00:00:05 <Phantom_Hoover> <Fiora> it's kind of interesting to see how like, game memory usages seem to have stopped growing at around ~2GB for the past few years
00:00:10 <Sgeo> When you're used to a development cycle of constantly trying the program, seeing it work or not work, fixing and restarting, it could be annoying
00:00:14 <tswett> One of the factors begins with 645041.
00:00:34 <tswett> Also, at least one of the factors ends with 1, 3, 7, or 9.
00:00:55 <tswett> HEY HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT WAS MY NUMBER
00:01:12 <Phantom_Hoover> (i can't say it's entirely a bad thing, i've heard stories about pc gaming in the early 2000s)
00:01:34 <Fiora> Phantom_Hoover: yeah but like, I'm thinking of PC games mostly and I notice they all run 32-bit binaries <.<
00:01:37 <Fiora> and cap out at 2GB or so
00:01:56 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:02:00 <Fiora> ... does... does knowing the first digits of a factor actually help any factoring algorithms?
00:02:27 <Bike> "the best algorithm"
00:02:36 <Fiora> I'm pretty sure there's no small prime factors though
00:02:42 <Fiora> I mean, after running this much ECM on it
00:02:58 <tswett> I would advise you not to try to factor it.
00:03:22 <tswett> Because it's extremely unlikely to work, if I've done my homework correctly.
00:03:28 <tswett> I guess I might have done my homework incorrectly.
00:03:33 <Fiora> that's what the other 7 cores doing the general number field sieve are for!
00:03:42 <tswett> The number you're trying to factor is 35 844 088 ... 908 841, right?
00:03:45 <Bike> eighth core is otome games
00:03:59 <elliott> Bike: is eighth, like, a helpful eight
00:04:19 <tswett> If you wish to learn what the factors are, I suggest bribing me.
00:04:22 <Fiora> ECM says it'll take about 8000 curves to catch an 80-digit factor, though I'm guessing it's the worst case and they're both 100 digits
00:04:31 <elliott> wow that's actually how you spell eighth. weird
00:05:06 <ion> How did you think it’s spelled?
00:05:09 <tswett> Yup, looks like they're both 100 digits.
00:05:27 <Fiora> did you generate them or something with like a probable prime thing?
00:05:41 <elliott> Fiora is going to be driven by obsession to factoring them and will accidentally break all standard encryption algorithms in the process
00:05:48 <Fiora> geez I'm just playing around -_-
00:05:50 <tswett> There's some large prime number generator online.
00:05:53 <Bike> Fiora: how long does it take to factor 8616460799
00:05:53 <Fiora> I have no idea how the actual math works
00:06:00 <elliott> that's why it'll be an accident!
00:06:26 <Bike> fiora driven by obsession to understand what all this type theory crap is, accidentally proves ZFC inconsistent
00:06:31 <tswett> Then I used some ECM applet to test whether or not one of them was prime.
00:06:33 <Fiora> I'm not that good okay ._.
00:06:40 <tswett> It said that yes, it's prime.
00:06:48 <tswett> Then I tried to test the other one, but it wouldn't work.
00:06:51 <Fiora> Bike: I think using gnfs to factor that would be like using a nuclear weapon to sterilize a needle
00:07:22 <elliott> `addquote <Bike> Fiora: how long does it take to factor 8616460799 <Fiora> Bike: I think using gnfs to factor that would be like using a nuclear weapon to sterilize a needle
00:07:26 <Bike> yea you'll probably have to use millicycles as your unit
00:07:27 <HackEgo> 1063) <Bike> Fiora: how long does it take to factor 8616460799 <Fiora> Bike: I think using gnfs to factor that would be like using a nuclear weapon to sterilize a needle
00:07:39 <Bike> also now i want to sterilize a needle like that
00:07:42 <Fiora> I think the constant factor in gnfs is atrociously awfully terribly bad
00:07:45 <Bike> i mean. standard procedure is already alcohol fire
00:08:17 <Bike> (you all know The 8616460799 Story i hope)
00:08:35 <tswett> The 8616460799 Story, hth.
00:08:38 <tswett> Weren't you listening?
00:09:34 <Bike> "This became known as Jevons' Number and was factored by Derrick Norman Lehmer in 1903[13] and later on a pocket calculator by Solomon W. Golomb.[14]" hah.
00:09:44 <elliott> did he tell people to fuck off if they asked what the factors are
00:09:48 <elliott> "no. I'm taking this to the grave"
00:09:57 <Fiora> ... lehmer. golomb
00:10:04 <oerjan> <tswett> Trial division. <-- i think it can also help that algorithm i vaguely recall based on x^2 - y^2 = (x+y)(x-y)
00:10:05 <Fiora> is that... Lucas-Lehmer Lehmer? and Golomb code Golomb?
00:10:22 <oerjan> (which is particularly good when the factors are _close_)
00:10:57 <Bike> Fiora: golomb yes, lehmer no
00:11:10 <elliott> oh, that's the guy who wrote the coal thing.
00:11:11 <Bike> the lehmer you're thinking of is the son of the lehmer here.
00:11:20 -!- dvorakbot has joined.
00:11:24 <Bike> 1903 was a long time ago, dude!
00:11:32 <Bike> like, twenty years at least
00:11:40 <Bike> Oh, that's a nice feature.
00:11:57 <tswett> Fiora: no it's Lucas–Lehmer hth
00:12:00 <elliott> also invented economics or whatever.
