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01:21:53 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:16: parse error on input `data'
01:22:12 <Bike> i thought it was because statements let bla bla expression bla, bla bla bla bla
01:23:53 <shachaf> Well, @let doesn't take expressions.
01:24:15 <shachaf> @let data Bike = Impossible
01:24:45 <shachaf> With @let, it verifies that your declaration is OK and then just sticks it into a file.
01:26:06 <shachaf> Bike: People are talking about you in #haskell now
01:26:13 <zzo38> Why do timers in Open Sound Control always use absolute timestamps? I suggest, allow the program using it, to have an option for a specific starting timestamp to cause it to consider it to have that timestamp instead of the actual date/time.
01:27:00 <Bike> shachaf: why the hell
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01:27:21 <shachaf> Bike: You can blswett for it.
01:28:59 <shachaf> I tried to look at http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/308-h.htm
01:29:08 <shachaf> And somehow I got http://shachaf.net/jkj.html
01:29:35 <Bike> no the pictures
01:30:20 <elliott> The &ldN dw whspske Tt is aWqeloite pwoe e an,at w,h oneirch ,ne segmedoeohseaseiseo hameen on guilt sbronr w;ereflecte; iaerh& faces od oen ntt we The posInhsioence,dwesdragghe eu0 alm s tohaulh; tlehGladotoho Tt is aWqeloite pur e o but w n thd wn e o but w;une raessqubwas iursur w!>The &ldTwtntor d-d hoalaterhemrres figursg,hf,n,ewce boaa shi od- uitie edo , mougheha rge marsetrscrsteht snbaltrilymm. The &ldBlack lee witeshssg,hdrr y;isuit , .en
01:30:46 <Bike> lkj looks the same except without pictures
01:31:00 <shachaf> Search for "I was thinking"
01:32:04 <monqy> i like how it all gets crossed out
01:33:39 <tswett> And that's what happens when you try to parse HTML using regular expressions.
01:35:03 <Bike> Did you do that shachaf?
01:35:20 <shachaf> Bike: I just looked at the page in my browser......................................................
01:35:34 <Bike> We can delay the ritual cleansing.
01:36:11 <monqy> perhaps it got corrupted by shachaf's malignant aura
01:36:17 <monqy> cleanse immediately
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01:46:13 <shachaf> monqy: elliott has a malignant aura too now........
01:49:34 <kmc> what about my aura
01:50:08 <elliott> kmc: remember how I said you should rejoin #haskell for a day to see what it's like now?
01:50:19 <elliott> I take it back. it's completely terrible as of now
01:50:43 <kmc> my judgement is vindicated
01:50:52 <elliott> it's all shachaf's fault, I think
01:51:55 <Bike> That's pretty terrible.
01:53:48 <kmc> what has happened
01:54:30 <kmc> wait elliott is an op now?
01:54:56 <shachaf> They'll take just anyone these days.
01:59:03 <shachaf> ππ¨π₯π πππ±π
01:59:07 <shachaf> ππ¨π₯π πππ±π
01:59:22 <shachaf> I wish that didn't break in screen. :-(
02:00:18 <zzo38> Do you know if any FPGA is available in through-holes?
02:01:37 <kmc> very unlikely, maybe some simple PLD
02:01:48 <kmc> but also you can get breakout boards
02:02:06 <kmc> either specifically for that FPGA or just for the SMT form factor
02:02:24 <kmc> eg http://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2811
02:05:03 <shachaf> 18:04 <fizbin> > ?src bike
02:05:03 <shachaf> 18:04 <lambdabot> mueval-core: internal error: PAP object entered!
02:05:03 <shachaf> 18:04 <lambdabot> (GHC version 7.4.2 fo...
02:05:53 <Bike> (what is a PAP object, is it like a pap smear)
02:07:34 <shachaf> (I think it stands for partial application or something.)
02:08:24 <kmc> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Rts/Storage/HeapObjects#Partialapplications
02:09:08 <kmc> even though Haskell only has 1-arg functions, for efficiency GHC implements different arities
02:09:29 <kmc> and even though (f x) would be equivalent to a simple function closure (\y -> f x y)
02:09:32 <kmc> it's not represented that way
02:09:33 <Bike> why can't you enter them
02:09:50 <Bike> how does looking up source enter one
02:09:58 <kmc> these are fine questions
02:10:09 <kmc> i think you can't enter them becuase they're known to already be evaluated
02:10:15 <kmc> but i'm not sure why it should be an error vs. just a no-op
02:11:14 <shachaf> Well, if you can statically guarantee that they're never entered, then making entering one an error seems reasonable to me.
02:11:26 <kmc> but i don't know why that's a static guarantee
02:11:31 <shachaf> Anyway, in this case there's an implicit param involved -- I think it's a GHC/GHC API bug.
02:11:35 <kmc> what if I write something like (mod 2) `seq` ()
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02:12:01 <Bike> > (mod 2) `seq` ()
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02:12:18 <kmc> yeah you can force functions
02:12:22 <kmc> which is a little weird
02:12:28 <elliott> it's actually really terrible :(
02:12:40 <kmc> elliott: well if it weren't allowed, people would just use dumb wrappers
02:12:49 <elliott> you couldn't just use a dumb wrapper
02:12:57 <kmc> i guess not
02:13:01 <elliott> seq on functions is what lets you distinguish _|_ vs. const _|_
02:13:08 <elliott> and hence breaks 2389427394872389428934728934728934 quadrillion useful properties
02:13:09 <kmc> you would also disallow data Fun a b = Fun !(a -> b)
02:13:14 <kmc> elliott: that's alot
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02:13:45 <kmc> it's v. useful operationally to allow it tho
02:13:59 <shachaf> what about data Foo a = Foo !a; ... :: Foo (a -> b)
02:14:16 <shachaf> kmc: Well, it makes life harder for people writing optimizers too.
02:14:22 <kmc> shachaf: well maybe Foo :: (Eval a) => a -> Foo a
02:14:24 <shachaf> Since you can't simplify (\x -> f x) to f, for instance.
02:14:27 <kmc> "like the good old days"
02:14:43 <shachaf> This ends up being relevant in all sorts of ways.
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02:15:12 <Bike> ok can i be dumb for a second, i want to understand why you couldn't simplify (\x -> f x) to f in any situation.
02:15:23 <elliott> Bike: consider f = undefined
02:15:26 <shachaf> > (\x -> undefined x) `seq` ()
02:15:47 <Bike> > :t undefined
02:15:49 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `:'
02:16:08 <Sgeo_> undefined is bottom
02:16:17 <Bike> there's an object in bottom?
02:16:38 <kmc> not really
02:16:47 <kmc> 'undefined' is denotationally equivalent to an infinite loop
02:16:49 <Sgeo_> bottom is a value that inhabits all types. It itself isn't a type.
02:16:56 <elliott> though there is a bottom type.
02:17:01 <kmc> > (let x :: Int -> Int; x = x in x) `seq` ()
02:17:05 <elliott> (Void, conventionally; which actually is inhabited (by bottom!) in Haskell)
02:17:14 <Bike> that seems like a pretty weird value to have
02:17:21 <kmc> the fact that some undefined terms print an error message rather than melting your CPU is an operational detail
02:17:22 <shachaf> There's only a botton type if you allubtyping.
02:17:27 <kmc> in fact GHC can detect some infinite loops too
02:17:29 <coppro> why is elsewhen not a word
02:17:33 <coppro> I'm going to make it a word
02:17:51 <coppro> except maybe it is because this is english
02:17:58 <Bike> You're never going to make it a word with that attitude, coppro.
02:18:04 <Sgeo_> Bike, it's the same value as the value of an infinite loop (conceptually)
02:18:06 <kmc> this is madness &c
02:18:50 <Bike> Sgeo_: I get that. I'm just not used to it being "a thing" in whatever weird-ass sense undefined is a thing.
02:19:12 <shachaf> Bike: It's like a function returning an infinite loop. Except it's a value.
02:19:21 <Bike> yes but why is it a value
02:19:22 <shachaf> int foo() { return foo(); }
02:19:24 <Sgeo_> Well, there are things you can't do with it
02:19:39 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `undefined' (imported from Prel...
02:19:42 <elliott> Bike: undefined just throws an exception.
02:19:44 <Sgeo_> You can't compare against it, check for it. f _|_ = 5 means f _ = 5. iiuc
02:20:06 <kmc> someone should mention lub at some point
02:20:08 <kmc> but i gotta go
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02:21:40 <shachaf> kmc: Did you see Simon Marlow's book on Parallel and Concurrent Haskell?
02:21:46 <Sgeo_> "It provides a lub function that is consistent with the unamb operator but has a more liberal precondition. Where unamb requires its arguments to equal when neither is bottom, lub is able to synthesize a value from the partial information contained in both of its arguments, which is useful with non-flat types."
02:23:49 <elliott> kmc: should they mention that lub is unsafe too
02:24:43 <Sgeo_> lub presumably uses unsafePeformIO. Pretty sure unamb does, anyway
02:28:15 <shachaf> better to have lubbed and β₯ed than never to have lubbed at all
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02:30:45 * Sgeo_ vaguely wonders if HCSMP is scarier than DayZ, considering that I don't think DayZ does a ban for the month for dying
02:32:58 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `nub' (imported from Data.List)
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02:33:19 <kmc> shachaf: true facts
02:34:41 <kmc> many of them
02:34:49 <kmc> i did not know of this book
02:35:17 <shachaf> http://ofps.oreilly.com/titles/9781449335946/index.html
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03:29:09 <jdvorak> Hi. What is the purpose of this channel?
03:29:19 <kmc> `welcome jdvorak
03:29:27 <HackEgo> jdvorak: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
03:30:14 <Bike> Are you related to ddvorak?
03:30:27 <jdvorak> No, jdvorak is a pen name.
03:30:30 <shachaf> Are you related to this other jdvorak I talked to once?
03:30:45 <shachaf> Actually I know of multiple jdvoraks.
03:30:53 * elliott bets jdvorak = John C. Dvorak
03:31:38 <monqy> is that good or bad
03:31:57 <jdvorak> You might know my cousin, Ronald Qwerty.
03:34:46 <pikhq> ε€εγγγ£γ΄γ©γ©γγ―γγγγγ
03:35:24 <Bike> ε€ looks cool, like it's being dragged
03:35:45 <Bike> unfortunately my char thing only knows it as "U+591A", blugh.
03:39:36 <jdvorak> I know nothing of esoteric programming languages. I was thinking about using the channel logs to power a chatterbot, but I'm not sure if that would work well.
03:40:02 <jdvorak> APL looks pretty hot though IMHO.
03:40:02 <Bike> there is already one and it is found quite amusing, so it oughta work
03:40:14 <Bike> fungot: working now?
03:40:14 <fungot> Bike: telepathy is just a snake, to stand before the mast, by rudyard kipling)
03:40:22 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
03:40:28 <monqy> that's not the right style
03:40:32 <Bike> Nethack has Kipling in it?
03:40:37 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
03:40:44 <jdvorak> fungot: do you like cheese..?
03:40:45 <fungot> jdvorak: and designed the original command set of emacs macros then? how about a length cell followed by that other stuff
03:40:47 <Bike> fungot, why does Adams even have a channel?
03:40:47 <fungot> Bike: intel doesn't make cpus like that because they think fnord tastes good. or something. ;p http://www.slengpung.com/ v3/ fnord
03:41:09 <Bike> This is a weird site.
03:41:10 <jdvorak> fungot: i like kosher bacon
03:41:11 <fungot> jdvorak: the bot's logging still isn't working... ram is merely an implementation detail?
03:41:32 <kmc> i've said it before and i'll say it again: zzo38_ebooks
03:41:52 <Bike> zzo38_ebooks is actually just a live twitter feed of everything he says
03:42:08 <monqy> im craving that ebooks quote now
03:42:11 <HackEgo> 841) <GreyKnight> fungot, sing me to sleep <fungot> GreyKnight: 53. file://localhost/ mnt/ space/ media/ books/ 1000+sci-fi%20books/%5bebooks%5d%201000+%20sciencefiction%20%26%20fantasy%20novels%20%28.lit%20forma/ pratchett%2c%20terry/ text/ 14/ fnord <GreyKnight> This is not a very good song \ 859) <kmc> i would subscribe to @zzo38_ebooks <zzo3
03:42:19 <HackEgo> 859) <kmc> i would subscribe to @zzo38_ebooks <zzo38> kmc: I have no ebooks which can subscribe to
03:43:16 <fungot> jdvorak: and i have big heat sinks... on the one page before i go on? :)
03:44:24 <Bike> ugh what is it
03:44:27 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
03:44:31 <jdvorak> Hmm.. I'm not sure if the channel logs for this channel will work well. The conversations in this channel tend to be a bit cryptic.
03:44:37 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list
03:44:51 <fungot> (http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S
03:45:02 <monqy> jdvorak: would your chatterbot be coherent enough for it to matter?
03:45:17 <Bike> right http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 that's some good code
03:45:18 <fungot> Bike: making image, item, and prevent it from running, and you can't interpret what that means
03:45:43 <shachaf> i would subscribe to @kmc_ebooks
03:45:46 <jdvorak> monqy: I hadn't really thought about it.
03:45:58 <Bike> are chatterbots ever coherent
03:46:03 <Bike> is language inherently representational?
03:46:05 <shachaf> coherently constructive chatterbots
03:46:09 <Bike> it's a question that needs to be answered
03:46:31 <shachaf> monqy: is that you disapproving at me
03:46:34 <Bike> thanks lambdabot i'd been wondering
03:47:13 <jdvorak> Right now I am running a script to strip all of the license information out of all the public domain Project Gutenberg etexts and downloading Wikipedia.
03:47:34 <shachaf> are you allowed to do that
03:47:37 <Bike> wait, does gutenberg have non-public-domain texts?
03:47:49 <monqy> but then how will you know they're public domain
03:48:02 <jdvorak> Yeah, about 20% of them are not public domain.
03:48:20 <shachaf> and all his copyrights are expired by now
03:48:37 <Bike> they didn't even have copyrights in the fourteenth century, but anyway what kind of licenses are the other things under
03:48:45 <jdvorak> the public domain ones have a message stating that they are copyrighted
03:49:02 <Slereah_> In the 14th century almost nobody had books
03:49:10 <Slereah_> Copyrights were a rather useless notion
03:49:39 <Bike> picturing a monk slapping another monk for copying the wrong gospel (motherfucker)
03:49:46 <jdvorak> The PG complete works of Shakespeare are copyrighted.... seems a little silly, right?
