< 1361318411 624579 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversible is just a side effect < 1361318414 681582 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: the fredkin gate has three outputs. < 1361318456 999169 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does, and if you use each output exactly once it conserves information < 1361318458 168270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: reversible languages emulating irreversible ones normally do so by having keeping a history of what happened < 1361318468 751467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be able to reverse it < 1361318529 853316 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am more interested in the conservation of information and 0-energy than reversing computation < 1361318543 548156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork, you can't talk about 'conservation of information' without a rigorous quantification of information < 1361318552 697961 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shannon information < 1361318576 465545 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise known as entropy < 1361318601 470343 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the thing reversible computing won't increase < 1361318665 633979 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom_hoover: what is the definition of reversible that the rest of the world uses? < 1361318678 391716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijective between its inputs and outputs? < 1361318707 492585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: basically that given any program, there's an inverse program that does the opposite < 1361318710 542260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can run to undo its effects < 1361318712 917571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same for subprograms < 1361318741 124854 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does sound like the definition of reversable < 1361318741 690629 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i can't believe i learnt about bijectivity in this channel < 1361318761 32153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats when Phantom_Hoover was 3 < 1361318766 490345 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361318775 293127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i am 6 i am infinitely wiser < 1361318784 549245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does bijectivity mean between classes (rather than sets)? < 1361318785 56441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no your 4 < 1361318789 111844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a thing you can talk about? < 1361318805 849284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Set theory? Come on. < 1361318807 859475 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably...? < 1361318815 95488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, how do you define adjunctions between categories that aren't locally small? < 1361318843 477133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"putting it in terms elliott can understand" < 1361318846 385519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you need for bijectivity? < 1361318857 431947 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :equality, universal and existential quantification...? < 1361318868 290070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :existence of functions or something similar, i guess < 1361318868 931553 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean to define it? < 1361318885 103111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know, man. How do classes even, like, work? < 1361318894 152362 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't they usually not < 1361318912 864477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well you need them for categories like Set.................. < 1361318916 615842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1361318935 621899 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the general opinion of set theory of category theory is "fuck that" < 1361318941 91769 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus elliott < 1361318946 624937 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... do you need adjunctions to get bijections in category theory? < 1361318955 364372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought being monic and epic was enough or sth < 1361319025 906927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1361319029 748282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which definition are you thinking of? < 1361319107 323292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to be confused < 1361319159 228399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of a bimorphism, i think < 1361319202 458085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you have the definition of adjunctions in terms of natural transformations, but I wonder how it all works when you have proper classes. < 1361319230 2806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are we even talking about proper classes, was it just a curiosity < 1361319236 815158 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd play on a #esoteric minecraft server probably < 1361319248 981128 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually been a while since i last played... < 1361319253 666880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well you did bring up bijectivity....... < 1361319262 442622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on proper classes!! < 1361319266 175442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should ask Bike. < 1361319279 212983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Bike knows? < 1361319308 652422 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope sorry i'm a fraud < 1361319311 48401 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know nothing < 1361319370 455803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is your server still based on the map of the old server < 1361319417 577077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: by the way I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_geometry was the thing I was thinking of < 1361319427 745646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: allow me to illustrate with a diagram: http://flockdraw.com/upload/8kr07f6lb00s44k80c4.png < 1361319435 7511 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing you said was named after an island? < 1361319451 627440 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes that diagram < 1361319471 716462 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty helpful < 1361319512 36299 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh i'm pretty sure you can just quantify over members of classes same as you do sets < 1361319747 304607 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it depends on what version of set theory you use < 1361319786 567892 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1361319791 274549 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing an obvious one like NBG since shachaf wasn't more specific < 1361319940 951633 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/92257/in-nbg-set-theory-how-could-you-state-the-axiom-of-limitation-of-size-in-first-o looks pretty standard < 1361319989 969744 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1361320048 199635 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1361320368 478469 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is set theory with sets of any "rank" that can contain smaller rank sets? < 1361320409 460541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell us another one, Bertrand < 1361320416 275179 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zfc < 1361320445 696522 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i bet russell could play piano < 1361320456 943686 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if he was actually any good or if it was just a forced in kidhood thing < 1361320457 417299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean instead of only sets and proper classes to have however much you want as long as you know which one it is < 1361320537 776123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i heard he was a natural < 1361320548 78229 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how zfc works < 1361320594 369515 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :V_0 = empty, V_{n+1} = P(V_n) and then you get sick of this and throw in vector bundles < 1361320659 767089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think instead of this category nonsense I should learn a few real maths. < 1361320666 388883 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, er < 1361320673 541640 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't P({}) {} < 1361320680 665419 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's {{}} < 1361320684 464005 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1361320697 849416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah duh < 1361320714 862566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: can he play the peano < 1361320718 68856 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1361320718 733928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shachaf already made the joke < 1361320723 246102 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like yours better < 1361320743 238570 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i like that maths has moved far enough for Principia Mathematica to be considered concrete relative to something < 1361320786 922042 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe after category theory mathematicians will just roll around on the floor laughing < 1361320813 109811 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know some mathematicians think category theory is just a load of abstract nonsense < 1361320849 379972 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard that from somebody who works on infinitary logic. < 1361320864 32394 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: is your server still based on the map of the old server // no < 1361320867 154108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but nobody gives a shit what logicians say < 1361320878 457998 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There are so many changes, keeping the old one is almost silly. < 1361320880 83729 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1361320916 872608 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he mentioned having a friend who did category theory with games or something, kinda wish i'd asked more about it < 1361320949 51110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: EXCUSE ME < 1361320997 647379 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does infinitary logic interact with curry-howard < 1361321377 215944 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361321506 289489 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361322040 3911 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1361323294 427117 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1361323529 297548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1361323866 19757 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: New Foundations is like that < 1361323938 634109 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the axioms are: extensionality of equality, and set comprehension where there must exist a way to assign levels to things such that if "a ∈ b" appears, a must be at a lower level than b < 1361323954 866313 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all the axioms (on top of predicate logic i guess) < 1361323967 518620 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's super simple but people hate it because its consistency is independent of everything else, or something < 1361324012 611708 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people hate NF? < 1361324139 920928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I mentioned: set theory sucks. type theory 4 eva < 1361324800 411546 :Regis_!~Regis@186.222.62.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361325027 440969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make a persuasive argument < 1361325120 921731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: can you give me a good infix composition operator that isn't . < 1361325123 934607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that I can type < 1361325183 947903 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :× for the irony. < 1361325263 351081 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361325291 401407 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361325321 235304 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, surely if the symbol represents a legal function in a statically typed language, it can be typed? < 1361325329 407394 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to type × < 1361325338 948169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ∘ < 1361325351 307056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: < 1361325354 323809 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1361325359 404539 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo.......... < 1361325363 284559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what compose key do you have for \circ < 1361325365 227162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't have it < 1361325369 237507 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't allowed to make jokes?
< 1361325410 472838 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1361325411 292004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad jokes < 1361325425 154286 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i snickered for what it's worth which is one gold piece < 1361325432 435703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does sgeo redeem his gold piece < 1361325456 226812 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he have a WoW account? < 1361325647 568587 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an account on metaplace < 1361325651 682340 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when it existed < 1361325670 248036 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound like a thing that has gold pieces. < 1361325686 329990 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it had... something. Some kind of currency < 1361325696 907706 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what though < 1361325712 731570 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess you can't redeem your gp then. < 1361325718 96407 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll mark it down in my notebook for you though. < 1361325733 410701 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1361325921 839680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but seriously do you have a good compose binding for it < 1361325923 79123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is it < 1361325927 652298 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i added it as o. < 1361325935 960451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1361325936 409296 :Regis_!~Regis@186.222.62.175 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1361325938 5824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable < 1361325941 75804 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with .o = ȯ < 1361325946 694812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :o. now I sew. < 1361325972 688709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oȯóöőꙮ < 1361326008 758301 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you have ꙮ on? < 1361326042 184408 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enter that using urxvt's ISO 14755 mode < 1361326053 650200 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to say, hold down Ctrl-Shift and type A66E < 1361326084 123938 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember the codepoint value for CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O because it's p. much the best Unicode character < 1361326087 7380 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could put it on [compose].ooooooo < 1361326090 769413 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361326123 20328 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it bug you that the Unicode reference glyph has 7 eyes but the only source for the character (that i could find) has 10 eyes? < 1361326184 930376 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361326195 599802 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the consortium have a complaints box < 1361326223 515833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0.) < 1361326225 680234 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `L..' [infixr 9] of a section < 1361326225 879547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence ... < 1361326269 836473 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fuck, there are also combining character versions of cyrillic < 1361326285 157358 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for old ass manuscripts where they wrote some letters above others for no apparent reason < 1361326287 252543 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, isn't that where we got combining cyrillic millions? < 1361326288 483137 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1361326483 815466 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that where umlauts come from too < 1361326517 710815 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diareses are used in a lot of non-slavic languages though... < 1361326567 112196 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mommy where do umlauts come from?) < 1361326570 437691 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i meant in general < 1361326575 899150 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ä used to be an e over an a < 1361326585 102145 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the scribes got lazy until eventually it's just two fuckin dots < 1361326594 348457 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's neat how the sands of time wear smooth the edges of language < 1361326874 650032 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will they wear smooth the annoyances of English? < 1361326894 839410 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :English the borg language, assimilating words from other languages without at least making them consistent. < 1361327095 176332 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1361327186 626377 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1361327203 189635 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have worn smooth the annoyances of english dude < 1361327212 443721 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever thought about why we have "'s" for possession? < 1361327223 76109 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because old english had a big complicated system of declension < 1361327234 5648 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that all got lost and 's and a few other things are the only remnant < 1361327242 702483 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the suffix -ed is a reduced form of "did" < 1361327266 897391 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the suffix -ly used to be like < 1361327302 602950 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that language sort of requires a certain level of expressibility, so you gain things too < 1361327317 732129 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361327319 379241 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i dunno, "cyber-" meaning internet and tech things despite that having little or nothing to do with cybernetics < 1361327425 619983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i never thought about the possessive as a noun case until recently < 1361327448 895200 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1361327466 721253 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "nice" thing about being a monoglot is never having to think about your language at all < 1361327536 323707 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in spanish class once a classmate complained about how unintuitive "va" being a conjugation of "ir" was, and the teacher pointed out it made about as much sense as "went" from "go" < 1361327614 376671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Spanish class once, a girl asked if people switch the location of adjective and noun in their head < 1361327661 91830 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, you mean, to match english ordering? < 1361327668 483894 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361327686 621449 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an anecdote about that in hofstadter i liked < 1361327703 231534 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: even better, < 1361327704 648412 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"be" < 1361327709 316523 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[referring to Russian] The text appears to be ciphered. I will now precede to decode [into English]" < 1361327720 688161 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"be" has seven forms, which is three more than any other verb < 1361327728 840438 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the past tenses are from a different root < 1361327752 983329 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"are" and "is" have the same root? < 1361327757 369074 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, actually < 1361327767 148233 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa. < 1361327781 782392 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I /could/ be wrong < 1361327793 558877 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm pretty sure it's just was/were that have a different root < 1361327816 195374 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe was+is/were+are are splits off an earlier split :P < 1361327866 191520 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«From Middle English, from Old English is, from Proto-Germanic *isti, a form of Proto-Germanic *wesanan (“to be”), from Proto-Indo-European *h₁ésti (“is”)» < 1361327893 445648 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :versus are, «[...]from Proto-Germanic *arun (“(they) are", originally, "(they) became”)» < 1361327901 980306 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool < 1361327915 823431 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1361327946 577392 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"were" seems to be from the first actually < 1361327964 166765 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if anything this just makes your point that "be" is fucking weird stronger < 1361327978 856209 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«The paradigm of "to be" has been since the time of Proto-Germanic a synthesis of three originally distinct verb stems. The infinitive form be is from Proto-Indo-European *bʰew- (“to become”). The words is and are are both derived from Proto-Indo-European *h₁es- (“to be”). Lastly, the past forms starting with w- such as was and were are from Proto-Indo-European *h₂wes- (“to reside”).» < 1361327995 722418 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ok, you're right. < 1361328096 239866 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What do you think about the fact that an existential type can be much more memory-efficient than a record? < 1361328154 161221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. if you have class Blah a where length, width, height, volume, area, ... :: a -> Double < 1361328167 219239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you have data Shape = forall a. Blah a => Shape a < 1361328177 450642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have data Circle = Circle Double Double < 1361328215 833370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then a [Shape] will only take up as much memory as the circles, no matter how many methods you add. < 1361328264 160649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas with a (Double,Double,Double,...) record you use more memory for every value. < 1361328598 277236 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the optimization behind vtables right? < 1361328605 935669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1361328611 410525 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much a vtable. < 1361328614 975103 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good one < 1361328629 109129 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361328630 476252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't strictly about type classes. < 1361328647 519528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can represent it as exists a. (a, (a -> Double, a -> Double, ...)) < 1361328663 943008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you can share the dictionaries even when they're constructed at runtime. < 1361328688 332197 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done something similar like that too < 1361328696 71510 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's an annoying aspect of the "record of methods" approach. < 1361328712 639038 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although in my case I had Typeable as a superclass < 1361328761 187882 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it is called a vtable. < 1361328772 720934 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how physicists like trying to solve the problems of other fields because they figure they can probably do it better than the professionals? < 1361328785 503079 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stereotypically, sure < 1361328799 14728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was a stereotype about programmers. < 1361328802 165976 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers too < 1361328810 490039 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've noticed several programers that have the habit of trying to do the same to physics < 1361328818 424130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude programmers do it with everything < 1361328818 623418 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is pretty funny < 1361328821 323088 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1361328823 117051 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Maybe in some cases it is possible? Not in all cases! < 1361328826 577698 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Same with programmers) < 1361328834 836420 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite recent example is http://dotsies.org/ < 1361328841 346338 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause vision is just, like, a grid of pixels, right? < 1361328852 50719 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol for real < 1361328868 46639 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1361328869 327777 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha. < 1361328894 366603 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hobby is redesigning alphabets so i feel free to say that this one is a bad idea < 1361328904 618068 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like universal language crap but with scripts, i'll give them half a point for some originality < 1361329012 332346 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want five dots each, you can even use different encodings, such as Baudot < 1361329016 837460 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fər sɛvrl mʌnθs æi roʊt onli ɪn IPA < 1361329067 283466 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think these people legitimately recognize that applying computational techniques to this or that old field can be really powerful < 1361329073 733156 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't realize that you need to work with domain experts < 1361329074 852519 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like < 1361329076 560042 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :collect data < 1361329078 412792 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and analyze it < 1361329079 52690 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, they just do it naïvely < 1361329080 699756 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! < 1361329088 516451 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :computational physics and visions are huge and amazing fields, of course < 1361329090 928686 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just assume that if a programmer thinks about something really hard, he/she will come up with the perfect answer < 1361329091 301608 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the domane experts love new ideas < 1361329104 319565 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they love the domain < 1361329110 792387 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: btw you should write in IPA in a non-rhotic accent < 1361329117 667104 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really gets me how bad many programmers are at empiricism < 1361329131 416763 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks I don't like those little floaty rs < 1361329132 715400 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :argue forever about which way will be faster without actually running the fucking thing < 1361329147 439002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just argue about which way is better instead. < 1361329150 283492 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first CS paper I ever read had tables of times <3 < 1361329150 482493 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Untestable! < 1361329169 207490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ummm that doesn't sound like real cs..... < 1361329170 112438 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to be a college professor without being a PhD? < 1361329172 543067 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc : http://www.neverworkintheory.org/ < 1361329174 357791 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I would like that < 1361329184 496011 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you could have a master's and teach at a community college < 1361329197 636594 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. be a misunderstood genius and get an honorary degree < 1361329211 738391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Don't you have to be understood for that? < 1361329212 225945 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It was the 80s. A strange time for all of us. < 1361329228 611830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I have it on good authority the 80s didn't exist. < 1361329230 490899 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't mean a misunderstood genius. Just misunderstood. < 1361329237 635158 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: argue about which way is more elegant and awesome < 1361329249 2252 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1361329252 924605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That works too. < 1361329267 600713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everyone knows that length in bytes in the true measure of code elegance. < 1361329282 533834 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found that by the time I've heard 5 ways of doing something I have developed strong opinions about which way is best, all with out ever doing the thing < 1361329283 974265 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cool, lots of people on twitter can't distinguish between aesthetics and engineering. That's encouraging." < 1361329319 76334 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: i think people are pretty good at having strong opinions regardless of what they know, generally speaking. < 1361329330 817866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :inversely proportional in fact < 1361329388 430096 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I've seen a graph of how well people thought they did compated to how wel they did do < 1361329400 945097 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was no inverse nor inflection point < 1361329437 657798 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their estimates just had a much lower variance and a mean of 60th percentile < 1361329443 571358 :TeruFSX2!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361329450 261785 :TeruFSX2!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1361329458 644458 :TeruFSX2!