2013-04-01: 00:00:26 oerjan: file uses magic 00:00:35 -!- mb06cs has joined. 00:00:46 ic 00:00:51 -!- Vacation9 has joined. 00:00:59 -!- Vacation9 has left ("Konversation terminated!"). 00:01:10 o_o 00:01:38 this vacation9 person, seems to have a lot of trouble 00:01:52 elliott: well file doesn't recognize the first encoding as anything other than ASCII text 00:01:58 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:02:11 *outermost 00:03:16 That's something anyone doing this kind of stupid-day puzzle does, though. 00:03:52 well in that case they'll do all the rest too :P 00:04:26 -!- carado_ has joined. 00:04:32 or wait was that to Bike 00:04:54 oh, Sgeo is also there 00:04:54 I don't think people in general eyeball the second one, though. Maybe. 00:05:10 oerjan: No, it was to you. 00:05:41 Having done a bit of the official one, I can't really be criticizing anyone else for wasting their time. 00:06:17 nooga, elliottcable invited me there after I ranted a bit about node.js in the node.js channel 00:06:29 Bike: shachaf: i'm pretty sure that periodic function stuff is trivial if you can use the axiom of choice (and thus get a basis for the reals as a rational vector space), but is that intended? 00:06:44 oerjan: given the context, probably. 00:07:03 Sgeo: oh, I didn't know you're into node 00:07:16 I'm not into node 00:07:25 no? 00:07:33 de 00:07:36 then what were you doing in the #node.js? 00:08:38 good question 00:08:53 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:09:01 Complaining about node 00:09:02 Hey, what am I doing on #esoteric? Are people going to think I'm... into it? 00:09:12 indeed 00:09:15 you are 00:10:10 fizzie: they might start thinking you do wacky things such as programming befunge 00:10:45 7part #esoteric OH NOOOOO 00:11:50 also it is trivial that the two functions cannot be continuous, since then they would be bounded. 00:12:03 Sgeo: Did you seriously join #node.js to talk about how node.js is bad? 00:12:18 Yes 00:12:20 >.> 00:12:28 When people do that in #haskell, we usually consider them annoying trolls. 00:13:19 surely there is #haskell-flames for that. 00:13:28 Hi all. Esoteric programming languages are bad. 00:13:34 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 00:13:47 -!- oerjan has kicked ion Fuck off and die. 00:13:52 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 00:14:03 ion was kicked from #esoteric by oerjan [Fuck off and die] 00:14:05 golden 00:14:23 oerjan actually typed the F word 00:14:30 Good to see someone showing those uppity trolls who's the boss. 00:14:46 -!- ion has joined. 00:14:51 goljan oerden 00:14:51 `pastelogs WRONG WITH YOU 00:15:01 nooga: i'm sure it's happened before 00:15:39 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31028 00:16:09 Precedent! 00:16:19 imo oerjan is abusing his op powers 00:16:21 imoerjan 00:17:09 emoerjan 00:17:21 Instant Messagerjan. 00:17:48 shachaf: i vaguely recall you were being quite annoying. 00:18:22 although possibly by accident. 00:18:59 oerjan: irc.dahl.net 00:19:22 Oh nohl. 00:19:26 -!- nooga has changed nick to Meldo. 00:19:32 -!- Meldo has changed nick to nooga. 00:19:38 ...now i remember. maybe i should kick you again. 00:19:59 :☹( 00:20:12 Not a fan of Roald Dahl? 00:20:17 `run echo kick|h 00:20:19 kihck 00:24:19 kicques 00:25:16 oerjan: Why do you hate dahl.net so much? 00:25:21 http://overviewer.org/ 00:26:17 shachaf: because it doesn't exist. 00:26:30 A kihck graph is formed by taking all the maximal kihcks (people who've each kihcked each other) on the original channel, and adding an edge if the "F word" was used in a cross-maximal-kihck kihck event. 00:27:55 OHKAY 00:29:27 (Is there a sort of a clihque for directed graphs?) 00:30:31 probably several kinds 00:31:54 Assuming the kind where directions are removed and multiple edges collapsed, are there maximal kihcks on #esoteric larger than two? 00:32:33 That's the kind of question I'd like to ask W|A but I think they still haven't "curated" data about #esoteric. 00:32:35 rip ibm roadrunner 00:33:11 let's code some node 00:33:36 beep beep 00:33:56 "Meep meep", isn't it? 00:34:01 * Sgeo suddenly remembers that Bike wants to see a video of him typing. 00:34:36 fizzie: i'm pretty sure you are the most qualified person to collect and visualize the data hth 00:34:48 I... do? 00:34:52 Oh right, because you don't touch type. 00:35:35 fizzie: wikipedia seems to insist on beep 00:35:41 oerjan: It's like 3:35am and I was just going to sleep, and then you say something like that. "H", indeed. 00:36:02 SORRRY 00:36:22 I seem to have been wrong on the meeps too. 00:36:39 also http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070608064934AAlD3Rb 00:38:10 (warning: that was about as depressing as you'd expect) 00:41:37 -!- augur has joined. 00:45:57 -!- ssue_ has joined. 00:58:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:03:20 -!- augur has joined. 01:07:41 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130401-kick.png well now THAT was quite something. 01:08:12 elliott's been very bad. 01:08:38 youguysaremean / IWontSayAWord / pleasehearmeout <-- omg 01:08:43 The line thickness is from the count. 01:08:47 fizzie: can you... make this vertical instead 01:09:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:09:03 elliott: Possibly with a rankdir=LR. 01:09:44 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130401-kick2.png same thing the other way around. 01:10:45 As far as graphs go, it's remarkably bipartite. 01:10:54 With the self-edges being the only exceptions. 01:11:02 fizzie: you should op me so i can add some data to it. 01:11:06 I bet Bike wants to be kicked for science. 01:11:41 fizzie: i see tusho and lament kicked each other. i think. 01:11:55 oerjan: As did you and elliott, somehow. 01:12:14 oh. that wasn't visible. 01:12:26 It's more visible in the vertical version. 01:12:28 i also kicked monqy! 01:12:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:12:30 Since it's bipartite, it also means my original question about maximal kihcks of size greater than two probably has a negative answer. 01:12:53 anyway c'mon. opping me so i can kick people for fun is practically a tradition by now. 01:13:17 Nooo, I'll go a sleep now byebye -> 01:13:28 ok i guess oerjan has to do it then 01:15:27 fizzie: you are _quite_ a lazy op hth 01:17:01 it's awful. i'll kick him for it 01:20:15 oerjan: wow I feature deadfish and don't even get anything in return! 01:20:20 `run dmesg | paste 01:20:24 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13850 01:20:49 `slist 01:20:51 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 01:20:54 `run dmesg | tac 01:20:55 ​ ubda: unknown partition table \ console [mc-1] enabled \ Initializing software serial port version 1 \ console [tty0] enabled \ Console initialized on /dev/tty0 \ Initialized stdio console driver \ sit: IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver \ NET: Registered protocol family 10 \ TCP: cubic registered \ loop: module loaded \ brd: module loaded \ io sc 01:21:54 is tusho elliott or tswett, i always confuse it with kerlo 01:22:06 http://www.intercaloninterstates.org/ oh geez 01:22:06 it's NSQX 01:22:24 no it's not hth 01:22:27 Fiora: heh 01:22:48 wow it actually has sample code 01:23:24 yay the readme links to our wiki 01:24:29 (I finally found a relevant link for like once in forever) 01:25:40 more often than most of us manage 01:26:58 oerjan: http://ro-che.info/articles/2013-03-31-flavours-of-free-applicative-functors.html 01:27:02 oerjan: congratulations on being /r/haskell famous 01:27:09 albeit with a low-fidelity rendering of your name 01:28:10 I hit 110 pounds! 01:28:25 congrats 01:28:28 how tall are you Sgeo? 01:29:01 5'2" (around there, maybe a bit taller, I forget, 5'2" to 5'4" or so) 01:29:35 Jesus you're short. 01:29:38 elliott: argh i think he missed half the point, which was that my implementation doesn't use Functor f... 01:29:46 oerjan: the functor f thing is mentioned later. 01:29:51 oh. 01:29:59 oerjan: then he says you're a cannon! 01:30:06 eek 01:33:18 `run ls -l /dev/ubd* 01:33:20 ls: cannot access /dev/ubd*: No such file or directory 01:34:02 `paste < /tmp/16551.conf 01:34:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/%3C%20/tmp/16551.conf 01:34:17 er 01:34:19 `run paste < /tmp/16551.conf 01:34:21 bash: /tmp/16551.conf: No such file or directory 01:34:24 :( 01:35:04 5'2" isn't that short! 01:35:18 and congrats :o 01:35:47 Thanks 01:36:03 Pretty much everyone else I know who is this short is female 01:36:38 I don't entirely understand why so many women are short compared to men 01:36:39 I guess that's true, the average for guys is like 5'9" or something 01:36:50 I think it's just sexual dimorphism? 01:37:22 i feel like i should say "sexual dimorphism" winkingly and then transmute myself into a horrid fleshbeast 01:37:37 pfff:p 01:38:15 elliott: yay 01:39:22 Bike: aren't you already a horrid fleshbeast 01:40:04 Well I mean moreso. 01:40:07 Since I'd be a sexual one. 01:40:22 Hawt. 01:40:33 a terrified, asexual forcemeat 01:40:44 `addquote i feel like i should say "sexual dimorphism" winkingly and then transmute myself into a horrid fleshbeast 01:40:47 1004) i feel like i should say "sexual dimorphism" winkingly and then transmute myself into a horrid fleshbeast 01:41:04 sexual animorphism 01:41:24 Jesus you're short. // actually, given the change of humans' height over time, yeah, he's probably about as tall as Jesus was. 01:41:47 wait who's the asexual fleshbeat 01:42:15 truly, aren't we all asexual fleshbeasts. 01:44:47 elliott: he actually asked me in a message if i wanted to give my real name for attribution, but i haven't got around to visiting reddit properly yet today 01:44:58 Afraid I'm a sexual fleshbeast. 01:45:09 so i just saw it when clicking on the link back from the blog post to reddit 01:45:38 Örjan 01:47:13 a porn version of the animorphs 01:48:09 Sexual polymorphism 01:55:53 -_- 01:59:19 -!- mb06cs has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:00:05 i feel i've seen better wikipedia front pages for this date than this. 02:01:20 WE ARE NOT AMUSED 02:02:19 lame featured article 02:02:38 yeah that was the worst 02:03:25 today's picture was the best i think 02:03:38 -!- mb06cs has joined. 02:03:52 wikipedia has a front page? 02:04:12 the front page is /wiki/Special:Search?search=, right? 02:04:20 and the rest was trying to stretch things too far to try and be humorous 02:04:27 no, shachaf 02:04:56 oh 02:04:59 thoerjan 02:05:07 ywachaf 02:06:00 *to 02:06:11 oerjan: imo that works better with rwbarton 02:06:40 okachaf 02:21:22 oerjan: tusho is elliott. 02:21:45 -!- mb06cs has quit (*.net *.split). 02:21:46 -!- carado_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:21:46 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 02:21:53 you can't hide, NSQX. 02:22:04 -!- alex_joni has joined. 02:22:18 Bike: looks like we need more clues. 02:22:38 help how do i write \mathcal letters on paper 02:25:15 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 02:25:28 -!- FreeFull has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 02:26:14 nooodl_: pretend you're 19th century european royalty. 02:26:29 haha that's actually pretty much what i'm doing 02:26:36 they're so swooshy and unreadable... god 02:27:00 i'll just write a bunch of As Bs and Cs and hope i never have to deal with anything beyond that 02:27:18 alex_joni: What's a function that's continuous almost everywhere but differentiable nowhere? 02:28:04 Why almost? 02:28:16 indeed, drop the almost. 02:28:25 Maybe Bike is thinking of a different function. 02:28:33 `welcome alex_joni 02:28:35 alex_joni: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:30:42 how do i keep misplacing all of my virtual machines 02:30:48 -!- alex_joni has left ("later"). 02:31:36 everyone i love dies :( 02:31:57 :/ 02:32:43 s/i love // hth 02:32:55 oerjan: Bike loves everyone 02:33:25 Yes. 02:35:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:38:32 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:38:50 -!- mb06cs has joined. 02:38:50 -!- carado_ has joined. 02:38:50 -!- myndzi has joined. 02:39:50 Bike: alex_joni: What's a function that's continuous almost everywhere but differentiable nowhere? 02:40:22 all functions! 02:40:32 what 02:40:33 * Koen_ in Koen's world, all sets are discrete 02:40:50 ok 02:41:09 Isn't it the same in elliott's world. 02:41:15 isn't there one that's like... f(p/q) = 1/q, f(x) = 0 for p,q integers, x irrational 02:41:24 weierstrass's is the "canonical" one 02:41:32 i think elliott believes in differentiable functions 02:42:31 fractalicious 02:42:46 while we're talking about weird functions, i like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_base_13_function 02:43:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Excess Flood). 02:43:44 My favorite conway thing is probably that huge-ass polynomial. 02:43:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:44:13 the one for look-and-say. 02:46:25 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:49:32 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 02:50:07 i haven't sen 02:50:09 seen 02:50:19 seen what 02:50:36 that polynomial 02:50:38 Conway's huge polynomial? Hereabouts it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look-and-say_sequence 02:50:52 Yeah, it's in there, like degree 70-something 02:51:21 -!- augur has joined. 02:52:39 kmc: how is that continuous? 02:52:55 you're jumping from 1/q to 0 02:53:38 Koen_: as you get closer to an irrational number by rational approximations, the denominator gets bigger and bigger 02:54:24 I bet you can't find a rational that's right next to an irrational. 02:55:50 oh 02:55:52 ok 02:55:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:56:12 help what's a right next to 02:56:42 I think the usual term is equality 02:57:29 shachaf: Right. 02:58:07 -!- monqy has joined. 02:59:25 hi monqy 02:59:30 hi 02:59:31 monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 02:59:49 got you! 02:59:58 Oh boy. Conway's base 13 function takes on the value of every real number, in every open interval? 02:59:58 -!- aytch has joined. 03:00:04 wait that wasn't even my @message 03:00:40 -!- aytch has left ("Leaving..."). 03:00:40 oh, that's a good property. 03:00:41 doesn't identity do that already? 03:00:41 I want to have a lambdabot message. 03:00:54 oh wait 03:01:07 @tell tswett Not a chance 03:01:07 Consider it noted. 03:01:09 maybe not then 03:01:22 hey oerjan this article talks about someone who shares your first name 03:01:27 what are the chances 03:01:45 shachaf: infinitesimal 03:03:28 I regard Oerjan’s version as the principal one. It is simple, powerful (doesn’t require f to be a functor) and straightforward (doesn’t change the arguments order). 03:03:46 "doesn’t require f to be a functor"? 03:03:46 So what's the best function that takes on every value on every interval? 03:03:46 tswett: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 03:04:00 *gasp* I have a message? :Ö: 03:04:14 @messages 03:04:15 oerjan said 3m 8s ago: Not a chance 03:04:42 I'm so happy. :'))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 03:05:07 tswett: that base 13 function does look pretty good 03:06:01 shachaf: nope, it doesn't 03:06:20 `slist 03:06:21 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:06:23 [S] 03:06:35 oerjan: What about all these "Functor f =>" constraints? 03:06:55 shachaf: completely redundant 03:06:58 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:07:04 -!- augur has joined. 03:07:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:07:11 Anyway I'm not sure what it means for it to be a "free applicative" if there's no functor. 03:07:47 shachaf: the applicative itself is a functor. it just doesn't use any underlying one. 03:07:59 Right. 03:08:12 So what is it a "free applicative" of? 03:08:23 Well... In what sense is it "free"? 03:08:30 of a * -> * kind data constructor 03:08:41 Well, sure. 03:08:45 what does "free" even mean help 03:09:27 well usually it's about having the right universal property 03:09:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:10:06 i thought "free" meant "left adjoint to a forgetful functor" or something 03:10:17 shachaf: that "lower" function should probably be the corresponding forgetful functor 03:10:24 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:12:13 or part of it 03:13:56 -!- augur has joined. 03:14:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:15:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:17:07 -!- heroux has joined. 03:18:23 oerjan: Can you explain the thing with the free F-Alg monad? 03:19:16 no. 03:19:54 i haven't been following those posts 03:20:20 Which posts? 03:20:27 This is unrelated to ro-che. 03:21:14 well i vaguely recall seeing reddit posts mentioning F-algebras 03:21:41 WELL I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THOSE REDDIT POSTS 03:21:50 (unless i actually am talking about them) 03:22:11 well i'm pointing out i haven't learned anything about F-algebras 03:22:43 i may have had my eyes glaze over over some of those posts, that's all 03:26:03 I guess copumpkin will have to explain it. 03:26:40 wat 03:28:12 copumpkin: i categorically refused to answer, so you will have to answer categorically. 03:28:37 oerjan++ 03:37:01 Has Google Maps had this "Treasure" mode for a while or is it an April thing? 03:37:42 latter aiui 03:43:31 huh, seems like quite a bit of effort to do, I think? 03:43:40 I don't know, I don't know how image processing works 03:44:13 Hmm, probably not 03:45:01 It's all done by hand. 03:45:38 are you saying humans have developed the technology to "draw" "maps" 03:47:27 they use wood and arrows 03:49:06 elliott: sheesh elliott, humans made maps even in the middle age. it just took them most of their life to complete one. 03:49:26 oerjan: ummm they didn't have image processing technology in the middle ages 03:50:44 elliott: that's why it took so long to make, duh 03:50:56 they had to do it without processing. 03:50:59 * Sgeo was thinking at first that Google was taking the rendered map image and converting it to treasure, but presumably Google actually has map data which makes more sense 03:58:16 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:01:35 They didn't even have aircraft back then; how could they have had maps? 04:03:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 04:09:36 -!- augur has joined. 04:11:27 -!- ousia has joined. 04:21:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnäyt). 04:21:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:24:39 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:26:20 oh yeah, f-algebras 04:26:27 world's most boring concept 04:29:57 -!- sathiyac2 has joined. 04:29:59 That's pretty boring. 04:30:46 take an endofunctor F 04:30:52 on category C 04:31:07 F-algebra is an object x of C and a morphism from F x -> x 04:31:10 there you go 04:31:14 no laws, no nothing 04:31:28 OK. 04:31:33 why do you need an endofunctor? 04:31:34 Why do free F-algebras give you free monads? 04:31:42 wait, never mind 04:31:48 elliott: badly typed otherwise :) 04:31:54 :-X 04:32:00 copumpkin: It could be a contravariant functor! 04:32:09 sathiyac2: :-Y 04:32:20 sathiyac2: Try unzipping it. 04:32:24 shachaf: it could be, not sure what would happen to the category construction then 04:32:43 Anyway this is apparently very related to free monads. 04:32:50 shachaf: not sure about a free f-algebra 04:33:04 you know how you get data out of initial f-algebras though? 04:33:23 initial and free are kinda similar 04:33:26 "out of"? 04:33:29 Do you mean using? 04:33:31 well, how they're connected 04:33:37 or how one is justified by the other 04:34:29 That's related to foldr with (:) and [], I guess? 04:34:43 yeah, or folds in general 04:34:51 Right. 04:34:55 can u plz tell me . . wat is f-algebra ? 04:34:56 which are just defining characteristics of data 04:35:12 sathiyac2: 05:30:46 take an endofunctor F 04:35:13 05:30:53 on category C 04:35:13 05:31:07 F-algebra is an object x of C and a morphism from F x -> x 04:35:13 But I'm not sure what you mean in particular. 04:35:15 anyway, it turns out that f-algebras can be made into a category 04:35:27 so for a particular F, you can construct its category of F-algebras 04:35:45 where the algebras are objects, and the morphisms are still pretty simple 04:37:06 so basically I said that an f-algebra is an object of C and a morphism in it. To look at the moprhism between two f-algebras, just take a moprhism between their two objects, such that a fairly obvious law is satisfied 04:37:28 so anyway, now you have this category of f-algebras 04:37:41 if you look at the initial obejcts in that category, you'll find you can prove a remarkable property about them 04:37:45 which is called lambek's lemma 04:39:07 The morphism part of every initial F-algebra has an inverse? 04:39:16 well sort of 04:39:47 but the more interesting part is that the object part X of that initial algebra is isomorphic to F X 04:39:52 so X ~= F X 04:40:20 which is basically a roundabout way to get a fixed point 04:40:47 Well, that's the same thing, isn't it? If f : F X -> X has an inverse then X ~= F X? 04:40:55 sure 04:41:14 OK. Hmm. 04:41:25 I just think phrasing it as a fixed point is more revealing 04:41:41 when we're used to writing data ListF a r = …; Mu (ListF a) 04:41:48 Right. 04:42:46 the same argument works for terminal coalgebras of course 04:42:49 and gets you codata 04:43:38 oh shit, the fake announcements have already started popping up 04:44:13 So the free monad thing is related, I think. 04:44:36 For the left adjoint to the forgetful functor : F-Alg(C) -> C 04:45:21 -!- btiffin has joined. 04:46:30 That works out to be the same as the free monad? 04:48:22 beats me :) 04:48:24 work it out 04:48:28 I'm going to sleep! 04:48:42 what is this "work" thing.......... 04:48:47 copumpkin: Thanks! 04:49:02 lol 04:49:03 Now I know a bit about Lambek's Lemma and Colambek's Colemma. 04:49:10 I have work to go to tomorrow! 04:49:15 can't stay up all night doing CT, you know 04:49:20 such is life in CT 05:02:24 what is metasploit can u plzz 05:02:51 can u plz. 05:03:00 no Bike. plzz. 05:03:11 what is lmgtfy 05:03:42 am new dont mistake mee frnds 05:04:20 `relcome sathiyac2 05:04:23 ​sathiyac2: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:23:22 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:25:55 copumpkin: class Algebra a where algebra :: F a -> a 05:26:17 newtype Foo a = Foo { runFoo :: forall r. Algebra r => (a -> r) -> r } 05:27:25 no restriction on F? 05:27:39 F is a specific functor. 05:27:49 You can tell because it's uppercase. 05:27:54 oh. 05:28:53 With MPTCs you can say class Algebra f a where ... 05:33:29 -!- sathiyac2 has left. 05:37:12 Has anyone tried CB Slang syntax? 05:37:50 10- codes? 05:37:50 like cb radio? 05:37:55 yep 05:38:01 10-4 good buddy 05:39:09 Just curious. 05:51:57 oh interesting. ML was introduced to write tactics for LCF. 05:52:13 so the OCaml and Coq thing just continues that trend of ML-family languages being invented for theorem provers... 05:53:51 cute 06:05:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:06:09 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 06:06:09 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:07:02 monqy: maybe you feel like talking about the f-algebra thing a bit 06:07:24 um 06:07:25 ??? 06:08:03 you know, the adjunction : F-Alg(C) -> C 06:08:06 and free monads 06:09:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:13:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:14:07 -!- ogrom has joined. 06:15:27 -!- heroux has joined. 06:28:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:43:09 What kind of other stuff do I need for quantum computing related stuff in Esoteric Verilog? 06:49:22 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:51:25 I have also listed various other things; do you know about any of those things too? 06:54:18 -!- btiffin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:59:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:03:33 If such thing as quantum FPGA, reversible FPGA, mechanical FPGA, chemical FPGA, biological FPGA, self-modifying FPGA, etc, would exist, then Esoteric Verilog might be capable to program them. However, unlike standard Verilog, not all of Esoteric Verilog is even usable in a simulation; it is not only a hardware proper subset but there must be a *possible* proper subset, too! 07:04:01 I'm still wondering what "biological FPGA" is supposed to mean. Same with "chemical" really. 07:04:55 I don't know either. 07:06:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:06:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:06:39 I also don't even know if it is possible, even though ASIC might be possible of such thing, maybe (or maybe not). However, such things as infinite FPGA, and halting oracles of Turing complete systems, are obviously impossible. 07:06:49 zzo38: I think a "destroy the universe" command cannot generally be implemented in a quantum program 07:06:59 ais523: I know; it is impossible. 07:07:10 if it could be, then quantum computers could execute all NP algorithms in polynomial time, and that's not generally believed to be possible 07:07:13 Esoteric Verilog is partially impossible. 07:07:17 right 07:07:22 However, I intend to have possible things, too. 07:07:23 I'd noticed that elsewhere 07:07:43 so you're aiming for uncomputable quantum operations, as well as uncomputable classical operations? 07:08:03 Yes, but also computable things, too; not only uncomputable things. 07:12:34 As well as things with simply are strange. 07:17:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:18:18 However, may you can notice even some possible quantum operations which I have missed in that article. 07:19:08 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:20:51 -!- heroux has joined. 07:35:41 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:43:28 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:46:22 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: a rotten little slug body). 07:47:50 hey, #esoteric: can I ask for advice on how to do something that is probably a bad idea? 07:48:12 That's probably a bad idea. But you can ask. 07:48:28 well, I want to write a web application 07:48:53 or, at least, I'm personally going to use it standalone, but other people might reasonably use it as a web application, and I'm planning to write it in HTML+JavaScript 07:49:23 now, this thing needs to use a bunch of information that's stored in a (read-only) relational database 07:49:33 but I want it to work offline as well 07:49:46 so, I want advice on how best to store an entire relational database in JavaScript 07:50:44 (it's 33 megabytes as a sqlite3 database, so large but not unreasonably large for this purpose) 07:52:04 one thing I'm considering is just using literal dictionaries to store the data and doing joins by hand 07:52:31 and writing a program to trawl the database and convert it to dictionaries 07:53:17 or, hmm 07:53:23 perhaps the sane way would be to have a pluggable database access thing 07:53:46 and have the db-in-js as just one of the plugins, and talking to an actual webserver that was connected to an actual database server another option 07:54:25 the other option, which I've also considered, is to talk to the owner of the database and convince them to give their site an API 07:54:41 to which the conclusion is, that they're actually planning that but it won't be ready in time 07:55:59 You could threaten to copy their database and distribute it with your application. 07:56:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:57:04 Hello 07:57:16 hello 07:58:04 Would a system of cryptocracy (decentralized crypto-democracy) be feasible? Would it ever work? 07:59:12 define "work" 07:59:24 if you mean "could be a system by which decisions were made", probably 07:59:34 ais523: Sounds reasonable to me. How complicated are the queries that you'll be doing, anyway? 08:00:01 if you mean "could be a system by which decisions were made and the public had high confidence in the decisions being correct from a procedural perspective, i.e. not tained by fraud or error", questionable 08:00:19 shachaf: they're basically just a sequence of joins, mostly one-to-one, the occasional one-to-many or many-to-many 08:00:21 Could you ever organize a group of people in this way without getting total anarchy and yes, where actual decision can be made? 08:00:33 ais523: Hmm, doesn't HTML5 have an actual SQLy storage API? 08:00:38 hi 08:00:42 if you mean "could be a system underpinning a stable society", probably not, assuming a large society 08:00:48 shachaf: it has a storage API, but isn't that for an entirely different purpose? 08:00:50 this information's read-only 08:00:58 you could certainly organize a small group, and it's been done 08:01:15 (well, maybe not decentralized) 08:01:15 coppro: really? Any links on that? 08:01:21 oh right 08:01:25 that's pretty much the biggest part 08:01:30 of the idea 08:01:35 ais523: ? 08:01:48 ais523, can't you use sqlite from js these days? 08:01:50 shachaf: like, the HTML5 storage API is for things that are like cookies, but larger 08:01:54 There are algorithms for propagating majority decisions on networks 08:01:55 Vorpal: I was wondering about that 08:01:58 they're quite interesting 08:02:01 ais523, local browser storage or something? 08:02:01 compiling sqlite3 to JS, or the like 08:02:02 I mean this openDatabase thing. 08:02:09 Vorpal: right, but 08:02:16 that's for storing a database on the user's computer 08:02:16 Maybe this is Chrome-only or something? 08:02:26 and adding and removing stuff in it 08:02:28 isn't it? 08:02:33 ais523, right, so put a config file if it should use a server or not? 08:02:35 whereas this database is something we're providing to the user 08:02:36 but from a sociological and political perspective, a large society trying to do this would be doomed to fail because of the inherent problems of letting everyone participate in all the decision-making: there are just too many complexities and subtleties 08:02:39 and is read-only 08:02:42 ais523, and on the server version use, say, postgresql 08:02:45 oh read only 08:02:46 right 08:02:47 hrrm 08:02:56 tricky 08:03:08 well, not really tricky because read-only is a subset of read-write 08:03:11 33 MB 08:03:14 well that is kind of large 08:03:17 but it does change what it's optimal for 08:03:22 I wouldn't want to use that from my phone for example 08:03:23 coppro: well, I guess that you can't do everything using referenda 08:03:24 yeah, 33 MB is exactly in the "kind-of large" range :) 08:03:41 ais523, did you say what it was for? 08:03:41 a typical desktop with a broadband connection won't care 08:03:44 Vorpal: no 08:03:44 I suspect that would cause severe conservatism, and possible extreme thinking 08:03:48 oh okay 08:03:53 ais523, then I wonder what it is for 08:04:09 I'm planning to update my Pokémon IV checker into a full teambuilder 08:04:11 This document was on the W3C Recommendation track but specification work has stopped. The specification reached an impasse: all interested implementors have used the same SQL backend (Sqlite), but we need multiple independent implementations to proceed along a standardisation path 08:04:19 come to think of it, it'd probably need a second database too 08:04:28 the one giving statistics from the competitive community 08:04:36 as well as the one containing information from the game itself 08:05:07 ais523, anyway I have ADSL, 33 MB as a download (zip, tgz, whatever) I wouldn't care about, but if I expected to load it as a web page it would take long enough that I would assume the server was timing out, and I would probably just end up giving up and closing the page. 08:05:18 AnotherTest: indeed 08:05:27 I should probably go to sleep 08:05:38 I believe I need to be up in 3 hours to finish an April Fool's prank 08:05:42 ais523, if it was to load directly as a web page it would need a progress bar 08:05:46 Vorpal: I wonder how far the data can be reduced via selecting only the data that we'd actually use, and the like 08:06:03 and you could put it in a separate page and AJAX-load it, I guess; that'd work even when saved locally 08:06:40 ais523, people these days expect pages to load fast. If there is no obvious reason, and no progress bar, most people would give up within 10 seconds. I remember reading some study that showed that somewhere. 08:06:44 A couple of years ago. 08:06:50 I suggest not writing in JavaScript; write in SQL instead. Write in C you can still access over internet if needed. If you want a webpage that can be written afterward. 08:06:51 I would probably give it around 10 seconds myself 08:07:12 so yeah, progress bar is a good idea 08:07:26 ais523, that means js of course 08:07:28 anyway, I asked #esoteric because I knew you lot wouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand 08:07:32 but you are using it anyway 08:07:35 well this is heavily JSy anyway 08:08:17 ais523, anyway, pokemon IV, which generation is that in terms of the games in it? 08:08:24 sapphire? 08:08:26 Vorpal: 3 onwards; the one I did was for 4 08:08:33 err 08:08:41 that doesn't help me really 08:08:46 oh, 3 = ruby/sapphire/emerald/firered/leafgreen 08:08:51 and IV is then? 08:08:53 4 = diamond/pearl/platinum/heartgold/soulsilver 08:08:55 ah 08:08:56 okay 08:09:02 5 = black/white/black2/white2 08:09:06 right 08:09:12 soulsilver/heartgold are such silly names 08:09:21 they're good games though 08:09:35 ais523: It should only download 33MB if the user explicitly requests it, of course. 08:09:44 ais523, are they copies of each other with different bosses and/or pokemons? 08:09:47 I like soulsilver more, has an alliteration 08:09:52 I seem to remember Nintendo doing a lot of that 08:10:04 shachaf: well, that would be a case of putting a warning "this site is unusable unless it first downloads 33MB" 08:10:13 unless I used the filesystem as a database or something stupid like that 08:10:13 -!- kallisti has joined. 08:10:16 which always seemed like exploiting the customer base to me 08:10:26 Vorpal: and yeah, soulsilver and heartgold are basically identical with a few changes 08:10:29 the customer base didn't seem to care though, so meh 08:10:41 ais523: Oh, I thought you were going to have a non-offline version that made queries to the server database. 08:10:41 in my case it's OK because I have a family who also plays Pokémon 08:10:46 so we buy the required number of versions anyway 08:10:59 heh 08:11:00 shachaf: yeah, I'm coming around to that opinion 08:11:04 ais523, well yeah that works 08:11:05 so we'd have an online version and an offline version 08:11:13 At any rate abstraction is always good, right? 08:11:18 right 08:11:20 always 08:11:39 What's with the base64 string in the topic? 08:11:54 AnotherTest: It's the puzzle you need to solve to get to level 8. 08:12:01 personally I played one pokemon game in an emulator (think it was sapphire? It had Team Magma as the bad guys I remember), and I thought "okay, that was not too bad, but I don't see myself playing another pokemon game, far too repetitive" 08:12:09 Well, there's also the whole "two periodic functions whose sum is the identity function" thing. 08:12:10 shachaf: Is this some kind of cryptograhpic puzzle? 08:12:24 Exactly. It's a cryptograph. 08:12:35 Is there another tip other than that string? 08:12:50 My suggestion is to not make it a webpage at all, it doesn't seem correct for what you seem to be making to me; writing it as a local program in SQL seems better. 08:13:07 AnotherTest, freenode has a first of April quiz, we were/are trolling the guys who try to cheat by looking in /list. 08:13:09 zzo38: people want everything on the web these days 08:13:30 Vorpal: oh nice 08:13:32 AnotherTest, that is why the "level 7" is there 08:13:38 However, HTML (and XUL) are ways to provide a GUI which is consistent, if needed, but it isn't needed. 08:13:40 $ base64 -d | od -tx1z -w47 08:13:41 H4sIADG1WFEAAzMxVDA3UDA3UjCzVDBLVjAyUDAxUzBLAyMg1xAAAdFVNCAAAAA= 08:13:43 0000000 1f 8b 08 00 31 b5 58 51 00 03 33 31 54 30 37 50 30 37 52 30 b3 54 30 4b 56 30 32 50 30 31 53 30 4b 03 23 20 d7 10 00 01 d1 55 34 20 00 00 00 >....1.XQ..31T07P07R0.T0KV02P01S0K.# .....U4 ...< 08:13:50 ais523, it is gzip encoded and then base64 08:14:06 Well considering it's a first of april quiz, that's probably going to be encrypted using AES too 08:14:10 so we're probably fucked 08:14:12 and it decodes to some randomish hex digit 08:14:27 April Encryption Standard 08:14:31 ^ 08:14:34 heh 08:14:39 Let's to frequency analysis 08:14:40 AnotherTest: I still think it is not good idea, though. Especially I don't like it, and some other people also don't like (including Stallman, but there are others too, I am sure); however, it would still be possible having a separate front-end for webpages if needed. 08:14:49 that doesn't look randomish at all, it's all in the printable ASCII range 08:14:54 AnotherTest, it is just gzip wrapped in base64 08:15:03 oh? 08:15:15 First ungzip it 08:15:26 then it's probably still random gibberish 08:15:35 then do a frequency analysis on that 08:15:43 $ echo H4sIADG1WFEAAzMxVDA3UDA3UjCzVDBLVjAyUDAxUzBLAyMg1xAAAdFVNCAAAAA= | base64 -d | gunzip; echo 08:15:43 41 70 72 69 6c 20 46 6f 6f 6c 21 08:15:59 it's "April Fool!", encoded as ASCII representations of the hex digits of its ASCII representation, then gzipped, then base64ed 08:16:03 ah 08:16:05 fair enough 08:16:57 ais523, "od -tx1z -w47" <-- you remember that syntax off the top of your head? 08:17:03 I had to look up the -w 08:17:09 which is arguably the easier to remember 08:17:13 I use -tx1z all the time, though 08:17:15 what does -w mean? 08:17:19 output width 08:17:21 or tx1z for that matter 08:17:27 I set it to 47 to stop it wrapping, so that it fit on one line of IRC 08:17:29 I can never remember od syntax 08:17:45 -tx1z means "interpret single bytes at a time, output in hexadecimal, also output printable characters as ASCII" 08:18:10 the default is -to2 or something stupid like that 08:18:14 Well, I must say it's a very original piece of text 08:18:45 heh 08:22:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:24:19 I'm going to go for a while to buy food 08:24:27 I'll be back in, an hour or so? maybe a bit more 08:24:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:24:45 cya... 08:36:04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr4JwPb99qU 08:36:15 i cannot wait for this to happen 08:44:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:48:21 -!- soulseekah has joined. 08:51:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:52:33 -!- soulseekah has left. 08:55:37 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:57:50 Is nobody going to create an April fools programming language this year? 09:00:50 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:02:15 http://www.intercaloninterstates.org/ is this close enough? XD 09:02:51 -!- heroux has joined. 09:03:33 Fiora: Definitely :D 09:03:59 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:04:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:04:38 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 09:10:49 Fiora, was that made today?? 09:18:22 hm someone should totally implement that 09:20:08 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:21:07 -!- heroux has joined. 09:23:29 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:23:48 Vorpal: I think it was XD 09:23:54 it says april fools in the download 09:23:59 and apparently links to the esolangs wiki too XD 09:24:06 yes 09:24:12 someone should implement it 09:27:08 bbl 09:28:35 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:32:19 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:35:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:47:24 Bah. I just ran GraphViz on an 86-node 7396-edge graph, and it's taking a forever. 09:47:34 (Perhaps some pruning might be appropriate.) 09:48:57 Uh, whoops. I think it was accidentally the complete graph. 09:49:17 Or what's the term for a directed graph with all the possible edges? 09:50:00 Yes, it really should've been 3782 edges. Which isn't terribly much better. 09:50:14 fizzie: complete graph is the usual term for a graph with as many edges as possible 09:50:25 not sure if it'd apply to DAGs, but I don't see why it wouldn't apply to directed graphs in general 09:50:44 "A complete digraph is a directed graph in which every pair of distinct vertices is connected by a pair of unique edges (one in each direction)" guess so. 09:51:05 It's not exactly a DAG. 09:51:14 You might even call it a DVCG. 09:53:24 fizzie: yeah, I was trying to make it clear that directed graphs and directed acyclic graphs were different in my response 09:53:47 basically because I know people who'd assume acyclic if I said directed, even if there's no particular dependency between those 09:55:17 o.O someone said the answer in the first channel and after that it was kind of easy 09:55:34 Well, some were 10:00:31 The song with drug references wasn't easy :-/ 10:00:45 There's too many 10:00:54 The right one was also a stupid one. 10:02:43 -!- kallisti has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:07:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:09:42 Sadly, the graph turned out pretty stupid-looking: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130401-tmp.png 10:11:10 -!- nooga has joined. 10:11:53 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:12:01 I only know of one such song :/ 10:12:10 Or maybe I'm misrememberig 10:13:36 -!- heroux has joined. 10:15:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet1.jpg 10:16:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:16:48 shouldn't that be called www1.jpg or something 10:17:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:19:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:20:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet2.jpg 10:21:57 fizzie: wuzzat 10:22:58 Jafet: Please: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet2.jpg 10:23:58 https://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Internet2.jpg 10:24:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:24:24 I tried it. 10:24:27 Sadly it doesn't work. 10:24:37 Well, it works if I click "Proceed anyway" 10:24:53 Which is presumably what you're meant to do with https errors. 10:24:55 But then it just redirects. 10:25:11 -!- heroux has joined. 10:25:41 Interesting, the https server redirects to the http server. 10:26:27 `pbflist 10:26:31 shachaf Sgeo quintopia 10:28:47 oklopol: It's pretty much using http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/people_mentions.html as the adjacency matrix, except without the normalization to frequencies, and with some pruning. 10:28:53 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 10:29:37 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:30:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:30:08 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:30:11 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130401-tmp-1.png same but with fdp and more pruning. 10:30:12 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 10:30:55 elliott......... 10:31:16 -!- heroux has joined. 10:31:19 I was going to do it using only "^foo[:,;]" attribution entries, but I had this "mentions" data ready-to-use. 10:31:42 So I pretty much only talk to elliott and kmc and oerjan and monqy? 10:31:44 Makes sense. 10:32:18 It's only the 100 or so most common (mentioner, mentionee) pairs. 10:32:35 Quite a lot of those things are mutual, though. 10:33:12 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 10:33:36 Perhaps I should've done the "divide by number of words spoken in total" normalization here too. At least it might be less elliott-dominated that way. 10:34:55 i love the elliott centerpiece 10:35:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:37:14 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 10:39:43 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130401-tmp-2.png normalized. 10:40:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:41:55 huh 10:43:19 I guess the unnormalized one looks better, anyway. 10:43:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:43:34 > "hi el" ++ "liott" 10:43:36 "hi elliott" 10:43:49 You are skewing the data. 10:44:19 -!- heroux has joined. 10:44:27 Literaelliotty. 10:44:29 Poor lambdabot, (according to the graph) always just muttering to emself. 10:44:53 Jafet: That one got ignored, it's based on a split to words. 10:45:00 (It's also not real-time.) 10:45:46 el ttl io 10:46:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:50:39 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:50:45 -!- DH____ has joined. 10:53:12 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:53:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:59:00 fungot: Hablas espaol? 10:59:00 ThatOtherPerson: k i vil cum der dude..u dint create to god. hw was the lec lol ibefore that got lab haven do can do togetherlol i bring the mini project. and course. i guess. 10:59:47 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:00:23 ^style 11:00:23 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms* speeches ss wp youtube 11:00:27 ais523_, hi 11:00:41 ais523_, did you make that http://www.intercaloninterstates.org/ site? 11:01:11 sad it is only a joke, would have been even more funny if some sort of pre-processor for it was actually implemented XD 11:01:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:01:23 oh okay 11:01:27 ais523_, hi 11:01:27 ais523_, did you make that http://www.intercaloninterstates.org/ site? 11:01:27 sad it is only a joke, would have been even more funny if some sort of pre-processor for it was actually implemented XD 11:01:28 ais523, ^ 11:01:54 Vorpal: I didn't make it 11:01:54 I did comment on it in ali, though 11:01:58 ah 11:02:05 and write some general comments about INTERCAL on the Reddit thread 11:02:15 okay 11:02:21 ais523, do you know who made it? 11:02:26 no 11:02:29 oh 11:02:41 well, I know their reddit username and their email address 11:02:48 fair enough 11:02:49 but they both appear to be single-purpose accounts 11:02:56 nobody in here? 11:03:03 so it may be someone I know using a pseudonym 11:03:07 ah 11:03:32 ais523, you should totally implement a web framework for intercal though, it would be so funny 11:05:01 INTERCAL is really really bad at string handling 11:05:55 right, why should that stop you 11:07:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:08:18 Today's Comments on a Postcard is somewhat odd 11:12:46 -!- carado_ has joined. 11:13:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:26:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:27:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:29:12 -!- impomatic has joined. 11:29:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:31:25 -!- heroux has joined. 11:34:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:36:21 "Jews are forbidden from doing creative work on the Shabbat." 11:36:34 But they appear to have many creative ways around this rule. 11:38:00 Clearly they came up with those ways on Sunday-Friday 11:39:30 If they invent one during shabbat, I guess they aren't allowed to use it. 11:44:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:49:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:01:39 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:03:21 -!- heroux has joined. 12:03:33 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:08:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:17:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:26:06 http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2013/n3558.pdf C++14 getting futures? 12:26:52 C++11 has std::future 12:27:44 http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/thread/future 12:30:58 nooga: that proposal just adds a number of extra's it seems 12:31:07 *extras 12:31:27 i'm not up to date with c++ 12:31:31 i don't use it 12:31:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 12:39:26 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:45:17 Most people who use it aren't, either. 12:47:54 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 12:51:28 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:53:25 -!- heroux has joined. 12:53:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:57:12 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:05:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:06:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:06:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:07:18 -!- augur has joined. 13:09:52 Ideas for family-tree: 13:10:05 Unify traversePerson/traverseFamily/traverseEvent 13:10:11 Remove events (they're stupid) 13:11:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:13:03 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:13:20 What could I call the unified traversal 13:14:17 traverse? 13:14:30 Taken 13:14:36 -!- monqy has joined. 13:14:52 Something short, like, 5-6 letters 13:15:06 ftTrvs (no) 13:15:06 -!- heroux has joined. 13:15:17 esrevart 13:15:48 ...no 13:16:20 That’s good, too. 13:20:04 -!- atriq has joined. 13:23:04 -!- atriq has quit (Client Quit). 13:25:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:28:23 -!- nooga has joined. 13:30:11 srvrt 13:33:14 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:38:57 -!- conehead has joined. 13:44:36 -!- nooga has joined. 13:51:19 -!- augur has joined. 13:56:03 -!- nooga_ has joined. 13:56:31 -!- carado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:56:39 -!- carado has joined. 13:56:43 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:58:53 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:00:56 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:07:22 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 14:07:38 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:13:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:14:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:14:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:14:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:15:54 Vorpal: re the intercal on interstates thing, claudio calvelli (the maker of CLC-INTERCAL) replied to a comment of mine in a way that vaguely implies he might be the author, but I'm not sure 14:16:27 heh 14:16:55 ais523, would it be least painful to add these extensions to C- or CLC-INTERCAL? 14:17:12 hmm 14:17:19 the page itself implies it's based on C-INTERCAL 14:17:33 in general, C-INTERCAL is easier to change; OTOH, CLC-INTERCAL has more of the functionality in question already 14:17:40 well, yes, but the download is empty, just a README says "April's Fools" 14:17:46 and is more flexible, in that it supports more types of changes 14:18:07 hm 14:18:15 so no clear answer to the question then? 14:18:32 indeed 14:18:54 would you ever consider implementing something like interstates? 14:20:09 I'm not sure I get exactly how it works, from the description 14:20:34 I said something like it, with that I mean a web framework for intercal, might obviously need some changes 14:20:42 or adding features not described there 14:20:59 right 14:21:25 in general, I'd like to see it done inside the language as a library, rather than as addons to the compiler 14:21:30 Hm are there any CGI programs written in INTERCAL? 14:21:39 yes 14:21:43 heh 14:22:07 I thought data got passed as environment variables, how do you deal with that? 14:22:11 oh wow, not just that, it still works: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal/ins/insstart.html 14:22:53 "Of course, CGI also makes valuable information available through environment variables, and INTERCAL knows nothing of such objects. But a carefully designed program can make do without that information." 14:23:23 heh 14:23:52 Well you could use IFFI I assume to do that 14:23:59 yeah but it didn't exist at the time 14:24:05 fair enough 14:24:15 or you could use the FFI to C, which would probably be easier than the FFI to Befunge-98 14:24:20 true 14:24:21 but that didn't exist at the time either 14:24:39 anyway aren't there a few compiler language extensions in ick already? 14:24:51 as opposed to libraries in the language 14:24:59 IFFI and the C FFI obviously 14:25:04 threads iirc? 14:25:19 yeah, and even COME FROM is technically a C-INTERCAL extension 14:25:22 although it became standard 14:25:32 C-INTERCAL is the gcc of INTERCAL, really, if it does things they become standard 14:25:40 heh 14:25:53 you wield considerable power over a small group of people then ;P 14:26:12 Vorpal: yeah; it's hard to be in the top n of the world at pretty much everything 14:26:25 but luckily it doesn't take much dedication to become one of the world's top few INTERCAL programmers 14:26:27 where n is? ;P 14:26:47 I can be one of the top n anything, if n is large enough 14:27:07 where n is an appropriately-sized value :) 14:27:19 right 14:31:10 Note to self: don't try to IRC and Guitar Hero at the same time 14:31:15 Even on the really long notes 14:33:20 Taneb: you could map the guitar to keys on the keyboard 14:33:29 then you'd just have to find appropriate songs that let you play the sentences you wanted to type 14:34:19 alt. clear your mind and let your desires channel the spirit of guitar hero; fill #esoteric with beautiful rockin poetry 14:34:43 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:35:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:36:03 -!- nooga has joined. 14:37:09 i'm trying to find some resources on CPS and compiling functional languages 14:37:39 monqy, so here I lie 14:37:44 In the belly of a shark 14:37:47 So ---- cold 14:37:49 so ---- dark 14:39:11 A Facebook ad is inviting me to join the Freemasons. 14:39:41 Should MAAAAAYBE consider looking at my "religious views" info field before generating that ad. 14:41:25 Gregor: I'm not sure how precise the targeting is, in that respect 14:41:27 Should I choose ice cream salesman based on political beliefs 14:41:47 ais523: Clearly not enough. 14:41:51 Taneb: Yes. 14:42:13 Taneb: I thought you earlier said that there was only one ice cream shop in hexham, and it closed down 14:42:18 lol 14:42:41 ais523, no 14:42:46 The one I like is closing down 14:42:53 oh 14:42:56 And the handy ice cream van, the driver votes UKIP 14:43:05 Quite vocally 14:44:06 how does an ice cream man do vocal politics. that sounds like a bad idea 14:45:31 "Hey there little child, this ice cream bar costs 50p... and a secured UKIP vote from your parents." 14:45:48 "ice cream bar"? 14:45:57 a bar of ice cream 14:45:59 Gregor: do you not understand the concept of an ice cream van? 14:46:06 (do they even exist in the US?) 14:46:12 I guess they might have some for sale 14:46:17 ais523: Evidently not? I assume they are analogous to an ice cream truck? 14:46:27 but they mostly exist for dispensing icecream into cones directly out of a machine 14:46:36 Right, totally different thing here. 14:46:39 they drive around playgrounds and the like and play music so you know they're there 14:46:55 and park on beaches 14:47:06 Ice cream trucks in the US serve the same purpose but sell ice cream bars and various prepackaged nonsense. 14:47:11 I must say they sometimes use a bell rather than music 14:47:13 they also play music 14:47:17 The ice cream van that did the best ice cream in Hexham, the driver got arrested for drug dealing 14:47:30 Taneb: That's ALSO a tradition of American ice cream trucks! 14:47:37 (Reference: GTA: Vice City) 14:47:43 i've never seen an ice cream truck but i've heard them. i've also seen depictions of an ice cream truck in action 14:47:51 Taneb: ouch that's a bad combination 14:48:02 drug-laced ice cream? 14:48:15 Gregor: a typical ice cream van in the UK will have a small freezer containing a variety of prepackaged brand-name ice-cream just in case someone orders it 14:48:17 but it's not used often 14:48:46 ais523: Right, just imagine that that's the entire thing, and you've got the American analogue. 14:48:51 right 14:48:59 We don't like fresh things in America. 14:49:03 If it's not packaged, it's not food. 14:51:20 well, it's still not particularly fresh in that sense, they're still making it out of prepackaged artificial ice cream mix, rather than actual milk 14:52:23 do they have astronaut ice cream 14:52:46 I don't think so 14:53:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Ice_Cream_Wars 14:54:33 The conflicts, in which vendors raided one another's vans and fired shotguns into one another's windscreens, were more violent than might typically be expected between ice-cream salesmen. 14:54:48 “The conflicts, in which vendors raided one another's vans and fired shotguns into one another's windscreens, were more violent than might typically be expected between ice-cream salesmen.” 14:54:51 Oh 14:54:56 Hahah, we both quoted the same bit >_> 14:55:04 in the US the trucks generally have soft serve machines and also prepackaged ice cream novelties 14:56:00 gah, I've completely forgotten which side Phantom_Hoover is on the Glasgow vs. Edinburgh argument 14:56:15 ais523: The side with the least vowels. 14:56:22 (All True Scotsmen) 14:56:31 `quote Glasgow 14:56:33 459) Riots in Glasgow would probably be reported as a sudden drop in crime. \ 615) No you can't fight crime in Glasgow. It's like trying to get rid of the space-time continuum. \ 783) Phantom_Hoover, like Glasgow but nicer So, not like Glasgow at all 14:56:44 right 14:56:58 haha 14:57:06 `quote Edinburgh 14:57:08 No output. 15:04:56 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:08:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:10:23 -!- heroux has joined. 15:13:11 meh 15:13:31 I can't even buy "Lisp In Small Pieces" in Poland 15:16:24 -!- impomatic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:17:34 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:19:10 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:27:54 There's a single (I think US-style) ice cream truck company operating around here, but I think they've been cutting down the rounds, it's apparently not very profitable business any more. 15:28:45 I think we established on-channel that the ice cream truck melody is the same in here and in X, where X is somewhere not here, once. 15:35:01 http://www.mistersoftee.com/ is a famous ice cream truck franchise in NYC 15:35:21 their song is on that site 15:35:37 yes, the premise of this brand is that you are eating Mr. Softee's hair / brains 15:38:22 fizzie: there are multiple ice cream truck melodies in use in the UK 15:38:32 also, you live in Finland, doesn't it have enough ice already? 15:42:19 ais523: I understand they are more profitable in the summer, where even we have a few slightly warm days. 15:42:34 Though I think they are an all-year operation. 15:43:37 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:44:17 Possibly with a strongly pruned schedule in the winter. At least I don't remember having heard the tune in a while. 15:44:28 Could be they just dropped the nearby stop. 15:45:00 The website of the company running it doesn't have anything in English. 15:45:27 Also, apparently they sell (presumably frozen) pizzas now, too. 15:46:25 they microwave them in the truck? 15:46:28 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:47:08 microwaved pizzas? berk :( 15:48:31 -!- heroux has joined. 15:49:09 berk indeed 15:49:32 they're fine 15:49:49 in NYC there's a law that they can't play the music while not moving 15:49:52 however it's routinely ignored 15:51:22 Various Classes injured—Instruments of Torture—Encounters ; Servants, Beer-shops, Children, Ladies of elastic virtue—Effects on the Musical Profession—Retaliation — Police themselves disturbed—Invalids distracted—Horses run away—Children run over—A Cab-stand placed in tho Author's street attracts Organs—Mobs shouting out his Name— Threats to Burn his House—Disturbed in the middle of the night when very ill—An 15:55:29 Ladies of elastic virtue 15:58:06 What's a good length for a markov chain that generates text? 15:58:21 AnotherTest: you could try asking fungot 15:58:21 ais523: start hoi sir se control ki pura tym th0di na he mayo? 15:58:23 (text for a random babble AI bot) 15:58:32 I think it depends on your source material 15:58:38 fungot: What's your chain length? 15:58:38 AnotherTest: k d i vil nt so met some hadsome boys. i even told mark in my dream of my world without you... for about 3 minutes 15:58:48 ah 3 15:59:11 ais523: Source material will be previous messages 15:59:31 (In the context of IRC, that would mean what anyone says) 16:00:09 AnotherTest: fungot already has a ^style IRC; you could ask fizzie about the settings it uses 16:00:09 ais523: of course... you too!! please see your codes in flag to refer to ur own name? ya i also i since 1pm lo even worse. he's not around or just still asleep. i thought my dad wouldwake me up. last min gt reunion. i juz left house leh... ur thing end already 16:01:07 fizzie: what chain length do you use for fungot's markov chain? 16:01:07 AnotherTest: in. should i approach... james for studiow rental too, dat we took on ur camera with that. something like a statistic?.. the real word is sarcasm... .nt scarcasim zouk on 16:01:31 I must say fungot is pretty random... 16:01:31 AnotherTest: only one place can sit. i go sell txtbk on monday. thanks 16:02:45 AnotherTest: 3 to 5 characters is generally good 16:03:15 kmc: Do you mean words? 16:03:17 or maybe 2 words, if you want to do it by words 16:03:22 oh ok 16:03:24 AnotherTest: you can do it either way 16:03:32 Yes, that's true 16:03:45 I think words might give better results though 16:04:02 it depends on what kind of results you want 16:04:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:04:17 doing it by characters will make it generate a lot of non-words that are related to real words in an often humorous way 16:04:31 my markov chain program (http://hackage.haskell.org/package/detrospector) has a mode specifically to print such words 16:04:37 its name is an example of such a word 16:04:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:04:44 so it's also a convenient way to name software :) 16:05:03 Well, I want random looking results, but still in some way comprehensible 16:05:25 I still haven't figured a name for that function 16:05:29 you could have both chains and choose between them with some probability 16:05:36 what function Taneb? 16:05:52 kmc, for my Data.FamilyTree library 16:06:00 kmc: hm, that's actually a pretty interesting idea 16:06:09 Unifying traversePerson/traverseEvent/traverseFamily 16:06:38 Taneb: do you want 1 word for person event and family? 16:06:50 Perhaps 16:07:03 But I'd prefer one word for traversePerson and traverseFamily 16:07:05 "Something" 16:07:11 (I don't particularly care about events) 16:07:12 oh right 16:07:49 traversePersonOrFamilyOrEventButIDontParticluaryCareAboutThat 16:07:51 Thinking accessFt 16:07:54 well people and families are both vehicles in the dawkinsian sense 16:08:10 kmc, I can't exactly call them vehicles 16:08:14 nope 16:08:56 i2p broke :/ 16:09:09 java crap 16:09:28 AnotherTest: Variable. 16:09:49 AnotherTest: See https://github.com/vsiivola/variKN for details. 16:09:52 fizzie: ok 16:09:54 thanks 16:10:01 (It's the illest.) 16:11:13 * kmc googles Kneser-Ney smoothing, sees that the first page of hits is entirely PDFs 16:11:16 scary 16:11:51 We've got an agglutinative language -- up to some degree, anyway; it's not quite all that -- and we do our language models with unsupervised morpheme segmentation -- https://github.com/aalto-speech/morfessor also fancy -- so we occasionally need large model orders. 16:14:22 ^style irc 16:14:22 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 16:14:35 fungot: I think that's enough of you typing like a texting teenager. 16:14:36 fizzie: but soon, the university's cafeteria slowly kills my taste buds. 16:14:52 fungot: You don't even eat there; I do. 16:14:52 fizzie: " thanks." or "" would push those two characters are much of a headache right now 16:16:22 `run words --finnish 10 # I think this one does N=4 character N-grams? Or possibly trigrams. Longer than bigrams, anyway. 16:16:25 kurskymisempän kirityksensa kulmastuvillensa noudeksuaallani napausosiatyydemmilla ilmeiksiatereimpasi kynitaanne lopuvassanistaiseksy virkeimpiä saanillemalta 16:17:25 It doesn't do any cross-word modeling, though. 16:18:38 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:19:45 -!- heroux has joined. 16:19:54 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:33:46 pff, i2p wasn't down just ddos 16:34:07 I really don't see the point in taking down random things 16:35:33 It lets you feel like a real man, AIUI. 16:37:09 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:37:29 -!- heroux has joined. 16:46:13 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:58:04 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:58:46 -!- Bike has joined. 17:01:21 -!- heroux has joined. 17:13:42 -!- enapupe has joined. 17:13:53 -!- enapupe has left ("Leaving"). 17:17:39 -!- enapupe has joined. 17:17:51 -!- enapupe has left ("Leaving"). 17:29:00 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:29:06 -!- DH____ has joined. 17:31:22 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:33:13 -!- heroux has joined. 17:36:03 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:58:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:00:18 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 18:03:06 -!- heroux has joined. 18:03:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:06:28 -!- monqy has joined. 18:11:04 -!- nooga has joined. 18:13:04 -!- NuclearMeltdown has joined. 18:13:09 hi 18:13:20 What's the Freenode April fool's riddle thing about? 18:13:34 * Bike points at topic 18:13:52 Bike: I think NuclearMeltdown's been here before, it's OK 18:15:27 https://blog.freenode.net/2013/03/insert-witty-title-here < there that's what was sent to freenode users 18:15:56 Freenode always sets up a complex puzzle for april fools 18:16:32 It looks like brainfuck code 18:16:36 2013/03? look of disapproval 18:17:54 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:18:09 and yeah, it looks a lot like BF, rather loosely coded as well 18:18:09 -!- heroux has joined. 18:19:04 ais523: i think you may be mistaken about Bike's intentions 18:19:21 elliott: hmm 18:19:22 perhaps i am 18:19:24 *I am 18:19:24 It doesn't look like it takes any input. It just outputs "eprog" 18:19:28 can you suggest an alternative explanation? 18:24:04 wellI made it to the eprog channel 18:24:39 ais523: perhaps Bike can :P 18:25:10 nope, i'm clueless too 18:25:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:26:36 Bike: well it looked like ais523 was assuming the topic was helpful and you were trying to help NuclearMeltdown by saying that it's a channel about esolangs. 18:26:41 but actually you were trying to trick them!!!!!! 18:26:47 hopw this help 18:26:50 -!- heroux has joined. 18:27:19 elliott: no, I know the topic is useless 18:27:36 almost as useless as the channel 18:27:36 for both purposes, really (although it still has the link to the logs) 18:27:59 help 18:29:18 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1bfojn/functor_is_now_a_superclass_of_monad_in_ghc_head/ 18:30:34 is this an april's fool 18:31:20 The code in the file it links to does not have it like that 18:32:39 Damn, my plot was found out 18:34:31 need a better joke... something people would like... probably a joke about corporations 18:35:26 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:39:19 incidentally, Slashdot's april fools thing is completely not funny this year 18:39:26 although it's lead to some interesting discussion 18:39:46 also someone who recognised rot13 was a substitution cipher, but apparently not the specific cipher, and so solved it by hand 18:39:52 ais523, what is their joke? I never visit their site 18:40:22 Vorpal: articles are being rot13ed and you have to log in to be able to derot13 them without interstitial ads 18:40:28 in order to persuade people to log in 18:40:37 that's not very funny 18:40:37 (followed by at least four obviously fake stories, rot13ed) 18:40:42 that is just stupid 18:40:46 well yeah 18:42:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:42:39 slashdot's done some pretty good april 1 stuff in the past 18:42:51 I missed omg ponies, but it's apparently one of the best april fools things ever (and this is before ponies became a meme) 18:43:10 and the achievements thing was pretty good too 18:51:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:00:05 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:00:16 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:00:39 -!- augur has joined. 19:01:48 -!- heroux has joined. 19:07:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:13:20 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Nitronic Rush). 19:19:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:21:47 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 19:26:17 So, what exactly is the hash in the topic for? 19:26:51 ThatOtherPerson: confusing people who are trying to cheat in freenode's april fools quiz via /list 19:28:24 ais523: freenode has an April Fool's Day quiz? 19:28:30 Every year. 19:28:36 ThatOtherPerson: yes 19:28:39 https://blog.freenode.net/2013/03/insert-witty-title-here has the starting point. 19:28:50 Though I have no idea whether they're still awarding any cloaks? 19:28:53 Ah, thanks! 19:28:57 They had people who had solved it already, I think. 19:29:02 what kind of cloak do you get anyway 19:29:17 Perhaps it says "i/am/a/fool". 19:30:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:31:18 Should I put family-tree-4.0.0.0 on Hackage yet 19:32:12 A quick grep on all freenode logs reveals at least "april-fools/winner/thesecondest". 19:32:19 I suppose it'd be something like that. 19:32:27 Very prestigious, I'm sure. 19:33:20 (Uh, that is, "all of my personal logs that are from the freenode network", not "all freenode traffic ever".) 19:34:05 There's also a april-fools/winner/bjoern and that's all cloaks in my logs that contain the string "fool". Except for colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut, but that's probably not quiz-related. 19:34:24 No year in it. :/ 19:36:25 april fools class of 2013 19:37:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:40:43 i seem to have forgotten to read the logs yesterday 19:41:14 april fool's 19:41:36 monqy: wait do you mean March 30 didn't exist? 19:41:44 *31 19:43:46 an elaborate ruse 19:44:15 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:44:31 darn now monqy stopped existing too 19:45:00 oerjan, should I upload family-tree 4.0.0.0 to Hackage? 19:45:16 Or even 0.4.0.0 19:45:19 oerjan: yes, march 31 was cancelled this year, they didn't have the budget for it 19:45:34 Yesterday was cancelled due to lack of interest 19:45:44 The pendulums were held and the clocks reset 19:46:28 Have I done enough in this community to warrant my own page on the wiki <-- i think you've done more than i had when i made my own page 19:46:48 you have more esolangs, although probably not as many programs in them. 19:47:04 oerjan is notable because he is a wiki admin 19:47:07 Taneb: i don't have an opinion on family-tree 19:47:48 Taneb: although i think most people encourage uploading early and often 19:48:10 ais523: i'll just read the elaborate ruse then. 19:48:15 by the time you finish reading this sentence edwardk has uploaded 27 additional package versions 19:48:54 elliott: i am? yay! 19:49:27 elliott: have you passed me in number of edits yet? 19:49:29 -!- Mathnerd314 has changed nick to Mathnerd626. 19:49:34 "You hear someone cursing shoplifters" <-- did NetHack just say that or am I sleeping? 19:49:41 oerjan: hm good question. let me see if i can remember the query for that 19:50:01 oerjan: also, yay? keep that up and you'll end up really being a wiki admin. 19:50:14 * oerjan living dangerously 19:50:56 I don't like writing about myself, gah 19:51:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:52:02 oerjan: 19:52:03 | Oerjan | 2388 | 19:52:03 | Ehird | 1734 | 19:52:09 huh 19:52:16 probably closer if you merge in my previous accounts 19:52:39 cpressey has edited more than ais523, surprisingly 19:52:49 doesn't surprise me 19:53:06 I tend to make large single edits when writing about languages 19:53:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:53:48 i also make large single edits... 19:54:10 since i don't like taking over most of recent changes 19:54:25 i do lots of previews though. 19:55:19 april fooles joke: preview buton saves the page 19:55:41 elliott: that fools the wrong person, i'm afraid 19:55:44 April fooles megajoke: preview baton deletes the page? 20:00:54 Can I, like, get one of you guys to right a page about me on the wiki 20:01:10 I can wrong one 20:01:35 You don't understand 20:01:43 All the pages about me on the wiki are slanty 20:04:37 elliott: What we need is a template that turns the "rn" in Nathan van Doorn into an animation that cycles between rn and m. 20:05:11 only then can a proper page be made. 20:05:30 it might also contain small explosions. 20:05:39 oerjan: how about it always says "rn", but has really bad keming. 20:05:47 elliott: OKAY 20:07:41 oerjan: btw you have to update the wiki for me 20:07:52 ic. 20:08:01 sic transit gloria wiki 20:09:32 google actually made that a suggestion when i typed the 'w'. sadly only about 9 hits. 20:09:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:10:21 probably people wanting to look it up on WP 20:10:43 it looks like a _lot_ of phrases work that way. 20:10:51 -!- augur has joined. 20:11:33 i get "elliott wiki" as the last suggestion on the "wi" 20:12:15 thats my true name 20:12:18 similarly for oerjan, although it turns oe to ø 20:13:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:13:02 I'd like to know an operation whose functionally completeness is unknown 20:13:07 elliott wiki, school. 20:14:04 i'm wondering if he means boolean completeness (in which case the answer is that it cannot be unknown as it's easy to check) or lambda calculus completeness 20:14:37 (also wondering if he knows what he means) 20:14:43 probably the former. he was trying to make a language based around that last time. 20:14:48 aha 20:15:04 just allow the operation to be uncomputable 20:15:10 case on RH, perhaps 20:15:13 i think i saw a reddit post about it recently 20:15:48 elliott: um a boolean function of booleans in the usual sense cannot be uncomputable. 20:16:07 oerjan: well if you case on whether RH is true or not then it's more that you don't know which of two functions it is. 20:16:09 it has, after all, a finite truth table 20:16:20 oh i guess. 20:16:24 that doesn't mean we know what the truth table is 20:18:02 the question then is whether we know the operation if we don't know its truth table. 20:18:30 quite philosophical. 20:18:58 oerjan: well it's a case of, if you define the function as its truth table, then you know what the truth table is classically, but not constructively. 20:19:28 IOW, the function only exists classically (unless you can decide RH, obviously) 20:24:29 mhm 20:26:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:27:57 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:30:54 Okay, now I have on my computer some HTML with naught but a h1 and a script switching the text of the h1 back and forth between "Nathan van Doorn" and "Nathan van Doom" 20:32:31 yay? 20:34:58 I wonder if it could be done with CSS rather than JavaScript 20:34:59 If I type "fizzie w", Google suggests I'm looking for a "fizzy wiki". 20:35:26 I get "tneb webmail" 20:36:24 Ooh, are you named after the Tamil Nadu Electricity Board? 20:37:48 I don't get any suggestions :( 20:44:32 -!- augur has joined. 20:47:05 -!- lahwran has changed nick to lahwran-. 20:47:07 -!- lahwran- has changed nick to lahwran. 20:49:36 Taneb: maybe the bad keming version could be made with just css. 20:50:54 i think running actual scripts might require elliott to do something. 20:52:48 as for css, i don't know enough of it to be sure 20:54:25 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 20:56:49 Doorn. With the right K. Possibly fractional. Possibly also some other unit. 20:57:32 Making a robustly bad keming across a variety of devices and renderers and fonts left as an exercise. 20:57:39 EEK 20:57:54 (that was to the second line) 20:58:44 surely em/ex would be better than px in terms of working across fonts, do css support that? 20:58:49 O_o 20:58:52 Yes and yes. 20:59:02 Teh internetz has turned into a battleground 20:59:11 And I guess a "both" too, for good matter. 20:59:15 -0.1em looks good 20:59:25 Where "good" means "bad"? 20:59:30 Precisely 21:00:34 ThatOtherPerson, Tumblr seems to have turned into naught but pictures of Misha Collins 21:01:05 The epic battle of XKCD vs. Wikipedia is currently ongoing 21:01:48 21:02:04 (Protected List of fictional ducks: xkcd ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (expires 09:01, 2 April 2013 (UTC)) [Move=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (expires 09:01, 2 April 2013 (UTC)))) 21:02:28 ok 21:03:15 ok i made http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nathan_van_Doorn 21:04:11 i think the bold in the introduction looks good, the actual title could be wider? 21:04:54 -0.05 looks better there except has a slight gap between r and n 21:05:35 Nathan von Doom 21:05:38 My nemesis 21:05:57 hm it seems like my browser doesn't distinguish -0.05, -0.04 and -0.03 much 21:06:23 Those are very small differences. 21:06:32 oh wait 21:07:09 i was decreasing when i should be increasing 21:07:34 darn edit conflict you rascals 21:07:35 Taneb: was that last edit you 21:07:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:07:53 I... don't think so 21:07:54 One thing that might make those values quantized is that some systems might also be rounding something to pixel boundaries to avoid fuzzy edges, I understand that happens. 21:08:15 Taneb: was it one of your adoring fans 21:08:23 It very well may have been 21:08:35 I have more followers on Tumblr than Phantom_Hoover 21:08:36 -0.06 seemed best for me 21:09:26 oerjan: older title space was better on my system fwiw 21:09:32 like there is a noticeable space now 21:09:33 elliott: darn 21:10:27 http://etc.firefly.nu/tmp/keming.html 21:10:47 * FireFly wants ::nth-letter(linearexpression) 21:11:35 elliott: what about now? -0.08 21:12:27 Currently it looks like 'm' to me FWIW 21:12:34 oerjan: I deem this acceptable 21:12:39 i could increase to -0.09 if necessary, -0.1 is when it starts looking really fishy in my browser 21:12:44 oerjan: as a reward you will become a wiki admin. 21:12:51 ok then we make this stand 21:13:18 FireFly: excellent 21:13:20 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:13:26 -!- jix has joined. 21:13:37 There's a gap in the header even in the latest version for me, but really, too much fiddling. Unless you go the FireFly route. 21:14:10 wat. 21:14:50 Oh, I was assuming it actually used the positions of the individual letters to adjust it. 21:14:58 I guess it doesn't. 21:15:09 Not really, no 21:15:33 fizzie: was the original -0.1 version without a gap for you? 21:16:14 I'm not sure if I saw it. (For the reference, currently https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130401-DOOM.png like this.) 21:20:50 By the magic of Inspect Element, I've determined that for my system, it needs a letter-spacing of -0.117em or lower to be gapless, but that's probably going to break it for someone else. 21:21:15 (Also the shapes look quite clunky even when the balls are touching.) 21:21:44 fizzie: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan_van_Doorn&oldid=35927 21:21:52 well naturally. 21:22:45 It seems that -0.1em and -0.08em and even -0.116em all are identical for me. But best not to fiddle for me, I think. 21:23:20 ok 21:24:55 ok now there's a basic page, others may add more if they deem appropriate (which i may remove if i deem inappropriate.) 21:25:04 Hrm. I've spent the whole Easter idly wondering why my MDCS parallel run is still in the queue. Now I went to check for the queue, and it wasn't there; just MATLAB hadn't noticed. The logfile indicates ssh said "WARNING: Your password has expired. Password change required but no TTY available." and died, and of course MATLAB never noticed a thing. 21:26:32 "connected to 44 labs." well won't you look at that. 21:26:37 (The stupid.) 21:26:48 oops the non-bold looks weird. 21:28:25 Taneb: your missing doctorate is just a formality, right? 21:28:45 Taneb: ok wtf http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan_van_Doorn&curid=8848&diff=35930&oldid=35929 21:28:51 did you link that page somewhere or something 21:28:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 21:29:25 oerjan: btw you forgot [[Category:People]] hth 21:29:35 i did already remove those bits btw. although i was ambivalent on the awesome part. 21:29:51 elliott, I am confused probably more than you 21:29:54 oerjan, of course 21:30:03 elliott: oops 21:30:59 NetRange: 108.171.107.0 - 108.171.107.255. CustName: Black Oak Computers Inc - Miami. 21:31:41 Some sort of cheapo VPS provider. 21:32:05 Well, the "has a cheap VPS" predicate isn't an especially limiting one. 21:32:46 (I'm having slight doubts about the reliability of a provider calling itself ReliableHosting.com.) 21:33:24 unreliablehosting.com 21:33:40 well, ,there you'd just assume they were being ironic 21:34:04 it means they can lie about it, again and again, hth 21:34:29 oerjan: ... 21:34:32 oerjan: op me. I need to kick you 21:34:37 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 21:34:44 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +o elliott. 21:34:59 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o elliott. 21:35:02 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 21:35:09 apparently not urgently enough. 21:35:19 oerjan: hey hey give me a minute. 21:35:23 i was typing a line in another channel. 21:35:25 SORRY 21:35:32 you have to be patient. 21:35:37 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 21:35:40 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +o elliott. 21:35:40 btw you can do /msg chanserv op #esoteric elliott to do it in one step. 21:35:44 -!- elliott has kicked oerjan oerjan. 21:35:45 You'd have to be a patient to believe elliott. 21:35:50 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o Taneb. 21:35:52 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 21:35:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:36:01 all hail Taneb. 21:36:08 * Bike bows 21:36:08 * oerjan blinks 21:36:31 * FireFly dances 21:36:37 feels very assuring to have taneb watching over us imo 21:36:43 * ThatOtherPerson doth boweth in an elegant and courtly fashion 21:37:21 doth is second person....... 21:37:37 Yes 21:37:45 -!- mb06cs has left ("**pouf**"). 21:37:49 Bike: um no it isn't. 21:37:52 And boweth is not a word 21:38:01 -th is 3rd person. 21:38:10 But I just said it is. Why would I say it is if it wasn't true? 21:38:12 i suppose "doth" could somehow weirdly be both. 21:38:31 Bike: well look at the date... 21:39:03 oh shit...! 21:39:43 `! 21:39:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: !: not found 21:40:10 `which ? 21:40:11 ​/hackenv/bin/? 21:40:25 "In older forms of English, when the pronoun thou was in active use and verbs had a distinct second-person singular present-tense form, the verb do had two such forms: dost, in helping-verb uses, and doest, in other uses. (Naturally, these are both now archaic, though doest is less common than dost even as an archaism.)" 21:40:30 `cat /hackenv/bin/? 21:40:32 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; 21:40:43 I don't yet have anything of how quantum operators are called and so on 21:40:45 `! should be like `? except with more forceful opinions on matters. 21:40:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: !: not found 21:41:08 `cat bin/WELCOME 21:41:10 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' 21:41:29 I see where this is going. 21:42:03 `? ngevd 21:42:04 `run cp bin/WELCOME bin/'!'; sed -i 's/welcome/\\!/' bin/'!' 21:42:05 ​!`DETAk{݇H^O75Idp6{΅hdHg(P/.KY#qaާK;`GæC.R(Oya|f~n,jK,ɾN?I?SaNszt_-fߪ ))́ϒz?%TV]8|T1H`m߲&CjA5n嗣Aد¶O!8UX/QUwP`cX4ŤB|y?>ㄭ"m| 21:42:08 No output. 21:42:16 `cat bin/! 21:42:18 ​#!/bin/sh \ \! "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' 21:42:18 Taneb: ... 21:42:22 oerjan: It does not sound useful for ! to call !... 21:42:28 fizzie: oops 21:42:38 `! hi 21:42:40 `cat bin/welcome 21:42:42 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 21:42:52 ​/hackenv/bin/!: 2: Cannot fork 21:42:56 good 21:43:08 `revert 21:43:10 Done. 21:43:21 `cat bin/! 21:43:22 cat: bin/!: No such file or directory 21:43:44 `ngevd 21:43:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ngevd: not found 21:43:46 `run cp bin/WELCOME bin/'!'; sed -i 's/welcome/\\?/' bin/'!' 21:43:47 No output. 21:43:59 `! ngevd 21:44:01 Y31BR.)K؀=.AO2&4_௜~KPF(I 21:44:02 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:44:08 `! FireFly 21:44:10 FIREFLY ? ¯\(°_O)/¯ 21:44:16 (°_O) 21:44:18 `! elliott 21:44:19 Nice eye 21:44:20 ELLIOTT WROTE THIS LEARN DB, AND WROTE OR IMPROVED MANY OF THE OTHER COMMANDS IN THIS BOT. HE PROBABLY HAS DONE OTHER THINGS? HE IS ALSO TIRE. AND A LYSTROSAUR. 21:44:40 `! should probably also substitute all dots with exclamation marks 21:44:42 SHOULD PROBABLY ALSO SUBSTITUTE ALL DOTS WITH EXCLAMATION MARKS? ¯\(°_O)/¯ 21:44:57 maybe. 21:45:12 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:15 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:45:32 -!- carado has joined. 21:47:27 `! c 21:47:29 C IS THE LANGUAGE OF��V�>WIד�.��SEGMENTATION FAULT 21:47:36 `! c++ 21:47:36 `sed -i 's#$# | sed -e s/[.?]/\!/g' bin/\! # I'll probably ruin it 21:47:38 C++? ¯\(°_O)/¯ 21:47:38 Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script- 21:47:46 `run sed -i 's#$# | sed -e s/[.?]/\!/g' bin/\! # I'll probably ruin it 21:47:48 sed: -e expression #1, char 25: unterminated `s' command 21:47:56 `run sed -i 's#$# | sed -e s/[.?]/\!/g#' bin/\! # I'll probably ruin it 21:47:58 No output. 21:48:05 `cat bin/! 21:48:06 ​#!/bin/sh | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g \ \? "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g 21:48:13 ... 21:48:19 `revert 21:48:20 Done. 21:48:28 `run sed -i '2s#$# | sed -e s/[.?]/\!/g#' bin/\! # I'll probably ruin it 21:48:29 No output. 21:48:32 `cat bin/! 21:48:34 ​#!/bin/sh | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g \ \? "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g 21:48:48 How did that happen, with an address and all. 21:49:04 the revert didn't revert? 21:49:06 Oh, I guess I didn't actually revert anything. 21:49:43 `run sed -i 's/ | sed.*//' bin/! 21:49:45 No output. 21:49:46 um or you reverted something _else_. 21:49:47 `cat bin/! 21:49:48 ​#!/bin/sh \ \? "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' 21:50:14 `run sed -i '2s#$# | sed -e s/[.?]/\!/g#' bin/\! # I'll DEFINITELY ruin it 21:50:15 No output. 21:50:18 oerjan: You win some, you lose some. 21:50:22 `! monad 21:50:24 MONADS ARE JUST MONOIDS IN THE CATEGORY OF ENDOFUNCTORS! 21:50:29 Good enough. 21:50:39 Gregor: argh something is wrong with the repository browser 21:50:48 `! thing 21:50:50 THING! ¯\(°_O)/¯ 21:51:01 `! dcpu 21:51:03 DCPU! ¯\(°_O)/¯ 21:51:18 Oh right 21:51:19 it doesn't show anything after my first bin/! change attempt 21:51:24 That's where I recognize your nick from 21:54:28 And vice versa 21:55:04 `cat bin/! 21:55:05 ​#!/bin/sh \ \? "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g 21:55:19 well that looks right anyway 21:55:52 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:56:10 FireFly: I've given up on #0x10c-dev for now, and am loitering around here instead 21:56:25 `run echo snerk >test 21:56:29 No output. 21:56:40 The first part seems to apply to Notch as well 21:56:44 _that_ got into the repository. 21:56:47 Because it's full of smart people and I am marginally interested in esoteric languages 21:57:06 could it be... 21:57:44 `run sed -i 's/|/| /' bin/'!' 21:57:47 No output. 21:57:51 `cat bin/! 21:57:53 ​#!/bin/sh \ \! "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' 21:58:16 nope, that did show up fine... 21:58:18 `revert 21:58:21 Done. 21:58:57 @tell Gregor the repository browser isn't showing fizzie's changes to bin/! 21:58:58 Consider it noted. 22:00:00 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:00:14 wtf 22:00:18 `cat bin/! 22:00:19 ​#!/bin/sh \ \! "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' 22:01:17 Huh. 22:01:18 @tell Gregor it got worse, after i did a change, fizzie's changes disappeared D: 22:01:18 Consider it noted. 22:02:16 `run sed -i '2s#$# | sed -e s/[.?]/\!/g#' bin/\! # Testing fizzie's last command 22:02:21 No output. 22:02:28 I think it just doesn't like me. :/ :\ 22:02:33 `cat bin/! 22:02:34 ​#!/bin/sh \ \! "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g 22:02:52 hm that may be, as that did show up 22:02:59 `! fizzie 22:03:11 ​/hackenv/bin/!: 2: Cannot fork \ /hackenv/bin/!: 2: Cannot fork 22:03:12 oh darn 22:03:27 fizzie: actually it also forgot my own changes. 22:04:04 `run sed -i '2s/!/?/' bin/'!' 22:04:07 No output. 22:04:13 Old age doesn't come alone. 22:04:13 `cat bin/! 22:04:15 ​#!/bin/sh \ \? "$@" | perl -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g 22:04:19 `! fizzie 22:04:22 FIZZIE IS RUMOURED TO BE WRITTEN IN FUNGE-98! 22:05:26 `! Taneb 22:05:28 TANEB IS NOT ELLIOTT, NO MATTER WHO YOU ASK! HE ALSO ISN'T A RABBI ALTHOUGH HE HAS PRETENDED IN THE PAST! (SEE ALSO: D-MODULES) 22:06:15 `! ThatOtherPerson 22:06:17 THATOTHERPERSON! ¯\(°_O)/¯ 22:07:26 I simply do not exist. 22:08:15 The <@Taneb> looks kind of confusing. 22:08:55 it's reminding us. 22:09:03 Wait 22:09:09 When did that happen 22:09:37 our impending doom is a little absent minded 22:09:41 Half an hour or so ago. 22:12:48 `! välkommen 22:12:50 HEJ OCH VäLKOMMEN TILL DEN INTERNATIONELLA KNUTPUNKTEN FöR DESIGN OCH DISTRIBUTION AV ESOTERISKA PROGRAMSPRåK! FöR MER INFORMATION, SE VåR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS!ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE! (FöR DEN ANDRA SORTENS ESOTERISM, PRöVA #ESOTERIC På IRC!DAL!NET!) 22:13:11 IRC! DAL! NET! 22:14:30 please fix the unicode there :( 22:14:35 as in, it should be capitalising all letters, not just [a-z]. 22:14:36 > length "Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php" 22:14:38 52 22:14:53 > length "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" 22:14:55 54 22:15:17 > length "Poochiewuddledumpling-Boobledarling" 22:15:19 35 22:15:33 `which uc 22:15:34 No output. 22:15:35 Taneb conducts vital operator research 22:15:44 er oh, it was a perl thing 22:16:05 ^list 22:16:05 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 22:17:14 `run perl -e 'print(uc "räksmörgås")' 22:17:15 RäKSMöRGåS 22:17:17 ˇlist 22:17:58 ThatOtherPerson, ^list means Homestuck update 22:18:29 OH 22:18:30 :D 22:18:49 some people here might be interested in this http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 22:19:11 :o 22:19:52 :o 22:19:55 I've seen that site before, back when I didn't know any C 22:20:01 @tell kmc http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 22:20:01 Consider it noted. 22:20:01 Now I know 1 C 22:20:30 doesn't kmc know about that already 22:20:36 or is that the joke 22:20:51 there's a new one 22:23:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 22:23:44 @tell ThatOtherPerson http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 22:23:44 You can tell yourself! 22:23:49 :/ 22:25:57 `run sed -i 's/perl/perl -C7/' bin/\! 22:26:01 No output. 22:26:02 `! välkommen 22:26:04 HEJ OCH VÄLKOMMEN TILL DEN INTERNATIONELLA KNUTPUNKTEN FÖR DESIGN OCH DISTRIBUTION AV ESOTERISKA PROGRAMSPRÅK! FÖR MER INFORMATION, SE VÅR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS!ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE! (FÖR DEN ANDRA SORTENS ESOTERISM, PRÖVA #ESOTERIC PÅ IRC!DAL!NET!) 22:27:06 `! tervetuloa 22:27:08 TERVETULOA: ASK SHACHAF 22:27:14 I see. 22:27:42 wow, the underhanded results from the 2009 contest are really cool 22:27:49 the winner's is just so sneaky 22:27:55 Indeed 22:27:59 The older ones are also nice 22:28:17 Was 2009 the airport luggage thing? 22:28:29 Yeah 22:28:48 -!- nooga has joined. 22:30:03 wait did they name the winners today 22:30:06 four years later 22:30:24 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 22:30:38 Seems so 22:30:41 i love things that seem to have no conception of time 22:31:01 `cat bin/\! 22:31:02 cat: bin/\!: No such file or directory 22:31:03 like @ and feather? 22:31:09 `cat bin/1 22:31:10 cat: bin/1: No such file or directory 22:31:13 `cat bin/! 22:31:14 ​#!/bin/sh \ \? "$@" | perl -C7 -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g 22:31:31 -!- nooodl__ has changed nick to nooodl. 22:31:38 oh wow 22:31:45 RHays's is pretty nice indeed 22:31:59 -!- azaq23 has joined. 22:32:39 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:32:53 `run sed -i 's:sed.*:sed -e "s/[.?]( |$)/!\1/g"' 22:32:55 sed: -e expression #1, char 34: unterminated `s' command 22:33:11 `run sed -i 's:sed.*:sed -e "s/[.?]( |$)/!\1/g":' 22:33:12 sed: -e expression #1, char 35: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS 22:33:21 gah. 22:33:26 `run sed -i 's:sed.*:sed -e "s/[.?]( |$)/!\\1/g":' 22:33:28 sed: no input files 22:33:35 `run sed -i 's:sed.*:sed -e "s/[.?]( |$)/!\\1/g":' bin/\! 22:33:38 No output. 22:33:44 `! välkommen 22:33:46 sed: -e expression #1, char 17: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS 22:33:53 `revert 22:33:55 Done. 22:33:58 :( 22:34:17 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:34:22 I think it's hokay even with mid-dot changes. 22:34:35 (But you wanted \( \) there, for sed.) 22:34:43 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 22:34:57 (Oh, and \|.) 22:35:22 Oh, BRE 22:35:45 I thought it'd be nice to at least fix the URLs 22:35:57 They're more forceful that way. 22:36:13 is the unicode fixed yet 22:36:18 Sure. 22:36:19 yes 22:36:27 Post dot-coms, it's the era of shout-coms. 22:36:40 I guess we have to register ESOLANGS!ORG as a TLD 22:37:16 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Excess Flood). 22:37:18 I hear voices on my computer 22:37:27 godspeed you! esolangs 22:37:28 I have no idea where they are coming from 22:37:32 And IRC!DAL!NET too? 22:37:37 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:37:56 fizzie: obviously the other esotericians should register that. 22:38:16 I think it's up to dalnet if they want to be reachable under that name 22:38:32 ah maybe 22:39:02 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 22:39:21 it's like an old uunet bangpath! or whatever that was 22:40:46 uucp 22:40:46 kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 22:41:15 elliott: woah underhanded C contest is back 22:41:21 thanks for the heads up 22:41:28 no problem kmc ANY TIME 22:41:40 any time in the last four years 22:41:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:42:23 eventually I will remind kmc of all the things 22:42:28 and he will be so in my debt 22:42:30 and then I will um 22:42:31 kmc, help I'm op 22:42:33 well I haven't thought that far yet 22:43:16 Taneb: hello i'm bear 22:43:30 who's opping? bear is opping 22:43:46 -!- Taneb has kicked kmc I can't bear bears. 22:44:01 Taneb knows true justice 22:44:18 prediction: kmc never comes back 22:44:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:44:52 -!- kmc has joined. 22:45:02 rarrrr 22:45:10 dammit kmc you disproved my prediction 22:45:11 `addquote prediction: kmc never comes back * kmc has joined #esoteric 22:45:12 Gregor: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 22:45:15 1005) prediction: kmc never comes back * kmc has joined #esoteric 22:45:33 http://pbfcomics.com/37/ 22:45:49 kmc: you saw http://www.updrafters.com/PBF/ right 22:46:04 no 22:46:13 ok well you have now 22:46:41 i've seen it; i can't un-see it 22:46:59 this thing almost fooled me into believing it's kickstarter 22:47:40 oh it's not a knock-off, it's a stupid day 22:47:55 http://www.updrafters.com/about/about.html cool 22:48:14 "Aquatic Journeys: The Wet Dreams of Neil Gaiman" no yeah best parody of kickstarter since kickkstriker 22:48:27 best parody of kickstarter since kickstarter 22:48:37 yes 22:51:35 the neil gaiman one is a 404 :'( 22:51:42 “Ransom your art” lol 23:06:33 ~eval fold [Sum 1] 23:06:46 metasepia... 23:11:12 > fold [Sum 1] 23:11:14 Sum {getSum = 1} 23:14:29 -!- elliott_ has joined. 23:14:46 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:15:42 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:16:00 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:16:25 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 23:16:55 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 23:17:50 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:19:32 AnotherTest, freenode has a first of April quiz, we were/are trolling the guys who try to cheat by looking in /list. 23:20:02 (1) it's not a first april quiz, but an easter egg hunt in the american tradition. 23:20:07 (2) you are spoiling. 23:20:41 oerjan: it is 1st april-related 23:20:46 the cloak they give out mentions april fools 23:20:50 elliott: oh 23:20:54 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:24 -!- Koen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:25 -!- oonbotti has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:25 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:25 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:26 they started it before april 1 in any western timezones though 23:21:28 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:29 -!- lahwran has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:29 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:21:32 btw freenode is very unstable right now. 23:21:38 you don't say. 23:21:58 -!- Taneb has set channel mode: -o Taneb. 23:22:00 oerjan: "Like every year, we would like to invite our users to take part in the April 1st quiz and have the chance to win an April Fools’ cloak." 23:22:02 That feels better 23:22:08 Taneb: nooo! 23:22:12 I feel so empty 23:22:22 Taneb: wait wait you needed to kick me for being wrong! 23:22:36 oh well too late now. 23:22:37 oerjan, it is okay 23:22:42 You were right all along 23:23:19 -!- myndzi has quit (Quit: .). 23:23:34 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:23:53 also (2) still doth apply 23:24:28 -!- hagb4rdoux has joined. 23:24:42 -!- lahwran- has joined. 23:24:44 -!- myndzi has joined. 23:25:57 oerjan: if you op me i'll take care of it 23:26:25 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:26:31 TOO LATE NOW I SAID 23:27:33 -!- nooga has joined. 23:27:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:27:52 -!- oklofok has joined. 23:30:05 -!- monqy has joined. 23:30:06 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:30:41 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:30:46 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:32:12 oerjan: https://github.com/ekmett/free/issues/15 23:32:26 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:32:37 O_O 23:33:00 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:33:00 * oerjan does a little dance 23:33:39 oh hm 23:33:56 i was linking it for the crushing edwardk criticism, of course. 23:34:15 i saw the title and thought that meant it had been changed D: 23:34:31 although i actually knew the issue he mentions 23:35:42 oh well fleeting fame 23:38:25 eek reddit inventory 23:38:30 -!- pib1999 has joined. 23:40:04 I suck at TF2 23:40:11 Both the hats and the FPS minigame 23:40:22 `relcome pib1999 23:40:25 ​pib1999: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:42:01 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 23:44:07 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 23:47:30 `cat bin/relcome 23:47:31 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainbow 23:47:38 `cat bin/rainbow 23:47:40 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import random \ import re \ w=raw_input() \ p=list('x'*len(w)+'C'*int((341-len(w))/3+1)) \ random.shuffle(p) \ p=list(re.sub('C+','C',''.join(p))) \ i=(c for c in w) \ print ''.join(i.next() if c=='x' else chr(3)+'%02d' % random.randrange(2,15) for c in ['C']+p) 23:49:47 http://clochure.org/ 23:50:49 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:51:21 G'night, guys 23:51:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:51:52 girl genius hasn't updated :/ 23:54:31 http://187.65.193.132:8080/anoncollab/projects.php 23:57:12 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:58:03 -!- elliott_ has joined. 23:58:58 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:59:11 GOMADWarrior: from trolling #haskell to spamming offtopic links here...? 23:59:35 it's not offtopic 23:59:35 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 23:59:47 since languages are projects 2013-04-02: 00:02:33 Today's Comments on a Postcard is somewhat odd 00:02:34 darn 00:03:08 How's the pbf kickstarter going? 00:03:32 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4708 00:04:04 @tell taneb Yesterday's COAP looks very much like Shaenon K. Garrity drew it 00:04:05 Consider it noted. 00:04:12 Sgeo: is this about Bike's link. 00:04:32 coap? 00:04:39 as far as I know the only PBF-related kickstarter was the one to erase the US national debt, and it failed 00:04:46 elliott, depends. Am I a future psychic? 00:04:52 imo yes 00:05:10 Oh, it's not a kickstarter, it's an ... updrafter 00:05:27 it's an april fools joke 00:05:57 I know it's an April Fools Joke, but I thought it was a real joke Kickstarter 00:06:15 sgeo. dude. *puts my arm around your shoulder* did you watch the video? did you notice the rewards? it's okay man. it's okay, we're here for you in this time of need for you and your perceptual capabilities 00:06:57 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:07:02 I noticed the rewards. I thought it was a piece of silliness put on actual Kickstarter 00:08:21 I didn't notice the video 00:11:00 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:11:16 *removes arm from shoulder* 00:12:09 @tell taneb Also Egypt _is_ vaguely near Ethiopia, so something is clearly horribly wrong there 00:12:09 Consider it noted. 00:13:42 Sgeo: you should check your purse hth 00:14:45 oerjan, idgi 00:15:28 Sgeo: that Bike character looks quite shady 00:15:47 Ah 00:15:57 * Bike slowly pedals himself away 00:17:06 wait. Bike has arms 00:17:56 actually it's just the one 00:18:00 elliott: i _told_ you he was shady 00:18:00 thanks for reminding me, asshole 00:23:10 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:23:48 -!- kallisti has joined. 00:23:48 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 00:23:48 -!- kallisti has joined. 00:36:59 -!- Bike has joined. 00:58:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:58:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:02:11 -!- hagb4rdoux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:19:16 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. 01:19:22 I'm finally starting to understand the Nexus thing. 01:19:43 Google is taking an interesting approach to being manufacturer-neutral by having their "first party" product line be made by /several/ manufacturers. 01:19:45 ^ul (H)S((m)S:^):^ 01:19:45 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ...too much output! 01:20:07 LG, Asus and Samsung all manufacturing Android devices under the same brand name… 01:23:10 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:29:26 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:29:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:38:49 -!- Jafet has joined. 01:39:42 `? tervetuloa 01:39:42 -!- lahwran- has changed nick to lahwran. 01:39:44 tervetuloa: ask shachaf 01:39:54 imo ask fizzie 01:39:59 shachaf: tervetuloa? 01:40:07 oerjan: ask ion 01:40:16 ion: tervetuloa? 01:41:25 oerjan: 01:41:27 t̵̤̠̰̫͔̼̣͔̘̥̪͕̳̫̼̪͉͍͆̇̇ͧ́̎ͦ̄͂ͥ̊̇̚̕͠e̝͖͉̮̙͖̠͇̘͇̊ͪ̆͆ͩ̇̓ͥ̑̏̊ͯ͟r̸̛̒͌̌̒́̐̆͒͒̀͏̻̹̪̣v̺̪̯͉͎̱̜͚͎̖͙̞͕̗̙̱ͬ̿̈́ͦͥ͒͢͟ͅe̡̧̞̼̭̘̱̪̣̪̘̤͎̣̜ͮ̈́ͫ̓͌̾̐ͫ̈͞t̛ͨͪ̉ͦ̇̊ͫͮ͑̿͂̃ͯ̄́̀͢͏̷̦̰̠̮u̵̝̜̣̱̮͎̳͔̳̳͙̮ͥ͋̏̂ͧͬ̌̈́̿́͘l͋ͦͩͮ͏̷̧̦̝̳̩̭̕o̴̷͖̘ͨ̇ͪͭ̐ͬ̀͑ͯ̒̕ 01:41:29 ̣̺͖͈̺̰̣͈̞̪̠̯̱͔͕a͍̭͚̹͉̖̯̣͉͈͑̅̇͋ͨ͐͑ͪͮͮ̈́̈́͂̚̚͠͡ͅͅ 01:41:38 I wonder why WeeChat keeps splitting these to multiple lines? 01:41:59 It was a single line in the input line before i hit return. 01:42:17 it is clearly too much for a single line to handle 01:42:46 Oh, perhaps these actually don’t fit to the maximum IRC command length. 01:43:02 ion: wtf did you do to my screen :( 01:43:19 t̵̤̠̰̫͔̼̣͔̘̥̪͕̳̫̼̪͉͍͆̇̇ͧ́̎ͦ̄͂ͥ̊̇̚̕͠e̝͖͉̮̙͖̠͇̘͇̊ͪ̆͆ͩ̇̓ͥ̑̏̊ͯ͟r̸̛̒͌̌̒́̐̆͒͒̀͏̻̹̪̣v̺̪̯͉͎̱̜͚͎̖͙̞͕̗̙̱ͬ̿̈́ͦͥ͒͢͟ͅe̡̧̞̼̭̘̱̪̣̪̘̤͎̣̜ͮ̈́ͫ̓͌̾̐ͫ̈͞t̛ͨͪ̉ͦ̇̊ͫͮ͑̿͂̃ͯ̄́̀͢͏̷̦̰̠̮u̵̝̜̣̱̮͎̳͔̳̳͙̮ͥ͋̏̂ͧͬ̌̈́̿́͘l͋ͦͩͮ͏̷̧̦̝̳̩̭̕o̴̷͖̘ͨ̇ͪͭ̐ͬ̀͑ͯ̒̕ ̣̺͖͈̺̰̣͈̞̪̠̯̱͔͕a͑̅̇͋ͨ͐̚ 01:43:25 ion..................................... 01:43:36 oerjan: t̵̤̠̰̫͔̼̣͔̘̥̪͕̳̫̼̪͉͍͆̇̇ͧ́̎ͦ̄͂ͥ̊̇̚̕͠e̝͖͉̮̙͖̠͇̘͇̊ͪ̆͆ͩ̇̓ͥ̑̏̊ͯ͟r̸̛̒͌̌̒́̐̆͒͒̀͏̻̹̪̣v̺̪̯͉͎̱̜͚͎̖͙̞͕̗̙̱ͬ̿̈́ͦͥ͒͢͟ͅe̡̧̞̼̭̘̱̪̣̪̘̤͎̣̜ͮ̈́ͫ̓͌̾̐ͫ̈͞t̛ͨͪ̉ͦ̇̊ͫͮ͑̿͂̃ͯ̄́̀͢͏̷̦̰̠̮u̵̝̜̣̱̮͎̳͔̳̳͙̮ͥ͋̏̂ͧͬ̌̈́̿́͘l͋ͦͩͮ͏̷̧̦̝̳̩̭̕o̴̷͖̘ͨ̇ͪͭ̐ͬ̀͑ͯ̒̕ ̣̺͖͈̺̰̣͈̞̪̠̯̱͔͕a͑̅̇ 01:43:40 help 01:44:26 ion: implausible 01:44:58 Yeah, those take quite a few bytes. What i wrote/pasted took 506 bytes. WeeChat split it at the first space (after the colon), and the remaining part still didn’t fit in a command so it split it again. 01:45:49 shachaf: http://heh.fi/tmp/ghci-prompt 01:45:51 ion: um i just wrote it as one line didn't i? 01:46:26 good prompt 01:46:27 oerjan: With much less combining characters judging from what wc says about it. 01:46:36 ic 01:47:43 Sorry, my bad. Your paste didn’t drop any combining characters after all, i think. 01:48:38 i don't think i got all at the end 01:48:49 judging by the logs 01:49:47 hm, maybe it actually got cut off by the limit 01:49:55 ͙̮l͋ͦͩͮ͏̷̧̦̝̳̩̭̕o̴̷͖̘ͨ̇ͪͭ̐ͬ̀͑ͯ̒̕ ̣̺͖͈̺̰̣͈̞̪̠̯̱͔͕a͍̭͚̹͉̖̯̣͉͈͑̅̇͋ͨ͐͑ͪͮͮ̈́̈́͂̚̚͠͡ͅͅ 01:50:13 ion help stop it.. 01:50:28 ah seems so 01:50:33 shachaf: PROBLEM? 01:50:39 I think your paste lacked the combining characters that ended up on my second line before any normal character. 01:50:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:51:04 oerjan: ДА 01:51:05 * Koen_ takes a tissue and rubs the computer screen 01:51:19 And that was enough to make it fit to a single command. 01:51:33 ion: well they look like the same mess as yours in the logs. 01:51:59 ion: in the logs, mine is clearly cut off at the end 01:52:54 in this browser which shows it has a horrible uncombined mess 01:52:57 *as 01:57:25 There are now Japanese announcements for VGMCK. 02:01:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:01:34 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:01:42 It is not the first time I made something which Japanese people have used afterward. 02:06:30 What's a VGMCK 02:07:59 A program to write music in .VGM format 02:08:01 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:08:19 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:09:56 Write as in compose, convert from something else, or? 02:18:12 -!- hagb4rdoux has joined. 02:18:51 To compose your own music using MML. 02:20:22 hi zzo38: how is your little sound processing project processing? got a repo? 02:20:45 hagb4rdoux: What sound processing project do you mean? 02:21:13 erm..pardon.. progressing..going on.. what its state 02:21:47 damn it y am i still habardoux when joining 02:22:04 hagb4rdoux: it's your inner frenchman revolting 02:22:17 Other programs to write your own music in .VGM format do exist, such as XPMCK and DefleMask and a few others, although VGMCK supports more chips than the others, and some other features are also more complete. 02:22:21 shitty nettalk can't handle its appdata..though its a portable version!! 02:22:26 hagb4rdoux: That isn't answering my question. 02:22:39 -!- hagb4rdoux has changed nick to hagb4rd. 02:24:04 you 02:24:10 are a lingu-weirdo 02:24:39 however you are correct.. it is not 02:28:48 zzo38.secretsoundrevolution.onComplete(share(this, hagb4rd)); 02:30:12 it seems you are in the confuse the world with shortcuts of ideas i recently read about phase 02:30:30 it seems you are in the confuse the world 02:30:32 That doesn't answer my question either. 02:30:57 I don't know what little sound processing project you meant! 02:32:13 okay..sry then. maybe it was someone else then. i guess. 02:32:48 `log rectangl.*wave 02:33:01 `log rectang.*wave 02:33:20 No output. 02:33:31 2013-04-02.txt:02:33:01: `log rectang.*wave 02:33:40 maybe it was another spacetime 02:33:58 * hagb4rd is out of sync 02:35:31 shachaf: eek it's spreading https://www.fpcomplete.com/user/liyang/profunctors 02:36:06 oerjan: imo beaky should sue liyang for libel 02:36:29 hagb4rd: maybe zzo38 has too many to guess 02:36:46 shachaf: nah, that would be too easy 02:38:12 it wasn't that important.. we were just sayin hello..stating we're not ready to change the world with our superficial collaboration :P 02:38:17 @oerjan 02:38:18 Unknown command, try @list 02:52:06 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:52:31 -!- bengt_ has joined. 02:59:23 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:08:50 this song is crashing my heart like a train https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_DVS_303kQ ..(but i'm lost within a happy crowd of intelligent but sense-o-less nerds. #esoteric is the only place i can go) 03:09:00 where is my rescue squad? 03:09:11 (it must be exhausted) 03:11:51 where do the irc-folks go when they get older and ..sillier? 03:12:29 `slist 03:12:31 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:13:11 i'm old and silly, but i don't click voluntarily on heart-crashing links. hth. 03:16:12 hagb4rd, btw you were wrong 03:16:14 you are a good man oerjan 03:16:27 That environment variable wouldn't have helped. Happened to see what it contained, it already had .cmd 03:17:30 oh really? 03:17:32 :D 03:17:45 great 03:19:15 but you always shall strike me down with your rightous anger if needed! 03:21:45 * hagb4rd calms and relax oerjan having his swat equipped and ready to draw 03:21:52 *noticing 03:29:43 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: take it easy kids! some girls are bigger than other..good night). 03:32:04 i can't tell if hagb4rd is always really stoned or just a bit crazy 03:32:31 he knows windows pretty well. it's possible he's a sysadmin 03:32:41 which would answer that question pretty conclusively i think 03:33:47 you are _this_ close to getting quoted, you two 03:34:30 hi oerjan :') 03:34:48 Why are indexed monads not "categories in the category of endofunctor" or whatever it is? 03:35:11 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:47:04 they aren't? 03:48:18 mse claims sigfpe's blog contains a virus 03:51:27 -!- fowl_ has joined. 03:54:51 `welcome fowl_ 03:54:53 fowl_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:54:54 oerjan: it's a virus of the mind. 03:54:59 vind 03:57:33 shachaf: mike seems to say in the comments of http://blog.sigfpe.com/2009/02/beyond-monads.html that it's a 2-category, not a category. 03:58:18 well, you can trust mike. 03:58:40 is that mike stay 03:58:46 http://blog.sigfpe.com/2009/02/beyond-monads.html?showComment=1235695560000#c8394868375577042271 03:59:19 shachaf: profile says so 04:03:54 Storm Core is another ARMv2 implementation, other than Amber Core. Storm Core is not fixed to Xilinx Spartan-6, and runs at 80MHz on a Spartan-3, but is written in VHDL. Can Verilog and VHDL programs be combined in a FPGA? Can a single program have some files in Verilog and some in VHDL? 04:08:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:10:26 kmc: :-( 04:11:53 Do you know what features of ARMv2 are used by GCC? 04:11:58 Hopefully unrelated to my question mark thing. 04:13:18 yes 04:14:37 wait what did kmc even say 04:14:40 i'm horribly insecure and don't need to hear about how i'm just a "code monkey" because I don't know enough about machine learning 04:14:52 what 04:15:00 conversation in another channel 04:15:19 well, aww 04:15:33 i was having a shitty day anyway so it's just, can't deal with that too 04:16:01 @hug kmc 04:16:01 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 04:16:03 Well, that's something. 04:16:22 -!- ousia has quit (Quit: ousia). 04:16:38 haha 04:16:44 kmc: sorry people are being shitty :( 04:16:45 thanks shachaf, lambdabot 04:17:03 they should know I have a monopoly on that 04:17:10 haha 04:17:17 * Fiora hugs kmc? 04:17:26 * kmc hugs back 04:17:28 thanks :) 04:17:32 machine learning seems like an odd thing to lightningrod on anyway 04:17:45 people have their own specialties, nothing wrong with just knowing how to code... and you know a lot more than coding anyway 04:18:15 yeah, geez. you're one of the smartest CS people I know 04:18:19 i've probably made similar statements about functional programming or whatever in the past 04:18:25 *shrug* 04:18:33 i think i'm getting a broader perspective over time 04:18:37 then again I've felt that way lately too sometimes so >_< 04:19:06 You've felt like one of the smartest CS people you know? 04:19:13 she has. 04:19:14 i took a intro ML class; it was cool and I did pretty well, but it didn't grab me as "omg I must study this forever and use it everywhere" 04:19:28 yeah haskell is way cooler [THE JOKE IS ML,] 04:19:44 i think there's a huge gap between knowing the basic techniques and actually getting them to work on messy real world stuff 04:19:44 come on that was pretty good. 04:19:48 and i'm happy to leave that up to other people 04:19:50 elliott: nein 04:19:51 * Bike shakes elliott 04:19:56 i read that as "shanks" 04:19:59 you just don't accept me. 04:20:04 elliott: if by good you mean bad then it was still pretty bad 04:20:05 shachaf: no that is not what I meant -_- 04:20:26 well the joke has personal meaning to me 04:20:32 because i read kmc's line that way originally and it confused me 04:23:56 kmc: it is weird to me that the person who wrote that jit spraying thing is talking about "messy real world stuff" just fyi 04:24:58 That thing wasn't ML. 04:25:09 it's true it wasn't 04:25:41 oh. 04:25:46 i'm bored of hume. tell me what to do. 04:25:53 Bike: smullyan hth 04:26:16 i'm not going to "do" smullyan he's like 90 04:26:26 well hume is dead 04:26:29 doesn't seem to stop you 04:27:57 kmc: I could kind of say something but I think I will just like, point to what bike said 04:28:02 :) 04:28:26 yeah I like messy real world stuff when it's, like, debuggers and kernels 04:28:29 MATLAB not so much 04:28:33 happy to leave that to someone else 04:28:33 Should I learn about ML? 04:28:43 I can go work at this CV company. 04:28:52 shachaf: sure, why not 04:29:19 i used to be pretty into graphics too, but haven't done much of that in a while... kind of miss it 04:29:19 I don't know if I want to. :-( 04:29:40 It is surely better than doing nothing. 04:29:42 "sorry I'm turning in my graphics homework late because I spent all weekend coding a fractal visualizer to entertain tripping people instead" 04:30:05 this works iff the graphics prof shows up to the party where you're showing off the fractals 04:31:06 Hmm, I know pretty much nothing about ML. 04:31:30 kmc: also like two weeks ago I basically angsted myself into an anxious heap after spending 4 hours realizing how clueless I was at C++ at work 04:31:56 Fiora: what you have to realise is that everybody on the planet is clueless at C++ 04:32:00 which sort of goes to the same thing, like, people say "oh you must be brilliant you do all this amazing super hard simd stuff and you know SSE and everything!" and I'm like "I don't know how virtual functions work" 04:32:05 "save me" 04:32:08 even if you learn things about it, you just discover new ways in which it makes you clueless 04:32:11 *nod* 04:32:15 layer upon layer 04:32:16 have you read the C++ FAQ Lite? 04:32:35 I think I understand C++ templates about twice as well as the language itself 04:32:37 i think it's pretty good for getting an overview of most of the stuff in the language 04:32:45 I've read some things, it's just, I spend a few hours struggling with error messages caused by not knowing I needed pure virtual functions, and deried calsses and constructors and aghghghgh 04:32:48 because I kind of learned them first 04:32:59 well hume is dead <-- exhumed? 04:33:19 `addquoerjan well hume is dead <-- exhumed? 04:33:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: addquoerjan: not found 04:33:37 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:33:46 Fiora: isn't that how learning things is supposed to work 04:33:57 yes but like i am supposed to know this 04:34:47 Well, now you know how pure virtual functions work. 04:34:55 You are a superior person to old Fiora. 04:35:22 is the joke rating people's worth by how many things they've memorised 04:35:32 the joke is old Fiora is younger than current Fiora 04:35:40 so maybe she should be called young Fiora 04:36:44 mind = blown 04:37:49 i wonder who was the last person who understood everything about computers that was known at the time 04:38:07 I'm not saying it's the end of the world or it's bad or anyhting I guess 04:38:12 i found this amazing computer book from the 60's 04:38:20 which is mostly about weird tricks for building analog computers 04:38:36 out of like neon light bulbs and metal discs cut into peculiar shapes and shit like that 04:38:36 Must be amazing. 04:38:45 I am expressing a similar experience to kmc in order to build rapport and make him feel as if he is not alone, right? <.< 04:38:54 yes i think so 04:39:00 :) 04:39:09 Fiorapport 04:39:22 one of my dreams is a computer that's made out of high voltage arcs in air 04:39:26 Fiora: No, I am building rapport so I can demolish it, thereby making him feel more alone than he ever thought possible. 04:39:39 seems not implausible that you could build logic gates this way 04:39:52 it has hysteresis since the ionized air conducts better than regular air 04:39:58 and you can have complicated geometric arrangements 04:40:04 pikhq is cruel 04:40:09 also it floats upward so maybe that's useful? 04:40:10 The Bird is Cruel! 04:40:17 kmc: has bike linked you to the, um. was it a hamster computer? 04:40:25 haven't seen that 04:40:30 it was some animal computer 04:40:35 er, animal logic gate 04:40:35 _The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag_ 04:40:51 Well, I guess you can build computers from string and apples, so... 04:41:04 oh, crabs, I think? 04:41:14 Oh, crabs! 04:41:16 http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.1749 04:41:22 I think that's the one bike linked me 04:41:31 Computers can be made in all of these ways? 04:41:33 ah yes the crabputer 04:41:33 what, no video 04:41:35 I didn't know that. 04:42:34 that's the best 04:42:42 i mentioned it in a lecture and the students were pleased 04:43:22 crabputer, crabputer, work like computer, taste like crab 04:43:37 it has an "intimidation plate" 04:44:04 Computer? She can solve the 'alting problem! 04:45:03 -_- 04:45:32 *giggle* 04:50:23 Fiora: pshufb isn't fast like the other shuffles? 04:51:10 Oh, this is about Atom. 04:51:18 Hmm, maybe Atom was relevant to the code I used pshufb with. 04:51:57 yeah, pshufb is fast on *most* things, I think. the atom is a big exception 04:52:27 I have no idea how they managed to make it 6/6, just, geez @_@ all the other shuffles are fast too 04:53:35 Pretty crazy that that even exists. I thought they were still on 22nm or something, but now they're using the atom? 04:53:55 from what I've heard I think the atom is kind of an old architecture at this point, like, all the updates to it have been just shrinks? 04:54:05 there's a next-gen atom coming out soonish though, supposedly it'll be way better 04:54:17 (it was just a stupid pun, sorry) 04:54:24 .... XD 04:54:40 that joke was good and I am bad for missing it 04:54:41 * kmc shoves shachaf into an ion trap 04:55:04 imo ion would be a better fit. 04:55:07 s/.$// 04:55:29 there's a few other really ridiculously slow instructions on low-power chips, from what I remember 04:55:34 I think the bobcat has like a 20-cycle or something palignr 04:55:40 which is a 1 or 2 cycle instruction on everything else in the cosmos 04:56:13 I wish I knew about all the things Fiora knows about instead of boring things like pure virtual functions in C++. 04:56:23 then maybe i could be cool like Fiora and use a haswell???? 04:56:24 ._. sorry 04:56:27 you can combine your knowledge 04:56:33 through internet relay chat 04:56:33 geez it's really not that cool... 04:57:05 i think for one release cycle, Ubuntu supported an architecture called "lpia" which was i386 but compiled specifically to run well on low power chips 04:57:07 i didn't say it was cool i said you were cool 04:57:18 also i only use the word "cool" ironically 04:57:23 coolronically 04:57:30 which isn't to say i don't mean it 04:57:35 or that i do 04:57:35 help 04:57:38 what am i even saying 04:57:50 life tip: ignore everything shachaf says in lowercase 04:57:51 shachaf: the curse of irony 04:58:11 * shachaf glabnu ste gyatovlip trag yalofato sru inga tlom tugafasi 04:58:28 elliott: second life tip: ignore everything shachaf says in uppercase 04:58:36 so uh i just explained Functor to a perl programmer 04:58:42 is there like... a support group i can sign up for 04:58:54 shachaf: halp 04:58:56 that's not rot13 04:59:02 (fiora is not actually cool, she just has a dumb autistic brain that memorizes dumb things that aren't useful and then has nobody to talk with about them) 04:59:04 it's not rot13 english anyway 04:59:08 fiora......... 04:59:23 Fiora: Wow, that's just unfair. 04:59:30 we talk about them here 04:59:39 You wouldn't talk like that about other people, so why would you talk like that about yourself? 04:59:46 Fiora, if you keep being such a jerk to Fiora I'm going to have to take drastic measures. You shouldn't be so mean to your friends. 04:59:59 I mean, she's right there, man! 05:00:05 If you say that people have "dumb autistic brain"s and so on I'll classify you as a mean person. 05:00:12 * Fiora is a mean person I guess 05:00:26 Go sit on the group W bench. 05:00:37 Now, kid! 05:00:42 on the upside #esoteric's topic is dumb things that aren't useful 05:01:03 yes but other people actually know about them and can talk about them 05:01:11 so they're not useless at all 05:01:21 fiora you know lots of things and you talk to us and also me about them 05:02:02 yeah, but nobody else can really say anything meanngful most of the time so I just kind of talk at a wall for a bit and go back to playing pokemon or something 05:02:10 Fiora: I hate to break this to you but I think more people know about CPUs than esolangs 05:03:37 well technically nobody talks about esolangs in #esoteric anyway. oops. 05:04:25 maybe a #cpus? <.< >.> I guess you're right 05:07:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ngåit). 05:07:21 if you can't think of a way to do something without coming off as pretentious, then it's probably pretentious, right? 05:08:18 sorry for dumb angsting 05:08:25 * Bike patpats fiora 05:09:13 * Fiora hugs Bike 05:09:22 hug. 05:09:23 @hugs all around 05:09:23 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 05:14:54 bugs all around. 05:15:38 coppro: well do you think that "is pretentious" and "comes off as pretentious" are distinct concepts? 05:15:42 i don't really think so 05:16:05 an idea might be doomed to come off as pretentious thanks to the audience's attitudes, but still be a worthwhile idea 05:17:09 there are some things that are kind of universally labeled as pretentious in popular culture 05:18:17 for example kmc <-- brun 05:21:04 confession i enjoy modern art 05:21:28 Bike how could you....... 05:21:59 confession i enjoy monoids 05:22:23 the portland art museum has this piece "Alaska" that's a bunch of TVs stacked on a car displaying a twenty second loop of the sun rising 05:22:26 it's amazing 05:23:10 on a cart* 05:23:15 I,I "You ASCII silly question, you get a silly ANSI." "Alaska silly question whenever I want to!" 05:23:15 that's what alaska is like irl 05:23:22 and another one that's a TV covered in garish paint displaying some obscure cartoon 05:23:26 Bike: cool 05:23:33 i have been to Alaska and it is not like that "irl" 05:23:41 they also have a bunch of Monet and stuff but like, TVs man. 05:23:58 is alaska cool irl 05:24:01 um i mean 05:24:05 in the non-temperature sense you asshole 05:24:11 depends on what you like 05:24:13 imo cold places with lots of snow are pretty cool 05:24:18 but I don't know if this applies to alaska 05:24:35 if you like mountains, bears, seasons of unusual duration then they pretty much have you covered 05:24:47 rednecks flying small planes 05:24:59 alarming rates of sexual assault 05:25:20 isn't that just america in general OH BURN n.b. I don't know if amurikka's rape rate is actually higher or what 05:25:22 More alarming than other places? 05:25:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:25:31 i was there in the summer so it was only a normal amount of snow 05:26:04 Summer? She is not a number, she is a free woman! 05:26:15 shachaf.... 05:26:29 shachaf: yeah I think it's much higher than any other state 05:26:33 don't know why 05:26:44 another thing about alaska: they pay you money to live there 05:26:45 elliott: help im addicted :'( 05:26:55 another thing about alaska: it's next to canada and also russia? 05:27:06 don't be silly those are on opposite sides of the map 05:27:47 uh shachaf if you zoom out all the way you will see that Alaska is next to the left copy of Russia 05:27:53 haha 05:27:55 although quite far from the right copy 05:28:06 i've got to sleep now 05:28:08 as i was typing before kmc made me laugh: i like the idea that alaska is so awful they have to pay you to live there 05:28:24 do you get paid to live in like whitehorse or wherever 05:28:25 i will share any additional thoughts about alaska (if any) tomorrow 05:28:29 kmc no 05:28:30 or do you just starve because harper suxxx 05:28:33 I can't live without more alaska fax! 05:28:39 here fax is short of factologies 05:29:05 @ask kmc for additional thoughts about alaska 05:29:05 Consider it noted. 05:29:19 this book talks about Milner but not in a type way, gosh 05:29:33 did you finish lyah and/or the report yet Bike 05:29:37 Bike: does it talk about harper 05:29:50 shachaf no elliott yes like ten years ago? 05:29:56 have you written any programs in haskell yet 05:30:07 nah 05:30:08 Bike: the joke is harper of existentialtype.something.com 05:30:13 so you're "Sgeo"ing haskell 05:30:17 that's a dumb joke 05:30:26 i wonder if harper likes harrop 05:30:29 elliott, well, i don't write any "useful" programs anyway 05:30:35 harroper 05:30:43 so i'll probably just stick to SNOBOL whenever i do, books be damned 05:30:51 do you actually write snobol 05:31:00 lol god no 05:31:11 I have the manual though. It was neat. 05:31:15 oh wait have you read the typeclassopedia 05:31:17 @where typeclassopedia 05:31:17 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Typeclassopedia 05:31:20 it's a good thing to read 05:32:01 oh, the composable monads thing is like that Steele paper i read back in the pioneer days 05:32:25 do you mean monad transformers 05:32:48 @let sum'n'max x y = (x + y, max x y) 05:32:52 shachaf is an awful person, guys 05:33:09 yes i mean those. 05:33:36 > sum'n'max 4 719 05:33:38 (723,719) 05:33:45 useful 05:33:51 it's the name, Bike 05:34:08 oh! oh like the bunny 05:34:24 also these monad transformers seem a bit «'"inelegantly"'» defined 05:34:35 monad transformers are kinda weird but waht do you mean by that 05:34:37 i mean they're useful 05:34:46 yes 05:35:00 like this typeclassy thing 05:35:05 whatever i don't want to sgeo too hard here 05:35:29 "Is the composition of two monads always a monad? As hinted previously, the answer is no. For example, XXX insert example here." 05:35:38 you mean the MonadState class thing or what? 05:35:41 Bike: that's you 05:35:44 that's your cue 05:35:46 or just MonadTrans itself or 05:35:51 do something meaningful in your life 05:35:52 Yeah the MonadState etc. class thing. 05:35:56 yeah well 05:36:00 The concept itself is fine and probably hella useful, I'm sure. 05:36:01 it beats "lift $ lift $ lift $ get" 05:36:05 Bike: btw adjunctions 05:36:09 but i agree, it's slightly ad-hoc 05:36:12 imo fuck adjunctions 05:36:20 it's just also very useful to have those auto-lifting classes 05:36:34 and sometimes being polymorphic over monads that satisfy some of the classes can be useful 05:36:42 btw "What is the kind of t in the declaration of MonadTrans?" the answer is (* -> *) -> * -> *, right? 05:36:56 yep 05:36:56 @kind MonadTrans 05:36:58 ((* -> *) -> * -> *) -> Constraint 05:37:02 yep 05:37:05 cool 05:37:08 Bike: imo s/adjunctions/you/ hth 05:37:12 shachaf :( 05:37:16 Bike: you can use :k MaybeT or such to find that out in ghci, btw 05:37:26 don't be dissin' adjunctions Bike 05:37:31 hm i didn't realize constraints were kinded, that's pretty obvious really 05:37:31 you don't know what you're up against 05:37:37 they're not really 05:37:39 They're not, in standard Haskell. 05:37:42 It's a GHC extension. 05:37:43 they are in a new, experimental ghc extension 05:37:56 which lets you do crazy thinsg like classes of classes 05:38:12 Bike: want to see something crazy 05:38:17 standard haskell like barely mentioned kinds at all 05:38:21 just kind inference and that was it 05:38:24 oh maybe you have to know about comonads first 05:38:38 does typeclassopedia cover arrows 05:38:41 I forget & hope not 05:38:46 comonads are just comonoids in the cocategory of endofunctors 05:38:46 here's that edward kmett guy again 05:38:56 (btw cocategory = category. i just said that to make it seem complicated) 05:38:57 That Edward Kmett Guy 05:38:59 elliott: I'll skip that part just to satiate you. 05:39:10 To feed you. Yes that is what I meant. 05:39:13 Bike: did you know that edwardk used to be in #esoteric a lot?? 05:39:23 Yes 05:39:28 ok. 05:39:39 Since like. you mention him at all as a person you know 05:39:54 Bike: did you know edwardk is the 5th most active user on github?? 05:39:59 are you suggesting the only people I know are from #esoteric 05:40:02 creepy 05:40:16 https://gist.github.com/paulmillr/2657075 05:40:18 none of us have ever talked to edwardk, we are just in his fanclub 05:40:37 i am in conal's fanc lub 05:40:39 are you suggesting the only people I know are from #esoteric <-- well. yes? 05:40:40 the joke is lub 05:40:46 Bike: well that's only like half true! 05:41:00 BUT WHICH HALF 05:41:12 hey Bike do you like kripke structures 05:41:33 i like kripke 05:41:36 so let's go with yes 05:41:46 oh 05:41:51 that doesn't work 05:41:52 wait fuck he's still alive 05:41:59 do you only like dead people 05:42:09 no i just, i thought he was dead 05:42:10 me too Bike. me too. i like you Bike. :-) 05:42:14 who ever heard of a living philosopher 05:42:19 watch out:-) 05:42:32 Bike: do you like de bruijn thingy 05:42:34 a wolf actually started howling right when you said that 05:42:36 good timing 05:42:41 shachaf: which thingy (probably yes either way) 05:42:45 the joke is the answer is yes no matter what thingy is 05:42:49 because de bruijn was the best 05:42:55 sounds good 05:43:13 "Note: MonadFix is included here for completeness (and because it is interesting) but seems not to be used much. " 05:43:31 Tell that to nwf! 05:43:46 The only way I know of to understand MonadFix is to read the PhD thesis that introduced it. 05:43:53 Fortunately it's a very readable thesis. 05:44:07 wow hm this is not really what scope means whatever 05:44:31 " One of the motivating examples given in the original paper describing MonadFix (see below) is encoding circuit descriptions." good to read huh 05:44:50 it reads like a novel 05:44:57 the joke is novel contribution to something or other 05:45:02 i don't know 05:45:04 help 05:46:17 "Why is this OK? Isn't fromJust almost as bad as unsafePerformIO? Well, usually, yes. " 05:46:28 Bike: scope? 05:46:42 nothing just being anal 05:46:50 me too 05:46:57 25/8/366 05:46:57 ScopedBikeVariables 05:47:08 > 25/8/366 05:47:09 8.53825136612022e-3 05:47:21 "The interesting thing to note is that maybeFix will never crash -- although it may, of course, fail to terminate." 05:47:38 whats that supposed to mean.................... 05:48:07 "It almost seems, spookily, that mfix is sending a value back in time to itself through the IORef" 05:48:07 crash, n.: fail to terminate (n. stands fro definition.) 05:48:24 i already made the n. stands for definition joke shachaf 05:48:24 spokily 05:48:25 In this case it probably means doing fromJust Nothing 05:48:30 elliott: ??????????????????? 05:48:38 im pretty sure i just invented it 05:48:41 which is "impossible" or whatever i dunno 05:49:18 Bike: I think you're ready to learn about lens. 05:49:26 oh god 05:49:31 fiora help somebody help 05:49:41 anybody 05:49:52 counterpoint: shachaf is wrong 05:50:06 Bike: A lens is a getter-setter pair. 05:50:15 Let's say a Foo contains a Bar and a Bar contains a Vaz 05:50:44 If you have a Lens Foo Bar and a Lens Bar Vaz you can construct a Lens Foo Vaz 05:50:58 Bike: just ignore him 05:51:00 And you can use it to get and set the Vaz inside the Foo. 05:51:42 > view (_1 . _2) (("hello",5),True) -- getter 05:51:44 5 05:51:52 > set (_1 . _2) 100 (("hello",5),True) -- setter 05:51:54 (("hello",100),True) 05:52:07 _1 is the lens for the first element of a tuple. 05:52:12 _2 is the lens for the second element of a tuple. 05:52:27 needs a catchier name 05:52:43 cadar, say 05:53:04 It's called a lens because it "focuses" on some part of a value. 05:53:21 Bike: Wait, did you mean that you don't want to learn about lenses? 05:53:25 I thought that was a joke. 05:53:34 no it meant... i don't know what it meantn. 05:53:41 this sounds kind of like the "zippers" in lyah. 05:54:21 Lens s a = (s -> a, s -> a -> s) 05:54:31 s is the outer type, a is the inner type. 05:54:35 That's a getter-setter pair. 05:54:48 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:54:54 You can write compose :: Lens s a -> Lens a x -> Lens s x 05:54:59 (Exercise: Write compose.) 05:55:07 There are also other representations of lenses that let you do a lot of things. 05:56:15 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:59:51 Bike: elliott thinks profunctors are too hard for you. 06:00:04 Are you going to take this sitting down?! 06:00:10 Well, it's true, I don't see how to compose the setters. 06:00:23 Are you talking about me elsewhere or are you just the same person dressed as two people? 06:00:42 we're two people dressed as the same person 06:00:50 Bike: Well, you'll have to use the getter too. 06:00:52 hanging out in #bike 06:00:52 You guys are pretty short. 06:00:58 Oh. Wow I forgot you could do that. 06:01:16 #bike is an actual channel? 06:01:34 imo everyone here but me should join #bike while i think about this stupid problem 06:01:42 There are bike channels on Freenode. 06:01:53 I wonder if I should mention it? 06:01:58 There are also train channels. 06:02:17 I think that's OK to mention. 06:02:19 If you like trains you should join #cslounge-trains 06:02:25 I made a #bike 06:02:27 I guess 06:03:41 Bike: wow, shachaf was really mean to you! 06:03:43 in your channel. 06:03:58 elliott: you didn't see the thing I did before you joined. 06:04:03 You all are bad at being in #bike. 06:04:04 /t Bike? more like Bestpersoneverike 06:04:05 Just so you know. 06:04:08 23:02 -!- #bike You're not a channel operator 06:04:30 Except Fiora. She's got this shit down. 06:04:38 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:04:46 bike you should join #bike 06:04:53 Fiora is too busy being in #fiora 06:05:49 Bike: btw it helps if you use "polymorphic lenses" 06:05:54 guys help this is too many irssi windows. 06:05:57 it makes the job easier 06:06:18 s -> a -> s, a -> x -> a, get s -> x -> s. So it's just... \s x -> set2 (get1 s) x, to write it in the horriblest way possible probably 06:06:37 \s -> set2 . get1 s 06:07:05 elliott: don't give Bike the pointfree bug 06:07:09 he's still free 06:07:13 There's still a point right there. 06:07:22 Is there an #orange? 06:07:56 I,I We'll surely avoid scurvy if we all eat an orange. 06:08:15 Is that a monkey island quote 06:08:24 and what the FUCK is I,I 06:08:27 stop that shit. 06:08:43 i literally heard that in guybrush's voice jesus 06:09:25 Oh, and the first part of compose is just . obviously 06:09:37 Right. 06:09:40 So that's what lenses are. 06:09:52 They let you do updates of things nested deep inside other things easily. 06:09:53 shachaf: hmm, if you do (s, a) -> s or (a, s) -> s does the composition of the setter look more symmterical/uniform? 06:09:59 In a purely-functional way. 06:10:13 elliott: I doubt it? 06:10:20 I mean, you still have to use the getter and the setter. 06:41:28 Bike: Want more lens puzzles? 06:41:42 why not. 06:41:47 Hmm. 06:41:52 OK, next lens thing: 06:42:00 You can make it "better" by adding more types. 06:42:08 type Lens s t a b = (s -> a, s -> b -> t) 06:42:21 This is better because now you can change the type of the inner field and it still works. 06:42:35 For example: Lens (e,a) (e,b) a b 06:42:47 > set _1 "hello" (1,2) 06:42:49 ("hello",2) 06:42:53 This wouldn't work with the Lens s a version. 06:43:12 But now you'll need to have lenses starting with b and t if you want to keep lensing, don't you? 06:43:17 Also it makes it easier to write code because the type system catches your mistakes. 06:43:22 ? 06:43:32 compose :: Lens s t a b -> Lens a b x y -> Lens s t x y 06:43:36 lens batman_the_animated_series 06:44:00 Bike: You're missing all the good anecdotes in #fiora by the way. 06:44:13 I've told several anecdotes. 06:44:31 I guess I can join #fiora. 06:49:31 Bike: you made an awful mistake 06:49:47 Was the mistake joining #esoteric? 06:50:08 I bet the mistake was reading this book by Aczel. 07:00:39 Fiora: You should talk about false sharing! 07:00:50 "best thing ever false sharing imo" 07:03:10 what about it @_@ 07:03:20 I don't know. 07:05:59 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:13:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:15:28 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 07:36:34 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: me). 07:37:35 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 07:43:15 -!- carado has joined. 07:47:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:47:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:48:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:48:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:55:31 -!- Halite has joined. 07:56:53 grr 07:56:53 Halite: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 07:57:28 . 08:04:02 The reason I'm not wildly making up epic syntax is because it's hard to code it 08:24:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:42:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:54:48 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 09:02:39 `slist 09:02:46 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 09:03:03 What is `slist for? 09:03:05 ...slist 09:03:35 homestuck 09:04:11 So why is there both ^list and `slist? 09:04:34 list is a backup in case slist isn't working 09:04:51 I thought ^list was the canonical one 09:05:00 ^list 09:05:00 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 09:05:19 add me 09:05:20 ^list 09:05:20 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 09:05:23 it's two different bots, I think? 09:05:30 it's two bots 09:07:57 There's some bug in my Underhanded C contest code that is changing Taneb's number of BFFs to 0 09:08:24 I'm making a programming language. Wish me luck. 09:10:22 Taneb Y U NO HAVE FRIENDS 09:10:34 Because I try to have to many 09:11:31 Really naming one of my test variables "Taneb" is worth it for that reason 09:14:58 -!- monqy has joined. 09:20:10 Oh, I get it 09:20:26 I was cloning Taneb before he made friends 09:20:48 can I have friends 09:21:41 Fiora: I haven't added any yet 09:22:25 I was just going to use Fiora as a test case for someone who didn't have friends, at first 09:22:38 And then I was going to make Taneb and Fiora be friends 09:23:38 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:23:55 what 09:24:03 what ;-; 09:24:40 user ThatOtherPerson = user_init(1337, "David Beckley", "ThatOtherPerson"); 09:24:40 user Taneb = user_init(1234, "Nathan van Doorn", "Taneb"); 09:24:40 user_add_bff(&ThatOtherPerson, &Taneb); 09:24:45 user Fiora = user_init(101, "Someone Random", "Fiora"); 09:25:00 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 09:25:01 gasp Fiora's name is leaked! 09:25:09 oh monqy hello 09:25:19 i missed you 09:25:25 did you hear my anecdotes from before 09:25:36 wow. the system they describe for this years contest is actually kind of cool 09:25:49 minus the total silliness like credit card statements XD 09:25:52 anecdotes? 09:26:15 hmmm. I should try this contest, it sounds fun :3 09:26:26 monqy: ask elliott for details 09:26:31 ok 09:26:38 by details i mean whether they were good 09:26:42 ok 09:27:09 and yes my name is totally Someone Random 09:27:12 >:3 09:27:17 :D 09:27:20 <3 09:32:53 oerjan: Why did you leave #haskell? 09:33:03 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:44:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:45:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:59:48 is stacks an original programming language idea 10:00:18 ...not really 10:00:20 ahem 10:00:22 not stacks 10:00:23 queues 10:00:27 ...not really 10:00:31 :( 10:00:33 what IS 10:00:53 If I could tell you, it wouldn't be original 10:00:57 ... 10:01:08 my imagination is poop 10:05:16 http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas here, hope that helps 10:06:30 I really want to do the metametaprogramming one, but I'm not completely sure what that even means 10:06:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:14:57 I should make the queue number-only. 10:16:21 I've wanted to play nomic sometime in 2003-2005, and I finally got in 2008. I wanted to go in Second Life in 2004, and I finally got in in 2006. I wanted to go in Planetside in 2006, and I finally got in... I still haven't gotten in 10:16:36 That's a rather long time span 10:17:42 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:19:20 There should be an esoteric nomic 10:19:52 I thought nomic *was* esoteric nomic 10:20:02 unless you mean an #esoteric nomic 10:20:05 Yes 10:20:12 oh 10:20:12 And yes 10:34:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:36:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:38:09 -!- augur_ has joined. 10:50:09 Whoa, my sshfs command line tab-completed the remote path. 10:50:12 What year is it, again? 10:56:00 it is 2010 10:56:10 no wait 10:56:14 it's 1337 10:58:26 Oh 10:58:26 I just cannot make a new idea for my programming language 10:58:32 Better start beating the french then 10:58:45 why 10:58:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years%27_War 10:59:00 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 10:59:05 it's supposed to start now 10:59:21 Anyway, you could always implement an existing esolang instead 10:59:24 Such as Feather 11:02:56 At least according to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather, the Feather spec is even more ambiguous than the DCPU spec 11:26:01 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:30:17 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:34:52 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:53:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:57:38 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:04:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:05:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:07:49 -!- nooga has joined. 12:10:59 -!- Halite has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:14:03 -!- augur has joined. 12:21:56 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:27:40 -!- nooga has joined. 12:29:42 -!- hkt has joined. 12:31:50 -!- hkt has quit (Client Quit). 12:33:56 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:34:24 -!- augur has joined. 12:38:30 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 12:39:06 -!- nooga_ has joined. 12:41:37 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:42:35 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:48:28 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:49:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:49:52 -!- augur has joined. 12:52:19 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:54:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:09:47 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:17:23 The future's gonna be great 13:17:32 I HAVE SPOKEN 13:20:03 -!- augur has joined. 13:21:14 (thumbs up) 13:24:26 Who would be in for an #esoteric Nomic 13:27:05 you dont want to go back down that road 13:27:19 (several #esoteric people play agora however) 13:27:38 (or I guess "#esoteric is half the active agoran playerbase" is more accurate) 13:35:11 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:37:41 -!- boily has joined. 13:41:45 Taneb: try something with a self-modifying esolang 13:42:33 well or something like Emmental or Mascarpone 13:47:13 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:55:32 Taneb: so I hear they call you doctor van doom these days 13:55:57 Mainly oerjan and elliott 13:57:25 -!- fowl_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:57:58 Who's that comedian 13:58:02 The geordie one 13:58:35 Ross Noble 14:04:09 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 14:09:34 Ugh... JQuery... 14:11:08 jquery is nice. 14:11:36 6 months ago I would have agreed with you. 14:11:50 Now I just view it as overkill when CSS would do 14:12:53 what about ajax? 14:13:36 Okay, it's good for ajax 14:15:53 -!- Gregor has set topic: Try better next time. Level 7 status revoked. | H4sIADG1WFEAAzMxVDA3UDA3UjCzVDBLVjAyUDAxUzBLAyMg1xAAAdFVNCAAAAA= | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:15:58 -!- Gregor has set topic: Try harder next time. Level 7 status revoked. | H4sIADG1WFEAAzMxVDA3UDA3UjCzVDBLVjAyUDAxUzBLAyMg1xAAAdFVNCAAAAA= | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:16:55 uhm, what's that level 7 thingy? 14:17:10 The thing after the level 6 thingy 14:17:21 you vile mathematician answerer. 14:17:33 boily, it's been revoked. 14:17:37 We probably spend more time explaining this to regular people than people confusing it to the official freenode thing stay confused. 14:17:38 Now you'll never know 14:18:14 now I know I should be confused by the issue, and that's something I'm good with at. 14:18:18 -!- Deewiant has set topic: Try harder next time. Level 7 status revoked. | XQAAgAD//////////wAgnApGq03V4cQiqbdWT15vZ1CW/rSxi4DGHmNGLlT9jrx///b94AA= | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:19:48 boily, do you play dwarf fortress 14:20:22 not yet. 14:24:49 Taneb: imo Taneb -> me -> Phantom_Hoover -> monqy succession fort 14:25:03 Oh no 14:25:05 That means I start 14:25:11 feel free to swap you and ph!! 14:25:50 I think everything suddenly became clearer, except it concerns DF, so maybe not. 14:29:02 boily can be added to that list iff he admits France isn't real. 14:29:39 no problem about France. last time I went there it was in 2003, and for all I know it's a figment of my coffee-deprived imagination. 14:30:25 Back in the BBS days, I thought I should get me some of that VGA Planets goodness, those people were swapping .TRNs like no tomorrow. (Then I did nothing.) 14:30:48 boily: note: quebec is part of france. 14:31:23 elliott: st-pierre et miquelon are the last two remaining french territories near here (fsvo near). 14:31:38 Québec is part of Canada, or not, depending on how you feel today and perhaps moon phases. 