg improhvehmehnt 00:29:16 Fiora: What person-thing does *that* typing quirk make me? 00:31:38 `run sed -i 's/ exit 0;//' bin/'?' 00:31:49 No output. 00:31:56 `cat bin/? 00:31:57 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ if [ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e wisdom/ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic"; \ elif [ -e "wisdom/$topic1" ]; \ then cat "wisdom/$topic1"; \ else echo "$1? 00:32:09 `? ngevd 00:32:10 ​upU%V.MU65HY)JV9-F#E].aF.M4(..|9 00:32:26 shachaf: ? @_@ 00:32:51 Fiora: as in, what troll talks with all the h's. 00:33:03 thahnk you Bihke 00:33:12 nhp 00:33:23 `?hh Bike 00:33:25 Hs? I just see a bunch of random noise 00:33:26 Bihke ihs frohm Luhxehmbouhrg. 00:33:29 `?hh Fiora 00:33:31 Fiohra ihs frohm sohme ihslahnd sohmewhehre. She juhst doehsn't wahnt to be bohthehrehd, ahs she wohrks ouht hehr dohmihnahtiohn plahn ahs ihmmohrtahl queehn ohf the drahgohns. 00:33:34 `wehlcohme Fiora 00:33:34 oh... 00:33:36 Fiohra: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 00:33:44 ihmmohrtahl 00:36:41 FUHS RHOH-DHAH 00:37:34 `?hh Jafet 00:37:36 Jahfeht? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:37:43 `? jafet 00:37:45 What's going on? 00:37:46 jafet? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:38:30 `? funpuns 00:38:31 funpuns? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:49:32 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:52:16 Gah GHCi 6.12.1 00:52:18 :( 00:55:51 gwat? 00:57:12 Glahsghow Hashkehl 00:58:22 ohkay 01:01:40 I read about the SQLite file format of columns, and of ALTER TABLE ... ADD COLUMN ... command which can add a column but with various restrictions, and not affecting the data already in the table, but if you add a row where the rightmost columns will have the constant default values will it omit them? 01:42:05 -!- Ahhrc_Koehhn has quit (Quit: Ahhrc_Koehhn). 01:50:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:20 -!- augur has joined. 01:52:51 -!- derk_ has left. 01:55:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:56:31 How can you even run PRAGMA commands in SQLite before the database is created? 01:58:23 -!- augur has joined. 02:00:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:25 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:00:32 Is the Facebook Hacker's Cup thing likely to look good on resumes even if I don't get first place? 02:00:46 -!- augur has joined. 02:00:55 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:09:03 i would put it on, if you reached any level above "also ran" 02:09:21 i mean I don't know if there are rounds or divisions or whatever but placing at any level sounds pretty good 02:09:44 There are sponges that eat crustaceans. 02:09:51 however you shouldn't include it if it's taking up space that could be used to list more relevant or impressive stuff 02:10:01 remember, the resume is an advertisement about you, designed to get you a phone call 02:10:33 it doesn't need to be comprehensive 02:11:27 i would say that any significant work or software project experience beats coding competitions 02:11:43 the code you write for competitions is usually not good code, maintainable code, readable code 02:11:52 and it's not the same kind of code an employer wants you to write 02:13:26 also in my current view of programming and hacker culture, i have a pretty negative view of coding competitions 02:13:32 but i've done them in the past and enjoyed them so *shrug* 02:14:33 lately i've been enjoying a lot of games where there are levels and you try to beat the next level but you're not directly playing against other people 02:14:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:15:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:19:33 These competitions look interesting: http://azspcs.net/ 02:20:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:20:29 i do love the IOCCC though and I do want to run my own devious code contest 02:20:38 i'm not sure how to square that with my other statement 02:22:03 (The current competition is, apparently, an open problem.) 02:22:04 what about the underhanded thing? 02:22:09 what about it 02:22:27 in terms of devious code contests I guess 02:22:37 you mean http://underhanded.xcott.com/ ? 02:22:43 it's neat 02:22:48 it's dead for 3 years :/ 02:22:54 also what I want to run would be a lot more open ended 02:23:22 rather than a specific task I would just be interested to see code (in any language) that appears to straightforwardly do one thing but actually does a different devious thing 02:23:26 there are a few IOCCC entries like that too 02:23:59 that sounds fun 02:24:35 The underhanded C contest probably hit a bit too close to home. 02:25:21 while C may be the king of unintended security holes, I think every language has its own unique & interesting ways to hide behavior 02:26:12 Writing underhanded code contest entries is a lot like making CTF levels, I suppose. 02:26:15 Opening the contest to multiple languages and genres will make judging hard 02:26:30 yes 02:27:53 shachaf: some CTF levels anyway 02:28:11 i'm not that interested in an 'underhanded' program which is just, like, a HTTP server with a buffer overflow 02:28:16 i can already find plenty of those 02:28:36 Sure. 02:28:54 I'm thinking of the more specialized ones. 02:30:09 Actually, not many CTF levels I've seen have been particularly "obviously correct". 02:30:14 I'm imagining, like, an image processing program that reads an image, but actually executes part of the image as code when reading it 02:30:21 by sneakily smashing its own stack or something 02:30:27 It's more that they've had obvious bugs but the trick was how to exploit those bugs. 02:30:40 shachaf: yeah, it varies 02:31:17 the one using negative chars to index an array was non-obvious, to me, but maybe this is a vuln class that most other people know about 02:32:44 i also like code that looks safe but is actually dangerous due to compiler optimizations 02:33:46 Fiora: that's easy, just require the image processing program to read metafile 02:34:27 (A metafile image consists of a sequence of Windows GDI function calls.) 02:34:38 haha brilliant 02:34:42 wow, does it really 02:36:05 "Essentially, a WMF file stores a list of function calls that have to be issued to the Windows Graphics Device Interface (GDI) layer to display an image on screen." 02:37:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:37:52 windows never meta file it didn't like 02:47:00 monoids monoids monoids monoids monoids 02:47:05 the easiest thing in the world 02:47:11 I wanted to use SQLite amalgamation but maybe it doesn't work; I want to use the following options: SQLITE_OMIT_AUTHORIZATION SQLITE_OMIT_BLOB_LITERAL SQLITE_OMIT_DEPRECATED SQLITE_OMIT_EXPLAIN SQLITE_OMIT_FLOATING_POINT SQLITE_OMIT_INTEGRITY_CHECK SQLITE_OMIT_TRACE SQLITE_OMIT_UTF16 SQLITE_OMIT_UNICODE 02:47:25 However, there is already the problem, since there is no SQLITE_OMIT_UNICODE. 02:47:28 SQLITE_OMIT_DATABASE 02:47:51 zzo38: You shouldn't omit Unicode. 02:48:53 SQLITE_OMIT_FRAME_POINTER 02:49:44 `?hh sqlite 02:49:46 sqlihte? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:49:47 `?hh kmc 02:49:48 kmc? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:50:33 `learn kmc ran the Internation Devious Code Contest of 2013 02:50:36 I knew that. 02:50:39 `learn kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013 02:50:40 http://noctis-aeterna.tumblr.com/post/41490130158/ heh, dailywtfish thing on my dash 02:50:43 I knew that. 02:50:57 shachaf: But I want to omit Unicode because I am not using those functions and just want length to be the C strlen function instead, and so on. 02:51:08 zzo38: You should use Unicode. 02:51:56 Fiora: What's the "æterna" thing? 02:52:22 um, just a person I follow 02:52:33 I thought that was you. 02:52:54 fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/ 02:53:05 Yes. The common theme is "æterna". 02:53:11 that is a total coincidence 02:53:15 Oh. 02:53:16 she is the only person I follow with that 02:53:21 (I can't resist turning "ae" into "æ".) 02:53:29 I'm too lazy to even try typing that >.> 02:53:34 It's just AltGr-z 02:53:54 altgr? 02:54:16 its the angry version of the alt key 02:54:26 It's the German version, actually. 02:54:37 germans are angry 02:54:45 Fiora: Set your keyboard layout to "altgr-intl" or something. 02:54:53 It's the future. 02:55:26 alt-z just makes a z 02:55:27 You can type important words like "hellørjan" with ease! 02:55:27 But I don't want it with Unicode. I want it to treat it as C strings, without having to check every byte to see how to calculate length and so on. 02:55:45 Just use UCS-2.625 02:55:51 Fiora: altgr is right alt in certain keyboard layouts, like us international (but apparently not yours) 02:56:03 right alt just does the same 02:56:18 What is UCS-2.625? 02:56:19 I heard that if your right alt key isn't AltGr, it makes you racist. 02:56:26 yes, because you have a different keyboard layout 02:56:37 default american layouts often don't have altgr. 02:56:37 zzo38: Storing 3 21-bit Unicode code points in one 64-bit word. 02:56:52 um, I don't know what my main layout is but the alternate one is a japanese IME 02:57:08 Are you using X11? 02:57:15 It's probably just "US" or something on Windows. 02:57:15 ummmm I'm using windows 02:57:32 You can switch pretty easily with the control panel, especially if you've done it before for japanese. 02:57:52 Oh. 02:58:00 I'm not sure Windows has the right layout by default? 02:58:11 windows usually uses some boring american one, yeah. 02:58:17 shachaf: But I want to diable Unicode entirely. (So that, UTF-8 text could still be stored in the database, but the program ignores it, and those fields may be used by other programs though.) 02:58:21 instead of the slightly less boring american one that is US-international. 02:58:48 zzo38: Just store things as binary blobs. 02:59:00 US-international with deadkeys is evil!!!!!!!!!!!!! 02:59:30 shachaf: Well yes, I could store them as blob formats but then it isn't used with SQL strings and null-terminated strings and so on. 03:00:59 Anyways, UTF-8 can be up to 36-bits (even though Unicode is only 21-bits), in case 21-bits is not enough. 03:02:32 Actually if 0xFF is also defined then maybe you can have more than 36-bits 03:04:10 But if you don't use Unicode, how can I use Chinese text? 03:06:15 This specific program I am making is not meant for Chinese text, as it wouldn't be useful in what I am making. (You can still store Chinese text in the database, though, if you want to use the same database with other programs.) 03:09:00 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 03:11:40 In some other programs I may make, you might want to use Chinese texts and so on, though. So, in a later version of TeXnicard I plan to add an option for UTF-8, but only decoding into 32-bit numbers (even beyond range of Unicode), ignoring everything else about Unicode and requiring the template file to have stuff to deal with the ones you are using. 03:24:19 でも、中国語のテキストがとても必要な事! 03:24:43 是非大切さが最高! 03:25:04 それ日本語やんけw 03:25:29 zzo38: Why do you hate the Chinese? That's racist. 03:25:40 "w" 03:25:43 うん。俺中国語分からん。 03:25:52 Bike: Japanese "lol". 03:25:52 同じく。 03:25:59 wwwwwwwwwwww 03:26:06 っるっせw 03:26:06 Precisely. 03:30:29 Lumpio-: I don't hate the Chinese. 03:30:40 wu america 03:33:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:41:32 Naruto treats copying an opponents moves exactly as a good thing. But in Go, there are ways to defeat an opponent who attempts that 03:42:17 You're reading naruto? 03:42:51 Watching 03:42:56 oh 03:43:04 From the start? 03:43:53 yes 03:44:48 I watched it when it came out, and man it was sslooooowww 03:45:40 It's like, "Episode 14: Clash on the Bridge!! Exciting Battle!!!" and the episode consists of characters surrounded by mist, not being able to see anything, and contemplating their next strategy out loud for 23 minutes. 03:46:29 That's the thing that bothers me, the continuous contemplation and exposition out loud, in front of enemies, wasting time 03:46:47 (As in, the enemy should be killing them. Or if the enemy is talking, they should be killing the enemy) 03:47:01 But they can't kill anyone if it's not their turn. Never played a JRPG? 03:48:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:48:48 Anyways when you get bored of that, get some deep and philosophical anime meant for adults like K-on 03:48:59 sgeo, it's almost like they have an animation budget. 03:50:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:52:01 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:52:03 almost like their target audience ?????? ?????? 03:52:19 `?hh monqy 03:52:21 The friehndshihp mohnqy ihs ahn ahnciehnt Chihnehse myhstehry; ahsk ihtihduhs21 fohr dehtaihls. 03:52:24 hi shachaf 03:52:30 oh no are you disapproving 03:52:41 so many anime I need to watch 03:52:47 Haven't heard of K-on 03:52:57 ( ゚∀゚) 03:52:58 it's a deep philisophical audience for adults 03:53:27 audience/anime 03:53:29 The sooner you learn to direct your interests only towards cute girls doing cute things the better 03:53:29 woops woops 03:53:35 It's a show about {4,5} moe high school girls acting cute while taking part in a _____ club 03:53:46 Yes and tea and cake 03:53:48 * Fiora loves how many anime she just described 03:53:52 philosophy club philosophy club 03:53:58 who's the fifth WHO'S THE FIFTH 03:54:06 ...azusa? 03:54:08 eh 03:54:11 whoa 03:54:13 monqy: can you tell me a story about {4,5} monoids 03:54:21 Suzumiya Haruhi has all of that except there are boys too 03:54:23 they talk about sartre and nietzsche and stuff 03:54:42 i want a god that stays dead, not plays dead 03:55:12 shachaf: no 03:55:30 i hate monoids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 03:55:47 Truly good shows do away with unneeded male characters altogether 03:55:48 :O 03:56:12 how about the unneeded female characters too 03:56:14 Truly good shows do away with both unneeded male and female characters 03:56:15 unneeded pets 03:56:20 I mean, if they're unneeded, who needs 'em? 03:56:24 unneeded farm animals 03:56:26 "if u get my meening" 03:56:26 unneeded zoo animals 03:56:29 unneeded wild animals 03:56:34 unneeded plants? 03:56:41 unneeded fungi????? 03:56:47 fungi are fun 03:56:51 That just reminds me of the Japanese evacuation of Manchuria. 03:56:53 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:57:21 Lumpio-: but if they did that, there'd be none left to be generic useless protagonists! 03:57:22 the truly good show is one you experience when detached from the binds of conciousness 03:57:32 Who needs protagonists when we can have slice of life 03:57:47 If there's a male protagonist it's probably a lame light novel/eroge adaptation 03:57:49 Does Suzumiya Haruhi count as slice of life? 03:57:55 It can get a bit slice-of-life-y at times 03:57:56 Don't think it does no 03:58:15 I mean there's like, a plot 03:58:18 It's mainly a light novel adaptation that's somewhat less bad than the usuals 03:58:19 And twists 03:58:36 Well it's a relatively "old" light novel adaptation so 03:58:41 And the same episode seven times! 03:58:42 Fiora: What's novel about it? 03:58:44 The shit they've been putting out for the last five years defies understanding 03:58:52 shachaf: is that a pun ~_~ 03:58:53 Bike: I thought it was eight 03:58:58 Then again I never watched that. 03:59:05 Lumpio-: jphinano.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/all-light-novels-are-the-same/ you'd like this post XD 03:59:06 Fiora: Every single thing I say in IRC is a pun. 03:59:13 Lumpio-: "important" 03:59:14 Most of them are so well-hidden you never catch on. 03:59:34 shachaf: is that a pun 03:59:45 monqy: "maybe" 03:59:46 oh, light novel title time? 04:00:09 shachaf: do you understand this "animes" thing, do you have a pun about it 04:00:15 https://twitter.com/ln_title_bot 04:00:27 Lumpio-: OMG 04:00:45 monqy: yes but "its advanced" 04:00:49 wait. are those actual titles? 04:00:54 yes 04:00:57 oh my god 04:00:58 that is wonderful 04:01:07 The links are cover pictures. 04:01:09 monqy: you might have to level up before you can "get" it 04:01:16 "The little sister is a dragon and the older brother is prematurely balding" i dunno, this seems pretty good 04:01:26 Also if you google any of the Japanese titles you'll see they're available on Amazon. 04:01:42 haha 04:01:45 "I've become a character in an otome game" 04:02:02 悪に堕ちたら美少女まみれで大勝利!! | Who cares if I'm the bad guy? Fuck yeah, I got bitches | http://minus.com/lrgyzxBOicuL 04:02:04 "The ultimate girlfriend has black hair and glasses" I really don't think that narrows it down much mr. MC 04:02:05 This translation is the best 04:02:10 http://i3.minus.com/ibvxzBUsgG1IfP.jpg Where the fuck is the balding? 04:02:12 these titles are bad 04:02:19 These translations are inspired. 04:02:28 Bike: Can't you see the guy holding onto his wig? 04:02:31 Bike: i think he's covering it 04:02:47 Uh what kind of cover is it if the title isn't completely superfluous?? 04:03:00 Isn't it like, a standard LN thing now to have titles that have nearly nothing to do with the content? 04:03:15 It's also standard to make the titles ridiculously long sentences instead of real titles 04:03:15 i'm not well versed on this ln nonsense but it sounds bad 04:03:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:03:34 oh this one has a girl in bondage on the cover 04:03:47 Like, in English, not "Generic little sister", but "It turned out that my little sister is generic, or so I've heard" 04:04:09 monqy: A "light novel" is basically a relatively easy to read novel. Generally the target audience is teenagers and young adults. 04:04:11 again, that actually seems like it could be pretty good 04:04:23 Also they've got pictures. 04:04:23 Some of them are quite good. A ton of them are crappy. 04:04:25 Maybe some kind of PKD-ish thing about a guy discovering his little sister is a clone. 04:04:29 Light novels are like young adult novels, often with some pictures and stuff 04:04:30 So you only need to actually read a fraction of the pages. 04:04:36 And you have to wonder whether the narrator is actually just delusional. 04:04:41 That's not a defining attribute, but yes, many of them have illustrations. 04:04:50 hypothesis: about 13% of japanese culture is actually pkd with more porn 04:04:50 but in recent years there's been a massive flood of terrible light novels 04:05:03 which seem to all be some combination of a little sister fetish and harems 04:05:12 possibly aiming at anime adaptations (???) 04:05:14 little sister harems??? it could happen 04:05:19 beat me to it 04:05:21 ahaha 04:05:25 you know it'll happen 04:05:26 Quite likely. Little sister harem anime is a thing. 04:05:29 Lumpio-: jphinano.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/just-as-expected-my-light-novel-list-wasnt-wrong-after-all/ 04:05:30 :P 04:05:44 " My little sister attracts other women and I am suffering" this should be about magnets. 04:05:47 it already exists probably, but not in the true sense of the word 'harem' ;P 04:05:47 And "being done before" doesn't stop anime from happening. 04:06:00 myndzi: "harem anime" doesn't really, so. 04:06:09 i'm just saying 04:06:12 someone could crank it up to 11 04:06:21 "Anubis! This is how I became the strongest death worm" and this could be about a mongolian death worm trying to make his way in a world that treats him as a cryptid. 04:06:23 "I cannot explain why my girlfriend has ears and a tail" the cover of the book has a girl with neither [animal] ears or a tail 04:06:29 "Little Sister Factory" D: 04:06:32 imo we should have more anime about caliphate infighting? 04:06:38 Bike: YES 04:06:44 Fiora: maybe that's why he can't explain it 04:06:50 lol 04:06:54 she's obviously shy 04:06:56 and hiding them 04:06:58 the closest thing i know is Otoyomegatari which isn't really close at all 04:07:02 no he's just delusional 04:07:06 central asia ftw 04:07:13 a delusion is fine too 04:07:25 http://i1.minus.com/ibekVQokOfX3Pw.jpg Um hello, no death worms?? 04:07:32 I like "Anuvis", however. Good romanization. 04:07:56 It's... The only accurate one from the kana. 04:07:58 Actually, how was that pronounced in Ancient Egypt, I wonder. Do we even know much about Egyptian vocals? Did they write rhyming poetry? 04:08:08 monqy: should i read "death note" 04:08:13 maybe they're death worms that can transform into little girls 04:08:15 or uh 04:08:17 It's actually "anuvisu" there. (anuùīsu) 04:08:20 little girls that can transform into death worms 04:08:23 "Anubis" is probably hilariously inaccurate itself, given Europe's history with well everything. 04:08:32 monqy: no, the first one is better. 04:08:33 shachaf: idk if you want 04:08:54 "Shotgun Detective", now here's an anime 04:09:00 Bike: i was also thinking maybe that girl is eating the death worms, but they're radioactive death worms so 04:09:01 yes! 04:09:09 http://i5.minus.com/iYCtfBznaBzBP.jpg wow fuck nevermind 04:09:14 :( 04:09:20 looks anime alright 04:09:24 put some clothes on lady 04:09:41 > anime about searching for shotguns 04:09:43 Not in scope: `anime'Not in scope: `about'Not in scope: `searching'Not in s... 04:09:45 escher light novels http://minus.com/l20WYOO1tvaBa 04:09:50 how do you fuck up "Shotgun Detective"? All you need is a detective with a shotgun, and you have gold. Did you learn nothing from Shotgun Ninja?! 04:09:52 where's that guy's uhh 04:09:54 detective stuff 04:10:03 like magnifying glass, goofy hat, bubble pipe 04:10:10 No, no, he's modern. 04:10:14 It's all in the trenchcoat. 04:10:14 Who needs those when you have a shotgun 04:10:26 Fiora: still like the sulfufic acid there 04:11:18 Bike: That's the illustrator's name. 04:11:28 Fuck! 04:11:30 you can use a shotgun as a pipe 04:11:31 in a pinch 04:11:48 But can you use one as a magnifying glass or goofy hat 04:12:00 YOU MAY LIKE TO KNOW THAT SELFLOADING KARBIN OF SIMONOV TYPE IS COMPLETE SISTEMA FOR SMOKE DOPE, IN ADDITION TO RIFLE FOR KILL ENEMIES OF PARTY. 04:12:02 A shotgun would make for a pretty goofy hat. 04:12:04 maybe it transforms 04:12:27 Bike: my headcanon is that it's really what the artist used to bend her spine line that 04:12:31 *like that 04:12:56 i think there are more practical concerns at play there 04:13:00 I don't think acid would help there. 04:13:02 like attracting young male readers 04:13:05 Well, not that kind of acid, anyway. 04:13:16 you could like, eat through bone with it? I dunno 04:13:23 maybe she's dead 04:13:35 Then it would have to be formaldehyde 04:13:45 once the book's written she's not needed so they off her 04:13:51 pose her all pretty for the covershot 04:13:55 bam instant hit 04:14:00 it's so easy to make this bullshit into mildly interesting premises, fuck 04:14:22 " Schroedinger's Cat-Ears Girl" 04:14:54 Fiora: http://i4.minus.com/irp3jEbulk07z.jpg thinking this might deserve an escher girls submission 04:15:04 her hips just kind of evaporated 04:15:10 ....wow 04:15:23 they somehow avoided the temptation to show even more of her upper body though 04:16:36 "MummyPoko! ~One day, I awoke as a Mongolian Death Worm.~" 04:17:00 maybe they killed her but they killed her a bit too hard and when they reconstructed her her butt was in the wrong place, woops 04:17:21 deadlines, budgets, it'll have to do 04:17:56 http://i7.minus.com/ibk8GEDK3vjCgZ.jpg Oh, hey, they put up that one ABe illustrated. 04:18:20 negative happy chainsaw edge? 04:18:21 Negative happy! Chainsaw edge 04:18:23 yes. 04:18:58 Yeah, it's by the same guy as Welcome to the NHK, if you've heard of that. 's about crazy people 04:19:07 oh 04:19:15 I can't remember the guy's name 04:19:28 NHK wasn't a light novel though was it, it was liek a proper book 04:19:38 it looks Lainish? 04:19:51 Fiora: like i said, abe. 04:19:56 oh riiiight he's... yeah 04:20:01 * Fiora bad with names @_@ 04:20:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NHKlightnovel.JPG he did NHK too. 04:20:14 ABe I can remember because it's three letters and he writes it dumb. 04:20:15 hum. 04:20:40 So how long until my misaki comes to save me .__. 04:20:57 you read NHK really weirdly 04:21:11 I never read it. 04:21:24 oh. well, she's fucking crazy. 04:21:27 spoilers! 04:21:30 And my brain filtered out the bad parts 04:21:35 orly ¬u¬ 04:21:36 all of it? 04:21:47 I did listen to some guy's lecture about the book at a convention though. 04:22:00 They must've toned it down a *lot* for the manga and even more for the animated adaptation 04:22:08 some guy's lecture 04:22:11 Yeah, they cut out all the cocaine. 04:22:16 And the CP 04:22:18 And the and the. 04:22:24 right. 04:22:28 `list 04:22:29 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 04:22:29 A lot anyways. 04:22:41 "The perverted gentleman with a ten-meter diameter" ok, i'm done after this, nothing can beat this 04:23:01 what 04:23:04 where 04:23:26 nope. done. 04:24:02 半径十メートルの変態紳士 04:24:04 huh. 04:24:06 It exists. 04:24:45 *Although* that probably was never published. Just appeared in the list of finalists for a competition or something. 04:25:05 ...also to be exact that's a ten-meter radius not a diameter ¬u¬ 04:26:28 Yeah, I was wondering about that. 04:27:13 But it does sound much better in English the other way 04:27:47 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:28:39 `?hh object 04:28:41 Ahn ohbjehct ihs juhst sohmehthihng ihn a cahtehgohry. 04:29:13 Shouldn't that say "an object is just an object in a category of objects" or something? 04:33:19 good point 04:34:13 monqy: imo it was a pretty bad point 04:34:23 that was the joke 04:34:28 i said "good point" but i meant "bad point" 04:34:40 wait 04:34:50 sometimes you say one thing but mean another thing 04:34:56 no 04:35:01 is the joke that yes 04:35:04 yes 04:35:06 *no 04:35:09 *woops 04:35:32 "caught in ur own web of lies" 04:35:49 monqy: Have I ever made a good point? :-( 04:35:59 idk maybe 04:36:57 what about the time when i was all like 04:37:00 :·( 04:38:03 "I'll show you how to be a nerd if you go out with me!" still cannot even this twitter 04:38:39 "George's father tries to promote COBOL at SF startups. Kramer accidentally joins the R7RS working group." 04:40:23 are there any words that rhyme with monoid 04:40:25 or monoids 04:40:26 toroid 04:40:34 mongoloid 04:40:43 steroid 04:40:47 cycloid! 04:41:26 marvin the paranoid monoid 04:42:07 I don't think any of these are rhymes. :-( 04:51:50 @quote stereoid 04:51:51 No quotes match. 04:52:05 `quote monoid 04:52:06 No output. 04:52:19 `run > bin/quonoid echo quote monoid; chmod +x bin/quonoid 04:52:22 No output. 05:00:41 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 05:02:01 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:05:01 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 05:18:28 How many times are things going to be re-explained in this series? (Naruto) 05:18:35 `?hh naruto 05:18:36 nahruhto? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 05:19:40 `run ls wisdom | shuf 05:19:42 brainfuck \ ais523 \ oregon \ ehird \ fungot \ mad \ coppro \ monad \ d-module \ heck \ phantom__________hoover \ monoids \ homestuck \ lifthrasiir \ ievan \ wiki \ wisdom \ parsley \ coffee \ pizza \ footnote 8 \ taneb \ bike \ atrix \ banach-tarski \ you \ intercal \ boily \ lens \ phantom___hoover \ hexham \ irc \ ø \ helsinki \ devious \ kalli 05:19:54 shachaf: gyaaaaa! 05:20:05 `?hh pizza 05:20:06 Pihzza ihs a kihnd ohf rhuhbahrb pie mahde wihthouht rhuhbahrb. 05:20:14 `?hh irc 05:20:15 ihrc ihs uhsehlehss. 05:20:43 `?hh heck 05:20:45 Hehck ihs whehre you ehnd uhp ihf you dohn't behliehve ihn Gohsh. 05:20:55 `?hh homestuck 05:20:56 Hohmehstuhck ihs a cuhlt rehlihgiohn fohr dihsahffehctehd teehns. Gahmzee drihvehs the buhs. 05:21:51 `?hh helsinki 05:21:52 Hehlsihnki ihs the cahpihtahl ohf Fihnlahnd. Ihts maihn suhbuhrb ihs Hehxhahm, Nohrthuhmbehrlahnd. 05:21:55 `run ls wisdom | shuf 05:21:56 lifthrasiir \ burma \ välkommen \ atriq \ ievan \ irc \ bonvenon \ structural subtyping \ phantom___hoover \ cyberiad \ scotland \ oklopol \ gaszpacho \ d-module \ the us \ misspellings of croissant \ devious \ quote \ you \ gaspacho \ the them \ hagb4rd \ ☃ \ norway \ ngevd \ egobot \ footnote 8 \ pietbot \ flagpole \ fungot \ itidus19 \ coppro 05:22:02 lifthrasiir: Sorry! 05:22:07 `?hh pietbot 05:22:10 Piehtboht ihs the ohnly thihng thaht cahn dehfeaht fuhngoht. 05:22:14 `?hh the us 05:22:16 The UhS ihs the couhntry ohppohsehd to the THEhM. 05:30:25 jlul 05:30:28 Do you know if foreign keys referencing other files are allowed in SQLite? 05:30:46 maybe the regex should be two regexes 05:30:50 one for each case 05:30:55 upper and lower 05:31:08 so the US becomes UHS and THEM becomes THEHM 05:31:31 What do uS and Us turn into? 05:32:16 `? fungot 05:32:16 Bike: the best acid? where is it? 05:32:17 fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone. 05:32:24 Whatever you think of Naruto, the music is good 05:32:42 fungot: kmc would be the person to ask 05:32:42 shachaf: that paper ( clinger's) has a very precise meaning in c or even c++' useless 05:32:49 kmc: (Where is it?) 05:40:18 haha 05:40:19 i do not know 05:42:46 What about just good acid? 05:43:03 nope 05:43:08 i mean i know some people who might know 05:43:10 but i do not know 05:43:23 acid is not, how you say, efficient market commodity 05:45:57 :-( 05:45:59 What about hydrochloric acid? 05:49:26 `addquote Bike: the best acid? where is it? 05:49:27 kmc: what are flow info and scope id). if police is sent to irc" without realizing other stuff is fixed :)) 05:49:30 939) Bike: the best acid? where is it? 05:49:41 fungot: you have to tell me if you're a cop 05:49:42 kmc: he left, never to any other. green tabasco sauce and fnord. they work " well enough" and abysmal more like " wow, cool, you can try 05:50:30 fungot! 05:50:31 kmc: it seems to have stabilized at fnord iterations and isn't really assignment, it gives you a 3d woman 05:50:52 fungot… 05:50:53 kmc: try reading the appropriate documentation, fez??? for the lower-case alphabet bit? 05:51:01 yeah, fez, what the hell 05:51:26 good style 05:51:28 is this irc 05:51:29 ^style 05:51:29 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 05:51:36 fungot: good style 05:51:36 shachaf: advice 11903 for edw: i am gavino. 05:51:51 fungot: good advice 05:51:52 shachaf: then you'll get to that collapse point fnord the z3 was the tc one. native speakers. 05:54:54 fungot: hi monqy 05:54:55 shachaf: well, i was mostly fighting with this encoding stuff fnord was never published in english, i can't say, on the fly then outputs it 05:54:59 hi shachaf 05:55:05 monqy: hi fungot 05:55:06 shachaf: or did i just wipe everything outside of /proc, should you happen to feel coherent right now? just experimenting with my graph version, stacks and numbers are very different 06:01:51 -!- augur has joined. 06:02:18 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:02:42 -!- augur has joined. 06:16:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator_safety 06:16:33 "Also, if you get killed, everything is lost" 06:16:45 I guess the Narutoverse hasn't heard of having a bus factor of >1 06:16:58 Have they heard of monoids? 06:16:58 ...then again, neither have some software projects, including VP 06:17:15 1?hh narutoverse 06:17:24 `?hh narutoverse 06:17:25 nahruhtohvehrse? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 06:17:40 `learn narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. 06:17:44 I knew that. 06:19:19 `?hh naruto 06:19:21 nahruhto? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 06:19:25 Sgeo: who is naruto 06:20:06 `run sed -e 's/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./' wisdom/narutoverse 06:20:07 narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus. 06:20:20 `run sed -ie 's/$/ Sgeo drives the bus./' wisdom/narutoverse 06:20:20 Jafet++ 06:20:23 No output. 06:20:28 Like the shorter and more familiar strings of stringed musical instruments, the cable of a space elevator has a natural resonant frequency. 06:23:45 `?hh space elevator 06:23:47 spahce ehlehvahtohr? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 06:24:48 `?hh chicago 06:24:50 chihcahgo? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 06:24:52 fungot elevator 06:24:53 kmc: right. a minor third has a ratio of fnord :d 06:24:57 fungot: what's chicago like 06:24:57 shachaf: i support riastradh's requests for more parens as well. to prove the compliance 06:25:07 `run echo "Like the shorter and more familiar strings of stringed musical instruments, the cable of a space elevator has a natural resonant frequency." >"wisdom/space elevator" 06:25:10 No output. 06:25:16 `?hh space elevator 06:25:18 Lihke the shohrtehr ahnd mohre fahmihliahr strihngs ohf strihngehd muhsihcahl ihnstruhmehnts, the cahble ohf a spahce ehlehvahtohr hahs a nahtuhrahl rehsohnahnt frehquehncy. 06:25:23 Yes, good. 06:28:01 shachaf did you get the crypto puzzles yet 06:28:33 No, I haven't sent an email. 06:29:06 I guess they're "that good" 07:00:43 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:35:41 -!- nkg has joined. 08:36:27 -!- nkg has quit (Client Quit). 08:45:26 -!- azaq23 has joined. 08:46:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:46:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:49:17 Does Parsec assume a single correct unique parsing? 09:16:14 * Sgeo manages to do what he needs without Parsec 09:17:00 was it an interesting thing 09:18:21 meh 09:18:35 Well, it was difficult for me, so I guess that's interesting? 09:18:42 no 09:19:07 did you write a parser by hand 09:25:43 monqy: Are covariant proxies useful? 09:26:02 i don't know 09:26:09 I don't either. 09:26:17 I can't think of any use for them off-hand. 09:27:28 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:28:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:29:41 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: dead). 09:34:31 monqy, yes 09:34:56 you know there's a reason why parsy things exist right 09:35:00 it's because writing parsers by hand is dumb 09:36:23 monqy: what if i want a streaming parser!! 09:36:38 get someone to write a parsy thing for those, then use that 09:36:52 I tried to use Parsec but it ate my memory 09:36:54 monqy: please write a parsy thing for those 09:37:10 Sgeo: did you make a memory leaking infinite loop 09:37:11 Also I don't know if the specs even had a unique parsing 09:38:37 As a matter of fact there is not. 09:38:46 There are strings that can validly be parsed multiple ways. 09:39:03 oh no!!! 09:39:39 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:39:55 does your hand-written parser assume a single correct unique parsing ? 09:40:05 Sgeo: can i recommend monoids 09:40:07 i love them 09:40:14 monqy, no it doesn't. 09:40:18 :0 09:40:35 ps what does it mean to "assume" a single correct unique parsing 09:42:30 -!- oklopol has joined. 09:56:43 -!- aloril has joined. 09:59:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:00:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:00:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 10:00:38 GHCi is not very easy to interrupt when you do something dumb 10:03:28 Sgeo: I think you are correct. 10:10:07 I made some changes to the SQLite command shell. Now there is the command .virtual to create an empty virtual table module so that you can create virtual tables for use with other programs, and .extract command to extract blob data from SELECT statements to an external file, and the blobfile(...) function to read an external file. 10:15:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:20:15 -!- carado has joined. 10:22:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:31:32 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:37:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:50:03 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:09:39 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 12:49:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:05:42 -!- aloril has joined. 13:33:43 `?hh zzo38 13:33:48 zzo38 ihs noht ahctuahlly the nehxt vehrsiohn ohf fuhngoht, muhch ahs iht may seehm. 13:33:57 fungot: hi fuhngoht 13:33:58 shachaf: i mean, he has the materials with which to fiddle now? great! it is a top-level or body form, or so 13:34:07 fungot: or so 13:34:07 shachaf: i cannot possibly fathom why one would want to do ( source foo) or something 13:34:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:34:19 i cannot either, fungot. i cannot either 13:34:19 shachaf: the decryption part isn't correct, is unhelpful, i guess. ( but i guess it could be a movie :-s 13:34:26 helloerjan 13:34:38 g'dachaf 13:34:55 Oh, that's good. "g'dachaf". 13:35:01 ^rot13 g'dachaf 13:35:01 t'qnpuns 13:35:06 `wehlcohme oerjan 13:35:07 oehrjahn: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 13:35:27 `run wehlcohme oerjan | sed s/dahl/dal/g # for you 13:35:28 oehrjahn: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dal.neht.) 13:35:30 thahnk you 13:37:33 However, there is already the problem, since there is no SQLITE_OMIT_UNICODE. <-- once again, zzo38 is thwarted in his attempt to avoid unicode 13:38:12 zzo thirty hate :'( 13:50:29 I could probably tell the time by what's on my Tumblr dashboard 13:51:01 Time to log out of Tumblr? 13:51:12 Log... out? 13:51:41 It's Adventure Time with hints of Team Fortress 2 and Homestuck 13:51:51 http://www.tumblr.com/logout 13:51:52 hth 13:52:25 There's always http://www.tumblr.com/account/delete if you're serious about logging out 13:55:00 You monster. 13:57:53 It's the only cure to the thing. 13:58:59 Maybe some kind of PKD-ish thing about a guy discovering his little sister is a clone. <-- polycystic kidney disease is no laughing matter. 14:01:14 * oerjan thinks philip k. dick may fit better. 14:14:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:26:35 !bf +++++[-] 14:26:45 `bf +++++[-]. 14:26:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf: not found 14:26:57 Woah 14:27:11 Is the GBP based on a banknote standard 14:30:27 great british paper 14:31:33 horray \o/ 14:31:58 im tire 14:32:10 elliott: so you're on a roll? 14:32:10 `? elliott 14:32:12 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 14:32:39 `learn elliott is tire 14:32:43 I knew that. 14:32:46 `revert 14:32:49 Done. 14:33:09 `run echo " He is also tire." >>wisdom/elliott 14:33:13 No output. 14:33:21 `? elliott 14:33:23 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? \ He is also tire. 14:33:26 oops 14:33:28 are you suggesting the other information was useful 14:34:07 `run sed -i -e 1N -e 's/\n//' wisdom/elliott 14:34:10 No output. 14:34:13 `? elliott 14:34:14 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. 14:35:22 `run echo test | sed -e 's/te/o/;s/st/k/' 14:35:24 ok 14:36:38 `run yes | head -10 14:36:39 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 14:37:15 `run yes | head -10 | sed -e '1,$N;s/\n//' 14:37:16 yy \ yy \ yy \ yy \ yy 14:37:19 hmph 14:37:50 Can I use regex to replace matched brackets? 14:37:57 [...[...]..] 14:38:07 no 14:38:11 except yes if perl 14:38:13 It would have to replace the inner brackets first. 14:38:40 ok. 14:38:47 maybe I don't need that. 14:39:03 nope. 14:39:05 \o 14:41:12 -!- yxynaxen has joined. 14:41:58 `welcome yxynaxen 14:42:00 yxynaxen: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:42:12 -!- yxynaxen has left. 14:45:43 hi bye 14:46:21 wrong kind of esoteric, I guess 14:49:44 olsner: hi bye 14:50:08 http://codepad.org/mWNt1mGS 14:50:18 That wasn't even that difficult. 14:50:38 elliott: hi bye 14:50:41 oerjan: hello again! 14:51:21 goætmida 14:52:29 well 14:52:44 now I just need . and , too 14:54:44 writing bf in regexps may be a little hard. 14:55:23 elliott: PCRE can also match brackets in regexps 14:55:33 it's not identical to perl regexp, but it does include the necessary features 14:55:53 I'm not sure if Perl knew what they'd created when they added (??{}) 14:56:07 the documentation said that they were adding the feature to see what happened 14:56:20 and then when they realised people were using it to write recursive regexps, they added an explicit recursion operator 14:56:28 PCRE doesn't have (??{}), but it does have the recursion operator 14:56:52 I'm gonna actually learn what a D-module is 14:57:24 I wonder how populated the dalnet #esoteric is 14:57:30 and how much of its traffic we're responsible for 14:57:31 A ring is like something with addition and multiplication 14:57:42 I've been working with semirings a lot 14:57:46 a semiring has addition and multiplication 14:57:57 a ring has subtraction and division too (apart from division by 0) 14:58:29 Oh, okay 14:58:46 * oerjan swats ais523 -----### 14:58:51 NO DIVISION 14:59:08 A ring of differential operators would be a ring where the numbers are differential operators, right? 14:59:30 oerjan: I think it has multiplicative inverses, right? 14:59:38 no. that's a division ring. 14:59:39 multiplicative inverness 14:59:42 ah, OK 14:59:49 I only work with semirings 14:59:56 none of this subtraction nonsense 15:00:25 Taneb: except they don't call them numbers afaik. 15:00:49 Sssh 15:01:16 `? Inverness 15:01:18 Inverness? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:01:27 Taneb: the technical term is "thingies" 15:01:41 `learn Inverness is a city in Scotland. The ring road isn't multiplicative. 15:01:44 I knew that. 15:03:03 "elements", if you must. 15:03:34 `? ring 15:03:36 ring? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:04:04 `echo "Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them." >wisdom/ring 15:04:05 ​"Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them." >wisdom/ring 15:04:08 `run echo "Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them." >wisdom/ring 15:04:11 No output. 15:04:21 `? ring 15:04:22 Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them. 15:04:32 `bf_textgen hello 15:04:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf_textgen: not found 15:04:41 hm. 15:04:45 `bfgen hello 15:04:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bfgen: not found 15:04:52 `bf_txtgen hello 15:04:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf_txtgen: not found 15:04:57 oh hm 15:05:00 !bf_txtgen hello 15:05:04 ​56 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.---.+++++++..+++.>++. [241] 15:06:58 `run echo "There are two kinds of fields. Those where you can divide (except by zero), and those where you can conquer." >wisdom/field 15:07:01 No output. 15:07:46 I'm not quite sure how wisdom ended up full of abstract mathematical concepts 15:07:47 but I approve 15:08:26 241 cells? 15:08:30 or what is that number 15:08:49 probably number of execution steps. 15:09:08 >><< 15:09:18 there are only 5 cells. 15:09:22 I wonder how much better a bf_txtgen you could make 15:09:27 well then I have some nasty bug :( 15:09:33 !bf_txtgen a 15:09:35 ​39 ++++++++[>++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.>++. [90] 15:09:40 also, what the shortest string is that it's undecidable what the shortest program to output it is 15:10:03 ais523, I think that's undecidable 15:10:23 Taneb: yeah, I guess it is, but it still /exists/, despite being undecidable 15:10:36 also, it's not necessarily undecidable, it's just not necessarily decidable 15:11:31 ah, there we go. 15:11:31 My gut is telling me that any string you can write down, the problem of shortest program to output it is decidable, although perhaps difficult to automate 15:12:25 The number in []s is IIRC the generation number. 15:12:43 Related to the algorithm used. 15:12:51 Taneb: my get tells me your gut needs recalibration. 15:12:55 *gut 15:13:18 Taneb: see kolgomorov complexity. 15:13:36 Taneb: also "decidable but difficult to automate" is kind of incoherent... 15:14:04 My gut isn't very good at this 15:14:22 Taneb: I disagree, I'd be surprised if it were more than, say, 510 characters (the length of an IRC line) 15:14:25 and may well be a lot shorter 15:14:37 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burlesque#Brainfuck_Interpreter 15:14:44 I must have been bored today :) 15:14:59 The thing about kolgomorov complexity is that you can only get an upper bound 15:15:03 It's useful anyway 15:15:03 hmm, what happened to that halting analysis of BF programs we were going to do? 15:15:12 I forget what the purpose was 15:15:24 oh, we were trying to find the shortest BF program s.t. we didn't know whether it halted or not 15:15:31 yeah, that sounds like an interesting problem 15:15:38 by way of exhaustive search with a partial halting checker, and solving the ones it couldn't by hand, until we got stock 15:15:41 *stuck 15:15:48 elliott: that's how Wolfram found the 2,3 machine 15:16:00 oh, cool 15:16:07 not in terms of a halting checker, but in terms of finding a pattern that his program couldn't predict 15:16:12 ais523: I bet you actually mean "someone Wolfram knew" though :P 15:16:12 How far did you get? 15:16:15 FreeFull: we didn't 15:16:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:16:25 elliott: that's the sort of thing he usually did himself, actually 15:16:29 just massive brute force searches 15:16:35 he left proofs up to other people, though 15:16:50 ais523: people like Alex Smith 15:17:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:17:05 (possibly for the best: one of the only proofs I think he did himself is both very short, and incorrect) 15:17:14 (I managed to fix it, but didn't write the fix down) 15:17:22 * FreeFull looks at the 2,3 machine universality proof 15:17:47 FreeFull: imo that proof is lame and the author stinks 15:17:56 good thing they're not in #esoteric 15:18:40 I've concluded that the proof is definitely correct, but there's quite some valid debate about what it actually proves 15:19:04 and don't want to resubmit it to the journal until I've figured out what it is I'm trying to prove 15:19:13 * ais523 mentions http://esolangs.org/wiki/1cnis 15:19:24 but I'm not convinced it actually solves the problem, for two different reasons 15:19:58 ais523: oh, did they give up on accepting it? 15:21:09 no 15:21:25 they're still trying to get me to correct for their feedback and resubmit 15:21:35 I want a paper that will satisfy other people too, though, rather than just them 15:22:19 he'll get it fixed just after implementing feather, don't you worry 15:22:46 * oerjan feels mean 15:24:15 oerjan: I think that's GreyKnight's job now. 15:25:06 mroman, try writing a brainfuck interpreter in Fueue 15:27:50 oerjan: you can blame the wolfram people for killing my motivation to work on it 15:27:53 by being too pushy 15:28:30 ah. then i entirely sympathize. 15:31:53 fueue 15:31:58 is not in the wiki 15:32:16 mroman 15:32:24 is not very good at wiki searches 15:32:51 mroman, did you search for Feueu? 15:33:08 Because that doesn't exist and I use to make that mistake every time, and I created Fueue 15:33:14 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue 15:33:20 nope 15:33:24 yeah, first time 15:33:32 I wrote the URL without even checking to see what the article was called 15:33:33 seriously 15:33:36 the fuck? 15:33:42 it's not particularly unguessable 15:33:48 did you search Wikipedia by mistake/ 15:34:01 oh 15:34:04 yeah 15:34:07 maybe he seached ehsolahngs.ohrg 15:34:11 i'm little bit legasthenic. 15:34:16 so I searched for fuefue 15:34:17 *+h 15:35:30 Taneb: If you write one in underload. 15:35:39 ah, stalemate. 15:35:58 (it's actually hypothetically possible to write a BF interpreter in Fueue) 15:36:16 (although ridiculously difficult) 15:36:24 (Underload lacks the IO capabilities 15:36:26 ) 15:37:12 No biggy. 15:37:31 Just put IO somewhere. 15:38:03 oerjan: well come to qwerty.com 15:38:13 elwat 15:38:29 oh i meant to address that to ais523 15:38:32 sorry 15:38:36 ais523: well come to qwerty.com 15:38:59 elliott: why do you want me to "come to" a domain name? 15:39:07 normally I'd assume HTTP, but the way that's worded implies it isn't 15:39:09 IRC? 15:39:39 ais523: I was just well coming you! 15:40:00 elliott: oh, I see 15:40:38 you're complaining about a typo/bad grammar on a website, without sufficient context to make the fact you're doing that clear 15:40:54 * oerjan sees no well come on qwerty.com 15:41:06 ais523: wrong again, sorry :( 15:41:21 in fact I did not even know what content was hosted on qwerty.com when I sent that line 15:41:26 well then I'm going to ignore you 15:41:27 though curiosity got the better of me shortly after 15:41:34 ais523: ok :( 15:41:40 ais523: i'll miss you 15:41:42 not /ignore 15:41:50 just, not care about what you said, because I don't understand it 15:41:58 hmm, apparently there's number keypad training 15:42:00 that sounds like a convenient superpower 15:42:32 Careless Man 15:43:07 I wonder if there's a thriving community of people developing alternative numpad layouts somewhere 15:46:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:53:05 Are pointers torsors? 15:54:39 wat. 15:54:58 I'm fairly sure I made none of those words up 15:55:21 http://ro-che.info/articles/2013-01-08-torsors.html 15:55:59 oh that sense. then yes. 15:56:09 * oerjan already has seen that article. 15:56:21 ignoring out of bounds errors. 15:57:10 and not being allowed to subtract pointers from different arrays. 15:57:38 "yes except, no" 15:58:17 that is, pointers are torsors if you treat all of memory as one byte array with wrapping semantics for the addresses. 15:58:36 Yay 15:58:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:58:45 Potentially useful for someone who isn't me! 16:01:13 does the memory layout of core war fit? only relative addressing iirc. 16:01:45 I don't know core war well enough to tell you 16:02:04 although i guess that means they _only_ store differences, and have no actual pointers as first class values 16:02:39 anyway -> 16:02:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:03:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:04:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:05:58 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:18:32 -!- aloril has joined. 16:20:29 @tell kmc http://i.imgur.com/Iyl5fm3.jpg 16:20:29 Consider it noted. 16:22:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:22:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:41:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:41:34 "But as mathematicians and security agents made their way to New Jersey, a number of people began to smell something fishy" 16:42:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:42:01 Taneb: source? 16:42:47 The music of Primes by Marcus du Sautoy 16:43:15 That bit came from a description of an April Fool's prank that went horribly, horribly right 16:47:37 Enrico Bombieri claimed a physicist had solved the Reimann Hypothesis and everyone believed him 16:53:28 Aaargh, I just read "nomadic" as "monadic" and got really confused for a second 16:54:39 Oh wow. 16:54:53 Oliver Smoot ended up being chairman of both ANSI and ISO. 16:55:44 simultaneously? 16:55:51 No, consecutively. 16:57:29 Was he the guy with the bridge? 16:58:31 Yes. 17:04:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:17:09 @messages 17:17:09 elliott said 56m 40s ago: http://i.imgur.com/Iyl5fm3.jpg 17:17:30 elliott: yeah wtf 17:17:43 you're welcome 17:17:56 I like "Klout has created Page Rank for people" 17:18:02 well... done? 17:18:03 `quote 17:18:05 755) (help why are german) i play the german version of crawl i 17:18:38 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 17:19:16 it's getting harder to make fun of this stuff, when I say "bro down and crush code" i thought it was a ridiculous overexaggeration 17:19:30 that said, the sign is from 2 years ago 17:19:43 and they were roundly ridiculed for it then too 17:19:50 well what is time 17:19:54 imo: an illusion 17:19:58 taking away the moments that make up the dull day 17:20:03 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:20:08 isn't it "ticking" 17:20:15 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:20:20 elliott, I think it's more like a burrito 17:20:32 If you have too much of time you get ill 17:20:37 But damn it felt good 17:21:13 You only get out what you put in, unless your time was made by someone else, which isn't as fun 17:23:02 burritos don't work like that! 17:28:59 elliott: maybe 17:32:19 -!- aloril has joined. 17:32:52 ais523, am I thinking of tacos? 17:34:49 elliott: maybe it's unfair to make fun of klout 2 years after they apologized, but on the other hand it does please me that the reputation damage from these things is long lasting 17:37:27 wait 17:37:30 what was the apology 17:37:43 "we're sorry we put out ads that made us look like idiots" 17:38:02 kmc: isn't there a more fundamental problem in the form of the fact that klout is also inherently such bullshit 17:38:11 and therefore deserving of mockery regardless of their recruiting practices anyway! 17:39:52 oh wait was it because they used the black power fist 17:40:01 Phantom_Hoover: i assume it was something along the lines of "sorry for putting out a terrible sexist ~brogrammer~ recruitment ad" except less sincere 17:40:45 Er, that really doesn't seem like the sort of thing for which a company would issue a direct apology. 17:41:03 Unless there was a really massive outcry, in which case they might do a "sorry you were offended". 17:41:10 lmgtfy 17:41:20 well 17:41:21 17:19:30 that said, the sign is from 2 years ago 17:41:21 17:19:43 and they were roundly ridiculed for it then too 17:41:31 http://corp.klout.com/blog/2013/01/moving-past-brogramming/ hm a new post 17:41:31 i assume there was at least some kind of outcry involved in that 17:41:35 i guess because it's going around again 17:42:05 Phantom_Hoover: anyway yes "sorry you were offended" is what I meant by "except less sincere" 17:42:05 Right but like I said, ridicule doesn't really make for apologies. 17:42:08 SORRY YOU MISINTERPRETED ME 17:43:28 the say the company is 30% women now, but I would be curious to know about engineering / technical roles 17:44:35 anyway i can't find the original apology so sorry 17:44:51 "Kloutlaws" 17:44:54 "Kloutlaws" 17:44:56 "Kloutlaws" 17:44:57 "Kloutlaws" 17:45:00 yeah 17:45:50 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:50:05 anyway maybe if klout did anything of value I would not mock them 17:50:20 though this is my first time I have mocked klout I think!!! a first time for everything 17:50:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:52:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:55:43 i would still mock them for that poster 17:56:34 i've said it before but: startup hackers are allegric to professionalism for the same reason nerds are allergic to sports 17:56:43 backlash against a (real or perceived) past aggressor 18:00:02 don't worry kmc, we don't expect you to avoid saying something you've said before 18:00:07 good 18:00:13 i like repetition, it is so easy 18:01:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:01:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:01:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:02:54 -!- aloril has joined. 18:03:08 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:15:14 -!- Bike has joined. 18:28:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:39:30 " My gut is telling me that any string you can write down, the problem of shortest program to output it is decidable, although perhaps difficult to automate" obviously yes 18:39:50 probably most of them aren't provable in your favorite logic though 18:42:01 ais523: maybe you could prove your machine is p complete? 18:45:53 -!- gadis has joined. 18:51:43 Okay, so I fiddled a bit with RRDtool. This is very much work-in-progress, but here's a sneak preview: http://zem.fi/esostats/ 18:51:43 -!- gadis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:51:51 (And off to the sauna. ->) 18:52:12 also what exactly did cook prove? 18:52:16 for 110 18:53:01 universalislaijelijrlijtylijy or something? 18:53:02 "idk" 18:54:04 fizzie: apparently "z" had a spike of popularity in 2005 18:54:15 and "q"s popularity has been steadily increasing over the years 18:54:15 yeah and o had one near 2003 18:54:25 with a spike in sep/oct last year 18:54:28 *sept? 18:54:35 who knows 18:55:30 i don't get it, there are clear mathematical definitions for when a set is computationally hard, and then people write these insanely complicated constructions and don't bother to check what they actually prove 18:55:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:55:49 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:55:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:55:51 oklopol: in what context? 18:55:58 estoeric languages or CS generally? 18:57:39 in the context that i just scrolled through the paper that "proves rule 110 is universal", and there is not a single theorem. presumably it does explain what exactly is proven in the text though, i should probably at least read the intro. 18:58:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:00:01 oklopol: have you read ais' paper 19:00:03 oklopol: hmm, I'm not sure; the problem is the 2,3 machine takes ever expanding memory to accomplish anything (and this is trivially easily provable) 19:00:18 i have not 19:00:23 oklopol: imo read it 19:01:02 i have many things i should read 19:01:04 :/ 19:02:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:02:28 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:02:37 oklopol: it's short! 19:02:41 won't you have fun 19:02:53 yeah i can't really find what cook's paper proves 19:05:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:05:29 "So one undecidable question is, 'Will the following glider ever appear?'" 19:06:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:06:03 the fuck is that supposed to mean? 19:07:39 is the rule 110 proof one of those with a computable but non-repeating initial state? 19:08:01 who knows 19:08:14 kmc: I think that's just ais523's 19:08:27 is the proof still being suppressed by the mathematica secret police? 19:08:42 http://www.complex-systems.com/pdf/15-1-1.pdf 19:08:52 if you can make sense out of that, do tell 19:09:30 http://www.cs.may.ie/~tnaughton/abc/download/dw15.pdf here's p completeness, which actually means somethin 19:09:31 g 19:13:03 kmc: the rule 110 initial state is repeating 19:13:11 although not repeating zeros, it's quite a complex repeating pattern 19:14:41 repeating in what sense? 19:15:01 eventually periodic in both direction, that is, of the form ...uuuvwww...? 19:15:04 *directions 19:15:06 yeah, uuuvwww 19:15:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:15:42 so given u, v, w, u', v', w', it is undecidable whether ..uuuvwww... eventually evolves into ...u'u'u'v'w'w'w'...? 19:15:58 is that what they prove 19:21:38 oklopol: CS academia is stupid 19:22:09 oklopol: well, the programmer's point of view is "you're simulating the execution of another program, and anything on that program can be mapped onto this one" 19:22:18 I think what you do is you define an easily observable halt state 19:22:27 and prove it's undecidable whether that is reached 19:22:40 for the rule 110 automaton, it would be of the form "the sequence q doesn't appear anywhere on the tape" 19:22:58 the halt state works much more neatly for the 2,3 machine, we use a half-infinite tape 19:23:01 falling off the end = halt state 19:26:49 prove it's undecidable whether that is reached from what? 19:27:17 cellular automata have infinite configurations 19:28:19 i agree that from a terrible writer's point of view, it's enough to write the construction, as everyone who reads every last detail of it will know what it does or does not prove. 19:30:32 (which is not what you said, the agreeing was just a common assholing technique) 19:31:20 oklopol: actually, I think what you do is, you prove that that configuration is reached if and only if you're encoding a TM that halts into the initial tape 19:31:37 at least that's what I did 19:34:10 and that is fine and well once you actually say what kind of initial tapes you have 19:34:31 say, eventually periodic points. 19:34:47 (the ...uuuvwww... kind) 19:35:28 oklopol: actually what I was working on before I stopped for the 2,3 proof was a precise definition of what sort of initial tape I had 19:37:41 i have no qualms with you, i have qualms with cook who seems to have a clear problem he has solved but doesn't explain what. you have trouble figuring out what you can solve, that's not laziness, that just means math is being a bitch. 19:38:07 oklopol: anyway I didn't resubmit the paper because of that 19:38:20 specifically, my situation is that I'm pretty certain I've proved something, just am not sure what 19:38:48 yeah 19:41:18 re the topic, is goat-time like space-time except with goats instead of space? 19:41:28 is 1cnis enough for your proof? 19:41:58 also are you familiar with substitutions and their fixed points, because i'm wondering if 1cnis has something to do with those 19:52:24 oklopol: I don't know if 1cnis is enough 19:52:35 that's what I've been "trying to establish" for well over a year now 19:58:05 the problem is generating nested loops 19:59:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:59:52 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 20:07:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:14:19 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:14:30 -!- mekeor has joined. 20:18:04 have you looked at fixed points of substitutions? 20:19:07 (i have little knowledge about their computational properties) 20:19:22 oklopol: not really 20:20:46 they are infinite sequences with a finite description and some sort of nested things. 20:21:06 1cnis is pretty much like that 20:22:39 yeah that's why i asked 20:22:57 but i was too lazy to read 1cnis's description for now, perhaps later 20:44:05 -!- evincar has joined. 20:45:39 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:45:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:45:50 http://www.thebands.biz/article/simcity-mayor-under-fire-for-excessive-use-of-eminent-domain/ 20:46:18 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:48:17 Does anyone know who this guy was that didn't use an actual IRC client but used telnet instead? I remember being told about this by someone. 20:48:49 zzo38? 20:48:50 that's annoying because you have to respond to PINGs 20:48:56 he sort of has a client 20:49:00 it's written in php and outputs in coloured raw irc format 20:49:21 kmc: I imagine it is 20:55:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:56:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:56:35 AnotherTest: I can IRC through telnet/netcat just fine 20:56:43 I normally don't, sometimes I do it when I need a second connection, or just to show off 20:57:31 it's really not very hard at all 20:57:41 it's like all these old protocols, they were designed to be done by hand I think 20:57:54 as well as via clients 20:58:16 Yes, for sure. I guess you could even make the PING replies to automagically 20:58:43 AnotherTest: that's pretty much what zzo38's client does 20:58:53 the other thing you want is a separate echo area for where you're typing 20:59:02 it's very distracted for other peoples' lines to appear in the middle of yours 20:59:11 err, distracting 21:00:23 Actually, writing an IRC client isn't very hard 21:00:27 not hard at all 21:00:47 Anyway, I was just wondering 21:01:02 because some people where asking why anyone would do it 21:01:16 (and who would überhaubt do it) 21:04:53 What my client does is if it receives anything, it deletes what you have typed, outputs what it receives, and then puts your input back onto the screen so that you can continue. 21:12:49 zzo38? <-- i think Gregor also tried it? 21:13:35 I wrote a raw IRC client. 21:13:38 help I just arranged to speak with someone about a job and only now noticed that it's on the other side of the country 21:13:44 I still use it now and then. 21:13:48 (The job, that is. Not where I'd be speaking. It would be a phone conversation) 21:13:58 Sgeo: Enjoy the move. 21:14:20 Gregor, not necessarily going to move unless it's a really good offer 21:14:34 Even then.. I feel uneasy with that 21:14:42 Why? 21:15:08 Sgeo: aren't you basically pining for an opportunity to become more independent? 21:15:14 Gregor: Is it the one called "rawirc"? I have seen that one, although it lacked some things 21:15:42 I'm not pining for an opportunity to put a very large distance between me and all of my friends 21:15:47 And between me and my girlfriend 21:16:24 oh. i keep forgetting people have rl friends. carry on then. 21:16:47 (ok i have one, i think) 21:16:50 zzo38: Yup. 21:17:04 Sgeo: Can you work remotely and come in to the brick-and-meatsuit office occasionally? 21:17:10 oerjan: I have IRL friends. I live thousands of miles from them. 21:17:20 "Brick-and-meatsuit" 21:17:21 Wow. 21:17:24 Gregor: fancy 21:17:36 evincar, I guess that would be a thing for discussion 21:17:43 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 21:17:56 Except for "All positions are at our Menlo Park, CA location." 21:17:57 Gregor: lady gaga is their suit designer. 21:18:08 Oh. :( 21:18:10 That country. 21:18:25 Well, I moved from New Hampshire to California for a job. 21:18:30 And am away from my girlfriend. 21:18:32 So... 21:18:40 ...wouldn't recommend it. 21:18:50 Sgeo: maybe you'll meet edison's ghost 21:19:06 This company seems amazing though https://www.transcriptic.com/ 21:19:32 Hey look bootstrap. 21:19:36 https://www.transcriptic.com/about/jobs 21:20:51 Looks pretty neat. 21:20:56 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 21:21:07 Yes, rawirc has no macros, filters, settings, etc; many things it doesn't do, so it seems not a very good IRC client to me 21:22:09 -!- monqy has joined. 21:24:20 As I recall, it was more an interesting exercise than anything else. 21:24:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:26:17 (It doesn't entirely help that I don't know how I feel about my gf) 21:26:39 Yay let's start ranting about my personal problems in #esoteric publically logged again 21:27:04 I'll just note that long-distance relationships kinda suck. 21:27:29 Not that that should stop you, *but* just accept it'll be a bit of suckitude you have to deal with. 21:27:45 I feel weird about the idea of staying here if my only reason for doing so was her, especially since I'm still not sure I feel that strongly 21:27:58 I don't want to make this sort of decision 21:28:19 Except for "All positions are at our Menlo Park, CA location." // You're complaining about potentially moving to MENLO PARK??? 21:28:44 Wait, what's so great about Menlo Park in particular? 21:28:52 Nothing, but it's the bay area. 21:29:46 So, nothing great about Menlo Park in particular, but it's in the right region of California? K. 21:36:14 -!- Taneb has changed nick to TAaneEb. 21:36:46 -!- TAaneEb has changed nick to Taneb. 21:37:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:04 What's so great about the bay area? 21:40:41 It's programmer Mecca. :P 21:42:48 Just found an airline price fare comparer thingy 21:43:13 It apparently works by popups 21:43:22 google.com/flights 21:44:09 ooh ty 21:46:54 I like hipmunk.com 21:53:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK:_Reloaded 21:53:29 oh dear i never realised this was from scotland 21:54:55 Menlo Park is pretty expensive to live in. 21:55:38 Phantom_Hoover: lol, that is absolutely delightful. 21:55:40 The Caltrain is okay for anything along the main backbone of the peninsula though. 21:55:44 Can't wait for the 9/11 flight simulator. 21:55:53 So you don't really need a car. 21:56:09 I'm within walking distance of work in a not-too-expensive city though. 21:56:11 (Burlingame) 21:56:13 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 21:56:21 Though though though. 21:57:32 Also does it make sense to implement sum types in terms of union and product? 21:57:41 It's not like I have a "real" interview yet 21:57:55 It's just a phone call to talk about my background 21:58:52 evincar: a struct with a tag and a union is more or less the usual implementation, no? 21:59:14 oerjan: Yeah just making sure it didn't sound stupid when put in writing. 22:00:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:00:48 But I dunno if the tag is really a value or type or what. 22:01:06 Compile-time value. 22:01:23 I mean when it comes to e.g. totality checking. 22:01:37 I don't like how in Haskell I can't make an ad-hoc subset of a sum type. 22:02:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:03:00 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 22:03:27 E.g. data ABC = A | B | C; a x = case x of { A -> "a"; _ -> bc x }; bc x = case x of { B -> "b"; C -> "c" } 22:04:42 bc :: ABC -> String but should :: (B | C) -> String 22:05:19 Supersets I'm not as sure about. 22:05:28 Because it implies you can mix constructors from different data types. 22:05:32 I did once think of a kind of type system which would allow such things, as well as some other things 22:05:33 Or that data types are entirely ad-hoc. 22:05:45 Which I'm pretty sure is not decidably inferable. 22:05:48 But probably checkable. 22:05:53 evincar: i am talking about C structs. i think if you want to express a sum type in a _type safe_ way without building it in as a primitive, then you need dependent typing. 22:05:56 But is different and might not be suitable for all of the same things, and I also don't know if it work. 22:06:19 oerjan: (forall r. (a -> r) -> (b -> r) -> r) ~ Either a b 22:06:23 or are we disallowing rank-2? 22:06:34 elliott: oh hm i guess 22:06:47 that's just your standard church encoding I think 22:06:57 (forall r. (a -> b -> r) -> r) gets you (a,b) 22:06:58 evincar: ok so elliott's method works. 22:07:17 I have no idea the context, by the way. 22:07:35 elliott: but safely typing the actual struct memory layout you would use in C requires dependent typing, i think. 22:07:41 Working on a language. Considering implementing sums in terms of unions & products. 22:07:47 oerjan: right 22:08:21 oerjan: well, not quite, actually. I think GADTs are enough 22:08:34 So pseudocode Maybe a = Nothing \/ (Just, a) 22:08:38 evincar: do you mean c unions or are you actually putting something analogous to c unions in your language 22:08:43 Menlo Park? fuck the south bay 22:08:49 that's like 30 miles from a real city 22:09:05 oerjan: data Union a b c where { L :: a -> Union a b a; R :: b -> Union a b b } -- assume a tag-free runtime representation of this type 22:09:22 monqy: I mean union types in the type-theory sense. 22:09:32 "Sir, do you know how fast you were going?" "Um, 97?" "*whew*, that's a relief. Radar gun's working. Thanks for your cooperation." 22:09:33 evincar: what 22:09:39 oerjan: data Tag a b c where { TagL :: Tag a b a; TagR :: TagR a b b } 22:09:45 In particular idempotent: a \/ a = a 22:09:53 oerjan: data Either a b where { Either :: Tag a b c -> Union a b c -> Either a b } 22:09:56 oerjan: or such 22:10:01 elliott: Yes what. 22:10:02 Sgeo: south bay is suburban sprawl, don't make the mistake of thinking that anything in the "SF bay area" is like SF 22:10:16 evincar: what do you mean by type theory union and how does it differ from a sum type 22:10:21 evincar: btw i think ocaml has at least one way of treating sum types so that you can do subsets 22:10:47 i thought a union type was, like, untagged sum... 22:10:53 elliott: Sums are disjoint. I can differentiate the Ints in data AB = A Int | B Int 22:10:56 elliott: union and intersection types are a "thing" 22:11:00 right 22:11:09 But could not differentiate them in Int \/ Int because they are the same. 22:11:09 set theory all up in this 22:11:21 monqy: yes I know... 22:11:21 elliott: but imo it's an incredibly dumb dumb dumb foundation 22:11:22 If you treat types as sets which you sorta can. 22:11:25 monqy: does evincar know 22:11:35 It seems really problematic. :( 22:11:37 why's it dumb? 22:11:42 Bike: have you seen them 22:11:48 elliott: What does that say? Either is a constructor that takes a Tag and an Union? 22:11:54 FreeFull: yes 22:12:01 Is that a specialisation, or a general statement? 22:12:04 as for "programmer mecca" it's also the epicenter of the worst excesses of hacker culture, an environment which rewards these things rather than providing a reality check 22:12:04 monqy: in C I guess 22:12:05 and it uses GADT type magic to tie the tag's value and the union's branch together 22:12:09 so you can store Union without a tag 22:12:23 (this won't happen in practice, but it provides a /typing/ for this C-style sum type construction mechanism) 22:12:33 oh wait. 22:12:37 oerjan: Either can be simplified vastly of course 22:12:46 oerjan: data Either a b where { Either :: Tag a b c -> c -> Either a b } 22:12:57 there you *do* get the effectively "unboxed" representation. 22:13:17 elliott: What does c represent? The choice between element a and b? 22:13:51 if you use TagL, then c is fixed to a 22:13:56 if you use TagR, then c is fixed to b 22:13:58 so yes, effectively 22:14:02 Either is an existential type there 22:14:26 And both TagL and TagR are Tag? 22:14:34 are Tag howso? 22:14:37 TagL :: Tag a b a 22:14:40 TagR :: Tag a b b 22:14:40 I see 22:15:22 So would an example usage be Either TagL "something" 22:16:18 Even without this thing, I still feel weird for gf related reasons 22:16:26 Pretty sure she loves me much more than I like her 22:16:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:16:52 woops 22:16:54 Sgeo, wow the wording in that sentence... 22:18:00 Yay more Sgeo's personal life 22:19:13 You're making progress! 22:19:23 elliott: What happens if both a and b are the same type? 22:19:39 Also I should not be discussing my life in a publically logged channel 22:19:45 FreeFull: TagL :: Tag Int Int Int; TagR :: Tag Int Int Int 22:19:47 It seems like nothing in particular happens. 22:20:03 oerjan: oh I guess Tag is sort of a sum type :P 22:20:07 Sgeo, especially one in which your name, university and general area are known. 22:20:20 oerjan: but runtime-wise, it's just Bool. 22:20:38 as opposed to (Either a b) which has the actual value 22:20:42 Wait, they're both constructors. Nevermind 22:21:35 Either TagL x = Left x; Either TagR x = Right x or something 22:23:52 yes 22:24:38 -!- saijanai_ has quit (Quit: saijanai_). 