00:00:05 Maybe's monoid instance sucks a bit 00:00:16 > let fhead x = fromMaybe x . Data.Foldable.foldl (\x acc -> Just x) Nothing in fhead [] [1,2,3] 00:00:19 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 00:00:19 b0 = Data.Maybe.Maybe b0 00:01:00 Does teletext have music? The documentation for Yamaha OPLL mentions tones applicable to teletext. 00:01:16 zzo38: I don't recall it ever having music 00:01:56 zzo38: teletext information placed in the vblank space of a TV broadcast has no music 00:02:19 sometimes, though, the rendered version of teletext used to be sent over TV to fill in a gap where nothing was broadcasting 00:02:23 and in that case, music was often sent with it 00:03:04 ais523: But that would be just standard audio? 00:03:12 yes 00:04:15 But then it isn't FM synthesis? Then why does OPLL documentation mention tones applicable to teletext? 00:07:51 I don't think most TVs have FM synth chips 00:08:18 I would like if the channel 2 (On TVL) we have in my area would also include teletext (but as far as I know it doesn't). 00:08:24 FreeFull: I don't think so either 00:09:10 They should also put teletext on the weather channel too. 00:28:57 -!- md_5 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:48:48 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:51:48 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 00:58:40 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:02:19 -!- md_5 has joined. 01:12:47 -!- olsner has joined. 01:17:01 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:18:14 -!- augur has joined. 01:30:27 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 01:32:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:37:56 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:38:49 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:38:59 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:39:30 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:49:00 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:54:08 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:59:00 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:11:49 -!- olsner has joined. 02:17:00 ais523: wow 02:17:08 wow at what? 02:17:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:17:14 ais523: Wonko was the person who wrote -Like this.-, right? 02:17:20 wat 02:17:21 no, that was the Baron 02:17:23 oh 02:17:25 dammit 02:17:28 -Bike: it's very unnerving- 02:17:29 it has been too long 02:17:39 -it's ridiculous how creepy it is- 02:18:25 um 02:19:05 I don't see what's so creepy 02:19:21 -well that was only around the nick, it doesn't count- 02:19:28 -ok commas ruin the effect- 02:19:31 -OKAY- 02:19:32 -as does monqy grammar- 02:19:46 -30- 02:19:51 gah 02:19:52 -what is monqy grammar- 02:19:54 kmc: never do that again 02:19:58 :( 02:20:03 -40- 02:20:08 elliott: somehow that's not as bad 02:20:10 -50- 02:20:13 -30- 02:20:17 -!- ais523 has left (" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api"). 02:20:22 i dont get it 02:20:29 ok 02:20:40 -amusement- 02:20:44 monqy: hahahaha 02:20:56 another chapter for our "1001 ways to make ais523 ragepat" book 02:21:03 ragepat 02:21:28 `pastlog ragepat 02:21:36 what is 30???? 02:21:44 oh i forgot ragepat is a thing 02:22:06 No output. 02:22:17 `pastlog ragepat 02:22:26 2012-01-20.txt:15:06:55: i haven't seen him since he ragepatted 02:22:53 `pastlog ragepat 02:23:00 2012-01-11.txt:19:25:53: *Ragepat 02:23:30 -i still want to understand what monqy grammar is- 02:23:42 -agreement- 02:24:17 -is it using nouns as sentences- 02:24:18 Eliding punctuation and capitalization, lots of "um" "ok" etc.? 02:24:47 -oh ok ic got it right down there- 02:25:15 >i think these as starting to fray at the ends< 02:25:21 >*are< 02:26:01 |what is the creepiest way of doing this anyway| 02:26:16 ☺good question☺ 02:26:27 monqy: hi 02:26:39 ??????hi 02:26:50 oerjan: Use control characters, maybe? 02:27:07 ah ic youre eliding punctuation to save it all for big bursts? 02:28:00 that's just crazy talk 02:28:13 is this, like, foreplay 02:28:57 no this is all good wholesome driving people crazy 02:29:14 No. It is, like, 4play, which is different. 02:29:17 who are you driving crazy? yourselves? 02:29:22 Yes. 02:29:30 that seems inefficient 02:29:43 To you it is, perhaps. 02:29:48 `run ? mad | colorize 02:29:50 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 02:30:25 -!- olsner has joined. 02:30:29 `? color 02:30:31 color? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:30:32 I haven't read Alice. I am immune to its power. 02:30:35 `? colour 02:30:37 colour? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:32:43 `run echo "Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu." | colorize | tee wisdom/colour >wisdom/color; sed -i 's/or/our/' wisdom/colour 02:32:48 No output. 02:32:55 `? colour 02:32:57 ​Colour is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 02:33:39 Color is not limited to outer space and it is not only for driving humanity insane and it is also not only for Cthulhu. But I suppose that can be one possible use. 02:34:08 that's just what a shoggoth would say 02:34:09 The other use is for syntax highlighting. 02:34:16 This explains why americans are crazy and worship cthulhu 02:35:02 oerjan: http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-8900-ex 02:36:05 What is the SCP number for Death Note? What I hate about SCP is keep deleting files and changing around the numbers when they replace a deleted one using a same number. 02:36:45 zzo38: http://www.scp-wiki.net/archived-scps they keep 'em 02:37:46 That's only for ones notable enough to keep 02:37:55 Ruby of Ruination is deleted forever :( 02:38:19 never heard of it. 02:38:29 Is the number reused? 02:38:48 zzo38, yes. Whether or not an old one was ARCed or merely deleted 02:38:51 http://scpclassic.wikidot.com/scp-031 Oh. 02:38:55 http://brake-down.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Invention-of-Color.jpg 02:39:56 Calvin's dad is a jaded ex-O5. 02:40:25 Was deleted a long time ago because the origins make no sense... how has it not destroyed the world already 02:40:55 good question 02:41:19 Sgeo: That is problem to me! Other than that, there are other things I hate about it too such as, it is not open to everyone (including thought-experiments), and some other problems too. So we could make "Open SCP" which is open for everyone, even if the origins make no sense, and which nothing is ever deleted or numbers reused either. 02:41:30 It's kind of boring... SCP already has a lot of "object destroys matter" 02:41:35 To distinguish number write a different prefix so you know it is not the same one. 02:42:11 `wc wisdom/color 02:42:12 zzo38, but then you'd get a lot of poorly written ones, boring ones, etc. 02:42:12 ​ 1 20 347 wisdom/color 02:42:36 If it is boring then instead let's community (open to everyone) to down-vote so that they can sorted by rating and by similarity, too, so if they have a lot of one you can still improve the quality subjectively without having to delete things and reuse numbers. 02:42:39 Also it would be indistinguishable from "hey write something and number it" 02:43:25 and scp has ratings. 02:43:46 In addition, to find the entries which are considered as best and put those into the book, so that you will have a improve quality as well as a normal one? 02:43:59 but, i'm shallow, i'll be happy as long as they keep Red Sea Object 02:44:27 But maybe they won't? I think they change things too much. 02:45:01 (Anyways, even if such thing as Open SCP is made it is not meaning SCP will stop! It just means an alternative......) 02:45:12 haven't they already forked once or twice? 02:46:10 Maybe, I don't know, but we need the one which is open, rather than closed to the selected group of writers, doctors, overseers, wikidot employees, and so on. 02:46:26 And which never reuses numbers. 02:46:45 If you really need to delete something, just put it in the attic and then promise not to reuse their numbers for other things. 02:46:46 well, would be easy to make one, i guess 02:47:00 are numbers that important 02:47:13 (Doesn't CVS put things in the attic or something like that?) 02:49:56 SCP also misses so many things I can think of, but they won't work like that, so that is why, to make the open one which can make anyone's "thought experiment" you can improved; if one is no good you can still use pure wiki deletion and individual user can still have archive of their best ones too, all while still keeping the numbering to be not confused. 02:50:10 Bike: Yes, the numbers is the most important. 02:50:15 Why? 02:52:55 It also helps if one document references another, to keep the references to work properly, instead of wrongly. 02:53:18 Sgeo: Ruby of Ruination? The one that, when placed on top of a solid object, vibrates at that object's resonant frequency? 02:53:29 tswett, yes 02:53:32 But there are other reasons too such as some people might like one even though other people hate it, it can be a hiding threshold (somewhat like Slashdot does, but different) 02:54:02 do all objects even have resonant frequencies, that seems impossible 02:54:49 And one of the entries could be, referencing the nonexistent wiki which is similar and has a reference to this real one, though (similar to what Hofstadter did) 02:55:10 I think most if not all solid objects have resonant frequencies, but vibrating at that frequency will not necessarily have any significant effect. 02:55:37 Come to think of it, "resonant frequency" pretty much means "frequency that you hear when you bang on it". 02:55:58 tswett: I suppose it can be interesting to some circumstance nevertheless 02:56:24 For example, make up a situation which it is difficult but if you have such a thing see how to succeed at it? 02:57:53 Do what now? 02:58:06 I don't know. 02:58:21 Righty then. 03:00:45 "Object destroys matter" is not the interested much by itself, but some object which can sometimes do so, and has other effect, might have something to be interesting of in some cases, possibly. 03:02:31 Does a resonant frequency of a piano change if the keys is not pushed than if it is? 03:03:09 Well, different parts of the piano have different resonant frequencies. 03:03:43 If the damper is down on a string, that probably slightly raises the resonant frequency of that string. 03:04:07 But the main effect of the damper is, of course, to keep that string from vibrating at all. 03:11:20 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:34 -!- augur has joined. 03:15:00 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:27:15 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:30:08 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:30:17 -!- augur has joined. 03:30:34 I know the damper stops it from vibrating. I also know (because I tried it), that if you slowly push one key to make it silent, push another one it might resonate the string that is released but currently not vibrating. 03:34:27 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:41:40 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 03:42:30 -!- madbr has joined. 