00:00:01 btw Bike did you write lift and lower for CoYoneda 00:01:59 He usually logreads, so perhaps no particular need to tell (or @tell). <-- well it went faster that way 00:02:34 oerjan: Didn't I ask you something while you were gone? 00:02:38 Did you logread it? 00:02:58 i don't get how liftFoo :: f a -> Foo f a makes sense actually. 00:03:17 Did you write it? 00:03:26 Try to write it with the Functor constraint. 00:03:37 Then you'll see how it works. 00:03:48 shachaf: #haskell took too much time 00:03:54 well i mean where's the function come from 00:03:58 Oh, right. That's what I asked. 00:03:58 or do you just throw in id or something 00:04:09 that's the puzzle 00:04:15 (the answer is yes) 00:04:23 shitty puzzle 00:04:30 Bike: What this does is turn zero or more applications of fmap into exactly one application. 00:04:47 Given the two functor laws, you can show that the end result is the same as what you'd've gotten anyway. 00:04:52 fmap id = id 00:04:59 fmap f . fmap g = fmap (f . g) 00:05:33 lift fuck = Foo fuck id, lower (Foo f a) = fmap a f 00:05:33 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:05:53 Yep. 00:06:10 So look at what you're doing -- Foo is literally holding the two arguments to fmap in a data structure. 00:06:13 That's all it is. 00:06:19 yes. 00:06:33 every time i learn a haskell thing i just think "well, that was simple" 00:06:36 (And a bit of type system nonsense to forget about the original type, since it don't matter.) 00:06:43 Bike: OK, now Yoneda. 00:06:53 (or not) 00:07:07 what, write it? 00:07:15 Er, if you want. 00:07:28 Where CoYoneda has the *arguments* to fmap, Yoneda has the *result* of fmap. 00:07:29 i have no idea how so i'm going to not do that atm 00:07:41 fmap :: forall a. forall b. (a -> b) -> F a -> F b 00:07:55 flip fmap :: forall a. F a -> (forall b. (a -> b) -> F b) 00:08:05 Yoneda F a = forall b. (a -> b) -> F b 00:08:05 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:08:21 With Yoneda, lift has a Functor constraint, but lower doesn't. 00:09:51 I guess you could say: fmap :: CoYoneda f a -> f a 00:09:55 fmap :: f a -> Yoneda f a 00:11:19 ok so with Yoneda you aren't guaranteed any elements even exist unless f is a functor, right? 00:11:34 but with CoYoneda you are 00:11:39 Right. 00:11:50 Well, there could still be inhabitants of Yoneda f a when f isn't a Functor. 00:12:00 But it won't be very well-behaved. 00:12:07 No guarantees, either way. 00:13:49 otoh with CoYoneda you aren't guaranteed that you can get any f element out of it again. 00:14:07 (unless f Functor) 00:14:17 Right. 00:14:40 I,I (>>=) :: m a -> Codensity m a 00:15:01 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:15:07 (=>>) :: Density w a -> w a 00:15:41 OKAY 00:16:06 Codensity is the same thing as Yoneda except for monads. 00:16:18 -!- augur has joined. 00:16:21 newtype Codensity m a = Codensity { runCodensity :: forall r. (a -> m r) -> m r } 00:16:47 data Density w a = forall x. Density (w x) (w x -> a) 00:23:17 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:24:31 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:30:09 -!- SDr has changed nick to SDr|LND. 00:31:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:31:58 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:33:15 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:36:12 -!- TheFreediver has joined. 00:40:13 -!- TheFreediver has left. 00:41:04 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:42:43 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:43:11 okay got the second admission test tomorrow morning 00:43:23 it's supposed to last ten minutes 00:44:09 and since the first test actually took 30 minutes instead of the whole hour they advertised... good luck having the motivation to wake up early just for five minutes of playing with tangrams 00:45:54 admission to what? 00:47:10 some computer science school 00:47:23 good luck 00:47:24 He's so excited about it he doesn't even remember its name. 00:47:31 the name is "42" 00:47:39 scss.edu 00:47:41 but "some computer science school" makes it look more serious 00:47:45 is it really 00:47:49 yes it is 00:48:20 42-grok-combinator-dojo.edu 00:48:30 just 42.fr 00:48:31 ok seriously though, what are you talking about 00:48:53 The SKI Institute of Lambda Calculus 00:48:58 well the guy who owns free decided he had so much money he could just create his own school just like that 00:49:09 you mean free.fr? 00:49:14 yup 00:49:22 i'm gonna level with you i thought that was a government service 00:49:28 haha 00:49:39 Bike it's france everything is a government service (zing) 00:49:41 no that's a telephone / internet company 00:50:04 apparently the guy became wealthy thanks to the sex minitel business 00:50:06 à prix incroyable, apparently 00:50:26 yeah they have a reputation like that 00:50:31 kmc: um, so I kind of let myself calm down and get less anxious by doing some other things, and so, I'm up to level 5 00:50:31 so what's the deal with this "computer science school" 00:50:37 Fiora: cool cool :) 00:50:40 my exploit works fine in gdb, but... it sigills outside of gdb? 00:50:41 is it 00:50:41 like 00:50:42 legit??? 00:50:54 I have no idea 00:50:54 they're named '42' as a clever reference to 'hacker culture' 00:50:56 (and in gdb it doesn't get me the level6 shell, just a level5 shell) 00:51:00 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:51:07 a clever reference to 'h2g2 culture' 00:51:10 Fiora: oh no 00:51:11 @wn sigil 00:51:13 No match for "sigil". 00:51:17 ???????????????????? 00:51:18 it's much worse than that 00:51:18 Fiora: yeah, programs running in a debugger lose setuid bits 00:51:20 ah, nerd culture strikes again 00:51:25 otherwise you could exploit them so easily 00:51:26 Fiora: gdb does all sorts of things to make debugging easy 00:51:31 every mail they sends me is full of 1337 crap 00:51:33 Fiora: Like disable ASLR and what not. 00:51:43 and other references to geek stuff 00:51:44 oh. the system has ASLR on? :< 00:51:48 does GDB actually disable ASLR? 00:51:51 are you sure they teach compsci and not like 00:51:54 and no, the io.sts system doesn't have ASLR enabled 00:52:00 idk something stupid 00:52:00 Koen_: wait wait wait, is this a for-profit school? 00:52:02 a few binaries have ghetto ASLR glued on 00:52:06 yeah, I ran my exploit like 100,000 times 00:52:06 you'll see it in the source 00:52:07 to be sure 00:52:07 because like... fuck that shit, you know? 00:52:17 anyway apparently you have to pass the tests online, and then if you pass you get a free course over the summer 00:52:18 Fiora: do you have a big NOP sled? 00:52:19 -!- eyni_espt has joined. 00:52:21 15h/day 00:52:23 ummmm no, no nop sled 00:52:25 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:52:29 how big should the nop sled be? 00:52:36 as big as you can get away with 00:52:38 and then if they still want you after that you get in the school starting november or something 00:52:41 4GB 00:52:44 i think i've put 1MB nop sleds on the command line 00:52:45 and it's supposedly all free 00:52:53 so I figured I could as well enter 00:53:14 but this is a 128 byte array I'm overflowing 00:53:37 are you asking for spoilers here :'( 00:53:39 and at the end I have to clobber a return value 00:53:46 n-no... I don't mean that...! 00:53:54 well you can just fuck memory right 00:54:01 fill that shit with xchg eax eax 00:54:02 be free 00:54:15 Fiora: yeah your shellcode might go in a different arg from the buffer overflow 00:54:18 or even in an env var 00:54:27 oh. 00:54:31 you just need to get that code somewhere in the process's address space, and guess its address 00:54:33 I thought you put the code in the buffer and then try to jump to it 00:54:42 and if you have a big nop sled then you don't need to guess too accurately 00:54:59 Fiora: that's often the case, with remote exploits especially, but not here 00:55:09 iim interested to see what "42" actually teaches, what "42" really is 00:55:10 -!- eyni_espt has left. 00:55:12 the great thing about setuid binaries is that the user^Wattacker controls so much of their execution environment 00:55:14 how would I iterate over a gazillion different addresses in my overflow to try it? 00:55:24 monqy: weeeeeeeell it's really really unclear 00:55:27 I guess perl magic or something 00:55:29 im betting it's a front for i-drugs. 00:55:30 you know 00:55:31 for like 00:55:33 i-dosing 00:55:34 I'm probably not interested 00:55:34 Fiora: i think you'll find that env vars are loaded at a roughly constant address 00:55:37 as is argv 00:55:44 gdb's results should be reasonable accurate there 00:55:49 (Codensity f) is not necessarily the same as f, but in some cases it is such as Identity or Finalize. Other times you get other existing monads such as (Codensity ((->) x)) making (State x). In all cases it makes a monad though, even if f isn't. 00:55:58 which will make it even harder to get up tomorrow morning :p 00:55:59 but yeah, you could use perl's pack function to generate a bunch of addresses 00:56:06 um, how would I look at an env variable in gdb? 00:56:09 kmc: A curious scientific phenomenonis that the fingernails grow after death. As does the beard. 00:56:09 "The answer to free, peer-to-peer IT courses and everything? For France, it's 42" why did i look this up 00:56:21 Fiora: *smack* 00:56:31 variable it's your own damn fault 00:56:32 When writing Linux programs meant as setuid I have tried to be careful to ensure that it won't cause a security issue 00:56:45 Bike: wow 00:56:54 monqy: that's a news article not the thing 00:56:56 Fiora: cat /proc/pid/environ hth 00:57:04 oww, what did I do :< 00:57:05 that doesn't give you the address of the environment array does it 00:57:11 the thing is http://www.42.fr/ supposedly but it doesn't seem up 00:57:15 Fiora: pinged 'em 00:57:20 level5@io:~$ cat /proc/pid/environ 00:57:21 cat: /proc/pid/environ: No such file or directory 00:57:21 Fiora: show environment var 00:57:34 /proc is the root of many bugs 00:57:49 Fiora: you can set with set environment foo = bar 00:57:52 Fiora: pid is something you replace with your pid 00:57:56 but the goal isn't to find out what's in the environment, the goal is to find the address of the environment array itself 00:57:58 yes but how do I know where the address is >_< 00:58:00 Bike: uuuuuh what have you done I can't log in to their site 00:58:06 but I don't know the pid 00:58:10 Koen_: i broke it. this cannot be allowed to stand. 00:58:10 Fiora: for some reason "p environ" isn't giving useful values in gdb :/ 00:58:20 Fiora: which architecture? 00:58:22 anyway it's usually right after argv 00:58:26 somewhere on the stack 00:58:28 yes but where is argv 00:58:31 Fiora: for the x86 its right before the argv 00:58:32 so you could break on main 00:58:33 I'm pretty sure there's a cheat folder to get your own pid but i forget it 00:58:39 Fiora: print &argv :) 00:58:39 um, kmc, I already did that... 00:58:42 oh it's self 00:58:43 that's how I got the current address... 00:58:46 and it's supposedly all free <-- so... did you happen to discover this yesterday? *cough* 00:58:48 but it doesn't work... 00:59:00 sorry, the day before yesterday 00:59:05 Fiora: you can turn on ASLR in gdb to get a "more realistic debugging experience" hth 00:59:06 Fiora: but did you try it with a huge nop sled + some fudging of addresses 00:59:08 oerjan: a week ago I think 00:59:09 s/ASLR/aslr/ 00:59:14 shachaf: but the machine has aslr off 00:59:20 It does? 00:59:21 fudging? 00:59:25 So why isn't it working without gdb? 00:59:26 kmc just said that it did... 00:59:33 I don't knowwwwwwwwwwwwww 00:59:34 imo investigate what's going on 00:59:35 that's what I am trying to ask 00:59:37 howwww 00:59:45 investigating what's going on is the whole point of these exercises imo 00:59:52 but, how 00:59:56 fudging meaning just try adjusting it 00:59:59 Bike: /proc/self is your own pid in rootmefs 01:00:09 but don't depend on that 01:00:10 I tried adjusting it up/down 16/32/48 ish manually 01:00:11 it didn't work 01:00:15 if your nop sled is 4 kB then try moving the address up and down in 4kB increments 01:00:18 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:00:21 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:00:24 but... I only have 128 bytes of room... 01:00:24 is rootmefs an insult 01:00:29 Bike: yeap 01:00:35 Fiora: no because you can put your shellcode in a separate argument or env variable 01:00:39 kay 01:00:41 but how ._. 01:00:48 * Sgeo decides to watch some Emo Philips 01:00:56 Bike: /proc has been the cause of many a linux kernel bug 01:01:03 I asked how to get the address of an environment variable but nobody answered me,.. 01:01:03 What's level05? 01:01:09 Fiora: I told you already 01:01:22 char buf[128]; strcpy(buf, argv[1]); ...? 01:01:37 Fiora: there is no *portable* way to get the address of "the envrionment"; you can cheat if you know the architecture 01:01:47 or you can usw show envrionemnt 01:01:58 ./foo "$(perl -e 'print "x" x 128; print "\xef\xbe\xad\x0b"')" "$(perl -e 'print "\x90" x 4096'; cat shellcode)" 01:02:01 Fiora: something like that 01:02:12 the first arg overflows the buffer and overwrites the return address 01:02:23 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:02:24 the second arg is ignored by the program, but gets your shellcode into its address space with a big nop sled 01:02:30 variable: I don't think /proc is relevant or helpful here 01:02:48 kmc: someone else mentioned it 01:02:54 is shellcode supposed to be a file...? 01:02:58 Fiora: in that case yeah 01:03:02 but I can't write files 01:03:05 at all? 01:03:08 no! 01:03:19 well that's not supposed to happen, but anyway, you could also do it inline 01:03:21 not in tmp not anywhere 01:03:36 Not in /tmp/Fiora? 01:03:40 no!!! 01:03:46 !!!!!! 01:03:55 fiora, it's alright 01:03:58 Fiora: you don't need the shellcode to be in a file 01:04:00 it just helps 01:04:07 Fiora: you could move the shellcode into the perl invocation, like the first one 01:04:28 but your example gives the program two arguments but it needs 1 01:04:42 * shachaf tries to connect 01:04:47 Did they change the passwords or something? 01:04:55 shachaf: they do change them periodically 01:05:01 you can get the new password in IRC 01:05:03 Hmph. 01:05:10 IRC? 01:05:16 Fiora: well does it actually refuse to run with 2 args, or does it just ignore the second one? 01:05:30 if it refuses to run, you can put that shellcode in an environment variable instead 01:05:48 um, it supports more, but... I don't get it 01:05:49 it just needs to end up somewhere in the process's address space, with a vaguely predictable address 01:06:06 so that you can overflow the buffer and make that function return to this address 01:06:10 Fiora: You just need the shellcode to be in the address space when the buffer overflows. It doesn't matter so much how it gets in. 01:06:18 but I already got it in 01:06:21 and I already checked the address 01:06:23 and I jump to it 01:06:34 I'm I'm lost 01:06:40 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 01:06:44 Fiora: but your address is probably slightly off, due to differences between gdb and non-gdb environment 01:06:49 that's the point of the NOP sled 01:06:56 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 01:07:01 means you don't need to be so precise guessing the address 01:07:36 and needing a big NOP sled is why you want to put the shell code in a separate arg / env var, rather than the buffer you're overflowing 01:09:42 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:09:44 btw I found that addresses would differ depending on whether I ran the program as ./level05 or /levels/level05 01:09:50 because that alters the length of argv[0] 01:09:59 but if your nop sled is big enough then this doesn't really matter 01:10:01 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:10:54 gdb always puts the full path in *argv 01:11:50 http://privatepaste.com/e72a7592bf bash doesn't seem to want me to do this... 01:11:52 with the $a and $b... 01:12:22 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:12:28 well it's inside a string that's single-quoted from the shell's perspective isn't it 01:12:36 oh... um 01:12:37 so those $a and $b are perl variables but not shell variables 01:12:39 how do I do that 01:12:43 I want to just bruteforce it 01:12:51 move the assignment into perl :) 01:12:57 ... I don't know any perl 01:13:05 good excuse to learn some 01:13:08 and um, I need to loop 01:13:13 I don't think I can loop inside that... 01:13:15 or python, or whatever simple thing. 01:13:19 perl has loops 01:13:23 Fiora: i did it without knowing any perl 01:13:24 sorry to state the obvious 01:13:41 Can't modify constant item in scalar assignment at -e line 1, near "FB;" 01:13:43 ._. 01:14:11 $a="\xFB"; maybe? 