22:27:17 elliott: pretty 22:27:28 oerjan: ty 22:30:13 so in principle you could probably split any adt and maybe gadt into gadt parts where each part was essentially a tag (no arguments to constructors) or a product (only one constructor for the gadt) 22:32:03 pretty lame principle imo 22:32:18 monqy: whats lame about it 22:32:41 oerjan: well, you can turn into any gadt into a possibly-existential type given type equality 22:32:45 (value or constraint level) 22:32:51 so it should work for pretty much anything 22:33:22 oerjan: in fact I think my Tag type may be enough to do anything you want 22:35:20 elliott: i dont really know how to describe it........maybe its just a bad ol gut feeling 22:35:44 /last covariant 22:35:47 Er. 22:35:52 Well, I guess I said it in here too. 22:36:10 monqy: well we have a "use-case" 22:36:17 i.e. compiling down to C structs/unions 22:41:03 `addquote well what is time imo: an illusion [...] elliott, I think it's more like a burrito If you have too much of time you get ill But damn it felt good You only get out what you put in, unless your time was made by someone else, which isn't as fun burritos don't work like that! 22:41:07 940) well what is time imo: an illusion [...] elliott, I think it's more like a burrito If you have too much of time you get ill But damn it felt good You only get out what you put in, unless your time was made by someone else, which isn't as fun burritos don't work like that! 22:41:13 oerjan: oh, that reminds me 22:41:29 we managed to get the line ", as time itself is only an abstract approximation" into our most recent paper 22:41:37 actually my supervisor wrote it and probably didn't realise how profound it sounded 22:41:59 excellent 22:42:07 not sure if it'll be accepted 22:42:52 `?hh thyme 22:42:54 thyhme? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:42:57 `?hh oregon 22:42:59 Ohrehgohn ihs the hohme ohf Ohrehgahno. Grehgohr uhsehd to tahke cahre ohf the cohlohr schehme, buht thehn he lehft. 22:43:11 `learn Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. 22:43:15 I knew that. 22:43:25 that won't be funny out of context 22:43:41 it's not particularly funny even in context 22:43:55 shachaf: Did you see the h-peak in http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_h.html there? 22:44:52 Oh, fizzie++ 22:44:57 …we have a page dedicated to how often the letter h is used? 22:45:04 also, what causd it? 22:45:07 or don't we know? 22:45:24 ais523: All the bin/?hh bin/h etc. mess yesterday, I'm pretty sure. 22:45:31 We have a page for every letter, apparently. 22:45:32 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:45:38 fizzie: I missed that 22:45:41 and somehow I'm glad I missed it 22:45:45 The other letters would feel bad if only h had a page. 22:45:56 `?hh ais523 22:45:57 There's also been a spike in the usage of HackEgo 22:45:57 ais523: ITYM "mihssehd" HTH HAND 22:45:57 Ahgehnt "Iä" Smihth ihs ahn ahliehn wihth a strahnge ahllehrgy to ahviahn bohdy cohvehrihng, whihch he ihs tryihng to rehtroahctihvehly prehvehnt frohm ehvehr ehvohlvihng. 22:46:45 does that just add an "h" after every vowel? 22:46:50 http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_ø.html doesn't exist, it's outrageous! 22:46:55 -!- carado has joined. 22:47:05 ais523: Between (approximately) every vowel-consonant pair. 22:47:05 ais523, in the middle of every vowel-consonant pair 22:47:30 right 22:47:36 almost the same except when you have multiple vowels in a row 22:47:44 nice spike in http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_q.html 22:47:56 i mentioned that spike 22:47:58 i dont understand it 22:48:01 What happened in early october 22:48:04 hhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhuhhuhhuhu 22:48:26 I was thinking about ten's complement arithmetic, and what it would mean to have something like :5:382.3 where the part between :: repeats forever 22:48:29 hmm… do BF Joust program names cause spikes in the stats? 22:48:35 they probably cause spikes in "j" 22:48:43 qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq q qqq qq 22:48:45 elliott: could that have been one of those days when you spammed q a lot 22:48:46 FreeFull: 10-adic? 22:48:51 That may have been it 22:49:01 monqy: i don't spam it that much 22:49:02 qqqqqqqqqqqqq 22:49:07 just sometimes when the urge strikes me 22:49:09 the qs start flowing 22:49:10 `pastelogs qqqqqqqqq 22:49:12 http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_x.html 22:49:15 I wonder what a good name would be for the quantity you need to add to get zero 22:49:21 FreeFull: You could get that kind of number by reversing the digits in a rational? 22:49:26 I'm almost tempted to look up logs for the x spikes. 22:49:27 Is that a meaningful operation? 22:49:32 For example, 0 - :3: = :6:7 22:49:32 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-14 22:49:41 No output. 22:49:45 FreeFull: are you not describing 10-adic arithmetic 22:49:45 `pastelogs qqqqqqqqq 22:49:51 That's where the q-spike comes from 22:50:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6327 22:50:07 :0:384 is a standard positive number, :9:374 can be thought to describe a negative number 22:50:16 Taneb: Can you look up the x spikes? 22:50:20 02:02:06: whitespacer: i think elliott wants something from you 22:50:20 02:02:08: -!- ais523 changed the modes of #esoteric: +m 22:50:20 02:02:19: -!- ais523 changed the modes of #esoteric: -m 22:50:20 02:02:26: it's like when a baby cries but it's elliott and q 22:50:20 I have no idea what :5:43 is, but you can still do arithmetic with it just fine 22:50:29 02:02:44: and you don't know if the baby wants food or diapers or what 22:50:29 shachaf: There's a lot of fungot underload stuff with 'x's in them in 2012-10-25. 22:50:30 fizzie: in a repl fashion by specifying the language mzscheme use the except form. get the pdf at http://www.unmutual.info/ documentation/ sicp.pdf, the html version is pretty slow 22:50:35 no, seriously, don't reinvent p-adics, they're right there. 22:50:36 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-25 22:50:36 if I +m the channel 22:50:41 either I'm trying to stop a botloop 22:50:43 The october x-spike 22:50:49 or something really badly is happening 22:51:02 punctuation marks might be more interesting, actually 22:51:03 oh 22:51:04 it was the navi guy 22:51:08 because they tend to reflect esolang syntax 22:51:09 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-04-28 22:51:10 i agree ais523, something really bad happened that day 22:51:14 The april x-spike 22:51:16 navi guy joined the channel 22:51:34 ELLIOT SHUT THE FUCK UP 22:52:07 im here when desperate measures must be taken 22:52:08 elliott: which day was that? 22:52:12 involving lots of letters 22:52:15 adjacent to one another 22:52:21 Bike: Isn't p-adics for prime bases only 22:52:22 ais523: 2012-10-14 apparently 22:52:30 btw, how annoyed are you when people misspell your name? 22:52:57 oerjan helps, elliott 22:53:01 End of http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-09-02 22:53:08 FreeFull: doing it with non-primes doesn't work as well but is still what you are describing 22:53:11 ais523: um 22:53:13 ais523: i am kind of used to it 22:53:21 hmm 22:53:27 with a name with multiple plausible spellings 22:53:31 you'd think people would just look at the nick 22:53:35 I thought "Elliott" was the normal spelling? 22:53:40 02:44:46: -!- naviISGOD has joined #esoteric. 22:53:40 02:44:49: navi navi navi 22:53:41 02:44:55: hey listen 22:53:44 it's quite rare for other people to misspell ais523 22:53:47 "Eךןםא" ןד איק מםרצשך דפקךךןמעץ 22:53:50 Ahem. 22:53:51 aiz523 22:53:54 (I misspell it all the time, but I normally correct it before sending) 22:53:54 "Eliot" is the normal spelling. 22:54:00 (my most common misspelling is ais532) 22:54:16 ais523: To be fair you have a NUMBER at the end of your nick. 22:54:25 A number. Who does that? Does that even count as spelling? 22:54:29 Maybe it's miscounting. 22:54:36 who was it who refused to take me seriously as long as I had a number at the end of my nick 22:54:41 I was once booked into a hotel under the name of "Random" 22:54:43 but treated me perfectly fine when I changed to scarf? 22:54:46 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf. 22:54:47 ais523, I don't typo your nick because I always type ai 22:54:49 The world? 22:54:50 I should do this more often 22:54:50 Ngrams shows Elliott and Elliot roughly equal. 22:54:53 hi scarf 22:54:54 Bike: I was just thinking about it randomly 22:54:55 Eliot is an outlier because of T. S. 22:54:57 scarf, ^ 22:55:06 Why did you use to have a number at the end of your nick? 22:55:08 Vorpal: yeah, but when I'm typing my own nick, I'm not there so it doesn't tab-complete 22:55:16 FreeFull: just sayin, if the material's already there you can use it. 22:55:17 shachaf: randomly assigned username 22:55:17 `run echo "No-one was ever called Elliot." 22:55:19 No-one was ever called Elliot. 22:55:24 evincar: T. S. Eliot was the best el+iot+, though. 22:55:30 `run echo "No-one was ever called Elliot." > wisdom/elliot 22:55:33 No output. 22:55:37 scarf, oh okay? In xchat I can tab complete my own nick, pretty sure it ends up last if there are multiple possibilities though 22:55:37 `? elliot 22:55:39 No-one was ever called Elliot. 22:55:50 can't test, I'm the only one with v 22:55:52 Vorpal: yeah but I can't when I'm not there 22:55:58 scarf, hm 22:56:03 `run sed -i s/-/\ / wisdom/elliot 22:56:06 No output. 22:56:06 like, when I'm joining a channel in webchat 22:56:09 err, a server 22:56:14 how can I tab-complete the nick then? 22:56:18 scarf, true 22:56:23 -!- Taneb has changed nick to VorTaneb. 22:56:27 it's like trying to tab-complete in mkdir, I don't create directories often but when I do I try to tab-complete all the time 22:56:28 Vorpal, you can test now 22:56:30 and get annoyed when it doesn't work 22:56:35 test 22:56:47 -!- VorTaneb has changed nick to Taneb. 22:56:49 VorTaneb, well okay it still completes to last spoken 22:56:52 that is kind of stupid 22:57:05 so after my line "test" it went to me instead 22:57:08 `?hh Vorpal 22:57:10 Vohrpahl ihs reahlly bohrihng. Sehriouhsly, you hahve no ihdea. 22:57:17 Is that really true, Vorpal? 22:57:25 shachaf, no it is a lie 22:57:27 `?hh Taneb 22:57:29 Tahnehb ihs noht ehlliohtt, no mahttehr who you ahsk. He ahlso ihsn't a rahbbi ahlthouhgh he hahs prehtehndehd ihn the pahst. (see ahlso: d-mohduhlehs) 22:57:30 I think you and elliott just have a "disagreement". 22:57:40 `?hh shachaf 22:57:42 shahchahf sprø sohm sehllehri ahnd cohsplayhs Nehpehta Leihjohn ohn weehkehnds. 22:57:43 `?hh d-modules 22:57:45 D-mohduhlehs ahre juhst mohduhlehs ohvehr the rihng ohf dihffehrehntiahl ohpehrahtohrs. Tahnehb ihnvehntehd thehm. 22:57:57 `? d-modules 22:57:58 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 22:58:03 heh 22:58:06 good job inventing d-modules Taneb 22:58:21 what use are they 22:58:25 maybe you can work your way up to c-modules and eventually a-modules?? 22:58:41 Taneb is even listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-modules 22:58:48 Taneb: inventing mathematical constructs isn't hard, the problem is finding uses for them 22:58:50 shachaf, shouldn't the goal be s-modules? 22:59:05 btw I never understood why S-rank was better than A-rank in games 22:59:06 I'm trying to remember which nick I used when I wanted to get accidentally nickpinged a lot 22:59:09 to me, it makes no sense 22:59:10 was it "this"? or is that taken? 22:59:16 right, that one isn't taken 22:59:20 -!- scarf has changed nick to this. 22:59:31 They're useful in the Reimann-Hilbert correspondence 23:00:07 this: Why do you care whether that's taken? 23:00:13 this, can you explain that btw? Why S-rank in a game is above A-rank 23:00:17 YOu're this, not that. 23:00:18 shachaf: because I don't like using other people's nicks without their permissions 23:00:29 Vorpal: because if you need a rank above A, you have to call it something 23:00:35 and @ would be excessively geeky 23:00:37 so people just went with S 23:00:38 fair enough 23:00:42 Vorpal, I always assumed it stood for "Special" 23:00:43 this: Sure, so you should ask whether this is taken. 23:00:45 some games use a star instead 23:00:50 this, why not just make A the top rank instead? 23:01:00 and shift everything down by one 23:01:05 Taneb, hm, I guess so 23:01:12 Vorpal: for the same reason that giving a game a review score below 8 means you hate it 23:01:16 even if it's, like, 7.9 23:01:53 7.̅9 23:02:04 this, I generally ignore any sort of scoring, it is mostly useless compared to reading the review. Unless it is something like 2/10 or such 23:02:09 ...7777.9 23:02:19 Bike: p-adics are the devil 23:02:21 OK, my client is pinging me on every join/part 23:02:34 don't say that sort of thing about freefull! 23:02:38 this, the score system of game reviews is utterly silly 23:02:38 apparently, "… has joined this channel" pings you if your nick happens to be one of the words in the interface message 23:02:49 lol 23:02:53 this, sounds like a bug 23:02:55 this makes some sense 23:04:17 haha 23:04:48 S-rank S-bahn 23:05:12 hellogan 23:07:58 hichaf 23:09:33 haha, this day of navi 23:09:43 Arc_Koen invented a BF derivative that maps all the commands to the same keyword 23:09:51 this seems better than most BF derivatives :) 23:10:36 Are they differentiated by position or something? 23:10:49 Vorpal: huh, you apparently own "join" 23:10:59 this, correct 23:11:10 hm idea, a score system where the scores go 1-7, 8, 9, 9.1, 9.2 - 9.9, 9.91 - 9.99, etc. 23:11:21 Vorpal: someone just /nicked to it in another channel and went "hey, it's registered" 23:11:25 this, and my irc client does not highlight on join or part messages 23:11:30 and I checked, and thought "huh, I know the person who registered that" 23:12:11 i.e. you can have as many 9 digits as you want, but then at most one other 23:12:24 log scores eh 23:12:42 oerjan: a little like TeX version numbers, except with 10 rather than pi 23:13:47 this, btw I turned off highlights except on the form of ^Vorpal[,:] in #NetHack 23:14:02 other than that I don't get many spurious highlights 23:14:04 Vorpal: because people talk about you a lot? 23:14:08 oh, #nethack, not #esoteric 23:14:10 that makes more sense 23:14:25 this, yeah they even named a weapon after me in nethack! 23:14:28 XD 23:14:35 there's a speedrunner with your name 23:14:39 I get a little confused sometimes 23:14:41 oh? 23:14:46 no clue who that is 23:19:11 i preferred it more when you were anmaster... 23:19:55 AnMaster? No! Not Markov! 23:20:17 Taneb: huh, I tried to see an anagram in that 23:20:19 but there isn't one 23:20:31 i suspect a fungot quote 23:20:31 oerjan: why don't i continue this... emacs thing... with scheme buffer 23:20:38 fungot: not you too :( 23:20:38 this: try another classic. htdp is much easier to compile 23:20:47 `quote anmaster no 23:20:48 `quote anmaster 23:20:51 4) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 65) I'm 100% of what sort of magic was involved in it \ 89) fungot!*@* added to ignore list. AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 104) AnMaster: intercal-72 c-intercal clc-intercal j-intercal yes all v 23:20:52 579) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov 23:21:13 ah, that one 23:21:55 Why am I dismayed by a commercial for Yugioh anime even though I am a fan of (i forget the name) no Go? 23:22:47 yugioh anime characters are cheating 23:23:00 it's always amusing to see them do something in the anime and people try to stat the anime effects of the cards 23:23:11 i preferred it more when you were anmaster... <-- why? 23:23:31 less generic 23:23:41 well, okay that is true 23:23:46 but it was a bit of a silly nick too 23:24:19 Phantom_Hoover: anyway yes "sorry you were offended" is what I meant by "except less sincere" <-- i'd suggest "we would like to apologize to anyone who were reminded of previous traumatic experiences by our advertisement." 23:24:56 my code was crushed once :( 23:26:34 crush tactic 23:26:37 so easy 23:26:54 coq out and crush proofs 23:27:45 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:28:01 monqy: do you use crush 23:28:05 i think i used crush once and then felt dirty 23:28:17 crush is really slow 23:28:24 i have better ways to do things now 23:28:40 have you Transcended the Crush monqy 23:28:47 sure 23:28:56 theres nothing to feel dirty about using crush tho 23:29:29 iirc it's ugly i forget why 23:29:43 well i guess i just mostly hate tactics in general 23:30:34 elliott, what is "Crush" in this context? 23:30:40 the crush tactic 23:31:06 I see 23:31:47 what does it do? 23:32:00 crush 23:32:10 general purpose "solves easy stuff" coq tactic 23:32:39 have you Transcended the Easy Stuff monqy 23:32:48 sure 23:33:09 even monoids 23:33:18 perhaps it can just tell you what tactics you should have used instead 23:33:21 and then you can replace it with those 23:33:42 that's kind of missing the "point" of tactic proofs as i see them 23:34:22 the "point" is to be ugly stateful write-only messes :( 23:34:29 nope 23:34:44 the accidental point 23:34:56 if it's write-only it's a bad tactic proof 23:35:08 all the best proofs are read-only 23:35:13 unfortunately no one has managed to write them 23:35:19 imo the whole structure of the tactics system encourages such write-only proofs 23:35:28 the internals are ugly too 23:35:29 it can solve monoids eh 23:35:35 internals as in how the tactics are actually written 23:35:43 shachaf: I like to write proofs in such a way that you can understand how they work 23:36:04 but people keep telling me to turn them round into the version that just comes out of nowhere 23:36:07 ugh whatever i dont feel like arguing this. i hate tactics too but there's ways to make them palatable 23:36:12 my advice is to read them backwards, they often make more sense that way 23:36:21 this: Don't listen to people! 23:36:53 shachaf: but I want them to accept my papers :( 23:37:22 I'll accept your papers instead if you like. 23:38:03 yeah, wouldn't have quite the sort of academic clout I need :( 23:38:40 shachaf journal of shachaf 23:38:57 the conference proceedings of SIGCHAF 23:39:13 this: are you saying i'm not clouty enough for you :'( 23:39:16 a conference about ways to dodge MANPADS would actually be kind of cool 23:39:28 hehe 23:39:31 monqy: sure you can write palatable C code too 23:39:39 doesn't mean it doesn't encourage unpalatable code by its structure 23:39:43 when you said "dodge" i thought first of like a guy trying to jump out of the way 23:39:46 elliott: sure 23:39:58 defensive martial arts training against shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missiles 23:40:38 that would look cool as hell and also you would die but it would still look cool 23:40:54 unfortunately it mostly makes me remember burning people failing to jump out of their tanks 23:41:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:42:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vljapydLfGQ yeah here we go 23:45:18 -!- this has changed nick to scarf. 23:45:20 -!- mekeor has quit (Quit: too late to apologize). 23:46:31 Bike, was that on the news or reddit or something 23:47:21 uh, i wouldn't know? it's posted by somebody evidently collecting syria videos 23:47:34 http://www.youtube.com/verify_controversy?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DvljapydLfGQ 23:47:36 verify controversy 23:47:44 controversy verified 23:47:47 well i got linked to it by a friend about an hour ago 23:47:51 weird 23:47:59 these things do tend to spread around, though 23:48:10 What you say, a link spread on the Internet? 23:48:17 no way 23:51:41 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:52:00 you, too, can be part of the next-gen social warfare revolution!! 23:52:14 I've seen Link spread on the Internet. 23:52:24 social warfare 23:52:37 is that like when the IDF pays people to tweet nice things about them 23:53:05 That's just regular warfare. 23:53:08 or when i have to avoid reading the comments in broken english about how anti-assad people are subhuman, yes 23:55:16 (the guy in charge of the IDF social outreach though, god) 23:56:13 i'd've expected god to hold a more senior post, frankly 23:57:00 heh, it's funny because you deliberately misinterpreted my use of an interjection as an identifying name of the subject of the previous clause. 23:57:25 heh, it's clever because you explained the joke 23:57:33 it's funny because it's not 23:57:51 anyway i'm just sayin' the dude dresses up in blackface and that shit ain't fly, it ain't fly at all. 23:57:59 haha wow 23:58:01 pretty fly for a white guy 23:58:18 "Obama style" was i think what he said along with it 23:58:38 though i think blackface being ultra offensive is something of a US-specific thing 23:58:44 i mean it's not great anywhere but 23:58:53 no, it was offensive when the bbc did it in the 60s too 23:59:08 The BBC did it in the 60s? 23:59:35 It's principally a US thing for it to be offensive, yes. 23:59:54 Yay, history. 2013-01-27: 00:00:07 "it's like The Big Bang Theory but for black people instead of nerds" 00:00:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:00:49 the fuck is with this connection 00:01:06 kmc: i'm already horrified. 00:01:18 anyway apparently they stopped the blackface in '69 00:01:35 what blackface are you talking about? 00:01:46 uh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_and_White_Minstrel_Show 00:02:05 well now. 00:02:54 wait! 00:03:03 no, they totally kept it up until '78 00:03:04 * Bike waits 00:03:17 they stopped it for 10 episodes 00:03:22 " (by this point the blackface element had been reduced)" great 00:03:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:03:55 `addquote "it's like The Big Bang Theory but for black people instead of nerds" 00:03:56 last stage show was in '87 00:04:07 941) "it's like The Big Bang Theory but for black people instead of nerds" 00:04:18 Phantom__Hoover: political correctness.................. killing our wholesome black and white minstrel show rtaditions......... 00:04:38 although it obviously wasn't very good at it 00:05:39 so, does anyone know how carry-lookahead works 00:08:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Todhunter 00:08:28 wow, what a name 00:09:09 Phantom__Hoover: haha jesus christ at the picture of that minstrel show 00:09:10 (i just clicked) 00:09:51 with the black-and-white photo you almost don't notice it's racist 00:09:56 The show appeared in a prime-time slot for twenty years, but during the 1970s its popularity declined, partly because of the style of music becoming dated and partly because of an increase in racial awareness. It was axed by the BBC after several unsuccessful attempts to change the format. Mitchell was awarded the OBE in 1975. 00:10:02 no i pretty much noticed it was racist 00:10:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:10:05 sorry for cancelling your racist as hell show, here's an OBE in return 00:10:21 oh dear, he was from scotland too 00:10:28 not a good day for scotland in #esoteric 00:10:36 we're just finding out what we knew all along 00:10:40 scotland is terrible 00:10:41 was he from hexham ._. 00:11:10 look man we were just happy the english had found someone else to pick on 00:11:19 "While the show started off being broadcast in (genuine) black-and-white, the show was one of the very first to be shown in colour on BBC Two in 1967." 00:11:25 HO HO HO "(genuine)" 00:11:29 HILARIOUS, WIKIPEDIA 00:11:58 my parents insist the snooker was the very first color programme on the BBC 00:12:01 http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2002/aug/29/broadcasting2 00:12:01 hmm, if they were in blackface shouldn't it be white-and-white? 00:12:09 "During the nine years that the show was broadcast in black-and-white, the black-face makeup was actually red as black did not film very well." 00:12:15 scarf: I think that was true? 00:12:20 was expecting something a bit stronger from the guardian 00:12:22 I didn't say it was false 00:12:25 those poor native americans 00:12:44 elliott: oh, that reminds me, supposedly Spock was supposed to be red-faced 00:12:53 but that looks black in black-and-white 00:13:10 i heard he was supposed to be green... 00:13:14 er... was star trek filmed in black and white at some point? 00:13:27 no, but it was broadcast at a time when no-one had color tv yet 00:13:39 shachaf: Great Firewall is now MITMing GitHub with a self-signed cert, it seems 00:13:39 oh, huh 00:13:46 kmc: nice 00:13:47 Homebrew's curl -k looks realllly clever now 00:13:50 olsner: yes, we can't have too many black people in Roddenberry's post-everything utopia 00:13:50 what, china? 00:13:52 yes 00:13:57 that would be TOO FAR 00:14:17 elliott, omg it makes sense now 00:14:25 checking certs is so uncool 00:14:32 why memory alpha articles are all in the past tense 00:14:47 kmc: you know the first person I ever saw doing the "'curl | interpreter' to install" trick was why the lucky stiff in like... 2005-2007 00:14:48 post-present-tense utopia?? 00:15:02 elliott: surely it was done before then? 00:15:03 kmc: not one of his best ideas 00:15:17 it's such a bad idea it must have been tried before 00:15:21 scarf: if it was I didn't see it -- and most of this stuff seems to be pretty close to the "Ruby community" so I suspect they got it from him 00:15:25 Bike, but they're not there yet! 00:15:37 milk still exists, although there are no breasts for it to come from 00:16:01 elliott: for bonus points, nc | interpreter 00:16:13 when why did it it was disclaimed saying it was essentially a terrible idea and linking to the actual script so you could read it yourself 00:16:18 this can go wrong in all the same ways, and it's easier to make it do so 00:16:19 it was cute then 00:16:21 now it's just depressing 00:16:36 kmc: wow I just looked up what curl's -k option is 00:16:38 did they really 00:16:50 the only safe method is to save the code, /then/ read, /then/ run 00:17:00 but _why is a god and we must worship him 00:17:08 and read it in something with no terminal control sequence injection exploits or the like 00:17:56 elliott: ksplice easy install uses curl | sh :( but at least it's SSL with a real cert and not curl -k 00:17:58 elliott: -k is to not verify certs, by the look of it 00:18:01 correct 00:18:03 aka --insecure 00:18:14 kmc: a bit of proper _why worship would do a lot of these idiots good 00:18:17 well, it's still more secure than using non-https http 00:18:28 cut down on a lot of ego at the very least 00:18:39 didn't why spontaneously combust or something 00:18:43 'This option explicitly allows curl to perform "insecure" SSL connections and transfers. All SSL connections are attempted to be made secure by using the CA certificate bundle installed by default. ' 00:18:54 ' This makes all connections considered "insecure" fail unless -k, --insecure is used.' 00:19:04 this is a mind bogglingly poor explanation of what the option does 00:19:09 Bike: he deleted all his accounts and went back to living as not-why the regular employed programmer 00:19:21 elliott: that was probably a sensible decision 00:19:22 yes, it very nearly says that -k makes curl secure 00:19:25 elliott: did he leave because the rails community is terrible or? 00:19:30 elliott, wasn't it over something petty 00:19:30 like the bodhisattva 00:19:41 kmc: not afaik and I don't think that would fit him 00:19:49 I don't think he was ever really involved in the Rails community? 00:19:53 Phantom__Hoover: nobody "knows" what it was over except him and whoever knows him personally 00:20:12 I suspect he just got tired 00:20:14 hm 00:20:16 Sounds reasonable. 00:20:20 not rails but ruby? or what 00:20:26 kmc: so, how much security research is predicated on "half of the users are going to get their asses infected anyway, how do we avoid sql slammering" 00:20:27 Yes, Ruby. 00:20:27 shachaf: well he was "involved" insofar as it is kind of hard to separate ruby from rails 00:20:31 elliott: it's wearing being a celebrity even if you're a celebrity as obscure as I am 00:20:33 maybe he lives on as a normal person 00:20:33 i see 00:20:35 but yes he never did rails stuff afaik 00:20:44 unless mocking DHH counts as doing rails 00:20:45 shachaf: did you know Ruby was started in 1995?? 00:20:50 elliott: that counts as doing god's work 00:20:53 kmc: Yep! 00:21:05 kmc: did you know python started in like 1990 00:21:12 it's weird that a language can be obscure for 10 years and then suddenly become hot shit in another country 00:21:17 elliott: yeah 00:21:20 kmc: perl is only 4 years older than python 00:21:24 how amazing is that 00:21:30 i think with python it was less sudden though 00:21:32 I totally learned Ruby before Rails was cool. 00:21:36 yeah 00:21:41 python was the hip unix thing in late 1990s AIUI 00:21:45 partially due to esr I think 00:21:51 fuck that guy 00:21:55 but yes 00:21:55 yes 00:21:57 "the python paradox" 00:22:06 was written in 2004 00:22:10 with Ruby it was a combination of the fact that dave thomas randomly found out about ruby 00:22:20 and decided to write a whole english introduction-slash-reference-book about it for no apparent reason 00:22:24 the wendy's guy?? 00:22:27 because it had like no english documentation 00:22:28 elliott: should I feel bad for not knowing who dave thomas is? 00:22:35 and then DHH read it I guess 00:22:40 so is fuck that guy sort of like pbuh but for esr? 00:22:41 he invented wendy's, a popular American fast food restaurant 00:22:45 scarf: probably not 00:22:55 also he died in 2002 so "probably not the same guy" 00:22:56 "pbuh", what 00:23:01 kmc: the pragmatic programmer guy 00:23:03 i.e. "nobody" 00:23:06 scarf: so no 00:23:22 fair enough 00:23:28 elliott: should I feel bad for knowing who dave thomas is? 00:23:29 who is DHH? 00:23:31 Ruby strikes me as a rebellion against Java 00:23:33 Bike, 'peace be upon him', muslims say it as a mark of respect for muhammed aiui 00:24:02 oh 00:24:08 scarf: no 00:24:10 well, it should be 00:24:14 kmc, omh 00:24:14 because well, fuck that guy 00:24:16 *omg 00:24:18 were you here 00:24:28 when esr appointed himself our patriarch in absentia 00:24:41 wtf my first initial and last name showed up in Ghost in the Shell 00:24:42 if ruby started in 1995, I think Java hadn't existed for long enough to warrant a rebellion against it 00:24:45 i've never seen pbuh abbreviated like that though 00:24:47 scarf: ruby is actually lisp + objects + smalltalk + perl 00:24:50 as in matz has actually said this 00:24:54 elliott: yeah 00:24:55 well I guess + objects is redundant there 00:24:59 that's a fucking weird equation 00:24:59 smallatlk *and* objects? 00:25:01 Phantom__Hoover: what 00:25:03 also it's older than Java I think 00:25:04 but its community has quite an attitude of "let's change the internals of things on the fly" 00:25:12 is it because he half maintains a befunge interpreter or something 00:25:21 Java: 1995. Ruby: 1994 00:25:22 er 00:25:22 Java: 1995. Ruby: 1995 00:25:28 hmm 00:25:30 kmc, he made c-intercal 00:25:30 coincidence? or conspiracy?? 00:25:30 so Ruby can't really be a reaction to Java at all 00:25:33 then abandoned it 00:25:34 when does C++ date from? 00:25:34 oh right 00:25:47 oh and yeah, esr and I are both doing equal lack of work on C-INTERCAL atm 00:25:47 scarf: 80s 00:26:01 then knuth somehow got involved and esr's ego shot through the roof 00:26:04 scarf: C++ lay dormant for nameless millenia at the bottom of the ocean 00:26:11 kmc++ 00:26:50 in strange aeons even garbage collection may die? 00:27:00 Phantom__Hoover: perhaps the easier way to explain it is, I can excuse Knuth for never having heard of me and vaguely remembering that ESR had an INTERCAL interp 00:27:09 I can excuse him for never having heard of Claudio Calvelli, too 00:27:28 and the J-INTERCAL guy, I can't even remember who he is 00:27:50 lisp + objects + smalltalk + perl + cayenne pepper + potato + pinch of salt 00:27:55 Is that INTERCAL written in J? 00:27:58 It should be. 00:28:07 shachaf: Java, sadly 00:28:15 how did knuth not hear of the winner of the WOLFRAM PRIZE for PROVING WOLFRAM RIGHT 00:28:18 it's an INTERCAL to JVM bytecode compiler, I think 00:28:23 J is "much cooler than" Java. 00:28:30 that actually sounds a bit cool, scarf 00:28:37 hurry up and dissuade me from this thought 00:28:39 as well as "shachaf" 00:28:46 I remember having to fix a J-INTERCAL-specific bug I introduced into CADIE 00:28:56 (as well as being vaguely surprised that anyone bothered to try) 00:29:07 Phantom__Hoover: is "fuck that guy" also the pbuh for wolfram? 00:29:15 yes 00:29:16 shit 00:29:19 i forgot 00:29:20 cool 00:29:32 don't be disrespectful to wolfram, fuck that guy, remember to say fuck that guy 00:29:49 maybe we could personalise it 00:30:09 fuck that guy in doubly exponential time? 00:30:16 kinky 00:30:37 hm is there such a thing as tetration time 00:30:41 should be imo 00:30:43 doubly exponential time? is that e^e^x? 00:30:45 or e^x*2? 00:30:53 the latter seems a little redundant 00:30:54 e^e^x, as i understand 00:31:09 yes, of course, the latter would be a constant factor, and fuck constant factors. 00:31:28 reminds me of a reddit debate about whether O(1) is or isn't the same as O(0) 00:31:41 that sounds like a complete waste of time? 00:31:58 Bike: it's /reddit/ 00:32:03 the purpose of being there is to waste time 00:32:12 in a manner that's occasionally vaguely productive 00:32:25 Did they talk about O(1/n)? 00:32:26 but i don't use reddit and i've still been linked to interesting posts there! 00:32:29 O(1) is the same as O(0), they're both x^0 00:32:34 Well, in O terms 00:32:42 Multiples of x^0 00:32:58 FreeFull: OTOH, O(1) definitely grows faster 00:33:04 even with the standard definition in terms of limits 00:33:15 speaking of reading things on the internet, this thing about anthropology has a guy who keeps going on about epistemology and levi-strauss, and it bugs me 00:33:20 O(monoids) 00:33:25 O(♥) 00:33:31 O(<3)? 00:33:45 $TEXAS 00:33:47 fix(O) 00:45:32 00:48:57: javad3v: hi 00:45:41 hey, apparently I've used threat-his on people too 00:48:44 `quote offence 00:48:45 No output. 00:48:57 i think for things that go to 0 you want to use o() not O()? 00:49:02 hmm 00:49:03 * kmc forgets this stuff 00:49:14 `pastlog offence 00:49:17 can anyone actually remember the differences between o, O, Omega, etc. reliably? 00:49:32 they use them all over the place in one of my books and it confuses the hell out of me :( 00:49:36 Bike: yeah, o() is less than, O() is less than or equal to, capital Theta is equal to 00:49:43 2012-02-24.txt:19:37:12: quintopia: Wellll, since I'm assuming you don't know what you're doing (no offence), I'd assign half a day or so to the task. 90% of that will be reading http://wiki.nginx.org/WordPress. 00:49:49 damn you 00:49:53 (this is not mathematically rigorous, but easy to remembre) 00:49:54 well O / Ω / Θ is easy enough 00:50:00 Bike: take that back, please, it doesn't really sound like something to damn people over 00:50:09 ok, heaven you. 00:50:09 scarf, wp sez o() is <=?? 00:50:09 upper / lower / both bound 00:50:14 think about what you juts said 00:50:20 Phantom__Hoover: O is <=, o is < 00:50:25 wait, bless you 00:50:27 there we go 00:50:31 yeah, that sounds about right :) 00:50:49 Oh it defines them in a different format. 00:50:53 i think that evens out with the damning, so along with the shitty "heaven" confusion when you die you'll probably end up in like the troposphere 00:51:31 it's more the sentiment expressed, whether or not anyone involved actually believes it 00:51:54 going by the literal meanings of the words involved, I'm not sure if a worse insult is even theoretically possible 00:51:58 and yet it's considered quite mild 00:52:00 i'm not sure what "heaven you" would actually mean. it's kind of ungrammatical 00:52:05 e^x dx dx, e^y dy 00:53:02 scarf, erm, christian hell varies wildly in unpleasantness depending on who you ask. 00:53:25 Phantom__Hoover: there are people who consider it pleasant? 00:53:31 that would sort-of contradict the definition 00:53:39 sure, even dante had limbo as pretty nice 00:54:20 there are also lots of exciting arguments about hell and theodicy that i'm so glad i don't give a fuck about any more 00:54:55 hey, did we even work out whether /ˈæmbiːɛf/ is remotely usable for programming? 00:55:05 that was a good langugae 00:55:07 *language 00:55:16 scarf, anyway I really don't get this, it would make sense if zzo38 did it maybe. 00:55:30 remember to put "remotely usable for programming" in the advertising. 00:55:36 Phantom__Hoover: I dislike swearword decay 00:55:57 "damn"'s been pretty "decayed" since like medieval times 00:56:14 scarf: fuck that 00:56:26 scarf, so you aren't actually personally upset by it? 00:56:39 When I get a new computer, I'm going to put XenClient on it I think 00:56:44 Phantom__Hoover: I am, although I conclude that it's probably irrational to be 00:56:51 Do games work well under XenClient? 00:57:21 Phantom__Hoover: I have a lot of irrational beliefs 00:57:25 Phantom__Hoover: personally i'm not really that concerned but i'd rather not worry scarf if he does actually care for reasons i don't understand 00:58:23 Bike, well like I said if it was zzo38 I could maybe understand but with scarf it just seems like a weird sort of contrarianism? 00:58:25 "It's possible to (via dead-reckoning) always determine whether you're on an odd or an even tape element" amazing. 00:58:37 Phantom__Hoover: really don't give a damn 00:58:44 hmm 00:58:56 scarf, your opinions on 'don't give a damn' 00:59:04 Phantom__Hoover: put it this way: zzo38 is a lot more internally consistent than I am 00:59:12 Phantom__Hoover: I can't reasonably assign a meaning to it, so it doesn't bother me 00:59:46 do i need to start cursing in dungan or something? i mean, that would be amusing so i may actually do that, but 01:00:10 oh shit dungans are real people 01:00:14 I also guess I also have several other thoughts on the matter, but they are too wide-ranging and not directly relevant, so I will save them for The Manifesto. 01:00:19 my first thought was "aren't they from star wars" 01:00:28 I didn't really notice that sentence the first time through 01:00:33 dungans are pretty boss imo 01:00:34 in retrospect, isn't it somewhat ominous? 01:00:42 speak chinese....... in russian 01:05:25 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:05:29 i miss cpressey a lot 01:06:42 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:06:49 -!- fizzie has joined. 01:10:20 -!- Franklin-Jesus has joined. 01:10:41 did fizzie just... quit 01:10:48 Phantom__Hoover: pingout 01:10:59 fungot left at the same time and didn't come back 01:10:59 fizzie: fungot please 01:11:04 or in elliott-speak, rip fungot 01:11:22 01:11:40 but fizzie doesn't... quit 01:11:50 join in #Social-Vzla :) 01:12:00 ho Franklin-Jesus 01:12:05 er 01:12:06 hi 01:12:07 hi 01:12:15 `welcome Franklin-Jesus 01:12:16 Franklin-Jesus: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:12:22 thanks bro 01:12:47 my english is bad :s 01:13:07 Franklin-Jesus: hi please go away and stop spamming : ) 01:13:08 where are u from? 01:13:14 scarf: hi please kick this guy for spamming : ) 01:13:28 oh, wow, sorry 01:13:32 was reading the navi logs 01:13:38 didn't realise we had an actual spammer here 01:13:43 I'm sorry 01:13:44 Franklin-Jesus: are you a human or a bot? 01:13:51 sounds human enough 01:13:59 monqy: I prefer to assume it's a spambot 01:14:01 what is this? 01:14:04 that way I can have more fun Turing-testing it 01:14:08 and eventualy trying to get it into a botloop 01:14:41 ^ul (:a*:SS):a*:SS 01:14:48 oh, fungot isn't here 01:14:53 fizzie, kick scarf for encouraging spammer 01:14:57 then kick spammer 01:15:35 -!- thutubot has joined. 01:15:52 +ul (:a*:SS):a*:SS 01:15:52 :a*:SS(:a*:SS):a*:SS(:a*:SS) 01:15:58 whoops 01:16:03 +ul (:a~*:SS):a~*:SS 01:16:04 (:a~*:SS):a~*:SS(:a~*:SS):a~*:SS 01:16:05 there we go 01:16:12 wanted to write a double-quine 01:16:21 i can speak spanish and english 01:16:23 :) 01:16:32 i can speak english too 01:16:39 but my english is bad 01:16:51 Some other people in here can speak other language too (and sometimes does), but is mainly in English. OK 01:17:08 ok men 01:17:15 > x ++ show x where x = "x ++ show x where x = " 01:17:17 :1:13: parse error on input `where' 01:17:17 :1:13: parse error on input `where' 01:17:44 Franklin-Jesus, what was the last thing i said 01:17:44 FreeFull: hmm, is it that where doesn't work like that? 01:17:47 or something else? 01:17:56 scarf: where doesn't work like that 01:18:16 It only works in definitions and let statements 01:18:19 ah, OK 01:18:29 was that an attempt at mirroring the structure of the Underload quine in Haskell? 01:18:38 hmm 01:18:47 I wonder if such a quine can be translated almost directly into FORTH 01:18:52 I'm guessing no, due to the compilation step 01:19:13 Well, a haskell quine is main = print (x ++ show x) where x = "main = print (x ++ show x) where x = " 01:19:29 Phantom_hover: I can speak English and Spanish 01:19:47 Franklin-Jesus: and you get it twice because of thutubot 01:19:53 > ap(++)show"ap(++)show" 01:19:55 "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\"" 01:19:56 "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\"" 01:19:59 > let x y = "let x y = " ++ y ++ " in x " ++ show y in x "\"let x y = \" ++ y ++ \" in x \" ++ show y" 01:20:02 "let x y = \"let x y = \" ++ y ++ \" in x \" ++ show y in x \"\\\"let x y =... 01:20:03 "let x y = \"let x y = \" ++ y ++ \" in x \" ++ show y in x \"\\\"let x y =... 01:20:04 thutubot.................................. 01:20:09 > text $ let x y = "let x y = " ++ y ++ " in x " ++ show y in x "\"let x y = \" ++ y ++ \" in x \" ++ show y" 01:20:11 let x y = "let x y = " ++ y ++ " in x " ++ show y in x "\"let x y = \" ++ y... 01:20:12 let x y = "let x y = " ++ y ++ " in x " ++ show y in x "\"let x y = \" ++ y... 01:20:13 Why are there two haskell bots in here 01:20:13 is there any reason why an irc spambot would do anything other than spam and leave? 01:20:17 That use the same damn syntax 01:20:18 looks like i did it right 01:20:27 kmc: Perhaps spam and stay? 01:20:32 kmc: gain our trust 01:20:34 always double check your code 01:20:47 i dont understand 01:20:52 Who's thutubot and why is it evaluahaskelling? 01:20:55 :t 1 01:20:56 Num a => a 01:20:57 Num a => a 01:21:07 :t (.) 01:21:08 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 01:21:08 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 01:21:15 thutubot..... 01:21:23 what is this? 01:21:24 cuckoobot 01:21:26 What's the correct term, front-end or frontend? Backend or back-end 01:21:27 ? 01:21:41 Sgeo: are you trying to look professional 01:21:44 > let unsafeCoerce v = z where z :: v; z = v where aux = const v in unsafeCoerce 'a' :: Int 01:21:46 Couldn't match type `t' with `v1' 01:21:46 `t' is a rigid type variable bound by 01:21:46 ... 01:21:47 Couldn't match type `t' with `v1' 01:21:47 `t' is a rigid type variable bound by 01:21:47 ... 01:21:50 Hmph. 01:21:52 -!- Franklin-Jesus has left. 01:21:55 :t (&) 01:21:57 a -> (a -> b) -> b 01:21:57 a -> (a -> b) -> b 01:22:02 :t (.~) 01:22:04 ASetter s t a b -> b -> s -> t 01:22:04 ASetter s t a b -> b -> s -> t 01:22:07 thutubot who are you thutubot 01:22:08 > let y = print (x ++ show x) where x = "> let y = print (x ++ show x) where x = " 01:22:10 not an expression: `let y = print (x ++ show x) where x = "> let y = print ... 01:22:10 not an expression: `let y = print (x ++ show x) where x = "> let y = print ... 01:22:16 Oh dammit 01:22:20 needs in y 01:22:25 Sgeo, thefreedictionary.com says front-end 01:22:26 how does thutubot know about caleskell and lens!!!!! 01:22:31 That makes quinehood more complicated 01:22:32 > hi 01:22:34 'a' 01:22:34 'a' 01:22:40 Whoa. 01:22:47 thutubot is just copying lambdabot?????????????????? 01:22:54 > a 01:22:55 I defined that hi in /msg lambdabot 01:22:55 a 01:22:55 a 01:22:58 > a*3 01:23:00 a * 3 01:23:01 a * 3 01:23:04 i cant believe it took you this long to figure that out 01:23:07 Knows about Expr too 01:23:09 @echo 01:23:09 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo"]} rest:"" 01:23:09 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo"]} rest:"" 01:23:13 Oh 01:23:18 It literally copies lambdabot 01:23:18 @quote lambdabot 01:23:19 lambdabot says: Couldn't match kind `?? -> ? -> *' against `(* -> *) -> * -> *' 01:23:19 lambdabot says: Couldn't match kind `?? -> ? -> *' against `(* -> *) -> * -> *' 01:23:21 shachaf: imo you should make lambdabot say something funny 01:23:26 like a pun! 01:23:31 > "a pun" 01:23:32 "a pun" 01:23:33 "a pun" 01:23:44 monqy: imo i can't because i'm not a lmabdaobot admin???? 01:23:49 :-0 01:23:54 * :-) 01:23:54 monqy: "try elliott" 01:24:08 badlmaobot 01:25:07 > "" 01:25:07 @msg monqy something funny 01:25:09 :1:2: 01:25:09 lexical error in string/character literal at character '\S... 01:25:10 :1:2: 01:25:10 lexical error in string/character literal at character '\S... 01:25:31 maobot sounds like a good bot 01:25:32 scarf: What's going on with thutubot? 01:25:44 scarf: it's a long-standing bug 01:25:48 where it repeats everything lambdabot says 01:25:54 "bug" 01:25:58 I never bothered to fix it because I bring it in here so rarely 01:26:02 test 01:26:06 that's a pretty awesome bug 01:26:09 test failed 01:26:14 yap 01:26:54 test 01:26:58 wait, IRC doesn't work like that 01:27:12 and I can't be bothered to forge the message from the server 01:27:28 IRC doesn't work like that scarf 01:27:28 IRC doesn't work like that scarf 01:28:08 scarf, ...why does it do that 01:28:12 just... why 01:28:23 pretty random bug 01:28:48 it's a bug in an easter egg / hidden feature that once successfully trolled elliott 01:28:54 ah 01:28:56 I don't think the easter egg works any more 01:28:58 but the bug still exists 01:29:08 +haskell 2+2 01:29:11 yeah 01:29:21 +quit 01:29:25 oh 01:29:27 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 01:29:29 +quit 01:29:39 hmm :( 01:29:40 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:29:42 Bike: maobot is a bot to play Mao, I guess? 01:29:43 lol 01:29:44 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf. 01:29:45 FreeFull: hmm, is it that where doesn't work like that? <-- hugs (rip) supported that syntax 01:29:55 Freenode have changed how they mark someone as identified 01:29:57 elliott: oh i was thinking communist but that would be good too 01:30:09 oerjan: What does the haskell 98 specification say? 01:30:15 rip hugs 01:30:16 rugs 01:30:30 FreeFull: The Haskell Report says that's not an expression. 01:31:48 elliott: btw, is it standard to write "fuck" immediately after screwing up an oko pyramid? 01:32:04 scarf: I don't know anything about standards 01:32:07 shachaf: So it's a lambdabot problem? 01:32:07 I do it because it's annoying 01:32:14 Because lambdabot only does expressions 01:32:14 FreeFull: No. 01:32:18 in their native channel there is a bot that kicks you when it happens 01:32:20 Rather than ghci magicry 01:32:23 so if there's anything standard it's probably that 01:32:26 FreeFull: Well, it wouldn't work in ghci either. 01:32:45 True 01:32:46 > let quine = x ++ show x where x = "x ++ show x where x = " in quine 01:32:48 "x ++ show x where x = \"x ++ show x where x = \"" 01:33:02 It works in let expressions 01:33:04 haskell has things other than expressions? 01:33:21 Bike: x = y isn't an expression 01:36:31 scarf: is thutubot's code available? 01:36:56 oerjan: I don't know; it's available in the sense that I don't mind posting it 01:37:20 shall I put it on sprunge or somewhere? 01:37:29 yes please 01:38:25 Can you do pattern matching in an if? 01:38:37 As in in the condition 01:38:38 oerjan: http://sprunge.us/JTUW?thutu 01:38:58 you can see how old the codebase is just by looking at the IRC commands 01:39:09 last modified oct 10 2008 01:40:10 scarf: that contains a password hth 01:41:00 oh bleh 01:41:24 > (\x -> if a <- x then a else 3) 4 01:41:25 :1:13: parse error on input `<-' 01:41:29 Nope 01:41:30 good thing it was a single use insecure one 01:42:12 -!- thutubot has joined. 01:42:31 scarf: in the line /^=:lambdabot=![^ ]* PRIVMSG [^ ]* =:(.*?)(=r)?=x/--PRIVMSG =#esoteric =:$1=r=n=x/ 01:42:34 wait, what the hell is that supposed to do, don't you need a do block 01:42:37 > (\x -> let a | (b,3) <- a = 0 | otherwise = 3 in a x) (4,3) 01:42:39 The function `a' is applied to one argument, 01:42:39 but its type `(t0, t1)' has n... 01:42:39 The function `a' is applied to one argument, 01:42:39 but its type `(t0, t1)' has n... 01:42:43 change the second [^ ] to [^# ] 01:42:54 (i think) 01:42:57 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:07 which syntax did hugs support? 01:43:22 Hugs> x where x = 5 01:43:22 5 01:43:47 as an expression? or as a REPL special case? 01:43:55 oerjan: password changed 01:44:07 REPL special case 01:44:11 scarf: what about my bugfix suggestion? 01:44:18 scarf: can you update the sprunge accordingly? 01:44:24 ok that is more sane 01:44:29 oerjan: it's using lamdabot commands that don't even exist 01:44:31 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 01:44:34 so it needs more of a fix than that 01:44:58 oerjan: looks like my practice of using weak but unique passwords for things that might be pastebinned accidentally has paid off 01:45:00 @run exists too 01:45:02 Not in scope: `exists'Not in scope: `too' 01:45:02 Perhaps you meant one of these: 01:45:02 ... 01:45:13 kmc: in haskell 1.old, where was an expression 01:45:18 so (x where x = ()) was a valid expr 01:45:34 why did they remove it? too much parsing ambiguity? 01:45:57 you could take the Verity approach and require parens at the least sign of ambiguity 01:46:01 Sounds kind of ambiguous to me. 01:46:26 Even if it isn't ambiguous on its own, it's definitely ambiguous if ou want it to work for the things current-where works for. 01:46:28 scarf: @run exists. but all my fix is trying to do is to ignore lambdabot messages sent to channels. 01:46:34 > '\34' 01:46:36 Scoping over multiple bindings and all that. 01:46:36 '"' 01:46:42 Perfect 01:46:53 oerjan: you can take over maintaining thutubot if you like 01:47:03 although actually knowing thutu would be helpful 01:47:11 kmc: who knows 01:47:19 kmc: well where is useful because you can go across multiple clauses 01:47:35 but hey there have been haskell versions where all they did was make things worse by ruining them when they were good before 01:47:39 so who knows??? 01:49:52 o 01:50:17 Remember Haskell 1.4? 01:50:19 Good times. 01:50:37 scarf: well my main point in asking for the code was to see if that bug was trivial to fix, and it looked to me like it was, based only on the fact that there was a part of the regexp which obviously matches the recipient. 01:50:47 yeah, there are a bunch of trivial to fix bugs 01:50:49 > let x = print (y ++ init $ show y ++ "\34 in x") where y = "let x = print (y ++ init $ show y ++ \"34 in x\") where y = " in x 01:50:50 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 01:50:51 with actual ty... 01:51:21 hey, remember when this channel was active enough that we had to make #esoteric-blah for spammy things? 01:51:25 > let x = print (y ++ (init $ show y) ++ "\34 in x") where y = "let x = print (y ++ (init $ show y) ++ \"34 in x\") where y = " in x 01:51:26 active and ontopic enough, that is 01:51:27 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 01:51:27 arising from a use of ... 01:51:32 Oh dammit 01:51:40 One last try 01:51:51 > let x = (y ++ (init $ show y) ++ "\34 in x") where y = "let x = (y ++ (init $ show y) ++ \"34 in x\") where y = " in x 01:51:53 "let x = (y ++ (init $ show y) ++ \"34 in x\") where y = \"let x = (y ++ (i... 01:52:05 Not quite 01:52:14 you realise I gave a working quine along those lines before... 01:52:46 > text $ ap (++) show "> text $ ap (++) show " 01:52:48 > text $ ap (++) show "> text $ ap (++) show " 01:53:00 > (\x -> x ++ "\"" ++ x ++ "\"") "(\x -> x ++ show x)" 01:53:01 :1:36: 01:53:02 lexical error in string/character literal at character ' ' 01:53:03 Jafet: Sorry, you need to start the line with a space. 01:53:07 wow that was dumb, nevermind 01:53:51 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 01:54:33 `echo space 01:54:34 space 01:54:52 ^echo space 01:54:57 Well, a working lambdabot quine technically is something like > fix (\x -> x ++ show x) "> fix (\x -> x ++ show x)" 01:55:05 @tell fungot hi 01:55:06 Consider it noted. 01:55:06 I think 01:55:14 Wait, no 01:55:20 elliott's seems fine to me. 01:55:24 It doesn't take into consideration that lambdabot stringifies everything 02:03:23 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/233673/lexical-closures-in-python 02:03:25 Fuck Python 02:03:33 `run function x { printf "%s%q" "$1" "$1"; }; x \`run\ function\ x\ \{\ printf\ \"%s%q\"\ \"\$1\"\ \"\$1\"\;\ \}\;\ x\ 02:03:34 ​`run function x { printf "%s%q" "$1" "$1"; }; x \`run\ function\ x\ \{\ printf\ \"%s%q\"\ \"\$1\"\ \"\$1\"\;\ \}\;\ x\ 02:03:48 hi 02:04:11 @google fuck python 02:04:13 https://gist.github.com/1022976 02:05:10 Sgeo: for the love of god why do people keep using for loops for this garbage 02:05:33 Does Python have a better looping operator? 02:05:46 Python for is more aptly described as foreach 02:05:55 how about map 02:06:03 why do people expect the variable to be rebound, i honestly don't get it 02:06:40 Because in good languages it is? 02:06:44 sure seems like mutability causes a lot of bugs and misconception due to its fundamentally bad nature for structuring programs huh 02:06:47 huh huh huh 02:06:50 the answer is yes 02:06:50 in C it's an obvious goto loop, in Python it's a slightly less obvious goto loop 02:07:05 imo shut your face elliott 02:07:09 Bike: are you even like a lisper. what are you 02:07:18 Common Lisper I think 02:07:19 choose your fucking side so I can shoot you if it's the wrong one 02:07:31 just 02:07:33 why is it "wrong" 02:07:41 sounds like you're afraid of judgement 02:07:44 ps this isnt even about the for loop any more 02:07:48 I just want to know whether to hate you or not 02:07:50 it sets the fucking variable, you're using fucking python, you know what assignment is 02:07:50 BiKE iS A sCHeMEr 02:07:53 it's a good thing to know right 02:07:53 just hate me ok 02:07:56 no I already do 02:07:58 I'm just refining it okay 02:08:02 do it more 02:08:03 feed me the information!!!! 02:08:04 HATE ME MORE 02:08:06 FEED ME 02:08:09 I'M RIGHT HERE 02:08:14 TAKE ME NOW 02:08:16 I'M NOT GETTING FED 02:08:18 :( 02:08:20 v. hungry 02:08:24 Is this what gay sex is like 02:08:30 gay PLT sex 02:08:32 it's a sad, sad sight 02:09:06 Bike: so I'm just going to take Sgeo's word and assume you're a CLer unless you state otherwise 02:09:13 Sgeo: also the example is always that "what if want to accumulate a list of closures in a loop" thing that i've never seen in real code but i guess somebody might use it somewhere??? 02:09:13 I can understand why you wouldn't say it yourself since it's pretty embarrassing 02:09:20 is it 02:09:29 hm i think i should make some anti-scheme joke here but i don't know any 02:09:38 well have you ever read the CL spec 02:09:40 like really read 02:09:42 i mean wow 02:09:47 most of it 02:09:54 elliott is scared of the hyper. 02:09:56 wait Bike is a CLer?? 02:09:56 Bike, I'm working on a problem (for some website that does stuff) and I want to accumulate a list of closures. 02:09:57 well, the hyperspec, not ansi, i don't have money 02:09:58 how could you Bike 02:09:58 also there's the thing where your language isn't elegant *or* practical!! 02:10:07 ok 02:10:11 Not really in a for loop particularly, but the corresponding list comprehension also had that issue 02:10:14 pretty bad place to be in imo 02:10:32 Yeah, common lisp is so bad, even paul graham doesn't use it 02:10:44 It feels, like, a hundred years old 02:10:47 Sgeo: What's the language du jour? 02:11:05 Sgeo: why. explain 02:11:08 shachaf, codeeval doesn't accept Smalltalk solutions nor Racket solutions 02:11:18 So back to Java? 02:11:29 Bike, want to take a tuple and for each of 4 directions get a new tuple 02:11:49 monoids monoids monoids monoids monoids monoids 02:11:50 so easy 02:11:55 Maybe I forgot how to think imperatively 02:11:56 so what are you closing over 02:12:07 The direction 02:12:23 why don't you just accumulate the tuples? 02:12:25 Bike: also there's the thing whereby people call CL a functional language. 02:12:30 because they're stupid. 02:12:33 elliott: trust me that annoys us too 02:12:35 `quote common.lisp 02:12:36 No output. 02:12:39 Bike: yes but then the thing is... 02:12:43 `quote common 02:12:44 31) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" \ 616) Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you th 02:12:46 Bike: the joke is on you for using a language that isn't functional 02:12:51 while realising it isn't 02:12:51 !!!!! 02:13:01 how could i be so wrong 02:13:05 `quote Sgeo 02:13:08 54) What else is there to vim besides editing commands? \ 68) Where's the link to the log? THERE'S NO LOG. YOUR REQUEST IS SUSPICIOUS AND HAS BEEN LOGGED. \ 101) And... WTF is it doing. :( Is it sexing? \ 110) what's the data of? [...] Locations in a now deceased game called Muta 02:13:19 Bike: i heard your language of choice doesn't use {- -} comments............................................. 02:13:29 (creegan) 02:13:39 {- -} looks like a smiley 02:13:40 i thought if you talked about comment syntax kmc punched you until you were dead. 02:13:42 Bike: lo, you think you have transcended the blub, but nay, i knoweth the blub that surpasseth even that which paul graham divined 02:13:45 ps it's common lisp haskell forever 02:13:54 are you high 02:14:05 higher up in the language food chain than you yes 02:14:06 He's high on functional programming 02:14:22 Bike: btw haskell is the worst language 02:14:41 it lets you prove false?? 02:14:50 agda 4ever 02:15:10 for the record, i didn't mention i usually use CL because language arguments are dumb and i think everyone here is well aware of that and i'd rather listen to bizarre-ass jokes about oh let's say intuitionistic logic 02:15:20 in-jokes, rather 02:15:27 sorry but i need the occasional flamewar 02:15:33 `quote 616 02:15:34 616) Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by? 02:15:34 it's ok 02:15:41 like i still respect you as a person 02:15:48 i just have to hate you for being a cl user 02:15:49 haha that's funny 02:16:03 'elliott ruined me with constructivism' part 7: i have a logic module this term 02:16:06 it's classical 02:16:16 Bike: by the way by "usually use CL" do you mean "pretend to use CL on IRC because nobody actually uses it for real programs" 8) 02:16:20 elliott: apart from wrt DCSS, is there anything we really disagree with each other on, to flamewar levels? 02:16:32 scarf: do you acknowledge that @ is the best thing in the universe 02:16:37 Bike, on the other hand, hates elliott as a person but respects him for being a Haskell user. 02:16:40 roguelike design in general? 02:17:14 all roguelikes are bad 02:17:18 except robotfindskitten?? 02:17:39 Pop zen is bad 02:18:10 I actually played a few minutes of Crawl this week. 02:18:12 elliott: to be serious for half a second, it's because as a dumbass undergrad i don't really have "real programs" to write anyway, and i don't know shit about "real programs". 02:18:14 for the first time in months 02:18:35 Bike: wow way to give away your approximate age range 02:18:39 where's the fucking mystery Bike 02:18:42 Bike: elliott doesn't write "real programs" either. 02:18:44 you don't appreciate subtlety. JUST LIKE COMMON LISP 02:18:52 i know, shachaf. 02:18:56 elliott: That doesn't give your age range away? 02:19:08 shapr is an undergrad and he's 40-something. 02:19:11 real programs are only written by the hardcorest of AI lab hackers, on mount esr 02:19:32 hm this reminds me that i should look at those ancient AI programs written in CL again 02:19:33 shachaf: It does modulo outliers? 02:19:37 (they are completely fucking unreadable) 02:19:43 Bike isn't an outlier. 02:19:46 s/.$/?/ 02:19:52 am i ?? 02:19:59 Yes. 02:20:06 Oh 02:20:10 Anyway should I be an undergrad? 02:20:16 Would I be an outlier? 02:20:22 being an undergrad isn't so great 02:20:27 Being an undergrad sucks, just learn metalworking or something instead. 02:20:42 bike is younger than me actually :P 02:20:52 Aren't you like 600 years old? 02:21:04 shachaf: aren't you like 21 02:21:05 Not familiar with reptilian aging honestly. 02:21:12 stop making fun of me, I'm not that old ;-; 02:21:27 monqy: are you an overgrad 02:21:36 You don't look a day over 500, babe 02:21:36 shachaf: depends on how you look at it 02:21:38 in soviet russia, are you a leningrad 02:21:48 i don't know what that is 02:22:44 ._. 02:22:48 imo volgograd > leningrad 02:22:49 ... I'm only 23... that's... not really old... 02:22:55 Fiora: uhh that's pretty old 02:23:08 most mathematicians are burnt out by the time they're 23 02:23:11 Fiora, did you ever meet Lincoln? 02:23:19 He knew like everybody right? 02:23:23 Fiora: galois was dead for 3 years by the time he was your age "fyi" 02:23:43 Also he had true love. Do you have true love, Fiora? 02:23:55 ._. 02:24:14 ·_· 02:24:16 well, and something about polynomials, i guess 02:25:30 lots of things are named after galois 02:25:52 I guess I'm old 02:25:53 bleh 02:25:56 yes 02:25:56 Have you ever looked at Wikipedia's article on things named after Euler? 02:25:58 monqy: galois was named after galois for example 02:26:01 Sometimes I open it and just sob. 02:26:03 elliott: yes 02:26:14 lots of things are named after Euler too yes 02:26:20 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 02:26:29 what about things named after 02:26:31 Project Euler, euler's constant, euler-something constant, euler euler euler 02:26:33 NICOLAAS DE BRUIJN 02:26:48 de bruijn's name is probably cooler than euler's and galois's combined, yeah 02:26:51 I remember in complex analysis every single thing in the class had cauchy's name on it 02:26:56 a few things are named after de bruijn 02:26:58 (I'm barely exaggerating) 02:27:05 i also really like Catalan for some reason 02:27:08 DE BRUIJN: "COOLEST MATHEMATICIAN"????? "IMO YES" 02:27:13 maybe because Catalonia is a mystical Spanish thing i don't understand 02:27:25 (also because combinatorics is pretty cool, imo) 02:27:32 i love combinatorics 02:27:43 Shachaf, this is not a special occasion. 02:27:53 Hmm? 02:28:01 Combinatorics is not easy! 02:28:08 I didn't say it was easy! 02:28:14 You were implying it. 02:28:19 Utterances have context, shachaf! 02:28:23 Horrible, horrible contexts. 02:28:36 Combinatorics is easy 02:28:53 Bike: Given that I *refrained* from saying it was easy, you might infer that I was implying the opposite. 02:28:53 Fiora: Cauchy also has an advantage in that the Cauchy integral formula is the coolest thing to come out of math since negation 02:28:59 Bike: Also I don't know much about combinatorics. :-( 02:29:06 It's "pretty cool, imo" 02:29:09 imo too 02:29:16 google Analytic Combinatorics, it's free and also awesome. 02:29:21 Bike: did you know combinatorics is related to, like, types 02:29:24 "all over the place" 02:29:31 Isn't everything related to, like, types? 02:29:39 Combinatorics comes up a lot. 02:30:12 Maybe I should actually finish A=B (as if i'd understand it) 02:30:21 > compare a b 02:30:22 Bike: what kind of negation are we talking here 02:30:23 LT 02:30:35 or find some hip new book on combinatypics, thus earning back the trust of this channel 02:30:47 elliott: the kind with numbers that are "less than" "zero" 02:30:49 Bike: man, Zeilberger, am I right? 02:30:54 oh I hate that kind of negation 02:30:57 You are, like, so right, man. 02:30:57 logical ngeation is cool though 02:31:04 I am so right 02:31:06 I am always right 02:31:12 I thought you were a constructivist!!! 02:31:23 um, yes! 02:31:26 Bike: Actually there's remarkably little information about it. :-( 02:31:26 (a -> _|_) is pretty cool 02:31:29 Those guys are pretty far left 02:31:35 You should become a combiantorist-turned-type-theorist and publish papers. 02:31:42 shachaf: Ramanunjan was pretty cool 02:31:44 Bike: don't you think??? 02:31:44 Intuitionist hippies 02:31:51 elliott: "pretty cool, imo" 02:31:55 elliott: what about (α → ⊥) → ⊥ 02:31:59 Bike: because negation is like 02:32:01 contravariance 02:32:01 imo that's cooler than α 02:32:03 or the other way around 02:32:10 I actually don't think I'm going to go into math. If I can work types into what I want to do all the better though. 02:32:23 Hm, I can't decide if I hate Zeilberger's webpage. 02:32:35 Invent a function that does _|_ -> a 02:32:39 But only works on bottom 02:32:52 whoa zeilberger has a new webpage 02:32:57 since the last time I saw it 02:32:58 Tort law IN THE TYPE SYSTEM 02:33:01 On the one hand it's a trillion percent better than the average academic site. On the other, he knows what I did last summer, and in many of my previous lives. 02:33:12 And he does not take prisoners. 02:33:16 maybe because Catalonia is a mystical Spanish thing i don't understand <-- don't tell the catalonians they are spanish hth 02:33:21 Bike: this website used to be much better 02:33:22 i.e., worse 02:33:26 in terms of visual appearance 02:33:29 Is Haskell's type system turing-complete? 02:33:43 oerjan: I assumed. 02:33:50 FreeFull: What would that mean 02:33:55 FreeFull: no 02:34:03 inference is computable isn't it 02:34:10 except for some weird types that are maybe ghc only? 02:34:17 "I just don't know" 02:34:19 Bike: i refer to http://web.archive.org/web/20110614084818/http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/ 02:34:28 @google ghc undecidable 02:34:30 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/UndecidableInstances 02:34:30 Title: UndecidableInstances – Haskell Prime 02:34:32 Bike: GHC's type system is a very different thing from Haskell's. 02:34:33 Bike: ps YOUR IGNORANCE IS TYPICAL OF ONE WHO USES A LANGUAGE WITH A HORRENDOUSLY CRIPPLED TYPE SYSTEM 02:34:37 shachaf: I know. 02:34:55 elliott: does haskell have types with uncomputable membership??? don't think so 02:35:07 Bike: what does uncomputable mean here 02:35:12 elliott: ok i like his new site better jesus christ is this green on blue 02:35:32 elliott: you can express russell's paradox in the type system! "yay" 02:35:50 Or well, the set in question, I suppose. 02:35:51 Bike: also don't tell the spanish the catalonians _aren't_ spanish, hth 02:35:59 oerjan: Again, somehow I expected this. 02:36:00 guys should i sleep 02:36:02 kinda feel like i should 02:36:07 sleep sucks imo 02:36:43 sleep is wonderful and you should do it 02:36:47 > "no" > "yes" 02:36:48 False 02:36:54 Fiora: but it's also kind of terrible!!! 02:36:59 because when you're asleep it means you're not awake, see 02:37:05 > True > False 02:37:07 True 02:37:15 hey elliott remember back when i was terrified of sleeping 02:37:30 I don't get why Bool is an instance of Ord but ok 02:37:32 elliott: hey want to do the thing 02:37:32 elliott: If it would help I could link you a paper on injecting yourself with things that maybe don't actually remove pain in surgery, and then you couldn't sleep. 02:37:35 Phantom__Hoover: one day you will die : ) 02:37:46 is that a threat 02:37:56 oerjan: So, plot twist. Turns out Catalan... is Belgian. 02:38:00 elliott: (actually not now but later so maybe not because maybe you'll be asleep but who knows) 02:38:00 it',zs a threat.... from mother nature 02:38:12 shachaf: sure tomorrow 02:38:13 > foldr max [False,False,True] 02:38:14 Or well, was. He died at some point I guess? 02:38:14 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show 02:38:14 ([[GHC.Types.Bool]] -> [... 02:38:23 > foldr max [] [False,False,True] 02:38:23 Bike: why would I inject myself with something that maybe doesn't actually remove pain!! 02:38:24 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' 02:38:25 with actual type `GHC.Type... 02:38:27 I'm not even going to have a surgerys 02:38:30 > foldr max False [False,False,True] 02:38:30 Bike: don't tell the belgians they are spanish either. 02:38:32 True 02:38:51 There, a naive or 02:39:35 > foldr max False $ replicate (10^6) False 02:39:37 False 02:39:49 > foldr max False $ replicate (10^7) False 02:39:51 False 02:40:19 replicate takes an Int 02:40:27 Bike: THE MYSTERY IS KEEPING ME AWAKE HELP 02:40:32 > maximum $ replicate (10^7) False 02:40:36 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 02:40:41 > max True undefined 02:40:43 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:40:45 "Haskell is awesome" 02:40:56 > max undefined True 02:40:58 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:40:58 oerjan: Max isn't lazy on the second argument 02:41:02 Or the first 02:41:12 Can't be 02:41:22 it is if compare is. 02:41:26 which it *can* be. 02:41:33 > max (undefined :: ()) (undefined :: ()) 02:41:35 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:41:36 How would you do a lazy compare? 02:41:39 > max (undefined :: ()) () 02:41:41 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:41:43 > max (()) (undefined :: ()) 02:41:45 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:41:47 ugh, it behaves badly there 02:41:48 > compare True undefined 02:41:50 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:41:56 looks like the derived instances suck 02:41:57 > compare False undefined 02:41:57 > (((((()))))) 02:41:59 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:41:59 can't find file: L.hs 02:42:02 FreeFull: for instance, compare _ _ = EQ 02:42:03 for () 02:42:07 > compare undefined True 02:42:09 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:42:12 > compare undefined False 02:42:14 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:42:19 elliott: :( 02:42:37 oerjan: don't worry. @ definitions are maximally lazy. 02:42:42 @src Ord 02:42:42 class (Eq a) => Ord a where 02:42:42 compare :: a -> a -> Ordering 02:42:42 (<), (<=), (>), (>=) :: a -> a -> Bool 02:42:42 max, min :: a -> a -> a 02:42:42 elliott: Wouldn't that only be after the other pattern matches though 02:42:49 FreeFull: what 02:42:54 there is only one value of type () 02:43:13 Wait 02:43:15 You're right 02:43:31 > (\(\() -> ()) -> ()) () 02:43:33 :1:4: Parse error in pattern: \ () -> () 02:43:49 elliott: yay! 02:43:50 > (\((\() -> ()) -> ()) -> ()) () 02:43:52 () 02:44:04 elliott: they should use amb for full effect 02:44:12 oerjan: yes, clearly 02:44:15 who needs performance or sanity 02:44:17 () is great for base zero arithmetic 02:44:33 Just have to define a num instance 02:44:43 () is the counterpart to _|_ 02:44:56 Is () top? 02:44:58 Or cobottom 02:45:51 @help 02:45:52 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 02:45:54 @list 02:45:55 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 02:47:00 You can't define an instance in a let expression, can you 02:47:27 no 02:47:30 https://github.com/ekmett/reflection/blob/master/examples/Monoid.hs 02:47:36 "unless you're edwardk" 02:47:58 Nope 02:48:06 Damn 02:48:18 oerjan: I'm starting to sense a pattern. 02:48:19 Want to make a Num instance for () 02:48:33 elliott: Well, the chemical shuts down your muscles. That's basically like sleep, right? 02:49:21 Bike: the spanish were big on conquering things, hth 02:50:02 instance Num () where { ()+()=(); ()*()=(); negate ()=(); abs ()=(); signum ()=(); fromInteger _ =(); } 02:50:42 oerjan: Am I allowed to tell conquering things that they are Spanish? 02:50:45 That is the worst instance ever 02:50:53 It's not at all lazy 02:51:07 but it forms a group!!! 02:51:12 Bike: you use two spaces afte ra . too 02:51:15 you disgust me. should i sleep 02:51:17 hell maybe a ring, i forget 02:51:27 elliott: I READ IT IN A STYLE GUIDE ONCE OKAY 02:51:33 Actually Num has no laws but okay 02:52:03 who needs laws when we have axioms 02:52:06 instance Num () where { _+_=(); _*_=(); negate _=(); abs _=(); signum _=(); fromInteger _ =(); } 02:52:13 Better, Jafet? 02:52:31 good instance imo 02:52:55 Wait 02:52:58 That probably wouldn't work 02:53:02 Bike: style guide more like 02:53:05 sterile LIED 02:53:08 Oh 02:53:13 ghci doesn't complain 02:53:15 hi Bike 02:53:20 New Num instances are approved by a jury panel who give it a three-part score on originality, aesthetic merit, and use of applicative functors 02:53:23 whoa man that hurts :( 02:53:27 Works 02:53:27 shachaf: was that a disapproving hi 02:53:28 hi shachaf 02:53:38 monqy: no it was an "im back hi" 02:53:44 _ must be treated specially when next to other +"&$*"£!"* 02:53:44 monqy: Not every hi has to be disapproving! 02:53:45 hello i am here 02:54:43 instance Num () where (+)=const$const undefined; (*)=const$const undefined; negate=const undefined; abs=const undefined; signum=const undefined; fromInteger=const undefined 02:54:59 instance Num () where 02:55:09 aesthetically unmeritous sorry 02:55:24 () is the wrong kind for Functor 02:56:19 So can't be Applicative either ): 02:56:25 "Later, in 1849, Catalan was visited at his home by the French Police, searching for illicit teaching material;" 02:56:53 FreeFull: how about Const () 02:57:05 FreeFull: how about Proxy 02:57:27 monqy: did you hear Proxy was in base briefly but now they're maybe taking it out again 02:57:27 But something that is the correct kind for Functor is the wrong kind for Num. 02:57:32 :info Const 02:57:41 @info Const 02:57:42 Const 02:57:48 Real useful lambdabot 02:57:49 how many fucking bot prefixes are the- oh. 02:58:00 :t Const 02:58:02 a -> Const a b 02:58:07 thanks 02:59:48 Bike: newtype Const a b = Const a 03:00:06 cf.: const a b = a 03:00:20 Some of the names I don't like much so I would prefer Finalize instead of Proxy, Succ instead of Maybe, Nat8 instead of Word8, and so on. But, I don't know, what is your opinions of such things? 03:00:25 Bike: sounds unwise hth 03:00:38 that seems like a weird type but what do I know? that's right NOTHING *sobs* 03:00:40 oerjan: thanks 03:00:52 Bike: It's a great type! 03:01:12 Bike: It's even an Applicative functor. 03:01:29 instance (Monoid x) => Alternative (Const x) actually you can have too. 03:02:21 _ must be treated specially when next to other +"&$*"£!"* <-- _ belongs to the alphanumeric group of characters, not the operator ones 03:02:34 Const does have another meaning too, which is that (Codensity (Const x)) is like (Cont x) 03:02:40 oerjan: I see 03:03:58 I wanted to know where Const is defined though 03:04:18 @src Const 03:04:18 Source not found. My pet ferret can type better than you! 03:04:23 And (Density (Const x)) like (Store x) 03:04:26 weeeeeak 03:04:39 > t (0$0 `Const`) 03:04:41 can't find file: L.hs 03:04:44 > t (0$0 `Const`) 03:04:46 can't find file: L.hs 03:04:52 oops 03:04:55 > (0$0 `Const`) 03:04:57 The operator `Control.Applicative.Const' [infixl 9] of a section 03:04:57 must ... 03:05:04 FreeFull: there you go 03:05:11 And (CodensityAsk (Const x)) like ((->) x) 03:05:20 ...@hoogle might have been easier, mind you. 03:05:31 @hoogle Const 03:05:31 Prelude const :: a -> b -> a 03:05:32 Data.Function const :: a -> b -> a 03:05:32 Control.Applicative Const :: a -> Const a b 03:06:00 So does Haskell have S built in too 03:06:06 oerjan: Heheh, using a syntax error 03:06:13 > t 03:06:15 t 03:06:19 > t 3 03:06:21 The function `Debug.SimpleReflect.Vars.t' 03:06:21 is applied to one argument, 03:06:21 but... 03:06:31 And even, (Free (Const x)) like (Either x) 03:06:58 Could not find module `Control.Applicative.Const' 03:07:48 So, it actually makes a lot of things! 