03:42:32 hey 03:43:11 hello 03:44:18 man, trying to do a pipelined/superscalar 32bit version of the 65816 is not so cool 03:44:40 the instruction set is just designed to stop up 03:45:53 Maybe you have to make up additional instructions or flags or whatever then, or require explicit pipelines and delays and so on in the program 03:46:25 the instruction set is completely full 03:46:29 -!- olsner has joined. 03:46:59 Or to modify things, especially if making 32-bits and so on you may need to modify some things I would think 03:47:13 mhm 03:48:35 Man, C++ pointer aliasing is awful... it's pretty much the one thing that prevents you from autovectorizing all sorts of code 03:48:58 Does the LLVM pointer aliasing work better? 03:49:36 I saw this cool optimization ICC did in some cases a bit ago where it actually makes a runtime branch to check for aliasing 03:49:51 so where it can prove there won't be aliasing, it can branch and do the simd optimizations on the non-aliasing side 03:50:11 OK, I suppose in some cases it might be useful. 03:51:33 fiora: yeah 03:51:48 the crusoe pushed that even further 03:52:01 it has protected memory load/store instructions 03:52:34 it doesn't actually store information, it writes to a store buffer 03:52:53 and once it can verify that no aliasing occured, it does the real write 03:53:10 that way it can reorder read/writes 03:53:37 llvm has an alias analysis class yes: http://llvm.org/docs/AliasAnalysis.html 03:53:44 don't a lot of modern machines do that internally? 03:53:59 I know at least intel chips actually do speculative loads where they try loading something assuming aliasing won't occur 03:54:04 and then redo the load if aliasing did occur 03:54:16 madbr: Yes I have seen that, what I mean, is it better than C++ if you enter the LLVM instructions to make aliasing? 03:55:11 Can you not improve the optimization with whatever that declaration is? 03:55:13 they have a thing in the optimization manual if I remember right about the case where code with lots of conflicts results in lots of wasted speculative loads, and how to avoid it 03:56:28 zzo: you can use some strange C++ keywords like noalias 03:57:03 zzo: there's also strict aliasing that helps (the rule that says that different types of pointers except char * can't alias) 03:57:10 Um... restrict, that one. 03:57:19 Oh that's not in C++ is it. 03:57:30 I think C++ has different aliasing rules from C but I'm not sure 03:57:38 «In C++, pointer arguments are assumed not to alias if they point to fundamentally different types ("strict aliasing" rules). This allows more optimizations to be done than in C.» uhhhhh ok then 03:57:40 yeah I can't remember 03:57:50 strict-aliasing isn't really a rule I think, it's more like 03:58:00 bike: yeah they have to do that 03:58:09 "set no-strict-aliasing to make things less likely to break if your code violates the rules" 03:58:18 or else you can do horrible stuff like alias to pointers of other things 03:58:23 I think LLVM has a kind of metadata for aliasing, to specify which types alias which others more specifically 03:58:29 so very fast everything aliases everything else 03:59:25 Fiora: Well, it would be better, having it you can set on each individual variable, what aliasing to use. I think GCC might have such a thing possibly? 03:59:59 um... the two keywords I know of are may_alias and restrict 04:00:14 __attribute__((may_alias)) lets you override the C aliasing rules 04:00:19 it's useful sometimes when you want to do horrible things 04:00:37 i love horrible things 04:00:37 restrict is just, this pointer won't alias anything else basically I think 04:00:47 restrict is in C99 or something now, isn't it? 04:00:54 Yeah, it's standard now 04:01:01 "it wasn't in C99 a while ago" 04:01:40 Bike: C99 only started existing in 2008 or so. 04:02:44 hey dudes, any security-minded types in here? wanna bounce something off ya re: nonces 04:02:47 Whoa, Man. 04:02:48 ℂ99 is a category where the objects are types and the arrows are undefined behavior. 04:03:05 Huh, c90 didn't have inline 04:03:45 myndzi: imo you should just say it into the abyss 04:03:58 ("thats a metaphor for this channel") 04:04:00 myndzi: What about it? 04:04:00 I think a lot of the c99 stuff got added to compilers as extensions first 04:04:08 and then they were like "oh well we should, like, standardize this" 04:04:22 Sounds like a reasonable way to add things. 04:04:22 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:04:45 I don't like a lot of the things C99 does (but I like some). 04:05:09 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 04:05:11 haha 04:05:15 yeah, i was talking somewhere else too 04:05:19 Fiora: wikipedia agrees so you're right 04:05:35 so in the context of web forms, nonces are useful to protect against blind submissions yeah? 04:05:53 but they don't add much other than that; if an attacker had access to the network traffic they could simply sniff the nonce and spoof the form submission directly 04:05:53 As in CSRF? 04:06:08 i suppose so, i don't know the exact technical definition there 04:06:25 The main goal is that you can't take someone's browser -- which is logged in -- and have it submit some evil request. 04:06:29 so, i'm moving a bunch of code from php pages to ajax stuff 04:06:31 Like /delete_my_account or something. 04:06:48 that's more about requiring reauthorization 04:06:57 if you were authenticated by cookie/session 04:07:04 ? 04:07:12 to prevent someone from issuing arbitrary commands 04:07:16 Or maybe we're talking about different things anyway. 04:07:17 you make them re-supply the password 04:07:22 Using HTTP/HTML stuff at all (even HTTPS) can make it very insecure in general. 04:07:23 For every possible action? 04:07:24 if they were "remembered" 04:07:33 no, just for important ones 04:07:41 billing, authentication related 04:07:42 OK, then take the most important unimportant action. 04:07:43 stuff like that 04:07:50 You still don't want some random person to be able to submit that. 04:08:01 sure, but a nonce doesn't protect against that 04:08:06 anyway, this isn't even the question 04:08:08 lol ;P 04:08:24 OK, never mind that. 04:08:26 the question is, is it worth using a nonce to protect against blind form submission if you reuse it? 04:08:30 You could make a SSH based system, to do secure stuff 04:08:35 i think so but it feels wrong to reuse anyway 04:08:49 What kind of blind form submission? 04:08:51 the only alternative would be to make ajax requests to get new nonces or something 04:09:05 by blind form submission i mean, submitting data to a form without having loaded the page that the form is on 04:09:13 directly entering a get or post url, for example 04:09:22 that's the only purpose i know of for including nonces with forms 04:09:37 Whom are you preventing from doing what here? 04:10:41 you should use "who" because it's the subject of the sentence 04:10:48 lol. 04:11:05 ? 04:11:12 That looks like "whom" to me. 04:11:36 No! You should use "wham". 04:11:39 whom is the obsolete form used for the direct object 04:11:47 questions are weird as shit though 04:12:05 haha, well i have a solution ;) 04:12:11 ajax form submission -> return new nonce 04:12:11 duh. 04:12:14 zzo38++ 04:12:31 OK, I don't understand the situation or what you're trying to prevent or allow. 04:12:43 I have now typed the 2013Feb26 Dungeons&Dragons game session recordings. 04:13:23 Do you like this? 04:13:50 i'm simply trying to implement good practices as i go :P 04:14:11 myndzi: Good! 04:14:37 Good practice #1: Understand what's even, like, going on, man. 04:14:44 Probably you do, but I don't. 04:14:45 i do understand it 04:14:46 ;) 04:15:03 in this case, the single-use token (nonce) prevents two things 04:15:08 1) multiple submission 04:15:08 zzo38: I like this. 04:15:14 2) 'blind' submission 04:15:36 it ensures that to submit data to a form, the user must 1) load the page, 2) enter the data on the form presented on that page and 3) submit that form 04:15:57 i'm uncertain of any other purposes 04:15:59 I think "worse-is-better" is better. 04:16:06 myndzi: OK. Why? 04:16:20 why would you want to prevent multiple submission, or why would you want to prevent blind submission? 04:16:26 i should think that's obvious 04:16:45 Is the user evil here, or is someone being evil to the user? 04:16:52 the latter 04:17:00 or the user could simply be being impatient 04:17:13 or typoing etc. (double enter) 04:17:19 -!- olsner has joined. 04:18:07 Impatience as in clicking Submit twice seems more like a UI thing than a security thing to me. 04:18:10 But anyway. 04:18:22 it's not a security thing 04:18:31 but it's prevented by the solution so *shrug* 04:18:36 or at least, accounted for 04:18:52 So someone is being evil to the user. What would they be able to do to the user without this thing? 04:19:03 submit arbitrary form data 04:19:19 in the event that they can get the user to visit a url 04:19:40 OK. So it *is* CSRF that you're worrying about. 04:19:56 you should use "who" because it's the subject of the sentence <-- no it is the direct object there, despite word order. "you are preventing _him_ from doing what here?" 04:19:56 i'm not worrying about anything 04:20:02 In that case a CSRF token should be fine. 04:20:16 And reusing it is not particularly awful. 04:20:18 i was simply wondering how to deal with this paradigm over ajax requests 04:20:42 i agree, but it feels dirty somehow 04:20:43 lol 04:20:48 luckily i don't have to 04:21:54 anyway, thanks 04:30:06 "'Marijuana cannon' used to fire drugs over US border seized in Mexico" 04:30:32 out of a sub I hope 04:30:41 nah just a pickup 04:30:45 but soon i'm sure 04:31:06 short-range submarine-launched marijuana missile 04:31:17 delivery straight to your home 04:33:26 the convenience 04:33:46 i predict quadcopter deliveries of marijuana will begin in SF within the decade 04:33:51 if they haven't already 04:37:23 Illegal drugs is an important part of the economy and makes people creative too. Legalizing it might cause problems for these reasons? 04:37:50 would drugs not make you creative if they were legal? 04:38:02 It won't. 04:38:15 Yeah would be a shame if we lost all that economic innovation from having gangs literally at war in Mexico 04:38:35 I have no problem if you want to use these drugs and make yourself dead and whatever, but making them legal might ruin the economy. 04:38:53 `addquote I have no problem if you want to use these drugs and make yourself dead and whatever, but making them legal might ruin the economy. 04:38:57 976) I have no problem if you want to use these drugs and make yourself dead and whatever, but making them legal might ruin the economy. 04:39:44 this is an... odd position to take 04:39:55 But seriously, broken window fallacy, etc. 04:40:09 I mean do you know how much the US spends on enforcement? 04:40:30 zzo38: so why does the drug only make you creative if it's illegal? 04:40:45 imo we should illegalize placebos 04:40:52 I think he means the creativity engendered by trying to get around the illegality. 04:40:55 Like drug cannons. 04:40:58 oh, heh 04:41:05 Yes, like that is what I meant. 04:41:08 we should make industrial strength placebos 04:41:12 well let's legalize marijuana and then they can make cocaine cannons instead 04:41:14 illegalise gazebo 04:41:14 s 04:41:15 it's better because of alliteration 04:41:21 Man's got a point. 