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361329473 142330 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1361329512 570262 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dunning and kruger demonstrated an inverse correlation < 1361329514 887759 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although my anecdotal evidence matches up with your statement < 1361329517 707464 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how it generalizes < 1361329527 811695 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parkinson's law of triviality is also relevant here < 1361329541 28925 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have opinions on simple and unimportant things, cause everyone can understand them < 1361329558 725882 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually seems counter < 1361329577 578039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You're spreading rumours about CUPS now? < 1361329578 604872 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1361329582 411926 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should track down this last bug. < 1361329585 703721 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it said is that people failed to express opinions about things they didn't know < 1361329588 399546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"last" < 1361329595 221964 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but made up for it on the trivial things < 1361329629 140369 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1361329634 352548 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1361329659 961333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they are kind of counter < 1361329669 407163 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but both relate to silly opinions ;) < 1361329681 700735 :dessos_!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :dessos < 1361329704 541776 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at the dunning kruger graph http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/ < 1361329717 174487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there two good laws named "Parkinson's Law"? < 1361329732 269444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Named after the same person, too. < 1361329739 85381 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows that the ranking of abiliy is stable no matter your knowledge level < 1361329749 932640 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Parkinson was a cool person, obviously. < 1361329759 17995 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just the absolute vales that change < 1361329787 298526 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep seeing "Kruger" and reading "Krugman". < 1361329845 773053 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the crossing point is way higher than mediocrity. < 1361329928 290479 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crossing point depends on the difficulty of the tast < 1361329935 615031 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1361329942 812784 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with harder tasks the crossing point is lower < 1361329976 822472 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SSRI thing reminds me of the various controversies in medicine... statistics is hard to do right. < 1361329987 152917 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry about bringing in the data, but I really like graphs) < 1361330011 94172 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't apologize, this article is cool. < 1361330118 785726 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doshm < 1361330127 924117 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the link doesthiswork < 1361330143 819849 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something. < 1361330174 741118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh ok < 1361330182 598087 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should pay better attention to science :) < 1361330192 969161 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pisses off some of my facebook acquaintances, when I spoil a good story with nitpicking data < 1361330195 839501 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's particularly hard to keep up with psychology, i think... < 1361330211 344884 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently people are pretty complicated? < 1361330214 6038 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be the height of hypocrisy if i were upset about you bringing data into /this/ discussion < 1361330237 313142 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why i typed "doshm" up there or what it means < 1361330240 753821 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more mysteries of human psychology < 1361330247 860603 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was probably an attempt to tab complete your name doesthiswork < 1361330326 24413 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme the dosh < 1361330747 453728 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is an argument for why R is a good esoteric language http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2012/06/08/r-the-master-troll-of-statistical-languages/ < 1361330942 752416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :doshm | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1361330951 301541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail dosm < 1361330953 33469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean doshm < 1361330958 104694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sects have started already < 1361330987 1758 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1361330991 708224 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have i done < 1361330996 282604 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have i dunning < 1361331000 685559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo grhgh < 1361331039 992855 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite an apply < 1361331076 24719 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"string (or, in R’s nomenclature, character)" < 1361331096 233572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@arrrr < 1361331096 563915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drink up, me 'earties < 1361331162 887676 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of all the dated lines in _Hackers_, I think "RISC architecture is going to change everything" might be the best < 1361331183 316064 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the context < 1361331208 402086 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r is weird < 1361331208 601133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1361331216 340348 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another??? i just checked my messages < 1361331235 673665 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an hour ago i guess < 1361331238 135038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you check your messages in /msg every day before talking in the channel < 1361331254 133644 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've sent you several messages and never saw the monqy: You have notification before?? < 1361331288 490664 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1361331395 111253 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: two nerds nerding out as a mating ritual < 1361331399 935285 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think monqy doesn't want to respond to your messages < 1361331410 818341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: It's possible. < 1361331428 34772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's been suggested that I bug monqy too much. < 1361331436 13304 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should cut down. < 1361331437 208800 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't be right < 1361331439 855770 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i can imagine that line coming up in such a context in life < 1361331446 558487 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything you aren't monqying enough < 1361331466 68387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it is called RISC, modern ARM are really complicatd though. < 1361331474 492144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: ok who are you < 1361331478 216302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have clearly been in this channel before < 1361331484 384840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it you chris???? < 1361331510 266690 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs 75.87.251.5 < 1361331511 920794 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so, what, you think Hackers is inaccurate? < 1361331529 417511 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: That is not what I said. < 1361331532 812484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 yeah < 1361331546 667914 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1361331565 411588 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, but "ARM isn't really reduced in a meaningful sense" isn't all that interesting to talk about < 1361331574 677445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess doesthiswork has to be the kind of person who would use adium to connect to an IRC channel < 1361331579 724471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how this helps me narrow things down < 1361331589 157140 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i was just reading something about proposed x86 extensions and they're pretty wacky < 1361331605 114078 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary bit perms in constant cycles, hooray < 1361331615 411112 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what kind of person would that be? < 1361331620 697179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Unlike the accepted x86 extensions, eh? < 1361331642 274215 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1361331670 142342 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them must be at least as complicated as POLY by now < 1361331680 770458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: aaaaaaaargh < 1361331684 838938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs doesthiswork < 1361331699 154279 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3003 < 1361331706 236573 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 have removed instructions too < 1361331713 82563 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: are you a person from elliott's past that wants to annoy him into madness, because i could get behind that < 1361331737 358452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think you will find that literally everyone on the planet wnats to annoy me < 1361331751 755309 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, exactly < 1361331754 713037 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to organize < 1361331761 110988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I believe I have sufficient information to discount the hypothesis that doesthiswork is cpressey < 1361331777 493654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance you asked about a cpressey language < 1361331785 260127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only cpressey language cpressey would ask about is turkey bomb < 1361331801 928636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is cpressey < 1361331803 842968 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1361331808 329365 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is being cpressy a bad thing? < 1361331816 728353 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, elliott loves cpressey. < 1361331817 627449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: not at all < 1361331822 675825 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe doesthiswork is the mirror world version of someone you know < 1361331822 875063 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC isn't just about having fewer instructions < 1361331824 49640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: no, it's roughly the best thing < 1361331827 669602 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM has interesting RISCy properties < 1361331831 857924 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it has lots of instructions < 1361331846 779971 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM has several instruction sets < 1361331846 978908 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the initialism does stand for "reduced instruction set computer"... < 1361331855 539808 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of a second generation RISC in that it has features specifically to deal with weakness of basic RISC < 1361331870 48359 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also yeah, it has multiple instruction sets and other such stuff which makes it less RISCy < 1361331907 73312 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instruction set by itself doesn't seem like the greatest criterion, anyway, you can implement instructions in lots of ways < 1361331925 887287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there's some instruction that shachaf and Donald Knuth like, which is multiplication of two 8×8 binary matrices (as 64-bit numbers) < 1361331932 102077 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently many useful things can be expressed this way < 1361331952 61938 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fuckton of linear operators for one < 1361331966 907495 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't be surprised if SIMD has that soon really < 1361332010 204766 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's matrix * 8-bit vector, applied to each byte of the other operand < 1361332014 603777 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ^? < 1361332021 633712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : think both would be useful < 1361332034 258101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's multiplication of two matrices. < 1361332039 916536 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using AND and either OR or XOR. < 1361332084 618707 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is (or, and) a field? < 1361332157 205264 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it is < 1361332170 662345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it does is let you express each byte of the resulting matrix as OR/XOR of any selection of bytes of the source matrix, as specified by the intermediate matrix. < 1361332258 458962 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, anybody here know any German perchance? < 1361332266 158287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know how to say "segmentation fault" < 1361332276 981012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I would like is a mux instruction, like described in esolang wiki under "Muxcomp". < 1361332285 181976 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know what the hell is going on with the name "Uexküll". < 1361332292 496670 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does German even use "x"? < 1361332328 339938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uexküll (also Üxküll or Yxkull) is a Baltic-German noble family. < 1361332331 684070 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://palms.princeton.edu/system/files/IEEE_TC09_NewBasisForShifters.pdf You might find this interesting. < 1361332336 722140 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yxkull. No way. < 1361332337 344759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like there are lots of ways to spell it, but all of them use x. < 1361332357 252221 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling gives me... Swedish wikipedia < 1361332371 454658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swekipedia < 1361332466 385877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: have you accepted de Bruijn into your heart yet < 1361332487 649887 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to weird-ass Dutch names by now. < 1361332496 344376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the name. < 1361332527 711952 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person being cool is obvious. < 1361332541 683179 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ü_ü < 1361332565 949120 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gemeenschappelijke representantensystemen van twee klassen-indelingen van een verzameling. < 1361332613 129512 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1361332623 808038 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What's "segmentation fault" in Dutch? < 1361332666 868685 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :please hold < 1361332712 205029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What, running CUPS with nl_NL.UTF-8? < 1361332727 176381 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1361332758 915565 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Debian need to regenerate *every* locale < 1361332799 179980 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's more trouble to do it another way, presumably. < 1361332830 423539 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is "Segmentatiefout" < 1361332835 163571 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fout. < 1361332851 952105 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it would have been faster to install Dutch Debian on a fresh VM. < 1361333645 497469 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :double dutch debian < 1361333938 308115 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz JOIN :#esoteric < 1361334099 885653 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah they removed a bunch of single-byte increment instructions :( < 1361334103 674380 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :from x86 i mean < 1361334144 484290 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also AAA and DAA and such < 1361334736 707821 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what AAA is in amd64, it might just be reserved < 1361334749 869920 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1361334794 272853 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did it do? < 1361334820 559283 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :calls AAA to come change the tires on your computer < 1361334865 23406 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually ASCII Adjust for Addition < 1361334871 48137 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :used in BCD arithmetic < 1361334875 655966 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that the bcd- yeah. < 1361335043 73137 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that x86 traces its lineage back to a calculator processor < 1361335407 668044 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I also don't like that they removed single-byte increment and BCD arithmetic, or all the extremely complicated stuff they added, but I think it might still works outside of 64-bit mode? < 1361335414 473979 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1361335431 808169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is very particular about backwards compatibility < 1361335465 115108 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think even 16-bit protected mode is still supported < 1361335472 847468 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1361335496 932992 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ... in long mode < 1361335512 648488 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i was talking about long mode before < 1361335532 501692 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE on x86_64 uses 16-bit protected mode to run Win16 stuff. < 1361335533 683760 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1361335557 439924 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside a compat mode 32-bit process? < 1361335559 861517 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1361335567 490024 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how these layers of compatibilitiy cruft stack ;_; < 1361335574 356099 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure that's how it goes, yeah. < 1361335581 164062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 64-bit doesn't run Windows 16-bit programs. :-( < 1361335604 706944 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yeah, Microsoft decided it wasn't worthwhile to update NTVDM to actually work on x86_64. < 1361335616 315959 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no *technical* reason they couldn't, they just didn't feel like it. < 1361335625 251018 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for them < 1361335647 389571 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly, writing an 8086 emulator for the 0.001% of the population that really cares is a bit of a silly proposition) < 1361335684 581688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know someone it affected. < 1361335700 787027 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1361335710 347442 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC they *did* do some hacks for old installers. < 1361335724 676435 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because some Win32 stuff has 16-bit installers.) < 1361335818 182305 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1361335828 417030 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it makes sense, if your app has a 16- and a 32-bit exe in the same install < 1361335835 396758 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to have to write two installers < 1361335876 782531 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if your company already has in-house installer programs, you're likely to just not care that the installer's not using Win32. < 1361336180 610284 :TeruFSX2!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1361336205 119126 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1361336353 638407 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a pro-peny lobbying group < 1361336359 296738 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :penny < 1361336370 813658 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pennies.org/ < 1361336401 168672 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think should not get rid of pennies. Canadian government has stopped making them but they should continue to use it < 1361336586 387961 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :63 people liked that page < 1361336593 845203 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means that no one cares < 1361336643 625079 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't < 1361336688 953572 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing it means is that 63 people put "Like" in it. < 1361336716 751676 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't tell you how many people care, how many people dislike, or anything else. < 1361336720 624434 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://medium.com/queer-life/f62d82e13c2d trolling recruiters for social good, i like it < 1361336747 987984 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The polls show something a bit more; the "Like" shows nothing regardless how high or low it is. < 1361336773 178126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since even people who have read it, but don't have Facebook, also isn't being counted. < 1361336837 789013 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that is community service < 1361336843 812354 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i like it. < 1361336863 603549 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THere's also the employment discrimination thing on top of that... < 1361337031 47995 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me that I'm not really sure how I should refer to reassignment surgery. I used "cosmetic" once on the basis that it's not directly connected to physical failure of anything, but I pretty well immediately was told how shitty I sounded and now that I think about it I'm not sure I could explain what I was thinking. < 1361337108 100511 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1361337140 802990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call it reassignment surgery i guess < 1361337273 87972 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be too special case to fit in another category < 1361337303 770188 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe. < 1361337306 100510 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense it's surgery to fix a psychological problem rather than a physical one < 1361337312 138208 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 'psychological problem' has all kinds of stigma < 1361337315 244202 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1361337319 392470 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it's "not real" or you should just stop being crazy or whatever < 1361337360 960011 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the way we talk about LGBT issues is kind of awkwardly dodging around even more fundamental biases that people have < 1361337384 343419 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is part of why i'd like to avoid anything even close to "cosmetic", yeah < 1361337403 775720 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially after actually seeing it, for another connotation. that is not a simple operation) < 1361337593 867013 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: "Sex reassignment surgery" is one of the more common ways of referring to it. < 1361337606 525053 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure that's the best, but it's the one I default to when it comes up. < 1361337622 551966 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was trying to put it in a general category, for... some reason < 1361337716 855531 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tricky to categorize. < 1361337892 188075 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow trans-related stuff has a way of bringing up edge cases. < 1361337911 129850 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, true enough. < 1361337928 186821 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should try to wrap my mind around Idris < 1361337947 528173 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prophet? < 1361338002 232399 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://idris-lang.org/ < 1361338023 117477 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should try gardening. < 1361338126 466809 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1361338148 738443 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of language after language, I mean. < 1361338152 171526 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get your mind off things. < 1361338196 314349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, right now I'm looking at Idris to get my mind off things < 1361338344 170208 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like people making a big deal about whether being gay is a choice < 1361338352 40927 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't matter whether it's a choice < 1361338367 108898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if somebody chooses to do something that doesn't affect you at all, that is still no excuse to take away their civil rights < 1361338368 890672 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but assholes think "choice" -> "we can and should fix you". < 1361338389 70367 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the way we think about these things is generally fucked up < 1361338410 359735 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i'm arguing it is a choice < 1361338413 999057 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's a choice, but then it doesn't freaking matter. < 1361338415 88504 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, i kind of had "if transsexuals want to present as another sex and alter their bodies accordingly I have no reason to object" as my mental model for a while, but it gets stale < 1361338415 344142 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, the fact that it even matters is messed up < 1361338424 952716 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees with kmc
< 1361338447 784261 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Hey, that's starting off as a not-assholish position, so. < 1361338478 847893 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why i should care about someone else modifing their body or worry about whether their reason is good enough < 1361338492 148363 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more interesting question is, in a civilized society with socialized healthcare, should i be obliged to pay for it < 1361338504 705606 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "fortunately" in america we don't need to think about this question so much < 1361338508 876960 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so i hope, but it oversimplifies transpeople's experiences enough that i'd like to move from it more < 1361338553 313267 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first i heard of transgenderism was a webcomic by a transgender person about the problems she had to deal with, so i started out reasonably sympathetic < 1361338589 246942 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now that i actually know transgender people i know that framing it in such a fashion isn't that great, i guess < 1361338724 609935 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is a bit more than just "yeah, they want to present as another sex", so. < 1361338765 319751 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately for me it turns out that well gosh, there's not a clear-cut and obvious line of thought to look at! who woulda thought, eh < 1361338778 56017 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361338786 316742 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the SEP entries on the subject are crazy < 1361338819 204766 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEP? < 1361338827 826076 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stanford encyc. of philosophy < 1361338830 150160 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1361338842 594019 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. "Feminist Perspectives on Trans Issues" < 1361338858 284887 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With things around sex and gender, you can't go wrong assuming it's complicated. < 1361338872 552195 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much where I'm at now, yeah. < 1361339141 243861 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sex and gender/humans/ < 1361339152 317748 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the generalization. < 1361339157 391056 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :theneralization < 1361339263 749485 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :labels make me sad because they obscure the uniqueness of each person's life story; on the other hand, they are useful esp. when fighting oppression < 1361339375 367740 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i used to do the "abandon labels" thing a lot < 1361339384 275192 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :life stories are also long and don't always make sense < 1361339385 892161 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's that < 1361339388 393589 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this and other ideas i had corresponds to a popular feminist position, actually! < 1361339407 389902 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that position have... a label < 1361339432 13924 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the great thing about different types of feminism is that there are so many to choose from" < 1361339464 682203 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no hope of understanding different waves or anything :( < 1361339465 563755 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't use labels to record things it doesn't make problems go away it just means you no longer record what's happening < 1361339466 663496 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And human cognition seems to be based in labelling and categorizing things... < 1361339481 863905 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: nice way to put it. < 1361339513 236230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: thats a strong argument for always naming function arguments < 1361339516 936890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man strong argument < 1361339518 864357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am literally hilarious < 1361339524 608026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellarious < 1361339525 608133 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep your day job < 1361339533 58506 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer point free style < 1361339534 577398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike < 1361339538 106705 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quit your day job and do an agile comedy startup < 1361339538 305696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont even have a day job < 1361339541 15778 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate the shit out of that joke < 1361339546 740283 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait is your day job making bad jokes on irc < 1361339548 833893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i pivot the joke by changing the punchline < 1361339550 783280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes < 1361339554 763214 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361339554 962188 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1361339589 213655 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess it's called "performativity" or so < 1361340003 937202 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how LGBT issues came up here.
