00:00:04 why not? if you have zero divisors you might as well have fun with it. 00:00:23 also: the number of m-by-n matrices with elements from a set with cardinality X is X^(m*n) 00:00:48 i.e. 1 when m or n is zero 00:03:32 (the coproduct's m+n as well, isn't it?) 00:04:01 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Quit: Ragequit). 00:04:15 Sounds reasonable. 00:04:22 Since 1=0 00:04:37 But I'll figure this out properly later. 00:04:55 so are initial and terminal objects meant to do interesting things around products 00:05:02 1 as in the terminal object, not the natural number 1. 00:05:14 Phantom_Hoover: Well, the empty product is the terminal object. 00:05:59 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:06:16 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:08:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:08:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:09:12 Phantom_Hoover: I think A*1=A? 00:09:40 right 00:09:59 Since in https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/CategoricalProduct-03.png , you get half the diagram trivially. 00:10:25 having fun? 00:10:49 copumpkin: I was doing something else and then Phantom_Hoover got me back into it! 00:10:59 good! 00:10:59 I bet he's your agent. Pumpkin_Hoover 00:11:05 copumpkin, it's m+n 00:11:11 now pay up 00:11:14 lol 00:11:28 describe all the moarphizmz 00:12:10 also, products or coproducts? 00:12:14 both 00:12:28 w00t 00:14:12 copumpkin: you should come to bayhac to talk about these things hth 00:14:18 lol 00:14:19 even conal will be there! 00:14:29 what about conor though 00:14:37 i guess he'll be in hexham before long 00:14:50 conor is "2 cool 4 bayhac" 00:14:53 :P 00:15:00 what other structure does that category have?!?!? 00:15:21 ohhhh no you're not fooling me there 00:15:24 I bet the answer is lots! 00:15:30 i know there are a billion structures in category theory 00:15:48 :P 00:19:06 monads 00:19:07 All categories have a identity monad and a identity monad, and all categories with final objects have Finalize monad for each final objects, and Initialize comonad for each initial objects. 00:19:10 what are monads in this category 00:19:34 what are adjunctions in this category hth 00:19:42 I listed two of them already. 00:19:54 http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/doxygen/trunk/h264__qpel__mmx_8c-source.html C: best macro assembler ever? 00:20:13 zzo38: A identity monad *and* a identity monad? 00:20:30 shachaf: I meant, a identity monad and a identity comonad. 00:20:36 kmc: that's gross 00:20:37 The second monad I mentioned is the Finalize monad. 00:20:39 zzo38: I think usually you say "an identity monad". 00:20:40 hth 00:21:30 So an endofunctor maps sizes to sizes and matrices to matrices and preserves composition and identity. 00:22:05 sounds exciting 00:22:14 It does? 00:22:19 I think functors are meant to be unexciting. 00:22:20 absolutely 00:23:16 What's a good endofunctor? 00:23:28 k 00:24:31 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:24:42 "Seriously. If you want to be a part of the Bitcoin revolution it's time to put on your grown up pants and switch to Linux." 00:25:46 theegan 00:26:04 time to use your MANLY PANTS and switch to os/2 00:26:31 oh shit 00:26:37 guess I'm not catching the bitcoin train :( 00:26:46 Windows is for shirt-cockers 00:27:11 what;s a shitcocker 00:27:15 shirt 00:27:17 what it sounds like 00:27:21 also, gross 00:27:31 MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1e75ju/12_yearolds_thoughts_on_buying_bitcoins/ 00:28:44 huh, nymphs have infinite carry capacity 00:28:58 i'm learning so many pointless things 00:29:24 Phantom_Hoover: perfect macro 00:29:54 "this is magic... 4% fee though... well, whatever" hardened investor here. 00:30:16 copumpkin: can you generalize a matrix to have real rather than natural dimensions................ 00:30:55 shachaf, as i said earlier, the set of x-by-y matrices over a field F is F^(x*y) 00:31:24 have fun defining multiplication like that though 00:31:35 imo someone else should have that fun hth 00:31:40 maybe you should start with negatives. 00:31:50 wait 00:31:51 RxR -> F 00:31:54 it's just integrals 00:32:05 I guess the main problem would be like, what kind of linear map is that? 00:32:13 i mean if you just do it over R 00:32:17 Do you need to operate on pi-dimensional space 00:32:24 let f,g : R^2 -> R 00:32:39 uh 00:33:10 let f : [0,a]x[0,b] -> R 00:33:24 let g : [0,b]x[0,c] -> R 00:35:23 g*f(x,y) = \int_0^b f(x,z)g(z,y)dz 00:37:42 i googled "bitinstant" and found second hit "Do not use BITINSTANT : Bitcoin - Reddit" 00:41:44 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bzo49/do_not_use_bitinstant/c9bodk8 00:41:47 i don't even 00:42:24 "a stack of -184549376 gold pieces" 00:43:13 reddit is a good place for customer service 00:43:25 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1dgq10/i_lost_all_my_bitcoins_with_satoshi_dice_mfw/ bitcoin promotes responsible financial habits in 12-year-olds 00:43:41 ahahaha 00:43:46 he was even using the martingale 00:46:04 Martingale Strategy... great way for Bankrupt .... 00:46:07 could not have put it better myself 00:46:25 in the simulator i found it's possible of 13 lose in one short .. (For 50%) 00:46:46 good simulator use 00:47:42 "losing 13 times in a row, i mean what are the chances" 00:48:07 my simulator says 0% 00:48:50 maybe i should fix it not to use these 16-bit floats........ 00:49:15 i like the guy who says to play a card game instead 00:49:51 Phantom_Hoover: that feels oddly categorical! 00:50:02 Phantom_Hoover: looks like an end or a coend or something 00:52:18 coënd 00:53:05 dïäërësïs 00:53:23 dïäërrhëä 00:53:50 diæresis 00:54:34 ŒƜ 00:57:13 Bike: well the suggestion is to play poker, right? 00:57:17 which is a legit game of skill 00:57:31 still pretty likely that a beginner will lose everything 00:57:55 Even when playing poker, don't play cash games; that is a sure way to get ruined. Play tournament style poker games it is better. 00:58:20 basically don't play games where it's you vs. the house 00:58:29 play games where it's you vs. idiots and the house just takes a cut 00:58:50 what do you do when you're one of the idiots 00:58:59 get smarter or stop playing 00:59:22 In a tournament game you cannot use more money than the entry fee, and everyone gets the same number of chips. 00:59:53 isn't the average player skill higher in tournaments? 01:04:10 It may be. 01:04:19 But different tournament cost different amount of money. 01:13:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:17:42 Fun fact: David Bowie has/had a presence in Worlds 01:18:03 Actually, the 'hand garden' is in Bowieworld 01:23:46 kmc: the post basically said "if you're going to lose your money at least have fun" yeah 01:24:08 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:24:13 Bike: Yes, and don't spend more money than you should spend ordinarily for entertainment anyways. 01:24:23 If you manage to win, that is a bonus. 01:26:02 zzo38: what are your favorite poker games, and have you invented any new ones? 01:26:32 I don't play poker much, but I know Texas Hold'em, and I have thought about new kinds too. 01:26:40 mnoqy mnoqy mnoqy, hi mnoqy 01:27:54 hi 01:28:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:40:47 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 01:40:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:43:25 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:43:32 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 01:43:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:45:24 -!- Bike has joined. 01:53:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:54:43 -!- Bike has joined. 02:26:07 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 02:26:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:27:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:28:58 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:33:09 -!- augur has joined. 02:36:09 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:37:40 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:37:43 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:39:16 Does the nethack turn by turn thing end at 823? :( 02:39:23 -!- Tritonio__ has joined. 02:39:37 zzo38: which new kinds? 02:39:51 hold 'em is very popular, I think it has a good balance between randomness, objective skill, and psychology 02:40:25 kmc: Yes, I know of such thing like that, I think it is, too. 02:40:44 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:41:03 kmc: I was thinking of poker game with tarot cards, Pokemon cards, and ones that use standard cards but with trading as well, and with chess, etc 02:41:12 Eleusis seems like this channel's kind of card game. 02:41:15 holdM_ is the version where you discard unused cards, right? 02:41:17 Either that or the one you can't talk about. 02:41:28 shachaf: ꙮ_ꙮ 02:41:28 hold 'em is where you have a shared pool of cards. 02:41:40 You share 5 cards and 2 card are only your own cards. 02:41:52 i realize that that was probably a pun, but fuck off 02:42:06 and there are successive betting rounds with 0, 3, 4, 5 public cards 02:42:32 -!- augur_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:42:32 -!- Tritonio__ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:42:53 Yes and then you make your best 5 cards of the 7 available to you. If you have a royal flush, nobody else can; unlike in draw poker, in this game only one player can have a royal flush. 02:43:08 that's true 02:43:34 ꙮꙮ 02:43:34 ꙮꙮꙮꙮ 02:43:35 ꙮꙮ 02:44:18 also your best hand could be just the five public cards, in which case your private hands don't matter (even to break ties) 02:44:56 one problem with hold 'em is that good play involves folding most hands immediately, which is borng 02:45:02 i don't know if other poker variants solve this problem 02:45:05 Yes, although if your best hand is the five public cards, then you will at most tie. 02:45:08 my best hand is ✌ 02:46:28 1F64B HAPPY PERSON RAISING ONE HAND [] 02:47:01 -!- Vorpal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:47:02 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:47:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (*.net *.split). 02:47:02 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 02:47:50 -!- Tritonio__ has joined. 02:47:51 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:47:59 -!- Vorpal has joined. 02:50:08 http://e.thumbs.redditmedia.com/9yFP31Q8OYauTsXL.png 02:50:19 Found in /r/lounge CSS 02:51:15 dude like what are you doing like lounging man 02:51:17 ok. 02:51:20 -!- augur_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:51:20 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 02:51:20 -!- Tritonio__ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:52:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:52:40 -!- Vorpal has joined. 02:52:40 -!- Tritonio__ has joined. 02:52:40 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:53:45 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 02:53:45 -!- Vorpal has joined. 02:56:12 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 03:45:03 entertain me 03:45:37 Write out hofstadter's q sequence on paper, then make a hat out of it 03:45:49 kmc: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/The_Entertainer_-_Scott_Joplin.ogg 03:45:50 Let mee entertain you / Let me make you smile / Let me do a few tricks / Some old and then some new tricks / I'm very versatile 03:45:57 s/ee/e/ 03:46:01 zzo38: good response 03:46:06 That's been happening a lot to me lately. 