04:41:28 kmc for ATF commissioner! 04:41:53 if elected I will personally consume more alcohol, tobacco, and firearms than any previous ATF commissioner 04:41:56 that is the promise i make 04:42:02 are we talking like actually eating guns 04:42:13 THE GUN IS GOOD 04:42:16 THE PENIS IS EVIL 04:42:39 you know how there's that presidential candidate whose platform is just the KJV 04:42:48 kmc's like that but with the Zardoz screenplay 04:42:55 yes 04:43:07 Stay close to me - inside my aura! 04:44:19 If only I could be a presidential candidate. :-( 04:44:19 the voice of the turtle is heard in the land 04:44:25 (that's a Zardoz quote *and* a bible quote) 04:44:46 shachaf: It's pretty easy! I mean, if you don't mind not being on the ballot. 04:44:58 Bike: Don't I have to be born in the US or something? 04:45:03 Nah. 04:45:14 Well, depends on president of what, I guess. 04:45:19 The CPUSA's VP candidate last year was Colombian, and the prez candidate was underage. 04:45:23 I think it was the CPUSA anyway. 04:45:27 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:46:15 Apparently I can't be president of .fi either. 04:46:21 Can I be president of #esoteric? 04:46:45 How do you write thirteen and a half in roman numbers? 04:47:15 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:47:20 XI\ 04:47:52 xıv 04:48:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 04:49:47 Oh, it was the Party for Socialism and Liberation. 05:03:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:21:36 Sgeo: Thanks! 05:23:42 shachaf, er? 05:24:26 For `olisting. 05:25:08 Ah 05:25:22 * Sgeo wonders if Blaze's monad could be made to fit the monad laws 05:25:45 what does that mean 05:25:53 Add a Return constructor. Make m >>= f pass () to f if m is anything other than Return. 05:26:07 -!- md_5 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:26:07 I _think_ that at least satisfies the first two laws 05:26:16 it's not quite a monad if it doesn't satisfy the monad laws, now is it 05:26:16 Haven't looked at the third yet. 05:26:25 Fine. Blaze's "monad" 05:26:36 Thinking about how it could be altered to fix it 05:26:37 people can talk about satisfying them modulo some equivalence relation 05:26:51 btw what's blaze's "monad" 05:27:01 monqy, Html. 05:27:17 https://github.com/jaspervdj/blaze-markup/blob/master/src/Text/Blaze/Internal.hs 05:27:18 is html a monad now 05:27:32 (MarkupM) 05:27:37 Why would Html be a monad? 05:27:37 monqy: Blaze's Monad. hth 05:27:49 shachaf: thank you 05:27:54 The author of the library acted like it was for some conveniences 05:28:04 Why would Html even be a type constructor? 05:28:12 Sgeo: this is bad 05:28:13 https://github.com/jaspervdj/blaze-markup/blob/master/src/Text/Blaze/Internal.hs#L156 05:28:16 Wasn't Blaze just like Writer Something except broken for some reason? 05:28:30 Sgeo: good instance 05:28:34 we should import it into lens 05:28:38 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:29:06 I guess that one is safe... 05:29:28 fsvo safe 05:29:29 Maybe. 05:29:35 glad they marked all those inline 05:30:01 it's about as safe as fromjust*LESS SAFE???? 05:30:12 "imo yes" 05:30:45 monqy: why,youcan't get bottom out of it canyou? 05:31:32 upon rereading, yeah i guess so 05:31:38 except 05:31:40 maybe not??? 05:31:50 what if you bind and then you have a bottom just sitting around 05:32:04 and then you try and force that bottom 05:32:09 bam dead 05:32:13 oh i thought you meant the functor instance 05:32:15 oh 05:32:19 "i didn't even see the monad instance" 05:32:31 ew that instance is bad 05:32:45 why would you make an instance like that 05:32:47 exactly 05:32:52 its so bad 05:33:01 why not just use writer.......................... 05:33:11 theres a nice monoid instance over there 05:33:21 what is even going on here 05:33:36 it makes me mad 05:33:45 -!- md_5 has joined. 05:33:51 (actually i was already mad to begin with) 05:34:00 It makes me MAD. 05:34:02 extramad??? 05:34:17 Because MAD is even more mad than mad. 05:34:58 -!- keb has joined. 05:35:05 `welcome keb 05:35:06 keb: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:35:10 so is the point of this instance just to abuse donotation 05:35:18 But mad is more mad than MAD. In fact, MAD isn't mad at all; it's just sort of peacefully introspective. 05:35:44 this instance: seriously awful?? 05:35:48 shachaf, one of the examples of using Blaze uses forM_ 05:35:50 shachaf: well you can use functions that expect monads??? but you'll probably get a lot of bottoms sitting around 05:36:06 monqy: not if they assume the monad laws......... 05:36:08 @type forM_ 05:36:09 Monad m => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m () 05:36:13 shachaf: well, that too 05:36:20 which i typically assume 05:37:11 @type foldMap 05:37:16 (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m 05:37:30 * tswett gestures. 05:37:37 shachaf, is it ethical to use a Writer monad primarily for the do notation? 05:38:04 using writer is better than making your own broken instance at least 05:38:36 Is "Is it ethical" the central question of Haskell? 05:38:49 yes you've figured it out 05:38:57 The key. 05:39:03 I think we should build the endokleislicategory monoid and use that with writer 05:39:05 The key to Sgeo, also. 05:39:06 so we can embed other monads 05:39:18 in a writer's accumulator 05:39:25 yes 05:39:44 http://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/articles/2006/12/06/divide_zero_feature.shtml 05:39:58 oh ive seen that 05:40:18 Man that was funny when it was new. 05:40:25 I haven't even seen it before. 05:40:28 remember that guys other stuff too 05:40:59 Yeah. It's good stuff. 05:41:07 monqy: no 05:41:21 * tswett ponders Haskell type magickery for cryptography. 05:41:57 monqy: "what other stuff" 05:42:11 We need to turn chosen-key-relations-in-the-middle into Haskell stuff. 05:42:21 Oh right, I forgot. I came here to say a specific thing. 05:42:34 well i've always heard homomorphic encryption explained in cat theory terms, that's pretty much haskell 05:42:56 shachaf: http://www.bookofparagon.com/ 05:42:57 Cat theory? That's pretty popular on the Internet. 05:43:15 I have a cat on me right now. 05:43:20 Her egory is missing. 05:43:23 you should never tell anyone that According to a friend of mine, you don't like pancakes. 05:43:31 monqy: Oh, christ. 05:43:48 Anderson has been trying to market his ideas for transreal arithmetic and "Perspex machines" to investors. He claims that his work can produce computers which run "orders of magnitude faster than today's computers".[7][12] He has also claimed that it can help solve such problems as quantum gravity,[7] the mind-body connection,[13] consciousness[13] and free will.[13] 05:44:23 monqy: how does it compare to vortex math 05:44:34 it's in a similar vein 05:44:37 Related: 05:44:39 Holy shit, I found the solution to the prime numbers. They are a slightly altered fibonacci like sequence on a translated number line! What do I have to be able to show for my discovery to be taken seriously and what issues are there in math regarding primes are there? I don't want people getting credit using my discovery when I can do it myself. 05:44:45 Oh yeah,[15] I've heard of those.[2] Kind of a silly[6] idea, isn't it.[6] 05:45:21 Bike: good 05:45:27 Bike: where is this 05:46:11 4chan. 05:47:02 is there any followup i want to know more 05:47:53 http://boards.4chan.org/sci/res/5569709 05:47:58 The symbol for nullity (bottom) 05:50:26 "literally no idea what everyone here is babbling on about, OP found a proof that a countably infinite set lies in bijection with a different countably infinite set." 05:52:22 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:52:59 gosh this all went down today? 05:53:10 4chan is hell 05:53:22 Only the latest bullshit news from your friendly village bicycle. 05:53:33 more like villain bicycle 05:56:28 that striping pattern is the result of factors of 3 05:56:29 "They are a well define sequence but lack a generating functions." 05:56:32 Why, that's not true. 05:57:08 One generating function for the prime numbers is the function f(x) = \sum_{n=1}^\infty p_n x^n, where p_n is the nth prime number. 05:58:02 I have a simple algorithm that generates all primes which are multiples of 5. I'm proofreading the paper now, and will submit it this weekend. 05:58:06 tswett: :-) have you noticed that 4chan is hell 06:01:23 so far I have found a way to generate the first 50 primes using this algorithm 06:01:52 "Define the meaning of the limit of a function using only rational numbers." 06:02:13 Needless to say. 06:06:10 that thread is horrible 06:06:39 what did you expect 06:06:52 nothing 06:10:32 why do they even have a science and math forum, what do they expect to get out of it? 06:10:46 gems like this 06:11:46 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Quit: ragequit). 06:12:05 Why will some programs fail to follow the principle of extended ASCII? 06:12:17 There's a principle of extended ASCII? 06:12:18 -!- cantcode has joined. 06:12:24 It's a zzoprinciple. 06:13:43 The principle of extended ASCII is that the codes 0x00 to 0x7F are always ASCII, and that the non-ASCII codes are not used for commands and that kinds of stuff (and I didn't just make up this principle). 06:14:08 Is "(and I didn't just make up this principle)" part of the principle? 06:14:34 No 06:14:44 At least, I don't think so. 06:15:13 -!- keb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:15:51 join #erotic 06:16:05 hi 06:16:09 woops forgot the slash 06:16:50 … 06:16:55 Does #erotic real? 06:16:58 Does the filename need a slash? 06:17:38 Does #esoteric have an auxilary channel for erotic internet roleplay? 06:17:47 zzo38: no but I like it better with it, harry/draco all the way 06:17:49 erotic esolangs? 06:18:11 does fuckfuck count 06:18:59 hm 06:19:07 maybe if you wrote some erotic fiction that is also a fuckfuck program 06:19:56 If I write erotic monqy/shachaf fanfiction is it actually nonfiction? Is it Turing complete? Does erotic fanfiction form a monad if it has shachaf in it? 06:20:20 all excellent questions 06:21:02 I'm pretty sure the slash operator forms a monoid. 06:22:04 hi 06:22:06 are you sure it's even associative 06:22:40 Oh, maybe you're right... 06:22:45 I think I can invert it too though. 06:22:55 The identity can be Sgeo. 06:23:00 ok 06:23:03 I love shachaf 06:23:42 don't we all 06:33:32 I found on Wikipedia, the roman numbers for one half is actually S. 06:33:59 what is the roman numbers for epsilon 06:34:29 (actually without the dot; because "S" is 1/2 and "S." is 7/12) 06:34:58 I don't know what is the roman numbers for epsilon. 06:38:32 zzo38: is there notation for other numbers of twelfths besides six and seven? 06:38:48 Yes, a colon means 1/6 06:38:53 A dot means 1/12 06:39:08 Look it up in Wikipedia for information 06:40:03 So now I know how to write the name of the "pope" of one of the lesser-known churches I have written about in the Dungeons&Dragons game, using roman numbers. 06:40:23 He has fractions in his name? 06:40:58 Yes. 06:41:04 Meaning what? 06:41:39 Meaning fractions. 06:41:54 I mean, what do they mean in the context of his name. 06:42:30 Usually "Ted Dicksterson III" means "the Ted Dicksterson after Ted Dicksterson II", I don't get how that works with fractions. 