< 1361340005 303538 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1361340037 689586 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because kmc linked a page about asking tech recruiters whether they medically support trans employees. < 1361340043 436011 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1361340069 854955 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i went off on it because i am confused and ignorant. < 1361340167 390677 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't sound confused and ignorant < 1361340178 224779 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen confused and ignorant. < 1361340242 625553 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit worried for the day it actually starts effecting me, really. < 1361340249 488091 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Affecting, even. < 1361340259 894633 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :äffecting < 1361340354 947550 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a book titled "There Are Two Errors In The The Title Of This Book" < 1361340364 39415 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good? < 1361340377 492202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have had it for a while already and wrote things in it < 1361340442 859361 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose someone held a gun at your head, and said, "Believe that the Dodgers will win next year's World Series, or I'll shoot!" < 1361340460 569039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm supposing < 1361340490 920313 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you believe that God believes that you do not believe God believes that you do not believe God exists? < 1361340546 45418 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :無 < 1361340547 376247 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BG¬BG¬BE < 1361340565 876772 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :your dodgers scenario reminds me a bit of parfit's hitchhiker < 1361340579 187112 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can conveniently say "no" because I am an atheist. Checkmate, Christians. < 1361340580 610534 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It is from the book. < 1361340597 650550 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one is something I have written in the book myself. < 1361340637 647385 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the modal question from hell. I'm so bad at recursion. < 1361340668 115306 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a modal question < 1361340671 923473 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about modal logic? < 1361340676 691387 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google doxastic logic < 1361340678 385077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxastic_logic < 1361340678 584351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Doxastic logic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1361340686 206179 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this book, they say "All universal claims are false" is a false statement, but if you believe that, you have to tell me which universal claim is not false (it shouldn't be difficult); but they did not consider that in their logic! < 1361340703 120896 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very constructivist thing to say, zzo38. < 1361340724 932501 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: What kind of logic is applicable depends on the circumstances, I think. < 1361340739 614987 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many of the logical paradoxes they have may also be due to using the wrong kind of logic. < 1361340751 561230 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant that your God question is pretty doxastic. < 1361340763 559671 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so strongly against labels that when someone tries to talk about functions or groups to me, i correct them < 1361340773 178801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I don't even know what "doxastic" means but I can look it up. < 1361340776 475837 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saying it's all sets < 1361340781 110661 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are being ignorant < 1361340843 68433 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's a kind of modal logic where the modal... functions... i forget what they're called, are like "believes". Like BG¬BG¬BE is short for your question, where E = "God exists", Bx = I believe x, and Gx = God believes x. < 1361340844 842567 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can see how doxastic logic is about believing, but still, if you say "do you believe..." it has to do with *you*, not with logic. < 1361340880 47366 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it's modal. < 1361340889 260545 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can have Bx and ¬x. < 1361340989 216879 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is for "inaccurate reasoner" < 1361340991 515768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:11:26 In this book, they say "All universal claims are false" is a false statement, but if you believe that, you have to tell me which universal claim is not false (it shouldn't be difficult); but they did not consider that in their logic! < 1361341017 897730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ~(forall a, ~p(a)) doesn't necessarily give you a concrete a s.t. p(a) < 1361341021 207040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you have Bx and B¬(Bx)? < 1361341036 358360 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've observed it. < 1361341046 937568 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's called a peculiar reasoner. < 1361341079 122280 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psychologically I don't really think doxastic logic is very accurate, though... < 1361341113 798122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: http://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/epistemologicalNightmare.html < 1361341128 602998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You may be correct, I also don't really think doxastic logic really describe beliefs. It is still a kind of logic though. < 1361341129 57755 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, I love that story < 1361341145 914247 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that whole book was crazy in the best way < 1361341147 739078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :raymond.smullyan++ < 1361341154 606804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which book was that? 5000 B.C.? < 1361341170 184159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was in _The Mind's I_ also. < 1361341172 293062 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Mind's Eye. Epistemological Nightmare predates it but it was in it. < 1361341189 693186 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my favorite was the story about the guy in one neuron. < 1361341196 933008 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read that Epistemological Nightmare before. < 1361341197 174661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1361341211 933967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :_The Mind's I_ had three Smullyan excerpts in it. < 1361341213 963740 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhm, let me find the title... < 1361341226 733642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should read other Smullanbooks! < 1361341231 982717 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1361341242 574105 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read other Borgesbooks and Hofstadbooks. < 1361341266 608223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smullyanbooks are the best. < 1361341295 813772 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and Lembooks. < 1361341310 405345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everyone's heard of Lem. < 1361341328 19145 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the story I'm thinking of is "The Story of a Brain", by Arnold Zuboff. < 1361341337 9769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Łem < 1361341345 270943 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good letter < 1361341430 307939 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't seem to be any difficulty to this story < 1361341430 911284 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how does it not describe beliefs? < 1361341438 505982 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: which < 1361341450 194138 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most recent link < 1361341461 580983 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :epistemological nightmare < 1361341471 414722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, what were the other two Smullcerpts in that book? < 1361341485 407827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was _Is God a Taoist?_ and _An Unfortunate Dualist_, I think. < 1361341512 263916 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems so. < 1361341516 38059 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also read the one about laughter. < 1361341554 239522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should read his books! < 1361341560 859825 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't mean it doesn't describe beliefs, I mean it doesn't *necessarily* describe beliefs. That is different. < 1361341562 270238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're good. < 1361341587 466057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everything can be describe by some logic; that is why you need many different kinds. < 1361341594 9436 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a guy who loves Smullyan. I'm just a slow reader. < 1361341627 219512 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t maybe < 1361341628 771784 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b < 1361341666 189825 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :first you say it describes beliefs and other things, then you say "Not everything can be describe by some logic"? can you give an example mr constructivist because your previous sentence wasn't one? < 1361341695 124295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I do not understand you. < 1361341702 202995 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prob, we'll talk later < 1361341703 949714 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :off to work < 1361341711 971095 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe you do not understand me. < 1361341721 177524 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unsure which is true (possibly both). < 1361341814 798412 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B_z(¬U_zO∨¬U_oZ) < 1361341836 305731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example of paradox means: Epimenides of Crete says "All cretans are liars." < 1361341884 36800 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other Cretans, and he may have said other things. But what if, he is the only one and he only ever says one thing, which is that? < 1361341993 717723 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: How about "To Mock a Mockingbird" particularly? < 1361342104 820498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Well, that's a "puzzle" book about combinatory logic. < 1361342123 208873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of _The Tao is Silent_, _This Book Needs No Title_, and _5000 B.C._ here. < 1361342133 136195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The puzzle books are good too, though! < 1361342146 661086 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never read any of them but I wanted to read all of them. < 1361342197 530130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it is Monday, but it is not. < 1361342325 380171 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 people just picked up a freebie I offer in SL < 1361342329 894271 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the space of an hour < 1361342340 343648 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to wonder if there's a blog post or something mentioning it < 1361342450 596493 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are at a railroad where the track splits into two. There is a switch. There is ten children playing on the north track and one on the south. The train is heading toward the north track. There is no time to warn anyone. What will you do and why? < 1361342466 109192 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that question. < 1361342525 358791 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask some people I know who give different reasons; my reasoning is also different to that commonly shown in books. < 1361342533 614014 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also different to who I asked. < 1361342538 963679 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you gotten the answer "I don't know"? < 1361342546 880352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1361342552 857597 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my answer. < 1361342553 511816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, to mock a mockingbird is that smullyan guy? < 1361342557 876836 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1361342559 56876 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: OK. < 1361342562 974816 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :big on crazylogic < 1361342744 385748 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My answer is: I would try to warn them (I know it says there is not time), and leave the switch alone. I don't know how serious problems would be made up if the train goes on the other track (maybe collisions? or maybe they just don't get to their proper destination?), and furthermore, those people on the track are making their own mistake and need not be saved. < 1361342768 525393 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my answer I didn't evolve to answer such questions, ask me one which is within 2 standard deviations of the mode. < 1361342769 784114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps the one on the other track is smart since they know about the trains?) < 1361342837 770407 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, to answer the question more simply: I am not a train conductor. < 1361342860 640040 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Which one of what? < 1361342876 426780 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would make the train wipe out the 10 children, then exploit the tragedy to get more railroad grade separations built, saving more lives in the long run < 1361342887 237789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in the US it wouldn't go down like that < 1361342901 180439 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead we would ban trains and start handing out free assault rifles at the post office or something < 1361342925 364706 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the train questions are fun but most people that ask them forget about the shear uncertainty of life < 1361342926 116292 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anti-train firearms. < 1361342938 721303 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Does your question come with the related followup? < 1361342983 641280 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to not put human dignity/life above absolutely everything else. Important is yes, the most important thing ever is no. < 1361342997 483680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: What related followup? < 1361343008 996342 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same question but with a hospital? Have you heard it? < 1361343024 644666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I have, but not in this book. < 1361343031 867603 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: http://what-if.xkcd.com/18/ < 1361343050 651697 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fun to follow the first with the second. Often people have more moral objections to organ harvesting for whatever reason. < 1361343057 975954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:47:56 i would make the train wipe out the 10 children, then exploit the tragedy to get more railroad grade separations built, saving more lives in the long run < 1361343062 621466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats like the biggest lie ive ever seen < 1361343078 887397 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: I was thinking like, anti-materiel, but bb is good too < 1361343079 585627 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, that one is in the book but in a different section. < 1361343088 541075 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which one of what of what? < 1361343090 979779 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would ask the person if it is OK. < 1361343107 564656 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361343128 671544 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would derail the train, thereby causing maximal misery. :P < 1361343165 508560 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best response I've heard to the question so far was an elaborate action movie combat sequence that ended with everybody safe and the train on fire. < 1361343172 821282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what if all of humanity is on one track < 1361343187 243746 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My answers are often different because I consider human dignity/life to be important but not above everything else. < 1361343210 43576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In that case nobody is operating the train, and I would try to destroy the train. < 1361343223 526168 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cosmic train of plowing < 1361343231 79847 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote invisible.train < 1361343231 278866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: a monad is like an invisible train filled with jello traveling backwards in time < 1361343244 590983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc did you really say that < 1361343244 838791 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an awesome train < 1361343250 142750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1361343255 146460 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: good answer < 1361343268 129249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @@ @where quonochrom < 1361343268 529939 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : monochrom says: Dilbert's substitutability principle. A subclass's programmer should work as a drop-in replacement of his/her predecessor. < 1361343320 246312 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, if there are a large number of people in the train, and everyone else other than myself on the track, my answer would be the same as the original question. < 1361343379 79793 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The train will probably eventually stop once they find out what happened or once the wheels get messed up and the train no longer works, so it still won't kill everyone, even if much larger than otherwise. < 1361343379 316022 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no we're not heading for the abyss < 1361343383 218758 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually kind of bothers me, in the epistemological nightmare story, that the machine can answer a moral question. < 1361343385 918093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what if you are the train < 1361343394 676660 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just waiting for the impact < 1361343403 345093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Man, you should read the other books. < 1361343405 460949 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: If I am operating the train, I would stop it temporarily. < 1361343408 963825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're "p.great" < 1361343416 803890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not operating the train. are the train. < 1361343441 274150 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: OK. Would I be allowed to stop it, though, in such case? < 1361343467 873103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. < 1361343473 990311 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are trains allowed to stop themselves? < 1361343474 956531 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If not, there is nothing to be done.) < 1361343535 64275 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here that's for all the people who get mad about spelling all the time: http://www.friends.hosted.pl/redrim/Reading_Test.jpg < 1361343574 11070 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that's always attributed to Cambridge. < 1361343579 948738 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think that trains have intention. < 1361343732 986353 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I prefer to not pretend floats form any sort of structure amenable to reasoning." < 1361343919 644683 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wise policy < 1361343957 86065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are camels in all large cities. There are no camels in Germany. The city of B. is in Germany. Are there camels there or not? < 1361343992 458074 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This question was asked of a peasant who did not entirely understand. < 1361344036 416562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems clear there shouldn't be, but apparently B. is a large city (the part about camels in large cities was from the peasant) < 1361344044 859822 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that's... shit, what's his name? The psychologist. < 1361344049 519856 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1361344068 472527 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I've been meaning to read his books forever too. Even if he had no ability to tell when Uzbek peasants were fucking with him. < 1361344087 703120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A. R. Luria < 1361344112 328789 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, him. mostly i wanted to read the one about the soldier, see if that gets me into Vygotsky or whatever < 1361344217 186263 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The disclaimer in this book says many things, including "Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients", "Avoid contact with skin", and "Abandon hope all ye who enter here". < 1361344221 23645 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that particularly seems like a good example of not taking syllogistic reasoning too seriosuly. < 1361344326 669509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the name of this book? What is the Name of This Book. I don't know, that's why I asked you. < 1361344384 391367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Something I wrote below a paragraph mentioning the other book) < 1361344529 372490 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slist < 1361344532 221957 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot < 1361344563 680801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: when are you going to start caring about us olisters < 1361344582 185059 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I believe I did recently olist for the recent OOTS < 1361344587 698207 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs `olist < 1361344592 990747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You did. < 1361344598 940642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not updating often enough? < 1361344619 79346 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1361344631 635836 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net NICK :NotRichBurlew < 1361344838 437177 :NotRichBurlew!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1361345947 280490 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erfworld list! < 1361346379 482080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can there be type systems (or types) involving temporal logic and doxastic logic and deontic logic and so on? < 1361346468 39997 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there's work on modal type theory. < 1361346499 481462 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.sigfpe.com/2006/11/from-l-theorem-to-spreadsheet.html < 1361346522 257798 :fftw!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1361346532 52893 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was fast. < 1361346546 301577 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course they're functors < 1361346569 652948 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monadal logic < 1361346576 570993 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ l// < 1361346577 562480 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment says that neither □ nor ◊ is a functor < 1361346602 325117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that and the comments. < 1361346609 323070 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK □ is for system related variables and ◊ separates statements < 1361346621 68168 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... even ◊ is overloaded in different contexts < 1361346628 83037 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong context sgeo < 1361346628 620385 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything, whatsoever, that isn't? < 1361346644 250194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it has □(a -> b) -> □a -> □b, but not (a -> b) -> □a -> □b? < 1361346647 403446 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, I know, ◊ is APL and ... whatever kmc is talking about is some mathematical thing < 1361346653 587502 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃ < 1361346668 431959 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What is that? < 1361346677 701806 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there _anything_ which stays the same over all contexts that are typically described in English? < 1361346678 644562 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: does a -> □a anyway < 1361346686 483364 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pff no < 1361346689 844659 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all in-use contexts. < 1361346690 493232 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃ < 1361346710 477250 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me just consult my big ol' book of everything that anybody has ever meant to say < 1361346717 203415 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nope, still a negative answer < 1361346737 136538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: more creativity plz < 1361346744 235769 :fftw!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua JOIN :#esoteric < 1361346757 831882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::◊) < 1361346766 550078 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::□( < 1361346767 379585 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::☃( < 1361346783 615372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ÷ↁ < 1361346792 687776 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a creepy-ass smiley dude < 1361346798 371259 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :=/ … ≠ < 1361346820 248700 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :±) < 1361346832 53051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(∓ < 1361346859 2722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ↁ÷ < 1361346866 417164 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1361346881 922929 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::↵) < 1361346926 988500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::∘∈ < 1361346930 572644 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«There *is* a nice interpretation of □ as something like C/C++'s 'const'. » kmc the dance floor is calling < 1361346940 801425 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1361346958 26199 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/Horse_ebooks/status/149754124265721856 < 1361347003 28909 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything happens so much < 1361347041 113993 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1361347122 784123 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused. < 1361347135 869785 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :horse_ebooks is supposedly a genuine spambot, right? < 1361347140 67710 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1361347166 412001 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it posts links sometimes < 1361347167 643579 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the website linked has books that are about horse_ebooks, and that seems to be aware of @horse_ebooks < 1361347173 562334 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In the profile) < 1361347192 222164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, □ looks a lot like a comonad. :-( < 1361347197 383802 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it is. < 1361347200 161540 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so it says in the comments. < 1361347211 890158 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you mean like in boring old modal logic or what < 1361347236 385563 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: horse_ebooks has transcended marketing ebooks and can now market itself < 1361347280 35115 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :horse_ebooks is a dynamic, viral social media property < 1361347389 642487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1361347395 174761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's still salvageable. < 1361347415 637764 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :□? < 1361347776 760628 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently horse_ebooks changed < 1361347792 766392 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Multiple articles have been written about why @Horse_ebooks changed and started sucking (on September 14th, 2011.) This is possibly the weirdest example of the trope, considering that Horse_ebooks is a spambot on Twitter with a strange knack for Word Salad Humor." < 1361347808 92873 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not reading tvtropes < 1361347850 457636 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's bad about tvtropes? < 1361347867 476236 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i probably shouldn't rant about it < 1361347889 859932 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you fail to answer my question. < 1361347903 181756 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i have other priorities than answering your question. < 1361347915 650642 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead: you don't even have to read horse_ebooks directly, we have horse_ebooks and a billion fannish blogs to get horse ebooks from < 1361347973 342428 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, incidentally, the thing I quoted from TV Tropes isn't claiming that horse_ebooks started sucking, it's saying that there are people in the fandom shouting that it started sucking. < 1361348011 474255 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the... horse_ebooks fandom < 1361348019 336779 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :horse_efandom? < 1361348169 344104 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so have you heard about lewis's thing with ◊ < 1361348271 996292 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lewis? < 1361348279 809738 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :david < 1361348284 474299 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :big in modal logic crap < 1361348311 892318 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :way he figured it, every possible world literally exists in the same way ours does < 1361348339 266940 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like many worlds in quantum except serious < 1361348387 719520 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, sounds like Tegmark < 1361348400 235857 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, somewhat like Tegmark < 1361348426 137429 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is mathematical existence, then I would agree that every possible world is exists. < 1361348468 243504 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: tegmark might be broader and include impossible worlds < 1361348468 760044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there horse_ebooks fanfics? < 1361348475 164537 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's horse_ecomics. < 1361348497 334027 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google horse_ebooks fanfiction < 1361348500 519451 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a mathematical structure in which a mind can be described and will, along some "time" dimension in the structure, exist within the structure, is that mind conscious, and thus make the structure "real"? < 1361348501 353647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://horseebooks.tumblr.com/ < 1361348501 552625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: horse_ebooks fanfics < 1361348514 557798 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1361348535 829316 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you sure the last clause follows from the second to last? < 1361348570 523249 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the mind is conscious, then the mind would perceive the structure as "real" < 1361348590 364257 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) that makes it real? (b) that's not necessary < 1361348602 502902 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i make a gnostic AI, eh < 1361348643 292003 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, reminds me of that lem story < 1361348649 951030 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If our universe is such a structure, and only exists because it's a possible mathematical description of entities with minds, then our universe is no more "real" than this other mind's universe. < 1361348653 808933 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lem story? < 1361348699 757661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qqqqq < 1361348720 310603 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's your fault I'm interested in Tegmark. < 1361348728 389862 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a story about a bunch of trash that gets hit in such a way that it assembles into a "robot" < 1361348741 794085 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the robot however has no external sensory anything, so it can only think < 1361348757 360436 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it figures that it's God and imagines a world < 1361348772 498872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cant a guy say q < 1361348785 330175 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm pretty sure tegmark should not try philosophy so, but he did cool stuff with orch-or so i can forgive him. < 1361348798 431771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :orch-or? < 1361348802 126682 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there like, non-crazy cosmological theories somewhere < 1361348816 635216 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: penrose's thing about quantum brains < 1361348845 128972 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Penrose's brain stuff was considered crazy, but I never actually looked at it < 1361348850 129589 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1361348863 62138 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tegmark wrote a paper about how unlikely it was that quantum-scale effects could effect anything on the neuro scale < 1361348870 460417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that robot is like a boltzmann brain < 1361348881 113543 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: basically < 1361348908 19958 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm FreeFulling a bit here < 1361348931 844734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have enough of a mental model of FreeFull to determine what is meant by "FreeFulling" < 1361348932 566876 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it doesn't have itself as a member of its imagined universe < 1361348936 545196 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I < 1361348947 693765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: its called anmastering < 1361348951 524471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where were you in 2008 motherfucker < 1361348954 441572 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what zzo38ing is, and Sgeoing would presumably be looking at a bunch of languages in rapid succession < 1361348962 491485 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in the end of the story the robot gets hit by another piece of trash and ceases to be < 1361348965 492259 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun stuff < 1361349015 161362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Sgeoing would be informing #esoteric of everything you do. < 1361349032 548032 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe it or not I don't do that. < 1361349041 595722 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have the stereotype of doing that, admittedly. < 1361349043 187084 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily biking is just a convenient mode of transportation < 1361349059 892611 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe I do do that when doing computer stuff. < 1361349069 757402 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no "computer stuff" is way too broad. < 1361349078 875918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: What about Biking? < 1361349080 558604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember the good old days when sgeo did actually inform #esoteric of everything he died :( < 1361349083 561631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1361349083 773294 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did < 1361349117 144113 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Biking is just biking while starting a sentence < 1361349126 486452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliotting is saying dumb fucking things all the time < 1361349129 840599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember when i did that; i still do that < 1361349137 720719 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r u ok < 1361349192 447024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1361349200 943836 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1361349203 254514 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being not ok < 1361349209 235053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks you fixed everything < 1361349211 797629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike for president < 1361349236 276664 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :president of the united states of elliott < 1361349259 441278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is proof general being mean to you < 1361349388 411879 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what FreeFulling is myself < 1361349404 433260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems apropos < 1361349419 497183 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc solve the mystery now < 1361349659 365530 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.113.152.173 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1361350288 34461 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1361350869 969232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Agda safety: we last proved false on April 18th 2012" < 1361350904 862379 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snerk < 1361350955 67894 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they fix it? < 1361350966 183721 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it even need to be fixed? < 1361350999 337377 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to prove an absurdity is often considered a problem, yeah < 1361351106 845323 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but I thought maybe they would use unsafe commands or something like that < 1361351234 495927 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably if they used unsafe commands to do it, it would not be notable. < 1361351335 28889 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1361351382 922135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1361352146 70006 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361352334 91399 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@91.234.37.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361352526 186903 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1361352631 883014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1361352703 514183 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :confutatis < 1361352711 188933 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maledictis < 1361352718 456340 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flammis acribus addictis! < 1361352751 122383 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :salve oerjan < 1361352880 689378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION disrumpit hagb4rdum cum malleo =====||