00:12:23 <Bike> economics more like stupidomics
00:12:33 <tswett> Wait. "Published factorizations include those by Lehmer (1903) and Golomb (1996)." So how many different published factorizations are there?
00:12:38 <Bike> is the coal thing known elliott
00:12:46 <Bike> tswett: i think it kind of loses its novelty after a while.
00:12:55 <tswett> I can think of eight ways of factoring it into integers alone!
00:12:57 <Bike> tswett: It's also "published" in taocp2, though.
00:13:18 <Bike> people sometimes use it as an example now, because jevons was kind of amusingly wrong.
00:13:33 <tswett> So how can you factor 8616460799 using a pocket calculator?
00:13:57 <Bike> pretty easy on a TI.
00:14:02 <elliott> Bike: the coal thing, you know.
00:14:05 <Bike> Žerovnik, J. "The RSA Cryptosystem in 1873." Obzornik Mat. Fiz. 43, 116-118, 1996. <-- i think i have to check this one out.
00:14:08 <tswett> How about on an EL-5806S?
00:14:11 <Bike> elliott: well i mean is it like well known.
00:14:15 <Bike> tswett: i hope that's an asteroid
00:14:23 <elliott> Bike: well I know about it. I read the Wikipedia article once
00:14:30 <tswett> Yes, I use an asteroid as a pocket calculator.
00:15:10 <Bike> @google "The Coal Question"
00:15:10 <Fiora> tswett: isn't lucas-lehmer only for mersenne primes though?
00:15:11 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coal_Question
00:15:11 <lambdabot> Title: The Coal Question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
00:15:29 <dvorakbot> U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O (ꙮ)
00:15:36 <Fiora> and it's a primarily test, not a factoring thing, I thought...
00:15:37 <kmc> hi dvorakbot
00:15:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: he was all like "WHOA, GUYS, peak oil" in the 1800s
00:15:55 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas%E2%80%93Lehmer_primality_test ?
00:16:28 <kmc> > text "$u $"
00:16:35 <tswett> dvorakbot: come on, you were supposed to respond to that.
00:16:37 <kmc> > text "hi dvorakbot"
00:17:02 <tswett> Most of the commands can only occur at the beginning of a line.
00:17:08 <tswett> Lemme look for exceptions.
00:17:30 <tswett> > text "dvorakbot, help"
00:17:43 <dvorakbot> tswett: Hi, I'm a bot. Say ".commands" to me in private for a list of my commands, or see http://inamidst.com/phenny/ for more general details. My owner is tswett.
00:18:14 <tswett> Uh, that ought to be working.
00:18:32 <Bike> elliott: http://papers.snaffbox.org/php/main/index.php you should tell me if this sucks. thx in advance
00:18:47 <dvorakbot> tswett: Sorry, didn't understand the time spec.
00:19:20 <elliott> Bike: looks a bit unpolished
00:19:37 <dvorakbot> tswett: Sorry, didn't understand the time spec.
00:19:43 <tswett> Not sure what that's supposed to do.
00:19:52 <dvorakbot> most used commands: u (3), beats (2), at (2), help (1), hello (1), commands (1)
00:20:00 <kmc> $u fuck yeah
00:20:00 <dvorakbot> kmc: Sorry, no results for 'fuck yeah'.
00:20:06 <tswett> Congrats on being a power user.
00:20:16 <tswett> Also, lemme turn on the Dvorak commands.
00:20:17 <dvorakbot> U+01DF LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON (ǟ)
00:20:24 -!- dvorakbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:20:45 <tswett> dvorakbot is dead, never to return.
00:21:00 <Bike> this paper apparently doesn't exist
00:21:02 <tswett> Let us celebrate the life of him/her/it/em.
00:21:07 -!- dvorakbot has joined.
00:21:16 <tswett> dvorakbot, you were always such a good friend to us.
00:22:07 <tswett> Hey, who wants to be a card?
00:22:27 <tswett> Ooh, I wonder what $val and $ngc do.
00:22:44 <tswett> $val http://en.wikipedia.org/
00:22:45 <dvorakbot> tswett: http://en.wikipedia.org/ is Abort
00:23:46 <Bike> $val mother of monsters
00:23:54 <tswett> kmc: congratulations, you're Card 1.
00:23:59 <Bike> $val google.com
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00:24:42 <dvorakbot> "Thu, 27 Jun 2013 00:24:41 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil
00:25:25 <tswett> Don't have too much fun.
00:25:41 <tswett> Unless you're in #dvorak-game.
00:25:46 <ion> $val elliott
00:25:54 <ion> elliott: FYI, HTH.
00:26:59 <dvorakbot> oerjan: http://oerjan.nvg.org is Invalid (1 error)
00:27:05 <oerjan> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
00:30:01 <kmc> what is this dvorak game
00:30:04 <kmc> and what's the only winning move
00:30:59 <ion> Not to play?
00:33:29 <Phantom_Hoover> they really were great at writing meaningless political bullshit
00:33:50 <elliott> kmc: the only winning move is AOEUIDHTNS
00:33:51 <kmc> season 2 of Veep just ended
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00:55:15 <kmc> can't compare, but it's very good
00:55:25 <kmc> i mean it's hard to compare the two
00:55:52 <Bike> how do they compare to yes minister
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01:41:16 <Fiora> http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-email/ oh geez XD
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01:46:07 <shachaf> Fiora: Google could use some SEO!
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01:46:09 <shachaf> http://www.bing.com/search?q=search+engine
01:47:01 -!- elliott_1 has changed nick to elliott.