03:50:01 <Bike> Oh, right, eternal copyright of the crown or whatever
03:50:13 <jdvorak> copyright of the transcriber
03:50:14 <shachaf> kmc: Want another fun game?
03:50:19 <kmc> gΓΌtenbΓΈrg would be a good name for a band
03:50:21 <kmc> shachaf: yes
03:50:21 <shachaf> Oh, this one looks like it might be a mosh bug.
03:50:22 <Bike> guess that covers KJV and Peter Pan in nobodycaresland
03:51:14 <shachaf> kmc: In irssi, type ΛΝΛ and then repeatedly ^W/^Y it
03:51:18 <jdvorak> Whoever typed in the PG Shakespeare complete works wants royalties if you produce a derivative work.
03:51:32 <shachaf> That's U+02D9 U+035C U+02D9
03:51:40 <shachaf> (Probably works with other sequences too.)
03:51:53 <kmc> haha shachaf
03:51:59 <kmc> how did you discover this
03:52:07 <kmc> is it a mosh bug or an irssi bug or?
03:52:20 <jdvorak> But anyway, I am going to go try to figure out how to program girls' pants zippers.
03:52:23 <shachaf> Doesn't happen to me in plain irssi
03:52:26 <kmc> elliott: it munches up the prompt
03:52:36 <Sgeo_> Going to finally get modern Haskell
03:52:49 <shachaf> Oh, it's just a combining character thing...
03:53:04 <shachaf> Well, not every character.
03:53:46 <shachaf> And aΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝaaΝa works better!
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03:55:47 <shachaf> Or maybe it's some specific thing about the interaction of mosh and irssi.
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06:23:10 * Sgeo_ has some J-like thoughts that might fit better in a dependently typed environment
06:23:28 <Sgeo_> Mostly because I think it really wants a list in the type
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06:47:20 <fungot> Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
06:47:28 <shachaf> Did someone vandalise slist?
06:47:49 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
06:48:11 <Sgeo_> Yes, Phantom_Hoover did
06:48:18 <Sgeo_> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/16641639a4cf
06:48:38 <shachaf> @tell Phanton_Hoover not to vandalize slist
06:49:04 <Bike> wtf is a jobby
06:49:32 <HackEgo> patching file slist \ Hunk #1 FAILED at 1. \ 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file slist.rej
06:49:54 <HackEgo> slist.rej:--- slistMon Feb 25 12:50:34 2013 +0000 \ slist.rej:+++ slistSun Feb 24 20:51:34 2013 +0000 \ slist.rej:@@ -1 +1 @@ \ slist.rej:-echo Sgeo is a jobby \ slist.rej:+echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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07:25:42 <Fiora> MEENAH: oh my glub the serk twins bein adorbubble again
07:30:45 <zzo38> Is that a real word?
07:34:59 <Sgeo_> Are the words Shakespeare used real words?
07:35:02 <Sgeo_> What makes a word real?
07:36:04 <Bike> a word is real if the limit of the geometric mean of its continued fraction's terms is khinchin's constant
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07:38:51 <Fiora> Bike: but that's not true for all reals :<
07:39:09 <Bike> Words aren't numbers, Fiora.
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07:40:11 <shachaf> Sgeo_: Shakespeare isn't real =, so how could he have used real words?
07:40:19 <Fiora> but how can you average words
07:40:20 <shachaf> (Wait, does Sgeo_ still believe in Shakespeare?)
07:40:57 <shachaf> Fiora: Well, words are monoids.
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07:41:32 <Bike> If words form a field they probably even have continued fraction expansions, huh.
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07:41:45 <shachaf> Puzzle: From an alphabet of size 3, generate a string of length n that has no identical consecutive substring.
07:41:57 <shachaf> I.e. no aa or abab, but abcb is allowed.
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07:42:33 <Bike> without loss of generality, n = 1 and the answer is "b"
07:42:33 <kmc> shachaf: is there a clever way
07:42:44 * Sgeo_ wonders if it's even possible... it must be
07:42:51 <Sgeo_> After all, pi doesn't... erm, hmm
07:42:58 <kmc> i would just write a program that searches for it
07:43:28 <shachaf> Yes, there's a clever way to do it without backtracking.
07:43:47 <shachaf> (Not that I figured it out, or even understand how it works.)
07:43:50 <Bike> hm can you even use dynamic programming? probably not since you have to break into 50-50 but also 33-33-34 and 20-20-20-20-20 and so on and so forth
07:43:54 <Sgeo_> the decimal expansion of pi has an alphabet of size 10, and ... well, parts might repeat locally, but the whole thing doesn't repeat
07:44:03 <shachaf> It was presented to me as a "write a program to search for it" problem.
07:44:14 <shachaf> I should probably figure out the clever way.
07:44:27 <Bike> Why is the alphabet size three specifically, do you know?
07:44:41 <shachaf> And you can do any length string with 3.
07:44:47 <kmc> 3 is the interesting size for most things ;P
07:44:53 <monqy> how about 2 and a half
07:44:57 <kmc> 3-SAT, 3-coloring graphs
07:44:58 <Bike> not real math if you're dealing with numbers over three etc etc
07:45:02 <kmc> threesomes
07:45:10 <monqy> 2 and a halfsomes???
07:45:18 <Bike> Sgeo_: it's called a normal number, but that's not what shachaf asked for
07:45:24 <Bike> two and a halfsomes sound quite exciting.
07:45:34 <Bike> Is one of the parties dead? Or maybe an albatross.
07:45:39 <kmc> or a small child :x
07:45:48 <Bike> That's gross, dude.
07:45:51 <monqy> maybe it's a bunch of half-people
07:46:01 <kmc> hey it's not my fault there's a popular (terrible) TV show called two and a half men
07:46:12 <kmc> which is about two dudes and a kid
07:46:13 <Bike> Is the cocaine guy still on that?
07:46:17 <monqy> that's the one with the Foodfight! guy in it right
07:46:20 <kmc> no he died on the way back to his home planet
07:46:25 <shachaf> Perhaps an infinite series of people decreasing in size.
07:46:40 <monqy> the Foodfight! guy is dead?????
07:46:50 <Bike> shachaf, so jainist? kinky.
07:46:52 <kmc> now they have Ashton Kutcher instead
07:47:04 <Bike> now i am wondering though
07:47:12 <Bike> if you have a field you can have continued fractions on it right
07:47:27 <kmc> i don't know who the Foodfight! guy is or what Foodfight! is or what television is or how it's possible for anything to exist
07:48:18 <monqy> Foodfight! is beautiful, a work of art
07:48:50 <monqy> if you try hard and believe in yourself you can be anything you want to be
07:49:02 <shachaf> what if i want to be monqy
07:49:31 <monqy> well i didnt have to try at all to be monqy? maybe youre trying too hard
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07:52:54 <shachaf> monqy: imo you should start a cult
07:53:14 <monqy> sounds like a bad idea
07:53:19 <shachaf> maybe we should all start cults and see who wins
07:53:26 <Bike> Good thing for a forward thinking entrepeneurial Chinese friendshop monqy to do.
07:54:39 * shachaf suspects miaui is a cheap knockoff of miuaf.
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10:03:19 <zzo38> Can something be so disordered that any attempt to further disorder it will increase not the amount of disorder, but the amount of order?
10:04:09 <zzo38> Perhaps it depend what kind of order it is supposed to be and isn't?
10:14:46 <Phantom_Hoover> well you can obviously have systems with maximal entropy
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12:42:18 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
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14:07:19 <nooga> i'm playing DF again
14:08:31 <Sgeo_> nooga, go play Frog Fractions
14:10:03 <Sgeo_> http://twinbeardstudios.com/frog-fractions
14:10:06 <Sgeo_> (It's a flash game)
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14:23:36 <ion> Skrillex Drops One http://youtu.be/8qIdGkGFMLg
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14:40:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, when i first saw the name i thought it was frog factions
14:40:22 <Phantom_Hoover> and i thought it was going to be some sort of frog-themed grand strategy game
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14:54:43 <mroman> Can I argue that no random generate can exist which generates uniformly distributed random numbers in the range 0..Infinity?
14:55:15 <mroman> Because the probability of a number to occur would each be 1/Infinity ~= 0 => no number actually occurs
14:59:19 <kmc> that's not really what probability 0 means
14:59:30 <kmc> if you throw a dart at a dartboard, the probability of hitting the spot you do hit is zero
15:00:17 <kmc> though you can use this to argue that the continuum is a ridiculous concept
15:00:37 <elliott> assume a perfectly circular dartboard
15:01:23 <ion> assume a perfectly spherical dartboard
15:01:54 <boily> "assume a spherical dartboard in simple harmonic motion, in a vacuum..."
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15:16:52 <Sgeo_> I need to learn how to money
15:17:23 <Sgeo_> "I don't know monetary stuff that well" is probably a signal to companies meaing "We don't have to pay a decent salary at all"
15:17:37 <Taneb> Take nightclasses?
15:19:51 <kmc> why are you telling them that
15:21:06 <Sgeo_> Because they're asking how much I'm looking for
15:21:11 <Sgeo_> And I don't have an answer
15:21:32 <kmc> well you should research an answer
15:21:45 <kmc> this is an entry level software job, in what area of the world?
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15:22:08 <Sgeo_> Actually, person said it was a Junior developer position
15:22:19 <kmc> ask for $110,000
15:22:26 <kmc> you probably won't get it
15:22:41 <kmc> i don't know about NY but the average salary in SF area is now $120k
15:22:47 <kmc> and NY ain't cheap either
15:23:02 <Taneb> kmc is a lot more optimistic than I am
15:23:16 <kmc> $50k is a pittance for programmers
15:23:30 <Sgeo_> The figure they mentioned is lower than that :(
15:23:36 <kmc> well fuck them then
15:23:37 <Sgeo_> Although they said something about bonuses
15:23:40 <kmc> unless you think you can't get a higher paying job
15:23:44 <kmc> Sgeo_ is this a finance job
15:23:49 <kmc> wait, is this Jane St?
15:24:03 <kmc> this sounds like a horrible scam
15:26:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, how the fuck are you so worldly-wise about programmer wages in america...
15:26:41 <Taneb> I googled "new york average entry-level salary"
15:26:42 <Sgeo_> And I am starting to think I can't get a higher paying job
15:27:02 <kmc> how many have you interviewed with?
15:27:12 <Sgeo_> I haven't actually gotten any interviews yet.
15:27:13 <Taneb> Yes, Phantom_Hoover
15:27:39 <kmc> you can't say that you can't get a job if you haven't interviewed
15:27:44 <kmc> how many have you applied to?
15:27:53 <Sgeo_> If I can't get an interview, how could I get a job?
15:27:54 <kmc> are you getting rejected before the interview stage?
15:27:59 <Sgeo_> I've applied to a bunch
15:28:05 <kmc> maybe i misunderstood then
15:28:10 <kmc> how many is "a bunch"
15:28:29 <c00kiemon5ter> here you get about 1200/month and that should make you happy :D
15:28:34 <Sgeo_> I don't remember offhand. I should start keeping track of every application
15:29:27 <kmc> the US programmer salaries are silly and bubbly but that's what they are
15:29:52 <Sgeo_> Apparently only applied to 3 via LinkedIn. I remember more.
15:29:58 <Sgeo_> Let me see how many via Dice
15:30:16 <kmc> Sgeo_: if you're going to take a crappy job, make sure there's nothing in your contract preventing you from leaving later
15:30:20 <kmc> i.e. noncompete clause
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15:30:31 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, istr people saying we were in the middle of a second dot com bubble, like, two years ago
15:30:33 <kmc> common in NY finance especially
15:30:37 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: yep
15:30:49 <Sgeo_> 2 on Dice.com within the last 180 days
15:30:53 <Sgeo_> And iirc 4 on CyberCoders
15:31:04 <kmc> also the overpaid web brogrammers are driving everyone else out of SF by raising rents
15:31:08 <kmc> it pretty much sucks
15:31:08 <Phantom_Hoover> this was shortly after someone paid a tonne of cash for twitter when it was making a massive loss
15:32:06 <kmc> http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity554.html
15:32:15 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I misremembered the name
15:33:13 <Taneb> Question-and-answer site that Google bought out and subsequently discontinued
15:34:15 <Phantom_Hoover> have google actually succeeded in any of their Big New Ventures lately
15:34:54 <kmc> in 10 years SF will be full of former brogrammers who are now flipping burgers and picking up trash and doing all the shitty jobs that actually make a city work
15:35:09 <kmc> your garbage man will solicit you for angel investment in his shitty iphone app
15:35:10 <ais523> c00kiemon5ter: there is actually exactly one website that isn't a scam
15:35:14 <ais523> but I haven't figured out which one it is yet
15:35:26 <Taneb> Have I completely made up vark.com
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15:35:44 <ais523> Taneb: I think it's funnier not to find out
15:36:11 <Taneb> It was kind of like a stackoverflow of EVERYTHING
15:36:17 <elliott> ais523: haha, this B scam is fantastic
15:36:18 <Taneb> It was written inn Ruby on Rails
15:36:28 <elliott> Taneb: do you mean um... quora?
15:36:39 <ais523> isn't stackexchange kind of like a stackoverflow of everything?
15:37:27 <Phantom_Hoover> vark.com gives absolutely no relevant hits on google, which is fairly telling
15:38:09 <elliott> ais523: has this been a while in the making?
15:38:26 <ais523> elliott: the B scam? I think Wooble just came up with it out of nowhere
15:38:43 <ais523> I don't think it's possible to come up with it unless you're really cynical
15:38:49 <elliott> ais523: it's just, there's been a few posts in B out of nowhere the past few days
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15:38:53 <elliott> along with G.'s motion in Agora
15:39:06 <ais523> they are indeed out of nowhere, as far as I can tell
15:39:12 <ais523> but as soon as one starts, people are reminded of b
15:39:31 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: Wooble's like some sort of snark elemental
15:39:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: wooble is that guy who hates everyone
15:39:38 <ais523> he just exists to make snarky comments about things
15:39:56 <elliott> ais523: no, he also deregisters
15:39:57 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yes but you even wrote a poem about how much you hated him!
15:40:22 <elliott> I choose to believe it is true regardless
15:40:36 <ais523> I have posted a message to the public forum explicitly stating my wish to become a player more recently than I last forfeited the game.
15:40:44 <ais523> err, that's missing a <Wooble>
15:40:56 <ais523> anyway, it's hard to believe, because I thought Wooble was platonically forfeiting at every possible moment
15:41:12 <ais523> also he spelled your name wrong
15:41:20 <ais523> given that this is B, that quite possibly matters
15:41:30 <elliott> yes, I mentioned that on the list
15:41:37 <elliott> B is kind of like the formal logic version of nomic
15:47:10 <Taneb> I wonder if we made a nomic how long it would last
15:48:05 <Sgeo_> "Fun fact: If you have garbage collector, it may swoop in the middle of swapping and release your memory under your feet."