03:46:20 Something's wrong with my keyboard and/or finger and/or brain 03:46:40 and/or irc client and/or mosh and/or screen (why am i still using screen i should have switched to mosh when my server restarted i forgot help) 03:46:48 and/or eyes 03:46:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 03:46:56 switched to tmux you mean or? 03:47:09 tmux is still actively developed so you know it's good 03:47:14 i mean tmux 03:47:16 because nothing makes software good like people actively fucking with it 03:47:20 kmc, why am I awake 03:47:48 i used to play piano 03:47:50 no longer 03:48:11 kmc: Should I learn to play piano? 03:48:17 How about another musical instrument? 03:48:47 shrug 03:48:59 How about the... 03:49:02 CHROMATIC BUTTON ACCORDION? 03:49:06 yikes 03:49:16 you should learn to play the ondes Martenot 03:49:31 kmc: What's the probability of you moving to SF this year? 03:49:43 Accordions own. Learn to play that. 03:49:50 They're kind of expensive though ("unlike pianos") 03:49:59 Bike: Only chromatic button accordions hth 03:50:01 you can get a free bad piano 03:50:03 Piano accordions are the devil. 03:50:08 just by paying the cost to haul it away 03:50:24 shachaf: i'm going to say 90% 03:50:33 That's a lot! 03:50:36 my girlfriend and I are both pretty sure it's what we want to do 03:50:46 -!- yonkie has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:50:49 it's contingent on me getting a job in the SF area, but I expect I can do that 03:51:08 it is pretty likely that I will be living in SF by September (because that's when my lease here ends) 03:51:55 where are you presently/ 03:52:04 Cambridge, MA 03:52:10 Mid-Cambridge, MA 03:52:14 ;_; 03:52:19 Who knows, by 2017 I may be in the SF area 03:52:21 gradumating soon? 03:52:25 no I'm old 03:52:29 oh 03:52:35 Probably not 03:52:35 "old" 03:52:39 2019 maybe 03:52:42 well, 25, but I graduated when I was 20 03:52:42 old in elliott years 03:52:45 so i feel old :( 03:52:48 but it's not all bad! 03:52:54 I'm way older 03:52:57 I haven't graduated and I feel old. :-( 03:53:06 you graduated at 20? well now i feel incompetent 03:53:22 04:12:31 oh kmc is younger than I thought he was 03:53:22 04:12:38 heh how old do i seem 03:53:22 04:12:52 I assumed you were around my age 03:53:22 04:13:12 ah, i don't perceive much of a gap between 21 and 25. maybe i will when i'm 25 03:53:32 my gf is in med school (4th year) and one of her classmates is 20 03:53:35 hah 03:53:39 Bike: maybe this is a humblebrag or something, but skipping grades in middle school wasn't a big deal 03:53:44 Well, med students are freaks anyway. 03:53:47 kmc: oh. 03:53:50 the classes still move at the same pace, and each year is 80% recap of the previous year anyway 03:53:59 copumpkin: wow 03:54:07 I could have entered university earlier; am glad I did not 03:54:21 Yeah, I skipped two years of math classes, mostly meant i had an annoying schedule 03:54:28 I was never good enough at English to skip a year 03:54:54 we had a magnet school, but it was only half day 03:55:01 so i spent a *lot* of time on school buses 03:55:06 Could have probably skipped a year in maths or science if the school system would allow it 03:55:12 going back and forth between there and my regular public school 03:55:24 magnet school? 03:55:33 Hm, I think the nearest magnet school is the one named after HeLa. That's kinda cool. 03:55:41 coppro: School for nerds 03:55:48 uh, in the US, specifically 03:55:48 ah 03:55:51 shachaf: seriously, learn to play the ondes Martenot 03:55:54 * coppro wonders why that terminology 03:55:55 and join a Radiohead cover band 03:56:08 Doesn't Radiohead have drums? 03:56:11 I assume they do. 03:56:13 coppro: because they get sudents from a wider area than usual schools. 03:56:15 coppro: because they pull in gifted students from around the area 03:56:20 shachaf: oh, I forgot you hate drums :( 03:56:45 kmc: The other day I got really annoyed at the person sitting next to me on the airplane for having music with drums playing in their earphones. 03:56:45 ah 03:56:45 You could join an arhythmic radiohead cover band. 03:56:57 they do have some ambient-ish tracks 03:57:02 * coppro went to the Canadian equivalent 03:57:04 not really enough for a whole bandi 03:57:06 band 03:57:06 It escaped the earphones but just barely -- it wasn't particularly loud compared to the noise of the engine. 03:57:17 Shachaf should just join a Paul Lansky cover band. 03:57:19 But it bothered me much more than any other noise. 03:57:24 Pretty much the same as radiohead 03:58:12 Spinal Tap Drummer Dies From Arrhythmia 03:58:28 ~_~ 03:58:34 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 03:58:42 Bike: Music has rhythm even without bands! 03:58:52 kmc: I mind drums in a song a bit less when I'm already familiar with it. 03:59:09 do you count any kind of percussion as bad? 03:59:11 So the backdoor to get me to listen to a song with drums in it is to make sure I'm familiar with it somehow. 03:59:12 It's slightly possible I'm being silly. 03:59:13 or must it be drums 03:59:16 What's "any kind of percussion"? 03:59:18 Piano is fine. 03:59:25 cymbal solo!!! 03:59:28 Things that go boom-boom-boom-boom aren't. 03:59:29 I mean things like cymbals or snares 03:59:42 become a concert percussionist 03:59:42 Um, it depends? 03:59:51 What I don't like is the thing that Bike referred to as a "beat". 03:59:54 your goal in life should be to play the bass drum in Verdi's Requiem 04:00:15 sounds like you'd like sigur ros then :P 04:00:27 meh 04:00:28 although they do have some percussion 04:00:48 Basinski! 04:00:49 Other things I don't like: velvet, carbonated beverages 04:00:53 I'm just going to keep naming weirdos. 04:01:46 although one of my favorite songs of theirs goes kind of crazy with the beat near the end 04:01:48 so perhaps not 04:02:01 Haha, Pitchfork gave the loops 9.4/10 04:02:21 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwDHBqFedFg) 04:03:08 it seems like avoiding percussion cuts out most recent music 04:03:18 It does. 04:03:20 hth 04:03:34 and also epic orchestral music 04:03:35 Popcorn 04:03:35 ? 04:03:44 Not all uses of drums are bad. 04:03:46 the massive drum of the dies irae in verdi's requiem 04:03:48 oh okay 04:03:51 here, let me get you a massive drum 04:03:52 copumpkin: YES THAT 04:03:58 THAT IS THE THING I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER 04:04:03 what 04:04:14 Bike: listen to the dies irae! 04:04:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW1Uc-grcMs 04:04:17 it has drums! 04:04:35 0:15 04:04:38 It's just, y'know, 04:04:45 far away from the boom boom boom of the drummer / it was midsummer / what a bummer / clementine 04:04:47 it's even better when he brings that theme back near the end 04:04:50 yeah 04:04:52 this is what, 19th century? 04:05:02 yeah 04:05:04 copumpkin: I got to see it live a week ago 04:05:06 Oh, those are certainly drums. I don't think that's the "beat" shachaf doesn't like, though? 04:05:07 awesome 04:05:09 it was spectacular 04:05:13 it's a mind-blowing piece of music 04:05:18 I mean, they're pretty sparse. 04:05:21 Bike: "beat" was your word! Don't you dare quote me on it! 04:05:29 I was quoting myself. 04:05:47 Only rude people and shachaf quote themselves. 04:05:54 the rex tremendae is awesome, as is the entire libera me at the end 04:05:55 So there's no issue. 04:05:55 And monochrom. 04:06:06 fuck it, the whole thing is awesome 04:06:10 Anyway the 19th century was bigger on drums than earlier periods, I thought. 04:06:27 I mean if you have a mandolin concerto or whatever. Not a lot of drumming going on there. 04:06:31 copumpkin: I was in the very back of the theatre and could still feel the bass drum when he did the giant two-mallet beat 04:06:53 copumpkin: Are you going to followeegan to SF? 04:07:05 here, have leontyne: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nQbDQe12JA 04:07:21 and a much younger pavarotti etc. 04:08:02 does shachaf like bach? 04:08:11 bachaf 04:08:13 bachaf 04:08:15 lol 04:08:19 I never met him. 04:08:31 imo his music's p. good tho hth 04:08:49 salva me fons pietatis 04:09:09 idly wondering if you'd like the crazy piano guy's version of the musical offering less, since he's really pointy with the keys 04:09:13 Should I go see _Arcadia_? 04:09:18 shachaf: no I'm not 04:09:21 Bike: I don't mind key pointiness. 04:09:26 (followeeganing) 04:09:38 followineegang 04:11:02 here, no drums anywhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KpYUaRg0aDw#t=830s 04:13:55 (that's one of my favorite pieces ever, btw) 04:17:19 * copumpkin kills conversation again 04:17:35 I hope you're all just too flabbergasted by that amazing piece to IRC anymore 04:17:48 I was listening to it. 04:17:50 Am? 04:19:09 yay 04:20:06 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/22/nanny-rich-british-russian-200k_n_933141.html?utm_hp_ref=50&ir=50 04:22:37 copumpkin: how many nannies do you employ 04:22:58 one for each of my dogs 04:23:34 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:24:07 -!- augur has joined. 04:24:40 they need individual attention 04:31:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:47:29 copumpkin: That totally has drums or drumalikes. :-( 04:47:55 The Rós thing. 04:48:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:49:52 copumpkin: hey should i read any russian novels hth 04:50:00 no hth 04:50:19 Yeah, just read short stories. 04:50:23 Get some roadside picnics going. 04:50:23 why not hth 04:50:46 you could read asimov? I think he's russian 04:50:53 well, briefly. 04:51:05 Different literary tradition. 04:51:10 read the idiot hth 04:51:33 why the idiot hth 04:51:35 also which translation 04:51:54 the one into english perhaps? 04:51:56 clearly you should read demons. get yo hate on 04:52:13 I feel sorry for translators. They get no respect. 04:52:30 Bike: You mean from people like olsner? 04:52:41 yeah. 04:52:48 though maybe he's kidding or whatever, who knows. 04:54:07 hmm, actually I don't respect translators (not entirely decided as to whether I should or not but leaning towards "shouldn't") 04:54:26 they're a poor workaround for me not knowing all languages 04:55:37 ok. 04:55:39 What of the universal translator? :P 04:58:43 I'm still just stuck thinking of how bad Verne's translations were, I guess. 04:58:56 Which? 04:59:19 I read a lot of Verne in Hebrew. 04:59:41 hofstadter wrote that book about translation 04:59:42 The early ones into English. They were almost all basically terrible, and they kept on being terrible and republished for so long that he has a way different reputation in the anglophone world than he does everywhere else. 04:59:58 Which is sad. 05:00:21 I liked that book, but I'm a monoglot so I probably know nothing about anything. 05:00:25 I read most Verne that I've read in Hebrew. 05:00:34 I think. 05:00:42 Later I reread some in English. 05:00:42 that's a bit surprising, I'd assume the number of english speakers would generally make translations into english better than other translations 05:00:47 _The Mysterious Island_ is good. 05:01:06 olsner: They still sold well, because they were translated as pulp. 05:01:52 But I mean, it's weird to reconcile the crud that made it into that League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie with a guy who inspired Perec. 05:12:45 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:14:11 -!- augur has joined. 05:18:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:25:47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Musicians_by_band 05:25:56 This category contains only the following page. This list may not reflect recent changes (learn more). 05:25:59 F 05:26:02 User talk:FLASHBUDDHAI THE BASS-KONG 05:27:47 I am all kinds of ready to talk about FLASHBUDDHAI THE BASS-KONG. 05:29:54 -!- augur has joined. 06:15:49 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 06:16:55 http://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/SensorManager.html#GRAVITY_DEATH_STAR_I oh Android, you and your APIs. 06:19:10 wow, pretty low, huh. 06:19:22 wow a star wars reference, take that corporate suits 06:19:32 There is also GRAVITY_THE_ISLAND, "Gravity on the island". 