00:01:12 `list 00:01:16 cuttlefish boily elliott Taneb HackEgo Sgeo monqy pikhq Sgeo_ tswett Phantom_Hoover nortti oklopol 00:02:03 * oerjan gives Sgeo a gentle poke 00:02:28 Hopefully not of death 00:02:32 THIS IS NOT THE `LIST YOU ARE LOOKING FOR 00:03:08 `cat bin/WELCOME 00:03:11 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' 00:03:15 I wanted to be sure no unwanted names snuck on it 00:03:41 just sgeo three times 00:04:00 "i'm only on there twice?" 00:04:20 not any more you aren't 00:04:23 how'd you get hackego on it? 00:04:30 `run echo $(which list) 00:04:33 ​/hackenv/bin/list 00:04:39 wow that was dumb 00:04:42 `run cat $(which list) 00:04:46 ​#!/bin/sh \ oldpwd=`pwd`; cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; name=$(cat $(ls ????-??-??.txt | tail -1) | tail -1 | sed "s/[^<]*.*//; s/.*\* //; s/ .*//"); cd $oldpwd; fgrep -q "$name" bin/list || echo -n "$name " >> bin/list; echo cuttlefish boily elliott Taneb HackEgo Sgeo monqy pikhq Sgeo_ tswett Phantom_Hoover nortti oklopol 00:05:05 oh, it has a check 00:05:25 doesthiswork, it's not perfect 00:05:41 what does it do? 00:06:07 list? adds whoever's running it to itself 00:06:38 ah, echo -n >> file doesn't add a newline so it ends up adding to the last line of the script? 00:07:18 rather than adding a new line (which I think the script is lacking some code to handle) 00:11:43 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:14:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:36 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:21:26 hmm, what was it that went in the bit left over by UTF-63? 00:21:43 cthulhu 00:21:44 -!- monqy has joined. 00:24:25 olsner, are you talking about http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2001-m05/0425.html ? 00:25:00 Distinguishes between ASCII and Unicode 00:25:55 although (2^64)/(1114111^3) is actually 13.34, so there's a lot more than a bit left over 00:27:27 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:28 Sgeo: that's very similar to what I was talking about but not it 00:28:10 > 2^64/1114111^3 :: Double 00:28:12 13.339339806819668 00:28:38 I wonder if there are unicode squiggly numerals to indicate approximations 00:29:20 > 2^64/1114112^3 :: Double 00:29:21 13.339303887645023 00:29:26 > 2^64/1114112^3 :: Rational 00:29:28 65536 % 4913 00:31:12 combining squiggle above 00:32:35 olsner: hm let's reserve it for pointer tagging 00:33:10 we can have a language with heap pointers and primitive triples-of-unicode-codepoints as the basic datatypes 00:33:32 apparently 10fffe and 10ffff are noncharacters (and so are xxfffe/ff for all the other planes) 00:33:48 yeah 00:33:52 > 2^64/1114110^3 :: Rational 00:33:54 2305843009213693952 % 172859889139941375 00:34:04 > 2^64/1114110^3 :: Double 00:34:05 good ratio 00:34:06 13.339375726123272 00:34:16 also U+D800 through U+DFFF 00:34:29 so much wasted space! 00:37:17 ah, of course, 4913 is 17^3 00:38:26 the secret illuminati numerology in unicode 00:38:29 you can use 16 bit per character plus a somewhat compact encoding of the plane for each, and then have 64k/17^3 values left to play with 00:42:38 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:44:46 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:47:42 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:56:49 I dreamt about a very strange chess variant, with multiple boards, each piece having four stats (strength, defense, intelligence, and teleport token), if your high priest entered your opponent's church then you gained control over eclipses, and there were various other rules 00:57:23 control over eclipses sounds kickass 00:59:20 Also, pawns promoted into royalty 01:00:38 * quintopia promotes zzo38 to King 01:07:40 what did intelligence do? 01:07:54 I don't know. 01:08:08 A lot of these things I don't know. 01:14:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:14:37 but can it be combined with continuous chess 01:15:07 I don't know. 01:16:15 What I did know is that if any of the stats other than teleport token reach zero, the piece is removed from the game. 01:16:45 Otherwise, all of them (including teleport token) which are damaged will recover by one point at the end of each frame. 01:19:18 how exactly does the teleport work? 01:20:03 I want to learn how to play continuous chess 01:20:30 I don't know exactly, but you can teleport from one board to another, if you have the correct terrains on the board (maybe eclipses affects it too, I don't know for sure) 01:21:24 change intelligence to speed 01:21:37 make it the maximum number of spaces you can move 01:22:51 No, the movements have to do with what kind of pieces it is (like in chess); I think intelligence has something to do with what cards you can play, or something related to that 01:23:19 Actually I think strength and defense also have something to do with what cards you are allowed to play 01:23:30 oh cards 01:23:40 sounds complicated 01:23:53 -!- NuclearMeltdown has quit (Changing host). 01:23:53 -!- NuclearMeltdown has joined. 01:26:21 -!- dessos has joined. 01:27:36 I want to learn how to play continuous chess 01:27:42 this consists of learning the rules 01:27:57 Ok, where can I read them? 01:28:00 although with a new revision, you can now move all your pawn as one 01:28:04 er, trawl the logs 01:28:13 or i guess i could actually write them up 01:28:32 I will love you forever if you write them up 01:28:57 (note: some/all of prior statement may be hyperbole or falsE) 01:34:36 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 01:39:44 http://sprunge.us/ZDHO 01:39:45 i give no guarantees that you will be able to make any sense of this 01:39:45 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:24:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 05:24:16 -!- glogbot has joined. 05:24:17 -!- glogbackup has left. 05:24:18 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:24:18 -!- EgoBot has joined. 05:24:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 05:24:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 05:24:20 -!- glogbackup has quit (Excess Flood). 05:25:40 -!- Gregor has joined. 05:25:40 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:25:50 it's perverse that, when buying a SSL cert, you have no direct incentive to pick a CA with good security practices 05:26:03 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest2624. 05:26:47 hmm 05:27:23 if CA compromise implied customer compromise, would that actually be better for society? 05:27:30 probably not because most cert buyers are clueless 05:27:35 trace execution (when you have N extra RISC cores replicating what the first core did and you space memory IO so that only one core is really using it at the same time) needs instruction cache :( 05:27:46 "wow gee 1024 bits" 05:27:55 "twice as secure as 512" 05:28:08 :o 05:29:12 madbr is on a mission to eliminate caches 05:29:27 or else once you do a memory op, that's like multiple memory ops 05:29:46 and you can't keep your pipeline full unless you have the next instructions cached somewhere :( 05:31:22 kmc : no cache = easier no? :D 05:34:26 actually you could probably do a design without cache but if you have 8 units it stalls for 7 cycles every time you load something 05:37:45 http://quarkphysics.ca/humour/humor10.html 05:38:18 this is some impressively dated humor 05:40:05 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:40:44 yeah 05:43:48 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:44:13 *sigh* 05:44:34 The VP developer's response to "Any chance of documenting the protocol so I don't have to do C interop" is "Feel free to reverse-engineer the protocol" 05:44:52 haha (jerk) 05:45:01 (not literal phrasing of response) 05:45:07 who's VP? 05:45:17 Virtual Paradise 05:45:33 It's a sort of AW clone 05:45:42 advance wars? 05:45:52 Active Worlds 05:48:03 I don't think he'd be willing to open-source even the SDK 05:48:04 though 05:48:06 :( 05:48:16 If he was, I wouldn't mind so much 05:48:25 Well, he did give a bit of documentation 05:48:44 " It's TCP, it sends a 16 bit unsigned int containing the length of a message followed by the message itself. The first byte in the message is the message type " 05:49:02 Which I guess helps a little 05:50:56 use KLEE to extract a protocol from the C library 05:51:00 write PhD thesis 05:51:01 profit 05:52:48 extract a PhD thesis from the C library directly 05:54:31 PhDaaS 05:55:50 I get spam like that sometimes. 05:56:09 a degree mill with a REST API 05:56:12 that would be something 05:56:56 -!- Guest2624 has changed nick to Gregor. 05:56:57 hm, the squamish language uses 7 as a glottal stop. and it's not a glyph that looks like a seven, it is in fact a seven 05:58:04 typewriter orthography 05:58:48 I think huron has "8" (actually a modern version of the greek "ou" ligature) 05:59:14 Bike: o_o 05:59:43 american languages are the best, man 05:59:54 have you seen inukitut orthography? that shit is choice. 06:00:08 i remember cherokee using like, a backwards B 06:00:44 ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ 06:00:48 zhuang has 2-6 06:00:54 Cherokee's great. 06:01:11 Literally by a guy who only *saw* writing before. 06:01:27 but later on they replaced Zhuang 2,3,4,5,6 with z,j,x,q,h 06:01:57 where is zhuang spoken? 06:02:03 china somewhere 06:02:16 a lot of these languages were not written until fairly recently yeah? 06:02:29 it's in the same family as thai 06:02:32 dunno 06:02:49 kmc: Yeah, North American languages largely have *recent* writing systems. 06:03:07 There just weren't that many writing systems pre-Europeans. 06:03:16 cherokee's alphabet was developed by a missionary i think? 06:03:19 what determines whether a group of people develop writing or not 06:03:20 or was it a newspaper 06:03:28 Neither. 06:03:33 shit. 06:03:47 invented by sequoyah, well now 06:03:47 bike: no that's inuit 06:04:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Zhuang#Example 06:04:01 "Latin script" 06:04:03 yeah right 06:04:04 "his was the only time in recorded history that a member of a non-literate people independently created an effective writing system." baller 06:04:10 and the inuit one was originally developed for cree 06:04:10 Sequoyah was a Cherokee man who *saw* writing, thought it was a good idea, and made a writing system for Cherokee. 06:04:23 that is awesome. 06:04:27 "in recorded history" 06:04:42 I suppose the earliest writing systems are on the edge of that 06:04:43 what's wrong with that phrase? 06:05:08 Sgeo: It's generally believed most other writing systems evolved out of proto-writing, rather than being wholy invented. 06:05:08 writing systems were developed rather a long time before history we still have is 06:05:33 does written cherokee count as a conlang then 06:05:42 This is certainly what we see with e.g. Chinese script. 06:05:51 Which evolved basically out of a divination system. 06:05:58 kmc: definitely a conscript. 06:05:58 I can't remember what's the current status on phoenician vs egyptian vs cuneiform 06:06:08 What do you mean the current status? 06:06:20 kmc: and he hadn't even read zompist! 06:06:57 heh 06:07:08 well, what the currently accepted reseach says on how they were invented 06:07:10 You know who else wrote a script for savage people? 06:07:12 CYRILUS 06:07:16 Wayyy before 06:07:32 oh yeah he came up with glagolithic no? 06:07:46 As far as I know the current theory is that cuneiform developed from a tally system? 06:07:47 Like 06:07:48 which then got turfed out by a souped version of greek 06:07:50 counting marks 06:07:57 yeah 06:07:59 my favorite proto-writing is definitely the incan knots 06:08:14 Egyptian I think is unknown 06:08:22 I think the current theory says that phonician was inspired by egyptian 06:08:28 It's not even known if there's a primitive form of egyptian 06:08:34 Or if it was created like that, bam 06:08:43 wasn't it given to them by thoth 06:08:52 Obviously an ALIEN 06:09:10 * Bike learned Egyptian history from vague classicism 06:09:24 woa 06:09:41 zhuang had its own version of chinese characters before they switched to latin 06:09:45 Egyptian is still pretty spotty in places 06:09:47 Like 06:09:55 madbr: I thought everything in the general area did. 06:09:56 The phonological reconstruction is pretty hard 06:10:04 Like Vietnamese. 06:10:06 Although it has progressed a lot by looking at loans 06:10:25 Like how egyptians wrote foreign words and vice versa 06:10:40 Also coptic is descended from egyptian, so it helps 06:10:52 Bike: The degrees to which they were "their own" varied though. 06:11:26 (Although coptic itself is mostly extinct, so that's another problem) 06:11:29 pikhq: you mean the use of hanzi? yeah, i suppose a lot of it was by imperial edict 06:11:47 oh, Zhuang is spoken in Guanxi, didn't they have that massive earthquake last year? 06:12:16 Varying from "whole-sale adoption of the script" to "using the radicals to invent brand new characters" to "taking the concept, clearly having no idea what the radicals are, and making shit up". 06:12:24 oh, well yeah. 06:12:53 None of Japanese or Korean or Vietnamese are even Sino-Tibetan, are they? 06:13:22 Right, yeah. 06:13:50 Of those, Japanese and Korean use/used hanzi straight, while Vietnamese used the radicals to invent new characters. 06:13:53 and i seem to remember kanji having different readings, based on a vaguely Chinese meaning map and a vaguely Japanese one 06:14:04 on/kun or something? 06:14:31 yeah, on'yomi and kun'yomi i guess 06:14:33 Yeah. 06:14:45 What's *great* is Tangut script. 06:14:55 But... that's pronunciation and not meaning, huh. 06:15:06 The more I learn about Japanese the more amazed I am anyone can figure it out... 06:15:41 Tangut used the *concepts* of Chinese script, and made it all up from there. 