03:08:28 zzo, this would mean a lot more to me if I understood anything, but I don't. 03:08:29 Sorry! 03:09:01 Bike: It has ap. 03:09:08 > ap f g x :: Expr 03:09:10 Ambiguous type variable `a0' in the constraints: 03:09:10 (GHC.Show.Show a0) 03:09:10 ... 03:09:18 "cool" 03:09:19 :t ap 03:09:20 Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b 03:09:24 > ap (f :: Expr -> Expr) (g :: Expr -> Expr) x :: Expr 03:09:26 Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr' 03:09:26 ... 03:09:37 > ap (f :: Expr -> Expr -> Expr) (g :: Expr -> Expr) x :: Expr 03:09:38 f x (g x) 03:09:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:10:02 > let x 0 = x 0; x n = (x (n-1),x (n-1)) in x 3 03:10:05 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t1 = (t0, t1)Occurs check... 03:10:31 > let x 0 = x 0; x n = (x (n-1),()) in x 3 03:10:33 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t0 = (t0, ()) 03:10:51 kmc: Did you know if you press G in less while you're looking at a file it'll read to the end, tail -f-style? 03:11:00 > let x 0 = x 0; x n = ((),()) in x 3 03:11:02 ((),()) 03:11:03 (It also has actual tail -f mode, of course.) 03:11:06 > let x 0 = x 0; x n = ((),()) in x 0 03:11:07 useful 03:11:10 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 03:11:14 i was looking for that the other day 03:11:30 Can there be any monoid (not monad) transformers which is not applicative? 03:11:34 FreeFull: What are you playing at? 03:11:40 No idea 03:12:21 Could not find module `Control.Applicative.Const' <-- that's the whole qualified name, not the module 03:12:33 oerjan: Oh, duh 03:12:39 what's a monoid transformer? 03:13:30 maybe 'composition' and 'direct product' are monoid transformers? 03:14:29 Transformers are annoying. :-( 03:14:36 seems like there shouldn't be very many monoid transformers 03:14:37 Applicatives don't need transformers. 03:16:27 I don't mean applicative transformers. But applicatives make monoid transformers too. 03:18:32 so what is a monoid transformer? 03:21:01 I guess this is a language more sexist than Hebrew? 03:21:03 The language is best known for its system of noun classes, numbering four in total. They tend to be divided among the following semantic lines: 03:21:06 I - most animate objects, men 03:21:08 II - women, water, fire, violence, and exceptional animals[3] 03:21:11 III - edible fruit and vegetables 03:21:13 IV - miscellaneous (includes things not classifiable in the first three) 03:21:27 that sounds like it was probably misunderstood by whoever wrote that down. 03:21:31 also, how's Hebrew sexist? 03:21:48 Quite possible. 03:22:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ribbit). 03:23:18 I mean, is it just gendered nouns or what. 03:23:37 instance Monoid a => Monoid (Foo a) where { mempty = mempty; mappend x y = mappend x y; mconcat xs = mconcat xs; } 03:24:15 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:24:21 -!- DH____ has joined. 03:25:31 Everything is bottom :) 03:25:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:27:27 Ok, trying again where nothing is bottom 03:27:33 Wondering how to do mconcat 03:28:17 @src Monoid 03:28:17 class Monoid a where 03:28:17 mempty :: a 03:28:17 mappend :: a -> a -> a 03:28:17 mconcat :: [a] -> a 03:28:20 Wait, you don't have to do mconcat to have a monoid, do you 03:28:29 @src mconcat 03:28:29 Source not found. Do you think like you type? 03:28:34 mappend should be enough? 03:28:42 Seems so 03:28:50 FreeFull: there's a default instance for mconcat; it's just there in case you want to provide a more efficient implementation 03:29:01 instance Monoid a => Monoid (Foo a) where { mempty = Foo (mempty); mappend (Foo x) (Foo y) = Foo (mappend x y); 03:29:02 instance/implementation/whatever 03:29:05 What is mconcat anyway 03:29:06 } 03:29:22 mappend But On Lists i assume... 03:29:30 Jafet: foldr mappend mempty 03:29:34 it's a fold yes 03:29:45 would it be silly to ask why the monoidal operation is called append 03:29:56 arbitrary 03:30:09 It is actually an append for Monoid [a] 03:30:43 @instances Monoid 03:30:44 (), (a -> b), (a, b), (a, b, c), All, Any, Dual a, Endo a, First a, Last a, Maybe a, Ordering, Product a, Sum a, [a] 03:30:48 Funny, apparently () is an instance of Monoid already 03:30:52 mempty :: () 03:30:56 what's funny about it 03:31:02 I can see why 03:31:05 > mempty :: () 03:31:07 () 03:31:29 huh, now i understand why groups are categories of one object or whatever. weird. 03:31:33 It's like a clown. Some people think clowns are funny 03:31:45 i wonder if i'll ever understand grothendieck. do you understand grothendieck? 03:31:52 @hoogle (Monoid m) 03:31:52 Warning: Unknown type Monoid 03:31:52 Prelude undefined :: a 03:31:52 Control.Applicative unwrapMonad :: WrappedMonad m a -> m a 03:31:59 Bike: do you mean monoids are categories with one object, or groups are groupoids with one object? 03:32:19 monoids are categories with one object. 03:32:23 and "A group is a category with one object, in which all morphisms have inverses." 03:32:32 aka groupoid 03:32:36 right 03:32:42 @quote groupoidoid 03:32:42 No quotes match. Are you on drugs? 03:32:52 @quote monoidoid 03:32:53 says: And a semigroupoid with identities is called a monoidoid. 03:33:18 mathematicians, literally the worst at naming things 03:33:48 they usually name things by their name 03:33:56 c00kiemon5teroid 03:33:58 f(g(s)) f(ds) 03:34:04 yes, and that's a shitty way to name things. 03:34:22 Just look at Pacific islands. ridiculous 03:34:27 a semiapple with identity syndrome is called a blanabba 03:34:43 I know! lets name this method, "Newton's method" ! It will be unique 03:35:04 does identity syndrome have a cure ._. 03:36:08 Bike: Yes, fruit transformers 03:36:21 applying any cure to the identity syndrome just gives you the cure back. 03:37:18 Obviously CherryT Apple has no identity 03:37:39 You can inject yourself, but they say it is just homeomorphy. 03:38:54 raisins are just grapeoids in the cat allegory of endocarpum 03:39:12 aren't puns supposed to make sense 03:39:31 No 03:39:55 Stupid proof of the day: 03:40:25 Every countable ordinal number can be embedded in the rational numbers. The union of all countable ordinal numbers is uncountable. Therefore, the rational numbers are uncountable. 03:40:47 Good. 03:41:04 Checkmate. 03:41:39 Math should get a checkmate symbol 03:42:16 ∎ 03:42:33 ✓ 03:42:35 Jafet: Only constructivists have that. 03:42:39 It's called type-checkmate. 03:42:49 ''nice one shachaf`` 03:43:02 lenght $ [0] ++ ((%) <$> [1..] <*> [1..]) ++ ((%) <$> [(-1),(-2)..] <*> [1..]) 03:43:07 length* 03:43:11 monqy: wow whats with the new quotes 03:43:16 MATHEMATICAL_DOUBLE-STRUCK_CAPITAL_CHECKMATE 03:43:17 they're backwards 03:43:28 monqy: ✓⚢ 03:43:35 Apparently the "mates" in this case are lesbians. 03:43:37 gaaaaay 03:44:01 I propose 凸 03:44:01 Bike: you make a good point. The word "lesbian" *is* verbose. 03:44:25 The Han character for "protrude"? 03:44:27 :t (%) 03:44:28 Not in scope: `%' 03:44:29 Perhaps you meant `R.%' (imported from Data.Ratio) 03:45:06 Han mandarin pictograph for "fuck you" 03:45:17 FreeFull, I think that doesn't work out the way you expect 03:45:22 concave in japanese anyway 03:45:32 one of the few i got around to learning 03:45:32 :P 03:45:40 There exist rationals R that will not show up aftr any finite time T 03:45:43 er, convex 03:45:47 i tend to confuse the two 03:45:54 It's because the List monad sucks. 03:46:29 is elliott asleep 03:46:42 Sgeo: unrepresentable integers? 03:46:58 Also, I knwo there would be duplicate numbers with this code 03:47:07 FreeFull, just the ordering in which the List monad operates 03:47:15 hopefully. he's got a looooot of curare in 'im. 03:47:19 try using >>- :-) 03:47:27 Well, obviously it wont' work for infinite lists like this 03:47:43 :t (>>-) 03:47:43 > take 20 $ (,) <$> [0..] <*> [0..] 03:47:44 MonadLogic m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b 03:47:45 [(0,0),(0,1),(0,2),(0,3),(0,4),(0,5),(0,6),(0,7),(0,8),(0,9),(0,10),(0,11),... 03:47:47 > [1,2,3] >>- \ a -> [a, a+1] 03:47:48 [1,2,2,3,3,4] 03:47:58 ok that was a bad example 03:48:19 since when does lambdabot have >>- 03:48:22 Now 03:48:31 shachaf: as long as i can remember 03:48:37 it's an exciting time for caleskell development 03:48:40 monqy: wow how come i never knew about it 03:49:19 > [0..] >>- \ a -> [0..] >>- return . (a,) 03:49:20 Illegal tuple section: use -XTupleSectionsPrecedence parsing error 03:49:20 can... 03:49:23 :(( 03:49:30 oh 03:49:50 > [0..] >>- \ a -> [0..] >>- \ b -> [(a,b)] 03:49:52 [(0,0),(1,0),(0,1),(2,0),(0,2),(1,1),(0,3),(3,0),(0,4),(1,2),(0,5),(2,1),(0... 03:49:53 "so lame" 03:50:04 ¿Qué es >>-? 03:50:08 ooh i love that function 03:50:19 > "hello" `interleave` "goodbye" 03:50:20 "hgeololdobye" 03:50:27 tswett, like bind except handles the multiple infinite lists thing properly 03:51:37 > [0..] >>= \a -> [0..] >>= \b -> [(a,b)] 03:51:39 [(0,0),(0,1),(0,2),(0,3),(0,4),(0,5),(0,6),(0,7),(0,8),(0,9),(0,10),(0,11),... 03:51:47 Oh, that. 03:51:52 Sgeo: well, this way of doing it isn't necessarily more proper. 03:52:00 proper what 03:52:03 yeah, sometimes you want one and sometimes you want the other 03:52:03 > ("hello","goodbye")^..levels (both.traverse).traverse 03:52:04 Ambiguous occurrence `levels' 03:52:05 It could refer to either `Data.Tree.levels',... 03:52:06 > ("hello","goodbye")^..Lens.levels (both.traverse).traverse 03:52:09 "hgeololdobye" 03:52:17 very elegant, shachaf. 03:52:26 Bike: It's actually disgusting. 03:52:29 "sorry to break it to you" 03:52:43 :-0 03:52:43 I take it . binds more tightly than ^.. 03:52:51 . binds prettty tightly 03:52:57 "9 tight" 03:53:07 wow thats pretty tight 03:53:10 ^.. is a p. good operator name 03:53:30 monqy: but how tight does the . in Lens.levels bind 03:53:37 "10 tight????" 03:53:46 can't you just look it up 03:53:46 not-an-operator-tight 03:53:50 wow 03:53:56 very tight 03:54:09 :t both.traverse 03:54:09 btw i always forget what precedence means 03:54:10 (Applicative f, Traversable t) => (a -> f b) -> (t a, t a) -> f (t b, t b) 03:54:11 how tight does the . in "hello." bind????? 03:54:16 > "hello." 03:54:17 "hello." 03:54:20 so i like to call it stickiness 03:54:21 :t both . traverse 03:54:22 conclusion: very tight 03:54:23 (Applicative f, Traversable t) => (a -> f b) -> (t a, t a) -> f (t b, t b) 03:54:30 hmmmmMMMMmmmm 03:54:32 monqy: well tighter than " 03:54:47 :t both . traverse 03:54:48 (Applicative f, Traversable t) => (a -> f b) -> (t a, t a) -> f (t b, t b) 03:55:05 wow 03:55:13 that's like gravity or something?? 03:55:33 a bond tight enough to overcome separation 03:55:53 :t bot 03:55:54 Not in scope: `bot' 03:55:54 Perhaps you meant one of these: 03:55:54 `not' (imported from Data.Bool), 03:56:26 > [0..] >>- \ a -> [0..] >>- return . (,) a 03:56:28 Precedence parsing error 03:56:28 cannot mix `Control.Monad.Logic.Class.>>-' [i... 03:56:31 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:56:38 ohw ell 03:56:42 @data Bot = Bot 03:56:43 Unknown command, try @list 03:56:47 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:56:49 @let data Bot = Bot 03:56:49 Invalid declaration 03:56:52 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:57:12 Hike 03:57:23 Pike. 03:57:26 Hachaf. Hatchet? 03:57:49 i love monoidoidoidoidoidoidoids 03:57:52 they are so easy 03:58:12 unpuns 03:58:29 What's a mon? 03:58:35 good question 03:58:39 It's like a monoid, but more specific. 03:59:21 Maybe it's a commutative monoid. 03:59:28 Pokemonoid 03:59:48 communal monoid 03:59:50 communoid 03:59:56 I think "mon" would be a better name than "abelian monoid" 04:00:02 or is it a communist monoid?? 04:00:02 but probably worse than "commutative monoid"... 04:00:20 What would it mean for an operation to be mmutative? 04:00:31 good question 04:00:33 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:00:59 tswett: I assume some instances of mposition are mmutative. 04:01:06 I worked out what mposition was once. 04:01:17 It turns out you can't really do it in Haskell because parametricity?? 04:01:18 It operates on your computer's commu 04:01:31 what's mposition shachaf 04:01:32 Are instances of composition commutative? 04:01:42 monqy: um it's that weird thing 04:01:59 which weird thing 04:02:02 p b a -> Either (p x a) (p b x) 04:02:19 ah 04:02:22 monqy: "i didn't invent it it came up on its own" 04:02:30 that's what they all say 04:02:49 "It should still be named after me though" 04:02:59 "A monoid for which the operation is commutative for some, but not all elements is a trace monoid; trace monoids commonly occur in the theory of concurrent computation." 04:03:02 cool 04:03:20 what does it mean by "for some but not all" 04:03:32 The "some of all" fears 04:03:49 is this like it has a subsemigroup thats all commutative and stuff amongst itself, or is it more like the center of a group where the stuff in it commutes with everything 04:04:20 "It generalizes the concept of a string, by not forcing the letters to always be in a fixed order, but allowing certain reshufflings to take place." 04:04:39 the mathematical structure i've always dreamed of. "like a string but less so" 04:04:40 um ok 04:04:48 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:04:53 it sounds kind of 04:04:59 gosh i hope they bothered to actually define it well 04:05:03 I have no idea why you would ever want this. 04:05:09 Bike: Call it an Amstringytoope 04:05:11 " Traces are used in theories of concurrent computation, where commuting letters stand for portions of a job that can execute independently of one another, while non-commuting letters stand for locks, synchronization points or thread joins." 04:05:20 I... guess that sort of makes sense? 04:05:53 Letters? I bet this theory was invented by Post. 04:06:07 why would post give a damn about concurrency 04:06:11 FreeFull: I dunno, I want to erode that word to "anstrintope". 04:06:20 By the way, did you know Post only had one arm? I didn't know that. 04:06:45 That would explain why his computation models are so simple. 04:06:52 awwwww SNAP 04:06:53 And the word "anstrintope" looks like it would mean... 04:07:07 that's right, cripple joke! woo woo 04:07:15 -!- yorkdove has joined. 04:07:50 Hm, someone named Mazurkiewicz is cited. That's a pretty cool name. 04:07:55 Imo all mathematicians should be Polish. 04:07:57 English doesn't have a word for discrimination towards cripples 04:08:01 "Place not bound tightly". 04:08:09 Jafet: does "ableism" count? 04:08:09 (Therefore it doesn't exist) 04:08:11 Jafet: "ableism" 04:08:19 @wn ableism 04:08:19 *** "ableism" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 04:08:19 ableism 04:08:19 n 1: discrimination in favor of the able-bodied [syn: {ableism}, 04:08:19 {ablism}, {able-bodiedism}, {able-bodism}] 04:08:34 "That's not even a word" 04:08:41 Also, "cripple" is a slur, I probably shouldn't have said it. 04:08:57 Is it now? 04:09:03 I think so. 04:09:20 That's lame. 04:09:29 cripple is a game 04:09:30 "While the trace monoid had been studied by Pierre Cartier and Dominique Foata for its combinatorics in the 1960s," oh that sounds actually interesting. 04:09:55 hm, Schützenberger. I think I can allow German mathematicians in addition to the Polish ones. 04:09:56 so trace monoid looks kinda funny. i follow the part where you quotient the free monoid over some set by some equivalence relation, but the properties of this equivalence are not at all obvious to me from the minute i spent skimming its definition 04:10:34 tswett: yeah, it's a slur 04:10:46 Wow, it actually uses "÷". 04:10:48 (a similar one would be "retard", for the mentally disabled) 04:11:29 "Cripple" is also relatively inaccurate, given that one is not actually crippled by many disabilities. 04:11:41 slurs can be pretty inaccurate :P 04:11:45 post certainly did pretty well for himself. 04:11:55 What can I say, I'm a pedant. 04:11:56 oh there's an explanation up there about how the equivalence relation happens, ok 04:11:57 well, insofar as being a huge nerd is doing well 04:12:10 * Fiora suddenly wonders about one-handed keyboards 04:12:18 Chorded keyboards! :D 04:12:39 dvorak one handed is actually pretty usable 04:12:40 chorded = slowass 04:12:41 But seriously, Post died in the fifties, no computers for him to concurreinate. 04:12:45 Fiora: I could argue that what you just said about the word "retard" is offensive; it refers to the mentally retarted, so you're implying that all mentally disabled people are mentally retarded. 04:12:46 i tried to learn it once so i could type and mouse at the same time 04:12:57 keyboards with a mirror key are faster 04:13:16 tswett: people often use slurs against people in a way that doesn't make exact logical sense 04:13:23 keyboards where the keys are in your brain 04:13:56 someone might call a person without good grasp of english "retarded" because they don't understand the material, even if they're not mentally disabled in any way 04:14:12 bigotry is not exactlyogical 04:14:13 *logical 04:14:49 Someone might call me "retarded" because I am in some sense mentally disabled. Ain't words awesome? 04:15:22 the thing is 04:15:26 Fiora: true. 04:15:27 "retarded" isn't an insult because of the word 04:15:30 (simple rule: just don't use the slur) 04:15:30 exactlyogical should be a word 04:15:33 it's an insult because of the meaning 04:15:50 you can keep renaming things to try and get away from "mean words" 04:15:58 but eventually people will just use the new word the same way 04:16:02 motherhugger 04:16:04 see: nigger 04:16:11 except... that doesn't happen 04:16:16 people have used "disabled" for 100 years now 04:16:18 i mean black, i mean colored person, i mean african-american, i mean ... 04:16:24 but I don't see anyone using it as a slur 04:16:26 just make the words dorky enough and nobody'll bother with them 04:16:31 LANGUAGE: CLEANSED 04:16:31 that's because it doesn't have a ring to it 04:16:37 haha monqy's got it right 04:16:37 Funny, "nigger" is the only one of those that's actually a slur of some sort. 04:16:38 god, why do i even say things 04:16:42 "african american" has never been a slur 04:16:45 nigger didn't originate as a slur 04:16:48 ~_~ 04:16:49 Saying "colored" makes you sound *old*, but it's not *offensive*. 04:16:50 You gosh-darned dork 04:16:54 omg white people talking about racism holy shit sotp 04:17:04 but it got used that way and therefore discarded 04:17:10 @wn colored 04:17:11 *** "colored" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 04:17:11 colored 04:17:11 adj 1: having color or a certain color; sometimes used in 04:17:11 combination; "colored crepe paper"; "the film was in 04:17:11 color"; "amber-colored heads of grain" [syn: {colored}, 04:17:13 [14 @more lines] 04:17:15 @more 04:17:15 {coloured}, {colorful}] [ant: {uncolored}, {uncoloured}] 04:17:17 2: having skin rich in melanin pigments; "National Association 04:17:19 for the Advancement of Colored People"; "dark-skinned 04:17:19 the others may not be slurs but they are "politically sensitive" in a way 04:17:21 peoples" [syn: {colored}, {coloured}, {dark}, {dark-skinned}, 04:17:23 {non-white}] 04:17:25 [9 @more lines] 04:17:28 People actually use "colored" to describe themselves, you know. 04:17:38 "people of color" is the reclamation of that term 04:17:43 im sure people use lots of words to describe themselves 04:17:43 indeed 04:17:47 (but slightly modified to limit confusing with the old term) 04:17:50 anyways 04:17:56 people call themselves nigga too :P 04:18:07 I thought "colored" was an american expression for "no mexicans" 04:18:10 -!- Fiora has left ("white people need to stop talking about racism srsly"). 04:18:20 i just think it's a moot point to try and chase down the word instead of the usage 04:18:35 hmm, i can't tell, is that part message racist?? 04:18:36 negro is spanish for the colour black 04:18:54 myndzi: It actually presumes rather a lot. 04:18:57 Namely, that we're all white. 04:19:14 also, i guess white people aren't involved in that conversation 04:19:16 o_O 04:19:16 White people need to stop talking about white people talking about racism 04:19:25 I mean, I only have knowledge of the skin color of a strict subset of this channel's membership. 04:19:30 what if racism is just a horribly stupid thing to talk about in most contexts and most talking about is stupid 04:19:58 It's a pretty safe guess that people "well "nigger" is just a word" are white, most of the time. 04:19:59 *a few words??? 04:20:01 i could get on board with that 04:20:10 I think we can concur on that. 04:20:14 *that people saying 04:20:26 it is just a word, it's a word with a meaning that has changed 04:20:26 fiora's on the right track but it has nothing to do with skin color, imo. it's just such and old conversation and there's nothing to be gained by bashing your heads against it 04:20:29 that was my point 04:20:41 anyway, 'retard' is the same 04:20:52 Now that Fiora has left, we could talk about misogyny 04:20:57 :-) 04:20:58 no matter what nice name you come up with, some ass is gonna use it to describe people meanly 04:21:15 In a totally objective unbiased way 04:21:17 Jafet: 'Fraid I talk about that a bit too much. 04:21:57 let's not talk about any of this stuff uuuugh 04:22:55 `list 04:22:56 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 04:22:57 Are you afraid to talk about it, sissykins? 04:23:15 That sounded too much like susskind 04:23:16 What does that list? 04:23:26 names 04:23:30 Which ones? 04:23:32 people who are subscribed to Super Mega Comics. 04:23:46 wow i love super mega comics !! 04:24:48 monqy: wow i forgot about that 04:24:54 i never finished reading them 04:25:03 `run sed -ie 's/$/ monqy/' bin/list 04:25:09 No output. 04:25:16 `run cat bin/list 04:25:17 echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot monqy 04:25:20 oh 04:25:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:25:32 FALSE ALARM EVERYBODY 04:25:50 `run sed -ie 's/ monqy//' bin/list 04:25:52 No output. 04:25:54 `list 04:25:54 tswett, people who want me to tell them when Homestuck updates 04:25:55 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 04:26:06 Ah. 04:26:08 Sgeo, you can't just... you can't just tell people what hte list is. 04:26:12 So when Homesstuck updates, you just do `list. 04:26:16 yes 04:26:26 Sgeo: How's about a list of people who want you to tell them when Homestuck finishes? 04:26:32 It's, like, ritually unclean. 04:26:35 Personally, I plan to wait for it to end and archive-binge. 04:26:50 What is finishes 04:26:58 what's homestuck 04:27:00 You miss out on a lot of speculation, which is pretty essential to understanding what's going on 04:27:10 .. what 04:27:23 `addquote Sgeo> You miss out on a lot of speculation, which is pretty essential to understanding what's going on 04:27:25 At least, there's a lot of little things you miss by not being a serial reader 04:27:27 942) Sgeo> You miss out on a lot of speculation, which is pretty essential to understanding what's going on 04:27:32 dammit 04:27:35 qdbformat!!! 04:27:35 `revert 04:27:40 Done. 04:27:43 `addquote You miss out on a lot of speculation, which is pretty essential to understanding what's going on 04:27:46 942) You miss out on a lot of speculation, which is pretty essential to understanding what's going on 04:27:50 Sgeo: what nonsense are you spouting now 04:28:08 `delquote 942 04:28:13 ​*poof* You miss out on a lot of speculation, which is pretty essential to understanding what's going on 04:28:14 justified by way of that quote is bad 04:28:28 Do you need justification to understand what's going on? 04:28:30 coppro, well, a lot of people misunderstood in Cascade, which was only cleared up canonically later on 04:28:34 `run bin/quote Sgeo | shuf 04:28:36 159) * Gregor bashes his head into the wall that is Sgeo. \ 504) Maybe I should try to learn Scala instead of Ruby I will boil your veins. Which is less bad? Probably Scala, but I don't want you learning languages. \ 936) Actually, just as a guess, J might be worse than APL because it's restricted to norm 04:28:52 Sgeo: so? 04:28:57 `run bin/quote Sgeo | shuf 04:29:00 726) Why does CL get called functional? it's sort of like how you call ancient greece democratic. \ 110) what's the data of? [...] Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation I have no problems with you being interested in online games but the necrophilia is disturbing \ 827) 499) 04:29:03 if you want that, do a book club 04:29:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:29:33 `quote 827 04:29:34 827) 499) What is miff-muffered moof? that's a tough question [...] miff-muffered moof sounds like a setup to something, but itidus screws it up. 04:30:07 `quote 499 04:30:08 499) Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk 04:30:20 Sgeo: if you want a not-quite-as-dumb counterargument, WoG is that it's better straight through 04:30:23 imo 499 04:30:27 i agree 04:30:39 "X is such a bad Y that it's not really a Y" is such a weird device. 04:30:53 It's such a weird device that it's not really a device. 04:30:57 That is such a bad analogy 04:31:21 Rhetorical device. 04:31:30 `delquote 499 04:31:32 "an agreement" 04:31:34 ​*poof* Also Perl, but I don't really consider that a programming language so much as a really heavy implementatino of awk 04:31:41 also wtf is hussie doing in th emost recent update? 04:31:58 `quote 04:31:59 681) [...] So if someone tells you "you're worth your weight in Ethernet", it's likely they think your worth is less than $2k. 04:32:18 monqy: http://www.amazon.com/Combinatorics-Traces-Lecture-Computer-Science/dp/3540530312 kinda cool lookin 04:32:34 "Chapter 4 provides a new bridge between the theory of string rewriting and formal power series." hee 04:32:44 mmm mmmm 70 bucks lecture notes 04:32:55 Why would you even look at the price new 04:33:18 this had better be more than just lecture notes, alt. dang good lecture notes 04:35:14 i wonder how many of the people selling for twenty bucks actually have a copy 04:37:44 maybe they're just bad copies 04:37:55 paperweight gone chewtoy 04:38:12 They're robot sellers, they're usually pretty good. 04:38:18 I got a book on complex analysis for like two cents once. 04:38:31 Arrived hardly on fire at all! 04:41:18 should i learn complex analysis 04:41:34 monqy: ☝ 04:41:45 Hell yes you should. 04:41:54 Maybe you could even understand what homotopy type theory is!!!!! 04:41:56 i heard it's "real cool" 04:42:15 Also imaginary cool!!!! 04:42:17 see, that's a joke. 04:42:38 wow, that's complex 04:42:57 :-0 04:42:58 (that was a joke too i was highlighting it for you) 04:42:59 there's lots of math i should know and it's upsetting that i dont know it 04:43:01 (in case you missed it) 04:43:12 monqy: do you know if there are mathematicians who don't feel that way? 04:43:17 monqy: "do you know topology" 04:43:19 -!- aloril has joined. 04:43:31 shachaf: topology's near the top of the list of things i really should know but don't 04:43:49 what else is on the list 04:43:52 what's at the top 04:44:07 category theory :'( :'( :'( 04:44:18 category theory? more like stupid theory 04:44:22 4 more minutes and I can eat 04:44:25 so happy ;) 04:44:35 I’m out of food. 04:44:37 That was supposed to be crying happily, not winking 04:44:38 monqy: also people say you should learn other things before you learn category theory 04:44:40 it's everywhere and i always feel awful when theres something haven't encountered in it 04:44:41 :') 04:44:47 it's pretty cool that one of the big category theory guys lives in a shack in the pyrenees now 04:44:49 shachaf: i know other things!!!! 04:44:52 like what 04:44:54 and when i say "pretty cool" i mean "what 04:44:55 algebra? 04:44:56 it's what cool. 04:45:12 `run sed -ie '3 s,.*,if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "\&" "$id" "<" $(wc -l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l No output. 04:45:21 i at least know some algebra!! 04:45:57 not completely algebra-dumb 04:46:21 i'm pretty algebra-dumb :'( 04:46:25 i don't even know what a monoid is 04:46:36 i still love them tho!!!! 04:46:42 A thing where you have multiplication and 1. 04:47:00 ah 04:47:04 monoids are so easy :D 04:47:16 p. much 04:47:24 what about monoidoids 04:47:26 q is there anything that isn't easy 04:47:36 Monoidoids are like monoids, but less so. 04:47:40 monqy: getting answers out of you :'( 04:48:12 monqy: btw i thought you were one of the "cool people but it" turns out you don't even know category theory?? 04:48:13 Dude! If you only have multiplication and 1, you only have const id and unit! 04:48:55 like, whoa, man. 04:49:02 shachaf: i know a few category theory things!!!but i've never bothered to pick up a book and learn it, and nobody teaches it 04:49:54 it's upsetting 04:50:15 monqy: some people teach it.......... 04:50:22 bikeoids 04:50:22 nobody i know 04:50:25 …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… 04:50:28 shachaf: btw learn matroids 04:51:45 Bike: I've already learned Matryushkas. Is that enough? 04:52:01 Matryoshka brains? 04:52:21 Matryoshkoids 04:57:34 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0304397581900578 oooooh 04:57:39 so easy! 04:58:48 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:59:15 Bike: what about groups are they easy 04:59:30 You've heard how long the classification of groups is, right 04:59:48 "The proof of the theorem consists of tens of thousands of pages in several hundred journal articles written by about 100 authors, published mostly between 1955 and 2004." 05:00:35 So, ,yes. 05:00:48 how long is the /statement/ of the theorem? 05:00:48 By yes Bike meant no 05:00:50 hth 05:00:51 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 05:01:35 scarf: Wikipedia's article on such is like... ten pages long? Somewhere around there. 05:01:47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_finite_simple_groups 05:02:02 The theorem being "that's it" 05:02:08 :) 05:02:22 I wonder how useful the result is 05:02:35 Theorem prover stress testing 05:02:45 I think somebody called it the greatest thing in group theory in bla bla long period of time bla bla bla 05:03:06 Bike: did you hear the odd order theorem was proved in coq 05:03:14 How long has group theory been around 05:03:14 monqy did you help 05:03:20 no i didnt help :( 05:03:32 roconnor helped 05:03:34 Jafet: I think like two hundred years? 05:03:47 he came to california to tell us about it!! 05:03:54 I think it was Abel's fault. 05:03:58 or something. 05:04:44 The end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century saw a tremendous shift in the methodology of mathematics. Abstract algebra emerged around the start of the 20th century, under the name modern algebra. 05:04:52 Also, apparently this guy Gorenstein has written articles about how long the proof is. 05:04:58 That's how you know it's a good proof. 05:05:01 there's of course a bunch of group theory before that 05:05:13 The abstract notion of a group appeared for the first time in Arthur Cayley's papers in 1854. 05:05:25 monqy: it was a ballpark estimate in that i threw a baseball and broke a window 05:05:25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_finite_simple_groups#Timeline_of_the_proof 05:05:38 groups are so easy :') 05:05:50 I guess it is technically the greatest thing in group theory 05:06:02 Bike: I don't think that's how ballpark estimates work 05:06:05 The theorem is, in fact, most of group theory. 05:06:08 "deep" 05:06:17 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:06:23 scarf: I don't think you know how baseball works! 05:07:01 Bike: I used to watch baseball quite a lot until they stopped showing it in the UK 05:07:05 then it became quite difficult 05:07:26 Is there any baseball presence in the UK? 05:07:28 the hilarious thing was, the UK coverage was just the US coverage except they put their own commentary and such in the US ad breaks 05:07:35 and still had plenty of time left over for ad breaks of their own 05:07:41 the ad ratio between the two TV networks was so large 05:07:45 nice. 05:07:57 and there's a slight amount, but it's nowhere near as large as in the US or Canada or Japan 05:08:05 " Thompson (1979) showed that its uniqueness (as a simple group satisfying certain conditions coming from the classification of finite simple groups) would follow from the existence of a 196883-dimensional faithful representation." 05:08:10 like, people will have heard of it, and some of them might know some of the rules 05:08:15 I think the best thing about math is that somebody wrote this sentence in all seriousness. 05:08:41 scarf: would it be apropos to make a joke about cricket? 05:08:53 196883-dimensional is a lot of dimensional 05:08:54 Bike: sort-of, although most foreigners' jokes about cricket end up not working 05:09:05 unless there's a heavy cricket presence in the country 05:09:27 i almost made a joke about cricket, but it was just something like "what about cricket" 05:09:31 the joke being cricket, of course 05:09:35 monqy: almost as many as graham's number!! 05:09:55 scarf: i seriously don't know anything about cricket beyond that it's maybe sort of like baseball and also british 05:10:06 so, same as most americans, probably 05:10:08 Knuth up-yours notation 05:10:11 the standard joke about graham's number is that it's only the best known upper bound on a value that's believed (but not proved) to be 6 05:10:30 Bike: it's really quite different from cricket in the way it works out 05:10:31 Yes but it's also a number of dimensions, so mentioning it is totally relevant. 05:10:41 in both games, you hit a ball with a bat 05:10:47 Close enough! 05:10:49 wait cricket has bats? 05:10:51 scarf: actually there is a better upper bound 05:10:52 the really major difference is that in cricket, nothing's forcing you to run 05:10:57 we know, quintopia. 05:11:10 so unless it's completely safe, the batsman will just stand there 05:11:13 well probably. i know. you're all basically me. 05:11:14 this makes it a lot harder to get people out 05:11:22 scarf, this sounds awkward. 05:11:23 Bike: scarf isnt you. 05:11:37 quintopia: I wrote it as "the standard joke" for a reason 05:11:49 Bike: well you only have to get everyone out once, rather than three of the people out nine times 05:11:51 wait cricket /= croquet?????????????????????????????????? 05:11:52 There's also a better upper bound, but did you mention that? Hmmmmm? 05:11:52 but even so, it can take days 05:11:55 why did no one tell me 05:12:10 scarf: baseball can also take days, luckily 05:12:13 scarf: i'm sobering up 05:12:22 Er, also a better lower bound. 05:12:25 Derrrr. 05:12:27 there were a few games that were weeks long before they added a rule that made it a draw after five days 05:12:35 nice. 05:12:41 (that was ages ago) 05:12:47 19th century? 05:12:51 yeah, around then 05:13:00 shachaf: Please tell me you're kidding >_> 05:13:06 Gregor: Nope. 05:13:10 also they have "one-day" matches where each innings is automatically over after 300 balls bowled (= pitches) 05:13:12 I always assumed they were the same thing. 05:13:24 which encourages the batsmen to play riskier because getting out is less of a problem 05:13:27 Based on the fact that they're both sports that start with 'c'? 05:13:39 they sound kind-of similar 05:13:42 but they play rather differently 05:13:43 Gregor: They both have the consonants krkt 05:13:49 croquet is about hitting balls through hoops using mallets 05:13:51 And I've played Croquet, I think. 05:13:58 I don't have the rules down as well as I have the rules of cricket down 05:14:00 shachaf: Croquet does not end with the consonant 't'. 05:14:15 I actually used to confuse croquet and cribbage, if that makes you feel better. 05:14:23 Croquet is also infinitely simpler than cricket X-D 05:14:23 yeah, it's pronounced "crokay" 05:14:24 Gregor: Yes it does? 05:14:34 Gregor: and cricket is orders of magnitude simpler than gold 05:14:37 shachaf: he meant the sound 05:14:37 shachaf: A consonant is a sound, not a letter. 05:14:37 *golf 05:14:40 http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1738du/a_hilarious_thread_from_a_programming_forum_i/ 05:14:41 The Hebrew pronunciation is "kroket" according to Wikipedia. 05:14:55 Oh, in English it's krokay. 05:14:56 there are only, what, 11 ways to get out, something like that 05:14:58 Or that's the spelling. And Hebrew doesn't ahve silent letters. 05:15:02 that's comparable with baseball 05:15:12 and few rules apart from getting out and scoring 05:15:28 batsmen try to score as many runs as possible without getting out 05:15:40 wickets are the weirdest idea in sports 05:15:44 Krikkit? 05:15:47 the fielding team try to get them out (when they can), or (most of the time) stop them scoring 05:15:55 and wickets are a reasonably simple idea, really 05:16:03 "The best advice I can give is pick up this book: Beginning Programming for Dummies 2nd Edition " 05:16:04 make it clear from the hardware point of view whether the target was hit or not 05:16:09 except when it doesn't 05:16:18 nowadays they put microphones inside the wickets so that they can tell when they were hit 05:16:35 I learned a lot from For Dummies books when I was a kid 05:16:38 and compare the microphone recordings with camera recordings of the wicket, so they don't get confused by loud noises that happened at approximately the right time 05:16:49 also they record the sound of the ball hitting the bat, too 05:16:57 Sgeo: i learned what defragmentation was from one about macbooks :D 05:17:23 which is relevant when trying to work out whether someone's been caught out (think flyout in baseball), or whether the ball just bounced off their kneepads (you aren't out if you're caught after that, unless you would have been out anyway) 05:17:25 other highlights: complaints that Microsoft Word took up 2 MB of RAM 05:17:26 any game that requires audio recordings to ensure the rules are enforced properly is weird 05:17:46 Better than requiring video recordings 05:17:47 quintopia: you don't have those in more casual matches, the game still works, just the decisions are a little less accurate as a result 05:17:49 Kind of 05:17:56 Bike: i agree. wtf is up with a text editor that large????? 05:18:13 quintopia: "takes up half of memory"!!! 05:18:19 scarf: video replay should suffice for anything 05:18:21 also it's a word processor not a text editor hth 05:18:21 word mostly isn't a text editor 05:18:53 quintopia: it's very hard to work out whether a ball that might be travelling at 100mph or so has collided with a wooden stick, from video evidence alone, given that it might graze by just a couple of millimetres 05:19:02 what is the difference? is the difference something i care about using? 05:19:08 Word is a Word editor 05:19:09 word is for word art and using wacky fonts for the bbq flyer that's about it 05:19:15 (except when it isn't) 05:19:24 i suspect that i've never used the features of word that aren't found in, say, kate 05:19:38 scarf: Word is a word processor, the main difference is the existence of formatting 05:19:41 err 05:19:43 quintopia: yeah, Word would be shitty for writing code, and kate would be shitty for the bbq flyer 05:19:50 quintopia: Word is a word processor, the main difference is the existence of formatting 05:20:14 in order to get formatted text in something like kate, you need to write, say, HTML or LaTeX directly, and it doesn't give a WYSIWYG view 05:20:22 Bike: yeah but bbq flyer who cares wtf 05:20:23 http://www.homeandlearn.co.uk/mw/images/wordArtDB.jpg just look at this beauty 05:20:27 which is not a problem for people experienced in writing formatting as programs 05:20:29 but is for many people 05:20:33 quintopia: see, this is why you use kate. 05:20:42 I hate formatting 05:20:49 I hate dealing with it, thinking about it 05:20:52 most people in the world are more concerned with bbq flyers than with irssi plugins. 05:21:05 well, more people. i suppose most people in the world don't give a damn about bbqs. 05:21:10 WTF how does one make text "look good" 05:21:13 Bike: i'm exaggerating of course. i use lyx. lyx probably uses well over 2MB of RAM 05:21:17 uhm a bbq flyer is quite trivial with \documentclass{bbqflyer} 05:21:22 Sgeo: That is a big question. :| 05:21:26 laughed out loud 05:21:28 LyX does the same job as Word, rather than as Kate 05:21:36 sgeo: WordArt. 05:21:48 scarf: namely, to annoy the hell out of you 05:21:52 kmc: i use that doc class for research paper cover pages 05:21:53 i love wordart 05:21:59 By big question I mean small question with big complex answer. 05:22:03 Jafet: LyX is less annoying than Word 05:22:07 Which is possibly the best kind of question. 05:22:21 an alternative way of looking at it is, Kate does the same job as Notepad (just it does it a lot better) 05:22:40 yeah i kind of think of notepad as "the text editor" and Word as "the word processor" 05:22:44 i'm not a true linuxite :( 05:22:45 notepad was a quality piece of software man 05:22:49 "was" 05:22:55 Notepad is basically just a multiline text input field with a menu attached 05:22:58 what happened to notepad :((( 05:23:20 scarf: are you not a fan of minimalism 05:23:24 What is notepad.exe? How to remove notepad.exe virus? The fast and easy way to solve notepad.exe errors or problems. Download now. 05:23:46 Bike: real web page? 05:23:52 Well, autogenerated, but yes. 05:24:00 ah 05:24:10 I can believe notepad.exe would be a plausible name for a virus 05:24:12 notepad.exe is important for Windows 7/XP/Vista. Click here to know what notepad.exe is doing, its safeness and how to avoid problems. 05:24:21 well, worm 05:24:22 Is a webpage that is only ever shown to googlebot a real web page 05:24:28 it's all about the calc.exe 05:24:32 I've seen them call themselves iexplore.exe (but hide in a different and obviously wrong directory) 05:24:36 Jafet: good question 05:24:44 I bet you could say something actually interesting about different operating environments by comparing their text editors. Linux has ed since it was originally built on dumb terminals and with mainframes. Windows has Notepad since that's pretty easy for demonstrating your graphical system and stuff. 05:24:49 I'd say it's a real web page, but it's not on the real web 05:25:00 21:24:10 I can believe notepad.exe would be a plausible name for a virus 05:25:01 the platonic ideal of a web page 05:25:14 scarf: half of the results for notepad.exe are about a trojan distributed as notepad.exe 05:25:20 Bike: Linux has some vi and nano pretty much everywhere nowadays 05:25:37 i know, but i probably couldn't have fit anything about those in that line 05:25:44 windows also has wordpad and well word 05:25:44 (where by some vi, I mean vi, vim, or one of the cut-down vim variants) 05:25:51 and... i have no idea what's on OS X 05:26:02 back in windows 3.1, wordpad was called write, I think 05:26:17 osx probably has something flashy 05:26:20 "Notepad is a common text-only (plain text) editor. The resulting files—typically saved with the .txt extension—have no format tags or styles, making the program suitable for editing system files that are to be used in a DOS environment" 05:26:41 Oh, it does support right to left text. Cool. 05:26:50 "Plain text". 05:26:52 http://www.notepad.org/ 05:26:57 Notepad also screws up line ending encodings 05:26:58 this is a good website 05:27:01 and BOMs 05:27:13 bush hid the facts 05:27:17 best bug ever? probably. 05:27:18 like, it always BOMs UTF-8, and uses \r\n newlines, and won't understand just-\n newlines 05:27:41 Bike: it triggered off any sequence of lowercase letters separated by spaces with word lengths 4 3 3 5 05:27:53 I've never seen a text editor fail the way I expect with \n when it wants \r\n. 05:27:54 so it's just a case of finding an amusing sentence that fits that restriction 05:27:57 Yes, but I love conspiracy theories. 05:28:04 http://www.notepad.org/logo.htm this is good too 05:28:23 That's beautiful. 05:28:40 Bike: the other common sentence I saw was "this app can break" 05:28:54 not bad 05:29:32 All of the images at the bottom are separated by  \n 05:29:54 Also is the greatest tag. 05:30:04 um itym 05:30:13 Um ftfy. 05:30:18 evincar: Notepad just shows all the \ns as a literal control-j character 05:30:22 which looks like a weird box thing 05:30:24 Courtesy of Miles Prower- http://tails.kicks-ass.net 05:30:25 blink is lame. marquee "the only way to go" 05:30:49 scarf: Oh I misremembered. I thought it just omitted the linebreaks altogether. 05:31:05 it looks much like that, the literal newlines can be invisible in some configurations 05:31:09 although they're /there/ 05:31:44 So what \n ought to do is be a line feed. 05:31:45 o.O at the Any browser logo on there 05:31:53 I.e., foo\nbar should render as: 05:31:54 foo 05:31:55 bar 05:31:58 You can certainly make pages intended for a subset of browsers by using Notepad 05:32:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:32:19 I've done that deliberately. (The subset of browsers thing) 05:32:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:32:39 I guess technically everyone does. Who TF writes to be compatible with ViolaWWW or Mosaic?) 05:32:53 Did you hear you can get Mosaic on Linux now? 05:33:03 Sgeo: Wikipedia doesn't work in Mozilla 1.2 :( 05:33:16 (I famously blanked the main page talk like that once, people assumed I was vandalizing) 05:33:37 (and even when it worked, it introduced spurious newlines into pages by line-wrapping their entire contents) 05:33:53 (like, the same operation that fmt(1) performs) 05:34:54 hm, so were you active in wikipedia's community? 05:35:01 i'm suddenly curious how they deal with people with autocensors. 05:36:08 Bike: I used to be an admin there 05:36:20 occasionally we told people to stop editing because a proxy or something was screwing up the page 05:36:29 and blocked them temporarily if they didn't 05:36:39 most common was some sort of misconfigured software adding backslashes before apostrophes 05:36:44 and other backslashes 05:36:50 it was funny when people would edit a page and suddenly all occurences of "fuck" were replaced with asterisks, and by funny i mean instant ban 05:37:06 (which grows exponentially, so it becomes very noticeable very quickly) 05:37:27 i wonder how apostrophes ended up used for quotation anyway 05:37:50 well it's a problem even in things like "don't", because smart quotes are hard to edit and so people tend to use regular apostrophes instead 05:38:32 i know, i was just wondering 05:38:49 The state of input methods is tragic. 05:38:54 Hmm, now I wonder if you could make a filter that filters the text even in the textarea, but puts the words in question back when submitting the page 05:39:10 hunter2 05:39:11 diff-y stuff I guess 05:39:15 evincar: well “smart quotes” should be easy to type through any sensible input method 05:39:16 You should make a startup that does that. 05:39:26 just, Windows doesn't come with a compose key by default, nor an easy way to configure one 05:39:53 scarf: I use a “compose key” which still isn’t—really—good enough. 05:40:08 evincar: yeah, although most of the common stuff is there, and most is guessable 05:40:10 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:40:21 In terms of discoverability, a compose key is pretty good. 05:40:24 alternatively or additionally, you can use altgr combinations, unless you have a US keyboard 05:40:30 I use those for, say, ü out of habit 05:40:33 Look at the big picture, do you want every lolcat uploader on instagram using unicode captions 05:40:46 Actually that doesn't sound too bad 05:40:51 I ♥ the compose key. 05:41:03 Gregor: just tried it, <3 05:41:12 I guess that was reasonably obvious 05:41:13 Trouble is when there isn't a mapping for a thing you think should be there. 05:41:16 yeah 05:41:21 And you are a nontechnical user who has no idea where to go edit that. 05:41:34 And you are on Microsoft Windows. 05:41:40 Somehow. 05:42:01 linux is harder to configure than windows 05:42:12 Not sure about that. 05:42:18 it really is. 05:42:24 My mother is *employed* because Windows is hard to "configure". 05:42:31 they're both really hard to configure when they don't have a reasonable GUI for the task 05:42:32 (Being in IT.) 05:42:50 I think Windows is easier to misconfigure by mistake in cases where the defaults are sane 05:43:20 ~/.gnome/config/meaninglessname/this/was/in/a/different/directory/two/weeks/ago/ui.xml 05:44:06 Also linux desktops have a "registry" now? 05:44:09 Jafet: Even XML would be better than a different unique format every time. 05:44:40 XML is a different unique format every time. 05:44:58 Yes, and it never ceases to amaze me what people do with the stuff. 05:45:04 Exhibit A: plist. 05:45:59 http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/4361/99615.aspx 05:46:09 CFBundleIdentifiercom.example.foo 05:47:39 "and then execute the command thats in the xml" 05:49:08 So like XSLT. :D 05:49:32 serious question, are there computer jobs that aren't miserable 05:49:41 Bike, that was an OSS project 05:50:03 The WWII-era intelligence agency? 05:50:04 Bike: I have a computer job which is not miserable. 05:50:10 QED 05:50:13 What is your computer job which is not miserable? 05:50:54 I maintain a compiler and a build system. 05:50:59 And random other stuff that needs doing. 05:51:06 oooooh cool. 05:52:16 Eh...the code is in need of love that we don't have time to give. :( 05:52:34 nope i've already decided your job doesn't suck sorry 05:55:07 Jafet: Gnome has something registry-like (but it mostly reserves it for configuration, rather than the Windows registry which was originally intended for something entirely different and which is nowadays used for all sorts of random stuff) 05:55:13 I think it's used specifically by Gnome, though 05:56:10 (The compiler is about 20kloc, build tool 8kloc, both Haskell.) 05:56:29 compilers are pretty cool 05:57:37 with Verity I wrote the build tool into the compiler 05:57:56 separate build tools break so easily, and are more work to maintain 05:58:02 That's probably a good idea for new work. 05:58:21 In our case the build thing does way more than just run the compiler though. 05:58:43 The compiler does code dependencies within a project. 05:58:56 yeah 05:59:01 The build system runs the compiler and a bunch of conversion utilities. 05:59:06 in my case, dependencies have to be declared with import statements 05:59:32 And deploys updates over a network. :P 05:59:41 and it looks at the object files matching the imports you state to make sure that things like types match 05:59:52 it can do 100% separate compilation if you don't care about cross-module type checking, though 05:59:56 That's cool. 06:00:06 this also means that the other modules can be written in other languages 06:00:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:00:25 you just have to provide it with a description of what types things have, because it can't figure it out automatically in that case 06:01:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:01:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:01:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:02:53 Well that is how an FFI usually works. 06:13:30 well, yeah 06:13:48 one problem is that at the moment, you have to specify the types in its object file format 06:17:47 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:36:03 monoids monoids monoids 06:36:04 so easy 06:36:16 monqy: so what are you going to learn first 06:36:30 hi?? 06:36:42 imo start with morphisms and then move on to categories 06:37:02 i already know about morphisms and categories....... 06:37:30 r u sure 06:40:05 whats this about anyway 06:40:31 i dunno, i think shachaf was couching a serious question about your mathematical interests in the surreal form of discourse common in this channel 06:41:27 Bike: It's the only way to talk to monqy. 06:41:32 right 06:42:13 the list is less interests, more split between things i really should know near the top and curiosities near the bottom. the middle is a mixture of things i probably know enough about and things i secretly know but don't realize it 06:42:48 i discovered recently i know more about type theory than i gave myself credit??? who would have guessed 06:43:04 monqy: how does that work 06:43:09 like that 06:43:12 so what are the things near the top 06:43:28 um category theory 06:43:47 monqy: i mean!! what did you know about type theory that you didn't think you knew 06:43:58 or did you know something but you thought it wasn't related to type theory but actually it was 06:43:59 something other than category theory imo not category theory 06:44:07 or what 06:44:57 more on the side of i knew all this type theory stuff and i guess i thought it was just sorta related to type theory and i was missing out on all the details? but it turns out not really 06:45:26 i should know more about type theory 06:45:32 i know basically nothing?? 06:45:45 shachaf: maybe that's just what you think! 06:45:58 there are shittons of books about martin-lof on the internet 06:46:00 Bike: probably i should know topology? maybe??? maybe it's just one of those things i think i should maybe know but it's just a curiosity 06:46:13 hm ok 06:46:17 monqy: well maybe i should read tapl or something?? 06:46:26 or like know anything idk 06:46:30 tapl's a pretty easy read 06:46:34 knowing things is hard 06:46:39 all i read of tapl was the first page 06:46:46 which was a directed graph of chapter dependencies?? 06:46:49 "p. cool imo" 06:46:50 it really picks up around the second page 06:46:57 there's a bunch of proofs you can do if you really want to engage yourself. do them in coq or agda or something for super engagement??? 06:47:13 oh, i remember posting a photo of the chapter dependencies 06:47:13 monqy: also i don't really know coq or agda???? and maybe i should 06:47:16 "yes, a book is really doing this" 06:47:22 Bike: did you read tapl 06:47:28 yeah 06:47:32 probably not that engaged though 06:47:47 wow does everyone know more about types than i do! 06:47:54 something along the lines of coq or agda is "worth knowing" imo 06:47:56 i do this thing where i read textbooks but don't do many of the exercises and then i suck 06:48:04 maybe i should get a proof assistant 06:48:07 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 06:48:16 and then use it with TAOCP first to be a rebel 06:48:36 ("second order logic: good for proving how fast you can't multiply") 06:49:34 who needs second order logic when you have the higher order stuff 06:49:56 2 is a higher order than 1 monqy. 06:50:07 higher is a higher order than 2!!! 06:50:11 monqy: well i "kind of know a little bit of agda??"?? 06:50:15 orly 06:50:19 but not really 06:50:30 I actually don't know what "higher-order logic" means. 06:50:35 Is it like... what is it like. 06:50:43 > let fac n = product [1..n] in fac (fac (fac 2)) 06:50:45 2 06:50:51 zomg 06:50:52 Genius. 06:51:02 v.clever monqy 06:51:03 i know....about....agda..... sometimes i feel i should know more agda but i don't really have a use for it 06:51:12 i've never even done anything with coq 06:51:18 Telling shachaf about TAPL is a use imo. 06:51:19 which i think all the "cool people have"? 06:51:27 i've done plenty with coq 06:51:44 «The term "higher-order logic", abbreviated as HOL, is commonly used to mean higher order simple predicate logic. Here "simple" indicates that the underlying type theory is simple, not polymorphic or dependent.» 06:51:45 aren't you doing some type theory thing in coq or something 06:51:50 ok but coq uses dependent logic 06:51:54 monqy are you lying 06:51:55 to me 06:51:56 shachaf: i was, yes 06:52:06 monqy: what was it 06:52:24 Bike: Examples of higher order logics include HOL, Church's Simple Theory of Types, Thierry Coquand's calculus of constructions, which allows for both dependent and polymorphic types. 06:52:39 Well gosh, that's confusing. 06:53:00 I know what second-order logic and church logic is but this just seems so vague 06:53:06 maybe i should just figure out CoC and shut the fuck up. 06:53:46 CoC is easy 06:54:00 Probably. 06:54:21 it's even in the lambda cube???how much easier can you get 06:54:27 shachaf: nothing much..... 06:54:43 shachaf: there's a "story" behind it but it's the sort of thing i don't really feel like talking about 06:55:00 fucking lambda cubes. 06:55:06 * Bike glances at topic 06:55:30 the important part is that it gave me more experience with coq and how to manage large proofs and so on 06:55:44 monqy has started the avant-garde art movement of "lambda cubism" 06:55:53 the type theory was "not particularly interesting" 06:56:08 ive done some pure type systems stuff recently but that's not in coq... 06:56:14 maybe i should move it to coq?? who knows 06:56:49 imo i wonder what the "story" is 06:56:51 i bet it's good 06:56:53 no 06:57:41 hm maybe i should try reading jshutt's thesis again, there was lots of lambda calculus provey theoryy stuff i honestly didn't get 06:57:51 he still had a whole appendix on how he chose letters though 06:58:11 do you at least get curry-howard? 06:58:30 not that well but sorta 06:59:21 Bike: imo you should get curry-howard 06:59:27 it's "basically the" best thing?? 06:59:32 curry-howard is easy and it starts popping up when you look into these things 06:59:39 easy and powerful and good for you 06:59:40 I probably would "really get it" if I fucked around with an actual system, like coq. 06:59:49 oh no 06:59:49 Instead of just reading shit constantly. 06:59:52 i haven't done that 06:59:59 !!!!! 07:00:01 maybe i don't "really get it" 07:00:06 Wow, I kind of hate talking like that. 07:00:08 Bike: imo you don't even need to do that you just need to think about it a little bit and it makes sense 07:00:25 or maybe thats just for me 07:00:32 not everyone can be a monqy 07:00:36 =/ 07:00:43 Whenever I read about it I get stuck on product types. True story. 07:00:49 what really? 07:00:52 product types? 07:01:00 which part 07:01:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_type_theory#Connectives_of_type_theory like i just look at it and "uhhhhh" 07:01:10 the correspondence between products and conjunction? 07:01:26 oh dependent products? 07:01:35 pi-types aren't quite what i'd call "product types" 07:01:37 i thought you "meant conjunction" 07:01:39 wait no 07:01:42 i meant pi types yeah, fuck 07:01:49 product types are so easy etc etc shachaf 07:01:54 pi types are "p. cool too" 07:02:07 it took me a bit to understand why they're called that 07:02:24 but it makes perfect sense 07:02:25 probably it's something Exciting and Deep like euler's primality thingie. 07:02:28 buuuuut i'm slow. 07:02:59 are sigmas confusing too? 07:03:08 or are you "ok with them" 07:03:15 oh, wait, i suppose pi types are sort of like the "reals are functions N -> N" thingie 07:03:33 not sure about that 07:03:40 maybe?? 07:03:48 reals are functions N -> Bool imo 07:03:56 sure if you're a poser 07:04:02 Bike: weeelllllll do you at least get non-dependent functions 07:04:25 yes that's the important first step 07:04:38 probably 07:04:56 maybe i should just read tapl more thoroughly instead of bugging irc 07:05:09 tapl doesn't really go over this much 07:05:14 god damn it 07:05:28 i just learned about it "from the internet" 07:05:55 fuck you internet 07:06:00 maybe attapl does? but yeah it's everywhere 07:06:17 e.g. any self-respecting introduction to coq or agda will have it 07:06:23 well sure 07:06:25 i thought curry-howard was super basic as type theory goes 07:06:33 that's "basically what agda is all about??" 07:06:38 yes 07:08:13 Bike: btw sigma and pi types are good too 07:08:16 so you should learn them 07:08:22 ok 07:09:05 imo sigma types are maybe simpler? 07:09:11 sigma types are simpler yes 07:09:18 there's a good analogy with stuff like 07:09:27 {n : nat | n < 5} 07:09:51 natural numbers less than 5 ~ natural number /\ a proof it's less than 5 07:10:11 sure 07:10:12 oooooh 07:10:53 a sigma type is just a tuple where the type of the second element depends on the value of the first element 07:11:09 (if that wasn't clear¿¿) 07:11:15 pi types are just functions where the result type depends on the value of the argument! 07:11:33 like you can have something like 07:11:35 right 07:11:50 the reason they're called that wasn't obvious to me when i first heard of them 07:12:01 btw i actually first heard of them when i went to a talk about homotopy type theory?? 07:12:03 `forall n, n + 1 > 0` is the type of functions fron natural numbers to proofs that their successors are greater than 0 07:12:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: forall: not found 07:12:11 Bike: ^ 07:12:12 it was a bit "over my head" at that point even though i followed a little bit 07:12:18 i want to know more about homotopy type theory :( is it good 07:12:23 should i find the slides 07:12:31 it sounded good 07:12:34 is it because they're a product of like, 0, 0+1 > 0 and 1, 1+1 > 1 and 2, 2+1 > 1, and so on 07:12:47 monqy: http://comonad.com/reader/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/slides.pdf 07:13:01 actually there isn't very much on the slides 07:13:04 it was "mostly talking" 07:13:26 Bike: yes 07:13:50 glad i'm far enough in math that saying a product of that makes any sense makes any sense 07:13:56 like when you have forall epsilon exists delta blah(epsilon,delta) 07:14:03 that's like a function that takes epsilon as an argument 07:14:09 and gives you back a delta along with a proof about the delta 07:14:30 hm maybe i should go over this and churchill at the same time 07:14:35 epsilons all over that fucking thing 07:14:37 foo : (epsilon:R) -> (delta:R, blah epsilon delta) 07:15:07 and probably that ties into grothendieck or homotopy or whateverthefuck 07:15:08 where blah is a proof 07:15:41 let's see how far i can follow these slides without any talky..... 07:15:56 monqy: btw those slides were by dolio he knows some things about this?? 07:24:35 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 07:27:08 -!- yorkdove has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:28:04 Hey if I'm inferring types for function definitions 07:28:12 and those can be in any order and possibly mutually recursive 07:28:34 then I can't just assign each definition a type variable up front 07:28:41 and instantiate them after the fact 07:28:44 read up on coinduction, evincar 07:28:52 because each usage site can have a different type 07:29:04 or is that not what youre asking about... 07:29:21 uhhh 07:29:38 read up on polymorphism? gosh, what are you doing 07:29:46 I'm asking about how best to have terms associated with type schemes that are not computed yet. 07:30:13 Laziness seems like the wrong approach here. 07:30:17 ok do you know about hindley-milner? 07:30:25 Yes. 07:30:26 and extensions thereof? 07:30:28 Yes. 07:30:30 ok 07:31:11 so you know about the whole generate-constraints-on-your-types-and-then-unify thing? 07:31:18 Yes, that's what I'm doing. 07:31:22 ok 07:32:12 i don't get what your problem is?? 07:32:56 I don't know if it's a problem... 07:32:56 -!- ogrom has joined. 07:33:38 What I'm doing now to allow arbitrary order is first associate each definition with a fresh type variable. 07:33:54 ok 07:33:55 Specifically a type scheme with no quantified variables. 07:34:16 Then run inference on those definitions. 07:34:43 Take the resulting type schemes and instantiate each one then unify the result with the corresponding variable. 07:34:55 I feel like this isn't right. 07:35:25 Because separate invocations get the same type variable which is unified with the result of instantiating the type scheme *once*. 07:35:31 what do you feel isn't right about it and what do you mean by "type scheme" 07:36:23 I mean a type + quantified type variables. 07:36:30 A forall. 07:36:53 so just a plain ol rank-1 universal type? 07:36:57 Yup. 07:36:59 ok 07:38:09 But it seems to not exhibit the problem I thought it would, or my test case is wrong. 07:38:53 i still don't quite understand your problem 07:39:37 Different invocations of the same function can be given different types. 07:39:40 I want to make sure I don't break that. 07:40:54 well how would it break it? if your function gets a universal type and your stuff isn't TOTALLY BROKEN then you shouldn't be unifying it with any instantiated stuff 07:40:59 if that's what you're saying 07:41:32 your rules for function application and so on should handle it?? 07:41:54 monqy: btw why doesn't ghc support existentials 07:42:09 it should imo 07:42:13 I keep seeing things like files that state how many lines they have (in programming competitions), and thinking that it's for the benefit of C programmers 07:42:18 shachaf: what sort of existentials? there's that one LANGUAGE thing! 07:42:20 Do I have an unreasonably low opinion of C? 07:42:25 yep 07:42:48 what is even with existential types, they were in tapl but they were really weird 07:43:08 well there's lots of different things that fall under the umbrella of sigma types 07:43:11 monqy: no first-class existentials 07:43:36 er assuming you mean existential quantification 07:46:35 the "easy" cases of sigma types are the ones where the left thingy is a type and you use it in the right thingy, like what happens in tapl where it's used for encapsulation or something like that, and where the left thingy is a value and the right thingy is some curry-howarded proof about it like in my example with {n : nat | n < 5} 07:46:48 if you're really fancy you can care about both projections!! 07:46:53 yeah it's the encapsulation that was weirding me out 07:47:02 do programming systems actually use that? 07:47:36 ask elliott for opinions about existentials :-) 07:47:55 is this like when you had me ask ais about feather 07:48:03 Isn't it also an existential when you have, say, data Box = forall a. (HasFoo a) => Box a 07:48:14 shachaf: don't know!! woops 07:48:21 Then a heterogeneous list of boxen which all HasFoo. 07:48:22 Bike: did I? it's....similar :-) 07:48:35 well when I say "you" i mean "the multiheaded demon that is #esoteric" 07:48:40 that is a very cruel smile you have there 07:48:57 well when I say elliott has opinions about existentials 07:49:01 i mean elliott has opinions about existentials 07:49:06 right... 07:49:51 evincar: sure 07:49:56 monqy: apparently it has to do with how you can't express them in Core?? 07:49:57 (That being [exists a. HasFoo a => a]) 07:50:05 which is also why you don't have existential newtypes (even though you have data types) 07:50:20 i don't know much about core, :0 07:50:25 evincar: type classes are the devil.................... 07:50:33 monqy: well it's pretty much system f?? 07:50:40 shachaf: I agree. 07:50:42 shachaf: ah ! 07:50:44 system fc "aka system f with coercions" 07:50:58 What's wrong with type classes? 07:51:00 evincar: you should ask elliott about existentials too 07:51:10 we can have an asking elliott about existentials party 07:51:16 existentials are good imo 07:51:20 I'll bring the punch. 07:51:22 but most things people want to do with them are bad 07:51:27 Bike: no, elliott will bring that 07:51:31 monqy: elliott does not like it when I ask him things 07:51:32 if you ask him about existentials 07:51:37 oh 07:51:40 can i bring chips 07:51:47 "its a pun about elliott's violent tendencies where existential are concerned" 07:51:58 yes i got that can we move on to chips 07:52:09 i'm bringing the pop corn 07:52:13 Chips on shoulders. 07:52:15 it's a joke about how this will be fun to watch 07:52:29 monqy: good joke 07:52:52 we should have a joke party 07:52:56 if we survive the other party 07:52:57 good idea ! 07:53:05 so who else do i ask about things 07:53:06 i'll bring the punch 07:53:11 monqy: so i don't know that much about system f except for the things i do know 07:53:17 why can't it have existentials 07:53:18 ais about feather, elliott about existentials, sgeo about... i dunno J probably 07:53:22 what do i ask monqy? 07:53:25 shachaf: system f is easy 07:53:43 monqy: right but apparently making ghc core work with existentials is "really hard????" 07:53:55 so why is making system f work with existentials "really hard????" 07:54:02 I don't know much about J 07:54:13 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:54:13 Other than it's a little like APL I think 07:54:26 typed APL, just picture it 07:54:31 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:54:34 APL with subtyping and polymorphism 07:54:51 You know, someone made a comment and I saw it, years ago, this person liked Factor and J but those names were hard to Google. 07:55:05 I wonder if it was elliott who made that comment and is therefore to blame for me getting into Factor. 07:55:13 also does system f even have existtential quantification 07:55:42 oO 07:55:51 "J is a modern, high-level, general-purpose, high-performance programming language." 07:55:55 i don't know what that means, sgeo. 07:55:56 It's "general-purpose" now? 07:56:02 does it mean you'll tell me what to ask monqy? 07:56:06 Bike: you have to "encode" existentials in system f 07:56:15 oh boy i love encoding things into other things 07:56:15 I don't know APL either. 07:56:37 that would pretty much explain why Core doesn't have them though 07:57:01 there's a section on it in tapl! 07:57:15 god damn it 07:57:18 Oh hey "monad" is another word that varies from language to language. 07:57:26 Or, well, "J" has a different-from-standard meaning 07:57:42 ...why did I quote J? 07:57:42 doesn't it just mean a word that only has one uh argument 07:57:45 I thought something about extension of SQL to define new functions and aggregates, including anonymous, and which could be done without modifying SQLite, as far as I can tell. 07:57:50 instead of a "dyad" 07:57:51 Yes, I think 07:57:51 which has two 07:58:13 that usage actually predates haskell so Check And Mate 07:58:31 haskell and/or whatever introduced monads to programming* 07:58:36 Fuck words. 07:58:43 embrace descriptivism, my son 07:58:49 [tapl] exists X, T(X) =def= forall Y, (forall X, T(X) -> Y) -> Y. looks like one of those silly church encoding tricks 07:58:59 eugh. 07:59:35 Pfhaha, Wiktionary actually defines monad as "(mathematics, computing) A monoid in the category of endofunctors." 07:59:37 Dear god why would I even glance at J again if you learn J and then walk away for a while you forget everything all code becomes unreadbal 07:59:39 unreadable 07:59:40 after leibniz of course. 07:59:49 At least, I assume that's the case 07:59:58 have you tried it 08:00:19 this will be your greatest challenge yet. rather than learning a language, you will be unlearning it. 08:00:41 Once someone told me exactly how it means, "monoid in the category of endofunctors", then I can see, yes and that seem like it might be a simple definition of a monad. 08:01:22 It's pretty simple if you know what a monoid and an endofunctor are. Which most people don't. Go math! 08:02:34 well this is monoid in the category-theoretical sense right? 08:02:46 I mean, most functions don't have clear names 08:02:52 The part I didn't quite understand at first was "category of endofunctors" but once explained then it makes sense, since I already understand monoid, category, endofunctors. 08:02:59 Well, they have names, the names just don't show up in source 08:03:23 monqy: they're "the same" aren't they 08:03:45 Does J have the sort of metaprogramming stuff that I heard APL has? 08:04:00 APL has eval, does that count 08:04:44 Bike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid_(category_theory) 08:05:10 "The effort required to become an expert J programmer is closer to that required to become an expert C++ programmer." 08:05:18 Is that intended to be a good thing? 08:05:19 Bike: idk if that's what you'd call "the same" 08:05:45 looks the same to me!! 08:07:26 i like how they still call it "multiplication" 08:12:22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Monoidal_categories what a good category 08:12:51 i think mediawiki allows categories to contain themselves though 08:12:55 can Categories contain themselves 08:13:22 Mathematical categories do not contain themselfs in ordinary set theory, I think. 08:13:36 ordinary set theory doesn't have categories, category theory does 08:14:14 shocking 08:14:21 i know right 08:14:46 6!:0 '' 08:14:52 That is a thing to get the date+time 08:14:55 In J 08:15:04 cool. 08:15:22 It's.... there's concision, and there's concision to the point of unreadability 08:15:24 by the way did you seriously start reading about J because i mentioned you and it in a joke that took half a second to come up 08:15:27 with 08:15:34 not even a good joke! 08:15:41 And I still don't know what to ask monqy. 08:15:52 i'm sure there's some stuff to ask me, but i won't tell you 08:16:00 god fucking damn it 08:16:01 maybe ask elliott 08:16:37 what's the fuckin command 08:16:41 @ask bike hello?? 08:16:42 You can tell yourself! 08:16:48 @ask elliott what do i ask monqy 08:16:49 Consider it noted. 08:17:38 by the way 08:17:55 why is category theory called category theory when as far as i can tell the relations between categories are like a trillion times as important as categories 08:18:23 relations between categories theory 08:18:29 it'll catch on im sure 08:19:28 "x+.y is the greatest common divisor of x and y . If the arguments are boolean (0 or 1), the functions +. and *." 08:19:30 functor theory i'm telling you 08:19:33 or morphism theory 08:19:40 you could sound like moronic biologists!!! 08:19:56 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:19:57 It.... almost makes sense to use +. and *. for GCD and LCM. In an insane sort of way 08:20:02 Sgeo: did that cut off 08:20:21 Oh, I forgot to paste the rest 08:20:22 "are equivalent to logical or and and. " 08:20:28 yeah that's what i thought 08:20:37 hey you know what would be cool? APL but with category theory instead of matrices and arrays. 08:20:46 new life goal, learn enough cat theory to make that esolang 08:21:32 there are a whole bunch of languages grounded in category theory aren't there? just none off the top of my head 08:21:46 it should be called monoidoid theory 08:21:57 maybe not to the extent apl is "grounded" in arrays...but what would that even mean for categories 08:22:01 shachaf: imo yes 08:22:09 or monoidoidoid theory? 08:22:14 "xtreem version" 08:22:15 no that's too far 08:22:21 monqy isn't xtreem enough 08:22:29 for monoidoidoid theory 08:22:48 monqy: but do any of those languages use ⍋? 08:22:50 are you xtreem enough for monoidoidoidoid theory??? 08:22:54 Bike: who knows 08:23:40 If Perl is line noise, is J highly compressed Perl? 08:23:56 anyway so i'm going to take my copy of A Programming Language and my copy of Categories for the Working Mathematician and I'm going to use the cut-up technique to make a novel about ninja pornographers, and then burn the result and smoke it 08:25:40 sounds like a plan 08:28:01 "Categorical quantum mechanics can also be seen as a type theoretic form of quantum logic that, in contrast to traditional quantum logic, supports formal deductive reasoning." 