00:03:39 kmc: Yeah, that's entirely legit. 00:04:19 Ultimately all you care about for a compiler IR is that it performs well. 00:10:40 Though I'll note that C is not very good as a compiler IR for Brainfuck. 00:10:48 GCC *hates* LostKng. :) 00:11:39 I should play that at some point probabl 00:11:40 y 00:16:17 (really, the problematic bit there is GCC uses a truly insane amount of RAM for that) 00:16:45 * Sgeo blinks 00:16:49 Um.... huh? 00:17:05 GCC, building LostKng converted to C, uses insane quantities of RAM. 00:17:10 I thought the problematic bit was that trying to interpret one language as being in a different language ... oh 00:17:46 Well. It doesn't on esotope-bfc output. 00:17:49 -!- Regis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:17:55 Anything less sophisticated though? Yeesh. 00:22:32 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:23:08 Huh. gcc-4.8 is actually much more reasonable. 00:24:51 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:37:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:58 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:16:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:17:46 -!- augur has joined. 01:44:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:04:16 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:15:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:21:05 -!- conehead has joined. 02:36:58 Maybe I should try to get my hands on a copy of Fitznik at some point 02:37:01 wonder if it works on WINE 02:37:27 http://media.tumblr.com/8d532386ec91813faa0a66aa635b56b4/tumblr_inline_mn2oigp0nC1qz4rgp.gif 02:38:05 Reminds me of that screensaver 02:38:19 Which... reminds me of another screensaver, that I liked as a kid, and couldn't find again 02:45:20 "Fitznik 2 features 65,000 color graphics and requires a Windows computer running at 500Mhz or faster." 02:51:42 Fitznik did not like WINE 02:51:48 Now I have to reset my rsolution, ugh 02:53:24 Is there any software on Earth more buggy than fluidsynth X_X 02:53:45 I am considering creating a new esoteric language :P 02:56:32 HRMPH 02:56:42 I assume that this game uses .xm files, but don't know how to GET AT THEM 02:57:10 is the language called :P 02:58:23 strings shows me a list of files in this file 03:00:13 It's just a zip file. Just opened it. 03:01:11 And... I'm an idiot and unzipped in ~ 03:09:19 ..ok... I try to apt-get install mplayer and it tries to upgrade glibc 03:09:21 I'm scared 03:11:41 Gregor, does zsudo count? 03:12:29 I doubt if it could conceivably be more buggy than fluidsynth. 03:13:41 https://raw.github.com/cbcercas/zpanel-freebsd/master/config_packs/freebsd/bin/zsudo.c Feast your eyes. 03:14:43 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:15:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:39:50 Oh look, I can get to github again. 03:40:16 -!- quintopia has joined. 03:40:21 Gregor 03:40:22 Gregand 03:40:34 Gregor, now go, and behold zsudo! 03:40:35 As mind-bogglingly buggy as that is, it's simply too insubstantial to be as buggy as fluidsynth. 03:40:43 It may have more bugs per line, but it cannot have as many bugs. 03:41:34 gregxor, the monster attacking tokyo 03:45:28 -!- quintopia has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:45:39 -!- quintopia has joined. 03:51:27 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:51:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:52:08 Do you have the right to commit suicide? 03:52:33 yep, the union negotiated that one back in '74 03:54:08 zzo38: i think it depends on whether you have the mercurial password for the suicide project 03:54:11 (In case you don't know, I do mean you personally.) 03:54:37 yes, by the union i meant my union 03:56:43 typedef union {Bike bike; Suicide suicide} myunion; 03:57:26 i like that zzo38 means "you personally" and yet he asked the question immediately after joining 03:58:05 he meant I, Bike, and nobody else 03:58:36 zzo38 asked the question personally of each of us 03:58:43 mnoqy: sup cutie ;) 03:58:52 hi 03:58:53 shachaf has no right 04:02:59 shachaf: Yes, that is what I mean. 04:04:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:05:36 zzo38: serious answer: no, i have no right to commit suicide. society needs me too badly. 04:08:20 -!- olsner has joined. 04:13:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:14:38 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:17:11 I just thought of a use I have for a Raspberry Pi 04:17:26 I could finish transferring my data off the damaged HD 04:17:45 Without tying up one of my normal computers. 04:21:28 http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/41095.wss "IBM brings COBOL to cloud and mobile" 04:26:10 -!- olsner has joined. 04:27:03 and of course you didn't see any of that, the internet is broken 04:28:46 C stands for cloud right 04:29:13 cloud oriented business originality language 04:29:21 “With more than 200 billion lines of COBOL code being used across industries such as banking, insurance, retail and human resources” 04:30:32 > 200e9 / (50 * 365 * 100) 04:30:36 109589.04109589041 04:30:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:30:55 Sounds legit 04:34:11 yeah I took a programming languages survey class in college and we had a lecture where we filled out a big matrix of programming languages and their properties 04:34:34 and when we got to COBOL the only thing any of us (including the instructor) knew was that more lines of COBOL had been written than anything else 04:34:37 a linear operator on the vector space of pointless bullshit 04:34:47 maybe i should learn COBOL and put it on my resume 04:35:55 learn BOL instead hth 04:36:13 you know how they say that a bunch of COBOL programmers came out of retirement and made mad cash fixing Y2K bugs? 04:36:14 business oriented language, that is uncommon 04:36:22 i want to do that for Y2038 bugs 04:36:36 how many unix systems use cobol 04:36:40 or. wait i get it nvm 04:36:53 I knew a bit of COBOL 04:36:59 Read a For Dummies book on it 04:36:59 i assume that by 2038, Linux and x86 will just be a useless ignored compatibility layer between some webapp framework and some cloud hypervisor 04:37:03 even moreso than today 04:37:08 right 04:37:11 and so few people will still learn that layer 04:37:31 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:37:39 Saw it in a bookstore, and misremembered 'CORBA' 04:37:54 (Which was a thing I wanted to learn about after seeing it referenced somewhere) 04:37:56 man what am i gonna be doing in 2038. i'll be like, 90 or something 04:38:04 you're already like 90 04:38:12 i'll be 90er 04:38:17 i'll turn 50 that year 04:38:22 Bike: that's p. 90 04:38:22 we'll have abandoned traditional numerics by then you see 04:38:25 maybe Supertrain will have opened by then 04:39:41 SUPERTRAAAAAIN 04:39:49 vroom 04:40:02 PUMPKIIIIIIIIN 04:40:05 yawg 04:40:33 copumpkin: bayhac was p. good 04:40:46 copumpkin: we all wished you were here 04:40:53 "maybe next year" 04:40:56 aww 04:41:12 by "we all" i mean "me" 04:41:19 the royal 04:41:20 maybe other people too i didn't ask.. 04:42:07 copumpkin: I won't ask about that story. 04:42:39 :) 04:44:21 Oh my goodness. 04:44:22 copumpkin: Do you have any good puzzles for me? 04:44:33 http://imgur.com/a/lyYaM#0 04:44:37 It is possible to have a git repository that goes all Oroboros. 04:44:45 With a commit having itself as its parent. 04:44:51 pikhq: how would that work? 04:44:57 "git replace". 04:44:57 copumpkin: :-( 04:44:59 you'd need it to hash to itself 04:45:03 oh, you mean editing the blob 04:45:10 It lets you say "when you would read this blob, read this blob instead". 04:45:12 it wouldn't pass a check though 04:45:24 This is actually a git feature. 04:45:28 very nice 04:45:33 what's it for. 04:45:43 You can say "read SHA1 X when you would read SHA1 Y" 04:46:01 shachaf: what kind of puzzle do you want? 04:46:04 Additionally, a crazy SHA1 collision could do this. :P 04:46:08 Bike: Stupid hacks. 04:46:15 i love stupid hacks (no i don't) 04:46:28 copumpkin: Any kind. 04:46:38 i found a script to bruteforce vanity SHA1s for git commits 04:46:41 copumpkin: Well -- a good kind. 04:46:48 there should be a GPU version of that 04:46:51 vanity SHAs. stupid future 04:47:10 glad that my "stupid future" meme is catching on 04:47:17 too bad Bitcoin ASICs are probably useless for that 04:47:28 just migrate git to double sha256 04:47:41 easy peasy 04:47:46 copumpkin: There was a bitcoin conference here this weekend. 04:47:52 You should've come! 04:47:54 yeah, everyone's talking about it 04:48:00 roconnor was here 04:48:02 you are my meme hero kmc. look forward to seeing your face or whatever on a colored background, with large white text about.... stuff. 