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00:41:58 <kmc> "Dr. James M Peebles, M.D, M.A. Ph.D., and 91 years old, states whiskey is key to a long life, although he advises against eating meats."
00:42:19 <kmc> also <3 these line drawing characters
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00:44:03 <kmc> copumpkin: relative of yours?
00:44:21 <copumpkin> maybe, but I haven't heard of him :)
00:44:27 <copumpkin> my grandfather is 100 and has whiskey everyday
00:44:49 <shachaf> isn't it kind of whisky to do that at his age
00:46:16 <kmc> also this was from @CenturyAgoToday so I guess he's 191 years old now?
00:46:58 <shachaf> kmc: how often do you have whiskey
00:47:17 <copumpkin> that guy has too many degrees, anyway
00:47:29 <shachaf> Record heat wave in the Midwest leads to five deaths in Chicago as temperatures reach near 100 Fahrenheit (38 C).
00:47:32 <shachaf> speaking of too many degrees
00:48:11 <kmc> shachaf: not v. often
00:48:24 <kmc> i bought a bottle of whiskey a while back and finished it and haven't purchased another
00:48:33 <kmc> right now drinking Stone Smoked Porter
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00:50:41 <shachaf> copumpkin should write us a sonnet
00:50:59 <shachaf> and/or read that that story
00:51:19 <kmc> sing us a song you're the copumpkin
00:51:33 <shachaf> and/or figure out how to make monad transformers work with negative-position things
00:51:58 <kmc> did you try comonad cotransformers
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00:53:00 <shachaf> hey what do you think of class Functor m => Monad m where monad :: Free m a -> m a
00:54:24 <kmc> data Free = ... ?
00:54:50 <shachaf> data Free f a = Pure a | Free (f (Free f a))
00:55:15 <shachaf> it's a free monad "like a free monoid except in the category of endofunctors hth"
00:55:35 <shachaf> In fact you can compare this with class Monoid m where mconcat :: [m] -> m
00:56:40 <kmc> good times
00:56:47 <shachaf> Free is a "p. fun type imo" imo hth
00:57:13 <kmc> we may be overdoing it with the "#esoteric house style"
00:58:27 <shachaf> Soon all conversation will be encoded in strings of quotes, imo, hth
00:59:11 <shachaf> kmc: "did you see http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/operational-monad.html btw"
01:08:14 <shachaf> Oh, so Program f = Free (CoYoneda f)
01:08:24 <shachaf> Which I think edwardk said somewhere.
01:08:33 <zzo38> I have also said Free (CoYoneda f)
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01:08:58 <zzo38> So I know what Free (CoYoneda f) is.
01:10:04 <zzo38> It is, if f is a GADT, the monad can have an operation which calls one of the constructor of a GADT like a command that returns a result, kind of.
01:10:12 <zzo38> I might not have explained it very well.
01:10:35 <shachaf> Well, f ought to be a Functor, oughtn't it?
01:10:37 <kmc> that does sound similar to 'operational'
01:11:07 <zzo38> shachaf: No. (CoYoneda f) is a Functor even if f isn't. (If f is a functor, then CoYoneda f = f)
01:11:32 <zzo38> Example: data F :: * -> * where { GetChar :: F Char; PutChar :: Char -> F (); };
01:12:08 <shachaf> Right. But then it's not the same as Free F.
01:12:41 <zzo38> Correct. However, then Free F isn't a monad since this F cannot be a functor.
01:12:54 <zzo38> But, Free (CoYoneda F) is a monad since (CoYoneda F) is a functor.
01:13:54 <shachaf> copumpkin: So doing a DList-style thing on Kleisli composition gives you something which behaves a lot like Codensity.
01:14:15 <shachaf> Can you get Codensity Monad instance out of it?
01:16:41 <shachaf> zzo38: What about Free (Yoneda f)?
01:16:51 <shachaf> Or maybe Cofree (Yoneda f) or something?
01:17:20 <zzo38> I don't know if that makes anything of any use.
01:29:47 <kmc> edward snowdenhands
01:31:36 <shachaf> Is there any place where Yoneda is better than CoYoneda?
01:32:10 <zzo38> Maybe in some cases; each is capable of different things. However, I do not think of a specific example at thist ime.
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01:52:34 <kmc> you're a quick one
01:52:56 <kmc> it's a true story tho
01:53:46 <shachaf> i saw a freight train on the caltrain tracks and it was good
01:54:27 <shachaf> zzo38: What are some cofree things other than cofree comonads?