06:43:35 Well, for some reason (not precisely known, but there might be theories), one of them taking that name is numbered by a half. 06:44:09 Bike, you should play Frog Fractions to help you learn about fractions. 06:44:12 (Sorry, I'm obsessed) 06:45:03 It is of the church of Gxxyuxihuvxi, but instead they will usually say "the deity whose name shall not be mentioned because is difficult to pronounce" instead of their proper name. 06:45:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:45:35 How is it pronounced? 06:45:58 It is difficult. 06:46:45 tell us using phonetic alphabet : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet 06:47:01 x-sampa is also acceptable if you're familiar with that 06:47:14 One problem is that I don't know how to pronounce, so using symbols won't help! 06:47:48 "Gxxyuxihuvxi" is just the written form of the name (and only when using the English alphabet); not the spoken form. 06:52:53 Sgeo this hardly seems very fraction-related at all! 06:53:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:54:38 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 06:55:35 The points are fractions, the score is displayed as fraction. Therefore, you're learning about fractions! 06:55:46 Actually they're floats now. 06:55:52 This is pretty advanced. 06:56:28 `smlist 06:56:34 shachaf monqy elliott 06:56:48 !!!!! 06:57:10 Have you looked through the possible upgrades? 06:58:06 i've uninstalled lockon twice 06:59:27 Yeah... it's gonna take forever to get that Warp Drive. Stupid economy :( 06:59:37 I read somewhere that the E0x command in .MOD affects the "LED filter" but OpenMPT doesn't have that command? 06:59:44 (Hint: You need to get the Warp Drive) 06:59:49 Bike: are you playing frog fractions 07:00:19 Sgeo: don't give Bike hints................ just because you got hints doesn't mean you have to spread them on 07:00:32 which part of frog fractions are you on Bike 07:00:52 (I don't know if I have any music files using that command, but still some documents says it is valid commands) 07:01:07 The part where I got bored because everything is slow on this machine, and went back to listening to Staircase Whip on infinite repeat. 07:01:45 Obviously, "Gxxyuxihuvxi" is pronounced /gksksˈjʌksɪhʌvksi/. 07:01:54 Thanks. 07:02:25 tswett: To you it is. OK 07:02:59 But maybe it is still difficult anyways 07:03:36 I'd say /ksks'jʌks/ is difficult yes 07:04:05 shachaf, maybe Bike needs a hint? 07:04:21 /ksksˈjʌks/ isn't a part of that I have difficulty pronouncing. 07:05:20 Also the name is in English letter because is what we have; the proper letters are difficult. 07:05:51 save frog fractions for when you have a good computer?? frog fractions deserves it 07:06:07 Mmhm. 07:06:14 Can it be pronounced correctly using only the human body? 07:06:19 (And the air surrounding it?) 07:06:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:06:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:06:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:06:46 Probably not. 07:07:19 It isn't meant for human to pronounce, but it is difficult for others too anyways. 07:08:16 Reminds me of that one Fry and Laurie skit about a guy named "Nippl-e", pronounced by dropping a pen held horizontally from a height of about a foot. 07:09:31 Over what kind of surface? 07:11:19 A desk or something. 07:13:08 If I drop it into water, can that be called an accent? 07:14:12 Well, any way of pronouncing things is an accent. 07:14:46 The only question is whether or not it would sound significantly different. 07:15:38 (Do I pronounce "n" differently from most people? Why, yes I do. I pronounce it with my tongue, whereas other people pronounce it with *their* tongues.) 07:16:20 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:16:28 I pronounce it with your tongue. 07:24:53 At this rate my fanfiction will be outdone by the channel itself. 07:25:23 I'd do it with a click 07:25:37 Derek *klk!* 07:25:54 Bike: Aeronautic fanfiction, right? 07:26:05 i love airplanes 07:27:10 Well, you'll love being fucked by one then. 07:33:37 -!- carado has joined. 07:37:58 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:38:13 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:41:30 -!- fftw has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:44:14 -!- augur has joined. 07:49:36 -!- fftw has joined. 07:57:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:57:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:07:00 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:08:30 -!- rodgort has joined. 08:10:34 @ask nooodl Why didn't you put langtons ant on rosettacode? 08:10:34 Consider it noted. 08:13:15 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 08:30:53 -!- atehwa has joined. 08:42:39 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: slep). 08:53:03 -!- Haz has joined. 08:53:46 lua sucks 08:53:49 suck it, nerds 08:53:50 -!- Haz has left. 08:56:26 ok 09:01:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:02:39 monqy: Haz sure showed you huh 09:04:18 yeah totally 09:15:59 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:28:32 I found Haz. 09:30:16 In #vidyadev 09:30:24 Courtesy of #lua 09:34:51 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:38:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:48:57 -!- carado has joined. 10:39:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:41:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:45:13 -!- nooga has joined. 11:51:47 -!- carado_ has joined. 12:24:38 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:24:40 -!- Frooxius has quit (Client Quit). 12:24:52 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:26:33 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 12:31:41 -!- mroman_ has joined. 12:35:45 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 12:35:45 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 12:35:45 -!- Sanky has quit (*.net *.split). 12:36:16 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:37:07 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 13:03:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:12:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:01:53 -!- boily has joined. 14:02:54 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:15:28 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:26:42 fizzie: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Undefined_behavior&diff=next&oldid=35561 is incorrect, no? 14:27:18 elliott: it is 14:27:22 a gets modified twice 14:27:32 but the comment beforehand is also wrong 14:27:39 it is un*specified*, not un*defined* 14:28:20 the original example was UB 14:28:31 right 14:28:38 well i nominate you to fix the article 14:28:42 if it is broken 14:29:40 fixed 14:30:48 thank you for your services to america 14:31:14 coppro: shouldn't one of those comments be "unspecified" or such 14:31:21 or do I know even less about C than I thought 14:31:25 I'm not fixing discussion posts 14:31:43 that's like trying to fix people who are wrong on the internet 14:31:50 no i meant 14:31:53 the comments in the article 14:31:57 in the C code 14:32:00 no 14:32:04 it is undefined in both cases 14:32:07 ok 14:32:44 I believe there is actually at least one compiler where b = b++ managed to add 2 14:33:34 mm 14:36:58 I don't want to go to class :( 14:37:36 actually, there are a large number of things I need to do today, and I want to do none of them 14:51:45 you have to go by small steps, piece by piece. attack the problem from the beginning. 14:51:45 boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 14:52:19 no you have to give up 14:52:27 and cry and flail around wildly and then get nothing done 14:52:28 by which I mean: don't do the first task, then don't do the second after it. 14:52:34 oh that works too 14:52:41 an innovative alternate approach 14:52:59 what if you have to be doing the third task while not doing the second task 14:53:41 or worse: what if you're stuck in a livelock not doing multiple tasks at the same time? 14:54:00 we need a non-scheduler to schedule not doing things. 14:54:30 I guess I'll begin to procrastinate on that starting tomorrow. 14:55:29 @tell oerjan I fail to see how infinite recursion breaks total ordering. but then, IANAM. (I am not a mathematician) 14:55:30 Consider it noted. 14:56:16 neither is oerjan, he just plays one on IRC. 14:56:19 plays one on Ph.D. 14:57:32 OTOH, I *should* be able to understand this. I remember having painful memories of math classes in university. 15:37:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:42:11 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 15:52:05 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:02:27 haha 16:02:33 total ordering of what? 16:05:43 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 16:12:39 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:21:36 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 16:21:47 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:34:22 -!- Sanky has joined. 16:45:10 -!- Bike has joined. 16:45:18 coppro, your face 16:45:48 Phantom_Hoover: my face is well-ordered! 16:46:00 well that's just your choice 16:51:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:51:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:51:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:56:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:07:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:14:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:25:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:31:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:31:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:31:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:35:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:37:53 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:40:09 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:40:09 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:40:09 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:41:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:44:44 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:45:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:56:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:56:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:56:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:00:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:20:08 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:20:36 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:56:49 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 19:11:11 -!- Snowyowl_ has joined. 19:13:23 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:15:47 -!- NuclearMeltdown has quit (Quit: User disconnected). 19:16:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:17:33 -!- Snowyowl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:23:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:24:06 Hello 19:24:36 Hey, AnotherTest 19:24:59 `welcome AnotherTest 19:25:10 AnotherTest: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:25:11 mroman_: I continuously seem to fail installing the packages required to build the burlesque interpreter. 