00:15:49 What's that demo thing? 00:15:50 bb 00:15:57 For the ... something or other 00:16:33 * Sgeo_ installs bb to check 00:17:15 Bike, go watch bb 00:17:38 Sgeo_ stops making sense 00:17:58 kmc: it's an aalib demo program, not related to breaking bad, hth 00:17:59 wat 00:18:19 too bad 00:18:50 Wonder if someone put it on YouTube, although that would be crap 00:19:21 Bike, it's a video made of ANSI art to show off a library for encoding videos as ANSI art 00:19:44 aalib might do more than that 00:20:41 YouTubed version of ASCII rendition of a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ukhOAUseKY 00:21:16 oh come on 00:21:24 a video of bb? 00:22:03 Are there any Linux distros that don't have bb? 00:22:30 YouTube is great for linking to Windows friends 00:23:03 I made bb run on Windows once. 00:23:15 It involved Cygwin and a lot of annoyance, I think. 00:23:23 (Getting the audio working was the annoyance part.) 00:24:16 Koules! 00:24:22 That's the name of that game I forgot the name of! 00:26:39 Hmm, running bb crashed my computer. 00:26:42 Kernel panic. 00:27:22 Bleh, I want to be able to play Koules on Windows 00:27:46 There is a port 00:28:03 Maybe someone should port it to HTML5+Javascript 00:28:10 Was going to say Flash, but Flash sucks 00:29:00 shachaf: hax 01:17:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:18:20 bike: nya? did someone say aaaronson book computing fiora something or other 01:18:27 -!- Bike has joined. 01:21:08 18:18 < Fiora> bike: nya? did someone say aaaronson book computing fiora something or other 01:21:19 hi Fiora 01:30:46 coppro asked about quantum computing. 01:40:31 oh 01:40:49 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 01:59:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:08:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:14:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:16:39 -!- Bike has joined. 02:36:57 overheard: "Say what you will about that circus, but I still have a huge hard-on" 02:38:02 cirque de soleil is like that for me too 02:39:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:55:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:30:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:48:58 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 04:36:54 oh: "a one-hit pony" 04:37:21 Does "oh" stand for "overheard" or for the word "oh"? 04:38:28 'overheard' in this case 04:39:44 adjunctions are p. good 04:40:35 cool 04:40:55 oh: oh 04:43:05 /ignore is a bad solution to irc problems 04:45:04 did you say that in response to somebody i have /ignore'd? 04:45:22 no 04:46:35 "06:46 Ignoring ACTIONS TOPICS from is" 04:46:49 good move 04:47:03 is? 04:48:29 well that's what irssi responded to your fine command above 04:49:16 ah 04:58:50 @tell Taneb Fourier is what makes computer tomography work. I keep finding this amazing. 04:58:50 Consider it noted. 04:58:58 hm? 04:59:27 tomography is the future 04:59:36 (yestegraphy is the past) 05:00:06 oerjan: Chirplet transforms are where it's at hth 05:01:05 *chirp* 05:02:06 @tell Taneb *computed, apparently 05:02:07 Consider it noted. 05:09:39 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:20:38 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:23:40 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 05:47:33 Sgeo_: `olist tomorrow? 05:48:25 I estimate the probability of an `olist tomorrow to be in the range [0,1] 05:48:36 hth 05:51:32 we'd like a smaller range twh 05:52:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:53:27 (0,1) is probably reasonable and is a smaller range hth 05:53:39 thanks 05:54:02 Sgeo_: imo that range is no smaller hth 05:54:34 -!- Bike has joined. 05:55:45 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:58:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:02:06 I should sleep 06:03:44 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 06:03:47 Sure, if you're a coward. 06:27:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: See you next time.). 06:28:54 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:45:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:14:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:19:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:42:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:44:15 -!- augur has joined. 07:46:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:46:59 -!- augur has joined. 07:48:12 -!- augur_ has joined. 07:48:16 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:03 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:34:47 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:45:16 ion: Do you have Gobby? 08:48:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:11:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:11:32 Oh no! 09:11:37 Oh no! 09:12:11 Taneb: You should do ion's exercises with Mu and Nu. Learn about fixed points and things. 