15:48:13 <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/19941q/swap_two_variables_without_using_a_temp_variable/c8lwvjv
15:48:38 <elliott> if you are storing pointers
15:48:44 <ais523> yeah, if you're swapping two pointers
15:48:50 <ais523> and you're running the gc in a different thread for some reason
15:48:57 <kmc> and you're using a conservative GC
15:48:59 <kmc> interesting
15:49:07 <kmc> conservative GC also can't deal with e.g. XOR linked list
15:50:17 <ais523> XOR linked lists make me feel really uneasy
15:50:42 <elliott> conservative GC makes me feel really uneasy
15:51:45 <ais523> they're /both/ awkward ideas
15:52:57 <kmc> the standard Ruby interpreter uses a conservative GC :( :( :(
15:53:36 <kmc> a conservative GC for a C program, which happens to be a Ruby interpreter
15:53:54 <Taneb> Wouldn't a conservative GC make lots of space leaks
15:53:56 <elliott> well the standard ruby interpreter does a great many things
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15:54:13 <elliott> kind of a pain to write C extensions with a precise GC though
15:54:29 <elliott> ruby does call/cc by copying the C stack btw
15:54:29 <kmc> Taneb: on 32-bit arches especially
15:55:16 <ais523> conservative GCs can't do any sort of interesting memory operations other than deallocation, can they?
15:55:30 <ais523> because they can't change pointers because they don't know whether they're pointers
15:55:41 <kmc> think that's correct
15:55:49 <kmc> so they can't fix heap fragmentation
15:55:54 <ais523> elliott: btw, what do you think of OCaml-style GCs? they work like conservative GCs but the runtime agrees not to use certain integers
15:56:00 <ais523> so that if those bit patterns are found, they're definitely pointers
15:58:01 <elliott> that's just standard tagging, no?
15:59:16 <kmc> part of what makes that work is that 'normal' code can't do things like XOR linked lists
15:59:37 <kmc> the language has opaque references but not pointers
15:59:37 <ais523> elliott: yeah but I like that way of describing it better :)
16:00:42 <elliott> I wonder how ocaml does arrays
16:00:45 <kmc> now i want to write an Acme.XorLinkedList module for Haskell
16:00:47 <kmc> just to horrify people
16:08:10 <kmc> did you know SPARC has instructions for pointer tagging
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16:09:30 <Fiora> kmc: like, an addressing mode that ignores tags when using a pointer?
16:09:59 <kmc> "Performs the addition of rs1 and op2, using twoβs complement arithmetic, storing the result into rd. Trap if either of the source operandsβ low-order two bits are not zero"
16:10:57 <kmc> they call these 'tagged arithmetic' instructions
16:11:26 <kmc> CPU trap on dynamic type error :)
16:12:08 <Fiora> I guess the inverse would be trapping on using a non-pointer as an address
16:12:27 <kmc> you can do that too but you have to use the high order bits ;)
16:12:40 <Fiora> ... oh true, paging and things
16:13:03 <kmc> SPARC enforces alignment doesn't it
16:13:12 <kmc> so that's built in and always enabled :)
16:13:33 <kmc> well but that's backwards then :/
16:13:46 <Fiora> ... yeah, I guess normally integers don't get a tag right
16:13:46 <kmc> if the arithmetic instruction also wants the low bits to be zero
16:14:00 <Fiora> oops. there goes that one
16:14:08 <Fiora> maybe we can make a chip that can only do unaligned loads
16:14:10 <Fiora> and traps on aligned loads
16:14:42 <kmc> "The UltraSPARC III - A magical mystery tour"
16:14:45 <kmc> i must read this immediately
16:15:29 <Fiora> "address space identifier" that's... huh o_O
16:16:04 <Fiora> configurable branch delay slots? O_O
16:16:44 <kmc> 14 stage pipeline o_O
16:16:58 <Fiora> "Direct call β 30-bit address in instruction" <-- so they must have been like, okay whatever we're using 25% of the entire instruction space for call
16:17:09 <kmc> Fiora: yeah, I guess it just lets you use a single bit rather than 32 bits for a NOP after the branch
16:17:32 <kmc> 14 stages sounds like a lot, but I don't really know
16:17:46 <kmc> thinking about designing a CPU with more than 2 stages makes my head spin ;P
16:17:49 <Fiora> I guess it probably would be
16:18:02 <Fiora> I guess I'm thinking of modern chips which have like, 14-25 stage pipelines
16:18:14 <Fiora> the atom is 16 apparently
16:18:16 <kmc> that's insane
16:18:19 <kmc> i did not know
16:18:46 <Fiora> core 2 is 14, sandy bridge is ~16-19 (I don't think the specifics are public)
16:19:09 <Fiora> oh I see, variable pipeline length
16:19:21 <Fiora> bulldozer is like... 22
16:20:06 <Fiora> I think pipelines have been around that depth for a loooong time now
16:20:12 <kmc> interesting
16:20:18 <kmc> what are all the stages?
16:20:37 * Fiora looks up some others. cortex a9 is 8-11 stages, cortex a8 is ~14 (?)
16:21:23 * kmc knows so little about how computers actually work
16:21:43 * Fiora tries to find some diagrams and things...
16:21:59 <kmc> i understand the basic 5 stage RISC pipeline
16:22:12 <kmc> though it's extremely unlikely I could design one with all the bypasses and whatever
16:22:26 <Fiora> instruction predecode (figure out instruction length, might be done in the fetch unit, might be a separate stage, etc)
16:22:32 <Fiora> instruction decode
16:22:48 <kmc> instruction fetch, instruction decode, lunch break
16:22:54 <Fiora> then there's an instruction queue and the microcode system to split up things into multiple uops
16:22:59 <kmc> memory fetch, tea & crumpets
16:23:06 <Fiora> and allocating registers from the renamer and stuff
16:23:20 <kmc> so is the rest of the pipeline a pipeline for uops
16:23:25 <Fiora> then stuff gets sent to the scheduler which dispatches uops around
16:23:38 <Fiora> http://docs.notur.no/uit/archive/HPCiA07/hpcia07-documents/intel-tools-tutorial/1.%20Core%20Architecture.pdf
16:23:51 <Fiora> Yeah, I think the rest is for uops
16:23:55 <kmc> isn't it cool that basically every part of a computer system contains a scheduler and a storage manager somewhere
16:25:21 <Fiora> I remember reading that the 'bottleneck' for modern pipelines (i.e. limiting factor for speed) is often things like "select the first 4 executable instructions from a 40-long queue"
16:25:28 <kmc> "Trade off LSD with conventional loop unrolling"
16:25:47 <kmc> interesting
16:26:04 <Fiora> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Cortex-A8_Architecture#Cortex-A8_Pipeline_Diagram
16:26:10 <Fiora> okay ARM's diagram is a gazillion times better
16:26:16 <Fiora> this one's an in-order chip too.
16:26:21 <elliott> kmc: snicker snicker lsd, etc.
16:26:24 <kmc> Non-IEEE FP?
16:26:52 <Fiora> I'm... guessing it has like, a slow fallback mode for denormals and things? <_>
16:26:52 <boily> WUT? that's possible?
16:27:05 <Fiora> the playstation 2 had non-IEEE FP!
16:27:52 <tswett> Hey, what VPN software should I use?
16:28:08 <Fiora> it had a FLOAT_MIN/FLOAT_MAX (no infinity), and no denormals, and all operations were saturating
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16:29:01 <Fiora> this has the 'upside' of contributing to making it incredibly obnoxious to emulate... XD
16:31:52 <boily> Fiora: interesting to know :)
16:32:09 <Fiora> (there's a bunch of other reasons that it's hard that I could ramble about but... )
16:32:19 <boily> tswett: openvpn. the one, the only, the open, the other qualifiers that begin with "o".
16:32:33 <Fiora> kmc: oh um... I think a lot of operations on CPUs nowadays can have multiple cycle latency which is one way the pipeline gets longer.
16:32:34 <kmc> PPP over SSH
16:32:42 <Fiora> like simd multiplies are 5 cycles on sandy bridge
16:32:48 <elliott> `addquote <tswett> Hey, what VPN software should I use? <boily> tswett: openvpn. the one, the only, the open, the other qualifiers that begin with "o".
16:32:52 <HackEgo> 970) <tswett> Hey, what VPN software should I use? <boily> tswett: openvpn. the one, the only, the open, the other qualifiers that begin with "o".
16:32:54 <kmc> tswett: i've done it, not a serious suggestion though
16:33:06 <kmc> you can find various articles about it
16:33:28 <boily> Fiora: not bad, but then, neither excellent.
16:33:38 <Fiora> they used to be 3 :<
16:33:48 <Taneb> You know that SK calculus interpreter I wrote yesterday?
16:33:59 <Taneb> I'm translating it into C
16:34:06 <Fiora> they've come up with some interesting ways to reduce the effective pipeline length I think, like, maybe it was starting with nehalem or something but they added the ability for the cpu to go in and cancel uops after a branch misprediction
16:34:46 <kmc> Taneb: godspeed you
16:34:49 <Fiora> so if it knows the branch mispredicts early, like the comparison for the branch doesn't have many dependencies or something, it can go in and toss all the uops from the mispredicted path and save lots of resources
16:35:08 <Fiora> iirc it helps double with hyperthreading, since that makes it easier for the cpu to keep doing something
16:36:44 <cuttlefish> Your divination: "Dwelling People" to "Dwelling People"
16:37:01 <boily> Taneb: tough luck with your C-slation.
16:38:07 <cuttlefish> Your divination: "Corrupting" to "Corrupting"
16:38:15 <cuttlefish> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
16:38:19 <cuttlefish> Your divination: "Gnawing Bite" to "Abounding"
16:38:31 * Fiora sorry for rambling, cpu architecture is fun <.<
16:38:48 <elliott> branch prediction scares me
16:39:00 <kmc> i too think it is fun
16:39:50 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: they already do.
16:40:21 <Phantom_Hoover> holy shit i just realised, that's some sort of bird smiley
16:41:04 <Fiora> I like the whole branch prediction hash table thing
16:41:35 <kmc> brunch prediction
16:41:59 <kmc> Fiora: what's that?
16:42:25 <Fiora> branch prediction is one of the things that companies are really secretive about nowadays so I don't know much but
16:42:57 <Fiora> from what I remember hearing, modern intel chips keep a sort of hash table based on the location of the branch, some history information like the call stack, and so on
16:43:09 <boily> kmc: P(brunch) ~ Pois(7)
16:43:46 <kmc> fish for brunch
16:44:16 <Fiora> so like I guess it effectively contains the X thousand most common <branch/history/call stack> combinations or whatevers
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16:44:34 <elliott> so how many operating systems are we running at any given time
16:44:40 <elliott> since evidently CPUs have one now
16:44:53 <elliott> and a lot of VMs basically count, especially ones with userspace threading
16:45:06 <kmc> browsers are operating systems
16:45:15 <elliott> though you can argue that falls under VM
16:45:28 <elliott> but I guess the JS operating system they have is almost a separate thing to the whole multiple processes thing they do
16:46:33 <kmc> and of course only the tragically un-hip use software without virtualization
16:46:43 <kmc> so you have a VM hypervisor in there too
16:46:52 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc are you going to start complaining about other people again...
16:47:00 <Fiora> I'm running some free android emulator thing to play android games <.<
16:47:19 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: are you going to start complaining about me too
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16:48:47 <elliott> helps towards my gda of 10 complaints / day
16:49:23 <boily> you can approximate kmc's brunches and complaints by a skellam distribution.
16:50:52 <quintopia> brunch sounds excellent. i haven't eaten today
16:52:20 * boily runs to the nearest nutritionist grave to strap a dynamo to it
16:54:00 <elliott> kmc: can you upgrade esolangs.org's mediawiki installation for me.
16:54:09 <quintopia> what do nutritionists have to say about brunch
16:54:39 <kmc> no elliott
16:55:22 <elliott> can you answer that question differently
16:56:21 <boily> quintopia: that's the point, I don't know. I need a simple way to measure the nutritio-zombo-electromagnetic force of a random brunch.
16:56:35 <kmc> "Benedict XVI to Keep His Name and Become Pope Emeritus"
16:57:10 <ais523> apparently this is what happens if the pope resigns
16:57:23 <quintopia> boily: are you sure you aren't measuring a brunch of convenience?
16:57:46 <boily> quintopia: dunno. lunchtime. be back in an hour or so...
16:57:51 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: haha, the weather forecaster on TV just brought up a weather map with only two temperatures showing: 3 in the midlands, and 17 in the scottish highlands
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16:58:28 <ais523> apparently England doesn't even get to console itself with "at least Scotland's weather is even worse" any more
16:59:56 <elliott> ais523: OTOH, Scotland's everything else is worse
17:00:15 <ais523> doesn't it have a better education system?
17:00:37 <Taneb> Scotland's education system is like Harry Potter's
17:01:33 <ais523> Taneb: there are many ways to interpret that analogy, but I can't make any of them work
17:02:31 <Taneb> ais523, high school until age of 17 instead of 18
17:03:30 <ais523> I didn't even know that was true about Harry Potter
17:03:36 <ais523> it's not the most obvious detail of the books
17:05:38 <Phantom_Hoover> we do actually get taught maths and english in scottish schools, so that's different
17:06:24 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: we don't get taught scottish in english schools
17:07:33 <Taneb> We do get taught magic, though
17:08:12 <ais523> Taneb: who's "we" here?
17:08:40 <Taneb> Hexham isn't quite north enough to be in Scotland
17:08:45 * ais523 wonders when the last time an english/scottish flamewar happened
17:09:01 <ais523> Taneb: yeah, I know, but I was wondering if it was "all northeners" or some concept like that
17:09:07 <Phantom_Hoover> i remember there being a really pointless edit war on wikipedia
17:09:16 <ais523> hmm⦠we should find someone here from London, so we can mock them
17:09:18 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that happens a lot
17:09:23 <Phantom_Hoover> over how ireland was referred to in the article 'rock pool life of the british isles'
17:09:48 <ais523> was this the "british and irish isles" thing, or something else?
17:09:58 <Phantom_Hoover> i made a really excellent pun based on a christy moore song about it but i don't think anyone truly appreciated it
17:10:40 <Taneb> Was it referred to as "The land of the bloody catholic splitters"?