06:16:14 It's like someone saw Chinese once. 06:16:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bushell's_1896_decipherment_of_Tangut_characters.jpg Fucking crazy. 06:16:37 " 06:16:39 The [Tangut] language is remarkable for being written in one of the most inconvenient of all scripts, a collection of nearly 5,800 characters of the same kind as Chinese characters but rather more complicated; " i love it 06:17:20 What, those are numbers? 06:17:23 日本語はこんなに難しくないと思うんだって…… 06:17:24 Yes. 06:17:30 eleven strokes for the number four? 06:17:42 Yes. 06:17:56 Though I'm only counting 10. 06:18:01 i guess chinese wasn't complicated enough? 06:18:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:18:16 * Bike doesn't know how to count strokes 06:18:20 No, 11. 06:18:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:18:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:18:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:18:58 It's a tiny bit hard to do with Tangut, because some of those strokes are fucking *strange*. 06:19:18 (how many strokes is that set that looks like ろ, anyways?) 06:19:24 annihilated by genghis khan 06:20:17 I'm a bit amazed at the complete lack of pictographs. 06:20:48 Most of the really basic Chinese glyphs are pictographic in origin. 06:21:14 I want to know how this Renrong guy came up with this. What was wrong with the Chinese numerals, for instance? 06:21:22 Though the pictographicness of stuff like 馬 or 虎 is hard to tell. 06:23:48 oh nice, the vietnamese had a sort of dialect of Chinese script for writing Chinese, and then their own Chinese script for writing Vietnamese. 06:24:28 http://www.csd.uwo.ca/staff/magi/personal/humour/Computer_Audience/polyglot.%5Bcob|pas|f77|c|ps|sh|com%5D.html 06:24:38 7 languages at once 06:24:52 yeah that's a classic 06:24:53 Are any of them Burman? 06:25:02 nice comment delimiters 06:25:20 someone here (Gregor?) wrote a crazy polyglot 06:26:27 i did a shell/python/haskell/c/com/brainfuck one 06:26:35 which is pretty short 06:26:53 I liked that one where you ran it in Ruby and got a C program out, and then ran that and got a shell proram, or whatever, and so on. 06:26:59 yeah 06:27:06 How about a polyglot in esolangs that have no comments? 06:28:09 you could probably make a brainfuck/befunge polyglot pretty easily, insofar as befunge lacks comments 06:28:12 kinda wonder what programming would look like if it was invented by ppl that speak tonal languages 06:28:28 i should shove C++ in too 06:28:36 why would pronunciation matter? 06:28:42 would probably all be stack based if it were invented by people that speak verb final languages :D 06:28:51 oh right, can't easily 06:28:59 bike : the character set would definitely be different 06:29:14 what if they spoke a tonal language that uses the latin alphabet, huh?? 06:29:28 probably the most unpleasant thing about my polyglot is that it needs to start with a blank line 06:29:31 like vietnamese? hm 06:29:54 Knowing how programming goes, the character set regardless of whatever it was would be hacked together and *just enough* to represent language, to start with. 06:30:09 i don't thing how your natural language is pronounced is going to influence the basic ideas of recursive grammars 06:30:13 but i'm not a linguist. 06:30:17 might have just come up with sometehing like C but where tone marks count as part of identifiers 06:30:18 I'm imagining a crazy thing like Chinese script with *one* character of each pronunciation. 06:30:27 So you just use it as a god-damned weird syllabary. 06:30:46 Of course, Japanese folk would just shove in katakana. 06:30:48 chinese used to be closer to that I think 06:30:49 Like they did. 06:31:00 madbr: Chinese script is still syllabic in nature. 06:31:03 but then with time some characters became homophones 06:31:16 Each glyph is still exactly one syllable. 06:31:18 yeah but there are a lot more homophones now 06:31:37 Yeah, but not as many as in Japanese. 06:31:39 Tone helps. 06:31:41 It's also hard to draw conclusions about natural language -> formal language... I mean all European languages I know of are SVO but mathematical notation is pretty verb-initial, so to speak. 06:32:07 supposedly classic chinese had about 5000 different syllables, down to about 3000 in cantonese, and down to 1200 in mandarin 06:32:16 madbr: Are you accounting for tones? 06:32:23 is that even phonologically possible- oh, tones 06:32:25 without tone mandarin is 400 06:32:41 bike: english has like 5000+ syllables too 06:32:59 For comparison, Japanese has maybe 80 possible morae. 06:33:13 Yeah, English has a shit-ton of syllables. 06:33:17 Consonant clusters. 06:33:27 Remember, "strengths" is a single syllable. 06:33:38 * Bike bad at phonetics :( 06:34:49 yeah english tends to be dense 06:35:02 due to so many consonant + vowel + consonant syllables 06:35:25 And consonant clusters are entirely permissible, which adds to it. 06:35:28 English has an unusual amount of vowels 06:35:39 This too. 06:35:47 And moderately unusual consonants. 06:35:51 doesthiswork : yeah but so do other northwestern european languages 06:35:51 and since that is a tigher limit raising it has the bigger effet 06:36:00 (though I don't think it's got too many consonants *in and of itself*...) 06:36:07 pikhq: nah, the consonant inventory is actually pretty standard 06:36:16 except for th and the weird variety of r 06:36:27 swedish has 9 06:36:32 madbr: th and th are both pretty weird. 06:36:45 Fuck it, þ and ð. There, that's better. 06:36:56 yeah but they're like only 2 sounds 06:36:57 thud 06:37:06 icelandic 4 lyfe 06:37:20 and the rest of the consonant inventory is like a list of all the most common consonants in the world 06:37:44 pikhq: θ and ð 06:38:02 doesthiswork: þ and ð are how you write them in (hilariously old) Germanic languages. :P 06:38:17 those two sigils were interchangeable 06:38:25 Bah, humbug. 06:38:28 i had a math prof who wrote the days of the week as MTWΘF 06:38:41 nerd 06:38:48 kmc: Not bad, that way you know the difference each one 06:38:55 I like that 06:38:59 i like it too :) 06:39:00 what did he do for saturday/sunday 06:39:06 i don't think it came up 06:39:10 sigma? 06:39:38 (I have also seen "R" for Thursday sometimes; it can be used in case you are using only English alphabets, for whatever reason) 06:39:41 i don't know how you would spell those english words using greek orthography 06:39:51 yeah, R is okay 06:40:16 sadly I don't think contemporary english has any words containing þ 06:40:26 even though we still have umlauts and diacritics in a few places 06:40:40 Yeah, þ died with the printing press. 06:40:43 the þs turned into ys or something 06:40:50 yup 06:41:08 when you write trhorn really sloppy it looks like y 06:41:13 *thorn 06:41:15 日月火水木金土 Man, CJK has it easier. 06:42:02 i wonder how to type ð with compose key 06:42:06 i can do đ but it's not the same 06:42:23 i just do altgr-d like a sensible person 06:42:26 boo 06:42:34 do i really need compose *and* altgr? 06:42:39 i could add it to my compose file 06:42:43 dh 06:42:49 Compose-d-h 06:42:58 thanikhq! 06:43:01 pikhq: that's japanese 06:43:10 chinese has 1-7 :D 06:43:23 madbr: Chinese used to do that too. 06:43:36 1-7 is a 20th century thing. 06:43:36 or was it 1-6 with a special one of 7 06:43:39 I can't remember 06:43:57 yeah but they gave up on names... that would never happen in europe :D 06:49:23 One user complained that their program executed, but didn't do anything. The scon looked at it for twenty minutes before realizing that they'd commented out EVERY LINE. The user said, "Well, that was the only way I could get it to compile." 06:56:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:06:21 doesthiswork: He obviously lied. 08:06:51 echo > program.c && gcc -o program program.c && chmod +x program 08:08:54 maybe it wasn't c? 08:09:14 mroman: That's actually not valid C. 08:09:44 I'm not 100% sure, it might be a valid *translation unit*. 08:10:38 But definitely not a valid program: does not have int main(int,char*) *or* int main(). 08:11:00 isn't that mroman's point 08:11:31 Ah, hrm. 08:11:45 didn't IOCCC accept an empty program as a quine 08:11:54 on the basis that some compiler would translate it to a no-op binary 08:12:19 presumably the C spec allows implementation-defined alternatives to main() 08:12:21 i,i WinMain() 08:17:09 It does permit implementation-defined entry points, yeah. 08:17:21 Actually, given that, it is conformant C, but not strictly conformant. 08:24:40 What was the 8-bit character set used in Amiga computer? 08:29:43 Are you thinking of PETSCII? 08:29:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:30:18 I'm pretty sure the Amiga used normal ASCII though. 08:30:42 Actually, I mean whatever character set is used in .MOD on Amiga. I mean 8-bits, I know the 7-bits is ASCII 08:32:54 Is it weird that I like Harry Potter fanfics even though I've only read the first four books? 08:33:07 Slightly. 08:33:09 what sort of harry potter fanfics are we talking here 08:33:18 By the way, those are the weaker of the series. 08:34:55 HPMOR and The Strange Disappearance of Sally-Anne Perks 08:35:13 Still reading the latter 08:35:22 Is it possible to tell GCC to compile the newest files at first? 08:35:30 HPMOR is kinda-insanely spoiler heavy. 08:35:37 Can it be done in the shell scripting? 08:36:16 pikhq, I'm fine with HP spoilers, have read some 08:36:43 joke about someone killing someone else, double joke whereby 08:37:43 After the 7th book came out, I searched for spoilers since I wanted to know how it ended. I'm a bit hazy on the details though 08:39:38 iirc everybody except the mainest characters die 08:39:53 Bike: Not really. 08:40:09 Though it is definitely a "anyone can die" thing going on. 08:41:29 Hike 08:41:33 hho38 08:41:56 hhhfsca 08:52:14 I love how fanfic writers can take a little continuity error and just run with it 08:52:17 This is awesome 08:53:20 my favorite fanfic writer is hans von hozel 08:53:56 ditto 08:56:07 apparently hans von hozel doesnt exist on fanfiction.net anymore??? rest in peace :'( i hope his stories were archived 08:56:40 /whois hans von hozen 08:59:48 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 09:08:11 -!- blsqbot has joined. 09:08:13 !blsq ?? 09:08:13 "Burlesque - 1.7.1" 09:10:15 is that the one where sally ann perks is ariana dumbledore in disguise? 09:10:21 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:10:47 !bfgen Hello, World! 09:10:59 Hm. 09:12:12 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 09:12:17 ​128 +++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>++++++.>++.+++++++..+++.>.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>-. [574] 09:15:12 Ah. 09:20:48 pikhq, I think there are things in HPMOR that I don't understand due to lack of canon knowledge 09:20:58 e.g. Elder Wand references 09:21:04 (Reading /r/hpmor) 09:30:02 GameBoy audio seems like difficult to program compared to Famicom audio, and has no software envelopes, apparently only hardware envelopes can be used 09:30:14 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:36:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 09:43:47 -!- aloril has joined. 09:58:42 -!- md_5 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:04:44 Classical logic is not applicable for self reference statements. Do you agree? 10:06:01 You sure like to ask random questions out of the blue 10:06:26 zzo38: I don't know what you mean. 10:07:23 In GEB, Hofstadter is defining the system as inconsistent by having two statements X and ~X both theorems, but I didn't (and still don't) like that; shouldn't it be, it is inconsistent if all well formed strings are theorems? At least it seems better to me. 10:08:16 That's not always true, though. 10:08:24 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraconsistent_logic 10:08:27 "all well-formed strings are theorems -> inconsist" implies "x ^ ~x -> inconsistent" 10:08:49 But "x ^ ~x -> inconsistent" does not imply "all well-formed strings are theorems -> inconsistent" 10:09:01 Hmm, I really need to word that better 10:09:09 Sgeo: Yes, I know all that. I understand you. 10:09:45 zzo38, so, you want a theory in which x ^ ~x can be proved, but as long as there's a statement which cannot be proved, it is not inconsistent? 10:09:50 shachaf: Example of classical logic not applicable to self reference, may be: [1] [2] Both statements are false. 10:10:35 Sgeo: I am not saying I do or do not want any of these things; I am simply saying that the definition of being inconsistent by having X and ~X seem not a good definition to me. 10:11:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:13:33 oerjan: Hello, which one do you want, today? 10:13:47 Why are 1-20-13 stickers still being advertised? 10:13:49 -!- md_5 has joined. 10:13:49 the purple one 10:13:52 Surely the ads cost money... 10:15:33 oerjan: What is *your* opinion of all of this "logic" stuff? (see logs) 10:16:19 zzo38: i don't think i'm in shape today to form an opinion on that kind of stuff 10:16:21 fungot defies logic. Checkmate. 10:16:22 Jafet: but then your upload rate will always suck. :p i think that should work 10:16:36 my favorite self referential paradox is curry's paradox 10:16:39 1.Tasmanian devils have strong jaws. 10:16:39 2.The second sentence on The List is circular. 10:16:39 3.If the third sentence on The List is true, then every sentence is true. 10:16:39 4.The List comprises exactly four sentences. 10:16:45 No, not checkmate. It is just check. 