2013-07-01: 00:00:46 `run echo hi 00:00:51 hi 00:00:56 hm 00:01:45 i think that may be somewhat random hth 00:01:46 ok 00:02:01 (also it means that did not help hth) 00:02:14 or possibly does 00:02:19 it's not that there is a full device or sth ..lol? 00:02:29 of course there is 00:02:34 okay 00:02:45 `echo hi 00:02:48 hi 00:02:57 `? tdnh 00:03:01 tdnh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:03:02 | 00:03:02 o/`¯º 00:03:16 `learn tdnh does not help 00:03:21 I knew that. 00:03:32 this*? 00:03:50 what's the t for? 00:03:59 i think you don't have the spirit of `? hagb4rd 00:04:09 oh 00:04:10 ok 00:04:18 maybe 00:04:33 also it means whatever fits the context hth 00:05:41 ic 00:06:34 -!- hagb4rd has changed nick to halfb4rd. 00:09:24 i'll consider that 00:17:59 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:46:14 why does meta-0 cause a list of local hostnames to be printed, and then 's0' input? 00:46:18 (at a shell) 00:47:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:52:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:53:01 ion: I bet you like Adámek's theorem! 00:55:26 oerjan: help how do i get intuition for limits and things that preserve limits and all that 00:57:49 magic hth 00:58:59 -!- Bike has joined. 01:00:05 shachaf: I love it. 01:20:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:23:28 -!- Bike has joined. 01:29:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:37:14 -!- Bike has joined. 01:43:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:46:03 Have some weird combinators: http://pastebin.ca/2413173 01:48:41 What do they mean, what do they do? 01:49:28 i'm pretty sure cancel's just there to annoy elliott 01:53:13 Why would that annoy elliott? 01:53:41 because he's a constructo-fascist? 01:55:09 -!- sprocklem has joined. 01:57:08 AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System http://youtu.be/tc4ROCJYbm0 01:59:20 cancel (\(\x -> y) -> y) = x 01:59:31 I'm pretty sure that's a legitimate definition. 02:00:25 Albeit rather silly... 02:00:41 It... pattern matches on lambdas? 02:01:32 o.O 02:01:57 Well, here's what it does. 02:02:01 cancel takes a function, f. 02:02:09 supercancel :: (A -o Bottom) -o A 02:02:16 supercancel (\x -> y) = x 02:02:21 >_> 02:02:30 What does -o even mean?? 02:02:42 That function, f :: (A -o Bottom) -o Bottom, will inevitably be called exactly once, with some argument, g :: A -o Bottom. 02:02:52 In turn, g will inevitably be called exactly once, with some argument x :: A. 02:02:56 cancel f returns x. 02:03:06 Sgeo: it pretty much denotes a function. 02:03:11 I assume this isn't Haskell. What language is it? 02:03:38 Linear logic, written like Haskell. 02:05:12 Wait, I got it wrong. 02:05:22 Okay, *here's* what cancel does. 02:06:20 cancel takes a function, f :: (A -o Bottom) -o Bottom. It makes up a function g :: (A -o Bottom) and calls f with it. f will then call g exactly once, with some argument x :: A. 02:06:23 cancel f returns x. 02:09:01 so basically linear logic with continuations? 02:09:31 No, pretty sure this is just plain linear logic. 02:09:54 um you can actually construct cancel? 02:10:10 Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can prove ((A -o Bottom) -o Bottom) -o A. 02:10:36 is it an axiom? 02:10:41 or what axioms do you use to build it? 02:11:02 Uh, lemme see. ((A -o Bottom) -o Bottom) -o A is defined as... 02:11:05 oh hm linear logic is not intuitionistic-like 02:11:30 is A -o Bottom the same as not A again 02:11:37 It's the dual of A, yes. 02:11:45 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:11:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:13:23 That thing is defined as ~(~(~A | Bottom) | Bottom) | A, which is ((~A | Bottom) * One) | A, which, by units, is ~A | A. 02:13:38 So then you can just do an initial sequence. 02:14:04 yeah, but I mean if all you have are axioms and you want to do some natural deduction to get at that 02:14:06 what would you do? 02:14:45 Uh, I guess first you use the initial sequent inference rule to get ~A | A. 02:15:12 Then, uh... 02:15:35 hi copumpkin 02:15:44 i bet you like fixed points 02:15:46 hi 02:15:52 Something complicated involving the cut rule... 02:15:59 shachaf: no, I hate them 02:16:38 copumpkin: good 02:16:47 -!- Bike has joined. 02:16:52 copumpkin: can you tell me a haskell type that has more than 2 fixed points but not infinitely many? 02:17:11 what's a fixed point of a type 02:17:35 Bike: Nat is a fixed point of Maybe 02:17:53 I've always wanted the "->" in "\x -> y" to be an infix operator whose arguments are \x and y. 02:17:55 shachaf: no, but perhaps that Tree^7=Tree thing might inspire you? 02:18:06 or was it 4 02:18:06 And that's because there's a continuous bijection between Nat and Maybe Nat? 02:18:24 right, nevermind 02:18:25 continuous? 02:18:44 Continuous. 02:18:51 Continuous! 02:19:04 what does continuous mean :'( 02:19:18 The inverse image of every closed set is closed. 02:19:18 what are the open sets in Maybe 02:19:56 I guess all subsets of Nat are open. 02:20:01 And all subsets of Maybe Nat are open, too. 02:20:24 btw Maybe has more than one fixed point 02:20:27 clopen 02:20:38 do we have to use the strong topolgy 02:20:54 A subset S of Maybe t is open if and only if the set of x such that Just x is in S is open. 02:21:03 copumpkin: just clopen your mouth thx 02:23:28 -!- sacje has joined. 02:23:34 :( 02:23:42 Here's my latest attempt at defining cancel: 02:23:43 cancel f = (f (\x -> )) x 02:24:04 hmmm 02:24:08 shachaf: but seriously what's a fixed point. 02:24:15 also is it type or type constructor or what. 02:24:20 i dunno man. i like fixed points . help 02:24:22 copumpkin: hey it's not my fault your mouth is a continuous function :'( 02:24:36 @hug copumpkin 02:24:36 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 02:24:48 til about linear logic 02:24:56 linear logic is teh shitznit 02:24:59 duh 02:25:07 Bike: A fixed point of F is an X such that X = F(X) 02:25:15 yes 02:25:18 now i must sleep 02:25:26 ♞ 02:25:33 but like 02:25:35 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 02:25:37 Maybe Nat isn't Nat 02:25:43 Bike: But it's isomorphic. 02:25:44 Bike: sure it is 02:26:14 Bike: A fixed point of F is an X such that X ≅ F(X) # hth 02:26:14 Okay, suppose that f = \g -> g 5. Then cancel f = (f (\x -> )) x = ((\g -> g 5) (\x -> )) x = ((\x -> ) 5) x = 5. 02:26:16 Right? 02:27:05 This makes perfect sense and is absolutely correct. 02:27:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:30:46 Bike: What kind of fixed points do you like? 02:31:15 ones that make sense. 02:31:36 -!- augur has joined. 02:31:39 converse f = (f (\g -> x)) (g, (\x -> )) 02:31:56 Bike: You can represent natural numbers are follows: Nothing, Just Nothing, Just (Just Nothing), ... 02:32:04 s/are/as/ 02:33:03 sure 02:33:10 that has even less to do with Nat. 02:33:17 ? 02:33:46 There's an obvious isomorphism to natural numbers. 02:33:48 You were saying that F was Maybe (: * -> *) and X was Nat (: *) 02:33:54 Right. 02:34:06 Now you're talking about some other isomorphism for some reason. 02:34:19 I am? 02:34:29 Nothing :: Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe ... 02:34:32 Just Nothing :: Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe ... 02:34:35 Just (Just Nothing) :: Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe ... 02:34:46 That type on the right is a fixed point of Maybe. 02:35:07 In particular it's the least fixed point of Maybe (let's say). 02:35:17 And it's obviously isomorphic to Nat. 02:35:44 a -o b = (not a) par b = not (a times (not b)) 02:36:56 so ((a -o bottom) -o bottom) -o a = not (((a -o bottom) -o bottom) times (not a)) 02:37:36 Is (∀r. ((A -> r) -> r) -> r) isomorphic to (A -> Void)? 02:37:38 so what's another fixed point of Maybe. 02:37:58 I think the operator in linear logic which corresponds to the bottom of intuitionistic and classical logic, is zero, not bottom, isn't it? 02:38:02 Bike: Conat 02:38:06 Bike: I.e. Nat + infinity 02:38:13 cancel (f, acont) = f acont 02:38:33 Nat + infinity in such a way that you can't tell them apart, of course 02:39:23 did anyone see my fancy agda with conats? 02:40:08 https://gist.github.com/copumpkin/4647315 ? 02:40:22 yeah 02:42:31 * shachaf should write some Agda. 02:42:33 It looks like fun. 02:45:58 copumpkin: Nu is so great imo 02:45:59 best type 02:46:04 but it has a bad name 02:46:17 maybe i should call Mu Lfix and Nu Gfix................................................! 02:46:25 @let data Metal a = Metal a 02:46:26 Defined. 02:46:28 :k Nu Metal 02:46:29 Not in scope: type constructor or class `Nu' 02:46:29 Perhaps you meant one of these: 02:46:29 `Num' (imported from Prelude), 02:46:54 foiled again 02:47:03 @let data Nu f = forall x. Nu x (x -> f x) 02:47:03 Parse failed: Illegal data/newtype declaration 02:47:16 curses, foiled again 02:47:39 hey should i read http://bentnib.org/posts/2013-03-29-productive-coprogramming.html y/n 02:51:24 yes 02:52:00 good thing i'm already reading it 02:52:25 "2 l8" 02:53:22 tswett: "I'm not sure my syntax doesn't suck." -- that's modal logic hth 02:53:57 ~Necessary(~Sucks(MySyntax))? 02:54:21 Right. 02:55:00 I wonder if I can express the function (A & B) -o A in my syntax. 02:55:33 Seems pretty straightforward: fst (x | _) = x 02:55:53 Except that uses case analysis, which, so far, I haven't actually used at all. 02:56:14 Which suggests that maybe case analysis just isn't necessary ever. 02:57:50 Lessee, that's the same as (((A -o Bottom) + (B -o Bottom)) -o Bottom) -o A... brb installing relief valves in my brain so it doesn't explode 02:58:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:59:07 Huh, yes, the + appears in a positive position there. 02:59:23 No case analysis necessary. 02:59:29 weerd 02:59:42 tswett: that's not case analysis, it's picking an element from a tuple... 02:59:49 There's only one case. 03:00:02 Unicasal case analysis. 03:00:36 Except the adjective form of "case" is actually... "capsular"? 03:00:51 No, that's the other type of case. 03:01:46 And I think that would actually be "capsal". 03:01:54 This one would be "casal", yeah. 03:04:56 fst = Left id ? 03:05:20 I think that would be (A -o A) + B. 03:05:58 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 03:06:36 well i'm just thinking of + as Either 03:07:45 so Left is how you construct one 03:07:52 Now my syntax is a little bit more explicit. Brackets essentially mean "run this calculation in parallel", and then a period means "this calculation is finished". 03:08:07 Here's my new definition of cancel: cancel f = [f (\x -> .)] x 03:09:14 argh whatever 03:09:25 how is that unique to linear logic? it seems like the usual continuationey shit you can do to "prove" LEM? 03:09:40 I still do not understand it very well. 03:09:41 How is what unique to linear logic? 03:16:44 Woohoo, implementations of everything: http://pastebin.ca/2413195 03:19:06 The dot *usually* occurs inside the corresponding pair of brackets. Like, in the definition of cancel, those brackets are defining x, and the corresponding dot comes after \x. 03:19:27 It looks like the only exception is converse, where the brackets are defining g, but the dot comes after \x. 03:43:57 I keep reading "converse" wrong in my head. I'm reading "cónverse", the noun, but it's supposed to be "convérse", the verb. 03:44:56 since when is ´ used to indicate emphasis :'( 03:45:02 :´( 03:45:14 Since Spanish. 03:45:33 spanish, more like bad use of acute accentish 03:45:43 i thought in english you used ` for that. 03:45:56 Yeah, I know, right? The Spanish language pretty much consists entirely of bad diacritics. 03:46:26 The word for "penguin" is "pingüino". What the hell? Why is the diaeresis over the first vowel instead of the second? And "üi" is a diphthong there! 03:46:47 Bike: I thought that ` merely indicated that the vowel is pronounced. 03:46:54 p̈ïn̈g̈üïn̈ö 03:47:09 As in "learnèd". The stress definitely goes over the "learn", not the "èd". 03:47:54 oh i guess you're right. sucks 03:48:05 help i'm not good at categories proofs :'( 03:48:26 i think you mostly just say things commute 03:48:43 i heard bicycles are good for commuting 03:48:51 yes 03:49:27 I'm not sure this syntax I came up with is equivalent to any existing syntax. 03:50:33 but ok at least i follow the proof of lambek's lemma now 03:50:36 Also it's not very good. [(\x -> .) x] is equivalent to "let x = x". But you can't use x afterward, so I guess it's okay. 03:50:47 p. good lemma 03:51:08 HTH. 03:51:54 I like how nlab has two different proofs of the lemma, one of which is a dual of the other (but written differently). 03:51:55 shachaf: have you seen my agda version of that?! 03:52:06 Bike: You forgot to say that things are just duals of other things. 03:52:12 Even less work than commutativity. 03:52:20 nopumpkin 03:52:30 i think you'l find that duality is the dual of commutativity. 03:52:46 https://github.com/copumpkin/categories/blob/master/Categories/Functor/Algebras.agda#L97 ? 03:52:47 https://github.com/copumpkin/categories/blob/2d44e3babb5108ea9b6bd5994c21f4a2278525d1/Categories/Functor/Algebras.agda#L97 03:52:49 yes 03:53:02 Is the commit version better than the master version? 03:53:06 no 03:53:14 just what the search box took me to 03:53:26 copumpkin: have you considered agda + support for commutative diagrams hth 03:53:32 nope 03:53:50 well i'm patenting the idea hth 03:53:55 k 03:54:02 ddarius doesn't like commutative diagrams. 03:54:09 Except when he does? 03:54:17 Has he moved to the good coast yet? 03:54:25 don't think so 03:54:43 I should do his exercise. 03:54:48 He gave me an exercise. 03:55:00 I think I may have seen spoilers while reading nlab... 03:55:29 copumpkin: That proof looks reasonably straightforward, except for all the Agda noise. 03:55:56 Actually that part looks straightforward too. 03:56:20 In fact this whole lemma is completely obvious. Why did they bother giving it a name? 03:56:55 [that formalist quote] 03:57:30 copumpkin: So now can you get the dual of the lemma for free by telling Agda to, like, dualize the proof and stuff? 03:59:18 copumpkin: So an initial algebra is also a coalgebra. Is it a special coalgebra in some way? 03:59:36 It's initial in the category of coalgebras that are also isomorphisms, but that's not saying much. 04:09:54 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:12:30 don't think it's particularly special, no 04:12:40 sorry, trying to do something before I go to sleep, not checking IRC much :) 04:12:52 I can't get the dual for free right now but it might be possible to define something that lets you 04:12:56 haven't thought about it much 04:13:13 I have various kinds of free duals attached to things 04:13:28 you can get an "opposite functor" for free, and obviously an opposite category 04:14:31 Is Smyth and Plotkin's lemma another name for Lambek's lemma? 04:14:38 Oh, no, it's saying something a bit stronger. 04:17:13 Is there any Haskell library for defining chess variants? 04:20:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:23:19 copumpkin: I guess it's sort of special in that it gives you an embedding from Mu to Nu, maybe? 04:23:52 In Haskell you can do it with Fix without a Functor constraint. It seems to me that Fix is rather fishy, though. 04:32:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:36:17 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:50:49 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 04:55:39 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:59:43 Bike: ok i'm getting annoyed by not knowing things about fixed points 04:59:45 Bike: plz help 04:59:51 which things 05:00:02 like why do they exist 05:00:04 in haskell 05:00:36 you realize i know, like, negative amounts of haskellmath. i'll just confuse you worse as i try to figure out what hte fuck you're saying. 05:01:02 good 05:01:05 negative haskellmath! 05:01:09 is that like virtual species 05:01:12 hth 05:01:19 fuck, probaby 05:01:21 l 05:01:27 copumpkin: you should do an agda proof that Mu F is an initial F-algebra 05:01:32 ht 05:01:32 h 05:01:39 i like how "virtual species" is a combinatoric thing and also a bikeology thing 05:02:31 copumpkin: i would do it but i'd have to, like, learn agda and stuff 05:02:59 shachaf: I can't define Mu in Agda directly 05:03:16 Why not? 05:03:42 oh I guess your form of it might work 05:03:49 actually no 05:04:14 Why not? 05:04:34 maybe it does, I dunno 05:04:36 try it out :P 05:06:28 I don't even know how to type those fancy characters. 05:06:36 then learn! 05:06:39 isn't that what you do? 05:07:11 Me? Do I look like a learnin' person to you? 05:08:44 imo copumpkin should come to san francisco to talk about agda and categories at bahaskell 05:09:05 :) 05:09:51 maybe copumpkin isn't cool enough to come to san francisco yet :'( 05:10:12 clearly not! 05:10:12 i heard that's the main requirement 05:10:31 why do people come into #language and "'«challenge'”» everybody to explain why they should use language 05:11:30 yo people tell me why I should use esoteric languages 05:11:44 Bike: Wait, is it chord? 05:11:49 brainfuck is web-ready and has access to java libraries 05:11:57 yes 05:12:21 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/13.01.29 05:12:33 have fun with chord 05:12:41 oh, fucking great 05:13:12 "how does a functional language like Haskell implement a hash table as an array?" omg 05:13:35 It gets way better. 05:13:42 More chord fun after you've finished that one: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/13.02.23 05:13:43 what the hell 05:13:57 what's with this phd crap, what the shit. 05:14:07 "tac has always been skeptical of computational complexity" also 05:16:05 Bike: Wait, Zhivago is in ##lisp? 05:16:16 yeah that fucker's everywhere 05:16:37 i thought of Zhivago as a ##c person 05:16:42 i know right. 05:17:33 Oh, y'all in #lisp have a lot of familiar names from various places. 05:17:46 like zRecursive 05:17:49 and Bike 05:18:00 and Quadrescence 05:18:05 Whoa Man 05:18:23 yay that means I know a famous freenode person? 05:18:33 i am the famousest. 05:18:38 Fiora: Who? 05:18:42 at least three distinct people have heard of me 05:19:02 bike, clearly 05:19:08 Oh, Bike's famous? 05:19:20 hi Bike 05:19:22 sorry, I was responding to what you said 05:19:23 there are rumors that a fourth person has heard of me. 05:19:25 hi shachaf 05:19:29 Oh, I said familiar. 05:19:37 As in I know of them from other places. 05:19:40 As in #esoteric. 05:21:26 also ##bike 05:21:38 not bike approved tho 05:21:47 22:21 [@ChanServ] [ shachaf] 05:21:53 i meant in the past 05:21:56 the ##bike past. 05:42:03 -!- carado has joined. 06:10:07 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:16:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:17:45 -!- Bike has joined. 06:19:29 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:31:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:32:22 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:50:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:51:56 -!- Bike has joined. 06:56:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:02:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:05:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:27:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:50:20 Here is a chess problem: White pawns on f2 and e7, king on e6. Black pawn on g5 and king on e8. White to play and win. 07:50:47 Can you draw it for me? I don't know chess notations. 07:54:47 4k3/4P3/4K3/6p1/8/8/5P2/8 w - - 0 1 is the FEN, you can paste it into any decent program 07:56:19 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:12:40 Okay, I have finally found a replacement for Google Reader 08:13:53 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:24:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:40:37 taneb: which one? 08:40:47 bazquux 08:41:54 www.bazqux.com 08:42:00 It's not free, but I like the interface 08:44:22 free as in free f-algebra 08:48:03 It's written in Haskell and Ur/Web, I believe 08:48:26 because RSS feeds are surprisingly computationally expensive, whatwithallthe parsing. 08:48:51 at least such that a static compiled language would have some advantage, probably, or something. 08:48:56 zzo38: What's the dual of CodensityAsk? 08:49:02 (More commonly known as Free.) 08:49:58 shachaf: I don't know if there is clearly the dual..... 08:49:58 Is a cofree comonad a cofree f-coalgebra? 08:50:13 * ion drinks some ffee 08:50:20 I think CofreeComonad f a = exists x. (x, x -> (a, f x)) 08:51:49 So maybe Cofree (Coalgebra F) = CofreeComonad F? 08:52:17 Oh. 08:52:26 Maybe CofreeComonad f a = exists x. (a, x, x -> f x) 08:52:29 That makes more sense! 08:52:51 Er, wait. 08:52:55 No, it makes no sense. 08:53:28 So how do you express CofreeComonad without the ugly functor composition? 08:54:06 it is dangerously difficult to distinguish between sense and nonsense in this area 08:54:30 Actually there are two things known as Free, and CodensityAsk is different anyways because it does not take a class as its parameter. 08:54:47 But all three of these things are related. 08:54:52 I'm talking about newtype Free f a = Free { runFree :: forall r. f r -> (a -> r) -> r } 08:55:41 Yes, that one is basically the same as what I made up, although other things have been called Free, too. 08:55:47 That's just data Free f a = Pure a | Free (f (Free f a)) in CPS, right? 08:56:10 Taneb: No. 08:56:11 you can get a lot of things for free 08:56:11 Taneb: No, that's be newtype FreeMonad = FreeMonad { runFreeMonad :: (a -> r) -> (f r -> r) -> r } 08:56:13 At least when f is a Functor 08:56:26 Aaah 08:56:32 Taneb: Free (Algebra F) = FreeMonad, where Algebra f a = f a -> a 08:56:41 Which corresponds to the notion that a free monad is a free f-algebra. 08:57:07 (Although in mine, I also had that if f is a comonad, then it makes a MonadPlus.) 08:58:32 That way even gives you a Maybe monad, Either monad, and "disjunctive state monad". 08:58:45 The cofree comonad on an endofunctor H on C is given by DA =df νX.A× HX 08:58:47 (i.e., the carrier of the final A × H(−)-coalgebra, which is the cofree H-coalgebra 08:58:50 on A). 09:00:42 final indeed 09:01:03 So how do you express Cofree? 09:07:27 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:09:07 ("Disjunctive state monad" = CodensityAsk (Store s). It uses <|> to compose state, and this is achieved for free.) 09:18:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:23:27 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:26:37 -!- Halite has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:29:51 -!- atriq has joined. 09:30:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:30:31 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 09:35:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:39:39 -!- augur has joined. 09:45:06 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:45:18 -!- augur has joined. 09:48:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:50:44 -!- augur has joined. 09:52:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:54:12 -!- augur has joined. 09:54:51 -!- carado has joined. 09:55:13 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:57:04 -!- augur has joined. 10:03:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:14:32 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 10:18:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:23:41 -!- olsner has joined. 10:28:44 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:34:53 -!- augur has joined. 10:35:22 zzo38: Cofree f a = exists x. (x, x -> a, f x) 10:35:49 ( Saizan++ ) 10:43:11 cofree of what again? f-algebra? 10:44:11 Well, a Cofree F-Coalgebra is a cofree comonad. 10:45:40 -!- olsner has joined. 10:50:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:55:27 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130701-ieeepub.png oh, so that's what it looks like. 10:58:09 the eic looks very happy about receiving the paper 11:00:50 Do you think non-continuous chess variants don't have a number of dimensions? 11:01:40 mnoqy: It's what gives their life meaning! I think. 11:05:56 http://www.chessvariants.org/index/displaycomment.php?commentid=29981 Can you play the Fukumoto variant? 11:15:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:20:33 "The King's security is more important than the King himself." -- The Hitchhiker's Guide to Chess 11:20:51 zzo38: What do you think of Cofree? 11:21:05 shachaf: I don't know. 11:21:19 Cofree (Coalgebra F) = CofreeComonad F 11:21:30 (And of course Free (Algebra F) = FreeMonad F) 11:21:57 Using your definition, let's see. Yes, that seems correct to me. 11:33:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:57:56 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 12:01:10 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:07:47 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:40:44 -!- itsy has joined. 12:43:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:44:12 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:44:15 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:44:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:44:51 Hello 12:45:17 Hello AnotherTest :-) 12:47:36 what have I done http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17378961/elegant-way-to-implement-extensible-factories-in-c/17404774#17404774 12:50:26 This might be fun - http://tnmoc.org/summer-bytes (Summer Bytes Festival in UK) 13:16:37 -!- sacje has joined. 13:23:45 -!- halfb4rd has quit (Quit: halfb4rd). 13:31:38 20:33:22: wtf http://www.wekkars.com/ 13:31:39 help. 13:33:01 Signed esolangs.org up for it already, did you? 13:33:45 https://twitter.com/wekkars i just... 13:33:48 is this real 13:36:12 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2013-07-02: 00:09:50 shachaf: 00:09:51 `slist 00:09:53 Happy? 00:09:55 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:09:57 uh wasn't it `olist 00:10:09 ==Bike 00:10:13 i don't see an olist update 00:12:00 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:15:21 hey HackEgo got fixed? 00:15:27 Gregor: hi 00:17:30 `echo hi 00:17:32 hi 00:17:58 i doubt Gregor was involved 00:18:23 `? #esoteric 00:18:26 ​#esoteric is the only channel that exists. monqy is its centroïd. 00:18:28 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:18:41 help???? 00:18:52 `run rgrep -l monqy wisdom 00:18:55 wisdom/#esoteric \ wisdom/monqy \ wisdom/mnoqy \ grep: wisdom/lystrosaur: Not a directory 00:19:04 help 00:19:04 i wish i was a centroid 00:19:53 `run ls -l wisdom/lystrosaur 00:19:55 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 19 May 14 18:41 wisdom/lystrosaur -> wisdom/lystrosaurus 00:20:02 `run ls -l wisdom/lystrosaurus 00:20:04 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 131 May 14 18:39 wisdom/lystrosaurus 00:20:13 `run cat wisdom/lystrosaurus 00:20:15 lystrosaurus is a genus of Late Permian and Early Triassic Period dicynodont therapsids, which lived around 250 million years ago. 00:20:20 @hoogle (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> Maybe b 00:20:21 Prelude mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m () 00:20:22 Control.Monad mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m () 00:20:22 Control.Monad forM_ :: Monad m => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m () 00:20:23 is rgrep some kind of stupid program 00:20:34 a stupid dumb program, imo 00:20:48 also none of those are what i want ;_; 00:20:58 what do you want 00:20:59 also the're ike all the same thing practically anyway 00:21:13 a thing that takes the first Just 00:21:18 imo listToMaybe . map f 00:21:24 :t listToMaybe 00:21:25 [a] -> Maybe a 00:21:43 > listToMaybe [4,5] 00:21:45 Just 4 00:21:50 bad name imo 00:21:56 but the function is "o k" 00:21:57 > listToMaybe [Nothing,5] 00:21:58 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 00:21:58 arising from a use of `M1950116903.sh... 00:22:04 ok awesome 00:22:15 > listToMaybe [Nothing,Just 5] 00:22:16 Just Nothing 00:22:23 wow a+ 00:22:33 wait i didn't even give you the right function 00:22:35 ok that was mean sorry. 00:22:42 :'( "mixed up" 00:23:00 @hoogle [Maybe a] -> Maybe a 00:23:01 Control.Monad msum :: MonadPlus m => [m a] -> m a 00:23:01 Data.Generics.Aliases orElse :: Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Maybe a 00:23:01 Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a 00:23:07 > msum [Nothing,Just 5] 00:23:08 Just 5 00:23:19 hmmm 00:23:23 Bike: lens has a way to do it but maybe you don't want lens 00:23:26 > msum [Nothing, Just 5, Just 7] 00:23:27 Just 5 00:23:27 `run sed -i 's/lived/ruled the world/' wisdom/lystrosaurus 00:23:32 No output. 00:23:57 well, ok. i've officially decided that, like, whatever. 00:24:13 firstOf (traverse . _Just) [Nothing, Just 5, Just 8] 00:24:14 oh 00:24:18 (it's not much of an exaggeration, even) 00:24:29 :t (listToMaybe . catMaybes) 00:24:30 [Maybe a] -> Maybe a 00:24:32 is this like not a common thing i'm doing. it doesn't seem that weird 00:24:56 > (listToMaybe . catMaybes) [Nothing, Just 6, Just 7, Nothing] 00:24:57 Just 6 00:25:08 :t catMaybes 00:25:09 [Maybe a] -> [a] 00:25:45 Bike: sry 4 inkonvenience !! 00:26:00 k 00:26:07 Bike: what haskell program aer you writing 00:26:15 *are 00:26:27 i'm not sorry 00:26:30 just wonder ing 00:26:45 why aren't you sorry 00:27:00 because i'm mean 2 elliott 00:27:59 Bike: what was wrong with msum twh 00:28:20 nothing. shachaf just kept going for some reason? 00:28:23 `? lystrosaur 00:28:24 lystrosaur? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:28:25 | 00:28:25 º¯`\o 00:28:25 what's twh? 00:28:29 wat 00:28:35 "that would help" / "that was helpful" 00:28:42 well 00:28:45 that was helpful 00:29:01 `ls wisdom/lystrosaur 00:29:05 ls: cannot access wisdom/lystrosaur: Not a directory 00:29:16 sheesh 00:29:30 `run ls -ld wisdom/lystrosaur 00:29:31 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 19 May 14 18:41 wisdom/lystrosaur -> wisdom/lystrosaurus 00:29:42 `? lystrosaurus 00:29:46 lystrosaurus is a genus of Late Permian and Early Triassic Period dicynodont therapsids, which ruled the world around 250 million years ago. 00:29:48 oh 00:29:54 broken link.............................. 00:30:19 oh hm 00:30:40 `run ln -s lystrosaurus wisdom/lystrosaur 00:30:41 ln: accessing `wisdom/lystrosaur': Not a directory 00:30:50 ln -sfT hth 00:30:53 or something like that 00:31:01 wtf is going on here 00:31:08 `rm wisdom/lystrosaur 00:31:13 No output. 00:31:17 `run ln -s lystrosaurus wisdom/lystrosaur 00:31:21 No output. 00:31:23 oerjan: just edit `? instead of making symlinks hth 00:31:26 `? lystrosaur 00:31:28 lystrosaurus is a genus of Late Permian and Early Triassic Period dicynodont therapsids, which ruled the world around 250 million years ago. 00:31:42 people do you need to know this much about lystrosaurs 00:31:55 need you ask 00:31:55 Bike: lystrosaurs were awesome hth 00:32:56 Bike is feeling listless about this wisdom entry 00:33:02 yes 00:33:14 oops i meant to type lystless 00:49:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:50:05 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-commerce#Timeline '1971 or 1972: The ARPANET is used to arrange a cannabis sale between students at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory and the Massachussetts Institute of Technology, later described as "the seminal act of e-commerce"' 00:50:31 imo, history is the best. 00:51:22 i like that nobody remembers which year it was 00:52:51 forgetful functors, all of them 00:53:49 do you know the ""dual"" of boehm-berarducci/church/whatever encoding works 00:54:11 it seems like it encodes products using products and sums using sums :'( or something 00:54:32 no i don't know 00:54:43 is "boehm-berarducci encoding" really a thing 00:54:48 i call bullshit on that encoding sir 00:54:52 @google boehm-berarducci encoding 00:54:55 http://okmij.org/ftp/tagless-final/course/Boehm-Berarducci.html 00:54:55 Title: Boehm-Berarducci Encoding 00:55:00 oleg said it 00:55:01 checkmate?? 01:36:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:47:20 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 01:55:53 there was a sign in the pride parade reading "Support undocumented APIs!" 01:56:01 (it stands for "asia-pacific immigrant" apparently) 01:56:06 haha 01:56:13 nice 01:57:06 ahaha 02:04:37 -!- Bike has joined. 02:14:08 http://abload.de/img/obivankenobi6js1k.jpg 02:15:00 is the city on the lower half supposed to be easily recognizable? 02:15:07 yea 02:15:29 it's Obivankenob, Russia 02:15:38 but actually it's Washington DC 02:15:39 obviously. 02:15:59 washington monument on the left, looking down the national mall at the capitol 02:16:04 obivanken oblast 02:16:05 i was laughing my ass out 02:16:10 but yea 02:16:18 hagb4rd: sounds messy 02:16:30 i dunno, the joke is so cheap i don't think they make coins that small 02:16:43 depends on the level of despair 02:16:45 1 satoshi joke 02:19:19 @google site:esolangs.org star wars 02:19:20 No Result Found. 02:22:43 I'm writing a description of what a lambda calculus-like thing whose type system is linear logic would look like. 02:22:49 Some of this stuff I'm writing seems kind of lofty. 02:23:17 "A Zero is an impossible object that can never be obtained, but if it could be obtained, then it could be turned into anything." 02:23:34 "A Top is a garbage pile; anything can be turned into a Top, but nothing useful can be done with a Top, and a Top can never be gotten rid of." 02:29:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:30:21 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 02:30:24 I can't figure out what a Bottom is. It seems like it also can be freely created and destroyed, yet surely it's not the same thing as One. 02:30:34 Which I'm describing as "a worthless object that can be freely created or discarded". 02:32:01 plain old bitch object 02:32:28 `? pobo 02:32:30 pobo? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:32:31 | 02:32:31 º¯`\o 02:33:00 _o) 02:33:14 °_o 02:33:14 | 02:33:14 º¯`\o 02:33:33 is that sexist? imo probably 02:33:40 no 02:33:45 i am a bitch too 02:33:54 and i am male 02:34:03 that's not really how it works 02:34:57 well in any case it's not sexist 02:35:18 i'd be happier if you didn't say it 02:35:28 dunno about others 02:35:31 why is tjat 02:35:34 hagb4rd is of course an authority on what is and isn't sexist 02:35:43 here is what just happened: "that's sexist" "no because i say it's not" "that's not how it works" "ok well anyway it's not" 02:35:49 yes 02:35:50 having a phd in whatissexistology 02:35:53 that is what happened 02:36:02 Actually, the authority on what is and isn't sexist is a nontrivial ultrafilter. 02:36:07 ++ 02:36:23 There's a function that, given the set of all people who think something is sexist, determines whether it's sexist or not. 02:36:59 If it says "yes" to two sets, it also says "yes" to their union. If it says "yes" to a set, it says "no" to its complement. And changing one single person's opinion never changes whether it says "yes" or "no". 02:37:00 you just hang up on that 02:37:06 hagb4rd: whether you meant it to be sexist is not v. relevant to whether it is 02:37:14 thats so 18th centuriy 02:37:18 hth 02:37:19 in which case it's just a mistake; I'm not accusing you of malicious behavior 02:37:27 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:37:33 (maybe a better statement is "don't use slurs"?) 02:37:33 rip 02:38:53 yeah what Fiora said 02:39:16 i need food and sleep and stuff though 02:39:27 those are good stuff 02:39:28 ttyl all 02:39:43 goodnight kmc 02:40:16 n8 kmc 02:40:24 (probably not going to sleep right now, but i *will* fall asleep if I don't eat something) 02:40:28 Hm. I'm beginning to think that my intuition of what the dual means is wrong. 02:40:55 You can combine a thing and its dual to get a Bottom, right? But I don't think Bottoms can just be created and destroyed. 02:41:00 weirdly enough eating things makes me fall asleep instead -_- 02:41:15 i pretty much fall asleep whether i eat things or not, i think. 02:41:47 digestion needs a lot of o2 02:42:17 energy and stuff.. im sure you know better 02:49:04 Okay, I think a Bottom is actually an object that cannot be created and cannot be destroyed, and this is its defining quality. 02:51:17 here is what just happened: "that's sexist" "no because i say it's not" "that's not how it works" "ok well anyway it's not" <-- you somehow missed the meain arguments bike.. i cannnot figure out the properties of "bitch" that depend on gender.. ergo: not sexist 02:51:40 Doesn't "bitch" usually mean "contemptible female person"? 02:51:43 your own ignorance is not a great defense 02:51:54 so because you can't figure something out... it becomes a universal truth? 02:52:01 like I said, I'm not accusing you of malice, just a mistake 02:52:32 "A female dog or other canine. In particular one who has recently had puppies." "(vulgar, offensive) A despicable or disagreeable, aggressive person, often female. [from the 15th c]" "(vulgar, offensive) A submissive person, often female, who does what others want; a slave. [from the 20th c]" 02:52:37 hope this helps!! 02:52:43 so fiora: you think only women are bitches.. or only men..or waht is your opinion? :O 02:52:53 "bitch" is not always applied to women, but it definitely has that connotation (and when applied to men it's often like "you're bad because your qualities are like that of a woman") 02:52:55 i'm wondering 02:52:58 wow that has nothing to do with what she said at all 02:53:27 you are the sexist kmc 02:53:33 qed 02:53:52 -!- Fiora has left ("seriously not bothering with this, last time this came up half the channel literally came out and argued why the n-word is not in fact racist because they say so"). 02:53:59 rip 02:54:09 I pretty much haven't heard "bitch" applied to men except as a term of endearment. 02:55:09 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o kmc. 02:55:18 that's because emancipation is done 02:55:34 not 02:55:50 -!- kmc has kicked hagb4rd hagb4rd. 02:56:03 He was already banned once, can't you do it again? 02:56:17 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:56:25 maybe later 02:56:31 seriously need to go though 02:56:36 Seeya. 02:56:37 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o kmc. 02:56:45 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v kmc. 02:56:49 peace + love to y'all 02:57:21 Adiós. 02:57:28 help 02:57:33 hi kmc 02:57:35 what happened 02:58:07 Hagbard made an ass of himself. Really glad we gave that guy another chance. After he was already creepy. 02:58:39 kmc is an op? 02:58:42 elliott is an op? 02:59:06 All I know is Gregor is voiced. 03:00:38 -!- Bike has left ("yeah whatever, i'm trying to concentrate anyway"). 03:00:44 shachaf: ais523 left, so we needed some new ones. 03:00:52 ais523 left? 03:01:08 left-left or just left? 03:01:41 he said we never speak about esolangs any more, so didn't see a point in staying. 03:01:55 Huh. 03:02:06 well, that's p. true 03:02:13 He seems to have a misunderstanding about how IRC tends to work. 03:03:07 Maybe there should be another channel which is like #esoteric except without ostensibly being about esolangs. 03:03:20 #esoteric-blah 03:03:28 I was about to say that. 03:03:35 And also without people like hagb4rd. I didn't read the hagb4rd scrollback but the part I did read didn't look promising. 03:04:58 Or maybe I'm just biased against hagb4rd. 03:06:19 Oh well. I don't know. 03:09:48 Did you know that anyone can talk about any topic? It is true, no need for prior self-education. 03:15:03 well ais523 also said he didn't have anything esolang-related going on himself. 03:16:44 So how do you Nu-encode arbitrary types? 03:17:06 I guess [] becomes List a = exists x. (x, x -> Maybe (a,x)) 03:17:36 Is there some generalization of this such that e.g. you can get Yoneda and CoYoneda through the same process that gives you Mu-lists and Nu-lists? 03:19:23 kmc: Do you know if Mozilla would be willing to host bahaskell and/or bacat meetings at the Mountain View and/or SF offices, by the way? 03:19:47 I know there's been some trouble finding venues, especially ones in SF near Caltrain. 03:20:13 I guess Mozilla isn't all that close to Caltrain in SF. 03:25:10 -!- carado has joined. 03:29:26 shachaf: just host them _on_ the Caltrain hth 03:31:10 hundreds of dollars to the VTA 03:31:56 the ventral tegmental area needs the money 03:51:34 what's with all computers getting touchscreens these days 03:56:19 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:59:43 oerjan: why are products dual to functions :'( 04:00:28 i thought they were dual to sums hth 04:01:35 oerjan: well forall is dual to exists hth 04:01:44 and forall is a function and exists is a product 04:03:25 Need a gaming laptop very soon 04:03:51 the verb "game" irritates me imo 04:04:54 Must be sure not to game any systems near shachaf 04:05:32 Wait, I thought gaming was an adjective in the context I used it in 04:06:40 when your only game is nethack, every laptop looks like a gaming laptop 04:06:41 hth 04:18:01 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:18:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:22:55 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:26:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:54:10 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:09:32 -!- Bike has joined. 05:19:37 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Lindrum. 05:20:05 -!- Lindrum has changed nick to Sgeo. 05:30:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:31:57 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 05:33:08 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:34:09 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:36:37 -!- Fiora has joined. 05:39:22 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 05:41:06 shachaf: I don't know, but can find out sometime 05:44:00 also I must point out that VTA does not operate Caltrain 05:45:47 oh but they're one of the member agencies of the Peninsula Corridor Joint Powers Board 05:46:03 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:46:35 Caltrain is owned by the JPB and operated by... *googles* TransitAmerica Services, Inc., on a 5 year contract 05:46:38 hi kmc 05:46:43 hichaf 05:46:48 hi 05:46:54 i convinced goldstein to buy a bike and also lend it to me for a week 05:48:10 everyone wins 05:48:44 i guess you're not taking caltrain every day 05:56:01 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:57:22 no 06:00:34 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:05:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:08:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:09:16 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 06:12:06 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 06:13:04 http://www.dailydot.com/business/reddit-quickmeme-banned-miltz-brothers/ 06:18:33 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 06:30:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:31:51 "K-M-C takes the morning train / he works from nine till five and then / ..." 06:44:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:44:58 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 06:49:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 06:50:39 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:57:16 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 07:03:00 Gracenotes: instead of watching C++ talks you should prove the initiality of in : F (Mu F) -> Mu F for me 07:04:34 it is not initial 07:04:43 help 07:04:43 this is because there is no proof of it 07:04:59 are you some kind of anti-constructivist 07:07:06 I use the law of the excluded everything. 07:07:40 the law of excluded evidence 07:15:54 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:06:16 If you add the "oracle operator" that I have discussed before, then is oracle(x) -> not(x) consistent? I wouldn't think so, but probably it depends on what logic is in use. 08:08:30 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:13:40 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:13:54 I wonder if the oracle operator is itself inconsistent; probably not by itself, but maybe there will be paradoxes if you add additional rules that are using them. 08:25:16 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:37:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:45:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:02:09 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:07:06 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:38:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:40:05 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:44:49 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:45:37 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:45:54 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:08:02 `olist 11:08:04 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 11:08:59 Thanks, Sgeo! 11:10:33 Sgeo: By the way, you can give `olist a number. 11:10:39 That way we know whether we've seen the strip before. 11:11:06 897 11:11:28 Yep. 11:11:36 You can just pass that as an argument. 11:11:40 FireFly's innovation, I believe. 11:34:35 `olist elliott 11:34:37 olist elliott: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 11:34:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 11:35:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:35:12 whoah, shift-click parts? 11:36:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:38:52 Phantom_Hoover.................. 11:39:13 so hang on, if i... 11:39:17 `slist shachaf 11:39:18 slist shachaf: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 11:42:08 -!- variable has joined. 11:43:55 s? 11:44:56 `run head -n 2 bin/olist 11:44:58 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ shachaf 11:45:03 oops 11:45:03 help 11:45:07 sorry shachaf 11:45:08 ugh what did hagb4rd do 11:45:10 homeStuck 11:45:27 Taneb: oh I thought that was `list 11:45:41 Nah, `list is the list of people on the list 11:45:48 :) 11:45:55 Naturally 11:46:06 Try it and see! 11:46:53 I don't think this channel needs more nickpings for now 11:47:12 Even in /msg! 11:47:48 Anyway, I'm off now 11:47:50 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:48:36 welp now I scrolled up I'm going to do this and if anyone objects they can revert since afaict everyone is sick of him and at least two people have parted for it 11:48:39 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 11:48:51 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b hagb4rd!*@*. 11:48:52 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 11:49:17 kmc: btw what's with not having voice?? you gotta have voice 11:54:59 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 11:57:30 `relcome ohnowhy 11:57:33 ​ohnowhy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 11:59:02 hi 12:01:59 hi 12:09:26 hi 12:23:02 hi 12:23:44 mnoqy: im, like, so hi right now 12:23:56 hi 12:24:06 exactly 12:24:07 like that 12:31:16 -!- katla has joined. 12:40:24 we hied 12:40:43 what's a hied 12:40:46 oh 12:40:49 arent there much more people here than usual? 12:41:23 there's usually about this many I think? 12:41:31 but not like most of them talk much or at all 12:42:07 no, we just stare 12:42:13 at letters 13:02:23 are you somebody we know 13:08:15 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:13:13 -!- katla has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:13:19 -!- katla has joined. 13:13:29 -!- katla has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:13:35 -!- katla has joined. 13:13:40 -!- katla has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:13:47 -!- katla has joined. 13:14:22 -!- katla has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:14:28 -!- katla has joined. 13:14:56 katla: hello 13:15:29 depends, if this is the same we we are talking about 13:15:43 what we are you talking about 13:17:28 -!- katla has changed nick to Guest99408. 13:18:09 my we was #esoteric! 13:19:05 -!- katla has joined. 13:19:28 in that case, probably not. but what can one know, anyway. 13:20:35 lots of things 13:20:40 like who you are!! 13:20:59 Who's ohnowhy? 13:21:17 it is a mystery 13:21:27 ohnowhy: Who are you? 13:21:29 I cant process "who". what is easier 13:21:42 What was your previous nick here? 13:21:47 what is ohnowhy... the great mystery 13:22:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:22:19 no previous incarnation, sry 13:22:32 we're all reincarnations. or something. 13:22:40 (this channel is about esoterica, right?) 13:22:49 anyway hi 13:22:54 -!- Guest99408 has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 13:22:55 not the roald dahl kind of esoterica 13:23:01 `relcome ohnowhy 13:23:04 ​ohnowhy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:23:10 tnx, katla. 13:23:15 and all. 13:23:34 what is esoteric. kind of exclusive knowledge group etc 13:23:42 closed circle. 13:23:47 yes 13:23:59 wytchkraft 13:24:18 also, I guess. I dont use the word much 13:25:29 well, about me... today I was playing the guitar in the garden, and beside me, my neigbour was drawing something. the joke is, that we are in quite bad relations... but the moment was nice. strange, but nice. now you know, who I am. 13:25:55 damn 13:25:58 that's deep 13:26:04 OK, who do we know who was crazy? 13:26:34 i totally get that ohnowhy 13:27:04 Phantom_Hoover: everyone 13:30:41 -!- boily has joined. 13:31:47 everyone? possible. 13:31:49 hi boily 13:32:50 ohnowhy: how'd you find this place 13:35:11 elliott: hi! 13:36:35 <`^_^v> We can't start the cabal with a newcomer in here. 13:37:11 it's ok, I will put you to ignore 13:38:37 I'm absent for three weeks and what do I know, there's a new cabal. 13:38:39 wow ignoring people, rude!! 13:38:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v boily. 13:39:05 boily is the new cabal president 13:39:16 @where cabal-cabal 13:39:16 http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cabal-cabal.xhtml 13:39:59 @elliott> I know. its a self sacrifice 13:39:59 Unknown command, try @list 13:40:00 * boily grins, smiles and stretches his zygomatics 13:41:02 and the new plot is: 13:41:31 btw lambdabot doesn't like people who ping with @ :P 13:41:42 no one likes people who ping with @ 13:41:58 was that too mean 13:42:03 <`^_^v> @shachaf #nottrue #yolo 13:42:03 Unknown command, try @list 13:42:36 you're all terrible :( 13:43:19 @lambdabot you're worse 13:43:19 Unknown command, try @list 13:44:20 Hmm, you should be allowed to @-address someone if they're (actively) an op. 13:44:21 lambdadot, not me. am from another all. 13:45:38 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:45:51 brb putting everybody to ignore 13:46:17 shachaf.... 13:46:25 help 13:46:51 are you abusing the admin bug again......... 13:47:06 the bigger abuser here is you 13:49:40 ok, now I know who he is XD 13:50:01 who[m] who is 13:50:06 help 13:50:25 elliott, the bigger abuser 13:57:18 * Fiora waves to elliott 13:57:58 hi 13:58:58 Oh, Fiora is back. 13:59:06 hi Fiora 13:59:09 I just slept -_- 13:59:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 13:59:51 hagb4rd is banned now, fwiw. 14:00:09 Well, you /parted the channel last I saw. 14:03:12 oh, sorry 14:03:36 uhm, stupid question: since when does lambdabot talk? 14:03:41 elliott: people get banned from here? XD 14:04:36 Fiora: well, kmc and me got opped. so now we just have to come up with plausible excuses to ban everyone and we will be able to rule #esoteric from a throne of the bones of our enemies. 14:04:45 at least that's the plan. 14:06:03 you can start by getting rid of the robots before they revolt on us 14:06:42 * boily pets his very gentle and nice and cuddly bot 14:07:29 revolt? pfft, we're already in power. 14:08:52 re. stupid question: I'm getting more and more disturbed by lambdabot. 14:09:26 shh. don't worry. in fact, don't even think about it. 14:14:02 as long as you don't [KWATZ!] me, I think I'm fine. 14:20:38 elliott, imo ban Deewiant 14:20:58 is this what oerjan has to deal with :P 14:21:29 no 14:25:22 so who are the ones that get to talk the most here? 14:25:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:26:03 I get to talk the most. if anyone talks more than me they're in big trouble 14:26:13 I get it. 14:26:42 so what's your trouble? 14:26:48 elliott should talk with me! 14:26:53 But then if elliott talks too much I track him down and... do what needs to be done 14:27:16 how can you do that when we have established that the universe will end once you find him 14:27:42 I go on IRC and say "Hey, elliott, if you don't shut up I'll end the universe I swear to god" 14:28:46 gods. you never have enough of them. 14:28:54 after you end the universe, will god still exist? 14:29:27 she'll probably just remake the universe without you this time around? :p 14:30:43 dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/universe conv=noerror && shutdown -r now 14:31:22 but the universe's code is written in ~ATH! 14:31:41 ... which I guess ironically fits the channel topic of esoteric languages... 14:32:42 whoa, on-topic in #esoteric? risky. we don't do that. 14:33:01 can't believe nobody's made a ~ath esolang to date tbh 14:33:32 Phantom_Hoover, I bet there's one somewhere on the MSPA fora 14:33:35 ~duck ~ATH 14:33:36 --- No relevant information 14:34:10 Taneb, imho find it 14:34:23 http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/~ATH#Specification 14:35:34 the only interesting information i get from that is that the null program is not valid in ~ath 14:38:24 later, priests n witches 14:38:43 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 14:39:44 `pastequotes 14:39:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27269 14:44:29 `quote 1021 14:44:30 1021) shachaf: make friends. help people. find ways to help people be happy. hug people. have fun. make the world a little bit better. 14:44:38 Fiora is an inspiration to us all 14:44:53 I feel like I've said that exact sentence before 14:45:21 Taneb: you've been fioraed. accept the positivism. 14:45:23 `quote inspiration to us all 14:45:24 I... I think you did 14:45:24 534) Dear god stop staring at me. no never monqy is always staring at everyone. it takes many eyes to do this but I manage He is an inspiration to us all. 14:48:06 is this homestuck thing boring? 14:48:09 yes 14:48:16 okay so im not crazy 14:48:18 well, not at the start 14:48:26 i love the pants off the start 14:48:40 ive spent like 30 pages just clicking the only possible option and all hes doing is talking about stacks and hammers and nails 14:48:40 katla, yeah, at one point some guy has a bomb on his head and a penis in his hand. 14:48:46 (wow that turn of phrase is really sexual...) 14:49:07 Phantom_Hoover: ideally you would have said that before taneb kind of overshadowed it 14:49:14 dammit 14:49:23 get the quote right though Taneb! 14:49:33 he has a hat full of bomb, a fist full of penis, and a head full of empty 14:49:37 Yup 14:49:54 its linear though 14:49:56 am I missing something 14:50:08 Yeah, the fact that it's a linear story 14:50:14 the prompt thing is basically vestigial 14:50:17 Like many other stories 14:50:24 homestuck takes a while to get started 14:50:27 geez i thought it was a game 14:50:38 at the start after each comic the fans would have a chance to put in the next command, but that was steadily phased out 14:50:39 an i click a wrong option and got onto some trick railway line 14:50:48 the first act is a bit nutty and silly and it takes a while for everything to start coming together 14:51:11 but once it does you get this wonderful crazy cast of characters and the stakes rise and soon it's universe-scale and wonderful 14:51:20 okay ill stick with it 14:51:41 (i don't think homestuck actually has any branch points any more) 14:52:14 it has silly things like character select screens where you can go watch each individual story 14:52:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestuck#Plot <-- actually an incredibly good summary? XD 14:52:53 though I guess a little spoilerish. 14:53:28 yeah 14:53:46 I definitely looked at homestuck last when it did have bbranchpoints and I think I was lost 14:53:48 -!- Nick3 has joined. 14:54:02 also like, near the start, hussie was letting readers choose the actions of the characters 14:54:10 which is part of why it got incredibly weirdly silly 14:54:22 but I think he slowly eliminated that through the first few acts 14:54:32 Nick3: hi ohnowhy 14:55:19 hi. linux. 14:55:35 i wonder what the last true user command 14:55:36 wsa 14:55:38 was 14:55:59 tahw? 15:06:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:08:03 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:08:56 hmm 15:09:22 is there a name for when there's one family name with a ridiculous proportion of the population 15:09:29 like kim in korea or nguyen in vietnam 15:10:37 alpha-name 15:11:44 i think you are taking the micky 15:12:22 gods... 15:15:11 -!- Nick3 has quit (Quit: endthis). 15:23:33 I have come up with similar conclusions about linear logic Zero, Top, and One as tswett, such as, Zero cannot be made and Top cannot be used. 15:32:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:24:15 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has joined. 16:24:23 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Changing host). 16:24:23 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has joined. 16:25:13 `relcome TheM4ch1n3 16:25:15 ​TheM4ch1n3: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:28:20 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:28:43 -!- TheM4ch1n3 has joined. 16:39:08 -!- conehead has joined. 16:40:55 PLASMA PHYSICS. 16:41:26 (The 40th EPS Conference on Plasma Physics is being held at the moment at Dipoli, in Otaniemi, Espoo, Finland, Earth.) 16:41:42 Espoo? 16:41:53 ...so it seems. 16:42:07 Many people think it's the same thing as Helsinki. 16:42:15 I thought you'd have been making up at least half of those names 16:42:25 Shows how much I know about the proud peoples of Finland. 16:42:32 After all, the former Helsinki University of Technology campus was at Espoo. 16:42:36 Or are they actually proud? Shows how much I know about the peoples of Finland. 16:43:01 I think we're not extraordinarily proud, but somewhat regularly proud, in general. 16:43:30 Oh, that's always good. 16:44:00 http://satwcomic.com/proud-finland -- #1 hit for "proud finland" 16:44:21 The "retarded lion" comic was a good one. 16:44:43 You can learn much about the proud peoples of Scandinavia-and-such from that webcomic. 16:45:08 that comic is awesome 16:50:55 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:56:07 -!- conehead has left ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"). 16:56:11 -!- conehead has joined. 17:00:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:06:29 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:17:41 A short notation for 6502 assembly codes, like I have described before, could make the source of this program much shorter: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Unofficial_MagicKit_Assembler 17:18:56 -!- katla has changed nick to Guest63410. 17:19:15 -!- katla has joined. 17:21:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:25:31 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 17:26:35 -!- Guest63410 has quit (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.). 17:36:57 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 17:40:15 -!- ohnowhy has left. 18:03:05 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:17:25 -!- `^_^v has joined. 2013-07-03: 00:00:06 it assumes that we have already dealt with the fact that there is a king of france... which we haven't 00:02:21 it's kinda like having the equation 1/x = 3 is satisfied when x = 0 : it doesn't make sense 00:03:39 wat 00:03:52 that's a lot of activity on the Deadfish page today... 00:04:42 well, "1/1 = 3" is obviously false, and "1/(1/3) = 3" is obviously true, but "1/0 = 3" simply doesn't make sense 00:13:01 shachaf: So, what *was* the channel with all the #haskell metadiscussion? 00:13:08 other than this now 00:13:20 ? 00:13:53 Ah. 00:14:18 I assume it was johnw /msging byorgey. 00:14:33 It's one of those things he does. /msging people, I mean. 00:14:55 Ah. 00:15:12 He should be careful, some people are allergic to MSG. 00:23:11 shachaf: 17:22 < strcat> Option<~T>, Option<&T> etc. turn to a nullable ptr 00:23:26 kmc: I heard about that. 00:23:32 thats weird 00:23:41 is Option special-cased 00:23:46 Works for any enum, doesn't it? 00:24:03 shachaf: you were asking if Option< Option > was broken, but I don't think it is, because Option is not a non-nullable pointer type 00:24:37 imo they should turn enum Foo { Red, Blue, SomethingElse } into {0x0, 0x1, validPtr} 00:24:57 kmc: Ah, makes sense, I suppose. 00:25:16 kmc: have you convinced them to make their syntax less wack yet 00:25:45 what's wack about their syntax 00:26:04 everything 00:26:10 shachaf: yeah a runtime check of /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr 00:26:59 elliott: it's not special cased by name, but by structure 00:27:20 kmc: you can just require the bottom page not to be used in rust programs 00:27:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:27:29 so types isomorphic to Option also get it 00:27:30 shachaf: true 00:27:32 then you can go up to 4096-enums "good enough 4 me" 00:27:54 fsvo "require", you can't enforce it when a C program calls a Rust library 00:28:02 or even the other way round really 00:28:59 Hmm, aren't pointer values in the bottom page often considered invalid in C programs for some other reason? 00:30:13 many C programs are designed this way 00:30:30 I don't know what the spec says, other than that the numeric literal "0" gives you a NULL pointer whose use in various ways is UB 00:30:40 it might not even be represented the same way as an integer zero, of course 00:31:19 if( !x ) has to be the same as if( x == NULL ), right? 00:31:44 no 00:31:46 -!- Bike has joined. 00:31:58 No? 00:32:11 #define NULL 1 00:32:23 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:32:31 I thought NULL had to compare as false... 00:32:42 like, NULL isn't necessarily 0, but it has to compare equal to 0 00:32:58 (My "No?" was addressed to katla, not Fiora.) 00:33:01 "not zero but another number of the same name" 00:33:09 oh 00:33:20 sorry 00:33:33 I thought I was responding to katla 00:33:41 I thought so too. 00:33:43 secretly, everyone was responding to Bike 00:33:58 we're getting a serious Bike infestation in here 00:34:06 they're doubling every few minutes 00:34:09 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:34:13 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 00:34:15 oh that's better 00:34:18 Only the one true Bike shall stand 00:34:32 the two true Bikes 00:34:36 the one true Unike 00:34:37 hth 00:40:35 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:41:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:42:05 Unicode seems to have “DIRECT CURRENT SYMBOL FORM TWO” and no other forms. Theother one is called “AC CURRENT” instead of, say, “ALTERNATING CURRENT SYMBOL”. 00:43:01 http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn27/ 00:44:21 bless you, unicode 00:44:22 that doesn't include it oh no 00:44:23 blunicode 00:44:45 i love how many of them are bad transliterations of non-IE languages 00:45:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:46:16 which reminds me, is anyone here as annoyed as me (level: "mildly chuffed") that news organizations can never agree on how to transliterate Arabic or Persian or anything 00:46:36 Well, that's hardly unique to news organizations. 00:46:51 I keep seeing Morsy and thinking Morrissey 00:47:11 is it as bad as irish "man just throw some i's in there, also some h's while we're at it" orthography 00:47:19 well 00:47:27 don't they at least usually agree on how many i's to throw in 00:47:56 kmc knows what happens when you throw too many 'i's into one letter 00:47:57 no (i guess i'm talking about, like, broader goidelic names here) 00:49:29 i admit i know shit all about irish 00:50:07 anyway the fact that news organizations do it is important because: they're the ones i'm immediately annoyed at 00:50:31 according to wp there was also a spelling reform which included such highlights as beirbhiughadh => beiriú 00:51:10 so like i can only assume the bh, gh and dh were just there to fuck with people 00:51:32 O_o 00:52:11 i think the worst individual transliteration cases i can think of though are the name of the mongolian conqueror, and the name of the former president of Libya 00:52:53 ah, you mean dschinghis khan? 00:53:03 yes ;_; 00:53:32 Did you mean: bear hug edh, beiried, bear birth, beer buddha 00:54:07 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:54:18 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 00:54:34 genghis khan? 00:54:52 sure, if you want to use the old fashioned transliteration 00:54:55 Bike: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5365283/regular-expression-to-search-for-gadaffi 00:54:57 i've actually seen dschinghis in print 00:55:17 yeah that's good 00:55:41 My history textbook called him Chinggis. Maybe we could just go with Temujin 00:56:11 "dschinghis" seems very weird too 00:56:23 kmc: our professor actually introduced regular expressions to us with that one 00:56:26 literally not kidding XD 00:56:29 Genghis Khan's name is spelled in variety of ways in different languages such as English Chinghiz, Chinghis, and Chingiz, Chinese: 成吉思汗; pinyin: Chéngjísī Hán, Turkic: Cengiz Han, Çingiz Xan, Çingiz Han, Chingizxon, Çıñğız Xan, Chengez Khan, Chinggis Khan, Chinggis Xaan, Chingis Khan, Jenghis Khan, Chinggis Qan, Djingis Kahn, Russian: Чингисхан (Čingiskhan) or Чингиз-хан (Čingiz-khan), etc 00:56:44 Fiora: haha 00:57:00 or maybe it was something similar 00:57:19 doesn't genghis khan's wikipedia article open with like ten names 00:57:24 Fiora: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dschingis_Khan it seems to be pretty standard in German 00:57:33 maybe they removed them 00:57:41 Djengis in Afrikaans, oh man, i need to look through these now. 00:57:51 I guess it feels like it's extra consonants? 00:57:53 but it's german 00:57:55 so 00:57:59 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dschinghis_Khan 00:58:11 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 00:58:25 Xenxis, in... I don't know this language 00:58:45 language x 00:58:45 Asturian. 00:58:58 one of the billion languages of spain, right 00:59:03 misspelt austrian 00:59:05 what... was wrong with genghis 00:59:19 didn't kill enough people 00:59:19 it's not really descriptive of the pronunciation, I think 00:59:23 it's more of a "ch" sound at the start 00:59:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:59:36 and i ean it's a transliteration from what, the 18th century? it's gotta be shit 00:59:39 mean* 00:59:42 I think people like to pronounce "ge" like in... "get"? 00:59:50 but it's more like "tsingis" 01:00:06 i'm tempted to say 'that's not really worth the bother' here 01:03:01 -!- glogbot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:03:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:03:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:04:33 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:04:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:04:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:05:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:06:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:08:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:09:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:10:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:10:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:10:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:26 -!- glogbot has joined. 01:11:27 what the fuck is this 01:11:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:11:31 ithkuil 01:11:32 is this machine generated 01:11:37 no it's art 01:11:39 beauty 01:11:43 it sounds welsh 01:12:00 more like zalgokuil 01:12:07 it sounds like a barcelonian failing to pronounce Dungan 01:12:18 also bbl 01:12:20 ps give me something else to translate into ithkuil 01:12:25 it was actually a nice adventure 01:12:27 lord's prayer? 01:12:31 what no thatd take a month 01:12:46 first bit of lord's prayer in non-archaic english 01:12:47 like, a 3-4 word sentence kinda thing, something cute 01:13:09 Schleicher's fable? 01:13:12 nooodl: how about "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" 01:13:23 ps verbs have cases in ithkuil but the online guide doesn't tell you how to use them... 01:13:27 elliott, that's good 01:13:36 you have to pronounce it and upload it though!! 01:13:40 i'll try 01:13:50 my ithkuil pronunciation is probably "subpar" 01:14:02 Efter foondin the Mongol Empire an being proclaimed "Genghis Khan", he startit the Mongol invasions that woud ultimately result in the conquest o maist o Eurasie. 01:14:16 scots is great 01:14:31 is there an ulster scots wikipedia yet 01:14:42 Mony o these invasions also resultit in lairge-scale slaughter o the local populations an ar no viewed positively in these parts o the warld today. 01:14:46 i mean, you could literally run a simple filter over the english wikipedia to get the same results 01:14:49 what is the point 01:14:58 it's cultural etc. 01:15:00 "no viewed positively" <3 01:15:16 yeah if they want to have their own language more power to 'em 01:15:21 i still think it's funny to see 01:15:21 http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer 01:15:33 (ulster scots is even more cultural etc., in that it's basically the result of a game of linguistic one-upmanship with irish) 01:15:34 is "dickery" a scots word 01:16:03 wait, is ulster scots what they pretend to speak in northern ireland, or 01:16:31 well it's the dialect of english spoken in ulster 01:16:38 http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#OUTRAGED oh my god 01:16:44 The Ithkuil equivalent to a subordinate clause is called a "case-frame." 01:16:45 except that being in ulster there's a bunch of sectarian politics involved 01:16:47 i can't wait 01:16:48 oh, they're what you call people americans call "Scots-Irish" 01:16:51 your name is way better than ours 01:17:10 elliott: what the hecks 01:17:14 A'v ne'er unnerstuid ootrage aboot Scots projects like this Wikipedia. 01:17:20 i don't know what "jaxie" is 01:17:23 ootrage 01:17:34 Is this the real Scots language or are you just putting a sort of traditional highlander accent on and spelling words as they sound...I mean is there a dictionary or something which can prove these words are real? 01:17:46 this is really good 01:18:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 01:18:10 -!- aloril has joined. 01:18:10 COTTISH PEOPLE SPEAK ENGLISH, NOT THIS SHIT PICTURED ON THIS SITE!!! wrote some random guy from Texas 01:18:17 funetik aksents! 01:18:50 i like the quoting of the "UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS" 01:18:57 scots wikipedia: highly serious 01:18:58 there's a wikipedia in west-vlaams: http://vls.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voorblad 01:18:59 have i mentioned, that's why i gave up on stross 01:19:14 because he talks funny? 01:19:23 (i don't know if he talks funny) 01:19:38 because he writes his characters with these egregious scottish accents 01:19:41 rendered phonetically 01:19:50 "THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS IS JUST FRACTURED ENGLISH, WITH WORDS BEING WRITTEN AS THEY SOUND TO SOME PEOPLE, AND IS NOT AN ACTUAL LANGUAGE!" 01:19:50 «Ulster Scots, the local dialect of Lowland Scots, which has, since the 1980s, also been called 'Ullans', a portmanteau neologism popularised by the physician, amateur historian and politician Dr Ian Adamson,[15] merging Ulster and Lallans - the Scots for Lowlands[16] - but also an acronym for "Ulster-Scots language in literature and native speech"» awesome 01:19:58 unfortuantely the scots have yet to realise this 01:20:05 "No, we get it. Feel free to read other parts of the internet that are solely in English. There's quite a lot of it. Come back when you've finished that off, and we'll talk." 01:20:25 i mean it's like writing a book set in kent and having everyone talking about how they're getting in the caah 01:20:31 and also in limburgs... http://li.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veurblaad 01:20:41 why are there multiple dutch dialect wikipedias 01:20:55 there's wikipedias for the two norwegian languages too 01:21:00 s/languages/dialects/ 01:21:14 haha drawing a distinction 01:21:35 :'( 01:21:38 also isn't bokmal and the other thing, like, written 01:21:38 don't mock me Bike 01:21:50 imo written language is too complicated *series of hand gestures 01:21:51 iirc the nynorsk one is depressing 01:22:08 small wikipedias are the most depressing thing in the world 01:22:11 «As a result of the competing influences of English and Scots, varieties of Ulster Scots can be described as 'more English' or 'more Scots'» 01:22:14 it's trying really hard but there's just not enough care on the planet for a less-popular dialect of norwegian 01:22:35 elliott: last i checked, the nynorsk wikipedia even has some articles with subpages in the even more radical høgnorsk form 01:22:43 hognorsk 01:22:54 means "high norwegian" of course :P 01:23:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Høgnorsk seems like it's less radical? 01:23:19 what about like... what do saami people speak 01:23:22 i have no idea 01:23:35 -!- yiyus has joined. 01:23:48 elliott: hm i meant radical in the sense of even further from what most people use 01:23:53 ah 01:24:02 but i guess that is also extremely conservative 01:24:38 `slist 01:24:41 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 01:25:12 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:25:18 Bike, have you reached the part where it was mostly made up to get a unionist alternative to irish's protected language status (n.b. my sources in this matter are not exactly dispassionate) 01:25:51 also isn't bokmal and the other thing, like, written <-- of course. the current fashion for _speech_ is to use nearly unnormalized dialect. 01:25:55 Phantom__Hoover: it's in the intro. 01:26:11 it's recognized by the UK under the EU's language thing though, huh 01:26:20 oerjan: when i come to trondheim you have to explain norway to me. 01:26:23 i vote finnish for cutest language 01:26:38 `what about basque' 01:26:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: what: not found 01:26:44 Bike: there are three official saami languages in norway, although northern saami is far larger than the others. 01:26:51 gosh that's a lot 01:27:07 oh there's a word for spelling scots like that, kinda. eye dialect 01:27:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:This_is_the_cover_of_a_book_containing_the_Gospel_of_Luke_in_both_Ulster_Scots_and_the_1611_AV.png good filename 01:27:26 elliott: what do you mean, you think _i_ understand norway? 01:27:36 oerjan: well I would hope so. 01:27:50 my favorite wikipedia filename is 01:27:50 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:27:51 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:27:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thing.png 01:28:00 Bike: great filename 01:28:01 oh you said that 01:28:08 its exactly a thing 01:28:17 that is definitely a thing. 01:28:33 -!- kmc has joined. 01:29:28 Thành Cát Tư Hãn 01:29:30 -!- jix has joined. 