00:05:14 It makes me feel funny that AngularJS is some sort of pseudo-HTML 00:06:23 looks a lot like any of a bajillion other HTML template languages 00:06:28 Also, it looks like it wouldn't play nice with server-side things that attempt to insert plaintext and do escaping for you... hmm.... looks like XSS possibilties if you attempt to output AngularJS code from serverside 00:06:30 some kind of......... markup language 00:06:52 kmc, it's clientside though 00:06:59 Sgeo: so? 00:07:12 a) there are plenty of 00:07:18 client side template systems 00:07:19 * Sgeo tends to think of HTML templating as a server-side thing 00:07:33 b) in 2013 you need to get comfortable with the idea that the client is a VM running a program 00:09:14 the traditional client/server webapp architecture kinda sucks anyway 00:09:29 much nicer to implement an API on the server, which can be used by many clients 00:09:41 and one of those clients happens to be a totally static blob of HTML/JS/CSS that you can serve up 00:10:34 Doesn't work too well with people using NoScript though 00:10:43 yeah 00:11:46 it's hard to write programs for someone who has disabled the ability of their computer to run programs 00:11:57 anyway you can provide both 00:12:13 the server-side backend of the NoScript app can be an API client like everything else 00:13:37 the NoScript client and the rich web client will necessarily be pretty different 00:13:44 because the latter can do a lot of things client-side and instantaneously 00:13:49 that the former requires a server round trip for 00:14:03 you end up implementing the functionality twice anyway, so might as well separate it nicely 00:15:46 the need to write code for both "backends" there is just an artefact of how low-level the web is imo 00:15:52 yeah 00:16:00 and also an Android backend in Java and an iPhone backend in ObjC 00:16:01 sucks 00:16:35 er frontend whatever 00:16:42 like there is no reason you couldn't have one codebase that adapts to how fast replies are expected to be 00:16:51 elliott: if your backend is JS-like then you can at least share some code 00:16:54 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:16:56 elliott: yeah, that's kinda like how Meteor works 00:17:22 everything looks like the web client code is directly accessing a database 00:17:31 the client transparently caches part of that database 00:17:44 in particular you want JS code generation for this 00:17:49 but that's good because it means you get to not write JS 00:17:53 if you want to force something to run server side, it's still the same language and same APIs 00:18:01 also authentication works somehow but I don't know how 00:18:16 also if something changes in the database, it automatically gets pushed out to those client caches & updates the DOM 00:18:35 the last part is also something Quora's LiveNode does 00:18:42 they have server side templating I think 00:18:52 but whenever they render some HTML, they remember which SQL queries went into determining it 00:18:58 and if those things change they push new HTML out to you 00:19:01 another thing is that since page history APIs exist now, if a browser supports JS then there is basically no reason to ever do a full page load when you can avoid downloading all the surrounding site design crap and just insert the new page in place 00:19:09 I had these thoughts when considering rewriting the esowiki's software 00:19:14 which of course I bikeshedded to oblivion 00:20:04 yo 00:20:18 hi 00:20:53 elliott: Friend of mine is actually working on doing this for his company's website. 00:21:35 are you designing elliottwiki 00:21:38 Because, for various reasons, he's been working pretty hard on making the thing load as quickly and smoothly as possible. 00:21:43 the nice thing is that it should be easy to just send down a diff of the DOM or such rather than actually coding this update logic by hand 00:21:56 but again you need a higher-level thing than what all web programming is done in to do this automatically 00:22:01 Oh, sorry, he's actually already done this. 00:25:48 Phantom_Hoover: well it was actually going to try and be as much like mediawiki as possible 00:25:53 just because i hate maintaining a mediawiki install that much 00:26:07 medielliot 00:26:36 it's literally like a major version behind 00:26:41 because my "upgrade workflow" broke 00:26:42 and i'm so lazy 00:27:02 so we can't write a wiki cyclic tag interpreter in embedded lua is what you're saying 00:27:52 that;'s an extension Bike 00:27:55 even if i upgraded it 00:27:57 it wuold never beyours 00:28:10 wow guys do you remember beinga ble to type 00:28:25 aww 00:28:25 no 00:28:56 Bike: don't you remember being 12 and always using totally correct punctuation and shit 00:29:00 it used to be so easy! 00:29:04 positively monoidal 00:29:14 i don't think i had a computer when i was twelve 00:29:28 you poor person 00:29:47 or if i did i was using it for Putt Putt or some shit 00:29:56 putt putt at 12??? 