01:47:04 <shachaf> Wow, not even on the front page of https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=search+engine
01:47:10 <oerjan> elliott_1: who are you and what have you done... darn
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01:50:26 <elliott> lambdabot already reconnected.
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01:53:20 <oerjan> slithering through the channels
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02:14:32 <Bike> http://blog.wolfram.com/2013/06/26/is-there-any-point-to-the-12-times-table/ this is cool + totally unnecessary
02:15:47 <elliott> I can't do mental multiplication at all
02:16:58 <shachaf> elliott: i bet you learned the × table all the way to 2!!
02:17:12 <shachaf> (Take that, factorial jokesters.)
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02:51:34 <myndzi> any of you guys possibly know of a mathematical study of tower defense type games?
02:52:03 <Bike> in what respect
02:53:05 <myndzi> there is a maximum amount of damage you are capable of inflicting at any point
02:53:15 <myndzi> a maximum amount of resources you are able to have acquired
02:55:21 <Bike> how about "Mathematical methods of organizing and planning production", kantorovich
02:59:48 <myndzi> interesting, will have to read in more depth
02:59:56 <Bike> http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/quickfix/1/9/4/188194.jpg?v=2 dark secrets of the NSA
03:25:51 <Bike> http://preview.reuters.com/2013/6/12/exclusive-snowden-as-a-teen-online-anime-and-1 i'm gonna die.
03:28:25 <elliott> Reuters viewed the website on Tuesday and contacted former company employees for comment. On Wednesday, the website had been taken down.
03:29:16 <Fiora> presidential elections in ~20 years will be pretty amazing
03:29:27 <Fiora> all the candidates will have embarrassed themselves terribly on like, facebook and stuff as kids
03:29:35 <Fiora> they might even have, like, a deviantart
03:29:41 <Fiora> where they drew sonic fanart
03:30:35 <Bike> gotta go fast, a slogan for the future
03:32:46 <Fiora> "I stand by my motto today, as I did then"
03:32:54 <Fiora> "we gotta go fast, towards the future."
03:34:46 <Bike> "and thirdly, tifa would TOTALLY do aeris. no further questions"
03:53:11 <Sgeo> http://www.markturner.net/2010/05/09/the-compelled-certificate-creation-attack/ this attack was worth people writing a paper about it?
03:53:53 <Sgeo> Oh "We reveal alarming ev-
03:53:54 <Sgeo> idence that suggests that this attack is in ac-
03:57:25 <Sgeo> "Thus, any web browser that depends upon Mi-
03:57:25 <Sgeo> crosoft's Trusted Root Store (such as Internet Ex-
03:57:25 <Sgeo> plorer, Chrome and Safari for Windows) ultimately
03:57:25 <Sgeo> trusts 264 dierent CAs to issue certicates without
03:57:25 <Sgeo> warning, although only a handful of them are listed
03:57:25 <Sgeo> in the operating system's user interface."
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05:14:28 <kmc> https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1011817_10100526803867865_340272139_n.jpg SF city hall
05:14:38 <shachaf> well there may be "long term crises""" going on but we'll see about that
05:14:55 <shachaf> city hall more like pretty hall
05:20:42 <fizzie> City hall more like Crayola box hall.
05:27:12 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park new england is weird
05:27:56 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park shachaf is weird
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05:45:56 <lexande> Bike: new jersey \not\in new england
05:49:54 <kmc> Action Park Shachaf
05:52:49 <kmc> Bike: wht about it
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06:36:43 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
06:54:15 <kmc> Bike: the Tank Ride sounds fucking awesome though
06:59:15 <kmc> "Employees at the park used to like eating at a nearby snack bar with a good view of [Surf Hill], since it was almost guaranteed that they could see some serious injuries, lost bikini tops, or both"
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07:27:27 <shachaf> mnoqy: how's mac lane going
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07:51:54 <HackEgo> Freenode: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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13:11:56 <Taneb> Help I was just sarcastic on Facebook and now I feel bad
13:14:04 <shachaf> Taneb: stop feeling bad hth
13:14:47 <shachaf> (if you don't pay you'll feel bad about not paying me)
13:15:22 <Taneb> I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how not bad I feel
13:15:50 <shachaf> looks like i overdid it "oops"
13:21:37 <shachaf> Taneb: How's `olist going?
13:21:54 <shachaf> Taneb: Does thread count matter?
13:51:04 <Taneb> Dear god I have 14 channels on autojoin on this server alon!
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13:58:18 <elliott> wtf I only have 11 channels
14:04:28 <Taneb> ##fiora, #0x10c-dev, #0x10c-galaxy, #agda, #esoteric, #esoteric-minecraft, #happs, #haskell, #haskell-lens, #haskell-web, #pbsideachannel, #snapframework, #yesod
14:06:16 <shachaf> Taneb: You should turn channel hiding off!
14:08:19 <elliott> why the hell are you in #happs
14:08:27 <shachaf> Taneb: Uh, maybe it's mode -i?
14:08:33 <elliott> correction why the hell are you in half of those
14:08:46 <Taneb> elliott, when I am bored I like to throw Haskell web frameworks at eachother
14:09:04 <Taneb> That accounts for 4
14:16:04 <shachaf> Now everyone can see your full channel list.
14:16:11 <shachaf> One day you'll grow up to be ski.