17:10:51 <Taneb> Because I could see why that would be controversial
17:10:57 <Taneb> It leaves out Northern Ireland
17:12:15 <Phantom_Hoover> (also apparently at least one of the more important iras was marxist! i find this strangely interesting)
17:12:21 <elliott> ais523: using the unicode one makes you impossible to take seriously, btw
17:12:35 <ais523> elliott: I do it out of habit
17:12:45 <ais523> even when it breaks people's backends that don't understand non-ASCII encodings
17:12:48 <elliott> also being ais523 makes you impossible to take seriously
17:12:59 <Phantom_Hoover> you know the logs still show you using unicode ellipses elliott
17:13:08 <ais523> on the rare occasions I use Windows, I end up turning caps lock on a lot by mistake
17:13:08 <kmc> β¦...β¦...β¦...β¦...β¦...β¦...
17:13:16 <ais523> and off almost as often, although mostly intentionally
17:13:37 <ais523> elliott: are you using a fixed-width font?
17:14:00 <Taneb> elliott, just out of curiosity, are you connected to Clan El[l]iot[t] at all?
17:14:18 <Taneb> elliott, research your family tree!
17:14:38 <ais523> Taneb: what regex-like format uses [] to mean "maybe what's in the square brackets"?
17:14:46 <elliott> Taneb: I hear there's a haskell program for that
17:14:49 <Phantom_Hoover> i like how the wp article on clan elliott can't make its mind up about how to spell it
17:14:51 <Taneb> ais523, when did I say it's regex
17:15:06 <ais523> Taneb: you didn't, and I don't expect it to be, I said "regex-like" for a reason
17:17:46 <Phantom_Hoover> i also like how there's apparently a newcastleton in the borders
17:17:58 <Taneb> Yeah, I think I've been there
17:18:02 <Taneb> There isn't much there
17:19:12 <ais523> Taneb: now I'm imagining a field with a few stones in it
17:19:49 <Taneb> Apparently it's new (castleton), not newcastle (ton)
17:20:36 <Phantom_Hoover> "The Elliotts, with the Armstrongs, were the most troublesome of the great Scottish Border families in the Middle Ages."
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17:35:52 <ais523> btw, I think I got into an argument with an Apple fanboy on rgrn, of all places
17:36:28 <ais523> I've mostly stopped now, when their argument reached the level of "there's no such thing as a free development environment because you still have to buy a computer to run it on2
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17:53:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5219
17:53:30 <Gregor> What I love is that the pastelog vertical includes log lines with horizontal in them.
17:53:55 <Gregor> (FYI, it probably timed out)
17:54:00 <Jafet> ais: I, too, would be agitated if I spent $2000 on a computer to play slaves to armok
17:54:33 <coppro> Gregor: any way to avoid that?
17:54:47 <Jafet> `run file bin/pastelog
17:54:48 <HackEgo> bin/pastelog: POSIX shell script text executable
17:54:52 <Gregor> I could up the timeout limit X-D
17:54:55 <HackEgo> β#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ \ pasterandom() { \ if [ "$1" -gt 150 ]; then \ echo "No." \ exit \ fi \ for i in $(seq "$1"); do \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ done | paste \ } \ \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \
17:55:16 <Jafet> Then what, fungot?
17:55:17 <fungot> Jafet: fnord ' who's me?' and actually read that ' watcom'
17:55:25 <Jafet> I don't think that's how it goes.
17:58:41 <Gregor> Was "Then what, fungot" supposed to rhyme?
17:58:42 <fungot> Gregor: there's just common standards. they do not end up coding bash/ python background. the updates rarely took more than a power failure.
17:58:55 <coppro> why isn't it just grep?
17:59:12 <Gregor> Don't ask me, I didn't write it.
17:59:16 <Gregor> That's the beauty of HackBot.
17:59:23 <coppro> how do I write a new script again?
18:00:39 <Jafet> `run timeout 3 echo ':-)'
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18:01:11 <Gregor> Jafet: The timeout is 30 seconds.
18:01:11 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: quotation marks are hard
18:01:25 <Gregor> coppro: So pastebin it and `fetch
18:01:38 <HackEgo> cat: bin/fetch: No such file or directory
18:01:47 <Jafet> `run sed -i... -e 's/grep/timeout 25 grep/' bin/pastelog
18:01:57 <Gregor> Jafet: lol, nice of you.
18:02:08 <Jafet> `pastelog horizontal
18:02:30 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28302
18:02:39 <coppro> Gregor: how does `fetch work?
18:02:45 <Gregor> coppro: It fetches a URL.
18:02:47 <coppro> filename url? other way around?
18:02:57 <Gregor> Just URL, it'll write it to whatever name it feels is appropriate.
18:03:01 <coppro> `fetch http://pastebin.com/dkVb20VL
18:03:01 <Gregor> You have to Unix it into place after that.
18:03:10 <HackEgo> 2013-02-26 18:03:09 URL:http://pastebin.com/dkVb20VL [12720] -> "dkVb20VL" [1]
18:03:22 <HackEgo> β<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
18:03:25 <elliott> I wonder if you can exploit the name it picks
18:03:44 <Jafet> `rm bin/pastelog...
18:03:49 <Gregor> elliott: Idonno, can you make wget choose to name a file ../../../../etc/passwd or something?
18:03:56 <elliott> Gregor: yeah that's what I'm wondering
18:04:05 <elliott> coppro: that script is a bad idea btw
18:04:09 <Jafet> If wget fetches one file, it uses the basename
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18:04:14 <elliott> ls /var/irclogs/_esoteric to see one reason why
18:04:18 <Jafet> (unless you're dumb enough to tell it not to)
18:04:22 <coppro> `ls /var/irclogs/_esoteric
18:04:23 <HackEgo> 2003-01-18-raw.txt \ 2003-01-18.txt \ 2003-01-19-raw.txt \ 2003-01-19.txt \ 2003-01-20-raw.txt \ 2003-01-20.txt \ 2003-01-21-raw.txt \ 2003-01-21.txt \ 2003-01-22-raw.txt \ 2003-01-22.txt \ 2003-01-23-raw.txt \ 2003-01-23.txt \ 2003-01-24-raw.txt \ 2003-01-24.txt \ 2003-01-25-raw.txt \ 2003-01-25.txt \ 2003-01-26-raw.txt \ 2003-01-26.txt \ 2003-01-
18:04:38 <HackEgo> β#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ \ pasterandom() { \ if [ "$1" -gt 150 ]; then \ echo "No." \ exit \ fi \ for i in $(seq "$1"); do \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ done | paste \ } \ \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \
18:04:44 <coppro> why the fuck is shuf there?
18:04:46 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastelogs
18:04:53 <elliott> well if you read the script you will see
18:05:03 <Jafet> `run diff -u bin/pastelog{,s}
18:05:05 <HackEgo> β--- bin/pastelog2013-02-26 18:01:52.000000000 +0000 \ +++ bin/pastelogs2013-02-13 16:28:35.000000000 +0000 \ @@ -16,7 +16,7 @@ \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ pasterandom "$1" \ else \ - lines=$(timeout 25 grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | head -n 301) \ + lines=$(grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt
18:05:10 <elliott> well read more closely then
18:05:11 <cuttlefish> Your divination: "Humbling" to "Limping"
18:05:15 <elliott> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastelogs
18:05:23 <coppro> why the script does anything that is not grepping the logs
18:06:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2874
18:07:03 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14865
18:07:34 <elliott> well what is unixy is just using grep yourself
18:07:36 <elliott> it is a convenience script
18:09:28 <Jafet> `run diff --suppress-common-lines bin/pastelog{,s}
18:09:33 <HackEgo> 19c19 \ < lines=$(timeout 25 grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | head -n 301) \ --- \ > lines=$(grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | head -n 301)
18:09:47 <elliott> what, they're not symlinked?
18:10:06 <Jafet> `run rm bin/pastelogs && ln -s pastelog bin/pastelogs
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18:17:53 <mroman> if the probability of an event A to occur is p, then the probability of it occuring n-times in a row decreases
18:18:08 <mroman> however, as in the above case: If the probability of event A is zero
18:18:30 <mroman> does that mean that it appearing once is as much likely as it appearing 1mio. times in a row?
18:18:36 <mroman> Or is that also wrong?
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18:19:19 <Gregor> That's true, but you missed the other corner case: If the probability of an event A occurring (within some timespan) is 100%, then the probability of it occurring n times in a row does not decrease, it's also 100%.
18:19:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, well it does decrease if you use the non-strict definition
18:20:00 <mroman> Gregor: Yes, but that edgecase seems more natural.
18:20:26 <mroman> You would assume that something very unlikely to happen twice in a row would be even less unlikely
18:20:51 <tswett> I guess if you define "as likely" as meaning "having the same probability", then yeah.
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18:21:07 <tswett> Though I wouldn't quite assume that it wouldn't be even less likely for the event to happen twice in a row.
18:21:10 <Gregor> That assumes, by the way, that P is independent.
18:21:26 <elliott> probability 0 is not impossible Phantom_Hoover
18:21:28 <Gregor> i.e., there are some events which are more probable to happen twice than once.
18:21:33 <tswett> If an event is impossible, then the occurrence of the event twice in a row isn't double impossible. It's just plain impossible.
18:21:45 <mroman> I'm aware that p = 0 does not mean it's impossible.
18:21:54 <elliott> that's why i said Phantom_Hoover
18:22:02 <mroman> but I thought the probability of all events should be zero
18:22:14 <Gregor> Oh dear, are we playing with infinitesimals >_>
18:22:20 <mroman> but sum_{i=0)^{infinity}(1/infinity) is not 1
18:22:29 <mroman> not to the math I know.
18:22:41 <mroman> That's the actual confusing part.
18:23:18 <mroman> if you ignore the wrong bracket ;)
18:23:34 <Bike> imo cauchy distribution
18:23:38 <elliott> it's not really latex in that you don't want / or infinity there
18:23:53 <Bike> best distribution
18:23:58 <tswett> Yeah, "infinity" doesn't have one single definition.
18:23:59 <Phantom_Hoover> 1/infinity isn't well-defined in the context you're probably thinking of
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18:24:27 <tswett> I guess it's *usually* defined as that one element of the extended real numbers.
18:24:44 <Phantom_Hoover> certainly you can say sum_0^n 1/n approaches 1 as n goes to infinity
18:24:45 <tswett> In which case 1/infinity is 0, and so the sum from 0 to infinity of 1/infinity is also 0.
18:24:59 <tswett> You could also do that, in which case you'd end up with 1.
18:26:02 <tswett> Let elliott's number = 0. Let elliott's number = 1. By symmetry of equality, 0 = elliott's number. By transitivity of equality, 0 = 1.
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18:26:26 <Phantom_Hoover> the horde of angry mathematicians will have a harder time lynching you
18:28:01 <Phantom_Hoover> well i mean if they actually find you they can just wring your pale, stick-like english neck without much trouble
18:28:38 <Gregor> We could just destroy the British isles *shrugs*
18:29:27 <elliott> I like the implication that scots aren't pale.
18:30:43 <ais523> elliott: but they stay out in it several hundred percent of the time
18:31:05 <ais523> just to make their insults slightly more effective
18:31:21 <elliott> ais523: that is just because they do not have houses.
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18:31:56 <ais523> don't be silly, who'd go without a house just to make their insults slightly more effective?
18:32:00 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover's explanation is much better
18:32:06 <elliott> ais523: are you suggesting Scots are rational.
18:32:20 <ais523> elliott: are you suggesting they're transcendental?
18:32:24 <elliott> also I never said it was voluntary!
18:32:36 <elliott> could *you* build a house in the wasteland that is Scotland?
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18:33:21 <Phantom_Hoover> so tell me elliott how did that whole harrying of the north thing work out for you guys
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18:34:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: you can point to the past all you like if it helps distract you from how awful scotland is in the present
18:35:25 <Gregor> It's adorable when North Britain and South Britain argue. *sips high fructose corn syrup directly from the jug*
18:35:47 <nooga_> at least we don't have to eat haggis
18:35:48 <Phantom_Hoover> so elliott how many leading figures in functional programming live in northumberland then
18:35:54 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: um poland is at least 50x better than scotland
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18:36:24 <Phantom_Hoover> oh, we'll just have to make do with conor mcbride and edwin brady then
18:36:31 <ais523> Gregor: this is more north england versus scotland
18:36:36 <ais523> I'm just chipping in with absurd comments
18:36:43 <Phantom_Hoover> still, we're all jealous of the newcastle haskell compiler
18:36:50 <elliott> nooga_: he is in northumberland?
18:37:07 <nooga_> ummm.... no, Edinburgh
18:37:20 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: just because they're on a humanitarian mission to educate scotland's poor, deprived youth doesn't mean you can hold them up as examples
18:37:21 <Gregor> ais523: The joke was that Americans don't understand British geography.
18:37:23 <ais523> the edinburgh haskell compiler sucks
18:37:40 <ais523> Gregor: those people would have said England, though, not Britain
18:37:49 <Phantom_Hoover> oh and we really wish we'd come up with lancaster prolog
18:37:52 <ais523> the joke doesn't work if you acknowledge there's a difference
18:38:12 <Gregor> Would it help if I said "Britland"?
18:38:13 <nooga_> I did something dangerous when in Edinburgh
18:38:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: do you... even know Prolog.
18:38:18 <Phantom_Hoover> (i couldn't keep focusing it on northumberland because i ran out of significant places in northumberland)
18:38:33 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, remember that it class i bitched about endlessly back when i first joined
18:38:44 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: there's Morpeth
18:38:46 <elliott> ph all i remember about you is a continuous stream of complaints
18:38:49 <elliott> how can I remember them all
18:38:55 <elliott> ais523: erm... let's not get into Morpeth
18:38:57 <nooga_> i said that i'm in england when i was in scotland
18:39:04 <ais523> elliott: is it that bad?