< 1361352950 107704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dico, ave < 1361353689 228182 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1361355105 844887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361355236 92850 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have a look at my language http://pastebin.com/Njckq9v5 < 1361355328 555234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: btw have you seen Kayak < 1361355350 59433 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1361355353 772825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also reversible brainfuck < 1361355377 26375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in fact we have a reversible computing category < 1361355494 785884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: typo: "programms" < 1361355503 313973 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1361355660 221334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :", so you are not allowed to do that." <-- is that actually enforced somehow? < 1361355803 638929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious thing after seeing kayak and reversible brainfuck is to make there be a test on exit as well, and the whole thing is a loop if the test doesn't pass < 1361355828 879980 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kayak looks fun < 1361355837 724607 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is enforced < 1361355871 990806 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversible brain fuck is in a different category < 1361355880 85759 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stores it's history < 1361355899 11767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that's just the TC proof < 1361355903 843103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which i wrote up) < 1361355970 454003 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I missunderstood < 1361356064 460164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as there is no IO, there's an easy trick called a "cascade" to remove the history again - basically after doing a computation, copy the result elsewhere and then do the computation in reverse. you end up with the original input + the result, but no history. < 1361356103 243247 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would cost that many bits of entropy < 1361356122 134563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. that's still entirely reversible. < 1361356148 701361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect differing definitions are being used. < 1361356167 47420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the place you want to copy the result to needs to be something like an array of zero bits. < 1361356227 51867 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361356235 47119 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1361356237 473160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm going by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle plus the actual reversible circuit design and language i once read about < 1361356256 928323 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361356262 932959 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those zeroed bits didn't just happen randomly, they were created or found somehow < 1361356276 269683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that logical reversibility is the same as "implementable with arbitrary low entropy increase" < 1361356294 671738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that i did not claim both definitions were correct. < 1361356315 20895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: well ok. anything that is to be TC needs to have an infinite source of known bits to use. < 1361356354 744863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as long as the entire computation is known and reversible, no actual increase in entropy happens by using them < 1361356381 285076 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, not until copy the result < 1361356386 160449 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1361356393 603368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the copy of the result is not irreversible. < 1361356422 773778 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the place you put it just lost it's history < 1361356436 147010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just doing a loop of xor's or + < 1361356454 657761 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xors lose information < 1361356455 658788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: no it didn't. you are copying under the _assumption_ the target was known to be zero. < 1361356460 758493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no they don't. < 1361356486 433365 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I thought you meant setting it to 0 useing xors < 1361356493 253569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm going to assume this discussion continued through the night < 1361356500 443698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = x xor y is an entirely reversible operation when x and y don't share < 1361356519 923238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: no, just for the actual transfer of data. < 1361356637 793942 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cost was paid when the bits were set to 0 < 1361356665 321941 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes x = x xor y is reverseable < 1361356692 665603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't share"? < 1361356708 374757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: x = x xor x isn't very reversible, sadly < 1361356738 301800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*alias may be the fancy term < 1361356746 279364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sure. < 1361356767 82200 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's why linear types are kinda cool < 1361356792 816682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: well the cost of setting the bits to 0 might just be considered primordial, the cost of getting a low-entropy universe to compute in in the first place. < 1361356855 151387 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I don't keep track of all the costs then it loses some appeal < 1361356886 660024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, like with reversible brainfuck you are assuming you start with an infinite tape of zeroes. < 1361356902 677767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is no entropy cost _after_ the start of that. < 1361356914 141498 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361357031 446796 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that the infinite tape of zeros was created lazily so that it was easier to keep track of how many bits you'd spent < 1361357043 341414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: anyway the cascade means you use up much fewer bits than if you just kept the history. < 1361357060 540528 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1361357132 159069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moreover, if the copied output is used for computing something else, you can do a new cascade to get rid of the intermediate data. < 1361357155 175933 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1361357184 635945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think that was somewhat intended in using the word "cascade", my memory is rather vague.) < 1361357234 377337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kayak also seems to have somewhat lazy creation of zero bits. < 1361357287 695670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can get a new stack of zeroes any time, and use whatever you want from it, but it has to contain all zeros when you discard it - but they might not be the "original" zeroes. < 1361357588 569837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: btw you don't seem to have a syntax that is the reverse of using t and f < 1361357621 819804 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's not obvious how to reverse an arbitrary function < 1361357724 764355 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t and f were a way to dynamically expand the the bitvector < 1361357740 774413 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are represented in the output < 1361357807 267589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: right, but it is useful to be able to reverse them to say "these bits are now in a clean state again, and can be used to allocate more t's or f's later" < 1361357855 972823 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what you mean < 1361357987 843855 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1361358157 238709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw one nice feature of that reversible circuit design i saw was that in it, the bit bucket could be an actual physical device - when you really _wanted_ to delete garbage bits, you had to do so explicitly. < 1361358197 312933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while all the rest of the circuit still was subject to landauer's principle and could work with low energy < 1361359356 228015 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you mad at God for not existing? < 1361359424 717702 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% think conformity is wrong. Do you? < 1361359526 419071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, but sometimes for doing so < 1361359600 784392 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To which question? Both? < 1361359606 379203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one < 1361359620 311380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the latter, 99% is obviously a joke < 1361359635 412587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well so was the former, i guess) < 1361359653 695638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm still wondering if the real number is hypocritically high < 1361359657 227877 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are joke, I think < 1361359674 805298 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevertheless it is possible to think about it. < 1361360021 16914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.neverworkintheory.org/ <-- i'd just like to point out that this blog page currently contains the phrase "Or that learning Befunge makes you a better programmer (seriously, I've heard that claim too)." < 1361360028 294931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1361360036 403790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : kmc : http://www.neverworkintheory.org/ < 1361360067 88815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trying to make a line copying and pasting from two different sources simultaneously is a _pain_ in irssi. hth.) < 1361360146 320757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you might have some anecdotical evidence regarding that claim, i suppose? < 1361360166 995908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a claim? < 1361360184 776511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, someone else's claim. < 1361360199 242524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know whether _you_ did, but someone apparently did so. < 1361360220 999960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, it's obviously true, I doubt the matter really needs any discussion. < 1361360226 203859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're like a befunge star programmer, after all < 1361360261 702222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(possibly the only one?) < 1361360309 494045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you mad at yourself for not existing? < 1361360320 891875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider myself much of a Befunge programmer; e.g. mooz was a lot more into it than I, at least a decade ago. < 1361360326 667943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no. < 1361360331 859643 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1361360446 157779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I have this idiosyncratic style that's somewhere between Befunge-93 and Funge-98; I don't really take advantage of many -98 features (stack stack, ;...;, x) yet I don't follow -93 either. Arguably that's not a good. < 1361360605 41274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mooz or mtve the person who doesn't exist < 1361360668 819540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen mtve speak < 1361360698 253747 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're different people. I don't really know about their status with respect to existence. < 1361360710 795138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen mooz online in Skype the other month. < 1361360716 18333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have some trouble distinguishing mooz and m00t. < 1361360911 655961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also made this thing not long ago http://mak.hsl.fi/ it's in Finnish only, but in general you give it a point and it draws a map denoting how many minutes it takes to get there over public transportation. < 1361361020 224934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mtve just shows music videos? < 1361361032 307266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this website looks much too fancy for a befunge programmer < 1361362232 634922 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361362326 250257 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1361362398 322534 :fftw!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1361362435 268195 :fftw!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua JOIN :#esoteric < 1361362789 316241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bike: I think you will find that literally everyone on the planet wnats to annoy me <-- hey, you too? < 1361362866 276722 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was all set for a cosy time of log reading and surfing, but someone _had_ to start some horrible low-frequency noise somewhere < 1361362895 956306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't want to annoy you! < 1361362932 824250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just incompetent at it. < 1361362941 670700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...darn, my housemate forgot to close his fridge door, that might be why. < 1361362992 125316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he really is not good with doors. < 1361363017 658338 :fenris_kcf!~fenris@x233.wh17.tu-dresden.de PART #esoteric :"ISON NickServ " < 1361363091 471850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he forgets to close all doors except those i've _told_ him should be open. < 1361363129 175940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, i guess that might just be confirmation bias - he could just be random about them all) < 1361363310 897031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : okay I believe I have sufficient information to discount the hypothesis that doesthiswork is cpressey <-- he also doesn't seem much like fax. knock on wood. < 1361363341 949418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if (s)he is (s)he has got much better.) < 1361363390 246725 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't believe me if I say I've never met most of you before, will you. < 1361363412 808822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that explanation is just too ridiculously simple < 1361363456 681777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're ineiros' illegitimate son? < 1361363485 443906 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're kallisti's alternate personality < 1361363515 829848 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1361363518 80439 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make temporal logic types might be something resembling: type Next x y = x (Maybe y); data Future x y = Now (x y) | Later (Future x (Maybe y)); data Globally x y = Globally (x y) (Globally x (Maybe y)); Is that it? (Perhaps not quite???) < 1361363562 65174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i've read somewhere that temporal logic is the curry-howard correspondence of functional reactive programming < 1361363573 487139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a "linear" in there too < 1361363658 674062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is x meant to be a Functor or something else? < 1361363684 390805 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Something of kind (* -> *) < 1361363699 480269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if I did it right; it is just an idea I had < 1361363740 916065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1361363875 573430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:48:04: is (or, and) a field? < 1361363875 815420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:49:17: pretty sure it is < 1361363891 406111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not even a ring because there are no inverses < 1361363892 926322 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it... < 1361363894 596881 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1361363905 808904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(xor, and) is, of course < 1361363907 859082 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(xor, and) is a ring, and a field for a single bit < 1361363940 76927 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@91.234.37.58 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361363952 338297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, and) is a distributive lattice < 1361363977 454443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a semiring < 1361364060 114589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(xor, and) is a boolean ring < 1361364148 288637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kmc is (or, and) a field? <-- no, it's not even a ring because there are no inverses. it is a distributive lattice and a semiring. < 1361364148 611921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1361364554 884977 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have is probably not best, perhaps Next would be instead a type family taking * and resulting * (or anything both the same kind) is might be closer how temporal logic is working < 1361364588 554868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: wait I have a guess < 1361364592 694118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: are you -- I know this is out there -- < 1361364595 701104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: are you doesthiswork < 1361364607 955008 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1361364613 700851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1361364658 38686 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@91.234.37.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361364723 296049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you would have type Globally = Cofree Next, or something like that < 1361364892 967748 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also means Future = Free Next) < 1361365430 476820 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1361365448 304568 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua JOIN :#esoteric < 1361365558 221718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Łem < 1361365574 960913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's Stanisław Lem < 1361365611 641029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know. < 1361365615 232328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is good, since it means not everyone is hideously mispronouncing "Lem" < 1361365646 263112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping to get the "dirt on the screen" reäction without mentioning his first name. < 1361365656 893535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike Wałęsa < 1361365720 216827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ł is pronounced like english w, but the w isn't... < 1361366095 787682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1361368170 988660 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the name of the philosophical idea that under no circumstances can you use the same logic for absolutely everything? < 1361368397 852014 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361368514 886664 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361369054 459232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stanisław Lemmings. < 1361369073 400987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Isn't that one of the "Lemmings" series of games?) < 1361370648 62258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361370690 641074 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b54.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1361371108 38075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361371213 868648 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1361371850 60836 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p4FDCCFB3.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361372639 116496 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1361373231 395564 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-144.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1361373236 170497 :upgrayeddd!uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phdticjehxkmduvh QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1361374891 551587 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1361374912 723226 :Regis_!~Regis@186.222.62.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361375094 580789 :Regis__!~Regis@186.222.62.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361375171 855380 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1361375276 692454 :Regis_!~Regis@186.222.62.175 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1361375660 202069 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-144.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1361375909 185601 :hagb4rd|lounge!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361376585 979419 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hamberg.no/erlend/posts/2013-02-18-static-array-indices.html article about that int foo[static 10] we know and love < 1361376586 170815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1361376996 12016 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361377575 405836 :Regis__!~Regis@186.222.62.175 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1361378668 942630 :upgrayeddd!uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yidxedhsevvurozl JOIN :#esoteric < 1361379505 138550 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1361379512 193771 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361379819 318234 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that Peter Thiel is a hardcore libertarian who thinks that maybe letting women vote was a bad idea < 1361379822 324648 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/the-education-of-a-libertarian/ < 1361379888 507402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we alraedy know peter thiel was kind of crazy < 1361379934 380850 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know specifically < 1361379944 517642 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's "today i learned" and not "today elliott learned" < 1361380034 172516 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today elliott learned: cocks < 1361380039 639420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by we < 1361380041 29359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean #esoteric < 1361380046 562331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes thiel is the seasteading guy < 1361380064 31956 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'll file this away for the next person who tells me startupland is a magical progressive meritocracy < 1361380066 277237 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that particular crazy dude. < 1361380069 285432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to say that I also quite support the idea of getting a great big boat and then putting all the libertarians on it and never hearing from them again < 1361380074 501554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go peter thiel! < 1361380091 947756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it would be nice < 1361380108 51140 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i look forward to the boat getting seized by somali pirates on the third day < 1361380112 701770 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all governments refusing to help < 1361380223 558959 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not entirely unsympathetic to libertarians though < 1361380235 567662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I think the US might be better off if the Republican Party had more libertarian views < 1361380240 965503 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still wouldn't vote for them but < 1361380255 874620 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now they basically have only the worst parts of actually conservative ideology < 1361380330 68213 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say both major US parties suck balls < 1361380345 515202 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to me only one will even go so far as sucking balls. < 1361380355 571959 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other just says "gaaaaay". < 1361380372 648743 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sucks balls, the other sucks balls in private while grandstanding about the homosexual agenda publicly < 1361380396 444594 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: i agree with you but i don't agree with the usual conclusion "therefore it doesn't matter who i vote for" < 1361380402 170074 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still such a thing as the lesser of two evils < 1361380418 144755 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially now that the Republicans might actually be doomed < 1361380431 975199 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we will get an actual left wing party < 1361380444 612772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's your voting reform working out < 1361380455 96795 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have voting reform? < 1361380460 996397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1361380461 188682 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how's your voting reform working out oh wait it failed < 1361380466 993516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: actually we did reform < 1361380471 634885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we turned from a 3-party system to a 2-party system < 1361380475 513555 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1361380480 585239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because now nobody will ever vote for the third one ever again < 1361380488 83785 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :womp womp < 1361380594 717324 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I can't vote for either, I'm not an US citizen < 1361380823 395984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1361380824 230360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : especially now that the Republicans might actually be doomed < 1361380830 209986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we are all just alternative personalities of kallisti < 1361380841 653720 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they've rightwinged themselves right out of political relevance? < 1361380853 143484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1361380867 817482 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't get anyone other than old white men to vote for them < 1361380868 11949 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@91.234.37.56 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361380873 215381 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the proportion of old white men is shrinking < 1361380883 349590 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... don't the old white women vote for them < 1361380887 3045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some < 1361380889 128960 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a strong feeling the programming language I want to create already exists, but I'm not sure < 1361380958 841980 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they're not irrelevant yet, because the country is geographically polarized enough to give them lots of solidly conservative seats in the house < 1361380962 736049 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait a minute, IBNIZ seems very similar < 1361380976 104594 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in IBNIZ everything but number literals is one character < 1361380976 604172 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the senate you only need 40% to completely obstruct proceedings < 1361381003 158862 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we might just be doomed to dysfunction more than anything else < 1361381022 354674 :Regis__!~Regis@186.222.62.