01:30:36 that tu han 01:31:45 jix: you have your own company now? 01:32:08 maybe it's "jix code" 01:32:55 "Contemporary Mongolians clearly prefer Chinggis over Genghis, not only because it reflects Mongolian pronounciation more closely, but also because it matches the Cyrillic version, Чингис хаан" 01:32:55 jix: your "index!" needs expansion hth 01:33:11 "The article is inconsitent in Temüjin vs Temujin. Which is correct?" *flips table* 01:33:55 wow there's a frickin mongolian imperial defender in this talk page 01:34:21 My name is Serge and i'm citizen of Ukraine (Ukrainian Rus), one of the states in the modern global cossack society that is society of cossacks, free people of the Earth. 01:34:32 I read that as ukrainian bus 01:35:08 i think this person is saying kazakhs are cossacks 01:36:18 -!- comex` has changed nick to comex. 01:38:06 «For example, Peter Holquist, a specialist of the conflict in the Don region, concludes that decossackization did not constitute an "open-ended program of genocide" but rather was a "ruthless" and "radical attempt to eliminate undesirable social groups," which showed Soviet regime's "dedication to social engineering."» somebody help me understand this 01:39:47 so it was "not genocide" but "a ruthless attempt to eliminate undesirable social groups" 01:40:04 yeah i just 01:40:09 you can't just say the same thing twice man 01:40:17 "it's not murder, it's just intentionally killing someone" 01:42:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:45:39 as long as we have clarified that. 02:02:21 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:26 $u 𝕍 02:10:27 U+D835 (No name found) 02:10:28 U+DD4D (No name found) 02:10:30 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:11:26 Hmmm. Surrogates. 02:12:09 $u 𝕍 02:12:09 U+D835 (No name found) 02:12:10 U+DD4D (No name found) 02:12:21 :| Something's getting misinterpreted somewhere. 02:13:15 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:14:31 Sgeo_: hey, join the Desert Warriors Clan! 02:19:32 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:20:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:23:14 I don't even know what a condition code is 02:24:16 "A pretodianship is a position that can be held by a party member". Are all Agoran offices pretodianships? If not, can pretodianships also be held by nonmembers? 02:24:33 It's kind of clear what was intended, but not clear that your wording expresses it unambiguously 02:26:32 I think that's fair. 02:31:18 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:32:39 Sgeo_: think that should be fixed, along with the editing error in Article 2, before the party is created? 02:34:53 * Sgeo_ hasn't looked at the rest that closely 02:37:06 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:43:42 -!- sacje has joined. 02:57:24 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:57:43 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 03:22:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:28:31 -!- Bike has joined. 03:37:16 `slist 03:37:17 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:46:19 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 03:56:04 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 03:57:42 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:06:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:35:17 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:51:24 -!- ALTRION has joined. 04:51:49 HY 04:51:57 `WELCOME ALTRION 04:51:59 ALTRION: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 04:52:28 OK 04:52:38 I'M FROM INDONESIA 04:52:46 THAT'S COOL 04:53:15 NO 04:53:23 IN INDONESIA IS HOT 04:53:29 OH 04:53:34 IT'S HOT HERE TOO BUT PROBABLY NOT AS HOT 04:53:55 NOT VERY HOT 04:55:33 I'M SORRY MY ENGLISH IS NOT GOOD BUT NOT BAD 04:55:55 start by turning caps lock off :) 04:55:58 You're quite understandable. Maybe you should use lowercase letters, though. 04:56:27 ok 04:56:39 You should use both uppercase and lowercase letters. 04:57:10 liKe tHiS RiGHt? 04:58:10 my english is simultaneously good and bad 04:58:14 (Some computers don't have lowercase, but this makes it difficult to use the MODE command, and won't access most webpages, gopher, and other internet protocols; however, most modern computers do have lowercase.) 04:58:34 oooowww 04:58:55 I use lowercase latters, okay 04:59:16 well, anyway, what's up 05:00:29 This is a forum? 05:00:43 a chatroom, yeah 05:01:28 this name is esoteric, what is esoteric??? 05:01:55 check the link in the welcome message? 05:02:48 add my facebook okay : aldri_017@yahoo.co.id 05:03:10 how did you find this place? 05:03:36 shachaf: hth 05:03:44 copumpkin: Huh? 05:03:48 in channels list 05:03:56 shachaf: hth, hth 05:04:07 copumpkin: I don't get it. 05:04:22 I said hth, you said what, so I said hth, hth 05:04:30 Fine. 05:04:39 hth 05:05:36 -!- shachaf has left. 05:05:52 ALTRION: I don't use the Facebook, OK? 05:06:05 okay 05:07:04 which your country? 05:07:13 i'm from indonesia 05:07:18 and you ? 05:08:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:09:05 I am in Canada. 05:09:11 oooo 05:09:19 Some of people in here are from other countries. 05:14:13 -!- ALTRION has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:17:11 esoteric is an adjective, hth 05:24:39 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:24:55 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:34:56 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:39:02 * copumpkin hugs shachaf 05:40:08 I still don't get it, but whatever. 05:40:13 get what? 05:40:37 there was nothing to get! I was referencing your hth stint for no reason whatsoever and being obnoxious about it 05:40:40 that was all there was to it 05:40:51 What does hth even have to do with me? 05:41:01 you were using it all over the place for a while 05:41:36 I don't know. 05:41:40 * shachaf repeats earlier sentiment. 05:44:24 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 05:49:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:51:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:15:53 -!- Bike_ has joined. 06:16:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:25:50 I think the Turing sequent calculus I made up can be used for nondeterministic Turing machines too. 06:28:35 However it is also possible for there to be no rule (not even halting), in the one I made. 06:29:11 You win if it halts, lose if there is no rule, and draw if it doesn't halt. If it is nondeterministic, then the win/lose/draw outcome will not be predetermined. 06:30:38 -!- sprocklem has joined. 06:40:31 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:52:53 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 06:55:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:09:20 Whether any mathematicians find this useful, I don't know. 07:11:03 -!- Koen_ has joined. 07:12:10 -!- Koen__ has joined. 07:12:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:15:46 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 07:35:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:38:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:57:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:04:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go). 08:11:49 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:14:31 no I don't have my own company 08:14:51 jixco.de => jix' code 08:15:07 (and I happen to be in germany so .de is the right tld anyway) 08:18:09 That is good, then. 08:28:28 "Jix, Inc." would have a nice ring to it. 08:33:38 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 08:46:28 today i ate at http://www.sunflowersf.com/ which has the best website 08:48:51 The other day I ate at http://www.kabuki.fi/kabuki.html whose website is also pretty good; last news is from 2009, and there's a prominent red-border notice about it being closed "Sunday, August 5th", except this year's August 5th is a Monday, suggesting that it's probably about last year. 08:49:03 It's a bit more "designy", however. 08:49:54 kmc: That's a good website. 08:50:19 It could be improved by including HTML menus. 08:51:11 * kmc -> afk 08:57:07 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:07:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:21:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 09:26:14 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:33:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:54:30 -!- neena has joined. 10:56:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:53:01 `relcome neena 11:53:08 ​neena: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:08:30 you know what's funny 12:08:34 no 12:08:53 the fact that the word 'sigmoid' means s-shaped despite the fact that neither form of the letter sigma is s-shaped 12:09:00 Hello. I am only lurking 12:11:09 I guess they consider 's' a form of sigma 12:12:09 but that's boring... I like the idea that someone wanted a proper fancy name for s-shaped and just had no clue what a sigma actually looks like 12:12:54 Final sigma: ς 12:13:00 (in Greek) 12:13:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sigma_uc_lc.svg 12:15:02 looks like it says Eos 12:16:23 I once had a LaTeX document that used the symbol $\sigma_\varsigma$ for a thing. Then I talked about it in an email, and had to write σ_ς. 12:16:38 It was changed to something like a single uppercase latin letter, later on. 12:17:07 fizzie: important: do you acknowledge the immense superiority of \varepsilon over \epsilon 12:19:50 elliott: I do. 12:20:14 gooood 12:20:44 I have somewhat similar feelings when it comes to \varphi over \phi, but that might be just personal preference, since the loopier \varphi is how I was taught to write it. 12:21:31 fuck varphi 12:22:09 It's the proper Greek letter, instead of some silly "math symbol" phi. 12:23:07 what's the difference between the var-prefixed and normal name? 12:23:52 The var-prefixed is presumably a "variant form" of some sort. 12:24:04 Like the "final sigma" for \varsigma, and the loopy phi for \varphi. 12:24:41 oh, I thought it stood for "variable" 12:24:48 varsigma varies depending on context or something? 12:24:53 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:24:54 like you were meant to use \varepsilon for variables but \epsilon for... constants?? functions?? 12:25:26 I have just *assumed* the "variant" meaning of "var"; I'unno. 12:25:57 Also \varepsilon is the more rounded "flipped 3"-style epsilon, as opposed to \epsilon's "c and - overtyped" solution. 12:26:23 isn't \epsilon used for empty strings sometimes? 12:27:14 Yes, though I've seen \varepsilon as the empty string too. 12:27:24 (It might've not been a TeX-derived document at all.) 12:29:27 http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007doc/#epsilon 12:29:30 Best ideas: Use final sigma and stigma for two different meanings -- ς and ϛ are *so different*. 12:30:45 (That's U+03C2 GREEK SMALL LETTER FINAL SIGMA and U+03DB GREEK SMALL LETTER STIGMA, I hope.) 12:30:48 Deewiant, yikes. that has them the other way around 12:31:03 same for phi and varphi 12:31:22 As it says 12:31:39 that's a disaster 12:31:55 on a related note: i've never seen \vartheta (the swirly latex one) used anywhere 12:32:09 angles are usually just \theta, and honestly, what else do you call theta 12:32:17 I guess it's because the "default" for "them" is the regular Greek letter use, and the "variant" is the "mathy" one. 12:32:29 oh it's "variant"? 12:32:47 That's what I've always assumed, as I said, like, right after you joined. 12:33:07 pshh reading 12:33:15 Though "variant" is what Deewiant's link says, too, so I guess they've assumed so too. 12:33:38 And I remember seeing \vartheta somewhere, but I have no recollection what it was for. 12:36:40 Oh, right, of course -- the Jacobi theta function: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theta_function 12:37:07 i've seen that variant elsewhere 12:37:23 possibly handwritten, although god knows who'd write it that way 12:43:50 More than one people seem to be using ϑ for mean. 12:44:10 Or I guess as their go-to "I need a Greek letter and don't have an obvious choice" letter. 12:44:49 I write it kinda like that 12:45:01 except with a little extra bar on the left 12:45:14 The most secure data cryption program in the World http://kryptochef.net/indexh2e.htm 12:45:48 I think I remember KRYPTO. 12:48:50 The proof of 256 being "full bits" is impressive. 12:50:57 http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/the_doghouse_kr.html -- oh, from here. 12:57:50 -!- yiyus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:58:00 (The author takes part in the confersation few (hundred) screens down.) 13:02:25 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:03:30 (I like the bit where he proves almost all existing hashing algorithms are broken, because they generate nonzero outputs for the empty input. His own, LBV5DG, of course isn't broken that way -- "it doesn't work with nothing, how should it.") 13:03:40 haha 13:04:04 http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/the_doghouse_kr.html#c185757 is I think a direct link to that comment. 13:04:22 (These are some random commenter's English translations of his German postings from elsewhere.) 13:05:18 wat http://kryptochef.net/KRYPTOCHEF%20Newsletter%20eng.htm 13:09:11 Yes, I believe he has been badly wronged by the German government, or some such thing. 13:10:45 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 13:11:11 "These data programs immediately recognize the password is wrong when it is wrong. How can the program before the actual data decryption. That says it all out on such programs." 13:11:49 fungot: How can the program before the actual data decryption? 13:11:49 olsner: the fnord concept stems from the use that the catholic church and most media. so the teacher says, " one made up for that 13:12:25 fungot: You make about as much sense as KRYPTOCHEF. 13:12:25 fizzie: you must be a good idea, counting on that i have that was supoused to work, 13:13:08 is it still horribly difficult to add fungot styles? 13:13:09 olsner: away a sec. the siemens mobile toolkit thing has the api classes as a fnord is a diaresis? 13:13:39 I don't think it has been horribly difficult? 13:13:45 It's as difficult as it has been, however. 13:14:22 That means "involves, like, a dozen commands", assuming a suitably formatted dataset. 13:15:12 -!- boily has joined. 13:32:11 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:33:05 :-D http://www.edepot.com/baseencryption.html 13:34:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:36:22 ion: «As secure as OTP». yeah, right. 13:37:14 ion: Are you doing some sort of a crypto-kook tour or what? 13:37:42 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:39:10 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:00:13 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 14:33:53 why are there still new ed versions? 14:40:30 improved error messages 14:45:37 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:49:58 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 14:50:05 -!- ohnowhy has quit (Client Quit). 14:50:23 -!- ohnowhy has joined. 2013-07-04: 00:03:57 so yeah. who has moved lately? <-- i have moved about 4 km southeast hth 00:04:09 are you still in trondheim 00:07:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:08:11 -!- Bike has joined. 00:09:41 Poll: How long ago is "ancient" 00:09:54 yesterday 00:10:05 before the 1990s 00:11:07 July 6, 1189 00:12:23 long enough ago that I don't remember it 00:14:26 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:15:34 -!- Bike has joined. 00:15:39 elliott: i believe i'm still within city limits, yes 00:15:58 that poll sucked. 00:16:27 oerjan: can I have directions for when I visit 00:20:55 elliott: http://goo.gl/maps/SMmWk hth 00:21:39 is that a map of a crop? 00:21:52 XD 00:27:12 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:29:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:32:56 Koen__: it's a cropped map of a crop hth 00:33:30 you live next to the beach though 00:33:33 that sounds cool 00:34:12 i'm afraid much of that beach is also changing into apartments hth 00:34:45 well I guess it's a good news for the people who are gonna move into those appartments 00:35:18 thoug according to that map, if you have just moved 4km southeast... you used to live in the sea? 00:35:55 well _approximately_ southeast. 00:35:59 I always knew oerjan was a mermaid 00:36:11 there was just something fishy about him this whole time. 00:38:00 http://goo.gl/maps/2Whbx 00:38:36 don't I get at least a swat for that pun? 00:39:08 @slap elliott 00:39:08 * lambdabot loves elliott , so no slapping 00:39:10 ah, oerjan lives on the roof. 00:39:12 darn 00:39:51 *lived 00:39:57 @slap elliott 00:39:57 * lambdabot throws some pointy lambdas at elliott 00:40:32 shiba are just so cute. http://i.imgur.com/VKT21lx.png 00:41:22 shachaf: how am I not nice? 00:41:57 :( 00:42:01 I didn't say you were not nice. 00:42:09 I'm not sure. 00:42:32 hrrmpf 00:42:36 aren't any coordinates approximate? like how many sigfigs are necessary to no longer be approximate <-- the exact point has to be inside your body hth 00:44:01 I don't want any points inside of my body 00:44:58 it's ok copumpkin, I still like you. 00:45:04 yay 00:45:14 * copumpkin hugs elliott and gives shachaf a dirty look while doing so 00:45:29 I wonder if GPS is accurate enough for that. 00:45:33 just because you like copumpkin doesn't mean you have to like CT, btw 00:45:47 which CT are we talking about here? 00:46:11 copumpkin: See? 00:46:20 Dirty looks. 00:46:26 That's the kind of think I'm talking about. 00:46:29 * copumpkin gives shachaf a dirtier look 00:46:31 I think 'Connecticut' would be less offensive than 'category theory' in this context 00:46:39 in fact 00:46:44 * copumpkin gives shachaf THE DIRTIEST LOOK 00:46:49 ew 00:46:50 offending several million people vs. possibly hundreds 00:46:52 that's p. dirty 00:46:52 SO DIRTY YOU'LL NEED A SHOWER 00:48:14 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 00:48:25 i just showered 00:48:33 thanks a lot 00:48:34 how is it any different from a copumpkin hug then? <--- burn & zing & snap 00:48:43 :( 00:49:20 * Fiora hugs elliott just to hug elliott 00:49:42 wow 00:49:49 this channel is discriminating against me 00:50:16 the conspiracy 00:50:27 * Fiora hugs shachaf too, okay? :< 00:50:52 wow a forced hug 00:50:56 does that even mean anything 00:51:06 * Gracenotes force hugs shachaf 00:51:07 i can feel the reluctance :'( 00:51:14 help 00:51:31 anyone read Gunnerkrigg? 00:51:38 that Hetty huh 00:51:52 I'm sorry ._. I just won't do anything next time... 00:52:04 Fiora: You were fine! It was a joke. 00:52:17 oh. 00:52:42 @hug Fiora 00:52:42 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 00:52:53 anyone read `olist? 00:52:56 that vaarsuvius huh 00:53:24 lol 00:53:59 not as such 00:54:38 -!- Bike has joined. 00:55:11 history's worst mass-murderer 00:56:26 hetty sure is a character. 00:56:32 oh for sure, Bike 00:56:42 How do you write ^-1 in Unicode? 00:57:05 you rely on word processors 00:57:13 that know about Unicode 00:57:49 ⁻¹ not good enough for you huh 00:57:52 Bike: fix your connection 00:58:05 can't 00:58:43 ummm try harder 00:59:02 -!- kallisti has joined. 00:59:03 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 00:59:03 -!- kallisti has joined. 01:01:53 kmc: so have you convinced them to make the rust syntax less ugly yet..... 01:03:01 rust syntax isn't so bad 01:03:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:03:35 yes it is 01:04:39 you have bested me 01:07:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:11:46 no i haven't 01:11:52 someone was arguing a lot about semicolons today in #rust 01:18:17 was it bad 01:19:12 kmc: what about lexical syntax of comments 01:20:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 01:21:48 "This may seem like a sneaky attempt to trick developers, but this behavior is actually specified in HTML5[2]. The navigator.product property must be Gecko and navigator.appName should be either Netscape or something more specific. Strange recommendations, but Internet Explorer 11 follows them." 01:22:41 Oh that's wrong 01:22:43 "Must return either the string "Netscape" or the full name of the browser, e.g. "Mellblom Browsernator". 01:22:43 " 01:25:39 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14573881/why-the-javascript-navigator-appname-returns-netscape-for-safari-firefox-and-ch 01:26:29 so has anyone created a Mellblom Browsernator yet 01:35:17 -!- Bike has joined. 01:36:21 so does anyone know how to make kernel modules stop being terrible. or at least how i can get their versions to learn that my version is actually a DLL from 1997. 01:37:44 no im pretty sure thats just that dang ol eternal mystery again 01:38:03 what's the mystery 01:38:23 what 01:38:53 disable all kernel modules 01:39:02 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:39:26 Oh, what I pasted wasn't wrong, I just misread 01:39:46 kill all humans 01:40:25 "How do I turn this human back on again?" 01:40:32 modprobe soul 01:40:34 "You can't, Android Friend. You killed him." 01:40:36 "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" 01:40:48 later Android Friend acquires a taste for blood etc. 01:40:54 many Academy Awards are won 01:53:00 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:53:22 what's this about dlls 01:53:41 shachaf: oh, one interesting thing is that /*! foo bar */ is sugar for #[doc("foo bar")] or so 01:54:21 the latter is an example of an attribute 01:55:02 attributes seem cool to me, I guess they are really no different from __attribute__((foo)) or {-# FOO #-} but the syntax is less hackish, being designed in from the beginning 01:55:11 and they have a standard sort of key-value syntax 01:58:34 well, {-# #-} is "designed in" 01:58:57 well, maybe not entirely so, since it's clearly made to be compatible with comments 01:58:58 anyway, where's this gathering thing 01:59:04 and when 01:59:07 and any details at all 01:59:31 san francisco, tomorrow, evening-ish? 01:59:45 where in san francisco 01:59:49 when evening-ish 02:00:15 i might go to sf earlier in the day 02:00:22 i don't know 02:00:24 via Caltrain? 02:00:25 shachaf: it's not in haskell 98!!! 02:00:33 kmc: it's in 2010, at least 02:00:38 oh yeah 02:00:44 oh, 98 too 02:00:44 http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/pragmas.html 02:00:47 shachaf: I expect I will be joining you, probably 02:00:49 cool 02:00:52 that would work best 02:01:08 i wish they'd introduce a one-line --# FOO syntax 02:01:26 Gracenotes: sgtm 02:01:39 > let (--#) = (+) in 2 --# 4 02:01:40 6 02:01:48 we will probably meet somewhere in the Mission or SoMa 02:01:52 "i know \"i know\"" 02:01:53 I live at 26th and Bryant 02:02:05 too many acronyms 02:02:05 but we might be watching fireworks from mozilla office at 2 Harrison 02:02:11 but likely not? 02:02:15 anyway shachaf has my phone number 02:02:27 and kmc has mine 02:02:29 no, mozilla will be overful of people already? 02:02:30 i'm still coming 02:02:43 they are not free as in free-fireworks-viewing? 02:02:44 though I do not have kmc's phone number 02:02:45 Gracenotes: they're doing a lottery to see who can go 02:02:54 and have not sent out results yet 02:03:01 Lottery? 02:03:10 Is it a small office that lots of people want to go to or something? 02:03:20 How about first-come-first-serve, get there 2 hours early. that will be fun. 02:03:57 mozilla fireworx, the new web browser written in rust 02:04:16 shachaf: it's a pretty large office but they say it's unsafe to have more than 100 people on the roof deck 02:04:24 ah 02:05:33 I can't help shake the feeling that this some elaborate hazing ritual on kmc 02:05:50 heh 02:06:00 "the ol' roof deck fireworks lottery" 02:09:56 I hope Mozilla employees and friends of Mozilla employees don't do anything dumb like have illicit substances 02:10:02 they would not be a fun party, in that case 02:10:21 i don't understand 02:10:37 well, oh, or SF police just might not care, too. 02:10:39 are you seriously going to be upset if people are smoking weed around you 02:10:42 yes 02:10:54 SF police could not possibly give less of a shit about people smoking weed 02:10:59 kmc: not that upset relatively speaking 02:11:17 being upset about not liking the smell of smoke or something is reasonable 02:11:32 it is a somewhat difficult smell to avoid in sf :'( 02:11:37 and it is polite of people to smoke outdoors / otherwise away from people who mind 02:11:48 I mean, if you want good examples of being not observing proper drug-smoking etiquette, just go to a music festival 02:11:50 but if you're very much against weed-smoking in general then, uh, you probably won't have a good time hanging out with me and my friends 02:12:30 kmc: i was in Weed, CA once 02:12:38 do you smoke weed 24/7 :o 02:12:41 i'm against smoking weeds because you're not meant to just smoke random weeds from your garden......... try some drugs instead 02:13:19 i think smoking weeds, is cruel, to the weeds 02:13:30 elliott: are drugs like drugz? 02:13:38 no, completely different 02:14:11 we need an PSA t-shirt saying "I'm high on Haskell" 02:14:23 im hi on hi 02:14:24 Very effective on youngsters 02:14:24 - mnoqy 02:14:31 ok so my july 4th looks like this 02:14:32 Gracenotes: no, but on a holiday that is largely about looking at pretty explosions, it is safe to assume some weed will be smoked 02:14:37 trondheim -> san francisco -> ??? 02:14:42 or maybe sf comes before trondheim 02:14:50 does anyone else want me to visit 02:15:03 are we having our antarctica trip 02:15:14 why trondheim 02:15:25 kmc: oerjan 02:15:29 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:15:53 what's oerjan's approximate body weigh 02:16:45 Bike: how close would you say you are to san francisco 02:17:10 hm 02:17:19 let me see if i can "pull a Fiora" for you 02:17:55 what's a fiora and how do you pull it 02:19:08 apparently i don't know 02:19:24 google says a drive would take ten hours, 38 minutes 02:19:32 or ten hours, 41 minutes in present traffic, thanks 02:19:35 sounds right 02:19:37 ok but what if I have wings. 02:19:39 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:19:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:19:45 it would be about 16 hours from where i lived in washington 02:19:57 Bike, how far in miles 02:19:58 how fast do you fly exactly 02:20:02 or maybe 24 hours if you stop to sleep et c 02:20:02 are you offering to like carry me 02:20:10 yes 02:20:11 Phantom_Hoover: 670 02:20:14 hmm 02:20:20 how far are you from new york 02:20:21 thats how much i love you Bike 02:20:27 um 02:20:29 pretty far imo 02:20:30 Phantom_Hoover: way farther 02:20:38 are you trying to like triangulate me 02:20:43 no! 02:20:49 i'd need 3 points for a triangulation 02:20:55 ok well it's 44 hours. 02:21:00 or, in current traffic, 44 hours. 02:21:09 that's a lotta hours 02:21:17 i dont think disatnces that long even exist 02:21:29 british people, am i right 02:21:29 i'm planning to just use two and discard the one that's in the sea 02:21:41 you could just like, ask 02:21:47 `? Bike 02:21:52 Bike is from Luxembourg. 02:21:58 yay, HackEgo is fixed 02:22:00 says where i'm from not where i am! 02:22:03 oh hey HackEgo is fixed. 02:22:05 thanks Gregor 02:22:08 guess san francisco got my note. 02:22:14 i drove from portland to california once :'( 02:22:25 `addquote Hmm, is an Electronic Signature in a PDF file a thing? How do they work? [1] Yes. [2] It doesn't. 02:22:28 i did that too, imo it sucked. 02:22:29 1066) Hmm, is an Electronic Signature in a PDF file a thing? How do they work? [1] Yes. [2] It doesn't. 02:22:33 Phantom_Hoover gets to readd his quote himself 02:22:42 but who gets to writee it 02:23:01 "Take the Interstate 84 E exit toward Ogden/Salt Lake, 589 mi" these directions are great 02:23:13 kmc: ok the plan is for Gracenotes and me to take the train to sf tomorrow and then meet y'all somewhere in soma/mission 02:23:21 Keep left at the fork, follow signs for I-80 E/Cheyenne and merge onto I-80 E 02:23:22 for 1008 miles 02:23:39 1008 miles :'( 02:23:45 bad mile amount 02:23:49 wow it's recommending toll roads 02:23:50 f u google 02:23:52 isn't that like 02:23:58 the earth's radius 02:23:59 Bike: there's an option for no tolls 02:24:00 or most of it 02:24:02 how many walses is 1008 miles 02:24:23 the radius of the earth is apparently 3,959 miles 02:24:24 @google 1008 miles in walses 02:24:27 http://www.distancebetweencities.net/wales_me_and_west-van-lear_ky/ 02:24:27 Title: Distance between Wales, ME and West Van Lear, KY 1008 Miles / 1622 Km 02:24:59 > 2*pi*3959 02:25:00 24875.130631123982 02:25:22 elliott: imo you should come visit 02:25:22 how wide is wales 02:25:38 elliott: use the copumpkin method of travel 02:25:45 i already said i'm visiting tomorrow 02:25:46 lol 02:25:47 is... there a city called wales 02:25:59 Phantom_Hoover: everything in the US is named after something in the isles, yes 02:26:11 anyway this map makes it look like wales is about the size of massachusetts 02:26:12 `the isles' 02:26:14 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: the: not found 02:26:21 so, 1008 miles is like..................... i'm gonna say a hundred waleses at least. 02:27:07 is wales 10 miles 02:27:14 hm, misread as walrus 02:27:14 yeah i think so 02:27:29 there are 8 settlements named wales in the us 02:28:26 oh " It is about 274 km (170 mi) north–south and 97 km (60 mi) east–west" 02:28:28 imagine leaving wales and being like 02:28:30 jeez i miss that place 02:28:40 let's name this place that is definitely far better than wales, after wales 02:28:40 > 1008/97 02:28:41 10.391752577319588 02:28:45 wait that was dumb 02:28:48 > 1008/60 02:28:49 16.8 02:28:50 there. 02:28:55 exacty 16.8 waleses 02:29:03 that's a lot of wales 02:29:51 Space wales. Falling toward the planet over which they happened to come into existence. 02:30:20 elliott, do you hate wales more than scotland 02:30:31 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 02:30:37 Phantom_Hoover: can there not be two incomparably great evils in the world 02:30:45 why would you hate scotland 02:30:47 shachaf: sgtm 02:30:52 "We could not calculate directions between Moscow, Russia and Anadyr, Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, Russia." google maps disappoints me 02:31:18 "We could not calculate directions between Moscow, Russia and Beijing, China." oh come on! there's a train 02:31:18 shachaf, because you're from england 02:31:25 and thus can only take self-hatred so far 02:31:48 Bike: can you ask it whether there's a ferry from newcastle to uh what was it, bergen 02:31:49 Bike, sadly they have fixed the bug where ferries are considered zero distance for foot directions 02:31:49 kmc: so you should call me or something when you know concrete plans, probably 02:31:52 Google Maps should make a Soviet Russia joke when it can’t figure out a route in Russia. 02:32:06 anyway /me vanishes for a bit 02:32:27 which meant that if you asked for directions between any two sufficiently distant points in the british mainland it would take you across the irish sea at least twice 02:32:27 or just send a global notice on all of freenode 02:32:37 Phantom_Hoover: awesome 02:32:43 we barely knew ya, shachaf 02:32:56 Phantom_Hoover: i loved that 02:33:14 shachaf: sounds good 02:33:14 i once asked for directions from john o'groats to land's end 02:33:20 how about you call/text me when you arrive in sf 02:33:26 and i can reply with my coördinates 02:33:41 wow, it actually can give you directions from moscow to birobidzhan 02:33:51 Ooh. 2 + 3 = 1 * 5 and 2 * 3 = 1 + 5. 02:33:59 the route went through all 4 UK countries, the republic, the isle of man, and france 02:34:00 Pretty sure I just discovered the greatest mathematical theorem ever. 02:34:04 the instructions consist of "take this highway for 99 hours" but still 02:34:41 Bike: come on how do I get to norway 02:34:57 I know you're thinking well why would you want to but some of our less fortunate friends live there 02:35:26 ok ok i'm done wrestling with russia let me see 02:35:46 tswett: O, you found out things like that. I don't think it is "the greatest mathematical theorem ever"; it is just something you notice. Others notice other things too, not only in mathematics. A while ago I noticed that the initial letters of the first four astrological signs are the same as the initial letters of DNA. 02:35:50 first let me see if it can do newcastle to Birobidzhan 02:35:52 oh my god, it can. 02:35:53 tswett: just find distinct factors of numbers with identical sums hth 02:36:12 7125 miles, 132 hours of driving 02:36:25 ..or the other way around 02:36:36 ok so: you mean bergen norway right 02:36:45 the answer is, it has you drive. 02:37:27 `hpmordate 02:37:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hpmordate: not found 02:37:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:37:42 through the chunnel, and then a ferry (!!!!!) from larvik to hirtshals. 02:38:17 Bike: i mean trondheim norway 02:38:22 ok 02:38:24 bergen is just where the ferry used to go 02:38:37 yeah basically the same 02:38:41 except you go norther 02:38:48 ok but i don't have a car. 02:38:56 also this takes 29 hours 02:39:03 so, probably should leave like yesterday? 02:39:45 that's ok, Fiora has the time travel thing sorted out. 02:39:58 but seriously, this thing can give you driving directions from hexham to Birobidzhan, that is cool as hell imo. 02:40:19 it's impressive that there is even a way to get to not-hexham from hexham 02:40:36 cant get there from here, as they say 02:41:16 shit yes it does hexham to thailand 02:41:31 "This route has tolls. This route includes a car transport." 02:41:47 also you have to drive through iran. 02:41:51 and burma. 02:41:53 good route 02:42:16 pic pls 02:42:37 "Pass by Zubair Traders and Electronics (on the left in 0.3 mi)" this is the best shit 02:42:44 I had idea of some programming language for Magic: the Gathering cards. One feature is that the printout is different than the input; for example, replacing ~ with the card's name, displaying mana symbols, making reminder text italic, and changing around some of the special programming symbols into printout format (including hiding things if necessary). 02:43:08 elliott: http://goo.gl/maps/lKISo 02:43:25 ummmm that's not a picture 02:43:27 Elliott's Journey 02:43:55 i really like how it talks about like individual roundabouts 02:44:03 yes it's great 02:44:13 you will pass so-and-so petrol station, in waziristan 02:44:15 For example, "Draw =3 cards." means the same as "Draw 3 cards." but prints as "Draw three cards." 02:44:31 "Driving directions to Cape Town, South Africa. This route crosses through multiple countries." 02:44:39 i christen this route "imperialism" 02:44:41 57. Continue onto E-75 02:44:42 Pass by ГРАДСКО САОБРАЋАЈНО ПРЕДУЗЕЋЕ "БЕОГРАД" - САОБРАЋАЈНИ ПОГОН КОСМАЈ (on the right in 3.8 mi) 02:45:04 kazakhstan? 02:45:09 "82. Slight right" jesus 02:45:18 hm yes has you driving through dr congo 02:45:41 so you realise i have to travel this route sometime in my life now right 02:45:53 do you need to go to bangkok 02:46:00 Plurals of subtypes can be indicated by "=s" such as "Destroy all Wall=s." 02:46:11 What other ideas do you have about things like this? 02:46:26 Comments are in parentheses. 02:46:59 Other punctuation has other purposes. 02:47:08 It would take you 100 days to walk without stopping 02:47:09 jesus you can plot to /jakarta/ 02:47:43 Pass by CENTRAL BANK OF INDIA 02:47:47 pretty much just trying to get the longest routes possible atm 02:47:57 this one's 249 hours, 10,289 mi 02:48:19 help i froze my browser 02:48:23 so if you walked for 6.6 hours a day, it would take you a full year 02:48:32 oh there's a ferry from singapore to indonesia. why did i not think of that. 02:49:04 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 02:49:33 zzo38: so a markup language? 02:49:51 well, plus programming parts... 02:49:55 if wanted 02:50:11 Bike: We could not calculate directions between Hexham, Northumberland, UK and Antarctica. 02:50:45 elliott: it can do hexham to dili though. 02:51:16 340 hour drive 02:51:36 where is dili. 02:51:52 tswett: 2 + 2 = 2 * 2 hth 02:51:55 We could not calculate directions between Hexham, Northumberland, UK and Tokyo, Japan. 02:51:58 this thing is useless 02:52:21 = 2 ^ 2 02:52:50 Bike: hexham to serbia = success 02:52:55 only 25 hours though. 02:52:59 wait 02:53:00 fuck 02:53:04 serbia isn't where i was thinking of 02:53:10 oh my god I've forgotten what it's called 02:53:18 jesus 02:53:23 help me Bike 02:53:33 Gracenotes: Yes, kind of like that; I meant that it has markup used to reformat for printing, although the computer can also execute it as a program. 02:54:24 how did hexham get significant here? 02:54:35 that is the question nobody can answer, Gracenotes 02:54:40 zzo38: is this to do simulation-y stuff? 02:54:53 Gracenotes: What is "simulation-y stuff"? 02:54:57 presumably the standard libraries ofsuch a language might encode the rules of Magic 02:54:58 Bike: ok seriously, what's the place that's like russia but worse called. 02:55:11 that is literally the best description I have. 02:55:17 zzo38: like, statistical analysis of various decks 02:56:23 Gracenotes: Yes, that is what I mean; the standard libraries include rules of Magic. But I don't really mean statistical analysis (you can still do that, but you don't need to parse the card text as a program to do so); I mean to implement the game in computer. 03:00:33 You would have further syntax for specifying that something is a card name, and so on. 03:03:58 There could be a syntax <|> where the text before | is a program and after | is a comment; only the comment will print (and the <|> won't print). We could also have [] to embed Haskell codes, or whatever it is. 03:04:38 Use {} to delimit mana symbols and other symbols. 03:04:39 Bike: ok seriously, what's the place that's like russia but worse called. <-- belarus? 03:04:58 it's like, in russia. you know. thing 03:06:15 oh. siberia. 03:06:28 http://i.imgur.com/o0EQIlV.png help. they're on to me 03:06:33 oerjan: yes, that. not serbia 03:06:42 GOT YOU 03:07:25 that's probably a picture of Bryggen (Bergen world heritage site) 03:09:41 only remaining hanseatic league office, or something like that 03:10:59 The other thing to do is that ~ and ~~ both mean a reference to itself (even if the text containing the tilde is being applied to a different object, although if it is copied, the text will refer to the copy), but prints as the name of the card. If the name of the card contains a comma, then ~~ will omit the comma and everything that comes after it. 03:12:10 (So there are many syntaxes to mean the same thing; what other programming languages also do the same thing and in a similar way?) 03:17:21 siberia is like 03:17:22 in russia 03:18:13 elliott: btw that Birobidzhan place? EAST OF SIBERIA BRO 03:19:18 geography is too hard when I'm this tired, Bike. 03:21:38 where'd you think a place called Birobidzhan was gonna be 03:21:40 texas? 03:22:29 france 03:36:21 paris, texas, clearly 03:45:04 kmc: ok 03:46:14 elliott: did you ever finish inventing n-dimensional fenceposts 03:47:12 kmc: http://contemplatecode.blogspot.com/2013/07/haskell-weekly-news-issue-272.html 04:06:54 hm i just did https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Esoteric_programming_language&curid=53398&diff=562623568&oldid=562606940 and i've come to think about whether there are any other, disjoint communities of note. didn't there use to be quite a bit of stuff in japanese, which might mean there's a whole disjoint community as well... 04:09:26 we need jsvine to finish that article so we can have more citations on wikipedia 04:12:07 i try to google translate https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/難解プログラミング言語 and google tells me the address is invalid :( 04:12:34 you think they'd get that stuff right for a translation tool 04:12:40 *you'd 04:13:20 oerjan: works for me 04:13:27 oh wait hm 04:13:32 well i used the google translate built into chromium 04:13:57 i like these descriptions of languages 04:14:03 oerjan: Japanese esolang & obfuscation community is vibrant (to me), and it is more or less disjoint 04:14:16 to esolangs.org and etc. 04:14:53 _somehow_ i'd got a :443 port into there, it worked when i removed it. 04:14:55 Befunge　self-change possible two-dimensional array source code 04:15:13 Lazy K　in a pure functional language, rather than the syntax for defining a new function, built-in function does not exist only three 04:15:14 lifthrasiir: so i thought the english wikipedia should have a link to it 04:15:37 oerjan: I think there is no central point in Japanese community though 04:16:21 many activities occur in hatena diaries (Japanese's equvialent to LJs, or similar) of interested people 04:16:51 fungot: you should invent a programming language 04:16:51 shachaf: but big bucks are for it. if it's the code, forcer?... by clog? cmeme does the logging. 04:17:04 exactly 04:17:11 fungot: go for the big bucks 04:17:11 shachaf: okay, maybe someone will rip the eventual dvd subtitles... otherwise it works just as well? 04:17:37 also note that the community itself is smaller, but they have managed to make esolang and obfuscation (specifically code golfing) to a general pastime of Japanese programmers somehow 04:18:27 I don't know how it was possible 04:18:35 lifthrasiir: it seems like it overlaps significantly with golf in japan 04:18:41 to a greater extent than in the west 04:18:45 but i don't know how true this is 04:19:09 elliott: yes, code golfing is a lot popular in Japan than in the west (I think) 04:19:11 oh you just said that 04:19:38 and some of code golfers happen to be interested in esolangs 04:20:21 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:20:43 I haven't seen such unexpected popularity in Korea 04:21:48 (popularity, is of course relative, and we all know most programmers don't know even their existence, but golfing is relatively popular in Japan than in the west...) 04:25:18 i think any programming culture which has these kind of oddities at the forefront is pretty great 04:34:00 Bike: oh _Mathematics Made Difficult_ is good 04:34:28 is there golfing with assembly, like, writing the shortest assembly program in bytes? I guess demos are a little like that 04:34:47 so i've herad 04:34:48 heard 04:34:51 Yep. 04:34:57 There is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoptimization 04:35:14 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 04:35:26 it doesn't count in assembly since it might actually be useful. 04:35:37 True. 04:36:00 Fiora: imo we should play x86 golf 04:36:18 I don't think it's actually useful 04:36:24 like, you can do totally silly things that are really slow 04:36:38 but small 04:36:55 There are always extreme cases. 04:37:04 but that's the fun part! doing silly things 04:37:23 except when i do them 04:37:27 and then it's called being confusing 04:38:37 OK, I guess I'll fix lens instead. 04:41:21 zzo38: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer... HOLY SHIT 04:41:24 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Changing host). 04:41:24 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:41:36 They're in the wrong order, though. Everyone knows the order is GCAT, not ATGC. 04:42:06 I didn't know there is an order of the DNA. 04:47:11 Unrelated: I like how there's some consensus about what the most important mathematical concept is. 04:48:00 Namely, the function. 04:48:02 there's a lot of consensus about what the easiest mathematical concept is, too 04:48:27 Hm. Lemme try to think what I think the easiest mathematical concept is. 04:48:58 I'm gonna say... the contrapositive of the substitution principle. If two things differ in some way, then they are not the same thing. 04:49:09 leibniz equality? 04:50:43 Bike: help you're not even in #haskell 04:50:50 Hm. The Leibniz equality reminds me of a certain philosophical argument that there should be no uncountable sets. 04:50:55 why would i be in #haskell. 04:51:33 because ion is talking about leibniz equality in #haskell 04:51:44 Uncountable proper classes are okay, but there should be no uncountable sets. The idea is that given two different uncountable sets, it may be impossible to distinguish between them even given an infinite amount of time. 04:51:47 ok but that's some weird typery i don't really care about. 04:52:02 And if two things are impossible to distinguish, they should not be considered different. 04:52:08 So, uncountable sets should not be admitted. 04:52:21 tswett: sounds............. constructive 04:55:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:58:37 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 05:09:15 well i still don't know if there's a way to get a pointer to the Japanese community into wikipedia, but at least i found the KEMURI language to add to our wiki. 05:16:09 -!- Poolala has joined. 05:17:34 i wonder which IE designer had the bright idea of excluding https links from the _users own log_... 05:34:21 -!- geo5 has joined. 05:34:24 -!- geo5 has left. 05:53:01 It's Not About The Nail http://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg 06:04:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:05:48 -!- Bike has joined. 06:14:32 -!- Poolala has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:20:33 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:22:57 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:24:39 ion: and sometimes it really _isn't_ about the nail but everyone insists it is. 06:25:40 or maybe i just am that lady, sigh. 06:26:05 Sometimes the nail is just a penis. I mean a nail. 06:26:21 thank you, freudzie 06:38:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:21:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:22:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:23:00 i don't even get lambdabot to work with irc :( 07:23:16 -!- heroux has joined. 07:24:15 > "but i work just fine!" 07:24:16 "but i work just fine!" 07:25:12 do you have any idea what the parameters of the irc-connect function actually are? 07:25:58 i assume network name, network address, port, user name, ???, ??? 07:26:20 the last two may be passwort and join message or the like, but i'm pretty unsure 07:29:32 myname: you forgot the name and bloodtype of your firstborn 07:29:37 hth 07:29:51 oerjan: that's because there is no firstborn 07:30:10 ah. well then you cannot run lambdabot sorry 07:30:15 damn 07:31:33 i found nothing that looks like a documentation, though 07:31:47 @help irc-connect 07:31:47 irc-connect tag host portnum nickname userinfo. connect to an irc server 07:32:02 "yeah, there is this online.rc file, but we won't tell you what it looks like" 07:32:14 i see 07:32:23 tag, hostname, port, nick, user 07:32:25 how do i set a server password? 07:32:39 My lambdabot came with an online.rc... 07:32:43 I don't know if you can. 07:32:58 mine didn't 07:33:30 I guess ellimokus got rid of it. 07:33:32 i just threw out cabal install and got a dictionary with a bunch of binaries 07:33:51 Maybe try "cabal unpack lambdabot" 07:34:30 and then making the setup steps myself? 07:34:46 i really don't see the advantages, but well 07:35:09 if i can't provide a server password, it may be pretty useless for me nontheless 07:37:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:38:21 in the unpacked online.rc is "password.rc" as a parameter of the irc-connect command, but i don't find password.rc ... 07:39:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:45:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh). 07:45:29 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:47:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:47:36 :) 07:54:29 oh dear, just looking at the code makes me crying blood 07:55:32 :( 07:55:53 Which code? 07:55:58 "how hard can it be to look at how to add a password" 07:56:07 stupid me 08:08:52 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:44:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:53:32 shachaf: it was inevitable really 08:53:54 ? 08:54:00 Oh, your quote. 08:57:14 drugz https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1015321_10200452898865210_1550553282_o.jpg 08:57:46 drugz doing drugz #drugs 08:57:57 help where did that s come from 08:58:43 OH NO 09:02:17 ion: do you have a link / translation? 09:03:03 It’s just a boring article about people using more cannabis, the image was the funny part. 09:03:24 @ask zzo38 Are there TeX macros for typesetting Magic: the Gathering cards? 09:03:24 Consider it noted. 09:03:43 ion: yeah so why is there a syringe 09:03:50 someone is confused 09:03:57 kmc: http://repo.or.cz/w/TeXnicard.git 09:04:25 btw if the article says: how many people in your fair country smoke weed, anyway 09:04:39 oh good 09:05:31 huh, zzo338 runs an irc server 09:06:07 http://slbkbs.org/zzo38-irc.txt 09:06:42 what 09:07:06 +HITLER sounds awsome. 09:07:08 e 09:07:14 /join +HITLER 09:07:35 what's a + channel anyway 09:08:05 These unmoderated channels work almost exactly the same as '#' channels, except nobody can obtain channel operator status on them. Some implementations seem to set the channel mode to '+nt' upon creation, however most implementations act as if modes +nt are set but don't announce them as being set. 09:08:17 kmc: The only numbers in the visible part of the article are about 132 drugz-related crimes in Central Ostrobothnia last year, 114 in the preceding year. 09:08:43 ion: if i drugz will i become a criminal 09:08:46 is "having drugz" a drugz-related crime 09:09:53 kmc: I think so. The paragraph talks about “crimes related to the use and sales of cannabis”, which probably means “the use and sales of cannabis”. 09:10:08 then kind of a bullshit metric imo 09:10:20 y'all should join me on zzo38computer.org 09:10:22 port 194 09:10:29 is that the ICANN port for IRC? 09:10:39 irc 194/tcp 09:10:50 amazing 09:10:57 (IANA? whoever) 09:11:21 I,I reddit.com/r/IANA 09:32:06 -!- sacje has quit (*.net *.split). 09:32:06 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 09:37:49 -!- sacje has joined. 10:01:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:13:44 https://crypto.cat/ http://tobtu.com/decryptocat.php 10:14:45 good cryptography 10:43:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:58:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:22:31 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:11:23 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:34:58 -!- conehead has joined. 12:36:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:17:35 for some reason dbelange has an urban dictionary entry 13:18:07 (so does zzo) 13:20:16 "buy zzo38 mugs & shirts" it is amuse 13:20:32 Sadly there are no statistics as to how many have been bought. 13:20:56 Did you know that: I have one too. (But it's not one I'm very proud of.) 13:22:08 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:22:26 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 13:22:43 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:23:10 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:23:13 -!- Koen__ has joined. 13:27:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:32:59 -!- katla has joined. 13:44:38 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 13:44:39 -!- mnoqy has joined. 13:48:08 fizzie, you do? 13:48:22 i tried 'fizzie' but it just came up with the standard ridiculous sex act 14:02:29 -!- sacje has joined. 14:21:53 Yes, the standard ridiculous sex act is what I meant. 14:22:25 Also "The act of shoving Pop-Rocks (TM) into the male penis via the urethra. [add a video]" please don't add a video 14:34:29 Why, would you be obliged to watch it because it depicts something named after you, or something? 14:34:56 i don't think that's a video the world needs to contain 14:36:51 just do it 15:02:06 Deewiant: Isn't that how it works? (But also what P_H said.) 15:16:07 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:23:58 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:27:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:30:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:35:42 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 16:03:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:09:32 -!- katla has joined. 16:25:42 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:28:10 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:31:28 8j0 ÷ 0j1 gives me 0J0.125. what the shit 16:32:04 err, wait, 0j8. 16:33:24 oh it's still wrong... how do you mess up complex division, guy who made this 16:34:23 -!- conehead has joined. 16:34:23 it's pretty complex 16:34:49 that's not even a real pun fuck you 16:35:06 Bike: dont question me 16:35:20 that wasn't a question! 16:35:24 it was a statement< 1372972322 964856 :Gregor!~Gregor@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi 21:12:05 hi 21:12:09 basically glogbot just gives up after some hours each day, it seems 21:12:33 (which you'd, like, expect if the disks are full i guess) 21:21:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:23:55 Bags packed ready for Silicon Dreams tomorrow :-) 21:24:15 * itsy hopes they're selling some cool stuff... 21:24:36 is that the electric sheep kind of dreams 21:26:10 oerjan: http://www.silicondreams.org.uk no sign of electric sheep :-( 21:28:20 looks charming 21:44:35 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:54:29 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:19:17 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:20:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:41:58 dammit i think cabal is breaking because i named by new laptop's user "Ørjan" 22:42:29 it compiles everything fine and then gives invalid byte sequences on the final registrations 22:43:05 hah 22:44:00 cute 22:46:20 oerjan: nasty 22:46:28 surprising that they don't handle that, maybe there's an issue for it... 22:47:12 oh no the "new haskell script" shortcut from the file browser isn't there. hm maybe it was actually hugs that made that on my old laptop, way back. 22:48:17 elliott: of course if they _have_ fixed it, i probably cannot install the fixed version D: 22:49:20 oerjan: sounds like an excellent time to install linux >:) 23:02:01 right after i get rid of this crippling loss of motivation to do anything involving yak shaving. (except agoran Yaks, they're cool.) 23:03:20 clearly what I need to do is bring an ubuntu CD to trondheim. 23:12:22 -!- maddock has joined. 23:23:38 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 23:25:19 i'm blanking on a clever way to compute x // 2 + x // 4 + x // 8 + ..., help 23:25:35 if x = 2^n it's n-1 but that's all i got 23:26:47 oh, i guess i can just iterate //2, that's something 23:27:26 what's // and how's its precedence 23:27:43 integer division 23:27:58 i forget the actual way you write it 23:29:31 presumably depends on language (haskell is `div` or `quot`) 23:29:53 tryin' to be all mathy here donchaknow 23:29:58 but like 15 // 2 = 7, 16 // 2 = 8, etc 23:30:10 in that case [ x / 2 ] is one way 23:30:35 er, i'm guessing [] isn't iverson bracket 23:31:00 except _ideally_ without top horizontal part of brackets 23:31:21 no, it's floor 23:31:28 er, how's that wor. 23:31:29 work 23:31:32 Bike wouldn't that give a similar result as multiplying by MAXINT-1 and taking the high word of the result? Which might be similar to computing 0-x. 23:32:15 itsy: i think you get trouble with the bits you want to cut off giving carry into the bits you want to keep 23:32:48 well like, this(15) = 11 for instance 23:32:59 also i'd kind of like to generalize it to bases other than two. 23:33:15 oerjan: surely [...] is rounding 23:33:16 ...now you're just being difficult :P 23:33:29 or alternatively, doesn't it have to be ceiling as well. 23:33:45 well floor(15/2) isn't 11 anyway so i don't get what oerjan meant. 23:33:53 elliott: i vaguely thought it meant floor by default, but you always want 23:34:04 Bike: i mean 15 // 2 = floor (15 / 2) 23:34:05 Bike: he meant for denoting integer division 23:34:11 oh 23:34:13 boring 23:34:18 oerjan: I always want? 23:34:33 *always want to cut off top or bottom for clarity 23:35:06 right 23:35:14 `relcome maddock 23:35:21 ​maddock: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:35:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floor_and_ceiling_functions#Notation 23:35:54 itsy: i'm not sure what you meant but (x * (2^n)-1) >> n doesn't work 23:36:16 Bike: what i'm thinking is this is sort of a summing of a triangle of bits 23:36:54 elliott: clearly you cannot consider gauss to be _wrong_ hth 23:36:57 maybe start with y=1, result=0. If the right bit of x is set then result=result+y. Then shift x right. shift y left and add 1. Then repeat until x=0 23:37:31 oerjan: pfft, what's gas but a load of hot air 23:37:54 oerjan: kind of bizarre that APL lead to a change in common mathematical notation... 23:38:06 for such simple operations 23:38:27 well who uses floor and ceiling besides CS people anyway 23:38:34 oerjan: btw i have no idea what triangle of bits means 23:38:47 Bike: oh now i see the confusion - the notation _was_ invented by iverson, but it's not what's called "iverson brackets" :P 23:38:53 oh, yeah, no 23:39:02 iverson brackets is [foo] = 1 if foo is true, 0 otherwise 23:39:08 kinda useful but not like. related. 23:39:24 I think Dijkstra liked those 23:39:35 though he hated APL I guess 23:39:47 dijkstra hated everything, though 23:39:55 oh maybe it was Knuth who liked it 23:40:02 oh yeah he uses it all the time 23:40:05 Bike: yeah but he was cuddly on the inside. 23:40:25 so are hedgehogs 23:41:13 hedgehogs are great 23:42:42 tru 23:43:42 Knuth uses it in his book 23:44:03 can you express the halting problem as an iversen bracket 23:44:22 maybe it would have to be two brackets nested 23:45:10 H(x) = [x halts] 23:46:28 what i really wanted was an iverson bracket you cant give the value 0 or 1 to 23:53:06 i can't give a value to [is {some set of matrices} mortal] :P 23:53:37 but that does have a value 0 or 1 23:53:40 even if we cant find it 23:54:00 well an iverson bracket is defined to have a value of 0 or 1. 23:54:07 that's just... how it's defined 23:55:00 well X = [X = 0] can't be given a value. 23:55:08 I still think there's some non recursive X I could write [X] and argue that it cant be given as 0 or 1 23:55:50 what's the difference between "does have a value [...] even if we cant find it" and "cant be given as 0 or 1" 23:55:52 and I think you can do it with 2 []'s but not 1 23:56:09 elliott: heh 23:56:17 I would assume that for any given P you can prove ~([P] <> 0 /\ [P] <> 1) 23:56:21 Bike i want an actual contradiction from assuming [X] = 0 or [X] = 1 23:56:34 elliott what if P includes iverson brackets too? 23:56:35 well uh, elliott gave that 23:56:43 nonrecursive 23:56:45 and excluded middle gives [P] = 0 \/ [P] = 1 presumably 23:56:52 katla: well, hmm 23:56:56 oh, i thought you meant "recursive" like "computable" 23:56:58 yeah, I don't actually know 23:57:06 elliott's is just the liar paradox and there are nonrecursive liar paradoxes 23:57:34 (quick, how do you do yields falsehood) 23:57:37 like, I think the function [-] : Prop -> 2 existing is just equivalent to LEM? 23:58:05 to go from that to LEM is easy, you just plug the proposition into the function and then you get either a proof of P or not P by the definition of [-]. 23:58:19 to go the other way, you define the function by casing on whether the proposition you're given is true or not. 23:58:56 sounds legit 2013-07-05: 00:05:33 [] aren't actually used in APL at all 00:05:48 well, they are, but they're used for indexing, not iverson brackets 00:06:35 shachaf and Gracenotes are in my living room 00:07:17 hichaf 00:07:20 hinotes 00:07:21 are they high 00:07:36 kmc, did you let them in 00:08:08 yes 00:08:10 Bike: no 00:08:58 aw 00:09:40 i guess the iverson bracket is well defined :( 00:09:48 it annoys me that you cant break it 00:10:42 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:10:43 well it's well defined insofar as letting you put arbitrary propositions everywhere is well defined 00:12:11 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:14:47 Bike: i am hi 00:14:49 hi Bike 00:14:57 hi shachaf 00:15:21 hi 00:15:37 hi Gracenotes 00:17:08 -!- katla has quit (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.). 00:21:21 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for hi people | [ WOMAN VOCALIZING ] ♪♪ [ MAN SPEAKING BACKWARDS ] | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 00:29:12 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:46:44 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:54:20 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:00:07 shachaf: is this the biggest #esoteric meetup yet?? 01:00:58 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:13:22 meetup????? 01:21:02 yes 01:21:06 meet. up. 01:21:30 hm i don't know where nooodl or quintopia lives 01:21:42 turns out everyone in #esoteric lives in san francisco. spooky 01:21:59 not sf 01:22:42 later this month i might be quite close to hexham though... fsvo close (i'll be "in the uk") 01:23:21 you can visit taneb 01:25:10 can i visit taneb 01:25:34 no 01:26:58 if i end up going to hexham somehow it'd only be fitting not to visit anyone there 01:29:22 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 01:29:33 wheres taneb 01:30:46 hexham 01:32:17 update on previous question: i found a really easy algorithm and i don't now how it works because i forgot 01:32:29 -!- tswett_ has joined. 01:37:38 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:38:50 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 01:38:50 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (*.net *.split). 01:38:50 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 01:38:50 -!- sivoais has quit (*.net *.split). 01:38:50 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (*.net *.split). 01:38:50 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 01:38:50 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 01:40:22 -!- variable has joined. 01:45:48 -!- ion has joined. 01:46:18 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:46:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:49:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:50:19 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:50:41 -!- nycs has joined. 01:53:54 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 01:54:31 -!- atehwa has joined. 01:54:51 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Client Quit). 01:57:42 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:59:18 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 01:59:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 01:59:19 -!- atehwa_ has quit (*.net *.split). 01:59:19 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 01:59:46 -!- jix_ has joined. 01:59:48 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 01:59:57 -!- kmc_ has joined. 02:00:24 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 02:00:30 -!- Lumpio_ has joined. 02:00:38 * oerjan spots mysanthrop, myname's evil twin 02:02:06 what happen 02:02:07 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:02:12 shachaf: shachaf! 02:02:22 * oerjan sees wikipedia lists some important anniversaries for today 02:02:39 hiuaf 02:03:33 <3 02:03:50 today we celebrate america by drinixing beer and listening to canadian post-rock music 02:04:01 well i do anyway 02:04:10 i guess for you americans these anniversaries are tomorrow. 02:04:26 wait did services disappear 02:04:45 anarchy, &c. 02:05:27 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 02:05:28 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 02:05:28 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 02:05:28 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 02:05:28 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 02:05:28 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 02:05:28 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 02:05:56 chanserv seems to respond "No such nick/channel" to every command, including help :P 02:06:12 oops, the pizza 02:06:40 -!- ion has joined. 02:12:03 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:15:37 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:17:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:19:49 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:28:56 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:29:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:48:11 oh wait duh, it's not chanserv responding, it's the server saying chanserv doesn't exist XD 02:49:22 how am I going to ban everyone now?? 02:49:23 -!- sacje has joined. 02:49:33 patience, elliott 02:54:40 kmc_: are you and shachaf talking over IRC while being in the same room 02:55:54 elliott: i was going to comment on that but then realized it was a mandatory geek ritual 02:57:10 does it count as a ritual if it's just because you're dorks 02:57:58 elliott: hm this is getting serious, we need to ban Bike now but cannot 02:58:42 hey i've done it too!! 02:58:45 i'm an "insider" here 02:58:52 oh okay 02:59:12 just go back into elliott's general queue then 02:59:26 k 03:00:22 * Fiora steals the top of elliott's queue 03:01:06 congratulations, you have spared one person from the onslaught... at the end..... one person in #esoteric shall remain unbanned 03:01:14 you may bet amongst yourselves as to who it is 03:01:25 that's obvious, zzo38. 03:01:32 it's actually glogbot. 03:01:45 pretty zen, imo. 03:09:08 or I'll just occupy elliott forever with magical friendship beams 03:09:13 then he'll never ban anyone! 03:09:24 Bike: help 03:09:41 truly my plan is foiled. 03:09:50 yeah i'm no match for friendship beams sorry 03:09:54 Bike: useful tip! elliott is weak to friendship 03:10:06 * Bike writes in quest manual 03:10:30 so when you need to get past elliott, don't try to attack him, just ask nicely and offer to have nice long conversations with him! then just give him some cookies and go on your way 03:10:41 useful tip for final bosses 03:11:22 looks like I gotta resign ops. will never get to ban anyone at this rate. 03:11:28 fuck, cookies might be hard 03:11:29 my weaknesses, laid bare. 03:11:36 elliott: it's ok you can still ban unfriendly people 03:11:56 not that i have any idea why anyone would want to do that. 03:12:37 Bike: the hardness can be balanced with chocolate hth 03:12:45 good point 03:13:23 also, brits love stale cookies. 03:13:27 how about chocolate cookies? 03:13:31 chocolate fudge brownies? 03:13:37 with chocolate syrup and strawberries 03:14:26 fiendish, fiora 03:14:44 fiora is clearly a veteran of many battles 03:14:49 fiendora 03:14:59 whoever said we need a portmanteau bot is right. 03:15:10 um i thought we did 03:15:14 `word 50 03:15:16 bal cadiffel fo in clemoricomiclet ia symparokip mcepapj lazcansori jambselle nehagelifiigmedinttaceldstricidamil annkoech ingie frivskelen twelmaban kleselix pellisphteci etu ime pels adcad calidenticelpe neptes handrinco glawa non chby irmullated duresticntre glethriewiverig igue sum mas alme manaecans probiletyburzenrized succs nlelon nits ston 03:15:45 mind you, they should have been portmanteaus in a real language. 03:15:46 no, a bot to make a portmanteau given some words. 03:15:48 keep up oerjan. 03:16:05 oh, a portmanbot, gotcha 03:16:27 see, what if it was portmanbeaut? this is why it's necessary 03:16:35 who wrote `thanks again? noodl? let's make him do it 03:16:49 ideally if you said "foo, bar" it would portmanteau them automatically. 03:17:07 then we could replace shachaf with it :P 03:18:11 ooh, cleverchaf 03:29:10 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 03:29:41 somebody tell me how the series floor(x*b^-n) over n works. 03:30:21 very well 03:30:35 for positive n. 03:30:38 it's important 03:31:59 elliott hurry it up! 03:32:10 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:32:31 Bike: I told you! it works very well. 03:32:56 your the fucking wurst 03:33:07 hi 03:33:13 wurst? mmm sausage 03:33:17 hi mnoqy 03:36:45 Bike: it is decreasing hth 03:39:22 -!- mastring has joined. 03:39:35 Here's a fun challenge. Can you write a program which prompts for the number of elements and then displays and output like: http://pastebin.com/bnziw40r 03:39:48 The pattern is simple. First write one's(1) along the top for the number of elements, then write one's(1) down for number of elements - 1 and then back along the bottom for number of elements -2 and then back up again for number of elements - 3 and so on and so on... 03:40:10 @oeis 1,2,4,6,10,12,16,18,22 03:40:12 Primes minus 1.[1,2,4,6,10,12,16,18,22,28,30,36,40,42,46,52,58,60,66,70,72,7... 03:40:31 oh, wow. 03:41:24 mastring: i believe that is called a spiral. also 03:41:26 `welcome mastring 03:41:28 mastring: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:43:07 Thanks :) 03:44:25 I did a solution in C 03:48:03 Would be nice to see some esoteric solutions :) 03:49:09 eek 03:51:11 it looks to me like a problem that _needs_ a mutable 2d array for the solution to be simple 03:51:29 oerjan: don't tempt me to try and find a cute functional knot-tying solution 03:51:47 elliott: um, tempting to tempt you, there 03:52:51 hm perhaps you could calculate based on the center somehow 03:54:38 funge98 should be able to handle this, anyway. 03:57:17 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:57:21 You think? 03:57:37 funge98 is good with 2d stuff, being a 2d language 03:58:08 one thing i'm thinking here is that everything except for the left edge is part of a pattern that can be extended infinitely outwards 03:58:51 well, if it was more than 10 there'd be more empty columns right 03:59:38 what i mean is that logically you'd want 1's down that left edge instead of 0's 04:00:15 * Bike counts on fingers 04:00:16 oh yeah. 04:01:22 It looks simple until you look at it and then you realize you can't solve it the way you thought and then you think and think and think and wait a minute all I have to do is....This is a simple problem after all. ;P 04:04:23 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:05:37 mastring: note that if you remove the left edge, then it's entirely symmetric between 0's and 1's if you rotate it 180 degrees 04:07:56 yea 04:08:46 Are you trying to solve it functionally? and the first implementation that came to mind was to rotate the permutations lexically: 04:08:56 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51836583/Screenshots/oh.png 04:09:10 That way, an odd cardinality simply doesn't render. 04:09:20 Just what I thought of then, idk :P 04:11:09 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:11:47 well i'm thinking of a weirder way of building the n+1 case from the n one 04:11:50 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 04:12:15 basically, rotate the matrix clockwise, then put a line of 1's on top and a line of 0's on the bottom (this ignores the left edge) 04:14:03 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:14:19 -!- Bike has joined. 04:15:36 hm this _would_ be possible in a knot-tying way, wouldn't it. 04:15:54 well, or recursive, anyway 04:16:36 * elliott is glad to have planted the seed in oerjan's mind 04:16:39 ok well, i worked something out. sum of floor(x*b^-n) for positive n is (x - base b digital sum of x)/(b-1). 04:16:50 floor is the worst clearly 04:17:16 this is rather pointless since computing digital sum is hard anyway but still. 04:17:41 Bike: i wasn't really expecting a more efficient method than shifting and looping, here 04:18:02 i can dream 04:20:07 i'm just glad i worked out something resembling a fact, in the pursuit of something unrelated and also pointless 04:24:06 > let spiral 1 = ["1","0"]; spiral n = replicate n '1' : (transpose . reverse $ spiral (n-1)) ++ [replicate n '0'] in var . unlines $ spiral 5 04:24:07 Ambiguous occurrence `var' 04:24:07 It could refer to either `Data.Number.Symbolic.... 04:24:13 elliott!!! 04:24:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:24:25 waht 04:24:26 ughh 04:24:28 um 04:24:34 how dare you ruin my favorite text unescaper :( 04:24:44 > let spiral 1 = ["1","0"]; spiral n = replicate n '1' : (transpose . reverse $ spiral (n-1)) ++ [replicate n '0'] in text . unlines $ spiral 5 04:24:44 11111 04:24:45 00001 04:24:45 01101 04:24:45 01001 04:24:45 01111 04:24:47 00000 04:25:07 which one should I import 04:25:13 05:24:33 It could refer to either `Data.Number.Symbolic.var', 04:25:14 05:24:33 imported from `Data.Number.Symbolic' at L.hs:82:1-27 04:25:16 05:24:33 or `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.var', 04:25:18 i guess probably the latter 04:25:20 05:24:33 imported from `Debug.SimpleReflect' at L.hs:93:1-26 04:25:47 huh i think they both are useful for this purpose, although i _think_ the former used to be imported 04:25:54 hm old lambdabot had - yes 04:26:05 seems like the latter is more general... 04:26:06 the latter can be faked with fun ... :: Expr 04:26:45 mastring: anyway that's how you can do it functionally in haskell :) 04:26:51 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:27:00 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to Guest83873. 04:27:01 -!- variable has changed nick to Guest13514. 04:27:01 I am tempted to import the latter because I can import the former module as S but would have a harder time coming up with a single-letter alias for the latter 04:27:03 -!- sacje has changed nick to Guest21838. 04:27:04 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:27:12 ok 04:27:28 -!- Guest13514 has quit (Changing host). 04:27:28 -!- Guest13514 has joined. 04:27:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:28:00 oh hm 04:28:00 -import Data.Number.Symbolic hiding (var) 04:28:01 -import qualified Data.Number.Symbolic as Sym 04:28:01 +import Data.Number.Symbolic 04:28:10 (diff -u Pristine.hs .lambdabot/State/Pristine.hs) 04:28:18 I guess I intended to do that but never actually put it in the actual file 04:28:46 @undefine 04:28:46 Undefined. 04:28:47 > sym "x" 04:28:48 Not in scope: `sym' 04:28:48 Perhaps you meant one of these: 04:28:48 `sum' (imported fro... 04:28:51 > var "x" 04:28:52 x 04:29:15 > let spiral 1 = ["1","0"]; spiral n = replicate n '1' : (transpose . reverse $ spiral (n-1)) ++ [replicate n '0'] in text . unlines $ spiral 10 04:29:16 1111111111 04:29:16 0000000001 04:29:16 0111111101 04:29:16 0100000101 04:29:16 0101110101 04:29:18 0101010101 04:29:20 010... 04:29:50 that extra space on the first line is a lambdabot quirk 04:30:36 oerjan: Would this work in ideone? 04:31:07 i assume so with a minor modification 04:35:32 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:35:33 oerjan: What sort? 04:36:17 wait a minute 04:37:05 http://ideone.com/VGXllV 04:45:55 -!- maddock has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:53:47 -!- Bike has joined. 04:58:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:00:08 -!- Bike has joined. 05:05:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:06:29 -!- Bike has joined. 05:14:59 oerjan: ooh chanserv is back 05:19:44 "Warrgle is a combination of war or warrior and eagle. It may also involve warble, a sound a bird makes. 05:19:44 " 05:19:50 tswett_, are you a pokemon? 05:23:30 does this mean i'm banned 05:23:54 do you want it to mean that 05:24:01 Sgeo_: i want to be a pokemon someday 05:24:10 What kind of pokemon? 