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15:04:03 <Fiora> Bike: http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/tls/biases.pdf http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/tls/ geez RC4 keeps getting new attacks
15:05:15 <Bike> i uh don't even know what that is
15:05:28 <Fiora> the stream cipher! like the one in WEP and stuff that everyone uses
15:05:44 <Fiora> the one that's really fast and isn't very good
15:06:08 <Fiora> and like now they finally have an attack that works on RC4 in general
15:06:49 <Fiora> like with WEP it was a problem with badly chosen IVs, not RC4 itself
15:07:31 <Fiora> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRIME_(security_exploit) <-- ooh. this one is fun too
15:07:50 <Fiora> taking advantage of data compression and chosen-plaintexts to leak information about the information in the rest of the packet
15:08:01 <Fiora> because the data compression tells you "what size is the packet after it gets compressed"
15:08:17 <Bike> not just 'crime', 'CRIME'
15:09:22 <Fiora> I love the acronyms they make XD
15:09:42 <Fiora> "Why are the attacks called "Lucky Thirteen"?
15:09:46 <Fiora> In Western culture, 13 is considered an unlucky number. However, the fact that the TLS MAC calculation includes 13 bytes of header information (5 bytes of TLS header plus 8 bytes of TLS sequence number)
15:09:50 <Fiora> is, in part, what makes the attacks possible. So, in the context of our attacks, 13 is lucky - from the attacker's perspective at least. This is what passes for humour amongst cryptographers."
15:11:22 <Bike> i'm kind of distracted atm because i found out they can make transparent mouse brains now
15:11:34 <Fiora> transparent... mouse... brains @_@
15:11:57 <Bike> it involves removing all the fat from all the cells and replacing it with a hydrogel mesh
15:12:02 <Bike> apparently that's a thing we can do?!
15:12:27 <Fiora> and that... won't... kill it?
15:13:30 <Bike> oh, no, i'm pretty sure it's dead. but you don't need to slice it up and also it looks sci-fi as hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBeuxiAif9E
15:13:57 <Bike> you can trace individual neural projections and stuff
15:14:19 <Bike> the same guy invented optogenetics, so, i hope he gets his nobel soon
15:14:37 <Fiora> awww. transparent living mouse brains would have been a cool thing
15:15:30 <Bike> it's still really weird seeing like a photo of a transparent mouse brain
15:15:39 <Bike> since you can... see through it
15:16:19 <Bike> «Dr. Chung said the hydrogel forms a kind of mesh that permeates the brain and connects to most of the molecules, but not to the lipids, which include fats and some other substances. The brain is then put in a soapy solution and an electric current is applied, which drives the solution through the brain, washing out the lipids. Once they are out, the brain is transparent, and its biochemistry is intact, so it may be infused with chemicals, lik
15:16:56 <Bike> «On his laboratory bench, he said, “I have a transparent liver, lungs and heart.”» possibly a wizard?
15:16:56 <mnoqy> cuts off at "infused with chemicals, lik"
15:17:14 <Bike> Once they are out, the brain is transparent, and its biochemistry is intact, so it may be infused with chemicals, like antibody molecules that also have a dye attached, that show fine details of its structure and previous activity.
15:22:05 <Fiora> "infused with chemicals" sounds like some strange alternate-reality marketing copy
15:22:47 <Fiora> infused with a variety of powerful chemicals, Shampoo Tox will make your hair softer, silkier, and atomized"
15:28:26 <fizzie> Infused with a variety of powerful magicks.
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18:04:36 <kmc> http://www.bestdesigntuts.com/top-php-misconceptions-to-avoid
18:05:03 <kmc> 'But why would you want it to be secure by default, why not write a secure code for it... If you compare it with .NET which helps you with security by default, PHP misses out, but if you are a skilled programmer, you don’t really need “help” with security'
18:08:03 <mnoqy> (????????????what)
18:10:15 <elliott> kmc you are almost as much of a masochist as me
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18:18:19 <kmc> this is double funny because if you code in C to show how h4rdc0re you are, it will at least impress people
18:18:29 <kmc> but if you do the same with PHP they will just laugh at you
18:19:12 <elliott> sounds like ur aim is hecked
18:21:54 <mnoqy> impressed by way of why the hell would you write anything in php
18:28:28 <kmc> isn't it great how the people who want static types to catch our own mistakes are 'elitists' while the people who say "Real Programmers just don't make mistakes" are the salt of the earth
18:29:09 <elliott> we really need like a hardcore anti-intellectual PHP programmer in here so kmc has someone to talk to
18:29:34 <kmc> nah i much prefer arguing with strawmen
18:47:54 <NihilistDandy> elliott: I could get my boss in here to keep going on and on about CamelCase like that implementation detail matters
18:48:18 <mnoqy> While PHP is an excellent language for building complex web application, it imposes certain limitations.
18:48:46 <NihilistDandy> I'm just going to write overly type hinted PHP to fuck with him
18:49:35 <NihilistDandy> I've already started using array_map and array_reduce all the time to throw him off
18:51:32 <fizzie> Hmm. For some reason, autopano-SIFT is having some trouble finding good keypoints in https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-p1180129.jpg
18:51:43 <fizzie> (Also: photo of the year 2013?)