04:48:11 roconnor wrote a weblog post about me!!!!! 04:48:15 oh yeah? 04:48:18 i dunno what kids meme about. cats 04:48:30 no it was about prisms but it mentioned me 04:48:49 oh 04:48:52 Photoshop Hero 04:49:08 http://24.media.tumblr.com/80d930bdb551243156afc40d0d184079/tumblr_mn2vcakVNp1qblhajo1_1280.png 04:49:51 Bike: thx 04:50:00 np 04:50:02 yep 04:50:13 -!- olsner has joined. 04:50:20 btw, http://modularcircuits.tantosonline.com/blog/articles/the-cray-files/ was what I was talking about while pinging out 04:50:34 that and the 2GB/s SSD you could get for your Cray X-MP/4 04:51:01 copumpkin: You always have good puzzles. 04:51:04 * olsner reloads the logs to see if any of this is getting anywhere 04:51:09 copuzzles 04:51:18 is that like Jeopardy! 04:51:42 lol 04:51:45 Dammit, github does not support git replace. 04:51:52 wouldn't it be more like um 04:51:58 that story about the philosophy professor 04:52:44 shachaf: how about: "you're somewhere on earth (a perfect sphere), and you walk a mile south, a mile west, and a mile north, and end up back where you started. Where could you be?" 04:53:16 an irritated cartogarpher's office 04:53:22 on a multidirectional treadmill 04:53:31 the bear is white because it's a polar bear 04:53:39 kmc: that's the obvious answer, but there are lots more 04:53:44 i think they have 2D treadmills 04:53:47 but i don't remember how they work 04:54:11 They 04:54:14 my dad got a book of thoe 'lateral thinking' puzzles for christmas and half of them were non sequiturs, it was beautiful 04:54:44 reminds me of that Voyager episode about Tuvok not getting a pun 04:55:36 or, half "lateral thinking" puzzle, half bad pun 04:55:44 in this episode of Veep they say that "kassi" is the Finnish word for "scrotum"; is that correct? 04:56:03 (spoiler alert) 04:56:05 copumpkin, a specific distance from the south pole 04:56:30 sounds like swedish word for shopping bag, maybe that word is actually imported from finnish 04:56:32 Or actually, I think there are a lot of possible distances 04:56:36 :) 04:56:40 Saw it in a book 04:56:49 oh don't cheat 04:56:51 figure it out :P 04:57:04 google translates it just as "bag" but it doesn't always have colloquial meanings 04:57:05 honestly the concept of "west" is socially constructed 04:57:11 Too late, I cheated over a decade ago 04:57:20 :) 04:57:25 who's cheating on what 04:57:28 slash whom 04:57:31 we're cheating on you 04:57:34 on youm 04:57:39 sgeo's cheating on compumpkin's polar bear 04:57:56 shachaf: didn't appreciate it? 04:58:16 I cheated on copumpkin's riddle by sending myself a telepathic message back in time to read a book that contains the solution. 04:58:25 how could you! 04:58:27 that's a good trick 04:58:53 I think youm should be the accusative of you 04:59:18 thou -> thee; you -> yee 04:59:30 no no 04:59:33 youm 04:59:44 who -> whom; you -> youm 04:59:55 copumpkin -> copumpkim 05:00:10 that's the hebrew plural of copumpkin 05:00:37 shachaf: you should transliterate 'copumpkin' into hebrew, hth 05:00:51 hthm 05:01:07 I can try 05:01:16 ah, here are a bunch of links about 2d treadmills: https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=388 05:01:20 what was the accusative of you? 05:01:25 youm 05:01:37 hth 05:02:15 whoa 05:02:20 http://www.virtuix.com/ seems to be a bowl covered in small rollers, plus a rail and waist collar that keeps you in place 05:02:33 i think maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrjrgBV8K0 is on a 2d treadmill 05:02:44 but maybe it's just a wide 1d treadmill 05:02:53 anyway it's a wonderfully creepy video 05:02:54 wide 1d, I'd say 05:03:02 kmc: wow, that's impressive 05:03:04 כפמקן 05:03:12 Maybe. Not sure. 05:03:48 A bit concerned about that mpk ... I really don't know Hebrew well enough 05:04:03 that video is vastly improved by the bee gees 05:04:10 -!- augur has joined. 05:04:35 hmm, youtube is now showing me ads about how finland's armed forces are better than sweden's 05:04:48 oh the bee gees one is an older petman. my mistake 05:04:55 (psyops to prepare for the invasion?) 05:05:10 how deep is your love hth? 05:05:53 stayin' alive, ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' aliiiiiiiiiIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiiive 05:06:46 I should sleep 05:16:29 I hear ya. 05:16:49 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:16:51 Hoping melatonin makes that possible for me. 05:19:04 good luck! 05:19:26 * kmc took melatonin and 5-HTP occasionally, never really felt a definitive effect 05:19:36 ymmv obviously :) 05:19:43 * pikhq has cause to believe it'll help rather a lot 05:19:54 Autism implies low melatonin, as does Prozac. 05:21:33 lately I've been having trouble sleeping, but for a more specific reason 05:21:38 which is that i'm angry / worried about specific things 05:22:07 it's balanced out somewhat by the fact that I'm an unemployed bum again and don't need to get up at any particular time 05:22:08 I'm sleeping less than once a day, so. 05:22:15 so I can afford to spend 12 hours getting 8 solid hours of sleep 05:22:30 * shachaf is pretty awful at sleep hth 05:22:50 (hi) 05:23:16 one one 05:23:22 man, sigstop is the best 05:24:08 I'm pretty sure 5-HTP is pretty strongly counterindicated though. 05:24:46 Yup, serotonergic. 05:24:53 Fucking terrible idea. 05:24:57 yeah, it's a serotonin precursor :) 05:25:02 serotonin = 5-HT 05:25:11 that's counterindicated because of the prozac? 05:25:16 Yes. 05:25:30 kmc is a 5-HT protagonist 05:26:03 Like all SSRIs, mixing serotonergic substances produces serotonin syndrome. 05:26:32 I'd prefer to avoid ER trips. 05:27:15 shachaf: maybe so 05:27:26 ugh, every time i hear another fact about ssris i dislike taking them more 05:27:42 Bike: Aside from the insomnia, it's been fucking great. 05:28:02 i'm apparently smilier but it's not really apparent to me 05:28:18 I've only been noticing recently. 05:28:36 But holy shit, I sound like I give a shit. :P 05:29:00 Well, there is one thing I did notice rather more quickly. 05:29:04 Anhedonia kinda stopped. 05:29:37 kmc: maybe you can move to sf and become my drugs dealer 05:29:42 -!- olsner has joined. 05:29:45 not for me, i guess 05:29:47 imo fuck depression 05:29:52 Yeah. 05:29:58 Anhedonia is, like, the worst thing. 05:30:42 sometimes i wonder if i should be on antidepressants 05:31:57 only one way to find out! talking to a medical professional 05:32:13 well i've been diagnosed with depression in the past 05:32:18 and i could have had antidepressants if i wanted them 05:32:49 Yeah, I was kinda... severe. 05:33:45 instead I took psychedelics like once a month 05:33:57 which I think helped things 05:34:03 but it's impossible to say for sure 05:34:19 well, antidepressants are also drugs 05:34:23 should be the same thing! 05:34:49 i'd be way more interested in my ssris if they were psychedelic. 05:35:22 i also consider it pretyt likely that actually taking psychedelics sould get me some pretty bad trips, though. life is hard for meeeee 05:35:48 yeah 05:36:08 Anhedonia is maybe the worst thing. 05:36:13 No, definitely. 05:36:44 Spending pretty much of your day just idly wasting all your time because that's all you have the capacity for? Ugh. 05:37:07 i used to feel pretty strongly about how bad not feeling strongly about things was, but 05:37:34 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:43:41 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 05:53:29 -!- olsner has joined. 06:02:09 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:04:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:14:25 -!- olsner has joined. 06:15:17 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 06:19:03 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:19:45 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:22:38 -!- dessos has joined. 06:25:51 Hello. I'm Leonard Nimoy. The following tale of alien encounters is true. And by true, I mean false. It's all lies. But they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is: No. 06:26:14 straightforward. 06:31:23 -!- olsner has joined. 06:37:38 kmc: Did Leonard Nimoy tell you that, or someone else, or you? 06:38:59 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:39:14 Leonard Nimoy told me 06:41:41 kmc: Personally? 06:41:44 no 06:41:51 via television 06:42:06 Many people have seen Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn, but only know them as lines on a map and don't know their significance or why they have the names they do. 06:42:26 Tropic of Calculus 06:42:40 it's true. i don't really care. probably some astrology thing 06:42:52 kmc: Are you going to make up something called "Tropic of Calculus"? 