08:31:16 2 * 4 + 5 08:31:17 18 08:31:31 hi?? 08:31:57 right, apl doesn't have operator precedence 08:32:02 and... i guess j is right to left? ok. 08:32:22 theres all sorts of right-associativity going on yes 08:32:53 𝔥𝔦 𝔪𝔬𝔫𝔮𝔶 08:34:39 We used 3 : 0 to define the verb. The phrase verb define is equivalent and some find it easier to read. However, it hides information and we will use the 3 : 0 form. 08:34:42 Oh, ok 08:34:49 This helps preserve my sanity a little 08:36:26 Bike: maybe you were right about this asking sgeo about j thing.... 08:37:02 i'd like to deny all responsibility for this now. thanks 08:40:17 -!- glogbackup has joined. 08:56:36 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:57:27 "Control structures are only allowed in definitions and you cannot type one directly into the ijx window for execution." 08:57:33 Reminds me of Forth :/ 08:58:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:02:17 Haneb 09:02:45 shachello 09:06:38 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:12:31 -!- scarf has quit. 09:13:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:15:38 -!- evincar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:22:13 * Sgeo gets irritated at J apparently using floating-point 09:22:31 "The 0.5 and 0.25 are stored exactly, but the 0.1 is stored inexactly, and when displayed with maximum precision shows as 0.10000000000000001 . 09:22:31 These are facts of life with the way computers store floating point numbers and apply to all computer languages, not just J. " 09:23:17 -!- evincar has joined. 09:26:36 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4622163 09:26:39 Can I punch this person? 09:26:40 Please? 09:26:55 Actually, hmm, I guess it could be accurate 09:26:56 n/m 09:27:15 "In binary" isn't the same as "Using bits to encode it" 09:28:36 -!- evincar has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:30:13 Punch first, ask questions later. 09:37:55 -!- fungot has joined. 09:38:05 A fungot. 09:38:05 fizzie: sorry, wrong channel. still makes the exact same 09:38:06 fungot: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 09:38:25 ^echo @messages 09:38:25 @messages @messages 09:38:25 RocketJSquirrel said 11m 5d 19h 35m 53s ago: You are a gentleman and a scholar. 09:38:25 shachaf said 7h 43m 22s ago: hi 09:38:48 almost a year, wow 09:38:48 That's... interesting. 09:38:57 > 0.1 09:38:59 monqy++ 09:38:59 0.1 09:39:08 > 1 - 0.9 09:39:08 FreeFull: we're having a moment of silence don't ruin it!! 09:39:09 9.999999999999998e-2 09:39:19 @karmy monqy 09:39:19 monqy has a karma of -12 09:39:27 @karmy shachaf 09:39:27 shachaf has a karma of 5 09:39:31 i used to have -13 but then shachaf ruined it 09:39:32 monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ monqy++ 09:39:39 "sorry" 09:39:42 @karma monqy 09:39:42 monqy has a karma of 0 09:39:48 zen 09:39:56 (thats what zen means right) 09:40:06 it might 09:40:08 zen again, it might not 09:40:19 :-) 09:40:24 :·) 09:41:04 :o) 09:41:13 : ) 09:41:23 :^) 09:41:27 :() 09:41:44 :0) 09:41:48 monqy: help i don't know how to think 09:41:54 data Step k o r = Stop | Yield o r | forall t. Await (t -> r) (k t) r 09:41:55 shachaf: ????help 09:41:59 uh oh 09:42:06 how can you simplify Await 09:42:11 is this one of those things 09:42:21 at first i thought::::: forall t. (t -> r) ((k :+: Proxy) t) 09:42:25 except that doesn't work 09:42:26 it has an extended precision implementation 09:42:26 ? 09:42:26 and yes, you can use rationals instead of floating point 09:42:26 3r5 etc. 09:42:32 so "what can you do" 09:42:37 monqy: imafraid itis 09:43:17 imo ask elliott he knows everything about existentials 09:43:46 monqy: imo the Await part is like (r,CoYoneda k r) 09:43:51 by imo i mean edwardk said so 09:43:57 but it makes sense 09:44:24 monqy: btw are you a CoYoneda expert 09:45:00 not to my knowledge 09:45:12 monqy: well you know how CoYoneda IORef = a read-only IORef 09:45:50 help which coyoneda should i be looking at 09:46:53 these haskell searchy things aren't working so great but they turned up a result at least 09:47:14 from zzo's package?? 09:47:18 no 09:47:24 CoYoneda f a = forall r. CoYoneda (r -> a) (f r) 09:47:48 zzo's coyoneda uses different letters... 09:48:32 does it use z 09:48:36 i heard zzo likes that letter 09:48:49 instead of a it uses x, and instead of r it uses z 09:49:22 imo it should use z and o 09:49:27 good idea 09:49:50 monqy: anyway when f is a functor CoYoneda f is isomorphic to f?? 09:49:58 but when it's not a functor you can get "weird things" 09:50:02 aight 09:50:10 sounds cool 09:50:31 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:50:34 by cool you mean boring right 09:50:44 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 09:50:51 maybe THIS CoYoneda will be more to your liking!!!!!!!!!! http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/co-Yoneda+lemma 09:51:00 no!!!! and edwardk was right about that Await part being like (r,CoYoneda k r) 09:51:06 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:51:19 mm mm i'll read this maybe it will be more to my liking 09:51:25 monqy: i know he was right 09:51:41 but i was wondering whether you can express it like the way i said 09:51:46 but i guess not?? 09:51:53 «every presheaf is a colimit of representables and more precisely that it is the “colimit over itself of all the representables contained in it”.» 09:52:06 monqy: do you know what a limit is 09:52:10 "in a category" 09:52:29 i think maybe i used to? 09:52:42 can you explain it 09:52:50 i have ct homework 09:52:54 well i forgot what it is!!! are you just testing me 09:53:05 except instead of school homework it's "someone giving you an exercise in irc homework" 09:55:57 :| 09:56:51 do you have a no "homework policy" 09:57:36 i have a no-shachaf-asking-me-to-explain-things-he-probably-already-understands-and-knows-i-don't policy 09:58:20 limits are probably really easy too but i just really don't know much category theory at all 09:59:02 monqy: actually i don't understand at all : ( 09:59:14 i guess first i need to understand: 09:59:19 index categories 09:59:20 diagrams 09:59:20 cones 09:59:33 factorizations 09:59:41 "other stuffs" 09:59:44 You first need to understand everything 09:59:48 Then it's easy 09:59:56 do i need to bake an apple pie first 09:59:59 i heard that's hard 10:00:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:00:19 No, no, you want a soft apple pie. 10:00:30 well afaiui a diagram is just another name for functor if you're meant to think of it as some category indexed by another category 10:00:30 " can Categories contain themselves" small categories can contain only sets, big categories can contain categories, but only small ones. afaiu. there are no inherent problems with having a category that contains itself but usually you want to have some kind of set theory as well so the usual restrictions apply. 10:00:59 mystery solved 10:01:00 well a diagram is mapping a category to particular kind of other category right 10:01:08 oh hi oklopol 10:01:12 you know limits right 10:01:27 wait i got it backwards 10:01:29 I no know limits 10:02:15 and ordinary set theory has categories. it just doesn't have very large categories. if you restrict to a megahuge set of your choice, you still get categories buildable from those. 10:03:16 oklopol: Is megahuge set a technical term? 10:04:07 monqy: wow am i bad at types or what 10:04:13 shachaf: ?? 10:04:13 this is hard :'( 10:04:16 Machines 10:04:23 the "Await" thing 10:04:33 yeah i thought it smelled like 'machines' 10:04:39 maybe i should learn coq to be good at types 10:05:51 " you know limits right" i suppose 10:06:04 i have to check which is limit and which is colimit tho 10:06:41 btw my exercise is (no spoilers!!) 10:06:51 prove that every category which is small and complete is also cocomplete 10:07:06 and usually i forget about it but sometimes i remember?? 10:08:12 so i suppose you have to take the definition of cocomplete and write it in terms of a limit, which will be small if the category is, so that the limit exists due to completeness. 10:08:26 and apparently this exercise has a "dark secret" 10:08:29 is my take without giving this the least amount of thought 10:08:34 i see 10:08:48 what sort of dark secret 10:09:59 @tell shachaf Exercise: Any category that is small and complete is also cocomplete. Hint: This is a direct generalization of the lattice theoretic result, e.g. the supremum of the empty set is the infimum of the whole lattice. Extra credit: What is the dark secret of this exercise? 10:10:04 oh there was also a hint 10:10:29 is a "dark secret" made of "dark matter" ? 10:11:04 yeah that sounds about right 10:11:11 regarding the hint i mean 10:11:34 dunno what the secret is. something about categories being ordered classes maybe. 10:11:36 dark secret sounds like you might have to assume some nasty ol axioms 10:11:57 monqy: i think it might a kind of dark secret that means "this has to do with a haskell thing" 10:12:03 because of "something i heard" 10:12:07 but that's just a guess 10:13:50 monqy: remember when ddarius was in #haskell 10:13:55 no 10:14:00 what!! 10:14:07 i'm not a "#haskell guy" 10:14:10 ddarius was the best 10:14:26 monqy: "then yru in it" 10:14:34 idk 10:14:45 well #haskell is terrible 10:14:50 except when ddarius is in it?? 10:14:56 maybe because sometimes people say funny things 10:15:08 and occasionally i look over there when someone says a funny thing 10:15:14 usually i just don't pay attention though 10:15:26 by funny i mean funny in a bad way 10:16:11 " oklopol: Is megahuge set a technical term?" not afaik, although i wouldn't be that surprised if it were. 10:16:17 like that one time that guy had that thing about learning monads from the wikipedia page and not doing any other haskell until he grokked it 10:16:28 i remember that tiem!! 10:16:32 i seem to remember that some of the cardinal terms are somewhat silly 10:16:40 did he ever succeed "in his quest" 10:16:44 i forget 10:16:51 but he has said other funny things since then 10:16:55 which i also forget 10:17:04 who was it 10:17:31 hrumph iirc 10:17:55 oh maybe we're thinking of different ones 10:18:17 what kind of "channel guy" are you 10:18:23 #esoteric? 10:18:35 i'm not really a channel guy? 10:20:17 o 10:20:24 maybe i secretly am 10:20:27 and i don't know it 10:20:29 o 10:21:28 (<~) :: Monad m => ProcessT m b c -> MachineT m k b -> MachineT m k c 10:21:31 mp <~ ma = MachineT $ runMachineT mp >>= \v -> case v of 10:21:33 Stop -> return Stop 10:21:36 Yield o k -> return $ Yield o (k <~ ma) 10:21:38 Await f Refl ff -> runMachineT ma >>= \u -> case u of 10:21:41 Stop -> runMachineT $ ff <~ stopped 10:21:43 Yield o k -> runMachineT $ f o <~ k 10:21:46 Await g kg fg -> return $ Await (\a -> MachineT (return v) <~ g a) kg (MachineT (return v) <~ fg) 10:21:49 this is ridiculous 10:21:58 yes 10:22:26 full of "fiddly bits" 10:22:29 what does it do 10:22:44 -- | Build a new 'Machine' by adding a 'Process' to the output of an old 'Machine' 10:22:50 ah 10:23:04 Process a b ~ Stop | Yield b (Process a b) | Await (a -> Process a b) (Process a b) 10:23:16 the second part of Await is the "failure case......" 10:23:34 so it's like a weird free monad 10:23:44 which isn't a monad come to think of it 10:23:57 or maybe it's just a coroutine monad applied to ()?? 10:24:27 looks like a thing alright 10:24:46 monqy: are you a "free monad expert" 10:24:53 are you even an expert in anything?? 10:24:56 other than type theory i guess 10:25:08 idk probably not??? :( 10:25:16 i know some free monad stuff maybe?? 10:25:20 you kind of sound like an expert 10:25:52 monqy: btw you know the STT thing? 10:26:33 something type theory? im blanking on what the s is 10:27:11 no ST transformer 10:27:15 "boring haskell sorry" 10:27:19 ah.... 10:27:28 mr.hird was trying to work out what a good primitive was 10:27:33 maybe he didn't mention it in here 10:27:40 i dont recall it 10:28:28 monqy: so what's this Stop thing 10:28:33 it seems "really final" 10:28:52 i dont know much about 'machines' 10:29:26 im guessing it means "Stop" though 10:32:22 why is it co-cone and not ne 10:33:00 maximal confusion 10:33:18 resist... urge... to say nfusion 10:33:29 i'm sorry 10:34:03 oklopol: What do you call foo :: p b a -> Either (p b x) (p x a)? 10:34:57 i do not know. 10:35:46 what do you call it? 10:37:03 mpose 10:37:13 Even though it's not quite the right name. 10:56:55 tee :: Monad m => ProcessT m a a' -> ProcessT m b b' -> TeeT m a' b' c -> TeeT m a b c 10:56:58 tee ma mb m = MachineT $ runMachineT m >>= \v -> case v of 10:57:01 Stop -> return Stop 10:57:03 Yield o k -> return $ Yield o $ tee ma mb k 10:57:06 Await f L ff -> runMachineT ma >>= \u -> case u of 10:57:08 Stop -> runMachineT $ tee stopped mb ff 10:57:11 Yield a k -> runMachineT $ tee k mb $ f a 10:57:13 Await g Refl fg -> 10:57:16 return $ Await (\a -> tee (g a) mb $ encased v) L $ tee fg mb $ encased v 10:57:19 Await f R ff -> runMachineT mb >>= \u -> case u of 10:57:21 Stop -> runMachineT $ tee ma stopped ff 10:57:24 Yield b k -> runMachineT $ tee ma k $ f b 10:57:26 Await g Refl fg -> 10:57:29 return $ Await (\b -> tee ma (g b) $ encased v) R $ tee ma fg $ encased v 10:57:32 help 10:58:40 what does that do 10:58:47 did someone woops something 10:59:00 it "tee's" 2 'machines' together 10:59:04 or something?? 10:59:08 no that's backwards.. 10:59:24 it looks like it uhhhh 10:59:29 something about two processes and a tee 10:59:34 then you get a tee 10:59:43 something with composing some stuff maybe 10:59:51 yes 10:59:59 but look at that implementation 11:00:03 yeah uh 11:00:04 "it'sc razy" 11:00:14 i don't really want to look at that too much 11:00:25 im not crazy enough for it 11:01:21 um me neither............ 11:01:39 i think you have to be "real crazy" for it 11:01:47 like even more than mr.hird?? 11:01:59 who wrote it, mr.kmett???????? 11:02:13 being 'machines' and all 11:03:36 yes.. 11:03:41 well thats what "git blame" says 11:04:39 but maybe it was one of the"other people" 11:04:49 maybe it was me 11:05:04 like mr.bjarnason or mr.chiusano?????????????????????? 11:05:21 J forks remind me a little of Caleskell 11:05:32 Or, well, the sin+cos thing, 11:07:14 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 11:12:49 monqy: btw did you read those slides 11:13:24 yeah..it made perfect sense up to the homotopys part and then it started losing me 11:13:49 but i opened up some tabs with the stuff in it 11:14:10 the first word in the slides is "Homotopy".. didnt make it very far imo 11:14:45 btw do you know about "axiom K" and all that 11:14:57 i've seen "axiom K" but never used it 11:15:09 k 11:15:17 (no that wasn't 11:15:25 just a lead up to a pun!!!!!!) 11:15:51 my experience with it is limited to that chapter of "cpdt" about equality proofs. i think there's a section on axiom k in there? 11:16:15 i haven't read "cpdt" :'( 11:16:21 shold i read that 11:16:26 it's my preferred coq book 11:16:43 so if you want to learn coq and want to learn it from a book 11:16:51 i guess that's what i'd recommend 11:17:07 what about ´software foundations´ 11:18:09 software foundations goes into some pl theory stuff but sorta skimps on the coq, so it's maybe a good introduction to some of that stuff and in particular working with it in coq but 11:19:32 i don't feel it's satisfactory if you want to get a taste from your book of the sorta stuff cpdt offers 11:19:53 so if i know nothing about anything 11:19:57 which one should i read!! 11:20:03 -!- mig22 has joined. 11:21:30 i'd suggest read cpdt and tapl but keep sf around in case you want a "second opinion". it's only second and not third because of that Benjamin Pierce intersection 11:22:14 I also recall sf having more exercises than cpdt that are interspersed throughout the text so you might want to follow along with it too if needed 11:23:01 in particular if you want some pl-y exercises catered to coqwork; tapl's are more pen-and-papery unless you build the coq ground-up which is entirely reasonable if you want to I won't judge you if you do that 11:23:45 hmm ok 11:23:56 and by read tapl i guess i mean read however much into it as it helps you understand the theory and how to work with it (proofs, etc)...no need to read it cover to cover and reabsorb all the details you're already familiar with 11:24:38 i guess the chapter dependency list might help there... 11:25:14 if you really want to be thorough you could also learn agda and read attapl, neither of which i have experience with... 11:27:49 ok 11:27:58 that could be a lot of reading 11:28:12 no need to be that thorough!!! I sure wasn't 11:28:27 well but you already know everything right 11:28:27 though i often feel i should be that thorough.......... 11:28:33 i don't know agda :'( 11:28:47 monqy "already knows everything except agda and some math stuff" monqy 11:29:05 in particular there are some things that i'm curious as to how agda handles, not having tactics and all 11:29:26 like tactics are gross but they can sorta help with a few really gross things and if agda can handle them nicely that'd be really great 11:30:25 and some other agda proofy stylistic things that i'm interested in but not as interested 11:31:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:32:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:33:06 -!- azaq23 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:33:40 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:36:16 -!- azaq23 has quit (Client Quit). 11:36:45 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:37:15 -!- azaq23 has quit (Client Quit). 11:40:09 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:51:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:57:23 -!- mig22 has left. 12:03:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:05:50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartness_relation 12:07:00 monqy: ☝ 12:07:06 do you know anything about "that stuff" 12:07:55 uhh i think iv'e seen it maybe once? 12:08:00 don't know much about it at all 12:08:06 aside from well it exists 12:08:21 and the thing with constructive logic 12:08:26 monqy: well that's like a cocategory!!!! 12:08:37 except it's "also commutative" 12:08:55 so i guess it's not quite it?? 12:09:16 but you know about "constructive stuff" so maybe you know about it 12:09:37 i've never seen apartness relations outside of wikipedia woops woops 12:09:42 co-transitivity is kinda wacky tho 12:10:00 co-transitivity is what you get when you "bbiizzaarroo"ify composition 12:10:07 ye 12:10:18 if you remember how bizarrification went 12:10:27 "reverse the arrows" 12:10:37 well it's not just plain old reversing the arrows 12:10:46 dolio said this is called a cointernal category?? 12:10:54 but you don't have to switch from products to sums 12:10:58 if you don't want to 12:11:06 do you know about that 12:11:11 :0 12:19:42 -!- carado has joined. 12:38:53 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:38:58 -!- DH____ has joined. 12:42:03 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:46:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:50:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:51:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:51:54 disconcerting discovery of the day: there is a duran duran wikia 12:52:33 Hantom_Hoover 12:53:02 hampton hoover? 12:53:21 `?hh Phantom_Hoover 12:55:07 Phantom_Hoover: the band or the barbarella character, and which would be more disconcerting? 12:57:08 oerjan, well it'd be a bit of a stretch to have a whole wiki about a barbarella character 12:57:21 if you say so. 12:57:27 hoerjan 12:57:49 shachi 13:01:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:02:54 SHA chaff 13:04:54 `cat bin/? 13:07:28 `echo hi 13:08:39 Hm, I didn't expect hackego would be broken this long 13:09:11 Jafet: wtf were you doing in there. also i don't think reverts are cumulative. 13:09:57 Wellll I did learn something 13:10:04 iconv hangs if it can't find the BOM 13:11:44 oh no i realize why there was that strange delquotee file 13:12:02 Jafet: sed -ie doesn't work as sed -i -e, it does -i with e as backup file suffix 13:12:08 *oh now 13:12:31 imo delquotee sounds like a "good idea" 13:12:43 for most of the quotes in here 13:13:05 I don't think it's "easy" 13:13:26 wat 13:15:40 Oh `revert is like emacs undo 13:15:51 I never understood emacs undo 13:16:10 Emacs undo is where a second undo undoes the first undo? 13:16:44 Hmm, no. 13:16:47 What's emacs undo? 13:17:14 It's... complicated 13:17:15 @gregor HackEgo is dead, also please tell me there is a way to get the HackEgo website to show diffs between a particular revision and the tip 13:17:16 Unknown command, try @list 13:17:21 @tell gregor HackEgo is dead, also please tell me there is a way to get the HackEgo website to show diffs between a particular revision and the tip 13:17:22 Consider it noted. 13:17:45 class Dipointed a where tip :: p a a 13:23:52 Jafet: you were messing around with HackEgo so much i'm paranoid about what you actually achieved... 13:25:57 it's pretty cool that one of the big category theory guys lives in a shack in the pyrenees now <-- maybe i should move to a shack in the pyrenees. i might actually get more done that way. 13:27:13 getting suitable broadband might be a bitch, though. 13:30:04 @tell OeRjAn is lambdabot case sensitive about nicks? 13:30:05 You can tell yourself! 13:30:11 apparently not. 13:30:58 @tell Gregor Because checking if someone messed up horribly with a long row of commands is a bitch. 13:30:58 Consider it noted. 13:33:56 i don't even know what a monoid is <-- a monoid is a member of the variety of universal algebras with two operations (*) (binary) and e (constant) given by the equations a*(b*c) = (a*b)*c, e*a = a, a*e = a. hth. 13:34:40 (a variety is a family of universal algebras given by such equations.) 13:34:41 oerjan: oh 13:34:44 that's easy :D 13:34:47 i love it! 13:35:54 (the equations are supposed to hold for all a,b,c.) 13:38:18 other well-known varieties are the varieties of semigroups, groups and rings. fields are not a variety because one of the rules of fields (x invertible if x /= 0) cannot be expressed with such equations. 13:38:39 s/rules/axioms/ 13:39:16 vector spaces can be a variety if you're willing to have one operation for multiplying by each scalar. 13:40:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:41:49 perhaps even d-modules are a variety in that way. 13:42:18 (ordinary modules over a fixed ring are. that's just a minor generalization of vector spaces.) 13:42:27 Can we give timwi a warning? 13:42:53 For nominating his own language for featured language 13:45:45 you just did. 13:46:10 I meant a Warning 13:49:25 otoh the Process section seems not to be clear enough that you're only allowed to suggest _one_ language. 13:53:54 Funciton _is_ nice though, someone should nominate it :P 13:54:43 I haven't currently nominated a language, but personally I don't like Funciton, so I won't 13:54:55 ok 13:55:23 hm Ziim also looks pretty 13:56:37 also ridiculously hard to program 14:04:48 `addquote wait cricket /= croquet?????????????????????????????????? 14:04:53 oops 14:15:24 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:26:57 oerjan......... 14:41:22 I wake up and shachaf is still doing it. 14:41:22 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:41:39 Doing what? 14:41:45 * shachaf tried to sleep and didn't manage it. 14:45:28 it's because doing it is s*hit by falling anvil* 14:47:21 doing it is shit? 14:47:28 oops 14:48:06 the anvil is supposed to punish horrible puns, not make them 14:53:49 "Nominating two of my own languages and one other." 14:53:56 "Any user (whether registered or anonymous) can suggest a language to be featured by listing it on this page; however, *suggesting your own languages is forbidden*." 14:54:03 A+ 14:54:41 elliott: i also edited that "a" to a bolded "one" 14:54:52 i don't think it was quite clear before 14:54:58 fair enough. 14:57:13 * oerjan finds r/AskHistorians dangerously addictive 14:57:51 are you readinggit oerjan? 14:57:55 yep 14:57:59 bad idea 14:58:30 although i'm considering closing the subreddit after reading the tabs i've already opened 14:58:53 let's s/after/before/ just to be sure 15:01:13 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 15:02:15 they have a policy in top comments against speculation, and also a policy against quoting wikipedia. you just know it's high quality. 15:02:15 -!- yorkdove has joined. 15:04:04 -!- yorkdove has left. 15:09:48 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:15:52 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:24:35 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 15:25:05 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 15:45:20 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:57:58 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 16:06:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:07:55 goodbyerjan 17:33:34 Sgeolang is J now? 17:34:26 Sgeolang has always been J. 17:34:28 War is peace. 17:36:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:37:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:47:17 -!- Bike has joined. 18:07:43 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:09:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 18:09:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:23:29 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:23:35 Hello 18:26:44 hello 18:27:25 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away. 18:33:44 PLOOOOTS http://zem.fi/esostats/people_tod.html (disclaimer: is beta) 18:34:43 Loading data. (Probably...) 18:34:53 Yes, well, it's probably loading. 18:34:57 Possibly not. 18:34:59 fizzie, yay 18:35:04 why right now though 18:35:13 fizzie, and it loaded finally 18:35:22 Bike: But it would say "hopefully" if it didn't run scripts at all. 18:36:42 Vorpal: Well, I mean, I think it was shachaf that told me to make http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_h.html when there was discussion about the h-index of yesterday, and it just sort of went from there. 18:36:43 fizzie, is there number of characters per message? 18:36:55 fizzie, I want to see if I write longer messages at certain times of the day 18:36:55 Not yet. It's all very preliminary. 18:37:16 probably not, but it would certainly be an interesting result if that varied widely 18:38:48 Also it should be probably possible to deselect "other" if you just want to see your own numbers and aren't prolific enough for that to be a large fraction. 18:39:08 fizzie: How did you pickify the list of people? 18:39:15 I like how I am on that list ~50 times. 18:39:25 I also like how can you please let that list be resized or make it bigger? 18:40:06 I like how that plot shows me being awake roughly 24 hours a day. 18:40:27 elliott: By an impartial method, I forget how exactly. Something about taking some kind of a top-100 list and then grouping duplicates I noticed. (I don't really know all your various names.) 18:40:46 It shows me as being the most active around 9pm 18:41:02 elliott: is that inaccurate 18:41:15 Bike: No. 18:41:25 elliott: what do i ask monqy 18:41:27 fizzie: Why is fax "fax:" on that list? 18:41:45 I probably typoed. 18:42:01 fizzie: OK, I'm actually on the list twice. 18:42:06 You can merge zuff in. 18:42:16 zomg fancy graphs 18:42:23 fizzie: Can you run this on #haskell? 18:42:45 shachaf: I don't have #haskell logs in my postgres db. I'd need to write an importer first. :/ 18:44:01 elliott: I have merged it (and fixed fax), but it'll take a while before I can be bothered rerunning the whole people-activity deal. It's written so that it's cheap to update incrementally, but processing the whole thing takes maybe twenty minutes if I change the list-of-collected-nicks. 18:44:02 http://zem.fi/esostats/fig/bots_20y.png 18:44:11 fizzie: How come lambdabot-or-maybe-fungot started existing in 2002? 18:44:12 elliott: the best way would be to interpret them as it wants, evaluating them at macroexpansion time, i decided i'd make an asian pregnant one. or something. 18:44:17 That one-pixel line. 18:44:22 -!- Vorpal has set topic: WHYH HHHHHHELLOHH THEHRE | FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE | concealed in fold of goat-time lumber | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Graphs! http://zem.fi/esostats/index.html. 18:44:29 fungot, how do you feel about this? 18:44:30 Bike: i just had more pieces. and then, do so 18:44:40 elliott: That's just it defaulting to zero from the beginning of the logs. :/ 18:45:09 i think the topic is making progressively less sense... 18:45:49 -!- elliott has set topic: STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ START AGAIN. 18:45:55 fizzie, selecting a normalized plot for 2002 looks REALLY weird 18:45:56 HTH. 18:46:00 is there no data for most of it? 18:46:23 Well, the channel only existed for, like, a few weeks in 2002. 18:46:38 yeah hm 18:46:47 Vorpal: Yes, it's really quite sparse. 18:46:59 Vorpal: I suppose it does end up as zeros for most of it. 18:47:15 fizzie, there are gaps up until 2006 I think you do a single year 18:47:25 less and less gaps for each year 18:48:23 Vorpal: The gaps go (partially) away if you add some smoothing. I suppose it's just hitting particular two-minute intervals for which the total numbers end up as zero. 18:48:44 yeah 18:58:39 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:59:17 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 18:59:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:00:49 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 19:03:23 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb. 19:10:48 elliott seems to be quite active 19:11:09 according to these graphs 19:12:57 There are graphs charting individual people? 19:13:50 Well it shows elliott in yellow, ais523 in red, oerjan in blue, fizzie in green etc. for me 19:13:52 fizzie, why do the graphs go back 20 years... 19:14:29 and elliott alone seems to produce about 1/4 of the messages 19:14:52 Phantom_Hoover: weren't you here in 1993 19:15:00 (1993 was 20 years ago???????????????) 19:15:16 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:15:26 omg i was only born 2 years after 20 years ago! 19:16:16 wow Phantom_Hoover is old 19:16:24 don't be silly 19:16:28 past your ʹ Phantom_Hoover 19:16:30 "sry" 19:16:35 i'm at the threshold of old 19:16:46 shit i'm only a year younger than Sgeo used to be 19:16:53 threshold 19:16:57 coïncidence? 19:17:00 * Gregor shakes his cane at you. 19:17:01 Gregor: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 19:17:04 Join me, oerjan. 19:17:18 please Gregor 19:17:28 only oerjan and cpressey are proper old 19:17:54 i'm proper old :'( 19:17:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:18:03 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:18:13 -!- HackEgo has joined. 19:18:44 shachaf, you're stupid fake old 19:18:50 Why did the use of "x" boom in 2005? 19:19:03 A new esolang with that had an x in it? 19:19:11 fizzie seems old but i think he just acts his age 19:19:13 I blame elliott 19:19:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:19:35 the word "fuck" has a meaning that depends heavily on context, and arguably doesn't have a meaning in its own right nowadays 19:19:43 as a result, can it actually be considered a swearword? 19:19:47 ("shit" is in a similar situation) 19:19:53 It's a swearthingy 19:20:19 ais523: not if prefixed by "brain" :D? 19:20:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:20:29 "brainfuck" is its own entity 19:20:38 it's a swearword when you use it for swearing? whatever swearword is supposed to mean 19:20:54 yeah, that's a good point 19:21:13 I guess the definition of a swearword is a word whose actual meaning is irrelevant, you just say it when annoyed or for shock value 19:21:36 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:21:39 Taneb: um no 19:21:44 Taneb: proper 19:22:10 stupid fake 19:22:18 You're really 12 19:22:30 ais523, and why doesn't the same apply to 'damn' 19:22:32 i wish 19:22:52 ais523: I think that definition makes "fuck" clearly a swearword 19:23:06 Phantom_Hoover: when used as a swearword, it does; "damn" without context is without context 19:23:08 olsner: yeah, I guess so 19:23:25 I think the argument is more that they aren't swearwords unless they're being used as swearwords 19:23:25 ais523, so do you interpret 'fuck you' the same as you do 'damn you'. 19:23:30 did you know: voltage is a swearword 19:23:46 people say it for shock value all the time 19:23:47 Phantom_Hoover: yeah, but "fuck you" is a compliment rather than an insult if you interpret it that way 19:24:17 Er, some people would disagree strongly on that point. 19:24:46 nonconsensual sex is not generally agreed to be complimentary 19:24:51 or do I completely misunderstand the interpretation here 19:25:13 (THAT WAS A PUN BTW) 19:25:18 Swearing is what happens when I break hackego 19:26:49 We had an impedance mismatch with that pun, try a more current one. 19:27:09 elliott: hmm 19:27:17 there's nothing about the word "fuck" that implies nonconsensual, though 19:27:33 when it's actually being used with its original meaning, it normally refers to consensual sex 19:27:42 no it doesn't 19:28:38 Fuck is actually a pretty ancient word 19:28:39 Phantom_Hoover: well I rarely hear it used with its original meaning 19:28:43 haha "original meaning" 19:28:49 well surely if you interpret "fuck you" hyperliterally like that it is an unsolicited sexual advance 19:28:52 just saying!!!!! 19:29:03 this interpretation seems pretty hopelessly tortured in general though 19:29:08 since it's not even really grammatical 19:29:11 indeed 19:29:12 ais523, be honest, how often do you hear damn used with its original meaning 19:29:14 It should be "fuck yourself" 19:29:20 "It may go back to the Proto-Indo-European *pug-, *puǵ- ("to strike"; source of Latin pūgnus (“fist”) among many others) ..." 19:29:31 fuckilistics 19:29:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:29:44 olsner, wouldn't there be cognates then... 19:29:56 Phantom_Hoover: hmm 19:29:59 it's not zero, but it's quite low 19:29:59 `?hh elliott 19:30:00 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:30:00 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:30:02 Hmm. 19:30:25 Phantom_Hoover: like german ficken? 19:30:43 oh, that's not actually cognate 19:30:53 false fuckbuddies 19:31:00 `help 19:31:00 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:31:07 `?hh elliott 19:31:13 `run ls bin 19:31:14 oh it might be cognate 19:31:18 I like how it's broken 19:31:19 god i love historical linguistics 19:31:23 elliott: Jafet's fault 19:31:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:32:02 what did Jafet do 19:32:04 What stops me with flooding $pwd with files until it's full 19:32:17 your highly developed sense of ethics 19:32:39 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:32:59 FreeFull, it's version controlled. 19:33:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:34:13 -!- tromp has joined. 19:39:19 On the topic of "to fuck": http://douglemoine.com/english-sentences-without-overt-grammatical-subjects/ 19:43:31 -!- noam__ has joined. 19:44:54 wow, I think I discovered a new level of YouTube comment stupidity 19:44:56 "How on earth did you record video/audio in 2006?" 19:45:52 . 19:46:21 2006 was the year when they banned cameras 19:46:53 -!- noam_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:47:55 I had to double-check the year to make sure it didn't say 1996 (which would have been slightly less stupid) 19:48:16 1726 19:48:25 You still could record video and audio in 1996 19:49:06 indeed 19:49:17 but I could excuse not knowing that, due to the primitive state of the Web at the time 19:49:31 and, as a result, the disconnect in hardware knowledge between different people 19:49:55 Maybe you could, in 1996. 19:50:27 hmm… in 1986, you could definitely record it, but not digitally 19:50:37 you'd need to use film and tape 19:50:45 ais523: You just disappointed me. I always though you were a timetraveler :(. 19:50:51 *thought 19:51:57 btw, a hilarious thought: I saw an advert for the Nokia Lumia (their windows 8 phone thing), and the vast majority of the things advertised in the advert were hardware features, and unrelated to the OS 19:52:30 Did you see that in the future, past or present? 19:52:32 ais523: I saw an advert for the lumia, and went bleck at all parts where you could see windows 8 19:52:51 AnotherTest: past, /obviously/ 19:53:09 ais523: You never know 19:55:20 if I never know, why would you ask me? 19:55:45 s/you/one && s/know/knows 19:56:29 hm I guess s/you(.*)knows/one\1knows would do that 19:57:37 wow, I think I discovered a new level of YouTube comment stupidity "How on earth did you record video/audio in 2006?" <-- yeah that is pretty random. 19:57:45 Also, assuming you was referring to you, ais523, you might know it in the future 19:57:49 stupid? maybe. It just seems totally random to me 19:57:51 although I guess never includes future 19:58:17 Although I should perhaps have said "will never know" to avoid that situation 19:59:34 ais523: I think I finally figured out what 523 is referring to 19:59:40 AnotherTest: it's a random number! 19:59:52 I tell this to anyone who asks, because it's true 19:59:57 just people don't ask very oftne 19:59:58 Not it's not, it's you keeping track of the instances there exist of yourself! 20:00:02 *often 20:00:42 This is why you didn't want me to use ais521 - your good prime twin brother -: it was you but in a different time! 20:03:17 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:05:09 seems like ais523 is actually a pointer to ais 20:05:23 "ais" is pretty ambiguous by itself 20:06:28 Are you actually an Artificial Intelligence System from the 523st century? 20:07:16 AWAY! TO THE FIVE HUNDRED TWENTY THIRST CENTURY! 20:16:51 ais523, don't you always tell everyone about how it was your university account name or something 20:17:09 Phantom_Hoover: yeah 20:17:11 hm it seems ssh has an escape char in the form of ~ (try ~?). I knew of ~. before to kill a broken ssh connection 20:17:12 that's where the random number came from 20:17:17 but the rest of it was new to me 20:17:22 Vorpal: it's ~. 20:17:25 seems you can add port forwarding on the fly 20:17:33 and what not 20:17:34 and yeah, there are a bunch of other commands there 20:17:35 ais523, hm is it? 20:17:40 ~ is the escape char 20:17:46 I always had to add a new line at the end to make it work 20:17:48 otherwise it'd be triggered by accident too often 20:17:56 is it because my ~ is a dead key? 20:18:24 Vorpal: oh, yeah, probably 20:18:24 ais523, but yeah I need enter at the start too 20:18:34 so ~ is how you type the ~ 20:18:51 ais523, no I mean I go: ~. 20:18:54 to make it work 20:19:06 oh, huh 20:19:11 the space to deal with the dead key 20:19:45 ais523, enter altgr+~ altgr+~ . seems to work too 20:20:04 ~~ - send the escape character by typing it twice 20:20:05 hm 20:20:11 4 times for me? 20:20:32 yeah XD 20:21:08 ~R - Request rekey (SSH protocol 2 only) 20:21:11 what does that mean 20:21:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:23:18 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:25:12 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?shortest+non+occuring+sequence 20:25:20 There are two algorithms to solve that problem. 20:25:29 One is to generate all possible solution 20:25:34 wich is exponential 20:25:48 however, not exponential to the length of the input but exponential to the length of the solution. 20:26:04 the other algorithm is polynomial to the length of the input. 20:26:15 now 20:26:44 obviously If you want a longer solution you have to cover more subsequences therefore the length of the input increases 20:27:05 probably the length of the input increases exponentially to the length of the solution. 20:27:20 which states the question 20:27:27 are both algorithms exponential? 20:27:42 or simplified 20:28:41 given there is an algorithm a which can solve a problen in a^b which is independent of the input size 20:29:32 and an algorithm b with O(n^c) which is dependent on the input size and the input size increases probably somewhere near a^b 20:29:40 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:30:16 mroman, hm interesting point 20:30:35 You can generate all possible substrings, sort them and find the first missing 20:30:42 which is all in P. 20:31:10 but I'm not sure if that is actually slover than the brute force algorithm. 20:31:14 *slower 20:33:14 esentially 20:33:17 as an example 20:33:30 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 20:33:44 the brute force algorithm will find a solution in O(1) 20:33:53 because the result is a sequence of length 1 20:34:04 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:34:15 hm if x is the solution then xa...a is the solution to the similar problem with a fixed length 20:34:18 the generate all substring algorithm takes a long time to solve it. 20:34:43 wait no 20:34:52 scratch that 20:35:58 Is there a classification for algorithms which do not depend on the size of the input but on the size of the output :D? 20:36:47 the size of the output is a function of the input, isn't it 20:36:53 well, you have to check your solution against the input 20:36:54 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:36:57 so it does depend on the input 20:37:01 just not one that's linear in the length of the input, in this case 20:37:16 but its linear 20:37:19 its probably 20:37:36 O(n*a^b) where a is the alphabet size and b the size of the output. 20:38:22 Bike: But you don't know the size of the output yet 20:38:37 well, b <= n obviously 20:38:58 so what, we're talking about the complexity of an algorithm, not finding the output itself! 20:39:36 the complexity of euclid's algorithm depends on a shitload of insane stuff that's harder to find than the gcd~ 20:40:52 I guess one has to calculate how big n has to be to generate a solution of at least size b. 20:41:10 mroman, what is the average running time of these algorithms though? 20:41:17 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 20:41:42 I don't know. 20:41:56 hm 20:42:32 For a solution of length two you need at least an input of size 3 20:42:35 that's all I know :) 20:43:34 also 20:44:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:44:04 well 20:44:05 abc 20:44:16 It's difficult to calculate 20:44:22 because abc covers bc 20:44:26 and abc 20:45:13 abccaacbabb has aaa as a solution. 20:46:10 now you'd have to calculate how many characters you need to add to increase the solution to aaaa ;) 20:46:21 mroman, wasn't it the shortest solution? 20:46:31 (assuming the alphabet is abc) 20:47:06 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:47:15 Vorpal: yes. 20:47:22 there is exactly one solution if that's what you mean. 20:47:52 I'm pretty certain that the required input size increases exponential. 20:47:53 mroman, well there could be several. both bc and ac could be missing from the string for example 20:48:00 All empiric data suggests so. 20:48:13 but I have no formal proof whatesoever to back it up :) 20:48:39 :( why aren't J verbs closures? 20:48:54 does J even have lexical binding 20:49:54 It has a form of local variables 20:50:06 =. inside a verb defines a variable local to that verb 20:50:47 'The tempest prognosticator, also known as the leech barometer, is a 19th-century invention by George Merryweather in which leeches are used in a barometer. The twelve leeches are kept in small bottles inside the device; when they become agitated by an approaching storm they attempt to climb out of the bottles and trigger a small hammer which strikes a bell. The likelihood of a storm is indicated by the number of times the bell is str 20:51:10 The likelihood of a storm is indicated by the number of times the bell is str 20:51:37 striken? 20:54:25 Of course J control structures aren't expressions 20:54:28 *facepalm* 20:55:41 hey foul, you already complained about that yesterday! 20:55:54 also i thought a large part of j was mapping things over things instead of control flow 20:57:17 I complained about a different but related thing yesterday 20:57:26 convolute with the step function instead of conditionalizing on <, or some shit 20:57:51 Wouldn't be surprised 21:02:14 -!- monqy has joined. 21:07:25 -!- ogrom has joined. 21:08:19 @tell evincar The haskell solution to type inferencing arbitrarily ordered function definitions is to do an initial dependency graph calculation and infer strongly connected components together in an order such that everything they depend on is inferenced first. so functions in the same strongly connected component can only call each other with one type. you can use explicit type annotations to break this restriction ("polymorphic recursion") 21:08:19 Consider it noted. 21:15:43 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 21:17:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:17:54 -!- carado has joined. 21:22:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:35:34 `echo test 21:35:47 `help 21:35:48 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:36:18 `revert 1871 21:36:36 huh 21:36:42 `help 21:36:43 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:37:18 weird how `help works 21:37:33 `fetch http://google.org/ 21:37:40 oops 21:37:42 `fetch http://google.com/ 21:37:49 but nothing else 21:38:03 i have a file named /.pulse-cookie :( 21:38:17 Gregor: HackEgo THE BROKEN 21:39:23 kmc: well what is it 21:39:34 some pulseaudio bullshit 21:39:36 either that or a rootkit 21:40:40 oh hey i have it too 21:41:24 it is an "authentication cookie" 21:42:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:42:42 an authentic cookie 21:48:51 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 21:49:59 -!- asiekierka has joined. 21:53:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:53:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:53:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:01:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:02:33 `run cat `which help` 22:03:34 `ls bin 22:03:38 hell is anything working 22:03:55 `help is not inside the sandbox, but then neither is `revert or `fetch 22:04:14 abs =: + ` - @. (< & 0) 22:05:13 that seems overcomplicated 22:05:20 don't you have the sign function? 22:05:56 oerjan: `help /could/ be inside the sandbox, so I was trying to determine whether it was or not 22:05:59 ^show help 22:05:59 (^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool)S 22:06:01 There probably is, but I just took that definition from the book 22:06:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:07:07 imo just :sign dup sgn *; 22:07:29 abs =: * * ] 22:07:35 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:07:45 er :abs 22:07:52 whatever, i don't actually know forth 22:08:45 Actually, don't need a fork, I can do the other thing 22:08:48 abs =: * * 22:09:15 what's * 22:09:25 As a monad it's signum 22:09:33 As a dyad it's multiplication 22:09:37 beautiful. 22:11:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:11:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:11:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:34:49 What is it as a quadrad? 22:36:48 good question 22:45:41 I have idea of a small header NSF variant, which may be used when storing the music in a SQLite database used with some game, for example. It is fourteen bytes, consisting of the bankswitches, load, init, play. The high four bits of the load address are used to control the VRC6, VRC7, FDS, and Sunsoft-5B expansions (the MMC5 and Namco-163 are always enabled). 22:49:09 mean =. +/ % # 22:49:16 How can that be written in pointfree Haskell? 22:49:37 what sort of stuff are you allowing 22:49:52 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:50:02 @pl mean =. +/ % # 22:50:02 (line 1, column 9): 22:50:02 unexpected "+" 22:50:02 expecting space or simple term 22:50:17 If the blob length is exactly twelve bytes, then it is instead a 64-bit rowid of the actual NSF data, followed by the A, X, Y, and flags. X must be zero or one, and this is also used to control NTSC/PAL. (For the format described above, A and X are zero, and the Y and flags are undefined.) 22:50:47 > sum [1, 2, 3] 22:50:49 6 22:51:06 @pl (\arg -> (sum arg)/(length arg)) 22:51:06 liftM2 (/) sum length 22:51:08 > (/) <$> sum <*> genericLength $ [1,2,3] 22:51:10 2.0 22:51:57 hm 22:53:25 :t <$> 22:53:26 parse error on input `<$>' 22:53:31 :t (<$>) 22:53:32 Not quite like the J version though. +/ is Haskell sum, but it's not primitive, / is sort of like a fold 22:53:32 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 22:53:50 (Also the J version has that whole built-in mapping thing going) 22:54:30 i imagine sum is defined as foldr (+) or whatever 22:54:40 sooooo pretty well the same 22:54:51 foldl (+) 0 22:54:59 close enough 22:55:24 I don't entirely understand how / knows what identity to use 22:55:35 operations encode their identity in J 22:55:38 also their inverse 22:55:41 except when they don't 22:55:51 isnt the term something like "obverse" 22:56:01 yeah 22:56:07 I had to look that up how do you know that 22:56:18 memory for silly things like that 22:56:20 been starin' at too many coins 22:56:23 now I'm looking at the J vocabulary again and remembering how beautiful a language it is 22:58:48 elliott, is it your fault for getting me into Factor and J with some comment somewhere about how they're your favorite languages but annoyingly ungoogleable? 22:58:58 um 22:59:01 I don't know 22:59:19 monqy: have you written any cute J programs. I love cute J programs 22:59:27 i dont think so? 22:59:50 :( 22:59:52 im disappointed 23:00:03 maybe i should write a roguelike in j 23:00:10 (haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah) 23:00:32 imo yes 23:00:46 Sgeo: btw there are aliases for the magic numbers foreign uses in the J library 23:00:49 fyi 23:01:00 Oh, cool 23:01:13 What about other magic numbers, like the Extract Gerund thingy? 23:01:44 dunno 23:01:48 you can poke around the code and see 23:05:07 Write a roguelike in RogueVM. 23:05:37 write a J->RogueVM compiler 23:07:22 "The result of 0: is a boolean 0 ; previously it was an integer 0 . Likewise 1: ." 23:07:36 I ... what's the difference? Internal representation? 23:08:32 Bike: You can try if you want to. 23:10:22 maybe it has types 23:11:36 also when i google "j language dictionary" i get a karen-english dictionary. what does this mean 23:13:10 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: dead). 23:14:47 anna j karenina 23:17:13 -!- Bike has joined. 23:18:54 -!- evincar has joined. 23:30:05 -!- Cryovat has quit (Quit: BOOM). 23:31:54 woah people are talking about J 23:32:18 I blame Bike for reminding me about J. 23:32:36 i already denied responsibility 23:32:55 it's too late 23:33:23 no i did it yesterday 23:33:26 opposite of late 23:33:40 kmc: I hope you like J!!! 23:33:44 Actually, it's also a little Gilad Bracha's fault. In a talk about mirrors, he briefly mentioned APL as a language that has a lot of ... metaprogrammingness. APL makes me think J. 23:33:50 oerjan: what does it mean that I read that as anna j ketamine 23:33:51 am I kmc 23:34:05 Sgeo: wow you still listen to things gilad bracha says... 23:35:20 elliott: possibly 23:38:11 nooga is someone we know, aren't they? 23:38:24 no 23:39:14 Looks like yes. 23:41:28 who's nooga 23:42:43 no oga here 23:43:02 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:55:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:55:59 -!- DH____ has joined. 2013-01-28: 00:05:12 http://zem.fi/esostats/people_summary.html PLOOOOTS (also beta) 00:10:36 i'm pretty sure my activity level spikes iff interest in bfjoust spikes 00:10:49 but thanks fizzie you're the best 00:14:06 quintopia: mine probably falls, as I spend more time thinking BF Joust and less talking on IRC 00:15:01 ais523: your baseline activity level is higher than mine i think 00:15:21 yes 00:15:42 yeah definitely 00:16:06 so 00:16:23 bfjoust spikes are the one time i am more activious than you 00:16:41 (activious is now a word) 00:21:05 I like the chart for optbot. 00:21:30 oh i just realized "ploooots" was supposed to be the plural of "plot" 00:21:37 and not a bunch of ploots (what's a ploot) 00:22:32 fizzie: I'm still not merged with zuff!! 00:22:57 I like how it doesn't say what the colours are 00:23:38 fax, j-invariant and soupdragon are all separate too 00:23:46 It's still not recalculated. And the colours are obviously obvious. 00:24:02 i don't know what the colours mean !!! 00:24:20 Blue is the overall activity, and red is the selected nick. 00:24:26 thanxe 00:24:55 why does it show me as not being active in 2007 at all 00:24:58 wow elliott has ungodly huge activity 00:25:24 so what happened on those two massive 6000+ spikes 00:25:32 elliott: did you use the nick "elliott" ever then? 00:25:37 monqy: iirc i have more than twice the lines said in #esoteric than the second person...... 00:25:41 it's likely a failure in nick merging 00:25:44 ais523: no but it's meant to be merged and stuff 00:25:56 Phantom_Hoover: Which one of those three would be the "canonical" name? 00:25:57 is that when you were using "alise"? 00:26:11 2007 nick was ehird 00:26:12 or was it ehird` 00:26:18 no, it wasn't 00:26:21 it was ehird and then maybe a ` 00:26:23 "alise" was 2010 00:26:23 yes it was 00:26:26 oh 00:26:30 sorry, context fail 00:26:30 ais523: 'elliott': ['elliott', 'ehird', 'alise', 'tusho', 'aliseiphone', 'ehirdiphone', 'zuff'], 00:26:31 not disagreement 00:26:35 elliott: aha 00:26:40 *fizzie: aha 00:26:43 fizzie: well it's still in that menu at least 00:26:47 anyway you need ehird` in there SORRY 00:26:47 fizzie: 'ehird`' is the nick you're missing 00:26:54 elliott: Yes, it's old datta. 00:26:57 also um 00:26:59 estoppel 00:27:01 Phantom_Hoover: Which one of those three would be the "canonical" name? 00:27:02 and a handful of others 00:27:05 go with fax, it was first 00:27:07 you didn't use estoppel very much 00:27:11 fizzie: what list do you have for me? 00:27:15 imo leave fax separated so you don't have to deal with the mess of who is fax or not 00:27:24 `seen2 estoppel 00:27:38 ais523: It was supposed to remove all trailing non-alphanumerics, but maybe it didn't. 00:27:53 but ais523 and ais523_ are different computers! 00:28:07 and as a result, may talk about different topics 00:28:09 how about alphanumerics in the middle 00:28:18 ais523_ is substantially more likely than me to bitch about Java, for instance 00:28:19 i mean 00:28:20 non-alphanums 00:28:22 You're also missing "shachaf". 00:28:28 cf phantom____________________________________hoover 00:28:29 "elliott's gr8st pseudonym" 00:28:48 ais523: For you I just have "ais523" and "ais523\unfoog". I made these by getting a top-100 list of overall activity. 00:28:48 monqy: uve been shachaffed!! 00:28:53 monqy: i thought it was a "joek" 00:29:06 monqy: I have _, __ and ___ manually listed for that. 00:29:06 fizzie: "scarf", "callforjudgement" 00:29:22 fizzie: but think about how phantom____hoover feels 00:29:29 ais523: I see "scarf" ended up on the list, too. 00:29:32 also "this", though I don't have it registered 00:29:39 and only use it for the purpose of trolling myself 00:30:41 ais523 is a silly thing to do. 00:31:10 * ais523 sort of thing is more legible when it starts "this" not "ais523" 00:34:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:54:09 kmc: Are you the "turn in crypto challenges in asm" person? 01:10:17 yes 01:41:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:29:32 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:32:05 -!- Nisstyre_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:35:35 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:36:47 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:45:15 Wait, I just realized something. 02:45:20 Mirrors are Turing-complete, aren't they? 02:45:40 Like, you can store an arbitrary amount of accessible information in the position of a beam of light. 02:47:43 In particular, if you consider a beam of light to have x and y coordinates (and it's traveling in the z direction), you can use mirrors to perform scaling and translation on x and y, as well as conditionals. 02:48:08 Yes I can understand now how you mean. 02:48:14 is this a billiard ball computer? 02:48:40 Nope. There's just a single "ball"; it doesn't interact with other moving objects. 02:48:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:49:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:49:36 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 02:49:45 The ball just moves in a constant direction until it hits a mirror, at which point it bounces off and continues moving in the appropriate new direction. 02:50:05 If your space is three-dimensional, this configuration is Turing-complete. 02:50:25 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:51:25 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:51:28 Of course, this wouldn't work in the real world, for many reasons, one of which is that real light diffracts. 02:52:05 What if you use an electron instead? I guess electrons also diffract. 02:52:46 all objects diffract, in principle 02:52:54 i feel like i should say something about heisenberg but then i'd be pretending to know quantum physics, which i do not 02:53:08 Bike: whoa hw man thats so QUNAutm 02:53:12 s/$/ / 02:53:26 Yeah, I think Heisenberg's principle applies here. A photon does not have one distinct position. 02:53:36 Quantum? I don't even know 'em! 02:54:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:56:14 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:57:10 elliott, why is *: defined when *~ is the same thing? 02:57:28 (at least monadic *: ) 02:58:08 does *~ have the inverse that *: does 02:58:20 the real answer is that i don't know tho 02:58:26 try #jsoftware 02:59:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:02:28 *~ is the 'reflexive' of * (~ being the 'reflex' adverb); i can't recall how that interacts with obverses 03:03:46 ahh, the obverse of *~ is specially specified to be %: 03:03:57 i.e. sqrt i.e. same as the obverse of *: 03:04:19 tswett: you've reminded me of the optical computer for solving traveling salesman problem 03:04:45 you have a bunch of beamsplitters and you connect them with optical fibers whose lengths correspond to the distances between cities 03:04:53 then you use interferometry (somehow) to find the shortest path 03:07:16 I like that (somehow) 03:07:30 hm, what's a good academic who does weird-ass computation stuff 03:07:43 i checked for adamatzky doing things like this but he's too busy getting stoned on BZ 03:08:36 getting stoned on BZ is a bad idea 03:08:54 no the other BZ 03:09:04 the one it's a good idea to get stoned on 03:09:05 so not the chemical weapon 03:09:25 no, although i've heard apparently people have tried to use that recreationally... 03:09:30 i mean the clock reaction 03:09:43 i don't know what that is 03:10:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belousov-Zhabotinsky_reaction 03:10:15 observe: pretty colors! 03:10:16 oh those are neat 03:10:31 http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.1344 so, adamatzky does things like this with 'em 03:10:42 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/The_Belousov-Zhabotinsky_Reaction.gif 03:10:56 cool 03:11:41 also a clock reaction is just a reaction that does something periodic, so you could use it as a clock if you wanted your clock to be made of acids. 03:12:00 anyway so not tswett lightmachines 03:12:13 oh i heard about this slime mould computer too 03:12:59 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:13:05 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:13:12 oh, there's a journal or something called "unconventional computing", that's more like it! 03:14:09 "The denizens of Carlisle, meanwhile, may wonder what objection slime moulds have towards their fine city." 03:14:12 'Abstract Geometrical Computation 6: A Reversible, Conservative and Rational Based Model for Black Hole Computation' i think i'm going to be distracted 03:16:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:16:15 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:18:39 if you drop a supermassive computer into a rotating black hole while traveling at the speed of light then you meet god and can just ask him to solve your dumb problem 03:22:04 `addquote if you drop a supermassive computer into a rotating black hole while traveling at the speed of light then you meet god and can just ask him to solve your dumb problem 03:23:56 i have hackego withdrawal 03:24:26 kmc: "O father who art in heaven, I really need to win this CTF" 03:27:36 'Can a Computer be “Pushed” to Perform Faster-Than-Light?' i love how far out these questions are 03:27:55 "Let us assume that Alice, Bob, and Charlie, the three classical people of cryptography are not limited anymore to perform a finite number of computations on real computers, but are limited to α computations and to α bits of memory, where α is a fixed infinite cardinal." 03:27:59 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:28:57 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:29:04 lucky them 03:29:26 good assumption i think 03:29:53 Oh, hey, I think this one is actually vaguely sort of near what tswett was saying. 03:29:56 «We propose to “boost” the speed of communication and computation by immersing the computing environment into a medium whose index of refraction is smaller than one, thereby trespassing the speed-of-light barrier.» 03:32:07 you can have fairly mundane materials whose index of refraction is less than one 03:32:21 because IoR is defined according to the phase velocity 03:32:31 but this doesn't imply superluminal transfer of information 03:32:37 want the paper? 03:32:41 no 03:32:44 thanks 03:32:57 heh 03:34:48 heegan 03:34:52 how are the monoids today 03:35:32 summertime and the monoids are easy 03:36:09 i downgraded my old laptop from a SSD to a spinny disk 03:36:21 Why? 03:36:21 have to remember not to throw that one at sofas anymore 03:36:28 so that i can give the SSD to a friend 03:36:28 To put the SSD elsewhere? 03:36:30 yes 03:41:11 -!- Nisstyre_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:42:30 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 03:46:58 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:51:00 -!- glogbackup has joined. 03:55:35 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:03:21 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:14:18 kmc: Did you read _Cat's Cradle_? 04:14:50 vonnegut? 04:15:21 Vonnegut time? 04:15:22 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:17:26 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 04:20:36 no 04:21:06 You should read it! 04:21:14 ok 04:24:45 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:26:48 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 04:40:34 City on fire! / Rats in the grass / And the lunatics yelling in the streets! / It's the end of the world! Yes! 04:41:01 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 04:41:19 aren't there always rats 04:41:53 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:42:01 -!- Nisstyre_ has changed nick to Nisstyre. 04:44:51 Hmm. J seems like it might be a reasonable language to implement Befunge-98 in 04:46:33 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:46:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 05:02:02 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:14:31 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:15:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:17:19 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:27:29 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 05:37:44 kmc: By the way, you know ho CoYoneda IORef gives you a "read-only IORef" that can't do any other effects? 05:37:50 As opposed to "IO a" 05:38:15 That can either be a good thing or a bad thing. 05:38:28 Is APL more readable than J? 05:38:42 And how do they both compare to Clojure? 05:39:12 "Is APL more readable than J" should be the PLT version of "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin". 05:40:12 are monoids more lovable than categories 05:40:13 imo yes 05:40:46 how long until you get tired of this beaky thing 05:41:13 monqy: how long until you get tired of the "monqy style" 05:41:32 what's that 05:41:52 a thing 05:41:53 imo monoids 05:41:54 imonoids 05:45:01 monoids mo problems 05:45:51 monoids mo annoyed 05:52:45 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:59:37 -!- quintopia has joined. 06:21:59 the noid ruins pizzas 06:24:10 I crashed someone's Haskell bot with a GHC type system bug. 06:24:17 By crashed I mean unsafePerformIO-then-segfault 06:24:18 congratulations 06:24:29 monqy: thx 06:24:32 you should own their computer 06:24:46 Instead of that I told them about -dcore-lint. 06:25:55 chmod +s /usr/bin/ghc 06:25:56 'On January 30, 1989, Kenneth Lamar Noid, a mentally ill customer who thought the ads were a personal attack on him, held two employees of an Atlanta, Georgia, Domino's restaurant hostage for over five hours.' 06:26:07 :( 06:26:17 -dcore-lint is like a condom for your haskell bot 06:28:08 it's pretty easy to go from unsafePerformIO to an arbitrary memory read/write yeah? 06:28:12 er 06:28:14 unsafeCoerce 06:31:14 I just crashed it again! 06:31:20 This time by defining a custom Typeable instance. 06:31:25 He should probably turn on SafeHaskell 06:31:27 Is this with -dcore-lint? 06:31:32 Yes. 06:31:35 neat. 06:31:40 But this is a know thing. 06:31:46 read :: Word64 -> Word64; word addr = fromJust (unsafeCoerce (addr - 8) :: Maybe Int) 06:31:46 A know thing? 06:31:49 or something? 06:32:14 Well, you can run arbitrary IO easily. 06:32:21 how's that? 06:32:21 But I guess all the Foreign functions might not be in scope. 06:32:29 right 06:32:47 IO a = State# RealWord -> (# State# RealWorld, a #) 06:32:50 you run IO by unsafeCoercing to something operationally isomorphic to... yeah 06:32:59 So you can cast to () -> () or something. 06:33:06 that's tricky though because State# t has a weird STG-type 06:33:10 Right. 06:33:15 but it probably works out 06:33:20 I managed to run IO both times so far, but I segfaulted it too. 06:33:29 Or actually illegal-instructioned it. 06:33:33 woo 06:33:37 I guess it tried to evaluate the () and jumped to some invalid code. 06:33:54 so how would you do a memory write, assuming Foreign stuff isn't in scope? 06:34:01 Hmm. 06:34:20 That seems tricky, actually. 06:34:37 Well, you can probably jump to arbitrary code? 06:34:59 That doesn't necessarily help you that much. 06:35:46 does GHC's allocator set page permissions? you might be able to just create a ByteString and then jump into it 06:36:24 I think pages should be nonexecutable by default? 06:36:31 mauke has a "hello world" that works that way. 06:36:37 But it's for 32-bit x86 06:37:20 ok 06:37:44 GHC only sets page permissions explicitly for foreign import wrapper, as far as I know. 06:38:41 hm I didn't have to do anything with page permissions for http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/09/executing-bytestring.html 06:39:01 Huh. 06:39:07 Well, it just allocates bytestrings with malloc. 06:39:47 Huh, it works. 06:40:54 Maybe it has to do with the FFI? 06:41:14 * shachaf straces 06:41:35 did you get a PoC executing bytestring using only unsafeCoerce? 06:41:46 Hmm. Apparently any single-line pointful verb definition can be converted into pointfree 06:41:47 in J 06:42:00 Are there expressions that @pl cannot convert in Haskell> 06:42:06 can we have a poll to decide what the next Sgeolang is? 06:42:19 No. 06:42:24 It might not be as easy as I said. 06:42:25 Does J really count as a current Sgeolang? 06:43:10 I vote Sgeolang. 06:43:25 shachaf: I guess you would use a second ByteString to build a fake heap object, whose first word points to the code you want to execute 06:44:04 then you get the address of that bytestring into a constructor field and force it 06:44:19 kmc: Oh. 06:44:24 I bet the ByteString is allocated statically? 06:44:29 Wait, maybe not. 06:47:42 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 06:49:21 7ffff6e00000-7ffff6f00000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 06:49:26 I guess it does allocate w+x memory 06:49:52 good times 06:52:01 rwxp 06:52:11 the p is for profit 06:52:13 "Um cool" 06:53:19 Now they turned on SafeHaskell but also left GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving on. 06:53:24 So I can still write unsafeCoerce. :-( 06:53:25 :( 06:53:27 SafeHaskell is hard. 06:53:48 You should just root their system and fix it properly. 06:57:34 whoisthey 06:57:49 I don't see it allocating any w+x memory in strace 06:57:50 Beaky. 06:58:13 for real? haha 06:58:22 ? 06:58:25 No, this isn't beaky 06:58:27 oh 06:58:33 Bike is making things up. 06:58:34 It's beaky in my shachaf fanfiction. 06:58:46 Please don't tell me about shachaf fanfiction. 06:58:56 You can write whatever you want, just don't tell me about it. 06:58:58 It's titled "Coercion Ain't Easy" 06:59:13 i love monoids 06:59:19 You like BDSM, right? 07:04:54 I prefer SDSM. 07:05:39 ...is that even legal nowadays? 07:06:04 I like my SDSM blessed greased 07:06:16 I'm sure Jafet can empathize. 07:06:30 tch, I bet you use scrolls of genocide too. 07:09:30 shachaf's gaze penetrated through the slits of the balustrade, as the excited crowd of algebra neophytes struggled to grab the professor by any wrinkled limb or lineament they could find. Here, he knew, was a master of the group action. 07:12:49 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:13:42 … 07:13:53 I think that went well. 07:19:28 kmc: 7fff5a4ea000-7fff5a50b000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 [stack] 07:19:41 I don't quite see what's going on. :-( 07:20:21 Maybe it's the ELF file somehow? 07:21:15 [stack] 07:21:19 Right. 07:21:27 I doubt it's remapping the stack. 07:21:48 yeah the file may set initial permissions for the stack 07:22:06 It's not just the stack, though. 07:22:27 7eff280e9000-7eff28269000 r-xp 00000000 08:03 1448930 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so 07:22:35 Er. 07:22:39 That's not w, sorry. 07:22:49 7eff28f90000-7eff28f91000 rwxp 00020000 08:03 1452451 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.13.so 07:22:56 7eff28d68000-7eff28d70000 rwxp 00067000 08:03 658337 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgmp.so.10.0.5 07:24:44 How do I figure this out from the ELF file? 07:24:48 GNU_STACK 0x0000000000000000 0x0000000000000000 0x0000000000000000 07:24:48 0x0000000000000000 0x0000000000000000 RWE 8 07:26:05 it should be documented somewhere, maybe the linker option to set the stack non/executable says how it does it 07:26:52 I'm looking at the flags GHC linked with. 07:28:22 Hmm. 07:28:35 Apparently GHC has some code to mark the stack non-executable. 08:01:22 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 08:02:07 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:02:16 -!- Nisstyre_ has changed nick to Nisstyre. 08:02:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:06:53 ) 0 = 1 o. o. 2 * i. 5 08:06:53 Sgeo: 1 0 0 0 0 08:06:54 :/ 08:10:35 * for signum actually obeys tolerance rules, hmm 08:10:45 ) * 1 o. o. 2 * i. 5 08:10:46 Sgeo: 0 0 0 0 0 08:15:52 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:24:37 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:29:51 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 08:33:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:01:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:01:38 -!- carado has joined. 09:24:32 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:31:45 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:35:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:37:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:38:50 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:51:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:51:54 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: bye). 09:56:04 `list 09:56:31 'list 09:58:36 HackEgo? 09:58:46 `cat bin/list 09:58:49 `quote 09:58:51 `asjdflasjdfk 10:04:29 *sigh* 10:04:54 GREGOR! 10:05:02 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:05:09 atriq Taneb I forget Fiora someone someonelese 10:12:23 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:14:09 You should put that thing in fungot, that's clearly the most stable bot available. 10:14:09 fizzie: i mean... what if it gets a 87% grade when i found a solution to the problem 10:15:44 ^def list ul (Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot)S 10:15:44 Defined. 10:15:52 ^list 10:15:52 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 10:16:02 ty 10:16:09 ^save 10:16:10 OK. 10:21:49 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:43:55 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:55:47 -!- azaq23 has joined. 10:55:56 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 10:56:27 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:11:44 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:15:20 -!- glogbackup has joined. 11:20:05 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:23:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:24:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:49:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:53:35 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:08:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:09:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:12:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:15:46 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:17:06 `echo hi 12:17:42 ^echo ^echo 12:17:42 ^echo ^echo 12:17:47 hello oerjan 12:17:48 welcome 12:18:16 good afternoon shachaf 12:18:38 Not hardly! 12:18:40 @localtime 12:18:43 Local time for shachaf is Mon Jan 28 04:18:40 2013 12:21:03 ha ha you people keep faking that timezone thing 12:22:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:24:30 "^echo ^echo" is the best quine in the fungot-^echo-language. 12:24:30 fizzie: you can tell 12:24:48 fungot: hi 12:24:48 shachaf: then one could write ( loop-safety on) or ( x ( get-value) block) will expand to the same event at the same time 12:25:51 (DECLAIM '(OPTIMIZE (LOOP-SAFETY ON))) 12:25:55 sadly it's also the _only_ quine, i think. 12:26:11 @localtime fungot 12:26:11 fizzie: there are a bazillion definitions per item with no discernable purpose and reside in a different order 12:26:30 x ++ x == "^echo " ++ x doesn't have a lot of solutions 12:26:32 Local time for fungot is ITS NOT A FAKE 12:26:59 um 12:27:08 * x ++ " " ++ x == "^echo " ++ x doesn't have a lot of solutions 12:27:44 oerjan: Do empty programs count? 