18:52:42 <kmc> http://io9.com/5938521/the-ultimate-invention-for-telling-your-coworkers-to-screw-themselves
18:57:23 <NihilistDandy> "you can make [PHP] even more secure if you get a thorough understanding of all its directives"
18:58:15 <kmc> i love this attitude where knowing a workaround for a flaw, no matter how awful or tedious, means the flaw doesn't exist in the first place
18:58:24 <NihilistDandy> Yeah, Haskell sucks. I don't have to understand the entire language just to make code that won't explode in my face
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19:12:45 <oklopol> "lack of operator overloading, etc. can affect the performance of a PHP application"
19:16:08 <NihilistDandy> "there is something called a Command Line Interface and this can be used to ensure that your PHP applications run outside the web server"
19:16:33 <kmc> http://i.imgur.com/CSbWN6z.jpg
19:19:17 <elliott> ok so this is like the least likely thing
19:19:24 <elliott> but does anyone use agda with emacs on os x
19:19:30 <Gracenotes> hm, I have to close an investment account that was opened in 1998, to get monies
19:19:34 <elliott> if so why do subscripts not show no matter what font i use
19:19:35 <kmc> seems p. likely, but try #agda?
19:19:38 <elliott> oh maybe copumpkin does????
19:19:50 <elliott> kmc: uh I think you'll find that questions are only on topic in #esoteric
19:19:58 <Gracenotes> I don't know if I can do that. that account is, like, pretty old. it's almost able to get a driving permit in some states.
19:19:59 <elliott> NihilistDandy: ok great please tell me your subscripts were broken and then you found a way to fix them
19:20:17 <NihilistDandy> I haven't noticed anything particularly broken before. Screenshot?
19:20:31 <elliott> Gracenotes: that account is 3 years younger than me 8|
19:20:33 <NihilistDandy> I use DejaVu Sans Mono and that always seemed to play nice with it
19:20:37 <elliott> NihilistDandy: they literally just display as spaces
19:20:43 <elliott> I mean I could screenshot it but it seems a little pointless
19:20:52 <elliott> where do you get your emacs / what version is it?
19:21:36 <Gracenotes> elliott: I feel like I might get some kind of award if I leave it open for long enough
19:21:48 <elliott> except maybe without the gnutls part but I doubt that's relevant
19:21:52 <Gracenotes> or, like, the ultimate negotiating trump card, in some circumstance
19:22:50 <Gracenotes> I don't think finance works like that, though
19:22:53 <elliott> maybe it's something to do with line height or anything
19:23:01 <NihilistDandy> Well, let me install Agda again. I recently reformatted and I haven't got everything set up, yet.
19:24:33 <elliott> Inconsolata with nothing particularly interesting-looking in the details -- I do (set-default-font "Inconsolata-16") in my ~/.emacs, but it also happens with every other font I have tried
19:24:37 <elliott> and all the other unicode works fine
19:26:34 <NihilistDandy> Also, wow, I just installed Agda after weeks of experimenting with packages from all over the place, and it didn't break once :D
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19:42:57 <NihilistDandy> elliott: Yeah, subscripts seem to be working for me
19:45:42 <NihilistDandy> Also, man, oh man, I need to change the highlighting for Agda
19:47:45 <elliott> does it work with other fonts for you?
19:47:48 <NihilistDandy> Does the subscript in this file show up? http://d.pr/f/AAji
19:48:50 <elliott> NihilistDandy: http://i.imgur.com/c9wmiRf.png
19:49:12 <NihilistDandy> Well, there's a package I have installed that might help
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19:50:09 <NihilistDandy> It adds a little startup time, but it might do the trick
19:51:02 <NihilistDandy> That's very odd, though. I can't imagine what would cause that
19:51:23 <elliott> [No match] for unicode-fonts apparently
19:51:33 <elliott> btw, the space seems oddly thin
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19:52:11 <NihilistDandy> '("melpa" . "http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/") t)
19:53:04 <NihilistDandy> Let me try removing that package and maybe I'll be able to reproduce the issue
19:53:49 <elliott> that seems weird, what does that package even do
19:54:15 <NihilistDandy> https://github.com/rolandwalker/unicode-fonts#overview
19:55:01 <elliott> ok so I guess the problem is i don't have dejavu sans mono
19:55:06 <elliott> and you were getting all the glyphs substituted from there
19:55:38 <NihilistDandy> Well, I still have DejaVu, now, and my subscripts are gone
19:56:06 <elliott> maybe symbola or something then??
19:56:13 <elliott> thanks for your help, anyway
19:56:21 <elliott> will see if I can fix it with this
19:56:44 <NihilistDandy> Yeah, I think this is all that's necessary. It's a minor annoyance, but you can switch off fonts to boost startup time
19:57:17 <NihilistDandy> I'm not sure if it's an issue in agda-mode, Emacs, or what.
19:58:07 <elliott> Warning (initialization): An error occurred while loading `/Users/elliott/.emacs':
19:58:11 <elliott> Symbol's value as variable is void: package-archives
19:58:13 <elliott> do I have to do more stuff to set up this package thing
19:58:34 <NihilistDandy> Package is part of Emacs 24, so that should be enough
19:59:16 <NihilistDandy> (setq package-archives '(("gnu" . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/")
19:59:16 <NihilistDandy> ("marmalade" . "http://marmalade-repo.org/packages/")
19:59:16 <NihilistDandy> ("melpa" . "http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/")))
19:59:22 <Bike> http://i.imgur.com/IGQZduF.png exclusive picture of me
20:02:48 <mnoqy> Bike, The True HOOHA
20:02:51 <mnoqy> so it was you all along
20:03:49 <elliott> mnoqy: have uyou seen the article that goes witht hat image
20:03:58 <elliott> bike has a link, it is very good
20:05:02 <Koen_> oh actually you have to set the oven on if you want your pizza to be baked
20:05:08 <Koen_> nobody told me that
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20:09:52 <elliott> mnoqy: found it on bike's behalf http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-usa-security-snowden-anime-idUSBRE95B14B20130612
20:10:07 <NihilistDandy> Does the NSA care that I follow Al Jazeera on Twitter?