06:19:39 is that a Lost reference or what 06:19:57 It has the Lost numbers in it, so probably. 06:20:24 (It's 4.815162 somethings; unlike all other GRAVITY_FOO constants, the units are not documented.) 06:34:56 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:36:03 kmc: my friend wrote this article, how do i argue with them http://blog.sosonkin.com/2013/05/then-i-finally-understood-monads.html 06:36:09 (note: not actually my friend) 06:36:15 more like a frenemy? 06:36:23 "more like a stranger" 06:36:44 not my friend. more like my bicycle 06:36:54 i.e. way north in washington and rusting 06:37:06 we were just outside of barstow when I finally understood monads 06:37:35 the joke is that my bicycle is in washington and rusting 06:37:35 Well, there are several problems with it. 06:37:40 and Bike is also in washington 06:37:45 and Bike is a common abbreviation for bicycle 06:38:13 huh i'm getting some alternate openings when i google that kmcism 06:38:18 One (minor) problem is adding extra parentheses, but this isn't really a problem, since it would still work like that. 06:38:28 fear and loahting in textual criticism 06:39:06 They say they are to indicate the three monads, but the third thing surrounded is a function! 06:40:15 So, in other words, putStr whatever is making the IO action (IO monad type), not the monad itself. 06:40:22 Furthermore, maybe putStrLn might be better here. 06:40:54 the true monad is not the monad that can be spoken of 06:41:03 that's probably not true for monadology actually, huh. 06:41:08 At least the article explains how it is used; this much makes some sense. 06:41:15 the monad that can be monaded is not the true monad 06:41:23 monade* 06:41:35 ☝REFERENCE TO BAD TRANSLATIONS OF THE TAO TE CHING☝ 06:41:37 The stuff about philosophy isn't really applicable much. 06:41:44 "the word for speaking of is the same as the word for tao or something" 06:41:58 are there good translations of the tao te ching 06:42:11 i like the excerps in raymond smullyan books 06:42:12 t 06:42:19 you would 06:42:28 he's a real excpert in the tao te ching 06:42:34 At least it explains how to use the IO monad; it doesn't really explain it except how the IO monad works, but it does at least explain things which do "are the connectors or the glue that keeps these monad particles together to form a composite substance" is a way to explain the IO monad. 06:42:53 That is how to argue of it, isn't it? 06:42:57 it is. 06:43:04 ☝ IM WITH SACHAF ☝ 06:43:51 kmc: ☛ On the choice of Unicode characters? ☚ 06:44:21 _How to Argue of It_, by George Pólya 06:44:50 That made me spit. Now my furniture is all wet. 06:51:19 Bike: You should know better than to drink while IRCing with the Almighty Funpuns! 06:51:29 Indeed I should, but I don't. 06:52:46 idgi 06:53:01 there isn't much i to g 06:54:00 I don't know why it made me laugh that hard. Maybe polya is just inherently amusing 06:55:09 kmc: There's a book by George Pólya called _How to Solve It_. It's famous, I think? 06:55:35 The joke was taking zzo38's sentence fragment and casting it in that light. Putting it in the mental context reserved for the title of that book. 06:55:46 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:57:11 ^rot13 Almighty 06:57:11 Nyzvtugl 06:57:22 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:57:39 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 07:01:48 all right 07:01:56 Excerpt: expert expects express, except exerts excess excrete. 07:15:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:18:08 -!- jconn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:18:49 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 07:19:01 -!- jconn has joined. 07:32:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:40:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:41:27 How do you write "I will eat you" in Latin? 07:42:14 https://translate.google.com/#en/la/I%20will%20eat%20you. hth 07:48:02 kmc: Oh boy, fruitFly. 07:48:20 Have fun with that. 07:48:29 oh who/what is fruitFly 07:51:10 am i in for a, 'fun surprise' 07:52:40 are Matasano problems the new Project Euler 07:52:47 A person who's been banned from #haskell multiple times. 07:52:54 Admittedly mostly by elliott. 07:53:05 But anyway you can make up your own mind about them. 07:53:57 okay 07:54:02 resisting urge to logread 07:55:17 http://slbkbs.org/fru.txt hth 07:56:28 https://translate.google.com/#la/en/We%20eat%20the%20Gauls is apparently valid latin 07:56:55 shachaf: your server doesn't tell me what the charset is :'( 07:57:01 oh no :'( 07:57:10 kmc: it's ANSI hth 07:57:23 ok i feel dirty i take that back 07:58:22 ḧigh ascii 07:58:55 kmc: I tried to rub those dots off my screen 07:59:54 heh 07:59:58 they are there by accident 08:00:29 Oh, that's not a combining character. 08:00:38 ḧ is actually a codepoint. 08:00:51 I tried to rub it off again 08:00:59 I probably should clean this screen 08:01:00 ḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧḧ 08:01:49 Stanisław Lem 08:01:54 Stanisław Łem 08:03:34 Even so, I'd say that it's worth raising awareness of it. Haskell's identification of inductive data with coinductive data, however well motivated, has allowed people to be lazy. People aren't so likely to be thinking "do I mean inductive or coinductive here?", "is this function productive?" etc. The usual style is to write as if everything is inductive, and if it still works on infinite data, to pat ourselves on the back for using Haskell ... 08:03:40 ... rather than ML. I'm certainly guilty of that. 08:04:21 Stan̈ısław 08:04:40 Šţāŋĭs̷ła⃫w⃥. 08:07:05 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:07:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:10:29 Ŝťāņɨṣŀåⱳ 08:11:24 `run ls bin/*alg* 08:11:28 bin/zalgo \ bin/zalgoerjan 08:11:30 `run echo Stanislaw | bin/zalgo 08:11:32 S̆tͨa͡n͘i̒s͉l̽ảw̖ \ ͨ 08:11:43 `run echo Stanislaw | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo 08:11:45 S̶̡̟͇̠͉̯̻̝͔͇̥̪͓̩̣̹͙͈̄͂ͣ̈́̀́ͥ̆͑̋ͩ̽t͍͏̷̨̰̤̣̮̫̻͕̹͈͈̙͙̘̼͎͖ͮ̿̓̈́̃̀̋̑ͣͦ͡a̸̴̖̳̯̘̣͖͔̰̮̥̺̝̻͇̅̏̔́͑ͭͣͣ́̐͛̉́̚͠n̷̵̷̰̬̻͔̼̝̩̬̏̓́͂ͯͮ͑ͩ̆͋͐̈ͮ̓ͤ̚͢͝͡͝į̶̸̷̵̧̡̞̘̝͚̦̖͙̰̳̜̓̃ͬ̉ͭ͋̓̌̾̋̃ͩ̆͡s̨̡̯̩̲̤͓̤͍͚̞̅̏̾̚͟͟ 08:11:48 um 08:12:48 we heard you like combining characters 08:12:58 That broke my terminal. 08:13:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:14:24 It broke Bike's IRC client. 08:14:54 `run echo Zalgo | (cat>tmp;for i in `seq 1 10`;do zalgo tmp1;mv tmp1 tmp;done;cat tmp) 08:15:04 Z̵̢̢̧̧̢̨̨̨̛̠̖͍̥̞̫̞̱̮͇̫̟̺̝̼̦̹̭͖̟̘̯̯̰̥̻͕̩͉̜̬̼̬̣̰̮̩̹̋̃̔ͬ̾̿̃ͣ̎͌ͬ̿ͪ̆̆̅̉ͪ͋̆͒̌̀ͦ̀̒̀͂͂̐ͫ͋̓̇͋̅́ͦ̍́̽̾̌̇͐͊̓̆ͨ̒ͦ́ͧͦ͑̐͘̕̕͜͠͡͞͠ͅͅ͏̵̸̛̖͈̣̰͉̲̼͇̤̜̼̻̹̩̞̯̜̠͈̟͉̱ͥ̌́̌ͣ͑̂̑ͯ̂͆̂ͯ͒ͧͭͦ̿̎̈ͨ̐ͣͮͩ́̿ͬ̚͜͟͝͞͞ 08:15:21 help 08:18:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:20:21 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:23:21 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:23:21 -!- glogbot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:23:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:23:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:23:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:23:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:24:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:24:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:24:53 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:24:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:24:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:25:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:25:51 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:25:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:26:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:26:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:26:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:27:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:27:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:27:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:28:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:28:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:28:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:28:56 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:29:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:29:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:29:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:29:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:29:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:30:22 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:30:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:30:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:30:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:30:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:30:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:31:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:31:51 -!- glogbot has joined. 08:31:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:31:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:35:17 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:54:17 -!- ggherdov_ has changed nick to ggherdov. 09:02:26 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:03:29 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 09:14:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_non-invasion_of_Poland 09:25:29 -!- btiffin has joined. 09:30:19 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 09:31:01 -!- btiffin has left. 09:32:08 -!- Tritonio__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:35:30 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:48:47 -!- aloril has joined. 09:49:13 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 09:50:33 def fib(n): return round( pow(1.618033988749895,n) / 2.23606797749979) 09:51:12 floating-point numbers make for the best Fibonacci algorithms 09:52:18 >>> fib(69) + fib(70), fib(71) 09:52:18 (308061521170129.0, 308061521170130.0) 09:52:19 FAIL 09:53:26 yeah, but the guy who used signed integers only made it to 2147483648 anyway. 09:54:02 so what's the shortest closed form for fib using only integer math 09:57:23 ,[->>[>]+[<]< ]>+>[-<<[->+> +<<]>>>]<.<.- perhaps 09:57:52 i didn't write that though, do we have a bf interpreter here to test it with? 09:58:07 !bf ,[->>[>]+[<]< ]>+>[-<<[->+> +<<]>>>]<.<.- 09:58:09 ​. 09:58:38 9 09:58:55 ... is he prompting for input or something? 09:59:55 !bf ++++++++++++++++++[->>[>]+[<]< ]>+>[-<<[->+> +<<]>>>]<.<.- 09:59:55 ​=. 10:05:43 ^fib 10:05:43 0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55.89.144.233.377.610.987.1597.2584.4181.6765.10946.17711.28657.46368.75025.121393.196418.317811.514229.832040.1346269.2178309.3524578.5702887.9227465.14930352.24157817.39088169.632459 ... 10:05:45 ^show fib 10:05:45 >+10>+>+[[+5[>+8<-]>.<+6[>-8<-]+<3]>.>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<2+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<3-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<3][] 10:05:58 (That's not "shortest", it's just there.) 10:09:36 ]]]]]]]]]]] 10:10:04 It's mostly about the decimal output. 10:10:18 The snippetshown above opts not to do that. 10:10:39 ^bf ,[->>[>]+[<]< ]>+>[-<<[->+> +<<]>>>]<.<.-! 10:10:39 7Y 10:10:41 ^ord 7Y 10:10:42 55 89 10:10:49 It's the right numbers all right. 10:11:35 ^bf ,[->>[>]+[<]< ]>+>[-<<[->+> +<<]>>>]<.<.-!0 10:11:35 @ 10:12:06 what is a good strategy to compress BF code? 10:12:29 (besides from RLE of course) 10:13:31 klmgrv 10:20:21 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:21:55 -!- jconn has joined. 10:32:37 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:36:48 lifthrasiir, well. 10:36:59 You can get a constant 1/2 size reduction with any program... 10:53:45 -!- jconn has joined. 10:56:35 `olist 10:56:37 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 11:00:21 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:02:45 Hey, someone has renamed the latest generation of workstations at the CS building classroom after esolangs: http://www.niksula.hut.fi/maps 11:03:55 Maybe not "renamed", I suppose those are likely to be their first names, but anyway. 