12:27:52 ^echo 12:27:53 12:27:55 no. 12:27:59 That's not an empty program. 12:28:01 It's ^echo 12:28:17 shachaf: he said "in the fungot-^echo-language" 12:28:18 oerjan: ais523 suggested it x-p you win!!! eheheheeheh trying to find a way to see where one can look at the number of 12:28:46 Do all programs in that language start with ^echo? 12:28:51 In that case I guess it's the only quine. 12:29:08 They all do start with "^echo ". 12:30:08 ^echo 12:30:08 12:30:14 That's not a ^echo-program? 12:32:21 ^show echo 12:32:21 >,[.>,]<[<]+32[.>] 12:32:50 Hrm, for some reason I confused ^echo with one of the commands where the space is mandatory. 12:33:39 i think the space is handled by fungot's pre-bf parsing 12:33:39 oerjan: remembered. i'll tell riastradh when he/ she 12:34:03 the one on input, that is 12:34:27 Yes, it's only the fixed commands that sometimes check also that there is a space. 12:34:32 i love fungot 12:34:32 shachaf: like calories. a 12:34:36 so ^command is equivalent to ^command 12:34:36 fungot is so easy 12:34:36 shachaf: actually i'll probably change and to and, although it would eventually segfault. 12:35:00 only fungot can make a segfault by changing and to and 12:35:00 oerjan: whichever is closer to most module systems, is it 12:36:59 Everyone loves fungot like calories. 12:36:59 fizzie: i have to, as the compiler is correct? maybe the implementations of " reverse" 12:37:22 i love fungot like calories. a 12:37:22 shachaf: thanks. your new nick? hehe ( sometimes i make too long sentenced to avoid being eaten by a grue. 12:37:31 fungot++ 12:37:31 shachaf: ( i think)." 13:00:13 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 13:07:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:22:50 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 13:33:39 Did elliott take my quote out of the topic? 13:33:44 "it was a good run" 13:34:33 i dunno 13:35:22 unless you mean the lambda cube, in which case yes 13:35:35 Six simultaneous rotations of the lambda tesseract 13:35:46 I should go to sleep. 13:40:40 Food for thought: NaNoWriMo requires 50000 words in order for something to qualify as a novel; W|A says average English word length is 5.1 characters; allowing for some whitespace and punctuation, 6.5*50000 = 325000 characters. Compare this with http://zem.fi/esostats/fig/activity_chars_20year.png -- since mid-2008, the channel seems to average around 1-2.5 novels a week. 13:41:40 the plot is horrendous, though 13:42:17 And the characters are, frankly, stupid and unbelievable. 13:42:29 except for fungot and zzo38, they'll obviously go on to start spinoff series 13:42:29 oerjan: wiliki sure looks a lot like the inverse of f(n) a(n,n)? would it run the other schemes will do something with 13:43:35 Also, total characters over all time: 127,714,454 i.e. 393 novels, which again reminds me that I'd like to see the #esoteric bookshelf as a physical thing. 13:44:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:44:42 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:45:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:56:07 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:56:34 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:19:04 fizzie: is #esoteric bookshelf just printed logs of #esoteric 14:20:17 Yes. Well, not just "printed", but bound to something for which the word "tome" is appropriate. 14:20:43 Possibly also "copied by a cloisterful of monks" as opposed to "printed". 14:22:43 i guess illumination is mandatory as well. 14:23:30 fizzie: well here I was considering giving Lulu a bunch of money to make that dream a reality 14:23:33 I WON'T BOTHER NOW 14:23:40 http://www.flickr.com/photos/darrellg/6822994478/ I mean something like this maybe? 14:24:49 I nominate fizzie to be the monk. 14:25:33 but who would be the monq 14:25:39 btw why am i awake 14:25:42 Good night! 14:25:49 May all your monoids be easy! 14:31:10 -!- boily has joined. 14:45:13 Is the monq monqy? 14:46:27 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 14:47:00 -!- augur has joined. 14:54:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:18:57 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:24:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:44:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:00:20 -!- glogbackup has joined. 16:02:45 -!- ais523_ has joined. 16:17:11 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:44:48 "In 2007, Niven, in conjunction with a group of science fiction writers known as SIGMA, led by Pournelle, began advising the U.S. Department of Homeland Security as to future trends affecting terror policy and other topics.[8] One of his suggestions as a member of SIGMA was that hospitals stem financial losses by spreading rumors in Spanish within the Latino community that emergency rooms are killing patients in order to 16:44:48 harvest their organs for transplants, in order to reduce illegal immigrants' use of emergency rooms.[9]" 16:44:53 larry niven..................................................... 16:45:12 Phantom_Hoover: yikes 16:45:30 that's another sci-fi author on the crazy list 16:46:55 -!- desty has joined. 16:47:00 According to author Michael Moorcock, in 1967 Niven was among those Science Fiction Writers of America members who voiced opposition to the Vietnam War.[5] However, in 1968 Niven's name appeared in a pro-war ad in Galaxy Science Fiction magazine.[6] 16:47:04 Niven was an adviser to Ronald Reagan on the creation of the Strategic Defense Initiative anti missile policy, as covered in the BBC documentary Pandora's Box by Adam Curtis.[7] 16:47:11 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 16:48:16 maybe he got sick of the government asking him to join in with their idiotic initiatives and decided to take the piss 16:48:23 (hahahaha) 17:06:17 That sounds like him. 17:10:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:10:44 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:27:03 Wow, I just rage-parted a channel 17:27:05 That's a first 17:27:55 raaaaaaaage 17:28:02 Rage against the channel. 17:28:50 PARTING IN THE NAME OF *riff* 17:29:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:30:44 There were two people who differed on opinions regarding GNU very loudly 17:32:46 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away. 17:37:40 http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_brainfuck.html it's probably partially BFJoust days? 17:41:49 fizzie: then do a search for "bfjoust" and overlay it 17:45:00 There are so many possible THINGS. But I suppose I'll add a straight-forward keyword-frequency thing similar to those charfreq things. Though I don't know what else than "bfjoust" to include. 17:45:22 that should be enough 17:45:46 case insensitive "bfjoust" should catch just about every day that it was discussed 17:46:13 Yes, but, I mean, maybe there are other things in the world in addition to bfjoust too. 17:46:27 I suppose I can run some kind of a TF-IDF keyword extraction on my dataset, though. 17:50:58 fizzie, augur and psygnisfive are the same. 17:51:15 OIC. 17:51:29 oh hi 17:51:56 I'd rerun the people-statistics bit, but my computar is so noisy when it's doing things. :/ 17:52:04 who was talking about other me? 17:52:24 The other you ended up in my list of "important" people for some plots plots plots. 17:53:14 is the list of important people the set of all people who posted more than x times in this channel? 17:53:32 Yes. 17:53:49 Where 'x' was somewhere between two and three thousand. 17:53:56 Phantom_Hoover: where did fizzie mention my other username? :| 17:54:06 It's in the charts. 17:54:09 o 17:54:26 where 17:54:36 http://zem.fi/esostats/ "individual activity charts" 17:55:07 oookay... 17:55:42 oic 17:56:01 They will be merged after the next recomputamation. 17:57:23 ive been pretty inactive in here lately 18:04:38 meh. I'm not important yet. 18:05:52 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:06:28 boily: then chat more! 18:08:28 boily: You've been made important for the next run. (But you should indeed chat more; your linecount in my logs is just 505.) 18:09:02 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 18:09:36 I need to chat more indeed. 18:09:56 boily: are you france 18:09:56 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:10:25 quintopia: nope. still canadaing, even if I think its existence hasn't been yet formalized, let alone proved. 18:10:43 lets all go to canada and chat boily 18:10:43 I wonder who's the nearest member from me in this channel. 18:10:56 zzo38 is west coast canadia 18:11:09 what province? 18:11:14 montréal, québec. 18:11:23 hmm. i'm gonna gues sgeo 18:11:29 east coast US? 18:11:31 sgeo is new york 18:11:38 Indiana 18:11:38 definitely nearer. 18:11:51 BC is like 5000 km away from me. 18:12:21 say, does anyone here have experience with OpenGL ES 2.0? 18:12:57 no. i like esolangs, but that one is just too esoteric 18:13:54 -!- surma has joined. 18:16:21 Hey guys, I need a language where every combination of is a valid and executable program. Does anything come to mind? I was thinking of SUBLEQ (or any OISC for that matter), but I was hoping you guys would know something more abstract 18:18:06 it's like that in many genetic programming implementations, where everything must be valid and defined (even if meaningless or NOP in most cases) since the code is generated by random process 18:18:40 so, for example, the PushGP language probably allows any input? 18:19:39 boily: your use of the fake letter "é" proves you must be french 18:24:09 -!- Bike has joined. 18:26:32 surma: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jot is one example. (Every string in [01]* is a valid Jot program.) 18:27:23 elliott: sincé whén is é a faké léttér? 18:30:19 desty: Ha, the genetic programming application slipped my mind. Makes a lot of sense to look there. 18:30:22 Thanks fizzie ! 18:33:12 TF-IDF top-16 terms for 2005-03-05: "brainfuck he bf really org than languages possible name tutorial programming hehe ah how bfasm p" ... and for 2005-03-06: "esoapi pesoix easel h will dialect cpressey api up has they level bos o check switch"; well look at that, it actually does sort of hint as to what was the topic of discussion that day. (Disclaimer: IDF computed over a total of three ... 18:33:18 ... days; larger thing now in progress.) 18:34:39 "brainfuck he bf really org" <- sure it isn't from some S&M chatroom? :P 18:34:46 serendipitous reddit link: http://www.primaryobjects.com/CMS/Article149.aspx 18:35:34 Advantages of Brainf-ck as an AI Programming Language 18:35:40 this is certainly something 18:36:20 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb. 18:36:23 http://blog.bitbucket.org/2013/01/28/signup-to-bitbucket-via-google-or-github/ You can now sign in to BitBucket with your GitHub account. 18:36:57 why are people so obsessed with self-modifying code -> AI... 18:37:40 Aw dagnabbit, I forgot to filter out initial nick-attributions, this whole output is now just mostly list of people who've been talked to -- http://sprunge.us/iTii -- will have to redo. 18:37:45 I see they don't even give any examples of evolving programs to compute a function... just constant output. 18:37:50 from experience, genetic algos are slow, computation intensive, and they don't work. 18:38:01 boily: yes, very slow and inefficient 18:38:07 fizzie: Might want to ignore lines starting with ! and ` too. 18:38:13 Except I guess !bfjoust would be Relevant(tm). 18:38:49 I wrote a genetic programming engine to try to evolve strings of input to vim (for vimgolf)... it was awful :) 18:39:06 Maybe the command names can stay. But people are boring, I'll get rid of them. 18:39:27 "ehird compile cube shit" "sexy ehird bitch" Um, okay. 18:40:01 Hey, that's just what the machine tells me. :p 18:40:25 surma: brainfuck and the uncountably many brainfuck derivatives have that property 18:40:47 most bytes (or is it characters?) are no-ops 18:40:48 kmc: ] is an invalid bf program 18:40:58 < too, under most interpretations 18:41:00 ok fair enough 18:41:48 fizzie: Can you pad every Jot program out to be byte-sized? 18:41:58 Or are there hypothetically functions which can only be expressed as Jot programs of a non-integral number of bytes? 18:44:27 I'm not qualified to tell, but I'd hazard a guess you can always at least pad to some multiple of 8. 18:48:32 http://sprunge.us/aBZV <- nick-attribution-filtered tfidf output. Apparently there's still quite a few nicks, possibly since people in fact mention other people also inside their comments. 18:48:45 2012-12-26's topic: "rape switzerland" 18:55:28 fizzie, does the people one combine Taneb, Ngevd, and atriq? 18:55:45 fizzie: how do you feel to have been in this channel for over a decade 18:58:18 Taneb: It does. 18:58:35 coppro: I don't think I really "get" it. 18:59:05 get what? this channel? 18:59:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:59:59 -!- desty has left ("Leaving"). 19:00:40 The ten years. 19:00:56 'Shipment of 18 human heads found at Chicago's O'Hare airport' 19:01:03 fizzie: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2003-01-19.txt 19:01:07 that was more than 10 years ago 19:01:26 kmc: destined for what? 19:01:46 greatness 19:01:49 coppro: fizzie has been here since before 2003-01-19. 19:02:07 elliott: I know 19:02:11 but that's how far back the logs go 19:02:31 so I dispute your claim and demand evidence otherwise 19:02:33 Actually they go back to http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2003-01-18. But it's interesting that fizzie's private logs that are in the rsync thing aren't in the web interface. 19:02:52 (From 2002.) 19:03:33 http://www.borderagencyscotland.com/ 19:06:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:06:45 greetings 19:06:54 lies 19:09:32 Esolang the movie staring Elijah Wood as Elliott Hird and Viggo Mortensen as rjan Johansen. 19:10:23 +1 19:10:34 coppro, who would play you? 19:10:36 Or me? 19:10:40 Taneb: Andy Serkis obv 19:10:56 I didn't mean to restrict it to LOTR actors 19:11:03 it's all right 19:11:08 you can be played by Anne Hathaway 19:11:11 I think I'd be played by Zachary Quinto 19:12:00 fizzie and oerjan are the olde hats. 19:12:24 Taneb: sorry but we have to get Dijkstra to play oerjan. 19:12:27 It was agreed. 19:12:46 ...isn't he kind of dead? 19:13:00 I DON'T CARE 19:13:03 Not only is he kind of dead, he's entirely dead. 19:13:03 Use necromancy if you have to! 19:13:19 I like necromancy. all those shiny zombies :D 19:14:09 no need for necromancy, you could just prop up his rotten corpse like a puppet 19:14:25 cost effective 19:14:35 today is privacy day 19:14:41 NSA is watching you 19:15:08 AnotherTest, should I... 19:15:17 should I do a song and dance routine or something? 19:15:21 Is this a talent contest? 19:15:31 only if you're prepared to have it uploaded to youtube 19:26:00 Is there any number argument to genericTake, where an input of an infinite list will produce an infinite list 19:28:03 yes 19:28:35 (fix Succ) 19:28:38 if you define inductive natural numbers then you can define ω which is an infinite number 19:29:03 *conatural 19:29:06 as elliott said, ω = Succ ω 19:29:08 elliott: ;P 19:30:11 you could also just define a "numeric" type which is always infinite 19:30:26 well then your fromInteger has to lie 19:30:31 that's fine 19:30:59 not really :P 19:31:07 fuck tha police 19:31:11 do you need a fromInteger in a Numeric type? 19:31:15 @src Num 19:31:15 class (Eq a, Show a) => Num a where 19:31:15 (+), (-), (*) :: a -> a -> a 19:31:15 negate, abs, signum :: a -> a 19:31:15 fromInteger :: Integer -> a 19:31:20 Bike: behold the worst class in the universe 19:31:27 Bike: it gets better though 19:31:29 @src Real 19:31:29 class (Num a, Ord a) => Real a where 19:31:29 toRational :: a -> Rational 19:31:34 that's not better 19:31:38 that's not better at all D: 19:31:38 ponder that for a moment 19:31:59 christ is there any good way to make numbers in programming remotely like they are in math 19:32:03 "no" 19:32:16 abstract algebra is kinda unwieldy to do via typeclasses 19:32:28 where's class Group huh 19:32:31 where's class Monoid 19:32:35 WHERE'S BEAKY 19:32:35 @src Monoid 19:32:36 class Monoid a where 19:32:36 mempty :: a 19:32:36 mappend :: a -> a -> a 19:32:36 mconcat :: [a] -> a 19:32:39 oh, there it is 19:32:40 they are so easy, even typeclasses can do them 19:32:56 still think it's weird that the operation is called "append" 19:33:04 also is mconcat really just there for efficiency 19:33:19 wait... 19:33:21 @src Monad 19:33:22 class Monad m where 19:33:22 (>>=) :: forall a b. m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b 19:33:22 (>>) :: forall a b. m a -> m b -> m b 19:33:22 return :: a -> m a 19:33:22 fail :: String -> m a 19:33:28 mconcat has a default definition, yeah 19:33:42 oh, type classes don't have inheritance or nuthin, do they 19:34:01 they have superclasses 19:34:03 @src Monoid 19:34:04 class Monoid a where 19:34:04 mempty :: a 19:34:04 mappend :: a -> a -> a 19:34:04 mconcat :: [a] -> a 19:34:14 monads aren't monoids! 19:34:18 where are the endofunctors 19:34:20 is my life a lie? 19:34:28 it's all obfuscated 19:34:29 I think the default definition for mconcat is something like foldr mappend mempty 19:34:36 so i would assume 19:35:14 @src Group 19:35:14 Source not found. It can only be attributed to human error. 19:35:18 :( 19:35:26 Bike: class Category cat => Monoid cat unit product mon where mempty :: unit `cat` mon; mappend :: product mon mon `cat` mon 19:35:33 or, with infix syntax that is sadly no longer allowed: 19:35:49 class Category (~>) => Monoid (~>) unit (**) mon where mempty :: unit ~> mon; mappend :: (mon ** mon) ~> mon 19:35:55 THEY GOT RID OF THAT SYNTAX?!? 19:35:57 now if you let (~>) = (->), unit = (), (**) = (,), you get 19:35:58 noooooo 19:36:03 mempty :: () -> mon; mappend :: (mon, mon) -> mon 19:36:05 which is Monoid 19:36:07 whyyyyyyyyyyyy 19:36:14 if you let f ~> g = (forall a. f a -> g a) (<-- natural transformation) 19:36:16 unit = Identity 19:36:24 (**) = functor composition i.e. (f ** g) a = f (g a) 19:36:26 you get 19:36:31 mempty :: Identity a -> mon a 19:36:36 mappend :: mon (mon a) -> mon a 19:36:45 which is a Monad (return and join respectively), if mon is a Functor! 19:36:55 now you actually need to wrap those latter definitions up into data types and stuff to get it work 19:37:03 but with the PolyKinds extension you can actually define a generic Monoid in this way 19:37:10 kmc: that syntax is now used for actual infix types, rather than type variables 19:37:16 sucks 19:37:17 kmc: i.e. you can define data a * b = Product a b or whatever 19:37:20 You know, the full name for football is associative football 19:37:26 Does that mean football can be a monoid? 19:37:29 so close yet so far 19:37:41 Or a semigroup 19:37:43 kmc: not being able to use infix type variables is annoying, but having to prefix infix types with : is arguably worse 19:38:34 Nevermind, it's actually association football 19:39:52 imo football is a magma at best 19:41:21 now i'm picturing a football variant with obstacles in the form of holes filled with molten rock 19:43:39 i'd watch it 19:44:03 http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_brainfuck.html Aw, the word "bfjoust" doesn't correlate all that well with brainfuck characters. (Though that peak in 2009 followed by a longish bump for the rest of the year probably qualifies.) ((Also there are some other terms plotted in the index.)) 19:53:13 http://docs.python.org/3/c-api/init.html#threads kmc, is this part of why you were complaining about pythong threads? 19:54:46 yes the Global Interpreter Lock is one of the problems 19:56:28 I thought GIL just prevents good parallelism but not concurrency? 19:56:52 did anyone say anything to the contrary? 19:57:07 that said I don't think there are provisions for good concurrent I/O either 19:57:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:57:22 despite not supporting parallelism, CPython threads are OS threads and will block in individual system calls 19:57:31 rather than having something like the GHC IO manager 19:57:36 -!- augur has joined. 19:57:44 * Sgeo personally cares about concurrency more than parallelism 19:57:59 Although I guess being OS threads means annoying heavyweight threads 19:58:39 the heaviness of OS threads is also sometimes overstated 19:58:49 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away. 19:59:01 Linux can definitely support a whole lot of threads 19:59:07 it depends on things like how much stack you allocate for each 19:59:31 oh also some of it is carryover from 32-bit days 19:59:52 because even if the actual stack memory is allocated on demand, you need to reserve address space for each stack 20:00:09 which can be a problem when you only have 3GB of address space 20:00:16 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:00:36 * Sgeo is using a 32-bit Linux OS although the machine is 64-bit 20:00:41 64-bit but only has 2GB memory 20:00:47 why 32-bit OS? 20:02:00 Not sure, installed it 2010 I think. I guess I figured since I don't have enough memory to really make 64-bit relevant and since I had the impression that 64-bit OS would be incompatible with stuff 20:02:43 ok well you don't need lots of physical memory to make a 64-bit address space useful 20:03:06 Sgeo: you can make most 32bit programs run on 64bit operating systems 20:03:16 also the AMD64 architecture has lots of improvements over i386 that are unrelated to the word size change 20:03:43 yeah the compatibility story is pretty good these days 20:03:51 you can always install a 32-bit userland in a chroot, but it's rarely necessary 20:04:30 well also if you only have 2 gigs of ram running a 64 bit OS will reduce your effective RAM 20:04:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:04:53 because pointers are twice as big? 20:04:54 that's true 20:05:16 yeah 20:05:17 you could run a 64-bit kernel and a mostly-32-bit userland, but i think that's not generally that worthwhile on x86 20:05:19 and words in general 20:05:34 You could add more RAM! 20:05:35 maybe once x32 is mainstream you would run a 64-bit kernel and a mostly-x32 userland 20:05:45 elliott: well int is still 32 bits 20:05:56 sure 20:06:43 help I need to get my brain fully functional in less than an hour I didn't get enough sleep since I was reading about J and EVE all night 20:06:48 i think having twice as many registers and convenient position-independent code beats the word size increase for many tasks 20:06:54 drugs? drugs 20:08:36 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:11:14 functional position-independent drugs? 20:13:06 32 bit architectures may have killed the idea of memory mapped files :( 20:13:22 like, how many apps have some ad hoc caching layer where they read stuff from disk and keep it in memory for a while? 20:13:28 wouldn't it be great to make the OS do that for you? 20:13:39 kmc: something about @ 20:14:10 i'm not sure the Kids These Days starting as programmers really appreciate what virtual memory can do 20:17:12 * kmc wonders what the mincore() syscall is good for 20:17:32 mroman: Nice brainfuck interpreter you got there. 20:17:49 very nice. 20:19:10 :) 20:19:12 thx. 20:19:26 It made we write a Collatz program :D 20:19:32 *me 20:20:10 I sort of like the language because it allows you to write small programs that do quite a lot 20:20:41 In that way, it reminds me a little bit of zetaplex (and its variants) 20:26:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:28:16 -!- augur has joined. 20:30:44 where's the brainfuck interpreter? 20:31:05 quintopia: nope. still canadaing, even if I think its existence hasn't been yet formalized, let alone proved. <-- someone formalize it, please 20:31:07 ".""X"r~"-""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!-.256.%{vvvv}c!sa\/"r~"+""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!+.256.%{vvvv}c! sa\/"r~"[""{"r~"]""}{\/^^{vvvv}c!!!}w!"r~">""+."r~"<""-."r~"X""\/^^{vvvv}c!!!L[+] \/+]\/+]^^3\/.+1RAp^\/+]\/0RA1RA^^-]\/0RA\/"r~"\'\'1 128r@{vv0}m[0"\/.+pse!vvvv<-sh 20:31:10 there it is 20:31:46 in what language is that? 20:31:52 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burlesque 20:32:12 that explains:) 20:32:54 and burlesque it is 20:32:59 Looks like J. 20:33:08 (Note: Does not actually look like J) 20:34:02 not enought punctuation marks to look like J. 20:34:53 Why is J considered a productive language and Burlesque isn't? 20:35:00 what would constitute a rigorous proof of the existence of canada? 20:35:06 `echo hi 20:35:22 GREGOR! 20:35:30 Gregor: IS BROKEN 20:35:36 Your face is broken. 20:35:57 I'd have to submit a solid sample of a chunk of canada to a comittee. 20:36:16 what does that look like 20:36:17 but then, there's always the possibility that I'd fake that sample. 20:36:19 a broken face 20:37:01 therefore, one of you will have to sacrifice him/her/itself to go to canada, and witness its existence. 20:37:19 you have to express cancada in Zermelo Fraenkel Set theory 20:37:49 darn. I feared that I'd have to do that. can't I just handwave it? 20:38:20 not sure if you need the axion of choice... 20:38:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:39:08 ZFC would do it; Zermelo Fraenkel with the axion of Canada 20:39:23 perhaps there is a consistent formal theory in which canada does not exist! 20:39:44 in which case the axiom of canada is necessary for a consistent theory that includes canada 20:40:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:40:20 let's assume it doesn't exist and see what that implies 20:40:27 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb. 20:41:33 does the non-existence of canada implies provinces and territories don't exist too? 20:42:12 not necessarily. but they will probably be member states of the U.S. 20:42:44 The Yukon: Lone star state of the far northwest. 20:42:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:42:53 or the united states would be member states of canada, but canada would have some other name 20:43:01 such as japan 20:43:03 Such as "The United States of America" 20:43:08 wtf are you people talking about 20:43:17 canada? 20:43:37 the... nonexistence of canada? 20:43:47 the axiomatic independence of canada. 20:43:55 it's a long-standing open problem. 20:45:42 fizzie: Can you pad every Jot program out to be byte-sized? <-- yes, any prefix representing I can be removed, and the article's conversion turns SKS into the 23-bit 11111110001110011111000 (i tried SKK first but that was even length) 20:46:24 why would one want jot to be byte sized? compression? 20:46:52 presumably. 20:47:20 hmm, surely someone must have already made a Brainfuck backend for LLVM? 20:47:22 oerjan: so that means you'd have to add 7 bytes to it that do nothing just to make the encoding work sometimes. so wasteful! 20:48:25 better to just have 1 extra byte that says X if only first X bits of the last byte are part of the jot program 20:48:51 I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes 20:49:09 Hmm, got the quote wrong 20:49:23 s/7 bytes/20 bytes/ 20:49:24 ...actually, I'm not entirely sure what the exact quote is 20:52:22 Maybe I shouldn't have looked up the quote 20:52:30 Spoilers for GitS really 20:52:49 -!- carado has joined. 20:52:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:53:10 I am so nervous 20:53:12 it kinda has become a 'it was its sled', seeing that every other cosplayer has had the spinning face once on their head. 20:53:14 And I didn't eat yet :( 20:53:36 oerjan, how can you remove a prefix representing I without changing the meaning? 20:53:41 boily, well, the logo itself isn't spoilery, but seeing a name associated with it presumably is 20:53:52 indeed. 20:54:08 ...even saying "a name" is spoilery, sorry everyone 20:54:20 (At least I think it's spoilery) 20:54:28 6 MINUTES 20:54:33 * Sgeo is going to go briefly insane 20:54:50 what's in a name? a deaf-mute by any other name would spoiler as much :p 20:55:27 5 minutes 20:55:28 you can remove 1 followed by a rep of I 20:55:29 So nervous 20:55:31 Wish me luck 20:55:40 Although I don't know if it's really an "interview" 20:56:43 don't worry. the worst that can happen is... oh, you mentioned interview. anything is permitted. 20:56:57 tromp: no, you can remove the rep of I itself because the semantics of FG depends on the string G but only on the semantics of F, so if F has the same semantics as the empty string (i.e. I) then [FG] = [G] 20:57:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:57:41 -!- augur has joined. 20:57:59 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:58:21 -!- augur has joined. 20:59:47 the jot page says that [AB] = 1[A][B] 21:00:07 yes, so what you said is also true 21:00:26 oh hm 21:01:43 so code [A] is equivalent to code 1[I][A] 21:02:56 and [I] could be [SKK]=1[SK][K] = 11[S][K][K] 21:03:17 tromp: that's not the _definition_ of Jot though 21:04:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:04:04 no, it's the implied coding rules from CL to jot 21:04:24 argh http://idiom.ucsd.edu/~barker/Iota/ is a 404 _and_ has been a 404 for as long as wayback has archived it D: 21:06:40 oh hm... 21:06:48 that page was redirected 21:07:17 yes, i see you're right too 21:08:57 although it seems inconsistent 21:11:06 it makes one wonder what is the shortest non empty jot program for identity 21:16:49 i think it's 010 21:19:59 no wait, it's simply 1 21:21:36 no, 1 is S(KI) 21:22:29 isn't 1 ^xy. I (xy) ? 21:22:37 the representations on the article page are restricted to starting with 1, btw, because he wanted to have things give direct binary numbers by concatenation 21:23:12 If an interviewer keeps saying "interesting" is that a good thing? 21:23:34 it depends, that is sometimes just a meaningless filler word 21:23:38 it's not good. but it is interesting 21:24:27 help interviewer wants to see code for one of the projects I mentioned on resume. The code is horribly ugly 21:24:45 do you have time to clean it up? 21:24:47 tromp: hm i guess S(KI) = I except that it requires two arguments 21:24:57 kmc, I didn't think to ask for time to clean it up 21:24:59 also what stage is this? phone interview? 21:25:07 Well, phone conversation 21:25:12 Not sure if it counts as an interview 21:25:47 are you ircing while phone conversing 21:26:21 No, I'm off phone 21:26:39 I have IRCed while video chat sexing once 21:26:47 21:27:06 were you ircing here? did you spread cooties in the channel? 21:27:32 ok, so 1 = I only with eta equivalence, but 010 = I regardless, right? 21:28:15 Another channel 21:28:42 * oerjan wonders how that [AB] = 1[A][B] rule can possibly be true 21:28:48 Sgeo: oh, you're still alive! that's interesting! 21:29:01 i was wondering that myself... 21:29:09 i just took it for granted 21:29:34 ....I used bad language in the source code 21:33:03 only in the comments? 21:33:04 public static void longLiveVisualBasicSix() ? 21:33:56 fsck(that,sh*t); ? 21:34:04 tromp, as a variable name for a variable only used in debugging 21:34:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:35:14 must be in the later stages of debugging, after frustration mounted 21:37:59 wait, is tromp a curse 21:40:00 Bike: google translate isn't much of a help on that matter, sadly. 21:40:08 wow another rails vulnerability: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/rubyonrails-security/1h2DR63ViGo 21:40:11 oh 21:40:23 I thought sgeo said ««tromp», as a variable name» 21:40:26 'The JSON Parsing code in Rails 2.3 and 3.0 support multiple parsing backends. One of the backends involves transforming the JSON into YAML" 21:40:45 that sounds like a pretty weird way to parse, uh, anything 21:41:54 kmc: nice 21:43:16 sent the email 21:43:22 :/ 21:45:29 I also mentioned some Haskell code I've written, but not sure if it's appropriate to send it along 21:45:33 (It's about speed dating) 21:45:40 pff 21:49:52 Sgeo: your job interview was about speed dating? 21:50:22 The actually not horrifically ugly code I've written last year was about speed dating 21:50:36 tromp: ah mystery solved. the CL -> Jot conversion satisfies a rather stronger property which makes it work, namely [F[A]] = [F][A] 21:51:38 so it's not enough to plug in an arbitrary Jot program in the 1[A][B] rule, it has to also satisfy that 21:52:26 yes, i realized that [AB] = 1[A][B] failes for even simple cases like A=B=0 21:53:11 and it doesn't help that [] is used in two ways:( 21:53:30 indeed. maybe i should disambiguate them 21:55:01 use {} for encoding function 21:55:14 i already did 21:56:22 not in [F[A]] = [F][A] 21:56:32 of course 21:58:00 i prefer self-delimiting languages :) 21:58:10 like iota 21:58:30 or BLC :) 21:59:13 article changed 21:59:18 or Unlambda :) 22:01:22 You know what would be cool? A readable J 22:01:29 did anyone write a brainfuck interpreter in Unlambda? 22:02:21 well i didn't, although i've pondered it a bit. 22:02:38 j is perfectly readable 22:02:48 it has the usual "needs a complete character table to convert I/O" annoyance 22:03:19 which showed up in my unlambda in unlambda 22:03:47 elliott: readable, yes. its understandability still remains a completely different matter. 22:04:24 http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/interpreter.unl 22:05:00 * Sgeo just made his first commit in years to PSOX 22:05:21 http://trac.assembla.com/psox/changeset/98 22:06:06 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:06:08 to make J more readable, just expand the single letter names according to http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm 22:06:45 it has 3 operators devoted to taylor series alone:( 22:07:36 why is that a :(? 22:07:59 actually it has 1 and 2-char operators 22:08:01 oh dang they have hypergeometric functions in the base, huh 22:08:02 tromp: 3 operators for taylor series? that's completely insane! and lovable! 22:08:29 " 22:08:31 u T. n is the n-term Taylor approximation to the function u . " i love it 22:09:17 wow, automatic differentiation too 22:09:51 Wait, it has automatic differentiation? 22:09:57 I thought it only had numeric and symbolic 22:10:05 the only thing missing is the Kitchen Sink operator 22:10:13 tromp, that's !: 22:10:27 I'm just looking at http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/ddcapdot.htm 22:10:37 only for polynomials and their inverses by default 22:10:38 (Well, ok, that's Foreign, not Kitchen Sink) 22:10:47 But it's for all the other stuff like file access 22:10:49 i want a domestic kitchen sink 22:11:09 er, polynomials plus exp, i guess 22:11:41 Evoke Gerund sounds like a powerful spell 22:11:49 jesus it has exponential generating functions 22:13:15 the big question is: why do many alphabet letter go unused? 22:13:27 imo needs more coptic 22:16:34 tromp: hm {SK} = 10 satisfies the conversion property 22:22:01 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 22:25:07 ah of course, you can read things like a stack language from the right. 0 pushes S and K, 1 pops two elements combining them into one. when you have one element on the stack, the program you used to get there is a conversion to that element. 22:25:58 0 -- S K, 10 -- (SK) 22:26:32 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 22:26:52 00 -- S K S K, 11100 -- SKSK = K 22:27:26 000 -- S K S K S K, 11111000 -- SKSKSK = KSK = S 22:28:11 looked at that way, it's not that mysterious how to find representations. 22:30:39 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 22:30:39 tromp: oh and it means that {11010} = SK(SK) = I 22:32:04 as a conversion which can be used in the conversion rule 22:34:06 this is probably a context-free language of some sort, similar to parenthesis matching. actually translating 1 = ( and 0 = )) and then adding one more ( to the left turns it into an actual parenthesis matching problem 22:38:34 ok it must be CF since this can be trivially seen to be recognizable with a pushdown automaton 22:45:38 :t genericTake 22:45:39 Integral i => i -> [a] -> [a] 22:46:52 @src Integral 22:46:52 class (Real a, Enum a) => Integral a where 22:46:52 quot, rem, div, mod :: a -> a -> a 22:46:52 quotRem, divMod :: a -> a -> (a,a) 22:46:52 toInteger :: a -> Integer 22:47:12 i think Integral is not meant to have members not subsets of Integer 22:47:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:48:54 monads aren't monoids! <-- alas, kind mismatch 22:49:06 weak 22:50:00 you _could_ make all monad value types monoids, but then you wouldn't be able to have any other monoids of form t a without overlappinginstances 22:50:34 oh and of course it would conflict with the instance for [a] 22:52:25 I really would like this Transcriptic job (if it's telecommute) 22:53:28 Going to watch some TV to take my mind off of having sent an employer the worst code I have ever written 22:53:55 And by TV I mean Ghost in the Shell on Hulu 22:53:56 `echo hi 22:54:28 Gregor: STILL BROKKEM 22:55:38 oerjan, what is the conversion property expressed with {} ? 22:56:06 [F{A}] = [F](A) 22:56:53 so F is a string, and A a combinator? 22:56:57 yes 23:01:04 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 23:03:19 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 23:03:28 GitS is getting on my nerves 23:03:37 why 23:03:50 "We suspect XYZ" "Do you have any evidence for that?" ... the topic of any reasoning for suspecting XYZ is dropped 23:03:55 And no one complains 23:04:23 They can't waste time for things with no evidence! 23:05:08 They don't drop XYZ, just the topic of why XYZ is suspected 23:05:49 "We suspect Canada" "Do you have any evidence for that?" "Not yet." 23:05:53 oerjan, now all makes sense:) 23:09:24 -!- ogrom has joined. 23:10:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:14:23 that sounds like TV news 23:14:50 "Are teenagers inhaling bees for a cheap high?" "Well, are they?" "Beats us, but we got you to sit through the last commercial break" 23:17:06 haha 23:20:14 jesus christ, what is with all these screams outside 23:27:31 it's the beginning of the great edinburgh zombie cataclysm. 23:28:01 Pretty loud zombies if I can hear them from here. 23:28:30 that's not the zombies, that's their victims hth 23:28:56 or wait are you implying you're not in edinburgh any longer 23:30:26 I'm in England now. 23:30:53 shocking 23:31:35 I'm not even in Hexham. 23:31:41 gasp. 23:34:15 oh well i guess it's not zombies then. maybe hooligans? 2013-01-29: 00:00:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 00:03:38 22:50:00 you _could_ make all monad value types monoids, but then you wouldn't be able to have any other monoids of form t a without overlappinginstances 00:03:51 oerjan: um but the idea is to express the monoids-in-the-category-of-endofunctors thing 00:03:57 which you can do, with PolyKinds 00:04:14 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:04:24 -!- HackEgo has joined. 00:04:26 `echo What is love? 00:04:29 What is love? 00:04:33 Hm 00:06:06 elliott: OKAY 00:06:12 `echo yay! 00:06:13 yay! 00:07:01 `echo I'm still broken! 00:07:01 I'm still broken! 00:07:41 `echo Your MOM is still broken. 00:07:43 Your MOM is still broken. 00:24:54 fungot: define love 00:24:56 c00kiemon5ter: what is smerdyakov? :) taken me all night if i actually ever remember to watch introducing python to make something like srfi-49 afaik 00:25:20 fungot: define cookie 00:25:21 c00kiemon5ter: they gotta teach her how to conjugate verbs 00:25:52 that they do 00:25:58 'US senate special election to replace John Kerry will be June 35' 00:27:08 why's he being replaced 00:27:17 becoming secretary of state 00:27:22 offense to the gregorian calendar 00:27:32 oh, i thought he died 00:27:41 then the photo caption says "June 325" which is April 21, 2014 00:27:50 Oh, what's happening to Clinton? 00:27:57 stepping down 00:27:59 he died 00:28:01 she's dying rip 00:28:05 nobody's dying 00:28:08 Geez, I missed it 00:28:10 are you sure 00:28:14 except for all of those people you don't know 00:28:14 kmc, don't be so insensitive 00:28:16 it was my understanding that everyone is dying and hence will eventually die 00:28:29 elliott, no nobody's dying right now 00:28:29 Rip already has a nice color, please don’t dye it. 00:28:29 "nobody's dying except the people on the other end of those drone strikes" <--- POLITICAL HUMOR 00:28:36 we all stopped dying for a bit 00:28:41 kmc: *HUMOUR 00:28:47 NATIONALITY-BASED HUMOUR 00:28:50 kmc: *HUMOURE 00:28:55 *HUMER 00:28:57 HÜMØR 00:29:03 good metal band name 00:29:04 HUUMORI 00:30:06 HUMMER 00:30:21 humøret i dag 00:30:35 clinton is taking time off to prepare to run for president, and/or to be old and really tired from being the hardest working SecState in forever 00:30:38 nobody is quite sure which 00:31:09 she does look damn old 00:31:09 wait 00:31:17 don't us presidents alternate in party 00:31:20 she would be the oldest first term president except for reagan 00:31:31 Phantom_Hoover: often but it's not in the constitution or anything ;P 00:32:17 bush followed reagan, so no. 00:32:25 i think she would be too old in 2021 so this is her shot 00:32:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:33:17 also http://jezebel.com/5959154/is-america-ready-for-a-white-male-secretary-of-state 00:34:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:50 -!- augur has joined. 00:35:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States is conveniently color-coded if you want to see about alternation or not 00:35:41 i thought washington was considered a whig, huh 00:35:56 a lot of the non-alternation comes from VPs taking over after the previous guy dies or resigns 00:36:15 sometimes they subsequently win a term on their own, sometimes not 00:36:16 ah, the whigs 00:36:19 what i want to know is how do you be the potus without going insane 00:36:22 well i guess you just go insane 00:36:37 did they eventually just die out because their name was so dumb 00:36:41 That's what the election is for, they go insane while finding votes. 00:36:51 To streamline things, I mean. 00:36:53 elliott: yes 00:37:00 elliott: it's a very efficient system 00:37:18 clinton running for president would be like... I'm not sure how she is even still alive 00:37:22 zombie president 00:37:25 stem cells 00:37:31 like that episode of south park 00:37:34 like how has she not worked herself to death 00:37:37 how old is she, hm... 00:37:59 ...well, at least she wasn't alive during WWII 00:38:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:38:04 hmm I guess that might be ingrained sexism because I don't really think the same about obama or whatever who obviously does unreasonable fuckloads of stuff too 00:38:10 Bike: haha 00:38:19 "it's the little things" 00:38:23 well obama was a senator 00:38:30 so was clinton 00:38:40 yeah, but she's done lots of other stuff 00:38:45 yeah 00:38:50 is what i meant 00:38:57 s/obama/anyone who works a lot/ really 00:39:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:39:11 for example that whole "secretary" gig 00:39:18 wasn't clinton kind of bad when she ran for president last time 00:39:24 memories are hard 00:39:28 You mean in 2008? 00:39:47 her advisors did not seem to have a full grasp of the primary / caucus system 00:39:59 does anyone? (I sure don't) 00:40:22 most of my friends were pretty pissed at her because we all wanted Obama to get the nomination, but then we pretty much didn't care once that was over 00:40:35 Bike: hopefully paid political advisors at the highest level of national politics do 00:40:42 ;P 00:40:50 anyway, they had a much worse understanding than obama's people 00:41:06 personally i can barely grasp the electoral college... 00:41:19 i made some decent money day-trading primary election contracts on InTrade 00:42:00 kmc: right it is like the other candidate for the same party with the same general policies is satan because they are opposing your preferred candidate :P 00:42:13 yeah 00:42:20 but then your candidate gets picked and they're a valuable ally in the fight against satan (the other party) 00:42:24 their policies were pretty amusingly close really 00:42:40 the main difference I guess is that Obama was opposed to the Iraq War early on 00:42:57 Something something Nader something 00:43:03 important because 2008 was all about who could be the least like George W. Bush 00:43:13 something something ron pauuuuul something 00:43:22 i wanna be the very best, like no-one ever was 00:43:26 RON PAUL gotta catch em all 00:43:33 Ron Paul: apply directly to the forehead 00:43:42 ok i'm done 00:43:48 L 00:43:48 A 00:43:49 T 00:43:49 E 00:43:50 R 00:43:52 S 00:43:55 *mic drop* 00:44:03 what would we do without you kmc 00:44:05 i'm sorry 00:48:22 I am going to eat dinner now rather than later because I did not eat breakfast 00:48:27 I think I might have food issues 00:49:13 wait didn't you already do college, shouldn't you be used to a shitty dietary schedule 00:53:21 College helped me. There's a sandwich place where I would go buy a sandwich 00:53:33 When I had school 00:54:01 oh, there's an IIS workalike for mod_rewrite, I wonder if it's similar enough that my rewrite stuff works 00:59:35 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:00:15 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 01:06:51 http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/Barry_Obama_lg.jpg NB: "choom" is hawaiian slang for "smoking the marijuana dope" 01:08:22 "not bad" 01:15:13 you should all be saving screenshots of embarassing stuff from your friends' facebook pages, in case one of them ever becomes president 01:15:30 either that, or don't do that at all and never log into facebook because it's terrible 01:15:31 I fail to see the embarrassing in that image. 01:18:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:18:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:18:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:20:01 oh no presidents that have been normal people once D: 01:20:05 uh hello?? drugs?? 01:23:48 bike: I’m sure plenty of presidents have used alcohol, too. 01:24:21 but alcohol is a good american drug 01:24:28 ion, you're not american, are you. 01:24:52 we have all these exciting insane mores that you guys just don't GET, man 01:26:33 imo we should circlejerk about this some more 01:26:47 I'd prefer an actual circlejerk. 01:27:40 maaaaan 01:28:28 hard to do that over IRC 01:28:34 If your friends have any remote chance of becoming president of the united states, you should find better friends 01:29:00 oh well, by the time obama leaves office, support for legalization could be close to 2/3 01:29:32 huh, really? 01:29:58 Marijuana legalization has been making rather profound progress in the court of public opinion. 01:30:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:32:24 http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/10/19/us/politics/fivethirtyeight-1019-firstpot/fivethirtyeight-1019-firstpot-blog480.png 01:33:08 2/3 might be a stretch but maybe 60%+ 01:33:56 cool 01:34:45 i think [UNINFORMED SPECULATION BY PROGRAMMER ABOUT SOCIAL SCIENCE AHEAD!] there may be a cascade effect with these kind of social norms 01:35:29 you're more likely to support legalization if you have a few friends who openly support it and aren't degenerate dope-addled hippies 01:35:46 i need more degenerate dope-addled hippie friends 01:35:50 kmc: wanna be one 01:35:58 i'm a phony :( 01:36:06 but yes i will be your friend elliott 01:36:23 oh boy 01:36:26 I've never had a friend before!! 01:37:09 also i love the dip on that graph as the baby boomers get old and start deciding that all the stuff /they/ enjoyed as kids is now scary and wrong when their own kids do it 01:37:13 truly, the worst generation 01:38:11 the hypocrates 01:38:16 *-e 01:39:14 kmc: almost as bad as every other generation 01:40:22 well in the american popular conception of generations, the boomers didn't do anything worthwhile like fight nazis 01:40:27 however this might be grossly unfair 01:41:41 well ai gree baby boomers are shit 01:41:51 but I'm not sure I can extend that to agreeing that not everything else is shit 01:41:56 yeah 01:42:20 "generations" concept is pretty bullshit 01:42:33 every time i see a NYT article about "millenials" i puke a little in my mouth 01:43:02 is the cut off date for millenials 2000? or if you're a bit older do you still count as Today's Mixed-Up Teens 01:43:23 i think millenials are 20something now 01:43:47 stereotypically, unemployed overeducated 20somethings who live with their parents after college 01:44:16 current generation is "Generation Z" and they are zombies 01:44:34 i'm a zombie 01:44:35 sounds accurate 01:44:38 do i count as generation z 01:45:27 Did they seriously just count up from "Generation X"? 01:45:33 Bike: Yes. 01:46:04 god, if you're going to use some bizarre-ass model of human growth at least have cool names for it 01:46:21 blame douglas coupland 01:46:25 what comes after generation z 01:46:30 ñ 01:46:31 nuclear annihilation 01:46:33 also isn't douglas coupland an anarchocapitalist 01:46:41 that is like the one thing i know about douglas coupland & i don't even know if it's true 01:46:44 oh man i am so up for blaming ancaps for things 01:46:49 yes 01:46:53 good life principles 01:47:56 "A specific feature of Coupland's novels is their synthesis of postmodern religion, Web 2.0 technology, human sexuality, and pop culture." 01:48:08 "He published his twelfth novel Generation A in 2009." oh /shit/ 01:48:25 i don't eactually know if he is an anarchocapitalist or bad or whatever 01:48:29 my memory is not terribly great 01:48:31 except about useless things 01:48:40 "It takes place in a near future, in a world in which bees have become extinct." 01:48:40 yeah it doesn't look like he is 01:49:18 so we're all dead or what 01:49:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Couplandart.jpg this is actually kinda neat 01:49:39 though it's kind of weird to sculpt something about that war in 2008? 02:11:41 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:19:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:24:33 Bike: what about existential types. comments on a postcard because I am leaving NOW lambdabot messages is @tell 02:25:10 @tell elliott i don't know, monqy said to ask you about them? i was wondering what they were for. also this may be some kind of plot 02:25:11 Consider it noted. 02:28:37 @tell elliott. @telliott. 02:28:37 Consider it noted. 02:33:44 -!- ogrom has joined. 02:35:48 @telliott 02:35:48 Unknown command, try @list 02:45:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:11:03 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 03:36:54 SQLite cannot create triggers on virtual tables, and cannot use ALTER TABLE and so on to rename views and triggers. 03:37:31 hi zzo38 03:38:57 ho38 03:39:03 But it might still be possible to do some of these things using the sqlite_master table. 03:43:45 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:45:07 i didnt know azaq23 hung out here also 03:46:18 Such things, as well as ADD COLUMN triggers on views, may be useful if you are making a view to override a table, and want to allow it to be further overridden. 03:55:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:55:46 -!- DH____ has joined. 03:58:50 -!- md_5 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:58:59 I suppose a lot of these things aren't that important and may be a bit difficult to implement, but you really should be allowed to rename a view. 04:00:29 -!- monqy has joined. 04:03:49 -!- md_5 has joined. 04:19:59 wow, apparently even if you have perfectly working internet, pidgin will refuse to connect to anything if network-manager thinks you don't have internet 04:21:03 That doesn't make sense, especially if you will want to connect to your own computer. 04:21:24 Why does Pidgin even know about network-manager? 04:22:17 I remember having problems of some kind that were fixed by switching network managers 04:22:31 I think it wasn't Pidgin related though. I was having connection trouble period 04:22:38 Using a different network manager fixed it 04:23:26 pikhq: beats me 04:23:36 probably so that it can do clever things like reconnect when you switch wifi access points 04:25:44 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:31:21 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:35:58 also if the rfkill switch for the PCIe WiFi card is enabled, then network-manager refuses to touch the USB WiFi card even though the linux rfkill subsystem says it's fine 04:36:23 which is bad news because on this system the PCIe rfkill switch is stuck on, which is why the USB WiFi in the first place ;P 04:37:16 Not using network-manager sounds like a good solution. 04:38:07 yeah 04:39:35 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:40:41 not to be all 90s Linux Guy but this shit is just broken, time and time again 04:41:01 doesn't complaining about things in ubuntu make you 90s Linux Guy by default 04:41:28 actually this is debian :/ 04:41:40 it's all the same shit 04:41:59 network-manager is always broken. 04:42:01 of course the flip side is that now the user of this system (not me) has to learn about ifupdown and wpa_supplicant, which definitely are less friendly to casual users than nm-applet 04:42:20 oh i remember giving up on learning wpa_supplicant once 04:42:20 but it's not a big deal for someone who's comfortable with the command line 04:42:53 kmc: What about wicd? 04:42:56 I heard it was OK once. 04:43:00 i didn't try it 04:43:02 i use wicd, it's ok 04:43:12 takes forever for the curses interface to boot up for what i imagine are stupid reasons 04:43:34 the dbus stuff is kinda nice though. 04:43:56 monoids are kinda nice imo 04:44:30 my friend said monoids make you impotent 04:44:37 i don't believe him but, please prepare a 3-page rebuttal 04:45:02 shachaf do you remember that time i looked up monoids and found a groups-but-less-so-but-still-not-monoids formalism used in describing concurrency? 04:45:13 you should use those for a network manager gizmo. 04:45:18 imo. 04:45:29 Bike: No. 04:45:54 Wait, what am I thinking, they're monoids but less so, rather than groups but less so. 04:45:59 So probably easier, right? 04:46:06 or harder???????? 04:46:15 imo let's just stick with monoids 04:46:19 we understand them 04:46:23 we love them 04:46:27 we know how easy they are 04:46:31 It's commutative "sometimes"!! 04:46:41 Associative? 04:46:51 Always, shachaf. Always. 04:47:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoid#Partially_commutative_monoid good description imo 04:47:35 Oh. 04:47:39 That's more than a monoid, then. 04:47:54 Even easier! 04:48:10 imo nothing is easier than monoids 04:48:33 but i like commutativity :( 04:49:56 i propose we give shachaf the old Ludovico treatment, where the film is just beaky quotes over and over 04:51:35 kmc: beaky gave me that treatment long enough 04:51:40 I used to be very annoyed by beaky 04:51:46 Eventually I flipped. 04:52:14 Is he some kind of criminal mastermind? 04:52:21 He's corrupted you... 04:53:34 i have joined the cult of beaky 04:53:47 it was easy so easy 04:53:50 i love it 04:54:00 * Bike backs away slowly, forming the sign of the cross 04:54:43 shachaf is cured all right 04:55:34 I'm addicted to reading about EVE 04:55:44 EVE is the new Sgeolang 04:56:25 Does EVE have a scripting language? It should have a scripting language based on the stock market. 04:57:07 ah, i do love cargo cult technical analysis 04:57:09 it is so easy 04:57:38 When's that quoted from? 04:57:57 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 04:58:05 the past 04:58:13 Whoa. 04:58:28 I was looking for a thing kmc said once but I guess it must've been in -blah 04:58:52 i `love` infix 04:59:16 Wow, this is like reading beaky logs. 04:59:17 not bad 04:59:24 i love (===) 04:59:30 i love counterexamples :) 04:59:34 i love <(...) redirection 04:59:43 i love lightweight threads 04:59:45 kmc......... 04:59:55 * shachaf stops 05:00:05 I guess we've uncovered beaky's secret identity. 05:00:19 Or maybe that's beaky's non-secret identity. 05:00:35 I'm going to have to burn down this whole channel to remove the taint. 05:06:12 i love burning irc channels 05:12:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:14:17 -!- Bike has joined. 05:19:49 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 05:20:18 howdy folks 05:20:23 it's been a while 05:20:36 `wehlcohme RodgerTheGreat 05:20:38 RohdgehrThehGreaht: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 05:20:57 hilarious 05:24:20 Hi RodgerTheGreat 05:24:29 how's it going, Sgeo? 05:24:55 Good. I have been paying attention in another channel where you happen to be 05:25:03 There is no non-weird way to phrase that, is there 05:25:41 well I mean what's not to like about concatenative languages amirite 05:26:17 stack shuffling 05:26:26 :: 05:26:56 This kills the space=composition 05:27:12 I used to hang out in this channel a few years ago and it just occurred to me that the only reason I stopped was because I was too lazy to log into freenode in addition to the other server I frequent. Except now I'm on freenode all the time too. 05:27:47 alternate answer to stack shuffling: factor better 05:29:05 it's not even that hard to write stack code 05:29:13 I think I've written like 600 lines of forth today 05:29:18 naturally that means it's crap 05:29:22 but it does work 05:30:10 it is surprising how often my code does work 05:30:34 Maybe random Forth programs have a better chance of working than random Clojure programs. 05:31:07 at the very least I can say that random strings have a better chance of being valid forth programs than valid clojure programs 05:31:54 Creatures SVRules was designed with that in mind I think 05:32:15 A programming language where random mutations shouldn't cause syntax errors 05:33:04 http://creatureswiki.net/wiki/Brain#A_note_from_the_programmer 05:33:13 yeah, I just found that page 05:33:34 Are there any esolangs on the wiki based off of DNA transcription? 05:34:26 I guess you need all the proteins and general systemic systemitude to get "the full unbrittle experience" 05:34:39 well there are quite a few fungeoids which might be suitable 05:34:55 Suitable for what? 05:35:11 for being evolved via random mutation without utterly exploding 05:35:31 at least not *always* utterly exploding 05:35:31 Oh. 05:36:09 Sgeo: An assemblyish language doesn't seem like the best way to do that, but it's way better I guess. And apparently worked. 05:36:25 I think it would be nice to have a graphical hill-climbing demo generating piet programs 05:36:44 Later Creatures engines don't seem to allow for brain mutations :( 05:37:17 Once made a genome where I set the brain genes to be allowed to mutate... the brain never mutated... wait, those are the genes, not the SVRules on the genes that I was looking at mutationwise 05:38:21 so if you had brain mutations what are the odds that you end up with a norn who just spins around in a circle until he dies or something like that 05:38:34 or is incapable of learning the word for food 05:38:57 Well they're still based on neurons aren't they? Shitloads of redundancy. 05:39:08 I don't think vocab stuff is stored in the brain as such 05:39:41 So you'd get a norn that just spun around in a circle on alternate tuesdays. 05:39:42 It's easy to modify the brain to, say, make them blind, or make them killing machines enslaved by a dendrite in their brain that, no matter what they want to do, forces them to "hit norn" 05:40:01 Don't know the chance of a random mutation doing that though 05:40:14 Sgeo: I'm torn between thinking that's terrible and thinking that's fucking great 05:41:02 I've done it. Watched two of them fight. Often one would be terrified but they couldn't run away. 05:41:14 Fun game, huh. 05:41:25 this is some doctor moreau shit right here 05:42:07 arguably much darker than the way people generally play The Sims, because at least in that case you aren't prying open their skulls and rewiring their brains 05:42:14 Also fun: Trying to make them produce ATP exponentially and seeing how much ATP Decoupler it now takes to kill them 05:42:25 ahahaha 05:42:32 What the hell, man. 05:42:44 Lemme see if I still have a pic 05:43:13 it simply never occurred to me to try these things 05:43:30 RodgerTheGreat, you're a Creatures fan? 05:43:46 I played Creatures 2 a fair bit many years ago 05:44:10 * Sgeo is C3/DS focused 05:44:17 Never tried the other games 05:45:50 have you tried using these surgically-altered supersoldier norns to kill grendels? 05:46:09 http://i.imgur.com/CcRPqzy.png 05:47:11 I don't know if the latest versions I have lying around are set to hit all creatures or just norns 05:47:14 I think all creatures 05:47:36 I also made them stronger (in terms of being less vulnerable), not sure if they're perfect though 05:47:44 So they should be able to defeat grendels 05:47:59 can you make them incapable of feeling pain 05:48:42 Yes, although I'm not sure whether trying to keep the chemical at 0 is sufficient, or if I'd need to clear the relevant neuron before the brain processes, or what 05:49:08 But why would I want to do that? It's not like the brain is going to process pain significantly differently from, say, severe boredom 05:49:28 Arguably pain feels better than boredom, because pain and fear cause the other drives to go down 05:49:46 hunh 05:50:23 do they just curl up in a ball if you wire them to always be in pain, then? 05:50:36 They make the "ow" sound repeatedly 05:50:40 And have a sad look on their face 05:50:46 man 05:51:13 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Antinorn. 05:51:19 (Note: Not the real AntiNorn) 05:51:33 Are there sim games that don't bring out the Milgram in all of us 05:51:47 I think that when brain-uploading becomes feasible at some point in the distant future there are going to be some absolutely monstrous games made as a result 05:52:13 People have made death threats to norn torturers 05:52:21 I believe it 05:52:32 they are cute and good at eliciting empathetic responses in humans 05:52:54 presumably on some level to discourage players from torturing them to death 05:53:27 Which do you feel would cause more of a response: Commands to cause norns to make sounds like they're miserable and in pain but don't actually feel it, or commands to cause pain in the norns that doesn't get expressed outwardly? 05:54:21 Breed I made once: The badniks. (Took name suggestion from someone). Basically a norn in a toy robot body 05:54:39 They can't eat or play with toys, for all the world they are a toy, but their brain is still active, suffering 05:55:10 ... Jebus. 05:55:11 Antinorn: maybe your username should be "AM" 05:55:33 I don't get it? 05:55:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_No_Mouth,_and_I_Must_Scream 05:57:44 Seriously though, what the hell. 05:57:54 Did you pick the wings off of flies? 05:59:51 Their brains are very simple, I find it unlikely that there's actually a conscious experience 06:00:29 Although admittedly I am uncertain as to what sort of programming it would take before there's a real moral question 06:00:35 I still don't pick the wings off of flies. 06:00:48 I'm talking about norn brains, not fly brains 06:01:04 You think flies are conscious? 06:01:06 fly brains are admittedly many orders of magnitude more complex than norn brains 06:03:18 -!- monqy has joined. 06:03:39 Hi monqy. The entire channel seems to think I'm a sociopath. 06:03:50 hi 06:04:01 Do you torture ancient Chinese friendship monqys? 06:04:15 not to my knowledge 06:04:16 I think a Han emperor shot for immortality that way. 06:04:20 I'm not really taking a stance either way 06:05:51 I've done good things to norns 06:06:06 feel free to provide examples 06:06:16 Wrote an agent that stops them from using the Holistic Learning Machine more than once, which is good because they tend to get addicted 06:06:50 http://exploringtheark.livejournal.com/2840.html 06:06:54 (Search for Sgeo) 06:07:46 I think the Xia dynasty is more interesting than the Han though. 06:08:06 I've made norns incapable of hitting norns, and norns incapable of hitting any creature 06:08:11 I should probably know more about Creatures. My friends played it when I was a kid and it's all very noncognitivistish AI. 06:08:35 It's not too late to start playing (it is too late to get an account) 06:08:40 Doesn't one of the guys behind it have a reasonably high-traffic blog? I think I remember reading one of his entries about today's mixed-up teens. 06:08:44 What systems is it for? 06:08:48 And why would I need an account. 06:08:53 Antinorn: does the process to make them abhor violence involve classical music and eyedrops? 06:09:10 http://creaturesdockingstation.com/ 06:09:13 RodgerTheGreat: ^5 06:09:15 Two independent clockwork references in one night! Whoa, man. 06:09:39 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:09:54 You'd need an account to let norns travel the warp: That is, sending norns to others, receiving them, or making portals that let norns choose to leave for other worlds on their own 06:10:08 Antinorn: Oh, cool link, thanks. 06:10:13 yw 06:10:15 -!- Antinorn has changed nick to Sgeo. 06:10:46 RodgerTheGreat: Also, welcome back to the magical land of #esoteric. Some people no doubt missed you. :P 06:11:07 I suppose that is vaguely possible 06:11:09 Bike, you'll need the DS Offline Option (which is linked on the page) 06:11:38 -!- noam__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:01 -!- noam__ has joined. 06:12:04 Oh boy, I love applying patches. 06:12:34 RodgerTheGreat: Don't know if I've kept you updated on the sheer madness that Egobot has become. 06:12:41 Well, more to the point, HackEgo. 06:12:52 It's really simple, it's just putting the files in the correct directories 06:12:53 it said hello earlier 06:13:07 Although the readme seems to assume you're on Windows 06:13:16 Sgeo: "the trick is to bang the rocks together, guys" 06:13:18 `run echo `which welcome` 06:13:19 ​/hackenv/bin/welcome 06:13:25 BLAH 06:13:28 `run cat `which welcome` 06:13:29 XD 06:13:30 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 06:13:31 Well, I'm also used to software not working on Linux. 06:13:39 Bike, this should work on Linux 06:13:45 I think that says it all. 06:13:48 I mean in relation to your readme comment. 06:13:53 Oh 06:14:03 So, I'll try it later. 06:14:13 I wonder if 90s vintage software will actually function on this thing. 06:14:18 monoids are so easy :') 06:14:30 hi shachaf 06:14:35 shachaf, norns aren't associative in that way! 06:14:35 oh no 06:14:36 On Windows, it insists on being High Color (16-bit) 06:14:44 monqy: that one was dispproval wasn't it 06:14:49 shachaf: : ) 06:14:58 was that a : ) of yes 06:15:01 Gregor: still writing horrifying and amazing things in javascript? 06:15:06 Sgeo: hah. 06:15:09 shachaf: yes 06:15:20 was that a yes of yes 06:15:20 This is more 2001 vintage software I think 06:15:22 or a yes of no 06:17:59 RodgerTheGreat: Since he seems to not be around right now: short story "yes, but not all Javascript". 06:18:07 https://bitbucket.org/GregorR His bitbucket is fun. 06:19:03 "The necessary components, adapted from OpenSolaris, to build working binaries for AT&T UNIX System V/386 Release 4.0 with no original C compiler system (i.e., no headers, no .a files, no crt files)." what 06:19:47 RodgerTheGreat: You may also like his IOCCC winner: http://www.ioccc.org/2011/richards/richards.c 06:20:19 Oh, christ, that was him? 06:20:20 I'm wondering if/when someone looking for Haskell monad tutorials will accidentally stumble on the APL/J description of monads 06:20:24 Yes. 06:20:34 Sgeo: god, i hope so 06:21:11 nice 06:21:57 'monad' is so horribly overloaded im confident someone has heard about 'monads in haskell' and thought it's some philosophy junk 06:22:21 horribly confused but probably at a less harmful level than the result of a bad monad tutorial? 06:22:52 hey, nuthin wrong with some random nerd learning about Leibniz, right? 06:24:00 a term for Divinity or the first being, or the totality of all beings,[citation needed] Monad being the source or the One meaning without division. 06:24:38 monqy: are you divinity 06:24:42 no 06:25:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:25:24 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Leibniz_Monadology_2.jpg manuscript on "monadology", by leibniz 06:25:42 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:25:52 is that leibniz's handwriting 06:25:59 i can't even read it 06:26:06 imo dijkstra's was better 06:26:44 for example: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd10xx/EWD1094.PDF 06:26:45 dijkstra's was great from a fairly objective standpoint 06:26:46 Monads are manifest, since they are everywhere, and there is no extension without monads 06:27:06 monqy: no that's comonads............. 06:27:07 That is a ridiculously neat hand. 06:27:14 fountain pens, man 06:27:21 fountain pens and giving a damn 06:27:54 Sometimes I wish I had handwriting as good as EWD's. 06:28:32 But even if I got a fountain pen, I wouldn't be able to do the other half for very long 06:29:09 The monadology thing is pretty hilarious actually 06:29:30 it's like atomic theory if atoms were sapient and couldn't talk and took up no space ("extension") 06:30:21 'later folks 06:30:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Quit: RodgerTheGreat). 06:33:52 * pikhq spends more time in awe at EWD's handwriting 06:52:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:53:04 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:53:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:10:30 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:19:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:24:52 -!- aloril has joined. 07:49:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:49:49 -!- DH____ has joined. 08:01:05 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:05:28 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:39:42 Aw shit, I just saw how difference lists are implemented 08:39:49 Or at least, one implementation 08:40:07 Uh oh. 08:40:10 Everyone stand back. 08:40:38 * FreeFull eats a sandwich 08:44:05 monqy: what does sky mean 08:44:14 is it good 08:44:17 hi 08:44:35 oh no 08:45:48 shachaf : monqy : [] 08:45:58 hi??? 08:46:09 Trapped you in a list 08:51:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:52:55 -!- carado has joined. 08:58:48 Maybe looking at the list of languages on RosettaCode may not be a good idea for me 08:58:56 oh? 08:59:55 Feed my language addiction 09:00:39 Maybe you should quit, Sgeo. 09:11:01 most of those languages are probably bad anyway 09:11:22 All languages are bad. 09:11:27 Except Ada??????? 09:11:35 Sgeo: imo ada should be your next language 09:12:55 Tip of the day: languages that a Sgeo uses are commonly called "Sganguages". 09:13:34 What do we call the languages Sgeo talks about but never actually uses for anything? 09:19:03 Sgunges, I think. 09:19:24 I mean, I think I've seen a few papers on the evolution of the sganguage-sgunge ratio. 09:25:59 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:43:22 "As concurrency is part of the language specification, the compiler can in some cases detect potential deadlocks." 09:44:01 "Ada also supports run-time checks to protect against ... off-by-one errors"? 09:44:04 o.O 09:44:22 Presumably just those that result in out-of-bounds access, or ... what? 09:44:37 i dunno man it's p.crazy 09:45:09 you can say "stuff like" type T is range 1 .. 100; 09:45:14 "lets see haskell do that??" 09:46:28 "Ada is a structured programming language, meaning that the flow of control is structured into standard statements." 09:46:44 Is this Wikipedia article written from the point of view of a person in the ancient past? 09:46:48 maybe 09:46:57 ada is modern though!!! 09:46:59 Are you from the past? 09:47:06 guess what the latest version of ada is 09:47:10 ^^apply British accent 09:47:13 answer ada 2012 09:47:28 c++ is only at 11 09:47:32 Also I should watch more IT Crowd 09:47:35 this one goes up to 12 09:49:21 2012 and it still doesn't have a turing-complete type system 09:49:35 Son I'm disappoint 09:50:48 So GNAT Programming Studio is a well-known IDE for Ada but it can also be used for Python 09:50:48 hmm 09:52:06 Your next language should totally be Ada. 09:52:10 That would be great. 09:52:41 shachaf, if it is, it is entirely your fault 09:56:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:03:22 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:09:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:26:46 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:39:22 coppro: So can you tell me about things that are corepresentable by a costrong copprofunctor? 10:39:41 he uld 10:40:02 coerjan 10:40:35 Type coerjan 10:42:27 no mment 10:43:00 @quote \bco 10:43:00 lispy says: I think communicating with aliens will make unicode obsolete :( 10:43:12 @quote \bco.*\bco 10:43:12 ddarius says: Alternatively, it could be arrived at from the continuity properties of exponentials. 10:43:22 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:43:22 ndm says: i once had a boss who complained because some code someone had written crashed, and yet "it clearly says in the company coding guidelines not to write code that crashes" 10:43:24 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:43:33 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:43:33 quicksilver says: < quicksilver> C++ templates can embed arbitrary computation at compile time < quicksilver> that alone tells you something about the complexity of the compiler < edwardk> yeah. 10:43:33 they were accidentally turing complete. (whoops!) ;) < quicksilver> edwardk: OOPS I ACCIDENTALLY THE WHOLE TARPIT 10:43:52 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:43:52 says: From "Inventing computer games with Python": "Copying and pasting text is a very useful computer skill, especially for computer programming. There is a video tutorial on copying and 10:43:52 pasting at this book's website at http://inventwithpython.com/videos/." 10:44:07 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:44:07 says: From "Inventing computer games with Python": "Copying and pasting text is a very useful computer skill, especially for computer programming. There is a video tutorial on copying and 10:44:07 pasting at this book's website at http://inventwithpython.com/videos/." 10:44:11 @quote \bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco.*\bco 10:44:11 No quotes match. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist! 10:44:17 That's too many cos. That's just ridiculous. 10:44:49 @quote \bco[^m].*\bco[^m].*\bco[^m] 10:44:49 luite says: *amacleod started excising GOTOs from his BASIC code when he was 10. *roconnor started excising GOTOs from his Pascal code when he was 11. *luite used goto's in his C code last year. 10:45:04 Is that a sin? 10:46:03 GO TO, I'LL NO MORE ON'T 10:47:23 @quote shift.reset 10:47:24 therp says: good morning. I think I have been dreaming of shift/reset continuations... 10:47:33 @quote shift.*reset 10:47:33 therp says: good morning. I think I have been dreaming of shift/reset continuations... 10:47:55 @quote \bco[^d].*\bco[^d].*\bco[^d] 10:47:55 edwardk says: People are strange, when you're a shapr, faces look ugly when you're alone, women seem wicked when you're unwanted, streets are all uphill when you're a clown. when you're straaaange 10:47:55 no one remembers your name... coz its changed...coz its changed.. coz its... chaaannnngeed. 10:48:36 @quote \bco[^d].*\bco[^d].*\bco[^d] 10:48:37 CharlesBabbage says: On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind 10:48:37 of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. 10:48:45 @quote \bco[^du].*\bco[^du].*\bco[^du] 10:48:46 Igloo says: Did hugs' ./configure always end with "config.status: executing ultra-evil commands"? 10:49:04 @quote \bco[a-z]+\s+co[a-z]+\s+co 10:49:04 No quotes match. Have you considered trying to match wits with a rutabaga? 10:49:16 @quote \bco[a-z]+\s+co 10:49:16 elliott says: i'm here to prove theorems and compile code and I'm all out of code 10:50:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Coearlier). 10:55:03 I remember reading through some C code recently and thinking "this would be much clearer with goto" 10:55:17 (it was a break out of a multilevel for loop by setting the control variables) 10:55:36 I think the more refined rule of "never use gotos to jump backwards or into blocks" is probably a better one to teach people 10:55:41 forwards and out of blocks is OK 10:56:23 goto is so good that you have to train people not to use it. 11:10:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:10:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:11:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:25:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:53:21 wow, I just saw some of the most muddled Java code ever 11:53:49 it opened the same file for both read and (non-append) write, then attempted to do a cat from one to the other at the same time as attempting to do the actual exercise 11:54:27 and contained about three nested loops, two of which both looped over lines of the file, and one of which was a standard "i=0;i and nothing in the body but a single print statement 11:54:53 (ofc it was unreachable, because a file opened for write doesn't contain any lines) 12:03:23 Sounds like an enterprice data migration solution 12:08:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:08:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:08:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:44:45 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:02:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:07:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:13:12 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:16:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:16:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:16:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:29:50 -!- boily has joined. 15:00:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:18:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Brigstocke 15:18:10 wow 15:18:14 good photography there wp 15:33:35 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:33:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:48:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:49:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:00:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:53:36 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:09:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:14:47 ais523: i don't think anyone disagrees with that use of goto 17:27:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:31:21 !bf_txtgen Bye 17:31:27 ​60 +++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>.>++.>-. [238] 17:32:29 boring. 17:32:34 !bf_txtgen nowadays 17:32:36 ​82 +++++++++++[>+>++++++++++>+++++++++><<<<-]>>.+.++++++++.>--.+++.---.<++.------.<-. [247] 17:32:52 does it even produce nested loops? 17:32:57 !bf_txtgen produce 17:33:00 ​72 ++++++++++[>+++++++++++>++++++++++>+><<<<-]>++.++.---.>.<++++++.>-.++.>. [760] 17:33:10 !bf_txtgen The producer produced 17:33:12 ​177 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>.++++++++++++++++++++.---.>>>++++.<.++.<-.-----------.>+++.<-.<.>>---.>.<--.++.---.<+.>++++++.<-.++.-.>>----------------------. [447] 17:41:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:41:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:41:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:47:30 No. 17:49:09 It's always (+)*n [>(+)*a >(+)*b >(+)*c >(+)*d] and then a sequence of <>+-. 17:49:23 Er, with <<<<- in the (only) loop too. 17:49:40 Quite often that means there's a >><< in the loop. 17:49:55 (The Java program it's based on has the number of cells used as a configurable option.) 17:50:01 !bf_txtgen aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 17:50:03 ​68 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>+>+<<<<-]>+......>+...<......>..>--. [458] 17:50:30 Well, that was unexpectedly bad. 17:50:35 !bf_txtgen aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 17:50:37 ​65 ++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>+....>+.............>--. [723] 17:50:44 And that's not much better. 17:50:54 The version in the bot has quite a low count of generations. 17:59:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:20:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:21:08 !bf_txtgen é? 18:21:11 ​71 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>.>--.>---. [789] 18:21:25 !bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>.>--.>---. 18:21:27 ​é? 18:21:31 ah! :D 18:21:38 it works even with fake letters! 18:22:28 -!- DH____ has joined. 18:22:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:22:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:27:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:32:12 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:32:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:33:58 !bf_txtgen ー 18:34:02 ​86 ++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++++++>+<<<<-]>-.>-.>----.>--. [899] 18:34:43 !bf_txtgen 私のホバークラフトは鰻で一杯です. 18:34:45 ​854 ++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++<<<<-]>+++.>>-.<---.<----.>.>>------.<<<.>++.>------------.<<.>.>-----------.<<.>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>--------------.>+.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+.<<----------------------------------------------------------.>>>.<.++++++++++++++++++.<.>------------------.+++++.<.>-------.++++++ 18:34:54 not bad. 18:36:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:36:56 Your hovercraft is full of eels? 18:37:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:38:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:38:55 One would generally write that without the kanji for "unagi" FWIW. 18:39:29 So, 「私のホバークラフトはウナギで一杯です。」 18:39:52 Maybe also いっぱい instead of 一杯, but eh 18:40:22 !bf_txtgen 私のホバークラフトはウナギで一杯です。 18:40:24 Thaaar 18:40:25 ​744 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++>++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++++<<<<-]>+++++++.>-.>+++.<<----.>>.>++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++.<------------.<.>>.<-----------.>>.<.<<---------------------------------------.>>>.<<--------------.<-------------.>>>.<.<<------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>.++++++++++++++++++.<<.>+.+++++.<.>-------.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>+.>---------.<<.>+.+++++++.<. 18:42:01 !bf_txtgen おいししそう 18:42:05 ​144 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++>+<<<<-]>+++.>+++.>--.<<.>.+++.<.>---.>+++++++++++++.<<.>.>.<<.>.>++++++.<<.>.+++++.>>----. [965] 18:42:07 -typo 18:42:28 Two; that sucker's usually kanji: 美味しそう 18:43:58 http://zem.fi/esostats/people_stats.html PLORTS 18:44:18 Whoops, I forgot to update the