06:43:04 no 06:43:24 OK 06:44:16 Their significance is due to the Earth rotating on the different axis than it orbits the Sun. 06:44:31 I thought _Tropic of Cancer_ was a book. 06:44:43 shachaf: Maybe there is a book of the same name, too. 06:44:46 But it turns out that it's "not a book. It is a cesspool, an open sewer, a pit of putrefaction, a slimy gathering of all that is rotten in the debris of human depravity."[20] 06:45:19 common mistake 06:45:21 When I told someone that they are named after the astrological signs, they asked me why those specific signs. I know why; are you able to easily figure it out? 06:45:45 "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die." 06:46:22 the tropic of cancer is named after the great crab migration that occurs along that line every year. the tropic of capricon is named after Jesüs Capricorn, a Nicean cartographer 06:46:50 Bike: Yes; some people say they are named after the constellations, but this is only indirectly, because the signs are named after the constellations. 06:47:03 Bike: No, but nice to make a joke! 06:47:32 nice to make a joke, for sure 06:47:43 "The novel was subsequently banned in the United States until a 1961 Justice Department ruling declared that its contents were not obscene.[1]" 06:47:49 That's kind of bizarre. 06:48:06 naming my next band Jesüs Capricorn 06:48:09 They shouldn't ban those books anymore, hopefully. 06:48:09 If they had declared its contents obscene, would it not be unbanned? 06:48:34 kmc: You are going to make a next band? 06:48:54 NeXT band 06:49:02 my next band will be nothing like my ex-band 06:49:21 shachaf: US censorship law os silly. But stuff can be or used to be banned for obscenity, yeah. 06:49:23 kmc: How is your ex-band? 06:49:52 imo give me smut and nothing but 06:50:17 Obscenity restrictions have kind of died out by now though. 06:50:22 nice rhyme shachaf 06:50:36 do you have a band too 06:50:50 mnoqy: no it was a quote 06:51:00 oh 06:51:07 about obscenity trials????? 06:51:18 mmaybe they have a band 06:51:44 Hopefully you know of spherical geometry, and how you might have different axis designated on a plain sphere? 06:51:46 but now they're going to take it all away from us unless we take a stand and hand in hand we fight for freedom of the press 06:52:15 do i owe you ticket money 06:52:32 -!- olsner has joined. 06:52:49 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:52:57 shachaf: OK, yes, let's freedom of the press. There is a cover of 2600 with Mickey Mouse and stuff and saying the MPAA is making it restricted unless you stand up for your rights, etc 06:53:04 Bike: four million ticket moneys please 06:53:11 D: 06:53:43 In order to explain why the tropics are named after those two specific astrological signs, it would help to know about spherical geometry. Are you good enough at it? 06:54:09 No. 06:54:24 calculus three was like, two years ago man, i ain't remember that far back 06:54:46 It would be wise to remember that the same people who would stop you from listening to Boards of Canada may be back next year to complain about a book, or even a TV program. If you can be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you can be told what to say or think. Defend your constitutionally protected rights - no one else will do it for you. Thank you. 06:55:18 i like how boc's music videos are from shitty 50s films, goes well w/that 06:55:37 have you seen the video for Dayvan Cowboy? 06:55:43 that one is great 06:55:46 Well, maybe you can know that, on a plain (not rotating) sphere (here, the celestial sphere), you can designate the "equator" to be whatever great circle you want. In this case, there are two great circles, being the ecliptic and the actual equator. 06:55:46 i haven't seen many others 06:55:56 yeah, i tried to find the original footage from project excelsior, too, but no dice 06:56:07 i like the idea of just watching a fall for so long 06:56:14 yeah 06:57:27 These two great circles must intersect. One of the intersection points will be called 0. 06:57:30 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:59:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59guruVL4o 06:59:27 Using the equator, draw two parallel circles which have a constant latitude (called "declination" in astronomy), at the maxima/minima of the ecliptic. Now you have two more intersection points. At these two intersection points, the longitude calculated along the ecliptic will be 90 and 270. 07:00:46 Each astrological sign is 30 degrees, starting at Aries. (These are designated using "0 Aries" for 0 degrees past the start of Aries, "3 Taurus" for 3 degrees past the start of Taurus (which would be = 33 degrees), etc.) You would probably know the correct order of the signs, as you see in the newspaper. 07:01:24 Therefore, the ecliptic longitude of 90 degrees = 0 Cancer, and 270 degrees = 0 Capricorn. 07:01:42 That is why the tropics have the names they do. Is this OK? 07:04:49 zzo38: Why do you care so much about astrology? 07:04:55 I don't know many people who do, I think. 07:06:11 Many people are confuse and won't understand. That is why. 07:08:03 It is better to learn, rather than to be superstitious and not understanding anything about history and geometry and so on. 07:09:24 zzo38: Did you hear that CodensityAsk's new name is Free? hth 07:09:41 shachaf: Kind of. 07:10:24 They called Free what is based on a class rather than a (* -> *) type, and there is already the other thing called Free, too. 07:11:29 What do *They* know? 07:12:37 They probably know the similar things, but not exactly the same (a class rather than a (* -> *) type), and different name too. In mathematics, such things are common. 07:12:54 -!- olsner has joined. 07:13:28 It is far more related to Free than to Codensity. 07:13:44 If you have (CodensityAsk w) if w is a comonad, then you will make a MonadPlus. 07:14:06 shachaf: Yes, it probably is, I just didn't know what name to put, and "Free" is already use for something else. 07:14:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:15:18 I think it should make (Either x) to be a MonadPlus if x is a monoid, and if you make (CodensityAsk ((->) x)) then that is what it will make. 07:18:10 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:20:44 I do know one relate to the other Free though, that if it can be written like (f x -> x) then the (CodensityAsk w) can be made like (Free f). 07:22:19 However, not everything is like that. 07:22:50 For example, (CodensityAsk Predicate) makes something too. 07:25:40 (It makes a monad which has been made a different way before, in this case) 07:29:13 CodensityAsk Predicate makes http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/infinite-search/0.12/doc/html/Data-Searchable.html monad. 07:43:40 -!- olsner has joined. 07:47:02 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:49:40 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:49:41 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:57:42 Currying, 07:57:42 is a basic functional programming technique. 07:57:42 And in order to become a true JavaScript ninja, 07:57:42 what you really need to master is the art of 07:57:43 Functional Programming. 07:58:26 what 08:01:45 Sure, you can make currying even in JavaScript. 08:02:34 -!- olsner has joined. 08:02:56 zzo38: Are you a true ninja? 08:04:55 I don't know. 08:05:57 is that free verse 08:07:14 He's Maybe Ninja 08:07:36 that means he could either be *just* a Ninja or nothing at all. 08:08:03 17 Ways Agile Startups Use The Maybe Monad To Scratch An Itch 08:08:54 O.o 08:09:41 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:10:39 so 08:10:49 crazy kid on youtube eats the worlds hottest fuckin peppers 08:11:05 barely stops reviewing them for flavor 08:11:47 heres some dope eating this bhut jolokia pepper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZstObB4RVsQ 08:11:56 hottest pepper until 2011 08:12:25 here's this kid eat the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvJdXpyPma8&list=UUxWRubpdOSGxoNldIvPqsxw&index=3 08:14:24 https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCl5DV_XpguiI 08:14:30 look at all these people just flip the fuck out 08:14:33 and this kid is just like 08:14:34 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:14:54 ... yeah. mm. hm. thats a spicy pepper! 08:15:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:22:40 -!- olsner has joined. 08:32:06 Misreading of the day: "crazy kid on youtube eats the worlds hottest fuckin papers". 