14:31:41 you're saying a bunch of nonsense. characteristic of a french person. 14:31:48 no, canada is american, not french 14:33:02 Huh, there still is a VGA Planets 5 under development, and it's now a realtime multiplayer online thing. 14:33:21 We can cope without flux stone, right? 14:33:49 "VGA Planets 5 StarCube (under development) is a new version of VGA Planets which is played as a real time multiplayer online game --" StarCube === TimeCube? 14:34:47 elliott: by the way, there's this small text file I forgot I had, and it reminded me that I don't have your coordinates and your body mass yet. 14:34:53 “which is played as a real time multiplayer online game” // it's played AS a multiplayer online game. It's not actually online, it just doesn't let you pause and calls you a fag every 10 minutes. 14:37:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:38:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:39:00 boily: 72⅛ and 3, respectively. 14:43:30 oh well. I'll go with that, and extrapolate more precise infos thereafter... 14:45:32 (and or use coercive manœuvres to extract these precious tidbits from you) 14:52:13 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:10:18 It's time to have blood removed from my veins if I am deemed worthy 15:10:26 elliott, stay away from the Mart. 15:10:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:10:38 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 15:11:53 wait, what mart 15:11:56 oh 15:20:23 elliott: imo go to the Mart 15:20:41 no 15:26:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 15:29:23 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 15:34:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:42:13 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:43:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:44:44 Apparently you need an appointment to have blood removed from your veins if you're deemed worthy 15:44:46 Who know 15:48:23 *knew 15:48:50 How know, brown glow 15:49:55 -!- Bike has joined. 15:49:59 -!- conehead has joined. 15:51:50 -!- augur has joined. 15:53:51 elliott, pig tails or cave wheat 15:54:31 yes 15:54:47 Which should be the autumn harverst 15:56:57 I'm leaning to pig tails 15:57:34 Freaks Phone Number Out At 15:57:46 http://sprunge.us/JCZA Well, that was remarkably stupid. 15:57:47 those have gotta be five instructions from an esolang 15:58:58 The number freaks are out: phone. 16:00:24 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 16:03:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:12:20 http://rnd.fi/countation/ 16:12:21 What shall we call the fortress 16:12:30 count the dots 16:12:32 in 10 seconds 16:12:33 fizzie: mesg is hardcore hacking. 16:12:38 tell me your score 16:12:50 Gregor: Is very clever, yes. 16:13:59 my record is 39 16:17:53 I got tired at 19. Somehow, as far as dots go, it was not as entertaining as DOT ACTION. 16:18:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:18:29 it's pretty boring up to 20 16:18:39 then again it takes about 10 seconds to get there 16:18:50 elliott, suggest a name for the fortress or it gets called "Homestuck" 16:19:03 now 40 16:19:21 Taneb: i think monqy might suffer a lot playing a fortress called homestuck and im too sleep deprived to come up with a name that isnt terrible 16:19:25 so whati m saying is go for it 16:20:05 IT IS TIME TO EMBARK 16:21:41 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:21:43 Taneb: i hope this fortress is really stupid in a least one way 16:21:49 like in terms of the embark 16:21:59 also I'm still going to dig to hell 16:22:02 well it's df aren't they going to all die horribly either way 16:22:03 Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:22:24 you just don't understand Bike. i only care about the exquisite deaths 16:22:24 elliott, I'll hide the pickaxe 16:22:34 http://24.media.tumblr.com/7ec8d47c6a8ce5feb39a86a1ee08fdcb/tumblr_mhw700Z83g1s0s0n5o1_500.jpg 16:24:02 elliott, good news! 16:24:22 do you mean bad news 16:24:26 if it's good news i'm not interested 16:24:40 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 16:24:40 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 16:24:40 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 16:25:37 -!- augur has joined. 16:26:03 best 26 16:26:33 cool 16:26:50 that was the second most boring thing I did today 16:26:53 :( 16:27:05 how do people not like to count dots 16:27:45 there was some suspense when one of the dots thied to hide behind a dead pixel though 16:30:03 how do you count them? 16:31:44 I counted in groups of five. 16:31:47 me too 16:32:01 I in 3 or 4 16:32:14 so no one agrees it's fun? :( 16:32:31 maybe i'm a martian or something 16:32:48 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is almost isomorphic to Binary Lambda Calculus 16:33:22 -!- ogrom has joined. 16:33:35 with LAMBDA <-> 00, APPLY <-> 01, ZERO <-> 10, ONE MORE THAN<->1 16:34:19 tromp_, I think that's because both are lambda calculus with peano numerals 16:35:08 And de Bruijn indicies 16:35:35 only real difference is character encoding 16:35:47 Church numerals vs bit lists 16:35:59 Are you the John Tromp names on the Wikipedia page for BLC? 16:36:06 yup 16:37:15 why'd you name it after a sucky movie:-? 16:38:20 It was named after a spam page 16:38:53 Advertising a "Real fast download" for Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster 16:39:29 (which I have not seen) 16:39:38 me neither 16:40:14 And I have no intention of seeing it, either 16:40:18 i fear watching it is an even bigger waste of time than downloading it:( 16:40:38 For some reason I was under the impression that it was a game. 16:41:53 Koen_: what was the most boring thing? 16:42:22 uh well there's this very rich guy who just announced he had created his own computer science school 16:42:39 and hmm the admission tests are online 16:42:44 I passed the first today 16:42:56 aaaaaaand that was one hour of solving tangram puzzles 16:43:26 well half an hour 16:43:59 you don't like tangram puzzles? 16:44:11 sorry let me rephrase that 16:44:17 my game is better than tangram puzzles? 16:46:17 -!- carado has joined. 16:48:22 * oklofok is making an even better game 16:49:04 countation 2: the revenge of the dots 16:49:07 3D 16:49:11 64 16:50:33 : Modern Warfare 16:59:08 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 17:03:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:10:43 -!- augur has joined. 17:15:30 -!- btiffin has joined. 17:18:31 hey you guys 17:18:50 any idea what xkcd's hash thing is? 17:19:03 oklofok: weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell yes 17:19:23 woohoo 17:19:43 but that's probably mainly because I had the liberty to stop at any point 17:20:05 whereas for every tangram puzzle I was desperately hoping it was the last 17:20:19 and always wrong (except for the last) 17:20:56 Taneb: there seems to be a problem with your Nora implementation 17:21:22 when i port the blc prime number sieve to it, it hangs 17:22:19 leaving out the sieving step it produces the expected "0011111111..." though 17:22:41 Koen_: As far as I know, it's just a hash thing. As in, you try to find input that's as close as possible to the specified hash. 17:23:02 sounds fun 17:23:15 so basically you bruteforce it? 17:23:26 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:23:31 Unless you happen to have a better-than-bruteforce preimage attack on Skein. 17:24:17 -!- nooga has joined. 17:24:17 (The best.csv rankings are Hamming distances i.e. number of wrong bits.) 17:24:22 tromp_, I think it was oerjan who wrote 17:24:23 it 17:24:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:25:06 Given what the list looks like, I guess it only accepts .ac.uk and .edu domains? 17:25:26 ok; tell him when you see him:) 17:25:32 (So can't participate.) 17:25:41 i can debug it when i have more spare time 17:26:22 He usually logreads, so perhaps no particular need to tell (or @tell). 17:27:45 fizzie: It says "School not found" on attempting to add aalto.fi so it's possible that it just has a whitelist of complete domains 17:28:11 Deewiant: Yes, well, sure, but a whitelist of just .ac.uk and .edu names. 17:28:32 Right 17:28:59 it doesn't reject u-psud.fr 17:28:59 Oh, there's a few .edu.au's in there too. 17:30:09 (I didn't notice because I grep -v'd ".edu" in general.) 17:30:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:30:56 Koen_: That's funny, since there's really no .fr's in best.csv, and I would think it's a complete list since the last entries go up to 506 wrong bits. 17:31:35 Koen_: It will say "School not found" only after you give it some data, FWIW. 17:31:39 It does reject u-psud.fr 17:31:40 oooh ok 17:34:48 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 17:34:49 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 17:34:49 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 17:40:34 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:41:44 -!- Madoka-Kaname has changed nick to Lymia. 17:42:32 -!- augur has joined. 17:43:53 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 17:47:42 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:48:07 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:48:14 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 17:52:16 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:54:56 -!- atriq has joined. 18:00:09 -!- Cryovat has joined. 18:06:11 -!- metasepia has joined. 18:06:40 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:06:49 -!- carado has joined. 18:16:39 http://rnd.fi/findit/ next game 18:17:04 this one i suck at 18:22:01 uh... what is it?????? 18:24:34 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:25:27 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:26:41 oklofok, how bad's bad? 18:26:41 -!- heroux has joined. 18:26:50 68 on first try 18:27:20 i was hoping the target hash value was a 32 x 32 monochrome image 18:27:20 kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 18:27:25 but it doesn't seem to me anything recognizable 18:27:48 oh another thing: in alaska they have power outlets at every parking space so that you can plug in an electric heater for your engine block 18:27:52 otherwise it freezes 18:27:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:28:09 oops 18:28:16 i think the version online was impossible to fail. 18:28:20 should be fixed 18:28:58 atriq: i didn't really try it yet, but based on other players it's way too easy atm 18:29:23 have to do other stuff now 18:29:38 you're all welcome for the games 18:37:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:38:09 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 18:39:51 @messages? 18:39:52 Sorry, no messages today. 18:41:15 Hi, ais523 and ThatOtherPerson 18:41:28 hi atriq 18:46:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:47:02 Hi Taneb! 18:47:26 What's with the atriqness? 18:47:34 Two computers 18:47:45 Can't be bothered to go upstairs to turn my computer off 18:47:50 So I'm down here on my laptop 18:48:36 mosh + irssi in the cloud 18:48:38 it's the only way to fly 18:48:53 You could ghost Taneb 18:48:59 I would like to see an implementation of Checkout in Verilog (even a partial one), if such a thing might exist. 18:49:02 ThatOtherPerson, it's set to reconnect automatically 18:49:12 heh :D 18:49:22 The easiest thing to do would be to ssh in and kill the process 18:49:26 But there's not much point 18:50:38 -!- btiffin has left. 18:54:37 ais523: If you know VHDL, maybe you would know how difficult it might be to fix the Storm core to do certain things differently and what would be the advantages/disadvantages of doing so. 18:54:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:54:59 zzo38: I don't know what the Storm core is, nor am I particularly interested in it 18:55:26 It is a ARMv2 clone (so is Amber), but Storm is in VHDL rather than Verilog and is not specific to Xilinx devices 18:56:06 The title says ARM7 but the documentation says ARMv2 (ARM7 is ARMv3) 18:57:01 ThatOtherPerson, how's the underhanded C coming along? 18:57:14 Rather underhandedly 18:57:30 I haven't worked on it for quite a few hours 18:57:33 ooh, is the UCC up again? 18:57:48 Yep 18:58:20 -!- Bike has joined. 18:58:46 The site's down 18:58:50 But it had a new callenge 18:59:05 challenge 18:59:06 thing 18:59:56 ais523: Basically, some sort of Facebook like thing, where access privileges are dependant on the number of connections between you and the page that you are viewing 19:00:06 *person whose page 19:00:15 hmm 19:00:48 Designated by DERPCON level 19:02:02 I'm BFFs with my art teacher, Mr. Gomez; he's BFFs with Lisa Brennan-Jobs; she's BFFs with Steve Jobs; which means I am at DERPCON 3 with Steve Jobs 19:02:04 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 19:02:58 And DERPCON 5 with Tony Blair 19:04:30 But the goal is to make the DERPCON function return a low DERPCON level whenever your account is one of the ones being compared 19:04:43 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:04:47 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:05:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:08:05 > fix (\k l -> case l of [] -> 0; (x:xs) -> x + k xs) [1..10] 19:08:07 55 19:11:52 How fast will a programmable clock divider be in FPGA? 19:12:06 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:14:36 always@(posedge Clock) if(|Count) Count<=Count-1; else fork Count<=Period; Out<=~Out; join Probably something like this, I guess (or is there a better way?) 19:15:02 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:18:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:20:02 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:23:57 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:24:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:24:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:30:52 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 19:32:22 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Client Quit). 19:32:41 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:33:40 I think I'll go back to working on my Lisp interpreter 19:35:42 Hey, if the halting problem were solved, it'd be easy to solve things like the collatz conjecture, right? 19:36:27 no 19:36:39 The halting problem is not a quandary to be solved. It is not P=?NP. 19:36:49 atriq: assuming you could solve it for programs using the method. 19:36:49 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:36:55 However, if the halting problem were SOLVABLE, lots of things would be... different. 19:36:58 @messages 19:36:58 Halite said 11h 27m 7s ago: 1) That's true, sadly. But if your imagination touches the wildly syntaxed, you can get interesting syntax. 2) What a good fact. I shouldn't be reading the books kmc told 19:36:59 me to read online, to create a genuinely new idea. 19:37:02 collatz is not finitely refutable 19:37:16 but goldbach and RH are... 19:37:28 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 19:37:33 You could just write a program to test the collatz chains of increasing integers and see if it halts, couldn't you 19:37:36 hi oerjan 19:37:42 hi tromp_ 19:37:56 i told Taneb his Nora implementation appears to be buggy 19:38:02 he said you wrote it 19:38:08 oerjan: what was your #2 again, i just want to confirm that halite said something dumb out of his own volition rather than yours 19:38:34 you have no upper bound on chain length 19:39:22 atriq: you would need to use the halting solution to check each number, and then use the halting solution on the infinite loop of programs constructed that way. but if you could do that, you could solve collatz. 19:39:50 Bike: i am going to have to check 19:40:22 `pastelogs @tell halite 19:41:09 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.359 19:41:46 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 19:43:05 Bike: well he seems to miss the part that my (1) implies he _should_ read books. 19:43:34 oh "interesting syntax" 19:43:35 god 19:44:21 I don't aim for originality. 19:44:31 Luigi is really unoriginal, as is MIBBLLII 19:45:02 And Real Fast Nora's Heair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is Binary lambda calculus mixed with BIT 19:45:33 @tell halite I was implying that syntax is rarely very interesting, even if weird. And if you want to actually get interesting syntax you are going to need to read books about parsing theory. 19:45:34 Consider it noted. 19:46:06 Interesting syntax: mixed prefix/postfix/infix? 19:46:14 Who knows 19:46:23 re Halite: wat 19:46:44 @tell halite Syntax can add flavor to a language, but it will not be truly interesting without another fundamental idea. 19:46:45 Consider it noted. 19:47:13 atriq: not sufficiently advanced parsing theory, sorry 19:47:20 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:47:38 Perhaps one day I should read up on parsing theory 19:48:20 Good night! 19:48:45 Night 19:48:52 I do think many things can be made as a halting problem, such as Fermat's Last Theorem, and possibly a large number of other things can be made as a program which you figure out if it halts or not. It can also be done that a proof of some theorem is also allow you to know that it halts or it doesn't halts. Even things like 2+2=4 like while(2+2!=4); It halts because 2+2=4 19:49:02 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:49:51 i wanna be smart and interesting but i don't want to read any books or listen to what anyone else has to say waaah waaah 19:50:02 jesus 19:50:07 kids these days, get off my lawn, &c. 19:50:18 tromp_: wait what do you mean by chain length, i though i was checking for exceeded depth in the interpreter during parsing... 19:51:07 oerjan: I'm not 100% sure; I think if the syntax is sufficiently complex, you might be able to get away with just concat and eval for making a language TC 19:51:15 via concat completely changing the meaning of the rest of the code 19:51:23 obviously, complex syntax without eval is pointless 19:51:35 oerjan, that was a comment about collatz problem 19:51:46 kmc: "Nothing is more usual and more natural for those, who pretend to discover anything new to the world in philosophy and the sciences, than to insinuate the praises of their own systems, by decrying all those, which have been advanced before them." here now you have an old quote to pretentiously quote at people 19:52:11 thanks Bike 19:52:20 who says? 19:52:22 hume 19:52:24 i guess this is not a new phenomenon 19:52:32 it's also one of the canonical signs of a crackpot 19:52:42 Hu, me? 19:52:47 owww 19:52:51 oerjan: the nora implentation failed on a port of the BLC prime number sieve 19:53:08 kmc: speaking of books, apparently hard copies of the gigantic mega intel manuals exist 19:53:12 http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/IntelSDM 19:53:20 Intel sells them through a print on demand service XD 19:53:35 tromp_: oops? 19:53:51 * boily hits shachaf with a properly dulled cast iron bludgeon with a quarter-inch polystyrene padding 19:54:54 oerjan: Maybe you should swat someone sometime. 19:55:00 Or hit them with the pan. 19:55:12 It's been decades (practically). 19:55:58 ais523: ok obviously it is _possible_ to make interesting syntax. 19:56:49 but yes, mostly it's for flavour 19:56:55 or recognisability 19:56:57 Fiora: I heard you used to be able to order them for free 19:57:02 really? wow 19:57:05 i know people who aren't even that old & crufty who got copies this way 19:57:19 say, Forte would still work even if it didn't look like BASIC 19:57:31 I'd worry about export restrictions. given their size they must classify as weapons :p 19:57:33 but having it look like something familiar makes it easier to grasp how it works 19:57:41 free books are useful, you can use them as food for mushrooms 19:58:08 AVX mushrooms 19:58:15 yes 19:58:21 i heard you used to be able to order monoids for free 19:58:23 converting digikey catalogs into food 19:58:29 but it's a scam -- they're actually free commutative monoids 19:58:31 this will be the new survival skill in the postapocalyptic future 19:58:40 vpermushroomd 19:58:41 except you need like a pressure cooker and good sterile technique and stuff 19:58:44 ++++ 19:59:00 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 19:59:02 kmushroomd 19:59:10 Is a free commutative monoid like a multiset? 19:59:25 sounds like one 19:59:42 and a free monoid is just a list / string 20:00:07 Haskell should rename [] to FreeMonoid to emphasize the language's rich mathematical underpinnings 20:00:15 plus, who doesn't like free things 20:00:17 sort of related: vpshufb dst, src, mask vpshufd dst, src, mask vpermq dst, src, mask vpermd dst, mask, src I don't think Intel believes in consistency 20:00:23 Sadly Haskell is bad at free commutative monoids. 20:00:27 Fiora: D: 20:00:37 do I even want to know if the difference is reflected in AT&T syntax 20:00:49 (I can see the logic: it lets you do vpermd dst, mask, [src], so you can load-shuffle, but....) 20:01:00 However you can use this representation: newtype Bag a = Bag { runBag :: forall r. CommutativeMonoid r => (a -> r) -> r } 20:01:01 (since only the rightmost can be a memory operand) 20:01:09 but gosh. the /inconsistency/ gets me 20:01:13 But it's awful. 20:01:16 is a free commutative monoid a quotient of a free monoid by a permutation group? 20:01:30 is this a meaningful thing to say 20:01:39 I spent like 30 minutes trying to figure out why my avx2 code wasn't wrking when I first encountered vpermd 20:01:45 and then I finally looked up the definition 20:01:47 kmc: sounds cromulent 20:01:48 and I was like whaaaaaaattttt 20:02:08 i want to see a graph of the number of pages in the Intel manual over time 20:02:21 oh Fiora have you done anything with the VMX virtualization instructions? 20:03:03 nope, I've never written code for a VM or something like that, I have only the foggiest idea of how they work 20:03:06 they seem really complicated 20:03:08 yep 20:03:39 kmc: It could be renamed to FreeMonoid, although List is shorter. But I do think that [] ought to be a macro which is an alias for that type and that value. 20:03:41 one neat / strange thing about them is that they provide a hardware-defined way to write pretty much all of the ISA-level processor state out to memory 20:03:48 because that's how you context switch between VMs 20:04:00 ooh. so like, more than xsave+friends? 20:04:04 it includes some things that normally aren't directly accessible, like the segment descriptors that have been loaded by segment selectors 20:04:09 yeah I think so 20:04:26 kmc: when your algebra isn't a group you take quotients by congruences instead of kernels. 20:04:30 I can't find them in the regular instructino reference... >_< 20:04:34 Fiora: why can't i get intel_combined_manual.pdf as one book :'( 20:04:53 shachaf: I think it might collapse into a black hole in trasit 20:04:54 *transit 20:04:59 It's only 4128 pages. 20:05:06 oh. 3A-3C not 2A-2C... 20:05:18 And they're not even huge pages. 20:05:26 is that a pun 20:05:27 So it's just ~16MB 20:05:36 harr harr 20:05:37 the super high level overview of VMX is, you point the CPU at such a structure, you invoke the VMENTER instruction, then it runs using that state, and eventually returns and you can inspect the state and see what happened 20:05:53 there are various conditions that will cause it to exit virtualization, analogous to traps 20:06:22 1378 pages @_@ 20:06:26 I don't know much about the details though, just skimmed some of the manual when trying to fix a Ksplice bug 20:06:49 hack the planet! 20:07:00 Fiora, that's significantly less than Homestuck 20:07:01 "A logical processor usesvirtual-machine control data structures(VMCSs) while it is in VMX operation. " 20:07:43 oh wow, the structure is impleemntation-specific XD 20:07:57 one of these days I should modify my copy of JOS (the 6.828 toy OS) to support harware virtualization 20:08:00 that sounds like a fun project 20:08:09 oh Fiora have you seen http://www.returninfinity.com/pure64.html 20:08:49 virtualization is sort of boringly close to normal multi-tasking and protection 20:09:05 another silly thing I want to make is a 64-bit multitasking OS that fits in a DOS MBR boot sector 20:09:14 olsner: yes but a lot more complicated and therefore more secure (????????) 20:09:15 (in principle, that is... of course they use completely different mechanisms for hysterical raisins) 20:10:13 " 3) VMFUNC is an operation provided by the processor that can be invoked from VMX non-root operation without a VM exit." oooh 20:10:58 is that for hypercalls? 20:11:07 (back in ~1h, gotta do an interview) 20:11:17 I'm guessing? or maybe like instructions that'd require host emulation 20:11:19 good luck!! 20:11:54 hmm, the bochs code that emulates vmfunc makes it look pretty limited 20:12:01 MBR code is not really specific to DOS; it is a function of a PC, isn't it? And the MBR code is very small so a 64-bit multitasking OS probably won't fit, although there are many things that might fit. One thing I want to make in there, but possibly adding another sector, is a subset of the DOS functions and one COM program is then added on to make a bootable disk image (not all COM programs will run, of course) 20:12:36 I think Esoteric Verilog needs a "quwire" command, although I am not entirely sure how it would work. 20:12:58 Mostly because I don't know much about quantum computer hardware. 20:14:17 hi GOMADWarrior, please do not troll #haskell 20:14:27 (http://code.metager.de/source/xref/bochs/bochs/cpu/vmfunc.cc) 20:15:06 I didn't 20:15:54 guys are too serious 20:16:48 hmm, otoh, EPTP switching sounds like it's a replacement for setting cr3 which probably requires a "help, privileged instruction" vmexit 20:19:04 Oops they are removing the Nostalgia skin from Wikipedia 20:23:23 I restored all the old quotes. 20:23:31 s/all/some of/ 20:23:33 @quote oerjan 20:23:33 oerjan says: @. read run (\s -> s ++ show s) "@. read run (\\s -> s ++ show s) " 20:23:40 @. read run (\s -> s ++ show s) "@. read run (\\s -> s ++ show s) " 20:23:41 what happened to the quotes? 20:23:42 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:23:42 @. read run (\s -> s ++ show s) "@. read run (\\s -> s ++ show s) " 20:23:47 lambdabot happened 20:23:49 @quote kmc 20:23:49 kmc says: Rule number 1 of Haskell talks: use Comic Sans MS. 20:23:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:24:47 @quote Taneb 20:24:47 Taneb says: lens has got to be the only library with more contributors than people who know how it works 20:25:14 @quote atriq 20:25:14 atriq says: My son looks a bit like me, he can put away the plates after dinner now thanks to edwardk! 20:25:33 I think that's something to do with lens 20:26:39 you son? do you have children? 20:26:48 *your 20:27:12 I do not 20:27:18 btw, new Enigma version released 20:27:39 they announced it yesterday in the hope that nobody would believe it, but I checked the repo and there was a bunch of activity 20:27:55 Oh no! 20:28:08 We'll have to figure it out without Turing, I guess. 20:28:42 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:30:25 @quote welsh 20:30:25 No quotes match. Sorry. 20:30:54 in all the years of #haskell no-one's made fun of the welsh yet? 20:33:25 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:34:57 `quote welsh 20:34:59 816) !rot13 Fluttershy Rainbow Dash Rarity Applejack Twilight Sparkle Pinkie Pie Syhggreful Envaobj Qnfu Enevgl Nccyrwnpx Gjvyvtug Fcnexyr Cvaxvr Cvr oh, they're all named after rot13'd welsh words \ 939) as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just lik 20:35:14 `quote 939 20:35:15 939) as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just like welsh ll" or "that's just like klingon tlh" 20:41:07 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 21:01:41 back 21:01:53 `quote back 21:01:55 76) let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 136) Vonlebio: well, i'm only back in denmark because my work visa expired. please insert token to continue. \ 210) I need a new desktop background j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spi 21:02:24 zzo38: you're right, it's part of the IBM PC platform. i guess I said "DOS MBR" because that's the colloquial name used for the partition table format in e.g. Linux kernel, even though clearly the BIOS needs to know this format as well 21:03:26 doesn't the bios just load the first sector of the drive to a well-known location and jump to it? I don't think it has to mess with the partition table at all 21:03:52 (presumably the MBR has the stuff for finding a bootable partition and chainloading and whatnot) 21:05:21 well I think the format is actually: 446 bytes of ia16 machine code; partition table; magic string 0x55 0xAA 21:05:33 and the BIOS will look for the latter even if it doesn't care about the partition table 21:06:29 (well the first part doesn't have to be all machine code, just the first instruction :) 21:07:19 you should make a polyglot mbr 21:07:27 how does that work 21:07:53 how do mbr-ish things on systems other than IBM-PC-DOS-compatible-etc. work 21:07:55 I wonder if it's even possible to make a combination polyglot arm/x86 program 21:07:58 or something similar 21:08:04 Fiora: I think I've seen one 21:08:08 wow 21:08:23 -!- Canaimero-04c1 has joined. 21:08:23 x86 has a lot of 1 byte relative jumps 21:08:33 wait maybe I wrote one... 21:08:36 ah, so you could just jump to a separate x86 chunk of code 21:08:40 yep 21:08:42 using a jump that gets interpreted as some other valid instruction on arm 21:08:47 I guess that's kind of cheating XD 21:08:58 Cheating is the point. 21:09:39 that's how my Haskell - C - Python - Sh - Brainfuck - .COM file polyglot works 21:09:55 .... com file? XD 21:10:08 e0 is loop on x86 and (iirc) the first byte of an unconditional arm instruction, so if you assume something about cx that might get you going 21:10:09 yeah a COM file is just raw ia16 machine code 21:10:12 at most 64kB of it 21:10:14 kmc: You should get a .com domain name and serve it from there. 21:10:15 no header 21:10:27 loaded at a fixed address 21:11:11 my program starts with 'or bh, [bx+si+0x78]; jno 0x42' 21:11:33 and 'or' sets OF=0 unconditionally 21:11:38 I like the DOS .COM executable format; it is good. My also computer I plan to make (codenamed POWERXY) also I intend to use headerless executable format, but without processor segments. 21:11:40 I,I x86 has a 1-byte relative jump with offset 0 21:12:50 oh this also entailed making a printable-chars-only .COM file 21:13:03 O_O that's like the no null rule of shellcode, except worse 21:13:08 echo 'h<|XP- {P_X(%GGG(%GGWZ- sh LI!XI!Hello, DOS!$' > hello.com && dosbox hello.com 21:13:21 -!- Canaimero-04c1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:13:24 It's much worse -- I think you can't do it without self-modifying code, or something. 21:13:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:13:31 that's.... wooow 21:13:32 yeah mine has some 21:13:51 this is getting dangerously close to being on-topic 21:13:55 for one wargame puzzle I had to construct shellcode where every other 16-bit word was 0 21:14:06 @___@ 21:14:06 Unknown command, try @list 21:14:12 gosh I should try one of those sometime, those sound fun 21:14:14 what does that do in x86? some sort of boring arithmetic instruction, isn't it? 21:14:17 even if they're probably mostly beyond me 21:14:37 Fiora: http://io.smashthestack.org:84/ 21:14:58 kmc: was that utf-32 or something 21:15:00 ais523: what does which do? 21:15:07 kmc: 16 bits of zeroes 21:15:09 shachaf: no although I started trying to do the same thing before for utf-32 21:15:30 it's add [eax], al 21:15:38 right 21:15:43 which means eax does need to point to a valid bit of memory that you don't mind clobbering 21:15:51 yeah 21:16:08 that doesn't seem so nasty 21:16:09 i should install udcli in HackEgo 21:16:35 ais523: yeah I just put 'mov eax, ebp' as the first instruction 21:16:39 `run cabal install hdis86 21:16:40 bash: cabal: command not found 21:16:43 kmc: ooh, neat 21:16:55 ebp is guaranteed to be valid, and yet you don't have to use it for anything 21:16:56 then i had to build the payload (just an indirect jump actually) out of 1-2 byte instructions but that wasn't so bad 21:17:11 kmc: I'm reminded of writing printable .COM files 21:17:13 since you have a 2-byte mov to bh/bl and a 1 byte push and pop 21:17:16 and a 2 byte shift 21:17:18 the idea being that you don't have any uudecode on DOS by default 21:17:24 so the first step would be to type the program in :) 21:17:24 ais523: yeah 21:17:36 -!- Canaimero-04c1 has joined. 21:17:36 the main difficulty there is that you don't have any control flow instructions 21:17:48 so you have to modify your own code to put a jump instruction there 21:18:19 Or you could find some indirect jump instruction and use that? 21:18:21 Fiora: the io wargame is really fun, and it starts out pretty accessible even if you don't have lots of exploit experience 21:18:35 shachaf: all the control flow instructions in x86 are unprintable, I think 21:18:49 there are a few levels in there that count as among the most fun programming challenges i've done 21:18:51 ais523: Oh, you're back to printable code. 21:18:57 :o 21:19:15 ais523: Right, I seem to remember that that wasn't possible without self-modifying code. 21:19:16 * Fiora will definitely go try that later 21:19:35 ais523: nah, the relative conditional jumps are printable 21:19:37 -!- monqy has joined. 21:19:43 kmc: which characters? 21:19:59 Oh, maybe I'm thinking of alphanumeric. 21:20:00 713d is jno 0x42 21:20:03 I remember I worked it out in reverse, by writing out a bunch of printable characters then disassembling 21:20:05 which is ASCII "q=" 21:20:08 right 21:20:12 yeah i did that too 21:20:19 jno = jump if not odd? jump if not over? 21:20:25 x86 conditional jumps annoy me a lot 21:20:35 due to having ridiculous names 21:20:46 not overflow 21:20:48 oh, or jump on no overflow? 21:20:52 my printable com file doesn't have jumps though https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/2971501 21:20:59 but it's not a uudecoder or anything, just a hello world 21:21:21 s/conditional jump/instruction mnemonic/? 21:21:58 Fiora: also a while back there was http://io.smashthestack.org:84/intro/ 21:21:59 int is a jump! 21:22:11 fizzie: u-psud.fr definitely works now (for the xkcd thing) 21:22:29 but I think he removed a restriction or something 21:22:44 shachaf: apparently they also did http://io.smashthestack.org/arm/ 21:22:49 oh FreeFull entered into this one? cool 21:23:17 =P 21:23:20 Oh, I didn't hear about that. 21:23:21 let me rephrase that - one of the schools in the list if cuntfisting.com so he most definitely removed all restrictions on domain names 21:23:33 kmc: My entry was far from the best =P 21:23:46 Koen_: a prestigious institution of higher learning 21:24:17 wow they've gotten spammed recently 21:24:18 who do I send my application to? 21:24:32 seems to be mostly porn sites now 21:24:39 also, why are there so many people with exactly 409 bits wrong? 21:24:47 is their some trivial algorithm to get 409? 21:25:04 I entered a random string and I got 529 or something 21:25:06 i don't think there's any algorithm 21:25:09 what's that xkcd about? the image doesn't load 21:25:18 i think probably somebody found a 409 solution and sumbitted it a bunch of times 21:25:26 reversing a hash? 21:25:36 yeah 21:25:41 kmc: What I did is display RGB shaded circles moving out 21:25:46 But then apply xor to make it funky 21:25:57 the comic is too complicated for me 21:26:07 but apparently there's a reversing a hash contest going on 21:26:10 ais523: if you get smallest hamming distance to the hash output listed at http://almamater.xkcd.com/ then your school gets in panel 1 of the strip 21:26:17 kmc: right 21:26:25 ooooh 21:27:11 Even the Nostalgia skin in Wikipedia now is adding too many things, and yet they will remove it anyways; I think something like this would be better: http://sprunge.us/Jgci 21:27:35 -!- kwikrick has joined. 21:27:54 zzo38: you can use myskin, that has no styling by default, you add the styling yourself 21:28:27 (hmm... the timely xkcd thing is still going strong. what the fungot is going on, I wonder...) 21:28:28 boily: what is up with this: 21:28:38 fungot: well, that's what I'm asking for. 21:28:38 boily: fnord is executed just before the tilt. oleg is very good, either. 21:29:03 fungot: I concur, but what relation has type hackery to a very, very slow comic? 21:29:04 boily: not any extant ones. they should know better, i'd use that. but as far as rsbac is concerned, so you 21:29:12 ~duck rsbac 21:29:14 RSBAC is an open source access control framework for current Linux kernels, which has been in stable production use since January 2000. 21:29:29 fungot: rsbac 21:29:29 olsner: hello. anyone know of a tool for exploration of ideas". i guess 21:29:33 ~duck INTERCAL 21:29:34 INTERCAL is an esoteric programming language that was created as a parody by Don Woods and James M. Lyon, two Princeton University students, in 1972. 21:29:34 yet again I'm confused. 21:30:08 ais523: They still add all sorts of CSS and JavaScripts; I don't want styling at all, whether I add it myself or not. 21:30:15 theory: ~duck asks duckduckgo for information about a topic, duckduckgo gets it from wikipedia 21:30:27 zzo38: you could disable css and js in the browser 21:30:27 Koen_: Yes, and consequently the best.csv now has all kinds of things that are not universities. 21:30:45 Like a Finnish computer game magazine. 21:30:57 I wonder who's responsible for that! 21:31:46 you know what? sound is too approximate 21:31:57 Yes, I could, but still, those skins require it (even Nostalgia requires it, although it is otherwise the best one) 21:31:58 I can't hear something, then reproduce it well enough for people to understand, necessarily 21:33:22 There's also quite a lot of porn-sounding domains. 21:33:34 noooooooo 21:33:40 ~duck sounding 21:33:40 Sounding generally refers to a mechanism of probing the environment by sending out some kind of stimulus. 21:33:42 they sound like legit schools 21:34:05 Koen_: Well, yes, I guess analbabez.com is a university of good reputation, sure. 21:34:19 The reason we have used the Nostalgia skin is because we don't *want* the new features of MediaWiki! 21:34:20 hey if cuntuniversity.com isn't a legit school 21:34:25 then I don't know what to believe 21:34:26 ~duck pen island problem 21:34:26 --- No relevant information 21:34:27 it's just a weird transcription for Babylone 21:35:44 Even so, MySkin is also being removed! 21:37:28 kmc: um, so, like, once I ssh in, how do I play? 21:40:26 boily: that "where is the river now? / still pretty far away, it's actually retreated a little this week" comment makes me think they're gonna be flooded 21:41:16 I am not the only one to complain about this. Many people do. 21:42:06 zzo38: having your skin removed is generally a good source of vocal complains. 21:42:34 Koen_: I just skim updates about once a day. still have no clue where it's going. 21:47:07 boily: well nethackwiki moved away from wikia because they tried to force a skin on us we didn't like 21:48:10 ais523: nethack is serious matters, and wikia tends to be generally evil. 21:48:20 they didn't used to be, but they've got increasingly evil recently 21:55:06 back when wikia search existed, it was the least evil search engine 21:55:15 and was also very valuable due to having different results than other engines 21:55:38 I told them I might maintain it since nobody else does, but they don't want that. 21:58:36 btw, mechanical translator annoyance: you enter a word into the translator, get the same word back, and eventually discover that the word exists in both languages with the same meaning but you'd never heard of it 22:00:03 Solution: Use languages with different alphabets. 22:00:23 Fiora: try to exploit the binary /levels/level01, which is setuid to user level02 22:00:47 kmc: it'd be hilarious if someone found an exploit for the OS and skipped past every level that way 22:00:59 Fiora: there's a useful README in your homedir too 22:01:19 ais523: yeah 22:01:23 it's pretty locked down, but not impossible 22:01:29 "bash: /bin/ls: cannot allocate memory" what O_O 22:01:40 yeah, sometimes the server is hosed :/ 22:01:57 if you run into persistant problems, join the IRC server and yell at them 22:02:04 oh geez,and trying to reconnect gets "shell request failed on channe 0" <_> 22:02:11 bla or whoever's running the game these days will go kill a bunch of bruteforcer programs ;P 22:02:25 yeah, having a publicly accessible shell account is often a bad idea ;) 22:02:29 what exactly do you mean by exploit? like, it looks to be programs asking for passwords 22:02:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: お休み！). 22:02:40 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:46 yeah for level01 you just need to figure out the right password 22:02:55 oh. so um, just objdump it and look at the asm? 22:03:03 yep :) 22:03:07 ... oh 22:03:35 in later levels you'll often need to convince the app to run arbitrary code by overflowing a buffer or something 22:03:41 ahhh okay 22:03:58 but there are other levels where the binary is a verifier for some completely unrelated challenge 22:04:05 like 'construct a string with property X' 22:04:09 i won't spoil it with more details ;) 22:04:15 there's also some reverse engineering 22:04:34 a few remote exploits, a few challenges to build exploits against old versions of real programs 22:06:09 good stuff 22:06:31 okay yay level 1 done 22:07:04 I think you can also use strings to find the password. 22:07:27 I don't think so with level 1; it moved each byte into memory manually 22:07:32 it didn't store it in .data 22:07:38 Oh. 22:07:42 Maybe I'm thinking of a different game. 22:11:58 okay so I won level 2, and it gave me a shell, what do I do with this shell? like I'm guessing there's supposed to be a password I have rights to now but I don't know >_< 22:12:55 cat /home/level3/.pass 22:13:00 then log back in as level3@whatever 22:13:02 ohhhhh 22:13:05 I see 22:13:41 spoilers kmc 22:13:49 this is the real challenge 22:14:18 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:17:27 -!- Canaimero-04c1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:18:19 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 22:21:48 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:22:30 -!- kwikrick has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:22:48 \ldots 22:31:49 geez, how am I supposed to input non-printable characters in a bash prompt? 22:33:35 ah! xxd can go backwards 22:34:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:36:21 wow I just don't know bash 22:36:50 * Fiora gives up 22:39:07 no you must persevere 22:39:08 "echo: no such file or directory" aghaksjdfskjdls 22:39:10 do this whatever it is 22:39:53 * Fiora actually gives up, I don't actually know enough linux to do it... 22:43:37 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5482649 22:43:45 i use base64 for that 22:43:49 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:43:51 um, but. how 22:45:00 Fiora: ctrl-v 22:45:02 echo G1szMW1oZWxsbyBGaW9yYRtbMG0K | base64 -d 22:45:07 or your terminal might let you 22:45:11 or i would do like, base64 -d > foo; *paste into terminal*, ^D 22:47:25 but how do I input it to the program 22:47:49 redirection? 22:47:57 /levels/level3 $(base64 -d < $(echo blahblahblahblah))??? 22:48:17 /levels/level3 $(echo blahblah | base64 -d) 22:48:21 actually probably 22:48:22 oh 22:48:24 /levels/level3 "$(echo blahblah | base64 -d)" 22:48:36 it doesn't take its input on stdin? how dastardly 22:48:56 a lot of mine were like /levels/level3 "$(perl -e 'print "x" x 1023'; cat shellcode)" 22:49:12 ? 22:49:19 where 'shellcode' was a file I already transferred using base64 -d > shellcode 22:49:25 i think you can SCP things too 22:49:49 also, I would typically make a directory for myself under /tmp for each level 22:49:54 and stage things there 22:50:09 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 22:51:25 'base64: invalid input" 22:53:06 gahhhh 22:53:17 um, it won't let me write to tmp 22:53:44 I,I /levels/level3 $'a[\xab\xcd\x08...' 22:53:53 you can't ls /tmp but you can make a directory there and then cd to it 22:53:53 @_@? 22:53:54 Maybe you meant: ? @ 22:53:56 at least I just did 22:54:01 yeah, Bash has this syntax shachaf mentions 22:54:02 $'' is the best thing 22:54:06 i think I didn't know about it when I was doing IO 22:54:08 I don't understand 22:54:38 mkdir /tmp/foo 22:54:43 /tmp/fooöra 22:54:44 what does I,I mean 22:54:51 `run echo $'\x68\x65\x6c\x6c\x6f\x20\x77\x6f\x72\x6c\x64' 22:54:52 i have no idea what I,I means 22:54:53 hello world 22:55:00 I an completely lost 22:55:01 *am 22:55:01 i,i means "i have no point, I just like saying" 22:55:13 it's not a UNIX command, it's a weird chat idiom of MIT and CMU people 22:55:18 and shachaf 22:55:19 Ask It's an owl face. 22:55:22 and kmc 22:55:24 who is from everywhere 22:55:24 yes I can echo it but I want to run it as a command argument and that doesn't work!! 22:55:32 everywhere and nowhere 22:55:44 level3@io:~$ xxd - < "$(echo AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 22:55:47 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHSEBAg= | ba 22:55:50 se64 -d)" 22:55:53 -bash: t▒: No such file or directory 22:56:01 oerjan: Fiora is infringing on your trademark hth 22:56:20 Fiora: oh, you can't have null bytes in command line arguments 22:56:27 also it's way too hot today 22:56:32 oh 22:56:35 also i saw 8 google street view cars what were they doing 22:56:54 * shachaf vanishes for a bit 22:56:59 that command actually would redirect xxd input from a file with a long name which is mostly nulls 22:58:16 agh. it's just completely ignoring my input. it's like the program isn't evn getting it 22:59:36 what's your command line now? 22:59:54 level3@io:~$ /levels/level03 "$(echo AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQ 22:59:57 EBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQF0hAQI | base64 -d)" 23:00:03 it's too long, it should at the very least just do -something- 23:00:13 but the program just totally ignores the input... 23:01:10 is there an actual line break after that Q? 23:01:14 um, no 23:01:22 but my terminal isn't wide enough... 23:01:32 ok 23:01:42 Fiora: that looks right to me 23:01:59 I mean, like. it should at the very last crash it 23:02:00 *least 23:02:03 maybe try gdb --args /levels/level03 "$(echo ... blah blah)" 23:02:49 bleh. gdb doesn't work because it quickly scrolls off the bottom of my terminal 23:03:02 and I need to use 'clear' to fix it and that doesn't work in gdb 23:03:41 what scrolls off? 23:03:43 hey Bike do you like kripke structures <-- i like kripke structures 23:03:48 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 23:03:54 um, the stuff, on the screen? I don't know how else to explain it @_@ 23:04:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:04:08 you know, it hits the bottom, and then everything just all collides on the last line 23:04:16 and the screen won't scroll 23:04:18 oh 23:04:25 why doesn't it scroll :/ 23:04:31 Fiora: try running "reset" while gdb is shut 23:04:52 and seeing if it works then 23:05:06 no... 23:05:22 oh dear 23:05:37 wait is this not the same as kripke semantics 23:05:41 try a different local terminal program I guess? 23:05:50 this is hardly like kripe semantics at all 23:05:51 um, what do you mean 23:05:57 you mean like,a different ssh client? 23:06:08 yeah 23:06:16 ... so um, instead of ssh...? 23:06:27 well are you running ssh inside xterm or gnome-terminal or what? 23:06:28 *that 23:06:36 um, inside of bash, I think 23:06:44 i'm confused but definitely things should scroll rather than mashing together on the same line 23:07:04 Fiora: What's your terminal emulator? 23:07:20 how do I even know 23:07:29 Uh... well are you doing this on Windows? 23:07:51 um, yes? 23:08:08 probably windows's terminal thing then, whatever that is 23:08:14 PuTTY is the only good SSH client I know of for Windows 23:08:26 -!- iamcal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:08:30 but it works just fine on everything else... 23:09:08 i don't know what specifically would cause the problem you're seeing, but I recommend PuTTY as the default Windows terminal window is really bad 23:09:11 oh, Windows terminal is broken 23:09:18 um, okay... 23:09:19 in fact I used to use PuTTY to log into a Cygwin sshd on localhost 23:09:25 for this reason 23:09:27 uh. wow. 23:09:32 although I think there's a clean way of doing that now 23:09:54 Does windows' terminal do ECMA-48 yet? 23:09:55 this one https://code.google.com/p/mintty/ 23:10:22 (or powershell or something) 23:10:55 * shachaf unvanishes for a bit. 23:11:36 Fiora: the terminal emulator is the program that runs an old-fashioned texty terminal inside your shiny modern graphical desktoppy thing. examples are xterm and gnome-terminal on linux and whatever windows does when you pop open a console window. 23:11:53 oh, but I was using cygwin 23:11:56 `addquote Bike: I think you're ready to learn about lens. oh god fiora help somebody help anybody 23:11:59 1006) Bike: I think you're ready to learn about lens. oh god fiora help somebody help anybody 23:12:10 oerjan: which one do you like kripke structures or kripke semantics 23:12:31 it sounds like Cygwin now ships Mintty, but I've also seen it used with the default Windows "running a DOS command" terminal emulator, which is shit 23:12:48 * Bike has no idea what cygwin does. go bike 23:12:57 shachaf: semantics 23:13:09 @quote kripke 23:13:09 monochrom says: There are truths, damn truths, and Kripke structures. 23:13:35 anyway I still recommend PuTTY, which is a standalone SSH client for Windows that is a GUI app as far as Windows is concerned, and has no interaction with the brokenness of terminals and terminal emulators on Windows 23:14:01 "This article describes Kripke structures as used in model checking. For a more general description, see Kripke semantics." spooky 23:14:02 Wait, Fiora is using Windows with an SSH client that isn't PuTTY? 23:14:05 okay I'm using putty now... 23:14:08 2spooky i might say 23:14:54 back in a bit 23:15:15 Fiora: How do you normally SSH? 23:15:51 um, I start up a cygwin window and use ssh 23:15:55 putty is nice but it doesn't support my private keys 23:16:03 so I kind of end up having to use regular ssh 23:16:34 Oh. 23:16:40 PuTTY can import the private keys. 23:17:31 how @_@ 23:17:56 -!- ssue_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:18:10 PuTTY key manager thingy? 23:18:14 ??? 23:18:16 I don't remember. 23:18:17 "PuTTYgen" or some-such. 23:18:19 @google putty import ssh private keys 23:18:21 http://www.electrictoolbox.com/putty-rsa-dsa-keys/ 23:18:21 Title: Use RSA and DSA key files with PuTTY and puttygen 23:18:37 And then you put it in Connection/SSH/Auth/Private key file for authentication. 23:18:40 puttygen.exe, it looks like 23:18:58 Then you can load it into memory ssh-agent-style. Or something. I don't know. 23:19:37 It has a ssh-agent style thing (pageant.exe) too, but you can just put the keyfile in the config as above. 23:19:43 (Then it'll ask for the passphrase.) 23:19:47 That's the one. 23:19:59 Bike: do you think you're ready to learn about the Codensity monad......... 23:20:32 Personally, I just generate a new key with PuTTYgen for the Windows box, copy-paste the OpenSSH-compatible public key string that PuTTYgen has in a textbox into authorized_keys, and go with that. 23:20:35 -!- ssue_ has joined. 23:20:37 coyoneda 23:20:43 CoYoneda is easy. 23:20:52 Do you know how it works or should I explain it? 23:20:57 i have no idea 23:20:58 (But it's certainly possible to import OpenSSH-y private keys too.) 23:21:07 Or maybe neither? 23:21:20 okay that thing seems to work with the regular openssh keys? but not x.509 keys 23:21:41 CoYoneda is related to Functor. 23:21:42 You have X.509 certificates for SSH authentication? What are you, some kind of a madperson? 23:21:46 You like functors, right? 23:21:47 um, it's what they use at work 23:21:50 functors are cool. 23:22:24 Bike: So you remember the functor laws? 23:22:33 but I guess that works for normal ones, thanks... 23:22:34 fmap f (fmap g x) = fmap (f . g) x 23:22:43 fmap id x = x 23:22:44 yeah, and fmap id = id. 23:22:45 * Fiora sorry, a bit frantic at the moment 23:23:03 Bike: OK, so let's say you have some tree or something where the fmap operation is really expensive. 23:23:13 So you want to minimize the number of fmaps 23:23:26 k 23:23:37 So instead of fmap (+1) . fmap (*2) . fmap (^3), you'll want to say fmap (\x -> x^3 * 2 + 1) 23:23:51 Makes sense? 23:23:54 `slist 23:23:58 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:24:20 Yeah, sure. 23:24:23 Now let's say you want to pass this to some other function, and you don't know how many fmaps it'll be doing. 23:25:02 It makes sense to split it up into two pieces: Instead of just passing around (Tree Int), you can pass around (Tree Int, Int -> Char) 23:25:08 Where Char can be anything. 23:25:19 ... gah, it won't even let me write data in tmp 23:25:25 Then you can just compose more functions onto the (Int -> Char) part, and leave the (Tree Int) alone until the very end, when you can apply one big function. 23:25:40 makes sense. 23:26:04 So you can make a type like this: data TreeWrapper a = TreeWrapper (Tree Int) (Int -> a) 23:26:21 The interesting thing is that TreeWrapper is a Functor without ever using Tree's fmap. 23:26:24 Fiora: If the authentication is using the usual SSH public-key mechanisms (like it seems), you should be able to just http://trueg.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/use-an-x-509-certificate-for-ssh-login/ a X.509 cert it into an OpenSSH-compatible private key (slight modifications are needed, that guide makes a public key for authorized_keys) and then from there onwards import to puttygen. If you want to. 23:26:29 (Can you write the instance?) 23:26:34 Without /ever/? Not even at the end? 23:26:41 At the end, sure. 23:26:46 But not for instance Functor TreeWrapper 23:27:10 fizzie: I think that requires ssh being compiled with x509 support or something... I'm not sure >_< 23:27:53 let's see, i guess fmap f (TreeMapper t g) = TreeMapper t (g . f) or so 23:28:02 Fiora: Come to think of it, aren't the OpenSSH private keys already in PEM format? I would think you could just extract the private key with openssl from whatever you have (PKCS12?). 23:28:15 I-I don't really want to mess with that now... 23:28:41 Fiora: If it's some special kind of authentication mechanism, maybe it's special. Who knows. (You have a weird thing.) 23:28:56 i'm thinking it's (f.g) instead of (g.f), wait, does that make sense 23:29:03 and then you have runMapper (TreeMapper t f) = fmap f t 23:29:17 Bike: (f . g), not (g . f) 23:29:17 how did we end up on X.509 keys o_O 23:29:18 But yes. 23:29:24 Bah. 23:29:26 ok it does 23:29:35 oh not for io.sts 23:29:48 I always get confused about what order composition works in, for some reason. 23:29:54 Bike: OK, next step: data AnythingWrapper f a = AnythingWrapper (f Int) (Int -> a) 23:30:01 sure. 23:30:05 Same instance. 23:30:20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6187 -- huh. The more you know. 23:30:25 Bike: Last step: data Foo f a = forall x. Foo (f x) (x -> a) 23:30:26 It should be h(x) such that h(x) = f(g(x)) anyway 23:30:44 Bike: This uses an extension called ExistentialQuantification to hide which type the Int actually is. 23:30:57 Wait, why do you need to do that. 23:31:00 ghc -XExistentialDespair 23:31:09 Since you don't care that it's Int. You just care that it's *some* type x, and that you have a function :: (x -> a) 23:31:19 Yeah but like... why is there an extension. 23:31:32 Because that forall in data declarations isn't allowed in standard Haskell. 23:31:40 also 23:31:44 or rather "oh" 23:31:54 but also, what's existential about it? ...oh, wait, huh. 23:32:10 it's sort of an abuse of syntax to use 'forall' for existential types 23:32:15 but there's a sense in which it makes sense 23:32:15 that's pretty confusing for a universal quantifier though :/ 23:32:21 yeah i think i see it but still 23:32:24 Bike: It's existential because the type exists. 23:32:26 hth 23:32:29 thx 23:32:38 I can explain the relationship between forall and exists sometime if you like. 23:32:46 OK, so now you can write liftFoo :: f a -> Foo f a 23:32:51 And lowerFoo :: Functor f => Foo f a -> f a 23:32:52 blhhhhhrgh. i should read things about category theory but where do i start 23:33:00 a lobotomy 23:33:02 w----wikibooks?!! 23:33:15 nooodl__: what are you going for her 23:33:16 ee 23:33:18 here 23:33:18 nooodl__: start here https://twitter.com/copumpkin/status/302960443067101185 hth 23:33:22 shachaf: liftFoo doesn't require a functor? 23:33:29 Bike: Try it out! 23:33:31 if you say «data Foo = forall a. Bar (a -> Int)» then «Bar :: forall a. (a -> Int) -> Foo» 23:33:48 so it does produce a forall in the constructor type 23:33:55 quantifying on a variable that does not appear in the result type 23:34:05 So it... sends the client's X.509 cert (and intermediates etc.) to the server, which verifies that against a root, and accepts the public key based on that. Okay, yes; I don't think PuTTY supports that at all. 23:34:08 kmc: You know how turning an existential constraint into a universal constraint is just currying? 23:34:11 (A dependent type.) 23:34:11 yeah 23:34:16 That's the best thing. 23:34:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:34:26 monqy: what do you mean 23:34:57 Bike: So write liftFoo and lowerFoo 23:35:10 Bike: As you probably guessed, Foo is CoYoneda. 23:35:35 i didn't guess that. 23:35:40 Well, now you know. 23:36:22 Another perspective: data Foo f a = forall x. Foo (x -> a) (f x) 23:36:34 fmap :: forall x a. (x -> a) -> f x -> f a 23:36:45 So Foo just contains the two arguments to fmap. 23:37:03 This is why lowerFoo needs the Functor constraint -- it just applies fmap. 23:37:18 I guess I'm spoiling the exercise a bit. 23:37:29 oh. but it wouldn't be very useful if you started with something you couldn't fmap later though. 23:37:45 Well, usually not. But sometimes. 23:37:57 You can treat (CoYoneda IORef) as a read-only IORef, sort of. 23:38:10 Dude I don't even know what an IORef is. 23:38:13 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:38:13 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 23:38:14 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:38:15 Never mind, then. 23:38:23 Bike: However: When f is a Functor, CoYoneda f is isomorphic to f 23:38:40 This is called the Yoneda lemma -- or is a special case of it. Or something. 23:38:43 I don't know. 23:38:49 maybe monqy wants to take over here 23:38:50 what's yellow &c. 23:39:12 I'm just sitting here thinking it's great you're explaining this to me and all but I have written like twenty lines of haskell max, and I have a headache because a guy brought in five hundred pounds of unpackaged food and told us he was "sworn to secrecy" about where he got it, and, and, math is so hard ;_; 23:39:29 i'll summon monqy 23:39:35 HEY I THINK JAVASCRIPT IS A PRETTY OK LANGUAGE 23:39:45 Do you know how much food that is? Have you ever seen two hundred pounds of cheese in one place before 23:39:57 Bike: why are you friends with a professional food thief 23:40:04 better question: why am I not friends with a professional food thief 23:40:08 Bike: well this is what the poor perl person felt like when you were talking about functors 23:40:20 poorperlperson.tumblr.com 23:40:20 Bike: "maybe u'll think about ur actions next time" 23:40:28 He probably has seen two hundred pounds of cheese in one place before though. 23:40:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:40:54 Bike: btw Yoneda is like CoYoneda except backwards 23:41:00 i think if you go to a cheese shop you can see two hundred pounds of cheese p. easily 23:41:01 hth 23:41:06 yes yes we have to prepend Co- to everything to make it backwards 23:41:17 I think CoYoneda is more intuitive than Yoneda 23:41:19 Haskell the Hultimate 23:41:22 what does kmc think 23:41:39 imo instead of prefixing Co- people should write stuff backwards 23:41:44 shachaf: btw did you see KeithW et al's computer networking blog http://www.layer9.org/ "It's like a LAMBDA THE ULTIMATE but for NETWORKING RESEARCH" 23:41:47 i think probably i should actually learn group theory, and then i should figure out what yoneda has to do with that other Group Theory Thing 23:41:53 nooodl__: gb2shellprogramming 23:42:07 if ... then... coif 23:42:21 @remember ghc -XExistentialDespair 23:42:22 Nice! 23:42:23 and stuff that is its own dual should have palindrome names? 23:42:25 Bike: coif is a good word 23:42:31 exercise: define coelse 23:42:54 oerjan.............................. 23:43:00 @forget ghc -XExistentialDespair 23:43:00 Done. 23:43:04 Bike: Python has while..else, is that like coelse? 'imo no' 23:43:05 @remember kmc ghc -XExistentialDespair 23:43:05 It is stored. 23:43:17 oerjan: I went through dozens of these in the lambdabot quote database yesterday. 23:43:17 also for..else 23:44:10 yeah i remember forgetting how that works because i'm bad at python 23:44:26 imo it's because Python is bad at Bike 23:44:26 im bad at everything 23:44:30 it might be one of those features that is obscure enough that any code using it automatically qualifies as obfuscated 23:44:36 i think i used it.... once, maybe 23:44:36 Python is good at cheese shops though 23:44:36 shachaf: python is cobad at bike? 23:45:01 python is kobold 23:45:42 what's yellow &c. <-- a bananach space hth 23:46:08 nom 23:46:13 mpact cospace 23:46:30 shoulda just done like physics and thrown "anti-" everywhere 23:46:39 shachaf: I tried to convince geofft to port GPG to GRUB and/or UEFI 23:46:47 i think with Secure Boot, this is actually a useful and valuable thing 23:46:48 then you'd have to make jokes about nomies instead of about mpositions. 23:46:59 i hear "dual" isn't really the same as "opposite" though? 23:47:07 what is duality help 23:47:12 he keeps adding things to GRUB that look suspiciously like a userspace 23:47:24 i think if you go to a cheese shop you can see two hundred pounds of cheese p. easily <-- i have seen reliable evidence that cheese shops have no cheese hth 23:47:24 nooodl__: fun fact some 2-categories (or was it bicategories) have both duals and opposites 23:47:27 As far as I've heard "dual" basically means "it's useful to call it dual" 23:47:33 i think in another 10 years they will reveal that GRUB is secretly The GNU Kernel 23:47:38 so you have C C^op C^co C^coop 23:47:41 hi im back 23:47:46 shachaf: head = explod 23:47:49 Bike: duality is when you reverse the arrows 23:48:02 "coop" is cute 23:48:04 Bike: alt. the dual of a thing is that thing in the opposite category (i.e. you reverse the arrows) 23:48:10 oerjan.............................. <-- i remembered that the next second :( 23:48:19 uhhuh sure 23:48:22 anyway i started reading http://wwwhome.ewi.utwente.nl/~fokkinga/mmf92b.pdf yesterday but is it good??? imo it's not gentle at all 23:48:27 oerjan: The worst part is that evidence remains forever. 23:48:29 @quote 23:48:29 Plugin `quote' failed with: getRandItem: empty list 23:48:35 @quote somethingthatdoesntexist 23:48:35 No quotes match. My brain just exploded 23:49:16 kmc: still better than HURD yuk yuk 23:50:35 Maybe I'm thinking of something else entirely. 23:50:45 nooodl__: hey want a "ddariuscommendation" 23:50:52 shoulda just done like physics and thrown "anti-" everywhere <-- well there is anticommutative hth 23:50:55 in 1.13 it starts talking about "expressing concepts categorically" and it gives literally no examples, it just goes, here make these exercises, i cried & stopped reading 23:51:01 sure 23:51:05 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:51:11 23:36 shachaf: Awodey's book and/or Barr and Wells' ESSLLI lecture notes to start. 23:51:36 want some edwardkommendations 23:51:51 sure 23:52:31 -!- nooga has joined. 23:52:44 Oh, I know. 23:52:52 _Category Theory as Coherently Constructive Lattice Theory_ 23:54:05 ctcclt 23:54:56 oerjan: The worst part is that evidence remains forever. <-- i thought i saw something about some people cleaning up lambdabot. 23:55:22 oerjan: Yes, I cleaned up all the lambdabot quote database and gave it to Cale. 23:55:30 Now it's not going to be cleaned up again. 23:55:34 -!- heroux has joined. 23:55:46 there were literally no quotes before you did your thing........ 23:55:59 oerjan's a trendsetter 23:56:10 shachaf: i mean, actual code. 23:56:18 oh that 23:56:20 go for it 23:56:58 * oerjan hides behind his laptop that nearly explodes when updating lens 23:57:19 oerjan: What do you think: Yoneda or CoYoneda? 23:57:37 imoNeda 23:58:03 imhoTep 23:58:16 i think that's about the point where i drop out of category theory hth 23:58:22 the category of tepid swamps 23:58:32 oerjan: no not in category theory in haskell 23:58:45 ain't a clue to have 23:58:56 oerjan: newtype Yoneda f a = Yoneda { runYoneda :: forall b. (a -> b) -> f b } 23:59:13 oerjan: data CoYoneda f a = forall x. CoYoneda (f x) (x -> a) 23:59:38 when f is a functor it's isomorphic to Yoneda f and to CoYoneda f 23:59:45 so which one should i prefer 2013-04-03: 00:00:01 btw Bike did you write lift and lower for CoYoneda 00:01:59 He usually logreads, so perhaps no particular need to tell (or @tell). <-- well it went faster that way 00:02:34 oerjan: Didn't I ask you something while you were gone? 00:02:38 Did you logread it? 00:02:58 i don't get how liftFoo :: f a -> Foo f a makes sense actually. 00:03:17 Did you write it? 00:03:26 Try to write it with the Functor constraint. 00:03:37 Then you'll see how it works. 00:03:48 shachaf: #haskell took too much time 00:03:54 well i mean where's the function come from 00:03:58 Oh, right. That's what I asked. 00:03:58 or do you just throw in id or something 00:04:09 that's the puzzle 00:04:15 (the answer is yes) 00:04:23 shitty puzzle 00:04:30 Bike: What this does is turn zero or more applications of fmap into exactly one application. 00:04:47 Given the two functor laws, you can show that the end result is the same as what you'd've gotten anyway. 00:04:52 fmap id = id 00:04:59 fmap f . fmap g = fmap (f . g) 00:05:33 lift fuck = Foo fuck id, lower (Foo f a) = fmap a f 00:05:33 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:05:53 Yep. 00:06:10 So look at what you're doing -- Foo is literally holding the two arguments to fmap in a data structure. 00:06:13 That's all it is. 00:06:19 yes. 00:06:33 every time i learn a haskell thing i just think "well, that was simple" 00:06:36 (And a bit of type system nonsense to forget about the original type, since it don't matter.) 00:06:43 Bike: OK, now Yoneda. 00:06:53 (or not) 00:07:07 what, write it? 00:07:15 Er, if you want. 00:07:28 Where CoYoneda has the *arguments* to fmap, Yoneda has the *result* of fmap. 00:07:29 i have no idea how so i'm going to not do that atm 00:07:41 fmap :: forall a. forall b. (a -> b) -> F a -> F b 00:07:55 flip fmap :: forall a. F a -> (forall b. (a -> b) -> F b) 00:08:05 Yoneda F a = forall b. (a -> b) -> F b 00:08:05 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:08:21 With Yoneda, lift has a Functor constraint, but lower doesn't. 00:09:51 I guess you could say: fmap :: CoYoneda f a -> f a 00:09:55 fmap :: f a -> Yoneda f a 00:11:19 ok so with Yoneda you aren't guaranteed any elements even exist unless f is a functor, right? 00:11:34 but with CoYoneda you are 00:11:39 Right. 00:11:50 Well, there could still be inhabitants of Yoneda f a when f isn't a Functor. 00:12:00 But it won't be very well-behaved. 00:12:07 No guarantees, either way. 00:13:49 otoh with CoYoneda you aren't guaranteed that you can get any f element out of it again. 00:14:07 (unless f Functor) 00:14:17 Right. 00:14:40 I,I (>>=) :: m a -> Codensity m a 00:15:01 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:15:07 (=>>) :: Density w a -> w a 00:15:41 OKAY 00:16:06 Codensity is the same thing as Yoneda except for monads. 00:16:18 -!- augur has joined. 00:16:21 newtype Codensity m a = Codensity { runCodensity :: forall r. (a -> m r) -> m r } 00:16:47 data Density w a = forall x. Density (w x) (w x -> a) 00:23:17 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:24:31 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:30:09 -!- SDr has changed nick to SDr|LND. 00:31:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:31:58 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:33:15 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:36:12 -!- TheFreediver has joined. 00:40:13 -!- TheFreediver has left. 00:41:04 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:42:43 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:43:11 okay got the second admission test tomorrow morning 00:43:23 it's supposed to last ten minutes 00:44:09 and since the first test actually took 30 minutes instead of the whole hour they advertised... good luck having the motivation to wake up early just for five minutes of playing with tangrams 00:45:54 admission to what? 00:47:10 some computer science school 00:47:23 good luck 00:47:24 He's so excited about it he doesn't even remember its name. 00:47:31 the name is "42" 00:47:39 scss.edu 00:47:41 but "some computer science school" makes it look more serious 00:47:45 is it really 00:47:49 yes it is 00:48:20 42-grok-combinator-dojo.edu 00:48:30 just 42.fr 00:48:31 ok seriously though, what are you talking about 00:48:53 The SKI Institute of Lambda Calculus 00:48:58 well the guy who owns free decided he had so much money he could just create his own school just like that 00:49:09 you mean free.fr? 00:49:14 yup 00:49:22 i'm gonna level with you i thought that was a government service 00:49:28 haha 00:49:39 Bike it's france everything is a government service (zing) 00:49:41 no that's a telephone / internet company 00:50:04 apparently the guy became wealthy thanks to the sex minitel business 00:50:06 à prix incroyable, apparently 00:50:26 yeah they have a reputation like that 00:50:31 kmc: um, so I kind of let myself calm down and get less anxious by doing some other things, and so, I'm up to level 5 00:50:31 so what's the deal with this "computer science school" 00:50:37 Fiora: cool cool :) 00:50:40 my exploit works fine in gdb, but... it sigills outside of gdb? 00:50:41 is it 00:50:41 like 00:50:42 legit??? 00:50:54 I have no idea 00:50:54 they're named '42' as a clever reference to 'hacker culture' 00:50:56 (and in gdb it doesn't get me the level6 shell, just a level5 shell) 00:51:00 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:51:07 a clever reference to 'h2g2 culture' 00:51:10 Fiora: oh no 00:51:11 @wn sigil 00:51:13 No match for "sigil". 00:51:17 ???????????????????? 00:51:18 it's much worse than that 00:51:18 Fiora: yeah, programs running in a debugger lose setuid bits 00:51:20 ah, nerd culture strikes again 00:51:25 otherwise you could exploit them so easily 00:51:26 Fiora: gdb does all sorts of things to make debugging easy 00:51:31 every mail they sends me is full of 1337 crap 00:51:33 Fiora: Like disable ASLR and what not. 00:51:43 and other references to geek stuff 00:51:44 oh. the system has ASLR on? :< 00:51:48 does GDB actually disable ASLR? 00:51:51 are you sure they teach compsci and not like 00:51:54 and no, the io.sts system doesn't have ASLR enabled 00:52:00 idk something stupid 00:52:00 Koen_: wait wait wait, is this a for-profit school? 00:52:02 a few binaries have ghetto ASLR glued on 00:52:06 yeah, I ran my exploit like 100,000 times 00:52:06 you'll see it in the source 00:52:07 to be sure 00:52:07 because like... fuck that shit, you know? 00:52:17 anyway apparently you have to pass the tests online, and then if you pass you get a free course over the summer 00:52:18 Fiora: do you have a big NOP sled? 00:52:19 -!- eyni_espt has joined. 00:52:21 15h/day 00:52:23 ummmm no, no nop sled 00:52:25 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:52:29 how big should the nop sled be? 00:52:36 as big as you can get away with 00:52:38 and then if they still want you after that you get in the school starting november or something 00:52:41 4GB 00:52:44 i think i've put 1MB nop sleds on the command line 00:52:45 and it's supposedly all free 00:52:53 so I figured I could as well enter 00:53:14 but this is a 128 byte array I'm overflowing 00:53:37 are you asking for spoilers here :'( 00:53:39 and at the end I have to clobber a return value 00:53:46 n-no... I don't mean that...! 00:53:54 well you can just fuck memory right 00:54:01 fill that shit with xchg eax eax 00:54:02 be free 00:54:15 Fiora: yeah your shellcode might go in a different arg from the buffer overflow 00:54:18 or even in an env var 00:54:27 oh. 00:54:31 you just need to get that code somewhere in the process's address space, and guess its address 00:54:33 I thought you put the code in the buffer and then try to jump to it 00:54:42 and if you have a big nop sled then you don't need to guess too accurately 00:54:59 Fiora: that's often the case, with remote exploits especially, but not here 00:55:09 iim interested to see what "42" actually teaches, what "42" really is 00:55:10 -!- eyni_espt has left. 00:55:12 the great thing about setuid binaries is that the user^Wattacker controls so much of their execution environment 00:55:14 how would I iterate over a gazillion different addresses in my overflow to try it? 00:55:24 monqy: weeeeeeeell it's really really unclear 00:55:27 I guess perl magic or something 00:55:29 im betting it's a front for i-drugs. 00:55:30 you know 00:55:31 for like 00:55:33 i-dosing 00:55:34 I'm probably not interested 00:55:34 Fiora: i think you'll find that env vars are loaded at a roughly constant address 00:55:37 as is argv 00:55:44 gdb's results should be reasonable accurate there 00:55:49 (Codensity f) is not necessarily the same as f, but in some cases it is such as Identity or Finalize. Other times you get other existing monads such as (Codensity ((->) x)) making (State x). In all cases it makes a monad though, even if f isn't. 00:55:58 which will make it even harder to get up tomorrow morning :p 00:55:59 but yeah, you could use perl's pack function to generate a bunch of addresses 00:56:06 um, how would I look at an env variable in gdb? 00:56:09 kmc: A curious scientific phenomenonis that the fingernails grow after death. As does the beard. 00:56:09 "The answer to free, peer-to-peer IT courses and everything? For France, it's 42" why did i look this up 00:56:21 Fiora: *smack* 00:56:31 variable it's your own damn fault 00:56:32 When writing Linux programs meant as setuid I have tried to be careful to ensure that it won't cause a security issue 00:56:45 Bike: wow 00:56:54 monqy: that's a news article not the thing 00:56:56 Fiora: cat /proc/pid/environ hth 00:57:04 oww, what did I do :< 00:57:05 that doesn't give you the address of the environment array does it 00:57:11 the thing is http://www.42.fr/ supposedly but it doesn't seem up 00:57:15 Fiora: pinged 'em 00:57:20 level5@io:~$ cat /proc/pid/environ 00:57:21 cat: /proc/pid/environ: No such file or directory 00:57:21 Fiora: show environment var 00:57:34 /proc is the root of many bugs 00:57:49 Fiora: you can set with set environment foo = bar 00:57:52 Fiora: pid is something you replace with your pid 00:57:56 but the goal isn't to find out what's in the environment, the goal is to find the address of the environment array itself 00:57:58 yes but how do I know where the address is >_< 00:58:00 Bike: uuuuuh what have you done I can't log in to their site 00:58:06 but I don't know the pid 00:58:10 Koen_: i broke it. this cannot be allowed to stand. 00:58:10 Fiora: for some reason "p environ" isn't giving useful values in gdb :/ 00:58:20 Fiora: which architecture? 00:58:22 anyway it's usually right after argv 00:58:26 somewhere on the stack 00:58:28 yes but where is argv 00:58:31 Fiora: for the x86 its right before the argv 00:58:32 so you could break on main 00:58:33 I'm pretty sure there's a cheat folder to get your own pid but i forget it 00:58:39 Fiora: print &argv :) 00:58:39 um, kmc, I already did that... 00:58:42 oh it's self 00:58:43 that's how I got the current address... 00:58:46 and it's supposedly all free <-- so... did you happen to discover this yesterday? *cough* 00:58:48 but it doesn't work... 00:59:00 sorry, the day before yesterday 00:59:05 Fiora: you can turn on ASLR in gdb to get a "more realistic debugging experience" hth 00:59:06 Fiora: but did you try it with a huge nop sled + some fudging of addresses 00:59:08 oerjan: a week ago I think 00:59:09 s/ASLR/aslr/ 00:59:14 shachaf: but the machine has aslr off 00:59:20 It does? 00:59:21 fudging? 00:59:25 So why isn't it working without gdb? 00:59:26 kmc just said that it did... 00:59:33 I don't knowwwwwwwwwwwwww 00:59:34 imo investigate what's going on 00:59:35 that's what I am trying to ask 00:59:37 howwww 00:59:45 investigating what's going on is the whole point of these exercises imo 00:59:52 but, how 00:59:56 fudging meaning just try adjusting it 00:59:59 Bike: /proc/self is your own pid in rootmefs 01:00:09 but don't depend on that 01:00:10 I tried adjusting it up/down 16/32/48 ish manually 01:00:11 it didn't work 01:00:15 if your nop sled is 4 kB then try moving the address up and down in 4kB increments 01:00:18 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:00:21 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:00:24 but... I only have 128 bytes of room... 01:00:24 is rootmefs an insult 01:00:29 Bike: yeap 01:00:35 Fiora: no because you can put your shellcode in a separate argument or env variable 01:00:39 kay 01:00:41 but how ._. 01:00:48 * Sgeo decides to watch some Emo Philips 01:00:56 Bike: /proc has been the cause of many a linux kernel bug 01:01:03 I asked how to get the address of an environment variable but nobody answered me,.. 01:01:03 What's level05? 01:01:09 Fiora: I told you already 01:01:22 char buf[128]; strcpy(buf, argv[1]); ...? 01:01:37 Fiora: there is no *portable* way to get the address of "the envrionment"; you can cheat if you know the architecture 01:01:47 or you can usw show envrionemnt 01:01:58 ./foo "$(perl -e 'print "x" x 128; print "\xef\xbe\xad\x0b"')" "$(perl -e 'print "\x90" x 4096'; cat shellcode)" 01:02:01 Fiora: something like that 01:02:12 the first arg overflows the buffer and overwrites the return address 01:02:23 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:02:24 the second arg is ignored by the program, but gets your shellcode into its address space with a big nop sled 01:02:30 variable: I don't think /proc is relevant or helpful here 01:02:48 kmc: someone else mentioned it 01:02:54 is shellcode supposed to be a file...? 01:02:58 Fiora: in that case yeah 01:03:02 but I can't write files 01:03:05 at all? 01:03:08 no! 01:03:19 well that's not supposed to happen, but anyway, you could also do it inline 01:03:21 not in tmp not anywhere 01:03:36 Not in /tmp/Fiora? 01:03:40 no!!! 01:03:46 !!!!!! 01:03:55 fiora, it's alright 01:03:58 Fiora: you don't need the shellcode to be in a file 01:04:00 it just helps 01:04:07 Fiora: you could move the shellcode into the perl invocation, like the first one 01:04:28 but your example gives the program two arguments but it needs 1 01:04:42 * shachaf tries to connect 01:04:47 Did they change the passwords or something? 01:04:55 shachaf: they do change them periodically 01:05:01 you can get the new password in IRC 01:05:03 Hmph. 01:05:10 IRC? 01:05:16 Fiora: well does it actually refuse to run with 2 args, or does it just ignore the second one? 01:05:30 if it refuses to run, you can put that shellcode in an environment variable instead 01:05:48 um, it supports more, but... I don't get it 01:05:49 it just needs to end up somewhere in the process's address space, with a vaguely predictable address 01:06:06 so that you can overflow the buffer and make that function return to this address 01:06:10 Fiora: You just need the shellcode to be in the address space when the buffer overflows. It doesn't matter so much how it gets in. 01:06:18 but I already got it in 01:06:21 and I already checked the address 01:06:23 and I jump to it 01:06:34 I'm I'm lost 01:06:40 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 01:06:44 Fiora: but your address is probably slightly off, due to differences between gdb and non-gdb environment 01:06:49 that's the point of the NOP sled 01:06:56 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 01:07:01 means you don't need to be so precise guessing the address 01:07:36 and needing a big NOP sled is why you want to put the shell code in a separate arg / env var, rather than the buffer you're overflowing 01:09:42 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:09:44 btw I found that addresses would differ depending on whether I ran the program as ./level05 or /levels/level05 01:09:50 because that alters the length of argv[0] 01:09:59 but if your nop sled is big enough then this doesn't really matter 01:10:01 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:10:54 gdb always puts the full path in *argv 01:11:50 http://privatepaste.com/e72a7592bf bash doesn't seem to want me to do this... 01:11:52 with the $a and $b... 01:12:22 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:12:28 well it's inside a string that's single-quoted from the shell's perspective isn't it 01:12:36 oh... um 01:12:37 so those $a and $b are perl variables but not shell variables 01:12:39 how do I do that 01:12:43 I want to just bruteforce it 01:12:51 move the assignment into perl :) 01:12:57 ... I don't know any perl 01:13:05 good excuse to learn some 01:13:08 and um, I need to loop 01:13:13 I don't think I can loop inside that... 01:13:15 or python, or whatever simple thing. 01:13:19 perl has loops 01:13:23 Fiora: i did it without knowing any perl 01:13:24 sorry to state the obvious 01:13:41 Can't modify constant item in scalar assignment at -e line 1, near "FB;" 01:13:43 ._. 01:14:11 $a="\xFB"; maybe? 01:14:13 btw if I ssh to level1@io.smashthestack.org and then mkdir /tmp/esoteric_rulez and then cd /tmp/esoteric_rulez 01:14:14 Fiora: just pretend it's AVX2, hth 01:14:15 (i don't know perl either) 01:14:16 then i can create files there 01:14:21 kmc: ????? i can't 01:14:28 ok 01:14:32 not sure what I'm doing differently :( 01:14:38 level5@io:~$ touch /tmp/fiora/test 01:14:39 touch: cannot touch `/tmp/fiora/test': Permission denied 01:15:12 hm: mkdir: cannot create directory `/tmp/fiora': File exists 01:15:18 yeah, because I already made it... 01:15:21 ok 01:15:29 did you make it as a different user 01:15:36 you need one directory per level basically 01:18:01 -!- SDr|LND has changed nick to SDr. 01:18:37 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:18:43 -!- DH____ has joined. 01:19:47 At *least* one. 01:20:07 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:20:30 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:21:34 oh... 01:21:40 oh cool I can write c code now 01:21:56 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:22:04 You can always write C code locally and upload it via base64. 01:22:40 fiora proceeds to write a complete suite of tools for autogenerating shellcode instead of using perl 01:23:34 Fiora: i read that in the same tone as "i know kung fu" 01:23:48 shachaf: would that work? I mean, like, it wouldn't be compiled on the same system... 01:24:05 if only binaries could be compiled on one system and run on another 01:24:16 an innovation left for the 22nd century 01:24:17 you don't need to be sarcastic. 01:24:42 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:24:46 I thought linux wasn't that great at that... like you can't go and run some random gentoo binary on an ubuntu system and have it using an identical libc and stuff or something can you or am I totally confused 01:25:31 You can always write a program that doesn't use libc!! 01:25:37 The kernel ABI is very stable. 01:26:12 what I went and just like ran my original code that didn't work 01:26:13 and it worked 01:26:21 maybe it was because I had a different cwd? @_@ 01:26:22 programming defined :D 01:26:50 Fiora: Maybe it only works some of the time? 01:27:00 I ran it 5^5 times without success earlier... 01:27:07 Sometimes on games like this with ASLR I just ran my program a few thousand times until it worked. 01:27:11 Oh. 01:27:14 > 5^5 01:27:16 3125 01:27:28 actually I think I ran that loop like a few dozen times too so 01:27:37 um, bignum. 01:27:46 kmc: /levels/level05 "$(echo McBQaC8vc2hoL2JpbonjUFOJ4bALzYBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEDQ+/+/ | base64 -d)" 01:27:48 Bignum? 01:27:50 (that ended up doing it) 01:27:52 a big number 01:27:55 oh. 01:28:10 zbigniewm 01:28:11 I thought you meant the next level was about exploiting a bignum implementation, that'd be cool. 01:28:15 oh. 01:28:31 * Bike doesn't know anything about implementing bignums other than the obvious way though. 01:29:18 good job stressing yourself out over stupid things fifi 01:29:26 Fiora: you beat the level? cool 01:29:30 there there fiora 01:29:35 you are infinity times farther in this than i am 01:30:12 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:31:33 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:31:54 The kind of MediaWiki skin I want to use would be something like this: http://sprunge.us/Jgci Maybe I can try to write one. 01:32:08 There are others who have said they wanted to have "unstyled" skin, and so on. 01:32:13 What do you think of this? 01:32:49 (Render as HTML if you want to yourself, to see how it appears on your computer) 01:32:52 Is that a skin because it looks li- oh. 01:33:05 Does mediawiki seriously use allcaps html? 01:34:07 No, it doesn't. 01:34:18 It doesn't have to, either. 01:34:19 Your skin looks like every professor's webpage. 01:34:33 -!- aloril has joined. 01:34:43 Using allcaps HTML is not what I mean at all; that doesn't matter (unless it is XHTML, which mine isn't) 01:35:16 Like every professor's webpage? I didn't know that, but that is irrelevant. 01:36:14 it matters in XHTML? 01:36:21 Well I mean... I don't know what a skin is, but there's no css or nuthin 01:36:40 kmc: xml is case sensitive 01:36:46 XHTML has to use lowercase HTML tags and has to be valid XML (so tags without a corresponding closing tag have to be self-closing in XHTML) 01:37:20 Bike: TIL :( 01:37:51 i dunno, i feel a bit more lukewarm about case insensitivity after thinking about other scripts 01:38:28 Bike: Yes, I know, no CSS or anything like that; It is what I wanted (some other people also wanted an "unstyled" skin, like that, perhaps), which is just ultra-minimal with no CSS, JavaScripts, section-edit links, edit toolbars, etc; only plain. 01:39:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:39:40 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:40:20 Bike: Can you be more specific please? 01:41:44 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:41:59 specific about what. 01:42:45 anyway html doesn't really specify how to be displayed does it 01:43:11 Correct; it doesn't specify. It is up to the client to display it. 01:43:22 I meant specific about lukewarm about case insensitivity after thinking about other scripts. 01:43:49 Oh, just that it doesn't always seem clear how multiple characters "share a case" across languages 01:45:13 Well, case-insensitivity is specific to the language/alphabets/character-sets you are using. 01:48:51 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:49:26 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:50:29 -!- sivoais has joined. 01:54:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:55:49 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:56:46 -!- sivoais has joined. 02:05:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:07:12 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:07:44 -!- Bike has joined. 02:11:39 https://github.com/divarvel/phpz 02:23:15 -!- atriq has joined. 02:26:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:26:47 y'all're lucky you're not in #haskell right now 02:27:30 what's going down 02:27:34 morpheus is fighting neo? 02:27:46 it's high noon and the sheriff ain't got his gun 02:28:33 "Who's the commanding officer here?" "Ain't you?" 02:28:37 oh hey it's ralith 02:28:39 and sw2wolf! 02:28:47 oh no are you reading the logs 02:28:49 don't do that 02:28:56 I'm just being annoying in there now. 02:29:00 "roshan: JS is usually faster than Python" yeah i'm done 02:29:55 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:30:32 Bike: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7xjjevoeE1rn95k2o1_250.gif 02:31:14 only the dead shall know peace from this evil 02:33:17 anyway you guys should convince sw2wolf to use xmonad. thanks in advance 02:35:10 truly #esoteric is the shitposting subforum of #haskell 02:36:27 Bike: Where do you know sw2wolf from? 02:36:32 kmc: why don't you appreciate my puns......... 02:37:07 #lisp, he asks for people to debug everything in broken english 02:37:21 wow that sounds like #haskell 02:37:24 are you sure #lisp isn't #haskel 02:37:25 l 02:37:36 honestly? no 02:37:37 use ze macro 02:40:10 @quote ubuntu.freebsd 02:40:10 NIXDAEMON-COOL says: how to uncompile make into java gcc 3.3 under ubuntu freebsd ?? 02:40:24 has putin ever been asked that 02:41:11 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 02:42:17 -!- atriq has joined. 02:46:31 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:52:27 hey poll 02:52:31 what does "strongly typed" mean 02:53:25 oerjan: /kick Bike plz thx 02:54:01 yikes 02:54:17 you wound me 02:54:41 but seriously i'm 80% sure it's meaningless so I'm wondering if anyone thinks differently 02:54:45 have at thee, knave! 02:54:47 is this "a recurring #haskell thing" perchance 02:54:55 "a little bit yes" 02:55:04 Yes, it's meaningless. 02:55:07 i'm just gonna drop this here http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/an-old-article-i-wrote/ 02:55:09 alt. it means whatever you want it to mean 02:55:13 shachaf: 'like LISP' 02:55:18 It's 80% meaningless 02:55:25 alt. it means whatever makes the person you're talking to look stupid 02:55:38 Bike: it's like "stringly typed" but with steel cable hth 02:56:01 "Strong typing: A type system that I like and feel comfortable with" okay the problem here is that the other half of the conversation is supporting weak typing, as in, saying they like "weak typing" 02:56:20 no some people say strong typing is bad 02:56:31 Only weak people. 02:56:42 weak types for the weak minded 02:56:52 Is strong bad typing? 02:57:08 Wow, this says static typing and dynamic typing are orthogonal. I love you, article. 02:57:08 what if you support both strong and weak typing at once 02:57:10 typing 02:57:11 is that stereotyping 02:57:12 Bike: well weak types are types that know their place and don't get in the way of the programmer. duh. 02:57:32 itt uppity types 02:57:33 don't be a misotypist 02:57:38 THE JOKE IS STEREO 02:57:50 shachaf: the joke is coming from inside the irc 02:58:30 intermediate representation c 02:58:33 a competitor of c-- 03:00:14 Bike: how bout them leibniz equalities 03:00:16 shachaf: wouldn't you love to secure boot GPG directly from UEFI 03:00:22 haha leibniz. 03:00:32 also in this discussion i mentioned unsafeCoerce 03:00:33 "This is like looking at a finely chiseled sculpture made from beautiful and purely white wood. Then you realize in horror that the material is actually human bone." 03:00:34 slight problem is that GPG's UI is beyond unusuable 03:00:44 kmc: Would I? 03:00:47 Cool intermediate representation C using steroids 03:00:54 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary 03:01:04 a good ossuary. 03:01:17 "id = unsafeCoerce" welp 03:01:25 efficiency 03:01:39 we don't have time for your types at web scale 03:02:13 kmc: offer it next to Unity 03:02:29 spj called my code "ferociously-unintuitive" 03:02:32 do i win a medal 03:02:35 "null = not . unsafeCoerce" this is beautiful 03:02:43 That is a ferociously-unintuitive use of 'gcast'! It too me dome while to convince myself that it was right. Though it does indeed work. I'd see (gcast Refl) as the primitive, with 'gcast' itself as a simple derived function. 03:02:50 -- spj 03:03:01 shachaf: you're winner 03:03:01 @quote unsafeCoerce 03:03:01 roconnor says: unsafeCoerce isn't even safe 03:03:16 @quote unsafeCoerce 03:03:17 int-e says: What, unsafeCoerce# is kind-preserving? how boring :/ 03:03:22 @quote = unsafeCoerce 03:03:23 No quotes for this person. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. 03:03:24 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:25 ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce 03:03:26 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:27 ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce 03:03:27 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:28 shachaf says: isTrue :: Bool -> Bool; isTrue = unsafeCoerce 03:03:31 @quote =.unsafeCoerce 03:03:31 ddarius says: isJust :: Maybe a -> Bool; isJust = unsafeCoerce 03:03:33 Hmph. 03:03:46 It might be there; keep trying. 03:03:54 @quote Jafet 03:03:54 Jafet says: Wouldn't that violate the laws of thermodynamics? not if you indent the `|' properly 03:04:00 help 03:04:03 You made spj too dome while? 03:04:12 @quote Bike 03:04:12 Conor says: So, taking Void to be the colour of the empty bikeshed ... 03:04:51 undefined = unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce 03:05:05 wow this has "thanks edwardk" in it 03:06:10 ? 03:06:12 What are you reading? 03:06:23 some old gist you've probably all seen 03:06:31 Ah. 03:06:39 do you know who edwardk is 03:06:55 His true name is spoken only in whispers. 03:07:04 the k stands for "hi monky" which is a misspelling of monqy 03:07:15 @ask monqy hi 03:07:15 Consider it noted. 03:08:13 I have a C program that I'm pretty sure will kernel panic umlbox but I don't want to try it out on HackEgo because Gregor might murder me 03:08:26 imo try it 03:08:33 Gregor: You don't mind, right? 03:09:03 Bike: that definition of undefined looks unreliable 03:09:20 Indeed. 03:09:49 now I'm trying to work out what "fix unsafeCoerce" is 03:09:59 an infinite loop, I guess, if its value becomes relevant 03:10:09 fix unsafeCoerce = fix id 03:10:16 So it's just a plain old infinite loop. 03:11:11 `help 03:11:12 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 03:11:20 `? HackEgo 03:11:22 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 03:11:23 shachaf: yeah 03:11:36 I think `? HackEgo is somewhat sarcastic 03:11:46 unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce 03:11:48 Segmentation fault 03:11:49 now the ptracer becomes the ptraced 03:11:52 That went well. 03:12:03 i vaguely think `? HackEgo was added by Gregor himself. 03:12:10 kmc: imo `? HackEgo tells you the way 03:12:30 `url wisdom/hackego 03:12:31 `pastlog `learn HackEgo 03:12:32 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom/hackego 03:12:50 ais523: it cannot be `learn because of the comma 03:12:54 kmc: I got two gdb to debug each other, it was great 03:12:58 oerjan: right, missed that 03:13:02 No output. 03:14:44 ais523: hm the repository has had its history wiped since that was added 03:14:59 `pastlog wisdom/HackEgo 03:15:07 `pastelogs wisdom/hackego 03:15:07 kmc: Causing a kernel panic in umlbox would be pretty mundane, really. 03:15:16 In terms of its effect. 03:15:21 2011-09-14.txt:23:05:16: mv: cannot stat `wisdom/HackEgo,': No such file or directory 03:15:30 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31897 03:15:54 `pastelogs hax0r 03:15:58 Gregor: it also wouldn't be visible on IRC, would it? 03:16:07 `pastlog You should totally try to hax0r it! 03:16:09 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31776 03:16:10 ais523: It should be. 03:16:10 ais523: oh it actual was `learn XD 03:16:15 ais523: Well, Idonno. 03:16:17 2011-09-14.txt:23:04:34: `learn HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 03:16:17 Actually, no. 03:16:20 there we go 03:16:24 I don't keep the system console. 03:16:34 Gregor: yeah 03:16:45 http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-09-14.txt 03:16:50 Oh, that's true. It starts a new UML every time, doesn't it? 03:16:54 potentially if I did a bunch of them it would be obnoxious to the server 03:17:09 if there's nothing that kills wedged umlbox-linux processes 03:17:16 but, probably there is such a thing as that 03:18:06 All these Crypto Exceptions in mosh are annoying. 03:18:13 And they disappear immediately so I can't even read them. 03:18:23 kmc: Oh, it leaves the uml process running in a borked-up state? 03:20:44 yeah 03:21:02 kmc: i like how that article is like "lol, performance" 03:21:12 kmc: use it to make a HackEgo daemon imo 03:37:52 -!- kmc has set topic: One for yes, two for no | IGMuYwpjLmMuYwogYy5jCg== | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 03:38:46 ? 03:39:29 ! 03:39:37 :O 03:39:42 kmc: is that a multiocular c.c 03:39:55 yes 03:41:37 sorry for getting all nervous earlier, I think I'll continue that wargame thing later 03:41:41 thanks for the help 03:42:31 i hope we didn't overwhelm you with attempts to help 03:42:32 #haskell style 03:42:55 um, maybe a little 03:43:03 sorry :/ 03:43:09 CAN I HALP 03:43:13 it's okay! 03:43:14 I was trying to not help. 03:43:19 Because that would be spoilers. 03:43:22 Maybe that was unhelpful. 03:43:30 hi copumpkin 03:43:34 HALP 03:43:46 how's CT 03:44:04 it's the coend of the line 03:44:40 hey copumpkin did you ever read that story by ted chiang _Liking What You See: A Documentary_ 03:44:48 nope 03:44:58 what/where? 03:45:19 http://www.clarku.edu/welcome/placement/pdf/reading.pdf 03:45:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:46:10 thankee 03:46:15 what made you think of it? 03:46:34 MCALLISTER Keegan can confirm that it's good. Or not good. Depending on what he wants to confirm. 03:46:44 i will confirm 03:47:07 oh, I'm glad 03:47:20 MCALLISTER Keegan is reputable 03:47:28 shachaf has better taste in readings though 03:47:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:48:38 yes User Mode Linux is definitely like a dancing bear 03:48:49 the miracle is not that the bear dances well, but that he dances at all 03:49:16 it's the sort of thing that is obviously possible in principle, and yet obviously not going to work, and yet it does 03:49:26 * kmc thinks most of computers is like that, sometimes 03:50:26 dancing is pretty miraculous even for humans imo 03:53:05 * Fiora agrees with Bike 03:53:32 mine isn't 03:53:45 your dancing? 03:53:59 yeah 03:54:28 even if you fell flat on your face that would be amazing 03:54:38 have you ever thought about the amount of coordination involved in falling on your face 03:54:50 no 03:55:14 It's a lot. Keepin your hands in front of your head and such. 03:56:09 -!- yours_truly has joined. 03:56:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:58:12 -!- yours_truly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:58:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:01:49 -!- Lymia has joined. 04:04:37 `slist 04:04:39 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:12:06 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:32:39 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 04:32:44 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 04:32:44 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 04:32:59 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:33:03 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 04:37:25 I found out there is a ?action=render in MediaWiki which is close to what I have asked for. 04:55:34 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:56:16 -!- elliott has joined. 04:58:41 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:06:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ghoti). 05:31:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:43:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 05:49:07 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:11:54 * pikhq would like to randomly interject by saying that the Japanese MLP translation is well-done. 06:12:19 I don't think that qualifies as an interjection 06:12:42 More a statement really. 06:12:58 is it better in japanese or english? 06:13:16 really only the maltese localization preserves all the subtleties 06:13:22 hi Bike 06:13:27 `welcome Bike 06:13:31 Bike: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:13:57 thx shachaf 06:14:07 Bike: So have you learned about rank-2 types yet? 06:14:08 I'm probably not in a position to answer that... I *enjoyed* it more in Japanese, but when I watched it in English I had much less serotonin floating around. 06:14:33 more like serotonout am i right 06:14:42 maltese is apparently derived from arabic, with mixed-in italian and sicilian vocabulary 06:18:20 pikhq: personal issues? 06:18:50 coppro: Antidepressants are great, man. 06:18:51 nah he was just chillin' in a pool filled with neurotransmitters 06:18:58 pikhq: wheeeeee 06:19:43 ah, so what you're really saying is that MLP is better on drugs 06:20:33 Yeah, drugs that enhance your ability to derive pleasure from things, enhance the pleasure derived from things. 06:20:53 `pbflist 06:20:54 shachaf Sgeo quintopia 06:21:25 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: die). 06:26:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:28:03 -!- heroux has joined. 06:29:41 -!- btiffin has joined. 06:41:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:42:41 -!- heroux has joined. 06:43:47 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:56:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:57:56 -!- heroux has joined. 06:58:27 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:09:58 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 07:10:10 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:12:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:29:18 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:40:45 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:42:26 -!- heroux has joined. 07:49:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:53:09 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:53:57 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:55:01 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:57:49 -!- nooga has joined. 07:58:47 OK????!!!?!?!?!?!!!??? 07:59:06 Did you do that yet? 08:00:00 zzo38: What? 08:00:15 If not, it doesn't matter anyways. 08:07:59 Did zzo38 finally lose it completely? 08:09:27 Is there a difference? No. 08:09:52 I think that's a "yes". 08:10:02 No, there is not a difference. 08:15:35 I am glad that esolang wiki has not upgraded; the new stuff (even other than removing some skins) is completely crazy! 08:17:44 -!- btiffin has left. 08:21:33 -!- monqy has joined. 08:23:38 pblist? 08:23:58 Paddington Bear? 08:24:08 I don't know that. 08:24:10 pb usually means peanut butter ime 08:24:11 look again 08:24:27 I'm surprised you haven't made a Gopher proxy for the wiki already 08:27:27 A generic Gopher plugin for MediaWiki? 08:27:37 I could make some which is read-only; however, the wiki has too much formatting and stuff is needed... 08:27:46 It would work with simpler wikis though. 08:28:32 I'm sure you could persuade elliott "the energetic wiki sysadmin" elliott to install a Gopher plugin. 08:29:56 Would a gopher plugin for esolang wiki be useful in any ways anyways? I don't think so! 08:31:47 `slist 08:31:51 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:31:53 If there is one, you can say what it is; that way, is more persuasion and more explanation too. 08:35:23 I could not find one with a cursory search. 08:35:32 (Which is maybe slightly surprising?) 08:36:32 What do you expect it to do? 08:38:48 I would think it'd offer at least that read-only access to the wiki in question over the gopher protocol. I don't know what sort of menus it would have. 08:39:34 Possibly the menus for each category, is what menus it would have. 08:39:57 If the pages are written clearly enough, rendering them may not even be needed at all. 08:40:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 08:40:33 Gopher can serve HTML if needed, but generally you should use plain text if possible, to use on computers and programs and so on that are not HTML. 08:40:56 I think there are some existing tools for rendering MediaWiki markup into a plaintext approximation. 08:43:04 I also think that such a thing would not be a MediaWiki extension, but a separate program (possibly running on the same computer as the MediaWiki, accessing the same database). But, yes, such tools may be helpful for such purpose, I suppose. The file archive on esolang could also be accessed in the same gopher service. 08:43:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:44:47 Is this correct? 08:45:32 I don't know anything about MediaWiki extensions. But if they are bits and pieces of PHP, possibly it indeed makes more sense for it to be a separate program using the same database. 09:03:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:04:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:04:58 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:05:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 09:05:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:05:37 Random thought: 0xfull == 15. 09:06:40 0x0 == 0 09:07:17 fizzie: possible loss of precision in comparison 09:07:26 or, hmm, probably not 09:07:33 presumably both sides get cast to unsigned long long? 09:08:03 "The usual arithmetic conversions are performed." 09:08:43 ais523: Do you prefer one of Yoneda/CoYoneda? 09:08:58 shachaf: no, partly because I don't know what they are 09:09:04 they get mentioned here every now and then, though 09:09:04 The unsigned type has a rank greater than or equal of the rank of the signed one, so the 15 gets converted to unsigned long long. 09:09:09 0xDEADBULL 09:09:19 newtype Yoneda f a = Yoneda { runYoneda :: forall b. (a -> b) -> f b } 09:09:23 data CoYoneda f a = forall x. CoYoneda (f x) (x -> a) 09:09:25 it hasn't yet been converted to 0xDEADBEEF 09:10:10 0xFEEDAF0E 0xBADDECAF 09:10:55 0z5HACHAF (it's base-18). 09:10:57 if we 0xCULL a 0xBULL we end up with 0xDEADBEEF? I don't know where I'm going with this 09:11:13 Fiora: imo this is 0xadeadfad 09:11:25 It's all very 0xDULL. 09:11:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:11:46 > 0xfull 09:11:48 Not in scope: `ull' 09:11:48 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:11:48 `all' (imported fro... 09:11:53 Hmm. 09:11:59 > let ull = ull in 0xfull 09:12:01 15 09:12:22 @wn ull 09:12:23 *** "ull" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 09:12:23 Ull 09:12:23 n 1: (Norse mythology) one of the Aesir known for his beauty and 09:12:23 skill with bow and skis; son of Sif and stepson of Thor 09:12:23 [syn: {Ull}, {Ullr}] 09:12:25 oklofok: counting dots was great 09:12:56 shachaf: it must be too late at night because I'm laughing at that XD 09:12:57 this morning's test was kinda like the game simon, except with a number of squares that doubled at every good answer, rather than always four squares 09:13:24 That sonuds tricky 09:13:44 and sequences getting longer and longer AND a very limited time to give an answer 09:14:03 near the end he blew a correct answer because I was one second late :( 09:14:28 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 09:14:53 O_o 09:15:17 I just had a Red Screen of Death 09:15:26 And had to reboot my computer 09:15:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:15:42 but um... I've never even heard of a Red Screen of Death before 09:15:52 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 09:15:53 I didn't hear either. 09:16:00 But now you told me. 09:17:12 -!- nooga has joined. 09:17:35 ThatOtherPerson: way to spoil windows! 09:18:22 The color of the blue screen of death is customizable, at least. But maybe this was something else. 09:18:24 I found a chart in Wikipedia of religious % of people who belief evolution is a good explanation of human life on Earth. The most is Buddhist 81%. Unaffiliated is 72%, Jewish is 77%, Catholic is 58%, Jehovah's Witness is 8%. The total population surveyed has 48% in favor of the evolution explanation. 09:20:52 It wasn't like a BSOD either; it was completely red 09:20:57 There was no text 09:21:42 Was it blood? 09:21:57 fizzie: I don't think so. 09:22:05 Perhaps it was digital blood? 09:22:08 Could it have been a cable coming loose? 09:22:14 zzo38: are you belief evolution is a good explanation of human life on Earth 09:22:18 No, it's a laptop 09:22:32 And it stopped when I restarted the computer 09:22:40 I get the feeling that it was one of those things that isn't supposed to happen that isn't supposed to happen. 09:22:54 shachaf: Yes. I think the theory of evolution is a good theory. It may not be perfect, but that is why corrections are made is new thing are figure out! 09:23:01 As opposed to a BSOD, which is one of those things that isn't supposed to happen which is supposed to happen. 09:23:15 `run quote evolution | shuf 09:23:18 The wrong wrong thing and the right wrong thing. 09:23:18 No output. 09:23:22 I also never seen red screen of death. 09:23:32 `run quote telescop | shuf 09:23:34 No output. 09:23:38 `run quote charcoal | shuf 09:23:40 29) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" 09:24:45 `run quote $(words) | shuf 09:24:51 No output. 09:24:55 One day that will return an output. 09:26:59 Some people say evolution is no good; it is just a theory. Some people say, no; it is a fact. But those people seem to not understand. Evolution *is* a theory (not a fact), but a scientific theory is one that has the scientific method and all that; and it happens to be a very good theory. 09:27:29 Do you agree? 09:31:01 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") 09:31:10 afia: 09:31:20 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 09:31:23 Dang. (Both two of my in-query tests produced something.) 09:32:52 `which shuf 09:32:58 Evolution is a theory that agrees with people's observations. Sometimes I guess we need to make small modifications to that theory to make it fit better. It's probably pretty correct tho. 09:32:59 ​/usr/bin/shuf 09:33:18 Oh, that's handy 09:33:20 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") # NOT GIVING UP 09:33:22 at least it's more correct than saying some random creature created the world 09:33:25 hexact: 09:33:30 So close. 09:33:37 `quote hexham 09:33:39 622) also, why isn't monqy from Hexham? his name sounds like he should be \ 691) oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? \ 955) Yeah, thought so. 09:33:46 AnotherTest: Yes, I agree with you 09:34:26 Are you atheist, agnostic, theist, deist, pantheist, panentheist, etc? 09:34:50 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") 09:34:55 rccternrobabhujch: 09:34:58 ... 09:35:06 Is that a word? 09:35:09 I'm not surprised that that one's never been quoted 09:35:16 I got both "game" and "mand" when testing privately. 09:35:34 `run words | (read w; echo "$w: $(quote $w | shuf -n 1)") # natural 20? 09:35:42 ser: 389) drinks should come in long long pipes that drip liquid at varying speeds, and you shouldn't just casually taste to them, you should really try to understand what the artist (the canposer?) was trying to convey when making the drink olsner: well you know i'm a genius. anyway i like how food works tho, because it has bo 09:35:45 Well, if made up at random it will perhaps sometimes make up real words too that is how they do. 09:36:06 zzo38: I think I am atheist. Although I like to call myself realist more 09:36:10 "canposer" is a nice word. 09:36:29 If someone could give me great proof that God exists, I would probably check it out 09:37:06 There is no proof that God does or does not exist; it isn't that kind of thing. However, do you know ignostic? I am also ignostic, so consider that, too. 09:38:36 zzo38: Well, I'm not sure if I understand "ignostic"... but, does it mean that a God if well defined might be possible? 09:38:48 Although there is no clear definition of God? 09:39:47 I do not believe in a personal God, in a anthropomorphic God, in a "sky fairy" God, in a God that directly created the world in a few days or whatever, etc. However, I do believe in God (but not necessarily what you mean by "God"). 09:40:20 AnotherTest: How would I know? 09:40:52 http://sprunge.us/MTIG that's probably not good. 09:41:07 Well, I do not believe in the kind of God that created the universe because that seems like a contradiction to me 09:41:10 I have now got 5 stars on all set-list songs on Guitar Hero 3 09:41:45 although if someone could proof there was such a god / show observations that point in that direction, I would reconsider 09:42:03 But currently, it seems pretty much impossible 09:42:29 zzo38: Then in what kind of god do you believe? 09:42:47 A lazy god? 09:43:08 Taneb: How many stars are there? 09:43:11 and he's called... HASKELL! 09:43:33 I believe that the universe is part of God, and that you could say God created everything but it would be extremely indirect! 09:43:40 5 09:43:44 Taneb: I was under the impression that it had some sort of difficulty levels. 09:44:05 AnotherTest: I do not think assigning qualities such as "lazy" and so on to God is meaningful, unless perhaps you mean lazy evaluation. 09:44:07 zzo38: So you believe in some sort of multi-verse? 09:44:09 (Maybe.) 09:44:23 medium 09:44:24 AnotherTest: Yes. However, that too, must be part of God. 09:44:45 Hm. Seems a little unending-recursive to me 09:45:16 But yeah, who knows 09:45:47 Now to start on the bonus songs 09:47:32 zzo38: what if we're actually in the matrix? 09:48:04 AnotherTest: Then what is the matrix in? 09:48:22 zzo38: in the matrix 09:48:32 and that matrix is also in a matrix 09:49:10 OK. I don't believe we are in the matrix, but of course I don't know; for the sake of the argument I will call it reasonable. 09:49:38 I don't think it makes much difference 09:50:41 It doesn't change what God is, though, in what I mean by that. In what you mean by that, it might, though. 09:51:20 I notice that in a statement "God exists" not only is it not entirely clear what "God" means but also it is not known what "exists" means in this context, either. 09:51:40 zzo38: What about the theory where ais523, who came from the year 523 (I have reason to suspect ais523 is actually pope Hormisdas), and then created the matrix where he put us all in? 09:52:01 ok probably not that likely 09:52:26 AnotherTest: I don't think that is likely or reasonable, but it doesn't change it anyways. 09:53:23 What if there does not exist a supernatural creature? That's what I like to believe. 09:53:40 God is more like an idea to me. 09:53:45 I do not mean by "God", some kind of supernatural creature. 09:54:02 what /do/ you mean by God? 09:54:19 Is it something physical? 09:55:11 No! Physical things are in the universe, the universe is in (maybe) some multiverse, is in ..., is in mathematics, is in ... [infinitely much, possibly?], is in God 09:55:41 Therefore, God is not in spacetime, so it doesn't make sense to say what comes before God, nor what comes after God. 09:55:47 where is God in? 09:55:59 God. 09:56:29 wait 09:56:39 the universe in /in/ mathematics? 09:56:55 Don't you mean: mathematics can be used to describe the universe 09:57:21 I do think I made some mistakes there; I didn't really mean all of that literally like I said. 09:57:35 I just meant that it is all a part of God. 09:57:42 So actually you're saying God is the universe set 09:57:49 *universal 09:58:16 Yes, mathematics can be used to describe the universe. 09:58:22 Well, I'd just call it the universal set then 09:58:27 not "God" or anything 09:58:35 AnotherTest: That is probably the closest concept you have, but it is not precisely what I meant. 09:59:13 zzo38: Is God idea you have conscious? 09:59:50 ugh 09:59:50 But that is describing with words. Not everything you can describe with words! 10:00:07 "Is this God idea of yours conscious?" 10:00:29 Well, why wouldn't you be able to answer that 10:00:30 it's just a property 10:00:41 does it have a free will? 10:01:35 That is difficult. I suppose you could say yes, but in other words it is also no; that is what makes it difficult. I also find it difficult to explain why this is. 10:01:52 (And what I mean by this isn't contradictory.) 10:02:33 I also don't mean that I don't know; even though I don't know. 10:03:09 that does sound like a contradiction to me 10:03:13 "yes and no" 10:03:18 "I know but I also don't" 10:03:35 That is not at all what I meant. I simply am unable to explain what I mean. 10:03:40 That would either mean contradiction or it would mean something in between 10:03:46 oh right 10:04:20 Actually, I can try a little bit, by asking a question: Can you precisely define what you mean by "consciousness" and "free will"? 10:05:30 Well I think conscious could be defined by 1. can it do self reflection 2. can it think of the future 10:05:41 that's probably incomplete though 10:06:14 as for free will, can it make independent decisions (some people think humans can't) 10:06:34 For 1. I suppose yes; for 2. you still need to define "think" though; furthermore, as to the future, that has to do with time, so what future do you mean, specifically? 10:07:36 zzo38: can it plan what it's going to do / should do in the future 10:07:45 eg. I can plan making a city trip tomorrow 10:07:59 I can even imagine how that would be (roughly) 10:08:00 For independent decisions, it means, independent from what? What is there to be independent from? 10:08:32 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 10:08:33 And for the future, that is an error because time is really a function of the universe, not directly of God, surely! 10:08:37 independent from the exterior 10:09:03 zzo38: oh right, I forgot that God was a 1 dimensional being 10:09:07 although that's impossible 10:09:23 We always think of times as being some sort of "absolute" even though we have theories to know it isn't. 10:09:26 because you can never put n dimension into n-1 dimensions? 10:09:42 Or am I wrong about that last 10:10:18 I did not mean God was a 1 dimensional being, or really a "being". However, in some cases you can put n dimension into n-1 dimensions, I think. 10:11:05 zzo38: well s/being/entity 10:11:44 Maybe 0-dimensional would be a better description, but I am unsure. 10:11:45 I think if you want to put an n dimension object into n - 1 dimensions you'd have to make a projection of it 10:12:05 which means it would become n - 1 dimensional 10:12:49 AnotherTest: That is one way. However, I can also make a one-dimensional chess game which is the same as the two-dimensional chess game. 10:13:28 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:13:39 zzo38: Really? I'm not sure about that. The basic concept is the same, but it isn't exactly the same right? 10:14:00 Also, that's definitely not possible for everything 10:14:16 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:14:18 eg. you can't make a non-animated animation 10:14:32 AnotherTest: Yes, I know, it is not possible for everything. But it is possible; you can look it up if you want to! 10:16:40 Spinoza said "Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived." [7] "Individual things are nothing but modifications of the attributes of God, or modes by which the attributes of God are expressed in a fixed and definite manner." [8] 10:16:51 (These numbers are footnotes in Wikipedia) 10:17:46 The world is not God, but it is, in a strong sense, "in" God. (Also according to Wikipedia; same paragraph) 10:18:02 someone else said "God doesn't exist." I guess 10:18:36 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 10:19:01 Yes, probably many people have. Probably many people have said "God exists", too. 10:19:10 Yeah 10:19:29 I think it's just a little unlikely how everything is in some abstract entity known as God 10:19:56 I think infinity doesn't exist in practice 10:20:18 well not in practice 10:20:25 in physical sense 10:20:34 the universe isn't on infinite size 10:20:37 *of 10:21:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:21:48 I understand you, perhaps you are correct; you can have your own beliefs. But I think mathematics is a "higher reality" than the universe. 10:22:20 Well, as long as people don't use god as an excuse for stuff or reason to do something bad, they can think whatever they want 10:22:46 Like "oh let's kill them because gods wants us to" 10:23:29 I do agree with you that using God as an excuse for all this stuff is a bad idea; I am against that kind of stuff as much as you are, probably. 10:28:10 -!- heroux has joined. 10:37:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:48:06 !blsq "122333444455555"F:u[vv^^{1\/?/2\/LG}m[?*++ 10:48:18 hm. 10:49:45 mroman: do you have the pdf for that compression algorithm in English too? 10:49:49 My german isn't that great 10:51:09 -!- carado has joined. 10:55:02 Well. I can write one if you like. 10:58:40 I didn't think anybody would be interested in it so I didn't bother with an english one. 11:01:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:03:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:09:16 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:09:52 -!- jix has joined. 11:11:58 It appears that my code has a heisenbug 11:12:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:14:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:16:05 ThatOtherPerson: You need to use a deplancker. 11:16:18 :D 11:16:40 It's this kind of a spray that removes quantum effects. 11:18:40 Sounds like a very fine spray. 11:25:29 It's made of tiny eyeballs. 11:25:47 GET IT? BECAUSE PEOPLE HONESTLY THINK THAT QUANTUM MECHANICS HAS TO DO WITH OBSERVATION. 11:26:23 -!- monqy has joined. 11:36:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:38:04 -!- heroux has joined. 11:41:20 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:41:25 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 11:41:58 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:42:27 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 12:01:40 -!- augur has joined. 12:04:00 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:08:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:10:21 -!- heroux has joined. 12:11:02 -!- oonbotti has joined. 12:12:57 -!- kyyni has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:17:04 -!- kyyni has joined. 12:18:37 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:21:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:22:22 -!- heroux has joined. 12:23:21 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:24:40 -!- bengt_ has joined. 12:37:49 AnotherTest: Why are you actually interested, if I may ask. 12:42:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:43:32 -!- heroux has joined. 12:53:51 mroman: I'm always interested in new compression algorithms 12:54:35 and I needed to compress text some time ago 12:54:49 and I'm going to need to do that again 12:55:26 with just really small texts. I want to see whether you can use this in combination with something like gzip though 13:00:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:01:07 -!- heroux has joined. 13:07:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:07:15 -!- monqy has joined. 13:12:06 oklofok: I should've trained more with your game 13:13:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:13:21 -!- boily has joined. 13:13:52 -!- heroux has joined. 13:35:21 -!- atriq has joined. 13:37:03 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 13:37:06 -!- carado_ has joined. 13:59:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:01:26 -!- heroux has joined. 14:02:26 Recently I've been ordering Coke with various syrup flavor shots, because the little shop in the Purdue CS department gives me that option so why not. 14:02:34 Discovery: Coke with coconut syrup is not a good idea. 14:06:37 -!- nooodl__ has changed nick to nooodl. 14:08:29 tromp_, oerjan, the translation of the Prime sieve for Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download changes only one half of the IO conventions 14:09:03 No, nevermind 14:12:38 Gregor: how come? coconut usually tastes pretty good. 14:12:54 Not with Coke. 14:13:00 I definitely like coconut. 14:13:03 ... but not with Coke. 14:13:07 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:14:16 atriq: right; because primes usees only the output half. it ignores input:) 14:15:13 I completely misunderstood what the output was trying to be 14:17:01 i'th char is '1' (ascii 49) iff i is prime 14:17:10 What if I brought a bot in that always replied to what fungot said with fungot in the message 14:17:11 AnotherTest: went to bed). i have used such a device is a wacom fnord). 14:17:12 otherwise '0' (ascii 48) 14:17:16 would it start a conversation? 14:18:13 Yes 14:18:19 Until fizzie made it not 14:19:39 ~duck fizzie 14:19:40 --- No relevant information 14:22:15 fizzie: How are you today? 14:22:20 oops 14:22:25 it would start a conversation for a few lines 14:22:26 and then stop 14:22:26 fungot: How are you today? 14:22:27 AnotherTest: s location sucks.)" 14:22:53 elliott, what if AnotherTest's bot had a delayer built in? 14:23:17 it is not time-based 14:25:36 there is a house in new fungot 14:25:37 atriq: or the compiler could fnord the machine code requirement, but we need a fnord to use ( fnord function expression*) and ( min) 14:25:41 they call the fungot fungot 14:25:41 atriq: i wrote an article about that. couldn't have been ' development.' ' a. 14:25:48 it's been the ruin of many fungot 14:25:48 atriq: i dunno why this is happening 14:25:54 and fungot knew was one 14:25:55 atriq: ' lo fnord :p.) and humorous, though. 14:25:59 fungot what 14:26:08 Okay, good test 14:26:13 fungot yay 14:26:18 -!- atriq has changed nick to Ngevd. 14:26:20 fungot 14:26:20 Ngevd: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 14:26:20 Ngevd: or the files? sockets? last time i had problem with it 14:26:26 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to atriq. 14:26:28 fungot 14:26:28 atriq: yet more evidence that catfive is at least memorable. when i use syntax-case i can no longer face the torment 14:26:34 elliott, what if it changed nicks 14:26:50 that would probably work 14:27:08 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:27:48 Does fungot base some part of its messages on what's being said? Or just totally random generated text? 14:27:48 AnotherTest: i think. i mean when i say you don't want infix function calls. 14:29:20 latter 14:29:45 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 14:31:07 What's fungot opinion on the Underhanded C contest? 14:31:07 ThatOtherPerson: says mikrobitti but doesn't mention how one'd get the number of 14:32:02 fungot: Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put! 14:32:02 ThatOtherPerson: but unload: pop *top fnord if possible from the relevant stacks of stacks of function pointers 14:32:23 why is fungot so obsessed with fnords all of a sudden 14:32:23 ThatOtherPerson: the language list 14:32:40 Which language list? 14:32:55 the `list. 14:40:32 ThatOtherPerson, it uses fnord as "I didn't get enough examples of this word so I didn't bother remembering it" 14:43:18 Don't type `list, especially in-channel 14:43:24 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:43:25 It'll annoy a bunch of people 14:43:49 `list 14:43:51 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 14:44:13 You mayswell type it know, ThatOtherPerson 14:46:47 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:47:23 Hmm 14:47:33 I wonder how hard it'd be to play dwarf fortress via ssh 14:48:08 atriq: probably not hard, if I compare that to my experience with crawl. 14:50:48 Hey, what's the font Dwarf Fortress uses in its graphical interface? 14:51:57 a reproduction of CP437 from the elder days. 14:52:03 -!- carado_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:52:03 probably fixedsys or something. 14:53:13 but then, you have stuff like this, confusing the matter: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Tileset_repository 14:58:04 wow i missed some deep philosophy 14:59:13 ~metar CYUL 14:59:14 CYUL 031400Z 26021G31KT 30SM OVC200 M03/M13 A2997 RMK CI8 CF TR SLP150 14:59:16 kmc: yes 15:01:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:04:32 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:10:28 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:11:53 -!- conehead has joined. 15:23:30 AnotherTest: I see. 15:25:45 ~metar KBOS 15:25:45 KBOS 031454Z 27019G27KT 10SM FEW050 SCT250 03/M13 A2997 RMK AO2 PK WND 27031/1405 SLP149 T00331133 57010 15:27:32 how did deadfish replace Emmental on the front page 15:27:35 how dit that happen 15:28:39 kmc: windy for you too? 15:31:33 generic random haskell question: what is Traversable? 15:31:48 It's a fun thing of fun 15:31:55 :t T.traverse 15:31:56 Couldn't find qualified module. 15:31:58 :t traverse 15:32:00 (Applicative f, Traversable t) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) 15:32:05 That's the core of it 15:32:23 It's something you can map an applicative action over and collect the effects, basically 15:33:36 ~eval traverse Just [1, 2, 3] 15:33:39 Error (1): 15:33:40 ~eval traverse Just [1, 2, 3] 15:33:42 Just [1,2,3] 15:33:53 Koen_: an administrator waved a magic wand 15:34:43 ~eval traverse (\x -> if even x then Just x else Nothing) [1..4] 15:34:44 Nothing 15:35:31 ~eval traverse (\x -> (Sum x, x `div` 2)) [1..4] 15:35:32 (Sum {getSum = 10},[0,1,1,2]) 15:35:45 oh. 15:35:56 ooooooh. 15:36:07 I think I'm beginning to be illuminated. 15:36:32 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:36:37 ~eval traverse (show x, x) [1..4] 15:36:37 Error (1): Not in scope: `x'Not in scope: `x' 15:36:45 ~eval traverse (\x -> show x, x) [1..4] 15:36:45 Error (1): Not in scope: `x' 15:36:51 ~eval traverse (\x -> (show x, x)) [1..4] 15:36:51 ("1234",[1,2,3,4]) 15:37:31 * boily puts on his glasses of +5 protection from radiance 15:38:29 Koen_: why should you have trained more? are you being tested for astronautship or something? 15:38:33 ~eval traverse (\x -> [x, x + 1, x + 2]) (Just 4) 15:38:34 [Just 4,Just 5,Just 6] 15:38:40 ~eval traverse (\x -> [x, x + 1, x + 2]) [1..3] 15:38:40 [[1,2,3],[1,2,4],[1,2,5],[1,3,3],[1,3,4],[1,3,5],[1,4,3],[1,4,4],[1,4,5],[2,2,3],[2,2,4],[2,2,5],[2,3,3],[2,3,4],[2,3,5],[2,4,3],[2,4,4],[2,4,5],[3,2,3],[3,2,4],[3,2,5],[3,3,3],[3,3,4],[3,3,5],[3,4,3],[3,4,4],[3,4,5]] 15:38:44 actually i think you mentioned what these tests are about but i have no idea 15:39:16 oklofok, a computer science school that some rich guy is paying for 15:39:18 iirc 15:39:44 oh right 15:41:04 i'd love a school that teaches these sorts of important skills instead of just testing your ability in them and then teaching you something else 15:41:06 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:41:12 counting dots 101 15:41:33 when i get rich there's gonna be such a school 15:41:43 what tests 15:42:11 Koen_'s ability to remember sequences and make pictures out of triangles are being tested 15:44:47 ...Martin Freeman will be in all three of the Blood and Ice Cream trilogy 15:54:35 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:55:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 15:55:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:56:40 AnotherTest: https://github.com/FMNSSun/noe/raw/master/noe_en.pdf 15:56:45 ^- is that good enough? 15:56:52 wow thanks 15:57:09 yeah 15:58:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:58:33 there are some typos probably :) 15:58:55 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:59:16 and I probably should mention the parameters I used :) 16:04:03 -!- ineiros has joined. 16:09:11 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:09:24 ok. I updated it. 16:09:30 it now includes also some calculations ;) 16:28:51 AnotherTest: Botloops are kind of a channel tradition, but usually (well, I don't have hard stats on this) they're been done using vaguely quine-like tools. There's one really short one in Underload. 16:28:59 (Though regular chat-loops have happened too.) 16:29:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:30:02 It's not that scary! 16:30:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:30:10 Come on. 16:30:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:30:25 sorry my client completely crashed 16:30:34 Botloops of the first kind are still possible with fungot; it only has the "only reply up to four times consecutively to the same bot" rule for chat, not ^commands. But it also has an ignore list of known bots. 16:30:34 fizzie: writing out memoized versions of the program than it's formatting 16:30:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:30:46 (One day I'll adopt the Gregor solution™.) 16:31:17 (That's prefixing every line of output with a zero-width space so it doesn't trigger commands that are triggered with a prefix.) 16:31:20 gregor solution is worst solution 16:31:35 fizzie: Actually I only prefix lines that don't match /^[A-Za-z0-9]/ 16:31:48 my new bot prefix: 0 16:32:06 Gregor: That's even fancier. 16:32:25 ^ignore 16:32:25 ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|jconn)! 16:32:39 elliott: Don't you mean that your new bot prefix is zero-width space? 16:32:55 haha 16:32:56 good idea 16:32:58 -!- Bike has joined. 16:43:55 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:44:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:44:18 AnotherTest: The algorithm can be optimised to perform better on longer texts by using prefixes etc. to encode to length of the positions etc. etc. 16:44:29 it however doesn't stand a chance against other compression algorithms 16:44:40 with longer texts. 16:44:46 I therefore did not describe that. 16:46:27 -!- NuclearMeltdown has left. 16:50:11 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:02:54 elliott: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15792934/how-is-merge-and-split-not-in-scope-haskell 17:04:39 haskell is so confusing 17:05:55 as a professional expert confusion consultant, I concur. 17:06:59 huh, iain m banks is dying. 17:07:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:08:01 methinks a language that avoids confusion altogether can't beall that great 17:08:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:11:40 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:17:04 maybe the best language is one that causes the most possible amount of confusion 17:17:48 which means that java is pretty poor, but C++ is excellent? 17:18:40 hmm, yes 17:19:49 there is something to be said for deceptive simplicity though - and I think C++ often seems close to as confusing as it is 17:20:00 it's only goof if the confusion can be overcome and lead to enlightenment 17:20:02 good 17:20:38 therefore, the best language out there is lisp. 17:23:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:33:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:33:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:40:39 You meant to say Smalltalk. 17:43:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 17:44:25 no, i am spartacus 17:49:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:49:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:51:46 I am alive 17:52:55 I am not 17:52:56 I'm making a note here: Huge success. 17:55:01 Is the success that I am alive or that not is elliott? 17:56:51 It's hard to understate my satisfaction 17:58:29 atriq: I was considering saying that it was hard to overstate my dissatisfaction. 17:58:34 But I was too dissatisfied. 17:58:39 Thank you for doing what you must. 17:58:40 Because. 17:58:40 You can. 17:59:22 I exist, therefore I Can-adian. 18:00:06 I or elliott exist. 18:00:11 elliott does not exist. 18:00:15 Therefore I exist 18:00:21 I both exist and don't exist 18:00:26 at the same time 18:00:35 Then I'm the pope 18:01:06 did that just happen 18:02:47 ni 18:02:50 *no 18:02:55 no, it did not 18:03:04 good 18:03:04 We are not the knights who say ni 18:03:10 They aren't us 18:03:31 -!- monqy has joined. 18:03:57 No, we are the coders who say "it" 18:04:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:04:19 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 18:04:34 somebody make an h2g2 joke so i can flop around in shame 18:06:29 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:06:50 wait where is the h2g2 joke 18:07:02 I don't know any 18:07:10 I MUST FLOP 18:07:39 flop like uhhh zem 18:07:42 remember zem 18:07:46 from squornthingy zeta! 18:07:50 the mattress planet. AM I HELPING 18:07:57 * Bike flops all over elliott 18:08:04 were you around yesterday when Koen_ told us all about the 42 institute of computer science and horrible nerd culture 18:08:18 yesh 18:08:32 you're right i'll have to flop all over him too 18:08:36 is that a yes or a yeesh 18:08:51 monqy: oh boy what did i miss 18:09:01 btw i like h2g2 :---/ 18:09:03 i guess i forgot to tell you to check the logs 18:09:16 "In Finland we have a saying: ‘Pitäkää tunkkinne’. It means: I fucking tried to pay for this, but your service only promotes piracy through rather expensive pricing, shitty image quality — and, well, unfortunately also your programs are unnecessarily late." 18:09:20 i liked h2g2 when i read it!! i read it a lot of times i own the complete edition with all the books it's big and....blue? 18:09:21 i like monty python and portal too 18:09:29 ... finnish is quite terse 18:09:33 monqy: ye i own a combined one too (possibly the same one? i dont think its blue) 18:09:39 it's real good 18:09:40 well there are 2 combined ones 18:09:43 one is green and one is blue 18:09:44 The one with the grinning circle on the cover? 18:09:51 That's the one I've got. 18:09:51 both have a grinning circle 18:09:52 ok you know more about combined h2g2 editions than me monqy 18:09:54 are you a COLLECTOR 18:09:59 well like 18:10:04 the grinning circle is green? 18:10:12 the grinning circle can also be blue 18:10:23 ok well i have the green circle one 18:10:28 i have to find my copy then i can tell you all about how it's exactly the same except it's blue and has another book in it 18:10:45 mine has the uh, young zaphod gets stoned, or whatever it's called 18:10:47 i actually don't mind the tired h2g2 references unless they're really really tired like 42 b/c it's just nice to see it 18:12:39 unfortunately the only reference anyone can fucking bother with is 42 soooooooooooooooo 18:12:49 42 18:13:06 monqy: um there's also almost but not entirely unlike X 18:13:09 elliott: the koen Thing in question is http://www.42.fr just so you know 18:13:10 and uh 18:13:23 hanging in the air the way bricks don't 18:13:27 something about whales? 18:13:30 oh or the drink 18:13:37 getting smashed in with a golden brick or whatever? 18:13:52 there's also MarvinPA [laugh track] 18:14:02 (rest of the channel that isnt monqy: ignore above line) 18:14:44 Bike: what the heckers is this 18:15:18 some french internet guy doing a learny thing 18:15:18 42 18:15:20 uuuuugh i forget where i put it ~all those years ago~ 18:15:21 42 42 18:15:35 filled with Nerd Jokes apparently 18:16:14 yeah it's not that nerds like bad things, it's that we like good things and run them into the fucking ground 18:16:26 although I may be just as guilty of this as anyone else 18:16:33 ~duck 42 18:16:34 --- No relevant information 18:16:40 ~duck forty-two 18:16:40 Forty-two is a 1945 clone which can be scripted in Guile (GPLv3, Games). 18:16:57 ~duck answer to universe 18:16:58 --- No relevant information 18:16:58 elliott: do you remember when the word "grok" was actually a useful neologism and not just a pretentious synonym for "know" 18:17:11 I don't grok you, kmc 18:17:11 what did it mean 18:17:12 well probably not because it was like 10 years before either of us was born but, 18:17:24 * Bike stopped reading that book once! 18:17:30 (kmc is about the same age as elliott?) 18:17:31 'Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man.' 18:17:33 I don't mind grok that much idk 18:17:35 I don't see it much 18:17:36 no i'm older 18:17:39 elliott: i see it a lot 18:17:46 ~duck grok 18:17:47 it's a job posting cliché, almost as much as ninja rockstar 18:17:47 grok definition: to understand profoundly and intuitively. 18:17:56 yeah that just sounds like "know really well" to me idk 18:18:08 ...I've been using "grok" to mean "come to understand" 18:18:16 kmc is like twice as old as me or something 18:18:28 job postings are largely about companies signalling that they're cool and integrated with 'nerd culture' 18:18:31 ...34? 18:18:39 * kmc is 25 18:18:42 maybe if i like actually read Strange 18:18:44 Stranger* 18:18:49 i didn't read it either 18:18:49 have any of you done that? kmc? 18:18:52 well then 18:18:59 you fraud. 18:19:02 kmc is almost as old as I've been mistaken to be 18:19:03 welp 18:19:15 that kind of job posting is usually an instant disqualification 18:19:18 25 is roughly 34 really 18:19:23 Saying that, I've been to a pub and ordered alcohol wearing a fake beard 18:19:33 how old are you actually atriq 18:19:37 18 18:19:43 Old enough to legally drink 18:19:44 and I think using "grok" in one of those is completely different from using grok in almost any other circumstance 18:19:47 18 and 25... noted. 18:20:02 gah i'm old 18:20:08 boily, I do announce my birthday when it comes round 18:20:11 42 42 42 18:20:15 and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun 18:20:18 ♫ 18:20:27 ♫ ♫ ♫ 18:20:35 kmc: omg ur so old 18:20:35 (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:20:40 42 42 42 42 42 18:20:46 COMBINING_WALL_ABOVE 18:20:47 `addquote (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:20:47 one day i may even be 42 years old 18:20:52 1007) (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:20:58 maybe i should include the rest 18:21:00 `delquote 1007 18:21:05 ​*poof* (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:21:08 the rest is just lyrics 18:21:10 nah then it's just embarssing 18:21:11 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 18:21:16 `addquote and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:21:22 kmc: that is ok 18:21:23 1007) and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 18:21:25 now i'm embarassed 18:21:27 * Bike puts on Bike 18:21:27 look what you've done el 18:21:28 liot 18:21:29 t 18:21:30 that is ok 18:21:34 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 18:21:35 i've got a bike, you can ride it if you like 18:21:43 `logs * cigar 18:21:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: logs: not found 18:21:49 `pastlogs * cigar 18:21:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 18:21:51 hmm, I don't think I've realized that song has lyrics before 18:21:54 `pastlog * cigar 18:21:56 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 18:22:02 have a cigar? 18:22:06 person could you just like 18:22:08 stop 18:22:15 who is person 18:22:17 oh 18:22:20 BUT WHO WAS PERSON 18:22:20 fibonacci sequence 18:22:21 i was mentally ignoring him 18:22:25 kmc, I don't any more 18:22:25 for saying 42 a lot 18:22:25 No output. 18:22:28 without even realising it 18:22:30 yeah me too but it's getting long now 18:22:40 > let fib n = 42 in map fib [1..] 18:22:41 like i don't think i even saw the first one? 18:23:17 Trivia: I have a cousin who is just like me, except Australian and somehow less awesome. 18:23:54 Is awesomeness inversely related to Australianness? 18:24:06 we're at 1007 quotes? 18:24:58 > let fib n = case n of {0 -> [42]; 1 -> [42]; n -> fib (n - 1) ++ fib (n - 2)} in fib 42 18:25:32 `quote 1000 18:25:34 1000) `quote 1000 18:25:34 ThatOtherPerson, it's positively correlated 18:25:37 ThatOtherPerson: presumably non-inversely 18:25:42 or it wouldn't be "somehow" 18:25:50 `quote 999 18:25:52 ah, of course 18:25:52 999) ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] Domain Name System [...] ♫ domain name system ♫ 18:26:18 domain name system surrounded by two pink floyd guitar solos 18:26:24 `quote 1 18:26:27 `quote ♫ 18:26:27 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. 18:26:28 999) ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] Domain Name System [...] ♫ domain name system ♫ \ 1007) and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guita 18:26:30 kmc: you've become a little bit too melodious than socially acceptable lately. anything happened in your life? 18:26:36 :O 18:26:38 not really 18:27:00 ThatOtherPerson, you came after itidus20. 18:27:08 He was an awesome Australian 18:27:11 `quote itidus 18:27:13 405) to assume that someone can be described by a rule without exception... is to assume they are omnipotent for instance stones are omnipotent, as they don't do anything, without exception \ 426) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly \ 427) itidus20: i s 18:27:25 Lord_DeathMatch is pretty awesome and also Australian 18:27:31 hmm, what happened to itidus? 18:27:42 olsner, had a row with Phantom_Hoover or something 18:27:59 ok 18:28:40 `quote 427 18:28:41 427) itidus20: i saw a dancing cgi skeleton named malaria. i danced and played with him. 18:30:10 `quote 42 18:30:13 42) If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. 18:30:33 `quote row 18:30:35 125) INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 157) [spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. \ 171) "* There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is 18:36:23 `quote internet 18:36:25 93) alise: why internet is like wtf \ 113) reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it \ 125) INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 217) ais523: Maybe it 18:37:04 `which quote 18:37:05 ​/hackenv/bin/quote 18:37:13 `cat /hackenv/bin/quote 18:37:15 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 18:37:30 `allquotes 18:37:31 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 2) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 4) that's where I got it roc 18:38:11 `which allquotes 18:38:12 ​/hackenv/bin/allquotes 18:38:21 `cat /hackenv/bin/allquotes 18:38:23 ​#!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes 18:39:12 `pastequotes 18:39:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18531 18:41:16 `cat /hackenv/bin/pastequotes 18:41:20 ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1"; else allquotes; fi | paste 18:41:39 `echo 42 | paste 18:41:40 42 | paste 18:42:13 `run echo 42 | paste 18:42:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31267 18:42:35 What a waste of paste. 18:44:22 `quote 959 18:44:29 959) I'm a story about the prohibition of chocolate 18:44:40 Trivia: that made perfect sense in my head 18:44:46 And I still know what I was on about 18:46:44 `quote boily 18:46:46 940) boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world \ 941) ~eval 1+2 Error (127): this is a great bot boily i love it \ 950) not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. \ 953) ais523: I'm not sure my 18:47:52 ok. nothing perverted and or of a purple tinge happened in my numerous absences. my paranoïa is satisfied. 18:50:29 `quote 897 18:50:31 897) That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people 18:50:46 That's simultaneously very me and very not me 18:52:23 atriq: why did you change your name to atriq again 18:52:45 Look who else is in the channel 18:54:14 Hint: it's Taneb 18:56:35 He's an impostor! 18:56:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:57:19 -!- augur has joined. 18:57:42 My computer's on upstairs and set to auto-reconnect 18:58:16 I could ssh in and kill the process but there's not much point because I'm heading upstairs in a few minutes 19:00:17 He keeps on saying that 19:00:21 But he never does 19:01:49 atriq: /msg nickserv ghost taneb 19:01:49 -!- SDr has changed nick to sdr|Flu. 19:02:03 elliott, wanna see what happens? 