. 18:46:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:47:56 somebody wanted to screw up your x statistics. 18:47:57 It Must Be A Coincidence[tm]: HackEgo has a giant peak at characters-per-message = 10; the string "No output." has ten characters. 18:48:05 http://zem.fi/esostats/charfreq_x.html 18:48:45 'Whenever I see people say "lib/lab/con parties are the same, I'm voting UKIP" I read it as "coke and pepsi are the same, I'm drinking piss"' 18:49:19 mroman: The peaks there are things like http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-25#163851fungot for example. 18:49:19 fizzie: i'm not such fan of stacks, probably because he was expelled and couldn't sit his exam that he was going to 18:50:09 stacks proved that he was unable to form an orderly queue 18:53:40 pikhq: I like my eels kanjied, even if common usage disagrees. 18:53:57 Fine, whatevs. 18:54:24 I just like having an excuse to not remember the animal kanji. :P 18:55:41 when I handwrite it, I use katakanas cause my penmanship is abysmally bad. 18:56:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:56:44 Oddly, my Japanese handwriting is halfway decent. 18:57:24 I have this handicap called "left handedness". 18:57:29 Aaaah. 18:59:14 (Burn the witch!) 18:59:49 魔女燃やして! 19:03:13 eeeh... I think, last time I checked, that I'm far from being on the 女 side of humanity. 19:03:38 Could be trans and not know it? :P 19:06:42 -!- monqy has joined. 19:11:49 * boily はpikhqを大きなニジマスでひっぱたく。 19:12:38 Smartass. 19:14:29 * boily whistles innocently... ♪ 19:15:53 共産主義の話をやめる、我々は戦争に勝った。 19:16:34 Google Translate I assume? 19:16:47 ARE YOU CHALLENGING MY JAPANESE PROWESS 19:17:13 Yes, but that ended up being a remarkably understandable translation. 19:17:35 Not quite *right*, but remarkably understandable. 19:18:03 "Stop the communist talk; we beat you in the war." or some such 19:18:49 boily: So. 19:18:53 @left handed 19:18:53 TemplateHaskell is not enabled 19:19:02 I am too. 19:19:09 pikhq: Considering that what I entered was grammatically incorrect, that's pretty good. 19:19:13 it's actually pretty awesome that they write from right to left. 19:19:14 "Stop talking communist, we won the war." 19:19:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:19:36 the stroke order however is right handed. 19:19:45 Gregor: What it jacked up was it didn't use the imperative at all. 19:20:12 Gregor: "(someone) stops talking communist, we won the war" is more what the Japanese actually says. 19:20:25 If it didn't use the imperative, then didn't it really say something more like "You st—right. 19:27:10 let a = max {n, m} and b = min {n, m} 19:27:10 find q and r in a = q*b + r ; now compute the same with b = a and a = r until r = 0 19:27:30 Is this a recursive or iterative way of writing the Euclidean algorithm? 19:38:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:42:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:42:32 -!- Bike has joined. 19:57:30 does that matter? 19:57:41 you can implement it recursive 19:57:43 or iterative 19:57:49 But the way I formulated it 19:57:55 was that recursive or iterative 19:57:59 these are bijective. 19:58:07 well 19:58:10 until sounds iterative 19:58:35 hm, edge condition for recursion? 19:59:03 actually I think it is somehow iterative in that way, but on the other hand it seems recursive 19:59:16 the are the same as far as I'm concerned. 19:59:18 *they 19:59:40 for i = 0; i < 10; i ++ { i++;} 19:59:46 is that recursive or iterative? 19:59:55 iterative 20:00:09 ok 20:00:19 oh 20:00:22 *j++ 20:00:23 you clearly wrote the interation step: i++ 20:00:27 *iteration 20:00:32 so 20:00:39 let i = 0; 20:01:08 yes, but now you could formulate it different 20:01:12 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:15 and it would do the same thing, only in a recursive way 20:01:35 increment j and i as long as i is smaller than 10 20:01:40 is that recursive or iterative? 20:01:43 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:01:47 According to wikipedia, you need: 20:01:48 A simple base case (or cases), and A set of rules which reduce all other cases toward the base case. 20:02:13 although mathematical iteration is defined as applying a function to itself 20:02:36 AnotherTest: iterative == tail recursive, essentially 20:02:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:03:02 I'd go with an algorithm is an algorithm and you can implement it either recursive or iterative 20:03:19 oerjan: aha, and the example I gave was tail recursive 20:03:36 that would explain my confusion 20:04:19 although it should be noted that usual I don't know what I'm talking about 20:04:19 mroman: I agree, but I was just wondering about this particular formulation of the algorithm 20:04:24 *usually 20:05:33 suppose the following algorithm: 20:05:33 compute b = a + 1 and then make the same calculation with b 20:06:11 I guess that would be f(x) = x+1, f(f(f(...(x)...))) 20:06:24 So it can be seen as iterative 20:06:55 But you can also see it as f(x) = f(x -1) + 1 20:07:05 which is recursive 20:07:27 and the way I formulate didn't really tell whether or not I mean the former or the latter 20:07:54 although would it be a problem if the function took 2 parameters? 20:08:08 Well I guess you could still do function composition 20:18:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:43:26 -!- augur has joined. 20:50:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:10:35 -!- j4kudl4ty has joined. 21:10:36 -!- j4kudl4ty has quit (Excess Flood). 21:20:27 #django is like 10:1 questions:answers :( 21:22:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:58 ##questionsonly is 10:0 questions:answers. 21:23:33 -!- augur has joined. 21:23:40 ##answersonly is 42 21:24:01 I see what you did there. 21:27:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:30:26 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:31:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:43:16 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:45:44 > chr . read <$> words "72 101 108 108 111 44 32 119 111 114 108 100 33 10" 21:45:46 "Hello, world!\n" 21:46:40 > chr <$> [0xC3, 0xA9] 21:46:42 "\195\169" 21:50:25 -!- ElisaL has joined. 21:51:28 `welcome ElisaL 21:51:34 hola 21:51:35 ElisaL: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:52:18 hello 21:53:34 it's a bit quiet here at the moment 21:55:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:55:39 * kmc shouts 21:55:50 plenty of voids, of unanswered mythical questions, of puzzlements, of weirdness (even if we aren't going to reach next Friday in a while), and kmces who shout. 21:56:00 * kmc shouts at fungot 21:56:01 kmc: doesn't r5rs define core features and then library functions? 21:56:06 fungot: does it? 21:56:07 kmc: yep. i'm using drscheme)? 21:56:11 ^style 21:56:11 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:56:14 ^style c64 21:56:15 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 21:56:16 * kmc shouts at fungot 21:56:17 kmc: flag1 is a one's place, then you'll be able to understand. beginning and advanced programmers leave let out because it's the lowest location used. it concludes with the crsr keys. 21:56:39 nice alliteration there 21:57:52 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:58:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:58:34 -!- azaq23 has joined. 22:04:40 -!- ElisaL has left. 22:15:10 echo $((-2**63/-1)) 22:16:04 yep 22:16:20 > -2**63/-1 22:16:21 Not in scope: `/-' 22:16:21 Perhaps you meant one of these: 22:16:21 `-' (imported from P... 22:16:27 > -2**63 / -1 22:16:29 Terminated 22:16:40 `run echo $((-2**63/-1)) 22:16:41 Floating point exception 22:17:01 Ooh, that was nasty. 22:18:46 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:19:01 fungot: You're not paying by the character, you can say "cursor" and not have to abrv it as "crsr". 22:19:01 fizzie: one of the easiest way to translate sheet music for your statements might not otherwise run in the 22:19:08 lambdabot's running on a 32bit machine? 22:19:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:19 > maxBound :: Int 22:20:20 9223372036854775807 22:20:23 64-bit 22:20:28 "terminated"? 22:20:52 hmm… is that parsed as -(2**63) or (-2)**63? 22:20:55 I guess it has to be the latter 22:21:24 boily: well (-2)**63 == (-2)**31 on a 32-bit machine 22:22:16 (-2)**63 Haskellwise is a Floating, anyway? 22:22:25 > -2**63 / -1 22:22:27 Precedence parsing error 22:22:27 cannot mix `GHC.Real./' [infixl 7] and prefix... 22:22:43 Terminated just means lambdabot timed out for whatever reason 22:23:20 > -2**63 22:23:21 -9.223372036854776e18 22:24:33 http://kqueue.org/blog/2012/12/31/idiv-dos/ -- oh ho, that's been even in PostgreSQL. 22:25:13 it was a level in the io wargame too 22:25:40 > let x = x in x 22:25:43 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:26:12 in this case it's Terminated because it got a SIGFPE signal 22:26:23 possibly caught by GHC runtime, possibly not 22:26:35 kmc: um no it isn't, it doesn't parse hth 22:26:39 hm 22:26:40 ok 22:26:43 so why that result 22:26:48 > (-2**63) / (-1) 22:26:49 9.223372036854776e18 22:26:53 hm ok 22:26:58 > ((-2**63) / (-1)) :: Int 22:26:59 No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) 22:26:59 arising from a use of... 22:27:02 duh 22:27:05 because sometimes lambdabot gives Terminated just when it's too busy 22:27:06 > ((-2**63) `div` (-1)) :: Int 22:27:08 No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int) 22:27:08 arising from a use of... 22:27:21 > ((-2^63) `div` (-1)) :: Int 22:27:22 *Exception: arithmetic overflow 22:27:24 ok 22:27:34 there we are 22:27:54 kmc: fiora mentioned that there are processors that give you 0x8fffffff and 0x80000000 22:27:59 > ((-2^63) - 1) :: Int 22:28:01 9223372036854775807 22:28:04 Bike: heh 22:29:12 What about processors that give you 0x100000000 except somehow stuffed in 32 bits, maybe by making the 0s a bit less wide than usual? 22:29:27 are there such processors 22:29:27 they might burst 22:29:38 ooh, compressed integers? 22:29:45 Blorp, goes the processor, bit juice leaking all over the place. 22:29:49 most processors can't handle more than 1:1 bitcompression 22:29:55 that reminds me of the old microcomputer trick: format your tapes several times, not just one 22:30:03 each time the tape stretches a bit and you get more storage 22:30:29 and then *snap*? 22:30:40 right that was for the ZX Microdrive 22:31:26 or maybe the tapes could become vulcanizing if you stretch them, so that if you do that one time too many you end up with a solid puck of tape 22:33:24 Regular 1440k floppies you could (FSVO "could") quite well format at 1600k or 1680k for a bit of extra space. 22:34:23 (Sadly, it probably wouldn't stretch anything.) 22:34:24 I once had some 2.88MB floppies that I accidentally reformatted as 1.44MB and I had no tools that could add back the 2.88MB magic 22:34:33 then I was slightly sad 22:35:08 So does formatting a floppy drive actually redraw the lines between bits? 22:35:11 Er, floppy disk. 22:35:20 Floppy disks have little lines painted in between the bits, right? 22:35:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:35:55 the humunculus with the chalk walks out and redraws the lines, yeah 22:35:56 you have to draw the line somewhere 22:36:24 I guess I kinda expected the lines to be permanent somehow. 22:37:07 I suppose this means that a formatted floppy disk necessarily has a finite lifespan, since every time you write to it, the bits move around a little bit, and eventually some of the bits will get too close together. 22:37:11 ...right? 22:37:43 I don't think the bits actually move around, they just change magnetization 22:38:13 Well, I mean, if you draw new bits on top of old bits, you're not going to get them in exactly the same place that you did before. 22:39:34 magnets, how do they work 22:40:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk_format 22:42:59 In Linux you could just access/fdformat the /dev/fd0H{1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920} device -- going as high up as you dare. 22:55:36 1743? why an ugly odd number between all those beautiful evens? 22:56:33 that's parityist 22:58:19 > 1743/3 22:58:21 581.0 22:58:39 `factor 1743 22:58:40 1743: 3 7 83 22:59:48 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:59:50 what's the rule for determining divisibility by seven? i forget. 22:59:54 `run echo "1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920" | xargs -d, -1 factor 22:59:55 xargs: invalid option -- '1' \ Usage: xargs [-0prtx] [--interactive] [--null] [-d|--delimiter=delim] \ [-E eof-str] [-e[eof-str]] [--eof[=eof-str]] \ [-L max-lines] [-l[max-lines]] [--max-lines[=max-lines]] \ [-I replace-str] [-i[replace-str]] [--replace[=replace-str]] \ [-n max-args] [--max-args=max-args] \ [-s 23:00:26 `run echo "1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920" | xargs -d, -n 1 factor 23:00:28 1600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 \ 1680: 2 2 2 2 3 5 7 \ 1722: 2 3 7 41 \ 1743: 3 7 83 \ 1760: 2 2 2 2 2 5 11 \ 1840: 2 2 2 2 5 23 \ factor: `1920\n' is not a valid positive integer 23:00:40 `run echo -n "1600,1680,1722,1743,1760,1840,1920" | xargs -d, -n 1 factor 23:00:42 1600: 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 5 \ 1680: 2 2 2 2 3 5 7 \ 1722: 2 3 7 41 \ 1743: 3 7 83 \ 1760: 2 2 2 2 2 5 11 \ 1840: 2 2 2 2 5 23 \ 1920: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 23:01:16 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:01:41 'night everyone! 23:01:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:02:31 looks like several of them are multiples of 21 23:02:33 I'm going to go ahead and suspect it had 83 tracks and 21 sectors/track. 23:03:54 (Because the standard 1440 comes from 80*18.) 23:05:36 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:06:41 > [1660 == 80*20, 1680 == 80*21, 1722 == 82*21, 1743 == 83*21, 1760 == 80*22, 1840 == 80*23, 1920 == 80*24] 23:06:43 [False,True,True,True,True,True,True] 23:06:48 oops 23:06:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:06:55 > [1600 == 80*20, 1680 == 80*21, 1722 == 82*21, 1743 == 83*21, 1760 == 80*22, 1840 == 80*23, 1920 == 80*24] 23:06:56 [True,True,True,True,True,True,True] 23:07:50 huh, the seven rule is weird. 23:08:28 divisibility by seven? 23:08:30 > and [1600 == 80*20, 1680 == 80*21, 1722 == 82*21, 1743 == 83*21, 1760 == 80*22, 1840 == 80*23, 1920 == 80*24] -- OPTOMIZED FOR HUNAM PROCESSING OF OUTPUT 23:08:32 True 23:08:36 seven rule? 23:08:52 oerjan: yeah, like the "add up the digits, if the sum is divisible by three it is" rule for three 23:09:12 the thing is, that works because 3 divides 10-1 23:09:29 and the rule for 11 works because 11 divides 10+1 (duh) 23:09:45 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:09:46 the rules for 2 and 5 work because they divide 10 23:09:49 so what you're saying is we need more octal 23:10:00 but 7 doesn't divide anything before 1001 afair 23:10:11 > 1001/7 23:10:13 143.0 23:11:59 > 999/7 23:12:01 142.71428571428572 23:12:16 um duh. 23:12:42 imo should be 141, just to make sevens more unique 23:12:51 OKAY 23:13:08 and n/7 for non-multiples of 7 are all rotations of 285714 23:13:38 Last digit multiply by 2 subtract from rest test that for div by 7 23:13:39 iirc 23:14:16 > 999999/7 23:14:18 142857.0 23:14:47 Sgeo: yep 23:15:13 qqqqqqqqq 23:15:13 elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 23:15:18 aaaaah 23:15:35 Bike: they're for stuff 23:15:50 ugh can't you at least yell at me or something 23:16:17 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:16:21 Bike: FUCK FUCK SHIT SHIT FUCK 23:16:23 hope this helps 23:16:32 thx 23:16:32 binary swearing 23:16:44 oerjan: 132 23:17:19 no, just 25 afaict 23:20:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:23:57 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:42:16 * Sgeo has a feeling Gregor would agree with it 23:42:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/17hz0y/git_ui_is_a_nightmare_of_mixed_metaphors/ 23:42:36 yeah the git UI is awful 23:42:46 but the data model is elegant and the tools compose 23:42:47 it's like UNIX 23:42:57 except the UNIX data model is not actually elegant 23:43:34 the data model is broken in git 23:43:46 how so? 23:43:50 see: any #esoteric discussion about scapegoat 23:44:00 I like breaking broken data models down to "the simplest thing you can't do" 23:44:14 what's scapegoat? 23:44:16 in git, that's pulling some but not all patches from an upstream branch 23:44:35 and scapegoat is a VCS (which #acehack have branded "the #esoteric VCS"), which nobody has made a serious attempt at writing 23:44:55 you can do that easily, but you lose the link between the upstream patches and your patches 23:44:59 but the basic concepts, we've got down 23:45:23 kmc: no, you can diff and apply patches (and there's a command to do that automatically) 23:45:28 this isn't the same as tracking upstream if it's not linear 23:45:44 you can rebase preserving merges, although it is pretty nasty 23:45:58 yeah, and I don't want to do all this manual work 23:46:12 darcs gets this particular problem right, incidentally, although it fails on others 23:46:13 anyway i wouldn't say that the Git data model is 'broken'; of course there are some things it doesn't support well, but it provides a pretty good ratio of power to complexity 23:46:46 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:47:16 basically the problem is that it has no concept of anything but snapshots 23:47:23 it doesn't understand the notion of a change 23:47:28 and so has to run crazy merging algorithms each time 23:47:47 opinions differ on whether this is a good or a bad thing 23:47:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 23:48:00 it makes it much easier to understand what you actually have in your repository and how it relates to other stuff 23:48:39 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:48:50 which helps when your UI is broken 23:48:57 perhaps if Git's UI were better, it could support a more complex data model 23:49:42 afk 23:53:09 `? monad 23:53:11 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 23:53:32 well obviously 23:53:47 they picked the name to be intuitive like that 23:53:51 -!- olsner has joined. 23:54:19 Why did they pick that name, anyway? 23:55:11 because they are category theory fetishists 23:56:22 No, I mean the category theorists. 23:57:57 because category theory is a ruse to overload normal words and combinations of everyday prefixes and suffixes with complex and arcane meanings 23:58:11 I thought that was math generally. 23:58:52 not generally to the extent that category theory and other forms of abstract algebra do 23:59:12 no i'm sure we'll never run into issues with "group" 2013-01-30: 00:00:51 I had a haskellion tell me vehemently that I shouldn't implement a type system in a language by referring to things as having a "kind", because "kinds" are an utterly distinct thing from a "type" in haskell 00:01:28 i don't think it's just haskell, but type theory in general 00:01:29 well that's type theory generally 00:01:47 they're fucking words 00:01:48 though yeah those words are kind of. vague 00:02:09 and it doesn't matter what the words mean in haskell when you are writing a language which is not haskell 00:02:13 it's just that if you say "kind" to mean what people would think of as a "type" then you'll probably confuse people, so just stick with the shitty language we've got and hope things work out 00:02:30 RodgerTheGreat: "kind"'s meaning is well agreed upon in PLT in general, not just Haskell. 00:02:45 (Well, relatively well-agreed; ambiguity arises when you get to types-of-kinds.) 00:03:02 an ieee-754 double does not have enough granular precision to express how little I care 00:03:10 type three: revenge of the meta 00:03:14 okay well maybe you should just shut up 00:03:27 since you clearly know nothing about either category theory or type systems 00:04:22 no, no, throw in a nerdy insult 00:04:29 make this as horrible as possible for everybody 00:05:03 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:05:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:05:56 no I think I will just make it simple by telling the person who has joined and then done nothing other than shout loudly about how proud they are about how little they know to shut up and see how it goes from there 00:06:10 that everything is horrible should be self-evident 00:06:28 he was talking about creatures with sgeo yesterday! 00:06:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:06:39 they were comparing strategies for making small fictional animals miserable 00:06:58 disagree with the importance of terminology -> knows nothing, obviously 00:08:02 Clearly the people who made Haskell should have used a term other than "monad", to avoid stepping on APL's toes 00:08:37 the ghost of leibniz will venge them all 00:08:44 RodgerTheGreat: I think it's fairly clear that if you think category theory is dedicated to making up a bunch of words to confuse people you're probably just scared of them because you don't know what any of them mean. 00:08:50 `addquote an ieee-754 double does not have enough granular precision to express how little I care 00:08:59 941) an ieee-754 double does not have enough granular precision to express how little I care 00:09:05 There seems to be no such thing as a word that has a consistent meaning across every programming language. I do not know whether this is a terrible thing or not. 00:09:12 kmc: awesome 00:09:32 it's great when two communities have two different, completely incomprehensible terms for the same idea 00:09:40 like "flyweight pattern" and "hash consing" 00:09:56 it's hard to think of a worse name for this idea, let alone two 00:10:14 * Sgeo has mostly noticed the other way, two completely different ideas for the same word 00:10:31 wtf is flyweight pattern 00:10:36 bla bla descriptivism bla logic bla bla nihilism bla 00:10:59 say what you will about the tenets of Java, at least it's an ethos! 00:11:01 Sgeo: hash consing!! 00:11:05 "In computer programming, flyweight is a software design pattern. A flyweight is an object that minimizes memory use by sharing as much data as possible with other similar objects; it is a way to use objects in large numbers when a simple repeated representation would use an unacceptable amount of memory" 00:11:11 Wait, are you serious. 00:11:41 Clojurists call that "persistent data structures", I think 00:11:52 i think it's a bit different 00:12:07 it's like if you have a word processor and an object for every character 00:12:23 you probably don't want a different object in memory for every instance of a normal-weight 12pt times new roman 'e' 00:12:28 Sgeo: doesn't persistence usually mean it persists across invocations of the runtime and shit 00:12:34 'interning' is another term for this 00:12:39 Sgeo: does the clojure meaning differ from the usual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_data_structure ? 00:12:40 Bike: different definition of persistent 00:12:45 not quite the same thing as hash consing, if so 00:12:47 kmc: smalltalk "smallInteger" comes to mind 00:12:48 right. right, of course 00:12:59 SILLY ME 00:13:11 although in that case they're baked very deeply into the vm implementation 00:13:24 elliott, that seems to be the same as the Clojure meaning, except I think the Clojure meaning also implies some efficiency in the process, not sure 00:13:24 this idea of interning is somewhat different from the persistent data structures idea, which is like "if we insert into a binary tree to get a new tree, we can point back into most of the nodes of the old tree" 00:13:54 oh, i thought flyweight was more of the latter 00:13:56 a lot of langugaes have interning for small integers 00:14:03 python: 00:14:03 >>> 256 is 255+1 00:14:04 True 00:14:04 >>> 257 is 256+1 00:14:05 False 00:14:06 even java does it 00:14:22 that's more because of machine convenience isn't it 00:14:28 well in Java you also have primitive ints, it wouldn't make sense to intern those 00:14:33 kmc: er, they use bignums past 256, or what? 00:14:35 but maybe it interns Integer objects for all I know 00:14:36 kmc: I meant the boxed types 00:14:48 Bike: don't think so 00:14:58 it interns boxed integer types from like -127 to 128 00:15:05 but they statically allocate the heap object for small integers 00:15:13 oh, huh 00:15:15 even if they may contain a machine integer 00:15:17 Bike: python stores integers on the heap and stuff 00:15:22 but it caches teeny ones 00:15:36 "cool" 00:15:39 ints are objects, they have attrs and shit 00:16:05 In [4]: (99).bit_length() 00:16:06 Out[4]: 7 00:16:09 ghc interns small Chars, i recall 00:16:12 although stupidly you can't write 99.bit_length 00:16:19 why not 00:16:23 syntactic stupidity 00:16:28 yay! 00:16:38 Oh, because it could interpret it as a number with a radix point. 00:16:43 Ruby and Rails take this to the extreme, of course, and monkeypatch all kinds of nonsense methods onto the number class 00:17:09 because writing "3.sexy_goats" reads so much better than "sexy_goats(3)" 00:17:18 kmc: the "smoke 'em if you've got 'em" principle of language and API design 00:17:44 kmc, Smalltalk too, to some extent 00:17:56 who cares if you gratuitously modify the core language, as long as your client code looks superficially nice in huge font on a meticulously styled webpage 00:18:10 that sentence has too many adverbs 00:18:14 are you mad 00:18:24 I don't see anything inherently wrong with modifying the core language as long as it doesn't disrupt other parts 00:18:31 kmc: it's not code, it's ~poetry~ 00:18:34 oerjan: if only unicode was small enough to cache them all 00:18:45 "I don't see how that could go wrong, unless the monkeys started hurting people. Which they almost certainly would." 00:18:48 If that sexy_goats had some sort of namespace, so other things could add their own sexy_goats method to Object or whatever to do something different, I would have no complaint 00:19:07 RodgerTheGreat: right yeah 00:19:42 i would never understand, i'm just a software engineer, not a rockstar code-poet painter hacker 00:19:53 Although I guess in that case if the equiv. of doesNotUnderstand ... hm 00:19:55 ninja hustler 00:19:59 how terrible to have the self image of a well-paid highly skilled engineer 00:20:06 no kid wants to be that when they're growing up right 00:20:26 it's just so boring and middle class! 00:20:28 what's a doesNotUnderstand 00:20:30 unlike having a job typing 00:20:45 RodgerTheGreat: According to the API docs, Integer.valueOf will "always cache values in the range -128 to 127, inclusive, and may cache other values outside of this range". (new Integer(0) will of course always make a new Integer.) 00:20:47 kmc, the Smalltalk equivalent of method_missing 00:20:49 ok 00:21:00 although it's doesNotUnderstand: not doesNotUnderstand 00:21:18 Ruby and Python support basically the same kinds of fancy dynamic shit, but the communities have vastly different norms for when it's appropriate to use them 00:21:30 fizzie: right, got the ranges backwards 00:21:32 community norms >>> hard language rules 00:21:42 even Haskell's supposed purity is a community norm 00:22:04 kmc you sound like an anthropologist what's wrong ;_; 00:22:05 Combined with some minor awkwardness in impure syntax. 00:22:05 to be fair Python makes monkeypatching a hell of a lot more painful than Ruby in general 00:22:12 language structure dictates community norms 00:22:18 to some degree 00:22:26 (imperative programming in Haskell is quite doable, but it's also syntactically awkward, y'know?) 00:22:32 It's a kind of an arbitrary range anyway, since there doesn't seem to be a very strict reason for it to be a particular amount of bits, except perhaps for a slightly more micro-optimized range test. 00:22:40 pikhq: aww, I like imperative programming in Haskell! 00:22:45 it's such a good imperative language 00:22:54 `addquote If that sexy_goats had some sort of namespace, so other things could add their own sexy_goats method to Object or whatever to do something different, I would have no complaint 00:22:56 highly expressive, precise control over who can touch what state, good threads, fast 00:22:58 kmc: Not saying it's bad or anything, just that the syntax for it ain't the cleanest thing. :) 00:22:59 942) If that sexy_goats had some sort of namespace, so other things could add their own sexy_goats method to Object or whatever to do something different, I would have no complaint 00:23:00 STM 00:23:02 yeah it's not the best 00:23:13 I like imperative programming in Prolog. (It's so easy?) 00:23:16 Whiiich is why you tend do imperative when necessary and functional otherwise. :) 00:23:18 "no" 00:23:20 fizzie: I think it was something like "we need a reasonably small number of these to not be ridiculous. How 'bout the range of a byte? Cool, let's break for lunch." 00:25:41 bonghits for everyone 00:26:23 today on great images of wikipedia http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/BRDF_Diagram.svg 00:26:39 I don't even 00:26:43 * Sgeo misses Encarta 00:27:11 i miss Microsoft's special purpose mini encyclopedias 00:27:14 like if you like dogs 00:27:18 there was a CD you could buy 00:27:21 that had some stuff about dogs on it 00:27:24 not a lot, just one CD worth 00:28:01 elliott: what the hell? 00:28:13 Bike: submit to BRDF diagram. BRDF diagram now owns your existence 00:28:22 ._. 00:28:27 Not a part of Encarta I think, but there was this one CD that had a thing that let you fly around the Earth 00:28:32 was it 00:28:34 flight simulator 00:28:41 earth simulator 00:29:11 Microsoft Crash Into The Willis Tower Immediately Simulator 00:29:28 Microsoft Holy Damn This 747 Has A Lot Of Switches Simulator 00:29:32 I have here in my bookshelf a "Microsoft Encarta 1994 Edition", "For Distribution Only With a New PC". 00:29:42 kmc: does that just simulate the lone emotion of the 747 having a lot of switches 00:29:46 yes 00:29:48 and not any other aspects of the 747 flight experiecne 00:29:49 good 00:29:51 I would play that 00:29:55 Microsoft Surgery Simulator 2013 00:29:58 If I recall correctly, it had something like six or a dozen articles with video (!) in them. 00:30:06 microsoft sugary simulator 00:30:18 microsoft actually being bill gates simulator 00:30:25 it's a jewel case with a CD-shaped wafer of aspartame inside 00:30:31 Microsoft Actually Being Steve Ballmer Simulator 00:30:36 x = microsoft working at microsoft on the x simulator simulator 00:30:39 The video clips were in some 288x216 15fps format. But they were still terribly exciting. 00:30:41 Now with a hotkey for DEVELOPERS 00:30:53 > cycle "DEVELOPERS " 00:30:54 "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPE... 00:32:00 Next to Encarta there is "Microsoft Cinemania 1994 Edition", which I don't remember what it was like, and "Microsoft Dinosaurs", which presumably has dinosaurs in it. 00:32:13 These are all "For Distribution Only With a New PC". 00:32:56 Microsoft Sit On Your Balls Simulator 00:33:45 I have encarta '95 in my CD wallet 00:33:56 "Welcome to Microsoft® Dinosaurs! You'll be exploring a world unlike any you've experienced before, discovering amazing facts and long-buried secrets at every mouse click! Now, let's get on with the expedition!" 00:33:58 elliott: here is a game about how many switches the A-10 Warthog has: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huVi6rdPE4I 00:34:03 spoiler alert: a lot of switches 00:34:37 i also had some magic eye CD-ROM 00:34:44 that looks like too many switches for me 00:35:14 where you could MS Paint any drawing you want (read: penis) and then make a magic eye out of it 00:35:18 verb trains are so easy 00:35:27 oh god 00:35:29 it's spreading 00:35:45 kmc: you needed a separate program for that? 00:35:50 no, it's just sgeo 00:35:57 milhouse is not a meme, sgeo 00:35:59 I used to impress people by quickly implementing a stereogram generator in Excel 00:36:13 you can do it in about 10 lines of VBA, it doesn't take long 00:36:28 that's cool 00:37:10 Someone in #clojure just called me a markov train bot 00:37:28 markov train 00:37:35 everybody get on the markov train! 00:37:44 They called me a markov chain bot, not a markov train bot 00:38:00 Does the program come with the kind of patterns they put in those books? 00:39:53 fungot: Did you know that in the Markov train, what's in the front coach only depends on the contents of a finite number of the following coaches. 00:39:54 fizzie: however, sudh as storing machine language ( in the program g0es to the next screen line set the same shape. 00:40:10 juxt is like a J verb train with the concat operator between every given function 00:40:15 Sgeo: Well, that concludes it -- you're definitely a Markov chain bot of some sort. :-P 00:40:24 wow are you really telling #clojure about J 00:41:10 did you know: hidden Markov models are named after Hidden Markov, the Soviet Union's equivalent of Where's Waldo 00:41:27 HMMs were used in early computer visual search research in the USSR and the analogy stuck 00:41:47 haha, gonna have to pass that on 00:41:49 tell your friends 00:41:55 i know a guy who's a big fan of markov's son (yes really) 00:42:16 Did you know: Conditional Random Fields... aren't that easy to make a pun about. 00:42:31 They may or may not be random? 00:42:58 Is that really a pun so much as a rephrasing 00:43:40 (CRFs are spiffy.) 00:47:13 does markov's son have any sons, or will he break the chain 00:52:21 -!- augur has joined. 00:52:24 boo hiss 00:52:58 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:53:08 -!- augur has joined. 01:01:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:04:32 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:05:26 Sgeo: How's Ada going? 01:05:28 http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2006/11/02/the-c-is-efficient-language-fa/ 01:05:39 shachaf, haven't looked in a bit, will later 01:18:03 Ada is the new Sgeolang? 01:18:07 does that mean Agda is next? 01:18:59 jAgda 01:24:09 ajda 01:27:45 @quote shachaf Agda 01:27:45 shachaf says: Everyone forgets about Agda Lovelace, the first constructivist. 01:41:34 hehe 01:45:16 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/17idma/how_to_write_unmaintainable_haskell_code/ 01:45:40 i'm clicking your link against my better judgement 01:46:35 "the Succ (Succ Zeroth) Obfuscated Haskell Code Contest" is peano a Haskell Thing now 01:47:57 how to write unmaintainable haskell code: just write any haskell code "trolololo" am i right kmc 01:48:07 truly people will think "i mad" upon reading these words 01:48:19 Link the trolololo video first. 01:48:44 Bike: and what if i don't 01:48:48 Bike: will you have a...... problem 01:48:58 yes i'll have a not being trolled problem!!! 01:49:19 have u considered Bike.... that that is the truest troll of all 01:49:19 : ) 01:49:45 "Haskell's expressiveness allows coding in a very concise style. For example it renders comments redundant and makes you able to call all your types T and typeclasses C and them import them qualified." 01:49:53 this is pretty lame but i like the henning thielemann joke 01:51:10 "renders comments redundant", i'll have to remember that one 02:08:38 -!- monqy has joined. 03:20:02 -!- jconn has joined. 03:22:09 `list 03:22:10 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 03:22:13 ) 1 + 2 3 4 03:22:13 Sgeo: 3 4 5 03:26:57 what strings did you pull to get that thing in here 03:27:24 "hey have your bot join #esoteric" "fuck off sure" 03:27:59 Not that hostiley 03:28:02 whee ):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]] [42] [H] 03:29:14 Sgeo: imo use ada 03:29:35 no use fueue, look how simple it is to print a number in decimal! 03:30:15 * oerjan feels obligated to cackle evilly, but somehow doesn't put much feeling into it 03:31:28 I wish Ruby's functions were first-class. :-( 03:31:53 ruby has functions? 03:33:17 Good point. 03:35:13 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:38 well there's that thing where you wrap a function in an object!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 03:35:39 -!- augur has joined. 03:35:49 i thought it had methods 03:38:17 does ruby have monoids 03:39:01 It has + and *!!! 03:40:23 Do J's verbs count as first-class? 03:40:26 What is first-class? 03:40:36 J verbs can only be taken as arguments by adverbs and conjunctions 03:40:49 (which can also take nouns as arguments) 03:40:52 First-class is a thing to make fun of Pascal programmers with. 03:41:03 ? 03:42:39 -!- Arc_Koen has left. 03:44:31 what is love? 03:45:41 Are there any terms that are completely unambiguous, only one meaning across languages and that there's no room to argue about? 03:46:25 hahaha 03:46:39 pick one and i'll argue with you about it 03:46:55 identity comparison 03:46:57 sgeo, do you know what "prescriptivism" and "descriptivism" are? 03:47:42 Um, descriptivism = words have the meaning that they have from common usage, prescrip = words have fixed meanings 03:47:57 (Sorry, playing Mafia in another channel) 03:48:44 ) 5 1 $ 'Hello' 03:48:45 Sgeo: H 03:48:45 Sgeo: e 03:48:45 Sgeo: l 03:48:45 Sgeo: l 03:48:45 Sgeo: o 03:48:46 So if you accept descriptivism, your question is ill-posed. If you accept prescriptivism, you're dumb, and also need a dictionary nobody will argue with. 03:50:44 ) < 'test' 03:50:44 Sgeo: +----+ 03:50:45 Sgeo: |test| 03:50:45 Sgeo: +----+ 03:51:03 ) 'hi' CR 'bye 03:51:03 Sgeo: |open quote 03:51:03 Sgeo: | 'hi' CR 'bye 03:51:03 Sgeo: | ^ 03:51:06 ) 'hi' CR 'bye' 03:51:06 Sgeo: |value error: CR 03:51:06 Sgeo: | 'hi' CR'bye' 03:51:10 ) 'hi' LF 'bye' 03:51:10 Sgeo: |value error: LF 03:51:10 Sgeo: | 'hi' LF'bye' 03:51:15 ) 'hi',LF,'bye' 03:51:16 Sgeo: |value error: LF 03:51:16 Sgeo: | 'hi', LF,'bye' 03:51:20 ) 'hi',CR,'bye' 03:51:20 Sgeo: |value error: CR 03:51:21 Sgeo: | 'hi', CR,'bye' 03:51:21 bah 03:51:34 "thanks" 03:52:20 I don't get how it's ill-formed in descriptivism 03:53:06 hm maybe i don't agree with your summary of descriptivism 03:53:32 i think it's more like "words have meaning in the context of whoever you're communicating with", that is, you're describing how people view words 03:53:42 not just saying "it's common (whatever that means) for X to mean Y so X means Y" 03:53:51 maybe i'm just too radical for the dictionaries 03:54:10 I like your description better 03:54:33 But still don't see how it's ill formed. if everyone who bothers to use the term uses it for the same thing or not, is still a valid question 03:54:51 well i suppose you'd need everyone to think the same about that term then 03:54:57 so maybe not ill-posed, i dunno 03:56:56 the feeling of watching a YouTube video and then realizing you already saw it while super drunk 03:56:59 `list 03:57:01 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 03:57:10 oh hey yay 03:59:12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PCOcyt7BPI so, i now know true fear 04:04:54 o_O 04:05:09 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:05:35 it's really a testament to how safe air travel is 04:05:44 that they could do this hundreds of times a day (at that one airport) and only occasionally crash 04:06:25 i didn't even know you could do that with 747s 04:09:03 i want to go to hong kong 04:09:34 you won't be using that airport, of course 04:09:37 right 04:09:43 they built an island and put a new airport on it 04:09:48 extended an island, anyway 04:09:50 apparently the new one is on a - yeah, and a twenty minute drive 04:09:51 kinda sucks 04:09:58 i assume there is public transit 04:10:06 twenty minute busing 04:10:15 20 min from airport to city center is pretty good 04:10:41 is it? huh, i must not be cosmopolitan enough 04:11:07 it varies a lot but 20 min is on the low end for cities i've been to 04:12:08 i suppose it is a very common destination 04:12:11 JFK to manhattan is like a 30 min drive with no traffic 04:12:29 and like an hour on the subway :( 04:13:24 ditto EWR 04:14:16 ORD to downtown Chicago is like 45 minutes on the train 04:21:40 Do they use Ada on planes? 04:22:59 Sgeo: Yep. 04:23:53 ada on aeroplanes 04:26:20 Sgeo: you'll be hard-pressed to find a "language as cool as ada" 04:40:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:44:57 http://vooza.com/videos/culture/ 04:49:43 There's a yandere theme and a yandere02 theme 04:50:04 in ada? 04:50:21 Wrong channel 04:50:46 should be in ada 04:52:56 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 04:55:24 "Spotify meets Grindr, but for rental cars, but run as if it were for a hotel" 05:17:28 Something should be Done about people who listen to music so loud in their headphones that you can hear it from across the room. 05:17:45 better headphones 05:20:27 "earphones" in this case, I suppose. 05:21:31 It's annoying how with cryptography things, you don't get any useful debugging information when something goes wrong. 05:21:34 you'd expect earphones to be less leaky than headphones, but they tend to be leakier 05:21:49 best headphones in terms of low leak I ever got were in-flight on Air Canada 05:22:05 it makes a lot of sense that those wouldn't leak, if they were designed for use on aeroplanes with people sitting right next to you 05:24:19 airplanes are loud 05:24:27 it's hard to hear leak 05:24:40 only sometimes 05:24:52 and depending on where you're sitting 05:24:57 but it didn't leak even when not on the aeroplane 05:25:30 The noise of drums beating etc. breaks my concentration. 05:25:36 I don't mind the hum of airplanes so much. 05:26:10 i find that even the quiet bits of airplanes have a lot more leak-masking noise than, say, an office 05:26:21 unless you are the secretary of state and your office is an airplane 05:26:24 then it's probably about the same 05:27:43 -!- DH____ has joined. 05:27:53 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:29:48 air force 1 is smaller than a typical commercial airliner, isn't it? 05:29:59 also probably more manoeuvrable 05:35:14 air force 1 is a 747 05:35:28 well technically it's whatever airplane happens to be carrying the president at the moment 05:35:41 but it's /usually/ a 747 05:36:44 I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose 05:37:03 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:37:22 hm let's see if i can do this 05:37:26 `addquote < Sgeo> I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose 05:37:30 943) < Sgeo> I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose 05:37:34 wait, no 05:37:37 `delquote 943 05:37:38 ​/hackenv/bin/delquote: 3: Syntax error: "fi" unexpected (expecting ")") 05:37:49 fucked 05:37:50 why must everything i touch die........... 05:38:00 `cat bin/delquote 05:38:01 ​#!/bin/sh \ id=$1 \ if ! expr "$id" ">=" 0 "&" "$id" "<" $(wc -l /dev/null; then id=$(expr $RANDOM % $(wc -l quotes.new \ tail -n +$((id+1)) quotes >>quotes.new \ diff quotes quotes.new >/dev/null && exit 1 \ printf "*poof*%s" "$(quote $id | cut -d')' -f2-)" \ mv quotes.new quotes 05:38:12 hmmmmm nope gonna go with fuck it 05:38:40 It is, it just lists all permutations of the input list 05:38:49 Should really be some simpler way imo, not sure if there is 05:39:27 have you read your taocp today? 05:39:41 Well, besides other variations and besides the explicit 3 : '(!#y)A.y' 05:39:50 Erm, that's wrong 05:40:03 3 : '(i.!#y)A.y' 05:40:15 Sgeo: That syntax is confusing. 05:40:22 Can you show it in Ada instead? 05:40:48 ^ 05:41:08 Does it help to know in that 3 : thing that y means the argument on the right? 05:41:51 # is number of items in a list. ! is factorial. i. is list from 0 to argument - 1 05:42:04 Sgeo: Nope, doesn't help. 05:42:09 I'd rather see the Ada. 05:42:19 yeah i'm gonna need to see ada. or ideally, a j->ada compiler. 05:42:21 I assume that Ada would involve an explicit loop 05:42:31 Maybe... 05:42:37 I guess an Ada->J compiler would also work! 05:42:39 Bike: what, you're not up to debugging a hairy shell script inside many-worlds linux over IRC 05:42:59 mostly i just don't understand the qdbformat 05:43:08 even though < name> actually does bug me aesthetically 05:43:15 Bike: did you mess with `delquote................................................... 05:43:23 no, it's just fucked. 05:43:25 you can also fix it with sed but i too don't know what i'm doing plus i'm drunk 05:43:27 oh my god 05:43:30 thank you randall 05:43:33 see: 21:37 < kmc> fucked 05:43:34 `run sed 's///' quotes | tail -n 1 05:43:35 sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression 05:43:40 `run sed 's/a/a/' quotes | tail -n 1 05:43:42 ​< Sgeo> I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose 05:43:45 s/exy/tim/e 05:43:55 `run sed 's/< Sgeo>//' quotes | tail -n 1 05:43:56 I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose 05:44:01 `run sed -i 's/< Sgeo>//' quotes 05:44:05 No output. 05:44:13 "lets hope there were no "casualties"" 05:44:39 shachaf you're my hero except I don't know what you did exactly? could you write what you did in some other language, like one for airplanes maybe, airplanes are nice. 05:44:57 Bike: imo Sgeo is the expert 05:45:11 sgeo: help? 05:45:15 Sgeo: ada plz 05:45:18 `quote 943 05:45:20 943) I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose 05:45:47 `run sed s/se/ten/ quotes | tail -n1 05:45:48 I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verboten 05:45:50 it's.... beautiful........... 05:46:02 shachaf: good fix imo 05:47:46 music for airports 05:47:53 Bike: they should have sent a poet 05:47:54 good album 05:48:40 coppro: randall? 05:48:53 coppro: redbull? 05:49:02 `pastequotes Sgeo 05:49:07 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3314 05:50:06 shachaf, are you still a Forth? 05:50:14 HOT TENXY TENX BITS 05:50:31 Sgeo: Forth? 05:50:51 `quote 869 05:50:53 869) GreyKnight, shachaf is like a high-level Forth 05:50:55 Bike, the xkcd person 05:51:06 ^ 05:51:14 are you threatening coppro? is that how you know? 05:51:24 don't make coppro conform to your sick whims. 05:52:37 `quote N-Gage 05:52:39 86) (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) \ 832) 88) (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) [...] Is there supposed to be a joke in 88? Unless "N-Gage" is some pseudoscientific spiritual mumbo-jumbo, I don't get it. Oh, it's a cell phone gaming thing apparent 05:52:51 huh, that quote's still there 05:53:04 the joke is that it's bad hth 05:53:36 `pastequotes monqy 05:53:41 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32023 05:53:45 kmc: it wasn't intended for the purpose of getting quoted 05:53:46 oh for a second i thought that quote 88 was a quote about quote 88 05:54:01 `pastlog `addquote (still, 05:54:04 grep: missing ) 05:54:06 probably needs a backslash 05:54:10 `pastlog `addquote \(still, 05:54:12 88 is a common neo-nazi codeword and also a lucky number in chinese 05:54:15 is that part of it 05:54:22 whoa 05:54:39 isn't it just 8 though? you can't just like, make more eights for more luck 05:54:41 No output. 05:56:00 390 is glorious, btw 05:56:01 `quote 390 05:56:03 390) * Sgeo mutters about broken toilets #toilet is useless is #toilet even a thing I'm looking for help with toilets 05:56:15 hahahaha 05:56:26 Bike: more 8s is more lucky duh 05:56:38 a lot of chinese grocery stores have names like "Super 88" 05:57:05 where does the madness end! 05:57:50 help i'm addicted to mafia 05:58:49 Sgeo: IRC mafia or forum mafia? 05:58:54 IRC 05:58:55 `pastequotes oerjan 05:59:01 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28766 05:59:03 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:59:06 the forum version's better, and moves slowly enough that it's less addictive 05:59:36 I doubt I have the attention span for forum version 06:00:03 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:00:05 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 06:00:10 don't underrate your ability to play games sgeo 06:00:46 the forum version of #toilet 06:03:07 `pastequotes elliott 06:03:12 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5421 06:03:26 btw, this is a degrees of separation thing 06:03:28 read someone's quotes 06:03:38 based on them, choose someone it would be interesting to read the quotes of 06:03:45 see how many steps it takes to reach elliott 06:03:47 Wait, why do you make fun of Sgeo for living in Farmington with that Gregor quote. 06:05:21 "245) 320 quotes and still not a funny one yet!" gosh this channel is picky 06:07:57 `pastequotes zzo38 06:08:03 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19991 06:10:05 bleh, we need a `quotecontext, but it'll be a pain to implement 06:10:56 note to self: actually do work this summer 06:11:09 there's a prize at the end if I succeed 06:11:20 well, two prizes which I value completely wrongly 06:11:52 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:12:03 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Quit: RodgerTheGreat). 06:12:04 311) AV is better than first-past-the-post, like every voting system apart from the Random Elephant Stomping method <-- i think sortition is probably better than fptp in many situations!! 06:12:30 Bike: I was planning to ask elliott what the Random Elephant Stomping method was 06:12:42 I sort-of have an idea, but can think of at least two possibilities 06:12:50 depending on whether the elephants are aimed at the politicians or the voters 06:12:53 it's either sortition or - yeah 06:13:03 i see you're well versed in psephology 06:14:13 * ais523 concludes that zzo38 is actually the only sane person on the internet 06:14:25 i think we all knew that. 06:15:45 RodgerTheGreat was here? :D 06:16:03 He left? :( 06:16:23 `quote 340 06:16:25 340) Learn to be Chinese and kill yourself 06:16:33 I flat out cannot imagine zzo38 saying that. 06:16:41 `quote 842 06:16:43 842) The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today. 06:16:52 that's probably the most typical zzo38 ever 06:17:51 `pastequotes fizzie 06:17:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10858 06:18:09 btw, reading the zzo38 quotes page made me laugh enough irl I was actually having difficulty breathing 06:18:16 let's hope the fizzie quotes page is less potentially fatal 06:19:53 OK, 489 is excellent 06:19:55 `quote 489 06:19:57 489) That's the stupidest thing I've heard all morning. (Though I did wake up five minutes ago, so I haven't had a chance to hear very much.) The "Why are you still asleep? I told the cat to wake you up." comment does come pretty close, though. 06:20:57 this was a bad decision I think 06:21:06 reading `pastequotes at 30:20am 06:21:09 `quote 285 06:21:10 285) I think I managed to make Stack Overflow work on gopher, now. 06:21:53 funny how elliott referred to him as the guy who just joined when i think of him as a legendary esolanger of ye olde. 06:24:25 `pastequotes Bike 06:24:30 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4035 06:24:41 ?? 06:24:43 ok, winner 06:24:46 `quote 894 06:24:47 894) fungot: Are you the previous version of zzo38? fizzie: i run some interactive tex programs 06:24:54 Sgeo: i'm too cool for ascii school 06:25:01 that one's good but I prefer the quote about the cat 06:25:02 Why did my browser download it instead of showing it 06:25:20 ais523: thank you, you've made my evening^Wmorning 06:25:25 because an encoding thing makes pastebot present it as octets instead of text/fuckeverything, I think 06:44:38 hm it sends Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ascii" 06:45:05 "HTTP/1.1 200 Script output follows" 06:45:12 that's a... nontraditional response message 06:45:20 lol. 06:45:54 also both the weird characters i used actually are ascii so hm 06:49:56 which characters are those 06:50:33 that server will definitely send charset="ascii" on files containing high-bit bytes :( 06:50:39 ^B and ^O 06:50:42 heh 06:51:06 whippersnapper bitches don't know bout my control characters 06:51:38 ahem I think that's called STX and SI 06:52:05 Start of Text, Shift In 06:52:18 i should start a webdev trend of using ASCII control characters for their original meanings 06:52:22 it's like REST but more old school 06:52:51 haha oh god yes 06:58:39 STAND BY FOR TRANSMISSION 06:59:04 kmc: Do it! 06:59:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:59:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:01:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:02:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:11:53 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:11:59 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:18:27 http://www.python.org/doc/humor/#python-block-delimited-notation-parsing-explained 08:19:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:18 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:26:00 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:32:10 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:23:00 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:33:34 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:39:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:41:43 Esolang idea: Normal looking language that makes things like malicious code hidden in plain sight too easy 09:41:57 You mean PHP? 09:43:15 PHP is itself malicious, so it isn't really the same thing. 09:44:00 Sgeo: Hmm, does Ada have that property? 09:45:01 I doubt it but I don't know Ada and am guessing based on what is effectively Ada marketing. 09:45:59 Sgeo: Well, you should learn Ada. 09:46:02 That way you'd know. 10:00:24 * Sgeo was not expecting Ada to be hard to google 10:00:24 :/ 10:00:35 Although J is definitely worse 10:00:40 Google keeps thinking I want Java 10:01:20 "Pentagon. Hackers are nearly unanimous in observing that, technically, it is precisely what one might expect given that kind of endorsement by fiat; bloated, crockish, difficult to use, and overall a disastrous, multi-billion-dollar boondoggle (one common description was "The PL/I of the 1980s")." 10:01:39 "It's quite apparent that the evolution of the C family of languages (C, C++, Java, C#) is converging on a language very like Ada, except unfortunately as a kludgepile rather than a clean design. 10:01:39 " 10:03:34 "The code name itself was an inside joke: Ada Augusta, Countess of Lovelace, was a famous armchair programmer/system architect who never in her entire life had gotten a single program to compile, link, or run." 10:03:45 http://bit.csc.lsu.edu/~gb/csc4101/Reading/gigo-1997-04.html (note: humor) 10:06:01 o.O 10:06:03 'Ada initially planted a subconscious Y2K time-bomb: "YEAR: INTEGER range 0..2000;" [Ada79, p.3-12], but then got Third Reich ambitions: "YEAR: INTEGER range 0..4000;" [Ada83, p.3-34], before settling on a Y2.1K time-bomb: "subtype YEAR_NUMBER is INTEGER range 1901..2099;"' 10:06:23 Does... um... Ada actually come with a YEAR_NUMBER type like that? 10:07:23 http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/12rm/html/RM-9-6.html 10:07:27 subtype Year_Number is Integer range 1901 .. 2399; 10:08:54 Sgeo: You're the Ada expert, though; you should've told me! 10:13:22 There is an /r/ada 10:13:35 The motto seems to be "When the software HAS to work" 10:14:11 Sgeo: It might do you good to write software that works. 10:14:34 I have written software! 10:14:45 That mostly but not entirely works 10:18:07 That's why you need Ada. 10:18:50 Yes because a million compile-time checks will totally help when I make a wrong assumption about incoming data 10:19:08 And when I can't figure out an optimal algorithm for a problem 10:19:26 Hmm 10:19:33 I could like Basshunter 10:19:48 That's not a could, that's a must. It's mandatory. 10:20:47 Sgeo: Look, first learn Ada, then talk. 10:21:10 I'm reading one of the wikibooks 10:22:07 "This book is intended for professional readers." 10:22:14 * Sgeo is totally paid to just sit around and read 10:23:58 shachaf, is it ok if I read a tutorial written for Ada 2005? 10:24:22 Ada 2012 is better. 10:24:28 But whatever helps you learn the language. 10:26:32 * Sgeo can guess at a few features Ada wouldn't have 10:26:56 macros, changing stuff around at run-time 10:27:34 I don't know if it has any functional programming stuff, but wouldn't be surprised either way (as in, doubt it would be there from way back when, but could have been added in later for all I know) 10:30:13 Oh hey Ada for is a foreach 10:30:21 Or, wait, no 10:30:36 for variable in range loop 10:30:46 Guess I don't know what constitutes a range yet 10:32:27 * Sgeo is shocked that shachaf is not in #ada 10:32:41 I didn't know there was a channel! 10:33:02 It's in aid a' Ada 10:33:18 Hmm, some familiar names. 10:35:14 http://www.ada2012.org/ 10:35:25 There's a video about Ada 2012 10:38:24 They're still making comparisons to C++ 10:38:25 :( 10:38:58 Could they at least _look_ at other languages? Looking at languages that existed decades ago stops you from seeing new ideas, some, if not all, of which may be useful 10:41:48 There aren't many languages that seriously try to compete with C++ in its niche. 10:41:54 (Quite a big niche.) 10:43:15 @quote multi.?paradigm 10:43:15 No quotes match. BOB says: You seem to have forgotten your passwd, enter another! 10:43:48 "Conditional expressions provide a compact notation for a common idiom." 10:44:25 That... a) That seems late to get that, but b) Leaving it out completely makes some sense 10:44:36 So, adding it in 2012 just... doesn't make sense to me 10:46:24 http://rule34.paheal.net/post/list/LHC-tan/1 10:47:10 ^ NSFW. And screw the ads on that site. And what character is that? 10:47:27 http://rule34-data-003.paheal.net/_images/d6855b9194279e9cae3087959ee995fd/780128%20-%20LHC-tan%20Ru-Chans%20large_hadron_collider.jpg 10:47:27 ...large hadron collider? 10:48:30 Yes, it should be noted that the website named "rule34.paheal.net" may contain pornographic images 10:50:41 Sgeo: Axmax6 knows Haskell. 10:54:40 What's SPARK? 10:56:32 wtf is jvm-windows 11:01:17 Ada has goto. 11:02:15 Oh, SPARK is a restiction of Ada I think 11:02:17 Restriction 11:15:00 Hmf. This computer is not mounting my phone as a USB mass storage device for some reason. (It did mount a stick a while ago.) 11:20:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:21:12 Oh, I suppose it's the phone's fault, it says "device storage in use". Curious. 11:36:39 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:37:16 * Sgeo decides that in J, the next number after negative 1 is infinity 11:38:51 Sgeo: What about Ada? 11:39:38 Would be nice to find an actual tutorial on recent Ada 11:39:46 Wikibooks does not count as a tutorial as far as I'm concerned 11:40:26 Maybe you should ask in #ada instead of repeating platitudes. 11:45:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:45:36 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:55:52 "That said, it really isn't used nearly enough. For instance, it is naturally almost immune to buffer overflow exploits, so it really ought to be the preferred language for OS development." 11:56:04 Because Ada is the only language immune to buffer overflow exploits 11:59:06 How can I tell emacs that this file with a weird extension is XML and should be syntax-highlighted as such? 11:59:47 http://www.adapower.com/index.php?Command=Class&ClassID=FAQ&CID=359 11:59:54 Ada vs. Eiffel flamewars? 12:00:49 Ada > Eiffel, obviously. 12:00:58 Sgeo: You could also learn Sather, though. 12:01:10 sather: better than eiffel???????? 12:01:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:05:49 Sgeo: J's number literals are sorta weird 12:05:58 Especially negative infinity... "__" 12:06:58 If a rank _2 verb operates on pieces of 2 ranks lower than its argument, and a rank _1 verb operates on pieces of 1 rank lower than its argument, what rank verb operates on pieces of rank 0 lower than its argument? 12:08:43 * FireFly didn't know about negative ranks 12:09:25 Hmm, didn't elliott dabble with J ages ago? 12:09:47 Well, nouns can't be negative rank 12:10:09 ) <"_1 (1 2 3) 12:10:09 Sgeo: +-+-+-+ 12:10:10 Sgeo: |1|2|3| 12:10:10 Sgeo: +-+-+-+ 12:10:19 ) sqrt 2 12:10:19 shachaf: |value error: sqrt 12:10:20 shachaf: | sqrt 2 12:10:24 ) sqrt 3 12:10:25 shachaf: |value error: sqrt 12:10:25 shachaf: | sqrt 3 12:10:26 ) %: 2 12:10:26 Sgeo: 1.41421 12:10:29 ) sqrt 4 12:10:29 shachaf: |value error: sqrt 12:10:29 shachaf: | sqrt 4 12:10:32 Hmm. 12:10:35 It's broken. 12:10:36 ) sqrt 5 12:10:37 shachaf: |value error: sqrt 12:10:37 shachaf: | sqrt 5 12:10:40 You're broken 12:10:48 HireFly 12:10:49 ) sqrt =: %: 12:10:49 Sgeo: |ok 12:10:53 Hachaf 12:11:13 ) sqrt 5 12:11:13 Sgeo: 2.23607 12:11:43 ) sqrt^:(_1) 5 12:11:43 Sgeo: 25 12:11:55 > (sqrt 5 + 1) / 2 12:11:57 1.618033988749895 12:11:58 ) (sqrt 5 + 1) / 2 12:11:59 shachaf: |value error: sqrt 12:11:59 shachaf: | ( sqrt 5+1)/2 12:12:01 Hmm. 12:12:03 Still broken. 12:12:19 ) sqrt 12:12:20 Sgeo: %: 12:12:29 ) 1 + 1 12:12:29 shachaf: 2 12:12:39 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 12:12:42 ) sqrt 12:12:43 Sgeo|web: |value error: sqrt 12:12:48 / isn't division 12:12:56 % is divisio 12:13:00 division 12:13:02 / is (basically) a fold 12:13:06 And I guess we all have separate sandboxes? 12:13:09 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Client Quit). 12:13:13 ) 4 / 2 12:13:13 shachaf: |domain error 12:13:13 shachaf: | 4/2 12:13:16 ) +/ i.10 NB. sum of the first 10 integers 12:13:16 FireFly: 45 12:13:19 That should be 2 12:13:24 ) 4 % 2 12:13:24 Sgeo: 2 12:13:26 This language is broken. 12:13:30 Sorry. 12:13:33 No, you can't fold the operator 4 over the list [2] 12:13:44 FireFly: Um, / means division. 12:13:47 Can't you read?! 12:14:06 > 4 ÷ 2 12:14:06 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 12:14:07 ) / =: % NB. probably won't work 12:14:07 Sgeo: |syntax error 12:14:07 Sgeo: | /=:% 12:14:10 lambdabot: you're broken 12:14:13 You can't divide :( 12:15:00 Pretty sure / is a solidus btw, not a division operator ^_^ 12:15:05 FireFly, your argument is invalid. 12:15:20 :( 12:16:42 > 2 ⟌ 4 12:16:42 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 12:16:51 (U+27CC LONG DIVISION.) 12:17:38 > let () = (/) in 4 2 12:17:39 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 12:17:41 aw 12:17:49 Doubt it could be made to work 12:17:50 fizzie: It should be called AMERICAN LONG DIVISION 12:17:55 We learned it the other way. 12:18:01 > let = (/) in 4 2 12:18:02 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 12:18:10 > "" 12:18:11 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 12:18:14 :( 12:18:20 Unicode character names are always so... Unicodey. U+27C1 WHITE TRIANGLE CONTAINING SMALL WHITE TRIANGLE. 12:18:54 fizzie: That looks like a small white circle to me. :-( 12:21:10 ) (0.5&* @: (] + 2&%))^:(_) 4 12:21:10 FireFly: 1.41421 12:21:21 Hm 12:21:26 > sqrt 2 12:21:28 1.4142135623730951 12:21:34 !haskell main = putStrLn $ let bläh = 42 in bläh 12:21:37 runghc: : hGetContents: invalid argument (invalid byte sequence) 12:21:41 EgoBot: You're equally silly. :/ 12:22:34 * Sgeo understands a little of what FireFly did 12:22:48 It uses some sqrt approximation algorithm I guess 12:22:58 That ^:(_) means repeat until fixed point 12:23:04 It's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methods_of_computing_square_roots#Babylonian_method 12:23:25 (] + 2&%) is essentially \x -> x + 2/x 12:23:32 It repeatedly does this: Adds argument to.... I knew that 12:24:12 Although, couldn't you have used a ... not a fork, the other one 12:24:17 ) (0.5&* @: ( + 2&%))^:(_) 4 12:24:18 Sgeo: 1.41421 12:24:20 hook? 12:24:21 :p 12:24:24 yes 12:24:24 Probably, but I forgot how they worked 12:24:34 So I added a ] to be sure 12:25:04 Hm, (f g) y = y f (g y) I guess 12:25:06 So yeah, that'd work 12:25:14 ) -: 2 12:25:14 Sgeo: 1 12:25:20 ) (-: @: ( + 2&%))^:(_) 4 12:25:20 Sgeo: 1.41421 12:25:31 `pastelogs patch 12:25:35 ) (-: @: ( + +:))^:(_) 4 12:25:36 Sgeo: _ 12:25:38 ! 12:25:45 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4986 12:25:58 What's doubling again, bluh 12:26:01 Um, that's 2/, not 2* 12:26:11 Oh, derp 12:26:12 or rather, 2%, not 2* :P 12:26:16 `run echo 'main = putStrLn $ show (let (÷) = (/) in 4 ÷ 2)' > /tmp/l.hs && runghc /tmp/l # save us from Unicode problems HackEgo? 12:26:19 `pastelogs hg.*patch 12:26:20 2.0 12:26:24 ) (-: @: ( + +:))^:(_) 4 5 6 12:26:25 Sgeo: _ _ _ 12:26:26 HackEgo: Thank you! 12:26:29 ) (-: @ ( + +:))^:(_) 4 5 6 12:26:32 Sgeo: _ _ _ 12:26:32 :( 12:26:42 ) (-: @ ( + +:))^:(_)"0 4 5 6 12:26:42 Sgeo: |length error 12:26:42 Sgeo: | (-:@(++:))^:(_)"0 4 5 6 12:26:46 ) (-: @ ( + +:))^:(_)"(0) 4 5 6 12:26:46 Sgeo: _ _ _ 12:26:54 Oh, I'm still using the broken one 12:26:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9543 12:26:58 (Maybe there was already a `haskell or something.) 12:26:58 goddammit HackEgo don't quit now, i'm trying to repair you 12:27:12 ) (-: @: ( + 2&%))^:(_) 4 5 6 12:27:12 Sgeo: 1.41421 1.41421 1.41421 12:27:23 Hmm, I don't think I entirely understand @: vs @ 12:27:25 the parameter is the initial guess btw 12:27:32 oh 12:27:45 the hard-coded 2 is the thing you're sqrt-ing 12:27:52 I still greatly simplified it 12:27:55 Yep 12:28:25 Replace composition with a cap ... 12:28:39 ) ([: -: ( + 2&%))^:(_) 4 12:28:40 Sgeo: 1.41421 12:28:59 ) ([:-:+2&%)^:(_) 4 12:29:00 Sgeo: |domain error 12:29:00 Sgeo: | ([:-:+2&%)^:(_)4 12:29:07 buh 12:30:43 > let sqrt' y = fst . fromJust . find (uncurry (==)) . (zip`ap`tail) $ iterate f y where f x = (x + y/x) / 2 in sqrt' 2 12:30:45 1.414213562373095 12:31:08 `run hg diff -r1891:1871 | patch -p1 12:31:10 Almost as short and equally readable 12:31:14 patching file 'bin/?' \ patching file 'bin/?e' \ patching file bin/delquote \ patching file bin/delquotee 12:31:36 It's not *that* bad to read J after you get used to it, IMO 12:31:38 `addquote Testing this bitch 12:31:42 944) Testing this bitch 12:31:46 `delquote 944 12:31:48 But then again, maybe it's not worth getting used to it.. 12:31:51 ​*poof* Testing this bitch 12:32:21 `quote 943 12:32:22 943) I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose 12:32:38 whee! 12:33:01 How did delquote break anyway? 12:33:01 (Jafet messed things up just before HackEgo crashed for days) 12:33:21 That was a very fast answer 12:33:33 yw :P 12:33:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:37:36 1) Tony Hoare severely criticized Ada in his Turing Award lecture, 12:37:37 saying (literally) that the future of mankind was at stake if we were 12:37:37 to use Ada, and that Ada was "doomed to succeed." Who's gonna argue 12:37:37 with Hoare? If he said it, it must be true, right? 12:38:08 do people actually use ada 12:38:41 Hoare said so! 12:38:46 Who's gonna argue with Hoare? 