00:30:06 i'm "slow" 00:30:08 ok for real, 00:30:11 also i don't remember the normal ages for games 00:30:12 spy fox was the fucking greatest 00:30:18 and you all know it 00:30:19 yes he was 00:30:57 i'm glad we have consensus 00:32:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:38:36 the nice thing is that it should be easy to just send down a diff of the DOM or such rather than actually coding this update logic by hand <== well, i wouldn't send the DOM transformations but just update the ViewModel of a page.. as it's recommended by the MVVM design pattern. And for the transformations of the DOM you could _observe_ the client.side ViewModel! there are several JS libs providing observable 00:38:36 bindings sparing you a lot of eventhandling and backgroundworking.. like knockout.js 00:38:36 http://knockoutjs.com/ 00:42:25 so you implement the domainn tier server side and provide a light webservice interface, which handles the communication between the ViewModel (client) and the BusinessModel (server).. i prefer JSON and REST rather than the haevier XML/SOAP stories 00:43:15 i'm sorry but this is _definitely_ too enterprisey to be on topic in this channel. 00:43:41 okay :> 00:43:42 enterprise lambda calculus 00:45:03 i had to argue with someone who wanted to use "REST" to mean basically "not SOAP" 00:45:20 nice. 00:45:21 for an API which, though lightweight and JSON-based, was not remotely RESTful 00:49:52 well, ok.. i guess you could argue on that (not splitting hairs on the definition of REST architecture) and reach consesus and understanding in single meeting 00:50:12 one must try hard to fail on that 00:52:48 i mean.. if you read the wiki article, and unterstand the few restrictions and ideas you're ready to go.. you probably will do, if you already have some experience on the SOA issue 00:52:54 kmc: Oh, wow. 00:53:02 and begin to love the less is more idea 00:53:23 * ion starts using “Haskell” to mean basically “not PHP”. 00:53:51 haskell pipertext processor 00:54:25 pipertext 00:54:49 pipertext. 00:54:54 pipertext. 00:55:06 http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/piper/text.html good poem, i recited it once 00:57:53 imo, more like reshited. 00:58:00 only works with british pronunciation 00:58:19 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:59:26 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:59:58 hm random page gave me http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk_talk:Turing_tarpit is that supposed to happen? 01:00:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:00:49 perhaps it actually counts that as in Main: 01:01:03 yes, it is 01:01:12 see also http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Talk_talk:Turing_tarpit 01:01:49 ic 01:01:59 I forget the context 01:06:48 -!- hagb4rd has changed nick to hagb4rd|brb. 01:08:25 oerjan: yes this will definitely be a language someday 01:08:55 -!- kallisti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:12:14 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:12:18 -!- aloril has joined. 01:14:15 (((((()))(()()))((()())((()))))((((()))(()))((())((()))))((((())))(((()()))))(((()())((()())))(((()()))(())))((((())((()())))((()()))))(((((()())))((()()))))((((()))))(()())(())(())(()())) 01:15:29 hi 01:15:51 01:15:54 wow freefull you know ursala too?? 01:16:20 Is there some library in C to run Verilog programs and can be used with other programs? 01:16:45 * Sgeo wants a simple Scheme-like language on which it's convenient to build esolangs off of 01:16:54 "Scheme like except has this function" for instance 01:17:12 have you tried banana scheme 01:17:19 alt. analogy to awful brainfuck derivatives 01:17:26 alt. is this about trustfuck(trustscheme?) 