01:54:42 <kmc> did it whoosh by
01:55:03 <shachaf> are you talking about your joke or the train
01:55:18 <shachaf> the train leisurelily whooshed by
01:55:56 <shachaf> consider the leisurelilies
01:56:16 <kmc> shachaf: have you read _Player Piano_ by vonnegut?
01:56:30 <kmc> today i was told to read it
01:56:33 <kmc> seems like a p. good idea
01:56:51 <shachaf> i have a bunch of kurt vonnebooks to read "but not that one"
01:56:59 <shachaf> maybe i should read that one
01:57:22 <shachaf> another one that i don't have:::: _The Sirens of Titan_
01:58:50 <kmc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Junction_from_Mass_Ave.JPG there is a nuclear reactor in this photo
01:58:56 <kmc> don't you think that should be mentioned in the description
01:59:24 <kmc> the unassuming blue dome w/ the smokestack
01:59:33 <kmc> one of the last remaining HEU research reactors in the country
01:59:34 <copumpkin> I guess that was a stupid question
01:59:37 <shachaf> hmm can i have a nuclear reactor
01:59:51 <copumpkin> shachaf cannot be entrusted with one
02:02:49 <kmc> you can have one
02:05:37 <copumpkin> Imma see if I can light things on fire with it
02:06:05 <zzo38> I put the sequent calculus of sequent calculus into the computer, now.
02:06:23 <zzo38> Can you please check the sequent calculus of Turing machine to see if I have made any mistakes in it?
02:06:51 <zzo38> A proof is actually related to a halting problem!
02:07:03 <zzo38> Now I can understand why!
02:07:22 <kmc> zzo38.gödel.moed++
02:07:54 <shachaf> kmc: p. sure gödel didn't prove things equivalent to the halting problem hth
02:08:07 <kmc> close enuf
02:12:55 <kmc> send pocky
02:13:39 <zzo38> It is provable if and only if it halts.
02:17:09 <Phantom_Hoover> i think i'm spoiled for intelligent criticism after finding that sci-fi blog the other day
02:18:02 <zzo38> I am unable to make the sequent calculus of nim game. (I tried, but it doesn't work properly.) Do you know how to do this?
02:18:48 <zzo38> However, I can do the subtraction game (which is related to the nim game).
02:21:15 <Phantom_Hoover> lesson of the day: nobody can be bothered to do intelligent long-form critiques of homestuck
02:21:41 <zzo38> Can you use shorthand?
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02:22:20 <shachaf> my hands are the same length
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02:34:17 <shachaf> what if growing a mustache is a defense against people drawing mustaches on pictures of you
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03:58:20 <shachaf> Maybe Cofree (Yoneda f) is useful.
03:58:25 <shachaf> data Coop f a = a :< (forall b. (Coop f a -> b) -> f b)
04:00:22 <shachaf> instance Functor (Coop f) where fmap f (x :< k) = f x :< (. (. fmap f)) k
04:00:36 <shachaf> instance Comonad (Coop f) where { extract (x :< _) = x; duplicate w@(_ :< k) = w :< (. (. duplicate)) k }
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04:22:32 <kmc> The Beer, Burritos, and Bonghits Diet
04:28:07 <kmc> photo of me in a lab coat on the cover of the book
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04:51:10 <HackEgo> Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
04:51:23 <shachaf> `run >'indexed monad' echo 'Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors.'
04:51:40 <shachaf> Didn't that thing do antipluralization?
04:51:46 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ else echo "$1? ¯\
04:51:49 <Bike> `? indexed monad
04:52:02 <shachaf> `run mv 'indexed monad' wisdom/
04:52:08 <HackEgo> Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors.
04:52:28 <shachaf> 21:51 <dolio> The other meaning is monad on an indexed category.
04:52:53 <Bike> not worth listening to, clearly
04:53:01 <shachaf> `run echo 'Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category' >> wisdom/'indexed monad'
04:53:07 <HackEgo> Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. \ Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category
04:55:01 <Bike> TCS 110: Object-oriented Programming for Artists
04:55:03 <Bike> Introduction to object-oriented programming for artists. Focus on understanding the metaphors and potential of object-oriented programming for sound, video, performance, and interactive installations.