12:39:16 if hoare said you should jump off a cliff would you do it 12:40:01 http://www.adapower.com/index.php?Command=Class&ClassID=Advocacy&CID=39 12:40:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:40:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:40:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:52:04 subtypes remind me a little of newtype except without explicit dealing with the constructor (still not sure about that though) 12:52:14 Explicit casts are needed for them 12:53:02 Blerg, the air is full of wet snow. 12:53:41 Sleet, fizzie. 12:53:56 We call that sleet. 12:54:22 more werewolves time 12:54:29 sludd og snøbyger 12:54:57 Phantom_Hoover: That's a silly word. 12:55:24 That's what everyone else thinks of finnish words! 12:55:41 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130130-so_much_snow.jpg though it doesn't really register on-camera. 12:55:47 Game starting in #wolfgame 12:56:24 `run words --finnish 20 # not silly at all 12:56:28 korvallesiinsä kiinneperia himoitukemmältä hentäville astaan tihaisemmiltako ahduintämää tiensa ahkeampaamallisemme lipusketilasi kustaville ahdentäviertämmä houkuttumaksenemmäs toisimpiamme hallaan kullanne hankaimmille hyyttävinenikoittelevillä levanne lasi 12:56:41 Phantom_Hoover, aww :( 12:56:44 kustaville! 12:56:59 Sgeo, i'm not getting involved in your creepy wolf games! 12:57:35 3 meaningful words in that set AFAICT 12:57:53 `run words --portuguese 20 12:57:55 correal estionis nites vidasterirei esmemos dolarasourizaria vertem abombarbolsa reendalandá apitas autelemos desafá flastes reencatombie frinhado embeijareis infrinhas esqua formelhava engalhar 12:58:03 `run words --hebrew 20 12:58:04 * oerjan wishes vim had a command to go to the matching bracket to the one you just deleted; or alternatively a way to delete two matching brackets _without deleting what's between them 12:58:05 ​סות ואברכי ממבול פרס העוש לנטות ממקוד גחלת נילוף חצמוד להטתברכה דמליה ומרי היתי בשבישרא בתפלג נקין וחט וציאל ומוכר 12:58:24 *has, i don't really _know_ it doesn't 12:58:34 *_without_ 12:58:44 ===oerjan 12:58:46 s/.// 12:58:47 oerjan: surround.vim 12:58:53 `words 12:58:57 dysfore 12:59:00 Deewiant: Kustaville, hallaan, lasi? 12:59:04 fizzie: Yep 12:59:19 oerjan: I.e. AFAIK plain vim doesn't but with that plugin you can do it 12:59:23 shachaf: what? 12:59:35 oerjan: I agree. 13:00:21 `words --canadian-english-insane 20 13:00:23 emsellumit proup machizzlin felladien dochia flambernelo gainvive klat nonucle tumboid priorae ecgoniacean preaniki pastern misdefahda maedialiancialization ster neum previlfuria unrepa 13:00:35 Deewiant: You could argue for "kullanne" to be a dialectal/colloquial form of "kultanne" (in the 'sweetheart' sense), I think. 13:01:01 `words --irish 20 13:01:02 fizzie: I don't think you could, but maybe. 13:01:03 ninde-sín staí jainn raiméin lánchuladh loineorpair bpolaí heirméaróirín leathghéiseac d'amachta tríoga táit scraigh vótáilte scaothúlaíomaith aithirsteipt héachaiscríoga straíche hiosánta staonadar 13:01:20 yeah that pretty much looks like irish 13:02:25 Deewiant: Oh, an also for being a part of the negative present potential tense of "kullata"; hän ei kullanne sitä kirjaa. 13:03:14 fizzie: Ah, true, no argument there. That's a 20% hit rate for the generator then. 13:07:14 And if you allow for given names of people (e.g. by choosing some some quasi-official source of "valid" "Finnish" names), there's also "astaan". (There are 6074 Finnish women named Asta in the national registry, so it's not a particularly rare one; plus it has an entry in the name day calendars.) 13:08:09 Admittedly it does have the wrong case then. 13:35:59 Is it possible to license a license? 13:37:06 Maybe, if you have a license for it? 13:38:34 Imagine something like GPL where you had to share under the same license, but the license itself was proprietary 13:39:30 Oh dear god I'm in 10 IRC channels on 2 servers 13:39:34 This is unexpected 13:41:03 Taneb is approaching irc singularity 13:41:50 Okay, now I'm only in 9 13:41:53 That's a bit nicer 13:47:18 Speaking of which, does anyone happen to know the freenode channel limit offhand? 13:47:34 ISTR that IRCnet had something like 30. 13:47:58 CHANLIMIT=#:120 hokay. 13:48:05 That's a big number. 13:52:32 EFnet CHANLIMIT=&#:20, IRCnet CHANLIMIT=#&!+:21. 13:53:26 "the fly species inhabiting North America, Hawaii, Australia, and Papua New Guinea are separated by vast oceanic expanses and dont have Facebook." 13:54:08 Oh, twenty-one. 14:00:47 -!- noam__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:13 -!- noam__ has joined. 14:02:17 > ord '>' 14:02:19 62 14:03:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:03:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:06:38 ^ord > 14:06:38 62 14:06:41 JUST CHECKING 14:06:54 OKAY 14:07:51 > ord 'ø' 14:07:52 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 14:07:56 ørdjan 14:09:18 ^ord ø 14:09:18 195 184 14:09:26 Oh well. 14:09:39 That don't look right. 14:09:46 ^ord ab 14:09:46 97 98 14:12:35 `ord ø 14:12:36 248 14:12:41 "lets hope there were no "casualties"" <-- there wasn't, but still dammit... 14:12:56 ^ord is very byte-oriented. 14:12:56 105 115 32 118 101 114 121 32 98 121 116 101 45 111 114 105 101 110 116 101 100 46 14:13:15 fungot: Yes, thank you, very helpful. 14:13:15 fizzie: if for some practical program- ming applications. tod consists of tiny dots called pixels. 14:13:18 oerjan: What? 14:13:27 Should I have not done it? 14:13:29 fizzie: you've noticed my hints that we need a utf-8 version, right? 14:13:36 I guesss I could've just let you do it. 14:13:48 What's the "right way to fix" it? 14:13:48 shachaf: well you could have checked if anything _did_ break. 14:13:52 oerjan: You can just use `ord for your newfangled UTF-8s. 14:14:03 shachaf: to prepend the line number (which is also the quote number) 14:14:13 wa`t 14:14:20 `run which ord 14:14:22 ​/hackenv/bin/ord 14:14:26 `cat bin/ord 14:14:27 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$@" | perl -C7 -pe 'chomp; $_ = join(" ", map { ord } split //, $_);' 14:14:45 `ord øho 14:14:46 oerjan: But I don't know sed....................................... 14:14:46 248 104 111 14:14:48 `ord ☃ ♥ ø 14:14:50 9731 32 9829 32 248 14:15:07 shachaf: sad trombone 14:15:13 I bet it's something simple like "prepend the line number". 14:15:16 fizzie: yay! 14:15:23 Just like it is in vim/ex/ed????????????????????????? 14:15:41 shachaf: yep. you may note the name similarity with the last one. 14:16:33 oerjan: For years I thought sed stood for "super ed" 14:17:17 fizzie: wait you rascal you made that just before i asked... 14:17:22 oerjan: Yes, I did. 14:17:34 -!- boily has joined. 14:17:38 `run locale 14:17:39 LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 14:17:50 There's probably some reason why it's en_NZ? 14:18:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:19:07 fizzie: i think Gregor got slightly annoyed with our nagging it should have a properly set locale 14:19:16 `run env LC_MESSAGES=fi_FI.UTF-8 rm /dev/null # they sound so hilariously silly 14:19:17 rm: tiedostoa ”/dev/null” ei voi poistaa: Kirjoitussuojattu tiedostojärjestelmä 14:19:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:20:18 fizzie: is that "rm: impossible de supprimer « /dev/null »: Permission non accordée"? 14:20:33 `run env LC_MESSAGES=nb_NO.UTF-8 rm /dev/null 14:20:34 rm: cannot remove «/dev/null»: Filsystem med kun lesetilgang 14:20:40 That's a nice hybrid. 14:21:05 Or maybe "cannot remove" is Norwegian, who knows. 14:22:19 "cannot remove" is Norwegian, but "cannot" has a meaning close to English's "remove", and "remove" inverts the meaning of the preceding verb, like "cannot". 14:23:17 The Finnish version says "write-protected filesystem", instead of "read-only". 14:27:58 `run env LC_MESSAGES=he_IL.UTF-8 rm /dev/null 14:27:59 rm: cannot remove `/dev/null': Read-only file system 14:28:04 Hmph. 14:33:57 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:34:46 fizzie: no it isn't. 14:37:19 `run env LC_MESSAGES=ja_JP.UTF-8 rm /dev/null 14:37:20 rm: cannot remove `/dev/null': 読み込み専用ファイルシステムです 14:37:28 Seems that it's also Japanese. 14:37:47 A rather curious linguistic phenomenon. 14:37:53 `run env LC_MESSAGES=zh_CN.UTF-8 rm /dev/null 14:37:54 I got `/dev/null' を削除できません: 許可がありません 14:37:54 rm: 无法删除"/dev/null": 只读文件系统 14:40:25 Phantom_Hoover, is your DF mod with the coal online at all? 14:40:40 Er... I don't think so. 14:40:50 Having a bad time with mineral distributions? 14:41:10 Having a bad time being bored, want to go on Dwarf Fortress 14:41:21 So, yes 14:41:38 I guess I can paste most of the relevant files. 14:42:37 http://sprunge.us/DZBh is inorganic_stone_mineral.txt 14:43:03 http://sprunge.us/MjgN is reaction_smelter.txt 14:43:18 http://sprunge.us/KDLH is entity_default.txt 14:43:28 That should do it. 14:44:52 Thanks 14:46:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:46:41 -!- augur has joined. 14:48:18 -!- augur_ has joined. 14:48:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:52:41 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:59:32 I hate absolutely everyone in #wolfgame 14:59:38 They can all suck a burning match 14:59:50 How's Ada going? 15:00:05 Stop h8in', start learnin'. 15:00:07 Ada is on the back-burner due to my mafia addiction 15:00:39 why are you learning ada Sgeo 15:00:58 Phantom_Hoover: because it's "the cool language to" learn?? 15:02:04 Phantom_Hoover, because shachaf told me to 15:02:43 Sgeo: if you're into ada, may I suggest you VHDL? 15:02:55 why on earth would you listen to anything shachaf tells you 15:03:06 he's untrustworthy! 15:03:26 The ... marketing around Ada is interesting at least. 15:03:34 Phantom_Hoover: I thought Sgeo could use some guidance. 15:03:56 shachaf don't do that... it's unethical... 15:04:33 Which part? 15:04:47 making sgeo do stupid things because he doesn't know any better 15:05:10 If Ada is so stupid, then why do people in #ada say it's good? 15:05:33 they're like sgeo! 15:05:51 There ARE language channels where the people in them don't claim their language is good. 15:05:53 Aimless and in need of guidance? 15:05:55 ##php 15:06:23 shachaf, aimless and in need of guidance by someone who isn't you! 15:06:43 Phantom_Hoover: I was hoping they could all guide each other for a bit. 15:06:51 And maybe Sgeo could go be guided there. 15:07:44 But you know what they say, the blind can't lead an elephant into a glass house.. 15:10:10 Sgeo: Did you install GNAT yet? 15:10:16 Not yet 15:10:53 It's in APT, you know. 15:11:25 Phantom_Hoover: After Ada I'm thinking I'll have him learn some MMIX assembly. 15:11:31 That's actually useful! 15:14:54 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:15:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:16:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:17:14 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 15:20:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:22:38 incidentally, fuck the cross product 15:23:03 What's the matter with cross products? 15:24:06 they're too damn chiral 15:24:08 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:24:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: reilraE). 15:26:09 Phantom_Hoover: do you love monoids 15:26:38 i have no strong opinions on them 15:27:03 i love monoids 15:27:05 they are so easy 15:27:28 -!- augur has joined. 15:29:05 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:37:30 Ok, I apparently can get very mean sometimes 15:37:42 I don't show it here, but I just said, in someone's channel 15:37:47 So, if this channel isn't supposed to have fools, why are you here? 15:39:12 You would never say that in here. 15:39:17 Everyone in #esoteric is a fool. 15:40:52 I ain't no fool! 15:41:09 (at least, not your regular, plebeian kind of fool.) 15:42:02 @wn fool 15:42:02 *** "fool" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 15:42:03 fool 15:42:03 n 1: a person who lacks good judgment [syn: {fool}, {sap}, 15:42:03 {saphead}, {muggins}, {tomfool}] 15:42:03 2: a person who is gullible and easy to take advantage of [syn: 15:42:04 [15 @more lines] 15:42:11 @more 15:42:12 {chump}, {fool}, {gull}, {mark}, {patsy}, {fall guy}, 15:42:12 {sucker}, {soft touch}, {mug}] 15:42:12 3: a professional clown employed to entertain a king or nobleman 15:42:14 in the Middle Ages [syn: {jester}, {fool}, {motley fool}] 15:42:17 v 1: make a fool or dupe of [syn: {fool}, {gull}, {befool}] 15:42:18 [10 @more lines] 15:42:22 boily: You think you have good judgment? 15:42:25 @more 15:42:25 2: spend frivolously and unwisely; "Fritter away one's 15:42:25 inheritance" [syn: {fritter}, {frivol away}, {dissipate}, 15:42:25 {shoot}, {fritter away}, {fool}, {fool away}] 15:42:26 3: fool or hoax; "The immigrant was duped because he trusted 15:42:28 everyone"; "You can't fool me!" [syn: {gull}, {dupe}, 15:42:30 [5 @more lines] 15:42:34 is this necessary 15:42:41 hi elliott 15:43:27 see, I need paragraphs of explanations to make me realise my foolness! 15:44:47 Foolsub and wisdom. 15:45:23 @more 15:45:23 {slang}, {befool}, {cod}, {fool}, {put on}, {take in}, {put 15:45:23 one over}, {put one across}] 15:45:23 4: indulge in horseplay; "Enough horsing around--let's get back 15:45:23 to work!"; "The bored children were fooling about" [syn: 15:45:23 {horse around}, {arse around}, {fool around}, {fool}] 15:48:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:56:17 There's probably some reason why it's en_NZ? // Are you not satisfied, you antikiwi? 15:56:31 hi Gregor 15:56:40 `wehlcohme Gregor 15:56:42 Grehgohr: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 15:57:17 -!- Gregor has changed nick to TwilightSpockle. 16:02:58 `run ls bin/*h*h* 16:02:59 bin/?hh \ bin/wehlcohme 16:03:02 `run ls bin/*h* 16:03:03 bin/h \ bin/?h \ bin/h! \ bin/hatesgeo \ bin/?hh \ bin/quachaf \ bin/searchlog \ bin/show \ bin/unh \ bin/wehlcohme 16:06:48 TwilightSpockle: spockle? 16:07:14 It is a traditional Vulcopony name. 16:07:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:10:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:14:23 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 16:16:12 `hatesgeo 16:16:43 No output. 16:18:03 `hate 16:18:04 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hate: not found 16:18:08 don't hate 16:18:18 `paste bin/hatesgeo 16:18:20 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/hatesgeo 16:18:41 help 16:25:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:31:22 don't help 16:33:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 16:57:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:59:39 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:04:30 Phantom_Hoover, what's so terrible about Ada? 17:04:55 1.6. Release notes for version 7.6.2 17:04:55 The 7.6.2 release is a bugfix release. The changes relative to 7.6.1 are listed below. 17:04:58 1.6.1. GHC 17:05:00 A long-standing typechecker bug which allowed unsafeCoerce to be written has been fixed. 17:05:03 thank's 17:06:31 elliott: DeriveFoo isn't fixed. :-( 17:06:49 "have fun with ur handwritten instances!!" 17:08:37 elliott, help I can't tell if shachaf is trying to torture me when he tells me to learn Ada 17:08:54 Sgeo: I think it would be better for everyone involved if you learned it. 17:09:16 I keep reading that it's "large". Are you saying that because it would take a while? 17:09:32 Although that's not going to stop me from talking about it, so how does it help? 17:09:37 Eh, is it that large? 17:09:48 Don't know, just read rumors 17:10:05 You should learn it and find out. 17:31:45 "I OFTEN GET ANGRY WHEN WRITING CODE IN THIS LANGUAGE" 17:31:49 Ada much more than C# 17:38:39 The Ada people say it's highly imperative. Why would I look twice at this language? 17:40:02 Sgeo: You haven't given it a fair chance. 17:40:26 Try reading about the language instead of what about what people say about the language. 17:40:45 I'm doing both 17:41:12 What's another language that lets you do things like define a type for a range of integers? 17:41:33 Any dependently typed language? 17:42:30 -!- carado has joined. 17:42:39 http://i.imgur.com/N60FT3A.png 17:43:07 Sgeo: What actual real-world-usable languages? 17:47:21 Hmm. Haskell is about as run-time-inflexible as Ada, and I like Haskell a lot except for that. So why Ada when I have Haskell> 17:47:22 ? 17:47:44 Ada is totally lacking in the two things that I regret not having when writing Haskell. 17:48:23 what are those 17:48:29 Congratulations, you are the first person in history to compare Ada to Haskell. 17:48:32 What about things like precise control over memory layout? 17:48:33 and also what does "run-time-inflexible" mean 17:48:43 Adskell, the ad-funded "freemium" version of Haskell. 17:49:21 Easy-to-use macros and easy to change the program as it runs. I am aware of Template Haskell and that it's considered annoying to use, and that there are some libraries for plugin-like stuff 17:50:57 macros aren't runtime... 17:51:47 "change the program as it runs" is too ambiguous to really respond to, but it seems to be either a trivial property (i.e. exhibiting dynamic behaviour in general) or something related solely to a runtime rather than a language 17:58:50 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:59:41 oh pick a language already 17:59:55 I try 18:00:03 imo ada 18:00:13 spend your time learning about things other than languages 18:00:28 kmc, why? Other things are boring 18:00:32 you're wrong 18:00:58 Languages are interesting but the thing you're doing probably won't give you much of the benefits of that. 18:01:09 And also other things are more interesting than languages. 18:01:55 talking to yourself about whether Ada is better than Factor is not interesting 18:01:58 not for the rest of us anyway 18:02:39 kmc: um it's clojure 18:03:02 Sgeo: out of curiosity, what was the last program you wrote for a reason not motivated by the language you were using 18:03:05 and what language did you use 18:03:41 Do programming competitions count? 18:03:45 yeah 18:03:47 I used Python for one problem Haskell for the other 18:03:52 cool 18:03:58 were they interesting problems? 18:04:21 Eh. Somewhat 18:04:35 I think I actually understand how to parse parentheses now, as in, a good understanding 18:04:45 ...well, I still need recursion 18:06:27 There was also a bot I wrote for another channel last year but the reasoning behind my choice of language (Tcl) was because it was the language I was interested in 18:07:52 i'm with Sgeo, languages are more interesting than actual programming. that shit sucks. 18:08:09 Sgeo: Stop that crap, choose task then choose language appropriate for task and start code. 18:08:49 although i do hate it less now that i do it regularly-ish 18:09:13 perhaps i will relearn to love it eventually? 18:11:30 it always seems strange and sad when programmers describe to me their experience primarily in terms of what languages they know 18:11:44 it's like a carpenter bragging about all the different tools in their shop, rather than what they've built 18:11:55 major mark against in an interview, imo 18:12:32 :/ 18:12:55 * Sgeo is totally screwed wrt. that interview 18:14:32 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:14:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:14:50 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:14:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:20:40 -!- azaq23 has joined. 18:20:49 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:21:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:21:06 Hello 18:21:10 -!- azaq23 has joined. 18:21:28 -!- Bike has joined. 18:22:03 >let map mар maр = mар : map mар maр; mаp mар = map mар mар in mаp "map" 18:22:12 > let map mар maр = mар : map mар maр; mаp mар = map mар mар in mаp "map" 18:22:12 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 18:22:14 kmc: would it be equally bad to descibe one's experience in terms of what paradigms one has experience with? 18:22:32 maybe 18:22:38 i'd still rather hear about what you've actually done 18:22:40 Damn ;_; 18:22:52 and will ask questions about that 18:22:58 though i ask questions about languages as well 18:23:14 -!- AnotherTest has left. 18:23:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:23:42 I could answer that I have tonnes of incomplete toy projects, but I'm not sure if that'd help me 18:23:59 do you have course work or something? 18:24:15 almost everyone who has completed interesting projects also has many incomplete or abandoned projects 18:24:28 if somebody claims to know a language / paradigm but can't explain anything substantial they've done in that language / paradigm, it casts doubt on the original claim 18:24:39 Well, yes, but those are less interesting than the incomplete toy projects 18:24:57 don't get me wrong, it's important to know a variety of tools and understand their strengths and weaknesses 18:25:09 it's just, i want to know what you can do with those tools as well 18:25:19 Yeah, fair, that makes sense 18:25:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:26:03 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 18:26:06 and yeah, it will differ between experienced and inexperienced candidates 18:26:37 talking about incomplete toy projects is totally fair game imo 18:26:45 -!- Bike has joined. 18:26:54 kmc: i know at least 500 languages, please hire me to work on that silly irc clone thing 18:26:57 ty 18:27:09 elliott: be honest, how many of them are brainfuck derivatives 18:27:12 I don't think esolangs count 18:27:18 kmc: no more than 432 18:27:24 ok maybe 433 18:27:33 i request a modest salary of $money / month 18:28:06 $monqy/month is better 18:28:25 $texas 18:32:29 " major mark against in an interview, imo" i do agree that if you want to become a programmer, obviously you should like programming more than languages. and perhaps Sgeo does want that. 18:33:51 rather random thing to quote but why not. 18:33:56 there's also the fact that people will, for example, say "I know JavaScript" when what they mean is "I have experience with frontend web development" 18:34:21 and they'll talk about advantages / disadvantages of "JavaScript" but they're really talking about their experience with the web as an applications platform 18:35:26 likewise if you say you know AVR assembly, then we can probably chat about digital logic and realtime programming under space constraints etc 18:35:30 but it's not really about the language 18:36:28 i have extensive experience in frontend web development with Caterwaul 18:37:21 i have expensive experience with `dd` and partition tables 18:39:13 I remember the good old days when I thought boot sector = MBR = booty-thingy, whatever, man, and I wanted to switch from the Windows bootloader to GRUB, so I did dd if=/dev/hda4 of/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 18:39:21 i have extensive experience in the operation and typical maintenance of the human body 18:39:26 Therefore make me a doctor. 18:39:28 I made a backup in my home directory! 18:39:41 That took a while to get out of. 18:39:47 i am a programmer and therefore a genius in every field 18:39:48 shachaf: haha 18:39:57 i did some things like that too, strangely I believe some of them worked 18:40:20 for a while I had a dual boot system where NTLDR was the primary bootloader 18:40:38 Yep, that's what I had. 18:40:42 With Windows 2000, I think. 18:40:44 i think this involved dd'ing the first 512 bytes of my Linux partition (containing LILO stage 1) and putting that in C:\ 18:40:57 yeah me too 18:40:58 Right! I remember that. 18:41:03 life got so much simpler when I ditched windows :) 18:41:21 To be fair, the same goes for LILO. 18:41:26 I remember that too. 18:41:32 shachaf: what goes? 18:41:42 Life getting simpler when you ditch it. 18:42:07 Flagged Arch's ghc package as out of date 18:42:11 i'm not sure about that 18:42:14 My work is done 18:42:17 LILO was fine :) 18:42:24 does the job 18:42:24 simple 18:42:27 kmc: I use syslinux now 18:42:31 Remember having to update the boot sector on every kernel update? 18:42:34 you had to remember to run 'lilo' 18:42:45 yeah, not a big deal imo 18:43:03 syslinux is good 18:43:14 Simple and convienient 18:43:25 shachaf: now i have to run update-initramfs after ever kernel update instead ;P 18:43:31 (except not usually, because debian does it for me) 18:44:17 Bah, LOADLIN.EXE. 18:44:20 yes 18:44:32 before NTLDR i had a dual boot setup with Win98 and LOADLIN and an AUTOEXE.BAT "boot" menu 18:44:36 Simplest and convenientest. 18:44:38 AUTOEXEC.BAT i mean 18:45:06 running Linux on 68k macs was similar 18:45:14 @ simplifies things. 18:45:30 you would boot into OS 7 and run this "Penguin" app and your screen would go all crazy as it loads the kernel all over the framebuffer and then poof it's linux 18:45:53 I did MkLinux on my PPC Performa, it was really fiddly. 18:45:56 It's "System 7", kmc!! 18:46:01 kmc: I never got that working. 18:46:02 i bought a bunch of 68k macs from my school for $1 each 18:46:14 Except for 7.6 after. 18:46:15 most of them had the 68LC040 chip though 18:46:20 I was using a $25 yard sale something. 18:46:23 Also I think the early ones were System Software 7? 18:46:26 which has an erratum that breaks FPU emulation 18:46:34 so it couldn't run most binary linux distros :/ 18:47:30 I think I had 7.5.3 on the Performa. 18:47:33 Hmm, I don't remember what this was. 18:47:40 Yes, Performa. That name sounds familiar. 18:48:11 > let map mар maр = mар : map mар maр; mаp mар = map mар mар in mаp "map" 18:48:11 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 18:48:23 Damn you lambdabot 18:48:47 In ghci it's an infinite list of "map" 18:48:51 The low-numbered Performas were 68k things; the four-digit ones were PPC. 18:48:54 > let map map = map in let map map = map in map map map "map" 18:48:55 "map" 18:50:53 PowerPC was the future. 18:51:25 why are there two lets there 18:51:58 > let map map = map map map in let in let map map = map in map map "map" 18:52:00 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 18:52:00 t2 = t1 -> t2 -> t0Occ... 18:52:04 Ah well. 18:52:09 Bears. http://i.imgur.com/ZJPxIpq.gif 18:52:44 ion: that's the best 18:53:14 i want a bears :( 18:53:32 regarding bear-proof trash cans: "There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists" 18:55:36 * shachaf is tired 18:56:48 kmc: hah 18:56:49 > let map map = map in map map map "map" 18:56:51 "map" 18:57:19 > let map in = map in map map map "map" 18:57:20 :1:9: parse error on input `in' 18:57:29 > let map pam = map in map map map "map" 18:57:31 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t1 = t0 -> t1 18:57:37 weak 18:57:44 @ty let a x = (x,x); b = a . a; c = b . b; d = c . c; e = d . d; f = e . e in f 18:57:58 help 18:57:59 thread killed 18:58:08 @ty let a x = (x,x); b = a . a; c = b . b; d = c . c; e = d . d in e 18:58:17 is this some billion laughs thing 18:58:25 Pretty much. 18:58:27 thread killed 18:58:29 @ty let a x = (x,x); b = a . a; c = b . b; d = c . c in d 18:58:37 t -> ((((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 18:58:38 t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))))), ((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 18:58:38 t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 18:58:38 t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))))), (((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 18:58:38 t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))))), ((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), 18:58:40 (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 18:58:41 t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))))))) 18:58:47 I love it. 18:59:13 I like how typechecking-as-security is useless because it's too slow. :( 18:59:47 elliott: THE FATAL FLAW IN @ 19:00:43 @ty let (@) x = (.) x x in let a x = (x,x) in (@) a a a a 19:00:49 parse error on input `@' 19:00:53 @ is syntax 19:00:56 no! 19:01:18 @ty let fuck everything = everything . everything in let shit fuck = (fuck,fuck) in fuck fuck fuck shit 19:01:21 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = (a0, a0) 19:01:22 Expected type: a0 -> a0 19:01:22 Actual type: a0 -> (a0, a0) 19:01:30 > "map" == "mар" 19:01:30 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 19:02:05 k i'm actually not sure what i did wrong there 19:02:47 The types are the problem. 19:03:05 Bike: You violated the occurs check!! 19:03:12 thx 19:03:40 @ty let f g = g . g in f 19:03:48 (a -> a) -> a -> a 19:03:50 See? 19:04:18 > "map" == "mар" 19:04:18 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 19:04:25 * FreeFull smacks lambdabot and mueval 19:04:42 @ty let shit fuck = (fuck,fuck) in fuck everything = everything . everything in fuck fuck fuck shit 19:04:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:05:03 thread killed 19:05:10 wow, ty really is slow 19:05:13 @ty let shit fuck = (fuck,fuck) in fuck everything = everything . everything in fuck fuck shit 19:05:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:05:24 lambdabot is being really slow right now 19:05:30 thread killed 19:05:31 Bike: this is an "infamous" bad case for hindley-milner in general 19:05:34 double-exponential, I think 19:05:41 oh right i remember that now 19:05:46 is there any way around it? 19:05:51 other than the classic "why are you doing that" 19:06:02 "stop hitting yourself" 19:06:05 right 19:06:08 > 1 19:06:13 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:06:19 "the infamous double exponential case" 19:06:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 19:06:23 hee 19:06:24 well you can set arbitrary limits on type inference 19:06:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:06:40 @yarrbi trarry 19:06:40 Ahoy mateys 19:06:42 probably there are less expressive algorithms which are just, like, exponential at worst 19:06:47 and also a pain to use because they're less expressive 19:07:19 they might also be slower in non-pathological cases 19:07:36 > 1 19:07:40 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:07:43 What 19:07:56 I don't know but it's Jafet's fault. 19:08:22 Anyway maybe I'll try to sleep for a bit? 19:08:50 good luck 19:09:57 > 1 19:10:03 mueval: ExitFailure 1 19:10:03 mueval: Prelude.undefined 19:10:20 who borked lambdabot? 19:10:41 ) 1 + 1 19:10:42 shachaf: 2 19:11:45 ) pi 19:11:46 boily: |value error: pi 19:12:13 ) let 2 = 3 in 2 + 2 19:12:13 boily: |value error: in 19:12:13 boily: | let 2=3 in 2+2 19:12:23 ) exp 5 19:12:23 boily: |value error: exp 19:12:23 boily: | exp 5 19:12:25 ) 2 = 3 19:12:25 shachaf: 0 19:12:29 ) exp(5) 19:12:29 boily: |value error: exp 19:12:30 boily: | exp(5) 19:12:30 ) 2 := 3 19:12:30 shachaf: |domain error 19:12:30 shachaf: | 2 :=3 19:12:40 ) o 1 19:12:41 Bike: |value error: o 19:12:41 Bike: | o 1 19:12:48 ) o. 1 19:12:48 Bike: 3.14159 19:12:56 ) i. 10000000000000000000000 19:12:56 shachaf: |domain error 19:12:56 shachaf: | i.1e22 19:12:59 no. oh no you didn't. 19:13:10 there's a J bot here now? 19:13:17 welcome to the future, boily 19:13:17 what is jconn supposed to be accomplishing 19:13:23 I can't wait until we get an Ada bot. 19:13:37 shachaf: i'll write an Eiffel bot okay 19:13:40 I'd fall off my chair in astonishment, but then I'd probably disturb my colleagues. 19:13:41 ) (+%#) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 19:13:42 elliott: 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1 19:13:45 can it be a Sgeolang bot 19:13:47 ) (+/%#) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 19:13:48 elliott: 5.5 19:13:52 ) +/%# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 19:13:52 elliott: 0.1 19:13:59 good, I still remember how it all works, roughly 19:13:59 elliott: mind your language...................... 19:14:23 shachaf: wait wait, i'll write a algol 68 bot! 19:14:40 i'm going to imagine that, unbeknownst to the channel, elliott has spent ten years in the financial industry programming j 19:14:49 quintopia: That was going to be my next language for Sgeo. 19:14:59 :D 19:15:02 quintopia: imo algol w 19:15:14 algol ω 19:15:25 algoljack just ate him 19:15:48 -!- monqy has joined. 19:15:57 Bike: they use K a lot more in finance, AIUI 19:16:11 i don't even know anything about k 19:16:14 Bike: Algol W isn't wirth the trouble. 19:16:19 Bike: I admit hiring a 7 year old to program finance in J would make an utterly fantastic story 19:16:19 is that the one that's all "what's this OOP business" 19:16:25 yes, yes it would 19:17:21 Bike: K is like J except different 19:17:30 "h t h" 19:17:37 ) "h 19:17:37 shachaf: "h 19:17:40 ) "h t h" 19:17:41 shachaf: |syntax error 19:17:41 shachaf: | "h t h" 19:17:45 ) "h + "h 19:17:45 shachaf: |syntax error 19:17:45 shachaf: | "h+"h 19:17:48 help 19:20:19 ) 19:20:41 ) . 4 5 $ 50 19:20:42 boily: |syntax error 19:20:42 boily: | .4 5$50 19:20:52 ) ?. 4 5 $ 50 19:20:52 boily: 46 5 29 2 4 19:20:52 boily: 39 10 7 10 44 19:20:52 boily: 46 28 13 18 1 19:20:52 boily: 42 28 10 40 12 19:21:01 these are probably the least helpful syntax error notices i've ever seen 19:21:05 -!- derdon has joined. 19:21:29 ) (#:D.1) 1 2 3 19:21:30 elliott: 0 1 19:21:30 elliott: 0 0 19:21:30 elliott: 0 0 19:21:30 elliott: 19:21:30 elliott: 0 0 19:21:30 elliott: ... 19:21:34 ) (#:D.1) 123 19:21:34 elliott: 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 19:21:38 ) (#:D.1) 1235 19:21:39 elliott: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 19:21:42 great function 19:22:49 ) 3 + 3 19:22:50 FreeFull: 6 19:22:52 :O 19:23:07 elliott: what the hell is that 19:24:04 first derivative of antibase two (http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/d402.htm) 19:26:26 * Bike stares 19:28:56 ) #: 2 19:28:57 FreeFull: 1 0 19:29:03 ) #: 139 19:29:04 FreeFull: 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 19:29:09 Isn't that just base 2 19:29:45 Yeah, but D.1 means first derivative. 19:30:32 ) (#:D.1) 124 19:30:32 Bike: 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 19:30:37 right. 19:31:49 not exactly sure what the derivative of #: *is* 19:32:29 ) (+,#:) 1 2 19:32:30 elliott: 1 2 19:32:30 elliott: 0 1 19:32:30 elliott: 1 0 19:32:45 ) (+,#:) 123 19:32:46 elliott: 123 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 19:32:49 right 19:32:57 can anyone access nortti.dy.fi or even ping it? 19:32:59 ) (+;#:) 123 19:32:59 elliott: +---+-------------+ 19:32:59 elliott: |123|1 1 1 1 0 1 1| 19:32:59 elliott: +---+-------------+ 19:33:07 ) (#:;#:D.1) 123 19:33:07 elliott: +-------------+-------------+ 19:33:08 elliott: |1 1 1 1 0 1 1|0 0 0 0 0 0 1| 19:33:08 elliott: +-------------+-------------+ 19:33:09 I guess #: is sort of the identity function, meaning the derivative is 1 19:33:12 ) (#:;#:D.1) 12345 19:33:12 elliott: +---------------------------+---------------------------+ 19:33:12 elliott: |1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1|0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1| 19:33:12 elliott: +---------------------------+---------------------------+ 19:33:27 looks like you get 0 0 0 0 0 ... 1 padded out to how many bits the input is 19:33:32 yeah 19:33:33 makes sense 19:34:22 ) (#:D.2) 12345 19:34:22 Bike: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 19:34:34 sensible 19:34:35 nortti: pings get lost in the great wide black Internet. 19:34:46 ) (#:D.3) 12345 19:34:47 elliott: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 19:34:50 astonishing 19:35:04 ) (#:D._1) 12345 19:35:04 elliott: |nonce error 19:35:04 elliott: | ( #:D._1)12345 19:35:08 aw c'mon 19:35:13 boily: ok. that is what I get too (on the very machine you were trying to ping) 19:35:13 what's wrong with the -1st derivative 19:35:14 wait are there really antiderivatives 19:35:17 tell me there are 19:35:27 well apparently J does not acknowledge their existence 19:35:33 what! 19:35:48 look J, D is a linear operator. that's right a MATRIX. you're good with those right! 19:35:58 so tell me the negative pi'th derivative of #:! 19:36:28 ) (D. b. _1) 19:36:28 elliott: |syntax error 19:36:28 elliott: | ( D.b._1) 19:36:31 ) D. b. _1 19:36:31 elliott: |syntax error 19:36:31 elliott: | D.b._1 19:36:37 does J actually have infinite matrices 19:36:40 i would like that 19:36:40 " wait are there really antiderivatives" in J or in general? just checking 19:36:48 ) f=: D. ; f b. _1 19:36:48 elliott: |syntax error 19:36:48 elliott: | f=: D.;f b._1 19:36:56 imo go fuck yourself j 19:36:57 oklopol: in J. what do you take me for :< 19:37:03 ) - b. _1 19:37:03 elliott: - 19:37:07 ) + b. _1 19:37:07 Bike: a bike. 19:37:07 elliott: + 19:37:10 oh hmm 19:37:16 oh. i guess that makes sense. 19:37:20 yes 19:37:38 ) (D.&1) b. _1 19:37:38 elliott: |syntax error 19:37:38 elliott: | ( D.&1)b._1 19:37:47 ) f=: D.&1 ; f b. _1 19:37:47 elliott: |value error: f 19:37:48 elliott: | f=:D.&1; f b._1 19:37:55 :/ 19:38:20 ) f=:D.&1; (f #:) 123 19:38:21 elliott: |value error: f 19:38:21 elliott: | f=:D.&1; (f#:)123 19:38:26 ) f=.D.&1; (f #:) 123 19:38:26 elliott: |value error: f 19:38:26 elliott: | f=.D.&1; (f#:)123 19:38:30 ) q=.D.&1; (q #:) 123 19:38:30 elliott: |value error: q 19:38:30 elliott: | q=.D.&1; (q#:)123 19:38:40 am i just an idiot 19:38:42 i'm pretty close to getting on to #jsoftware to ask why D isn't a matrix 19:38:43 help 19:38:54 ) ((D.&1) #:) 123 19:38:55 elliott: |syntax error 19:38:55 elliott: | (( D.&1)#:)123 19:38:58 oh hmm 19:39:14 I guess I have to whip out the stuff for this 19:39:29 ) f:= D.&1 ; f b. _1 19:39:30 Bike: |spelling error 19:39:30 Bike: | f:= D.&1 ; f b. _1 19:39:30 Bike: | ^ 19:39:44 yeah ok i have no damned clue 19:40:17 ) f =: 1 : 'x (u D.1) y'; (f #:) 123 19:40:17 elliott: |value error: f 19:40:17 elliott: | f=:1 :'x (u D.1) y'; (f#:)123 19:40:23 ok i'm getting there 19:41:07 J has complexes right 19:41:16 i wanna see if D is defined for gaussian integers at least 19:41:28 ) f =: 1 : 'x (u D.1) y'; f #: 1 2 3 19:41:28 elliott: |value error: f 19:41:28 elliott: | f=:1 :'x (u D.1) y'; f#:1 2 3 19:41:29 er 19:41:32 ) f =: 1 : 'x (u D.1) y'; #: f 1 2 3 19:41:33 elliott: |value error: f 19:41:33 elliott: | f=:1 :'x (u D.1) y';#: f 1 2 3 19:41:38 ughughugh fuck me 19:41:43 ) f =: 1 : 'x (u D.1) y'; f #: 19:41:43 elliott: |syntax error 19:41:43 elliott: | f=: 1 :'x (u D.1) y';f#: 19:41:46 dijeijeoijeoijefoi 19:41:57 sgeo you're going to break elliott!! 19:42:02 ) hello =: 1 : 'x u y'; 1 2 (hello +) 3 4 19:42:02 elliott: |value error: hello 19:42:02 elliott: | hello=:1 :'x u y';1 2 (hello+)3 4 19:42:06 WAHT ???? 19:42:19 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 19:42:20 oh hmm 19:42:24 ) hello =: 1 : 'x u y' 19:42:24 elliott: |ok 19:42:25 ) hello 19:42:25 elliott: 1 : 'x u y' 19:42:28 aww friend 19:42:32 ) 1 2 (hello +) 3 4 19:42:32 elliott: |syntax error 19:42:32 elliott: | 1 2( hello+)3 4 19:42:37 ) hello + 19:42:37 elliott: |syntax error 19:42:38 elliott: | hello+ 19:42:39 ) + hello 19:42:40 elliott: + (1 : 'x u y') 19:42:44 ) 1 2 (+ hello) 3 4 19:42:44 elliott: |domain error 19:42:44 elliott: | 1 2 (+hello)3 4 19:42:48 ) 1 (+ hello) 3 19:42:48 elliott: |domain error 19:42:49 elliott: | 1 (+hello)3 19:42:50 hm 19:42:51 ) o 19:42:52 oklopol: |value error: o 19:42:53 ) (+ hello) 1 19:42:53 elliott: |value error: x 19:42:53 elliott: | x u y 19:42:59 interesting 19:42:59 ) 0+2 19:43:00 oklopol: 2 19:43:08 ) hello =: 1 : 'u y' 19:43:08 elliott: |ok 19:43:08 ) 0+.0 0 0 0 19:43:09 oklopol: 0 0 0 0 19:43:10 ) (+ hello) 1 19:43:10 elliott: 1 19:43:15 wow i'm good 19:43:23 ) hello =: 1 : '(u D.1) y' 19:43:23 elliott: |ok 19:43:26 ) (#: hello) 123 19:43:26 elliott: 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 19:43:30 yesss 19:43:35 ) hello b. _1 19:43:35 elliott: |syntax error 19:43:35 elliott: | hello b._1 19:43:38 ugh 19:43:54 right I have absolutely no idea how to ask J what it thinks the inverse of (? D. 1) is 19:43:55 i'd say "you can do it!" but i don't know what you're doing and find it slightly frightening 19:43:58 Sgeo: you're my only hope 19:45:39 Bike: have you seen the original J interpreter 19:45:47 http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Essays/Incunabulum 19:46:22 well they managed to make C look like J 19:46:50 my eyes 19:47:36 "good job" 19:47:58 has this ever been submittedt o IOCCC 19:51:06 http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Essays/PianoTuning 19:52:05 nice 19:56:31 wow thats a lot of essays 19:57:26 http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Essays/JforC%20Front%20Cover 19:57:55 best cover i've seen since forth for the atari 19:58:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:58:36 forth on the atari is a good cover 19:59:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:00:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:00:15 -!- augur has joined. 20:00:33 whoah 20:00:37 google image search changed 20:02:23 http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Essays/The%20Art%20of%20Shaving 20:03:21 Try to remember when and why I've wanted this. 20:03:56 Comprehensive Burma Shave billboard collection 20:05:03 wut 20:05:09 Oh 20:05:12 OK, that makes more sense. 20:05:20 I thought it would actually be something related to "the art of shaving" 20:05:35 well the piano tunin one is actually about piano tuning 20:07:28 So is the J software /Essays/ directory like an everything2 niche or what? 20:08:25 ooh i left a literal n in the fueue program 20:09:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:09:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:09:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:10:41 -!- TwilightSpockle has changed nick to Gregor. 20:14:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:18:29 *MWAHAHAHA* 20:19:29 ? 20:19:59 œrjan evily laughing is never a good omen. 20:21:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:25:24 I beg to differ. 20:25:29 It is ALWAYS a good omen. 20:26:18 -!- Gregor has set topic: char*a,b[9999];main(){gets(a=b);while(*a){a+=(b[*a]-=b[a[1]])?3:a[2];}puts(b+1);} | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:31:36 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:32:50 Gregor: is that program supposed to take a single line of input, drop its first character then print the rest? 20:33:02 Nope. 20:33:10 Although that is one possible behavior. 20:33:47 Taneb: um isn't fueue supposed to allow return as whitespace? 20:33:54 `pastelogs fueue 20:34:25 No output. 20:34:44 `pastelogs fueue 20:35:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7500 20:35:28 What constitutes "whitespace" isn't clear from the spec 20:36:07 However, Unicode specifies both LF and CR are whitespace 20:36:14 the C interpreter only allows literal ' ' :( 20:36:29 Then Arc_Koen is the one to complain to. 20:36:51 mind you it _does_ take the program as a command line argument... 20:37:25 I believe my Haskell interpreter allows \n. 20:38:14 Arc_Koen: your fueue interpreters only allow literal ' ' as whitespace (and i suspect the ocaml one doesn't accept even that inside loops) 20:38:30 * oerjan has only tested the C one 20:38:43 and has no idea where to find the haskell one *COUGH* 20:39:22 oerjan, basically, there's one copy of it and it's on this computer. 20:40:09 @tell Arc_Koen your fueue interpreters only allow literal ' ' as whitespace (and i suspect the ocaml one doesn't accept even that inside loops.) this ruins my pretty indentation and is therefore UNACCEPTABLE hth 20:40:09 Consider it noted. 20:40:53 http://www.vandoorn.talktalk.net/esoteric/fueue.hs 20:41:04 The step function is about as ugly as Haskell gets 20:41:53 @tell boily IIRC, lambdabot won't tell stuff to yourself. 20:41:53 You can tell yourself! 20:42:12 Taneb: wow, what the fuck is with that step function 20:42:14 why did yo uwrite it like that 20:42:21 monqy: look at that 20:42:35 elliott, it used to be a lot uglier 20:42:41 amazing 20:43:29 I tried to comment my code, then... didn't 20:43:40 also you misspelled "further" 20:43:46 hm i didn't know about Numeric.Natural 20:44:01 oerjan: it's in semigroups. guess who by 20:44:13 elliott, it's been moved to its own package now 20:44:20 oh right. 20:44:24 "nats" 20:45:28 Taneb: "futher" 20:45:39 and "progam" 20:45:43 oerjan, I have a vague feeling you wrote most of the main function 20:45:51 -!- monqy_ has joined. 20:46:07 quite possible. 20:46:11 monqy_: http://www.vandoorn.talktalk.net/esoteric/fueue.hs look at the step function 20:46:17 12:42:27 monqy: look at that 20:46:30 was just about to 20:46:35 i 20:46:37 yes but then you got disconnected 20:46:40 whaaaaaat is thissssss 20:46:49 -!- monqy has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:46:55 -!- monqy_ has changed nick to monqy. 20:47:06 Someone put some of my code onto Uncyclopedia once. 20:47:10 That's how much I suck as a programmer 20:47:18 -- We store operators which did not have enough operators -- 20:47:20 *operands? 20:47:29 ...yes 20:47:47 this step function hurts 20:47:47 fr operators which did not have enough operators 20:47:57 Look, I had enough difficulty getting it to run correctly. 20:48:12 thats because it's 20:48:13 it 20:48:24 when people sound like fungot quotes, then something important (and / or confusing) is happening. 20:48:25 boily: disable case-switching keys i/ o register you want to set a string) an 65371-67407 ( ff5b-ff7f). only then did the message ?syntax error will occur. 20:50:42 monqy, elliott, anyone else, constructive criticism on how to improve my code would be much appreciated 20:51:06 start over, maybe? 20:51:20 Taneb: hm your interpreter does not run my program correctly, whether or not i put it on one line. (Arc_Koen's C interpreter runs it correctly as one line.) 20:51:20 Bike, that's destructive, not constructive. 20:51:35 i shall modify his C interpreter to accept \n 20:51:39 This may be an old stupid broken version 20:51:41 Hang on 20:51:45 Taneb: ok what i would do is throw away step 20:51:46 and start over 20:51:47 at a certain point i think it's better to just begin fresh 20:52:05 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 20:52:09 pattern synonyms 20:52:18 would help slightly 20:52:24 with some of that syntactic noise 20:52:26 I believe I started over at least twice 20:52:32 but i think a major restructuring is probably needed 20:52:46 like factor out some of the common stuff out 20:54:00 monqy: pattern synonyms aka...... prisms 20:54:05 like 20:54:06 step (viewl -> FPlus :< (viewl -> FNum arg1 :< (viewl -> FNum arg2 :< queue))) = queue |> FNum (arg1 + arg2) <$ put 0 20:54:09 step (viewl -> FPlus :< (viewl -> FNum arg1 :< (viewl -> FCache (viewl -> EmptyL) :< (viewl -> FNum arg2 :< queue)))) = queue |> FNum (arg1 + arg2) <$ put 0 20:54:12 this sort of pattern is pretty common 20:54:13 really tho he has pattern synoynms 20:54:14 since he has view patterns 20:54:18 he's just not utilising them 20:54:27 ye 20:54:42 2 bad view patterns sux 20:54:54 there you go 20:55:41 Taneb: for stuff like that snippet i pasted, since you use that sort of thing everywhere where you check the queue and do that stuff you should make a function that does that for you, then just use that function in all of the cases with stuff like that. at the very least you could use that to clean up your binary operators 20:58:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:58:16 Taneb: and instead of having those crazy nested view patterns you could make a helper-view that views the stuff in the way you want to view them 20:58:49 Taneb: once you apply that sort of thinking to step it might be easier to see what further refactorings you can do since it'll be cleaner &c &c 21:01:32 Okay 21:01:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:02:08 I'm still not sure about the complexity of shortest non occuring sequence :( 21:02:25 alt. rewrite it using lens. lens is cool right 21:06:49 Taneb: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Fueue 21:07:34 :) 21:07:38 oerjan, well done 21:07:54 thank you 21:09:00 also elliott, i know he likes Deadfish interpreters 21:10:15 i do 21:11:43 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:17:33 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 21:28:06 Well, I've significantly shortened the "step" function 21:28:32 i hope you kept the old version 21:28:34 for me to preserve 4eva 21:28:50 It's... still online 21:29:08 I'd make a local copy if you want to keep it that badly 21:32:15 `done 21:32:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: done: not found 21:32:17 *done 21:32:34 whats the new one look like 21:33:50 Still not great 21:34:26 Refresh the old link 21:35:22 thats some interesting function naming 21:35:26 step (viewl -> FPlus :< (viewQueue2 -> Just (FNum arg1, FNum arg2, rest))) = rest |> FNum (arg1 + arg2) <$ put 0 21:35:30 step (viewl -> FMult :< (viewQueue2 -> Just (FNum arg1, FNum arg2, rest))) = rest |> FNum (arg1 * arg2) <$ put 0 21:35:33 step (viewl -> FDiv :< (viewQueue2 -> Just (FNum arg1, FNum arg2, rest))) = rest |> FNum (arg1 `div` arg2) <$ put 0 21:35:36 you can abstract this out 21:35:40 Probably 21:45:53 Taneb: for a start you can make it 21:46:08 step (erm -> (FPlus, x, y, r)) -> r |> FNum (x + y) <$ put 0 21:53:05 Taneb: (I assume you can figure out erm there) 21:53:20 Yes 21:53:37 also you can drop the _ pattern from viewQueue1 there I think 21:53:39 since your patterns are total 21:57:10 It's to appease -Wall 21:58:08 -Wall shouldn't complain since they look completely total to me? 21:58:26 -Wall doesn't know about view patterns 21:59:01 is ghc smart enough not to apply viewl once per pattern in the above? 21:59:19 oerjan: yes 21:59:24 ok 22:01:41 `olist 22:01:43 shachaf oerjan 22:02:07 maybe Sgeo should be on that list too 22:02:20 except that's illogical 22:02:23 -!- derdon has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8). 22:02:45 Is olist for when Homestuck doesn't update? 22:02:54 no, it's for when oots does 22:03:19 oh hey awesome 22:03:28 Also my sleep schedule is now messed up beyond repair 22:03:30 So tired... 22:04:03 `run echo ' Sgeo' >>bin/olist 22:04:06 No output. 22:04:15 oerjan: nice try 22:04:22 wat 22:04:25 `olist 22:04:26 shachaf oerjan \ /hackenv/bin/olist: line 2: Sgeo: command not found 22:04:29 oops 22:04:35 f 22:05:16 `run sed -i '1P; s/\n//' bin/olist 22:05:19 No output. 22:05:24 `olist 22:05:25 shachaf oerjan \ shachaf oerjan \ /hackenv/bin/olist: line 3: Sgeo: command not found 22:05:34 wat 22:05:38 "That made it worse" 22:05:42 `revert 22:05:45 Done. 22:05:54 `run sed -i '1N; s/\n//' bin/olist 22:05:58 No output. 22:06:00 `olist 22:06:01 shachaf oerjan Sgeo 22:06:03 yay 22:06:07 :) 22:08:24 what's the olist? 22:08:52 * oerjan swats olsner with his DRY swatter -----### 22:09:12 I'm not repeating anything, swat yourself 22:09:30 why should i, i didn't repeat anything either, although you tried to make me 22:09:42 it was a test of determination 22:09:59 what's oots then? 22:14:41 Order of the Stick, by the way 22:15:15 Wow, the only Fueue Deadfish program doesn't work on any Fueue implementations 22:16:37 technically incorrect. the _other_ Fueue Deadfish program works on the C interpreter at least. it consists simply of removing unnecessary whitespace from the public one. 22:17:29 i haven't tested the ocaml one, since i don't have ocaml handy 22:18:39 The Haskell implementation does the Hello World, Alphabet, and Thue-Morse programs easily 22:18:54 what about the Truth machine? 22:19:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:19:23 if it doesn't work, there might easily be something wrong with input 22:19:39 -!- augur has joined. 22:19:43 Inexplicable parse error 22:19:50 hah 22:20:52 After working out what that was 22:21:01 (bash doesn't like dollar symbols in strings) 22:21:08 It's got a problem with input 22:22:07 Okay, that fixed it 22:24:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:28:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:27 oerjan, refresh the old link? 22:28:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:33:23 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:35:51 Yay I'm vaguely awake 22:35:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:35:56 Is J not doing derivatives? 22:36:05 erm, antiderivatives 22:36:46 ) 9!:14 '' 22:36:47 Sgeo: j701/2011-01-10/11:25 22:37:27 ) 9!:24 '' 22:37:27 Sgeo: 1 22:40:07 I don't understand D. 22:40:38 ) 9!:D.124 '' 22:40:38 Bike: |syntax error 22:40:38 Bike: | 9!:D.124'' 22:43:12 Why was elliott using help for J 4 22:43:31 ) 9!:D.1 24 '' 22:43:32 Bike: |syntax error 22:43:32 Bike: | 9!:D.1 24'' 22:43:33 i googled j vocabulary i think 22:43:37 awwwww 22:43:43 or what do you mean 22:44:01 elliott, just as in, why you linked to a 402 dictionary 22:44:10 do you mean http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/d402.htm 22:44:13 Yes 22:44:15 perhaps actually click the link 22:44:34 some more J versions: http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/d212.htm http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/d112.htm 22:44:46 oh 22:44:50 :/ 22:45:12 Anyway, "What's the inverse of version" 22:45:29 ) 9 (!:^:_1) 24 '' 22:45:29 Sgeo: |syntax error 22:45:29 Sgeo: | 9( !:^:_1)24'' 22:46:01 )(>:^:_1) 24 22:46:07 ) (>:^:_1) 24 22:46:08 Sgeo: 23 22:46:09 oh duh 22:46:17 !: isn't a verb, is it 22:46:24 what! 22:46:42 ) (9!:24)^:_1 '' 22:46:42 Sgeo: |domain error 22:46:43 Sgeo: | (9!:24)^:_1'' 22:47:10 It's a conjugation 22:47:19 Because it needs to return a verb 22:47:27 a conjugation of what 22:47:31 So (9!:24) is a verb, !: isn't 22:47:37 erm, conjunction 22:48:04 oooookay 22:48:11 ) (9!:24)D.1 '' 22:48:11 Bike: 22:48:20 glad we got that settled. 22:52:55 ) 22:53:48 ) 42 22:53:49 oerjan: 42 22:54:20 ) :[):] 22:54:20 oerjan: |spelling error 22:54:20 oerjan: | :[):] 22:54:20 oerjan: | ^ 22:54:35 shockingly not a superset of fueue 22:55:44 hm. i dream of a language based around overlapping brackets 22:55:54 [like(this]see) 22:56:22 ) #:t.3 22:56:22 Bike: |domain error 22:56:22 Bike: | #:t.3 22:56:56 ) 9! 22:56:56 oerjan: |syntax error 22:56:57 oerjan: | 9! 22:57:05 ) !9 22:57:05 oerjan: 362880 22:57:06 elliott, ~ATH ? 22:57:37 um i hear that's not a real language. i think taneb told me. 22:57:44 or was it you 22:57:49 ) (#:D.3) 123 22:57:49 Bike: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 22:57:56 ) (#:t.1) 22:57:56 Bike: |domain error 22:57:57 Bike: | ( #:t.1) 22:58:17 this is crap 22:58:35 The domain of the adverb t. is the same as the left domain of the derivative D. . 22:58:55 so shouldn't it be working 22:59:06 ) < < < < < < < < "j isn't crap!!!!" 22:59:06 monqy: |open quote 22:59:06 monqy: | < < < < < < < < "j isn't crap!!!!" 22:59:06 monqy: | ^ 22:59:09 :( 22:59:16 i forgot how to do quotes 22:59:18 rip: me 22:59:30 ) < < < < < < < < "j isn't crap!!! 22:59:31 Bike: |open quote 22:59:31 ) < < < < < < < < 'j isn''t crap!!!!' 22:59:31 Bike: | < < < < < < < < "j isn't crap!!! 22:59:31 Bike: | ^ 22:59:31 Sgeo: +------------------------------+ 22:59:31 Sgeo: |+----------------------------+| 22:59:31 Sgeo: ||+--------------------------+|| 22:59:31 Sgeo: |||+------------------------+||| 22:59:32 Sgeo: ||||+----------------------+|||| 22:59:32 Sgeo: ... 22:59:40 oh come on you can do better than that j 22:59:49 good 22:59:59 ) < < < 'monqy 22:59:59 Bike: |open quote 22:59:59 Bike: | < < < 'monqy 22:59:59 Bike: | ^ 23:00:01 ) < < < 'monqy' 23:00:01 Bike: +---------+ 23:00:02 Bike: |+-------+| 23:00:02 Bike: ||+-----+|| 23:00:02 Bike: |||monqy||| 23:00:02 Bike: ||+-----+|| 23:00:02 Bike: ... 23:00:04 ) i. 10 1 23:00:05 Sgeo: 0 23:00:05 Sgeo: 1 23:00:05 Sgeo: 2 23:00:05 Sgeo: 3 23:00:05 Sgeo: 4 23:00:05 Sgeo: ... 23:00:12 monqy why don't you fit in the box? 23:00:17 is that what i'm supposed to ask you? 23:00:28 no 23:00:35 you're not supposed to ask anyone that 23:00:38 you're not supposed to ask that 23:00:44 ok what am i supposed to ask you then 23:00:47 idk 23:00:53 dammit 23:00:56 ) < < 'asking' 23:00:56 Bike: +--------+ 23:00:56 Bike: |+------+| 23:00:56 Bike: ||asking|| 23:00:56 Bike: |+------+| 23:00:56 Bike: +--------+ 23:01:15 ) (<^:100) 'hi' 23:01:15 Sgeo: +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 23:01:16 Sgeo: |+------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+| 23:01:16 Sgeo: ||+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+|| 23:01:16 Sgeo: |||+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+||| 23:01:21 -!- noam__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:01:23 Sgeo: ||||+------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+|||| 23:01:23 Sgeo: ... 23:01:30 i concur 23:01:39 wtf 23:01:44 -!- noam__ has joined. 23:01:52 ) (<^:1000) 'x' 23:01:56 i am disappoint at the lack of box drawing characters 23:02:10 hm 23:02:18 sgeo how do we redefine the box printing 23:02:32 Um. At least locally there's a thing to switch it 23:02:46 Any system related stuff is likely in here http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help701/dictionary/xmain.htm 23:03:01 ) 'are you still there' 23:03:12 elliott......... 23:03:40 good job me 23:03:42 ñó í þhíñœ åé ßhóúøð bé åëíþíñg þhé öëíñþéë fúñ©þíóñß éëbß° íñ Ï ðíëé©þøüç §géó 23:03:46 i blame sgeo for bringing that bot in here 23:03:51 ) 9!:12 '' 23:03:57 so is it frozen in jsoftware too 23:04:49 :t (^:) 23:04:51 Not in scope: `^:' 23:04:51 Perhaps you meant one of these: 23:04:51 `^' (imported from Prelude), `^^' (imported from Prelude), 23:04:59 It is frozen in jsoftware 23:05:04 gj 23:05:10 hex edit the binary 23:05:11 every day 23:05:14 boxes are hard man 23:05:40 There is a thing for execution time limit 23:05:57 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:06:11 rip 23:06:30 good time limit 23:06:45 did i do a bad thing 23:06:46 my local jconsole uses box drawing chars 23:06:53 jealous???????? 23:07:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:07:43 @let (^:) fn 0 = id; (^:) fn n = fn (fn ^: (n-1)) 23:07:46 Defined. 23:07:54 what 23:07:57 monqy: yes 23:08:01 Bike: um... 23:08:03 :t (^:) 23:08:05 (Eq a, Num a) => ((a1 -> a1) -> a1 -> a1) -> a -> a1 -> a1 23:08:10 thats not quite right 23:08:14 ok good 23:08:16 @undefine 23:08:22 for a second i thought i did it right and was confused 23:08:29 @let _ ^: 0 = id; f ^: n = f . (f ^: (n-1)) 23:08:30 Defined. 23:08:32 :t (^:) 23:08:33 (Eq a, Num a) => (a1 -> a1) -> a -> a1 -> a1 23:08:56 Can it do infinity? 23:09:06 yes 23:09:07 :t fix 23:09:09 (a -> a) -> a 23:09:29 > (((+) 1) ^: 1000) 9 23:09:32 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:09:38 hooray! 23:09:46 ((+) 1) can also be written (1 +) 23:09:49 :t Succ 23:09:50 lambdabot knows where it's at 23:09:51 Not in scope: data constructor `Succ' 23:09:52 :t S 23:09:54 Not in scope: data constructor `S' 23:09:55 :t succ 23:09:56 Enum a => a -> a 23:09:57 eh 23:10:01 :t Just 23:10:01 how can I construct this piece by piece 23:10:03 a -> Maybe a 23:10:04 monqy: i'm trying to get lazy nats 23:10:10 > (Just ^: 1000) 9 23:10:12 oh, lazy nats 23:10:13 :t infinity 23:10:13 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 23:10:13 a10 = Data.Maybe.Maybe... 23:10:15 Not in scope: `infinity' 23:10:19 :t Data.Number.Natural.infinity 23:10:21 Data.Number.Natural.Natural 23:10:29 wait where's the infinite type 23:10:35 > (("hi" ++) ^: Data.Number.Natural.infinity) "end" 23:10:37 Not in scope: `Data.Number.Natural.infinity' 23:10:39 nooooo 23:11:08 @src 23:11:08 src . Display the implementation of a standard function 23:11:12 uh 23:11:13 @litas 23:11:13 Unknown command, try @list 23:11:14 @list 23:11:14 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 23:11:20 shouldn't the type be just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just Just 23:11:33 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/State/L.hs 23:11:41 how do we get the conaturals from this 23:11:53 Just is not a type 23:12:04 there's an Int at the end there. 23:12:11 elliott: something with Mu and Maybe? 23:12:13 Just ... Int is not a type 23:12:19 Maybe you mean Maybe 23:12:22 fine, that 23:12:41 and then monad laws should fold it to Maybe Int anyway 23:12:47 monqy: that has no Num instance tho 23:12:47 :t Just Just Just 9 23:12:49 The function `Just' is applied to three arguments, 23:12:49 but its type `a0 -> Maybe a0' has only one 23:12:49 In the expression: Just Just Just 9 23:12:50 and (^:) needs Num,Eq 23:12:58 Maybe (Maybe Int) contains information that Maybe Int doesn't 23:13:08 man ugh 23:13:13 :t Just (Just (Just 9)) 23:13:15 Num a => Maybe (Maybe (Maybe a)) 23:13:23 elliott: oh right, ugh 23:13:25 :t Just ^: 3 23:13:26 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a10 = Maybe a10 23:13:27 Expected type: a10 -> a10 23:13:27 Actual type: a10 -> Maybe a10 23:13:38 elliott: clearly redefine (^:) 23:13:47 monqy: wow thats cheating friend 23:13:48 it's a crappy definition anyway 23:13:50 You can always join it if it's like Maybe (Maybe a), but that doesn't mean it's a good idea 23:13:54 also seriously what's even going on here 23:14:21 oh i have a silly idea 23:14:24 :t Just . Just . Just 23:14:25 a -> Maybe (Maybe (Maybe a)) 23:14:27 > (("hi" ++) ^: var "x") "end" 23:14:29 "hihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi... 23:14:33 heheheheheheh 23:14:38 thats too silly 23:14:41 what the fuck is that 23:15:01 i prefer my Mu Maybe just because it doesn't use stupid instances 23:15:15 monqy: by way of lacking the instance we need 23:15:19 yes 23:15:40 :t (1 +) ^: 1000 23:15:41 Num a1 => a1 -> a1 23:15:54 :t 1 + 23:15:55 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) 23:15:59 :t (1 +) 23:16:00 Num a => a -> a 23:16:14 oh, wait, now i get it. 23:16:17 :t (^:) 23:16:19 (Eq a, Num a) => (a1 -> a1) -> a -> a1 -> a1 23:16:25 what an oddysey that was 23:16:54 :t (****) 23:16:55 Not in scope: `****' 23:16:55 Perhaps you meant one of these: 23:16:55 `***' (imported from Control.Arrow), 23:17:06 how old is that L.hs 23:17:08 so uh 23:17:15 is there any reason this L.hs has Portal jokes in it 23:17:33 :t cake 23:17:35 [[Char]] 23:17:40 nooooo 23:17:51 > text $ concat cake 23:17:53 is that a portal joke? 23:17:54 One 18.25 ounce package chocolate cake mix.One can prepared coconut pecan f... 23:18:09 also 23:18:13 :t fromChuch 23:18:14 Not in scope: `fromChuch' 23:18:21 huh 23:18:26 15:17:04 how old is that L.hs 23:19:08 since (****) is "a lot like" (^:) 23:19:28 but :t couldn't find it?? 23:19:46 :t (!!) 23:19:47 [a] -> Int -> a 23:20:00 > [1..x] 23:20:02 *Exception: not a number 23:20:09 wow that seems like a really weird way to write it but ok 23:20:12 WEAK 23:22:00 @hoogle (****) 23:22:00 No results found 23:22:32 i dont think its a portal joke????? 23:22:37 i never finished portal tho 23:22:40 i think it's the cake recipe from portal 23:23:00 so a portal reference, but not one of the ones that's been run into the ground 23:23:02 > text $ unlines cake 23:23:05 One 18.25 ounce package chocolate cake mix. 23:23:05 One can prepared coconut pecan... 23:23:08 though I think portal references are cool again 23:23:09 but that's just me 23:23:13 NO 23:23:25 > cake !! 14 23:23:27 "Pull and peel licorice." 23:23:37 > cake !! 20 23:23:39 "Fiberglass surface resins." 23:27:32 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:40:07 -!- impomatic has left. 23:40:08 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 23:46:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:49:04 I suck at being a wolf 23:49:21 ??? 23:49:45 me too, sgeo. me too 23:50:27 fungot: Be a wolf. 23:50:28 fizzie: the details of a line of the first byte of the kernal clall routine is called to update that pointer, changing the character rom at 49152 ( c000). 23:50:55 I didn't know wolves were so interested in programming. 23:51:06 kernal clal 23:51:08 *clall 23:51:13 ^style 23:51:13 Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 23:51:22 ah of course 23:51:50 The "clall" bit might be an OCR mishap, I think some of those books were scanned. 23:52:09 Or maybe it's the actual name of the routine. 23:52:59 Indeed, it seems to be. 23:53:15 (It CLoses ALL files.) 23:53:54 monqy: the "kernal" gives it away 23:54:31 haha 23:54:40 im not familiar with c64 style :( 23:54:42 But there are some actual mishaps, like 0's in place of o's, in regular text. (Unless of course it's from a l33t b00k.) 23:55:26 monqy: the c64 has a thing called a "kernal", sort of like how http has "referers" 23:55:32 fungot: Tell me a little bit more about the character ROM. 23:55:33 fizzie: 50 if a or b is set to 1 and setting the character data table is used as a logical file number here. 23:56:00 fungot: shocking 23:56:00 oerjan: 1) call this routine sets up three windows, and 23:56:33 fungot: ...and? 23:56:34 fizzie: in the 23:56:50 fungot: ...in the what? 23:56:51 fizzie: chrin 804, 61783, 65487 ( decimal) 23:57:11 It's like pulling teeth from a hard-to-pull-teeth-from object. 23:57:48 pulling teeth from a rock 23:57:55 i see you are pulling metaphors 23:59:08 I think I found a channel that may tolerate my constant language blather 23:59:14 what is it 23:59:21 yfl 23:59:33 what's a yfl......... 23:59:38 Your Fucking Language? 23:59:57 You Fancy Languages? 2013-01-31: 00:00:05 "You Fancy Languages? The polyglot programmer hangout." oh nooooo 00:00:06 channel with sgeo and a bunch of bots in it and that's it 00:00:38 no public logging hmmmmm what are you getting up to in there sgeo 00:00:45 i like how this is half people from #haskell 00:00:55 imo this place is less cosy than #esoteric 00:01:01 this is cosy? 00:01:14 did you guys join yfl 00:01:40 i joined yfl 00:01:46 prolly nobody else did 00:01:47 n o i m e a n t # e s o t e r i c 00:01:54 imo #esoteric is p.cosy 00:02:05 yfl seems to have a thing for erlang 00:02:06 any idea why 00:02:39 OOPs 00:02:40 Object Orientation supporting languages. Just to show that there's more to them than just C++ and Java. 00:02:42 There are currently no items in this folder. 00:02:48 rip 00:03:21 guess there's not more to them than just C++ and java 00:03:32 È bella cosí 00:03:46 their fp 'folder' is erlang, sicp, high vs low level languages, erlang, erlang, curry, clojure 00:03:58 140 Characters of Stupid at a Time 00:03:59 I don't use Twitter. For any reason. Here's why. 00:04:08 this is from the guy who wrote that haskell troll (hes in #yfl (remember when he joined here)) 00:04:12 oops, *così 00:04:18 (remember when shachaf scared him off) 00:04:24 Here's a thought, Michael: if you're too fucking lazy to open an account on a well-known web site, I probably don't want your lazy ass working my code. See, I want my contributors to actually think and work on their contributions. If signing up for a web site is too much work for you, chances are complying with coding guidelines, writing proper test cases, etc. is also too much work for you. 00:04:35 So this next asshat, Mark, thinks that people should use tools based on how easy it is for others to access them instead of the project's principals. Shit, here he's talking about one web site over another. Damn, his brain would fucking explode if someone chose not just another web site but a whole different SCM! 00:04:40 Seriously, WTF is it with these Github shitheads? Hipster languages. Hipster web sites. Hipster operating systems. Then talking as if this were rational! 00:04:43 Advantage: G3rtm and sanity. 00:04:52 fucking hipsters god 00:04:56 i think actually punching myself in the face would hurt less than this 00:04:56 damn!!! 00:05:05 So, according to this twerp, making life more difficult for your core developers is "meta-optimising" because it allows lazy assholes to contribute lazy-assed work. Got it. 00:05:10 you know what would hurt less than this? not doing this 00:05:11 So not only is this asshat inconsistent in his belief in meta-optimization, he also somehow thinks that all code is deployed on Linux servers. Apparently the myriad of PCs running Windows out there don't exist in his world. Nor do the Macs running OSX. Nor do the smartphones running iOS or Android. Nor do embedded systems of any kind (despite, you know, the overwhelming majority of software in the world running on those). 00:05:12 hth 00:05:17 elliott: that's verbose, i think he needs more twitter to cut down the length 00:05:17 Just how fucking stupid can you get? 00:05:17 Set: G3rtm and sanity. 00:05:25 As for me? I use unpopular tools in my stuff: unpopular languages, unpopular SCM, unpopular everything, precisely as a filter to get rid of asshats like this Mark Wotton guy and this Michael Klishin guy. They're great hipster filters. 00:05:32 Fuck I wish I'd said that myself. :( 00:05:41 ran out of blog post to quote from 00:05:45 lets find another(?) 00:06:04 -!- Bike has set topic: char*a,b[9999];main(){gets(a=b);while(*a){a+=(b[*a]-=b[a[1]])?3:a[2];}puts(b+1);} | a good hipster filter http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 00:06:33 ugh all these other posts look more boring 00:06:38 I order something custom-made online, it says it'll take five to six weeks. Ten days later, they ship it express (after I only paid for slowmail). Dahell? 00:06:38 as in more boring to quote from 00:09:06 Gregor: It's poisoned and they want to get rid of you ASAP, HTH, HAND. 00:10:06 Ahhhhhh, that explains it. 00:11:19 elliott: so is yfl any good 00:11:43 its very silent 00:15:22 Term of the day: "the curse of dimensionality". (It is something a wicked witch might cast.) 00:15:49 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 00:15:55 the wicked witch of which direction, exactly? 00:16:19 what's a hipster filter? 00:16:47 fungot: are you a hipster? 00:16:48 kmc: foreground 10 background 2 color ( chart,above), and that it performs the reverse of inx, is displayed 00:20:11 oerjan: The wicked witch of the ana or kata, presumably. 00:22:33 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:24:44 aha 00:26:49 now if east/west are wicked, north/south are good, and ana/kata are wicked, it follows for balance that up/down must be good. 00:27:38 is ana/kata a hughesism 00:28:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Howard_Hinton 00:28:26 aha, that makes more sense 00:33:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:42:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:57:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:01:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:24:40 elliott: where is that quote from 01:24:47 also i thought hipsters like things that aren't popular yet 01:24:55 kmc: you mean the really long awful one 01:24:58 are you sure you want to know 01:25:05 nm i googled it 01:26:13 i forgot that 'hipster' is a generic pejorative that can be applied to anyone 01:29:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:43:00 Sgeo: I like this channel already. 01:44:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:48:26 elliott: neither the people tweeting nor the person making fun of them seem to have any good reason to care as much as they do 01:48:48 are you suggesting i would quote anything with any kind of value whatsoever 01:48:52 do you even know me 01:50:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:58:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:04:59 USB wifi adapters are really tiny now 02:05:05 like "barely sticks out of the port" tiny 02:08:34 so i'm giving a lecture tomorrow which includes stuff about different systems being turing complete and therefore equivalently powerful 02:08:47 Ask #esoteric: what are amusing / interesting examples of TC systems? 02:09:29 crabs 02:09:58 seconding bike 02:10:48 pencils 02:10:52 i could bring a bunch of live crabs into lecture 02:11:02 have a digression about marine biology 02:11:08 pass one around the class in a little dish full of water <3 02:11:36 kmc: can I come to your lecture 02:11:42 http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.1749 here's your cite 02:11:45 yes it's in cambridge ma though 02:12:02 Bike: nice 02:12:02 oh and i guess you'd need to cite shannon or whoever to get computers out of gates? w/e 02:12:20 i like the "laboratory models" 02:12:22 fun lab imo 02:12:35 kmc: can you give me a plane ticket 02:12:38 kmc, langton ants? 02:12:41 game of life? 02:12:54 CAs are kind of sticky there 02:13:24 this is the only computer I've seen that has a part labeled "intimidation plate" 02:13:40 I think I need one of those for my computer 02:13:53 hm what's another one though 02:13:59 fucking everything and its mother is turing complete 02:14:04 (parse as you will) 02:14:25 i did. 02:14:52 unrestricted grammars are pretty obvious but they're probably useful pedagogically 02:14:58 to get across the "fucking everything" part 02:26:17 help ttm is talking to me 02:28:05 wow sgeo 02:28:07 this channel really is quality 02:30:17 hahaha christ 02:30:23 i made a good decision. 02:31:45 Bike: hope you feel welcome 02:31:54 hi 02:31:57 which channel 02:32:02 no channel, shachaf 02:32:03 is it #esoteric 02:32:09 yes 02:32:23 is it #yfl 02:32:29 no 02:32:48 ski is in there 02:32:52 that must be good right?? 02:33:07 shachaf: remember that great ttmrichter guy 02:33:11 who wrote that great post about haskell once 02:33:18 i bet you want to spend lots of time in a room where he has ops right 02:33:39 i love that guy!! 02:33:49 (Actually I know nothing about him.) 02:33:56 (Why is ski in that channel?) 02:34:09 whats your poison bike 02:34:26 mine is cyanide 02:35:59 Bike: is this real 02:36:35 elliott: as separate components sure, don't you know your peirce? 02:36:38 no Sgeo.... dont 02:36:44 no shachaf... dont 02:36:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abductive_logic_programming 02:37:22 elliott: see what you've started 02:37:34 um I believe this is all your fault Bike 02:37:35 or at least 02:37:35 you've become a trendsetter...a hipster of the highest order......... 02:37:36 Sgeo's 02:37:37 no Bike, sgeo's taking the blame here 02:37:55 you've started a movement 02:37:57 sgeo's credit 02:39:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: n'thigg). 02:39:28 i like how i have no idea who anybody is even though some of you obviously have a History 02:39:44 Bike: just listen to elliott???????? 02:39:51 Bike: who has a history 02:39:56 or what do you mean 02:40:01 oh do you mean people in #esoteric in general or something 02:40:03 help?? 02:40:07 well apparently you know who ttmrichter and ski are 02:40:16 ski is a regular in #haskell 02:40:22 see there you go 02:40:24 ski is no regular 02:40:26 ttmrichter is some guy who wrote a really trolly flamebait blog post about haskell once 02:40:29 and then joined #esoteric 02:40:32 and then shachaf drove him away 02:40:33 ps this was days ago 02:40:36 yeah was that the one about cabal 02:40:39 good times 02:40:39 yes 02:40:44 ski is an extraordinary 02:40:59 shachaf, you thought beaky was an extraordinary. 02:41:22 beaky filled a much-needed gap in #haskell 02:41:30 I remember when shachaf wanted to get beaky banned. 