01:17:28 alt. =/ 01:17:44 yes it's about trustfuck 01:18:25 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Memfractal 01:18:28 i forget, did you rename it to braintrust so you could put it on your resume? how did that go 01:18:53 so just uh, write a scheme, i guess? it's pretty easy if you don't ccare about stupid things like numbers 01:18:56 I think + is a bit underdefined 01:18:58 I renamed it to Braintrust, it's not on resume, but during interview I mentioned that I had projects not listed on resume, he asked for one, and I mentioned Braintrust 01:19:34 and how did that go 01:20:21 I was hired, so I assume that went well 01:22:58 I agree with FreeFull 01:23:07 How do you access the copy? Entering the +? 01:23:12 Where do you end up? 01:23:16 zzo38, ping 01:23:49 I'm not even sure what the arrows mean/do 01:25:37 I think a new Trust language should just have an easy way to make a quine 01:25:56 ah i recall memfractal. i believe it works in the obvious way hth. 01:26:32 as in, should be obvious if you know what a fractal is. 01:26:52 Sgeo: Maybe I didn't make it clear. The ^v<> are entry/exit points. 01:27:31 ..Oh, I think I see 01:27:40 When you enter a copy, you come out the side you just entered 01:27:50 also, i must stop assuming people share my idea of what things are obvious. 01:27:50 So hit + from the right you enter the new copy from the < 01:28:02 But where does the top level one come from/ 01:28:19 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:28:56 that does indeed seem unspecified 01:29:04 It is not indicated where the top level one come from; maybe it should be 01:29:06 by analogy with befunge, i'd assume > 01:31:53 So, to use + as a memory cell, you make coming from (say) right the memory test, coming from top is 1 coming from bottom is 0 01:32:02 And coming from left is regular program usage 01:32:13 This allows for a bounded amount of memory 01:32:48 I don't see a way to build any sort of addressing scheme, at least not immediately.... hm 01:32:59 I see something, but not sure how many sides it requires 01:33:13 Hmm 01:35:12 Needs to be a prefix-free code. 01:35:19 0 means just use local memory 01:35:26 erm, as in, return immediately. 01:36:27 After that, a cell can get multiple bits by returning and storing the address so far, then the client asks for more 01:38:52 We can send a + a 0, 1, or 2. (3 is assumed to be the start of the program) 01:40:18 oh hm i think maybe there _shouldn't_ be a particular direction of entering a program. instead the program input is a sequence of ^v<> 's that are used for entering, and the output is simultaneously the sequence of exits. 01:40:42 s/simultaneously/similarly/ 01:40:56 A sequence? 01:41:25 Wouldn't each piece of output be independent of each other 01:41:32 Every thing in the input is a separate execution 01:41:40 Although that does make it convenient to test things, I guess 01:41:43 no, because you remember the bits of the subprograms 01:41:51 Oh, right 01:42:47 alternatively you could encode input as the initial pattern of bits set somehow 01:44:29 Ok, so address 0 is "What is your bit" 01:46:39 btw memfractal looks like it can be compiled, there are only a few possible control paths 01:47:11 What's the difference between a compiler and an interpreter glued to some input? 01:47:49 Because my implementation for my 'compiled' language is really an interpreter glued to some input 01:47:54 by "compiled" i mean that you don't have to work directly on the 2-dimensional program. 01:48:14 since it doesn't actually change 01:50:26 I'm trying to think how you could compile a Boolfuck-like thing to Memfractal 01:50:33 -!- md_5 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:50:48 Obvious is where the memory for the tape comes from. Not obvious is where each instruction gets encoded 01:51:01 it seems tricky to get room for the [] flow control 01:51:54 on the one hand you can have as many + as you want, on the other they all must work identically 01:52:16 You can give input to a + 01:52:25 So maybe the input encodes whether to... do... something 01:54:35 hm... 01:55:44 you can also hopefully have some of the +'s be used only for added local state for the surrounding one 01:56:46 oh, also memfractal is reversible, this tends to awkwardize things. 01:57:53 (i don't think we ever found out how to use backflip in a convenient way, ais523's derivatives notwithstanding) 01:58:55 backflip? 01:58:59 I should look at that 02:01:16 backflip is really elegant, yet incomprehensible 02:01:55 BF isn't TC 02:02:12 I love ambiguous acronyms. 02:03:14 indeed not. but it still might have an intuitive way of doing computation which we haven't found yet, and which could be TC if you say allowed infinite setup 02:05:33 I don't understand why it doesn't have infinite loops 02:06:03 Oh, guess can't put an always-reflecting mirror at the entrance, and... it will always end up at the entrance if not halted elsewhere? 