08:35:33 yeah eat those papers 08:35:38 yeah eat em real good 08:35:49 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:36:00 fizzie: kids a pro, man 08:36:04 jesus 08:48:35 -!- olsner has joined. 08:52:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:01:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:02:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:14:00 -!- olsner has joined. 09:22:25 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:35:01 -!- olsner has joined. 09:44:03 What happened to carrots and cucumbers 09:47:57 I thought it was carrots and peas. 09:51:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:57:38 She put the pea knish in her oven. 10:14:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:22:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:25:56 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:38:20 -!- olsner has joined. 10:40:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 10:41:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:53:24 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:54:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:56:28 `olist 10:56:32 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 11:00:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:05:59 -!- olsner has joined. 11:07:14 Danke 11:16:54 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:29:10 -!- olsner has joined. 11:36:02 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:49:22 -!- olsner has joined. 12:01:19 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:03:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:09:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:14:12 -!- olsner has joined. 12:19:19 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:26:06 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:27:26 -!- myndzi has joined. 12:32:19 -!- olsner has joined. 12:32:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:40:09 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:43:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:55:15 -!- olsner has joined. 13:04:42 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:09:11 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 13:18:35 -!- olsner has joined. 13:28:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:37:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:40:09 -!- carado has joined. 13:40:27 -!- olsner has joined. 13:49:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:01:57 -!- olsner has joined. 14:09:42 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:22:03 -!- olsner has joined. 14:29:55 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:42:10 -!- olsner has joined. 14:51:46 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:01:57 -!- conehead has joined. 15:04:55 -!- olsner has joined. 15:16:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:29:02 -!- olsner has joined. 15:40:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:46:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:53:06 -!- olsner has joined. 15:58:27 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:59:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:11:59 -!- olsner has joined. 16:16:13 -!- Bike has joined. 16:17:54 uh my battery is defying physics 16:18:31 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:19:31 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 16:21:01 cool 16:21:31 Battery 0: Discharging, 54%, 01:37:21 remaining 16:21:35 later: 16:21:36 Battery 0: Discharging, 50%, 02:31:54 remaining 16:22:37 Doesn't seems defying physics to me; it is 54% and then it says 50%. It is defying statistics, or something like that, I think. 16:23:06 elliott's referring to the estimated time remaining 16:23:36 Yes, I know, but that part is estimated. 16:23:40 it doesnt say estimated! 16:26:40 It's not actually talking about time 16:31:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:31:28 -!- olsner has joined. 16:39:11 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:49:42 update: 16:49:43 Battery 0: Discharging, 40%, 01:15:53 remaining 16:49:45 Battery 0: Discharging, 39%, 01:43:15 remaining 16:51:44 -!- olsner has joined. 16:53:18 isn't it pretty normal? 16:53:30 imo physics isn't normal 16:53:57 -!- olsner has quit (Client Quit). 17:00:02 elliott: In what way? 17:00:30 i am unsure 17:01:50 -!- Regis_ has joined. 17:05:18 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:09:13 -!- augur has joined. 17:14:47 -!- Regis__ has joined. 17:16:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:18:17 -!- Regis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:28:27 -!- Regis_ has joined. 17:30:12 -!- Regis__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:34:04 2D Languages make it really hard to calculate runtime :( 17:39:01 :D 17:42:26 and Beam is a really bad language 17:49:43 but otherwise it would be too easy 17:51:20 The only easy way to program is using the brainfuck2beam script :) 17:51:43 otherwise it starts getting freaky ugly pretty soon. 17:53:01 Sgeo_: Thanks! 17:53:21 You can't do comparision without sacrificing the memory pointer 18:36:10 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:43:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:00:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:01:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 19:08:53 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:10:53 -!- Regis_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:11:22 -!- Regis_ has joined. 19:14:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:17:50 -!- Regis__ has joined. 19:21:42 -!- Regis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:26:05 Jafet: do you read `olist 19:28:28 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 19:28:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:29:19 -!- Regis__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:33:01 -!- Bike has joined. 19:42:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:57:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:07:59 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:20:56 great, i learned something from sigbovik: if you do [x for x in 1,2,3] then xi s later bound 20:23:44 i vaguely thought sigbovik was all jokes? 20:24:07 Really? o_O 20:24:09 python is a joke, yes 20:24:28 You mean like x has a value after that? 20:24:30 elliott is a joke hth 20:24:39 oh, it does 20:24:41 In Python 2 20:24:43 Doesn't in Python 3 though. 20:24:57 oerjan: jokes written by CS people, so none of it's funny, just sad 20:25:03 ah. 20:25:12 do people use python 3? i seriously don't know 20:25:16 as opposed to biologist jokes 20:25:27 hey Bike tell us a biologist jokes 20:25:30 biologists don't have jokes, we just spray each other with owl shit 20:25:31 `addquote i vaguely thought sigbovik was all jokes? oerjan: jokes written by CS people, so none of it's funny, just sad 20:25:37 1038) i vaguely thought sigbovik was all jokes? oerjan: jokes written by CS people, so none of it's funny, just sad 20:25:43 * oerjan whistles innocently 20:25:58 This article lists the fictitious people, i.e., nonexistent people, which, unlike fictional people, are those somebody has claimed to actually exist. 20:26:09 told you 20:26:40 Bike: But if you do list(x for x in (1,2,3)), x isn't. 20:26:47 does it include people who started out fictional but were picked up by conspiracy theorists 20:26:55 fizzie: fantastic. 20:27:18 (Generator expressions apparently have different rules than list comprehensions, or some such thing.) 20:27:20 i wrote a little python 3 20:27:27 i think mostly no, people don't use it yet 20:27:37 Django added support for Python 3 in their latest version, released a few months ago 20:27:41 "experimental support" 20:27:55 Python 3: it's like Perl 6 for the Pythoneers? 20:28:03 not quite that bad 20:28:13 Python 3 has actual strings 20:28:19 That alone is a reason to use it. 20:28:31 python 2 doesn't? 20:28:36 Lumpio-: I don't think I'd put it that way -- the major change is just that they renamed str,unicode to bytes,str 20:28:37 nope 20:28:41 which is definitely a better name 20:28:58 but the new str type is a lot like the old unicode type 20:28:58 Yes, and went through the entire standard library to make sure everything reacts to unicode in a sane way 20:29:02 yeah 20:29:11 The mere fact that the default string is unicode drives people towards supporting it properly. 