00:00:52 non-associative semicategory 00:01:26 ok this is another term that i google and the only instance is me making the joke here before 00:01:39 non-associative semicategories, like the word "apple" 00:01:51 oerjan: again with dead people. are you a zombie or something? <-- try bribing me with brains... 00:02:57 will brawn do? delicious, savoury brawn spread on hot and buttered toasts? 00:03:06 MAYBE 00:03:52 brawn on bran over brain 00:04:17 the new BBBBLT sandwich. 00:05:39 can you add some brown cheese? 00:05:46 sort of seems to fit 00:05:53 what's brown cheese? 00:06:00 norwegian specialty 00:06:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunost 00:07:06 I think I can find that somewhere. 00:07:14 oh well. time to go eat again. 00:07:15 compulsory part of our foreigner test kit, together with lutefisk 00:07:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Messmor.jpg this is disgusting 00:07:25 lutefisk will come after that. 00:07:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 00:07:30 -!- cuttlefish has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:08:03 Hmm... I think I'm going to write some repetitive code for the sake of occasional TCO 00:08:34 nooooo don't write repetitive code 00:08:38 sgeo 00:08:39 dont 00:08:50 "what monqy said" (am i doing this right) 00:09:04 I'm sure I could make it unrepetitive 00:09:15 then why don't you 00:09:25 It will still make the code slightly uglier 00:09:48 what do you mean by tco anyway 00:09:51 Sgeo: is this like when interpreting the last element of a list? it rings a bell 00:10:14 Yes 00:10:49 If the last element that I'm interpreting is Compile, then there's no more work to be done save for that Compile, which starts interpreting the next element on the compiler stack 00:10:59 maybe you should use a different data structure alt. not care because this is a silly proof of concept and not a production quality whatever the heck you're making 00:11:29 i think it came up similarly for ^ in an underload interpreter 00:11:37 or was it elliott's compiler 00:12:02 Compile being the last element is going to be the most common case, I think 00:13:15 I can make the rare case work by simply calling to the common case while protecting the state, I think 00:13:25 what's sgeo doing 00:13:33 nooodl_: TCO'ing 00:13:52 There is an StateT s m a thing that calls StateT s m a while reverting back afterwards, right? 00:14:28 what do you mean by while reverting 00:14:55 :t mapStateT 00:14:57 (m (a, s) -> n (b, s)) -> StateT s m a -> StateT s n b 00:15:08 That is, something like 00:15:12 wrong mapping thing 00:15:26 StateT s m a -> StateT s m a 00:15:39 are you looking for something like `local` 00:15:43 Possibly 00:15:50 local works on StateT? 00:15:50 what's possibly 00:15:54 no 00:16:33 withStateT I think I saw which the name makes me think along those lines 00:16:54 Wait, no 00:17:00 how about you use precise words to describe what you want 00:17:22 I want to take a stateful action and execute it and then undo the changes to the state 00:17:27 ok 00:18:02 Possibly get >>= runStateT / 00:18:03 ? 00:18:18 Erm, well, something along those lines 00:18:41 get >>= \s -> do v <- x; put s; return v 00:18:50 i was just about to say that but with applicative notation 00:18:53 "much prettier" 00:19:14 i'm not sure you can do it with only applicative notation 00:19:20 i mean 00:19:31 instead of just part of it 00:19:37 x <* put s i guess 00:19:40 yes 00:19:49 I also don't need the result 00:19:52 ok 00:19:54 I'm doing it for the side effects 00:19:57 ok 00:20:34 anyway, the above should work 00:20:54 no it won't!!!! keeping the result around ⇒ bloat ⇒ unacceptable 00:20:55 unless you need to catch throws inside x too 00:21:06 *from inside 00:21:16 and reset the state even then 00:26:07 What's wrong with my runStateT solution? 