02:08:55 it's a general property of any reversible finite state system that it cannot go into an infinite loop unless it started in it 02:08:57 Maybe we should look for a storage device in Memfractal 02:09:18 Similar to ABCDXYZ 02:10:02 maybe. i felt that the control flow was the real problem in backflip. 02:10:07 Hmm, no, any device would have to comprise most of the program 02:10:27 Most you could do was say "Ok, here's the section of the program where you can do your own unique stuff" 02:16:21 -!- p3t3r has joined. 02:17:06 one property of memfractal that doesn't have an analogue in backflip is that if you leave a block by the same exit that you entered, you have to retrace your steps backwards until you hit that block again 02:17:28 -!- p3t3r has left. 02:17:47 oh hm 02:19:22 yes 02:20:18 hi p3t3r. by p3t3r. 02:20:33 -!- kallisti has joined. 02:23:38 this means that for useful computation, you _never_ want to leave a block by the same exit the first time 02:23:56 fwiw 02:26:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 02:45:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:54:37 -!- Bike has joined. 02:59:01 Reversible computing both interests and confuses me 03:07:05 -!- md_5 has joined. 03:07:52 -!- hagb4rd|brb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:07:57 * Sgeo wonders if Phantom_Hoover would like The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi 03:08:39 is that the one in the school 03:08:48 Yes 03:08:49 i'm very suspicious of the japanese around schools 03:09:01 Although "the one in the school" seems like it's probably ambiguous 03:09:05 But it is in a school 03:09:09 Except when it isn't, I guess 03:09:32 Being set in a school is so common for anime it's practically cliche. 03:09:42 definitely not practically 03:09:58 *use-mention distinction 03:14:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:33:37 * Sgeo wonders if PMMM is on crunchyroll 03:36:51 http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=torrentinfo&tid=386505 03:38:36 #esoteric's secret quest to cram as much logged illegality into 24 hours as possible 03:39:16 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 03:48:35 kinda want to take salvia while watching pirated medukas now 03:49:08 wouldn't it help to pick an actually illegal drug 03:49:11 or is salvia illegal where you are 03:52:03 you know i'm not sure 03:52:06 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:52:20 maybe i could just get some child porn and burn it and get high off the ashes mixed with salvia? 03:52:23 to be safe 03:54:43 you could try killing someone also 03:55:10 better safe than sorry 03:55:14 I couldn't even smoke marijuana illegally. 03:57:16 why's that 03:57:21 Colorado. 03:57:22 -!- zzo38 has left. 03:57:31 poor bastard 03:57:51 Guess I'll have to settle for blackjack and hookers. 04:01:47 why did i think you were in finland 04:01:51 well 04:01:52 i know why 04:02:09 is it legal to buy and sell as well? 04:02:57 if it's like washington there's a whole licensed dispensary system 04:03:17 not sure how that works since it's still federally illegal, but whatever 04:04:07 guys i think we scared zzo away 04:04:13 kmc: It's not *yet* legal to buy and sell, but that's a matter of the regulations pending. 04:04:45 CO has had medical marijuana for a while.... maybe those same dispensaries will start selling to the general public? 04:04:57 Basically, the state has a few months to decide precisely how to regulate recreational marijuana. 04:05:03 and yeah it's federally illegal, and in CA as well, and the various other states with MMJ 04:05:25 sometimes the feds get in a mood to go busting dispensaries and sometimes they stay away 04:05:30 michael michael jackson 04:05:32 like what does that mean though, the DEA just.. oh, well, okay 04:05:35 medical michael jackson 04:05:36 good legal system we have 04:06:03 Bike: the great thing about a country where everything is illegal is that the actual power of the law is vested not in legislatures or judges but in enforcement agencies and prosecutors 04:06:23 so it's all about, did you piss someone off, do they want to make an example of you 04:06:41 yeah, i know 04:06:48 it's still weird to think about 04:07:06 i can't remember the most recent official word from obama regarding medical marijuana as an enforcement priority 04:07:20 i think they decided to lay off but not sure 04:07:40 with legalization in WA and