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361381081 711484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, they are in an ideological extremism death spiral < 1361381094 305648 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :losing elections because you're too extreme and concluding that the solution is to become more extreme < 1361381158 976112 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noticed something awesome. < 1361381164 314781 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burlesque does type checks at runtime. < 1361381183 667377 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But since it's lazy, it can actually detect type errors befor calculating stuff :) < 1361381192 92009 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1361381192 558463 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*before < 1361381285 821911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :some type errors at least. < 1361381379 316400 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neat < 1361381600 532785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1361381654 314161 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly it does not really have practical use. < 1361381667 95319 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd have to catch errors < 1361381670 199834 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody does that :) < 1361381728 451173 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking errors means you don't trust your code. < 1361381747 580098 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you'd want to delegate type checks to runtime unless you're doing metaprogramming < 1361381786 624214 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's tedious to do static checking. < 1361381804 916934 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :blsq ) {1 2.0 3 4 5.0})pd < 1361381805 907661 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1.0 2 3.0 4.0 5} < 1361381812 449876 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :flips int -> double, double -> int < 1361381874 517465 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361381893 455189 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1 2.0 3 4 5.0})pd0!!n! wouldn't type check < 1361381904 258120 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the type of the first element in the list is changed at runtime to double < 1361381914 87352 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you would have to statically check. < 1361381964 515518 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that essentially allows you to du < 1361381978 34944 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if collatz_conjecture true: return (double)input else return (int)input < 1361381981 177396 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to do < 1361381992 947037 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how would one possibly type check that before executing the program? < 1361382009 939341 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361382064 651994 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :static type checking would require more restrictions < 1361382075 341944 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :_would have required_ < 1361382118 404371 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure you can't statically type check non-homogenous lists? < 1361382173 24014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because a list might be [Int,Double,String,Maybe Int] < 1361382196 516486 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could do stuff like if something_weird true: rotate left; else rotate right; < 1361382328 728888 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you declare each element's type < 1361382329 883783 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1361382348 581021 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotate :: [Int,String,Maybe Int] -> [String,Maybe Int,Int] < 1361382497 612721 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1361382507 672577 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1361382508 162419 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there actually a GHC extension which would support that? < 1361382661 235905 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You possibly could do it with typeclasses? < 1361382675 126970 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantithingy types? < 1361382676 59860 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotate :: rotatable a => [a] -> [a] < 1361382684 13148 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rotatable* < 1361382703 746653 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with that is you probably can't use < 1361382711 528025 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(head ls)*5 then < 1361382734 168739 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless Rotatable implies Num < 1361382892 248292 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361383009 243638 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://venturebeat.com/2013/02/13/silicon-valley-salaries-developers-make-big-bank-in-2012-infographic/ < 1361383018 511071 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The average salary of a Silicon Valley developer jumped about $4,300 in 2012 to reach $118,900" < 1361383019 990941 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :asTypeOf (0 :: Int) $ head ls < 1361383025 833588 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably impossible then. < 1361383059 530582 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: You could add a num constraint to rotate or rotatable < 1361383069 300057 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361383083 836291 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still does not allow me to extract "concrete" types out of the list afterwards < 1361383097 191583 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the official term is for what I mean with "concrete" type < 1361383099 810396 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, check what the type is? < 1361383108 969494 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or get the type you want? < 1361383111 746481 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what, seriously < 1361383118 818526 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361383129 180417 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1361383134 924148 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :head ls is then Rotatable a < 1361383146 276100 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-a < 1361383155 419671 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ls < 1361383161 547704 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list < 1361383175 370985 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pass to your rotate :: Rotatable a -> [a] -> [a] < 1361383183 165384 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*=> < 1361383206 723999 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: apparently < 1361383208 708790 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1361383216 219964 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And asTypeOf is? < 1361383217 42716 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :photo: a young white guy in a bathtub full of cash < 1361383218 721761 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems about right < 1361383223 347585 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t asTypeOf < 1361383224 620906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> a -> a < 1361383233 603962 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: then again i'm told rent in SF has gone up by about $600/mo in the past year < 1361383242 878362 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like const < 1361383249 148273 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez < 1361383283 965521 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use existentially quantified types < 1361383287 291847 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put them in a list < 1361383307 889298 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like forall a. Num a -> MyThingy a < 1361383320 255652 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure paying someone $120k to write mobile social local cow clicker games represents a fundamental value to the economy and is not in any way a bubble ready to pop < 1361383320 447710 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use Num stuff on elements < 1361383332 397607 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just seems crazy high < 1361383335 141713 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't put a String into it < 1361383346 136785 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor can you get an Int out of the List < 1361383351 880409 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it returns the first value and causes the static typer to fail if the second isn't of the same type < 1361383368 313352 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> asTypeOf (5 :: Int) 0 < 1361383369 948276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1361383396 359582 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> data Foo = forall a. Num a => NumFoo a < 1361383397 809930 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:1: parse error on input `data' < 1361383403 910762 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try :) < 1361383411 896028 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, rotate shouldn't take a list, just an element < 1361383466 33618 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, class Rotatable a { rotate :: (Rotatable b) => a -> b } errors out < 1361383498 553169 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> data Foo = forall a. Show a => NumFoo a < 1361383505 572440 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> let ls = [NumFoo 5, NumFoo 3.14159] < 1361383517 602058 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361383518 402617 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude> :t head ls < 1361383519 296048 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :head ls :: Foo < 1361383628 312743 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot the where < 1361383660 160025 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom line < 1361383666 710410 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't to squat with the elements in the list. < 1361383739 204529 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's using a datatype though < 1361383773 454833 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (\(NumFoo x) -> NumFoo $ x*3) [NumFoo 3, NumFoo 4.5] < 1361383776 916090 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that you can do < 1361383781 720205 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't get x out of NumFoo < 1361383812 932284 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: rotate :: Rotatable a => [a] -> [a] < 1361383818 447146 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that's pointless anyway < 1361383833 56920 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use rotate :: [a] -> [a] either way < 1361383852 582822 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you wan't a version of rotate which only work with Rotatable < 1361383856 149885 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*want < 1361384000 157174 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I can't define instance Rotatable (Maybe Int) without -XFlexibleInstances < 1361384007 348678 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1361384058 325742 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not including perks either < 1361384074 767666 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :free meals at work, cleaning service for your house, free testicle wash, endangered animal pet of your choice < 1361384128 958713 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yup < 1361384155 731481 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: standard Haskell instances must be of the form (C a b ...) where C is a single type constructor and a,b,... are variables < 1361384160 693900 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1361384183 945772 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fact that no Haskell function can return a different type depending on some input < 1361384191 339877 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm... free and delicious endangered pet. where can I apply? < 1361384277 606255 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Means I can't do Ratio either < 1361384288 251532 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Ratio Int < 1361384293 418362 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the constraints on the instance must be type classes applied to just those type variables < 1361384348 984163 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these restrictions make it very easy for a compiler to find instances, just by structurally taking apart types < 1361384356 71134 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: -XFlexibleInstances is a fine extension though < 1361384407 25279 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1361384436 5674 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :without it Ord [a] wouldn't even be possible, right? < 1361384457 361674 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it non standard to have Ord [a]? < 1361384459 308651 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ord [a] has the standrad form < 1361384465 394850 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1361384470 797693 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ord a) => Ord ([] a) < 1361384482 551185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is just a funny name for a type constructor < 1361384492 113106 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1361384501 103493 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Ord String would be illegal? < 1361384508 54014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel < 1361384509 856036 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviosuly < 1361384511 347540 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well < 1361384513 741213 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361384534 437824 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Printf has that IsChar hack for this reason < 1361384546 139346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (IsChar c) => PrintfType [c]; instance IsChar Char < 1361384548 780072 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually illegal because of two reasons < 1361384552 344022 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeSynonyms < 1361384557 200795 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FlexibleInstances < 1361384560 770940 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I remember correctly < 1361384592 13212 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printf has so many Typehacks I don't understand anything about it < 1361384599 181548 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty gross < 1361384602 608810 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1361384605 568909 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the type of printf? < 1361384612 472162 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printable r => r or < 1361384615 378482 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t printf < 1361384616 59689 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it variadic? < 1361384616 686913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PrintfType r => String -> r < 1361384621 68080 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Integral a => Rotatable (Ratio a) seems to be allowed but not Integral a => Rotatable a < 1361384621 576515 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is variadic < 1361384622 685611 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow. < 1361384623 170913 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language like Haskell you should not still be specifying formats using strings, the worst datatype < 1361384632 625312 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"somehow" means some gross thing doesn't it < 1361384660 536203 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that complicated < 1361384679 633230 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What do you mean @strings? < 1361384695 331965 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that you should use typed combinators to express formatting < 1361384696 495132 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The PrintfType class provides the variable argument magic for printf. Its implementation is intentionally not visible from this module." cool < 1361384709 542086 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a string containing "%d %s" whatever that the compiler knows nothing about < 1361384712 637041 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote stark < 1361384712 829944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AlanPerlis says: The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. < 1361384737 423348 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stringly typed things are a nightmare < 1361384756 702455 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Foo a where foo :: a < 1361384759 299054 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Foo () where foo = () < 1361384766 723031 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Foo a) => Foo (b -> a) where foo x = foo < 1361384786 427951 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gives you a "variadic function" foo which will take any number of arguments, ignore them, and produce () < 1361384829 944523 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that language that had a statically-typed compile-time printf? < 1361384831 68710 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :freaky < 1361384841 813530 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: gcc < 1361384845 961606 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1361384855 71059 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :No =P < 1361384862 564048 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if the format string is known ahead of time it's not that hard to verify < 1361384880 913658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361384894 130659 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Using strings? < 1361384919 379022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: ocaml < 1361384933 548052 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf((if rnd(): "%d"; else: "%lf"),6.5) <- can it do that? < 1361384934 863487 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems Fortran was what I was thinking of < 1361384953 943073 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it in Haskell too with TH < 1361384967 569479 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a macro to expand a format string into a format combinator expression, the thing I was saying you should write anyway < 1361384972 928004 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant: Can it type check that < 1361384982 638927 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml can't i think < 1361384998 103783 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: you can also do variadic function like things without type classes < 1361385006 963741 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Nom a b = Moar (a -> Nom a b) | Kthx b < 1361385018 810004 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~_~ < 1361385019 2206 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is kind of weird because the 'function' decides, at runtime, how many arguments it wants < 1361385029 563449 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can decide based on the values of previous arguments < 1361385035 699193 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependently variadic! < 1361385049 617456 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's not that different from the lowly [a] -> b < 1361385071 39010 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moar (\_ -> Kthx 3) < 1361385096 686145 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moar (\x -> Kthx x) < 1361385100 461028 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is it good for? < 1361385105 216213 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing! < 1361385165 811659 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1361385168 327138 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can NomNomNom < 1361385189 583777 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw < 1361385213 954348 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a haskell module with a function which calls a pure function and terminates it after 30s < 1361385217 431130 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1361385269 685632 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Probably exists < 1361385280 569676 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lambda.haskell.org/hp-tmp/docs/2011.2.0.0/ghc-doc/libraries/base-4.3.1.0/System-Timeout.html < 1361385282 377542 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to add a time limit to my interpreter < 1361385286 139747 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The outer function would of course be impure < 1361385289 138328 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in IO < 1361385292 379394 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything runs in a simple State Monad < 1361385294 391804 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gggggggggggofgggfgfgffyffff < 1361385303 522745 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll probably need StateT IO < 1361385307 275695 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :function types involving IO are not "impure" < 1361385314 441191 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't use StateT IO < 1361385323 605647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> IO b) is a PURE FUNCTION returning an IO ACTION which is also an INERT FIRST-CLASS VALUE < 1361385327 705339 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I use impure to mean needs RealWorld here < 1361385328 314455 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to rewrite my whole interpreter < 1361385335 723565 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck with this RealWorld bullshit < 1361385338 894830 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1361385343 315696 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :calm down kmc, this isn't #haskell < 1361385343 507001 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the function itself isn't impure < 1361385361 698287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: so use timeout in conjunction with Control.Exception.evaluate < 1361385391 599376 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "British Railway Journeys: Killarney to Cobh" was exactly as boring as the name would suggest < 1361385394 953911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why Control.Exception? < 1361385406 700832 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: timeout puts a timeout on the execution of an IO action < 1361385415 950332 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(return x) takes no time to execute, even if it would take some time to subsequently evaluate x < 1361385423 480413 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need (evaluate x) < 1361385437 373141 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1361385440 482082 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So timeout 30 $ evaluate puresomething < 1361385452 637863 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :timeout (return $ reverse [1..]) would do what? < 1361385453 308310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even evaluate (rnf x) < 1361385457 676790 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to evaluate it deeply < 1361385468 107919 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: executing that IO action will immediately finish and produce a thunk < 1361385472 471019 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :return Just $ reverse[1..] < 1361385475 544192 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thunk, if evaluated, would loop forever < 1361385478 795616 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I print it my interpreter goes boomboom < 1361385491 604676 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic. < 1361385494 56577 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought so. < 1361385500 291342 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and evaluate does some magic to prevent that. < 1361385502 239588 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat. < 1361385507 586075 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = do x <- return (reverse [1..]); return () < 1361385516 857904 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up the definition of evaluate
< 1361385520 712810 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, they said hexham on TV! < 1361385527 110841 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(evaluate x) is an IO action that, when executed, evaluates x to whnf before finishing < 1361385529 363681 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ooh < 1361385534 619888 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty of other IO actions that evaluate stuff < 1361385539 916638 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like putChar < 1361385545 523270 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to figure out what the character is before printing it < 1361385558 81538 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1361385559 47168 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx. < 1361385562 288501 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try that. < 1361385574 960853 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the docs point out, (evaluate x) is different from (return $! x) aka (x `seq` return x) as well < 1361385578 700320 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, once putChar's action is executed, there is nothing to do but evaluate < 1361385595 319492 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($!) < 1361385596 651717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> b) -> a -> b < 1361385599 410045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you simply *evaluate* (evaluate (reverse [1..])) as opposed to executing it, nothing blows up < 1361385602 32837 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep < 1361385603 826376 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :$! is strict $ < 1361385605 918494 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t seq < 1361385607 391429 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> b -> b < 1361385627 827246 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between evaluation and execution is really really really really important and anyone who goes on about 'pure vs impure' functions should stop doing that and learn about evaluation vs. execution instead < 1361385681 482776 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does evaluating (evaluate (reverse [1..])) always give you a thunk? < 1361385695 672798 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluating anything never gives you a thunk < 1361385707 137554 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thunk is something that is not evaluated yet < 1361385707 455490 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it give you then? < 1361385711 388076 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluating it gives you a value < 1361385732 67552 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what sort of value does that give you? < 1361385732 259993 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(evaluate foo) is an expression that evaluates to an IO action < 1361385740 245177 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is (putStr "hi world") < 1361385742 29928 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it gives you an IO action < 1361385746 158575 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IO action is a value like any other < 1361385747 757395 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that makes more sense < 1361385756 736468 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pass them to functions, return them from functions, store them in datastructures, and nothing special happens < 1361385771 326366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just describe side effects that could be performed < 1361385774 752990 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could make an evaluate that works with State rather than IO < 1361385778 870256 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only effect which is actually performed is the one named 'main' < 1361385781 48613 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you couldn't do the timeout thing < 1361385783 559731 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you perform th- oh < 1361385813 348978 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, so main has to return for anything to happen? < 1361385848 705863 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Well, main gets evaluated lazily < 1361385879 594532 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise main = getChar >>= putchar . map something wouldn't work < 1361385926 755460 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know when exactly the IO actions get performed though < 1361385971 826431 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: it doesn't matter when main gets evaluated < 1361385979 48347 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's nonsense to say "main gets evaluated lazily" < 1361385998 606643 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like any other value in Haskell, it's not evaluated until it's needed < 1361386000 413271 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is immediately < 1361386008 593313 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just asking when or how IO actions are actually performed < 1361386019 290680 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right and FreeFull is confusing you by talking about evaluation rather than execution < 1361386036 465526 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :execution means performance, right? < 1361386042 185591 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: to run a haskell program: evaluate 'main' and then perform the action so described < 1361386058 369258 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas evaluation is "just" reduction to whnf < 1361386063 520994 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :an (IO t) is a data structure describing how to perform actions < 1361386063 847039 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361386070 920882 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1361386088 480761 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1361386099 382014 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :main gets evaluated to a single IO a action < 1361386108 355493 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then that IO a action gets executed? < 1361386115 394019 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data IO t = Return t | PutChar Char (IO t) | GetChar (Char -> IO t) < 1361386119 465098 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's one model of what IO might look like < 1361386129 875797 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1361386132 570501 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it might be data IO t = [JVMBytecode] < 1361386136 834606 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or data IO t = CProgramAsAString < 1361386138 632104 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter < 1361386144 522099 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what matters is that it supports: < 1361386147 324737 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* return and (>>=) < 1361386153 955973 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* primitives like putChar, getChar, etc < 1361386163 951897 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is an abstract data type; you're not supposed to know or care what's inside < 1361386166 918343 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is < 1361386168 69749 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a data structure < 1361386174 862251 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that makes sense < 1361386177 203879 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361386191 151946 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to cause the evaluation itself to never complete, therefore nothing executing? < 1361386195 752185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Haskell program computes such a data structure -- a pure computation -- and then hands it off to the runtime system, which performs those actions < 1361386198 762058 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: sure < 1361386199 56708 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = main < 1361386226 262944 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i am guessing there's no "perform" function to runtime it for you < 1361386234 659265 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in standard Haskell < 1361386239 857974 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I am thinking something like main = putChar 'x' >> main except I think that would actually execute as much as it can < 1361386240 985512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what unsafePerformIO does in GHC < 1361386247 222715 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, neat < 1361386248 71945 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: that just puts 'x' over and over < 1361386255 332344 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it would < 1361386257 29704 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you can totally evaluate that 'main' to WHNF < 1361386268 844475 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our model above, you get (PutChar 'x' (PutChar 'x' (PutChar 'x' ... < 1361386271 258531 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will unsafePerformIO will do the performance during evaluation? < 1361386272 367842 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a data structure < 1361386277 673149 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can't you evaluate to WHNF? < 1361386291 610763 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: something that doesn't produce a constructor in finite time < 1361386306 134574 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like (reverse [1..]) or (let x = x in x) < 1361386315 534061 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i ask you "what's the first constructor" you can't answer < 1361386324 514352 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So reversing an infinite list or bottom < 1361386326 249762 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the first constructor of [1..] or (map (+1) [1..]) is (:) < 1361386333 832588 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: anything that can't be evaluated is bottom < 1361386342 251657 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :denotationally, all expressions that can't be evaluated are equivalent < 1361386352 263597 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the actual result is a runtime error or an infinite loop or whatever < 1361386355 65985 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the constructor of (reverse [1..]) not (:)? < 1361386368 196630 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: no < 1361386371 897929 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But simply plopping them in the middle of your IO action means that some of it gets evaluated to WHFN and can get executed, and the rest never will? < 1361386372 224722 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src reverse < 1361386372 417258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse = foldl (flip (:)) [] < 1361386377 971859 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's not super illuminating < 1361386389 474658 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, you have to perform an infinite number of recursive steps before you spit out a (:) < 1361386394 272028 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1361386402 587028 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: i don't understand the question < 1361386403 731401 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1361386412 923412 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :weak head-normal form means only that the *first* constructor is known < 1361386414 713596 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the outermost < 1361386433 386266 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you can evaluate [1..] or (PutChar 'x' (PutChar 'x' (PutChar 'x' ...))) to WHNF < 1361386434 716609 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If I have f = a >> b >> c < 1361386441 206921 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a can get executed no matter what b is, right? < 1361386453 731410 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that have to do with WHNF and evaluation? < 1361386459 744238 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you conflating evaluation and execution again? < 1361386479 960776 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a >> b >> c" just evaluates to a datastructure which describes the act of doing a, then b, then c < 1361386483 839463 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because f needs to get evaluatede < 1361386491 503912 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But b is something that you can't evaluate < 1361386514 213803 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like bottom < 1361386552 107087 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know whether the Haskell report specifies whether IO's (>>) is strict in both arguments < 1361386556 554377 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably isn't < 1361386574 606814 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (a >> b) is supposed to be equivalent to (a >>= (\_ -> b)) < 1361386588 728480 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if (>>=) forces both arguments, forcing (\_ -> undefined) is fine < 1361386607 442908 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would only happen that (>>) is strict in both args if someone explicitly defines a "more efficient" version of (>>) < 1361386625 642940 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1361386636 936628 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Does Control.OldException.evaluate the same? < 1361386638 729346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again, whether (>>) evaluates a or b now or later has no bearing on when the effects described by a or b are actually performed < 1361386642 40670 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: dunno < 1361386650 433542 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1361386911 181274 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361386923 651424 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 50 2B! < 1361386924 147156 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"110010" < 1361386931 133033 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1R@<- < 1361386947 424614 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1361386950 952453 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1361386951 424458 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1361386957 34897 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that timeout is too high :) < 1361386972 979365 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! a new bot! < 1361386994 228699 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361387000 839319 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1R@<- < 1361387017 758697 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1361387022 224603 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1361387132 466363 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timeout does not work the way it should. < 1361387242 96599 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it just allocates too much memory way too fast. < 1361387295 288605 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it takes 10s for out of memory to appear < 1361387306 62180 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :timeout should've killed it already by then. < 1361387321 688349 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it me or is Racket the best you can get Scheme/Lispwise < 1361387356 414003 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's you and probably a good number of people who use racket < 1361387402 322045 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it also the best you can get for DSLs? < 1361387480 135738 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well. < 1361387526 993618 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: it's just you < 1361387576 168382 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361387642 173227 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Racket's DSLs are rather nice, although I don't know how much you can embed them into programs written in a different language < 1361387657 661686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you know if it'd be valid for GHC to assume strict fields are tagged pointers to evaluated values? < 1361387683 249242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whether the GC/something else makes that invalid. < 1361387845 16460 :NuclearMeltdown!