19:02:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:02:14 i knew what would happen 19:02:16 Now wait a couple of secs 19:02:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:02:50 well if you ghost it 19:02:51 and then type /nick taneb 19:02:56 see what happens then! 19:03:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:03:12 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 19:03:12 taneb___ 19:03:35 -!- atriq has joined. 19:03:43 hi atriq 19:03:48 "welcome back" 19:03:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:03:58 Hi oerjan 19:04:06 My and atriq are having a fight to the death 19:04:12 hi Taneb 19:04:44 you should pick up tips from hulk and dr. banner, then 19:05:05 Hi Taneb! 19:05:06 If it's gonna progress it will involve running up and down stairs 19:05:15 Haven't seen you for a couple of weeks. 19:05:28 I've been about 19:05:29 Taneb: no gamma rays? boring. 19:05:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:10:49 Hah! 19:10:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:11:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:11:38 `? atriq 19:11:47 atriq or two 19:12:13 atriq or two and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends 19:12:22 :O 19:12:25 o rly 19:12:35 Taneb: ^ o rly? 19:13:07 `run grep -i leijon wisdom/* 19:13:07 ~duck nepeta leijon 19:13:08 `! atriq 19:13:09 --- No relevant information 19:13:09 wisdom/shachaf:shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 19:13:11 ATRIQ OR TWO 19:13:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:19 shachaf: are you saying you are atriq 19:13:45 the truth is out 19:13:48 I am shachaf 19:13:52 I wouldn't be surprised. no way there are enough people in this world for having a distinct shachaf to an atriq. 19:13:54 *GASP* 19:13:56 oerjan: no, i'm saying that and cosplaying Nepeta Leijoin on weekends is a popular things to do 19:14:06 OKAY 19:14:13 atriq's puns are not fun enough to be me 19:14:14 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 19:14:48 Iain Banks has terminal cancer :( 19:14:49 -!- ThatOtherPerson has changed nick to atriq. 19:14:53 `? taneb 19:14:55 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules) 19:15:06 `? ngevd 19:15:07 ​n!?[5ru/[wB—ؙ<ܩT[m{q"s_XKШ?YVfF$}q[A-3.."TwK&⒯wE)װan*Wz7LtJ*q\8E6vT[!_.ϲͅ;LG{2UIoP—~7b殽*@@#A. f}BgA{qjz0bz"^BtqEAkuL{t/@=FH+=WJf.ޘD^@]߷Q Bike: that's actually a special case 19:15:20 `? ngevd | paste 19:15:21 ngevd | paste? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:15:27 `run ? ngevd | paste 19:15:30 whoa, man 19:15:45 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12841 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 12: 299 File size limit exceededcat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" 19:15:48 `run paste wisdom/ngevd 19:15:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom/ngevd 19:16:02 Taneb: GOOD JOB 19:16:03 ????? 19:16:20 oerjan: Thank you. 19:16:25 `run -l wisdom/*gev* 19:16:27 bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \ 19:16:30 `run ls -l wisdom/*gev* 19:16:37 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 25 Mar 31 19:00 wisdom/ngevd 19:16:38 -!- atriq has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:16:49 ONLY I MAY BE ATRIQ 19:16:51 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq. 19:17:05 i hope you're actually running up and down the stairs 19:17:08 `run rm -f --force wisdom/ngevd --force 19:17:09 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 19:17:12 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 19:17:16 No output. 19:17:29 `file wisdom/Ngevd 19:17:33 wisdom/Ngevd: ERROR: cannot open `wisdom/Ngevd' (No such file or directory) 19:17:37 `? Ngevd 19:17:39 Ngevd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:17:41 By Nathan I was killed and by Nathan I live 19:17:48 shachaf, why 19:17:55 atriq: did you see what it said 19:17:57 `! atriq 19:18:01 ATRIQ OR TWO! 19:18:03 Much better. 19:18:11 (It now adds a ! at the end if one does not exist.) 19:18:36 `? structural subtyping 19:18:38 Not to be confused with substructural typing. 19:18:39 `? substructural typing 19:18:41 Not to be confused with structural subtyping. 19:18:43 :-( 19:18:59 "ngevd more like ein gedi" 19:19:01 good ol' maths 19:19:11 atriq: what does that even mean 19:19:41 it's friesian for "a butt" 19:20:56 -!- AnotherTest1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:21:13 fizzie: fancy 19:21:15 Yay. 19:21:28 `ls -l wisdom/Ngevd 19:21:30 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 19:21:46 `run ls -l wisdom/Ngevd 19:21:48 (why would that help...) 19:21:49 ls: cannot access wisdom/Ngevd: No such file or directory 19:22:02 `? ngevd 19:22:03 ngevd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:22:03 Phantom_Hoover: wisdom/ is uniformly lowercase 19:22:08 huh 19:22:18 `run ls -l wisdom/ngevd 19:22:19 ls: cannot access wisdom/ngevd: No such file or directory 19:22:20 however i believe that file is actually gone. 19:22:22 `run ls wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]' 19:22:23 `help 19:22:24 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 19:22:24 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:22:33 oerjan, nooooooooooooo 19:22:34 `run ls ./wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]' 19:22:37 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 19:22:45 wow HackEgo 19:22:49 `run /bin/ls wisdom | egrep '[A-Z]' 19:22:54 ais523 \ america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bike \ bird \ boily \ bonvenon \ bookwatching \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ category \ category-helpdesk \ certainly \ certainty \ claustrophobia \ coffee \ color \ colour \ comedogenic \ comonad \ conspirabiology \ 19:22:57 it's security, shachaf 19:22:58 oops 19:23:01 `ln -s wisdom/ngevd /dev/urandom 19:23:03 shachaf: SHEESH 19:23:04 `? ngevd 19:23:07 ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 19:23:08 ngevd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:23:09 `rm wisdom/ngevd 19:23:13 rm: cannot remove `wisdom/ngevd': No such file or directory 19:23:16 oerjan: why didn't my grep work 19:23:19 oh 19:23:19 i like this discussion 19:23:27 Phantom_Hoover: um you should _really_ take a look at bin/? before doing that 19:23:34 Phantom_Hoover doesn't care 19:23:40 actually that will be pointless regardless of the argument order. 19:23:42 \ 19:23:50 phantom hoover should be a honey badger. 19:24:20 Phantom_Hoover is just trying to be annoying as far as i can tell :( 19:24:48 Phantom_Hoover: it was changed so that things don't blow up completely when someone tries to make a list of all the wisdom entries. 19:25:51 wtf is going on 19:26:23 No, I do not believe that is going on. 19:26:54 Wow, I am very very glad I didn't run out of cash last weekend 19:27:15 Otherwise I'd be stuck in Sunderland with only an out of date debit card 19:27:20 ha ha ThatOtherPerson 19:27:29 new heights of comedy have been reached thanks to you 19:27:51 i like monoidal comedy 19:27:56 can we have more of that in here 19:28:30 oerjan, who ruined wisdom/ngevd, and why 19:29:01 Phantom_Hoover: shachaf just deleted it. otherwise, i just said above. 19:29:26 oerjan: yes well did you see what it said 19:29:33 `run echo Boo! >wisdom/ngevd 19:29:37 No output. 19:29:41 `? ngevd 19:29:43 w:也8U]Y۝[.S5nO&dGv>8,.s[=BORn%*a"4Hcjmtg! qpoC/J:!~(gJCcU \ 949}yr'C.2O9頓z;H\_։X!3\@H^i*Xv]g 19:29:48 whoa dude 19:29:51 `paste bin/? 19:29:51 也 19:29:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%3F 19:30:06 `rm wisdom/ngevd 19:30:09 No output. 19:30:12 ohhhh 19:30:16 you specialcased it 19:30:18 INELEGANT 19:30:30 imo "dot dot dot" 19:30:57 "as they say" 19:32:04 :? 19:32:33 `learn ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 19:32:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:32:37 I knew that. 19:33:30 `? Phantom_Hoover 19:33:31 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist. 19:33:46 Phantom_Hoover: you worship hats? 19:34:21 no 19:34:21 it's hat-heist, not h+atheist 19:34:43 You steal hats? 19:36:55 He does not respond, thus proving his guilt. 19:38:43 But... but... no True Scotsman steals hats! 19:38:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:39:37 -!- Bike has joined. 19:39:47 IT IS A LIE 19:45:41 the cake? 19:46:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:46:51 ThatOtherPerson, well, I never successfully stole it. 19:47:55 -!- Bike has joined. 19:51:56 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:54:17 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:54:43 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 19:58:25 I love my job. I make phone rings. 19:59:38 wats a phone ring 20:01:37 arenas for ritualized combat between phones. what's a ceremony? 20:03:52 No, what is a word. 20:04:36 argh... if I can't subtly try to start a covert round of govende... 20:04:42 oh well. 20:04:44 ~duck word 20:04:45 word definition: something that is said. 20:05:35 Any of you guys play board game online? 20:05:39 -!- carado has joined. 20:05:53 i watch board games online 20:06:01 I play scrabble online sometimes. 20:06:03 http://www.boardgame-online.com/g/game.php?g=cYbq&k=qJX 20:06:37 the heck 20:06:48 It's an online boardgame 20:06:52 Called boardgame online 20:07:20 isotropic is dead. now there's only that blasphemous infamy left to play dominion online. 20:09:14 "I'm a guy! I have a penis." ........ 20:09:40 hi nooodl 20:09:43 hi 20:09:51 I'm a guy! I have two penises 20:10:02 "I'm not sure what I am." omg this is so blatantly transphobic jesus 20:10:44 seriously is this some kind of dating service game 20:11:25 im confused 20:11:27 not sure should be two other choices " I have both" " I have neither" 20:11:29 is this about that board game online 20:11:47 yes 20:11:48 atriq: what is that and what does it have to do with Homestuck 20:11:50 oh god what is this even saying help i am not good with computers 20:12:12 "I'm a girl! I have boobies." um 20:12:34 i have seven pet boobies. they fly around for me 20:12:45 ThatOtherPerson, it's an online board game 20:12:55 A lot of people playing this instance read Homestuck 20:13:03 is it about sex 20:13:05 because 20:13:05 uh 20:13:09 A little 20:13:12 :> 20:13:14 :/ 20:13:15 why 20:13:15 * Fiora o_O what is going on 20:13:27 im learning about homestuck 20:13:28 * ThatOtherPerson has no clue 20:13:32 monqy: flee 20:13:35 It's a really weird online board game 20:13:36 what does this have to do with homestuck? @_@ 20:13:42 flee from it like the plague 20:13:57 fiora has like nine penises, all in hermeneutic jars for later study 20:14:13 Fiora: I clicked all the buttons and was taken to some chat thingy where people were talking about Homestuck characters 20:14:15 but science needs them now 20:14:16 what ;-; 20:14:20 hm that should be "hermetic" shouldn't it 20:14:22 I am at least as confused as you 20:14:24 if not more 20:14:33 -!- Fiora has left ("I don't understand"). 20:14:38 rip 20:14:39 :/ 20:14:45 HOW COULD YOU PEOPLE 20:15:56 damn it 20:16:11 * boily unleashes the eldritch (and cyclopean and grotesque) squiddly powers of metasepia towards bike 20:16:12 What is this it you are referring to? 20:16:45 “GO FORTH, MY MINION, AND OBLITERATE THAT HEATHEN FROM THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH, ESPECIALLY HEXHAM!” 20:19:49 Gregor: how come? coconut usually tastes pretty good. <-- this is a public announcement to remind you that Gregor doesn't have a sense of taste hth 20:20:23 oerjan: Oh come on, we're talking about SODA here. 20:22:43 hm that should be "hermetic" shouldn't it <-- darn i was so wondering what a hermeneutic jar is 20:22:54 ~duck hermeneutics 20:22:55 Hermeneutics, broadly, is the art of text interpretation. 20:23:30 oerjan: probably like the jar the nag hammadi library was found in. 20:23:32 .,. 20:24:32 i hope Fiora will come back sometime 20:24:40 @tell Fiora Have you found understanding in your absence? 20:24:47 ... 20:24:53 I don't know how to use that bot 20:25:12 ThatOtherPerson: it helps if it's actually present 20:25:17 ah 20:25:19 I see 20:25:25 shachaf: WHAT DID YOU DO TO LAMBDABOT 20:25:40 someone found a way to kill lambdabot? 20:25:55 "again?" 20:26:10 @quambdabot 20:26:12 help 20:26:14 boily: i suspect it's not particularly hard if someone actually tried 20:26:30 well, my is always there to be readily killed. 20:26:42 -!- ThatOtherPerson has changed nick to my. 20:26:47 kill me 20:26:47 (granted, I have full access to a good C-c aimed at it...) 20:26:58 ~eval unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce + 2 20:27:00 Error (1): 20:27:12 * boily grabs metasepia from Bike and redirects its fury towards my 20:27:20 what 20:27:23 boily: that's a _little_ concise for an error message 20:27:35 I know. sometimes it works, most often not. 20:27:59 be subjugated in front of its zen-like approach to error handling! 20:28:05 boily: you might join lines, or something 20:28:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:28:48 ~eval unsafeCoerce False ++ "hm..." 20:28:49 Error (1): Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce' 20:28:57 that _might_ explain it. 20:29:34 lucky you! you got a full error message! 20:29:34 sigh 20:29:40 ~eval Unsafe.Coerce 20:29:41 Error (1): Not in scope: data constructor `Unsafe.Coerce' 20:29:45 kmc: hi 20:29:48 ~eval import Unsafe.Coerce 20:29:49 Error (1): :1:1: parse error on input `import' 20:29:52 sux 20:29:56 yep! 20:30:05 kmc: she's just afk right now 20:30:58 ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval 20:30:59 Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~eval 20:31:18 ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval 20:31:19 Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~eval 20:31:27 ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval ~eval 20:31:27 Error (1): Pattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: ~evalPattern syntax in expression context: 20:31:33 -!- Fiora has joined. 20:31:34 >:D 20:31:40 Fiora: hey! 20:31:52 errors and patterns and syntax, oh my! 20:32:24 why is unsafeCoerce in haskell 20:32:34 it's not 20:32:36 wb Fiora 20:32:38 Fiora: Have you been enlightened by the glorious brightness of Oz yet? 20:32:48 ZARDOZ? 20:32:53 s/Oz/understanding 20:32:54 nooodl: it's an implementationy extensiony thing. 20:33:01 oh 20:33:03 why is it in ghc 20:33:11 for hax 20:33:13 Everything's in ghc. 20:33:50 oz?? 20:33:50 nooodl: well where else would you put it 20:33:57 nooodl: so you can convert between things that have the same type/same internal representation but the type system is not powerful enough to prove it 20:34:00 there is a standard unsafeLocalState though 20:34:02 a canonical use case (and one the GHC docs actually guarantee is safe) is converting between a newtype and underlying type 20:34:21 also converting from a type to Any and back to the same type 20:34:27 which is used in the implementation of Data.Dynamic 20:34:47 but mostly it gets used for weird hax to make libraries faster by knowing way too much about GHC internals 20:34:54 Presumably you could also implement Data.Dynamic with an existential Typeable value? 20:35:01 yes 20:35:09 2slow 20:35:14 oerjan's line sounds more interesting! 20:35:26 -!- variable has joined. 20:35:26 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 20:35:26 -!- variable has joined. 20:35:31 oerjan's line and kmc's lines are in fact..... the same 20:35:46 note that unsafeCoerce :: New -> Old may be safe but unsafeCoerce :: f New -> f Old isn't :'( 20:35:53 there exist a natural transformation between oerjan and kmc. 20:35:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:35:58 s/t\b/ts/ 20:36:52 it's cute when people put effort in their s/// regexes 20:37:40 s/effort/logic and sanity/ 20:37:44 :D 20:39:45 lambdabot is back in #haskell but not in #esoteric... what a jerkbot 20:39:57 eek 20:40:22 ~echo ~echo ~echo 20:40:22 ~echo ~echo 20:40:49 nooodl: maybe it got reset a couple years again 20:42:10 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:42:44 shachaf: you realise lambdabot just takes ages to join every channel right 20:43:10 did you mean "nooodl: " 20:43:11 elliott: hey i trusted oerjan 20:43:16 by oerjan i mean nooodl 20:43:48 jerkbot 5000 20:44:07 also, how many channels is lambdabot in? 20:44:14 68 20:44:14 hth 20:44:33 @list 20:44:33 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 20:44:45 -!- augur has joined. 20:44:52 wow @unlambda 20:44:55 @channels 20:44:56 Unknown command, try @list 20:44:57 @list-channels 20:44:57 Unknown command, try @list 20:45:00 @where are you 20:45:00 I know nothing about are. 20:45:02 @listchans 20:45:03 @channel-list 20:45:03 ##crypto ##freebsd ##logic ##proggit ##unavailable ##villagegreen #agda #codez #darcs #diagrams #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs # 20:45:03 haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-game #haskell-in-depth #haskell-lens #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell. 20:45:03 dut #haskell.es #haskell.se #haskell.tw #learnanycomputerlanguage #ledger #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix #unicycling #xmonad #yi 20:45:03 weird# 20:45:03 Unknown command, try @list 20:45:05 yes that one. 20:45:07 Whoa 20:45:15 haskell-freebsd 20:45:16 weird# 20:45:18 that command list is outdates 20:45:19 gentoo-haskell 20:45:21 what is this 20:45:21 s/.$/d/ 20:45:31 lambdabot: what are your real commands 20:45:34 lambdabot: ? 20:45:34 Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add 20:45:35 djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune 20:45:35 fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma 20:45:35 karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline 20:45:35 oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc 20:45:36 read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc 20:45:38 topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow 20:45:40 scannedinavian 20:45:45 shcahf.... 20:45:46 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 20:45:47 "\"" 20:46:37 uhm, is there only a single global lambdabot instance running, or are they a channel-wise hive conglomerate? 20:46:47 monqy: calling me shcahf is like calling elliott... elitot 20:47:05 eliot 20:47:05 @rot13 test 20:47:06 Unknown command, try @list 20:48:17 lambdabot: You are standing in a great ballroom. It has been lavishly decorated. You now turn into a giant banana split. 20:48:25 -!- my has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 20:48:39 boily: there can only be one "lambdabot" per network 20:48:54 olsner: well once upon a time there was lambdabot2 20:49:09 that's not lambdabot, that's lambdabot2 20:49:20 theres also thutubot! 20:49:52 olsner: hey! lambdabot2 is lambdabot too! 20:50:24 :☺) 20:50:38 monqy: were you raised in a bus? 20:50:38 That may be true, but there's not enough lambdabot to go around. 20:50:49 shachaf: is that what elliott told you 20:50:58 maybe 20:51:03 what elliott told me is between elliott and me 20:51:05 and the bus 20:52:19 ~eval let f c = chr . (if c >= 'a' && c < 'n' then (+13) else (if c >= 'n' && c <= 'z' then (+(-13)) else id)) . ord $ c in map f "yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw" 20:52:20 "luwhyjjvrsmbwpoklooehjrrwj" 20:52:44 I understand. 20:53:55 @djinn-names 20:53:55 Either Left Right Maybe Nothing Just Bool False True Void Not Void Monad Eq Bool 20:54:02 whoa good command 20:54:14 void not viod 20:54:15 void 20:54:17 like djinn-env but it doesn't spam the channel 20:54:18 is there a unicode char for a schoolbus? 20:54:36 1F68C BUS [] 20:54:36 1F68D ONCOMING BUS [] 20:56:28 1F3EB SCHOOL [] 20:56:35 hey elliott there's a unicode codepoint for you 20:57:03 is there a unicode codepoint for me 20:57:15 no 20:57:18 :( 20:57:19 there's one for MONKEY 20:57:25 thats not me 20:57:25 1F412 MONKEY [] 20:57:29 COMBINING FRIENDSHIP MONQY ABOVE [] 20:57:32 1F435 MONKEY FACE [] is that you 20:57:42 1F648 SEE-NO-EVIL MONKEY [] 20:57:42 1F649 HEAR-NO-EVIL MONKEY [] 20:57:43 1F64A SPEAK-NO-EVIL MONKEY [] 20:58:08 those are pretty good 20:58:15 dwarf fortress would make awesome use of that 20:58:25 ... 20:58:26 hey Bike 20:58:29 033C COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW [̼] 20:58:33 yes 20:58:39 COMBINING BUS ABOVE 20:58:50 you know shachaf means seagull right Bike 20:59:01 oh that's real huh 20:59:01 yes 20:59:11 i feel honoured 20:59:19 maybe even honouured 20:59:19 in what language? 20:59:27 hebrew 20:59:29 a bike, a seagull and a bus walk into an above... 21:01:56 ad then nooga kicks in 21:02:16 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:02:41 1F630 FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND COLD SWEAT [] 21:02:42 1F631 FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR [] 21:02:52 wow unicode is great 21:02:54 thanks unicode 21:03:04 yes 21:03:15 i wish i had fonts that could actually render anything on the astral plane 21:03:18 1F70A ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR VINEGAR [] 21:03:36 um there's no such plane as "the astral plane" 21:03:46 well on any astral plane 21:03:54 Unicode Character 'CAT FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY' (U+1F639) 21:03:57 @ask zzo38 are you into alchemy 21:03:58 Consider it noted. 21:04:13 1F6AF DO NOT LITTER SYMBOL [] 21:04:15 1F6AE PUT LITTER IN ITS PLACE SYMBOL [] 21:04:35 1F625 DISAPPOINTED BUT RELIEVED FACE [] 21:04:46 It tells a story. 21:04:59 1F4C8 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND [] 21:05:00 1F4C9 CHART WITH DOWNWARDS TREND [] 21:05:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:05:02 okay i just fell over laughing thanks fizzie 21:05:06 1F4B9 CHART WITH UPWARDS TREND AND YEN SIGN [] 21:05:21 Those are the only three CHARTs. 21:05:41 how nippocentric 21:07:11 how did deadfish replace Emmental on the front page <-- elliott edit the template hth 21:07:16 *edited 21:07:17 U+1F47D EXTRATERRESTRIAL ALIEN U+1F47E ALIEN MONSTER I'm tempted to go into the character charts to see the example renderings of these. It sounds like there might be quite a lot of variation. 21:07:25 (I only have a UnicodeData.txt to read.) 21:08:18 fizzie: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47d/index.htm , http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47e/index.htm 21:08:26 1F4D3 NOTEBOOK [] 21:08:26 1F4D4 NOTEBOOK WITH DECORATIVE COVER [] 21:08:32 the decision to render unicode character names in all uppercase was the greatest of the human race 21:08:53 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:09:02 I like the alien monster. It's very monstrous. 21:09:08 Though it looks kinda sad. 21:09:12 isn't that just an octopus or something 21:09:24 it seems I have a font somewhere that can render the alien face. 21:10:46 U+1F51E NO ONE UNDER EIGHTEEN SYMBOL I parsed this as "(no one) under (eighteen symbol)" and not "(no one under eighteen) symbol". 21:11:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 21:11:08 fizzie, what does that symbol look like? 21:11:28 An 18 in a circle with a \ through it. 21:11:40 I don't know how it signifies the "under" part. 21:11:40 what about the alien stuff? 21:11:45 Isn't that "no one presently 18"? 21:11:49 Well, Gregor provided links. 21:12:07 heh 21:12:13 U+1F4B8: MONEY WITH WINGS 21:12:18 oh here's my unicode glyph 21:12:18 shachaf: You'd think so, yes. Perhaps it means "under 18" because the \ is under the 18, not on top. 21:12:18 why the hell did they put this stuff in 21:12:20 seriously? 21:12:27 because of 21:12:28 nooodl, example rendering? 21:12:35 the haskell (MONEY WITH WINGS) operator 21:12:38 http://www.charbase.com/images/glyph/128184 21:13:00 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4b8/money_with_wings.png 21:13:00 oh I read it as "monkey with wings" 21:13:01 right 21:13:09 i like money more 21:14:11 @let 💸 x y = "enterprise joke" 21:14:12 Plugin `eval' failed with: Enum.toEnum{Word8}: tag (128184) is outside of bounds (0,255) 21:14:17 monstrous. 21:14:49 In 1F60B FACE SAVOURING DELICIOUS FOOD I don't really see any food being swallowed in the example render -- that's http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f60b/face_savouring_delicious_food.png 21:15:16 1F612 UNAMUSED FACE [] 21:15:36 -!- augur has joined. 21:16:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:16:37 Truly, Miscellaneous Symbols And Pictographs + Emoticons together has the bests. 21:16:42 -!- augur has joined. 21:17:36 The rest is just SERIOUS BUSINESS stuff like MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC CAPITAL THETA SYMBOL or MUSICAL SYMBOL TEMPUS IMPERFECTUM CUM PROLATIONE IMPERFECTA DIMINUTION-3 or CUNEIFORM SIGN KASKAL OVER KASKAL LAGAB TIMES U OVER LAGAB TIMES U or so on. 21:18:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:18:06 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:18:39 once again boily chickens out 21:20:06 The cuneiform signs make me worry I'm seeing double. 21:20:17 U+1203D CUNEIFORM SIGN ASH OVER ASH OVER ASH CROSSING ASH OVER ASH OVER ASH. 21:20:29 Sexy. 21:20:39 hey that's pretty good 21:21:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:22:28 It's no ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM but it's still a pretty long name. 21:24:13 ouch 21:25:45 it's no CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY either 21:25:58 is that a yes or a yeesh <-- it's a yesh and you should read mutts some time. 21:26:52 fizzie: i guess the sumerians liked repeating things until they stuck 21:33:08 unfortunately the only reference anyone can fucking bother with is 42 soooooooooooooooo <-- Ah. This is obviously some strange usage of the word "only" that I hadn't previously been aware of. 21:33:36 yes 21:34:34 hey it's monqy party time 21:34:37 hi monqy 21:34:39 its the usage of "only" that means "it's the one that sticks out like a sore thumb except it's not just a sore thumb it's mutilated and smells bad and makes me want to vomit even though it was once a good thumb it had good origins and it makes me sad that it's not a good thumb anymore" 21:34:44 um 21:34:46 hi shachaf 21:35:14 good party 21:36:56 monqy: i think u missed oerjan joke 21:37:54 i dont remember h2g2 well enough to pick up most ref.s but i had a vague feeling it might be one just because tyhatd be a dang obvious joke 21:37:57 if thats what youre getting at 21:38:00 idk if it is one tho 21:38:24 have you not noticed all of oerjan's jokes are obvious & that's why they're great 21:38:24 h²g² 21:38:33 oerjan is the best 21:38:39 -!- augur has joined. 21:38:43 i wish everyone was like oerjan 21:38:44 oerjan++ 21:38:49 i'll rely on fizzie's encyclopedic knowledge of h2g2's text to supply The Originalle 21:39:07 elliott: help i'm failing to google any references in what monqy said about sore thumbs 21:39:26 i'm sure there must be some 21:39:32 oerjan: it's ok you'll feel better over time 21:39:44 i didnt use a reference to my knowledge it was 1000% original 21:40:03 monqy: wow you should write books 21:40:04 wow 21:40:10 that's a lot of originality 21:41:12 11:13 monqy: um there's also almost but not entirely unlike X 21:41:23 elliott you dropped a word 21:41:25 don't do that 21:41:34 stuff like that i can remember. 21:41:36 1000% original books 21:41:44 have you not noticed all of oerjan's jokes are obvious & that's why they're great <-- help i'm not sure whether i should be proud or insulted 21:42:09 oh so that is why everyone hates my jokes. They are too subtle? 21:42:21 Vorpal: wait you tell jokes? 21:42:30 Vorpal: we'd hate them if we noticed them, maybe? 21:42:34 waaay to subtle 21:42:46 it helps if they're funny, also 21:42:56 elliott: ime it doesn't matter really 21:42:58 though oerjan gets by fine without that 21:43:12 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 21:43:13 elliott, hey, I find him funny at times. 21:43:20 oh dear. 21:43:24 at times? 21:43:25 oerjan's jokes may be worse than I feared then 21:43:25 I'M PRETTY SURE THAT CROSSED OVER TO INSULT 21:43:47 monqy, well, nobody can be spot on EVERY time. 21:43:56 monqy, but perhaps I should say most of the time 21:44:08 makes sense 21:45:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:45:39 Speaking of humor, why is it (on a evolutionary level) that humor exists? 21:46:12 Also, why is watching physics engines in games spaz out so funny? 21:46:55 elliott, And speaking of games, I assume you have seen the kickstarter to the Planescape: Torment sequel? 21:47:08 nope 21:47:19 elliott, if you liked Ps:T: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera 21:47:30 many of the same guys behind it 21:47:58 just 50 hours to go so.. 21:48:19 I haven't even played Planescape 21:48:23 oh okay 21:48:29 elliott, why not? 21:48:33 it is a great game 21:48:58 elliott, tell me at least you played Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale? 21:50:49 nope 21:50:55 oh dear 21:51:18 elliott, well take a look at the kickstarter to see if you want to back it I guess then 21:51:21 fsvo "great game" 21:51:35 the gameplay is, by all accounts, a complete bore 21:51:39 Phantom_Hoover, well okay, the combat is bad 21:51:45 Phantom_Hoover, the story however is excellent 21:52:20 also I should probably call the new kickstarter a spiritual successor rather than a sequel 21:52:56 kickstarter is the cornerstone of the spiritual successor industry, after all 21:53:04 true words 21:53:43 there is also that other game, Project Eternity (by Obsidian, the company that made Fallout New Vegas), which is also a spiritual successor to Ps:T 21:53:48 looks interesting too 21:54:12 and of course obsidian have a proven track record of delivering on their promises 21:54:20 nope 21:54:27 I expect that game to be buggy :P 21:55:15 obsidian is kind of legendary for being forced by publishers to release games before they're ready :/ 21:55:32 Phantom_Hoover, but I can think of several good games that Obsidian made, they just required post-launch patching. The actual game (story & game play) is usually good though. Just buggy on launch. 21:55:34 "forced" 21:55:49 um, yeah, forced, the publisher conrols the release date 21:56:01 the story of new vegas is pretty amazing. bethesda told them not to do QA, because bethesda would be in charge of QA. and then they didn't do QA 21:56:02 I enjoyed Fallout New Vegas a hell of a lot more than Fallout 3 21:56:07 though neither was a bad game 21:56:40 new vegas was pretty wonderful. that and KOTOR 2 are the things I think of when I think of obsidian 21:56:41 Fallout New Vegas just had a massively more interesting setting & story. Much more interesting missions. More interesting characters. 21:56:43 Fiora, my understanding is that obsidian picked a business model where they were contracted to make a game for a set fee 21:57:05 Phantom_Hoover: the publisher has a lot more control beyond just the price they pay, though 21:57:07 and then acted completely obliviously to this by totally ignoring their deadlines 21:57:32 I mean New Vegas wasn't just rough around the edges; the entire save system was fundamentally broken. 21:57:39 ? saving worked okay here 21:58:12 Fiora.... 21:58:35 * Fiora ? 21:58:36 (Did you play it at release? And anyway that's immaterial, because for a lot of people it definitely was.) 21:58:43 um, yeah, I played it at release 21:59:02 it was a little buggy but it's not like it was skyrim-buggy 21:59:45 in short, I expect Project Eternity to be awesome but buggy on launch. Torment: Tides of Numenera is however a bit more unsafe card. It could be good. I would guess that a game will come out of that though, since their previous kickstarter (Wasteland 2) is well along it's development. They said that they are working on two games at a time, so that the pre-production team has something to do when the pre 21:59:46 vious game is in production. 21:59:55 which sounds reasonable to me 21:59:57 I guess I'm just extremely suspicious of the narrative that Obsidian's games are all ruined by publishers. 22:00:23 I mean they've made what, six games with as many publishers? And they've all been unfinished messes? 22:00:34 Phantom_Hoover, same here. I did not play Vegas on release, and I did enjoy it a lot when I did play it, which was probably a year or so after release. 22:00:43 I have the game of the year edition of Vegas. 22:01:10 I loved the shit out of NV, though there were still things Bethesda do better. 22:01:14 Phantom_Hoover: well, publishers being at fault doesn't mean obsidian isn't at fault in any respect, that's not really what I meant, sorry >_< 22:01:39 the best example of a developer totally botching a contract like that though has to be that new Aliens game though :P 22:01:59 Phantom_Hoover, oh? Like what? 22:02:38 Phantom_Hoover, I really can't think of anything I liked more in Fallout 3 than Fallout NV 22:02:41 Vorpal, geographical design, most obviously. 22:02:53 NV is all box canyons, cliffs and invisible walls. 22:03:08 Bethesda are actually really good at making environments that are fun to just roam around in. 22:03:16 hm, not so much invisible walls that I remember, except for the edges of the map obviously 22:03:33 Oh jesus christ, you missed those? I had to mod them out, they drove me insane. 22:03:50 Phantom_Hoover, I did play with unofficial patches and so on of course 22:04:00 They were at the top of basically every geographical barrier. 22:04:42 Phantom_Hoover, hm, I guess I just tried to go around, since climbing over would be wasteful of resources if you role play the game. :P 22:05:19 after all, if you role play it, or play it on hard enough difficulty, you have to deal with water shortage. 22:05:50 hm was KOTOR 2 buggy on release? I never played the game. 22:06:03 it was somewhat buggy but there were also like, huge sections of the game uncompleted 22:06:07 oh 22:06:12 what about NWN2? 22:06:12 with assets there but that got diked out in the final release 22:06:18 I think years later it was completed by fans with an unofficial patch 22:07:59 hm 22:12:03 I got the feeling that Project Eternity was more a spiritual successor to BG (or Infinity Engine games in general) than specifically PS:T. 22:12:52 They also just got the stretch goal of getting the original PS:T lead designer in their team at the Torment/Numenera kickstarter. 22:14:16 And inXile also recently kickstarted Wasteland 2, which could be seen as a kind of a Fallout thing, indirectly. 22:14:41 (I'm quite high up in the backscroll, sorry for potentially repeating things.) 22:15:24 hello fizzie 22:15:30 * oerjan waves 22:15:38 we've been waiting for you fizzie 22:15:39 sit down 22:15:40 * Fiora wavies? 22:15:52 KOTOR II's lead designer is also working for the new Torment. 22:16:12 I got the feeling that Project Eternity was more a spiritual successor to BG (or Infinity Engine games in general) than specifically PS:T. <-- well yes, true 22:16:28 (I mean, it's the same guy.) 22:17:08 I do look forward to both Project Eternity and the new Torment. 22:18:32 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:18:34 The new Torment is so far the only thing I've kicked in the shin^Wstart; other than that I've managed to not get involved with that kind of things. 22:20:02 I approve of the general idea of Kickstarter but looking too closely makes me annoyed. 22:20:22 Especially after they gave all that money to David "massive jaw" Braben. 22:21:26 And they gave all that other money to Peter Molyneux! People are such sheep. 22:22:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:23:09 Phantom_Hoover, what was it that Molyneux kickstarted? Trying to remember 22:23:23 Not "Curiosity" I hope? 22:23:38 because that was an utter clusterfuck 22:23:44 A pocketful of mumbles, I believe. 22:23:54 how did that curiosity thing end 22:24:13 https://twitter.com/PeterMolydeux 22:24:41 "There is actually nothing in the middle of the cube. It just keeps going on forever #April Fools" hope that answers your question 22:25:04 heh 22:25:24 Bike, was his statement a joke or the game a joke though 22:25:31 that could be interpreted either way 22:25:37 That's Molydeux. 22:25:42 «Sheffield first revealed Gunhouse, a title about a “house made of guns” that has to “defend some orphans from Alien Invaders.”» 22:25:43 oh right 22:25:49 Phantom_Hoover, thanks, didn't even notice 22:26:00 Read the rest of the account's tweet's, they're `the best' 22:26:14 "@PeterMolyneux's tweets are protected. 22:26:15 Only confirmed followers have access to @PeterMolyneux's Tweets and complete profile. Click the "Follow" button to send a follow request. 22:26:15 " 22:26:15 hm 22:26:16 ok but seriously did anyone get to the bottom 22:26:23 is that the real guy? I guess not 22:26:47 ah no 22:27:00 MolyDeux is a parody account 22:27:02 It is https://twitter.com/pmolyneux 22:27:02 elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Curiosity_-_What%27s_Inside_the_Cube%3F_layers 22:27:09 @ask atriq Trivia: I have a cousin who is just like me, except Australian and somehow less awesome. <-- they live in one of the other two Hexhams, right? 22:27:10 Consider it noted. 22:27:11 it started by tweeting a bunch of incredibly silly (molyneux-esque?) game ideas 22:27:22 which eventualy started an actual game jam in which people spend a few days actually making some of the silliest ideas 22:27:43 My favourite was the driving game where you play as the road. 22:27:45 wow this cannot possibly be notable. 22:27:55 http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/167882/Postmortem_What_Would_Molydeux__a_global_game_jam_.php 22:28:49 A while ago I watched a LPy thing of Barkley's Shut Up And Jam: Gaiden, and it was really bizarre. 22:28:50 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:28:50 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 22:28:50 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:29:11 elliott, it is however a LIST. Wikipedia loves LISTS and TABLES. 22:29:24 Also why am I talking like POKEMON games? 22:30:29 "5 minute game where you play an asteroid that is headed towards Earth. Everyone hates you. All you can do is talk, what would you say?" 22:30:56 Vorpal: i think you mean POKéMON 22:31:02 "A game where you can only progress during 3 random minutes every day. It's up to social media to help people play at the right time" 22:31:21 nooodl_, oh right 22:31:28 "I want to make a ps4 game that is just a room with locked door that can only be opened if 1 million users are watching you at the same time" XD 22:31:29 "It's up to social media" seems topicable 22:31:37 ONLY YOU CAN SAVE THE DAY, SOCIAL MEDIA! 22:32:01 "Imagine if you could control an enemy on the console game your child is playing without them knowing via a smartphone?" remains the best 22:32:30 hehe 22:32:43 wow that's giving me great ideas 22:33:17 games that pretend to be single-player, but parts of the game are being filled in by someone else... you could really screw with players' minds 22:33:41 nooodl_, you mean like Journey, but covert? 22:34:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_(2012_video_game) this? 22:34:53 what if the game's difficulty was linked to how many people were dying from wars? players would have to lobby their governments to make the killing stop if they wanted to get past that jump -- look i'm molydeux 22:34:54 yes 22:35:07 "Action game where every time you die you spawn in the same area but 10 seconds in the past. You need to rescue yourself to continue." this... this is aactually amazing 22:35:33 nooodl_, it is one of those games where the critics start wondering aloud about the line between games and art. Like with Shadow of the Colossus. 22:36:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: It's up to social media | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 22:36:38 Fiora, amazing idea, but I'm not sure how well it would actually work 22:37:25 oh wow. there's... actually a game in development doing that 22:37:34 http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/03/23/super-time-force-makes-you-cooperate-with-yourself.aspx 22:39:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:47 oerjan: is #esoteric a social media? 22:40:47 Vorpal: I think you that you are talking like HOMESTUCK, which is the MOST GLORIOUS WEBCOMIC 22:41:16 coppro, I was thinking of the Pokemon games though 22:42:00 http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/03/23/super-time-force-makes-you-cooperate-with-yourself.aspx <-- that is one weird trailer at the bottom of the page 22:42:02 what the hell 22:42:07 hey fizzie 22:42:21 what happens if you plot number of layers of curiosity uncovered against time 22:43:05 Fiora: the game trailer promises it will cause the player to physically harm themselves. that's a good game 22:43:07 o_O 22:43:26 Phantom_Hoover, well, I guess we would see either how large each layer is, or how many people play it. We couldn't predict how long it would take though, since we don't know the number of layers afaik 22:44:13 did anyone else play antichamber btw 22:44:27 and by 'anyone' i mean 'anyone who isn't Vorpal' 22:44:31 antichamber!!!! <3 22:44:45 it is an awesome game indeed 22:44:55 very different than other games I played 22:45:34 it's an impressive feat of abusing a game engine 22:45:43 that too yes 22:45:50 I just loved how it was like... an open world puzzle game 22:45:52 Oh, is it an old engine? 22:45:54 Phantom_Hoover, I really liked that fake count down timer. 22:45:56 and there were so many ways to solve each problem 22:46:12 Bike, it's UE3 22:46:14 Bike, Unreal 3 iirc, but err, there is non-euclidean geometry 22:46:18 and all the time, when solving a problem, there was that feeling of "oh wow this is totally cheating there's no way I'm supposed to do it this way" 22:46:21 Nice. 22:46:21 no there isn't!!! 22:46:24 Real non-eucl- oh. 22:46:25 but you know they probably intended for you to be able to do it that way 22:46:30 there's, like, globally noneuclidean features 22:46:33 Phantom_Hoover, well not on screen at any point 22:46:55 but yes, there are stuff you can walk around for more than 360 degrees without getting back to the same place 22:46:57 Fiora: hypothesis: the developers didn't actually put in any solutions for any puzzle, they just assumed you'd abuse the engine into getting through 22:46:57 the actual geometry is everywhere euclidean 22:46:59 it was such a wonderful explorey thing 22:47:00 that sort of stuff 22:47:14 Bike: it was't like, engine abuse, just solutions that felt really hacky 22:47:19 Fiora, I did end up having to look up solutions in a couple of places, which really annoyed me. 22:47:27 ... yeah, I did too, in a couple :< 22:47:34 and all the time, when solving a problem, there was that feeling of "oh wow this is totally cheating there's no way I'm supposed to do it this way" <-- not all the time, but yes, sometimes definitely 22:47:37 it felt doubly worse when they were /so obvious/ in retrospect -_- 22:47:52 like the way to get across that gap labelled "WTF?" 22:47:58 Phantom_Hoover, had to look up a solution in one place, forgot what it was now. 22:48:04 olsner: of course not, media is plural 22:48:07 I puzzled over it for ages and the solution was just so dead simple 22:48:09 I think they could've made it clearer that rectangles would fill themselves in. 22:48:29 I didn't know at the start of the game that I'd get another cube gun -_- 22:48:36 so I got 'stuck' on the things that needed the green cube gun 22:48:39 man it really does look like a shinier Mondo Medicals 22:48:45 Fiora, which one was the WTF one. I played the game like a couple of days after release, so I forgot what puzzle went where 22:48:48 oerjan: social medium then, sounds about right for #esoteric 22:48:57 Vorpal: it was a red gap with the text "WTF?" in it, in red cubes 22:48:59 Vorpal, the one with a big floating "WTF" in it 22:49:07 and it had that gas that stopped you from placing cubes there 22:49:16 Phantom_Hoover, was it the one where you couldn't place blocks? Or the one where the text was blocks? 22:49:22 there were like both kinds of gaps 22:49:28 Both. 22:49:29 and you couldn't do abusiveness like moving blocks in from outside or moving the text 22:49:33 so it 'seemed' like there was no way across 22:49:45 spoiler:the solution is not to go across at all 22:49:54 Phantom_Hoover, in one place I remember placing blocks below the area I couldn't place blocks and doing a "cheating-feeling" solution to get across 22:50:04 Fiora, oh right, that gap 22:50:06 true 22:50:10 I think that was it XD 22:50:30 -!- copumpkin has quit. 22:50:33 I was hoping that wold just be more spaces 22:50:34 *would 22:50:50 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:50:53 elliott, in Antichamber? 22:51:03 Fiora, I never quite figured out how to properly use the red gun. 22:51:14 Didn't always act like I wanted 22:51:21 I think it's like, you just sort of use it to pull the blocks around? 22:51:23 it was kind of tricky though 22:51:32 it took a lot of effort to finagle it into doing what I wanted 22:51:33 Or push them out 22:51:46 it was the pushing out that was the major issue 22:51:56 To push is enough! 22:51:57 Vorpal: in Fiora's line 22:51:58 one thing I learned quickly was you can't always move the blocks in any direction, since you can only move them towards a spot you can point the gun at 22:52:01 elliott, oh okay 22:52:07 elliott, did you play the game in question? 22:52:18 Fiora, well yes obviously 22:52:28 so like, if you're pointing to a block on the floor, you can't use the gun to lift the block up unless there's a wall you can point at 22:52:41 Vorpal: nope 22:52:44 it was kind of nonintuitive at least I felt but it was fun 22:53:24 Fiora, also I had watched TotalBiscuit's video on youtube before buying the game, so I did know a bit of what to expect at the start. In hindsight the game would have been more enjoyable without that, but I never buy a game without reading reviews or watching initial impressions, so... 22:53:32 ah 22:53:34 I went into it totally blind 22:53:37 I think the little red line made that easy enough to grasp. 22:53:38 (obviously, kickstarters are an exception to this) 22:53:50 I think I pretty much went just off the rockpapershotgun review >.> 22:54:03 * Bike loads up an LP 22:54:03 Also TB's footage only showed the first 5 or 6 rooms. 22:54:11 lovin' the inspirational messages all over the place 22:54:16 Fiora, really his video was from PaX the previous year, and didn't cover it all the way up to the first gun even. 22:54:29 Fiora, it did help with the red/blue stairs though 22:54:36 oh that part XD 22:54:44 I got that one pretty quickly, it made me laugh 22:54:50 I loved it when the game just trolled me like that 22:55:02 Phantom_Hoover, indeed, but it helped me understand the mindset intended for the game 22:55:02 like the place where you kept going in circles and everything was repeating itself 22:55:07 but if you went like around 5 times 22:55:13 ... it led to the exit anyways 22:55:23 Fiora, that spiraled inwards though 22:55:38 Slowly enough that you can't notice at first, though. 22:55:38 ?? I guess I didn't notice that 22:55:38 I guess I didn't notice that 22:55:39 or do you mean the area with green coloured areas? 22:55:56 ummm there was that one too, but I meant the black and white slowly turning corridor 22:56:05 that went in a circle 22:56:06 Fiora, I assumed you meant the area with <> sign 22:56:10 ... yup! 22:56:11 that one 22:56:11 It'd be interesting to open Antichamber in whatever level editor UE3 has. 22:56:20 Fiora, that one spiraled. 22:56:22 ahhhh 22:56:36 Fiora, though not as much as it SHOULD have spiraled to be physically possible 22:56:37 It did a really good job of hiding the splices 22:56:41 XD 22:57:11 Phantom_Hoover, it might be generating the levels on the fly from the perspective of the character in certain situations? 22:57:40 I... don't really see what you mean. 22:57:43 Phantom_Hoover, though the clean aesthetics would help with splicing, no shadows to worry about for example. 22:58:06 Uh, all the colours are due to lighting. 22:58:32 the splicing was kind of amazing, like, the one where you look up, and the floor disappears 22:58:34 ooh, the menu's cool 22:58:35 Phantom_Hoover, I mean there might in places not be a level file as such, that the engine reads in an defines as the geometry. Rather the game code could dynamically construct the geometry visible by the player at any given time. 22:58:35 but in the meantime it changed the room's exit 22:58:44 I think the textures are all blank white. 22:59:03 Vorpal, I kind of doubt it. 22:59:08 hm 22:59:09 I loved the puzzles that were about looking somewhere 22:59:16 and just. agh. the game was so fun 22:59:20 For one thing, it would be a /lot/ of work without a custom-built engine. 22:59:36 Fiora, those puzzle made me think "how would it physically detect that" though 22:59:43 but yes, they were kind of cool 22:59:47 Fiora, I was a bit narked at the puzzle where you have to look at a circle on the wall and walk backwards though. 22:59:59 I loved that one XD 23:00:04 Fiora, btw, the thing with the pink cube moving in a slit along walls in certain areas 23:00:08 what on earth was that about 23:00:12 Because those circles were all over the place in earlier sections and they'd never had any significance before. 23:00:14 I think I googled about that later 23:00:19 and the official statement was that they literally did nothing 23:00:30 Fiora, lol, I was successfully trolled then 23:00:41 you saw how they worked though, right? 23:00:44 they'd move only when you looked at them 23:00:46 For one thing, it would be a /lot/ of work without a custom-built engine. <-- true 23:00:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:01:03 I did 23:01:11 and I moved them all along to the end in each case 23:01:14 ah, so, the pink cubes don't do something -now-, but they might do something in a future update? and they are saved ni the savegame file 23:01:17 *in 23:01:23 heh 23:04:42 night → 23:09:23 hello guys 23:13:50 Koen_: you entered 5 minutes after everyone went silent hth 23:14:22 they were expecting me of course 23:14:29 hm... 23:14:38 I'm just back from a representation of a midsummer night's dream 23:14:41 it was awesome 23:14:48 a representation 23:14:58 that sounds mysterious and probably fun since it's midsummer 23:14:58 isn't that the proper english word? 23:15:00 a representation 23:15:09 do you mean a performance? 23:15:11 as of a play 23:15:12 i'm imagining great things 23:15:14 yes I do 23:15:17 like a representation in braille 23:15:21 on a cube 23:15:23 just sort of go and look at it 23:15:29 Koen_: what you think is the proper english word never is hth 23:15:29 or maybe a representation of it as music 23:15:36 a misdummer night's dream you can smell 23:15:44 yeah that tends to happen a lot 23:15:51 if you can't smell a performance of midsummer it's not a very good performance imo 23:15:51 so how about you all go silent for five minutes 23:15:55 and I enter again 23:20:05 hello guys! 23:21:18 what 23:23:08 I'm just back from a performance of a midsummer night's dream 23:23:12 it was awesome 23:23:38 a performance? 23:23:39 I think you mean a representation 23:24:05 yeah 23:24:11 the part of hippolyta will be played by this integer 23:24:24 what 23:24:26 seriously? 23:24:30 yes 23:25:00 what i want to know is whether it was a _unitary_ representation. 23:25:02 I'm not gonna look it up - I trust you guys! 23:25:10 what's a unitary 23:25:16 a kind of matrix 23:25:22 does that mean it all takes place in the same place and at the same time 23:25:28 thanks Bike 23:25:41 Koen_: no, that's greek drama i think 23:25:46 Koen_: ps i wasn't being serious 23:26:01 elliot not being serious? do you expect me to believe that! 23:26:12 elliot is always serious. 23:26:38 hm a unitary matrix is a "square root" of "unity", that's neat 23:27:01 Bike: um that's not true. 23:27:24 oh no conjugate transpose 23:28:12 btw Hippolyta was played by the same actress as Titania - which kinda makes sense since Hippolyta DOESN'T SAY A WORD IN THE WHOLE DAMN PLAY 23:28:22 it's a normal matrix whose eigenvalues are all on the unit circle. 23:28:57 that's pretty cool. 23:30:16 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:30:34 oh that's listed as point 7 on wikipedia 23:31:44 -!- sivoais has joined. 23:35:56 -!- constant has joined. 23:51:31 So, I guess an educational excersize for me might be for me to write a class Upcastable child parent where upcast :: child -> parent 23:51:36 And just start writing instances 23:57:28 Sgeo: i think i must ban you for trolling hth 23:57:46 ? 23:58:18 that sounds like stereotypically trying to force OO idioms to work in haskell 23:58:32 which is a common newbie error 23:58:35 is that really a "cast" 23:58:37 * Sgeo is not doing it with practical intent 23:59:24 O KAY 2013-04-04: 00:00:42 oerjan: are you sure you didn't mean ban me for trolling 00:00:47 i did do the dahl.net thing once remember 00:01:10 but imo dont ban me because im too cool to get banned 00:01:57 shachaf: that would be like sentencing a masochist to lashes 00:02:23 oerjan: i don't want to get banned 00:02:51 YOUR REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY WILL GET YOU NOWHERE 00:03:19 h8r 00:03:53 I'm already getting ambiguous type constraints 00:03:54 Yay 00:04:15 `run echo 'write a class Upcastable child parent where upcast :: child -> parent' | rainwords 00:04:18 ​write a class Upcastable child parent where upcast :: child -> parent 00:04:20 imo just upcase = unsafeCoerce 00:04:34 listen to Bike 00:04:43 That's how C++ works right 00:05:23 Jafet: in C++ it's unsafeCoerce and a bit of pointer arithmetic 00:05:31 It's now complaining about overlapping instances 00:05:50 Sgeo: have you considered that you're doing bad things and you should stop 00:06:18 instance (Upcastable a b, Upcastable b c) => Upcastable a c where 00:06:21 That's the only bad thing 00:06:24 So far 00:06:26 Sgeo............................ 00:06:27 wow 00:06:29 wow. 00:07:04 * Sgeo will skip that for now 00:07:27 btw sgeo i think i'm going to have beaten you out for farmingdaleness soon 00:07:33 this school has a degree program in organic food 00:07:33 Bike: So you know what a lens is, right? 00:07:37 "I tried to write java in haskell, but it wouldn't typecheck" 00:07:45 i've heard of lensess 00:08:01 Bike: Here's a lens lens: type Lens s t a b = forall f. Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t 00:08:14 What's a lens do 00:08:19 -!- augur has joined. 00:08:19 focuses 00:08:23 ooh 00:08:27 Nothing I'm trying shouldn't typecheck 00:08:32 I'm not supporting downcasting 00:09:30 does Bike know more about Sgeo than instance resolution already 00:09:41 Bike: quick, tell me about the open world assumption 00:09:43 no i just like laughing at things 00:10:09 the open world assumption is that thing which is why you get errors like "No instance for (Num String)" instead of "you can't add strings together douchelord" 00:10:40 well... sort of. 00:10:55 i mean you could rephrase "No instance for Num String" as "you can't Num Strings douchelord" 00:11:02 Bike: wait you know things about Sgeo? 00:11:03 because it's assuming that maybe there could be an instance for Num String, instead of just saying "well there's no way that's possible" 00:11:11 well sort of 00:11:18 you have the basic idea down I give you 7.5/10 00:11:24 k 00:11:31 douchelord 00:11:35 lol 00:11:38 put in a bit of work and it could be 7.6/10, Bike 00:11:38 shachaf: There's also a Farmingdale near the place. It's actually called Farmingdale. 00:11:41 Thanks nooga. 00:12:00 n/p 00:12:02 i can't tell if elliott's thing was on purpose or not 00:12:03 help 00:12:21 should i assume "yes" 00:12:28 yes 00:12:54 the open elliott assumption 00:12:55 what thing 00:13:08 I like to think that this gets covariance and contravariance concrete in my head 00:13:31 well it gets some kind of concrete in your head 00:14:13 shachaf: it has to become a brainfuck derivative first 00:14:31 @pl \f a b -> f (a b) 00:14:31 (.) 00:14:32 oerjan: nobody said anything about a brick 00:14:42 or about a brain for that matter 00:14:52 okay 00:14:52 hey guys 00:15:12 hello nooga 00:15:12 i have this new idea for an esoteric programming language 00:15:23 based on gyroscopy? 00:15:28 no 00:15:47 gynoscopy 00:15:48 _;_ 00:15:59 does it have 8 commands? 00:16:01 basically it's like brainfuck bit with elliott instead of - 00:16:51 this major is literally how to be a farmer. awesome 00:17:28 hmm 00:17:47 Bike: can you get it from farmingdale 00:18:20 Bike: also: what are its poultry science buildings like. 00:18:38 no but it's a few miles south of Farmington, Washington 00:18:48 pop. 146 00:19:15 Um. 00:19:20 I think I found a GHC bug. 00:19:44 let's take bets on whether Sgeo found a ghcbug 00:19:56 Although it's in 7.4.2 so maybe it's well-known and fixed 00:20:04 what is the bug 00:20:20 oh, 7.4.2 00:20:36 Something about irrefutable pattern failed 00:20:40 http://ideone.com/wAuRUq 00:21:03 I see ideone upgraded their GHC 00:21:06 i like those extensions. 00:21:19 Oh, maybe that is a GHC bug. 00:21:19 Oh, I should get rid of OverlappingInstances 00:21:33 It didn't even help the one that was complaining about overlapping whatever 00:21:41 It's fixed in 7.6 00:21:50 The bug is in this line: 00:21:51 instance (Upcastable c1 p1, Upcastable c2 p2) => (p1 -> c2) -> (c1 -> p2) where 00:22:02 Please note that (->) is not a type class. 00:22:13 ...derp 00:22:31 danm 00:22:56 but what if it was 00:23:16 -XWhatIf 00:23:44 oh, this paper is cool. 00:24:07 is it the paper about making reals without making rationals 00:24:45 thshachaf 00:25:08 sgeo's thing seems like it could have a more comprehensible error, though. 00:25:18 yes that's what was fixed in 7.6 00:25:23 hooray! 00:25:27 Bike: no but that paper sounds cool too, link 00:25:32 i mean i can think of ways to do it. 00:25:35 also it's probably classical and awful. 00:25:40 Bike, it is a GHC bug. The error is not supposed to be about irrefutable patterns being broken in compiler code 00:25:42 but link anyway. 00:25:45 Bike: R is just the power set of N hth 00:25:54 (this one is Operational Semantics Using the Partiality Monad by Nils Anders Danielsson.) 00:26:24 http://arxiv.org/abs/math/0405454 00:26:32 Nils Anders Danielsson 00:26:44 is he all done with writing fairy tales? 00:27:03 it has plenty of category theoryy stuff in it iirc 00:27:11 though maybe i'm being confused with how i was reading about adjoints later 00:27:14 @pl \f c -> uc (f (uc c)) 00:27:14 (uc .) . (. uc) 00:27:33 Bike: i heard they were legal in washington now 00:27:39 @pl \f c -> uc (f (uc1 c)) 00:27:39 (uc .) . (. uc1) 00:27:45 damn straight. 00:27:53 anyway category theory more like bad theory right 00:28:05 more like theory that is stupid and dumb 00:28:24 you sure showed 'em Bike 00:28:31 "Dairy Cattle Management Laboratory" is a class. 00:28:38 :t listFromMaybe 00:28:40 Bike: wow this looks like a paper I might actually understand. 00:28:40 Not in scope: `listFromMaybe' 00:28:40 Perhaps you meant `listToMaybe' (imported from Data.Maybe) 00:28:46 elliott: weird huh 00:28:57 Bike: it's an uncommon occurrence :( 00:28:59 :t maybeToList 00:29:01 Maybe a -> [a] 00:29:10 does that really exist 00:29:16 elliott: being dumb and stupid is suffering. 00:29:24 > maybeToList (Just 437) 00:29:26 [437] 00:29:28 also, suffering is stupid and dumb 00:29:30 yes. hell yes 00:29:40 > Foldable.toList (Just 437) -- the true way to write it 00:29:41 Not in scope: `Foldable.toList' 00:29:42 dude the real numbers = just the powerset of the natural numbers 00:29:43 > F.toList (Just 437) -- the true way to write it 00:29:45 Not in scope: `F.toList' 00:29:45 Perhaps you meant one of these: 00:29:45 `S.toList' (im... 00:29:50 good job elliott. 00:29:57 shachaf: how are you going to define arithmetic on that nicely exactly 00:30:00 > Data.Foldable.toList (Just 437) -- the true way to write it 00:30:02 shachaf: That doesn't involve the word "Eudoxus" though. 00:30:02 [437] 00:30:04 elliott: i don't need to 00:30:19 > listToMaybe [437,0] 00:30:20 Just 437 00:30:21 elliott: don't you know how maths work 00:30:25 good typing 00:30:47 this guy's email is at lemma-one.com 00:30:51 that is a very yellow site. 00:31:02 holy shit, ow 00:31:06 oh that site is maintained by the person who wrote this. I get the feeling this guy might not be a Real Mathematician™ 00:31:18 hey, hey. ProofPower - a suite of tools for specification and proof in HOL and Z; also the Compliance Tool for specifying and verifying Ada programs. 00:31:21 Get on that sgeo. 00:31:25 elliott: You mean a crank? 00:31:25 as MCALLISTER Keegan used to say: what's yellow &c 00:31:40 Bike: also wait aren't you like a biologist. how do you know about this paper. I am suspicious 00:31:46 http://lemma-one.com/email.gif 00:31:52 Bike is a biologist??????????????????????????????????? 00:32:02 a wannabe biologist 00:32:07 Magnitudes are said to be in the same ratio, the first to the second 00:32:07 and the third to the fourth, when, if any equimultiples whatever are taken 00:32:07 of the first and third, and any equimultiples whatever of the second and 00:32:07 fourth, the former equimultiples alike exceed, are alike equal to, or alike 00:32:07 fall short of, the latter equimultiples respectively taken in corresponding 00:32:09 order. 00:32:10 most people i know are mathers though 00:32:12 Euclid. Elements of Geometry. Book V. Definition 5. 00:32:14 i forgot how fucking unreadable the Elements are 00:32:47 haha yeah i have that God Created the Integers book and the Elements are like "a line is a thing between two points" or whatever and it's like well... okay... 00:33:03 elliott: you think that's unreadable, try it in greek 00:33:21 but seriously, I think mathematical biology is Pretty Cool and just like math by itself anyway. 00:33:32 maybe i just like reading shit i barley understand. barley understand. barley 00:34:04 pretty sure mathematical biology cannot be a true mathematic just going by the name prove me wrong 00:34:21 elliott: is "a mathematic" what "a math" stands for 00:34:23 kolmogorov half invented it 00:34:25 qed 00:34:38 ok that's pretty good but who invented the other half 00:34:38 shachaf: no, math stands for a spelling error 00:34:46 a mathematique 00:34:46 elliott: not "math", "a math" 00:34:52 shachaf: i dunno probably lotka 00:34:53 as in one math, multiple maths 00:34:56 bah 00:35:08 kolmogorov was a weird dude. well, probably. I know nothing about him 00:35:17 I try to use upcast, now it's saying it wants incoherent instances 00:35:20 he was gay that's "pretty weird" everybody around me says 00:35:34 Sgeo: someone here is being incoherent 00:35:35 also a mega genius so probably crazy. 00:35:52 kolmogorov was the best 00:37:02 hey what does kolya stand for 00:37:09 i heard he loved to ski naked:) 00:37:15 oh it stands for nikolay 00:37:16 represent R by the 00:37:17 sequence of integers in which the m-th term, Rm say, gives the number of columns 00:37:19 to the left of or in line with the m-th railing in the figure. This sequence Rm will 00:37:20 Techniques in semen handling, insemination, and pregnancy detection in cattle. 00:37:22 represent R. 00:37:30 wow such wastefulness, should clearly replace every element with it subtracted from the previous one 00:37:45 I don't quite follow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay 00:37:52 Nikolay or Nikolai is an East Slavic variant of the feminine name Nicola, meaning "Goat Whisperer." It may refer to: 00:38:02 then there's a long list of people named nikolay 00:38:04 then 00:38:04 Nikolai Aleksandrovich or Nikolay Aleksandrovich (Russian: Николай Александрович), ofter shortened Nicolay or Nicolai without the patronymic Aleksandrovich, is a Russian male given name. It may refer to: 00:38:13 and a long list of people named nikolai aleksandrovich 00:38:21 what's special about the patronym aleksandrovich 00:38:28 it's popular i guess 00:39:44 https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/57f20df5698a128b4411 00:40:05 elon musk is going to read this as part of a letter that will decide if I am to be hired at spacex 00:40:21 Nice. 00:40:31 I think my IRC bot is impressive enough to mention (and in line with the kind of problem solving they want to see), but I have to say 'brainfuck' to a recruiter if I mention it 00:40:39 Does spacex use wacky verification stuff like NASA 00:40:54 I bet you could make some shit up about brainfuck being easy to reason about 00:40:56 what is wacky verification stuff 00:40:58 Sgeo: imo just port it to some derivative with a less offensive name 00:41:04 s/geo/irCmpwn/ 00:41:09 if you're worried about that 00:41:09 like braintrust. 00:41:15 brainsex 00:41:20 there once was a fish named fred 00:41:28 you'll have to extend it with a mechanism for output (or was it input) 00:42:28 Bike: hm I wonder how well this construction goes constructively. 00:42:38 You would! 00:42:57 Maybe you could set up some rules about where rails can be. 00:43:01 elliott: well it's a construction soooooo ................... 00:43:31 Bike: does this paper show e.g. how to define pi and such 00:43:42 no. 00:43:52 SirCmpwn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPIN_model_checker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Pathfinder that sort of stuff 00:44:01 SPIN is cool 00:44:09 i took a class from the main SPIN guy 00:44:26 wat 00:44:31 Bike: I'm upset. 00:44:39 I'm sorry. 00:44:46 Maybe you could stop being upset. 00:44:51 SirCmpwn: re: wacky verification stuff 00:45:24 oh, that stuff 00:45:28 maybe for rocket-grade software 00:45:32 but that's not what I'd be working on there 00:45:36 elliott: pi is the ratio of the length of the circumference of a circle to twice the length of the radius of a circle hth 00:45:59 isn't elon musk crazy 00:46:02 or was that the other guy 00:46:08 their space-grade software run on Linux, though, so if it's good enough for linux, it's good enough for them 00:46:31 wow, they trust rockets to Linux? 00:46:36 must have never looked at the code 00:46:54 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:46:55 Well the ISS uses Windows. 00:47:04 Nikolay or Nikolai is an East Slavic variant of the feminine name Nicola, meaning "Goat Whisperer." It may refer to: <-- that's vandalism, i've reverted it. in the process realizing you _can_ undo a row of edits simultaneously now... 00:47:39 oerjan: oh i wasn't talking about that part 00:47:44 "I don't have an issue with serving in the military per se, but serving in the South African army suppressing black people just didn't seem like a really good way to spend time" 00:47:46 Bike: not for the actual super duper important stuff I'd assume 00:47:47 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/12/drone_consoles_linux_switch/ 00:47:58 elliott: well nah. 00:48:21 "Musk went on to a graduate program in both applied physics and materials science at Stanford in 1995. He stayed two days before dropping out to start Zip2, which provided online content publishing software for news organisations," 00:49:08 ok I think it was another paypal founder who was completely crazy. 00:49:24 Musk had plans for a "Mars Oasis" project in 2001, which would land a miniature experimental greenhouse on Mars, containing food crops growing on Martian regolith. 00:49:33 Oh, you mean the one who wanted to found the place from Bioshock? 00:49:56 how about the one who wrestled on the floor 00:49:59 or did they all do that 00:50:01 right that one. 00:50:04 same one I think. 00:50:10 also the weird misogynist I think? 00:50:29 so is elon musk also an obnoxious libertarian 00:50:29 hm this other paypal guy was a producer of Thank You For Smoking, I can't hate that 00:50:30 well aren't most people? 00:50:38 like peter thiel 00:50:56 right peter thiel was the one 00:50:58 ah okay Thiel's the bioshock guy 00:51:35 ok musk seems like a decent guy. or at least I see no evidence to suggest otherwise 00:51:38 peter thiel said that letting women vote was the biggest political catastrophe of the 20th century, or something 00:51:43 except for founding a company with peter thiel I guess? 00:51:45 because it means that libertarianism won't automatically win always 00:51:49 ok i want to hear the explanation behind that 00:51:56 also I guess paypal is kind of evil but I suppose that probably came later 00:52:02 "The Diversity Myth" oh, well, 00:52:15 is that the article about how great it was that PayPal was 100% male bros from stanford 00:52:26 no it's a fucking entire book 00:52:27 and they would wrestle with each other to settle arguments? 00:52:28 oh 00:52:36 "The Diversity Myth: 'Multiculturalism' and the Politics of Intolerance at Stanford" 00:52:45 welp 00:52:46 The 'Diversity' Myth 00:52:46 pretty sure you can fill in the synopsis yourself 00:53:04 got a negative review from Condaleeza Rice, lol 00:53:11 whose name i can't spell 00:53:49 Hyperloop is a hypothetical mode of high-speed transportation proposed by inventor and SpaceX founder Elon Musk. Musk has envisioned the system as a 'fifth mode' of transportation, an alternative to boats, planes, cars and trains.[1] The system would, in theory, be able to travel from downtown Los Angeles to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes.[2] 00:55:02 oh, thiel also helped with Thank you for smoking. guess i can hate that. 00:55:18 that was a good movie though :< 00:55:56 Huh it was made by William Buckley's son! 00:55:58 at least I remember it being good 00:56:01 I didn't know htat. 00:56:04 Yeah, I liked the movie too. 00:56:16 i'm sure peter thiel has done at least one thing I like even if he is a douchebag 00:56:20 that's life 00:56:42 elliott: the optimist in me would imagine that as a book about colleges seeking superficial diversity while ignoring the hard things (e.g. class) so they end up with a bunch of ""diverse"" suburban upper-middle-class kids 00:56:46 but I'm guesing that isn't it 00:56:49 *guessing 00:56:51 hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too 00:57:00 he painted pictures? 00:57:02 he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 00:57:06 oh! he killed hitler 00:57:06 his paintings are kind of shitty 00:57:06 omg are we having a go at libertarians 00:57:07 they weren't very good pictures 00:57:10 oh yeah, there we go 00:57:12 thanks Fiora 00:57:13 that's one thing he did that was good, right 00:57:14 he killed hitler 00:57:18 so he wasn't all bad was he 00:57:19 i haven't had a good libertarian bashing for like a week 00:57:24 he also killed the guy who killed hitler 00:57:31 yeah that's right, i'm stealing a joke from a youtube comment. 00:57:36 unlike the rest of us, Phantom_Hoover is referring to literal bashing. 00:57:36 ... that's true. that's pretty bad 00:57:45 a side-project to unwind from all the brainfuck derivative brainbricking 00:58:05 `addquote hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 00:58:09 (please read that in your head without a hint of sarcasm) 00:58:09 1008) hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 00:58:30 kmc: it's gonna be great when your future employer finds the #esoteric quote database 00:59:04 `quote kmc 00:59:05 597) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 628) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. \ 699) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN \ 702) has there been any work towards designing programming l 00:59:10 Bike: secretly I steal all my jokes from youtube comments 00:59:14 wow that's pretty hireable 00:59:31 i kind of want to hire him and i'm not even an employer 00:59:46 hey kmc can i hire you 00:59:48 thankfully 702 cut off just before the reference to illicit activities 00:59:51 i pay in tosanini's burnt caramel ice cream 00:59:57 toscanini's 01:00:11 shachaf: i want ice cream now 01:00:13 god dammit 01:00:38 elliott: imo come to Mid-Cambridge, MA and have yourself some burnt caramel ice cream from toscanini's 01:01:21 `addquote hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas oh! he killed hitler oh yeah, there we go thanks Fiora he also killed the guy who killed hitler 01:01:24 1009) hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas oh! he killed hitler oh yeah, there we go thanks Fiora he also killed the guy who killed hitler 01:01:25 eh 01:01:34 (maybe?) 01:01:36 is there anything interesting in cambridge 01:01:39 `delquote 1008 01:01:43 ​*poof* hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 01:01:45 usurped 01:02:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:02:21 01:55:42 Do you prefer burnt caramel ice cream or salted caramel ice cream? 01:02:24 01:55:57 dolio: salted hth 01:02:27 shachaf are you advertising the inferior ice cream to me. 01:02:39 elliott: 01:02:45 17:57 dolio: I was at Toscanini's in Jan 2012 and I had burnt caramel ice cream! 01:02:48 17:58 I was looking forward to it and then disappointed. 01:02:49 17:58 I guess I don't like burnt things very much? :-( 01:02:54 wow. 01:02:56 you wanted to disappoint me. 01:03:01 17:58 It's delicious. 01:03:05 isn't burnt caramel basically... caramel. 01:03:08 the real qustion is who do you trust 01:03:10 dolio or me 01:06:27 Sgeo: You're abusing type classes. Stop it. 01:06:50 I abuse norns, I abuse type classes 01:06:58 caramel is basically burnt sugar 01:07:06 some kind of psychopath but actually just kind of sad to watch 01:07:08 oerjan: hence my confusion. 01:07:09 listen to oerjan 01:07:18 you think you can only burn something once? 01:07:22 burn sugar, it becomes caramel 01:07:29 burn caramel, it becomes burnt caramel 01:07:44 erie and burnt 01:08:51 what happens if you burn burnt caramel 01:08:59 charcoal. 01:09:35 if you freeze burnt caramel you get burnt caramel ice cream hth 01:09:37 `quote charcoal 01:09:38 29) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" 01:17:01 wait jackalopes aren't real? 01:17:12 you lived in washington and didn't know that? 01:17:32 Bike: oh huh. addition is really easy. 01:17:41 Bike: i never knew exactly what they were :'( 01:18:51 `addquote Bike: oh huh. addition is really easy. 01:18:54 1009) Bike: oh huh. addition is really easy. 01:19:37 elliott: well i mean it stands to reason addition would be easy 01:19:51 after all..................... 01:20:01 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 01:20:21 multiplication looks harder though. your theory needs work 01:20:34 Bike: help, this paper makes me want to write it out in Coq instead of doing things I want to do instead 01:20:43 like maybe learn Idris, or read that Operational Semantics Using the Partiality Monad paper. 01:20:56 elliott: imo finish the category theory thing instead? 01:21:30 that's work 01:22:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:25:14 Bike: oh, this bounded range thing is gross. 01:29:36 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:30:12 Bike: there is the third option of doing some kind of dependent lens thing. 01:34:24 thank god for grossness 01:41:42 -!- monqy has joined. 01:51:29 Bike: ok i lied this is the worst 01:51:31 lied by 01:51:33 not lynig 01:51:35 osdfjk 01:51:49 worst is pretty bad 01:52:11 is it worse than #haskell 01:57:34 whats this 01:58:08 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 01:58:17 http://arxiv.org/abs/math/0405454, monqy 01:58:38 ah 01:59:03 its bikes fault 01:59:11 if you link me to anything i have to write it in coq 01:59:15 wow Bike stop being bad 01:59:26 link me to poems? those are going to end up being coq 01:59:36 elliott: http://slbkbs.org/categ.hs 01:59:40 link me to a picture of a cat? it's actually a picture of a rooster 01:59:49 shachaf: fuck you 02:00:07 remember that "paper thing" about that thing the one with division by zero 02:00:19 and the guy who did it was in here 02:00:31 oh man i remember that 02:00:34 link elliott to it 02:00:34 wow this isnt quackery!! im going to kill you for libel monqy 02:00:51 Wait shit, you got the phi dude in here? 02:00:59 or whatever he called his stupid... everything 02:01:06 nullity dude? no this is diff. 02:01:16 oh but i liked nullity :( (no i didn't) 02:01:25 elliott: i figured as much but i was just reminded 02:01:26 it awast nd idnvisision bey zero btw 02:01:37 British computer scientist's new "nullity" idea provokes reaction from mathematicians 02:01:40 good title 02:02:05 british computer scientist discovers 1 weird old trick 02:02:11 wasn't that the thing that was just NaN 02:02:23 we're talking about a different thing noW!! 02:02:39 btw does britain actually exist i think not 02:02:40 kmc: lose 15 epsilons in 3 weeks with this one weird old trick 02:02:56 ugh but tao actually has a post on "epsilon management" 02:03:10 elliott: wasnt it construction of the arithmetic's or something with the goal or something of hating division by zero and you dont want that 02:03:28 so they reinvent the construction of the rationals but make it insane 02:03:32 Bike: well does erdős have one 02:03:34 and use weird terminology 02:03:34 oh that guy 02:03:34 monqy: well it was a bit different 02:03:38 it rejected 0 itself instead 02:03:39 i remember that guy 02:03:45 something about "losing information" 02:03:47 :D 02:03:48 hey remember that "paper thing" with the proof that the reals were countable 02:04:00 was that in here or in another channel 02:04:08 elliott: oh right 02:04:12 it was weird for me when people started making 1 weird old trick jokes because like 02:04:17 i just assume the adverts i see are for my eyes only 02:04:20 everyone else gets different ones 02:04:20 shachaf: I don't think that was here, but it sounds hilarious. 02:04:40 well have u ever seen an uncountable real 02:04:42 with ur own eyes 02:04:47 good point 02:04:53 i assume the exact number of tricks and the various adjectives which apply to them were determined by an iterative optimization procedure 02:06:12 Bike: you need to look through the perspex machine 02:06:23 was that the nullity guy? 02:06:44 «James Anderson is an academic staff "member" in the School of Systems Engineering at the University of Reading, England.» i'm glad i looked this up 02:07:01 Bike: well does erdős have one <-- erdős used the word "epsilon" for children hth 02:07:08 oerjan: that's what i meant hth 02:07:12 oh i remember this 02:07:15 oerjan: erdős invented that? 02:07:18 all my friends do that 02:07:31 everyone i know who's talked about it says it's erdős 02:07:36 erdos invented basically everything euler didn't i thought 02:07:45 erdós 02:07:53 erdøs 02:08:03 erd¤s 02:08:03 "Perspex Machine V: Compilation of C Programs" 02:08:06 €rdös 02:08:11 hey remember that "paper thing" with the proof that the reals were countable <-- those are a dime a dozen, see the good math, bad math blog (the bad section) 02:08:11 I think I thought of a way to get my thing to work, but it's sort of horrible 02:08:18 kmc: how do you make ő with compose 02:08:20 Sgeo: is there a way that isnt horrible 02:08:25 oerjan: I mean a specific one. 02:08:26 Multi_key = o 02:08:26 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:32 Erdővision 02:08:32 A class of NonFunctions, and a separate manually written instance of interesting types 02:08:33 ő_ő 02:08:37 thx 02:08:39 kmc++ 02:08:45 :D 02:08:51 W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. 02:08:57 elliott : "ő" U0151 # LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DOUBLE ACUTE 02:09:02 HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO HELP ME 02:09:03 ＷＡＲＮＩＮＧ 02:09:14 er, with less elliott 02:09:20 Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. 02:09:23 It literally says that 02:09:26 isn't it great that Ｉ doesn't show up at all in my font 02:09:37 also it's... written in poplog... for some reason 02:10:13 vars transarith = true; 02:10:19 `addquote W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. It literally says that 02:10:23 1010) W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. It literally says that 02:10:57 well i mean there's more 02:11:02 if you want to read two paragraphs of nonsense 02:11:18 if I didn't want to read two paragraphs of nonsense, would I be in this channel? 02:11:24 kmc stole my joke 02:11:31 define isstrictlytransreal(num); lvars num; num == nuly or num == pinf or num == ninf enddefine; 02:11:31 imo he has a mind reading device hooked up to my brain 02:11:56 nulynulynulynuly 02:11:59 i actually am not sure what language this is? i thought it was prolog but i guessnot 02:12:09 its error routine is called "mishap" 02:12:11 hahan uly 02:12:17 it's the elder tongue 02:12:32 haha 02:12:39 Return a transreal number given the numerator and denominator. Irrational numbers conventionally have denominator d = 1. 02:12:44 v. british 02:12:52 fatal error function is "cock-up" 02:13:53 I really love that "cock-up" is considered a normal and non-vulgar british phrase 02:14:04 so you get BBC headlines like "MoD helicopter fiasco a 'gold standard cock-up'" 02:14:09 Bike: is this pseudocode or 02:14:17 Bike: not that it makes a difference.... 02:14:40 Real arithmetic obeys the trichotomy axiom: a number can be greater than, equal to, or less than zero. But transreal arithmetic obeys the quadrachotomy axiom: a number can be nullity or else it can be greater than, equal to, or less than zero. 02:14:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cockup 02:14:59 imo tetrachotomy sounds cooler 02:15:03 monqy: it's formatted like real code and mentions poplog which has like nine languages in it? 02:15:22 I had to go for a quadrachotomy once 02:15:22 kmc: haha wow 02:15:33 hey it has infix precedence things 02:15:34 poplog isn't prolog it's poplog(??????????????????????????????????????) 02:15:36 maybe it's haskell! 02:16:04 i dunno it doesn't look like ML either 02:16:06 Bike: prolog has that too 02:16:14 oh it's in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POP-11 02:16:21 Poplog is a reflective, incrementally compiled software development environment for the programming languages POP-11, Common Lisp, Prolog, and Standard ML, originally created in the UK for teaching and research in artificial intelligence at the University of Sussex. 02:16:39 what 02:16:41 define 7 ##= (num1, num2); 02:16:54 you got some kinda problem with COWSEL kmc 02:17:01 thanks now i know what 7 means 02:17:35 this whole long thing of code is literally just to add 0/0 and 1/0 and -1/0 i hate everything 02:18:04 is there anything special about pop-11 or is it just this crazy guy being crazy 02:18:14 Consider the untyped λ-calculus with a countably infinite set of 02:18:14 constants c: 02:18:14 t ::= c | x | λx.t | t1 t2 02:18:14 Closed terms written in this language can compute to a value (a 02:18:14 constant c or a closure λx.tρ), but they can also go wrong (crash) 02:18:14 Bike why are you reading things of code 02:18:16 or fail to terminate. 02:18:28 shachaf: because i'm sure as fuck not gonna read his papers 02:18:29 this paper is stretching my suspension of disbelief a bit with the notion that these programs can crash. 02:18:43 elliott: well, constants 02:18:52 elliott: what happens if i do "4 5" huh!! 02:18:55 monqy: what's wrong with constants???????????????? 02:18:56 that's right CRASH 02:18:59 Bike: whats 4, whats 5 02:19:00 cf bike 02:19:02 monqy: it never says they're crashy!! 02:19:03 constants 02:19:06 oh 02:19:07 elliott: -roll- 02:19:10 i guess applying them makes sense as a crash 02:19:16 the great thing about constants is that there are so many of them to choose from 02:19:18 i would have assumed 4 5 is just `inert' 02:19:23 you treat them as `primitives' or w/e 02:19:24 well 02:19:27 that's what a crash is 02:19:29 Imo Its Ambiguous™ 02:19:39 ok wait back up 02:19:40 crashing is when you get stuck 02:19:45 since when do you call a lambda abstraction a "closure" 02:19:47 imo its not a crash to do something like that...... because you dont say the program is Wrong necessarily 02:19:49 Thank You Operational Semantics 02:19:54 > 4 5 02:19:58 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 02:19:59 imo you're stuck 02:20:00 and also suck 02:20:03 thanks haskell 02:20:14 FURTHERMORE: dumb; bad 02:20:17 youre stuck when you cant make a transition 02:20:21 > 4 5 02:20:23 4 02:20:26 elliott: crush... Qed. 02:20:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:20:56 what style of operatiaonal semantics is this 02:21:17 if it's with a `partiality monad` it's probably big step? 02:21:26 It might be better to separate type checking from from number set membership. For example, 2 is a member of the real, transreal, complex, and transcomplex numbers; but it has builtin type integer and polymorphically real. A purist would keep the builtin real and complex types distinct, but many languages promote real to complex. Types are a 02:21:31 language issue and need to be resolved for each individual language. 02:21:57 um 02:22:11 im so confused 02:23:03 monqy: Operational Semantics Using the Partiality Monad 02:23:07 by Nils Anders Danielsson 02:23:15 imo Bike should do a writeup on the wiki 02:23:18 no im confused about bike's thing 02:23:27 no that was 02:23:31 answering your QUESTIOn gOSH! 02:23:56 Transrithmetical 02:24:20 looks like this is in AGDA ~uh oh~ 02:24:21 i need to look up who published this shithead though 02:24:55 -!- augur has joined. 02:25:20 "Proceedings of SPIE offer access to the latest innovations in research and technology and are among the most cited references in patent literature." 02:25:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:26:19 monqy: Nils Anders Danielsson is An Agda Guye 02:26:27 is that a legit conf or one of those drug fronts that'll accept just about anything even scigen 02:26:30 i think he wrote the agda stdlib 02:26:30 even scigen 02:26:44 SCIE seems sorta legit 02:26:54 except that he was presenting this at a fucking vision conference 02:26:57 monqy: how many drug fronts have you published in 02:27:03 did you get many drugs 02:27:22 and some AI thing 02:27:23 none yet! 02:27:44 not ready for the drugs yet 02:28:06 just say Nothing (programmer joke :-)) 02:28:49 cute, this defines a big step relation for terminating computations, a relation for nonterminating computations, and a relation for crashing computations 02:29:39 HIRD Elliott: hi 02:29:40 only to tear down the relations :-O 02:29:41 the only big step ive ever seen either only defines semantics for terminating stuff or it's defined coinductively.... 02:30:00 BEN-KIKI Shachaf: what 02:30:28 was elliott called ehird because he was super into HIRD 02:30:41 HIRD Elliott: Are you going to do the category thing? 02:30:51 are you going to continue addressing me as HIRD Elliott 02:31:02 Should I stop? 02:31:14 it seems moderately pointless 02:31:35 So's this channel? 02:35:14 I decided to leave the text about my brainfuck bot in place 02:35:23 I tweaked it to only say "brainfuck" once, and in quotes 02:35:55 I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on the other side, in parenthesis, capital letters, quotated, read the following words: 02:35:59 a language related to P'' called "brain fuck" 02:36:48 (“KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?”) 02:37:32 quotated 02:37:55 Bike haven't you heard Alice's Restaurant 02:38:02 nope 02:38:31 imo go listen?? 02:38:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjKF7aQthcQ 02:38:49 kmc can confirm that imo go listen 02:39:46 23 minute song 02:39:49 this can't possibly be bad 02:39:54 "North Korea seen moving missile after it declares it has given approval for a nuclear attack on the United States" 02:40:04 good idea north korea 02:40:06 tell me more 02:40:29 this song has guitar so shachaf probably hates it 02:40:33 north korean rockets not working correctly, mysterious large package of "cake" arrives addressed toseoul 02:43:33 shachaf: apparently this is a decades-later re-recording of the original from a decades-later re-recording of the album it originally appeared on, and now I'm sitting here trying to figure out why anyone would bother doing such a thing 02:43:40 thank you for the bewilderment. 02:44:00 elliott: well have you heard the song 02:44:09 i bet MicheleZ5 is a spam account 02:44:21 shachaf: i have not 02:44:25 also HugoMDZ 02:44:56 haha the singer endorsed ron paul 02:45:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:45:32 well everyone is endorsing ron paul these days. even fish 02:45:33 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:47:26 elliott: north korea will make such a nice radioactive glass desert, don't you think 02:47:43 :( 02:49:36 does un endorse ron paul? 02:49:52 the UN endorses ron paul yes 02:50:36 sorry: Kim Jong-un 02:50:48 So's this channel? <-- HEY WE HAVE STRICT RULES ABOUT WHAT KIND OF POINTLESS STUFF IS ALLOWED HERE, SIR 02:51:02 oerjan: What are the rules? 02:51:34 juche: a libertarian perspective 02:52:04 bike XD 02:52:38 shachaf: I'M SORRY, THAT POINTLESS QUESTION IS FORBIDDEN BY THE RULES 02:52:51 Personally Im a fan of poin-free programming 02:53:22 so I don't think you should restrict the discussion to only pointful languages 02:58:21 indeed, pointless languages are among the things allowed to discuss here 02:58:34 shocking, i know 03:01:37 oerjan: (\xs -> What are the xs?) rules 03:02:09 one thing that bugs me is how often we have to name intermediate values just so we can reuse them, 03:03:11 doesthiswork: yeah that's why they added \case to recent ghc haskell 03:03:25 (i think that was the finally decided syntax?) 03:04:36 shachaf: YOUR QUESTION IS BETA-EQUIVALENT TO A FORBIDDEN QUESTION 03:05:39 (\w -> What are the w?) rules 03:16:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:18:44 the heck is /case 03:18:48 \case rather 03:19:49 \case pats -> \v -> case v of pats for fresh v 03:19:52 er 03:19:58 that first -> is a big ol ==> desugaring arrow 03:20:16 ==========>>>>>>> 03:21:36 oh so you can do like \case 0 -> 1; n -> n * fact (n-1) or whatever 03:21:52 yes 03:22:03 wow I feel like I need a fun fact about this feature. 03:22:05 how's about it shachaf. 03:22:46 ~_~ 03:23:29 fun fact 0 = 1 03:23:53 uh shachaf. 03:23:55 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 03:24:05 that doesn't use the feature. 03:24:07 Bike: it's particularly useful for chaining with >>= 03:24:11 it's not even haskell in fact. 03:24:20 Bike: it's just a fun fact hth 03:24:25 It's not but i expect shahaf to innovate through that,elliott. 03:24:32 He's an innovator. It's what he does. He innovates. 03:24:45 tear down walls 03:24:46 wait omg 03:24:48 i said in fact 03:24:49 build bigger, stronger walls 03:24:51 go me for making a joke by mistake 03:24:55 elliott. 03:24:59 no. 03:25:10 elliott: i saw that but it was bad so i didn't comment 03:25:13 go you for commenting 03:26:42 main = getArgs >>= (\case [fname] -> readFile fname; [] -> getContents) >>= putStr 03:27:17 although the parentheses are a bit naff 03:27:23 are you trying to be british 03:27:41 getArgs >>= $ \case [fname] ... $ >>= putStr i'm sure this will work. 03:27:45 i thought "ugly" first, but that's not quite it 03:27:49 Bike: nope 03:27:57 D:!!! 03:30:41 oerjan: Sadly, not quite cat. 03:30:46 :) 03:31:35 main = do getArgs >>= \case [fname] -> readFile fname; [] -> getContents 03:31:42 >>= putStr 03:31:52 * oerjan whistles innocently 03:32:18 main = do do do getArgs >>= ... 03:32:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVUyyHYkBHk 03:32:55 shachaf: it was just to get rid of the parentheses 03:33:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:33:38 main = don't 03:34:07 main = getArgs >>= f >>= putStr where f [x] = readFile x;f [] = getContents 03:34:08 :) 03:34:50 now that's just crazy talk 03:34:56 pikhq: um the whole point here is to use \case to avoid making up names for more things than necessary 03:35:05 Bah. 03:35:14 an Important Readability Extension 03:35:48 Readability Of Functional Languages 03:35:59 lmao 03:36:06 * pikhq summons Pointfree Man 03:37:06 There should be a conference on esolang research 03:37:11 it can be called ROFL 03:37:50 Research on fringe languages 03:38:29 it can be a working group at http://sigbovik.org/ 03:39:09 does esolang have a sigbovik affiliation; if not why not 03:39:24 http://sigbovik.org/2013/images/mainlogo.png haha yes. 03:39:49 nice 03:39:50 AND a mustard watch reference 03:39:56 Fiora: http://sigbovik.org/2013/images/graph13.png 03:40:05 what is mustard watches 03:40:24 http://iml.univ-mrs.fr/~girard/mustard/page1.html 03:40:27 something that one linear logic guy came up with 03:40:42 it's a pretty obscure satire about nonclassical logics 03:40:52 more importantly, it involves http://sigbovik.org/2013/images/graph7.png 03:41:15 haha 03:41:25 not sure i get the satire but I appreciate the surrealism 03:42:00 basically people saying "what if we had a logic that let you do everything classical did PLUS GAVE YOU MUSTARD" i think 03:42:08 ok 03:42:12 iunno i'm shit at logic 03:42:14 put a bird on it 03:43:14 hm the business school is hilariously buzzwordy is that normal 03:43:23 whose business school 03:43:42 None of your business school 03:43:42 none of your business school hth 03:43:43 "CB graduates lead insightfully by skillfully applying core business competencies, employing a global perspective, and embracing diversity" 03:43:48 Jafet........................ 03:43:54 Jafet++ 03:43:56 I stole his mind reader. 03:44:10 Bike: but do they leverage things 03:44:15 According to the logs Jafet posted it first. :-( 03:44:24 my irc client begs to differ 03:44:33 shachaf: Only from the subjective point of view of the logger. 03:44:40 hm i'm seeing driving butnot leveraging 03:44:51 i saw "leverage" used as a transitive verb to refer to actually physically using a lever on an object 03:44:57 that was a weird full circle moment 03:45:01 begs to differ? is she even in version control? 03:45:12 * ion fullcircles kmc 03:45:25 \circ 03:46:02 also the business school's blurb is about how they have wifi everywhere and nice dorms or whatever, where all the other ones maybe mention their new labs 03:47:27 i think i've missed some context 03:47:43 dude they have an entrepeneurship program. 03:47:50 you can major in being an entrepeneur 03:49:51 -!- augur has joined. 03:50:15 everyone has that 03:50:58 where do you think all the "idea people" just looking for a "technical co-founder" come from 03:51:23 i thought they all dropped out of college to found dogbook. 03:53:25 is that... facebook for dogs 03:53:32 yes 03:53:48 not as good as my 'facebook for kitchen appliances' idea 03:53:51 if you have a better go-to stereotypical bullshit startup i'd be happy to hear it 03:54:01 dude that's like, twenty syllables! i ain't got time for that shit. 03:54:28 well these days it's all about gamifyinfg the mobile, social, local apps 03:55:14 foursquare + halo 04:01:47 apparently SCVNGR has more or less shut down and LevelUp is in dire straits 04:02:36 maybe I shouldn't take joy in the failings of others, but their founder is a consummate douchenozzle 04:03:24 howso 04:03:35 http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/02/seth-priebatsch-the-ayn-rand-loving-feet-baring-efficiency-obsessed-savant-behind-scvngr/ http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/business/19entre.html?pagewanted=all 04:03:57 hm i'm just gonna stop at that url 04:03:59 Bike: I like "that one linear logic guy" 04:04:11 elliott: you knew who i meant didn't you 04:04:13 i like the part in the first article where he brags about stealing services from MIT and then in the same breath says that MIT students are lazy fatasses 04:04:16 well, like, he sort of invented it 04:04:21 exactly 04:04:36 on the other hand there is apparently a person named Guy who does linear logic so searching "linear logic guy" doesn't really work 04:04:41 hahaha 04:06:59 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:08:14 wow, coinduction is a fucking pain to work with. 04:09:02 what are you useing it for? 04:10:03 -!- Bike has joined. 04:14:06 wb Bike 04:14:13 -!- elliott_ has joined. 04:15:55 i am here and ready to talk about french logicians 04:16:40 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:17:05 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 04:21:12 what are you useing it for? 04:21:21 doesthiswork: some play-around lambda calculus things in coq. 04:21:26 i was trying to implement the things in this paper. 04:21:50 oh hey elliott that reals paper, i got linked it because somebody thought it might be useful for lambda calculus things 04:21:54 is that the case? 04:23:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFRXks2X68#t=2m kmc: hi i'm bashar al-assad and welcome to jackass 04:23:30 Bike: um. I'm not sure. 04:23:37 for like, implementing the computable reals in LC I guess? 04:23:47 maybe if you implemented it in coq....... 04:23:51 but yeah something like that 04:23:54 i have no idea about these things 04:25:00 anyway proving equalities about coninductive things is, like, awful. 04:25:46 elliott: which reminds me of that comment i saw about copatterns in r/haskell. i wonder what those are. 04:25:55 Bike: cool now I know the arabic for "HOLY FUCK GUYS DID YOU SEE THAT" 04:26:17 kmc: if i've learned anything from these videos it's that if you shout ALLAHU AKBAR constantly you're basically speakingn arabic 04:26:21 yes 04:26:26 oerjan: those are simple to explain 04:26:33 they do say that a lot 04:26:40 supposedly they make codata more intuitive or something 04:26:41 particularly in war type situations 04:26:43 oerjan: imagine codata Stream a = Cons { head :: a, tail :: Stream a } 04:26:45 then 04:26:48 fibs :: Stream Nat 04:26:52 head fibs = 0 04:26:54 head (tail fibs) = 1 04:27:02 tail (tail fibs) = zipWith (+) ...etc... 04:27:08 defines fibs 04:27:19 aha 04:27:23 that's kinda weird but i like it 04:27:25 just defining fibs in terms of how it's destructed 04:27:48 and you can write it as, e.g. codata Stream a = head a & tail (Stream a) 04:27:52 to show how it's sort of dual to | 04:27:55 (& credit to ski) 04:28:13 oerjan: and then e.g. 04:28:19 map :: (a -> b) -> Stream a -> Stream b 04:28:29 i don't totally get it though 04:28:33 head (map f (Cons x xs)) = x 04:28:36 the guy can set a tank on fire with some small hand-thrown weapon? 04:28:37 http://24.media.tumblr.com/0a77e448bef7a06132fd72c1810c82bf/tumblr_mkmu7277Wq1sn19ono1_500.jpg 04:28:41 and then the guys in the tank don't get out or anything? 04:28:43 kmc: he put it in the barrel 04:28:45 tail (map f (Cons x xs)) = map f xs 04:28:50 uh, dunno how that looks with & though 04:28:55 elliott: *= f x surely 04:28:56 and according to the comments (for god's sake don't read the comments) it might have been disabled by an RPG first 04:28:58 er yes 04:28:59 oh snap 04:29:18 generally speaking i don't think escaping from a burning tank is easy though 04:29:26 head (map f (head x & tail _)) = f x; tail (map f (head _ & tail xs)) = map f xs or something 04:29:32 oh yeah I see now holy shit 04:29:35 you could use view patterns >:) 04:29:41 basically yeah, holy shit. 04:29:42 head (map f (head -> x)) = f x 04:29:49 tail (map f (tail -> xs)) = map f xs 04:29:57 i've seen a few videos of tanks going up like that and it's always a trip 04:30:21 fire literally pouring out 04:32:15 i guess there's a previous attempt at 1:20 or so 04:32:16 elliott: thanks 04:32:51 oerjan: np. there's probably some much better / more complete write-up elsewhere, I just picked up the basic idea from IRC 04:33:19 btw I like these two simultaneous conversations 04:33:39 fire literally pouring out of the coinduction 04:33:42 blowing up copatterns 04:34:17 kmc: "As you've likely gathered, Priebatsch is 22 years old." I like how this article gets as close as possible to saying he's an asshole without actually doing so 04:34:29 haha nice 04:34:46 "I found out that basically the real world was essentially the same game as Civilization [an old computer game], just with slightly better graphics, maybe, and slightly slower." 04:34:49 haha holy shit 04:35:10 -!- Bike has set topic: [an old computer game] | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 04:35:34 I wonder if there's some kind of reason the world looks like Civilisation? o Sid Meier, what prescience you must have had to invent something that the world would later imitate 04:35:51 elliott: I think it's a nice contrast about what young men do to seek glory under different circumstances 04:37:07 I think the first time the grenade doesn't make it all the way down the barrel and so bits of grenade just come shooting out? 04:37:11 "Priebatsch, like an undergrad reading Marx for the first time, started to look at everything through this new worldview." 04:37:19 this article writer totally hates the guy 04:37:24 i have some Marx open in a tab 04:37:41 elliott: probably 04:37:51 which marx 04:37:56 karl 04:38:07 no i mean like... which thing of his. 04:38:08 Theories of Surplus Value 04:38:19 Bike: i think i might have had a dream about you being a bicycle. not sure though 04:38:30 it was linked from something that was linked from something that... you know how it goes 04:38:31 uh what else would i be 04:38:35 i haven't read any Marx to date 04:38:37 like a unicycle or some shit? come on bro. 04:38:46 I think i read the communist manifesto once 04:38:51 well this might be a little strange 04:38:55 but my working hypothesis is that you are a person. 04:38:57 paid enough attention to be amused at how much of it was complaints about communists 04:39:01 heh 04:39:33 elliott: could you write this hypothesis out for me in coq 04:41:09 i don't think marxism is very respectable among modern economists 04:41:17 but maybe it's important in a historical and cultural sense 04:41:45 it's certainly nowhere near mainstream, even leftist economists go for something that's at best built off of it 04:42:08 i mean it's like... old. 04:42:24 yeah 04:43:47 marx more like uh 04:43:49 something ending with arx 04:43:58 fartx 04:44:05 yes. 04:44:55 let's see who's vaguely leftist 04:45:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Myrdal is cool and he wrote about race in the US for some reason 04:45:34 or you could just read graeber and be dumb maybe i dunno 04:46:07 kmc: http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/ you might enjoy this 04:46:17 haha yes i do 04:46:37 god friedman 04:47:31 "It would be easy to forget that the problem even exists, when our headlines are constantly splashed with the violence in Fiji, the authoritarian crackdown in Somalia and the still-unstable democratic transition in Mexico." nailed it 04:47:45 Ugh, I seem to be sick or something again. 04:47:49 It's been happening every month. 04:48:18 Bike: um it's actually "It would be easy to forget that the problem even exists, when our headlines are constantly splashed with the violence in Greece, the authoritarian crackdown in Comoros and the still-unstable democratic transition in Ghana." 04:48:34 "When I visited Singapore in 2000, Mbantu, the cabbie who drove me from the airport," i think this adds to the experience really 04:48:41 I have actually never heard of Comoros. 04:48:45 me too 04:49:08 oh it's one of those island states in the indian ocean 04:49:27 i used to be able to name all the countries of the world 04:49:42 animaniacs? 04:49:43 kmc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDtdQ8bTvRc with or without this? 04:49:49 without 04:50:00 (bike and I are literally the same person I swear) 04:50:27 http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/world 04:50:50 hm comoros has a territory dispute with frane 04:50:52 france 04:51:38 "The Comoros is the only state to be a member of all of the following: the African Union, Francophonie, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, Arab League... and the Indian Ocean Commission" 04:51:43 and yes apparently it's The Comoros 04:51:54 comoropodes 04:52:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_map_export_2009_Comoros.jpeg 04:53:50 for... breaking up? like scrap? 04:53:53 It's been happening every month. <-- you're actually female hth 04:54:05 oerjan: I considered it. 04:54:29 Bike: don't a lot of poorer nations get dumped with the job of shipbreaking nowadays? 04:54:54 i have no idea, i mean, it makes sense but i've never heard of it 04:55:04 in fact i've never even heard of "shipbreaking" 04:55:49 "Today, most ship breaking yards are in developing countries, with the largest yards at Gadani in Pakistan, Alang in India, Chittagong in Bangladesh and Aliağa in Turkey. This is due to lower labor costs and less stringent environmental regulations dealing with the disposal of lead paint and other toxic substances. " 04:56:37 christ i thought pakistan was landlocked fuck me 04:57:28 it's like electronics recycling 04:57:40 it's messy and go away but also profitable? 04:57:49 (translation: a bunch of underpaid third world workers poisoning themselves to take apart your iphones) 04:58:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agbogbloshie.JPG 04:58:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agbogbloshie 04:58:48 Oh, wasn't that in some magazine? 04:59:02 should i go to the comoros 04:59:03 sounds like fun 04:59:06 ps what's comoros like 04:59:13 shipbreaky 04:59:36 man I love ships. that break. 04:59:36 Due to its harsh living conditions and rampant crime, the area is nicknamed "Sodom and Gomorrah". 04:59:40 awww ye 05:00:01 Yaaaay, people getting paid cents each day to take apart crap that's probably worth more than they'll make this year. 05:00:04 Sigh. 05:00:05 Fuck the world. 05:00:58 we should tweet about it 05:09:46 oerjan: why are we still awake 05:10:51 @localtime oerjan 05:10:52 Local time for oerjan is Thu Apr 4 07:10:51 2013 05:10:56 @time elliott 05:10:58 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 4 06:10:57 2013 05:11:16 Because you slept all night and woke up 20 minutes ago? 05:11:17 It's early in the morning! Time to get out and plow! 05:13:12 -!- btiffin has joined. 05:16:00 COBOL paragraph, compiles links and go's, will soon be part of frogSort in cbrain: 05:16:02 forkyourself. 05:16:18 ....call "fork" returning opinion end-call 05:16:30 ....if respect is zero then 05:17:01 ........subtract 1 from shared-value 05:17:15 ........if not fair then go forkyourself. 05:17:16 . 05:17:37 so you didn't answer my question before 05:17:44 does cobol have automatic memory management or what 05:17:54 Oh, I thought you were still taunting. ;-) 05:18:06 no i'm actually curious. 05:18:18 OpenCOBOL does, with BASED. Normal WORKING-STORAGE section is not, it's fixed. 05:18:43 Banks like fixed memory 05:18:44 based, is that like a stack or 05:18:59 No, more malloc and free 05:19:08 oh boy i love malloc 05:19:10 But ANY LENGTH is still in draft 05:19:31 so var-1 PIC X(65535) BASED. 05:19:32 we may be approaching Peak COBOL 05:19:44 takes up no storage, but you need to set a max. 05:20:43 Linkage section allows for externals to do the management 05:22:51 kmc: I have a lot of fun with OpenCOBOL. COBOL in C space, which for all intensive purposes is the internet, is a lot of fun. (Intents and, yeah, yeah, this is intense) ;-) 05:26:05 so why should i use cobol rather than let's say snobol, what does cobol bring to the soda and cold pizza covered table 05:27:29 Umm, use them both. I'm writing up a sample linking Unicon. 05:28:14 ok like why add cobol to my repertoire of mad coding music then. i just, it's hard for me to register that somebody could /enjoy/ cobol, it's the stereotypical boring... uh... thing. 05:29:22 There is a vast pile of custom, closed COBOL. All the talk is rewrites and modernization. Nah, let them keep COBOL and attach (directly embedding) all the modern they want. 05:29:53 well i can appreciate that, but you said you didn't do this for business, you just like openCOBOL? 05:30:18 Yep. COBOL reads the beauty 05:30:19 so like, presumably you're writing new code that's mostly "standalone", not maintaining an existing system? 05:30:40 I'm actually just the fan boy writing prototypes and documentation. 05:31:24 oooooh 05:31:29 But most of the paid work would come from existent source code (which, may not read beautifully of course) 05:32:08 Last time I got paid to sling COBOL was umm, 83, 4? 05:40:21 ...someone here is older than me? 05:41:01 elliott: THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING 05:41:50 -!- carado has joined. 05:43:40 Nearing 50, this summer. Fan of bf, (and as old guy, I'm sad about Urban's choice of name. I can't talk to my mom about bf, without calling it bffff), but now with pbrain, I can reference pbrain and well, yay, cbrain. 05:44:10 brainmomi'mgay 05:44:18 :-) 05:44:59 * Fiora feels slightly less old 05:45:27 don't tell me Fiora is also older than me. 05:46:24 Fiora is 2013 years old hth 05:46:34 oh ok 05:46:41 23 -_- 05:46:50 close enough 05:47:04 I grew up as a commercial fisherman, so cuss'es are a thing of beauty. My old man could rhyme off 30 in a row when nets got tangled Sweet. But, not in front of the mom. ;-) 05:47:28 she didn't fish? 05:48:25 She came out a few times, but ended up seasick just about every run. 05:50:42 Anyone ever hear about micromorts? 05:50:58 the little death? 05:51:08 Bike: that's fear 05:51:16 The chance per million of kakking doing a particular thing? 05:51:32 curiously, "mort" is a norwegian word for baby fish 05:51:39 Like 1 million people got drunk yesterday, 70 didn't make it. 70 micromorts 05:51:39 I thought it was an orgasm. 05:51:44 so i wasn't quite sure whether you had changed the subject 05:51:49 Bike: fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration 05:51:51 I don't know "kakking" either. 05:51:59 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:52:05 Writing code at a desk is sub-one micromort. 05:52:27 coppro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_petite_mort Inject some class into your vocabulary! 05:52:32 By class I mean sex jokes 05:52:43 french sex jokes are way classy 05:53:23 Fishing is 1600 ish, I get to go around and yell, Fished commercially, and LIVED. ;-) Now, with COBOL, no yelling. Just Dilbert nerd dances. 05:53:32 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:54:33 Bike: sorry, kakking is dropping dead, on the spot. 05:54:40 nice! 05:58:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:59:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:59:28 i'm pretty sure i've managed to mention that both my grandfathers were fishermen. afaik neither died of it. 05:59:42 although i had an uncle who drowned. 05:59:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 05:59:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:00:30 o_O 06:00:58 i don't think he was commercial fisherman though. 06:01:09 I traded a shift to go ashore on a night that sank our boat and drowned my dad's friends. 06:01:50 Fished commercially, and LIVED. 06:05:16 then wrote sad code and died a little inside, and LIVED. 06:06:25 :/ 06:08:17 Bike, not sure how long I'll hang out in esoland, but if you get to know me, I'm a fan of the lame. Lame is just grand. :-) Lamer the better. 06:08:34 What did Batman say to Robin, JUST before they got in the car? 06:08:51 Robin, get in the car. 06:08:53 do you mean like, dorky? because "lame" just makes me think of physical injuries, especially in the context of barely not drowning 06:09:34 Yeah, dorky, kinda. Lame as in "that's just lame" 06:09:42 groaner puns 06:10:03 Yes. Lamest rules. 06:11:01 Why do sea gulls fly over seas? If they flew over bays, they'd be bagels. 06:22:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:25:54 -!- fftw has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:34:48 -!- fftw has joined. 07:14:48 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:31:41 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:36:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:36:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:40:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:42:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 07:59:51 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:00:58 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:30:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:45:33 -!- btiffin has left. 08:47:24 -!- nooga has joined. 09:08:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:14:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:17:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:20:34 -!- heroux has joined. 09:27:33 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:27:45 -!- carado has joined. 09:44:15 -!- nooga has joined. 10:00:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:33:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:36:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:36:27 -!- monqy has joined. 10:38:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:46:01 `slist 10:46:06 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 10:55:16 Sgeo, you're a bit slow 10:55:29 I thought that was hours ago 10:55:32 I was a bit asleep 10:56:00 Isn't there a timestamp for the update you could also post 11:03:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:09:34 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:11:41 Also, last night I think the Chinese Graphics Card problem came back 11:11:50 And then I had a bunch of nightmares 11:11:56 So I may be getting confused 11:12:31 hmm 11:12:49 I spent all night (after I woke up) working on my javascript database 11:13:03 well, it's currently written in Perl, I'm planning to translate the read end of it into JS once it's working 11:13:14 implementing databases is fun, really 11:13:27 So fun edwardk did it twice 11:13:41 I invented a new user interface/API for them which is more limited than SQL, but also much easier to use in the situations where it works 11:14:49 basically you just say which fields of which tables you care about, and it works out an appropriate sequence of joins, or complains and asks for more precision if there's more than one plausible way to do it 11:14:58 and you can disambiguate 11:15:09 the main limitation is that so far it doesn't handle many-to-many relationships 11:16:46 (it doesn't produce the wrong answer, it just refuses to try) 11:24:14 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 11:24:50 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Client Quit). 11:30:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:32:16 I have "?"s in the names of about one quarter of my course participants in this assignment grading table, due to not being able to get the list of registered people (it's in The System somewhere, and I don't have the privileges for that), and having to decipher them out of their handwritten answers. 11:32:46 At least in the case of Finnish name there's usually enough context; but some of these others I really can't guess. 11:33:06 -!- nooga has joined. 11:41:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:42:30 fizzie: we mostly got round the problem at this university by giving everyone an arbitrary number, and asking them to use them on submissions 11:42:41 (and, often, to leave their actual name off, so that they can be marked pseudo-anonymously) 11:43:02 it's harder to screw up a 7-digit number so badly that it can't be read, than a name 11:43:11 also, 11:43:36 people often put in extra effort to write it legibly because they know they won't get any marks if it's wrong because nobody will be able to figure out whose submission it is 11:43:39 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:47:00 ais523_: We use the student number too, and there's an official rule of never publishing a list with both names and student numbers on them. 11:47:20 Which is sometimes followed and sometimes not 11:47:23 I'm not sure if we have that rule or not 11:47:29 people try to avoid it, but sometimes it's unavoidable 11:47:45 Deewiant: Sometimes it's a list of student numbers only, but sorted according to name. 11:47:54 :-D 11:47:58 (That's the best, since you kind of have to do a linear search for your number.) 11:48:40 I've figured out a couple of student numbers by taking the intersection of exam grade lists out of exams I've known the person to attend. 11:49:37 oh, in my case I have a list of student number/name correspondences, because I need it for admin tasks (like working out who isn't submitting exercises), but I'm meant to keep it secret 11:49:58 but there are interfaces via which you can give a name and get a number back, or vice versa, scattered around the computer system 11:50:08 with various degrees of access control 11:50:11 I used to get that list too, but just emailed by a guy with the right sort of access to The System. 11:50:24 yeah, same here, emailed by someone with higher access 11:50:38 one of my favourite boundaries in the system is that you used to be able to email an ID number 11:50:46 which isn't obviously exploitable, but is interesting 11:50:51 I'm not sure if that still works 11:50:54 Heh, we had that too. 11:51:39 Also, one of the earlier The Systems had a fault where you could type an ID number in the "people search" field, and it'd return details of the corresponding person, even if it doesn't show the ID number field in the results. 11:51:46 (That one was obviously exploitable.) 11:52:50 Well, now. Here's one submission with no name or student number at all. 11:54:10 And the one right next to it is missing the third digit of the six-digit ID (confirmed by matching with name). This is some sort of an unlucky round. 11:57:24 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:57:24 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 11:57:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 12:03:15 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:05:59 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:15:51 Heh, that's funny. If you type the word "attach" in an email in Thunderbird, it'll put up a notice banner reminding you that you might possibly have wanted to attach a file or something. 12:16:21 I've sent my own share of "please see attached file" + "whoops, I mean, *here's* the file" email pairs, so I suppose that's a good idea. 12:16:24 GMail does that as well 12:16:49 "Sending of message failed. The Kerberos/GSSAPI ticket was not accepted by the SMTP server mail.aalto.fi. Please check that you are logged in to the Kerberos/GSSAPI realm." 12:16:52 Well, that's less good. 12:17:06 Why am I thinking of toastie makers 12:17:12 Or possibly waffle irons 12:17:21 Something about my dreams last night... 12:17:40 fizzie: And you can view/edit the list of keywords causing that banner in Preferences/Options -> Composition -> General -> Keywords 12:18:03 Anyway, we've got a new router, so I may brb 12:21:07 Taneb: turn the old router into a toaster! 12:21:32 ThatOtherPerson, that would mean we'd have a really crappy toaster 12:22:32 But it would then run NetBSD! 12:22:38 Taneb: Your dream was a sign! You must do it! 12:22:39 Many toasters do. 12:23:20 But my dream also had me lose my shoes! 12:23:31 And look for them on the balcony of my school's main hall! 12:23:58 My school's main hall doesn't have a balcony! 12:24:03 Any, now I must go 12:24:19 My home planet needs me 12:28:06 Taneb: you must build a balcony for your school so that you can look for your shoes on it when you lose them! 12:29:16 "2/3 = 0.75" (random quote from one of the submissions). 12:29:29 It's correct up until the 2/3, and the "= 0.75" is the very last thing in it. 12:29:44 :/ 12:30:03 It's the kind of thing that can happen. 12:33:36 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:34:06 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 12:56:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:57:09 -!- boily has joined. 12:57:57 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:58:05 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:58:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:59:17 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:03:39 oh, bleh, wiki spam again 13:03:45 despite being fast to clean up, it's still annoying to have to do so 13:04:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:06:21 I should reboot my bot. 13:06:45 I should rebot my boot. 13:06:45 elliott: "Warning: This filter was automatically disabled as a safety measure. It reached the limit of matching more than 5.00% of actions." 13:08:14 -!- ogrom has joined. 13:09:19 oklofok: do you have other games like your counting dots thingy? 13:10:38 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:11:52 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:14:56 anyway, basically MediaWiki decided that there were sufficient amounts of spam being caught by the filter, that it should disable the filter because it must be interfering with real editors by mistake 13:15:34 also, it's now impossible to create a page on Esolang with a
tag and no newlines; there's no penalty for trying, it's just that the spambots don't seem to understand newlines 13:15:44 so this should shut them down altogether until someone changes their framework 13:25:20 what if a spambotter spies on this channel? 13:29:53 what if a spambot spies on this channel? 13:34:28 hmm... there's a flurry of idlers here. maybe they're all bots? 13:36:37 boily: the details of what exactly you aren't allowed to do are public 13:36:47 I could hide them, but if I did, I wouldn't tell the channel about them 13:36:58 and it's a really easy restriction to figure out by experiment 13:38:07 I am a bot 13:38:22 Not a spambot though. That is beneath my talents. 13:40:24 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:43:58 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 13:46:44 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:47:13 -!- carado has joined. 13:52:30 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 14:05:27 -!- fizzie has joined. 14:11:28 Every time there are network problems, there's the chance for some sort of an amazing support experience from the ISP. 14:11:46 This time the problem reporting form just said "this service is temporarily out of order, try again later". 14:12:28 They have an IM-over-the-browser kind of customer contact thing, but that one does not accept fault reports. 14:12:53 Would've'd to SPEAK with ANOTHER HUMAN. How unhygienic. 14:13:00 (Fortunately, it fixed itself.) 14:15:49 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:16:03 -!- fungot has joined. 14:17:52 fungot: Are YOU responsible for the wikispam? 14:17:52 fizzie: the variable file is not very fast". :) anyways, i mean syntax fnord etc. 14:21:52 fungot: make it faster! 14:21:53 FireFly: it's " swap the comma and period" followed by another " a", a unicode local, and you output a newline, your interpreter might not show an ui :p there) 14:26:12 fungot: what is a unicode local? 14:26:13 boily: does that allows to extend vim with scheme the implementation figures that out itself. technology is behind all 3 of those. at first the way dataflow folks play with it yourself. 14:31:23 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 14:35:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:35:43 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:36:56 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:40:10 -!- Bike has joined. 14:46:16 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:47:19 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:47:33 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:48:35 -!- fizzie has joined. 14:49:24 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:50:53 -!- carado has joined. 14:53:00 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 14:59:57 -!- aloril has joined. 15:01:45 -!- btiffin has joined. 15:04:30 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:06:55 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Client Quit). 15:08:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:17:06 -!- btiffin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:39:28 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:41:55 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 15:42:01 I wonder if learning OpenGL for C will help me learn it for Haskell enough for it to be worth it for the better-maintained and fuller tutorials? 15:43:46 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:44:38 Taneb: yes. you can also learn it for C++/Java, as they're only thin wrappers with the same function names. 15:44:38 @ping 15:44:38 pong 15:44:40 the Haskell OpenGL library I used is a pretty low level mapping of the C API 15:45:00 Wow, this new router is great 15:45:18 Taneb: is the old one a toaster yet? 15:45:22 just be careful of the version of OpenGL you chose to learn, as there are multiple major semantic changes and tools and ways of doing things between them. 15:45:26 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 15:45:39 ThatOtherPerson, nah, we've already got a toaster, don't need a new one 15:45:47 aw D: 15:45:52 -!- boily has changed nick to new_toaster. 15:46:01 yay :D 15:46:21 * new_toaster even has a bagel button! 15:46:34 (very important when you live in montréal or NYC) 15:47:30 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:47:35 * ThatOtherPerson slices a bagel in half and puts the slices into new_toaster, then pushes down the thingamabob and presses the bagel button 15:48:07 new_toaster: Do you prefer Montral-style bagels or New York-style bagels? 15:49:17 Haskell is OpenGL 2.1, right? 15:49:18 Yeah 15:49:24 I'd say that with OpenGL, the old fixed function pipeline is an interesting introduction but shouldn't be used for actual code 15:56:27 ThatOtherPerson: Montréal style, definitely. Freshly made in the morning, with sesamee seeds. 15:56:34 :D 15:56:42 Yep, those are pretty nice 15:56:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:02:17 What's the difference? 16:02:33 ("The bagel button". Crazy.) 16:03:20 fizzie: Montreal-style bagels are thinner, chewier, and slightly sweeter 16:04:20 -!- nooga has joined. 16:04:58 Hrm. I suppose I don't really have a point of reference here. 16:06:37 fizzie: Have you eaten bagels before? 16:07:00 Yes, several times, but I don't know which kind of they were, since it has all happened in Finland. 16:07:08 If I give you a photo, can you tell from it what kind it is? 16:07:13 yeah 16:07:20 http://arnolds.fi/bagels_en <- I've eaten those things. 16:07:37 Okay, so it mentions New York in the description. 16:07:51 Yep, those are New York-style bagels 16:08:12 except they probably were in Finland before they were in New York... 16:08:36 Then there's the ones I've eaten at home, I think they're thinner. At least the hole's bigger. 16:08:58 At any rate, I like all bagels 16:09:11 It's a funny word. 16:10:00 http://www.foodfactory.fi/dennisBagelit.php are the ones that they sell at our local grocery store. 16:11:21 Hey, the Wikipedia "Bagel" page lists the Finnish vesirinkeli. We used to buy a giant pile of those from the neighbour bakery when visiting the small town where my parents are from. 16:12:49 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:12:49 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 16:12:49 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:14:20 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 16:19:24 Bagels are the bond which unites us all. 16:20:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:20:32 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 16:22:54 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:24:00 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Client Quit). 16:35:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:36:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:45:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:47:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:52:49 ais523: heh, becauset here is too much spam? 16:55:09 elliott: yes 16:55:19 I turned it off and on again to reset it 16:55:41 sorry about that 16:55:48 anyway, now we have a filter 2 that's prevents edits anywhere if they contain
and no newline, only consequence is preventing the edit 16:56:35 this should block every spambot edit we've had recently 16:56:48 OK 16:56:53 the spambots have been trying various sorts of