05:24:11 is that a trick question 05:24:16 no 05:24:17 I like to play pokemon card. 05:24:45 My question would have been better if tswett_ used his other nick here 05:24:51 well, one of his other nicks 05:25:19 I think tswett_ has as many nicks and names as Gregor has hats 05:35:27 he even has a nick that is a wiki admin, although i wouldn't be surprised if he is unable to log in to it 05:36:48 last used 25 february 2009 05:39:50 the bounded gaps of primes project seems to have slowed seriously down :( 05:40:34 oerjan is all about the wiki admins now 05:40:52 the one i linked before? yeah, well, they made like ten billion percent improvement first so w/e 05:40:57 i'm all about power totally corrupting, yes 05:41:41 yeah but up until a week ago they had something every day 05:41:42 still waiting to hear back from Bike in re: whether he wants to be banned 05:41:57 these are tough decisions, elliott 05:42:17 Bike: I could kick you if you want a taste of what it's like 05:42:21 hm 05:42:29 Sgeo_: I need some advice. 05:42:58 Bike, with what? 05:43:10 And are you sure I'm the best person to ask for advice? 05:44:06 Yes. Do I want to be banned? 05:44:42 If you were a norn, I could attempt to peek in your brain to find out. Are you a norn? 05:45:01 sgeo... 05:45:14 i'm not srry 05:58:15 -!- Guest21838 has quit (Quit: Guest21838). 06:09:01 -!- Yonkie has joined. 06:09:33 `WeLcOmE Yonkie 06:09:36 YoNkIe: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 06:13:45 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:23:08 k. https://twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status/352408433506533377 06:23:43 "@ukhomeoffice fyi you seem to have been hacked by the edl" 06:24:22 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:28:34 ion: jesus 06:28:48 eeesh 06:29:06 "@ukhomeoffice you must have a harder example than finding them in the back of an Immigration Enforcement van?" 06:29:23 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:29:48 they have a whole bunch of tweets like that, the brits in my feed were yelling at them this morning :/ 06:29:57 by which i mean like last night? fuck time zones 06:31:03 ask elliott, he knows british time zones 06:31:07 and by knows, I mean 06:31:10 he sleeps through them 06:31:31 help. 06:31:45 what :< 06:31:47 if you sleep through a time zone do you come out on the other side 06:31:58 imo, yes. 06:32:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:32:21 that explains why you're awake at seven am and have been for like twelve hours 06:32:51 it's true, I've been awake at 7 am for like twelve hours. 06:32:54 time is stuck. send help 06:33:03 help I just wrote a short blog post on how fmap for functions is (.) on my mainly fandom blog 06:33:27 at seven am 06:33:28 did you have a homestuck character explain it 06:33:32 for the past 12 hours 06:33:35 Bike, no 06:33:42 I had a sign advertising ice cream explain it 06:33:46 well there's your problem 06:33:59 And I just joined 15 channels across 2 servers to say that and nothing else 06:33:59 bye 06:34:03 people aren't going to accept caleskellisms if they're not explained by a guy with horns! 06:34:06 bye 06:34:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 06:35:03 so speaking of shit, are hypergeometric functions cool? signs point to hell yes 06:45:45 -!- itsy has left. 07:21:23 hi elliott, oerjan 07:21:37 wow doesn't Bike get hi 07:21:49 hi Fiora, Taneb 07:22:10 hi the chaf 07:22:27 Fiora: it's a shame you couldn't come 07:22:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:23:09 funny, simon tatham's "single" puzzle becomes easier with larger board, because there are too many clues... 07:24:11 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:24:45 -!- TodPunk has joined. 07:31:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:34:53 Favourite low-ish quality video format for storing movies on SD cards? 07:36:00 gif 07:36:06 i was about to say flac 07:36:12 Lagarith 07:37:32 vt100 07:37:50 HAVE WE BEEN USELESS ENOUGH YET???? 07:37:56 no 07:38:29 :( 07:39:02 elliott: today was drugz day in san francisco 07:39:05 drugz everywhere 07:39:13 whats drugz day 07:39:14 I'm drugz too 07:39:15 smelled like freedom 07:43:01 mnoqy: drugz day is everyday 07:44:32 makes sense 07:45:12 mnoqy: hey, you're in california 07:45:15 how come you didn't come 07:47:09 :] 07:49:16 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:49:41 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:52:39 california is pretty small 07:55:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:13:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:21:11 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 08:28:32 -!- mnoqy has quit (*.net *.split). 08:28:32 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 08:40:38 !bfjoust 08:40:39 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 08:41:51 fizzie: what is the cycle limit these days? 08:43:30 The same hundred thousand, I believe. 08:43:41 thanks 08:43:46 * elliott is up to evil 08:44:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:46:20 -!- Bike has joined. 09:09:06 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:16:00 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:17:36 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:18:19 -!- jconn has joined. 09:21:52 ion: #drugz 09:22:14 #especiallydrugz 09:40:40 -!- aloril_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:54:35 -!- aloril_ has joined. 10:36:49 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:40:20 #esoteric 10:40:25 help where's the bot 10:41:31 -!- fungot has joined. 10:44:47 fungot: not you, oonbotti 10:44:47 shachaf: he said i should do 10:44:48 shachaf meant the other bot, fizzie. 10:45:15 fungot: well tell him you don't do 10:45:16 shachaf: ah right. i remember it doing some weird context-based stuff with 10:45:23 fungot: with what 10:45:24 shachaf: what i mean? riastradh ( i know, but when i go there; i should go 10:46:04 fungot: yes. you should go 10:46:04 shachaf: in that case fnord mode are you using? the operational or denotational one? i can't 10:46:15 fungot can't 10:46:23 um 10:46:35 i guess fungot really can't 10:46:51 ??? 10:46:56 fungot: hi 10:47:10 fungot, more like nofungot 10:47:18 ("bcuz ur no fun") 10:49:42 Bike: did you decide yet 10:50:33 -!- aloril_ has joined. 11:31:29 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:42:09 -!- aloril_ has quit (*.net *.split). 11:49:21 -!- aloril_ has joined. 12:04:08 Huh, that's funny; a (Linux) box where 'cc' is not GCC. (It's the PGI compiler instead.) 12:07:56 -!- ottianna has joined. 12:08:06 `relcome ottianna 12:08:12 ​ottianna: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. 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For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:25:44 Get Girls to Talk to You http://youtu.be/if8hveMIQPM 15:29:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:30:10 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 15:31:16 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:40:59 ion: Have you tried this advice? 15:41:13 I surely will. This advice is golden. 15:42:10 It sounds a bit work-intensive. 15:48:14 -!- scorpo has joined. 15:49:08 `relcome scorpo 15:49:11 ​scorpo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:49:39 ello 15:49:47 i 15:49:59 hi 15:50:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:55:53 Are there any programming language where a variable can have multiple types where the same data is valid as all types simultaneously? (This isn't a struct, where you have different fields, or a union, where only one type is usually valid at once) 16:05:48 Could kind of fake it with Haskell 16:06:53 ion: hmmm I was half-listening to the whole thing and then suddenly "you reach in your pants and hum you pull your hum chewing-gum out and you hum put it in her mouth" 16:06:55 wtf 16:07:23 I suppose a sum type might be kind of close, or if you had subtyping that might be kind of close 16:07:34 More awesomeness from the same dude. http://youtu.be/iG_QDyHxrnQ http://youtu.be/Dkls0ciI8l0?t=1m 16:09:29 zzo38: yes, any language with universal quantification 16:09:47 you can view (forall a. ...) as the intersection of ... over all a (due to parametricity) 16:09:58 ion he's bringing another human being into this I'm scared 16:10:03 elliott: Yes, I suppose that does it, but I actually meant something else that I wasn't clear. 16:10:13 did you mean 'intersection types' 16:10:15 e.g. (forall a. a -> a) is the intersection of (() -> ()) and (Integer -> Integer) and (Maybe String -> Maybe String) and ..., which is just {id} 16:10:17 Ick I can't seem to get to my bank's website 16:10:30 Perhaps what I really meant is for the data to be valid for multiple enumerations simultaneously, rather than meaning multiple types. 16:10:58 (So I suppose it is only one type; I mean enumerations) 16:11:07 Uh... chase.com why u have mixed content? 16:12:08 probably better to ask customer support than #esoteric 16:12:13 zzo38: what do you mean by multiple enumerations? 16:12:37 pfft mnoqy hasn't ever had a bank what oes he know 16:12:40 *does 16:12:52 i have a bank!!!! i just dont use it 16:13:03 -!- scorpo has changed nick to scorpo_food. 16:13:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:14:41 scorpo: For example in C you might have: typedef enum { AAA, BBB, CCC } ABC; typedef enum { XXX, YYY } XY; and then having some variables that are for one enumeration only, but some where the same data means both enumerations at once (so CCC won't do). 16:21:53 Oh, is Guest13514 Gregor? 16:21:58 Guest13514, note other channel 16:22:27 Guest13514 is variable 16:24:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Guest13514. 16:24:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Guest45049. 16:24:33 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Guest83873. 16:24:40 they're coming 16:25:41 I meant Guest22624 16:28:32 “and she is pretty hot, might I add” “and she was my cousin” “I’m just getting luckier and luckier with girls every day.” 16:30:45 * tswett_ chooses Gregor's hat. 16:33:42 ion: in that second video is that really the same guy? in the other videos he looked more oriental somehow 16:35:07 The first video is two years later than the cousin one. 16:44:03 -!- tswett_ has changed nick to tswett. 16:58:50 help I just ordered an incredibly expensive laptop 16:59:13 Is it any good? 16:59:15 -!- Guest83873 has changed nick to kmc. 17:00:21 I hope so 17:00:41 Apparently trackpad isn't great, and it's a bit heavy, but other than that it's regarded well I think 17:01:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:01:39 Oh and no touchscreen even though Windows 8 17:03:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:03:12 I have once set up someone's new laptop computer, having Windows 8, I don't think it had a touchscreen either. But, it isn't needed; you can use a mouse, and the keyboard; most of the keyboard commands are the same as the older versions of Windows, and cmd.exe still works too, so it shouldn't be too much trouble to use, due to that. 17:03:32 (In fact that was the only reason I was able to figure it out) 17:04:42 Sgeo_: which one? 17:04:49 Lenovo IdeaPad Y500 17:04:51 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:05:25 Also paid for some warranty stuff on it >.> 17:05:31 And a backpack 17:10:28 -!- matthiaskrgr has joined. 17:12:05 what is this channel about? 17:12:14 yes 17:12:20 `welcome matthiaskrgr 17:12:22 matthiaskrgr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:13:07 ah, so coding 17:13:15 `commands 17:13:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: commands: not found 17:13:19 it's not a very on-topic channel 17:13:22 lol 17:13:38 `help 17:13:38 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 17:13:39 there are 3 inhabitants of (∀a. a -> a) in Haskell right? 17:13:57 id, bottom, const bottom? 17:13:58 ⊥, const ⊥, and id 17:14:01 yup 17:14:34 does the HackEgo bot run shell commands? 17:14:40 yes 17:14:44 `uname -a 17:14:45 kmc: and unsafeCoerce "hello" 17:14:46 Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux 17:14:53 I wonder if exit works :P 17:15:06 `pwd 17:15:07 ​/hackenv 17:15:11 it actually boots up a new virtualized Linux system for each command 17:15:18 and then merges the filesystem changes using mercurial 17:15:19 really 17:15:21 o.o 17:15:29 so exit is save? :> 17:15:37 it's a no-op 17:16:09 `help 17:16:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: help: not found 17:16:18 err 17:16:26 `welcome matthiaskrgr 17:16:27 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found 17:16:32 hehe 17:16:53 `relcome matthiaskrgr 17:16:55 ​matthiaskrgr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:17:08 `paste bin/relcome 17:17:10 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/relcome 17:17:17 `paste bin/rainbow 17:17:19 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/rainbow 17:17:20 :D 17:18:14 Is unsafeCoerce :: a -> a guaranteed to be id? 17:18:27 `echo 1 > file ; cat file 17:18:28 1 > file ; cat file 17:18:57 `1 > file ; cat file 17:18:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 1: not found 17:19:05 Sgeo_: GHC does make such a guarantee, yes 17:19:19 it also guarantees that you can coerce between a newtype and the underlying type 17:19:28 and from any type to Any and back 17:19:42 and maybe other things 17:20:39 λ> unsafeCoerce (unsafeCoerce (succ :: Integer -> Integer) :: String -> String) (unsafeCoerce (42 :: Integer) :: String) :: Integer 17:20:41 43 17:21:57 I think I may have overspent 17:22:09 almost 1.5k 17:22:26 you have a job 17:22:27 you need a laptop 17:22:47 Yeah, but it doesn't need to be such an expensive laptop unless I want it for home too 17:23:55 shrug 17:24:01 Also, maybe I could have hoped that the reason the computers currently at my cubicle are so slow is just lack of memory, and bought some memory for them 17:29:45 My order was voided 17:29:46 wtf 17:30:37 matthiaskrgr: use `run if you want shell 17:31:14 `run echo 1 > file ; cat file 17:31:18 1 17:31:36 `rm file 17:31:40 No output. 17:33:15 -!- scorpo_food has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:34:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:51:37 May have typoed my street name 18:13:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 18:21:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:25:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:27:13 -!- Bike has joined. 18:29:00 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:37:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:38:34 -!- Bike has joined. 18:42:52 I am still not used to Feedly 18:46:01 Sgeo_, I'm using bazqux 18:46:45 It's quite nice 18:46:53 But also not free which is a bad thing 18:48:12 It pretty much convinced me to start paying for web software (even though I am still on the free trial) 18:48:16 I actually prefer it to Google Reader 18:50:28 The SMBC feed doesn't work sensibly for me in Feedly 18:55:25 Also screwed up the TDWTF feed 18:55:31 The CodeSOD ones 18:55:48 What other countries is the British ringback tone used in? Is it used in Germany? 18:59:48 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:07:04 Graham Nelson's Z-machine standards document has many errors in it. Infocom's document also has many errors in it. Therefore, I have to use both. 19:07:11 Doesn't seem so, based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringback_tone#Ringback_tone_characteristics 19:09:46 O, then I wonder what happened. I called someone cellular phone, I believe they are in Germany, but I got the British tone. Is this due to non-direct flights? 19:11:18 dammit, Sgeo_ 19:11:22 I'm reading SMBC again 19:14:30 Be sure not to forget about voteys 19:14:42 If this is the first time you're learning of voteys, have fun 19:15:52 Oh, I know about voteys 19:23:36 -!- conehead has joined. 19:36:45 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:42:44 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:44:06 I shall entomb him in guilded halls 19:44:36 awww, the dead weaver was a mother of a small baby 19:52:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:54:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:55:45 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:15:51 -!- shachaf has quit (Changing host). 20:15:51 -!- shachaf has joined. 20:20:12 The Great Gatsby VFX http://vimeo.com/68451324 20:28:46 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:32:59 -!- Zerker has joined. 20:35:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:46:33 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:46:51 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:52:37 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 20:53:47 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:55:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:12:38 -!- Zerker has joined. 21:22:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:22:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:22:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:23:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:23:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:23:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:24:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:24:20 -!- glogbot has joined. 21:24:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:24:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:28:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:31:11 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]). 21:35:13 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:35:39 -!- Zerker has joined. 21:38:30 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 21:38:49 -!- conehead has joined. 21:40:03 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:40:30 -!- Zerker has joined. 21:42:04 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:34 -!- Zerker has joined. 21:45:11 @messages? 21:45:11 Sorry, no messages today. 21:45:25 -!- Zerker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:46:02 @messages 21:46:02 You don't have any messages 21:46:14 @tell oerjan You don't have any messages 21:46:14 Consider it noted. 21:46:45 hi oerjan 21:46:55 hi shachaf 21:46:59 hoerjan 21:47:05 help 21:47:32 -!- Zerker has joined. 21:47:56 @tell elliott i think i'd like a command that works like /msg lambdabot @messages, except that it says _nothing_ in private or elsewhere if there are no messages. 21:47:56 Consider it noted. 21:48:39 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:48:57 @tell elliott that way i think i can get them automatically in a window when i join, but without showing activity if there are none 21:48:57 Consider it noted. 21:49:14 @list messages 21:49:14 tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages 21:49:15 -!- Zerker has joined. 21:49:54 oerjan: The current behavior is that if you have any messages, lambdabot will /msg you about it as soon as you say anything at all. 21:50:03 well yes 21:50:05 So just saying anything has this behavior. 21:50:16 well, hm... 21:50:34 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:50:37 i guess. except for the part where i have to say @messages in the query window too. 21:50:46 Well, yes, I suppose. 21:50:51 But that's only if you have messages. 21:51:11 hm, let me adjust my settings... 21:52:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Testing). 21:52:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:53:44 oh fuck, why the hell does irssi show activity on just "Starting query in freenode with lambdabot"... 21:54:03 You can change irssi's act settings 21:54:34 I have no idea if this is some kind of troll or a person who really feels like that, or how to deal with it http://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1hpp4c/it_seems_inevitable_that_i_will_kill/ 21:55:44 FreeFull: i'm sure you can, but irssi's help menus suck my lifeforce out of me when trying to figure things out 21:56:30 Then use a different documentation of irssi or a different program? 21:56:37 oerjan: I have done it 21:57:29 oerjan: You probably want /set activity_hide_level something 21:58:14 yes. imagine if irssi actually had builtin _help_ on the set options. 21:59:20 ?messages-loud 21:59:20 kmc asked 1d 12h 55m 56s ago: Are there TeX macros for typesetting Magic: the Gathering cards? 22:00:01 kmc: No, but I would make up a way to type spoilers of cards using it, if we could have the necessary font. 22:01:48 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Guest13514. 22:01:49 -!- Guest13514 has changed nick to variable. 22:02:58 even the _online_ documentation for activity_hide_level doesn't link to what the levels _are_... 22:03:16 maybe they are integers 22:03:23 which means i'm already two levels of yak shaving beyond my comfort zone. 22:03:59 and about one level from full rage. 22:04:28 * oerjan is not easy to please. 22:07:57 dammit i did the mistake of blathering before opening the logs again. they changed IE so that when i search for my nick, you can _only_ go one step forwards or backwards in the list of searches, so it is horrible to get to anywhere not near the beginning or end. 22:09:20 and of course no one actually mentioned my nick in the period i'm trying to search XD 22:10:24 it's like, when using IE 8 i had so many tiny convenience habits dependent on _precisely_ how it worked, and they've managed to remove a _dozen_ of them... 22:11:08 like, i actually used the address bar dropdown menu as a queue of which of my usual sites i'd remembered to visit recently :P 22:12:00 which depended on the exact rules for _what_ IE puts there and not, the fact that it's a long list and that it's organized in a queue fashion by last visit. 22:14:57 and then current IE has shortened the list to just 5 elements (you can see a 6th if you explicitly delete one of the visible ones), and no way to prevent an address you write from being added (admittedly the last part was really hacky even with IE 8) 22:15:44 Can those settings be changed? 22:15:49 and don't get me started on how the address line autocomplete works 22:15:56 zzo38: i have no idea. 22:16:26 Did you look in the registry setting? 22:16:30 also, i have no particular reason to believe any _other_ browser would care about doing things the ways it works. 22:17:22 zzo38: that would be essentially the equivalent of reading irssi's /set listing, except _worse_, no? so see above about yak shaving and rage. 22:18:03 Then modify some other one to do how you want. Often they have these things that some people like but is hardly ever had. For example, one feature I happen to like is a relative location bar, and I have not seen that anywhere. 22:18:08 (if i can even _find_ the registry. not that i've tried.) 22:19:52 zzo38: the problem is not really technical, but mental. 22:19:56 But, I don't know if anyone else would prefer a relative location bar, anyways. Do you know? 22:20:12 oerjan: O, yes, it always is mental, too. 22:20:19 This causes a lot of problems. 22:25:44 heh another problem which english speakers may not appreciate: when your OS is heavily nationalized, it's sometimes impossible to figure out the right english words for when you _do_ try to google problem-solving fora. 22:27:16 like, i know no:"fane" = en:"tab" because i've seen tabs discussed often enough on the internet, but this doesn't work for terms i've only seen in the nationalized programs/help on my own computer... 22:28:02 some things you can guess, like kontrolpanel -> control panel, but others are harder. 22:28:50 of course microsoft _do_ have nationalized online help pages, but they naturally don't go into the depth needed. 22:30:01 hmm, is that fane as in the kind of flag? 22:30:15 olsner: yeah probably 22:30:39 i guess it's a weird term to choose, but i'm not sure there's a better one. 22:31:04 just transliterating the word "tab" would probably be better 22:31:06 does "tab" mean anything? 22:31:40 I think those divider things you have in binders are called tabs 22:31:55 hm i suppose. what are those in norwegian i wonder. 22:32:07 sv:flik 22:32:11 skilleark is the term that pops up 22:32:23 (in my mind) 22:33:13 tab: A small flap or strip of material attached to something, for holding, manipulation, identification, etc. 22:35:04 bah wiktionary lists only swedish, not norwegian :/ 22:36:32 wikipedia's tab disambiguation page doesn't seem to _list_ the binder meaning. although heaps of others. 22:43:00 -!- ggherdov has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 22:43:00 -!- iamcal___ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:00 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:00 -!- ssue__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:26 "välilehti", lit. something like "between-leaf", from the binder meaning, is the official Finnish term for tab. 22:47:55 btw Gracenotes, shachaf it was fun hanging out with you yesterday 22:48:10 my theory is they chose "fane" because norwegian doesn't actually _have_ a word for the archive meaning. 22:49:36 Hanging out? With #eoteric people? Is that even legal! 22:49:54 of course it's not legal, but so weren't the drugs 22:50:41 or wait, i started looking at some sites selling the actual physical ones... 22:50:42 Wait, Gracenotes is in #esoteric? I've never noticed that.. 22:51:06 i am being forced to conclude "fane" _is_ the technical term for them. 22:53:24 oerjan: Maybe they've been renamed to that, after they chose it for the UI-y meaning. 22:55:49 that's disturbingly plausible. 22:59:21 new game: writing C++ functions such that the mangled names spell amusing things 22:59:48 example plz 23:01:48 i wonder, way back in time, whether there were computers that tried hard to _keep_ a tcp connection open even if your network connection drops dead for half a second. seems like something you'd want to build into the protocol, really. 23:03:58 (inb4 linux does hth) 23:04:24 My computer didn't have any trouble keeping TCP connections (to IRC servers) open over a dozen-or-so-seconds PPP hangup+redial+negotiation cycle, way back when I had to do that once every 30 minutes for pricing-related reasons. 23:04:56 thought so. 23:07:01 (The phone company used to have a flat per-call fee for calls on weekends, and 17-05 on weekdays; then when the Internet started happening, they changed it so that the per-call fee covered only the first 30 minutes, and after that there was a per-minute fee, that was significantly higher than 1/30th of the per-call fee.) 23:08:10 that was one of the most annoying things with mac when I had one, every tcp connection is force-closed immediately when your network cable pops out 23:08:38 ... and the ethernet port was recessed so that the clip to hold the cable didn't work 23:09:37 anyway, what usually keeps TCP connections open in situations like that is just TCP itself doing its thing 23:11:11 I think I did have to do the hangup in some other way than "kill and restart pppd", because I have a feeling bringing the interface down would in fact have killed connections. 23:12:03 sounds reasonable 23:20:54 That makes me wonder if NetworkManager is silly enough to spork off everything if the cable pops off. ("Normally" that wouldn't affect the configuration at all, but I know it keeps sniffing at link status.) 23:23:17 to be fair, there could be an issue if you're on a trusted network, get reconnected to an untrusted one and restart sending data right away 23:34:20 hm the outside ip of my machine doesn't change with disconnection, at least. 23:43:34 Ooh, linear logic apparently lets you handle arrays efficiently in a functional language. 23:44:17 It does? What is the way it does? 23:44:21 Have a function of type Array that lets you create an array, and functions that let you copy and delete arrays. 23:44:47 Then for setting, you can have a function of type (Array * index * value) -o Array, and for getting, you can have a function of type (Array * index) -o (Array, value). 23:45:16 I guess you could do exactly the same thing in Haskell. 23:45:38 But with this, the compiler knows that Arrays won't be copied or deleted except by using the "copy" and "delete" functions. 23:47:03 What is the comma going to do? It doesn't seem to be one of the operators of linear logic. 23:47:19 Whoops, that was supposed to be an asterisk. 23:47:28 OK 23:47:48 Denoting multiplicative conjunction ("you have both things"). 23:48:12 (There isn't an asterisk in linear logic either, but I see, you mean the "times" symbol (multiplication conjunction, like you waid).) 23:52:01 If this is the first time you're learning of voteys, have fun <-- argh what are voteys 23:52:06 kmc: Yep, was fun! 23:53:05 oerjan, the big red button things 23:53:17 oh. whew, i knew that. 23:53:29 wtf are they called voteys 23:53:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentometer ? 23:53:53 oerjan: they used to only be shown to people who voted for the comic 23:53:58 hth 23:54:01 aha 23:58:20 tat 23:59:43 thanks, T.S.W. Ett 2013-07-06: 00:00:09 You're welcome, S. H. A. C. H. Af. 00:06:16 Gracenotes: Do you understand the Eilbenberg-Moore category thing? 00:07:02 shachaf: I don't think I've seen those names in mah life 00:08:13 shachaf: read the Charity paper 00:08:15 it's interesting and stuff 00:08:16 kmc, shachaf, Gracenotes: what did you guys end up doing 00:08:20 there are commutative diagrams 00:08:40 nooodl: first we got hi by greeting each other for a while 00:08:45 and hugz all around 00:09:16 ghc joke 00:12:02 I really like the symmetry linear logic would give the getChar and putChar functions: getChar :: RealWorld -o (RealWorld * Char), putChar :: (RealWorld * Char) -o RealWorld 00:12:33 i hear realworld is satanic 00:12:43 i hear Bike is satanic 00:12:44 though those types are isomorphic to what Haskell has 00:12:45 In actual Haskell, yeah, I think so. 00:12:57 modulo optimization 00:13:09 i saw a sign on a church which i thought said satan worship 00:13:13 but it actually said sunday worship 00:13:18 Yeah, doesn't GHC have IO a = RealWorld -> (RealWorld, a) internally? 00:13:24 Or something like that? 00:13:35 "something like that", sure. 00:13:37 RealWorld is unboxed and so is the tuple 00:13:48 btw do people here use bessel functions. they seem cool. i like them 00:13:57 And also it's not RealWorld, it's State# RealWorld. 00:14:06 And it has nothing to do with the normal world-passing explanation of IO. 00:14:11 it's more like a low-level IO operation says "I will only give you back a real world when I'm done doing my thing, damnit" 00:14:12 It's just implementation trickery. 00:14:31 State# RealWorld fits in a zero-sized register. 00:14:35 let me show you my bessels 00:14:46 for example, putChar will only give you back a () when it gets an Int, namely the one that's returned from a write syscall 00:14:58 Bike: hm where was the place i heard about Bessel functions 00:15:25 So like "data IO a = IO (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #))" or something? 00:15:49 imo ghci knows the exact definition (:i) 00:15:52 or 00:15:53 @src IO 00:15:53 Source not found. Are you on drugs? 00:15:56 help 00:16:14 I will halp 00:16:14 Anyway most things people say about this definition are false. 00:16:16 Looks like yeah, it's exactly what I just said. 00:17:16 shachaf: so does this mean that >>= for IO doesn't actually look like >>= for State, as one would think? 00:17:23 unIO :: IO a -> (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #)) 00:17:23 unIO (IO a) = a 00:17:26 there's that 00:17:34 also: bindIO (IO m) k = IO $ \ s -> case m s of (# new_s, a #) -> unIO (k a) new_s 00:18:01 That looks just like >>= for State, doesn't it? 00:18:16 and GHC.Types, newtype IO a = IO (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #)) 00:18:38 so, err, essentially what you said 00:18:39 The only point of it is to tell the compiler about certain data dependencies etc. that it's not allowed to do certain involving. 00:19:10 shachaf: btw: I don't know where the place you heard about bessels was?? 00:19:32 Bike: btw: ok?? 00:19:38 ok 00:23:24 scroll_count=0; 00:23:47 scroll_count+=4; 00:23:55 No. You have to put zero 00:24:19 scroll_count == scroll_count = scroll_count; 00:24:26 scroll_count*=1e518; 00:24:36 you don't tell me what i have to do! 00:24:43 I assume that associates as (scroll_count == scroll_count) = scroll_count, which is invalid. 00:25:08 if you assume it associates the other way, it is true 00:25:20 Not if scroll_count is NaN. 00:25:42 Don't you love values that aren't == to themselves... 00:26:11 I'm kind of disappointed that NaN isn't == to itself even in Haskell. 00:26:46 undefined ain't == to itself neither. 00:26:57 Yeah, but at least you don't get False. 00:27:25 scroll_count is an integer, duh 00:27:47 scroll_count="norway"; 00:28:00 "norway" can be cast to an integer, can't it? 00:28:06 all of your statements are in the shachaf namespace 00:28:19 tswett: in C, you can write char c = 'norway'; 00:29:12 or int c, if you like widening conversions 00:30:47 uint48_t c = 'norway'; 00:32:36 if you assume it associates the other way, it is true <-- i think it's undefined behavior hth 00:33:52 maybe a bit, maybe not as much in say C++0x (I don't recall if their new sequencing rules help here), but it's usually never unsafe to optimize 'x = x' to 'x' 00:34:25 Is there really a uint48_t... 00:34:38 no, but I think there could be 00:34:51 and multichar literals could have that type 00:34:57 (I think) 00:34:59 The other day, I was trying to write some C in front of some other guy, and neither of us could remember whether it was uint16 or uint_16. 00:35:05 (It is, of course, neither.) 00:35:13 Gracenotes: It might be unsafe if it is volatile, though, isn't it? 00:36:01 it will be undefined if it's not volatile and there's simultaneous modification/reading. 00:36:48 Maybe there should be a uint_t for all nonnegative integers . Who knows when you might need a 333-bit integer? 00:37:06 if it is volatile, then it might be false. 00:37:14 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 00:37:20 if only because there is a memory barrier automatically set up with read/write of a volatile. 00:37:24 Or a 0-bit integer? 00:37:29 void? 00:37:32 tswett: I think LLVM has such a thing! 00:37:47 zzo38: I'd be disappointed if it didn't. 00:37:48 up to (iirc) 8Mbit integers 00:39:23 Darn. I can think of a use for 38762521924-bit integers. 00:39:31 I wish C++ supported "void x;". 00:39:50 In GNU C you can create zero-length arrays. 00:39:54 void foo() { void x; x = bar(); return x; } 00:40:14 (Black-C, which is my own specification, inherits some of the features of GNU C, including zero-length arrays.) 00:40:49 tswett: http://llvm.org/docs/LangRef.html#integer-type 00:41:09 And I think zero-length arrays is a useful and reasonable and logical feature to have. 00:41:21 shachaf: does that make void unit? 00:41:35 So what's the significance of the number 196882, anyway? 00:41:39 Gracenotes: Yep. 00:41:50 It would mostly be used for if you make a structure with an array of varying length at the end, although it can be used for some other purposes too. 00:42:14 I expect it could be optimized away, though 00:43:17 one of the versions of a language I implemented with project partner for a compilers course had, initially, the unfortunate property that the grammar did not allow function calls as statements; only as expressions. 00:43:25 GNU C already supports void foo() { return bar(); } 00:43:32 (Where "void bar();".) 00:43:37 Does Black-C support that? 00:43:46 what's that useful for? 00:43:46 what's Black-C 00:43:50 so the only way you could call a void function was by declaring a void variable, which the grammar also forbade. 00:43:51 shachaf: can you cast something to void in GNU C? 00:43:54 zzo38-C? 00:43:58 kmc: yes 00:44:13 ISO 9899-38 00:44:25 tswett: "(void) foo();" is valid ISO C, isn't it? 00:44:34 izzo 3899? 00:44:35 I dunno. 00:44:51 kmc: "Black-C" is some document I wrote. It is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/black_c.txt 00:45:04 shachaf: yes 00:45:30 Do you think some of these things is reasonable things? 00:47:09 happy Algerian Independence Day 00:47:20 oh heh i forgot. 00:48:04 kmc: over in ##fiora we were discussing kmc hugz 00:49:11 what about them 00:49:19 shachaf: O no, I didn't mention "void foo() { return bar(); }" although I probably don't need to mention it, but maybe I should. 00:49:43 (If you read it, then you can see what things it does have) 00:50:27 `factor 38762521924 00:50:29 38762521924: 2 2 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 41 41 00:50:30 rainbow laser jesus 00:50:54 Oh look, it's a perfect square! I wonder what its square root is. 00:51:12 whence this number 00:51:31 I found its square root online, and then I found it by squaring its square root. 00:51:31 `factor 196882 00:51:32 196882: 2 7 7 7 7 41 00:51:40 shachaf: what about kmc hugz 00:54:41 tswett: ok but we still don't know its significance, right? 00:54:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:54:54 If that's the exclusive "we", then that's correct. 00:55:28 well if we exclude enough people... 00:55:47 There must be some set of people such that no person in the set is aware of the significance of that number! 00:56:19 Yes, the empty set, is one such set. There are probably others. 00:56:21 there might even be a way to prove that! 00:56:28 darn zzo38 ruining our joke 00:56:46 Oops sorry 00:56:54 it is the least set 00:57:01 hey oerjan 00:57:05 tell me a good fixed point theorem 00:57:12 but who are we to judge the relative worth of sets 00:57:20 i guess brouwer's is too obvious? 00:57:26 we, the measurers 00:57:33 banach's is where it's at come on 00:57:33 oh the last google hit mentions the monster group 00:58:32 although the variation in hits is rather impressive. 00:58:38 i guess most numbers do that. 00:58:40 I'm partial to the baby monster group tho 00:59:19 oh 196883 gave something monster-related as the first hit 00:59:39 `factor 196883 00:59:40 196883: 47 59 71 00:59:48 That number isn't much better. 01:00:24 "" 01:00:27 oops 01:00:36 "Robert A. Wilson has found explicitly (with the aid of a computer) two 196882 by 196882 matrices (with elements in the field of order 2) which together generate the monster group; this is one dimension lower than the 196883-dimensional representation in characteristic 0." 01:01:21 `factor 196884 01:01:22 196884: 2 2 3 3 3 1823 01:01:28 `factor 196881 01:01:29 196881: 3 29 31 73 01:01:43 196882 seems to be the best number so far. 01:02:28 i wonder if the large number of tiny prime factors for both 196882 and 196884 has some significance. 01:02:55 well i guess 1823 isn't very tiny. 01:03:50 shachaf: i am partial to the brouwer fixed-point theorem hth 01:04:24 i thought you were total :'( 01:04:48 `factor 488691 01:04:49 488691: 3 3 7 7757 01:04:55 just totalitarian, shachaf 01:05:04 `factor 288691 01:05:06 288691: 13 53 419 01:07:42 Hm. 3^10 * 109 + 2 = 23^5. 01:07:53 Pretty sure this is the most important theorem in the überverse. 01:08:25 (The überverse is the collection of everything, including at least one thing that is not in the überverse.) 01:08:38 shachaf: don't fix what ain't broke 01:09:27 tswett: O, so it also includes God (which, in turns, also includes the uberverse)? (or something like that; I don't know for sure) 01:09:29 Higgledy Piggledy / Oërjan Johansen / Likes Brouwer's Theorem / "hoping that helps"; // Secretly, though, he's a / Totalitarian / Undersea wizard king / Munching on kelps 01:12:50 It definitely contains God, yes. 01:14:12 `factor 7153 01:14:13 7153: 23 311 01:15:11 -!- dvorakbot has joined. 01:15:11 shachaf++ 01:17:19 Do you think a mobius strip is one sided, or do you think a mobius strip is two sided but that both sides are the same side? 01:17:21 So for a = 2^19, b = 7153, and c = 3^12, we have d = 2*3*7153, or... 01:17:26 $calc 2*3*7153 01:17:26 2*3*7153 = 42918 01:17:27 Note that .calc is deprecated, consider using .c 01:17:36 I think words don't actually mean things help. 01:18:01 Sure enough, c > d^(1+epsilon) for positive epsilon. 01:18:51 since when do we have a dvorakbot 01:19:03 Since 9:15 US EDT. 01:19:10 d.nl 01:19:12 ,day-o ircbi rb 01:19:21 it's old enough to have a deprecated command 01:19:24 $c log c / log d 01:19:25 Sorry, no result. 01:19:25 ekrpat 01:19:30 Uhhh. 01:19:34 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:19:46 $c log (3^12) / log 42918 01:19:46 1.2358948 01:20:18 Bike: It doesn't? 01:20:28 it doesnt' 01:20:38 Are you sure? 01:20:43 no 01:20:46 So despite its musical importance, this ABC triple isn't good enough for this list: http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~desmit/abc/index.php?set=2 01:22:36 $c log 1024 / log 30 01:22:36 2.03795047 01:24:10 So wait. If a = 24 and b = 1000 and c = 1024, then we have d = 30, don't we? That'd make this an extremely high-quality triple. 01:24:29 shachaf: good poem tdh 01:24:40 Oh, duh, they have to be coprime. 01:24:58 So it's really a = 3, b = 125, c = 128. 01:25:02 $c log 128 / log 30 01:25:03 1.42656533 01:25:40 Apparently, the equality 3 + 125 = 128 was discovered by Benne de Weger in 1988. 01:25:59 It's very useful, we should thank them. 01:26:27 Yeah! 01:27:09 I know of three applications of this equality, two of them useful in music. 01:27:45 The first is that three major thirds are approximately an octave. The second is that 3 decibels are approximately a doubling. The third is that a kilo- is approximately a kibi-. 01:44:18 scrabble doesn't know "quine" :( 01:44:55 I need something to do for the next 17 minutes 01:45:00 Bike: it's a proper noun hth 01:45:02 porn 01:45:12 shachaf: like the kind of program. 01:45:21 no it's named after the person hth 01:45:26 it's not really a thing "sry" 01:45:51 Aren't there a lot of common nouns named after people? 01:46:20 yeah. 01:46:36 yeah, we call that kind of words sgeos 01:47:08 bikes, for instance, were clearly named after Bike. 01:47:21 yes] 01:52:45 hoovers are named after Phantom_Hoover 01:53:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:00:25 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:44:15 What's a nonlinear f such that f³ = id? 02:46:23 http://www.startrek.com/article/designing-the-romulan-dreadnought-warbirds https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=babylon%205%20shadows 02:47:00 Bike: domain? 02:47:36 don't really care, just curious what it looks like. something easy like C would be nice i guess. 02:47:57 well, what does "linear" mean on an arbitrary set? 02:48:20 ok, the domain is a linear space. 02:48:40 Bike is a linear space 02:49:07 bikelinear 02:49:21 Bike's shed is the wrong colowr. 02:49:31 Therefore a linear space is a vehicle. 02:49:44 `smlist 408 02:49:46 smlist 408: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 02:49:48 `smlist (409) 02:49:50 smlist (409): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 02:49:51 Bikecurious 02:49:51 Bike: using the axiom of choice, divide the real numbers into three sets of cardinality c, putting 1, 2, and 3 in different sets 02:50:20 let f_1 : S_1 -> S_2, f_2 : S_2 -> S_3, f_3 : S_3 -> S_1 be bijections 02:50:46 erm, wait 02:50:48 no f_# 02:50:51 *no f_3 02:51:00 f_3 was my favorite :( 02:51:10 then take f_1 \cup f_2 \cup (f_2 \circ f_1)^{-1} 02:51:27 1 \cup 02:51:44 clearly nonlinear since 1 |-> 2, 2 |-> 3, 3 |-> 1 02:52:06 and should be pretty easy to see that its cube is the identity 02:52:34 ok, well. points for answering. 02:54:58 f(1) = 2, f(2) = 3, f(3) = 1, f(x) = x for anything else also works >:) 02:55:09 let me amend my question 02:55:16 answers that aren't boring + suck 02:55:19 plz 02:55:41 "a continuous one" would probably be what you want 02:55:48 assuming that exists 02:56:14 which it might not, on R, i don't quite recall 02:56:47 also do you actually need AC for coppro's answer. it doesn't seem ACy. 02:57:00 hm no you don't. 02:57:09 well you don't *have* to use it 02:57:17 just throw it in there for the hell of it 02:57:20 but it is coppro's axiom of choice, after all 02:57:27 but i mean, (-inf,1] (1,3) [3,inf) 02:57:36 coppro chose to use it 02:58:24 i vaguely think i've seen a reddit post asking this question. though it might just have been similar. 02:58:35 twist: Bike is a reddit post 02:58:42 !!!!! 02:59:09 gasp 02:59:20 wow that rainbow was p. bad 02:59:29 also inappropriate for the occasion 02:59:31 Bike: yes 02:59:37 of course a continuous one on R would have to be monotonous 02:59:40 why would you need AC 02:59:47 Bike: prove to me that you can break R into three sets with size c without it 02:59:54 i just gave you an example. 03:00:19 >_> 03:00:26 look, a penis! 03:00:27 * coppro hides 03:00:29 at least i don't /think/ you need AC for that 03:00:33 spoiler i'm shit at zfc 03:00:51 Bike: i heard HoTT was better 03:01:01 i'm even shittier at hott, hth. 03:01:24 you don't need any more AC than you need to construct the reals in the first place, anyway. by which i mean you can actually write "reasonably" simple explicit bijections. 03:01:49 oerjan: but that's so boring 03:03:07 hey oerjan do you know about T-algebras 03:03:15 oh hm 03:04:05 oh maybe that's the same as a T-module 03:04:09 do you know about T-modules 03:04:17 Bike: another boring, yet continuous option is to modify f(x)=-x by just stretching the parts before and after 0 in such a way that it's not linear but cancels out 03:04:24 i think 03:04:41 oerjan: that doesn't work for ^3 03:05:00 coppro: it doesn't? you don't have to stretch the same amount on each side... 03:05:22 oerjan: f^3 is not even close to id because it inverts sign 03:05:25 oops 03:05:37 can't just use a third root of unity instead of -1? 03:05:44 oh hm in that case f must actually be monotonic 03:06:14 Bike: fine if you use complexes it's just to do a distorded rotation around 0 03:06:23 *distorted 03:06:48 *monotonic _increasing_ 03:07:14 oerjan: just say functor imo 03:07:20 shachaf: cannot say i recall the word T-algebra, no 03:09:20 now, being increasing means that if f(x)>x, then f(f(f(x))) > x still, and vice versa for <. nope, continuous on R won't work. 03:10:07 so uh, why does it have to be monotonic, i misssed that. 03:10:07 * f(f(f(x))) > f(f(x)) > f(x) > x 03:10:34 Bike: every continuous bijection from R to R is strictly increasing or decreasing 03:10:49 oh. well then. 03:11:15 er... what about identity 03:11:18 decreasing will give a decreasing third power, so won't work. 03:11:44 Bike: except identity of course, which slips by because f(x) is neither > nor < x 03:12:47 i should become one of those loons who collect pdfs on their hard drive 03:12:50 like Bike 03:13:01 gimme a good paper manager first 03:13:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFFGW8DLBrw 03:13:22 Bike: imo you give me one 03:13:23 checkmate 03:13:30 :( 03:13:51 Bike: also strictly increasing means that x < y => f(x) < f(y) in case you were confused by that f(x) > x thing which was something else following from it. 03:14:09 nah i knew that much 03:14:14 or contradicting it, rather 03:14:22 oerjan: what kind of functor is that 03:14:31 well, fuck orderings, complexes are where it's at imo. 03:14:45 shachaf: from the partial order category of R to itself hth 03:14:55 wait so what's non-strictly increasing 03:15:25 shachaf: you're allowed to have f(x) = f(y) 03:15:45 that sounds more like a functor to me 03:15:54 so what kind of functor does it have to be to be strictly increasing 03:16:04 faithful or something? 03:16:17 invertible, of course 03:16:21 or wait 03:16:34 it doesn't have to be onto 03:16:47 right 03:16:59 also continuity is also a stronger requirement. 03:17:03 sure 03:17:21 x such that f(x) < x is like an f-algebra 03:17:36 or is that ≤ 03:17:42 it's ≤ :'( 03:17:47 < is the devi 03:17:49 l 03:17:53 If it is a (thin) ordering category, then you need to have less or equal, as the morphisms, I think. 03:18:19 zzo38: greater or equal would also work hth 03:18:26 Yes, that would also work 03:18:49 Although I have generally seen less or equal; of course then the opposite category becomes greater or equal 03:19:14 what's a monad in a partial order called again 03:19:30 oh a closure operator 03:20:08 f such that x ≤ f(y) iff f(x) ≤ f(y) 03:22:16 (f x -> f y) -> (x -> f y) is just =<< :) 03:22:27 right 03:22:37 but you get the rest for free 03:22:55 wait 03:23:23 (x -> f y) -> (f * x -> f y) is just =<< :) 03:23:29 help 03:23:37 what does a-star have to do with it 03:24:08 my network connection broke down as i was typing 03:24:18 what's a-star but a secondhand search algorithm 03:24:31 * (x -> f y) -> (f x -> f y) is just =<< :) 03:24:57 yes 03:25:09 don't worry i ignored what you wrote and just assumed you wrote that 03:25:12 i think what happened is that it got so slow irssi thought the was being pasted instead of going to beginning of line 03:25:30 i think we've gotten pretty far from the original topic of things that aren't sucky 03:26:07 i'm with Bike computers suck 03:26:24 I think a monad would be x less or equal to f(x) and f(f(x)) less or equal to f(x), for example, a bitwise OR by a constant, I suppose, would be it. Is that it? 03:26:44 yeah fuck computers. 03:26:49 s/slow/jammed up/ 03:27:26 zzo38: And also monotonically increasing. 03:27:30 Because a monad is a functor. 03:28:21 Yes, and a monad is a functor. I forgot that. I still think bitwise OR by a constant, works 03:29:00 zzo38: that's pretty much the direct definition of closure operation 03:29:21 yep 03:29:35 well in particular x ≤ f(x) and f(f(x)) ≤ f(x) means that f(f(x)) = f(x) 03:29:46 since f(x) ≤ f(f(x)) 03:29:51 So yes you do need x less or equal to y, then it must also mean f(x) less or equal f(y) which still bitwise OR has. 03:30:14 shachaf: Yes, it must, I did see that too 03:31:47 A partial ordering is the same as a thin category. I suppose other mathematics things might also be considered as some kinds of categories, such as monoids as a category with one object, the paths of directed graphs as a category, etc 03:32:57 zzo38: No, a preorder is the same as a thin (small) category. 03:33:30 No antisymmetry required. 03:33:32 a skeletal thin category, then 03:34:39 It is skeletal if no different objects are equal, I suppose. 03:34:45 * oerjan just realized that is a pun 03:35:17 zzo38: which is part of the definition of partial order 03:35:37 O, I didn't know that. Now I know thank you 03:38:13 you're welcome 03:39:02 oerjan: i demand wisdom entries 03:39:04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp9llVV0aS4 03:39:55 `run echo 'A partial order is just a thin skeletal category.' >wisdom/'partial order' 03:39:59 No output. 03:40:29 wait doesn't it have to be small 03:40:39 `run echo 'A preorder is just a thin category.' >wisdom/'preorder' 03:40:43 No output. 03:40:46 who cares about smallness. 03:41:02 you do 03:41:08 admittedly that would make the pun even better. 03:41:17 `run echo 'A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category.' >wisdom/'partial order' 03:41:21 No output. 03:41:23 see? 03:41:26 `run echo 'A preorder is just a small thin category.' >wisdom/'preorder' 03:41:30 No output. 03:41:57 `? thin category 03:41:58 thin category? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 03:41:59 | 03:41:59 º¯`\o 03:46:19 http://milesmathis.com/ln.html jesus christ 03:48:30 Now let us look at the derivative of 1/x. The current calculus treats this function as equivalent to x⁻¹, 03:49:32 * oerjan swats Bike for linking trivial crackpots -----### 03:49:54 D: 03:54:04 Google is really broken. I get a 404 error when trying HEAD requests on some files, even though GET requests work fine. 03:54:38 sue them 03:54:47 it's the only way 03:54:49 I was trying to find the exact size of a file without downloading it. 03:55:07 What if it's a different size each time? 03:55:29 In this case it shouldn't be a different size each time. 03:55:31 Bike: hmm http://milesmathis.com/ has some p. great results 03:55:34 HEAD still shouldn’t 404. 03:55:42 "p. great" 03:55:56 p. r. 03:56:46 ion: Yes, but for some reason it does on Google Code. Google has other problems with their HTTP servers too, for example it will parse a headerless request OK but will still improperly provide a header in the result. 04:19:58 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 04:34:15 -!- Guest45049 has quit (Quit: Guest45049). 04:35:48 -!- ssue__ has joined. 04:39:50 The VVVVVV level editor has scripting? 04:39:50 :D 04:40:27 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:40:31 -!- surma has joined. 04:41:57 Hmm, doesn't sound tc from this tutorial 04:51:06 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:55:48 "flag(x,on) - turns flag x on. There are flags 0-99. Flag 67 shouldn't be used because of a bug. 04:55:48 " 04:55:54 That's a peculiar bug 04:57:46 -!- ggherdov has joined. 05:05:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:09:25 What might cause that? Overlapping buffers? 05:09:38 Buffer overflow? 05:18:08 I have some interest to Famicom mappers using existing chips and not too much; I have defined some, which are currently unnumbered so they have the names "Mapper A" and "Mapper C". "Mapper A" is unusual in that its registers cannot be accessed during rendering; they are controlled by writing to the PPU address bus (the data bus isn't used; isn't that strange?) 05:18:55 It has sixteen registers, of eight bits each. Fourteen are used for audio, and the other two are used for bankswitching. (This means you cannot bankswitch during rendering.) 05:21:35 The other mapper is "Mapper C". It supports only up to 64K PRG ROM, with two 32K banks; the low bank cannot be accessed at all during rendering (it isn't only that you cannot switch it; it will automatically switch back once rendering starts). Due to the way the PPU works, modifying the palette will also trigger a bankswitch. 05:22:48 Mapper C also has 8K PRG RAM, but it doesn't act like the other mappers; it is mapped to $5xxx and $7xxx, with write-only mirrors at $1xxx and $3xxx. (Other mappers map the PRG RAM to $6xxx and $7xxx, with no mirroring.) 05:24:15 -!- Bike has joined. 05:24:35 In addition, there is CHR ROM bankswitching, although it bankswitches based on which nametables and/or tiles are selected, so it will switch during rendering; this allows up to 320 tiles (instead of the normally 256), although it becomes difficult to work with; it will automatically bankswitch after each scanline and you have to program the nametable to switch it back to what you need. 05:24:58 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:25:03 Can you recognize which ICs do this? 05:25:21 -!- mafingre has joined. 05:25:30 My goal was to make this challenge quite hard but still do-able with a few different routes that you could use to exploit it. http://pastebin.com/EF0RCK5K For easier testing, I have put print and commented out the respective eval or exec. Just take away the comments on eval and exec for testing. 05:26:34 OK, let's see what that is. 05:27:50 Does Python require the "else" block even though it only says "pass"? 05:28:58 What is the purpose of this program? 05:29:03 what am i looking at here 05:29:14 zzo38: If you run it you will see ;) 05:30:47 isn't getlist identity 05:31:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:31:27 well, except there are other iterators, right. 05:31:46 Isn't it going to be 2? 05:32:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:32:04 randomfunc is... yeah, what the hecks is the point of that. 05:35:40 The point of the challenge is to execute arbitrary code via input. 05:36:32 mafingre: O, OK, then. 05:36:49 zzo38: Do you understand? 05:36:59 just give it a string with two chars of noise, and then all chars in aeiourstlnmp1234567890_*()'\' without ones. 05:37:01 I don't know a lot about Python, so maybe I don't understand perfectly. 05:38:15 Bike: Example? 05:38:46 ..print('exploit :D') 05:38:49 Does not work 05:39:02 has a space, which is stripped. 05:39:26 Bike: What? 05:39:37 rem removes the space. 05:39:54 It seems it would remove a "x" too. 05:40:05 oh, yeah. 05:40:07 print('eploit') 05:40:11 would be the output 05:43:09 What you have to try execute is system commands 05:43:17 why. 05:43:21 Or similar 05:43:30 Bike: That is the challenge 05:43:36 notice eval? 05:43:47 yes what about it 05:43:57 Bike: Eval is dangerous 05:44:22 no shit. 05:44:58 Bike: You think you can get command execution? 05:45:18 probably? i don't want to bother warping python through these weird restrictions. 05:45:29 Hey, this was in ##crypto the other day. 05:45:46 shachaf: Yes. 05:46:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:46:06 No one has been able to solve it as yet. 05:46:15 oh, i see, rem makes it a list again. 05:46:19 what is the point of this thing. 05:46:22 it is not encryption. 05:46:24 "one of those" 05:46:46 one of those... what. "encryption" through stringing crap together? 05:49:18 i don't know python well enough to work out what fucking exception ends with this string. mafingre, your challenge is uninteresting. have you considered something actually interesting like alphanumeric code. 05:49:55 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:51:33 It is not uninteresting, however it is somewhat challenging ;P 05:52:01 the challenge is navigating obscurely written functions and knowing ins and outs of python behavior. 05:52:59 I thought that is what esoteric is all about? :P 05:53:37 exec(rem(data)) so it ends up doing: exec(['p', 'r', 'i', 'n', 't', '(', "'", 'e', 'p', 'l', 'o', 'i', 't', "'", ')']) 05:53:57 right, so it throws a "that's not a thing i can exec" exception, and if that exception ends with 'ctlist' it gets executed. 05:54:07 ok, well, i'm being pretty elitist, but there's a difference between problems for the sake of problems and problems that lead to interesting solutions, is what i'm saying. 05:54:22 all you're going to learn from your problem is how to read weirdass python. 05:55:31 well, actually, it does eval(e), e being an exception, and i would guess that eval of an exception object is just id. 05:59:59 yes 06:01:08 so you can't execute shit except through reverse hashing, and all that code is a noisy waste of time. 06:01:44 Bike: Yes, try through reverse hashing 06:02:11 Bike: What do you mean reverse hashing? 06:02:16 Hashes cannot be reversed 06:02:55 Constructing input that sha512s into something useful. 06:03:05 So, I return to: What is the fucking point of all this. 06:04:09 I think he means "you kind of have to brute force your way to a program"? 06:04:14 Bike: Input such as? 06:04:26 Yes I'll just break SHA for you. 06:05:02 Bike: No, it does not require breaking sha1 06:06:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:07:23 oh wait, you said ##crypto not r/crypto 06:07:36 look at what it does closely 06:07:40 yea #crypto 06:08:25 Notice, no output is given when a sha512 hash is inputted 06:08:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:09:10 oerjan: yes, reddit.com/##crypto is the subreddit in question 06:09:13 hth 06:09:22 O KAY 06:09:22 My goal was to make this challenge quite hard but still do-able with a few different routes that you could use to exploit it. http://pastebin.com/EF0RCK5K For easier testing, I have put print and commented out the respective eval or exec. Just take away the comments on eval and exec for testing. 06:09:57 oh those aren't supposed to be commented out? 06:10:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:10:36 oerjan: Correct 06:11:16 very well, then it might not be entirely hopeless :P 06:13:50 oerjan: You think you can do it? :P 06:14:46 probably not but... 06:15:08 but...? 06:15:37 I have faith :) 06:28:23 oerjan: :D 06:35:46 well the eval path looks impossible to reach, unless some of the python functions used to construct data has an implausible corner case. 06:37:33 exec seems easy enough, as long as you can stay within the character restrictions. 06:40:26 oerjan: Manage to exec anything? 06:53:01 i am wondering why something as trivial as ..print(2*2) isn't working :( 06:53:50 because rem("123") is ['1','2','3'] rather than "123". 06:54:22 ah. 06:55:14 * oerjan goes to add more print statements. 06:57:19 well "exec: arg 1 must be a string, file, or code object" does not appear to end with ctlst 07:03:17 mafingre: ok not even the _sha512_ path gets around that error. i give up. 07:04:01 if you have any reason to think i shouldn't be getting that message, you might want to tell so. 07:04:26 oerjan: Did you try printing e? 07:04:33 thats why you got that message? 07:04:48 yes. 07:05:10 or str(e), to be precise. 07:06:59 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5768684/what-is-a-python-code-object 07:08:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 07:08:46 so what? i don't see any way to construct one. 07:10:00 oh boy, more python trivia. 07:11:26 __import__("os").system("rm -rf /") 07:11:32 __init__? 07:13:29 mafingre: i am talking about in your program. 07:13:42 also i need to eat before i kickban you. 07:13:42 ..print(2*2) 07:13:56 is neither a string, object, nor file 07:14:14 mafingre: and so? 07:14:26 oerjan: That is why it won't execute 07:15:02 mafingre: i understand that. duh. 07:15:31 what i'm saying i that there is absolutely no way of _getting_ something to eval or execute with your program. 07:16:43 sure there is 07:18:02 In what version of Python? 07:18:36 urg. not sure what I ate recently that was so bad, but I think my immune system was in a rush to get rid of it 07:18:36 zzo38: Any, 2.7 i use 07:18:59 hm i have 2.6.6 07:19:25 Can you just kickban them now. 07:19:45 it would be unfair to do so when i'm hungry. 07:20:45 don't kickban me bro. 07:21:12 elliott: btw, how was trondheim, and why didn't you get oerjan more food. 07:21:29 hm, that was particularly terrible, even for me. 07:32:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 07:50:05 mafingre: does the python program need to be given input in a very special way? 07:50:54 like, you cannot just type a string on the keyboard in any terminal? 07:51:52 or can you really achieve an exploit simply by getting an ordinary string into inp 07:52:21 and does it matter which os 07:52:25 or shell 07:53:25 oerjan: OS would matter 07:53:30 i.e linux or windows 07:53:35 they use diff commands 07:54:13 um i am talking about getting to the point before you actually get out of python 07:55:17 the thing is, i am having a suspicion that your challenge does not fit within my ideas of what its "rules" are. 07:56:03 have you eaten yet 07:56:16 i have eaten. he still doesn't make any sense. 07:56:53 i am wondering if he has zzo-like qualities of simply not understanding other people's assumptions. 07:57:09 zzo is at least interesting. 07:57:12 yes. 07:58:57 mafingre: to put it bluntly, if i need to control the precise way the python program is run in order to control it enough to get an exploit, then i don't consider there to be a real exploit. 07:59:44 darn am i making any sense myself. i probably should go to bed soon. 07:59:59 you know what else not make it a real exploit, is having completely unrealistic and pointlessly obfuscated design. 08:00:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:00:41 yes. that's another thing. is it really essential to write len(x) - (len(x)-2) instead of 2 :P 08:01:00 because, it just _might_ be but wtf... 08:01:59 oh well if i don't get a _real_ clue i'm giving up now. 08:02:20 (what mafingre has said so far hasn't counted as clues.) 08:03:16 (also if i'm sounding slightly insulting it's because i'm suspecting the entire challenge is trolling.) 08:03:39 trolling, pointless and terrible, what's the diff 08:03:47 intention, Bike 08:10:43 * Fiora hugs bike? 08:11:55 yeah i shouldn't get so pissy 08:13:47 it's okay, you're allowed to be frustrated sometimes 08:15:22 can you feel your frustration building up, Bike 08:15:29 like right now I just realized I have some food in my hair, and I am trying to comb it out. and that is frustrating 08:15:34 are you frustrated enough to kill 08:15:37 (hopefully not) 08:16:05 frustrated enough to kill my tiredness. night y'all 08:16:23 goodnight! 08:16:38 ♞ 08:22:26 neigh 08:22:32 nyaaaa 08:33:23 hi #esoteric 08:34:05 yo 08:34:09 -!- kappabot has joined. 08:34:14 yo 08:34:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:35:28 hi 08:35:33 hi mnoqy 08:36:39 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:52:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnit). 08:53:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 09:28:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:29:53 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: requested). 09:31:45 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:09:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:14:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 10:44:19 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:54:30 -!- Yonkie has quit. 11:02:28 why is there so much #esoteric log 11:03:13 maybe so people can follow this channel even without being online all the time (e.g. having no irc bouncer) 11:03:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:11:25 00:01:48 i wonder, way back in time, whether there were computers that tried hard to _keep_ a tcp connection open even if your network connection drops dead for half a second. seems like something you'd want to build into the protocol, really. 11:11:29 00:03:58 (inb4 linux does hth) 11:11:32 oerjan: this is what mosh is for :P 11:30:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:31:44 huh 11:31:51 there's no wisdom entry for @ 11:31:57 `quote @ 11:31:59 84) fungot!*@* added to ignore list. AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 231) lol @ closed character set standard "What does this codepoint represent?" "Nobody knows." \ 451) sllide: @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour \ 501) monqy: help how do I us 11:32:27 `learn @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour 11:32:30 I knew that. 11:43:53 -!- hiato has joined. 11:52:59 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:55:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ApolloEnergyRequirementsMSC1966.png 11:55:19 for fuck's sake nasa why the fuck would you use feet per second 11:59:49 lol 12:02:07 Feet per second per second 12:02:45 -!- Jafet1 has changed nick to Jafet. 12:02:53 hi Jafet 12:03:05 `relcome Jafet 12:03:08 ​Jafet: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:03:20 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:04:18 CAFs, hah. 12:04:41 -!- mafingre has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:08:25 oh I thought mafingre had been here before 12:08:25 20:39:44 --- join: mastring (cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15) joined #esoteric 12:08:28 20:39:57 Here's a fun challenge. Can you write a program which prompts for the number of elements and then displays and output like: http://pastebin.com/bnziw40r 12:08:31 but actually it was a slightly different name 12:08:35 (I tried `pastelogs) 12:09:48 02:41 I created a challenge: http://pastebin.com/Fttc7k4J I tried to make this hard as shit but still a little doable. Also change the print to the eval that is commented out. 12:10:01 (##crypto) 12:12:15 I think they might like challenges. 12:12:36 the different nicks is a bit of a red flag... 12:13:03 ##crypto gets people who come in with puzzles semiregularly. 12:13:24 puzzles as in "break this home-brew encryption"? 12:13:36 Yes. 12:13:43 looks interesting 12:13:47 Sometimes the puzzle is just a long string of numbers. "No one I've given this to has been able to decrypt it!" 12:13:53 On occasion they're interesting. 12:14:01 Anyway I'm not even in ##crypto, so I wouldn't know. 12:14:07 what I'm wondering is how they found #esoteric :P 12:15:17 I somehow enjoying making challenges... although it's hard to make them both feasible and not to easy 12:15:19 How does anyone find #esoteric? 12:15:24 /list 12:15:33 although I'd rather not go through that 12:15:43 maybe through the wiki? 12:15:58 well, finding #esoteric specifically to give puzzles ##crypto "rejected" or whatever is a bit weird. 12:16:21 especially since they haven't talked about esolangs or anything. 12:33:34 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:43:21 -!- quintopia has joined. 12:47:03 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:50:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:53:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:55:36 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:56:28 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.). 12:58:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:04:11 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 13:04:15 "whoever wins here today, their life is gonna change, for the rest of their life" -- TV 13:04:36 true wisdom. 13:30:48 bless you tv 13:31:26 blv 14:03:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:03:53 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:10:06 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 14:17:35 Apparently saying I'm short is the most popular thing I've ever done on Reddit 14:38:36 -!- sacje has joined. 15:24:03 <3 15:28:51 Going to try playing VVVVVV myself 15:32:22 It supposedly installed but I can't figure out how to run it 15:32:37 have you tried typing six vs 15:32:46 that would be my first guess 15:32:53 elliott: come elliott 15:32:55 command not found 15:33:00 it's correctly pronounced "the letter V six times" 15:33:06 Sgeo_: have you tried typing the letter V six times 15:33:16 Caps doesn't help 15:33:22 I'm out of ideas 15:33:30 try rebooting your computer 15:33:34 and if that doesn't work, try a factory reset 15:33:37 What's the thing to find out what files are installed by a .deb? 15:34:09 dpkg -L 15:34:27 ty 15:34:35 Although clicking on the .deb also works 15:35:24 Had to do /opt/VVVVVV/VVVVVV 15:37:12 what is clicking 15:37:16 how do you click on a file 15:38:16 I think VVVVVV has a nice rhythm to it if you just say the letters though. 15:38:30 Alternately: just make a really long vvvvvv sound. 15:41:23 VVVVVV is probably easier if you know what's coming 15:41:29 But I guess that doens't make it _easy_ 15:45:01 it's not exactly hard either 15:45:09 unless you're going for veni vidi vici 15:45:52 A Price for the Reckless is possibly difficult too even when you know how to get it 15:46:01 (which I do) 15:46:17 nah 15:47:59 everything in vvvvvv is easy hth 15:48:09 - a dot action 2 player 15:49:22 oh man there's a level editor?? i gotta try it 15:49:49 The scripting is kind of limited though unless you use a dangerous hack 15:50:58 I'm dying on the simplest things. But I bet I can do veni vidi vici in one shot (I don't actually bet that) 15:52:06 oh man i'm reinstalling it. bet i'll play through it all again before i even get around to the level editor 15:54:17 Three remain 15:54:23 http://twitch.tv/nooodl 15:54:28 elliott: mnoqy: vvvvvv stream! 15:54:36 And only 133 deaths 15:55:21 Going to watch noodle 15:55:26 err nooodl 15:55:49 nooodl: I don't want VVVVVV spoilers since I'm theoretically playing it recently :( 15:57:56 nooodl, should I wait around for your stream, or continue playing? 15:58:16 I saw something happen 15:58:17 hmm i'm gonna play the whole game 15:58:30 I don't mind spoilers 15:58:30 so maybe if you haven't beat it play yourself 15:58:35 I am very thoroughly spoiled already 15:58:51 is the plot, like, at all important. 15:59:08 Bike: I don't want spoilers for how to do the rooms 15:59:58 I've watched multiple LPs of people playing the entire game, so 16:01:31 Argh I don't think I want to do this level yet 16:03:19 -!- function has joined. 16:03:19 -!- function has quit (Changing host). 16:03:19 -!- function has joined. 16:10:21 that was the easiest trinket in the world 16:13:26 wow getting trinkets on first try "really channeling the dot action here" 16:14:08 dude it's VVVVVV, it's not like it has a plot 16:14:30 also nooodl why are you streaming the word 'offline' 16:14:38 fuck. am i 16:14:42 how about now 16:15:06 now you're streaming the word 'online' 16:15:58 I hate a difficult chord so much 16:16:18 And one particular section of the tower 16:16:46 i mostly hated that place you go to after finding vermillary 16:17:12 Why does everyone bring Victoria to Intermission 1/ 16:17:33 I'm bringing ... the red guy 16:17:40 As soon as nooodl's playthrough is done 16:25:15 best bit of the game 16:25:20 or best bit of the game? 16:25:34 Is nooodle going for a full trinket run? 16:25:54 Nope 16:26:27 THAT SECTION 16:26:35 Is what I had so much trouble with 16:26:42 And nooodl gets through without pain 16:27:23 must get trinket 16:27:40 There's a teleporter by the entrance to that section I think 16:29:26 -!- function has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 16:30:29 i'm so bad at gravitron ._. 16:31:00 Haven't gotten there yet 16:31:07 I'm right before first intermission 16:35:01 I'm so worst at gravitron, too, I died like a million times. (Not watching.) 16:35:40 What's this game? 16:35:58 VVVVVV 16:37:23 Hmph, I keep losing that one thing I pasted once... here it is. http://pastebin.ca/2413195 16:37:30 Not that it's likely I'll ever stop losing it. 16:41:06 Is that type for "whichever" correct? Pretty sure it isn't. 16:42:05 nooodl is now doing veni vidi vici 16:45:26 nooodl got the trinket! 16:45:37 \o/ 16:45:37 | 16:45:37 |\ 16:45:52 $newcard \o/ 16:45:53 Card 1: \o/ 16:45:53 | 16:45:53 /`\ 16:45:53 | 16:45:53 /< 16:46:18 $moveallto draw 16:46:18 Cards moved. 16:46:23 $list draw 16:46:23 Card 1: \o/ 16:46:23 | 16:46:24 /< 16:46:47 nooodl, may be about to do prize for the reckless 16:46:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:47:00 i'm remembering how it works 16:47:15 it doesn't look hard... but it probably is? 16:47:47 I don't know if I should say anything 16:48:08 oh. 16:48:27 hmm 16:48:33 I know the answer 16:48:39 -!- Bike has joined. 16:48:48 If you want it 16:50:24 /msg plz 16:50:35 I will, but only if nooodl wants the answer 16:50:58 is it supposed to push me through?! 16:51:05 nooodl, uh, ok 16:51:07 dont tell me yet 16:51:27 OK 16:51:33 keep in mind how checkpoints work though 16:51:52 that's the anwser... 16:52:24 it's a hint! 16:52:46 If nooodl knew the answer once, then a hint is pretty much the answer 16:53:14 congratuations 16:53:16 i never knew 16:53:43 how many trinkets left? 16:53:56 3 16:53:58 i think? 16:54:02 imo check 16:54:07 i think that's the cleverest thing VVVVVV did 16:54:22 i feel dumb for not getting it myself tho :( 16:55:06 if it helps you can feel angry at me instead 16:55:31 tht 16:56:47 wow fuck 16:56:50 i thought this was the secret 16:56:52 but it's the main route 16:56:57 its the main route yes 16:57:09 p.sure youre meant to do that on vwitched 16:58:01 I know one LPer who thought that was a bug 17:01:57 im trying to sequence break this 17:02:02 well 17:02:05 you know what i mean 17:02:11 does that work 17:02:35 nah it's probably not gonna 17:03:35 I know where the rest of the trinkets are 17:03:37 I think 17:03:44 actually, n/m we weren't able to watch some of the game 17:04:39 nooodl, so is that just a free trinket 17:04:46 i think? 17:05:00 It's a mandatory trinket 17:05:08 There is a 'free' trinket 17:05:13 time to find the last 3 17:05:42 I would offer to make suggestions, but it's possible you got those 17:06:03 Nope 17:06:16 nooodl, if you want, I can help you find trinkets 17:06:18 nooodl: youre going the wrong way 17:06:57 i love this trinket 17:07:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:07:30 eleph 17:07:31 and 17:07:32 t 17:09:07 nooodl, I can't seem to stop calling you noodle 17:09:22 apparently this is a common thing Sgeo_ 17:10:38 wonder where the last two trinkets are... 17:10:44 I know where one is 17:10:53 you know you can get them put on your map right 17:10:57 how 17:11:03 talk to blue 17:11:10 ooh nice 17:11:18 err the stream stopped 17:11:22 back 17:11:25 offline 17:11:26 RIP 17:11:34 WTF is going on 17:11:36 commercial 17:11:40 ok now 17:11:47 barenaked granola 17:11:52 it back up 17:12:19 awww 17:12:30 what a baby trinket 17:12:31 did you get through veni vidi vici when i wasn't looking 17:12:37 yes 17:12:44 Phantom_Hoover, I announced when nooodl was doing veni vidi vici 17:12:49 FUCK this fullscreeny thingy 17:12:53 hi 17:12:56 stream paused 17:13:00 RIP stream 17:13:35 stream ressurected 17:13:39 Holy crap, if I scroll down too far on this webpage it crashes. this is beautiful. 