01:14:13 btw if I ssh to level1@io.smashthestack.org and then mkdir /tmp/esoteric_rulez and then cd /tmp/esoteric_rulez 01:14:14 Fiora: just pretend it's AVX2, hth 01:14:15 (i don't know perl either) 01:14:16 then i can create files there 01:14:21 kmc: ????? i can't 01:14:28 ok 01:14:32 not sure what I'm doing differently :( 01:14:38 level5@io:~$ touch /tmp/fiora/test 01:14:39 touch: cannot touch `/tmp/fiora/test': Permission denied 01:15:12 hm: mkdir: cannot create directory `/tmp/fiora': File exists 01:15:18 yeah, because I already made it... 01:15:21 ok 01:15:29 did you make it as a different user 01:15:36 you need one directory per level basically 01:18:01 -!- SDr|LND has changed nick to SDr. 01:18:37 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:18:43 -!- DH____ has joined. 01:19:47 At *least* one. 01:20:07 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:20:30 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:21:34 oh... 01:21:40 oh cool I can write c code now 01:21:56 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:22:04 You can always write C code locally and upload it via base64. 01:22:40 fiora proceeds to write a complete suite of tools for autogenerating shellcode instead of using perl 01:23:34 Fiora: i read that in the same tone as "i know kung fu" 01:23:48 shachaf: would that work? I mean, like, it wouldn't be compiled on the same system... 01:24:05 if only binaries could be compiled on one system and run on another 01:24:16 an innovation left for the 22nd century 01:24:17 you don't need to be sarcastic. 01:24:42 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:24:46 I thought linux wasn't that great at that... like you can't go and run some random gentoo binary on an ubuntu system and have it using an identical libc and stuff or something can you or am I totally confused 01:25:31 You can always write a program that doesn't use libc!! 01:25:37 The kernel ABI is very stable. 01:26:12 what I went and just like ran my original code that didn't work 01:26:13 and it worked 01:26:21 maybe it was because I had a different cwd? @_@ 01:26:22 programming defined :D 01:26:50 Fiora: Maybe it only works some of the time? 01:27:00 I ran it 5^5 times without success earlier... 01:27:07 Sometimes on games like this with ASLR I just ran my program a few thousand times until it worked. 01:27:11 Oh. 01:27:14 > 5^5 01:27:16 3125 01:27:28 actually I think I ran that loop like a few dozen times too so 01:27:37 um, bignum. 01:27:46 kmc: /levels/level05 "$(echo McBQaC8vc2hoL2JpbonjUFOJ4bALzYBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEDQ+/+/ | base64 -d)" 01:27:48 Bignum? 01:27:50 (that ended up doing it) 01:27:52 a big number 01:27:55 oh. 01:28:10 zbigniewm 01:28:11 I thought you meant the next level was about exploiting a bignum implementation, that'd be cool. 01:28:15 oh. 01:28:31 * Bike doesn't know anything about implementing bignums other than the obvious way though. 01:29:18 good job stressing yourself out over stupid things fifi 01:29:26 Fiora: you beat the level? cool 01:29:30 there there fiora 01:29:35 you are infinity times farther in this than i am 01:30:12 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:31:33 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:31:54 The kind of MediaWiki skin I want to use would be something like this: http://sprunge.us/Jgci Maybe I can try to write one. 01:32:08 There are others who have said they wanted to have "unstyled" skin, and so on. 01:32:13 What do you think of this? 01:32:49 (Render as HTML if you want to yourself, to see how it appears on your computer) 01:32:52 Is that a skin because it looks li- oh. 01:33:05 Does mediawiki seriously use allcaps html? 01:34:07 No, it doesn't. 01:34:18 It doesn't have to, either. 01:34:19 Your skin looks like every professor's webpage. 01:34:33 -!- aloril has joined. 01:34:43 Using allcaps HTML is not what I mean at all; that doesn't matter (unless it is XHTML, which mine isn't) 01:35:16 Like every professor's webpage? I didn't know that, but that is irrelevant. 01:36:14 it matters in XHTML? 01:36:21 Well I mean... I don't know what a skin is, but there's no css or nuthin 01:36:40 kmc: xml is case sensitive 01:36:46 XHTML has to use lowercase HTML tags and has to be valid XML (so tags without a corresponding closing tag have to be self-closing in XHTML) 01:37:20 Bike: TIL :( 01:37:51 i dunno, i feel a bit more lukewarm about case insensitivity after thinking about other scripts 01:38:28 Bike: Yes, I know, no CSS or anything like that; It is what I wanted (some other people also wanted an "unstyled" skin, like that, perhaps), which is just ultra-minimal with no CSS, JavaScripts, section-edit links, edit toolbars, etc; only plain. 01:39:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:39:40 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:40:20 Bike: Can you be more specific please? 01:41:44 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:41:59 specific about what. 01:42:45 anyway html doesn't really specify how to be displayed does it 01:43:11 Correct; it doesn't specify. It is up to the client to display it. 01:43:22 I meant specific about lukewarm about case insensitivity after thinking about other scripts. 01:43:49 Oh, just that it doesn't always seem clear how multiple characters "share a case" across languages 01:45:13 Well, case-insensitivity is specific to the language/alphabets/character-sets you are using. 01:48:51 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:49:26 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:50:29 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:54:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:55:49 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:56:46 -!- sivoais has joined. 02:05:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:07:12 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:07:44 -!- Bike has joined. 02:11:39 https://github.com/divarvel/phpz 02:23:15 -!- atriq has joined. 02:26:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:26:47 y'all're lucky you're not in #haskell right now 02:27:30 what's going down 02:27:34 morpheus is fighting neo? 02:27:46 it's high noon and the sheriff ain't got his gun 02:28:33 "Who's the commanding officer here?" "Ain't you?" 02:28:37 oh hey it's ralith 02:28:39 and sw2wolf! 02:28:47 oh no are you reading the logs 02:28:49 don't do that 02:28:56 I'm just being annoying in there now. 02:29:00 "roshan: JS is usually faster than Python" yeah i'm done 02:29:55 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:30:32 Bike: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7xjjevoeE1rn95k2o1_250.gif 02:31:14 only the dead shall know peace from this evil 02:33:17 anyway you guys should convince sw2wolf to use xmonad. thanks in advance 02:35:10 truly #esoteric is the shitposting subforum of #haskell 02:36:27 Bike: Where do you know sw2wolf from? 02:36:32 kmc: why don't you appreciate my puns......... 02:37:07 #lisp, he asks for people to debug everything in broken english 02:37:21 wow that sounds like #haskell 02:37:24 are you sure #lisp isn't #haskel 02:37:25 l 02:37:36 honestly? no 02:37:37 use ze macro 02:40:10 @quote ubuntu.freebsd 02:40:10 NIXDAEMON-COOL says: how to uncompile make into java gcc 3.3 under ubuntu freebsd ?? 02:40:24 has putin ever been asked that 02:41:11 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 02:42:17 -!- atriq has joined. 02:46:31 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:52:27 hey poll 02:52:31 what does "strongly typed" mean 02:53:25 oerjan: /kick Bike plz thx 02:54:01 yikes 02:54:17 you wound me 02:54:41 but seriously i'm 80% sure it's meaningless so I'm wondering if anyone thinks differently 02:54:45 have at thee, knave! 02:54:47 is this "a recurring #haskell thing" perchance 02:54:55 "a little bit yes" 02:55:04 Yes, it's meaningless. 02:55:07 i'm just gonna drop this here http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/an-old-article-i-wrote/ 02:55:09 alt. it means whatever you want it to mean 02:55:13 shachaf: 'like LISP' 02:55:18 It's 80% meaningless 02:55:25 alt. it means whatever makes the person you're talking to look stupid 02:55:38 Bike: it's like "stringly typed" but with steel cable hth 02:56:01 "Strong typing: A type system that I like and feel comfortable with" okay the problem here is that the other half of the conversation is supporting weak typing, as in, saying they like "weak typing" 02:56:20 no some people say strong typing is bad 02:56:31 Only weak people. 02:56:42 weak types for the weak minded 02:56:52 Is strong bad typing? 02:57:08 Wow, this says static typing and dynamic typing are orthogonal. I love you, article. 02:57:08 what if you support both strong and weak typing at once 02:57:10 typing 02:57:11 is that stereotyping 02:57:12 Bike: well weak types are types that know their place and don't get in the way of the programmer. duh. 02:57:32 itt uppity types 02:57:33 don't be a misotypist 02:57:38 THE JOKE IS STEREO 02:57:50 shachaf: the joke is coming from inside the irc 02:58:30 intermediate representation c 02:58:33 a competitor of c-- 03:00:14 Bike: how bout them leibniz equalities 03:00:16 shachaf: wouldn't you love to secure boot GPG directly from UEFI 03:00:22 haha leibniz. 03:00:32 also in this discussion i mentioned unsafeCoerce 03:00:33 "This is like looking at a finely chiseled sculpture made from beautiful and purely white wood. Then you realize in horror that the material is actually human bone." 03:00:34 slight problem is that GPG's UI is beyond unusuable 03:00:44 kmc: Would I? 03:00:47 Cool intermediate representation C using steroids 03:00:54 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary 03:01:04 a good ossuary. 03:01:17 "id = unsafeCoerce" welp 03:01:25 efficiency 03:01:39 we don't have time for your types at web scale 03:02:13 kmc: offer it next to Unity 03:02:29 spj called my code "ferociously-unintuitive" 03:02:32 do i win a medal 03:02:35 "null = not . unsafeCoerce" this is beautiful 03:02:43 That is a ferociously-unintuitive use of 'gcast'! It too me dome while to convince myself that it was right. Though it does indeed work. I'd see (gcast Refl) as the primitive, with 'gcast' itself as a simple derived function. 03:02:50 -- spj 03:03:01 shachaf: you're winner 03:03:01 @quote unsafeCoerce 03:03:01 roconnor says: unsafeCoerce isn't even safe 03:03:16 @quote unsafeCoerce 03:03:17 int-e says: What, unsafeCoerce# is kind-preserving? how boring :/ 03:03:22 @quote = unsafeCoerce 03:03:23 No quotes for this person. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. 03:03:24 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:25 ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce 03:03:26 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:27 ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce 03:03:27 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:28 shachaf says: isTrue :: Bool -> Bool; isTrue = unsafeCoerce 03:03:31 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:31 ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce 03:03:33 Hmph. 03:03:46 It might be there; keep trying. 03:03:54 @quote Jafet 03:03:54 Jafet says: Wouldn't that violate the laws of thermodynamics? not if you indent the `|' properly 03:04:00 help 03:04:03 You made spj too dome while? 03:04:12 @quote Bike 03:04:12 Conor says: So, taking Void to be the colour of the empty bikeshed ... 03:04:51 undefined = unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce 03:05:05 wow this has "thanks edwardk" in it 03:06:10 ? 03:06:12 What are you reading? 03:06:23 some old gist you've probably all seen 03:06:31 Ah. 03:06:39 do you know who edwardk is 03:06:55 His true name is spoken only in whispers. 03:07:04 the k stands for "hi monky" which is a misspelling of monqy 03:07:15 @ask monqy hi 03:07:15 Consider it noted. 03:08:13 I have a C program that I'm pretty sure will kernel panic umlbox but I don't want to try it out on HackEgo because Gregor might murder me 03:08:26 imo try it 03:08:33 Gregor: You don't mind, right? 03:09:03 Bike: that definition of undefined looks unreliable 03:09:20 Indeed. 03:09:49 now I'm trying to work out what "fix unsafeCoerce" is 03:09:59 an infinite loop, I guess, if its value becomes relevant 03:10:09 fix unsafeCoerce = fix id 03:10:16 So it's just a plain old infinite loop. 03:11:11 `help 03:11:12 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 03:11:20 `? HackEgo 03:11:22 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 03:11:23 shachaf: yeah 03:11:36 I think `? HackEgo is somewhat sarcastic 03:11:46 unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce 03:11:48 Segmentation fault 03:11:49 now the ptracer becomes the ptraced 03:11:52 That went well. 03:12:03 i vaguely think `? HackEgo was added by Gregor himself. 03:12:10 kmc: imo `? HackEgo tells you the way 03:12:30 `url wisdom/hackego 03:12:31 `pastlog `learn HackEgo 03:12:32 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom/hackego 03:12:50 ais523: it cannot be `learn because of the comma 03:12:54 kmc: I got two gdb to debug each other, it was great 03:12:58 oerjan: right, missed that 03:13:02 No output. 03:14:44 ais523: hm the repository has had its history wiped since that was added 03:14:59 `pastlog wisdom/HackEgo 03:15:07 `pastelogs wisdom/hackego 03:15:07 kmc: Causing a kernel panic in umlbox would be pretty mundane, really. 03:15:16 In terms of its effect. 03:15:21 2011-09-14.txt:23:05:16: mv: cannot stat `wisdom/HackEgo,': No such file or directory 03:15:30 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31897 03:15:54 `pastelogs hax0r 03:15:58 Gregor: it also wouldn't be visible on IRC, would it? 03:16:07 `pastlog You should totally try to hax0r it! 03:16:09 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31776 03:16:10 ais523: It should be. 03:16:10 ais523: oh it actual was `learn XD 03:16:15 ais523: Well, Idonno. 03:16:17 2011-09-14.txt:23:04:34: `learn HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 03:16:17 Actually, no. 03:16:20 there we go 03:16:24 I don't keep the system console. 03:16:34 Gregor: yeah 03:16:45 http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-09-14.txt 03:16:50 Oh, that's true. It starts a new UML every time, doesn't it? 03:16:54 potentially if I did a bunch of them it would be obnoxious to the server 03:17:09 if there's nothing that kills wedged umlbox-linux processes 03:17:16 but, probably there is such a thing as that 03:18:06 All these Crypto Exceptions in mosh are annoying. 03:18:13 And they disappear immediately so I can't even read them. 03:18:23 kmc: Oh, it leaves the uml process running in a borked-up state? 03:20:44 yeah 03:21:02 kmc: i like how that article is like "lol, performance" 03:21:12 kmc: use it to make a HackEgo daemon imo 03:37:52 -!- kmc has set topic: One for yes, two for no | IGMuYwpjLmMuYwogYy5jCg== | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 03:38:46 ? 03:39:29 ! 03:39:37 :O 03:39:42 kmc: is that a multiocular c.c 03:39:55 yes 03:41:37 sorry for getting all nervous earlier, I think I'll continue that wargame thing later 03:41:41 thanks for the help 03:42:31 i hope we didn't overwhelm you with attempts to help 03:42:32 #haskell style 03:42:55 um, maybe a little 03:43:03 sorry :/ 03:43:09 CAN I HALP 03:43:13 it's okay! 03:43:14 I was trying to not help. 03:43:19 Because that would be spoilers. 03:43:22 Maybe that was unhelpful. 03:43:30 hi copumpkin 03:43:34 HALP 03:43:46 how's CT 03:44:04 it's the coend of the line 03:44:40 hey copumpkin did you ever read that story by ted chiang _Liking What You See: A Documentary_ 03:44:48 nope 03:44:58 what/where? 03:45:19 http://www.clarku.edu/welcome/placement/pdf/reading.pdf 03:45:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:46:10 thankee 03:46:15 what made you think of it? 03:46:34 MCALLISTER Keegan can confirm that it's good. Or not good. Depending on what he wants to confirm. 03:46:44 i will confirm 03:47:07 oh, I'm glad 03:47:20 MCALLISTER Keegan is reputable 03:47:28 shachaf has better taste in readings though 03:47:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:48:38 yes User Mode Linux is definitely like a dancing bear 03:48:49 the miracle is not that the bear dances well, but that he dances at all 03:49:16 it's the sort of thing that is obviously possible in principle, and yet obviously not going to work, and yet it does 03:49:26 * kmc thinks most of computers is like that, sometimes 03:50:26 dancing is pretty miraculous even for humans imo 03:53:05 * Fiora agrees with Bike 03:53:32 mine isn't 03:53:45 your dancing? 03:53:59 yeah 03:54:28 even if you fell flat on your face that would be amazing 03:54:38 have you ever thought about the amount of coordination involved in falling on your face 03:54:50 no 03:55:14 It's a lot. Keepin your hands in front of your head and such. 03:56:09 -!- yours_truly has joined. 03:56:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:58:12 -!- yours_truly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:58:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:01:49 -!