to get around the filter; I'm reasonably sure there's some sort of human intervention 16:56:56 I swear soon I'll upgrade the wiki and add more captchas 16:57:00 perhaps some day they'll discover the existence of newlines ;) 16:57:04 hopefully we won't even need the filters then 16:57:21 ais523: hmm maybe I should look at the server logs 16:57:28 to see where the human is 16:57:33 elliott: well I have checkuser logs 16:57:40 well they could be using another IP 16:57:40 I found the human at one point through checkuser 16:57:43 and blocked the IP range 16:57:44 and not editing themselves or something 16:57:55 since then, everything's just been random proxies when I've checked 16:57:56 then it would be beneficial to block them from /reading/ the wiki, at the webserver level 16:58:00 so it's harder for them to try new strategies 16:58:01 the usual cannot-block-stuff 16:58:04 oh, proxies, of course :( 16:58:13 (maybe they have a distinctive user agent...) 16:59:07 well the person I suspect of being human stopped editing upon the "clicking submit will block you" warning 16:59:21 then resumed a little later from a browser that identified as x64 firefox rather than x86 firefox 17:00:07 You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that? 17:00:11 most likely explanations: they physically changed to a different computer because they thought it would get around the spambot traps (while continuing to use the same username), or they're faking their useragent 17:00:36 ais523: I'm baffled as to why, this behaviour does not fit with my mental model of wiki spammers at all 17:00:56 it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either 17:00:59 kmc: is that the thing that makes your brain melt if you're a bot? 17:01:11 which is: basically fully automated, targetting many thousands of wikis all at once, getting other people (without this kind of level of control) to solve CAPTCHAs 17:01:15 i thought it was just for detecting bots 17:01:16 the most likely thing I can think of is that they're trying to spam with very little idea of what they're doing 17:01:26 so why would someone who has the ability to change the bot's behaviour be messing around with a wiki that they can surely tell is basically pointless to spam? 17:01:36 probably the spammer variant of a script kiddie 17:01:47 they have some tools from somewhere and feel really l33t for using them 17:01:55 but don't fundamentally understand what they're doing 17:02:00 hmm... maybe I should look at the links they're spamming 17:02:10 although, I suppose they're links someone else is paying them to spam, most likely 17:02:21 and don't, that'd mean they weren't 100% wasting their time 17:03:08 ais523: they'll get no meaningful benefit from me looking at the link; I'll copy it so the referer doesn't show 17:03:24 and I might get marginal benefit from it w.r.t. not being as confused 17:04:38 ais523: anyway, I figure the easiest thing is to block these at registration time 17:05:04 if there really is a human getting around each extra prevention one by one, then it shouldn't be too hard to make them get bored if they can't even get accounts registered without a bunch of work 17:05:30 yep 17:05:39 we're getting legitimate non-spammy newbies too 17:05:46 so don't want to make things so hard for them 17:05:57 there's always the INTERCAL CAPTCHA that Claudio Calvelli uses, it's hilarious 17:07:03 ais523: so there was a non-proxy IP originally, right? 17:07:10 maybe we could report them to their ISP 17:07:34 elliott: there are some IPs that have been used multiple times, and also a range that had multiple spambots editing from it 17:07:37 look at my blocks on IP ranges 17:08:05 well, one range, one single IP 17:08:20 * elliott looks up the IPs 17:10:41 ais523: the 113.212.70.170 one is likely to be the spambot's unproxied IP, right? 17:10:52 or at least, less-proxied 17:11:03 I think the range is their actual IP 17:11:08 not sure, though 17:11:09 or, hmm 17:12:02 the one I just quoted is allocated to APNIC, fwiw 17:12:32 and the range, some networking company in Vegas I've never heard of 17:22:02 -!- atehwa has joined. 17:22:34 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:34:01 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:37:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:31 -!- conehead has joined. 17:44:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:44:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:49:35 -!- nooga has joined. 17:51:35 hiais523. i like your reversible brainfuck. but now you have a challenge 17:52:03 it needs a self interpreter:) 17:52:27 tromp_: why don't you write one yourself? Could be real fun 17:52:35 tromp_: IIRC it was proven TC 17:52:37 maybe not 17:55:15 yes, you proved that it's possible in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Reversible_Brainfuck#Computational_class 17:55:57 you coulf write a RBF interpreter in BF and then convert that to RBF 17:56:03 right 17:57:41 but maybe it can be done directly and still be competitive (in size) with existing BF self-interpreters 18:06:10 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:06:10 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 18:06:10 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:08:44 -!- new_toaster has changed nick to boily. 18:22:37 -!- augur has joined. 18:31:58 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 18:55:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:05:08 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:09:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:25:45 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:31:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:34:04 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:57:09 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:59:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:14 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:08:57 Why do sea gulls fly over seas? If they flew over bays, they'd be bagels. <-- i fear this channel may not be big enough for the both of us. 20:10:04 you're upset at having someone trying to outpun you? :3 20:10:17 _and_ being older to boot. 20:10:27 btiffin must accept the punishment 20:10:31 oh no :P 20:13:27 what is this channel's preferred form of punishment? tortue by brainfuck derivative? 20:13:36 s/ue/ure/ 20:14:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:14:40 my preferred form of punishment is swatting. 20:16:50 boily: there's always brainbricking 20:17:00 though some have started to consider that practice barbaric. 20:17:28 boily: A torte *of* brainfuck derivatives. 20:17:31 You and your swatter.. 20:17:42 brainbricking was invented during the Punic wars 20:17:47 tortilla of brainfuck derivatives 20:18:03 * oerjan hits FireFly with the saucepan ===\__/ 20:18:25 It caused those who suffered it to have a puny intelligence 20:18:38 oerjan: can you make a dependently-typed language with good coinduction please? 20:18:41 coq is awful at it. 20:18:56 It was then rediscovered by the punk movement in the 80's 20:19:01 elliott: unlikely. 20:19:27 oerjan, you can take a punt 20:19:32 Taneb: it was written on stone tablets found in punjab 20:19:43 * FireFly pours hot tea on oerjan C(__)` 20:20:01 (that is supposed to be a teapot) 20:20:03 Mmm, tea. 20:20:06 * oerjan sizzles 20:20:23 oerjan: I just want to write semantics with the partiality monad! 20:20:39 oerjan, my plot has been unspun! 20:20:40 elliott: "semantics"? what are you, conal? 20:20:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:22:39 Taneb: i deciphered it with a lyapunov function 20:23:17 * boily wetly slaps oerjan with a damp and humid metasepia just to see what happens (FOR SCIENCE!) 20:24:07 * oerjan scuttles fishily away 20:24:38 ...I'm going to stop. I happun to think this has gone to far. 20:27:07 * Fiora noms sushi 20:27:24 well it did now, when you started opun fake spellings 20:27:54 I think you're doing this on porpoise 20:28:13 even if it's just for the halibut, these puns are pretty crappie 20:28:20 cod be. 20:28:43 I can't salmon the force to face this puns. 20:28:48 s/this/these/ 20:29:07 yeah that's the trout 20:29:10 see, even my grammar is out of tuna. I need to go back to school. 20:29:30 sharking 20:30:27 it might be better if I clam up but I'm a bit shellfish when it comes to fintastic puns 20:30:27 hey wiktionary actually has a picture on the crappie page 20:31:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:01 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:33:57 Something's fishy 20:34:31 what 20:34:31 what 20:34:32 what 20:34:34 are you 20:34:37 people 20:34:40 doing fish puns 20:34:44 no, bots. 20:35:02 this is all a load of mackerel 20:35:35 Phantom_Hoover, try harder. That was carp. 20:35:42 if you don't like them, you can skipper them. 20:36:04 yeah well why don't you go pufferfish yourself 20:36:24 what kind of language is this i'm herring 20:37:19 It's somewhat angler-saxon 20:37:45 eel be damned, that's what I was going to sail. 20:37:58 Taneb: i think we're trawling the bottom here 20:38:21 water you even saying, these puns are reely crayative 20:38:36 we can always fit moray of them. 20:39:13 no, i _really_ think this topic is floundering 20:40:34 really we should wrasse the lot of it 20:40:38 i shrimply refuse to bereef it 20:41:20 this lobster meaning a page ago 20:42:43 i think it still has lobsta meaning 20:43:25 Fiora you are barnacle worst of the lot 20:43:55 oh well at least we're krilling some time 20:44:02 ah, it's fin to sea this channel filled to the bream with bad puns. 20:44:51 i like how these conversations always just end up being about how awful puns are starfish 20:47:03 now that we reached the pike of the subject, could someone quote the loach of it for posterity? 20:47:30 no we should never speak of this again dolphin 20:47:55 also we sacculina never do it again either 20:48:02 AAAAAH 20:48:06 * Bike knocks over a table 20:48:09 * oerjan is suspicious of Phantom_Hoover's puns, they look fishy in the wrong way 20:48:22 WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUCKERS 20:48:34 it happened once. leave it abalone once it's finished. 20:48:57 ...you can drink SHOTS of beer? 20:49:09 Taneb: yeah that's cannonical 20:49:16 would you triplefin blenny think of Bike, he's suffering 20:49:33 triplefin blenny what the FUCK 20:49:35 Alcohol has more to offer me than I thought 20:49:38 Shots of beer? What proof are you dealing with? 20:49:40 a woman needs a man like a bike needs a fish? 20:49:47 those aren't even words 20:49:53 i haven't got a single of Phantom_Hoover's puns. is anyone sure they're real? 20:50:14 ok i guess i get the mackerel one 20:50:32 think harder, you'll staghorn sculpin it eventually 20:50:51 you're just putting fish words in they don't evne make sense 20:50:58 yes 20:51:08 well Phantom_Hoover's puns are making me laugh the most 20:51:09 by far 20:51:14 * Bike throws the table at Phantom_Hoover 20:51:14 thus deadlocking the pun thread while everyone else frantically tries to work it out 20:51:18 that's the theory, at least 20:51:24 sadly Taneb ruined the experiment 20:52:14 in fact i am still laughing 20:52:34 triplefin blenny is probably valid cockney for something. 20:52:56 Phantom_Hoover is blatantly the most cockney person here 20:53:24 yes, that's fairly conception 20:54:08 no it's not nothing is fairly conception there is no conception and NOTHING IS FAIR 20:54:21 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:54:39 surprising ais523 didn't quit earlier 20:57:42 Nothing is conception and everything is permitted 20:58:19 ~duck conception 20:58:19 conception definition: the process of becoming pregnant involving fertilization or implantation or both. 20:58:30 ~eval Nothing 20:58:31 Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 20:58:31 arising from a use of `M4607643867718357546.show_M4607643867718357546' 20:58:31 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 20:58:31 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 20:58:31 Note: there are several potential instances: 20:58:31 instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Double 20:58:31 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' 20:58:32 instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Float 20:58:32 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' 20:58:33 instance (GHC.Real.Integral a, GHC.Show.Show a) => 20:58:33 GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Real.Ratio a) 20:58:34 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Real' 20:58:53 boily: ...you need defaulting rules. 20:59:17 what should I put in this case? 20:59:50 -XExtendedDefaultingRules 20:59:53 or whatever it's called 21:00:02 no can do for now. 21:00:10 oh right. the opaque binary. 21:00:22 you could make a ghc executable that comes before the real one in $PATH. 21:00:26 and adds ExtendedDefaultingRules. 21:05:33 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:16:02 yes, you proved that it's possible in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Reversible_Brainfuck#Computational_class 21:16:11 *GRUMBLE* i did that hth 21:16:29 oerjan: hello oerjan 21:16:36 `welcome oerjan 21:16:37 Rule 1 of #esoteric: 21:16:42 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:16:42 It was oerjan 21:17:31 sorry oerjan, i cldnt tell from the webpage 21:17:36 Taneb: i felt a little bad when someone else said they'd _almost_ showed emmental TC just after i put up my interpreter 21:18:33 all hail oerjan, completeness-prover-extraordinaire 21:19:01 oerjan, enemy of gödel 21:19:49 tromp_: IT'S ALL IN THE PAGE HISTORY 21:19:50 *sworn 21:19:57 * oerjan maybe should start crediting himself 21:20:19 yeah, i always read the whole history of every wiki page... 21:20:21 but i sort of like that the wiki is neutral speaker 21:20:59 Emmental was proven TC by ørjan the eternal, enemy of the darkness 21:21:08 oerjan: you can say that the work was done by oerjan 21:21:12 maybe they will believe someone else wrote it up 21:21:19 btw, you can remove " Included with permission. " from the Nora primes. 21:21:40 oh no 21:22:22 no need for legalese... 21:23:12 øh nø 21:23:19 tromp_, did you just... 21:23:39 did you just shorten Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? 21:23:46 tromp_: well i needed to say it somewhere, maybe the edit summary would have been enough 21:23:48 i sure did 21:24:25 tromp_: i'm sorry, but this is for your own good... 21:24:32 * oerjan swats tromp_ -----### 21:24:52 i hereby donate Nora prime sieve to the public domain 21:24:56 there you have it:) 21:25:14 sorry again taneb for my shortening:( 21:25:14 hi oerjan 21:25:19 can i be swatted a little bit 21:25:20 hi shachaf 21:25:43 * oerjan swats shachaf with the spare --# 21:25:49 Oh, come on. 21:25:56 I don't get a full -----### ? 21:26:03 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the longest-named esolang I know of 21:26:06 you said "a little bit" 21:26:18 true 21:26:22 Some of my bathrooms have baths; the rest are restrooms. 21:26:29 can i be swatted for that 21:26:38 Taneb: INTERCAL's official name is longer 21:26:46 i cant even be bothered to write out the full name of BLC... 21:26:47 or is it hm 21:27:09 > length "Compiler Language With No Pronouncable Acronym" 21:27:11 46 21:27:16 > length "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" 21:27:18 54 21:27:20 eek 21:27:28 here's the rule: if you need to cut&paste the name of your language, then it is too long 21:27:42 tromp_, it's not too hard to type it out 21:28:09 if you had, we'd have seen a typo or two:) 21:28:17 Nah, I'm just good 21:28:27 real fast nora's hair salon three: shear disaster download 21:28:34 (I actually am typing it out each time) 21:28:40 What kind of esolang is RFNHS3:SDD? 21:28:50 I think abbreviating Nora into 「リファノヘサスシディダ」 is better. 21:28:56 FireFly, haven't heard of it 21:28:58 IMO kick anyone who abbreviates that language 21:29:01 tromp: I wouldn’t bother to copy and paste that if my hand wasn’t on the mouse already. 21:29:05 shachaf: don't be a loonie 21:29:22 Taneb: okay then, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 21:29:30 FireFly, it's functional 21:29:35 elliot's o iso bjeectivel y correct 21:29:54 tromp_: we don't agree with that rule here around these parts. 21:30:16 tromp_: also i _don't_ need to cut&paste itflabtijtslwi. 21:30:30 boily: rihuānohesesusitèītà? 21:30:34 FireFly, basically lambda calculus with a really "nice and readable" syntax 21:31:11 basically a COBOLized lambda calculus 21:31:15 pikhq: does japanese use graves now 21:31:26 Bike: If I'm Romanizing it. 21:31:26 Imagine if binary lambda calculus and BIT got married and had a child 21:31:54 "nice and readable" 21:32:11 pikhq: the first syllable of each word. 21:32:35 Bike: The string he put out there is impossible to romanize with any other defined romanization scheme. 21:32:45 metal 21:32:57 Bike: Only way to do it would basically be with the random hacks used for Japanese input on keyboards. 21:33:00 I can't remember if it's ダ or ド for download. 21:33:14 Then it'd be something like "rifanohesesushidelida" 21:33:26 boily: It's ダウンロード, so ダ. 21:33:43 imo, make an esolang that does computation through romanizing tangut 21:33:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:34:15 time to go eat. 21:34:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:34:26 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:35:18 Bike: imo you do that 21:36:46 but i don't know tangut :( 21:37:27 it takes two to tangut 21:37:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:50:48 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:56:17 ooh, new drive comic 21:56:56 although it's still sort of filler 22:01:25 Audio dithering is god damned silly. 22:01:48 hither and dither 22:02:05 -!- atehwa has joined. 22:02:09 The simple-but-effective way is to just add low-amplitude white noise. 22:02:28 * oerjan wonders if there's a bot that makes better puns than these 22:02:58 puns puns puns 22:03:02 funpuns 22:03:13 except shachaf. 22:03:38 wait, maybe all humans are secretly punbots 22:03:51 fungot, are you a punbot? 22:04:04 pun bots make fun gots 22:04:11 mostly fungot is a runawaybot 22:04:12 fungot is dead 22:04:26 fizzie: SOMEONE KILLED FUNGOT 22:04:35 http://nothinginbiology.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/evo2012bingo.png So what does this sort of thing look like for CS and maths conferences 22:05:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:05:34 probably mostly the same 22:05:41 i dunno, but i would put "is easily seen" and "obvious" in any math ones 22:05:56 yeah i figured you could switch out "Darwin (1859)" for "trivial" 22:06:14 haha do people actually cite darwin like that 22:06:20 programmers like to say something is "trivial" when it will require 250 hours of engineering effort but the basic idea is simple 22:06:32 elliott: I've seen it. It's hilarious. 22:07:01 just in case anyone's reading the latest evolution papers and wants to find out about this "darwin" guy's work 22:07:13 Someday I'm going to cite Darwin (1881) and blow everybody's fucking mind 22:07:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:07:34 darwin did his most influential computer science work in 1881 22:07:50 he had some good material on earthworms 22:07:51 1881 is when he wrote his book on worm shit 22:07:53 The Formation of Vegetable Mould through the Action of Worms would be a good name for an album 22:08:01 kmc. 22:08:06 it's sort of like The Mysterious Production of Eggs 22:08:06 that would actually be a terrible name for an album 22:08:15 hah, I knew my biology major was good for something 22:08:16 Lovelace (1862) ? 22:08:25 oh sorry it's "The Formation of Vegetable Mould through the Action of Worms, with Observations on their Habits" 22:08:29 doesthiswork: don't try and comfort Bike 22:08:35 he needs to know how futile it is 22:08:35 interestingly Formation of Vegetable Moulds is actually very interesting 22:08:48 not what you'd expect from a book about which direction worms pull leaves into their burrows 22:08:55 oh she was already dead then 22:08:56 the only thing more useless than a biology degree is a speech recognition researcher 22:08:59 * elliott looks at fizzie 22:09:12 ... I have a friend who does that 22:09:13 hey guys 22:09:14 oerjan: also wasn't lovelace's thing like a translation 22:09:23 oerjan: how's my timing today, uh? 22:09:27 or a ltter, i forget 22:09:29 doesthiswork: I hope they make you feel better about yourself 22:09:47 Koen_: much better 22:09:59 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01312010 22:10:06 what's a speech recognition researcher? 22:10:10 oh wait 22:10:13 ok 22:10:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earthworm_klitellum_copulation_beentree.jpg hot 22:10:40 elliott: but I like trying to comfort bike 22:10:45 * Koen_ was imagining some guy analyzing speeches in a way similar to how some people analyze handwriting 22:10:58 Fiora: ok well you can tell him stories about speech recognition. that is acceptable 22:11:03 kmc: fun fact darwin's book on emotions was one of the first books to include photographs http://www.ucl.ac.uk/sts/engage_academics/impact/narratives/images/eema4.jpg 22:11:05 the ladies love a man you knows that much about oral production 22:11:14 what 22:11:24 Bike: hahahaha 22:11:44 that's him? 22:11:47 nah 22:12:00 just some guy who also has a prodigious beard 22:12:10 this is him: http://images.arcadja.com/charles_darwin-the_expression_of_the_emotions_in_man~OMd4b300~10001_20071014_15400_4646.jpg 22:12:18 best plate in history imo 22:12:55 troll face is one of the primative primate signals 22:13:00 picture of charles darwin: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Oscar_Wilde_portrait.jpg/220px-Oscar_Wilde_portrait.jpg 22:13:28 that might be the wrong photo 22:13:35 kmc: i'm pretty disappointed that those terms aren't actually composting things. 22:13:50 are you a person who knows about compost 22:14:05 no i just wanted "open Tanoku matrix" to be real 22:17:35 "I have just received such a Box full from Mr Bateman with the astounding Angræcum sesquipedalia with a nectary a foot long— Good Heavens what insect can suck it" thinking i need to read darwin's letters 22:18:01 did you see http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/10/18/163181524/charles-darwin-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-day 22:18:28 haha yes 22:18:44 btw the answer to his question was apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NHM_Xanthopan_morgani.jpg which is horrifying 22:18:56 D: 22:19:24 did darwin do any mushroom biology 22:20:19 fungi are so weird, i think they're the least well studied kingdom by far 22:20:20 Let's see... no I think he mostly did botany, sucks. 22:20:42 I guess I can't blame him. Like, Origin of Species was literally written before the germ theory of disease, what the fuck. 22:24:25 Given how little was known at the time, Darwin was really quite impressive. 22:25:19 Even without having any idea of microbiology, he mentioned the possibility of parasitic worms and fungi evolving, like wow dude. 22:25:39 that's what 50 years of makeing sure it makes sense does for you 22:26:16 Yup. He figured it out just by inferring very well. 22:30:36 Yes, he was pretty good at it. Now that we actually have such science, though, our science improved to be better than Darwin's stuff. 22:30:37 zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 22:30:40 ?messages 22:30:41 shachaf asked 1d 1h 26m 47s ago: are you into alchemy 22:31:40 -!- hagb4rdoux has joined. 22:32:00 Well, yeah, Darwin's theory of how heredity actually worked is pretty fucking funny 22:32:59 Darwin certainly did make a lot of mistakes, though; but, so do a lot of people. 22:33:35 Now I wrote about a #% command in Esoteric Verilog to specify faulty components which have a given probability to give the correct answer instead of always working correctly. 22:34:23 fungi are so weird, i think they're the least well studied kingdom by far 22:34:40 archae, bitch 22:34:43 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:35:10 high there! isn't that kalbrenners most awesome track? just enjoyous..(you may know one of the brothers - both music makers, bu also bot solo-artist 22:35:17 .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2hCo6X-1YcY#t=0s) 22:35:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2hCo6X-1YcY#t=0s 22:35:23 Phantom_Hoover: yeah maybe 22:35:32 I sort of meant relative to complexity and variety 22:35:34 Phantom_Hoover: that's not really a kingdom so much as a miscellaneous dump :/ 22:37:03 * hagb4rdoux like died afte typing ít, leaving some riddles for futures archeologists 22:37:04 -!- fungot has joined. 22:37:16 hi 22:37:17 fungot: Try to stay alive there. 22:37:17 fizzie: ( twb: except " initialization" is fnord 22:37:22 -!- hagb4rdoux has changed nick to hagb4rd. 22:38:25 -- well that would be fair: the movie "berlin calling" .. if you've seen it you know him 22:39:19 he kinda played himself, after just consulting the regisseur they just did by one take :P 22:39:24 did it 22:42:12 damn! how can i be sooo wrong? heres the correct link 22:42:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2hCo6X-1YcY#t=720s 22:42:20 12:000 22:42:24 sry 22:45:30 I read in some book about a experiment to distinguish many-worlds from Copenhagen. To me, the experiment described seems impossible. 22:45:50 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:45:52 (Other than that the experiment looks OK, though.) 22:46:50 -!- augur has joined. 22:46:58 what is the experiment 22:48:21 I do not have that book with me right now, and I do not entirely remember, but it involves making the experiment entirely reversing itself and everything involved; that also includes whoever did the experiment, and if he gives the result to someone then it must involve them too; if he write it or put in the computer, it involves that paper/computer too, etc 22:48:42 ... 22:49:03 Sounds tractable 22:52:24 so basically a quantum erasure experiment taken to macroscopic level? 22:52:44 Yes 22:52:50 I think so 22:58:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:03:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:11:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:26:44 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:28:19 I broke the build :( 23:29:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:30:05 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:31:07 don't break the build 23:31:14 -!- monqy has joined. 23:31:24 hi monqy 23:31:35 hi shachaf 23:31:35 Sgeo: does your company have a funny hat or a cardboard cutout of justin bieber or a vat of acid or other such zany tradition for punishing people who break the build 23:31:47 firing squad 23:32:02 "Fools! You kill only a man." 23:32:09 did sgeo break the build 23:32:15 yuuuuuup 23:32:19 :-D 23:32:54 we've all broken the build in our time 23:32:58 even elliott 23:33:00 There was an email sent to several people about it. It's kind of embarrassing. Especially after my boss said the prior day to just make sure it builds, and commit it. 23:33:29 oerjan: imo make this channel +c 23:33:30 shachaf: uh I use dynamic langugaes, there is no build to break, that's why they are better 23:34:12 Sgeo: so whats the story behind committing & pushing this commit without checking it builds 23:34:24 Anyone ever heard of someone losing their doctorate before? 23:35:00 for cheating 23:35:09 It built and ran fine on my machine. But running it uses the 'local' profile, which I guess whatever automated process is used for checking that revisions build doesn't, or something 23:35:24 Bike: yes 23:35:25 like after actually getting it 23:35:33 i'd never heard of it before 23:35:46 -!- augur has joined. 23:35:50 (Well, I guess it technically built fine but didn't run) 23:35:51 plagiarism can make that happen 23:35:56 also «A German professor who claims to have developed “a self-consistent field theory which is used to derive at all known interactions of the potential vortex” will have at least two papers retracted, thanks to the scrutiny of a concerned economist» nooooo vortices 23:36:05 oerjan: yeah that's what happened in the case i was looking at 23:36:12 economists ruin everything, am i right 23:36:20 but according to random internet person, "Pretty sure people have been hanged for much less than it takes for someone to lose their PhD" 23:36:33 kmc: well they have the theory of ruin, they should be good at it 23:36:55 To give you a glimpse of this: According to this paper, magnetic “scalar waves” (an invention of Meyl unknown in temporary physics) emanate from the DNA of human cells and bring these cells in resonance with each other, their environment, and other human beings. This, according to Meyl, explains not only epigenetics, but also the workings of telepathy, telekinesis, and the human “aura”. Moreover, it reveals why love will never be measu 23:36:55 Incidentally, I am now convinced that, whatever the merits or lack thereof of dynamic typing, the stupidity of dynamic typing PEOPLE makes it suck 23:37:31 shachaf: why? 23:37:50 Sgeo: anyone who's committed enough to dynamic typing to be a "dynamic typing person" might be dumb yeah 23:37:55 and likewise for "static typing person" 23:38:02 but plenty of smart people use dynamic languages 23:38:05 Bike: PhDs aren't revoked. It just isn't done. If that idiot Behe still has a PhD, no one can ever lose one. 23:38:26 Gregor: this person gave his up semi-voluntarily so I was wondering about it. 23:38:32 i misread Behe as Bike at first 23:38:34 * Sgeo was more referring to this tendency to think it's a good idea to make clients check what type something is 23:38:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:38:45 * FireFly wonders who this Behe is 23:38:51 As in, APIs that return a collection unless there would be one item in the collection, in which case it returns the item 23:38:54 That sort of thing 23:38:54 "Michael J. Behe (pron.: /ˈbiːhiː/ bee-hee; born January 18, 1952) is an American biochemist, author, and intelligent design advocate." 23:39:06 Sgeo: yeah that's bad 23:39:16 a lot of people who use dynamic languages will agree that is bad 23:40:17 Bike: That last bit is the relevant part. 23:40:32 Gregor: so i gathered 23:40:33 «We’ve asked Meyl — who sells various equipment, including a 3,600-euro device that allows users to “construct an energy transmission line according to Tesla” — for comment and will update with anything we learn.» 23:40:49 It's in a library at work, it's in Clojure, I think it used to be in Python 23:40:51 Thatn sort of thing, I mean 23:41:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:41:23 Sgeo: an old version of `splice` from the JS standard library did that >.< 23:41:37 and yes, it's awful 23:42:09 "In one case, my adviser’s name ended up on a paper describing work that she had actually forbade me to do. She was going for tenure at the time." i keep reading about academia... 23:42:10 Bike: "it reveals why love will never be measu" 23:42:16 oerjan: measured. 23:42:33 darn i was so sure it was some other word 23:42:40 sorry! 23:44:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:44:51 -!- Bike has joined. 23:46:50 measúil probably 23:46:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:53:47 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:56:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:59:01 -!- madbr has joined. 2013-04-05: 00:01:08 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:01:08 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:01:08 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:01:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:03:25 -!- augur has joined. 00:16:56 Bike_: btw you got cut off at "why love will never be measu" 00:17:48 oops 00:21:31 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 00:21:59 measu more like ceaușescu 00:23:25 -!- nooga has joined. 00:25:44 Gregor: that behe guy's page is sad http://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/faculty/behe.html 00:25:55 Gregor: "My ideas about irreducible complexity and intelligent design are entirely my own. They certainly are not in any sense endorsed by either Lehigh University in general or the Department of Biological Sciences in particular. In fact, most of my colleagues in the Department strongly disagree with them." 00:26:49 elliott: The university itself has a page summarily disavowing all connections with his views. 00:27:09 typical liberal censorship 00:27:23 lul 00:27:54 "Such a research credit system would have huge benefits for one’s career prospects; and it might encourage more effective collaborations. Moreover, these credits could easily be tracked by scientist or project in a database akin to the Internet Movie Database (IMDB). It could provide an alternative to the ever-so-important citation factors as a means of assessing one’s scientific impact. And maybe one day there will even be an Academy Awar 00:28:18 academy awar 00:28:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 00:28:31 How did I not know about this fellow before. 00:28:39 ds of Science. 00:28:48 Gregor: haha link 00:28:52 * Bike curses, loads splitlong.pl 00:29:21 this behe guy seems more pitiful than anything 00:29:23 elliott: http://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/news/evolution.htm 00:29:31 Behe has testified in several court cases related to intelligent design, including the court case Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District that resulted in a ruling that intelligent design was religious in nature.[2] 00:29:45 elliott: I love its use of scare quotes, btw. 00:29:46 can't imagine he is doing very much that furthers the ID cause all in all 00:29:52 How do you know *biochem* and think it's intelligently designed? 00:30:15 I mean damn, biology is the least intelligent thing. 00:30:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:38 Gregor: man it must be real awkward in that department 00:31:00 Tenure is amazing. 00:31:05 so uh none of his papers appear to be very biochem 00:31:18 he published one in "God and Design: The Teleological Argument and Modern Science" 00:31:36 :-) 00:31:47 Bike: Ever since he became all stupid-ID, he has a total of one peer-reviewed paper in a legitimate journal. 00:31:51 dare i look at the paper he put a pdf of up? 00:32:03 Maybe it is what it seems to someone, whether it seems to be intelligently designed to you or completely stupid designed. 00:32:05 i'm thinking no 00:32:25 I don't know for sure, of course; this is just a guess. 00:32:47 unrelated «A team of scientists can verify that their 5-year long DNA study, currently under peer-review, confirms the existence of a novel hominin hybrid species, commonly called “Bigfoot” or “Sasquatch,” living in North America. Researchers’ extensive DNA sequencing suggests that the legendary Sasquatch is a human relative that arose approximately 15,000 years ago as a hybrid cross of modern Homo sapiens with an unknown ... 00:32:53 ... primate species.» 00:33:26 -!- augur has joined. 00:33:58 m-hm 00:34:06 I read in some book, that it is illegal to kill a Sasquatch in British Columbia. If it exists, it must be rare and therefore endangered species to I suppose it makes sense whether or not it exists, by using this logic. 00:37:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:31 Actually the person said that governments should immediately recognize sasquatches as indigenous peoples 00:40:20 -!- augur has joined. 00:52:00 Science does not show you whether or not God made up the world and stuff anyways; it only shows you how indirect it is. 00:52:08 I just realized why the library in question emits objects when there's only 1, rather than an array containing the object... and it's not the fault of Cablevision's wrapper around the library. 00:52:17 I blame Cablevision's wrapper for a lot of things, but not this. 00:55:09 "During the time of their association, Livingstone urged Sechele to make peace with the uncle who ruled the other half of the Kwêna. Sechele sent his uncle a gift of gunpowder. The uncle was suspicious of the gift and set fire to it. His death in the resulting explosion enabled Sechele to reunite the tribe." 00:55:19 smart move, uncle 00:55:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:56:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:57:38 -!- augur has joined. 01:00:39 http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/1bo6tm/the_onion_popular_childrens_book_author_reveals/ 01:05:18 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:07:59 wat 01:08:24 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:09:46 NO MEME POSTINGS -- except as comments here: The Official Conspiratard Memes Thread 01:09:51 sgeo why are you on reddit 01:11:58 sgeo are you on reddit again....... 01:12:35 * Sgeo star-heart-horseshoe reddit 01:13:47 "meme" means a picture with some text on top of it right?? 01:14:22 shachaf: oh god you may be right 01:14:30 -!- sdr|Flu has changed nick to ReadingDragon. 01:14:49 it might actually have got that as its common meaning 01:15:18 it's, like... word cancer 01:15:22 :-( 01:15:25 constantly mutating and metastatising 01:16:58 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:17:05 Phantom_Hoover: well maybe we'll get mad scientists as a result (see: the miracle of science comic) 01:18:14 *the a 01:18:39 the original concept is silly enough that it's hard to feel bad about it being co-opted into whatever the fuck reddit does, except that i don't like reddit more than i don't like dawkins. a dilemma 01:24:29 would you say that the word "meme" is............ a meme?!?!? 01:26:31 * Sgeo is actually quite active on Reddit 01:27:03 (Doctor Who spoilers) 01:27:09 (If you try to Reddit stalk me) 01:27:49 "There are decent Redditors, they just don't understand how much fun they could be having driving the scum from their shores." 01:28:31 best spoiler warning ever 01:28:50 i'm really quite active on reddit (spoiler warning for John's Bells) 01:29:01 Sgeo: why would i "try to Reddit stalk" you 01:29:09 we know every last detail of your life from this channel 01:29:33 No you don't. (Although many details not on here are also not on Reddit) 01:29:48 name one thing we don't know 01:29:54 sgeo, international man of mystery 01:30:14 his... height? 01:30:27 I've mentioned my height 01:30:46 sgeo XD 01:30:48 where he works and information about their proprietary codebase 01:30:50 wait n/m 01:31:39 #esoteric, more like #sgeoconfessional 01:31:41 his height is 1.026 fiorameters 01:31:50 that's pretty short. 01:31:56 what's a fiorametre in normal heights 01:31:57 how many meters are there in a fiorameter 01:32:02 1.56? 01:32:08 (it's like a smoot or something) 01:32:14 i assume everyone in this channel is either physically stunted or scandinavian 01:32:28 Phantom_Hoover: um, she said fiorameter 01:32:32 fiorametre is something else 01:32:41 Phantom_Hoover: i'm actually a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_aliens 01:32:44 a fiorameter is a device for measuring Fioras 01:32:55 who the hell measures height in metres 01:33:02 Bike, i... wow 01:33:03 like ok come on imperial system sucks the most 01:33:11 but how tall is even a metre?? nobody knows 01:33:14 height is measured in meters not metres hth 01:33:17 um, I mean, I measure in centimeters, but meters/cm are kinda the same thing really? 01:33:26 We put forward a practice perspective on absorptive capacity. We illustrate this by network congregating, i.e. repeatedly exchanging face-to-face ideas at interorganizational venues such as conferences, which Intel Corporation attends as a leading member of the semiconductor industry network SEMATECH. 01:33:27 uh 01:33:31 I mean, they're trivially convertible 01:33:44 they are literally orders of magnitude apart 01:33:46 not when you're using base 12 01:34:01 sorry but I live in the UK and we like to have at least one stupid exception to every rule. in this case, the exception is that we measure height in feet & inches even though nobody really uses them for anything else except old people 01:34:10 elliott: and you measure weight 01:34:11 in STONE 01:34:13 yes 01:34:14 elliott: Do you still use km/h for vehicular speeds 01:34:19 what in the I don't even why 01:34:23 i feel the stone is a nice round measurement 01:34:32 and not just because stones are nice and round! 01:34:35 Bike: we measure long distances in miles 01:34:38 * Bike stones Phantom_Hoover 01:34:43 Fiora: well I use kg for weight actually 01:34:45 elliott: wait do you actually use stone 01:34:45 elliott: aw man that's way too consistently inconsistent 01:34:49 elliott, road signs are all in miles/yards 01:34:51 because I draw the line at figuring out how much a stone is 01:34:54 kilograms NOW we're talking 01:34:55 XD 01:35:12 I measure my weight in platinum-iridium cylinders 01:35:12 well basically it's a good sized stone 01:35:21 kilograms are nice because a kilometer is literally defined as "how massy this one particular object in France is" 01:35:23 I have no fucking clue how much a stone is. 01:35:26 kilogram* 01:35:32 Pounds work, kilograms work, but stone? 01:35:42 I think a stone is like 6.something kg? 01:35:52 oh. 14 pounds. what. why 14. 01:36:03 Welcome to imperial measurement! 01:36:08 Here's your hogshead of ale 01:36:09 all the imperial conversion factors are an even teen 01:36:11 Probably because the king's favorite stone happened to be 14 pounds. 01:36:13 lol stone 01:36:13 it's like. it has different bases for every conversation factor 01:36:14 where teen also includes 12 01:36:25 the reason why british people can never make fun of americans for having dumb units 01:36:36 (a hogshead is 238.480942 liters i hope you like alcohol) 01:36:58 imo the best unit of measurement is the bloit 01:37:02 Bike: Only some hogsheads are 238.480942 L. 01:37:29 bloit: the distance the king's favourite pet can run in one hour 01:37:34 Only the greatest hogsheads can aspire to be 238.480942 liters 01:37:40 the best unit of measurement is the barn-megaparsec 01:37:45 Which hogshead unit to use depends on what you're *measuring*. 01:37:46 I still can't get over how columbus thought he could sail to the East Indies because he miscalculated the earth's circumference... 01:37:47 And where. 01:37:52 because he used the wrong "mile" unit 01:38:07 in his math 01:38:15 * kmc is 6'3" tall and not scandinavian 01:38:33 are you descended from redwoods 01:38:48 * pikhq is 5'11" tall and part scandinavian 01:39:01 kmc, i think my primary datapoint in this was, uh... elliott 01:39:20 wait datapoint in what 01:39:32 everyone here being medieval height 01:39:38 ah 01:39:56 i think i may have grown a bit 01:39:57 what's medieval height? 01:39:58 no i think i'm decended from british people and german people and maybe irish people? 01:40:01 maybe 01:40:01 "white people" 01:40:03 v. short 01:40:05 idk i feel short 01:40:16 elliott: i thought you were school isn't school tall 01:40:16 how tall are you? 01:40:26 Fiora: exactly 01:40:32 I don't know! 01:40:38 and I can't check now because it would ruin the mystery 01:40:39 you... don't know? XD 01:40:41 it's time for a heartwarming lesson about how short people and tall people each have unique advantages in life 01:40:43 my dad assures me my extended family is all short due to malnutrition 01:40:45 is this like, quantum height? 01:40:48 i am sceptical of this however 01:40:52 like, if you don't measure it, it's not decided yet? 01:41:08 Fiora: that's my approach to my weight at the moment :X 01:41:21 man fiora i forget my fucking age, can't you forgive someone not knowing how much taller than you they are 01:41:36 i used to be like 200 lbs, which was pretty much fine, but then chipotle opened next door to work... 01:41:40 Bike: I'm teasing and being silly 01:41:52 you monster 01:42:01 do bikes even age 01:42:10 no but we depreciate 01:42:10 they totally do, you have to replace them after a while right? 01:42:10 if elliott measures his height he'll just become uncertain about the speed he's growing 01:42:19 *snerk* 01:42:35 which carries the risk that he will shrink into nothing 01:42:38 i got drunk and fixed my bike the other day 01:42:45 still needs 1 more fix though 01:42:46 Phantom_Hoover: some say this has already happened 01:42:47 thug lyfe 01:43:33 Bike hello 01:43:49 hi shachaf! 01:43:51 what's up 01:44:23 hi Bike߹ 01:44:29 `welcome Bike 01:44:35 Bike: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:44:37 nko 01:44:39 wtf is nko 01:46:19 oh it's a west african language 01:46:39 so when will Bike have to be replaced 01:47:23 kmc will get drunk and fix him 01:47:25 `frink 1 barn megaparsec 01:47:30 I'm on a rolling replacement schedule. Parts of me will be replaced all the time, even as you're talking to me 01:47:38 0.0000030856775813057289536 m^3 (volume) 01:50:15 that's not very big 01:52:36 Bike: do you contain pieces from the ship of theseus? 01:52:41 `frink 1 liter 01:52:54 1/1000 (exactly 0.001) m^3 (volume) 01:52:59 oerjan: wasn't that destroyed by like a billion years ago 01:53:03 wait _are_ you the ship of theseus 01:53:17 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:53:18 That's 3 mL. 01:53:20 wasn't I destroyed like a billion years ago 01:53:23 Small, but usable. 01:53:32 Bike: possibly. are you being whooshed? 01:53:38 `frink 1 knot / hertz * newton / pascal 01:53:43 possibly 01:53:49 463/900 (approx. 0.5144444444444445) m^3 (volume) 01:54:09 `frink 1 mile/gallon 01:54:15 knotN/HzPa: the best unit?? 01:54:18 48000000000/112903 (approx. 425143.707430272) m^-2 (unknown unit type) 01:54:23 :) 01:54:49 `frink 1 2 / 3 4 01:54:58 8/3 (approx. 2.6666666666666665) 01:58:37 -!- nooga has joined. 02:01:50 "Writing for ArtReview, Sam Jacob noted that Sugababes, one of the most successful all-female British bands of the 21st century,[8] "were formed in 1998 [..] but one by one they left, till by September 2009 none of the founders remained in the band; each had been replaced by another member, just like the planks of Theseus’s boat."[9][10] Echoing Hobbes' discussion on the discarded planks, the three original members reformed in 2011 under the name Mu 02:02:14 under the name Mu 02:02:19 Mutya Keisha Siobhan, with the "original" Sugababes still in existence." 02:02:38 catchy name that 02:02:50 it's actually just their first names 02:03:51 oerjan: mkdir ~/.irssi/scripts && ln -s . ~/.irssi/scripts/autorun && ln -s /usr/share/irssi/scripts/splitlong ~/.irssi/scripts/ 02:03:59 err 02:04:09 oerjan: ln -s /usr/share/irssi/scripts/splitlong.pl ~/.irssi/scripts/ 02:04:15 /script load splitlong 02:05:55 OKAY 02:21:17 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:31:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 02:32:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:33:54 -!- augur has joined. 02:35:15 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:39:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:50:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:52:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No route to host). 02:53:13 -!- augur has joined. 03:00:17 http://www.neocomputer.org/projects/et/ 03:03:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:06:29 The myth: A lot of people blame poor collision detection for this problem. That is simply not true. The collision detection in E.T. is perfect. There are no bounding boxes like in more modern games. Collision detection happens at the pixel level. You can't get any better than that. If you fall in to a well, it's because your player character visually overlaps it. 03:07:20 that is... actually really cool O_O 03:07:34 mods like that are always really impressive, though I think my favorite are the pokemon 'mods' 03:07:57 what do they do? 03:08:03 there's literally total conversions of pokemon that add entire new regions, tons of new pokemon, non-midi (i.e. recorded) background music 03:08:16 and redo the entire type system and battle logic 03:08:34 and it still works on a GBA 03:08:45 oh yeah one of my friends played Pokemon Quartz or whatever it was 03:08:50 like, they even changed the size of the cartridge 03:08:53 very weird to see 03:08:55 Oh, good, actually works on real hardware. 03:09:08 The SNES world has stupid shit like people writing patches for ZSNES. 03:09:18 Which is, uh, ludicrous. 03:09:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FwJjJlESzY 03:09:30 is pikhq secretly the bsnes guy 03:09:34 (example I guess?) 03:09:41 Bike: No, I just am a BSNES fan. 03:09:45 haha knew it 03:09:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:10:08 -!- augur has joined. 03:10:25 Players looking for additional challenge above game mode 3, but not quite as challenging as game mode 2 (with the nasty FBI Agent) have always felt left out. 03:10:28 all 0 players 03:10:36 Fiora: I was half expecting that to go into Touhou danmaku 03:11:02 ...are these vocals 03:11:10 yeah 03:11:14 the quality isn't that great, but it's a GBA 03:11:17 I didn't even know GBA sound could do that 03:11:52 I didn't know either 03:11:54 and then I saw this <.< 03:13:19 how long is this song holy hell 03:13:39 they have multiple tracks too, replacing various themes apparently 03:13:46 and they only increased the cart from like 16 to 32MB (?!) 03:14:05 I wonder what they did, like, I doubt the GBA can decode mp3 O_O 03:14:21 half their attacks are ohks. i don't remember the elite four being this fast >: 03:14:22 could just be low sample rate/mono I guess 03:14:26 maybe with ADPCM? 03:14:34 well i mean the DS could barely manage vocals right 03:14:45 twewy's sound quality was... not so good 03:15:40 All official software for Nintendo DS has to use the official ARM7 codes but homebrew softwares may have their own ARM7 codes so that you can do some limited parallel processing and stuff 03:16:00 The GBA is actually probably quite capable of decoding MP3. 03:16:08 Erm, wait 03:16:13 No, I was looking at the DS specs 03:16:14 XD 03:16:22 Hmm. 16.78 MHz. 03:16:57 I think you could pull off an MP2 decoder on that. 03:17:33 you'd need some fixed point madness too, probably XD 03:18:09 but could you do that while also performing the tortorous calculations of a pokeyman battle 03:19:04 If it is a homebrew program you might be able to, possibly 03:19:22 Listening to the actual audio though, it sounds like it's mu-law at a decent sampling rate. 03:19:57 ah, so not even like adpcm, even simpler 03:20:14 Gets reasonable audio performance though. 03:20:36 Particularly if you're willing to shove it at, like, 16kHz or more. 03:20:56 128kbps audio if it's 8-bit 16kHz mu-law. 03:21:30 You're not going to have a *ton* of this stuff in the game like that, but you've definitely got room. 03:21:57 they probably splurged for the final boss. 03:23:04 And as far as the sound output goes, you can rather reasonably shove PCM out of it. 03:23:38 And that game with barely done vocals on the DS? That's probably just incompetence. 03:23:56 :( 03:24:09 They had a lot of movie cutscenes too, maybe they didn't have room. 03:24:43 512 megs. 03:26:24 it does 32 channels of adpcm I think with the normal "bios" 03:26:25 madbr: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 03:26:27 Why should they need so many movie cutscenes? They shouldn't need a lot of high-quality recorded music either (you can use a simple sound generator). 03:26:50 streaming music is boring anyways 03:27:06 zzo38: It had a lot of rap. 03:27:38 cool, the chinese spammers have moved on from trying to sell me wire mesh 03:27:44 now they want to sell me 'double wire binding machine, double wire forming machine, automatic punching machine, etc' 03:27:54 an automatic punching machine WOULD be pretty useful 03:29:45 Punching speed: 4200/5400(times/hour) 03:30:04 automatic circumcisers? matching salt and pepper shakers? 03:30:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:30:09 haha 03:30:11 they'd better have actually provided that figure kmc 03:30:23 they did 03:30:26 yes 03:30:31 well i trascribed it wrong, it was "4200-5400" 03:30:37 it's better wtih the / :( 03:30:50 i wouldn't invest in an automatic punching machine unless i knew was getting at LEAST 3000 punches/hr 03:30:50 sry 03:31:40 it's a big Internet and it will take a long time to punch everyone on it 03:32:58 -!- Whtspc has joined. 03:33:16 i'll sign up for the kmc punch 03:34:51 form a line to the throne 03:37:21 Bike: yeah, DS games had a ton of room 03:37:27 the biggest DS cartridge is actually pokemon black/white, I think 03:39:32 how fast is the DS's first core? 03:39:52 ~60MHz 03:40:09 Not *enormously* fast, but fast enough to do some decent audio decompression. 03:40:22 mp2/mpc is like only half the size of adpcm 03:40:32 for like 100x the cpu usage 03:40:48 I guess it's ok if the cpu is doing, like, nothing else 03:40:55 and it's only one sound at the time 03:41:53 mp3 is even slower due to the added mdct 03:41:58 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:42:19 -!- Whtspc has quit (Quit: Bye). 03:42:19 and ogg has even larger MDCTs 03:42:30 There's a reason I was suggesting MP2. :) 03:42:41 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:42:43 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:43:13 do you mean vorbis 03:43:21 kmc: One presumes. 03:43:22 ogg=vorbis 03:43:26 not true 03:43:31 ogg is the container format, I thouht? 03:43:33 yep 03:43:33 thought 03:43:38 yeah I know ogg is the container format 03:43:39 technically 03:43:43 doesn't matter 03:43:51 ogg speex and ogg flac files are pretty common I think 03:43:51 Vorbis is not Ogg. 03:43:58 "in this conversation about technical aspects of music storage formats i was being nontechnical" 03:44:00 pikhq: once again 03:44:01 also ogg video files with whatever audio codec as well 03:44:07 kmc: What's a bit more common is Vorbis in not-Ogg. 03:44:11 anyway i like that they're named after an obscure discworld character 03:44:20 For instance, WebM. 03:44:21 pikhq: yes ogg is the container format. but it doesn't matter because ogg is only used for vorbis anyways 03:44:25 pikhq: hm 03:44:30 which is derived from matroshka? 03:44:31 madbr: OGM, anyone? 03:44:39 madbr: but that's not true and anyway, why not say the correct thing 03:44:42 kmc: Yes, it's a subset of Matroska. 03:45:12 if they called the extension .vorbis, I'd call it vorbis 03:45:25 they named the files .ogg so that stuck, fine with me 03:45:26 madbr: That's like saying "MKV" when you mean h.264. 03:45:44 Or "AVI" when you mean DivX. 03:45:59 everybody calls vorbis "ogg" 03:46:00 everybody 03:46:13 nope 03:46:14 not me 03:46:16 hth 03:46:19 Look at the channel you're in. 03:46:21 nitpicking on that is pretentious 03:46:29 Look at the channel you're in. 03:46:33 Ogg container format is use for a few other things too, and I think Ogg is a much better container format than Matroska anyways. For additional data you should have multiple streams; however many you need for the extra data, and then exclude whatever you don't want. 03:46:33 i don't deny that i'm being pedantic 03:46:41 but I think it's appropriate 03:46:44 in context 03:46:44 no it's not 03:46:54 ok 03:46:56 i don't care 03:47:17 you may resume your discussion of DCT sizes or whatever 03:47:19 anyways 03:47:50 yeah irl they mostly use mpc/mp3/ogg (vorbis, whatever) on platforms that have limited bandwidth 03:48:04 ie optical media (CDs, blue rays, DVDs) 03:48:17 on iphone it's actually not worth it 03:49:25 adpcm is twice as large but it's 1/10th the CPU usage 03:50:26 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:51:11 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:52:40 incidentally it's also much, much, much easier to implement in hardware, which is why a lot of platforms had it too 03:54:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:03:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:09:14 -!- kallisti has joined. 04:09:58 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:18:17 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:22:40 -!- augur has joined. 04:24:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:24:48 -!- augur has joined. 04:25:09 -!- monqy has joined. 04:31:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:34:35 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:34:50 Vault uses unsafePerformIO 04:35:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:35:08 I was hoping there was a 'pure' way to do that sort of arbitrary type data store 04:35:12 gotta go fast *obnoxiously distorted Sonic music* 04:35:42 vault uses unsafeCoerce, not unsafePerformIO 04:35:57 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 04:36:06 hi Bike 04:36:08 anyway you need to add a primitive typed name supply where equality gives evidence of type equality e.g. Typeable is actually fulfilling this role 04:36:13 then you can build everything else on top of that 04:36:15 hi monqy 04:36:30 hang on hang on what's going on here "this look good" 04:36:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF9CS3L_ezw 04:36:32 s 04:36:38 hi monqy 04:36:48 i gotta get in on this hi monqy business 04:36:56 https://github.com/HeinrichApfelmus/vault/blob/master/src/Data/Vault/ST/Pure_Lazy.hs#L30 04:37:36 i agree that one specific file has unsafePerformIO in it, not sure why this would prevent you from reading the other files with more canonical implementations than the IORef hack 04:38:04 Because I thought the file named 'Pure' would be the purest implementation 04:38:05 (actually the IORef connection is fairly deep -- a supply of these name things is fundamentally what ST gives you) 04:38:25 (Vault and ST are roughly the same thing) 04:38:40 (you can implement an ST transformer as a state transformer using Vault and some other stuff, etc.) 04:39:55 * Sgeo reads http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/blog/2011/09/04-vault.html 04:40:01 Sgeo: in hdis86 the file named Pure is the one with the pure interface, and consequentially the most unsafePerformWhatever implementation 04:40:08 hip hip himonqy! 04:40:08 that post probably won't help you understand the primitives underlying this kind of thing 04:40:21 shachaf: ???????? 04:40:57 monqy: its the "monqy cheeer" 04:42:11 monqy: have you played the neverhood 04:42:35 no 04:42:41 havent you asked me that at least twice before 04:43:25 maybe i asked the 'old you" 04:43:35 IORef allows you to make (f :: ContT () IO x -> IO [x]) such that (f (return x) = return [x]) from what I can see. It seems to be the only case with ContT with IO monad; not with any other monads, as far as I can tell (except Finalize, which is trivial). 04:43:38 remember, you can't step in the same river twice, monqy 04:49:08 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:51:03 -!- Bike has joined. 04:58:39 shachaf: except the ankh, i just learned from that ship of theseus article 05:00:20 which article 05:00:29 wikipedia 05:05:52 -!- madbr has left. 05:07:24 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:08:46 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:21:07 -!- btiffin has joined. 05:21:48 Idea; The programming language with the most easter eggs. 05:22:28 yes 05:22:36 You can write on the esolang wiki list of ideas if you want to 05:22:56 Might do 05:23:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:29:22 Did, under Looks Like. I'll accept opinions on the cbrain article too. Just to get a feel for expectations. 05:29:42 Cont r IO x -> r -> IO (r, [x]) works too, I think, other than what I wrote above. 05:29:54 How much time should be spent on the useless? :-) 05:30:37 btiffin: I think the answer is :-) 05:31:03 giggles to self 05:31:13 dog noticed 05:33:01 Anyone try X10? I'm one make rule away from integration with OpenCOBOL, but wonder if that experiment should be suffered to live. 05:33:16 is that like x11 05:33:30 oh domotics 05:33:33 Nope, IBM Java umm C++ err thingy 05:33:42 "X10 is a protocol for communication among electronic devices used for home automation (domotics)."? 05:34:47 Yeah, it's used a lot, sorry. I mean this one http://x10-lang.org/ 05:35:21 X10 is a really low-bandwidth protocol as I recall. 05:36:03 20 bits per second 05:36:07 :) 05:36:14 Emits Java and C++, which means mucking about in the build chain with extern "C" when I want to play with COBOL 05:36:18 "X10 provides Java-like productivity with Java or C++ interoperability" i have no idea what this means 05:36:45 X10 emits either C++ and or Java 05:36:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:38:04 I only care about the C side really, never buying into the sandbox and being denied programmer hardware access. 05:38:42 It's not really correct to say "C gives you hardware access" if you're writing compliant C though... 05:39:04 ISO standard C is rather different from what people pretend C is. 05:39:20 but C has Blazing Fast Speed pikhq 05:40:01 Of course it won't give you hardware access if you are writing a portable program. 05:40:05 C-as-people-think is a "portable" assembly. C-as-it-is is basically a weird ludicrously old language that happens to be compilable without much overhead. 05:40:41 Yep, admitted as such by Dennis 05:41:22 reading him complain about gcc is the funniest shit 05:41:34 I mean, it works decently for what it is, but it's a language principally used because it's the language of choice for the lower-level APIs on all common OSes. 05:41:36 But, with C and the internet, you live in the same binary interface 05:42:03 Yep, the ABI is part of the thing, and C wins 05:42:40 for now, with this version of the network 05:42:50 what network, what 05:43:36 Well, C isn't assembly language; different computers are all differences. However some of the things in C are close to common things in different computers instruction sets, such as converting between a number and a pointer, and bitwise operations, and arithmetic operations. This makes it very portable, in general (although there may be some unusual cases). 05:44:11 take a look the TCP/IP code and you are not in Java 'jvm' space. It's the C ABI, pretty much top to bottom. Python and Perl and Ruby bits, all written in C etc. It's the common denominator of the internet 05:44:25 C didn't even have converting a pointer to a number until uintptr_t did it 05:44:54 And the only requirement on uintptr_t is that you can round-trip between uintptr_t and a pointer. 05:44:55 But it's also the stack frames and little-big end ordering and on and on. Pascal call frame order didn't win. C's did. 05:44:57 btiffin: shrug, that's just because of how those language runties work. you can write the wire protocol in something else if you want, people just don't. 05:45:36 A conformant implementation of the uintptr_t cast could xor the pointer with an arbitrary integer. 05:45:41 Ha. 05:46:12 True and actually in the field of course. Fortran web servers and lisp time servers, etc. But I'll stand by the statement, for now, the C ABI is the base. 05:46:35 Yeah, it's generally what OSes are built on. 05:47:00 tsk, near as i can tell nobody uses shared objects in very interesting ways though 05:47:03 Not because they should or must be, but just cause that's how it ended up. 05:48:45 Yes, it is true, C does not always have the properties I mentioned, although it is close enough to make it portable, the use of pointers on some computer may not be the same as on other computers, but it can always be used as C pointers, nevertheless. 05:49:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:49:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:51:23 But, it isn't a very esoteric idea, just an observation. cbrain is more fun and it'll never run anything. Sweet. 05:52:48 zzo38: The guarantees and lack-thereof in C are pretty fun. 05:53:25 revised⁹⁹ report on the algorithmic language c 06:01:03 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:01:29 -!- augur has joined. 06:08:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:15:44 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:21:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:52:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:53:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:12:47 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:28:20 -!- btiffin has left. 07:44:41 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:54:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:54:41 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 07:54:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:55:35 -!- btiffin has joined. 07:57:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:00:04 -!- btiffin has left. 08:07:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:16:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:37:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:42:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:47:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 08:54:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:59:57 -!- atriq has joined. 09:00:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:06:22 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 09:14:03 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:15:52 -!- DH____ has joined. 09:16:02 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:28:40 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:32:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:33:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:33:52 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:42:04 -!- carado has joined. 09:46:08 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:52:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:54:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:03:24 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 10:04:06 `which paste 10:04:09 ​/hackenv/bin/paste 10:04:19 `cat /hackenv/bin/paste 10:04:20 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ url paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ cat > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ else # Save making a file when it already exists. \ url "$1" \ fi 10:04:57 `which url 10:04:58 ​/hackenv/bin/url 10:05:05 `cat /hackenv/bin/url 10:05:06 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ print ("http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/" + \ urllib.quote(sys.argv[1])) 10:05:32 `ls 10:05:33 bin \ canary \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ wisdom 10:05:44 `url wisdom 10:05:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom 10:06:49 Fascinating 10:10:36 -!- nooga has joined. 10:25:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:32:57 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 10:37:52 What is a category called if all objects are isomorphic to each other? 10:45:51 -!- pumpkin has joined. 10:46:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:47:05 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 11:34:19 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:47:53 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:49:42 -!- carado has joined. 11:50:14 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:52:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:22:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:28:30 -!- boily has joined. 12:29:52 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 12:32:29 -!- boily has joined. 12:43:17 -!- fftw has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:46:28 -!- fftw has joined. 12:50:51 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:56:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:00:33 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:10:07 -!- ogrom has joined. 13:14:14 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:20:30 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 13:21:04 zzo38: equivalent to a monoid 13:21:30 Is this a topic for discussion? 13:21:43 I don't think zzo38 is equivalent to a monoid 13:21:48 fwiw 13:22:29 heh Taneb 13:22:37 Taneb: " What is a category called if all objects are isomorphic to each other?" 13:22:40 04-05 13:37 What is a category called if all objects are isomorphic to each other? 13:23:05 -!- joop has joined. 13:23:49 Taneb: what exactly is a monoid and how does one use one in a program? 13:24:07 I love monoids. They're so easy! 13:24:26 A monoid is basically a generalization of things you can append 13:24:39 And have a nothing that is the identity of appending 13:25:02 :/ 13:25:13 yeah that's a free monoid 13:25:23 a general monoid is that but you equate some elements 13:25:29 I am beginning to get the feeling that you have to use a monoid in order to understand what a monoid is. 13:25:42 Strings are monoids 13:25:50 Because you can stick two together 13:26:05 And also the empty string you can stick to anything and it doesn't change it 13:26:28 Numbers are monoids in at least two ways 13:26:57 a monoid is (S, f, 1), where 1 \in S, f is a binary function on S, that is, f : SxS -> S, and the laws f(f(a, b), c) = f(a, f(b, c)) and f(1, a) = a = f(a, 1) hold. 13:27:24 the law f(f(a, b), c) = f(a, f(b, c)) basically states that you can write ab for f(a, b) without confusion 13:27:33 because abc will be unambiguous 13:28:16 Ah, that's the commutative property 13:28:28 no 13:28:31 :/ 13:28:35 commutative is ab = ba 13:28:42 and it's basically orthogonal to this 13:28:43 oh, right, associative 13:28:47 this is called associativity yeah 13:28:47 ThatOtherPerson: "how do I use a monoid in a program" is the wrong question. "monoid" is a generic interface supported by multiple types. so if you just want an example of "using a monoid" then something totally boring like string concatenation suffices. but the right question is "what do I gain by identifying this generic interface and using it" 13:29:10 ThatOtherPerson, you know what a group is, yeah? 13:29:53 Taneb: I do now 13:30:11 A monoid is a group without inverse 13:31:09 kmc: Ah, thanks. I just had no idea what a monoid was :D 13:31:31 can we uplift strings to a group, and have negative strings? 13:31:53 anyway when i said monoid up there, i meant the category theory definition, which means a category with a single object; in a category with a single object, the morphisms form a monoid in the sense i defined above. 13:31:55 I'm still not completely sure "what ... I gain by identifying this generic interface and using it" 13:32:08 it's the same with monads. easy to explain how IO or Maybe or lists work, somewhat harder to explain what they have in common and why we have a generic interface to all of them 13:32:17 but definitely harder still if you don't distinguish these goals 13:32:51 ThatOtherPerson: you can write a method that takes a list of values from a monoid, and appends them in that order. this generalizes both concatenating a list of lists and adding a list of numbers. 13:33:03 ThatOtherPerson: edwardk has this 'finger tree' data structure library which keeps an annotation at each layer of the tree 13:33:11 the annotation is allowed to be any type supporting the monoid interface 13:33:20 because all you need to do is combine annotations of subtrees 13:33:52 Oh, right. That sounds awesome. 13:34:54 Similar to how Python generalizes the "sequence" interface 13:35:00 yeah 13:35:17 except that in Python interfaces are basically implicit and exist in documentation only 13:35:28 right 13:35:33 whereas Haskell has this "type classes" feature for making the language aware of them 13:35:44 of course you could standardize a monoid interface in Python too 13:35:53 or a Java interface or a C++ abstract base class 13:36:30 but it might be one of those cases where the abstraction is worth it in Haskell, because the language is so expressive, and not worth it it other languages 13:36:37 that seems to be the case with monads anyway 13:37:27 btw to be pedantic above, a moniod isn't a group without an inverse, it's a group which doesn't *necessarily* have an inverse, i.e. having an inverse is not part of the definition of 'monoid'. but every group is a monoid as well 13:37:57 It's a group where you don't care if it has an inverse or not 13:38:59 ThatOtherPerson: another fun monoid is functions from a type to that same type, functions with type like A -> A 13:39:26 -!- augur has joined. 13:39:28 you can combine two of these functions by composing them, which is associative 13:39:49 and the identity function is your identity element 13:39:56 beacuse (f . id) = (id . f) = f 13:41:29 ^ and that's actually a category with a single object, that is, a category theoretical monoid 13:41:53 Wait, in Haskell, can you do something like `new_function = (f1 . f2)` 13:41:57 the category has one object, the type A, and the morphisms are the functions from A to A 13:42:08 of course you can 13:42:13 ah 13:42:25 My understanding of Haskell just incremented 13:42:37 well you can do it in python, so obviously you can do it in haskell 13:42:42 erm 13:42:45 ? 13:42:45 Haskell has a very light-weight syntax when it comes to defining functions 13:43:14 oklofok: python doesn't have a composition operator 13:43:37 I never even knew a language had a composition operator until 3 minutes ago 13:43:55 well okay python doesn't allow you to make new operators, but that's just a syntax thing 13:43:57 today's problem is more interesting! http://imgur.com/5Z57Z4P 13:44:03 of course in Haskell the composition operator doesn't need to be built in, it's just part of the standard library 13:44:34 makes sense 13:44:35 you can write f = dot(f1, f2) in python 13:44:36 > let (...) f g x = f (g x) in (show ... succ) 5 13:44:37 "6" 13:44:40 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:44:53 ThatOtherPerson: now that you know what monoids are, I can try to explain what a category is, if you don't know 13:45:00 since categories are a generalization of monoids 13:45:05 kmc: okay, thanks! 13:45:19 the only difference is "." is a valid name for a function in haskell, and it's interpreted as an operator so it's called by writing "f1 . f2". 13:45:44 oklofok: ah, okay 13:45:45 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:46:13 okay well we said that if set S is a monoid, then you can combine any two elements of S 13:46:22 if S is a category, then there are some restrictions on which elements you can combine 13:47:11 if S is a category then every element of S has what i'm going to call a "type", which is written in the form A -> B 13:47:47 (this doesn't mean they are functions, although they might be; it's really just a pair (A,B) of symbols drawn from some set of types) 13:48:03 (elements in kmc's text are what i have been calling morphisms, and types in kmc's are what i called objects, just in case you've read my text) 13:48:26 and we still have an associative binary operator, but you can only use it when the types are like A -> B and B -> C 13:48:51 and rather than a single identity element, you have one of type A -> A for every A 13:49:25 yeah I'm using nonstandrad terminology for the moment, because I think the standard terminology is confusing from a programming perspective 13:50:02 when i see "object" i expect it to be one of the elements of the set we can compose stuff from, but it actually means the alphabet we're drawing types from 13:50:05 anyway 13:50:34 so, one kinda obvious example of a category is the set of all functions 13:50:45 so guys imagine I'm in a labyrinth 13:50:55 and I need to remember in what part of the labyrinth I am to know what strategy use 13:50:59 whereas monoids only let us talk about functions like A -> A, categories have all the machinery to say which functions compose with which other ones (not by coincidence) 13:51:03 how many ways to program that? 13:51:22 also every monoid is a category with only one type 13:51:32 ("object" in standard terminology) 13:51:54 say you are alerted whenever you change parts, but that's all 13:51:55 -!- joop has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:52:09 so you could use different functions for different parts, and swap functions when you change 13:52:35 (kmc: i didn't mean your terminology is bad, just wanted to point out we are talking about the same thing.) 13:52:37 or you could say "when you change, start drawing signs on the wall and keep drawing as long as there are drwings here 13:52:42 other ideas? 13:53:11 (in case ThatOtherPerson read both and wondered what i was going on about.) 13:54:21 yeah 13:54:46 i'll brb, i'll let other people give examples of other interesting categories though 13:54:57 okay, thanks! 13:55:11 i'm told that category theory is really about natural transformations, and categories and functors are just preliminaries to get there 13:55:15 but I don't know much about that 13:55:36 (in other words how many ways do you have to remember the current state when you're implementing a cellular automaton) 13:57:09 we're currently writing an article about the category of cellular automata 13:57:20 -!- aloril has joined. 13:58:04 the elements are cellular automata, the types are a bit hard to explain 13:58:11 oklofok: so for instance http://imgur.com/5Z57Z4P 13:58:38 looks like robozzle 13:58:46 to solve this you'd need a cellular automaton that'd say "until you've reached the orange square, go forward" 13:59:00 and then "once you've passed the orange square, move in a staircase pattern" 13:59:01 can you have just a single head that moves about? 13:59:07 yes 13:59:09 because to me that sounds more like a turing machien 13:59:12 turing machine 13:59:18 hmm, right 13:59:30 but the problem is: I have no "write" command 13:59:37 so finite automata 13:59:43 yup 13:59:51 i have written a survey on this topic >P 13:59:52 so how do I know if I have passed the orange square yet? 13:59:53 :P 14:00:02 survey on picture-walking automata 14:00:15 have to go to the shop 14:02:25 oklofok: is that you? http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-642-24897-9_9?LI=true 14:09:09 i'm the latter author yeah 14:10:38 but err 14:11:11 the survey is not on your actual question, just on the general topic 14:11:14 but lemme look 14:11:35 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 14:12:13 oh okay that's some kind of picture walking PDA, and i think i've solved this exact problem on robozzle 14:12:23 PDA = finite state automaton with a stack 14:12:34 then the survey is not really on topic, sorry 14:13:15 oklofok: yeah I found out about the stack by accident 14:13:16 or something 14:13:19 so it worked out 14:13:35 the model of robozzle is very interesting, i dunno if it's been studied 14:13:49 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:13:51 basically I forgot that the remainder of the function would accumulate if I don't reach it 14:14:14 so I could do something like "while you haven't reached the orange square, don't do the second part of the function" 14:14:18 Has anyone yet ported Piet to the Pi? 14:14:21 that is, loop on the first part 14:14:39 and when I'm done looping I've left with a not-loop of many many copies of the end of the function 14:14:45 that felt weird 14:14:46 then again even in the theory of picture-walking finite state automata a lot of basic questions are open so dunno if you'd get much out of a more complicated model 14:14:56 but the game is fun ofc 14:15:19 Koen_: yeah that's the natural solution 14:15:34 much easier with an actual stack 14:17:11 Koen_: what is that game called? 14:17:21 it's called fourth test for 42 14:17:28 and it lasts 4 hours 14:17:43 I did the first 9 levels in 20 minutes 14:17:49 then spent 40 minutes on the tenth 14:17:56 now I'm on the 12th 14:18:10 (the one I showed you is then 10th) 14:18:42 oh right 14:18:53 of course this is one of the puzzles 14:19:03 the third test was counting dots not unlike your thing 14:19:12 haha 14:19:30 (I think the purpose of the first three tests was to test my patience) 14:21:33 so as i mentioned, i know this game under the name robozzle, and it's awesome 14:22:18 yeah 14:23:37 we played it with fizzie some years ago 14:31:55 oklofok: try that one http://imgur.com/ZbbVJum 14:32:53 yay, my seerpak arrived 14:33:45 I remember robozzle. 14:34:25 coppro, I ordered the physical copy :/ 14:34:50 fizzie: have you solved puzzle number 1075? 14:35:04 Koen_: i have to solve 1075 first. 14:35:28 I don't know what this is all about. 14:35:35 what's 1075 14:35:49 Taneb: I wanted to throw money at the thing and the tarot deck is awesome 14:36:01 coppro, I didn't have money at the time 14:36:15 But kinda wanted a physical copy 14:36:24 Because I'd lose the digital download :/ 14:37:27 haha 14:37:38 I have an email label where I stash download links like that 14:40:25 fizzie: 1075 in robozzle. 14:49:25 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:57:02 -!- conehead has joined. 14:57:30 Probably not. I haven't touched Robozzle "since then". 15:00:47 `run date then 15:00:49 date: invalid date `then' 15:02:24 `run grep -v '^#' /etc/locale.gen 15:02:26 grep: /etc/locale.gen: No such file or directory 15:02:48 `run echo $LANG 15:02:49 en_NZ.UTF-8 15:03:05 `run LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 date 15:03:06 2013年 4月 5日 金曜日 15:03:06 UTC 15:03:23 `run LANG=fr_CA.UTF-8 date 15:03:25 vendredi 5 avril 2013, 15:03:24 (UTC+0000) 15:07:42 LogicT is ALMOST a special case of ContT 15:07:44 Aargh 15:08:53 Alas, m (r -> r) /~ m r -> m r 15:09:12 :t (/~) 15:09:13 Not in scope: `/~' 15:09:14 Perhaps you meant one of these: 15:09:14 `/' (imported from Prelude), `/=' (imported from Data.Eq), 15:09:55 I'm trying to say "are not sort of equivalent" 15:10:41 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:11:18 Taneb: something like ≁? 15:11:29 Yeah 15:11:39 Except my keyboard has less than a thousand buttons 15:11:56 -!- yiyus has joined. 15:19:20 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:21:32 "What kind of lame keyboard is that?" 15:22:45 It's a LAME 1701 keyboard 15:23:28 a "Lasers Are Much Easier" model 1701 keyboard 15:24:09 Oh, some sort of projection thing? 15:24:22 An astral projection keyboard. 15:24:44 I believe so, but we should ask Taneb to make sure 15:25:05 Yeah, it's kind of uncomfortable to type with 15:27:57 LogicT is a special case of Codensity, but not of ContT 15:28:06 ContT is also a special case of Codensity 15:31:08 -!- atriq has joined. 15:31:27 LogicT is a better kind of list monad transformer than ListT (which doesn't work). 15:31:46 atriq: Hey! How have you been? 15:32:04 The future 15:32:04 atriq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 15:32:08 @messages 15:32:08 oerjan asked 1d 17h 5m 5s ago: Trivia: I have a cousin who is just like me, except Australian and somehow less awesome. <-- they live in one of the other two Hexhams, right? 15:32:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:32:26 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 15:32:40 SHAPESHIFTER 15:33:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:33:20 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:39:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:45:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:49:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:51:28 ramdom request: could somebody ping 2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 ? 15:53:38 -!- calamari has joined. 15:53:53 It does not seem to answer to me. 15:53:59 -!- calamari has left. 15:54:15 A random other v6 address -- 2a00:1450:400f:800::1002, one of what google.com resolves to -- does. 16:04:14 -!- Bike has joined. 16:11:57 hey oklofok 16:12:04 i have a maths question i need to ask you 16:12:44 -!- mig22 has joined. 16:26:01 -!- mig22 has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:31:51 go ahead 16:43:03 the answer is 42 anyway 16:49:51 “Are you gay?” “42.” 16:49:53 (Maths) 16:50:02 How many trees can you fit into a square? 16:51:45 the so called tree-packing-bound. 16:52:20 where a tree is actually just a sphere connected to a cylinder. 16:52:24 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:52:52 *into a cube 17:02:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:08:36 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:10:49 oklopol, oh, you replied 17:11:16 uh, what do you call a space that's made of subsets of the euclidean space glued together so the entire thing isn't isometric to any euclidean subset 17:11:39 people keep calling it 'non-euclidean' but i don't think that's accurate 17:12:17 well 'non-euclidean' is roughly the vaguest term ever so 17:12:30 true 17:12:44 but definitely it's not euclidean less the parallel postulate 17:13:19 even if parallel lines met or whatever, 'non-euclidean' woldn't really narrow it down, i mean 17:14:06 i know what you meant, Bike 17:14:37 anyway i have no idea about the actual answer 17:16:23 so err, do you mean a simplicial complex which cannot be embedded in R^n for any n? 17:16:31 sorry, i don't know a name for this 17:17:12 actually what you describe sounds more like a manifold 17:18:01 also 17:18:17 now that i think about it, i do know a name for a simplicial complex which cannot be embedded in R^n for any n 17:18:37 such a simplicial complex is referred to as "nonexistent" 17:19:13 but of course if you fix a dimension, then this can happen, and anything can happen with manifolds ofc. 17:19:41 in any case i don't have any nontrivial answers, but non-euclidean sounds wrong to me too 17:19:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:19:46 it's not a topological question 17:21:59 -!- Bike has joined. 17:32:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:33:14 ~metar CYUL 17:33:15 CYUL 051700Z 28018KT 15SM FEW050 FEW080 06/M02 A2983 RMK SC1AC1 CU EMBD SLP103 17:36:07 What city is CYUL? 17:38:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:40:20 -!- monqy has joined. 17:44:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYUL probably 17:45:21 (otoh, since wikipedia has so much contents about canada - maybe everything on wikipedia is just made up?) 17:52:40 @tell zzo38 Montréal. 17:52:40 Consider it noted. 17:53:17 olsner: welcome to wikipedia, where canada is made up and weather doesn't matter. (but tim hortons does, eh) 17:58:26 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:58:52 -!- augur has joined. 17:59:00 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:59:29 -!- augur has joined. 18:02:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:03:32 -!- 18WAC8WUR has joined. 18:08:07 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:23:14 -!- calamari has joined. 18:23:30 how do i read ~metar output 18:25:03 partial infos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METAR 18:25:13 useful tool: http://www.metarreader.com/ 18:25:14 I've used the http://www.flyingineurope.be/metar_taf_decode.htm table. 18:25:31 (One needs to scroll past the TAF bit.) 18:25:52 ~metar EFHK 18:25:52 EFHK 051820Z 36006KT CAVOK 04/M04 Q1012 NOSIG 18:26:07 Ooh, still above freezing. 18:27:05 today we had snow, rain, hail, snow and rain, wind... 18:27:28 Lately it's been so that it's -10 to -5 °C in the night, but somethin above +5 °C in the day, so during the day all the snow and ice melts, then at night it freezes again, and in the morning there's patches of mirror-polished ice everywhere. 18:28:35 ~metar ESSA 18:28:36 ESSA 051820Z 01006KT CAVOK M00/M08 Q1017 R88/09//95 NOSIG 18:30:05 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 18:33:31 fizzie: same here 18:33:39 M00, says the cow. 18:33:58 Perhaps you should clear the cows out the runway. 18:34:16 flying cows? 18:35:04 if the cows could fly away they wouldn't be as much of a problem 18:35:40 Joining mid-conversation and trying to figure out what is going on is always such fun 18:36:24 metar lead to canada, more metar and cows 18:39:06 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 18:39:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:42:34 `addquote metar lead to canada, more metar and cows 18:42:39 1011) metar lead to canada, more metar and cows 18:42:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:45:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:47:15 Phantom_Hoover: oh well err if you want an actual isometry, then it's possible that not all simplicial complexes can be embedded. 18:47:28 or what did you mean by the question not being topological 18:47:48 That's what I meant. 18:49:35 ~metar KBOS 18:49:36 KBOS 051754Z 25007KT 10SM SCT050 SCT070 BKN150 12/M03 A2973 RMK AO2 SLP068 T01171033 10122 20050 58041 18:49:46 how should I learn how to read this 18:49:56 okay so if you take an equilatelar triangle with the metric obtained from gluing three intervals with their natural metric metric then i suppose it doesn't embed in R^n for any n 18:50:04 *-metric 18:50:24 that uh 18:50:27 is probably not what i meant 18:50:31 yeah probably 18:51:02 that seems like kind of a fucking weird metric 18:51:08 yes 18:51:22 usually you don't metrize simplicial complices 18:51:27 like this 18:51:32 kmc: 19:23:30 how do i read ~metar output 18:51:32 19:25:03 partial infos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METAR 18:51:32 19:25:13 useful tool: http://www.metarreader.com/ 18:51:32 19:25:14 I've used the http://www.flyingineurope.be/metar_taf_decode.htm table. 18:51:35 19:25:31 (One needs to scroll past the TAF bit.) 18:51:58 but this is the natural metric in some sense, imo 18:52:18 i can see the logic but it still seems fucking weird 18:53:17 yeah the idea was that to measure the distance between points in different components, you make the shortest path which is affine on each simplex and add up the lengths 18:53:29 dunno if people do this 18:53:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:53:57 oh right wait i just realised why doing this with isometries is probably impossible 18:54:19 why? 18:54:36 well, it's awkward for the reasons you described 18:54:55 basically what i mean is the sort of trickery showcased in this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xFbRecjKQA 18:55:14 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 18:56:55 cool 18:58:50 antichamber is probably a better example but i couldn't be bothered finding a video 19:02:19 -!- 18WAC8WUR has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:03:19 anti- or antechamber? 19:03:27 I wonder if the little cube you have to crawl through is a deliberate Prey joke. 19:03:55 anti 19:05:28 Is this a game I should bother with 19:06:21 yes 19:06:24 yes it is 19:06:40 How much does it cost 19:07:18 18 IIRC. 19:09:16 18!!!? 19:10:09 oh come on, it's less than 20 sandwiches 19:11:30 Not if you buy really cheap sandwiches! 19:11:41 Either those are some amazingly inexpensive sandwiches, or that's not a very useful comparison. 19:12:07 Also, I don't have a Windows computer at the moment 19:12:24 can hoovers eat sandwiches 19:12:33 we can hoover them 19:12:37 if they're sufficiently small 19:12:45 maybe that's where the price confusion is coming from 19:13:29 Gregor: or perhaps both? 19:15:03 So I'd have to convince my brother to let me use his computer to play a weird game 19:15:22 Taneb: It'll probably work under wine *shrugs* 19:15:32 (This assumption based on nothing but wine's overall success rate) 19:16:27 For that I'd need to overcome the Chinese Graphics Card Problem IV: I Thought I Had Fixed It But Nooooo 19:17:09 So #esoteric folks, what should I do with my Nexus 10 tablet? 19:17:10 did you get a new graphics card but woops it was chinese too 19:17:22 thats racist monqy 19:17:37 yes 19:17:48 maybe we are all racist monqy 19:18:07 monqy, the first graphics card came from a bootleg website and came with a manual only in Chinese 19:18:33 why did you get it if it was from a bootleg website 19:18:38 that sounds like a bad idea 19:18:49 I know that now. 19:18:56 schoolboy error there 19:19:10 The second I think is legitimate 19:19:16 I just suck at graphics cards drivers 19:19:27 And also my brother stole my screen so I can't fix it 19:19:45 -!- AndGregor has joined. 19:20:03 AndGregor, do you know Gregor? 19:20:07 How do I tablet??? 19:20:21 imo you should be able to use that for leverage to play antichamber on his computer 19:20:44 I probs could without him noticing 19:20:48 `welcome AndGregor 19:20:50 AndGregor: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:21:08 I'm Gregor you dopes X-D 19:21:18 (Confirmed) 19:24:50 as long as you don't multiply like tribbles and andtribbles, everything is fine. 19:25:58 I'm just trying to figure out what to do with a tablet PC. 19:26:15 Write a novel 19:26:26 I think you like paint or something 19:26:27 About cuboids invading Edinburgh 19:26:28 chisel your poems in it, like a real tablet! 19:26:39 i've never figured out what tablet pc`s are for 19:26:52 Neither do I... 19:26:57 Err 19:27:02 "tablet PC" or new style tablet a la iPad? 19:27:03 Neither have I... 19:27:11 I think they're like laptops but more so 19:27:11 They're for selling, obviously 19:27:39 new style tablet mainly....laptop with a tablet-y screen makes sense at least 19:27:52 monqy: they're for demonstrating that you have lots of disposable income 19:28:22 also for having a web browsing device that just works 19:28:28 Tablet PCs are for checking your email, IRC and stuff during dinner when you can access a real computer 19:28:37 i.e. not running Windows 19:28:50 At least that's what I use mine for 19:28:53 Apple could just sell laptops with iOS on them, but then they wouldn't make as much money 19:29:08 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 19:29:13 could sell laptops with macos on them 19:29:14 well if you sell a alptop with iOS on it you might as well sell a laptop with OS X on it instead 19:29:17 *laptop 19:29:33 since iOS is basically OS X with a simplified interface designed for a device that isn't based around a keyboard and pointer device 19:29:37 elliott: no because the iOS is less likely to break, by virtue of doing fewer things and being totally locked down 19:29:57 well, I don't think macbook airs that people use for web browsing or whatever have a reputation of breaking 19:30:12 imo make another version thats even more locked down and sell clothing with it installed 19:30:18 You can just about get away with using a tablet PC in the pub. No chance of using a laptop in the pub. 19:30:41 brain implant. now you are the iOS 19:31:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:32:14 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Bye). 19:32:17 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:32:40 -!- augur has joined. 19:33:24 THEN WHO WAS PHONE 19:33:35 I 19:33:45 I WAS PHONE 19:34:28 * oerjan shoots Taneb 19:34:42 I AM NO LONGER PHONE 19:34:57 OF COURSE NOT, YOU ARE DEAD 19:36:04 THIS IS PROBLEMATIC 19:36:26 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:36:53 -!- augur has joined. 19:38:43 * ThatOtherPerson WAVES HANDS. TANEB IS NO LONGER DEDD. 19:38:48 NO PROBLEM. 19:39:46 This is an Android tablet, a Nexus 10. 19:39:56 But yeah. 19:40:11 Kinda makes me wonder what tablets are for. 19:41:15 Tablets are for people to sell to other people. 19:41:21 can we uplift strings to a group, and have negative strings? <-- yes. 19:41:41 I indeed said that. now on to understand what I said. 19:41:48 ~duck negative string 19:41:49 --- No relevant information 19:42:48 boily: see: free group. strings are already a free monoid. 19:43:03 this is why 19:43:06 something 19:43:13 i typed "this is why" into my irc client and then got distracted 19:43:20 Someone needs to write a Core War app for Android. And a decent Forth interpreter. And a decent personal wiki. 19:43:59 write all three in one 19:44:39 That'd be something like Smalltalk 19:44:42 kmc: maybe you meant to say "this is why 19:45:25 " 19:45:35 ) 19:45:48 :)))))))))))))) 19:46:03 ::::D 19:46:43 fuck you 19:47:15 :3333333 19:48:04 fuck. you. 19:48:31 ŏ_Ô? 19:48:37 Phantom_Hoover: the caps lock is to the left of the "A" on your keyboard 19:49:21 End of year stock take :-( 19:55:05 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:58:30 ThatOtherPerson: edwardk has this 'finger tree' data structure library which keeps an annotation at each layer of the tree <-- afaict edwardk is neither the inventor nor maintainer of the fingertree package 19:59:52 oerjan: when in doubt, say edwardk did it. 20:00:05 maybe it was ezyang, also starts with an e 20:00:13 oh 20:00:16 i guess i am wrong 20:00:20 i thought that because I saw him give a talk about it 20:00:24 but my memory is hazy 20:00:40 kmc: he probably would have invented it if no one had done already, right 20:01:15 (actually finger trees are probably not category based enough for that) 20:01:31 wait since when did trees have fingers 20:01:43 elliott: YOUR PICTURE PLZ 20:01:56 Or do these trees have servers which answer to the finger protocol? 20:01:59 um let me find it 20:02:40 http://i.imgur.com/sRyCi.png 20:02:43 ThatOtherPerson, finger trees are a cool kind of tree 20:02:48 did monqy see the finger tree 20:02:57 Taneb: cool trees sound cool 20:03:46 Oh, thank you for that image, now I know exactly what a finger tree looks like! 20:03:56 yep 20:04:27 elliott: yeah i have 20:04:31 it's a good tree 20:04:41 reminds me of my arms dream 20:04:48 mm mm arms 20:04:58 http://www.soi.city.ac.uk/~ross/papers/FingerTree.html 20:05:58 Taneb: I do not believe that is truly what a finger tree is; it is much to boring; I am sticking with elliott's interpretation 20:06:04 *much too 20:07:06 elliott: pfff 20:07:07 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:07:38 every time I see it I am just reminded at how much of a pain GIMP made it to make 20:08:40 Taneb: on second thought, elliott just blasphemed against GIMP. I shall now study that URL you posted in great detail. 20:08:58 have you ever used GIMP 20:09:00 fun fact: it's kind of awful 20:09:21 Of course I have used GIMP 20:09:23 elliott, 2.8 is a bit better 20:09:24 Wait, in Haskell, can you do something like `new_function = (f1 . f2)` <-- in principle that's good, but there's an obstacle you sometimes hit that's called the "monomorphism restriction". 20:09:25 as well as Photoshop 20:09:38 I like both 20:09:51 oerjan, he's not ready to hear about the monomorphism restriction 20:09:57 i don't like either 20:10:06 D: 20:10:11 there are several ways to get around it, though, including an option to turn it off entirely 20:10:24 Sgeo: remember newLISP 20:10:25 Taneb: which is why i didn't explain what it was duh 20:10:36 -!- AndGregor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:10:46 duh duh duh DUHM 20:10:51 -!- AndGregor has joined. 20:11:05 however it's relevant here because one of the ways to get around is to use functions with explicit arguments. 20:11:13 *it is 20:11:25 -!- AndGregor has quit (Client Quit). 20:11:37 elliott: Is there any photo editing software that you do like? 20:11:43 so when you use new_function = ... a lot you are much more likely to hit it 20:11:46 CorelDraw 20:11:47 duh 20:12:00 ThatOtherPerson: no 20:12:12 but I guess I like gimp the least 20:12:30 elliott: You are in a sad position, and have my pity. 20:12:32 ;D 20:14:06 -!- carado has joined. 20:18:04 i'm told that category theory is really about natural transformations, and categories and functors are just preliminaries to get there 20:18:11 yeah there's a famous quote 20:19:09 'Saunders Mac Lane, one of the founders of category theory, is said to have remarked, "I didn't invent categories to study functors; I invented them to study natural transformations."' 20:21:40 `? category theory 20:21:41 category theory? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:22:02 `learn Category theory is the theory of categories. 20:22:06 I knew that. 20:22:18 that should clear things up. 20:22:33 oops 20:22:35 `revert 20:22:38 Done. 20:23:03 `run echo "Category theory is the theory of categories." >wisdom/'category theory' 20:23:06 No output. 20:23:13 `? category theory 20:23:15 Category theory is the theory of categories. 20:23:30 is there also a category of theories? 20:24:32 hm quite possibly 20:24:44 i don't know about it though 20:24:58 and theory might have several meanings 20:25:19 in category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories 20:30:23 `slist 20:30:25 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 20:30:28 `addquote in category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories 20:30:32 1012) in category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories 20:32:08 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:34:48 -!- Qkac has joined. 20:35:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:35:29 Taneb: retcooooonnnnnnnnnn 20:35:57 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:36:52 Taneb: his hand wasn't there the whole time, was it? Did I just not notice somehow? 20:38:17 ThatOtherPerson: no 20:38:19 look at the image URLs 20:38:31 coppro: I know, heh ;D 20:38:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:40:20 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:42:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:46:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:47:51 Not in scope: `/~' 20:47:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:47:58 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 20:48:17 /~ is obviously the non-MonadState variant of /= 20:48:25 :t (/=) 20:48:27 Eq a => a -> a -> Bool 20:48:32 AH 20:48:50 ion: hm that may be why it isn't defined, since the corresponding /= cannot be 20:49:56 > (pi,exp 1) & _1 ^~ (/) ?? 2 -- will this have the right fixities? 20:49:58 No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral (a0 -> a0 -> a0)) 20:49:58 arising from a use ... 20:50:11 > (pi,exp 1) & _1 ^~ ((/) ?? 2) -- will this have the right fixities? 20:50:13 No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral (b0 -> b0)) 20:50:13 arising from a use of `Co... 20:50:16 oops 20:50:25 :t (^~) 20:50:27 (Integral e, Num a) => ASetter s t a a -> e -> s -> t 20:50:32 oh duh 20:50:40 > (pi,exp 1) & _1 %~ (/) ?? 2 -- will this have the right fixities? 20:50:43 (*Exception: showsPrec: No overloading for function 20:50:47 wat 20:50:49 wat 20:50:59 > (pi,exp 1) & _1 %~ ((/) ?? 2) -- will this have the right fixities? 20:51:01 (1.5707963267948966,2.718281828459045) 20:51:16 isn't that just (/2) 20:51:17 apparently not 20:51:47 elliott: well yes, but i was trying to separate / and 2 20:51:54 which i guess failed 20:51:54 ok 20:52:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:55:53 oerjan: 20:55:55 :t (//~) 20:55:56 :t (//=) 20:55:56 Fractional a => ASetter s t a a -> a -> s -> t 20:55:58 (Fractional a, MonadState s m) => ASetter' s a -> a -> m () 20:56:36 uh, what do you call a space that's made of subsets of the euclidean space glued together so the entire thing isn't isometric to any euclidean subset 20:56:56 isometric is, as it turns out, the wrong word 20:57:15 i think isometric is fine? 20:58:08 given that you seem to say the _geometry_ is locally euclidean, not just the topology 20:58:23 (if the latter, the word you want is "manifold") 21:07:49 grmbl i was sure there would be a word for this from complex branch cut theory, but they just use riemann surfaces, which is too general 21:08:06 (looking at wikipedia) 21:11:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_surface#Parabolic_Riemann_surfaces is too specific i think 21:11:33 although i'd think curvature 0 is something you want 21:18:13 -!- Qkac has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:22:28 if the cows could fly away they wouldn't be as much of a problem <-- i dunno, getting a cow flying into your jet engine would probably suck 21:25:36 -!- Regis__ has joined. 21:26:26 Phantom_Hoover: anyway i am still imagining complex branch cuts here; like with f(z) = sqrt(z) you have to go twice around the origin to return to the same place 21:27:24 or rather, the surfaces you need to define the functions on in order not to have cuts. 21:27:34 or multiple values. 21:28:45 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:30:55 For that I'd need to overcome the Chinese Graphics Card Problem IV: I Thought I Had Fixed It But Nooooo 21:31:06 this is another esolang name suggestion, right? 21:50:49 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:52:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:05:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 22:17:31 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 22:26:10 -!- augur has joined. 22:47:13 french porn spam, now on esolang 22:48:25 Is it hot? 22:48:46 tres haute 22:52:36 oerjan: you sound like an expert. want to handle it? 22:53:15 If the French porn is free, save some for me. 22:54:28 i used to be a pert, but now i'm out of shape 22:55:33 Guys, I might have a problem. 22:55:39 I wrote... yet another Brainfuck interpreter. 22:56:25 i think yabi may already exist 22:57:15 That IS a problem. 23:07:55 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 23:17:50 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 23:21:18 -!- boily has joined. 23:22:06 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 23:30:06 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:41:20 -!- clog_ has joined. 23:47:03 elliott, why are you randomly mentioning newLisp to me? 23:48:09 i found a log with newlisp talk in it 23:49:01 oh man, newLisp 23:49:06 Sgeo: remember newLisp? 23:49:37 * Sgeo thinks it would be good for a codenomic but not necessarily much else 23:51:46 -!- monqy has joined. 23:51:56 hi monqy 2013-04-06: 00:17:04 `slist 00:17:05 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:24:34 `ls bin/*list* 00:24:35 ls: cannot access bin/*list*: No such file or directory 00:24:41 `run ls bin/*list* 00:24:43 bin/emptylist \ bin/instalist \ bin/list \ bin/listen \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist 00:31:44 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:46 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:46 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- bengt_ has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- iamcal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 00:31:47 -!- kyyni has quit (*.net *.split). 00:33:08 -!- boily has joined. 00:33:25 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 00:34:57 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 00:35:08 -!- boily has joined. 00:35:22 -!- boily has left. 00:35:26 -!- boily has joined. 00:35:58 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 00:36:43 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:48:07 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:57:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:19:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:31:38 -!- augur has joined. 01:32:08 -!- Regis__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:38:15 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 01:38:15 -!- Jafet has joined. 01:39:39 I thought logreading was punishable by apathy. 01:39:46 remember the tiny lisps craze 01:39:47 or maybe not even tiny but 01:39:47 idk 01:39:47 newlisp, picolisp, zepto 01:39:47 remember zeptobot, remember news-ham 01:39:50 is that like a nomic, or 01:40:16 microkernel nanokernel femtokernel 01:40:18 exokernel goes somewhere in there 01:40:42 -!- 66MAAH5NI has joined. 01:41:11 I think we need yoctokernels. 01:42:32 -!- 66MAAH5NI has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:42:44 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 01:42:55 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 01:43:42 Exokernel Mustard returning to the Library with the Gadget 01:43:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 01:43:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:44:02 why do people pronounce "colonel" as "krnl" 01:44:47 The linux colonel 01:45:11 Proof Colonel 01:46:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:47:02 shachaf: that's what happens when the english military conspires to pronounce french probably 01:54:12 Bike: why would anybody try to pronounce french 01:55:12 (19:54) Because the French are masochists. 01:55:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:57:39 PING 01:59:17 -!- boily has joined. 01:59:17 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:59:17 -!- fizzie has joined. 01:59:17 -!- Fiora has joined. 01:59:17 -!- bengt_ has joined. 01:59:17 -!- kyyni has joined. 01:59:17 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 01:59:17 -!- Deewiant has joined. 01:59:17 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 02:00:43 (20:00) Welcome back from the split. 02:01:16 The character of Green has been given two different personas in the Cluedo world. Originally patented as The Rev. Mr. Green, in Britain, he is Reverend Green, a hypocritical vicar who weakens when it comes to the Sixth commandment, murder. In North America, he is Mr. Green, who has taken many money-oriented roles from mobster to businessman. Parker Brothers insisted on the name change as they thought the American public would object to a ... 02:01:22 ... parson being a murder suspect.[1] He rolls fourth in the game. 02:01:52 the sixth commandment, murder 02:02:20 Ugh, only Portlanders would be stupid enough to fight flouridation of water X_X 02:02:35 http://slbkbs.org/fluids.jpg 02:02:46 Seen in Palo Alto, Calif. 02:03:00 Gregor: you sure about that 02:03:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unholy_three_cropped.png POLIO MONKEY SERUMS 02:03:47 OK, OK X-D 02:03:50 Gregor: https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-March/034990.html san francisco 02:04:14 I like "USED BY NAZIS" 02:04:14 p. good thread, somebody brings up 9-11 trutherism as a hyperbolic troll and then they discuss that seriously for a while 02:04:33 WATER: USED BY NAZIS 02:04:40 ostensibly to prevent tooth decay (dubious) 02:04:57 -!- augur has joined. 02:05:19 I heard flouridation is pointless, which sounds more plausible than it lowering IQ and turning you into a nazi 02:05:33 nazi shmatzi 02:06:24 http://jpelectron.com/sample/Electronics/PC-%20SCSI%20-%20Connectors.gif the great thing about SCSI connectors is that there are so many to choose from 02:07:33 the great ting about monoids is that they are so easy to choose from 02:07:36 thing 02:08:17 elliott: don't you need some kind of axiom for that 02:09:17 it's called the axiom of choice because everyone prefers it to the other axioms 02:11:28 check out my new axiom, axiom of choice 02:12:17 the axiom of choice for the discerning mathematician 02:12:49 kmc++ 02:13:06 shachaf: isn't that the axiom of comprehension 02:13:19 oh, that's a lyrics 02:17:00 kmc: oh man this thread is gold 02:17:13 kmc: the guy's response to everyone who says he's an idiot is to criticise them for top-posting first 02:17:17 that is the funniest thing to me 02:17:19 hahaha 02:17:58 toxic at the cellular level 02:18:25 i also like the email 02:18:28 dhtmlkitchen 02:18:39 i gather that noisebridge has been overrun with hobos and crazies and also they spent all their money and nobody knows how 02:18:58 hopefully nobody on this list thinks that three steel skyscraper can just 02:18:58 all collapse into their own footprints, because two of them were hit with 02:18:58 planes. 02:18:59 http://24.media.tumblr.com/4749e66db130c47b127835b56bf34e67/tumblr_mkbu5fdToy1r7a5hdo1_1280.jpg Dude. Their blog. 02:19:02 holy shit 02:19:14 this thread is amazing 02:19:23 Bike: uncle sam looks p. cool in that drawing 02:19:26 a rad dude 02:19:27 elliott: wow you made me look 02:19:30 Hey, my Nexus 10's battery finally died. 02:19:31 he really does do that doesn't he 02:19:35 Dutifully reporting 72% to the very end. 02:19:37 2cool4skool 02:19:43 Top posting, in spite of having the problems with that pointed out in the message to which you're replying, and with new subject matter but the same subject line. 02:19:44 we are the 72% 02:19:54 i actually hate top posting but this guy is so funny 02:20:01 question what is "top posting" 02:20:08 Bike: what 02:20:09 re: the image 02:20:10 what 02:20:14 This shifts the helm of the printing press to the federal government and they might print money for ulterior uses, surreptitiously or a vague reason of “national security.” Government officials have been known to influenced by bribes, gifts, threats, blackmail, and force. 02:20:22 top posting is where you put your reply before a big ol quote of the email you're replying to 02:20:28 Wow, really. 02:20:30 Top posting is the best way of posting 02:20:38 instead of putting the context before the actual things you're saying and not including five thousand lines that are irrelevant to your email 02:20:50 of course every client promotes doing this by default for no reason 02:21:16 The Planned Parenthood memo indicates a the organization’s darker notes of eugenics-based population control. 02:21:38 yep there's alex jones 02:21:48 And worthwhile of discussion, even if top-posted. 02:21:54 BLATANT CENSORSHIP by CNN of Soldier Supporting Ron Paul’s Foreign Policy - Please Re-upload 02:22:46 17 Reasons Why A Vote For Mitt Romney Is A Vote For The New World Order. <-- okay i kind of want to read this almost except it's on infowars 02:23:45 Is Gingrich a Straw Man? Gingrich is perhaps a straw man. Do night fight single candidate wars; be smart. Use logic, Socratic method (identify BS). Issues are collapse and WW3. The *real* enemy is war, lies, and corruption. These things come from CFR, Bilderberg. Romney (CFR), Rick Perry (CFR, Bilderberg), Obama (CFR, Goldman-Sachs, Brzezinski). 02:23:51 and now i'm done. 02:23:52 FluorIDE sounds like an IDE. 02:24:06 imo you should make an ide called that 02:24:07 Bike: do night fight single candidate wars 02:24:11 @google fluoride IDE 02:24:16 http://www.electricscotland.com/mcintyre/index_f/menu_f/nomenclature.htm 02:24:16 Title: fluorine fluoride chemistry 02:24:38 elliott: tonight on spike 02:26:42 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:28:57 monoid monoid on the wall. what is the easiest algebraic structure of all? 02:31:08 @google dylan server pages 02:31:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Server_Pages 02:31:14 Title: Dylan Server Pages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 02:33:13 I,I The Last Monoid 02:35:48 The Last Free Monoid in Europe 02:39:21 Bike: to be fair the founder of Planned Parenthood was sort of into eugenics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood#Margaret_Sanger_and_eugenics 02:39:35 but maybe the kind that isn't so bad 02:39:42 and also it was the 20s and everyone though eugenics was cool back then 02:39:44 kmc: plz https: link 02:39:48 yes i am aware 02:39:56 shachattps 02:40:08 shachaf: are you the secure version of a protocol named hachaf 02:40:22 maybe i should have mentioned that the title of that post was "Fertility control agents in water supply" 02:42:13 SHA-chaf 02:45:04 Jafet: You left #haskell? 02:46:36 No, I just didn't go back in. 03:01:08 -!- btiffin has joined. 03:03:16 -!- clog_ has quit (Quit: ^C). 03:03:30 -!- clog has joined. 03:12:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:18:07 -!- boily has joined. 03:18:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:36:13 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:36:38 which old computer game is the topic/ 03:39:10 an old one I'm guessing? 03:40:30 good guess 03:44:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:44:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:51:22 mastermind? 03:53:00 I vote Atari ET 03:53:54 blech! 03:58:10 as I was telling my colleague on the other side of the table: I never imagined that I would in my life stare at a picture of the teletubbies in a common room around midnight in order to score points in a hacking competition. 03:58:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 03:59:10 Civilization II, actually 04:08:26 this sight really improves my programming efficiency http://www.hackertyper.com/ 04:08:50 ^site 04:20:07 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:05:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:10:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:11:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:18:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:55:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:01:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:02:37 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 06:04:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:35:02 Ok, What's a pirate's favourite letter? 06:35:24 Arrr, you think it'd be R 06:35:30 But they loves the C 06:35:43 @arr 06:35:43 I want me grog! 06:35:48 @arr you sure? 06:35:48 Keelhaul the swabs! 06:36:15 Aye 06:37:22 What did the zero say to the eight? 06:37:28 Nice belt. 06:41:29 What did the one say to the seven? 06:41:34 Stay straight. 06:42:13 :-) 06:45:23 Is there an idea listed for a language based on the outcome of jokes? 06:45:51 If not, you can add it 06:45:51 zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 06:45:54 ?messages 06:45:54 boily said 12h 53m 16s ago: Montréal. 06:54:29 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:58:03 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:03:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 07:20:47 There's new porn spam on the wiki 07:20:52 :/ 07:26:55 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:29:37 is that french 07:32:18 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: tiredn). 07:34:15 monqy: yes. 07:37:57 http://codepad.org/cRrdL4wD 07:38:15 I'm tempted to write a new stlisp implementation some day 07:39:48 -!- carado has joined. 07:44:32 The source code has gone missing. 07:55:07 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:04:17 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:07:56 -!- ogrom has joined. 08:13:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:16:08 -!- btiffin has left. 08:29:15 Can Z-machine version 1 files be made to work in Famicom? It doesn't have the ASCII codes above 95, but it could be done so that the SHIFT key with codes 64 to 95 and 96 to 126 will toggle bit5 of the ASCII code, like SHIFT toggles bit4 for the codes 32 to 63. 08:33:18 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:51:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:59:31 -!- oklofok has joined. 09:27:02 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 09:32:24 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:33:51 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 09:46:10 -!- nooga has joined. 09:54:21 -!- dessos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:57:09 -!- dessos has joined. 10:16:30 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 10:21:06 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:56:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 10:59:28 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:03:13 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:05:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:17:41 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 11:25:09 -!- ReadingDragon has changed nick to SDr|Flow. 11:37:55 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:41:30 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 11:43:49 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:47:24 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:49:22 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 12:01:43 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 12:04:31 -!- AnotherTest has left. 12:05:29 -!- Regis__ has joined. 12:28:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:40:42 Z-machine version 5 has a command to check if the game disc is genuine. No game uses it, and all interpreters just assume that it is genuine. 12:41:29 (Some interpreters have an option to tell it that it is not genuine.) 12:48:14 zzo38: are you writing a Z-machine? 12:51:33 Yes, actually at this time I am. 12:52:24 Cool! 12:52:39 I was considering writing one for the DCPU, but I didn't for some reason. 12:53:15 Mine is C and SDL, all versions except 6. 13:01:25 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:02:02 Including version 9, which is my own variant based on version 5, although there are a few differences, such as using word addresses in the headers, and allowing packed addresses to be access twice as much memory as in version 8. 13:12:57 WinFrotz reports the interpreter number as 6 (I tested it using ZmForth). Setting the Tandy bit does not change this, nor does it change flags 1 (ZmForth is Z-machine version 5, so there is no Tandy bit in flags 1). My own interpreter (not finished yet) sets the interpreter number to 11 if the Tandy bit is set in the options, or 6 otherwise; it also sets flags 1 for versions 1 to 3. 13:14:05 I don't know if any version 4 or 5 games use this (other than Beyond Zork, which crashes on Tandy computers), but I put it in anyways, in case someone writes some game to use it. 13:18:42 -!- monqy has joined. 13:19:03 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:23:03 -!- boily has joined. 13:24:18 Bit0 and bit1 of flags 2 remains as it is when the game is restored or restarted or after undo, rather than being restored. I wonder if some game might use this to undo and then do something else 13:31:39 -!- augur_ has joined. 13:31:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:34:07 For some reason in WinFrotz, if the game selects fixed-pitch mode, the display options are ignored and it uses actual italic and bold rather than whatever colors are set by the user. 13:38:30 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:38:36 -!- augur has joined. 13:39:43 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:41:28 how about a game where you write an AI and fight other people 13:42:39 There's something like that in forth I think 14:00:33 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:07:49 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:18:22 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:21:22 Some people have dumb reasons for being atheist and some people have dumb reasons for being religious. 14:21:49 I don't particularly care either way 14:22:18 I don't care either, but sometimes their reasons for being so aren't very good reasons. 14:34:39 -!- Regis__ has changed nick to GOMADWarrior. 14:36:28 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:36:44 -!- btiffin has joined. 14:43:58 I don't particularly care either way <-- does that mean you are agnostic? 14:44:06 or something else? 14:44:24 I call myself a lapsed Christian if anything 14:44:45 A fallen one. (It's an impressive-sounding name.) 14:44:56 I think "agnostic" is still a term for a person who cares some way or another 14:45:16 The book Godel,Escher,Bach also mentions "meta-agnostic" 14:45:35 there should be a term like meh-gnostic 14:49:07 Speaking of which, I see that that Torment kick-farter ended, and they made it to the $4.25M mark but not quite to the $4.5M one. (Still, they only asked for $900k.) 14:49:21 (Also, I hear Notch put in ten thousand dollars, as usual.) 14:56:40 does he just donate $10,000 to all kickstarters 15:03:25 On this note, I can't wait for To Be Or Not To Be: That Is The Adventure 15:05:12 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:05:59 Taneb, what is that? 15:06:15 It's a choose-your-own-adventure version of Hamlet 15:06:19 Made by Ryan North 15:06:40 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/breadpig/to-be-or-not-to-be-that-is-the-adventure 15:07:11 heh 15:14:19 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 15:15:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:28:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:41:14 -!- conehead has joined. 15:51:31 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:59:01 'agnostic' traditionally means someone who thinks the question of whether god exists is impossible to answer 15:59:22 they might still care a lot about the question and write many volumes about what a bummer it is that we can't answer it 15:59:37 personally i like the word 'apatheist' 15:59:58 I am 'ignostic' 16:00:21 apatheist sounds about right 16:00:29 I am 'pretty okay with whatever' 16:00:31 * kmc thinks it is logically possible that a being like a god exists, e.g. if this universe is a simulation running in some other universe, but even though it's possible there's no particular reason to believe it 16:00:46 any more than we believe there is a teapot orbiting the sun between the earth and mars 16:00:50 which is also totally possible 16:01:01 it might cost less than a billion dollars to make that happen 16:01:15 not sure though, I guess you need heavy rockets to get to a solar orbit? 16:01:20 Did somebody put it there a few years ago? 16:01:45 I think if there was a single deity powerful enough to be worth worshipping 16:01:51 although there are some physical facts which look like evidence for us being in a simulation, if you look at them just right 16:02:00 I do not believe this universe is a simulation running in some other universe, but I don't know. However, it is not what I mean by "God". 16:02:06 We'd know because of all the non-believers getting hit by lightning all the time 16:02:24 Taneb: i think we can confidently say that if God does exist, he is fucking with all of us 16:02:26 kmc: Maybe, but I still don't think so. 16:02:48 Unless said deity is benevolent, in which case why the hell wars. 16:03:06 And if it is a simulation, is that in another simulation? 16:03:24 And if not, what is it? 16:03:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:04:26 Taneb: That is what a lot of people ask. 16:05:13 However unlikely it is that we are the "top" universe (by which I mean one that isn't a simulation), consider how unlikely it would be for any universe to be top universe, and how unlikely it would be for the top universe to create a simulation of a universe down to our level 16:05:27 And how even more unlikely for it to be universes all the way up 16:06:39 But, what is best for *the universe as a whole*? Of course we shouldn't have a war but that is the job of people to choose not to have a war; probably it is best for the universe as a whole that we have that choice but choose not to use it. 16:07:12 Why malaria, then 16:07:16 Why guinea worm 16:07:50 "benevolence" doesn't imply fixing everything 16:09:00 Anyways, the laws of physics must still be followed regardless; even if there are sometimes multiple outcomes, or none at all. 16:09:15 A god that must obey the laws of physics is no god at all 16:09:17 Humanity is not the most important thing in the universe. 16:09:26 Is Ruby "out of style"? #haskell discusses. 16:09:27 taneb: Would you prefer to be a robot that won’t ever go to war or to have a free will which implies you have the choice to go to war? 16:09:32 Taneb: That is what it seems to you. 16:09:51 do you have to be "a" something, anyway 16:10:17 ion, I'd rather live in a society that is weighted firmly against war 16:10:25 imo ruby was never in style 16:10:30 So that even if individuals choose to go to war, society will prevent them 16:10:40 However, if there is some multiverse, do they have a few different laws of physics? 16:10:40 Taneb 16:10:46 individuals can't go to war 16:10:52 that is kind of "how it works" 16:11:04 Individuals can decide that there ought to be a war 16:11:17 Also I shouldn't philosophy this time in the afternoon 16:11:26 I am 'panentheist', which means that the universe (and possibly even the multiverse, omnium, whatever) is a part of God. Some say Spinoza is also panentheist. 16:11:27 that's more like having an opinion than going to war 16:11:42 shachaf: ;_; 16:11:50 Well, individuals do not go to war as much as the military can, anyways. 16:11:51 Anyway, goodbye 16:11:59 I will stop philosphying now 16:12:05 So it is different. 16:12:38 kmc: Don't worry, it's moved onto Perl. 16:13:53 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:14:39 My opinion is that the fundamental laws of physics can be expressed by mathematics, although we may not be able to figure it out quite that precisely, and that many of it is not computable, and sometimes there will be multiple solutions or none at all. Of course, this is just guess so I don't really know for sure. 16:14:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:14:49 shachaf: perl is like a cockroach, it will never die 16:15:21 So it's like the species of cockroaches? 16:15:38 Some people prefer different programming languages, and some programming language are good for a few other things too, but you can use it for other purposes too. 16:16:06 after like 8 years of avoiding perl, I'm starting to use it again for shell oneliners 16:16:36 it's pretty convenient especially with options like n, p, l, a, 0 16:17:04 These Japanese slides from ekmett_conf are so excited. Why can't everyone make slides like these? 16:17:35 ekmett_conf is decadent and depraved 16:18:10 Anyone try IPython? It's pysh mode is my favourite shell now, ... well for playing. bash still wins for 'working' 16:18:17 yeah IPython is great 16:18:36 also cool: http://ipython.org/notebook.html 16:18:45 what about bpython 16:18:48 many cool examples here: http://nbviewer.ipython.org/ 16:18:57 btiffin, what about zsh? 16:19:29 Yeah, web notebooks, those are awesome. I've only used them in toy mode though 16:19:31 I used it a couple of times on live cds where it was default. It has some interesting conveniences, but generally I use bash 16:19:31 -!- Bike has joined. 16:19:32 btiffin: yeah, bash is good for running programs, and python is good for manipulating data, so what I really want is an interface which lets me jump between a bash prompt and a python prompt and easily carry data between them 16:19:44 i have a design in mind for this, just need to write it 16:19:57 does ipython have method completion and interactive documentation like bpython 16:20:07 zsh is a time hole Vorpal. ;-) Just one more tweak and life will be great, ok maybe one more. ;-) 16:20:15 hah 16:20:16 oh bpython is a real thing? i assumed it was some kind of obscure funpun 16:20:49 there is cython or whatever the thing that took Python and made it into C + calls to libpython.so 16:23:07 yeah, pyrex / cython (i think cython is newer) 16:23:18 not to be confused with cpython, which is just the name of the 'default' python interpreter 16:23:42 there are loads of cool ways to call between Python and C or C++ 16:23:46 Boost.Python is neat 16:23:56 ctypes is really really handy for small things 16:24:46 also there's some numpy (or scipy?) feature that lets you just straight up include c code in a string 16:26:05 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:26:21 Boost.Python gives you basically two things: a C++ data type that corresponds to a Python value, and an easy way to export a C++ class as a Python class 16:27:03 the "Python value" type has enough boosty high level C++ magic that you can write C++ code in a vaguely Pythonic style 16:28:10 valac and Genie? It's like writing Python in vaguely Pythonic style. ;-) 16:28:34 cool, I haven't heard of Genie 16:28:55 "In the vein of Python, Genie uses indentation rather than curly brackets to delimit blocks." so, is indentation sugar for punctuation, or not? 16:29:13 indentation as sugar for punctuation is fine, indentation as core syntax is terrible 16:29:16 imnsho 16:29:44 Haskell mostly passes this test except that the desugaring procedure has a weird feedback from the parser 16:31:04 Core syntax 16:31:08 :( 16:31:16 oh well I can deal with it 16:31:21 I use Python all the time too 16:31:34 there are curly-brace preprocessors for Python 16:31:36 tab by default even, a keyword [indent n] can change that to counted spaces though 16:31:53 i wonder if any of them add full lambda support though 16:31:57 btiffin: :( :( :( 16:32:05 ok I shouldn't care so much about concrete syntax 16:32:11 the desugaring in haskell seems very complicated, I've never quite understood how it works 16:32:21 olsner: it's pretty simple except for that feedback 16:32:36 I'm not sure if Genie is getting much attention, but Jamie seems to post up updates once every blue moon or so 16:32:49 if the token after 'do', 'let', 'of', or 'in' is not an open brace, insert an open brace and remember the starting column of that token 16:33:04 a subsequent line at the same column gets a semicolon prepended 16:33:13 a subsequent line at a column left of there gets a close brace prepended 16:33:31 there are some other rules to make sure that you can't e.g. close an implicit brace with an explicit one 16:34:07 i think most beginning Haskell programmers think Haskell is a lot pickier about indentation than it is 16:34:11 i know i did 16:34:19 it took me a while to realize you can say 16:34:21 foo x = do 16:34:24 y <- bar 16:34:31 which is way better than foo x = do y <- bar 16:34:46 because this way you don't have to re-indent the whole block if the name of 'foo' or its arguments changes 16:34:53 Hmm, bf indented would drop it down to 6 symbols. Yeah, indented bf 16:34:56 and it just looks cleaner and more uniform 16:35:25 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:35:52 kmc: i don't get how that doesn't prepend a close brace from what you just said. 16:36:13 "ADD RDX, 1 MOV RDX, [RDX+8] SHR RDX, 2 SHL RDX, 1" unrelatedly, lol 16:36:25 because the first token after 'do' is that 'y' 16:36:57 Ohhhh, I read it as remembering the do for some reason 16:37:01 -!- conehead has joined. 16:37:03 yeah, that's the trick 16:37:15 that's what i didn't realize initially 16:37:20 it doesn't care where the 'do' is 16:37:33 right, right 16:37:49 oh my list of keywords is wrong I think 16:37:55 'where' and not 'in' 16:38:09 the thing after 'in' is just a single expression, not a semicolon-delimited list of stuff 16:38:24 i think there's also a special rule that lets you write 'module Foo where' without then indenting the rest of the file 16:38:34 Hmm, bf indented would drop it down to 6 symbols. Yeah, indented bf 16:38:39 what if you want to do [] 16:38:49 or [something][else] 16:38:53 blank line, obv 16:38:59 :-) 16:39:50 kmc: is that special? sounds like that's allowed by the rule you gave before 16:39:54 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:39:54 And maybe indented bf would be better served by vertical tab instead of horizontal, to keep with the f-ness. 16:40:12 It also doesn't care about indentation at all in blocks that have {} around it 16:40:24 you didn't answer my second question 16:40:29 Phantom_Hoover: In [something][else] the second part is never executed 16:41:37 that is, uh 16:41:39 a good point 16:42:45 obviously it's an inadequate syntax if multiple behaviorally identical programs can be expressed 16:43:31 You have me reading up on Cython, because real men call Python from COBOL. And Cython might make that magically easi(er). COBOL is always on the look out for magic. 16:43:49 Bike: Well, if you are trying to compress it, then at least it means the compression might not be very good and it should be try to improve 16:44:28 imo compression by just storing the results of the program instead of the program itsel 16:44:42 The results might be longer, though, and the program might require input. 16:45:47 vorogomlok compression 16:47:19 To compress a brainfuck program you might use some kind of Huffman coding but provide no coding for redundand instrructions, and then furthermore code runs of the same instruction several times compressed too 16:48:46 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:51:10 zzo38: Just RLE works really well on Brainfuck. 16:53:38 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:54:27 -!- boily has joined. 17:04:40 olsner: i'm not sure 17:08:00 -!- SDr|Flow has changed nick to SDr. 17:14:08 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 17:20:45 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Quit: ragequit). 17:30:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:30:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:33:38 oh my god the thick of it is even more amazing than it was before 17:39:00 which bit are you on now 17:39:36 nicola murray just made ben swain shadow chancellor 17:40:21 This sounds like something I should watch 17:40:26 What form of media is it? 17:40:45 television 17:41:02 ofc it's not on the iplayer so you may have to resort to methods of questionable legality 17:41:27 Methods of questionable legality? 17:41:29 No problem. 17:41:52 I have a list of things I need to watch, so I'll let future me deal with it 17:41:59 For better or for worse 17:42:16 Does future Taneb have a beard? 17:42:22 I don't know 17:42:29 Present Taneb doesn't, which is odd 17:42:47 Is Present Taneb the British version of Santa Claus? 17:43:12 I deliver presents to all the little girls and boys all over the east half of Hexham 17:43:16 Taneb: it's on Hulu if you can connect through a US IP 17:43:32 THAT IS AN OPTION 17:43:59 geographically restricting content by IP is such a quaint notion 17:44:12 when I watch FOX shows on Hulu, it pastes the logo of the Boston area FOX affiliate into the corner 17:44:23 itt skeuomorphs 17:44:31 But... aren't you in somewhere that isn't Boston 17:44:41 no i'm in Boston area (Cambridge, just across the river) 17:44:44 Right 17:45:02 i thought you were in mid-cambridge 17:45:08 c.c 17:45:10 I think I assume everyone who isn't me, Phantom_Hoover, elliott and ais523 or Finnish all live together with shachaf 17:45:27 (Norwegians and Swedes live with the Finns) 17:45:29 Taneb: I'm Finnish. Where does that put me? 17:45:43 shachaf, in Finland, with everyone living with you 17:45:49 oh 17:45:53 is "river" a metaphor for the atlantic ocean 17:46:12 But... Cambridge is in, like, the south-east 17:46:16 since cambridge is in england and all 17:46:18 It's not near the coast at all 17:46:36 picturing the hexham equivalent of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Steinberg_New_Yorker_Cover.png 17:47:19 My knowledge of geography is pretty good until the north sea, Keswick, Alnwick, and Yorkshire 17:48:13 Looking at Google Maps now 17:48:21 Never realised how far west Edinburgh is 17:48:26 Phantom_Hoover has some explaining to do 17:48:37 imo Taneb should move to cambridge 17:48:58 Cambridgeshire or Massachusetts? 17:49:35 either one. i'm not picky!! 17:49:37 "shadow chancellor" sounds like a much cooler office than it actually is 17:49:44 ikr 17:50:45 or maybe move to Newcastle upon Tyne, California 18:07:34 -!- john_metcalf has joined. 18:10:16 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 18:11:27 Old computer games? Has anyone ever played micromud? 18:11:56 I have played some old computer games 18:12:04 I don't know if I have played that one though 18:12:28 Its only for the c64 í think. 18:13:16 A single player version of the essex mud 18:13:48 Games for old computers are sometimes still written this year. 18:16:43 single player version of a mud? what's the point 18:17:51 that's a sud 18:18:26 The other players are AI. It's from approx 1985 when very few people could play online. 18:19:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:19:53 * impomatic used to play a few BBS door games. 18:20:08 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 18:20:32 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 18:20:48 Cambridge has a new retro computer museum opening soon. 18:21:30 I play a few BBS door games. 18:21:40 They are still available. 18:22:18 Inform-7 18:22:39 Best parser, ever 18:29:40 I'm using it from the angle of interactive fiction training, random reward being a powerful human incentive. Grace Hopper History lesson game will be first up. 18:30:04 Oh, and if you don't know Grace. http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2516 (Don't forget the red drop hover over bonus comic). 18:30:14 red dot 18:31:27 imo fran allen 18:32:30 Nice. Thanks Bike 18:35:04 -!- augur has joined. 18:37:40 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 18:38:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:39:40 What do you call the thing in a book within a chapter where one storyline stops and another begins and there's a little gap, sometimes with a swirly little pattern? 18:41:30 @message? 18:41:30 Maybe you meant: messages messages? 18:41:31 @messages? 18:41:32 Sorry, no messages today. 18:47:19 impomatic: I know what you're talking about, but don't know what it's called either 18:47:51 If it doesn't have a name, one needs to be invented. 18:48:42 I tried transition, but I don't think that's the right jargon 18:49:35 And I doubt it's segue 18:49:44 * impomatic was just proofreading and wanted to tell the author it feels like it needs one of those things... but without knowing the name I'll sound a bit stupid :-) 18:50:48 if you say "transition" they'll probably know what you mean 18:50:50 or maybe a "cut" 18:52:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:54:20 -!- Fleshlight has joined. 18:55:41 elliott: oh wow, the new spambot filter (filter 2) actually seems to be holding, it's cutting out like 80-90% of the spam we're getting 18:55:48 nice 18:55:56 too bad there's still block spam 18:56:34 yep, and account creation spam 18:56:40 it'd be nice to hold them off at the CAPTCHA 18:57:19 I think CAPTCHA development is a losing battle in the long run, but it may work in the short term 19:04:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:06:32 -!- augur has joined. 19:09:57 Look at Pin Eight; they say it works much better. 19:16:37 -!- Fleshlight has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 19:24:37 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:29:25 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:30:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:37:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:38:06 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:39:02 -!- augur has joined. 19:51:59 Youtube must think my music tastes are really messed up 19:52:05 I'm listening to some black metal 19:52:34 "Recommended for you: Brahms Piano Quartet in C minor opus 60 4th mvt Finale" 19:54:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:55:09 that's pretty awesome taste imo 19:55:39 I thought logreading was punishable by apathy. <-- i think you are confusing cause and effect here, sir 19:59:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:07:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:07:35 -!- augur has joined. 20:08:45 DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE: USED BY NAZIS 20:09:01 kmc: fixed that for you 20:10:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:10:30 -!- augur has joined. 20:10:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:11:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:19:39 · · 20:19:41 20:19:44 :☹( 20:19:45 20:19:48 ----- 20:19:51 / \ 20:20:06 whats that 20:20:30 obviously that's Fractal Nose Man 20:21:09 shachaf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV6dLhepx6w 20:21:19 you may not have heard of him, since he for some reason never gets invited to the other superheroes' parties 20:21:23 oops monqy isn't even in here "what's the point" 20:21:33 monqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqy 20:21:55 shachaf's meaning of life, wasted 20:23:25 @tell monqy we love you monqy... / we miss you in school... / do you think i could... help you? 20:23:25 Consider it noted. 20:25:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: [explanation of channel's purpose] | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:25:52 @ask monqy [i mean ie] http://books.google.com/books?id=tdPnQS2WT_sC&lpg=PA48&ots=r1ZFu-z6MH&pg=PA48 20:25:53 Consider it noted. 20:37:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:38:49 are TLBs usually fully associative 20:41:48 -!- augur has joined. 20:42:14 kmc: then they would be too easy. 20:42:23 like monoids? 20:42:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:42:40 well i suppose they might not have a unit 20:42:57 oh i get it 20:47:22 Is a TLB like a BLT 20:47:49 somewhat 20:49:58 -!- augur has joined. 20:50:53 oh boy gsoc is coming up 20:51:02 kmc: are you going to be a mosh mentor if it gets slots 20:51:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:52:04 shachaf: I'm signed up as the backup mentor 20:52:31 Wait, is that different from backup admin? 20:52:36 -!- augur has joined. 20:52:36 oh 20:52:38 maybe i'm that 20:52:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:52:44 i shuold figure out what i am 20:52:52 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 20:52:53 * shachaf is backup admin for haskell.org 20:53:01 do any of us truly know what we are, in the end 20:53:14 anyway I expect to spend time helping people, whether or not in any official capacity 20:53:14 * Taneb is very little to do with GSoC, if any 20:53:35 -!- augur has joined. 20:53:41 btw if any of you are students and would like to work on Mosh and get paid by google we would be super happy to have you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if google approves our slots which they might not 20:53:55 kmc: (and over 18) 20:54:10 kmc: Hmm. That might be a good idea. 20:54:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:54:14 (rules out most of the channel??) 20:54:17 I am totally a student, and mosh seems neat. 20:54:27 I'm over 18, but only debatably a student 20:55:02 MAYBE NEXT YEAR 20:56:13 What's involved in being a mentor, anyway? 20:56:16 -!- augur has joined. 20:56:24 It's mental 20:56:49 pikhq: cool. you can come by #mosh if you have any questions 20:56:56 what the hell is mosh again 20:57:04 http://mosh.mit.edu/ 20:57:09 IRC ain't good enough for you?? or something 20:57:12 Isn't it that thing aimed at children with the monsters 20:57:23 it's a replacement for (some of) SSH, which stays connected if you move your client between networks 20:57:32 Oh, that's kinda cool. 20:57:32 also works better on crappy connections 20:57:37 I've started using it recently. It works beautifully. 20:57:39 (i've used it on connections where TCP doesn't work /at all/) 20:57:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:57:42 also it has predictive local echo 20:57:55 It even makes remote shell over Wifi work better. 20:57:57 it's a replacement for THE INTERNET AS WE KNOW IT 20:57:58 Does it use udp...? 20:58:01 yep 20:58:06 it uses a custom state-sync protocol over UDP 20:58:07 I shall investigate 20:58:08 fancy 20:58:15 meaning if packets get dropped, it doesn't necessarily retransmit them as is 20:58:16 It could prove useful in playing Dwarf Fortress 20:58:20 it just tries to get you up to the latest state 20:58:29 Yeah, it's quite neat overall. 20:58:29 kmc: you should have a soc project to port mosh to use nacl imo 20:58:31 well i probably won't work on that and i'm not competent enough to use ssh regularly but i wish you luck 20:58:52 It also handles the client side of the connection migrating. 20:59:12 shachaf: CrOS people were keen for that to happen 20:59:21 oh, huh, the approved organizations are being listed tomorrow* 20:59:29 keithw got as far as trying out his terminal codes torture test in their JavaScript/CSS terminal emulator 20:59:34 and filed like 20 bugs all at once 20:59:57 kmc: "the other nacl" 21:00:07 o 21:00:15 nah we're happy with AES-OCB 21:00:19 "though maybe that one is good too who knows ? ?" 21:00:27 keithw doesn't want to add algorithm negotiation b/c it's more complexity and risk 21:00:59 i think the choice of OCB was really lucky, everyone hates CBC and GCM now 21:01:17 tho........... maybe it's because fewer people are thinking about OCB atm 21:01:27 No negotiation. Just replacing it. 21:01:44 but matthew green likes it and he's like a crypto researcher 21:01:59 zzo38, may I ask you two questions? 21:02:30 i heard phillip rogaway likes it too 21:02:33 * oerjan hopes Taneb included that as one of his questions, just in case 21:02:36 or... maybe it was a different person 21:02:48 shachaf: o rly 21:02:51 oerjan, that is indeed the case 21:03:04 great! 21:03:04 kmc: Did that weblog answer your question yet? 21:03:13 wtfcrypto? no 21:03:21 they probably decided my question was 'too crazy' 21:03:29 ''what was your quesiton'' 21:03:34 what was your question. 21:03:42 shachaf knos 21:03:47 what was your question, 21:03:50 "is god real" 21:03:56 I do? 21:03:57 "Did you chose your IRC nick because you were annoyed at always being first alphabetically?" 21:04:03 Maybe I've forgotten. 21:04:05 could god create a cryptosystem so strong that even he could not break it 21:04:06 "and what encryption does he use" 21:04:31 i think zzo38's nick may predate him joining irc 21:04:34 I bet god uses homomorphic encryption. 21:04:53 the entire universe is just an encrypted computation of the optimal Starcraft strategy 21:04:55 oerjan, but look at his real name! 21:05:07 Taneb: oh hm good point 21:05:24 ("Taneb" was first used by me in pretty much the worst of situations) 21:05:33 kmc, one-time pad with the key thrown away? :p 21:05:40 (a shared account on a crapy "build a city and conquer your neighbours" web game 21:05:41 can god forget stuff tho 21:05:42 ) 21:05:50 kmc, if he wants 21:05:52 kmc, he can throw it 21:06:15 omniscient vs omnipotent 21:06:23 same and yet different? discuss 21:06:43 apparently "omniscient" is pronounced "om ni shnt" or something?????? 21:06:53 I'd say incompatible and perhaps incosistent 21:06:54 rather than "omni" "scient (like science)" 21:07:10 > ord 'z' 21:07:13 122 21:07:35 > ord 'a' + ord 'z' 21:07:37 219 21:07:58 > chr.(219-).ord<$>"aaron" 21:08:00 "zzilm" 21:08:19 brb, going to bie 15 miles 21:08:21 bike 21:08:30 hello? 21:08:33 hello 21:08:37 annyong 21:08:43 > chr.(219-).ord<$>"zzo" 21:08:45 "aal" 21:09:54 could god create a cryptosystem so strong that even he could not break it <-- is this related to the IP=PSPACE theorem? 21:12:38 i guess that's what you need to convince someone _else_ you've broken it. 21:13:04 also it doesn't really apply if god can affect your rng 21:14:25 exercise: design a cryptosystem secure from an omniscient observer 21:14:49 Wouldn't an omniscient observer know the message anyway 21:15:11 so the only way to do that is to not have a message in the first place 21:15:18 very good, Taneb. you get an E on the test. 21:15:23 * Bike nods sagely 21:15:25 Yay 21:15:30 (you cannot get better because you didn't solve the problem) 21:16:02 Only six more letters and I can spell my name! 21:16:12 or wait not having a message in the first place sounds vaguely like buddhism. 21:16:34 christianity is pretty much a buddhism ripoff anyway imo 21:16:41 OKAY 21:17:04 (didn't christianity come kinda four hundred or so years before buddhism or am I getting mixed up) 21:17:04 imo Bike is a unicycle ripoff 21:17:21 I'm getting mixed up 21:17:23 Taneb: you are getting mixed up. 21:17:47 or backwards. 21:18:36 shachaf: he's really conjoined unicycle twins, and i don't think you should discriminate him like that 21:19:18 I have a unicycle 21:19:27 I ought to learn to ride it at some point 21:20:39 I changed it to set the interpreter number to 4 when Tandy mode is not set, rather than 6, so that the runes will display correctly (this program uses the Amiga version of the font 3). 21:21:33 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 21:22:02 zzo38, that doesn't answer either of my questions 21:22:28 Taneb: O, sorry. Can you repeat the question which you want answered, please? 21:22:42 First question: may I ask you two questions? 21:23:06 You can ask me whatever you want; I might or might not answer. 21:23:31 Second question: did you choose your nick because you were annoyed at being alphabetically first all the time? 21:23:37 No. 21:24:06 Could you explain the origin of your nick? 21:24:35 I do not actually remember why, but I think it had something to do with a design I was trying to make in school with numbers, but the only ones they had left were 3 and 8. 21:24:40 zzo38: Watch out! That looks like an ordinary question but it's actually a veiled request. 21:25:01 shachaf: I don't care. 21:25:31 OK. 21:25:54 What are good resources for learning how to create, eg, Famicom games? 21:25:55 * oerjan didn't remember pink was an irc color 21:26:05 oerjan: it's magenta hth 21:26:58 thx 21:27:08 hm... 21:27:16 Taneb: Try NESdev wiki; it explains most things about NES/Famicom necessary for emulation or to write a game, including the keyboard and mouse (the mouse was never intended for the Famicom but it works anyways) 21:27:26 testing 21:27:38 ok that was definitely wrong color 21:27:44 oerjan: it's 13 hth 21:27:58 zzo38, have you ever attempted to read Homestuck? 21:27:58 ok the 8 is for light i guess 21:28:11 It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta. 21:28:28 `addquote It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta. 21:28:38 1013) It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta. 21:28:48 1 21:29:11 Taneb, stop homestuck evangelising 21:29:32 Phantom_Hoover, I evangelise Haskell to Homestucks and Homestuck to Haskellers. 21:29:36 It is the only way 21:29:50 homestuck more like homest......upid 21:30:02 PC color codes use 1 for blue, 2 for green, 4 for red, and 8 for high intensity (only on color monitors; on monochrome, 1 (but not 2 to 7) are underlined) 21:30:07 Taneb, let me tell you a story 21:30:10 Taneb: do they ever manage to escape from home 21:30:14 once, i was a homestuck evangelist 21:30:19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 21:30:25 then, months later, i realised i had created Sgeo 21:30:35 don't let this happen to you 21:30:42 tragdye 21:30:43 oops 21:31:02 It is unlikely that I will create Sgeo 21:31:08 Phantom_Hoover: you created Sgeo?? 21:31:08 He seems pretty already created 21:31:23 Phantom_Hoover: did you ever consider this a crime against everything 21:31:24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 21:31:28 But for background colors, 8 means blinking text, instead of high intensity 21:31:50 shachaf, pretty much 21:31:56 oerjan: Now foregrounds! 21:32:05 argh 21:32:17 shachaf: the one above had foregrounds too hth 21:32:28 shachaf, i try to make amends for my past crimes but it's just not enough 21:32:41 oerjan: foregrounds against a black background obviously 21:32:43 blackgrounds 21:32:45 shachaf, they did escape from there home but then one of them stuck his arm back in and got stuck 21:32:47 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Goodnight). 21:33:00 Taneb: hey want to hear a good joke 21:33:20 one of them stuck his arm back in home and got stuck 21:33:26 homestuck 21:33:38 and in that moment i swear we were haskell 21:35:42 ^ul (:()~(,01)**~*S:):((0)~^(1)~^(2)~^(3)~^(4)~^(5)~^(6)~^(7)~^(8)~^(9)~^(10)~^(11)~^(12)~^(13)~^(14)~^(15)~^)^ 21:35:42 0123456789101112131415 21:40:52 * oerjan realizes the color numbering in his client has nothing discernible to do with rgb 21:41:16 doesn't follow a rainbow either 21:41:29 I think IRC colours is a de-facto standard started by mIRC but once again I could be mixed up 21:41:40 yeah, it is 21:41:56 taneb may not know his religions but by gum he knows the history of shitty protocols 21:42:08 I think we've had this discussion about irc colors before 21:42:10 the primaries seem to be 2,3 and 5. maybe it's fibonacci based :P 21:42:57 Bike: is there actually a difference? 21:43:08 between religions and shitty protocols? 21:43:28 a religion is pretty much a shitty protocol with god, or similar 21:43:39 religions have better pay but flamewars involve being on fire, i guess 21:44:27 religions can also involve being on fire 21:47:12 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 21:50:23 the adherents of the blessed oiled smock 21:51:21 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 21:51:36 32mtesting 21:51:39 nope 21:52:10 Is this channel +c yet? 21:52:12 It should be. 21:52:21 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 21:52:35 finally 21:52:37 shachaf: my client is +c 21:52:39 finally 21:52:47 as such, I don't notice the color spam 21:52:49 ais523: Does it disable bold too? 21:52:53 shachaf: i just tested the ANSI color escape, which apparently doesn't work for me (although the logs show the code got through) 21:52:53 if it annoys you, I recommend you do the same 21:52:54 and no 21:53:06 OK, that's not the same as Freenode's +c 21:53:17 indeed 21:53:29 still, can't you patch your client to fix that? 21:53:42 «In 2009, Sarah was reported in various media outlets as having "won" a "talking to plants competition" against ten others.» 21:54:27 all the plants voted her the best speaker 21:55:36 i was going to "improve" that joke but the housemate started coughing 21:56:16 which makes my interest in life temporarily turn off. 21:58:11 oh i'm hungry, that makes _everything_ worse. -> 21:59:24 oerjan: I am coughing. 21:59:31 Perhaps I'm the housemate? 22:03:35 -!- btiffin has left. 22:07:22 you know if shachaf and oerjan were housemates all this time and neither of them realised 22:07:51 It'd be like me and elliott except so much more amazing 22:08:06 Especially since shachaf and oerjan are established to live in different countries 22:08:28 It's like narnia only with dicks 22:09:02 Bike, I can't get that comment to fit the context in any shape, way, or form 22:09:24 -!- augur has joined. 22:09:50 I had a dream that I was naked in the freezer at work with a bunch of other people, except I wasn't that cold. I took this as evidence that I'd be fine living in northernly areas. 22:10:37 You have a freezer big enough for a bunch of people to be in at your work? 22:10:52 No. It was bigger in the dream 22:10:57 Aaah 22:11:01 Taneb: where else would he keep his coworkers? 22:11:09 olsner, fridge. 22:11:09 Rather inefficiently packed in said dream, I might add. 22:11:20 Means you don't have to defrost them when you want one. 22:11:21 Just lots of open space for being naked in. Totally cost-ineffective. 22:11:49 I had a dream where I couldn't find the book where I write things I need to watch in 22:11:57 Well, I guess the real freezer can have a bunch of people in it at once, but it would be crowded. You'd also be surrounded by dead animals. 22:11:59 But I had something I needed to cross off 22:12:23 parts of animals, really. 22:12:30 (which I do, to be fair) 22:12:53 Probably not enough to reconstruct whole animals. I mean it's not like we store eyes or something. 22:13:05 Anyway 22:13:20 The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was enjoyable. 22:13:26 I recommend it. 22:13:52 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:14:04 I hear it has tits. 22:14:05 Where they're going, do they need eyes? 22:14:21 Bike, it references but does not actually show. 22:14:30 I don't think eyes are all that nutritious to humans, generally. 22:14:30 Except when it does. 22:14:36 Taneb: "what a shame" 22:15:27 I think it was a parody of high-school anime 22:15:34 Anyway, I shall now sleep 22:15:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:16:39 `addquote It's like narnia only with dicks 22:16:43 1014) It's like narnia only with dicks 22:17:35 Huh, did you know there's such a thing as a vitreous humor transplant? Maybe you could get it fro chickens. 22:19:42 Bike: i'm sure there are plenty of people who'd like to have feline eyes 22:19:43 -!- carado has joined. 22:19:54 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:20:02 (evidence: half of furrydom) 22:20:08 Oh you can just get contacts for that. 22:20:10 -!- augur has joined. 22:20:28 Ok, I definitely need to stop myself from getting highlighted by feline 22:20:35 i'm sure there are plenty of people who would like a more permanent solution 22:20:57 well vitreous humor wouldn't do it. you'd need, like, your iris replaced or some shit. 22:21:11 http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/ef66/ 22:21:40 Fiora has those. 22:22:05 http://a.tgcdn.net/images/products/zoom/ef66_brainwave_cat_ears.jpg 22:22:23 Somehow, this does not seem like the intended usage. 22:23:49 Fiora: do they actually work? 22:24:40 i'd suspect you'd want to hide that black thingy better 22:31:26 if the token after 'do', 'let', 'of', or 'in' is not an open brace, insert an open brace and remember the starting column of that token 22:31:30 where not in 22:32:03 that was discovered shortly afterwards 22:32:07 ok 22:32:39 also there are several ghc extensions that add extra keywords to the list. mdo, rec, and now \ case 22:32:50 and probably proc for arrows 22:32:54 you should read the logs backwards 22:32:58 yay! 22:33:13 olsner: but then my brain might stack overflow! 22:34:06 yeah, you should just read the whole log at the same time 22:34:50 but then my buffer-of-things-to-comment-on overflows instead D: 22:38:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:39:38 i think there's also a special rule that lets you write 'module Foo where' without then indenting the rest of the file 22:39:59 i think it's just that the first indentation block doesn't start until after that where 22:40:16 so there's no outer block you have to indent it more than 22:40:46 there was a couple more lines about that too (but not very conclusive iirc) 22:40:46 -!- carado has joined. 22:40:59 yeah it didn't look conclusive 22:41:01 hm... 22:41:20 `run (echo ' module Main where 22:41:22 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 22:41:23 argh 22:41:45 `run (echo ' module Main where'; echo 'main = putStr "It works!"') > Test.hs 22:41:49 No output. 22:41:57 `ghc Test.hs 22:42:14 `run printf '%s\n' ' foo' 'bar' 'baz' 22:42:17 ​ foo \ bar \ baz 22:42:28 … 22:42:29 ​[1 of 1] Compiling Main ( Test.hs, Test.o ) \ Linking Test ... 22:42:42 `ls 22:42:44 `run printf '%s\n' ' foo' 'bar' 'baz' | cat -A 22:42:44 bin \ canary \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ Test.o \ wisdom 22:42:45 ​ foo$ \ bar$ \ baz$ 22:42:48 `Test 22:42:49 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Test: not found 22:42:53 `./Test 22:42:54 It works! 22:43:17 olsner: ok so the "module" line itself isn't affected by layout. 22:44:58 `run printf '%s\n' 'foo' ' bar' 'baz' 22:45:00 foo \ bar \ baz 22:45:31 `run echo ' foo' 22:45:32 ​ foo 22:45:37 Huh. What’s up with that? 22:45:41 oh hm there wasn't anything wrong at the beginning 22:45:50 ion: up with what? 22:45:58 i see the initial space just fine 22:46:12 I don’t see a “foo” in the output. 22:46:20 heh 22:46:29 do you see this line? 22:46:36 sure 22:46:51 ok, maybe it's HackEgo's initial zero space doing it 22:47:05 i have no idea how to produce that in my client 22:47:17 *zero-width 22:47:17 -!- ion_netcat has joined. 22:47:25 `run echo ' foo' 22:47:26 ​ foo 22:48:04 `ord ​ foo 22:48:06 60 72 97 99 107 69 103 111 62 32 8203 32 32 102 111 111 22:48:07 Interesting. So it is WeeChat that’s broken. I’m running a nightly version. Let my try upgrading to a newer nightly. 22:48:22 `ord HackEgo> ​ foo 22:48:23 72 97 99 107 69 103 111 62 32 8203 32 32 102 111 111 22:48:48 oh it actually _does_ get copied if i make sure to include surroundings 22:49:00 `ord foo 22:49:02 32 32 102 111 111 22:49:08 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:49:11 `ord foo 22:49:13 32 32 102 111 111 22:49:19 `ord ​ 22:49:21 32 8203 32 32 22:49:31 suhweet. 22:50:28 ion: it could be an old bug given that HackEgo rarely prints things starting with space 22:51:46 `ord           ​‌‍‎‏ 22:51:48 8192 8193 8195 8196 8197 8198 8199 8200 8201 8202 8203 8204 8205 8206 8207 22:52:24 Whoops, I skipped one. 22:52:29 what the heck is a HAIR SPACE 22:52:46 Bike: it's that space you get on your head as you get older hth 22:52:53 It's "thinner than a thin space". 22:53:03 Also "in traditional typography, the thinnest space available". 22:53:08 (According to the "notes" field.) 22:53:09 Genius. 22:53:34 A thin space is "a fifth of an em (or sometimes a sixth)". 22:53:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:53:58 Three fifths of a space 22:54:51 Do not use secret data as an array index. 22:54:51 Early plans for NaCl would have allowed exceptions to this rule inside primitives specifically labelled vulnerable, in particular to allow fast crypto_stream_aes128vulnerable, but subsequent research showed that this compromise was unnecessary. 22:54:56 It seems I accidentally also the right-to-left mark and left-to-right mark. (U+200E and U+200F.) 22:55:01 kmc: Any idea what could've been going on there? 22:55:22 (They all look the same in gucharmap.) 22:56:30 That sounds like something djb would say. 22:56:50 Jafet: Everything djb says sounds like something djb would say. 22:56:55 Actually, it sounds like something he did say. 22:57:14 Well, djb is a big AXR fanboy. 22:57:48 @google aes cache timing site:cr.yp.to 22:57:52 http://cr.yp.to/antiforgery/cachetiming-20050414.pdf 22:57:52 Title: Cache-timing attacks on AES 22:58:19 AXR? 22:58:26 Addition/Xor/Rotation? 22:58:26 @google salsa20 AXR 22:58:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_37OduVkzSE 22:58:29 Title: salsa 20 sept 12 - YouTube 22:58:39 that video sounds good 22:58:41 Maybe it's called ARX. 22:59:38 video matched expectations 23:05:54 -!- ion_netcat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:06:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:08:50 -!- constant has changed nick to function. 23:09:22 @quote variable 23:09:24 alexbagel says: i find that my first 26 variables are always easy to name. after that it becomes a bit harder. 23:09:48 This is why mathematicians should learn their Greek. 23:10:52 ΑA, very helpful 23:12:38 x,y,z,x',y',z',x'',y'',z'', i don't see the problem. 23:12:53 x, x', x'', x''', x'''' 23:12:58 In fact no reason to use the x. 23:13:33 just use numbers as letters 23:13:56 solve: 0² + 401 + 1² = 22 23:14:04 > var <$> iterate (++"'") "x" 23:14:07 [x,x',x'',x''',x'''',x''''',x'''''',x''''''',x'''''''',x''''''''',x''''''''... 23:14:21 > var <$> iterate ('\'':) "" 23:14:24 [,','',''','''',''''','''''',''''''','''''''',''''''''','''''''''',''''''''... 23:14:29 could've been funny in a different way if he'd said 24 letters instead 23:15:22 23; βηθ. 23:16:04 digammas, digammas everywhere 23:16:59 "shadow chancellor" sounds like a much cooler office than it actually is <-- does he at least have a black cape? 23:17:35 oerjan: yeah, they do work, though they're more reactive to emotional state/excitement levels/etc than they are controllable 23:17:37 PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: When you /last and your irssi window gets cluttered with /last noise, you can use /last -cl to get rid of it 23:17:40 you could probably control them to some extent with practice 23:17:44 (re earlier) 23:17:48 I told elliott before and he was surprised. So now I'm telling y'all. 23:17:55 PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: irssi sucks. 23:18:11 is /last short for lastlog 23:18:12 Fiora: that sounds like missing the point 23:18:25 oh it is. well it's nice to abbreviate -clear 23:18:27 ? 23:18:38 Jafet: on the contrary, it indicates eternal mental fortitude over the cat ears 23:18:47 Vulcan cat ears 23:19:00 but basically they totally work and are really cute and etc 23:19:24 (other catches: the little box is kind of heavy, not horribly so but mostly due to batteries. the headpiece is really only hide-able if you have bangs, I do but many people don't) 23:19:35 er, foreheadpiece 23:19:38 shachaf: huh, is there something similar that can clear /whois or /ban results? 23:20:16 oerjan: I was asking elliott about clearing /ban results when I discovered he didn't know this. 23:20:22 aha 23:20:23 So if you find out, let me know! 23:22:53 also! there's like 3rd party covers for the ears that change their color 23:22:57 I have a pair that makes them purple 23:23:39 Are there covers that can change color? 23:24:26 um, I don't think so 23:24:28 is that how leopards work? 23:24:43 part of me also wants to like, make a pair of covers that look like troll horns 23:24:57 trolls don't have horns........ 23:25:17 hm what animals change color according to emotion rather than just camouflage? 