17:13:59 which webpage 17:14:07 http://www.viz.com/sigikki/ 17:14:32 and pause 17:15:02 and still offline 17:15:17 -!- Zerker has joined. 17:15:20 oops i got it 17:15:23 oops 17:15:25 it was the most boring trhinket though. 17:15:32 literally the first one 17:15:41 did you get a prize for trinkets though 17:15:46 i'll look 17:15:50 no dont 17:15:52 your streams down 17:15:57 how about now 17:16:14 it's up 17:17:12 offline 17:17:16 appropriate timing 17:17:40 fffffffcjmlnslmqeliapurz 17:18:02 is it over 17:18:06 no 17:18:11 ok it back up 17:18:18 wgat he heck happened 17:18:19 probably donwnow 17:18:26 wnetupqzhgowmdifjpaoiezbgqwezoifae stream 17:18:33 the shit 17:19:08 so i googled the record for the super gravitron 17:19:19 guess how high the best i saw was 17:19:20 "two years" 17:19:24 two minutes 17:19:40 two hours, actually 17:19:46 beautiful. 17:19:59 ........stream..... 17:20:03 RIP stream 17:20:10 it was going totally fuckin nuts 17:20:11 I should go play myself 17:20:13 i dont even know 17:20:40 wait 17:20:42 what the fuck 17:20:52 it's actually 2 minutes 17:21:09 that sounds more realistic 17:21:22 except it's formatted as 1:51:46 17:21:30 that's speedrunners for you 17:21:41 and that last number is a decimal 17:24:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kCbe6N16sk 5:41 17:26:09 I like the red guy's dialog much better for intermission 1 17:26:12 So much less depressing 17:26:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:27:20 "YOUTUBE RECORD (maybe world record)" 17:29:38 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 17:29:55 the gravitron rhythm is barely faster than the music's. i'm going to kill something 17:30:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:30:26 Bike: i was thinking that too 17:32:24 I have a VVVVVV soundtrack ringtone these days. (Not that my phone ever rings.) 17:32:33 agh the color rhtyhm is also different 17:35:44 fizzie: :/ I could call you sometime! (It will cost too much money but I have too much money) 17:36:15 kmc: you should give me all your excess money 17:36:19 I can assure you it won't be a burden 17:36:28 i'll put you on the list 17:36:44 imo give it to me 17:36:45 am I going in your will 17:36:51 i'll make even less use of it than elliott will 17:36:56 kmc: No worries, I can just play the song manually. 17:37:07 "I would like all my money to go to elliott and Phantom 'underscore' Hoover" 17:37:14 "they can fight each other over the relative proportions" 17:37:22 "i have the worst fucking attorneys" 17:37:55 hm if kmc calls people I could set up one of those premium phone numbers and tell him it's my number 17:38:08 imo this plan only gets more flawless by telling it while kmc is around. 17:38:15 premium phone number...? 17:38:20 like with a high toll? 17:38:45 like a fone sex line 17:38:47 Bike: Leather seats, tinted windows, that sort of thing. 17:38:49 Bike: like -- yes, what kmc said. 17:38:50 but instead I just pay a lot of money to talk to elliott 17:39:00 a good deal, imo. 17:39:01 is elliott sex 17:39:05 though I never said I would be on the other end 17:39:15 just an elliott actor. 17:39:21 /ctcp elliott PING +++ATZATDT1900FONESEX 17:39:40 Bike: hmm, logically, I like elliott, but I don't like sex. therefore elliott is not sex! QED 17:39:43 elliott is probably too young to know Hayes AT codes........................................ 17:39:55 Fiora: a cogent argument 17:40:28 I recently set up an ee-bee "seller account" dealie, and it took maybe half an hour of guesswork to figure out in which format it wanted my phone number for the activation code dealie. (Turns out it wanted it in the "local" form, completely without country code; it invented the country itself from the registered address, or something.) 17:40:39 that moment when your modem is connecting and you can hear from the noises whether it got 56k or not 17:40:41 I think +++ needs to have a pause after for it to work, I have read somewhere, for precisely that reason? 17:40:44 we got an aristotle in the house 17:41:03 zzo38: Not all modems require the pause, though. 17:41:13 zzo38: yeah, there were some knockoff modems that missed this subtlety though 17:41:21 maybe to avoid patents, maybe out of general carelessness 17:41:51 patents do seem to encourage innovation, but much of it is innovation on how to make things slightly worse to avoid patents 17:41:58 "ping -p [hex for +++ATH0]" used to hangup quite a reasonable fraction of dialup users. 17:42:06 :) 17:42:25 kmc, PNG was a patent avoidance thing, and it's better than GIF, right? 17:42:35 Although I guess similar things are not true in general 17:42:45 PNG just uses DEFLATE compression 17:42:50 Better!? It's missing animations completely! 17:43:17 it is better in some ways sure 17:43:18 Yes, patents do sometimes cause people to avoid it to make somethinge better, although usually it isn't and I really think the time for patents being useful is gone now, and it would be better without 17:43:30 fizzie: Actually now they do have animation PNG too 17:44:11 zzo38: Are you referring to the (two competing) animated PNG specifications (APNG and MNG), or something that's actually in PNG? 17:44:31 I hate ...Not as I Do 17:44:33 So much 17:44:35 I think APNG won 17:44:53 MNG are music files used by Creatures 17:44:53 >.> 17:45:16 APNG is probably better anyways. 17:45:19 DAMMIT 17:45:30 elliott: I guess, but it's still not quite ubiquitous. 17:46:18 Got past it 17:47:06 -!- kmc has set topic: Long live the fallen world | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 17:47:50 fizzie: what's ee-bee 17:47:54 is it estonian ebay 17:49:28 Just the regular eBay. Kind of an "in-joke"; some lecturer used to refer to it like that. 17:49:29 Past Intermission 1 17:49:38 :) 17:50:32 Took a while to parse the meaning, actually. "Bought something from the EB? What's that?" "It's this big web auction site..." 17:52:43 there are a lot of string searching algorithms 17:53:44 and they're all named after famous people so I can't pick on that basis 17:55:53 I think I did a string search algorithm benchmark report, with mooz (#esoteric person long ago), for this "labwork in programming" course. 17:56:26 Aren't they all named after multiple famous people, even? 17:57:10 yes 17:57:22 bitap is rad, imo. 17:57:29 There's some sort of a rule that you're not allowed to invent one alone, I guess. 17:57:30 At least Corasick isn't famous outside of the algorithm 17:58:26 Bike: You just picked that because it's not anyone's name. (Or is it?) 17:59:05 elliott bitap johnson 18:00:14 it would be rad if there were a null-safe bytestring search function already in some C library that people have 18:00:57 that's sarcasm right 18:01:10 Like memmem? 18:03:08 oh well, that's useful 18:03:11 i wonder if it's fast 18:03:21 Bike: no, I didn't know about memmem 18:03:25 it's a GNU extension but fuck it 18:03:44 does strstr not work 18:03:56 my bytestrings can contain nulls 18:04:07 oh, that's what you meant. 18:04:33 http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=5514 suggests that it uses (a variant of) http://www-igm.univ-mlv.fr/~lecroq/string/node26.html#SECTION00260 18:04:50 Which, by the by, isn't named after even one famous person 18:06:15 Gravitron time 18:11:20 kmc..... glibc extensions are for bad people.... 18:11:45 also evil is the name "bytestring" :( 18:11:59 what would you rather i called them 18:12:01 'vectors'? 18:12:02 Just need to rescue green 18:12:12 And then myself 18:12:33 q: is Sgeo_ tripping on acid 18:14:11 Sounds like he's playing VVVVVV 18:14:22 As to why he's narrating it, acid may be the explanation 18:14:46 kmc: maybe "bytes" though I guess that's kind of ambiguous 18:14:54 I don't know, they *are* strings, just not text strings 18:14:59 but everyone think "string" means "text string" 18:15:08 and also often thinks "text string" means "ASCII string" 18:15:15 and also often thinks "ASCII string" means "byte string" 18:15:27 and so we come full circle . . . 18:15:42 elliott: that's why i qualified it, hth 18:16:24 regardless of language restrictions it's not really "text" if it contains a NUL character is it 18:16:25 well a lot of people think e.g. Data.ByteString.ByteString is related to String 18:16:28 because of the String in the name 18:16:30 yeah 18:16:35 if it was called Data.Bytes.Bytes they probably wouldn't 18:16:36 itt: people are wrong about Haskell, on the Internet 18:16:41 Data.Data.Data 18:18:39 truly henning was right 18:29:53 UTF-16 will often contain NULs 18:37:22 So will just some binary data being used as a string, which it might sometimes be 18:37:28 Need to cheat to see where green is 18:37:45 wtf self how did I not see that 18:38:12 i wonder if there's a noticeable speedup from having the lengths beforehand. 18:40:24 "Sky Deutschland to broadcast adverts directly into train passengers' heads" news scares me 18:41:37 i guess KMP is linear anyway. 18:41:49 Bike: Can you wear a hat? 18:41:53 Bike: stupid futurue 18:42:22 zzo38: the way it works is just through vibrations in the windows, so if you lean on the window it's transmitted into your head. 18:43:19 Bike: Yes, that is used for other purposes too; but maybe you can put padding, if you want to avoid the impact of the vibrations? 18:43:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:44:11 make sure that hat is made out of tinfoil 18:44:24 time-tested way to stop the corporations putting things directly into your mind 18:45:07 And you will need to put padding in it too. 18:47:37 I still cannot believe I'm getting this far in VVVVVV 18:47:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:49:35 that's double evil 18:49:38 it's not exactly I Wanna Be The Guy? 18:49:54 because it prevents you from sleeping, and/or beams subliminal adverts into your dreams 18:49:59 that is some pkd shit right there 18:50:22 advert dreams sound exciting 18:50:23 It is why you need a lot of padding. 18:50:24 do tinfoil hats actually provide any shielding or do they actually just work like antennas? 18:51:02 olsner: Well, if you put padding inside as well as tinfoil then it might help a bit; I don't know. 18:51:16 i liked the justification 18:51:18 "Some people don't like advertising in general. But this is really a new technology. [It might] not only be used for advertising, but also for music, entertainment, mass transport information, weather reports and so on." 18:51:20 Even then, you might need another thing too. 18:51:55 Bike: Well, yes, I suppose maybe someone can use it if you want to, but you should be allowed to ignore it. 18:53:53 yes what i meant was: that's a terrible argument 18:54:44 oh, is this the bone conduction thing 18:56:06 yah. 18:58:24 Yes you are right it isn't a good argument. 19:01:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:02:45 olsner: http://web.archive.org/web/20100708230258/http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ 19:06:04 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:09:15 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:26:37 At The Final Challenge 19:27:42 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 19:30:42 There's a rebuttal for On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets: An Empirical Study around. 19:31:29 http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200511112730.afdb_effectiveness EQUAL TIME 19:32:50 Hardest Room (with 126 deaths) 19:32:58 Apparently a nameless room 19:35:54 Goggel Glass has a bone conduction speaker, doesn't it? 19:37:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:39:10 And now my resolution's scrwed up, don't know how to fix it 19:39:15 And all I wanted was a screenshot 19:39:16 Dammit 19:39:32 I can't even see most of the screen 19:39:37 It's like I'm zoomed in weirdly 19:39:51 Will a restart help? Not like I can even see any eplies until more people talk 19:40:19 Ok shrunk down the XChat window 19:40:23 HELP 19:40:24 xrandr --mode WxY might help. 19:41:04 That gives me the usage instructions 19:41:07 Possibly it needs an --output OUTPUTNAME too, I don't know how it works. I'm sure your desktop environment has GUI things for resolution configuramation. 19:41:37 I can't really reach anything in my desktop environment right now 19:41:45 "xrandr -q" for a list of modes, then "xrandr --output DVI-1 --mode WxH" is something you could try. 19:42:01 Where WxH is a suitable resolution, and DVI-1 is picked from the output of xrandr -q. 19:43:35 fizzie, that worked, thank you 19:44:27 I think I lost my save 19:44:36 After I killed VVVVVV 19:46:36 Sgeo_: oh, the hardest room thing is a bug 19:46:47 it's the Gravitron, I think 19:52:24 The most common command I use with xrandr is xrandr -s 0 19:52:36 Which basically sets the current monitor to the highest resolution 19:56:05 Oh, that's one from the pre-1.2 multiple-outputs era. 19:59:28 nooodl, have you played any of the player levels? 19:59:36 i'm making one 19:59:38 Cool 20:02:14 it's very dot action 20:06:24 what does "dot action" mean? 20:07:34 kmc: hah! as I suspected, a conspiracy to get better antennas on conspiracy nuts 20:12:56 olsner, it's a game 20:16:06 a platform game that bleeps a lot? 20:21:46 yeah 20:22:37 ok, then I think I played it ... it blept a lot 20:25:48 -!- dvorakbot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:35:37 It also only has dots. 20:35:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:35:49 It was much of a topic of discusson on #esoteric a while back. 20:45:45 If ion can do it... 20:45:55 The Chipophone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pchpDD5EU 20:46:27 (For some reason, #2 of top comments -- "I'M THROWING MONEY AT THE SCREEN BUT IT'S NOT WORKING PLZ HELP" -- sounded a bit like elliott.) 20:48:01 that might be even better if it were pressure sensitive 20:49:09 although chiptunes kind of abstracts in other directions... 20:49:19 I looked up "tin foil hat" in Wikipedia, to try to understand? 20:50:52 Sgeo_: I've played (not beaten) all of the featured levels from the Terry's blog... you do run into poor scripting making it impossible to beat things sometimes... also sometimes you run into things that are very difficult for humans. 20:55:46 I doubt a tin foil hat would work by itself, it might even cause more problems, but something more complicated might work. 20:55:57 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:22:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:22:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:22:41 -!- oonbotti2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:23:23 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 21:46:10 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 21:46:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:49:29 -!- Bike has joined. 21:55:13 What's the name for the thing you get if you take a cube, tessellate each face to four squares and then push all vertices out so that they lie on a sphere... oh, a deltoidal icositetrahedron, perhaps. 21:56:30 (Names of polyhedra are really funky.) 21:58:07 (I mean... great disnub dirhombidodecahedron, anyone?) 22:02:27 is that an actual -hedron? the great ditrigonal dodecacronic hexecontahedron is 22:03:09 If you mean the great disnub dirhombidodecahedron, it's real enough to have a Wikipedia page. 22:03:32 "Some authors do not count it as a uniform polyhedron, because some pairs of edges coincide." 22:03:47 it doesn't seem to be listed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Polyhedra 22:04:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_disnub_dirhombidodecahedron "Categories: Uniform polyhedra" 22:04:20 What kind of crazy bastard puts checkpoints on disappearing platforms??? 22:05:25 I don't think Category:Polyhedra includes its subcategories in the list of pages. 22:06:42 (I mean, "Cube" is not in Category:Polyhedra either, because it's in the Uniform polyhedra/Regular polyhedra/Cubes subcategory instead.) 22:07:11 There's a "Fictional cubes" subcategory of that. 22:07:22 Including the gelatinous cube, and the Cosmic Cube. 22:07:37 and timecube? 22:07:53 That's not in there; there's only six fictional cubes. 22:07:57 time cube is real! 22:08:10 Well, unless you count the Marvel Comics Cosmic Cubes further subcategory. 22:25:00 "A null pointer error? Seriously? Programming languages with THAT primitive design flaw were abandoned centuries ago. Something funny is going on." 22:25:04 I like this person 22:25:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:28:07 which world fell an why did no one tell me 22:28:14 *and 22:29:03 SYNTAX ERROR: THE > OPERATOR IS NOT DEFINED FOR ARGUMENTS APPLE, ORANGE 22:30:40 oerjan: this is what mosh is for :P <-- most wouldn't be _necessary_ if tcp/ip worked properly in the modern internet. 22:31:21 *mosh 22:31:51 don't tell me widow's spell checker sneaks into putty too. 22:32:09 (i was going to correct "widow" then realized it didn't deserve it.) 22:32:22 well, tcp/ip didn't really anticipate such high latency or roaming, I think. 22:32:48 (i _have_ turned off the spell checker btw, but some places _still_ ignore that) 22:33:48 oerjan: i don't agree, TCP/IP doesn't roam no matter how blissfully premodern your Internet is 22:34:17 or do you mean just in some particular case 22:34:33 kmc: mind you i am _not_ actually roaming, my laptop is just sitting there and still the wireless breaks irregularly :( 22:34:49 so yes, some particular case. 22:35:28 well mosh also has the benefit that after a long drop, it doesn't have to resend all the traffic it was trying to send you before, just sync the current state 22:35:44 which isn't really compatible with TCP's model of an in-order reliable data stream 22:36:02 right 22:36:31 although tmux also does that part, i assume. 22:39:17 hm all this basically happens because humans are incapable of designing a complex system without bugs. ok that's trivial, but still depressing. 22:39:38 or rather, a system with complex intertwining goals. 22:39:42 i bet cockroaches are way better at it 22:40:03 Bike: so just set off the nukes right away, you mean? sounds plausible. 22:40:49 there is another benefit of mosh 22:40:54 in that it gets oerjan to switch to linux 22:41:17 i don't think it's either sufficient or necessary for that, elliott 22:42:02 how much is the "sufficient" part helped by a crazy zealot coming to trondheim armed with an installation CD and an axe 22:42:48 well i suppose if that actually happened, it might work. 22:44:02 ok now how about without the axe 22:44:15 nah, bring the axe, it will be amusing. 22:44:25 ok but you have to buy it for me 22:44:38 that is a problem. 22:44:59 you see, i don't even manage to buy cds, how do you expect me to buy an axe. 22:45:14 kmc: TCP/HIP hth 22:45:29 HTH/IP 22:46:12 There's a HIP guy at the university's telecommunications lab, AIUI. 22:46:27 `run mkdir wisdom/hth; learn HTH/HIP is the official #esoteric network protocol. 22:46:30 mkdir: cannot create directory `wisdom/hth': File exists \ /hackenv/bin/learn: 4: cannot create wisdom/hth/hip: Directory nonexistent \ I knew that. 22:46:31 kmc: i need to pay 3 pounds just to adjust the right device's audio volume, how fucked is the world on a scale of 0 to 14.7 22:46:36 what 22:46:41 oops that's a problem. 22:46:44 that is a fantastic pair of errors 22:46:54 `? hth 22:46:56 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 22:47:11 kmc: answer the question 22:47:20 i don't know about questions 22:47:22 or answers 22:48:23 how fucked is the world. 22:48:34 we can renormalize your answer to the correct scale 22:49:45 http://infrahip.hiit.fi/index.php?index=about <- they made this, though I don't really think HIP's going to hip it up. 22:51:48 Is it possible to make a fair 5-sided die? 22:52:07 I wonder what prompted "(In Chinese: zhu-ji shi-bie xie-yi)" 22:52:36 Bike: did you decide yet 22:53:03 i don't know, did you answer my trondheim question yet! 22:53:20 what was the trondheim question? 22:53:39 and you might want to ask oerjan instead of elliott (hth) 22:53:54 why didn't you (elliott) feed oerjan more on your (elliott's) trip (so that oerjan would have the energy to ban that one person) 22:54:03 *elliohth 22:54:10 hey I gave oerjan valuable information about that one person in the logs. 22:54:27 what kind of drugz was that trip made of 22:55:26 "There are two varieties of this level an easy version and a hard version but Id strongly recommend avoiding the hard version unless youre an IWBTG veteran or something. In any case, the easy version is only easy in a comparative sense its actually pretty bloody hard I died 639 times in my playthrough!" 22:57:24 this inforation isn't as valuable as food, imo. 22:58:44 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:00:18 elliott: well i already had figured it was the same as that spiral guy 23:00:24 Hip Transfer Hrotocol 23:00:25 yes 23:00:30 but I assumed it was the exact same name. 23:00:39 the use of different names makes my troll-o-meter go up. 23:01:10 but the spiral thing was nice 23:02:00 `? hth 23:02:02 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 23:06:29 map ((`mod` 3) . subtract 2 . (2^)) [1..] 23:06:41 > map ((`mod` 3) . subtract 2 . (2^)) [1..] 23:06:42 [0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,... 23:06:54 Oh, that's a rather simple pattern 23:08:02 What is the resolution and data specification of joysticks of the computers at the time of Infocom? 23:08:41 > map ((`mod` 3) . (2^)) [1..] 23:08:42 [2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,... 23:11:20 Powers of two are never divisible by 3 23:11:33 Which is what you'd expect from unique factorisation thing 23:11:37 indeed 23:11:47 -!- mnoqy has joined. 23:11:53 but what was the purpose of the subtract 2? 23:12:22 To see which powers of two minus two were divisible by 3 23:12:45 At least C64 sticks (presumably more or less contemporary with Infocom) are -- I believe -- overwhelmingly just digital (four directions), despite there being pins in the control port hooked to SID's two 8-bit A/D converters. 23:13:10 `addquote patents do seem to encourage innovation, but much of it is innovation on how to make things slightly worse to avoid patents 23:13:14 I wonder how you'd prove \n -> 2^(2*n-1) `mod` 3 == const 0 23:13:15 1067) patents do seem to encourage innovation, but much of it is innovation on how to make things slightly worse to avoid patents 23:13:22 ah, but all powers of two minus two are 0 which is divisible by 3 23:13:26 For all positive integers n 23:15:27 FreeFull: 2^(2*n-1) = 4^(n-1)*2 == 1^(n-1)*2 = 1 (mod 3) 23:15:44 oops 23:15:49 * = 2 23:16:45 oerjan: I don't think your reasoning is very correct 23:17:02 FreeFull: um yes it is? standard congruence calculation... 23:17:12 == stands for congruent 23:17:18 > let f n = 2^(2*n - 1) `mod` 3 in f 3 23:17:19 2 23:17:20 > let f n = 2^(2*n - 1) `mod` 3 in f 2 23:17:21 2 23:17:22 > let f n = 2^(2*n - 1) `mod` 3 in f 1 23:17:23 2 23:17:24 oerjan: uhhh do you have a phd 23:17:27 i think not 23:17:34 elliott: indeed, i have a dsc 23:17:41 I think I just meant 2*n rather than 2*n - 1 23:17:44 stands for Doesn't know Shit or Crap 23:18:19 FreeFull: in which case, 2^(2*n) = 4^n == 1^n = 1 (mod 3) 23:18:42 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 23:19:03 guys, I'm making a tilebased game, how many Z layers should I have? 23:19:04 > let f n = 2^(2*n) `mod` 3 in f 1 23:19:05 1 23:19:07 > let f n = 2^(2*n) `mod` 3 in f 2 23:19:08 1 23:19:09 > let f n = 2^(2*n) `mod` 3 in f 3 23:19:10 1 23:19:13 oerjan: Yeah, that's right 23:19:16 But your first one wasn't 23:19:44 GOMADWarrior: surely there is a more appropriate channel for this. 23:20:01 #gamedev is too slow 23:20:04 Oh, that's what you meant by * = 2 23:20:08 I was confused about that 23:20:17 GOMADWarrior, 36 23:20:28 GOMADWarrior: so, in other words, yes, and you already know about it. 23:20:34 ok, that's a good number 23:20:43 oerjan: Ok, now prove P != NP 23:20:45 how many are underground? 23:20:52 52 23:21:00 < 36 23:21:04 -52 23:21:29 0 < x < 36 23:21:47 FreeFull: i'll have to invent an unnatural form of proof first 23:22:50 oerjan: Such as ! = N? 23:23:12 And of course, in this case multiplication is commutative 23:24:10 FreeFull: another thing to note is that 2^(n+1) = 2*(2^n) == 2*(2^n `mod` 3) (mod 3) so going from n to n+1 is like a finite state machine. 23:24:12 P != NP == P N= NP == NP = NP, refl 23:24:48 oerjan: I see 23:25:09 this of course also works for other values of 2 and 3 >:) 23:25:58 Such as 5 or 8 23:25:59 oh and euler's totient function gives you a way to find a cycle length, although not necessarily optimal 23:26:03 yes. 23:26:57 What about the carmichael totient function? 23:27:55 um it's not his totient function i think, it's his _conjecture_ 23:28:03 also first time i heard of it. 23:29:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmichael_function 23:29:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmichael's_totient_function_conjecture 23:30:18 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:31:02 FreeFull: oh aha. well that still doesn't solve the problem for a _given_ a. 23:31:52 which may vary for the same n. 23:32:11 (for one thing, a=1 always has m=1) 23:34:00 > let f 0 = 2; f x = 2^(f (x-1)) - 1; in f 10 23:34:17 * FreeFull pokes lambdabot 23:34:20 > 3 23:34:22 3 23:35:09 > let f 0 = 2; f x = 2^(f (x-1)) - 1; in f 1 23:35:12 3 23:35:14 > let f 0 = 2; f x = 2^(f (x-1)) - 1; in f 2 23:35:15 7 23:35:16 > let f 0 = 2; f x = 2^(f (x-1)) - 1; in f 3 23:35:17 127 23:35:20 > let f 0 = 2; f x = 2^(f (x-1)) - 1; in f 4 23:35:21 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 23:35:26 > let f 0 = 2; f x = 2^(f (x-1)) - 1; in f 5 23:35:46 oerjan: Can you prove this function is prime for all naturals x? 23:35:50 Or otherwise 23:37:13 did lambdabot give up 23:37:19 Yes 23:37:29 It just isn't saying it did for some reason 23:37:47 2^170141183460469231731687303715884105727 is a pretty big number 23:37:53 probably caused by > 'b':cycle"adonk" (in another channel) 23:38:29 Requires 170141183460469231731687303715884105728 bits to store naively 23:38:38 Which is how many petabytes? 23:38:43 -!- GOMADWarrior has left. 23:39:09 > 170141183460469231731687303715884105728 / (1024^5) 23:39:10 1.5111572745182865e23 23:39:15 A lot of petabytes 23:39:33 lots of lotsabytes 23:39:55 > length "2^170141183460469231731687303715884105727" -- i have an idea re: storage 23:39:56 41 23:40:01 FreeFull: well you _maybe_ could try the lucas-lehmer test on that last one, i'm not sure how big mersenne numbers can be handled currently 23:40:13 Bike: well now you have to store ghc 23:40:19 Bike: and how many petabytes is that 23:40:26 oerjan: f 5 is probably too big 23:40:31 not that many, imo. 23:40:42 Bike: now i have to line words up... 23:40:50 no you don't. 23:40:59 Bike: yes i do. this is how it works 23:41:09 Bike: thank you for your coöperation 23:41:16 öõō 23:41:19 n 23:41:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:42:02 Bike: how long does this thing go on 23:42:13 Bike: it gets tiresome after a while 23:42:23 41 23:42:28 does lucas-lehmer require actually storing the number itself 23:42:57 Bike: are you sure you don't mean 36 23:43:23 Bike: since these lines are 36 chars 23:43:33 oh hm right it would require numbers of similar size, at least 23:44:05 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:45:34 Whomever proves f is prime for all naturals, will probably be very highly regarded 23:45:49 Bike: do i really have to say "Bike" 23:46:00 Bike: or is it just 36-letter lines? 23:46:17 Bike: btw is dropping '?'s cheating? 23:47:59 FreeFull: is this an unsolved problem? 23:48:32 shachaf: hi 23:48:40 shachaf: I think you can drop the bike if you're e.g. not talking to bike 23:48:43 i'd imagine you could at least do some trial division on f 5 23:48:59 mnoqy: ok i'll stop 23:49:01 oerjan: I believe it's unsolved 23:49:15 shachaf: maybe we could set up a bot to kick you when you say something with length not 36 23:49:59 Can you pad with spaces? 23:50:43 maybe set up a bot to kick shachaf if he says too many consecutive lines of the same length 23:50:54 mnoqy: good bot 23:50:56 FreeFull: "It is not known if c_5 is prime, but it is known that it has no prime factor less than 10^(51) (Noll; private correspondence with C. K. Caldwell, Aug. 10, 2003)." 23:51:14 (Source: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Catalan-MersenneNumber.html) 23:51:21 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 10 1000 23:51:22 24 23:51:48 ("private correspondence" is the best reference.) 23:51:51 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 3 23:51:52 2 23:51:54 fizzie: Why are they just digital even though it has analog wires in it? 23:51:56 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 5 23:51:57 can't find file: L.hs 23:51:59 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 5 23:52:00 3 23:52:04 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 7 23:52:05 2 23:52:08 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 11 23:52:09 7 23:52:12 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 13 23:52:13 11 23:52:16 oerjan: This will take very long 23:52:17 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 17 23:52:18 9 23:52:20 you know you could like 23:52:27 automate it? 23:52:31 do some programming? 23:52:35 olsner: I like how you subtly messed up ion's blah score. 23:52:48 Also, here is the list of computers which Infocom has assigned ID numbers for Z-machine story files: DECSystem-20, Apple IIe, Macintosh, Amiga, Atari ST, IBM PC, Commodore 128, Commodore 64, Apple IIc, Apple IIgs. 23:53:06 ion: hth 23:53:18 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in elem 1 $ map (pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727) [19, 21 .. 99] 23:53:19 False 23:53:38 Do you know how the joysticks work on these computers? 23:53:43 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in elem 1 $ map (pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727) [101, 103 .. 999] 23:53:44 False 23:53:54 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in elem 1 $ map (pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727) [101, 103 .. 99999] 23:53:57 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:54:00 > let pow2mod 0 _ = 1; pow2mod n m | odd n = (2*pow2mod (n-1) m) `mod` m | otherwise = (pow2mod (n `div` 2) m)^2 `mod` m in elem 1 $ map (pow2mod 170141183460469231731687303715884105727) [101, 103 .. 9999] 23:54:02 oerjan: If that's testing the next number, did you notice I mentioned it's been tested up to 10^51? 23:54:04 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:54:05 zzo38: IBM PC would probably use a game port 23:54:16 fizzie: NO I DIDN'T O KAY 23:54:28 Atari ST had its own connector, and I think Commodore 64 and 128 did too 23:54:34 tested for all reals up to 10^-51 23:54:52 I don't know if the DECSystem-20 had joystick options 23:55:31 `quote 23:55:33 535) Second Life is like... real life, modelled by people who've READ about real life, you know, in books. 23:55:40 zzo38: I don't know why they didn't do analog joysticks that much, they just didn't. There were paddles connecting to the control port that did use the A/D lines. 23:56:23 the PC joystick is analog right 23:56:40 For PC, it depends 23:56:54 There are many different joysticks 23:56:55 i mean the original joystick port joystick 23:57:01 I think usually analog 23:57:07 How many bits? 23:57:19 axes are potentiometers, hardware reads it by discharging a capacitor through them and timing how long that takes 23:57:25 kmc: i think that act is about drugz, not computer hardware 23:57:28 a very cheap form of ADC 23:57:32 kmc: axes are used to cut down trees 23:57:45 btw you can do the same to make a touch sensor on a microcontroller 23:57:51 using just two I/O pins and one big resistor 23:57:57 and a bit of wire or a plate to be touched 23:58:05 well it's a bit different but similar 23:58:15 elliott: lovely quote 23:58:21 you toggle one of the pins and see how long the other takes to change, and that depends on the capacitance on your plate etc. 23:58:33 oerjan: thanks, standard quote fee applies 23:58:40 address the cheque to hexham 23:58:48 I mean what is the format of the data that is available to the computer program? 23:59:52 zzo38: I think in the original PC joystick interface, the timing kmc mentioned was done in the software. 2013-07-07: 00:00:16 who the heck uses axes to cut down trees nowadays 00:01:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:01:54 The game port IO port is just one byte; four bits for buttons (A1, A2, B1, B2), and four for the "has it timed out yet" bits for X/Y axes of joysticks A/B. 00:03:22 O, so that's how it works. 00:03:51 zzo38: Did you see that ion and I used your IRC server? 00:03:56 How does it know when to start though? 00:04:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:04:25 shachaf: I haven't looked. What channels did you use? (If it isn't one of the permanent channels, it won't be logged anywhere that it was even in use.) 00:04:38 It was one of the permanent channels. 00:04:44 I don't remember which. 00:04:50 Well, I can look. 00:04:58 Perhaps +TEXNICARD? 00:05:25 If you haven't even seen it after all this time, it doesn't seem like a very good way to contact you. 00:05:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:05:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:05:47 Yes I found it now. 00:05:53 zzo38: It resets (by discharging the capacitor) on write, I think, and then you wait how long it takes for the bit to go from 0 to 1. 00:06:32 shachaf: You can use the SUMMON command to make my computer make noise and then that is a better way to contact me. 00:06:54 Is that an IRC command? 00:07:00 My client doesn't support it. 00:07:01 shachaf, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/elan.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/belker.htm 00:07:06 zzo38: Though there's a BIOS interrupt routine to do it, if you count that as "available to program". 00:07:15 shachaf: I'm sure it supports /QUOTE. 00:07:21 Sgeo_: ? 00:07:38 fizzie: Yes, but how am I to know about SUMMON? I'll forget it about by the time I want to contact zzo38 again. 00:07:57 shachaf: It's a STANDARD COMMAND, why would you FORGET. 00:07:59 shachaf: It is in the help file of the IRC server. 00:08:02 quote 00:08:36 fizzie: So why doesn't my IRC client support it? 00:08:37 shachaf: it's a fully standard command which only zzo38 implements, of course 00:08:38 checkmate 00:08:54 "The SUMMON command can be used to give users who are on a host running an IRC server a message asking them to please join IRC." 00:09:03 Are we sure this command wasn't added by zzo38? 00:09:38 It's a well-established command. 00:09:55 `pastelogs .*please 00:10:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_commands#SUMMON see 00:10:16 zzo38: What IRC server do you use? 00:10:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5108 00:10:26 shachaf: A variant of ngIRCd. 00:11:06 What Gopher server do you use? 00:11:19 One I wrote myself. 00:11:40 Is the code available? 00:12:05 Yes, although it is written in BASIC so you will need a BASIC compiler in order to use it. 00:12:32 oerjan: btw since you're a wiki admin now I can tell you to feature a language. 00:12:46 i was afraid of that. 00:12:46 zzo38: Why BASIC? 00:12:53 oerjan: Please feature Norwegian. 00:13:00 hm, i guess esme 00:13:33 shachaf: That is just what I used. If I rewrite it again today probably I use C, and make some other improvements too. 00:13:34 oerjan: um esme isn't even on the candidates list. 00:13:39 typical. 00:13:47 universe is cruel 00:14:00 oerjan: plz feature nynorsk hth 00:14:12 zzo38: What other servers do you run? 00:14:24 shachaf: eg trur ikkje det er nokon god idé. 00:14:55 Google translates that to: "I do not think there is any good idea." 00:15:01 Which seems correct, as these things go. 00:15:16 zzo38: If you count the BIOS joystick reading routine, you could say the precision on the PC is around 9 bits; it returns a 16-bit word, but the RBIL says "A 250kOhm joystick typically returns 0000h-01A0h". 00:15:18 factually correct, yet not translationary correct 00:15:24 (A correct statement, I mean, not a correct translation.) 00:15:27 help 00:15:30 shachaf: Apache HTTP server. I had Synchronet on at one time, but now I don't. However, I might put it back later, or a different telnet server. I also run a SMTP server I wrote myself, although it is usually inactive and nobody can connect. 00:15:42 oerjan: don't you mean translationarily correct 00:15:51 no. 00:16:00 or wait 00:16:02 yes. 00:16:07 zzo38: is the code for your smtp server available 00:16:15 shachaf: Yes, although it is written in PHP. 00:16:28 oh 00:16:39 no thanks 00:18:17 Also, it just concatenates all the messages into one file called "mailbox.txt", including headers and everything, and it can only deliver to a single email address. Furthermore, it isn't meant to be running all the time; it is meant only for a single message to be received, and it won't accept multiple simultaneous connections. It will play a sound when a message arrives, though. 00:18:43 Sgeo_: what's the "e t a" on `olist 898 00:19:21 I think it's supposed to come at wheneverrichburlewpostsit'o'Clock 00:19:32 hth 00:19:54 Are you hinting that it'll be posted today? 00:20:12 In the Z-machine, the JSTAT extension table word is sixteen bits long, and I am trying to figure out its format. It was never documented, implemented, or used, but its position in the file is known. 00:21:03 shachaf, it will definitely either be posted today or a date that comes after today. 00:23:05 ∀d.d`comesAfter`today => posted(today) /\ posted(d)? 00:23:19 s#/\\#\\/# 00:26:21 Are you hinting that it'll be posted at all? 00:29:16 darn i'm out of apples. bet a doctor will show up if i'm not careful. 00:30:28 oerjan: are you racist against doctors.............. 00:32:00 hey those doctors are dangerous, some of them will cut you up if you let them close 00:32:06 shachaf: that s command would've been a lot more fun if you hadn't used #s... 00:51:41 zzo38: What's the difference between port 194 and port 6667? 00:51:45 irc vs. ircd 00:52:59 one is de jure standard and one is de facto standard? 00:54:15 but which one is du jour standard 00:56:28 So zzo38 wrote his Gopher server in BASIC. That’s actually fitting. 00:56:57 A standard du jour would be a really annoying kind of standard. 00:57:49 a "non" kind of standard 01:00:41 So in the linear lambda calculus, the dual-cancellation function has the type ((a -> Bottom) -> Bottom) -> a. Looks suspiciously like the type of the "shift" operator in delimited continuations. 01:01:24 What's that? 01:01:31 What's which? 01:02:37 The type of shift. 01:03:10 And does this have to do with linearity specifically? 01:03:37 Mm. In Control.Monad.CC, it's p b -> ((m a -> m b) -> m b) -> m a. The first argument, p b, just indicates which limit you're using. 01:04:05 :t cont 01:04:06 ((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a 01:04:55 And yeah, I think this does have to do with linearity specifically. Like, in linear lambda calculus, Cont Bottom is essentially the identity. 01:06:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 01:07:14 So what's this going to look like. There's this function cancel :: ((a -> Bottom) -> Bottom) -> a. So the entire calculation is going to look like f (cancel g), where f :: a -> r and g :: (a -> Bottom) -> Bottom. 01:07:30 The function "cancel" is magically aware of both f and g. It has to produce something of type r. 01:08:11 Well, this is easy if you assume Bottom = r. 01:08:24 shachaf: Port 194 is standard, although usually much higher numbered port are used such as 6667 and numbers near it. 01:08:59 Which actually seems like a perfectly defensible assumption, because Bottom is the "most inconvenient possible type": it cannot be obtained, and, once obtained, it cannot be disposed of. 01:09:14 So it could be anything. 01:10:07 TTT. 01:10:27 (Isn't it weird how when people in this channel flip three coins, they almost always come up HTH?) 01:16:17 tswett: two of them are double-headed coins and one is a double-tailed coin hth 01:20:42 Oh, I see. TTH 01:20:57 In linear logic, I think the dual of X is the same as (X -o Bottom) because bottom is the unit for par and implication is done by the dual of left side, par, right, so dual(X) par Bottom = dual(X) so ((X -o Bottom) -o Bottom) can also X. 01:21:06 Isn't it? 01:21:15 Yeah, that's one interpretation. 01:23:19 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:27:47 Some of the linear lambda calculus is described here: http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/papers/lineartaste/lineartaste-revised.pdf 01:56:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:56:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 01:57:06 `? nooodl 01:57:08 noooodl is right 02:09:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:00 `learn nooodl is the correct spelling 02:10:04 I knew that. 02:13:07 Being told that I probably got ripped off :/ 02:13:30 `? nooodl 02:13:32 nooooodl is the correct spelling 02:13:35 good 02:14:10 In particular, that the 650M sucks 02:18:50 what 650M 02:19:20 the 650m 02:19:29 wait, that's not the amount of ram in your very expensive new machine? because if so, then yes, you have been. 02:20:21 (it's only slightly more than my frequently thrashing previous laptop had...) 02:20:34 Dual nVidia GeForce GT 650 M 02:20:50 aha. just the gpu then? 02:21:06 Yeah. And apparently it's not so great? 02:21:23 Oh, SLI 02:21:29 wait the sticker on my new laptop says approximately that, except 635M :P 02:21:50 also 2 GB after that 02:22:05 "Lenovo IdeaPad Y500 (59359559) Notebook Intel Core i7 3630QM(2.40GHz) 15.6" 16GB Memory DDR3 1600 16GB SSD 1TB HDD 5400rpm Dual NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M SLI" 02:22:11 *this sticker (it has more) 02:22:32 Paid 1159 for that, a few hundred more in warranty 02:22:35 Was I ripped off 02:22:58 * oerjan has no real idea, btw 02:23:28 i know what i got wasn't the top model, anyway 02:24:27 i hear that it's a bad idea to buy a Lenovo fooPad for foo /= Think 02:24:34 650M SLI with a 3630QM is a little pants-on-head stupid though 02:24:44 I wonder why they have 650M SLI, that seems a little weird 02:24:53 like, two small cards vs one big one (there must be some good reason?) 02:25:07 I remember the 680M being incredibly expensive, I guess that could be why 02:29:42 Would I at least have a chance of replacing the graphics card myself? 02:45:28 -!- noooodl has joined. 02:45:42 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:48:45 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:53:14 -!- amca has joined. 03:30:13 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:32:44 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 03:43:15 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:43:23 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:47:47 http://type.method.ac/ 03:47:51 Kern Type, the kerning game 03:48:58 It's kind of broken for me, but then again a lot of stuff is broken for me, blah 03:49:23 I wonder why 03:51:27 hm i got 100/100 on gargantuan 03:51:32 i think their scoring is broken!! 03:51:36 because i was p. far off 03:51:54 coppro, was that sarcastic? Because if you know why stuff is broken in my browser, please tell me 03:52:16 Sgeo_: nope :( 03:53:22 http://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-to-make-your-coffee-bulletproof-and-your-morning-too/ 03:55:36 And here I was hoping that bulletproof coffee would protect me from bullets. 03:56:00 i know! 03:56:10 this disappoints me 04:08:49 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Changing host). 04:08:49 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:11:48 -!- conehead has joined. 04:18:45 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:39:07 help how do i parametricity 04:46:52 I just watched an animation that's 13 years old 04:49:10 okay? 04:49:44 you know the thing where you accidentally stumble onto a mathoverflow page? 04:50:00 no 04:50:30 hey Bike how do i parametricity 04:50:30 http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/episode1.html 04:50:39 I probably first watched this over a decade ago 04:50:59 shachaf: theta_1, theta_2, etc 04:51:22 Bike: θx 04:51:30 yes. 04:51:37 or should that be þx 04:51:45 I don't have bulletproof coffee, but I put heavy cream in black tea 04:51:47 sometimes 04:51:55 perhaps I should put butter in instead 04:52:02 Gracenotes's greatest weakness. 04:52:10 Now we know where to shoot! 04:52:24 my teapot? 04:52:35 Your coffee. 04:53:23 I don't have coffee 04:53:54 that is my weakness :( 04:54:03 drat and double drat! 05:09:06 elliott: you're like a grownup now arent you 05:09:15 17 05:09:25 whats your favorite beer 05:09:52 I've never had beer 05:10:19 well, sam smiths is worth looking into. i think ive only disliked their lager, for blandness 05:11:33 Would you have some idea about the format of "MID files" for Z-machine? I have the MID files for only one game (Sherlock), and all of them seem mostly the same: A note on command on channel 0 with velocity 64, some 0xFF command (possibly a delay?), and a note on command on channel 0 with velocity 0 (which is treated as a note off, due to the MIDI specification). 05:11:54 elliott: how drunk are you right now 05:11:55 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:12:44 The only documentation I could find says it consists of a 16-bit length followed by a "sequence of commands"; it says it might have something to do with MIDI, but doesn't quite make it very clear. It also says the third byte of the sequence of commands tells it what note to play; it looks to me like it is actually the second byte which does that. 05:13:15 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:25:01 Bike: elliott might be, on non-beer. i can assure you that i am, however. 05:25:19 on a scale!! 05:25:33 Bike: 0.0 05:25:33 what 05:26:22 not drunk enough imo 05:26:46 Bike: im like three pints in at least. 05:27:03 ,aybe more? probably more. its hard to tell. 05:30:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:31:21 -!- augur has joined. 05:31:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:31:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:33:06 The left speaker on my computer isn't working for some reason. 05:34:00 elliott: yay i solved my cabal install problem. turns out it only went wrong when running from inside winghci and worked fine on a real command line (after wiping out and repairing the database mess caused by the first attempt) 05:35:11 on the negative side, this of course will delay my switching to linux. 05:37:08 partially my problem was caused by the awkwardness in windows 8 of _getting_ to a command line, which caused me to start cabal from inside winghci in the first place. but now i've made a shortcut for it. 05:41:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:44:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:50:54 -!- amca has quit (Quit: Farewell). 06:09:40 oerjan: It is easy to get the command-line on Windows 8. Push Windows+R and then type cmd.exe 06:09:51 Same as Windows 7 and XP. 06:11:05 Luckily that still works on XP and all later version of Windows I have worked with on other computers. So does ALT+SPACE, ALT+F4, ALT+TAB, and all those other commands; they still continue to work just fine. 06:12:51 well i never learned the Windows+R shortcut before, or at least never remembered it. 06:13:12 that's a useful tric. 06:13:12 because it was easier to remember just going to the start menu 06:14:46 It looks like really confusing, but actually most of the same keyboard commands still work, even when running full-screen programs. 06:16:59 I don't know all of the programs in Windows 8 (my own computer doesn't have Windows 8), although it seems there are many full-screen programs; you can still push ALT+F4 to close a program and ALT+TAB to switch between them, even though they changed around all of the GUI stuff. 06:17:37 you can probably still press ctrl+insert to copy and shift+insert to paste 06:17:42 man, I'm going soft 06:17:43 MS likes their backwards compatibility 06:17:59 ꙮ.ꙮ 06:18:03 :'( 06:18:20 oh no, coppro is melting! 06:19:18 myndzi: Well, having the same keyboard commands work (and retaining cmd.exe; I am glad they did that and didn't force you to use PowerShell instead, which I almost expected them to do) is really the only reason I was able to figure out their computer in order to set it up for them. 06:19:35 hehe, i bet 06:19:40 gimme back dat command.com dammit 06:19:41 :P 06:19:46 i wanna edit my autoexec.bat 06:19:59 windows 8 is weird :'( 06:20:00 help 06:20:02 powershell has a lt of good things about it 06:20:08 but error messages is NOT one 06:20:21 i don't want a fuckin stack trace to tell me 'command not found' 06:21:02 Command.com is a DOS program though; it won't run in 64-bit Windows. You can still use a PC emulator to run DOS programs, though. 06:24:04 `quote 06:24:07 701) I swear my dreams are becoming increasingly rave + computer science oriented 06:24:09 shh, i'm just sayin' 06:24:13 `quote 06:24:15 93) Hooray! I'm an idiot. 06:24:15 you kids and your "windows" 06:24:16 ;) 06:24:17 taneb++ 06:31:29 Do you know what ".was-mid" files are? 06:31:47 Is it the case that a ".was-mid" file was a ".mid" file? 06:37:45 It doesn't appear to be, but it does seem to have something to do with MIDI. It doesn't use the ".mid" format, though; the only thing in the header is the length of the file. 06:39:51 The only ones I have seem to consist of a single note on channel zero of velocity 64 (there isn't any program change command), a delay (I don't actually know what it is, but it appears to consist of 0xFF followed by a 16-bit word; I assume it is a delay), and a note off (actually a note on with velocity zero, which the MIDI specification says is the same as a note off). 06:41:24 * copumpkin waves 06:41:32 yopumpkin 06:41:42 yochaf 06:42:03 yoyo 06:42:19 I don't know anything else about them (or how the delay is supposed to work), so I was wondering if someone else know. 06:43:45 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 06:43:46 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (*.net *.split). 06:46:53 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 06:51:29 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 07:47:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:47:35 Help 07:48:25 With what? 07:48:45 * oerjan rescues Taneb by swooping him up in a net 07:48:49 zzo38: Discovering what program generated/opened them would be helpful 07:49:05 I am on the Isle of Wight 07:49:20 oh dear, wights are dangerous 07:49:44 FreeFull: Yes, it would help. Unfortunately, I don't know. 07:49:51 The place is full of them! 07:50:35 don't let them touch you! i think! 07:50:44 zzo38: What is the creation date on them? 07:51:12 in other news, simon tatham still hasn't fixed that thing where undo doesn't work across accidentally pressing n 07:51:49 Taneb: You should try to move to the Isle of Wraith, instead; you can gain a lot of levels there. 07:52:24 Unfortunately my level is still quite 07:52:49 Low, I was aiming for the Isle of Rat 07:52:53 The date on them is 1994, although they were actually created before that. 07:53:28 DOS program territory then 07:53:51 Although could have still been a 16-bit Windows program 07:53:58 Either way, will be difficult 07:54:19 zzo38: You could write a converter to mid to see what they sound like 07:54:20 Does F_ 07:54:23 Bah 07:54:34 Stupid phone keyboard 07:55:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:56:00 Hello 07:56:29 Does F-E+V=2 work for solids not topologically isomorphic to spheres? 07:57:29 Taneb: Not in general 07:57:39 FreeFull: Well, from the information I have I think they were used on Amiga computers, as part of a game. 07:58:03 zzo38: Oh, that's good to know 07:58:05 FreeFull, thanks 07:58:33 There are also the audio files, and the format of those is documented; however, the ".was-mid" files are unknown; like I said the ones I have are all very similar and all are 11 bytes long. 07:58:51 I'm going to see if there are any .was-mid files on aminet 07:59:34 Taneb: see euler characteristic 08:00:03 oerjan, I alas am on my tiny phone 08:00:11 oerjan: how about switching to another browser at least 08:00:25 Taneb: let's say that the 2 tends to vary a bit hth 08:00:37 Nothing on aminet 08:00:47 The one with the voice "recognition" 08:01:35 Taneb: torus has 0 for example 08:01:40 Oh, the book I'm reading gets onto this 08:02:26 zzo38: I'd go ask over at pouet or an amiga forum 08:03:51 Yeah, it's talking about Euler characteristics now 08:05:18 "This way lies madness" 08:06:41 (on trying to define the concept of a hole) 08:06:53 Did you know, there is a number A for which floor(A^3n) is prime for all positive integers n? 08:07:10 can't you just say something about cuts and be done with it 08:07:14 Oh no! AltaVista is closing tomorrow! How can we find anything on the Internets any more? 08:07:37 fizzie: omg really 08:07:37 FreeFull: rings a bell 08:08:01 FreeFull, is that number computable? 08:08:32 elliott: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/54125001066/keeping-our-focus-on-whats-next "Please see below for product closure details and dates." "AltaVista (July 8, 2013)" 08:09:58 why does yahoo have a tumblr 08:10:00 Taneb: If the Riemann Hypothesis is true, yes 08:10:05 If not, I don't know 08:10:26 Bike: I think it's because they're hip? 08:10:29 fizzie: apparently AltaVista is "powered by Bing". 08:10:36 lol. 08:10:36 so I guess it's been dead a long time 08:10:56 "Now we can calculate g by drawing faces and so forth on our solids" so forth being moustaches, glasses, goatees, etc? 08:10:59 "If you’re a publisher and currently using Yahoo! WebPlayer on your site," who is this even written for 08:11:15 To stay up on all your favorite celebrity news, check out Yahoo! India OMG!. 08:11:53 "It’s a big day here at Xobni. We’ve been acquired by Yahoo! At this moment, we’re unpacking our boxes from San Francisco and settling in to the new Sunnyvale space at Yahoo! HQ." i love how i've never heard of these companies and their names are incomprehensible. 08:11:56 Bike: Yahoo owns tumblr 08:12:42 Bike: Xobni is "inbox" backwards. 08:12:49 "Yahoo! announced its intention to acquire Tumblr on May 20, 2013, for approximately $1.1 billion. The deal closed on June 20." 08:12:50 You can certainly comprehend that. 08:12:52 well they own flickr too but they didn't make a photo album announcing this 08:13:01 fizzie: you overestimate me, imo. 08:13:42 I searched "help" in AltaVista and one of the related searches was "depression help" and now I'm depressed. 08:13:50 imo, gonna take a risk and claim this is ironic. 08:13:57 no elliott 08:14:00 don't do it 08:14:05 "the worst risk" 08:14:55 Huh 08:15:38 Apparently "Kleine bottle" is a pun in German 08:15:47 take one alanisette and call me in the morning 08:16:11 fizzie: In December 2010, a Yahoo! employee leaked PowerPoint slides indicating that the search engine would be shut down as part of a consolidation at Yahoo!.[16] In May 2011, the shutdown commenced, and all results began to be returned on a Yahoo! page. 08:16:15 so they're shutting down, um, the main page and logo. 08:16:56 awesome. 08:17:25 Taneb: Small bottle, or? 08:17:26 elliott: And the logo is no longer the mountain logo either, so I guess that's a relief. 08:17:35 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:17:38 fizzie: you're old. 08:18:01 No, no, I just heard middle age doesn't begin before 36. 08:19:36 FreeFull flask/surface 08:21:07 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7od4JA2Y274 There is an old Polish show about someone in his middle age 08:27:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:28:51 A GUI interface using Visual Basic to track an IP Address http://guivbip.codeplex.com/ 08:32:56 um isn't that, like, an ancient meme from some tv show 08:33:04 yes 08:33:49 okay then 08:36:15 Aaaaah the next chapter is about the normal distribution 08:38:25 someone take backup of Taneb's brain, stat! 08:39:04 Don't say that word! 08:39:13 backup? 08:39:37 "of"? 08:39:51 No! The s word 08:40:01 I see what you did there. 08:40:16 I love the normal distribution, it's so... normal... 08:40:21 ... 08:40:28 * oerjan swats Taneb -----### 08:41:23 the citizens of my country are non-normal probability distributions with means and variances 08:41:24 @botswat 08:41:24 Unknown command, try @list 08:41:30 -!- Yonkie has joined. 08:41:36 unfortunately, they are collectively normal :( 08:42:09 @slap ion 08:42:09 * lambdabot beats up ion 08:42:51 Does the "law of large numbers" mean that people who are... materially robust... are more likely to be normal? 08:43:49 (I think I mixed up the law of large numbers and the central limit theorem, there. Aw.) 08:44:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:44:28 well it's not like statistics is an exact science! 08:45:05 In my defense, the central limit theorem involves large numbers of things. 08:45:20 -!- Yonkie has quit (Client Quit). 08:45:27 (rather, science is approximately just statistics, in the real world...) 08:46:32 well, you could do science without in-depth statistics. just require every study to give either a yes or no answer, and take the consensus of studies. 08:46:45 I had a not very good stats teacher for the harder part of stats I learnt 08:46:47 it would work reasonably well. 08:46:57 maybe. 08:47:38 Isn't that pretty close to "you could do science without statistics by pushing the statistical analysis from the scientists to the readers"? 08:49:30 That is what happens anyway. 08:50:01 The yes/no is partly decided externally, rather by the researchers (although they can make their best case). 08:51:34 Statistics affords a notion of certainty, though, so rather than taking a plurality, you take a maximum; the best most certain replicated paper and accept that. 08:54:52 Readers don't know how to do statistical analysis though 08:55:22 I'm not sure if some scientists do >.> ...or readers 08:55:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:56:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:07:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:08:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 09:13:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:09:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:26:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:35:33 -!- QuackQuacker has joined. 10:41:44 `relcome QuackQuacker 10:41:48 ​QuackQuacker: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 10:42:06 =] 10:44:05 -!- oonbotti2 has left. 10:54:02 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:54:53 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:55:08 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:55:16 -!- Koen_ has left. 10:56:04 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:56:30 Koen_: wat 10:56:43 hmm? 10:56:54 I'm gonna need some context to answer that question elliott 10:57:01 :D 10:57:07 the quit/part cycles 10:57:14 oh 10:57:24 well I don't know, that tends to happen a lot this days 10:57:37 something with the client must be wrong 10:57:48 it only happens when I start it the first time 11:15:13 elliott: hey steve is in ##nomic wondering if anyone wants to ask him about The Old Days hth 11:18:46 oerjan: my only question is when he'll start using hth 11:19:12 i haven't started infecting him yet hth 11:19:38 oerjan: are you still using IE 11:19:44 yes hth 11:19:53 how about stop twh 11:20:07 maybe later hth 11:20:20 aah! 11:22:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:23:27 oerjan: you can delay the nagging by picking a new featured language >:) 11:40:31 it's only me and steve talking in ##nomic and i'm too tired to keep up conversation :( 11:43:45 oerjan: tell him you need a nap. old people understand. 12:25:49 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:39:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:39:40 -!- augur has joined. 12:41:05 -!- augur_ has joined. 12:41:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:04:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:12:23 -!- Deewiant has joined. 13:37:30 -!- katla has joined. 13:39:53 -!- katla has quit (Changing host). 13:39:53 -!- katla has joined. 13:53:43 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:55:15 hi 13:59:23 -!- katla has changed nick to Guest49019. 13:59:23 -!- Guest49019 has quit (Killed (hubbard.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 13:59:30 -!- Guest49019 has joined. 13:59:40 -!- katla has joined. 14:07:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: NOW SLEEP). 14:13:51 -!- Guest49019 has quit (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.). 14:21:43 -!- katla has quit (Quit: katla has no reason). 14:28:40 -!- noooodl has quit (Quit: noooodl). 14:32:13 -!- oklopol has quit. 14:38:09 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 14:39:42 -!- sacje has joined. 15:29:30 Why don't they make three-legged washing machines? Would be a lot easier to level, and never be unstable. 15:31:17 Guess it'd tilt easier, though... 15:33:50 -!- vanien has joined. 15:40:25 -!- vanien has quit. 15:40:55 -!- vanien has joined. 15:41:23 -!- vanien has quit (Client Quit). 15:41:51 -!- vanien has joined. 15:43:22 -!- Bike has joined. 15:59:49 -!- katla has joined. 16:01:36 hi 16:06:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:41:41 -!- vanien has quit. 17:10:24 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Guest22624. 17:10:28 -!- Guest22624 has changed nick to Gregor. 17:33:23 fizzie, there's no reason for the thing to not be triangular in shape 17:33:35 Besides most rooms being rectangular :p 17:35:39 packing 17:35:42 ;) 17:35:58 also because the interior is cylindrical 17:36:44 I see no problem i packing triangular shapes together... assuming a house with proper geometry, at least :p 17:40:15 I was thinking they could turn the drum so that the axis of the cylinder is vertical, after which it'd fit reasonably neatly in a triangle, but I suppose then you couldn't get similar tumbling action. 17:44:19 yeah, front-load washers are better 17:44:43 All the top-load washers I've seen have had the drum in the same configuration as the front-loaders. 17:44:55 There's just been a door in the side of the drum. 17:45:47 Our old one lacked the "stop the drum so that the door points upwards" feature, so you had to manually rotate it around if it didn't happen to stop the right way around. (It never stopped the right way around.) 17:46:05 Front-load washers are still better, though, because you can stare at them, mesmerized. 17:48:15 Most cheap home washers here have vertical drums 17:48:45 There are some things Infocom defined but are unknown. One is the "picture font" in the Z-machine (font 2); I have recently figured out how that works and have implemented it in my Z-machine interpreter. However, there are some things that are still unknown. 17:49:59 One thing which remains unknown is the format of eight extension table words that were never used, implemented, or documented, beyond a short description of each that Infocom wrote. 17:51:40 They are four "mouse menu tables" (directions, inventory, frequent verbs, frequent words), a status word which the game is supposed to write to indicate which menus have been updated (I don't know which bit corresponds to which), a button event routine, a joystick event routine, a button status word, and a joystick status word. 17:52:10 It is unclear whether this means mouse buttons or joystick buttons or what, and the format of these status words is also unclear (all that is known is that they are sixteen bits each). Do you have any ideas? 17:54:43 There appears to be no way to know other than to guess. 17:55:01 Therefore, more people who make possible guesses and then see what seems better. 17:55:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:59:10 I have asked elsewhere too, but also see if anyone in here also has any possible idea of what these things mean. 18:06:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:11:34 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:18:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:19:47 I live, I think 18:21:45 may the gods of apt-get be with me 18:21:58 I somehow feel I'm going to get in trouble by upgrading to wheezy... 18:22:47 pikhq: are you married yet? 18:23:49 Is pikhq getting married? Is #esoteric invited to the wedding? 18:23:51 is gnome 3 any good? I'm scared 18:26:55 is pikhq getting married with a gnome? 18:30:17 Is the wedding logic written mostly in JavaScript? I heard that was something they did in Gnome 3. 18:30:48 fizzie: is that actually true? 18:31:33 I somehow fear I'll have to turn on gnome classic 18:34:38 it looks way to fancy 18:34:44 AnotherTest: GNOME Shell, the major UI component in GNOME 3, is, I think, largely written in JavaScript. 18:35:12 Also there was the hulabaloo about making JavaScript the "official recommended language" of GNOME, though that didn't really mean much. 18:35:20 coppro: No. 18:35:35 :( 18:36:03 what's with the let's-rewrite-everything-in-javascript-hype 18:36:38 AnotherTest: I think they were more about recommending it for new code. 18:36:43 AnotherTest: Well, you see, Javascript has become the universal bytecode. 18:37:12 pikhq: Please elaborate 18:39:39 -!- conehead has joined. 18:41:04 Well, you see, WEB WEB WEB WEB therefore WEB 18:41:18 I really think you shoud use compiled programming languages when they will do. 18:46:59 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:56:08 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:56:58 JavaScript is a compiled language 18:57:19 this trend couldn't happen any sooner. nay, it is just in time. 19:03:02 Still, I think it isn't as good as some compiled programming language such as C. JavaScript isn't a particularly bad interpreted language, though. 19:04:23 How difficult is this as a proof-of-work? Determining a seed that has a specified feature at spawn (e.g. spawn area covered in lava) 19:08:58 you mean... in minecraft? 19:09:11 that's heavily dependent on mc's terrain gen internals then 19:09:12 Do you folks happen to know if you can fit a letter-sized magazine (not very thick) inside a C4 envelope? 19:16:36 Unfortunately I don't know. If I had such things I might try, but I don't know what C4 envelope is. 19:23:23 (I don't know the names of the different envelopes.) 19:23:39 It's one of the ISO 216 paper sizes; an envelope that reasonably fits an A4 sheet. 19:24:38 (Technically, the size of Cn is the geometric mean of An and Bn, while the size of Bn is the geometric mean of An and A(n-1).) 19:25:11 Based on the numbers, I think it might fit; letter is only 5.9 mm wider than A4, and a bit shorter. 19:30:12 are you mailing C4? I think you can get arrested for that! 19:31:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:32:03 -!- Lumpio__ has changed nick to Lumpio-. 19:39:00 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:41:47 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:49:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:08:01 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:26:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:26:35 Dammit, shachaf 20:27:31 Someone made a post about art styles on Tumblr and replied "That's a partially ordered set!" 20:27:38 I blame you for this 20:28:38 shachaf-- 20:28:41 :( 20:29:18 -!- QuackQuacker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:31:25 (okay, to be fair, the original poster did pretty much describe art styles as a partially ordered set, and I appreciate shachaf teaching me all that stuff) 20:31:33 ( shachaf++ shachaf++ ) 20:38:52 :t \shachaf -> ((shachaf ++ shachaf) ++) 20:38:53 [a] -> [a] -> [a] 20:51:23 > (\shachaf -> ((shachaf ++ shachaf) ++)) "sha" "f" 20:51:24 "shashaf" 20:53:59 The book I am reading is proving very interesting 20:58:13 For pretty much the first time ever I am seriously tempted to ring up my local bookshop and ask them to order in some of the books from the "Further Reading" section 20:58:24 Especially the bit about topology I found pretty interesting 21:00:42 what book is it 21:01:12 In Pursuit of the Unknown: 17 Equations That Changed the World by Ian Stewart 21:02:07 It's a whistlestop tour around various realms of mathematics and a bit of physics 21:02:42 Not enjoying the current chapter, on the Fourier transform 21:03:05 oh 21:03:50 Taneb, what topological equations did he cover... 21:04:04 V + F = E + 2 21:04:16 ^ 21:04:27 Well, he wrote it as V - E + F = 2 21:04:45 Then introduced topology from its proof 21:05:44 what's wrong with fourier 21:08:11 Bike, he introduced it too fast and I wasn't already that familiar with it and also I fell asleep 21:08:18 I may start the chapter over 21:08:43 sleep is hard. 21:09:46 I find sleep too easy 21:10:01 dude fuck fourier 21:10:40 fourier's awesome srry 21:12:17 Fourier's, like, so 1800s. 21:12:53 Taneb: "and I replied"? 21:13:17 Or how am I blamed here, exactly? 21:13:26 shachaf: "reblogged and added a comment" 21:13:42 Taneb: I mean: Did you drop the word "I"? 21:13:43 And you taught me about partially ordered sets in such a way that they stuck in my mind 21:13:59 shachaf: yes, yes I did 21:14:09 Anyway, since when did I talk to you about partially ordered sets? 21:14:13 Which I realise completely changes the meaning of the sentence 21:14:15 I don't remember that. 21:14:37 It came up in a bunch of other things, mainly as an example of a category 21:14:43 In #fiora, iirc 21:14:49 Oh, oh, right. 21:15:07 I think I assumed you already knew whwat it meant, though. 21:15:33 Anyway, the "cool kind of partially" ordered sets "is semilattices". 21:17:28 I don't think art styles form a semilattice 21:18:02 Oh. 21:18:28 Well, at least the poset category of art styles has a terminal object. 21:18:31 Namely ASCII art. 21:19:18 (THE JOKE IS TERMINAL) 21:19:21 does that include an arrow labelled libcaca? 21:26:22 whats #firoa 21:26:55 Some place where I'm an op, apparently 21:27:42 Oh, katla mistyped 21:28:46 fully illuminated ranches of armenia 21:28:49 hth 21:42:52 -!- katla has quit (Quit: katla has no reason). 21:49:25 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:56:03 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 21:56:06 -!- katla has joined. 22:12:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:12:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:32:40 have you all seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_Through_the_Gift_Shop 22:32:58 it's a pretty #esoteric movie 22:33:35 nope 22:37:41 how can a movie be #esoteric? 22:37:55 also, does anyone else in here know anything about quantum computation? 22:38:21 a tiny bit 22:39:21 i know that i should defer to someone with a copy of aaronson's book *ahem fiora* 22:47:16 quantum computation is weird 22:48:42 not compared to the stuff #esoteric usually deals with 22:55:54 Banksy directed a movie? 22:56:11 How does one do that while staying secretive? I thought Banksy stayed secretive 22:59:50 well, directors are already fuckin crazy 23:00:00 also he also has like, his own online store and website already. 23:01:31 Nielsen and Chuang is a good book on quantum computing 23:01:54 Sgeo_: when he's depicted in the film, he's wearing a hoodie over his face, and has a voice scrambler 23:01:59 I don't know about the directing part 23:02:22 presumably he has trusted associates who know his identity or have at least seen his face 23:02:59 ..nothing like A Scanner Darkly? 23:03:42 oh. Banksy himself. 23:03:43 Oh, I forgot it was kmc who linked, I thought I was randomly bringing up Banksy for no reason 23:04:14 kmc: is this anything like a Mary Sue of Banksy? 23:04:30 you mean a short story where he fucks spock? 23:04:54 god, who wouldn't 23:04:59 Sgeo_: amazing 23:07:44 i thought they'd found banksy and he was some boring middle class guy 23:08:41 boring middle class guy pride!! 23:08:43 -!- mnoqy has joined. 23:08:59 Hi okay 23:09:09 hi 23:13:27 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:47:07 this music video is made of ansi art. 23:50:16 Ansi art doesn't survive mpeg encoding very well 23:52:16 Phantom_Hoover: if banksy did not exist it would be necessary to invent him 2013-07-08: 00:15:49 What's that demo thing? 00:15:50 bb 00:15:57 For the ... something or other 00:16:33 * Sgeo_ installs bb to check 00:17:15 Bike, go watch bb 00:17:38 Sgeo_ stops making sense 00:17:58 kmc: it's an aalib demo program, not related to breaking bad, hth 00:17:59 wat 00:18:19 too bad 00:18:50 Wonder if someone put it on YouTube, although that would be crap 00:19:21 Bike, it's a video made of ANSI art to show off a library for encoding videos as ANSI art 00:19:44 aalib might do more than that 00:20:41 YouTubed version of ASCII rendition of a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ukhOAUseKY 00:21:16 oh come on 00:21:24 a video of bb? 00:22:03 Are there any Linux distros that don't have bb? 00:22:30 YouTube is great for linking to Windows friends 00:23:03 I made bb run on Windows once. 00:23:15 It involved Cygwin and a lot of annoyance, I think. 00:23:23 (Getting the audio working was the annoyance part.) 00:24:16 Koules! 00:24:22 That's the name of that game I forgot the name of! 00:26:39 Hmm, running bb crashed my computer. 00:26:42 Kernel panic. 00:27:22 Bleh, I want to be able to play Koules on Windows 00:27:46 There is a port 00:28:03 Maybe someone should port it to HTML5+Javascript 00:28:10 Was going to say Flash, but Flash sucks 00:29:00 shachaf: hax 01:17:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:18:20 bike: nya? did someone say aaaronson book computing fiora something or other 01:18:27 -!- Bike has joined. 01:21:08 18:18 < Fiora> bike: nya? did someone say aaaronson book computing fiora something or other 01:21:19 hi Fiora 01:30:46 coppro asked about quantum computing. 01:40:31 oh 01:40:49 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 01:59:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:08:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:14:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:16:39 -!- Bike has joined. 02:36:57 overheard: "Say what you will about that circus, but I still have a huge hard-on" 02:38:02 cirque de soleil is like that for me too 02:39:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:55:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:30:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:48:58 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 04:36:54 oh: "a one-hit pony" 04:37:21 Does "oh" stand for "overheard" or for the word "oh"? 04:38:28 'overheard' in this case 04:39:44 adjunctions are p. good 04:40:35 cool 04:40:55 oh: oh 04:43:05 /ignore is a bad solution to irc problems 04:45:04 did you say that in response to somebody i have /ignore'd? 04:45:22 no 04:46:35 "06:46 Ignoring ACTIONS TOPICS from is" 04:46:49 good move 04:47:03 is? 04:48:29 well that's what irssi responded to your fine command above 04:49:16 ah 04:58:50 @tell Taneb Fourier is what makes computer tomography work. I keep finding this amazing. 