20:29:21 well non-unicode strings are still strings 20:29:21 for example if you open a file you now need to specify the 'b' mode if you want bytes instead of string 20:29:26 this paper involves pattern matching with random scope. nice 20:29:31 Lumpio-: I agree that it's an important change, I just think "has actual strings 20:29:35 " is a misleading way to describe it 20:29:39 ¬u¬ 20:29:52 nooodl: Well, not text strings 20:30:00 I think the word "string" evokes the idea of text in most people. 20:30:03 Well, most programmers at least. 20:30:07 https://python3wos.appspot.com/ well then 20:30:16 people need to start thinking of Unicode as /the/ standard and not some weird side thing that those unreasonable foreigners want 20:30:34 * Bike glances at zzo38 20:30:38 i think they do nowadays 20:30:43 i dunno 20:30:45 paul graham got flamed a bunch for not having utf-8 support in arc :P 20:30:50 though of course people will flame for anything 20:30:59 q: who cares about arc 20:31:02 "string" evokes the idea of "contiguous sequence of characters terminated by and including the first null character" in C programmers. 20:31:04 only english speaking people in silicon valley deserve to use hacker news 20:31:12 fizzie: of bytes, you mean 20:31:16 or 'char's 20:31:25 kmc: No, characters. That was a literal quote from the standard. 20:31:28 :( 20:31:28 also i think of unicode as default, i think. this is probably because i was exposed to way too much shift-jis before i even started programming 20:31:37 c_c 20:31:45 I'd like to do web stuff in python but python3 web stuff is still kind of not-there-yet 20:31:47 aren't "characters" just "values of the 'char' type", though 20:32:13 Yeah, that type name is not a good one so we should ignore that 20:32:15 As char is not a character. 20:32:17 and like.... mojibake is...... 20:32:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:32:32 Why would you shift-jis D: 20:32:34 nooodl: For those C programmers, sure. 20:32:37 That's awful 20:32:44 actually funnily enough in my shitty setup the name of my blog displays wrong because it's in russian, which is nice because it's the russian term for mojibake 20:33:26 Lumpio-: i think it's probably ok as long as it's actually indicated as such, so my computer doesn't try to display it as latin? 20:33:30 Lumpio-: I suppose due to whatever program you are working with, if it have to use Shift-JIS. 20:33:44 I myself use ASCII as default. 20:33:56 eurocentrist 20:34:12 (The reason isn't due to racism, but due to simplicity.) 20:34:30 toki pona is simpler than english. your move!!! 20:34:42 "but English is my native language, that's more simple you silly foreigners" 20:35:04 Lumpio-: I don't mean the *language*, I mean the *character encoding*. 20:35:20 which is unsuitable for most languages. 20:35:42 toki pona is cute 20:35:45 Including Fine and Proper(tm) English 20:35:52 For one ASCII doesn't have curly quotes. 20:35:59 Yes, I know, they say it isn't even completely suitable for English, but that is OK. 20:36:07 (in b4 somebody mentions an ASCII variant that does) 20:36:16 "people should just learn English if they want to use computers" *ignores that using computers is now a global necessity* 20:36:31 I use UTF-8 by default because it's the only sane encoding that does English, Finnish and Japanese. 20:36:39 kmc: learning English is a global necessity hth 20:36:44 Lumpio-: you could stop after "encoding" 20:36:46 People should learn to type fast if you want to use computers. 20:36:56 Oh I don't mind software being in English. Might all be in English for all I care. 20:37:04 But I'd like my content in multiple languages 20:37:08 yeah 20:37:10 u'oo\u0300o' # oòo 20:37:11 u'oo\u0300o'[::-1] # òoo 20:37:15 ^ this is still dumb imo 20:37:22 i can't fault small projects for not having the resources to translate the interface into 100 different languages 20:37:33 i can fault them if their code is so shitty that /users/ can't write content in their own languages 20:37:35 Lumpio-: I agree, but there are other ways to do it, too, depend what you are wanting to do, such as the software. Especially since even Unicode fails at some things. 20:37:40 why isn't o\u0300 considered to be one char 20:37:44 is this just a stupid thing python does 20:37:50 What's \u0200 20:37:50 it would be cool if they got like, the most used languages, at least. 20:37:52 0300 20:37:54 A combining diacritic? 20:37:55 combining ` 20:38:05 what is it now... english, french, spanish, arabic, mandarin, and... i think one more 20:38:07 Well that's a funny feature of Unicode. 20:38:11 hindi? 20:38:12 Presumably Python counts codepoints, not characters. 20:38:14 I'm sure Python has normalization/denormalization functions 20:38:18 oh yeah, probably hindi 20:38:23 yeah module unicodedata 20:38:25 Most languages count codepoints. 20:38:39 oh oops, it's russian, not french. 20:38:39 TeX has a way to allow entering curly quotation marks, and so on, even Greek alphabets, and you can write macros in TeX to allow it to read other encodings (including UTF-8), so you can make it read whatever you want even though it is ASCII by default. 20:38:49 according to 2010 ethnologue, anyway. 20:38:49 unicode strings shouldn't have reverse or length functions 20:38:50 probably 20:38:50 you can't say that ASCII is good enough for English when it doesn't even contain the currency symbol of England! 20:39:07 If writing a program to deal with things that use Shift-JIS, then the program will support Shift-JIS too in those cases. 20:39:22 then bengali, portuguese, malay, japanese, and THEN french 20:39:43 ...huh, there are more lusophones than francophones, that's not what i expected actually. 20:39:43 If a program that is mainly ASCII but is writing GD3 tags in VGM files, which are UTF-16 encoded, then this program can read UTF-8 input in those cases in order to convert to UTF-16, even if the rest of the program is ASCII. 20:39:53 wow i thought french was *huge* 20:40:06 bengali... 20:40:11 well eleventh place still means over a hundred million people. 20:40:19 er, 200 million. 20:40:26 Bike: All that means is that the population is too much. 20:40:34 Excuse me? 20:41:31 Excuse you? 20:42:05 Is this some Malthusian thing you're getting into 20:42:24 also there's not another Chinese until the 16th position, dang 20:42:36 I don't know what "some Malthusian thing" is. 20:43:02 sometimes zzo38 reminds me of an infocom text adventure parser 20:43:05 Malthus. British guy, usually comes up when people talk about "overpopulation" 20:44:11 Well, I am not British guy, but I am Canadian. 20:44:28 indeed. you are not british guy. 20:46:16 The Adventures of British Guy 20:47:05 can i be British 20:47:31 don't you have enough citizenships 20:48:22 ASCII's also missing þ ƿ ð ȝ ſ æ œ so how's you supposed to be writing proper English instead of some modern nonsense with it huh? 20:48:41 kmc: what does "enough citizenships" mean 20:48:53 fizzie: It is true, you can't, but it is still good enough for a lot of things, anyways. 20:49:16 -!- Regis_ has joined. 20:49:31 :D 20:49:34 You can write Toki Pona with ASCII too, but that doesn't make it English. 20:49:45 also a lot of people in English-speaking countries have non-ASCII names 20:49:47 It also doesn't make it Chinese. 20:49:54 like Tobias Fünke 20:51:01 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:51:17 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:51:19 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:51:24 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:52:49 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:52:53 kmc: fünky names don't count hth 20:54:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:54:53 Don't you know that ASCII already does some other things such as backspacing over a character to overtype it to make underlined or whatever, and to shift out to another character set, and so on? 20:54:56 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:55:08 how many systems implement that zzo38 20:55:20 it's going to be so fucking cool when i get an internet connection that isn't made of spit 20:55:25 also if you include codes to shift to a different character set, then you're not sending just ASCII anymore 20:55:26 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:55:28 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:55:33 SPIT 20:55:34 and the result is probably much much worse than UTF-8 20:55:44 which is also a superset of ASCII but without locking shifts 20:55:54 i don't know why i'm arguing with zzo38 about this though 20:56:00 maybe next I'll argue about why HTTP is superior to Gopher 20:56:02 * Bike watches a billion errors pop up in his uninterruptible download 20:56:50 kmc: Linux implements the shift-out and shift-in codes to make degree sign and a few other things. 