11:12:11 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:12:12 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:12:13 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:13:00 -!- aloril has joined. 11:13:27 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 11:14:14 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:14:41 hello? 11:15:17 !ping 11:15:20 Pong! 11:15:29 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Client Quit). 11:16:14 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 11:16:32 !ping 11:16:34 Pong! 11:16:53 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:17:00 `relcome Snowyowl 11:17:03 ​Snowyowl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 11:17:16 Can someone read this message? My client is being weird today, and I'm not sure if I'm actually connected to anything. 11:18:19 fungot, can you read it? 11:18:19 Jafet: really? what's your definition of " partition" couldn't be further normalized, even though people in general. 11:21:26 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:21:31 -!- comex` has quit (*.net *.split). 11:21:32 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 11:21:32 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 11:21:32 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 11:21:33 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 11:25:21 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 11:25:21 -!- comex` has joined. 11:25:21 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:25:21 -!- ion has joined. 11:25:21 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 11:25:51 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 11:26:14 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:30:14 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 11:40:02 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 11:47:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:52:06 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:55:04 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:00:03 we need a bot that makes sarcastic comments after a netsplit 12:00:17 well, not "need" exactly, but it would be nice to have 12:04:12 fungot: Couldn't you do that? You're good at sarcasm. 12:04:13 fizzie: true ( lambda () proc) will evalute to ( lambda ( args...), treat it as a parameter to the procedure 12:04:29 fungot: Okay, you're *sometimes* good at it. 12:04:29 fizzie: give it a fnord game?) value. 12:04:36 fungot: I give up. 12:04:36 fizzie: did his palm pilot 12:04:48 "That's what his palm pilot said." 12:07:18 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 12:14:59 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:16:09 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:16:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:16:15 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:16:35 -!- HackEgo has joined. 12:17:02 Is anyone here doing this Underhanded C Contest thing in the topic? 12:17:39 I bet kmc is 12:20:42 he's so underhanded, after all 12:26:02 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 12:26:54 The underfunded C contest. 12:27:55 not like the ioccc, whoring itself out to corporate interests 12:33:21 -!- jconn has joined. 12:43:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:44:42 Phantom__Hoover: ? 12:47:02 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 12:47:48 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 12:49:29 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 12:49:33 -!- Jafet has set topic: The channel which splits off off on-off on-topic discussion | we can all be terrible together | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 12:49:36 coppro, it's called patter hth 12:50:32 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 12:50:33 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 12:50:36 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 12:50:39 -!- abumirqaan has quit (*.net *.split). 12:50:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (*.net *.split). 12:50:41 -!- pikhq_ has quit (*.net *.split). 12:50:41 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 12:51:10 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:51:30 -!- HackEgo has joined. 12:53:06 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 12:57:40 Snowyowl: I probably will, since I just got a brilliantly evil idea in the shower 12:58:42 did you now? 13:02:09 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:25:00 -!- Koen_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:25:43 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 13:26:00 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:27:11 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 13:27:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:27:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:27:55 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:28:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:28:38 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:28:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:29:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:29:25 -!- glogbot has joined. 13:29:25 [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! 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15:38:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:39:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:45:57 > (- 1) 15:46:02 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:46:02 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:46:10 > (- 1) 15:46:15 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:46:16 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:46:24 wtf 15:46:29 > -1 15:46:35 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:46:35 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:46:39 > 1 15:46:40 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:46:44 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:46:44 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:46:53 ~eval (- 1) 15:46:54 Error (1): 15:46:55 ~eval (- 1) 15:46:55 Error (1): 15:46:58 ok houston we have a problem 15:47:02 ~eval -1 15:47:03 Error (1): 15:47:07 > -1 :: Integer 15:47:13 -1 15:47:18 ~eval -1 :: Integer 15:47:18 Error (1): 15:47:21 darn. 15:47:29 > -1 :: () 15:47:34 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:47:34 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:47:38 aha 15:48:05 someone added another insane instance, which messes up all intuitive defaulting as well 15:48:24 I go to another tab for five minutes and you guys get lisp all over my chat history. 15:48:41 Snowyowl: that's haskell hth 15:48:53 er, yeah 15:48:59 they're the same. 15:49:02 hth? 15:49:10 `? hth 15:49:12 hth here there be hambiguity 15:49:26 so not "how the hell", then, good to know. 15:49:40 i may not have personally added that definition hth 15:49:57 oerjan: uh, no 15:49:58 > () 15:49:59 I think it was my fault. 15:50:01 it is just broken 15:50:04 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:50:04 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:50:14 oops 15:50:15 ~eval () :: () 15:50:15 Error (1): 15:50:26 that _would_ be a very insane instance, admittedly. 15:50:31 elliott: hth did you do that hth 15:50:48 Snowyowl: i am adding your interpretation to my repertoire hth 15:51:36 > x 15:51:40 x 15:51:51 x 15:51:56 only the () type? 15:51:57 -!- tswett_ has changed nick to tswett. 15:52:21 oh wait 15:52:37 *boily: hth did you do that hth 15:52:47 mistheread 15:53:22 > Just (1 :: Integer) 15:53:27 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:53:27 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:53:35 huh 15:53:41 oerjan: about adding the `? for hth hth 15:53:46 > Just 1 :: Maybe Integer 15:53:48 boily: ah 15:53:51 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:53:51 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:54:03 maybe also borken... 15:54:07 > x 15:54:12 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:54:12 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:54:14 *Maybe 15:54:39 oh it's a heisenbug 15:54:45 > 1 :: Integer 15:54:50 mueval: ExitFailure 1 15:54:51 mueval: Prelude.undefined 15:54:59 very well (or bad) then 15:58:01 -!- sivoais_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:58:38 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:59:29 * kmc is learning the moves for rotating the centers of a Rubik's cube <-- is that something zen-like... 16:00:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:00:48 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:00:56 oerjan: someday, I'll get a rubik's bonsai. 16:00:58 logroerjan 16:01:35 ok that picture rationale makes it make sense 16:02:53 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:09:44 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:11:17 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:14:29 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:15:09 -!- variable has joined. 16:15:11 -!- jconn has joined. 16:15:38 huh 16:15:51 apparently wallander is about a swedish detective who fails in everything he does 16:15:58 why have i not been watching this 16:16:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:17:58 i wonder if it's actually just m times n <-- the category of matrices is isomorphic to a subset of the category of linear transformations, a special case of module category, from which you get that both categorical product and sum ar m plus n iirc. 16:18:03 *are 16:18:22 Did you forget to "hth" that? 16:18:36 It looks like such a hth comment. 16:18:49 because they're the direct sums of modules in the larger category. 16:18:55 fizzie: maybe hth 16:19:00 oerjan, well joke's on you because i GUESSED 16:19:12 Phantom__Hoover: oh NOOOOOOOOO 16:20:13 i don't think that you can take it 16:20:30 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:20:34 i'm mad as hell and i cannot take it any more, hth 16:21:16 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:21:25 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:21:36 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:25:32 did you know: you can exponentiate by matrices <-- that's essentially how you get time evolution in quantum mechanics hth 16:26:20 fuck quantum mechanics 16:28:03 the time evolution unitary operator is essentially the exponential of t*the energy operator. or thereabouts. 16:28:20 -!- Bike has joined. 16:29:12 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:29:32 ooh list 16:29:45 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:30:13 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 16:34:45 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:35:47 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:38:04 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:41:31 -!- Vorpal has joined. 16:41:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:42:16 Vorpal: hi! 16:42:41 e9f5bd2bae1c70770ff8c6e6cf2d7b76 16:43:09 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:44:22 ThatOtherPerson: crackstation.net can't find a match. 16:44:27 dude like what are you doing like lounging man <-- Sgeo literally _is_ the reddit Gold, hth. 16:44:36 boily: seriously? 16:45:01 also that website is blocked in Saudi Arabia 16:45:09 or at least here 16:45:17 oerjan: I guess the point of this `o was the "happy ending" oracleprophecy? 16:45:50 ThatOtherPerson: whatever you have hashed, there ain't no password related to it. (probably) (hth) (and another hth, just to be sure) 16:45:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:46:29 boily: btw, Google is one of the best MD5 hash crackers hth 16:46:46 shachaf: oh that might be. that necromancer girl was already quite seriously dead last i heard of her, so it seems unlikely (but of course in D&D not entirely impossible) that they would fight her again... 