- Lymia has joined. 04:04:37 `slist 04:04:39 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:12:06 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:32:39 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 04:32:44 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 04:32:44 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 04:32:59 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:33:03 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 04:37:25 I found out there is a ?action=render in MediaWiki which is close to what I have asked for. 04:55:34 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:56:16 -!- elliott has joined. 04:58:41 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:06:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ghoti). 05:31:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:43:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 05:49:07 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:11:54 * pikhq would like to randomly interject by saying that the Japanese MLP translation is well-done. 06:12:19 I don't think that qualifies as an interjection 06:12:42 More a statement really. 06:12:58 is it better in japanese or english? 06:13:16 really only the maltese localization preserves all the subtleties 06:13:22 hi Bike 06:13:27 `welcome Bike 06:13:31 Bike: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:13:57 thx shachaf 06:14:07 Bike: So have you learned about rank-2 types yet? 06:14:08 I'm probably not in a position to answer that... I *enjoyed* it more in Japanese, but when I watched it in English I had much less serotonin floating around. 06:14:33 more like serotonout am i right 06:14:42 maltese is apparently derived from arabic, with mixed-in italian and sicilian vocabulary 06:18:20 pikhq: personal issues? 06:18:50 coppro: Antidepressants are great, man. 06:18:51 nah he was just chillin' in a pool filled with neurotransmitters 06:18:58 pikhq: wheeeeee 06:19:43 ah, so what you're really saying is that MLP is better on drugs 06:20:33 Yeah, drugs that enhance your ability to derive pleasure from things, enhance the pleasure derived from things. 06:20:53 `pbflist 06:20:54 shachaf Sgeo quintopia 06:21:25 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: die). 06:26:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:28:03 -!- heroux has joined. 06:29:41 -!- btiffin has joined. 06:41:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:42:41 -!- heroux has joined. 06:43:47 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:56:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:57:56 -!- heroux has joined. 06:58:27 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:09:58 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 07:10:10 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:12:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:29:18 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:40:45 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:42:26 -!- heroux has joined. 07:49:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:53:09 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:53:57 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:55:01 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:57:49 -!- nooga has joined. 07:58:47 OK????!!!?!?!?!?!!!??? 07:59:06 Did you do that yet? 08:00:00 zzo38: What? 08:00:15 If not, it doesn't matter anyways. 08:07:59 Did zzo38 finally lose it completely? 08:09:27 Is there a difference? No. 08:09:52 I think that's a "yes". 08:10:02 No, there is not a difference. 08:15:35 I am glad that esolang wiki has not upgraded; the new stuff (even other than removing some skins) is completely crazy! 08:17:44 -!- btiffin has left. 08:21:33 -!- monqy has joined. 08:23:38 pblist? 08:23:58 Paddington Bear? 08:24:08 I don't know that. 08:24:10 pb usually means peanut butter ime 08:24:11 look again 08:24:27 I'm surprised you haven't made a Gopher proxy for the wiki already 08:27:27 A generic Gopher plugin for MediaWiki? 08:27:37 I could make some which is read-only; however, the wiki has too much formatting and stuff is needed... 08:27:46 It would work with simpler wikis though. 08:28:32 I'm sure you could persuade elliott "the energetic wiki sysadmin" elliott to install a Gopher plugin. 08:29:56 Would a gopher plugin for esolang wiki be useful in any ways anyways? I don't think so! 08:31:47 `slist 08:31:51 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:31:53 If there is one, you can say what it is; that way, is more persuasion and more explanation too. 08:35:23 I could not find one with a cursory search. 08:35:32 (Which is maybe slightly surprising?) 08:36:32 What do you expect it to do? 08:38:48 I would think it'd offer at least that read-only access to the wiki in question over the gopher protocol. I don't know what sort of menus it would have. 08:39:34 Possibly the menus for each category, is what menus it would have. 08:39:57 If the pages are written clearly enough, rendering them may not even be needed at all. 08:40:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 08:40:33 Gopher can serve HTML if needed, but generally you should use plain text if possible, to use on computers and programs and so on that are not HTML. 08:40:56 I think there are some existing tools for rendering MediaWiki markup into a plaintext approximation. 08:43:04 I also think that such a thing would not be a MediaWiki extension, but a separate program (possibly running on the same computer as the MediaWiki, accessing the same database). But, yes, such tools may be helpful for such purpose, I suppose. The file archive on esolang could also be accessed in the same gopher service. 08:43:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:44:47 Is this correct? 08:45:32 I don't know anything about MediaWiki extensions. But if they are bits and pieces of PHP, possibly it indeed makes more sense for it to be a separate program using the same database. 09:03:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:04:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:04:58 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:05:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 09:05:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:05:37 Random thought: 0xfull == 15. 09:06:40 0x0 == 0 09:07:17 fizzie: possible loss of precision in comparison 09:07:26 or, hmm, probably not 09:07:33 presumably both sides get cast to unsigned long long? 09:08:03 "The usual arithmetic conversions are performed." 09:08:43 ais523: Do you prefer one of Yoneda/CoYoneda? 09:08:58 shachaf: no, partly because I don't know what they are 09:09:04 they get mentioned here every now and then, though 09:09:04 The unsigned type has a rank greater than or equal of the rank of the signed one, so the 15 gets converted to unsigned long long. 09:09:09 0xDEADBULL 09:09:19 newtype Yoneda f a = Yoneda { runYoneda :: forall b. (a -> b) -> f b } 09:09:23 data CoYoneda f a = forall x. CoYoneda (f x) (x -> a) 09:09:25 it hasn't yet been converted to 0xDEADBEEF 09:10:10 0xFEEDAF0E 0xBADDECAF 09:10:55 0z5HACHAF (it's base-18). 09:10:57 if we 0xCULL a 0xBULL we end up with 0xDEADBEEF? I don't know where I'm going with this 09:11:13 Fiora: imo this is 0xadeadfad 09:11:25 It's all very 0xDULL. 09:11:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:11:46 > 0xfull 09:11:48 Not in scope: `ull' 09:11:48 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:11:48 `all' (imported fro... 09:11:53 Hmm. 09:11:59 > let ull = ull in 0xfull 09:12:01 15 09:12:22 @wn ull 09:12:23 *** "ull" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 09:12:23 Ull 09:12:23 n 1: (Norse mythology) one of the Aesir known for his beauty and 09:12:23 skill with bow and skis; son of Sif and stepson of Thor 09:12:23 [syn: {Ull}, {Ullr}] 09:12:25 oklofok: counting dots was great 09:12:56 shachaf: it must be too late at night because I'm laughing at that XD 09:12:57 this morning's test was kinda like the game simon, except with a number of squares that doubled at every good answer, rather than always four squares 09:13:24 That sonuds tricky 09:13:44 and sequences getting longer and longer AND a very limited time to give an answer 09:14:03 near the end he blew a correct answer because I was one second late :( 09:14:28 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 09:14:53 O_o 09:15:17 I just had a Red Screen of Death 09:15:26 And had to reboot my computer 09:15:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:15:42 but um... I've never even heard of a Red Screen of Death before 09:15:52 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 09:15:53 I didn't hear either. 09:16:00 But now you told me. 09:17:12 -!- nooga has joined. 09:17:35 ThatOtherPerson: way to spoil windows! 09:18:22 The color of the blue screen of death is customizable, at least. But maybe this was something else. 09:18:24 I found a chart in Wikipedia of religious % of people who belief evolution is a good explanation of human life on Earth. The most is Buddhist 81%. Unaffiliated is 72%, Jewish is 77%, Catholic is 58%, Jehovah's Witness is 8%. The total population surveyed has 48% in favor of the evolution explanation. 09:20:52 It wasn't like a BSOD either; it was completely red 09:20:57 There was no text 09:21:42 Was it blood? 09:21:57 fizzie: I don't think so. 09:22:05 Perhaps it was digital blood? 09:22:08 Could it have been a cable coming loose? 09:22:14 zzo38: are you belief evolution is a good explanation of human life on Earth 09:22:18 No, it's a laptop 09:22:32 And it stopped when I restarted the computer 09:22:40 I get the feeling that it was one of those things that isn't supposed to happen that isn't supposed to happen. 09:22:54 shachaf: Yes. I think the theory of evolution is a good theory. It may not be perfect, but that is why corrections are made is new thing are figure out! 09:23:01 As opposed to a BSOD, which is one of those things that isn't supposed to happen which is supposed to happen. 09:23:15 `run quote evolution | shuf 09:23:18 The wrong wrong thing and the right wrong thing. 09:23:18 No output. 09:23:22 I also never seen red screen of death. 09:23:32 `run quote telescop | shuf 09:23:34 No output. 09:23:38 `run quote charcoal | shuf 09:23:40 29) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" 09:24:45 `run quote $(words) | shuf 09:24:51 No output. 09:24:55 One day that will return an output. 09:26:59 Some people say evolution is no good; it is just a theory. Some people say, no; it is a fact. But those people seem to not understand. Evolution *is* a theory (not a fact), but a scientific theory is one that has the scientific method and all that; and it happens to be a very good theory. 09:27:29 Do you agree? 09:31:01 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") 09:31:10 afia: 09:31:20 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 09:31:23 Dang. (Both two of my in-query tests produced something.) 09:32:52 `which shuf 09:32:58 Evolution is a theory that agrees with people's observations. Sometimes I guess we need to make small modifications to that theory to make it fit better. It's probably pretty correct tho. 09:32:59 ​/usr/bin/shuf 09:33:18 Oh, that's handy 09:33:20 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") # NOT GIVING UP 09:33:22 at least it's more correct than saying some random creature created the world 09:33:25 hexact: 09:33:30 So close. 09:33:37 `quote hexham 09:33:39 622) also, why isn't monqy from Hexham? his name sounds like he should be \ 691) oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? \ 955) Yeah, thought so. 09:33:46 AnotherTest: Yes, I agree with you 09:34:26 Are you atheist, agnostic, theist, deist, pantheist, panentheist, etc? 09:34:50 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") 09:34:55 rccternrobabhujch: 09:34:58 ... 09:35:06 Is that a word? 09:35:09 I'm not surprised that that one's never been quoted 09:35:16 I got both "game" and "mand" when testing privately. 09:35:34 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") # natural 20? 09:35:42 ser: 389) drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liquid at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drink olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, because it has bo 09:35:45 Well, if made up at random it will perhaps sometimes make up real words too that is how they do. 09:36:06 zzo38: I think I am atheist. Although I like to call myself realist more 09:36:10 "canposer" is a nice word. 09:36:29 If someone could give me great proof that God exists, I would probably check it out 09:37:06 There is no proof that God does or does not exist; it isn't that kind of thing. However, do you know ignostic? I am also ignostic, so consider that, too. 09:38:36 zzo38: Well, I'm not sure if I understand "ignostic"... but, does it mean that a God if well defined might be possible? 09:38:48 Although there is no clear definition of God? 09:39:47 I do not believe in a personal God, in a anthropomorphic God, in a "sky fairy" God, in a God that directly created the world in a few days or whatever, etc. However, I do believe in God (but not necessarily what you mean by "God"). 09:40:20 AnotherTest: How would I know? 09:40:52 http://sprunge.us/MTIG that's probably not good. 09:41:07 Well, I do not believe in the kind of God that created the universe because that seems like a contradiction to me 09:41:10 I have now got 5 stars on all set-list songs on Guitar Hero 3 09:41:45 although if someone could proof there was such a god / show observations that point in that direction, I would reconsider 09:42:03 But currently, it seems pretty much impossible 09:42:29 zzo38: Then in what kind of god do you believe? 09:42:47 A lazy god? 09:43:08 Taneb: How many stars are there? 09:43:11 and he's called... HASKELL! 09:43:33 I believe that the universe is part of God, and that you could say God created everything but it would be extremely indirect! 09:43:40 5 09:43:44 Taneb: I was under the impression that it had some sort of difficulty levels. 09:44:05 AnotherTest: I do not think assigning qualities such as "lazy" and so on to God is meaningful, unless perhaps you mean lazy evaluation. 09:44:07 zzo38: So you believe in some sort of multi-verse? 09:44:09 (Maybe.) 09:44:23 medium 09:44:24 AnotherTest: Yes. However, that too, must be part of God. 09:44:45 Hm. Seems a little unending-recursive to me 09:45:16 But yeah, who knows 09:45:47 Now to start on the bonus songs 09:47:32 zzo38: what if we're actually in the matrix? 09:48:04 AnotherTest: Then what is the matrix in? 09:48:22 zzo38: in the matrix 09:48:32 and that matrix is also in a matrix 09:49:10 OK. I don't believe we are in the matrix, but of course I don't know; for the sake of the argument I will call it reasonable. 09:49:38 I don't think it makes much difference 09:50:41 It doesn't change what God is, though, in what I mean by that. In what you mean by that, it might, though. 09:51:20 I notice that in a statement "God exists" not only is it not entirely clear what "God" means but also it is not known what "exists" means in this context, either. 09:51:40 zzo38: What about the theory where ais523, who came from the year 523 (I have reason to suspect ais523 is actually pope Hormisdas), and then created the matrix where he put us all in? 09:52:01 ok probably not that likely 09:52:26 AnotherTest: I don't think that is likely or reasonable, but it doesn't change it anyways. 09:53:23 What if there does not exist a supernatural creature? That's what I like to believe. 09:53:40 God is more like an idea to me. 09:53:45 I do not mean by "God", some kind of supernatural creature. 09:54:02 what /do/ you mean by God? 09:54:19 Is it something physical? 09:55:11 No! Physical things are in the universe, the universe is in (maybe) some multiverse, is in ..., is in mathematics, is in ... [infinitely much, possibly?], is in God 09:55:41 Therefore, God is not in spacetime, so it doesn't make sense to say what comes before God, nor what comes after God. 09:55:47 where is God in? 09:55:59 God. 09:56:29 wait 09:56:39 the universe in /in/ mathematics? 09:56:55 Don't you mean: mathematics can be used to describe the universe 09:57:21 I do think I made some mistakes there; I didn't really mean all of that literally like I said. 09:57:35 I just meant that it is all a part of God. 09:57:42 So actually you're saying God is the universe set 09:57:49 *universal 09:58:16 Yes, mathematics can be used to describe the universe. 09:58:22 Well, I'd just call it the universal set then 09:58:27 not "God" or anything 09:58:35 AnotherTest: That is probably the closest concept you have, but it is not precisely what I meant. 09:59:13 zzo38: Is God idea you have conscious? 09:59:50 ugh 09:59:50 But that is describing with words. Not everything you can describe with words! 