00:28:08 Halite, if you're interested in learning how to write interpreters, the standard first language to target is eodermdrome <-- nice try 00:29:30 it's my master plan 00:29:36 someday a savant will enter the channel 00:29:48 and we will all be propelled into a glorious new dawn 00:32:58 FUCK YOU KATE 00:33:24 Typing on a line beginning with [] does NOT mean "indent me indent me please please please" 00:34:37 oh dear, is it making your brainfuck code too unreadable 00:37:38 It's turning my correct Haskell code into incorrect Haskell code 00:37:56 :t runStateT 00:37:58 StateT s m a -> s -> m (a, s) 00:39:38 Blah, oerjan's way was easier 00:41:02 My code, as it currently stands 00:41:06 It compiles so far :) https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/fe54715fc61d1d98f4cc 00:42:02 oh 00:42:10 in that case; why are you using kate 00:42:49 Because it wasn't irritating me until just then 00:42:59 I can live with sometimes faulty code hilighting 00:43:27 but there's a whole hierarchy of why here 00:43:34 for instance: why are you using kde 00:44:21 Because I like KDE? Also this system is a bit broken, in such a way that whether I'm using KDE or GNOME tends to vary on whether X works when I boot up 00:44:28 Although X has been working, so 00:44:34 ah linux 00:44:53 i do recall switching to KDE because i fuckxed up my GNOME install 00:45:56 i think the horrific brokenness that ultimately trashed my laptop started when i experimented briefly with kde 00:46:04 it's a gateway drug 00:58:30 I can feel this thing getting closer to completion 01:07:34 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:16:45 I just need to remember how to parse parens 01:16:50 Parens, my eternal nemesis 01:20:33 Conceptually, the code I'm writing is the result of compiling ,+[-:,+]! by hand 01:21:13 (EOF=-1) 01:25:20 :t runWriter 01:25:22 Writer w a -> (a, w) 01:26:34 :t execState 01:26:36 State s a -> s -> s 01:26:43 I never rember exec vs eval 01:28:01 I wonder if the State monad is good or bad for my globals addiction 01:28:19 With it, one writes code that looks like it's accessing a global, but it's all confined 01:28:47 On the one hand, it lets me write in that style, on the other, when I move into other languages... 01:29:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:36:01 globals addition 01:37:41 ****addiction 01:39:14 ★★★★hi monqy 01:40:54 hi 01:41:15 @quote monqy 01:41:15 Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list 01:42:19 What might an interpreted Trustfuck look like/! 01:42:33 good question 01:46:22 i wonder if there are good generalizations of poker 01:47:06 there's kolmogorov poker 01:47:21 where instead of a fixed hand ranking, you can challenge someone's hand by producing a shorter program to generate your hand 01:47:39 probably a p. shitty game tho 02:02:03 Sgeo: most languages have some way to confine 'globals' 02:02:46 i like how the Linux kernel shoehorns basically a fourth layer of scoping for static-storage variables into the C language 02:04:15 'static' vars in functions have static scope, 'static' vars at file level have file scope, non-'static' vars at file level are scoped to a whole kernel module 02:04:26 but if you want it to be visible outside that kernel module you have to add EXPORT_SYMBOL(foo) as well 02:05:06 * Sgeo decides that the state monad is analogous to dynamic scoping 02:05:16 With an implicit name 02:09:55 and only one value 02:18:20 the reader monad with its local might fit even better. 02:23:22 kmc: That's one of those tricky linker tricks, isn't it? 02:24:13 Maybe I should just have one very long line representing the bulk of the program 02:24:23 Rather than a multitude 02:24:55 what do you mean by that 02:25:12 code = all the code in the program save for two lines 02:25:17 * Sgeo is deja vuing 02:25:39 This program needs to ultimately output almost itself save for two lines 02:25:55 And those two lines are different 02:26:13 pikhq: well, the trick is just that the kernel has its own dynamic linker/loader for modules, and so gets to decide which symbols are dynamically resolvable 02:26:26 i don't actually know if they implement this layer of scoping when stuff gets compiled in 02:26:39 you might need unique names anyway for the compiled-in case 02:27:24 They probably do; as far as I know, they link each module into a single object and then vmlinuz is linked from those. 02:27:35 mm 02:27:53 (binutils has some thing where you can link a bunch of objects into a single object file that's still not fully linked...) 