16:47:10 oerjan: Well, this is all presumably a hallucination due to the runes. 16:47:25 -!- coppro_ has joined. 16:47:38 indeed. although it _could_ have been prophetic itself... 16:47:47 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 16:48:08 As someone pointed out the eyepatch is on the wrong eye too, etc. Presumably they're all making this up in their head based on information they know. 16:48:14 heh 16:48:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:48:47 who, like, knows, man 16:48:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 16:48:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:48:54 -!- coppro has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 16:49:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:49:11 -!- ion has quit (Excess Flood). 16:49:59 -!- ion has joined. 16:50:49 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:01:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:05:59 shachaf: did copumpkin ever answer the "(co)products in the category of matrices" "riddle" 17:06:40 i answered it! 17:06:41 i've been passivly wondering about it all day but i don't even know what a product is in CT other than "it's cartesian product, in Set" 17:06:43 then oerjan answered it 17:06:47 (it's m+n) 17:06:59 woah cool 17:07:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 17:07:16 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:07:31 what's a coproduct; are they also m+n for matrices 17:07:49 yes 17:08:22 i realise now that this'd be a lot more obvious if i'd just thought of it as the category where the objects are R^n and the morphisms are linear maps 17:08:26 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:09:12 since the product there is just R^nR^m = R^(n+m) 17:09:36 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 17:10:46 "The coproduct of the family {X_j} is an object X together with a collection of morphisms i_j : X_j → X" -- hmm 17:10:49 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130513-trip_to_work.flac (that time again) 17:10:49 -!- boily has joined. 17:11:12 fizzie: should i be listening to these flacs you put up 17:11:24 nooodl_: a coproduct is just [i need shachaf to link the diagram here] 17:11:27 Not if you like things with a "point". 17:11:35 fizzie: I hate points 17:11:51 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:12:05 if you take coproducts of "families of objects in C" how can coproducts in that category be matrix addition 17:12:08 if the objects are nats 17:12:24 (same question for products) 17:12:48 -!- nortti has joined. 17:13:00 elliott: do you mean this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coproduct-03.svg 17:14:01 I mean the one he drew for me 17:14:13 uh oh 17:14:27 shachaf: ! this sounds good 17:15:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:17:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:17:27 -!- Bike has joined. 17:18:35 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 17:18:35 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 17:18:36 -!- pikhq_ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:19:05 This time the flac was done by taking magnitude of the vector given by the Android tablet's accelerometer over my half-an-hour bicycle trip from work, sampled at 15 Hz; making a magnitude spectrogram of that; and resynthesizing with a 16 kHz sampling rate, so that e.g. 1 kHz tone in the output would correspond to a ~1 Hz component in the input. 17:19:12 (Also https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130513-trip_to_work_slow.flac a slowed-down version.) 17:21:44 -!- carado has joined. 17:22:29 fizzie: cool 17:22:33 fizzie: my ears. they send strange signals to my brains. I'm being seriously weirded out by that file. 17:25:53 I think the annoying squeaks (okay, that doesn't really uniquely identify anything) might be occasions of actual peddling going on; the louder whistling around 22 seconds in a particular set of stairs; and the silent part at the end because there was this guy out in the yard I had to perform acts of "small talk" with. 17:28:12 bleh. squishy human to human interaction. 17:31:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:31:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:33:28 -!- carado_ has joined. 17:34:10 fizzie: cool idea! 17:34:30 the coproduct in set is just the product, right 17:34:48 -!- quintopia has joined. 17:35:02 Phantom_Hoover: no 17:35:06 disjoint union 17:35:21 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:35:28 Snowyowl: i vaguely want to enter the underhanded C contest but I don't have any great ideas and I've been putting off thinking hard about it 17:39:41 In related news, the two (2) Android sensor log twibblets I tried were both kind of sucky. First one didn't work at all with the screen locked, and the second just logs a time-delta from previous measurement in rounded milliseconds instead of an absolute timestamp, which is kind of silly. (Plus the delta field for one entry says it came -431 milliseconds after the preceding one... but perhaps I hit some sort of a time warp.) 17:43:01 perhaps you did 17:43:08 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:11 -!- comex` has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:11 -!- Snowyowl has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:11 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:12 -!- quintopi1 has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:14 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:14 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:14 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:15 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:16 let's go explore the world! see you guys later 17:43:36 oh, netsplit! I love those. 17:43:36 talking about time warp 17:43:50 except with the net instead of the time, and split instead of warp 17:44:11 identical. they're just an affine transform from each other. 17:47:56 talk about a pervasive split. 17:48:10 by the sound of it, we lost Finland. 17:48:28 -!- ion has joined. 17:49:17 And Scotland 17:50:05 It still amuses me that there is approximately 1 person who can write any decent Fueue programs, and he neither created the language nor any of the three known implementations 17:53:27 Woohoo, I'm on the right side of the netsplit this time 17:53:42 Taneb: that person being you? 17:53:52 ThatOtherPerson, no, I created the language 17:53:56 oh 17:54:03 heh 17:54:05 Taneb: then who is it? 17:54:05 And one of the implementations 17:54:25 The other two implementations were created by Arc_Koen, also known as Koen_ 17:54:32 The one known Fueue programmer is... 17:54:38 dun dun DUN 17:54:40 *drumroll* 17:54:42 oerjan 17:54:47 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 17:54:52 impressive 17:55:06 * ThatOtherPerson googles Fueue 17:55:25 -!- jconn has joined. 17:56:00 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue 17:58:46 -!- comex` has joined. 17:58:46 -!- Bike has joined. 17:58:46 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 17:58:46 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:58:46 -!- nortti has joined. 18:03:22 sounds a lot like befunge in less advance 18:03:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:03:49 It's really not much like befunge at all 18:03:55 A lot closer to Underload 18:05:08 i suppose if befunge could delete and expand cells... 18:05:53 of course with that and 2d you'd soon get utter topological madness. 18:08:37 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:09:14 oerjan: which is good. 18:19:26 -!- isaac has joined. 18:20:20 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 18:20:20 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 18:20:20 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 18:20:20 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 18:20:22 -!- comex` has quit (*.net *.split). 18:20:22 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 18:20:39 -!- isaac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:22:55 -!- isaac has joined. 18:24:14 -!- isaac has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:15 Is it hubbard that keeps splitting? 18:33:42 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:34:40 -!- conehead has joined. 18:37:38 ironicaly, I'm on a Finnish server, and it's Finland that gets splitted off. 18:44:59 -!- jconn has joined. 18:51:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:52:45 yesterday's episode of Veep was largely about Finland 18:53:51 everything's about Finland. I think I may know why Canada's not existing enough. that country over there is stealing our existrons! 18:54:39 -!- calamari has joined. 19:07:27 oh good, the wiki now has a pointless boolfuck derivative 19:07:32 to go with all the pointless brainfuck derviatives 19:08:15 also appears to have no control flow 19:08:37 apart from a command for ending the program, which you apparently have to use 19:08:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:15:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:16:21 Phantom__Hoover, I'm looking forward to your next Tumblr post 19:17:06 mee to, Taneb 19:17:07 mee to 19:17:17 I've a strange feeling it's gonna be titled "Derpcode: a language whose title is both an overused and unfunny meme, and an understatement." 19:17:36 Or something along those lines 19:18:11 hey 19:18:18 when's my next tumblr post 19:18:24 -!- Bike has joined. 19:18:24 shachaf, ask Sgeo 19:18:27 do you have a tumblerchaf 19:19:07 yeseegan 19:19:11 Taneb, yessss 19:20:01 Hey, I already follow you 19:20:09 shachaf, follow phantom-hoover.tumblr.com 19:20:21 You follow me? 19:20:28 Yes 19:20:34 stalker 19:20:36 You have posted literally never 19:20:37 Good. 19:20:42 Untrue. 19:20:54 I posted a post and then deleted it. hth 19:20:58 You should follow me on Twitter! 19:21:02 I believe I do 19:21:07 Except I'm never on Twitter 19:21:17 Can you connect your twitter to your tumblr 19:21:21 Oh, you do. 19:21:26 You're way ahead of me on these things. 19:21:47 Phantom__Hoover, what's your opinion on a/an before the letter 'h'? 19:22:04 you mean as in an historian? stupid 19:22:10 obviously 'an honour' though 19:22:12 Specifically, before the word "horrific" 19:22:48 definitely a 19:22:55 Thank you 19:23:25 also my upcoming blog post will feature the word preternatural crowbarred in somewhere 19:23:37 Taneb: if it sounds like a vowel, use "a", otherwise use "an" 19:23:37 That's two words 19:23:47 ThatOtherPerson, I wanted Phantom__Hoover's opinion. 19:23:50 D: 19:23:54 Do you read his Tumblr? It's quite good 19:24:00 Yes 19:24:09 a nopinion worth having 19:24:22 `? nopinion 19:24:24 nopinion? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:24:27 imo the n should go on the word after 'a' 19:24:54 a nhonor 19:24:59 a nhour 19:25:10 a nelephant 19:25:41 a nunicorn 19:25:48 Phantom__Hoover: I see that you are a big fan of... bricks 19:26:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLKvponqV4Q&t=26 19:27:13 rest of scene is also accurate 19:27:35 ... 19:28:17 conspiracy theory: Phantom__Hoover is secretly Star651 19:30:26 Phantom__Hoover: are you a vacuum who happens to be a ghost or are you the ghost of Herbert Hoover? 