20:10:39 <Bike> al jazeera is pretty weaksauce as evil terrists go
20:11:16 <elliott> it makes up for him supporting ron paul, imo.
20:12:46 <Bike> statist capitalism* hth
20:13:34 <NihilistDandy> Anyway, elliott, why Agda. Errybody knows Idris is the new hotness
20:14:03 <elliott> idris is... somewhat unpolished in my experience
20:14:28 <Bike> for fuck's sake why are you not talking about the actor
20:14:41 <kmc> idris elba?
20:14:43 <kmc> he's p. good
20:15:21 <kmc> should i watch that
20:15:27 <Phantom_Hoover> unfortunately that ginger psychopath character put me off
20:15:37 <Koen_> well that depends what kind of shows you like though
20:15:40 <kmc> i saw like 1½ episodes and i was like "... this is a bit much"
20:16:15 <Koen_> I'm gonna spoil you though superman does not appear in the first season
20:16:36 <Koen_> I only realized after watching it that it was Luther and not Luthor
20:20:17 <ion> :-D http://i.imgur.com/JYGV1K8.jpg
20:20:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Koen_, so why did luther keep trusting her that really pissed me off
20:20:51 <Phantom_Hoover> he really just seemed to be doing it to make him interesting and dark
20:22:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: he just had to get the violins made
20:23:45 <Koen_> Phantom_Hoover: when did he trust her?
20:23:58 <Koen_> he spent half the season trying to protect his family from her
20:24:56 <Koen_> "one coffee doesn't make us friends" was wrong apparently
20:25:04 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't remember but i have this vague recollection that ~feminine wiles~ may have been involved
20:27:31 <Gracenotes> strangely enough, I can add funds online to this account, but I can't remove any
20:27:54 <kmc> feminine andrew wiles
20:31:22 <Fiora> "I'd like to find a powersmooth region on *your* elliptic curves"
20:32:06 <Bike> "is that a pickup line?" "Yeah, here's my two hundred page proof you should find that attractive"
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20:34:17 <Fiora> "I think you made an error in your proof... here."
20:37:26 <mnoqy> great joke ph (a thumb up)
20:38:33 <Fiora> I... was actually thinking at pointing at somewhere in the math
20:38:51 <Bike> maybe you don't have what it takes to flirt with the dorkiest mathematician alive
20:45:02 <Fiora> Bike: before that I'd need to like, have what it takes to flirt with somewhat dorky biomathematicians who hang out in #esoteric
20:47:16 <Bike> go meta, obviously, they dig that
20:48:37 <Fiora> is that the joke >_<
20:53:19 <elliott> NihilistDandy: hmm, I seem to have gotten that package source added but unicode-fonts is still nowhere to be found
20:53:46 <NihilistDandy> elliott: M-x package-list-packages should download the list
20:54:48 <elliott> you know, when people talk about emacs being an OS I doubt what they had in mind was that it needed a package manager
20:54:58 <elliott> this seems to be working though, yay
20:56:47 <NihilistDandy> Even vim has like 6 competing package managers. At least emacs settled on one
21:10:01 * kmc → airplane → SAN FRANCISCO
21:10:45 <Bike> remember to keep the plane level
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21:12:59 <oerjan> kmc: don't forget the flour in your hare hth
21:15:07 <fizzie> Don't forget the fluoride in your water hth2
21:16:27 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/fluids.jpg
21:17:13 <Bike> NaS is a good musician
21:17:26 <Bike> i think the nazis did fluoridate water
21:17:36 <Bike> i mean, they also banned smoking, etc etc
21:17:53 <NihilistDandy> Also, if it causes apathy, who is that sign going to convince?
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21:17:56 <oerjan> I,I http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar
21:18:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it's an owl
21:18:34 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: maybe i like owls
21:18:57 * Bike googles "water fluoridation nazis", which will surely be informative
21:19:00 <elliott> NihilistDandy: it works!!! thank you
21:19:36 <NihilistDandy> elliott: Nice. I wonder why that happens, all of a sudden. Maybe Emacs 24 handles unicode differently than 23 did
21:20:01 <Bike> "The Use Of Flouridation For Mass Mind Control - Rense" hm yes.
21:20:26 <ion> I hate the water fluoridation nazis. They totally suck.
21:20:30 <oerjan> oh hm duh tmux -c does _not_ actually start tmux
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21:22:33 <shachaf> oerjan: tmux new cmd # hth
21:22:44 <ion> I just run tmux a
21:22:50 <shachaf> my irc-thing command file says:
21:22:52 <oerjan> shachaf: i know, i just assumed -c would be a synonym
21:22:56 <shachaf> #exec tmux new -A -D -s irc
21:22:56 <shachaf> exec tmux attach -d -t irc # old version of tmux; will attach only
21:23:12 <shachaf> because my server's tmux is too told to support new -A :'(
21:23:32 <ion> I have (among other things) this in my .tmux.conf: new -d -s0 -nirc 'exec weechat-curses'
21:23:44 <ion> tmux a will run that if no tmux session exists. Otherwise it’ll just attach normally.