18:39:07 <Phantom_Hoover> well anyway after we finished with javascript on ie5 for mac we moved on to prolog
18:39:17 <ais523> I only know about Northumberland because of BlogNomic
18:39:23 <elliott> ais523: I know nothing about Morpeth but I think it was pretty funny to say that anyway
18:39:25 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think i'll ever again see such depths of non-understanding
18:39:44 <ais523> OK, so Morpeth's distinguishing feature is that people pretend to know something about it
18:39:58 <ais523> monads are like Morpeth
18:40:12 <elliott> I love morpeth, it is so easy
18:40:31 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: my department teaches prolog, to second years I think
18:40:44 <ais523> some people choose it because it isn't ocaml, and then are disappointed to find it has lists
18:40:44 <elliott> so have the americans had their election or not
18:41:06 <ais523> it's obama's second term, I Think
18:41:16 <ais523> I'm trying to remember who he beat
18:41:18 <elliott> who did he actually run against again
18:41:27 <nooga_> who codes ocaml anyway
18:41:38 * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election
18:41:39 <elliott> `addquote <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: my department teaches prolog, to second years I think <ais523> some people choose it because it isn't ocaml, and then are disappointed to find it has lists
18:41:42 <HackEgo> 971) <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: my department teaches prolog, to second years I think <ais523> some people choose it because it isn't ocaml, and then are disappointed to find it has lists
18:42:02 <ais523> elliott: actually I was pretty happy with the result
18:42:13 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: haha :)
18:42:19 <elliott> ais523: that is just more evidence you're not human
18:42:38 * ais523 wonders how many foreigners will get the joke
18:42:47 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
18:42:59 <elliott> `addquote * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, the lib dems
18:43:02 <HackEgo> 972) * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, the lib dems
18:43:08 <Gregor> * ais523 challenges the americans here to remember who lost in the most recent UK general election // you could challenge me to remember who WON in the most recent UK general election, I'd do no better.
18:43:10 <elliott> that way we will get a good amount of data on who gets it or not over time
18:43:19 <ais523> actually I can't even remember who the leader of Labour is
18:43:27 <ais523> because both the possibilities have similar names and look identical
18:43:42 <ais523> wow, I guessed the wrong one as well
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18:43:48 <ais523> mroman: of /this/ conversation?
18:43:49 <mroman> Let me design a brainfuck cpu
18:43:53 <Gregor> If my name was Ed Centipede, I'd run for public office.
18:44:04 <ais523> Gregor: it's not his actual name, unfortunately
18:44:23 -!- aloril has joined.
18:44:47 -!- Gregor has set topic: #esoteric welcomes its new prime minister, Ed "Brainfuck Derivative" Centipede | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
18:44:48 <elliott> which one did ais523 guess?
18:44:57 <ais523> elliott: david centipede
18:45:18 <mroman> That is, how much brainfucky it can be with 256 Byte of RAM
18:45:57 <ais523> mroman: just make the bytes infinitely large
18:46:39 <ais523> also, what hardware architecture are you targeting to make this CPU? even small FPGAs have more than 256 bytes of RAM
18:46:56 <ais523> the ones that have RAM have RAM
18:47:06 <ais523> some of them have memory where you sort-of decide how random the access is
18:48:47 <tswett> We need a language in which each memory cell holds a map N -> {0,1}, interpreted as the decimal expansion of a number that is allowed to be infinite on the left.
18:49:14 <tswett> And where every possible memory cell value is the address of a memory cell.
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18:49:39 <Phantom_Hoover> i note that elliott deftly steered the discussion away from how superior scotland is
18:49:55 <tswett> And you're allowed to perform an infinite loop in one step, as long as it never overwrites a 1 with a 0.
18:50:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it just gets so sad hearing a scot try to pretend he's alright
18:50:04 <elliott> I can only handle so much at a time
18:50:11 <tswett> Maybe you're just never allowed to overwrite a 1 with a 0 ever.
18:51:18 <Phantom_Hoover> 'pretend he's alright' man you english are terrible at your own language
18:52:06 <Phantom_Hoover> i guess that's why all the greatest writers in the english language were scots
18:52:32 <elliott> ph my english was perfectly fine
18:55:22 * ais523 tries to work out if this is technically racism
18:55:23 <elliott> ais523: I'm going to have to demand you kick Phantom_Hoover.
18:55:23 <Bike> wouldn't a better insult be "well the french gave it to you" or something
18:55:38 <ais523> Bike: but I like the French
18:55:46 <elliott> more evidence ais523 isn't human
18:55:49 <ais523> hmm⦠I think I potentially like far too many people
18:56:18 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: stealing your jokes from americans of all people
18:56:25 <elliott> also known as: the least funny people in the universe
18:56:34 <ais523> elliott: the americans have humor, not humour
18:56:47 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: luxembourg's in a UTC-8 timezone?
18:57:11 <elliott> it's like american samoa I guess
18:57:25 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, well the americans still saved your asses in world war 2!!
18:57:36 <Bike> As did the Luxembourgish, I might add.
18:57:41 * boily feels safe in his halfway-existing Canada
18:57:48 <elliott> I guess this is what happens when Conor McBride has to teach you history because you don't have any other teachers
18:57:54 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I had to check your nationality when you said that
18:58:06 <elliott> Bike: you mean the Luxembourgeoisie
18:58:15 <elliott> AND WITH THAT PUN I HAVE WON THE ARGUMENT
18:58:23 <Bike> i like how ais checked my presented timezome to see where i was
18:58:38 <ais523> Bike: the great thing is, I did that /before/ Phantom_Hoover said you were from Luxembourg
18:58:38 <elliott> guys come on that was amazing
18:58:47 <Bike> 9/10 would be luxembourgianisie again
18:58:57 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: `? boily
18:59:06 <FreeFull> We should invent a programming language that consists entirely of the nicks of people in here
18:59:12 <FreeFull> And as people join and part the language changes
18:59:12 <ais523> which is reasonable for somewhere that doesn't exist that's in vaguely the same location as Canada
18:59:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: same person.
18:59:23 <HackEgo> boily is Canadian or something. We are not sure about Canada's existence.
18:59:32 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
18:59:36 <boily> there. indubitable proof that I'm canadian.
18:59:36 <ais523> boily: I think we've established that Ottawa exists
18:59:42 <Phantom_Hoover> it's quite surprising that with our one teacher we still have an education system which isn't hopelessly broken
18:59:43 <ais523> but we're less clear on the rest of Canada
18:59:52 <boily> ais523: when did that happen?
19:00:13 <ais523> boily: quite recently, but I forget exactly when
19:01:37 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_Kingdom
19:01:39 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: more teachers just means more arguments over how to teach.
19:02:10 <Bike> by orangemen or of orangemen or wait i don't care
19:02:29 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined.
19:02:34 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that's not really something to like, if those massacres hadn't happened there'd have been fewer massacres
19:02:41 <ais523> and massacres are generally considered a bad thing
19:02:53 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523 are you doing the whole overly literal thing again
19:03:07 <ais523> hmm, it starts in 61 AD
19:03:15 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that's not really being overly literal, it's something else
19:03:18 <Bike> huh there are two different violent orangemen organizations there but they both use a red hand
19:03:21 <ais523> I interpreted the words exactly as you mean them
19:03:27 <ais523> I just inferred something different from the sentence
19:03:41 <Phantom_Hoover> there are at least 3 different versions of any given organisation
19:03:53 -!- nooga has joined.
19:04:04 <Bike> the ira should use a red foot to fit in
19:04:08 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:04:32 <ais523> this isn't something to joke about, seriously
19:04:46 <nooga> i think i will attempt to write a roguelike in a purely functional manner
19:05:05 <Phantom_Hoover> i am almost certain you have ignored jokes about more serious matters in the past, ais, so don't start getting all moral
19:05:06 <ais523> luckily, you're probably safe because I've forgotten what that command is that kicks everyone else from the channel, clears all the channel modes, sets it invite-only, and invites you
19:05:19 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I'm kind-of an oblivious person
19:05:27 <ais523> whether I start getting all moral really depends on how much attention I'm paying
19:05:39 <Sgeo_> Does using the State monad count as purely functional? Sure, all the ... code is, but the style that do allows, it looks imperative even if it's all functional inside
19:05:46 <ais523> and not really what the joke is about
19:06:30 <Sgeo_> Not really, although seems like the sort of thing kmc would rant about
19:06:44 <nooga> well, you have to output state once in a while, but all functions just take the state and return a new one
19:06:48 <Sgeo_> I'm sure I remember discussions along this line of thought before, at least reading such discussions
19:06:56 <ais523> Sgeo_: "C is a purely functional language"
19:07:09 * Fiora imagines a cardboard box propped up by a stick with a pile of monads inside
19:07:10 <ais523> also, Unlambda is a purely functional language, although it accomplishes that by redefining "purely functional"
19:07:42 <ais523> I tried to add closures to INTERCAL once (just in the "mental specification" stage, I didn't write any code)
19:07:47 <elliott> Fiora: that is actually what Haskell is.
19:07:48 <Bike> considering words and phrases as meaning things is the path to ruin
19:08:04 <Gregor> C is a purely functional language. It really does function. As a language.
19:08:21 <FreeFull> Lisp is an imperative language because it does stuff
19:08:37 <Bike> lisp is an imperative language because it was designed by Kant
19:08:52 <elliott> I like how we successfully transitioned from Irish massacres to functional programming in ~7 messages
19:09:27 <ais523> "I asked an electronic engineer whether a dog had Buddha-nature. His answer was 'high-impedance'. Now I just have more questions."
19:09:37 <Bike> well it's not like i'm going to keep joking about a period of history where lots of people died for bad reasons if it's actually going to anger someone
19:10:01 <elliott> wait I thought the idea of #esoteric was to anger ais523 as much as possible, all the time
19:10:14 <elliott> I... have been thoroughly mislead
19:10:16 <Bike> i'm a newbie here elliott
19:10:21 <ais523> elliott: intentionally angering ops is usually a bad idea
19:10:35 <elliott> ais523: well #esoteric is all about bad ideas
19:10:41 <Bike> ALSO: has anyone yet died over arguments about what "purely functional" means
19:10:42 <ais523> hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way
19:11:03 <ais523> I choose to misinterpret "over" as "directly above" because it's a more interesting question that way
19:11:19 <ais523> how often do arguments about pure functionality happen? how often is it on the lower floor of a building
19:11:25 <ais523> presumably it'd have to be a coincidence
19:11:32 <ais523> but it seems like a coincidence that could plausibly happen
19:11:46 <elliott> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/25/aaron-swartz-white-house-taxpayer-funded-wish_n_2758744.html whoah (sorry for huffpo link)
19:11:47 <boily> traditional sumo rings are made with packed purely functional dirt.
19:12:03 <doesthiswork> `I've heard a good argument that over meaning ab
19:12:04 <HackEgo> β/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: I've: not found
19:12:42 <Bike> ais523: well how often do people die in buildings where people argue about programming
19:12:57 <Bike> elliott: sweet
19:12:58 <elliott> well what if it is like a university
19:13:07 <doesthiswork> I've heard a good argument that over meaning about is descended from listener's reanalysis of over uses to mean above.
19:13:09 <ais523> yeah, a university seems like a likely option
19:13:13 <ais523> or a hotel that's hosting a conference
19:13:20 <elliott> right a big hotel is a good candidate
19:14:25 <Bike> doesthiswork: you should put some quotation marks in that sentence in order to make it readable
19:15:14 <mroman> It'd be a *real* Brainfuck CPU
19:16:27 <ais523> mroman: you mean an ASIC?
19:16:38 <ais523> they're generated from the same descriptions as FPGAs
19:16:43 <ais523> so you may as well use one for prototyping
19:16:49 <nooga> Gabe Newell: "The programmers of tomorrow are the wizards of the future. You know, you're gonna look like you have magic powers compared to everybody else."
19:16:50 <ais523> it's hundreds of thousands of dollars cheaper
19:16:58 <mroman> for developing one I would use an FPGA
19:18:25 <elliott> Gregor: you are correct re: salt and vinegar pringles
19:18:49 <ais523> I think FPGAs are used for development even by major companies
19:19:07 <ais523> elliott: /me wonders what opinions or facts about salt and vinegar pringles might plausibly wonder verification
19:19:10 <Gregor> elliott: Glad you agree.
19:19:20 <elliott> ais523: they're created by aliens to destroy the universe
19:19:25 <elliott> do intel test their new x86 chips on fpgas
19:19:39 <Gregor> ais523: I observed that salt and vinegar Pringles are surprisingly good, having the ideal mix of potato and vinegar.
19:19:39 <elliott> it seems implausible to me but then what do they do
19:19:39 <boily> I'll stay with my ketchup flavour.
19:19:39 <ais523> elliott: I don't know; I know some CPUs are
19:19:42 <ais523> but I'm not sure if that's true for very high-end CPUs
19:19:48 <elliott> ketchup flavour crisps are weird
19:19:48 <ais523> due to requiring a prohibitively expensive CPU
19:19:50 <Gregor> (Most salt and vinegar chips are more like vinegar and vinegar chips)
19:19:51 <ais523> for low-end ones, it makes sense
19:20:08 <elliott> Gregor: well, I wasn't so much agreeing
19:20:17 <elliott> you stated they fnarfed well but I have no sense of fnarf
19:20:25 <Fiora> from what I remember a lot of chips get simulated on really huge FPGA arrays, like, dozens or more
19:20:33 <ais523> Fiora: that would make sense
19:20:33 <boily> elliott: and? they taste good.
19:20:43 <ais523> although just wiring those together would be awkward
19:20:43 <Fiora> like I remember hearing that a prototype cortex A9 (which was a pretty small chip) was a cube of FPGAs hooked up to an SD card for cache
19:20:47 <Fiora> it ran at like 500khz
19:20:48 <ais523> you'd probably need to run them underclocked
19:20:51 <Bike> fuck i read "chips" as meaning pringles
19:20:53 <ais523> due to the length of the connecting wires
19:20:55 <elliott> Fiora: I'm imagining a room filled with FPGA s
19:20:59 <ais523> yeah, 500kHz sounds about right
19:21:00 <elliott> like old gigantic computers
19:21:00 <Fiora> oh yeah, they'd probably run like, 10000x slower
19:21:07 <Fiora> I think there's actually companies that sell boards of these
19:21:10 <kmc> i'm told nvidia has a refrigerator size box of FPGAs for prototyping graphics cards
19:21:17 <kmc> costs a few megabucks
19:21:27 <ais523> Bike: I was considering misreading that intentionally, but accidental is better
19:21:35 <Bike> did y'all see nvidia's GTC video with water reflections and shit
19:21:42 <elliott> unfortunately the sentence makes no sense with that reading
19:21:51 <kmc> Bike: no, link?
19:22:08 <ais523> shit sounds like a weird thing to simulate with a graphics card
19:22:19 <ais523> "look at all these pretty water reflections, also here is some shit"
19:22:33 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um6rMjwSNdU#t=255s
19:22:36 * impomatic has a refrigerator size box of real CPUs :-)
19:22:43 <Bike> I also like the end bit of his
19:23:01 <Bike> where he's like "we can dump billions of $ into R&D for games. now what if we used the products for something remotely useful?"
19:23:17 <ais523> Bike: we do that at our university
19:23:22 <ais523> I used to teach the course but don't any more
19:23:32 <Bike> the course on what
19:23:38 <Bike> taking money from games?