05:03:16 <shachaf> kmc: oh man #haskell is so great right now
05:03:36 <shachaf> there's this one person who regularly tells beginners that Applicative and Monad instances should disagree
05:03:44 <shachaf> now everything is an argument about that
05:05:22 <kmc> and praytell what are the ops doing about this
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05:05:55 <kmc> i was promised an iron fist
05:06:07 <shachaf> if you join #haskell you can have a temporary iron fist
05:06:15 <shachaf> but only if you use it well
05:06:24 <Bike> it's more like a few dozen iron fists, tied to one another
05:06:26 <shachaf> I don't think this person is actually malicious, though I don't know.
05:06:28 <kmc> i'm drunk so, no
05:06:33 <kmc> 'malicious' is not really the standard
05:07:05 <shachaf> Whatever the standard is it should be extensional, with the goal of making the channel a pleasant place.
05:07:47 <shachaf> But malice is an easy heuristicthing.
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06:48:26 <shachaf> Hmm, so the decision of whether to use i or -i is like the decision of which way the rows and columns go in a matrix.
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06:50:16 <Taneb> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
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10:56:44 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
10:57:31 <Taneb> Sgeo, can you start tagging the `slist with something to sort of describe the update without being too spoilery so I can see if I've already read it?
10:57:38 <shachaf> no, Sgeo, stop making slist updates and start making olist updates
10:57:48 <shachaf> 22:26 < theresa> [A6A6I1] ====> (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=008191)
10:57:51 <shachaf> 22:26 < theresa> new: 247 pesterlines (ROXY: 86); 5 images; 5 pages
10:57:53 <shachaf> why don't you get a bot like that in here
10:59:18 <shachaf> (i wish.......................................)
10:59:33 <mnoqy> (maybe it's off hiatus.....................................)
11:00:05 <shachaf> remember atrus?????????????????????
11:00:20 <shachaf> and myst and the other ones
11:02:23 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, it is off hiatus
11:02:36 <shachaf> Sgeo...................................... . . . . . . . . . . . .
11:02:41 <Sgeo> "Edit: Megapause over. Snipped everything except the awesome HTML table below because of how sweet it is. "
11:02:50 <Taneb> Yeah, this is the fourth update since the hiatus
11:03:41 <shachaf> mnoqy: ok what book on linear algebra should i read
11:04:05 <Taneb> The Stainless Steel Rat by Harry Harrison
11:04:53 <Taneb> Totally about linear algebra
11:04:59 <Taneb> Not at all about rats
11:05:05 <shachaf> mnoqy: well i just ordered one
11:05:09 <shachaf> so i hope you name that one
11:05:27 <Taneb> Actually, Stainless Steel Rat is less about rats than Of Mice and Men is about mice
11:05:37 <shachaf> someone described it as being unspoilt by applications
11:05:46 <mnoqy> yes that does sound good
11:06:57 <mnoqy> iv never really had a linear algebra book . . . iv had a linear algebra course and there was sort of a book there but the course went a lot more in depth than the book and most of the exercises werent from the book [they were more interesting than the book exercises]
11:07:54 <mnoqy> anyway whats the book you got
11:08:35 <mnoqy> how am i supposed to answer that because im not going to
11:08:44 <Taneb> A course is a course, of course, of course
11:09:26 <mnoqy> it was good though...unspoilt by applications
11:09:31 <shachaf> well you could start with your social security number and just go from there
11:09:56 <mnoqy> well the book wasnt really used much at all
11:10:03 <mnoqy> so what does it matter...
11:10:13 <Taneb> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
11:10:20 <shachaf> was the book spoilt by applications
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11:10:26 <mnoqy> i forget but i dont think so
11:10:35 <Taneb> Was it "Latin Beyond GCSE"
11:11:05 <mnoqy> it was writing latin
11:11:25 <Taneb> shachaf, was yours Writing Latin?
11:11:33 <shachaf> mnoqy: was it "really" writing latin or are you just trying to get Taneb off your case
11:11:41 <mnoqy> shachaf: you got me...
11:11:59 <shachaf> you're so transparent, mnoqy
11:12:06 <shachaf> Taneb: maybe..........................yes(no)
11:12:33 <Taneb> I am going to do a linear algebra exam now
11:12:51 <Taneb> I hope predicative datives come up
11:12:56 <Taneb> I like predicative datives
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11:13:34 <shachaf> mnoqy: so what's with all the moustaches on super mega lately
11:14:07 <mnoqy> you mean the most recent super mega??