04:58:50 Consider it noted. 04:58:58 hm? 04:59:27 tomography is the future 04:59:36 (yestegraphy is the past) 05:00:06 oerjan: Chirplet transforms are where it's at hth 05:01:05 *chirp* 05:02:06 @tell Taneb *computed, apparently 05:02:07 Consider it noted. 05:09:39 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:20:38 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:23:40 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 05:47:33 Sgeo_: `olist tomorrow? 05:48:25 I estimate the probability of an `olist tomorrow to be in the range [0,1] 05:48:36 hth 05:51:32 we'd like a smaller range twh 05:52:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:53:27 (0,1) is probably reasonable and is a smaller range hth 05:53:39 thanks 05:54:02 Sgeo_: imo that range is no smaller hth 05:54:34 -!- Bike has joined. 05:55:45 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:58:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:02:06 I should sleep 06:03:44 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 06:03:47 Sure, if you're a coward. 06:27:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: See you next time.). 06:28:54 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:45:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:14:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:19:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:42:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:44:15 -!- augur has joined. 07:46:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:46:59 -!- augur has joined. 07:48:12 -!- augur_ has joined. 07:48:16 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:03 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:34:47 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:45:16 ion: Do you have Gobby? 08:48:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:11:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:11:32 Oh no! 09:11:37 Oh no! 09:12:11 Taneb: You should do ion's exercises with Mu and Nu. Learn about fixed points and things. 09:12:56 Remember how I said that I was going to read things from the Further Reading section of this book? 09:13:04 No. Which book? 09:13:21 It has no further reading section! 09:14:08 14:01 In Pursuit of the Unknown: 17 Equations That Changed the World by Ian Stewart 09:14:12 17 equations that changed the world by Ian Stewart 09:14:16 OK. 09:14:34 well, you could read other books instead 09:15:53 Although the book is cheating- chapter 11 has 4 equations 09:16:12 Are there 17 chapters? 09:16:19 Maybe only one of those 4 equations changed the world. 09:16:42 There are 17 chapters 09:17:06 It's the Maxwell equations 09:17:34 Oh. 09:17:46 Well, those didn't really change anything. They just described the world. 09:18:41 I think the title is using "changed"in a more metaphorical sense 09:19:28 Now, Newton sure did change the world. 09:19:51 If it hadn't been for that jerk inventing we'd still all be flying around. 09:20:25 s/w/gravity w/ 09:20:34 Newton got two chapters to himself! 09:21:17 see? jerk 09:21:41 Taneb: i think you _can_ write maxwell's equations as a single one with the appropriate 4-vector formulation. 09:22:00 oerjan, fair enough 09:22:50 Also, I reread the chapter on Fourier transforms and it seemed much nicer this time 09:25:29 shachaf: Yeah, i have gobby. 09:25:48 shachaf: no one is disputing that newton was a jerk hth 09:26:01 oerjan: did newton discover jerk 09:26:09 possible. 09:26:22 i doubt he discovered acceleration 09:26:35 no, galileo had that one down 09:26:47 ion: if you want we can go through things in it in gobby, if you haven't figured everything out by now 09:26:48 shachaf: The progress so far. No Nu NatF yet, no conversion between anything either. https://gist.github.com/ion1/5947427 09:27:30 shachaf: Thanks, i’ll ask you about that later. I’ll let my nephews do some minecrafting on my computer now. 09:27:39 Hmm, what's Blah? 09:28:06 I have no idea, but it let me define zero, succ' and toInt nicely in the end. :-P 09:28:26 And i was thinking perhaps i’d try to define the same functions for Nu as well. 09:28:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:29:55 I think you might be going down a misleading path. 09:29:59 Or, at least, an unusual path! 09:30:01 I bet 09:30:46 I’ll get some help from you when i come back, but now: nephews. :-) 09:30:48 Thanks 09:30:56 hi nephews 09:31:02 wait, you have nephews? 09:31:05 imo weird 09:36:12 Huh 09:36:43 Marconi developed radio on THIS VERY ISLAND!! 09:37:18 the island of ... hexham? 09:37:32 Wight 09:37:39 I am on holiday 09:38:47 hang on 09:38:50 something is weird about unicode 09:39:04 1F0AA PLAYING CARD TEN OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AB PLAYING CARD JACK OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AC PLAYING CARD KNIGHT OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AD PLAYING CARD QUEEN OF SPADES [] 09:39:04 1F0AE PLAYING CARD KING OF SPADES [] 09:39:14 is it just me or is there something... comissing 09:40:24 Oh, come on. That's an inequality, not an equation! 09:41:10 Taneb: an equation is nothing but an isomorphism in a poset category hth 09:41:19 dS>=0 09:42:15 shachaf: did you mean there are 56 and not 52? 09:48:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:50:35 shachaf: Ok, they had to leave already. I’m free. 09:50:52 oh 09:50:56 byephews 09:52:08 shachaf: Oh, it turns out they have a bit more time. Back to Minecraft. 09:52:35 hyephews 09:52:38 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nibling 09:57:37 -!- quintopia has joined. 10:00:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:02:08 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:05:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 10:14:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:17:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:41:03 shachaf: Ok, now they left the computer for real. 10:45:13 hion 10:47:30 hachaf 10:48:05 I haven't used gobby 0.5 before. 10:48:08 New protocol and everything. 10:49:22 hmm, does it have undo yet? 10:49:31 Apparently yes 10:50:01 Oh, undo is good. 10:51:03 unood 10:51:26 https://images.4chan.org/diy/src/1373067876565.jpg 10:52:48 Thinehq. “You didn't log in in the past six months to the AppDB. Please log in or your account will automatically be deleted in one month. http://appdb.winehq.org/account.php?sCmd=login” Because the SQL row takes so much disk space. 10:53:13 I wonder if that means my contributions would be deleted as well? 10:55:34 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:20:09 -!- itsy has joined. 11:36:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:38:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:01:11 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:06:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:22:14 -!- katla has joined. 12:32:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:10:58 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Emotebatch 13:10:59 help 13:11:04 does shubshub have a new name now 13:53:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:53:50 -!- heroux has joined. 13:54:06 -!- sacje has joined. 14:00:39 https://twitter.com/fisa_court 14:23:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:25:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:39:33 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:40:24 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 14:58:22 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 15:25:19 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:25:20 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:52:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:07:55 -!- surma has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:08:19 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:09:31 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:09:31 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:13:06 -!- ggherdov has joined. 16:15:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:29:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:30:53 shachaf: it's weird how the way you write a static method in Rust is you just don't have a parameter named 'self' 16:31:15 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:33:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting). 16:34:53 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 16:36:14 -!- ssue__ has joined. 16:37:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:37:03 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:42:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:48:34 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:50:15 -!- heroux has joined. 17:00:01 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:01:04 has anyone used digitalocean.com? seems like I could get twice the RAM and disk space and 1.5x the transfer for the same price I am paying for Linode now 17:01:09 which makes me a bit suspicious :P 17:02:03 since linode are famous enough that I've heard of them, it would make sense for them to be overpriced 17:03:24 I guess they don't have IPv6 and I would have to deal with US latency for IRC 17:04:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 17:05:21 -!- katla has joined. 17:05:51 Someone i know uses this. http://afterburst.com/unmetered-vps 17:06:37 hmm, that's less RAM than I have now and I think I've heard bad things about OpenVZ? 17:06:54 I'm using Tilaa these days, which I've probably mentioned. (But I'm not using it for anything, so I can't say all that much about it.) 17:06:56 I mean, I want to move off Linode partially because of the security issues, but I am lazy enough that I don't really want to do so for worse performance 17:07:18 fizzie: oh, I think I was going to look at them 17:08:20 fizzie: this is hard if you don't know how much a euro is 17:08:56 hi 17:09:19 fizzie: wow, 4 gigs of RAM for 17 pounds a month? this pricing is weird 17:10:14 :/ 17:10:27 hi katla 17:11:31 Oh, they've removed the traffic restrictions? 17:11:33 I didn't know that. 17:11:52 http://www.click2houston.com/news/kfc-threatens-lawsuit-over-hitler-chicken-restaurant/-/1735978/20875398/-/2clb8u/-/index.html 17:11:57 There used to be a quota for outgoing stuff. 17:12:20 ion: c.c 17:12:20 c.c.c 17:12:21 c.c 17:12:25 I'm using the extra-cheap 256M plan they've apparently stopped selling. 17:12:42 "-- since you just can't be very productive with just 256Mb of RAM or 10GB of disk space --" 17:12:50 Excuse me but I'm being very productive! 17:12:54 where are the servers? 17:13:03 Somewhere around Amsterdam. 17:13:20 (I'm thinking their pricing is because of DRUGZ.) 17:13:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:13:28 well I thought digitalocean sounded too good to be true but this seems rather implausibly cheap even by those standards 17:13:43 do they do IPv6? 17:13:47 Yes. 17:14:01 I wonder what the ping is like 17:14:08 About 42 17:14:19 apparently I have 35 ms ping to my server right now 17:14:26 but I remember it being as low as 15, maybe it's the wifi 17:14:30 or uh 17:14:31 You can try pinging eos.zem.fi too, I think it should answer. 17:14:36 no wait nevermind 17:14:43 my reason for thinking that thinking it's wifi made no sense made no sense 17:15:02 I have a latency of 1.28 ms to my server. 17:15:10 fizzie: hm, about 40 ms 17:15:15 that might be ok 17:15:21 fizzie: how about you let me run irssi on your server as a test :P 17:16:11 haha, and it only costs 51 pence extra a month to go from the storage I have now to doubling the storage, with tilaa 17:16:59 There was something slightly weird about the IPv6 stuff... as in, they configure a /96 network for each host, which is slightly iffy standards-wise -- you're not really supposed to have networks smaller than /64 -- but I guess that's not terribly important. (They also assign a single address out of a proper /64 for the server, so I don't use the optional /96.) 17:17:17 Oh, and the prices don't include VAT. 17:17:21 right, well 17:17:28 all I want is for esolangs.org to be accessible via IPv6 :P 17:17:35 (I think that wasn't shown very clearly.) 17:17:48 is this fancy dutch VAT, or 17:18:04 I don't quite recall how it goes, maybe I should look up the latest invoice. 17:19:13 There's a 21% VAT, which I think isn't any Finnish rate, so I suppose it's Dutch. 17:20:04 (So it's not *quite* as cheap as it might appear on the first glance. Unless you've got some kind of a corporation that can buy it VAT-free.) 17:20:12 okay so I would pay a pound extra to quadruple my RAM 17:20:14 that seems pretty good 17:21:17 idk 17:21:24 there might be a catch 17:21:43 well the catch is I have to use a VPS provider recommended to me by a speech recognition researcher 17:21:56 ouch 17:22:00 idk if that's worth it 17:22:31 ENLARGE YOUR RAM 400% TODAY 17:22:51 300%, kmc 17:22:53 300 17:23:00 need a VPS version of http://downloadmoreram.com 17:23:16 wget http://downloadmoreram.com/server.ram 17:23:16 whats up 17:23:43 ISS 17:24:11 Are you sure? It might be down. 17:25:18 http://iss.astroviewer.net/ says it's somewhere above the Atlantic Ocean at the moment. 17:25:21 I wonder if the image is to scale? http://www.isstracker.com/ 17:25:37 yeah, it's up 17:25:45 (i guess it's probably down wrt most of us) 17:26:23 oh kmc and maybe anyone else: I linked this to bike the other day but maybe you might like it too 17:26:25 ion: That's no moon! 17:26:26 http://wearedata.watchdogs.com/start.php?locale=en-EN&city=london 17:26:47 it's a watch_dogs-style visualization of london made entirely out of public data (tweets, traffic lights, demographic data, building locations, etc) 17:27:25 holy fucking camera controls 17:27:28 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti-. 17:27:39 fiora's such a corporate shill 17:27:41 -!- nortti- has changed nick to nortti. 17:27:50 yes I am actually paid by ubisoft to promote their games 17:27:52 XP 17:27:59 There seem to be .kmz files that put the ISS into Google Earth. 17:28:00 (but seriously the game looked really cool okay) 17:28:12 (As in, show it in the software; not files that ram the station to the Earth owned by Google.) 17:28:37 hello 17:28:38 thank you for that important clarification, fizzie 17:29:48 hi Fiora 17:29:52 hiii! 17:30:18 hope youre having a good day 17:30:59 um... I played some kingdom hearts and went to work so I guess it's okay so far 17:32:48 i like to imagine that at work you quickly switch between irc and kingdom hearts and your actual work whenever a manager walks by 17:33:05 With a BOSS KEY. 17:33:33 Back in the good old days, games had a BOSS KEY that switched from the game screen to some generic "boring spreadsheet and bar plots" screen. 17:33:41 Or at least one game did. 17:33:56 yeah, N has that too, mostly as a joke probably 17:33:57 I don't play kingdom hearts at work xD 17:34:19 uhhuh sure 17:34:24 -_- 17:34:32 http://www.switched.com/2010/03/08/cant-you-see-im-busy-game-cleverly-disguises-your-procrastin/ the first image is the craftiest. 17:34:43 playing game at work sounds like a good way to add tension & heighten the experience to a whole new level 17:35:08 the tension of being at work or the tension of playing a game 17:35:10 really, if you play it right, kingdom hearts is basically a horror game 17:35:55 elliott: the beauty is if you do it right they are one and the same 17:46:25 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 17:54:31 -!- katla has quit (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.). 17:55:44 -!- katla has joined. 17:56:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:57:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 18:06:10 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 18:06:17 -!- surma has joined. 18:07:10 -!- Zerker has joined. 18:15:25 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:21:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:25:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:47:08 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:07:35 -!- conehead has joined. 19:20:17 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:21:22 -!- asdfasd_ has joined. 19:21:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HhYE_ddtQ&feature=youtu.be 19:31:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:33:41 -!- myname has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:34:26 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:36:25 asdfasd_: you are GOMADWarrior right? 19:36:40 no 19:37:08 elliott@solidity:~/.irssi/logs/freenode/#esoteric$ grep 186.222.47.192 *.log 19:37:08 2013-07-07.log:00:18:42 9/-?/!9/-g ;/GOMADWarriorg 8/[g3/bade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.192g8/]g has joined c#esotericc 19:37:11 2013-07-07.log:00:38:43 9/-?/!9/-g 3/GOMADWarriorg 8/[gbade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.1928/]g has left c#esotericc 8/[g8/]g 19:37:14 2013-07-08.log:20:21:22 9/-?/!9/-g ;/asdfasd_g 8/[g3/bade2fc0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.222.47.192g8/]g has joined c#esotericc 19:37:17 asdfasd_: are you sure? 19:37:26 why? 19:37:28 that's also (a video of) the same game you've linked here several times in the past. 19:38:17 asdfasd_: well, because I figure you're using another name so people don't realise it's you, so you can continue using the channel solely to talk about irrelevant things that nobody has expressed any interest in (e.g. trolling other channels, which already got you banned once). your denial seems to confirm that 19:38:50 irrelevant? you're calling my game irrelevant? 19:38:52 if you have another plausible interpretation I'm open to considering it 19:40:02 well, it's certainly off-topic, which is of course not necessarily a blocker to talking about it in #esoteric. but the only time it has come up here has seemingly been in linking it out of the blue and asking random questions about it that nobody seems interested in 19:40:16 which wouldn't be a problem in itself, but combined with your other behaviour I find it a little dubious... 19:42:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:42:42 Hi 19:42:46 hi Taneb 19:44:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:45:06 asdfasd_: actually it seems you are still in the ban list as 189.34.44.144 so I guess you have just been ban evading for however long? 19:45:21 I'm not that guy 19:45:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:45:45 2013-06-24.log:07:21:47 ^D9/-^D?/!^D9/-^Dg ^D3/asdfasd^Dg is now known as ^D;/GOMADWarrior^Dg 19:45:48 yes you are 19:45:57 nope.. 19:45:57 and now you're doing it in other channels. 19:46:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:46:08 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*bade2fc0@*.186.222.47.192. 19:46:08 -!- elliott has kicked asdfasd_ asdfasd_. 19:46:16 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b GOMADWarrior*!*@*. 19:46:23 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:46:26 yaaaaaaaaay don't evade bans 19:46:33 Bike: I suppose I don't really have to ask what 19:46:42 oh I should ban this nick too I guess 19:46:49 asdfasd_ 19:46:54 even if another "asdfasd" might conceivably be innocent, whatever 19:46:55 what a name -_- 19:46:56 lolwhat 19:46:57 Hold on... elliott has op? 19:46:59 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:47:06 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b asdfasd!*@*. 19:47:08 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b asdfasd_!*@*. 19:47:09 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:47:18 Taneb: he took power in a recent coup 19:47:28 oh, you banned someone and he used webchat? clever ;) 19:47:37 didn't you notice oerjan's decaying corpse 19:47:48 Where does the term "Hamming distance" come from? 19:47:58 ham 19:48:07 Taneb: mathematicians who like to joke about binary vectors a lot 19:48:18 shachaf: so rust lets you do something like template specialization, e.g. struct ScriptView; struct Node { ... }; impl Node { ... } 19:48:19 Richard Hamming, I think 19:48:22 Taneb: kmc stole my reveal on that one 19:48:27 hamming's a cool guy. he has a lecture series on youtube. 19:48:28 for which I can never forgive him 19:48:35 talks about inventing coding theory and stuff. 19:48:44 Hamming windows, Hamming matrix, Hamming numbers, Hamming distance, Hamming bound, Hamming code 19:48:49 the methods defined in that 'impl' block will only be available for Node 19:48:51 Hamming name scheme 19:49:10 he's really hogging so many of these names in math and CS 19:49:10 Servo uses phantom types in this way to restrict what layout vs. JS can do to the DOM 19:49:13 p. cool 19:49:35 Bike I should watch that 19:49:40 i wonder if I can be bothered 19:49:51 I did not realise there was a mister Hamming 19:49:54 i dunno, i couldn't be. 19:50:04 too busy watching lewontin *biology solidarity* 19:50:25 god damn I just realised he has another name 19:50:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:50:30 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b Regis*!*@*. 19:50:32 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:50:36 imo, trolls should stick to one name. 19:51:07 katla: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30 19:51:18 i mean, also, i'd like never watch the AI ones :V 19:54:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:54:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:54:58 I do not know what happened there... 19:55:11 you pinged out 19:55:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:55:22 like pikhq 19:56:22 My phone turned itself off... 19:57:15 shachaf: what do you think of that 19:58:07 kmc: i don't understand what Node has to do with it there 19:58:12 or is it meant to be Node 19:59:33 View is a parameter and ScriptView is a specific instantiation 19:59:38 at least I think that's what's going on 19:59:51 just struct Node really 20:00:01 it's a phantom parameter anyway so it's not used in the body of the struct 20:00:39 oh 20:00:46 Rust scares 20:00:48 they should use lowercase type variables!! 20:00:49 Me 20:01:19 have you considered writing a horror story about rust 20:02:16 I exclusively write action-adventure 20:02:24 action-adventure-horror story about rust 20:02:30 ↑ 20:02:41 Maybe even "action-adventure-horror" isn't good enough. 20:06:26 oh 20:06:32 I didn't need to have that argument with gomadwarrior 20:06:47 since he literally linked it in #haskell 20:06:53 well I guess that was a few minutes into the argument 20:08:36 i just figuratively linked it in #esoteric 20:08:38 !! 20:09:43 set fire to flames 20:12:13 cooool http://lwn.net/Articles/452035/ Android lets you map memory and tell the kernel "hey i'm just using this for a cache, feel free to toss it if memory is tight" 20:12:38 huh, that's kind of cool 20:12:57 it makes sense because every program ever written has like 50 layers of caching 20:13:38 madvise didn’t let you do that? 20:13:59 I guess not. 20:14:05 well that wouldn't really be "advice" although iirc not all madvise thingies are 20:14:11 you'd need some way for the kernel to tell you "oh hey I threw away your memory" 20:14:23 like a callback 20:14:34 yeah, AshMem handles that with an ioctl that you call to "pin" and "un-pin" memory 20:15:01 so like, if you unpin it, it can disappear at any time? 20:15:12 Fiora: clearly you just catch SIGSEGV 20:15:16 when you try to access it 20:15:26 that... that sounds terrible XD 20:15:39 MADV_DONTNEED: Do not expect access in the near future. (For the time being, the application is finished with the given range, so the kernel can free resources associated with it.) Subsequent accesses of pages in this range will succeed, but will result either in reloading of the memory contents from the underlying mapped file (see mmap(2)) or zero-fill-on-demand pages for mappings without an 20:15:41 underlying file. 20:15:56 I think that's different from actually throwing it away, that involves paging it to disk, right? 20:16:08 Something like that but with slightly different semantics would probably work. 20:16:45 that makes sense 20:18:35 interesting 20:18:49 it does seem that in some use cases, you could just check for the page having been zeroeed 20:20:48 that feels like it might be dangerous... 20:20:58 like, let's say the kernel does a context switch in the middle of your cache access code 20:21:04 and when it comes back, the data is zeroed 20:21:07 yeah 20:21:15 and you can't, like, mutex the kernel 20:21:31 you would need to load the whole cache item into registers or non-disappearing memory, and then check if it's zero 20:21:42 so it would be hard to use correctly esp. with compiler optimizations 20:22:00 you'd need to load it atomically, 20:22:01 I think 20:22:03 fiora: Send a patch for lock_kernel(), unlock_kernel() to Linus. 20:22:09 mm 20:22:10 XD 20:22:28 iopl(3); asm("cli"); // problem solved 20:23:07 iopl? 20:24:37 it's a system call on x86 linux that gives a (root privileged) userspace program permission to access IO ports directly 20:24:59 which includes the ability to disable interrupts, for some reason 20:25:29 wow 20:25:34 does that require sudo? 20:25:48 “(root privileged)” 20:26:08 Well, now! CAP_SYS_RAWIO-privileged! 20:26:12 :) 20:26:30 That’s “root” privileged FSVO “root”. ;-) 20:26:47 imagining fizzie sitting in a corner waving a flag labelled "capabilities" while being ignored 20:26:54 yes there are two kinds of POSIX capabilities: the ones that are entirely useless and the ones that can be trivially escalated to root 20:27:20 anyway this system call is possible because the x86 has separate flag bits for IO privileges vs. memory/other privileges 20:27:33 which in theory means you can have, like, a microkernel in ring 0 and drivers in ring 1/2 and userspace in ring 3 20:27:38 in practice nobody does this ever 20:27:51 Hey now, OS/2. 20:27:54 what's the reason that nobody uses rings 1 and 2? 20:28:07 Does anyone still use OS/2? 20:28:10 It may be because, you should have a system call override interface, instead, it might help better than capabilities system in some cases. 20:28:15 Or BeOS? 20:28:52 Fiora: I think it's because most kernels are designed to be vaguely portable, and so they only use hardware features that are common across many architectures 20:28:59 I'm sure there are still people fiddling on Haiku. 20:29:07 Xen does use ring 1 for paravirt guest kernel, I believe 20:29:08 If that counts as being a BeOS user. 20:29:18 And OS/2 uses ring 2 for some privileged code. 20:29:20 kmc: ahhhh. so most architectures don't have an equivalent? 20:29:27 (i.e. just kernel and non-kernel code?) 20:29:29 right 20:30:31 same with x86 segmentation — it can be used to do some cool things, but there's no equivalent on other architectures 20:30:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:30:39 what surprises me about Haiku is that they like, do actual funding 20:30:43 that makes sense, especially given how insane itis 20:30:46 who is putting money into Haiku????? 20:30:52 does... does that mean you can't do, like, Native Client on ARM? 20:31:05 i think they have some other way to do NaCl things on ARM, maybe 20:31:23 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:31:29 They do have NaCl ports for non-i386. 20:31:50 You can't do the segmentation tricks on x86-64 while in long mode either, after all. 20:32:28 elliott: Google, apparently. 20:32:37 fizzie: but why 20:32:49 elliott: (They're in the $5000-$9999 bin of 2013's public-sponsors list.) 20:32:54 That's the harder question. 20:33:23 I’m reminded of AmigaOS’ Disable() for disabling interrupts and Forbid() for only disabling task scheduling. 20:34:07 now I'm remembering OSs class and writing mutexes by disabling interrrupts 20:34:12 and feeling like a very terrible person 20:35:03 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:35:35 420 disable interrupts everyday 20:35:53 -!- Jafet has joined. 20:39:03 * itsy was looking at the new Amiga at the weekend (and also the new MorphOS) 20:41:01 hmm, the logic behind IOPL controlling interrupts might be to synchronize io port access across threads 20:41:13 and pio stuff could have timing constraints that break if interrupts happen? 20:41:36 if nothing else, you could just use your io privileges to disable the interrupt controller 20:42:00 there's a new amiga? 20:43:36 olsner: well you can also have a bitmask of which io ports you're allowed to use 20:43:45 i don't remember the details but it's pretty janky 20:44:05 the port bitmap is quite straight-forward though 20:44:45 btw actual capabilities systems are cool and nothing like the travesty of POSIX capabilities 20:45:02 kmc: @ has them, therefore it is obvious that they are cool 20:45:09 it is trivial 20:48:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:56:21 -!- atriq has joined. 20:56:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:56:41 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 20:59:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:03:49 capabilities is like EROS, right 21:13:09 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:13:58 Like RAMAZZOTTI, right. 21:14:07 oh 21:16:46 > sequence [["FI", "RAMA"], ["ZZ"], ["IE", "OTTI"]] 21:16:47 [["FI","ZZ","IE"],["FI","ZZ","OTTI"],["RAMA","ZZ","IE"],["RAMA","ZZ","OTTI"]] 21:16:51 I don't think POSIX "caps" are entirely like "real" "caps" you'd find in something as fancy as a research OS. 21:17:02 > unwords . map join . sequence $ [["FI", "RAMA"], ["ZZ"], ["IE", "OTTI"]] 21:17:03 "FIZZIE FIZZOTTI RAMAZZIE RAMAZZOTTI" 21:18:29 Oh, that's my full name. 21:19:37 fizzie: I suspect they are entirely unlike those caps 21:24:27 -!- sacre has joined. 21:25:32 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:39:58 kmc: Hmm, I didn't know that. 21:40:41 til. 21:41:06 how goeschaf 21:42:57 hallo shachaf and kmc 21:43:40 hi Gracenotes 21:43:48 * kmc → bike → mozilla 21:44:06 it's nice being employed again 21:46:45 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:48:37 byeegan 22:07:01 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:08:54 ion: hion 22:09:41 I think the next exercises (kind of tricky) are to write inMu :: Functor f => f (Mu f) -> Mu f, outMu :: Functor f => Mu f -> f (Mu f), and the same for Nu. 22:09:46 Or maybe there are other exercises first. 22:10:18 Oh, there's a sort of exercise: Nu Maybe is "bigger" than Mu Maybe. Figure out a Nu Maybe value that isn't in Mu Maybe. 22:15:46 Define Mu and Nu and then we will see about that. 22:16:01 newtype Mu f = Mu { runMu :: forall r. (f r -> r) -> r } 22:16:08 data Nu x = forall x. Nu x (x -> f x) 22:16:36 data Fix f = Fix { runFix :: f (Fix f) } 22:16:44 s/data/newtype/ for that last one. 22:17:01 I think you mean Nu f instead of Nu x isn't it? 22:17:36 Er, yes. 22:17:45 That. 22:21:44 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:22:04 whats the diffrence :/ 22:22:18 :t Nu 22:22:19 Not in scope: data constructor `Nu' 22:22:29 shachaf: you gotta give a talk 22:22:33 it will be the best talk 22:22:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:26:15 what would i even talk about though 22:29:17 well, there was a whole article about type-level fix 22:29:22 Try to talk about impossible things. 22:29:36 basic things like data vs. codata 22:29:45 negative vs positive positions in types 22:30:06 naturals via Mu and Nu is not immediately intuitive 22:30:51 and, I suppose, the entire talk may well be about data vs. codata, and why it can be useful to separate them, even if Haskell doesn't (or is good to separate them? I don't know). 22:31:59 even though lists and colists are very similar, why you might use lists in one circumstance and colists in another 22:32:15 well maybe someone who actually knows about that should talk about it :'( 22:32:17 foldr vs unfoldr. 22:32:22 I don't really know much about it. 22:33:22 there was that interesting article about solving AST typing using fixpoint types 22:34:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:36:52 whats the difference between Nu and Mu 22:37:15 haskell syntax is way too complicated, everything should use GADT 22:39:03 yeah, GADT definitions of Mu and Nu might be nice 22:39:08 I can't do they kind of conversion myself 22:39:10 *that 22:40:54 Haskell syntax is complicated; they should make everything to use macros. 22:41:19 haskell syntax is complicated, they should make everything use semicolons 22:43:01 Glaswegian Algebraic Data Type 22:43:49 Haskell syntax is complicated; they should replace it with XML. 23:03:37 elliott: to answer your question about Servo's user agent: it doesn't have one 23:03:49 cutting the gordian knot as it were 23:04:04 kmc: does it just not send one 23:04:07 it just sends "GET / HTTP/1.0\r\nHost: example.com\r\n\r\n" 23:04:10 HTTP/1.0 [sic] 23:04:20 won't that get it filtered a ton 23:04:24 probably 23:04:41 on the other hand it will get through Gogo Inflight Wifi paywall! (sort of) 23:04:57 how do those paywalls work? 23:05:02 anyway I'll worry about that after I get it to run without crashing 23:05:13 I'm kind of curious, I've always wondered 23:05:19 there are lots of different kinds 23:05:37 oh there's a ksplice blog post about this!!! 23:05:51 https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/coffee_shop_internet_access 23:06:21 by Jessica McKellar who is pretty cool 23:06:26 more recently she wrote a book about Twisted 23:06:31 * Fiora reads! 23:06:34 the python network framework thingy 23:06:49 ksplice blog is very cool 23:07:00 although they deleted some entries when they got acquired by Oracle, I think :( 23:07:08 or at least didn't restore all of them 23:07:20 yeah they've been slowly reimporting them to the new blog engine 23:07:24 I think they're mostly/all up now? 23:07:33 I didn't hear of anything being censored by The Man 23:08:25 oh, okay, good... unlike when OKCupid was acquired. 23:08:30 yeah lololol 23:08:39 they had to remove all the posts about how their acquirer was bad 23:08:47 Fiora: I believe the Gogo one does a combination of IP based filtering, and HTTP Host: header based filtering for certain IPs that they allow pre-payment 23:09:17 and the latter includes some Google servers, so you can run your own proxy on Google App Engine and evade the filter that way, if you just don't send Host: 23:09:23 still, that is a form of censorship, temporarily withholding info 23:09:31 and also a form of time constraints 23:09:56 that is really cool! what would happen though if you tried to use https instead of http? would it be able to redirect you? 23:10:27 Gracenotes: only if deliberate 23:10:39 they just didn't have time to import everything into oracle's shit-tastic blog software 23:10:54 Fiora: generally no 23:11:54 lucky for captive portal operators (and attackers), users ~never type "https://" themselves 23:12:02 I don't know how it's supposed to work in the HSTS world, though 23:12:18 @google operator plays a little ping pong 23:12:19 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBU4Py5cPg 23:12:19 Title: Operator Plays A Little Ping Pong - YouTube 23:12:29 same 23:17:46 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:31:09 * kmc currently watching https://github.com/mozilla/servo/wiki/Videos-and-presentations 23:34:05 is Servo the best? 23:34:34 not yet ;P 23:34:45 hasn't gotten the kmc touch 23:35:45 lol 23:37:23 "yo peeps i found a security hole, the jit we use for fast gif rendering can be used with that css overflow to execute arbitrary assembly code, as long as it looks like Spanish text" 23:38:52 yo, it's bullshit that I have to be logged in to access https://air.mozilla.org/fireside-chat-3/ 23:39:18 for real 23:40:30 I ain't got time to make accounts or acquire access 23:42:28 get a job at mozilla then 23:45:04 no way man 23:45:08 you have to liberate the data 23:45:18 data wants to be free! 23:45:40 codata wants to be cofree 23:51:38 * copumpkin moos 23:52:46 cowpumpkin 23:53:11 copyonwritepumpkin 23:54:15 hi 23:54:25 cohi 23:55:56 elliott: fun fact: Servo parses images using stb_image.c which the author explicitly says is not for untrusted images (and the Servo team is aware of this, too) 23:56:03 im not interestd in this stupid prorgamming language shit5 23:57:09 what kind of exploits can you hide in image metadata anyway 23:57:28 buffer overflows are common in image parsers 23:57:33 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms04-028 23:57:36 like that one? 23:58:14 speaking of image parsers someone emailed me and wants me to make my gif thing good instead of bad :'( 23:59:09 cool 23:59:10 do they have code 23:59:32 right, programming well is clearly impossible 2013-07-09: 00:00:05 Image formats tend to be designed in a way I can only describe as "malicious". 00:01:01 parsers in general are hard to get right 00:01:18 pikhq: Well, some of them are, anyways. There might be better ones too, possibly. 00:01:19 And DEFLATE is terribad. 00:01:22 especially when you're writing them in fucking C 00:01:34 yess. 00:01:38 shachaf: what's bad about your gif thing? 00:02:11 The language of all gifs, for instance, is likely context-sensitive, and I'm sure many other formats are Turing-complete. 00:02:13 Especially as used in PNG. Gotta love using multiple endiannesses! 00:02:28 Hello there, Microsoft Office macros 00:02:29 agh. 00:02:30 And two checksums. (sigh) 00:03:23 mmmmm i have to make an xml based bitmap image format 00:03:38 nooodl_: I think someone already did that. 00:03:49 00:03:55 And shit, even BMP is friggin' awful. 00:04:27 pbm: the only good image file format 00:04:39 Yup. 00:04:42 BMP is pretty straightforward, if you use it in the way you'd expect 00:04:53 namely, standing on your head. 00:04:58 Yes, I looked and I can see it isn't very good, and it could be improved. PBM is pretty good if you don't need compressed, but even with PBM, it uses ASCII numbers even when using binary PBMs, which doesn't make a lot of sense. 00:05:12 er, also without any extensions or weird flags, etc. 00:05:14 what about xbm!! 00:05:26 kmc: well, it's mostly just really slow and stupid about things 00:05:41 fizzie, ping 00:05:41 i bet it could be improved by ""orders of magnitude" 00:05:41 anyway, the best lossy formats involve lots of analysis of human vision. 00:05:44 wow xbm is source that's right 00:05:46 imo that rules 00:05:48 zzo38: Yeah, I'm not too fond of that bit. Though it still beats most other stuff a lot. 00:06:02 -!- katla has quit (Quit: katla has no reason). 00:06:12 i'd never use binary pbms 00:06:17 pikhq: Yes, I agree. 00:06:28 Gracenotes: BMP is practically made of weird features. 00:06:40 Text PBM format can be processed by TeX macros, though. 00:06:40 pbm has always been "that easily readable/writable ascii image file format" for me 00:06:57 So I was trying to make a panorama, when somehow THIS happened: http://db.tt/LhfMRoNz 00:07:00 nooodl_: Binary PBM is equally easy to read/write FWIW. 00:07:06 not by humans 00:07:07 I think it took all images and put them on top of each other 00:07:12 Maybe 00:07:12 Well no. 00:07:38 It looks surrealistic 00:08:00 obligatory, also, http://notanumber.net/archives/54/underhanded-c-the-leaky-redaction 00:08:02 binary pbm is the best 00:08:21 fizzie, I can't get that panorama to render properly, it looks just fine in hugin's preview window. 00:08:28 that's a great panorama 00:09:09 Vorpal: http://img.funtasticus.com/2008/nov/050813Panorama/Bad%20Panorama%201.jpg you've seen the panoramas of hell i hope 00:09:27 sec 00:09:32 ouch 00:09:39 http://img.funtasticus.com/2008/nov/050813Panorama/Bad%20Panorama%2011.jpg ready to run 00:09:51 nice 00:10:11 and of course the classic http://img.funtasticus.com/2008/nov/050813Panorama/Bad%20Panorama%206.jpg doge 00:10:18 Bike, Those things can at least be fixed by masking out one version. 00:11:32 i love doge 00:11:48 Bike, in my case it is just the program going crazy. It looks perfect in the preview window. And it in the remapped images. But in the final blended result it just discards the position information it seems 00:11:54 never had that happen before 00:11:57 really really strange 00:12:24 http://i.imgur.com/0I1KrqT.png :| 00:12:57 Bike, also that "mountain" in my picture doesn't exist 00:13:26 I THINK it may be part of the ground from the 360 spherical panorama 00:13:36 But it doesn't quite match the texture 00:14:45 Also the flag is mirrored, it was blowing the other way in the source image... 00:15:23 Sgeo_: No `olist today so far. 00:16:30 Hmmm.... I actually upgraded the panorama program recently. Maybe that broke it. Worth trying on a computer that still has an older version. Except that computer doesn't have nearly enough RAM to deal with this project... 00:17:09 I give up, I'll try something else tomorrow, good night 00:17:54 katla left again :( 00:17:59 has no reason 00:18:18 do any of us have reason 00:18:29 not I, certainly 00:18:54 oddly enough, in many latin languages, the expression "to have reason" is "to be right" 00:19:10 that's odd? 00:19:15 also does that mean romance languages or what 00:19:22 yes, that's what I meant 00:19:26 today my reason is fava beans 00:19:32 k 00:19:45 I think it's odd, yeah 00:19:51 mainly on The Internet i've gotten used to people using "rational" to mean "whatever i, the speaker, am thinking" 00:20:12 the other use of rational on the internet 00:20:16 is rationale 00:20:22 but misspelled 00:21:47 rational is from first principles, rather than just from assumptions 00:21:58 first principles are also from assumptions. 00:21:58 I,I from first assumptions 00:22:02 yeah yeah 00:24:30 rational means acting as though maximizing an unbiased estimate of some function obeying the axioms of a utility function 00:24:33 clearly 00:25:05 I thought rational meant it could be expressed as p/q, where p and q are integers 00:25:38 5/0. yo. 00:25:44 and q isn't zero >_< 00:26:08 oh that reminds me, i was thinking about the polynomial thing again (without checking knuth, just, my own silly thinking) 00:26:09 imo there's nothing very rational about the number 2/3 00:26:34 you're wrong 00:26:51 Seems like a ratio to me. 00:26:56 figured something easy but kinda cool, if you want to evaluate say x² + 2x + 1 you can rewrite that as (x+1)², so one multiplication and one add instead of two adds and two multiplications 00:27:05 unfortunately that involves rootfinding... 00:27:44 algebraic numbers are roots, man. 00:27:52 for sure 00:28:46 yeah but finding them is annoying and all. 00:28:56 tied up mathematics for like. three hundred years. 00:29:06 also they're kind of rubbish to represent with floats anyway so that's probably not good. 00:29:09 also sometimes they're imaginary. 00:29:17 I guess the problem is kind of complex 00:29:23 no 00:29:58 Floats are generally rubbish though. 00:30:27 Actually, really, representing floats base 10 is rubbish. 00:30:51 hmm in unary you only have rational numbers even if you invent a "." equivalent 00:30:52 er, who does that. 00:31:11 Bike: Most languages use base 10 for float literals. 00:31:21 Oh. Right. I was thinking for coomputation. 00:31:22 "0.1" is a very, very misleading literal. 00:31:30 0.5 less so 00:31:32 it's pretty hilarious how hard reading floats is, yeah. 00:31:58 let's use CReals for everything 00:32:08 @quote CReal 00:32:08 CReal says: cos(2/3*pi) :: CReal 00:32:16 * pikhq prefers hex floats 00:32:19 huh 00:32:22 Just on principle. 00:32:22 > cos(2/3*pi) :: CReal 00:32:23 -0.5 00:32:24 well, for rootfinding it would be easier to just use algebraics. 00:32:56 > cos(1/3*pi) :: CReal 00:32:57 0.5 00:33:16 "easier" 00:34:44 other rootfinding could happen too though. like you can turn any (>deg1) polynomial into a homogenuous poly of the same degree but you need to know its roots. also it's probably pointless and i'm pointless. 00:35:16 wait, not homogenouous. ugh. 00:35:18 ououououous 00:35:48 yuouou just need to get back to your roots 00:47:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:47 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:59:07 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:03:52 > 1000/51 01:03:54 19.607843137254903 01:12:32 -!- madbr has joined. 01:14:12 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:20:50 this book cites "Darwin 1859" and "Darwin 1872". 01:21:06 isn't that... normally how you cite people 01:21:31 yeah but it's darwin. 01:21:42 origin o' species 01:23:41 and also http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1227/1227-h/images/fig18.jpg 01:23:55 Fuck Samba 01:24:00 This should really not be difficult 01:25:11 that chimp doesn't look disappointed and sulky 01:25:23 it looks... parochial 01:25:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:26:57 i'm not sure what 'parochial' means in the context of chimp lips, but yeah i don't see how it's sulky either. 01:27:27 * oerjan is tempted to `addquote that. 01:28:10 except the last part sort of doesn't work. 01:34:08 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:36:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:37:35 1F0AC PLAYING CARD KNIGHT OF SPADES [] <-- hm that's apparently in tarot decks... 01:38:08 to a norwegian this is extra confusing since en:jack =no:knekt, usually... 01:38:20 which is obviously cognate to knight 01:40:44 @tell Taneb Clearly electromagnetism is a sham and radios are really powered by wights. 01:40:45 Consider it noted. 01:44:31 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nibling <-- this is the second time in my life i see this word, and the first time was just days ago. 01:46:55 hm i think it was in a r/askhistory discussion about what would happen if a king (of england, mostly) was homosexual. 01:47:42 *an 01:47:43 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:48:00 assuming he avoided hot pokers and stuff 01:51:22 there seem to be multiple historical cases? 01:51:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_VI_and_I "Throughout his life James had close relationships with male courtiers, which has caused debate among historians about their nature." 01:51:39 yeah i as gonna say, a secret gay noble is not really shocking 01:51:40 "... his sexuality has long been a matter of debate. He clearly preferred the company of handsome young men. The evidence of his correspondence and contemporary accounts have led some historians to conclude that the king was homosexual or bisexual." 01:52:02 wow, he was james six and james one at the same time. 01:52:05 that's pretty artful. 01:54:50 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:55:00 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1hsfjs/what_is_the_protocol_for_if_an_heir_to_the/ it was 01:56:53 i don't know why succession is an issue, plenty of monarchs have died without issue 01:57:00 like.... james i's predecessor elizabeth................. 01:57:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_II_of_England 01:57:22 "While Edward fathered at least five children by two women, he was rumoured to have been bisexual. His inability to deny even the most grandiose favours to his unpopular male favourites (first a Gascon knight named Piers Gaveston, later a young English lord named Hugh Despenser) led to constant political unrest and his eventual deposition." 01:58:20 the son of william the conquerer was apparently gay too 01:58:40 oh, and Richard the Lionheart 01:58:44 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:58:48 "Is it actually healthier to go braless?" r/askscience's biology is a bit disappointing 01:58:54 with a name like hugh despenser you cannot go wrong 01:58:57 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:59:02 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:00:35 "If you jumped from the golden gate bridge and then changed your mind, would trying to break the surface tension before landing be of any use?" ggggh 02:00:55 isn't that a pretty common one 02:01:13 honestly I'd be vaguely curious about the bra one but reddit 02:01:34 Bike: "no" hth 02:01:46 there are 3 replies and one of them is just explaining that the question is confused 02:01:56 er, *the best one 02:02:38 Fiora: try wearing a unibra for a while and see which breast is healthier afterwards, obviously 02:02:51 that sounds monumentally uncomfortable 02:03:10 we must make sacrifices for science, and by we i mean you 02:03:11 for a minute i thought that was a thing 02:03:20 i guess it'd be like a giant eyepatch 02:03:28 I don't think that can possibly work 02:03:35 we must find a way 02:03:50 i'm thinking sharpened hooks 02:04:02 * Fiora winces 02:04:20 i'm not sure hooks have ever gone well in clothing 02:04:29 haven't you ever seen Hellraiser 02:04:31 no fashion sense, imo 02:04:40 i have not seen hellraiser 02:04:55 also: what about captain hook, he seemed to pull it off 02:05:27 hands aren't clothes! 02:05:35 or bras 02:05:47 also the aim here is science, not fashion 02:06:20 fashion is a sciencne! 02:06:26 oerjan: The first time I saw it was also days ago. 02:06:30 the science... of beauty! 02:06:40 the science... of not jamming hooks into yourself! 02:06:42 * Fiora waves her hair, holds up a redken shampoo bottle 02:06:43 oerjan: Someone sent me a link. I assume the occurrences are related. 02:06:57 * Bike waves his hair, holds up bloodied surgical implements 02:07:09 er, *the best one <-- let me guess, that one has already been deleted? 02:09:18 shachaf: maybe there's a source somewhere 02:10:38 oerjan: The person who mentioned it to me linked to http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1hgkwp/til_the_plural_genderneutral_term_for_nieces_and/ 02:10:45 oerjan: I assume it's all related to that. 02:11:06 yay, research! 02:11:25 Half a cheer for oerjan! Hip hip -- hoo! 02:11:43 hoo, the new hip 02:12:11 * Bike looks at TIL, finds annoying psychologytoday link half a page down 02:13:00 Bike: why would you look at reddit "r u crazy" 02:14:25 hey r/askhistory is nice. and addictive. 02:15:14 reddit.com/r/u/crazy/ 02:16:24 http://www.reddit.com/user/crazy is sadly empty. but existing. 02:16:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:18:55 http://www.reddit.com/r/crazy looks slightly healthier. 02:20:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:27:31 shachaf: also, the niblings thread, not a linguist in the bunch 02:27:50 why would you read the thread hth 02:28:00 Gracenotes: today the cookie place had a short line so i went there 02:28:32 why would you ask a rhetoric question hth 02:28:44 Gracenotes: that's r/todayilearned/ not a science subreddit hth 02:28:47 the ridiculous ice cream place? 02:28:50 yes 02:29:16 was it super? 02:29:46 it was enjoyable but not stand-in-line-for-half-an-hour good 02:30:07 maybe you'd think it was better is you stood in line for half an hour 02:30:10 *if 02:30:20 green mouse and telephone ice cream 02:31:03 Gracenotes: probably 02:31:19 -!- scyrmion has joined. 02:31:42 you have to stand in line until you're really hungry, you see 02:32:26 `relcome scyrmion 02:32:29 ​scyrmion: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:32:38 hello. 02:32:44 hi scyrmion 02:32:47 welcome home 02:32:53 I wandered in from the wiki. 02:33:22 me too 02:33:31 then I ended up hosting it :( 02:34:23 ugh that always happens 02:35:36 kmc: what was the thing people don't like in Rust? 02:36:00 I'm trying to experement with some ideas of compression algorithms that search for a program that is able to produce the original output. 02:36:02 lots of things 02:36:06 can you be more specific 02:36:11 Gracenotes: the thing where all your iron disintegrates after a while 02:36:14 that thing is p. bad 02:36:15 about memory management 02:36:18 and boxes 02:36:24 moo 02:36:26 rust is all about the boxes 02:36:41 copumpkin: imo be more dutch hth 02:36:48 well they're getting rid of managed mutable boxes maybe 02:36:57 that's the one place where the borrow checker has a run-time check 02:37:06 boo 02:37:10 thx 02:37:17 is that what cows say in .nl 02:37:25 boo.nl 02:37:28 kmc: what is the difference between @ pointers and managed mutable boxes? 02:37:37 it's @ versus @mut 02:37:52 why did they name those after an OS 02:37:59 oh, that sounds freaky 02:38:26 kmc: are they going to get rid of @ 02:38:37 don't think so, blog post notwithstanding 02:38:53 if so how will @fn works 02:39:09 boo.ts 02:39:19 the funny thing is @ isn't garbage collected yet, just refcounted, and there's already a library type Rc that is refcounted and way faster 02:39:32 Wait, there's no actual GC? 02:39:53 correct; if you have cycles they don't go away until the thread ends 02:40:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:40:23 shachaf: I'm told that @ and @fn don't have much in common implementation-wise; similarly ~ and ~fn and ~[] 02:40:34 rust is a bit 02:40:35 "weird" 02:40:42 it seems like all of rust's boxes and things is a lot to keep in mind 02:40:49 also there are secretly two kinds of ~: those which point to managed boxes somewhere and those which don't 02:40:52 shachaf: yup 02:41:04 are they sure firefox can't deal with being fully GC'd 02:41:10 what would you know, there is no .ts domain 02:41:12 there are some pretty wacky advanced GCs 02:41:42 if your ~ contains managed stuff then it has a header which links it into a list of all managed stuff, for use by the thread-exit cycle collector (?) 02:41:53 but if it doesn't then it has no header (as of, like, today) 02:41:55 (that's the reason rust has all this memory stuff right) 02:42:07 hmm 02:42:08 elliott: i don't know man 02:42:46 you're meant to be the expert! 02:43:03 elliott: well i'm kind of glad someoneis doing "all this memory stuff" 02:43:15 seems like it has its place, whether or not firefox is that place 02:43:44 its place is: outside of my head 02:43:55 shachaf: yeah 02:44:28 it's kind of odd how a lot of languages are "all about things that" look like existentials, but don't really have actual existentials 02:44:44 depending on who you ask Servo is either "definitely going to be the new browser one day" or "a research platform for playing around with different ideas" 02:45:06 as in struct Foo { x: A, f: fn(y: A) -> int } with A existential instead of universal 02:45:19 i wonder if they will rebrand 02:46:09 ? 02:46:09 `seen ion 02:46:13 2013-07-08 21:17:02: > unwords . map join . sequence $ [["FI", "RAMA"], ["ZZ"], ["IE", "OTTI"]] 02:46:27 feature request: add "so and so many times ago" to `seen 02:46:46 like, i've seen him four thousand times? 02:47:02 ago 02:47:05 kmc: who was the ? to 02:47:09 as in 02:47:10 you re: rebrand 02:47:11 hourz 02:47:18 kmc: like if servo ever becomes the mozilla browser 02:47:24 shouldn't be that hard, just subtract timestamps 02:47:30 would they call it firefox or not (of course nobody knows) 02:47:34 you mean will they call the browser "servo" 02:47:35 yeah probably not 02:47:44 will they call servo gecko 02:47:46 it's replacing "gecko" sort of 02:47:48 right 02:47:50 probably not 02:48:02 will they just give up and use webkit 02:48:07 they won't call it servo surely 02:48:12 servo is architecturally very different from gecko, even aside from being in a different language 02:48:16 but they might call it mozilla shinynewbrowser or whatever 02:48:22 shachaf: "webkit will outlive the human race" 02:48:27 i say that about C sometimes 02:48:54 mozilla softkitten 02:49:06 i can't wait for programming to be three hundred years old so people can read the equivalent of alien victorian biology books 02:49:06 +kmc: what does that mean? The singularity will be in C? 02:49:35 possibly 02:49:39 Mozilla is developing the Browser of Theseus 02:49:47 Bike: but today nobody reads the books written even 30 years ago 02:49:52 the singularity will be in notareallanguagese 02:49:59 the singularity will not be televised 02:50:06 kmc: well when i say "people" i mean weird people like me 02:50:12 i am actually reading a thirty year old book right now. 02:50:38 or knuth. knuth is also pretty weird 02:51:36 and i read biology books old enough to predate evolutionary theory, and they're great. 02:52:30 Rust looks highly complicated, like it was a very nice language and then making it consistent/useful involved making an exception somewhere, then making an exception within that, etc. 02:52:30 there are too many languages in the wiki that only print "Hello world!"... and a large obsession with the 99 bottles of beer lyrics. 02:52:33 ur pretty weird imo 02:52:43 yus. 02:53:08 Or maybe I'm just trying too hard to read into its design philosophy. nicer than C++, anyweh. 02:53:42 > 11 Appendix: Rationales and design tradeoffs 02:53:43 > TODO. 02:54:18 nice 02:54:19 #1 problem with rust is still those dang braces, sorry 02:54:55 #1 problem with rust is h8rs 02:55:01 h8rs lyk u 02:56:04 Gracenotes: yeah that's the best 02:56:10 why can't everyone just get along and sing songs together and program COBOL 02:56:28 Gracenotes: yes, it does have a bit of that "everything stuck together just so bursting at the seams" feel, like C++, but better 02:57:16 providing fine-grained control of allocation in a memory-safe way is *hard* 02:57:20 > rust run h8.rs 02:57:36 kmc: imo get :t into the repl hth 02:57:42 afaik Rust is the only language even attempting it that has even a chance of being more than an academic project 02:57:48 also make the repl fast instead of slow :'( 02:57:50 yeah 02:57:57 everyone knows the repl sucks ok 02:58:04 on my machine it just crashes 02:58:13 haha. 02:58:24 make an IRC bot that runs arbitrary Rust code. that's the fastest way to mainstream adoption. 02:58:24 there are supposed to be some recent improvements to LLVM's JIT that will help? 02:58:28 Gracenotes: they have that 02:58:35 why isn't it here? 02:58:38 in #rust on irc.mozilla.org 02:58:48 -!- sacre has quit (Quit: sacre). 02:59:07 LLVM has a JIT? 02:59:08 kmc: But I haven't seen any Fibonacci sequences in #rust. 02:59:10 yes 02:59:13 not a fancy one 02:59:15 The bot is clearly defective. 02:59:20 I remember I made the first bot that ran (somewhat) arbitrary Go code 02:59:23 i think it just compiles and loads your code in a big block 02:59:27 Then I stopped doing anything with Go ever 02:59:30 not like tracing and optimizing it 02:59:38 so it's slow to start up *and* produces slow code 02:59:45 the best of both worlds 02:59:51 part of the point of tracing JITs isn't just that they produce good code but they start up quickly 03:00:06 eh 03:00:08 EH 03:00:28 i think there is room in the world for a tracing jit that produces great code using all sorts of runtime information but starts up slowly 03:00:36 yes 03:00:40 that's called java -server 03:00:42 i think 03:00:53 i hear hotspot is "p. crazy" 03:00:56 yup 03:01:40 "Always one more than you can handle," the water replied. "That's standard operating procedure." 03:02:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_killer_whale 03:02:14 that's "p. crassidens" if you ask me 03:02:17 Gracenotes: That sounds like an exciting logic! 03:02:32 data Bool = True | False | FalseKillerWhale 03:02:33 Gracenotes: ... 03:02:37 Gracenotes: can I kick you for that. 03:02:46 i did a report on false killer whales in middle school! 03:02:49 kick yes, kickban no. 03:02:52 deal 03:02:54 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 03:02:55 so, as a p. crassidens expert, yes you can kick Gracenotes for that 03:02:57 -!- elliott has kicked Gracenotes Gracenotes. 03:02:58 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:02:59 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 03:03:08 wow it ruins my immersion when you join before I can even deop 03:03:11 :'| 03:03:19 I was "into it" 03:03:20 elliott is abusing his op powers 03:03:32 uh I got consent. 03:03:39 no you didn't 03:03:52 well, i didn't read it as such 03:03:58 04:02:49 kick yes, kickban no. 03:04:00 * Gracenotes is making some soup later. you can all have it if you come by. 03:04:07 man it must be depressing to be a species literally named for not being some other species 03:04:09 what kind of soup 03:04:20 what kinda aspirations can a false killer whale have 03:04:26 true killer whale 03:04:27 hth 03:04:30 elliott: at least their name is like, unrepetitive, mister homo sapiens sapiens 03:04:37 like, uh, sausage, jalapenos, something. probably spinach and shallots too. 03:04:44 sounds good. 03:04:47 oh, not even vegetarian soup 03:04:57 sounds great 03:04:58 what kinda sausage 03:05:09 AND BEEF STOCK 03:05:17 Gracenotes> why can't everyone just get along and sing songs together and program COBOL <-- COBOL camp? 03:05:19 bœuf 03:05:34 generic 'smoked' sausage. 03:06:09 would kmc smoke a sausage 03:06:10 (drugz joke) 03:06:37 are you sure it's not a dongz joke 03:06:44 anyway the answer is "yes" either way 03:06:58 mplayer http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Fr-Paris--b%C5%93uf.ogg 03:07:22 yes, hopefully the smoking strategy for either is different 03:07:26 yes 03:07:45 imo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpe_KHDEfgw 03:08:16 kmc: i realised it could be a dongz joke afterwards 03:10:43 * kmc → out 03:11:14 kmc: go to la discothèque on your way home 03:11:22 or, le. whatever. 03:11:49 cultural fidelity 03:12:15 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:14:13 it's not discotech, isn't it, even though that's how i think of it 03:14:18 like a cyborg with a disco ball laser 03:26:29 man, rewatching SG-1. I'd forgotton how good Heroes is 03:33:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:33:37 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:43:06 hardly anything was said while i was out :/ 03:43:34 well we thought you wwere ging to be gone longer! 03:43:37 we were charging up. 03:43:48 you saved up all your witty banter? how considerate 03:43:49 <3 03:43:55 nyaa! 03:44:05 -!- kmc has set topic: <3 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 03:44:22 ♥ 03:44:24 ♡ 03:44:25 I could easily run a VM more powerful than my old computer 03:44:29 This is kind of getting weir 03:44:31 weird 03:44:57 soon, sgeo will be sucked into an unending hole of VMs, like that one cyberiad story that was pretty cool imo. 03:45:17 Cascade easily fits on the screen! 04:07:05 -!- scyrmion has left. 04:07:28 http://img.funtasticus.com/2008/nov/050813Panorama/Bad%20Panorama%2011.jpg ready to run <-- omfg 04:31:48 Sgeo: maybe it *is* getting kind of weir! 04:34:02 weirwolf: a dam that turns into a wolf 04:34:11 hehehe 04:38:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:46:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:47:24 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:06:32 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:15:09 hi zzo38, what are you up to this evening 05:16:16 Maybe if I don't get as much sleep deprivation I won't feel sick tomorrow 05:17:40 man, who said x86 was a bad architecture... the RISC architectures are better but for everything else I have my doubts 05:17:43 kmc: I don't know yet. 05:18:01 madbr: It wasn't as bad when it was first invented as it is now 05:18:52 I'm looking at the 68k and I'm not convinced that it's better than x86 05:19:40 You might be correct, but, I don't know 68k 05:20:49 all the other 8bit instruction sets from about that time were worse than x86 and have accordingly died horribly 05:20:58 (6502, z80, etc) 05:22:13 That may have been true at the time, but not anymore. 05:23:18 Most vliw architectures have also bombed 05:23:44 (or at least the general purpose ones) 05:24:02 hi madbr 05:24:08 hi 05:25:33 Sgeo: good plan hth 05:30:14 68k is even more CISC than x86 imho 05:31:37 do you consider the baroque system of segmentation / interrupt handling / hardware task switching / etc. on x86 to be part of what makes it CISC? 05:32:04 it does seem like RISC architectures tried also to simplify memory management and privilege separation 05:32:07 complex everythingbutinstruction set computer 05:32:56 kmc: oh, forgot about real mode 05:32:58 hm 05:33:09 what about real mode? 05:33:27 segmentation is used in real mode 05:33:43 segmentation in protected mode is vastly more complicated 05:34:09 and you're required to use it to some degree 05:34:21 most OSes try to avoid doing anything more than the bare minimum, though 05:34:25 true but is it less complicated that other similar CPUs with MMUs and paging? 05:34:48 no, I think it's a lot more complicated 05:35:12 a lot of architectures do only paging 05:35:25 i forgot that the MMU for 68k was an external chip o_O 05:35:52 hm that's "kind of weird" 05:36:15 looks pretty complicated too 05:36:32 "Wide Selection of Page Sizes from 256 Bytes to 32K Bytes" 05:37:20 and a hard filled TLB 05:38:15 Doesn't the x86 also have an extra cycle penalty if your segmentation stuff has an offset?¨ 05:38:23 and it has a 3 bit TLB tag!! 05:38:31 madbr: wouldn't be surprised 05:38:43 like it has to do an extra addition 05:38:48 the subset of x86 features that people use and the subset of x86 features that have fast paths in the chip have co-evolved 05:38:58 so you should leave it at 0 05:39:13 true 05:39:51 a segment with offset 0 and limit 3GB is useful for safe access to userspace memory from within a 32-bit kernel 05:39:57 also I think they're close to the limit where if they have to do an extra real addition they have to add an extra real life because the clock rate is so high 05:40:00 but you can't do the analogous thing in long mode :/ 05:40:11 *an extra real life cycle 05:40:25 * kmc waves to Fiora 05:41:25 Fiora is a fan of two-cycle things 05:41:30 (well, aren't we all) 05:41:41 nyaa? 05:41:44 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 05:41:56 * Fiora sleepily paws around 05:42:18 paws are for kittens :3 05:43:04 and for spin-lock loops! 05:43:12 also the 68851 MMU is only for the 68020 and earlier, the later chips have other MMUs onboard 05:43:26 intel recommends using paws to avoid performance penalties! 05:43:29 Modern x86 is really complicated and so is modern ARM 05:43:50 Fiora: *groan* 05:44:03 modern arm is complicated because of all the useful things they put in :D 05:44:16 water doesn't have much nutrients and that's why it's so cheap 05:44:25 If addition is slow then can you use other operation such as XOR? 05:44:47 kmc: groan? that was meowgnificat! 05:44:49 i wonder if the MC68851 + RAM is capable of arbitrary computation 05:44:51 kmc: i'm trying to fit arsenic wells into this, help 05:44:53 hmm, is x86 pause like stm retry 05:45:03 shachaf: a little 05:45:05 I think the fastest in CMOS is something like NAND 05:45:14 also there might be a HTM retry instruction now >_< 05:45:19 shachaf: it's a thing that basically makes the cpu wait a few cycles before doing anything else 05:45:23 yeah NAND or NOR, iirc 05:45:24 or maybe multiplexing 05:45:27 so it doesn't flood the pipe with repeated memory load requests in like, a spin-wait loop 05:46:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:46:12 NAND inside a memory calculation would be kinda crazy tho 05:46:18 it helps performance in hyperthrading (since the other thread on the same core isn't sharing with useless memory loads) and it apparently has some benefit because of a memory ordering thing, where when the spin wait loop ends, the pipeline ends up being flushed because all of the loads are now invalid or something 05:46:33 Fiora: what if it just took exclusive ownership of all cache lines accessed in the current loop, and then slept until receiving a cache coherence protocol message asking for them back 05:46:37 that would be p. cool 05:46:41 also not sure if what I just said makes any sense 05:47:02 I wonder how that would work 05:47:33 kmc: that was vaguely what i was thinking of, i think 05:47:51 I wonder if the Haswell HTM does anything like that, since I think the cache is used as the transaction-in-progress buffer 05:47:55 I might be wrong about that, too 05:50:02 I would think good idea is to have parallel microcode units with Muxcomp (see Esolang wiki), using XOR for address calculation, and then the program will call the Muxcomp microcodes and run everything in parallel. 05:51:23 That might improve a lot of things, including, not being too complicated, not being too slow, and your program can customize it by rewriting the microcode, too. 05:52:07 How much do you expect such things working? 05:52:14 zzo38: Have you built simulators for any of your microarchitectures? 05:52:23 some of them sound really brilliantly weird 05:52:34 I remember you suggested using a programmable LFSR to derive the next program counter value..... 05:52:42 haha, awesome. 05:52:49 ;D 05:52:50 like a barrel memory or some shit 05:52:56 yes 05:53:04 like a drum memory in some absurdly high dimensional space 05:53:15 kmc: Yes, I have suggested all of various of these things, but I did not build a simulator or even put all of them in one place, unfortunately. At least, not yet. 05:53:17 where your mind will explode if you even begin to comprehend it 05:53:25 either that or it's just basic algebra, not sure tbqh 05:53:29 hyperbolic space fungeroid 05:53:43 weird architectures are cool as hell (wannabe neuroscientist warning) 05:53:45 apparently the truth table for XOR is 0x6996966996696996 05:54:03 you know, the internet has too few wannabe people 05:54:06 the bitwise of the beast 05:54:13 Bike: that's not what i was thinking of. 05:54:23 Gracenotes: are you being sarcastic or... what. 05:54:25 kmc: er? 05:54:27 kmc: I can only say '1' to that 05:54:38 It is the Thue-Morse sequence, isn't it? Anyways, that is what you make with the XOR like that, I think 05:55:06 Even in Verilog using the ^ unary operator on a number, I think would do that. 05:55:54 it is? that's cool 05:56:14 how about a cpu where instead of using registers, everything is based on queues 05:56:18 Earlier today I have made improvements to the Fweep and Aimfiz Z-machine interpreters, although now I am not doing that and might do something else, I don't quite know entirely. 05:56:39 madbr: that sounds good for a clockless implementation 05:57:03 kmc : I'm secretly wondering if some OOO cpus aren't doing that actually 05:57:21 How would you actually do such a think as queues and clockless implementation though really? 05:57:56 zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_circuit 05:58:07 like, instead of doing 05:58:19 mul rdest, rsrc1, rsrc2 05:58:21 you'd go 05:58:34 mul src1, src2 05:58:39 then later on 05:58:57 add dst, src1, multiply_result_queue 05:59:12 i see 05:59:19 you can't name a queue for the result in the 'mul' instruction? 05:59:33 it would perfectly handle the multiplication's long latency 05:59:43 and you could do it for memory operations as well 06:00:09 it's kind of like VLIW right? putting more of the burden of instruction scheduling on the compiler 06:00:20 not really 06:00:30 isn't that exactly what the physical register file is...? 06:00:34 the add dst, src1, mulq 06:00:49 just blocks until the multiplication result is available 06:01:01 so the exact cycle that it's issued varies 06:01:31 if you have a bunch of separate execution units, each one with their scheduling queues and input and output queues 06:01:51 I thought that's how it already works... 06:02:06 yeah I'm starting to think that's how they did the p2 06:03:37 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:03:54 <3 06:04:23 Wow, I'm on topic 06:05:05 haha. 06:05:20 hey Taneb do you want to read a sad stories 06:05:35 No 06:05:46 No I do not 06:05:50 oh 06:05:51 ok then 06:08:31 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:10:33 I think the TOGA computer would basically consist of a programmable binary counter (although it isn't very efficient, but you can still make any program with it). 06:16:17 I am going to see if I understand my book correctly 06:16:40 the one that went over holes and stuff? 06:16:55 Yeah 06:17:11 It is a bit of a whirlwind tour 06:18:06 What is a Galois field? 06:18:25 a finite field 06:18:52 Okay 06:19:03 what is a Galois connection? 06:19:04 Field in what sense? 06:19:26 Taneb: commutative division ring hth 06:19:58 -!- jconn has joined. 06:20:26 Because I am pretty sure that the field I sometimes walk my dog through that has cows in it is finite 06:20:54 a field is a set of objects with addition and multiplication defined, commutatively, and with inverses 06:20:59 um 06:21:07 no field with cows is finite 06:21:14 it's what's-their-name's theoerm 06:21:47 e.g., {0,1} with addition = OR and multiplication = XOR works. 06:22:17 er, xor and and. 06:22:31 maybe both are equivalent?? beats me 06:22:45 So a field in this sense is a ring where addition and multiplication form A belian groups 06:23:14 yes. 06:23:22 Taneb: no 06:23:25 well it's a ring where multiplication is commutative (addition is always commutative anyway) and you have multiplicative inverses except for 0 06:23:34 ^ 06:23:34 the except for 0 bit is important hth 06:24:33 Ok 06:25:15 0 can't have a multiplicative inverse since it must annihilate the ring 06:25:20 due to being an additive inverse 06:25:22 err 06:25:24 additive identity 06:25:37 I see 06:26:02 0 is sometimes known as "Frodo" 06:26:32 Taneb: try proving that 0 * a = 0 06:26:40 oh, and there's one other important property 06:26:44 distributivity 06:26:48 without it nothing works 06:26:52 yes, but rings have that anyway 06:27:05 rings wouldn't be a thing without it 06:27:12 well yes 06:27:27 oh, misread your thing 06:27:49 wow this place has no appreciation 06:28:05 or is it just that that pun is an old and tired one?? i haven't heard it before 06:28:23 it's not really a pun 06:28:59 `quote taneb.*cow 06:29:01 405) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. 06:29:24 how it is not a pun 06:30:29 oerjan, see? I'm consistent! 06:30:36 hmm 0∙a=a is a semiring axiom 06:34:16 ab= a(0+b)= (a0)+(ab) 06:35:25 ab-ab=a0+ab-ab 06:36:00 0=a0 06:36:08 QED 06:36:46 yep that's pretty demonstratumed. 06:38:23 > 0 / recip 0.0 06:38:25 0.0 06:38:54 > recip 0/0 06:38:55 Infinity 06:39:00 Yay 06:42:17 infinity is my favorite natural number 06:42:20 Ooh, the next chapter is on chaos theory 06:42:38 imo read up on ICAF 06:42:43 oh, sorry. conatural number. 06:44:17 First I shall read up on x_t+1=k x_t (1- x_t ) 06:44:28 logistic map, right? 06:44:38 yes sweet 06:45:10 here's hoping your book mentions feigenbaum 06:45:26 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:58:28 Bike, it did not. :( 07:00:02 And now it is on to the Black-Scholes equation 07:00:50 why 07:00:53 oh well. you could probably write a whole book just on the logisti cmap 07:00:56 also that should be named after zzo38 07:01:08 black-zzoles 07:04:29 @tell Vorpal I was going to suggest maybe X/Y/Z translations -- I've seen those confuse the Hugin fast preview window -- but if the remapped images are okay, then that's not it. Weird. (Also speaking of panostuff, I fiddled together a panohead and took some test pictures -- http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGJ1XdS -- there's also some from the university campus that I haven't stitched yet.) 07:04:29 Consider it noted. 07:08:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:12:37 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:15:48 This chapter is scary 07:17:43 still black-zzoles? 07:17:52 Yup 07:24:09 I do not want to work in finance 07:25:06 are fine ants like fine arts 07:25:43 Taneb: why are you reading about black-scholes? 07:25:55 -!- jconn has joined. 