20:57:17 yeah ISO 2022 codes for the DEC ACS are still pretty widely implemented, unfortunately 20:57:33 but who still has backspace for combining characters 20:57:45 Well, I think they are good, and I still use them when applicable. 20:58:05 ISO 2022 is pretty complicated 20:58:09 and it's not stateless like UTF-8 20:58:54 Well, the subset used by Linux works a bit better. And it isn't true that UTF-8 is stateless, due to Arabic text shaping and RTL and so on. 20:59:04 yeah, true 20:59:17 UTF-8 as an encoding for codepoints in the Universal Character Set is stateless 20:59:38 but if you move from UCS to Unicode then you now have a bunch of character properties and instructions on how to display the characters 20:59:48 i don't think ISO 2022 has a better story for bidi though... 21:00:10 if you shift into an Arabic codepage you will still need to know how to join up characters 21:00:31 kmc: Well, I use the very simple subset, not the compilcated one, anyways. 21:01:06 Actually, as an encoding of numbers UTF-8 still depends on multiple bytes and keeping a state between them, but it is easy to rewind, and UTF-8 is a pretty good way to do this in a way which is compatible with principle of extended ASCII. 21:01:30 I am just saying that the actual character set it is used with (Unicode) is not very good; like you wait, you now have a bunch of character properties and instructions on how to display the characters, and that kind of stuff. 21:03:26 However, some programs might read UTF-8 and not care about actual Unicode characters; for example, VGMCK reads UTF-8 only as numbers and then converts them into UTF-16, and doesn't actually care what characters anything represents, except for surrogates, and ASCII codes which aren't overlong. 21:03:40 mm 21:03:47 a lot of programs are like that really 21:03:58 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 21:04:00 Yes, there may be. 21:04:07 -!- Regis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:04:29 -!- aloril has joined. 21:05:09 SQLite does this too, although using a bit different algorithm (which still works for valid UTF-8); in most cases you can still turn it off by casting to blob but there are some functions where this doesn't work and I think this can be considered a bug. 21:05:25 zzo38 has such a great way of thinking about things 21:05:29 zzo38++ 21:05:38 zzo39 21:09:40 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 21:16:11 Overlong encodings happens to be the only way in VGMCK to write GD3 tags containing trailing ASCII spaces (although usually there is no need to do that anyways). 21:21:04 Does any SQL allow you to make anonymous tables, triggers, views, etc, and to make overrides on views which can be stacked together? 21:29:00 i don't know what you mean by 'anonymous tables' but maybe nested select is like that? 21:30:38 No, I mean a table that actually stores data in the database and can be referenced by a value in a table, but you can create them without having to specify a name and conflict with existing tables. Similar idea with triggers, views, overrides, etc. 21:31:22 SQL doesn't normally have overrides on views, though, I think (I mean overriding to read the view; overriding to write them is already implemented by triggers) 21:33:54 -!- augur has joined. 21:42:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Night). 21:48:41 http://i.imgur.com/wbFVRHb.png 21:51:42 yes 21:51:52 wow i was going to say yes too 21:51:53 but forgot 21:51:55 http://www.oneweirdkerneltrick.com/ http://sigbovik.org/2013/ 21:52:09 yo does anyone know about: xmonad, dzen2, getting it to highlight urgent workspaces properly 21:52:50 nobody knows 21:53:31 thmc 21:53:35 more like THC amirite 21:53:53 yes 21:54:29 I just had a wonderful idea for a language :D 21:54:36 It should essentially be C# 21:54:48 But the compiler will detect redundancy and pointless casts 21:55:02 If there is too much of that, it should delete itself and the IDE 21:55:23 what's redundancy 21:55:57 if (foo == true) { bar = true; } 21:55:59 That kind of thing 21:56:20 why's that redundant 21:57:23 you're all shit 21:57:53 D: 21:59:11 bar|=foo; Is it OK? 22:08:34 the compiler should simply suggest: did you mean "if ((foo == true) == true) " ? 22:09:59 beginners often do if (x) { return true; } else { return false; } 22:10:31 kmc: I have seen that; I have even seen: if (x) { return true; } else { return true; } 22:10:36 nice 22:10:41 x == true is pretty common too 22:10:54 well in some languages that's not equivalent to 'x' 22:11:11 nobody cares about that though 22:11:16 It also depend where it is used, such as use in a boolean, etc 22:11:17 also when it isn't equivalent to x it's the wrong thing to right 22:11:17 :/ 22:11:23 you should say x == 1 instead 22:11:25 since clearly x isn't a boolean 22:11:26 the wrong thing to right. 22:11:32 good 22:11:45 you can have multiple things treated as true, including but not limited to booleans 22:11:47 i see x == True a lot in haskell even 22:12:07 in which case you might want to check that x is a true boolean, as distinct from checking whether x is true 22:12:20 you know this so i said it. 22:12:27 well i don't believe in variables having several possible types 22:12:30 you said what everyone was thinking 22:12:34 it's not part of my religion 22:12:51 what about tagged unions!! or something i don't care. 22:12:59 i actually didn't even think of that possible use before you mentioned it 22:13:11 so i guess i have indoctrinated myself well 22:13:17 lol 22:13:25 if it's a tagged union you wouldn't say (x == true) :p 22:13:33 Even in Haskell? Yes, I have seen it a bit in a Haskell code too, which is even worse than making it in a C code. 22:13:35 wouldn't you elliott. WOULDN'T YOU 22:13:37 ALSO booleans are still the devil 22:13:44 why 22:13:51 do you use trivalent logicks 22:13:52 they discard information 22:13:57 all the booleans? they are legion 22:14:02 see e.g. http://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/boolean-blindness/ 22:14:35 oh right, my browser can't render text right now 22:14:38 god i suck at computers 22:14:51 would you like me to paste the whole thing into #esoteric 22:14:56 yes plz 22:15:06 any objections 22:15:08 No, why don't you download it using a command-line? 22:15:17 sorry Bike can't do it 22:15:35 ;_; 22:15:37 Can't download it using a command-line? 22:15:39 whatever i think i get the idea 22:15:48 if you have x == 4 you want that to be a proof that x equals 4 or something 22:15:49 is my guess 22:15:51 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:15:54 well not really 22:16:01 ok well: fuck. 22:16:06 it's more like often you don't want to separate the test and resulting computation in the first place 22:16:30 like "case m of Nothing -> ...; Just x -> ...x..." is better than "if isNothing m then ... else ...(fromJust m)..." 22:16:58 If it is a test in a compiler and using optimization, then it can be a proof that x equals 4, possibly. 22:17:00 QUALITY PAPER™ /The view from the left/™ shows this even applies to things like numeric comparisons and subtraction in a dependently-typed setting 22:17:10 elliott: Why don't you just use the "maybe" function which is for that purpose? 22:17:41 case...of has nicer syntax when you would have a lambda for the just case 22:17:44 *J 22:18:24 ok well that's not really disagreeable, and thus boring, so there 22:18:29 disagreeenting 22:18:45 imo 22:18:49 you'd be surprised how often people disagree with it 22:19:12 ALSO why do your precious lisps have this stuff all over the place then????????? 22:19:50 no i wouldn't be, remember that perl guy i mentioned? he said he didn't get maybe because you should just check if the thing is in a table before extracting it (re a hopefully obvious example) 22:20:09 ALSO because are you six, or rather why are you humorously acting six 22:20:29 pattern matching?!??!??? useless academic nonsense imo 22:20:50 man my browser is still fucked. this sucks. stupid ubuntu 22:21:03 Bike: pretty sure you'll find that lisp sux 22:21:11 Bike: also has that guy even heard of a race condition lol 22:21:27 (race conditions: ALSO THE FAULT OF BOOLEANS) 22:21:42 that was the point at which i decided to stop caring even more than i'd already stopped 22:21:54 double stopped. stoppppped. 22:22:09 sto"poop"ed 22:22:17 yes 22:22:40 whoa i'm kinda enlightened by booleans being bad here 22:23:03 i <3 absolutist principles 22:23:26 imo remove Bool from haskell :-) 22:24:11 i also hate strings, even unicode strings ~getting controversial in here~ 22:24:16 this one weird old trick elliotts don't want you to know 22:24:24 i like strings. they're good for pumping lemmas. alt: what 22:24:36 more like pooping lemmas 22:24:44 still doing good with the six year old thing?? 