09:12:56 Remember how I said that I was going to read things from the Further Reading section of this book? 09:13:04 No. Which book? 09:13:21 It has no further reading section! 09:14:08 14:01 In Pursuit of the Unknown: 17 Equations That Changed the World by Ian Stewart 09:14:12 17 equations that changed the world by Ian Stewart 09:14:16 OK. 09:14:34 well, you could read other books instead 09:15:53 Although the book is cheating- chapter 11 has 4 equations 09:16:12 Are there 17 chapters? 09:16:19 Maybe only one of those 4 equations changed the world. 09:16:42 There are 17 chapters 09:17:06 It's the Maxwell equations 09:17:34 Oh. 09:17:46 Well, those didn't really change anything. They just described the world. 09:18:41 I think the title is using "changed"in a more metaphorical sense 09:19:28 Now, Newton sure did change the world. 09:19:51 If it hadn't been for that jerk inventing we'd still all be flying around. 09:20:25 s/w/gravity w/ 09:20:34 Newton got two chapters to himself! 09:21:17 see? jerk 09:21:41 Taneb: i think you _can_ write maxwell's equations as a single one with the appropriate 4-vector formulation. 09:22:00 oerjan, fair enough 09:22:50 Also, I reread the chapter on Fourier transforms and it seemed much nicer this time 09:25:29 shachaf: Yeah, i have gobby. 09:25:48 shachaf: no one is disputing that newton was a jerk hth 09:26:01 oerjan: did newton discover jerk 09:26:09 possible. 09:26:22 i doubt he discovered acceleration 09:26:35 no, galileo had that one down 09:26:47 ion: if you want we can go through things in it in gobby, if you haven't figured everything out by now 09:26:48 shachaf: The progress so far. No Nu NatF yet, no conversion between anything either. https://gist.github.com/ion1/5947427 09:27:30 shachaf: Thanks, i’ll ask you about that later. I’ll let my nephews do some minecrafting on my computer now. 09:27:39 Hmm, what's Blah? 09:28:06 I have no idea, but it let me define zero, succ' and toInt nicely in the end. :-P 09:28:26 And i was thinking perhaps i’d try to define the same functions for Nu as well. 09:28:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:29:55 I think you might be going down a misleading path. 09:29:59 Or, at least, an unusual path! 09:30:01 I bet 09:30:46 I’ll get some help from you when i come back, but now: nephews. :-) 09:30:48 Thanks 09:30:56 hi nephews 09:31:02 wait, you have nephews? 09:31:05 imo weird 09:36:12 Huh 09:36:43 Marconi developed radio on THIS VERY ISLAND!! 09:37:18 the island of ... hexham? 09:37:32 Wight 09:37:39 I am on holiday 09:38:47 hang on 09:38:50 something is weird about unicode 09:39:04 1F0AA PLAYING CARD TEN OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AB PLAYING CARD JACK OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AC PLAYING CARD KNIGHT OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AD PLAYING CARD QUEEN OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AE PLAYING CARD KING OF SPADES [] 09:39:14 is it just me or is there something... comissing 09:40:24 Oh, come on. That's an inequality, not an equation! 09:41:10 Taneb: an equation is nothing but an isomorphism in a poset category hth 09:41:19 dS>=0 09:42:15 shachaf: did you mean there are 56 and not 52? 09:48:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:50:35 shachaf: Ok, they had to leave already. I’m free. 09:50:52 oh 09:50:56 byephews 09:52:08 shachaf: Oh, it turns out they have a bit more time. Back to Minecraft. 09:52:35 hyephews 09:52:38 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nibling 09:57:37 -!- quintopia has joined. 10:00:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:02:08 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:05:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 10:14:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:17:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:41:03 shachaf: Ok, now they left the computer for real. 10:45:13 hion 10:47:30 hachaf 10:48:05 I haven't used gobby 0.5 before. 10:48:08 New protocol and everything. 10:49:22 hmm, does it have undo yet? 10:49:31 Apparently yes 10:50:01 Oh, undo is good. 10:51:03 unood 10:51:26 https://images.4chan.org/diy/src/1373067876565.jpg 10:52:48 Thinehq. “You didn't log in in the past six months to the AppDB. Please log in or your account will automatically be deleted in one month. http://appdb.winehq.org/account.php?sCmd=login” Because the SQL row takes so much disk space. 10:53:13 I wonder if that means my contributions would be deleted as well? 10:55:34 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:20:09 -!- itsy has joined. 11:36:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:38:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:01:11 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:06:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:22:14 -!- katla has joined. 12:32:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:10:58 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Emotebatch 13:10:59 help 13:11:04 does shubshub have a new name now 13:53:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:53:50 -!- heroux has joined. 13:54:06 -!- sacje has joined. 14:00:39 https://twitter.com/fisa_court 14:23:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:25:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:39:33 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:40:24 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 14:58:22 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 15:25:19 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:25:20 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:52:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:07:55 -!- surma has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:08:19 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:09:31 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:09:31 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:13:06 -!- ggherdov has joined. 16:15:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:29:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:30:53 shachaf: it's weird how the way you write a static method in Rust is you just don't have a parameter named 'self' 16:31:15 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:33:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting). 16:34:53 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 16:36:14 -!- ssue__ has joined. 16:37:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:37:03 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:42:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:48:34 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:50:15 -!- heroux has joined. 17:00:01 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:01:04 has anyone used digitalocean.com? seems like I could get twice the RAM and disk space and 1.5x the transfer for the same price I am paying for Linode now 17:01:09 which makes me a bit suspicious :P 17:02:03 since linode are famous enough that I've heard of them, it would make sense for them to be overpriced 17:03:24 I guess they don't have IPv6 and I would have to deal with US latency for IRC 17:04:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 17:05:21 -!- katla has joined. 17:05:51 Someone i know uses this. http://afterburst.com/unmetered-vps 17:06:37 hmm, that's less RAM than I have now and I think I've heard bad things about OpenVZ? 17:06:54 I'm using Tilaa these days, which I've probably mentioned. (But I'm not using it for anything, so I can't say all that much about it.) 17:06:56 I mean, I want to move off Linode partially because of the security issues, but I am lazy enough that I don't really want to do so for worse performance 17:07:18 fizzie: oh, I think I was going to look at them 17:08:20 fizzie: this is hard if you don't know how much a euro is 17:08:56 hi 17:09:19 fizzie: wow, 4 gigs of RAM for 17 pounds a month? this pricing is weird 17:10:14 :/ 17:10:27 hi katla 17:11:31 Oh, they've removed the traffic restrictions? 17:11:33 I didn't know that. 17:11:52 http://www.click2houston.com/news/kfc-threatens-lawsuit-over-hitler-chicken-restaurant/-/1735978/20875398/-/2clb8u/-/index.html 17:11:57 There used to be a quota for outgoing stuff. 17:12:20 ion: c.c 17:12:20 c.c.c 17:12:21 c.c 17:12:25 I'm using the extra-cheap 256M plan they've apparently stopped selling. 17:12:42 "-- since you just can't be very productive with just 256Mb of RAM or 10GB of disk space --" 17:12:50 Excuse me but I'm being very productive! 17:12:54 where are the servers? 17:13:03 Somewhere around Amsterdam. 17:13:20 (I'm thinking their pricing is because of DRUGZ.) 17:13:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:13:28 well I thought digitalocean sounded too good to be true but this seems rather implausibly cheap even by those standards 17:13:43 do they do IPv6? 17:13:47 Yes. 17:14:01 I wonder what the ping is like 17:14:08 About 42 17:14:19 apparently I have 35 ms ping to my server right now 17:14:26 but I remember it being as low as 15, maybe it's the wifi 17:14:30 or uh 17:14:31 You can try pinging eos.zem.fi too, I think it should answer. 17:14:36 no wait nevermind 17:14:43 my reason for thinking that thinking it's wifi made no sense made no sense 17:15:02 I have a latency of 1.28 ms to my server. 17:15:10 fizzie: hm, about 40 ms 17:15:15 that might be ok 17:15:21 fizzie: how about you let me run irssi on your server as a test :P 17:16:11 haha, and it only costs 51 pence extra a month to go from the storage I have now to doubling the storage, with tilaa 17:16:59 There was something slightly weird about the IPv6 stuff... as in, they configure a /96 network for each host, which is slightly iffy standards-wise -- you're not really supposed to have networks smaller than /64 -- but I guess that's not terribly important. (They also assign a single address out of a proper /64 for the server, so I don't use the optional /96.) 17:17:17 Oh, and the prices don't include VAT. 17:17:21 right, well 17:17:28 all I want is for esolangs.org to be accessible via IPv6 :P 17:17:35 (I think that wasn't shown very clearly.) 17:17:48 is this fancy dutch VAT, or 17:18:04 I don't quite recall how it goes, maybe I should look up the latest invoice. 17:19:13 There's a 21% VAT, which I think isn't any Finnish rate, so I suppose it's Dutch. 17:20:04 (So it's not *quite* as cheap as it might appear on the first glance. Unless you've got some kind of a corporation that can buy it VAT-free.) 17:20:12 okay so I would pay a pound extra to quadruple my RAM 17:20:14 that seems pretty good 17:21:17 idk 17:21:24 there might be a catch 17:21:43 well the catch is I have to use a VPS provider recommended to me by a speech recognition researcher 17:21:56 ouch 17:22:00 idk if that's worth it 17:22:31 ENLARGE YOUR RAM 400% TODAY 17:22:51 300%, kmc 17:22:53 300 17:23:00 need a VPS version of http://downloadmoreram.com 17:23:16 wget http://downloadmoreram.com/server.ram 17:23:16 whats up 17:23:43 ISS 17:24:11 Are you sure? It might be down. 17:25:18 http://iss.astroviewer.net/ says it's somewhere above the Atlantic Ocean at the moment. 17:25:21 I wonder if the image is to scale? http://www.isstracker.com/ 17:25:37 yeah, it's up 17:25:45 (i guess it's probably down wrt most of us) 17:26:23 oh kmc and maybe anyone else: I linked this to bike the other day but maybe you might like it too 17:26:25 ion: That's no moon! 17:26:26 http://wearedata.watchdogs.com/start.php?locale=en-EN&city=london 17:26:47 it's a watch_dogs-style visualization of london made entirely out of public data (tweets, traffic lights, demographic data, building locations, etc) 17:27:25 holy fucking camera controls 17:27:28 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti-. 17:27:39 fiora's such a corporate shill 17:27:41 -!- nortti- has changed nick to nortti. 17:27:50 yes I am actually paid by ubisoft to promote their games 17:27:52 XP 17:27:59 There seem to be .kmz files that put the ISS into Google Earth. 17:28:00 (but seriously the game looked really cool okay) 17:28:12 (As in, show it in the software; not files that ram the station to the Earth owned by Google.) 17:28:37 hello 17:28:38 thank you for that important clarification, fizzie 17:29:48 hi Fiora 17:29:52 hiii! 17:30:18 hope youre having a good day 17:30:59 um... I played some kingdom hearts and went to work so I guess it's okay so far 17:32:48 i like to imagine that at work you quickly switch between irc and kingdom hearts and your actual work whenever a manager walks by 17:33:05 With a BOSS KEY. 17:33:33 Back in the good old days, games had a BOSS KEY that switched from the game screen to some generic "boring spreadsheet and bar plots" screen. 17:33:41 Or at least one game did. 17:33:56 yeah, N has that too, mostly as a joke probably 17:33:57 I don't play kingdom hearts at work xD 17:34:19 uhhuh sure 17:34:24 -_- 17:34:32 http://www.switched.com/2010/03/08/cant-you-see-im-busy-game-cleverly-disguises-your-procrastin/ the first image is the craftiest. 17:34:43 playing game at work sounds like a good way to add tension & heighten the experience to a whole new level 17:35:08 the tension of being at work or the tension of playing a game 17:35:10 really, if you play it right, kingdom hearts is basically a horror game 17:35:55 elliott: the beauty is if you do it right they are one and the same 17:46:25 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 17:54:31 -!- katla has quit (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.). 17:55:44 -!- katla has joined. 17:56:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:57:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 18:06:10 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 18:06:17 -!- surma has joined. 18:07:10 -!- Zerker has joined. 18:15:25 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:21:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:25:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:47:08 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:07:35 -!- conehead has joined. 19:20:17 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:21:22 -!- asdfasd_ has joined. 19:21:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HhYE_ddtQ&feature=youtu.be 19:31:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:33:41 -!- myname has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:34:26 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:36:25 asdfasd_: you are GOMADWarrior right? 19:36:40 no 19:37:08 elliott@solidity:~/.irssi/logs/freenode/#esoteric$ grep 186.222.47.192 *.log 19:37:08 2013-07-07.log:00:18:42 9/-?/!9/-g ;/GOMADWarriorg 8/[g3/bade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.192g8/]g has joined c#esotericc 19:37:11 2013-07-07.log:00:38:43 9/-?/!9/-g 3/GOMADWarriorg 8/[gbade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.1928/]g has left c#esotericc 8/[g8/]g 19:37:14 2013-07-08.log:20:21:22 9/-?/!9/-g ;/asdfasd_g 8/[g3/bade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.192g8/]g has joined c#esotericc 19:37:17 asdfasd_: are you sure? 19:37:26 why? 19:37:28 that's also (a video of) the same game you've linked here several times in the past. 19:38:17 asdfasd_: well, because I figure you're using another name so people don't realise it's you, so you can continue using the channel solely to talk about irrelevant things that nobody has expressed any interest in (e.g. trolling other channels, which already got you banned once). your denial seems to confirm that 19:38:50 irrelevant? you're calling my game irrelevant? 19:38:52 if you have another plausible interpretation I'm open to considering it 19:40:02 well, it's certainly off-topic, which is of course not necessarily a blocker to talking about it in #esoteric. but the only time it has come up here has seemingly been in linking it out of the blue and asking random questions about it that nobody seems interested in 19:40:16 which wouldn't be a problem in itself, but combined with your other behaviour I find it a little dubious... 19:42:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:42:42 Hi 19:42:46 hi Taneb 19:44:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:45:06 asdfasd_: actually it seems you are still in the ban list as 189.34.44.144 so I guess you have just been ban evading for however long? 19:45:21 I'm not that guy 19:45:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:45:45 2013-06-24.log:07:21:47 ^D9/-^D?/!^D9/-^Dg ^D3/asdfasd^Dg is now known as ^D;/GOMADWarrior^Dg 19:45:48 yes you are 19:45:57 nope.. 19:45:57 and now you're doing it in other channels. 19:46:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:46:08 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*bade2fc0@*.186.222.47.192. 19:46:08 -!- elliott has kicked asdfasd_ asdfasd_. 19:46:16 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b GOMADWarrior*!*@*. 19:46:23 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:46:26 yaaaaaaaaay don't evade bans 19:46:33 Bike: I suppose I don't really have to ask what 19:46:42 oh I should ban this nick too I guess 19:46:49 asdfasd_ 19:46:54 even if another "asdfasd" might conceivably be innocent, whatever 19:46:55 what a name -_- 19:46:56 lolwhat 19:46:57 Hold on... elliott has op? 19:46:59 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:47:06 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b asdfasd!*@*. 19:47:08 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b asdfasd_!*@*. 19:47:09 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:47:18 Taneb: he took power in a recent coup 19:47:28 oh, you banned someone and he used webchat? clever ;) 19:47:37 didn't you notice oerjan's decaying corpse 19:47:48 Where does the term "Hamming distance" come from? 19:47:58 ham 19:48:07 Taneb: mathematicians who like to joke about binary vectors a lot 19:48:18 shachaf: so rust lets you do something like template specialization, e.g. struct ScriptView; struct Node { ... }; impl Node { ... } 19:48:19 Richard Hamming, I think 19:48:22 Taneb: kmc stole my reveal on that one 19:48:27 hamming's a cool guy. he has a lecture series on youtube. 19:48:28 for which I can never forgive him 19:48:35 talks about inventing coding theory and stuff. 19:48:44 Hamming windows, Hamming matrix, Hamming numbers, Hamming distance, Hamming bound, Hamming code 19:48:49 the methods defined in that 'impl' block will only be available for Node 19:48:51 Hamming name scheme 19:49:10 he's really hogging so many of these names in math and CS 19:49:10 Servo uses phantom types in this way to restrict what layout vs. JS can do to the DOM 19:49:13 p. cool 19:49:35 Bike I should watch that 19:49:40 i wonder if I can be bothered 19:49:51 I did not realise there was a mister Hamming 19:49:54 i dunno, i couldn't be. 19:50:04 too busy watching lewontin *biology solidarity* 19:50:25 god damn I just realised he has another name 19:50:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:50:30 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b Regis*!*@*. 19:50:32 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:50:36 imo, trolls should stick to one name. 19:51:07 katla: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30 19:51:18 i mean, also, i'd like never watch the AI ones :V 19:54:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:54:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:54:58 I do not know what happened there... 19:55:11 you pinged out 19:55:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:55:22 like pikhq 19:56:22 My phone turned itself off... 19:57:15 shachaf: what do you think of that 19:58:07 kmc: i don't understand what Node has to do with it there 19:58:12 or is it meant to be Node 19:59:33 View is a parameter and ScriptView is a specific instantiation 19:59:38 at least I think that's what's going on 19:59:51 just struct Node really 20:00:01 it's a phantom parameter anyway so it's not used in the body of the struct 20:00:39 oh 20:00:46 Rust scares 20:00:48 they should use lowercase type variables!! 20:00:49 Me 20:01:19 have you considered writing a horror story about rust 20:02:16 I exclusively write action-adventure 20:02:24 action-adventure-horror story about rust 20:02:30 ↑ 20:02:41 Maybe even "action-adventure-horror" isn't good enough. 20:06:26 oh 20:06:32 I didn't need to have that argument with gomadwarrior 20:06:47 since he literally linked it in #haskell 20:06:53 well I guess that was a few minutes into the argument 20:08:36 i just figuratively linked it in #esoteric 20:08:38 !! 20:09:43 set fire to flames 20:12:13 cooool http://lwn.net/Articles/452035/ Android lets you map memory and tell the kernel "hey i'm just using this for a cache, feel free to toss it if memory is tight" 20:12:38 huh, that's kind of cool 20:12:57 it makes sense because every program ever written has like 50 layers of caching 20:13:38 madvise didn’t let you do that? 20:13:59 I guess not. 20:14:05 well that wouldn't really be "advice" although iirc not all madvise thingies are 20:14:11 you'd need some way for the kernel to tell you "oh hey I threw away your memory" 20:14:23 like a callback 20:14:34 yeah, AshMem handles that with an ioctl that you call to "pin" and "un-pin" memory 20:15:01 so like, if you unpin it, it can disappear at any time? 20:15:12 Fiora: clearly you just catch SIGSEGV 20:15:16 when you try to access it 20:15:26 that... that sounds terrible XD 20:15:39 MADV_DONTNEED: Do not expect access in the near future. (For the time being, the application is finished with the given range, so the kernel can free resources associated with it.) Subsequent accesses of pages in this range will succeed, but will result either in reloading of the memory contents from the underlying mapped file (see mmap(2)) or zero-fill-on-demand pages for mappings without an 20:15:41 underlying file. 20:15:56 I think that's different from actually throwing it away, that involves paging it to disk, right? 20:16:08 Something like that but with slightly different semantics would probably work. 20:16:45 that makes sense 20:18:35 interesting 20:18:49 it does seem that in some use cases, you could just check for the page having been zeroeed 20:20:48 that feels like it might be dangerous... 20:20:58 like, let's say the kernel does a context switch in the middle of your cache access code 20:21:04 and when it comes back, the data is zeroed 20:21:07 yeah 20:21:15 and you can't, like, mutex the kernel 20:21:31 you would need to load the whole cache item into registers or non-disappearing memory, and then check if it's zero 20:21:42 so it would be hard to use correctly esp. with compiler optimizations 20:22:00 you'd need to load it atomically, 20:22:01 I think 20:22:03 fiora: Send a patch for lock_kernel(), unlock_kernel() to Linus. 20:22:09 mm 20:22:10 XD 20:22:28 iopl(3); asm("cli"); // problem solved 20:23:07 iopl? 20:24:37 it's a system call on x86 linux that gives a (root privileged) userspace program permission to access IO ports directly 20:24:59 which includes the ability to disable interrupts, for some reason 20:25:29 wow 20:25:34 does that require sudo? 20:25:48 “(root privileged)” 20:26:08 Well, now! CAP_SYS_RAWIO-privileged! 20:26:12 :) 20:26:30 That’s “root” privileged FSVO “root”. ;-) 20:26:47 imagining fizzie sitting in a corner waving a flag labelled "capabilities" while being ignored 20:26:54 yes there are two kinds of POSIX capabilities: the ones that are entirely useless and the ones that can be trivially escalated to root 20:27:20 anyway this system call is possible because the x86 has separate flag bits for IO privileges vs. memory/other privileges 20:27:33 which in theory means you can have, like, a microkernel in ring 0 and drivers in ring 1/2 and userspace in ring 3 20:27:38 in practice nobody does this ever 20:27:51 Hey now, OS/2. 20:27:54 what's the reason that nobody uses rings 1 and 2? 20:28:07 Does anyone still use OS/2? 20:28:10 It may be because, you should have a system call override interface, instead, it might help better than capabilities system in some cases. 20:28:15 Or BeOS? 20:28:52 Fiora: I think it's because most kernels are designed to be vaguely portable, and so they only use hardware features that are common across many architectures 20:28:59 I'm sure there are still people fiddling on Haiku. 20:29:07 Xen does use ring 1 for paravirt guest kernel, I believe 20:29:08 If that counts as being a BeOS user. 20:29:18 And OS/2 uses ring 2 for some privileged code. 20:29:20 kmc: ahhhh. so most architectures don't have an equivalent? 20:29:27 (i.e. just kernel and non-kernel code?) 20:29:29 right 20:30:31 same with x86 segmentation — it can be used to do some cool things, but there's no equivalent on other architectures 20:30:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:30:39 what surprises me about Haiku is that they like, do actual funding 20:30:43 that makes sense, especially given how insane itis 20:30:46 who is putting money into Haiku????? 20:30:52 does... does that mean you can't do, like, Native Client on ARM? 20:31:05 i think they have some other way to do NaCl things on ARM, maybe 20:31:23 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:31:29 They do have NaCl ports for non-i386. 20:31:50 You can't do the segmentation tricks on x86-64 while in long mode either, after all. 20:32:28 elliott: Google, apparently. 20:32:37 fizzie: but why 20:32:49 elliott: (They're in the $5000-$9999 bin of 2013's public-sponsors list.) 20:32:54 That's the harder question. 20:33:23 I’m reminded of AmigaOS’ Disable() for disabling interrupts and Forbid() for only disabling task scheduling. 20:34:07 now I'm remembering OSs class and writing mutexes by disabling interrrupts 20:34:12 and feeling like a very terrible person 20:35:03 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:35:35 420 disable interrupts everyday 20:35:53 -!- Jafet has joined. 20:39:03 * itsy was looking at the new Amiga at the weekend (and also the new MorphOS) 20:41:01 hmm, the logic behind IOPL controlling interrupts might be to synchronize io port access across threads 20:41:13 and pio stuff could have timing constraints that break if interrupts happen? 20:41:36 if nothing else, you could just use your io privileges to disable the interrupt controller 20:42:00 there's a new amiga? 20:43:36 olsner: well you can also have a bitmask of which io ports you're allowed to use 20:43:45 i don't remember the details but it's pretty janky 20:44:05 the port bitmap is quite straight-forward though 20:44:45 btw actual capabilities systems are cool and nothing like the travesty of POSIX capabilities 20:45:02 kmc: @ has them, therefore it is obvious that they are cool 20:45:09 it is trivial 20:48:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:56:21 -!- atriq has joined. 20:56:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:56:41 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 20:59:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:03:49 capabilities is like EROS, right 21:13:09 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:13:58 Like RAMAZZOTTI, right. 21:14:07 oh 21:16:46 > sequence [["FI", "RAMA"], ["ZZ"], ["IE", "OTTI"]] 21:16:47 [["FI","ZZ","IE"],["FI","ZZ","OTTI"],["RAMA","ZZ","IE"],["RAMA","ZZ","OTTI"]] 21:16:51 I don't think POSIX "caps" are entirely like "real" "caps" you'd find in something as fancy as a research OS. 21:17:02 > unwords . map join . sequence $ [["FI", "RAMA"], ["ZZ"], ["IE", "OTTI"]] 21:17:03 "FIZZIE FIZZOTTI RAMAZZIE RAMAZZOTTI" 21:18:29 Oh, that's my full name. 21:19:37 fizzie: I suspect they are entirely unlike those caps 21:24:27 -!- sacre has joined. 21:25:32 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:39:58 kmc: Hmm, I didn't know that. 21:40:41 til. 21:41:06 how goeschaf 21:42:57 hallo shachaf and kmc 21:43:40 hi Gracenotes 21:43:48 * kmc → bike → mozilla 21:44:06 it's nice being employed again 21:46:45 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:48:37 byeegan 22:07:01 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:08:54 ion: hion 22:09:41 I think the next exercises (kind of tricky) are to write inMu :: Functor f => f (Mu f) -> Mu f, outMu :: Functor f => Mu f -> f (Mu f), and the same for Nu. 22:09:46 Or maybe there are other exercises first. 22:10:18 Oh, there's a sort of exercise: Nu Maybe is "bigger" than Mu Maybe. Figure out a Nu Maybe value that isn't in Mu Maybe. 22:15:46 Define Mu and Nu and then we will see about that. 22:16:01 newtype Mu f = Mu { runMu :: forall r. (f r -> r) -> r } 22:16:08 data Nu x = forall x. Nu x (x -> f x) 22:16:36 data Fix f = Fix { runFix :: f (Fix f) } 22:16:44 s/data/newtype/ for that last one. 22:17:01 I think you mean Nu f instead of Nu x isn't it? 22:17:36 Er, yes. 22:17:45 That. 22:21:44 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:22:04 whats the diffrence :/ 22:22:18 :t Nu 22:22:19 Not in scope: data constructor `Nu' 22:22:29 shachaf: you gotta give a talk 22:22:33 it will be the best talk 22:22:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:26:15 what would i even talk about though 22:29:17 well, there was a whole article about type-level fix 22:29:22 Try to talk about impossible things. 22:29:36 basic things like data vs. codata 22:29:45 negative vs positive positions in types 22:30:06 naturals via Mu and Nu is not immediately intuitive 22:30:51 and, I suppose, the entire talk may well be about data vs. codata, and why it can be useful to separate them, even if Haskell doesn't (or is good to separate them? I don't know). 22:31:59 even though lists and colists are very similar, why you might use lists in one circumstance and colists in another 22:32:15 well maybe someone who actually knows about that should talk about it :'( 22:32:17 foldr vs unfoldr. 22:32:22 I don't really know much about it. 22:33:22 there was that interesting article about solving AST typing using fixpoint types 22:34:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:36:52 whats the difference between Nu and Mu 22:37:15 haskell syntax is way too complicated, everything should use GADT 22:39:03 yeah, GADT definitions of Mu and Nu might be nice 22:39:08 I can't do they kind of conversion myself 22:39:10 *that 22:40:54 Haskell syntax is complicated; they should make everything to use macros. 22:41:19 haskell syntax is complicated, they should make everything use semicolons 22:43:01 Glaswegian Algebraic Data Type 22:43:49 Haskell syntax is complicated; they should replace it with XML. 23:03:37 elliott: to answer your question about Servo's user agent: it doesn't have one 23:03:49 cutting the gordian knot as it were 23:04:04 kmc: does it just not send one 23:04:07 it just sends "GET / HTTP/1.0\r\nHost: example.com\r\n\r\n" 23:04:10 HTTP/1.0 [sic] 23:04:20 won't that get it filtered a ton 23:04:24 probably 23:04:41 on the other hand it will get through Gogo Inflight Wifi paywall! (sort of) 23:04:57 how do those paywalls work? 23:05:02 anyway I'll worry about that after I get it to run without crashing 23:05:13 I'm kind of curious, I've always wondered 23:05:19 there are lots of different kinds 23:05:37 oh there's a ksplice blog post about this!!! 23:05:51 https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/coffee_shop_internet_access 23:06:21 by Jessica McKellar who is pretty cool 23:06:26 more recently she wrote a book about Twisted 23:06:31 * Fiora reads! 23:06:34 the python network framework thingy 23:06:49 ksplice blog is very cool 23:07:00 although they deleted some entries when they got acquired by Oracle, I think :( 23:07:08 or at least didn't restore all of them 23:07:20 yeah they've been slowly reimporting them to the new blog engine 23:07:24 I think they're mostly/all up now? 23:07:33 I didn't hear of anything being censored by The Man 23:08:25 oh, okay, good... unlike when OKCupid was acquired. 23:08:30 yeah lololol 23:08:39 they had to remove all the posts about how their acquirer was bad 23:08:47 Fiora: I believe the Gogo one does a combination of IP based filtering, and HTTP Host: header based filtering for certain IPs that they allow pre-payment 23:09:17 and the latter includes some Google servers, so you can run your own proxy on Google App Engine and evade the filter that way, if you just don't send Host: 23:09:23 still, that is a form of censorship, temporarily withholding info 23:09:31 and also a form of time constraints 23:09:56 that is really cool! what would happen though if you tried to use https instead of http? would it be able to redirect you? 23:10:27 Gracenotes: only if deliberate 23:10:39 they just didn't have time to import everything into oracle's shit-tastic blog software 23:10:54 Fiora: generally no 23:11:54 lucky for captive portal operators (and attackers), users ~never type "https://" themselves 23:12:02 I don't know how it's supposed to work in the HSTS world, though 23:12:18 @google operator plays a little ping pong 23:12:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBU4Py5cPg 23:12:19 Title: Operator Plays A Little Ping Pong - YouTube 23:12:29 same 23:17:46 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:31:09 * kmc currently watching https://github.com/mozilla/servo/wiki/Videos-and-presentations 23:34:05 is Servo the best? 23:34:34 not yet ;P 23:34:45 hasn't gotten the kmc touch 23:35:45 lol 23:37:23 "yo peeps i found a security hole, the jit we use for fast gif rendering can be used with that css overflow to execute arbitrary assembly code, as long as it looks like Spanish text" 23:38:52 yo, it's bullshit that I have to be logged in to access https://air.mozilla.org/fireside-chat-3/ 23:39:18 for real 23:40:30 I ain't got time to make accounts or acquire access 23:42:28 get a job at mozilla then 23:45:04 no way man 23:45:08 you have to liberate the data 23:45:18 data wants to be free! 23:45:40 codata wants to be cofree 23:51:38 * copumpkin moos 23:52:46 cowpumpkin 23:53:11 copyonwritepumpkin 23:54:15 hi 23:54:25 cohi 23:55:56 elliott: fun fact: Servo parses images using stb_image.c which the author explicitly says is not for untrusted images (and the Servo team is aware of this, too) 23:56:03 im not interestd in this stupid prorgamming language shit5 23:57:09 what kind of exploits can you hide in image metadata anyway 23:57:28 buffer overflows are common in image parsers 23:57:33 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms04-028 23:57:36 like that one? 23:58:14 speaking of image parsers someone emailed me and wants me to make my gif thing good instead of bad :'( 23:59:09 cool 23:59:10 do they have code 23:59:32 right, programming well is clearly impossible