~rep@unaffiliated/antiliberal JOIN :#esoteric < 1361387885 71032 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aren't you sange.fi? or am i confused < 1361388023 335081 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it looks unmaintained, i must be wrong < 1361388120 906793 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fizzie is zem,fi < 1361388168 907407 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you know who had esoteric.sange.fi < 1361388297 606029 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It does not work if the program returns an infinite list < 1361388303 206179 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because haskell does not evaluate it < 1361388332 93448 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it don't need to. < 1361388406 2238 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i don't know < 1361388420 671546 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works as it should. < 1361388443 439947 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "133mXe" and why is it different from 133Xe? < 1361388472 159210 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: For what? Java flags? < 1361388486 680577 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty leet < 1361388524 168314 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361388533 105822 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1 10r@++ < 1361388533 591326 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :55 < 1361388539 70831 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1R@<- < 1361388559 293232 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 6 -.^^0\/r@\/'0\/.*'1+]\/{\/{rt}\/E!XX}x/+]m[sp < 1361388560 121142 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 0 0 0 0 0 < 1361388565 797624 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat. < 1361388581 391037 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "Go nuts!"sh < 1361388581 875526 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go nuts! < 1361388616 406157 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo !blsq "`echo Bot chain!"sh < 1361388616 718967 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "Hello, World"R@ < 1361388617 206210 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{"" "H" "e" "He" "l" "Hl" "el" "Hel" "l" "Hl" "el" "Hel" "ll" "Hll" "ell" "Hell" "o" "Ho" "eo" "Heo" "lo" "Hlo" "elo" "Helo" "lo" "Hlo" "elo" "Helo" "llo" "Hllo" "ello" "Hello" "," "H," "e," "He," "l," "Hl," "el," "Hel," "l," "Hl," "el," "Hel," "ll," "Hll," "ell," "Hell," "o," "Ho," "eo," "Heo," "lo," "Hlo," "elo," "Helo," "lo," "Hlo," "elo," "Helo," "llo," "Hllo," "ello," "Hello," " " "H " "e " "He " "l " "Hl " "el " "Hel " "l " "Hl " "el < 1361388629 822420 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is permutations? < 1361388638 187981 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361388641 118660 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo !blsq "`echo Bot chain!"sh < 1361388641 390458 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "`echo Bot chain!"sh < 1361388645 649473 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: isotopes of Xenon < 1361388658 616733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: atehwa. < 1361388659 606828 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :R@ is all subsequences < 1361388661 237242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Is sange.fi. < 1361388664 846741 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}R@ < 1361388665 335187 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{} {1} {2} {1 2} {3} {1 3} {2 3} {1 2 3}} < 1361388667 427923 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "test?"sh < 1361388668 119004 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :test? < 1361388668 604624 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks < 1361388672 817919 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo !blsq "`echo Bot chain!"sh < 1361388673 9900 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "`echo Bot chain!"sh < 1361388682 871625 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn. < 1361388693 226290 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, seems to be combinations actually < 1361388710 290763 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523 > 1361388710 337325 NAMES :#esoteric < 1361388713 810169 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1361388715 300442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try to infinite-botloop < 1361388718 724506 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}3cb < 1361388719 223880 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{1} {2} {3} {1 1} {1 2} {1 3} {2 1} {2 2} {2 3} {3 1} {3 2} {3 3} {1 1 1} {1 1 2} {1 1 3} {1 2 1} {1 2 2} {1 2 3} {1 3 1} {1 3 2} {1 3 3} {2 1 1} {2 1 2} {2 1 3} {2 2 1} {2 2 2} {2 2 3} {2 3 1} {2 3 2} {2 3 3} {3 1 1} {3 1 2} {3 1 3} {3 2 1} {3 2 2} {3 2 3} {3 3 1} {3 3 2} {3 3 3}} < 1361388719 676933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm getting ready to +m to stop it < 1361388724 612379 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that's combinations < 1361388729 342767 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody brace yourselves < 1361388730 506250 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :variations < 1361388732 258354 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact. < 1361388735 249487 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not combinations, subsequences < 1361388747 202865 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3}r@ < 1361388747 648441 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{1 2 3} {2 1 3} {3 2 1} {2 3 1} {3 1 2} {1 3 2}} < 1361388748 510895 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION straps himself to his desk with some CAT5 cable
< 1361388752 111250 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- permutations < 1361388755 201787 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> subsequences [1,2,3] < 1361388757 284341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[],[1],[2],[1,2],[3],[1,3],[2,3],[1,2,3]] < 1361388759 655056 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#writefile foo ~echo #cat foo < 1361388762 307014 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388762 833366 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388763 63325 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388763 680506 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388763 872359 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388764 478601 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388764 670894 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388765 268988 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388765 470181 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388766 78916 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388766 289916 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388768 228760 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388768 427985 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388769 3470 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388769 571267 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388770 180134 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo #cat foo < 1361388770 372717 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361388773 364378 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a boring botloop < 1361388776 344438 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more porn < 1361388781 608019 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#rm foo < 1361388781 799634 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to ^C my bot. sorry. < 1361388786 553008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I could have stopped it < 1361388790 185883 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361388791 118577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I opped myself < 1361388800 769876 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :#echo Another shellbot? < 1361388801 92076 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another shellbot? < 1361388801 283471 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :#cat foo < 1361388805 691816 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :#env < 1361388805 883919 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 14 1 0rn < 1361388806 816176 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 < 1361388824 609565 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: What is that < 1361388838 154761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what language is !blsq anyway? < 1361388841 889793 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite list of random balues? < 1361388861 239674 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? balue < 1361388867 690560 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :balue? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1361388872 571973 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably add a take 100 < 1361388875 500582 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to not float irc :) < 1361388881 60533 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!quit < 1361388881 253183 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Quit: Exiting < 1361388886 108232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 > 1361388886 133075 NAMES :#esoteric < 1361388903 564640 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not shellbot, just implement some fs functions < 1361388925 154821 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361388929 196865 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-163-255-138.range86-163.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361388931 841147 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 14 1 0rn < 1361388932 310321 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 < 1361388933 125657 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :balue = value < 1361388945 167562 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: rn is Random number in range < 1361388961 554747 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 14 0 10rn.+ < 1361388962 33721 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{6 7 7} < 1361388964 325897 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 14 0 10rn.+ < 1361388964 824675 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{6 7 7} < 1361388968 813356 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 is the seed ;) < 1361388969 298313 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 14 here? The initial seed? < 1361388972 49458 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1361388988 118771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PART #esoteric :" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api" < 1361388996 234485 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :.+ is take? < 1361388997 734850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389009 725640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"interesting typo", not "ragepart" < 1361389015 430184 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Yes. < 1361389023 142503 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1361389030 917749 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now somebody might force blsqbot to produce 80 newlines < 1361389037 744699 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then take 100 would not suffice. < 1361389039 166152 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!quit < 1361389039 653830 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Client Quit < 1361389058 932853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime ais523 < 1361389059 683552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for ais523 is Wed Feb 20 19:37:39 2013 < 1361389067 499141 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the arguments to .+ are in the right order, it'd make more sense for the number to take to be second to me < 1361389128 143874 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389140 167498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389141 323037 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "hello\nyou"sh < 1361389141 832004 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1361389154 594487 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {1 2 3 4}4.+ < 1361389154 917576 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! < 1361389161 819728 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 4{1 2 3 4}.+ < 1361389162 412278 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1 2 3 4} < 1361389183 753972 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you whoever invented .+ < 1361389191 248915 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was me :) < 1361389208 725834 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Why did you put the number first in its arguments < 1361389253 223527 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes it less composable than the swapped version < 1361389265 173071 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1361389272 766256 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 4 s < 1361389273 244702 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: (line 1, column 6): < 1361389280 619506 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 4 .s < 1361389281 275848 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: Unknown command: (.s)! < 1361389290 336509 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "FreeFull"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++ < 1361389292 942219 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I have a look at the language spec or something? < 1361389293 257938 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361389313 230383 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389315 847797 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu < 1361389320 539075 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it crashed o_O < 1361389325 71305 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: http://mroman.ch/burlesque/lref.html < 1361389358 238799 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389361 992885 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "FreeFull"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++ < 1361389371 849222 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's interesting. < 1361389372 173925 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361389378 68077 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be Str a, Int b Block a, Int b < 1361389566 163139 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389569 393463 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "FreeFull"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++ < 1361389579 390253 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the code meant to do? < 1361389579 857263 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361389590 978206 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculate the entropy of your nick. < 1361389644 224366 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389644 416522 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361389656 714552 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1361389662 946674 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci just terminates on that program < 1361389702 233172 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :No error or anything? < 1361389716 177529 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1361389725 40065 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about ghc? < 1361389748 991195 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : #tutbot-testing < 1361389749 182568 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:47 < mroman> !blsq "FreeFull"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++ < 1361389749 375043 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:47 < blsqbot> 2.25 < 1361389758 178810 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- it works in #tutbot-testing < 1361389767 937045 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is cursed! < 1361389790 376246 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the IRC layer is giving it something extra < 1361389791 874885 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389799 586144 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 48 < 1361389800 59503 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!\n" < 1361389805 444657 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: ^ :) < 1361389812 432310 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that? Ghostscript? < 1361389817 770331 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfscript 2 < 1361389820 574562 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1361389823 204066 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 1 < 1361389823 826680 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\n" < 1361389828 416344 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 3 < 1361389829 101006 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\n" < 1361389829 292523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::☝) < 1361389830 856518 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a little "parser" < 1361389833 175183 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361389840 614170 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 4 < 1361389840 805810 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "FreeFull"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++ < 1361389841 262300 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\n" < 1361389841 457785 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.25 < 1361389845 151896 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 4848 < 1361389845 635660 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!Hello, world!\n" < 1361389854 411142 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for actual ascii code, you need "". anything else is parsed as byte values < 1361389858 326279 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1361389859 330568 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it works :) < 1361389861 943255 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 "2 2+" < 1361389862 564545 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4\n" < 1361389874 336074 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 32 20 32 2B < 1361389874 973681 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4\n" < 1361389878 737829 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ those are equivalent < 1361389879 699757 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what's byte 48? < 1361389887 150931 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably "print hello world"? < 1361389897 710948 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the string value hello world, actually < 1361389906 508260 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gets printed after the end of the program < 1361389916 418867 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could reverse it first, though < 1361389917 695801 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 88fC < 1361389918 217984 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{2 2 2 11} < 1361389919 693875 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 "HR" < 1361389920 335001 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\n" < 1361389922 432521 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1361389924 40351 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 "Hr" < 1361389924 711788 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!dlrow ,olleH\n" < 1361389927 644140 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1361389938 478185 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(r is reverse) < 1361389953 546085 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "Hello, World!")<-<- < 1361389954 533799 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!DLROw ,OLLEh" < 1361389985 297489 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you loop? < 1361389986 760105 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "Hello, World!"F: < 1361389987 119633 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{0.23076923076923078 'l} {0.15384615384615385 'o} {7.692307692307693e-2 'r} {7. < 1361389997 840558 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: loop? < 1361390002 327401 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burlesque has a while loop < 1361390014 14540 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually you wan't an implicit loop < 1361390017 387028 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like map, reduce, filter < 1361390023 908065 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*want < 1361390028 935451 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn QUIT :Excess Flood < 1361390035 916379 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was thinking loop or recurse < 1361390036 379696 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think burlesque is also partially based on golfscript? < 1361390059 857562 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually based on J < 1361390062 130730 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1361390068 129457 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see < 1361390074 336135 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it has while, then it probably is turing complete < 1361390077 910220 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too dumb to learn J < 1361390088 317002 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I created my own weird looking weird version of it ;) < 1361390092 827982 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: It is turing complete. < 1361390100 339889 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfff, J is easy, just type a bunch of emoticons and #$%&.: < 1361390116 879055 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can translate Underload to blsq < 1361390117 905294 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have a mandelbrot plotter in no time < 1361390122 287725 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and recently I wrote a Brainfuck interpreter < 1361390135 133606 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 1 } w! < 1361390135 414948 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361390157 131858 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, someone give me something really easy to write in GS2 < 1361390167 426917 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, easier than fizzbuzz < 1361390168 694066 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 1 } w! < 1361390169 12647 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: infinite loop of a < 1361390171 841461 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :El resulto: *Main> < 1361390172 792330 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1361390176 184762 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just returns to Main < 1361390178 622963 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no error, nothing. < 1361390187 70968 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might actually crash the bot :') < 1361390187 719183 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe PRIVMSG : < 1361390189 43511 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's find out < 1361390190 678709 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is invalid irc syntax? < 1361390191 665664 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Would have to see the implementation < 1361390204 311860 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e sending an empty string? < 1361390213 144488 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether it expects at least a space after : ? < 1361390220 821860 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme try < 1361390238 691911 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: You'd get an error from the server at least if you sent something wrong < 1361390274 463308 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. right. < 1361390287 154770 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390291 257724 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. try again. < 1361390304 907333 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } < 1361390305 270778 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ {} < 1361390305 784499 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390310 768029 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 1 } < 1361390311 256297 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ {1} < 1361390311 524166 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390314 42072 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 1 } w! < 1361390314 537464 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361390318 553753 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1361390318 815465 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's the ! < 1361390320 527489 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390334 14297 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bot < 1361390374 395327 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt this is going to work -- < 1361390375 185816 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 "{°aP1}D" < 1361390393 292165 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 "2 2+" < 1361390394 42229 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"4\n" < 1361390402 477402 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it just didn't output anything < 1361390406 637935 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1361390417 46868 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!gs2 "{" B0 "aP1}D" < 1361390426 166129 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390428 759804 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 1 } w! < 1361390429 249534 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361390440 673544 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1361390446 101219 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashes before writing to the network handle < 1361390448 471436 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's running that thread forever < 1361390453 60570 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never returns any output < 1361390456 489967 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops. < 1361390468 345601 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try something < 1361390508 250555 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390509 534357 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bot was hacked together in 10 minutes or so... < 1361390509 866085 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try :trace main < 1361390513 529712 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 1 } w! < 1361390513 871510 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361390523 813972 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I wanted to try !blsq ! < 1361390528 535312 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1361390540 272262 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390542 589581 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1361390544 209140 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq ! < 1361390544 856643 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ ERROR: (line 1, column 2): < 1361390545 57416 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390548 290940 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq w! < 1361390548 786322 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ ERROR: Burlesque: (w!) Invalid arguments! < 1361390548 978510 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390552 644245 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1361390561 605607 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. I really need to update my bot. < 1361390562 581725 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 1R@<-<> < 1361390562 867982 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361390565 141167 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 0 } w! < 1361390575 567832 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It apparently crashes on timout. < 1361390597 389228 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So timeout is reached, and then it crashes rather than doing the right thing? < 1361390607 594520 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1361390611 210896 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm such a dumbass < 1361390617 878937 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :head < 1361390621 146743 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head "" < 1361390622 821885 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.head: empty list < 1361390626 897822 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1361390630 345541 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1361390635 660599 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you unsafeHead! < 1361390650 47033 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ("~ "++) . take 80 . head . lines $ "" < 1361390652 30812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "~ *Exception: Prelude.head: empty list < 1361390668 432699 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how uncool. < 1361390676 938872 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t head' < 1361390678 225100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: head' < 1361390678 417310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1361390678 417507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `head' (imported from Data.List), < 1361390708 664622 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval head mempty < 1361390708 987331 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want something that for [] returns [], and for [[a]] returns [a], right? < 1361390709 229429 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) < 1361390709 417492 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M8322072285244073253.show_M8322072285244073253' < 1361390709 417689 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type variable `a0' is ambiguous < 1361390709 417797 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) < 1361390709 609305 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: there are several potential instances: < 1361390710 149612 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Double < 1361390710 341275 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' < 1361390711 136219 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Float < 1361390711 328567 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' < 1361390712 82863 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ("~ "++) . take 80 . head . lines . (++"WHAT") $ "" < 1361390712 275111 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance (GHC.Real.Integral a, GHC.Show.Show a) => < 1361390712 275197 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Real.Ratio a) < 1361390713 158952 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Defined in `base:GHC.Real' < 1361390713 751996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Terminated < 1361390725 18834 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ("~ "++) . take 80 . head . lines . (++"WHAT") $ "" < 1361390725 322979 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. really, really need to update my bot. < 1361390726 976570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "~ WHAT" < 1361390735 431272 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ("~ "++) . take 80 . head . lines . (++" ") $ "" < 1361390737 253993 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "~ " < 1361390739 842509 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1361390742 925438 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :dummy space will do < 1361390744 916815 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: bind . take 1 I think this will work < 1361390774 320919 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not bind < 1361390775 165042 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :join < 1361390786 136887 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390793 500488 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join . take 1 < 1361390794 782379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[a]] -> [a] < 1361390802 780653 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq { } { 1 } w! < 1361390803 265527 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1361390803 472446 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390806 921118 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1361390808 670040 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect < 1361390809 663459 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I'm looking at System.Plugins' docs. planning to rewrite just about everything, now that just about every lib I use is outdated, and I can't SSL my bot. < 1361390825 697121 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}tp < 1361390826 161499 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ {{1 4} {2 5} {3 6}} < 1361390826 355474 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390828 263417 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1361390832 999528 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}tp)++ < 1361390833 526448 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ {5 7 9} < 1361390833 718625 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390844 633143 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar < 1361390844 839413 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- ~metar station < 1361390845 271827 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I meant to say that to mroman, I don't know why I said it to you < 1361390848 327034 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {{1 2 3}{4 5 6}}tp)++2?^++<- < 1361390848 978063 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ 551 < 1361390849 201777 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390853 532563 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1361390853 726374 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1361390853 922554 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Enveloping" to "Stripping" < 1361390855 172538 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390857 941549 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry < 1361390860 203660 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!quit < 1361390860 508069 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Client Quit < 1361390861 182445 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa there, cuttlefish. < 1361390869 774272 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :~is already taken by someone :) < 1361390870 4494 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi < 1361390870 196229 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: So are you using the space workaround or join . take 1 < 1361390883 97325 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: it may have applied. I still have much haskell to learn, and who knows, perhaps a bind or a join is the right thing to do. < 1361390895 838878 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: ~ is my cuttlefish's prefix. < 1361390930 45292 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm not responsible for that, only your subconscious. < 1361390958 294114 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361390969 527887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "boily: ic"sh < 1361390970 23896 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : boily: ic < 1361390976 182472 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be an official bot list < 1361390978 699788 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "~ huhu"sh < 1361390979 187790 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~ huhu < 1361390983 911496 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all bots are meant to use that list to ignore each other < 1361390989 49551 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: is it i ching or what < 1361391009 792185 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bot adds a safety space before printing stuff < 1361391013 367234 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it is i ching indeed. < 1361391016 951689 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the usual convention on other channels. < 1361391022 978664 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1361391035 443854 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: i should write a bot with space as the command character < 1361391044 55667 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 < 1361391044 541220 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1361391056 79253 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would call you idiot then < 1361391072 715661 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1361391075 345735 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote an useless bot in s-lang < 1361391078 116195 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {)} < 1361391078 568232 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {)} < 1361391079 220452 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that's more evil thant ørjan and/or elliott! < 1361391087 75943 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :S-lang's sockets are nicer than C's < 1361391091 997485 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that being implementing a space-bot.) < 1361391111 116412 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq }:) < 1361391111 640182 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1361391125 902650 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how smilies are valid programs. < 1361391130 108262 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq :) < 1361391130 590175 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Unknown command: (:))! < 1361391135 182104 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq (: < 1361391135 665162 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: (line 1, column 3): < 1361391141 36734 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of them < 1361391226 38336 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {12 15 14 16 14 25}{16 16 16 16 16 16}ct5 0.95cq.