10:17:41 doesthiswork: I didn't see that. Now I did. 10:18:14 fungot 10:18:14 shachaf: the fastest i can get one from sörnäs too, if you write code in a library listening to music 10:18:18 ^stylle 10:18:19 I don't see how that's a paradox 10:18:19 ^style 10:18:19 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 10:18:28 There are several consistent resolutions to it 10:18:32 Sgeo: It's just the third sentence. 10:18:39 5.The butler isn't the thief. 10:18:48 Oh, I think I forgot the meaning of if 10:19:17 2 and 4 are obviously true, 1 is plausible 10:19:28 3 being true seems to be consistent as long as the others are true. 10:19:50 yup that is the paradox 10:20:12 * Sgeo is trying to figure out whether 3 can be false 10:20:49 f->f is t 10:21:48 hmm, I see, I think. 10:22:21 it has some very odd properties 10:22:39 if you duplicate it on the list then it is able to be false 10:24:06 and the direction of causality seems to be backwards 10:27:57 http://dailysciencefiction.com/fantasy/fairy-tales/dani-atkinson/said-the-princess 10:28:00 -!- ogrom has joined. 10:39:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:46:11 Hm. 10:46:28 !blsq 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222^^2\/?dr@.%{0==}ayn! 10:46:29 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 10:46:36 sometimes lazyness breaks :( 10:47:51 !blsq 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222^^2\/?dr@.%-] 10:47:51 0 10:47:57 ok 10:48:02 modulo is lazy 10:48:09 > any (==0) [0..] 10:48:10 True 10:48:23 !blsq 0R@{0==}ay 10:48:23 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 10:48:41 Burlesques any behaves different :( 10:49:23 oh 10:49:26 yeah :) 10:49:37 it uses a foldl with or 10:49:53 > foldl1 (||) $ map (==0)[0..] 10:49:58 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 10:49:59 that can't work. 10:53:08 -!- nooga has joined. 11:17:00 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:23:12 @src any 11:23:12 any p = or . map p 11:23:18 @src or 11:23:18 or = foldr (||) False 11:23:28 it needs to be a foldr to be lazy 11:24:01 it needs to be a foldMap to be easy 11:24:24 * oerjan mappends shachaf with the swatter -----### 11:25:23 I just wrote a response to a subcomment on the post that ended up being longer than the original post. 11:25:26 And it's about monads. :-( 11:25:40 oooooooooooooooooooooops 11:25:52 monqy: "sry" 11:25:55 should have made it about monoids maybe it'd be easier??????? 11:26:11 monqy: dont you think the monoids/easy thing is a bit overdone 11:26:12 monads _are_ monoids. sheesh. 11:26:36 * Sgeo reddit-stalks shachaf and doesn't see a comment newer than 2 months old 11:26:47 shachaf, oerjan, sgeo: :-) 11:26:53 Sgeo: did you know part of the internet exists that isn't reddit 11:27:34 monqy: : ———————————— ¦ 11:27:52 :¬/ 11:28:05 * Sgeo vaguely wants to find a pdf -> epub converter that isn't Calibre 11:28:41 ⋰¬/ 11:28:59 simplicity: 11:29:00 ꜘ 11:29:18 Sgeo: anyway it's on "that other website" 11:29:29 monqy: ᓳ 11:29:51 :¬ 11:29:58 -!- nooga has joined. 11:30:16 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:30:43 Hmm. 11:30:44 other website??? sounds sketchy 11:30:44 29FE TINY [⧾] 11:30:44 29FF MINY [⧿] 11:31:13 Nothing recent and relevant on either SO or Hacker News 11:31:34 shachaf: idea: what if monoids being easy being overdone is overdone: what now/checkmate??? 11:33:22 monqy: are you some kind of overdoneintuitionistperson 11:34:01 an ideas man 11:34:07 today my ideas is that 11:36:01 oh 11:36:07 i was waiting for you to finish that sentence 11:36:12 but the idea came already 11:36:36 btw today is already tomorrow so what's yesterdays/tomorrows ideas¿ 11:37:00 i dont think time works like that shachaf -an idea 11:37:32 wait 11:37:40 hang on one minute was that another idea 11:37:48 how many ideas do we get a day 11:38:10 what if everything i say is an idea -an idea 11:38:19 oh no 11:38:25 maybe thats why im an ideas man -an idea 11:38:36 if i give you my email address will you spam me with ideas 11:38:42 no im not a spam man 11:38:48 oh 11:38:52 will you email me with ideas 11:38:59 im not an email man either 11:39:28 oh no 11:39:37 if i give you my irc address will you irc me some ideas 11:40:28 ☺ 11:40:55 ☻ 11:41:36 is that a plant bulb 11:42:46 monqy dont be racist 11:43:14 ☹ 11:43:57 The faces in U+2639–U+263B were designed to irritate my OCD. 11:44:42 ion: What about 261A-261F? 11:45:03 shachaf: heh 11:45:27 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:48:51 !blsq 0R@0Fi 11:48:51 0 11:49:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:49:08 !blsq 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222^^2\/?dr@.%0Fi 11:49:09 0 11:49:17 !blsq 13^^2\/?dr@.%0Fi 11:49:17 -1 11:49:58 !blsq 13^^2\/?dr@.%0Fi0<.{"Prime""Not so prime"}ch 11:49:58 "Prime" 11:50:19 !blsq 222^^2\/?dr@.%0Fi0<.{"Prime""Not so prime"}ch 11:50:20 "Not so prime" 11:50:32 !blsq ?? 11:50:32 "Burlesque - 1.7.1" 11:50:35 !blsq hi 11:50:35 ERROR: Unknown command: (hi)! 11:50:46 * shachaf looks up 11:50:59 -!- carado has joined. 11:51:17 shachaf: http://mroman.ch/burlesque 11:55:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:56:18 i'm getting some ursala-but-taking-itself-less-seriously vibes from some of this "about" stuff 11:57:05 remember when i learned some ursala and never bothered to learn the rest? i forgot it all. probably easy to relearn. not going to bother 11:57:57 ? 11:58:04 wait what's ursala 11:58:08 you've talked about it before.... 11:59:33 Some sort of language that people in here disliked 11:59:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:59:36 iric 11:59:37 iirc 11:59:40 disliked???? 12:00:01 i dont think its possible to dislike ursala 12:00:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:00:59 https://github.com/gueststar/Ursala/ / https://gitorious.org/ursala-manual 12:01:26 looks like the manual's in the first repo too.. 12:01:30 probably more up to date thee 12:01:32 there 12:02:06 https://github.com/gueststar/Ursala/tree/master/contrib code examples!! 12:03:10 I almost want to call it an esolang, but J isn't an esolang 12:05:24 i suggest learning ursala as your next language 12:10:01 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:14:01 j doesnt count as esoteric? 12:16:29 no 12:21:00 oh 12:21:03 that's ursala. 12:21:11 Yeah. I've stumbled upon it years ago :) 12:23:01 The manual is 500 pages long o_O 12:23:53 hm 12:24:12 is there a image library to render images without using I/O? 12:24:15 for haskell. 12:25:52 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:27:47 monqy: can i have one more idea 12:27:50 before i go to sleep 12:34:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:35:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:44:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:44:58 !blsq {0 1}{^^++[+[-^^-]\/}1500.*\[e!vv 12:44:58 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 12:45:02 !blsq {0 1}{^^++[+[-^^-]\/}500.*\[e!vv 12:45:03 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 12:45:07 !blsq {0 1}{^^++[+[-^^-]\/}100.*\[e!vv 12:45:07 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 12:45:13 !blsq {0 1}{^^++[+[-^^-]\/}50.*\[e!vv 12:45:13 12586269025 12:46:02 !blsq {0 1}{^^++[+[-^^-]\/750.*\[e!vv 12:46:03 ERROR: (line 1, column 32): 12:46:14 !blsq {0 1}{^^++[+[-^^-]\/}70.*\[e!vv 12:46:14 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 12:46:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:50:14 Help I'm scared to go to sleep 12:53:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:54:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:56:33 I'm still feeling the same weird way I did when I woke up 12:56:42 Scared what if I can't breathe when I wake up 12:56:48 I felt horrible yesterday 13:03:04 3h 54m 59s 13:03:10 ? 13:04:01 He told you the time you have left to live 13:04:13 afte that he's gonna kill you while you're sleeping. 13:05:04 But no. Seriously. 13:05:04 You woke up unable to breathe? 13:06:24 I can talk o_O 13:08:37 4h 32s 13:08:49 ^- also, the time is increasing. So no worry ;) 13:11:25 mroman, I woke up feeling almost but not quite like I was trying to vomit, and having a bit of trouble breathing through that 13:13:04 Sgeo: while in general you seem to have a need to break off from your dad, i _do_ vaguely recall that he is a doctor. maybe you should call him, or otherwise get to another doctor. 13:13:56 I did mention it to him, although I don't know if I really described what I went through last morning 13:14:24 i mean i'm not a doctor, but my hunch says it could be either anxiety or an actual heart problem 13:14:58 It... felt more like a stomach problem 13:15:06 (of course it could be completely different) 13:15:08 ah. 13:16:08 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 257 seconds). 13:20:01 Lots of flu around this time of year too 13:20:01 Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 13:20:06 @messages 13:20:06 oerjan said 6d 3h 56m 53s ago: also my PS3 controller on my desk random came to life and blinked the 4 LEDS a couple of times <-- probably just the google cloud trying to print 13:20:15 oerjan, :D 13:23:44 IT'S THE OBVIOUS EXPLANATION 13:25:24 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:28:14 Per my dad's suggestion, going to walk outside a bit before going to sleep 13:28:52 -!- atehwa_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:35:34 borp 13:39:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:39:29 @hoogle a -> [b] -> (a -> b -> (c, a)) -> [c] 13:39:29 No results found 13:39:51 @hoogle a -> [b] -> (a -> b -> (c, a)) -> ([c], a) 13:39:52 No results found 13:39:53 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:40:06 :t mapAccumL 13:40:08 (acc -> x -> (acc, y)) -> acc -> [x] -> (acc, [y]) 13:40:51 i thought hoogle did better argument rearrangement than that 13:42:53 Also would need tuple rearrangement? 13:42:57 oerjan: have I mentioned that State is the wrong way around 13:42:59 well yeah 13:43:06 yes, yes you have 13:43:20 :t state 13:43:22 MonadState s m => (s -> (a, s)) -> m a 13:43:37 Wrong way around? As in, the tuple? 13:44:02 Hmm, why does it matter? Because of possibility or lack thereof of using (,)? 13:44:02 yes 13:44:21 inconsistent with mapAccumL, the Functor instance, etc. 13:44:32 leading to many uses of "swap' 13:44:33 *" 13:46:55 OTOH, “state . randomR” works. 13:47:35 that's because Random is backwards too 13:51:37 :t randomR 13:51:38 (RandomGen g, Random a) => (a, a) -> g -> (a, g) 13:51:40 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:51:45 Or maybe everything else is backwards 13:51:56 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:52:10 (Or is there an asymmetry? 13:52:13 ) 13:52:26 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:52:34 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:53:06 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:53:51 Sgeo: yes, the Functor instance. 13:53:58 you cannot give a Functor instance for (_,e) but you can for (e,_) 13:54:06 Ah, good point. 13:54:40 and e.g. the fmap for the State monad matches the fmap for (e,_), which is opposite to (fmap.fmap) on its representation 13:54:51 similarly mapping over the random value you generated is more useful than mapping over the resulting generator 13:56:00 more uselessly you can express State as the adjunction between ((->) e) and ((,) e) in Haskell (directly, since they're both functors Hask -> Hask) whereas (_, e) of course doesn't work because of the Functor thing 14:01:25 Maybe I'll set an alarm to wake me up in 4 hours, then go back to sleep 14:05:13 > "aaaabbc" \\ "abbcc" 14:05:17 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 14:05:19 > "aaaabbc" \\ "abbcc" 14:05:21 "aaa" 14:07:34 " Not recommended to microwave (I forget the exact phrasing of the microwave bit)" <-- as a general rule nothing can be cooked in the microwave unless explicitly made for it 14:08:20 fresh but refrigerated pizza isn't explicitly made for microwave cooking, is it? 14:09:26 well, that was cooked before being refrigerated, right? 14:12:31 if not I would say it's a clear example of something that requires non-microwave cooking 14:28:40 !blsq "aaaabbc" "abbcc" \\ 14:28:40 "aaa" 14:29:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:31:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:31:42 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:37:02 mroman: Is it supposed to return "abbc" ? 14:41:27 Nope. 14:41:44 > "aaaabbc" \\ "abbcc" 14:41:46 "aaa" 14:41:53 "aaa" is correct. 14:42:32 it's what i needed, anyway 14:42:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:43:38 !blsq "aaaabbc"NB"abbcc" \\ 14:43:38 "" 14:48:51 * FreeFull looks up the definition of \\ again 14:50:20 list difference 14:51:56 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 14:59:07 Oh, difference, not intersection like I thought 15:14:08 -!- trout has changed nick to variable. 15:39:21 in brainfuck , accepts a number from 0 to 255? 15:39:57 that's common yes. although some implementations use -1 for EOF. 15:46:07 oerjan, -1 would be 255, how could you tell the difference? 15:46:22 assuming 2-complement at least 15:46:37 Vorpal: there is no way 15:46:55 nortti, exactly 15:47:14 Vorpal: you are assuming 8-bit 15:47:35 -1 makes more sense if you'e >8 bit 15:47:45 oerjan, well yes, given the range 0 - 255 or -128 - 127 15:48:17 although i guess it may more often be just an artifact of using C getchar 15:48:17 255 is -1 15:48:35 ASSUMING 8 BIT i said 15:48:50 ah, you already went past the whole 255 is -1 thing earlier, never mind 16:11:03 just made a brainfuck interpreter in lua http://bpaste.net/show/YJWGQ0DQRwuAs4EPjxP4/ 16:13:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:18:32 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 16:20:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:25:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:46:25 what language is that? 16:46:28 oh you said lua 16:48:45 Lua is creepy. 