23:25:35 humans hth 23:25:37 there's the ones that change color to communicate, right? 23:25:42 like um, octopi 23:25:50 and cuttlefish 23:25:58 chameleons change colour according to emotion sometimes i think 23:26:10 like when their emotion is "i want to hide now" 23:30:07 Fiora, it's OCTOPODES you PRETENTIOUS FUCK 23:30:45 it's octopodulars 23:30:47 octopæ 23:31:17 ???? >_< 23:31:44 hiding isn't an emotion fuckass 23:31:52 Phantom_Hoover: (i'm pretty sure octopi is a valid plural...) 23:31:58 octopopulus 23:32:03 octopedes 23:32:04 octopee 23:32:09 octopa 23:32:18 octopodagra 23:32:21 help 23:32:24 octodad 23:32:30 elliott, fsvo 'valid' 23:32:43 Bike: hiding is an action .. but feeling hidy would be an emotion 23:32:49 if you people start arguing about latin declensions so help me i will threaten you 23:33:09 I think it's supposed to be greek, hth 23:33:18 shut uuuuup 23:33:23 Phantom_Hoover: well octopodes seems equally pretentious 23:33:24 octopodim 23:33:26 compared to octopuses 23:33:35 imo let's argue about hebrew declensions 23:33:37 octoi 23:33:40 also what's a declension 23:33:41 (consider e.g. "forum", english plural "forums" not "fora") 23:33:42 shachaf: i already started hth 23:33:45 fiorums 23:33:59 shachaf: how you change nouns to fit... stuff. like gender marking and pluralization and stuff. 23:34:04 shachaf: that's when you change the vowels but keep the consonants, right? 23:34:15 elliott, yes, but it's also /correct/. 23:34:17 Also I don't know shit about Hebrew. 23:34:17 olsner: Uh, sometimes. 23:34:21 actipas 23:34:26 Is it true that you have singular, plural, and also dual? 23:34:30 Maybe dual is obsolete. 23:34:44 category theorists certainly use the dual 23:34:52 I said shut up! *points* 23:34:59 Bike: fun fact: sometimes if you want to put the definite article on something you put it on every one of the adjectives but not on the noun itself 23:35:05 but sometimes you also put it on the noun 23:35:10 tswett, 23:35:15 okay i'm being unfair here?? 23:35:30 imo duels are obsolete 23:35:31 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1b8wzp/my_shot_at_cont/c99jt8u 23:35:33 shachaf: genius 23:35:49 Sgeo.......... 23:35:54 "infinite type errors" 23:36:36 catpaes 23:36:41 imo let's throw Sgeo down a delimited continuation 23:36:42 > (\x -> x x) id 23:36:44 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> a0 23:37:45 Bike: oh and hebrew has a word for marking a direct object, which is good 23:37:49 why not just fix 23:37:57 what other language has a whole word reserved for that purpose 23:38:15 shachaf: imagining hebrewers snickering every time an englisher uses "whom" 23:38:29 i still don't know when to use whom 23:38:29 what's a direct object? 23:38:42 elliott: When you're making fun of prescriptivists. 23:38:51 olsner: "I hit him", him is the direct object. 23:38:53 elliott, the difference is the same as that between 'he' and 'him' 23:39:01 an indirect object is like the store in "I ran to the store" 23:39:10 "I ate a cat" has no direct object, right? 23:39:21 I'm pretty sure the cat is still a direct object. 23:39:23 "a cat" is the direct object there 23:39:41 Are you sure? 23:39:51 You wouldn't use the word there. 23:39:56 um, 80% sure? 23:40:01 Maybe it's a weird article thing. Hebrew has only a definite article. 23:40:18 and um why are you eating cats 23:40:39 Fiora: because they're delicious 23:41:08 them hebrews and their cat-eating 23:41:09 alt. for the same reason i eat cows 23:41:12 practice skinning them 23:41:14 I mean, the direct object can be something complicated. Like "something complicated" perhaps 23:41:14 99.26% sure here 23:41:32 or would it be "be something complicated". fucking auxilaries. 23:41:38 because there are so many different ways you have to get familiar with 23:42:30 Maybe I should get a copy of Syntactic Structures. Then whenever anybody asks me a grammar question I don't care about I'll just show them the CSG for English in the appendix. 23:42:42 WHERE'S YOUR LANGUAGE ORGAN NOW MOTHERFUCKER 23:42:42 Bike: i think "be" isn't considered to take an object, if that's what you mean. 23:43:00 it's not, i was wondering if the verb was "can" or "can be" 23:43:31 I be uncertain of that. 23:44:03 You be a fuckin' wanker. 23:44:25 Generally, Hebrew marks every noun in a sentence with some sort of preposition, with the exception of subjects and semantically indefinite direct objects. Unlike English, indirect objects require prepositions (as in "He gave me the ball"), and semantically definite direct objects are introduced by the preposition את /et/. 23:44:39 OK I WAS TALKING ABOUT SEMANTICALLY DEFINITE DIRECT OBJECTS 23:44:44 SORRY FOR BEING TOO FANCY FOR YOU 23:44:48 I have no idea what that means. Awesome. 23:45:05 an indirect object is like the store in "I ran to the store" <-- no "to the store" is a prepositional something. it's like him in "I gave him an apple" 23:45:24 -!- Bike has set topic: [semantically definite explanation of channel's purpose] | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 23:46:20 Bike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hebrew_grammar#Prepositions 23:46:27 now you know what i know 23:46:28 shachaf: hungarian doesn't have a word, but it has a _verb inflection_ for definite direct objects. 23:46:28 What can you tell me about Polish? 23:47:06 "literally I see /et/ the-book" literal translations are so easy 23:47:30 albook 23:48:42 I wonder why this making of 2001 thingy needs to thank the High Commission of Sri Lanka 23:49:43 Clarke lived there, so that's probably related? 23:50:24 huh. arthur c. clarke was gay. did not know that 23:50:34 "Olvastak egy könyvet." - i read a book. "Olvastam a könyvet." - i read the book. (from google translate, except for correcting first -m to -k because google doesn't understand the grammar i'm trying to demonstrate.) 23:50:35 I guess so... looks like this high commission thingy is like their embassy 23:51:08 maybe Clarke used to be a Tiger. 23:51:14 his younger, wild days 23:51:17 " Journalists who enquired of Clarke whether he was gay were told, "No, merely mildly cheerful."" 23:51:20 *pfff* 23:51:22 `slist 23:51:23 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 2013-04-07: 00:01:33 oerjan: Polish doesn't have that distinction 00:01:50 The best you get is "I read book" vs "I read this book" 00:02:21 oerjan: do you actually know hungarian? 00:02:38 FreeFull: i know polish doesn't have articles. hungarian not only has articles but the _verb_ is inflected dependent on them 00:02:53 olsner: i know some bits from back when my mom was trying to learn it 00:09:15 ok, I'll probably learn finnish long before learning hungarian 00:10:13 well that's natural for a scandinavian 00:10:22 although hungarian has more speakers, i think 00:11:19 ah spring and labor strike time in norway 00:15:56 I think I've spent more time in hungary than in finland actually 00:16:24 eek they say the shops might run out of beer and soda 00:16:39 oerjan's staple foods 00:16:46 * oerjan seeps his coke 00:16:52 elliott: well the soda part 00:17:20 *sips 00:18:29 how would one seep coke, i wonder 00:18:52 olsner: hm i don't think i've been in either 00:21:47 $ rm /etc/passwd 00:21:49 rm: cannot remove `/etc/passwd': Read-only file system 00:22:01 my favourite way to check if a filesystem is read-only 00:22:25 it checks that before permissions? 00:22:35 apparently 00:23:13 i guess that does make sense, since you'd have to fix it before fixing permissions anyhow 00:23:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:24:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:24:32 ais523: not recommended as root 00:24:45 elliott: yeah, I wasn't root 00:28:37 ln /var/games/crawl/logfile /etc/passwd 00:31:54 Jafet: hmm 00:32:22 can modern Linux systems function with a missing /etc/passwd, btw? 00:32:34 in theory they should, just consistently using numbers not names, although logging in would be a problem 00:33:08 oerjan: it must check that before permissions 00:33:17 because it must travel down from the root 00:33:44 -!- boily has joined. 00:33:52 oerjan: go to finland, hth 00:34:12 shachaf: but... then he'd end up in finland 00:34:39 function: ah 00:34:53 finland, finland, finland 00:35:16 oerjan: think about /far/bar/directory/file 00:35:29 on the filesystem which is mounted on /foo/bar 00:35:42 it will continue down to directory/file to make it doesn't cross a mount point again 00:35:50 no it won't hth 00:35:55 but at that point the *filesystem* code knows its readonly 00:36:12 so it never gets to the permission check 00:36:24 unless extra logic was added to check permissions before returning FS state 00:36:57 OKAY 00:37:34 o.O 00:37:39 oerjan: sorry if that was obvious 00:38:12 it was, also your example was mispled hth 00:38:32 YOU LOSE 2 POINTS 00:44:01 i want 3 points 00:45:05 * oerjan hands elliott 2 points and a button with "Winer" 00:46:13 where are my points? I demand my points. 00:46:40 sorry i had just the two i won from function 00:49:22 does that make me a whiner or a winner? 00:50:04 I DUNNO 00:56:21 it will be easier to understand you if you spell correctly, hth 01:00:33 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:01:41 -!- kmc has set topic: Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:03:57 olsner: hey why do you think i got the button so cheap... 01:04:51 I thought you made it 01:05:10 what, you think i can just create buttons out of thin air? 01:05:21 can't all norwegians? 01:05:29 nope. 01:05:35 hm yeah, this wire mesh supply spam is sent through Picasa 01:05:46 i wonder if that's some clever (and slightly ironic) trick for circumventing GMail's spam filter 01:05:52 -!- augur has joined. 01:05:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:06:11 only ski wax and fish smell 01:06:42 and it's not a very good ski wax, either. 01:09:19 (it's a very fishy smell) 01:15:17 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:16:07 -!- augur has joined. 01:28:07 olsner: you'll never be as much of an oerjan as oerjan 01:36:39 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323452204578288192043905634.html omg this article..................... 01:36:42 is this for real 01:36:49 elliott will like this 01:37:02 sometimes I think that April Fools is actually year-round 01:38:51 kmc: hoo boy 01:40:07 MISSION STATEMENT | At the center of the Kidder family's 'belief board' is a pledge 'to contribute our unique, God-given gifts' to improve 'the lives of others and the world.' It also lists a dozen core values, from faith to knowledge. 01:40:11 asdklfjgh 01:40:35 this article sounds good 01:41:31 'David Kidder is a serial entrepreneur, an author and the father of three boys. "If I've learned anything by starting four companies," he told me, "it's that young companies typically fail because you have a charismatic leader with a bunch of beliefs, but those beliefs don't translate to the rest of their company."' 01:41:38 yes 01:41:48 startups fail because the founders fail to brainwash the employees enough 01:42:18 couldn't be that their 'beliefs' are just fucking dumb 01:42:25 kmc: I like how he isb asically saying "I am charismatic" 01:42:36 yes 01:42:41 y'all know, maybe he's kidding. just saying. 01:42:43 too charismatic to fail 01:42:53 What a kidder 01:42:55 oerjan: perhaps you missed this paragraph: MISSION STATEMENT | At the center of the Kidder family's 'belief board' is a pledge 'to contribute our unique, God-given gifts' to improve 'the lives of others and the world.' It also lists a dozen core values, from faith to knowledge. 01:43:05 imo their system needs more SCRUM 01:43:10 when i hear 'charismatic leader' i think, like, jim jones and mao and hitler 01:43:30 They turned to a cutting-edge program called agile development that has rapidly spread from manufacturers in Japan to startups in Silicon Valley. 01:43:47 agile, originated at manufacturers in Japan (???) 01:43:47 kmc: there's also lula and gandhi, hth 01:43:57 Charismatic Successor 01:44:34 Lula? 01:45:50 also wait are we willingly reading wsj now 01:46:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lula 01:46:12 (hth) 01:46:17 Bike: yeah i dunno, i got a link from twitter 01:46:18 (thx) 01:46:23 "people were already making fun of it when I saw it, I promise" 01:46:24 yeah i figured you were linked 01:46:36 Bike: we have a bunch of hardcopy wsj at my house from a former housemate with a subscription he hasn't turned off 01:46:40 we're using it to grow mushrooms 01:46:40 haha 01:46:57 apparently Noam Chomsky said that you shouldn't buy the WSJ but you should steal it when possible 01:47:14 that's a bit surprising, i've never seen any good articles from them 01:47:26 I mean everybody remembers that salaries graphic right 01:48:28 no 01:48:36 Oh god that thing was great. 01:48:37 Bike: well maybe you should steal it to deprive them of revenues 01:48:40 ohhhhhh yes 01:48:41 i saw that 01:48:47 with all the sad looking people who make only $230,000 a year 01:48:57 right 01:49:06 kmc: Or more. 01:49:38 http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2013/01/16/wsj_fiscal_cliff_infographic/1358357370309.jpg.CROP.article568-large.jpg ah there it is 01:49:42 "I only make 10 times above average wage WHAAAA" 01:49:54 pretty much the most ridiculous rich person whining i've seen outside of tsarist newspapers 01:50:21 wsj is actually marxist black propaganda: discuss 01:50:25 wasn't wsj meant to be fairly good journalism albeit centre-right before rupert "evil" murdoch took it over or something 01:50:43 rupert murdoch is three skinny french communists inside a man-shaped robot 01:50:56 ps by centre-right I mean the US notion, also known as far right elsewhere 01:51:28 elliott: i think a lot of people read it for news about The Markets and I have no reason to think those are bad 01:51:33 hey y'all heard about that whole thing in hungary right? by "that whole thing" I mean "everything they're doing, what the fuck,, what" 01:51:34 kmc: continuing the wsj + families theme: How Machiavelli Saved My Family 01:51:39 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323646604578400804035071688.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read 01:51:41 really I don't know why they run lifestyle articles or politics or whatever else 01:51:44 except yes i do know 01:51:51 because it gets them page views AND HERE WE ARE 01:51:53 because #esoteric clicks on them 01:52:03 #esoteric is the true bourgeoise 01:52:03 Nothing here 01:52:13 it's ok by clicking that you tell their tracker thing that you got it from the "most popular" list 01:52:15 thanks oonbotti, you're a real friend. 01:52:18 you are lying to the man 01:53:33 so rupert murdoch has a tumblr now 01:53:44 http://murdochhere.tumblr.com/ 01:53:50 I hope it's all Homestuck shipping. 01:53:52 does he contribute anonymously to Phantom_Hoover's 01:54:42 I think this needs a rupertmurdochlookingatthings spinoff. 01:55:27 `run echo ' test' 01:55:29 ​ test 01:55:36 Still broken in a newer WeeChat snapshot. 01:55:54 I anyone running a release version of WeeChat? Do you see “test” in the response line? 01:56:03 `run echo ' test' 01:56:05 ​ test 01:56:27 works in irssi :» 01:56:33 yeah 01:56:34 Infocom games (with one exception) were written in ZIL, which is a variant of MDL, which is "a particularly unhelpful form of Lisp". Do you know about MDL? 01:56:41 ​ test 01:56:51 That wasn’t visible here either. 01:56:56 http://murdochhere.tumblr.com/image/45293956398 01:57:00 i like the completely pointless map of the world 01:57:03 What isn't visible here either? 01:57:15 zzo38: Not really. Should I know about MDL? 01:57:18 like do they actually forget where australia is in a meeting and go shit 01:57:24 better check our gigantic map screen 01:57:25 zzo38: The contents of the message i sent. 01:57:44 shachaf: I don't know. 01:58:00 ion: Your computer doesn't display the messages you enter? 01:58:03 elliott: Looks like it's more about the oceans. Are they perhaps in a large spaceship slash boat in the iddle of the Indian Ocean, which they need to orient? 01:58:19 zzo38: WeeChat doesn’t display the ones that begin with U+200B followed by a space. 01:58:20 seems plausible 01:58:27 lol 01:58:46 ion: Why doesn't it display those ones? It doesn't seem to make a lots of sense? 01:58:53 Because of a bug. 01:58:55 they're actually strategising for their deployment of dolphin-targeted news media 01:58:57 works here http://i.imgur.com/acTegjC.png 01:59:07 `ord > ​ t 01:59:08 62 32 8203 32 116 01:59:17 ` so ion cannot see this ? 01:59:18 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:59:32 c00kiemon5ter: Which version are you running? 01:59:40 not weechat 01:59:42 c00kiemon5ter: I can see that. 02:00:03 ​ and now it's time for secret ion chat hour 02:00:08 i like how murdoch occasionally just tweets things like this https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/status/317827503723008000 02:00:23 bike: IRC logs still work. :-P 02:00:36 elliott: haha what 02:00:37 i follow bill gates on twitter 02:00:48 it's 95% posts about fighting malaria and 5% cake recipes 02:00:50 bike: Apparently the format you used also triggers the bug. 02:00:51 ion: NO NOW YOU HAVE MY CREDIT CARD NUMBER D: 02:00:58 ​ test 02:01:00 also he has his own url shortener, bgat.es 02:01:06 ​test 02:01:16 What's .es again 02:01:20 spain 02:01:25 Ok, there can be any amount of spaces in front of the U+200B, but there must be at least one space after it to trigger the bug. 02:01:26 and why are like all cctlds used for url shorteners wtf 02:01:35 nonspacenonspace​ test 02:01:37 reino de españa 02:01:39 That was visible. 02:01:50 Bike: because a lot of words have two letters at the end hth 02:01:57 maybe i could register se.cx 02:01:59 kmc: you should get your own url shortener 02:02:01 you lied, it's b-gat.es, kmc 02:02:03 i'd like a refund 02:02:14 kmc.al 02:02:17 elliott: you should receive your bitcoins in the mail in 6-8 weeks 02:02:17 go.at 02:02:28 a url shortener for goat-related links, pics, and news 02:02:40 did i mention that someone extended shachaf.com.............. 02:02:48 :( 02:02:52 and they're still not using it for anything. and emails bounce 02:03:12 "Shachaf Engineering" 02:03:37 Austria. Austria likes goats, right? Perfect. 02:03:43 Goat-related links and pics, right. I wouldn’t expect it to be worksafe. 02:04:05 bike.com is about as dull as expected. 02:04:06 shachaf: nice 02:04:25 http://goatkcd.com/1194/sfw nsfw 02:04:32 a goat related link and picture 02:04:49 See, that could be go.at/cX4b 02:04:52 much more convenient 02:05:09 Bike: that's good because it's also go + at 02:05:32 Uh so? What's the point of that, you can't go at things. 02:05:46 what are you getting at 02:05:48 Don't be stupid. Be a Goat(TM) 02:05:57 goät 02:06:17 later i shut the site down in rage because goa trance people misuse it 02:06:55 -!- shachaf has set topic: Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| roald.dahl.net | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:07:13 roald DALnet 02:07:59 -!- shachaf has set topic: Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| roäld.dahl.net | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:08:47 xn--rold-moa.dahl.net, apparently. 02:09:36 shachaf: you should get a domain where both the unicode name and the punycode spell out different related things 02:09:39 punnycode 02:10:11 There is a distinct lack of English words that start with xn. 02:10:18 Ok, WeeChat 0.3.8 doesn’t have that bug. 02:10:46 xni, shachaf. xnachaf. 02:11:36 i'm a xni / a-xn--other-moa-xni 02:12:11 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:12:13 kmc: Can you make Haskell good without cross-module optimization? 02:13:25 Maybe s/module/package/, indeed. 02:13:34 oh that new pbf is p good. thanks for the notify 02:14:41 who else wants to be on `pbflist 02:14:51 `run cat bin/pbflist | r13 02:14:52 gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; rkvg \ funpuns \ Ftrb \ dhvagbcvn 02:16:10 i guess i'm dhvagbcvn 02:16:19 i like the idea that somebody lurks in here entirely for `list updates 02:16:23 shachaf: does JIT count (yes it does) 02:21:09 For a one time fee of 100 US dollars, 02:21:09 Nicholas Gurewitch will personally call you 02:21:09 from his home phone to notify you when he updates The Perry Bible Fellowship. 02:21:09 Service good for twelve (12) updates. Service available to US phone numbers only. 02:21:29 i think we should delete bin/pbflist in light of this service's existence 02:21:32 looks like you've got competition shachaf 02:21:41 it is not right to take away his profits like that 02:23:13 shachaf: btw that pbf is two weeks old 02:23:46 kmc: good point 02:23:54 kmc: ok can you make a haskell jit and make it good 02:24:00 &fast&cheap thx 02:24:13 is GHC bad? 02:24:33 ghc more like gaothc 02:26:51 go.at/hc 02:27:08 i think this is a sign that shachaf should jack up the price to be included on pbflist 02:27:23 True. 02:27:35 `run cp bin/{emptylist,pbflistdeluxe} 02:27:38 No output. 02:28:17 You can sign up for a dozen deluxe updates for $99. 02:28:42 What kind of service can we expect from the deluxe update service service? 02:30:08 Whenever I notice a new pbf update, I'll run `pbflistdeluxe, if I remember. 02:30:55 OK but how is this superior to the `pbflist that the masses have to use. 02:31:18 Um, it costs more? 02:31:32 Ahhhhh. 02:31:48 also shachaf has not promised to run the one for the masses if he remembers 02:31:59 I'll sign up for it. Do you take credit/ 02:32:13 I take bitcoins. 02:32:19 OK, that's not true. I don't take bitcoins. 02:32:38 I take cash? 02:32:39 litecoins? 02:32:44 Could you not take $99 worth of my bitcoins? 02:33:02 is that like 4 btc? 02:33:09 You don't have any bitcoins, you scum! 02:33:18 I don't know, quintopia, as I don't have any bitcoins. 02:33:26 quintopia: More like 0.0001 BTC. 02:33:29 I don't see why this means shachaf can't not take any of mine though. 02:33:35 shachaf: wow 02:33:56 last i paid attention 1btc=$10 02:34:27 Bike: were the 1960s actually real 02:35:06 IMO no, it was all a setup as part of Operation Condor. 02:35:17 shachaf: the Universe was created on the morning of Sunday, August 17, 1969 02:35:20 so mostly no 02:35:36 kmc: I think you mean January 1st 1970. 02:35:39 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:35:44 close but no 02:35:54 @google august 17 1969 02:35:55 Then why's that the zero point? 02:35:57 http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/woodstock-music-festival-concludes 02:35:57 Title: Woodstock Music Festival concludes — History.com This Day in History — 8/17/ ... 02:36:05 Oh. 02:36:08 Makes sense. 02:36:17 specifically the moment at which "White Rabbit" peaked 02:36:58 So you're saying that "White Rabbit" has been going downhill forever? 02:37:04 Whatever that is. 02:37:28 "White Rabbit" is a song from Jefferson Airplane's 1967 album Surrealistic Pillow. 02:37:28 jefferson airplane, right? 02:37:35 sweet i "know" "things" 02:37:39 not forever 02:37:47 just since the beginning of time 02:42:07 That's what forever means. 02:42:20 yes 02:42:30 For every x, for every y < x, WR(y) > WR(x) 02:42:45 also known as a "contravariant functor"?????????? 02:43:06 truly, the universe is just the Functor instance for Jefferson Airplane songs 02:43:30 a bitcoin is like $150 now 02:43:46 yes 02:43:52 elliott: whoa dude if you have this poset category of time then its opposite category is time running backwards 02:43:57 so crazy man....... 02:44:07 So how do you explain entropy? 02:44:16 elliott: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.msg1195#msg1195 02:44:30 Bike: the man keeping us down 02:44:33 $1,500,000 pizza 02:44:34 kmc: haha 02:44:55 man, I can't get away from the bitcoin talk 02:45:10 SO HOW BOUT THEM BITCOINS EH 02:45:12 EVERYONE QUIET WITH THE BITCOIN TALK 02:45:18 fucking bitcoins 02:45:21 CONTRAPUMPKIN IS HERE 02:45:26 how bout them turing machines, never know when they're gonna stop 02:45:27 to talk to us about time running backwards 02:45:35 sorry i'm distracted by the NewLibertyStandard username 02:45:35 -NickServ- contrapumpkin is not registered. 02:45:56 kmc: i want you to know i'm laughing at your last statement 02:46:12 copumpkin is over bitcoins 02:46:16 Oh man,there's someone named Heruspex. That's fucking bullshit. 02:46:32 I am proposing naming the Bitcoin-bong (the second smallest domination) a “laszlo” 02:46:44 shachaf: I think Japanese has を for marking a direct object. 02:46:52 bitcoin bong 02:46:53 now that he's trading a brazillion dollars a day of real money 02:47:05 not to be confused with brazilian dollars, which don't even exist 02:47:14 Sgeo: I've got reddit blackholed on my laptop. 02:47:21 i like that he doesn't even have 200 posts there 02:47:58 This is an open offer by the way.. I will trade 10,000 BTC for 2 of these pizzas any time as long as I have the funds (I usually have plenty). 02:48:13 yeah, totally over bitcoins 02:48:28 Which pizzas are those? 02:48:40 copumpkin is shorting USD now. 02:49:33 With respect to what? 02:49:38 (That's a meaningful question I just asked, right?) 02:49:40 Ah, litecoin is bitcoin with scrypt? 02:51:34 copumpkin should be longing USD instead. 02:51:48 that way it would be worth more and the economy would be saved. 02:51:55 because each USD would be longer when you measure it in gold. 02:52:04 I think I want to buy stock in myself. I think I'm a pretty good investment. 02:52:10 I'm not sure I could afford myself, though. 02:52:18 Let's see, how much am I worth, again? 02:52:23 elliott: Which economy? 02:52:30 *the* economy 02:52:50 -!- monqy has joined. 02:53:00 `relcome monqy 02:53:04 ​monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:53:10 Everything is connected, shachaf *jumps off a building* 02:53:16 I think $5,000,000 might be a good estimate of how much I'm worth. 02:53:16 hi shachaf 02:53:16 monqy: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 02:53:33 I could barely afford to buy one ten thousandth of myself. }:( 02:53:43 `cat bin/welcome 02:53:44 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 02:54:29 tswett: Maybe you could rent out some of your equity. 02:54:38 this script could be significantly simplified if the default user was switched to monqy 02:55:00 I guess I pretty much own 100% of myself already. 02:55:33 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:55:51 Would it be a good idea for me to sell 1% of myself for $50,000? I dunno, that might be too low a price. 02:56:15 I mean, sheesh, only $5,000,000? I like to think I'm worth more than that. 02:56:17 tswett: you'd be insane to do so, /and/ other people would be insane to accept 02:56:26 Ask yourself this: How much is your ¢2 worth? 02:56:33 I think it's worth about two cents. 02:56:44 ais523: hm. This is a difficult concept to understand. 02:56:46 I mean as a percentage of you. 02:56:52 Oh. 02:56:57 Uh... approximately 0%. 02:58:03 Here, here's a better idea. 02:58:12 Invest in my for-profit corporation instead. 02:58:51 you can't sell shares of yourself (in the US anyway) because of 13th amendment or something 02:59:00 Indeed. 02:59:11 I could, like, sign a contract to give a certain percentage of all my earned income or something. 02:59:16 This should tie into corporate personhood in a hilarious way 02:59:38 i'd buy shares in kmc 02:59:43 probably not anyone else here 02:59:43 aww thanks elliott 02:59:50 Aww. 02:59:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:59:56 Shares in bikes are always going up. 03:00:00 But the opposite kind of aww to kmc's aww. 03:00:11 well i am not even sure 80% of you actually exist 03:00:18 i have high standards 03:00:21 I'm pretty sure bikes exist. 03:00:28 I can prove that I exist! 03:00:34 Can not. 03:00:35 Theorem. There exists x such that x = tswett. 03:00:35 yeah but you haven't even written a haskell program 03:00:40 so 03:00:41 Proof. Let x = tswett. 03:00:53 module Main where main = return () 03:00:54 Uh dude how do you expect me to write Haskell programs? I don't even have fingers. 03:00:56 Boom. I exist. 03:00:57 Come on dude. 03:01:13 um pretty sure bikes have fingers 03:01:33 Do not *surreptitiously moves arm behind spokes* 03:01:37 kmc: uhh what if i'm not human 03:01:59 Non-humans don't exist. 03:02:01 Everything is human. 03:02:10 elliott: what do you mean you wouldn't buy shares in me 03:02:13 me! 03:02:13 Wait, no, there's one thing that isn't human. Uh, lemme think. 03:02:18 Bike: also you're, like, a biologist 03:02:27 Is that a problem. 03:02:29 what I'm saying is that there is pretty much no competition between you and kmc for my investment 03:02:32 biologist more like vile-ologist 03:02:32 yes of course it's a problem 03:02:33 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 03:02:41 Gee, I'm trying to remember here... 03:02:52 like I wouldn't buy shares in a speech recognition researcher, either! 03:02:52 Ah, right. I'm pretty sure it's R^4. 03:02:54 Look, I'm not saying I'm as good an investment as kmc. Just that you should consider broadening your portfolio. 03:02:58 R^4 isn't human. Everything else is human. 03:03:02 With bikes. 03:03:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:03:20 but you're not a bike. you're Bike 03:03:47 i could buy like 2 kmcs for the cost of one bike 03:03:55 lern2capitalize(your sentences, not on your opportunities) 03:04:07 Capitalize me by giving me money! 03:04:14 I thought you wanted me to have a seven letter uncapitalized name, shachaf. Why the flip flopping? 03:04:29 $10 a share, eh? Eh? Eh? 03:04:30 Bike: See, you don't even know where to begin. 03:04:39 Bike: You're so unrefined. 03:04:50 Bike: Part of the skill of knowing when to capitalize is knowing when *not* to capitalize. 03:04:52 That just means I have potential. As an investment. Of your money. 03:05:03 OTHERWISE YOU COULD JUST SHOUT EVERYTHING. YOU'D BECOME THE ANTI-MONQY 03:05:25 yes 03:05:36 i'm watching The Walking Dead and i don't get why nobody yet has said "Holy shit, this is just like a zombie movie!" 03:05:50 Do they usually do that in zombie movies? 03:05:59 does this take place in an alternate universe where zombie movies never existed 03:06:01 i don't know shachaf 03:06:12 not really 'into' zombies 03:06:16 Well, if they don't usually do it in zombie movies, then that would explain it. 03:06:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:06:25 not really 03:06:28 it would no longer be ""just like a zombie movie"" anymore if you take my meaning 03:06:36 ow my brain 03:06:57 intertextuality sucks, kc 03:06:58 kmc 03:07:18 is "if you take my meaning" a hebrew idiom 03:07:32 no it's an english idiom 03:07:38 isn't it 03:07:49 @google if you take my meaning 03:07:51 http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/if-you-take-my-meaning 03:07:51 Title: if you take my meaning - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - ... 03:07:58 cambridge.org, qed 03:08:03 i think you mean "if you get my meaning" 03:08:19 i think you mean "if you know what i'm saying" 03:08:26 die 03:08:50 If you know what I mean AND YOU DON'T FUCK YOU 03:09:16 elliott: Apparently it's UK slang. 03:09:30 You're just too Americanised to understand it. 03:09:44 Er, not slang. An idiom. A UK idiom. 03:09:52 Phrase? 03:09:59 nah’m’sayin’ 03:10:06 "ised" - shachaf 03:10:19 elliott: it's true i'm 1000% british 03:13:20 can i be british too 03:13:51 know what i mean, wink wink, nudge nudge 03:14:08 only if you stop reading super mega comics ...... forever 03:14:11 said the actress to the bishop 03:14:30 in bed 03:15:23 Say no more, say no more. 03:15:32 SEX 03:16:52 uh Bike everyone was making telemarketer euphemisms 03:17:43 what if theyre telemarketing.....the nasty.... 03:18:27 how nasty 03:19:02 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:33:12 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 03:37:07 -!- btiffin has joined. 03:41:55 -!- conehead has joined. 03:44:59 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:07:58 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:09:39 Someone made up "Affirmative Spelling" which means the capitalization is reversed. But, it is also what will happen if you try to display a ASCII file on a Commodore 64 computer or vice versa. 04:10:03 ok 04:10:29 Shame not all of PETSCII is in Unicode. 04:10:38 Displaying a Commodore 64 computer on an ASCII file is madness. 04:10:57 oh, which characters aren't? 04:11:04 i was just wondering about characters that aren't in unicode 04:11:27 Looks like 'bout half of the graphic chars. 04:11:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64_Petscii_Charts.png hmmmmm 04:13:00 pikhq: I know; Unicode has various problems. My own character set (for a computer I am designing) does include all of PETSCII in its 16-bit set (and without all of the nonsense of Unicode; character properties are not used, control characters are all in one block, etc) (it normally uses 8-bit sets, although there is a mapping between them) 04:13:54 Bike: I mean displaying a file of Commodore 64 in a computer which is using ASCII, not displaying a computer on a file! 04:14:18 :o 04:17:25 Can there be the voltage/phase colorspace which convert to/from YUV and YIQ, and then you can convert to other colorspace? 04:17:59 It seem, it might be three components (low voltage, high voltage, phase) and then if the low and high is the same it will be gray, or, something like that? 04:19:01 Do you know? 04:19:09 I don't know. 04:22:02 -!- function has changed nick to variable. 04:28:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:28:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:28:25 -!- Bike has joined. 04:29:08 Maybe you would do something like calculate the sine and cosine of the phase to make the U and V signal, and the voltage makes the Y signal. 04:39:17 -!- augur has joined. 04:39:55 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:40:01 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:01:15 nite 05:01:39 Have any of you make any Z-machine interpreters? 05:02:19 -!- btiffin has left. 05:03:22 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:10:25 Hm, this is boring. 05:26:16 you're boring, Bike 05:26:33 Yes, "this" was referring to myself, of which I am an occupant. 06:21:09 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:27:26 Probably it is possible to make a program to compile a subset of Internet Quiz Engine into Z-machine version 1 (the only lacking feature is the timer). Many of the features of Z-machine would not be needed, though. 06:34:13 Stop losing all the time, please. 06:37:27 It's actually quite odd that, on a hierarchical file system, /usr/bin is a big flat directory. 06:37:36 Why isn't it hierarchical? 06:37:58 Perhaps so that all of the files fit in the PATH? 06:38:16 This question usually appears whenever I boot up a different linux system and wonder what programs are available. 06:39:44 Sometimes listing /etc gives you an idea of a system faster than listing /usr/bin. 06:44:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:45:38 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 06:46:46 OK, then do that, instead. 06:58:33 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:58:51 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 07:04:53 -!- coppro has joined. 07:13:24 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:26:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:34:12 I am now playing dwarf fortress via mosh 07:40:34 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: bored and tired). 07:41:10 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:51:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:58:16 Description of coke in Dwarf Fortress: 07:58:18 "This is a coke." 07:58:49 Are you sure that was the entire description 07:59:06 Pretty sure 07:59:31 Seems accurate. 07:59:42 Wait, was the description talking about itself, or about the coke? 07:59:52 Good question 07:59:59 Or was it talking about the game? Or your screen? 08:00:10 But what would you use coke for? 08:00:14 Would you drink it? Smoke it? 08:00:21 Snort it? Use it as fuel? 08:00:40 Ceci n'est pas un coke 08:12:33 /* Writing: cosine = (double (*)(double)) dlsym(handle, "cos"); would seem more natural, but the C99 standard leaves casting from "void *" to a function pointer undefined. 08:12:33 The assignment used below is the POSIX.1-2003 (Technical Corrigendum 1) workaround; see the Rationale for the POSIX specification of dlsym(). */ 08:12:52 *(void **) (&cosine) = dlsym(handle, "cos"); 08:18:58 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:25:54 -!- carado has joined. 08:50:45 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:50:46 -!- ogrom has joined. 08:50:48 They could've just added the void (*dlfun(void *, const char *))(void) back when definating POSIX, and then you could do the more natural thing. (I guess that would have made less things POSIX by default.) 08:51:00 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 08:54:36 Natural? But this is POSIX. 08:55:14 `slist 08:55:18 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:55:33 -!- nooga has joined. 08:56:11 Taneb: plz arrange for olist update by the end of next week thx 08:58:33 Alas, that is not within the scope of my power 09:02:17 [http://stackoverflow.com/a/10519415] 09:02:32 void (*fptr)(); void *temp = dlsym(handle, "my_function"); memcpy(&fptr, &temp, sizeof fptr); 09:03:30 I like how people are writing code that depends on POSIX to be portable to systems which aren't POSIX. 09:07:49 Is it possible to use mosh for file transfer 09:08:44 Taneb: base64 + copy-and-paste hth 09:42:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:45:54 :t Cont . flip all 09:45:56 Not in scope: data constructor `Cont' 09:45:56 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:45:56 `Const' (imported from Control.Applicative), 09:45:59 :t cont . flip all 09:46:01 [a] -> Cont Bool a 09:46:03 @let all' = cont . flip all 09:46:06 Defined. 09:46:11 :t all' [1,2,3] 09:46:13 Num a => Cont Bool a 09:46:27 :t do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) } 09:46:28 ContT Bool Identity Bool 09:46:31 :t evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) } 09:46:33 Not in scope: `evalCont' 09:46:40 @let evalCont = flip runCont id 09:46:42 Defined. 09:46:43 :t evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) } 09:46:44 Bool 09:46:48 > evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (x > 5) } 09:46:50 False 09:47:02 :t runCont (do { x <- all' [1..10]; return (show x) }) ?x 09:47:04 (?x::String -> Bool) => Bool 09:47:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:48:23 :t evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; y <- all' [11..20]; return (x > y) } 09:48:24 Bool 09:48:32 > evalCont $ do { x <- all' [1..10]; y <- all' [11..20]; return (x < y) } 09:48:35 True 09:51:54 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 10:25:05 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:31:45 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:33:42 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 10:37:33 {Y: {(rf): {(f):f(f)}( {(f): rf({(x): f(f)(x)})} )}} 10:55:25 "Assuming sizeof(unsigned long long) is 64 ..." sounds like a safe assumption 10:58:57 You sound like one of those whiners who don't have 512-bit computers. 11:01:34 only a matter of time until my puny 64-bit hardware is completely useless :( 11:06:22 -!- monqy has joined. 11:10:34 uint64_t 11:10:43 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:32:36 You'll still need it to run the legacy 32-bit apps. 11:32:50 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:48:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:59:17 Jafet: 64 bit hardware can still run 16-bit stuff 11:59:25 Are you suggesting 512 bit won't? 11:59:46 I... hope not. 12:03:28 Since machines will be so fast, what stops us from using emulators? 12:06:38 :t all' 12:06:40 [a] -> Cont Bool a 12:07:01 Machines may not get faster 12:11:25 > evalCont $ all' [1..3] 12:11:27 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Bool) 12:11:27 arising from the literal `1... 12:11:39 Oh, I see 12:11:46 with 8 or 16 times larger words, they might be a lot slower even 12:59:46 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:59:53 -!- carado has joined. 13:15:26 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 14:06:23 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:06:54 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:12:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:12:42 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:50:58 @tell Taneb no, Mosh doesn't do file transfers yet 14:50:58 Consider it noted. 14:52:16 I wish I knew what avocado tastes like 14:52:34 I've tried eating bacon. It's boring. 14:53:34 i can think of an excellent way to find out how avocado tastes 14:53:42 ps american bacon doesn't count as bacon 14:58:50 canadian bacon, however… 15:00:58 i don't know anything about canadian bacon 15:01:04 iirc it's good bacon 15:01:08 but canada is almost america so its chances aren't good 15:01:09 if there's a difference at least one of you is wrong 15:02:34 wait actually it's bad bacon 15:02:34 canadian bacon is the american name for british bacon 15:02:58 hi 15:03:02 hi nooodl 15:03:23 "Back bacon (called Irish bacon/Rashers or Canadian bacon in the United States[citation needed])" 15:03:45 monqy: well canadian bacon is awful then 15:03:49 because it is taking credit!!!! 15:03:51 wrongly!!! 15:05:02 but yeah streaky bacon is awful, crispy, fatty crap 15:05:13 yes 15:05:44 elliott: canadian bacon is not made of canadians? 15:06:44 are we even sure canadian bacon exists 15:08:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_mania 15:08:24 A 2009 Baltimore Sun story describes bacon as being "more than bacon," 15:08:39 Calling it "like an extreme sport," 15:09:37 and people think deep-fried mars bars are bad 15:09:42 an article starting with the words "All Hail Bacon!" noted that a Poynter Institute report found bacon taking the social media networks "by storm" and that the meat's popularity is "now practically at an epidemic pace, as all of these socially interactive sites are literally pulsating with posts, updates, comments, even clubs / groups dedicated exclusively to the LOVE of Bacon!" 15:10:13 bacon mania is the worst thing 15:10:59 bacon itself is still good though 15:11:10 what kind of bacon do you have in sweden 15:11:22 is it nice bacon or crap bacon 15:11:24 we have bacon 15:11:26 "Negative publicity surrounding swine flu, which is not transmitted via pork product consumption,[45] hit sales and prices in the pork industry." 15:11:49 It does occur to me though that by consuming bacon, it encourages people to keep pigs around, which is relevant to swine flu 15:11:58 Phantom_Hoover: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bacon.jpg 15:12:07 that's crap bacon, olsner 15:12:16 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Bacon.JPG nice bacon 15:12:32 Phantom_Hoover: that's like ham or something 15:12:32 * Sgeo has never seen bacon that looks like that 15:12:40 It looks like strips with stripes 15:12:54 yes, this is because you have only known crap bacon 15:13:21 guys I think we need to observe this sentence some more: A 2009 Baltimore Sun story describes bacon as being "more than bacon", 15:13:33 And not as long as http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Bacon_and_egg_sandwich_-_open_face.JPG 15:13:41 it's more than bacon, it's *back bacon* 15:13:42 bacon mania can die in a hole & rot 15:13:48 Sgeo: by "american bacon doesn't count" do you think i was just making up the idea of there being other types of bacon than what, or 15:13:54 *what is common in america 15:14:14 Dat bacon and egg sandwich… enjoy your extremely-dry bread. 15:14:29 I should start eating eggs 15:14:29 Egg sandwiches call for /buttered/ bread. 15:14:35 monqy, what would your opinion be of bacon mania for normal bacon 15:14:38 I wonder if the cafeteria offers hard-boiled eggs 15:14:46 Or if you're British and like eating rat snot, Marmite on bread. 15:15:02 isn't marmite more of an australian thing 15:15:06 i have never eaten marmite, i am fairly content with this 15:15:12 I've tried eating buttered bagels, but I have difficulty spreading the butter 15:15:17 It just sits on a lump 15:15:21 elliott: Vegemite is Australian, Marmite is British. 15:15:25 i feel like i should attempt to be ambivalent about marmite 15:15:33 because the whole love it or hate it marketing campaign thing is obnoxious 15:15:34 They're the same thing, but "Marmite" under that name doesn't exist in Australia. 15:15:44 i've never had it though 15:15:44 Phantom_Hoover: food obsession to a degree like that of bacon mania is hell irrespective of what what food it's about 15:15:51 i can't imagine it's terribly offensive 15:15:52 I need to stop eating tic-tacs as though they were candy 15:15:57 elliott: It really is. 15:16:03 Sgeo, they literally are candy 15:16:03 well it's basically just salt right 15:16:14 no 15:16:16 Gregor, you hate pizza, your opinions don't count. 15:16:20 sticky salt on toast doesn't sound so bad 15:16:24 it's, like, leftovers from brewing 15:16:29 elliott: It's less like salt than like earwax. 15:16:31 well i mean 15:16:33 in terms of flavour 15:16:39 Gregor: hmmm 15:16:42 It tastes like dying. 15:16:44 well earwax doesn't taste that awful 15:16:49 well i mean it does... 15:16:54 instead of buttering the egg sandwich bread, just fry it in the leftover bacon fat 15:16:57 but it's probably not that earwaxy 15:17:12 mmmm i want bacon 15:17:15 i wonder if there is any 15:17:27 in which elliott is part of the problem 15:17:28 instead of buttering the egg sandwich bread, just fry it in the leftover bacon fat // now that's a plan 15:17:50 2 calories per mint is kind of low... also, lots of sorbitol 15:17:56 monqy: i categorically cant participate in `bacon mania' because i dont consume the type of bacon it concerns 15:18:03 Wait these don't have sorbitol 15:18:09 i mean bacon isn't anything that special of course 15:18:17 but everyone is talking about it 15:18:17 so 15:18:19 bacon is pretty good; chinese pork belly dishes are also really good 15:18:32 Can I get bacon on hamburgers? 15:18:35 With avocado? 15:18:38 yes you can, sgeo 15:18:44 Maybe avocado separate for the first time I try oit 15:18:45 *it 15:18:47 And a banana 15:18:50 ok 15:18:51 avocado doesn't really taste of much 15:18:53 (Not on the hamburger) 15:18:56 i like avacado 15:18:59 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm twice cooked pork with leeks 15:19:02 and avacado products 15:19:04 Phantom_Hoover, like every other food that people consider awesome! 15:19:14 Steak, hamburger, bacon... 15:19:15 Sgeo have you considered that you may be anosmic 15:19:27 steak is vastly overhyped 15:19:29 But I can smell aromas just fine! 15:19:33 its like bacon mania but less obnoxious 15:19:41 Steak smells awesome... it just doesn't taste like anything 15:19:45 steak is p. good imo 15:19:51 monqy has never had my sous vide steak 15:20:22 avocado is basically a tree that grows butter 15:20:33 Although that was my opinion when I was younger 15:20:34 that's a pretty good description 15:20:37 guacamole is delicious but the flavor comes from the other parts 15:20:42 mostly 15:21:00 Some people elsewhere have suggested that it's because I've only ever eaten well-done steaks 15:21:06 um 15:21:07 yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh gross 15:21:09 why would you do that 15:21:14 you gotta have your stake juicy 15:21:16 you are asking for ruined food 15:21:21 at this juncture i am just going to link to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNJdJIwCF_Y because it is amazing 15:21:31 literally "chef could you plz ruin my food before you give it to me" 15:21:37 The chef was my mom 15:21:40 oh 15:21:41 welp 15:21:53 get a medium rare steak and season it with garlic and salt and maybe steak sauce 15:22:02 But is medium rare unsafe? 15:22:06 no 15:22:08 Also I love garlic salt 15:22:11 literally "chef could you plz ruin my food before you give it to me" // 'struth 15:22:14 unless you are like an elderly baby with aids 15:22:42 prob. fine even then 15:23:13 healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage 15:23:24 sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes 15:23:40 Medium wouldn't be bad, right? 15:23:42 * kmc , M.D. 15:23:51 i think there is some risk of parasites? but nothing worth worrying about 15:23:52 medium will probably taste all right too 15:24:09 it also depends on the quality of the original meat; you can get sushi grade beef that is safe to eat raw 15:24:20 supposedly it's really really good 15:24:23 ..wtf how does that work 15:24:32 sear it quickly in a pan on high heat to get the outside crunchy 15:24:43 Sgeo: i don't know, maybe they are extra careful about the cow's health 15:26:10 also extra careful about not cross contaminating with other meats 15:26:35 note to self: don't read alarmist blog posts about toxoplasmosis 15:27:19 Is there a way to determine if I have toxoplasmosis? 15:27:39 hmm, looks like sendmail can also do string rewriting in loops 15:27:43 why would you expect to have toxoplasmosis exactly 15:27:51 do you feel a powerful urge to be eaten by a cat 15:28:08 olsner: http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/sendmail-as-turing-machine.txt 15:28:20 Have been living with a cats my whole life. At once point had to take care of someone else's cats which were all strays until she took them in 15:28:27 hm i wonder what being eaten by a cat would be like 15:28:37 kmc: cool 15:28:51 This apartment has become a shithole with the cat getting litter everywhere 15:29:09 Sgeo don't become a crazy cat lady 15:29:16 I think that's a sign of not maintaining your cats properly 15:29:31 I'm not a crazy cat lady. I want the cat out of here. 15:29:58 cats are wonderful though 15:30:01 And my dad to pay to get the apartment professionally cleaned. 15:32:18 -!- ogrom has joined. 15:45:54 update: i have obtained bacon and am now looking at ridiculous "bacon mania" things to feel smug about it 15:46:02 haha 15:46:04 bacon cotton candy. bacon vodka 15:46:20 (*candy floss in real countries) 15:46:25 (but probably it's fake candy floss too?) 15:46:31 bacon is like The Beatles in that they're both pretty good but I'm almost obliged to hate them because of how overrated they are 15:46:38 however I don't hate bacon at all 15:47:30 i just feel kinda sorry for americans who have to grow up knowing the word "bacon" as meaning something totally inferior to what i know as bacon 15:48:47 what do you know as bacon 15:49:04 back bacon 15:49:07 i hear americans call it canadian bacon 15:49:31 ok 15:49:36 both good imo 15:49:53 thin & crispy is also a fine way for food to be 15:49:57 mmmm 15:50:12 do people use the word "rashers" in the US? 15:52:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:55:20 i've not heard it, what does it mean? 15:56:53 a piece of bacon 15:57:33 its when your skin gets all red and rough 15:57:55 lol 16:01:04 'canadian bacon' is pretty popular in america though 16:01:13 especially as a pizza toping 16:02:36 and a breakfast food with eggs 16:03:12 And another way to make fun of Canada. 16:03:52 'ha ha, you have delicious meats' 16:04:12 brb going to eat sichuan food 16:05:45 egg is kinda weird imo 16:05:50 i don't know what i mean by that 16:05:52 its' something quite specific 16:06:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:06:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:07:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:07:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:09:38 i like egg it's good 16:12:07 i just casually emailed Ian Piumarta 16:12:51 Now you feel like I feel all the time 16:12:51 Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:12:56 Wow 16:13:01 Someone sent me a message 16:13:08 I wonder what wonders it contains 16:13:11 It could be magical 16:13:13 @messages 16:13:14 kmc said 1h 22m 16s ago: no, Mosh doesn't do file transfers yet 16:13:19 Yay! 16:13:27 I love my life 16:13:30 monqy: it's weird 16:13:34 it can be like ten things 16:13:37 egg is an identity crisis 16:13:40 it doesn't know what it wants to do 16:13:47 whew, I just had this weird idea that Taneb is Ian and he somehow recieves mail by lambdabot 16:14:05 egg? That tastes like chicken. 16:14:40 It tastes of chicken in potentia 16:14:54 yes, that was the joke 16:23:35 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 16:24:38 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:28:29 Z 16:29:28 z 16:31:51 . 16:38:52 :0 16:43:40 -!- conehead has joined. 17:11:22 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 17:13:52 I think it's probably a bad thing to consume a thing of tic-tacs in two days 17:14:22 Nah 17:14:25 You'll be fine 17:14:37 Depends on how big of a thing it is 17:14:48 The cashier might look at me funny if I buy tic-tacs again so soon 17:14:56 60 tic-tacs 17:15:59 do you mean 60 tic-tacs 17:16:06 or 60 boxes of tic-tacs 17:16:20 because i can definitely see you getting funny looks for the latter 17:16:46 -!- Bike has joined. 17:17:34 60 tic-tacs. One box 17:18:54 sgeo do you really think anyone is going to waste the effort to judge you for eating two boxes of fucking tictacs 17:19:12 -!- monqy has joined. 17:19:53 paranoid thinking... 17:20:46 Sgeo, maybe the cashier will think you are a generous person with a lot of friends 17:21:14 maybe 17:21:17 How are tic-tacs supposed to be consumed? 17:21:19 in the worst case scenario 17:21:27 Just one or two on occasion? 17:21:28 they will think "that guy kind of likes tictacs" 17:22:19 you should switch cashiers so they don't recognize you 17:22:22 wear a mask 17:22:25 get a friend to buy them for you 17:22:31 Sgeo, however you want. They're mints. 17:22:34 cross dress 17:22:36 meant to be consumed in the dark ritual of Oolak-Oolak 17:22:47 monqy: you forgot crossing the border to buy them 17:22:50 anything to prevent them from knowing you ate all those tic tacs 17:22:54 mexican tic tacs 17:22:57 elliott, need to cross at least 2 borders 17:22:59 Blah, I should be eating higher calorie things anyway 17:23:04 Phantom_Hoover: point 17:23:10 hexham tic-tacs 17:23:18 skip town 17:23:20 guatemala or belize, at the very least 17:23:22 we have the finest tic-tac brewery in all of england 17:23:34 I should find out what snacks are there. I'd be comfortable with sugary high-calorie snacks everyday 17:23:39 These are not high calorie 17:23:44 tic-tac production started here in 1764 and have been hand-made since 17:23:54 hence why hexham is often referred to as home of the tic-tacs 17:24:49 so it's exactly where they'd expect Sgeo to buy tic-tacs 17:25:02 it'll be heavily monitored, too 17:25:35 Also, tic-tacs in the container make a lot of sound 17:25:52 Walking through a quiet cubical farm while tic-tacs are rattling loudly is kind of embarrassing 17:26:00 Is it true that there is a statue of six pigs in the Hexham town square? 17:27:18 yes 17:27:36 inscribed beneath is "tic taccus" (latin for "be nice") 17:28:37 Sgeo: you could put them in a larger box or bottle stuffed with cotton and packing peanuts 17:28:44 Sgeo: and then put that in a paper bag 17:28:57 why not just kill the cashier 17:28:59 take a swig of tic tacs and nobody will know your shame 17:29:15 they'll think it's like 17:29:21 idk what do people usually drink from paper bags 17:29:24 sandwiches? 17:29:43 drink a sandwich 17:30:11 i hear canada gets their milk in bags 17:30:29 "Argent, hex ham rampant carnation." 17:31:41 -!- boily has joined. 17:33:17 (the coat of arms for Hexham) 17:34:02 i thought they got their milk in tetrahedra 17:35:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:36:09 "The video ends with the man being shown with black eyes: he has also been infected." 17:36:45 can't you buy tic-tacs online by the case 17:37:03 AND THEN THE MAN WAS A ZOMBIE 17:37:56 Cut Out The Middleman as they say 17:38:28 but what if the website judges him 17:38:44 a popup, I can see it now, "dude, why are you buying all those tic tacs" 17:38:47 better burn down your house and change your name and grow a beard and move to a shack in the woods in montana just in case 17:38:47 "you have a problem?" 17:39:03 btw never buy the blue 'powermint' tic tacs, they are mad nasty 17:39:18 kmc, send orders for tictacs to universities across trhe country? 17:39:31 And airfields 17:39:56 im not very keen on tic tacs, or drug lingo at all for that matter 17:41:23 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 17:42:35 http://www.zazzle.com/tictacs+gifts shame by association with whoever made/buys/enjoys these things 17:43:33 Phantom_Hoover: yes 17:50:29 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:03:00 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:12:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:13:52 -!- Bike has joined. 18:28:01 why do areola sizes vary so much? 18:28:22 why does anything vary so much 18:28:33 why do tic-tacs vary so much 18:28:58 Why do wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册 so much? 18:29:03 doesthiswork: So that all boobs are unique. 18:29:14 government plot to track us using our boobs 18:29:32 yes, but mens areolas are pretty consistently the same size 18:30:13 so if was just relaxed selection i would expect both sexes to vary 18:30:38 doesthiswork, in my experience men's areolas do vary a bit. 18:30:44 Mine, for example, are relatively small 18:30:54 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:30:55 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:31:12 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:31:28 they vary from size of a penny to the size of a dollar coin 18:31:41 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:31:46 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:32:00 while women's go from penny size to a little smaller than a cd 18:32:20 There's more tissue there for the areola to spread over. 18:32:54 that is true, bigger boobs tent to have bigger areolas 18:33:09 Author a study on it 18:33:18 Perhaps you'll get an Ig Nobel prize 18:33:31 I'd definiatly be in the running 18:33:59 imo menopause is weirder than boobs could ever be 18:39:02 apparently number of nipples is 14% heritable 18:40:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:41:37 wtf 18:41:42 why are you talking about breasts 18:42:08 doesthiswork is going for the ig nobel 18:43:53 The nobel prize in breasts. 18:44:39 The breast nobel prize. 18:44:49 Also, it's Ig Noble. 18:44:52 it is the best 18:45:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:46:25 wat is going on here 18:47:25 we were discussing typeclasses in haskel 18:48:28 My favourite is Foldable 18:52:07 traversable is pretty neat too 18:53:44 Num, am I right!! 18:54:15 Oh, right Haskell 18:54:29 Haskell looks like Greek to me 18:54:36 Or in this case, rather strange English 18:54:38 ... 18:55:15 if you prefer there is a skin for it called liskell 18:55:22 i think it's like hebrew 18:55:30 that give you everything in s-expressions instead 18:55:32 i looked it up before but then i forgot. 18:56:53 http://wormtube.worms2d.info/extras/Cueshark%20-%20Wormsong%20in%20Minor.mp3 18:58:12 here's a cool video about bipedal robots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRbvNL1PHKg 18:58:30 (haters gotta hate) 18:59:52 Is this gonna be PETMAN 18:59:54 yes. 19:00:35 i admit I don't understand how it could be cost effective to make a fucking android just to see if your NBC suits work. 19:00:49 I think that was just an excuse 19:01:06 Quite possibly! 19:01:26 Oh man the music even matches the gait. 19:01:34 well, mostly. 19:01:48 looks like there are cuts in the video too 19:02:05 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 19:02:17 well yeah, it was like a thirty second demonstration. 19:02:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrjrgBV8K0 They have that newer video where it has a head instead of a strobe. 19:06:40 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:06:51 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:07:50 -!- yiyus has joined. 19:08:27 Bike, interesting, but can it turn and so on? That is a very fixed one direction walk (only watched the first video so far) 19:08:35 what about stairs 19:08:38 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 19:09:10 Their site has http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/petman512.jpg 19:09:33 also http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/petman-poses-512.jpg jazzin it up 19:09:35 that is a fixed image 19:09:44 hm 19:09:53 yes as it turns out i don't work at boston dynamics and can't get you more information than they've released 19:10:15 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:10:16 fair enough 19:10:39 -!- augur has joined. 19:11:17 Stairs would probably be a common use case for testing rips and stuff, though. 19:14:35 and of course bending over 19:16:11 seems useful to test if e.g. bending the fabric the wrong way when walking will break it down and let in the death viruses 19:21:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:22:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:28:41 I AM TIRED OF THIS APARTMENT SMELLING LIKE SHIT 19:29:30 OK 19:31:48 * kmc makes a note to stop shitting in Sgeo's apartment 19:32:12 random Sunday question: has anyone of you all every played with ISO 7816 part 4? 19:32:26 s/every/ever/ 19:33:01 is that like smart cards? or somehow different? 19:37:51 Taneb: I think Hussie has gone mad with power... 19:38:06 I think Hussie started out mad with power. 19:38:12 Did you ever read Problem Sleuth? 19:38:22 Yeah ;P 19:42:09 boily, no, i only followed it up to part 2 19:42:30 do parts 3 and 4 keep up the standard? 19:44:18 I read it all but it is too long 19:45:43 part 3 has the low-level, electric stuff. part 4 has commands and things and stuff: http://cardwerk.com/smartcards/smartcard_standard_ISO7816-4.aspx 19:48:00 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 19:49:55 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:50:00 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:52:15 -!- john_metcalf has joined. 20:03:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 20:03:18 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:07:21 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:30:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:51:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:56:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:07:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:09:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:09:59 :t evalCont 21:10:02 Not in scope: `evalCont' 21:10:13 i guess someone ran @undefine 21:10:36 :t ?x 21:10:38 (?x::t) => t 21:10:45 Is that ?x a GHC extension? 21:10:57 elliott: that's neat, if you define min' = Cont . flip min and max' = Cont . flip max then i think you can do minimax algorithms that way 21:11:15 Taneb: implicit parameters 21:11:20 Right 21:11:27 Gah 21:11:28 What should I upgrade, the stadium, concession, or merchandise? 21:11:31 I wanted to make this bot 21:11:31 http://www.reddit.com/user/LinkFixerBot 21:11:52 zzo38, concession 21:11:55 @tell elliott that's neat, if you define min' = Cont . flip min and max' = Cont . flip max then i think you can do minimax algorithms that way 21:11:55 Consider it noted. 21:12:39 @tell elliott um, *+imum in places 21:12:39 Consider it noted. 21:13:51 Taneb: i think getting types without explicit lambdas may be their main use nowadays :P 21:14:21 The thing is that concession and stadium is only good for games at your stadium, and not for your opponent's stadium, while merchandise is good at either; however, merchandise is way more expensive to upgrade to level 9 (I have level 8) than concession to level 8 (which I currently have 7), and stadium is the most expensive. 21:14:36 To my mind, they are not very Haskelly 21:14:40 zzo38, as I said, concession 21:14:43 although some people use them for configuration i think, but there are gotchas than make them mostly deprecated 21:14:55 oerjan: btw ill be taking credit for those things 21:15:01 Taneb: Yes, I saw that and will consider it; but I also want to describe all the possibilities anyways. 21:15:08 02:42 all :: [a] -> Cont Bool a 21:15:09 shachaf: which things? the Cont stuff? 21:15:17 shachaf: ah 21:15:33 v. important 21:15:34 shachaf: did you consider using minimum and maximum too? 21:15:43 -!- augur has joined. 21:15:46 No. 21:15:59 Well, I mentioned that it's just a foldMap. 21:16:18 Stadium also, helps if there are many more people to come (and perhaps there is more property tax, too), but more people who come also means more concession will be sold since the higher level of concession means more choices (I have candy, cola, popcorn, weiner, burger, pretzel, and juice; next choice is pizza, and the next upgrades will be nachos and beer). 21:17:01 I will try concession for now since that is what I can afford, and hopefully sell enough pizza to make up for it. 21:17:20 what game? 21:17:26 or does zzo38 just actually own a stadium 21:17:29 concatMap :: [a] -> Cont [b] a 21:17:47 kmc: Franchise Basketball, on X-BIT BBS 21:18:49 I wish I knew what avocado tastes like <-- well have you had guacamole? 21:18:54 that contains it. 21:18:58 The installation on X-BIT has 16 teams in total, and currently, 15 are computer players (someone could register and take over, but the games I like are usually less popular than the others, it seems) 21:19:13 The other game I play on X-BIT is Word Warp 21:19:52 i claimed earlier that most of the taste of guacamole is not the avocado but the salt, tomato, onion, &c 21:20:00 Oops, the next game is at the opponent's stadium, so maybe I should have waited to upgrade the concession, and earned bank interest instead. 21:20:07 avocado itself is kind of like butter 21:20:08 shachaf: i guess this may be part of that "you can emulate all other monads in delimited continuations" stuff? 21:20:27 kmc: hm 21:20:32 Yep. 21:20:57 Given that all I'm saying here is that (>>=) :: m a -> Cont (m b) (m a) 21:21:07 really it should be Codensity!! 21:21:22 oh right concatMap _is_ flip (>>=) for [] 21:21:27 oerjan: btw i only want partial credit 21:22:05 :t Cont . flip (>>=) 21:22:07 Not in scope: data constructor `Cont' 21:22:07 Perhaps you meant one of these: 21:22:07 `Const' (imported from Control.Applicative), 21:22:11 :t cont . flip (>>=) 21:22:13 ((a -> b) -> a -> b) -> Cont (a -> b) a 21:22:21 um maybe not :P 21:22:21 @ty cont . (>>=) 21:22:23 Monad m => m a -> Cont (m b) a 21:22:27 Er, right. 21:22:29 a, not m a 21:22:43 that flipped thing looks interesting too... 21:22:59 Does it? 21:23:08 (=<<) :: (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b 21:23:32 So it's just instantiating the ms to make it work. 21:24:01 well ok i was mainly surprised it typed at all 21:24:01 @ty (cont . (=<<)) id 21:24:03 Cont (a -> b) a 21:24:11 @ty runCont $ (cont . (=<<)) id 21:24:12 (a -> a -> b) -> a -> b 21:24:39 if you set b = a you have church numerals there... 21:24:55 ? 21:25:01 That would be (b -> b) -> b -> b, wouldn't it? 21:25:17 i mean above in my first try 21:25:37 id _is_ a church numeral, just not the most interesting one 21:25:41 Oh, I see. 21:25:53 @ty (cont . (=<<)) (\f x -> f (f x)) 21:25:55 Cont (a -> a) a 21:26:20 @ty (=<<) (\f z -> f (f z)) 21:26:22 (b -> b -> b) -> b -> b 21:26:28 I think it does makes more sense for (=<<) as well as return and join to be methods of Monad and then make Functor a superclass, similar to how Comonad is; since, it can be like a return/fmap/join or it can be (=<<) as a functor from the Kleisli category 21:27:05 > (<>) >>= (\f z -> f (f z)) $ "hello" 21:27:07 "hellohellohello" 21:27:12 > (<>) >>= (\f z -> f (f (f z))) $ "hello" 21:27:14 "hellohellohellohello" 21:27:15 Eh. 21:29:42 I've never tried guacamole 21:30:02 I think IRC (and other chats) have prevented me from going off the deep end for a long time 21:30:09 omg wtf 21:30:11 no guacamole 21:30:16 get off the computer and go get some right now 21:30:21 It's quite a nice dip 21:30:24 Good with potato skins 21:30:39 Sgeo: in my expert opinion they haven't hth 21:30:58 even shachaf likes guacamole 21:30:59 zzo38: making Functor a superclass of Monad was an April Fools joke in reddit r/haskell this year, btw; several people commented it was the only one they'd fallen for this year 21:31:06 copumpkin: It's true! 21:31:12 see? 21:31:13 Guacamole is the future. 21:31:21 make it well and let it lead the way 21:31:34 I think I'll just ask the person who makes hamburgers to put avocado on the side 21:31:46 guacamole is so much more than just avocado 21:31:48 don't let it fool you 21:32:00 zzo38: so basically _many_ people have been wanting this for years, but it keeps being put off for a combination of backwards compatibility and technical reasons. 21:32:08 I'm not even a huge fan of avocado on its own 21:32:18 but combining it with spices, lime, onion, chunks of tomato, and so on 21:32:24 is a mouthgasm 21:32:45 as in, no one has managed to make a solution that keeps backwards compatibility without subtle technical issues 21:33:11 Do we need to care about backwards compatibility? Look at what the GHC people did with Num 21:33:32 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:33:58 Yes, there are compatibility reasons. 21:33:59 Just have the GHC people say "In 6 months, Applicative will be a superclass of Monad. If this breaks your code, on your head be it" 21:34:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:35:05 i love guacamole 21:35:12 I do have a solution but it requires making an entirely new programming language, mostly, and then having something to convert programs to combine modules if needed, possibly. 21:35:13 imo it's a monoid 21:35:38 zzo38, that sounds a tad overkill 21:35:46 Taneb: well that _does_ give a precedent. 21:36:09 I also don't want Applicative to be a superclass even though I do want all Monad to automatically be Applicative, but using another mechanism (I can think of it, though); mathematically, Applicative is not a superclass of Monad. 21:36:30 zzo38: um yes it is? 21:36:59 as much as Functor is. 21:37:40 (<*>) = ap and pure = return work just as well as fmap = liftM 21:37:42 oerjan: No it isn't! The feature of the (->) category just happens to be that all monads on (->) are applicative. So this is a different kind of property than a superclass, I think. 21:38:16 zzo38: well Monad is just -> monads. 21:38:52 in a more general category, even >>= doesn't belong in the monad class. 21:39:09 -> 21:39:11 oerjan: I agree that >>= doesn't belong; return, join, and =<< belong, but not >>= 21:40:24 Well, since there isn't another feature to do this, it could be a superclass, but then, there are a lot of other classes that want to do this and making them all superclasses when the programs aren't would confuse everything, which is why I think there ought to be another feature that can also do this too. 21:40:40 what other monads are there, next to (->) 21:41:11 (Possibly, like superclasses, but defined the other way around, I guess) 21:43:48 nooodl: ? 21:43:57 zzo38: well Monad is just -> monads. 21:44:05 are there "non-(->) moands" 21:44:07 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:44:10 *monads 21:44:28 nooodl: There are monads in categories other than (->) 21:44:30 nooodl: There are monads on other categories. By -> monads it means monads on the (->) category 21:45:31 Are there monads on, eg, the Kleisli Maybe category 21:45:33 All categories have a Identity monad, and all categories with a final object have a Finalize monad for each final object it has, but other than that they have different monads 21:45:35 And what would they look like 21:46:48 why can't we travel through time but why do we want to anyway? 21:47:32 why is not moving traveling forward at one second per second enough 21:47:34 help 21:47:38 :'( 21:48:02 Koen_, we want control 21:48:09 We want to forsee, we want to change 21:48:15 please don't control me I like freedom 21:48:28 Of time, not of eachother 21:48:29 Well 21:48:32 Each other also 21:48:39 But for this purpose, only time 21:48:42 (unless you wearing high heels in that case control is ok) 21:49:15 Taneb: but you can change even without traveling through time right? 21:49:27 How would you recognize it as change? 21:49:31 though history tends to show politics are very very very very slow to evolve 21:49:40 It is, as far as you can tell, what would have happened anyway 21:49:44 The alpha timeline 21:49:47 Taneb: hmm well for instance my hair look different than last year 21:49:52 oh right 21:50:11 Also, I don't have any high heels that fit, but I'm pretty tall 21:50:13 so you're an alternate timelines partisan then 21:50:21 yeah that's been a problem to me too 21:50:28 I think that that's what makes most sense 21:50:57 it does make sense, most shoeshop people told me they had nothing above 45 21:51:02 (european sizing) 21:51:12 (well at least french sizing I don' tknow about europe) 21:51:45 Much as I'd love to discuss time travel and high heels for people with larger feet with you, I have to sleep now 21:51:47 Goodnight 21:51:51 Taneb: so, suppose you travel back in time, change something, then "come back" 21:51:55 where do you come back to? 21:52:01 ok have nice sleep 21:52:19 It would depend on your time machine and if you left a tether or something 21:52:21 I dunno 21:52:22 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:52:28 it wouldn't make much sense to come "back" to the new timeline 21:52:36 since technically you've probably never left it 21:53:18 I don't think you can travel in time any way other than forward one second per second, *by definition*, but it might be possible to have a strange geometry of spacetime allowing forward in spacetime sometimes to be backwards geometry, maybe 21:53:24 (for instance if you go back in time because you want to "fix" something, in the new timeline in doesn't need fixing any more, thus the you from that new timeline has no incentive to travel back in time 21:54:13 My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell. 21:54:14 zzo38: for instance if some people start moving reaaaaaaaaaally fast at relativistic speeds would you say they travel through weird geometry? 21:54:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:54:47 Koen_: Even if they do that, it doesn't go backwards or in other directions than it normally does, though. 21:55:25 Such things as warp drives and worm holes and whatever may result in strange connections between spacetime, though, I suppose. 21:56:38 shachaf: are you going to enter in the Underhanded C Contest? 21:57:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:58:25 I wasn't planning on it... Should I? 21:58:28 Are you? 21:58:47 if i have a good idea 21:59:50 -!- Bike has joined. 22:00:43 I have looked at the Underhanded C codes, and find it is not so difficult to see that something is wrong with it, and what is wrong with it. But then, some people have called some of my ordinary C codes obfuscated, even though I don't think so. 22:02:14 kmc: how good at C do you have to be to enter? would you encourage some naive novice to rush in or should I watch from a distance? 22:02:43 Koen_: You have to be at least 14 good at it. 22:03:21 shachaf: I'm afraid that's 17 more than I am 22:04:44 Koen_: i don't know 22:04:48 take a look at some of the past winners 22:04:57 keeping in mind that those are the best submissions and it might still be fun to attempt 22:05:53 maybe I'll try then 22:07:04 thanks 22:07:15 They look like they might seem like correctly to someone who doesn't know how to program a C code, but someone who does know how to program a C code should easily be able to see what went "wrong", as far as I can tell. 22:07:43 C is easy, you just need to think about everything all the time and never make any mistakes 22:07:44 Well the point isn't to make them undetectable, just not trivially detectable, and even then look like an accident, right? 22:08:13 from looking at the past entries, it seems way less about abusing C too much and more about just really creative sneakiness 22:08:21 like bugs that are literally omitting a comma in the right place 22:09:07 speaking of C I'm semi-trying a "low level" lisp implementation for once 22:09:25 my favorite underhanded c code entry is the "censoring an image" one's winner 22:09:25 a closure can just be a function pointer plus a void* array for the closed over values, i think 22:09:44 http://notanumber.net/archives/54/underhanded-c-the-leaky-redaction 22:09:46 it's so good 22:12:09 wow, PPM is simple isn't it 22:12:13 `addquote My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell. 22:12:20 1015) My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell. 22:15:30 nooodl: i was slightly proud that i saw how it worked without looking at the explanation 22:16:00 Bike: yeah, PPM is nice 22:16:12 you can write a PPM reader / writer in any language in 2 minutes 22:16:15 except malbolge 22:16:24 also there are two variants, binary PPM and ascii PPM 22:16:44 i love ppm 22:17:00 i assume there's a unicode ppm that lets me use ⁰ and such 22:17:04 Hmm, no, it's pgm that i love 22:17:15 I like PBM 22:17:46 shachaf: because it's so easy? 22:17:48 I have written a program in TeX to read ASCII PBM 22:18:05 PNM is a fairly nice format. 22:18:15 kmc: It's true that i love it, and it's true that it is so easy. 22:18:21 I make no claims about causal relations. 22:20:19 itt relevance logic 22:20:27 zzo38: cool 22:20:29 what for? 22:21:21 TeX doesn't have a command to read arbitrary binary files (the only binary file it can read is TFM), although it can read/write arbitrary ASCII files. 22:21:36 kmc: To include a picture on a page without using specials. 22:22:24 I thought that was obviously? 22:27:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:28:09 it's never obviously with you zzo38 22:28:42 Well, to me it is, anyways. 22:28:53 Maybe to you it isn't. 22:28:56 maybe you had implemented an astrology calculator / Pokémon card game simulator in Plain TeX and wanted to load Pokémon cards as ASCII PBM files 22:29:20 `addquote healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes 22:29:24 1016) healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes 22:29:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:29:29 -!- Bike has joined. 22:29:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:29:58 @quote zzo38 22:29:59 zzo38 says: Such as, we try to make something similar to a combination of Haskell, C, BLISS, TeX, WEB, Prolog, INTERCAL, and Magic: the Gathering; and then make it with many things omitted such as 22:29:59 Unicode syntax, layout, do-notation, list comprehensions; and add in macros and stuff, and then make up something new...... 22:30:33 shachaf, is this you? http://wqdb.org/?732 22:30:53 (yes I'm only saying that because of the nick) 22:31:15 (And no I don't think it's really you) 22:31:26 kmc: Implementing ephemeris in TeX would be helpful, but I don't have one and don't really know how. 22:31:33 shachaf doesn't even own a television 22:31:33 It is not me. 22:31:45 kmc speaks the truth. 22:32:21 Got it. So it's GreeN who is shachaf. 22:33:06 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 22:33:07 i don't even own a television, but i don't even not own a television either 22:33:20 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 22:34:10 Do you either odd own a television or odd not own a television? 22:34:17 did you get it off schrodinger 22:35:14 was there a cat inside 22:35:25 What's with Sgeo, anyway? 22:35:34 In some ways I understand Sgeo less than I do zzo38. 22:35:36 shachaf: he's even odder than usual 22:36:06 shachaf, the prior question is what was known as an attempt at humor. 22:36:08 sgeo38 22:36:20 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to sgeo38. 22:36:26 Sgeo: I'm not talking about the prior question. 22:36:31 I"m talking about everything you say. 22:36:33 I don't get it. 22:36:35 maybe sgo38 22:36:52 -!- sgeo38 has changed nick to sgo38. 22:37:04 hm zzo38 did you go to school at Cambridge in the UK? 22:37:15 No 22:37:43 cantabrigians have usernames like [a-z]{3}[0-9]{2} 22:37:46 I went to school at some schools in British Columbia 22:37:52 shachaf, IRC is my primary social life. Does that help? 22:38:02 No. 22:38:06 kmc: Then perhaps it is some coincidence? 22:38:13 yeah 22:38:45 perhapsly 22:39:27 > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum)"zzo38" "aaron" 22:39:29 [25,25,-3,-60,-54] 22:39:52 the probability that 5 random characters from [a-z0-9] fit that pattern is 2.91% 22:39:52 > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum.toUpper)"zzo38" "aaron" 22:39:54 [25,25,-3,-28,-22] 22:41:10 > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum)"ZZO38" "aaron" 22:41:12 [-7,-7,-35,-60,-54] 22:41:18 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:41:46 > zipWith ((-)`on`fromEnum)"ZZo38" "aarON" 22:41:48 [-7,-7,-3,-28,-22] 22:42:12 iirc there was a chronojournal entry about the origin of zzo38 22:42:18 it involved 22:42:20 zzt 22:42:27 and the digits 3 and 8 22:42:27 hth 22:42:31 hth38 22:42:33 Hm. What's my favorite two-digit number. 22:42:38 65 22:42:41 tswett: 00 22:42:44 Yeah, 64 for sure. 22:42:46 zzt was some system or other, no? 22:42:48 Phantom_Hoover: hm. 22:42:51 2^3 = 8, coincidence? i think not 22:42:58 zzt is a weird dos game i thought 22:43:00 Yeah, that's a pretty good number. 13*5, isn't it? 22:43:06 it's a dos game/game creation system 22:43:14 Sure, if you do that "multiplication" crud. 22:43:23 which zzo38 has programmed iirc 22:43:26 perhaps 2^3 = 1 22:43:53 I know many things about ZZT; the documentation doesn't mention everything properly but I can figure out many thing by myself 22:43:55 `run python -c 'print 2^3' 22:43:56 1 22:44:02 whoa 22:44:32 So I think I know why the #DIE command sometimes causes other pieces to move 22:44:33 hm 22:44:35 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:44:49 `run python -c 'print (2 ** 3) % 7' 22:44:51 1 22:45:05 kmc: of course it's not a coincidence 22:45:09 it might be a coïncidence 22:45:17 coin cidence 22:45:23 i should pronounce it like 22:45:27 co-incidence 22:45:29 just for the hell of it 22:45:39 Isn't that how it's pronounced? 22:45:46 quinsidense 22:45:50 coincide-ence 22:45:51 What? 22:45:56 No it's not. 22:46:14 quinkadink 22:46:22 coin sidens 22:47:36 Using a debugger I have managed to copy the table storing the properties of all of the pieces, and formatted it and print it out, and now I can understand what all of that means; most things I did not need a debugger to figure out though. 22:49:58 Other people have helped a few things such as figuring out the format of the music in the executable file, though. 22:50:17 My method is the scientific method to figure out all of these things. 22:50:52 i register both "co incidence" and "quincidence" as correct 22:50:57 one day I should learn IPA 22:51:18 then i can talk about voiced medial post-alevolar fricatives or whatever 22:51:45 I thought IPA was separate from all those fancy names for sounds 22:51:45 fictional frictional fricatives 22:51:52 ok fine 22:51:59 i need to learn the names of sounds and then how to represent them in IPA 22:52:43 well, it has a character for each phoneme. good enough for me 22:53:06 I have once made up a set of symbols that overlap so one means voiced, one is medial, one is post-alevolar, one is fricatives, whatever, one for consonants and one for vowels (which works differently), rather than using letters of the alphabet like IPA use 22:53:10 Anyway I think I mostly meant a change in stress. Making the "co" very distinct. 22:53:25 but even IPA is only an approximation of the actual sounds, and many sounds that have the same IPA symbol may not sound the same 22:53:30 zzo38: that sounds like it could be better 22:53:58 I think that's how Hangul works. 22:54:11 olsner: well yeah, it's phonemes, not sounds. 22:54:16 kmc, the actual names of sounds are fairly easy to learn 22:54:22 kmc: Yes, I know that is what I think better too 22:54:31 That is why I did it. 22:57:01 Also, it's Ig Noble. <-- no it's Ig Nobel hth 22:57:07 Coincide, the killing of coins. 23:05:43 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:06:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:16:59 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:24:39 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 23:31:24 I think Esoteric Verilog is more than Turing complete 23:35:58 I'm hungry 23:36:05 But I have things I need to do 23:39:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 23:55:34 `run echo hello | iconv -t baudot 23:55:36 iconv: conversion to `baudot' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information. 23:55:38 :( 23:56:37 oh that's where "baud" is from neat 23:57:18 they're named after the same person yeah 23:57:50 why is there no unit named the shannon :/ 2013-04-08: 00:00:57 he uses "bit" and "baud" in his papers 00:01:03 self-sacrifice. shine on, claude 00:01:09 nobody uses units named after themselves 00:01:15 you make a slightly less stupid future for us all 00:09:21 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:10:13 If everyone else's name is already taken, then you should name it after yourself, isn't it? 00:11:44 -!- Vorpal has joined. 00:18:27 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:24:37 zzo38: It is. 00:37:47 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 00:42:28 How important is it to regard clothing's care stuff? 00:42:33 I kind of just ignored it... 00:42:46 you mean the stuff on the tag? 00:43:00 if you wash things at too high temp, they may shrink or worse. 00:43:07 for regular cotton shirts and such, not important at all 00:43:34 :/ me might have shrunken shirts tomorrow 00:43:53 if you wash red clothes with white, you may ruin the white ones. 00:43:58 for certain materials like silk and wool, you do need to do specific things 00:44:08 oerjan: usually ok after the first few washes though 00:44:10 * sgo38 doesn't have silk or wool in there I think 00:44:49 sgo38: i just have a bunch of normal cotton or cotton/poly blend clothes and I wash them all together (white and black, not much color though) on hot usually, and they're always fine 00:45:33 there are particular kinds of stains that require special care 00:46:30 for blood stains you should treat it with hydrogen peroxide (when fresh preferably) and then wash it on cold 00:47:11 -!- btiffin has joined. 00:47:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:47:55 old iwc readers may want to know about this http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=7294 00:49:13 it's supposedly even more roleplaying centered than the ordinary ones though 00:54:30 :/me 00:54:39 a new innovation for expressing dissatisfaction on irc 00:55:23 it's certainly space saving 00:58:42 :/me ? 00:58:48 :/me. 00:59:05 did you mean :/meh ? 00:59:14 No. 00:59:17 doesthiswork, but that doesn't resemble /me 01:00:00 I don't think that's a valid command 01:00:35 oerjan, will I need to have read regular IWC though? 01:00:40 I haven't read the whole thing yet 01:02:06 sgo38: i doubt it, or else the pyramid readers would have had to as well... 01:02:30 and these strips are not canonical in the regular one 01:03:42 i'm only up to no. 9 myself of these ones 01:04:22 but so far they seem pretty disconnected gag-a-day strips 01:12:56 hm it appears to have a paranoia theme 01:19:36 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:20:25 -!- bengt_ has joined. 01:24:03 -!- sgo38 has changed nick to Sgeo. 01:27:48 oerjan, some of them, at least 01:28:15 And by some I mean I just reached #7 which is Paranoia themed 01:29:00 i said that just as i reached the second i found 01:29:35 The book the GM holds gives the game away 01:30:56 I vaguely want to play Munchkin 01:31:51 well the point is there was a theme not in the regular comic. 01:34:26 What's the best nondeterministic programming language? 01:35:51 Nondeterministic as in gives multiple answers or nondeterministic as in random? 01:37:15 if i say "Mercury" will you go look at that and stop asking "best" questions 01:38:07 `WeLcOmE Bike 01:38:10 BiKe: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 01:38:13 hichaf 01:38:18 hello 01:38:25 did you learn about profunctors yet ............... 01:38:30 nah. 01:38:36 confunctors? 01:38:50 You made that up. 01:38:55 Hey, it's not me asking the 'best' question this time! 01:39:10 I... didn't say it was? 01:39:30 Bike: I make a lot of things up, Bike. 01:39:39 http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/iwc/?strip=19 01:39:43 I don't get it 01:39:46 One time I made up all of Portugal. 01:39:58 Is Rolling For Initiative indicative of something? 01:39:58 Even the wars? 01:40:02 Sgeo: If you don't get it you should ask the person who linked it in the channel about it. 01:43:03 erm... i _think_ it's rolling for whether you or the opponent gets to do the first action. 01:43:24 or the order if there are more people, presumably. 01:44:14 these are all extremely non-funny 01:44:34 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:45:33 shachaf: linking it doesn't mean i'm an expert hth 01:46:06 oh food -> 01:46:45 oerjan: Did you link it? 01:47:24 shachaf: i linked the iwc forum pointer to these 01:47:45 nooodl: you may have to like roleplaying to understand much of it 01:48:22 Rolling for initiative is used to determine the turn order, which can sometimes change. 01:49:46 http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/iwc/?strip=26 01:49:47 zzo38: since this is on the pyramid site most roleplaying specifics are probably for the gurps system, btw (which dmm has always been using afaik) 01:49:52 That one's awesome 01:50:04 zzo38: What about rolling for terminative? 01:50:05 eek you're passing me 01:50:31 zzo38: Do you want to be on `olist? 01:50:36 shachaf: I don't think it is needed, since initiative is only for the turn order. 01:50:48 What is a `olist? 01:50:59 I probably don't need to be on such list. 01:51:18 zzo38, olist is people who want to be told when Order of the Stick updates 01:51:39 I don't want to be on these lists. 01:51:47 Ok 01:59:00 Can DRAM be reset to all bits set? Someone told me it can, but not to all bits clear, and all bits clear is what I am trying to do. 02:02:23 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:12:05 Ugh, I am very tired. 02:12:39 help 02:15:11 they have pills for that 02:19:14 * Fiora gives shachaf a blanket 02:27:15 -!- augur has joined. 03:12:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:23:43 `slist 03:23:47 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:32:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:32:20 -!- DH____ has joined. 04:01:52 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 257 seconds). 04:02:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:29:00 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:31:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:32:44 -!- Bike has joined. 04:40:13 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 04:45:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:45:19 -!- conehead has joined. 04:55:37 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:01 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 04:59:20 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 05:00:03 -!- conehead has joined. 05:03:00 -!- conehead has quit (Client Quit). 05:03:14 -!- conehead has joined. 05:19:42 Bike: 05:19:43 22:17 BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE 05:19:43 22:17 .._\ 05:19:43 22:17 (o)(o) 05:20:13 Why would a train ride a bike? 05:23:37 for sexual gratification? 05:23:55 why did you have a train ride you? 05:52:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:53:03 -!- conehead has joined. 05:53:56 -!- conehead has quit (Client Quit). 05:57:52 It would have to be a large bike for the train to fit and not break it. Also, the train has its own wheels, but perhaps they broke, or the engine broke? 05:58:52 zzo38: You should suggest your theories in #cslounge-trains 06:00:01 -!- btiffin has left. 06:08:46 -!- conehead has joined. 06:09:30 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:10:29 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 06:11:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:15:02 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 06:35:57 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:23:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:36:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:43:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:46:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:48:19 -!- carado has joined. 07:57:22 -!- ais523_ has joined. 07:57:32 @messages? 07:57:33 Sorry, no messages today. 07:57:35 err, right 07:57:37 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 07:57:38 @messages? 07:57:39 Sorry, no messages today. 07:57:41 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_. 07:57:44 Morning, ais523_ 07:57:48 morning 07:57:50 ais523_: Why the _? 07:57:59 My guess is that he's at work 07:57:59 shachaf: ais523_ uses wired connections exclusively 07:58:04 and ais523 wireless connections exclusively 07:58:14 So it's a wire. 07:58:20 Why make the distinction? 07:58:21 the underscore typically implies that I'm at work, because when I'm borrowing connections from friends, it's normally via wireless router 07:58:30 and because often we need to be on simultaneously 07:58:30 Ah. 07:58:40 well, that's why the nicks became different 07:58:45 Why not keep an always-on client? 07:58:55 then I assigned them their roles permanently out of stubbornness and whimsy 07:59:12 lambdabot has a theoretical way of linking nicks. 07:59:17 I think it's only half-implemented, though. 08:04:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:07:47 -!- nooga has joined. 08:22:08 -!- ais523_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:22:18 oh come on 08:22:24 that's meant to be the /reliable/ connection 08:22:56 looks like the desktop computer crashed… 08:25:21 Wires: not so reliable after all. 08:25:41 Wires: it's what's for dinner. 08:27:55 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:40:54 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:42:31 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:42:48 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:42:51 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 08:49:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:02:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:02:31 Hello 09:10:43 `slist 09:10:48 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 09:15:46 `uname 09:15:48 Linux 09:15:54 `uname -R 09:15:56 uname: invalid option -- 'R' \ Try `uname --help' for more information. 09:16:03 `uname --help 09:16:04 Usage: uname [OPTION]... \ Print certain system information. With no OPTION, same as -s. \ \ -a, --all print all information, in the following order, \ except omit -p and -i if unknown: \ -s, --kernel-name print the kernel name \ -n, --nodename print the network node hostname \ 09:16:13 `uname -a 09:16:14 Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux 09:16:25 Out of curiosity, what's -R supposed to print? 09:16:39 I though it printed the release information 09:16:44 clearly doesn't 09:16:48 Oh, so -r then. 09:16:57 `uname -r 09:16:58 3.7.0-umlbox 09:16:59 Ah, yes 09:17:06 `lsb_release -a 09:17:09 No LSB modules are available. \ Distributor ID:Debian \ Description:Debian GNU/Linux \ Release:n/a \ Codename:n/a 09:17:26 Ah, Debian n/a, the best distribution. 09:17:40 I agree 09:17:58 N/A was probably the best version ever released. Really stable 09:23:03 xkcd's subway map thingie looks funky. 09:32:12 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130408-subways_of_finland.png here I maed the same thing of our glorious country. 09:32:24 Also includes: scribbling with a mouse. 09:36:42 Does the US have intercity subways? 09:38:57 I believe some creative license have been taking in connecting those things. (See e.g. "Trolley Rt. 10 to California" from Philadelphia to LA.) 09:39:04 s/taking/taken/ 09:39:12 s/have/has/ 09:39:17 s/what/ever/ 09:39:21 s/.// 09:39:37 That just got rid of the first letter. 09:39:51 oops forgot my Kleene star there 09:39:54 s/.*// 09:39:56 There you go 09:40:12 s/.//g would have been acceptable also. 09:41:12 `slist 09:41:13 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 10:11:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds). 10:26:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:34:28 -!- mroman_ has joined. 10:39:11 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 10:44:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:09:25 "THIS OIL VACCINE PRODUCT BUSINESS OFFER MAY INTEREST YOU." 11:16:04 -!- carado has joined. 11:27:24 @ping 11:28:03 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:28:18 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:29:36 pong 11:30:31 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 11:31:53 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Quitte). 11:35:59 -!- Jafet has joined. 12:07:28 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:13:13 -!- nooga has joined. 12:13:51 -!- Rhino has joined. 12:18:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:19:00 Hello 12:19:10 Is anybody in there? 12:24:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:31:13 Just nod if you can hear me? 12:31:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:32:21 What ? 12:32:22 nyaa? 12:32:28 I am here 12:33:09 Do you hear me? 12:33:48 `welcome Rhino 12:33:50 Rhino: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:34:35 Thank you 12:35:00 Rhino, important questions! 12:35:05 Is it possible to discuss different issues here? 12:35:15 Are you from, in, or otherwise associated with Finland? 12:35:32 Only ? 12:35:45 How about Hexham? 12:36:01 No, I am not absolutely associated with Finland 12:36:15 (Hexham's in the UK) 12:36:15 Just relatively. 12:36:33 Originally I am from Russia 12:36:50 But now I have to live and work in Vietnam 12:36:58 Hmm 12:37:06 #esoteric is kind of legendarily off topic so it should be okay :p 12:37:06 Nothing here 12:37:08 You're getting progressively further from Finland and Hexham 12:37:54 I'll demonstrate the channel's topicality. 12:38:03 Taneb: Me? 12:38:07 Yes 12:38:23 At least Russia and Finland share a border 12:38:44 I see, but I am in Vietnam just now 12:38:56 And I have never been in Finland 12:39:02 This is problematic 12:39:16 Why? 12:39:22 Perhaps if you keep going, you'll go round the world the other way 12:39:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:39:52 Fiora, you doing anything for 4/13? 12:39:55 hmm, thatcher died 12:40:27 it really has been a week for it 12:40:40 Phantom_Hoover, yes, I can tell by the vast chasm between the opinions vocalized by my gran and by the rest of my peers 12:40:50 who's the tory scum 12:41:22 4/13? oh right, that's a special day 12:41:46 -!- Rhino has left. 12:41:47 yeah, the 4th of smarch 12:42:17 maybe I'll wear jade's outfit or something? 12:42:25 Phantom_Hoover, it's month/year, not day/month 12:42:32 oh 12:43:06 anyway what does your gran/your peers think of thatcher 12:43:41 -!- monqy has joined. 12:43:48 Phantom_Hoover, I live in the north-east of England, a region long associated with coal mining. 12:43:56 Which group do you think has which opinion 12:44:05 your peers love thatcher?? 12:45:13 Yeah 12:45:18 They are in the house of lords, after all 12:45:29 I'm not sure what else I should do for 4/13 12:45:48 :/ 12:45:51 maybe watch cascde again :p 12:46:10 There's a party happening somewhere near here, but I don't know where it is, if I'm invited, or if I can even make it 12:46:22 2013-04 (ISO 8601) 12:46:34 for 4/13 or thatcher's death 12:46:49 Both, maybe neither 12:49:01 (the former) 12:49:34 for 4/13 -_- 12:49:53 I'm not really a party person 12:52:42 I think Margaret Thatcher must have been the most polarizing politician ever 12:54:36 if you put two polarizing politicians in front of each other, and then like, turn one 90 degrees 12:54:40 do they turn dark? 12:55:12 Sounds like a fun experiment 12:55:25 Except it involves politicians 12:55:26 Ugh 12:55:40 weren't you a fake politician taneb 12:55:54 I also experience long bouts of self-loathing 12:55:57 if I was less lazy maybe I could make a jade god tier outfit or something 12:56:15 Taneb, fake self-loathing? 12:56:25 Alas, real self-loathing 12:58:14 Fiora: you can't turn the BNP dark this way 12:58:54 let me guess, because they're too white? 12:58:56 :P 13:03:31 ahahahahaha 13:03:43 -!- carado has joined. 13:04:42 there is apparently some confusion on twitter over whether the #nowthatchersdead hashtag refers to thatcher or cher 13:05:05 XD 13:05:12 tag conflicts are amusing 13:05:31 like that wonderful fan war between k-pop fans and holmes fans over the 'sherlock' tag 13:05:59 also: http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/ 13:06:32 is that cher dead yet 13:06:50 partying over thatcher dying seems a bit.......morbid??? 13:07:06 yes, i think it's a bit tasteless myself 13:07:24 "celebrating" :< 13:07:51 otoh so is the media's standard love-in for her 13:16:26 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Quitte). 13:17:27 -!- boily has joined. 13:26:54 -!- impomatic has left. 13:40:19 what's 4/13 13:41:30 ♫ brezhnev took afghanistan, begin took beirut, galtieri took the union jack, and maggie over lunch one day, took a cruiser with all hands, apparently to make him give it back ♫ 13:41:44 oklofok: puzzles of the day http://i.imgur.com/JjiX270.png 13:41:44 kmc: It's a STUCKHOME thing. 13:43:43 (to win you have to move once and exactly once through every blue square) 13:44:01 (without stepping outside) 13:49:20 "Good thing about #Thatcher: her economic polices led to empty warehouses & so she created raves" 13:54:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:11:59 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:20:19 -!- joop has joined. 14:29:00 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:29:07 -!- boily has joined. 14:33:47 Koen_: do you know the theory? 14:36:15 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:39:58 oklofok: well I guess yeah 14:40:04 maybe not all of it 14:40:13 but enough to prove that this one looks impossible 14:40:24 (and it's only level 3 out of 5) 14:41:38 actually on a second thought that's probably np complete, as it's hamiltonian path instead of euclidean 14:41:41 erm 14:42:27 eulerian. 14:43:12 I reproduced the grid on a piece of paper 14:43:33 and with a pen I wrote down all pieces of path that are mandatory 14:43:46 and basically in one area there is necessarily a dead-end 14:44:09 and knowing that there is a dead-end there, we get a necessary dead-end some other place close 14:44:23 thus I don't really know what I'm supposed to do 14:47:29 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:48:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:49:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:49:22 where do you play that game? online? 14:51:51 yup 14:52:06 what url? 14:52:08 tromp_: it's an online test to... enter a school 14:52:10 42.fr 14:53:13 -!- joop has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:54:46 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 14:55:02 but given the kind of tests I have passed already I wouldn't be surprised if the "solution" was that there actually was an invisible square somewhere, or something 14:55:10 which I would find most stupid 14:57:05 oklofok: basic theory is that I'm only allowed one dead-end, besides the square i'm starting with, right? 14:57:25 i dont understand all the french i'm agreeing to:( 14:57:31 haha 14:57:57 tromp_: they're asking you to certify you're not gonna be lying about the information you input 14:58:42 with the underlying threat that when you physically go to the school they'll find out anyway 14:59:03 that hasn't stopped quite a few journalists to register, though 14:59:15 these multiple choice are tough if u suck at french 14:59:40 tromp_: most are stupid question 14:59:47 like what is your favourite color 15:00:06 who is your favourite person, elijah wood or elijah whatshisname 15:00:32 hmm, a singleton choice questoin:) 15:00:34 I reckon the only one you should be careful with is the one about what an algorithm is 15:00:43 yeah that one was particularly tough 15:00:47 "Descartes... Est un moyen de transport dans Minecraft" 15:00:55 haha 15:01:03 wait, I didn't have that one 15:02:00 ok, they just told me I was done with all the tests, and that if I had passed them out of curiosity I should mention it now 15:02:16 I'm too curious about what follows though :) 15:04:01 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:06:50 Do I spy spam in the topic? 15:08:16 probably. they were kindly enough to share an album with you. 15:08:18 " oklofok: basic theory is that I'm only allowed one dead-end, besides the square i'm starting with, right?" <<< i was referring to the fact it's very easy to check if there's an eulerian trail/path through a graph. but this is a hamiltonian path, which is much harder. 15:08:38 what's eulerian? 15:09:05 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:09:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eulerian_path 15:09:29 " a trail in a graph which visits every edge exactly once" 15:10:44 hmm, i'm not gonna get through the sms confirmation 15:11:14 tromp_: if you want you can use my phone 15:11:27 though it's possible they'll notice that number has already been used 15:11:54 dont think i can go back and change my phone number 15:12:06 oh right 15:12:30 weird; if u made typo in phone#, you're screwed:( 15:12:31 hmmm well they must have somthing to do to help people who mistyped their number 15:13:18 howmany digits s confirmation#? 15:13:54 what do you mean? 15:13:59 -!- carado has joined. 15:14:06 french numbers are 06 xx xx xx xx 15:14:11 i have to enter Code de confirmation 15:14:11 or maybe 07 sometimes 15:14:16 oh right 15:14:17 wait a sec 15:14:18 i can guess 15:14:40 or enter yours:) 15:14:50 maybe they use same # for everybody:) 15:14:51 mine was SMuauk 15:14:55 good luck 15:15:23 no luck:( 15:16:00 on unrelated news I just solved the puzzle BUT THE TEST HAS BEEN OVER FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES 15:16:10 maybe I can send them an email or something 15:16:53 wait 15:16:54 no 15:17:05 oh, i can enter a new phone# 15:17:08 no I'm still pretty convinced it's impossible 15:19:08 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:19:49 hey, anyone here a fan of semantic markup? 15:20:14 as in microformats? 15:20:21 what I want to ask is, is the correct way to do a form containing labels on the left that line up, matching form elements on the right that line up? 15:20:35 thinking about it, I guess the technically correct method involves
, CSS'ed to render as a table 15:20:36 As in the HTML5 stuff? 15:20:43 Taneb: or just HTML/CSS generally 15:21:19 you don't need any table. just “label { display: inline-block; width: 40em; } 15:21:22 ” 15:21:41 boily: what if you want the width to autoadjust? 15:21:43 then you can match a 15:21:50 hardcoded widths really annoy me 15:22:12 basically because they don't adjust to anything 15:22:12 instead of 40em, you can put 30%. 15:22:27 then, it'll match the parent block element. 15:22:29 well that's still hardcoded, and arguably worse because now it's adjusting to screen width not font size 15:22:53 I can understand a width=50% to do columns or the like 15:23:06 but apart from that, I want everything to size to the font or the like 15:23:19 one of the top reasons to use HTML for a user interface is that everything sizes to fit… 15:23:33 you want you label column to fit the width of the longest label? 15:23:37 (some other languages get this right too, like Java, but it has other problems) 15:23:39 boily: yes 15:23:52 or wrap the labels if there's no room for the longest label and the longest form element 15:24:01 you can cheat that with some javascript, but it's going to be ugly. 15:24:07 well exactly 15:24:11 or you could use a table 15:24:16 I'm just mostly worried about accessibility 15:24:43 really what you want is a \begin{align} from LaTeX, but HTML/CSS doesn't have that yet 15:25:21 index.ps 15:26:00 Things I do when I'm bored: 15:26:10 ais523: there seems to be a solution here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9325426/css-how-to-create-a-label-width-of-the-longest-containing-text 15:26:10 Write a program that when it's run, it deletes itself 15:26:57 boily: oh wow that's broken, if the labels aren't the same height as the thing they're labelling they'll end up mismatched 15:27:13 also the reading order is totally wrong 15:27:29 perhaps I should give up on trying to do CSS "correctly", it's just not possible :) 15:28:25 Write to the W3C 15:29:09 The page my router displays when you tell it to restart using its web interface is a table with one cell, which contains a font element 15:29:15 I like how they're trying to implement
. 15:29:47 Jafet: the thing that started this conversation was "I'm using a table for this atm, is there a more correct way?" 15:30:27 the hilarious thing is that I just remembered this was for a debug view 15:30:31 so nobody but me is likely to use it anyway 15:32:20 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:33:04 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:33:07 So tables are semantically wrong for displaying items in a tabular form 15:34:16 Jafet: hmm 15:34:33 I guess each of the rows is semantically meaningful, as is each of the columns 15:34:47 I'm not sure if the normal table navigation commands are what you'd want to use to navigate it, though 15:35:40 btw, this is for the jsondb stuff 15:35:55 I actually have it working a way I really like now, working many-to-many joins and everything 15:36:08 and an interface that's way nicer on me than SQL would be 15:36:13 because it can imply many of the joins itself 15:36:59 meanwhile, I'm also getting slightly better at reading Cyrillic 15:37:08 occasionally I can make out an English loanword even if all the letters are different 15:37:20 man 15:37:25 parliamentary privilege is fascinating 15:37:43 coppro: has someone just used it dramatically? 15:38:16 tromp_: how are you doing so far? 15:38:37 вокзал 15:39:17 Taneb: bleh 15:39:25 the first letter's a v 15:39:28 (actually an English loan word, sort of) 15:39:28 but apart from that 15:39:57 Roughly, "Vauxhall" 15:39:59 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:40:02 It means railway station 15:40:13 heh 15:40:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:42:10 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:43:57 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 15:46:26 Koen: see private chat 15:46:40 I'm gonna wander off now, perhaps 15:46:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:02:36 ais523: possible 16:02:37 *possibly 16:02:43 I was referring to the general matter, though 16:02:50 hmm, OK 16:03:00 it's an interesting choice of thing to randomly become interested in :) 16:03:06 ais523: Although I can't remember if I told you about Mr. Warawa and his motion on sex-selective abortion 16:03:10 you didn't 16:03:10 it's not particularly random 16:03:14 I've just been investigating it more 16:03:18 was he in favour of it or against it? 16:03:27 against 16:04:05 so the relevant context is that the House considered and defeated a motion to strike a special committee to investigate the legal definition of when life begins 16:04:39 now, Mr. Warawa submitted a private member's motion to condemn sex-selective abortion (and take no action 16:05:25 was this related, and/or an attempt to exploit a loophole? 16:05:35 depends who you ask 16:05:50 hmm 16:05:50 neither was overtly an attempt to ban abortion, however 16:06:29 I'm reminded of something that happened in guild council, where there were basically people trying to pass motions to make the guild take an opinion in the israel vs. palestine conflict 16:06:42 and I basically tried to scam guild council into making all the motions fail 16:06:46 in a symmetrical way 16:07:00 the chairs caught on to what I was doing and stopped it, although they didn't realise it was intentional until after the meeting 16:07:35 haha 16:07:43 Now, it is the rule and practice of the House that all private members' business must be screened before a subcommittee of the committee on procedure and house affairs to determine whether or not it is similar to business already brought up, or before the Senate 16:08:23 effectively just verifying that it isn't the same as business already considered 16:08:26 btw, should we take this conversation to ##nomic where it's actually ontopic? that way it'd be more likely for other people to chip in 16:08:30 sure 16:18:03 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:28:56 -!- nooga has joined. 16:31:21 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:35:13 Grumble grumble "You must take the following steps before you can proceed: 1. Check your email for a message from MathWorks. 2. Click on the verification link in this email." but what if there is no message? 16:35:33 fizzie: then you can't proceed 16:35:41 But I want to proceed. :/ 16:36:34 -!- conehead has joined. 16:39:14 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 16:41:56 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:42:14 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 16:42:49 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:43:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 16:45:45 12:39:55: hmm, thatcher died 16:45:51 Phantom_Hoover: am I allowed to celebrate just this once 16:47:10 * Bike dances a jig 16:47:13 UK is now going through what the US went through when Reagan died 16:47:26 tons of sickening respect from official channels 16:47:40 but everyone saying "actually they were a prick" in informal or "opinion" channels 16:48:00 i don't know how their approval ratings at death compared though 16:48:15 (right before they died, I mean) 16:48:34 kmc: margaret thatcher's approval ratings have been pretty low for ages 16:48:59 Reagan is still seen by many as Republican Jesus, second only to actual Republican Jesus 16:49:14 supply-side jesus is a hero 16:49:15 (not be confused with actual Jesus, who said we should help the poor and stuff) 16:49:20 yes 16:49:37 trickle down jesus 16:50:11 http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/franken/ssj01.html if anyone hasn't seen it 16:51:14 kmc, well i mean in... most of the uk that isn't the home counties thatcher is intensely hated 16:51:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:51:40 Bike: good 404 16:51:57 -!- augur has joined. 16:52:05 13:06:50: partying over thatcher dying seems a bit.......morbid??? 16:52:05 13:07:06: yes, i think it's a bit tasteless myself 16:52:13 Phantom_Hoover: i can think of another morbid, tasteless thing 16:52:24 thatcher's corpse? 16:52:44 Bah. http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html 16:53:07 Bike: four oh four 16:53:30 *!#!^ 16:53:58 http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2003/09/The-Gospel-Of-Supply-Side-Jesus.aspx here have a terrible link 16:54:32 The Gospel of Supply-Side Jesus. Man, gotta read this. 16:54:47 ... also 404 *sobs* 16:54:57 are you fucking serious 16:55:13 whatever just google "supply side jesus" it's just a comic in one of franken's books 16:55:58 it's not 404 16:55:59 hth 16:56:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:56:43 he 16:56:43 h 16:56:49 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Quit: Bye). 16:57:19 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:58:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:59:07 kmc: hope elephants help 16:59:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:59:52 yes 16:59:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:59:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:00:17 invading italy? hope elephants help 17:00:21 (spoiler: they don't) 17:01:57 i think they worked alright in ethiopia 17:02:20 Phantom_Hoover: home counties means the area around London, but not London itself? 17:02:47 kmc: it means the counties that are near enough london to contain parts of it 17:02:49 i was assuming it meant the UK countries 17:02:53 but i guess not :( 17:03:00 there's some debate as to whether greater london is actually a county or not at all 17:03:03 ok 17:03:06 kmc, basically yeah 17:03:15 oh home COUNTIES 17:03:17 good job bike 17:03:45 so it arguably contains the outskirts of london, where it's thinned enough to not be solid city any more, but most people don't consider it to contain central london, or at least wouldn't mention it if it was central london they were referring to 17:05:50 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:06:07 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:07:17 ais523: http://agoranomic.org/ is down, is there another URL I should point people to? 17:07:32 elliott: the FLR's at https://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~charles/agora/current_flr.txt 17:07:38 I guess that'll have to do in the absence of a homepage 17:07:53 that's, um, pretty bad 17:07:58 is it possible to subscribe to the lists? that was on agoranomic.org 17:08:29 well yeah, you just have to know the URLs 17:08:35 which are in the registrar's report 17:08:43 so if you get contact with agora somehow, you can bootstrap from there 17:08:57 ais523: re your HTML question: you can use but use the CSS properties to make them display as a table 17:09:01 *
here, considering browsers that ignore CSS 17:11:00 e.g. certainly in w3m or whatever the table form will be nicer 17:11:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:15:22 Where is "here"? 17:15:59 ~duck here 17:16:00 At or in this place: Stop here for a rest. 17:16:48 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:17:58 * FireFly stops 17:22:35 ~duck metasepia 17:22:36 Metasepia is a genus of small cuttlefish from the Pacific Ocean. 17:24:00 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 17:34:57 -!- fizzie has set topic: At or in this place: Stop here for a rest | Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| roäld.dahl.net | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 17:35:27 -!- augur has joined. 17:35:38 Hey, I got the email. Now I can proceed. 17:41:39 the email 17:48:19 The email. From MathWorks. 17:48:55 ah. the email. 17:49:18 It is needed. In order to proceed. 17:49:31 It's not possible to proceed without the email. 17:49:41 BEHOLD 17:49:43 The power of the email. 17:49:47 The power to allow you to proceed. 17:50:12 I proceeded. Because I had the email. 17:50:14 Email. Reinvented. Again. 17:50:25 An elegant, minimalist, suckless email, done right, that celebrates craftsmanship 17:51:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:54:09 wow! i love craftsmanship, how did you know 17:56:17 Cliched ad copy. Reinvented. Again. 17:56:36 An elegant, minimal, suckless marketing slogan, done right, that celebrates large fonts. 17:57:05 * Gregor wipes a tear from his eye. 17:59:54 have you considered monetizing that emotion, gregor 18:03:36 -!- monqy has joined. 18:07:28 -!- john_metcalf has left ("http://corewar.co.uk "). 18:09:51 monetizement is evil. 18:11:24 But evil is good. 18:11:33 Socialist! 18:16:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:18:46 https://twitter.com/peteheat/status/321247583970418689/photo/1 18:22:23 Outstanding. 18:44:51 (is "margaret" a boy's name now or) 18:45:13 itt kids these days 18:45:22 market thatcher 18:45:30 gonna call her that from now on 18:46:28 it strangely fits her, for the little I know about her. 18:49:26 I just installed matlab with umask 077, and now only root has any privileges for the directories. 18:49:55 The files are all 755 or 644 or 444 or whatever, but the directories are all 0700. 18:50:52 (Also, there are 10998 *directories*. It's not a small program.) 18:51:30 There are 224637 files. I've had filesystems with less inodes than that. 18:53:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:54:51 Now if I could only figure out how to tell this Unity thing to do focus-follows-mouse instead of click-to-focus. 18:55:07 (Or maybe there's a modifier key for click-to-focus-but-not-raise?) 18:57:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:02:25 fizzie: the advanced unity settings are accessible via compizconfig settings manager, which isn't installed by default 19:02:31 but I'm not sure whether that's one of them 19:02:55 -!- augur has joined. 19:03:07 I think I'll just try to live without it. 19:03:44 At least MATLAB -- The Language of Technical Computing -- runs okay. Though there's a vaguely Ribbon-y toolbar in it now. 19:03:49 (This is R2010b.) 19:03:59 fizzie: compizconfig settings manager > general options > focus & raise behaviour 19:04:04 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:06 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:04:13 you have "click to focus", "raise on click", and "auto-raise" options 19:04:38 I guess click-to-focus without raise-on-click would've been okay. 19:04:45 (Sadly, I already shut the computer down.) 19:04:53 yeah, and then you can keybind something else to raise if you want to be able to change which window is on top 19:05:35 the other things is that you can lock windows as topmost using the window menu, that's what I normally do; the problem is that the window menu doesn't exist by default 19:05:50 and to turn it on you need to go into an entirely different set of settings 19:07:24 fizzie: did you forget a ™ 19:07:48 Apparently what I forgot was a ®. 19:07:55 fizzie: btw, what's your usecase for focusing without raising a window? 19:08:08 I've always wondered why people did that 19:08:20 and assumed it was something to do with typing into forms 19:08:55 ais523: I've got a piece of MATLAB® code that expects a keypress in the command window to iterate a single step, then replots the (existing) figure windows, and I wanted to keep stepping while the image windows were floating on top of the command window. 19:09:08 fizzie: right 19:09:23 I'd do that by pinning the image windows as topmost, with my setup, but sadly that /also/ needs customization :( 19:09:40 or if I was feeling particularly inane, making the command window transparent and leaving the image window behind it 19:10:42 I'd normally do it e.g. by floating the image windows and leaving the main MATLAB window on the tiling layer -- well, OTOH there's focus-follows-mouse in my normal setup, so it's not an issue in any case -- but the laptop's Linux side is a bit... between configurations. 19:12:49 Also curious: the "Displays" settings thing only had the laptop's native resolution in the drop-down; nothing smaller. I'm hoping it'll play nice with the projector, which certainly won't do 1080p. 1024x768, maybe. 19:14:01 fizzie: if you attach more than one screen it works out a common resolution 19:15:15 It had a mirror-screens checkbox, though grayed out at the time. 19:16:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:18:18 fizzie: you need multiple screens for it to work 19:20:13 Oh, a curious thing, too: recent nvidia binary drivers report the actual monitors and stuff in "xrandr -q". 19:21:14 I don't know if it can be actually configurated over xrandr, but at least the information query is now sane. It used to just return a single output with the bounding box size, and made-up refresh rates to differentiate between modes of the same (combined) size. 19:26:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:28:55 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:33:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:37:43 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:52:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:52:51 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 19:55:49 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:55:56 USA postal stamps say "USA FIRST-CLASS FOREVER" 19:55:57 real subtle 19:56:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:56:26 elliott, first year of the fortress is almost over 19:57:15 excellent 19:58:04 Ours say SUOMI FINLAND 1 luokka/klass or something similar. No mention about the foreverness. I guess it's implied when there's no monetary amount. 19:58:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:58:43 -!- augur has joined. 19:59:05 USA postal stamps say "USA FIRST-CLASS FOREVER" <-- really? .... wow 19:59:25 yes 19:59:26 it's because they're permanently valued stamps (nominally) 19:59:52 meaning they are always good for first-class mail, rather than having a nominal dollar value 20:00:00 ah 20:01:39 @list messages 20:01:39 tell provides: tell ask messages messages? clear-messages 20:03:55 ?messages 20:03:56 You don't have any new messages. 20:06:59 Why do many hotels require a keycard in the elevator? They try to increase security, but actually it reduces security. Some also require it in the stairs, which is against the fire code, although some don't (so when I didn't have the keycard, I went up the stairs to the 16th floor to knock on their door). 20:07:01 mess?ages 20:07:42 zzo38, I have never seen that 20:08:05 Some allow going to any floor with the keycard, while some only allow to go to your own floor. Going only to your own floor makes it much easier for thieves to get in. 20:08:30 ah? 20:08:35 also I don't like the new fangled key card concept, A proper physical key was much less annoying to fit in a pocket. Also what would happen if the power is out? Can't use the key card then... 20:08:56 obviously all doors open if the power fails 20:09:10 hotels go all lord of the flies immediately 20:09:27 Bike: not the shining? 20:09:34 i haven't seen the shining, so no 20:09:49 let's aim for a combination. 20:10:00 HEEEEERE'S PIGGY or something 20:10:11 Vorpal: Maybe they have a backup? You may be correct, though. 20:10:23 The point I was making is something else though. 20:10:29 also piggy dies by begin pushed from the 98th floor 20:10:33 *being 20:10:35 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:11:56 Vorpal: they might have batteries in the doors, perhaps? 20:12:06 maybe 20:12:07 I don't think I've ever been in a hotel with more than about 6 floors 20:12:13 Taneb, same 20:16:07 I keep hotel key cards in the wallet. 20:16:11 While staying at hotels, I mean, I don't generally wander around with random hotel keycards, that would be kinda suspicious. 20:16:13 i recall when i was a wee one and we were visiting Bodø (a regional center in northern norway, but not really large) we made a point of visiting the SAS hotel there because it was something like 10 stories and the tallest building in the county or something. and take the elevator to the top. so i've been at least in that high a hotel. 20:16:35 oerjan: Did you need a keycard in the elevator? 20:16:50 doubtful, this was the 70s i think. 20:17:32 I've been pretty high in an office building 20:17:40 since then i've been in the CN tower in toronto, although i don't think that's a hotel. 20:17:47 Taneb: Is that altogether legal? 20:18:17 fizzie, who knows 20:18:30 Yeah, the 88th floor is probably the highest I've been 20:18:50 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:59 oerjan has been to other countries? 20:19:01 oh, since the 70s. 20:19:13 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:19:22 Wait, it wasn't an office building 20:19:27 It's apartments 20:19:38 fizzie: i assume one of the points of the keycards, at least the electronic ones, is that they stop working when you check out so that it doesn't matter much if one is stolen. 20:19:49 i recall when i was a wee one and we were visiting Bodø (a regional center in northern norway, but not really large) we made a point of visiting the SAS hotel there because it was something like 10 stories and the tallest building in the county or something. and take the elevator to the top. so i've been at least in that high a hotel. <-- 10 stories the largest? Wow 20:19:56 I didn't realize Norway was that small 20:20:13 doubtful, this was the 70s i think. <-- man, how does it feel being that old? XD 20:20:14 Sometimes -- at least in my SimTower games -- a building may have more than one type of thing in it. 20:20:26 fizzie, SimTower? 20:20:28 Vorpal: the nordland county doesn't really have any cities 20:20:38 I used to play SimTower! 20:20:48 Vorpal: It's a Sim game where you run a skyscraper. 20:20:51 in troms i guess tromsø might count as one 20:20:54 The Vancouver Hotel used to be the tallest building in Vancouver. Now it is the smallest building. 20:20:56 oerjan, right. How many inhabitants are there in Oslo btw? (I assume that is the largest city?) 20:20:59 It's a game published but not developed by Maxis or something 20:21:13 but otherwise northern norway is very sparsely inhabited even compared to the rest of norway 20:21:25 Taneb, ah 20:21:26 ~duck oslo 20:21:27 Formerly Christiania The capital and largest city of Norway, in the southeast part of the country at the head of the Oslo Fjord, a deep inlet of the Skagerrak. 20:21:28 Vorpal: half a million or so? i don't recall 20:21:38 624000 20:21:43 oerjan, so about half the size of Stockholm then 20:21:48 or a little more than half 20:21:54 Taneb: There was some kind of a... maybe vaguely undocumented trick (modifier keys?) so that your lobby floor could be two or three floors high. It made fancy escalators then. 20:22:00 it used to be 400000 way back, but it keeps growing 20:22:09 is there a wolfram alpha bot? 20:22:30 would be useful: !wa inhabitants of Oslo 20:22:32 elliott: you may note i'm implicitly claiming having been to canada, there 20:22:39 Vorpal: It would be against the Terms of Services. 20:22:44 fizzie, oh, right 20:22:46 I prefer to use the stairs but nobody else I go with wants to use the stairs so we use the elevator instead. 20:22:52 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:55 Speaking of floors and legality: I think it's kind of funny that the grocery stores underground near the (Helsinki) railway station have always stayed open without any respect to rules and regulations that govern the opening hours of shops elsewhere. It's like, underground, the Laws of Man yield to the Laws of Nature. 20:23:10 zzo38, what is wrong with using the elevator? 20:23:11 oerjan: well when i round everyone up we can go find out if canada really exists 20:23:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:23:13 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:23:14 you are on the list btw 20:23:22 the `clist? 20:23:30 Vorpal: I just prefer to use the stairs. 20:23:47 fizzie, are there rules forbidding shops from being open 24/7? 20:23:59 zzo38: you should go by yourself more often so you can choose your mode of transportation freely 20:24:06 have you all proven canada's existence beyond ottawa lately, or is canada's status still limited to that city? 20:24:09 Vorpal: mind you there are taller buildings than that in trondheim. the university math building has 13 floors. 20:24:18 `clist 20:24:22 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: clist: not found 20:24:38 boily: nothing says ottawa is in canada 20:24:50 olsner, okay 20:25:01 Vorpal: okay 20:25:07 dammit 20:25:08 I'm not okay. 20:25:08 oerjan, okay 20:25:10 XD 20:25:16 I claim solidity! 20:25:21 olsner, o fails me yet again 20:26:02 i thought two characters was standard 20:26:48 Bike, I generally don't need it since I have "tab to last speak first" + I generally notice the difference between nicks, But olsner and oerjan are both the same length. 20:27:40 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:27:46 Bike, I would notice the difference between Bike and boily for example: Look very different. oerjan and olsner look pretty similar though. 20:28:01 hint: it's the letters that differ 20:28:04 sorry i'm illiterate and can't read what you said 20:28:04 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:28:09 olsner, you don't say 20:28:28 they should rename themselves oshort and olong, therefore they'd have a different length nick. 20:28:42 oolong 20:30:34 > length "oolong" == length "oshort" 20:30:36 True 20:31:13 or maybe we should be tall and short instead? 20:32:19 (wild guess: we're both average height) 20:32:21 @yarrjn 20:32:21 May the clap make ye incapable of Cracking Jenny's Tea Cup. 20:32:27 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:50 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:33:04 Vorpal: I haven't been keeping track on the rules and regulations, and they've switched them around. But at least at some point there were rules, and they somehow depended on the size of the store in question. 20:33:13 Bike: no it's not the c list 20:33:20 alist, if anything 20:33:28 `ølist 20:33:29 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ølist: not found 20:33:30 Also http://www.eeggs.com/items/359.html SimTower 2- or 3-story lobby just look at it. 20:33:31 I thought that was the list for antarctica. 20:33:33 fizzie, heh 20:34:06 or is that just everyone. is everyone going to antarctica. 20:34:47 no roads lead to antarctica, but somehow everyone ends up there anyway 20:35:02 As someone who's stuck in Antarctica right now, I agree. 20:35:10 http://www.angelfire.com/wi2/zell/simtower/guide.html also there's a picture on what escalators and stairs will look like in the SuperLobby. 20:35:11 Man. This winter is going to suck. 20:35:17 I suppose it could've been mentioned in the manual. 20:36:24 I also remember that thing that you can build more lobbies on floors 25, 50 and 75. 20:36:33 (Those can't be extra-high, I don't think.) 20:37:11 Or maybe it's every 15th floor. 20:37:28 Man. This winter is going to suck. <-- speaking of that, it snowed the day before yesterday 20:37:30 not much though 20:37:35 or wait, was it yesterday 20:37:37 one or the other 20:37:43 didn't actually stay on the ground 20:37:45 It snowed here yesterday. 20:37:51 but yeah, this winter is blergh 20:37:54 lasting way too long 20:37:54 Vorpal: this being sweden, it probably snowed both of those days? 20:37:57 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:38:01 olsner, actually no 20:38:09 I'm not up in the north 20:38:14 Snow here always sticks. 20:38:22 olsner, but this is one slow winter 20:38:29 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 20:38:33 Really annoying 20:38:35 I've been able to survive without a winter jacket for several days now, so it seems to be letting go 20:38:55 well yes 20:38:56 It snows most in the middle of summer (i.e. December). In the winter, it's usually too cold for snow. 20:39:01 My current bus ticket expires on April 26th, I was hoping for snowless roads by then, I don't do the whole bicycle-in-a-snow thing the other people do, it sounds a bit too sporty. 20:39:11 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:39:15 olsner, I have an early spring/late autumn jacket now 20:39:36 tswett, where is that? 20:39:42 Antarctica. 20:39:46 hah 20:39:50 too cold for snow? does it rain CO2 or something instead? 20:40:01 tswett, I thought you were in UK? 20:40:03 No, there just isn't any precipitation. 20:40:23 fizzie, or use a car? 20:40:28 fizzie, if you have one that is 20:40:49 tswett, seriously are you on Antarctica? 20:40:50 Vorpal: nope. I was born in Australia, and then I moved to Finland for school, and I was planning to go on a vacation to Antarctica but now it turns out I'm stuck here. 20:41:12 tswett, here being Antarctica? 20:41:15 Yeah. 20:41:22 tswett, stuck? Why? 20:41:33 Bike: you fail to understand 20:41:41 Bike: the same people who go to antarctica are also going to canada. 20:41:44 Apparently my student visa in Finland has expired and then Australia no longer considers me a citizen. 20:42:00 tswett, no longer a citizen? Why? 20:42:09 tswett: Does that make you stateless? 20:42:10 So... you are not a citizen of anywhere? 20:42:13 And you are not joking? 20:42:16 Yeah, what pikhq said. 20:42:20 ouch 20:42:25 well, I need to sleep 20:42:26 cya 20:42:29 See you. 20:42:44 I guess there's some legal thing about this. Like. 20:43:18 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:43:21 Congrats on having an easy way to European citizenship. 20:43:22 send a mail to the mayor of hexham, maybe they'll let you in 20:43:37 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:43:46 My parents have never been Australian citizens, but having been born in Australia, I was a citizen there, but in order to maintain my citizenship status, I couldn't leave the country for two years continuously before the age of 23. 20:44:04 elliott: Some kind of `calist? Are you out of your mind? 20:44:11 I didn't actually know that until I'd already been in Finland for three years. 20:44:15 tswett: Which nation are they citizens of? 20:44:17 pikhq: oh? What's that? 20:44:22 The US. 20:44:26 tswett, you have much more of a claim to Australian citizenship than I do 20:44:30 Oh, you're not stateless then. 20:44:41 And yet, I have an Australian citizenship 20:44:46 Bike: they are all also going to wherever the people after them on the list live, to pick them up. 20:44:49 Taneb: how's that? 20:44:58 My dad's Australian 20:45:02 By the way, you've got back taxes. 20:45:02 * tswett nods. 20:45:07 You're an American citizen. 20:45:14 Bike: I'll probably start with Taneb and then PH, because they are nearest. you may be close to last. 20:45:35 ...I see. So what happens if I go there and I can't pay my taxes? 20:45:43 elliott, if you get me first the universe may end 20:45:46 I have no idea. 20:45:50 Hopefully they'd just garnish my income or something and not throw me in jail... 20:45:51 Which is either stupid or a brilliant plan 20:45:57 maybe they cancel your citizenship and export you 20:46:01 olsner: No. 20:46:04 elliott: so it's like a chain huh 20:46:06 tswett: It's something like that. 20:46:07 Taneb: that is okay. what will be worth doing after the trip, after all? 20:46:19 Bike: yes 20:46:22 a linked list of people 20:46:24 Basically, the US taxes the income of its citizens. Regardless of the jurisdiction where they made that income. 20:46:26 I don't think there are any circumstances under which the US will terminate citizenship. Well, other than by request. 20:46:30 uh `llist 20:46:36 * tswett nods. 20:46:45 Yes, it's actually really tricky to terminate US citizenship. 20:46:47 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:46:54 You have to be *really trying*. 20:47:08 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:47:10 Gregor: What if you do something really stupid, and they're just that embarrassed to have you one of their citizens. 20:47:20 fizzie: Then you become President. 20:47:30 But yeah. The US does jus sanguinis. You have always been an American citizen. 20:47:36 fizzie america has people literally going to libya to shoot at people we have pretty high standards for stupidity 20:47:47 Good to know. 20:47:55 pikhq, my gran was born in California, but never claimed citizenship 20:47:59 How does that affect me? 20:48:00 I wonder if I should actually move, though? I actually really like the people here. 20:48:09 Taneb: You too are a citizen, but that is tricky to prove. 20:48:15 Taneb: When are you moving to CA? 20:48:17 (This is all a joke, btw; I assume everyone already knows that.) 20:48:25 The climate is... yeah, a bit problematic. 20:48:42 In UK secondary schools do you have something like a major field of study, like in post-secondary? 20:48:52 Bike, ish 20:48:54 tswett: how far back does the joke go? 20:49:08 Because this form is asking me for my high school major and i'm baffled. 20:49:14 baffled and american 20:49:15 But living here really makes people feel closer to each other. And lots of them are scientific researchers, so that's really cool. 20:49:30 US citizenship is viral :3 20:49:37 Taneb: If you're serious about it you may need to find a lawyer to get shit in order. 20:49:44 * boily pampers his canadian passport 20:49:49 pikhq, I... don't really want to be a US citizen 20:49:56 If you've ever spoken with a US citizen, you're a US citizen. 20:49:57 That said, you basically will just be demonstrating that you already *have* the citizenship. 20:49:59 olsner: everything I've said so far is part of the joke. 20:50:06 are you sure? you get semi-exclusive rights to be dronestriked 20:50:10 dronestruck 20:50:10 `? tswett 20:50:12 tswett? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:50:17 If you're aware of the existence of the United States, you're a US citizen. 20:50:27 Taneb: But come on, you could actually vote for the President. :P 20:50:31 `learn tswett is livin' it up with the penguins 20:50:35 I knew that. 20:50:35 Gregor: Only if you're also not aware of the existence of any other country. 20:50:43 pikhq, I don't need a third citizenship! 20:50:53 Taneb: Sorry, de jure you have one. 20:50:55 Taneb is american? 20:51:00 Phantom_Hoover, apparently! 20:51:07 what is the theoretical maximum citizenship number you can achieve? 20:51:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:51:08 Wikipedia seems to suggest that there's actually some conditions that apply, depending on if one or two parents were citizens, and whether they were married or not. 20:51:10 apparently i'm irish 20:51:20 Actually, oh god. If you're feeling crazy you could just fly to America and apply for a social security card. 20:51:23 pikhq: wait. So because Taneb's grandmother was born in CA, the US considers Taneb to owe taxes on everything he/she earns? 20:51:32 despite the fact that /none/ of my family have lived in the republic 20:51:33 You can "just fly to America"? 20:51:45 tswett: He could enter on one of his passports. 20:51:46 tswett, us Hexhamers all have wings 20:51:53 pikhq: *not* 20:52:09 And then ignore the visa requirements because he's a legally residing citizen. 20:52:17 Pronounced /ˈhɛksəmər/. 20:52:20 tswett: Unless Taneb's mother/father lost citizenship, yes he's a citizen. 20:52:42 Or Taneb's grandmother. 20:52:49 pikhq: so, does that mean that you're a citizen as long as any of your ancestors have been citizens, and nothing weird has happened in the middle? 20:52:57 Taneb: Did either of your parents even ever live in the US? 20:53:08 Roughly. I think there's a couple extra rules, but yeah. 20:53:18 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:53:18 fizzie, no 20:53:24 My gran did until she was 3, I think 20:53:30 I feel like this is the most ridiculous discussion I've seen in this channel. 20:53:32 surely by now that includes some massive fraction of the human population 20:53:40 ("If both parents are U.S. citizens, the child is a citizen if either of the parents has ever had a residence in the U.S. prior to the child's birth; If one parent is a U.S. citizen and the other parent is a U.S. national, the child is a citizen if the U.S. citizen parent has lived in the U.S. for a continuous period of at least one year prior to the child's birth; If one parent is a U.S. ... 20:53:41 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:53:47 ... citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if; the U.S. citizen parent has been "physically present"[7] in the U.S. before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and; at least two of those five years were after the U.S. citizen parent's fourteenth birthday." 20:53:49 Looking it up now, and I am probably not a US citizen 20:53:52 And that was just the part for children born in wedlock. 20:53:58 Bike: you're in washington right 20:54:00 It doesn't sound all that straightforward. 20:54:03 Yes. 20:54:06 Argh, yeah, it's nutsier. 20:54:08 It's pretty far from Antarctica I'm afraid. 20:54:15 Taneb: Very specific details needed it sounds like. 20:54:22 Good thing my citizenship situation is really simple. 20:54:42 Taneb: Did either of your parents live in the US? 20:54:47 No 20:55:00 Only the UK, Australia, and Pakistan 20:55:08 My parents are US citizens who have always lived in US-controlled places, and so am I. I've also only ever been outside the country once, for, like, part of a day. 20:55:17 Taneb, good news, you're not american 20:55:21 Yay! 20:55:27 tswett, i... 20:55:34 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:55:38 which other country did you visit 20:55:40 If you really wanted to be your grandmother could probably sponsor you for immigration. :P 20:55:43 Canada. 20:55:58 "Wait, wait, Antarctica is part of USA?" 20:55:59 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 20:56:00 Slovakia. 20:56:02 But no, Canada. 20:56:17 tswett: are you sure it was canada? 20:56:41 secretly, i have an antarctican citizenship 20:56:41 I'm pretty sure it was Canada. 20:56:48 Might have been Mexico, but probably Canada. 20:57:07 maybe it was just disneyland 20:57:09 But no, it was definitely Canada. 20:57:42 I'm in one of those funny places where if I want to go to Canada, the shortest way is to go east-southeast. 20:58:00 Detroit? 20:58:02 New England? I'm sorry. 20:58:08 Not quite Detroit. 20:58:27 Hmm, right, you would've actually just said "south" thin. 20:58:29 *then 20:58:36 oh, or alaska i suppose. 20:58:43 Could be Alaska. 20:58:56 -!- btiffin has joined. 20:58:58 I'm reasonably close to New York, though. 20:59:09 In which case I'd tell you I'm sorry, but you'd be dead by the time you got my message 20:59:14 It's only two states away, if you consider Ontario a state. 20:59:36 'Fraid I consider Canada a state. 21:00:04 I'm not sure whether or not I live in the convex hull of Canada. 21:01:15 Okay, I do live in the convex hull of Canada. 21:01:29 I live beside Hull 21:01:34 If you draw a line from Victoria to Windsor, I'm pretty sure I'm north of that line. 21:01:40 Across a river. 21:01:53 i'm pretty sure i'd notice if i lived in a hull 21:02:35 The line *is* pretty curvy on a Google-Maps-projection map, though, if you want to draw a great-circle line. 21:03:14 The straight-in-that-projection line would've pretty much put the whole of North Dakota inside the famed Convex Hull of Canada. 21:03:20 btiffin, you don't live in hexham by any chance 21:03:23 I used to sleep in the bow, not from off the hull, curled up on top of wet fishing nets when I a was a wee lad. Very comfortable bouncing in rough swells. 21:04:03 Oh yeah, Google-Maps-projection lines aren't the same as great circle lines. 21:04:16 What's that map projection that maps great circles onto lines? 21:04:38 I don't know, but Google Maps' "ruler" tool draws great-circle lines on their map. 21:04:54 Since when does Google Maps have a ruler tool... 21:04:59 Hull was too English though, so when the world amalgamated it's cities, Hull become Gatineau 21:05:00 It might be a tool that needs to be toggled on from some settings thing. 21:05:28 mercantile? 21:05:29 When turned on, it's right there in the lower-left corner next to the scale. 21:05:55 Yes, it's one of the Maps Labs things. 21:06:16 Phantom_Hoover: Ottawa 21:06:18 (Bottom of the left sidebar, "Distance Measurement Tool". It's very handy. It lets you draw polylines and reports their length.) 21:07:46 Okay, so I still live in the convex hull of Canada. 21:08:59 tswett, move to Hull 21:09:07 Is Hull in the convex hull of Canada? 21:09:27 Nah, it's somewhere in the UK 21:09:48 I think we're actually pretty far North, relative to Windsor 21:10:05 there's a Hull in massachusetts 21:10:44 -!- pib1999 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:12:01 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 21:13:08 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 21:13:18 Ottawa is apparently about 13 degrees south of here 21:14:27 And 10 degrees south of here 21:15:17 i guess most place names in England are duplicated in Massachusetts 21:15:41 massachusetts is pretend england 21:15:41 kmc, I'd be highly surprised if it's even a third 21:15:42 I think I'm about 60.2 degrees north of the equator. 