10:00:07 "Is this God idea of yours conscious?" 10:00:29 Well, why wouldn't you be able to answer that 10:00:30 it's just a property 10:00:41 does it have a free will? 10:01:35 That is difficult. I suppose you could say yes, but in other words it is also no; that is what makes it difficult. I also find it difficult to explain why this is. 10:01:52 (And what I mean by this isn't contradictory.) 10:02:33 I also don't mean that I don't know; even though I don't know. 10:03:09 that does sound like a contradiction to me 10:03:13 "yes and no" 10:03:18 "I know but I also don't" 10:03:35 That is not at all what I meant. I simply am unable to explain what I mean. 10:03:40 That would either mean contradiction or it would mean something in between 10:03:46 oh right 10:04:20 Actually, I can try a little bit, by asking a question: Can you precisely define what you mean by "consciousness" and "free will"? 10:05:30 Well I think conscious could be defined by 1. can it do self reflection 2. can it think of the future 10:05:41 that's probably incomplete though 10:06:14 as for free will, can it make independent decisions (some people think humans can't) 10:06:34 For 1. I suppose yes; for 2. you still need to define "think" though; furthermore, as to the future, that has to do with time, so what future do you mean, specifically? 10:07:36 zzo38: can it plan what it's going to do / should do in the future 10:07:45 eg. I can plan making a city trip tomorrow 10:07:59 I can even imagine how that would be (roughly) 10:08:00 For independent decisions, it means, independent from what? What is there to be independent from? 10:08:32 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 10:08:33 And for the future, that is an error because time is really a function of the universe, not directly of God, surely! 10:08:37 independent from the exterior 10:09:03 zzo38: oh right, I forgot that God was a 1 dimensional being 10:09:07 although that's impossible 10:09:23 We always think of times as being some sort of "absolute" even though we have theories to know it isn't. 10:09:26 because you can never put n dimension into n-1 dimensions? 10:09:42 Or am I wrong about that last 10:10:18 I did not mean God was a 1 dimensional being, or really a "being". However, in some cases you can put n dimension into n-1 dimensions, I think. 10:11:05 zzo38: well s/being/entity 10:11:44 Maybe 0-dimensional would be a better description, but I am unsure. 10:11:45 I think if you want to put an n dimension object into n - 1 dimensions you'd have to make a projection of it 10:12:05 which means it would become n - 1 dimensional 10:12:49 AnotherTest: That is one way. However, I can also make a one-dimensional chess game which is the same as the two-dimensional chess game. 10:13:28 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:13:39 zzo38: Really? I'm not sure about that. The basic concept is the same, but it isn't exactly the same right? 10:14:00 Also, that's definitely not possible for everything 10:14:16 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:14:18 eg. you can't make a non-animated animation 10:14:32 AnotherTest: Yes, I know, it is not possible for everything. But it is possible; you can look it up if you want to! 10:16:40 Spinoza said "Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived." [7] "Individual things are nothing but modifications of the attributes of God, or modes by which the attributes of God are expressed in a fixed and definite manner." [8] 10:16:51 (These numbers are footnotes in Wikipedia) 10:17:46 The world is not God, but it is, in a strong sense, "in" God. (Also according to Wikipedia; same paragraph) 10:18:02 someone else said "God doesn't exist." I guess 10:18:36 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 10:19:01 Yes, probably many people have. Probably many people have said "God exists", too. 10:19:10 Yeah 10:19:29 I think it's just a little unlikely how everything is in some abstract entity known as God 10:19:56 I think infinity doesn't exist in practice 10:20:18 well not in practice 10:20:25 in physical sense 10:20:34 the universe isn't on infinite size 10:20:37 *of 10:21:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:21:48 I understand you, perhaps you are correct; you can have your own beliefs. But I think mathematics is a "higher reality" than the universe. 10:22:20 Well, as long as people don't use god as an excuse for stuff or reason to do something bad, they can think whatever they want 10:22:46 Like "oh let's kill them because gods wants us to" 10:23:29 I do agree with you that using God as an excuse for all this stuff is a bad idea; I am against that kind of stuff as much as you are, probably. 10:28:10 -!- heroux has joined. 10:37:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:48:06 !blsq "122333444455555"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++ 10:48:18 hm. 10:49:45 mroman: do you have the pdf for that compression algorithm in English too? 10:49:49 My german isn't that great 10:51:09 -!- carado has joined. 10:55:02 Well. I can write one if you like. 10:58:40 I didn't think anybody would be interested in it so I didn't bother with an english one. 11:01:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:03:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:09:16 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:09:52 -!- jix has joined. 11:11:58 It appears that my code has a heisenbug 11:12:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:14:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:16:05 ThatOtherPerson: You need to use a deplancker. 11:16:18 :D 11:16:40 It's this kind of a spray that removes quantum effects. 11:18:40 Sounds like a very fine spray. 11:25:29 It's made of tiny eyeballs. 11:25:47 GET IT? BECAUSE PEOPLE HONESTLY THINK THAT QUANTUM MECHANICS HAS TO DO WITH OBSERVATION. 11:26:23 -!- monqy has joined. 11:36:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:38:04 -!- heroux has joined. 11:41:20 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:41:25 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 11:41:58 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:42:27 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 12:01:40 -!- augur has joined. 12:04:00 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:08:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:10:21 -!- heroux has joined. 12:11:02 -!- oonbotti has joined. 12:12:57 -!- kyyni has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:17:04 -!- kyyni has joined. 12:18:37 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:21:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:22:22 -!- heroux has joined. 12:23:21 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:24:40 -!- bengt_ has joined. 12:37:49 AnotherTest: Why are you actually interested, if I may ask. 12:42:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:43:32 -!- heroux has joined. 12:53:51 mroman: I'm always interested in new compression algorithms 12:54:35 and I needed to compress text some time ago 12:54:49 and I'm going to need to do that again 12:55:26 with just really small texts. I want to see whether you can use this in combination with something like gzip though 13:00:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:01:07 -!- heroux has joined. 13:07:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:07:15 -!- monqy has joined. 13:12:06 oklofok: I should've trained more with your game 13:13:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:13:21 -!- boily has joined. 13:13:52 -!- heroux has joined. 13:35:21 -!- atriq has joined. 13:37:03 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 13:37:06 -!- carado_ has joined. 13:59:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:01:26 -!- heroux has joined. 14:02:26 Recently I've been ordering Coke with various syrup flavor shots, because the little shop in the Purdue CS department gives me that option so why not. 14:02:34 Discovery: Coke with coconut syrup is not a good idea. 14:06:37 -!- nooodl__ has changed nick to nooodl. 14:08:29 tromp_, oerjan, the translation of the Prime sieve for Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download changes only one half of the IO conventions 14:09:03 No, nevermind 14:12:38 Gregor: how come? coconut usually tastes pretty good. 14:12:54 Not with Coke. 14:13:00 I definitely like coconut. 14:13:03 ... but not with Coke. 14:13:07 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:14:16 atriq: right; because primes usees only the output half. it ignores input:) 14:15:13 I completely misunderstood what the output was trying to be 14:17:01 i'th char is '1' (ascii 49) iff i is prime 14:17:10 What if I brought a bot in that always replied to what fungot said with fungot in the message 14:17:11 AnotherTest: went to bed). i have used such a device is a wacom fnord). 14:17:12 otherwise '0' (ascii 48) 14:17:16 would it start a conversation? 14:18:13 Yes 14:18:19 Until fizzie made it not 14:19:39 ~duck fizzie 14:19:40 --- No relevant information 14:22:15 fizzie: How are you today? 14:22:20 oops 14:22:25 it would start a conversation for a few lines 14:22:26 and then stop 14:22:26 fungot: How are you today? 14:22:27 AnotherTest: s location sucks.)" 14:22:53 elliott, what if AnotherTest's bot had a delayer built in? 14:23:17 it is not time-based 14:25:36 there is a house in new fungot 14:25:37 atriq: or the compiler could fnord the machine code requirement, but we need a fnord to use ( fnord function expression*) and ( min) 14:25:41 they call the fungot fungot 14:25:41 atriq: i wrote an article about that. couldn't have been ' development.' ' a. 14:25:48 it's been the ruin of many fungot 14:25:48 atriq: i dunno why this is happening 14:25:54 and fungot knew was one 14:25:55 atriq: ' lo fnord :p.) and humorous, though. 14:25:59 fungot what 14:26:08 Okay, good test 14:26:13 fungot yay 14:26:18 -!- atriq has changed nick to Ngevd. 14:26:20 fungot 14:26:20 Ngevd: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 14:26:20 Ngevd: or the files? sockets? last time i had problem with it 14:26:26 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to atriq. 14:26:28 fungot 14:26:28 atriq: yet more evidence that catfive is at least memorable. when i use syntax-case i can no longer face the torment 14:26:34 elliott, what if it changed nicks 14:26:50 that would probably work 14:27:08 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:27:48 Does fungot base some part of its messages on what's being said? Or just totally random generated text? 14:27:48 AnotherTest: i think. i mean when i say you don't want infix function calls. 14:29:20 latter 14:29:45 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 14:31:07 What's fungot opinion on the Underhanded C contest? 14:31:07 ThatOtherPerson: says mikrobitti but doesn't mention how one'd get the number of 14:32:02 fungot: Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put! 14:32:02 ThatOtherPerson: but unload: pop *top fnord if possible from the relevant stacks of stacks of function pointers 14:32:23 why is fungot so obsessed with fnords all of a sudden 14:32:23 ThatOtherPerson: the language list 14:32:40 Which language list? 14:32:55 the `list. 14:40:32 ThatOtherPerson, it uses fnord as "I didn't get enough examples of this word so I didn't bother remembering it" 14:43:18 Don't type `list, especially in-channel 14:43:24 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:43:25 It'll annoy a bunch of people 14:43:49 `list 14:43:51 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 14:44:13 You mayswell type it know, ThatOtherPerson 14:46:47 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:47:23 Hmm 14:47:33 I wonder how hard it'd be to play dwarf fortress via ssh 14:48:08 atriq: probably not hard, if I compare that to my experience with crawl. 14:50:48 Hey, what's the font Dwarf Fortress uses in its graphical interface? 14:51:57 a reproduction of CP437 from the elder days. 14:52:03 -!- carado_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:52:03 probably fixedsys or something. 14:53:13 but then, you have stuff like this, confusing the matter: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Tileset_repository 14:58:04 wow i missed some deep philosophy 14:59:13 ~metar CYUL 14:59:14 CYUL 031400Z 26021G31KT 30SM OVC200 M03/M13 A2997 RMK CI8 CF TR SLP150 14:59:16 kmc: yes 15:01:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:04:32 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:10:28 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:11:53 -!- conehead has joined. 15:23:30 AnotherTest: I see. 15:25:45 ~metar KBOS 15:25:45 KBOS 031454Z 27019G27KT 10SM FEW050 SCT250 03/M13 A2997 RMK AO2 PK WND 27031/1405 SLP149 T00331133 57010 15:27:32 how did deadfish replace Emmental on the front page 15:27:35 how dit that happen 15:28:39 kmc: windy for you too? 15:31:33 generic random haskell question: what is Traversable? 15:31:48 It's a fun thing of fun 15:31:55 :t T.traverse 15:31:56 Couldn't find qualified module. 15:31:58 :t traverse 15:32:00 (Applicative f, Traversable t) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) 15:32:05 That's the core of it 15:32:23 It's something you can map an applicative action over and collect the effects, basically 15:33:36 ~eval traverse Just [1, 2, 3] 15:33:39 Error (1): 15:33:40 ~eval traverse Just [1, 2, 3] 15:33:42 Just [1,2,3] 15:33:53 Koen_: an administrator waved a magic wand 15:34:43 ~eval traverse (\x -> if even x then Just x else Nothing) [1..4] 15:34:44 Nothing 15:35:31 ~eval traverse (\x -> (Sum x, x `div` 2)) [1..4] 15:35:32 (Sum {getSum = 10},[0,1,1,2]) 15:35:45 oh. 15:35:56 ooooooh. 15:36:07 I think I'm beginning to be illuminated. 15:36:32 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:36:37 ~eval traverse (show x, x) [1..4] 15:36:37 Error (1): Not in scope: `x'Not in scope: `x' 15:36:45 ~eval traverse (\x -> show x, x) [1..4] 15:36:45 Error (1): Not in scope: `x' 15:36:51 ~eval traverse (\x -> (show x, x)) [1..4] 15:36:51 ("1234",[1,2,3,4]) 15:37:31 * boily puts on his glasses of +5 protection from radiance 15:38:29 Koen_: why should you have trained more? are you being tested for astronautship or something? 15:38:33 ~eval traverse (\x -> [x, x + 1, x + 2]) (Just 4) 15:38:34 [Just 4,Just 5,Just 6] 15:38:40 ~eval traverse (\x -> [x, x + 1, x + 2]) [1..3] 15:38:40 [[1,2,3],[1,2,4],[1,2,5],[1,3,3],[1,3,4],[1,3,5],[1,4,3],[1,4,4],[1,4,5],[2,2,3],[2,2,4],[2,2,5],[2,3,3],[2,3,4],[2,3,5],[2,4,3],[2,4,4],[2,4,5],[3,2,3],[3,2,4],[3,2,5],[3,3,3],[3,3,4],[3,3,5],[3,4,3],[3,4,4],[3,4,5]] 15:38:44 actually i think you mentioned what these tests are about but i have no idea 15:39:16 oklofok, a computer science school that some rich guy is paying for 15:39:18 iirc 15:39:44 oh right 15:41:04 i'd love a school that teaches these sorts of important skills instead of just testing your ability in them and then teaching you something else 15:41:06 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:41:12 counting dots 101 15:41:33 when i get rich there's gonna be such a school 15:41:43 what tests 15:42:11 Koen_'s ability to remember sequences and make pictures out of triangles are being tested 15:44:47 ...Martin Freeman will be in all three of the Blood and Ice Cream trilogy 15:54:35 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:55:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 15:55:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:56:40 AnotherTest: https://github.com/FMNSSun/noe/raw/master/noe_en.pdf 15:56:45 ^- is that good enough? 15:56:52 wow thanks 15:57:09 yeah 15:58:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:58:33 there are some typos probably :) 15:58:55 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:59:16 and I probably should mention the parameters I used :) 16:04:03 -!- ineiros has joined. 16:09:11 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:09:24 ok. I updated it. 16:09:30 it now includes also some calculations ;) 16:28:51 AnotherTest: Botloops are kind of a channel tradition, but usually (well, I don't have hard stats on this) they're been done using vaguely quine-like tools. There's one really short one in Underload. 16:28:59 (Though regular chat-loops have happened too.) 16:29:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:30:02 It's not that scary! 16:30:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:30:10 Come on. 16:30:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:30:25 sorry my client completely crashed 16:30:34 Botloops of the first kind are still possible with fungot; it only has the "only reply up to four times consecutively to the same bot" rule for chat, not ^commands. But it also has an ignore list of known bots. 16:30:34 fizzie: writing out memoized versions of the program than it's formatting 16:30:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:30:46 (One day I'll adopt the Gregor solution™.) 