19:25:31 Thanks for the welcome, now I have the right to 19:25:44 'WeLcOmE doesthiswork 19:25:56 oh right 19:26:01 `WeLcOmE doesthiswork 19:26:05 DoEsThIsWoRk: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 19:26:40 `wElCoMe AnotherTest 19:26:42 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElCoMe: not found 19:28:38 `WELCOME doesthiswork 19:28:41 DOESTHISWORK: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 19:28:57 i'd already seen that one 19:29:31 Hm. I'm not sure if you can do anything else 19:29:43 it's missing the one where random letters are repeated, it's the style of the times 19:30:19 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:41:12 !blsq "5+2*5" "+";;{"-";;{"*";;{"/";;{rd}m[}m[}m[}m[}m[{{{ {.*} r[ } m[{.*} r[} m[{.-} r[} m[{.+} r[ 19:41:13 {{{{5.0}}} {{{2.0} {5.0}}}} 19:41:18 hm 19:41:35 !blsq {{{{5.0}}} {{{2.0} {5.0}}}} {{{ {.*} r[ } m[{.*} r[} m[{.-} r[} m[{.+} r[ 19:41:35 15.0 19:41:49 well that's weird, I really need a decent interpreter though 19:42:18 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 20:07:43 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:15:33 -!- monqy has joined. 20:19:19 -!- carado has joined. 20:29:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:30:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:30:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:34:06 Add a Return constructor. Make m >>= f pass () to f if m is anything other than Return. <-- that's basically how you make a free monad. although you need to disassemble m when it contains >>= too. 20:34:06 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:34:10 @messages 20:34:11 boily said 5h 38m 42s ago: I fail to see how infinite recursion breaks total ordering. but then, IANAM. (I am not a mathematician) 20:35:30 @tell boily a total ordering requires always returning a comparison result (LT, EQ or GT.) you cannot do that if you infinitely recurse, can you. 20:35:30 Consider it noted. 20:36:33 bottom is a perfectly valid comparison result 20:36:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:36:44 FreeFull: not in a total order. 20:37:27 bottom is kinda nasty. 20:37:27 boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:37:42 @tell boily note i don't mean that the _values_ are infinite structures, but that _comparing_ them is an non-halting operation because of infinite recursion. although if your EQ is perfect structural identity you cannot really avoid the latter with the former. 20:37:43 Consider it noted. 20:37:49 oh there he is :P 20:38:05 Trivia: I never actually fixed the Bootleg Chinese Graphics Card problem 20:38:37 is that some kind of complexity theoretic problem or philosophical thought-experiment 20:38:50 No 20:38:54 kmc: if it isn't, it needs to be 20:39:24 > :t EQ 20:39:26 :1:1: parse error on input `:' 20:39:27 :t EQ 20:39:29 Ordering 20:39:35 Taneb: if we can make spam messages into esolang names, then we can make the Bootleg Chinese Graphics Card problem 20:39:53 It sounds graph theory ish 20:39:53 into a theoretical thought experiment 20:39:55 I like how Ordering has an Ord instance 20:40:01 > EQ > LT 20:40:04 True 20:40:06 > EQ > GT 20:40:08 False 20:40:29 FreeFull: istr there's some nice application of that 20:40:37 oerjan: Probably sorting 20:40:53 It's also a monoid 20:40:58 > EQ `mappend` GT 20:40:59 Terminated 20:41:01 > EQ `mappend` GT 20:41:03 GT 20:41:04 great monoid 20:41:15 > LT `mappend` GT 20:41:17 LT 20:41:28 hm maybe the monoid was involved 20:41:40 It's not a group, though 20:41:57 > mconcat $ zipWith compare [0..] [0, 2..] 20:41:59 LT 20:42:29 pretty sure that's the same as compare on lists 20:43:33 > compare [0..] [0,2..] 20:43:35 LT 20:44:35 whoah whoah whoah, zzo apparently spent time on something awful 20:45:09 hm i think you can zipWith Traverse instances, although you need to choose one of the elements to give the final structure 20:45:26 *one of the zipped values 20:45:50 Phantom_Hoover: horrible, what did he do 20:46:03 or is that something awful the webcomic 20:46:48 oh it's not a webcomic 20:46:57 Phantom_Hoover, sounds awful 20:46:58 oh that's something positive 20:47:16 oerjan why are you living under this rock 20:47:27 > Data.Foldable.foldl (\x acc -> pure x) :: (Foldable f, Applicative f) => f a -> f a 20:47:30 Couldn't match type `a' with `t0 b0 -> a' 20:47:30 `a' is a rigid type variable b... 20:47:45 Oh wait, need the empty 20:47:47 Phantom_Hoover: i've heard of both, i just somehow confused the names 20:47:49 > Data.Foldable.foldl (\x acc -> pure x) :: (Foldable f, Applicative f) => f a -> f a -> f a 20:47:52 Couldn't match type `a' with `f a' 20:47:52 `a' is a rigid type variable bound by... 20:48:03 Ooh 20:48:08 That's why it didn't work 20:48:31 hm i think you might even be able to zip a Traversable with a Foldable. 20:48:58 well, Foldable has toList, so that's pretty obvious 20:50:52 `seen Ngevd 20:50:56 2013-02-24 20:51:27: `list 20:51:05 `seen boily 20:51:05 `seen atriq 20:51:05 Does Foldable have fromList too? 20:51:13 2013-02-28 20:51:05: `seen boily 20:51:15 not lately; try `seen atriq ever 20:51:17 FreeFull, no 20:51:33 Nope 20:51:33 `seen edwardk ever 20:51:47 2012-07-24 16:03:20: and we also don't have coexponentials 20:52:43 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:52:54 Is there any typeclass for datatypes that have empty elements? 20:53:28 I guess monoid 20:53:30 Possibly Default 20:53:43 :t let zippy g ts fs = flip evalState (toList fs) . flip traverse ts $ \x -> do (y:ys) <- get; put ys; return $ g x y in zippy 20:53:45 Not in scope: `toList' 20:53:45 Perhaps you meant one of these: 20:53:45 `Data.Foldable.toList' (imported from Data.Foldable), 20:53:49 FreeFull: what's an "empty element"? 20:53:55 :t let zippy g ts fs = flip evalState (Data.Foldable.toList fs) . flip traverse ts $ \x -> do (y:ys) <- get; put ys; return $ g x y in zippy 20:53:57 (Foldable t, Traversable t1) => (a1 -> a -> b) -> t1 a1 -> t a -> t1 b 20:54:40 `seen Phantom____Hoover 20:54:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:54:48 not lately; try `seen Phantom____Hoover ever 20:54:51 `seen Phantom____Hoover ever 20:55:10 :t Data.Foldable.foldl (\x acc -> x) mempty :: (Foldable f, Applicative f, Monoid f) => f a -> f a 20:55:12 Expecting one more argument to `f' 20:55:13 In an expression type signature: 20:55:13 (Foldable f, Applicative f, Monoid f) => f a -> f a 20:55:23 No output. 20:56:20 Failure 20:56:39 :t Data.Foldable.foldl (\x acc -> pure x) mempty 20:56:41 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = f0 a0 20:56:41 In the first argument of `pure', namely `x' 20:56:41 In the expression: pure x 20:56:52 Ah, dammit 20:57:05 :t Data.Foldable.foldr mappend mempty 20:57:06 (Foldable t, Monoid b) => t b -> b 20:57:07 !blsq "!eyB" <- 20:57:07 "Bye!" 20:57:27 :t pure . Data.Foldable.foldl mappend mempty 20:57:29 (Applicative f, Foldable t, Monoid b) => t b -> f b 20:57:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:57:48 :t Data.Foldable.mconcat 20:57:50 Not in scope: `Data.Foldable.mconcat' 20:57:51 Perhaps you meant one of these: 20:57:51 `Data.Foldable.concat' (imported from Data.Foldable), 20:57:53 That's not what I wanted 20:57:55 :t Data.Foldable.concat 20:57:56 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:57:57 Foldable t => t [a] -> [a] 20:58:02 bah 20:59:54 I thought "Ooh, lists are monoids" but then it turned out to be a stupid idea 21:00:02 -!- heroux has joined. 21:00:41 :t foldMap id 21:00:43 (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m 21:00:48 :t fold 21:00:50 (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m 21:00:57 OKAY 21:03:16 :t \f -> flip $ appEndo . foldMap (Endo . f) 21:03:17 Foldable t => (a -> c -> c) -> c -> t a -> c 21:03:38 :t foldr 21:03:39 (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b 21:03:45 :t Data.Foldable.foldr 21:03:46 Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b 21:03:53 OKAY 21:04:35 :t DF.foldr 21:04:37 Couldn't find qualified module. 21:05:00 :t Data.Map.insert 21:05:02 Ord k => k -> a -> M.Map k a -> M.Map k a 21:05:07 :t Map.insert 21:05:09 Couldn't find qualified module. 21:05:10 :t M.insert 21:05:12 Ord k => k -> a -> M.Map k a -> M.Map k a 21:05:42 :t (\f -> flip $ appEndo . foldMap (Endo . f), \f -> Data.Foldable.foldr (mappend . f) mempty) 21:05:43 (Foldable t1, Foldable t, Monoid b) => ((a -> c -> c) -> c -> t a -> c, (a1 -> b) -> t1 a1 -> b) 21:05:59 foldr in terms of foldMap, foldMap in terms of foldr 21:06:00 i recall when only M worked. i suppose having the fully qualified is an improvement, although it should have both really 21:06:41 :t forever (return ()) 21:06:43 Monad m => m b 21:06:55 Taneb: yep, those are default methods, no? 21:07:07 oerjan, roughly 21:07:19 *method defaults 21:07:20 Those are the default methods as written by me who's just had a beer 21:07:20 oerjan: erm I think Foo.Bar.baz should *always* work if you have it imported 21:08:07 elliott: oh even if you import it otherwise? anyway my thought is that there should be a more principled choice of abbreviations, like have the initialism always working 21:08:18 so DM.insert 21:08:31 admittedly this _can_ cause conflicts 21:08:47 (do Data.Monoid and Data.Map have any conflicting names?) 21:09:16 hello? 21:09:20 (I don't think so) 21:09:22 Hey, Snowyowl 21:09:23 Snowyowl: g'day 21:09:31 (sorry, just checking whether I'd timed out or not) 21:09:38 (it doesn't always say) 21:09:47 @ping 21:09:47 pong 21:09:49 `ping 21:09:51 pong 21:09:54 ^ping 21:10:02 I forgot about that. 21:10:07 fungot... 21:10:07 Taneb: where was i truncated? 21:10:18 ^def ping ul (pong)S 21:10:18 Defined. 21:10:21 (that's... actually appropriate) 21:10:28 ^ping 21:10:29 pong 21:10:33 !ping 21:10:37 ~ping 21:10:38 Pong! 21:10:42 Pong! 21:10:52 metasepia is very enthusiastic 21:10:56 elliott: in OCaml, Foo.Bar.baz works even if you don't have it imported 21:11:01 !help interpreters 21:11:02 ​Sorry, I have no help for interpreters! 21:11:03 the import is only neded to be able to use it unqualified 21:11:06 you're all just happy I've found a legitimate use for !ping 21:11:11 !help languages 21:11:12 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 21:11:15 !help userinterps 21:11:15 ​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 21:11:22 !help languages 21:11:22 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 21:11:32 !userinterps 21:11:32 ​Installed user interpreters: about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sf 21:11:47 !addinterp ping unlambda ````.p.o.n.gi 21:11:48 ​There is already an interpreter for ping! 21:11:52 oops 21:11:56 !numberwant 7 21:12:00 !ping 21:12:00 !show ping 21:12:01 c puts("Pong!"); 21:12:04 Pong! 21:12:28 !show monqy 21:12:29 haskell import Data.Char; main = interact (map toLower) 21:12:30 !google bastille 21:12:31 http://google.com/search?q=bastille 21:12:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: kernel update, restarting). 21:12:54 !monqy THis is pretty cool I guess 21:13:08 runghcXXXX26454.hs: epollWait: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor) \ runghcXXXX26454.hs: : hGetContents: invalid argument (Invalid argument) \ runghcXXXX26454.hs: ioManagerDie: write: Bad file descriptor 21:13:13 v.cool 21:13:24 EgoBot... 