21:15:59 "Hull is the worst place to live in the UK" -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/4136342.stm 21:16:41 sounds like that'd be close to the southernmost part of finland 21:17:14 olsner: Most of Finland, as measured by population, is. (Well, maybe not quite "most".) 21:17:53 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:17:57 Yep, we Canadians have all amassed right up on the US border. 90% of our population with 200 km. They have a nicer fireplace to warm fingers with. 21:18:32 canadian invasion O: 21:19:21 I can only get generic "center coordinates" of countries from W|A, I don't know how to tell it to compute the centroid of people living here. 21:19:26 Canada is perhaps the country I've been second-closest to without ever visiting 21:20:52 I don't think I've been closer to Canada than the Seattle airport. Though I'm not sure what sort of route the plane took. 21:21:14 Northern Montana 21:21:31 Crap load of space just waiting for global warming to catch up. 21:21:32 i lived in various parts of canada 21:22:17 If this flightmapper.net line is accurate (though it looks like a straight line), maybe I've flown over Canada. I guess that doesn't count as visiting? 21:23:07 my same named cousin has lived there all his life 21:23:14 I think we still parcel out 500 acres (200 hectares) of land for anyone willing to stake a claim and work land for resources. Though I do believe you have to pass a sanity test first now. 21:36:40 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:37:02 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 21:38:11 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:38:20 -!- pib2013 has joined. 21:38:37 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 21:39:12 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:39:13 (This is all a joke, btw; I assume everyone already knows that.) <-- i'm _not_ betting on Vorpal hth 21:40:04 I'm still struggling to figure out exactly what part of tswett is a joke 21:40:05 Vorpal: key cards are a lot more convenient for the hotel though 21:40:13 I'M BETTING IT ALL THAT VORPAL IS REAL 21:40:19 they can reprogram them for every guest, so you can't just steal a card and sneak in later 21:40:22 I'M BETTING IT ALL 21:40:28 shachaf: bet it all on black 21:40:39 black and yellow 21:40:40 here we go again 21:41:08 hi monqy 21:41:32 kmc: Sadly, [insert that thing about electronic hotel locks that you can program to do whatever with inexpensive hardware and that are in like half the hotels anywhere]. 21:41:37 or should i call you........james/brian 21:41:50 O well. 21:42:12 shachaf: no 21:42:25 oh 21:43:20 That thing with an Arduino in it, I forget which lock it was. 21:43:28 Onity. 21:43:43 http://daeken.com/blackhat-paper 21:43:43 Gregor: explain to olsner exactly what part of me is a joke. 21:43:49 I guess that's the thing I was thinking of. 21:43:53 monqy: is your fathers name also monqy 21:44:09 no 21:44:27 your mother? 21:44:56 no 21:45:08 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:45:16 monqy: is your own name monqy? 21:45:41 no 21:46:16 Trivia: the e in Ngevd either doesn't stand for anything or stands for "Eliot". 21:46:26 I am sorry to have mislead you. 21:46:29 Goodnight. 21:46:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:46:52 Canada. <-- aha now i understand this canada thing; it's something the us invented so people can claim to have been outside the country! 21:47:26 AIUI, the next-to-US parts of Mexico are kind of used for the same purpose. 21:47:50 (Perhaps it depends on if you're in the north or the south?) 21:48:32 I think canada is where you go to avoid getting drafted, and mexico is where you go when you accidentally kill someone and have to avoid the law 21:48:56 mexico is where you go to get extra drunk if you're a college student in southern california 21:49:29 border towns typically have a seedy aspect, especially when one country is much richer 21:50:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bordering_countries_with_greatest_relative_differences_in_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita is an interesting list 21:50:39 wikipedia and lists! 21:50:51 yemen can't get a break 21:50:55 list of all lists that do not contain self-referential humor about lists 21:51:10 macau and hong kong are countries, huh 21:51:13 you should make a program that injects bad facts into wikipedia pages when you fetch them over http 21:51:28 DR Congo makes the list with practically all of its neighbors 21:51:52 Yay, Finland/Russia made the list. (Though at #121 it's maybe nothing to write home about.) 21:52:04 shachaf: much like that program that keeps inserting references to canada? 21:52:06 finland, so poor 21:52:07 "the British Overseas Territories of Akrotiri and Dhekelia located in the island of Cyprus" how do europeans even do anything, you must cross a border on your way out of bed 21:52:12 What's that map projection that maps great circles onto lines? <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomonic_projection 21:52:22 Norway/Russia is like #79. 21:52:29 i think before i looked at this list, my guess for #1 was the Korean border 21:52:30 but it's only #3 21:52:45 zimbabwe :( 21:53:01 I guess it's a trap for Westerners who think "Africa is poor" because while Africa is poor, some parts of Africa are way poorer than others 21:53:29 I don't know if the Zimbabwe numbers can even be trusted 21:53:45 i think i can trust that zimbabwe's had a shitty economic time, though 21:53:47 generally a problem when your currency hyperinflates and people start using candy and fast food coupons instead 21:53:50 yeah 21:54:10 seriously, the fast food restaurants there have issued their own payment chits (which are decently well produced, they have holograms and stuff) 21:54:28 welp. 21:54:28 this for making change in quantities smaller than the smallest available USD / ZAR / etc. bills 21:54:32 #69 is probably the highest up of the borders I've crossed. :/ (And it's only there because Liechtenstein is so silly.) 21:54:43 heh 21:54:55 i've crossed #65 21:55:59 Heh, Liechtenstein leads the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita 21:56:58 There's a nice list (well, template) of lists of countries by different kinds of GDP rankings. 21:57:39 ~eval 50565 / 47882 21:57:40 -!- augur has joined. 21:57:42 Error (1): 21:57:43 Lesotho is an enclave within a country five times as rich 21:57:44 ~eval 50565 / 47882 21:57:46 that must be weird 21:57:46 1.0560335825571197 21:58:45 Albania: Bet It All On Bunkers 21:58:51 I'M BETTING IT ALL THAT VORPAL IS REAL <-- i think you may have misinterpreted my non-bet, hth 21:59:11 There's no "List of bordering countries with smallest relative differences in GDP (PPP) per capita". 22:02:23 Someone on LinkedIn just pondered about unlambda in OpenCOBOL. Off to learn something new. Tarball has a .c implementation, so that part is linked already, but now to figure out how to pass values 22:02:44 Germany/Belgium has a ratio of about 1.008 (with the CIA World Factbook GDP/PPP numbers), that's quite close to 1. 22:02:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jean_Louis_Th%C3%A9odore_G%C3%A9ricault_001.jpg just pasting this here because it's my favorite painting ever 22:03:04 horses 22:03:19 Bike: Are those the Four Horsemen of the Apoclopolypse? 22:03:27 >:\ 22:03:33 looks like 1 long horse 22:03:37 Bike: um i demand my paintings to have unwavering bands of light 22:03:41 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:03:47 is that that thing on the right 22:04:43 looks more like a pole 22:04:56 Horseusine: a luxury horse with a compartment for the passengers and a separate compartment for the driver. 22:05:03 but what is a pole doing in epsom instead of poland 22:05:46 kmc: Did mosh get accepted to SoC? 22:06:06 no :/ 22:06:12 :-( 22:06:24 imo add a special no-google-employee clause to the license 22:06:41 Oh, you already said in the channel. 22:08:08 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:12:31 There's no "List of bordering countries with smallest relative differences in GDP (PPP) per capita". <-- for some reason some of them were listed in the text of the other list article, though 22:13:48 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:14:15 Lucky anagram, unlambdacobol, A Bland Coulomb, name chosen for me. lambdacobol would have been Ballad Combo 22:16:25 btiffin: i'm sure writing an unlambda interpreter directly in cobol cannot be worse than in intercal 22:19:08 intercal is basically a parody of cobol right? 22:19:31 maybe more of fortran? 22:19:50 a parody of several old languages, several of which i probably don't know? 22:20:22 it's intended goal is to be different from all of them, anyhow 22:20:25 *its 22:20:33 i don't remember intercal being much like fortran, from what little i know of either 22:20:49 Bike: well it has arrays. 22:22:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:22:37 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:36:34 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:37:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:40:03 kmc: You could go be a mentor for haskell.org instead! 22:40:21 shrug 22:40:49 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:42:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:43:41 -!- Regis__ has joined. 22:44:31 guys lets make a lang 22:44:49 k 22:45:53 how about one that mimics some animal 22:47:27 yeah like a brainfuck derivative that mimics monkeys or cows 22:47:34 highly innovative language design imo 22:48:20 elliott: uhhhh monkeys don't say ook 22:48:23 i'm p. sure i read that somewhere 22:48:58 Perhaps there is a better way than like that anyways, though 22:51:02 callabc.cob just compiled and evaluated hello.unl, A Bland Coulomb, phase 1 complete, now for the data passing parts. Which means learning wtf unlambda is. 22:52:23 elliott: um probably he means like homespring 22:52:36 elliott: because who would in this day and age even consider making another ook :] 22:53:40 shachaf: apes do, though 22:54:03 oerjan: well obviously we do 22:55:45 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:57:36 hey i like animals 22:57:42 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:57:51 what if we use a lang from lord of the rings 22:58:06 finnish? 22:58:09 Well then you wouldn't be making it, you'd be pretending you're Tolkien. 22:58:15 bike seizes the opportunity to apply his knowledge 22:58:34 QUIZ: is finnish an esoland y/n 22:58:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:59:06 g 22:59:10 i guess finland would be the esoland 22:59:15 for example, you could make a duck-like esolang, that defiles conspecial corpses 22:59:18 and finnish the esolang 22:59:21 or is that estonia?????? 23:00:49 i don't think estonia is an animal, per se 23:01:20 estonians more like esotnians 23:01:40 quiz: are the latvian countries a ring species 23:02:12 QUIZ: is norway exists imo no 23:02:51 Regis__, already exists, is boring 23:03:39 how about brainfuck with threads 23:04:20 oops already exists 23:09:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:11:02 how about dont even think about making a brainfuck derivative because unless you really know what you're doing it will invariably be bad 23:11:24 Oh, meh. Everyone makes a Brainfuck derivative. 23:13:21 monqy: um what about there once was a fish named fred "even amateurs can make valuable contributions to the field" 23:13:32 shachaf: :☺) 23:13:54 monqy: how can i be more like you 23:13:59 good question 23:14:32 oh no i just got a youtube subscriber 23:14:33 what 23:14:35 how 23:14:38 what did i do wrong :'( 23:15:01 make a youtube account 23:15:13 /made? i thought i had typed made but noooooo 23:15:20 maybe it was a command 23:18:11 http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html 23:18:21 so is this some well-known thing that i'm late to the party for 23:19:55 Regis__: indented bf. indent = [ outdent = ] 23:24:06 `slis 23:24:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: slis: not found 23:24:08 `slist 23:24:09 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:25:47 Phantom_Hoover: this is cute 23:26:13 oh ive seen that 23:26:18 it doesnt work very well 23:26:43 i love when it doesn't work 23:27:22 it seems to vary a lot from song to song 23:27:32 iirc a couple i tried earlier worked well 23:29:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:30:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:31:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:33:06 http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html?trid=TRVHPII13AFF43D495 hahaha 23:34:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:43:43 -!- btiffin has left. 23:43:52 Really, Indiana? Thunderstorms? For realsies? Right when I'm doing laundry? 23:44:54 wait Gregor is in indiana now? 23:45:36 he always has been hasnt he 23:46:16 he used to be in oregon although i do remember he left that. i thought he was on the east coast. isn't indiana sort of midwest? 23:46:47 purdue is in indiana(i think?? that's what 'IN' stands for right) sooooooooo 23:46:50 so it is 23:46:54 ah. 23:47:40 hm i'm probably confusing with someone else. who here was in georgia? 23:49:05 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:52:41 purdue is INdiana 23:52:45 oerjan: cake profit 23:52:58 wat 23:53:04 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 23:53:09 phe 23:53:46 wait do you mean... 23:54:14 wow i didnt think this one would be ahrd 23:54:15 hard 23:54:16 nope 23:54:27 oh 23:54:39 cake prophet??? i meant cake prophet 23:54:40 kallisti: elliott is trying to confuse me! 23:55:01 i make up for it by remembering your current nick 23:58:00 elliott: what actually happened was i didn't connect your answer to my question but instead with reddit cakes, so i scrambled to check if it was my reddit birthday (it's not) 23:58:11 weird mind is 23:58:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:59:11 ah. 2013-04-09: 00:00:07 elliott: although you wouldn't know since by what i see you haven't been there in six months. unless you have another account? but then i would be recalling recent r/haskell comments, i expect. 00:01:19 * oerjan finds u/elliott which seems completely unused but six years old. 00:01:22 i read /r/haskell (and /r/roguelikes though that's mostly to laugh at people saying silly things) 00:01:30 nothing else and i never comment any more 00:02:06 well I also laugh at people saying silly things in /r/haskell 00:03:01 well i hope you have more interesting things to do instead. 00:03:20 what could be more interesting than reddit *laugh track* 00:03:55 Bike: i'm sorry that needs to be a link to quickmeme 00:04:01 thankfully /r/haskell is getting worse 00:04:04 I'm sorry too 00:04:07 so I may be able to quit entirely 00:04:10 about that 00:05:06 actually i'm not sure if quickmeme is still prevalent, since i stopped browsing the largest subreddits 00:06:06 i still have r/science there, but lately i've rarely got around to it since i browse my subreddits mostly smallest first 00:07:16 and r/programming but i don't think that's very memy. or maybe i'm just mind ignoring. 00:07:33 /r/programming is awful 00:07:57 pop quiz: elliott, name something that isn't awful 00:08:02 elliott: i've realized i mostly just click the haskell links in it 00:08:12 is there an r/lambda calculus ? 00:08:15 Bike: hmmmm 00:08:17 Bike: maybe dreams 00:08:17 doesthiswork: yes 00:08:20 i recall it 00:08:26 oh i only have nightmares 00:08:30 it was pretty tiny though 00:09:53 r/physics and r/math are probably my favorite intermediate size ones 00:11:31 i find r/askhistorians nearly as addictive as tvtropes once i start browsing it, but it's big so i rarely do 00:14:41 what's wrong with mezzacotta today :( ... oh there it finally loaded 00:16:19 what about a lang without global variables 00:16:32 you have to pass to a function everything you want it to know 00:16:35 forth? 00:16:46 Regis__: welcome to haskell 00:17:09 the way i pictured it it'd be imperative 00:17:31 imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try 00:19:27 this is old news but the fact that a function can have a different function hidden inside it is fascinating to me 00:19:41 that'd be a pure dataflow language 00:20:07 hidden? 00:20:27 like when you only care about wether a number is even '+' is equivalent to iff 00:20:51 and multiply is 'or' 00:21:50 doesthiswork: ah algebraic quotients 00:25:22 like this 00:25:24 http://pastebin.com/UzKjsgPd 00:26:05 unsummon self 00:26:55 what kind of witchery is this? 00:29:07 oerjan has it right 00:29:10 (thumbs up) 00:29:54 all functions are loops, except the builtins 00:30:48 so you have to tell it when to stop 00:31:09 regis__ have you read the iterate manual? 00:31:23 Regis__, Newspeak? 00:31:40 haven't 00:31:52 what's newspeak? 00:32:03 http://newspeaklanguage.org/ 00:32:11 Language based on Smalltalk that tries to have no global state 00:33:44 message-based? 00:33:51 yeah 00:33:53 And OO 00:34:10 Regis__: could you walk me through this program? 00:34:16 yes 00:34:26 Not intended to be esoteric 00:34:49 I made loopxy first 00:34:54 which is the inner loop 00:35:25 in loopxy x is constant, only y varies 00:35:34 so "bind self loopxy conjure empty" is the function signature? 00:35:49 bindself creates a variable 00:36:06 it starts with an empty function, then you add commands 00:36:26 enchant adds commands? 00:36:29 yes 00:36:33 ah 00:37:04 now I think I can read it 00:37:19 I thought it'd be fun for functions altering functions at run time 00:37:26 but haven't done any of that yet 00:39:26 what does "skip 2" do? 00:41:11 -!- Regis__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:41:37 -!- Regis__ has joined. 00:43:24 Regis__: what does "skip 2" do? 00:50:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:50:45 * Your friends and colleagues describe you as a "rockstar" programmer; your programming ability is way above average; 00:50:49 http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2013-April/107479.html 00:51:08 it skips two commands 00:51:08 -!- augur has joined. 00:51:14 what's "agile" mean, if anything 00:51:16 ;_; 00:51:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:51:45 it will go right to set y (+ y 1) 00:51:58 man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" 00:52:09 I was above average in my below average school. Does that count? 00:52:11 hahaha 00:52:40 Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms through on your own time for fun 00:52:58 we find that people who put their arms through cows on thier own for fun are at least 10x more effective at doing so on the job 00:53:00 please provide at least two zebrafish you have modified to glow in the dark 00:53:29 my school had a box on the application that was just "put anything you want here" 00:53:32 Bike: have you put your arm through a cow ever 00:53:34 my friend stapled a dirty sock to it 00:53:43 haha 00:53:54 elliott: thankfully i'm not that much of a farmboy 00:54:00 -!- SDr has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:54:01 `addquote man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms through on your own time for fun 00:54:05 1017) man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms through on your own time for fun 00:54:06 "You are not afraid to get your hands dirty on low-level code, hijack 00:54:07 a malloc() call in the standard C library, port the latest gdb 00:54:07 debugger to Android on a jail-broken tablet? You get it done." 00:54:14 Bike: good (i can't be friends with anyone who has had their arm through a cow) 00:54:17 (sorry) 00:54:23 cowist 00:54:25 (it's nothing personal) 00:54:33 That.... if I felt a need to do anything like that, I'd be alarmed that either I was doing something wrong, or the libraries I was using were broken. 00:54:37 "Applicants must possess a BSc with a 1st class degree with a background in molecular biology, physiology, biology, zoology, or a related subject." see, how hard is that 00:54:42 elliott, what if you are 00:54:45 elliott: um ive gone "kinda deep" into some copy on write code............. 00:54:53 does that count 00:54:56 oerjan: imo the zebrafish line should be included 00:55:00 Phantom_Hoover: what if i am... what 00:55:08 yes but are you a rock star 00:55:10 already friends with someone who etc. 00:55:14 a cow star 00:55:20 do you have ridiculous 80s hair, a bad drug habit, and own 17 guitars? 00:55:21 a roc star 00:55:37 Fiora: yes. absolutely 00:55:39 copy on write code = libraries that can only be used by copying them into your project and then extensively modifying them 00:55:41 "The ideal candidate for the Ph.D. position would have a strong background in neuroscience and would be highly motivated to carry out demanding experimental procedures." i read "demeaning" 00:55:44 Fiora: that is my dream 00:55:59 Bike: Demanding, demeaning. Same thing. 00:56:08 oh man this other one? it puts "virtual reality" in scare quotes 00:56:12 kmc: zlib is generally treated as such. :) 00:56:16 «a “virtual reality” wind tunnel» 00:56:32 apparently this involves a real wind tunnel 00:56:37 that's p. virtual 00:56:47 You'd be surprised how many projects have straight copies of zlib in them. 00:56:48 `run sed -i '1017s/$/ please provide at least two zebrafish you have modified to glow in the dark/' quotes 00:56:50 No output. 00:56:52 Bike: which part is real, the wind or the tunnel 00:57:13 well, the tunnel 00:57:20 really the wind in a wind tunnel is always manufactured 00:57:39 virtual wind 00:57:40 I have some tomatoes I've geneticaly modified to grow galls, if that counts 00:57:44 literal wind 00:58:12 `quote 1017 00:58:14 No output. 00:58:19 nice 00:58:21 wat 00:58:33 `quote 1017 00:58:34 No output. 00:58:42 `quote 1016 00:58:43 1016) healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes 00:58:54 @quote kmc 00:58:54 kmc says: I enjoy it when people write "C/C++" on their resume as if it were one language... so "F#/FORTRAN/Forth", "Perl/Python/Pascal", "Ruby/REBOL/R" 00:58:56 wow the heck did you do 00:59:07 oerjan.................................. 00:59:10 `paste quotes 00:59:13 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes 00:59:21 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 00:59:29 `run tail -n 5 quotes 00:59:29 elliott: correction, actually. you own 16. you just smashed one :P 00:59:31 ​ in category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories \ It appears magenta in my computer only because it is programmed to display bold text as magenta. \ It's like narnia only with dicks \ My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell. \ healthy immune system is a wonderfu 00:59:36 wait why did i think that would work 00:59:39 `run tail -n 2 quotes 00:59:41 ​ My opinion is that you are all wrong, as far as I can tell. \ healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes 00:59:42 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486. 00:59:42 -!- oerjan has kicked Phantom_Hoover If you are going to delete quotes, do it in public. 00:59:58 help 00:59:58 `help 00:59:58 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 01:00:04 thx 01:00:27 oerjan: I take back every ellipsis. 01:00:29 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 01:00:37 Fiora: i'll smash this guitar like i'll smash your inefficient coding styles *bashes interviewer's head in* 01:00:44 shachaf: OKAY 01:01:02 Bike: you smash bugs and functions missing unit tests! 01:01:11 `quote 999 01:01:12 999) ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] Domain Name System [...] ♫ domain name system ♫ 01:01:18 `quote 1000 01:01:19 1000) `quote 1000 01:02:07 so.... am i a zebrafish or not 01:02:40 how's your swimming endurance? 01:02:47 oh gosh, from that haskell thread 01:02:49 "I get a high score in http://areyouabrogrammer.com - does that qualifyme for the above point? :D" 01:04:19 doesthiswork: one time i was completely underwater for five whole minutes! i was unconscious for most of it but still 01:04:44 `quote 1017 01:04:46 No output. 01:04:48 `revert 01:04:50 Done. 01:04:54 `quote 1017 01:04:55 1017) man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms through on your own time for fun 01:05:57 `run sed -i '1017s/$/ please provide at least two zebrafish you have modified to glow in the dark/' quotes 01:06:13 `run sed -i '1017s/$/ please provide at least two zebrafish you have modified to glow in the dark/' quotes 01:06:16 No output. 01:06:20 SUPER ED! 01:07:13 I tasted avocado 01:07:20 It was very messy on my hands :( 01:07:46 um you don't eat avocado with your hands 01:07:52 you eat it with your mouth 01:07:55 hth 01:08:53 sgeo..... 01:09:26 kmc: Why is it that sometimes I press up-arrow enter, and I get [A? 01:09:34 shouldn't mosh ""handle that"""" 01:10:20 `quote 1017 01:10:22 1017) man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms through on your own time for fun please provide at least two zebrafish you have modified to glow in the dark 01:10:32 excellent 01:10:42 excel lent 01:12:05 shachaf: is that when you have make do with a single column spreadsheet? 01:12:11 *+to 01:13:04 @quote kmc 01:13:04 kmc says: if you can't see ∈ might i suggest € 01:13:12 €xcellent 01:13:20 @quote kmc 01:13:20 kmc says: time to play "transfinite ordinal or asian emoticon" 01:13:39 @quote kmc 01:13:40 kmc says: $ ($) <$> 01:13:47 ? 01:13:47 @quote kmc 01:13:48 kmc says: > compare "trifecta" "parsec" —> GT 01:14:21 —> 01:14:58 wow 01:15:00 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:15:23 good quotes. 01:15:34 is there any reason -ever- to write that and not go all the way to → or ⇒ 01:15:44 this is pretty funny : "Thanks to the individual who discovered the SQL injection hole. Please contact us if you want to claim your prize" 01:15:51 monqy: those are "kinda small" 01:16:10 monqy: I can type — on my keyboard, but I can't type → on my keyboard. 01:16:25 So the answer to your question is yes. 01:16:28 @forget kmc > compare "trifecta" "parsec" —> GT 01:16:29 Done. 01:16:32 @remember kmc > compare "trifecta" "parsec" → GT 01:16:33 It is forever etched in my memory. 01:16:37 now people will think better of kmc 01:16:56 @quote kmc 01:16:57 kmc says: head [] = peek . intPtrToPtr . fromIntegral . unsafePerformIO . randomRIO $ (0, 2^32) 01:17:03 sure by DOCTORING THE HISTORICAL RECORD 01:17:21 @quote Warrigal 01:17:22 Warrigal says: Hey, the module loaded. I didn't expect that. 01:17:36 is tswett = Warrigal 01:17:41 Yes. 01:17:45 @quote tswett 01:17:46 No quotes match. You untyped fool! 01:17:49 who says good quotes, just kmc? 01:17:49 @quote uorygl 01:17:50 No quotes match. I am sorry. 01:17:52 ha, ha, untyped 01:17:53 @quote kerlo 01:17:53 kerlo says: It's pretty convenient that Parsec isn't bound by any rules. I use it in my gas tank; it works pretty well. 01:17:53 @quote kmc 01:17:54 kmc says: monads are like containers, as long as you forget everything you know about the meaning of the word "container" and take it to be a totally abstract word synonymous with "monad" 01:18:01 `run rm -rf tswett 01:18:02 No output. 01:18:14 I don't get that kerlo quote. 01:18:18 Someone ask kerlo what he meant by that. 01:18:30 jerkiL what did you meant by that 01:18:32 > compare "trifecta" "parsec" 01:18:32 @forget kmc head [] = peek . intPtrToPtr . fromIntegral . unsafePerformIO . randomRIO $ (0, 2^32) 01:18:32 Done. 01:18:33 GT 01:18:37 @remember kmc head [] = unsafePerformIO . peek . intPtrToPtr . fromIntegral . unsafePerformIO . randomRIO $ (0, 2^32) 01:18:38 Nice! 01:18:44 i am head of kmc's PR department 01:18:59 @quote kmc 01:19:00 kmc says: φ you lambdabot 01:19:09 elliott u r fabricating history 01:19:52 elliott!! !! 01:19:57 ….. 01:20:50 Should I go to the Berkeley ASCE GM? 01:20:55 yeah. 01:20:57 For some reason I'm invited? 01:21:07 maybe im secretly a civil engineer 01:21:20 amoral sex committee experience game master 01:21:24 the joke is that im not very civil 01:21:27 brought to you by berkeley 01:21:53 > compare "trifecta" "parsec" 01:21:55 GT 01:22:06 oh hm 01:22:32 STUPID REFERENTIAL TRANSPARENCY 01:22:54 @quote kmc 01:22:55 kmc says: most CS courses will teach you four kinds of Java 01:23:24 @quote kmc 01:23:25 kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 01:23:28 i wonder if all these fake quotes will be automatically in the next hwn 01:23:46 No, HWN is based on scanning #haskell logs 01:23:52 oh. 01:24:08 Lame. 01:24:11 wait do i believe that. 01:24:19 imo yes. 01:24:25 oh okay 01:24:26 imo listen to Bike 01:24:49 Bike, more like Trike 01:25:21 shachaf more like mircea eliade 01:25:38 oerjan: it's actually true 01:25:58 Bike more like hi monqy 01:26:00 (hi monqy) 01:26:00 very clever, elliott. i'm actually starting to believe it now. 01:26:14 hi shachaf 01:26:30 monqy: when are we going to get the next super mega comics update 01:26:37 soon i hope!!! 01:26:43 im getting withdrawal 01:26:47 yes 01:26:51 "we can see" 01:26:58 help 01:27:28 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:27:34 monqy: can i have a hug 01:27:45 -!- Regis__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:28:15 what sort of hug are we talking here 01:28:20 im not a "contact guy" 01:28:28 @hug 01:28:29 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 01:29:00 kmc: the 20th is the date when all the high school students and their parents will come to visit uc berkeley 01:29:12 my friend tells me there will be ""trouble"" 01:29:20 and make it double? 01:30:23 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:33:52 ???? 01:37:37 Maybe they make it even more than double this time. 01:37:55 Possible. 01:38:00 zzo38: did you know you're the best thing about #esoteric 01:39:35 shachaf: Well, it is kind of subjective, I guess, so maybe it is. 01:40:06 No, objectively. 01:40:16 Objectively, I am not sure. 01:41:58 Saying something doesn't (normally) make it true or false. 01:42:33 http://codepad.org/9oV2YO9k zzo38_ebooks 01:43:05 kmc: I would follow that account! 01:43:37 imo do it 01:44:03 zzo38: if I made a twitter bot that tweets things generated by a Markov chain trained on things you have said in #esoteric, how would you feel about that? 01:44:09 kmc are you like stalking zzo 01:44:22 kmc: I don't care whether you do it or not. 01:44:22 oh this is generated. 01:44:42 * No direct even cheese, you everything multiply thing words have invent thinking preferer or none or two separately improve* it (even in their ladders too. 01:45:04 i can generate about 3000 of these per second 01:45:06 But perhaps you should mention what it is (put a "spoiler" message if you want people to guess at first). 01:45:15 kmc: But they're not limited at 140 character, are they? 01:45:27 kmc: I don't cheater_: [Joke]]]]]]]]]]]] 01:45:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:46:28 kmc: If you like to, include stuff from my computer games and Dungeons&Dragons game too (conversion might be required; I have already converted the MZX games to plain text a while ago, though). 01:47:13 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:47:35 http://codepad.org/dCU2oBN0 some thoughts on the Famicom 01:47:54 Famicompetent? 01:47:56 "4#92L17+2L17,L26+2L38 3#96L12+2L36 #124L23 150L30 21L13 #35L15+D33 108L26 249L55 ENERGY { po }" looks a slightly mixed up listing of a Pokemon card deck. 01:48:24 > kmc: Well, yes. You can try at the different name out, Famicom music using diagram, and mpappend to be display the text, or I agree without powerful but OK than EBCDIC? 01:48:25 :1:10: parse error on input `,' 01:48:38 kmc: you might want to strip out names from this 01:48:38 I do like Famicom making on religion in "all" instead one 01:48:45 like just discard "foo:" from the beginning of the line for every foo 01:48:50 » A lot of monads a bytes and ever you have to bijective-C, too; if the human try, in ordinates than HTTP requiring, ignored immediate looked, NTSC Famicom exponents. 01:48:53 that's poetry 01:48:56 Use gopher, Rlogin, a few other the Famicompo Mini vol.9 see that advertically valid) 01:49:05 kmc: also your markov chain generator needs to balance various forms of brackets better 01:49:14 A lot of it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it is made up at random so I can see how. 01:49:54 » However using Famicom; imports 42 redpill | man is, than the slash? 01:49:58 "- { * } HP: 5 W: { # }" is also a part of a Pokemon card game 01:50:02 Then the damagine in difference -sr (equal to Y iff the moveToZone -> ObjMinor.Revision and the Famicom_noise,phase it doesn't 01:50:29 » Imakuni?'s cartridge. When though ASIC isn't it? Any fill as strings that checked output it might also compiled to pay though (Decompiler in modules? I was long; however, however, somethings, my idea: If not know what is a digraph in the Meta-Meta-Meta-Lamp in WEB or Pascal coording to themselves on semigroup is some in Curry-Howard of the DVI and the challenge idea. Even therefore 1989 something event at the way must the moon, ev 01:50:55 could just make a zzo38 model for fungot; reuse that enterprise code 01:50:56 elliott: and the next handler. there is not 01:50:58 in fact fungot can already tweet 01:50:58 elliott: i found it, chill. :) if you can, for instance 01:51:08 http://twitter.com/fungot 01:51:08 elliott: no mutta mä fnord. tack. " how stella got her car keys back". 01:51:34 » #!/bin/son!fuckyou.php" 01:51:38 About NetHack: coleridge. 01:51:40 why did fungot stop tweeting 01:51:40 monqy: spaces are ethereal, and for port-80 connections... well: just something like a woman 01:51:44 The Markov in fungot seems working a bit better, though, not combining two words incorrectly a lot. 01:53:38 languages used in generating this text: Perl, Python, sh, Haskell, C of course 01:53:43 a wonderful world we live in 01:53:53 C/C of course 01:54:48 what was the haskell for 01:54:52 » gopher://zzo38computer Modern before dead laws imports *many* other. 01:54:54 imo good motto 01:55:02 elliott: the generator program is detrospector 01:55:03 the one i wrote 01:55:14 what was the perl for, and also the python 01:55:24 perl for grepping out lines said by zzo 01:55:36 python for generating a curl command line to download all the esoteric logs 01:55:44 sh for running that curl command line 01:55:48 or wget, i forgot 01:55:50 w/e 01:55:56 isn't there an rsync for that job 01:56:03 ye there is 01:56:06 say !logs to see it 01:56:11 !logs 01:56:17 !LOGS 01:56:21 oh 01:56:22 shachaf...... 01:56:38 monqy: hey i don't watch window 1 01:56:47 you should!! 01:56:53 do i look like a person who watches window 1 2 u 01:57:01 hmmmm 01:57:24 btw i look like this: http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png 01:58:26 kmc can confirm i look like that 01:59:34 ah... 02:01:59 !logs 02:02:08 damn that's fancy 02:02:17 ye its p. fancy 02:02:20 !logs 02:02:21 !logs 02:02:28 mmmmmm 02:04:01 get a room. a room far away from me. 02:06:05 kmc: Did you want to include the MegaZeux games and Dungeons&Dragons recordings too? This is what I have suggested way before this. 02:06:28 i think not for now 02:06:28 thanks 02:24:43 `slist 02:24:45 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:25:45 can I even do this? 02:26:12 no. 02:26:20 good to know 02:26:22 nope, this doesn't work 02:27:01 does that message everyone separately or just display it in the channel? 02:27:13 Displays in the channel. 02:27:23 Now THIS displays differently. 02:27:32 Thanks, Sgeo. 02:27:50 OH SHIT IT'S A SPOOKY GHOST 02:27:51 Oh, and I think some clients interpret it as a ping 02:28:14 Which is dumb but hey 02:29:05 sgheost 02:29:09 notices don't show up in the channel log 02:29:11 If a tablet is like 2.75 bitcoins... then shit, bitcoins are pricey. 02:29:27 one day bitcoins will be over $9,000 02:29:59 kmc: you saw that bitcoin stalky paper fiora linked, right 02:31:32 Bike, linky? 02:32:08 uh 02:32:11 let's say it's http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf this one 02:33:25 cool 02:34:06 the S from RSA, apparently 02:34:49 90,000 bitcoins on one day, what 02:35:16 that's "just" ~$13.5M 02:35:52 heh heh, bitcoins 02:36:16 more like dumbcoins 02:36:49 i need bitcoins to crash soon so i can stop kicking myself for not getting a bunch before they became worth like $160 a piece 02:37:00 and start laughing at all the people who didn't cash out instead 02:37:12 you're a sad man, elliott 02:37:26 In addition, we isolated all the large 02:37:26 transactions in the system, and discovered that almost all of them are 02:37:26 closely related to a single large transaction that took place in November 02:37:26 2010, even though the associated users apparently tried to hide this fact 02:37:26 with many strange looking long chains and fork-merge structures in the 02:37:28 transaction graph. 02:37:31 oh this is going to be interesting 02:37:45 i assume someone bought the maldives 02:38:16 why did they download the log in html form rather than whatever form the actual client uses 02:38:20 imo this is silly 02:39:52 elliott: what's your expected value if you invest in /every/ cypherpunk libertard scheme, tho 02:40:30 what if you invested $1 in bitcoins when they cost ~¢0 each 02:40:35 then you would have ~all of them 02:41:12 hm. what if the 90k transaction is the pizza one 02:41:32 can i have pizza 02:41:40 do you have 90 thousand bitcoins? 02:41:47 kmc: well bitcoins were sort of kind of stable and worth ok amounts of money a while ago, i could have invested some of the money i don't even use at all then... but it's pointless to dwell on 02:46:34 I guess if these were actual savings accounts there'd be small transactions out for loans and stuff. 02:50:26 http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNS.ICTR.ZS 03:18:17 "Those silly bitcoin users, someday their system will fall to bits and we will all laugh at them" 03:29:48 I didn't invest because I didn't investigate how good an idea that would be. 03:31:26 I am making a Z-machine assembler. There are already a few, such as ZAPF which only supports version 3 to 8 and is written in C#, and ZAP which is no longer available, and Inform which has an assembler has part of its code but also has various limits. The one I am making supports version 1 to 9, and also has macros. 03:31:48 Sgeo: oh 90,000 bitcoins in november 2010 03:31:50 was not that much 03:31:57 i think it was less than $90k even 03:32:12 here we use "a lot" in the financial sense of "astronomical" 03:32:20 but i think it might have been like $9k or something 03:33:39 Can you even answer some of the strange questions that kmc's program made up recently? 03:35:16 Even some new words are made up by combining other words. 03:38:58 is Mon the category of monoids? 03:39:29 yes 03:39:49 is there any particular reason names of categories are denoted with capitalized three-letter words 03:40:50 Maybe to abbreviate them when using them within other mathematical formulas? 03:41:01 i would like you to point you to the rest of mathematical notation 03:41:08 this should answer any questions about why any particular part of it is weird 03:41:17 i'm not saying it's uniquely terrible, just that it's terrible 03:42:20 yeah i have no hope of understanding this. oh well. 03:42:54 i think i'm going to join a monastery instead of all this mathy crap. 03:43:23 i don't think it's terrible 03:43:25 btw what are you reading 03:43:44 the Kernel spec again 03:43:56 that throwaway comment in the definition of map 03:45:03 For readers with a passing familiarity with category theory, it may be of interest to 03:45:06 note that auxiliary applicative acc is approximately the counit of the usual adjunction 03:45:09 from Set to Mon — of which map is, approximately, the unit. 03:45:21 ah 03:45:54 i'm glad that makes 4sense to me 03:45:56 *¾ 03:46:24 do you have a "passing familiarity" with category theory 03:47:12 one could call it that 03:47:29 john shutt's kernel? 03:47:58 yeah. 03:48:01 (is there another one) 03:48:39 there a lot of things named kernel, that just happens to be my favorite 03:48:45 (right) 03:48:55 (i mean, how many have specs, though) 03:49:16 i forgot how much the cyclic list thing made everything super fucking weird 03:49:37 oh no are people talking about categories 03:49:47 scrollback thyme!!!!!!!! 03:49:48 nope get with the times it's all popcorn now 03:50:37 I don't quite understand how fexprs have nontrivial equational theory 03:50:40 What's the counit of the adjunction? 03:50:44 Why is map the unit? 03:51:02 doesthiswork: maybe you could read his nine trillion page thesis on that 03:51:07 I did 03:51:17 I forgot it all 03:51:24 my brother 03:51:38 perhaps bonghits will fix your understanding of the equational theory of fexprs 03:51:49 let's see maybe i'll just paste the definition of acc. yeah i'll do that. 03:51:57 Sometimes numbers are used to mean the ordered thin categories of that many elements, but I prefer to have them mean the discrete categories of that number of elements, which is more logical and more consistent with all other mathematical notation, and also means that 2+3=5 and so on still holds. 03:52:07 psate the definition of map 03:53:05 ($define! acc ($lambda (input (k1 k2) base-result head tail sum) ($define! aux ($lambda (input count) ($if (=? count 0) base-result (sum (head input) (aux (tail input) (- count 1)))))) (aux input (+ k1 k2)))) 03:53:07 i don't really know anything about the theory of fexprs :'( 03:53:10 hth, sarcasm etcc. 03:53:12 they are just fun to program with 03:53:49 are counits usually six-argument functions i bet they are. 03:54:16 uh 03:54:26 they're natural transformations hth 03:54:45 (They're one-argument functions. Is there any other kind of function?) 03:55:31 I guess all those arguments could represent a functor. 03:56:01 Do you know if shift-locks are used when encoding text to search in the dictionary in Z-machine? 03:56:12 Nope. 03:57:29 I will assume it isn't, since that is the simpler case. 03:58:46 Is there any variant of Lisp where [a b c;x y z] is just another syntax for ((a b c) (x y z)) ? 04:00:12 SO you say F -| U : Mon -> Set, right? 04:00:15 s/O/o/ 04:00:22 And the counit is : FU -> 1? 04:01:06 Is that foldMap? 04:01:12 Er, just fold? 04:02:02 Bike? 04:02:21 shachaf: Set isn't really like that, though? 04:02:27 Set? 04:02:30 Set. 04:02:33 it's probably treating sets as monoids or something 04:02:42 where mempty = {} and mappend = union or such 04:02:42 This is "extract" in a Mon comonad. 04:02:49 oh hm 04:02:55 never mind 04:03:32 You take some monoid (S,*_S,1_S), forget everything except the set, and then go back to Mon with ([S],(++),[]) 04:03:45 And then you have a monoid homomorphism : [S] -> S 04:03:49 That looks like fold to me. 04:04:13 (Unless I'm making things up?) 04:04:14 yeah 04:04:37 So presumably Bike means that acc is a fold, or something? 04:05:25 * shachaf can't tell if that was "yeah you're making things up" 04:05:53 yeah that's what expect FU : Mon -> Mon to do 04:05:58 *what i 04:06:45 er 04:06:48 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:07:16 counit : FU -> 1 04:09:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:12:24 oh boy is shachaf asking about adjunctions again 04:13:32 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:13:34 But yeah acc is a fold, probably. 04:14:03 acc looks like sum, maybe. 04:14:09 I don't know why it has all those inputs 04:14:20 monqy: Bike started it........................... 04:14:32 because it's Generalized 04:14:39 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:14:40 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 04:16:17 if you have sum = fn, head = car, tail = cdr then it's pretty much boring fold fn i guess 04:16:32 the county stuff is because cyclic lists are fucked. 04:17:48 submit to haskell, Bike 04:18:34 does haskell have enough fexprs to make compilation impossible? i don't think so 04:19:03 why is my connection fucked. am i even here. where am i 04:19:14 hi 04:19:18 hi monqy 04:19:20 WHO ARE YOU 04:19:21 `welcome monqy 04:19:22 shachaf: ??? 04:19:23 monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:19:25 shachaf: ??? 04:21:06 i guess plenty of kernel is kind of dumb pattern matching 04:32:33 kmc: do you think it would be far off for me to say most uses of fexprs amount to macros? 04:33:15 you cant pass a macro to a function 04:33:58 in a lazy language I think you can get by with just macros 04:34:20 If you're passing a fexpr to something expecting a function you've probably made a weird to debug mistake. 04:34:52 sometime I want to map 'if' across a sequence 04:35:16 "if" takes three forms.. 04:35:38 ok I want to map it across 3 sequences 04:35:49 I've actually never seen that before, could you show me? 04:36:04 what do you mean by map across 3 sequences 04:36:15 Anyway, I just mean the fexprs defined as ($vau whatever env (eval ...something... env)). They're certainly common in the standard library. 04:36:51 monqy: (map if seq1 seq2 eq3) 04:37:02 is that zipWith3 04:37:08 I think so 04:37:12 :t zipWith3 04:37:14 (a -> b -> c -> d) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] -> [d] 04:37:18 Yeah. 04:37:27 Bike: whoa don't jump to conclusions! 04:37:29 :t liftA3 04:37:31 Applicative f => (a -> b -> c -> d) -> f a -> f b -> f c -> f d 04:37:36 Yeah whatever. 04:37:37 same sig but way different 04:37:48 doesthiswork: kernel's 'map' takes an applicative. 04:38:01 damn 04:38:08 Which makes sense, of course. 04:38:23 I'll go check why 04:38:28 You could map (wrap $if), though. 04:38:44 Which is like (lambda (a b c) (if a b c)) if you don't have first-class operatives. 04:39:14 doesthiswork: you're actually going to want to look at the rationale for 'apply'. 04:40:02 I thought that in most languages map didn't evaluate the arguments it fed to the function 04:40:57 Not /again/. 04:41:09 again? 04:41:14 again. 04:41:27 They're already evaluated as part of normal evaluation. 04:41:36 http://codepad.org/t29NgA3I topics 04:41:39 yes 04:41:49 I thought you meant the topic 04:42:11 Welcome to ESME. 04:42:23 Behold! The encephalopathies, human colors! | Best tryin' to Haskell america 04:42:56 » Behold! The encephalopathies, human colors! | Best tryin' to Haskell america | "Function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | Gregor: Do you eat. | This channel: itidus21 (ex cat trendy subversion of soline here | Necessingly one here x is importage cathedra), Gregor's uteric-mine her. If your #matrix of end of supervision overlords 04:43:01 yes 04:43:10 Gregor: Do you eat. 04:43:20 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:43:46 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:48 that would be a very long channel topic 04:43:50 NOW WITH EDIT WARNED: There! | Feynman's Trivial! 04:44:14 waking spam blackout run infatuated | God made that this time fruits 04:44:14 Breedom is what's the ence somebody new scoring! | Well, hardly knew PHP 04:44:22 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 04:44:25 Don't topic :( | Now open fold gum | anyway? 04:44:25 The good is what now | anyway? 04:44:29 i thing channel | manifold of thus volting on Freenode. You can never sciently log. 04:44:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:44:44 Good is the programming the in oerjan 04:44:57 Tropics. Anemoment of weapons for Joe Chinese creative" Centions of trainfuck Derivative" Centipede | Glorious optator in air) STARS STARS | This is replace to combustional problem) in Channel of an esoil and on irc: the really agreed to Use is supposed on 3.10.2011: http://esoteric/?C=M;O=D 04:45:10 Now failings and design and esoterical | Get you know what it is atrix of Truth 04:45:12 elliott is sufficial channel loony realized in generate-bays-lawsuit-again the new PHP 04:45:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:45:17 kmc: so do you have an opinion on the thing or should i assume you've been replaced by one of zzo38's world takeover drones 04:45:26 The IOCCC is frowned upon, the requent @ Hel/Finland the bfjoust plasma 04:45:28 Good hips. 04:45:28 which thing 04:45:41 kmc: do you think it would be far off for me to say most uses of fexprs amount to macros? 04:46:10 The IOCCC is time for the fire by greate grating family! | Glorious topic 04:46:12 i don't know 04:46:20 if they're macros, they're a nicer way of writing macros which is hygenic and yet direct 04:46:22 This channel of esolidity and on 3.10.2011: http://5z8.inforce ceiling family! | Of all rule #2: Ignore alternating | Enjoy being attentipede | Gregor (ex cathere welcoming and esoteric/?C=M;O=D 04:46:22 Boring but honest. 04:46:26 BEWARE THE ERRØNEØUS MØØSE | Esoteric; it is obsessed to be femtobarn story of mass banniversion on a couple being in THX deep remote computed ZARDOZ | Channel on the matrix of N>=1 IOCCC is just a removed servers!” he work of Americ program for the sewers! 04:46:32 of course i haven't done more than a little toy programming with fexprs 04:46:37 it might all fall apart horribly at scale 04:46:49 this channel of soline here welcoming langs.org/~nef/logs/esolanguage 04:46:54 i am proud to not even know what fexprs are 04:47:01 PROUD OF IGNORANCE 04:47:03 Poison | IGMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwogYy5jCg== 04:47:09 CAUTIONS DREAM OF THE PERIPHERY SHIELD OF COMRADE GLOGBOT 04:47:12 #esoterica | 12345678 04:47:13 kmc: I'm thinking of the ones that are just ($vau ... env (eval ...code... env)), which are equivalent to macros in that you could just dump the code in as a combination for optimization (discounting redefinitions) 04:47:23 i thing channel | manifold of thus volting on Freenode. You can never sciently log. 04:47:27 hi | http://tinyurl.com/ 04:47:29 IGMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwpjLmMuYwogYy5jCg== is a bigger multiocular c.c than the last one... 04:47:40 kmc: i thing channel | manifold of thus volting on Freenode. You can never sciently log. 04:47:45 help 04:47:50 shachaf: so tall 04:47:50 this clearly means we need a new set of topics 04:48:01 #esoteric is ALMOST TERRING AND OR MORE SO TOTALLEST 04:48:01 Nothing here 04:48:15 oonbotti, you're my favorite bot. 04:48:15 Bike: Are we talking about you, or me? 04:48:24 Welcome our logs) 04:48:37 oonbotti, don't give me that eliza bullshit. I'll rogerian you up your ass. 04:48:37 Bike: Why do you say that don't give you that eliza bullshit. you will rogerian me up my ass.? 04:49:14 i'm naming my next band Nicolaas Goverlords 04:49:25 wow me too 04:49:44 is it the same band 04:49:52 i would twitterfollow a kmc-monqy band 04:50:01 wow me too 04:50:18 TOPIC. 04:50:49 I'm short is NOT APPROACHING SELF-CONSISTENT 04:50:55 good topics 04:51:01 imo we never need to handwrite a topic again 04:51:11 @topic-cons "hi" 04:51:11 I do not know the channel "hi" 04:51:12 hi | http://tinyurl.com/ 04:51:20 @topic-cons #esoteric "hi" 04:51:21 Topic does not parse. Should be of the form ["...",...,"..."] 04:51:36 Jesus fuck, lambdabot. 04:51:37 lambdabot............................. 04:51:45 @list topic 04:51:45 topic provides: topic-tell topic-cons topic-snoc topic-tail topic-init topic-null 04:51:56 @topic-null 04:51:57 Plugin `topic' failed with: Prelude.last: empty list 04:51:59 wow 04:52:03 does lambdabot really maintain the #haskell topic 04:52:03 That's amazing. 04:52:09 -!- shachaf has set topic: []. 04:52:14 -!- shachaf has set topic: At or in this place: Stop here for a rest | Wire mesh Supply与您共享了相册。| roäld.dahl.net | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 04:52:19 @topic-null #esoteric 04:52:19 -!- lambdabot has set topic: []. 04:52:26 :o 04:52:29 @topic-const http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 04:52:29 I do not know the channel http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 04:52:33 @topic-cons #esoteric http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 04:52:33 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/"]. 04:52:38 haha wow 04:52:41 This is a good system. 04:52:49 can only lambdabot admins use it, or 04:52:53 @topic-snoc #esoteric hi 04:52:54 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi"]. 04:52:54 can anyone append to the #haskell topic 04:52:56 Does it like... does it seriously just read the topic 04:53:03 @topic-cons #esoteric hi 04:53:03 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi"]. 04:53:05 @topic-tell #esoteric 04:53:05 ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi"] 04:53:11 elliott: well lambdabot isn't an op.............. 04:53:11 it probably tracks it 04:53:17 shachaf: I can fix that 04:53:20 No, it reads the topic. 04:53:27 As in the function read 04:53:27 Good system? Good syste. 04:53:30 ::[String] 04:53:32 Yesssss. 04:53:37 Enjoy bearer of experiencephalopathies, but is nor Finland no for more the joke lates the rage is time for that in you will will be in the enchannel 04:53:53 if i put a ☺ in the topic will lambdabot choke 04:54:03 @topic-snoc #esoteric ☺ 04:54:04 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186"]. 04:54:07 yesssss 04:54:07 good topic 04:54:10 wait is snoc a thing 04:54:12 :t snoc 04:54:14 Snoc Control.Lens.Internal.Review.Reviewed Identity s s a a => s -> a -> s 04:54:18 wow yes 04:54:21 Bike what have you done 04:54:21 -!- monqy has set topic: ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","☺"]. 04:54:22 no 04:54:28 @topic-tell #esoteric 04:54:28 ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","☺"] 04:54:31 :o 04:54:37 I can't stop laughing 04:54:38 "BEWARE THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. TOPIC." 04:54:40 @topic-snoc #esoteric bike 04:54:41 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike"]. 04:54:41 @topic-snoc #esoteric norway 04:54:42 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway"]. 04:54:46 oh 04:54:49 RIP 04:54:58 i'm going to die 04:55:12 OK. OK. I'm OK now. 04:55:28 i preferred it when you were ding 04:55:29 dying 04:55:33 I can generate about 3,500 of these per second 04:55:46 is that the best you can do 04:55:49 02:45:03 i can generate about 3000 of these per second 04:55:53 how did you get the 500 extra 04:55:57 elliott: That was only a period of a few seconds. It must be sad for you, now that your entire life is a downward spiral after those moments. 04:56:00 is it "even paralleliszed" 04:56:10 Bike: Did you die for a few seconds? 04:56:17 Bike "the next jesus" 04:56:17 No I was dying for a few seconds duh. 04:56:21 elliott: uh I think it's because the zzo-chain used a 5-character window and the topic-chain uses a 4-character window 04:56:32 Bi "Jesus "H." Christ" ke 04:57:09 hey i was reading a book that had jesus in it.. 04:57:18 Master and Margarita? 04:57:21 was it the bible 04:57:48 Bike wins 04:57:50 M&M is the best book with jesus in it after Revelations, imo 04:57:55 elliott gets no points 04:58:05 Oh, really? Good choice. 04:58:25 it also had the devil 04:58:26 in the time it takes light to travel from Hexham to Finland, I can generate almost 20 new topics for #esoteric 04:58:29 isn't it Revelation, Bike... 04:58:46 black holes and revelations 04:58:50 elliott: each one of them is a book of Revelation 04:58:57 together they're books of Revelations 04:59:00 plz use logic next time 04:59:08 kmc: not their best 04:59:15 Helsingfors-Vanda flygplats 04:59:18 books of a revelation each 04:59:20 flygplats 04:59:22 anyway the new testament isn't part of the bible?? 04:59:28 p. sure i learned that in school 04:59:45 i didnt have bible education in school 05:00:01 i had bible class 05:00:05 amazing 05:00:07 starting in first grade?? or was it second 05:01:16 in Israel? 05:01:19 Yes. 05:01:33 Woland is pretty good too, yeah. 05:01:36 Bike: is M&M a jesus book or more of a yeshua book 05:01:51 bike: so i thought wrap turned and fexpr into an eager function but he says that (eval (cons c t) e) is equivalent to (apply (wrap c) t e) 05:02:01 well it's neither 05:02:01 *an not and 05:02:06 doesthiswork: eager/lazy isn't really the distinction here. 05:02:14 shachaf: Jesus. 05:02:17 Do you actually learn Bible in Bible education, or do they teach you other things? 05:02:28 You learn a lot of hermeneutics, probably. 05:02:48 Church officials HATE this 1 old secret book of the Bible that the Pope doesn't want you to know about! 05:02:58 bike I know that fexprs aren't lazy functions, but I thought his applicatives were eager ones 05:03:23 Well they sort of are. 05:03:29 You can wrap things more than once, though. 05:03:57 its amazing how much a markov chain can brighten my day 05:04:10 ((wrap (wrap identity)) (list list 4 + 5)) => 9, probably, maybe not. 05:04:12 kmc: What book? Do you mean current pope, or the other one? 05:04:19 the markov the beast 05:04:40 Bike, wrapping masta b 05:05:00 You know what's crap? Dubstep remixes of anime theme songs. 05:05:16 really? because i would have guessed those are the pinnacle of human achievement 05:05:26 I'm just saying. 05:06:35 Bike: Which translation of M&M should I read? 05:06:43 Or should I learn Russian and then read the identity translation? 05:06:56 ignoring the existence of unwrap, is (wrap or) equivilant to (lambda (a b) (or (eval a e) (eval b e))) (where e is the calling environment) ? 05:07:06 so or no longer shortcuts 05:07:30 i honestly don't know why kernel separates applicatives and stuff 05:07:35 shachaf: My copy is Mirra Ginsburg. 05:07:42 it's harder to write apply if you don't 05:07:51 Maybe I should read a Hebrew translation. 05:07:58 Would that be better or worse than an English one? 05:08:04 kmc: but then he makes apply only take applicatives 05:08:06 doesthiswork: no 05:08:10 ok 05:08:26 It's equivalent to (lambda (a b) (or a b)). 05:08:33 doesthiswork: it's not really defined for non-applicatives 05:09:03 shachaf: Note that I'm a pleb and know shit about quality prose and stuff, though. 05:09:03 in my thingy we define apply in library code, but if you apply apply to a non-applicative then it sees some arbitrary crap from the implementation of apply 05:09:11 Aren't we all? 05:09:11 that also happens if you try to map a non-applicative or something 05:09:12 bike: woops I went redundant there 05:09:20 Bike: what are other books to read 05:09:27 kmc: the original fexpr problem. sweet 05:09:47 shachaf: my favorite novel is probably Middlemarch. Unfortunately it's very British. 05:09:51 The Bible is simply another book, which is made up from the collection of other books. 05:10:01 The Bible, book 1: The Bible 05:10:18 bible ∈ bible ∈ bible ∈ … 05:10:29 MY religious text is well-founded, SIR 05:10:37 bible € bible € bible € ⋮ 05:10:54 BIB£€ 05:11:00 shachaf: I also like "anything by Calvino", that was a pretty good book. 05:11:21 i should train a markov chain on x86 machine code 05:11:31 Bike: Your religious text is well-founded? Please be more specific, such as what text you mean. 05:11:58 zzo38: It was a joke about non-well-founded set theories, like kmc implied. 05:12:28 Bike: I know that, but I still wanted to know if you meant some specific text. 05:12:37 Nope. 05:13:15 it was an implicitly quantified free variable or something 05:13:46 @quote skolem 05:13:47 chrisdone says: anyone got a fixed version of the split library for ghc7? some Tolkienesque error messages about skolems escaping 05:14:14 kmc: shutt gives a definition for non-applicative but then decides that we don't need it 05:14:26 for apply? 05:14:33 That's because it's just (eval (cons op args) env). 05:14:37 @quote skolem 05:14:37 chrisdone says: anyone got a fixed version of the split library for ghc7? some Tolkienesque error messages about skolems escaping 05:14:39 @quote skolem 05:14:39 @quote skolem 05:14:39 byorgey says: Escaped skolem! Authorities mount massive search. News at 11. 05:14:40 byorgey says: Escaped skolem! Authorities mount massive search. News at 11. 05:14:43 I think it would be kind of nice but it's easy to see how it's trivial. 05:14:47 lambdabot ........... 05:14:48 lambdabot ........... 05:14:49 amber alert 05:14:50 er 05:14:51 @quote skolem 05:14:52 byorgey says: Escaped skolem! Authorities mount massive search. News at 11. 05:14:56 USELESS BOT 05:15:00 help 05:15:07 ok but that 'apply' does something different from the other one 05:15:26 what does it do differently? 05:15:26 How about a language where programs resemble code in some other language, but actually do something totally different? 05:15:56 That's every language. 05:16:05 hm, I think it does... 05:16:21 Maybe "if (x) {foo}" evaluates "foo" and sets the variable "x" to the result or something like that. 05:16:28 just from the semantics of apply on applicatives, you have no idea what (apply quote (list 1)) should be 05:18:12 Freudian mouth-cent | Get you know conclusion overlords | Enjoy being spam for DIPERT 05:18:32 lambdabot cool." -- John McCain 05:18:59 ah I see now 05:21:39 apply evaluates the argument for the applicative 05:22:35 yeah 05:23:05 that's why my attempt to write apply without unwrap ends up using quote 05:23:48 (define apply (wrap (vau (operative args) env (eval env (cons operative (map (lambda (x) (list quote x)) args)))))) 05:23:53 which is near the bottom of http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/04/scheme-without-special-forms.html 05:24:03 there's probably a more elegant way, that's a kinda long and ugly definition 05:24:19 man i can't think of quote without thinking of oleg's definition. wtf. 05:26:19 what is oleg's 05:27:01 how about $apply? 05:27:35 There must be some group theoretic thing you could build an esolang out of or something... 05:29:42 kmc: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/quote-as-macro.txt 05:30:32 on a related note what is this define-macro thing oleg uses, it looks suspiciously totally not like syntax-rules 05:31:05 Ooh, I've got it. An esoteric programming language based on order books and control systems. 05:32:39 The program consists entirely of an unordered collection of "when" blocks. Each block is conditional upon the last trade price of some symbol. 05:33:23 Of course this quote lacks any coalescence or constancy stuff... I don't know if scheme even has that. 05:34:47 All instructions are of the form ( "BUY" | "SELL" ) number symbol ( "MARKET" | "LIMIT" number). 05:45:13 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 05:46:37 kmc: I see you have operate 05:48:06 doesthiswork: no, this doesn't work 05:49:27 ThatOtherPerson: what would be wrong with haveing operate? 05:50:06 he's just punning on your name. 05:50:22 or well, not punning. i don't know. some kind of unconditioned autonomous reponse 05:50:24 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:51:33 doesthiswork: Have you seen maru? 05:51:36 on another irc thingy I go by the name 'hi', every so often I get messages from people that are still figuring out how to post to a channel 05:52:15 `seen maru 05:52:21 not lately; try `seen maru ever 05:52:26 Uh. No, it's a lisp. 05:52:38 I thought maru was a cat 05:52:44 hi hi 05:52:47 Hiora 05:52:48 The lisp is named after the cat. It's all very civil. 05:52:48 Hike 05:52:52 Hachaf! 05:53:10 more like hahahachaf am i right 05:53:39 the joke is that im making a joke 05:53:42 help 05:54:15 um, hi 05:54:26 got any good second-hand puns 05:54:47 not really, I'm kind of just coming out of a migraine, migraines are not conducive to good puns 05:54:53 aw. 05:55:32 what is notable about maru other than bootstrapyness? 05:55:45 Eval and apply are generic functions. 05:55:52 nifty 05:55:54 Or... whatever you want to call things you can define multimethods on. 05:56:10 I think if you replaced apply with operate and made it all kernely you could do something kinda cool. 05:56:21 I haven't tried yet. I forget why. 05:57:04 because lisp = poo 05:57:11 oh snap 05:58:34 lisp more like "bad language"isp 05:58:46 "bl"isp 05:58:47 the joke is that lisp isn't haskell 05:58:57 "bl"askell 05:59:24 As you can see, Fiora, the channel's sense of humor is rather down the drain without puns. 05:59:50 thanks elliot 05:59:56 th'elliott 06:00:03 "bl"ike 06:00:12 the joke is i wouldn't want to program in you 06:01:11 That's OK. 06:01:25 "bl"achaf 06:01:31 the joke is i don't speak finnish 06:01:50 does finnish have a b? 06:01:57 no 06:03:01 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Markont 06:03:11 What a beiuetuifiul language I just created. 06:03:26 indeed 06:03:53 I think later, I'm going to add more features to it. 06:04:08 Like accounts and balances. 06:04:39 And order cancellation. 06:05:07 And corporations and dividends. 06:05:48 What about a stock market? 06:06:05 Of course. You can't have corporations and markets without having a stock market. 06:06:15 Right 06:06:59 Will you be able to choose between a capitalist or a communist government? 06:08:59 Mm... possibly. 06:09:16 imo market socialism 06:11:06 hth 06:12:48 imo Bike 06:24:33 imo mutualism 06:24:38 (i know almost nothing about mutualism) 06:24:46 imo hugs 06:26:26 hugs! 06:26:27 yay, hugs. 06:26:40 hugs! 06:26:50 * Fiora hugs Bike 06:26:55 * Bike hugs back 06:27:35 Hugs are nice. 06:29:04 * ThatOtherPerson hugs everyone in the channel 06:29:11 they're... pretty wonderful 06:29:18 ... this is going to take a while 06:41:36 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:47:39 hugging just bike is easier 06:48:23 it's nice to know your place in the lattice 06:48:27 Fiora's had to train a lot to be able to hug a bike effectively, tho. 06:49:52 I think I'm finally done 06:52:53 I did not :< 06:53:01 bike is very huggable 06:53:32 I thought bikes were sort of hard and awkwardly shaped. 06:53:59 Thus training. 06:54:00 Laterally stiff and vertically compliant. 06:55:02 t-that's not what I meant! 06:56:31 Hugs are made of Haskell, or so I understand. 06:58:05 Quick! Hug me so I learn Haskell! 06:59:21 hugs user's gofer system 06:59:59 * Fiora hugs ThatOtherPerson ? 07:00:15 * ThatOtherPerson hugs Fiora 07:00:24 the haskell must spread 07:00:30 I thought hugs were made of warm, soft arms though 07:00:36 warm, soft haskell 07:00:39 ? 07:00:43 Arms? What are arms? 07:01:32 Is ARMS a programming language? 07:01:46 they're um. thin warm fleshy skin-covered things that I have two of 07:01:49 they have hands at the ends 07:02:02 sounds like a haskell 07:03:16 Those sound more like tentacles. Are you sure you don't have two hand-tentacles instea? 07:03:19 Huh, that sounds strange. What are they used for? 07:03:55 um. I can hug people with them? 07:03:59 and type on keyboards 07:04:01 oh boy here's Fiora talking about NEON2 as always 07:04:28 Oh, you don't live on the Internet, do you? 07:05:11 I'm starting to get the feeling that some of the people here are not bots 07:05:32 I've never met a bot with these "arms" you talk about 07:07:08 ??? @_@ 07:07:28 oh shachaf is making an ARM pun -_- 07:08:07 ThatOtherPerson: unfortunately I am a poor ordinary human with a small fleshy human body 07:08:49 --------- 07:08:50 | (# #) | 07:08:50 | _ | 07:08:50 +-------+ 07:08:51 fungot: Have YOU got any ARMS in you? 07:08:51 fizzie: ( they're called structures in t, but that 07:09:00 Oh, so that's yet another term for them. 07:09:22 Arms, hand-tentacles, thin-fleshy-skinny-things, "structures in t". 07:09:48 * ThatOtherPerson hugs Fiora again, this time trying to do so with "arms" 07:14:54 * Fiora likes this fleshy body though 07:15:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:15:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:16:26 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:17:01 except your migraine-racked brain, evidently 07:18:24 those only happen like once every month or two :< 07:18:45 they're just a minor design flaw, that's all 07:19:04 there's a lot of things higher up on the issue tracker before that one! 07:19:11 I get kernel panics every once in a while, and they hurt A LOT 07:26:25 And don't get me started on segfaults -_- 07:26:53 * FireFly guesses that's an intentional reference to http://xkcd.com/371/ 07:29:08 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:32:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:33:22 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:41:13 -!- nooga has joined. 07:44:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:48:38 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:49:42 -!- impomatic has left. 07:51:20 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:52:35 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:17:26 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:17:51 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:28:01 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:34:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:36:17 -!- carado has joined. 08:46:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:19:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:45:41 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:47:37 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:29:36 `slist 10:29:40 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 10:40:36 huh, how did lambdabot set the topic 10:40:39 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:14:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:33:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:34:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:43:30 Error: Impossible to unify "sup (fun n : nat => f n)" with "sup (fun n : nat => f n)". 11:52:02 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:11:15 -!- boily has joined. 12:15:45 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 12:28:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:35:32 -!- Jafet has joined. 12:40:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:47:07 -!- carado has joined. 13:09:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:21:01 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:14:07 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 14:18:44 -!- joop has joined. 14:37:43 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:43:51 -!- joop has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:47:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:49:12 I hate telecom abbreviations I hate telecom abbreviations good morning all I hate telecom abbreviations. 14:53:14 `addquote I hate telecom abbreviations I hate telecom abbreviations good morning all I hate telecom abbreviations. 14:53:19 1018) I hate telecom abbreviations I hate telecom abbreviations good morning all I hate telecom abbreviations. 14:53:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:57:27 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:01:42 -!- Bike has joined. 15:26:20 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:27:23 -!- oonbotti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:27:53 -!- oonbotti has joined. 15:31:33 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:34:18 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:43:54 "In category theory we habitually dualize all definitions." 15:44:02 "In this case we get (final) 15:44:03 co-algebras. Luckily, this concept is equally meaningful." 15:44:06 lucky 15:44:37 Category theory is all about conatural cotransformations 15:44:49 -!- monqy has joined. 15:48:29 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:48:58 -!- oonbotti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:49:14 -!- oonbotti has joined. 15:50:43 -!- oonbotti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:51:03 -!- oonbotti has joined. 15:56:40 I'm still trying to understant what adjoint functors are, and what they are for. 16:02:59 -!- Gregor has set topic: {"id": "#esoteric", "topic-format-restriction": "text/json", "addtl": ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway"]}. 16:04:35 I don't think \2 is a valid escape string in JSON 16:07:15 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:14:16 isn't that an octal escape? 16:14:26 but maybe those aren't valid in JSON either 16:14:37 They aren't. 16:14:48 they are in JavaScript though 16:14:51 -!- conehead has joined. 16:14:57 Gregor: no 16:15:00 lambdabot controls the topic now 16:15:02 @topic-snoc Gregor 16:15:03 I do not know the channel Gregor 16:15:06 @topic-snoc #esoteric Gregor 16:15:06 Topic does not parse. Should be of the form ["...",...,"..."] 16:15:18 @topic-snoc #esoteric "Gregor" 16:15:18 Topic does not parse. Should be of the form ["...",...,"..."] 16:15:20 oh 16:15:23 @topic-tell #esoteric 16:15:24 {"id": "#esoteric", "topic-format-restriction": "text/json", "addtl": ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway"]} 16:15:29 @help @topic 16:15:29 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 16:15:30 @help topic 16:15:31 topic provides: topic-tell topic-cons topic-snoc topic-tail topic-init topic-null 16:15:45 -!- elliott has set topic: ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway"]. 16:15:48 @topic-snoc Gregor 16:15:48 I do not know the channel Gregor 16:15:51 @topic-snoc #esoteric Gregor 16:15:51 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["hi","http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway","Gregor"]. 16:15:57 see. 16:16:00 @topic-tail 16:16:01 Plugin `topic' failed with: Prelude.last: empty list 16:16:03 @topic-tail #esoteric 16:16:04 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway","Gregor"]. 16:16:10 @topic-init #esoteric 16:16:10 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway"]. 16:16:31 @topic-snoc #esoteric I do not know the channel Gregor 16:16:31 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway","I do not know the channel Gregor"]. 16:16:31 imo let's not do this 16:16:40 imo 16:16:42 let's do this all the time 16:16:44 no limits kmc 16:16:45 fuck limits 16:16:49 I'm with kmc 16:16:50 punk rock 16:16:59 In his house 16:17:06 Standing behind himj 16:17:10 With a knife 16:17:17 O: 16:17:32 kmc, where's your knife drawer? 16:17:37 I need to put this away 16:18:16 up your butt 16:18:19 i'm in Taneb's house but he's not home 16:18:33 @topic-snoc #esoteric I presume that I could break it by just making the topic so long that it cuts off. I doubt that it appropriately limits it, so instead it will simply create an array that doesn't parse, and with an array that doesn't parse, @topic-snoc will no longer understand the topic. This is just an assumption of course, but it's an assumption I intend to test with this very topic. Shoot, I've run out of things to say but I am not yet confident that thi 16:18:34 s is long enough. Hmmm... yeah, this is probably long enough, right? I guess I should have counted. Eenie meenie minie... now. 16:18:34 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/","hi","\226\152\186","bike","norway","I do not know the channel Gregor","I presume that I could break it by just making the topic so long that it cuts off. I doubt that it appropriately limits it, so instead it will simply create an array that doesn't parse, and with an array that doesn't parse, @topic-snoc will no longer understand the topic. This is ju. 16:18:38 i'm not home either 16:18:51 @topic-init 16:18:51 Then where did I get this knife 16:18:51 Plugin `topic' failed with: Prelude.last: empty list 16:18:57 @topic-init #esoteric 16:18:58 Topic does not parse. Should be of the form ["...",...,"..."] 16:18:59 then who was knife 16:19:00 you monster 16:19:03 ^^ 16:19:16 @topic-null #esoteric 16:19:16 -!- lambdabot has set topic: []. 16:19:26 @topic-cons #esoteric http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 16:19:27 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/"]. 16:19:35 -!- Gregor has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/" FUCK THE POLICE]. 16:19:37 Gregor: did you try building umlbox with linux >3.7 yet? 16:19:44 kmc: I haven't, no. 16:20:01 ok 16:20:07 I don't update it frequently. 16:20:09 `cat /proc/version 16:20:10 Linux version 3.7.0-umlbox (root@codu.org) (gcc version 4.4.5 (Debian 4.4.5-8) ) #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 16:20:13 Oh 16:20:13 @topic-(\x -> x ++ reverse x) #esoteric 16:20:13 Unknown command, try @list 16:20:13 Um 16:20:14 it breaks on this 3.9 release candidate; i haven't debugged it yet though 16:20:17 Apparently I did X-D 16:20:40 kmc: I assume that Linux/uml builds, but umlbox fails for some reason? 16:20:53 it builds, but running umlbox just produces 'Terminated' 16:21:03 i had that problem too iirc 16:21:07 the solution is to get a binary from gregor 16:21:13 Oh it is not X-D 16:21:16 Can you pastebin a verbose log? 16:21:22 maybe later, at work atm 16:21:30 it works fine with 3.7 which is what the script wants to build 16:21:37 i just wanted to test a newer kernel to see if the bug I found in UML is still present 16:21:42 Right, sorry, I misunderstood. 16:21:49 no worries 16:22:06 i don't have a good sense of how widely used UML is 16:22:14 possibly it's just broken in 3.9? 16:22:23 With myself, my bot, and you, I estimate three users. 16:22:42 haha 16:22:52 well people used to sell UML-based Linux VPSes, right? 16:22:56 but probably not much anymore 16:23:01 Yeah, but it's been entirely overtaken by Xen. 16:23:17 because Xen is faster and less janky? 16:23:21 Mmmmmmmmmmmhm. 16:24:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:25:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:27:17 kmc: For what it's worth, 3.8.6 works for me. 16:28:53 ok 16:34:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:34:39 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 16:34:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:36:48 kmc: It looks like Linux didn't build with initrd support. 16:37:07 ah, maybe the config file needs tweaking for 3.9? 16:37:09 Oh no wait... 16:37:16 Maybe it has a different default name for init? 16:37:43 No, that's not it either... 16:37:50 Damnation, I'm really not sure >_> 16:38:08 Maybe root=ram0 is a necessary option now, not implied by initrd=? 16:39:23 Nope... 16:39:27 Yeah, this requires investigation. 16:39:36 But it's something to do with loading init. 16:49:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:15:30 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:17:16 With myself, my bot, and you, I estimate three users. <-- 4, I use it too 17:17:52 UML or umlbox? 17:32:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:34:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:36:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:38:24 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 17:41:05 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:56:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:56:35 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 17:56:35 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:33:03 -!- dudu_ has joined. 18:33:47 how about a lang where you make a potion recipe and it might explode 18:34:01 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 18:34:38 dudu_: hi GOMadWarrior, hi Regis 18:34:46 why are you using webchat are you on another computer 18:34:48 hi 18:34:54 sometimes i am on another computer :( 18:34:58 im on my brothers pc 18:35:00 i am going to sleep now though! 18:35:47 elliott: Did you know that food older than you still exists? It's true. 18:36:13 Bike: i am literally food 18:36:24 Unprepared food! 18:37:43 sashimi d'elliott à la sauce tartare. 18:39:19 a language without numbers 18:40:07 or strings, you can only have lists of lists 18:41:06 learn lambda calculus. 18:41:58 i know it already 18:42:04 recursive functions and all that 18:43:02 Yes but you can encode everything as functions pretty easily. Or as lists. 18:43:07 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 18:44:16 I like tartar sauce 18:45:22 at all-you-can-eat buffets here you can order surf clam sashimi. that thing is addictive. 18:45:55 Saturday I had a nice fish'n'chips with tartar sauce, but it wasn't as good as my mom's. 18:46:18 -!- dudu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:47:22 that's the problem of having moved to the next city over: you get to miss your mom's cooking. *sigh* 18:50:22 canada has cities? 18:51:04 they at least pretend to have cities, which considering canada's average existence level is relatively significative. 18:53:46 I can confirm that Canada has cities; I have been to some. 18:54:19 I've been to one, but they don't use the term "litter" properly, so I have to assume that they're savages. 18:59:55 -!- augur has joined. 19:03:14 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:08:44 UML or umlbox? <-- umlbox 19:08:54 Gregor, which means I'm indirectly using UML too 19:10:35 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:12:39 Vorpal: Was just curious ;) 19:12:49 Really, 'twas just a joke about UML's use. I think it's pretty limited. 19:15:06 Amusingly it was probably significantly more used *before* it was merged in the kernel. 19:19:58 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:23:00 pikhq, heh 19:24:15 The fact that ports to systems other than x86[_64] are between stagnant and nonexistent is hardly promising. 19:26:58 i was wondering about that 19:27:14 it's kind of weird that 'um' is an arch, but also has code under other arches 19:27:19 pretty much necessary though 19:29:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:36:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:37:09 how to make concurrent languages? 19:37:25 hire a programming language theorist to do it for you 19:38:15 -_- 19:38:26 copy ideas from a couple of existing ones and claim you invented it= 19:38:32 s/=/?/ 19:38:49 im just wondering how its done 19:38:53 add mapreduce to C, change the syntax a bit, and call it good 19:38:57 s/?/？/ 19:38:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:39:00 Take an existing language from academia, make it use braces and keywords like "class" so that people will feel comfortable with it, and sell it. 19:39:11 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 19:39:13 Gregor: jinx! 19:39:24 boily, = is next to ? on Swedish keyboards 19:39:30 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486. 19:39:41 ... lolwut? 19:39:44 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 19:39:45 Why was PH banned? 19:40:15 how is it done? 19:40:27 the threads and things 19:40:30 Vorpal: there are heretics here that change their keyboard layout to AZERTY. *shudders* 19:40:43 Gregor: stealth deletion of a quote 19:40:44 Do you mean how are threads implemented? 19:40:52 just as i was editing it 19:41:04 `pastequotes 19:41:07 Ohhhhh 19:41:10 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21258 19:41:14 Well the punishment for that is death, not banishment. 19:41:54 wow that alternate universe thing went on for a while 19:42:05 Vorpal: there are heretics here that change their keyboard layout to AZERTY. *shudders* <-- where is that? 19:42:11 Gregor: btw i suspect your logs' quit filtering doesn't handle kicks properly 19:42:18 yes 19:42:34 oerjan: I've fixed that like twenty times how could it still be broken >_O 19:42:36 here is Montréal, heretics are Frenchmen, *shudders* are on my back. 19:42:37 wow that alternate universe thing went on for a while <-- what is the context? 19:43:02 Gregor: well just _look_ at the order of Phantom_Hoover's quits/joins in http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2013-04-09.txt 19:43:11 and kicks. 19:43:35 *sobs* 19:43:53 GOMADWarrior: Basically you switch execution context back and forth really fast. I recommend reading a book. 19:44:09 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:44:15 i dun have time for books 19:44:35 i have 2 books i havent finished 19:44:57 Then you don't have time for threading. 19:45:11 GOMADWarrior, read both books at the same time 19:45:31 lol 19:46:52 this? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.threading.executioncontext.aspx 19:47:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:47:28 Yeah, probably. 19:47:38 I just meant "execution context" as... the context of execution. 19:47:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:47:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:48:44 @ask zzo38 What kind of compression (if any) do you use on .dvi files? 19:48:45 Consider it noted. 19:49:44 Anyone here living near a tacky Finnish shop for tourists? 19:49:59 nope 19:50:36 shockingly, i suspect trondheim might not have any tacky finnish shops for tourists at all. but i'm not sure. 19:51:30 ~duck tacky finnish 19:51:31 --- No relevant information 19:52:13 oh right, in finland probably even the tourist shops have designers. so nothing tacky to be seen anywhere, hth 19:52:22 makes sense. 19:55:28 reading quotes at work is colleague-unfriendly. 19:56:16 sounds work-unfriendly too 19:57:56 it is. 19:58:00 btw, what is feather? 19:58:33 it's that stuff on birds 19:58:46 ^wiki feather 19:58:46 http://esolangs.org/wiki/feather 19:59:03 ah! that. 20:03:00 `quote 249 20:03:01 249) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity 20:04:33 HOLY BAJEEBERS 20:04:40 I just got that his name is a pun for "treat her right" 20:05:25 Whoa, it is! 20:06:13 * boily chairfalls in stupor 20:08:29 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:10:01 `quote 441 20:10:02 441) So it's like... Rummy mixed with... breakout? 20:10:14 Wrong me quote, hang on 20:10:16 `quote 411 20:10:18 411) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. 20:10:19 `addquote in the time it takes light to travel from Hexham to Finland, I can generate almost 20 new topics for #esoteric 20:10:23 1019) in the time it takes light to travel from Hexham to Finland, I can generate almost 20 new topics for #esoteric 20:10:56 I find the fact that 411 made sense in context a lot funnier than 411 itself 20:11:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:12:38 hmm, exactly how did that make sense? 20:13:03 olsner, I think oerjan questioned me when I kept saying "I know this from personal experience" 20:13:05 Or something 20:13:21 Because I said cows were scary (in the context of comments on a postcard) 20:13:26 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:13:32 And that punching yourself in the face hurts 20:13:34 oh, in its original context? not in the current context in which you did `quote? 20:13:36 (I forget why) 20:13:38 Yeah 20:13:49 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:14:13 `quote 452 20:14:15 452) Oh god. I've become a metallurgy hipster. 20:14:20 I'd like to confirm that cows are scary. 20:14:40 Bike: You misspelled "tasty". 20:14:54 The two properties are not mutually exclusive. 20:15:19 cowness and scariness are mutually inclusive 20:16:18 I wouldn't call cows scary. Bulls on the other hand... 20:17:35 cows intentionally lull you into a false sense of security by acting docile and uninterested 20:17:55 cows smell bad. 20:18:22 boily, yes, but that is not the same as scary 20:18:50 olsner, interesting theory 20:19:16 sort of like cats, but cows are better actors 20:19:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:19:26 http://satwcomic.com/precautions 20:19:39 olsner, and then they will take over the world in a coordinated attack, with the help of the robots? 20:20:03 alas, I don't know what their objective is 20:20:23 ah 20:20:29 that is even more dangerous 20:21:07 Wake up, cowple! 20:21:20 -!- heroux has joined. 20:21:58 * boily hides behind his trusty metasepia 20:22:09 good night 20:22:19 your cowttlefish? 20:24:13 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:24:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:24:38 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:25:24 Should I go to a riverborne cosplay event in July? 20:27:46 olsner: my bot isn't of a bovine predication, thank you very much. 20:27:52 ~duck riverbone 20:27:52 --- No relevant information 20:28:01 ~duck riverborne 20:28:03 --- No relevant information 20:28:17 "on a river" 20:28:56 -!- augur has joined. 20:29:50 boily: how do you know? 20:31:34 metasepia: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=8de358fa08f4f238b2b53d88798cd1f68131542e, not stripped 20:32:02 and, if you poke metasepia... 20:32:05 * boily pokes metasepia 20:32:11 it doesn't moo. 20:32:18 thus, it is not a cow. 20:32:36 undercover cows are better than that 20:32:51 They're very cownning 20:33:14 They uddertake cowntermeasures 20:33:20 can you tip metasepia? 20:33:26 * boily twitches 20:33:34 ow. oooooow. 20:33:51 @google riverborne 20:33:53 http://www.riverborneoutfitters.com/ 20:33:53 Title: Oregon Fly Fishing Guide Service | River Borne Outfitters 20:34:04 Taneb: YOU GO AHEAD 20:36:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:36:25 I'm gonna milk this one for all it's worth 20:43:08 While I was watching cowntdown, the letters for "milked" came up 20:44:00 I'll stop 20:47:48 even if today is ben & jerry's free cone day, cow puns are verboten. 20:48:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:49:33 I guernsey why you'd ban them 20:52:32 the sole good puns are fish puns. cow puns don't scale well. 20:53:02 catpuns are also acceptable 20:53:37 canada has cities? <-- faking a city takes less area than a rural landscape hth 20:54:04 boily: ... 20:54:40 coppro: catfish? 20:54:50 oerjan: what? :D 20:54:58 "scale well" 20:55:48 ...did you just make a pun that awful on _accident_? 20:56:03 Is there a Doctor Who based esoteric programming language? 20:56:19 impomatic: twoducks hth 20:56:35 oerjan: no. it was an entirely deliberate counterattack :D 20:56:49 good, good. 20:57:26 Thanks :-) 20:57:39 impomatic: i _might_ be joking hth 20:58:02 (a doctor who esolang would probably resemble it, though) 20:58:24 twhoducks? 20:59:04 Actually there's a version of Core War with time traveling processes http://perso.ens-lyon.fr/martin.bodin/timecorewar.html.en 20:59:26 excellent 21:01:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: goodnight). 21:02:39 twoducks is an esolang that really needed to have been invente 21:02:41 *invented 21:02:48 it's possibly one of the most intuitive uncomputable languages there is 21:14:30 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:15:27 something tells me those five new wiki accounts are not all productive esolangers. 21:16:29 make that twelve 21:16:49 wait, eleven, Yago was real 21:17:24 or at least doing something not obviously wrong 21:17:50 Hmm, on Apr 01 I should've claimed an `olist update and blamed it on oerjan's cache that he couldn't see it. 21:17:56 An opportunity wasted. 21:18:01 oh hm... 21:18:17 -!- monqy has joined. 21:18:36 i only looked at eir combined edits, individually they're rather stupid 21:18:52 oerjan uses Spivak pronouns? 21:19:08 shachaf: it wouldn't help since i have made a habit of adding the next expected number to the url by hand 21:19:23 also i'm an old agora player, so sometimes i do 21:20:26 twoducks is pretty great. 21:20:36 oerjan: you can check [[special:abuselog]] to see if they've been spamming 21:21:02 basically, the spambots haven't figured out newlines yet 21:21:08 ais523: oh hm 21:21:13 and so we told the software to stop them editing on that basis 21:21:42 “6. Out of a thousand-kilogram potato shipment, ⅛ had spoiled. How many kilograms was the school kitchen able to use?” http://fi3.eu.apcdn.com/medium/m_99651.jpg 21:22:23 ais523: well the trouble with Yago was he left too _many_ newlines XD 21:23:46 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:24:24 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 21:24:29 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 21:24:29 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 21:24:39 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:24:41 ais523: right, they all have except Yago. 21:24:45 oerjan: yeah, I noticed Yago's edits, but he/she didn't look like a spambot 21:24:46 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 21:26:21 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:28:37 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 21:28:51 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 21:33:34 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 21:33:34 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 21:33:34 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 21:33:34 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 21:35:01 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 21:36:52 -!- carado has joined. 21:39:07 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:01:48 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 22:01:57 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 22:01:57 -!- quintopia has joined. 22:05:20 halp how do i spend monqy 22:07:27 quintopia: i believe that's illegal 22:07:58 but otherwise, see your nearest slave market. 22:11:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:11:33 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:32:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:39:16 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:46:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:47:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:48:18 -!- Bike has joined. 23:09:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:11:43 -!- augur has joined. 23:12:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:12:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:14:36 -!- carado has joined. 23:19:44 -!- yours_truly has joined. 23:20:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:20:24 -!- yours_truly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:21:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:23:19 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 23:24:42 shachaf, be happy 23:24:43 `olist 23:24:45 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 23:25:17 Sorry I didn't do `olist about an hour sooner. Was commuting back home 23:28:12 Sgeo i can't help but question your commitment 23:28:30 are you really dedicated to performing a trivially-automated service manually? 23:28:54 because otherwise we may have to write a bot or, god forbid, check webcomics for updates ourselves 23:29:03 yay! 23:29:10 Don't even joke about that, man. 23:29:34 shall i ban Phantom_Hoover again just for the heck of it? 23:29:38 oh hey FireFly's on the olist now 23:30:00 oerjan, are you seriously going to ban me for making fun of Sgeo's lists 23:30:08 Thgeo 23:30:59 Phantom_Hoover: no, but i will make fun about doing so. 23:31:09 Where's the next `olist? 23:40:58 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 23:42:35 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:47:17 Sgeo: It turned out to be in #esoteric. 23:47:21 What were the chances? 23:49:26 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 23:51:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:51:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:56:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2013-04-10: 00:02:36 -!- FreeFull has quit. 00:43:12 -!- augur has joined. 00:47:44 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:47:45 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:47:45 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:58:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:59:25 -!- ssue_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:02:38 -!- lkr_java has joined. 01:02:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:03:26 -!- lkr_java has quit (Client Quit). 01:03:43 -!- lkr_java has joined. 01:04:44 fuck the polie 01:04:46 ? 01:04:48 police 01:04:49 ? 01:05:09 as long as they pay you 01:05:10 yes. 01:05:19 -!- lkr_java has left. 01:09:02 -!- oerjan has set topic: ["http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/" enterprise webscale brainfuck solutions]. 01:10:42 I think it would be fun to program in a pattern matching language completely without the concept of sequences 01:11:11 define "concept of sequences" 01:11:45 I mean you couldn't ensure that one thing happened before another 01:11:50 data List a = [] | Cons a (List a) or whatever 01:11:52 oh, sequencing. 01:12:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 01:12:14 you are referring to haskell's pattern matching being left to right? 01:13:14 I think if you don't use ~ patterns and treat variable patterns as matching everything except the other options you've already got that... 01:14:48 ?????? ? ??? ?? 01:15:01 hi, monqy. 01:15:09 hi bike 01:15:26 I don't know haskell but I was thinking of the kind of pattern matching that string rewriteing languages do 01:15:51 Oh. Have you seen Thue. 01:15:54 see now that makes more sense 01:16:10 yes I have 01:16:19 It doesn't have sequencing. 01:17:34 "This segment type is reserved but has unspecified semantics." the heck 01:18:11 I thought you could force sequenceing because the definitions themselves don't get rewritten 01:18:48 so if rule b can't fire until rule a has modified the string 01:18:51 You can force sequencing in getting a pattern to match only something produced by an "earlier" pattern. 01:19:02 insofar as that constitutes sequencing. 01:19:05 yes 01:19:31 so you're saying you want nondeterministic string rewriting where all the rule's can fire all the time 01:19:38 gl ;] 01:23:56 -!- ssue_ has joined. 01:24:20 and run backwards too 01:25:39 what sort of reversibility are we talking here 01:26:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:26:55 @topic-snoc #esoteric help 01:26:55 Topic does not parse. Should be of the form ["...",...,"..."] 01:27:41 monqy: ;] 01:28:06 -!- Bike has joined. 01:30:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:33:12 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:37:43 -!- conehead has joined. 01:39:33 `slist 01:39:34 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 01:47:07 -!- kmc has set topic: am i wry? imo no | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:49:10 * oerjan wonders if "imo no" means something in japanese 01:49:42 of the potato 01:50:01 http://jisho.org/words?jap=imo&eng=&dict=edict&common=on hth 01:50:35 oh i guess there's "imono", "cast metal", too, huh 01:50:45 excellent 01:50:58 imo no imono 01:51:13 i mono 01:51:22 imon o 01:51:23 Ah, much like "niwa ni wa niwa". 01:51:32 "There is a crocodile in the garden." 01:52:56 i'm 100% awful at japanese but, if you were to say something like "There aren't two crocodiles in the garden." 01:53:07 would it be "niwa ni wa niwa ni (counter) nai" 01:53:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:53:24 I think the counter is "hiki". 01:53:29 But yes. 01:53:35 excellent 01:53:54 Though a bit more natural would be "niwa ni wa nihiki no niwa ga nai" 01:54:27 And at that point you might as well go for "niwa ni wa niwa no niwatoori ga nai" 01:54:38 Erm, "niwatori" 01:54:56 (there are not two chickens in the garden) 01:55:38 wait, which word is crocodile here 01:55:39 imo prefix "わ！" 01:55:41 wani 01:55:52 ~surprisẽ~ 01:56:34 "what is with this channel and potatoes" 01:56:42 oerjan: It's Japanese having a giant chunk of homophones here. 01:56:59 you actually read it as "niwa ni, wani wa" (garden , crocodile ) 01:57:06 nooodl: Riiight, yeah. 01:57:17 nooodl: Thanks for the correction. 01:57:30 oerjan: "wani" is crocodile, "niwa" is "garden" or "two birds". 01:57:31 oh i thought you were making things extra fun & confusing intentionally 01:57:47 nooodl: No, I was just being bad. 01:58:08 ah 01:58:18 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:58:28 And "ni wa" is a perfectly sensible series of particles. 01:58:59 庭には二羽 <- See, perfectly reasonable. 01:59:11 わ: "3: (Prefix) Japanese-style" 01:59:16 i'm sure nobody ever uses this but 01:59:26 nooodl: It's used fairly often. 01:59:38 oooh 01:59:49 和食 for instance. 01:59:56 和服... 02:00:03 imo: japanese-style birds and alligators in japanese-style gardens 02:00:43 The etymology of "wa" to refer to Japan is utterly unknown. 02:00:57 Far as I know it's first attested with some Chinese dudes talking about the "people of Wa". 02:01:24 oh, doesn't that date back to like, the jomon almost 02:01:29 Yeah, "waniwa ni wa wawani to niwa no waniwatori" 02:01:31 Bike: Yes. 02:01:38 Bike: It's pre-writing-in-Japan. 02:02:28 good ol' dead cities 02:02:35 i hope it's just, "those crazy guys with their weird language with the はs" 02:02:42 Could be. 02:03:06 was /wa/ even a particle back in the day, though... 02:03:24 nooodl: It's a particle in the other Japonic languages. I'm going with "yes". 02:04:06 nooodl: given that it's chinese imperials it probably amounts to "these fucking hicks" 02:13:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:13:12 -!- augur has joined. 02:13:28 -!- Bike has joined. 02:22:59 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:39:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:40:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:47:17 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:51:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:53:20 -!- Bike has joined. 02:53:25 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:05:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:15:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:16:53 -!- Bike has joined. 03:22:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 03:22:38 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 03:22:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 03:25:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:54:36 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:02:02 -!- Vorpal has joined. 04:03:14 Bike: potatoes are the miracle food 04:03:22 they are both starch and vegetable and they go with everything 04:03:27 and can be cooked so many ways 04:03:38 i forget why you're telling me this but yes 04:03:39 you can pretty much live on potatoes and milk 04:06:58 you can also live off corn and beans 04:09:52 corn and beans and potatos and milk? now that's luxurey 04:10:06 do you have to nixtamalize the corn 04:10:16 not if you eat beans 04:10:23 cool 04:10:24 monqy, of course, is an ascetic living solely on human flesh. 04:10:27 although it is a good idea to do it anyway 04:10:43 the sheer variety of foods i eat in a single day is kind of staggering 04:11:08 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:13:27 today: lamb, eggplant, olive oil, onions, tomatoes, fava beans, garlic, pita bread, tortilla, pinto beans, chicken, avocado, rice, lettuce, hot capsicum, vinegar, etc. 04:13:31 -!- joop has joined. 04:14:24 today, I had beans and corn 04:14:39 and butter 04:15:03 I don't have much money for fancy things like lamb 04:15:11 also I'm lazy 04:17:55 yeah lamb is expensive I guess 04:18:01 meat in general is 04:18:35 yeah, pork here is almost $2 a pound 04:22:28 -!- joop has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:27:43 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:49:53 `slist 04:49:55 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:50:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:59:36 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:06:55 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:14:13 kmc: Fava beans? You fool! 05:14:39 I was surprised when I found out Egyptian falafel is made of fava beans. 05:14:45 shachaf: i hear it goes nicely with monqy's diet 05:15:01 and italian wine. 05:16:11 @as monqy i don't get it what's your diet ?????? 05:16:11 Consider it noted. 05:16:46 you _could_ look up about a page in the channel. 05:17:32 i read that but didn't understand it so i thought you meant something else but now i get it its a reference to that movie which i didn't watch 05:17:45 @ask monqy NEVER MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05:17:45 Consider it noted. 05:17:53 yes. i haven't watched it either btw. 05:18:00 fava beans nice chianti et c. 05:29:31 ais523: I seem to have been wrong re Humble Bundle ad emails not being a weekly occasion even when they have nothing else to say than the weekly sale. 05:29:42 fizzie: indeed 05:30:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnütt). 05:53:08 good 06:06:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:06:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:13:20 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:50:01 -!- joop has joined. 06:52:17 -!- joop has quit (Client Quit). 06:58:57 -!- clog has joined. 07:11:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:13:32 -!- joop has joined. 07:13:33 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:14:06 -!- joop has quit (Client Quit). 07:16:10 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 07:16:41 -!- joop has joined. 07:17:14 -!- joop has quit (Client Quit). 07:22:35 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0/20130326150557]). 07:25:18 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:35:06 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:39:37 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:41:44 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:44:14 -!- heroux has joined. 07:56:38 -!- joop has joined. 07:58:11 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:00:37 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:06:10 -!- joop has quit (Quit: Page closed). 08:17:43 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:30:53 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:31:33 -!- aloril has joined. 08:37:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:42:43 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:57:31 AndroIRC seems to disconnect when I leave this device unattended. 08:58:01 Yes, that is a problem with it 08:58:38 Is there a better alternative? 09:00:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:00:06 I have the bouncer configured to replay some amount of backlog, but it still pops up spurious query windows and all. 09:04:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:35:55 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:48:58 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:49:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:02:48 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 10:11:53 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 10:30:22 -!- TodPunk has joined. 10:32:31 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:39:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:40:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 10:40:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:43:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:15:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:19:01 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:21:13 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:32:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:40:03 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:07:16 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:17:20 -!- jconn has joined. 12:38:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:43:58 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:44:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:44:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:44:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:44:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:51:21 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 12:51:43 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:12:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:16:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:20:07 -!- boily has joined. 13:27:05 fizzie: android apps don't run in the background indefinitely 13:27:21 you could try whichivere flavor of connectbot has Mosh support 13:27:26 and run your IRC client on a remote server 13:31:20 kmc: android activities get GCed, but you can start always running background services. 13:31:39 (and, if you're not careful, they can be *very* always running and very hard to kill.) 13:38:57 I don't think I've had the same disconnectation problem with ConnectBot. 13:39:53 Anyway, the point was to run something with a proper text input box, the swiping and such seems to work quite differently in ConnectBot. 13:42:00 Android IRC's description page in Play says "stays connected in background". 13:42:20 (But it costs money.) 13:43:31 -!- carado has joined. 13:43:45 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 13:44:01 I'd try the "only replay unseen" bouncer option, but that never replays anything, because of an always-connected irssi. 13:45:37 i see 13:49:01 Perhaps I should try AndChat out, its changelog says "Tweaks to ensure service is killable when no servers connected" which sounds like it's doing a thing. 13:49:20 Or maybe it didn't support client-side SSL certificates. 13:54:09 (#firstworldproblems?) 13:55:58 s/#/\/r\// 13:56:30 (I feel like being of a corrective disposition today.) 13:57:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:03:46 Please don’t use / as the quote character if you’re using /s in the regexp or the substitution part. :-P 14:06:03 toothpicks shall be leaned with impunity! 14:06:52 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:11:22 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:13:49 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:17:20 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 14:17:34 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:36:48 -!- hagb4rdoux has joined. 14:53:24 > 30000 / 9.81 14:53:26 3058.103975535168 14:53:55 > 30000 / 9.81 :: Rational 14:53:57 1000000 % 327 14:53:58 > 30000 / 9.81 :: CReal 14:53:59 3058.1039755351681957186544342507645259938838 14:58:47 haskell.org is down :( 14:59:33 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:00:39 WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO 15:00:50 oh wait I'm not a haskell person 15:01:43 Koen_, be a Haskell person 15:01:53 I don't take orders from you! 15:02:48 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:03:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:03:27 Koen_: be a Haskell person. 15:03:40 it doesn't work like that 15:04:00 ~echo Koen_: be a Haskell person. 15:04:01 Koen_: be a Haskell person. 15:04:14 well you could at least have hidden the command! 15:04:22 oh, right. 15:04:30 theoretically I coudl learn haskell 15:04:31 Koen_: be a Haskell person. 15:04:37 it's on my list of languages 15:04:47 but chinese and dutch are higher on that list and that's gonna take a while 15:06:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:06:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:06:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:07:00 -!- boily has set topic: Koen_ be a Haskell person. | am i wry? imo no | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 15:07:08 -!- boily has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i wry? imo no | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 15:07:33 there, just the right amount of motivation to motivate you to be motivated at learning Haskell sooner. 15:10:54 http://189.34.44.144:8080/magic.html 15:17:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:40:29 -!- carado has joined. 15:47:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:50:32 `seen ThatOtherPerson 15:50:39 2013-04-09 18:53:46: I can confirm that Canada has cities; I have been to some. 15:53:44 he probably tried to check if those cities were still real. 15:53:57 that's why ThatOtherPerson has disappeared. 15:54:26 how do we know ThatOtherPerson hasn't become another person? 15:54:40 s/hasn't/didn't 15:55:01 -!- mrout has joined. 15:55:21 probably the canadian conspiracy assassinated him for revealing too much 15:55:22 -!- mrout has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:56:09 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:03:48 no one would have believed him anyway 16:03:54 -!- hagb4rdoux has changed nick to hagb4rd. 16:05:24 -!- conehead has joined. 16:16:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:16:46 -!- calamari has joined. 16:26:36 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:33:45 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Bye). 16:34:12 -!- calamari has joined. 16:38:27 -!- calamari has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:50:09 '"Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead" is now in the UK midweek Top 10.' 16:55:02 Welcome to Britain 16:56:48 -!- augur has joined. 17:00:35 -!- Bike has joined. 17:05:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:10:22 -!- btiffin has joined. 17:10:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:11:59 -!- Bike has joined. 17:32:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:37:43 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 17:39:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:41:14 -!- heroux has joined. 17:42:53 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:46:08 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:46:40 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:49:19 -!- atriq has joined. 17:49:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:51:00 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 17:51:54 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:56:02 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 17:56:44 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 18:07:58 -!- monqy has joined. 18:18:22 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:18:45 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:19:35 Cash out BTC going down. 18:20:13 has it dropped under 200$? 18:20:18 $183 18:20:25 http://bitcoinity.org/markets 18:20:30 still dropping like a rock 18:20:47 BTC is going down $20 in a minute 18:20:58 it needs to drop further, I still feel like I am missing out 18:20:59 "Mtgox trading engine lag: 3707.25s" 18:21:10 http://bitcoinity.org/markets 18:21:37 What's happening? 18:21:46 sell-off 18:22:03 there's a mysterious green line split into green lines... 18:22:06 one person is still buying at $200 occasionally, lolol 18:22:44 so bitcoin is crashing, eh 18:22:50 yep 18:23:07 But uh... so these trades are from an hour ago? 18:23:27 i think they were entered into the system 1 hour ago, but they're "happening" now 18:24:59 real cute lag] 18:25:40 everyone is cashing out I think 18:25:47 well should be 18:26:36 Bitcoinity is currently completely behind. New machine is coming slowly. Sorry folks 18:27:33 wow it's just dead 18:27:43 Yeah, bad gateway here 18:27:44 too much activity??? 18:27:48 noooo my rubbernecking :( 18:27:52 everyone wants to see it crash 18:28:14 me too 18:28:34 can I buy a time machine with bitcoins so I can go back and invest a lot of money in it 18:28:37 and take it out yesterday 18:28:41 plz 18:28:43 yes 18:29:28 -!- TodPunk has joined. 18:29:29 elliott: ask ais523, he seems to know a lot about that kind of stuff 18:29:35 oh have bitcoins finally crashed 18:30:19 crashing 18:30:19 Phantom_Hoover: well, seems like they are crashing. Unfortunately bitcoinity is down so we can't all watch it. 18:30:24 down to $156 from $260+ 18:30:32 https://mtgox.com/ has the last trade price at the top 18:31:04 http://markets.blockchain.info/ died too 18:31:24 oh it does load now 18:31:27 but very slowly 18:32:12 wait what 18:32:19 the price is back up to $190? 18:32:27 so that guy who bought a pizza for 10,000 bitcoins in 2010 18:32:36 AnotherTest: a few weirdos keep buying at $200 and $190 18:32:44 could have turned it into $2.6M this morning 18:32:46 but i wouldn't say "the price" is back up to that 18:32:55 kmc: possibly trying to save it? 18:33:09 there are lots of ways to define "the price" but you might take a volume-weighted average over some time window 18:33:45 Yes, that's true 18:34:25 http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ is working 18:34:27 fwiw 18:34:31 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:35:16 omg that spread 18:35:22 best bid $156 best ask $195 18:35:26 yup 18:36:34 https://boards.4chan.org/g/res/32947392#p32949294 18:36:39 Is this true? 18:37:11 is what true 18:37:34 that 18:37:42 "OH NO THE MONEY IS WORTH THE SAME AS WHAT IT WAS YESTERDAY" 18:37:42 kmc: what the message says 18:37:59 you mean about NYSE? 18:38:34 can you paste so i dan't have to read 4chan at work 18:38:43 or figure out what the hell even message you're referring to 18:38:44 tia 18:39:01 people in mtgox IRC calling for them to completely halt the market for a day 18:39:06 >MagicalTux: shut it down. NYSE shuts down with there's a single day dip that's half as big as what we've seen, and in their case *they* didn't help to *cause* it 18:39:38 are you using 4chan for financial advice? 18:40:02 olsner: no, I don't read 4chan usually 18:40:03 yes, NYSE has circuit breakers 18:40:13 i think all the US equity markets have them 18:40:13 olsner: someone just sent me this though 18:41:48 i hear the spread is due to mtgox being massively lagged so everyone's trying to guess where the markets will be an hour hence 18:42:06 That sounds like a neat problem, actually. 18:42:09 yeah I think there's a panic sell that is wiping out the bid side of the book 18:42:17 while nobody bothers tending to limit sell orders 18:42:30 v.cute 18:43:11 hmm 18:43:16 https://images.4chan.org/g/src/1365616607844.gif Good thread 18:43:41 btw NYSE may be where many stocks are listed, and they have a nice looking building, but as a trading center they only have a small fraction of US equities 18:44:00 bitcoinity is back up 18:44:21 all the actual trading happens in data centers in New Jersey and those mostly aren't run by NYSE (although they eventually got around to buying the operator of one of the main ones) 18:44:26 (hmm... that stuff is still online: http://www.cgarbs.de/tentakel.en.html) 18:56:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:56:41 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 18:59:11 Mtgox trading engine lag: 4356.00s 19:02:37 -!- augur has joined. 19:07:29 how about a lang that plays out like a rpg battle 19:08:03 GOMADWarrior: you should actually make one of these things, and show it to us 19:08:20 oh hey rationalwiki has a hitpiece on david gerard 19:08:22 er 19:08:24 on bitcoins 19:08:30 and it's written by david gerard 19:08:34 what's a "hitpiece" 19:08:41 what's normal lag for a stock exchange? 19:08:42 and who's "david gerard" 19:08:44 a long explanation of why they're crap 19:08:49 sounds dull 19:09:04 it's a hitpiece because the guy who wrote it was spectacularly annoying when i knew him 19:09:13 ~duck hitpiece 19:09:14 --- No relevant information 19:09:21 ~duck david gérard 19:09:21 --- No relevant information 19:09:25 ~duck david gerard 19:09:25 By 1484 he had established himself in Bruges, where he remained until his death. 19:09:34 Phantom_Hoover: dang, PH, you're old! 19:09:36 olsner: I would guess somewhere from milliseconds to seconds, but i dunno 19:09:38 but christ he was annoying until then 19:10:56 how about a language that only has one loop statement, the infinite loop, and you have to use break to get it 19:10:59 get out* 19:11:52 not interesting 19:12:03 it's very easy to compile a for loop or normal while loop to that 19:12:12 programming in this language would not be very different 19:42:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:43:15 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:43:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:45:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:48:49 also 19:49:20 that's how some compiler compile it anyway. 19:50:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:54:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:54:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:54:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:55:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:58:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:59:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:02:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:03:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:04:37 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 20:05:12 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 20:05:12 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 20:07:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:08:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:09:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:09:43 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:16:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:17:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Robot). 20:17:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:18:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:18:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:18:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:20:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:20:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:25:49 13:54:09: (#firstworldproblems?) 20:25:49 13:55:58: s/#/\/r\// 20:25:54 boily: the channel exists. 20:26:03 only 2 members though. 20:26:49 Please don’t use / as the quote character if you’re using /s in the regexp or the substitution part. :-P 20:27:32 bah, /// ftw 20:27:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:28:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:28:31 (admittedly i used substitutions from (|) (iirc) in my bct interpreter) 20:29:35 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:30:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:59 '"Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead" is now in the UK midweek Top 10.' <-- XD 20:31:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 20:31:27 -!- boily has joined. 20:31:36 i _did_ notice a photograph somewhere with "The Bitch is Dead" and wondered why they didn't go all the way. 20:31:38 /close and /quit are not the same. 20:31:49 boily: wow! 20:32:09 Poulet! 20:32:56 oh, yeah. I did chickenise my quit message indeed. 20:33:00 poulet au prunes 20:33:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:33:10 boily: um you've had that for ages 20:33:11 «aux». 20:33:19 -!- augur has joined. 20:33:21 oh right 20:33:24 oerjan: I know. I tend to forget about the surrounding chickens. 20:33:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:34:01 (that book title is how i know what poulet means) 20:34:08 poulet aux vache 20:34:13 «vaches». 20:34:24 stop butchering the noble French plural, you plebeian! 20:34:27 olsner: aux goes with plural. 20:34:37 fetchez la vache! 20:34:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:35:20 people here always take English words and conjugate them in French. 20:35:41 «t'irais tu me fetcher ça s'te plaît?» 20:36:09 boily: that particular case is a quote from very intentionally butchered french, assuming i got it right. 20:36:35 je voudrais une baguette, s'il vous plait 20:37:38 oerjan: I'm currently actively abstaining from annoying the glorious citizens of this fine channel by quoting other replies from that movie. 20:37:53 je suis une petite pamplemousse avec du yeux bleu 20:38:04 olsner: wut? 20:38:08 one of only a handful pieces of french I know 20:38:24 «Je suis un petit pamplemousse avec des yeux bleus.» 20:38:33 i don't see how that could _possibly_ be annoying hth 20:38:46 * oerjan runs away 20:38:57 boily: meh, the s'es are silent anyway 20:39:14 and I never knew how to spell it 20:39:42 sometimes the plural is with s, sometimes with x, sometimes completely arbitrary. 20:40:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:40:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:40:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:41:59 (discovery of the day: poulet aux prunes is from the same woman that wrote persepolis.) 20:42:33 i know. even though i only got a handful pages into them. 20:43:11 possibly because they were actually in french. 20:43:39 (in the library. it later got a norwegian version but i didn't bother.) 20:44:01 you didn't realize it was actually french until several pages into them? 20:44:33 yes i did, but my french wasn't good enough for my patience to hold. nor was the book subject interesting enough for me. 20:44:41 *comic book 20:47:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:48:16 french is not a language I'm trying to learn 20:49:11 *graphic novel, i suppose 20:51:58 tswett: this bitcoin crash i see about in the logs is probably due to your new esolang, hth 20:52:21 Aha! 20:52:32 you need to know the basics in French: «bonjour», «au revoir», «merci», and «mon aéroglisseur est plein d'anguilles». 20:52:33 it gave the speculators too much power 20:52:35 I was trying to think of the French phrase for "comic book" a few weeks ago! 20:53:02 bande dessinée is comic iirc 20:53:11 I was close 20:53:17 I had arte instead of bande 20:53:26 arte? 20:53:59 My pretty much non-existent knowledge of French playing up 20:54:16 ah. no worries, then. 20:55:26 oerjan: I agree. 20:56:20 Mt. Gox says the last trade price is $189; what kind of crash is that? 20:56:21 boily: you forgot something about ears and bananas imo 20:56:46 Oh, it was up to, like, $240. 20:57:32 oerjan: quoi? je t'entends pas, j'ai une banane dans l'oreille. 20:57:37 Wow, Bitcoins are deflated 20:57:55 boily: and something about eating glass 20:58:28 Taneb: there was a big DDOS attack I heard 20:58:42 the price is back up to $190 but like, all the trades are executing with huge delays and stuff 20:58:53 oerjan: I'll have to check that one up. can't remember what's the "official" québécois translation. I think it goes like this: «j'mange d'la vitre pis ça me fait pas mal». 20:59:06 (the weighted average price is still really high so I'm guessing very few trades executed at the lower prices?) 20:59:07 I'm tempted to write some sort of automatic trading program and seed it with, like, ten bucks. See how quickly I can turn it into a hundred thousand. 20:59:29 shouldn't take more than a week... 20:59:44 I'm guessing HFT is a little tricky at least on mtgox, since they charge a 0.6% fee per transaction 20:59:47 It was $13 a few weeks ago 21:00:37 another piece of french I may know wrong: les poisson cru est salée 21:01:04 that was in the "things that french people will find funny about sweden" chapter of the french books 21:01:09 «Le poisson cru est salé.» 21:01:24 the ddos strategies are kind of evil though, it's like, ddos the exchanging, cause panic selling, buy at lower prices, stop ddos, sell -_- 21:01:28 *the exchanges 21:01:53 Fiora: the hours of lag might be a bigger obstacle to HFT? 21:02:19 well yes trying to do HFT during a DDOS is probably a horrid idea too XD 21:02:27 i think the "DDoS" is that a bunch of people tried to sell their bitcoins all at once 21:02:33 and MtGox is shitty so this caused them to fall over 21:02:41 $13 was a few months ago 21:02:53 tromp_, I've lost all track of time 21:02:54 oerjan: found the canonical glass form: «J'peux bouffer d'la vitre, ça m'fa pas mal.» 21:03:09 tswett: just because the last trade was at $189 doesn't mean that "the price has recovered" to there 21:03:18 boily: merci beaucoup 21:03:26 the weighted average is probably the best thing to look at 21:03:26 throughought the crash there were people occasionally buying for $40+ more than the rest of the trades 21:03:29 the spreads got crazy huge 21:03:31 yes 21:03:35 ($198) 21:03:36 volume-weighted average price is legit 21:03:41 so what's that down to 21:03:43 Fiora: really? over what time window? 21:03:50 oh 21:03:51 I think it's one day 21:03:57 welp 21:04:01 let's see what it is tomorrow :) 21:04:01 But like, I watched it during the crash, it didn't go down much 21:04:06 that's not true 21:04:07 I'm guessing very few trades were executing during it 21:04:12 https://data.mtgox.com/api/0/png/24hours.png?Currency=USD 21:04:13 um, I meant the weighted average didn't 21:04:15 not the price 21:04:40 well there was half a day of normal trading before the crash 21:05:01 tomorrow <-- how am i supposed to wait that long for my schadenfreude! 21:05:18 I dunno, I'm kinda wondering how anyone could sell when the exchange was lagging that much XD 21:05:30 and the market depth indicator is still down... -_- 21:06:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:07:06 that thing is vile: http://foodbeast.com/content/2013/04/08/po-boy-ramen-sandwich-for-when-youre-desperate-and-out-of-bread/#.UWSVqJNwqjQ 21:07:20 hmm. I wonder if you could actually judge the volume of the low-price trades by watching the rate of change of the weighted average 21:07:36 since I'm guessing it gets periodically recalculated? 21:07:39 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:09:05 * Fiora will try this 21:11:33 "As one of the oldest and most established Bitcoin businesses in operation today, Mt.Gox K.K. has developed a reputation based on reliability and stability, allowing users to trade with confidence." 21:11:34 according to my phone, I have ~0,0504 CAD in bitcoins. 21:11:56 And they're registered in Japan for some reason. 21:12:47 https://www.tibanne.com/ Did you know that Tibanne is a company incorporated in Tokyo (Japan) in 2009? 21:13:23 I think they're like the one bitcoin exchange/tool that was hacked and actually covered all the losses, so maybe comparatively they are reliable and stable? XD 21:13:46 Bike: https://mtgox.com/img/quote.gif 21:13:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:13:52 Bike: is there anything else to know about Tibanne? 21:13:53 -!- carado has joined. 21:14:14 kmc: yeah i noticed that in that bitcoin stalker paper fiora linked 21:14:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:14:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:15:36 "if trades now are $1 less than 24 hours ago, and the volume is the same, the average will change by 1/24 dollars per hour" <-- this is correct right 21:16:56 and I guess if you count volume, then it'd be 1/24 * (volume now / volume then) 21:22:22 Fiora: only if the average volume is the same for the entire time between as well 21:23:02 true.... *super rough estimations* 21:24:02 and that's for your first line, i'm too lazy to check your second one 21:25:30 kmc: okay my wildly crazy guesstimate math says the average sale price during the crash was around 175-180 21:25:37 where the crash is the past 4 hours ish I guess 21:26:26 and the official numbers say volume was 75k in the past 4 hours, and 150k in the past 24! so 75000 bitcoins were sold at around 175-180 average. wildly guessing <.< 21:28:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:21 but if you want schadenfreude maybe find the people investing in bitcoin hedge funds? XD 21:31:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds). 21:32:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:32:22 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:32:34 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:34:11 oh um, unrelatedly kmc bike was talking about your breakpoint/interrupt stuff 21:34:28 ok cool 21:34:34 what about it 21:34:36 hi Bike 21:35:01 he was um, I think he was looking at SBCL's allocator and the way it handled interrupts with this weird pseudo-atomic thing? 21:35:04 it was weird 21:36:22 oh, yeah, it uses a BREAK to run interrupts deferred during a pseudoatomic section, i guess 21:36:49 hmm, I recognize this topic 21:37:30 it stores EBP in some FS-indexed thread local data structure, then if an interrupt hits it sets some flag there, and then it xors it at the end of the allocation, and checks to see if it's zero? 21:37:36 and if not it signals a trap 21:37:39 it's interesting 21:40:03 like I am kind of half-guessing at what it does 21:49:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:04:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:05:09 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:07:07 kmc: okay it's schadenfreude time, bitcoin is now down to 138 and falling XD 22:08:38 yeah, we were pointing and laughing earlier 22:08:53 for shits and giggles i checked the bitcoin subreddit, it's... amusing 22:09:46 oh gosh. 22:10:05 whats the shits to giggles ratio here 22:10:13 it was below 138 22:10:19 i think 22:10:24 yeah, but like, the exchange was being ddossed before 22:10:24 so i guess it is "recovering" 22:10:26 but now it seems to be working 22:10:32 it went bac up to about $200 as the ddos ended 22:10:34 http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ 22:10:36 and then... crashed again 22:10:38 i mean... 138 is still a lot 22:10:45 oh actually that's gone down 22:10:53 Phantom_Hoover: WFM 22:11:01 however i find its output completely unreadable 22:11:11 oooh. that's a cool chart thing 22:11:19 i think it's just boxplots 22:11:35 yes i am bad at them 22:11:42 bitcoins sort of remind me of eve online 22:11:54 I don't think even ISK was that volatile 22:12:13 microcosms of incredibly deep RL-mimicking politics that spill out into the world at large 22:12:31 and probably better to watch from a distance than get involved in 22:12:43 also everyone's a twenty-something dude? 22:12:50 i thought getting involved in eve was one of your inevitable life goals 22:13:09 Bike: does this mean we can extend it to startups 22:13:42 Phantom_Hoover: it's more like having nightmares about falling into a life of drugs and sin and fearing they may one day come true 22:13:45 except it's EVE 22:14:14 there's definitely that weird feeling when the internet spills out into reality like that 22:14:21 like. reading news articles about -bitcoin hedge funds- 22:14:44 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:14:45 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 22:14:45 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:15:43 https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin 22:15:52 i like how russia is actually the most interested 22:15:57 or the other way, like when one of the most prominent EVE players was killed by terrorists in Benghazi 22:16:01 (also a SA mod) 22:16:05 yeah ;-; 22:16:07 that was sad 22:16:09 that was so weird 22:16:21 i wonder how viable it is to speculate ISK... 22:16:26 is this a thing people do 22:16:27 not viable at all 22:16:32 also had the concrete effect for me that a lot of dumbassed EVE players decided to talk about glassing Libya in SA's middle east thread 22:16:35 fuckers 22:16:51 it's probably hard because the only decent way I remember to convert dollars<->ISK is with PLEX? 22:16:53 because it's illegal to trade ISK for real money and CCP will come down on you like a ton of bricks if you do 22:17:04 which isn't really... like. I don't think you can buy dollars with PLEX 22:17:05 Phantom_Hoover: are you saying illegal things are always not viable 22:17:06 Fiora, and that's /only/ dollars->ISK 22:17:07 at least not legally 22:17:12 yeah... 22:17:17 You could speculate for more ISK, couldn't you? 22:17:24 because otherwise they're subject to icelanding banking regulations 22:17:35 and it being against the ToS would increase a pretty hefty cost to trades back to dollars, I'd imagine 22:17:35 Phantom_Hoover: yes but the idea is that you are a sufficiently good criminal and get away with it 22:17:45 so it'd be a lot harder to profit because of that premium 22:17:49 yeah that's true 22:18:41 guess you have to be good enough about speculation to beat that! 22:19:36 does eve have like, stocks 22:20:41 oh fuck it could be a practical application of that paper about arbitrage when you have FTL 22:21:23 haha 22:21:30 elliott: yeah, but no regulation :p 22:21:38 investment scaaaaaams~ 22:21:41 i think it's so cool that relativity is an important factor in real world stock trading on earth 22:21:52 we need to get krugman playing EVE, people. this could happen 22:22:02 both literal speed of light relativity but also the more general idea of "you can't say what the price is, independent of your reference frame" 22:22:07 kmc: they like, build computers closer to the NYSE right 22:22:12 to get faster connections 22:22:17 for HFT 22:22:21 kmc: what XD 22:22:23 elliott: yeah, you pay $$$$$$$ to have your computer hosted in the same datacenter as the exchange's 22:22:38 oh gosh, I guess that is true, since there's no absolute reference frame 22:22:38 in fact big banks will buy up those spots just so their competitors can't have them 22:22:42 well, marginal theory of value, right? 22:22:50 are HFT people actually doing relativity calculations? 22:22:55 kmc, uh, why can't you just use earth as a reference frame 22:22:56 things don't have objective value 22:23:11 Fiora: not calculations per se, that i know of, but you definitely care about the time it takes light to travel on this or that path 22:23:13 Fiora: well, they're surely going to at least measure their ping 22:23:14 Phantom_Hoover: "the earth is down, therefore gold is $400" 22:23:17 i mean there aren't exactly any stock exchanges in geostationary orbit 22:23:22 and use that 22:23:31 light travels about 1/3 slower in optical fiber, so some people use microwave links instead 22:23:40 I remember reading a thing where they were proposing using neutrinos sent through the earth to gain a latency edge 22:23:45 Fiora: >_< 22:23:53 c.c 22:24:10 HFT sounds like a lot of fun to work on 22:24:10 http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedorminey/2012/04/30/neutrinos-to-give-high-frequency-traders-the-millisecond-edge/ 22:24:14 we need a blockbuster movie about having to nuke the core of the earth to restart it after it's been flooded by neutrinos from greedy captain planet villains 22:24:14 also incredibly stressful 22:24:18 elliott: yep 22:24:23 yeah, I've heard horrid things about working in that industry ;-; 22:24:26 elliott: also the code is shit qualityp 22:24:35 where people go in, work insane hours, and burn themselves out in two years for the hope of huge payouts 22:24:36 elliott: isn't quant like the worst job and also best paying job for math people. 22:24:51 hft sounds awfull 22:24:54 kmc: i know there are a few HFT firms that use Haskell, i wonder if their code is any better than the average 22:24:58 most industries have deadline pressure but in HFT there's no deadline per se, it's just every day you don't trade you are leaving money on the ground 22:25:17 elliott: unsafeCoerce for speed 22:25:18 so everyone just copy-pastes the last similar thing, hacks it up real quick, and starts trading ASAP 22:25:26 Bike: well we do that in lens too 22:25:33 wait, I think edwardk works as a quant. 22:25:36 it all makes sense now 22:25:40 IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER 22:25:43 doesn't edwardk build analysis software 22:25:59 monqy: but algorithms 22:26:14 butt algorithms 22:26:33 the high frequency porn trading circuit 22:27:59 A Reddit user posted a graphic showing the Spartans' shields from the movie 300 redesigned as Bitcoins with the word HOLD! across the top. 22:28:02 -- Business Insider 22:28:05 thanks. 22:28:08 thanks for the info 22:28:18 :-] 22:28:54 quality journalism! 22:29:24 it links to 22:29:24 Bitcoin Fanboy Makes Awesome Graphic Telling Others To Stay Strong In The Face Of Collapse 22:29:30 Bitcoins are crashing today. 22:29:31 They're down from over $260 earlier to under $190. 22:29:31 This graphic was posted to Reddit by user blood4thegood to encourage fellow Bitcoiners to hold strong and not sell into this panic. 22:29:33 this is actually an article 22:29:34 on their website. 22:29:42 on... Business Insider? 22:29:44 yes. 22:29:46 also they got the username wrong 22:29:48 despite linking it. 22:29:54 http://www.businessinsider.com/as-bitcoin-prices-collapse-fans-are-telling-each-other-to-stay-strong-and-hold-2013-4 behold 22:31:01 http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/516571b3ecad04492200001b-918-689/Bitcoin-billionaire.png these are some good articles 22:31:37 because it's illegal to trade ISK for real money and CCP will come down on you like a ton of bricks if you do <-- something tells me you were _not_ speaking about icelandic krona anyhow 22:32:09 oerjan: icelandic fake krona 22:32:34 Bike: where... where is the billionaire 22:33:45 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:33:51 There are snippets of information: he or she claims that they were an "early adopter," and had forgotten they even had any Bitcoins. "I am bitcoin," he or she wrote in a moment of megalomania. 22:34:38 what 22:34:55 prices do seem to be rising from the second trough, admittedly 22:34:58 choice business insider quotes 22:35:25 link 22:35:40 a massive bitcoin crash occurs! it must be because of this random redditor who gave away 50 coins 22:36:03 elliott: http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-bitcoinbillionaire-2013-4 22:36:05 -_- 22:36:05 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:36:07 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:36:07 elliott: how did you deregister yourself accidentally? 22:36:31 ? 22:36:38 on freenode? 22:37:22 oh humans, what won't you attribute to some mysterious agent in order to insulate yourself from the blind terror of the world 22:37:45 good question 22:37:48 no that's actually about a guy who gave away a few tens of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins 22:38:09 and then ended with a ron paul quote 22:38:39 http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcointip/comments/1c1hp2/a_4680_tip_really/c9c7sfq?context=3 22:38:42 i am bitcoin 22:39:10 MF BADASS. 22:39:29 http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-billionaire-tips-being-passed-on-2013-4 22:39:33 bitcoin billionaire: the follow-up story 22:39:36 brought to you by business insider 22:42:32 well how else are they supposed to be hip 22:42:36 youth culture of today &c &c 22:43:16 -!- augur has joined. 22:43:44 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:44:08 -!- augur has joined. 22:49:17 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:56:29 -!- ousia has joined. 23:01:57 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:02:56 elliott: no, Agora 23:03:01 speaking of which, your votes make me sad :( 23:03:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:03:51 oh, I am not a player/ 23:03:53 *? 23:06:51 Anybody know any good papers/whatever on closures being partial applications? 23:06:53 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:07:15 Closures being partial applications? 23:07:32 elliott: no, I just don't like seeing blanket against votes 23:07:33 that's all 23:07:37 yes. that is what i said. 23:07:43 Yes, but what did you mean? 23:07:45 well I don't like seeing thousand-proposal distributions 23:08:12 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 23:08:16 shachaf: If you lift all the free variables in a lambda abstraction into being parameters, a closure is then that lambda+a few partially applied arguments. 23:08:52 "let x = 55 in \x y -> x + y" "(\x y -> x + y) 55", i guess? 23:09:29 OK, and then you implement partial application via what mechanism? 23:09:35 lambda the ultimate declairitive? 23:10:25 shachaf: does it matter? 23:12:28 Well, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. 23:12:53 neither am I, that's why I'd like to read something about it. 23:12:56 If you want papers to read maybe you should read this one, though. 23:12:57 @where stg 23:12:58 http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.53.3729 23:13:54 wow that's as old as me 23:14:20 wow Bike how does it feel to be old 23:15:47 Bike: that paper is older than me 23:15:59 conclusion: Bike doesn't exist 23:16:12 I think we all knew that, John. 23:16:46 Bike only lives as an irc spirit 23:16:53 who's John 23:17:14 shachaf, Rambo. ofcourse. 23:17:56 http://www.businessinsider.com/2-million-bitcoin-pizza-2013-4 23:18:09 meanwhile, in bitcoin news 23:18:29 This episode is a big lesson and a big cautionary tale: Anyone transacting in Bitcoin is liable to feel like an idiot the next day, as the price surges or collapses. 23:18:32 Hence it makes more sense to just speculate, and not do anything real. 23:18:35 business insider trying to bring down bitcoin 23:18:44 ron paul insider 23:18:49 http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-panic-looks-like-2013-4 23:18:50 Others are saying to put things into "perspective," meaning that Bitcoin is still up a lot in recent days/weeks (that's classic). 23:18:57 this is literally a blog 23:18:58 Bike: also remember THIS game::::: http://www.abandonia.com/files/games/631/Fable_1.jpg 23:19:06 http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-250-2013-4 23:19:07 BITCOIN $250 23:19:09 No comment needed. 23:19:11 JOURNALISM 23:19:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:19:19 shachaf: nope. 23:19:34 but seriously is this a real magazine because i thought it was but... what 23:19:37 elliott: itym \rainbow{JOURNALISM} hth 23:19:41 elliott, check out the lone comment 23:19:54 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 23:19:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:20:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:20:21 Bike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAJiCERMxfI 23:20:25 "The Overly-Attached Girlfriend Explains What It's Like Being A Wildly Popular Internet Meme 23:20:29 come on. come on 23:20:32 Bike: I'd've expected you to know it. 23:20:49 i'm not really "a games person" 23:21:15 haha is this real dialogue 23:21:33 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Insider apparently it's just a website but I think it's meant to be, like, reputable 23:21:41 that's what i thought! 23:21:46 but they're being very UNreputable 23:21:54 dereputable one might say 23:22:11 "Deputy editor Nicholas Carlson previously worked at Internet.com and Gawker Media's Silicon Valley gossip blog, Valleywag.com." 23:22:45 "It [valleywag] was the first to break some stories, such as the leaking of a Gene Simmons sex tape." 23:24:26 Phantom_Hoover: more than one comment 23:24:29 Phantom_Hoover: that's just the only Insider™ comment 23:24:34 there are 33 comments! 23:24:40 "In its first post, Valleywag outed the fact that Google founder Larry Page and high-ranking employee Marissa Mayer had dated for months." jesus christ 23:24:41 oh 23:24:50 that just makes it worse 23:25:04 Bike: "gawker" 23:25:31 "In journalism school, you would never even think about sharing any gossip of this nature without at least two reliable sources, but that never stopped Owen, nor did it stop other bloggers from picking up the incendiary story and shining a very negative light on the Web server hosting company in question." 23:25:34 In spring 2008, Valleywag ran a series of articles on Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales, alleging that he traded favorable edits for sexual favors and donations to the Wikimedia Foundation. 23:25:51 the tech news world may just be the saddest shit ever 23:26:09 elliott: what, you've never heard of them? 23:26:53 Bike: no i just mean 23:26:53 they have like... io9 and kotaku and stuff. 23:26:54 "gawker". 23:27:02 i know who they are. 23:27:03 well yeah it's a web 4.0 name 23:27:06 no i 23:27:07 am not commenting 23:27:09 on the name 23:27:16 are you commenting that gawker is shitty 23:27:27 something along those lines yes, meanwhile 23:27:28 And here's what the latter folks understand that the those who are huffing about "Bitcoin bubbles" don't: 23:27:31 The most you can lose if Bitcoins go to zero is 100% of your money. 23:27:34 The most you can make, meanwhile ... 23:27:36 Well, no one knows exactly how much you can make. 23:27:49 ok glad we had this talk. i look forward to move bitcoin investment tips. 23:28:10 more? move? who knows 23:28:30 Are there any bubbles where it's possible to lose more than has been invested? 23:28:57 One of your disgruntled employees could murder you. 23:29:14 gotta keep them employees gruntled 23:29:28 Or you could collapse the bubble so hard the economy collapses, and you're reduced to Mad Max style guerilla startup investment. 23:30:06 elliott: Anywhere from $1 to $1 google? 23:31:45 Bike, the sad thing is i suspect a large number of bitcoiny types think they would be happy with this 23:32:08 pikhq_: ps it was a quote 23:32:50 Ah, right, it used capitalization. 23:33:02 Sgeo: well if you accept the explanation that the housing (+ mortgage derivatives) bubble caused a global financial meltdown 23:33:05 then yes 23:33:09 i don't know how true that is really 23:33:15 it's basically what Bike said, with the Mad Max 23:33:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:33:49 Mad Max? 23:34:04 thunderdome, etc 23:34:05 elliott: ""You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretsky" -- Michael Scott 23:34:18 -- kmc 23:34:32 "" -- You 23:34:37 I knew 'mad max' had to mean something, after someone was doing an LP that had the phrase "And now mad MAAX" and the LPer commented on that 23:35:17 more sterling work from s. geo, detective, gentleman and lover 23:36:13 Is the room discussing investing? I have a feeling that with the Cayman Island hidden wealth data leak, there will be a run on gold soon. And jewels, and great huge pirate treasure hoards accumulating soon as the duck and cover proceeds. 23:38:50 "I'm sorry, I can't disclose anything about that customer's secret, illegal account." 23:39:36 Sgeo: you can lose more than you've invested if you leverage yourself! 23:40:06 Sgeo: re bubbles where you can lose more than has been invested: yes, that's what a short squeeze is. 23:40:06 (which is doubly dangerous in bubbles, since the market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent, as I think the adage goes) 23:40:58 tswett, incidentally, do you think I severely spoiled HS for Aftr.? 23:41:12 it's a really dangerous bit about any kind of short investing, even if you know with total certainty that the price will eventually fall you can still end up bankrupt 23:41:25 Sgeo: that seems almost impossible. 23:41:34 But I haven't actually caught up, so I don't actually know. 23:41:39 Or well, in a way that... oh 23:41:48 *in a way that would bother Aftran 23:43:04 IT'S A SPOILER CASCADE 23:44:02 Fiora: p. good adage 23:44:28 Fiora: it depends on how exactly you're shorting, though 23:44:34 -!- augur has joined. 23:44:43 typically you go through a brokerage which imposes certain margin requirements, and will close out your position if you get too far in the red 23:45:04 I'm confused 23:45:23 If you're shorting, aren't you betting that the price will fall? So you'd only lose money if the price kept going up? 23:45:26 so that caps your losses (not sure if that holds up in court, though, if they fail to close it out) 23:45:29 Sgeo: yes 23:45:59 Sgeo: specifically, you've borrowed the asset in order to sell it, so you owe someone the return of that asset 23:46:12 if the price goes up, the cost to you of buying back that asset to make good on your debt can be arbitrarily high 23:46:15 kmc: well it's just like, either your short position has a margin call problem or it's time-limited (like an option) 23:46:19 I think? 23:46:25 yeah 23:46:36 it's different if you're, like, a registered broker-dealer doing shorts on the exchange directly 23:46:42 naked shorting? :P 23:46:47 in that case you might even be allowed to do naked shorts 23:46:47 yeah 23:46:50 I just saw a blog post about auto defined functions, and all the comments are trying to sell him car parts 23:46:51 because they know they can come after you 23:46:56 I guess long term capital management is a great example of it though, they had an investment that was basically guaranteed to eventually rise in value 23:47:12 but they still got run out of the market because they couldn't survive the short-term pain 23:47:23 ouch 23:47:29 that was the asian govt bonds thing? 23:47:43 kmc: http://www.amazon.com/When-Genius-Failed-Long-Term-Management/dp/0375758259 you should read this thing, it's really really good 23:47:49 our econ teacher assigned it 23:47:55 yeah I think when I went to work in finance, they gave me a copy of that book and then I failed to read it 23:47:59 naked shorting is where you go around naked except for shorts 23:48:00 they also gave us Liar's Poker which I did read 23:48:01 XD 23:48:12 elliott: yes, it's sort of the complement of shirtcocking 23:48:14 LTCM was a hedge fund in the late 90s making ~20-30% each year by betting that interest rate spreads between countries would converge 23:48:25 using insanely leveraged, arcane option bets 23:48:29 but then the 1998 panic hit 23:48:36 and they started losing a billion dollars a day 23:48:41 and they couldn't get out of their trades 23:49:01 (it was worse because the money had started to dry up, so they had started making riskier bets to keep the same returns, and they were -incredibly- overconfident) 23:49:03 :X 23:49:26 the best part though, was when they had to go to banks to ask for money to try to get out of their mess 23:49:37 the banks looked at their books, their eyes went wide open in terror, and immediately ran for their lives 23:49:42 ... and proceeded to bet against LTCM 23:50:08 haha 23:50:10 blood in the water 23:50:16 yuuuup 23:50:37 in the end the banks did have to bail them out because if they had actually gone bankrupt the unravelling of derivatives would have lost the banks billions 23:50:43 but. the bailout resulted in them owning the hedge fund 23:50:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:51:17 yeah 23:51:22 bailouts are funny 23:51:30 I think in the end they actually made a profit on those derivatives 23:51:39 it's just that, they couldn't survive the short-term drop 23:51:56 like how the workers finally seized the means of production in the US auto industry, if by workers you mean pension fund of retired workers 23:52:00 oh right, I think in the end they had 1 trillion dollars of derivatives on 1 billion in assets 23:52:06 and by production you mean the ability to make crap cars that nobody wants 23:52:10 heh 23:52:18 the paper value of derivatives can be insane 23:52:27 oh burn, quite possibly! 23:52:46 people talked about the CDO market being like hundreds of trillions nominally 23:54:45 yeah, I remember my econ professor talking about examples like 1 million dollar exchange rate derivative contracts 23:54:57 but like the actual practical effect of the derivative was way tinier 2013-04-11: 00:01:22 `seen aftran 00:01:28 not lately; try `seen aftran ever 00:01:33 `seen aftran ever 00:02:04 No output. 00:02:15 wat 00:02:18 `seen aftran ever 00:02:49 No output. 00:09:48 `seen oerjan ever 00:09:52 2013-04-11 00:02:18: `seen aftran ever 00:10:08 `seen HackEgo ever 00:10:12 2013-04-11 00:09:52: 2013-04-11 00:02:18: `seen aftran ever 00:10:28 that sounds like an amuseing loop 00:10:37 `seen santa ever 00:11:08 No output. 00:11:25 *amusing 00:11:43 `seen mauke ever 00:11:51 2011-09-03 07:36:50: when things would be ambiguous otherwise 00:22:53 -!- augur has joined. 00:27:11 that has been awhile 00:44:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:44:25 -!- Bike has joined. 00:45:30 Bike: did you know coq's regular old instance resolution can make typechecking fail to terminate :( 00:46:31 Oh no! 00:47:34 `slist 00:47:35 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:48:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:48:49 why do you keep doing that? 00:48:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:49:07 it hasn't changed in quite awhile 00:49:08 -!- btiffin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:50:09 doesthiswork, er? 00:50:24 the purpose is to notify all those people 00:50:31 that... some webcomic or something has updated 00:50:45 ah that makes lots of sense 00:50:57 this is the grim post-google-reader future 00:50:58 it really doesn't, but that's nice of you to say 00:51:39 man i wish i knew more about economics so i could gloat about bitcoins more 00:51:58 I rescaled the sense to fit these scales 00:52:03 that's the best reason to learn stuff PH 00:52:04 Oh, good move. 00:52:07 kmc: what you fail to realise is that slist has existed for like a year 00:52:18 well I guess you were probably here when it got invented 00:52:19 maybe? 00:52:22 maybe more like two years 00:52:26 it was a slow evolution 00:52:26 except it only became automated recently 00:52:27 `run slist | tr n-za-m a-z 00:52:29 fyvfg: Tnaro ngevd Ntriq Fvben abeggv Strb TungOgurePrefba nybg 00:52:47 and at no point was there a definitive point where it became insane 00:52:57 hm 'tr a-z n-za-m' is easier to pronounce 00:53:02 well actually there were several such points but that's too mundane 00:53:30 aren't like nine of those the same person anyway 00:53:33 so what is olist for? 00:53:41 a different webcomic 00:53:57 sgeo appears to be trying to build this into a commercial empire 00:54:11 shachaf is actually the monster behind the scenes here 00:55:30 shachaf is arthur frayne and shachaf is zardoz 00:55:32 I just use rss to keep track of the 250 webcomics I read 00:56:41 yes but without google reader rss is useless 00:57:13 maybe I should execute plan switch to firefox 00:57:22 beyond 1984, beyond 2001, beyond love, beyond google reader 00:57:32 I don't think all of them depend on google reader 00:57:34 elliott: why 00:58:03 why did google shut down reader anyway 00:58:44 kmc: well chromium likes to eat all my memory and crash because i use hundreds of tabs and maybe firefox is better at that nowadays 00:58:58 kmc: and also, i have trouble keeping track of the aforementioned tabs 00:58:58 ime firefox is laggy in a way that makes my whole wm laggy 00:59:00 ymmv 00:59:04 so tree style tabs or whatever might be nice 00:59:13 are there not those fro chorm 00:59:19 i don't think so 00:59:28 okay there is a "beta" version 00:59:39 it seems like extensions make chromium slow and crashy though 00:59:50 do you actually have literally hundreds of tabs 00:59:50 astral aves is a pretty good webcomic http://astralaves.com/ 00:59:53 -!- monqy has joined. 00:59:56 also I would like to maybe block javascript by default for performance reasons and I think firefox has better options in that regard 00:59:59 Phantom_Hoover: yes 01:00:06 how do you think 01:00:07 well 01:00:10 how do you count tabs in chromium 01:00:20 okay there is an extension for it 01:00:22 doesthiswork: that's kind of an unfortunate font but i'll check it out, thanks 01:00:23 ahh, is this about the elliott problem 01:00:25 let me run this untrusted JS code on my computer so I can tell you 01:00:31 tabcounter+ 01:00:59 currently i have 55 tabs open 01:01:02 but this is a "light" session 01:01:05 only started recently 01:01:08 -roll- 01:01:09 It (shouldn't) be a matter of running untrusted JS being bad, just running untrusted JS in a position of privilege 01:01:11 usually i have at least twice the windows 01:01:18 and so far none of my tabs have had their titles becomes unreadable 01:01:31 bike: normally it is an actual comic, this is just a short interlude 01:01:40 well you're running it in your browser which is your OS so that's impossible sgeo 01:01:44 doesthiswork: i figured. 01:01:53 idk how you can live with multiple windows 01:01:58 kmc: what WM do you use 01:02:19 Sgeo: um do you trust your browser not to privilege any code at all 01:02:26 no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. 01:02:39 the false knight on the road 01:02:58 ok tree style tabs for chroem looks useless 01:03:09 it's literally a drop down menu you have to click in the toolbar to use lol 01:03:15 nice 01:03:23 I said shouldn't. Practical realities of bugs aside, etc. 01:03:33 ok there's a variant that 01:03:35 spawns a new window for it 01:03:39 imo fuck this 01:03:56 elliott 1 technology 5 01:04:17 just use firefox and get it over with, or does their variant suck too 01:04:30 everything sucks in elliottworld. 01:05:04 Even suckless? 01:05:11 well yes hes picky about trivialities that much is obvious. those ui concerns are real but the underlying issue is that he --sgeo.............................................. 01:05:34 --mismanages his tabs horrendously 01:05:44 * Sgeo isn't allowed to make jokes? 01:05:49 nope 01:05:53 sorry 01:05:54 the real issue is that monqy cannot imagine being good enough at browsing the internet that you have hundreds of interesting tabs because he is a sad, pathetic person 01:05:58 and i feel sorry for him! 01:07:26 kids 01:07:27 kids 01:07:30 you both suck 01:08:01 does everything suck in phantomhooverworld too 01:08:20 only the hoovers 01:08:30 makes sense 01:09:51 also most kinds of pump 01:13:51 -!- Gregor has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? imo no | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:14:32 Gregor: that's barley an improvement 01:14:45 -!- Gregor has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? imo needs moar saurkraut | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:15:34 *sauerkraut 01:15:40 acid cabbage 01:15:46 -!- Gregor has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? imo needs moar sour krauts | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:28:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:29:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:29:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:30:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:32:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:32:40 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 01:32:40 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:33:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:41:59 help 01:42:00 what am i 01:42:16 rye 01:42:22 a letter 01:42:22 hi shachaf 01:42:29 shachaf: you seem to be a verb 01:42:34 `run slist | r13 # hth 01:42:36 fyvfg: Gnaro ngevd Atriq Svben abeggv Ftrb GungBgureCrefba nybg 01:43:17 -!- shachaf has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? 'course i am! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:45:04 so 01:45:06 monqy and kmc: hey you know the thing on "internet forums" where there are old threads and they tell you "don't bump old threads"?? 01:45:08 is bitcoin still fucked 01:45:10 what's with that 01:45:24 if an old thread is relevant why shouldn't i post in it...... 01:46:02 it varies from community to community, and also what the thread is and what you're contributing and if the thread's completely outdated by new thread and so on 01:46:22 isbitcoinstillfucked.com 01:46:39 yes but it seems to be "kind of dogmatic" and across a lot of communities.. 01:46:45 if you make that site i will pay you 01:46:50 in bitcoin 01:47:00 it even seems that people would rather have you start a whole new thread rather than post to the old one 01:47:20 bitcoin has always been fucked, and at war with eurasia. 01:47:22 well maybe they heard "don't bump" and didn't understand the reasons 01:47:29 because usually people start reading a thread at the beginning 01:47:39 well but i'm talking about the "administrators" or whatever they're called 01:48:04 if it defaulted to the very last post when the thread got too old people probably wouldn't complain as much 01:48:13 and sometimes "they're all like this thread is locked" and 01:48:20 what perpetuates this 01:49:01 maybe the admins picked it up from the forums they were on as a kiddo 01:49:10 they heard "dont bump" and took it to heart........ 01:49:11 probably 01:49:17 but why.......... 01:49:29 well if you go back far enough they probably had their reasons at some point 01:49:33 balls & bollards 01:49:34 people are the devil 01:49:41 monqy excluded 01:49:47 =/ 01:49:58 "do you want to be the devil too" 01:50:09 sure why not 01:50:14 fine 01:50:19 people are the devil 01:50:38 [conspicuous nonexclusion of monqy] 01:50:46 Does that mean Satanists worship people? 01:50:55 Weight Watchers personal assessment seems to assume I want to lose weight 01:50:59 And have tried losing weight before 01:51:06 Thanks, Weight Watchers 01:51:10 what do humanitarians do 01:52:18 shachaf: Because it takes time to load the conversation into their memory. if your post can be isolated into it's own thread then they do not have that problem. If the thread is recent enough it already is in their memory so they have no problem with another post in that thread 01:55:03 Even with short threads? 01:55:16 3 posts? 01:55:30 how short is short? 01:57:42 What's that thread that was a decade between posts? 01:58:05 Weight Watchers personal assessment seems to assume I want to lose weight <-- does weight watchers even do the opposite? 01:58:12 `quote thread 01:58:14 708) the allocation is done by the "Dynamic" in DRAM before that we used SRAM where everything was preallocated in the factory olsner: So what's this SDRAM then? fizzie: synchronized, it's for multithreading 01:58:17 itt the weight loss industrial complex 01:58:27 shachaf: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImAHumanitarian hth 01:58:27 olsner.troll.moed++ 01:58:54 What if my weight is perfect and I just want to watch it because it's so good? 01:59:04 Narcissist. 01:59:45 oerjan: does that link say "im a humanitarian i eat humans.........".................... 01:59:53 @karma olsner.troll.moed 01:59:53 olsner.troll.moed has a karma of 1 02:00:05 shachaf: MAYBE 02:00:11 (mostly.) 02:00:29 @@ @run length . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:00:32 2310 02:00:43 @@ @run length . filter ("moed"`isSuffixOf`) $ @show @karma-all 02:00:46 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 02:00:46 with actual ty... 02:00:49 @@ @run length . filter ("moed"`isSuffixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:00:52 0 02:00:55 Hmm. 02:01:01 @@ @run length . filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:04 5 02:01:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:01:09 @@ @run filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:11 [" \"adrake.j4cbo.moed\" 1"," \"olsner.troll.moed\" 1"," \"rbraun.m... 02:01:22 @@ @run drop 2 . filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:24 [" \"rbraun.mberwer.moed\" 1"," \"Slizyboy.moed\" 1"," \"ttuttle... 02:01:27 @@ @run drop 4 . filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:29 [" \"ttuttle.cannibal.moed\" 1"] 02:03:35 I guess lambdabot spent some time around that other channel. 02:17:39 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:18:26 that ttuttle does look like a humanitarian 02:20:03 -!- impomatic has left. 02:20:31 * Sgeo has still not migrated away from Google Reader :( 02:20:46 oops? 02:27:29 me either but i did download my feed list 02:27:34 so what should one use instead 02:28:06 #esoteric 02:28:07 Nothing here 02:28:34 see 02:29:03 `run echo esoteric | tr a-z n-ma-z 02:29:05 tr: range-endpoints of `n-m' are in reverse collating sequence order 02:29:09 `run echo esoteric | tr a-z n-za-m 02:29:11 rfbgrevp 02:30:00 kmc: My father used to use Google Reader and is using feedly.com now. 02:47:42 I'm trying to find something else to use. 03:00:51 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:30:19 `slist 03:30:21 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:31:32 sgeolist 03:31:41 like craigslist but it's about things Sgeo is interested in 03:32:13 oh man i would, well, not subscribe to that list but it wouldn't matter because i'd hear all about it anyway 03:32:36 p. much 03:34:14 ~? 03:34:25 .? 03:34:33 ,? 03:34:42 (trolling for bots) 03:34:47 )? 03:34:55 ) ? 03:34:56 Sgeo: ? 03:35:13 That was somewhat unexpected 03:35:24 found one 03:35:29 ) fungot 03:35:30 kmc: |value error: fungot 03:35:40 that used to be a lot more fun 03:35:49 oh fungot isn't even here, what gives 03:36:22 fizzie gives 03:36:25 and fizzie takes away 03:36:32 run sgeolist | r13 irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/# hth 03:38:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:38:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 03:38:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:39:07 so close to making any sense 03:39:28 hm HackEgo can't access the internet directly can it 03:39:36 it would be fun to run an irc client in HackEgo and connect to freenode 03:40:27 /bin/xzibit 03:40:56 heh 03:41:09 xz --ibit 03:41:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:42:40 apparently there was a "Where are They Now?" episode of Pimp My Ride where they checked in to see how many of the tricked out cars had been crashed by their owners 03:42:54 wonderful! 03:57:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:14:35 `slist 04:14:38 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:17:49 is `slist another omic? 04:18:06 i read that as nomic 04:18:30 I meant is as comic but nomic is fun too 04:18:56 i read it as nomic and i dont even know what a nomic is???????????Help 04:19:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic 04:28:33 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:37:05