21:24:04 <ion> Should work with old versions, too.
21:25:40 <fizzie> I just tested out a hand-crafted panorama tripod head thing in an *enclosed space* -- and look, no parallax to speak of: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-p1180115-162-small.jpg -- shame it's pretty much the most boring hotel room.
21:25:47 <fizzie> I also tested it in the fanciest possible place, this concert stage floating on a cliff-enclosed lake in an old molybdenum mine -- except turns out things that float around actually, well, float around, so the fancy rotate-around-the-no-parallax-point rig did absolutely nothing special at all.
21:26:08 <ion> fizzie: Cool. Information about the tripod head anywhere?
21:26:27 <elliott> oerjan: dtach is much easier to use, hth
21:26:40 <ion> Does dtach support multiple windows?
21:27:35 <ion> Can you shells, text editors, a torrent client and a log reader in your IRC client?
21:27:57 <elliott> is CLIENTINFO actually a thing
21:28:13 <fizzie> ion: Not really; though it's not terribly exciting, I just more or less followed one of the umpteen guides along the lines of "L-shaped piece of metal bolted to a straight piece of metal". There's a picture of it at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-panohead.jpg anyway.
21:28:15 <elliott> ion: no, but my terminal emulator has this handy feature whereby it can open multiple ones
21:28:49 <ion> fizzie: Alright, thanks
21:29:08 <ion> elliott: And attach to them from elsewhere?
21:29:33 <oerjan> elliott: i think i like tmux thank you very much, also this server doesn't have dtach installed.
21:30:10 <elliott> ion: my terminals are a mess, why would I want to replicate that mess? :)
21:30:22 <fizzie> Also, molybdenum mine lake concert stage thing: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-p1180390-437-small.jpg
21:32:13 <fizzie> (The cliff doesn't look terribly impressive after the equirectangular squezzling.
21:32:15 <oerjan> elliott: also my main reason for using tmux is that my network connection is flaky, which makes it much simpler to just have to restart _one_ window, sure?
21:32:42 <elliott> oerjan: wait you actually use putty for more than irssi? :P
21:33:05 <oerjan> but also, ^Bc _is_ more convenient than opening another putty.
21:33:26 <shachaf> oerjan: but now if you want bold text you have to press ^B twice
21:33:52 <oerjan> elliott: well not _most_ of the time, but i _do_ have my email, webpage and linux in general on the nvg server...
21:34:37 <oerjan> shachaf: fortunately i rarely want that. screen's ^A was much more annoying, since that's what i've bound to go to start of line
21:35:37 <oerjan> elliott: also i use it to do host or whois whenever i want to check out things to ban (inb4 "that's nearly never!")
21:39:45 <oerjan> 03:29:16: <Fiora> presidential elections in ~20 years will be pretty amazing
21:39:45 <oerjan> 03:29:27: <Fiora> all the candidates will have embarrassed themselves terribly on like, facebook and stuff as kids
21:40:02 <shachaf> oerjan: Yes, that waas my situation too.
21:40:10 <shachaf> oerjan: (Also you can rebind this key if you want.)
21:40:12 <oerjan> i am hoping this kind of process will make people stop caring about such insignificant things
21:40:27 <elliott> NihilistDandy: hah but now \lub shows as a square
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21:43:49 <shachaf> oerjan: You could rebind it in screen if you wanted, too.
21:43:55 <shachaf> but you were too lazy to hth
21:44:43 <oerjan> no i actually rebound it to ^Y in screen, but then i complained about pgup/pgdn not working and people suggested changing to tmux
21:45:17 <oerjan> which actually did nothing to fix the pgup/pgdn issue but people said tmux was better in general
21:45:40 <oerjan> (i fixed that by finding the correct putty setting)
21:46:29 <oerjan> shachaf: also i _first_ rebound it to the mnemonic ^S, with what in afterthought should be obvious hilarious results.
21:51:10 <oerjan> (i _knew_ about xon/xoff, but had somehow got the impression it wasn't usually enabled...)
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21:59:46 <FreeFull> I tried to disable xon/xoff, but somehow it still occasionally happens
22:02:14 <oerjan> FreeFull: not when you're trying to get an _actual_ ^S through to screen which you are trying to reset without killing it
22:03:23 <oerjan> fortunately i was in a shell window, and found out screen could be controlled remotely
22:07:42 <oerjan> @tell taneb <Taneb> elliott, when I am bored I like to throw Haskell web frameworks at eachother <- you should make partial lenses to convert between snap and yesod hth
22:08:04 <HackEgo> Thanks, kappabot. Thappabot.
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22:13:13 <oerjan> how to reconnect in five noisy steps
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22:16:45 <oerjan> Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj is such a household name
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22:22:13 <Bike> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/06/msg00720.html lol.
22:30:51 <Phantom_Hoover> huh, that thing shachaf kept bugging everyone about got funded
22:31:01 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: p. crazy huh
22:31:18 <Phantom_Hoover> i know, i was expecting it to fail because shachaf was helping
22:31:26 <shachaf> and there we were thinking it was p. not going to make it
22:31:41 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: is the joke "shachaf is incompetent" :'(
22:32:30 <shachaf> this sounds like a useful skill
22:32:36 <shachaf> i would use it to my advatnage except, y'know
22:32:50 <shachaf> (I suspect Phantom_Hoover just likes insulting people for some reason.)