19:23:42 <elliott> doing remotely useful things
19:23:45 <elliott> ais523 isn't very good at it
19:23:48 <elliott> that's why he doesn't teach the course any more
19:23:49 <quintopia> did y'all see the PS3 demo of Kara. a nice retake on the classic accidental-singularity story
19:23:52 <ais523> it looks really incongruous seeing a technician going around a lab full of computers in a university
19:23:55 <ais523> with high-end gaming GPUs
19:24:07 <Bike> yeah, that's kind of what he's saying, that GPUs are pretty useful otherwise
19:24:10 <ais523> in their original packaging, which is clearly aimed at gamers
19:24:18 <Bike> i mean, after showing off rendering crystalware getting shot in realtime
19:24:20 <ais523> it was the course on, mostly, GPU programming
19:25:19 <quintopia> or, well, accidental-self-awareness i should say
19:25:19 <Bike> oh, so like OpenCL or whatever?
19:25:19 <Fiora> http://hitechglobal.com/Boards/MultiFPGA.htm oh I think I found one
19:25:19 <ais523> Bike: yeah, we were using CUDA but OpenCL is the same sort of thing
19:27:11 <Bike> quintopia: 'and i am entirely at your disposal as a sexual partner' great
19:27:31 <Bike> kmc: cool, right?
19:30:57 -!- monqy has joined.
19:32:14 <Bike> oh, the kara thing
19:32:17 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhoYLp8CtXI
19:33:10 -!- linuxnewb2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
19:33:45 <Bike> yeah it's fine
19:33:51 <Bike> just a short film
19:36:16 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined.
19:36:19 -!- linuxnewb2 has joined.
19:37:40 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
19:40:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
19:40:45 <lambdabot> AnotherTest: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:41:05 <olsner> hmm, leonard nemoy ends all his tweets with "LLAP"
19:41:42 <AnotherTest> mroman: Alright, thanks. I'll do that once I got the interpreter working...
19:41:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:43:49 <olsner> I wonder if the twitter form of that should be #livelong #prosper
19:44:28 <ais523> you'd only want one hashtag, really
19:44:40 <ais523> btw, are hashtags are inspired by IRC channels?
19:44:45 <ais523> they have asiilar purpose
19:45:46 <AnotherTest> Hashtags are like macro's in C++: don't use them
19:46:18 * ais523 searches #define on Twitter
19:46:35 <ais523> why does it not have a search page
19:46:41 <ais523> its homepage is a login screen
19:46:42 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:46:55 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined.
19:47:10 <tswett> ais523: the Wikipedia article implies that htey are.
19:47:15 <AnotherTest> #if probably has a higher chance of existing than #define
19:47:42 <ais523> AnotherTest: yeah but #define does macros
19:48:24 <AnotherTest> ais523: #if checks if a macro is defined? That's using macros too right?
19:48:40 <ais523> AnotherTest: no, #ifdef does that
19:48:45 -!- sebbu has joined.
19:48:49 <boily> #pragmas all the way down!
19:48:51 <tswett> ":info:build ld:ld : warningwarning: directory '/lib' following -L not: directory '/ found"
19:48:51 <ais523> #if checks the truth value of a boolean expression
19:49:06 <ais523> tswett: using unbuffered output?
19:49:09 <tswett> I hate it when ld ld gives warningwarnings.
19:49:16 <tswett> ais523: I have no idea.
19:49:31 <tswett> I guess that sounds right.
19:49:46 <ais523> what were the original interleaved messages?
19:53:14 -!- ogrom has joined.
20:01:55 <boily> you need a friend (preferably a good one, but not too good), a tennis racket, and a few pints of kerosene.
20:02:02 -!- Taneb has joined.
20:07:35 <quintopia> boily: am i your friend (good, but not too good)?
20:09:36 <boily> quintopia: you are.
20:10:17 <ais523> is kerosene the same thing in the US as it is in the UK?
20:11:12 <boily> probably. for me it's what goes in airplanes.
20:11:23 <olsner> apparently kerosene is the american term, according to wikipedia you might call it paraffin
20:11:24 <quintopia> ais523: it is the most-efficient oil derivative in terms of power
20:12:50 <olsner> in swedish it's "fotogen"
20:14:28 <ais523> something that generates photos?
20:14:38 <quintopia> that looks like something that would mean "generating light"
20:15:05 <ais523> paraffin lamps used to be common
20:15:14 <olsner> it could be swedish for the photo gene, but I think it comes from its use in lamps
20:16:03 <boily> paraffin means that cheap stuff used in cheap chocolate.
20:16:13 <quintopia> and...who was it? carnegie was steel, vanderbilt was trains, ....damn i'm so bad at history
20:16:45 <olsner> cheap chocolate is made from kerosene?
20:17:04 <quintopia> rockefeller is responsible for kerosene's use in lamps
20:18:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
20:18:54 <boily> olsner: http://homecooking.about.com/od/cookingfaqs/f/faqparaffin.htm
20:19:55 <olsner> the toxicity section for kerosene is really disappointing though
20:20:15 <olsner> ingestion is "harmful or fatal", end of story
20:20:25 <boily> meh. disappointing indeed.
20:20:29 <ais523> olsner: probably not enough people have tried to have reliable data
20:20:56 <boily> where is my writhing in furious agony? toxic substances nowadays...
20:21:24 <ais523> hmm⦠if that's the case, I'm sort-of glad we don't have reliable data
20:22:34 <quintopia> all we have to do is build a time machine and go back in time to the 1930s and tell Goebbels and Goering that we really need that data
20:22:57 <quintopia> really easy...except the first part
20:23:03 <elliott> finally, "sure" and "time travel", together in the same paragraph
20:23:04 <olsner> hmm, where's oklopol when we need him to sample hydrocarbons
20:23:19 <ais523> olsner: hopefully not where you can reach him
20:23:30 <ais523> oklopol is too valuable to be wasted on hydrocarbon experiments
20:23:43 <quintopia> IT'S PERFECTLY SAFE. IT'S MADE FROM THE SAME STUFF YOUR CELLS ARE MADE FROM.
20:24:03 <HackEgo> 352) <oklofok> what would you ever need petrol for <oklofok> newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good \ 353) [on petrol] <ais523> oklofok: it's actually poisonous, so I advise against drinking it <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, also contains benzene, my carcinogen of choice.
20:24:39 <HackEgo> 2007-09-24.txt:09:47:50: <immibis> why are you making a decaf espresso orange juice with an infinite number of sugars in a petrol tanker with last year's milk for #arianne?
20:24:55 <ais523> we should `pastlog more often :)
20:25:03 <impomatic> A guy around here keeps getting fined for drinking petrol straight from the pump.
20:25:07 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
20:25:24 <quintopia> ais523: does it search the logs in chronological order to find the oldest reference?
20:25:27 <ais523> olsner: a random line containing the word you give that isn't from today
20:25:30 -!- augur has joined.
20:25:52 <ais523> it has several uses, but plugging random words into it is a good one
20:25:54 <HackEgo> 2012-12-06.txt:01:09:16: <gasoline> no thanks HackEgo
20:25:59 <HackEgo> 2010-12-28.txt:04:39:01: <variable> Quadrescence, chicken
20:26:06 <HackEgo> 2012-03-23.txt:01:15:32: <RocketJSquirrel> KAPLA, TWILIGHT SPARKLE, KAPLA
20:26:24 <ais523> maybe I spelt that wrong
20:26:35 <HackEgo> 2008-12-05.txt:16:50:32: <ais523> so is acciacatura
20:26:45 <ais523> maybe I spelt that wrong then, too
20:26:51 <HackEgo> 2010-03-27.txt:23:28:02: <rapido> heisenbug! now you are talking my way!
20:26:52 -!- FreeFull has joined.
20:27:06 <HackEgo> 2011-09-12.txt:06:49:02: <CakeProphet> though it's buttered toast and not a pop-tart
20:27:31 <HackEgo> 2011-01-22.txt:23:09:51: <oerjan> <nddrylliog> oerjan: are you into leather? <-- er what, no. is that because i approved of your spanking comment?
20:27:47 <HackEgo> 2008-09-15.txt:12:06:22: <Slereah_> Silly Emplosions looks a little too silly.
20:28:13 <HackEgo> 2011-10-04.txt:04:32:37: * oerjan puts Sgeo|web in shouting disease quarantine
20:28:18 <Vorpal> are you trying out weird words?
20:28:18 <HackEgo> 2011-07-20.txt:04:43:49: <elliott> funny, python feels more like bondage and discipline
20:28:30 <elliott> i dont remember saying that
20:28:40 <ais523> it's the "think of a word, plug it into `pastlog" game
20:28:54 <Vorpal> elliott, was that in approval of python or not? Hey I don't know your tastes so I better ask..
20:28:58 <ais523> it has been at least once
20:29:00 <HackEgo> 2009-05-12.txt:03:01:18: <oerjan> !addinterp slashes perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes.pl
20:29:03 <boily> hm. sadly ΓΈrjan isn't there to ask if, indeed, he is into leather.
20:29:10 <ais523> Vorpal: is it time for the usual "elliott is underage" joke?
20:29:16 <olsner> we should make it so you don't even have to put in a word
20:29:18 <elliott> guys I'm not underage any more
20:29:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
20:29:25 <boily> elliott: you sure?
20:29:30 <olsner> then we can use it as the new five times `quote game
20:29:33 <quintopia> olsner: you mean pull a random word from dictionary?
20:29:33 <Vorpal> ais523, not exactly. General "sexual orientation" joke I think
20:29:42 <ais523> olsner: that's just `log, but putting in random words gives you better lines
20:29:45 <olsner> quintopia: or a random line from the logs more likely
20:29:51 <HackEgo> 2010-10-30.txt:21:43:02: <archaeology> zzo38: ...Good luck with that, I think they were joking ;P
20:29:54 <HackEgo> 2010-05-11.txt:21:55:29: <calamari> nah I just have a simple webpage
20:29:54 <HackEgo> 2004-06-27.txt:08:00:00: -!- clog has joined #esoteric.
20:30:15 <ais523> it's worrying me how often the random words turn out to be nicks
20:30:17 <HackEgo> 2005-11-24.txt:13:06:59: <lindi-> let's see if i can retrieve source of jogl-demos with http://iki.fi/lindi/cvsweb-dump.pl
20:30:18 <HackEgo> 2011-01-09.txt:23:53:32: <Phantom__Hoover> pikhq, well, her quibble was more that I had used it between sentences that weren't very logically connected.
20:30:53 <boily> `pastlog wil wheaton
20:31:03 <Vorpal> I think it is pretty lagged
20:31:15 <elliott> it's timing out because 5000 queries
20:31:26 * boily innocently whistles
20:31:27 <Vorpal> quintopia, should use a more efficient representation then
20:31:35 <Vorpal> ais523, not over 9000, so we are all good
20:31:44 <boily> it needs a SQL database.
20:31:44 <olsner> Vorpal: more efficient than flat files of plain text? unpossible!
20:31:55 <ais523> remind me never to try humour in the presence of Vorpal
20:31:57 <boily> `pastlog No output.
20:31:59 <Vorpal> it needs a full text search index
20:32:05 <ais523> I think you may have broken it
20:32:07 <HackEgo> 2009-03-30.txt:19:59:14: <ehird> ASTERISM
20:32:13 <HackEgo> 2010-03-02.txt:13:37:43: <HackEgo> No output.
20:32:15 <HackEgo> 2011-02-27.txt:00:51:29: <oklopol> i read the last harry potter like umm on sunday
20:32:21 <ais523> oh no, it's just badly out of order
20:32:23 <HackEgo> 2009-05-12.txt:16:14:29: <asiekierka> ehird: Unpossible
20:32:30 <HackEgo> 2010-07-11.txt:05:48:02: <Gregor> Aardvark Wagon
20:32:46 <HackEgo> 2011-01-25.txt:23:33:35: <olsner> it translates the PATH automagically
20:32:54 <Vorpal> ais523, is it just me, or is aardvark just a really funny word?
20:32:58 <boily> `pastlog beautiful
20:33:03 <HackEgo> 2008-02-10.txt:19:25:28: <ehird`> => "abcbananaasd222di"
20:33:07 <HackEgo> 2010-07-15.txt:00:13:12: <aliseiphone> pikhq: I have a beautifully typeset The Metamorphosis.
20:33:25 <ais523> elliott: btw, hilarious moment from #nethack: <rchase, directed at ais523> listen, if you want to edit ESR's work... go right ahead
20:33:26 <Vorpal> elliott, "<HackEgo> 2010-07-15.txt:00:13:12: <aliseiphone> pikhq: I have a beautifully typeset The Metamorphosis." <-- really?
20:33:30 <HackEgo> 2012-11-11.txt:22:51:51: <pikhq_> Traditionally, Chinese abacii were hexadecimal.
20:33:32 <HackEgo> 2012-11-02.txt:22:35:29: <olsner> bezoar
20:33:34 <elliott> boily: are you feeding in your entire dictionary
20:33:49 <boily> elliott: covering words in Β«bΒ».
20:33:51 <elliott> ais523: not about C-INTERCAL, I presume?
20:33:51 <olsner> hmm, I've said bezoar? I wonder why I did that
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20:33:59 <ais523> elliott: yeah, it was about the NetHack guidebook
20:34:04 <boily> olsner: bezoar got a hit? wooooah.
20:34:21 <HackEgo> 2012-02-10.txt:22:29:14: <HackEgo> zzo39? Β―\(Β°_o)/Β―
20:34:27 <HackEgo> 2008-01-11.txt:11:01:46: <Corun> As in an abbreviation of Corundum, :-)
20:34:32 <HackEgo> 2011-04-29.txt:17:47:50: <ais523> the way it works is, if anyone manages to produce a history of every transaction ever, it becomes official, and they get a small bitcoin reward for doing os
20:34:35 <HackEgo> 2011-04-07.txt:21:40:46: <HackEgo> 353) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something
20:34:55 <boily> `pastlog hovercraft
20:35:05 <HackEgo> 2011-11-20.txt:13:17:09: <elliott_> Hi Taneb|Hovercraft.
20:35:33 <olsner> ais523: speaking of django, there's a new movie out called something with django ... I expect it to be about web development
20:35:37 <ais523> elliott: I'm pretty sure there have been some ais524 sightings
20:35:55 <ais523> olsner: it doesn't look like that from the adverts, but admittedly I haven't watched it
20:36:19 <HackEgo> 2009-02-28.txt:21:25:55: <kerlo> Ah, but you see, intelligence is all about approximating the universe, and what better approximation to use than a tangent line?