02:30:39 there's ld -r 02:33:56 Sgeo: do you know about explicit {} blocks in haskell? 02:34:16 For things like do? Yes 02:34:32 so that you don't need to care about layout 02:35:15 Some of these functions are on multiple lines. I don't see what's wrong with just outputting what's here 02:35:56 just trying to help in case getting indentation right trips you up 02:35:56 Seriously, it's going to output a mostly-quine with two things changed, and those two things are not functions 02:36:02 Ok 02:36:56 > let a=1; b=2 in a+b 02:36:57 3 02:38:28 * Sgeo sets indentation to none 02:38:32 Fuck you, fuck you, and fuck you Kat 02:38:34 Kate 02:39:34 lol 02:39:43 an omnishambles 02:41:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:44:16 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 02:45:49 TYPING THE WORD IN DOES NOT MEAN INDENT INSANELY 02:46:09 Nor does typing a comma 02:50:59 Meh, my parser is not perfect at detecting unbalanced [] 02:52:07 It assumes [ have a ] at the end if there isn't, and ] followed by nothing might just be dropped 02:52:13 Is this a big deal? 02:57:24 what i did in the fueue brainfuck interpreter was to keep a flag of whether i'm already inside a loop. then it's easy to discern those cases. 02:59:29 :t runStateT 02:59:30 then in either case, exactly one of ] and eof are permitted to occur. 02:59:30 StateT s m a -> s -> m (a, s) 03:02:07 mind you, in haskell it should still be simpler to use parsec. 03:02:25 Probably >.> 03:02:46 Right now I'm so close to getting this working 03:02:48 fsvo working 03:06:24 A 4,886 character line 03:06:32 Maybe this is not the best idea for readability 03:07:11 Oh crud 03:11:00 hm? 03:11:08 I forgot to write main 03:11:13 At least, that what that crud was about 03:11:16 Currently having another crud 03:11:21 This program is going to be a PITA to edit 03:11:48 what were you expecting 03:12:38 Not to need to edit it very much 03:13:32 monqy: Something ... someone ... nothing. 03:13:42 Are you hungry? 03:13:50 ???????????????? 03:14:25 hi 03:14:46 hi 03:14:49 did you ever explain comma categories 03:15:11 or was it just that "limited version" of them 03:15:31 i explained the specific instance of them you want for free objects...for a more general explanation you'd be better served just looking them up 03:15:54 good point 03:16:18 mr.hird and i did a few "adjunctions" to get "free functors´ 03:16:23 it was p. great 03:16:39 alrite 03:16:50 https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/fe54715fc61d1d98f4cc 03:16:54 Still need to test it 03:17:11 monqy: you know how you can make the "Cont monad" out of adjunction of (-> r) -| (-> r)? 03:17:25 probably you've said that? maybe??? idk 03:17:34 going into Haskᵒᵖ 03:17:44 monqy: its "pretty nifty" 03:18:10 monqy: have you ever noticed that Cont'sjoin = contramap (Cont'sreturn)?? 03:19:04 primitive.o: In function `rQf_info': 03:19:04 (.text+0xa74): undefined reference to `mtlzm1zi1zi0zi2_ControlziMonadziTrans_zdfMonadIOIO_closure' 03:19:07 wat 03:19:27 mtl-1.1.0.2_Control.Monad.Trans_$fMonadIOIO_closure 03:19:27 hth 03:19:33 probably you did something bad 03:21:05 Not only that, I tried to mess around in GHCi a bit 03:21:06 There's a big 03:21:08 bug 03:21:36 ouch 03:21:49 That big was a typo for bug 03:21:52 a big 03:21:53 bug? 03:21:57 that soudns dangerous 03:22:10 so big that you have to pause after saying big 03:22:26 As soo as it saw , as input it output 03:22:34 i've written some pretty terrible bugs 03:22:40 but i've never written a big 03:22:41 bug 03:24:34 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:28:10 There's no bug. I'm just an idiot. 03:28:29 yay! 03:29:12 Well, there's still a bug 03:29:17 Just not what I was thinking 03:29:30 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:30:01 I think. 03:30:07 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:30:27 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:30:43 In this case https://plus.google.com/107913314994758123748/posts/3adHiA9yq9D 03:30:53 elliott: We should get around to doing Kan extensions. 03:31:29 Hmm, wrong channel. 03:31:45 I guess elliott is in both channels. 03:32:14 he's been idle for quite a while. 