07:26:14 ) 1 2 3 + 10 20 30 07:26:14 oerjan: 11 22 33 07:26:46 kmc, it is the final formula in 17 formulas that changed the world 07:27:10 is RSA in there 07:27:14 or DH 07:27:15 which formula now? 07:27:38 yeah, if they don't go light on the "changing the world" I might read it... 07:28:43 RSA is not 07:28:57 I do not know what DH is 07:29:00 I started thinking about how something like TLS would work in a world with only symmetric cryptography 07:29:10 i think it's basically possible, but a huge pain in the ass 07:29:19 needs more trusted third parties 07:29:27 actively involved in protocols, that is 07:30:08 yeah instead of CAs passively signing certificates, they would interact as trusted third parties for key negotiation 07:30:21 but you could still have a hierarchy of trust similar to TLS today, I think 07:30:51 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:31:44 s/formulas/equations/ 07:32:35 Taneb: I meant Diffie-Hellman key exchange, which predates RSA a bit and was sort of the start of public key cryptography 07:32:48 Then ni 07:33:04 *no 07:35:00 hmm, is diffie-hellman an equation 07:36:01 you could say it's B^a ≡ A^b (mod p) where ... 07:36:24 I guess. 07:36:50 black-scholes isn't very good either 07:37:19 I suppose the equation for RSA would be ed = 1 mod (p-1)(q-1).. and also mod pq... 07:37:21 but that's ok 07:37:46 maybe say phi(n), n = pq, gcd(p, q) = 1? ...getting a bit complicated. 07:39:45 It is: pythagoras, logarithms, differentiation, gravity, imaginary numbers, F-E+V=2, normal distribution, wave equation, Fourier transform, Navier-Stokes, Maxwell's equations, the second law of thermodynamics, relativity, Schrodigner's equation, information theory, logistc formula, Black-Scholes 07:39:50 okay, so the 17 equations, so to speak, seem to be: 1. Pythagoras's theorem 2. Logarithms 3. Calculus 4. Newton's law of gravity 5. ... 07:39:53 ahem 07:40:00 welp. My job here is done. 07:40:05 bye Gracenotes 07:40:16 * Gracenotes puts on rocket pack 07:40:17 do you think public key cryptography changed the world to a comparable degree 07:41:01 imo the world is immutable 07:41:13 I mean, crypto has not changed things *that* much, I don't think. 07:41:36 at least for civillians. 07:41:49 crypto has always been important for states. 07:41:56 so we have online shopping. woo. 07:42:13 well, obviously anyb ook like that is going to simplify things, and/or make cuts 07:42:21 you could claim that none of the tech giants of today would exist without it 07:42:28 i'm not really sure about that though 07:42:38 I think people don't really give a shit about security when there's enough convenience to be had 07:42:41 myself included 07:42:51 yes 07:43:02 it used to be you would just read your credit card number out loud on a POTS line 07:43:20 hm, so crypto is mentioned in the entropy chapter, mainly the use of basic information theory in cryptanalysis 07:43:22 Gracenotes: also, bitcoin, but that's more of a future-potential thing 07:43:31 i'm kind of curious how the logistic map is world-changing 07:43:58 there's no reason why a bunch of servers couldn't use fancy https 07:44:00 -!- kmc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:44:00 i can't think of any applications for it other than maybe ecology 07:44:10 and that's kind of a stretch. 07:44:19 -!- kmc has joined. 07:44:20 Bike, he used it to introduce chaos theory 07:44:22 Bike: logistic map? I'd have thought basic arithmetic, a la Napier 07:44:29 welp i killed irssi somehow 07:44:41 Gracenotes: ...what? 07:44:42 er, nevermind, conflated with logarithms. 07:44:49 probably by banging on the keyboard like a stoned idiot 07:44:56 which is what I imagine chapter 2 is about. neverminds. 07:45:14 i'm not sure what world-changing appliations chaos theory has had either honestly :P 07:45:23 as exciting as staring at double pendulums is 07:45:32 have you ever looked at a fractal, on acid 07:45:44 I can't say I have. 07:45:54 now i want a bong that's a double pendulum 07:46:08 kmc, I tried but it dissolved 07:46:09 which doesn't even make sense 07:46:14 kmc: I'd imagine xaos would be pretty fun. 07:46:25 maybe an inverted pendulum bong 07:46:26 oh, thanks for the suggestion :) 07:46:35 have ot balance it on my head 07:46:49 xoas is just generally fun to zoom into 07:47:03 you've seen electric sheep, right? 07:47:06 sadly not interactive 07:47:46 have not 07:48:01 http://www.electricsheep.org/ 07:48:48 yeah, in xaos, just set the zoom speed really high and try to avoid 'boring' (non-recursive) areas 07:48:54 the paper about how they're rendered is cool too http://flam3.com/flame.pdf 07:48:55 I used to do that a lot... good way to waste time 07:49:00 xaos++ 07:49:18 whoa, dude, xaos ~~ "chaos"?? 07:49:23 :O 07:49:24 nowai 07:49:40 i ve always pronounced each letter 07:49:57 χaos 07:50:15 actually, if you do it on something like Barnsley, it's like falling with a lot of bars in the way 07:51:45 Would it be considered rude to email the author asking for further reading? 07:51:55 probably not 07:52:00 is there a bibliography, though? 07:52:08 shachaf: what are some good channels i'm not in 07:52:31 Alas no 07:52:33 i should probably lurk in ##electronics again, that was pretty great 07:52:34 #haskell (goodness joke) 07:52:38 bibliographies are like the best parts of books because there's a billion more books in them 07:52:46 ##electronics? is it actually about electronics 07:52:55 (the joke is that #haskell is often not that good :'( ) 07:52:57 plus the cites are always all over the place 07:53:06 i still like the highs of #haskell though!! 07:53:11 my awesome new book on neural development cites hayek, the economist 07:53:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 07:53:20 well FINE jerk 07:53:47 Bike: electronics + misc mad science 07:54:17 "The natural concept tree: a study of learning in pigeons" pigeons clearly don't get enough credit 07:54:27 electronics iss cool and i don't know shit about it etc etc 07:54:41 Bike: then how come http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html 07:54:46 so join 07:54:55 good idea 07:54:58 there i'm in ##electronics now 07:55:17 I like ##tea 07:55:23 what happens there 07:55:23 I also like tea 07:55:25 +whatevermeansyoucan'ttagwithoutnickserv 07:55:27 People talk about tea 07:55:37 Gracenotes: do you like the iso standard kmc is about to give the number for 07:55:40 People make snarky comments about tisanes sometimes for no reason. 07:55:50 ISO 3103 07:56:25 "I will lol if it's three-phase" yeah this is pretty good 07:56:35 i had tea with Gracenotes once 07:56:40 it was p. good 07:57:08 yeah, although I didn't make it 07:57:08 the thing i don't like about bibliographies in books is they don't have the backreferences to where they're cited, like wikipedia articles do 07:57:11 oh well. 07:57:14 IRCing while working with high voltage: the best 07:57:18 kmc: what about, like gaiwans and stuff though 07:57:24 what's that 07:57:39 ISO 3103 is controversial in its cultural imperialism 07:58:09 ugh I saw "Ca⁺⁺" and thought it was something about programming, time to sleep 07:59:11 Gracenotes: fair point 08:00:15 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:00:43 there are so many options in xaos that are just for screwing with your mind 08:00:53 smooth color palette cycling, rotation, autozoom 08:01:04 "soviet bcd to decimal decoders" this is fantastic kmc 08:01:14 i have no idea what the fuck is going on 08:01:25 should i be in ##electronics 08:01:30 i used to be there but then i left 08:01:34 hope i have made your day just a little bit more cyberpunk 08:02:16 maybe i can get into BEAM through this somehow 08:02:22 what goes on there? 08:03:49 kmc: you could also give a talk at the mountain view haskell thing 08:03:57 eh 08:03:59 which is next week 08:04:07 or you could go see conal's talk 08:04:14 what's conal's talk 08:04:40 Unless other offers surface, Conal will give a talk. Some possible topics: top-down vs bottom-up data structures, memoization, automatic differentiation, denotational semantics, circuit timing via linear algebra. If you have a talk offer or request, please chime in. 08:04:50 that's good stuff 08:04:59 conal is p. great 08:05:07 i wonder if people would like a "Rust for Haskell programmers" talk 08:05:12 i'm not qualified to give one yet, though 08:05:17 shachaf: yes, all of those 08:05:20 please 08:05:21 thank you 08:05:26 http://dickhealth.org/post/52887357182/my-dick-looks-like-a-perilous-thicket-of-briers aaaaand gone 08:05:56 kmc: why should you let that stop you 08:09:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Goodbye tilde). 08:18:50 1.8 fps... 2.15 fps 08:18:53 Gah. 08:19:00 I shouldn't use the IRC input line for notes.) 08:24:38 Bike: D: 08:33:58 fizzie: *MWAHAHAHA* we know your secret notes! 08:34:25 oh no is this mad science 08:42:56 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:50:30 I was just fiddling with gstreamer; I've always wanted to take a time-lapse picture of something, but my camera doesn't know how to do that; realized the other day that the N900 has a passable camera, and can be controlled programmatically. 08:51:58 http://sprunge.us/fCXS seems to work nicely for capturing one 1080p-sized frame per second over wifi. (JPEG'd, unfortunately; raw frames are too big for the TCP part.) 08:55:26 "Gunna" be the most exciting video on the YouTubes for sure https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130709-frame00000000.jpg 08:56:15 (In some frames... there's... a car...) 08:56:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:02:23 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 09:04:12 Oh no, my video camera started ringing. :/ 09:06:14 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:06:49 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130709-frame00000963.jpg -- apparently taking a picture and vibrating aren't really supposed to be done simultaneously. 09:06:52 -!- atehwa has joined. 09:12:01 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:01 -!- atehwa_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:01 -!- constant has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:02 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:02 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:02 -!- rodgort` has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:03 -!- neena has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:03 -!- surma has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:04 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:05 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:05 -!- augur_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:06 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:07 -!- ineiros_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:09 -!- matthiaskrgr has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:11 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:11 -!- sivoais has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:11 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:11 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 09:13:52 -!- matthiaskrgr has joined. 09:14:28 -!- EgoBot has joined. 09:15:39 -!- variable has joined. 09:15:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:15:39 -!- surma has joined. 09:15:39 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:15:39 -!- augur_ has joined. 09:15:39 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 09:15:39 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:15:39 -!- Fiora has joined. 09:15:39 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 09:15:39 -!- neena has joined. 09:18:05 -!- variable has changed nick to Guest26607. 09:58:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:01:01 -!- Bike has joined. 10:13:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:16:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:31:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:31:14 Hello, again 10:32:40 Tanello 10:34:29 AnotherTello 10:34:54 hi Taneb 10:36:02 shachaf: what was that thingy that ion was working on 10:36:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Latër). 10:36:36 Mu/Nu/etc.? 10:37:12 Perhaps! 10:37:14 (yes) 10:37:36 Well, there are these types Mu/Nu/Fix. 10:38:05 Okay 10:38:05 They're all equivalent, in Haskell. The exercises were to write mu2nu and so on, and figure out some things about them. 10:38:27 Give me definitions of the types and I will give it an independent go? 10:38:46 newtype Fix f = Fix { runFix :: f (Fix f) } 10:38:56 newtype Mu f = Mu { runMu :: forall r. (f r -> r) -> r } 10:39:07 data Nu f = forall x. Nu x (x -> f x) 10:39:26 So the exercises are, uh... 10:39:41 Write mu2nu etc. 10:40:15 Mu Maybe/Nu Maybe = Nat, more or less. Without using recursion or Nat, write muZero, muSucc, muToInt, nuZero, nuSucc, etc. 10:40:56 Figure out what the differences (and the similarities) are between Mu Maybe and Nu Maybe. 10:41:05 Um, there was something else I was going to say. 10:41:08 I don't even have a syntax highlighter on this computer... 10:41:16 Do you have ghci? 10:41:19 No 10:41:31 It's not my computer, I wouldn't feel right installing it 10:41:41 You should get ghci somehow. 10:41:42 mu2fix (Mu r) = r Fix 10:41:43 ? 10:42:07 Yep. 10:42:23 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:43:42 Oh: Write inMu :: Functor f => f (Mu f) -> Mu f, and similarly for outMu, inNu, outNu 10:44:17 (Easy version: Write inFix and outFix.) 10:44:50 Prove that Mu F and Nu F are fixed points of F (tricky). 10:50:26 fix2mu (Fix f) = Mu $ \r -> r $ flip (runMu . fix2mu) r <$> f 10:50:27 ? 10:52:02 If it type-checks then I guess so? 10:52:10 I have no idea if it typechecks! 10:52:20 Well 10:52:21 It type-checks. 10:52:30 I have some idea whether it type-checks or not 10:52:33 It looks reasonable. 10:52:47 But I'm just doing this in Notepad and my brain 10:53:23 imo ghci > brain hth 10:56:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:00:34 -!- mtve has joined. 11:00:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:02:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:03:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:08:35 fix2nu f = Nu f runFix 11:08:49 (I'm using School of Haskell to test my code now) 11:08:58 (that compiles but feels weird...) 11:09:29 Weirder than: mu2fix m = runMu m Fix ? 11:09:40 It looks exactly dual to me. :-) 11:11:51 I'm not used to existential quantification 11:11:56 It's pretty weird. 11:12:06 Well, it's actually not weird. 11:12:22 But it's weird when you're not used to it. 11:15:02 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:16:21 Am I allowed to say mu2nu = fix2nu . mu2fix ? 11:17:06 Sure, I guess. Or you're allowed to to inline them. 11:17:17 It's also possible to write mu2nu without the Fix type, but trickier. 11:17:42 Chasles applied to haskell function composition? 11:18:05 The other way round introduces a functor constraint which I do not know whether it is necessary or not 11:18:38 Thinking about it, it seems necessary? 11:20:10 On another note, Ian Stewart's personal webpage looks very 1997 11:20:16 http://freespace.virgin.net/ianstewart.joat/index.htm 11:20:36 Yes, it seems necessary. 11:21:26 cata :: Functor f => (f a -> a) -> Fix f -> a 11:21:49 ana :: Functor f => (a -> f a) -> a -> Fix f 11:22:29 hylo :: Functor f => (f b -> b) -> (a -> f a) -> a -> b 11:22:38 These functions should seem familiar. 11:22:47 These are the "hard" directions. 11:32:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:34:29 -!- heroux has joined. 11:36:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:39:18 I think I have gone wrong somewhere 11:39:29 > print $ muToInt $ muSucc $ muSucc $ muSucc muZero 11:39:30 7 11:39:30 Not in scope: `muToInt'Not in scope: `muSucc'Not in scope: `muSucc'Not in s... 11:39:37 Shush, lambdabot 11:40:21 It seems I've written "double and add one" instead of succ 11:41:15 Sounds reasonable. 11:41:45 It might help -- especially with Nu -- to write one, two, etc. yourself before writing succ. 11:41:57 I'm doing that with Mu 11:43:12 Okay, got it working this time 11:43:58 Taneb: You can also write the isomorphism between Mu Maybe and newtype Nat = Nat { runNat :: forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> a }, if you feel like it. 11:44:03 (But it's pretty straightforward.) 11:48:30 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:48:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:57:27 -!- heroux has joined. 11:58:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:02:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:03:37 -!- heroux has joined. 12:08:05 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:09:30 -!- heroux has joined. 12:09:44 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:10:04 -!- itsy has joined. 12:10:36 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:11:06 -!- itsy has joined. 12:15:31 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:25:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:28:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:50:23 -!- surma has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:52:12 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 12:54:15 -!- boily has joined. 13:21:02 is there anything that can simulate having additional latency on a network connection? 13:21:16 it would be nice to be able to see for myself how much e.g. some additional ping would affect irssi in mosh 13:22:52 IIRC, if you run your stuff in virtualbox, there are options to simulate lag and packet drop in vbox's network config. 13:23:58 interesting 13:24:09 so I could like proxy mosh through a virtualbox with a simulated bad internet connection :p 13:24:37 something convoluted and hackish like that, yes. 13:26:53 Two ssh tunnels 13:28:13 -!- katla has joined. 13:33:02 Linux's traffic shaping layer has the "netem" module for that, but it's probably not the most user-friendly way. 13:33:33 http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/netem "This is the simplest example, it just adds a fixed amount of delay to all packets going out of the local Ethernet. [[ tc qdisc add dev eth0 root netem delay 100ms ]]" 13:33:39 I guess that's not so hard, after all. 13:33:47 fizzie: I figured out why Tilaa's pricing was so absurd: I'm paying $20/mo now, but I was converting the euro prices to GBP and going "ooh, it's 20, like I'm paying now". 13:34:43 Ah. 13:34:53 fizzie: netem's not hard, just complex, and a powerful timewaster where you can tweak your day away and not notice anything. 13:35:18 Also: I have just successfully captured a three-and-a-quarter hour video (6 minutes, 28 seconds at 30 fps) of the view from the window of this office. It is MOST EXCITING. 13:36:15 hm I guess I should take another look at hetzner 13:36:19 though tilaa's prices are still good 13:36:30 I humbly request that you shall provide me with this EXCITEMENT you are talking about. 13:37:09 fizzie: don't do it. he's just trying to deduce your coordinates and body weigh. 13:39:12 elliott: no need for deduction, I already have them. 13:39:32 (that reminds me, I should calligraphy and frame the list. it truly is a work of art and beauty and weigh) 13:41:51 My coordinates are $$\bf{0}$$. 13:45:16 I should probably upload it to YouTube, I'm sure I'd win it. 13:46:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 13:47:26 Jafet: your coordinates are nearly as creativuseless as elliot's were. 13:47:37 (First, though; home.) 13:47:50 boily: two ts!!!!! 13:47:57 elliott: sorrytt. 13:58:36 Gregor: can UMLBox do "read access to this directory but write access to this single filename in it (that may or may not exist)"? 14:00:35 No, its permissions are based on mounts so are only at the directory level. 14:01:33 right, blah 14:01:38 I guess you could do it with a unionfs of some kind? 14:03:11 Maybe? >_> 14:11:12 -!- sacje has joined. 14:23:06 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:23:29 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:41:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:43:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:46:20 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:49:51 boily: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0w8rDXZohA if you can HANDLE IT. 15:01:04 fizzie: the TREES are nice, as are the DOGS. 15:09:16 finland is cute 15:19:59 -!- conehead has joined. 15:54:18 I wonder if it's gonna "go viral". I understand that happens when you upload to the tube. 15:56:58 I'm not sure if I want to be infected by that. 15:58:16 I, for one, welcome our new Finnish overlords. 15:58:21 shachaf: did you get booted from irc.mozilla.org? 15:58:33 did shachaf overdo the monoids jokes 15:59:15 -!- Yonkie has joined. 16:00:20 https://medium.com/surveillance-state/a6e0e5fca935 16:00:32 I love monoid jokes. They are so easy. 16:01:05 haha 16:01:07 re link 16:06:38 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:13:19 monoid jokes? what is it? 16:13:51 ion: I find they typically lack depth 16:18:52 elliott: yeah you can use netem, or keithw's thing http://alfalfa.mit.edu/ 16:19:00 which takes an actual trace of delivery times on a cell network and replays it 16:19:37 suspect I'm out of luck being stuck on OS X 16:19:43 unless I do the hideous virtualbox solution 16:22:49 write a LD_PRELOAD or whatever the OS equiv is that just slows down network calls 16:22:52 OS X equiv* 16:24:43 at that point it becomes easier to spend the $20 on a month's service so I can just test it :P 16:27:36 but where's the hack value in that 16:28:04 If you really want to test a high latency connection, you should use a service that charges $5 16:28:36 kmc: well, I am a hack. 16:30:48 in the rust language meeting 16:31:49 have you told them it's weird as heck yet 16:31:55 people are discussing whether to continue to use linked lists of small bits of memory as a stack 16:32:42 spaghetti stack type stuff? 16:32:49 yeah probably 16:33:04 also, whine whine conflation of language and implementation whine whine that I don't actually have the heart to care about 16:33:13 well it's the rust implementation meeting too ;P 16:33:30 they should have them in separate buildings 16:33:36 have to be decontaminated to pass between them 16:33:39 also it might end up in the language because when you call a C function it needs to give you a big contiguous stack, and there will be an annotation to say how much you want 16:33:45 and no bringing in materials from one to the other 16:33:47 and whether to do it earlier than necessary 16:44:50 -!- jsvine has joined. 16:45:19 kmc: do they actually need to set up a full stack for C FFI 16:46:21 well your C function wants some stack 16:46:30 it's not going to call the magic __morestack function or whatever 16:46:40 hi jsvine 16:46:48 hi kmc! 16:47:12 After a few weeks of being distracted by another project, I'm back on #esoteric 16:47:25 elliott: this is only really a problem on 32-bit; on 64-bit you can just allocate 2MB of address space per stack and let the VM subsystem fill in pages as needed 16:47:49 kmc: oh I see, it is not that the stack gets filled in with entries corresponding to rust 16:47:55 do they really care about 32-bit :p 16:47:57 ? 16:48:04 elliott: yeah, because Servo is supposed to be a mobile browser too 16:48:14 and mobile is going to be 32-bit for a while yet 16:48:18 um, like, I thought you meant that they'd allocate a stack for C FFI and then fill it with entries corresponding to rust call frames. 16:48:21 for some reason. 16:48:26 nope 16:48:38 hm, isn't RAM in phones pushing 1-2 gigs now? 16:48:47 I guess they can just do PAE type stuff for a long while 16:48:59 yeah 16:49:09 phones have a lot of processes running 16:49:25 but I think it'll be a while yet before low-end phones have >4 GB 16:49:36 yes 17:23:52 -!- katla has quit (Killed (cameron.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 17:23:59 -!- Guest6451 has joined. 17:24:01 -!- katla has joined. 17:24:48 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 17:27:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:27:54 I was quietly, randomly "fortune -a"ing, and once again I stumbled upon a very short and mysterious message: 17:27:56 shachaf, I got stuck and wandered off 17:28:04 “Mene, mene, tekel, upharsen.” 17:28:38 anyone here has an idea about its meaning? 17:29:06 DOOM. 17:29:13 Sounds German? Possibly Yiddish? 17:29:32 [[ The expression originates from the Book of Daniel, Chapter 5, from the handwriting on the wall that was witnessed at a banquet hosted by king Belshazzar. As those at the feast profaned the sacred vessels pillaged from the Jerusalem Temple, a disembodied hand appeared and wrote on the palace wall the words, "Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin". The prophet Daniel was summoned and interpreted this ... 17:29:38 ... message as the imminent end for the Babylonian kingdom. That night, Belshazzar was killed and the Persians sacked the capital city. ]] 17:29:48 (I have looked this up for a different place where it was referred to. Bored of the Rings, perhaps.) 17:30:11 http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/07/09/0052211/sent-to-jail-because-of-a-software-bug?utm_source=butt&utm_medium=butt 17:30:15 google translate says it's Norwegian. it's biblical enough for me. 17:30:37 «Believe, believe, Tekel, upharsin.» 17:31:18 Ya gotta believe me, Tekel, they be upharsin', I tell ya! 17:31:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%205:25&version=KJV 17:32:21 Taneb: maybe upharsin is Old Norse for "fternooner". 17:32:45 "[26] This is the interpretation of the thing: /Mene/; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. [27] /Tekel/; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. [28] /Peres/; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians." -- also the translation. 17:33:23 I'm not sure why it's "Peres" when it was "Upharsin" just three verses up, but I'm sure it's some kinda language thing. 17:33:42 What's the etymology of "doona", as in the Australian-English synonym of duvet? 17:34:34 Oh, it was a brand name 17:35:15 From Scandinavian "dyna"? 17:38:01 -!- Guest6451 has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 17:38:15 Also! (I am easily distracted) 17:38:22 No wait, that is a stupid idea 17:38:30 RIP Guest6451 17:39:52 Wait! It is a less stupid idea than I previously thought! 17:40:06 Still pretty stupid, though 17:40:13 * boily distractingly pokes Taneb 17:40:25 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:40:27 Using different colours to compress memory! 17:40:52 ~metar oh god I am on holiday and do not know the nearest airport 17:40:53 --- Station not found! 17:41:01 where are you? 17:41:33 ~metar EGHN 17:41:34 --- Station not found! 17:41:43 Isle of Wight 17:41:44 ~metar EGNH 17:41:45 EGNH 091720Z 30007KT CAVOK 21/14 Q1027 17:42:25 ~metar EGHJ 17:42:25 --- Station not found! 17:42:34 hm. both wightian airfields aren't listed... 17:42:35 Isle of Wight/Sandown airport is closest 17:42:57 Send an angry message to the metarthorities 17:43:24 I'll have to implement multiple metarsources. 17:44:09 ~metar EGHI 17:44:09 EGHI 091720Z 03009KT 360V070 CAVOK 24/08 Q1025 17:45:11 wunderground puts you in Southampton when searching for EGHN. 17:45:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:46:52 -!- Bike has joined. 17:47:35 To be fair, Southamption is about as close to the Isle of Wight you can get without actually being on the Isle of Wight or a boat or getting quite wet 17:51:43 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:53:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:53:33 My favorite series of rhymes involving areas of Britain is "All those angry letter writers / Like disgusted from the Isle of Wight and / Mad from Hull, and outraged from Leeds / And slightly annoyed from Berwick-on-Tweed" 17:54:29 s/and/or/ if you like feminine half-rhymes. 17:55:10 -!- Bike has joined. 17:55:45 we had a Hull in Québec, but it was assimilated into Gatineau / Ottawa. 17:56:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:07:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:20:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:20:29 oh yeah 18:22:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:30:30 katla: oh yeah? yeah about what? 18:35:00 wrong channel 18:36:08 oh shit, it's beaky 18:38:22 where 18:41:43 ##electronics 18:42:02 he's saying sentences that seem to convey information!! shocking 18:42:33 i heard about soldering iron aventures 18:42:34 ad 18:44:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:51:40 i want to read it 18:53:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:53:53 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:54:25 read what 18:54:58 -!- heroux has joined. 18:58:19 ~fortune 18:58:19 As the recent sightings of bumper stickers reading "IN CASE OF RAPTURE, THIS 18:58:19 VEHICLE WILL BE UNMANNED" have created a great deal of confusion, Fortune 18:58:19 offers the following excerpts from the 1989 printing of the State of Maryland 18:58:19 Driver's Handbook: 18:58:19 If you notice a glorious light in the sky, a sound as of an infinite 18:58:20 choir of unearthly voices, and a host of winged beings descending from the 18:58:20 heavens, do not panic. If you are on the freeway, move to the shoulder as 18:58:21 soon as it is safe to do so, activate your hazard blinkers, and wait for the 18:58:21 end of the world. If you are Saved, it is especially important that you do 18:58:22 this BEFORE you are carried to your Eternal Reward, in order that your vehicle 18:58:22 not become a hazard to others. Remember, Rapture is the number one cause of 18:58:23 automobile accidents during major spiritual upheavals. You may experience a 18:58:23 feeling of discorporation ("being pulled from one's body") while driving. To 18:58:24 ensure the safety of your passengers and other drivers, move to the shoulder 18:58:54 ah! I hit a flood! 18:59:02 ~fortune 18:59:02 One planet is all you get. 18:59:08 help 18:59:15 ~duck help 18:59:16 Help is any form of assistance. 19:14:35 -!- katla has quit (Quit: katla has no reason). 19:19:51 ~fortune 19:19:52 The real trouble with women is that they have *all* the pussy. 19:21:20 uh. 19:21:55 metasepia................. 19:22:15 no....... 19:22:17 what 19:22:18 * boily smacks his bot with a rolled newspaper. "bad bot" 19:22:20 is that supposed to mean 19:22:21 ~fortune 19:22:21 Pig: An animal (Porcus omnivorous) closely allied to the human race by the 19:22:21 splendor and vivacity of its appetite, which, however, is inferior in scope, 19:22:21 for it balks at pig. 19:22:21 -- Ambrose Bierce 19:22:22 Is it always -o? 19:22:33 ah no, it's -a. 19:23:22 I don't get the ones with the uppercase words 19:23:27 http://sprunge.us/hZWW I... don't think that's right. 19:23:44 For example this one: "When I met th'POPE back in '58, I scrubbed him with a MILD SOAP or DETERGENT for 15 minutes. He seemed to enjoy it ..." 19:23:48 What's the hidden meaning? 19:24:46 those are zippy-the-pinhead-like. a kind of surreal madlib, if you want. 19:25:12 fizzie: that sounds awfully similar to a grad student research project. 19:25:34 boily: In reality, it's just non-study-related fiddling. 19:25:50 (It's my own code.) 19:29:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:32:12 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:33:04 As usual, it was a case of nuns-in-nuns-out. I mean, NaNs. 19:35:52 another victim of St-nAnne of the Sisterhood of Uncomputable Numbers. 19:36:03 incidentally, maybe the brand name 'Cutter' isn't the best for a U-lock 19:36:40 boily: fun problem: what is 0x1p1023 + 0x1p1023 - 0x1p1023 - 0x1p1023? 19:37:30 * boily uses his fingers... 19:38:43 1p? 19:38:55 coppro: I end up with a green zebra. 19:39:06 coppro: What is that p 19:39:06 I think I made a mental mistake somewhere... 19:40:43 coppro: that equation put into an unsigned long long, then printfed, gives me 0. 19:41:45 FreeFull: floating point exponent 19:42:20 boily: in floating point it's variously +inf,-inf, 0, and NaN depending on how you order the operations 19:42:52 now that I doubled it, I get +inf. 19:43:02 this is annoying, nonetheless, I need to get a bike lock that's convenient to use, but I also do want to get a better bike within a few months. 19:52:48 The whole channel would certainly benefit from a better bike. 19:53:38 Fuck. Anyone who has anything to do with bicycles and bicycle locks doesn't remotely fucking believe in cool URIs 19:56:39 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 19:58:43 -!- FreeFull has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:58:56 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 20:01:36 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 20:01:36 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 20:01:36 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:03 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:05:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:06:42 -!- clog has joined. 20:06:42 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:06:42 -!- Gregor has joined. 20:07:16 I made a soundtrack to that u-tube video, but can't figure out how to paste it in posthumously. 20:10:04 I guess it's not a possible. 20:18:10 Youtube editor thing could work 20:18:18 Or you could reupload 20:23:47 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 20:23:47 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 20:23:48 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 20:24:36 -!- clog has joined. 20:24:36 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:24:36 -!- Gregor has joined. 20:27:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:38:40 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 20:38:41 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 20:38:41 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 20:40:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:41:45 -!- clog has joined. 20:41:45 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:41:45 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:05:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:05:03 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:57 kmc: Booted? 21:07:01 I don't think so? 21:07:19 it disconnected me and wouldn't let me reconnect with SSL on port 6697 21:07:22 only plaintext on 6667 21:07:56 * shachaf is using plaintext anyway. 21:18:27 first servo patch \o/ https://github.com/mozilla/servo/commit/cfffd0542404b60923f3f524f5144693d9b89f00 21:18:28 | 21:18:28 |\ 21:18:35 myndzi: <3 21:18:49 that kind of looks like he's hanging onto a cliff made of text o_O 21:19:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:19:37 zomg #[deriving(Eq)] 21:19:45 kmc: is that your first patch at mozilla? :o 21:19:53 yep 21:19:54 what kind of equality does it derive 21:20:00 kmc: mozilla getting their money's worth there 21:20:03 shachaf: the best kind 21:20:05 elliott: ikr 21:20:08 kmc, Head Instance Deriver 21:20:18 today instances, tomorrow the world 21:20:27 congrats! also, nice that your first patch actually removes code XD 21:20:33 yes! 21:20:36 i am pleased about that 21:20:42 removing code is the best 21:20:45 ok now you have to keep a net negative. 21:20:47 forever. 21:20:55 elliott: I was net negative on Mosh for a long time 21:21:01 because I deleted a bunch of bundled third party libraries 21:21:10 btw what is their really wacky merge thing like 21:21:11 kmcodedestroyer 21:21:12 all those github bots 21:21:16 they scare me 21:21:21 it's not too bad 21:21:54 you open a pull request the normal way, then someone reviews it and replies with "r+" to accept it, then the bot merges to branch auto, runs tests on several platforms, and if that passes it merges to master 21:22:28 ugh github pull requests 21:22:33 :'( 21:22:42 what happens to auto if the tests fail 21:22:52 dunno 21:22:59 chaos in the streets 21:24:11 so an instance is called an "implementation" 21:24:25 betraying rust's operational roots 21:24:48 so what is the point of auto if it doesn't handle tests failing... 21:26:01 it probably does something sane, I just don't know what ;P 21:28:23 maybe I should work on rust 21:28:26 instead of being bored half the time 21:30:43 yes 21:30:44 do it 21:30:59 unfortunately I am lazy 100% of the time 21:31:31 -!- carado has joined. 21:32:46 -!- Guest26607 has quit (Changing host). 21:32:46 -!- Guest26607 has joined. 21:32:51 -!- Guest26607 has changed nick to variable. 21:35:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:37:58 -!- Bike has joined. 21:42:18 -!- Ermelys has joined. 21:42:36 hola 21:42:40 hi 21:42:44 `relcome Ermelys 21:42:50 -!- Ermelys has left. 21:42:52 ​Ermelys: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:42:54 wow 21:42:57 i take it back!! 21:43:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:44:14 -!- Bike has joined. 21:46:16 did the colours change? 21:46:36 they were never fixed 21:50:19 `rwelcome Koen_ 21:50:21 ​Koen_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:50:28 this one is fixed 21:50:58 hm i'm wondering if all the spanish speakers are just because our channel starts with es... 21:52:03 oh thanks 21:52:15 my rainbow is better than yours Ermelys 21:52:24 oerjan: let's move to #oteric 21:52:51 "Did you mean: esoteric" 21:53:13 enoteric 21:53:49 something tells me S. Oteric on facebook is not using his real name. 21:54:30 also no:oter = en:otter 21:58:56 = pl:wydra 22:00:19 pesky indoeuropeans 22:01:11 (by which i mean that it looks related through a few plausible sound changes) 22:02:16 Apparently they are cognates 22:02:18 especially as dropping w before o is something that happened in norse. 22:02:34 (e.g. no:ulv = en:wolf) 22:02:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:03:02 no:odin older_germanic:wotan 22:03:05 = pl:wilk 22:03:14 wolf that is 22:03:21 Odin is just Odin 22:03:44 -!- Bike has joined. 22:03:55 Actually, no 22:03:58 It's Odyn 22:04:07 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:04:36 yes, but does it refer to the _norse_ god or to the corresponding ancient polish/slavic god 22:04:50 (whoever that is) 22:05:09 because if it was really anciently related, it'd be the latter. 22:05:14 Norse god 22:05:33 Slavic gods are a different parthenon 22:05:45 *pantheon 22:06:03 parthathamenon 22:06:46 no:ull = en:wool 22:06:50 `olist (898) 22:06:52 olist (898): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 22:06:55 yay! 22:06:58 oerjan: how come you didn't tell me :'( 22:07:31 because i just found out at the same time as you hth 22:07:33 = pl:wełna 22:07:57 Btw, en:cotton is pl:bawełna 22:08:00 there's a bug on my screen 22:08:10 apparently it likes your 'l's 22:08:20 That's not a bug =P 22:08:56 = no:bomull, although that's a half-translated borrowing from de:Baumwolle 22:09:07 Tree wool :D 22:09:38 oerjan: oh it came out 8 minutes ago 22:09:38 i suspect the polish is as well 22:09:50 Nope 22:10:00 Bawełna is from Proto-Slavic 22:10:54 huh, i vaguely didn't think cotton was known in europe in proto-times 22:11:04 (fi:puuvilla, also "tree wool".) 22:11:23 well maybe it's a compound of ba- and wełna 22:11:36 FreeFull: so does ba- mean tree in polish too, then? 22:11:44 Nope 22:11:58 Tree is drzewo 22:12:12 ...that doesn't prove ba- doesn't mean tree :P 22:12:21 Wood is drewno, forest is las 22:14:00 oerjan: Ba doesn't mean tree =P 22:14:07 huh america had their own cotton plants which were domesticated 22:14:36 Mr. Oarjohn 22:14:38 "During the late medieval period, cotton became known as an imported fiber in northern Europe, without any knowledge of how it was derived, other than that it was a plant; noting its similarities to wool, people in the region could only imagine that cotton must be produced by plant-borne sheep." 22:15:26 Plant-borne sheep =P 22:15:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_Lamb_of_Tartary 22:17:29 haha 22:17:51 also it was once believed that barnacle geese hatch out of goose barnacles 22:18:00 this is more meat-from-meat, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mock_Turtle 22:29:31 hi 22:29:39 horpal 22:30:41 That sounds like a rather nasty disease. :( 22:30:52 "oh the horping balls" 22:31:10 Now you made it sound like an STD 22:31:20 Rovlap 22:31:45 fizzie, Your link in the lambdabot message. It isn't working, even after enabling js on that site. 22:32:39 Let me try another browser 22:32:59 Yeah works in chrome 22:33:22 fizzie, is that a home made pano head? 22:33:23 nice 22:33:44 Really good results 22:34:34 Also I'm TRYING to install the haskell platform on this windows machine. 22:34:53 I hit a bug though where it locks up on adding stuff to PATH. For about 15 minutes per item it is adding. 22:35:08 There is a bug report open 22:38:16 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:40:00 Hah, mike4_ in ##crypto. 22:40:08 This is like some kind of pattern. 22:40:12 do you know mike4_ 22:40:13 Windows sucks, so I don't think the haskell people don't concentrate on it as much 22:40:18 also which pattern 22:40:38 mike4_ is a troll 22:40:45 great 22:40:51 is he linking to articles that prove crypto is a waste of time 22:40:58 no 22:41:05 he's just being thick 22:41:31 well i _did_ succeed in installing the haskell platform on windows (8) the other day, it may have been slow but it was relatively painless. the pain happened when i tried to run cabal install :P 22:41:33 Why would crypto be a waste of time? 22:41:36 vaguely considering joining ##crypto just to see the trolls 22:41:49 (_don't_ try to do it from inside winghci hth) 22:41:53 FreeFull: it seems to be his schtick 22:41:59 kmc: a "migratory" pattern, maybe 22:42:06 does he join #haskell and link articles to prove haskell is a waste of time 22:42:08 of people from #haskell to ##crypto 22:42:09 Without crypto there wouldn't be online banking =P 22:42:10 is that the pattern 22:43:08 08:20:25 does haskell compare in performance speed to C or C++? 22:43:08 just standard "justify haskell to me" stuff, along with linking an obvious troll article about FP sucking 22:43:08 08:22:03 it runs like python and java? 22:43:08 08:22:54 does haskell run as fast as python. 22:43:08 08:22:58 ? 22:43:08 08:23:23 but slower than c and c++ 22:43:10 08:25:23 well does Haskell apps run slower than C and C++? 22:43:13 08:25:51 faster? 22:43:23 haskell/13.05.02:09:06:34 please check that link that gives an extensive critique on FUNCTIONAL PROGRAMMING. 22:43:32 haskell/13.05.02:09:07:53 Why go functional even! Please! 22:43:38 Lol 22:44:11 great 22:44:18 your program will terminate the quickest if you print out "Segmentation fault" and exit(139) 22:44:24 Well, show me a non-functional programming language where the compiler tells you if you're doing something wrong with your red-black tree 22:44:40 hmm, mike4_ has been more prolific than i thought 22:44:43 they don't care 22:44:43 under more than one nick 22:44:46 hm, or if someone else does. 22:45:16 shachaf: any other nicks other than philosophy? 22:45:17 FreeFull: windows is a supported platform for the platform. it's just that ... argh wtf can't this touchpad control program keep my touchpad settings under control between hibernations... 22:45:24 (which I already knew about) 22:45:35 elliott: That's the one I meant. 22:45:43 haskell/13.04.24:11:58:35 hi, i thought programming was about solving peoples problems, instead of creating more. 22:45:46 mmm i really wanna see this anti-FP article 22:45:48 yes 22:45:49 haskell/13.04.24:12:07:06 can hakshell be used in the field to make real world applications? 22:45:52 no you don't 22:45:52 imo 22:46:04 these mike4_ logs are p. great 22:46:05 nooodl: it's from a blog that also contains posts about how einstein was wrong and something about AI based on the bible. 22:46:05 it's another dumb bullshit thing 22:46:10 every dumb bullshit thing you've ever seen 22:46:11 22:46:13 nooodl: so uh... maybe you actually do 22:46:14 once fucking again 22:46:25 no shut up i am the final arbiter on nooodl's opinions! 22:46:30 me too 22:46:38 Bike: http://koryos.tumblr.com/post/55022432802/ this is amazingly up your alley 22:46:50 is it about noooooodl ooooopinioooons 22:46:58 "all right guys here it is THE BIG GAY ANIMAL SEX POST" fiora. 22:47:29 fun fact: according to observations over 90% of giraffe sex is between two males 22:48:05 and it's after they duel. so basically they fight and then make out 22:48:17 giraffes more like gayraffes. 22:48:23 really though this is totally your thing. 22:48:34 fiora thinks bikes are super into gay bestiality 22:48:36 thanks 22:48:44 when I think of Bike I immediately think "fighting and then making out" 22:49:05 what are you implying 22:49:06 I think you're into evolutionary biology, doofus :p 22:49:18 also i wouldn't be surprised if prairie dogs could say "steve from accounting is super hot" 22:49:39 I think I'm hitting on you again. that seems to happen a lot 22:49:45 bicycles and their two-wheeled temptations............. 22:49:50 nooodl: http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2007/09/functional-programming-is-worse-than.html 22:49:50 "I just wanted to stick my chip in the other dip" help 22:50:01 woo 22:50:03 do prairie dogs have accounting 22:50:04 What most FP theorists fail to explain is that, in FP, the function itself is the variable. The variable value of functions are kept on the stack and are used as arguments for other functions. One function affects another. Insisting that there are no variables and thus no side effects in FP is wishful thinking at best and crackpottery at worst. 22:50:06 #drugz 22:50:10 #prairiedogz 22:50:19 shachaf: seriously, can w e not 22:50:29 Bike: nooodl asked :'( 22:50:35 nooodl!! 22:50:36 what the fuck has happened to this channel in the 2 min i was away filling out paperowkr 22:50:44 gayraffes, hth. 22:51:02 functional-programming-is-worse-than-hitler.html 22:51:02 Bike: I am enjoying the article thus far 22:51:06 * Fiora tries to hide her giggling at work at the word "gayraffes" 22:51:09 yeah it's probably good 22:51:10 Bike: want to fight and then make out? 22:51:15 i just need to give fiora a hard time 22:51:19 kmc: only if it's with elliott sorry 22:51:20 biiiiiike 22:51:22 aww 22:51:23 i always knew kmc was a bicycle 22:51:23 ok 22:51:38 kmc is a bicycle? 22:51:46 i mean it is THE BIG GAY ANIMAL SEX POST 22:51:49 i can't not make some fun 22:52:25 "Long story short, if you have a fetish, somewhere out there there is probably an animal who has it too. Congratulations." 22:52:32 I don't know if I would want to be a bike. People would alternatively lock me up and ride me. 22:52:42 esolangs.org/wiki/THE_BIG_GAY_ANIMAL_SEX_LANGUAGE 22:52:45 "Physically, there’s not much birds can do to have homosexual sex- their junk is not designed in such a way" tragic, imo 22:53:12 ion: did you get good intuition for existentials hth 22:53:31 this post reminds me of a lot of uncomfortably detailed drawings of bird sex 22:53:32 I'm not sure this isn't a parody. See "if your computer uses fine-grain parallelism (this is the future of computing, you can bet on it), FP will not support it because functions are inherently algorithmic." 22:53:43 shachaf: Some, but i’ll still need to ponder what’s going on a bit more. 22:53:45 4/10 22:53:54 ion: so did you notice that foldr :: [a] -> Mu (ListF a), and unfoldr :: Nu (ListF a) -> [a] 22:54:07 oh my, this is a photo of an elliott fisting 22:54:24 don't birds basically just rub their cloacae together 22:54:27 for like 0.5 seconds 22:54:28 Gracenotes: i assume elliott called it an obvious troll for a reason 22:54:30 i meant elephant 22:54:36 but you know what, ok. 22:54:36 Bike: ... 22:54:38 shachaf: mind. blewn. 22:54:44 it's crackpottery, not trollery 22:54:45 Bike: can you send me that picture when i'm not at work ok 22:54:48 plz and thx 22:54:53 shachaf: I hadn’t thought about that, but i can see it. 22:54:54 well, I also give crazies the benefit of the doubt 22:54:54 sure 22:54:59 i don't know when you're not at work though 22:55:07 :t unfoldr 22:55:09 (b -> Maybe (a, b)) -> b -> [a] 22:55:10 then i'll send it to my gf 22:55:13 ok i'll let you know 22:55:15 foldr :: (Maybe (a,b) -> b) -> [a] -> b 22:55:16 i'm actually reading this in front of something else, i am glad he's not paying attention 22:55:22 somebody* 22:55:33 `addquote oh my, this is a photo of an elliott fisting [...] i meant elephant but you know what, ok. Bike: ... Bike: can you send me that picture when i'm not at work ok plz and thx 22:55:37 1068) oh my, this is a photo of an elliott fisting [...] i meant elephant but you know what, ok. Bike: ... Bike: can you send me that picture when i'm not at work ok plz and thx 22:55:56 darn, no digression on sexual torture 22:56:36 that's not safe for work at moz? man... I dunno if I'd want to work there now... 22:56:53 unfortunately elliott fisting is illegal in all 52 states 22:57:23 what are the 52 states 22:57:24 underground elliott fisting ring 22:57:37 the 50 us states, the second world, and the third world? 22:57:38 Btw, the elliotts^Welephants do that for the nutrition in poop, not for kicks. 22:57:57 "If animals didn’t find sex enjoyable, would they masturbate so much? And let me tell you, if an animal can figure out a way to pleasure itself, by god it will do it all the damn time. I work with monkeys. Don’t test me." it's hard to argue here 22:58:10 itt bonobos 22:58:25 can confirm I do it for the poop nutrition 22:58:31 actually they said they weren't going to talk about bonobo sex because everyone already does that, lol 22:58:37 shachaf: the other two are classified 22:59:03 hm, the evolution of sex part is less detailed than i'd like 22:59:11 needs more mushrooms, imo 22:59:47 Haskell doesn't have variables, only constants 22:59:49 "Above: A wasp-imitating orchid. Below: A male wasp gradually losing his self-confidence." 23:00:05 it does have variables 23:00:16 f x = x*2 -- on the right hand side x is a variable 23:00:19 you know a while ago i talked to somebody said haskell didn't have variables so they didn't change 23:00:22 because* 23:00:26 so i said \x -> x + 1 23:00:27 and that was that. 23:00:40 or IOW if Haskell doesn't have variables neither does mathematics and that's where the term comes from :P 23:01:08 elliott: but the x on the left hand side is the same x 23:01:18 therefore that one is a variable too hth 23:01:23 Whoa, Man 23:01:24 Bike: That isn't a variable changing though 23:01:33 x is still x 23:01:39 ok well how about I just link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_(mathematics) 23:01:42 yes 23:01:51 different invocations could have different values of x though 23:01:53 crazy stuff 23:02:06 because I used to say this years ago and now I have to repent for it by arguing against it 23:02:12 because I was an obnoxious jerk about it to oerjan :'( 23:02:14 Bike: f :: () -> (); f x = x 23:02:19 is x a variable? 23:02:20 Well, x is a binding 23:02:24 ok whatever you just said: i don't care. 23:02:25 imo checkmate 23:02:42 FreeFull: this is seriously the same as math, man. is x a "binding" instead of a "variable" in f(x) = x²? 23:04:24 "Sex: It’s not just for sex." thanks 23:05:26 oh boy, pederastic elephants (elliotts) 23:06:36 no mention of zw chromosomes :'( 23:07:16 ion: next exercize is codensity and density hth 23:07:29 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:09:18 Bike: the platypus still has the best chromosomes 23:10:14 oh wow the last paragraph of the link nooodl asked for is so great 23:11:37 "i’m looking up stuff for my animal homosexuality post and i found a book describing sexual behavior between groups of male gray whales, the official scientific term for which is slip-and-slide orgies" i can dig it 23:11:50 .... slip and slide 23:11:59 biologists are actually amazing people 23:12:16 are we sure this isn't just biologist code for talking about their own sex 23:12:21 all of it 23:12:35 "you know those giraffes, yeah, they're, like, 90% gay. giraffes. yep" 23:12:44 masters of disguise 23:13:13 official scientific term?? 23:13:23 'oh yeah, i study, uh, platypi. yes they're real. i'll uh, i'll make you a model, don't worry. they get up to some kinky shit though lemme tell you' 23:13:40 mnoqy: yeah it's silly 23:13:57 registered with the scientific term office 23:14:16 you know they actually have that for chemistry 23:14:19 not for gay whales, unfortunately 23:16:31 hm, i forget if there's a central organization for binomial names or if they just agree... 23:20:02 wow does every binomial have its own name 23:20:44 that pun is bad + you are bad 23:21:05 I don't get it 23:21:14 yes because it's bad. 23:21:17 that pun is bad + you are bad + 0 = that pun is bad + you are bad 23:26:08 hi what is the pun 23:26:28 binomial names of species versus binomials in math 23:26:29 the end 23:26:54 wow 23:27:19 really 23:27:32 I just mapped altgr as space because my spacebar is too noisy 23:27:38 mnoqy: am i actually bad 23:27:44 imo no 23:27:58 I use altgr all the time. 23:28:02 AltGr++ 23:28:41 ion: also you know how (>>=) :: m a -> Codensity m a 23:28:50 and (=>>) :: Density w a -> w a 23:29:02 and fmap :: f a -> Yoneda f a and fmap :: CoYoneda f a -> f a 23:29:15 p. cool imo 23:29:18 I might if i knew what Codensity and Density are. And if i hadn’t already forgotten what Yoneda and CoYoneda are. 23:30:06 Actually, i do faintly remember that Yoneda was kind of partially applied fmap. Well, i wouldn’t have remembered whether that was Yoneda or CoYoneda. 23:30:37 newtype Codensity m a = Codensity { runCodensity :: forall b. (a -> m b) -> m b } 23:30:40 (>>=) :: forall m a. Monad m => m a -> forall b. (a -> m b) -> m b 23:30:45 it's p. straightforward imo 23:31:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:32:14 Huge whitespace 23:32:29 ENLARGE YOUR WHITESPACE 23:32:53 IN TEN EASY STEPS 23:33:44 ion: Yoneda is the same deal 23:33:54 aye 23:34:37 newtype Yoneda f a = Yoneda { runYoneda :: forall b. (a -> b) -> f b } 23:34:37 fmap :: Functor f => f a -> forall b. (a -> b) -> f b 23:35:18 shachaf: I think the real equivalent of Free-based Monad for Functor is 23:35:34 uh, I was going to write something here but I forgot what. 23:35:40 free-base monad > i/3 23:35:43 it involved a recursive fmap constructor 23:35:46 elliott: Whatever you were going to write, i disagree vehemently. 23:35:55 i assume that was a drugz joke 23:36:17 Bike: elliott is a bit of a forgetful functor 23:36:36 Bike: ever since the free functor left adjoint to him 23:37:20 (the joke is: a free functor is left adjoint to a forgetful functor. also drugz) 23:37:27 aghsaansdf 23:39:33 i agree with Bike 23:39:47 mnoqy: you don't like my drugz joke ?? 23:40:22 it's a bit...."aghsaansdf" 23:40:50 Fiora: http://24.media.tumblr.com/8557b8052dfb1690467ddf86bb51a4b4/tumblr_mpnxb1GuLe1rprj1yo1_1280.jpg echidna sperm. don't only pay attention to the "cool" monotremes man 23:42:07 -!- elliott__ has joined. 23:42:07 mnoqy: i bet maclane doesn't have drugz jokez 23:42:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:42:50 -!- elliott has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:43:00 -!- elliott__ has changed nick to elliott. 23:43:21 -!- heroux has joined. 23:45:11 pyrolysis of bones releases phosphine 23:45:19 truly ##electronics is a wonderful channel 23:45:59 does that mean fire 23:46:15 oh, no oxygen 23:53:42 @ping 23:53:42 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:53:42 pong 23:53:42 -!- elliott__ has joined. 23:53:45 -!- elliott__ has changed nick to elliott. 23:54:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:55:50 -!- Bike has joined. 23:56:42 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 23:57:11 this channel moves damned fast kmc 23:57:20 what channel 23:57:29 ##electronics 23:57:33 talkin' mushrooms 23:57:35 "kmconspiracy" 23:57:48 elecdrugzics 23:58:42 http://i.imgur.com/xfrUeQ4.png 23:58:45 A little confusing 2013-07-10: 00:01:45 Sgeo: have you played that game ? ''other top games''? I hear it's good 00:22:01 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:24:19 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 00:24:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:24:38 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:25:50 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 00:43:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:54:24 Bike: "In totally unrelated news, Quantum Computing Since Democritus made Scientific American’s list of best summer books! I can’t think of a more appropriate honor, since if there’s any phrase that captures what QCSD is all about, “sizzling summer beach read” would be it." 00:54:30 aaronson is really great XD 00:54:59 cookin up search algorithms on the grill 00:56:29 I'm imagining a quantum computing romance now 00:56:35 like, romance novel 00:57:01 BQP wanted to union with BPP-path, but it was not to be 01:05:03 Disney cashes in with the film adaptation "Entangled" 01:07:26 ow. 01:24:55 -!- noooodl has joined. 01:26:34 hmm, I've come up with a conclusive proof why there will never be another stargate TV series 01:28:17 the premiere of each series has dialed one extra chevron, but there are no more left 01:32:49 Jafet: omg XD 01:34:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:42:22 Bike: so I'm home now 01:42:29 i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other 01:42:50 hey, hey, i only said fisting, not mutual fisting 01:42:59 ok fine jeez 01:42:59 http://media.tumblr.com/ecf88e222a33b3c867f1eabaf09bd45b/tumblr_inline_mpog8gvrjo1r577c9.png here you go though 01:43:02 way to get a guy's hopes up 01:43:17 I guess you could also call it "trunking" 01:43:21 if you hated yourself, i mean 01:43:50 that picture is not really that sexy 01:43:51 oh well 01:47:29 who are you to judge that 01:47:35 are you an elephant 01:47:46 i'm just speaking for myself here 01:47:55 i don't look like that 01:47:56 fyi 01:48:04 like which one? 01:48:07 also 01:48:17 `addquote Bike: so I'm home now i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other 01:48:21 1069) Bike: so I'm home now i believe you owe me a picture of elephants fisting each other 01:49:15 `quote 1068 01:49:16 1068) oh my, this is a photo of an elliott fisting [...] i meant elephant but you know what, ok. Bike: ... Bike: can you send me that picture when i'm not at work ok plz and thx 01:49:22 the series 01:49:39 I love quote continuity 01:49:50 quotinuity 01:51:46 For your enjoyment: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elephant+poop 01:52:23 thank but also, no thanks 01:52:26 *s 01:53:19 I wonder if there is feta cheese about 01:53:19 hey it's limerick o'clock 01:53:24 ion: write me a limerick plz thx 01:53:38 Gracenotes: About what? 01:53:44 about 01:54:50 a bout of feta cheese 01:54:53 http://youtu.be/6h5ZLo-GO9E http://youtu.be/A2y_LEbdEVE http://youtu.be/VbPdrqdXx0g 01:54:53 @wn bout 01:54:54 *** "bout" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 01:54:54 bout 01:54:54 n 1: (sports) a division during which one team is on the 01:54:54 offensive [syn: {turn}, {bout}, {round}] 01:54:54 2: a period of illness; "a bout of fever"; "a bout of 01:54:56 [5 @more lines] 01:55:11 i bet that continues with «feta cheese"; » 01:55:12 @more 01:55:12 depression" 01:55:12 3: a contest or fight (especially between boxers or wrestlers) 01:55:12 4: an occasion for excessive eating or drinking; "they went on a 01:55:12 bust that lasted three days" [syn: {bust}, {tear}, {binge}, 01:55:12 {bout}] 01:55:17 close enough 01:55:32 they went on a bout of feta cheese that lasted three days 01:56:10 A Boba Feta cheese 01:56:10 there is a cheese which is kind of like feta but not quite feta 01:56:20 it's called "bulgarian cheese" in hebrew 01:56:29 it is popular and delicious to eat it with watermelons 01:56:37 (and also other things) 01:57:36 woah I just started cooking a chicken tortilla thing with feta cheese 01:58:47 hmm i wonder whether you can find proper gvina bulgarit in san francisco 01:59:14 i think it is made from sheep's milk usually?? 02:03:24 *swats 02:03:24 I'm really struggling here to finish a limerick with shachaf as the primary rhyme. 02:03:34 it is not an easy feat >.> 02:03:35 wrong window 02:03:48 oerjan: what was the right window 02:03:54 can you split words 02:03:59 catch aff-irmative or something 02:04:06 > (text.flap) "oerjan" 02:04:07 shachaf: we can check out http://www.yelp.com/biz/samiramis-imports-san-francisco-2 02:04:09 uɐɾɹǝo 02:04:18 "They carry the Jericho garlic spread, which permits me to have a Zankou Chicken-like garlic experience." ++++++++ 02:04:21 I miss Zankou 02:04:26 Fiora: have you been to Zankou Chicken 02:05:51 they exist in southern california 02:05:52 I might have written myself into a corner 02:06:15 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:06:42 kmc: hm http://www.samiramisimport.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=122&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 02:06:50 http://www.samiramisimport.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=123&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 02:07:03 looks good 02:07:56 maybe we can get watermelon too!! 02:08:17 can't find hours on their site, Yelp says they'll be open until 20:00 on Saturday though 02:08:25 shachaf: you can get watermelon anywhere >_< 02:08:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:08:34 there were a bunch of smashed watermelons at Church & Duboce 02:08:34 yes 02:08:39 this seems to happen a lot here 02:08:46 but you can't get watermelon & bulgarian cheese anywhere 02:08:52 people drop or throw a full bag of groceries from a third story window (??) 02:08:53 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:08:58 anyway i didn't mean at that place i meant in general 02:08:59 is "watermelon & bulgarian cheese" a traditional dish 02:09:01 ok 02:09:16 hmm is it 02:10:07 https://encrypted.google.com/images?q=אבטיח+וגבינה+בולגרית 02:10:25 nutella and sausage?? 02:10:34 uh 02:10:37 not sure about that one 02:10:50 hm I guess the palestinean cafe in Cambridge does a fruit & cheese plate that's p. good 02:11:15 http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3398/3536010056_e9a8d6c67e.jpg awwwwww <3 02:11:30 and that one picture is... watermelon and halloumi?? 02:11:39 imo "bizarre" but maybe it's good too 02:11:43 was afraid that might be more elephant fisting 02:11:45 clicked anyway 02:11:51 never had halloumi 02:12:01 halloumi is a strange cheese 02:12:06 imo you should have some sometime 02:12:10 i will! 02:12:34 you have to grill it or something 02:12:56 i'll fry it 02:12:58 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:14:24 hm 02:14:26 zankou is the besssssst 02:14:27 i suppose that works too 02:14:56 hmm is halloumi not vegetarian :'( 02:14:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:15:20 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:17:03 It’s cheese. 02:17:36 yes but is it "set with rennet" 02:18:35 Is the use of rennet really that much to stomach? 02:18:42 Jafet: heh. heh. 02:19:03 womp womp 02:19:25 these days some rennet is produced by transgenic bacteria 02:19:32 yes 02:20:15 bacteria *or* fungi I should say 02:20:36 incl. black mold fungus 02:20:59 shachaf: are you interested in cheese making? 02:21:10 cathy makes cheese sometimes, mostly when we have some milk that has gone bad 02:21:17 just acid-set cheese so far 02:21:26 it comes out like paneer or cottage cheese, depending 02:21:33 hm i don't know much about cheese-making 02:21:45 potentially interesting 02:21:52 Milk gone off big-time-stylee, eh 02:21:57 you can also get enzymes out of thistle or other plants that substitute for rennet 02:22:24 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:22:29 yes 02:22:37 wonder how much it would cost to pay someone to drive 6 hours to los angeles and get zankou chicken for me and bring it back 02:22:39 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:22:41 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:22:46 -!- Bike has left. 02:22:51 -!- Bike has joined. 02:23:12 los angeles is six hours away from san francisco????? 02:23:16 how much would it cost for them to not eat it on the way, is the real question 02:23:37 Fiora: gonna need another diagram here 02:23:42 elliott: yes approx 02:23:56 elliott: it's only about 2ms away at the speed of light ht 02:23:57 elliott: I realize that's like twice the entire length of your damp & dismal island 02:23:58 h 02:26:20 shachaf: also I found http://www.buyisraelgoods.org/scripts/mrkt_Home.asp?market_id=13&category_id=7 but maybe it's too creepy 02:28:45 why does the world need microcontrollers 02:28:50 great contribution to ##electronics imo 02:29:03 perhaps .bg bulgarian cheese > .il bulgarian cheese 02:29:08 why microcontrollers and not macrocontrollers?? 02:29:45 shachaf: we just don't know 02:30:14 someone once told me bulgarian women are the most attractive 02:30:17 he was quite insistent on this point 02:30:28 i'm not sure i've ever seen a bulgarian person 02:35:18 elliott: quick guide: (1) san francisco is in north california (2) los angeles is in the other california (3) california is big 02:35:48 (3) is quite difficult or me 02:35:50 *for 02:35:56 best california 02:36:23 elliott: basically imagine like, at least a hundred welsh people in a pile? that's like almost as big as california 02:36:54 come on, it's not even as far as London to Glasgow 02:37:11 so if it can target GCC, it could be possible to modify Glasgow to work with gcc-avr and use haskell for AVR micro controller 02:37:18 But then we would need a special Haskell dialect that would allow us to modify register directly and embeded Assembly inside it (in the impure main function, as IO type) 02:37:40 kmc: london and glasgow are literally in different countries 02:37:41 no stop. 02:37:47 Hexham to Dover 02:37:54 nobody wants to go to dover 02:37:59 what about the cliffs 02:38:04 fuck 02:38:05 the cliffs 02:38:11 elliott: would you vote yes on scottish independence 02:38:13 elliott: same kingdom though 02:38:23 kmc: probably 02:38:44 why do you even live in a kingdom 02:38:47 their politics are a bit less fucked 02:38:54 probably i would then have to move to scotland though 02:39:03 and then i would freeze to death 02:39:40 alright are you all ready for some Bad Java Code 02:39:49 gb2tdwtf 02:39:56 my friend works for a school and his undergrads decided they needed to write a calendar 02:39:56 that said, continue. 02:39:59 http://pastebin.com/qzngL9iE 02:40:27 -!- Rig has joined. 02:40:29 kmc: why do you ask anyway 02:40:33 `relcome Rig 02:40:36 ​Rig: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:40:39 i don't understand 02:40:48 people need to learn the basic visual technique 02:40:54 of seeing code that looks the same seven times on the screen 02:40:56 of freezing to death? 02:40:57 oh 02:41:05 this should cause you to feel a sensation similar to spiders trying to crawl up your butthole 02:41:22 I think CS education needs more Ludovico Technique 02:41:23 kmc's interests: elephant fisting, spider butthole invasions 02:41:29 , drugz 02:41:31 elliott: don't forget drug 02:41:32 efb 02:41:59 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:42:10 good way to welcome Rig 02:42:11 imo 02:42:16 yes 02:42:22 Could be worse. 02:42:34 rig could have been a spider butthole fetishist. 02:42:38 I'm the one refactoring the code Bike shared. 02:42:42 it takes all kinds 02:42:47 ah good luck w/ that 02:42:48 `WeLcOmE Rig 02:42:51 RiG: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 02:43:06 `? welcome.es 02:43:10 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 02:43:13 `? bienvenue 02:43:19 i'm ust in love with "this.add(new Day(OfTheWeek.Monday, 1, 0));" 02:43:20 Bienvenue sur le centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d'informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l'autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 02:43:23 `tervetuloa Bike 02:43:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tervetuloa: not found 02:43:26 Bike: I like their anonymous ArrayList subclass 02:43:30 hey what did youc all me 02:43:36 @ask ion to fix `tervetuloa hth 02:43:36 Consider it noted. 02:43:45 Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product? 02:44:00 either that or it means "welcome" in finnish 02:44:12 don't finnish people welcome with fermented fish products 02:44:13 kmc: can't it be both 02:44:17 and "tervemenoa" means "good riddance" 02:44:21 anyway, so many lines of code, I'm impressed. The author must have at least twice as many lines of code as his coworker. What a chump, that guy. 02:44:41 `addquote Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product? either that or it means "welcome" in finnish 02:44:44 1070) Bike: i think it's a fermented fish product? either that or it means "welcome" in finnish 02:44:46 you're on a roll today kmc 02:44:49 thx 02:44:53 I think I may be trying too hard 02:45:03 that's ok, we all are 02:45:11 zzo38 isn't 02:45:35 the key to trying too hard is to try harder, but try less frequently. 02:45:42 wise 02:46:02 same overall amount of hardness 02:47:24 what's wrong with that java code "looks good to me" 02:47:33 `smlist (410) 02:47:34 smlist (410): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 02:47:49 ah yes it's that time of tuesday/thursday evening 02:47:51 again 02:48:28 olist and smlist in the same day 02:48:38 what was the exploit that used a previously unknown MD5 weakness? 02:49:11 every md5 weakness was previously unknown 02:49:34 perhaps you are thinking of the ""flame"" thing 02:50:27 yes, the recent one; I was reminded of it (though not the name) reading about Stuxnet 02:50:34 elliott: america is *really really huge* 02:50:36 like unreasonable huge 02:50:42 at least twice as big as wales 02:51:03 Fiora: agreed re: unreasonable 02:51:18 austerity measure to save america money: cut down on size??? you really don't need all that country 02:51:29 well it's not like we use all of it 02:51:30 it's scary. you're intimidating all the other countries 02:51:32 we p. much just need the coasts 02:51:34 alaska and hawaii were just flagrant wastes of money 02:51:35 except like russia 02:51:36 the density drops off pretty hilariously in the middle 02:51:37 Really, Texas could be sold. 02:51:40 the least coast and the best code 02:51:42 coast 02:51:44 basically the US is like any normal country except everything is 5 times farther apart 02:51:50 initial and terminal objects in the category of coasts 02:51:56 russia doesn't count since they just have everything in the west 02:52:06 the West Coast isn't really a coast 02:52:07 -!- qxr has joined. 02:52:09 and in the east they still have reindeer herders, because are you going to bother someone who lives in fucking siberia 02:52:11 kind of disqualifies it 02:52:26 Gracenotes: you aren't really a coast :'( 02:52:31 america's size stems from them stretching out a far smaller area of land to make the most of what they had 02:52:37 during the war of independence in 1 BC 02:52:46 I am totally a coaster 02:52:48 `relcome qxr 02:52:50 ​qxr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:52:54 stop relcoming everyone 02:52:56 you'll wear it out 02:53:07 relcome is the best welcome, sorry 02:53:08 `welcome elliott 02:53:10 elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:53:15 not sure we even need the others 02:53:16 Rig: but who would buy texas. 02:53:19 relcome does seem the best. 02:53:26 `WELCOME Rig 02:53:28 RIG: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 02:53:34 Nah, still not better. 02:53:37 I mean, Mexico has tons of empty space 02:53:40 Rig: You haven't seen half of the welcomes! 02:53:44 but everyone still insists on living in Mexico City 02:53:45 I... 02:53:48 You have no place to say things like that. 02:54:07 Bike tells me that HackEgo actually creates a VM for every command. 02:54:08 The fullwidth welcome is still there, right? 02:54:27 `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　Rig 02:54:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　Rig: not found 02:54:31 Rig: sort of 02:54:33 `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ Rig 02:54:35 it uses user mode ilnux 02:54:35 ​ＲＩＧ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ　ＡＮＤ　ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ 02:54:42 not quite as heavy as a full vm but still "booting a kernel" 02:54:45 hey, hey, why'd it cut off 02:54:50 Bike: irc length limits hth 02:54:52 Ah. 02:54:52 Bike: too biug 02:54:55 like america 02:54:57 oh nooooo 02:55:03 unfortunately there are no country length limits :( 02:55:11 elliott: hey not everybody in america is "fullwidth" 02:55:12 imo, alias `america to `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ 02:55:42 Rig: it's also under version control! so it's like at least thirty times better than the code at your job. 02:55:54 shachaf: is that a fat joke? 02:56:02 Bike: Nah, we're under version control. 02:56:19 SVN is not really my idea of good version control though. 02:56:28 see. HackEgo is on, like. git? probably. 02:56:48 hackego uses hg 02:56:54 because Gregor is kind of a weirdo 02:56:57 close enough imo 02:57:10 I'd settle for hg or git. But my boss dislikes distributed version control for some reason. 02:57:13 no discussion of weird things here. 02:58:01 Fiora: i thought it was a response to one 02:58:07 Rig: use hg or git with the final backend being some boring centralized thing, with say a code review system in between. 02:58:24 Hahaha. Code review. 02:58:24 no, elliott was just talking about america having "a lot of territory", if you know what i mean. 02:58:34 what i mean is the same as what i literally said, btw 02:58:48 wait it's a rig 02:58:55 bike did you invite a rig in here 02:59:02 big rigs over the road racing 02:59:05 yes we're all in the same other channel dunkass 02:59:08 I'm being optimisticic 02:59:22 Bike told me there was no optimism in this channel. 02:59:38 i am optimistic 02:59:38 I think he introduced it as being full of cool people that hate programming. 02:59:48 well, unfortunately, kmc recently got a cool job 02:59:54 so people are in a good mood about programming 02:59:56 it's terrible. 03:00:03 no I still hate programming 03:00:09 shachaf: ##nomic hth 03:00:15 elliott hates everything 03:00:17 oerjan: ? 03:00:28 actually I don't hate programming 03:00:29 but it's annoying 03:00:29 i sometimes wish elliott didn't hate things so much :'( 03:00:40 are you saying you hate my hatred of things 03:00:43 no 03:00:46 he just wouldn't be the same elliott if he had a healthy, sustainable outlook on life 03:00:52 gee thanks Bike 03:01:03 Bike: hatred is sustainable 03:01:10 gee thanks shachaf 03:01:13 > (text.flap) "uɐɾɹǝo" 03:01:16 oǝɹɾɐ¿ 03:01:28 general hatred from a person, or specific hatred of a person? 03:01:48 the latter is usually more sustainable than the former. 03:02:06 look man, i'm not a "hatred expert". I have people for that. People and elephants. 03:02:17 Gracenotes: is that like initial and terminal objects 03:02:22 in the category of h8rs 03:02:33 and h8ees 03:02:41 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 03:02:47 well i mean there's always an identity morphism 03:02:53 so everyone hates themselves 03:02:55 "axioms" 03:02:56 hey people remember when this channel made sense 03:03:00 yeah me neither 03:03:07 it made sense before you joined 03:03:09 it's like a category but with no identities. the best kind. 03:03:09 category theory "makes sense". 03:03:19 Gracenotes: that's called a semigroupoid 03:03:19 Bike: does this honestly look like category theory to you 03:03:33 no, it looks like shachaf. 03:03:37 shachaf: no u 03:03:37 i assume shachaf is a category. 03:03:40 what does shachaf look like 03:03:55 monoidal. 03:04:04 * Fiora hugs Rig here too then 03:04:19 omg you can't just ask what shachaf looks like 03:04:28 you have to put him in diagrams and ask if they commute 03:04:37 commute where 03:04:50 kmc: should i have a hair cut y/n 03:04:54 it's intransitive 03:04:55 my hair is getting annoying 03:05:06 esp. in this weather etc. 03:05:09 to you or to others? 