22:25:00 still doing good 22:25:53 do you want streams or something instead 22:25:55 When dealing with “computers”, at least their physical manifestations and not some abstract mathematical idea, there is exactly one type, a boolean bit, and exactly one operation: NAND (Not AND). For those unfamiliar with this principle, I suggest the wikipedia article on NAND logic. 22:25:58 i love this comment 22:25:58 elliott: so I read the article you pointed to and I don't get it 22:26:08 Koen_: ok 22:26:10 nooodl: lol beautiful 22:26:22 Bike: well i think it's largely an artefact of history that "sequence of codepoints" is a thing people care about 22:26:27 take that, MATHEMATICIANS with your fancy "numbers" 22:26:35 rather than like "sequence of characters with X, Y and Z formatting" 22:26:42 oh uh i'm used to the latter 22:26:44 like .txt is a pretty weird file format, really 22:26:49 it is what i think of when i think "string" 22:27:01 you think of something with formatting when you think of "string"?? 22:27:03 i don't believe you 22:27:15 I thought .txt had no formatting at all 22:27:16 well... okay not formatting. but characters, not codepoints. 22:27:38 i mean it's kind of a deeply ingrained thing 22:27:40 like if I open TextEdit and create a new file and write "hello" and save it as hello.txt and then cat hello.txt I'd get "hello" 22:27:54 given that strings of this kind are ubiquitous at every level of unix and networking protocols 22:27:54 nooodl: where's that comment from 22:28:02 though technically lisp characters (whoa man!!) can (don't nowadays) have formatting and fot info in them. 22:28:04 kmc: from elliott's article on booleans 22:28:10 Koen_: yes that is because terminals are biased to strings 22:28:14 i didn't write that article :P 22:28:26 unfortunately lisp characters turned out to be mildly terrible, so. 22:28:30 kmc: from the artile elliott pointed to a few moments ago 22:28:44 type theory is a lie because computers are made of bits 22:28:44 got it 22:28:55 i love how many ignorant statements from programmers boil down to "Yeah! Fuck abstraction!" 22:29:09 like all the complaining about how software isn't written in assembly anymore 22:29:12 and it's just too easy to make stuff 22:29:17 i'll show you my ab straction *flexes* 22:29:49 well yeah computers are dumb really I mean electricity going "on" and "off"? I have that in a simple lightbulb I don't need a freaking computer 22:30:23 Koen_: if you were hoping i could shed light on the meaning of the article then i will need more detail as to what you did not understand about it btw 22:30:56 Koen_: Well, in a computer it goes automatically and faster. 22:31:06 keep this in mind, koen. 22:31:24 elliott: I don't know it just felt empty you know? 22:31:32 even dijkstra made the error of conflating booleans and propositions btw 22:31:35 which is unfortunate 22:31:45 this article really left my soul wanting more. 22:31:50 kmc: It depend much of what computer; if writing a program only for a specific computer then assembly language is OK (and this is still done), but often you will make a portable program in C, or whatever, or use other programming languages for other purposes. 22:32:15 thanks for clearing that up 22:32:33 zzo38: yeah well i'll practice hitting the switch back and forth you'd be amazed what I can do with my fingers 22:33:03 hey you know what's a cool electromechanical system? fingers *winks seductively at elliott* 22:33:22 never seen em fing 22:33:35 i wanna learn z80 assembly so i can program cool stuff on my ti calculator 22:33:37 -!- Regis_ has joined. 22:34:13 nooodl: Yes, that would make the program faster than the built-in programming language, and doing some additional things such as grayscale instead of only black and white 22:34:34 it's cool how thanks to twitter i can see the same person say the same thing in two different places, rapidly 22:34:44 :D 22:34:55 It isn't only Twitter that does that. 22:34:55 Bike: are you hitting on me 22:34:58 "hm that was a cool thing, i should put it on my twitter" "hm that was a cool thing, i should discuss it on irc" 22:35:13 elliott: i am hitting on your histamine complex 22:35:16 It also isn't only IRC that does that. 22:35:30 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:35:50 You can do that on any computer. 22:36:30 #I_do_it_in_real_life_and_I'm_not_ashamed 22:36:56 koen sits at his computer, pronouncing apostrophes. 22:37:19 it's a breathtaking activity 22:38:51 the "true hashtag way" to do things is drop all spaces to make sure nobody can read your bullshit 22:39:09 (instead of substituting underscores) 22:39:52 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:42:07 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:43:10 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 22:44:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:45:00 man. asm is actually really easy 22:45:21 ha, ha 22:45:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:46:46 I have never written program for TI calculators in ASM, but I have written the Famicom Hangman game in 6502 assembly language. 22:46:52 well. more like "simple" 22:46:58 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:47:05 Yes 22:47:06 ha, ha 22:47:59 well also make sure it isn't x86? I hear that's bad 22:48:23 Modern x86 is really complicated and stupid. 22:48:31 much simpler to have conditionals on every instruction or w/e pick an architecture 22:48:36 Older x86 is a bit OK. 22:48:56 doesn't it have 7 character long mnemonics or something 22:49:22 yes. that had better not be your idea of "bad" though. 22:50:37 The mnemonics aren't a machine code. 22:51:40 -!- Regis__ has joined. 22:52:24 well if they'd be all like 'jump_eq' that would be nice, but I'm remembering stuff like 'cdhlrxz_' 22:52:57 I know those are both pretty awful examples 22:54:24 x86 is super complicated, but if you are writing assembly by hand, you can use a pretty simple subset 22:54:57 it's more complicated if you need to do gnarly systems programming, high performance SIMD code, or read the output of a compiler 22:55:06 -!- Regis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:55:35 If you writing it by hand, you can also use things that some compilers won't do such as BCD. In 64-bit mode they removed BCD but added a bunch of junk. 22:58:02 I wonder if there are any assembly dialects where the "human" code looks like a modern programming language. like you'd write "a = 5;" instead of "lda #5" 22:58:20 They're called "high level assemblers". 22:59:33 maybe you've all seen, but http://theworstroom.tumblr.com/ 22:59:35 so does nooodl get to learn about that thing i learned about the other day 22:59:36 is fantastic 22:59:40 kmc: If you're generating it with a compiler, you can also use a pretty simple subset! 22:59:51 shachaf: yes, but not if you want best performance 23:00:19 The thing that makes x86 so complex is just that there's so much of it. 23:00:49 pikhq: Mainly, yes. 23:00:58 not today, I'm going to bed right now, my arm is starting to hurt from holding my phone :( 23:01:04 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 23:01:39 mostly yeah 23:01:42 technically I've already gone to bed I just need to sleep in it hth 23:01:43 -!- tswett has joined. 23:01:43 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 23:01:43 -!- tswett has joined. 23:02:17 being CISC, there are some ways in which x86 assembly is easier to write by hand 23:02:20 than other architectures 23:02:34 Ahoy. 23:02:49 So I guess I may write a thesis about context-free languages. 23:02:52 What with that being the original design intent. :) 23:02:59 Just a thought. 23:03:17 The original design intent was that it be easy to write by hand? I guess we should abandon it. 23:04:13 the heyday of RISC has come and gone, though 23:04:31 having lots of simple, wide instructions isn't so good when memory bandwidth is everything 23:05:01 i hate architectures 23:05:03 tswett: It turns out that it happens to have a side benefit in modern times. 23:05:06 every single wonnuvem 23:05:10 that's redundant, elliott 23:05:17 well 23:05:18 elliott: what about @ 23:05:20 i like the reduceron 23:05:21 x86 tends to have smaller code, which leads to better performance. 23:05:32 You hate everything. 23:05:37 shachaf: @ runs on x86-64 because i'm too cheap to buy an fpga 23:05:37 That said, it's not a design intent or anything, so in principle it could be improved upon. 23:05:44 and clock speeds have stopped increasing, but transistor density is still going up 23:05:46 Bike: There are lots of things elliott doesn't hate. 23:05:53 Bike: The _The View From the Left_. 