16:50:02 how so 16:51:20 Array indices. 16:52:19 sym = C(S"+-*/") * V"ws", 16:52:26 ^- and that looks Creepy 16:53:05 I'm not saying it's bad. 16:53:47 I don't know Lua well enough. 16:56:01 i made a brainfuck interpreter in TI-BASIC at school yesterday 16:56:12 i should type the code into a thingy 17:06:41 hm 17:13:59 http://bpaste.net/raw/3PIANdqlzqCqcVs69upO/ 17:14:23 the sample code asks for two numbers and multiplies them 17:14:42 i'm not sure how efficient it is (the bf code) but it takes like 20 seconds 17:15:06 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 17:16:09 oh it's pretty "optimal" 17:16:47 What's with all the unclosed parenthesis 17:16:54 I don't speak expensive calculators 17:25:40 I guess all parens get closed automatically at the end of a line 17:26:22 http://codepad.org/3sHWeRWi 17:26:27 ^- that's freaky o_O 17:26:57 (Q pushes the remaning code to the stack 17:27:11 q pops code from the stack and replaces the left to execute code with it) 17:27:29 Now I just need to find a use for it. 17:28:50 mroman: Seems useful for code modification 17:29:06 Maybe something like lisp macros but stacky 17:29:10 You can already manipulate code on the fly by using eval 17:29:20 Yeah but this is another way 17:29:26 like 17:29:28 but this is another way of doing it, yes 17:57:07 -!- Bike has joined. 18:07:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:28:14 olsner: indeed 18:28:53 and TI-BASIC code is faster when it's shorter! so that kind of thing is pretty common 18:30:07 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:30:21 i wrote a bf interpreter in ti-basic when i was in high school 18:30:29 with visualization 18:30:41 amazing what boredom with your classes can do 18:31:19 mine supports "visualization" too if you just add like "Output(1,1,L1" to the main loop 18:31:38 because it's so slow you can just see your code execute step by step 18:31:50 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 18:31:58 it's like 5 instructions per second 18:33:21 yeah no i meant real visualization, where it displays the part of the code being executed and points to the current command, and it displays the part of the tape being modified and points to the current cell 18:33:45 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:33:45 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 18:33:45 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:34:10 also i dealt with the slow speed by adding an extra command: "a" which was equivalent to "++++++++++" 18:37:50 -!- kallisti has quit (Client Quit). 18:38:05 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:38:05 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 18:38:05 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:52:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:54:12 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:55:46 -!- yiyus has joined. 18:57:19 this cheese has a Data Matrix code printed on the rind 19:00:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:01:39 in retrospect, TI-83 was a great platform for beginning to learn programming 19:02:03 i spent a lot of time riding school buses and waiting for school buses 19:02:06 it allowed me to use that time 19:02:18 and it was unambiguously mine, unlike my parents' computer which i or they would worry about me breaking 19:02:53 My parents thought I might break the computer by programming and typing in the wrong stuff... 19:03:10 and it could do enough things (drawing, graphing, easy text-based menus) to be interesting 19:03:17 while still being very easy to dive in 19:03:21 I'm second generation. It's handy 19:03:43 and you could share your stuff with your friends via link cable, which added a social component 19:03:57 i think the last part is the biggest difference between now and when i was in middle / high school 19:04:06 now kids will want to upload their TI programs to facebook 19:04:09 On the other hand, I have a Casio graphical calculator 19:05:05 i did a 4-shade mandelbrot set renderer in TI-83 BASIC 19:05:09 it took like an hour 19:06:12 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:06:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:06:27 Hello 19:06:27 AnotherTest: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:07:03 AnotherTest, are you becoming the new me? 19:07:10 `pastelogs Hello 19:07:31 Taneb: I hope not :p 19:07:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30174 19:08:43 AnotherTest, look at that 19:12:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:21 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:15:52 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 19:19:59 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:21:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:26:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:26:49 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 19:30:22 BASIC was just barely fast enough to do 4-color greyscale by quickly loading saved monochrome images in order 19:31:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:32:26 oerjan: hi 19:32:43 hi elliott 19:34:33 i've considered making 19:34:39 TI-BASIC lisp 19:34:59 but it'd be really hard to make (though technically possible with lots of string bullshit) 19:35:23 but it'd be... so slow... 19:36:04 The new TI are probably much faster. 19:36:17 mine even has color display and touchscreen. 19:36:31 not that a color display is something you'd want for a calculator. 19:36:48 except for plotting multiple functions it is utterly useless. 19:38:40 wow i'm looking at a review for "axe parser" on ticalc.org 19:38:44 and this guy's scoresheet is 19:39:03 Syntax: 9/10 Speed: 10/10 Usability: 9/10 Practicality: 10/10 Learning curve: Y=2X 19:39:07 Overall: Y=2X+38/40 19:40:37 axe parser 19:41:57 mroman: can it plot functions with 2 input parameters? 19:42:33 ...can you add a constant to an equation like that? I don't think you can 19:43:35 looks lame 19:43:58 http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/ss/804/80422.gif <- what's that? 19:44:24 game of life? 19:45:29 I actually wrote a multiplayer TI game once. It was pretty bad but some kids actually played it 19:46:21 I sort of had a singleplayer option, but it was pretty boring as you had to defeat the same monster over and over again 19:47:08 which became impossible after a few level ups, because the monster strength calculation was done using a really bad formula 19:49:56 man, two years ago i wrote something kinda like an idle rpg 19:50:16 you had to mine for resources to sell them to buy upgrades to mine for better resources. 19:50:39 so its minecraft 19:50:47 idle minecraft yes 19:50:51 with much more "tiers" 19:50:53 http://datamuseum.dk/site_dk/rc/gierdoc/naur8.pdf 19:50:57 mindlecraft 19:51:15 it literally had iron/gold/diamond in it but it went on to all kind of ridiculous things 19:51:15 mildly interesting 19:51:22 someone should make a game were you attack guys using functions 19:51:36 like I attack you with f(x) = 2x + 1 19:51:36 AnotherTest1: http://www.graphwar.com/ 19:52:13 Graphwar is an artillery game in which you must hit your enemies using mathematical functions. The trajectory of your shot is determined by the function you wrote, and your goal is to avoid the obstacles and your teammates and hit your enemies. The game takes place in a Cartesian Plane. 19:52:20 * someone should make a game not written in java 19:53:38 someone should implement langton's ant in Burlesque 19:53:39 was this pretty much your idea, though 19:53:52 -!- augur has joined. 19:54:05 mroman: that sounds fun 19:55:10 i attack you with omega combinator 19:55:11 nooodle: well, it would have been nicer if it were not in a plane, but in three dimensions 19:55:24 I attack you with an elipitic curve? 19:55:27 *elliptic 19:55:38 elliottic curve 19:55:49 nooga, sounds dangerous 19:55:53 true 19:56:15 elliptic is elliott's alias 19:56:45 Can you have moduli in the functions? 19:56:59 also, can you do combined functions? 19:57:18 combined? 19:57:20 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:57:46 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:57:49 sorry, bad translation from dutch 19:57:50 um 19:58:11 like a function which is different depending on a number of conditions 19:58:13 eg. collatz 19:58:50 It would be nice if you could have a list of functions 19:59:02 then cast composition and iteration attacks 19:59:47 fyi i'm from dutch-speaking belgium 19:59:56 same 19:59:57 oh god we both are 20:00:03 -!- AnotherTest1 has changed nick to AnotherTest. 20:00:07 meh 20:00:17 once I went to Maastricht 20:00:30 it's near belguim i think 20:00:48 and they didn't speak english there, only french and dutch 20:00:51 beh 20:00:59 One of my friends is descended from dutch-speaking belgians, I think 20:01:10 it's right next to belgium 20:01:51 What I want to say is probably a function with a, in dutch, "meervoudig voorschrift" 20:02:07 yeah, we had girls riding bikes from belgium to a party in maas 20:02:08 oh, right 20:02:35 it doesn't have that because it'd be really easy to cheat 20:02:46 because you could finetune your function to avoid all obstacles easily 20:02:57 Yes, probably 20:03:03 the obstacles should be moving 20:03:09 well, I guess if you predicted their movement 20:03:10 google translates that as "piecewise" 20:03:19 The obstacles should be moving at random! 20:03:32 and the random number should be really random 20:03:40 no you should have to buy entropy 20:03:46 man. i live like 20 minutes away from antwerp; where are you from AnotherTest 20:04:28 antderp 20:04:30 :D 20:04:39 nooodl: Flemish Brabant 20:04:56 ant derp 20:05:12 red pant 20:05:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:05:51 trap ned 20:06:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:08:00 hm 20:08:18 !blsq "....\n..#.\n...." 20:08:19 "....\n..#.\n...." 20:08:38 !blsq "....\n..#.\n...."ln{1 2}d! 20:08:38 '# 20:09:14 !blsq Q 20:09:14 ERROR: (line 1, column 2): 20:09:16 !blsq q 20:09:16 ERROR: (line 1, column 2): 20:09:17 !blsq Qq 20:09:17 ERROR: Unknown command: (Qq)! 20:09:19 !blsq Q q 20:09:19 ERROR: (line 1, column 2): 20:09:29 oh 20:09:31 !blsq 5 5 + 20:09:32 ERROR: (line 1, column 6): 20:09:37 :( 20:09:38 I haven't updated the blsqbot yet. 20:09:43 !blsq 5 5 .+ 20:09:43 10 20:09:50 oh yeah teh dot 20:09:58 !blsq 5 5 .* 20:09:58 25 20:10:06 FreeFull: Wait a sec. 20:10:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:11:04 !blsq "Test 123 1234" 20:11:04 "Test 123 1234" 20:11:09 "hi" 20:11:14 What? 20:11:22 oh 20:11:23 omg 20:11:27 Someone send a privmsg 20:11:30 "i'm a robot beep boop" 20:11:48 "This isn't funny man." 20:11:49 mroman: suggestion: have blsqbot respond to queries differently 20:11:57 "Yes it is." 20:12:01 "#esoteric: anonymous mode" 20:12:12 "I'm a little teapot, short and stout." 20:12:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:12:26 Are you mad? 20:12:31 "o/` i'm an irc bot short and stout o/`" 20:12:36 !blsq { "hi" } 1 w! 20:12:36 ERROR: Burlesque: (w!) Invalid arguments! 20:12:40 oh wait 20:12:41 "blsqbot should do HTCPCP" 20:12:42 Ican do this 20:12:53 !blsq { "hi" } {1} w! 20:12:54 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 20:12:57 :( 20:13:12 !blsq "hi" "hi" 20:13:13 "hi" 20:13:16 HTCPCP? 20:13:18 !blsq { "hi" } {"hi" .=} w! 20:13:19 ERROR: Burlesque: (w!) Invalid! 20:13:20 "how to cook PCP"? 20:13:22 meh 20:13:31 Hypertext coffee pot control protocol 20:13:50 !blsq { 1 } {50 .<} w! 20:13:50 ERROR: Burlesque: (w!) Invalid! 20:13:56 kmc: drugs, am I right 20:13:59 drugs. 20:14:00 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt 20:14:39 I'm going to disney land 20:14:48 -!- blsqbot has quit (Quit: Exiting). 20:15:03 !blsq { "Why does this feel bad." 1 } {50 .<} w! 20:15:22 hm? 20:16:43 -!- blsqbot has joined. 20:16:56 mroman: is there a "negate" command? short for -1.* 20:17:05 !blsq { "Why does this feel bad. Yay!" 1 } {50 .<} w! 20:17:06 ERROR: Burlesque: (w!) Invalid! 20:17:15 ok why 20:17:23 !blsq { 1 } {50 .<} w! 20:17:24 ERROR: Burlesque: (w!) Invalid! 20:17:38 anyway 20:17:45 what is this burlesque toy? 20:17:51 nooodl: You mean not? 20:17:53 well, burlesque is an esolang 20:17:55 !blsq 0n! 20:17:56 1 20:17:57 so I guess blsqbot evaluates it 20:17:58 !blsq 1n! 20:17:59 0 20:18:00 nah 20:18:06 !blsq "I'm back"sh 20:18:07 I'm back 20:18:18 !blsq 5 -1.* 20:18:18 -5 20:18:42 could be "ng" or something, "Negate" 20:18:46 nooga: I evaluate all your burlesque expressions 20:18:59 nooodl: Oh. that negate 20:19:01 !blsq ps+ 20:19:01 ERROR: (line 1, column 4): 20:19:10 also what's "deepmap" 20:19:35 oh, nevermind 20:19:41 It maps over blocks 20:19:49 !blsq 0.5Tc 20:19:50 0.8775825618903728 20:19:56 !blsq {0.5 0.5 0.4}Tc 20:19:56 {0.8775825618903728 0.8775825618903728 0.9210609940028851} 20:21:00 AnotherTest: There is nothing on the stack @ {1}{50.<}w! 20:21:18 !blsq 1{}{50.<}w! 20:21:18 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 20:21:25 but it's an endless loop. 20:21:38 !blsq 1{2.*}{50.<}w! 20:21:39 64 20:21:45 !blsq 1{2.*}{100.<}w! 20:21:46 128 20:22:15 !blsq 1R@2?*{100.>}fe 20:22:16 102 20:22:32 !blsq 1R@2?^{100.>}fe 20:22:33 121 20:23:35 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:24:23 ^source 20:24:23 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 20:24:47 FreeFull: #Q pushes remaining code to the stack, #q pops code and replaces remaining code with it 20:24:57 #j pops code from stack and prepends it to remaining code 20:25:02 #J dose the same but appends 20:25:11 !blsq #Q1 2 3#j 20:25:12 3 20:25:16 !blsq #Q1 2 3#j#s 20:25:17 {3 2 1 {1 2 3 #j #s}} 20:25:24 (#s pushes the stack to the stack) 20:25:47 !blsq #Q1 2 3#j.