16:31:17 (That's prefixing every line of output with a zero-width space so it doesn't trigger commands that are triggered with a prefix.) 16:31:20 gregor solution is worst solution 16:31:35 fizzie: Actually I only prefix lines that don't match /^[A-Za-z0-9]/ 16:31:48 my new bot prefix: 0 16:32:06 Gregor: That's even fancier. 16:32:25 ^ignore 16:32:25 ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|jconn)! 16:32:39 elliott: Don't you mean that your new bot prefix is zero-width space? 16:32:55 haha 16:32:56 good idea 16:32:58 -!- Bike has joined. 16:43:55 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:44:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:44:18 AnotherTest: The algorithm can be optimised to perform better on longer texts by using prefixes etc. to encode to length of the positions etc. etc. 16:44:29 it however doesn't stand a chance against other compression algorithms 16:44:40 with longer texts. 16:44:46 I therefore did not describe that. 16:46:27 -!- NuclearMeltdown has left. 16:50:11 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:02:54 elliott: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15792934/how-is-merge-and-split-not-in-scope-haskell 17:04:39 haskell is so confusing 17:05:55 as a professional expert confusion consultant, I concur. 17:06:59 huh, iain m banks is dying. 17:07:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:08:01 methinks a language that avoids confusion altogether can't beall that great 17:08:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:11:40 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:17:04 maybe the best language is one that causes the most possible amount of confusion 17:17:48 which means that java is pretty poor, but C++ is excellent? 17:18:40 hmm, yes 17:19:49 there is something to be said for deceptive simplicity though - and I think C++ often seems close to as confusing as it is 17:20:00 it's only goof if the confusion can be overcome and lead to enlightenment 17:20:02 good 17:20:38 therefore, the best language out there is lisp. 17:23:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:33:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:33:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:40:39 You meant to say Smalltalk. 17:43:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 17:44:25 no, i am spartacus 17:49:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:49:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:51:46 I am alive 17:52:55 I am not 17:52:56 I'm making a note here: Huge success. 17:55:01 Is the success that I am alive or that not is elliott? 17:56:51 It's hard to understate my satisfaction 17:58:29 atriq: I was considering saying that it was hard to overstate my dissatisfaction. 17:58:34 But I was too dissatisfied. 17:58:39 Thank you for doing what you must. 17:58:40 Because. 17:58:40 You can. 17:59:22 I exist, therefore I Can-adian. 18:00:06 I or elliott exist. 18:00:11 elliott does not exist. 18:00:15 Therefore I exist 18:00:21 I both exist and don't exist 18:00:26 at the same time 18:00:35 Then I'm the pope 18:01:06 did that just happen 18:02:47 ni 18:02:50 *no 18:02:55 no, it did not 18:03:04 good 18:03:04 We are not the knights who say ni 18:03:10 They aren't us 18:03:31 -!- monqy has joined. 18:03:57 No, we are the coders who say "it" 18:04:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:04:19 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 18:04:34 somebody make an h2g2 joke so i can flop around in shame 18:06:29 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:06:50 wait where is the h2g2 joke 18:07:02 I don't know any 18:07:10 I MUST FLOP 18:07:39 flop like uhhh zem 18:07:42 remember zem 18:07:46 from squornthingy zeta! 18:07:50 the mattress planet. AM I HELPING 18:07:57 * Bike flops all over elliott 18:08:04 were you around yesterday when Koen_ told us all about the 42 institute of computer science and horrible nerd culture 18:08:18 yesh 18:08:32 you're right i'll have to flop all over him too 18:08:36 is that a yes or a yeesh 18:08:51 monqy: oh boy what did i miss 18:09:01 btw i like h2g2 :---/ 18:09:03 i guess i forgot to tell you to check the logs 18:09:16 "In Finland we have a saying: ‘Pitäkää tunkkinne’. It means: I fucking tried to pay for this, but your service only promotes piracy through rather expensive pricing, shitty image quality — and, well, unfortunately also your programs are unnecessarily late." 18:09:20 i liked h2g2 when i read it!! i read it a lot of times i own the complete edition with all the books it's big and....blue? 18:09:21 i like monty python and portal too 18:09:29 ... finnish is quite terse 18:09:33 monqy: ye i own a combined one too (possibly the same one? i dont think its blue) 18:09:39 it's real good 18:09:40 well there are 2 combined ones 18:09:43 one is green and one is blue 18:09:44 The one with the grinning circle on the cover? 18:09:51 That's the one I've got. 18:09:51 both have a grinning circle 18:09:52 ok you know more about combined h2g2 editions than me monqy 18:09:54 are you a COLLECTOR 18:09:59 well like 18:10:04 the grinning circle is green? 18:10:12 the grinning circle can also be blue 18:10:23 ok well i have the green circle one 18:10:28 i have to find my copy then i can tell you all about how it's exactly the same except it's blue and has another book in it 18:10:45 mine has the uh, young zaphod gets stoned, or whatever it's called 18:10:47 i actually don't mind the tired h2g2 references unless they're really really tired like 42 b/c it's just nice to see it 18:12:39 unfortunately the only reference anyone can fucking bother with is 42 soooooooooooooooo 18:12:49 42 18:13:06 monqy: um there's also almost but not entirely unlike X 18:13:09 elliott: the koen Thing in question is http://www.42.fr just so you know 18:13:10 and uh 18:13:23 hanging in the air the way bricks don't 18:13:27 something about whales? 18:13:30 oh or the drink 18:13:37 getting smashed in with a golden brick or whatever? 18:13:52 there's also MarvinPA [laugh track] 18:14:02 (rest of the channel that isnt monqy: ignore above line) 18:14:44 Bike: what the heckers is this 18:15:18 some french internet guy doing a learny thing 18:15:18 42 18:15:20 uuuuugh i forget where i put it ~all those years ago~ 18:15:21 42 42 18:15:35 filled with Nerd Jokes apparently 18:16:14 yeah it's not that nerds like bad things, it's that we like good things and run them into the fucking ground 18:16:26 although I may be just as guilty of this as anyone else 18:16:33 ~duck 42 18:16:34 --- No relevant information 18:16:40 ~duck forty-two 18:16:40 Forty-two is a 1945 clone which can be scripted in Guile (GPLv3, Games). 18:16:57 ~duck answer to universe 18:16:58 --- No relevant information 18:16:58 elliott: do you remember when the word "grok" was actually a useful neologism and not just a pretentious synonym for "know" 18:17:11 I don't grok you, kmc 18:17:11 what did it mean 18:17:12 well probably not because it was like 10 years before either of us was born but, 18:17:24 * Bike stopped reading that book once! 18:17:30 (kmc is about the same age as elliott?) 18:17:31 'Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man.' 18:17:33 I don't mind grok that much idk 18:17:35 I don't see it much 18:17:36 no i'm older 18:17:39 elliott: i see it a lot 18:17:46 ~duck grok 18:17:47 it's a job posting cliché, almost as much as ninja rockstar 18:17:47 grok definition: to understand profoundly and intuitively. 18:17:56 yeah that just sounds like "know really well" to me idk 18:18:08 ...I've been using "grok" to mean "come to understand" 18:18:16 kmc is like twice as old as me or something 18:18:28 job postings are largely about companies signalling that they're cool and integrated with 'nerd culture' 18:18:31 ...34? 18:18:39 * kmc is 25 18:18:42 maybe if i like actually read Strange 18:18:44 Stranger* 18:18:49 i didn't read it either 18:18:49 have any of you done that? kmc? 18:18:52 well then 18:18:59 you fraud. 18:19:02 kmc is almost as old as I've been mistaken to be 18:19:03 welp 18:19:15 that kind of job posting is usually an instant disqualification 18:19:18 25 is roughly 34 really 18:19:23 Saying that, I've been to a pub and ordered alcohol wearing a fake beard 18:19:33 how old are you actually atriq 18:19:37 18 18:19:43 Old enough to legally drink 18:19:44 and I think using "grok" in one of those is completely different from using grok in almost any other circumstance 18:19:47 18 and 25... noted. 18:20:02 gah i'm old 18:20:08 boily, I do announce my birthday when it comes round 18:20:11 42 42 42 18:20:15 and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun 18:20:18 ♫ 18:20:27 ♫ ♫ ♫ 18:20:35 kmc: omg ur so old 18:20:35 (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:20:40 42 42 42 42 42 18:20:46 COMBINING_WALL_ABOVE 18:20:47 `addquote (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:20:47 one day i may even be 42 years old 18:20:52 1007) (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:20:58 maybe i should include the rest 18:21:00 `delquote 1007 18:21:05 ​*poof* (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:21:08 the rest is just lyrics 18:21:10 nah then it's just embarssing 18:21:11 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 18:21:16 `addquote and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:21:22 kmc: that is ok 18:21:23 1007) and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:21:25 now i'm embarassed 18:21:27 * Bike puts on Bike 18:21:27 look what you've done el 18:21:28 liot 18:21:29 t 18:21:30 that is ok 18:21:34 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 18:21:35 i've got a bike, you can ride it if you like 18:21:43 `logs * cigar 18:21:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found 18:21:49 `pastlogs * cigar 18:21:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 18:21:51 hmm, I don't think I've realized that song has lyrics before 18:21:54 `pastlog * cigar 18:21:56 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 18:22:02 have a cigar? 18:22:06 person could you just like 18:22:08 stop 18:22:15 who is person 18:22:17 oh 18:22:20 BUT WHO WAS PERSON 18:22:20 fibonacci sequence 18:22:21 i was mentally ignoring him 18:22:25 kmc, I don't any more 18:22:25 for saying 42 a lot 18:22:25 No output. 18:22:28 without even realising it 18:22:30 yeah me too but it's getting long now 18:22:40 > let fib n = 42 in map fib [1..] 18:22:41 like i don't think i even saw the first one? 18:23:17 Trivia: I have a cousin who is just like me, except Australian and somehow less awesome. 18:23:54 Is awesomeness inversely related to Australianness? 18:24:06 we're at 1007 quotes? 18:24:58 > let fib n = case n of {0 -> [42]; 1 -> [42]; n -> fib (n - 1) ++ fib (n - 2)} in fib 42 18:25:32 `quote 1000 18:25:34 1000) `quote 1000 18:25:34 ThatOtherPerson, it's positively correlated 18:25:37 ThatOtherPerson: presumably non-inversely 18:25:42 or it wouldn't be "somehow" 18:25:50 `quote 999 18:25:52 ah, of course 18:25:52 999) ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] Domain Name System [...] ♫ domain name system ♫ 18:26:18 domain name system surrounded by two pink floyd guitar solos 18:26:24 `quote 1 18:26:27 `quote ♫ 18:26:27 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. 18:26:28 999) ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] Domain Name System [...] ♫ domain name system ♫ \ 1007) and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guita 18:26:30 kmc: you've become a little bit too melodious than socially acceptable lately. anything happened in your life? 18:26:36 :O 18:26:38 not really 18:27:00 ThatOtherPerson, you came after itidus20. 18:27:08 He was an awesome Australian 18:27:11 `quote itidus 18:27:13 405) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 426) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 427) itidus20: i s 18:27:25 Lord_DeathMatch is pretty awesome and also Australian 18:27:31 hmm, what happened to itidus? 18:27:42 olsner, had a row with Phantom_Hoover or something 18:27:59 ok 18:28:40 `quote 427 18:28:41 427) itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. 18:30:10 `quote 42 18:30:13 42) If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. 18:30:33 `quote row 18:30:35 125) INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 157) [spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. \ 171) "* There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is 18:36:23 `quote internet 18:36:25 93) alise: why internet is like wtf \ 113) reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it \ 125) INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 217) ais523: Maybe it 18:37:04 `which quote 18:37:05 ​/hackenv/bin/quote 18:37:13 `cat /hackenv/bin/quote 18:37:15 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 18:37:30 `allquotes 18:37:31 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 2) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 4) that's where I got it roc 18:38:11 `which allquotes 18:38:12 ​/hackenv/bin/allquotes 18:38:21 `cat /hackenv/bin/allquotes 18:38:23 ​#!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes 18:39:12 `pastequotes 18:39:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18531 18:41:16 `cat /hackenv/bin/pastequotes 18:41:20 ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1"; else allquotes; fi | paste 18:41:39 `echo 42 | paste 18:41:40 42 | paste 18:42:13 `run echo 42 | paste 18:42:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31267 18:42:35 What a waste of paste. 18:44:22 `quote 959 18:44:29 959) I'm a story about the prohibition of chocolate 18:44:40 Trivia: that made perfect sense in my head 18:44:46 And I still know what I was on about 18:46:44 `quote boily 18:46:46 940) boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world \ 941) ~eval 1+2 Error (127): this is a great bot boily i love it \ 950) not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. \ 953) ais523: I'm not sure my 18:47:52 ok. nothing perverted and or of a purple tinge happened in my numerous absences. my paranoïa is satisfied. 18:50:29 `quote 897 18:50:31 897) That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people 18:50:46 That's simultaneously very me and very not me 18:52:23 atriq: why did you change your name to atriq again 18:52:45 Look who else is in the channel 18:54:14 Hint: it's Taneb 18:56:35 He's an impostor! 18:56:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:57:19 -!- augur has joined. 18:57:42 My computer's on upstairs and set to auto-reconnect 18:58:16 I could ssh in and kill the process but there's not much point because I'm heading upstairs in a few minutes 19:00:17 He keeps on saying that 19:00:21 But he never does 19:01:49 atriq: /msg nickserv ghost taneb 19:01:49 -!- SDr has changed nick to sdr|Flu. 19:02:03 elliott, wanna see what happens? 19:02:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:02:14 i knew what would happen 19:02:16 Now wait a couple of secs 19:02:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:02:50 well if you ghost it 19:02:51 and then type /nick taneb 19:02:56 see what happens then! 19:03:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:03:12 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 19:03:12 taneb___ 19:03:35 -!- atriq has joined. 19:03:43 hi atriq 19:03:48 "welcome back" 19:03:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:03:58 Hi oerjan 19:04:06 My and atriq are having a fight to the death 19:04:12 hi Taneb 19:04:44 you should pick up tips from hulk and dr. banner, then 19:05:05 Hi Taneb! 19:05:06 If it's gonna progress it will involve running up and down stairs 19:05:15 Haven't seen you for a couple of weeks. 19:05:28 I've been about 19:05:29 Taneb: no gamma rays? boring. 19:05:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:10:49 Hah! 19:10:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:11:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:11:38 `? atriq 19:11:47 atriq or two 19:12:13 atriq or two and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends 19:12:22 :O 19:12:25 o rly 19:12:35 Taneb: ^ o rly? 19:13:07 `run grep -i leijon wisdom/* 19:13:07 ~duck nepeta leijon 19:13:08 `! atriq 19:13:09 --- No relevant information 19:13:09 wisdom/shachaf:shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 19:13:11 ATRIQ OR TWO 19:13:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:19 shachaf: are you saying you are atriq 19:13:45 the truth is out 19:13:48 I am shachaf 19:13:52 I wouldn't be surprised. no way there are enough people in this world for having a distinct shachaf to an atriq. 19:13:54 *GASP* 19:13:56 oerjan: no, i'm saying that and cosplaying Nepeta Leijoin on weekends is a popular things to do 19:14:06 OKAY 19:14:13 atriq's puns are not fun enough to be me 19:14:14 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 19:14:48 Iain Banks has terminal cancer :( 19:14:49 -!