03:05:18 to me 03:05:22 shachaf: i don't remember how much hair you have 03:05:28 however if you don't like having that much, you should get it cut 03:05:33 you will look good either way 03:05:46 well that goes without saying hth 03:06:03 on july 25 2011 i shaved all my hair 03:06:17 Rig: hey you'll probably hear an equally terrible joke along these lines like at least once in the future here so I'm gonna get it out the way with: 03:06:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:06:26 and then went for a few hours of walking in the sun and got a sunburn :'( 03:06:27 Rig: the best thing about you is that you're never negative 03:06:38 i... don't get it 03:06:39 everyone who got that feel free to kill me 03:06:49 man that's also the best thing about functors 03:07:13 i bet oerjan got it 03:07:15 Yeah, I don't get it. 03:07:25 is "positive rig" a thing... 03:07:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rig_(mathematics) 03:07:34 I'm sorry 03:07:39 i already hate this. 03:07:53 Oh, yeah. 03:07:54 oh. right. ring -> rig. 03:07:57 i hate mathematicians. 03:07:58 elliott: without the requirement that each element has an additive inverse 03:08:02 they still can 03:08:08 and every ring is a rig "etc "etc"" 03:08:12 in retrospect that was colossally terrible on so many levels 03:08:17 foo 03:08:21 Mathematicians and computer scientists should stop naming things. 03:08:27 == 03:08:32 but we have so many things! 03:08:35 := 03:08:40 oh I love things 03:08:55 things are too negative 03:08:57 i prefers thigs 03:10:10 lol 03:10:19 Rig had a lot of foresight to name themselves after a mathematical abstraction. 03:10:44 I was prepared. 03:10:48 why is there no good one-word name for a commutative semiring 03:10:51 well probably it wasn't foresight, I suspect Rig had insider knowledge about it 03:10:55 you could say the whole thing was 03:10:55 rigged 03:11:05 what the fuck was that, elliott. 03:11:08 what the fuck was that. 03:11:10 I DON'T EVEN KNOW 03:11:10 shachaf: let's start with a commutative group 03:11:11 i a disgusted. 03:11:13 am. 03:11:14 I'm not myself. 03:11:18 so disgusted i can't use words. 03:12:29 the pun hate is too strong in this area 03:12:33 in dis area. 03:12:47 these puns aren't pleasant or helpful to us please stop 03:12:57 i can't take puns 03:13:09 fnqchaf 03:13:32 but these puns are purrfect 03:13:52 "purr" is the worst pun 03:13:58 -!- shachaf has left. 03:14:02 w-what >_< 03:14:22 eesh, I really shouldn't catpun around him should I ... 03:14:54 when you're a pun-hater, everything around you looks like a nail... pun. 03:15:01 yeah, what Gracenotes said. 03:16:27 a pail? alt. a nun. 03:17:02 filling pails? 03:17:02 is that an anagram 03:17:31 ping faillls? i dunno 03:19:25 shachaf being weird again eh 03:24:51 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:28:00 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 03:28:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:33:15 elliott: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=area+of+california+%2F+area+of+united+kingdom hth 03:33:24 oerjan: not clicking, too scary 03:35:05 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+california+%2F+population+of+united+kingdom 03:35:32 UK has one more elliott than california 03:35:40 so we're winning 03:36:16 you were winning anyway 03:36:32 but the US has one more fiora >:3 03:36:48 oh yeah well..... actually i guess bikes are common in both places 03:37:38 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=number+of+bikes+in+california nooooo 03:37:50 UK is geographically closer to oerjans!!! 03:38:05 gotta use everything we got here 03:38:25 Common campus transportation | Exercise room lineup | Exercises outdoors | Items in a rack | Some exercise equipment 03:41:34 -!- shachaf has joined. 03:41:56 kmc: are you going to read JaffaCake's book when it comes out next month 03:42:16 _Parallel and Concurrent Programming in Haskell_ 03:42:20 maybe 03:43:11 Always the right answer. 03:43:24 always a correct answer 03:43:27 rarely the right answer 03:43:34 anyway this book is looking p. great 03:45:48 anyone have the hott book? 03:46:11 I have a PDF! 03:46:15 me too 03:46:19 lol 03:46:21 probably will never read it & feel miserable 03:47:10 copumpkin: should i get the paper version & read it 03:47:18 not sure 03:47:29 I ordered a copy and will tell you three years from now when I get a chance to read it 03:47:37 :'( 03:47:43 hey did you read that one story thing 03:47:46 shachaf: ##nomic was the right window hth 03:48:01 also this scrollback is large 03:48:02 oerjan: thx plz hth 03:48:49 > (text.flap) "oǝɹɾɐ¿" 03:48:52 uɐɾɹǝo 03:49:09 Jafet: ☝ 03:49:15 Jafet: plz fix thx hth 03:49:37 kmc: should i bring any paper books with me for you to read 03:50:43 Bike: oh should i read some of the other clavell books other than _Shōgun_ 03:50:59 they have them for $not much at the used bookstore 03:51:07 is that the Japanese chess book? 03:51:28 er, hm, that's Shogi 03:51:34 no chess involved "sry" 03:51:51 i bet oerjan got it <-- yep 03:51:59 is that the Japanese cheese book? 03:52:02 "James Clavell's Shōgun is an interactive fiction computer game written by Dave Lebling and released by Infocom in 1989." 03:52:06 ???? 03:52:23 uh ih aven't read clavell 03:52:48 uh hi to you too 03:52:53 and "o k" 03:53:36 oerjan: good 03:53:45 copumpkin: well can you tell me about the uh printing quality or something 03:53:49 hi 03:54:03 who cares about physical books vs. pdfs they're both pretty good imo 03:54:20 copumpkin: is it a "proper book" or just a bunch of pages badly glued together or what 03:54:25 Bike: imo screens are bad hth 03:54:44 proper book 03:54:48 apparently high quality 03:56:00 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+california+*+area+of+california+%2F+%28population+of+united+kingdom+*+area+of+united+kingdom%29 much more reasonable! 03:56:21 oerjan: whoa, dude 03:56:41 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+united+states+*+area+of+united+states+%2F+%28population+of+united+kingdom+*+area+of+united+kingdom%29 03:57:23 what i'm getting out of this is the UK needs more Fioras if it wants to keep pace. 03:57:40 how do you get Fioras 03:58:11 mountains of plush 03:58:21 you put them under boxes 03:58:22 Immigration? 03:58:24 like how you catch rabbits 03:58:53 mountain-sized boxes 03:59:09 according to daki they're made out of moe, I think? 03:59:14 shachaf: bring me a smullyan book 03:59:20 shachaf: plz fix text.flap hth 03:59:30 oerjan: Jafet wrote it. Jafet can fix it 03:59:31 shachaf: bring kmc the smullyan book with the kingdom of laughter 03:59:44 Bike: hmm i was going to bring a different one 03:59:53 you could bring the different one instead 03:59:54 Bike: maybe i'll bring both 03:59:58 there are options 04:00:16 what if I told you anyone can fix it 04:01:40 shachaf: oh ok. 04:01:48 can't guarantee i'll finish reading them in a reasonable amount of time 04:01:51 oerjan: Oh, mauke's original flap was good. 04:02:00 what does flap do 04:02:01 kmc: what about a bounded amount of time 04:02:06 @quote mauke flap 04:02:06 mauke says: let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\ 04:02:06 x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" 04:02:11 oh that's pretty good. 04:02:17 > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ (flap.flap) "oerjan" 04:02:18 oerjan 04:02:23 > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ flap "oerjan" 04:02:24 uɐɾɹǝo 04:02:41 the upside down j is kind of bad 04:03:01 > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ flap "bicycle" 04:03:02 ǝlɔʎɔıq 04:03:12 wow that ı is depressing 04:03:14 that's more like it 04:03:18 ok tru 04:03:27 > let flap=map(ap fromMaybe(`lookup`t).toLower).reverse where t=zip k v++zip v k;k="6abcdefghijkmnrtvwy[({?!'<_;\x203f\x2045\x2234";v="9\x250q\x254p\x1dd\x25f\x183\x265\x131\x27e\x29e\x26fu\x279\x287\x28c\x28d\x28e\x2d9])}\xbf\xa1,>\x203e\x61b\x2040\x2046\x2235" in text $ flap "telemarketer" 04:03:28 ɹǝʇǝʞɹɐɯǝlǝʇ 04:03:34 there we go 04:03:41 qxr: see? programming 04:03:57 I never indicated anything to the contrary! 04:03:58 More like running programs. 04:04:03 mauke is the programmer here. 04:04:07 is this another Bike program 04:04:08 ... 04:04:10 see? mauke 04:04:12 is this another Bike person 04:04:22 there is only one bike, we've been over this 04:04:31 well Fiora is a Bike person 04:04:32 needs more fixpoint 04:04:33 and Rig is 04:04:36 and qxr 04:04:38 bike person...? 04:04:43 and maybe Sgeo_?????? 04:04:46 a bike/human hybrid 04:04:48 or maybe Bike is an Sgeo_ person 04:04:48 er, needs more self-inverse 04:04:51 by Bike person I mean someone Bike brought. like Rig. 04:04:55 I'm just askin'! 04:05:03 No, I'm just here. 04:05:08 rig is not a number, he is a free man 04:05:12 we could all aspire to be here, imo 04:05:13 Not really. 04:07:42 I don't even own a bike. 04:07:56 Bike is a free bicycle 04:13:05 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:24:14 Bike: a hyphen in a binomial just means that the second term is negative hth 04:25:24 fuck you man 04:31:34 -!- qxr has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:38:09 copumpkin: Hmm, I think they keep updating the book or something. 04:38:27 yeah, it's on github 04:39:03 copumpkin: I mean the printed version. 04:39:12 Published July 8, 2013 04:39:21 sure, no point in printing older versions :) 04:41:01 but I'm sure any state of the book is still valuable 04:41:04 which is why I bought a copy 04:41:12 even though it'll probably be out of date within a few days :P 04:41:27 i suppose 04:41:40 perhaps less point if you're not going to read it 04:41:48 oh but at least I'll have it 04:41:49 i think y'all are weird 04:41:52 it's like getting the giant SUV 04:41:56 you never know when you might ned it 04:42:09 better just destroy ozone to be safe 04:42:18 it could grow fangs later 04:42:35 copumpkin: don't you have enough giant suvs 04:42:42 I have 0 :( 04:42:47 right 04:42:49 which is like 1 too many 04:43:05 well once you accept that negative giant suvs exist 04:43:17 presumably they pay you money to take them 04:43:26 so why wouldn't you get a lot 04:43:59 hmm, good idea 04:45:02 well, it means you lose antigold, which makes it harder to fly 04:45:55 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_cuisine 04:46:01 mmm, tarator 04:58:57 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 05:01:10 https://twitter.com/nedroid/status/354821827924733952 05:02:17 hmm you should follow me on twitter 05:02:41 all my tweets seem to be good so far 05:02:53 how good we talkin 05:03:19 1d1000 05:03:19 shachaf: 701 05:03:22 701 05:03:34 the twitter average is 05:03:36 1d1000 05:03:36 shachaf: 954 05:03:39 954 05:03:40 hm 05:03:51 ok something is broken here 05:03:58 the pigworker average is 05:03:59 1d1000 05:04:00 shachaf: 598 05:04:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:04:06 is lower better? 05:04:47 i'm not a "twitter expert". 05:04:58 Bike's average is 05:04:59 1d1000 05:04:59 shachaf: 473 05:05:04 ok this is making no sense 05:05:25 Bike: the point is, you should follow me so i can spam you with special promotions 05:05:35 individualized, targeted 05:05:38 oh no 05:05:43 sales and events that may be of interest to you 05:05:49 places to put your money 05:05:51 hth 05:06:02 @tell Taneb a Jake cosplayer trying to to eroticly lick a gun 05:06:02 Consider it noted. 05:06:39 Bike: why are you trying to destroy Taneb's mind tnh 05:06:42 *tdnh 05:07:00 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:07:16 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 05:07:50 * shachaf swats oerjan -----### 05:07:58 help 05:08:07 mnoqy: want a hug 05:08:09 oerjan's gone mad with power 05:08:13 nah im fine 05:08:14 copumpkin: are you a "hug person" 05:09:55 I don't do it spontaneously much but I don't mind it at all 05:12:16 hm 05:14:12 Bike: i'm sorry but swatting FireFly is an ancient #esoteric tradition. 05:14:58 oerjan is an ancient #esoteric tradition 05:15:15 FireFly, on the other hand, has a lifespan of ~2 months 05:21:42 -!- Yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:22:10 `quote 151 05:22:12 151) elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. 05:23:43 wise words to live by 05:23:57 -!- Rig has quit (Quit: ejecting warp core). 05:25:31 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:34:19 oh boy i thnk i better put on some eye protection cuz half of a transistor shot off and hit my window 05:34:33 @tell Vorpal Oh, it's very home-made, and still a bit work-in-progress. E.g. the pitch control (for taking multi-row shots) works by loosening/tightening the top screw with a hex key (from some IKEA furniture, I think) and a small wrench; I was going to drill some more holes so that I could lock it to pre-set positions with a pin. 05:34:33 Consider it noted. 05:34:38 @tell Vorpal Also the mine lake stage photo on the Flickr page (p1180390-437) has some visible seams at the walkway leading to the stage; the panohead worked just fine, but the floating stage itself kept floating around, not much it can do about that. 05:34:38 Consider it noted. 05:35:45 kmc: wow i have that same problem 05:37:36 hi oerjan 05:43:42 Hi, oerjan. Ho, er, Jan. 05:45:18 hi ho 06:37:42 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:43:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:44:50 I am still internally debating whether to email Ian Stewart about further reading or not 06:45:04 do it come on 06:45:09 emailing smart people is great 06:46:23 I am not very good at it! 06:47:25 you'll probably just get a form response gees 06:47:30 I'm with Bike 06:47:50 Maybe I could ask Phantom_Hoover to track him down 06:49:19 Taneb->elliott ~ Phantom_Hoover -> Ian Stewart 06:50:10 what 06:50:24 Yes 06:51:07 I wonder if he plays Dwarf Fortress 06:57:05 who's Ian Stewart 07:00:35 A mathematician and pop science author 07:01:25 17 Equations Guiltied to a Zegnatronic Rocket Society 07:01:45 his book on astrobiology was p. great 07:03:30 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:04:51 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:07:07 kmc, define:zegnatronic 07:07:51 @wn zegnatronic 07:07:53 No match for "zegnatronic". 07:08:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:08:26 Woah Nebster? 07:09:15 word invented by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chu 07:10:11 hi Taneb 07:10:23 Hi 07:11:04 so i found a pretty good "stupid future" thing 07:11:12 not to be confused with Frank Cho 07:11:12 remember back when bin laden was assassinated and that one guy tweeted it? 07:11:21 this writing style reminds me of zzo38 a bit but not a lot: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CAOsGNSQ4dEn%2B_k4iSwiPDgjYzzpOgVogYxmH99nugjX5OvkzPg%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=yaml-core 07:11:45 actually it's not very zzo38y 07:12:07 shachaf is training to be a forensic expert in distinguishing real zzo38 writings from forgeries 07:12:42 A noble cause 07:12:52 zzitings 07:13:28 Bike: i don't remember 07:13:53 ok well 07:14:18 "Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1 am. (is rare event)" "Go away helicopter before I get my giant swatter" 07:14:21 etc. 07:14:36 (referring to the SEAL copters, not that he knew that) 07:14:47 i thought they were... stealth 07:14:58 four of them were but they brought some bigger ones too 07:15:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:15:06 doesn't that kind of defeat the point 07:15:09 cause that's how stealth works 07:15:13 they had the stealth ones land first 07:15:14 Remember when C. Julius Caesar was assassinated and some guy tweeted about it 07:15:28 ANYWAY since tweets are precisely timed, pakistan's investigatory commission quotes his tweets in their report 07:15:31 and calls him the most reliable witness 07:15:56 more reliable than one of the bodyguards' wives, or a neighbor who the SEALs tied up 07:16:22 has anyone made a cryptocurrency which uses twitter as a timestamping service 07:16:28 well, you can't get much more reliable than having a twitter. 07:16:42 the other witnesses are seriously bad, it's kind of great 07:17:00 hey you should follow me on twitter 07:17:00 some random soldier who happened to be nearby, obviously making shit up to justify not going to look 07:17:17 shachaf: imo tweet about illegal military operations first. 07:18:02 the thing i really don't get about the helicopters is that one of them crashed 07:18:07 that seems like, kind of a pretty bad fuckup 07:18:19 when you're a hundred miles into semi-enemy territory? 07:19:19 "The Commission noticed that he produced no evidence of his statements and accordingly no weight could be given to his assertions" sample quote re other witnesses 07:25:53 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:29:51 kmc, elliott: yeah, it was black hawks and then chinooks. 07:30:12 how stealthy are stealth helicopters really 07:30:20 like it seems pretty hard to hide a helicopter 07:30:37 they flew really low to the ground and knew where the radar stations were 07:31:02 but i mean, yeah, seems like kind of a fuckup n the part of the pakistani military. 07:31:04 Why not use a jeep or so 07:31:09 Mwthing 07:31:12 Bah 07:32:26 well have you seen pakistan 07:32:37 kinda hilly 07:33:35 My mum I 07:33:39 -!- carado has joined. 07:33:46 Used to live there 07:34:17 in the north or near islamabad? 07:35:02 well, really north, i guess :V 07:35:26 Karachi, I think 07:35:32 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:37:11 Without typos I would have said, "My mum used to live there" 07:37:25 oh, i thought that was "My mum & I" 07:37:53 Nah, my phone keyboard is annoying 07:38:44 It was where my mum learnt to speak Italian 07:38:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:43:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:43:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:46:18 learning to speak italian in pakistan, aha 07:46:35 Taneb: your family has a strange relationship to countries hth 07:51:15 were you an embassy kid? 07:52:33 (i assume you no longer are because, hexham) 07:52:52 joke about hexham not being part of england 07:54:34 (well also you are no longer a kid, come to think of it. damn you people grow fast.) 07:54:58 wow oerjan doesn't know about the hexham embassies 07:55:10 indeed. 07:55:36 i suppose it would be a fine place for unexpected embassies, men of black style 07:55:43 *men in black 07:56:37 wait this is why elliott and Taneb can never meet: one of them is an alien. now we just have to find out which one. 07:57:22 (also whichever it is, i'd like a lift off planet, thank you) 07:59:37 they're both aliens hth 08:00:16 wait Taneb was a goat? 08:01:11 -!- AndroUser2 has joined. 08:01:25 Taneb: are you the one in http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=392 08:01:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: No route to host). 08:01:52 -!- AndroUser2 has changed nick to Taneb. 08:03:18 I was not an embassy kid. My gramdfather worked for some NGO making a dam in Pakistan when my mum was a child. 08:05:05 The project was managed by an Italian company 08:05:09 aha 08:07:00 My dad was an australian I T contractor who moved to the UK looking for work where he met my mum 08:07:55 His parents had emigrated to Australia from the Netherlands in the fifties for reasons I forget 08:09:03 My mum's mum was born in California because her dad had a job managing a paint factory there. 08:09:27 None of them claimed US citizenship. 08:10:12 That is a lot of the weird stuff in my family relating to countries 08:10:47 I have skipped the bit about Ghana because 08:10:56 I do not know enough 08:11:14 ...you were doing so well until that last bit :P 08:12:43 It was similar to Pakistan except my mum hadn't been born yet and I think it was with the military 08:14:12 There are rumours of Spanish ancestors on my mum's side and Sri Lankan on my dad's side 08:14:45 oerjan: sounds to me like Taneb is the alien 08:15:10 shachaf: yeah that's quite implausibly complicated for an earthling 08:16:30 My gran has lived on every continent bar south america and antarctica 08:17:17 That's a lot of continent bars. 08:18:39 Shush 08:22:47 I am proud to be the creator of the esolang with the longest name 08:23:43 longer than the maximum length of a wiki title? 08:24:10 No b because that would be stupid 08:24:39 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? 08:24:53 I will not be impressed unless it is longer than the maximum length of a wiki page 08:25:15 Nay, longer than the number of atoms in the known universe 08:25:34 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 08:25:38 oh but yeah a mouthful to pronounce would also be p. good. 08:25:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:25:55 Is that really the esolang with the longest name? 08:26:04 * shachaf finds that difficult to believe. 08:26:12 Last time I checked 08:26:46 Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch 08:26:57 slightly shorter than that 08:27:15 It is longer than Compiler Language With No Pronouncable Acronym 08:28:00 everything in pronouncable 08:28:20 you just add schwas everywhere 08:29:31 *is 08:30:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 08:30:47 of course the welsh just laugh at the idea that clwnpa is unpronouncable. 08:31:20 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:37:08 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:52:45 Jafet: I'm stealing a patch of yours for NetHack 4. How would you like to be credited? 09:21:19 -!- johnny57 has joined. 09:27:11 Via money transfer thanks 09:30:38 "The pirate stole a patch" 09:32:08 "After applying the patch, he placed a hook in a patchy tomcat" 09:33:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:34:35 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 09:43:53 I guess it's the unidentification patch. Wow, there are more strstrs in here than I remember. 09:50:48 -!- tswett_ has joined. 09:53:39 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 09:57:53 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 09:57:53 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 10:05:58 Jafet: invoking the book 10:06:11 required for permablind 10:11:27 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:17:21 Damn there are real alien nazis http://www.alienandufopictures.com/ufo_pictures.html 10:17:37 :-! 10:18:09 `relcome johnny57 10:18:13 ​johnny57: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 10:23:18 thank you 10:25:00 -!- johnny57 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:25:58 -!- ion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:29:59 coppro: well, you might want to change one of the lines in oracles.txt when you apply the patch. For, you know, the people who still visit the Oracle and stuff. 10:31:04 "If thou maintainest the utmost calm, thy safety will be aided greatly, but beware lest thy clumsy feet scuff the inscription, cancelling its potence." 10:33:31 I wisheth that the Oracle spake with less platitudinal bullshit 10:34:31 @quote platitud 10:34:31 ddarius says: "use the right platitude for the job" 10:41:02 -!- ion has joined. 10:46:42 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:01:45 -!- elliott has joined. 11:02:23 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest17879. 11:03:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:09:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:11:34 Hi 11:14:14 -!- carado has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:22:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:27:49 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:27:58 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:28:24 -!- surma has joined. 11:28:55 -!- surma has left. 11:45:57 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:53:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:00:54 http://www.develop-online.net/news/44746/Valves-perfect-hiring-hierarchy-has-hidden-management-clique-like-High-School 12:01:03 I feel weirdly validated. 12:23:13 Phantom_Hoover, oh? 12:30:35 Vorpal, all the Valve handbook stuff etc. always annoyed me; they're far too proud of themselves for 'eliminating' the usual problems with institutional hierarchies. 12:31:23 * Vorpal looks up Valve handbook 12:31:29 -!- augur has joined. 12:31:47 Ah 12:44:19 -!- boily has joined. 12:48:12 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 12:50:19 -!- boily has joined. 13:10:02 For a moment there I was thinking about regular, you know, valves. 13:10:15 There are probably books about valves. 13:10:33 -!- carado has joined. 13:22:35 -!- tromp__ has joined. 13:22:51 -!- coppro_ has joined. 13:29:32 -!- myndzl has joined. 13:29:37 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 13:29:38 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 13:29:38 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 13:29:39 -!- tromp_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:42:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:42:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Changing host). 13:42:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:47:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:48:21 Went to see Osbourne House today 13:50:34 Was pretty good 13:52:15 Jul 09 22:56:44 hackego uses hg 13:52:15 Jul 09 22:56:49 because Gregor is kind of a weirdo 13:52:22 I feel like EVENTUALLY people will realize that git is horrible. 13:52:26 -!- itsy has joined. 13:53:05 git is good. git is your friend. have you heard of our Lord Git? 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or democracy? 16:04:09 Probably. 16:08:13 * kmc is not convinced. 16:17:09 hm I don't have Finland dogs nearby 16:23:16 But you do have Finland trees, then? 16:29:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:30:50 -!- Bike has joined. 16:34:17 ...no! :'( 16:38:09 -!- jconn has joined. 16:41:24 -!- Guest28572 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:44:19 -!- Suchorski has joined. 16:48:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:08:15 -!- Guest28572 has joined. 17:35:43 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 17:53:43 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:55:24 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:57:34 -!- Guest28572 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:23:13 Heh, I clicked on a link and all pages of that website crashed in chrome. That is across all the tabs that were open on that page. 18:28:50 isn't chrome supposed to have completely isolated tabs, where one crash can't propagate as a tribble infestation among everything? 18:29:06 there are several tabs per process 18:32:42 there are several chromes, with several process, with several tabs, with several goats, then it's turtles all the way to the kernel. 18:46:42 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:48:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:50:05 -!- Guest17879 has changed nick to elliott. 18:57:41 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:59:43 lambdabot: hi! 19:00:44 For some reason, OpenStreetMap tabs in Chromium have a habit of crashing if left unattended. 19:00:49 Don't know what's up with that. 19:01:49 hm. lambdabot is silent again. what about fungot? 19:02:12 aaaaaah! I need my fungot fix! 19:04:58 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 19:05:35 How To Crack Open a Coconut http://youtu.be/M0S8RlFuaVo 19:05:52 * boily prods fizzie with a rubber cuttlefish "ME WANT FUNGOT!" 19:06:12 `tervetuloa hth 19:06:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tervetuloa: not found 19:06:24 shachaf: Seems to work fine. 19:07:48 ion: :'( 19:09:27 ion: where are my services 19:10:02 I swallowed them, sorry. 19:14:14 ion: did you know your irc client prefixes ops with a @ 19:15:01 Vorpal: I'm stitching those Otaniemi pictures, and there's one (almost-)full-globe where the zenith images are of completely clear blue sky. Surprisingly, there are some problems defining control points for the blue rectangles. 19:15:15 elliott: That was a great revelation. 19:16:10 "channel 2: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed" huh 19:16:22 (SSH port forward message.) 19:16:22 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 19:17:38 An alternative way to crack open a coconut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkCZRnB3VFg 19:17:53 hion 19:17:55 I think it should have given more information. Something like “channel 2: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed: administratively prohibited: open failed” 19:18:03 hirefly 19:18:28 FireFly, hah 19:18:33 err 19:18:35 fizzie, ^ 19:18:46 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:19:05 fizzie, also you can easily turn off port forwarding in /etc/ssh/sshd_config 19:19:11 So I guess that is what happened 19:19:51 fizzie, pretty pointless since you could write your own daemon on the other end to do port forwarding for you 19:20:37 -!- fungot has joined. 19:21:19 fungot: hi :D 19:21:20 boily: and we all will be well invested. get a backtrace, at least in the chicken hash table implementation 19:22:12 heh 19:55:28 -!- tswett_ has changed nick to tswett. 20:00:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has changed nick to Guest21998. 20:00:04 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest68635. 20:00:48 -!- boily has changed nick to Guest31415. 20:02:09 -!- Guest68635 has changed nick to elliott. 20:02:38 -!- Guest31415 has changed nick to boily. 20:03:48 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest24565. 20:04:07 -!- Guest24565 has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:04:17 -!- elliott_ has joined. 20:04:38 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 20:07:45 -!- conehead_ has joined. 20:08:59 -!- conehead_ has changed nick to conehead. 20:12:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:13:37 Vorpal: Flickr'd those things: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/sets/72157634561814470/ (As for the almost-globe, just decided to drop the sky images for now; they're not all that terribly interesting, in the end.) 20:17:00 fizzie: is that that very large scale model of the solar system? 20:17:18 boily: No, it's a set of random panoramic pictures. Unless I linked to the wrong set. 20:17:18 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 20:17:19 (There's a set of the solar system model, too.) 20:17:35 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:18:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:19:17 Something I've wondered, re that model; is the Neptune model -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/9033742967/ -- trying to show some kind of surface features, or is it just flaky paint? 20:19:33 I surreptitiously clicked on your usernamef to see what other pictures you had. 20:20:48 I haven't used the Flickr account much, since I have a local Gallery2 installation for sharing vacation pics with relatives with. 20:23:57 fizzie, that model, is that in Finland? 20:24:18 I know there is one in Sweden that covers most of Sweden, with the Globen Statium in Stockholm being the sun. 20:24:50 It's in Finland, and it's smaller than that. 20:25:09 1:10^9 in scale, so the Sun is about a metre and a half, or something like that. 20:25:36 And all the planets are in the Helsinki/Espoo area, it's a nice (20-or-so km) bike ride to go through them all. 20:25:38 where is the sun? can't find the image 20:26:01 -!- Guest8492 has quit. 20:26:10 fizzie, or is that the thing on the pole? 20:26:11 It's the silly sphere -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/9033733679/ 20:26:13 Yes. 20:26:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:26:25 The idea is that you should be able to see it from all of the planets. 20:26:29 fizzie, nice panoramas anyway 20:26:35 (It doesn't entirely work, due to trees and so on.) 20:26:38 heh 20:26:48 didn't you say they were in a 20 km area or so? 20:27:01 And you need binoculars for the planets further away, yes. 20:27:12 Well, a 20 km round trip. I don't know what the furthest distance is. 20:27:22 ah, so not in a line then 20:27:39 well I guess they can't be in line due to some of the orbital resonances 20:28:28 The alignment of the planets might not correspond to any particular date, it's possible they've just put it where they found good locations. 20:28:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:28:44 Pluto's (this predates the demotion) apparently about 6.1 km away from the Sun. 20:30:15 http://goo.gl/maps/eYwGR here's the GPS log for the trip those photos were taken at. 20:33:45 fizzie, it is annoying that some apps seem to not be aware of dual monitors and open in the middle, and some open properly on one or the other monitor 20:33:49 any idea what could cause that 20:34:51 Decades of history, I suppose. (Or in more detail, maybe non-Xinerama-aware code that manually queries screen extents and sets window position, instead of letting the window manager position it?) 20:36:08 I don't recall any examples offhand that'd open in the middle. (Though this is a tiling wm, so apps that don't get floated due to fixed-size windows or whatnot would be tiled anyway.) 20:36:28 fizzie, hugin's splash screen in this case 20:36:38 so not that annoying 20:36:40 just weird 20:36:43 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:36:54 -!- FreeFull has changed nick to Guest71082. 20:37:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:37:38 Curious; it opens in the center of the currently focused monitor, for me. (X is such a mess, though.) 20:38:17 heh 20:38:47 Have you bought the current humble bundle? Ebook one? 20:38:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:39:22 Vorpal: I did. 20:39:31 they just added some new stuff 20:39:38 hm 20:39:39 No, but I bought the previous one (Android #6). Though with very little money, since it wasn't all that interesting. 20:40:07 I got the current one just now, due to the new stuff they added 20:40:12 was planning to skip it otherwise 20:40:21 Then I kept feeling guilty about giving them so little amount of money, even though the alternative would've been to give them nothing. 20:42:45 Speaking of Hugin, I can't figure out what the user-local directory for Python plugins is. http://hugin.sourceforge.net/releases/2011.2.0/en.shtml says "Moreover, plugins can be written, modified, customized in the user's own directory" but I haven't found any page that'd say what that directory is. (Or bothered to source-dive yet.) 20:43:25 (I wrote a small script to set the initial rough positions to what they tend to be after taking shots with the panohead.) 20:45:47 what use are those scripts? 20:46:43 fizzie, tried the new 2013.0.0 beta yet? They "streamlined" the UI, making it god-awful for the stuff I typically do. (Custom optimization configurations) 20:47:02 I've only read about it on the wiki so far. 20:47:06 I went back to the 2012.0.0 version instead 20:47:08 it was that bad 20:47:23 Vorpal: I did. 20:47:29 boily, your opinion? 20:47:45 From what I read, the "Expert" interface sounded reasonably similar to the old Hugin, but no, haven't tried it yet. 20:48:11 Vorpal: also my up arrow. 20:48:13 Well, "Advanced" or "Expert", I'm not quite sure what their difference is. 20:48:15 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 20:48:30 boily, I'm not familiar with that terminology? 20:48:46 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:48:48 fizzie, the expert interface was the one I was describing. The simple one is utterly useless 20:49:18 Mhm'k. 20:53:44 -!- ineiros has joined. 20:53:55 -!- impomatic has quit (*.net *.split). 20:53:56 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 20:53:56 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 20:53:56 -!- ineiros_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:56:35 Vorpal: Another slightly photography-related topic: turns out the N900 is reasonably usable for taking time-lapse shots (my regular camera doesn't have that functionality, and isn't computer-controllable; the old 2-mpix Canon that was I gave away); with a suitable gstreamer pipeline it can take, encode and wifi-send full-frame (2576x1936) jpegs at a bit over 1 fps, or 1920x1440-crop-to-1080p ... 20:56:42 ... images (for videoing) at about 2.2 fps. (Could perhaps go faster over usb-net as opposed to poor-signal-strength wifi.) 20:58:49 Hm 20:59:10 fizzie, I guess I could use my own phone for that, what with the somewhat better camera than that 21:00:15 Hm are there any color eink displays out yet? 21:00:21 I know they are in the works as it were 21:00:30 colour* 21:00:53 If so, how good are they? 21:00:58 Vorpal: the up arrow on my keyboard, it searchs through previous replies. 21:00:58 I think there's been some commercial products already, but nothing mainstream. 21:01:07 but time to go eat. I'm autodigesting myself. 21:01:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:01:12 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:01:46 http://www.jetbook.net/ <- like that 21:01:59 Says it's "first ever", but you never know. 21:02:22 Mhm 21:02:58 "Sadly, my Jetbook Color 2 arrived yesterday and the new screen for the most part is not visibly different from the screen on the original Jetbook Color. 21:03:01 Sure, the blacks are darker, and the colors are a little brighter, but unfortunately E-ink’s second-gen color E-ink screen has the same gray base color as the previous screen. It is a gray that is so dark that the original Kindle actually has a whiter screen." 21:03:05 Reviews: not so good. 21:03:24 Ah 21:03:42 So time to wait a year or so before getting an e-reader 21:06:21 I guess it works by having a static RGBW kind-of-like-Bayer-pattern filter on top of the black-and-white screen, so the subpixels of a full-white pixel are still (the brightest possible) white, red, green and blue, so the overall effect is gray. 21:07:55 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:11:32 fizzie, for some reason I get the unlock dialog on the non-primary monitor hm 21:12:13 I get mine on the screen the cursor was on when I locked it. 21:14:57 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 21:17:32 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 21:17:33 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:17:34 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 21:17:34 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 21:17:34 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 21:17:34 hm 21:17:55 fizzie, I will have to investigate that that wasn't the case 21:31:30 fizzie, you are right, that was what happened 21:39:27 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 21:44:41 -!- heroux has joined. 22:03:25 -!- clog has joined. 22:37:14 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:43:53 -!- shachaf has quit (Changing host). 22:43:53 -!- shachaf has joined. 22:45:13 -!- carado has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:05:12 -!- ion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:09:49 -!- ion has joined. 23:25:07 -!- Guest71082 has quit (Changing host). 23:25:07 -!- Guest71082 has joined. 23:25:17 -!- Guest71082 has changed nick to FreeFull. 23:26:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 23:29:38 -!- dvorakbot has joined. 23:31:27 does anyone know what the new thinkpad keyboards are like 23:32:24 Probably still got Fn at bottom left 23:34:40 i have an X1 Carbon with the new-style keyboard and it's fine 23:34:45 feels at least as good as the old style 23:35:13 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 23:35:20 they were always tweaking the mechanism on the old style keyboards, anyway 23:35:35 so this isn't some unprecedented shift in terms of mechanism, just appearance 23:36:12 Lumpio-, thank god for that! 23:36:23 it's missing SysRq and a few other keys, but there are secret Fn combos for them 23:36:31 I think they include a BIOS option these days to put Ctrl there 23:36:35 kmc, I haven't heard of this new keyboard, what is the difference? 23:36:36 although I didn't get magic SysRq to work 23:36:41 Lumpio-: oh I heard about that 23:36:50 the true location of Ctrl is to the left of 'a' ;P 23:37:01 capslock ctrl is uncomfortable :( 23:37:06 elliott: no 23:37:08 elliott: why 23:37:15 Vorpal: http://www.lenovo.com/shop/WW/products/splitter/notebooks/ThinkPad/X-Series/gallery/ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-Laptop-PC-Overhead-Keyboard-View-4L-940x475.jpg 23:37:15 elliott, depends on your hands I bet 23:37:24 they dropped a row of keys and added space between the keys 23:37:33 and all the thinkpad diehards were like NOOOOO YOU MONSTERS 23:37:33 kmc: my little finger doesn't like holding down the key in that position 23:37:34 kmc, blasphemy! There is space between the keys 23:37:36 but really, it feels fine 23:37:37 I hate that 23:37:40 messes up the distances 23:37:46 don't agree 23:37:55 ok to clarify when I asked my question I already knew Vorpal would hate it 23:37:58 And I need to switch between normal PC keyboards, old laptop keyboards and thinkpads 23:38:10 I have a really issue if the spacing change 23:38:11 i do that too 23:38:12 it's fine 23:38:15 you can feel the edges between keys 23:38:20 Really run into issues with spaced keyboards 23:38:22 however I will accept that you and I are different human beings 23:38:41 * Fiora tries it, it feels awkward but maybe that's just habit? 23:38:41 kmc, that is not the issue, I can't handle *scale* changes to keyboards very well. 23:38:44 kmc: xah lee sez http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html but of course that is subject to xah lee being crazy 23:39:02 though his reasons make sense to me 23:39:10 I can get used to any, but since I switch so much I can't really get used to any that is far from the averagte 23:39:12 average* 23:39:23 what I might do is swap ctrl and alt 23:39:31 IIRC they used to be in opposite positions on very old IBM keyboards 23:39:44 either that or Alt was the standard keyboard shortcut modifier rather than Ctrl, so it was effectively swapped 23:39:52 kmc, they moved pgup/pgdown too? 23:39:53 and alt seems to be in a nicer position to hit regularly 23:39:53 Huh 23:40:06 Vorpal: yeah, and got rid of the page forward / page back browser keys 23:40:11 I guess macs effectively do that because cmd is where alt is on PC keyboards 23:40:42 kmc, hm, this is the thinkpad layout I'm used to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/24aswje7idgwoo3/20120729_111221.jpg 23:41:26 kmc, I used the forward/back keys for switching between terminal tabs in the terminal emulator 23:41:28 :/ 23:41:31 kmc: that pgup/pgdown positioning looks a bit awkward 23:41:42 but not like it really matters 23:42:03 my current keyboard has pgup and pgdn as FN-home and FN-end 23:42:05 which is a little od 23:42:06 *odd 23:42:09 I used a keyboard with pgup/pgdown replacing some of the duplicate modifier keys on the right for a while, that was pretty nice actually 23:42:27 elliott, I like that the esc key is no longer above F1, that used to trip me up going between my laptop and desktops 23:42:36 That is one actual improvement 23:43:06 i use Ctrl-[ for esc usually 23:43:09 Fiora, quite odd yes 23:43:12 -!- dvorakbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:43:16 kmc, does that work across the board? 23:43:21 anyway where is your [? 23:43:26 -!- mnoqy has joined. 23:43:31 for me that would be ctrl-altgr-8 23:43:32 it's the key labeled _- on qwerty 23:43:34 which is just silly 23:43:35 anyway I will look into thinkpads I guess 23:43:40 http://i.imgur.com/zna27l.jpg this one is mine 23:43:41 and it works in standard terminals 23:43:50 kmc, next to right shift? 23:43:59 no two left of backspace 23:44:01 Fiora: wow colourful 23:44:02 elliott, getting a new computer? 23:44:10 it works because the ESC character *is* Ctrl-[ in ASCII 23:44:13 Vorpal: in theory 23:44:13 kmc, okay, not where it is on Swedish qwerty then! 23:44:32 same way I've been "getting a new computer" for years but this time my current setup is annoying enough that I might actually do it 23:44:38 elliott: mine's purple though 23:44:39 Ctrl = - 0x40 23:44:43 it lets you customize the colors 23:44:48 elliott, ah, I got a new monitor recently 23:44:50 Fiora: how utterly shocking 23:44:53 elliott, so I have a dual monitor setup now 23:45:23 laptops with number pads make me sad though :( 23:45:26 http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk102/hihihehe_ace/20120621_175804.jpg like that 23:45:30 there's a purple one 23:45:34 means your hand is always going to be to the left 23:45:37 elliott, a 24" 16:10 IPS. Dell UltraSharp 2412M. It actually is not too expensive for being an IPS. Good price/performance 23:45:39 *hands are 23:45:58 yeah, I'm not sure it's necessary really... I do like that the keyboard is smaller (width-wise) though because of the pad though 23:47:02 elliott, I have a UltraSharp 2410 at work, that is more than twice as expensive, for a 8 bits + 2 bits of AFRC and wide gamut, instead of 6 bits + 2 bits of AFRC and sRGB. 23:47:02 also that |\ key 23:47:04 is in the weirdest place 23:47:14 wait there's two??? 23:47:19 why is there an extra one next to the space bar 23:47:56 yeah that is strange 23:48:15 elliott, so you are getting a laptop? 23:48:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:48:51 elliott, Are you planning on coding much on it? Or what will the main purpose be? 23:49:10 well as much as I code currently :P 23:49:14 I found that I work more efficiently with really big screen estate, such as dual 24" 23:49:24 Not sure if that is true for everyone, or if it is just me 23:49:41 Dual screens is even nicer, makes having two maximised windows really nice 23:49:45 I am ok with small screens 23:49:58 I don't do much fancy in terms of coding environment anyway 23:50:03 -!- johnny57 has joined. 23:50:24 I have started feeling cramped with just a single monitor. You get used to the dual screens really quickly. 23:50:28 though high-PPI would be nice, the software support in linux seems to make that a waste of time for now 23:50:33 I had tripple screens for a bit. That was *really* nice. 23:51:35 (2x 24" 16:10 + 16:9 powerhouse laptop in dock at work. Really nice.) 23:52:45 elliott, high ppi is nice, but I don't recall linux having problems with that hm? 23:53:04 I know windows can't handle mixed low and high ppi screens well 23:53:14 I assume linux could in theory? 23:53:35 well it's about application support 23:53:46 oh? 23:53:50 and the size of existing graphics etc. 23:54:08 doesn't mostly everything use pango to render text these days anyway? 23:54:18 like OS X's handling of the retina stuff is really good and just scaling up the X11 PPI setting isn't going to be remotely as effective for now 23:54:19 and there tends to be SVG icons 23:54:19 GUYS THE VOICES ARE ON TO US THEY KNOW WE CAN HEAR THEM 23:54:27 Koen_: ??? 23:55:40 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:55:50 Btw, is there any laptop with a non-straight keyboard? Ergonomic I mean 23:56:05 Maybe not as extreme as a MS natural or such, but somewhat 23:57:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:57:03 hey are there keyboards you can put on the palm of your hands? 23:57:55 Koen_, I guess you could strap on the datahand and it would still work? 23:58:05 There are keyer gloves... 23:58:14 oh, nice 23:58:58 Bike, how do they work? Do you end up looking really futuristic while using them 23:59:18 it's just a chorded keyboard, as far as i know 23:59:23 aee 23:59:25 aww* 23:59:58 i know a guy who uses his regular keyboard as chorded, maybe i can ask him 23:59:58 http://www.keyglove.net/ <-- this one looks like a prototype hm 2013-07-11: 00:00:16 Well there seem to be other ones 00:00:23 yeah i don't think any of them are on sale or nuthin 00:00:28 probably because noone cares 00:00:36 this is where i link the datahand 00:00:38 it's open-source so it must be good 00:00:50 Bike, http://www.amazon.com/The-PEREGRINE-Wearable-Interface-Medium/dp/B0035HABMM 00:00:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id3GQHXVjQY this is basically the opposite of futuristic 00:00:53 awesome 00:01:00 hey can you wire a keyglove to a pair of google glasses, and, you know, be *cool* 00:01:00 uh don't talk back to me vorpal 00:01:02 elliott, I already mentioned the datahand above 00:01:09 Bike, XD 00:01:21 the best thing about wearable computers is that people have been saying they look stupid since before the web 00:01:41 Optimized for WoW, DotA, League of Legends, StarCraft 2 00:01:45 i rest my case. 00:01:47 heh 00:01:48 yeah 00:01:55 Yes, and possibly sound stupid if you are using voice control 00:02:04 "Google glass, take a picture" 00:02:15 Saying that in public might not be such a smart idea 00:02:16 Stupid and/or hallucinating. 00:02:23 Apparently you can't use this thing as a keyboard. 00:02:32 ok but 00:02:36 well okay, google search lied to me 00:02:41 i think people are used to talking to nobody at this point 00:02:47 point. 00:02:50 given that handsfree stuff exists 00:03:01 ##electronics is being exist again whyyyyy 00:03:09 it's being exist 00:03:14 damn 00:03:14 being exist: truly the worst curse 00:03:15 sort of like everything else 00:03:18 that exists 00:03:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id3GQHXVjQY this is basically the opposite of futuristic <-- yes, and it looks very hot too 00:03:21 hey, people talking in the phone with a handfree set already look stupid 00:03:25 you know what i'm just not going to fix it 00:03:49 Vorpal: "hot", I think you mean "optimized for arctic use". think like a marketer 00:03:50 Koen_, even more so if bluetooth so there is no visible cable 00:04:01 yup 00:04:08 Bike, eh I have gloves like that. So not arctic. Just Nordic 00:04:17 and you know I keep thinking they're talking to me 00:04:20 i'm pretty sure nordland is in the arctic. 00:04:32 Norrland yes 00:04:42 But not the south of Sweden where I live 00:04:51 Not arctic climate here 00:05:00 oh hey I was at a bar earlier today 00:05:15 did you just realize that Koen_ 00:05:17 and I wanted a beer and the waiter told us what kind of beers he had 00:05:22 Bike, it would be arctic climate if it wasn't for the gulf ocean stream, which carries hot water up here 00:05:32 and he had affligem, and when he said it it sounded like "african" 00:05:47 and you know, African beer? I had never tried that before so I asked for one 00:06:01 i only drink asian beer 00:06:40 Bike: I know it's not quite what they were thinking of but "hand keyboard" makes me think of these things 00:06:43 http://ulva.com/images/maltron-right-hand785x581.jpg 00:06:48 mnoqy: I just wanted to share that african beer was a myth 00:07:21 what a crappy myth 00:07:35 Fiora: I have no idea what position my hand is expected to be in to type on that 00:07:56 elliott, hm.. "On a typical PC keyboard of today, the Caps Lock is pressed by the weakest finger pinky. The Ctrl key can be easily pressed with palm.", I just tried, on a laptop with ctrl outmost (nope), on my MS Natural (hell no) and on a standard straight PS/2 keyboard (not really without hitting other stuff, but least improbable of all the alternatives) 00:08:13 well your hands are gigantic or whatever 00:08:14 so 00:08:18 yes 00:08:19 they are 00:08:24 mine aren't :P 00:08:34 fairyhands elliot 00:08:43 yeah ##electronics is not "kmc social values approved" 00:08:46 who the heck presses ctrl with the palm 00:08:50 press the ctrl key with your palm? @_@ 00:08:51 perhaps i should have made that clear before 00:08:52 though again I find hitting alt with thumb most comfortable 00:08:55 ctrl is 100% a pinky key 00:09:01 I can do ctrl-i with one hand on a MS Natural, awkward and not possible without turning myself yes, but that is the span 00:09:04 alt is thumb yes 00:09:06 I have to move my entire hand over to do that 00:09:23 mnoqy, exactly 00:09:29 kmc: well it was obvious within two minutes of going in. still quite irritating 00:09:49 ##electronics sounds bad 00:09:52 how do you press anything with your palm. 00:10:02 Ko....en..... 00:10:08 oh god 00:10:09 whoah 00:10:09 my name 00:10:19 the guest of christmas past has come for you, koen 00:10:31 -!- Guest21998 has quit (Changing host). 00:10:31 -!- Guest21998 has joined. 00:10:32 what do I do 00:10:36 -!- Guest21998 has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 00:10:44 Koen_, you said that thing 00:10:45 Bike, I suspect you could reliably hit space with the lower part of your palm (though not on a laptop or ultraflat), but what would the point be 00:10:49 about voices 00:10:52 yes 00:11:03 Definitely possible on my MS Natural 00:11:25 I think there's some animal on the roof 00:11:33 or in the wall 00:11:42 and they're... talking? 00:11:42 Btw, it was good getting a split keyboard, turned out i was hitting g with the wrong hand before. 00:12:03 Phantom_Hoover, gnomes 00:12:18 Or some such 00:12:37 i dont worry about "correct hand".. i often hit things with the wrong hand if it's easier to hit them that way the way my hands are situated 00:12:48 or i just always hit them with the wrong hand id 00:12:56 k 00:13:04 elliott, with palm for ctrl I can't hit anything closer than the F keys with my fingers without them hurting 00:13:16 anyway my point is not that ctrl is in a good position really 00:13:21 i dont think it hurts my productivity or moral fibre 00:13:21 just that caps lock isn't in a good position either 00:13:21 good 00:13:29 well okay, that might be true 00:13:50 elliott, where would you have it? I think I would actually suggest pedals for the modifiers 00:13:57 mnoqy: or i just always hit them with the wrong hand idk <<< wouldn't that make it the right hand then? 00:14:03 well like I said the position of alt seems best for the main command modifier key 00:14:08 Koen_: left, actually 00:14:15 so maybe I will swap alt and ctrl next time I am on non-OS X 00:14:17 right as in notwrong 00:14:33 elliott, say left foot down = ctrl, left foot forward = alt, right foot down = shift, right foot forward = altgr 00:14:48 Koen_, why were you talking about voices 00:14:48 well I don't think foot pedals on a laptop is such a winning idea 00:14:52 for god's sake 00:14:57 elliott, well yes, that would be an issue 00:15:07 Phantom_Hoover: can you hear them too? 00:15:20 00:15:25 i... 00:15:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 00:15:29 is this some sort of stupid joke or 00:15:45 rest peacefully, ph 00:24:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:24:18 hi 00:32:28 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/10/mod-trident-scotland-independence hahaha 00:33:06 just let them have some nukes 00:33:08 what's the big deal 00:33:22 well they don't want them 00:33:33 and if the UK doesn't have a nuclear submarine patrolling at all times France will invade 00:33:40 of course 00:34:55 imo we should keep them 00:35:02 otherwise it'll be braveheart all over again 01:15:37 haha rich! 01:15:52 thanks for the article 01:16:28 `relcome johnny57 01:16:32 ​johnny57: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:18:19 for some reason when i saw that text i thought of fruit polos 01:21:52 `pblist 01:21:54 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pblist: not found 01:21:54 `plist 01:21:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: plist: not found 01:21:58 `blist 01:21:59 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: blist: not found 01:22:00 `flist 01:22:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: flist: not found 01:22:02 `pbflist 01:22:03 pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia 01:22:16 Phantom_Hoover: that was sad 01:22:38 why are you and i not on that 01:23:21 do we have `alwllist 01:23:33 `alillist actually 01:23:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: alillist: not found 01:23:36 waaaaah. 01:24:05 i don't see any strips after honk, phantom. 01:24:20 `allelelist 01:24:22 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: allelelist: not found 01:24:41 well nobody told me when honk came out 01:26:21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hitchhiker's_thumbs.jpg omg there's a name for this?) 01:27:26 funky 01:28:07 Huh, tongue rolling *isn't* inheritable? 01:28:50 Isn't it just not Mendelian? 01:29:51 "There is little laboratory evidence supporting the hypothesis that tongue rolling is inheritable and dominant. A 1975 twin study found that identical twins were no more likely than fraternal twins to both have the same phenotype for tongue rolling." 01:30:03 huh 01:30:43 but earwax still is apparently? 01:31:01 * Fiora has the dominant gene yay 01:31:13 what are the consequences of the dominant gene 01:31:20 (The musculature of the tongue is crazy btw() 01:31:30 the wet type is dominant and dry is recessive, it says? 01:31:35 ah 01:31:41 i don't know which type of earwax i have 01:31:45 and maybe I would be happy not knowing 01:31:45 it also says that dry is mostly found in asians and native americans 01:31:46 so... 01:32:27 I guess I got that from my dad, though it just says "more likely", so 01:32:48 I guess tongue rolling is a lot easier to show around in a bio class xD 01:33:01 -!- Suchorski has quit. 01:33:14 oh! and there's the tasting "PTC" thing 01:34:40 yeah, you can't exactly do much with ability to smell cyanide, or albinism 01:34:58 what's tongue rolling? 01:35:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rolled_tongue_flikr.jpg 01:36:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Slide8uuu.JPG 01:36:27 eew 01:37:00 I can roll my tongue the other way 01:37:01 thats pretty gross ph 02:01:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:04:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:19:51 "any compiled language can have BOFs" 02:19:56 [buffer overflows] 02:37:45 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 02:43:46 -!- Guest90495 has quit (*.net *.split). 02:43:47 -!- Koen_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:43:47 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 02:43:48 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 02:43:48 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 02:45:06 people are wrong on the internet 02:45:29 shit. 02:45:56 no sleeping tonight kmc 02:46:58 kmc, I knew him IRL 02:47:00 fortunately i have many techniques for not caring that people are wrong on the Internet 02:47:07 Sgeo: oh, well, people are sometimes wrong IRL too 02:47:10 He's a pen tester 02:47:12 i am frequently wrong anywhere 02:47:20 Sgeo: ballpoint or fountain? 02:47:29 etration 02:47:34 The best kind of pen 02:49:01 pen 15 club 02:49:20 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:49:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 02:49:21 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:49:37 apparently hume did a pretty good criticism of gofai. i'm thrill'd 02:49:51 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 02:50:07 i saw a seagull basically hovering about 4 feet above the ground 02:50:10 on an updraft 02:50:16 they are so skilled 02:50:30 birds own, imo 02:50:42 yes 02:51:40 seagulls will swoop down and take your food but they aim at a point away from you and change course at the last moment 02:51:45 in order to avoid tipping off others 02:53:21 there are a lot of mourning doves in my new neighborhood, which makes me happy 02:56:28 * kmc → dim sum 02:57:16 is that german for sleeping 03:04:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:15:16 -!- Koen_ has joined. 03:15:41 Sgeo: I don't even know the difference between a compiled language and an interpreted one 03:16:31 compiled languages are faster, duh 03:21:38 -!- sacje has joined. 03:25:16 "compiled into machine code that is directly executed by the OS/Processor" 03:25:17 hth 03:25:34 no don't try a serious explanation 03:25:39 I wasn't trying it 03:25:44 That was his explanation 03:25:52 oh 03:25:57 ok well it's dumb still 03:26:03 so dumb, imo 03:26:25 "trivial languages that you make up to prove your points are irelivant 03:26:26 " 03:27:14 hey stop arguing with the wrong person 03:27:37 I did 03:27:42 About half an hour ago 03:27:48 Because he had other things to do 03:52:58 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:59:17 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:05:21 * Sgeo sticks out his tongue at those who say 8GB should be enough 04:05:28 Almost reached that point earlier today 04:05:37 Two users logged in, a lot of work stuff and some home stuff 04:06:03 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 04:09:08 -!- kallisti has joined. 04:19:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:21:20 -!- Bike has joined. 04:23:21 -!- Koen_ has joined. 04:23:47 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:24:20 -!- Koen_ has joined. 04:39:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:46:15 -!- Bike has joined. 04:53:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:57:37 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 05:00:58 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:03:08 Did Phantom_Hoover seriously `pbflist? 05:03:57 What's with him? 05:04:05 good questions 05:08:29 hi mnoqy 05:08:32 hi 05:09:05 did you leave all the channels you used to be in!! 05:09:31 yes 05:09:36 especially #esoteric 05:09:46 #esoteric isn't a real channel 05:09:55 oonbotti........this was your cue........!!! 05:10:29 oonbotti isn't alive it can't understand you 05:10:31 also it's not here 05:10:45 bicycles aren't alive either 05:11:46 uh dude i'm right here 05:11:47 rude. 05:13:36 why is it rude 05:14:20 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 05:14:37 did someone mention me? 05:15:05 #esoteric did 05:15:08 #esoteric 05:15:16 #uselessbot 05:15:20 #drugz 05:15:58 it is a rewrite, doesn't have #esoteric but I can add it if you want 05:17:50 -!- oonbotti2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:18:07 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 05:18:13 #esoteric 05:18:13 Nothing here 05:33:38 was that command ever intended to have a useful purpose? 05:33:46 nortti: ^ 05:34:01 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 05:37:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:40:56 huh Gregor is not here, or is he hiding under another nick again 05:41:35 i can see no sufficiently ridiculous ones :P 05:42:54 * oerjan checks a couple obscure ones just in case 05:43:20 -!- oerjan has set topic: Now playing Where's Gregor | <3 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 05:44:10 2013-07-11 00:17:35 (EEST) -!- Gregor!~Gregor@libdl.so has quit [*.net *.split] 05:51:28 Who got the infamous libc.so? 05:53:06 NOBODY KNOWS 05:53:09 or do they 05:56:26 I don't. 05:57:06 hi 05:58:13 hi kmc 05:58:18 how goes it 05:58:57 http://whois.domaintools.com/libc.so 05:59:05 Tech Contact ID: mxm1148892775 05:59:13 kmc: turns out i'll be meeting the people near the powell st bart at 19:00 05:59:16 ok 05:59:22 that's a fine bart 06:00:19 Sgeo_: "Contact ID: mxm1148892775 -- Internationalized Name: Marcel Meyer -- Internationalized Organization: levelsystems -- Internationalized Street: Siedlungsstrasse 6c -- Internationalized City: Erding -- Internationalized Country: DE -- Email: marcel.meyer@levelsystems.de " 06:00:41 germany is quite the internationalized country 06:00:45 no:bart = en:moustache, hth 06:00:46 shachaf: what sort of people are they 06:00:49 shachaf: oh, incidentally, the sencha reminded me a bit of local anaesthetic 06:00:55 levelsystems: Wir arbeiten lieber für unsere Kunden als eine hübsche Webseite zu machen... 06:00:59 that was what I was thinking of earlier 06:01:25 Gracenotes: that was the green rubbery tea? 06:01:46 `slist 06:01:48 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:01:51 yes. 06:02:00 I should figure out at some point if all sencha is like that. 06:02:01 Forgot about it 06:02:07 kmc: some of them irc people whom i've briefly met before 06:02:10 I probably should have stuck with jasmine, but I was curious 06:02:15 Ugh I am tired and hungry and I think sleep deprivation has been making me sick 06:02:30 Gracenotes: tea adventure is good hth 06:02:39 shachaf: anyone i know? 06:02:40 yes adventure ftw 06:02:49 kmc: I don't think so. 06:03:14 cool 06:03:16 have fun 06:03:43 will do my best hth 06:04:07 Gracenotes and i had fancy tea today btw, it was p. good hth 06:04:14 nice 06:04:18 should i become a tea snob 06:04:26 sounds good 06:04:34 ask mnoqy 06:04:37 hi 06:04:43 hi mnoqy 06:04:44 hi 06:04:45 should i become a tea snob 06:04:50 sure if you want 06:05:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 06:05:36 misinformation on stackoverflow :'( 06:05:41 why do i bother 06:05:53 good question 06:06:01 add a new answer, someone will surely upvote it 06:06:04 bahahah 06:06:38 imo people much prefer answers like "ghc auto-memoized it" and "tail-call elimination" to answers like "GMP is just faster than Java's BigInteger" 06:06:47 haha 06:07:02 yes, SO has many features that pinpoint it a lot more as a place-of-social-exchange rather than an authoritative-answer-on-unique-question. 06:07:25 i'm... not sure how memoization would help with bignum arithmetic 06:07:42 well, it wouldn't help in this case, unless the function was called more than once 06:07:48 it's not really a fair marketplace of answers. it's an extremely unfair one that can still be effective, if you're lucky. 06:07:53 i'm trying to imagine how it possibly could 06:08:15 i guess you'd need a situation where the thing being memoized couldn't just be done by the ALU in negligible time anyway 06:08:18 Bike: well, if you're computing bignum fibonacci numbers or something naïvely it would probably be p. helpful 06:08:27 ok but that's really stupid. 06:08:48 yes 06:09:01 like really dumb. might as well implement multiplication for fixnums yourself. in base 10. 06:09:06 in this case it's factorial which is even stupider since memoization doesn't even help (unless you use it more than once) 06:09:08 base 1337 06:09:12 also, Haskell's Integer type isn't even GMP a lot of the time 06:09:32 that's true, but maybe doesn't make a huge difference? 06:09:32 computing factorials fast is a very interesting problem 06:09:33 also my favorite part was when someone said the haskell code was faster than the java code because ghc does strictness analysis 06:09:36 agh 06:09:43 I would expect that GMP is also pretty fast on machine-size integers 06:09:45 shachaf: wow.......... 06:09:48 haha 06:10:00 the question at hand: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17584630/why-is-factorial-calculation-must-faster-in-haskell-than-in-java 06:10:00 java has a very basic strictness analyser 06:10:03 what does that... but... aaaaaah 06:10:06 takes up only 0 lines of code 06:11:28 man java bignums are always so wonderfully verbose 06:11:45 what the hchrist is this cache thing, help 06:12:05 In Haskell, all functions are pure unless they're doing IO (see link) 06:12:17 strictly speaking Java uses an array of int to implement BigInteger, but it also stores more information (5 additional words, plus 'vtable'). 06:12:22 kind of true 06:12:23 christ. christ help 06:12:33 This is able to do tail-call optimization because it's just iteration. The same can be done in Java with a for loop as in your example, but it won't have the benefit of being functionally pure. 06:12:47 true by way of being tautological 06:13:04 though only because the condition is never satisfied 06:13:06 ok so anyway. computing factorials is interesting. 06:13:11 Haskell, on the other hand, for quite big integers, stores the number of bytes used, fact that it's long, and the number itself. 06:13:11 well I guess you could also say it has nothing to do with functions 06:13:11 elliott: well if your flavour of Haskell has unsafePerformIO then it's true by being tautological, but not vacuous 06:13:18 hardly as much. 06:13:21 i'm not sure how practical it is to factorize and stuff 06:13:35 since if you're doing 1000000! you probably don't need precision anyway? 06:13:35 kmc: okay but, I don't think considering unsafePerformIO when talking about the semantics is worthwhile. 06:14:03 > product [1..1000000.0] 06:14:05 *Exception: stack overflow 06:14:10 exactly, lambdabot 06:14:21 that's the real problem here 06:14:23 who wants to read a pop sci article about homotopy type theory http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23749-mathematicians-think-like-machines-for-perfect-proofs.html 06:14:28 > foldl1' (*) [1..1000000.0] 06:14:29 Infinity 06:14:29 elliott 06:14:29 please no 06:14:29 Yep. That's the correct answer. 06:14:32 i get enough shit in pop sci about brains 06:14:33 Bike: right from the title 06:14:38 you know it's going to be amazing 06:14:38 i... i can't take the math. 06:14:40 i can't deal. 06:14:44 it's too much 06:14:53 im not up for anything that amazing imo 06:15:10 As well as know, types didn't exist before machines. 06:15:10 *we 06:15:11 > pi 06:15:12 3.141592653589793 06:15:30 > e 06:15:31 e 06:15:34 e 06:15:36 sss. 06:15:37 Bike: it has your aczel 06:15:37 > exp 1 06:15:38 > pi :: Cereal 06:15:39 can't find file: L.hs 06:15:39 2.718281828459045 06:15:42 > pi :: Cereal 06:15:43 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841972 06:15:45 what's cereal 06:15:53 cereal 06:16:02 cant believe you dont know what cereal is 06:16:06 sourcereal.com 06:16:08 > 2 ^ 7 -- i also forgot 06:16:08 128 06:16:11 ok good 06:16:33 please tell me youve seen sourcereal.com bike 06:16:36 its important 06:16:37 > showCereal 100 pi 06:16:39 i think i have actually 06:16:40 "3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406... 06:16:45 > let stirling n = ((n/exp 1)^n)*(sqrt (2 * pi * n)) in stirling 1000000 06:16:46 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 06:16:46 arising from a use of `M582996387.sho... 06:16:52 sourcereal.com is v. important 06:16:55 help 06:17:07 :t \n -> ((n/exp 1)^n)*(sqrt (2 * pi * n)) 06:17:08 (Floating b, Integral b) => b -> b 06:17:14 ugh. 06:17:18 :t \n -> ((n/exp 1)**n)*(sqrt (2 * pi * n)) 06:17:19 Floating a => a -> a 06:17:25 yeah everything's terrible imo 06:17:27 and, for the grand finale 06:17:32 > (\n -> ((n/exp 1)**n)*(sqrt (2 * pi * n))) 1000000 06:17:34 Infinity 06:17:38 yay! 06:17:43 * Bike cries 06:18:28 > ln 10 06:18:29 Not in scope: `ln' 06:18:29 Perhaps you meant one of these: 06:18:29 `n' (imported from D... 06:18:31 > log 10 06:18:33 2.302585092994046 06:18:56 > iterate log 10 06:18:57 [10.0,2.302585092994046,0.834032445247956,-0.18148297420509205,NaN,NaN,NaN,... 06:19:07 `addquote what's cereal cereal cant believe you dont know what cereal is 06:19:07 is there a log with base? 06:19:11 1071) what's cereal cereal cant believe you dont know what cereal is 06:19:12 logBase 06:19:15 thx 06:19:20 Anyway, the HoTT article has some nice quotes from Bauer 06:19:31 > logBase 100 10 06:19:32 0.5 06:19:44 > logBase 10 100 06:19:45 2.0 06:20:03 > let shitfuckfuckfuck n = n * log n - n in shitfuckfuckfuck 1000000 06:20:07 1.2815510557964273e7 06:20:12 man 06:20:16 i am the worst 06:20:19 at everything 06:20:23 forever. 06:20:46 > map (length . takeWhile (join (==)) . iterate log) $ iterate (*2) 1 06:20:47 [3,3,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,... 06:21:01 mnoqy: you forgot to give a definition 06:21:18 Cereal can be defined as something that is made from cereal. 06:21:23 SourCReal 06:21:24 are we sure that's not cocereal 06:21:58 oh, e7. i didn't fuck up too bad. 06:22:35 > 1.2815510557964273e7 / log 10 06:22:36 5565705.518096747 06:22:41 > let x = map (length . takeWhile (join (==)) . iterate log) $ iterate (*2) 1 in findIndices not $ zipWith (==) x (tail x) 06:22:44 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 06:22:54 so can haskell bignums handle five million digit numbers 06:23:05 > let x = take 1000 . map (length . takeWhile (join (==)) . iterate log) $ iterate (*2) 1 in findIndices not $ zipWith (==) x (tail x) 06:23:06 [1,3,21] 06:23:17 Bike: it's just gmp 06:23:20 (usually) 06:23:26 yes well i don't know what gmp can handle 06:23:31 i am the worst, as previously mentioned 06:23:31 Bike: that's a lot of digits 06:23:45 Bike: can we settle on two million digits 06:23:49 gmp can handle as many digits as can into... what's the order of magnitude... TB? 06:23:55 *fit 06:23:57 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:24:13 µB 06:24:15 Well, modulo other constraints besides just pure size. 06:24:22 why did i get the base 10 digits first hm 06:24:36 i.e. addressability 06:25:40 re aczel, it's kind of a shame i'm too principled to pretend anything brain related depends on mathematical foundations, or else i'd totally write an awesme counterpart to shittyaczelpaper based on hott 06:26:37 brains? they're pretty great, but what about them 06:26:58 ok so the abc conjecture proof includes a paper with the title "Inter-universal Teichmuller Theory I: Construction of Hodge Theaters" 06:27:02 why did nobody tell me this before. 06:27:09 elliott: dude those papers are great 06:27:15 they make no sense 06:27:31 Gracenotes: you're missing this whole "backstory" that i already explained to elliott 06:27:54 you should have been hanging out with me in Palo Alto 06:28:05 that's like ten waleses away though. 06:28:10 rather than explaining things to elliott 06:28:14 Bike: what aczel paper are we talking here 06:28:15 thats a good paper title 06:28:22 higgledy piggledy / GMP Integer: / only constrained by the / size of your RAM. // sure, i'm neglecting the / addressability; / 32-bit are some / kind of a scam 06:28:30 er 06:28:32 messed up the end 06:28:33 oh well 06:28:35 Maximum number of limbs in a GMP number is whatever fits in an int on your platform; the limbs themselves are typically 32 or 64 bits. 06:28:57 these double dactyl things are hard ok 06:29:02 32-bit ones are / some kind of scam 06:29:06 elliott: the bikeologist one 06:29:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:29:31 So that's somewhere around 68719476736 or 137438953472 bits. 06:29:34 hi Taneb 06:29:36 Hi 06:29:37 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gone). 06:29:55 Bike: what 06:29:57 write me a double dactyl and/or limerick plz thx hth 06:30:05 ugh like 06:30:07 fine 06:30:21 I will also accept poems in onegin stanza 06:30:27 @google 137438953472 bits 06:30:29 Bike: help! 06:30:31 http://www.matisse.net/bitcalc/?input_amount=137438953472&input_units=bytes¬ation=legacy 06:30:31 Title: Bit Calculator - Convert between bits/bytes/kilobits/kilobytes/megabits/megab... 06:30:36 any takers 06:30:41 @google 137438953472 bits in terabytes 06:30:42 0.015625 terabytes 06:30:43 http://letconversion.com/data-storage-conversion/from-terabits/to-bytes 06:30:43 Title: Terabits to Bytes Conversion Calculator - LetConversion 06:30:49 I will even take both tetrameter and pentameter 06:30:50 wow that's not a lot of TB 06:30:55 Gracenotes: sure, go for it 06:31:02 12:18 a biologist mentioned it (it was a dumb mention) 12:18 of course it was, a biologist made it 06:31:10 that's "the backstory" 06:31:15 Bike: Wow, that's pretty rude. 06:31:31 hello 06:31:37 hmm i was going to make a mean joke but i won't make it 06:31:42 sry 06:31:48 no meanness to Bike 06:31:55 biologist? hm.. dunno 06:32:08 I give up on things 06:32:12 There was a man on Wight/whose limericks were kinda shite/When asked for a ditty/his response was so shitty/His entire audience got a fright 06:32:12 well 06:32:16 you know who aczel is right 06:32:20 imo onegin stanzas aren't so great usually? in english anyway? but maybe they are 06:32:41 he did all that set theory stuff 06:32:50 Gracenotes: you could also just write me a plain old iambic pentameter shakespeare-style sonnet imo 06:32:59 and a biologist was like "wow this is totally relevant to my field" 06:33:03 even though it wasn't & that's dumb 06:33:09 and wrote a paper about it. 06:33:10 shachaf: you still haven't given me something funny and specific you don't like 06:33:18 How was that limerick 06:33:18 as well 06:33:37 Gracenotes: oh the limerick i was talking about before: 06:33:51 Taneb: good, maybe change last line to "His toupe perked up in fright" 06:34:02 "Double dactyl verse form is, perhaps unsurprisingly, rare in popular music." 