23:05:54 nope 23:05:56 s/The/Like/ 23:06:01 so you can more and more afford complicated decode logic and stuff 23:06:09 it's /The view from the left/ you shachaf you 23:06:29 elliott: Why is it /s and not _s. 23:06:31 kmc: And some really *quite* specialized instructions too. 23:06:33 Or do you mean the capitalization? 23:06:35 kmc: it's cute that clock speeds are going down 23:06:39 Have you ever heard of "worse-is-better" programming? Simplicity is the most important consideration, and simplicity of the implementation is a bit better than simplicity of the interface. 23:06:39 shachaf: i meant the capitalisation as well as the // 23:06:48 I guess you're right on the capitalisation. 23:06:49 Like SSE-4.2's CRC opcode. 23:06:55 But it's surely _s? Why would it be /s? 23:06:57 ARM is getting very popular but it's also getting less RISCy 23:07:01 because //s look more italic 23:07:10 Shame it's using a somewhat less popular polynomial, but eh. 23:07:12 But italicization is the devil? 23:07:30 Modern ARM has a lot of stupid stuff, which is one reason why I wanted to make the computer out of ARM2. 23:07:35 _The view from the left_ 23:07:37 There. 23:07:38 el diablo 23:07:41 yo 23:07:48 why can't i switch workspaces 23:07:55 YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 23:07:58 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 23:08:00 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 23:08:15 http://zzo38computer.org/img_13/screen1.png 23:08:30 zzo38: gopher: url plz thx 23:08:50 hellllllllp 23:08:55 no 23:09:34 help 23:09:54 gopher://zzo38computer.org/Iimages/13screen1.png 23:11:00 zzo38: Thanks. 23:11:09 I don't understand that picture. 23:11:09 ok seriously 23:11:10 help 23:11:13 how do i fix xmonad 23:11:19 ion3 hth 23:11:57 shachaf: It is a computer game (MegaZeux). 23:12:11 chrome doesn't gopher :( 23:12:24 neither does firefox 23:12:31 more like firefucks 23:12:38 kmc: True, but you can use other standalone gopher clients. FireFox will with a extension "OverbiteFF". 23:12:53 (There is a extension for Chrome too but it won't work.) 23:12:58 kmc: curl does 23:13:03 hth 23:13:31 shachaf: Yes, or just use echo image/13screen1.png | nc zzo38computer.org 70 > screen1.png or something like that 23:13:49 let us do that 23:13:59 3 File not found 23:14:06 it's iamges 23:14:07 images 23:14:12 kmc: Yes, I misspelled it. 23:14:21 wow gopher is complicated 23:14:28 i'm going back to http 23:14:29 got it 23:14:46 It is only complicated because you don't understand it. 23:15:03 $.ajax("gopher://zzo38computer.org/Iimages/13screen1.png") 23:15:19 web framework of the future 23:15:51 src/audio.c:48:26: fatal error: vorbis/codec.h: No such file or directory 23:15:54 this game is hard 23:16:03 apt-get install * 23:16:20 it would be nice to have a debian system with every package 23:16:23 never have to worry about installing again 23:16:33 also, the biggest menus. 23:17:13 I think if you type the name of program that isn't installed, some computers will tell you what the proper package is to install that program. 23:17:22 zzo38: OK, now what? 23:17:35 zzo38: Load World 23:17:38 What do I do? 23:18:02 MegaZeux is hard 23:18:03 shachaf: Select a world file; I will provide some. 23:18:12 Or make your own (push F8 to enter the editor). 23:18:29 OK, provide me some. 23:18:32 I have my own fork of MegaZeux, which is somewhat outdated though, but you can install both if you want (I have done). 23:18:51 I have them only in HTTP at this time, but my server does support headerless HTTP which means you can download them without HTTP. 23:19:01 They are also compressed meaning you need to unzip them. 23:19:14 i don't want a fork..... 23:19:18 Here is one: http://zzo38computer.org/mzx1/potionconf/potion_of_confusing.zip 23:19:28 Here is more: http://zzo38computer.org/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ascmzxto.zip 23:19:37 -!- Regis_ has joined. 23:19:48 shachaf: You don't need a fork, but I find the fork has a much improved editor. 23:20:03 Can I run those without the fork? 23:20:21 Yes, you can, but http://zzo38computer.org/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ASCMZXII.ZIP requires the fork. 23:20:43 zzo38: Uh, I have a problem. 23:20:53 My right arrow key and End key are broken. 23:20:58 (Even the forked version normally uses compatibility mode, so even though I used the forked version to make these world files, they can be played in any version.) 23:21:04 Ever since I spilled some liquid on my laptop. 23:21:09 shachaf: Well, too bad, the game requires the right arrow key. 23:21:15 Can I still play potion_of_confusing without them? 23:21:16 :-( 23:21:25 potion_of_confusing sounds really good. 23:21:27 You do need the right arrow key, but not the end key. 23:21:31 Can you give me an hjkl-compatible version? 23:21:31 -!- Regis__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:21:36 Connect another keyboard. 23:21:43 Can't. 23:21:48 Any other options? 23:21:58 shachaf: No, due to how MegaZeux is working. However, you can try to modify the source-code of MegaZeux to accept HJKL, but then some other games will fail. 23:22:43 OK. 23:22:54 Does potion_of_confusing use hjkl for anything else? 23:23:02 Super Mega Zeux 23:24:44 No, this game doesn't. 23:25:20 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 23:27:16 I think you can also use a joystick, though. 23:27:43 Did you try that? 23:28:02 If you give an API a URL, and you can see content at that URL, would you expect the API to interact with the URL in some way? 23:28:05 Try to retrieve it? 23:28:08 Use it? 23:28:20 -!- Regis_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:28:27 I did, and based on that assumption, decided that some code was wrong 23:28:30 And argued as much 23:28:42 Then... worked out that my assumption was wrong. 23:28:58 In fact, the code looks at the URL, takes the last part, and sends it somewhere else entirely 23:28:59 zzo38: How do I patch megazeux? :-( 23:29:07 Do you happen to have a patch readymade? 23:29:08 Making code that looks like it shouldn't work, work completely 23:29:28 shachaf: No, I don't. Modify the source-codes yourself (I think in game.c or game2.c) 23:30:27 shachaf: just use an on-screen keyboard? 23:30:28 zzo38: I tried changing keysym.h but it didn't work. 23:32:34 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: gone). 23:34:33 mnoqy: oh 118 is also good 23:35:39 shachaf: game.c near "if((get_key_status(keycode_internal, IKEY_UP)) &&" 23:36:52 zzo38: Right, but I swapped IKEY_UP with IKEY_k 23:37:26 Hmm. 23:37:31 Maybe it got TOO SWAPPED. 23:37:36 -!- Bike has joined. 23:41:56 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:44:31 -!- kmc has set topic: We drank all the throwing wine | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 23:48:53 zzo38: How do I make it work? 23:49:01 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:49:03 I changed the values in event.c and it still doesn't seem to. 23:50:43 zzo38: I *really* want to play potion_of_confusing... 23:51:51 Oh, wait. 23:51:56 I should have been messing with event_sdl.c!!!!!!!!!! 23:53:15 s/I/i/ 23:53:40 zzo38: It works! 23:55:13 @ask shachaf no 23:55:13 Consider it noted. 23:55:33 http://theworstroom.tumblr.com/post/50906877201/east-elmhurst-queens-450-00-kiralik-salon this seems like a p. good deal really 23:55:55 wow i was just thinking that i should find that tumblr again now that my browser isn't shit 23:56:42 how does anyone live in nyc 23:56:47 it seems impossible to me 23:57:03 wow i... new york... 23:57:04 zzo38: I'm in a big blank room. 23:57:04 shachaf: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 23:57:06 I seem to be stuck. 23:57:09 What do I do? 23:57:43 elliott: well i'm pretty sure like fourteen billion people do, unless maybe they're lying. 23:58:06 my impression of new york is that there are toom any buildings and they are all gigantic and claustrophobic and everything is way too high up and also it's too bright and noisy all the time 23:58:10 imo the worst 23:58:22 f you, urban density is great 23:58:32 there's a reason people are willing to pay outrageous money to live there 23:59:18 pretty sure it's actually the worst and terrible and unbearable 23:59:23 i would suffocate 23:59:43 elliott is an unevolved human who can not yet breathe asphalt 23:59:45 nyc is nice to visit 23:59:48 n.b. i might be both a bit claustrophobic and scared of heights and also awful at dealing with noise so i'm not the most objective judge here 23:59:56 and also i've never been to nyc ever 23:59:59 but i'm pretty sure i'd hate it