19:32:38 `run ls wisdom/[Pp]* 19:32:40 wisdom/parsley \ wisdom/phantom_hoover \ wisdom/phantom__hoover \ wisdom/phantom___hoover \ wisdom/phantom_______hoover \ wisdom/phantom__________hoover \ wisdom/phantom____________________hoover \ wisdom/php \ wisdom/pi \ wisdom/pie \ wisdom/pietbot \ wisdom/pizza 19:32:50 `? phantom_hoover 19:32:52 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist. 19:32:57 `? phantom__hoover 19:32:59 Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is. 19:33:00 `? parsley 19:33:02 Parsley is a girl in the South Seas. Persil est une demoiselle des Mers du Sud. 19:33:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:33:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 19:33:29 why the fungot did I go and edit this one. 19:33:40 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 19:33:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:34:05 ThatOtherPerson, the former 19:34:12 the latter doesn't even make any sense 19:34:15 ah, okay 19:34:19 I've always wondered 19:34:37 `? pietbot 19:34:39 Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. 19:34:44 What, does Herbert Hoover not have a ghost? 19:34:59 Why would Herbert Hoover's ghost be from Edinburgh 19:35:03 Taneb, so when that sword alone can't stop, you turn to pietbot? 19:35:07 you never know 19:35:18 Phantom_Hoover, unfortunately, pietbot is dead 19:35:56 pietbot alone can't stop either, obviously 19:36:38 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:38:05 Holy Crap, this laptop PSU is 180 W according to the BIOS??? 19:38:06 Hey, where's. 19:38:16 fungot? 19:38:18 fungot! 19:38:21 no! 19:38:37 -!- fungot has joined. 19:38:46 These French freenode servers are so unrelliable. 19:39:00 Or is it "unréliable" or something. 19:39:50 it's fuck the french, fungot is eternal 19:39:51 Phantom_Hoover: so far i have only read a foreword 19:40:02 Yeah seems legit 19:40:08 see, fungot doesn't need to read the rest 19:40:08 Phantom_Hoover: pretty well. how to get my attn) is an easy way to to count zeros in a list 19:40:19 Deep. 19:40:19 ^style 19:40:19 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 19:40:29 ^style enron 19:40:29 Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset) 19:40:30 Vorpal: Why do you think the battery is recharged with fuel rods? :) 19:40:36 fungot, ooh, i don't think i've seen this one 19:40:36 Phantom_Hoover: of the spreadsheet you provided that we agreed on." " the fast. 19:41:39 pikhq_, I have a even larger power brick at work, for the docking station for this laptop 19:41:48 I want to check the wattage of that tomorrow 19:42:32 pikhq_, but yes this is for a power hungry monster of a Core i7 mobile workstation (quite small form factor though, 15.4" I think) 19:42:48 It is just barely larger than my 15.4" thinkpad 19:43:00 Slightly wider, so probably 16:9 even 19:43:34 `learn unréliable is French for «peu fiable». 19:43:38 I knew that. 19:45:06 pikhq_, it is a pretty nice development machine though 19:45:14 pikhq_, with a 250 GB Intel SSD 520 19:45:42 the only machine I ever used that boots windows 7 quickly, and where windows 7 is actually responsive right after login 19:46:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:46:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Passover_margarine_shortage 19:48:10 In addition to margarine, Tam Tam crackers were also in short supply for the 2008 Passover season.[2][5][6] 19:48:14 fungot's enron style is slightly lacking some preprocessing. 19:48:15 fizzie: davis., on an as needed. double-track ( or even different) directors to be " an independent on sunday. how do we get. phil gramm of texas." 19:52:54 Insightful. 19:53:30 -!- metasepia has joined. 19:53:30 Phantom_Hoover, I enjoyed your Tumblr post 19:53:56 http://phantom-hoover.tumblr.com/post/50360554295/derpcode-a-language-whose-title-is-both-an-overused 19:54:22 can i have a tumblr post 19:54:29 shachaf, yeah, why not 19:54:36 -!- nortti has joined. 19:54:39 But Phantom_Hoover writes his himself! Why can't you! 19:55:03 im not as good as Phantom_Hoover................................................................... 19:56:23 shachaf, maybe you can read Phantom_Hoover's and take inspiration 20:00:41 elliott, Hexham has a town diary! Did you know? 20:00:44 http://www.hexhamcommunity.net/pages/town-diary.php 20:02:28 i... don't think "haberdashery" means what Phantom_Hoover used it to mean 20:03:21 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Bye). 20:05:10 Taneb: i did not know 20:06:01 Taneb: you should clarify that it's a different sam hughes 20:06:14 Phantom_Hoover: Thanks for letting Sam Hughes live. 20:06:29 (It's the good Sam Hughes, not the evil qntm.org one.) 20:06:59 Taneb: also i suggest consulting with Phantom_Hoover wrt whether he thinks Derplang is actually any good or not 20:07:49 also i have a feeling you may find the blog spontaneously deleted if you actually threaten to track down and kill someone :P 20:08:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 20:08:55 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 20:09:23 i see elliott isn't familiar with tumblr 20:12:45 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 20:13:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:14:46 kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_global_rice_crisis 20:15:02 do you guys know about how writing a derplang implementation that does the same thing as the lua one is almost impossible 20:15:20 that's pretty impossible. 20:16:01 part of it is the spec just being really bad, but, there's some crazy stuff!! like the "hidden "loadfile "command""" 20:19:12 also hey i thought it was derp/code/, there are two different dumb languages here 20:19:27 umh, is that ``hidden ``loadfile ``command''''''? 20:19:56 no, it's «"hidden "loadfile "commad"""» hth 20:20:10 ah, I see 20:20:27 Er. 20:20:28 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 20:20:31 s/ad/and/ 20:20:34 * shachaf sighs. 20:21:06 thanks shachaf 20:21:09 hidden loadfile comonad 20:21:27 Jafet: seems like a bigger deal 20:21:27 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:21:32 shachaf: "loandfile"? 20:21:32 @quote commonad 20:21:32 shachaf says: [comonad] Not to be confused with edwardk's effort to standardize all the common operators for automatic differentiation, "commonad". 20:21:53 elliott: i stopped caring about regexp golfing. or correctness. hth 20:22:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Icelandic_lorry_driver_protests 20:22:39 @tell oerjan oh, there are some cubes with an image on each face, or a logo on every square, and in that case the centers can end up wrong if you solve it the normal way 20:22:40 Consider it noted. 20:23:01 09:01 ok that picture rationale makes it make sense 20:23:15 2008 was quite a year, huh 20:24:06 ok then 20:24:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Irish_pork_crisis 20:25:04 " However, it has been estimated that over the course of the next century, approximately 20% of the Irish population may see a reduction in life expectancy by as much as 5 years due to the contamination of pork" uh shit 20:25:18 can i play 20:25:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_salmonellosis_outbreak 20:25:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal 20:25:36 wow 20:25:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:28:17 "A number of criminal prosecutions occurred, with two people being executed," that's a bit weird 20:28:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:28:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Canadian_listeriosis_outbreak 20:28:38 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:28:38 -!- comex` has joined. 20:28:40 -!- augur has joined. 20:29:14 Bike, were they actually responsible 20:30:14 maybe 20:30:45 Bike: china 20:33:07 it's still the wackiest thing how china is considered communist by people 20:33:15 i mean this is straight out of The Jungle 20:35:01 yep 20:35:12 the US was also involved in massive copyright infringement in the 19th century 20:35:15 counterfeit goods etc 20:35:27 same shit different day 20:39:06 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:43:43 Uh, pretty sure no one except the chinese communists think china is communist 20:44:00 you'd be surprised! 20:45:43 On the other hand, communism has never been all that well defined anyway 20:45:56 Has U-Tube gotten rid of the "view the playlist" option that would just view a separate list page of the playlist, instead of viewing one of the videos and a playlist sidebar that's too narrow to show untruncated titles? 20:45:57 Since about 1990, china might be taken as the working definition 20:46:32 (At least IIRC formerly the small-print "view full playlist" link in the search results window went to that sort of separate list page.) 20:46:47 last time I used that option fizzie, that option was still there 20:46:48 hth 20:47:08 The link is still there, but it just goes to the last video of the playlist, for me, now. 20:48:08 youtube-dl downloads playlists 20:49:05 Like, the full contents, or just... makes some sort of playlist files? (The whole point of wanting the separate list page is that I don't want to look at *all* of this crap.) 20:50:31 @google youtube-dl --help 20:50:32 http://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/download.html 20:50:32 Title: youtube-dl: Download Page 20:51:40 "youtube-dl --help" suggests the playlist features are for downloading all (or from A to B, or matching/not matching a given regex, or up to N) videos in a playlist. 20:52:24 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:52:39 -e, --get-title simulate, quiet but print title 20:53:55 I can't figure out what URL to pass to youtube-dl in order to make it download a playlist, actually. 20:55:09 Presumably the old separate list page would've worked, but if I could go there, I wouldn't need youtube-dl at all; youtube-dl -e of where I end up with the "view full playlist" link just prints the title of the last video. 20:55:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:56:23 I can find playlist links. Perhaps you can try turning javascript off. 20:57:04 i have a 2×2×2 cube as well 20:57:10 <`^_^v> what is a good first eso lang to build an interpreter/compiler for? extent of my knowledge is an undergrad compilers course. i don't want to do whitespace (having already looked at the code for an interpreter) or brainfuck (too overdone?) 20:58:00 Hmmmm. 20:58:17 Intercal? :) 20:58:22 i think most esolangs don't really exercise compilers knowledge because they're designed as flat sequences of instructions 20:58:28 pikhq_: that's probably a bad idea 20:58:36 befunge? 20:58:38 Glass? 20:58:42 parsing INTERCAL is a nightmare 20:58:43 boily: That's even worse. 20:58:47 eodermdrome? 20:58:48 pikhq_: I know. 20:59:03 befunge-93 is easy to interpret, at least. 20:59:05 kmc: I think serious answers would be better than joke answers 20:59:12 Glass is no joke! 20:59:20 Yeah, befunge-93 can be interpreted in an afternoon. 20:59:57 maybe an optimized binary from some variant of OISC could be interesting. 21:00:14 a tracing JIT for a typical esolang would be cool 21:00:20 yeah, glass is actually a sensible answer 21:01:00 Of course it somewhat assumes that one likes Glass. 21:01:00 brainfuck has nearly unlimited scope for compiler optimization 21:01:24 Yeah, if you're interested in optimization Brainfuck actually isn't terrible. 21:01:27 Most brainfuck compilers are limited to trivial things like run-length encoding 21:01:28 <`^_^v> i'll look into some of those, thanks 21:01:42 Nontrivial Brainfuck optimization is an actual challenge. 21:03:28 Brainfuck, where RLE encoding can be an optimisation 21:03:37 Research into brainfuck optimization techniques may also yield practical results; imagine the bfjoust language extensions 21:04:13 so what exactly do you think "practical" mean? 21:04:17 I wonder if x86 chips handle consecutive nops 21:04:31 Research into brainfuck optimization has yielded several stepping stones on the road to practical interstellar travel and curing various diseases. 21:05:00 demyelinating disease? consider it Brain Fucked (TM) by esolang enterprises llc 21:05:07 Koen: antinonatheoretical 21:05:10 Jafet: No, but x86 has a number of recommended nop sequences. 