11:14:14 <mnoqy> yeah that has a moustache in it
11:15:55 <shachaf> mnoqy: whoa dude are linear transformations like concatenative languages
11:17:42 <shachaf> mnoqy: i actually meant the way "composition" and "application" are kind of similar......
11:18:38 <shachaf> dude it's totally a good sense maker
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11:58:33 <elliott> 01:58:50: <kmc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Junction_from_Mass_Ave.JPG there is a nuclear reactor in this photo
11:58:36 <elliott> 01:58:56: <kmc> don't you think that should be mentioned in the description
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17:44:03 <kmc> elliott: it is now
17:54:24 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/DdEe4Aai take a wild guess
17:55:31 <fizzie> I'm thinking kmc's middle name.
17:58:02 <elliott> kmc: did you generate that account name so people can't find out your wikipedia secrets
17:58:29 <elliott> wow [[fork bomb]] has managed to not grow 5000 examples since i deleted 90% of them
17:58:41 <elliott> Revision as of 05:56, 29 May 2013 (edit)
17:58:41 <elliott> (Only 1 DOS example is needed.)
17:58:45 <elliott> Latest revision as of 01:39, 2 June 2013 (edit) (undo)
17:58:46 <elliott> (Undid revision 557293529 -- This is needed for context and removing it as content is deletionism at its finest.)
17:59:07 <Fiora> elliott: did it have a "fork bombs in popular culture" section?
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17:59:33 <elliott> Fiora: with the obscurity of some of the languages people added fork bombs in, it practically qualified as one :P
17:59:39 <elliott> fork bombs in unpopular culture
17:59:44 <fizzie> "Fork bombs and their relation to knife bombs" section.
18:00:54 <Fiora> it's the weirdest, most jarring thing when I'm like reading a wikipedia article on some topic like, I don't know, "solid state disk", and then at the bottom there's like "in episode 57.45 of the big bang theory, some character made a joke about a solid state disk"
18:02:13 <fizzie> It doesn't say that in [[Solid-state drive]].
18:02:23 <Fiora> I-I was just giving a hypothetical example!
18:02:45 <kmc> if big bang theory gets to 57 seasons then we are truly doomed
18:02:57 <kmc> also there should be a show Big Band Theory
18:02:59 <fizzie> Oh, I thought that was just a fractional episode number.
18:03:21 <kmc> well there is such a band
18:11:12 <fizzie> "This is Jackie from ECO Energy Engineering company, a leading LED Lighting manufacturer in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">China</st1:country-region></st1:place>." This spam is semantic!
18:12:11 <fizzie> (It can reach fabulous brightness at low watt.)
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21:47:49 <`^_^v> that feel when a senior dev submits a O(n^3) solution to a O(n) problem
21:47:55 <`^_^v> good thing for code review
21:48:47 <Taneb> Who are you and how do you pronounce your nick
21:49:46 <`^_^v> some things are not meant to be pronounced
21:50:05 <zzo38> OK, where does your *username* come from?
21:50:13 <`^_^v> it comes from a smiley face, duh
21:50:25 <zzo38> No, I mean the username, not the nickname.
21:52:58 <kmc> dont scare :(
21:56:12 <shachaf> kmc as well as other people
21:56:32 <zzo38> That isn't everyone, though.
21:58:59 <olsner> the O(n^3) solution probably makes the real problem fairly well obfuscated, must be great for "Job Security"
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21:59:26 <shachaf> twist: every O(n) solution is an O(n^3) solution
21:59:33 <olsner> the more work you do overall, the more places to hide useful work
22:00:34 <kmc> zzo38 counts
22:00:36 <kmc> he counted to 38 at least
22:02:03 <FreeFull> A O(n^3) solution might be better than O(n) if the difference in constant factors is big enough, and n is small enough
22:02:36 <Taneb> But when is n ever small
22:02:48 <Taneb> n is getting bigger every day, FreeFull
22:02:52 <Taneb> Moore's law and that
22:02:55 <shachaf> let n be, like, a really big number
22:04:02 <Taneb> Like 17 or something
22:06:29 <ion> let n be the biggest number
22:06:50 <Taneb> ion, as I said, 17
22:08:07 <FreeFull> Constant factors can be pretty big
22:08:53 <ion> Not as big as 17, though.