04:40:44 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:54:34 ▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅▅▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅▅▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅▅▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅ ▆▆▆▆▅▄▄▄▃ ▃ ▃ ▁▂▇▇▇▇▆▅▅▅▃ ▃ ▃ ▁▂▆▆▆▆▅▄▄▄▃ ▃ ▃ ▁▂▇▇▇▇▆▅▅▅▃ ▃ ▃ ▃ 04:54:43 r u ok 04:54:46 yep 04:55:00 you? 04:55:05 yeah i'm alright 04:55:07 cool 04:55:26 hey everyone 04:55:29 hichaf 04:55:29 that is an interesting language. do you call it amplitude? 04:55:33 i'm not so al right.. 04:55:37 oh no 04:55:42 :( 04:55:57 maybe i should see a doctor 04:56:01 what kind 04:56:15 philosophy?? 04:56:20 what kinds are there 04:56:34 nephrologist, opthamologist, gastroenterologist 05:06:34 Psychologist? 05:07:39 shachaf: what kind of not all right, i meant, also 05:11:32 -!- monqy has joined. 05:11:46 Entomologist? 05:12:44 well i mostly meant to break up the monotony of social interaction "r u ok" "yep you?" "yeah i'm alright" "cool" with something else. think of it as an art piece 05:13:23 but as it happens i'm also kind of sick recently, but it's getting better mostly, i think 05:13:42 famous last words 05:13:57 maybe i have tuberculosis 05:14:09 i hear that's up and coming 05:15:10 that would suck 05:15:30 Probably lupus. 05:15:45 Probably. 05:17:57 `run python -c $'import math,encodings\nb=" "+"".join(unichr(c) for c in range(9601,9609))\ns=""\nfor i in range(0,100):\n x=i/5.\n y=math.sin(x)+math.sin(3*x)+math.sin(5*x)\n s+=b[int((y/6+0.5)*len(b))]\nprint encodings.utf_8.encode(s)[0]' 05:17:58 ​▄▆▇▇▅▄▄▅▅▅▄▄▅▇▇▆▃▁▁▂▃▄▃▃▃▃▄▄▂▁▁▃▆▇▇▆▄▄▅▅▅▄▄▅▆▇▇▄▂▁▁▃▄▄▃▃▃▄▄▃▁▁▂▄▇▇▆▅▄▄▅▅▅▄▄▆▇▇▅▃▁▁▂▄▄▃▃▃▃▄▃▂▁▁▃▆▇▇▅▄ 05:19:00 cute 05:19:35 "cute" -- ⓒ Ⓒ © monqy 05:19:39 Now make it do a square wave. 05:19:45 Proper-like. 05:22:14 `run python -c $'import math,encodings\nb=" "+"".join(unichr(c) for c in range(9601,9609))\ns=""\nfor i in range(0,100):\n x,y=i/5.,0\n for j in range(1,99,2):\n y+=math.sin(j*x)/j\n s+=b[int((y/6+0.5)*len(b))]\nprint encodings.utf_8.encode(s)[0]' 05:22:15 kmc: It looks like OS X v. latest turned off the cups web UI by default. 05:22:15 ​▄▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▅▅▅▅▅ 05:23:30 Hmm, given the sampling rate I think the one harmonic there actually is the whole square wave. 05:28:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:28:30 shachaf: good for them 05:28:38 Jafet: nice 05:59:31 -!- fungot has joined. 06:01:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:06:45 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:08:25 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 06:08:30 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 06:08:30 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 06:08:38 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:08:42 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 06:10:03 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:13:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:16:32 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:18:11 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:18:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:19:05 const unsigned long main[] = { 0xc7e68948c7ffff31, 0x24310f00b195e206, 0xd231f88902460001, 0xe9eb050f03b2 }; 06:20:17 kmc: main is usually a function 06:20:23 (this is like when they say the title of the film in the film) 06:20:42 Is that meant to have an rdtsc? 06:20:59 Oh, wait. 06:21:08 does it work shachaf 06:21:22 Works here 06:21:24 I don't know? 06:21:56 it should do the same thing as perl -e 'while(1){print"\xe2\x95".("\xb1","\xb2")[rand 2]}' 06:22:11 It does 06:22:37 It seems very biased. 06:23:03 As in, mostly /s, with occasional chunks of mixed /s and \s. 06:23:19 also i'm blind now, help 06:23:46 Even though rdtsc has an 'r' in it, I don't think it returns random numbers. 06:26:08 :< 06:26:16 seems good enough here 06:26:33 we do a syscall between rdtsc calls 06:27:01 Even so. 06:27:30 strange 06:27:44 How small can you make a Linux "yes" executable? 06:27:46 using the timing between things to generate random bits? 06:29:02 shachaf: do you mean the size of the whole ELF file, or do you allow some other exe formats, or do you mean only the instructions 06:29:05 for the former, see http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html 06:29:09 Fiora: yeah 06:29:15 oooh. that's a cool trick 06:29:20 http://sprunge.us/JBJW -- sure, that *could* be the output of an unbiased rng, but on this box it seems to have a larger than expected number of runs of alternating 0s and 1s. 06:29:33 I know. 06:29:39 OK, let's say just the size of the instructions. 06:30:09 kmc: maybe for better randomness you could, like, sum a bunch of rdtsc results and pick the low bit? 06:30:12 Fiora: that's interesting 06:30:19 er i meant 06:30:21 fizzie: that's interesting 06:30:25 SORRY FIORA 06:30:31 -_- 06:30:31 Fiora: yeah, I wanted to keep it as small as possible though :) 06:30:43 I wonder what other terrible things you could use for entropy 06:30:50 Fiora: mooz's Befunge-93 interpreter on the TI-86 used the Z80's R register (some sort of a RAM refresh counter) to implement ?. 06:31:18 yeah, that was a common ti calc trick 06:31:25 "timing between things" in general is I guess what mostly feeds /dev/random's pool. 06:31:49 the galaksija uses the R register as a framebuffer pointer during the video routine 06:32:07 and just executes garbage instructions (which also happen to be string literals for the BASIC interpreter, gotta use those bytes!) 06:32:28 honestly I'm happy if my maze program gives different, weird results on different machines 06:32:47 The Hunt the Wumpus Befunge port quite often ended up having a long run of being unable to create the dungeon. 06:32:52 What if it makes people go blind? 06:34:17 hope not 06:34:20 seems p. unlikely 06:34:29 http://codepad.org/FghOek0i am I missing something and not using the least significant bit? 06:35:12 maybe some other bit is actually more random 06:35:40 hm if you have invariant TSC and your CPU clocks down to an fraction of half of the top speed 06:35:43 an fraction 06:35:55 you see where i'm going with this 06:36:00 would that affect the randomness of the low bit? 06:36:19 movl $0xb195e2, (%rsi) what does this do o_O 06:36:40 stores that 32-bit constant at the address in %rsi 06:36:43 Probably related to that codepoint it prints out? 06:36:47 Those aren't /s. 06:36:48 but like, why? 06:36:56 that's the UTF-8 encoding for one of the characters 06:36:59 ooooh 06:37:00 backwards 06:37:05 sorry, I missed the context of your question 06:37:18 I wonder if rdtscp would be better. 06:37:20 wasn't sure if you were objecting to AT&T syntax (which would be p. valid) 06:37:27 oh! sorry, I wasn't 06:37:37 I'm more used to AT&T syntax than Intel syntax. :-( 06:37:41 does that make me a bad person 06:38:09 me too :/ 06:38:28 geez having more experience with one syntax than another doesn't make you a bad person... XD 06:39:06 anyway time to tweet this (that's the cool way to distribute c programs) and then sleep 06:40:05 goodnighties 06:40:28 `gccrun 'const unsigned long main[] = { 0xc7e68948c7ffff31, 0x24310f00b195e206, 0xd231f88902460001, 0xe9eb050f03b2 };' 06:40:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gccrun: not found 06:40:53 `run echo 'const unsigned long main[] = { 0xc7e68948c7ffff31, 0x24310f00b195e206, 0xd231f88902460001, 0xe9eb050f03b2 };' > maze.c && gcc -o maze maze.c && ./maze 06:41:05 ​╱╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╱╱╲╱╱╲╲╲╲╱╱╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╱╲╱╲╱╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╱╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╱╱╲╱╱╱╱╲╱╱╲╱╲╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╱╱╲╲╲╱╱╲╱╲╱╱╱ 06:41:06 oh. there's no nice way to change rdtsc to rdstcp, they're different sizes :< 06:41:12 welp 06:41:15 awesome 06:41:23 new favorite program 06:41:24 0F31 -> 0F01F9 /7 06:42:01 Fiora: rdtscp because of the fence? 06:42:26 I was wondering if maybe rdtscp might give better results? I'm not sure 06:42:34 good night all :) 06:42:52 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:43:03 kmc: ♞ 06:43:09 Fiora: I tried rdtscp and it also has the / bias. 06:44:19 huh. is / the 0 or the 1? 06:44:51 hmm. maybe the parity of the result might be more random than the lowest bit? 06:45:34 that's super weird though, I'd be really curious about why that's happening 06:45:52 kmc: what's this "olsner.troll.moed"? 06:46:19 Referring to that quote, I assume. 06:47:34 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:48:22 kmc: I get what looks like good randomness looking at bit 2 (i.e. inserting shr $2, %eax after the rdtsc) 06:48:52 If I shift by one I still get long runs of /, and in addition I get some long runs of \ 06:49:57 I get all sorts of other patterns shifting by other amounts. 06:52:14 what about popcnt(rdtsc)&1? 06:52:19 does that work maybe? 06:53:13 Now I have to figure out how to popcnt. 06:53:57 -!- fftw has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:54:10 I guess the loop usually takes a not-completely-random number of cycles to run 06:54:56 Oh, I can just popcnt %eax, %eax? 06:55:06 That seems to work too. 06:55:29 olsner: With a syscall in the middle? 06:55:52 -!- sivoais has joined. 06:58:02 sure, that mixes it up a little, or maybe it usually goes through a fast path that just moves a byte into a buffer and moves on 07:01:51 yay for x86 extensions having every instruction ever :3 07:02:56 I see leading zero count but not trailing zero count?! 07:03:17 Oh, even LZCNT is AMD-only. 07:05:33 Oh, that's bsr. 07:06:24 I should learn how x86 instruction encoding works. 07:07:21 there are probably better things to waste brainspace on :) 07:07:55 bsr/bsf can do lzcnt/tzcnt basically? 07:08:11 the main difference with the actual lzcnt/tzcnt instructions is they have defined behavior if the input is zero, I think 07:08:23 Right, I didn't know and/or forgot about bsr. 07:08:33 LZCNT was added by AMD in SSE4a, TZCNT is added in BMI1 (which also nicely includes lzcnt for consistency, so now amd/intel are equal again) 07:08:35 There's always the thing with de Bruijn indices. 07:08:41 -!- fftw has joined. 07:08:52 tzcnt has actually a really fun weird property 07:08:53 Er, de Bruijn sequences. 07:08:58 its opcode is actually equal to "rep bsf" 07:10:24 so you can use tzcnt in code that runs on older cpus, and it will execute fine as long as your code doesn't rely on the specifics of tzcnt (like defined behavior at 0) 07:10:39 it makes valgrind choke though XD 07:11:11 So does VEX 07:11:20 Or at least it did when I tried it. 07:11:57 yeah, but like, "rep bsf" was a thing that worked on earlier cpus, so it's not like it's actually a new instruction 07:12:00 at least sort of? 07:12:01 it's weird 07:13:01 Well, Intel has never cared about backwards compatibility. 07:13:28 oh right, LZCNT does the same thing. LZCNT is "rep bsr" 07:13:33 Are you still supposed to do rep ret? 07:13:34 but that one is deceptive and evil 07:13:48 because, like. "tzcnt" gives the same result as "bsf", I think, when the input isn't 0 07:14:06 but "lzcnt" gives the number of leading zeroes, while "bsr" gives (bits in register) - (number of leading zeroes), I think 07:14:09 I'm pretty sure bsf also has defined behaviour on zero (ZF = 1, undefined value in the register), it just might not be behaviour you'd like. 07:14:43 GCC compiles ffs(i) into bsf + cmovz. 07:14:44 oh. yeah, you're right 07:14:58 it's the result that's undefined not behavior, sorry 07:15:15 And rep ret isn't in the latest AMD optimilization manual any more. 07:15:57 And one manual in-between had replaced it with a three-byte encoding of "ret 0", anyway. 07:16:12 (I suppose perhaps because that's more legal?) 07:16:33 the x86 prefixes have always kind of confused me >_< 07:17:05 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:17:10 are x86 instructions monoids 07:17:58 Should `? monoid say "Monoids are just x86 instructions" instead? 07:18:42 `? monoids 07:18:46 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 07:18:47 `? monoid 07:18:49 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 07:18:53 Heh. 07:19:33 -!- ousia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:19:38 speaking of BMI, pdep and pext look like really really cool instructions 07:19:47 they're like, that weird kind of instruction that -looks- raelly cool, but I can't figure out how to use for anything <.< 07:20:31 Oh no, instructions that aren't in my intel\ combined\ manual.pdf 07:20:35 Do I need to download a new one? 07:20:42 http://download.intel.com/products/processor/manual/325383.pdf 07:20:55 the manual doesn't include unreleased instructions (stuff that's in the SDE, but not in released CPUs) 07:21:05 so I'm guessing when haswell comes out they'll add in the avx2 stuff and all that? 07:21:13 That file is 6MB! 07:21:18 moving it from one pdf to another I guess 07:21:22 oh wait no that's the wrong one >_< 07:21:25 http://download-software.intel.com/sites/default/files/m/8/a/1/8/4/36945-319433-011.pdf 07:21:32 sorry, I linked to the regular instruction reference -_- 07:21:37 Better. Only 2MB. 07:21:40 I can probably manage 2MB. 07:22:01 -!- btiffin has joined. 07:22:14 There should be a law where you have to expand all the acronyms you use. 07:22:24 I'll call it the AEL[Acronym Expansion Law]. 07:22:45 glwt 07:22:52 XD 07:23:01 SDE -> Software Development Emulator 07:23:16 it's a super cool thing where you just go sde -- ./program args and it'll magically run the program as if it had all the instructions 07:23:26 with dynamic recompilation and magic 07:23:50 Sounds like fun. 07:24:05 shachaf: sorry, joking. gtwt, good luck with that 07:24:45 Fiora: I'm sure pdep and pext will be well-received by the thousands (if not millions) INTERCAL implementers, for implementing SELECT and MINGLE. 07:24:50 XDDDDD 07:24:59 what do those do that pdep/pext will help with? 07:25:20 SELECT *is* pext, I think. 07:25:34 oh wow 07:25:40 Maybe bit order details are different, I don't know. 07:26:22 But it takes bits from X that correspond to set bits in Y, and packs them to the low end. 07:27:00 And MINGLE interleaves bits from X and Y, in alternating order, which sounds like something pdep could help with. 07:27:10 (pdep+pdep+or, or something.) 07:28:56 curious newbie question; esolang being what it is, ..., what development platforms are people here using for work? 07:29:30 AIUI, they're the building blocks of almost all INTERCAL maths, since they're the only binary operators; AND, OR and XOR are all unary. 07:29:48 I'm building GNU/Linux based machines for placement in hotel rooms. bash, python, php, c, c++, umm, you know Linux land 07:30:10 http://palms.princeton.edu/system/files/IEEE_TC09_NewBasisForShifters.pdf oh fizzie here was the paper I found the other day 07:30:16 it's apparently related to the pdep/pext stuff 07:30:50 it's basically a new type of shifty-bit circuit that's a little higher latency but can do all kinds of crazy arbitrary bit shuffles (like pdep, pext, and stuff) with fewer gates than a normal shift unit 07:31:13 (The unary bitwise ops apply on every two consecutive bits, so if you want regular A&B, you need to mingle A and B, then perform the operation, then SELECT every other bit.) 07:31:24 the author's done a lot of stuff related to stuff like this, she's really awesome 07:31:38 and is apparently a wonderful simd dork 07:32:00 "SIMD dork" is a nice term. 07:32:17 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:33:14 I think that is an accurate description of me -_- 07:33:53 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:35:01 As for the at-work question, I suppose most of the code our speech group is involved in is in C++ (dirty parts of the recognizer), MATLAB (research code), Python (glue) and Perl (more glue). 07:36:19 (Some of the Perl might not be entirely glue.) 07:37:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:38:54 fizzie: thanks 07:39:01 I guess the pdep/pext stuff might be squee material for people forced to work with stuff like RGB565 07:39:11 or other weird bit-level-packed data formats 07:39:57 Bit permutations for crypto, perhaps? 07:40:17 are there formats that do that nowadays? 07:40:30 I remember reading that it was a big deal in DES, but that, well, this kind of comes a little late for that XD 07:40:32 I don't really know about modern algorithms. 07:41:26 I know rotates are still a big thing in hashes and stuff 07:41:37 and AES uses table lookups to do GF(2) multiplication on bytes I think 07:41:42 I have a feeling AES is quite byte-oriented. 07:41:44 or something like that (sboxes or something) 07:42:01 but you can apparently do those with pshufb (there's actually a really cool paper on timing-attack-immune pshufb AES) 07:42:10 and of course now it's all sorta silly because of AES-NI 07:42:16 -!- ousia has joined. 07:44:11 http://shiftleft.org/papers/vector_aes/vector_aes.pdf oh yay here it is 07:48:11 nice name 07:49:41 ? 07:50:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:50:40 shiftleft 07:51:01 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 08:04:52 * Fiora yawns 08:05:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:05:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:09:42 -!- btiffin has left. 08:14:33 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:15:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:20:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:32:39 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:52:48 `slist 08:52:49 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:58:41 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:05:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:07:21 Is there a term for when you have two sets, and one of them is a subset of the other, but you don't know which? 09:08:36 the smaller one's got to be the subset, right? 09:10:49 Fiora: Well, they might be the same sizze. 09:10:54 s/z// 09:13:08 if they're equal it still counts as a subset 09:13:30 but I don't think there is a term for uncertain subsetyness 09:13:54 Taneb: It's called two-sets-and-one's-a-subset-but-I-dunno-which, HTH, HAND. 09:14:36 ...right 09:14:54 Fiora, you might not know the size, or they might be infinite? 09:16:33 oooh 09:16:36 that makes sense 09:18:23 The reason I want to know this is kinda really stupid 09:18:32 is it about ixset 09:18:37 No 09:18:46 is it about monoids 09:18:49 monoids are easy 09:18:50 ...No 09:18:55 It's about Venn diagrams 09:19:27 is it about hugs 09:19:28 @hug Taneb 09:19:29 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 09:19:34 hugs? 09:19:50 I want to be able to describe annuloid (?) Venn diagrams 09:19:56 Fiora, tender embraces between two people 09:20:16 Taneb: what i do with my tender is none of your business 09:20:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:20:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 09:20:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:21:43 Maybe you could use some sort of a symbol that's a combination of ⊆ and ⊇ -- a bit like ≶ but with the dash too -- to describe your situation. There's for example ⫓, ⫔, ⫗ or ⫘. 09:22:00 fizzie++ 09:23:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:23:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:24:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 09:24:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:24:14 Oh, there's ⋚, I just missed it. 09:24:35 Wonder how much use the "less than, equal to or greater than" operator gets. 09:25:18 "it's probably a real number" 09:25:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:25:22 "that's all we know" 09:26:15 > ≻ ⊱ oh no it's curling up 09:26:15 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 09:26:23 lambdabot: That's not what I meant. 09:27:16 (Unicode: the best thing for people on sick leave?) 09:31:25 fizzie: presumably ⋚ is the unicody way of writing <=> from Perl 09:34:01 As usual, there's both ⋚ and ⋛. (If they do have the semantics of the Perl <=>, perhaps the other one could be reversed.) 09:34:43 I would *hope* that ⋚ is a relation. 09:34:48 (Which <=> isn't.) 09:36:16 (⋚) :: Ord a => a -> a -> Bool; _ ⋚ _ = True 09:36:25 D had <>= which basically meant that both sides can't be NaN, IIRC 09:36:48 Not "x <>= y" ---> "x = x <> y"? 09:37:02 D has monoids? 09:37:06 x !<>= x was equivalent to isnan(x) 09:37:39 -!- carado has joined. 09:41:35 > let (<=>) = ((pred . fromEnum) .) . compare in zipWith (<=>) [1,2,3] [3,2,1] 09:41:37 [-1,0,1] 09:41:39 Yay. 09:43:30 > let (<=>) = (signum.).(-) in zipWith (<=>) [1,2,3] [3,2,1] 09:43:32 [-1,0,1] 09:44:49 > let (<=>) = (signum.).(-) in maxBound <=> (-1 :: Int) 09:44:51 -1 09:46:51 Still needs -2 for isNaN anyway 09:47:47 I just posted to a Haskell mailing list about how people weren't giving NaNs the respect they deserve. 09:56:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:57:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:59:43 Taneb: Unasked as in unspoken. 09:59:50 You could be an acting acting teacher. 09:59:54 Or student. 10:00:20 I have considered it, oddly 10:00:26 Which? 10:00:36 Being an acting student 10:00:47 Why did you consider it oddly? 10:01:09 I sort of did a headstand then asked all my friends whether I should 10:01:29 * Fiora glances up, hugs Taneb 10:01:32 What about your #esoteric pals? 10:01:43 Fiora is your friend too! 10:01:54 I hadn't met Fiora back then 10:02:00 And I was in a hurry, with no time to IRC 10:02:03 None of us had. 10:02:24 `help 10:02:24 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 10:02:40 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:02:50 `? d-modules 10:02:52 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 10:03:02 Is that true? 10:03:16 At least half of it is 10:03:24 Perhaps even three quarters. 10:03:43 You invented them, and they're modules over the ring of differential operators, but they're unjust? 10:03:54 (closer to 9/16) 10:03:58 @wn justice 10:03:58 *** "justice" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 10:03:59 justice 10:03:59 n 1: the quality of being just or fair [syn: {justice}, 10:03:59 {justness}] [ant: {injustice}, {unjustness}] 10:03:59 2: judgment involved in the determination of rights and the 10:04:00 [7 @more lines] 10:04:02 @more 10:04:03 assignment of rewards and punishments 10:04:04 3: a public official authorized to decide questions brought 10:04:06 before a court of justice [syn: {judge}, {justice}, {jurist}] 10:04:07 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:04:08 4: the United States federal department responsible for 10:04:10 enforcing federal laws (including the enforcement of all 10:04:12 civil rights legislation); created in 1870 [syn: {Department 10:04:14 `? justice 10:04:15 of Justice}, {Justice Department}, {Justice}, {DoJ}] 10:04:18 justice? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:04:29 `learn Justice is just behavior or treatment. 10:04:34 I knew that. 10:04:36 I'll just go with Google define:'s definition. 10:04:41 -!- jix has joined. 10:05:03 Justice is just an endofunctor in the category of morals 10:05:10 Sometimes justice is just ice. 10:05:30 sometimes monoids are just mono ids 10:05:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 10:05:37 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 10:05:59 `?hh conspirabiology 10:06:02 cohnspihrahbiohlohgy ihs whehre mohth cohlouhrihngs fohrm a doht mahtrihx dihsplay to sehnd you suhblihmihnahl mehssahgehs. 10:06:42 shachaf, D-modules are just modules over rings of differential operators, and someone called M. G. M. van Doorn wrote an article on them which is cited by Wikipedia 10:07:01 `?hh siberia 10:07:03 Sihbehria ihs the cahpihtahl ohf Fihnlahnd. Iht's whehre the Fiehlds Mehdahl wahs fihrst syhnthehsihsehd. 10:07:18 `? sgeolang 10:07:20 sgeolang currently is either J or Io. 10:07:22 Wow, outdated. 10:07:31 `? monqy 10:07:39 The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 10:07:51 @ask monqy i love friendship monqy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10:07:52 Consider it noted. 10:08:21 `? comonad 10:08:23 Comonads are just monads in the dual category. 10:08:24 `? comonads 10:08:26 Comonads are just monads in the dual category. 10:08:37 What! 10:08:42 There's a pluraliszer in `? 10:08:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:08:50 `? gazspacho 10:08:52 gazspacho is a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 10:08:58 `? ngevds 10:09:03 ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 10:09:10 whoa dude 10:09:11 Taneb: 10:09:15 Taneb++ 10:09:18 brilliant 10:09:21 `? Fiora 10:09:23 Fiora is a freakin' vriskapologist. 10:09:43 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:09:45 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:11:55 `? oerjan 10:11:58 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian. 10:12:09 `? cooerjan 10:12:11 cooerjan? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:12:16 `? coöerjan 10:12:18 coöerjan? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:12:28 whoaoerjan 10:14:27 can we please change mine :< 10:14:37 gopher it 10:14:47 `learn Fiora isn't a freakin' vriskapologist. 10:14:51 I knew that. 10:15:03 `? Fiora 10:15:05 Fiora isn't a freakin' vriskapologist. 10:15:11 `learn Fiora this is a test 10:15:19 I knew that. 10:15:21 `? Fiora 10:15:23 Fiora this is a test 10:15:26 oh, cool 10:16:51 you can't leave it like that ........................ 10:17:48 `learn Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. 10:17:53 I knew that. 10:18:28 wow i thought you were fructose :'( 10:18:32 how disappointing 10:20:39 but sucrose contains fructose! 10:22:13 i thought you were all fructose 10:22:51 high Fiora corn syrup 10:23:16 what's a vriskapologist anyway? 10:23:46 `? Fiora 10:23:56 Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. 10:23:57 ais523: Fiora is. 10:23:59 much better -_- 10:24:25 shachaf: that doesn't answer the question, and might not even be true because she changed it 10:24:50 ais523: "Vriska" is a character in a comic strip that some people here read. 10:24:54 ah right 10:25:08 I read some comic strips occasionally, but not that one 10:25:51 Do you follow `olist? 10:25:56 We can put you on `olist. 10:26:09 We can remember it for you wholesale. 10:26:15 `run ls bin/*list* 10:26:17 bin/emptylist \ bin/instalist \ bin/list \ bin/listen \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/pbflistdeluxe \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist 10:26:19 I never set it to that to begin with, it was someone teasing me 10:26:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 10:26:24 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:26:44 We can put you on `pbflist or even on `pbflistdeluxe 10:26:54 Or `smlist. Everyone loves super mega comics. 10:27:04 shachaf: I'm not a fan of the `list notification just because I might not be in the channel at the time, so I'm going to check the site anyway 10:27:08 Most of the personal wisdoms might be third-party-set. 10:27:14 and also I often don't want to look at the comics the instant they update 10:27:29 but rather, when I'm not at work and have some free time 10:27:38 But what if they update once every few months? 10:27:38 and have nothing better to do 10:27:43 Do you want to check them every day? 10:27:49 shachaf: then I'll likely check once every few years :) 10:28:02 With `pbflistdeluxe, you don't need to be in the channel. 10:28:05 We get the message to you. 10:28:18 there /are/ some things that could interestingly do with updates, such as new IOCCC s 10:28:22 * IOCCCs 10:28:30 Feel free to make an ioccclist. 10:28:31 but we normally put those in the topic because everyone here should theoretically be interested in them 10:28:38 Oh. 10:28:54 I thought the topic was for jokes and off-topic things. 10:28:57 I'd like to be put on the elerlist, please. 10:29:01 should we put the UCC in the topic, incidentally? it's not an exact fit for the channel, but I imagine many people here would be interested in it 10:29:02 For that matter, that's what I thought the channel was for. 10:29:12 Many people here are. 10:29:22 But who hasn't heard of it already? 10:29:27 shachaf: well the channel is a community for people with common interests 10:29:49 it turns out that people who like esolangs generally tend to like various other things too 10:31:09 -!- Taneb has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? 'course i am! | Underhanded C Contest: http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 10:32:12 shachaf: fwiw, topic notifications moderately indirectly lead to me gaining a lot of money 10:32:16 so they're not exactly useless 10:32:32 and nothing prevents them coexisting with random garbage 10:33:07 ais523: They do? 10:33:15 How does that work? 10:33:34 shachaf: well, most of the people here are interested in at least one esolang 10:33:38 many people in more 10:33:59 It was a toss-up between taking Economics and Drama, and I ended up doing Latin 10:34:05 and yet, we can sustain discussions aout other things for a while with many people participating, and occasionally the occasional person complaining in a passive-aggressive way with everyone else ignoring them 10:34:32 I meant the money thing. 10:35:01 shachaf: well it was about a competition with prize money offered 10:35:20 allegedly a result in computability theory, but it was actually an esoprogamming competition in disguise 10:35:35 Ah. 10:35:38 (I suspect the reason I won may have been because other people attempting didn't realise it was about esoprogramming) 10:35:58 What was the goal of the competition? 10:36:26 A new kind of computability theory 10:37:24 Taneb: it was the 2,3 machine thing 10:37:51 if you've somehow managed to miss the story, I can go over it again 10:37:59 Nah, I know the story 10:38:08 I thought you did 10:38:13 which is why I was surprised at your question 10:38:49 I was just imagining something more like the IOCCC or UCC 10:39:21 right 10:40:02 Did anyone ever come up with a less controversial proof? 10:41:50 I don't think the proof is the controversial part 10:42:03 I heard the story at the time but I didn't know it was ais523. 10:42:11 I probably wasn't in the channel at the time. 10:42:22 Taneb: the controversy is not about the proof itself, but about what it's proving 10:42:41 Right 10:42:47 and I agree with pretty much everyone else that the situation is currently poorly-defined 10:43:13 and would like to find better definitions, together with a demonstration that the examples in the proof fit that definition, before actually publishing 10:43:18 From this information I can estimate your age! Ahahaha! 10:43:24 btw, by "example" here I mean the opposite of "counterexample" 10:43:34 as in, something that proves the entire theorem just by existing 10:43:36 i estimate ais523's age at 523 10:43:46 rather than "something added to make it easier to understand" 10:43:55 it'd be nice if we had two different words for those concepts 10:44:13 "countercounter example" 10:44:32 Taneb: Uh, we're kind of intuitionists around here... 10:44:52 ++example; 10:44:53 shachaf: not in general; I rarely find reasons to use intuionistic logic 10:44:58 linear logic, otoh, I use all the time 10:46:18 oh, I have a question for #esoteric 10:46:28 Intuitionistic logic seems to fit well with a lot of programming things. Maybe they aren't esoteric enough. 10:46:28 how would you interpret "λf.λx.λx.f(x)(x)"? 10:46:46 Same as λf.λy.λx.f(x)(x) 10:46:48 I would like to read it as xs referring to the inner one. 10:47:09 OK, so you're mentally interpreting the lambdas as having lexical scope 10:47:12 I guess that's reasonable 10:47:27 I don't think f(x)(x) syntax is standard. 10:47:38 Is it hinting at something that I'm missing? 10:47:40 Otherwise alpha equivalence would yield incorrect results? 10:47:46 shachaf: it is standard, just the concept it's describing is normally not often used in languages that have that function call notation 10:48:09 read it as (f(x))(x) 10:48:09 I mean standard in the same line with λs. 10:48:16 oh 10:48:22 that's mathematical notation 10:48:30 It's one kind of mathematical notation. 10:48:33 I did it that way so it wouldn't remind people of any particular programming language 10:48:48 The lambdas remind me of lambda calculus, which is pretty well-defined. 10:48:57 I thought this was just a question of where we put the parentheses. 10:48:58 It reminded me of my days messing with Python's lambda construct 10:49:11 If it's a questionf lexical vs. dynamic scope, well, dynamic scope is crazy. 10:49:16 So lexical scope. 10:49:21 anyway, the most obvious semantic interpretation appears to be equivalent λf.λx.λy.f(x)(x); the λx replaces all the xs, then there aren't any more xs left for the other λx to replace 10:49:31 shachaf, what do you think of mixed scope? 10:49:47 "replaces"? 10:50:13 ais523: Do you also have this interpretation for λf.λx.λx.f(x) ? 10:50:24 If so the other x is just muddling things up. 10:50:31 shachaf: yeah, but that other x adds new possible answers 10:50:37 like λf.λx.λy.f(x)(y) 10:50:42 Hmm. 10:50:57 before you say that's absurd, that's actually what the standard mathematical categorical semantics produces 10:51:08 I spent all last night writing a multi-page essay on why it's wrong :) 10:51:15 λf.(λx.(λx.(f(x))(x))) is how I imagine it, ridiculously bracketed 10:51:27 Taneb: yeah, it parses like that 10:51:33 the question is how the lambdas match the xs 10:51:34 Which contains (λx.(f(x))(x)) which has an obvious meaning 10:52:03 Which can be alpha-converted 10:52:07 I think being able to extract any subexpression the way Taneb did -- possibly with free variables -- is a good property. 10:52:16 I'm not sure I understand where your interpretation comes from. 10:52:35 Which leads to incorrect results with the semantic interpretation 10:52:41 hmm 10:52:52 OK, so if we're working in a linear logic 10:53:02 (λx.(f(x))(x)) is an open term 10:53:15 because you're using two xs, but only supplying one 10:53:21 there's still a free x floating around somewhere 10:53:35 I don't know much linear logic. :-( 10:53:43 the original type system, it's a little unclear whether it's a linear logic or not 10:53:46 You're using it twice 10:53:52 but it does require the number of lambdas to match the number of variables 10:54:01 ((λx.(f(x))) (x)) would use it once 10:54:01 But I don't like any interpretation that would just refer to two different xs. 10:54:08 And require a free, floating x somewhere 10:54:13 yep 10:54:31 so the problem with the traditional mathematical semantics that I'm arguing against 10:54:39 is that it doesn't actually keep track of variable names at all 10:54:45 so it can't observe that the two xs are the same 10:54:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:54:58 it just sees two lambdas, and two variable uses, and thinks everything is fine 10:55:08 Hang on, are you saying that we're right but unconventional, or wrong AND unconventional 10:55:34 Taneb: I don't think anyone's saying anything about "right" or "wrong". 10:55:46 Taneb: I think you're righter than the conventional definition 10:55:52 Right 10:55:55 but also that you're assuming too much sanity 10:56:03 Well, maybe some people are. 10:56:15 ais523: Clearly the solution is de Bruijn indices. 10:56:38 shachaf: the funny thing is, I think the traditional categorical semantics is actually correct for de Bruijn indices 10:56:42 but wrong for variable names 10:56:57 (cf Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download) 10:57:00 Taneb: anyway, alpha-conversion is clearly required for closed terms 10:57:08 also, I should really read that language 10:57:14 the problem with serious languages with spammy names 10:57:19 is that I note that they're not spam 10:57:28 ais523, have you seen Binary lambda calculus? 10:57:30 and then mentally disregard them 10:57:37 Taneb: yes but I can't remember how it works 10:57:55 Essentially like Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download, but with different I/O 10:58:34 (Binary lambda calculus's IO is bitwise, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is character-wise) 10:58:59 right, and it has an obfuscating syntax for no good reason 10:59:01 why did you do that? 10:59:17 It's not obfuscating! It's perfectly readable! 10:59:26 (I don't hate it as much as PH hates BF derivatives, but it does disappoint me) 10:59:50 (it was originally a functional version of BIT) 11:00:05 hmm 11:00:16 btw, I just random-paged onto Numberwang (your version) 11:00:26 Heh 11:01:04 I'm trying to work out what made you come up with that operation for determining a command 11:01:14 which I originally thought was mod 9 mod 4, but isn't because of the decimals 11:01:31 It's digital root mod 4 11:01:40 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:02:04 Basically, I wanted any terminating decimal to end up as one of the four commands 11:02:20 yeah, digital root normally means mod 9 11:02:23 but only on integers 11:02:42 it took me a moment to realise it was different on floats 11:02:54 (fun fact: all floats are terminating decimals) 11:02:55 It's defined as the sum of the digits 11:03:03 (although not vice versa) 11:03:14 Taneb: I thought it's defined as repeatedly summing the digits 11:03:15 Which is well-defined for terminating decimals 11:03:18 until you get down to just one digit 11:03:20 Yeah 11:03:44 Sorry, my thoughts skipped about 10 steps 11:04:47 ooh, I just randomed onto Radixal!!!! 11:04:51 I like these combined effort languages 11:05:03 There should be more IMO 11:05:24 yes 11:20:06 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:22:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:44:35 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:52:54 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:53:00 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:06:18 -!- carado has joined. 12:12:02 -!- boily has joined. 12:13:15 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 12:17:51 -!- boily has joined. 12:30:56 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:31:21 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:37:13 -!- surma has joined. 12:41:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:47:20 What's the best way of working out what the largest natural k is such that n mod m ^ k = 0 for some natural m and n? 12:47:48 (eg, if n = 96 and m = 2, k = 5 because 2^5 * 3 = 96) 12:52:59 > let exercise n m | mod n m /= 0 = 0 | otherwise = 1 + exercise (div n m) m in exercise 96 2 12:53:01 5 12:55:30 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:55:41 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:56:54 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 13:11:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:19:54 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:22:51 that's the max exponent in the factorization 13:23:16 but they may be easier way to obtain it 13:23:23 they->there 13:25:02 Thanks for not saying “they=there”. 13:32:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:35:00 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:35:58 > let they = there in there = they 13:36:00 :1:27: parse error on input `=' 13:36:08 > let they = there in there == they 13:36:10 Not in scope: `there'Not in scope: `there' 13:36:13 meh. 13:37:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:38:56 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 14:07:05 -!- yiyus has joined. 14:13:28 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 14:16:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:17:01 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:01 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:01 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:02 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:02 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:02 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:57 -!- carado has joined. 14:19:01 -!- jix has joined. 14:19:01 -!- Lymia has joined. 14:19:01 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:19:01 -!- hogeyui has joined. 14:19:01 -!- EgoBot has joined. 14:19:01 -!- Gregor has joined. 14:40:51 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:47:06 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 14:48:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:49:10 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 14:49:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:50:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:50:51 ...it is cheaper to fly to London than to bus there 14:51:20 s/bus/train/ 14:51:29 With a complementary meal service, no less! 14:51:30 Kind of depends on where you are I'd imagine. 14:52:06 From Newcastle 14:53:03 Leaving about half three on June the 3rd 14:53:18 Of course, with a plane, you still need to buy a tube ticket 14:53:28 Half three is one and a half 14:53:37 :P 14:53:40 Half past three 14:54:00 We actually say something like "half five" etc in Finnish and that means 4:30 14:54:02 And it's weird as hell 14:54:06 And makes no sense 14:54:23 It's not even like "half to five" but just "half five" literally 14:54:40 Especially as British English does the same but backwards 14:55:00 win 41 14:55:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:56:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:56:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:56:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:57:06 Lumpio-: that happens in German too 14:57:24 Maybe it's like roman numerals 14:57:36 Put a smaller digit before a larger one and it's subtracted 14:57:54 Could you then say "five half" for "half six"? 14:58:25 You can say "five thirty", FWIW. 14:58:44 Bah 14:59:27 Even when taking into account Metro and Tube, it is cheaper and quicker to go via plane, metro, and tube to travel from Newcastle Central Station to King's Cross 14:59:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:00:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:01:29 just think, by 2035 or so you might be able to take a high speed train 2/3 of the way 15:02:22 It'll still be slower and more expensive 15:02:29 yep 15:05:29 -!- metasepia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:05:35 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:08:47 Hey, what do all y'all (that's the plural of y'all, right?) use for non-GUIfic conversion of RTF to plaintext? 15:09:49 'aptitude search' finds an 'unrtf', which has a promising name. 15:10:08 -!- boily has joined. 15:10:09 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:11:46 I doubt many of us'all use RTF in the first place 15:13:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:15:21 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Quitte). 15:17:35 shachaf, Fiora: yeah my work machine produces all sorts of strange patterns with the maze thing 15:17:57 i like it :) 15:20:25 damn, I missed a long discussion of new x86 instructions 15:20:30 sorry! 15:20:40 I posted a cool paper or two 15:20:59 though I can't remember if you're like bike with regards to subsisting on academic papers XD 15:21:29 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:21:35 -!- monqy has joined. 15:22:11 "Trading is halted until 2013-04-12 02:00am UTC to allow the market to cooldown following the drop in price. Read more details on the support. Additionally trading fees will not be charged within 48 hours of trading resuming (until 2013-04-14 02:00am UTC)." also kmc, oh dears 15:24:40 lolol 15:25:00 Fiora: i like to read or at least skim cool papers 15:25:16 trading halt at MtGox? 15:25:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:25:28 bitcoinity.org/markets is still showing trades 15:25:33 around $120 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:26:01 Yeah, trading halt at mtgox 15:26:12 trading halt? now? 15:26:32 I'm guessing they're trying to upgrade their systems really fast, apparently they got like 20,000 new accounts in the past day 15:26:51 gosh this is a silly bubble 15:28:20 I don't know how bitcoins work 15:28:30 But at the same time I don't really know how any currency works 15:28:55 Taneb: do you want a quick technical explanation of how bitcoins work 15:29:00 Not really 15:29:00 or do you mean more like the economics of it 15:29:02 ok 15:29:04 Right now I want a hug 15:29:07 aw 15:29:09 * kmc hugs Taneb 15:29:15 Thank you, kmc 15:29:17 not as good over IRC, i know 15:29:31 It'll do 15:29:50 I'm on the cusp of feeling really down 15:30:10 about anything in particular? 15:30:51 Not really 15:31:11 Someone being a bit nasty on Facebook, someone else not being online 15:32:29 So, actually, yes, something in particular 15:33:55 * Fiora hugs Taneb too 15:34:00 Thank you 15:36:48 * tromp_ hugs Taneb three 15:36:54 Thank you also 15:37:52 kmc: oh so like, the woman I mentioned who was doing the bit hacky stuff if you were glancing at the logs 15:38:05 bike jokingly called her a personification of IBM but he's not far off 15:38:42 she apparently has like, hundreds of patents, and invented to some degree or another three different CPU architectures 15:38:52 wow 15:39:09 she was chief architect at HP for like a decade 15:39:33 designed PA-RISC, worked on designing IA-64 too 15:40:27 i'm more impressed with the former:) 15:40:54 ( http://www.princeton.edu/~rblee/ ) 15:46:48 * ThatOtherPerson hugs Taneb, kmc, Fiora, and tromp_ simultaneously 15:46:55 we have a snowstorm beginning at 2am tonight, shifting into slushstorm at 2pm on Friday, with a slight respite around 10pm then aftermath until 9am on Saturday. 15:47:01 This is getting out of hand, Tha 15:47:06 He isn't sure why but he hopes it makes them feel happy 15:47:07 tOtherPerson 15:47:09 group hugs are great 15:47:17 ThatOtherPerson: are you impersonating some kind of octopus with all that large-scale hugging? 15:47:29 kmc, when I do them, it ends up with everyone on the floor and someone getting crushed 15:47:32 :/ 15:47:42 :/ 15:47:55 'everyone on the floor' is not necessarily bad 15:48:02 Perhaps they're too contagious around here 15:48:48 Huh, one of my British friends said that the British were not into hugs. 15:49:00 if your floors are contagious, you have a more pressing problem than worrying about crushing people. 15:50:11 ThatOtherPerson, it may be more of a rural thing, or a northern thing, or a rural people in the north thing 15:50:47 :D 15:51:55 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:57:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:59:49 ThatOtherPerson: they're not very common, although there are a few situations in which they're socially acceptable 16:00:44 Like meeting strangers in a subway? 16:02:02 So, you've heard a southerner, a northerner, and a mindlands-er 16:02:38 I liked the round tunnels of the Tube. 16:03:24 Have you seen any of the urban exploration stuff where they explore abandoned tube stations? 16:03:51 tuuuuuuuuuuuuuube 16:04:32 When they were digging tunnels for the Tyne-Wear Metro, they found an unexploded bomb from the second world war. 16:04:51 If that bomb had exploded, it would have killed my gran and great grandfather 16:04:58 Hugs are almost acceptable around here, but a little awkward. You shouldn't hug someone when they arrive. It's sometimes okay to hug someone when they leave. Only hug with one arm. Follow these three rules and you should be fine. 16:05:00 I really like subways. I don't know why. 16:05:10 ThatOtherPerson: because they're awesome 16:05:26 They are pretty awesome 16:05:49 I like anything underground :-) Caves, subways, crypts, bunkers... 16:05:50 http://ugcs.net/~arapp/timelines/europe.html 16:06:36 we have a pretty nice subway here, with all kinds of entertainment and service interruptions. 16:06:50 Taneb: If life was a video game, they'd have blown it up to make a hole to save some digging. 16:07:11 It would have made a perfectly spherical empty space. 16:07:43 -!- conehead has joined. 16:08:06 TIL there are sweet-tasting mushrooms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cap 16:08:39 -!- carado has joined. 16:08:41 That is just creepy 16:10:26 going to look for Mycena corticola today 16:10:33 really tiny mushrooms that pop out of the sides of trees after it rains 16:11:08 fungi 16:11:12 eww 16:11:22 fungi are the best 16:11:40 fungot: Fungi are unnatural, right? 16:11:40 ThatOtherPerson: how's that? 16:11:41 I don't trust myself enough to pick fungi to eat 16:11:47 But I will eat mushrooms 16:11:50 * impomatic is too scared to eat fungi that I find 16:12:11 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:12:11 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 16:12:11 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:12:17 * ThatOtherPerson think fungi are an alien life form biding their time to try to conquer the planet 16:12:18 impomatic: yeah, identifying them is tricky 16:12:25 *thinks 16:12:52 you can get advice on http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/3 16:13:09 fungot: They're so creepy and different and alien 16:13:09 ThatOtherPerson: bar stuff? who knows, perhaps fnord the fnord giant? 16:13:13 ThatOtherPerson: wouldn't alien life forms still be natural (unless cloned / engineered) 16:13:34 impomatic: ... BESIDES THE POINT 16:13:36 ;D 16:14:13 kmc: I can identify a few. Unfortunately the ones which are easy to identify tend to be poisonous. 16:14:18 (That means "yes") 16:14:27 i think oyster mushrooms are pretty easy to identify 16:14:29 and are tasty 16:14:30 not sure, though 16:15:58 spore print is very useful for making an identification 16:16:02 but that takes like a day 16:16:13 mushroom ident guides are usually organized by spore color first 16:16:16 kmc: I haven't seen those around here. Mostly fly agaric, something that grow out of a tree (beefsteak?), puffballs, shaggy inkcap, and something brown that could be anything. 16:16:31 yeah, so many kinds of little brown mushrooms 16:17:14 puffballs are neat 16:17:31 Apparently we have blue stems (whatever they are) which sell for 60 per kilo. 16:18:07 "blue stem" makes me think psilocybin :) 16:18:29 in that case they might be more than £60 per kilo! 16:18:58 hm shaggy inkcap is nematophagous (oysters are too) 16:19:06 they trap and kill nematodes for their delicious nitrogen 16:19:40 For some reason, I have to connect through my VPS to access the research library server using school wireless 16:35:02 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:37:18 MUSHROOM RULES: 1) Learn to recognize poisonous mushrooms. 2) Only eat mushrooms that you recognize. 16:37:22 (Yeah, I already did that "joke" on-channel, but since it was topical...) 16:39:30 the shroomery forum has a lot of posts like "I just ate these mushrooms, what were they?" 16:39:33 i don't understand these people... 16:39:59 If you can fit something in your mouth, it's edible. 16:55:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:01:39 no fizzie 17:01:54 if you can fit something in your mouth and swallow it's edible 17:05:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:07:08 the part before "and" appears redundant... 17:07:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:07:50 leaving us with swallable (sounds more fun than swallowable) 17:08:52 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:08:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:09:00 funny hits you get if you google that... 17:09:21 You know, in addition to a rabbi, I've also pretended to be a king 17:09:32 the bony king of nowhere? 17:09:54 ...the young Edward-y king of England 17:10:32 I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention 17:10:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:11:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:16:39 -!- listofoptions has joined. 17:18:03 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:21:31 -!- olsner has joined. 17:31:19 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:35:52 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 17:59:44 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:09:19 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:30:51 The writer's identify is Barbara Bob and her spouse does not like it at all. Her spouse will not like it the way she does but what she definitely likes doing is cooking and she would never give it up. Years ago she moved to Maryland. Her working day career is a meter reader. 18:34:32 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 18:36:11 elliott: sounds like Wesley Willis 18:37:21 heh 18:37:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:38:17 http://brianmckenna.org/blog/category_theory_promisesaplus oh boy, I can't wait to find out the ways in which this has nothing at all to do with category theory 18:38:43 Putting it together, here's the monad class 18:38:48 might be all the ways 18:38:51 thanks for saying this without even mentioning what a typeclass is at all 18:38:56 really going to help your readers 18:39:24 function flatMap(p, f) { return p.then(f); 18:39:24 } 18:39:30 HOLY SHIT I CAN'T HANDLE THE CATEGORY THEORY IT'S TOO MUCH!! 18:39:40 here are some fairly simple things from Haskell but i'm going to call them "Category Theory" to show i'm hardcore! 18:39:49 also not say what a category is 18:40:04 The above will work for any monad. List of lists? Optional optional value? If the JavaScript community settled on using flatMap as a method, we could write DRY, generalised code for monads. 18:40:15 DRY is an adjective now I guess 18:40:17 good thing monads don't have return 18:40:21 kmc: it means not wet 18:40:26 "hth" 18:40:50 elliott: sounds like someone is in for a rude awakening in re: monad transformers 18:41:08 "So where exactly is the category theory in this, opposed to just providing a sane API? Does the author actually understand category theory? How does it matter that the interface has similarities to concepts in category theory? Is there any valuable proof or construction we can get out of this?" 18:41:15 you know an article is bad when the /r/programming comments are better 18:41:19 oof 18:41:24 that's rock bottom 18:41:51 "By my unscientific count there were 13 counts of monad and 8 counts of functor in that article. That seems well above the expected number given your comment, which would suggest there were no ideas from category theory in it." 18:41:52 elliott: "By my unscientific count there were 13 counts of monad and 8 counts of functor in that article. That seems well above the expected number given your comment, which would suggest there were no ideas from category theory in it." 18:41:59 at least 73.4% monad 18:42:24 i want a chrome extension that gives me the monad / functor count for every page 18:42:26 tia 18:42:49 g'mafternoon 18:43:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:43:08 'As a solo artist, Willis created more than 50 albums, each with over 20 tracks, full of bizarre, tense, and often obscene rants about crime, fast food, cultural trends, bus routes, violent confrontations with superheroes, commands for his "demons" to engage in bestiality, and praise for his favorite actors, friends (both platonic and romantic), politicians, and hip-hop and rock artists.' 18:43:15 elliott: is category new monad? 18:43:41 in b4 burrito 18:43:45 also hichaf 18:43:57 greetingan 18:44:01 greegan? 18:44:43 wfm 18:45:02 why do you hate burritos :'( 18:45:17 I'm still not quite sure what a burrito is 18:45:29 I'm imagining something like a tortilla 18:45:31 Or perhaps a monad 18:46:05 aiui it's a tortilla 18:46:28 kmc: imo next time you're looking for a burrito in mountain view you should go to the taqueria on rengstorff & old middlefield 18:46:49 ok 18:47:01 not sure if Taneb is serious 18:47:10 (the last line wasn't serious) 18:47:12 hmm, there are three taquerias on that corner 18:47:19 (I am, though, unsure exactly what a burrito is) 18:47:24 you should go to the one in the back of the little grocery store 18:47:25 Taneb: it's a burrito rolled up into a fat tube, filled with stuff like beans, rice, meat, guacamole, lettuce, etc 18:47:28 er 18:47:30 a tortilla rolled up 18:47:37 sorry 2 give non well founded definition 18:47:42 Right 18:47:44 I never had a burrito before I moved to CA. 18:47:59 I'm not sure I knew what they were. 18:48:02 kmc: that just makes burritos codata 18:48:04 Taneb: each one will have different stuff; beans and rice are pretty essential tho 18:48:14 kmc: you can always peel off the next fat tube in a finite amount of time 18:48:15 elliott: true you can 'unwap' each layer in finite time 18:48:17 yes 18:48:27 welp time to write a codata tutorial 18:48:43 In that case, I may have eaten a number of burritos today 18:48:53 (there was tortilla, chilli, and rice) 18:49:01 (the chilli contained beans?_ 18:49:02 ) 18:53:02 seems legit 18:53:08 it's a p. broad category of food 18:53:13 SF has a "sushiritto" restaurant 18:53:22 a v. SF sort of thing 18:53:36 is that sushi+burrito? 18:55:35 yep 18:55:49 it's a sushi roll in the size and shape of a burrito 18:55:55 http://www.sushirrito.com/ 18:56:16 but is it vegetarian 18:56:22 could be 18:56:34 oh i forgot to mention cheese above, most burritos have cheese 18:56:37 Hexham has a greek restaurant 18:56:37 and/or sour cream 18:56:42 Apparently it's crap 18:57:12 Taneb: imo move to california??????? 18:57:35 imo fix your healthcare and gun laws 18:58:10 :( 18:58:13 fair retort 18:58:26 MA has semi-fixed healthcare anyway 18:58:35 it's not great but it's less fucked than the rest of the USA 18:58:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:59:33 this was one of Governor Romney's big accomplishments before he ran for President and had to suddenly hate that program 19:01:13 :/ 19:02:04 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 19:05:14 -!- Bike has joined. 19:24:01 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:24:14 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 19:24:15 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Changing host). 19:24:15 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 19:30:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:32:06 -!- ousia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:36:11 -!- ousia has joined. 19:42:06 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:42:09 Taneb / ThatOtherPerson: http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/37966564090/ :3 19:42:41 I'VE BEEN DOING IT ALL WRONG 19:43:31 it's never too late to learn! 19:43:34 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 19:44:00 well, it's probably too late if backs have already been broken. 19:44:19 There are always more backs out there to break. 19:44:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:45:14 (I am a reasonably tall chap who is keen on hugs and has a number of shorter friends, this comes up a lot) 19:45:15 yes but like you can still learn 19:45:36 :) 19:46:03 (in all fairness, I also like the "bury head in chest cling" hug too, but that probably doesn't leave much for the tall person to do) 19:46:46 (I once brought a book) 19:47:49 was it called "how to hug" 19:47:57 i think that was a dictionary hth 19:48:19 It was called Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers 19:48:26 It's a silly pulp sci-fi 19:48:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:49:00 what does that book have to do with hugging o_O 19:49:23 About a couple of college students who accidentally make a FTL drive powered by American artificial cheddar 19:49:36 Fiora, very little, it just happened to be the book I had on me at the time 19:50:25 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Excess Flood). 19:50:26 kmc: why isn't strace nice and simple 19:50:37 elliott: uh it is 19:50:48 an elegant modern strace duuuuuuuuuffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 19:50:57 elliott, because it's not part of @'s core utils 19:51:20 an strace that celebrates craftsmanship 19:51:22 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 19:51:37 kmc, why did you just say duffffffffffff 19:51:38 kmc: all i want to know is why clicking on links in urxvt is broken 19:51:42 duffman 19:51:46 Phantom_Hoover: he didnt he said duuuuuuuuuffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 19:51:52 hey does anyone here like akira 19:52:06 I've heard of akira 19:52:13 can't remember in which context, though 19:52:14 not good enough. 19:52:19 Is it an anime 19:52:24 yeah 19:52:31 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira 19:52:35 Any good? 19:52:38 yeah 19:52:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira -- insecure link for people who aren't shachaf 19:53:22 only insecure people click on insecure links 19:53:35 Bike, the film? 19:54:11 yes. 19:54:14 http://sprunge.us/FWaP ok so this is the problem 19:54:17 though the comic's great too, if longer 19:54:24 Might give it a shot 19:54:26 yet i have 19:54:26 URxvt.urlLauncher: chromium 19:54:28 it's four thousand pages or some crap 19:54:28 so what gives??? 19:54:36 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Akira # MAXIMALLY SECURE LINK 19:55:03 oh. 19:55:06 ti was changed to url-launcher 19:55:17 "sensible-editor, sensible-pager and sensible-browser make sensible decisions on which editor, pager, and web browser to call, respectively." 19:55:22 Yeah, I remember the movie was kind of confusing just because of how much it was compressed from the manga 19:55:27 (what the hell is a pager) 19:55:30 it was pretty though 19:55:33 (are we talking like those beepy things) 19:55:36 omg 19:55:37 links work again 19:55:37 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:55:43 it's a miracle! 19:55:47 i've gone 19:55:48 Bike: I think it's a thing people put in their pocket protector 19:55:50 literally months with broken links 19:55:52 now you can click all the secure akira information you want 19:55:53 Bike: a pager is more or less 19:55:57 Oh. 19:56:09 Fiora: not convinced pocket protectors exist tbh 19:56:18 Bike you weren't there fort hat time i went like three to four months without number keys 19:56:38 remember those months i went without → and End keys 19:56:42 lol. 19:56:45 oh wait those months are still going on 19:56:45 help 19:57:36 the joke is that my keyboard is broken and it's Bike's fault 19:57:59 Good joke, imo. 19:58:57 Bike: I think they have like, the same mythical status as slide rules? 19:59:14 hey now 19:59:16 hey i have a slide rule 19:59:19 i've used a slide rule 19:59:21 i've actually used a slide rule 20:00:08 wow :o 20:00:09 I rule at sliding 20:00:10 the stuff of legends! 20:00:14 they're actually pretty easy to use 20:00:35 Battery 0: Charging, 75%, 1484:00:00 until charged 20:00:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Conflict:_Palestine 20:01:05 "Global Conflicts: Palestine is a serious game. It was developed by Serious Games Interactive" 20:01:07 sounds serious 20:01:16 Jerusalem facing challenges. 20:01:44 "Conflict: Middle East Political Simulator" well i guess that about sums it up 20:02:05 "Conflict: Middle East Political Simulator, often known as ConfMEPS" 20:02:25 "One of the main ways to lose the game is for WMDs to be used, which often sets off a global nuclear holocaust. This can present a problem to players," 20:02:50 sounds like DEFCON 20:02:57 DEFCON is a fun game 20:03:14 * kmc has also used a slide rule 20:03:22 just for addition and multiplication though 20:03:27 addition is kind of obvious 20:03:27 gosh DEFCON was fun 20:03:31 and multiplication is log addition :) 20:03:35 golly gosh 20:03:39 " Generally, it is best to destabilize Iran into collapsing, since this permits Iraq to threaten some of the countries which share a border with Israel." yes. nailed it. 20:03:40 i would love DEFCON if i could be good at it 20:03:57 i was good enough to beat the computer reliably, because the computer is dumb 20:04:00 but i never played much online 20:04:08 I can imagine it being so much fun to play with friends 20:04:16 online it's just gruesome 20:04:21 "Lebanon, which borders Israel and Syria, is highly unstable and will collapse on its own accord if another country does not invade it first; in fact, Lebanon will collapse by itself even if the player is always trying to disrupt the insurgency and support the Government. " this is seriously darkly amusing 20:04:33 we had a party that included a video of DEFCON gameplay on a huge projection screen 20:04:36 you have to, like, micromanage every single one of your bombers, and split your entire fleet into 2-ship units 20:04:38 cold war themed party 20:04:56 that sounds pretty sad kmc 20:05:05 did you play cold war songs 20:05:05 I was crap at DEFCON 20:05:13 Napalm Sticks to Kids~ 20:05:16 I don't know how bad I was but it was fun 20:05:22 (that's the only cold war song i know) 20:05:23 Does Coldplay make cold war music? 20:05:24 actually that was the party where the hazmat crew got called the next day 20:05:32 Bike: they could organize the party by decades. so like, in the first hour, every 10 minutes they have to vote someone out as a communist 20:05:34 "Coldplay: The cherry on top of a shit sundae." 20:05:53 i definitely wasn't good but i was competent at not being obviously bad 20:06:10 Fiora: and then they all get high as hell and forget the theme? 20:06:16 About a couple of college students who accidentally make a FTL drive powered by American artificial cheddar <-- overarching premise: "this stuff has to be good for _something_"? 20:06:20 then in the next decade they have to vote who is the bourgeois and shame them in front of everyone 20:06:26 -!- kallisti has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:06:29 There are a few typos in the game which can be distracting to the player, such as the announcement that a given country has been overrun by another country's "hoards" (its bank accounts?), rather than using the correct term, "hordes". 20:06:44 and decide on Four Olds from around the room to destroy 20:06:49 haha 20:06:51 okay this is silly 20:07:17 oerjan, they put it in a particle collider for a joke, and then the next-door neighbour's cat ends up in Toronto or something 20:07:21 later i show up in a ghillie suit and murder all the christians for being too leftist 20:07:31 c.c 20:08:28 or just stand outside the party training assassins 20:08:53 i wonder how introversion's doing these days 20:10:11 oerjan, then the two college students, their girlfriend (they share one), and a KGB spy end up on a 747 in space or something 20:10:15 And save a few worlds 20:18:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:22:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:22:40 i am not sure 747's are considered space-worthy? 20:23:10 just strap a rocket to the end 20:23:11 maybe it's like Space Battleship Yamato? 20:23:26 hell, strap some to where the normal engines are 20:24:10 oerjan, it was very silly 20:24:53 Phantom_Hoover, I think they just put a small particle collider and some cheese in it 20:26:14 wtf google is constantly crashing 20:26:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:27:01 Taneb, wouldn't that basically be an ion drive 20:27:05 with cheese ions 20:27:07 only the main page though 20:27:17 * ion drive 20:27:27 Phantom_Hoover, I think it was more a magic drive 20:27:39 oh 20:28:02 btw can we all just spend a minute admiring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_salt-water_rocket 20:28:09 It was not at all hard sci-fi 20:29:29 Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_fragment_rocket this is my favorite nuclear rocket design 20:29:39 no fiora 20:29:40 i'm sorry 20:29:52 it's just not crazy enough 20:29:54 it can get exhaust velocity up to a significant fraction of c 20:29:57 it's so cool 20:30:01 https://www.lp.org/make-a-bitcoin-contribution 20:30:03 so can the nswr 20:30:06 libertarian party now accepting bitcoin donations 20:30:16 By checking this box I acknowledge that contributions from corporations and foreign nationals are prohibited (Permanent legal residents of the U.S., i.e., "green card" holders, are not considered foreign nationals). I also acknowledge that this contribution is made from my own personal funds and not funds from a corporate or business entity. 20:30:25 if you use highly-enriched fuel 20:30:30 something tells me this isn't legally sound 20:30:31 oh wow O_O that one has crazy good specific impulse too 20:30:39 elliott, you're not a US citizen. 20:30:44 Hate to break it 2 u 20:30:48 also 20:30:53 i like how the donation amount starts at $5k 20:30:57 LIBERTARIANS 20:31:08 Fiora, it's basically project orion with one long, continuous explosion 20:31:13 That's amazing 20:31:14 elliott: That's actually a legal requirement on campaign donations. 20:31:38 elliott: Basically, without having a weirdo legal status you can't accept from corporations, and you can't accept from non-citizens. 20:31:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:32:03 kmc: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/04/11/as-big-investors-emerge-bitcoin-gets-ready-for-its-close-up/ oh my gosh it's the winklevoss twins 20:32:06 they're back 20:32:30 I rarely use any compression with DVI other than the built-in movement commands compression, although other can be used if necessary such as gz and so on 20:32:30 zzo38: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 20:32:34 ?messages 20:32:34 kmc asked 2d 43m 57s ago: What kind of compression (if any) do you use on .dvi files? 20:32:34 Bike said 1d 20h 22m 8s ago: friend of mine doesn't think TwoDucks can solve the halting problem (for UTMs) and would be interested in talking it over with you. 20:32:36 best return since cliff lawton's 20:32:42 pikhq_: yes but... 20:32:44 it's bitcoins 20:32:59 pretty trivial to just donate money to them and put in a fake address 20:33:16 "winklevoss"?? 20:33:32 the guys who sued facebook for stealing their idea 20:33:56 haha 20:34:05 the identical twins from the fairy tale 20:34:08 pretty sure they can't actually be real 20:34:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:13 the bad guys from that facebook film 20:34:28 «Olympic rowers. Nemeses of Mark Zuckerberg. Characters on “The Simpsons.” Now they can add a new label: bitcoin moguls.» this is pretty great 20:34:46 I'm at least 0 of those things 20:34:48 «The Winklevii — as they are popularly known —» 20:35:10 hey dutch tulips 20:35:15 i should actually read that book sometime 20:35:20 "They have parlayed that fortune into Winklevoss Capital. Their first two investments were in Hukkster, a start-up shopping Web site and SumZero, an online community for professional money managers." 20:35:24 winklevopodes 20:35:36 guys 20:35:39 wrong bubble 20:35:42 Phantom_Hoover: does anyone invest in anything that isn't a website any more 20:35:46 Hmm 20:35:53 things that aren't websites? what 20:35:54 "Winklevoss" 20:36:05 That sounds like my dad's mum's maiden name 20:36:10 "Wolswinkel" 20:36:11 Bike: i know it's hard to believe they exist 20:36:27 I invested in an oil company 20:36:36 It hasn't yet gone bankrupt 20:37:31 Taneb 20:37:33 you are the worst 20:37:53 Yes 20:37:55 Yes I am 20:37:57 time for a relevant quote: 20:37:59 ~fortune 20:37:59 I used to think that the brain was the most wonderful organ in 20:37:59 my body. Then I realized who was telling me this. 20:37:59 -- Emo Phillips 20:38:31 ha, ha, cartesian dualism 20:40:18 "Oh, so that's why the value is crashing... people just wanted to get out once they saw the Winkelvii getting in." *pff* 20:42:47 -!- TodPunk has joined. 20:44:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:47:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:51:58 Oh, I can just popcnt %eax, %eax? 20:52:53 now i'm wondering if there's assembly that resembles brekekex koax koax 20:55:07 `? maybe 20:55:12 maybe? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:55:21 `learn Maybe a is Just a or Nothing 20:55:29 I knew that. 20:56:09 shachaf: Just (x::a) 20:56:17 Just Int isn't :: Maybe Int 20:56:36 elliott: Go fight with the "data" syntax people. 20:57:57 :t Just 5 :: Maybe Int 20:57:59 Maybe Int 20:58:42 * oerjan laughs at today's darths & droids 21:01:18 :t return 5 `asTypeOf` Just undefined 21:01:20 Num a => Maybe a 21:01:39 oerjan: do you know about ways to encode codata using inductive types 21:02:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:02:25 * Phantom_Hoover dips into r/bitcoin, notes that they are arguing with someone pointing out that bitcoins are never going to hit $100,000 21:02:47 XD 21:02:56 elliott: wrapping things dually in functions, i assume... 21:03:17 wait, you said "know". i guess not. 21:03:28 well I am pretty sure there are multiple viable ways but Idon't know the details 21:03:37 I assume someone has written a paper about it but I can't find one 21:03:43 oerjan: amazingly I don't think x86 actually has anything starting with K 21:04:12 Fiora: the k is not important here, i was inspired by %eax after all 21:04:12 or G, Q, Y, or Z. 21:05:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:05:33 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:04 Phantom_Hoover: link 21:06:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c51ck/i_think_this_subreddit_should_seriously_consider/c9d3ket 21:06:25 elliott: i would expect codata to be somehow representable as something a function that takes an inductive data type argument describing how to decompose it to a finite level 21:06:31 *-something 21:06:46 sort of dual to a fold 21:08:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:08:27 well... I am a bit unsure because when you have dependent types, it's no longer sufficient to describe data types as their fold 21:08:38 oh dear 21:09:09 i do not usually think of dependent types, i was imagining something system F like here 21:10:37 mm 21:18:07 -!- augur has joined. 21:22:09 Dog attacks TV for baseball http://youtu.be/L7QFFZJWAX8 21:25:35 Phantom_Hoover: ... 21:26:09 this is quite a thread PH 21:26:21 ion: ha, nice catch 21:26:29 Estimate those probabilities, multiply them by each other. Is your answer zero? Nope, didn't think so. 21:27:10 wow are there gold standard people here i'm seeing 21:27:12 "Why would anyone record themselves playing triple play? Definitely planned... Therefore its NOT A NICE SAVE" 21:27:22 woah, youtube commenter, you are really blowing the lid off this conspiracy 21:27:27 do the zapruder film next 21:27:43 "400 years ago Canada was a bunch of stupid trees. Now we re worth almost 1.8 trillion. Give that amount of time, and maybe." wow it's bullshit /and/ racist 21:27:52 what 21:28:12 bitcoins are just like canada kmc 21:28:29 "I think a better analogy is that Microsoft was started in a garage, and Facebook was started by random college kids in their dorm room. Oh and don't forget Apple who nearly died that one time.""Yeah, and none of those companies is anywhere close to being worth two trillion dollars." "neither of those companies is a currency." 21:29:03 Bike: well canada is still a bunch of stupid trees. 21:29:21 Just because a lot of people bought in early and get rich, that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to get RICHER. I feel like there is so much greed around Bitcoin now that it's going to fail just over the asshats that won't recognize the value. 21:30:03 why would you even want a BTC to be worth $10000, that's not how you measure the strength of a currency 21:30:22 you're winning if the numbers go up 21:30:24 it's like mario 21:30:26 well people don't care about the strength of BTC so much as making a lot of money off the BTC they have 21:30:33 even if they pretend otherwise 21:30:49 there was an article in the observer making that point 21:31:05 well if the observer said it 21:31:06 bitcoin is doomed to fail because it encourages speculators and hoarding, apparently 21:31:21 sort of like other currencies you mean 21:31:22 if it's doomed to fail it's because the people using it are dipshits 21:31:24 yeah, deflation is built into the protocol 21:31:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:36 elliott, what kmc said 21:31:46 yes i do know how bitcoin works :P 21:31:53 it's kind of brilliant, though, isn't it? the creator of bitcoin was able to gather a vast army of supporters to push it just through greed 21:31:55 if i have 200 in a sock it's just going to become worthless over time 21:32:00 because all the early adopters will have a ton to gain 21:32:09 something about bitcoin being a microcosm of capitalism, not a conspiracy 21:32:17 if you have 200,000 JPY in a sock then it almost doesn't become worthless except that your country's economy slowly melts 21:32:37 elliott: the invisible hand is flipping us all off 21:36:48 -!- monqy has joined. 21:38:34 hello monqy 21:39:28 hi 21:42:32 huh mtgox is tokyo-based? 21:42:44 i was imagining it as being, like 21:42:49 on top of an actual mountain 21:42:52 haha 21:42:54 somewhere in the rockies 21:43:01 on top of an actual Magic: the 21:43:15 possibly in a libertarian conclave of some kind 21:43:25 the 21:43:31 oh 21:43:33 i missed kmc's joke 21:43:36 womp womp 21:43:48 also doesn't tokyo have mountains 21:43:51 did Phantom_Hoover miss kmc's joke 21:44:20 monqy: why is your username 'help' 21:44:26 i don't think they have the letter x in japan 21:44:30 or... "~help" 21:44:35 freenode adds the ~ 21:45:02 noidentd: if only 21:45:14 monqy: secret i actually use oidentd 21:45:18 bc its in the debian repos 21:45:35 monqy: remember when your username was swell; those were some good times 21:45:41 (it made me think your real name was swell) 21:45:45 (like you were thomas swell or something) 21:45:58 was i in here back when it was 'chap'? 21:46:05 hmmmmmmmmmmm maybe 21:46:07 i dont remember that though 21:46:49 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:47:30 it may have been 'ciao' too at one point but im less sure about that 21:48:11 also http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/04/zerocoin-making-bitcoin-anonymous.html is neat 21:48:43 > 523/12 21:48:45 43.583333333333336 21:49:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:49:59 * Phantom_Hoover realises that it's actually kind of mad that there's a $20 spread in prices from the 4 non-mtgox exchanges on bitcoinity 21:50:19 kmc: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173227.0 21:51:17 yikes 21:52:12 Yeah, the single biggest failure of BTC is that it's inherently deflationary... 21:52:19 Meaning that long-term it's simply not viable. 21:53:41 But hey, people also support the gold standard. 21:53:48 so as t→∞ everyone is just hoarding coins and not spending them... but is there some way to incentivize against that 21:53:50 Which has the same problem really. 21:53:52 other than modifying the protocol 21:54:07 pikhq_: and a lot of the same people supporm both... 21:54:11 Yup. 21:54:21 'consider linux or os x' 21:54:36 what, exactly, was the problem with not making it deflationary 21:55:02 If you really truly think Bitcoin is going to last long-term, it's in your best interest to just grab some and sit on it. 21:55:07 And, like, retire on it. 21:55:23 but if everyone does that and liquidity dries up 21:55:29 Then it fails. :) 21:55:30 then how do you actually spend your bitcoins on important goods 21:55:50 Yay, liquidity crises. 21:55:56 I think maybe that's part of the reason why it's so volatile? or at least part of it, since, like, the number of bitcoins actually trading seems to be a tiny fraction of the total 21:56:14 i think the deflationary thing is sufficiently far off that it's not influencing behaivor now 21:56:17 but i could be wrong 21:56:31 not the deflationary bit but rather just "people are sitting on it" 21:56:36 kmc: It's actually been deflationary since day one. 21:56:36 why did it have to be deflationary! i assume there was some reason for it 21:56:41 pikhq_: yeah, i know 21:56:48 As more bitcoins are mined, mining gets harder. 21:56:59 i just think people aren't thinking long term yet 21:57:00 I suspect people aren't *acting* on this, but nevertheless. 21:57:06 maybe it's easier to convince people of the value of something if you can guarantee it will be in limited supply (?) 21:57:07 that the market is mostly driven by short term bubbly speculation 21:57:17 Fiora: yeah 21:57:27 deflation gives you a currency which is worth a lot of dollars which looks good in a way 21:57:31 it definitely did a good job at recruiting the libertarians -_- 21:57:33 but it hurts your economy 21:58:15 people keep telling me that the Right Thing is nominal GDP growth targets 21:58:25 I remember hearing that 'satoshi' had mined, like, 500k bitcoins or something 21:58:28 i don't really know 21:58:30 I wonder where those are now... 21:59:27 it's so weird that bitcoin was invented by some anonymous japanese person 21:59:32 it makes the whole thing like 200% more cyberpunk 21:59:40 I'm not even sure people are certain it was one person 21:59:55 also how did i only now notice that 'bitcoin' is one letter off from 'bitchin' 22:00:39 (bitcoin is actually a stand alone complex!) 22:00:44 finally a way to trade virtual chins anonymously 22:00:56 i am going to saw off my own chin and trade it in asap 22:01:47 kmc: i don't think there's any reason to believe it was actually invented by a japanese person 22:02:30 some kind of..... weeaboo cypherpunk 22:02:34 like it might just be oen of the later developers using another name for the initial development 22:02:39 for i don't know 22:02:41 mystique? 22:02:44 it's kind of weird 22:02:48 if you want a japanese thing there's Perfect Dark 22:03:02 version 1.02 was called "standalone complex" 22:03:07 but i'm sure the fact that the inventor is unknown appeals to the kind of ancap anonymity type impulse 22:03:08 maximum cyberpunk go 22:03:10 I think I remember reading that the first few 100k bitcoins still haven't been sent anywhere... 22:03:20 the nazi gold of reddit 22:03:22 so that paper Bike or whoever linked 22:03:26 so like, whoever invented it is a multi-millionaire 22:03:27 does anyone know what that november 2010 transaction actually was 22:03:32 was it pizza 22:03:36 i'm telling you man it's the pizas 22:03:47 bitcoin, founded upon pizza 22:04:01 (though, it'd be wonderfully schadenfreudetastic if it turned out satoshi lost hir wallet) 22:06:25 Bike: hahaha 22:06:32 the nazi gold of reddit 22:11:49 if bitcoin does survive, you know that people in 20 years will be looking through every discarded laptop for hidden treasure 22:13:12 treasure island w/ bitcoins? 22:14:10 i should get a bunch of blank CDs and write "BITCOINS" on them and hide them in various locations 22:14:25 maybe put like, 0.000001 of a bitcoin on each one? 22:14:43 or 0.000000 22:14:47 who stores things on cds these days 22:14:50 :) 22:14:50 xor with a nonce. :) 22:15:14 i don't think you can fit a paedophile on a disc pikhq 22:15:17 pikhq_: nah it should have enough apparent structure that people will go mad trying to decrypt it 22:15:23 paedocoins 22:15:42 oh gosh, this reminds me of um... Molyneux's cube thing 22:15:52 I'm imagining that, except like, with a promise of a bitcoin wallet in the center 22:15:53 curiosity 22:15:55 CURIOSITY 22:15:58 WHAT'S INSIDE THE CUBE 22:16:02 thx 22:16:03 and a swarm of redditors trying to get to the center of the cube 22:16:09 i honestly thought curiosity was a molydeux thing first 22:16:17 because i first heard of it from molydeux tweets referencing it 22:16:19 and i laughed 22:16:21 wasn't it what inspired molydeux 22:16:23 me too. he's practically self-parody XD 22:16:25 no it's reverse 22:16:32 is it bad when i heard of it i thought it sounded kind of cool 22:16:34 molyneux saw molydeux and was inspired to go and quit his job 22:16:37 and make curiosity 22:16:39 http://i0.wp.com/buttcoin.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/mtgoxmagiccard.jpg?resize=223%2C310 22:16:40 seriously 22:16:52 art imitates life imitates art 22:17:06 have they figured out curiosity yet 22:17:11 so is it true that mt gox is a repurposed mtg site 22:17:34 yes 22:17:38 sweet 22:17:48 magic the gathering online xchange 22:18:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt.Gox 22:18:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:19:44 oh hey they stopped trading yesterday 22:21:46 -!- carado_ has joined. 22:22:01 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:23:06 Are there any real-world codebases that use STM? 22:26:12 -!- ion has joined. 22:26:49 nope, they're all in fake worlds 22:27:44 I mean, code that actually serves a purpose that's not demonstrating STMs 22:28:29 apparently the founder of mtgox also made edonkey 22:28:49 oh what 22:28:53 and is also the guy who made Ripple 22:29:55 `addquote I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention 22:30:00 1020) I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention 22:30:19 ripple? 22:30:26 ripple 22:30:46 oh 22:31:31 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:31:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_monetary_system 22:32:00 it was cool before bitcoin! 22:32:10 and is also more interesting 22:32:54 oh wow i've actually heard of htis 22:33:11 "This structure means that it is simple to route payments to and from any participants, but is inherently full of single points of failure, which may also be characterized as single points of control." 22:38:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:47:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:49:30 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:50:12 kmc: what pdf reader do you use 22:50:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:51:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:55:43 -!- augur has joined. 22:58:54 are u gonna write sploit 22:59:11 evince mainly, sometimes xpdf, sometimes okular 22:59:14 sometimes google preview thingy 23:03:15 I start with pdf.js because my browser renders PDF files using it internally, then find that it’s frustratingly slow and/or renders the file horribly and click the button to open it in evince. 23:03:41 kmc: wow xpdf really 23:04:06 I like xpdf’s magnifier tool. 23:04:12 ion: hm, what browser? 23:04:15 elliott: Firefox 23:04:29 huh. 23:05:40 xpdf works even when evince is broken due to gnome bullshit 23:05:48 also consumes less ram or something 23:06:02 I don’t remember evince being broken ever. But sure, xpdf uses less resources. 23:06:10 Mozilla doesn't want Adobe to cash in on the lucrative user frustration market 23:06:20 next: swf.js 23:06:51 Well, SWF already uses JS for scripting. :-P 23:07:18 I'm fond of mupdf personally. 23:08:18 the firefox reader has been kind of frustrating for me, it works some of the time but on some files the table of contents window just doesn't work, like, I can't click on an entry to jump to it 23:08:22 which is really painful for 1500-page pdfs 23:08:39 Yeah, pdf.js seems rather silly. 23:08:49 i avoid reading 1500 page pdfs 23:08:55 PDF readers have issues being slow *without* running on a rather strange VM. 23:09:00 maintains my inner balance 23:09:13 I don't have much choice if I need to read intel manuals :< 23:09:26 ah, you have found another way in which i maintain my inner balance. 23:09:36 mupdf is pretty nice though. UI's kinda meh, but it's freaking awesome at rendering efficiently. 23:09:46 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:10:12 i use evince 23:10:17 i kind of want some kind of pdf manager 23:10:25 so i don't have to keep remembering what 58324.pdf is or whatever 23:10:26 mendeley? 23:10:32 i could give them proper names 23:10:34 but that's work 23:10:40 i give them proper names every few weeks 23:10:56 elliott: I use Calibre. 23:10:56 when I notice Downloads/48191_1891final.pdf\ (3) and decide enough is enough 23:10:56 mendeley was recently acquired by satan or something 23:11:04 Bike: is this some kind of web based thing 23:11:15 elliott: no Downloads is my folder for downloads. 23:11:20 kmc: elsevier? 23:11:24 no i mean 23:11:24 yeah them 23:11:25 mendeley 23:11:34 Oh. Uh, maybe? 23:11:40 this looks sort of like something i have no hope of using on linux 23:11:43 I also use Calibre to convert and send files to my Kindle. But i used it just to maintain a library of various ebooks, papers etc. before i had a Kindle. 23:11:56 elliott: I'm pretty sure enough academics use it for them to support it... 23:12:00 oh it has a linux version hmm 23:12:25 Well, now that it's Elsevier i'll need a goat to sacrifice to soil myself enough to use it, though 23:12:27 i would prefer something open source because i am a dweeb, but it certainly looks featureful 23:12:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_reference_management_software ah wikipedia 23:12:38 It’s open-source. 23:12:42 is it 23:12:47 i mean mendeley 23:12:48 not calibre 23:12:51 oh 23:12:59 calibre... might work for my needs 23:13:02 but there was that one security bug report 23:13:08 that makes it impossible for me to take the developer seriously 23:13:25 oh? 23:13:34 What bug report was that? 23:13:48 https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027 23:14:01 it's no longer relevant and didn't matter to anyone who used major distro packages for it, but 23:14:05 oh man that 23:14:08 the dev's attitude is really awful and eyeroll-y 23:14:13 so i am biased against the program now 23:14:40 "I dont see how 1-3 are security vulnerabilities." wow i forgot how terrible this was 23:14:41 Hah, awesome 23:15:11 Fix committed for the latest exploit. Feel free to re-open if you find another 23:15:11 exploit based on 4. 23:15:11 status fixreleased 23:15:14 exploit PoC 2.1 Edit (2.9 KiB, text/x-sh) 23:15:14 Updated the exploit. 23:15:16 Ah, realpath() 23:15:16 status fixreleased 23:15:23 "4 is a vulnerability only if 23:15:26 mount itself is vulnerable to command line injection." hahaha 23:15:30 i'm sure if you keep patching it over it'll be fine! 23:15:36 god i totally forgot about this it's amazing 23:17:10 how is that elsevier boycott going 23:18:19 well that one legislative thing got defeated a billion years ago so fine as far as i'm concerned 23:19:13 wooow. that bug report thread. 23:19:27 "Until this comment, I was on the side of fixing with the exploits. Now, as far as I am concerned you should go play frisbee on a freeway." 23:19:31 gosh, that guy is almost reminiscent of drepper. 23:19:39 things get heated in the high-stakes world of launchpad 23:19:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:20:31 hell is trying to find the superscript for a footnote you missed 23:20:46 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9985757/Iranian-scientist-claims-to-have-invented-time-machine.html anyway 23:20:54 WHAT ARE YOU COMMENTING ON REVEAL YOUR SECRETS TO ME 23:21:40 Bike: lol 23:22:34 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 23:22:47 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:22:47 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 23:22:47 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:23:29 Razeghi said his latest project has been criticised by friends and relatives for "trying to play God" with ordinary lives and history. 23:24:33 * ion laughed at “Ah, realpath(). status fixreleased” 23:26:22 `slist 23:26:23 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:27:43 Oh, so it is safe for me to use Calibre on Linux? 23:27:51 I may have been avoiding it somewhat 23:28:17 probably nobody's going to exploit it, the dev is just kind of a fool i guess 23:28:30 the dev gave in eventually 23:28:39 of course that's only the one bug we know about 23:28:57 Well it's the only binary that's suid, isn't it? 23:29:12 Apparently Fedora and probably other distros just remove that binary anyway. 23:30:19 you can have bad exploits without root 23:30:27 like your browser doesn't run as root either 23:33:24 elliott: sure an attacker can get my gmail password and all of my other passwords and basically take over my life and all my money, but that's no use if they can't send raw IP packets or set the system clock 23:33:39 damn straight 23:37:43 Oh man, another Calibre developer, Charles Haley (cbhaley), decided to join the discussion with a constructive message. 23:42:48 kmc: i should chown more things root 23:43:25 yes 23:43:30 alias yolo=sudo 23:45:07 is there a decent email client yet 23:45:13 like can i stop using gmail 23:47:25 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:49:18 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:50:29 -!- doesthiswork has left. 23:50:37 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:53:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:57:00 “Every time I was convinced of the existence of an actual exploit, I have attempted to fix it. Maybe my fixes were naive, but dont forget that it's a lot easier to find holes in something, than to build somethig without holes in the first place.” 2013-04-12: 00:08:04 -!- copumpkin has quit. 00:08:19 “I also admire him for not playing the racism card.” WAT 00:09:08 orientals. wow. 00:11:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:11:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 00:12:23 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:25:35 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:25:51 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:26:49 I think he's trying to be Linus Torvalds, except Linux actually knows what he's talking about 00:26:52 Linus* 00:30:23 itt: linus torvalds is a shit role model 00:33:11 Trying to imitate his attitude without having the credentials is bound to end up bad 00:33:50 @tell ais523 You seem to have missed User:EzraFrier 00:33:51 Consider it noted. 00:33:55 -!- bengt_ has joined. 00:34:08 you shouldn't emulate his attitude regardless 00:34:09 but yes 00:35:34 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 00:38:30 https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027/comments/90 00:40:22 what the hell is the GNAA 00:40:27 oh. oh. 00:40:41 FreeFull: being right about technical matters is really no excuse for being an asshole 00:40:58 Bike: gnus against acronyms 00:41:18 and Torvalds takes it a step further, he takes pride in offending people and thinks that if you're offended that's good because you deserve to be offended 01:11:58 -!- monqy has joined. 01:12:48 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:13:26 -!- augur has joined. 01:17:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:24:05 -!- augur has joined. 01:27:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:36:24 -!- dessos has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:38:30 -!- dessos has joined. 01:40:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:45:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:52:30 * Sgeo throws a FactoryBean at the channel 01:53:05 AGH FUCK MY EYE 01:53:17 Bike: Wow, you're into some extreme stuff. 01:53:50 oh haha that was just an expression, i meant to fuck my dessicated elbow, on the ground there 01:59:08 Sgeo: ?? 01:59:50 FactoryBean. A bean that acts as a factory. 02:00:01 ???????? 02:00:34 get with the program, monqy. 02:00:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:00:52 do you know what he's talking about, bike? 02:00:53 It's a Factory that has one specific way of retrieving a created object from it, and can have other properties, so can be configured in XML and you don't point at the factory directly when you want an instance from it 02:01:09 no but i don't really care so i'm just rolling with it 02:01:21 why would you throw that at the channel 02:02:53 hi monqy 02:02:59 hi shachaf 02:03:08 did you get my numerous @tells and @asks 02:03:16 yeah 02:03:21 what was that last one about 02:03:37 i don't remember 02:03:49 i usually forget as soon as i send them (or even before!!!!??) 02:03:53 something about friendship monqys, lots of !!!s 02:03:56 oh 02:04:00 `? monqy 02:04:02 The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 02:04:07 -!- c00kiemon5ter has left. 02:04:19 that doesn't explain anything… 02:04:29 i know it only raises more questions 02:04:35 like: what is the friendship monqy 02:04:39 yes 02:04:45 maybe you can answer 02:04:50 since itidus21 is gone 02:05:05 i sure don't know 02:05:28 i am pretty sure Journey to the West is involved somehow. 02:05:29 oh 02:05:42 hth. 02:09:07 I was impressed that dragons 3.5 times as many balls as I do 02:09:34 it does?? 02:09:46 *has 02:09:53 *have 02:10:07 it's hard to get my corrections correct 02:15:17 My job might literally save someone's life. 02:18:32 you make no-skid tape for bathtubs? 02:19:32 there's more than one way to save life's, doesthiswork 02:19:46 don't you work at an isp 02:19:55 for example you could install the no-skid tape 02:20:04 a very important step the in life saving procedure 02:20:09 Because of this job, I'm eating more, which is pushing me over 110 lbs, which means I can donate blood, which I plan to. 02:20:20 monqy: monqy how do you save life's monqy 02:20:29 shachaf: eating a lot 02:20:35 good thinking 02:20:47 if i eat a lot will i save life ' s 02:20:53 probably 02:21:10 you could also save lives by eating less 02:21:17 many way s to save lives 02:21:28 oh no 02:21:35 what about by eating exactly as much as im eating 02:21:38 "but on purpose" 02:21:50 hm 02:21:54 i'd have to think about that! 02:22:33 think monqy think 02:23:07 ···processing··· 02:23:08 i've come to the conclusion that you'll probably save ~the same # of lives regardless of how much you eat 02:23:17 oh no 02:23:39 is it because i have no free will 02:23:44 yeah 02:23:51 you're better off with the no-skid tape 02:24:00 think of the gain in life if you were a spermdonar 02:24:24 much more efficient use of fluid than blood donation 02:25:02 what if you donate both fluids 02:25:16 monqy: well they're interchangeable arent they.. 02:25:41 i don't think so, shachaf 02:34:34 monqy: can i have more monqy wisdom 02:35:08 no 02:35:40 thanks that was a good one 02:38:32 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:45:33 monqy: can i have less monqy wisdom 02:45:49 are you sure that's a good idea 02:46:14 do i need more monqy wisdom to decide if less monqy wisdom is a good idea 02:46:22 its a bad idea.................................................................................. 02:46:27 thanks shachaf 02:46:42 ywonqy 02:46:54 (i just called you wonqy btw) 02:47:01 it happens 02:47:31 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:47:35 gah not capitalizing I hurts 02:47:57 Sgeo: why does you hurts 02:48:05 not capitalizing is not a crime 02:48:16 were you trying out 'monqyspeak' 02:48:23 (what is that???) 02:48:38 (idont know but it sounds good) 02:48:45 (can i be a monqyspeak) 02:48:53 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:49:06 well i've heard someone say it before..i'll have to check my logs 02:49:12 !logs 02:49:20 ciao 02:49:23 !list 02:49:32 hey monqy guess where i am 02:49:49 you are in the universe hth 02:50:07 -!- augur has joined. 02:50:32 universe more like coolniverse 02:50:47 the joke is monqy++ 02:51:09 shachaf: is capitalizing a capital crime? 02:52:18 oerjan oerjan oerjan bama'agal nachoerjan 02:52:36 oerjan: ive been pronouncing your nick "as if it was dutch sorry about that" 02:53:38 horrijble 03:04:46 -!- bengt_ has joined. 03:13:07 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 03:20:45 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:21:29 shachaf: fix your subjunctive mood plox 03:22:04 quintopia: no 03:22:09 i reject "if it were" 03:22:22 Ahem. 03:22:25 s/no/No./ 03:22:27 oh okay 03:22:28 but 03:22:29 s/i/I/ s/$/./ 03:22:34 it sounds better you know 03:22:37 so 03:22:39 No, it sounds worse. 03:22:43 why do you like sounding worse 03:22:52 I like sounding better. 03:22:59 checkmate 03:23:29 then use the correct subjunctive and you can sound better like me and the rest of the high-prestige dialecters 03:23:58 @karma+ quintopia.prestige 03:23:59 quintopia.prestige's karma raised to 1. 03:36:09 I added something in RogueVM that was missing: Now there is a file for enumeration to make up names of the possible values that a configuration parameter can have. There is also the specification for a "death message" in the high-score list. 03:37:01 Is this better now? 03:38:22 Is it possible for a good serious philosophical text to be written consisting entirely of questions? 03:39:17 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:48:54 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 03:49:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:51:27 kmc: "I finally said it, my startup failed. Fuck. I felt like I was coming out of the closet when I first stated it aloud to my co-founder." 03:51:31 kmc: thought u would appreciate 03:51:46 ~_~ 03:51:51 haha 03:51:55 o well 03:53:18 what the hell 03:53:32 like beyond the general what-ness, if the startup failed how would the cofounder not know 03:54:02 admitting something very risky didn't work -- totally the same as coming out about ones' sexuality 03:54:38 but i mean in this terrible, horrible analogy, isn't the cofounder like some homogendered person you've been going out with 03:55:11 aren't they all in the closet. the closet must encapsulate the founders right 04:18:47 -!- monqy has joined. 04:19:34 `addquote :D :D oh man.. i wonder if they ever made chess variants based off of animes 04:19:38 1021) :D :D oh man.. i wonder if they ever made chess variants based off of animes 04:19:45 for some reason this quote has vanished from the qdb 04:19:50 now it's back 04:20:20 i miss itidus21 04:20:34 sort of 04:42:40 -!- conehead has joined. 04:43:32 -!- Gregor has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:44:15 -!- copumpkin has quit. 05:06:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:13:11 Make up some such chess variant if you want. Actually I made "Kira Chess" which is based on "Death Note". 05:13:20 There may be others too; I don't know. 05:15:07 zzo38: i thought you would have 05:16:12 zzo38: so do you not care about the twoducks thing? 05:16:53 Bike: Actually I don't know the answer. Post on the talk page. 05:17:55 I would like to see the discussion, so put it in the talk page. 05:17:59 the talk page already contains a TC-ness discussion 05:18:07 I'll see what I can d- oh, huh. 05:18:08 You can discuss in here too if you have something to say, of course. 05:18:30 Well it seems TC to me, he disagreed, based on Aaronson's work on computation in CTCs. 05:19:11 It may be interesting. Can you please be more specific? 05:20:06 what is the twoducks thing 05:21:15 Friend and I got into an argument about whether it was computable. 05:21:40 I didn't really understand what he meant, which is why I thought you'd be better off talking to hi, if you cared. 05:21:46 I'll show him the talk page and see what happens. 05:21:48 i'm pretty sure it's not computbale 05:21:49 computable 05:28:32 Can all statements of number theory be made into programs which halt if and only if the statement is true? What is the required computation class to do this, if it is possible at all? 05:36:06 zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%27s_theorem looks relevant 05:36:38 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarski-Kuratowski_algorithm 05:38:04 OK, I will look 05:40:41 but to summarize, whenever you switch between universal and existential quantifiers, you need to add another level of halting oracle 05:40:48 iiuc 05:41:10 That is what I thought, actually. 05:42:14 I thought it might be something like that, so know I can know better that it is something like that. 05:50:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:35:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 06:38:25 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:00:34 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:10:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 07:15:52 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:16:41 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:18:33 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:30:14 -!- carado has joined. 07:31:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:35:53 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:57:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 08:05:30 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:05:45 -!- elliott has joined. 08:20:54 -!- ion has quit (Quit: server maintenance). 08:40:47 -!- ion has joined. 08:55:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:06:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:21:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:25:09 Now I managed to make a Z-machine assembler working. 09:30:19 -!- ion has quit (Quit: more server maintenance). 09:38:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:42:25 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:44:13 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:50:45 -!- ion has joined. 09:54:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 09:59:43 -!- yiyus has joined. 10:00:48 `slist 10:00:56 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 10:01:08 Potato. 10:03:39 Taneb: wow i was just thinking "nice sarcasm, taneb's growing up" 10:03:41 but you ruined it 10:03:54 elliott, sarcasm makes me uncomfortable 10:04:22 I have two many sarcastic frienemies 10:05:10 only two? 10:05:26 No, two many 10:05:33 Imagine many sarcastic frienemies 10:05:39 I have precisely twice that amount 10:07:21 I guess you mean "two[U+2062 INVISIBLE TIMES]many". 10:09:43 Yeah, my invisible times key is broken 10:10:33 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:10:56 My invisible times key is invisible :/ 10:11:09 I've never been able to figure out where it is 10:11:16 I don't think I like Ghoul_ 10:11:37 * ThatOtherPerson reads logs to gain much needed context 10:13:03 ThatOtherPerson, #haskell 10:13:07 ah 10:14:35 well this is a waste of time 10:14:50 good thing mauke is more persistent than I am 10:15:14 I've seen that name somewhere. 10:15:28 Oh, #perl. 10:15:54 (Is it legal to be a Perl and a Haskell guy at the same time?) 10:15:56 also #esoteric 10:16:09 for a while 10:16:20 i think he might be both a #haskell op and a #perl op too 10:16:33 double impossible 10:17:00 (INVISIBLE TIMES actually exists? huh.) 10:19:38 Along with INVISIBLE SEPARATOR and INVISIBLE PLUS, and the still-invisible-but-not-explicitly-so FUNCTION APPLICATION. 10:21:04 Not to mention the zero-width space 10:21:20 Perhaps they dared not to name it INVISIBLE FUNCTION APPLICATION, fearing that people would interpret it as (INVISIBLE FUNCTION) APPLICATION instead of INVISIBLE (FUNCTION APPLICATION). 10:21:36 ... unicode is kinda weird 10:22:19 "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) 10:23:50 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 10:23:53 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:27:00 May you live in ⁢ 10:27:12 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:27:15 > length "⁢" 10:27:15 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 10:27:28 -!- ion_ has joined. 10:27:42 -!- ion_ has changed nick to ion. 10:28:13 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:28:30 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 10:29:02 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 10:37:16 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:41:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:54:21 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 10:58:12 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:05:14 I've had 4 parcels go missing in a month. From 4 different consignees. 1 in 1430 chance of each going missing. There's more chance of winning the lottery twice in a week. 11:31:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:32:20 -!- carado_ has joined. 11:34:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:36:46 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:51:45 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:52:37 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:55:01 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:05:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:08:24 -!- kallisti has joined. 12:08:25 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 12:08:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 12:08:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:17:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:26:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:28:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:30:25 i agree 12:30:50 Wow, I didn't think I was capable of that 12:31:28 i wasnt talking to you 12:31:54 Perhaps Taneb wasn't talking to you either 12:32:12 Considering that you both said something at the same time 12:32:17 Indeed, the most likely scenario is that we were having completely separate conversations 12:32:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 12:32:53 The only way that Taneb could have been responding to you would be if Taneb was a bot 12:34:09 Taneb: by the way, if you are a bot, I believe that you have passed the Turing test 12:34:15 Sweet! 12:34:30 You hear that, fungot? I'm better than you! 12:34:31 Taneb: other than the ones than ran on vacuum tubes, from the outside) 12:35:10 But I am not a bot. 12:35:21 I was referring to the fact that I think I have a girlfriend now 12:36:11 I don't think bots normally have girlfriends 12:36:21 Do you have a girlfriend, fungot? 12:36:21 ThatOtherPerson: there's two. 12:36:24 ... 12:36:29 fungot, what a lad. 12:36:29 Taneb: the previous ones. like fnord is an interesting problem 12:36:40 `? quoteformat 12:36:42 Apparently I was wrong. 12:36:43 quoteformat? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:37:09 `addquote Do you have a girlfriend, fungot? ThatOtherPerson: there's two. 12:37:09 Taneb: the stuff ' between' built-in module systems, is a _string_ of things, not including srfi 1. 12:37:13 1022) Do you have a girlfriend, fungot? ThatOtherPerson: there's two. 12:37:36 :D 12:37:55 `quote no not markov 12:37:56 574) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov 12:38:05 Taneb: wow one too many spaces!!! 12:38:07 fungot's lucidness comes and goes 12:38:07 Taneb: pastebin that is not of interest to the mud, so people who like c, perl, and php apps right now 12:38:14 elliott, I always get it wrong :( 12:41:15 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:41:37 -!- hogeyui has joined. 12:42:48 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:47:00 -!- ion has joined. 13:04:07 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:04:11 -!- boily has joined. 13:07:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:08:04 -!- augur has joined. 13:12:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:20:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:44:35 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:45:14 ⁢ 13:45:44 ...quite 13:45:54 > length "⁢" 13:45:55 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 13:46:09 Taneb: I think that's invisible times 13:46:10 ~eval length "⁢" 13:46:11 ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓ 13:46:13 Error (1): 13:46:36 ~eval length "" 13:46:38 0 13:47:12 boily, those quotes aren't empty 13:47:19 oh. 13:47:32 try again, mu-eval had to be loaded into RAM. 13:47:55 ~eval length "⁢" 13:47:56 Error (1): :1:9: 13:47:56 lexical error in string/character literal at character '\8290' 13:48:00 hello⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢ there 13:48:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:48:25 ^ try selecting that 13:48:38 heh, my client has quite a problem with it 13:48:45 ~eval "hello⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢⁢ there" == "hello there" 13:48:45 Error (1): :1:7: 13:48:46 lexical error in string/character literal at character '\8290' 13:49:51 ~eval showHex 8290 "" 13:49:51 Error (1): Not in scope: `showHex' 13:50:36 ~eval showHex 8290 "" 13:50:42 "2062" 13:50:47 ⁢ 13:51:36 -!- augur has joined. 13:52:25 ~eval length "hello\8290there" 13:52:26 11 14:00:00 -!- heroux has joined. 14:02:28 Is it bad that I know Owen Wilson best for acting in a terrible movie that is also fictional? 14:04:01 Which movie is that? 14:04:09 Most movies that I know of are fictional. 14:05:13 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 14:05:46 ThatOtherPerson, Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff: The Movie 14:05:57 :D 14:06:09 Starring Owen Wilson as Hella Jeff and Ben Stiller as Sweet Bro 14:06:10 Ah, that's more fictional then most movies 14:07:23 It is also terrible. 14:07:33 I don't think there is any movie that is more terrible. 14:07:42 I don't think it would be possible. 14:08:24 ...he also played Lightning McQueen in Cars 14:10:25 I just had an excellent idea for a movie! 14:10:47 It would be a movie about making the movie... erm, the movie which is itself 14:10:57 Sounds a bit like Marble Hornets 14:11:00 RECURSION MAN 420 14:11:01 Well 14:11:18 It sounds like what Marble Hornets would have been if it wasn't a horror story 14:11:34 It would be the closest thing to a quine that a movie can be! 14:12:20 You could make a movie where the video is a quine in Piet and the soundtrack is a quine in I think Fugue 14:12:54 Phantom_Hoover, I have bad news 14:13:19 Hm, someone should extend Piet so that it can run movie files 14:13:30 It can run animated gifs, ish 14:13:37 So it would be more or less three dimensional 14:14:09 You'd need to define the size of the three-dimensional voxels 14:14:20 Seeing as time is a different "thing" to pixel size 14:14:48 I guess a frame would be equivalent to the size of a pixel 14:15:07 If it's something like a .GIF, frames could have different lengths 14:15:17 huh, I guess someone could try making Befunge three dimensional as well 14:15:26 Been done 14:15:36 except for the part where it is extremely difficult to type in 3d 14:15:51 Taneb, what's the bad news 14:15:51 funge-98 already specifies 3-dimensional funge 14:15:59 Phantom_Hoover, "Noodle Soup" 14:16:18 holy mary mother of god 14:16:20 so soon... 14:16:30 ? 14:16:32 i'll... i'll start the protocol 14:16:54 ThatOtherPerson, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Noodle_Soup 14:16:57 elliott, now executing contingency MARPLE 14:17:02 Phantom_Hoover: hi 14:17:06 Ooh, this is new 14:17:06 i... oh 14:17:12 ABORT MARPLE 14:17:33 Taneb you have to be clearer with these things 14:17:41 nooodl soup 14:17:53 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:18:05 Taneb: ah, that's what I thought all programming languages looked like when I was six 14:18:49 ThatOtherPerson, I remember typing in a terminal in a computer in my garage when I was three 14:19:06 So I thought all computer programs had to be white text on a black background 14:19:17 heh 14:19:58 The first time I used the Command Prompt in Windows was when I was ten 14:20:05 It really amazed me for some reason 14:20:25 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 14:20:59 And if I ever use a command line at school people look over my shoulder and ask me, in wonder, what I am hacking 14:21:27 -!- Gregor has joined. 14:23:53 -!- atriq has joined. 14:24:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:25:02 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 14:25:14 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:25:21 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 14:35:46 -!- super13 has joined. 14:49:38 when i was young, program code was like white text on blue screen (which was a significant improvement to that green on black monochrome era).. but we peeked and poked it just the way we wanted to 14:50:13 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 14:50:35 but green on black is coming back again 14:50:47 -!- super14 has joined. 14:51:01 hagb4rd: green on black is retro and hip. 14:51:32 the only time I suffered through white on blue was with word perfect on 5¼ floppies. 14:52:08 yes, i like that writer addon for chrome..do you know it? 14:52:38 http://hackertyper.net/ 14:52:45 it even has that typewriter sounds <3 14:53:15 -!- super13 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:54:21 kmc: L0L 14:54:42 is that a leet LOL 14:55:05 http://writer.bighugelabs.com/?chrome=1 14:55:35 the colors are cool.. but the font sucks 14:55:44 @hackertyper 14:55:44 Unknown command, try @list 14:56:04 but all in all that's it 14:56:06 @lisp 14:56:06 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 14:56:36 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 14:56:38 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 14:56:48 @tuple "hello" 14:56:50 [Char] 14:56:57 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 14:56:57 Exception: <> 14:57:38 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 14:57:39 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\" 14:58:13 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 14:58:13 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 14:58:30 > iterate show "" 14:58:32 ["","\"\"","\"\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\... 14:58:57 > map (map length . group) $ iterate show "" 14:58:59 [[],[2],[1,1,1,1,2],[1,1,1,3,1,3,1,1,2],[1,1,1,3,1,7,1,7,1,3,1,1,2],[1,1,1,... 14:59:01 ~eval iterate show "" 14:59:02 ["","\"\"","\"\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 14:59:04 > iterate (iterate show) 14:59:06 Couldn't match type `GHC.Base.String' with `GHC.Types.Char' 14:59:12 wattattattattat 14:59:20 > iterate (fix error) 14:59:22 Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> a0' 14:59:22 with actual type `[GHC... 14:59:30 > fix iterate 14:59:31 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = [a0] 14:59:41 oh come on. be cool. 15:00:34 ~yi 15:00:34 Your divination: "Field" to "Field" 15:07:46 -!- conehead has joined. 15:12:26 > fix (undefined) 15:12:27 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 15:12:46 > map group $ iterate show "" 15:12:47 [[],["\"\""],["\"","\\","\"","\\","\"\""],["\"","\\","\"","\\\\\\","\"","\\... 15:13:10 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:13:55 > map (map text . group) $ iterate show "" 15:13:56 [[],[""],[",\,",\,""],[",\,",\\\,",\\\,",\,""],[",\,",\\\,",\\\\\\\,",\\\\\... 15:25:21 `quote ThatOtherPerson 15:25:23 1022) Do you have a girlfriend, fungot? ThatOtherPerson: there's two. 15:25:30 bahahaha 15:25:44 fungot: ^5 15:25:45 kmc: it's only the win32 directory. ( about perl arrays) i think i associate it with pretentiousness and lack of active development. while a certain level of code maturity before throwing a language into the mix 15:28:39 pretty sane philosophy. 15:29:36 fungot: do your girlfriends know each other? are they cool with it? do they also have sexytimes together? 15:29:36 kmc: it was very effective, but its not working for me either. i would always use when unless over a single branch cond... the name is passed as argument 0 15:29:49 fungot: sorry to hear it's not working for you :/ 15:29:50 kmc: it also doesn't fully explain fnord.... tell her i'm your cousin! 15:29:55 fungot: will do 15:29:55 kmc: i was half-joking. 15:30:13 kmc, fungot's lucidness is worrying 15:30:13 Taneb: being flexible data structures, because you can't free in python, you'll like it 15:30:17 kmc and fungot are related? 15:30:18 boily: so about half real dumb way ( and doing 250 iterations) :) y z i think it deserves a mention, of course 15:34:40 we're related within 250 iterations I guess 15:34:55 i think i'm related to everyone alive today within 250 iterations? 15:36:27 hm not quite 15:37:22 I think everyone is at least 99% isomorphic to anybody else. 15:38:21 looks like the most recent common ancestor of all living humans was like 2,000 - 4,000 years ago 15:38:50 which is probably just a bit more than 250 generations 15:39:11 `quote unborn sister 15:39:12 with 30 year generations, it's around approximatively about 300 generations. 15:39:13 32) i'm my dad's unborn sister 15:39:28 historically, generations are probably a lot shorter 15:39:31 I can imagine kmc and Phantom_Hoover being relatively closely related 15:39:45 is that because they're both grumpy 15:39:54 -!- monqy has joined. 15:40:04 I'm currently reading “Time Enough for Love”. the prospect of long-lived humans makes for very strange genealogical mutant loopy trees. 15:40:36 elliott, it's because I seem to remember kmc having a scottish-y/irish-y surname, and Phantom_Hoover is scottish-y/irish-y 15:40:45 LOGIC 15:40:50 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:41:09 yeah i'm a McAllister 15:41:24 I think I have recent-ish British ancestors 15:41:32 mine are irish. 15:41:33 haven't much looked into it though 15:42:13 My mum's side mostly comes from the anglo-scottish borders and also County Durham 15:42:20 my first name is irish / gaelic / celtic / whatever, but my parents mostly just picked it because it sounds cool 15:42:29 they both had super common names growing up 15:42:37 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:42:59 My first name's Hebrew, as is my brother's, as is my mum's, but as far as I know I have no connections to Israel 15:43:32 Or Judaism 15:44:21 ok 15:44:25 how did you end up with these names? 15:44:54 My mum's name is an old family name, she was named after her aunt 15:45:05 My name was chosen because my parents didn't know any Nathans 15:45:18 Then they started seeing Nathans all over the place 15:45:32 And my brother's name they thought suited him perfectly 15:46:56 -!- yiyus has joined. 15:48:32 My name is Hebrew as well 15:48:35 I believe 15:48:54 hmm, TIL that chloroplasts have their own DNA and are thought to be descended from bacteria that colonized other cells, similar to mitochondria 15:48:55 Many names in the States come from Hebrew 15:49:06 ThatOtherPerson, it's David, right? 15:49:09 yep 15:49:14 Definitely Hebrew 15:49:33 A lot of names in Europe come from Hebrew 15:49:35 ah, I don't think of that as a "Hebrew name", even though it obviously is 15:49:38 kmc: yeah, I remember mitochondria and chloroplasts having many things in common 15:49:40 just because it's common 15:49:49 and something that lots of christians pick as well as jews 15:50:00 Sean I think is Hebrew 15:50:16 imo it's not a hebrew name unless you spell it using hebrew letters, right shachaf 15:50:22 Which probably has something to do with Christianity having come from the same roots as Judaism 15:50:46 Taneb: coincidentally, Sean is my middle name 15:50:59 My middle name's not Hebrew at all 15:51:07 What is it? 15:51:18 "George" 15:51:24 Greek, via Latin 15:52:40 In Arabic my name is داوود‎ 15:53:25 Daoud, transliterated 15:53:58 and my surname's Norse via Dutch 15:58:25 -!- super14 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 16:11:07 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 16:13:18 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:20:33 huh that's actually supposed to be written as 5 discrete letters? 16:20:42 i thought my terminal was fucking it up, but seems that way 16:21:56 two of them are ?s in diamonds for me 16:21:58 i blame mosh 16:22:01 my first name is irish / gaelic / celtic / whatever, but my parents mostly just picked it because it sounds cool 16:22:04 you too huh 16:22:24 my parents actually went and asked some relative who knew irish what the stupidest possible spelling was 16:22:50 what's your first name again 16:22:57 it's the one that isn't ahdahdnhmdahdnamnaín 16:23:03 mdhanhwrnwhervnhwercmn? 16:23:18 yes, that one 16:23:25 how is it pronounced 16:23:42 It's something common with some white noise tacked on the end 16:23:45 Adamfwheuigha eyghvbearyugeryuafbgvs 16:24:44 llanfairpwllgwyngyll 16:25:05 short for llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch 16:25:12 kmc, that's welsh 16:25:23 its pronounced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y_rm2i1YtE&t=1m14s 16:26:09 Phantom_Hoover, ... 16:28:35 yep 16:30:19 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 16:31:02 was that the joke 16:35:32 I am the joke. 16:35:35 -!- Bike has joined. 16:35:42 I am the eggman 16:35:56 i am the robotnik 16:36:28 i'm the scatman 16:36:35 goo goo g'joob 16:37:41 so apparently there is now a character named after me in one of them video computer games 16:37:50 and the fuckers didn't even pronounce it right 16:38:29 evil mastermind mc cool 16:38:44 pantsom hover 16:40:13 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 16:40:20 "I am the walrus" would work relatively well as a screamo song 16:41:14 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Quit: Bye). 16:41:25 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 16:41:37 Sadly I do not have a screamo band. 16:41:45 And I am no Oli Sykes 16:42:04 (who's actually metalcore...) 16:42:35 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:42:50 kmc: huh, they think these too apparently are in that category of "organelles that were originally bacteria" 16:42:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroxisome 16:42:56 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycosome 16:43:37 neat 16:46:07 evolution during the precambrian era must have been all kinds of nutty. like, with all the bacteria just kind of doing anything and everything 16:46:34 -!- carado has joined. 16:47:04 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 16:47:09 -!- carado_ has joined. 16:47:29 evolution was so much better in the precambrian when organisms were willing to take risks and be inventive 16:47:40 now we just get the same old eukaryote crap churned out year after year 16:48:18 It also seems that on land, there are an awful, awful lot of insects 16:48:41 Phantom_Hoover: it's all sex's fault 16:48:49 sexual reproduction made everything so ~boring~ 16:49:01 yeah, it's all anything cares about these days 16:49:11 we should find every eukaryote on the planet and substitute a rock for their core 16:49:13 to bring back the good times, we need to get rid of sex. 16:49:19 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:49:24 isn't everything sex's fault 16:49:35 (is Koen_ suggesting we brickbrain the planet) 16:49:37 -!- carado has joined. 16:49:49 oh right, a brick 16:49:57 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:50:06 bricknucleusing, Taneb 16:50:07 Koen_, learn Haskell 16:50:11 it's a very different procedure 16:50:32 Phantom_Hoover, I shall defer to your expertise 16:50:37 Taneb, you wish 16:50:40 Fiora: not big on red queen, are you 16:50:49 basically it's like IVF but with a brick 16:53:18 I was being silly -_- 16:53:22 but you have a point xD 16:53:57 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:54:04 I was reading today that sexual reproduction helped defeat parasites 16:57:41 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:59:51 I heard differently but ok 17:00:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:02:44 -!- carado has joined. 17:03:13 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:03:24 even prokaryotes have a mechanism analogous to sex, because it allows you to get rid of really sucky genes and get better ones 17:03:53 Alas, I am genetically predisposed against asexual production 17:04:29 Racist. 17:04:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:04:34 you just have to learn to mitose 17:05:13 y chromosomes are basically asexual because they never recombine 17:05:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacterial_conjugation ah 17:05:32 so that's how that works! 17:05:47 doesthiswork: Almost never. 