21:05:14 Jafet: you don't want to fiddle with the nops. 21:05:19 are you implying the long-awaited space lift is gonna be built out of stones? 21:05:29 and programmed in brainfuck 21:05:29 So that you can pad code with a wide number of lengths whilst taking 1 cycle. 21:06:07 Advanced shellcode acceleration 21:06:41 nop slides tend to prefer 0x90. :) 21:07:14 Multibyte nops where every suffix is still a nop sounds like a "practical" shellcode acceleration technique. 21:07:17 that question won me a raspberry in a not-quite-sober jeopardy! session. 21:07:22 Multi-byte nops are good if you want to change the instruction at some point to some other multibyte instruction 21:07:27 trust x86 to come up with so many creative ways to do nothing 21:07:37 fizzie: I' 21:07:45 fizzie: I'm pretty sure x86 doesn't have those though. 21:08:06 the long nops are often built with unnecessary prefix bytes 21:08:10 so a suffix of that would also be a nop 21:08:14 but probably not down to 1 byte 21:08:18 Ah. Neat. 21:08:33 if it's only prefixes and 0x90, it should work I guess 21:08:48 modrm is a suffix, unfortunately 21:09:02 pikhq_: Intel's recommended 2-byte nop is 66 NOP, for which the suffix is a nop. 21:09:48 The longer ones don't, at a glance, seem to have that property. 21:10:04 (They don't have prefixes; it's more about dummy operands.) 21:10:19 (Don't know if AMD's recommended NOPs are more prefixy.) 21:10:50 http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v3.9.2/arch/x86/include/asm/nops.h 21:11:00 it would be sort of interesting to calculate how many possible nop instructions that x86 has 21:11:17 mov eax, ax 21:11:20 mov eax, eax 21:11:37 "mov eax, ax" doesn't assemble does it 21:11:45 Shouldn't 21:11:49 different things can be nops in different contexts, can't they? 21:11:53 also mov eax, eax isn't a nop in 64 bit 21:12:04 like you could play with the flags before a cmp or whatever 21:12:11 -!- tswett has changed nick to [-{|\_}-]. 21:12:11 Bike: to make it easy let's only count the ones that are always nops 21:12:28 booooooooooooooriiiiiiiiiiing 21:13:03 None of the nops.h lists seem to correspond with (this version of) Intel's optimization manual. 21:13:04 perhaps you could take instructions that are >90% likely to be nops for a random context 21:13:23 Kind of a pointless criterion, don't you think 21:13:46 On ARM, 0x00000000 is and r0, r0, r0, which is the standard nop 21:13:57 that's handy 21:14:01 I wonder how often strncpy is used on ARM 21:14:14 I hear 0 isn't a nop on x86 for some deliberate reason?? 21:14:37 maybe they didn't plan for a nop, and started assigning opcodes at 0 21:14:40 "fuck zeroes" - intel engineers 21:14:51 Also: "The other NOPs have no special hardware support. Their input and output registers are interpreted by the hardware. Therefore, a code generator should arrange to use the register containing the oldest value as input, so that the NOP will dispatch and release RS resources at the earliest possible opportunity." 21:14:58 0 is ... add? 21:15:00 Not that you'd expect a kernel to do that. 21:15:15 0000 add [rax], al 21:15:23 udcli is the best 21:15:29 udcli? 21:15:39 @google udcli 21:15:40 http://udis86.sourceforge.net/ 21:15:40 Title: udis86 disassembler library for x86 21:15:42 ADD r/m8, r8, more generally. 21:16:02 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:16:22 oh, it's a disassembler, I thought it was an instruction 21:16:36 %rip, %(lambdabot) 21:16:54 -!- ellipsis753 has joined. 21:17:05 obviously there should be an architecture with a disass instruction 21:17:28 Also: "The other NOPs have no special hardware support. Their input and output registers are interpreted by the hardware. Therefore, a code generator should arrange to use the register containing the oldest value as input, so that the NOP will dispatch and release RS resources at the earliest possible opportunity." <-- yes, but some specific ones actually have hardware support these days 21:17:29 VAX (?) had an execute-from-register instruction 21:17:31 and a datass instruction 21:17:38 damn straight 21:17:40 Read the Intel Manual, it has a list of them 21:17:49 Vorpal: That was a quote from the Intel manual. 21:17:50 Intel Optimization manual maybe 21:17:54 Jafet: xec? i wanna say that was pdp 21:18:00 Vorpal: The Intel Optimization manual, in particular. 21:18:03 or was that execute from memory 21:18:23 fizzie, really? I remember reading that it optimises away the registry usage when scheduling 21:18:28 Was it AMD that did that then? 21:18:44 Jafet: S/390 has a similar one as well, I think it does something like combine an instruction in memory with immediate operand values stored in a register 21:18:45 Vorpal: Only for XCHG EAX, EAX. Though this is not the latest copy; maybe it's changed. 21:18:56 "Try to observe the following NOP generation priority: * Select the smallest number of NOPs and pseudo-NOPs to provide the desired padding. * Select NOPs that are least likely to execute on slower execution unit clusters. * Select the register arguments of NOPs to reduce dependencies." must be loads of joy to be a compiler developer. 21:19:05 fizzie, okay, so it does it for that specific one at least? 21:19:08 (Now I'm mildly curious to see what GCC's nop-padding code looks like.) 21:19:09 Hey, I was wondering if anyone managed to make a two instruction language that's semi-turing complete? I've seen a few 3-instruction languages but non that require only 2. 21:19:20 Vorpal: That's why the quote started with "the *other* NOPs". 21:19:24 SK calculus? 21:19:24 -!- [-{|\_}-] has changed nick to tswett. 21:19:26 fsvo "instruction" 21:19:26 ah 21:19:33 I've only seen gcc pad with 0x90 21:19:38 Bike: plus various single combinator bases 21:19:50 Jafet: I'm reasonably sure it knows about the longer nops. 21:19:51 Jafet, I seen it pad with mixed stuff 21:19:57 yeah, SK is the easiest to remember though 21:19:57 pads don't need to be nops 21:20:12 ellipsis753: oh, and OISC, obviously 21:20:15 just valid instructions to prevent "oops there are invalid instructions here, let's go slowly" 21:20:47 ellipsis753: There is a one-instruction turing complete language 21:21:37 How many registers does an OISC need for completeness? 21:21:56 I thought oisc with subleq only used memory. 21:21:58 http://sprunge.us/UaOF <-- that's quite the NOP. 21:22:12 "data32 data32 data32 data32 nopw %cs:0x0(%rax,%rax,1)", 14 bytes. 21:22:17 nice 21:22:24 there is a maximum valid instruction length though 21:22:26 fizzie, what does data32 mean? 21:22:28 nopw? boring! it should say what the instruction is 21:22:32 Bike: how much memory, then 21:22:41 Vorpal: The operand size override prefix. 21:22:42 Vorpal: it's an operand size override 21:22:49 ah 21:22:57 That you can repeat like that? 21:22:59 Huh 21:23:08 Uh... hm. 21:23:17 How many brainfuck cells are needed again? 21:23:18 hmm, but doesn't the operand size prefix give you 16-bit operand size in long mode? 21:23:54 olsner: I don't think they have more than one name for it. But not sure. 21:24:32 Bike, 3 of infinite size iirc? Or infinite one-bit 21:24:34 With -m32 it decides to go with two seven-byte nops; lea 0x0(%esi,%eiz,1),%esi; lea 0x0(%edi,%eiz,1),%edi 21:24:48 what is %eiz again? 21:24:48 (Clearly it's thinking about the registers, given that it's used different regs for those two.) 21:24:57 dummy register to specify instruction encoding? 21:25:04 You can't use one-bit memory with an OISC because you wouldn't be able to address most of it. 21:25:20 olsner, I would guess it is the register iz extended to 32 bits? 21:25:28 But I never heard of an iz register 21:25:29 so eh 21:25:30 Vorpal: There's no such register. 21:25:33 olsner: Yes, it's gas's silly name for a zero in that context. 21:25:40 ah 21:25:52 probably relates to the hilaribad libopcodes API 21:26:04 they can't just write 0x0(%esi,0,1) 21:26:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:26:25 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:26:35 a hysterical raisin then 21:26:41 Or (%esi + 1) 21:27:00 Or in fact that is just (%esi) 21:27:06 0 + 0 + 1 * %esi? 21:27:23 %esi + 1 * 0 + 0 21:27:44 the index is always a register, I think 21:27:45 Ok. I was a little vague but I think the answer may be that there is non yet in the form I am looking for. A language which requires no registers and just two a program and data tape. Two instructions that take no arguments and do not rely on anything on the program tape for meaning. NOP counts as an instruction. Sort of turing complete as in must be able to do any calculation in finite memory (so doesn't need to 21:27:45 be able to allocate more). Does not need input/output and memory mapping seems like cheating. Does that make sense and does such a language exist? I was thinking of trying to make something out of only analog components and tape that could interprete one of these simple languages. 21:27:55 what 21:28:21 sad grownup realisation of the week: letting taneb assume my identity to make violent threats to random people over the internet may not be a great move 21:28:22 "able to do any calculation in finite memory" isn't true of turing machines~ 21:28:37 The padding depends on the architecture, of course. If I tell it to do -march=barcelona (AMD thing), it aligns functions to 32 bytes with two data32 data32 data32 data32 data32 nopw %cs:0x0(%rax,%rax,1) instructions. 21:28:42 you're describing a "bounded-storage machine" 21:28:52 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:28:53 Phantom_Hoover: you're a grownup now? welcome to boringland 21:29:20 Bike, those look cool. Although ideally I'd like to have no registers. 21:29:45 SK doesn't have any registers. bam solved 21:30:07 Bike, Ok. Sort of turing complete as in forth. 21:30:08 I'm not sure what you mean by not relying on the tape for meaning 21:30:19 What about the 2,3 thing that ais proved TC? 21:30:44 Vorpal, What is that? 21:30:48 ellipsis753, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-3_turing_machine 21:31:18 Bike, I mean, nothing like "Read the next 5 bits to work out what this single instruction does. Then jump 6 bits ahead". 21:31:21 guy from in here proved it TC 21:31:25 (ais523) 21:32:23 Boringland: http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/kadmy/kadmy1008/kadmy100800061/7565319-huge-construction-equipment-metal-bore-for-earth-drilling-machine.jpg 21:32:37 ellipsis753: Would you consider an increment instruction to violate that? I mean, the state of the tape afterwards relies on the state of the tape before its execution. 21:33:37 Vorpal: Also I don't think it's all *that* sanctioned to put in redundant prefixes; it just works. From what I recall, the Intel manual doesn't quite explicitly forbid it, but doesn't allow it either. (The chapter on instruction format says "it is only useful to include up to one prefix code from each of the four groups", but doesn't say what happens if you decide to be not useful. Possibly some of the figures also imply an upper limit.) 21:35:46 It does explicitly say "use of repeat prefixes [that is, rep] -- with other [than string / I/O] instructions is reserved; such use may cause unpredictable behaviour", which makes that rep ret thing a bit funny. 21:35:48 i think the maximum instruction length is 15 bytes 21:36:17 fizzie, heh 21:36:45 kmc, even with AVX and all that modern stuff? 21:37:21 Bike, increment instruction as to increase a number on the data tape? No I only have issues with an instruction relying on other instructions. (on the program tape). However ideally if the data tape only contained bits it would be a lot easier to make. 21:37:43 not positive 21:37:45 Vorpal, That's interesting, however surely it requires 3 instructions (and 2 states?) 21:37:53 15 has at least been one of the limits. 