+#s 20:25:48 {5 1 {1 2 3 #j .+ #s}} 20:26:14 !blsq #Q#q 20:26:15 No output! 20:26:22 !blsq #Q#q#Q 20:26:23 {} 20:26:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:26:29 !blsq #Q#q#Q#q#q 20:26:30 No output! 20:26:42 fizzie, ping 20:26:42 !blsq #Q"Hello, World"sh 20:26:43 Hello, World 20:26:47 !blsq #Q"Hello, World"sh#s 20:26:48 {Hello, World {"Hello, World" sh #s}} 20:27:04 !blsq #Q #q 20:27:04 No output! 20:27:15 @tell fizzie fizzie whatever happened to jitfunge? 20:27:15 Consider it noted. 20:27:24 err why did I write the nick twice? 20:27:27 oh never mind 20:28:04 FreeFull: I'm not sure what one can achieve with this. 20:28:58 !blsq #Q#q#s 20:28:58 {} 20:29:07 mroman: There should be a way to stop #Q, so it doesn't change any code afterwards 20:29:22 "stop"? 20:29:40 So everything from #Q to #E gets pushed onto the stack 20:29:49 And then the rest of the code gets executed normally 20:30:03 well 20:30:06 you can do that 20:30:13 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 20:30:14 !blsq #Q5 5 .+ 20:30:14 10 20:30:16 !blsq #Q5 5 .+#s 20:30:17 {10 {5 5 .+ #s}} 20:30:29 burlesque is written in haskell, right? 20:30:35 !blsq #Q5 5 .+\/5.+#s 20:30:35 {{5 5 .+ \/ 5} 10} 20:30:41 !blsq #Q5 5 .+\/3.+#s 20:30:42 {{5 5 .+} 10} 20:30:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:30:57 ^- you can remove elements from the pushed code 20:31:11 nooodl_: Right. 20:31:39 hmm. i was interested to see how you handled the lazy lists 20:31:42 but in haskell it's trivial 20:31:55 I get lazyness for free ;) 20:32:06 !blsq #Q5 5 .+\/3.+e!#s 20:32:07 {10 10} 20:32:25 !blsq #Q5 5 .+\/3.+e!.+#s 20:32:26 {20} 20:32:34 !blsq #Q5 5 .+\/3.+e!.+ 20:32:34 20 20:34:00 #Q does not stop code from being executed. 20:34:44 nooodl_: It wouldn't be just infinite lists. 20:35:11 I'd have to implement general lazyness. 20:35:16 There are no available nodes on X-Bit BBS for many hours already. 20:35:36 i don't even know how haskell does it 20:35:40 it's magic 20:36:36 heap values are thunks, it's not that hard 20:37:32 it might be useful to play with laziness in a strict language 20:37:47 you can defer computation by wrapping it in a zero-argument lambda 20:37:52 It'd be a learning exercise 20:37:55 and then force it later just by applying that function 20:37:56 although 20:38:00 that's not actually lazy evaluation 20:38:03 nope 20:38:06 it has the same semantics (non-strict semantics) 20:38:09 but much worse performance 20:38:36 I actually was playing with the thought of creating a lazy assembler like machine 20:38:38 under lazy evaluation you mutate that thunk so that the next time it's evaluated, the result is re-used 20:38:44 *language 20:39:09 just as an exercise to see how it could be done 20:39:32 kmc: you can do that pretty easily with thunks too, though, it's just a few more lines to think about. 20:40:48 mroman: how would that work? 20:41:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:42:06 nooodl_: read ezyang's stuff 20:42:20 http://blog.ezyang.com/2011/04/the-haskell-heap/ 20:42:29 + the follow-up posts it links 20:42:33 it has pretty pictures 20:42:43 elliott i have a confession 20:42:50 we all do 20:42:53 a matrix isn't enough to define an analytic function uniquely 20:42:54 :( 20:42:55 -!- AnotherTest1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:42:57 Bike, are you actually a bicycle? 20:43:05 dude it says "bike" are you blind 20:43:29 Bike: Read/Writes to register/memory is not done immediately 20:43:50 Bike: isn't that a bit obvious 20:44:16 yes but i was still thinking about it 20:44:24 is there an algorithm for compressing joust programs optimally? 20:44:56 compressing howso 20:45:06 It's probably useless but ... 20:45:09 if you mean to ()* ()% then yeah 20:45:17 expanding those provably halts 20:45:24 so you can just brute-force up to the length of the program 20:45:27 elliott: this is very cute 20:46:41 i wonder where Fiora went 20:46:52 she got pissed after a talk about racism here 20:47:42 yeah 20:47:44 now i feel bad 20:47:46 was that the awful one that i logread 20:47:55 i wasn't involved in the discussion but I mean i feel bad generally 20:48:14 she was cool, I miss the occasional cpu architecture babble 20:48:42 yeah :( 20:48:57 I missed that discussion too 20:49:44 Have you ever used the circle algorithm from HAKMEM? 20:49:51 discussion is a bit of an overly charitable word for it 20:50:31 zzo38: no 20:50:43 elliott: is it the sort of thing that people should get banned over? 20:50:44 yes I have 20:50:53 driving useful people from the channel is bad :( 20:51:01 ais523: depends what your threshold for banning is 20:51:24 probably not something you would ban over from what i know of your op policy 20:51:25 zzo38: it gave me a kinda elipse thing 20:51:35 elliott: I guess one way to put it is, if the situation between two people has got bad enough that they refuse to be in the channel simultaneously 20:51:38 then you ban whichever one is less useful 20:51:39 probably something I would ban for but then I'd ban everyone who looks at me wrong 20:51:58 btw you should op me 20:52:00 so I can do that 20:52:09 * nortti looks at elliott wrong 20:52:24 elliott: =_= 20:52:35 are you trying to get banned 20:52:38 elliott: the problem is you're a bit too impulsive to make a good op, you'd make good decisions most of the time but harm the channel every now and then 20:52:57 ais523: hey I've wanted to ban like three idiots on the esolang wiki and restrained myself!! 20:53:10 elliott: for what? making bad BF derivatives? 20:53:11 except for NSQX. but it turns out banning him doesn't actually work anyway 20:53:15 Bike: if you still talk to her, maybe you can tell her that people here wish she would come back 20:53:18 i mean if you want to 20:53:30 kmc: ok. 20:53:48 what kmc said 20:53:54 kmc: in my case, its more that I'm upset that she was driven away for no good reason 20:54:09 she doesn't have to come back if she doesn't want to, but whatever drove her away needs fixing 20:54:19 or him, I guess 20:54:22 female name, but… 20:54:24 What happened to tiffany and Madam_Konada or whatever her name was 20:54:46 what was this notorious racism discussion? 20:55:13 it wasn't really notorious 20:55:19 yeah, and how come none of the channel regulars were there? 20:55:26 ais523: sure 20:55:28 makes sense 20:55:29 i just have a really good logreading memory 20:55:42 like, the most plausible reason for "none of the channel regulars were involved" is "it was in a different channel", regardless of which channel you're talking about 20:55:45 unless it has no regulars 20:55:59 well bike and fiora were involved :P 20:56:15 anyway it's probably not worth doing anything about N weeks later 20:56:21 bike isn't the first person I'd think of when asked to list #esoteric regulars 20:56:34 esoteric irregulars 20:56:37 bike has been here like months now! 20:56:43 can you believe taneb's been here since... 20:56:44 `pastelogs taneb 20:56:48 ah the rlist 20:56:52 yeah, taneb's in my head as a regular 20:56:52 August 2011, I think 20:56:57 actually, who are consisdered regulars and who are not? 20:56:57 the discussion is here if anyone cares http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2013-01-27.txt 20:57:07 all i do is sit around not knowing haskell 20:57:08 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12059 20:57:10 p. irregular imo 20:57:14 elliott: which of us became a #esoteric regular earlier? was it me? 20:57:17 I know Vorpal came later 20:57:20 * impomatic is irregular :-) 20:57:24 Crikey, 2010!? 20:57:26 2010-09-06.txt:20:39:56: -!- Taneb has joined #esoteric. 20:57:30 you joined in 2010 20:57:32 and then left 20:57:33 when did i join 20:57:35 until 2011 20:57:43 it was probably like 2 days ago 20:57:45 ais523, I joined a few months before I really began to talk much though 20:57:51 iirc I joined in 2006 20:57:54 (when I was 10!) 20:57:57 but then disappeared until 2007 20:58:01 Hmmm... when did I join? 20:58:01 without saying anything 20:58:03 I'm not sure if the first Taneb is actually me 20:58:07 anyway the thing is that fiora is pretty much on high alert for various bad-isms, especially on freenode, land of the grognards 20:58:07 iirc there were too many people on the user list and I got scared :( 20:58:09 impomatic: later, definitely, I'm just not sure how much later 20:58:11 how did you know about esoteric programming languages at age 10 20:58:23 nooodl_: i spen[dt] a lot of time on the internet 20:58:25 what's a grognards, well i guess i can tell from context 20:58:26 Bike: yeah, a lot of people dislike bad-isms 20:58:35 imo badness is actually good 20:58:41 - controversial opinion 20:58:49 Bike, what is a bad-ism? 20:58:54 I don't remember ever asking cpressey about Hackiki 20:58:55 kmc: i originally heard it as slang for somebody who gets into long involved arguments about which edition of D&D is best 20:59:00 Vorpal: it's when your aim gets hecked 20:59:01 Vorpal: in this case racism 20:59:04 i don't totally understand what in that discussion made it worth leaving the channel forever but, i have done the same thing in similar contexts 20:59:07 Where's the discussion? 20:59:10 Bike, I see 20:59:15 There's no discussion. She just left 20:59:19 I remember the second incident on that log 20:59:26 are we going to restart the discussion by proxy of discussing it for an hour 20:59:29 because that seems unproductive 20:59:50 Bike, also who is fiora? 20:59:54 a good discussion 21:00:02 Vorpal: someone i know from elsewhere. does a lot of x86 hacking. 21:00:10 okay 21:00:29 Taneb: I like how you were mentioned before you even joined 21:00:39 she was here for a few... days? weeks? after reading kmc's article about injecting code into a packet filter JIT 21:00:41 Thanks, oerjan 21:00:50 she was here over a month I think? 21:00:53 it felt like a while anyway 21:01:00 i am timeless 21:01:09 it was a while 21:01:13 well you are a bicycle 21:01:14 they don't really age 21:01:20 They do tyre 21:01:30 ais523: imo Taneb needs kicking for that 21:01:40 elliott: what, bad puns? 21:01:42 ais523, I agree 21:01:46 ais523: oerjan has a patent 21:01:47 then we'd have to get rid of oerjan too 21:01:52 see he even agrees 21:01:56 it's the best thing for the channel 21:02:14 Bike: btw you should learn haskell 21:02:16 it'd be like coming of age 21:02:19 imo agda 21:02:30 Anyway, I seriously do not remember the first time I appeared in those logs 21:02:40 I seem to remember asking that much later? 21:03:00 maybe i should just implement barebones haskell 98 in a language i'm used to like a sensible person 21:03:04 or is there a standard past 98 21:03:08 was Taneb the first name you used here? istr you changed name a million times before becoming taneb 21:03:09 2010 21:03:11 (but maybe it was actually after) 21:03:14 haskell of the future 21:03:16 not very different 21:03:16 taneb was the first 21:03:21 it's "retro" now 21:03:26 they said they were going to do one spec per year 21:03:26 did they like kill that n+k pattern thing 21:03:28 It went Taneb -> Ngevd -> atriq -> Taneb 21:03:32 or whatever it was people yelled about 21:03:34 but so far 2010 is the latest 21:03:35 With some switching back and forth 21:03:38 starting out in a new community by lurking is common 21:03:38 Bike: standard haskell is still kind of "a pain" to implement 21:03:42 and the safest method, really 21:03:49 elliott: so i would assume 21:03:50 Bike: there's a paper "Typing Haskell in Haskell" 21:03:53 awesome 21:03:57 ais523, I'm crap at lurking 21:03:57 it's good 21:04:02 the only other method that even has a moderately good success rate is starting by contributing 21:04:13 i read a paper once about how you couldn't embed system fi n itself, or something 21:04:16 if you read that and the original STG machine paper and "How to make a fast curry" 21:04:22 then i think you can implement haskell pretty well 21:04:35 http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2009-November/021750.html ← differences between H98 and H10 21:04:45 Bike: n+k patterns are gone yes 21:04:52 fuckin' knew it 21:04:59 kmc: well you can interpret haskell much more easily 21:05:07 > let n+1 = 3 in n 21:05:07 or even compile it dumbly 21:05:09 n 21:05:11 yeah but interpreters are boring 21:05:13 with just dead simple thunking 21:05:17 buh? 21:05:24 thats not an n+k pattern 21:05:30 thats a redefinition of (+) 21:05:34 nice 21:05:36 you're rusty kmc!!!!! 21:05:39 or rather a shadowing 21:05:39 > let f (n+1) = n in f 3 21:05:42 :1:8: Parse error in pattern: n + 1 21:05:47 awwwww snap 21:05:54 imo implementing haskell is a really bad way to learn it because you'll get confused by operational details 21:06:00 ) a.{~97+5?5 21:06:00 nooodl_: aedbc 21:06:03 details like what 21:06:05 since you need to think at a much lower level (and specify much more) than you need to effectively code in haskell 21:06:11 ) a.{~97+5?26 21:06:11 well yeah 21:06:11 nooodl_: oghyx 21:06:29 "that's my taneb name generator" 21:06:33 Bike: well the whole evaluation strategy is irrelevant when reasoning about haskell normally and thinking in low-level terms is a common impediment to people learning haskell 21:06:36 esp. as it relates to non-strictness 21:06:47 nooodl_: Is that gs2? 21:06:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:06:49 i'm already reasonably familiar with laziness, i think 21:06:52 that's J 21:06:59 ah. Ic. 21:07:16 Bike: non-strictness and laziness are not the same thing :) 21:07:32 !blsq 1'a'zr\0 25rn5.+sish 21:07:32 ERROR: Burlesque: (si) Invalid arguments! 21:07:34 sigh 21:07:37 what's the difference then 21:07:37 meh :( 21:07:43 (indeed, equating the two -- though generally harmless -- is a common example of operational details getting mixed up in haskell) 21:07:55 !blsq 1'a'zr\0 0 25rn5.