21:13:25 Gregor: OOPS 21:14:47 !haskell print "Hi!" 21:14:51 ​"Hi!" 21:15:05 !haskell main = print "Hi!" 21:15:12 ​"Hi!" 21:15:15 wat 21:15:23 !monqy What is happening here 21:15:31 runghcXXXX27859.hs: epollWait: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor) \ runghcXXXX27859.hs: : hGetContents: invalid argument (Invalid argument) \ runghcXXXX27859.hs: ioManagerDie: write: Bad file descriptor 21:15:33 !haskell print "Hi!"; main = print "Hi!" 21:15:36 probaly has to do with the 'input' interact wants 21:15:40 ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX27964.hs:1:1: \ Parse error: naked expression at top level 21:16:18 ``just my guess,, 21:16:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `just: not found 21:16:28 !addinterp test haskell print "Hi!" 21:16:28 ​There is already an interpreter for test! 21:16:35 !show test 21:16:35 That is not a user interpreter! 21:16:42 WAT 21:16:43 !hide test 21:16:50 !test this 21:17:12 !help languages 21:17:13 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 21:17:21 !delinterp test 21:17:22 ​test is not a user interpreter. 21:17:27 !addinterp test haskell print "Hi!" 21:17:28 ​There is already an interpreter for test! 21:17:32 !addinterp qqq haskell getLine >>= putStrLn 21:17:33 ​Interpreter qqq installed. 21:17:38 !qqq break please 21:17:41 break please 21:17:43 :0 21:17:46 oops 21:17:50 !delinterp qqq 21:17:50 ​Interpreter qqq deleted. 21:17:57 !addinterp qqq haskell interact id 21:17:57 ​Interpreter qqq installed. 21:18:03 !qqq hello?? 21:18:05 hello?? 21:18:09 HMM 21:18:09 fancy 21:18:10 :-0 21:18:18 !show monqy 21:18:19 haskell import Data.Char; main = interact (map toLower) 21:18:33 !monqy test 21:18:39 runghcXXXX31619.hs: epollWait: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor) \ runghcXXXX31619.hs: : hGetContents: invalid argument (Invalid argument) \ runghcXXXX31619.hs: ioManagerDie: write: Bad file descriptor 21:18:44 !delinterp monqy 21:18:45 ​Interpreter monqy deleted. 21:18:47 !delinterp qqq 21:18:47 ​Interpreter qqq deleted. 21:18:55 oh noes, you deleted monqy 21:18:58 !addinterp tanebdk haskell module Main where import Data.Char; main = interact (map toLower) 21:18:58 ​Interpreter tanebdk installed. 21:19:06 !tanebdk Test 21:19:09 !addinterp monqy haskell import Data.Char; main = interact (map toLower) 21:19:09 ​Interpreter monqy installed. 21:19:10 !addinterp qqq haskell import Data.Char; main = putStrLn "hi" 21:19:11 ​Interpreter qqq installed. 21:19:12 runghcXXXX32222.hs: : hGetContents: invalid argument (Invalid argument) \ runghcXXXX32222.hs: epollWait: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor) \ runghcXXXX32222.hs: ioManagerDie: write: Bad file descriptor 21:19:13 !monqy test 21:19:19 !qqq test 21:19:21 runghcXXXX32409.hs: epollWait: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor) \ runghcXXXX32409.hs: : hGetContents: invalid argument (Invalid argument) \ runghcXXXX32409.hs: ioManagerDie: write: Bad file descriptor 21:19:25 hi 21:19:35 !delinterp tanebdk 21:19:35 ​Interpreter tanebdk deleted. 21:19:44 maybe i have to add monqy and then it will work...................... 21:19:57 !delinterp qqq 21:19:57 ​Interpreter qqq deleted. 21:20:05 hm i wonder if it has something to do with how !haskell tries both ghci and module form 21:20:11 maybe it breaks on the first one 21:20:25 !delinterp monqy 21:20:26 ​Interpreter monqy deleted. 21:21:05 !addinterp monqy haskell import Data.Char; interact (map toLower) 21:21:06 ​Interpreter monqy installed. 21:21:10 !monqy test 21:21:16 ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX888.hs:1:19: \ Parse error: naked expression at top level 21:21:23 ok not that 21:21:29 !delinterp monqy 21:21:30 ​Interpreter monqy deleted. 21:21:34 Maybe it has an old GHCi 21:21:42 yeah 21:21:46 !addinterp qqq haskell import Data.Char; main = interact id 21:21:46 ​Interpreter qqq installed. 21:21:50 !qqq hello?? 21:21:56 !addinterp tanebdk haskell :m + Data.Char; interact id 21:21:56 ​Interpreter tanebdk installed. 21:21:56 runghcXXXX1286.hs: epollWait: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor) \ runghcXXXX1286.hs: : hGetContents: invalid argument (Invalid argument) \ runghcXXXX1286.hs: ioManagerDie: write: Bad file descriptor 21:22:02 !tanebdk hello? 21:22:09 syntax: :module [+/-] [*]M1 ... [*]Mn \ \ /tmp/runghcXXXX1594.hs:1:1: parse error on input `:' 21:22:15 heh 21:22:29 ; not accepted in ghci 21:22:34 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:22:34 !delinterp tanebdk 21:22:34 ​Interpreter tanebdk deleted. 21:22:38 !addinterp tanebdk haskell :m + Data.Char\n interact id 21:22:38 ​Interpreter tanebdk installed. 21:22:44 !tanebdk long shot 21:22:50 !delinterp qqq 21:22:51 ​Interpreter qqq deleted. 21:22:52 syntax: :module [+/-] [*]M1 ... [*]Mn \ \ /tmp/runghcXXXX2496.hs:1:1: parse error on input `:' 21:23:00 !delinterp tanebdk 21:23:00 ​Interpreter tanebdk deleted. 21:23:21 !addinterp qqq haskell import Data.Char; main = print (toLower 'B') 21:23:22 ​Interpreter qqq installed. 21:23:23 !qqq 21:23:31 ​'b' 21:23:59 !delinterp qqq 21:23:59 ​Interpreter qqq deleted. 21:24:29 !addinterp monqy haskell import Data.Char; main = putStr . map toLower =<< getContents 21:24:30 ​Interpreter monqy installed. 21:24:34 !monqy test 21:24:41 runghcXXXX5034.hs: epollWait: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor) \ runghcXXXX5034.hs: : hGetContents: invalid argument (Invalid argument) \ runghcXXXX5034.hs: ioManagerDie: write: Bad file descriptor 21:24:46 ok that didn't work 21:24:56 it's getContents that breaks 21:25:08 this is some deep stuff 21:26:03 presumably stdin is something weird? 21:26:24 it worked nicely in 'ghci mode' 21:26:31 weird??? 21:26:50 monqy: um where? 21:27:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:27:12 !addinterp qqq haskell getContents >>= putStr 21:27:13 ​Interpreter qqq installed. 21:27:15 !qqq hello 21:27:18 hello 21:27:50 oh 21:28:38 !delinterp monqy 21:28:39 ​That interpreter doesn't exist! 21:28:41 !delinterp monqy 21:28:42 ​Interpreter monqy deleted. 21:30:36 @hoogle :: IO String 21:30:37 Prelude getContents :: IO String 21:30:37 System.IO getContents :: IO String 21:30:37 Prelude getLine :: IO String 21:30:41 !addinterp monqy haskell import Data.Char; main = putStr . map toLower =<< getLine 21:30:42 ​Interpreter monqy installed. 21:30:48 !monqy test 21:30:54 runghcXXXX7396.hs: : hGetLine: invalid argument (Invalid argument) 21:30:59 fff 21:31:06 ok it's _not_ just getContents 21:31:41 it may seem that !haskell with module format simply doesn't have a working stdin 21:31:46 monqy is hard..... not like monoids!!!!!!!! 21:31:50 @tell Gregor it may seem that !haskell with module format simply doesn't have a working stdin 21:31:51 Consider it noted. 21:31:59 (reference for the viewers at home: monoids are well-established to be so easy) 21:32:03 `? monqu 21:32:04 monqu? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:32:06 `? monqy 21:32:07 The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 21:32:18 !delinterp monqy 21:32:18 ​That interpreter doesn't exist! 21:32:20 !delinterp monqy 21:32:21 ​Interpreter monqy deleted. 21:32:26 bloody final space 21:32:42 @tell itidus21 ancient chinese mystery? 21:32:42 Consider it noted. 21:32:57 you have to use @ask not @tell 21:33:40 !addinterp monqy haskell http://oerjan.nvg.org/monqy 21:33:41 whoa 21:33:43 ​Interpreter monqy installed. 21:33:49 !monqy TEST now 21:33:55 syntax: :module [+/-] [*]M1 ... [*]Mn \ \ /tmp/runghcXXXX8717.hs:1:1: parse error on input `:' 21:34:00 sheesh 21:34:02 okay uh 21:34:11 are you spending all this time making a thing that lowercases what you give it 21:34:24 IN HASKELL 21:34:39 i refuse to believe this is as difficult as you're making it look 21:34:44 it's easy actually 21:34:48 !delinterp monqy 21:34:49 ​Interpreter monqy deleted. 21:34:49 ive been hiding the secret this whole time 21:34:52 !addinterp monqy haskell http://oerjan.nvg.org/monqy 21:34:54 ​Interpreter monqy installed. 21:35:00 !monqy NOW what 21:35:07 ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX9861.hs:1:3: parse error on input `:' 21:35:10 oh hm 21:35:20 at least, i think i have the secret?????? 21:35:27 what's the secret monqy 21:35:30 deliver us from this peril 21:35:31 i'll never tell 21:35:39 deliver us 21:35:46 !delinterp monqy 21:35:46 ​Interpreter monqy deleted. 21:36:38 !show slashes 21:36:41 perl (sending via DCC) 21:37:03 hm that's inconclusive 21:37:18 !help userinterps 21:37:19 ​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 21:37:25 !userinterps 21:37:25 ​Installed user interpreters: about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 qqq redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sfed 21:37:37 !choo hm.. 21:37:38 hm.. m.. .. . 21:37:42 !show choo 21:37:43 bf >,[>,]<++++++++++++++++++++++[<]>[[.>]<[<]>[-]>] 21:37:54 that _definitely_ takes stdin 21:38:38 well you can get haskell to take stdin too 21:38:42 Bike: it would be easy if !haskell wasn't broken. 21:38:51 monqy: um what do you think we were doing 21:38:57 oerjan: the wrong thing!! 21:38:58 there's an actual bug in !haskell 21:39:03 yes 21:39:06 but there's a workaround 21:39:10 oh? 21:39:10 (i think) 21:39:26 note that not only getContents, but even getLine broke 21:39:33 yes 21:40:09 yeah my workaround works 21:40:38 are you working around needing import Data.Char 21:40:41 yes 21:40:56 hint: the workaround is VERY STUPID 21:41:10 writing toLower yourself? 21:41:13 no 21:41:20 ok that was my idea :P 21:41:44 oh i just checked something in winghci 21:41:46 it has to do with a ghci peculiarity 21:41:51 yes i found one :P 21:41:53 !chaos control 21:42:00 ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX16290.hs:1:26: \ Could not find module `System.Random' \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 21:42:00 no? 21:42:07 oh good 21:42:32 !addinterp monqy haskell interact (map Data.Char.toLower) 21:42:33 ​Interpreter monqy installed. 21:42:42 !monqy DID YOU MEAN THIS? 21:42:42 yes 21:42:46 yes 21:42:47 did you mean this? 21:42:50 wow 21:42:53 wow. 21:42:54 !monqy YAY 21:42:57 yay 21:43:24 what does that have to do with monqy? 21:43:28 no idea 21:43:30 exactly 21:43:36 have you ever seen monqy use capitals 21:43:39 yes 21:44:05 I haven't seen monqy at all 21:45:21 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:46:36 `log ^[^:] 21:46:43 oops 21:46:46 `log ^[^:]: 21:47:08 No output. 21:47:14 No output. 21:47:20 `log 21:47:26 2012-04-18.txt:01:21:39: hi Sgeo 21:47:31 oh 21:47:57 `log ^..:..:..: 21:48:13 2012-04-22.txt:04:56:20: maybe just not care about plants 21:48:49 programming is hard. 21:48:54 oh there's an S there 21:49:10 monqy expresses his anti-environmentalist believfs 21:49:16 but it's obviously tab completed so it may not count 21:49:18 `log ^..:..:..: .*(?-i[A-Z]) 21:49:21 grep: unrecognized character after (? or (?- 21:49:27 LAME 21:49:38 or maybe.... maybe sed is the hard one........... 21:49:42 no idea if that should even work. 21:50:09 `log ^..:..:..: .*[A-Z] 21:50:20 2012-06-08.txt:19:13:05: hell is a stairdance party and ive been there multiple times in light 21:50:20 `pastlog monqy 21:50:26 well that didn't 21:50:30 2011-09-24.txt:03:07:29: hi 21:50:36 oh no 21:50:38 Excellent. 