20:36:22 <HackEgo> 2011-09-26.txt:12:54:07: <fizzie> A mantra: "tekken tekken virtua fighter / oh my brain feels so much lighter".
20:36:28 <HackEgo> 2012-08-22.txt:00:12:24: <kmc> minun ilmatyynyalus on tΓ€ynnΓ€ ankeriaita
20:36:30 <HackEgo> 2010-09-12.txt:04:25:57: <alise> Sometimes it feels to me as if I'm just being used.
20:36:47 <HackEgo> 2009-10-31.txt:19:52:26: <ehird> touchΓ©
20:37:03 <ais523> and thought "whoa, kerio was in #esoteric?"
20:37:12 <olsner> I remember the name kerlo
20:37:14 <boily> kmc's been speaking in the black tongue of finlandor.
20:37:18 <quintopia> ais523: make it search for the word eels so that feels doesn't match
20:37:25 <oerjan> kerlo was tswett and tusho was elliott, or the other way around
20:37:33 <HackEgo> 2010-10-14.txt:04:50:35: <HackEgo> My hovercraft is full of eels.
20:37:35 <ais523> it was a lojban name, or something
20:37:44 <ais523> quintopia: there you go
20:38:36 <ais523> yeah, it's running out of steam
20:38:52 <ais523> sadly we don't have a /usr/share/dict/words
20:38:57 <ais523> to generate random words automatically
20:38:59 <tswett> Wow, that was almost four years ago.
20:40:00 <HackEgo> 2009-09-03.txt:18:34:21: <fizzie> It's also a bit further away, though, so I think it might have less of a gravitational influence. Still, at perihelion it seems to be closer than Pluto at aphelion.
20:40:30 <ais523> quintopia: here, I think
20:40:44 <HackEgo> 374) <oerjan> as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw <zzo38> quintopia: I am at Canada.
20:41:12 <quintopia> boily: you didn't know he was at Canada?
20:41:18 <quintopia> it's pretty common knowledge here now
20:41:23 <impomatic> ais523: can't find a reference online... It was in one of the local paper. He would just turn up at the petrol station, slash the pipe and drink direct from the pump.
20:41:32 <ais523> impomatic: and is still alive?
20:41:39 <ais523> presumably people had to keep stopping him
20:41:45 <HackEgo> bay cir ruf mirb morao incus orgonnat belle maile halshin possim especita bottoa prespe fait uncl sete oscordeclaship willin runt hijk eing ohi bir jaul
20:41:56 <oerjan> who needs /usr/dict/words
20:41:56 <boily> quintopia: you and your real, tangible world! don't you forget some of us here are not as solid and material as you are!
20:42:04 <ais523> the problem with `words is that they tend not to have been spoken
20:42:11 <ais523> boily: enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity!
20:43:44 * ais523 wonders if boily was thinking of that reference when he said that
20:44:01 <ais523> hmm, I thought of another command by analogy to `list
20:44:04 <ais523> not sure of the name yet
20:44:11 <ais523> all it does is tell you if it's been used recently
20:44:16 <oerjan> Gregor: you know it would be very helpful if HackEgo gave a different response on timeout than on ordinary lack of output
20:46:23 <olsner> ooh, c++: bool* board[1][1]; board[size][size] = { nullptr };
20:47:45 <ais523> is this something to do with bool acting weird?
20:47:57 <olsner> no, it's just really bad code
20:48:09 <olsner> the one who wrote that wants to know why it's not working
20:48:49 <zzo38> When I have bagels I will cut a notch in it. Do you?
20:48:58 <olsner> actually, might as well give you all the code: http://ideone.com/W6Ev77
20:50:01 <ais523> I thought you meant that that somehow assigned 5 to size
20:50:04 <ais523> just in that bit of code there
20:50:14 <ais523> and as it's C++, I thought that was plausible
20:52:11 <boily> ais523: back from coffee. no, I wasn't thinking.
20:52:51 <impomatic> ais523: still alive as far as I know. Couldn't find the article online, but found this instead http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5877824/Boy-drinks-petrol-to-become-Transformer.html
20:53:34 <ais523> impomatic: somehow I don't want to know :)
20:53:51 <Gregor> <oerjan> Gregor: you know it would be very helpful if HackEgo gave a different response on timeout than on ordinary lack of output // TOO BAD
20:55:39 <ais523> <Slashdot> U.S. researchers have succeeded in re-animating a dead sparrow.
20:55:51 <ais523> apparently by fitting a robot inside it
20:56:13 <ais523> it got destroyed by some actual sparrows
20:58:06 <boily> ais523: that's new. didn't know jack about that.
20:58:46 * boily silently drinks his coffee. very silently.
21:07:54 <oerjan> Gregor: it's _your_ resources that get used because i redo commands when i'm not sure if they really should have no output. hth.
21:09:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:09:39 <oerjan> (admittedly i guess i misuse your resources more for other reasons.)
21:11:18 -!- sebbu has joined.
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21:20:21 <oerjan> <Taneb> I'm translating it into C <-- what, but you need bignums...
21:21:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:21:16 <Taneb> Yeah, I'm using gmp
21:21:37 <Taneb> In fact, I've done it all except for run' and parseSK
21:23:42 <olsner> are you making an esolang?
21:24:26 <olsner> what else are you doing with gmp, run and parseSK?
21:24:37 <Taneb> Ridiculous SK-calculus interpreter
21:25:31 <Bike> how do you even make a SK calc interpreter ridiculous
21:25:57 <Taneb> By encoding it into positive integers first
21:26:01 <oerjan> Bike: http://hpaste.org/83052 is a demonstration hth
21:26:18 <Bike> oh i have a textbook that does that
21:26:44 <Taneb> In the same way as me?
21:26:57 <Bike> bitstrings ofc
21:27:18 <Taneb> What's cool about mine is it makes literally no assumptions about how integers are implemented
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21:27:39 <Taneb> As in, it doesn't have to be bitstrings
21:27:54 <Taneb> Could be roman numerals for all I care
21:27:59 <olsner> using the bits doesn't mean the implementation of integer has to be anything related to bitstrings
21:28:41 <Bike> (especially considering that the bitstrings were implemented as linked lists of SK combinators)
21:29:27 <Bike> i feel like you should use godel encoding
21:29:31 <Bike> for maximum stupid mathiness
21:29:51 <ais523> Bike: isn't that just "put the program in a file"?
21:29:56 <Taneb> Bike, I think I am
21:29:58 <ais523> we use gΓΆdel encoding all the time
21:30:03 <ais523> what does eval() do, for instance?
21:30:09 <ais523> an argument could be made that we should use it less
21:30:18 <elliott> well it refers to a _specific_ encoding.
21:30:24 <elliott> wait I should be letting oerjan do this for me
21:30:35 <Bike> No, I mean the thing with primes.
21:30:42 <ais523> hmm, I thought the original proof didn't care about the specifics of the encoding
21:30:51 <Bike> It doesn't, i don't think, but it's what he used?
21:31:02 <Bike> [4,7,3] = 2^4 + 3^7 + 5^3 and so on
21:31:36 <Bike> 2328. nice and inefficient
21:32:12 <Taneb> Wouldn't it be 2^4 times 3^7 times 5^3?
21:32:49 <Bike> actually i think the textbook might have used cantor pairing now that i think about it
21:32:59 <Bike> maybe i should read it again and do more exercises to fix my incompetence a bit
21:33:45 <Bike> btw i like that you mentioned implementation dependence after clarifying the C library you had to be using :3
21:34:03 <oerjan> <elliott> wait I should be letting oerjan do this for me <-- but i'm lazy and also logreading
21:34:58 <oerjan> i think i mentioned my idea of using a combination of bitstrings and fibonacci base?
21:35:50 <oerjan> basically, an arbitrary number in binary can be split into a list of numbers in fibonacci base separated by 1's. and this is a bijection.
21:36:43 <Bike> is that a prefix code
21:36:46 <Taneb> Bike, algorithm isn't program
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21:37:12 <oerjan> Bike: well it's meant to be a bijection between naturals and finite length lists of naturals
21:37:14 <Taneb> Nevermind the fact that in both implementations that currently exist are entirely dependent the same implementation
21:37:29 <Bike> Taneb: yes and C doesn't have integers anyway, i just thought it was funny
21:37:32 <oerjan> there may have been subtle details about it.
21:38:20 <Bike> i don't think very many algorithms particularly care about how integers are represented, though
21:38:25 <Bike> so it seems like a weird thing to have said
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21:39:03 <Taneb> Bike, I mean, I'm not using bitstrings at all
21:39:22 <Bike> Taneb: but you can use bitstrings regardless of how integers are represented.
21:39:49 <Bike> ais523: what do you need for that?
21:40:07 <Bike> wikipedia even goes through it with linear operator matrices, pff
21:40:34 <ais523> Bike: well you need things to be represented as bits to xor swap them
21:40:57 <Bike> you can define bitwise xor on integers
21:41:05 <Bike> same with bases, fiora
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21:42:10 <Bike> i mean hey it might be slow as hell
21:42:14 <Bike> but this is math! who cares right
21:42:46 <olsner> not sure what went after that
21:42:53 <Bike> elegantly stated, olsner
21:42:58 <elliott> something something, olsner
21:43:51 <Fiora> Bike: maybe algorithmic complexity? like X algorithm implemented with O(f(n)) requires some integer representation?
21:43:52 <elliott> this is what this channel is all about. intellectual discourse.
21:44:07 <Bike> Fiora: oh sure
21:44:43 <Bike> Fiora: long multiplication for an easy example. that's gonna be pretty fucking slow if you have to convert out of modular residues first
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21:44:49 <ais523> Bike: well it wouldn't be xor swap if you went and simulated the xor
21:45:01 <Bike> who's simulating anything
21:45:01 <ais523> because the point of xor swap is the number of instructions it requires
21:45:23 <Bike> "that's a program, not an algorithm"
21:45:26 <ais523> Bike: I guess the point is that the algorithm is defined in terms of what instructions it uses
21:45:32 <ais523> yeah, that seems possible
21:45:39 <ais523> except it's a program that exists in many assembly languages
21:45:59 <oerjan> <Bike> you can define bitwise xor on integers <-- conway's nimber addition extends that even to transfinite ordinals
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21:46:07 <ais523> so it's a bit more general than just a single program
21:46:10 <Bike> i've always wanted to xor swap transfinite ordinals
21:46:22 * ais523 wonders what kmc is agreeing with
21:46:22 <kmc> `quote <Bike> i've always wanted to xor swap transfinite ordinals
21:46:28 <kmc> `addquote <Bike> i've always wanted to xor swap transfinite ordinals
21:46:33 <kmc> yeah i remember
21:46:34 <HackEgo> 973) <Bike> i've always wanted to xor swap transfinite ordinals
21:46:44 <Bike> so first i've got to do the linear operator thing and now this
21:46:56 <ais523> Bike: linear as in linear logic?
21:47:04 <Bike> no as in linear operators
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21:47:21 <olsner> oerjan: what's conway's nimber addition?
21:47:38 <Bike> i was really tired a few nights ago and was talking about a language where the only functions are infinite matrices
21:47:46 <Bike> and elliott commanded me to make an esolang
21:47:49 <Bike> and i can't like, disobey
21:47:51 <Bike> olsner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Z2%5E4;_Cayley_table;_binary.svg hth
21:48:17 <kmc> you can compute with transfinite ordinals to some degree right?
21:48:24 <ais523> elliott: is it common to have a finite supply of files?
21:48:37 <kmc> data Ordinal = Zero | Succ Ordinal | Omega | some other things
21:48:40 <kmc> how far does that get you
21:48:40 <ais523> my situation at work is: I need to edit some files, and the webserver needs to be able to read them
21:48:42 <Bike> kmc: i think there are even software packages for fuckin' with 'em
21:48:51 -!- lambdabot has joined.
21:48:55 <ais523> but I need to not be able to read arbitrary files that the webserver can read
21:49:04 <ais523> so at the moment, the files have my user, and its group
21:49:14 <ais523> and group read permissions
21:49:24 <ais523> this allows me to modify them, but not to create new files
21:49:24 <oerjan> olsner: oh hm it's not actually conway's, he just generalized them to games and surreal numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimber
21:50:03 * ais523 has got into the habit of M-x set-variable backup-by-copying t
21:50:34 <Bike> kmc: presumably you can get up to church-kleene?
21:53:13 <oerjan> <kmc> you can compute with transfinite ordinals to some degree right? <-- yep, see Cantor normal form
21:53:31 <oerjan> which is like base omega notation
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21:55:44 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_normal_form#Cantor_normal_form
21:56:47 <olsner> `pastlog something.*something
21:56:49 <Bike> you need to use ordinals as exponents in their own representation some times? awesome
21:56:57 <HackEgo> 2010-05-23.txt:21:55:22: <uorygl> And the idea of wanting something makes me want to do something else. :P
21:57:16 <kmc> http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/3/d/33d48c263ce795ad60a4505f58860913.png
21:57:19 <kmc> my new favorite number
21:57:42 <kmc> so this is basically base Ο?
21:57:52 <oerjan> Bike: yep, also you can have omega^x = x which gives you the epsilon ordinals (which you then need to handle separately to distinguish them)
21:58:09 <Bike> kmc: except you have e.g. epsilon_zero = omega^epsilon_zero making things a bit trickier
21:58:37 <oerjan> Bike: also this notation is how you prove goodstein sequences terminate
21:58:51 <Bike> yeah i suppose this is a bit more than peano eh
21:58:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:59:08 <Bike> did remind me of hereditary base notation
21:59:13 <oerjan> (peano cannot prove that the epsilons exist)
22:00:00 <Bike> if only there was some way to define undefinable ordinals.............
22:01:26 -!- augur has joined.
22:02:11 <oerjan> Bike: i think i linked this last time we discussed such things http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_countable_ordinal
22:02:19 <Bike> already there~
22:03:10 <oerjan> Bike: i think the problem with reaching church-kleene is you get some kind of analogy to the halting problem: you have enough notations but you cannot prove any given notation gives an ordinal
22:04:03 <olsner> (given that there are almost 7 more seasons of voyager, I suspect that *maybe* they don't all get home in episode 7)
22:04:28 <Bike> the other seven seasons just consist of wide-angle shots of the skies where voyager would have been
22:04:31 <oerjan> hm i guess the introduction mentions that
22:05:09 <HackEgo> β/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: olis: not found
22:05:11 <HackEgo> β/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oliss: not found
22:05:22 <Bike> "Larger and larger ordinals can be defined, but they become more and more difficult to describe." i love math
22:05:27 <oerjan> olsner: now i vaguely recall someone writing about the idea of publishing a book where they didn't bother to fill in all the pages
22:07:01 <ais523> you know what's annoying? Emacs versions too old to have M-x visual-line-mode
22:07:13 <ais523> (I don't mind versions sufficiently old that it isn't on by default, because I can just turn it on)
22:07:19 <ais523> it makes navigating in very long lines annoying
22:07:22 -!- c00kiemon5ter has left.