+sish 21:07:56 dbham 21:07:59 elliott: I still try to think about the order of program flow, if not evaluation order 21:08:04 Hang on 21:08:04 Bike: non-strictness simply means you have functions f for which f _|_ is not _|_, it is a property solely about the denotational semantics 21:08:09 as in, a $ b c means "evaluate b c, then run a on the result" 21:08:11 Hang on hang on hang on 21:08:15 Bike: laziness is the implementation of non-strictness with call-by-need 21:08:16 as a result I end up having to try to read Haskell programs right to left 21:08:16 `pastelog olsner 21:08:20 which gives you sharing 21:08:23 elliott: oh, that's sensible. 21:08:25 but e.g. call-by-name is also non-strict 21:08:25 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13540 21:08:37 [2] [6] [five] [make-array] [rand] [lowercases] [index] 21:08:40 that's 9 bytes of GS2 21:08:44 This isn't the first time I've been told that I've interacted with something before I can remember having interacted with them 21:08:52 :t ($|) 21:08:56 (a -> b) -> Strategy a -> a -> b 21:09:06 ais523: You can always use flip (.) 21:09:10 it's defined somewhere 21:09:13 :t (|) 21:09:14 does [five] even exist :| 21:09:15 parse error on input `|' 21:09:17 21:08:09 as in, a $ b c means "evaluate b c, then run a on the result" 21:09:25 ais523: the fact that that's inaccurate is a good argument against your reasoning process :) 21:09:46 elliott: what it means in terms of program flow order 21:09:49 > let ($|) = flip (.) in "abc" $| reverse $| take 2 21:09:51 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' 21:09:51 Haskell doesn't evaluate in that sequence 21:09:51 with actual type... 21:09:56 but that's what the result means 21:10:05 evaluation order is irrelevant, program flow order sort-of isn't 21:10:06 hm 21:10:15 because it's hard to understand the program otherwise 21:10:15 ais523: well, if (b c) is (error "foo"), then evaluating it throws an exception 21:10:23 but evaluating (const () $ b c) doesn't 21:10:27 isn't that like (?) 21:10:28 :t (?) 21:10:29 Not in scope: `?' 21:10:39 elliott: I don't think of evaluating it as throwing an exception in Haskell 21:10:50 just like ??? doesn't throw an exception in Perl 6 21:10:55 > let (?) = flip ($) in "abc" ? reverse ? take 2 21:10:57 "cb" 21:11:05 if you define evaluation to do nothing, then I agree your reading is correct 21:11:11 yeah 21:11:14 it's inaccurate even if (b c) isn't _|_ 21:11:18 ah yeah. 21:11:21 did anything ever happen to haskell2011? 21:11:22 It's flip ($) not flip (.) 21:11:25 it is _not_ evaluated to WHNF until a cases on its result 21:11:37 haskell 2002, electric boogaloo 21:11:42 elliott: I think I mentally elide the laziness 21:11:45 as in, apply it at a different level 21:12:04 hmm… I work with call-by-name a lot 21:12:17 elliott: if it's remotely relevant i already know the case-is-evaluation thing from a spjones paper 21:12:37 !blsq 1R@#q 21:12:38 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 21:13:04 by some freak coincidence taneb is elliott's next door neighbor 21:13:10 oerjan, a prophet 21:13:17 Taneb: did you check? 21:13:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0/20130215130331]). 21:13:40 ais523, I'm between old Mr Snowdon and the Bradshaws 21:13:43 hey has anyone here tried http://scratch.mit.edu/ 21:13:44 No room for the Hirds 21:13:46 it's "an esolang" 21:13:52 nooodl_: I've heard of it 21:13:54 nooodl_, yes, and it really isn't 21:14:09 Actually 21:14:44 * Bike looks through extensions 21:14:44 Hmm 21:14:48 what's Language.Python do? 21:15:20 Bike: extensions? 21:15:30 Stuff added in 2010. 21:15:36 (in this case, dots in module names) 21:16:12 that was actually added in 2002 21:16:14 but used much earlier 21:16:20 yes, so I see. 21:16:30 I don't know what you mean by Language.Python though, Haskell 2010 doesn't specify any such module :P 21:16:48 It's in the wiki's article on hierarchical names as an example 21:17:10 on hackage or whatever 21:17:17 oh sure 21:17:25 well 21:17:28 argh 21:17:31 well http://hackage.haskell.org/package/language-python 21:17:44 I see. 21:18:07 `hth' 21:18:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hth': not found 21:18:12 haha 21:18:57 nooodl_: Are you going to implement langtons ant now? 21:19:00 or should I do it tomorrow. 21:19:06 oh right 21:19:08 i was going to do that! 21:19:11 it sounds fun 21:19:16 Ok. 21:19:24 cool. 21:19:37 If you have questions just ask me :) 21:19:56 You can put it on rosettacode now. 21:20:08 I was so evil to add Burlesque there to troll everybody with it. 21:20:22 my favorite part of rosetta code is the befunge examples 21:20:22 eh 21:20:23 not now 21:20:24 *then 21:20:30 :) 21:20:45 my sometimes brain thing mixes up 21:21:37 I'm probably going to have a look at conways game of life in burlesque tomorrow. 21:21:41 If I have some time to waste. 21:22:07 iirc, the Haskell version of the Langton's ant was written by me, and really sucks 21:22:20 don't be so mean to yoself :( 21:22:27 yeah. 21:22:32 We all write sucky code for rosettacode. 21:22:53 I don't want to give away free codegolf solutions anyway :) 21:23:44 be mean to yourself 21:23:46 speaking of 21:23:52 including Bike 21:23:53 i made a scratch program for rosetta code 21:24:04 If I'm mean to you, will you become myself? 21:24:12 http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set#Scratch 21:24:23 there's no output example :( rip 21:24:36 nice though 21:24:39 Hang on 21:24:49 I once wrote a Mandelbrot set in Scratch 21:25:13 other good parts of rosettacode include: not recognizing some of the languages 21:25:16 cool 21:25:16 like "seed7" 21:25:18 is that a graphical programming language? 21:25:21 it is 21:25:25 wow that looks crazy 21:25:30 "Based on the BASIC Version. Due to the TI-83's lack of power, it takes around 2 hours to complete at 16 iterations." also. 21:25:33 how versatile is it though? 21:25:36 Vorpal: it's for pedagogy iirc 21:25:44 ah 21:25:44 it's for kids. so not versatile at all 21:25:46 also slow 21:25:46 "The fact that you can create an image of the Mandelbrot Set with XSLT is sometimes under-appreciated." 21:25:56 nooodl_, Logo isn't that limited iirc 21:26:06 hmm yeah 21:26:09 nooodl_, so it doesn't need to be bad just because it is for kids 21:26:21 nooodl_, but it probably needs to be bad since it is graphic :P 21:26:23 could be worse, it could be alice 21:26:33 hey, there are cool graphical programming languages 21:26:46 oh man. alice is used at my school to teach "programming" 21:26:53 TIL that Python comes with a turtle graphics module 21:26:58 i didn't ever use it though; not all classes got those lessons 21:27:02 http://docs.python.org/2/library/turtle.html 21:27:07 kmc: i used turtle in my freshman classes! 21:27:07 nooodl_, what is "alice"? 21:27:22 this http://www.alice.org/index.php 21:27:32 it's less than good 21:27:38 ah 21:27:56 heh, the CVS article on wikipedia argues that non-atomic commits are mitigated by doing all work on branches and "the final merge is atomic, and performed in the data center by QA." 21:28:02 also it references Alice in Wonderland. While that is a good book, there are way too many references to that already 21:28:10 I say, with a nick referencing it... 21:28:18 and the next point claims slow branching is fine because "CVS assumes that the majority of work takes place on the trunk, and that branches should generally be short-lived or historical." 21:28:29 actually referencing Alice Through the Looking Glass, but whatever 21:28:57 olsner, lol what 21:29:20 is someone trying to defend CVS? 21:29:24 *why* 21:29:58 mroman: i'm installing burlesque locally atm 21:30:09 olsner: in the data centre???? 21:30:34 21:25:46 "The fact that you can create an image of the Mandelbrot Set with XSLT is sometimes under-appreciated." 21:30:41 also why would QA do merging at all 21:30:47 Bike: https://github.com/isomorphism/esoteric-fractals/blob/master/Make/Makefile 21:30:57 Vorpal: to work aroudn a broken version control system? 21:31:06 olsner, I guess...... 21:31:08 Vorpal: the vorpal sword shows up in Alice? 21:31:22 Bike, in the Jabberwocky poem yes 21:31:27 that is the source of it 21:31:30 elliott: at first i was like "wait, what language is this for" and then i was like "oh" 21:31:40 Vorpal: I thought Jabberwocky was a separate thing, I mean. 21:32:01 Bike, you never read the books then I guess? 21:32:03 I like how it defines shittons and then proceeds to not use it ever again 21:32:05 you really should 21:32:15 the final merge should be performed by a licensed & bonded mergemonger with a team of strong oxen 21:32:16 elliott, that is gnu make isn't it? 21:32:32 yes 21:32:34 Vorpal: i haven't read any carroll, no 21:32:49 Bike, it is a classic, of course 21:32:54 both of the Alice books 21:32:58 'course 21:32:59 Bike, Jabberwocky is a poem-within-a-book of Alice Through the Looking Glass 21:33:11 Hunting of the Snark is separate 21:33:14 i second the carroll recommendation (this second is 50x better than the first because Vorpal was the first) 21:33:14 Ah. 21:33:17 Bike, also they are references all over popular culture 21:33:21 i've only read like four books explicitly based on Alice, yes 21:33:31 also read "What the Tortoise Said to Achilles". 21:33:35 elliott, oh come on, stop hating already 21:33:38 that one i may have read already. 21:33:42 Alice is like Flatland but backwards 21:34:01 Taneb, how do you mean 21:34:16 Flatland is about mathematics, but with references to Victorian culture 21:34:27 Alice is about Victorian culture, but with references to mathematics 21:34:29 well you should look it up and see if you have. 21:34:34 and then if you haven't, you can read it 21:34:47 Taneb, wasn't that also a satire over the state of the church at the time or something? (I have to admit I haven't read the book) 21:35:00 Who knows 21:35:40 yep i've read it. 21:35:44 Didn't know it was originally in Mind. 21:35:59 much less dry than On Denoting, that's for sure 21:36:20 elliott, anyway, the last example of "quoting Alice just cause'" I saw was some shoehorned in quotes on some loading screens after certain missions in Far Cry 3 21:36:26 mroman: is there an easy way to make "matrices"? like "3 2 something" -> {{0 0 0} {0 0 0}} 21:36:27 ha 21:36:29 didn't even fit all that well 21:36:40 Bike: that one is also to blame for Hofstadter, I think 21:36:50 yeah hofstadter's definitely where i read it 21:37:35 elliott, GEB? 21:37:49 should I (try to) read GEB? 21:37:53 yeah 21:37:58 really? 21:38:01 are we talking about carroll 21:38:06 my favourite thing about carroll 21:38:08 don't "try to", it's not like it's super technical 21:38:10 Vorpal: probably not 21:38:15 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:38:15 well 21:38:17 elliott, oh? 21:38:19 I refer you to http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Chris%20Pressey#Esoteric_Reading_List.21 21:38:25 and then leave you to make your own decisions 21:38:27 is that when somebody told him about hyperbolic geometry his response was like "well that's just stupid" 21:38:42 Phantom_Hoover: continuing in a long line of mathematicians, eh 21:38:45 Phantom_Hoover: he had no idea how right he was 21:38:56 "The book is riddled with errors, but has a great attitude." 21:38:57 elliott, hm 21:39:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:39:11 Phantom_Hoover, :D 21:39:20 elliott: Oh conflating it with Wolfram is a bit harsh. 21:39:26 I actually like hyperbolic geometry, it is cool and weird 21:39:39 Bike: cprsesey never conflates 21:39:41 *cpressey 21:39:45 only relates 21:39:53 anyway GEB is much better than wolfram of course 21:40:07 it is an interesting book, I won't say it has no values, but Hofstadter is way too sure of himself 21:40:07 "Don't worry if you don't know topology -- it's not the topology that makes this a worthwhile read, it's the counterexamples." 21:40:13 oh cpressey 21:40:14 I mean, I think hofstadter is pretty wrong about how minds work, but i still enjoyed reading it 21:40:22 and borders on quackery when he starts talking about consciousness I think 21:40:41 my favourite thing about hofstadter is that he has a harem of beautiful french women 21:40:47 i have "Fluid Analogies" 21:40:50 also you have to live through a few hundred pages of him going through formal proofs step by step 21:40:52 i don't know that he makes any claims falsifiable enough to be called "quackery" 21:40:59 i gave up reading it because I was like, no, that's not gonna work bro 21:41:00 Phantom_Hoover, seriously? 21:41:10 kmc unfalsifiable claims are still quackery... 21:41:14 kmc: some would argue every unfalsifiable claim constitutes quackery 21:41:18 (though I don't quite agree) 21:41:20 shrug 21:41:41 Vorpal, well iirc the source wasn't very reliable but it's far too amusing to be false 21:41:41 anyway maybe GEB is "one of those books everyone should read" and it influenced my thinking 21:41:45 but I can't really endorse it 21:41:45 mostly it's just a bunch of cute sideways punny analogies and then a kind of incoherent "what if brains are that?" 21:41:54 haha yes 21:41:56 hah 21:42:02 i have to read that book... 21:42:15 i think The Mind's I was probably better for consciousness 21:42:16 i agree that people (myself included) tend to see it as a coherent worldview and only years later realize how handwavey it is 21:42:20 possibly it is worth reading just for the wit 21:42:25 helping: it has an actual philosopher editing 21:42:36 GEB also has a great intro to metamathematics though 21:42:41 which is not handwavy in the least 21:43:02 it presents incompleteness and such in a way that's accessible and yet far more precise than any other 'popular' presentation 21:43:53 i probably learned predicate logic from GEB 21:44:09 Hofstadter's "A Person Paper on Purity in Language" (http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html) was the thing that first made me realise that ingrained sexism existed (or perhaps rather: is a thing that could even be conceived of existed), I think 21:44:23 oh yeah that was good too 21:44:25 well, ingrained prejudice in general 21:44:43 it's like "oh" 21:45:28 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 21:46:01 I always took the ending of geb as noncannon 21:46:45 because it is immediately preceded by the idea of padding the end of a book so you don't know when it really ends 21:47:03 mroman: is there a way to run a block n times? 