21:50:49 i think monqy doesn't like us stalking him from the future 21:50:50 is log case-insensitive? Beautiful. 21:50:55 monqy: yep 21:51:03 maybe don't use it 21:51:35 and i have no idea if there's a way to work around it (without rewriting the script) 21:52:01 `run cat `which log` 21:52:03 ​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ fi 21:52:09 the (?-i modifier in perlre looked promising, but obviously grep -P doesn't support it 21:52:49 `run grep -P -- "^..:..:..: .*[A-Z]" /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 21:52:57 ​/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-08-01.txt:20:50:24: Phantom_Hoover: 05:37:27: elliott_: i did an edit of it: http://oi51.tinypic.com/34h0z.jpg 21:52:59 woops 21:53:13 time for The Most Complicated Regular Expression Ever 21:53:14 that one doesn't count either 21:53:31 elliott: i don't think the email regex would even fit in irc :( 21:53:33 `run cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; grep -P -- "^..:..:..: .*[A-Z]" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 21:53:39 good edit though 21:53:41 2011-08-27.txt:08:03:39: I've had all the parser-handwriting experience I feel I need 21:53:44 remember that edit monqy 21:53:52 OOH 21:54:00 monqy: great success 21:54:03 um 21:54:07 I doesn't really count does it 21:54:07 elliott: yes it's Good 21:54:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:54:20 imo, monqy should run a command looking for A-Z that then returns itself from th elogs. 21:54:22 well i use 'i' a lot don't i 21:54:36 Bike: good idea 21:54:42 `run cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; grep -P -- "^..:..:..: .*[A-Z]" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 21:54:52 just give it enough tries and maybe it'll work??? 21:54:55 2011-06-21.txt:06:20:12: who would do thAT 21:55:05 good question monqy 21:55:17 i often wonder that myself 21:56:35 `run cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; grep -P -- "^..:..:..: .*[A-Z]" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 21:56:44 2011-08-16.txt:00:22:02: evincar: I also noticed that in your example, there's a bit of weirdness 21:56:51 "Mail::RFC822::Address is a Perl module to validate email addresses according to the RFC 822 grammar. It provides the same functionality as RFC::RFC822::Address, but uses Perl regular expressions rather that the Parse::RecDescent parser. This means that the module is much faster to load as it does not need to compile the grammar on startup." wow i forgot that was the justification 21:57:05 good 21:57:43 ibtsocs 21:58:47 that ones bad btw 21:58:51 it only handles like 8-deep nested comments iirc 21:59:16 oh no!! 22:00:06 oh god, parsing strict emails with a regex 22:00:46 I'm so glad that's not my problem. 22:01:15 > foldr id "Shocking!" . repeat $ \s -> '(':s++")" 22:01:24 "((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((... 22:02:00 ~eval foldr id "Shocking!" . repeat $ \s -> '(':s++")" 22:02:00 Snowyowl: For Speed 22:02:01 Error (1): Ambiguous occurrence `foldr' 22:02:01 It could refer to either `GHC.Base.foldr', 22:02:01 imported from `Data.List' at Imports.hs:16:1-16 22:02:01 (and originally defined in `base:GHC.Base') 22:02:01 or `Data.Foldable.foldr', 22:02:01 imported from `Data.Foldable' at Imports.hs:13:1-20 22:02:07 elliott: clearly it use that perl feature to do recursion, whatever that was 22:02:11 hm another acme module idea: something which can strip an infinite number of spaces from the beginning of a string 22:02:16 using vacuum magic of course 22:02:23 vacuum magic? 22:02:32 vacuum is a library for GHC heap introspection 22:02:43 oh how "nice" 22:03:30 infinite space is vacuum magic, check 22:03:49 ~eval foldr id "Shocking!" . repeat $ \s -> '(':s++")" 22:03:49 Error (1): Ambiguous occurrence `foldr' 22:03:49 It could refer to either `Data.Foldable.foldr', 22:03:49 imported from `Data.Foldable' at Imports.hs:13:1-20 22:03:49 or `GHC.Base.foldr', 22:03:49 imported from `Data.List' at Imports.hs:16:1-16 22:03:50 (and originally defined in `base:GHC.Base') 22:04:02 aaaaah come on. I hid it! 22:04:23 oerjan: haha 22:04:28 with any luck i will collapse the false vacuum 22:04:45 band name 22:05:10 false vacuum collapse? 22:05:37 ais523: I ran into Formula after clicking the Random Page button. It's now driving me insane. I've almost cracked Hello, World. 22:05:45 Collapse the False Vacuum 22:05:47 Snowyowl: ooh 22:05:51 in 2D? 22:05:54 yes 22:06:00 I'm really curious as to whether that's TC or not 22:06:41 oh that's a nasty language 22:06:44 Can't help you there. All I've figured out so far is that you can write a finite state machine in it. 22:07:03 which is enough for cat and hello, so it'll do for now 22:07:08 "With three variables Formula can reasonably simply simulate a Minsky machine, and so is Turing complete."? 22:07:22 *any finite state machine 22:09:15 olsner: that's presumably 3D 22:09:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:10:14 yeah, it's obviously TC in 3D 22:10:19 and obviously TI in 1D 22:10:29 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:37 TI? 22:10:56 texas instruments 22:11:20 turing incomplete 22:11:36 (woe be to the turing incomplete machine) 22:16:20 yeah, turing incomplete 22:17:07 maybe "subrecursive" would sound cooler 22:19:46 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 22:27:01 ais523: "If the output is in the range [-½,½], " shouldn't that be (-½,½) since the end values are already taken by the first rule? 22:27:10 oerjan: yeah 22:27:20 I wasn't completely up on notation when I wrote that 22:27:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:28:08 fixed 22:28:54 so, does this have anything to do with exponential diophantines or should i read the article again while more awake 22:29:49 ooh is this one of those turing-equivalent thingies 22:30:13 what isn't 22:30:36 Bike: i doubt you need anything that heavy to settle this 22:31:17 it's more of a question of how to move around with only two variables that can be incremented/decremented 22:31:53 i am assuming that the formulas are powerful enough that you can express any reasonably simple function of the variables 22:33:17 hm right two variables is precisely when you have the wire-crossing problem 22:33:48 oerjan, do you know of any graph colouring-related turing equivalent thingies 22:34:14 not on the spot 22:34:43 but basically, if there are any NP-complete-problem related ones, you can probably translate 22:35:12 since 3-coloring is NP-complete 22:35:25 (even with planar graphs) 22:39:07 okay, bottom of the page: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Snowyowl/Hello,_world!_in_Formula 22:39:08 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:39:44 hm is it decidable whether an elementary function is equal to a given rational number? if so Formula should be possible to implement in principle 22:40:49 (it's not known whether e+pi is rational, say, but it might still be decidable whether it's equal to a particular one) 22:41:12 Dunno. With only addition, multiplication, and division, you can use fraction arithmetic. 22:41:29 oerjan: well if it /isn't/ rational, then it's definitely decidable that for each rational, it's not equal to that rational 22:41:31 trigonometric functions muddy the waters a bit. 22:41:31 yes, it's the exponential stuff that complicates things :P 22:41:32 via decimal expansion 22:41:45 ais523: well yeah but that doesn't help 22:42:04 yeah, it doesn't terminate if it turns out they are equal 22:42:15 we need to be able to confirm the n + 1/2 cases 22:42:17 oerjan: it allows you to write an implementation that may work correctly, you just can't prove it works correctly 22:42:21 i thought you only need arithmetic and abs to make it uncomputable 22:42:25 and 0 22:42:36 to make equalling a constant uncomputable, i mean 22:43:03 like, the question would be "with Formula's operations, is there any way to produce a rational that isn't provably rational?" 22:43:16 Bike: not without quantification... 22:43:40 Bike: with only arithmetic and abs you can only get rational numbers 22:44:25 -!- yours_truly has joined. 22:44:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:44:37 oh it's rationals, pi, log(2), a variable, arithmetic, composition, abs, and trigonometry. 22:44:40 ais523: hm i guess that's equivalent 22:45:09 oerjan: if there isn't, an implementation that worked via comparing decimal expansions would work 22:45:17 Bike: "a variable"? what's that used for? 22:45:26 just without a proof of that statement, we wouldn't know it worked 22:45:29 oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richardson's_theorem 22:45:39 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:45:47 Bike: "a variable" is the only thing that isn't included in Formula here, so... 22:45:56 (in spirit) 22:47:16 hey zeilberger 22:47:19 is citated. 22:47:22 from that wp article. hi. 22:47:25 citated 22:47:27 di i just write that 22:47:30 am i drunk irl 22:47:52 elliott: i dunno, have you started drinking yet? 22:47:52 hi elliott 22:48:04 oerjan: no but I am sure this channel will drive me to it sooner or later 22:48:35 elliott: we'll just get you to skip straight to heroin for convenience 22:48:38 oh zeilberger's an ultrafinitist 22:48:42 well now 22:49:15 "Guess what? Programming is even more fun than proving, and, more importantly it gives as much, if not more, insight and understanding" what a nerd 22:49:22 -!- yours_truly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:49:35 zeilberge is fantastic 22:49:36 i love him 22:49:40 Bike: proving and programming feel quite similar to me 22:49:48 whatever could have given you that idea ais 22:49:58 elliott: what kind of phantasm we talkin' here? 22:50:20 help 22:50:30 i mean does he write psychotic blog posts or something 22:50:33 i liked A=B 22:51:01 http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/OPINIONS.html 22:51:09 good filename 22:51:11 he is great 22:51:25 holy hell 22:52:01 why is he capitalizing everything 22:52:05 i especially like http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/mamarim/mamarimPDF/real.pdf 22:52:12 and i'm not being as sarcastic as i once would be saying such a thing 22:52:36 « In particular, Turing thesis's (recently edited and republished by Andrew Appel in this attractive book (with an insightful introduction by him)), is utter nonsense, talking about "oracles", that lead to lots of beautiful, but fictional and irrelevant work by logicians and theoretical computer scientists.» 22:52:53 Also the "halting problem" is meaningless, as stated (so it is not surprising that it is "undecidable"). The question "does the program halt" is the same as "does there exist an integer N such that the program halts in less than N steps?", and it is tacitly assumed that N can be anything, i.e. taken over the "infinite" set of positive integers. 22:53:37 alright elliott am i going to regret reading this pdf 22:53:44 holy shit yes i am 22:54:00 come on 22:54:07 ultrafinitism is cool 22:54:24 yes but this is too close 22:54:47 anyone who has seen http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=103 and doesn't like ultrafinitism at least a little is lame 22:55:01 yeah ok that guy is a pretty good argument. 