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22:45:59 <oerjan> how could it not succeed with a cosy name like armikrog
22:47:58 <NihilistDandy> @tell elliott So, it turns out you don't really need all that unicode-fonts nonsense, after all. https://github.com/railwaycat/emacs-mac-port brew rm emacs, then tap and install this one. I used it a few months back when it was less stable, and it's generally nicer than the current Cocoa port. It even works in terminal, mostly.
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22:49:51 <oerjan> ...i guess technically this means the duplicate messages will annoy people the next time it joins...
22:51:40 <Bike> c. deep indeed
22:52:23 <NihilistDandy> elliott: Anyway, I fixed emacs by getting rid of emacs and getting a different one. And it should also fix it for you
22:52:42 <NihilistDandy> Bonus points because it will actually be nicer in most wayss
22:53:30 <NihilistDandy> The icon is about a thousand times uglier, but who looks at the dock?
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23:23:08 * oerjan predicts that the ugly icon will drive elliott absolutely bonkers
23:28:46 <NihilistDandy> Not as much as incomplete Unicode coverage in Agda mode will
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23:34:14 <kmc> hi shachaf
23:34:16 <kmc> i'm back in #haskell
23:34:52 <shachaf> i thought it was just temporary
23:34:59 <Fiora> I thought you were getting on a plane
23:35:05 <kmc> it takes a while to get on a plane
23:35:30 <shachaf> departs in 2 hours 25 mins
23:37:02 <kmc> my flight from Boston to SF is delayed due to fog
23:37:04 <kmc> how ironic
23:38:17 <kmc> I'll arrive too late for BART so I'll take SamTrans 292 / 397
23:38:23 <kmc> unless I arrive really late and BART is running again
23:38:33 <kmc> or I could be a true mission software jerk and take an Uber
23:38:38 <elliott> kmc: i like this moving to SF and joining #haskell on the same day
23:38:46 <elliott> in my head you've been planning this for months
23:38:55 <elliott> the day everything changes
23:39:03 <shachaf> you could also take one of those shuttles
23:39:16 <kmc> don't know shuttles
23:39:43 <shachaf> i mean the thing you linked to a while ago when i asked about it
23:40:50 <kmc> those kind of suck
23:40:55 <kmc> but it's a thought, yeah
23:41:09 <shachaf> depends on where you're going
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23:46:09 <shachaf> what's bad about those shuttles
23:53:02 <Fiora> Bike: http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0609050v1.pdf
23:54:05 <kmc> shachaf: they are ok in the from-airport direction, I guess
23:54:15 <Bike> «We consider the 4D effective theory for the light Kaluza-Klein (KK) modes. The heavy KK mode contribution is generally needed to reproduce the correct physical predictions: an equivalence, between the effective theory and the D-dimensional (or geometrical) approach to spontaneous symmetry breaking (SSB), emerges only if the heavy mode contribution is taken into account. This happens even if the heavy mode masses are at the Planck ...
23:54:21 <Bike> ... scale. In particular, we analyze a 6D Einstein-Maxwell model coupled to a charged scalar and fermions. Moreover, we briefly review non-Abelian and supersymmetric extensions of this theory.»
23:54:25 <Bike> is this the same one
23:54:26 <kmc> much slower than a taxi, much more expensive than public transit, but possibly an attractive tradeoff
23:54:28 <Bike> because: helppppp
23:54:39 <kmc> in the to-airport direction I've had them show up much later than they said they would
23:54:41 <shachaf> in the other direction you have to show up p. early
23:55:18 <Fiora> Bike: "In addition, although not conclusively proven, it has long been proposed that the parity violation of the weak interactions was important in producing the essential left-right asymmetry of many organic molecules and of the human body, as reviewed for example in ref.[4]"
23:55:44 <Bike> oh, http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0609050 this one?
23:56:06 <Fiora> I thought that was what I linked @_@
23:56:17 <Bike> i don't click pdfs usually
23:56:20 <Bike> i like to know what it is
23:56:26 <Bike> "Since oxygen is an essential element in both water, the universal solvent needed for life, and in each of the four bases forming the DNA code for known living beings, we strongly question the hypothesis that a universe without weak interactions could generate life" weak!
23:56:40 <Fiora> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14709773 wow this is a thing in an experimental biology journal
23:57:02 <kmc> that's a pretty dodgy conclusion
23:57:13 <kmc> that our biochemistry is the only way to build "living beings" whatever that even means
23:57:36 <Bike> were you not paying attention the last nine times i was gushing about a paper about cyborganisms working better by predicting primates' locomotion decisions
23:57:42 <Bike> experimental biology is the best, is what i'm saying
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23:58:54 <Bike> "Division of Rheumatology, Allergy, and Clinical Immunology" this seems like an odd place to tackle these problems from
23:59:08 <elliott> lexande joined #esoteric!?
23:59:15 <elliott> usually people do that before getting in the qdb.
23:59:25 <kmc> `quote lexande
23:59:27 <HackEgo> 941) <lexande> sometimes i am confronted with a problem and i think "I know, I'll use Banach-Tarski"
23:59:38 <kmc> elliott: I did't!
23:59:43 <Fiora> and then you have two problems?
23:59:46 <HackEgo> 589) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks \ 619) <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. <shachaf> `quote kmc <HackEgo> 686) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks <shachaf> Well, in theory. \ 690) <kmc> damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN \ 693) <kmc> has there been any work towards designing programming l
23:59:54 <kmc> Fiora: yep
23:59:56 <elliott> kmc: i think you said the cocks thing in #esoteric