21:48:06 doesthiswork, couldn't that just be a trick to make you believe it wasn't canon? 21:48:24 "cnaon" 21:48:28 *canon 21:48:29 doesthiswork, also non-cannon with two n would be something that is not a piece of artillery 21:48:30 is there geb fanfiction 21:48:57 oh E! 21:49:11 elliott, I invoke rule 34 on it 21:49:17 it would be pretty great to see someone failing to write a crab canon 21:49:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:49:22 oh no, what have I done? 21:49:32 I googled "GEB fanfiction" and got HPMOR, fuck yes 21:49:41 haha 21:49:49 what's HPMOR? 21:50:03 Gods Eater Burst FanFiction Archive | FanFiction 21:50:04 yudkowsky's harry potter fanfic 21:50:05 no google 21:50:08 i hear it is bad 21:50:23 I can not stand the first chapter 21:50:30 http://ffcdn2012.fictionpressllc.netdna-cdn.com/imageu/1413586/150/ holy shit 21:50:38 i heard about that thing but i just don't understand what it is 21:50:47 Phantom_Hoover: I'm reminded of TV Tropes' guide on how to tell which side of a harry potter fanfic is the protagonist 21:50:54 "Occupation: International Baccalaureate student (Majors: Higher Mathematics, Design Technology, Music; Minors: Economics, English, Japanese) 21:50:58 Bike: it has a tv tropes article 21:50:58 I hit the jackpot here 21:51:02 close enough? 21:51:04 Bike, is that tolkien?? 21:51:04 Phantom_Hoover: I'm reminded of TV Tropes' guide on how to tell which side of a harry potter fanfic is the protagonist <-- oh? 21:51:08 what does it entail 21:51:09 Phantom_Hoover: orwell, of course 21:51:15 502 Bad Gateway on bike's link :( 21:51:19 oh 21:51:20 right 21:51:21 http://ffcdn2012.fictionpressllc.netdna-cdn.com/imageu/1413586/150/ holy shit <-- 502 Bad Gateway? 21:51:22 let me look it up so other people don't have to visit TV Tropes 21:51:24 "Author has written 9 stories for Transformers/Beast Wars." 21:51:33 Bike: i didn't realise orwell's real name was The E. Language 21:51:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:51:44 i support a guy with a name that terrible too 21:51:47 imagine how much he must get teased about it 21:51:48 little known fact 21:51:54 Bike, can you post a working version of that link? 21:52:01 i remember looking up 'scorpius' and being royally pissed off that like a quarter of the results were harry potter fanfics 21:52:05 Phantom_Hoover: did you really think that was tolkien 21:52:05 apparently i cannot, vorpal 21:52:11 http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1413586/Seien24 here you go though 21:52:12 elliott, im bad face 21:52:14 Bike, neither me nor nooodl_ got it to work 21:52:19 also how do you pronounce tolkien 21:52:21 "I'm a Libertarian and an atheist. I detest needing to eat or sleep." 21:52:30 i say tolky-en to remind myself it's not "tolkein" 21:52:32 elliott: tokin' 21:52:33 bleh, I'm not sure offhand what page it's on 21:52:43 Dislikes: Most people, 21:52:46 ugh... 21:52:50 bike: thumbs up 21:52:51 nooodl_: nice 21:52:53 ais523: you'll have to read all of them anyway, so it doesn't really matter where you start 21:52:58 i remember when i would have written a statement like that 21:53:01 that reminds me of one of my favorite internet games 21:53:02 Favourite Shakespeare play: 21:53:04 :||||||| 21:53:06 Bike, sounds like Sgeo except a dickhead 21:53:08 haha 21:53:11 IN A CATEGORY OF ITS OWN 21:53:12 going to fanfiction.net and looking at the crossover section for thousands-year-old literature 21:53:17 elliott, I pronounce Tolkien in Sindarin of course 21:53:24 "Dislikes: [...] incompetence" 21:53:33 man I just love incompetence though 21:53:38 somebody in this world has thought that Powerpuff Girls/Aenid slash fanfiction was a good idea 21:53:39 gimme some of that incompetence and I'll have my saturday night 21:53:40 Bike, is there gilgamesh fanfic 21:53:44 there must be gilgamesh fanfic 21:53:51 Bike: you know I can't quite disagree 21:53:53 also it's aeneiad you cock 21:53:58 elliott: what about some illiteracy 21:54:02 Æneiad 21:54:07 Phantom_Hoover: lol, latin 21:54:19 relatedly: "Dido and Anaeas" 21:54:20 it's apparently aeneid 21:54:29 The Odyssey: Pokemon Ranger style! by XxDragonstarxX reviews 21:54:29 Will Spenser ever reach Ithica in time to stop Billy and his army of suitors from marrying his wife Natumi?What has he gone through?At which losses? 21:54:32 this was a good idea Bike 21:54:35 it's "aeneis" if you're Good 21:54:37 Phantom_Hoover, gilgamesh fanfic? Stop hurting my brain :/ 21:54:37 -!- monqy has joined. 21:54:43 http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6365901/1/The-Scibe-Of-Gilgamesh 21:54:47 oh god 21:54:48 Odysseus and the Battle of Hogwarts by asymmetricalpasta03 21:54:48 This was an assignment for our Odessey unit in 9th grade. It is horrible. I expect this to get very little in the way of views and taken down. I wasn't impressed with it then, and am not now. But hey, it might be great literature for somebody. Enjoy. Or don't. Oh, one more thing. It's set in Book 6: Consider this your spoiler warning. 21:54:52 that's not fanfic!!! 21:55:03 "the Priestess of Ereshkigal, Gwenevere Eveili" 21:55:04 i want, like, gilgamesh/enkidu slash 21:55:09 elliott: i hope you understand how this works 21:55:10 Bike 21:55:12 Phantom_Hoover: isn't that the original 21:55:14 you have made me bleed 21:55:15 hey monqy we're looking at bad fanfiction 21:55:22 im going to 21:55:26 look for crossover fanfics 21:55:26 is this because of sgeo 21:55:27 monqy: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 21:55:32 between literary famous things and other things 21:55:36 monqy, what? no 21:55:42 like aeneid + harry potter or something? 21:55:45 that's a horrible thing to say 21:56:16 oerjan, a prophet <- AUM 21:56:34 "Slender Man and Hetalia crossover ONESHOT! Warnings: a little FrUk, America x France, swearing, etc..." 21:56:36 ??? AUM 21:56:37 it's a good game 21:56:59 what is this hetalia thing 21:57:01 Wow, two things I used to be in to then I got bored then they got really popular 21:57:08 Phantom_Hoover, was just about to ask the same 21:57:10 Phantom_Hoover, it's like Scandinavia and the World but different 21:57:28 http://www.fanfiction.net/crossovers/Minecraft/7691/ Yeah, I'm done after this. 21:57:28 ..oh! now I get it the "this will blow you mind" comments are sarcasm 21:57:29 Taneb, what is "Scandinavia and the World"? 21:57:30 is it cloyingly japanese 21:57:43 Phantom_Hoover, depends on the definition of "cloyingly" 21:57:46 iirc it's an anime where a bunch of countries are represented as characters and have fun times together 21:57:47 http://www.fanfiction.net/Bible-and-Minecraft-Crossovers/700/7691/ 21:57:51 Phantom_Hoover: it's anthropomorphised world war ii 21:57:53 Vorpal, something a bit like Hetalia 21:57:54 BIBLE-MINECRAFT 21:57:58 no word yet on why anyone thought this was a good idea 21:58:02 Taneb, ... great ... 21:58:14 elliott, do they actually touch on, like, the whole holocaust thing 21:58:15 http://www.fanfiction.net/Back-to-the-Future-and-Great-Expectations-Crossovers/176/4075/ 21:58:18 good 21:58:19 very good 21:58:21 good god 21:58:28 that could possibly work 21:58:30 Bike: how are there *25* Minecraft+My Little Pony fanfictions 21:58:37 i should get in on this fanfictions thing 21:58:40 elliott: you understand now 21:58:59 elliott, how is there any fan fiction for minecraft... 21:59:00 what 21:59:03 http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8762946/1/Cave-Minecraft 21:59:06 cave story + minecraft crossover poem 21:59:12 monqy: go to http://www.fanfiction.net/ and click a "crossover" link 21:59:16 then click two things 21:59:21 what is there to base minecraft fan fiction on? 21:59:22 the twist ending is that it's actually terraria + minecraft crossover poem 21:59:26 please click that link 21:59:27 nooodl_: ye i kno 21:59:33 elliott: oops 21:59:33 minecraft has literally no lore or story 21:59:34 please 21:59:36 im twisted 21:59:37 including you monqy 21:59:38 hi 21:59:42 elliott: already done 21:59:56 there's so much ridiculously bad things on this site 22:00:02 i don't know which part of it is true 22:00:03 `http://www.fanfiction.net/r/8762946/ reviews 22:00:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/http://www.fanfiction.net/r/8762946/: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/http://www.fanfiction.net/r/8762946/: cannot execute: No such file or directory 22:00:07 oops 22:00:35 nicholas says it like it is 22:00:45 Anime/Manga Crossovers Naruto (15,429) 22:00:57 there is a harry potter fan fiction that is literally just the books typed in with a couple mentions of harry haveing a sister. 22:01:02 Hetalia - Axis Powers (2,308) 22:01:06 this is more important because 22:01:11 Naruto Crossovers Harry Potter (1,461) 22:01:16 hetalia axis powers fans are :| 22:01:29 http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6139756/1/James-Bond-and-the-Black-Man 22:01:29 sgeo likes naruto and harry potter fanfiction right 22:01:33 james bond + odyssey crossover fanfiction 22:01:36 (rated M) 22:01:51 Harry Potter and the cloaked death » by Dinner 22:01:53 this sounds kool 22:01:54 Other fun but more depressing things to do include looking up fanfiction by word count. 22:02:02 There's this one of some anime that's like, longer than Proust. 22:02:04 Meeting Death is the end for most, if not all living creatures. But what happens when it is not Death that sends you to your next great adventure? Rated T for death and gore later in the story. No ships, no yaoi, no bashing and no, this story does not feature a pink pony or flubberworms, seriously; why do you keep asking that? 22:02:06 i think this one is nonserious :( 22:02:15 monqy: great 22:02:20 lets write a fan fiction which is a cross over of everything, and also X-rated 22:02:38 or if not everything, at least about a 100 things 22:02:38 Valentine's Day For the Messenger by Kyuubi16 Hermione Granger was never fond of Valentine's Day. Though things might change when a certain spiky blonde hair friend of hers conveys to her why she's his perfect Valentine. 22:02:41 And Then They All Fucked: An Epic in Terza Rima 22:03:11 does actual good fanfic even exist? 22:03:16 yes 22:03:22 maybe 22:03:24 have you ever read anything by hans von hozel 22:03:27 i can't remember reading good fanfic 22:03:46 monqy, no clue who that even is 22:03:57 i recall reading fanfiction and liking it but i've forgotten what it was 22:04:00 Things we hide » by Ezra Scarlet -- Naruot hides many things behind that mask of his.So many things that he has no intention of ever telling anyone.Suddenly,Naruto and the rest of team 7 are sent on a mission to protect Harry Potter.Will Naruto be able to keep his many secrets,protect Harry from evil snake-temes and ward of questions from his teamates,all at the same time?takes place during 22:04:06 the 5th book. 22:04:22 Hans is basically Homer and Shakespeare and Eliot combined in one sexy, sexy package 22:04:25 monqy, oh god 22:04:39 i only read the first 200 pages of HPMOR but it has some good moments 22:04:41 it has 5 chapters 22:04:45 t.s. elliott 22:04:48 my names elliott Bike 22:04:58 You are not sexy enough to be in this package. 22:04:59 sorry for joke steal 22:05:08 how do you know i'm not sexy!!!! 22:05:19 Aren't you like underage 22:05:30 don't you look like a 10-year-old girl 22:05:31 are you trying to entrap me in a snare of illegal child pornography of yourself 22:05:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:05:50 kmc, what is HPMOR? 22:05:58 I'm not a libertarian. Also, not sure if I might be a dickhead despite implications in this channel that unlike that person, I'm not a dickhead. 22:06:01 Harry Potter and the... 22:06:05 Methods of Rationality 22:06:11 you're not a dickhead, sgeo. 22:06:16 http://cache.futurelooks.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/GIGABYTE-G1-Killer-Assassin-2-Sandy-Bridge-E-Motherboard-2.jpg 22:06:23 Thank god for my memory and wasted time on TVTropes 22:06:28 this is the problem with PC hardware 22:06:41 Sgeo: are you eating properly? 22:06:44 kmc, that is the problem with overpriced PC *gaming* hardware 22:06:45 Bike: i'm almost 18 :( 22:06:51 kmc: amazing 22:06:56 Sgeo, you aren't a dickhead 22:06:58 If .VGM ever add the support of Amiga Paula chip, then I might make the .MOD to .VGM but in order to do so, also I want to know what character set the Amiga ProTracker use for 0x80-0xFF character codes, and the conversion table into UTF-16. 22:07:01 you don't have the conviction for it 22:07:03 Bike: man I remember when I was 10 and knew more than everyone else around me 22:07:03 Was talking via email to a very religious friend recently. After I emailed her something, she said some stuff and then said "she's kind of tired of this conversation, unless ...", and then I replied to that stuff before saying that I'll be quiet now. 22:07:06 kmc, is it photoshopped? 22:07:10 Vorpal: don't think so 22:07:14 Bike: possibly that even lasted until I was 12 22:07:17 elliott: Those were bad times, man. Baaaaad times. 