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22:08:06 <olsner> oerjan: what a waste of pages
22:11:36 -!- Taneb has joined.
22:11:39 <ais523> oerjan: there was a joke in the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy
22:11:41 <ais523> about time travel grammar
22:11:51 <ais523> someone wrote a book about it, but everyone got bored at around the same point
22:11:59 <ais523> so they left all the pages after that point blank to save on printing costs
22:12:19 <oerjan> ais523: ah. i probably read that, but that's not what i was referring to.
22:12:43 * oerjan doesn't remember where what he's referring to is from, though
22:12:44 <nooodl> "Most readers get as far as the Future Semiconditionally Modified Subinverted Plagal Past Subjunctive Intentional before giving up; and in fact in later aditions of the book all pages beyond this point have been left blank to save on printing costs."
22:13:33 <nooodl> *editions. bad webpage i stole this quote from
22:14:11 <oerjan> ...ok today the sidebar of the previous page in oots looks right :P
22:15:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
22:15:40 * ais523 fails to see any way to interpret that as disapproval, also it's "hello" not "hi"
22:16:22 <olsner> does elliott have other modes of expression beyond disapproval?
22:16:40 <ais523> olsner: it's more that "hi" as a non sequitur is a mark of disapproval
22:16:46 <ais523> I think monqy started it
22:16:52 <HackEgo> 6) <Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR> He's alive :P <GreenReaper> Even so. \ 9) <Madelon> Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? <Lil`Cube> not yet <Lil`Cube> trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 14) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I ha
22:17:00 <HackEgo> 150) <oklopol> comex: what? <oklopol> *vorpal <oklopol> comex: hi, tab-complete completed c to comex instead of Vorpal, dunno why \ 207) [on Walter Bright] <nddrylliog> I went to chat with him after his talk at the ELC and he was like "hum, right - humans. How do they work again... oh, hi!" \ 729) <monqy> Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements
22:17:19 <Bike> i think i've seen more shachaf asking monqy about disapproving "hi"s than disapproving "hi"s themselves
22:17:29 <olsner> did monqy actually start it or did he just said hi once and everyone built a myth around it?
22:17:51 <HackEgo> 729) <monqy> Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird
22:18:13 <ais523> olsner: he said it more than once
22:19:11 <olsner> I've started seeing hi as ominous in other circumstances as well ... someone starts an IM conversation at work with the word "hi", and you know it only goes downhill from there
22:19:27 -!- cuttlefish has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:19:28 <ais523> "hi" on IM (or IRC PM) is quite a common "are you there?"
22:20:34 <olsner> the people I know usually just start with the actual question/message
22:21:41 -!- impomatic has joined.
22:22:29 <ais523> olsner: for me it depends on what the actual question/message is
22:22:43 <Bike> "since the Greek alphabet does not have transfinitely many letters it is better to use a more robust notation"
22:22:47 -!- NuclearMeltdown has quit (Changing host).
22:22:47 -!- NuclearMeltdown has joined.
22:23:18 <elliott> NuclearMeltdown the AntiLiberal
22:23:23 <olsner> maybe it's just a general case of people usually communicating because there's some problem they need help with, and "hi" just happens to be a common first communication
22:24:26 <olsner> but I can still blame #esoteric for making "hi" sound ominous
22:24:42 <olsner> I can blame you for anything
22:25:13 <Bike> βUnrecursableβ recursive ordinals <-- http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/2011-mustang-talk/162030-who-would-win-race-warning-danger-manifold.gif
22:25:46 <olsner> hmm, I wonder if this is one of those episodes where someone gets falsely accused and sentenced for some crime
22:26:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:27:07 <Bike> "A distinctive characteristic of his logic classes was that in the middle of each class, a previously selected student would have to get up and tell a joke. The joke had to be short, funny, and inoffensive to receive credit."
22:28:13 <olsner> yep, that and mosshaired aliens
22:31:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:32:29 <Bike> look up gerald sacks
22:32:47 <Bike> (no relation to oliver, i guess)
22:34:44 <elliott> http://www.math.harvard.edu/~sacks/sacks.html here is his "HyperMedia Plan File"
22:35:00 <elliott> generated by Netscape on SunOS 5.8 apparently
22:35:01 <Fiora> that's kind of a mean class
22:36:05 <oerjan> <Gregor> Would it help if I said "Britland"? <-- the land of the britneys and their fearsome spears
22:36:05 <Bike> yeah i'd hate it
22:36:14 <Bike> it sounds silly in the worst way
22:36:44 <Gregor> oerjan: Nice necromany bro
22:37:15 <Bike> elliott: i'm surprised i've never seen an academic page telling me it's optimally viewed on Mosaic
22:37:38 <oerjan> oh right i forgot the britneys are dead
22:37:49 <elliott> what I want to know is, do you have to invent the joke
22:37:55 <elliott> or can you just give a good performance of an existing joke
22:38:08 <oerjan> wait no, that's the whitneys. Gregor, you are confusing me...
22:38:30 <Bike> it says "inoffensive"
22:41:45 <oerjan> <ais523> OK, so Morpeth's distinguishing feature is that people pretend to know something about it <-- no it's distinguishable feature is that its name cannot possibly be real.
22:42:03 <ais523> oerjan: it's the capital of northumberland
22:42:11 <ais523> and apparently has the most dangerous stretch of railway in the UK
22:42:18 <ais523> (which, if you think about it, has to be /somewhere/)
22:42:27 <oerjan> > "morpeth" \\ "northumberland"
22:42:42 <oerjan> > "morpeth" \\ "northumberland capital"
22:42:58 <oerjan> see, they just made up a name from letters in the phrase
22:43:23 <ais523> am I going to have to visit Morpeth to determine its existence?
22:43:28 <ais523> that'd probably be quite expensive
22:43:32 <ais523> it's at the far end of the country
22:43:41 <ais523> we can send elliott or Taneb instead, I guess, they're a lot nearer
22:43:53 <oerjan> yes, but you're in the middle, not in cornwall
22:44:02 <elliott> ais523: we could go to morpeth together
22:44:07 <elliott> that would be stornger evidence
22:44:21 <ais523> elliott: we wouldn't be going there directly unless we were coming from the same place
22:44:23 <elliott> maybe it's the other way around
22:44:34 <ais523> otherwise we'd be arriving there together, but not going there together
22:44:35 <elliott> ais523: well, we could both go there
22:44:37 <elliott> and then be there, together
22:45:19 <oerjan> quintopia: i'm not sure pratchett uses puns much for his place names?
22:45:21 <quintopia> but, "chatting in #esoteric" is also something
22:45:59 <olsner> actually, chatting in #esoteric is nothing
22:50:44 <quintopia> if someone were to ask me what i'm doing right now, i'd say "shopping for health insurance"
22:55:31 <ais523> oh no I forgot how awful the US's health system is
22:56:01 <ais523> health insurance exists in the UK too, but because the government runs a free health service, the health insurers have to do a lot in order to offer value for money
22:56:20 <Bike> what we lack in useful services we make up for with FREEDOM
22:56:43 <quintopia> FREEDOM to pay a lot for healthcare!
22:57:01 * Bike sets loose a crying, anemic eagle
22:57:55 <ais523> as an example: a while ago I woke up on Sunday morning and discovere that one of my eyes was swollen, we went to an NHS-run clinic that was open on Sundays, they had a doctor look at it, (correctly) tell me what was wrong, prescribe some medicine, and let me know what shops would be able to sell the medicine to me that were open on Sunday
22:58:05 <ais523> and the cost of the medicine was subsidized by the government
22:58:08 <kmc> ais523: but your FREEDOM
22:58:16 <ais523> diagnosis was free, the medicine was less than Β£10 after the subsidy
22:58:42 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
22:58:54 <Fiora> how do I add quote
22:59:22 <HackEgo> β/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qdbformat: not found
22:59:29 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
22:59:31 <Bike> stupid everything
22:59:35 <HackEgo> qdbformat is: <nick> message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two
22:59:49 <ais523> Bike: no fair doing that while I'm reading scrollback and so can't see recent messages
22:59:55 <Fiora> oh do I have to add ;s?
23:00:10 <Bike> just two spaces between messages
23:00:19 <Fiora> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, are you just trying to post kmcbait... *Fiora imagines a cardboard box propped up by a stick with a pile of monads inside. <elliott> Fiora: that is actually what Haskell is.
23:00:19 <Bike> also imo you should just add whatever and let whoever actually cares fix it
23:00:23 <HackEgo> 974) <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, are you just trying to post kmcbait... *Fiora imagines a cardboard box propped up by a stick with a pile of monads inside. <elliott> Fiora: that is actually what Haskell is.
23:01:15 <ais523> but yeah, you want a space between * and Fiora
23:01:35 <HackEgo> β*poof* <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, are you just trying to post kmcbait... *Fiora imagines a cardboard box propped up by a stick with a pile of monads inside. <elliott> Fiora: that is actually what Haskell is.
23:01:40 <Bike> i need to stop
23:01:42 <Fiora> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, are you just trying to post kmcbait... * Fiora imagines a cardboard box propped up by a stick with a pile of monads inside. <elliott> Fiora: that is actually what Haskell is.
23:01:45 <HackEgo> 974) <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo_, are you just trying to post kmcbait... * Fiora imagines a cardboard box propped up by a stick with a pile of monads inside. <elliott> Fiora: that is actually what Haskell is.
23:01:57 <olsner> a cardboard box with read and blue pipes
23:02:01 <HackEgo> 28) <oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 68) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 69) Note that quote number 124 is not actually true. \ 77) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystif
23:02:23 <olsner> it might also have lead pipes
23:04:33 <HackEgo> 77) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future
23:05:44 <olsner> i.e. let's put the quote about putting something in the quotes files in the quotes files to mystify us now?
23:06:23 <HackEgo> 76) <ais523> so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.?
23:07:33 <oerjan> `run echo eniuq | rev | sh
23:07:36 <HackEgo> β`run echo eniuq | rev | sh
23:08:44 <ais523> you're running quine but encrypting its name
23:09:56 <quintopia> how did the race condition thing happen
23:10:15 <quintopia> does `quine just echo back the last line sent to the channel?
23:10:24 <zzo38> Is that how domain names work?
23:10:33 <quintopia> that's a pretty lame implementation
23:11:04 <HackEgo> β PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 284 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 285 ? 00:00:00 cat
23:11:10 <Bike> quintopia: on the flipside it's hilariously bad
23:11:30 <quintopia> Bike: actually, it's the only way to get stuff like oerjan's encrypted call to work
23:11:40 <HackEgo> ERROR: Garbage option. \ ********* simple selection ********* ********* selection by list ********* \ -A all processes -C by command name \ -N negate selection -G by real group ID (supports names) \ -a all w/ tty except session leaders -U by real user ID (supports names) \ -d all except session leaders
23:11:42 <ais523> quintopia: `quine reads the logs and copies the last line
23:11:44 <oerjan> `run ps | sed s'/ */ /g'
23:11:45 <HackEgo> β PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 284 ? 00:00:00 bash \ 285 ? 00:00:00 cat \ 287 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sed
23:11:57 <quintopia> well, i suppose it isn't the only way
23:12:16 <quintopia> but it is the only way without modifying HackEgo's core code
23:12:38 <oerjan> quintopia: i was wondering if it would be possible to get the information out of ps instead
23:12:58 <oerjan> elliott: no i was just missing `run
23:13:08 <olsner> oerjan: what are you trying to get out?
23:13:37 <oerjan> olsner: the current HackEgo command line
23:14:34 <HackEgo> β PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 284 ? 00:00:00 bash \ 285 ? 00:00:00 cat \ 287 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sed
23:14:40 <HackEgo> β PID TTY TIME CMD \ 1 ? 00:00:00 init \ 2 ? 00:00:00 kthreadd \ 3 ? 00:00:00 ksoftirqd/0 \ 4 ? 00:00:00 kworker/0:0 \ 5 ? 00:00:00 kworker/0:0H \ 6 ? 00:00:00 kworker/u:0 \ 7 ? 00:00:00 kworker/u:0H \ 8 ? 00:00:00 cpuset \ 9 ? 00:00:00 khelper \ 10 ? 00:00:00 kdevtmpfs \ 11 ? 00:00:00 netns \ 12 ? 00:00:00 kworker/u:1 \ 45 ? 00:00:0
23:15:00 <quintopia> `run ps -e | sed s'/ */ /g' | grep ps
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23:17:04 <oerjan> `run ps -e | sed s'/ */ /g' | grep run
23:21:08 -!- augur has joined.
23:21:12 <HackEgo> CMD \ /init \ sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'bash' '-c' 'ps -o cmd' | cat \ ps -o cmd \ cat
23:22:39 <olsner> not sure what you were trying to do, hope that helps
23:23:53 <HackEgo> sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'bash' '-c' 'ps -o cmd | grep '\''ps*'\''' | cat \ bash -c ps -o cmd | grep 'ps*' \ ps -o cmd \ grep ps*
23:24:30 <oerjan> `run (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo "ps -o cmd") >bin/psocmd; chmod +x bin/psocmd
23:24:39 <HackEgo> CMD \ /init \ sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'psocmd' | cat \ /bin/sh /hackenv/bin/psocmd \ cat \ ps -o cmd
23:25:56 <oerjan> `run ps -o cmd | grep limits
23:25:57 <HackEgo> sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'bash' '-c' 'ps -o cmd | grep limits' | cat \ bash -c ps -o cmd | grep limits \ grep limits
23:26:29 <oerjan> `run ps -o cmd | grep 'lim[i]ts'
23:26:30 <HackEgo> sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'bash' '-c' 'ps -o cmd | grep '\''lim[i]ts'\''' | cat
23:27:51 <oerjan> `run ps -o cmd | grep 'lim[i]ts'
23:27:53 <HackEgo> sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'bash' '-c' ' ps -o cmd | grep '\''lim[i]ts'\''' | cat
23:30:37 <oerjan> oh the limits one probably does an exec or something
23:30:48 <oerjan> `cat /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits
23:30:49 <HackEgo> β#!/bin/bash \ ulimit -f 10240 \ ulimit -l 0 \ ulimit -u 128 \ exec -- "$@"
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23:34:11 <oerjan> looks complicated anyhow
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23:42:41 <nooga> clojure is actually pretty good
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