CO, they might crack down to prove a point there 04:07:42 obama more like... maybebama 04:07:47 power is sort of, use it or lose it 04:08:07 what would even be the point? insofar as the drug war even has a point it's screaming about cartels, which is hardly relevant to growing your own 04:08:11 am i just not cynical enough 04:08:25 yep 04:08:43 shit 04:09:05 the drug war exists to perpetuate the organizations which prosecute it 04:09:12 militarized police, the DEA, the prison system 04:09:19 and the cartels 04:09:36 well, that just makes me wonder why it started 04:09:40 can i just blame reagan 04:09:53 partially but marijuana was banned long before him 04:10:00 it started as a moral panic against the mexicans and the negro jazz musicians 04:10:02 those damn jazzists 04:10:06 the drug war actually only exists to keep people distracted from chemtrails 04:10:14 (im not being serious please dont use this against me in the future) 04:10:21 that's why it's called "marijuana" in the USA and "cannabis" everywhere else 04:10:22 420 blaze the towers? 04:10:26 marihuana 04:10:31 kmc: oh damn, for real 04:10:45 marijuafunkyana 04:10:51 the secret messag....... 04:10:52 in fact I'm told that when the drug was banned, very few people understood that this devil weed "marijuana" was the same ordinary hemp crop that every farmer had growing in their fields 04:11:18 hemp more like.... help 04:11:36 you know what's weird about hemp? they make milk out of it. that's weird 04:11:58 do they call it hilk or helk 04:12:15 helk, it's a new age thing 04:12:22 hilk, more like silk 04:12:36 I ain't a hilk! / I'm a gnu. 04:12:49 er. 04:12:51 s/./E/ 04:12:54 I hain't a hilk! / I'm a gnu. 04:12:57 No. 04:13:01 I hain't a helk! / I'm a gnu. 04:14:39 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:15:34 -!- sivoais has joined. 04:16:33 I’d like to interject for just a moment. 04:19:48 * Bike waits 04:25:10 Bike: you can make anything out of hemp and sell it to hippies and wannabe hippie-yuppies 04:25:37 yeah, but i wouldn't know about it if it didn't show up at the food bank of all places. 04:31:58 heh 04:32:01 that is odd 04:32:22 unfortunately # wannabe hippie-yuppies >> # hippies these days :( 04:32:30 people donate the weirdest shit, though. 04:33:00 sure, i have a tub of frozen steak. no you can't ask me why or why it's in a tub. no i don't need a receipt you don't need my name. bye! 04:33:10 ... 04:34:44 its actually salvia 04:35:07 did you process donations at a food bank? 04:35:20 the foodbank is being clandestinely used by the salvia cartles, who freeze it into meat 04:35:24 yeah, we get donations all the time. 04:35:58 obviously people's donations are a pretty minor part of what we give out though. Plus it's usually bizarre or way out of date. 04:36:21 Is it reasonable to reject a gaming computer CPU if it doesn't have VT-x because I want virtualization just as a toy? 04:36:31 virtualization is fucking useful 04:36:44 which processors don't have it? aren't they really low-end anyway? 04:36:47 But I don't have a use for it other than messing around 04:36:51 The super high end unlocked ones don't have it either, I think 04:36:53 market segmentation thing 04:36:56 ohh 04:36:56 No, but it's reasonable to reject a gaming computer CPU for not having VT-x because *seriously what fucking chip are you buying, a Dorito?* 04:37:10 Ok, so they mostly all have it, ok 04:37:15 you could back up your whole hard drive on a floppy diskette / you're the biggest joke on the internet 04:37:22 http://www.neowin.net/images/uploaded/haswell_cpu_lineup.jpg like I saw this the other day 04:37:28 * pikhq nods sagely at kmc 04:37:30 My computer from 2001 didn't have VT-x I think 04:37:31 the "K" CPUs are missing "VT-d" 04:37:40 I used it until maybe 2007 or so 04:37:42 You have your own newsgroup / alt.total.luser 04:37:50 VT-d is different though 04:37:56 What's VT-d? 04:38:08 i think it's the IOMMU virtualization thing 04:38:10 I am vaguely thinking of putting XenClient on the machine and putting OSes on top of that 04:38:15 they're different? @_@ oh geez 04:38:15 lets you route a physical ethernet card to a VM, for example 04:38:46 I'm pretty sure you can do that without it, it's just more CPU-intensive. 04:38:50 Windows for games and Linux for everything else, without rebooting to switch between them 04:38:51 Might also need Xen. 04:38:56 yeah, and/or less secure 04:38:57 is vt-x in cpuinfo somewhere, i want to see how hard i lack it 04:39:02 it's called vmx i think 04:39:20 Bike: Is your computer 4 years old or newer? 