- ThatOtherPerson has changed nick to atriq. 19:14:53 `? taneb 19:14:55 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules) 19:15:06 `? ngevd 19:15:07 ​n!?[5ru/[wB—ؙ<ܩT[m{q"s_XKШ?YVfF$}q[A-3.."TwK&⒯wE)װan*Wz7LtJ*q\8E6vT[!_.ϲͅ;LG{2UIoP—~7b殽*@@#A. f}BgA{qjz0bz"^BtqEAkuL{t/@=FH+=WJf.ޘD^@]߷Q Bike: that's actually a special case 19:15:20 `? ngevd | paste 19:15:21 ngevd | paste? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:15:27 `run ? ngevd | paste 19:15:30 whoa, man 19:15:45 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12841 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 12: 299 File size limit exceededcat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" 19:15:48 `run paste wisdom/ngevd 19:15:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom/ngevd 19:16:02 Taneb: GOOD JOB 19:16:03 ????? 19:16:20 oerjan: Thank you. 19:16:25 `run -l wisdom/*gev* 19:16:27 bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \ 19:16:30 `run ls -l wisdom/*gev* 19:16:37 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 25 Mar 31 19:00 wisdom/ngevd 19:16:38 -!- atriq has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:16:49 ONLY I MAY BE ATRIQ 19:16:51 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq. 19:17:05 i hope you're actually running up and down the stairs 19:17:08 `run rm -f --force wisdom/ngevd --force 19:17:09 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 19:17:12 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 19:17:16 No output. 19:17:29 `file wisdom/Ngevd 19:17:33 wisdom/Ngevd: ERROR: cannot open `wisdom/Ngevd' (No such file or directory) 19:17:37 `? Ngevd 19:17:39 Ngevd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:17:41 By Nathan I was killed and by Nathan I live 19:17:48 shachaf, why 19:17:55 atriq: did you see what it said 19:17:57 `! atriq 19:18:01 ATRIQ OR TWO! 19:18:03 Much better. 19:18:11 (It now adds a ! at the end if one does not exist.) 19:18:36 `? structural subtyping 19:18:38 Not to be confused with substructural typing. 19:18:39 `? substructural typing 19:18:41 Not to be confused with structural subtyping. 19:18:43 :-( 19:18:59 "ngevd more like ein gedi" 19:19:01 good ol' maths 19:19:11 atriq: what does that even mean 19:19:41 it's friesian for "a butt" 19:20:56 -!- AnotherTest1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:21:13 fizzie: fancy 19:21:15 Yay. 19:21:28 `ls -l wisdom/Ngevd 19:21:30 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 19:21:46 `run ls -l wisdom/Ngevd 19:21:48 (why would that help...) 19:21:49 ls: cannot access wisdom/Ngevd: No such file or directory 19:22:02 `? ngevd 19:22:03 ngevd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:22:03 Phantom_Hoover: wisdom/ is uniformly lowercase 19:22:08 huh 19:22:18 `run ls -l wisdom/ngevd 19:22:19 ls: cannot access wisdom/ngevd: No such file or directory 19:22:20 however i believe that file is actually gone. 19:22:22 `run ls wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]' 19:22:23 `help 19:22:24 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 19:22:24 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:22:33 oerjan, nooooooooooooo 19:22:34 `run ls ./wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]' 19:22:37 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 19:22:45 wow HackEgo 19:22:49 `run /bin/ls wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]' 19:22:54 ais523 \ america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bike \ bird \ boily \ bonvenon \ bookwatching \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ category \ category-helpdesk \ certainly \ certainty \ claustrophobia \ coffee \ color \ colour \ comedogenic \ comonad \ conspirabiology \ 19:22:57 it's security, shachaf 19:22:58 oops 19:23:01 `ln -s wisdom/ngevd /dev/urandom 19:23:03 shachaf: SHEESH 19:23:04 `? ngevd 19:23:07 ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 19:23:08 ngevd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:23:09 `rm wisdom/ngevd 19:23:13 rm: cannot remove `wisdom/ngevd': No such file or directory 19:23:16 oerjan: why didn't my grep work 19:23:19 oh 19:23:19 i like this discussion 19:23:27 Phantom_Hoover: um you should _really_ take a look at bin/? before doing that 19:23:34 Phantom_Hoover doesn't care 19:23:40 actually that will be pointless regardless of the argument order. 19:23:42 \ 19:23:50 phantom hoover should be a honey badger. 19:24:20 Phantom_Hoover is just trying to be annoying as far as i can tell :( 19:24:48 Phantom_Hoover: it was changed so that things don't blow up completely when someone tries to make a list of all the wisdom entries. 19:25:51 wtf is going on 19:26:23 No, I do not believe that is going on. 19:26:54 Wow, I am very very glad I didn't run out of cash last weekend 19:27:15 Otherwise I'd be stuck in Sunderland with only an out of date debit card 19:27:20 ha ha ThatOtherPerson 19:27:29 new heights of comedy have been reached thanks to you 19:27:51 i like monoidal comedy 19:27:56 can we have more of that in here 19:28:30 oerjan, who ruined wisdom/ngevd, and why 19:29:01 Phantom_Hoover: shachaf just deleted it. otherwise, i just said above. 19:29:26 oerjan: yes well did you see what it said 19:29:33 `run echo Boo! >wisdom/ngevd 19:29:37 No output. 19:29:41 `? ngevd 19:29:43 w:也8U]Y۝[.S5nO&dGv>8,.s[=BORn%*a"4Hcjmtg! qpoC/J:!~(gJCcU \ 949}yr'C.2O9頓z;H\_։X!3\@H^i*Xv]g 19:29:48 whoa dude 19:29:51 `paste bin/? 19:29:51 也 19:29:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%3F 19:30:06 `rm wisdom/ngevd 19:30:09 No output. 19:30:12 ohhhh 19:30:16 you specialcased it 19:30:18 INELEGANT 19:30:30 imo "dot dot dot" 19:30:57 "as they say" 19:32:04 :? 19:32:33 `learn ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 19:32:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:32:37 I knew that. 19:33:30 `? Phantom_Hoover 19:33:31 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist. 19:33:46 Phantom_Hoover: you worship hats? 19:34:21 no 19:34:21 it's hat-heist, not h+atheist 19:34:43 You steal hats? 19:36:55 He does not respond, thus proving his guilt. 19:38:43 But... but... no True Scotsman steals hats! 19:38:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:39:37 -!- Bike has joined. 19:39:47 IT IS A LIE 19:45:41 the cake? 19:46:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:46:51 ThatOtherPerson, well, I never successfully stole it. 19:47:55 -!- Bike has joined. 19:51:56 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:54:17 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:54:43 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 19:58:25 I love my job. I make phone rings. 19:59:38 wats a phone ring 20:01:37 arenas for ritualized combat between phones. what's a ceremony? 20:03:52 No, what is a word. 20:04:36 argh... if I can't subtly try to start a covert round of govende... 20:04:42 oh well. 20:04:44 ~duck word 20:04:45 word definition: something that is said. 20:05:35 Any of you guys play board game online? 20:05:39 -!- carado has joined. 20:05:53 i watch board games online 20:06:01 I play scrabble online sometimes. 20:06:03 http://www.boardgame-online.com/g/game.php?g=cYbq&k=qJX 20:06:37 the heck 20:06:48 It's an online boardgame 20:06:52 Called boardgame online 20:07:20 isotropic is dead. now there's only that blasphemous infamy left to play dominion online. 20:09:14 "I'm a guy! I have a penis." ........ 20:09:40 hi nooodl 20:09:43 hi 20:09:51 I'm a guy! I have two penises 20:10:02 "I'm not sure what I am." omg this is so blatantly transphobic jesus 20:10:44 seriously is this some kind of dating service game 20:11:25 im confused 20:11:27 not sure should be two other choices " I have both" " I have neither" 20:11:29 is this about that board game online 20:11:47 yes 20:11:48 atriq: what is that and what does it have to do with Homestuck 20:11:50 oh god what is this even saying help i am not good with computers 20:12:12 "I'm a girl! I have boobies." um 20:12:34 i have seven pet boobies. they fly around for me 20:12:45 ThatOtherPerson, it's an online board game 20:12:55 A lot of people playing this instance read Homestuck 20:13:03 is it about sex 20:13:05 because 20:13:05 uh 20:13:09 A little 20:13:12 :> 20:13:14 :/ 20:13:15 why 20:13:15 * Fiora o_O what is going on 20:13:27 im learning about homestuck 20:13:28 * ThatOtherPerson has no clue 20:13:32 monqy: flee 20:13:35 It's a really weird online board game 20:13:36 what does this have to do with homestuck? @_@ 20:13:42 flee from it like the plague 20:13:57 fiora has like nine penises, all in hermeneutic jars for later study 20:14:13 Fiora: I clicked all the buttons and was taken to some chat thingy where people were talking about Homestuck characters 20:14:15 but science needs them now 20:14:16 what ;-; 20:14:20 hm that should be "hermetic" shouldn't it 20:14:22 I am at least as confused as you 20:14:24 if not more 20:14:33 -!- Fiora has left ("I don't understand"). 20:14:38 rip 20:14:39 :/ 20:14:45 HOW COULD YOU PEOPLE 20:15:56 damn it 20:16:11 * boily unleashes the eldritch (and cyclopean and grotesque) squiddly powers of metasepia towards bike 20:16:12 What is this it you are referring to? 20:16:45 “GO FORTH, MY MINION, AND OBLITERATE THAT HEATHEN FROM THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH, ESPECIALLY HEXHAM!” 20:19:49 Gregor: how come? coconut usually tastes pretty good. <-- this is a public announcement to remind you that Gregor doesn't have a sense of taste hth 20:20:23 oerjan: Oh come on, we're talking about SODA here. 20:22:43 hm that should be "hermetic" shouldn't it <-- darn i was so wondering what a hermeneutic jar is 20:22:54 ~duck hermeneutics 20:22:55 Hermeneutics, broadly, is the art of text interpretation. 20:23:30 oerjan: probably like the jar the nag hammadi library was found in. 20:23:32 .,. 20:24:32 i hope Fiora will come back sometime 20:24:40 @tell Fiora Have you found understanding in your absence? 20:24:47 ... 20:24:53 I don't know how to use that bot 20:25:12 ThatOtherPerson: it helps if it's actually present 20:25:17 ah 20:25:19 I see 20:25:25 shachaf: WHAT DID YOU DO TO LAMBDABOT 20:25:40 someone found a way to kill lambdabot? 20:25:55 "again?" 20:26:10 @quambdabot 20:26:12 help 20:26:14 boily: i suspect it's not particularly hard if someone actually tried 20:26:30 well, my is always there to be readily killed. 20:26:42 -!- ThatOtherPerson has changed nick to my. 20:26:47 kill me 20:26:47 (granted, I have full access to a good C-c aimed at it...) 20:26:58 ~eval unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce + 2 20:27:00 Error (1): 20:27:12 * boily grabs metasepia from Bike and redirects its fury towards my 20:27:20 what 20:27:23 boily: that's a _little_ concise for an error message 20:27:35 I know. sometimes it works, most often not. 20:27:59 be subjugated in front of its zen-like approach to error handling! 20:28:05 boily: you might join lines, or something 20:28:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:28:48 ~eval unsafeCoerce False ++ "hm..." 20:28:49 Error (1): Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce' 20:28:57 that _might_ explain it. 20:29:34 lucky you! you got a full error message! 20:29:34 sigh 20:29:40 ~eval Unsafe.Coerce 20:29:41 Error (1): Not in scope: data constructor `Unsafe.Coerce' 20:29:45 kmc: hi 20:29:48 ~eval import Unsafe.Coerce 20:29:49 Error (1): :1:1: parse error on input `import' 20:29:52 sux 20:29:56 yep! 20:30:05 kmc: she's just afk right now 20:30:58 ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval 20:30:59 Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~eval 20:31:18 ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval 20:31:19 Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~eval 20:31:27 ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval 20:31:27 Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: 20:31:33 -!- Fiora has joined. 20:31:34 >:D 20:31:40 Fiora: hey! 20:31:52 errors and patterns and syntax, oh my! 20:32:24 why is unsafeCoerce in haskell 20:32:34 it's not 20:32:36 wb Fiora 20:32:38 Fiora: Have you been enlightened by the glorious brightness of Oz yet? 20:32:48 ZARDOZ? 20:32:53 s/Oz/understanding 20:32:54 nooodl: it's an implementationy extensiony thing. 20:33:01 oh 20:33:03 why is it in ghc 20:33:11 for hax 20:33:13 Everything's in ghc. 20:33:50 oz?? 20:33:50 nooodl: well where else would you put it 20:33:57 nooodl: so you can convert between things that have the same type/same internal representation but the type system is not powerful enough to prove it 20:34:00 there is a standard unsafeLocalState though 20:34:02 a canonical use case (and one the GHC docs actually guarantee is safe) is converting between a newtype and underlying type 20:34:21 also converting from a type to Any and back to the same type 20:34:27 which is used in the implementation of Data.Dynamic 20:34:47 but mostly it gets used for weird hax to make libraries faster by knowing way too much about GHC internals 20:34:54 Presumably you could also implement Data.Dynamic with an existential Typeable value? 20:35:01 yes 20:35:09 2slow 20:35:14 oerjan's line sounds more interesting! 20:35:26 -!- variable has joined. 20:35:26 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 20:35:26 -!- variable has joined. 20:35:31 oerjan's line and kmc's lines are in fact..... the same 20:35:46 note that unsafeCoerce :: New -> Old may be safe but unsafeCoerce :: f New -> f Old isn't :'( 20:35:53 there exist a natural transformation between oerjan and kmc. 20:35:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:35:58 s/t\b/ts/ 20:36:52 it's cute when people put effort in their s/// regexes 20:37:40 s/effort/logic and sanity/ 20:37:44 :D 20:39:45 lambdabot is back in #haskell but not in #esoteric... what a jerkbot 20:39:57 eek 20:40:22 ~echo ~echo ~echo 20:40:22 ~echo ~echo 20:40:49 nooodl: maybe it got reset a couple years again 20:42:10 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:42:44 shachaf: you realise lambdabot just takes ages to join every channel right 20:43:10 did you mean "nooodl: " 20:43:11 elliott: hey i trusted oerjan 20:43:16 by oerjan i mean nooodl 20:43:48 jerkbot 5000 20:44:07 also, how many channels is lambdabot in? 20:44:14 68 20:44:14 hth 20:44:33 @list 20:44:33 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 20:44:45 -!- augur has joined. 20:44:52 wow @unlambda 20:44:55 @channels 20:44:56 Unknown command, try @list 20:44:57 @list-channels 20:44:57 Unknown command, try @list 20:45:00 @where are you 20:45:00 I know nothing about are. 20:45:02 @listchans 20:45:03 @channel-list 20:45:03 ##crypto ##freebsd ##logic ##proggit ##unavailable ##villagegreen #agda #codez #darcs #diagrams #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs # 20:45:03 haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-game #haskell-in-depth #haskell-lens #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell. 20:45:03 dut #haskell.es #haskell.se #haskell.tw #learnanycomputerlanguage #ledger #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix #unicycling #xmonad #yi 20:45:03 weird# 20:45:03 Unknown command, try @list 20:45:05 yes that one. 20:45:07 Whoa 20:45:15 haskell-freebsd 20:45:16 weird# 20:45:18 that command list is outdates 20:45:19 gentoo-haskell 20:45:21 what is this 20:45:21 s/.$/d/ 20:45:31 lambdabot: what are your real commands 20:45:34 lambdabot: ? 20:45:34 Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add 20:45:35 djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune 20:45:35 fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma 20:45:35 karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline 20:45:35 oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc 20:45:36 read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc 20:45:38 topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow 20:45:40 scannedinavian 20:45:45 shcahf.... 20:45:46 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 20:45:47 "\"" 20:46:37 uhm, is there only a single global lambdabot instance running, or are they a channel-wise hive conglomerate? 20:46:47 monqy: calling me shcahf is like calling elliott... elitot 20:47:05 eliot 20:47:05 @rot13 test 20:47:06 Unknown command, try @list 20:48:17 lambdabot: You are standing in a great ballroom. It has been lavishly decorated. You now turn into a giant banana split. 20:48:25 -!- my has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 20:48:39 boily: there can only be one "lambdabot" per network 20:48:54 olsner: well once upon a time there was lambdabot2 20:49:09 that's not lambdabot, that's lambdabot2 20:49:20 theres also thutubot! 20:49:52 olsner: hey! lambdabot2 is lambdabot too! 20:50:24 :☺) 20:50:38 monqy: were you raised in a bus? 20:50:38 That may be true, but there's not enough lambdabot to go around. 