03:32:53 I know. 03:39:01 Ok, so one problem: Input is broken 03:39:18 Problem two: Output is cobroken. 03:39:31 I think loops are broken too 03:41:11 if eof then Just <$> getChar else return Nothing 03:41:14 derp 03:41:16 ƪ 03:41:35 oops 03:41:58 time of check time of use! 03:42:56 Um. I guess that's a theoretical problem with the isEOF vs my original catch-based way, but that's not the large bug 03:44:13 :t \f -> return True >>= f . guard 03:44:15 (Monad m, MonadPlus m1) => (m1 () -> m b) -> m b 03:44:34 Anyways, now to see waht the deal with loops is 03:44:35 :t \f g -> return True >>= maybe f g . guard 03:44:36 Monad m => m b -> (() -> m b) -> m b 03:44:53 :t \f g -> return True >>= fromMaybe g . guard 03:44:55 Couldn't match expected type `m0 b0' with actual type `()' 03:44:55 Expected type: Bool -> Maybe (m0 b0) 03:44:55 Actual type: Bool -> Maybe () 03:44:59 :t \f g -> return True >>= fromMaybe f g . guard 03:45:01 (Monad m, MonadPlus m1) => (m1 () -> m b) -> Maybe (m1 () -> m b) -> m b 03:45:57 :t \x -> guard :: Maybe () 03:45:58 Couldn't match expected type `Maybe ()' 03:45:58 with actual type `Bool -> m0 ()' 03:45:58 In the expression: guard :: Maybe () 03:46:02 :t \x -> guard x :: Maybe () 03:46:04 Bool -> Maybe () 03:46:17 oh 03:47:10 Ok, so loops are broken somehow 03:49:01 Or maybe output's broken, wat 03:49:30 the primTranslate cases for [] look fine to me 03:50:55 * Sgeo is assuming the problem is in interpret' 03:51:01 I'm testing things out by changing program 03:56:59 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:57:00 Well, that's one problem 03:57:06 Out doesn't continue interpretation 03:57:16 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:04:40 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:05:52 I think some of this is me failiing at Brainfuck 04:05:55 failing 04:07:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:07:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:08:13 kmc: http://www.theproofistrivial.com/ 04:09:27 "Just biject it to a trivial algebra whose elements are semi-decidable posets", sounds quite trivial. 04:09:52 I just successfully compiled and ran a trivial Trustfuck program 04:10:20 excellent. now we can take over the world. 04:10:37 The gist is now updated with the latest version 04:10:57 very good 04:11:03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM 04:11:05 truth 04:14:42 Ok, so my next test will be this: 04:15:06 Creating a compiler for a variation of Trustfuck in which each character maps to the character above it 04:15:14 And then writing a cat program in that dialect 04:15:58 Erm 04:16:05 Easiest thing to do, character below it 04:16:27 > inc 04:16:29 Not in scope: `inc' 04:16:29 Perhaps you meant one of these: 04:16:29 `int' (imported fro... 04:16:35 > succ 04:16:37 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (a0 -> a0)) 04:16:37 arising from a use of `M77076... 04:16:38 ty 04:18:04 > map pred ",+[-.,+]" 04:18:06 "+*Z,-+*\\" 04:19:44 fuck 04:21:02 I'm an idiot who can barely remember how to use his own language 04:23:45 module `main:Main' is defined in multiple files: predtest.hs 04:23:46 predtest.hs 04:23:55 Oh 04:24:14 It works! 04:24:23 I guess there are some things currently untested 04:31:56 oerjan, ais523 if you logread, anyone else? Feel free to play with it 04:38:16 I'm far too lazy to even figure out what trustfuck is 04:39:47 sgeo's brainfuck derivative 04:46:34 coppro, shall I attempt to explain it? 04:55:02 "\35\52\56\63\48" 04:55:06 > "\35\52\56\63\48" 04:55:08 "#48?0" 04:58:03 I could (should?) be storing the unparsed versions rather than the parsed versions, I think 04:58:10 Take up less space in the compiled program 04:58:25 Might be important for trying to compile that large game 05:07:29 Hmm. 05:07:43 A Trustfuck compiler targetting x86 might not require writing x86 code directly 05:13:12 Just need to write C code that alters its memory then retrieves all of its ... 05:21:46 -!- dessos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:34:16 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:35:51 > '\59' 05:35:53 ';' 05:45:53 > '\10' 05:45:55 '\n' 05:46:11 > '\64' 05:46:13 '@' 05:46:15 > '\65' 05:46:17 'A' 05:46:19 Ok 05:46:23 * Sgeo is derptastic today 05:47:53 okay 06:03:51 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:20:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:20:47 -!