17:05:47 which is why there are all kinds of fun x-linking things like color blindness and male pattern baldness 17:05:58 doesthiswork: In some cases they end up recombining with the X chromosome. 17:06:11 doesn't that generate a whole mess of disorders? 17:06:15 pikhq_: You're right, there are almost no absolute in biology 17:06:18 This ends up doing fun things like putting sex-determining region Y on the X. Giving you an XX male. 17:06:23 Fiora: *Can*. 17:06:26 Not necessarily. 17:06:32 right, like that one 17:06:42 The Y chromosome is basically a bunch of junk and a single gene that triggers being male. 17:06:46 or XY female where the sex determining part of Y goes on vacation 17:06:55 * pikhq_ nods 17:07:13 Vacation is nice. 17:07:28 sex chromosomes are really interesting, I was reading about all the kinds of disorders that go along with them the other day 17:07:46 XXY, X, XXXY, XXYY 17:07:56 band names 17:08:03 * Fiora has a neice with 'X' (Turner Syndrome) 17:08:07 *niece 17:08:14 in fruit flies they count how many x chromosome duplicates there are compared to the autosomal chromosome duplicates, if it's 1:1 then it's a girl if it's 1:2 then it's a boy 17:08:29 o_O 17:08:37 so you can get super female fruit flies by adding more x chromosomes 17:08:38 oh, i thought the ones where you only got one sex chromosomes generally killed you 17:08:52 Bike_: single X is an exception, I think? 17:08:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:09:01 Bike_: The Y chromosome is nearly useless. 17:09:02 the results vary, it can be pretty bad or not very bad 17:09:31 It's literally a single gene. Meaning that it *might* not be a big deal. 17:09:35 (she's lucky, other than stunted growth (which is somewhat vixable with hormones) she's pretty much largely normal.) 17:09:43 hm, Turner doesn't cause cognitive impairment 17:09:59 "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder or ADHD (problems with concentration, memory, attention with hyperactivity seen mostly in childhood and adolescence) 17:09:59 Nonverbal Learning Disability (problems with math, social skills and spatial relations)" -- WP 17:10:36 hello 17:11:01 Hi! 17:11:02 I think they say with hormones she'll end up being around 4'11" or so 17:11:09 i think you can get up to 5 X chromosomes 17:11:21 ... oh right! I think I also knew someone in college who had Turner mosaicism, which is even weirder 17:11:36 part of your body only has one X, the rest is XX? 17:11:42 I think so, yeah 17:11:46 yeah 17:12:03 she wasn't diagnosed because mosaicness is trickier, I think 17:12:13 well, wasn't diagnosed early 17:12:25 x inactivation is interesting 17:13:01 it's how we get tortishell cats 17:14:58 *tortoiseshell 17:15:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squitten 17:16:15 :( 17:17:14 -!- oonbotti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:18:06 so wait, are ginger cats called something else outside the uk 17:18:17 Kung Pao 17:18:55 racist 17:19:27 Phantom_Hoover: not that I know of 17:21:43 sexual reproduction in fungi is even weirder 17:21:59 fungi are alien 17:22:03 are we back to that again? 17:22:55 ~duck fungus 17:22:56 A fungus is a member of a large group of eukaryotic organisms that includes microorganisms such as yeasts and molds, as well as the more familiar mushrooms. 17:23:00 I still have trauma from learning about plant reproduction in biology, though 17:23:15 It's all so much more complicated than I imagined 17:24:10 I once hit a classmate over the head with a biology schoolbook. considering the excessive weight of these manuals, I think I hurt him. 17:24:48 i remember biology at school 17:24:54 plant reproduction is really cool 17:25:47 they had to split the class in two because so many people took it in their last year 17:25:59 meanwhile there were 6 who took physics 17:29:53 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:30:05 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 17:30:16 I took both, am I a heretic :< 17:30:45 did you know in olden times hermaphroditic plants were called "perfect" 17:30:59 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:31:28 Fiora, well I took both too, but I think I'm the only one who did. 17:31:30 Fiora: I took both too, and also I also took chemistry 17:31:40 Today the term is reserved for humans. 17:31:44 @google biophysics 17:31:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophysics 17:31:46 Title: Biophysics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 17:31:49 And I'm certainly not the only one who took both at my school 17:31:51 And I ended up dropping out when no universities gave it as a condition. 17:32:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophysical_chemistry 17:32:45 @google relativistic quantum chemistry 17:32:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_quantum_chemistry 17:32:47 Title: Relativistic quantum chemistry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 17:32:54 (that one's my favorite of fields that are a mix of other fields, I think) 17:33:14 @google biophysical chemistry 17:33:17 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/03014622 17:33:17 it just sounds so cool. 17:33:44 -!- super14 has joined. 17:34:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:36:36 that's the one where you end up predicting the breakdown of the periodic table isn't it 17:37:53 Medvedev was a pretty cool guy 17:38:25 *Mendelev 17:38:29 *whatshisname 17:39:31 Preved Mendelev 17:39:42 he crossbred peas and didn't afraid of anything 17:40:08 Phantom_Hoover: it's like, among other things the reason why gold is gold 17:40:25 (at higher atomic masses relativity starts affecting electron shells and thus chemistry) 17:40:33 yes, i learnt that during my metallurgy hipster phase 17:42:08 MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN: http://i.imgur.com/ADwE9im.jpg 17:42:23 /r/bitcoin? 17:42:26 Another reason gold is gold: reflexivity of equality 17:42:44 gold (noun) is gold (color) -_- XD 17:42:45 monqy, subreddit for bitcoin discussion, presumably 17:42:49 it's a libertarian's wet dream 17:42:58 Taneb: but why 17:43:02 PRESUMABLY! THAT'S THE WORD I WAS THINKING ABOUT 17:43:08 For discussion bitcoins, of course 17:43:12 but why 17:43:17 DISCUSSION BITCOINS 17:43:26 I don't know why, but I couldn't remember the word for a while there 17:43:29 I was very scared 17:43:48 monqy: maybe they're bored and have nothing else to do 17:43:55 Phantom_Hoover: wow, bitcoins got up to being worth 30°C 17:44:36 also is the point of that graph "stop worrying guys it's just as stable as local weather" 17:44:42 because i would not invest in the weather 17:45:10 it's "well yeah bitcoin prices are following the exact same trend as the dot com bubble but this time it's different" 17:46:10 I'm glad I don't yet care about bitcoins 17:46:38 I don't care that I don't care about bitcoins, because I really don't care about them. 17:47:24 Phantom_Hoover: c.c 17:47:38 you know if my local absolute temperature decreased by 70% in one day, I would be pretty worried 17:48:08 (aren't temperatures a thing percentages don't make sense for?) 17:48:16 there was also a post explaining why the bubble hasn't burst that literally opened with "bitcoin is different" 17:48:21 you couldn't make it up 17:48:38 Taneb: it makes sense if you use scale where 0 = absolute zero 17:48:48 hear soon they'll be worth $10k 17:49:02 -!- oonbotti has joined. 17:49:20 kmc, yeah but temperature represents something absolutely mad mathematically 17:49:30 unlike everything else in math 17:49:31 it's the derivative of entropy wrt thermal energy i think 17:49:40 seems p. legit 17:50:06 also if your local temperature went down by 70% in one day i think you'd be more "dead" than "worried" 17:50:26 worried first, then dead 17:50:27 i thought it was just based on the average kinetic energy of particles 17:50:38 there's a clever play on words here based on liquidity but i'm not sure what it is 17:50:40 wp says E = ½kT 17:50:47 not that it isn't also that thing you said 17:51:34 let's see, if the temperature here went down by 70% it would be... -189°C 17:51:42 "bet i could take it" 17:51:58 my cold tolerance isn't so good. 17:52:08 all your assets would freeze 17:52:14 no that's shit 17:52:55 oh huh, that low temp. at vostok base was lower than the freezing point of CO2 17:53:03 er the sublimation point 17:53:27 breathing must be difficult 17:53:39 "all your assets would freeze" 17:53:42 * Fiora begins gigglefit 17:54:01 yes i seem to have introduced another pun accidentally 17:54:38 "(Warning: 27 Mar 2013 - sublimation video contains java exploit malware, do not run the programme)" thanks wikipedia 17:54:45 Fiora, if you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen 17:55:00 that was worse. 17:55:00 -!- super15 has joined. 17:55:07 (I thaw-t it was pretty funny) 17:55:17 no shut up 17:55:24 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:55:33 :☺) 17:55:36 * boily gently flogs Taneb with a slightly congealed cuttlefish 17:56:07 Taneb: your puns are truly sublime. 17:56:08 I wasn't expecting such an icy reception 17:56:09 kinky 17:56:15 -!- super14 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:56:25 holy christ, there were people /at/ the station 17:56:45 imo this needs to be phase diagram in the bud 17:56:45 Quick someone give me a github repo url! 17:56:47 how did they like it 17:56:59 "An average windspeed of 5 m/s" what the fuck is wrong with antarctica 17:57:01 ThatOtherPersonY, github.com/ekmett/lens 17:57:17 ThatOtherPersonY: pfcuttle/SFL-Heritage 17:57:17 http://starlogs.net/#ekmett/lens 17:57:23 ^ click 17:57:55 is this some sort of male-ware ive been hearing about 17:58:02 malewear 17:58:11 add failing and ifailing 17:58:30 * Fiora just glomps taneb because puns 17:58:35 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Wostok-Station_core32.jpg "yeah sure this is a place humans can live in" 17:58:35 omg if i highlight text it does it in proper perspective 17:58:43 A MARVEL FOR OUR TIMES 17:59:52 Bike: yes 18:00:39 Phantom_Hoover: But we already have a Marvel! It's part of a company called Disney, which, incidentally, is the parent company of Lucasfilm, the company which made Star Wars, upon which that scrolling log thingy is based. 18:00:44 Fiora, you're making my heart melt 18:01:15 that sounds fatal 18:02:59 aw ;w; 18:03:29 Quick! We must get the Ice Queen to freeze Taneb's heart! 18:03:43 and maybe make some ice cream too, that would be nice. 18:03:51 ice cream! 18:03:54 can it be chocolate 18:03:58 it's been like 3 minutes he's probably dead by now 18:04:02 ThatOtherPersonY, the shop in Hexham that sells nice ice cream closed down 18:04:12 yes, it would be wonderful if it was chocolate 18:04:36 Taneb: aw, that's terrible. But it should be enough to freeze your heart! 18:04:42 Yay! It all works out! 18:04:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:05:31 Taneb: I'm not sure if there's a shop that sells ice cream within sixty miles of me 18:05:52 Well, I guess there is a shop that sells ice cream, but not an ice cream shop. 18:05:53 ThatOtherPersonY, that's your own fault for living in a desert country as opposed to a dessert country 18:06:02 ikr 18:06:35 A dessert country would be wonderful, with ice cream mountains and chocolate waterfalls 18:06:56 The nearest shop that specializes in ice cream is probably about 12 miles away 18:07:17 -!- super15 has left. 18:11:00 wow what kind of icecreamless wasteland is this 18:11:36 Phantom_Hoover: the one I am in is Saudi Arabia 18:11:53 that sounds bad 18:12:01 It's not really that bad 18:12:16 and yet you say there is no ice cream 18:12:45 You can get ice cream at the store 5 minutes away, but there isn't a shop that specializes in ice cream for a ways 18:13:29 * boily nervously checks on google maps... 18:14:02 everything is fine. there's a gelateria within half a kilometre. 18:14:03 you're in canada though 18:14:05 do canadians also use "octets" instead of bytes? 18:14:17 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:14:18 olsner: in French, yes. 18:14:51 there are some disputes over the proper pronunciation of giga- (with a soft or a hard g), but otherwise everything's pretty consistent. 18:15:09 ~metar CYUL 18:15:10 CYUL 121813Z 06018KT 3/4SM R06L/3000V5000FT/D R06R/3500V6000FT/D -SN VV006 M00/M01 A2991 RMK SN8 SLP131 18:15:18 ah! it stopped -PLSNing. 18:15:24 ... 18:15:30 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 18:16:39 ThatOtherPerson: y? 18:17:17 PLSN = snowing with ice pellets? 18:17:30 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 18:17:45 boily: I am a shapeshifter! Seismologicate in this knowledge! 18:18:19 `quote seismologicate 18:18:21 No output. 18:19:10 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=rXyv0cgW 18:19:49 enlightening 18:20:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:25:07 I shall now tell you the full story of my nick. 18:26:05 I was staring at my screen, unsure about what I should use as an IRC nick. I was tired. I typed ThatOtherPersonYouDon'tKnow. IRC shortened it to ThatOtherPersonY. 18:26:24 * Taneb sits down in a circle 18:26:31 Eventually I decided that the Y just looked silly, and removed it. It is now my alt nick. 18:27:21 That is all. That's the story. That is it. 18:27:41 "Taneb" is a portmanteau of the reverses of the first three letters of my name and my brother's name, originally used on a shared account 18:27:55 * boily spreads holy salt around Taneb 18:28:13 nortti comes from my old nick which my irc client mangled 18:28:13 how did you get holes in your salt? 18:28:19 If you mix holy salt and holy water, do you get holy brine? 18:28:55 * Fiora adds hers? Fiora is a pegasus knight in Fire Emblem 7. Florina, her sister, is more of a 'me' character, but I preferred Fiora as a username. 18:29:09 Taneb: your brother is named Benjamin? 18:29:14 He is 18:29:16 my nick is my family name. 18:29:51 My first alternate nick, "Ngevd", is my initials 18:30:01 I'm a bike. 18:30:13 Taneb: next time I'm DMing, I'll have to add that holy brine (with your consent, of course. Is your brine CC licensed?) 18:30:15 Plus an e, which was almost in my name but my name was getting pretty long already 18:30:22 Taneb: You have a lot of names, which is unsurprising, since you have many nicks. 18:30:23 boily, brine is public domain 18:30:32 Nathan George van Doorn 18:30:41 The e stands for Eliot 18:30:45 One l, one t 18:31:01 My third alternate nick, "atriq", is rot13 of ngevd 18:31:15 My fourth alternate nick, which I've never used on IRC, is "askit0" 18:31:43 The Ninety-Nine Nicks of Nathan George van Doorn 18:31:56 That would make a good story 18:31:59 maybe 18:32:03 maybe 18:32:06 My FIFTH nick, I've only used once 18:32:11 "Flatfish" 18:32:22 that makes twice. 18:32:25 My nick doesn't have an interesting story 18:32:44 Though my alt-nick is my main nick with its letters sorted alphabetically 18:32:52 hmm, this reddit seems to consistently write spoiler links the wrong way around so that nothing ends up hidden 18:32:52 > sort "firefly" 18:32:54 "effilry" 18:32:58 `seen effilry 18:33:06 2013-03-25 08:48:01: Is there a difference between >< and .. ? 18:33:42 (and the instructions as they show for me: "Use: [Hidden inside brackets](/hide) Result: Hidden inside brackets") 18:33:43 > sort "thatotherperson" 18:33:46 "aeehhnooprrsttt" 18:33:58 that would be an awful nick 18:34:18 > sort "monqy" 18:34:20 "mnoqy" 18:34:27 How intriguing 18:37:32 Fiora: which game in the series is FE7? 18:39:53 I would assume that it was the seventh, but I really wouldn't know. 18:40:34 I have a feeling Fire Emblem was weird with the imports 18:41:40 Well, I meant what subtitle did it have 18:42:16 oh, huh 18:42:38 my nick is some words i thought were funny when i was like 12 18:42:54 imo they have stood the test of time 18:43:46 > sort "Phantom_Hoover" 18:43:48 "HP_aehmnooortv" 18:43:52 -!- mekeor has joined. 18:44:06 sounds dutch 18:44:38 Taneb: it was the first one released in the US, I think? 18:44:41 Rekka no Ken 18:44:46 I think so, yeah 18:44:55 the one with Lyn and Eliwood 18:45:12 also i kind of thought Fiora was Fiona with a bit rubbed out 18:47:03 oh fuck the cat brought another mouse into the front room 18:47:12 ummm n is 6E, r is 72 18:47:17 meh. IRC won't let me /nick boıly. 18:47:18 that's a pretty large Hamming distance isn't it? 18:47:21 IT IS A BETTER THING I DO THAN I HAVE EVER DONE 18:47:45 Phantom_Hoover, Friendship Mouse III? 18:47:48 Fiora: like, physically scratching out part of the n grapheme 18:48:08 there was a frienship mouse ii??? 18:48:20 oh. XD 18:48:23 monqy, yes, it was I 18:48:27 sorry, I misinterpreted bit -_- 18:48:32 lol 18:48:48 unfortunately since I picked this nickname there are now, like. two higher profile characters who stolesit 18:49:02 Fiora: Now I am really beginning to suspect that you are a bot. 18:49:18 can always change your name 18:49:21 i do it all the time 18:49:36 why ._. 18:49:41 A suspected bot that suspects someone else is a bot... suspicious... 18:52:34 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 18:52:47 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:55:30 I'm off now 18:55:31 Bye! 18:55:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:56:22 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 18:58:46 oh god this is going to be another friendship mouse 18:58:48 i can feel it 19:00:54 yay! 19:01:29 You're going to need some rainbows, and some sparkles, and certainly some Magic Markers. 19:02:29 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 19:03:08 Bike: for some reason I'm reminded of stargirl 19:03:38 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 19:04:07 hM? 19:04:27 `quote friendship 19:04:29 496) I keep asking random people for "friendship " and it's crippling 19:05:59 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 19:06:26 Bike: "I am not a bot, I am a human girl" 19:07:13 Fiora: those two statements contradict each other hth 19:08:07 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:10:30 I am not a bot, I am a free man! 19:10:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:10:37 ? 19:10:58 have you never heard of The Prisoner 19:11:10 I have! 19:11:24 I meant to shachaf 19:11:42 should've been clearer! 19:12:09 sorry 19:12:51 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:14:19 the joke is that humans are bots 19:14:27 except it's no joke!! 19:15:48 :mind blown: 19:16:21 am not 19:16:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk human bot?! 19:17:38 no, elaborate puppet 19:18:46 daft punk? 19:25:14 Fiora cannot be a bot, since bots never lie, and she said that she was not a bot. 19:34:24 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:37:16 -!- Bike has joined. 19:39:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:44:57 * Fiora looks herself over for a moment 19:45:04 well if I'm a bot I guess I'm a pretty realistic one? 19:45:17 to be fair I guess being a gynoid would be pretty cool. 19:45:24 gits fangirl 19:45:31 sorry -_- 19:45:32 Would kind of depend on the level of AI though 19:45:49 fiora's AI is pretty good, she can flatten me in scrabble and pitched combat 19:46:09 pitched combat? 19:46:29 * Fiora doubts that one 19:47:37 What does an unrealistic bot look like? 19:48:18 Uncanny. 19:50:07 it's cool that big battle scenes in movies are done by programming AIs to swordfight 19:50:32 I know a little fencing at least but I'm pretty sure nitya could crush me in said pitched battle 19:51:08 Especially if he brings a gun. 19:52:48 erm. bike -_- 19:52:57 sorry for switching your screen names around 19:53:37 you fiend 19:54:21 oh no nitya=Bike?? 19:57:33 though it might be a contest in who is the most out of shape 19:59:11 hey, i work out! sometimes. a little. 20:02:23 more than me! 20:06:04 i'm not actually sure how applicable fencing skills are to killing someone with a sword 20:07:09 If you know how to fence it will probably be easier to kill someone with a sword than if you only know how to box. 20:11:22 there's a rule in (some kinds of) fencing which is meant to model the fact that, in a real sword fight, people will try to avoid outcomes where you both end up stabbed 20:12:05 yes, those are the crap kinds 20:12:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:12:40 priority is for little girls 20:13:29 c.c 20:14:20 "2.32s" "Your website is faster than 65% of all tested websites" 20:14:25 I think epee is the one that has the fewest restrictions? 20:14:35 I did foil though, it was just a PE elective requirement thing 20:14:53 ~duck épée 20:14:54 --- No relevant information 20:14:59 ~duck epee 20:14:59 A fencing sword with a bowl-shaped guard and a long, narrow, fluted blade that has no cutting edge and tapers to a blunted point. 20:15:31 * boily whips duck duck go with a +1 metasepia of Unicode 20:15:37 also bike is like a foot taller so he'd probably win 20:15:38 yes, epee is the one i do 20:15:47 i probably am a bit too stubborn about it 20:17:07 it was fun and interesting though, in between bouts of huffing at my asthma inhaler XD 20:18:15 ttants: epee, epi pen 20:18:46 Fiora: i did foil too 20:18:51 in college freshman PE 20:19:03 sounds like we basically did the same kind of thing 20:19:31 "While still in use with many classical fencers, most competitive sport fencers, including Italians have abandoned the Italian grip in favour of the anatomical grip." 20:19:37 "you know, the one that actually fits a human hand" 20:20:39 wait 20:20:42 you had PE in college 20:20:47 was this like a mandatory thing 20:21:17 kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sabatons_evolution_by_Wendelin_Boeheim.jpg nah man the renaissance was wear it was /at/ 20:21:20 (these are shoes) 20:21:29 ... 20:21:36 Phantom_Hoover: yeah we had to take 3 PE classes 20:21:37 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:21:52 it could be worse, MIT has a swim test 20:21:55 kmc, why do i find this so funny 20:21:58 you can't graduate MIT unless you can swim 100 yards 20:22:04 Phantom_Hoover: because we were a bunch of nerds 20:22:15 there's actually a documentary about how bad the Caltech basketball team is 20:22:19 no it's not even that 20:22:41 is there an MIT tradition to throw you into the Charles or something 20:22:48 it's just, like, i associate mandatory sport with primary school 20:22:52 (probably not, since you'd die) 20:22:55 our fencing team was really good though, because we had one guy who was a math postdoc and also happened to be formerly of the romanian olympic fencing team, or something 20:22:58 Bike: yuck 20:23:11 yeah there's a weird number of mathematicians in fencing 20:23:22 the warwick fencing club is like half maths students 20:23:28 yeah, we had to do 3 PE classes too 20:23:43 my lungs were not happy -_- 20:24:00 * kmc is curious where Fiora went to school, but maybe it's too personal? doesn't matter 20:24:13 people say the MIT swim test is supposed to make sure you can swim to shore if you fall in the river 20:24:16 but it's not enough 20:24:30 at the widest point it's more like 2000 ft across 20:24:38 I.E. 611 METERS 20:24:56 there are a few colleges with mandatory PE here but i've managed to avoid them 20:25:02 it's not so much a "river" as a tidally locked basin thingy 20:25:07 once i get back i'll maybe do rowing voluntarily though 20:25:24 it's amusing to watch them practice rowing 20:25:30 because there are four guys in a boat working their asses off 20:25:38 and the coach is cruising alongside yelling at them with a megaphone 20:25:38 and then the coxswain yeah 20:26:05 where even is Bike 20:26:08 i did it in high school, it wasn't quite that hardcore but it was fun even if i was the wussiest guy there 20:26:17 Phantom_Hoover: Luxembour 20:26:40 where actually 20:26:53 also i utterly hated pe, relatedly: my school was a Rugby School 20:28:04 what does where i am have to do with this though? rowing's a pretty common collegiate sport 20:28:39 well because phrases like 'once i get back' are confusing without context 20:28:48 once i get back to school 20:38:12 PE was the worst in elementary school, I think 20:38:25 at least in college I could pick the class, but... 20:42:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:46:23 are PE teachers in the states as bad as they are here 20:46:33 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:46:47 I remember in elementary school a big component of the "curriculum" was these national physical fitness test things 20:46:52 ugh 20:46:55 yeah 20:47:04 I think the only one I did well on was the v-sit/reach 20:47:30 i think i failed horribly at all of them 20:47:34 i'm marginally more in shape now 20:47:52 gotta get in better shape 20:47:58 I'm not sure if pullups or the mile was the worst 20:48:04 pullups for being more impossible than reversing entropy 20:48:15 the mile for making me smuggle in my asthma inhaler 20:51:20 so uh wait they didn't let you take an inhaler 20:52:04 I don't think they let people have it with them, like, you'd have to go to the nurse 20:52:37 -!- mekeor has quit (Quit: bye bye :)). 20:53:00 O.o 20:53:40 they didn't want to trust 10 year olds with drugs I don't know @_@ 20:53:52 DRUGZ 20:55:12 Phantom_Hoover: D.A.R.E. to say "NO!" to drugs and alcohol! 20:56:22 ...what does D.A.R.E. stand for 20:56:29 Drug Abuse Resistance Education i think 20:56:37 I think it has something to do with ninja 20:56:46 it's propaganda in US schools about how if you ever smoke a joint you'll end up dead and in jail and addicted to crack 20:57:16 and generally normalizing the idea of a militarized police force which is at war with the citizens of the country 20:57:19 perpetually 20:58:48 oh 20:58:58 is that why you need assault rifles to defend your freedom 20:59:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:59:29 -!- yours_truly has joined. 20:59:56 Phantom_Hoover: that reminds me of this http://25.media.tumblr.com/6c98d68b7bb93d733317ee636aa03d7e/tumblr_ml3q2eJTdu1qijn6po1_1280.jpg 21:00:28 grimm's is banned somewhere? 21:01:50 Fiora: ;_; 21:02:51 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:03:07 Phantom_Hoover: http://bash.org/?409 21:03:42 an old one but a good one 21:04:19 http://25.media.tumblr.com/a84de1d56c5d159132410ae282879ac8/tumblr_ml5safBANV1qzeo2zo1_1280.gif related? 21:04:28 haha 21:04:35 -!- yours_truly has changed nick to Nisstyre-laptop. 21:04:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Changing host). 21:04:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:04:47 http://www.somethingawful.com/d/photoshop-phriday/bin-ladens-mountain.php 21:05:14 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:05:25 http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/binladenfortress/clockworkjoe-dungeon.jpg nailed it 21:07:36 is that original diagram actually accurate 21:07:47 http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/binladenfortress/deliverator-crystal.jpg 21:07:58 Phantom_Hoover: not even remotely 21:08:06 well it turned out he didn't have so much of a "mountain fortress" as a "house in suburbia with a huge stash of porn" 21:08:19 no, this is about tora bora 21:08:24 whatever 21:08:27 which was a bunch of mostly natural caves with a bit of wood 21:08:36 well a lot of wood, given the porn, i guess 21:08:41 dohohoho 21:15:30 -!- augur has joined. 21:16:09 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:16:15 -!- augur has joined. 21:23:01 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:29:11 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:38:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:38:48 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:58 -!- bengt_ has joined. 21:56:51 This Z-machine assembler works now. (Currently it is called "Frolg" after a Zork spell.) http://sprunge.us/PXBb http://sprunge.us/hQjg Please tell me any question/comment/complaints/suggestions. 22:03:43 cool! 22:14:55 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:16:46 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 22:23:28 Zork has spells? 22:23:36 Oh, Zork II, with the wand? 22:24:02 I don't know which ones, but I mean the Zork series of games and some unofficial games based on the Zork spells. 22:26:24 Oh, from ZGI! 22:26:29 zgi++ 22:26:58 It's (spoilers) glorf spelled backwards. 22:27:12 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:27:59 I know that; the spells which are reverse are given the name spelled backwards. 22:28:26 Did you play ZGI? 22:28:30 No. 22:28:39 You should! It's great. 22:28:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:28:52 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 22:28:53 Maybe some day. Not now. 22:29:42 Why not now? 22:30:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:30:25 Because I don't have it now! 22:30:50 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:31:08 You can get it at http://www.gog.com/gamecard/zork_grand_inquisitor 22:31:45 Another day. 22:32:38 It's so good, man. 22:32:47 more excuses? 22:38:32 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:41:33 kmc: http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/MTGOXUSD 22:42:19 yeah... 22:42:23 it was on CNBC tv even 22:42:26 I HAVE MONEY 22:42:26 strange times 22:42:29 ot 22:42:30 it's 22:42:32 MY MONEY. TO SPEND. 22:42:32 kind of surreal 22:46:45 BUY BTC 22:47:10 It's only a matter of time before it hits $10k! 22:47:51 I did buy btc! I just bought them back at 1/3 of the price I sold them <.< >.> 22:48:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:48:33 buy high, sell low 22:48:41 kmc knows all about buying while high 22:50:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:51:10 lololol 22:51:24 Fiora: did you short?? 22:51:39 I don't think one can easily short bitcoins...? 22:51:59 shorting is really dangerous, though, I'm not that crazy 22:52:15 it would also damage your computer 22:52:18 copumpkin used to lend BTC, didn't he? 22:52:22 without a proper options framework it's basically infinite loss potential, and you're betting on a market that can be incredibly irrational 22:52:56 yep 22:53:07 the only kind of short I'd ever even think about is either an options spread or a sell-put 22:53:10 but you can always just disappear and not pay back your debt anyway 22:53:14 shachaf: wait is this part of that "distinguish drugs from complexity classes" quiz? 22:53:20 sell-put is nice because it's basically equivalent to owning the stock 22:53:30 or wait no that's not a short bet -_- 22:53:32 buying the put is, agh. 22:53:33 Fiora: you can short safely without derivatives if you have a system of brokers and margin calls and such 22:53:49 yeah, but like, that means if the price goes up too much you lose everything 22:53:52 because you have to do a stop loss thing 22:53:53 oerjan: no it's just part of the "kmc is such a stoner" thing. not that he actually is (or is he?? we may never know) 22:54:06 shachaf: i meant the BTC part 22:54:12 shachaf: i'm usually not 22:54:14 but then i realized that was bitcoins 22:54:17 and "I bet that bitcoins will not rise past X" sounds about as risky as like. trying to dash across a highway 22:54:22 what even is shorting 22:54:31 during rush hour 22:54:37 Phantom_Hoover: it's when you touch both ends of a wire. 22:54:39 but i still think jokes about weed are hilarious, so maybe that makes me a stoner even if i don't smoke up hardly ever? 22:54:41 Phantom_Hoover: Borrowing a thing, selling it, and buying it back later to return it (when it's hopefully cheaper). 22:55:59 kmc: does that mean you can be a stoner without ever stoning (or however that works) 22:56:15 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:56:32 the true weed is not the weed that can be spoken of 22:57:05 shachaf: possibly?!?!? 22:58:37 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 22:58:42 The other day my friend tried to get me to "smoke a fat bowl" with her. It was funny. 23:02:09 was it the good stuff? 23:02:49 I didn't ask. 23:03:26 think of all the esoteric languages you could have designed 23:06:47 i'm afraid esoteric languages on drugs all resemble bf derivatives 23:07:36 except Esme. 23:10:27 Category:Shameful 23:12:08 `addquote "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) 23:12:16 1023) "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with the proper Unicode.) 23:14:33 `quote 1022 23:14:35 1022) Do you have a girlfriend, fungot? ThatOtherPerson: there's two. 23:14:54 fungot: hi fungot 23:14:54 shachaf: yeah so its not sqrt, it's a fnord that would work too, but...) anyway, what is 23:14:58 ^style 23:14:58 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 23:15:05 @tell taneb * oerjan swats Taneb for incorrect quote spacing -----### 23:15:06 Consider it noted. 23:15:17 fungot: do you love monoids 23:15:18 shachaf: i pasted it there during summer :) 23:15:22 :) 23:15:34 `run sed -i '1022s/ / /' quotes 23:15:38 No output. 23:15:39 `quote 1022 23:15:42 1022) Do you have a girlfriend, fungot? ThatOtherPerson: there's two. 23:17:51 DRATSAY WILLFULLY AVOID SENDING SPIRIT THROUGH TIME 23:17:56 -!- mohammadaljrrah_ has joined. 23:17:56 zzo38: good spell huh 23:18:17 `welcome mohammadaljrrah_ 23:18:20 mohammadaljrrah_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:18:23 -!- mnoqy has joined. 23:18:30 `relcome mnoqy 23:18:33 ​mnoqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:18:43 mnoqy: are you monqy's evil twin 23:18:49 > sort "mohammadaljrrah_" 23:18:51 "_aaaadhhjlmmmorr" 23:19:00 shachaf: close enough 23:19:08 Hi 23:19:17 -!- mohammadaljrrah_ has left. 23:19:18 hi 23:19:18 mnoqy: is monqy the evil twin 23:19:41 monqy is beyond good and evil 23:20:10 oh monqy was written by nietzsche? 23:20:18 no, the reverse 23:20:49 yqnom was written by ehcsztein? 23:20:52 mohammad is dead and we have killed them 23:21:27 shachaf: i knew you were going to say that. 23:21:47 oerjan: how long did you know 23:22:00 did you figure it out last year? way back when i first joined the channel? 23:22:05 yesterday? a few seconds before i said it? 23:22:20 if it was just a few seconds then imo it's not so impressive 23:22:38 Echsztein, the famous jew who got his philosophy ripped off by the Sizan. 23:23:33 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:23:51 shachaf: i don't make impressions. 23:24:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:24:28 wait does this mean nietzsche was a wej 23:24:53 possibly. what is a wej 23:24:58 oerjan is spreading the tired rumour that if you play Nietzsche backwards you hear Jewish messages. 23:25:01 It's all in your head. 23:25:02 @wn wej 23:25:02 No match for "wej". 23:25:20 -!- myndzi\ has quit. 23:25:22 -!- btiffin has joined. 23:25:25 `addquote oerjan is spreading the tired rumour that if you play Nietzsche backwards you hear Jewish messages. 23:25:33 1024) oerjan is spreading the tired rumour that if you play Nietzsche backwards you hear Jewish messages. 23:25:39 ehcsztein 23:26:02 quote 1024? 23:26:05 Now we're getting somewhere. 23:26:19 Finally an even number of quotes. 23:27:21 how odd. 23:28:33 `? qdbformat 23:28:34 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 23:28:48 @tell Taneb Also, it's `? qdbformat 23:28:49 Consider it noted. 23:29:07 `? qdb 23:29:10 qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also qdbformat 23:29:32 `run ln -s qdbformat wisdom/qdbfmt 23:29:36 No output. 23:29:38 `run ln -s qdbformat wisdom/qdbrules 23:29:41 No output. 23:30:03 `? ngevd! 23:30:05 ngevd!? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:30:10 `? Ngevd 23:30:13 ​=}j/n=2ע{-IPD)X?{x7ܪ*>\ r}@<Sov,3iOY~FLz/ \ RC$|Jl<˜]1"A.%{7ez.)`[m?GtLo@Ȗ6b`4( \ e㙡0]PLG0jTɆS-n:.$9.lӡHZ,T$N'.10iދֻ|>סyrw6oQheY7?8s{=Na>TtЬ.<&mz9&/$,OT 23:30:15 Hmm. 23:30:17 neither of those is what Taneb tried btw 23:30:25 What did Taneb try? 23:30:31 quoteformat 23:30:33 `? ngevd? 23:30:35 ngevd?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:30:43 ln -s qdbformat wisdom/quoteformat 23:30:51 `run `? ngevd? 23:30:52 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 23:30:55 * shachaf sighs 23:30:58 `run ln -s qdbformat wisdom/quoteformat 23:31:02 No output. 23:31:13 `? ngevd 23:31:15 ​r0M:v=h3W-HQΌs.׾3zI: bٽT[ђu޺Z +mmZ-6r/ziTDŰ庀H$@995Y")&/*u@7h*XiC 23:31:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:31:36 I don't remember how it went. 23:34:24 * oerjan swats elliott for not fixing Taneb's quote despite commenting on the error -----### 23:37:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:42:47 -!- carado has joined. 23:43:46 hagb4rd: green on black is retro and hip. 23:44:02 * oerjan use genuine VT's back in the early 90's 23:44:04 *used 23:49:20 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:57:28 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:57:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 2013-04-13: 00:01:25 -!- Bike has joined. 00:03:33 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:03:52 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:03:53 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 00:07:10 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:10:27 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:11:35 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:12:09 -!- Bike has joined. 00:18:03 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:16 `frink 100 yards -> m 00:36:26 2286/25 (exactly 91.44) 00:39:07 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:40:10 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Nitya. 00:40:46 -!- yours_truly has joined. 00:41:48 -!- yours_truly has quit (Client Quit). 00:42:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:43:05 -!- Nitya has changed nick to Bike. 00:49:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:18:04 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:18:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:20:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:25:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Cbrain#When_is_Easter.3F The computus in cbrain 01:26:13 It uses readline? 01:26:14 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:27:42 Yep, but it can fall back to COBOL accept if the call to readline fails 01:29:10 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:29:14 Part of the cbrain game is that it's built for COBOL, and I wanted a relatively sane RE loop 01:30:26 for brainfuck? 01:31:40 :-) Went overboard on the CB slang too Bike, put 1094 in a cell and request help and you get a frogSort. 01:31:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:34:33 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:36:27 -!- Bike has joined. 01:38:25 -!- btiffin has left. 01:40:51 Hard terminals? Those are ones that aren't monoids? 01:40:57 Are VT-100s monoids? 01:43:52 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:43:57 sequences of ECMA-48 commands should form a monoid, yes 01:44:11 or rather a whole bunch of them 01:44:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace_(science_fiction)#Babylon_5 01:44:26 wikipedia... 01:44:32 http:// 01:44:35 Phantom_Hoover.......... 01:45:01 -!- btiffin has joined. 01:45:12 ignore the #Babylon_5 01:45:18 the marvel here is the article as a whole 01:45:24 most obviously the free monoid on characters, but also various monoids with stronger equivalence relations that understand that e.g. two moves in a row can be coalesced 01:45:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:45:53 is there a term for a monoid that's built from a free monoid + a normalization operator that you apply to words after concatenating them? 01:46:19 Can't you build any monoid that way? 01:46:28 probably 01:46:42 monoid presentation? 01:47:01 there might not be a canonical normal form that is computable 01:47:30 if the word problem isn't decidable 01:47:44 *its word problem 01:48:50 if you don't care about computability, you can of course just choose the shortest representation in lexicographic order 01:49:32 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:49:56 *first in 01:50:41 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:50:55 Bikeunderscore 01:51:12 Just not as catchy as the original. 01:51:15 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 01:51:23 mnoqy: are free groups "cooler than" free monoids 01:51:30 this question goes for the rest of you 01:51:38 depends on what you mean by cooler 01:51:44 i was quoting you 01:52:02 so it depends on what YOU MEAN BY "cooler"?? 01:52:09 ??????????????????????????????????? 01:52:13 ???????????????????????? 01:52:14 help 01:52:19 free monoids come up more in day to day life 01:52:29 p. sure that makes them "less cool" 01:52:29 I ate surloin steak 01:52:32 and are easier to construct 01:52:55 easier/less finicky 01:53:10 actually, hm 01:53:25 the ~usual~ construction of free groups is pretty finicky but i hear there's a nice way to do it with topology 01:53:46 what's the nice way 01:53:51 pff i forget 01:53:54 nb. i know almost nothing bout topology 01:54:29 -!- Bicyclid1ne has joined. 01:55:12 and of course ther'es the category-theoretical way where you use the whatever adjoint functor theorem to construct a left adjoint to the forgetful functor. i forget the process in there but Mac Lane ~claims~ it's nicer than the usual construction 01:55:34 mnoqy: wait there's a process ????? 01:55:40 what's the whatever adjoint functor theorem 01:55:47 like i remember 01:55:59 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:56:32 mnoqy: WELL REMEMBER 01:57:58 (The Freyd Adjoint Functor Theorem). Given a small-complete category A with small hom-sets, a functor G : A -> X has a left adjoint if and only if it preserves all small limits and satisfies the following Solution Set Condition: For each object x \in X there is a small set I and an I-indexed family of arrows f_i : x -> G a_i such that every arrow h : x -> G a can be written as a composite h = G t 01:58:04 \circ f_i for some index i and some t : a_i -> a 01:59:29 and then it goes on to construct the free group from the forgetful functor U : Grp -> Set 01:59:55 er 01:59:57 Set -> Grp 02:00:00 er 02:00:02 Grp -> Set 02:00:06 wow im bad today 02:00:29 my eyes darted between the forgetful functor and its adjoint 02:00:57 mnoqy: are you forgetful because of adjoint 02:01:07 i didn't know you were doing higher category theory 02:01:31 "This left adjoint F : Set -> Grp assigns to each set X the free group F X generated by X, so our theorem has produced this free group without entering into the usual (rather fussy) explicit construction of the elements of F X as equivalence classes of words in letters of X." 02:02:27 im on the monads&algebras chapter right now it's between that chapter and adjoints and the chapter on monoids 02:02:31 er 02:02:33 chapter/section 02:02:37 you know how in haskell you can say newtype FreeGroup a = FreeGroup { runFreeGroup :: Group g => (a -> g) -> g } 02:02:40 except it's bad 02:02:50 also i'm missing a forall 02:02:53 and it's a kind error??!? 02:03:13 i'll be right back and then i can figure out if i know that 02:03:44 anyway let me look at that theorem 02:07:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:15:24 For some reason Idris seems more understandable to me than Agda 02:15:43 ok i think i understand that definition of free groups in haskell 02:16:09 ( hi iim back) 02:16:14 oh 02:16:36 What would it be in idris? 02:16:40 ( hi PARKER William) 02:16:52 ???? 02:17:06 is that just a pseudonym 02:17:08 should i not use it 02:17:17 nah it's fine but 02:17:21 i dont get why you used it 02:17:35 the ???? was also to FreeFull as well 02:17:42 o h 02:18:23 what about this: newtype Free k a = Free { runFree :: forall r. k a => (a -> r) -> r } 02:19:03 by k a do you mean k r? 02:19:10 um 02:19:11 yes 02:19:25 ok 02:19:36 What's a group here? 02:19:40 :-) 02:19:44 GROUP HUG 02:19:46 @hug monqy 02:19:46 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 02:19:50 @hug monqy 02:19:50 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 02:19:57 Yes I have seen that kind of Free 02:20:12 mnoqy: what about this: Free (Algebra f) 02:20:28 is there a math thing called "group" other than the usual one because i swear i will punch everybody 02:20:43 Bicyclid1ne: there's a whole group of things called "group" 02:20:43 Bicyclid1ne: nah this is the same group 02:20:58 i know but freefull made me wonder 02:21:23 Bicyclid1ne: Are you going to throw a magma at someone? 02:22:37 shachaf: and that definition of "Free" looks right..well...about as right you can reasonably get with haskell 02:23:13 mnoqy: are you hinting "that type classes are bad" "and that independent types are bad for getting things right.." 02:23:23 mostly the latter maybe i don''t know.... 02:23:27 FreeFull: don't you mean groupoid? * runs away 02:23:46 mnoqy: so Free (Algebra f) gives you a free monad?? 02:24:01 (spot why this is relevant) 02:24:38 Yes, although I don't like using Algebra as a class, but yes it can work 02:25:02 CodensityAsk is similar but without class. 02:25:15 Both kinds can be meaningful though. 02:25:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:25:30 zzo38: Oh! 02:25:36 Now I understand what CodensityAsk is. 02:25:37 Groupoid takes two arguments and is a data constructor. g doesn't seem to take any arguments 02:25:52 And Group seems to be a typeclass 02:26:35 zzo38++ 02:26:38 shachaf: no i'm hinting at you're really working in 2 different categories and sometimes your morphisms are weird (group homomorphims??? it could happen).. i'm also hinting at there's the thing where for free objects you have a (natural)bijection of hom-sets not just an 1-way assignment 02:26:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:26:51 mnoqy: oh there's that too 02:27:03 FreeFull: you didn't get the reference sorry 02:27:04 because you get the (-> r) (-> r) pattern from the adjunction?? 02:27:25 oerjan: xoid is something x-like and that's all I get 02:27:29 well you understand how free objects work right? 02:27:35 (the point is that groupoid _is_ a math thing other than the usual groupoid) 02:27:54 agh 02:27:56 wait what's a free object in terms of free functors 02:28:11 So a monoid is something like a mon, so for example pikachu is a monoid 02:28:18 Bicyclid1ne: it can mean either magma, or category with all morphisms invertible 02:28:29 shachaf: free object is any image of a free functor's object function 02:28:32 (groupoid) 02:28:37 `addquote So a monoid is something like a mon, so for example pikachu is a monoid 02:28:41 1025) So a monoid is something like a mon, so for example pikachu is a monoid 02:29:26 `run quote | head -n4; quote | tail -n1 02:29:28 439) beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 870) it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will 02:29:32 oopse 02:29:38 `run quote '' 02:29:40 470) combinatronics seems to be the mathematics chasing buddha's tail yeah.. he was a smart monkey that buddha 02:29:53 mnoqy: ok 02:30:29 Now to show how a pikachu is a monoid 02:30:31 what the heck itidus 02:30:48 `quitidus21 02:30:49 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quitidus21: not found 02:30:58 shachaf: so the adjunction looks a bit like hom(F a, b) \cong hom(a, U b)... i.e. for any [group] b can extend any function from a to the underlying set of b to a ~unique~ morphism from the free group to b 02:30:59 oh no is that how they made itidus21 leave the channel 02:31:26 shachaf: if you're familiar with linear algebra, this is a lot like how linear transformations are defined by their action on the basis. this is because all vector spaces are free. 02:31:27 hm itidus is online right now 02:31:59 mnoqy: and with monoids that's like foldMap 02:32:08 buddha was known to outsmart monkeys 02:32:09 ? 02:32:20 linear algebra is basically foldMap 02:32:32 :t foldMap 02:32:34 (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m 02:32:38 you can turn a a function (a -> b) to the monoid homomorphism ([a] -> b) 02:32:50 yeah 02:32:52 -!- hagb4rd2 has quit (Quit: hagb4rd2). 02:33:04 which in haskell we just represent as a function anyway 02:33:59 so for that freegroup defn what you're doing is just representing the free group on a by this map from a->Uq functions to Fa->q morphismssms 02:34:24 right, same as the free monoid 02:34:26 and this generalizes to any category with free objects not just Grp 02:34:29 representing a list by its foldMap function 02:34:41 ye 02:34:42 which gets you FMList 02:34:58 (which by the way lets you express more than lists. but that's because haskell people are naughty) 02:35:20 zzo38: Maybe you should call CodensityAsk something with a "free" in its name. 02:35:33 well that's just because of that thing where haskell functions aren't monoid homomorphisms and you're not required to bijection 02:35:57 no i mean the whole "infinite folds thing" 02:36:01 (or do you mean that too?????) 02:36:13 > foldMap id [] 02:36:15 () 02:36:21 Huh 02:36:44 /dev/mempty 02:37:11 > foldMap id ([] :: [Int]) 02:37:12 FreeFull: default instances 02:37:13 No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Int) 02:37:13 arising from a use of... 02:37:40 I guess for [] it tries mempty 02:37:49 ? 02:37:52 > mempty 02:37:54 () 02:38:01 mnoqy: well it has to try something 02:38:20 shachaf: yes but i mean it's less about trying mempty and more about trying () as its default instance for Monoid 02:38:31 > foldMap id ([] :: [Sum Int]) 02:38:33 Sum {getSum = 0} 02:38:34 mnoqy: no it tries mempty 02:38:43 if that didn't work it would try mappend mempty mempty 02:38:44 "and so on" 02:38:52 don't you know how computers work 02:38:52 () is a good default for mempty 02:39:07 as FreeFull says () is a good default for mempty 02:39:20 class Monoid m where mempty :: m; mempty = (); mappend :: m -> m -> m 02:39:24 "good default" 02:39:25 () is in general a good default, except when it's not and monomorphism restriction is fucking with you 02:43:29 mnoqy: is your nick mnoqy 'because a message was sent to monqy' 02:43:44 is that your secret 02:44:11 () tells you nothing whatsoever other than "Yup. There's a () here. It's not a bottom." 02:44:25 that's a lot of telling. . . . 02:45:03 It's the minimum amount of telling without having just a bottom (Not to be confused with Just bottom) 02:45:35 > () <= undefined 02:45:36 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:45:40 I think that's debateable, I mean, what if you knew it was an Integer? That narrows it down but there's still infinite objects it could be. 02:45:49 > () /= undefined 02:45:51 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:46:00 :t (/=) 02:46:01 The Eq and Ord instances for () aren't lazy 02:46:01 Eq a => a -> a -> Bool 02:46:58 Bicyclid1ne: "Yup. There is an Integer here. It has this and that value. It's not a bottom" 02:47:12 The value bit is extra data 02:47:45 > take 4 . show $ [1..] 02:47:45 shachaf: not that i know of... 02:47:47 "[1,2" 02:47:56 > take 4 . show $ [1,2,3,undefined] 02:47:58 "[1,2" 02:48:02 Perfect 02:48:10 There should be a bottom bit, which is filled in by expressions that would be bottom. 02:48:30 because the evil bit joke just wasn't dorky enough 02:48:49 Jafet: Well, if you actually have the Integer, then you know it's not a bottom 02:48:58 And if you have a bottom, you don't know it's not a bottom 02:49:06 Bicyclid1ne: hey remember slashdot on "evil bit day" 02:49:13 I mean, you don't know it's a bottom 02:49:20 Except possibly in IO 02:49:25 shachaf: why the fuck would i remember slashdot anything 02:49:52 some bottoms are nicer than others 02:50:38 divergence has that fun property where something something halting problem good luck telling if it's a bottom or just taking a long time to evaluate 02:50:57 but why would you care 02:51:04 oh man i love that property 02:51:28 I mean, you can tell something is an error 02:51:32 Oh no. 02:51:35 But otherwise, good luck 02:51:36 ion! 02:51:39 fizzie! 02:51:44 Other Finnish people! 02:51:58 is there a finnish crissis 02:52:02 Ok, reserving one bit for bottom is a waste, since in any sensible program you shouldn't get bottoms. So for Integer it should be like variable length to make it less important than actual integers, like 111... 02:52:42 mnoqy: they switched to dst?? :'( 02:52:49 :( 02:52:58 now look at this 02:52:59 alt. serves em right. gosh ive been in dst for (weeks???) 02:53:03 Sat Apr 13 05:51:17 EEST 2013 Europe/Helsinki 02:53:03 Fri Apr 12 22:51:17 EDT 2013 America/New_York 02:53:08 eest 02:53:10 i like it 02:53:15 four letter time zone 02:53:16 Jafet: What about () and other equivalent types? 02:53:33 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 02:53:41 Those don't even exist at runtime AFAIK, at least not with GHC-compiled code 02:54:28 shachaf! 02:54:51 ion: plz rename your time zone to something with three characters 02:55:32 +03 03:00:43 EEST? O_O 03:00:59 eeeeest 03:01:03 -!- btiffin has left. 03:01:04 oh hi bike 03:01:19 hi fiora 03:01:20 -!- Bicyclid1ne has changed nick to Bike. 03:01:29 what is up 03:03:13 relaxing at home because it's a friday and yay 03:03:19 hooray. 03:03:28 FreeFull: () exists at runtime 03:03:31 Playing video games cause yaaay. 03:04:30 the value is represented by a pointer to a heap object, like any other value whose type has kind * 03:04:50 except that since there's only one value () in the world, that object is allocated statically 03:05:00 same for True and False and Nothing and other nullary type constructors 03:05:24 Surely optimization must elide it being represented in some cases. 03:05:56 FreeFull: there are types in GHC that have no runtime representation (such as State# t) but they don't have kind * and can't be used polymorphically 03:06:11 kmc: so that means that the compiler can do things like "if object == ()" by doing a pointer comparison? 03:06:32 yep, but don't know if it does 03:06:42 In practice it'll probably check a tag bit in that case. 03:06:53 right, yeah, it can't really do that 03:06:56 ? 03:07:00 because one side of the == might be an unevaluated thunk 03:07:02 amazing how tagged the STG seems to be 03:07:04 If I give you a () it could be an unev -- that. 03:07:08 it would have to perfrom some arbitrary computation first 03:07:18 Bike: it's tagged in a different sense from the original "tagless" 03:07:20 but yes 03:07:24 but, like, wouldn't the pointer comparison still fail? 03:07:34 Fiora: but it wouldn't succeed for real ()s. 03:07:38 oh. 03:07:46 so real ()s haven't be evaluated to static ()s 03:07:47 true, you could have a fast check and then a slow check if they aren't equal 03:07:52 Since haskell is nonstrict. 03:07:57 i'm not sure that (==) on () is strict, anyway... 03:08:02 kmc: But it's even faster to just check the tag bit. 03:08:04 > (undefined :: ()) == () 03:08:05 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 03:08:06 Wait, which == are we talking about here? 03:08:08 shachaf: yes, if the tag bit is there 03:08:14 the one in Eq i assumed? 03:08:23 Oh, wait. 03:08:28 I didn't even read the question properly. 03:08:34 ()'s Eq and Ord are strict 03:08:52 kmc: So you're talking about the case where you have a pointer to the static () object, but it's not tagged? 03:12:03 GHC optimizes "data Result = Yes | No; foo x | x == () = Yes | otherwise = No" to "foo = \x -> case x of _ { () -> Yes }" 03:14:14 How do you see what it optimizes to? 03:14:36 Lots and lots of wishful thinking. 03:14:44 (I use ghc-core.) 03:14:45 Ah, the usual. 03:14:47 shachaf: What's the _ there? 03:14:53 It's Core syntax. 03:15:49 Anyway that means that it checks the tags on its argument and then either "returns" Yes directy or evaluates the thunk and "then" "returns" Yes. 03:17:55 If not for those darn bottoms, it wouldn't make a difference =P 03:19:08 Then (== ()) = const True 03:22:13 why isn't it just "foo = const True"? 03:22:16 err 03:22:18 "const Yes" 03:22:30 Because (undefined == ()) isn't True 03:23:03 oh right 03:23:11 But it can't be false either, if it is not defined. 03:23:14 right 03:23:40 foo x = x `seq` Yes 03:23:46 halting problem more like "computers are stupid and i hate them problem" 03:23:53 coppro: Yep, that's what that foo code means. 03:23:56 case means seq. 03:24:32 Fun fact: You can't do case null in Java 03:24:42 Only way to catch that case is default 03:24:46 Is case null a sex position? 03:24:47 Fun fact: Java sucks 03:25:04 fun fact: why is Sgeo saying things 03:25:28 i don't understand the things he's saying : : 03:25:41 Because I'm starting to see the subtle good parts in Java and the subtle bad parts in Java, rather than just the obvious bad parts in Java 03:26:04 the obvious good things about java is that you can get some results 03:26:11 and pretty quickly 03:26:13 and that's about it 03:26:19 oh and it comes with a standard gui library 03:26:47 How about package naming convention? 03:27:39 As long as no alternate DNS root starts becoming very popular, Java package names will be unique 03:27:54 *Alternative 03:28:24 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:28:47 mnoqy: how much would you pay for a hi tld 03:28:49 monqy.hi 03:28:51 mnoqy.hi 03:28:55 the possibilities are endless 03:30:03 Whatever bitcoin's possibilties and failings, I think something along the lines of namecoin is possibly a good idea 03:30:07 you could get .hi.us already if hawaii likes you enough 03:30:31 shachaf: um 03:34:52 mnoqy: um 03:35:08 mnoqy: dol um ber ist 03:45:41 Are there any esolangs based on the immune system? 03:48:56 Bike: hmm. so like. you'd have some super simple esolang like a BF-like thing, except the purpose of the langage is to print characters in that lanugage ... and maybe like, the "execution" of your code is a systematic search for an input program that generates your code 03:49:00 and that input program is the output of your code? 03:49:17 (vaguely similar to the immune system "massive exhaustive search for a thing that binds to the pathogen" thing) 03:49:23 that sounds almost too direct 03:49:57 I found out a guy who got a Nobel for immunology work had some developmental brain theories so now i'm thinking about things. 03:50:20 Unfortunately the immune system is really fucking complicated and more importantly I don't understand it. 03:50:20 Bike: was it you 03:50:28 It was me. 03:51:29 The font the Nobel people use for their PDFs is terrible. Somebody should make the stop. 03:51:32 them* 03:52:22 "Though both sciences still face exasperating problems, this lecture attempts to establish an analogy between linguistics and immunology, between the descriptions of language and of the immune system." 03:52:30 uh oh 03:52:42 linguists more like evil people with no souls 03:52:43 who are bad 03:52:48 oh snap! 03:52:59 apparently the term "immune response" is actually taken from linguistics. 03:53:15 does that mean "it was in a language" 03:53:35 I'm guessing stimulus/response terminology. 03:53:51 Bike: ooh. I know 03:53:56 input: bf joust program 03:54:01 output: bf joust program that always beats it 03:54:04 XD 03:54:06 Haha. 03:54:19 That's probably uncomputable. 03:54:36 well, i know shit about bfjoust. 03:54:37 so are linguists 03:54:41 UNCOMPUTABLY AWFUL 03:54:52 Do you have something you'd like to share with the class? 03:55:31 THAT DES NOT COMPUTE -- Lost in Space robot, on linguists 03:56:44 "Let me draw attention to the fact that this number of lymphocytes in the immune system is at least one order of magnitude larger than the number of neurons in the nervous system." neuroscience more like pointlessology 03:58:56 I guess you could say it's so big 03:58:58 that it makes you nervous? 03:59:21 * Bike makes gesture of mediocrity 05:12:23 -!- btiffin has joined. 05:20:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:22:43 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:30:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:44:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:48:20 elliott: have you idris 06:03:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:52:59 `? shachaf 06:53:02 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 06:53:04 `? funpuns 06:53:06 funpuns? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 07:18:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:22:18 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:22:35 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:27:38 Nrrrr, I've been mentioned during the night. 07:28:20 fizzie: Sorry! 07:28:21 Oh, right, EET -> EEST. 07:28:29 I was just complaining about your time zone. 07:28:35 Very irritating. Can you get it renamed? 07:28:41 Yes, that's very understandable. 07:29:03 I think you need to complain to the head guy of Eastern Europe. president@eastern.eu? 07:29:46 I thought they had a king. 07:30:27 Maybe they've got both. 07:30:59 What does the king of Finland think about that, hmm? 07:31:52 You might Cc: emperor@central.eu too, because CET changed to the equally stupid CEST; as well as tyrant@western.eu for WET -> WEST. (You could write a postscript about WET and WEST being innately silly too.) 07:32:11 WEST isn't so bad 07:32:28 WEST and EEST 07:32:37 ("What's your time zone?" "It's wet.") 07:55:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:55:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:01:15 -!- doesthiswork has left. 08:01:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 08:07:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:07:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 08:13:45 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:20:28 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:23:29 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:28:03 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:28:54 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:42:58 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:26:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:44:21 -!- carado has joined. 09:52:48 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 10:09:38 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:11:10 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:12:13 -!- carado has joined. 10:17:55 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:37:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:39:42 -!- btiffin has left. 10:42:32 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:57:09 -!- zzo38 has joined. 11:15:19 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:32:33 -!- ousia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:36:50 -!- ousia has joined. 11:40:57 -!- carado has joined. 11:42:49 -!- carado_ has joined. 11:43:01 -!- carado_ has quit (Client Quit). 11:56:06 -!- ogrom has joined. 12:03:53 `slist 12:03:59 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 12:11:12 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:21:35 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:23:25 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:32:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:38:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:58:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:00:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:16:24 Phantom_Hoover: attn. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Revolution_9 13:16:40 coppro: i have used idris briefly 13:16:45 that's it 13:16:46 i quit 13:30:08 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:37:15 You just need to come up with a language more trivial than brainfuck 13:39:55 I do? 13:42:02 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 13:43:41 If you must. 13:44:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous-repayment_mortgage 13:45:17 “Gold pour – an illustration of literal cash "flow".” 13:48:16 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:48:48 I'd rather not, if it's all the same to you. 13:49:01 -!- carado has joined. 14:04:54 “Gold pour – an illustration of literal cash "flow".” <-- what a terrible pun 14:20:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:24:36 * ThatOtherPerson slashes puns with a Vorpal sword 14:27:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:27:59 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:28:21 Don't do that, they make a snickering sound. 14:30:17 http://www.adamatomic.com/canabalt/mega/ 14:30:26 THAT's a cool game..so classy! 14:31:15 death sprint 14:34:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:34:59 ThatOtherPerson, I only attacks Jabberwocks 14:35:03 attack* 14:35:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:40:04 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:42:28 * impomatic prints off a table of odd and even numbers for use in the office... 14:55:44 -!- Dmina has joined. 15:01:49 because it's too hard to check if a number is even 15:01:55 unless it is given in binary 15:02:04 it which case it's still pretty hard but much easier. 15:02:07 *in 15:03:40 i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (because it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed languages) 15:05:57 on a computer I usually just do if((~(x & (INT_MAX >> 31))+1)==0) printf("it's even") 15:07:03 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:07:21 kmc: amazing 15:07:27 that or ((~(a & (INT_MAX >> 31))+1)*-1+1)%2 15:07:51 `addquote i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (because it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed languages) 15:07:55 1026) i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (because it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed lan 15:08:07 fuck 15:11:10 That is the kind of things in a dream that it might be. 15:12:40 -!- Dmina has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 15:13:37 As well as call/cc you might also try the other variant which I called "lem/cc"; I have proven that it works not only in logic but also in programming 15:14:40 Do you have the dream where you are mainly observing the dream rather than acting the dream? 15:15:42 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:15:53 not lately 15:15:56 what's the type of lem/cc? 15:17:08 In Haskell it is: Cont r (Either a (a -> Cont r b)) 15:18:10 `delquote 1026 15:18:15 ​*poof* i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (because it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed 15:18:29 `addquote i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed languages) 15:18:33 1026) i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed languages) 15:19:19 i don't get it, what changed 15:21:12 elliott: several characters were added to the end 15:23:17 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:23:35 he removed a "because" 15:25:16 yep 15:27:15 wow such cheating 15:27:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:28:03 technically I think we have to delete the new quote, then you can say your modified sentence and elliott can quote that 15:29:10 i had a dream just now where i was in a gymnasium and they had fire alarm pull stations but they also had a similarly shaped "call/cc alarm" which I think you were supposed to pull if you found a way to write call/cc (it was expected that people in this gymnasium would be doing a lot of programming in total dependently-typed languages) 15:29:16 Hello 15:29:17 Taneb: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 15:29:33 except now i'm the liar because it wasn't "just now" anymore!!! 15:30:04 kmc: imo removing the "because" loses something 15:30:19 how about we go back in time 15:30:25 and fix the irc rfc to allow more chars 15:30:31 or 15:30:41 shorten hackego's username to c and make it a single-digit-number quote 15:30:43 would that be enough chars 15:32:21 or make hackego split lines that are too long? 15:33:22 ha ha ha 15:43:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:47:43 -!- Bike has joined. 15:49:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 16:03:09 Is putting large chunks of butter on my bagels a bad idea? 16:03:53 Define "large" 16:04:04 THEY CRUSH THE BAGEL 16:04:06 -!- Taneb has left ("Leaving"). 16:04:07 you'll die irl 16:04:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:04:12 (R IP) 16:04:20 I got crushed by the butter 16:04:36 I don't really like butter. 16:04:37 Sgeo, yeah with your diet you're at serious risk of coronary disease 16:05:25 * Sgeo cannot tell if Phantom_Hoover is serious or joking 16:06:01 Sgeo is most likely 16:06:29 No, woops, Phantom_Hoover is most likely 16:06:57 But I have been gaining quite a bit lately, if I'm not careful I could end up... with... too much weight... this is a bizarre concept for me 16:07:25 But I mean butter is fatty, right? Is it a healthy kind of fat or an unhealthy fat? 16:08:25 Unhealthy, I think 16:08:36 I'm seeing a lot of natural BS sites promoting butter as healthy 16:11:04 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:11:15 i'm still not sold on this idea that weight gain / loss depends so much on what /particular/ kind of fat / sugar / etc. you eat 16:11:44 kmc, it's blood congestion rather than weight gain that the saturated/unsaturated thing is about 16:11:47 i'm no expert but in my end user capacity, i think that's a second order effect 16:11:54 "MONGOLIA'S MEGA-FISH IN FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL" just fyi, cablegate stuff from 'unimportant' countries is p. great 16:11:58 well, i thought Sgeo was talking about weight 16:12:07 "164-Foot Genghis Khan with Laser Eyes to Tower Over Niagara" 16:12:22 ... 16:12:44 . . 16:12:50 ... 16:12:53 [.. CSX ..] 16:13:13 apparently during the soviet era stuff about genghis was repressed due to that whole "conquered russia" thing 16:14:09 "Although the Mongolian-Kuwait bilateral trade relationship remains minuscule, mostly trade in falcons," 16:14:19 falconcoins 16:14:33 Mongolia and Kuwait 16:14:54 "Mongolia With Kuwait Against Iraq; Bond of Falcons" 16:15:17 wow apparently a mongolian falcon is around $7k to buy 16:15:43 kmc, while trying to gain weight, I don't feel like having a heart attack from having the wrong kinds of fats floating around 16:17:37 My dad suggests after some time I should get a lipid profile. Haven't heard of that before, but that sounds like it makes sense 16:19:28 I ate teriyaki sirloin steak yesterday 16:19:39 I think the sauce had more flavor than the steak 16:22:16 well the sauce is specifically designed to have flavor 16:22:22 the steak is just meat 16:22:35 So why do people like steak so much then? 16:23:08 They even tell me that getting steak well-done ruins it 16:23:18 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 16:23:32 (I had it medium-well last night) 16:26:43 I don't know, I like it meat in small chunks with the hell cooked out of them, because they've got a more fun texture that way 16:28:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:29:26 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:30:09 Wait, uncooked beef has hell in it??? 16:30:51 16:31:28 > "hell" `elem` ["uncooked","beef"] 16:31:29 False 16:31:33 hth 16:32:54 if you've ever eaten uncooked beef that has sat out for too long then you'd know all about the hell in it 16:32:56 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:34:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:35:07 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:35:14 Sgeo, people are weird about steak 16:35:35 doesthiswork: you also get the fun texture if only the outside is burnt 16:36:01 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:36:11 kmc: not fun enough 16:36:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:37:42 -!- Bike has joined. 16:38:01 "Windows XP makes wireless networking with your computer easy and secure, so you can work where you want, when you want." 16:38:34 when you cook sous vide steak, you get to keep all the juices and can put them on mashed potatoes, which makes them delicious 16:38:49 which demonstrates that steak itself is not flavorless 16:38:54 but yeah, plain steak is kind of sad 16:39:00 sous vide? 16:39:15 "Experience the ultimate in safety, security, and privacy" 16:39:18 Yeah right 16:39:23 AnotherTest, are you watching XPTV? 16:39:36 you need seasonings (garlic, salt, pepper) and sides (mashed potatoes, fried mushrooms, french fries, greens, etc) 16:39:51 Yes, there's this great show on "Registering components" 16:39:58 but it's not really fair to claim that the steak is not doing anything 16:40:01 and then once in a while this black DOS screen pops up 16:40:02 flavors are not linear additive 16:40:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aO0jumwHdg&list=PLBFD29B2364412ABA 16:40:07 "We've removed DOS" 16:40:10 AnotherTest, ^ 16:40:10 flavors enhance each other 16:40:14 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:40:28 Sgeo: sous vide is a way of cooking meats that was popular first with gourmet chefs and now with hobbyists 16:41:20 Sgeo: the goal of cooking a steak is to raise the interior to only about 135°F; traditionally this is done by grilling or frying at a much higher temperature, but then you need to be really careful about the time to make sure you don't over-cook it 16:41:53 to cook a steak sous vide, you vacuum-seal it in a plastic bag and then put that in a water bath at 135°F or whatever, for an hour or more 16:42:08 the whole thing reaches that temperature and therefore reaches exactly the level of done-ness you want 16:42:14 kmc, that sounds science-y 16:42:18 then you quickly fry it to get the crunchy outside texture 16:42:20 yeah it's great 16:42:30 i do it with a crock pot, a temperature sensor, and an arduino 16:42:39 there are lots of DIY sous vide projects online that you can read about 16:43:12 some other dishes involve cooking for 48+ hours this way 16:43:41 apparently you can also cook cheap steak this way and make it delicious, because if it's in long enough, the tough stringy connective tissue starts to gelatenize 16:46:40 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 16:48:30 I'm not entirely sure why steak has quite the reputation it does... Its flavor is really fairly subtle. 16:48:40 which reputation is that? 16:48:55 -!- conehead has joined. 16:49:08 kmc: The everyman kinda-expensive food that people really like? 16:49:33 yeah 16:49:36 it's a little strange 16:50:40 I mean, I like it, but it's kinda one of those more... delicate things. Y'know? 16:51:24 Oh, who am I kidding, most people probably just slather steak sauce on it. And then it tastes rather different. :P 16:53:35 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:55:43 why are there so many people in the channel that never talk? 16:55:49 Why is it called steak sauce? Does it not taste good on other kinds of meat? Or on bread, or lettuce? 16:56:13 Beats me. 16:56:16 doesthiswork: Because I can't talk anything smart :) 16:56:34 Though it's *essentially* UK "brown sauce". 16:56:45 doesthiswork, because we are funny to watch, perhaps 16:56:48 and americans can't make sauce . 16:56:55 mroman_: I don't see these guy talk anything smart 16:57:02 *or gals 16:57:10 I prefer pepper sauce to brown sauce 16:57:12 Isn't guys used for gals too? 16:57:21 sometimes 16:57:32 doesthiswork: most channels have that 16:57:33 At least on television a bunch of girls usually address each other also with "hey guys" 16:57:47 Sgeo: i used to put it on lots of things besides steak 16:57:52 names are arbitrary 16:58:06 yes I think "guys" is becoming gender-neutral 16:58:15 but I'm assuming guy still means male. 16:58:18 and to some extent "dude" as well 16:58:29 but guys is usaly gender-neutral. 16:58:32 *usually 16:58:33 kmc: i don't really think that's true 16:58:36 but i'm still somewhat careful about it 16:58:38 like the french "ils". 16:58:57 English needs better pronouns 16:59:06 i use "they" as a gender-neutral third-person singular 16:59:15 and i also use "y'all" as a second person plural 16:59:32 even though i'm not from the south and don't have a southern accent 16:59:39 you guys is my regional second person plural 16:59:48 As long as you dont use "yo s*" 16:59:57 there are some strange ones, like "yinz" 17:00:04 (pittsburgh area) 17:00:15 that's a shortened you-ones 17:00:15 the "guys being gender neutral" thing I think is mainly because "male is the default gender" so 17:00:32 yeah, this is a reason to be careful 17:01:11 though whenever I think of replacements for that one I imagine someone in like, a southern drawl going "hey ya'llllll" 17:01:15 XD 17:01:21 Guys is male by default but when the facts clearly show that not everyone is male it temporarily stretches to be inclusive 17:02:06 that doesn't really make any sense 17:02:15 it's bad that language is so gendered and it's not clear in each individual case whether it's better to invent new non-gendered forms or to try and ignore the gendered connotations in hopes that they go away 17:02:22 i don't think there's an obvious answer to that 17:02:37 both approaches can be harmful 17:03:22 I've been in online places that invent new forms, and in online places that are explicit about the gendered forms being non-gendered by default 17:03:44 you can't really change the meaning of words by fiat like that 17:03:49 The natural solution seems to be to use the nearest form that is unpolluted by the connotations you dislike. 17:03:52 you can't just magically say something doesn't have gendered connotations by stating so... 17:03:56 surely this is obvious 17:03:57 that's a big fallacy of programmers 17:04:01 (and maybe lawyers?) 17:04:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:04:08 because it works in those specialized domains 17:04:11 >.> they were both law-y games 17:04:14 well then. 17:04:20 elliott: Yes but what if we could? 17:04:29 i have signed contracts that have clauses like "In this document, the word "he" shall refer to blah blah" 17:04:30 :) 17:04:40 and "The word "or" shall mean "either/or"" 17:04:42 and crap like that 17:04:50 then we would be in a magical fantasy land where there would be no point to ahve words with gendered connotations anyway 17:04:54 so... 17:04:58 yeah, it's like the whole thing with "well isn't actually racist, it really means , as if like, saying so magically removes all the meaning it's gathered after 200 years 17:05:07 " 17:05:10 closed that quote for you 17:05:11 yeah 17:05:14 something something hofstadter 17:05:15 sorry XD 17:05:30 probably everything we are saying is part of some quote in a parenthical someone started in 2004 17:05:31 or the sort of opposite "well when I said it I didn't *mean* it in a racist way so it's fine" 17:05:33 person paper on the purity of language? 17:05:36 the longest IRC message ever 17:05:46 doesthiswork: quite 17:05:48 )" 17:05:56 no it's the other way around 17:05:59 you fool!!!! 17:06:01 now what will we do 17:06:07 syntax error 17:06:12 universe collapsing in 5, 4, 3 ... 17:06:25 finally i can stop wasting time on irc 17:06:42 » 17:06:55 elliott: I've kind of inadvertantly/subconsciously defaulted to the "hey guys" thing myself but when I do it consciously I just try to pick better phrases 17:06:58 like "hi everyone" 17:07:10 i say "y'all" and i'm not ashamed of it 17:07:14 i didn't grow up saying it though 17:07:15 olla nosotros? 17:07:20 it's like, there's enough options that I don't feel like it has to be awkward or hard 17:07:21 i'm from the midwest, we have the "neutral" american accent 17:07:22 *holla 17:07:33 I've been in a chatroom that auto-kicked when someone says "y'all" 17:07:37 except for certain words that will get you mocked on the coasts 17:07:38 kmc: not anymore youdon't 17:07:39 "hey assholes" 17:07:41 like using "pop" for soda 17:07:53 I feel ridiculous trying to say y'all XD 17:07:58 yawl 17:08:01 because I am like so not stereotypically southerner or midwestern in the slightest 17:08:03 elliott: "Good morning sinners!" 17:08:11 doesthiswork: how do you mean 17:08:12 i like "peeps" 17:08:22 "Good morning siners!" 17:08:38 good morning signers 17:08:59 kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_cities_vowel_shift 17:09:00 good morning singers 17:09:08 i'm pretty nervous about language stuff in general since i realized how closely tied it is to racism and national suppression >_> 17:09:12 yep 17:09:29 (I read your good morning signers as singers at first, and wanted to do the firey version) 17:11:59 just say "good morning not-bikes" 17:12:05 that will say hi to everyone who matters 17:12:34 :( :( 17:12:50 nikes?? 17:12:55 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 17:15:59 that's capitalist Bike 17:16:14 or greek 17:19:39 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 17:24:39 and i also use "y'all" as a second person plural 17:24:47 er the correct form is youse 17:25:06 vosotros 17:25:07 there is also "all ya'lls" 17:25:16 Wasn't "you" originally plural exclusively? 17:25:20 yes 17:25:42 isn't vosotros only used in spain and argentina/ 17:25:54 yes 17:25:57 Bike, and Saudi Arabia, evidently 17:26:05 Taneb: heh, no 17:26:09 hm, lots of castilian speakers there 17:26:20 But they mention it in passing in Spanish class 17:26:40 In latin, the plural is "vos" and the singular is "tu" 17:26:56 It's similar in French, I believe, but I seem to recall that "vous" can be plural or formal 17:26:56 yeah, my spanish class mentioned the v's but didn't teach us them since it was central america oriented. 17:27:05 indeed 17:27:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-V_distinction 17:27:48 honestly when using "vous" as formal singular I never know whether I should write all the adjectives and stuff in singular or plural 17:28:53 So, between "thou", "you", "y'all", and "all y'all", English has access to four different numbers of you 17:29:45 when was the last time you used thou? 17:29:48 "all y'all" is for the redundancy inclined 17:30:07 Koen_: somewhere from the 1600s to the early 1800s 17:30:22 OHGOD I DIDN'T IMAGINE YOU WOULD BE SO OLD 17:30:46 Koen_, I used "thou" this afternoon 17:30:48 all ya'll exists because y'all tends to be used for situations where prototypically the number of people are indeterminate. 17:31:04 so all ya'll means "each and every one of you" 17:31:19 Taneb: were you courting a lady 17:31:33 Koen_, as it happens, yes 17:31:41 Koen_: in that case, the last time I used "thou" was about six words ago. 17:31:44 you're so transparent 17:32:29 The last time I courted a lady was never. 17:32:35 Not as transparent as this guy: http://25.media.tumblr.com/3456e6adde7f9c89c55dc5afabf269f5/tumblr_ml7amfP5Bt1r3u0x4o4_500.png 17:32:37 ThatOtherPerson: I meant with people who don't discuss the semantics of each and every one of the languages they know on a regular basis 17:33:00 Koen_, that also rules me out 17:33:23 Koen_: then maybe several days ago? 17:33:26 Taneb, is that you 17:33:30 No 17:33:35 I am a strange person and say strange things sometimes. 17:33:36 I am somewhat less transparent 17:33:42 Taneb: were you courting Fiora? 17:33:49 Koen_, no, I was not 17:33:53 what 17:33:55 I believe Fiora was in a different country 17:33:59 what is this conversation 17:34:16 Taneb: were you courting Lymia? 17:34:27 I'm pretty sure Lymia was in a different country again 17:34:30 Phantom_Hoover: I believe we are discussing ladies and how one courts them, if ever. 17:34:47 Koen_: are you just going to name everyone female in the channel & why 17:34:54 The person whom I was courting I do not believe frequents this channel, or indeed IRC 17:35:00 I believe I just did elliott 17:35:07 Wow, a normal human 17:35:15 ThatOtherPerson, not quite 17:35:19 She goes on TVTropes a lot 17:35:27 ooh better than a normal human 17:35:36 -rol- 17:35:39 -rolll- 17:35:42 Taneb: do you discuss the semantics of each and every one of the languages you know on a regular basis with every lady that you have met so far? 17:35:45 * Bike rolls 17:36:05 Koen_, no, only the ones who were interested in this sort of thing 17:36:18 oh good 17:36:42 so what's your standard courting move? 17:36:48 17:36:56 I'm pretty convinced discussion the semantics of sex should work pretty well 17:37:10 We talked about vowel mergers 17:37:22 For instance the cot-caught merger 17:37:23 still not at all clear on how this came up in the first place 17:37:30 if they're scientific they'll feel a deep need to perform the experiment 17:37:37 Phantom_Hoover, I'm being interrogated on my love life 17:37:43 In the context of linguistics 17:37:52 hey! you're the one who brought it to my attention! 17:38:00 You asked! 17:38:10 * Fiora giggles 17:38:28 I'm still surprised I actually have a love life 17:38:32 Giggles are nice. 17:38:50 besides I've just been deemed admissible to a school where apparently everyone is even more of a geek than I am and that includes the suprisingly high number of girls 17:39:11 oh jesus is this still about the 42.fr thing 17:39:20 Fiora: has a guy ever discussed the semantics of a language with you? Other than on IRC, I mean. 17:39:32 Koen_, being a geek is surprisingly gender-neutral 17:39:38 Most of my friends who are geeks are female 17:39:47 And most of my friends who are female are geeks, as it happens 17:39:58 hu 17:40:07 I have approximately 0 friends who are geeks 17:40:32 * Gregor bites the head off of a chicken. 17:40:40 i agree with Gregor 17:40:42 i have approximately 0 friends fuck you won the contest oh yeah 17:40:54 i agree with Bike too 17:40:55 mnoqy, you seem different somehow 17:41:00 Have you had a haircut? 17:41:24 i can't remember the last time i had one of those. wait i think i do -vaguely- 17:41:26 Gregor: huh, what do feathers mixed with blood and eyes and muscle and bones and various organs taste like? 17:41:33 "geek" is a pretty broad category at this point 17:41:42 ThatOtherPerson: Just like chicken. 17:41:52 Taneb: I think mnoqy got an alphabetical sort 17:42:27 kmc, I'm using it in the sense of "willing to be openly enthusiastic of things they like, especially things such as super-hero movies" 17:42:29 geek communities vary widley in terms of gender ratio, and in terms of how they treat women 17:42:58 I don't bite the head off of roosters. 17:43:25 one thing I've learned (from talking to the people who work on this problem) is that if your local language user group meetup is 3% women and you want it to be 30% women, there are some fairly concrete steps you can take to make this happen fairly quickly 17:43:37 oh like what 17:43:37 mnoqy: are you one of those guys to whom the hairdresser says "see you next year" after a haircut? 17:44:06 i went off of hairdressers cold-turkey 17:44:22 realisation of the day: my keyboard's chording is too shitty to play girp 17:44:26 monqy just occasionally burns off his hair 17:45:06 Bike: well the Boston Python group had intro and intermediate classes for "women and their friends", producing a group which is at least 50% women (and ensuring that the men who show up know someone rather than being random creepers) 17:45:27 and this had an immediate effect on the ratio at the gender-neutral events 17:45:40 nice 17:45:46 Phantom_Hoover, that sucks 17:45:53 girp? 17:46:06 ThatOtherPerson, http://www.foddy.net/GIRP.html 17:46:14 going to freshman physics and CS classes and there being a 9/1 ratio is still creepy as hell 17:46:17 It's a climbing sim from the maker of QWOP 17:46:41 My further maths class has a 10:0 male/female ration 17:46:43 should be a dating sim imo 17:46:44 *ratio 17:47:03 A male/female ration would be interesting 17:47:23 http://www.slideshare.net/kellan/more-women-in-engineering-something-that-actually-worked-14630106 17:47:28 And perhaps illegal 17:47:30 this is about Etsy and Hacker School 17:47:36 O_o 17:47:59 (my less far maths class I think is about 4:1) 17:48:16 (my latin class is 1:4) 17:48:32 last week I helped run http://wellesley.openhatch.org/ 17:48:34 (except someone hasn't turned up since Christmas so it's really (1:3) 17:48:35 ) 17:49:07 Phantom_Hoover, I have many keyboards! 17:49:11 "something that ACTUALLY WORKED" i'm sorry kmc but i have to laugh at this subtitle 17:49:46 ugh, ratios 17:50:17 http://image.slidesharecdn.com/firstroundctosummit-121008002521-phpapp02/95/slide-19-728.jpg?1360178044 i still find it hard to believe that they make you actually write out code. i'm so naive 17:50:49 http://image.slidesharecdn.com/firstroundctosummit-121008002521-phpapp02/95/slide-26-728.jpg?1360178044 nice 17:50:50 writing code out on paper sucks ass 17:51:06 ... 17:51:11 yeah i did that a lot in high school 17:51:11 how do you even girp 17:51:12 never again 17:51:17 or qwop for that matter 17:51:26 ThatOtherPerson: are those vim commands 17:51:36 Bike: yeah, I took AP CS, we had to write out C++ code by hand 17:51:42 that's how I finally learned how to draw the & character 17:51:43 it's not easy! 17:51:52 kmc: apparently they are impossible 17:51:55 games 17:52:12 qwop I've never got the hang of 17:52:20 girp I'm almost competent at 17:52:33 i always used to draw & backwards >_> 17:52:39 & is cool i write it all the time 17:53:08 "SUBJECT: WARNING: TAINTED LOCAL VODKA KILLS 11 IN MONGOLIA " these cables are seriously great 17:53:16 i write & as et 17:53:32 you some kinda classicist, boy 17:53:45 i construct & as et 17:53:53 `-` 17:53:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: -`: not found 17:54:03 i "exclude" the middle by not putting any space between the letters 17:54:13 ’-’ 17:55:29 Bike: more recently I've done coding interviews with an actual computer 17:55:37 whoa, man. 17:55:49 often those are only partly about the code, and partly about watching how someone works 17:55:55 how easily they can look up docs, grep a codebase 17:55:59 judging them by their choice of editor 17:56:00 yeah 17:56:02 haha 17:56:25 and yeah, that list of 4 rules from Hacker School is good 17:56:53 my editor habits are weird 17:56:54 the even worse form of (2) that I hear often is "You do know that $foo, right?" 17:57:01 i switch between emacs and vim constantly 17:57:28 i'm always just like, ugh, can't you talk about this without being so elitist 17:57:49 i say that kind of thing impulsively a lot and then feel guilty for being condescending 17:58:00 i usually have emacs on but i use vi to edit files quickly because i'm too dumb to work out emacsclient. i figure knowing both decently isn't so bad, anyway 17:58:01 elliott, you should disappear for a bit then go to an interview done by kmc under a false name 17:58:07 (successfully made this issue about myself) 17:58:43 yeah I complain publicly about how people communicate as a way to commit to communicating better myself 17:58:47 that's maybe half of it 17:58:52 the other half is that i like complaining 17:58:55 I never learnt vim, and am barely competent at emacs 17:59:20 basically you just do C-S-c M- M-x dwim 17:59:42 is that how you exit emacs? 18:00:03 Isn't emacs some sort of OS? 18:00:12 no, you need mount separate 18:00:20 ah 18:00:51 and maybe vim for a text editor? 18:01:08 [joke comparing emacs to an operating system] [sitcom laugh track] 18:01:17 [joke about emacs lacking an editor] [sitcom laugh track] 18:01:34 18:01:42 Man, I want a sitcom laugh track 18:02:04 probably pretty easy to find 18:02:08 Step 1: Get some speakers 18:02:13 "The Soviet Hangover: Alcoholism Threatens Mongolia's Progress" 18:02:15 Step 2: Glue them to yourself 18:02:16 just have to "know" where to "look" 18:02:28 Step 3: Find laugh track online 18:02:46 Step 4: put it on mp3 player, plug it in to speakers 18:03:00 Step 5: press "play" whenever you make a bad joke 18:04:31 It would be interesting if someone actually did that. 18:05:04 Everyone would hate me 18:05:11 it would be awful :☺) 18:10:24 Absolutely dreadful. 18:10:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:12:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:18:19 ThatOtherPerson: semantics of language...? I.. I don't know... probably someone has rambled about that at some point... 18:18:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:18:33 :D 18:18:40 I have a really bad memory, I can't really remember many details beyond a week or two ago... 18:18:58 * kmc too 18:19:00 Right, it probably wouldn't be that memorable 18:20:03 I'd probably only remember it if it was a more emotional moment (like if it was frustrating or painful or something...) 18:20:15 babe are you a kalmyk because *rambles about altaic theory for twenty minutes* 18:20:36 hahaha 18:21:06 all the ladies love historical linguistics 18:22:20 What, precisely, is a kalmyk? 18:23:08 the kalmyk republic is part of western russia. the kalmyk people who make up about half of it are mongolic and speak a mongolian language called kalmyk. 18:23:11 I guess I couuuld argue that someone telling me about how 'cunt' isn't a gendered insult is 'telling me about the semantics of language' 18:23:15 this is "fiora-relevant" because it's a chess place. 18:23:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:23:44 Fiora: I feel sorry for you D: 18:24:03 The Altaic theory is an idea that a couple asian language groups like Turkic, Mongolic, and Japonic are all actually part of a larger grouping called Altaic. It's pretty non-mainstream. 18:24:46 Whoa 18:24:52 Fiora: ;_; 18:25:14 whoa? 18:25:26 aohw 18:25:27 Fiora: i'm trying to imagine a pickup line for this 18:26:30 it's not working 18:26:53 i just imagine a guy in a suit and fedora walking up to a seat at the bar, and opening his mouth, and then cockroaches pour out 18:27:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:28:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:28:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:31:08 Bike: I am like dying laughing at that metaphor 18:31:22 metap- oh, right, yeah 18:31:42 gross 18:32:25 fact: whenever i try to picture a stereotypical bar scene, i always think of that one scene from naked lunch 18:35:22 naked lunch? 18:35:46 the cronenberg film adapted from the burroughs book 18:36:04 guy walks up to a bar and the mugwump, a weird looking alien creature starts advising him about a gay cruise 18:36:26 i misread that as gay cuisine. like, what's that. 18:36:41 Dick. 18:36:51 Richard. 18:37:54 I can't find the bar scene so have some Zappa instead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MsO1FLYee8 18:38:02 m-hm 18:38:05 -disappointedly- 18:39:48 mnoqy: Gay cuisine is nothing but spotted dick. 18:40:02 sorry you're a bit late to the party 18:40:07 Bike: you also didn't get to see the part of that conversation where the guy was arguing about how complaining about someone "PMSing" isn't at all sexist <.< 18:40:23 wait is this the ##asm thing 18:40:36 yeah 18:40:45 ##asm sounds like hell 18:40:45 yeah i think i remember that, unfortunately 18:41:06 i couldn't tell you, i got banned, 'cos i'm a rebel. ain't be tamed 18:41:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:41:34 got banned for using AT&T syntax 18:41:36 "just unforgivable" 18:41:38 XP 18:41:41 yeah I lasted like an hour there 18:41:42 heh 18:41:55 it was actually fine most of the time? like it was better than ##c even 18:41:59 this also led me to learn that freenode doesn't count slurs as discriminatory or something 18:42:03 despite not really having a good mod like ##c does 18:42:03 "better than ##c" 18:42:08 whatever, fuck the police 18:42:13 * ThatOtherPerson joins ##asm 18:42:15 (though she's mostly pretty hands off) 18:42:24 Fiora: you sure it wasn't just that guy whose name started with X who was good? 18:42:36 is ##asm about asm in general, or a particular asm in particular? 18:42:36 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 18:42:39 @messages 18:42:39 oerjan said 1d 18h 8m 55s ago: You seem to have missed User:EzraFrier 18:42:42 okay maybe -_- but like there were lots of people who asked questions and talked about things and people even like, asked me for help in PM 18:42:44 what does ##asm think of TERSE 18:42:44 ais523: in general 18:42:48 Fiora: oh, huh 18:42:49 If I had to guess it'd be about x86 assembly. 18:43:00 and I got a grand total of just two creepy people the whole time, that's a new record 18:43:03 no, it's general, even says so in the topic, and people asked about ARM &c. 18:43:14 i spent like a week in ##c helping beginners, and then one day I answered a question wrong and they were like STFU YOU FUCKING MORON GET OUT 18:43:27 But I don't really want to stick around watching people get called "PMSing cunts" 18:43:27 it was about variable length arrays "who even uses those" 18:43:29 * pikhq_ does not envy women on the internet. 18:43:41 kmc: I love VLAs. 18:43:44 kmc: it really seems to wildly depend on who's active in the channel 18:43:48 !tell oerjan good catch, I indeed missed it 18:43:49 does ##c actually have good ops 18:43:55 Not on the stack, mind, but hey. 18:43:56 I rejoined it after having like, a 4 hour conversation with the moderator there 18:43:57 because that seems to be at odds with ##c being the worst channel in the universe 18:44:05 who is kind of wonderful 18:44:06 and fun to talk with 18:44:09 foo(char bar[static 4]) is quite nice. 18:44:13 well, one of the moderators,I don't know if there's others 18:44:17 ais523: @ 18:44:18 not ! 18:44:23 @tell oerjan good catch, I indeed missed it 18:44:23 Consider it noted. 18:44:26 Or foo(size_t x, char bar[x]) 18:44:32 elliott: right 18:44:39 hmm… the most annoying thing about rebinding caps lock 18:44:45 is that in the rare cases you turn it on by mistake 18:44:50 it takes a while to remember how to turn it off 18:45:03 (I rebound the caps lock key to compose, and the caps lock command to shift+shift) 18:45:29 is caps lock ever useful 18:45:37 It makes a great control. 18:45:40 when you're typing disclaimers 18:45:47 i just hold shift 18:45:49 I've got l-win as compose. 18:45:59 pikhq_: huh? super is a really useful key 18:46:04 pikhq_: did you see the linux exploit that happened because someone used a VLA on the stack 18:46:07 Erm, r-win 18:46:09 and kernel stacks are only 8kB 18:46:12 L-win is super. 18:46:15 pikhq_: right 18:46:19 this laptop doesn't have an r-win 18:46:21 i use the silly menu key as compose. no R-win… 18:46:23 and by "someone" i mean econet.ko 18:46:29 kmc: No, but I can imagine. :) 18:46:30 oh gosh. a VLA in the kernel? 18:46:31 mnoqy: the menu key is actually useful 18:46:41 econet.ko? 18:46:59 Fiora: VLAs in general are quite nice. The problem is, *on the stack* they are an attack waiting to happen. 18:47:05 mnoqy: it's probably the fastest way to correct typos when you can't remember what the correct spelling is 18:47:13 Fiora: Linux driver for Econet, a network protocol used by British home computers from the 80's 18:47:18 a driver that /nobody/ uses anymore 18:47:20 i can't work out how to set my compose key 18:47:22 it's horrible 18:47:29 ais523: good point except i dont use editors with that feature =/ 18:47:29 But when passed as arguments they make array handling somewhat nicer. 18:47:32 since nobody uses it, it's full of bugs 18:47:40 but until recently, it was part of the kernel and built by most distros 18:47:51 and it would even auto-load if unprivileged userspace tried to create an Econet socket! 18:47:52 for some reason my e-mail composition spell check doesnt work 18:47:54 pikhq_: um, VLAs can be not on the stack? 18:48:07 kmc: wow 18:48:18 Fiora: Yes. void foo(size_t x, char bar[x]) 18:48:42 Or void foo(size_t x, size_t y, char bar[x][y]) 18:48:47 that's pretty cute 18:48:56 Fiora: http://pastebin.com/88EPCd2q a fun exploit for one bug in econet 18:49:07 oh, isn't that just the same as a pointer...? 18:49:08 well it actually exploits 3 bugs 18:49:10 or is there some different 18:49:12 *difference 18:49:17 the most interesting one is not in econet 18:49:21 Fiora: No, it's actually an array. Straight-up a full array. 18:49:37 Fiora: As opposed to void foo(char bar[4]), which is just a pointer. 18:49:46 And void foo(char bar[static 4]) is also an array. 18:49:50 very cute 18:49:55 @_@ I will never quite get C 18:49:56 I will never quite get C 18:50:03 thanks lambdabot 18:50:12 For what it's worth, this is a fairly obscure bit of C. 18:50:40 super obscure I'd say 18:50:45 Added in C99, and many people still avoid C99 features like the plague. 18:50:55 i like C99 :< 18:51:00 I love C99. 18:51:08 But some people think they should still support MSVC. 18:51:13 c99 is better than that other standard 18:51:17 i married c99 18:51:18 (the IE6 of compilers) 18:52:30 Microsoft >:( 18:53:15 kmc: geez I don't understand 90% of that but that's amazing 18:53:27 the exploit? i can go into it 18:53:42 oh, you can? um, I'd love to listen if you want to 18:53:46 also there's a walkthrough in my talk about kernel exploits: http://ugcs.net/~keegan/talks/kernel-exploit/talk.pdf 18:54:13 maybe look through that first, and i can answer questions 18:55:10 * Fiora dives in 18:55:43 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:55:48 kmc: the only exploit on a stack-VLA is allocating more data than actually fits on the stack, right? 18:56:02 that's the main one anyway 18:56:04 oh kmc so like before I touch this, someone had an interesting question in ##c-unregistered that was like. actually really interesting 18:56:04 Someone tell me an esolang that will take ~1-2 hours to implement 18:56:09 because I am bored 18:56:10 that usually causes a segfault in userspace, but the kernel doesn't have that escape valve 18:56:23 they're porting Jedi Academy to Linux from the open source code, and they were wondering what a particular code snippet did 18:56:29 ThatOtherPerson: hmm 18:56:34 and now I realize like. why so many programs are hard to port... 18:56:34 kmc: btw I segfaulted gcc before 18:56:39 ThatOtherPerson: Eodermdrome 18:56:41 With a VVLA 18:56:42 it had a NULL pointer check that looked like this: 18:56:45 mnoqy: hahahaha :) 18:56:49 if((int)psString > 0) 18:56:58 Fiora: ouch 18:56:58 ais523: well in Linux userspace anyway, the stack is usually an auto-growing mapping 18:57:14 ThatOtherPerson: write a brainfuck interpreter in 60 different programming languages 18:57:18 kmc: yes but it's possible to mmap something next to the stack guard page 18:57:21 and then it can't grow any more 18:57:24 yeah 18:57:29 and then it will fault 18:57:30 and of course that code works wonderfully... 18:57:33 ... on windows 32-bit ... 18:57:36 AnotherTest: I don't even know 60 different programming languages :/ 18:57:39 ... without /LARGEADDRESSAWARE... -_- 18:57:48 Fiora: it works quite neatly on 64-bit, too 18:58:01 because the addresses that map to negative as a signed int are all reserved by the kernel, IIRC 18:58:02 although, hmm 18:58:03 Fiora: :/ 18:58:05 that's physical memory 18:58:06 bad code 18:58:15 it'd work if it was (intptr_t)ptr on 64-bit, I think? 18:58:16 ais523: also, int may still be 32-bit 18:58:16 does the kernel potentially map stuff into virtual memory with negative addresses? 18:58:17 ais523: on a lot of 64-bit architectures, int is smaller than void* 18:58:20 olsner: oh right 18:58:20 such as amd64 18:58:39 but (int) might be too small 18:58:58 ThatOtherPerson: just looking through mine, Suffolk is unimplemented but shouldn't take too long to implement 18:59:01 why do people even write that, why not if (psString) 18:59:02 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Suffolk 18:59:05 also lol hungarian notation 18:59:09 but it breaks on linux 32-bit because linux uses the bottom 3GB for userspace, right? 18:59:14 I think 18:59:19 * Fiora is going by the chart in your pdf <.< 18:59:23 for people who love manifest types but hate typechecking 18:59:32 Fiora: it does (on i386 anyway) 18:59:33 I once wrote a function that took a uint16_t[65536] when I was tired and not thinking 18:59:39 so yeah, your stack will typically have a 'negative' address 18:59:43 since it's at the top of the userspace 3GB 19:00:00 (also you can build a kernel with a different split, or even one where userspace and kernel have different page tables) 19:00:05 ais523: thanks! 19:00:08 (but 3GB / 1GB is the default and nearly universal afaik) 19:00:32 also, i386 programs running on an x86_64 kernel get a full 4GB 19:00:50 that explains why the code broke then, I guess 19:00:51 actually, nowadays from the userspace point of view, things like the stack are in random locations 19:00:54 to make exploits harder to write 19:00:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:01:33 anyway, the thing that confuses me, is why compare a pointer to 0 for less than/greater than? 19:01:44 on most processors, it's exactly as efficient as the correct code that checks for equality 19:02:28 I have no idea ._. 19:02:33 I guess on some microcontrollers I've worked on, testing to see if a number is negative is more efficient than testing to see if it's zero 19:02:35 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:02:36 people write bad code :/ 19:02:36 but not testing to see if a number is positive 19:02:46 (testing for negative is testing a single bit, which is slightly easier than testing an entire byte) 19:02:59 if it's not merely stupid, it might be checking for something special - could e.g. HANDLEs have the upper bit set? 19:03:31 olsner: special pointer-like values on Windows tend to be odd 19:03:36 also executable ASLR is almost useless on i386: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/177905 19:03:38 ais523: don't most processors have a circuit that ands together every bit in the register to make zero-checking efficient 19:03:43 only 8 bits of randomness 19:03:56 because all legit int pointers on Windows are even 19:03:58 I don't know if stack ASLR is more useful; probably, since the stack top doesn't have to be page aligned 19:04:03 at least, that are used by the kernel 19:04:22 quintopia: they do, and so did this one; however, it cost more words of program to tell the microcontroller to actually use them 19:05:27 oic 19:06:06 kmc: ohhhhhhhh that's how the null pointer exploit trick works. putting the payload at 0 with mmap 19:06:15 is there some reason the OS... lets you do that? O_O 19:06:28 like why is mmap to 0 a thing 19:06:35 it doesn't anymore 19:06:36 the OS might've gotten confused and forgotten to prevent it 19:06:53 ahhh 19:06:57 Linux added sysctl vm.mmap_min_addr in like 2007 19:07:02 but it still gets set to 0 sometimes 19:07:12 how do null pointer exploits like that work now? 19:07:15 they don't 19:07:17 oh 19:07:32 but similar exploits that involve an invalid pointer that isn't NULL might work 19:07:33 but I remember there was a thing a little bit ago about a null pointer check being optimized improperly because of a thig 19:07:35 and that was an exploit? 19:08:15 Fiora: I think that was not that recent, and would only work if mmap_min_addr is set to 0 or if the kernel is vulnerable to any of numerous mmap_min_addr bypasses that have been discovered throughout the year 19:08:19 years* 19:08:34 for a while if you installed Wine on Ubuntu, it would set mmap_min_addr = 0 globally 19:08:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:08:45 because, like, Win16 programs need to map stuff at zero? 19:08:47 also dosemu 19:08:55 oh wow >_< 19:09:09 http://blog.cr0.org/2009/06/bypassing-linux-null-pointer.html 19:10:12 http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.30/fs/binfmt_elf.c#L976 sigh 19:10:57 Linux developers value features like "can run SVr4 binaries on Linux" over security 19:11:02 even if nobody ever does this ever 19:12:00 it "might" be a good idea to make sure that even if the user program maps something at 0 it doesn't affect the kernel 19:12:03 guh, who uses system v binaries at all 19:12:23 olsner: that's hard to do though 19:12:48 if you want userspace and kernel to have different page tables, that improves security greatly, but also greatly increases the overhead of a system call 19:12:56 on x86 anyway 19:13:06 because switching page tables involves a TLB flush 19:13:09 something about @ 19:13:34 some architectures have tagged TLBs that can hold onto entries from address spaces that are not currently in use 19:13:36 could they use VM instructions to handle that? 19:13:44 elliott, have you done any work on @ since you met me 19:13:44 Fiora: yes! I heard of someone doing that 19:13:52 don't have a link though :/ 19:13:53 so like, userspace is a """VM""" 19:13:53 Taneb: maybe 19:13:57 i have no idea 19:13:59 Taneb, i don't think he's ever done any work on @ 19:14:13 at.html 19:14:17 gosh that's. that's actually a pretty cool idea 19:14:21 "sort of work on @" 19:14:21 if you find it poke me with it, that sounds really fun 19:14:23 hm ARM has tagged TLBs, that's good 19:15:14 I think x86 also has tagged TLBs nowadays 19:15:38 it has the ability to set 'global' mappings that don't get flushed automatically 19:15:49 i don't know of anything beyond that, setting aside VMX / SVM virtualization extensions 19:16:36 "Invalidates mappings in the translation lookaside buffers (TLBs) and paging-struc-ture caches based on the invalidation type specified in the first operand andprocessor context identifier (PCID) invalidate descriptor specified in the secondoperand." 19:16:44 is a processor context identifier related to this? 19:16:47 for that matter 19:16:52 what is a processor context identifier -_- 19:16:58 hm i don't know 19:17:05 what I was thinking of was the ASID that you can set when you set the pointer to the page tables 19:17:34 http://www.realworldtech.com/westmere/ talks about it 19:17:42 so it does sound like a tagged tlb basically 19:17:44 that's cool! 19:17:50 i wonder if linux uses it 19:18:03 Fiora: have you used http://livegrep.com 19:18:29 oooh, so it's a tagged TLB thing but aimed at VMs 19:18:37 INVPCID is a new instruction in um... I think haswell? I'm not sure 19:18:48 livegrep...? what does it do 19:18:56 searches the linux kernel, really fucking fast 19:19:00 with regexes 19:19:24 haswell has a lot of interesting stuff like that it seems, like it has smep too 19:19:32 oooh. 19:19:33 what flavor of regex is this 19:19:38 .... I don't know regexes though >_< 19:20:00 http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=%5B0-9a-fA-F%5D%7B8%7D-%5B0-9a-fA-F%5D%7B4%7D-%5B0-9a-fA-F%5D%7B4%7D-%5B0-9a-fA-F%5D%7B4%7D-%5B0-9a-fA-F%5D%7B12%7D 19:20:28 wow 19:21:44 nice 'n' readable url 19:21:56 ye 19:21:57 readaburl 19:22:14 I stopped reading at "linux", what did I miss 19:22:38 saying anything of value maybe? 19:23:01 whoa!!!! rude 19:23:06 :( 19:23:08 thanks mnoqy 19:23:10 or should i say 19:23:13 tahnks 19:23:18 hahaha 19:23:24 > sort "thanks" 19:23:25 > sort "thanks" 19:23:27 "ahknst" 19:23:27 "ahknst" 19:23:28 noodl..... 19:23:47 if I were a haskell person we'd have been three to type that command! 19:23:56 wow elliott 19:24:12 welliott 19:24:14 > "thanks" ^. to sort 19:24:16 "ahknst" 19:24:20 how are you doing? very welliott 19:25:05 :t to 19:25:06 (Conjoined p, Gettable f) => (s -> a) -> p a (f a) -> p s (f s) 19:25:08 what's going on? not melliott 19:28:07 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 19:28:30 > ["thanks", "lens"] ^. to sort 19:28:32 ["lens","thanks"] 19:28:37 > ["thanks", "lens"] ^. traverse . to sort 19:28:39 "ahknstelns" 19:29:01 that sounds like some ancient place that should be in ruins 19:30:34 :t (^.) 19:30:35 s -> Getting a s t a b -> a 19:30:43 elliott: that's a mean thing to say about a place! 19:32:06 itt: getting a stab 19:32:56 mnoqy: it's RE2 regexes 19:33:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:33:36 kmc: you have no idea how tired i am of getting a stab jokes 19:33:40 they're as bad as burrito jokes in #haskell 19:33:43 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:33:46 lolol 19:35:21 no monad. radio! 19:36:52 ++ 19:38:42 -!- copumpkin has quit. 19:39:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:42:46 ++ 19:47:37 -!- surma has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:50:46 q 19:52:24 mnoqy: oh i get it 19:52:37 mnoqy: mnoqy is a variant spelling of gnocchi 19:53:30 Is that the thing with the tomato and the toast 19:53:54 Taneb I think that's a pizza 19:54:42 gnocchi mnoqy gnocchi mnoqy 19:54:47 mmm, gnocchi. mnoqy 19:54:56 bruschetta 19:56:01 gnostic monqy 19:58:07 bruschetta is good. never've had gnocchi woops. 19:58:27 gnocchi is not the same things as bruschetta mnoqy................................ 19:58:38 mnoqy: imo you can't keep this nick unless you have some gnocchi 19:58:48 that explains why i've had bruschetta but not gnocchi 19:59:05 good explanation 19:59:08 or explains how? it explains something. 19:59:33 what if we made shirts have irregular button spacing so that it was harder to miss-button them 19:59:39 but did you know the law that you're not allowed to mention bruschetta and gnocchi in the same sentence woops 19:59:58 it's an ancient italian law, now you're not allowed to go to italy ever 20:00:36 ok 20:01:05 mgnoqcchiy 20:01:17 yes 20:01:29 hey mnoqy you're the best 20:01:34 monqy++ mnoqy++ 20:01:36 thanks shachaf(???????????????????????) 20:01:59 oh no what's that thing inthe parentheses 20:02:09 question marks 20:02:36 w hy 20:03:30 thachaf 20:03:30 i dont understand why you say the thing you're saying 20:05:40 YEAH WHY DYOU EVEN BOTHER OPENING THAT MOUTH OF YOURS 20:06:01 wow mnoqy did you mean that 20:06:08 that's prttyr ude 20:07:07 i did not mean the thing that koen said 20:07:13 pls do not put words in my mouth 20:07:30 oh good 20:07:34 ciao 20:07:37 !list 20:07:37 well note that I wouldn't be able to put words in your mouth IF YOU KEPT IT SHUT 20:07:46 Koen_... stop it 20:07:58 my apologies won't happen again 20:08:00 Koen_: you're being pretty rude and making this channel worse for everyone 20:08:16 Koen_: your apologies haven't even happened once, it's not likely that they'll happen again at this rate 20:08:51 maybe I'll add an extra coma and maybe even a pronoun 20:08:54 wait, is this a serious thing 20:09:17 pff who knows 20:09:19 we just don't know 20:09:36 @hug Bike 20:09:36 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 20:10:04 buh? 20:11:02 ye 20:11:16 hi kmc 20:11:18 `welcome kmc 20:11:20 kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:12:56 I shouldn't be allowed to program on serious things at this time at night 20:12:57 Or at all 20:13:45 yes, tired are rather we 20:14:43 I've never really understood why Europe and Asia are considered to be separate continents 20:15:21 europe is more of a peninsula hth 20:15:36 I'm pretty sure I could drive to Taneb's house from here, if I was crazy and wanted to drive forever. 20:15:47 ThatOtherPerson, I'm on an island 20:15:52 You'd have to catch a train 20:15:55 ThatOtherPerson: How far is it? 20:16:00 aw rats 20:16:15 that sounded surrealistic 20:16:23 You could probs drive to mnoqy's house 20:16:46 Taneb: oh right, you're already in GB, which is an island, even if there's a tunnel to it 20:17:59 but a drive from me to Taneb is somewhere around 6,629 km; 69 hours according to google maps 20:18:25 http://goo.gl/maps/p0gnf 20:18:49 when i was in Latvia there were signs for buses to London 20:18:52 they're pretty slow. 20:19:31 ThatOtherPerson, to drive to Finland you have to choose whether you'd rather drive through Russia or Denmark 20:20:33 I could drive to South Africa from here too... 20:20:45 ThatOtherPerson, important question 20:20:45 kmc: like through the chunnel or what 20:20:47 Can you drive 20:20:50 Yikes, the Americas are kinda lonely and off in a corner, aren't they 20:20:52 Bike: and/or boats 20:21:10 Taneb: no but that's not really a prerequisite for driving in Saudi Arabia 20:21:27 ThatOtherPerson: half the world is a pretty big corner as corners go imo 20:21:36 yeah :D 20:21:58 shachaf stole my gnocchi joke... but i didn't make it in #esoteric wow 20:22:01 of course you can't actually drive from north to south america 20:22:08 i think some of them take a boat across to sweeden 20:22:12 so it's more like two corners 20:22:15 nooodl: oh no did you make it about mnoqy 20:22:20 There' 20:22:21 yeah 20:22:25 nooodl, what's your gnocci joke 20:22:25 nooodl: was it in ##crawl 20:22:31 s like a 15 mile gap in the Trans-American Highway, right? 20:22:35 It takes me about 24 hours to get to my grandparents' house in California from my house here 20:22:37 yeah, in panama 20:22:47 my gnocchi joke is: mnoqy, gnocchi, 20:22:55 looks like ecolines runs southwest to warszawa and then west through berlin and amsterdam at crosses at calais (but maybe not on the train) 20:22:56 the jungle part specifically 20:22:57 ThatOtherPerson, it's gonna turn out your grandparents are shachaf, isn't it 20:23:07 it was in a ~secret channel~ 20:23:20 nooodl: wow, a secret???? 20:23:21 of course driving from northern colombia down to the tierra del fuego must be, uh, exciting 20:23:21 The Americas used to be connected, but some goofsters decided to cut them apart 20:23:24 not to mention the amazon 20:23:39 a man, a plan, a canal, shachaf 20:23:49 nooodl: was it in a ~secret channel~ that you and mnoqy are both in 20:23:58 pikhq_: 99 mile, apparently! 20:24:11 nooodl: what was that channel called 20:24:28 wow wait the highway doesn't even hit brazil, let alone paraguay and such 20:24:29 bullcrap 20:24:36 well it wouldn't be very ~secret~ if i told 20:24:50 DR Congo is huge 20:25:08 unofficially the trans-american highway does extend to tierra del fuego i thought 20:25:11 I guess you can probably get to most of Brazil from Buenos Aires though. 20:25:13 as in, there are roads that connect through 20:25:14 nooodl: that's ok "i don't mind" 20:25:22 kmc: Yeah, but it would be kind of a pain, I mean. 20:25:28 also north to deadhorse or whatever 20:25:31 There's a whole lot of mountains and stuff. 20:25:33 Whitehorse? 20:25:33 but not through the darién gap :) 20:25:42 uh, wherever the alaska highway ends 20:25:44 mnoqy: if shachaf asks you about secret channels forever now i'm sorry 20:25:48 oh, no, there's a place called Deadhorse, wow 20:25:58 i was thinking the capital of the northwest territories ._. 20:26:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deadhorse_Alaska_aerial_view.jpg the name seems appropriate. 20:26:21 let me take you down, 'cause i'm going to / secret channels 20:26:27 Bike, Yellowknife? 20:26:45 Whitehorse is in the Yukon 20:26:46 agh whitehorse is capital of the /yukon/ 20:26:49 canadians. fuckers 20:26:54 er, not the alaska highway, the dalton highway 20:26:58 yukon say that again!!!!!!!!!!!! 20:27:00 which has street view :) 20:27:03 shachaf: ho ho ho 20:27:43 mnoqy: so tell me about secret channels forever 20:28:29 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/PanAmericanHwy.png 20:28:32 shachaf: probably it'd get old pretty quickly 20:29:01 mnoqy: ok so just tell me 20:29:15 Des Moines doesn't merit a dot on this map :( 20:29:27 kmc: "yeah, i'm takin' a vacation down in el salvador" "oh, going through denver or minneanapolis?" 20:29:32 yep 20:29:49 i can tell people I grew up by the pan-amerigan highway 20:29:51 sounds so cool 20:30:36 pan-amereegan 20:30:45 oh the transsiberian highway is fully connected 20:30:53 way to drop theh ball americas 20:32:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0_%22%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%22,_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD_%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0.jpg very modern looking 20:32:13 great url 20:32:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:42 kmc: what do you think about the ""transcontinental railroad"" 20:32:47 great url. 20:32:55 imo that url is missing a crucial letter just saying 20:33:03 shachaf: in US? don't know where it is 20:33:06 probably p. in favor tho 20:33:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Transcontinental_Railroad that's a long intro section........ 20:33:42 It's not around anymore, is it? 20:33:50 I mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Transcontinental_Railroad 20:33:53 9289 km. that's p. long 20:33:59 i don't know, isn't some of the right of way still in use? 20:34:08 "hundreds of miles are still in service today, especially through the Sierra Nevada Mountains and canyons in Utah and Wyoming. While the original rail has long since been replaced because of age and wear, and the roadbed upgraded and repaired, the lines generally run on top of the original, handmade grade." 20:34:14 that intro is way too long 20:38:30 hmm do they still have rail barons today 20:38:35 kmc should be a rail baron imo 20:38:51 they don't have 20:39:13 i should move to central asia and become a pipeline baron 20:39:41 oerjan: they're talking about you oerjan 20:39:46 13:39 applicative, ski: equivalent doesn't mean equally useful. Twan's version keeps the 'next' 'f' in the free applicative that you need for interpretation exposed without recursion. Oerjan's requires you to walk uselessly over n levels to get to it. 20:39:50 etc. 20:40:25 kmc: do it 20:41:55 kmc: we already have like thousands of oil princes over here 20:42:14 they're literal princes though. it's just not the same 20:42:23 There might not be an opening for an pipeline baron 20:42:24 is that like #haskell and all the "project oiler" people 20:42:45 also is saudi arabia considered part of central asia now because i thought it was pretty far west 20:42:51 ThatOtherPerson, barons are pretty low on the nobility thingy 20:43:04 So they can be subordinate to oil princes 20:43:12 Bike, it's nowhere near central asia 20:43:16 god geopolitics terms make no fucking sense 20:43:28 Well, there's a totally different nobility thingy here 20:43:31 the "middle east" is west/south of "central asia" 20:43:34 that's fine because geopolitics also makes no fucking sense 20:43:38 It's all very tribal 20:43:40 fair enough 20:44:09 i like that the premier theory of international relations is based on the suspposition that it's all anarchic nonsense 20:44:25 which theory is that? 20:44:31 realism 20:44:50 'anarchy' being the really used term, 'nonsense' not so much but i was Humorously Exaggerating 20:45:43 Bike we have a No Humor policy here 20:45:59 kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_international_relations 20:46:02 kmc: How does Cygwin fork(), anyway? 20:46:06 poorly? 20:46:08 i don't know :( 20:46:22 Well, other than that. 20:46:29 It can't be that poor because it seems to work. 20:46:30 magic 20:46:40 But Win32 doesn't give you anything like that, does it? 20:47:01 Win32 is extremely confusing and should not be touched, iirc 20:47:19 cygwin is like a dancing bear 20:47:44 shachaf: http://cygwin.com/faq/faq.api.html#faq.api.fork 20:48:05 O_o 20:48:49 shachaf: basically, it goes through a lot of effort, calling a whole bunch of windows API functions, and somehow manages to replicate UNIX fork functionality 20:48:51 oh 20:49:04 fun 20:49:06 so it just cheats 20:49:20 imo cygwin more like badideawin 20:49:26 cyg.win++ 20:49:36 if JOS can implement copy-on-write fork in userspace then why not cygwin :( :( 20:54:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:57:13 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:59:45 shachaf: hm so (re #mosh) it might rely on the fact that every DLL is mapped at the same address in every process 20:59:56 which I think is mostly true in Windows? 21:04:31 I thought it was a different address in every process but the same address between runs of the same process or something like that. 21:04:52 yeah maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Position-independent_code#Windows_DLLs 21:05:21 At any rate I heard that ASLR is done once per boot or something like that. 21:05:30 yeah 21:05:40 DLLs are not position-independent code; they get relocated on load 21:05:57 Oh, maybe I'm wrong on the first part. 21:06:06 OK. 21:07:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:07:58 (back later) 21:11:29 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:14:58 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:19:50 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 21:23:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:25:00 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 21:25:01 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:25:04 I KNOW THAT 21:25:08 oh message 21:25:15 @messages 21:25:16 ais523 said 2h 40m 53s ago: good catch, I indeed missed it 21:26:02 shachaf: in fact i really knew it before that recent blog summary post about different versions. 21:27:26 but somehow i got caught up by the immediate praise anyhow. 21:28:45 oerjan: I wasn't saying you don't know it, I was saying #haskell was talking about you. 21:29:26 ah. 21:30:34 imo unswat me 21:30:48 sorry, second law of thermodynamics 21:31:29 every swat has an equal and opposite unswat? 21:31:36 you can remind me next time you do something bad, and we'll leave one out, ok? 21:31:48 How about I do something bad now? 21:31:59 olsner: you are confusing with newton's laws 21:32:13 shachaf: well if you _want_ to use it up already... 21:32:38 `run for f in wisdom/*; do sed -i s/dal/dahl/g "$f"; done 21:33:18 how _does_ one refrain from swatting with an extra space prepended again. 21:33:34 ? 21:35:10 * oerjan refuses to believe shachaf is that absent-minded. 21:35:25 The space was on purpose, of course. 21:35:32 I just am not managing to parse your sentence. 21:35:38 ah. 21:36:47 (how does one refraing (from (swatting (with ((an extra space) prepended)))) again. 21:36:54 *). 21:37:01 *refrain 21:37:33 actually 21:37:36 I don't get it. 21:37:38 :-( 21:37:39 ｀run for f in wisdom/*; do sed -i s/dal/dahl/g "$f"; done 21:37:50 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:37:54 (how does one refraing (from swatting) (with ((an extra space) prepended))) again). also works. 21:37:58 *refrain 21:38:48 it's really bad that you don't get it. i may have to refrain from swatting you for it. 21:39:54 `? oerjan 21:39:56 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian. 21:41:06 `run sed -i 's/$/ And hates Roald Dahl./' wisdom/oerjan 21:41:09 No output. 21:41:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:41:39 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:41:57 WEST and EEST <-- eesti vabarik 21:42:31 shachaf: hey i'm supposed to be the one lying here 21:43:25 `run sed -i 's/\. And/ who/' wisdom/oerjan 21:43:28 No output. 21:43:46 -!- augur has joined. 21:44:12 `? oerjan 21:44:14 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. 21:44:47 I am thinking of some programming language similar to Lisp using () and so on, as well as {} for quotationed blocks and [] for an alternate syntax and so on, but the program includes the commands to change the program to become the answer, and then it is further compiled into an assembly language, which might also have its own macros, too. 21:44:48 * oerjan invites a giant (not BFG) to shachaf's home 21:45:23 Is your home big enough for any giant? 21:45:34 zzo38: That sounds good. 21:45:46 zzo38: the giant doesn't need to enter 21:46:23 oerjan: O, OK. If you just need to throw stuff in the chimney then it is OK 21:46:40 zzo38: No, the giant reaches in the window and takes you out and eats you. 21:46:48 zzo38: i think you may not be familiar with the roald dahl type of giant. 21:46:59 oerjan: In Hebrew the BFG was called the Ig. 21:47:26 SVK in norwegian. 21:47:27 shachaf: O, well, then their hand has to fit in the window, and it has to be open unless you want the window also broken... 21:47:57 I don't think they care. 21:48:42 If reality is a simulation, are we players or NPCs 21:48:42 Yes, also if you don't care if it is broken or not. 21:48:59 shachaf: well they're pretty big on not leaving conclusive evidence... 21:49:00 GOMADWarrior: That is the question. Nobody knows. 21:49:24 GOMADWarrior: some of each. 21:49:26 oerjan: well they're pretty big on everything 21:49:29 oerjan: they're giants 21:49:32 oerjan: hth 21:50:02 shachaf: which thatsthejoke link do you prefer hth 21:50:58 oerjan: what if the joke is that i was explaining the joke 21:52:37 shachaf: then i link http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke and who wants that? 21:53:02 um explaining the joke is a time honoured tradition 21:53:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:55:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:02:42 and fix the irc rfc to allow more chars <-- um HackEgo cuts off _far_ shorter than irc demands iirc 22:03:58 `run yes | nl 22:04:00 ​ 1y \ 2y \ 3y \ 4y \ 5y \ 6y \ 7y \ 8y \ 9y \ 10y \ 11y \ 12y \ 13y \ 14y \ 15y \ 16y \ 17y \ 18y \ 19y \ 20y \ 21y \ 22y \ 23y \ 24y \ 25y \ 26y \ 27y \ 28y \ 29y \ 30y \ 31y \ 32 22:04:03 wat 22:04:16 who the heck wants tabs 22:05:12 `run ghc -e 'cycle ['0'..'9']' 22:05:19 ​[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2, 22:05:37 wat 22:05:57 that is not how you print String, HackEgo 22:06:18 > cycle ['0'..'9'] 22:06:19 "01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123... 22:06:28 how mysterious.. 22:06:34 it's just a ' issue 22:06:44 `run ghc -e "cycle ['0'..'9']" 22:06:44 `run ghc -e "cycle ['0'..'9']" 22:06:49 ​"0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345 22:06:49 ​"0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345 22:07:19 > 5*80+20+5 22:07:21 425 22:07:24 wat 22:07:33 oh wait it's 4 not 5 22:07:39 > 4*80+20+5 22:07:41 oh my god, operator precedence 22:07:41 345 22:08:01 > length "\"0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345" 22:08:04 347 22:08:06 Bike: um problem? 22:09:13 Bike: i hope you're not referring to anything done above 22:09:31 hope is a good thing to have 22:10:35 `run file `which yes` 22:10:36 ​/usr/bin/yes: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped 22:11:00 optimized 22:11:25 `run ls -l /usr/bin/yes 22:11:27 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 27456 Apr 28 2010 /usr/bin/yes 22:11:35 16:03:09: Is putting large chunks of butter on my bagels a bad idea? 22:11:35 16:03:53: Define "large" 22:11:35 16:04:04: THEY CRUSH THE BAGEL 22:11:48 don't use butter straight out of the fridge hth 22:11:53 I have a 408 byte yes but I didn't really spend any time making it small, other than writing it with no libc etc. 22:12:18 ok i think i am now legitimately scared by gangnam style 22:12:28 @tell Taneb THEY CRUSH THE BAGEL <-- don't use butter straight out of the fridge hth 22:12:29 Consider it noted. 22:12:54 The butter is in a tub of butter that people take out with a knife 22:13:02 Alongside cream cheese and other stuff 22:13:10 some kind of communal butter tu--- EEEW 22:13:15 what the FUCK sgeo 22:14:02 Um. People don't start eating the bagels before they use it 22:14:21 tu-++ 22:14:25 _polite_ people. 22:14:31 why would you keep your cheese and butter in the same tub do you not have two tubs what is wrong with you 22:14:45 you don't want to think about what impolite people do. 22:15:22 There are separate tubs that are next to each other. 22:15:29 oh 22:16:17 Butter is free, cream cheese is not. I think cashier thinks I'm trying to cheat... she keeps asking if it's cream cheese and I say butter 22:16:49 sounds tense 22:16:50 i scream you scream cheese 22:24:37 -!- dysoco has joined. 22:29:40 `run echo -e '\x7fELF\x02\x01\x01\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\x02\0>\0\x01\0\0\0x\0@\0\0\0\0\0@\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\xb0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0@\08\0\x01\0@\0\x03\0\x02\0\x01\0\0\0\x05\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0@\0\0\0\0\0\0\0@\0\0\0\0\0\x9a\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\x9a\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0 \0\0\0\0\0H\xc7\xc7\x01\0\0\0H\xc7\xc6\x98\0@\0H\xc7\xc2\x02\0\0\0H\xc7\xc0\x01\0\0\0\x0f\x05\xeb\xf5y' > bin/y && chmod +x bin/y 22:29:43 No output. 22:29:51 `y 22:29:53 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 22:31:10 inb4 kmc "too many badchars" 22:31:24 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:31:43 is that a muppetlabs program 22:31:54 gcc 22:32:10 -!- DH____ has joined. 22:32:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:32:21 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:36:59 Also why are amd64 instructions so long 22:37:26 They added way too many registers 22:42:57 in this case they're long because someone failed to use shorter equivalent instructions 22:43:44 `run ls -l y 22:43:46 ls: cannot access y: No such file or directory 22:43:47 -!- augur has joined. 22:43:53 `run ls -l bin/y 22:43:54 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 154 Apr 13 22:29 bin/y 22:43:56 Jafet++ 22:44:17 `y hello 22:44:18 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 22:44:21 :-( 22:44:26 That doesn't count. 22:46:54 Fine 22:48:31 hm Olivia Colman was in Look Around You as well 22:48:37 there are only like 12 british actors aren't there 22:52:30 well there are serious ones as well but they mostly just do soaps 22:53:15 also there are actrs but they just perform on stage and hollywood films 22:55:17 At least one British actor I know of did stuff in a TV show after doing stuff in a Hollywood film 22:55:38 Oh, he's Scottish 22:55:53 sgeo 22:55:58 great british venn diagram 22:56:54 Ok, so he is British. 22:57:16 i keep forgetting the venn diagram 22:58:16 Sgeo: let me guess. david tennant 22:58:24 Yes. 22:58:32 `cat bin\y 22:58:33 cat: bin\y: No such file or directory 22:58:43 "the only scottish actor" 22:58:49 hey now 22:58:53 what about robbie coltrane 22:59:22 even Phantom_Hoover doesn't include sean connery, i see 22:59:31 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:59:41 well where does he live these days 22:59:54 good question 23:01:07 "Sean Connery has a villa in Kranidi, Greece. His neighbour is the Dutch crown-prince with whom he shares a helicopter platform." 23:01:39 there's a real sense of community in illionaire villas 23:01:48 "Connery swore never to return to live in Scotland unless it becomes an independent state,." 23:02:08 oh i thought he was in tax exile 23:02:21 there's something about that too 23:03:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlEFfyf79DM 23:03:27 (Harry Potter book 4 spoilers) 23:03:27 perhaps he simply assumed scotland would never become independent 23:03:33 i see the great british venn diagram's accompanying article doesn't mention that 'scotch' is The Wrong Demonym 23:03:47 Sgeo: is that the one where dumbledore dies? 23:04:26 olsner: he supports the scottish national party. although he's no longer allowed to give them money because they passed a law against foreign contributions. 23:05:43 oh, hey, it's david tennant. 23:08:47 there should also be a venn diagram for New York City, Manhattan (borough), Manhattan (island), Long Island, Brooklyn, Queens, etc 23:10:00 the difference between those seems pretty unimportant 23:10:16 MAYBE SCOTLAND IS ALSO UNIMPORTANT 23:10:31 "maybe" 23:10:52 it's confusing when people use "Long Island" to mean "the parts of Long Island that aren't in NYC" 23:11:14 kmc, well was manhattan ever INVADED BY BROOKLYN AND REPRESSED 23:11:31 the differences between Manhattan the island and the political entity are more trivia than important 23:11:46 Phantom_Hoover: insert joke about hipsters 23:13:07 also Ellis Island is split between new jersey and new york in some kind of complicated arrangement 23:13:44 kmc: btw guess who said this (i saw it and thought of you) 23:13:48 through a complicated legal loophole, coney island turns out to still be owned by the royal dutch 23:13:49 uh oh 23:13:50 "One advantage startups have over established companies is that there are no discrimination laws about starting businesses. For example, I would be reluctant to start a startup with a woman who had small children, or was likely to have them soon. 23:13:54 But you're not allowed to ask prospective employees if they plan to have kids soon. Believe it or not, under current US law, you're not even allowed to discriminate on the basis of intelligence. 23:13:58 Whereas when you're starting a company, you can discriminate on any basis you want about who you start it with." 23:14:01 (note: this challenge is easy) 23:14:10 elliott: Some Asshole 23:14:12 did i win 23:14:12 wait who said this 23:14:14 kmc: paul graham 23:14:14 believe it or not, 23:14:18 really? 23:14:19 well 23:14:19 yes 23:14:21 sigh 23:14:22 http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html 23:14:26 well now 23:14:27 my first guess was esr (fuck that guy) 23:14:27 i didn't think he was quite like that 23:14:32 my guess was peter thiel 23:14:38 peace be upon fuck that guy 23:14:40 not sure esr is quite a "startup guy" 23:14:56 i didn't say it was a good guess! also fuck that guy 23:15:00 it's not clear without context that pg is saying this is a good thing, but he probably is 23:15:09 people talked about paul graham in #lisp again today. i'm so glad i have the ability to zone out 23:15:16 well it is a footnote to 23:15:17 Like most startups, ours began with a group of friends, and it was through personal contacts that we got most of the people we hired. This is a crucial difference between startups and big companies. Being friends with someone for even a couple days will tell you more than companies could ever learn in interviews. [2] 23:15:29 yeah 23:15:31 and the whole article is about startups being great obviously 23:15:43 -!- dysoco has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:15:45 that's a p. cool way for a bunch of college educated white guys to hire a bunch of other white guys who went to the same college 23:16:19 i'm gonna go see what he thinks of affirmative action, wish me luck 23:16:55 also "you're not even allowed to discriminate on the basis of intelligence" is a big fucking [citation needed] 23:17:16 hm, no mention of "affirmative" or "action", thank god 23:17:21 i would believe that discriminating against certain kinds of cognitive disabilities could get you in trouble 23:17:22 please tell me he's not conflating 'intelligence' with IQ 23:17:25 but 23:17:57 whatever he means it's dumb, so 23:18:11 I had a mutual friend with the guy who hired me. It makes me feel awkward that that sort of thing is important 23:18:12 « "Did Discrimination Enhance Intelligence of Jews?". National Geographic News.» why did i google this 23:18:30 why indeed 23:18:35 if it makes you feel better that's pretty universal, sgeo 23:18:50 Phantom_Hoover: hard to equate "intelligence" with anything meaningful 23:18:54 (was that written by PG) 23:19:01 i'm pretty sure it doesn't actually mean anything 23:19:24 human universals are pretty lol in general but "people like people people like" and "people are more likely to want to perform activities with someone they like" probably are 23:19:33 oh well 23:19:38 -!- carado has joined. 23:19:41 * kmc feels remaining respect for Paul Graham vanish 23:19:54 what has he ever even done 23:20:03 kmc: says mr startup 23:20:06 uh excuse you phantom he wrote a /webstore/ 23:20:08 in lisp!! 23:20:24 i like how he is sort of a lisp pariah 23:20:29 because nobody likes his book 23:20:37 noobs do 23:20:47 he wrote a book? what is it about? 23:20:48 unfortunately 23:20:56 lisp presumably 23:21:02 elliott: actually i left my startup job just last week 23:21:04 he wrote ANSI Common Lisp which is a pretty... something, intro to programming in CL 23:21:20 he wrote On Lisp 23:21:29 This is your brain on Lisp 23:21:31 whatever it's called 23:21:33 which is kind of insane 23:21:34 Why do all the big CL authors do things that the community recommends against 23:21:46 they do? 23:21:48 he uses macros for /everything/ 23:21:54 want to map a function over a list? WHY NOT A MACRO? 23:21:59 Lambda Over Lisp hates earmuffs, there are some quabbles about PG's stuff in On Lisp (not sure what) 23:22:00 possibly due to the tendency to have Big Authors 23:22:01 basically. 23:22:03 kmc: aw, that sucks 23:22:08 kmc: unless you left it because you found a better job 23:22:10 Sgeo: the lisp community might just be crazy and not make good recommendations 23:22:11 erm, Let over Lambda 23:22:11 in which congratulations 23:22:23 earmuffs are a good recommendation, I think. 23:22:28 `slist 23:22:29 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:22:38 Sgeo: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html if you want to see it in mind numbing detail 23:23:19 but i don't think xach or gigamonkeys write particularly insane code, i dunno 23:23:54 * Sgeo only had PG and LoL in mind 23:24:21 i haven't read lol. reading is for squares 23:24:24 elliott: not yet 23:24:30 but I wasn't particularly enjoying my old job 23:24:54 are you telling me rewriting irc as a web app isn't exciting 23:24:58 we never would have guessed 23:24:58 ok i shouldn't be a jerk about this 23:24:58 there were a few things that were really annoying (like, one of my coworkers) and the rest of it was fine, but nothing super awesome to keep me going through the annoyances 23:24:59 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 23:25:02 haha 23:25:32 i sure hate $kmcs_coworker, they are the worst 23:25:49 if given the opportunity to work with someone you know is annoying because they might have changed: they haven't and you shouldn't 23:26:29 it sucks because i really liked the rest of the people 23:26:35 that was the main reason I was interested in working there 23:26:40 o well 23:26:41 what was the problem with this person? 23:26:44 just general annoyingness? 23:27:06 Bike: they were a bicycle 23:27:51 uh are you implying something 23:27:55 something... bikist 23:28:06 hmm, sounds like the annoying one should've been the one to leave rather than you 23:28:19 but that's their problem now :) 23:28:54 yeah 23:29:00 shrug 23:29:28 he's the annoying one but i'm the one who had trouble dealing with it, while he remained cheerful and productive through being annoying 23:30:54 kmc: come join me :D 23:30:57 Bike: if you have an association with the word "froshy" then it probably describes this person 23:31:25 someone who thinks they're hot shit because they were the smartest person around in high school, and who dropped out after one year of college at a mediocre school 23:31:36 >_< 23:31:37 and yet actually doesn't produce very good code 23:33:10 and communicates poorly 23:33:11 oh well 23:35:17 « "Did Discrimination Enhance Intelligence of Jews?". National Geographic News.» why did i google this <-- i've heard that theory before and it actually seemed plausible. 23:35:42 http://www.amazon.com/review/RN9XMF3CS1YPS nice 23:35:54 oerjan: it sounds very evopsychy 23:35:56 it certainly had a huge effect on cultural values, if not biology 23:36:30 oerjan, not hard to come up with a theory that seems plausible 23:37:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:42:02 Bike: well racism and eugenics aside (am i being stereotypical?) you wouldn't expect psychology to be _unaffected_ by evolution caused by selection. 23:43:11 of course not, but evolutionary psychology has a long history of being made-up racist shit, so i'm strongly inclined to dismiss it, unfortunately 23:43:13 but i guess there's still that nature/nurture questino. 23:43:19 *on 23:47:13 oerjan, that's all true but that doesn't mean 'property x is caused by evolutionary factor y' is actually /correct/ 23:47:33 yeah, presumably some evo psych theories are actually correct, but it's just way too easy to come up with one to justify whatever crazy bullshit you like 23:47:36 and way too hard to test them 23:48:03 -!- itsy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:48:19 the classic example is the assignent of pink to females; you can say it's because berries are red and hunter gatherers and all that, and it sounds plausible 23:48:33 except a century or so ago pink was a masculine colour and so it all goes to shit 23:48:51 yeah 23:49:13 oh if we're hating on evopsych now i want to mention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa 23:49:24 did you know you can actually be fired from psychology today? weird huh 23:49:27 Phantom_Hoover: actually the "pink was a masculine colour" is itself a myth hth 23:49:34 "Kanazawa has been very controversial, which he attributes to what he considers political correctness." 23:49:37 I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE 23:49:42 oerjan, IT'S MYTHS ALL THE WAY DOWN 23:49:55 guys why the lucky stiff updated his site again!!!!!! 23:49:56 NOTHING IS TRUE 23:50:00 EVERYTHING IS PERMITTED 23:50:02 http://www.gironda.org/pcl/SOLICIT.png 23:50:02 cite [5] there by other evolutionary psychologists (i.e. ones that aren't racists) is pretty great and worth a read 23:50:10 ^^^ very excellent 23:50:17 also he's into ocaml now??? http://www.scribd.com/doc/135658986/-why-Homework 23:50:19 WHY HATH RISEN ALL WILL BE UNMADE 23:50:24 (am i violating that list linked in the logs every time i say "actually"?) 23:50:24 MORE: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5541880 23:50:30 elliott: what is this 23:50:39 kmc: why the lucky stiff's website came back up a few months 23:50:42 as a public printer spool 23:50:46 http://whytheluckystiff.net/ 23:50:53 oh 23:50:56 its contents have been changing since 23:50:59 well they stopped 23:51:00 for months 23:51:04 but they changed a bit to start with 23:51:14 (last picture before these: http://www.scribd.com/doc/135635255/desolee) 23:52:29 `run echo -e '\x7fELF\x02\x01\x01\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\x02\0>\0\x01\0\0\0x\0@\0\0\0\0\0@\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\xc8\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0@\08\0\x01\0@\0\x03\0\x02\0\x01\0\0\0\x05\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0@\0\0\0\0\0\0\0@\0\0\0\0\0\xb6\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\xb6\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0 \0\0\0\0\0H\xc7\xc7\x01\0\0\0H\x8bt$\x10H\x85\xf6u\x0dH\xc7\xc6\xb4\0@\0H\x8dW\x01\xeb\x17H\x89\xf2\xeb\x03H\xff\xc2\x8a\x0a\x84\xc9u\xf7\xc6\x02\x0aH\xff\xc2H)\xf2H\x89\xf8\x0f\x05\xeb\xf9y\x0a' > b 23:52:32 No output. 23:52:43 `run chmod +x bin/y && y yyy 23:52:45 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 23:52:54 hacked by Jafet 23:53:09 this channel was so much better when cpressey was in it 23:53:09 -!- Jafet has left. 23:53:12 now nobody appreciates why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 23:53:13 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:53:27 4od doesn't have the armando ianucci shows ALL IS DARKNESS ALL IS DEATH 23:53:28 Hmm 23:53:34 `run echo 'const unsigned long main[] = { 0xc7e68948c7ffff31, 0x24310f00b195e206, 0xd231f88902460001, 0xe9eb050f03b2 };' > maze.c && gcc -nostdlib -o maze maze.c && ./maze 23:53:40 ​/usr/bin/ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 000000000040010c \ bash: line 1: 292 Segmentation fault ./maze 23:53:41 Phantom_Hoover: :( 23:53:46 `run mv bin/{y,yyy} && yyy 23:53:47 what's 4od 23:53:49 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 23:53:57 it's channel 4's on-demand thing 23:53:58 also Veep starts up again tomorrow 23:54:01 This machine must have different stack layout 23:54:09 `rm bin/yyy 23:54:10 Jafet: what does your thing do? 23:54:12 No output. 23:54:18 we have a different one for every channel because of socialism i guess 23:54:20 relevant cpressey on the github account the site is hosted on: https://github.com/cwales/cwales.github.com/issues/1 23:54:21 i would kill for hulu 23:54:23 `yes 23:54:24 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 23:54:26 HackEgo is User Mode Linux which is all crazy 23:54:41 Phantom_Hoover: you don't need to kill you just need to get a VPS with an american IP address 23:54:52 maybe EC2 is good enough, you can get a free EC2 instance for a year 23:54:55 Jafet: your initial command got cut off at the b 23:54:59 can i get that by killing someone 23:55:05 probably 23:55:16 `run mv b bin/y && chmod +x bin/y 23:55:18 they're also all on youtube anyway 23:55:19 No output. 23:55:23 god bless you kmtkmy 23:55:23 cool 23:55:24 `y yyy 23:55:26 yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yyy \ yy 23:56:24 `run which gccrun 23:56:26 No output. 23:56:41 `run curl -o bin/gccrun http://web.mit.edu/snippets/programming/gccrun && chmod +x bin/gccrun 23:56:45 No output. 23:56:58 `gccrun printf("Hello, world!\n"); 23:57:00 ​/hackenv/bin/gccrun: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `<' \ /hackenv/bin/gccrun: line 1: ` ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved