00:00:06 it assumes that we have already dealt with the fact that there is a king of france... which we haven't 00:02:21 it's kinda like having the equation 1/x = 3 is satisfied when x = 0 : it doesn't make sense 00:03:39 wat 00:03:52 that's a lot of activity on the Deadfish page today... 00:04:42 well, "1/1 = 3" is obviously false, and "1/(1/3) = 3" is obviously true, but "1/0 = 3" simply doesn't make sense 00:13:01 shachaf: So, what *was* the channel with all the #haskell metadiscussion? 00:13:08 other than this now 00:13:20 ? 00:13:53 Ah. 00:14:18 I assume it was johnw /msging byorgey. 00:14:33 It's one of those things he does. /msging people, I mean. 00:14:55 Ah. 00:15:12 He should be careful, some people are allergic to MSG. 00:23:11 shachaf: 17:22 < strcat> Option<~T>, Option<&T> etc. turn to a nullable ptr 00:23:26 kmc: I heard about that. 00:23:32 thats weird 00:23:41 is Option special-cased 00:23:46 Works for any enum, doesn't it? 00:24:03 shachaf: you were asking if Option< Option > was broken, but I don't think it is, because Option is not a non-nullable pointer type 00:24:37 imo they should turn enum Foo { Red, Blue, SomethingElse } into {0x0, 0x1, validPtr} 00:24:57 kmc: Ah, makes sense, I suppose. 00:25:16 kmc: have you convinced them to make their syntax less wack yet 00:25:45 what's wack about their syntax 00:26:04 everything 00:26:10 shachaf: yeah a runtime check of /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr 00:26:59 elliott: it's not special cased by name, but by structure 00:27:20 kmc: you can just require the bottom page not to be used in rust programs 00:27:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:27:29 so types isomorphic to Option also get it 00:27:30 shachaf: true 00:27:32 then you can go up to 4096-enums "good enough 4 me" 00:27:54 fsvo "require", you can't enforce it when a C program calls a Rust library 00:28:02 or even the other way round really 00:28:59 Hmm, aren't pointer values in the bottom page often considered invalid in C programs for some other reason? 00:30:13 many C programs are designed this way 00:30:30 I don't know what the spec says, other than that the numeric literal "0" gives you a NULL pointer whose use in various ways is UB 00:30:40 it might not even be represented the same way as an integer zero, of course 00:31:19 if( !x ) has to be the same as if( x == NULL ), right? 00:31:44 no 00:31:46 -!- Bike has joined. 00:31:58 No? 00:32:11 #define NULL 1 00:32:23 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:32:31 I thought NULL had to compare as false... 00:32:42 like, NULL isn't necessarily 0, but it has to compare equal to 0 00:32:58 (My "No?" was addressed to katla, not Fiora.) 00:33:01 "not zero but another number of the same name" 00:33:09 oh 00:33:20 sorry 00:33:33 I thought I was responding to katla 00:33:41 I thought so too. 00:33:43 secretly, everyone was responding to Bike 00:33:58 we're getting a serious Bike infestation in here 00:34:06 they're doubling every few minutes 00:34:09 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:34:13 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 00:34:15 oh that's better 00:34:18 Only the one true Bike shall stand 00:34:32 the two true Bikes 00:34:36 the one true Unike 00:34:37 hth 00:40:35 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:41:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:42:05 Unicode seems to have “DIRECT CURRENT SYMBOL FORM TWO” and no other forms. Theother one is called “AC CURRENT” instead of, say, “ALTERNATING CURRENT SYMBOL”. 00:43:01 http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn27/ 00:44:21 bless you, unicode 00:44:22 that doesn't include it oh no 00:44:23 blunicode 00:44:45 i love how many of them are bad transliterations of non-IE languages 00:45:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:46:16 which reminds me, is anyone here as annoyed as me (level: "mildly chuffed") that news organizations can never agree on how to transliterate Arabic or Persian or anything 00:46:36 Well, that's hardly unique to news organizations. 00:46:51 I keep seeing Morsy and thinking Morrissey 00:47:11 is it as bad as irish "man just throw some i's in there, also some h's while we're at it" orthography 00:47:19 well 00:47:27 don't they at least usually agree on how many i's to throw in 00:47:56 kmc knows what happens when you throw too many 'i's into one letter 00:47:57 no (i guess i'm talking about, like, broader goidelic names here) 00:49:29 i admit i know shit all about irish 00:50:07 anyway the fact that news organizations do it is important because: they're the ones i'm immediately annoyed at 00:50:31 according to wp there was also a spelling reform which included such highlights as beirbhiughadh => beiriú 00:51:10 so like i can only assume the bh, gh and dh were just there to fuck with people 00:51:32 O_o 00:52:11 i think the worst individual transliteration cases i can think of though are the name of the mongolian conqueror, and the name of the former president of Libya 00:52:53 ah, you mean dschinghis khan? 00:53:03 yes ;_; 00:53:32 Did you mean: bear hug edh, beiried, bear birth, beer buddha 00:54:07 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:54:18 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 00:54:34 genghis khan? 00:54:52 sure, if you want to use the old fashioned transliteration 00:54:55 Bike: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5365283/regular-expression-to-search-for-gadaffi 00:54:57 i've actually seen dschinghis in print 00:55:17 yeah that's good 00:55:41 My history textbook called him Chinggis. Maybe we could just go with Temujin 00:56:11 "dschinghis" seems very weird too 00:56:23 kmc: our professor actually introduced regular expressions to us with that one 00:56:26 literally not kidding XD 00:56:29 Genghis Khan's name is spelled in variety of ways in different languages such as English Chinghiz, Chinghis, and Chingiz, Chinese: 成吉思汗; pinyin: Chéngjísī Hán, Turkic: Cengiz Han, Çingiz Xan, Çingiz Han, Chingizxon, Çıñğız Xan, Chengez Khan, Chinggis Khan, Chinggis Xaan, Chingis Khan, Jenghis Khan, Chinggis Qan, Djingis Kahn, Russian: Чингисхан (Čingiskhan) or Чингиз-хан (Čingiz-khan), etc 00:56:44 Fiora: haha 00:57:00 or maybe it was something similar 00:57:19 doesn't genghis khan's wikipedia article open with like ten names 00:57:24 Fiora: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dschingis_Khan it seems to be pretty standard in German 00:57:33 maybe they removed them 00:57:41 Djengis in Afrikaans, oh man, i need to look through these now. 00:57:51 I guess it feels like it's extra consonants? 00:57:53 but it's german 00:57:55 so 00:57:59 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dschinghis_Khan 00:58:11 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 00:58:25 Xenxis, in... I don't know this language 00:58:45 language x 00:58:45 Asturian. 00:58:58 one of the billion languages of spain, right 00:59:03 misspelt austrian 00:59:05 what... was wrong with genghis 00:59:19 didn't kill enough people 00:59:19 it's not really descriptive of the pronunciation, I think 00:59:23 it's more of a "ch" sound at the start 00:59:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:59:36 and i ean it's a transliteration from what, the 18th century? it's gotta be shit 00:59:39 mean* 00:59:42 I think people like to pronounce "ge" like in... "get"? 00:59:50 but it's more like "tsingis" 01:00:06 i'm tempted to say 'that's not really worth the bother' here 01:03:01 -!- glogbot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:03:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:04:33 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:04:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:04:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:10:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:10:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:10:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:26 -!- glogbot has joined. 01:11:27 what the fuck is this 01:11:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:31 ithkuil 01:11:32 is this machine generated 01:11:37 no it's art 01:11:39 beauty 01:11:43 it sounds welsh 01:12:00 more like zalgokuil 01:12:07 it sounds like a barcelonian failing to pronounce Dungan 01:12:18 also bbl 01:12:20 ps give me something else to translate into ithkuil 01:12:25 it was actually a nice adventure 01:12:27 lord's prayer? 01:12:31 what no thatd take a month 01:12:46 first bit of lord's prayer in non-archaic english 01:12:47 like, a 3-4 word sentence kinda thing, something cute 01:13:09 Schleicher's fable? 01:13:12 nooodl: how about "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" 01:13:23 ps verbs have cases in ithkuil but the online guide doesn't tell you how to use them... 01:13:27 elliott, that's good 01:13:36 you have to pronounce it and upload it though!! 01:13:40 i'll try 01:13:50 my ithkuil pronunciation is probably "subpar" 01:14:02 Efter foondin the Mongol Empire an being proclaimed "Genghis Khan", he startit the Mongol invasions that woud ultimately result in the conquest o maist o Eurasie. 01:14:16 scots is great 01:14:31 is there an ulster scots wikipedia yet 01:14:42 Mony o these invasions also resultit in lairge-scale slaughter o the local populations an ar no viewed positively in these parts o the warld today. 01:14:46 i mean, you could literally run a simple filter over the english wikipedia to get the same results 01:14:49 what is the point 01:14:58 it's cultural etc. 01:15:00 "no viewed positively" <3 01:15:16 yeah if they want to have their own language more power to 'em 01:15:21 i still think it's funny to see 01:15:21 http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer 01:15:33 (ulster scots is even more cultural etc., in that it's basically the result of a game of linguistic one-upmanship with irish) 01:15:34 is "dickery" a scots word 01:16:03 wait, is ulster scots what they pretend to speak in northern ireland, or 01:16:31 well it's the dialect of english spoken in ulster 01:16:38 http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#OUTRAGED oh my god 01:16:44 The Ithkuil equivalent to a subordinate clause is called a "case-frame." 01:16:45 except that being in ulster there's a bunch of sectarian politics involved 01:16:47 i can't wait 01:16:48 oh, they're what you call people americans call "Scots-Irish" 01:16:51 your name is way better than ours 01:17:10 elliott: what the hecks 01:17:14 A'v ne'er unnerstuid ootrage aboot Scots projects like this Wikipedia. 01:17:20 i don't know what "jaxie" is 01:17:23 ootrage 01:17:34 Is this the real Scots language or are you just putting a sort of traditional highlander accent on and spelling words as they sound...I mean is there a dictionary or something which can prove these words are real? 01:17:46 this is really good 01:18:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 01:18:10 -!- aloril has joined. 01:18:10 COTTISH PEOPLE SPEAK ENGLISH, NOT THIS SHIT PICTURED ON THIS SITE!!! wrote some random guy from Texas 01:18:17 funetik aksents! 01:18:50 i like the quoting of the "UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS" 01:18:57 scots wikipedia: highly serious 01:18:58 there's a wikipedia in west-vlaams: http://vls.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voorblad 01:18:59 have i mentioned, that's why i gave up on stross 01:19:14 because he talks funny? 01:19:23 (i don't know if he talks funny) 01:19:38 because he writes his characters with these egregious scottish accents 01:19:41 rendered phonetically 01:19:50 "THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS IS JUST FRACTURED ENGLISH, WITH WORDS BEING WRITTEN AS THEY SOUND TO SOME PEOPLE, AND IS NOT AN ACTUAL LANGUAGE!" 01:19:50 «Ulster Scots, the local dialect of Lowland Scots, which has, since the 1980s, also been called 'Ullans', a portmanteau neologism popularised by the physician, amateur historian and politician Dr Ian Adamson,[15] merging Ulster and Lallans - the Scots for Lowlands[16] - but also an acronym for "Ulster-Scots language in literature and native speech"» awesome 01:19:58 unfortuantely the scots have yet to realise this 01:20:05 "No, we get it. Feel free to read other parts of the internet that are solely in English. There's quite a lot of it. Come back when you've finished that off, and we'll talk." 01:20:25 i mean it's like writing a book set in kent and having everyone talking about how they're getting in the caah 01:20:31 and also in limburgs... http://li.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veurblaad 01:20:41 why are there multiple dutch dialect wikipedias 01:20:55 there's wikipedias for the two norwegian languages too 01:21:00 s/languages/dialects/ 01:21:14 haha drawing a distinction 01:21:35 :'( 01:21:38 also isn't bokmal and the other thing, like, written 01:21:38 don't mock me Bike 01:21:50 imo written language is too complicated *series of hand gestures 01:21:51 iirc the nynorsk one is depressing 01:22:08 small wikipedias are the most depressing thing in the world 01:22:11 «As a result of the competing influences of English and Scots, varieties of Ulster Scots can be described as 'more English' or 'more Scots'» 01:22:14 it's trying really hard but there's just not enough care on the planet for a less-popular dialect of norwegian 01:22:35 elliott: last i checked, the nynorsk wikipedia even has some articles with subpages in the even more radical høgnorsk form 01:22:43 hognorsk 01:22:54 means "high norwegian" of course :P 01:23:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Høgnorsk seems like it's less radical? 01:23:19 what about like... what do saami people speak 01:23:22 i have no idea 01:23:35 -!- yiyus has joined. 01:23:48 elliott: hm i meant radical in the sense of even further from what most people use 01:23:53 ah 01:24:02 but i guess that is also extremely conservative 01:24:38 `slist 01:24:41 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 01:25:12 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:25:18 Bike, have you reached the part where it was mostly made up to get a unionist alternative to irish's protected language status (n.b. my sources in this matter are not exactly dispassionate) 01:25:51 also isn't bokmal and the other thing, like, written <-- of course. the current fashion for _speech_ is to use nearly unnormalized dialect. 01:25:55 Phantom__Hoover: it's in the intro. 01:26:11 it's recognized by the UK under the EU's language thing though, huh 01:26:20 oerjan: when i come to trondheim you have to explain norway to me. 01:26:23 i vote finnish for cutest language 01:26:38 `what about basque' 01:26:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: what: not found 01:26:44 Bike: there are three official saami languages in norway, although northern saami is far larger than the others. 01:26:51 gosh that's a lot 01:27:07 oh there's a word for spelling scots like that, kinda. eye dialect 01:27:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:This_is_the_cover_of_a_book_containing_the_Gospel_of_Luke_in_both_Ulster_Scots_and_the_1611_AV.png good filename 01:27:26 elliott: what do you mean, you think _i_ understand norway? 01:27:36 oerjan: well I would hope so. 01:27:50 my favorite wikipedia filename is 01:27:50 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:27:51 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:27:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thing.png 01:28:00 Bike: great filename 01:28:01 oh you said that 01:28:08 its exactly a thing 01:28:17 that is definitely a thing. 01:28:33 -!- kmc has joined. 01:29:28 Thành Cát Tư Hãn 01:29:30 -!- jix has joined. 01:30:36 that tu han 01:31:45 jix: you have your own company now? 01:32:08 maybe it's "jix code" 01:32:55 "Contemporary Mongolians clearly prefer Chinggis over Genghis, not only because it reflects Mongolian pronounciation more closely, but also because it matches the Cyrillic version, Чингис хаан" 01:32:55 jix: your "index!" needs expansion hth 01:33:11 "The article is inconsitent in Temüjin vs Temujin. Which is correct?" *flips table* 01:33:55 wow there's a frickin mongolian imperial defender in this talk page 01:34:21 My name is Serge and i'm citizen of Ukraine (Ukrainian Rus), one of the states in the modern global cossack society that is society of cossacks, free people of the Earth. 01:34:32 I read that as ukrainian bus 01:35:08 i think this person is saying kazakhs are cossacks 01:36:18 -!- comex` has changed nick to comex. 01:38:06 «For example, Peter Holquist, a specialist of the conflict in the Don region, concludes that decossackization did not constitute an "open-ended program of genocide" but rather was a "ruthless" and "radical attempt to eliminate undesirable social groups," which showed Soviet regime's "dedication to social engineering."» somebody help me understand this 01:39:47 so it was "not genocide" but "a ruthless attempt to eliminate undesirable social groups" 01:40:04 yeah i just 01:40:09 you can't just say the same thing twice man 01:40:17 "it's not murder, it's just intentionally killing someone" 01:42:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:45:39 as long as we have clarified that. 02:02:21 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:26 $u 𝕍 02:10:27 U+D835 (No name found) 02:10:28 U+DD4D (No name found) 02:10:30 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:11:26 Hmmm. Surrogates. 02:12:09 $u 𝕍 02:12:09 U+D835 (No name found) 02:12:10 U+DD4D (No name found) 02:12:21 :| Something's getting misinterpreted somewhere. 02:13:15 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:14:31 Sgeo_: hey, join the Desert Warriors Clan! 02:19:32 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:20:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:23:14 I don't even know what a condition code is 02:24:16 "A pretodianship is a position that can be held by a party member". Are all Agoran offices pretodianships? If not, can pretodianships also be held by nonmembers? 02:24:33 It's kind of clear what was intended, but not clear that your wording expresses it unambiguously 02:26:32 I think that's fair. 02:31:18 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:32:39 Sgeo_: think that should be fixed, along with the editing error in Article 2, before the party is created? 02:34:53 * Sgeo_ hasn't looked at the rest that closely 02:37:06 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:43:42 -!- sacje has joined. 02:57:24 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:57:43 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 03:22:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:28:31 -!- Bike has joined. 03:37:16 `slist 03:37:17 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:46:19 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 03:56:04 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 03:57:42 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:06:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:35:17 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:51:24 -!- ALTRION has joined. 04:51:49 HY 04:51:57 `WELCOME ALTRION 04:51:59 ALTRION: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 04:52:28 OK 04:52:38 I'M FROM INDONESIA 04:52:46 THAT'S COOL 04:53:15 NO 04:53:23 IN INDONESIA IS HOT 04:53:29 OH 04:53:34 IT'S HOT HERE TOO BUT PROBABLY NOT AS HOT 04:53:55 NOT VERY HOT 04:55:33 I'M SORRY MY ENGLISH IS NOT GOOD BUT NOT BAD 04:55:55 start by turning caps lock off :) 04:55:58 You're quite understandable. Maybe you should use lowercase letters, though. 04:56:27 ok 04:56:39 You should use both uppercase and lowercase letters. 04:57:10 liKe tHiS RiGHt? 04:58:10 my english is simultaneously good and bad 04:58:14 (Some computers don't have lowercase, but this makes it difficult to use the MODE command, and won't access most webpages, gopher, and other internet protocols; however, most modern computers do have lowercase.) 04:58:34 oooowww 04:58:55 I use lowercase latters, okay 04:59:16 well, anyway, what's up 05:00:29 This is a forum? 05:00:43 a chatroom, yeah 05:01:28 this name is esoteric, what is esoteric??? 05:01:55 check the link in the welcome message? 05:02:48 add my facebook okay : aldri_017@yahoo.co.id 05:03:10 how did you find this place? 05:03:36 shachaf: hth 05:03:44 copumpkin: Huh? 05:03:48 in channels list 05:03:56 shachaf: hth, hth 05:04:07 copumpkin: I don't get it. 05:04:22 I said hth, you said what, so I said hth, hth 05:04:30 Fine. 05:04:39 hth 05:05:36 -!- shachaf has left. 05:05:52 ALTRION: I don't use the Facebook, OK? 05:06:05 okay 05:07:04 which your country? 05:07:13 i'm from indonesia 05:07:18 and you ? 05:08:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:09:05 I am in Canada. 05:09:11 oooo 05:09:19 Some of people in here are from other countries. 05:14:13 -!- ALTRION has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:17:11 esoteric is an adjective, hth 05:24:39 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:24:55 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:34:56 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:39:02 * copumpkin hugs shachaf 05:40:08 I still don't get it, but whatever. 05:40:13 get what? 05:40:37 there was nothing to get! I was referencing your hth stint for no reason whatsoever and being obnoxious about it 05:40:40 that was all there was to it 05:40:51 What does hth even have to do with me? 05:41:01 you were using it all over the place for a while 05:41:36 I don't know. 05:41:40 * shachaf repeats earlier sentiment. 05:44:24 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 05:49:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:51:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:15:53 -!- Bike_ has joined. 06:16:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:25:50 I think the Turing sequent calculus I made up can be used for nondeterministic Turing machines too. 06:28:35 However it is also possible for there to be no rule (not even halting), in the one I made. 06:29:11 You win if it halts, lose if there is no rule, and draw if it doesn't halt. If it is nondeterministic, then the win/lose/draw outcome will not be predetermined. 06:30:38 -!- sprocklem has joined. 06:40:31 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:52:53 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 06:55:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:09:20 Whether any mathematicians find this useful, I don't know. 07:11:03 -!- Koen_ has joined. 07:12:10 -!- Koen__ has joined. 07:12:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:15:46 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 07:35:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:38:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:57:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:04:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go). 08:11:49 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:14:31 no I don't have my own company 08:14:51 jixco.de => jix' code 08:15:07 (and I happen to be in germany so .de is the right tld anyway) 08:18:09 That is good, then. 08:28:28 "Jix, Inc." would have a nice ring to it. 08:33:38 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 08:46:28 today i ate at http://www.sunflowersf.com/ which has the best website 08:48:51 The other day I ate at http://www.kabuki.fi/kabuki.html whose website is also pretty good; last news is from 2009, and there's a prominent red-border notice about it being closed "Sunday, August 5th", except this year's August 5th is a Monday, suggesting that it's probably about last year. 08:49:03 It's a bit more "designy", however. 08:49:54 kmc: That's a good website. 08:50:19 It could be improved by including HTML menus. 08:51:11 * kmc -> afk 08:57:07 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:07:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:21:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 09:26:14 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:33:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:54:30 -!- neena has joined. 10:56:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:53:01 `relcome neena 11:53:08 ​neena: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:08:30 you know what's funny 12:08:34 no 12:08:53 the fact that the word 'sigmoid' means s-shaped despite the fact that neither form of the letter sigma is s-shaped 12:09:00 Hello. I am only lurking 12:11:09 I guess they consider 's' a form of sigma 12:12:09 but that's boring... I like the idea that someone wanted a proper fancy name for s-shaped and just had no clue what a sigma actually looks like 12:12:54 Final sigma: ς 12:13:00 (in Greek) 12:13:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sigma_uc_lc.svg 12:15:02 looks like it says Eos 12:16:23 I once had a LaTeX document that used the symbol $\sigma_\varsigma$ for a thing. Then I talked about it in an email, and had to write σ_ς. 12:16:38 It was changed to something like a single uppercase latin letter, later on. 12:17:07 fizzie: important: do you acknowledge the immense superiority of \varepsilon over \epsilon 12:19:50 elliott: I do. 12:20:14 gooood 12:20:44 I have somewhat similar feelings when it comes to \varphi over \phi, but that might be just personal preference, since the loopier \varphi is how I was taught to write it. 12:21:31 fuck varphi 12:22:09 It's the proper Greek letter, instead of some silly "math symbol" phi. 12:23:07 what's the difference between the var-prefixed and normal name? 12:23:52 The var-prefixed is presumably a "variant form" of some sort. 12:24:04 Like the "final sigma" for \varsigma, and the loopy phi for \varphi. 12:24:41 oh, I thought it stood for "variable" 12:24:48 varsigma varies depending on context or something? 12:24:53 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:24:54 like you were meant to use \varepsilon for variables but \epsilon for... constants?? functions?? 12:25:26 I have just *assumed* the "variant" meaning of "var"; I'unno. 12:25:57 Also \varepsilon is the more rounded "flipped 3"-style epsilon, as opposed to \epsilon's "c and - overtyped" solution. 12:26:23 isn't \epsilon used for empty strings sometimes? 12:27:14 Yes, though I've seen \varepsilon as the empty string too. 12:27:24 (It might've not been a TeX-derived document at all.) 12:29:27 http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007doc/#epsilon 12:29:30 Best ideas: Use final sigma and stigma for two different meanings -- ς and ϛ are *so different*. 12:30:45 (That's U+03C2 GREEK SMALL LETTER FINAL SIGMA and U+03DB GREEK SMALL LETTER STIGMA, I hope.) 12:30:48 Deewiant, yikes. that has them the other way around 12:31:03 same for phi and varphi 12:31:22 As it says 12:31:39 that's a disaster 12:31:55 on a related note: i've never seen \vartheta (the swirly latex one) used anywhere 12:32:09 angles are usually just \theta, and honestly, what else do you call theta 12:32:17 I guess it's because the "default" for "them" is the regular Greek letter use, and the "variant" is the "mathy" one. 12:32:29 oh it's "variant"? 12:32:47 That's what I've always assumed, as I said, like, right after you joined. 12:33:07 pshh reading 12:33:15 Though "variant" is what Deewiant's link says, too, so I guess they've assumed so too. 12:33:38 And I remember seeing \vartheta somewhere, but I have no recollection what it was for. 12:36:40 Oh, right, of course -- the Jacobi theta function: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theta_function 12:37:07 i've seen that variant elsewhere 12:37:23 possibly handwritten, although god knows who'd write it that way 12:43:50 More than one people seem to be using ϑ for mean. 12:44:10 Or I guess as their go-to "I need a Greek letter and don't have an obvious choice" letter. 12:44:49 I write it kinda like that 12:45:01 except with a little extra bar on the left 12:45:14 The most secure data cryption program in the World http://kryptochef.net/indexh2e.htm 12:45:48 I think I remember KRYPTO. 12:48:50 The proof of 256 being "full bits" is impressive. 12:50:57 http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/the_doghouse_kr.html -- oh, from here. 12:57:50 -!- yiyus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:58:00 (The author takes part in the confersation few (hundred) screens down.) 13:02:25 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:03:30 (I like the bit where he proves almost all existing hashing algorithms are broken, because they generate nonzero outputs for the empty input. His own, LBV5DG, of course isn't broken that way -- "it doesn't work with nothing, how should it.") 13:03:40 haha 13:04:04 http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/the_doghouse_kr.html#c185757 is I think a direct link to that comment. 13:04:22 (These are some random commenter's English translations of his German postings from elsewhere.) 13:05:18 wat http://kryptochef.net/KRYPTOCHEF%20Newsletter%20eng.htm 13:09:11 Yes, I believe he has been badly wronged by the German government, or some such thing. 13:10:45 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 13:11:11 "These data programs immediately recognize the password is wrong when it is wrong. How can the program before the actual data decryption. That says it all out on such programs." 13:11:49 fungot: How can the program before the actual data decryption? 13:11:49 olsner: the fnord concept stems from the use that the catholic church and most media. so the teacher says, " one made up for that 13:12:25 fungot: You make about as much sense as KRYPTOCHEF. 13:12:25 fizzie: you must be a good idea, counting on that i have that was supoused to work, 13:13:08 is it still horribly difficult to add fungot styles? 13:13:09 olsner: away a sec. the siemens mobile toolkit thing has the api classes as a fnord is a diaresis? 13:13:39 I don't think it has been horribly difficult? 13:13:45 It's as difficult as it has been, however. 13:14:22 That means "involves, like, a dozen commands", assuming a suitably formatted dataset. 13:15:12 -!- boily has joined. 13:32:11 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:33:05 :-D http://www.edepot.com/baseencryption.html 13:34:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:36:22 ion: «As secure as OTP». yeah, right. 13:37:14 ion: Are you doing some sort of a crypto-kook tour or what? 13:37:42 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:39:10 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:00:13 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 14:33:53 why are there still new ed versions? 14:40:30 improved error messages 14:45:37 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:49:58 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 14:50:05 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Client Quit). 14:50:23 -!- ohnowhy has joined.