21:37:55 Hm true 21:38:25 15 is still mentioned in the manuals that are new enough to have AVX 21:38:39 (but that doesn't rule out an exception for them) 21:38:54 The optimization manual says, on the topic of the Pentium M's decoder, that the "first decoder is capable of decoding one macroinstruction -- it can handle any number of bytes up to the maximum of 15." But that's very circumstancial evidence. 21:40:41 Shame there's no 256-bit immediates in AVXy stuff. 21:40:50 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:41:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:41:18 ellipsis753: how do you distinguish "other instructions" from say numbers 21:42:27 Bike, the program tape would normally be read only and never be read other than for the current instruction being run currently. It should not store numbers. 21:42:38 However this doesn't really matter. 21:42:57 it kind of does, for your question you'll need a very well understood notion of "instruction" 21:43:40 for example, with the 2-3 machine, you're apparently counting each symbol as an instruction, whereas with other m-n machines you'd count them just as data 21:45:19 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:45:43 http://sprunge.us/PSgf "ah, screw it, I give up", says GCC. 21:46:57 keep trying, maybe there's a magic align-functions value that will give you an awesome easter egg 21:48:46 fizzie, what about 48? 21:49:11 or 24? 21:49:33 I think it only accepts powers of two, it doesn't even bother aligning otherwise 21:49:37 Vorpal: It has a different meaning for non-power-of-two sizes. 21:49:39 istr that functions in the linux kernel aren't aligned; this was a problem because ksplice can't patch a function with fewer than 5 bytes of code 21:50:11 fizzie, oh? 21:50:26 there were some cases where we would hot-patch a function to do nothing, but we'd add some NOPs in case we had to patch it again 21:50:42 Vorpal, olsner: -falign-functions=24 means "align to 32 bytes but only if you can do it by skipping 23 bytes or less". 21:50:49 kmc, you were involved in ksplice? 21:51:03 fizzie, lol what 21:51:08 fizzie, try 128 then? 21:51:10 fizzie: is that ever needed 21:51:20 Bike: No idea, but that's what it means. 21:51:33 Vorpal: yeah I worked there for the 8 months before it was bought by oracle 21:51:36 "-falign-functions=n: Align the start of functions to the next power-of-two greater than n, skipping up to n bytes. For instance, -falign-functions=32 aligns functions to the next 32-byte boundary, but -falign-functions=24 aligns to the next 32-byte boundary only if this can be done by skipping 23 bytes or less." 21:51:59 rough guess, some alignment speed vs space trade off control 21:52:05 definitely my favorite job ever 21:52:05 kmc, ah 21:52:06 Wikipedia also considers them instructions "executes the instructions in the following table". Unless I'm mistaken. But yes, you're correct. I'm being bad at explaining myself. Sorry. I guess I'm currently thinking of trying to implement something like minifuck (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Minifuck) and wondered if anyone had managed to get it down to just two commands. 21:52:23 what's funny is that then I worked with mostly the same people on a different project (web startup) and it was a bad fit and I left 21:52:39 heh 21:52:42 Good night. 21:52:53 i thought that the job was all about the people but now I'm more cynical 21:53:05 plus it wasn't *exactly* the same people, some of them went elsewhere and they brought in others 21:53:17 seems odd for people working on ksplice to go work on a web startup 21:53:23 yeah 21:53:38 the k in ksplice stands for kmc 21:53:49 there's way more money in webapps than in technically complex computer systems work 21:54:04 and like, they'd already done the latter, so why not try something different 21:54:09 which is what I thought as well, but I didn't like it 21:54:19 is there actually way more money in cloning IRC 21:54:24 like don't enterprises and shit care about ksplice 21:54:29 theoretically 21:54:48 shrug, their target price for selling the new company is way more than what ksplice sold for 21:55:02 it's still a long way from that happening 21:55:09 the goal was to sell the company? not to make whatever you made? 21:55:09 this business model where you start off by planning to get bought out...... 21:55:16 because you can't make a profit because you have no actual business model 21:55:25 fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk startups 21:55:26 well ksplice was making a profit 21:55:36 though 'making a profit' is pretty arbitrary 21:55:38 elliott, maoist revolutionary software developer 21:55:45 if you have revenue, you can put it in the bank or you can spend it on growth 21:55:58 it would be idiotic if a small company planning on rapid growth had a lot of cash in the bank 21:56:18 so even when startups have a reliable revenue stream, they tend to be just-under-profitable 21:57:09 now I agree that companies with no business model which are just getting bought on hype are dumb 21:57:15 but that's a more specific case than just "not profitable" 21:57:58 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:58:22 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:58:24 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 21:58:54 ELLIOTT FOR PRESIDENT 21:58:59 getting bought is a popular option now because the regulatory burden of an IPO is a lot more onerous after the Sarbanes-Oxley Act 21:59:06 president of maoism 21:59:19 you'll recall that in the '90's dot com boom there were a lot of IPOs of just-formed companies 21:59:26 and not so much in the current bubble 21:59:32 well elliott won't recall because he was an infant then 21:59:34 "you'll recall" 21:59:35 yes 22:00:01 anyway people do also start companies with the intent to keep them small and make a steady stream of revenue and have a fun job and be your own boss and whatever 22:00:07 sometimes called "lifestyle business" 22:00:09 dumb term I know 22:00:13 but that's not typically what's meant by "startup" 22:00:22 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 22:00:28 imo, capitalism 22:00:43 "startup" implies rapid growth 22:00:46 is lifestyle capitalism like lifestyle anarchism (except you get money) 22:01:06 i'm no fan of paul graham as you all know, but he does know this world and i thought http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html was a pretty good essay 22:02:11 Paul is such a lispie 22:02:13 hmm, growth? why would you do anything for growth? 22:02:32 because you can get rich 22:02:47 if you own 20% of a business and it grows by a factor of 1000 22:02:50 then you are rich as fuck 22:02:57 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:03:14 like kmc's hero, paul graham. 22:03:18 lolol 22:03:32 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 22:03:37 I see, I guess that motives the hell out of some people 22:03:48 money is useful 22:03:59 no matter what your goals are in life, having a bunch of money tends to help 22:04:38 kmc: i'm younger than you so i probably have longer to accomplish all your goals, therefore give me all of your money 22:04:46 money doesn't buy happiness but it buys the freedom to pursue happiness, and the power to help others in ways you can't directly help them 22:05:29 pretty sure money actually does buy a lot of happiness 22:05:59 some money does, more money than that doesn't (or does but much less efficiently) 22:06:06 people tend to assume that the pursuit of money implies the pursuit of shitty status symbols like a fancy car 22:06:09 It doesn't buy happiness, but it sure as hell permits it. 22:06:13 but it's your money, you can spend it on what you find worthwhile 22:08:12 one could argue that "money doesn't buy happiness" is propaganda that the ruling / capital-owning class uses to dull the economic self-interest of the working class 22:12:15 back later 22:13:31 anyway, the point I forgot to make was that the goal of your startup (grow it and sell it) was probably the reason it was so crappy compared to previous projects with the same people 22:13:53 Bike: should i see the film _The Bridge Over the River Kwai_ 22:14:04 Yeah. 22:14:13 are you sure 22:14:23 Yeah. 22:14:30 oh, wait, it's only playing this thu-fri anyway 22:14:43 Is there any film I could ask you about that you wouldn't say I should watch? 22:15:05 Yeah, like... Avatar. 22:15:15 A Navatar. 22:16:08 Bike: How about I see it if you see a nother film? 22:16:15 What film? 22:16:27 Um, I'm not sure. 22:16:41 well, get back to me when you've made your decision. 22:16:50 _Funny Bones_? 22:17:24 http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BODk0NzYzMzc4OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTQyNTUyMQ@@._V1_SY317_CR2,0,214,317_.jpg looks p. intense 22:18:00 i watched it on someone's recommendation and enjoyed it 22:18:07 it's not the same sort of film as that other film, though 22:22:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:27:33 Bike: don t like it?? 22:30:07 don't like what 22:30:12 the film 22:30:21 i don't know, i haven't seen it 22:30:35 and you aren't going to, either? 22:33:17 well, is it your decision 22:33:30 Oh. 22:33:35 If I see this film you'll see that one? 22:37:45 I suppose. 22:38:09 i suspect i might be getting the better end of that deal 22:38:21 but ok 22:38:38 depends on which kinds of movies you both enjoy 22:39:25 bridge over the river kwai is probably "better", but funny bones looks funnier 22:39:36 i hate comedy hth 22:39:55 then you should love the bridge over the river kwai 22:40:07 (unless that has comedy in it) 22:40:46 have you been to ikea at closing time? they play the theme from that movie to get people to speed up to the checkout 22:41:05 no 22:41:11 i've only been in sweden for two days in my life 22:41:14 no time to go to ikea hth 22:41:25 ikea exists everywhere, hth 22:41:36 like adjunctions? hth 22:42:26 I don't understand what that "hth" could possibly mean. 22:42:55 Bike: it means hth, hth 22:43:20 Bike: listen to olsner hth 22:44:31 "Hyperbolic tange here"? 22:44:35 I'll just go hth myself into bed 22:44:46 tmi! 22:44:56 fungot: explain hth. 22:44:56 fizzie: if we do not as a matter of the last few years. 22:45:08 fungot: Okay. 22:45:08 fizzie: by the time we tried to keep that in mind that the true costs. 22:50:16 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:50:22 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 22:50:36 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:51:31 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:51:35 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:55:08 -!- JesseH has joined. 22:55:09 @ask mnoqy should i see Bike's film 22:55:14 oh no, no lambdabot 22:56:49 Hmm. 22:56:58 My e key is, uh, springy? 22:57:08 That's why I get double 'e's. 22:57:15 ^ask mnoqy Should shachaf see Bike's film? 22:57:15 Yeah, I'll get right on that. (Not.) 22:57:27 Don't be an asshole, fungot. 22:57:28 Bike: on the first i finally, we came to the transactions of others we hoped it would have the time to get to the last two and a one of a/ a program of the messages that have the public. 22:57:37 ^ask qqqq 22:57:37 Yeah, I'll get right on that. (Not.) 22:57:56 ^show ask 22:57:56 (Yeah, I'll get right on that. (Not.))S 22:58:00 If I get press it with a particular strength. I get two 'e's. 22:59:53 @type (not.) 23:01:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:04 -!- augur has joined. 23:23:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:29:36 -!- ellipsis753 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:36:24 -!- augur has joined. 23:36:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:37:35 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 23:37:35 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:37:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:40:42 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:41:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:48:06 -!- augur has joined.