22:55:30 but i mean 22:55:33 digital messiah 22:56:00 Turing was one of the most important people in the history of computer science 22:56:02 since 3-coloring is NP-complete 22:56:03 (even with planar graphs) 22:56:14 HAHAHAHA FINALLY MY HERALDRY-BASED ESOLANG CAN BE A REALITY 22:56:39 * Phantom__Hoover realises ~10 seconds too late that NP-complete is not the same as turing-equivalent 22:56:40 oh god we're doomed 22:56:45 FreeFull: who are you talking to 22:56:48 no, you're safe 22:56:49 for now 22:56:57 ._. 22:57:31 elliott: yes 22:57:32 elliott this has more italics than words i think 22:57:55 kmc: i have no idea what you are responding to but i agree 22:58:00 Instead the real REAL 'line' is neither real, nor a line. 22:58:01 Phantom__Hoover: i say you make that heraldry-based esolang anyhow 22:58:03 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=103 22:58:11 what about the long line 22:58:43 oh christ dude you could at least use delta-epsilon formulation of derivatives couldn't you 22:58:56 does that paper use non-standard analysis 22:59:04 because it is a basic universal fact that non-standard analysis is great 22:59:11 Unfortunately no. 22:59:46 oerjan, how can i??? 22:59:53 np-complete-complete? 22:59:56 what is this shit? 22:59:57 Instead he says that the h in the just-learning-derivatives formula is "the Fundamental mesh size, a Mathematical Universal constant, that unlike Planck's constant we will never know, but it is very tiny." 23:00:21 Phantom__Hoover: i am so sorry 23:00:24 integration is a riemann sum 23:00:32 elliott i'm really regretting this help 23:00:44 REAL (i.e. discrete) analysis is conceptually simpler than traditional ‘real’ (continuous) analysis, 23:00:47 and of course is much truer. But it is, on the whole, technically more difficult. Hence ‘Naked Brain’ 23:00:50 humans had no choice but to pursue the latter kind. 23:01:18 is Bike 23:01:27 is Bike laying into that ultrafinitist guy elliott loves 23:01:46 Bike, omg make fun of people who don't believe in lem 23:01:56 Phantom__Hoover: PKD is pretty funny yes 23:02:09 pretty sure stanis£aw £em unambiguously exists 23:02:14 i got £ because i did compose l - 23:02:17 nah, PKD thought he was a soviet committee. 23:02:19 i assumed it would help me it didnt 23:02:37 "[...]I am sure that the full arsenal of continuous complex analysis can be discretized, but the details might be too complicated for humans. 23:02:45 like, ultrafinitism is one thing, this is just embarassing 23:02:49 oh i guess he died 23:02:59 people do that :( 23:03:14 i... i miss my compose key 23:03:23 I have shift+altgr be compose 23:03:31 I WANT A REAL COMPOSE KEY 23:04:15 elliott: does this guy even know about rational geometry or is he going to keep ranting about nonsense for the whole paper 23:04:30 you're just jealous 23:05:23 Ugh, I actually /am/ kind of jealous, because I know this guy could Maple circles around me. 23:05:43 we're onto zeilberger??? 23:05:52 yes. 23:05:56 elliott has infected me. Again. 23:06:37 «Andrew Wiles alleged 'proof' of FLT» 23:06:43 *Wiles's 23:08:37 he likes wiles btw 23:08:47 he's a bit confusing & also the best 23:08:53 "a bit" 23:09:32 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:09:54 Phantom__Hoover: menu as compose then? 23:10:26 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:10:28 I TRIED BUT I JUST CAN'T MAKE IT WORSE 23:10:30 WORK 23:10:31 I MEAN WORK 23:11:51 This is almost as bad as reading Kahan rant about playstations... 23:12:18 you guys and your pet academic crazies 23:12:59 when i am old and respected and elliott is a fringe hyperfinitist nutcase i guess i can joke about him at parties 23:13:08 Bike: https://www.securelist.com/en/blog/208194129/ this is an interesting thig 23:13:29 it's a targeted backdoor pdf-exploit-based malware that uses twitter as a dead drop for communication 23:13:46 with google search as a backup 23:14:04 Phantom__Hoover: excuse me i will be professor of fuck Phantom__Hoover constructive type theory is the best thing in the universe at the university of stupid professorship names 23:14:06 what, what happened to using hashname irc channels like the good old days ;_; 23:14:07 *thing 23:14:10 so the malware never directly connects with the control server 23:14:22 elliott: i want to found this university 23:14:32 Bike: you can be professor of founding this university 23:14:45 shit yes 23:14:47 «ancient Italian comments in the shellcode copied from Dante Aligheri’s “Divine Comedy”» 23:14:48 do you have a phd in founding universities 23:14:52 kind of a prerequisite 23:14:58 elliott, so do numbers over, say, 23 exist 23:15:07 Phantom__Hoover: yes but only on thursdays 23:15:12 Phantom__Hoover: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=103 is important!! 23:15:35 elliott: No but I have a lack of Ph.D. in not having necessary prerequisites to founding universities. 23:15:39 ps i am actually moderately confident that the natural numbers exist 23:15:42 -!- nooga has joined. 23:15:51 but only the kind that starts from 0 23:16:09 Zeilberger says that 0 shouldn't be taught though. 23:16:18 Are you disagreeing with a guy with a name as great as "Zeilberger"? 23:16:36 kill your idols, Bike 23:17:17 right he's a platonist too 23:17:58 Fiora: Wow, the bait looks really good. 23:18:59 Yeah, the really targeted attacks like this, stuxnet, etc are interesting, just like 23:19:01 Fiora: Also, I'm getting an https failure here :| 23:19:05 how well they know their targets, well-crafted bait and stuff 23:19:06 * oerjan gives up on reading the logs on accounting of starting to get a headache 23:19:12 :< 23:19:37 *-ing 23:19:48 "These URLs provide access to the C2s, which then provide potential commands and encrypted transfers of additional backdoors onto the system via GIF files." this sounds like CSI 23:20:05 oerjan: can you teach me something 23:20:19 unlikely, but what? 23:20:36 Bike: I know right? XD it sounds like pure technobabble except it's real 23:21:32 well, done with pdf, that was totally nuts 23:21:52 oerjan: anything 23:22:14 elliott: never move to a place where you have housemates. hth. 23:22:21 * oerjan got a new one today 23:24:11 have you ever had any swedish ones 23:24:27 not that i recall. there was a german one this autumn. 23:24:51 * Bike goes back to a paper that uses "Human Action System" and abbreviates it as "HAS", which is totally not crazy 23:25:00 -!- augur has joined. 23:26:30 oerjan: what was your phd about again 23:27:07 Cantor dynamical systems and K-theory and C*-algebras 23:27:15 coolio 23:27:37 mostly the two former 23:28:35 what's a cantor dynamical system 23:28:49 the K-theory got extracted from the last into the first 23:29:04 Bike: it's a dynamical system on a Cantor set, hth 23:29:23 that actually does kind of h 23:29:29 spooky 23:29:32 there should probably be a "minimal" before dynamical 23:29:58 oerjan: wow, I understand four of those words, and only two of them are the same. six if you relax the definition of word. 23:30:04 ooh, six/two/seven then 23:30:11 oh it's complete and compact, not as weird as i thought 23:30:35 here are the words: dynamical (ok this one might be cheating), system, and 23:30:40 and perhaps: theory, algebras 23:30:47 don't you know what the cantor set is? 23:31:02 it's george "fuck you" cantor's second most famous thing 23:31:05 Bike: it's a compact metrizable zero-dimensional space without isolated points 23:31:16 psh, easy then 23:31:54 k-theory meanwhile is what, something grothendieck invented probably, must be hard 23:31:56 also the common way of displaying it is that "remove middle thirds of intervals from [0,1], recursively" thing. 23:31:56 what is a c* algebra 23:32:32 "A C*-algebra is a complex algebra A of continuous linear operators on a complex Hilbert space with two additional properties: A is a topologically closed set in the norm topology of operators. A is closed under the operation of taking adjoints of operators." 23:32:42 complex is right 23:32:49 pun!!! 23:32:52 i know what cantor set is btw 23:33:00 well you should have listed it then 23:33:07 23:27:06 Cantor dynamical systems and K-theory and C*-algebras 23:33:10 Bike: there is no hilbert space, they're just all isomorphic to one which is one a hilbert space 23:33:10 the word set is not in this title 23:33:13 well not a title i guess 23:33:28 oerjan: i was quoting wikipedia, i'm nowhere near understanding what a C* algebra is. 23:33:48 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:33:59 *is on 23:34:10 looks like oerjan gets to correct the wp article 23:34:17 argh! 23:34:36 * oerjan refuses 23:34:40 if you're lucky you could get into a flamewar with Zeilberger about how illegitimate topology is! 23:35:02 does zeilberger acknowledge topologies on finite sets 23:35:20 elliott: you should have listed Cantor anyway since you know who he is, and possibly made a humorous joke based on his name. 23:35:21 he likes finite categories i think 23:35:32 topologies on finite sets are just partial preorders 23:35:32 Bike: I never Cantor algebra I didn't like 23:35:34 er 23:35:35 presumably he doesn't have any truck with proper classes 23:35:39 Bike: I never Cantor dynamical system I didn't like 23:35:50 "that works" 23:37:09 Bike: K-theory is somewhat similar to homology theory 23:37:31 i remember once trying to read the wp article on homology 23:37:32 it went badly 23:37:51 i don't know what that is either oerjan, but it's okay, you don't have to try to explain. 23:38:03 * Bike getting distracted again by reading scholarpedia on minimal dynamic systems 23:38:16 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:38:19 Bike: well homology is considerably less obscure than K-theory, is all :P 23:38:33 granted 23:38:40 homology is like homotopy because most of the letters are the same 23:38:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:39:08 oerjan: how many years of effort will it take to understand your thesis 23:39:17 homology is homotopy invariant, so they're not unrelated terms 23:39:25 elliott: 67 23:39:36 oerjan: does that mean you don't understand it 23:39:38 other problems: i think of "homologous" which is a comparative anatomy thing and, hopefully, not related to this at all 23:39:47 elliott: i may have understood it once 23:40:53 Bike: hm i vaguely recall noticing both definitions when looking up "homologi" in a norwegian encyclopedia once long ago 23:41:01 oerjan, are homologous structures of the same homology class thing 23:41:11 That's not even a sentence. 23:41:16 Phantom__Hoover: ...maybe. i don't remember. 23:41:40 -!- Gregor has set topic: #esoteric welcomes its new prime minister, Ed "Brainfuck Derivative" Centipede | Channel is publicly logged. You can find the URL in the log.. 23:41:41 Nothing here 23:41:54 i think probably they're homotopy-equivalent at least so... 23:42:02 wow, that's some good message handling, oonbotti. 23:42:15 Bike: once, long ago, when i looked up "homologi" in a norwegian encyclopedia, it had both mathematical and anatomical definitions, afair. 23:42:27 oerjan: I meant at phantom hoover. 23:42:36 your sentence as adequately sentencistic. 23:42:39 was* 23:42:52 And still is. 23:42:54 it's a perfectly cromulent sentence 23:42:59 go prescriptivise in a corner somewhere 23:43:24 :( 23:44:06 yay!