20:50:49 shachaf: is that what elliott told you 20:50:58 maybe 20:51:03 what elliott told me is between elliott and me 20:51:05 and the bus 20:52:19 ~eval let f c = chr . (if c >= 'a' && c < 'n' then (+13) else (if c >= 'n' && c <= 'z' then (+(-13)) else id)) . ord $ c in map f "yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw" 20:52:20 "luwhyjjvrsmbwpoklooehjrrwj" 20:52:44 I understand. 20:53:55 @djinn-names 20:53:55 Either Left Right Maybe Nothing Just Bool False True Void Not Void Monad Eq Bool 20:54:02 whoa good command 20:54:14 void not viod 20:54:15 void 20:54:17 like djinn-env but it doesn't spam the channel 20:54:18 is there a unicode char for a schoolbus? 20:54:36 1F68C BUS [] 20:54:36 1F68D ONCOMING BUS [] 20:56:28 1F3EB SCHOOL [] 20:56:35 hey elliott there's a unicode codepoint for you 20:57:03 is there a unicode codepoint for me 20:57:15 no 20:57:18 :( 20:57:19 there's one for MONKEY 20:57:25 thats not me 20:57:25 1F412 MONKEY [] 20:57:29 COMBINING FRIENDSHIP MONQY ABOVE [] 20:57:32 1F435 MONKEY FACE [] is that you 20:57:42 1F648 SEE-NO-EVIL MONKEY [] 20:57:42 1F649 HEAR-NO-EVIL MONKEY [] 20:57:43 1F64A SPEAK-NO-EVIL MONKEY [] 20:58:08 those are pretty good 20:58:15 dwarf fortress would make awesome use of that 20:58:25 ... 20:58:26 hey Bike 20:58:29 033C COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW [̼] 20:58:33 yes 20:58:39 COMBINING BUS ABOVE 20:58:50 you know shachaf means seagull right Bike 20:59:01 oh that's real huh 20:59:01 yes 20:59:11 i feel honoured 20:59:19 maybe even honouured 20:59:19 in what language? 20:59:27 hebrew 20:59:29 a bike, a seagull and a bus walk into an above... 21:01:56 ad then nooga kicks in 21:02:16 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:02:41 1F630 FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND COLD SWEAT [] 21:02:42 1F631 FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR [] 21:02:52 wow unicode is great 21:02:54 thanks unicode 21:03:04 yes 21:03:15 i wish i had fonts that could actually render anything on the astral plane 21:03:18 1F70A ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR VINEGAR [] 21:03:36 um there's no such plane as "the astral plane" 21:03:46 well on any astral plane 21:03:54 Unicode Character 'CAT FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY' (U+1F639) 21:03:57 @ask zzo38 are you into alchemy 21:03:58 Consider it noted. 21:04:13 1F6AF DO NOT LITTER SYMBOL [] 21:04:15 1F6AE PUT LITTER IN ITS PLACE SYMBOL [] 21:04:35 1F625 DISAPPOINTED BUT RELIEVED FACE [] 21:04:46 It tells a story. 21:04:59 1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND [] 21:05:00 1F4C9 CHART WITH DOWNWARDS TREND [] 21:05:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:05:02 okay i just fell over laughing thanks fizzie 21:05:06 1F4B9 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND AND YEN SIGN [] 21:05:21 Those are the only three CHARTs. 21:05:41 how nippocentric 21:07:11 how did deadfish replace Emmental on the front page <-- elliott edit the template hth 21:07:16 *edited 21:07:17 U+1F47D EXTRATERRESTRIAL ALIEN U+1F47E ALIEN MONSTER I'm tempted to go into the character charts to see the example renderings of these. It sounds like there might be quite a lot of variation. 21:07:25 (I only have a UnicodeData.txt to read.) 21:08:18 fizzie: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47d/index.htm , http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47e/index.htm 21:08:26 1F4D3 NOTEBOOK [] 21:08:26 1F4D4 NOTEBOOK WITH DECORATIVE COVER [] 21:08:32 the decision to render unicode character names in all uppercase was the greatest of the human race 21:08:53 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:09:02 I like the alien monster. It's very monstrous. 21:09:08 Though it looks kinda sad. 21:09:12 isn't that just an octopus or something 21:09:24 it seems I have a font somewhere that can render the alien face. 21:10:46 U+1F51E NO ONE UNDER EIGHTEEN SYMBOL I parsed this as "(no one) under (eighteen symbol)" and not "(no one under eighteen) symbol". 21:11:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 21:11:08 fizzie, what does that symbol look like? 21:11:28 An 18 in a circle with a \ through it. 21:11:40 I don't know how it signifies the "under" part. 21:11:40 what about the alien stuff? 21:11:45 Isn't that "no one presently 18"? 21:11:49 Well, Gregor provided links. 21:12:07 heh 21:12:13 U+1F4B8: MONEY WITH WINGS 21:12:18 oh here's my unicode glyph 21:12:18 shachaf: You'd think so, yes. Perhaps it means "under 18" because the \ is under the 18, not on top. 21:12:18 why the hell did they put this stuff in 21:12:20 seriously? 21:12:27 because of 21:12:28 nooodl, example rendering? 21:12:35 the haskell (MONEY WITH WINGS) operator 21:12:38 http://www.charbase.com/images/glyph/128184 21:13:00 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4b8/money_with_wings.png 21:13:00 oh I read it as "monkey with wings" 21:13:01 right 21:13:09 i like money more 21:14:11 @let 💸 x y = "enterprise joke" 21:14:12 Plugin `eval' failed with: Enum.toEnum{Word8}: tag (128184) is outside of bounds (0,255) 21:14:17 monstrous. 21:14:49 In 1F60B FACE SAVOURING DELICIOUS FOOD I don't really see any food being swallowed in the example render -- that's http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f60b/face_savouring_delicious_food.png 21:15:16 1F612 UNAMUSED FACE [] 21:15:36 -!- augur has joined. 21:16:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:16:37 Truly, Miscellaneous Symbols And Pictographs + Emoticons together has the bests. 21:16:42 -!- augur has joined. 21:17:36 The rest is just SERIOUS BUSINESS stuff like MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC CAPITAL THETA SYMBOL or MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-3 or CUNEIFORM SIGN KASKAL OVER KASKAL LAGAB TIMES U OVER LAGAB TIMES U or so on. 21:18:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:18:06 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:18:39 once again boily chickens out 21:20:06 The cuneiform signs make me worry I'm seeing double. 21:20:17 U+1203D CUNEIFORM SIGN ASH OVER ASH OVER ASH CROSSING ASH OVER ASH OVER ASH. 21:20:29 Sexy. 21:20:39 hey that's pretty good 21:21:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:22:28 It's no ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM but it's still a pretty long name. 21:24:13 ouch 21:25:45 it's no CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY either 21:25:58 is that a yes or a yeesh <-- it's a yesh and you should read mutts some time. 21:26:52 fizzie: i guess the sumerians liked repeating things until they stuck 21:33:08 unfortunately the only reference anyone can fucking bother with is 42 soooooooooooooooo <-- Ah. This is obviously some strange usage of the word "only" that I hadn't previously been aware of. 21:33:36 yes 21:34:34 hey it's monqy party time 21:34:37 hi monqy 21:34:39 its the usage of "only" that means "it's the one that sticks out like a sore thumb except it's not just a sore thumb it's mutilated and smells bad and makes me want to vomit even though it was once a good thumb it had good origins and it makes me sad that it's not a good thumb anymore" 21:34:44 um 21:34:46 hi shachaf 21:35:14 good party 21:36:56 monqy: i think u missed oerjan joke 21:37:54 i dont remember h2g2 well enough to pick up most ref.s but i had a vague feeling it might be one just because tyhatd be a dang obvious joke 21:37:57 if thats what youre getting at 21:38:00 idk if it is one tho 21:38:24 have you not noticed all of oerjan's jokes are obvious & that's why they're great 21:38:24 h²g² 21:38:33 oerjan is the best 21:38:39 -!- augur has joined. 21:38:43 i wish everyone was like oerjan 21:38:44 oerjan++ 21:38:49 i'll rely on fizzie's encyclopedic knowledge of h2g2's text to supply The Originalle 21:39:07 elliott: help i'm failing to google any references in what monqy said about sore thumbs 21:39:26 i'm sure there must be some 21:39:32 oerjan: it's ok you'll feel better over time 21:39:44 i didnt use a reference to my knowledge it was 1000% original 21:40:03 monqy: wow you should write books 21:40:04 wow 21:40:10 that's a lot of originality 21:41:12 11:13 monqy: um there's also almost but not entirely unlike X 21:41:23 elliott you dropped a word 21:41:25 don't do that 21:41:34 stuff like that i can remember. 21:41:36 1000% original books 21:41:44 have you not noticed all of oerjan's jokes are obvious & that's why they're great <-- help i'm not sure whether i should be proud or insulted 21:42:09 oh so that is why everyone hates my jokes. They are too subtle? 21:42:21 Vorpal: wait you tell jokes? 21:42:30 Vorpal: we'd hate them if we noticed them, maybe? 21:42:34 waaay to subtle 21:42:46 it helps if they're funny, also 21:42:56 elliott: ime it doesn't matter really 21:42:58 though oerjan gets by fine without that 21:43:12 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 21:43:13 elliott, hey, I find him funny at times. 21:43:20 oh dear. 21:43:24 at times? 21:43:25 oerjan's jokes may be worse than I feared then 21:43:25 I'M PRETTY SURE THAT CROSSED OVER TO INSULT 21:43:47 monqy, well, nobody can be spot on EVERY time. 21:43:56 monqy, but perhaps I should say most of the time 21:44:08 makes sense 21:45:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:45:39 Speaking of humor, why is it (on a evolutionary level) that humor exists? 21:46:12 Also, why is watching physics engines in games spaz out so funny? 21:46:55 elliott, And speaking of games, I assume you have seen the kickstarter to the Planescape: Torment sequel? 21:47:08 nope 21:47:19 elliott, if you liked Ps:T: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera 21:47:30 many of the same guys behind it 21:47:58 just 50 hours to go so.. 21:48:19 I haven't even played Planescape 21:48:23 oh okay 21:48:29 elliott, why not? 21:48:33 it is a great game 21:48:58 elliott, tell me at least you played Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale? 21:50:49 nope 21:50:55 oh dear 21:51:18 elliott, well take a look at the kickstarter to see if you want to back it I guess then 21:51:21 fsvo "great game" 21:51:35 the gameplay is, by all accounts, a complete bore 21:51:39 Phantom_Hoover, well okay, the combat is bad 21:51:45 Phantom_Hoover, the story however is excellent 21:52:20 also I should probably call the new kickstarter a spiritual successor rather than a sequel 21:52:56 kickstarter is the cornerstone of the spiritual successor industry, after all 21:53:04 true words 21:53:43 there is also that other game, Project Eternity (by Obsidian, the company that made Fallout New Vegas), which is also a spiritual successor to Ps:T 21:53:48 looks interesting too 21:54:12 and of course obsidian have a proven track record of delivering on their promises 21:54:20 nope 21:54:27 I expect that game to be buggy :P 21:55:15 obsidian is kind of legendary for being forced by publishers to release games before they're ready :/ 21:55:32 Phantom_Hoover, but I can think of several good games that Obsidian made, they just required post-launch patching. The actual game (story & game play) is usually good though. Just buggy on launch. 21:55:34 "forced" 21:55:49 um, yeah, forced, the publisher conrols the release date 21:56:01 the story of new vegas is pretty amazing. bethesda told them not to do QA, because bethesda would be in charge of QA. and then they didn't do QA 21:56:02 I enjoyed Fallout New Vegas a hell of a lot more than Fallout 3 21:56:07 though neither was a bad game 21:56:40 new vegas was pretty wonderful. that and KOTOR 2 are the things I think of when I think of obsidian 21:56:41 Fallout New Vegas just had a massively more interesting setting & story. Much more interesting missions. More interesting characters. 21:56:43 Fiora, my understanding is that obsidian picked a business model where they were contracted to make a game for a set fee 21:57:05 Phantom_Hoover: the publisher has a lot more control beyond just the price they pay, though 21:57:07 and then acted completely obliviously to this by totally ignoring their deadlines 21:57:32 I mean New Vegas wasn't just rough around the edges; the entire save system was fundamentally broken. 21:57:39 ? saving worked okay here 21:58:12 Fiora.... 21:58:35 * Fiora ? 21:58:36 (Did you play it at release? And anyway that's immaterial, because for a lot of people it definitely was.) 21:58:43 um, yeah, I played it at release 21:59:02 it was a little buggy but it's not like it was skyrim-buggy 21:59:45 in short, I expect Project Eternity to be awesome but buggy on launch. Torment: Tides of Numenera is however a bit more unsafe card. It could be good. I would guess that a game will come out of that though, since their previous kickstarter (Wasteland 2) is well along it's development. They said that they are working on two games at a time, so that the pre-production team has something to do when the pre 21:59:46 vious game is in production. 21:59:55 which sounds reasonable to me 21:59:57 I guess I'm just extremely suspicious of the narrative that Obsidian's games are all ruined by publishers. 22:00:23 I mean they've made what, six games with as many publishers? And they've all been unfinished messes? 22:00:34 Phantom_Hoover, same here. I did not play Vegas on release, and I did enjoy it a lot when I did play it, which was probably a year or so after release. 22:00:43 I have the game of the year edition of Vegas. 22:01:10 I loved the shit out of NV, though there were still things Bethesda do better. 22:01:14 Phantom_Hoover: well, publishers being at fault doesn't mean obsidian isn't at fault in any respect, that's not really what I meant, sorry >_< 22:01:39 the best example of a developer totally botching a contract like that though has to be that new Aliens game though :P 22:01:59 Phantom_Hoover, oh? Like what? 22:02:38 Phantom_Hoover, I really can't think of anything I liked more in Fallout 3 than Fallout NV 22:02:41 Vorpal, geographical design, most obviously. 22:02:53 NV is all box canyons, cliffs and invisible walls. 22:03:08 Bethesda are actually really good at making environments that are fun to just roam around in. 22:03:16 hm, not so much invisible walls that I remember, except for the edges of the map obviously 22:03:33 Oh jesus christ, you missed those? I had to mod them out, they drove me insane. 22:03:50 Phantom_Hoover, I did play with unofficial patches and so on of course 22:04:00 They were at the top of basically every geographical barrier. 22:04:42 Phantom_Hoover, hm, I guess I just tried to go around, since climbing over would be wasteful of resources if you role play the game. :P 22:05:19 after all, if you role play it, or play it on hard enough difficulty, you have to deal with water shortage. 22:05:50 hm was KOTOR 2 buggy on release? I never played the game. 22:06:03 it was somewhat buggy but there were also like, huge sections of the game uncompleted 22:06:07 oh 22:06:12 what about NWN2? 22:06:12 with assets there but that got diked out in the final release 22:06:18 I think years later it was completed by fans with an unofficial patch 22:07:59 hm 22:12:03 I got the feeling that Project Eternity was more a spiritual successor to BG (or Infinity Engine games in general) than specifically PS:T. 22:12:52 They also just got the stretch goal of getting the original PS:T lead designer in their team at the Torment/Numenera kickstarter. 22:14:16 And inXile also recently kickstarted Wasteland 2, which could be seen as a kind of a Fallout thing, indirectly. 22:14:41 (I'm quite high up in the backscroll, sorry for potentially repeating things.) 22:15:24 hello fizzie 22:15:30 * oerjan waves 22:15:38 we've been waiting for you fizzie 22:15:39 sit down 22:15:40 * Fiora wavies? 22:15:52 KOTOR II's lead designer is also working for the new Torment. 22:16:12 I got the feeling that Project Eternity was more a spiritual successor to BG (or Infinity Engine games in general) than specifically PS:T. <-- well yes, true 22:16:28 (I mean, it's the same guy.) 22:17:08 I do look forward to both Project Eternity and the new Torment. 22:18:32 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:18:34 The new Torment is so far the only thing I've kicked in the shin^Wstart; other than that I've managed to not get involved with that kind of things. 22:20:02 I approve of the general idea of Kickstarter but looking too closely makes me annoyed. 22:20:22 Especially after they gave all that money to David "massive jaw" Braben. 22:21:26 And they gave all that other money to Peter Molyneux! People are such sheep. 22:22:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:23:09 Phantom_Hoover, what was it that Molyneux kickstarted? Trying to remember 22:23:23 Not "Curiosity" I hope? 22:23:38 because that was an utter clusterfuck 22:23:44 A pocketful of mumbles, I believe. 22:23:54 how did that curiosity thing end 22:24:13 https://twitter.com/PeterMolydeux 22:24:41 "There is actually nothing in the middle of the cube. It just keeps going on forever #April Fools" hope that answers your question 22:25:04 heh 22:25:24 Bike, was his statement a joke or the game a joke though 22:25:31 that could be interpreted either way 22:25:37 That's Molydeux. 