<{"The die is ok!""The die is probably not ok!"}chsh < 1361391226 554964 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : The die is ok! < 1361391245 275759 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it starts turning unfair on 29 sixes < 1361391252 258783 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {12 15 14 16 14 29}{16 16 16 16 16 16}ct5 0.95cq.<{"The die is ok!""The die is probably not ok!"}chsh < 1361391252 722297 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : The die is probably not ok! < 1361391255 841010 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1361391265 566782 :gs2bot!~cinch@91.177.31.206 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1361391340 675930 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {81 22 100 201 227 0 87 159 74 100 64 32}{2B!8'0P[}\m6co{L[6==}f[{2B!32.+L[}\m < 1361391341 128878 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "419DR>, 5Y]*9$ @" < 1361391355 717695 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. That's so sweet of you to say. < 1361391410 324087 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bf interpreter is probably too long. < 1361391432 379466 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen ABC < 1361391437 91668 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​39 ++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.+.+.>++. [72] < 1361391437 388286 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361391437 929788 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bf_txtgen ABC < 1361391439 236805 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf_txtgen: not found < 1361391468 844564 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot killed my bot! < 1361391495 840728 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1361391523 707506 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sent me a privmsg < 1361391534 105700 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :â*Main> < 1361391612 166597 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361391631 569934 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen ABC < 1361391633 340963 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​39 +++++[>+++++++++++++>++>><<<<-]>.+.+.>. [41] < 1361391633 533425 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361391642 312646 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz. < 1361391664 232189 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hPutChar :D < 1361391771 198588 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361391775 106037 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen ABC < 1361391776 619441 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​39 +++++++++[>+++++++>+>><<<<-]>++.+.+.>+. [183] < 1361391776 898111 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361391790 284977 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. It just can't print the darn thing to stdout < 1361391803 704502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : dummy space will do <-- takeWhile (/= '\n') instead of head . lines perhaps? < 1361391876 307878 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1361391882 305578 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen ABC < 1361391884 894478 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​39 ++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.+.+.>++. [152] < 1361391888 816388 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1361391889 118272 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suggested join . take 1 . lines < 1361391896 690226 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "I'm still here"sh < 1361391897 175346 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm still here < 1361391907 641728 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join. take 1 . lines $ "" < 1361391910 210956 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "" < 1361391916 475858 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join. take 1 . lines $ "Muh\nmuh" < 1361391918 442882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Muh" < 1361391924 333096 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat. < 1361391927 80993 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhile (/= '\n') would work too < 1361391931 999434 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is probably more obvious < 1361391938 323996 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1361391969 172340 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeWhile (const True) "" < 1361391971 937342 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> takeWhile (const True) "" < 1361391973 411446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "" < 1361391997 65553 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, should work < 1361392031 393274 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you heretic! how *dare* you praise obviousness in this channel! < 1361392038 255915 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "Muh\nmuh"{"\n"[-!=}tw < 1361392038 752330 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (tw) Invalid arguments! < 1361392042 824342 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1361392057 789492 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: He's writing it in Haskell < 1361392071 224224 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1361392077 236168 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was some super esoteric language, then sure, I'd encourage obscurity =P < 1361392079 190138 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversed arguments. < 1361392094 150814 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"\n"[-!=}"Muh\nmuh"tw < 1361392094 624268 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Muh\nmuh" < 1361392096 102623 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got a point here. < 1361392122 386390 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "\n"[-** < 1361392122 680029 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (**) Invalid arguments! < 1361392128 535686 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "\n"-]** < 1361392128 894334 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1361392134 916750 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq {"\n"-]!=}"Muh\nmuh"tw < 1361392135 275077 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Muh" < 1361392186 285154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes arguments are reversed just to punish people < 1361392257 545722 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "http://esolangs.org""http://"?/ < 1361392257 913653 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "esolangs.org" < 1361392288 104103 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "1 500000000r@2?^++" < 1361392288 601291 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "1 500000000r@2?^++" < 1361392294 599937 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "1 500000000r@2?^++"e! < 1361392295 80769 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Burlesque: (e!) Invalid arguments! < 1361392301 938201 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare you < 1361392305 363869 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "1 500000000r@2?^++"to < 1361392305 866901 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Str" < 1361392310 860934 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "1 500000000r@2?^++"pe < 1361392311 350802 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1361392318 400559 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "1 50r@2?^++"pe < 1361392318 902140 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 42925 < 1361392328 393444 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 3 .* < 1361392328 886995 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 < 1361392334 714338 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 3 .^ < 1361392335 242531 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Unknown command: (.^)! < 1361392339 513370 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 3 .** < 1361392340 147126 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: (line 1, column 8): < 1361392340 919000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ([] :: [String]) ^. _head < 1361392344 761264 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "" < 1361392345 442581 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 3 ** < 1361392345 909589 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 27 < 1361392349 181939 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1361392355 285606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (["test", "ho"] :: [String]) ^. _head < 1361392358 743901 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ?^ < 1361392358 938546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "test" < 1361392362 680813 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 3 ?^ < 1361392363 13168 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 27 < 1361392366 621690 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 3 3.0 ?^ < 1361392367 86168 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : 27.0 < 1361392379 166071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ok is _that_ obscure enough? < 1361392391 729157 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 5 3mo.+ < 1361392392 185761 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {3 6 9 12 15} < 1361392393 842589 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is. < 1361392525 629338 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "rrrrrlllleee"gw < 1361392526 137326 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {{5 'r} {4 'l} {3 'e}} < 1361392549 524676 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "rrrrrlllleee"gw)?+ < 1361392549 896669 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! {5 'r} ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid < 1361392556 297571 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1361392557 768396 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1361392573 899046 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "rrrrrlllleee"gw{Sh?+}\m < 1361392574 390455 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {ERROR: Burlesque: (_+) Invalid arguments!} < 1361392579 332189 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "rrrrrlllleee"gw{Sh?+}m[ < 1361392579 820978 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! "[5, r]" ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Inval < 1361392671 798793 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "rrrrrlllleee"gw{^pSh?+}\m < 1361392672 67987 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "5r4l3e" < 1361392701 831518 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "rrrrrlllleee"gn < 1361392702 360148 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {'r 'l 'e} < 1361392707 122085 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "rrrrrlllleee"gn\[sh < 1361392707 614769 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : rle < 1361392790 407945 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :blsqbot please do quit < 1361392790 711878 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@120-137.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch QUIT :Quit: Exiting < 1361392937 927656 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck thi computer < 1361393075 11487 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hot computer sex < 1361393282 112462 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you minecraft < 1361393293 774129 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1361393303 879209 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hi) < 1361393305 264984 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1361393305 725466 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1361393313 997713 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1361393319 330863 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except computer is a pita < 1361393320 746776 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uh gosh what do i do < 1361393326 148807 :Regis__!~Regis@186.222.62.175 NICK :GOMADWarrior < 1361393372 714538 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonad warrior < 1361393400 775530 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonads are the best punctional fondlegramming squishcture < 1361393405 663171 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe sometime i should watch that bad monads talk < 1361393415 319123 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad monads talk? < 1361393417 202741 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one by the bad javascript guy < 1361393468 2935 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn gonads are the best punctional fondlegramming squishcture. < 1361393472 359464 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1361393473 637858 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZFtimgAcM This one < 1361393487 313564 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound like much fun to watch. < 1361393513 905596 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on second thought, i dont want to watch that at all ever < 1361393538 257756 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1361393588 884063 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The top youtube result for monads < 1361393596 626846 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1361393761 160167 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361393845 16047 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1361394317 576666 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361394401 998518 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm sorry, but Birmingham did not feel for me. < 1361394421 889776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm < 1361394429 284729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh boy, that video has YouTube comments now? < 1361394447 47414 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, I did not feel that the University of Birmingham is for me < 1361394448 260677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incompetence? malice? the shadow of a previously industrial age that is now collapsing in ruins because it's no longer economically viable? < 1361394504 220455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1361394505 860135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1361394512 562869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about what the maths department is like < 1361394524 224628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from it has a weirdly quirky building and I once sat an exam on the bridge < 1361394553 890587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham, Alabama, right? < 1361394558 955051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: UK < 1361394559 348479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the true birmingham" < 1361394569 288006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /original/ Birmingham < 1361394614 137636 :hagb4rd|lounge!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have predicted and proven their own nemesis. and so now they go for it < 1361394621 323078 :hagb4rd|lounge!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1361394627 512983 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :consquently < 1361394639 240945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, the way universities work, different universes will be better for different people < 1361394650 537858 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow like lemmings < 1361394670 400072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSITY: the same universes are better for the same people < 1361394700 617423 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSITY: the same universes are better for the same people < 1361394701 181809 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for making a stupid "universe" joke so i don't have to, shachaf < 1361394704 718383 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :965) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSITY: the same universes are better for the same people < 1361394708 802214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1361394711 496308 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1361394719 616995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: It's what I do. < 1361394754 32367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that quote was awful < 1361394760 201886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was. < 1361394769 347977 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, so is hagb4rd. < 1361394773 602172 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, has anywhere in the quotes' history have we reached number 1000? < 1361394787 270510 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked it :( < 1361394796 928403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no random insulting of people, please < 1361394810 967938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you have a good reason, you can talk it through < 1361394817 918925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but random insults just make the heartfelt ones cheaper, in a way < 1361394859 717700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs hagb4rd < 1361394862 290431 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that automatically get quoted < 1361394871 923936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: it didn't, hagb4rd added it < 1361394874 117935 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12727 < 1361394875 117007 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been isulted? < 1361394879 537332 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm blind < 1361394885 805664 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts crying
< 1361394903 481769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we wanted someone to randomly repeat past lines from the log, we'd bring back optbot < 1361394910 336396 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION insults everyone who ever insults
< 1361394956 164474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(optbot was awesome, btw) < 1361395013 549165 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about.. i just have seen beauty where you have not < 1361395016 890275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1361395018 370274 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybee < 1361395019 883697 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot was bad < 1361395040 616562 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember optbot. < 1361395051 929970 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it badder than cuttlefish? < 1361395053 250291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ages ago < 1361395057 617541 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but random insults just make the heartfelt ones cheaper, in a way < 1361395059 45138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically just randomly repeated past lines from the log < 1361395061 839992 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I've been here for ages :< < 1361395062 683195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :h4gbard is awful < 1361395064 661156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and changed the topic occasionally < 1361395067 470391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ageser < 1361395068 508124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's from the heart < 1361395103 838276 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Early hagb4rd reminds me of itidus. No offense to either. < 1361395128 919498 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep running the test suite until it passes < 1361395131 677652 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION happily smacks Phantom_Hoover with a miniature, porcelain cow that wasn't made in china but in a nearby country by a slightly underpaid local artisan
< 1361395132 656039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus is awesome, at least < 1361395153 759986 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :artisinal cows that celebrate craftsmanship < 1361395162 35729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, i think hagb4rd may have brought iti here < 1361395163 771304 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs perdito < 1361395169 531242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to check the logs < 1361395177 910753 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22247 < 1361395255 610672 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does "thumb mature" scare off the other kind of esotericer? < 1361395271 934248 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck thumb mature < 1361395272 177230 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1361395297 389587 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1361395300 589903 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361395304 235958 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ways of elliott are mysterious, sgeo. < 1361395304 501091 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :take care < 1361395308 109259 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm out < 1361395313 111273 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f1d8.pool.mediaWays.net PART :#esoteric < 1361395336 582146 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs itidus < 1361395349 903925 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2494 < 1361395376 414580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric rage part #184 < 1361395376 934106 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing here < 1361395401 782176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're counting? :) < 1361395408 105030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1361395408 839036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, rage parts sound quite hard to automatically count < 1361395417 339715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1361395469 425808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with wikipedia's eagle theme < 1361395537 106939 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O at hagb4rd=perdito < 1361395615 984560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PART #esoteric :" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api" < 1361395619 128679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361395628 403125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidental ragepart count today: 2 < 1361395633 88356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what ais523 is typoing
< 1361395651 400495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was attempting to close another tab, succeeding, and repeating the command by mistake < 1361395658 198964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1361395669 923014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first time I tried to close a tab in Firefox, pressed control-q by mistake, then immediately corrected it to control-w < 1361395679 30658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the correction hit Konversation because Firefox had already closed at that point < 1361396205 568913 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm no longer a fan of spelling c-words with a k after the Candy Cake Company tried it < 1361396236 603857 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "kake" a slur or something < 1361396267 841011 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someday we'll behold the merger between CDE and KDE. all new projects will begin with a letter halfway between C and K. < 1361396284 684261 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unicode probably has something like that somewhere. I wonder in which block...) < 1361396327 754252 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :candy cace < 1361396351 390911 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have ctrl+q disabled in my firefox < 1361396370 74396 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I sometimes hit it instead of ctrl+w < 1361396374 992742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ->(-)*5>(+)*5>>>(>[<<<(+)*7<<(+[<{}>++++[<(-)*50(>)*7(>[-[-[-[>>>(+)*100[+]>)*5]]]])*18](-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>>(-)*5<(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*2(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*22])%28]++)*22>(-)*115[-][+][-] < 1361399261 267885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're in Russian < 1361399271 152534 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 0.0 < 1361399275 737457 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1361399286 397314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, *match the sounds < 1361399288 270529 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the mismatch < 1361399316 8034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i recommend an editor with bracket matching hth < 1361399327 587668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they don't match at all < 1361399329 435032 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it doesn't usually, but thanks < 1361399339 157537 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1361399353 940360 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does that match the brackets with the words or the sounds? < 1361399359 911426 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be identical to the last one i submitted yesterday, except with a few more characters shaved < 1361399384 198133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ) before the last *22 doesn't match anything < 1361399402 850867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you match brackets to pauses < 1361399408 887935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're negative sapace < 1361399410 271941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*space < 1361399421 638900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can that posibly be used as an esolang idea? < 1361399437 356043 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1361399438 252294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and () and [] don't nest < 1361399440 307579 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1361399452 607542 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the one i submitted yesterday was broken too < 1361399454 242588 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm told that on PA-RISC, branch delay slots can have branches in them < 1361399468 607625 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you run one instruction from the target of the first branch, and then control continues at the target of the second < 1361399500 113168 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the second branch also have a delay slot? < 1361399509 166326 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5>(+)*5>>>(>[<<<(+)*7<<(+[<{}>++++[<(-)*50(>)*7(>[-[-[-[>>>((+)*100[+]>)*5]]]])*18](-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>>(-)*5<(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*2(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*22])%28]++)*22>(-)*115[-][+][-] < 1361399512 843415 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 38.4 < 1361399527 705061 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonders what fixing a bug can do < 1361399550 522595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION belatedly swats olsner -----###
< 1361399575 942299 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why must you swat me so? < 1361399601 90863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: does that match the brackets with the words or the sounds? < 1361399609 91907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore < 1361399671 246627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, something I learnt in Canada: it's surprisingly hard for me to understand something spoken in English if it's accompanied by French subtitles < 1361399720 327169 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361399728 169317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quel horreur < 1361399771 272121 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've been at Canada? did it exist? < 1361399790 681528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, I've do really well at Stroop tests… < 1361399797 358903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think at least Ottawa exists < 1361399807 553116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite hard to get firm evidence for the rest of it from inside Ottawa < 1361399829 449294 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news for Ottawa < 1361399855 726850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's theoretically possible that Ottawa, despite clearly existing, is not inside Canada < 1361399889 766459 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it's in america ... mexico perhaps? < 1361399915 221324 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fairly sure Montana exists, if it is any help < 1361400013 290171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361400033 694428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands to reason that if you wanted to fake a country you'd fake a capital first < 1361400068 224727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i think i've confirmed before that canada existed back in 1995 or so < 1361400069 931668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361400093 475095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :X crashed, interface looks subtly different after it restarted < 1361400097 299393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: GPU crash < 1361400098 249812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it stands to reason that if you wanted to fake a country you'd fake a capital first < 1361400102 149607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, i think i've confirmed before that canada existed back in 1995 or so < 1361400193 549562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the main opponent at my dissertation was a professor in ottawa. < 1361400208 675391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, there is now a file called intel_gpu_abrt.tar in my home folder, except it's owned by root and dated october 17 < 1361400215 615484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you have competitive dissertations? < 1361400217 940481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i've not personally been in that city < 1361400241 832004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compiz is working harder than usual < 1361400263 538952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that may have been the wrong word < 1361400293 848265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 16530.600] (EE) intel(0): Detected a hung GPU, disabling acceleration. < 1361400303 950829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPU crash it is < 1361400326 770981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what crashed /X/ is apparently that I pressed control-alt-F1 and it didn't switch < 1361400333 873117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that happens, it exits as a failsafe < 1361400406 229446 :GreyKnight!~GK@host86-163-255-138.range86-163.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: zzz for real < 1361400439 401085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think i actually meant "defense" < 1361400496 571285 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, on that note! < 1361400504 844705 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new graphics card arrived < 1361400513 457901 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go to the post office tomorrow and pick it up < 1361400541 901497 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5>(+)*5>>>(>[<<<(+)*7<<(+[<{}>++++[<(-)*50(>)*7(>[-[-[-[>>>((+)*100[+]>)*5]]]])*18](-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>>(-)*5<(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*9([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*9([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*2(>)*7(>[(-)*9([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*22])%28]++)*22>(-)*115[-][+][-] < 1361400544 244187 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 33.7 < 1361400547 579910 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5>(+)*5>>>(>[<<<(+)*7<<(+[<{}>++++[<(-)*50(>)*7(>[-[-[-[>>>((+)*100[+]>)*5]]]])*18](-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>>(-)*5<(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*2(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*22])%28]++)*22>(-)*115[-][+][-] < 1361400549 951553 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 38.4 < 1361400554 312564 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then finally the Chinese Fake Graphics Card Fiasco will finally be over < 1361400555 27597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah maybe there's some kind of cosmic balance here: at any given time, one #esoteric regular must have a broken graphics card < 1361400586 136562 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if what oerjan suggests is true, I am very, very sorry < 1361400599 112483 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only there were some way to drop in an ifzero in bf < 1361400659 792963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that finding a +9 on the tape means it's probably safe to jump 3 to the right, but i can't exploit it without ballooning the program length < 1361400662 195901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :none sufficiently atomic for bfjoust, i suspect < 1361400687 821155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: is this some sort of decoy setup detection? :) < 1361400712 546380 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically. brachiation leaves a +9 three behind where it poked < 1361400735 201489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh I see < 1361400749 425576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's only confused if the opponent tears down that +9 and sets another +9 nearer < 1361400766 262998 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I wonder if an ifzero would be possible < 1361400770 92497 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be somehow < 1361400785 978957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: it's easy, you just have to duplicate it once for each set of nested brackets you're inside < 1361400787 451292 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's the only way to force it to suicide, but it's improbable enough that it would be worth using if it were possible < 1361400791 295820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to do it in one cycle < 1361400798 215917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yeah < 1361400824 776761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're good at writing programs that have theoretical weaknesses but would require a stupidly tuned-to-that-program enemy to exploit them < 1361400835 664148 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nothing < 1361400835 852746 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1361400840 906908 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nothing < 1361400841 95302 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1361400844 839633 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a dot < 1361400849 14 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nothing "" < 1361400851 465976 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_nothing: 3.8 < 1361400856 556168 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1361400878 640405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: btw, if you want some fun, watch waterfall3 versus omnipotence < 1361400882 286742 :willowsbrook!80d3b210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.211.178.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361400905 522690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome willowsbrook < 1361400907 818552 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :willowsbrook: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1361400909 454871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the only time ever that a previously hill-topping program falls off its /own/ end of the tape < 1361400925 133747 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: link me a length and polarity < 1361400934 528751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: 25 sieve, IIRC < 1361400944 583368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't done it for a while, and can't do anything CPU-intensive right now < 1361400959 643201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more likely to have the polarity wrong than the tape < 1361400965 510005 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nop program beats 5 others < 1361400974 790696 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but beating a suicide program doesn't count < 1361400980 560560 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so four < 1361401014 126487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: all with "off enemy end", I guess? < 1361401051 272772 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably. although who knows what happens with olsner_kuskelar_a_clatsop_man < 1361401066 377782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that program makes no sense < 1361401067 685137 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i wish gregor would install the fixed point scoring < 1361401073 933806 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can die < 1361401074 274506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't bother trying to beat it < 1361401084 212197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just rely on fate < 1361401092 826326 :willowsbrook!80d3b210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.211.178.16 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1361401113 945330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you've finished it and Gregor is refusing to install it? < 1361401119 501014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1361401135 733530 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yeah kuskelar falls off enemy's end as well < 1361401146 773029 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i gave it to him some six months ago < 1361401156 169155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1361401163 245679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Gregor -----###