04:39:31 AMD's is called svm 04:39:35 If so, is your computer using an Atom CPU? 04:39:37 probably not, but it's also an Atom 04:39:56 i suspect one of the processors is in fact a dorito. 04:40:00 one of the cores* 04:40:06 that must be the uncore 04:40:10 <.< >.> 04:40:20 Yeah, the Atom doesn't have it I don't think. 04:40:21 haunted 'ghost cores' 04:40:35 brutally killed with a laser at the factory, they haunt your data forevermore 04:41:22 intel cpus are powered by the ghosts of murdered silicon -- buy amd! 04:42:12 now i want a horror film called "Fear Uncertainty and Doubt" 04:42:14 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:42:26 Fear Uncertainity and Doubt in Las Vegas 04:42:45 subtitled The Microsoft Story 04:42:49 Ooh there's such a thing as All-In-One computers 04:42:50 about Ballmer's adventures while very high 04:42:56 Maybe there's enough room here for one of those 04:43:43 Sgeo: Yeah, um, computers have gotten kinda crazy lately. 04:43:47 Sgeo: that's with monitor built in? 04:43:52 kmc, I think so 04:44:05 Why does /r/buildapc seem to have a Microcenter fetish? 04:44:14 i'm suspicious of those 04:44:29 You can actually get really tiny and cheap x86 systems these days. 04:44:35 Yay, $50 Atom boards. 04:44:45 you can get a 'nettop' or 'booksize' computer and a separate monitor and it'll take up the same space, plus you can upgrade one or the other 04:44:48 maybe the specs are worse though 04:45:02 Might not matter though. 04:45:17 do the all-in-one machines actually have good monitors 04:45:22 Doubtful. 04:45:35 meh i'm spoiled monitor-wise though 04:45:38 probably fine 04:46:05 * Sgeo wonders if 3d monitors are worth it 04:46:33 jesus that's a thing now? i mean of course it is, but still 04:47:09 In a word, no. 04:47:14 In more words, no no no no no. 04:47:37 red-cyan glasses suck, cross-eyed sucks 04:47:56 Also maybe the monitor will make 3d games that wouldn't particularly support that kind of thing support it? 04:48:22 My normal glasses are like 3d glasses for reality... 04:49:15 haha Sgeo 04:49:44 that's the most stonertastic thing that's been said here in a while 04:51:50 They are! They're not necessary for me to see what's going on, they just make things look nicer and pop out 04:56:06 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:03:18 that's how it is for me sort of 05:03:25 also needed for reading far away things 05:05:01 I need mine for not being blind 05:05:47 Stuff's kinda fuzzy but I can *see* without glasses. 05:05:57 But I can't read my monitor without them. 05:07:13 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:07:29 Is it possible to design a computer with CF cards? 05:07:41 Somebody said it isn't. 05:08:03 Why wouldn't it be possible? 05:08:27 it's quite easy -- CF and PATA are compatible electrically 05:08:30 all you need is a pin adapter 05:08:40 kmc: Yes, it is what I thought. 05:08:47 although some CF cards can't do DMA and are slow 05:08:58 that was the ill fate of my attempt to have an SSD laptop in 2006 this way 05:09:17 What is SSD laptop? 05:09:25 a laptop with an SSD instead of a hard drive 05:09:26 You can go crazier still. 05:09:48 PATA is also electrically compatible with ISA. 05:09:50 What is "SSD", though? 05:10:54 When I am designing the computer, I intend to have both CompactFlash and hard drives, as well as optical drive. 05:11:06 Solid state drive. 05:11:08 "solid state drive" 05:11:13 pikhq: OK, thanks 05:11:39 typically, a SATA storage device using flash memory, which has the same form factor as a laptop hard drive and is fast enough to be one's primary / boot disk 05:11:44 indeed much much faster than spinny disks 05:12:42 My right eye has good vision but my left eye gets fuzzy at distance even short distances 05:12:47 so, say, an SD card would not get called an SSD, even though you could run your whole system off of it, and it might be fast 05:12:51 Mine are equally bad. 05:12:58 pikhq: huh, I didn't know it's ISA compatible, weird / cool 05:13:28 i have perfect vision 05:13:38 and i've been staring at computer screens since i was 3 05:13:38 hm so how hard is it to talk to a PATA hard drive from an Arduino or whatever? probably actually fairly easy 05:13:39 so y'all weird 05:13:44 I need glasses for far away 05:13:46 Yeah. The history of the bus is literally just that Western Digital moved the controller board to the bottom of the hard drive. 05:13:52 indeed elliott, let us mock the inferior race 05:13:55 ha HA 05:13:58