22:25:42 «Sheffield first revealed Gunhouse, a title about a “house made of guns” that has to “defend some orphans from Alien Invaders.”» 22:25:43 oh right 22:25:49 Phantom_Hoover, thanks, didn't even notice 22:26:00 Read the rest of the account's tweet's, they're `the best' 22:26:14 "@PeterMolyneux's tweets are protected. 22:26:15 Only confirmed followers have access to @PeterMolyneux's Tweets and complete profile. Click the "Follow" button to send a follow request. 22:26:15 " 22:26:15 hm 22:26:16 ok but seriously did anyone get to the bottom 22:26:23 is that the real guy? I guess not 22:26:47 ah no 22:27:00 MolyDeux is a parody account 22:27:02 It is https://twitter.com/pmolyneux 22:27:02 elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Curiosity_-_What%27s_Inside_the_Cube%3F_layers 22:27:09 @ask atriq Trivia: I have a cousin who is just like me, except Australian and somehow less awesome. <-- they live in one of the other two Hexhams, right? 22:27:10 Consider it noted. 22:27:11 it started by tweeting a bunch of incredibly silly (molyneux-esque?) game ideas 22:27:22 which eventualy started an actual game jam in which people spend a few days actually making some of the silliest ideas 22:27:43 My favourite was the driving game where you play as the road. 22:27:45 wow this cannot possibly be notable. 22:27:55 http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/167882/Postmortem_What_Would_Molydeux__a_global_game_jam_.php 22:28:49 A while ago I watched a LPy thing of Barkley's Shut Up And Jam: Gaiden, and it was really bizarre. 22:28:50 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:28:50 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 22:28:50 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:29:11 elliott, it is however a LIST. Wikipedia loves LISTS and TABLES. 22:29:24 Also why am I talking like POKEMON games? 22:30:29 "5 minute game where you play an asteroid that is headed towards Earth. Everyone hates you. All you can do is talk, what would you say?" 22:30:56 Vorpal: i think you mean POKéMON 22:31:02 "A game where you can only progress during 3 random minutes every day. It's up to social media to help people play at the right time" 22:31:21 nooodl_, oh right 22:31:28 "I want to make a ps4 game that is just a room with locked door that can only be opened if 1 million users are watching you at the same time" XD 22:31:29 "It's up to social media" seems topicable 22:31:37 ONLY YOU CAN SAVE THE DAY, SOCIAL MEDIA! 22:32:01 "Imagine if you could control an enemy on the console game your child is playing without them knowing via a smartphone?" remains the best 22:32:30 hehe 22:32:43 wow that's giving me great ideas 22:33:17 games that pretend to be single-player, but parts of the game are being filled in by someone else... you could really screw with players' minds 22:33:41 nooodl_, you mean like Journey, but covert? 22:34:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_(2012_video_game) this? 22:34:53 what if the game's difficulty was linked to how many people were dying from wars? players would have to lobby their governments to make the killing stop if they wanted to get past that jump -- look i'm molydeux 22:34:54 yes 22:35:07 "Action game where every time you die you spawn in the same area but 10 seconds in the past. You need to rescue yourself to continue." this... this is aactually amazing 22:35:33 nooodl_, it is one of those games where the critics start wondering aloud about the line between games and art. Like with Shadow of the Colossus. 22:36:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: It's up to social media | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 22:36:38 Fiora, amazing idea, but I'm not sure how well it would actually work 22:37:25 oh wow. there's... actually a game in development doing that 22:37:34 http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/03/23/super-time-force-makes-you-cooperate-with-yourself.aspx 22:39:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:47 oerjan: is #esoteric a social media? 22:40:47 Vorpal: I think you that you are talking like HOMESTUCK, which is the MOST GLORIOUS WEBCOMIC 22:41:16 coppro, I was thinking of the Pokemon games though 22:42:00 http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/03/23/super-time-force-makes-you-cooperate-with-yourself.aspx <-- that is one weird trailer at the bottom of the page 22:42:02 what the hell 22:42:07 hey fizzie 22:42:21 what happens if you plot number of layers of curiosity uncovered against time 22:43:05 Fiora: the game trailer promises it will cause the player to physically harm themselves. that's a good game 22:43:07 o_O 22:43:26 Phantom_Hoover, well, I guess we would see either how large each layer is, or how many people play it. We couldn't predict how long it would take though, since we don't know the number of layers afaik 22:44:13 did anyone else play antichamber btw 22:44:27 and by 'anyone' i mean 'anyone who isn't Vorpal' 22:44:31 antichamber!!!! <3 22:44:45 it is an awesome game indeed 22:44:55 very different than other games I played 22:45:34 it's an impressive feat of abusing a game engine 22:45:43 that too yes 22:45:50 I just loved how it was like... an open world puzzle game 22:45:52 Oh, is it an old engine? 22:45:54 Phantom_Hoover, I really liked that fake count down timer. 22:45:56 and there were so many ways to solve each problem 22:46:12 Bike, it's UE3 22:46:14 Bike, Unreal 3 iirc, but err, there is non-euclidean geometry 22:46:18 and all the time, when solving a problem, there was that feeling of "oh wow this is totally cheating there's no way I'm supposed to do it this way" 22:46:21 Nice. 22:46:21 no there isn't!!! 22:46:24 Real non-eucl- oh. 22:46:25 but you know they probably intended for you to be able to do it that way 22:46:30 there's, like, globally noneuclidean features 22:46:33 Phantom_Hoover, well not on screen at any point 22:46:55 but yes, there are stuff you can walk around for more than 360 degrees without getting back to the same place 22:46:57 Fiora: hypothesis: the developers didn't actually put in any solutions for any puzzle, they just assumed you'd abuse the engine into getting through 22:46:57 the actual geometry is everywhere euclidean 22:46:59 it was such a wonderful explorey thing 22:47:00 that sort of stuff 22:47:14 Bike: it was't like, engine abuse, just solutions that felt really hacky 22:47:19 Fiora, I did end up having to look up solutions in a couple of places, which really annoyed me. 22:47:27 ... yeah, I did too, in a couple :< 22:47:34 and all the time, when solving a problem, there was that feeling of "oh wow this is totally cheating there's no way I'm supposed to do it this way" <-- not all the time, but yes, sometimes definitely 22:47:37 it felt doubly worse when they were /so obvious/ in retrospect -_- 22:47:52 like the way to get across that gap labelled "WTF?" 22:47:58 Phantom_Hoover, had to look up a solution in one place, forgot what it was now. 22:48:04 olsner: of course not, media is plural 22:48:07 I puzzled over it for ages and the solution was just so dead simple 22:48:09 I think they could've made it clearer that rectangles would fill themselves in. 22:48:29 I didn't know at the start of the game that I'd get another cube gun -_- 22:48:36 so I got 'stuck' on the things that needed the green cube gun 22:48:39 man it really does look like a shinier Mondo Medicals 22:48:45 Fiora, which one was the WTF one. I played the game like a couple of days after release, so I forgot what puzzle went where 22:48:48 oerjan: social medium then, sounds about right for #esoteric 22:48:57 Vorpal: it was a red gap with the text "WTF?" in it, in red cubes 22:48:59 Vorpal, the one with a big floating "WTF" in it 22:49:07 and it had that gas that stopped you from placing cubes there 22:49:16 Phantom_Hoover, was it the one where you couldn't place blocks? Or the one where the text was blocks? 22:49:22 there were like both kinds of gaps 22:49:28 Both. 22:49:29 and you couldn't do abusiveness like moving blocks in from outside or moving the text 22:49:33 so it 'seemed' like there was no way across 22:49:45 spoiler:the solution is not to go across at all 22:49:54 Phantom_Hoover, in one place I remember placing blocks below the area I couldn't place blocks and doing a "cheating-feeling" solution to get across 22:50:04 Fiora, oh right, that gap 22:50:06 true 22:50:10 I think that was it XD 22:50:30 -!- copumpkin has quit. 22:50:33 I was hoping that wold just be more spaces 22:50:34 *would 22:50:50 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:50:53 elliott, in Antichamber? 22:51:03 Fiora, I never quite figured out how to properly use the red gun. 22:51:14 Didn't always act like I wanted 22:51:21 I think it's like, you just sort of use it to pull the blocks around? 22:51:23 it was kind of tricky though 22:51:32 it took a lot of effort to finagle it into doing what I wanted 22:51:33 Or push them out 22:51:46 it was the pushing out that was the major issue 22:51:56 To push is enough! 22:51:57 Vorpal: in Fiora's line 22:51:58 one thing I learned quickly was you can't always move the blocks in any direction, since you can only move them towards a spot you can point the gun at 22:52:01 elliott, oh okay 22:52:07 elliott, did you play the game in question? 22:52:18 Fiora, well yes obviously 22:52:28 so like, if you're pointing to a block on the floor, you can't use the gun to lift the block up unless there's a wall you can point at 22:52:41 Vorpal: nope 22:52:44 it was kind of nonintuitive at least I felt but it was fun 22:53:24 Fiora, also I had watched TotalBiscuit's video on youtube before buying the game, so I did know a bit of what to expect at the start. In hindsight the game would have been more enjoyable without that, but I never buy a game without reading reviews or watching initial impressions, so... 22:53:32 ah 22:53:34 I went into it totally blind 22:53:37 I think the little red line made that easy enough to grasp. 22:53:38 (obviously, kickstarters are an exception to this) 22:53:50 I think I pretty much went just off the rockpapershotgun review >.> 22:54:03 * Bike loads up an LP 22:54:03 Also TB's footage only showed the first 5 or 6 rooms. 22:54:11 lovin' the inspirational messages all over the place 22:54:16 Fiora, really his video was from PaX the previous year, and didn't cover it all the way up to the first gun even. 22:54:29 Fiora, it did help with the red/blue stairs though 22:54:36 oh that part XD 22:54:44 I got that one pretty quickly, it made me laugh 22:54:50 I loved it when the game just trolled me like that 22:55:02 Phantom_Hoover, indeed, but it helped me understand the mindset intended for the game 22:55:02 like the place where you kept going in circles and everything was repeating itself 22:55:07 but if you went like around 5 times 22:55:13 ... it led to the exit anyways 22:55:23 Fiora, that spiraled inwards though 22:55:38 Slowly enough that you can't notice at first, though. 22:55:38 ?? I guess I didn't notice that 22:55:38 I guess I didn't notice that 22:55:39 or do you mean the area with green coloured areas? 22:55:56 ummm there was that one too, but I meant the black and white slowly turning corridor 22:56:05 that went in a circle 22:56:06 Fiora, I assumed you meant the area with <> sign 22:56:10 ... yup! 22:56:11 that one 22:56:11 It'd be interesting to open Antichamber in whatever level editor UE3 has. 22:56:20 Fiora, that one spiraled. 22:56:22 ahhhh 22:56:36 Fiora, though not as much as it SHOULD have spiraled to be physically possible 22:56:37 It did a really good job of hiding the splices 22:56:41 XD 22:57:11 Phantom_Hoover, it might be generating the levels on the fly from the perspective of the character in certain situations? 22:57:40 I... don't really see what you mean. 22:57:43 Phantom_Hoover, though the clean aesthetics would help with splicing, no shadows to worry about for example. 22:58:06 Uh, all the colours are due to lighting. 22:58:32 the splicing was kind of amazing, like, the one where you look up, and the floor disappears 22:58:34 ooh, the menu's cool 22:58:35 Phantom_Hoover, I mean there might in places not be a level file as such, that the engine reads in an defines as the geometry. Rather the game code could dynamically construct the geometry visible by the player at any given time. 22:58:35 but in the meantime it changed the room's exit 22:58:44 I think the textures are all blank white. 22:59:03 Vorpal, I kind of doubt it. 22:59:08 hm 22:59:09 I loved the puzzles that were about looking somewhere 22:59:16 and just. agh. the game was so fun 22:59:20 For one thing, it would be a /lot/ of work without a custom-built engine. 22:59:36 Fiora, those puzzle made me think "how would it physically detect that" though 22:59:43 but yes, they were kind of cool 22:59:47 Fiora, I was a bit narked at the puzzle where you have to look at a circle on the wall and walk backwards though. 22:59:59 I loved that one XD 23:00:04 Fiora, btw, the thing with the pink cube moving in a slit along walls in certain areas 23:00:08 what on earth was that about 23:00:12 Because those circles were all over the place in earlier sections and they'd never had any significance before. 23:00:14 I think I googled about that later 23:00:19 and the official statement was that they literally did nothing 23:00:30 Fiora, lol, I was successfully trolled then 23:00:41 you saw how they worked though, right? 23:00:44 they'd move only when you looked at them 23:00:46 For one thing, it would be a /lot/ of work without a custom-built engine. <-- true 23:00:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:01:03 I did 23:01:11 and I moved them all along to the end in each case 23:01:14 ah, so, the pink cubes don't do something -now-, but they might do something in a future update? and they are saved ni the savegame file 23:01:17 *in 23:01:23 heh 23:04:42 night → 23:09:23 hello guys 23:13:50 Koen_: you entered 5 minutes after everyone went silent hth 23:14:22 they were expecting me of course 23:14:29 hm... 23:14:38 I'm just back from a representation of a midsummer night's dream 23:14:41 it was awesome 23:14:48 a representation 23:14:58 that sounds mysterious and probably fun since it's midsummer 23:14:58 isn't that the proper english word? 23:15:00 a representation 23:15:09 do you mean a performance? 23:15:11 as of a play 23:15:12 i'm imagining great things 23:15:14 yes I do 23:15:17 like a representation in braille 23:15:21 on a cube 23:15:23 just sort of go and look at it 23:15:29 Koen_: what you think is the proper english word never is hth 23:15:29 or maybe a representation of it as music 23:15:36 a misdummer night's dream you can smell 23:15:44 yeah that tends to happen a lot 23:15:51 if you can't smell a performance of midsummer it's not a very good performance imo 23:15:51 so how about you all go silent for five minutes 23:15:55 and I enter again 23:20:05 hello guys! 23:21:18 what 23:23:08 I'm just back from a performance of a midsummer night's dream 23:23:12 it was awesome 23:23:38 a performance? 23:23:39 I think you mean a representation 23:24:05 yeah 23:24:11 the part of hippolyta will be played by this integer 23:24:24 what 23:24:26 seriously? 23:24:30 yes 23:25:00 what i want to know is whether it was a _unitary_ representation. 23:25:02 I'm not gonna look it up - I trust you guys! 23:25:10 what's a unitary 23:25:16 a kind of matrix 23:25:22 does that mean it all takes place in the same place and at the same time 23:25:28 thanks Bike 23:25:41 Koen_: no, that's greek drama i think 23:25:46 Koen_: ps i wasn't being serious 23:26:01 elliot not being serious? do you expect me to believe that! 23:26:12 elliot is always serious. 23:26:38 hm a unitary matrix is a "square root" of "unity", that's neat 23:27:01 Bike: um that's not true. 23:27:24 oh no conjugate transpose 23:28:12 btw Hippolyta was played by the same actress as Titania - which kinda makes sense since Hippolyta DOESN'T SAY A WORD IN THE WHOLE DAMN PLAY 23:28:22 it's a normal matrix whose eigenvalues are all on the unit circle. 23:28:57 that's pretty cool. 23:30:16 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:30:34 oh that's listed as point 7 on wikipedia 23:31:44 -!- sivoais has joined. 23:35:56 -!- constant has joined. 23:51:31 So, I guess an educational excersize for me might be for me to write a class Upcastable child parent where upcast :: child -> parent 23:51:36 And just start writing instances 23:57:28 Sgeo: i think i must ban you for trolling hth 23:57:46 ? 23:58:18 that sounds like stereotypically trying to force OO idioms to work in haskell 23:58:32 which is a common newbie error 23:58:35 is that really a "cast" 23:58:37 * Sgeo is not doing it with practical intent 23:59:24 O KAY