02:41:41 elliott: I never wanted that? 02:41:57 I wanted people to be aware of beaky, that's all. 02:43:51 So what's the deal with ski. I don't want to be the sacrifice, man. 02:44:09 * monqy . o O ( Yeah, what's the deal with that guy? ) 02:44:22 ther´es no ´`deal`´?? 02:45:10 btw whats this blog post 02:45:18 I'm pretty sure there's a ´`deal`´ and I want to know whether I should be in on this ´`deal`´.. 02:45:27 ski's a cool dude 02:45:28 * shachaf · ∘ o ○ ( hi monqy ) 02:45:51 ski is what you might call "a cool dude" 02:46:15 oh "a cool dude"s are usually cool 02:46:27 very often so 02:46:35 it's almost like they have something in common 02:47:08 btw in hebrew "dude" means "water heater" 02:47:18 so a "cool dude" would be a problem?? 02:47:24 you might even say it would be a dud 02:48:17 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 03:00:13 haha 03:06:03 do you think it's fair to say that the distinguishing property of a compiler vs. an interpreter is that a compiler doesn't infinite-loop even if the program it's compiling does? 03:06:50 I think it's better to think of it as partial evaluation of an interpreter if you're going to go that road. 03:07:09 mm 03:07:25 futamura projections, another thing I won't have time to get to in this lecture :( 03:07:32 what if it's an awful compiler with bugs. the bug is that the language has undecidable something or other (type system? metalanguage?) and they forgot to put in a timeout 03:08:54 yeah that's what i was thinking of 03:09:13 often it's not straightforward what's compile-time and what's interpret-time and bla bla fuckin bla 03:09:36 'artificial distinction' &c &c 03:10:01 Interpreter that after a certain amount of time... quits and forks to execute the remainder of the program? 03:10:12 yeah i know it's not straightforward 03:10:29 maybe it would be best to explain it with some kind of static analysis 03:10:36 but I think it's a reasonable distinction to talk about, in the middle of a discussion of halting problem and such 03:10:46 Static analysis does not imply compiled 03:10:50 i am aware. 03:11:14 but an idealized compiler looks at a program "statically" enough that whatever it's doing is computable. 03:12:01 How do you distinguish compiler v interpreter for non-TC languages not capable of infinite looping? 03:12:11 you wouldn't 03:12:29 it's not an ironclad mathematical definition 03:12:40 in my opinion a compiler maps a program in one language to its representation in another language (usually lower level) - an interpreter on the other hand maps the program to its effect when executed (which is probably a good way to represent the program, except you might be showing only one possible outcome out of severals, for instance if the program is nondeterministic, or if you're interpreting it over a specific input 03:12:40 Arc_Koen: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 03:12:44 kmc: if you see programs as functions, the distinction is "simpler" 03:12:48 @messages 03:12:48 oerjan said 2m 8d 6h 52m 47s ago: "Note that functions . and , actually modify their input world, rather than a copy." <-- that's evil! also not pure. 03:12:48 oerjan said 6h 32m 40s ago: your fueue interpreters only allow literal ' ' as whitespace (and i suspect the ocaml one doesn't accept even that inside loops.) this ruins my pretty indentation and is 03:12:48 therefore UNACCEPTABLE hth 03:12:51 i'd sure distinguish them!!!!! 03:12:54 it's a way of looking at things which makes certain things clearer and others less clear 03:13:11 I think Arc_Koen's definition matches my intuitive one better 03:13:33 also I'm not asking "what is the best definition of compiler", i was asking whether a particular unusual view is useful / interesting in a particular context 03:13:34 kmc: interpreter :: ({A -> B}_L, A) -> B; compiler :: {A -> B}_L -> {A -> B}_T 03:13:44 kmc: well, i don't think it is 03:13:46 kmc: hideously ad-hoc notation: {X}_L means a program in L representing a function of type X 03:13:52 and T is the target language 03:14:14 that essentially boils down to "a compiler is a partial application of an interpreter", I guess, but you have the distinction of what language things are represented in 03:14:38 oh well 03:14:40 at the level the compiler/interpreter distinction makes sense (translation vs 'execution'??? who knows.........) i think it'd make sense to distinguish e.g. 'compiling' a regular expression to a DFA vs. checking membership of a string directly 03:14:54 it's a pretty ill-defined thing to talk about... 03:14:57 i prefer not to.... 03:15:23 "not compiling means doing a pointless bunch of crap a bajillion times. or at least cutting down on the crap" 03:26:59 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/17kynn/rubygemsorg_got_hacked_today_is_hackage_safe/ 03:27:19 "Is Hackage safe? 03:27:19 Not at all. As everyone can upload a new version of any package, it should take about 5 minutes to break Hackage." 03:27:20 BRILLIANT 03:29:09 "mission critical" is such a set phrase 03:29:12 "anyone at all" with a hackage account 03:29:39 so are there worms written in haskell yet 03:29:50 type-safe elk cloner to commemorate the anniversary 03:36:46 -!- jconn has joined. 03:38:05 ) welcome back jconn 03:38:05 monqy: welcome back jconn 03:38:09 thank you!!! 03:38:15 but my name's monqy..... 03:38:20 ) hello 03:38:21 elliott: |value error: hello 03:38:25 wow 03:38:27 why does it love monqy and not me 03:39:54 ) 2 1$<"0'hi' 03:39:54 Sgeo: +-+ 03:39:55 Sgeo: |h| 03:39:55 Sgeo: +-+ 03:39:55 Sgeo: |i| 03:39:55 Sgeo: +-+ 03:40:14 Probably an easier way to write that 03:40:58 ) a b c 03:40:58 Sgeo: a b c 03:41:05 ) a b 03:41:05 Sgeo: a b 03:42:10 ) 'Hi'"0`'Bye'"0@.?2 03:42:11 Sgeo: |domain error 03:42:11 Sgeo: | 'Hi'"0`'Bye'"0@.?2 03:42:14 ) 'Hi'"0`'Bye'"0@.?1 03:42:14 Sgeo: |domain error 03:42:14 Sgeo: | 'Hi'"0`'Bye'"0@.?1 03:42:19 :/ 03:42:54 ) ;:'''Hi''"0`''Bye''"0@.?1' 03:42:55 Sgeo: +----+-+-+-+-----+-+-+--+-+-+ 03:42:55 Sgeo: |'Hi'|"|0|`|'Bye'|"|0|@.|?|1| 03:42:55 Sgeo: +----+-+-+-+-----+-+-+--+-+-+ 03:43:09 quoting hell :( 03:43:38 woops 03:44:10 string delimiters should be nestable 03:44:19 erm, hmm 03:44:49 Well, if strings can store code sometimes it makes good sense 03:44:52 (see Tcl) 03:45:04 Although the fact that "" in Tcl isn't nestable sucks 04:08:02 This is the best thing ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBxzXCBFf1w&list=PLxHXPBa3SI_iwFjAv9lLwxCFVyc5Fc5hy&index=1 04:17:12 Sgeo: "" is a monoid right 04:23:21 well it is the identity of string composition which is. so i'm gonna say yes. 04:23:58 i love monoids :D 04:24:44 String composition (the operation) is no more a monoid than the identity of that operation. 04:24:57 Anyway, Sgeo said: "" in Tcl isn't nestable 04:25:02 I assume he didn't mean the empty string. 04:25:13 I mean the string delimiters 04:25:20 Or, the " delimiters 04:25:28 "foo "bar" baz" 04:25:29 ??? 04:25:44 But {foo {bar} baz} works, but then you don't get to use [] and $ 04:25:59 This hardly sounds like the best thing ever at all. 04:26:37 Bike: well it ís a monoid............................... 04:26:47 so pretty much the best thing ever 04:26:53 oh, good point. 04:26:57 > id "Bikе" 04:26:57 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 04:27:02 your argument is invalid 04:27:18 :0 04:27:58 :ᒎ 04:28:06 There is activity in that channel 04:28:29 what channel 04:28:37 that channel 04:28:48 oh 04:28:49 that channel 04:29:00 hellonqy 04:29:17 monqy: what about "complex analysis should i learn that" 04:29:58 if you want 04:30:03 analysis can be fun? 04:30:12 i dont know much of it though 04:30:20 just some tastes 04:30:53 give me a "taste" 04:30:59 no 04:31:03 oh 04:31:54 How about how the value of any holomorphic function is completely determined by its values in a ring around that point 04:32:11 what point 04:32:26 any point 04:32:31 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:32:37 value of a holomorphic function at any point, there we go. 04:32:39 math is hard. 04:38:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:39:21 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:42:18 -!- monqy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:45:20 -!- Bike has joined. 05:00:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:02:46 -!- Bike has joined. 05:04:49 -!- augur has joined. 05:19:47 anyone have handy a list of church numerals in the SK calculus 05:20:06 doesn't wikipedia have a table? 05:21:09 @pl \f x -> f (f (f (f (f x)))) 05:21:09 ap (.) (ap (.) (ap (.) (join (.)))) 05:21:14 I guess that's more than SK. 05:21:23 You could get from that to SK with a trivial substitution, though. 05:21:33 Oops, I said trivial. 05:21:41 (But it is?) 05:25:37 i'll allow it 05:25:45 Bike: does it? 05:25:54 i thought it did but i don't see it 05:25:57 i was unable to find it with 15 seconds of googling 05:26:04 which is my new standard for "does a piece of human knowledge exist" 05:26:05 too bad 05:30:34 it seems the punchline of this talk (after encoding away numbers, bools, cons pairs, recursion, and lambda itself) is "all that's left is parentheses" 05:30:37 maybe i should feel bad about that 05:31:19 Encoding away lambda itself? 05:31:21 pah, you don't need parentheses 05:31:22 In terms of what? 05:31:26 shachaf: S/K 05:31:29 well if he's using ski..... 05:31:33 Oh. 05:31:39 Well, just use unlambda. 05:31:46 you do need some form of grouping 05:31:55 unlambda has the apply operator 05:31:59 nah you could use automata 05:32:09 actually use lazy k because "its cooler than unla"mbda?? 05:32:23 Er. 05:32:24 yeah do that 05:32:27 the other punchline under consideration is that i hit a switch and swarms of soldier crabs drop onto everyone 05:32:38 imo that one 05:32:41 don't think i will have time to set that up :/ 05:32:55 i'd have to skip work tomorrow to go fishing 05:32:58 The lecture has been delayed due to crab shortage. 05:34:42 just go to maryland and buy a whole bunch of blue crabs or summat 05:35:07 maryland is far away 05:35:12 i could get maine lobster 05:35:15 that's basically the same right 05:35:22 they need swarming though 05:35:42 god did you even READ the paper on crabputing 05:36:00 crabputers, crabputers, work like computer, taste like crab 05:36:12 :O 05:36:46 the new taste sensation that's sweeping the enterprise server solutions world 05:37:10 tastes great with old bay seasoning 05:40:12 > let chu 0 = "k (s k k)"; chu n = "s (s (k s) k) (" ++ chu (n-1) ++ ")" in chu 5 05:40:15 "s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) ... 05:40:18 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:40:25 > let s x y z = x z (y z); k x y = x in s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (k (s k k)))))) (+1) 0 05:40:27 5 05:40:30 There you go. 05:40:53 :k Mu Maybe 05:40:55 * 05:41:22 > let chu 0 = "k (s k k)"; chu n = "s (s (k s) k) (" ++ chu (n-1) ++ ")" in chu 2 05:41:24 "s (s (k s) k) (s (s (k s) k) (k (s k k)))" 05:42:23 chu chu chrain 05:42:34 wow, it's unnaturally warm right now 05:42:38 57° 05:42:50 yes 05:42:53 Oh, Google made their weather finder thing fancy. 05:52:13 -!- monqy has joined. 05:53:24 " actually use lazy k because "its cooler than unla"mbda??" no it's not 05:53:32 unlambda is awesome, lazy k is just ski. 05:53:36 "quotes" 05:54:11 oh do they mean something 05:54:21 no 05:54:26 oh there was a beginning quote 05:55:20 ""its cooler than unla"mbda??" i parsed this as it's cooler than unlambda with randomly inserted quotes 05:55:55 but indeed the beginning quote is correctly placed 05:56:17 and perhaps could be interpreted as some sort of sarcasm 05:56:30 but in any case, i've heard many people say that lazy k is better 05:57:24 which is stupid. i would be fine with "SKI is better" tho. 05:57:33 but perhaps there were always quotes 05:57:44 perhaps everything i've ever heard and learned was in quotes 05:58:10 and really and truly i have heard nothing which has a meaning 05:58:29 i'm going to make a sandwich now 06:03:18 perhaps death is just the closing of a cosmic quote 06:05:20 ...," yields falsehood when... 06:11:10 so there's a deadline today :o 06:12:38 i love deadlines 06:12:41 mmmm 06:14:33 deadlines alone move the wheels of history 06:15:10 pretty much 06:15:38 also actual deaths, i hear 06:16:37 kmc: Are S and K enough even in a strict language? 06:16:39 but yeah writing usually gets exponentially faster when there's a deadline 06:16:52 Well, I guess they are. 06:17:25 oklopol: I mean that SKI is better. 06:17:32 With laziness. 06:17:37 Or non-strictness, anyway. 06:17:38 ski has laziness 06:17:49 But Lazy K is the only semi-standard implementation of SKI that I know of. 06:18:16 well i suppose that's a reasonable argument. 06:18:22 i still disagree, unlambda is awesome 06:19:27 SKI is better. 06:20:23 no it's not 06:20:44 ski + continuations is just an awesome idea 06:21:01 a priori. i have no idea what programming with that combination is like. 06:21:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:21:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:21:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:21:24 OK, SKI + continuations might be better than SKI. 06:21:28 well obviously ski is a better idea than ski+continuations. 06:21:28 But SKI is still better than unlambda. 06:21:35 but i still prefer the combination 06:23:02 shachaf: idgi? what's wrong with unlambda if not the continuations 06:23:26 It's strict? 06:23:36 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:23:52 OK, I guess you probably want strictness if you have first-class continuations. 06:26:53 kmc: are you teaching them about monoids 06:27:07 dr. beaky or: how i learned to stop worrying and love the monoids 06:34:41 What's with people writing the names of things like complexity in ALLUPPERCASE? 06:34:52 Did they figure them out before lowercase letters were invented? 06:36:12 BEAKY 06:39:19 beaky-completeness 06:46:43 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:47:17 -!- madbr has joined. 06:48:05 why do CPUs still have so few execution units? 06:48:41 like 06:48:48 they have billions of transistors 06:49:08 yet they're still souped up pentium IIs that can only really do 4 instructions per cycle 06:50:13 no wonder ARM is gaining ground 06:51:59 how many units does an arm have? 06:52:26 A8 has 2 06:52:33 I think A15 has 3 06:53:04 is that more than 4 instructions/cycle 06:53:23 They're so small they should be called µnits. 06:53:33 depends if memory load counts as a separate instruction 06:53:43 mnits 06:54:06 if you count memory load, the pentium IIs they do these days go up to like 6 or 7 06:54:20 starglte, hllf-life, numbthreers 06:54:32 while arm A8 stays at 2 06:54:49 and A15 goes up to like 5 06:54:58 @nixon 06:54:58 People react to fear, not love; they don't teach that in Sunday School, but it's true. 06:55:20 so arm is gaining ground because it has less or what 06:56:19 arm is gaining ground because while they do have less, their design is much, much less complicated 06:56:25 although it's out of order now 06:56:51 what's that got to do with execution units 06:57:05 execution units are the payload 06:57:29 like, the actual adders, multipliers, multiplexers that read from the cache.. 06:57:46 ie the parts that ddo the stuff that you actually want 06:58:22 and not the bookkeeping surrounding that like instruction decoding and branch prediction 07:00:00 https://simonsfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/tsp_map.jpg 07:00:42 the only good thing about the p2 is that its crazy architecture lets it keep doing stuff during a cache miss 07:01:16 shachaf: is that all one line 07:01:57 oh, traveling salesman 07:04:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:04:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:10:02 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Quit: RodgerTheGreat). 07:38:31 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:43:14 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: oh nooooo). 08:01:05 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 08:01:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:02:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:03:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:09:26 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:18:32 -!- clog has joined. 08:29:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:34:10 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:03:39 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:04:28 -!- HackEgo has joined. 09:20:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:20:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:20:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:21:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:21:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:21:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:21:20 -!- glogbot has joined. 09:21:25 -!- glogbackup has left. 09:21:27 -!- glogbackup has quit (Excess Flood). 09:28:16 -!- Gregor has quit (Excess Flood). 09:36:00 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:36:38 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:14:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:16:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:16:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:02:30 -!- carado has joined. 11:09:16 "n this article we present a mathematical data model for the most common noSQL databasesnamely, key/value relationshipsand demonstrate that this data model is the mathematical dual of SQL's relational data model of foreign-/primary-key relationships. " 11:20:18 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:22:31 The dual of a key store is a little cooky. 11:42:18 "But remember: if you buy something at a low price and want to make a profit from its sale, a selling price has to be more than twice the amount paid. That way, one can get more money than one started with." 11:42:19 wot 11:42:23 http://www.thonky.com/eve-online-guide/eve-online-market.php 11:50:56 Oh, and here's a new thing for you: http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/people_mentions.html 12:03:12 Uhm http://sourceware.org/ml/glibc-cvs/2013-q1/msg00115.html 12:03:51 Freedom is the freedom to say that 2 + TWO make zero. 12:06:26 Sgeo: http://oi46.tinypic.com/2qsqvbo.jpg 12:07:59 Evidently I've mentioned optbot the most? That's a bit poor. 12:08:11 fizzie: It's funny how elliott was mentioned the most 12:08:19 fizzie: I wonder if having relative-in-column and relative-in-row visualizations would be useful. 12:08:36 is it funny how elliott talks the most 12:08:38 the only people who never did are Keymaker and Razor-X 12:09:07 fizzie: are all these graphs my fault 12:09:11 "pairings that never occurred" this is where we fill in with shachaf fanfic 12:09:15 what have i started !! 12:09:15 i think variable may have been cheating somewhat 12:09:21 shachaf: Perhaps not quite, but I'm blaming you in any case. 12:09:31 funny how when you click "freq. of being mentioned", there's a diagonal line of self-mentions 12:10:27 same but less visible on other settings 12:11:29 Deewiant: Perhaps I should add a "normalize" dropdown later. (I was also thinking of feeding that same data into a graph thing, and/or a clustering thing.) 12:13:36 Deewiant: And actually since the row is "person who was mentioned", it's just that optbot's said your name quite often (w.r.t. how much optbot has spoken, overall). 12:14:40 fizzie: It should highlight nicks when you hover over a blank square. 12:14:50 fizzie: Oh, right. I somehow always manage to mix up X and Y when reading tables. 12:15:17 "Person X" = "person whose name is written in the X-direction" 12:15:57 Deewiant: I probably should've just talked about rows and columns there, and also not reuse X and Y for the name-placeholders. 12:16:11 `pastelogs kipple 12:16:13 shachaf: I guess. It doesn't because those don't have associated rect elements at all, at the moment. 12:16:27 fizzie: They could be white squares. 12:17:36 monqy: hi "im right next 2 u on the graph" 12:18:12 They could. Also I was wondering if it should highlight (in some suitably subtle way, maybe with a thin black border or something) the transpose cell, so that you can easily see whether the feeling is mutual. 12:18:57 Jafet, I don't actually play EVE yet 12:19:08 But I gather that those are not things worth that amount 12:19:20 shachaf: hi 12:19:44 Jafet, wait, what's with that unreachable thing? 12:20:21 i say we ship Jafet and fungot 12:20:21 shachaf: expressions which have enjoyed a wide range of complex harmonic structures from voice i at the warm start, basic statements on. this chart shows which color com- binations to avoid defining nonarray variables ( see the section on input/ output operations. in scientific notation 12:20:48 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:20:52 Now the empty cells are rectangles too. 12:21:08 Yay! 12:21:16 fizzie++ # responsive 12:21:33 Have you considered running for president? 12:21:38 SING FOR ME FUNGOT 12:21:47 In 2018 or so. 12:21:50 I'm sorry I yelled at you, fungot. 12:21:51 Jafet: registers affected: a, and does not understand, so we've put together a fun sprite program called " scrolling. it is receiving). 12:22:08 fungot: ♥ 12:22:08 shachaf: you can also develop special graphics characters. these are the values of the x and y registers to zero. 12:22:35 I should probably make those lines between cells also just a grid on top, so that the nick highlight wouldn't blink so much. 12:22:41 `addquote fungot: ♥ shachaf: you can also develop special graphics characters. 12:22:41 Jafet: for scrolling in the 651 0 microprocessor is writing irq interrupt to occur while you can display the upper left-hand corner of the device resets these pointers are no longer work, forcing major revisions in the 12:23:01 Hmm, I might read zzo38 fan fiction. 12:23:24 @tell Jafet addquote (this parenthetical messes with fizzie's stats) 12:23:24 You can tell yourself! 12:23:35 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:24:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:27:11 Hmm, did Fiora leave? 12:34:40 I made a highlight-cell-and-transpose happen, and it looks kinda silly, but oh-well. 12:38:27 monqy: you look about "third reddest" to me 12:44:06 Ooh, I should add (on the non-labeled edges) a line-plot showing the overall marginal distribution, as well as the highlighted nick's one. 13:20:32 ...the hell 13:20:44 I'm scp -r'ing everything from my account at Farmingdale to home 13:20:57 Seems to be just downloading a lot of Factor related stuff repetitively 13:23:16 Hmm, maybe not repetitively 13:27:56 I put a lot of stuff on there that I don't really need a copy of I guess 13:27:58 So bleh 13:28:07 I want to at least keep my picolisp code 13:29:09 what about your ada code 13:31:05 I have not written any Ada code. 13:43:42 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 13:49:02 -!- boily has joined. 14:42:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 15:26:58 -!- Gregor has joined. 15:33:05 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:47:35 Some other Gregor jerk is trying to snag my nick. 15:47:40 Keeps logging in whenever I'm not using it. 15:51:33 what a jerk 15:51:45 just what i'd expect from someone named Gregor !! 15:53:00 Gregor: set protect 15:53:00 Have you considered changing your name to Tertbe? 15:53:39 coppro: I used to have protect on, but I have a BNC, so every time I get disconnected my BNC stays connected with my nick for a while without authenticating. 15:53:59 haha 15:55:03 I could probably make my BNC auth, but I'm lazy and don't know how. 15:56:30 -!- Gregor has changed nick to TwilightSpockle. 15:58:19 TwilightSpockle: this network accepts nickserv passwords with PASSWORD 15:59:01 Oh. That makes it pretty easy then X-D 15:59:49 TwilightSpockle: imo Tertbe would be betTer 16:00:18 (DO YOU GET THE JOKE. THE JOKE IS THE ROT13 OF YOUR NAME IS AN ANAGRAM FOR "BETTER") 16:00:26 (I CAPITALIZED A LETTER THERE TO MAKE IT OBVIOUS) 16:00:54 HA 16:00:56 HA HA 16:03:01 where hackego 16:27:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:28:07 Hello 16:28:25 The program in the topic seems vaguely similar? 16:28:44 Does this perhaps come from a code golfing competition? 16:28:56 Similar to what? 16:29:11 Similar or equal to a program I saw before 16:29:46 hm. I might just be the 2 arrays 16:30:44 What is that program? 16:38:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:40:58 shachaf: one behaviour is dropping the first character of a single input line. can't remember who told me that there were other alternatives. 16:41:30 it seems to be subleq interpreter 16:41:51 Aha. 16:45:31 That must have been one of those HASHA CHAF. 16:51:55 Turn's out one can find the stortest non occuring sequence within n^2 steps. 16:58:12 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:08:53 -!- HackEgo has joined. 17:15:40 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:45:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:26:12 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:26:28 mroman: you mean subsequence? of a sequence of length n? 18:31:45 quintopia: http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?shortest+non+occuring+sequence 18:32:43 Finding a sequence of characters not present in another sequence of characters 18:33:40 thats what i thought 18:36:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:36:32 You can enumerate all substrings, sort them 18:36:46 go through the sorted list and find where something is missing in that order. 18:37:21 probably around (2*n^2*log(n^2)) or something 18:37:32 however, brute-force is far more efficient. 18:38:22 you can generate all variations (where there are m^k+m^(k-1)+m^(k-2)..., where m = alphabet size) 18:39:02 and check if the string contains that variations. 18:39:14 => brute forcing a solution. 18:39:34 brute force is way faster than the first method. 18:39:59 i'm not seeing how you're getting n^2 for the first method anyway 18:40:07 I initially thought brute force is exponential 18:40:12 hold on 18:40:12 as generating variations is exponential. 18:40:22 oh okay i see it 18:40:37 There are n*n(+1)*0.5 substrings of a string 18:40:47 yeah, there are O(n^2) possible consecutive substrings 18:41:09 however, brute-force finds a solution in at max. n*(n+1)*0.5+1 steps. 18:41:51 so...really both of these methods are a kind of brute force 18:42:01 and they both have the same asymptotic time bound 18:42:12 the only question is which is shortest to code 18:42:26 well 18:42:41 I figured the first method is not technically brute force 18:42:54 It doesn't try every variation 18:43:02 it locates a solution 18:43:21 but yeah 18:43:40 since sorting is n*log(n) 18:43:50 and you have to sort ~n^2 substrings 18:44:10 means that the first method is probably O(n^2*log(n^2)) 18:44:19 while brute force is just O(n^2) 18:46:35 Because there are only n^2 non-solutions 18:46:52 you will find a solution within n^2+1 steps 18:46:58 ultimate worst-case 18:47:07 ah 18:47:07 the actual worst-case is lower than n^2 for brute force 18:47:21 but 18:47:54 you can do the first algorithm in O(n^2) by using a linear time sort 18:47:56 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:48:13 itll only be slower than the second by a constant 18:48:29 actually 18:48:36 hm 18:48:39 maybe even same time 18:48:48 how would you linear sort? 18:48:58 so 18:49:15 you'll agree that strings of abcde are just base 5 numbers 18:49:33 of course 18:49:42 so convert each found substring into its number, and throw it into an array at that position 18:49:44 ah 18:49:46 i see 18:49:49 distribution sort? 18:49:50 when you're done, scan for the first empty slot 18:50:18 neat. 18:51:56 wastes a lot of memory 18:51:57 but yeah. 18:53:14 also 18:53:30 if the alphabet size is only 3 18:53:38 one can convert it into a sat problem 18:54:08 works also for m > 3, but it's getting exponential to convert it 18:59:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:59:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:59:37 hmm, google translate thinks that "Gwleidyddiaeth" is english 19:00:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:00:04 Uhhh, you think it's not? lol, what a gwleidyddiaeth. 19:00:09 !rot13 Newyddion, Chwaraeon, Gwleidyddiaeth, Darluniau ac unrhyw beth arall yn perthyn i Gymru! 19:00:11 Arjlqqvba, Pujnenrba, Tjyrvqlqqvnrgu, Qneyhavnh np haeulj orgu nenyy la cregula v Tlzeh! 19:01:21 hmm, it's not rot13? 19:03:11 hm wait 19:03:13 @base 5 19:03:13 Maybe you meant: ask babel paste 19:03:45 you assign each character a digit? 19:03:55 a -> 0, b -> 1, c -> 2 ...? 19:05:14 how'd you encode aaaaaa and aa in that? 19:05:27 !rot13 Je pense que je vais m'en tenir à mes fausses lettres et me tenir loin de cette aberration imprononçable! 19:05:28 Wr crafr dhr wr invf z'ra grave à zrf snhffrf yrggerf rg zr grave ybva qr prggr noreengvba vzcebabaçnoyr! 19:07:33 you couldn't differentiate between aaaa and aa that way 19:18:21 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:19:27 boily: that's not finnish 19:26:51 olsner: no, it is not. 19:28:58 olsner: it's Welsh 19:32:22 apparently "wr" is welsh for man, husband or water 19:33:57 is the pronunciation the same as the spelling? 19:34:12 yes, the pronunciation is also welsh 19:41:32 Pronunciation is a bit weird. 'f' is pronounced like 'v'. 'll' is pronounced like 'hl'. 19:43:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:52:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:57:07 impomatic: welsh ll is a letter all of its own 19:57:10 it's somewhere between hl and chl 19:57:54 that's kind of misleading AIUI 19:59:02 it's like an l, but with less space between your tongue and the roof of your mouth and no voicing 19:59:59 yeah, that's a more accurate description, but a harder one to audialize 20:00:00 -!- Bike has joined. 20:00:28 like the klingon tlh? 20:01:01 I don't know klingon 20:01:43 olsner, yes without the t at the start, i think 20:02:26 as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just like welsh ll" or "that's just like klingon tlh" 20:03:09 iirc the klingon tlh doesn't actually have anything that sounds like t in it, but I might be mixing my klingon up 20:03:39 according to wp it's what i described except you start with the airflow completely blocked 20:06:34 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:11:45 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:14:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:15:55 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:18:35 `? Haskell 20:18:40 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 20:18:49 heh 20:19:00 "but that syntax isn't even in haskell" 20:19:27 :ty f`?haskell`x 20:19:39 @type f`?haskell`x 20:19:40 parse error on input `?haskell' 20:19:58 :ty ?haskell 20:20:00 ̀? wisdom 20:20:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:20:11 @type ?haskell 20:20:12 (?haskell::t) => t 20:20:13 `? wisdom 20:20:15 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry 20:20:25 :ty might only work in PMs 20:20:26 paradox lololoololololololol 20:20:29 i think it's just :t 20:20:34 and it works in #haskell, but maybe not other channels 20:20:35 :t might only work in PMs 20:20:36 :t () 20:20:36 ah. thought that HackEgo was borked. 20:20:37 parse error on input `in' 20:20:37 () 20:20:39 hm 20:20:41 `? C 20:20:43 C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 20:20:43 :t ?haskell 20:20:45 (?haskell::t) => t 20:20:50 > let 2 + 2 = 5 in "you have not been paying attention" 20:20:51 "you have not been paying attention" 20:21:24 `? windows 20:21:26 windows? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:21:31 `? Taneb 20:21:33 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules) 20:23:22 `? elliott 20:23:23 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. 20:23:32 `? tire 20:23:32 `? rabbi 20:23:34 rabbi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:23:34 tire? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:24:17 `? d-modules 20:24:19 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 20:24:35 `? tanebventions 20:24:37 tanebventions? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:24:53 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 20:24:56 `learn Tanebventions include D-modules and automatic squirrel feeders 20:25:00 I knew that. 20:25:17 I always thought automatic squirrels fed themselves 20:25:32 olsner, so an automatic squirrel feeder was a very easy invention 20:25:54 do you just put some food on the ground where squirrels will be able to eat it? 20:25:59 what about the man eating chicken? 20:26:04 that's more automatic than catching the squirrel so you can give it some food 20:26:07 `?d-module 20:26:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?d-module: not found 20:26:12 `?d-modules 20:26:13 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?d-modules: not found 20:26:14 `welcome ThatOtherPerson 20:26:16 ThatOtherPerson: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:26:17 `WELCOME ThatOtherPerson 20:26:19 THATOTHERPERSON: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 20:26:25 `wercom ThatOtherPerson 20:26:26 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wercom: not found 20:26:30 `wercome ThatOtherPerson 20:26:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wercome: not found 20:26:34 wow 20:26:36 ThatOtherPerson, there's a space 20:26:39 I feel very welcomed. 20:26:41 wercome isn't there anymore? 20:26:41 :D 20:26:46 `? d-modules 20:26:48 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 20:26:54 `wehlcome 20:26:56 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wehlcome: not found 20:27:13 `wElCoMe ThatOtherPerson 20:27:14 I doubt ThatOtherPerson is new 20:27:14 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElCoMe: not found 20:27:19 or they wouldn't have known to do `? 20:27:19 do we only have boring correctly spelled welcome commands now!? outrageous 20:27:34 ais523, because I have once again mentioned the glory of HackEgo in another channel 20:27:42 ais523: I was talking to Taneb about it 20:27:45 I apologize again 20:27:48 Taneb: oh, I see 20:27:52 they came to try out HackEgo 20:27:55 it is indeed glorious 20:28:08 Anyway, I'm interested in esoteric languages 20:28:10 ThatOtherPerson, it's actually a linux system running as root 20:28:15 So I might as well stay 20:28:17 actually, you can probably measure HackEgo versus EgoBot usage ratio to see how ontopic the cahannel is 20:28:31 People still use EgoBot? 20:28:33 ais523: there are topics? 20:28:36 boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world 20:28:37 Taneb: exactly 20:28:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:28:43 well, this channel is meant to be for discussing esolangs 20:28:45 just we so rarely do 20:29:01 `ls bin/wisdom 20:29:03 ls: cannot access bin/wisdom: No such file or directory 20:29:06 `ls wisdom 20:29:08 ​`? \ ? \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ $1? \ ais523 \ america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bike \ boily \ bonvenon \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ category \ claustrophobia \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ cyberiad \ devious \ d-module \ egobot \ ehird \ elliot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ endomorphis 20:29:12 `ls wisdom/* 20:29:13 ls: cannot access wisdom/*: No such file or directory 20:29:18 `? $1? 20:29:19 I don't think that we've talked about any esolangs for months but BF Joust and Radixal!!!!, and the occasional brainfuck when someone comes in asking for help with it 20:29:19 ​$1? ��\(��_o)/�� 20:29:26 wait what 20:29:28 `pwd 20:29:29 ​/hackenv 20:29:34 O_o 20:29:35 ais523: but then, what about J? 20:29:39 ais523, me, oerjan and Arc_Koen sometimes talk about Fueue 20:29:41 Taneb: is the joke that you lied 20:29:44 J isn't normally considered an esolang 20:29:46 Taneb: oh right 20:29:46 also can someone fix that smiley 20:29:52 yesterday i was asking about SK calculus 20:30:04 there was also quite interesting discussion of wang tiles and the like 20:30:30 `which ? 20:30:32 ​/hackenv/bin/? 20:30:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:30:47 `cat /hackenv/bin/? 20:30:48 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; 20:30:57 `? Ngevd 20:30:59 ​kʋޱݝ 20:31:09 That's... somewhat curtailed 20:31:32 `apt-get 20:31:34 apt 0.8.10.3 for amd64 compiled on Apr 15 2011 07:35:31 \ Usage: apt-get [options] command \ apt-get [options] install|remove pkg1 [pkg2 ...] \ apt-get [options] source pkg1 [pkg2 ...] \ \ apt-get is a simple command line interface for downloading and \ installing packages. The most frequently used commands are update \ and install. 20:31:44 you have got to be kidding me 20:31:51 HackEgo has apt installed!? 20:31:59 `? Ngevd 20:32:01 zAr1%b{IL@^Ċ)[z(Я;'s'# \ Q9"Jh=ƸxXvP!1!eM:66{M>#ay؜z¯̠93XՕ^P4Nl;iay; 20:32:36 `python --version 20:32:38 Python 2.7 20:32:42 `python 20:32:56 `python --version 20:32:58 Python 2.7 20:33:04 ThatOtherPerson, it's not interactive 20:33:14 Python 2.7 (r27:82500, Oct 13 2010, 20:26:16) \ [GCC 4.4.4] on linux2 \ Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. \ >>> 20:33:17 I din't think it would be 20:33:35 Just checking to see if it would hang 20:33:45 Nope, it timed out 20:33:50 It's surprisingly hard to break HackEgo. 20:33:59 o rly 20:34:07 `reboot 20:34:07 -!- ogrom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:34:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: reboot: not found 20:34:14 :D 20:34:14 For a start, it's in a mercurial repository 20:34:18 So we can just revert 20:34:24 Second... 20:34:27 `rm -rf / 20:34:29 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 20:34:37 `rm -r -f / 20:34:38 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 20:34:41 `run rm -rf /* 20:34:48 Bah 20:35:00 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:35:20 Oh wait, I was actually working on something before I came here 20:35:33 `ls / 20:35:49 `ls 20:35:53 erm 20:35:58 `python --version 20:36:04 rm: cannot remove `/bin/bash': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/rbash': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/sh': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/ln': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/uname': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/stty': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bi 20:36:15 Python 2.7 20:36:17 bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var 20:36:18 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh 20:36:18 ​= 0 \ bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 20:36:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:36:48 `quote plastic spoon 20:36:50 413) Someone with that sort of grasp of logic shouldn't be allowed anything more computationally powerful than a plastic spoon 20:36:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:37:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:37:17 ThatOtherPerson, do you intend to become a regular here? 20:37:21 give me a plastic spoon and sufficient yogurt to swirl around and i will compute the universe 20:37:21 Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:37:24 whoa 20:37:31 Taneb: maybe? 20:37:39 @tell shachaf so fucking monoid you don't even know 20:37:39 Consider it noted. 20:37:41 Do you read Homestuck or Order of the Stick? 20:37:41 -!- augur has joined. 20:37:42 `addquote as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just like welsh ll" or "that's just like klingon tlh" 20:37:43 oerjan: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 20:37:46 943) as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just like welsh ll" or "that's just like klingon tlh" 20:37:48 I'm not sure if I'm really contributing to the conversation 20:37:55 what conversation 20:37:56 `python -c 'print "Hello, world!"' 20:37:58 ​ File "", line 1 \ 'print "Hello, world!"' \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent 20:38:04 Taneb: homestuck 20:38:07 `list 20:38:09 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 20:38:15 ThatOtherPerson: don't worry, a conversation will contribute to you some day. 20:38:19 `cat /bin/list 20:38:20 cat: /bin/list: No such file or directory 20:38:21 (be careful of fridays, they bite) 20:38:25 `cat bin/list 20:38:26 echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 20:38:27 Bah 20:38:27 :D 20:38:27 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:38:30 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:38:39 `uname 20:38:40 Linux 20:38:44 `uname -a 20:38:44 `uname -a 20:38:45 Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux 20:38:46 Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux 20:38:54 `run echo "echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot" > bin/list 20:38:57 No output. 20:39:00 `list 20:39:01 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 20:39:13 That's our "there's been an update" thing 20:39:19 :D 20:39:24 this is pretty hilarious 20:39:25 I am all of the first three names... 20:39:39 ThatOtherPerson: so, what are your thoughts on monoids 20:39:42 `ps aux 20:39:44 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 0.0 0.1 912 276 ? S 20:39 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 20:39 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 20:39 0:00 [ksoftirqd/0] \ 0 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? 20:39:52 :t might only work in PMs <-- the other way around, actually 20:39:57 `uptime 20:39:58 ​ 20:39:58 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 20:40:04 Bike: I currently don't have a single thought on monoids 20:40:07 hahaha 20:40:15 BUt I'm about to get some 20:40:18 ThatOtherPerson: prepare for enlightenment 20:40:18 every HackEgo command boots a user mode linux machine, right? 20:40:19 oerjan: aha, I knew there was something special about it 20:41:07 kmc: yes 20:41:13 Bike: okay, my current thoughts on monoids run something like: "It's way too late for me to be able to understand this stuff" 20:41:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:41:26 in before beaky 20:41:36 in after beaky mo' like 20:41:47 ThatOtherPerson: it's just like multiplication! but less so. 20:41:54 `run mv wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebvention 20:41:57 No output. 20:42:18 ThatOtherPerson: I hear they're easy. 20:42:22 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 20:42:55 ThatOtherPerson, did you learn Groups in maths? 20:43:09 -!- monqy has joined. 20:44:27 Taneb: no 20:44:48 ...sets? 20:44:55 `wehlcohme olsner 20:44:58 ohlsnehr: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 20:45:16 Taneb: You shouldn't underestimate people so much 20:45:27 Taneb: sets, yes 20:45:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:46:25 Okay, a monoid is a set plus an operation, <>, and a blessed element of the set, e, such that the following rules are followed: 20:46:34 `addquote boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world 20:46:38 944) boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world 20:46:49 For any a and b in the set, a <> b is in the set (closure) 20:47:09 pfft, sets 20:47:15 more like worst foundation ever 20:47:30 For any a, b, and c in the set, a <> (b <> c) is the same as (a <> b) <> c (associativity) 20:47:32 * ThatOtherPerson is too tired to think 20:47:41 For any a in the set, a <> e = e <> a = a 20:47:43 ThatOtherPerson: good news, a group is actually like a set, but you just apply a mathematical operation to any two of its elements to form a third one 20:47:50 AnotherTest: um... 20:47:53 ther'es lots of ways to define 'the monoid' 20:47:53 AnotherTest, that's a magma 20:47:55 that's a magma 20:48:01 elliott: i forgot how monoids work with categories already. something about endomorphisms??? 20:48:05 meh just keep it simple 20:48:08 also can someone fix that smiley <-- actually that particular smiley is broken on purpose 20:48:08 ... 20:48:15 don't lie to people. 20:48:15 Do magmas guarantee closure? 20:48:21 that's blatantly a magma and not a group 20:48:25 Bike: those are categorical monoids 20:48:30 Bike: different thing 20:48:33 christ 20:48:35 Taneb: yes magmas have closure 20:48:44 imo fuck foundations 20:49:42 An example of a monoid is integers under addition 20:49:48 Another is functions under composition 20:49:55 um 20:49:56 not all functions 20:49:57 AnotherTest: the inverse is probably the important part of groups, to distinguish them from "all those other things" anyway 20:49:59 and uh 20:50:00 SOME FUNCTIONS 20:50:03 20:50:09 endofunctors?? 20:50:15 Functions that all have the same domain and range 20:50:17 CLEARLY endofunctions 20:50:19 wait wait 20:50:38 endomorphisms on...Set.... 20:50:38 isn't a group specifiable as a magma 20:50:47 what would that even mean 20:50:48 magma "with some properties" 20:50:56 AnotherTest, all groups are magmas, the opposite is not true 20:51:17 A group is a magma with associativity, an identity elem I guess 20:51:20 and an inverse 20:51:37 lots of inverse 20:51:44 it's like a bunch of things had a "party" (the party is a magma) and then a bunch of things that the first group of things fucking hate (the inverses) and then they all kill each other but can never escape (closure??) 20:52:11 That's a loop 20:52:14 You need identity 20:52:23 oh yeah 20:52:26 ok add a boring dude 20:52:34 Wait, it's not a loop 20:52:52 well i did say it was a magma, don't magmas have identities? 20:52:53 um taneb 20:52:58 loops need an identity 20:53:10 since loops are quasigroups with an identity elem. 20:53:17 ope no they don't 20:53:23 Yeah, I remembered that 20:53:28 you also forgot associativity bike 20:53:36 So they're quasigroups 20:53:40 just start out with monoids it will make everything easier 20:53:44 :-) 20:53:48 i think i'm overestimating magmas yeah 20:53:51 monoid superiority 20:54:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magma_to_group2.svg are these names supposed to make any sense 20:54:39 I guess? 20:54:48 Or did I just guess wrong 20:55:24 good question 20:55:35 anyway so now ThatOtherPerson is like totally an algebraist, to the max, yo. 20:55:48 are you sure 20:55:50 sorry, I haven't been following 20:55:59 nothing happened don't worry 20:56:11 ThatOtherPerson, there's a lot of things with different names 20:56:22 These things have different properties too 20:56:40 `rm wisdom/coppro 20:56:43 No output. 20:56:45 that thing keeps highlighting me 20:57:18 an insatiable thirst for coppro knowledge 20:57:24 And my current thinkability is -10 beard-seconds 20:57:33 what does that mean 20:57:37 Beard-seconds measures speed 20:57:38 can you put that in SI? 20:57:46 Wait 20:57:47 Length 20:57:57 Bike, it's about a nanometre, iirc 20:58:25 5 or 10 nm, looking it up 20:58:31 Who is ThatOtherPerson. 20:58:35 What do you need for a ring again? 20:58:38 what if it was a mistake. the true measure of thinkability is in beards per second 20:58:39 so is thinkability measured in speed......... 20:58:52 AnotherTest: depends on who you ask 20:59:01 rings are one of those things people have trouble agreeing on : ) 20:59:11 TwilightSpockle: he's that other person you don't know 20:59:11 oh ok 20:59:19 do rings have a multiplicative identity????nobody knows 20:59:21 What if I asked you 20:59:31 can rings just be "they have multiplication and addition" and then we agree to pretend we don't care about the rest of the details, or "deets" for short 20:59:33 ThatOtherPerson: Indeed. 20:59:59 monqy: aren't matrices a ring? 21:00:11 *in a 21:00:18 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:00:19 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host). 21:00:19 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:00:21 They have identity.. 21:00:27 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:00:30 (also; note n x n matrices) 21:00:39 yes n*n matrices form a ring 21:00:47 that just means that there's a ring with an identity, not that rings have to have id 21:00:48 oh but wait 21:00:53 `revert 21:00:54 yeah 21:00:55 Done. 21:01:19 `which revert 21:01:21 No output. 21:01:22 `? coppro 21:01:24 coppro prefers his nickname, Pooppy. 21:01:45 can we at least change the filename if you want it? 21:01:51 I dislike being highlighted by `ls wisdom 21:03:08 `ls 21:03:10 ​= 0 \ bin \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 21:04:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:05:16 `ls wisdom 21:05:19 ​`? \ ? \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ $1? \ ais523 \ america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bike \ boily \ bonvenon \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ category \ claustrophobia \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ cyberiad \ devious \ d-module \ egobot \ ehird \ elliot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ endomorphis 21:05:26 STOP IT :| 21:05:38 `ls wisdom 21:05:39 ​`? \ ? \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ $1? \ ais523 \ america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bike \ boily \ bonvenon \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ category \ claustrophobia \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ cyberiad \ devious \ d-module \ egobot \ ehird \ elliot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ endomorphis 21:05:48 please, people 21:05:53 maybe you should change your name to z'augur 21:05:53 `? banach-tarski 21:05:54 ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 21:05:55 I don't like being nickpinged this much for bad reasons :( 21:06:04 z'ais523 21:06:15 z'monqy: :| 21:06:39 m is already good enough for this purpose 21:06:48 `mv wisdom/coppro wisdom/c.oppro 21:06:49 mv: missing destination file operand after `wisdom/coppro wisdom/c.oppro' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. 21:06:53 `run mv wisdom/coppro wisdom/c.oppro 21:06:57 No output. 21:07:00 bsk "banach-tarski" obviously has zero measure 21:07:15 `run mv wisdom/ais523 wisdom/a.is523 21:07:19 No output. 21:07:22 SATISFIED? 21:07:22 how about we just don't do ls wisdom 21:07:25 rather than moving all enrties to dumb things 21:07:27 ^ 21:07:39 `run mv wisdom/a.is523 wisdom/ais523; mv wisdom/c.oppro wisdom/coppro 21:07:43 No output. 21:07:52 alternatively we can like pad out the start of the directory with a bunch of junk files if people relaly can't stop themselves 21:07:53 elliott: but how are we then going to know what wisdom there is! 21:07:57 `zalgo.hs 21:07:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: zalgo.hs: not found 21:07:59 oh hm... 21:08:00 oerjan: there are unknown unknowns 21:08:03 we don't need a bunch of junk files 21:08:08 `cat zalgo.hs 21:08:08 anyway `run ls wisdom | patse works 21:08:09 import Random;main=mapM_((>>(י=< just one file that's first in alphabetical order and has a name that's like 500 characters long 21:08:25 `run chmod a-r wisdom 21:08:28 No output. 21:08:32 oerjan: genius :) 21:08:33 `? elliott 21:08:38 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. 21:08:40 `ls wisdom 21:08:43 `ls wisdom 21:08:43 ls: cannot open directory wisdom: Permission denied 21:08:46 ls: cannot open directory wisdom: Permission denied 21:08:47 heh 21:08:58 +r is needed to list directories, +x to access files inside them 21:09:17 `ghci 21:09:26 `which ghci 21:10:19 `run (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'chmod +r wisdom'; echo 'ls wisdom | paste'; echo 'chmod -r wisdom') >bin/pastewisdom 21:10:20 GHCi, version 7.6.1: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help \ Loading package ghc-prim ... linking ... done. \ Loading package integer-gmp ... linking ... done. \ Loading package base ... linking ... done. \ Prelude> 21:10:23 No output. 21:10:24 ​/opt/ghc/bin/ghci 21:10:27 `pastewisdom 21:10:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26256 21:10:54 `ghc 21:11:00 ghc: no input files \ Usage: For basic information, try the `--help' option. 21:11:07 `ghc --help 21:11:07 `gcc 21:11:13 Usage: \ \ ghc [command-line-options-and-input-files] \ \ To compile and link a complete Haskell program, run the compiler like \ so: \ \ ghc --make Main \ \ where the module Main is in a file named Main.hs (or Main.lhs) in the \ current directory. The other modules in the program will be located \ and compiled automatically, and the l 21:11:14 `? gcc 21:11:15 gcc: no input files 21:11:18 gcc? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:11:23 `? ghc 21:11:27 ghc? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:11:28 `ghc zalgo.hs 21:11:28 `zalgoerjan 21:11:33 ​ \ zalgo.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `Random' \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 21:11:35 o̎e̓r̄j͉a̻n̞ ͍ 21:12:31 `zalgørjan 21:12:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: zalgørjan: not found 21:13:03 `learn GHC is a cat that lives in Glasgow and is called Haskell, after mathematician and logician Haskell Curry, who hated the name. 21:13:07 I knew that. 21:13:37 `which learn 21:13:40 ​/hackenv/bin/learn 21:13:50 `cat /hackenv/bin/learn 21:13:53 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | tr A-Z a-z) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." 21:14:13 `ls wisdom 21:14:17 ls: cannot open directory wisdom: Permission denied 21:14:29 D: 21:14:38 `? GHC 21:14:40 try pastewisdom. 21:14:41 GHC is a cat that lives in Glasgow and is called Haskell, after mathematician and logician Haskell Curry, who hated the name. 21:14:49 `pastewisdom 21:14:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31978 21:15:01 :D 21:15:03 `? coffee 21:15:05 `run ls -ld wisdom 21:15:08 Coffee is a strange hot brown liquid, often consumed, sometimes with milk and sugar. It contains chemicals considered stimulants. 21:15:10 d-wx--x--x 2 5000 5000 4096 Jan 31 21:13 wisdom 21:15:16 Dahell 21:15:19 Who did that? 21:15:36 oerjan two minutes ago 21:15:45 I don't even know if that'll work properly in Mercurial >_> 21:15:51 oerjan, so coppro wouldn't be pinged so often 21:16:00 milk and sugar in coffee are evil! 21:16:06 `? narutoversee 21:16:09 narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. 21:16:20 boily, I like milk, sugar, coffee, and water separately 21:16:23 i like how this is right after morphism 21:16:31 is it possible to have a bus factor between 0 and 1? 21:16:39 `? homestuck 21:16:40 or, generally, non-integer? 21:16:42 Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. 21:16:51 `? hexham 21:16:55 Hexham is a European town. There are nine people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Taneb looks after the ham. 21:17:00 I hate Gamzee. 21:17:02 `? finland 21:17:05 `? gamzee 21:17:06 Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 21:17:06 `? gamzee 21:17:09 gamzee? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:17:12 gamzee? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:17:14 fuck what's a gamzee 21:17:18 oh hm 21:17:21 `url wisdom 21:17:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom 21:17:26 `learn Gamzee is an alien clown that you just cannot keep down. 21:17:28 Bike: it's a clown. 21:17:30 I knew that. 21:17:33 An evil clown. 21:17:34 fuck clowns 21:17:38 -!- c00kiemon5ter has left ("bbl"). 21:17:42 A clown you cannot keep down. 21:17:48 `learn Gamzee is an alien clown that you just cannot keep down, hated by many. 21:17:49 ais523: maybe if someone is hit by a bus and paralyzed but only in one side 21:17:51 I knew that. 21:18:13 `? Gamzee 21:18:16 Gamzee is an alien clown that you just cannot keep down, hated by many. 21:18:21 hm not very useful 21:18:28 I wonder if hg is temporarily adding +r to index the dir... 21:18:32 is ThatOtherPerson not someone who was here before 21:19:11 `? everyone 21:19:15 Everyone in here is mad. 21:19:24 pfeuh. I'm not mad, just a fool. 21:19:37 `? pi 21:19:41 pi is a very round number. 21:19:45 `? pie 21:19:49 I like pie \ I like pie 21:20:04 `burma 21:20:07 `? burma 21:20:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: burma: not found 21:20:11 ask Bike 21:20:21 Bike, `? burma 21:21:00 burma is a mystical land of over two dozen ceasefires in as many years 21:21:16 `? saudi 21:21:19 saudi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:21:20 I think my grandfather was stationed there at some point 21:21:22 Burma, that is 21:21:32 wwii? 21:21:40 Post-wwii, I think 21:21:49 50's, maybe 21:21:52 i think a lot of people's grandfathers were stationed there at some point 21:22:14 maybe they were there to pretend the KMT weren't utterly fucked or something 21:22:37 I heard a story about how he, because it was so cold at night, kept a bottle of beer under his bed at night and had it as a lollipop during the day 21:22:58 `run (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/') >bin/pastewisdom 21:23:02 No output. 21:23:46 `? homestuck 21:23:49 `ls bin/pastewisdom 21:23:50 Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. 21:23:53 bin/pastewisdom 21:23:58 `cat bin/pastewisdom 21:24:02 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 21:24:14 coolio 21:24:31 `? Pietbot 21:24:35 Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. 21:24:44 I need to rewrite pietbot 21:24:59 By which I mean "write" 21:25:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:25:01 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:25:02 But first... 21:25:06 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away. 21:25:32 `learn Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. Best summarized by http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05743.gif 21:25:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:25:36 I knew that. 21:25:49 `? homestuck 21:25:53 Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. Best summarized by http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05743.gif 21:26:04 which one of those is gamzee 21:26:24 none 21:26:59 well fuck, then who's driving the damn bus? 21:28:38 Bike: this one's gamzee: http://goo.gl/5eoRG 21:29:21 that's some pretty avant-garde clowning he's got going 21:30:24 Bike: as is this one: http://goo.gl/AE8co 21:31:19 those don't look the same at all. i don't think they're the same one. 21:31:41 eh, one isn't canon 21:32:31 WHY AM I TALKING ABOUT HOMESTUCK??? I need to leave. quickly. 21:32:51 ^ul (Try some Underload instead)S 21:32:51 Try some Underload instead 21:33:03 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:33:29 -!- augur has joined. 21:34:19 fungot, do you get this homestuck thing? 21:34:20 Bike: description: this routine is called indirect because the visible screen area starts at first sight. look at them even if it was an ascii colon, 58 ( 3a) to determine what machine lan- guage. functions which return a random number generator for games. 21:34:33 so... no. 21:34:40 ^style homestuck 21:34:40 Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) 21:34:41 ^ul ((::**)~^)((((:(((((((((((_)(9))(8))(7))(6))(5))(4))(3))(2))(1))(0)(!^))~*^^S!)(:a(~^)*~(()(~(~(:a~*):^))(a))~*^^)):^(()~)~**~^(:)~((a(~^)*~**)~a)~a(**~:((:)~(*)**)~a*~(^))**a(~*^^^!!^)***(~)~a(~a*^:)**a(:)**~^!!!a(~^)*~**)~a((, )S:^)**^):^ 21:34:42 3, 13, 1113, 3113, 132113, 1113122113, 311311222113, 13211321322113, 1113122113121113222113, 31131122211311123113322113, 132113213221133112132123222113, 11131221131211132221232112111312111213322113, 31131122211311123113321112131221123113111231121123222113, 132113213221133112132123123112111311222112 ...out of time! 21:35:40 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:35:48 fungot, how about now? 21:35:49 Bike: you have a great appreciation for the fine arts. you use the hammer and nails. they will come a day 21:36:04 not "there"? 21:37:07 what's fungot? 21:37:07 ThatOtherPerson: examine the wall behind a door there? or why he always was a little cagey, even when discussing the proper thanks. two more large gizmos. it was once the island 21:37:15 nobody knows ThatOtherPerson 21:37:43 And how does he know the number of the first page of homestuck? 21:37:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:38:19 fungot: what are you? 21:38:20 ThatOtherPerson: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? 21:38:25 fungot: what are you? 21:38:25 ThatOtherPerson: a place perhaps the only who enjoys the feel of the brittle human calcium based skull, it would be the concept of a soul isn't forfeit in service of informing them how stupid they were being insincere for the benefit of the doubt? 21:38:50 fungot: Are you creating some sort of Markov chain? 21:38:50 ThatOtherPerson: what the hell is that? it's so depressing, you can't out troll me in these like 21:39:25 ^stule 21:39:30 ^style 21:39:30 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:39:45 ^style fungot 21:39:45 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 21:39:56 fungot: hello? 21:40:01 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:40:09 fungot: what are you? 21:40:13 fungot has a style that's fed by its own inane jabbering? X-D 21:40:13 TwilightSpockle: ( ( ( a()**)a*:a*)(a()**)a*:a*)((x1)(x2)(x3)) ...out of time! don't let?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's 21:40:27 fungot doesn't like ThatOtherPerson? 21:40:28 :O 21:40:28 TwilightSpockle: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has more bizarre results. it was, that he was overcome with the vastness, profundity, and fnord bray, remember me; and with an awe that is almost superstitious. i should perhaps make a few of those virtues which is the bit-reversal of the statement is encountered, it is also readily than they just never put things into 21:40:39 ^style homestuck 21:40:39 Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) 21:41:02 fungot: what is this human emotion called friendship? 21:41:02 ThatOtherPerson: try again. 21:41:13 fungot: What pumpkin? 21:41:14 ThatOtherPerson: not that it would actually bother pitying you. and anyway, the thing gives a shit in the veil. 21:41:21 oh wait 21:41:48 it's creating sentences from sentences in homestuck 21:42:05 So it must be making Markov chains or something 21:42:20 *nod* 21:42:27 ^help 21:42:27 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 21:42:39 ^show style 21:42:42 fungot: what is homestuck? 21:42:42 ThatOtherPerson: the sylladex reconfigures itself into an array of humorous and mystical artifacts, each one a devastating the battlefield in the center of the medium in which the cards present some convenience. 21:43:01 hm i forget how to look up the source 21:43:03 that almost started to sound like a proper sentence. 21:43:33 fungot: captchalogue the cake. 21:43:33 ThatOtherPerson: will that make life possible 21:43:58 fungot: captchalogue 21:44:17 fungot: Who is Betty Crocker? 21:44:28 Sorry for the botspam D: 21:46:02 it's not botspam, it's just old plain regular bot abuse (now with 20% more fibres!) 21:46:13 ^bool 21:46:13 Yes. 21:46:16 ^bool 21:46:16 No. 21:46:18 ^bool 21:46:18 No. 21:46:43 fungot: Dave Strider 21:46:50 fungot: who is dave strider? 21:47:05 I think he hates me now 21:47:33 ^source 21:47:33 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 21:47:41 right 21:47:49 that should answer any of your remaining questions, ThatOtherPerson 21:48:05 O_o 21:48:09 what lanuage is that 21:48:16 *language 21:48:30 befunge 98 21:48:45 it's pretty easy, just follow the arrows 21:49:09 * ThatOtherPerson follows the yellow brick road instead 21:50:20 ThatOtherPerson, fungot is programmed to ignore people who ping him too much, HTH 21:50:21 Phantom__Hoover: you have a great appreciation for the fine arts. you use the hammer and nails. they will come a day when you will be thrust into another stupid wall indent8tion in my desk with the others 21:51:14 Phantom__Hoover: ah, thanks :D 21:51:23 yep, too much botspam 21:54:39 ah! that reminds me: I have a bot to sacrifice to this channel. 21:55:07 -!- cuttlefish has joined. 21:55:15 ~yi 21:55:15 Your divination: "Abounding" to "Skinning" 21:55:19 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb. 21:55:30 ThatOtherPerson: go ahead, make it crash. 21:58:00 ~what 21:58:00 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 21:58:23 ~eval 4 21:58:24 Error (127): 21:58:30 thanks 21:58:30 ~eval x 21:58:31 Error (127): 21:58:33 ~eval 1+2 21:58:33 Error (127): 21:58:36 this is a great bot boily i love it 21:58:41 just a moment, have to reinstall mueval... 21:59:09 (meanwhile, it is as informative as that J bot...) 21:59:14 `addquote ~eval 1+2 Error (127): this is a great bot boily i love it 21:59:18 945) ~eval 1+2 Error (127): this is a great bot boily i love it 21:59:28 noooooo! 21:59:30 darn. 21:59:37 * boily hangs his head in shame... 21:59:52 ~metar 21:59:52 --- ~metar station 21:59:57 ~metar hello 21:59:57 ~eval let 2 = 3 in 2 + 2 21:59:57 --- Station not found! 21:59:58 4 22:00:04 ~metar edinburgh 22:00:06 --- Station not found! 22:00:08 ~metar CYUL 22:00:08 CYUL 312144Z 27021G30KT 2SM R24L/3000V6000FT/U -SN BKN015 OVC035 M06/ RMK SC6SC2 22:00:11 help 22:00:12 oh 22:00:36 i give cuttlefish 10/10 for its intuitive interface & user experience 22:00:53 ~metar EGPH 22:00:54 EGPH 312150Z 25012KT 9999 -SHRA SCT018TCU BKN032 06/04 Q0998 22:01:02 ~fortune 22:01:02 Little known fact about Middle Earth: The Hobbits had a very sophisticated 22:01:02 computer network! It was a Tolkien Ring... 22:01:12 hyuk hyuk hyuk 22:01:15 are cuttlefish's axons myelinated? 22:01:34 Bike: no idea. the libs I use won't compile with GHC 7.6. 22:01:48 ~dice 22:01:48 --- ~dice sides [number] 22:01:48 --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 22:01:57 so what is ~eval meant to do 22:01:58 see, I put in some help and docs! 22:01:59 ~metar CTUL 22:01:59 --- Station not found! 22:02:01 ~eval 1 22:02:01 1 22:02:03 oh cool 22:02:04 ~eval fix 22:02:05 Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show ((a0 -> a0) -> a0)) 22:02:05 arising from a use of `M8445273017039537125.show_M8445273017039537125' 22:02:05 Possible fix: 22:02:05 add an instance declaration for (GHC.Show.Show ((a0 -> a0) -> a0)) 22:02:06 elliott: ~eval evals haskell. 22:02:10 ~eval fix id 22:02:11 Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 22:02:11 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:02:11 arising from a use of `M4680099139340856389.show_M4680099139340856389' 22:02:11 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 22:02:11 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 22:02:11 Note: there are several potential instances: 22:02:11 instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Double 22:02:12 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' 22:02:12 instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Float 22:02:13 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' 22:02:13 instance (GHC.Real.Integral a, GHC.Show.Show a) => 22:02:14 GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Real.Ratio a) 22:02:14 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Real' 22:02:15 ...plus 42 others 22:02:21 no extended defaulting I see 22:02:25 ~eval fix id :: () 22:02:27 Error (1): 22:02:31 great error 22:02:41 elliott: well, I kinda kludged something together one day... >_>... 22:03:18 and for eval, I embrace the good old ed philosphy of being consistent with the error messages. 22:03:27 ~eval let x :: Int; x = x in x 22:03:29 Error (1): 22:03:41 s/consistent/spamming/ 22:03:55 oerjan: it ain't spam, it's poetic. 22:04:08 so can i do file i/o with cuttlefish 22:04:15 ~eval print () 22:04:15 Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 22:04:16 arising from a use of `M8663862707215102090.show_M8663862707215102090' 22:04:16 Possible fix: 22:04:16 add an instance declaration for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 22:04:28 i fucking love these type variables by the way 22:04:41 :t let f x = (x,x); g = f . f; h = g. g in h 22:04:43 t -> ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))) 22:04:44 I may have disabled IO I think. maybe. perhaps. I don't remember. 22:04:47 :t let f x = (x,x); g = f . f; h = g . g; i = h . h in i 22:04:48 t -> ((((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 22:04:49 t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))))), ((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 22:04:49 t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 22:04:49 t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))))), (((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 22:04:49 t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))))), ((((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), 22:04:50 (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))))), (((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, 22:04:52 t)))), ((((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t))), (((t, t), (t, t)), ((t, t), (t, t)))))))) 22:04:54 hooray! 22:05:22 ~eval let f x = (x,x); g = f . f; h = g . g; i = h . h; j = i . i; k = j . j; l = k . k; m = l . l; n = m . m; o = n . n; p = o . o; q = p . p; r = q . q; s = r. r; t = s . s; u = t . t in u () 22:05:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:05:24 Error (1): 22:05:32 does it just have like a half a second time limit 22:05:53 where did I put that config file again... 22:06:19 so, in the future, are all ddosses going to be through difficult to typecheck bullshit 22:06:34 ~eval ap (+) succ 2 22:06:34 5 22:06:41 ~eval unsafeCoerce 22:06:41 Error (1): Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce' 22:06:44 ~eval Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce 22:06:44 Error (1): Not in scope: `Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce' 22:06:51 ~eval System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO 22:06:51 Error (1): Not in scope: `System.IO.Unsafe.unsafePerformIO' 22:06:55 oh I know 22:06:58 no System.IO. 22:07:08 and you should have 3 seconds per request. 22:07:16 ~eval let unsafeCoerce v = z where z :: v; z = v where aux = const v in unsafeCoerce 32 :: () 22:07:16 Error (1): Couldn't match expected type `v1' with actual type `t' 22:07:16 `v1' is a rigid type variable bound by 22:07:16 the type signature for z :: v1 at :1:35 22:07:16 `t' is a rigid type variable bound by 22:07:16 the inferred type of unsafeCoerce :: t -> v at :1:5 22:07:24 ~eval let unsafeCoerce v = z where z :: v; z = v where aux = const v in () 22:07:24 Error (1): Couldn't match expected type `v1' with actual type `t' 22:07:24 `v1' is a rigid type variable bound by 22:07:24 the type signature for z :: v1 at :1:35 22:07:24 `t' is a rigid type variable bound by 22:07:24 the inferred type of unsafeCoerce :: t -> v at :1:5 22:07:26 lame 22:07:37 sorry, that's what I was stuck with last time. 22:07:40 have to go. 22:07:47 see you tomorrow, maybe! 22:07:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:07:51 rip boily 22:07:52 -!- cuttlefish has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:02 missed but not forgotten 22:08:09 elliott: who? 22:08:11 i like the implication that haskell's neurons were myelinated before 7.6 though 22:10:40 fungot: how's it going? 22:10:40 kmc: just be patient, the answer, the fact remained except a note of this, since it just looks so 8ad! 22:11:33 Help I am surrounded by balloons 22:11:45 They are wishing me a happy 50th birthday 22:12:02 happy birthday Taneb 22:12:13 happy birthday!! :D 22:12:13 Apparently I am now 50 22:12:21 Which makes me older than both my parents 22:12:28 combined? 22:12:33 congratulations Taneb!!!! 22:12:34 Not quite 22:13:59 yay Taneb! 22:14:09 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 22:14:18 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:16:39 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 22:25:23 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:25:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:30:19 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:42:15 The balloons left as swiftly as they appeared... 22:42:27 although I have the strangest feeling it was not the last of them. 22:42:30 so are you not 50 any more? 22:42:35 Who knows 22:43:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:43:26 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 22:43:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:44:36 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 22:45:13 hello 22:45:14 Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 22:45:18 @messages 22:45:18 oerjan said 1h 52m 35s ago: Thank you! 22:47:37 g'day. also i sent you an email back. 22:48:54 yup 22:48:58 emails?!?!?! 22:49:01 can I get an email 22:49:26 * Arc_Koen grips his email protectively 22:50:26 oerjan: the ocaml version was not the most recent because I made several small fixes or small modifications and I didn't want to bother zzo38 for every one of them 22:50:49 uh huh. 22:51:20 ) 'Is Jconn still here?' 22:51:20 Sgeo: Is Jconn still here? 22:51:37 ) 'a'+'b' 22:51:38 oerjan: |domain error 22:51:38 oerjan: | 'a' +'b' 22:51:43 WEAK 22:52:04 ) 'a'^'b' 22:52:04 Arc_Koen: |domain error 22:52:04 Arc_Koen: | 'a' ^'b' 22:52:05 ) 'friend' 22:52:05 elliott: friend 22:52:10 :') 22:54:35 If hypothetically I were to try to implement Brainfuck in J, would I use sequential machine? 22:54:45 Because I have no idea how it works but it looks possibly relevant 22:56:24 ) (<1);(<2) 22:56:24 Sgeo: +---+-+ 22:56:24 Sgeo: |+-+|2| 22:56:24 Sgeo: ||1|| | 22:56:24 Sgeo: |+-+| | 22:56:24 Sgeo: +---+-+ 22:56:39 Well, that's weird 22:58:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:04:22 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:09:29 ) <1; <2 23:09:29 oerjan: +-----+ 23:09:30 oerjan: |+-+-+| 23:09:30 oerjan: ||1|2|| 23:09:30 oerjan: |+-+-+| 23:09:30 oerjan: +-----+ 23:09:42 ) 1;2 23:09:42 oerjan: +-+-+ 23:09:42 oerjan: |1|2| 23:09:42 oerjan: +-+-+ 23:10:07 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:10:07 -!- aloril has joined. 23:10:10 ) (<1);2 23:10:10 oerjan: +---+-+ 23:10:10 oerjan: |+-+|2| 23:10:10 oerjan: ||1|| | 23:10:10 oerjan: |+-+| | 23:10:10 oerjan: +---+-+ 23:10:18 ) (<1);(<<2) 23:10:18 oerjan: +---+---+ 23:10:18 oerjan: |+-+|+-+| 23:10:18 oerjan: ||1|||2|| 23:10:18 oerjan: |+-+|+-+| 23:10:18 oerjan: +---+---+ 23:10:37 ) (<1);<(<2) 23:10:37 c00kiemon5ter: +---+---+ 23:10:37 c00kiemon5ter: |+-+|+-+| 23:10:37 c00kiemon5ter: ||1|||2|| 23:10:37 c00kiemon5ter: |+-+|+-+| 23:10:37 c00kiemon5ter: +---+---+ 23:11:16 ) 1;(<2;(<3;(<4))) 23:11:16 oerjan: +-+---------+ 23:11:16 oerjan: |1|+-+-----+| 23:11:16 oerjan: | ||2|+-+-+|| 23:11:16 oerjan: | || ||3|4||| 23:11:16 oerjan: | || |+-+-+|| 23:11:16 oerjan: ... 23:11:37 ) 1;(2;(3;(4))) 23:11:37 oerjan: +-+-+-+-+ 23:11:37 oerjan: |1|2|3|4| 23:11:37 oerjan: +-+-+-+-+ 23:11:40 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:27:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:28:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:38:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:50:48 -!- TeruFSX has joined.