- DH____ has joined. 06:21:20 -!- noam has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:21:45 -!- noam has joined. 06:36:27 -!- hogeyui has joined. 06:54:10 > popCount (65::Int) 06:54:11 2 06:55:16 @ty popCount 06:55:18 Bits a => a -> Int 06:55:37 I guess it's in Bits? 06:55:40 Everything is in Bits. 06:55:41 yeah 06:55:56 @ty popSixSquishUhuhCiceroLipschitz 06:55:58 Not in scope: `popSixSquishUhuhCiceroLipschitz' 06:56:02 the ridiculous thing is, they have this function but none to find the highest set bit... 06:56:37 There isn't one for lowest set bit either, right? 06:56:52 not afaict 06:56:54 * shachaf would like to take this moment to mention that de Bruijn indices are the future. 06:57:01 OKAY 06:57:24 > toListOf bits 123 06:57:27 [True,True,False,True,True,True,True,False,False,False,False,False,False,Fa... 06:57:35 good function 06:57:46 :t bits 06:57:47 (Applicative f, Bits b, Indexable Int p) => p Bool (f Bool) -> b -> f b 06:58:27 Hmm. gzip in Haskell is probably fairly easy. Funny. 07:07:31 -!- Halite has joined. 07:08:42 hai 07:08:52 `welcome Halite, pikhq 07:08:58 Halite,: pikhq: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:09:11 `welcome ChanServ 07:09:13 ChanServ: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:09:16 lol 07:11:41 hello 07:12:19 monqy: 07:12:40 (btw that was 0006 ACKNOWLEDGE) 07:14:19 ok 07:16:10 -!- Halite has quit (Changing host). 07:16:10 -!- Halite has joined. 07:17:01 I'm trying to crash HackEgo in the other channel by sending a WHILE loop. 07:18:57 HackEgo, die 07:19:32 hackego's feelings???? 07:20:51 monqy: good point in the other channel 07:21:30 thachaf 07:21:31 HackEgo is set up with version control. Anything happens, it can be revertred 07:21:37 `ls 07:21:39 = 0 \ bin \ brainfuck.fu \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ fueue.c \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ sudo \ %sudo \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 07:21:41 you're wonqy 07:21:46 `run rm canary 07:21:49 No output. 07:21:57 `ls 07:22:01 = 0 \ bin \ brainfuck.fu \ canary \ dbg.out \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ fueue.c \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ quotese \ run~ \ share \ sudo \ %sudo \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 07:22:12 Wait, what's = 0 ? 07:22:22 `file = 0 07:22:25 = 0: ERROR: cannot open `= 0' (No such file or directory) 07:22:27 `cat = 0 07:22:29 No output. 07:22:32 `file = 0 07:22:34 = 0 : empty 07:22:43 `rm = 0 07:22:46 No output. 07:23:00 `file canary 07:23:02 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:23:05 uh 07:23:22 someone apparently succeeded! 07:23:45 file canary shouldn't kill it, right? 07:23:46 >.> 07:24:07 oh hm 07:24:19 i think maybe i did 07:24:54 iirc HackEgo isn't supposed to keep empty files, so maybe deleting one breaks things 07:26:54 weird it claims it was added by coppro's `addquote http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/36a0f4a7116c/%3D%200%20 07:28:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:29:52 oh no it existed before 07:31:31 been there a while it seems 07:32:52 can HackEgo rejoin 07:33:25 only Gregor can make it 07:33:40 he seems idle at the moment 07:34:48 he might be sleeping at this time 07:34:50 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 07:34:53 Gregor, 07:35:03 @time Gregor 07:35:05 Local time for Gregor is Thu Feb 14 02:35:04 07:35:05 Halite, play with Trustfuck for a while if you're bored 07:35:18 Sgeo, please give a TF Interpreter 07:35:26 There's no interpreter, just a compiler 07:35:43 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Trustfuck 07:36:27 https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/fe54715fc61d1d98f4cc is a Haskell file. Compile it with GHC. Then feed it Trustfuck as input, it will output some Haskell code 07:36:47 Compile that Haskell code, and run the result, and that's the Trustfuck program 07:37:11 So, let's say I have somecode.tf 07:37:13 I might do 07:37:32 ./primitive < somecode.tf > somecode.hs 07:37:41