< 1361401350 127916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1361401374 16368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, CPU < 1361401382 855634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GPU is busy doing its job again, you don't have to take over any more < 1361401391 331156 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kuskelar falls off the enemy's end also :) < 1361401404 846570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well it would be either that, or zero its own flag < 1361401421 537093 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fall off its own end < 1361401432 466899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that seems implausible < 1361401450 56376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1361401464 838551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ( was a typo but I couldn't leave it unmatched ) < 1361401471 166046 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1361401500 24052 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only < in the program is immediately followed and preceded by a > < 1361401516 331142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another hilarious matchup is omnipotence versus anticipation2 < 1361401526 928893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(]([) < 1361401540 208665 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1361401556 825868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even entirely sure how it happens, but normally anticipation zeroes its own flag, and leaves it there for two cycles, when omnipotence hasn't even got anywhere near in its clear < 1361401564 391865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's confused by the enemy being so slow < 1361401597 347996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust the_other_death_to_defence (>)*8(>[(.)*20+])*21 < 1361401600 58219 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_the_other_death_to_defence: 6.4 < 1361401617 637706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a variant of the first counter-defence program I ever wrote < 1361401637 658729 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the tape length you said didn't have any suiciding on waterfall3's part < 1361401640 910616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as you can see, it doesn't actually work very well) < 1361401642 413308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: bleh < 1361401646 164390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me quickly do a full run < 1361401701 881128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: at 25 it falls off its own end at one polarity, at 26 it falls off its own end on both < 1361401704 362723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so try it with 26 < 1361401717 124680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any longer length < 1361401719 595608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens on very long tapes < 1361401733 125023 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1361401768 476118 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1361402005 558114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, how do you test your BF Joust programs? I can run a complete set of lengths and polarities in a second, except where slow locks are being used < 1361402021 885287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought that performance was typical < 1361402052 481928 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Values wrap around at 255, right? < 1361402069 791825 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't know what value your flag starts at? < 1361402073 615081 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1361402093 603095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: your flag always starts at 128 < 1361402098 971240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -128, depending on your point of view < 1361402099 660079 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1361402103 359490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does the enemy's < 1361402107 489507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the values in between are always 0 < 1361402115 244185 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it starts at the best value < 1361402119 219982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1361402134 36021 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the strategy of your enemy I suppose < 1361402145 696727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_turtle (>)*8(>[(+)*128>])*21 < 1361402148 570399 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_turtle: 2.7 < 1361402166 507649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1361402169 667125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_turtle (>)*8(>[(+)*128.>])*21 < 1361402172 557473 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_turtle: 15.7 < 1361402175 167919 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1361402183 113757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes me 15.5 wallclock seconds to run the hill (that hasn't been updated in a while), FWIW, re "typical performance". < 1361402183 307015 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking "It did worse than doing nothing" < 1361402198 318270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programs have countermeasures against that sort of thing nowadays < 1361402204 74875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it really stormed the hill when it was first invented < 1361402231 535180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd do better with decoys < 1361402245 969647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_turtle (>(+)*12)*8(>[(+)*128.>])*21 < 1361402248 795045 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_turtle: 11.5 < 1361402259 147380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they'd need to be set intelligently < 1361402285 835134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_turtle (>)*4((+)*8<)*3(+)*8(>)*7(>[(+)*128.>])*21 < 1361402288 663915 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_turtle: 11.3 < 1361402291 133456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1361402297 171091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously I can't set them intelligently :) < 1361402313 656118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_turtle (>)*5(+)*5<((+)*64<)*3(+)*64(>)*7(>[(+)*128.>])*21 < 1361402316 496086 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_turtle: 6.7 < 1361402328 794879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stops trying
< 1361402333 484746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_turtle < < 1361402336 418788 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_turtle: 0.0 < 1361402348 566994 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the first time I saw 0.0 < 1361402374 583299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really easy, that's how you delete a prorgam < 1361402376 58411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program < 1361402474 818574 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suicide [-] < 1361402477 260639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making it lose to everything but copies of itself, possibly with text afterwards < 1361402478 414183 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_suicide: 8.1 < 1361402483 939820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't die faster than going off your own end of the tape < 1361402497 296064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, your suicide does better than a nop because it can end up locking itself on an enemy rush program < 1361402497 783868 :sivoais!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais NICK :JonesTheDolphin < 1361402499 102960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading to a draw < 1361402512 586286 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not understand omnipotence's tape clear at all < 1361402526 172327 :NuclearMeltdown!~rep@unaffiliated/antiliberal QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1361402546 298219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's a full tape clear, except on the first tape element, it tries to clear values nearer 128 faster < 1361402558 568648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it just keeps clearing for a while in case it's playing against a defence program < 1361402567 40526 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but what the hell is the back-and-forth clear for < 1361402568 43917 :JonesTheDolphin!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais NICK :sivoais < 1361402585 812025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's basically because as it has no tripwire, it can end up trying to full-tape clear against an enemy lock < 1361402594 176360 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust survival >[-] < 1361402594 751637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's designed to defeat locks < 1361402596 595334 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_survival: 4.6 < 1361402597 508499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same idea as a timer clear < 1361402611 485822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: exits after the [ because the tape element will be 0 there < 1361402618 635089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want something like >([-])*-1 < 1361402676 273697 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's () < 1361402683 749483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: run length encoding < 1361402690 974362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (+)*100 is equivalent to typing out 100 copies of + < 1361402692 422868 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1361402698 604761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just sugar, but very useful sugar < 1361402721 124670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-1 gives you enough copies that the program would hit the time limit before it stopped running < 1361402722 617639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… < 1361402728 336883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust mischief ()*-1+ < 1361402733 79570 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_mischief: 4.6 < 1361402740 51895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, the interpreter checked for it :) < 1361402764 982640 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@186.222.62.175 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1361402779 524857 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust survival >([-]>)*-1 < 1361402781 927066 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_survival: 14.8 < 1361402786 400230 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one does commit suicide < 1361402808 708524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even survival really more, it's a fast rush program < 1361402812 24768 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p4FDCCFB3.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0/20130215130331] < 1361402816 289690 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust survival >([-])*-1 < 1361402819 973259 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_survival: 3.7 < 1361402824 312876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those historically don't do as well as slow rush programs, but they'll beat programs that are hyperoptimized against slow rush programs < 1361402874 889098 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and what does waterfall3 do that it thinks it a good idea to back off its end of the tape < 1361402900 270182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's doing an inline clear, so it zeros a cell behind the opponent to remember where its flag is < 1361402912 599127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and omnipotence unzeros it again :) < 1361402939 46805 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust survival >(+[-])*-1 < 1361402942 791017 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_survival: 1.8 < 1361402949 396075 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, that did even worse < 1361402973 850862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: protip: actually attacking is usually a good idea < 1361402978 590546 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like a vibrate on cell1 < 1361402982 864713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1361402987 264122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a slow one < 1361402988 478824 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust survival > < 1361402991 42528 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_survival: 3.8 < 1361402997 218841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole point of vibrating is to cause the opponent to miss your flag < 1361402997 407850 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust survival < < 1361403000 31866 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FreeFull_survival: 0.0 < 1361403009 669014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :causing the opponent to miss your /decoys/ is a new and untested strategy < 1361403012 448560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for good reason ;) < 1361403012 939863 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :survival!=suicide < 1361403029 897282 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually its not new < 1361403034 968790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: huh, really? < 1361403051 466117 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used it in an older version of space_hotel to beat counterpoke < 1361403078 155878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*9((+)*64<)*9(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403081 935831 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 5.4 < 1361403091 437080 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1361403095 69463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I screw up the counting there < 1361403097 209161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it just suck? < 1361403098 778204 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just clear your own decoy < 1361403114 498945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1361403119 879420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be the enemy flag < 1361403122 527522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimism! < 1361403126 817703 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1361403139 719829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*8((+)*64<)*8(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403142 467824 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 16.5 < 1361403144 343949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, slightly less insane version < 1361403169 316989 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :works REALLY WELL on one polarity i bet < 1361403175 192558 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and long tapes < 1361403189 735262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the pattern is that it wins on long tapes on one polarity < 1361403195 771818 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it 6 and see < 1361403196 982686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and loses on short tapes and the other polarity < 1361403204 259204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*6((+)*64<)*6(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403207 84952 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 21.6 < 1361403226 246143 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with those pint-sized decoys? make them 85! < 1361403227 57221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer to mess about with the decoy setup so it's not cleared quickly on one polarity < 1361403232 295792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*6((+)*86<)*6(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403235 135580 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 20.3 < 1361403242 459959 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1361403248 833794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I was thinking about the "85 is the largest sensible size for a decoy" thing < 1361403262 105681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided it's wrong, because of /programs that check for size 85 decoys/ < 1361403265 567085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't exist yet < 1361403269 350831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they /could/! < 1361403291 551297 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm unconvinced < 1361403304 507329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*8(((+)*85<)*2((-)*85<)*2)*2(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403305 996625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I :) < 1361403307 549976 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 19.4 < 1361403330 789956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as expected, this version gets a lot more outright wins < 1361403334 9596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does a lot worse when it loses < 1361403354 897736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems more in the spirit of being optimistic < 1361403363 39170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>+)*8(((+)*85<)*2((-)*85<)*2)*2(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403366 741286 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 19.3 < 1361403376 723672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I thought that would make more difference < 1361403381 105563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>+++)*8(((+)*85<)*2((-)*85<)*2)*2(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403382 805276 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't build as many decoys as it used to < 1361403383 905690 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 19.7 < 1361403389 16200 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1361403389 990139 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1361403405 427579 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :try alternating < 1361403405 863508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually getting to tape element 9 quickly is important < 1361403414 787126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can build before the opponent gets there < 1361403423 282232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*8(((+)*85<)*1((-)*85<)*1)*4(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403426 149187 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 18.9 < 1361403433 278655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :less good < 1361403436 401697 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :eenterest < 1361403439 788728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*8(((+)*85<)*2((-)*85<)*2)*2(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403442 621156 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 19.4 < 1361403448 280915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because opponents have alternating clears sometimes < 1361403455 490756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*8(((+)*85<)*3((-)*85<)*1)*2(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-]])*21 < 1361403457 537157 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not often < 1361403458 360727 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 18.8 < 1361403473 647600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*8(((+)*85<)*2((-)*85<)*2)*2(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-][+.++]])*21 < 1361403476 576879 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 19.7 < 1361403486 272742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, antishudder did nothing < 1361403489 158271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me antivibrate too < 1361403491 959705 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.31.206 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1361403499 953405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust optimism (>)*8(((+)*85<)*2((-)*85<)*2)*2(>)*8(>[(+)*20[-][+.++[+.++]]][-.--[-.--]])*21 < 1361403503 73470 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_optimism: 25.9 < 1361403515 935878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the sound of it resoundingly beating anticipation2, I bet < 1361403526 161136 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1361403534 774817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1361403538 199104 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :now resoundingly beat omnipotence < 1361403548 62778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: anticipation2 is fundamentally flawed < 1361403553 814384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that simple change can make /any/ rush program beat it < 1361403565 911339 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1361403566 99978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nobody was bothering with antivibrate at the time < 1361403580 17643 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you are probably wondering why i haven't added it to space_hotel yet < 1361403596 419554 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is simple: meeeehhhhhhh < 1361403597 710598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have no idea whether or not anticipation2 beats space_hotel < 1361403616 163596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm becoming an increasing fan of that 5/3-cycle clear < 1361403646 864357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pretty resoundingly beats every lock in existence, with no currently known countermeasure < 1361403653 142575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a great thing to switch to if you suspect defence < 1361403666 977883 :NuclearMeltdown!~rep@AntiLiberal-1-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1361403689 57381 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the countermeasure is being faster < 1361403694 46051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to resort to such crazy measures to beat vibrate/shudder/lock all at the same time < 1361403697 946098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: well, yes < 1361403706 945905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually how omnipotence works < 1361403724 49956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can defeat that, though, with a simple decoy that doesn't have size 1, 2, 3, or 5 < 1361403750 422082 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is lame and shameful :P < 1361403761 576781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 1, 2, and 3 are the standard strategy < 1361403774 305073 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 4? < 1361403775 55701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 5 is the shameless special case for space_hotel :) < 1361403793 209121 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/shameless/shameful/ < 1361403800 13734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I think we can declare 4-84 the official range of "medium decoys" < 1361403808 504765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, omnipotence itself has no shame < 1361403811 632444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a BF Joust program < 1361403819 425831 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be ashamed < 1361403832 635225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: when you have a program /that/ hill-topping < 1361403839 299275 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm being silly of course < 1361403842 288408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to eke out a few extra points so that it's more impressive when you submit it < 1361403854 866935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like I spent ages getting waterfall3 to 100% wins < 1361403855 634128 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i planar more shameful when i get back in the fall < 1361403860 550119 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag < 1361403864 102897 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i plan on being < 1361403865 870400 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :far < 1361403890 630767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the first instance of blatant shamelessness is waterfall3 against… lead_acetate_philip, I think < 1361403896 191851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check that it is that matchup < 1361403913 157770 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/shamelessness/shamefulness/ < 1361403930 451005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it on 25 sieve, and you'll see what I mean < 1361403935 709919 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoust: a game that will change as soon as shamefulness is maximized < 1361403950 358175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(summary: waterfall3 actually deletes its own decoys to prevent it changing strategy) < 1361403977 408462 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so that's what that deletion is about < 1361403992 630290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it doesn't matter in any other matchup < 1361404001 479678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mostly doesn't happen in other matchups < 1361404004 471580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it detects turtles < 1361404020 234286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it can't know it's against lead_acetate_philip in particular, but the other turtles lose anyway) < 1361404031 252731 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's no such thing as a universally good strategy that doesn't depend on detecting other strategies? < 1361404043 879009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if there is, it'd make the game very boring < 1361404053 933746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that the ffspg/slowpoke/space_elevator strategy was that < 1361404065 490106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it subsequently turned out that there are ways to take advantage of it < 1361404074 545793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_stealth, for instance, beats programs like that quite effectively < 1361404083 225433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although doesn't do so well against other things < 1361404083 888104 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing those have in common is poking afaict < 1361404098 134035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: poke + breadcrumb < 1361404105 786324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all try to detect fast rushes < 1361404117 904528 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :space_elevator does no breadcrumbing < 1361404123 254216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: huh, I thought it did < 1361404132 428738 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does detect fash rushes, but it switches to a more defensive strategy < 1361404138 208393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1361404147 902190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the point of stealth is that it's a fast rush that tries to be detected as a slow rush < 1361404159 843566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the opposite of omnipotence, which is a defence program that tries to be detected as a fast rush < 1361404187 761359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess now we need a slow rush that tries to be detected as defence < 1361404215 51635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't think of a way to make that work, or figure out why it'd win if it did < 1361404266 552051 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder if a BF Joust-like game could be made with similar/same strategic concerns but easier to write code in than BF < 1361404279 115879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I considered making a very cut-down version < 1361404282 614336 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a BF derivative that's an easy mode for BF? < 1361404288 457373 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like BFC < 1361404293 683751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you just abstractly went "poke. decoy. decoy. rush" < 1361404302 890867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were rules for what beat what < 1361404308 885800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be a good way to get started < 1361404333 518050 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a stack-based alternative, where there is your stack and the opponent's stack, but you don't know which one's which < 1361404335 189389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the problem with that method is that there'd be only one fundamentally different fast rush program < 1361404340 13762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count frsc, and that's ridiculous < 1361404366 366553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people keep proposing variants/"improvements" to BF Joust without understanding the fundamentals of what makes it BF Joust < 1361404378 952179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd say that something needs decoys to be considered remotely similar to it strategy-wise < 1361404385 29774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(necessary condition, not sufficient) < 1361404405 893307 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1361404432 654294 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you need decoys < 1361404439 605000 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe stacks aren't the best data structure < 1361404440 908709 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1361404446 627651 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only changes i propose are to fix fundamental flaws. everything else i suggest is completely different bf-based games < 1361404451 524846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, indeed < 1361404461 648530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think there are any fundamental flaws atm? < 1361404466 272385 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1361404468 867985 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two-dimensional would be too complex < 1361404475 835018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the existence of timer clear is worrying me, that's what I see as the biggest problem < 1361404476 802288 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you made the playfields small enough < 1361404479 212304 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the combination of determinism and finite hill size < 1361404484 463526 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the main one < 1361404490 927118 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D sounds good actually < 1361404494 523685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oh, it's the hill you dislike rather than the game rules? < 1361404500 422852 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-193-155.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1361404520 672008 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a finite hill is fine in a nondeterministic games, so it really is the combination of the two < 1361404533 389782 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i really want to see the fixed point scoring added < 1361404564 500218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D BF Joust: commands are north, south, west, east, dig (tells you the number of mines in the 8-neighbourhood, kills you if the current square is mined, wins if you're on the enemy flag), toggle presence of mine < 1361404594 249170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that as a joke but it doesn't seem completely unviable < 1361404597 762610 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1361404606 746351 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about the mines < 1361404611 455214 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minesweep solver written in BF? < 1361404611 644233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you'd start on a randomly-sized rectangle < 1361404620 508794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the whole exterior full of mines, the interior originally non-mined < 1361404656 700972 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not a toroidal playfield? < 1361404659 901830 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so i just completely surround my flag with mines right off, then keep extending the perimeter of my mine fence < 1361404666 741878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: because you have to have some method to locate the enemy flag < 1361404685 360235 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps you could make mine placement trigger explosion if placed on a mine also) < 1361404701 1382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: so the problem using that is that because the playfield is rectangular, the enemy can locate your flag without even getting near your decoys < 1361404702 174859 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Transverse the field somehow < 1361404705 956093 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe leaving marks < 1361404719 618792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want to draw a line all the way across the field < 1361404737 887100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps mine under the opponent just as they tried to dig the square they thought was your flag < 1361404742 762747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flags should be nonminable, obviously) < 1361404755 357681 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how? i don't have to make my mine base symmetrical? and if you don't know where in my giant rectangle of mines my flag is, you're reduced to guessing and dying < 1361404766 899167 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1361404768 168580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well the playfield is rectangular < 1361404783 802929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I measure the distance from my flag to each of the near corners < 1361404789 298972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(your flag being in the far corner) < 1361404793 273253 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to crack this in haskell: http://projecteuler.net/problem=21 < 1361404793 548822 :Sanky!~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1361404798 756489 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i could make the area around my flag indistinguishable from the edge of the playing field