22:07:29 Vorpal: there's very little between "shit computers for office workers" and "overpriced gaming hardware" 22:07:36 kmc, work stations? 22:07:40 in some product categories there is literally nothing 22:07:42 for example wired mice 22:08:10 ...Oh, *that* kind of product category. 22:08:12 kmc: i read "product categories" as in 22:08:13 yeah 22:08:15 sigh 22:08:15 the product of two categories 22:08:16 NERDS 22:08:22 kmc, uh, there is or was, I have a MS Comfort Optical Mouse 3000 that I really like 22:08:31 don't think that model is still being made 22:08:47 elliott, hahah 22:09:03 i like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104577 22:09:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:09:04 I want the wired three buttons mouse without the scroll wheel, do they have those? 22:09:16 i've seen 'em 22:09:21 kmc, that is right hand only right? 22:09:21 which is advertised as a "gaming mouse" but it doesn't have like a glowing cutout of a skeleton fucking a robot elf 22:09:22 don't know if they're still manufactured 22:09:33 kmc, I shift often so I need a symmetric mouse 22:09:37 Vorpal: hm, i guess so 22:09:42 why do you shift? 22:09:50 kmc, to reduce strain on either hand 22:09:56 I had some issues with that in the past 22:10:07 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:10:20 so yeah 22:11:04 kmc, anyway, you can go for work station rather than "gaming" or "cheap office" 22:11:15 but usually it ends up even more expensive then 22:11:38 say, thinkpad for example 22:11:42 my computer is like a netbook i got for under $200, i see people talking about buying computers and get mildly frightened 22:11:58 Bike, why? 22:12:10 dunno 22:12:16 I think my desktop cost around 9000 SEK when I bought it 22:12:29 and my laptop around that too 22:12:37 i have this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 22:12:56 which i like a lot, but there were very few other options in the same quality/price range that don't look entirely ridiculous 22:13:10 my laptop is a thinkpad though, so the price/performance is not all that good, but it is well built and has a track point at least 22:13:46 kmc, I have a Antec P183, it only has a tiny blue LED on front for the power 22:13:53 no glowing silliness or such 22:14:06 death to all LEDs 22:14:11 kill, maim, destroy 22:14:23 elliott, even tiny faint ones? 22:14:25 yes 22:14:29 why 22:14:29 Vorpal: looks pretty good, like 3x as expensive though 22:14:37 pretty sure blue LEDs don't come in "faint" models 22:14:44 i think i got the Three Hundred for $40 22:14:50 kmc, isolates the noise quite well though 22:14:55 kmc, which was the main thing for me 22:14:57 olsner: i put a 10 kΩ resistor in series with my power LED on one of my computers 22:15:05 that makes it pretty dim 22:15:23 kmc, lets just say there is a hell of a difference when I open the front door 22:15:39 kmc, and I'm quite sensitive to noise 22:16:17 i guess elliott is a fan of R"hi(ultraviolent leds)hi" 22:16:31 what 22:16:41 olsner, well it is pretty weak and it is also recessed, so from where I sit it ends up faint 22:17:02 shachaf, what is that 22:17:41 Vorpal: C++11 quotes 22:17:53 shachaf, uh... 22:17:56 shachaf, okay? 22:18:01 what does it mean 22:18:03 R"blahblah(text)blahblah" 22:18:11 You can make up your own delimiter. 22:18:12 um? 22:18:15 really? c++11 has that? 22:18:21 C++11 has everything, man. 22:18:37 C++11 even has lenses 22:18:39 True fact. 22:18:45 it's really hard to tell if something is a joke or an actual c++11 feature 22:19:03 kmc should make one of those online quizzes. 22:19:05 Taneb, it does? how? 22:19:17 Vorpal, I was joking. shachaf may not have been. 22:19:41 ah 22:19:41 shachaf: you should write a lens library for Boost 22:19:41 Vorpal: lenses exist in all things 22:19:47 Although I don't know enough about C++11 to know if that's impossible or not 22:20:12 olsner, oh? I haven't really more than glanced at them, so I couldn't possibly comment on that 22:21:05 someone might want to take a list of koans and replace well-chosen words with lens-related terms 22:21:29 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:21:31 -!- AnotherTest has left. 22:22:24 A monk once asked edwardk, "What is a lens?". edwardk answered him with "The Six Ungraspables." 22:22:45 Funny, I'm about to ask a Lens question 22:22:51 i think i had a dream about lens 22:23:12 because i have these funky lens memories but i dont think they ever happened in reality 22:23:57 monqy, maybe you were high on lenses at the time? 22:24:06 i sinned yesterday 22:24:16 well early this morning? 22:24:19 what sort of sin are we talking here 22:24:26 unspeakable???? 22:24:27 I assume the paper from a paper plate won't kill me if some gets ingested 22:24:32 should we notify the police? 22:24:40 um it involved monad explanations 22:24:46 oh 22:24:54 oh that thing 22:25:01 i remember that 22:25:16 Oh, maybe I mentioned it in here already. 22:25:26 you did 22:25:53 ok 22:25:59 do i need to say some hail monqys 22:26:05 please dont 22:26:21 Sgeo: food is commonly served on poison 22:26:22 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:27:51 shachaf, at the end of his annual summer meditation retreat, said to his monks "The whole summer I have lectured you. Look! Has shachaf any eyebrows?" aristid said: "A robber knows in his heart he is a thief." ocharles said: "Far from dropping off from too much talking, they have grown longer!" But then edwardk forcefully shouted: "Kan!" 22:28:39 Does lens have full kōan support? 22:29:00 Is there such a thing as a full kōan? 22:29:11 Bike, forall f => Functor f 22:32:06 whoa, man. 22:32:26 (ignore the incorrect Haskell) 22:32:44 night 22:32:50 Night! 22:35:05 khaaaaaaaaaaan 22:35:21 ^ the khan extension 22:35:22 this CVS Best Practices guide has a chapter on how to "Institutionalize CVS in the Organization" (sadly they mean the wrong thing) 22:35:23 hey Taneb we're minecrafting again 22:35:32 Oh no 22:35:36 The old channel? 22:35:36 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:35:49 yes 22:36:02 Taneb, seems though like everyone except me and Gregor left on an expidition 22:36:08 It's kind of lonely :( 22:36:34 maybe Taneb can keep Sgeo company 22:36:36 well 22:36:40 greyknight was at spawn too 22:37:19 "The notion of Kan extensions subsumes all the other fundamental concepts of category theory." cool 22:37:37 istr skipping to the end of cftwm and seeing that 22:37:52 THis is a fun time to realise I have neither Minecraft nor Java on this computer 22:58:58 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:06:12 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:12:35 A monk once asked edwardk: "What is this place where knowledge is useless?" edwardk answered him: "#esoteric" 23:12:42 another lens koan 23:13:03 i remember when edwardk was in #esoteric 23:13:21 Apparently I met cpressey 23:13:24 Which worries me 23:13:53 like irl?? 23:13:56 No 23:13:57 Here 23:14:02 MANY YEARS AGO 23:14:05 MANLY YEARS AGO 23:14:48 one time i was here and zomgmodules was here but i forget it. it's like i was a child in that i dont remember it 23:15:07 is meeting cpressey like the end of 2001 23:15:08 who is zomgmodules 23:15:14 was cpresey really not around when monqy was ever? 23:15:17 apart from that time 23:16:22 edwardk once said to his disciples "However wonderful an operator is, may be that it is better not to have it at all" 23:17:04 that doesn't sound like edwardk at all 23:17:13 you should do the one where he kills his disciple for no reason 23:17:22 If you meat edwardk on the road, kill him 23:17:38 not that one, the other one 23:17:43 i hope never to meat edwardk on the road 23:17:45 no problem 23:17:45 taneb i think you may have made a typo 23:17:50 i hope never to meat anyone, really 23:17:52 it changes the meaning of your sentence slightly 23:18:01 I meant exactly what I said 23:18:10 at that point it's a mercy kill 23:18:10 the road is a pretty kinky place to meat people taneb 23:18:21 meating's like roadkill right 23:18:26 Bike, less kinkier than, eg, the train station 23:18:28 you run over a person and then they're meat 23:18:39 They were meat before you ran them over too. 23:18:41 let's go with: yes 23:18:43 But I was referring to fucking. 23:18:46 monqy, no, meating is when you throw hamsteaks at people 23:18:52 Bike: :☺) 23:19:02 monqy, that is hideous 23:21:18 i met edwardk on the road 23:21:22 but i never meated him 23:21:33 sounds dangerous 23:21:36 what is lens? everyday programming is lens. can it be studied? if you try to study, you will be far away from it. if i do not study, how can i know it is for ruby ninjas with ten years of experience? lens does not belong to the typed world, nor does it belong to the untyped world. typing is a delusion and lack of typing is senseless. if you want to reach the true lens, place yourself in the same freedom as fortran. you name it either elegant o 23:22:00 Bike: /script load splitlong.pl 23:22:07 thanks 23:22:16 i liked the cutting off 23:22:26 i figured that would cut off but i don't care because it's dumb 23:22:49 what came after 23:23:01 elliott: my money is on an r 23:23:07 if you want to reach the true lens, place yourself in the same freedom as fortran. you name it either elegant or not-elegant. 23:24:04 Anyway I couldn't find it so you got that instead. 23:24:08 Just imagine at some point a monk dies. 23:25:12 silly talk, monks don't die 23:25:39 they just decompose 23:25:51 like functional languages 23:26:29 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:27:59 Remember Miranda 23:28:15 copyright whoever owns Miranda 23:28:36 i'll never forget her 23:28:49 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 23:29:35 laziest girl I ever knew 23:35:55 * impomatic has a book about Miranda :-) 23:36:19 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/193r5r/why_infinity_is_stupid/ 23:36:20 omg 23:36:25 this will be fun 23:36:54 that's quite unlikely 23:37:20 "Out side of human perception it is impossible. I had to do a paper on it ..." 23:37:20 If a quantum is the smallest something can get and we have this law about not making new ones if you we're to measure the universe in quanta wouldn't the smallest number that can exist be set by Planck constant and the largest by the total of quanta and we would have a physical cap to all numbers. 23:37:46 did you post that? 23:38:05 wow there are serious replies 23:38:17 doesthiswork: somehow I doubt that 23:38:23 or well, one serious reply 23:39:26 I get annoyed sometimes because nobody else rhymes finite and infinite 23:39:52 And then they make fun of me 23:40:07 which way do you rhyme it? 23:40:41 Both rhyme with "in it" 23:40:59 Bike, and another serious reply (mine) 23:41:16 yours wasn't there when i looked 23:41:21 I just posted it 23:41:22 this person is a lost cause 23:41:24 also i didn't mean that as a "hm there should be more serious replies" 23:41:53 I don't think they're a lost cause yet, their young and trying to understand 23:42:02 "I posted here cause its math it has numbers but ill delete if its out of place." also i think this poster is like fourteen probably 23:42:03 *they're 23:42:25 also also i have a horrible feeling that i should get into an argument with you about the True Nature of mathematical reality 23:42:38 yes 23:42:41 i want arguments 23:42:57 Taneb: that's fairly normal I think, think of e.g. excel and excellent 23:42:59 "Do Roman numerals end or is there a point where they run out of new letters and just keep adding the largest numeral to its self?" good poster 23:44:19 There's the bar you can add to some numerals to turn them into thousands or something I think? 23:44:28 But overall I believe they run out at some point 23:44:54 http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/17ya8x/but_seriously/c8a313e help i can't stop 23:45:10 thy actually do make sense when you see them as a landmark system 23:45:29 It's not like the romans really needed things like a billion 23:45:50 Bike, beautiful 23:45:52 Slereah: um what if they wanted a list of numbers that don't exist 23:45:54 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:46:05 Bike: perfect comment 23:46:09 Slereah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_economy 23:46:11 Well then they invented new numbers! 23:46:27 I think Archimedes did a special number system for very large numbers? 23:46:45 Their economy was in the billion-sesterce range. 23:46:45 yeah, for the sand reckoner. 23:46:54 Phantom_Hoover : But 23:47:00 largest number is busy beaver n 23:47:03 Did any individual in particular need ONE BILLION 23:47:20 the greeks had a billion moneys? 23:47:25 i just kinda assumed they had like 100 23:47:33 because it was a toy model civilisation like you'd buy in a box 23:47:37 i shudder to consider how long division works with roman numerals 23:47:38 Nah, the greeks are only poor nowadays! 23:47:39 simplified down so you can learn about it in history class 23:47:50 wait 23:47:51 that was the romans 23:47:54 well same thing 23:48:01 Slereah, well they might well have wanted to know how much money everyone was making... 23:48:03 The romans are also simplified down, they were just also on fire more often. 23:48:20 Maybe! 23:48:59 I guess maybe there was some bureaucrat who had to estimate the Empire's GDP at some point 23:49:03 Not sure if that was the case 23:52:19 "The name sestertius (originally semis-tertius) means "2 ½", the coin's original value in asses" 23:53:58 -!- augur has joined. 23:58:10 Bike: That's one hell of a quote right there! 23:58:24 So that means the GDP was about 50 billion asses! 23:58:44 what's a quote 23:59:21 What you said at 23:48... 23:59:34 o 23:59:49 the one with the romans and the fire?