22:15:37 <zzo38> Doesn't n mean the amount of data to process or something like that?
22:26:00 <olsner> yes, but we don't seem to agree on exactly how much data that is
22:27:12 <zzo38> Well, if we don't know what the problem is, how can we know how much data that is?
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22:27:35 <ion> I thought we agreed on 17.
22:29:38 <elliott> I like how lambdabot was using 6% CPU for a second
22:29:52 <elliott> wow, lambdabot uses a lot of CPU in general
22:30:22 <nooodl> do you regret your purchase
22:30:35 <Fiora> elliott: maybe it stores karma as a unary coe?
22:31:01 <fizzie> fungot: How much CPU does your sentience matrix use?
22:31:01 <fungot> fizzie: think cps in common lisp.
22:31:04 <elliott> Fiora: you know, given the quality of some of lambdabot's code I wouldn't rule it out
22:31:14 <fizzie> fungot: So... not much, then?
22:31:15 <fungot> fizzie: i said that you suggested a different implementation strategy for heap synchronization ( namely optimistic concurrency)
22:31:35 <fizzie> It's beyond human ken, I think.
22:32:25 <Fiora> elliott: or maybe like. it queries every single command ever sent in order to count up the karma
22:32:30 <Fiora> and instead of storing karma it stores a chatlog
22:32:35 <Fiora> so it's O(number of messages logged)
22:32:43 * Fiora can't imagine something much worse? XD
22:33:16 <elliott> Fiora: i wanted a bot that determined karma by determining all the times anyone's ever mentioned your name and then using some kind of modified spam filter to classify the references as positive or negative
22:33:39 <fizzie> (Apparently the current iteration of fungot has, in the last six days, used 16 seconds of CPU time. If I read ps right.)
22:33:40 <fungot> fizzie: to use the utf8 egg.
22:34:09 <fizzie> Or is that 16 minutes? I don't know what the unit of that column is.
22:34:25 <elliott> 16 minutes seems like an awful lot for fungot
22:34:25 <fungot> elliott: that was absurdly involved. that's true.
22:35:06 <Fiora> elliott: I remember doing sentiment analysis in AI class; it was amazing how inaccurate it was
22:36:01 <fizzie> I remember the bits about semantics in a NLP class. They were all so crude.
22:36:10 <ion> My Little Pony class
22:37:00 <Fiora> MLP analysis sounds a lot easier; you could probably identify most ponies by their color scheme.
22:37:21 <fizzie> It's all pony-invariant descriptors and whatnot.
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22:42:18 <fizzie> Huh, SURF features are patented too? I was thinking (i.e., hoping) SIFT was the exception rather than the rule.
22:42:35 <ion> Everything is patented.
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22:55:15 <shachaf> higgledy-piggledy / bifunctoriality
22:57:38 <olsner> I don't run any IRC bots but X seems to use about 33 minutes per day here
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23:00:43 <shachaf> kmc: good story about the money machine
23:01:57 <kmc> i thought so
23:02:05 <kmc> http://www.thoughtcrime.org/stories/money-machine/
23:09:46 <Fiora> those things seem designed basically just to embarrass the person inside of them :/
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23:16:44 <kmc> our school had us sell magazines and wrapping paper and whatever, but the funds went specifically towards a class trip
23:16:51 <kmc> i'm sure the company took a nice cut, though
23:17:32 <elliott> is this some... americant hing
23:17:37 <elliott> i have no recollection of anything like this happening to me
23:17:43 <elliott> it sounds incredibly american at least
23:17:46 <kmc> most likely yes
23:18:09 <shachaf> i have no such recollection either
23:19:02 <fizzie> We sold toilet paper to fund class trips in grades 1-6.
23:19:28 <kmc> i assume your prices were not competitive with wal-mart
23:20:04 <fizzie> Counting delivery from the nearest wal-mart, perhaps.
23:20:21 <fizzie> They were reasonably large units.
23:20:33 <fizzie> Like, maybe in bunches of 40 rolls?
23:20:50 <fizzie> So perhaps the pricing was reasonably competitive.
23:21:38 <fizzie> Also there's a magazine full of stories and stuff written by school kids, that I think we also sold.
23:22:08 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kev%C3%A4tp%C3%B6rri%C3%A4inen
23:22:54 <fizzie> Anyway, you got some tiny rewards for selling that thing.
23:23:43 <fizzie> We never had a money machine, though.
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