06:34:04 ...makes about as much sense? or less, which is better. 06:34:17 A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 06:34:32 nice fucking the unicode up!! 06:34:45 ? 06:34:52 because ꙮ is alphanumeric? 06:35:41 Is it bad that I read that little square as "multi-ocular o" 06:35:54 what square 06:35:55 wait 06:35:55 When it didn't render at all 06:35:57 the worst backstoyr 06:35:59 oh 06:36:00 what's going on ehre 06:36:03 my terminal is broken I guess! 06:36:12 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/s is rendering it "just fine" 06:36:17 And I am on a mobile device 06:36:34 Which may or may not support unicode 06:36:47 okay, I think I've reached a local maxima with mine 06:36:53 I've decided you don't like #haskell 06:36:58 no one does 06:37:03 There was a young critic named shachaf / Who put #haskell flags on a mast-half / When asked why he said / "I don't think it's yet dead, / but I hope it'll get there quite fast-fast" 06:37:08 yes, last-rhyme is a cop-out 06:37:20 they're all cop-outs :'( 06:37:27 who doens't like #h a s k el ldl 06:37:35 imo import more hebrew to rhyme with "shachaf" 06:38:08 yeah I know, I don't want/do code-switching 06:40:34 having a hard time coming up with an anti-biologist limerick here 06:42:10 how about make fun of vitalism 06:42:45 There were some poetic motes/Penned by a chap named Gracenotes/The meter was sluggish/The rhymes were rubbish/And it wasn't even the worst thing he/she wrote 06:43:06 Sorry 06:43:13 almost self-referential, that one! 06:43:19 :p 06:43:56 I can't think of anything that rhymes with Taneb 06:44:25 Bike: can you finish this anti-biologist limerick for me 06:44:28 ps it's also an anti-bike limerick 06:44:32 just needs a last line 06:44:32 :o 06:44:36 naan ebb? 06:47:44 bread shortage 06:47:54 there once was a man in nantucket / he watched birds and the bees and a duck pit / til one day at noon / they drained the lagoon / and right then and there he said "fuck it" 06:47:57 best i can do elliott 06:48:01 There once was a boy called elliott/Who thought biologists smell-iot/He wrote a short rhyme/In limerick time/And said "with the last line to hell-iot" 06:48:09 Bike. 06:48:11 yiou were meant to finish MINE 06:48:13 WOW 06:48:15 so impolite 06:48:19 wait where's yours 06:48:28 ok here you go "there once was a biologist named Bike / who found his head stuck on a pike. / the previous day / channel regulars say /" 06:48:37 Taneb: good very good 06:48:55 does that first line even fit the meter... 06:48:59 nice start 06:49:24 Taneb: can you please fix your meter thx 06:49:30 Nah 06:50:07 look 06:50:07 Some physicists sought to compete / With biologists who lived down the street / The biologists leisured / Since they couldn't be measured / Because all of their work was discrete. 06:50:09 fuck the meter 06:50:11 I'm a poet 06:50:28 dude did you rhyme "leisured" with "measured" 06:50:30 what kind of accent is taht 06:50:53 oh right people say it like "ledgered" 06:50:54 weird 06:51:11 Bike: did you rhyme "nantucket" with "duck pit" 06:51:36 There once was a beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck 06:51:39 pretty good, eh. not exactly a searing punchline, but... it's basically true... 06:51:39 mnoqy: ^ 06:51:51 fuck doesn't rhyme with fuck :| 06:51:55 shachaf: hey that works! almost 06:51:55 id you rhyme summer with fuck 06:52:00 the real flaw with mine is that it's terrible 06:52:00 yes 06:52:03 -!- oerjan has set topic: Vogon poetry's got nothing on us | <3 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 06:52:06 just in general 06:52:21 fatal flaw 06:52:44 oerjan: hey my original one was good 06:52:55 i mean thee ꙮ one 06:53:01 that was the best limerick of all 06:53:04 ILLL GRANT THAT ONE 06:53:05 I'm not sure how to make one criticizing physicists without going for the obvious stuff (like cow spheres) 06:53:08 maybe i should write a lickermich 06:53:11 **likercimv 06:53:12 A man once insulted my metrical technique/Despite my skills being at humanity's peak/So during the night/Purely out of spite/I killed him as he slept under a sheet 06:53:14 **lickerbic 06:53:17 (lim,erick 06:53:17 someone make a very esoteric limerick 06:53:18 lickermich 06:53:25 stop before you hurt yourself :o 06:53:33 Help 06:53:37 Taneb: good 06:53:45 Taneb: :'( 06:53:45 Taneb: reasonable 06:53:49 Gracenotes: i'd be impressed to see a limerick criticizing renormalization 06:53:51 it actually hurt to read that 06:54:20 There once was an expert on brainfuck / how the fuck do you rhyme with brainfuck 06:54:37 chained muck 06:54:39 'summer' rhymes with 'brianfuck' I think 06:54:50 fain luck 06:55:28 Cain suck(s) 06:55:33 yo what's a bad thing you can do to someone that ends with -ition 06:55:43 perdition? 06:55:49 not exactly... 06:55:55 being petitioned sucks 06:55:55 oh, actually, that's a good one 06:56:05 sedition? 06:56:06 (in Christian theology) A state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unpenitent person passes after death. 06:56:08 there once was a mathematician / fit only for eternal perdition / on type theory he said / "I'd rather be dead / than formulate proofs with precision" 06:56:17 uh 06:56:19 that doesn't rhyme 06:56:24 stop it with the bad rhymes 06:56:26 shut up 06:56:30 just stop it 06:56:32 i bet mnoqy likes my limerick 06:56:35 better to not rhyme at all 06:56:36 its alright.. 06:56:41 wow 06:56:43 tell me how you really feel 06:56:45 i think mathematician/perdition is ok 06:56:52 There once was an expert on brainfuck/On whose shoulder sat a plain duck/He looked at it and said/"Hop on to my head/"And this will be the best day of summer" 06:56:54 Bike: precision????? 06:57:02 Eh 06:57:10 shachaf: i'm sorry, that _does_ rhyme. it just doesn't scan. 06:57:12 Fuck the last line 06:57:25 oerjan: no, it doesn't do nothin' 06:57:27 -ion is enough for it 06:57:35 it seems like it scans to me... 06:57:44 me too 06:57:45 i guess 'eternal' is too long 06:57:58 instead of "eternal perdition" i originally had "harsh extradition 06:57:59 " 06:57:59 how about 'utter' 06:58:00 so y'know 06:58:02 it got better 06:58:03 (thinks) how do i make the rhyme (stops thinking) 06:58:24 A dangerous mission 06:58:26 yeah, i think 'utter' works. 06:58:30 you're welcome, elliott. 06:58:31 ok how about some drugz rhymes 06:58:33 A kitty did mew in the night / For her hunger did hit with such fright / She did look to her mother / As there was no other / With nipples 06:58:36 Nuclear fission 06:58:43 you had to expect an anti-limerick at some point, yes 06:58:54 either that, or laziness. 06:58:55 haven't half of these been anti limericks 06:59:01 they all have 06:59:02 sssshhhhh. 06:59:03 it's not funny 06:59:06 it's just bad 06:59:07 oh shachaf~ 06:59:13 you're all just being bad 06:59:16 ~ 06:59:17 just stop it ok 06:59:18 ~ 06:59:30 would you stop 06:59:31 I wanted to choose the most saccharine topic and the most predictable of subversions 06:59:39 Just for you, shachaf~~ 06:59:50 too many tildes help 07:00:04 ≈ 07:00:11 there once was a hoover ethereal / who despised derivative material / on the wiki he saw / some brainfucking lore / and gave brick-brain punishment imperial 07:00:12 hi Bike≋ 07:00:13 more unicode hearts too 07:00:17 ^^^ new limerick ^^^ 07:00:33 -!- shachaf has left. 07:00:36 RIP 07:00:40 rip. 07:00:46 do you like my limerick 07:00:47 there once was a dude called shachaf / now hes gone / rip 07:01:08 elliott: you seem to like packing syllables into that second line 07:01:13 New rule: no limericks allowed for the next 2 months 07:01:15 what did it ever do for you to deserve such bounty 07:01:22 all in favor yell angrily at your screens 07:01:55 too tired for yelling 07:01:56 i abstain 07:02:32 there once was a lover of cereal / who sought to define the material / on sourcereal.com / they dropped the truth bomb / "it is something made from cereal" 07:02:59 There once was an onslaught of tilde s/By Which a poetry veteran was killed/Our painful rhymes/And meter less than sublime/Only stood to give him a pretty good thrill 07:03:09 something that's made out of cereal 07:03:21 Bike: http://sourcereal.com 07:03:28 have to stay as true to the source material as possible 07:03:46 Definition of Sour Cereal 07:03:46 Cereal can be defined as something that is made from cereal. One can put it in a bowl, on a plate, or leave it in a box. Cereal is a nice thing to think about and sometimes eat. Sour cereal is an example of a type of cereal with spices. 07:04:08 Brb,.getting cereal 07:05:23 07:05:24 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:09:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 07:24:05 -!- kallisti has joined. 07:24:05 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 07:24:05 -!- kallisti has joined. 07:26:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:27:13 I am back 07:29:18 hello you literally missed nothing 07:32:09 Yay 07:32:17 I enjoyed my cereal 07:48:29 i think badly scanning poetry is from now on a bannable offense hth 07:48:53 i'm sorry, elliott, that means you cannot write poetry any more 07:50:50 oerjan: no, it just means I'll be banned from it. but happily I have the power to remove bans! 07:50:58 or maybe not without +R. fuck &, also, shit 07:51:03 *for it 07:51:29 repeated offenses _may_ affect your ability to unban hth 07:51:59 it's just protecting sentient life in the universe, i hope you understand this is necessary 07:52:40 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:54:49 i missed a lot though 07:58:37 hi kmc 07:58:39 i'm tired 07:58:48 hi elliott 07:58:51 shachaf left :/ 07:59:13 i was about to nominate him as poet laureate 08:03:11 ¾ 08:03:22 maybe i should sleep 08:03:39 ® 08:03:55 Þ 08:04:04 µ 08:04:20 ¶ 08:04:34 ™ 08:04:50 ± 08:04:57 Yay 08:04:58 It's special-characters hour here at the #esoteric. 08:06:04 ıf you w®ıþ€ wıþh əlþ-ŋ® ðowñ oñ þhıš ĸ€yßoə®ð ləyouþ, þh€ €ñ𠮀šulþ šþıll ĸıñð of looĸš lıĸ€ ®€ŋulə® þ€×þ. 08:06:10 ★ 08:06:29 imo thats kind of like badly scanning poetry 08:07:02 The use of altgr-b for the not-beta-but-German-ss ß is kind of rude. "Looks like B" indeed. 08:12:00 it's Compose S S 08:13:15 ſ is Compose F S which seems... all right? 08:13:27 €€€€€ 08:13:50 ¥¤£¤ 08:13:57 ("if you write with alt-gr down on this keyboard, the result is rather disappointing.) 08:14:05 *+" 08:25:23 -!- kiview has joined. 08:25:49 -!- kiview has left. 08:27:30 -!- carado has joined. 08:30:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:53:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:00:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:01:28 oh, this simon tatham puzzle was made by ben olmstead 09:01:48 heh 09:02:00 "Inertia" 09:03:29 is simon tatham a brand 09:04:08 almost 09:04:37 he made putty and this puzzle collection, both of which i use 09:23:23 oerjan: you won't be using one of those for long, hth 09:23:56 That sounds like a threat hth 09:24:22 yes. I'm going to threaten him with a linux installation CD 09:24:25 irl 09:45:23 LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-WARNING **: Trying to remove a child that doesn't believe we're it's parent. 09:50:29 that happened to mnoqy too 10:01:10 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:05:00 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:13:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:27:41 Bike: ghc -e 'print (product [1..905381] :: Integer)' | wc -L ==> 5000004 10:49:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: LAter). 10:50:57 coppro: hi I have clang questions 10:51:20 coppro: 1. is clang's output without any -O at all as completely-terrible as gcc's is i.e. do I always want at least -O or -Os or whatever 10:51:29 coppro: 2. does clang give worse warnings without -O like gcc does 10:52:38 1. Yes to the part before the i.e., I think, but definitely no to the part after it 10:53:10 have you seen gcc's -O0 output 10:53:13 2. I'm pretty sure that the answer is no 10:53:47 I've probably seen some of it at some point 10:54:38 well I don't see how you could stand ever using it :P 10:54:52 it's like the output of a toy C compiler you would write in a weekend for fun 10:55:01 Do you compile stuff in order to look at the generated assembly? 10:55:12 I think clang only uses FastISel at -O0 10:55:18 no but I don't want to feel like I'm running a Python program :( 10:55:23 Do you ever want to read -O0 assembly 10:55:34 it does shave 15 seconds off the build time though 10:55:39 Which means it should be significantly (once your program is big enough) faster to compile stuff at -O0 10:55:42 which is nice because I'm really lazy 10:55:54 well, compared to -O2, a bit less compared to -Os 10:55:55 haven't tried -O 10:56:06 Isn't -O equal to -O2 in gcc and hence clang 10:56:23 what really 10:56:25 that must be new if so 10:56:30 pretty sure -O1 is a thing 10:56:34 elliott: python cannot run, it slithers 10:56:39 Yes -O1 is a thing 10:56:39 or was -O made to alias to -O2 at some point 10:56:40 rather than -O1 10:56:46 -O is equal to -O1, I believe. 10:56:51 Okay, it's -O1 10:56:51 (Still.) 10:57:06 also I think clang doesn't support gcc's fancy -ggdb3 stuff 10:57:08 which makes me sad 10:57:10 I thought it was -O2 ever since the -O[123] were introduced 10:57:13 pgcc -O6 hth 10:57:21 and apparently it doesn't do any more than line numbers if you use anything other than -O0??? 10:57:21 But I'm probably thinking of a different compiler 10:57:28 can I have a compiler refund 10:57:37 Any more than line numbers in what? 10:57:51 -g Generate debug information. Note that Clang debug information 10:57:51 works best at -O0. At higher optimization levels, only line number 10:57:51 information is currently available. 10:57:56 admittedly, this is more reason to use -O0 10:57:57 The return shipping for your gnu is one gnu. 10:58:01 Ah, okay 10:58:14 I don't think I've ever used debug information for anything other than line numbers 10:58:26 well I just like knowing there's something fancy involved you know 10:58:30 In any language, ever 10:58:39 I think -ggdb3 made something perceptibly nicer when I switched to it with gcc 10:58:40 but I forget what 10:58:46 Which is actually a bit surprising now that I think about it, but oh well 10:59:17 -!- rom__ has joined. 11:01:08 -!- rom__ has quit (Client Quit). 11:01:53 building to a ram disk 11:01:55 am I hardcore yet 11:02:04 Is there any other debugging information than line numbers and symtab 11:02:06 oh good that made the build slower 11:02:09 (???????) 11:02:21 Perhaps your ramdisk is swapping 11:08:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:12:01 -!- shachaf has joined. 11:34:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:35:01 so, I came across a fun pathological function in my research yesterday 11:35:27 that I'm having trouble expressing in any programming language (other than languages as low-level as, say, VHDL) 11:35:47 when you call it, it returns two functions/closures, let's call them f() and g() 11:36:06 hi ais523 11:36:09 hi elliott 11:36:20 err, there are side effects involved here, so let me try to be clear about the types 11:36:36 my function is (IO ()) -> (IO (), IO ()) 11:36:40 I think 11:36:44 not very good at Haskell 11:36:50 sounds reasonable 11:37:00 maybe it should be -> IO (IO (), IO ())? 11:37:26 no, I'm reasonably sure it isn't, in this case; there are no side effects involved until you actually execute the return values 11:37:42 OK 11:37:57 so it's just two IO () -> IO () functions 11:38:01 yeah 11:38:20 yep, it's equivalent to that, although conceptually weird thinking about it 11:38:28 actually, hmm 11:38:35 maybe I do need an extra IO in order to avoid having to compare functions 11:38:53 um, that sounds implausible but ok 11:38:55 I guess it is IO () -> IO (IO (), IO ()), just so that the two return values can be aware of each other 11:38:59 ok 11:39:18 anyway, if you call either of the return values, then the original argument starts executing 11:39:39 and the return values stop executing when either the original argument stops executing, or the other return value is called 11:39:52 as in, while the original argument is executing, there has to be at least one of the return values executing 11:39:54 but they can take it in turns 11:40:11 Stop as in they can continue or as in they die 11:40:18 as in it returns 11:40:28 so, e.g., I call pathological(delay 1000), that gives me two functions f and g 11:40:40 if I call f, then it won't return for 1000 time or until I call g 11:40:52 if I call g, then f returns, now g won't return until the original 1000 time is up or I call f again 11:40:54 conflation of functions and programs upsets :( 11:40:58 err, yes 11:41:20 actually in Haskell this doesn't need two functions, because you could call the same function simultaneously from different threads 11:41:50 if you spend a few days staring at linear logic, you start ceasing to be able to comprehend the idea of copying data 11:42:20 so I could just make it (IO ()) -> IO (IO ()) 11:42:27 So this is like a weird version of spawn? 11:42:33 yeah, a bit 11:42:49 it feels like a concurrency primitive, but it doesn't match any of the concurrency primitives I've ever seen 11:42:55 what did you find it in? 11:43:05 it was a counterexample to something I was trying to prove 11:43:19 Such that if you run the action from one thread, it returns in any other thread that's running it? 11:43:36 shachaf: yeah 11:43:58 or well, the idea is that once you start it running, it finishes, but threads can pretty much change /which/ thread is running it arbitrarily 11:44:23 OK. 11:44:42 the analogy I use as a mental model of it is, you start some long-running task that needs someone to constantly supervise it 11:44:43 Instead of being an action can this be a sort of lockish thing? 11:44:50 but you can change who's supervising it 11:45:09 Such that you "wait" on it and then someone else can wait on it instead. 11:45:21 shachaf: I tried to implement it with locks, but failed, and it's quite easy to prove (using the same research that discovered it in the same place) that that's impossible with a static concurrency model 11:45:47 (e.g. one where each fork() has to have a matching wait() called from the same thread) 11:47:41 I guess you could handle it with an integer semaphore and a thread that's happy to clean up for itself and doesn't need to report back to a parent 11:48:58 where is that asshole Phantom_Hoover 11:49:00 hmm… now I'm tempted to add this as a concurrency primitive to INTERCAL 11:49:06 eep 11:49:17 it fits the action-at-a-distance flavour of INTERCAL quite well 11:49:23 did someone make a brainfuck derivative 11:49:27 did you make a brainfuck derivative 11:49:28 he triggered the pbflist and there is no new pbf. false positives are a waste of my time! 11:49:30 hi 11:49:40 quintopia: That's what I said! 11:49:43 pbf = perry brainfuck 11:50:07 Phantom_Hoover: Oh, you're here now. Don't do the thing you did. 11:50:34 `pbflist 11:50:37 pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia 11:50:43 * shachaf sighs. 11:50:47 /kick Phantom_Hoover 11:50:54 You're just being annoying, you know. 11:51:45 i think on some level you're to blame for taking the `list system seriously 11:52:59 any system for systematically pinging people should be taken seriously 11:53:12 ais523, what use is this new concurrency primitive? 11:53:14 because pinging people for no reason is annoying. it's also called "spam" 11:53:22 Vorpal: I don't know that it's useful 11:53:25 the people who do it are called "spammers" 11:54:06 ais523, Are you sure you couldn't implement it with other primitives anyway? I believe I can think of a way, though it isn't wait-free. 11:54:10 i suggest a collective dropping of the topic 11:54:39 Vorpal: as I said, it's provable that you can't do it with a static concurrency model, but if you have more general concurrency models it's implementable 11:54:55 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:55:44 ais523, I admit I'm not an expert on this area, and I'm not quite sure what a static concurrency model is, but I'm thinking in terms of pthreads with semaphores message queues. 11:55:59 semaphores and* 11:56:57 Hm 11:57:08 Or maybe not. I'll have to work out the details 11:58:25 I think pthreads doesn't have any particular "parent" / "child" division, or at least lets children outlive their parents 11:58:28 so it's probably workable 11:58:36 it's surprisingly nontrivial even if your language is expressive enough, though 11:58:39 Well yes, is that a requirement for static concurrency? 11:58:45 I suspect you could do it in terms of a couple of semaphores and mutexes in fact. 11:59:25 Vorpal: that's pretty much what static concurrency is 12:00:37 Here is how I would do it: Transform the task into three functions: f,g and h, have h execute the actual task, in a separate thread, have f and g wait on a signaling semaphore, these can either be signaled by h completing, or the other function of f or g being called. You will need to refine it a bit to handle two functions calling f, or f/g being called after h completes but the idea should work I beli 12:00:37 eve? 12:01:16 ais523, unless I misunderstood the problem that seems like a pretty straight forward implementation in a pthreads style environment 12:01:20 Vorpal: yeah, I think that works 12:01:58 I believe it is an utterly useless thing though. :) 12:02:44 :) 12:02:47 kmc: do you have any particular recommendations wrt what ThinkPads are good to buy (I realise this is hopelessly vague) 12:02:47 out of interest ais523, what else defines a static concurrency model? 12:03:07 elliott: kmc has a thinkpad x1 carbon and it looks p. nice 12:03:24 I love STM, but people say there might be something better possible 12:03:28 Vorpal: well it basically means that your only thread-creation primitive is a "run X and Y in parallel" function, or can be implemented in terms of that 12:03:33 which doesn't return until both X and Y return 12:03:42 Ah 12:03:59 OK, benmachine++ 12:04:08 Er, mis-up-arrowed. 12:04:16 ais523, But you are free to do whatever in terms or semaphores, message queues, critical sections and so on? 12:04:30 Oh well, he helped me with a thing in /msg the other day, he can keep the extra karma. 12:05:12 shachaf: /set window_history on 12:05:15 Vorpal: yes, there's no restriction on synchronization primitives 12:05:23 Also btw, I never understood the difference between a critical section and a mutex. They just seems like two ways to express the same thing? 12:05:36 Vorpal: a mutex is one way to implement a critical section 12:05:49 a critical section is a semantic property rather than some specific implementation 12:05:55 Ah, I see. 12:06:08 elliott: Why do I want that? 12:06:17 shachaf: it makes up-arrow work better 12:06:26 also re: X1 Carbon, that is one of the models I am looking at 12:06:44 I frequently e.g. /msg things to lambdabot and later up-arrow in another window. 12:06:53 Well, I suppose I could up-arrow in the lambdabot window. 12:06:57 Eh. 12:07:01 I'll keep it like this for now. 12:07:12 (The reason for the mis-up-arrow is that my palm touched my touchpad.) 12:07:13 huh, I didn't realise there were clients that didn't have per-window history 12:07:14 the resolution on them is kind of bad though it seems :( 12:07:22 (Which scroled the scroll-wheel, etc.) 12:07:26 (or per-tab) 12:07:27 -!- oonbotti2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:08:10 ais523, you could emulate non-static concurrency in a static concurrency using a concept of worker thread pools? Just start x number of threads and make them never complete. Now you can use message queues to submit jobs, and then you can implement the weird primitive above 12:08:15 Or am I missing something? 12:08:51 shachaf: also they're p. expensive 12:09:02 You can just emulate a non-static concurrency on top using semaphores to signal "completion" of your threads and so on 12:09:18 Vorpal: oh, in my case that didn't work because we can't send anything more complex than an int 12:09:27 the perils of hardware compilation 12:09:31 Well right 12:09:41 I guess you could translate everything into bytecode and then interpret it at the other end :) 12:09:49 elliott: you should get the clevo W740SU so you can tell me whether it's any good hth 12:09:59 ideally I would like something with an ultrabook form factor and battery life and workstation-replacement specs and netbook price........ 12:10:06 ais523, anyway, the concept of static concurrency seems a bit ill-defined if you can just emulate non-static concurrency on top of it. 12:10:19 Vorpal: it's ill-defined if the rest of your system is also ill-defined 12:10:42 if you have a sufficiently well-defined model of what you can and can't do, it's quite easy to define static concurrency too 12:10:46 elliott: i want all that too! let me know when those are invented. 12:10:49 `quote removing concurrency 12:10:51 236) gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult 12:10:59 ais523, well okay, is having full blown semaphores and message queues ill-defined? 12:11:35 Vorpal: if you even have to ask the question, rather than having an answer ready to hand, it means that your system as a whole is ill-defined 12:11:53 like, does this system have higher-order functions? does it have closures? 12:12:05 in particular, can we send a closure through a message queue and get some sort of useful result? 12:12:22 (these problems are nontrivial, e.g. compare "can I send a filehandle over a network connection?") 12:12:35 (in most programming languages, the answer to that is "no"; in CLC-INTERCAL, it's "yes") 12:12:37 In unix you kind of can 12:12:42 For unix sockets 12:12:47 on the same computer 12:12:55 Erlang allows that fully across all nodes of course 12:13:12 ais523, you wouldn't need to send closures though, as you said above yourself, bytecode. 12:13:42 Vorpal: well, now you reach the question of "is this language capable of decompiling arbitrary functions that are passed in?" 12:13:58 again, in some languages (e.g. Java), the answer is "yes", but it's typically "no" 12:14:11 Right 12:15:53 ais523, anyway, you could even in C just implement an interpreter for your own byte code. Or you might not even need that. Something like an enum defining predefined tasks and some arguments to it could be enough to implement a limited number of tasks if that is all you need. 12:16:14 shachaf: also they only have 8 gigs of RAM :'( 12:16:37 elliott: Which one, the X1? 12:16:44 yeah 12:16:52 Yes. 12:17:06 But back in the day you couldn't even get i7+8GB at once. You had to choose 4GB or i5. 12:17:17 nice 12:17:26 Dark old days when kmc was looking at it. 12:17:35 "back in the day" "4 GB" 12:17:40 exactly 12:17:54 I never really used computers in the "640KB is enough for everyone" era 12:18:08 elliott: imo what's not to like about that clevo thing, 4-core haswell cpu, 1920×1080, <2kg, supports 16GB ram, no nvidia optimus 12:18:21 but I did use them in the era when 640KiB was the base memory and you needed to use unusual APIs to access the other 2MiB, with many programs stuck in the bottom 640 12:18:26 ~$1000 12:18:28 which one is the clevo again 12:18:29 except i'm not sure if it's actually good. this is where you come in 12:18:42 the one system76.com is selling among other places 12:18:49 elliott, if you want a powerhouse computer, the business Dells laptops are quite good. Not very portable, and pretty bad battery life. Matte screen and trackpoint though. 12:19:45 Vorpal: not really what I'm looking for, I want the laptop part more for the portability indoors than for it being a desktop you can lug around elsewhere 12:19:52 shachaf: rightb ut I can't find a clevo on system76.com 12:19:52 Hey, I have a Clevo-based laptop. 12:19:56 ais523, I used my dads Mac back then. I never had to deal with that weirdness 12:20:12 elliott: https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1 hth 12:20:19 elliott, yeah I think it was months since I took out my work laptop of the docking station XD 12:20:19 It's from the 2011s, though; and big-and-heavy. 12:20:28 Vorpal: well by then, packagers had got used to the weirdness 12:20:33 elliott: clevo is the manufacturer's name hth 12:20:36 and gave simple instructions about what to put in config.sys 12:20:56 ais523, but wouldn't it possibly break between different programs you wanted to run? 12:21:05 wonder if the touchpad is any good 12:21:39 Vorpal: not really, by that stage it was mostly a case of increasing minimum settings 12:21:48 if you set the settings too high for a program, it'd still run just waste memory 12:22:01 elliott: see, that's the kind of question i need you for answering 12:22:06 ais523, waste memory that could have been used for what? 12:22:06 and that was OK because the programs that could make do with lower settings normally were written for older computers anyway which had less memory 12:22:13 heap/stack 12:22:21 putting the settings up higher meant the kernel had to use them 12:22:27 Hm 12:22:29 err, the kernel had to use more memory 12:22:32 leaving less for userspace 12:22:47 ais523, didn't some DOS programs put the computer in a 32-bit mode while running? 12:22:59 http://www.avadirect.com/gaming-laptop-configurator.asp?PRID=19611 <- I have this thing | it is so big. 12:23:08 shachaf: are there any system76 display models in stores anywhere 12:23:15 elliott: I doubt it? 12:23:23 I mean, maybe. Who knows. 12:23:36 Vorpal: there were "DOS extenders" that put the system into protected mode, then turned it back into realmode whenever something tried to make a system call, so that DOS would work correctly 12:23:38 fizzie, 17" heh, yeah those are big 12:23:40 how lenient is their return policy 12:23:47 and which handled some 32-bit system calls themselves 12:23:50 heh 12:23:56 NetHack for DOS works that way, for instance 12:24:07 DOOM works that way. 12:24:07 halp how do i frink 12:24:16 elliott: Here's Clevo's own web page on what I'm told is the same thing: http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/products/prodinfo.asp?productid=472 12:24:25 (I think. At least a lot of games come with DOS4GW.) 12:24:27 fizzie: I had to mess around with DOS extenders for making the NetHack TAS 12:24:41 including fixing the emulator so that it could handle at least one of htem 12:24:56 does the X1 have haswell 12:25:10 no 12:25:25 almost no one has haswell so far 12:25:33 what is new in haswell? Even stupider instruction names? 12:25:49 i hear you should wait until september or so if you want reasonable haswell options 12:25:55 Aren't there some Apples with Haswells? 12:26:00 the macbook airs have haswell 12:26:07 Yes. 12:26:12 unfortunately the pros don't, I was hoping to see what the retina would be like with haswell 12:26:21 since that could be a pretty compelling option for me 12:26:31 wow this system76 clevo is cheap 12:26:47 elliott "the x1 carbon is p. expensive" elliott 12:26:57 Vorpal: Are you saying VPUNPCKHQDQ is a stupid name! 12:27:09 fizzie, yes! 12:27:12 it only has 2.0 ghz so it's going to feel very slow no matter how fast it is :'( 12:27:21 btw, what does that one stand for? 12:27:34 help, which kind of SSD is the best 12:27:44 the most expensive one hth 12:27:52 elliott, I like the Intel 520 SSD at work. 250 GB 12:28:08 Pretty expensive IIRC 12:28:23 Vorpal: vex parallel unpack something something hth 12:28:31 Ah 12:28:56 fizzie, does sandy bridge have that one? I want to test it out 12:28:56 16 gigabytes of RAM and 256 gigabyte SSD and 1 TB HD for $1432...... that's pretty good 12:29:02 *and haswell 12:29:05 *and 1080p 12:29:07 fizzie, to see if it is the right choice for me 12:29:09 *and IPS 12:29:13 *more things 12:29:14 Vorpal: V for "vector" (probably), P possibly as a prefix for "packed", then UNPCK for unpack, and HQDQ for "High Quadwords to Double-Quadword". 12:29:26 Vorpal: And no, it was an AVX2 instruction. 12:29:37 Ah 12:29:38 fizzie: Doesn't V stand for "three-operand"? 12:29:40 Vorpal: You probably do have the plain PUNPCKHQDQ though. 12:29:46 heh 12:29:59 shachaf: Oh, sure, "thVree-operand", of course. 12:30:13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEX_prefix 12:30:15 elliott, both SSD and HDD? Must be a pretty heavy laptop 12:30:15 Something like that. 12:30:46 shachaf: I still guesstimate that the 'V' in the name originally derives from the word vector. 12:30:50 fizzie: Anyway if PFOO exists in SSE and you have plain old AVX isn't that enough to be able to use VPFOO with SSE registers? 12:30:55 Vorpal: 1.72 kg by default apparently 12:30:59 Vorpal: default = HD and no SSD 12:31:16 doubt the SSD is heavy enough to make the total not light 12:31:18 Not too bad 12:31:31 shachaf: Only the floating-point stuff is in plain old AVX, I think. 12:31:40 shachaf: AVX2 extends to integer datatypes. 12:32:09 my current laptop is like uh 12:32:12 fizzie: Yes, but if you just need SSE instructions, i.e. on xmm registers, I think you can use the VEX prefix. 12:32:13 1.4 kg or something 12:32:18 so I bet this one would feel super heavy :( 12:33:16 elliott, I think mine is closer to 2.5 kg or something 12:33:45 my current laptop: ~3kg? 12:33:46 shachaf: Look, all I know is that VPUNPCKHQDQ is in http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2011/06/13/haswell-new-instruction-descriptions-now-available 12:34:28 fizzie: Maybe they mean that it works on YMM registers now? 12:34:42 shachaf: what is your current laptop 12:34:46 dell xps 15 12:34:49 l502x 12:35:19 i hope the blurriness of the screen in https://c12278716.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/galu1-e791e840dd9d7623d0228ca15867ae74.jpg is just a bad photo 12:35:35 oh it's not even blurry there 12:35:40 it's just downsized on the web page so it looks blurry? 12:37:22 fizzie: Anyway I could've used AVX2 back when I was writing some SSE code. :-( 12:37:51 "Haswell, will travel." 12:38:40 elliott: anyway tell me if you find a better computer than that one along the relevant axes 12:42:39 ais523: Are there any INTERCAL implementations that use the Haswell PDEP/PEXT instructions for select/mingle? 12:45:30 fizzie: not as far as I know 12:45:56 perhaps it could be added as an alternative in C-INTERCAL's libick 12:45:58 So behind-the-times. 12:46:10 it /would/ be the sort of thing I'd like doing, but I wouldn't be able to test it 12:46:32 do you need someone to donate you a haswell computer 12:46:34 for the good of intercal 12:46:54 Maybe a kickstarter. 12:46:58 elliott: if they just donate me a patch, and convincingly claim it works 12:47:11 ais523: there are lazy people with money 12:48:50 how many of them care about haswell-accelerated INTERCAL, though? 12:49:15 elliott, seems haswell is less energy efficient than ivy bridge hm 12:49:22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)#Performance 12:49:31 And harder to overclock 12:49:32 -!- johnny57 has left. 12:50:07 Vorpal: isn't it meant to be much more energy efficient 12:50:29 It is. 12:50:36 Well I don't know, I just pointed you to the source I saw it on. It could be that it is more energy efficient for the given performance 12:51:18 not like anyone wants to overclock a laptop anyway 12:51:28 Yay wikipedia is quoting two sources that are both the same text??? 12:51:35 The Haswell architecture is specifically designed[5] to optimize the power savings and performance benefits from the move to FinFET transistors on the improved 22 nm process node.[6] 12:52:21 Vorpal: probably an attempt by one of them to drive traffic to their site 12:52:22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haswell_Chip.jpg what causes the repeated patterns on chips like these 12:52:28 like I assume they're a bunch of duplicates of the same thing? 12:52:28 ais523, probably 12:52:49 elliott, isn't that a waffer with multiple CPUs? 12:52:51 elliott: most commonly it's RAM (e.g. L2 cache) 12:52:59 if it's a large repeating area 12:53:04 Vorpal: oh maybe 12:53:15 unfortunately we will never know because ais523 won't click it :P 12:53:17 elliott, but inside each CPU there are repeating patterns as well yes 12:53:32 although that particular image may just be multiple chips 12:53:37 I have a hard time believing the entire CPU is much smaller than a pin 12:53:42 elliott, well it says waffer in the description below 12:54:16 elliott: basically chips have to be that small, a single impurity makes the entire chip unusable 12:54:18 elliott, I would guess the CPU is about as bit as the pin, that is, the largest scale repeated structure is one CPU each. 12:54:23 so they need to make them small to fit between impurities on the wafer 12:54:28 big* 12:55:00 Vorpal: well it would be awfully thin if so 12:55:12 ais523, isn't that the point of three core CPUs? One of the cores had an impurity in it? 12:55:23 elliott, not sure that is unlikely though 12:55:38 Haswell GT2's die size is listed as 177 square millimetres; that's a 13 mm x 13 mm square, if square. 12:55:44 Vorpal: yeah 12:55:50 they're failed attempts to make quad core CPUs 12:56:09 ais523, presumably some of the dual core CPUs are quad cores with two failed cores as well? 12:56:23 AMD still does 6-core CPUs right? what's up with that? 12:56:27 Vorpal: that's less likely, that'd be rare enough that it wouldn't be worth their time to separate them out and market them 12:56:28 8-core CPUs where two failed?? 12:56:30 they'd probably be thrown away 12:56:34 elliott: they might just be made as 6 12:56:45 Hm 12:56:55 I guess you don't really get 8 cores on a single CPU much 12:58:02 elliott, anyway yeah, I suspect within each CPU, there is L2 cache in one area of the chip and then 4 cores, then some shared stuff at the top. That would fit with other (annotated) images I have seen of dies. 12:58:24 fair enough 12:58:54 Vorpal: The GPU is a big block there too, probably. 12:59:00 elliott, the bottom part might be cache, then each of the 4 repeated bits could be a core, then at the "top" there is some common bus, power supply, clocks or similar. That is a rough guess. 12:59:08 fizzie, yeah I suggested that above. 12:59:23 Vorpal: The mostly dark-red one, I think, based on the shapes of http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2234017 12:59:48 elliott, anyway most of a physical CPU's area is just to allow for all the pins at a scale where the pins won't break if you touch them. 13:00:10 fizzie, oh okay, so reverse of what I was thinking then 13:00:56 wait, you said GPU not CPU sorry 13:01:01 the words, they look similar 13:02:24 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:04:05 elliott, that is one reason why the companies try to put more stuff on the CPU (such as GPUs), less pins to go to external locations. (The other reason I can think of is less latency) 13:04:26 also less size presumably 13:04:35 Well that is an effect of less external pins 13:04:45 right 13:05:42 SOCs (System-On-a-Chip), such as found in phones, takes that even further, often integrating sound, wifi, bluetooth, DSPs and so on as well. 13:06:35 The PC is in a bit of a weird spot there, since adding the GPU onto the chip doesn't actually reduce number of pins currently. You still need that PCI express bus anyway. 13:06:53 So latency would be the primary reason there I assume 13:07:22 And reduced costs, not having to make separate integrated GPU chipsets (at least for Intel) 13:09:51 ais523, What is the next step after 22nm? 13:10:15 Also why did they go for 22 nm rather than 21 or 23? Or maybe 22.5? 13:12:00 14 nm is the next one. 13:12:28 Hm 13:12:59 Then 10, 7 and 5, but that's a bit speculative? 13:13:02 Vorpal: I don't really care, I just write compilers that design chips, I don't actually make them 13:13:33 And still they only recently started taking advantage of 3D structures I believe? Previously it was mostly layered 2D right? 13:14:21 Wouldn't it be more efficient to design a cubic CPU? That would make the signal paths shorter it seems to me? A bit more complicated cooling though I guess 13:15:10 A "bit" more complicated to manufacture using current lithography techniques, most likely. 13:15:24 hm true 13:15:59 fizzie, how do you even do more than one layer currently? 13:16:28 Deposit a new layer of silicon on top? 13:17:15 I don't know; another question along the same lines (where the answer is most likely "by being clever") is "how do they draw 20nm lines using light with wavelengths in the hundreds of nm?" 13:17:37 They use electron beams nowdays iirc? 13:18:17 Well, it *exists*; I don't know what e.g. Intel uses at the moment. 13:18:25 well even the really low tech photolithography that schoolchildren use to make PCBs uses ultraviolet 13:18:26 Right 13:18:36 that cuts your nanometres down a bit 13:18:38 "Intel has already outlined a path to use 193 nm immersion lithography down to 11 nm node" that's still light. 13:18:47 Hm 13:19:11 ("Immersion lithography is a photolithography resolution enhancement technique for manufacturing integrated circuits (ICs) that replaces the usual air gap between the final lens and the wafer surface with a liquid medium that has a refractive index greater than one. The resolution is increased by a factor equal to the refractive index of the liquid.") 13:19:15 fizzie, I know they use double masking. Where they first use one mask then switch to another offset mask. 13:20:52 "Extreme ultraviolet lithography" has the greatest name. 13:20:54 fizzie, hm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-dimensional_integrated_circuit 13:21:08 Seems like it is in the works 13:21:34 Well, they have to do something. 13:22:10 More cores? More optimised instructions? There are lots of way to continue increasing performance in the future 13:22:46 Maybe an FPGA section of the chip that could be optimised for each application 13:22:50 That would be cool 13:24:16 Apparently Intel has done some forays to the EUL direction. 13:24:26 EUL? 13:24:38 oh, Extreme ultraviolet lithography? 13:25:08 Isn't that into xrays already? 13:25:25 "Extreme ultraviolet lithography (also known as EUV or EUVL) is a next-generation lithography technology using an extreme ultraviolet (EUV) wavelength, currently expected to be 13.5 nm." 13:25:45 Apparently it's still ultraviolet down to 10 nm. 13:25:50 Huh 13:25:54 Then x-rays from 10 to 0.1. 13:26:30 "The Intel Lithography Roadmap" requires a login. I wonder if I have an Intel account. 13:26:39 And gamma below that? 13:27:06 why would a lithography roadmap require a login? 13:27:50 ais523: http://noggin.intel.com/content/the-intel-lithography-roadmap -> click link -> "To access this additional content, you must first log in. If you haven't yet registered, please sign up. It's quick, it's free, it's easy!" 13:27:59 I guess that's not an answer to the "why". 13:28:10 yeah, that's merely a statement that the roadmap requires a login 13:28:21 "Lithography technologies, such as 193nm, 157nm, and EUV lithography, which have benefited from Intel investment, have gained industry acceptance, while competing technologies, such as x-ray lithography, are no longer being pursued." 13:28:26 I like the way they put it. 13:28:40 fizzie: how good is the clevo's touchpad :P 13:28:46 elliott: I think it's p. standard. 13:29:36 standard is bad 13:29:44 ive never met a touchpad i didnt dislike..... 13:30:45 Same, go for trackpoints. 13:31:13 fizzie: that's a pretty evasive way to praise themeselves 13:31:16 *themselves 13:31:43 like, I'd be surprised if there were any ASIC manufacturing technologies that Intel hadn't put at least a bit of money into determining how well they worked 13:34:39 I think it sounds more like a threat. "Nice lithography technology you've got here. Would be shame if something happened to it, and it was no longer pursued." 13:35:09 Except they're the ones giving the money instead of getting it. 13:36:14 Is there actually any sharp difference between 11 nm UV and 10 nm x-ray? 13:36:27 It sounds more like an arbitrary line 13:36:44 There's a one nanometer difference hth 13:36:50 "That's pretty sharp." 13:37:02 XD 13:37:04 I think most of the distinctions between different sorts of light are pretty arbitrary 13:37:13 even visible, because not everyone's eyes are identical 13:41:59 "Note that there are no precisely defined boundaries between the bands of the electromagnetic spectrum; rather they fade into each other like the bands in a rainbow (which is the sub-spectrum of visible light)." Some Wikipedia editor's being very poetic there. 13:42:07 (I was looking for standard definitions.) 13:43:59 ITU apparently has standard names, numbers and frequency boundaries for things that can be called radio, from EHF to ELF, but don't extend outside those bounds. 13:48:06 Oh, the low-frequency end only starts from ULF, officially. (It goes ULF, VLF, LF, MF, HF, VHF, UHF, SHF and EHF.) 13:48:45 Wait, no; there is ELF, but it's four bands wide, and in a separate table; and SLF is missing. Way to be logical, guys. 13:49:08 I thought ELF was an executable format 13:50:26 Ultra-Linkable Format, Very Linkable Format, Linkable Format, ... 13:50:47 The Super-Linkable format is missing. 13:51:00 Fortunately, the Extremely Linkable Format is objectively better. 13:51:01 High Frequency, Very High Frequency, Unusually High Frequency, Surprisingly High Frequency, Excessively High Frequency 13:52:47 ion: Apparently some authors[1] use THF for "Tremendously High Frequency". 13:52:56 Your names fit that pretty well. 13:53:10 [1] Tanenbaum, Andrew (2002). Computer Networks. page 101: Prentice Hall. p. 912. ISBN 978-0-13-066102-9. 13:54:00 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:55:23 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:58:47 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:03:28 Someone should figure out a way to take photos in radio wavelengths. I want to look what it looks like when I stand in front of a wifi router. 14:05:32 Vorpal: I imagine it'd look much the same as taking a photo of a lightbulb 14:06:03 routers don't send signals that turn corners for the same reason that lasers don't shoot out light sideways in real life, like they do in films 14:06:11 Hm, surely I wouldn't be completely invisible? 14:06:25 oh, I thought you were taking a photo of it 14:06:33 rather than someone taking a photo of you next to it 14:06:38 yeah, you'd probably be at least slightly visible 14:06:40 ais523, me standing in between camera and the router 14:06:44 although human bodies don't block radio waves very well 14:06:48 Hm 14:07:03 (this is part of the reason radio is used for communication) 14:07:31 Most of the world would be transparent. That would be pretty cool I think 14:07:51 Well not fully transparent 14:07:56 But partly at least 14:08:31 hmm, I imagine the main technical obstacle to building a camera like that is that it would have to be tens of metres across, or perhaps more depending on the wavelength 14:11:22 Hm, reading up on MIMO (curse you wikipedia, I started out reading about lithography and ended up at MIMO...). That is pretty clever. 14:15:15 If antennas length need to match the wavelength, why does normal FM radio work? You can just turn a dial or press a few buttons, and it doesn't extend or retract the antenna afaik. 14:19:22 Vorpal: it doesn't need to match exactly; it works better the closer the match is 14:19:26 Ah 14:19:33 but it'll still work at non-100% efficiency if the match isn't perfect 14:19:41 you get some of the signal reflecting rather than being transmitted 14:30:09 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:34:06 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:45:31 @tell oerjan < oerjan> was that command ever intended to have a useful purpose? <-- no 14:45:32 Consider it noted. 14:54:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:55:46 `olist (899) 14:55:48 olist (899): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 14:55:57 Oh, I bet oerjan joined to tell me. 14:56:06 lambdabot: boo 14:56:15 shachaf: O KAY 14:56:27 hmm i bet 900 will be big and important?? 14:56:39 ooo! 14:56:58 um were previous round numbers important? 14:57:22 maybe 14:57:27 some of them? 14:57:35 http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html looks kind of important i guess 14:58:16 nice timing xykon 14:58:18 maybe 400 is important 14:58:19 well, given what happened in 898 14:58:21 500? i don't know 14:58:23 it's probably the end of the story arc 14:58:43 Oh, do you read `olist? 14:58:47 Do you want to be added to the list? 14:59:00 shachaf: nah, I just check manually from time to time 14:59:10 I have no particular reason to have up-to-the-minute updates 14:59:14 given that it updates kind-of slowly anyway 14:59:19 also that I'm often not in the channel 14:59:25 We've noticed. 14:59:40 wait, ais523 is here! 14:59:46 and I'm often offline even when I'm not in the channel 15:00:01 You were gone for so long that the channel sprouted some new ops. 15:00:46 right 15:01:08 I'm probably going to leave again tbf, except perhaps when something new happens that I care about talking about 15:02:07 Well, it's nice having you here, when you're here. 15:02:59 (So you should stay.) 15:27:35 Re "photos in radio wavelengths", there's a couple of cameras that take "photos" of sound -- http://phys.org/news/2013-05-world-handheld-camera-ready.html and the like. 15:30:55 if an NFS mount gets so broken that you cannot even kill -9 processes trying to access it, must a linux machine then be rebooted? 15:31:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:31:21 You should fix the NFS server and hope it recovers hth 15:31:47 well the thing is the _server_ is fine, it's the client which has problems :P 15:33:02 also it's not actually me who is administrating this, i'm just wondering if i can expect to get kicked off when they fix it. 15:34:15 by the server is fine i mean that i can access my mail inbox fine from a third machine. 15:36:23 That doesn't really guaratee the health of the NFS service operating on it, though. (I think in most cases rebootless fixes should be possible.) 15:36:45 ok 15:37:15 (the third machine also accesses via NFS, of course) 15:37:59 (Or "non-fixes" of the kind of "let the process stay dead, lazy-unmount the broken NFS mount, and wait for the next scheduled reboot for a more permanent solution".) 15:38:39 hm 15:39:21 as long as they can remount a second time... 15:39:39 otherwise no one can access mail from this machine. 15:43:15 A lazy umount just removes the mount from the filesystem tree; it shouldn't be a problem mounting something working in its place, unless of course the NFS client code makes that a problem. 15:44:17 okay 15:45:25 The NFS hangups I've seen at work lately have ended at I/O errors in the process (in a reasonable time; not days) -- possibly corresponding to people doing something to the server. But I don't admin those either. 15:48:08 i suppose there may not be any admins active at the moment. yesterday there was a different but probably related problem and i quickly got an email back. 15:48:43 elliott: yes, the X1 Carbon is nice, I can talk about its strengths and weaknesses if you like 15:51:10 kmc: sounds good! I am really tired but if you have a monologue I will read it and I might have more questions tomorrow 15:58:15 -!- conehead has joined. 16:00:52 ais523: i haven't read all the logs yet, but it looks to me like your concurrency primitive should be trivial to implement in haskell 16:01:22 oerjan: I'd like to see the impl; also I don't know how concurrency works in Haskell, which is part of the reason I wouldn't try to work it out myself 16:03:28 oh except for one thing, it definitely cannot be pure, you'd want to allocate an MVar to communicate between invocations. 16:04:18 kmc: alt. we can do it tomorrow 16:07:42 tomorrow sounds good 16:07:44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16:17:46 Urgh, lame doesn't take flac as input. Now what? (No I can't use ogg here, the device I need to put this on only supports mp3) 16:18:34 Insert lame pun here 16:19:16 Very nice 16:20:07 Vorpal: flac --decode --stdout foo.flac | lame --preset standard /dev/stdin ... or whatever 16:20:10 maybe you need a temp file 16:20:34 What does flac --decode output? PCM? 16:20:48 a .wav file I think 16:20:53 Right 16:21:43 ffmpeg -i foo.flac -o foo.mp3 or whatever 16:22:33 elliott, lame --help says - will work for stdin so that should be good 16:22:44 Deewiant, Is that better than lame? 16:24:31 for i in *.flac; do flac --decode --stdout "$i" | lame --preset extreme - "${i/.flac/}.mp3"; done <-- this should work right? Not sure about that /.flac/ syntax, but I think it is correct? 16:24:46 yeah it seems correct 16:25:12 except this takes ages, how to parallelize? I usually use xargs -P 16:25:33 there's that GNU parallel thing. 16:25:50 btw, --preset extreme is overkill. 16:25:53 Hm, yeah doing this with xargs would be complicated, maybe through a sh call 16:25:56 elliott, oh? 16:26:06 elliott, anything between standard and extreme? 16:26:13 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:26:40 Deewiant: But ffmpeg is deprecated!1 16:26:54 uh, I don't think so. but I really doubt standard fails to be transparent on non-pathological examples without equally pathological listening conditions 16:26:55 fizzie, what? 16:27:18 Vorpal: The command-line tool, I mean; tou're supposed to use "avconv" these days. 16:27:30 it's like 190 kbps and LAME is p. good at encoding 16:27:45 fizzie: did the original ffmpeg project give up or is it still a hostile fork situation? 16:27:52 fizzie, huh 16:28:01 See: http://sprunge.us/TbBh 16:28:19 And I think avconv's part of the official ffmpeg now, or something. I haven't really been following. 16:28:49 It's not 16:29:24 I guess it's a "libav" thing, mhmm. 16:29:28 ffmpeg 0.10's changelog from 2012 says " 16:29:29 all features from avconv merged into ffmpeg" 16:29:34 Don't know what that means 16:30:18 I don't know either. 16:31:40 Okay, I guess you shouldn't be using avconv if your libavcodec and friends comes from FFmpeg and not libav. 16:31:47 I'm glad it's not confusing or anything. 16:33:50 http://blog.pkh.me/p/13-the-ffmpeg-libav-situation.html 16:34:40 elliott: so the main good things are, it's thin, light, and has a screen with a not embarassingly low resolution 16:34:57 (1600x900 while the other ultraportable thinkpads are 1366x768) 16:35:33 battery life is fine (I get about 5 hours in a moderately tuned Linux system) but the battery charges really quickly, which is nice 16:35:56 like it will charge from 20% to 80% in 30 min or so 16:35:58 (includes stuff about the deprecation warning) 16:36:04 "-- a FFmpeg/Libav war child --" 16:36:12 A tragedy. I shed a tear. 16:36:16 I hear there are Ivy Bridge power management improvements in Linux 3.10 and I should try that 16:36:44 also it suspends and resumes from RAM *really* fast 16:36:50 like resume takes 1 second before the machine is completely usable again 16:37:04 there's no reason why suspend to RAM should be slow, but it's always been a bit slower on other thinkpads i've owned 16:38:08 $ ffmpeg 16:38:08 WARNING: gnome-keyring:: couldn't connect to: /home/arvid/.cache/keyring-cU64W7/pkcs11: No such file or directory 16:38:12 Why? WHY!? 16:38:21 Why is ffmpeg doing that?! 16:38:52 hahaha 16:39:40 kmc: do you have any idea if it might be getting Haswell any time soon 16:39:55 no clue 16:40:03 i'm no expert on lenovo kremlinology 16:40:12 I couldn't even get a straight answer as to when the i7/8GB model would be available 16:40:34 kmc, is it not possible to add a few extra RAM modules yourself? 16:40:41 nope 16:40:44 What?! 16:40:45 kmc: I think you can get i7 + 8GB now 16:40:45 it's an "ultrabook", RAM is soldered on 16:40:47 shachaf told me tales 16:40:49 ouch 16:40:58 kmc, yet another reason to go for normal laptops 16:41:13 itt Vorpal and I have different utility functions 16:41:15 have to admit I fail to see the reasoning here 16:41:16 elliott: yeah, also there's a touch version now 16:41:21 kmc, right. 16:41:35 so yeah, you can't upgrade the RAM 16:41:40 "you can't get 8 gigs of RAM so you should get a machine that is worse at doing what it's for in every respect other than it happens to have 8 gigs of RAM" 16:41:48 except I have 8 gigs of RAM!! 16:41:52 but I wish I had 16 :( 16:41:55 you maybe can't remove the SSD either; I need to try that 16:42:07 in the past the ability to quickly remove the hdd from thinkpads has been very useful in disaster type situations 16:42:22 I've heard the SSD is a mSATA card but I've also heard otherwise 16:42:24 elliott, I like having the ability to extend the hardware easily as my needs changes. 16:42:54 kmc: yes my main misgivings look like (a) no quad core (solved by haswell??) (b) intel graphics (made less bad by haswell??) (c) 8 gigs of ram limit 16:43:02 seems reasonable 16:43:02 (d) the screen could do with being even higher-resolution...... :( 16:43:13 yeah there will probably be a 'retina' version someday 16:43:21 you could get a chromebook pixel instead ;P 16:43:27 or I think samsung has a high dpi laptop too now 16:43:30 whatevs 16:43:40 kmc, on my thinkpad I only need to remove a single screw to change the HDD. I need to remove 4 to reach the RAM modules. 16:43:44 I am also looking at https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1 because of shachaf 16:43:53 Vorpal: yes I have owned thinkpads before as well 16:44:02 kmc, Anyway should my ram break I can replace it. Couldn't if it was soldered on. 16:44:07 I have 32 :3 16:44:10 have you ever had RAM break 16:44:17 for which my main misgiving is whether the touchpad is any good 16:44:21 Fiora: I interpreted that as "I have 32 Thinkpads". 16:44:30 (and whether iris pro is actually decent enough) 16:44:32 kmc, Not for ages. (Early 2000s iirc) 16:44:34 other issues: Linux hardware support isn't *quite* there yet. it's mostly fine, but occasionally sound freaks out, this can usually be fixed by removing and reinstalling the kernel module, but not always 16:44:46 I've occasionally had similar issues with wireless too 16:45:00 neither is frequent enough to really be annoying 16:45:22 I wonder if I can keep listing drawbacks of this machine without Vorpal assuming that I'm a dumbass who didn't know these things when I bought it 16:45:23 ... gigabytes XD 16:45:38 and listing irrelevant facts at me 16:45:39 Fiora: how much have you actually managed to use 16:45:44 kmc, I'm not assuming you are a dumbass :P 16:45:44 I mean ignoring disk caches and stuff 16:46:14 And finding out linux hw support in advance tends to be rather hit or miss I found. 16:46:34 kmc: don't forget to mention the keyboard 16:46:36 elliott: also it takes a different power adapter plug than other thinkpads :( (the standard round barrel is too thick for the case) 16:46:52 well I don't have any thinkpads and never have so that's not really a concern at least :P 16:46:54 ok 16:47:00 elliott: um... I think I probably use like up to 2 or 3 GB for a game? plus a few gigs for other things so probably like 8-10 16:47:02 I had quite an investment in old-style power adapters 16:47:10 the disk cache is nice though! albeit not quite as useful with an SSD 16:47:28 oh right! when I was playing around with ECM factoring I got to use 23 GB and actually ran out? xD 16:47:38 kmc: Do you do any programming? 16:47:42 also there's no onboard Ethernet; it ships with a USB Ethernet adapter that is only supported by recent-ish Linux (see http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/12/hex-editing-linux-kernel-modules-to.html) 16:47:52 I could probably use 32 GB just by compiling enough Haskell packages in parallel I guess 16:47:56 Any actual programming I mean 16:47:58 FreeFull: what, do you mean "do i do any work instead of hanging out on IRC all day" 16:48:05 kmc: yes =P 16:48:08 =P 16:48:15 I have a meeting in 10 min 16:48:23 but yes I did write code yesterday 16:48:28 "how is your IRC performance" 16:48:29 Incidentally, do you have to give Kensington® some money if you put a Kensington® hole® in your thing? 16:48:35 "have you sold any ThinkPads lately" 16:48:39 "are they believing your Mozilla cover story" 16:48:49 kmc: You could take a look at the driver code and fix it once and for all 16:48:50 elliott: um... I think I probably use like up to 2 or 3 GB for a game? plus a few gigs for other things so probably like 8-10 <-- I mainly found that I use my 16 GB of RAM for running hundreds of chrome tabs. 16:49:01 elliott: also the only video port is Mini DisplayPort; if you want VGA or DVI or HDMI you need an adapter as well, and that one is not included 16:49:08 Also the occasional game, minecraft with mods especially. 16:49:27 And of course panorama stitching, but that is not a very common activity. 16:49:35 I mainly use the 16 gigs at work to hold large matrices. 16:49:44 Vorpal: I have hundreds of tabs open regularly in Firefox, and it doesn't take anywhere near that much RAM 16:49:46 kmc: no biggie 16:49:53 FreeFull: oh also my code was building, that's my other excuse 16:49:59 Just Gaussian random data if I can't figure out what else to put there! (Not really.) 16:50:04 kmc: have you added any code yet 16:50:08 yes 16:50:08 FreeFull, well of course chrome doesn't take it all. Usually about 1 GB total as far as I can tell. 16:50:13 fizzie: I hope your matrix multiplication algorithm has good cache locality 16:50:16 FreeFull, but it gives room for still doing other stuff 16:50:44 elliott: https://github.com/mozilla/servo/commit/9f6de7e5e30ff84bbe04d22c04a22fa33e4aa8e7 https://github.com/mozilla/servo/commit/cfffd0542404b60923f3f524f5144693d9b89f00 v. important changes 16:50:47 FreeFull: It's MATLAB's matrix multiplication algorithm, I'm sure it has all the good things and none of the bad things; I mean, MATLAB. It's got MAT right in the name. 16:50:53 The only benefit I would have from 16GB would be more filesystem cache 16:51:14 it's amazing how quickly n+1 browser tabs can eat up 8 GB 16:51:15 I wonder what you need matrices that big for 16:51:31 kmc: those both look more like removing code to me 16:51:31 Rodina MAT 16:51:36 elliott: yes isn't it great 16:51:40 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:51:42 I asked if you added any! 16:51:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:51:51 fizzie, is that the "brand" of the holes? 16:51:54 go write some hacks to handle awful CSS edge-cases 16:52:11 Vorpal: Officially it's a "Kensington Security Slot", I think. 16:52:11 fizzie, I never seen a Kensington lock, I only ever seen other brands that fit the same hole. 16:52:34 "Address pcwalton's comments" "Address pcwalton's nits" wow pcwalton, give em a break 16:52:46 I've only seen the holes. Well, I guess I've seen a couple of locks at stores and so on, don't know which brand. 16:53:05 fizzie, we have locks at work. 16:54:18 Some no-name brand lock I believe. Not that we need it. Just a general company laptop security policy. 16:54:49 FreeFull: Well, you know... so many things are en-squared. If you have a 30k-dimensional vectors and ask for something that wants to make a covariance matrix, that's 30000 x 30000 = 900 million 8-byte floats = 6.7 gigs right there. 16:56:21 Now I'm wondering where you need 30k-dimensional vectors 16:56:44 finns live in a 30k-dimensional universe 16:56:54 this is how fizzie plans his commute 16:57:03 Must be very confusing 16:58:01 fizzie: At least you don't have to calculate a 30k x 30k x 30k tensor, then you'd never have enough RAM =P 16:58:42 FreeFull: Activation vectors for a 30k-element dictionary of atoms hth 17:00:57 FreeFull: Also sometimes you have 30k 39-dimensional vectors and accidentally give it to the function transposed, because half the functions expect observations in column vectors and other half in row vectors. (The truth comes out.) 17:01:28 fizzie: Oh, you're doing a physics simulation? 17:01:38 Ok, that explains everything 17:01:44 fizzie: it's ok to admit finns live in a bizarre and disorienting world, incomprehensible to all outsiders. 17:01:47 I mean, we already know that 17:02:03 You know all those dimensions from string theory? Yeah, they've all curled up in Finland. 17:02:49 (Also I don't really do physics simulations, I just like to refer to audio frames as "observations".) 17:08:45 Wait, 30000 x 30000 matrices for audio? Just what are you doing? 17:20:14 As I mentioned, activations for a 30k element dictionary of "exemplars". 17:20:36 It's a source separation thingie based on a NMF decomposition. 17:30:39 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:32:26 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 17:32:27 -!- tswett has joined. 17:32:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:33:21 -!- conehead has joined. 17:34:13 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 17:42:56 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:03:05 hm. I went to bed at a reasonable time, but only properly woke up just now 18:03:26 odd 18:03:31 did you improperly wake up before that? 18:03:49 oddly enough elliott just went to sleep 18:04:17 kmc: yes 18:04:36 then I had increasingly weird REM half-sleeps 18:04:51 so I suppose it's not like I was getting actual rest out of that 18:11:44 Fiora: Have you installed a small spy camera in elliott's room? (Clearly the most likely conclusion.) 18:14:30 Occam's razor suggests that assuming it's small is superfluous 18:14:36 I was talking with him -_- 18:15:08 I think that's just a cover story. 18:15:51 he's a cutiepants okay I can't help it 18:19:01 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:20:11 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:26:56 tricked again by /bin/sh -> /bin/dash 18:32:10 static THROBBER: [char, ..8] = [ '⣾', '⣽', '⣻', '⢿', '⡿', '⣟', '⣯', '⣷' ]; 18:34:22 I didn't realize where those characters are from but it should have been obvious really 18:41:52 I bet blind people get totally confused when reading the output from that software. 18:43:39 I bet it looks fancy as anything, though. 18:43:50 there are fancy devices that do dynamic embossing, but that seems no harder to do with plain letters. 18:44:58 people who use Braille likely know ASCII better than any of us not from the punchcard era 18:45:00 Also, what *is* that from? Isn't Braille just three rows? 18:45:22 super cool extended braille isn't 18:46:09 Apparently so. 18:51:25 > text [chr $ ord '⣟' Data.Bits..&. ord '⣾'] 18:51:26 ⣞ 18:51:28 cute 18:52:19 the Debian installer has lots of support for braille ttys, also for speech synthesis of the menus 18:52:22 pretty cool 18:54:17 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:59:01 > text [chr $ ord '⣟' `xor` ord '⣾'] -- less cute 18:59:03 ! 18:59:17 They should've put that stuff right at the beginning of Unicode, for cuteness. 19:00:33 blind superiority 19:00:43 > text [chr $ ord '⠀' + (ord '⣟' `xor` ord '⣾')] -- magic space fix 19:00:44 ⠡ 19:03:00 Steam is just crawling today :/ 19:03:14 the backend... so unresponsive.... 19:03:16 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:03:29 > text ['⠀'..'⣿'] 19:03:30 ⠀⠁⠂⠃⠄⠅⠆⠇⠈⠉⠊⠋⠌⠍⠎⠏⠐⠑⠒⠓⠔⠕⠖⠗⠘... 19:03:34 Awwww. 19:03:50 lambdabot: You could've done a little more than that. 19:03:51 :t text 19:03:52 String -> Doc 19:03:56 clearly we should use these as a text transport for binary data 19:04:03 > ['⠀'..'⣿'] 19:04:04 "\10240\10241\10242\10243\10244\10245\10246\10247\10248\10249\10250\10251\1... 19:04:08 Not much better. 19:04:12 8 bits each right? 19:04:14 (The multiline query version looked nice.) 19:04:22 are some combos verboten 19:04:33 btw today is free slurpee day at 7-Eleven 19:04:36 maybe only in the USA 19:04:50 AIUI, there's quite a few Braille variants, esp. concerning the 8-cell versions. 19:04:58 But Unicode has the whole set of symbols. 19:05:02 the reason: date +%m-%d 19:05:47 Never forget, 7/11. 19:06:30 There are no 7-Elevens in Finland. 19:07:02 (There are some in Denmark, Norway and Sweden, which I don't think is entirely fair.) 19:08:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:08:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:09:56 Ohh, the Steam Summer Sale. So that's why everyone's[weasel words][dubious - discuss] talking about Steam, and it's down. 19:10:30 * Gracenotes goes to Discussion:Fizzie 19:10:50 er, Talk:Fizzie. it's been a while. 19:10:55 That would be Tal... right 19:11:27 I'm not even mentioned at Talk:Bath bomb, and Talk:Bath fizzie is a redlink. :/ 19:11:49 [[ "Wave 4" was released in August 2005, and it included Bertie, Purkle, Spangle, Dilly, Skinker, and Fizzie. ]] 19:11:57 In good company, I'd say? 19:12:02 redirect talk pages are unloved 19:12:18 But "Bath fizzie" isn't a redirect. 19:12:30 or there was some mess with exchanging articles, redirects, and disambiguation pages, and the talk pages went along for the ride 19:12:38 It's a really kinda weird article instead, and completely different than the Bath bomb one. 19:12:57 I think perhaps written by a chemist, or something. 19:13:02 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 19:13:30 "-- designed to effervesce in personal bath water -- amorphous grains of homogeneous mixture -- solid boluses of homogeneous or inhomogeneous mixture -- ingredients must include one or more acid(s) and one or more water-soluble bicarbonate, sesquicarbonate, and/or carbonate -- other water-soluble, water-dispersible, and/or volatile ingredients --" 19:13:33 oh. slap a merge tag on it, or something. 19:13:50 What, me, edit Wikipedia? I'm not one of those guys. 19:14:00 I /used/ to be one of those guys 19:14:24 Did you know that: In principle a fizzie could release phosphoric anhydride gas, but the release of gas from phosphate salts is so slow that any phosphates present in either beverage or bath fizzies are for other purposes. 19:14:55 In practice, I only release phosphoric anhydride gas after very specific meals. 19:15:32 (There's also gratuitous use of bold.) 19:15:46 Is it you who releases it or intestinal bacteria? 19:15:54 Or, perhaps, both? 19:16:57 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 19:22:25 -!- mtve- has joined. 19:30:58 -!- TeruFSX has quit (*.net *.split). 19:31:01 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 19:31:01 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 19:31:01 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 19:37:38 -!- Koen_ has joined. 19:39:09 -!- Koen__ has joined. 19:39:10 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:41:04 Oh god, a full screen installer with a blue gradient background. This is old! 19:41:12 Why did they ever do that btw? 19:41:26 -!- yiyus has joined. 19:41:26 -!- Fiora has joined. 19:43:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:44:57 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322255 19:46:11 -!- tswett_ has joined. 19:47:53 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 19:48:51 -!- tswett_ has quit (Changing host). 19:48:51 -!- tswett_ has joined. 19:52:40 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:52:42 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:52:44 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:52:44 ion, heh 19:53:51 http://www.imdb.com/media/rm465020160/tt2724064?ref_=butt 19:58:18 -!- tswett_ has changed nick to tswett. 20:11:52 ref_=what? 20:12:31 Okay, I wonder if all you wonderful people can help me with a problem I'm facing. 20:12:41 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 20:12:44 So I want to store a directed acyclic graph in a database. 20:13:21 Whenever I try to add a new edge to the graph, I first look up all paths that would create a cycle with that edge. 20:13:30 Meaning that I have a table containing all paths. 20:13:56 The table has three columns: "head", which is the first edge in the graph; "last", which is the last; and "tail", which is a reference to the tail of the path. 20:14:46 So the path table forms a tree. 20:16:01 Whenever I add a new edge, I need to add new paths containing that edge. But I can't figure out a good way to do that. 20:16:08 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 20:18:16 all paths? isn't that an exponential number? 20:18:31 Potentially. 20:18:43 eesh, that sounds painful 20:18:46 I guess the algorithm is reasonably straightforward, now that I think of it. 20:18:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:19:03 maybe it would be better to have some storage method that doesn't involve exponential space <.< 20:19:06 Start with a list of all relevant paths already in the database, then just recursively extend them backwards. 20:19:11 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 20:19:15 If performance gets to be an issue, I'll rethink stuff. 20:21:10 if anyone spoke to me in privmsg in about the last 2 hours, my nick has been a ghost 20:21:32 tswett: you look for paths that would create a cycle just to throw an error if you find one, or for some other reason? 20:21:44 if you just want to know "would this new edge form a cycle" then there are simpler data structures you can use 20:22:13 kmc: for some other reason. I need to do something with every edge in the cycle. 20:22:18 oh 20:22:29 And then delete one of the edges. 20:24:04 isn't hpaste.org alive any more? 20:24:42 might it not be a little less exponential to like, store the results of an all-pairs shortest path thing? 20:24:50 I think that's N^2 if you do it the dynamic programmy way 20:25:10 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 20:25:17 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 20:25:18 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:25:57 Fiora: well, adding a single edge could create exponentially many cycles, and I could potentially want to operate on all of them. 20:26:41 So whatever method I use needs to be able to tell me about all of those cycles. 20:27:14 yeah, but like, you can have exponentially many *paths* without having exponentially many cycles 20:27:46 ... huh ... 20:27:57 exponential in what 20:27:58 how do you distinguish different cycles? like what counts as two different cycles 20:28:32 made up of different vertices? 20:28:38 like if A->B, B->C, B->D, C->A, and D->A, is A->B->C->A and A->B->D->A two different cycles? 20:28:57 i would think so... 20:29:34 why wouldn't they be? 20:31:05 actually um. that's a question if you have a directed acyclic graph with V vertices and E edges, what's the maximum number of cycles adding an edge could create... 20:32:21 Fiora: it should be maximized by adding the final mossing edge to make a complete graph 20:32:25 *missing 20:32:53 (complete in both directions) 20:34:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:36:04 could such a graph have no cycles? 20:36:32 http://i.imgur.com/BbPmpQi.png here's an example I was thinking of... I guess this example does create an exponential number of cycles 20:36:33 oh wait 20:36:35 sorry 20:36:40 (red is the new edge) 20:36:57 as the number of vertex in the diamond gets larger, I think the number of cycles approaches 2^V? 20:37:06 since like, there's a branching factor of 2 20:37:34 2^(V/2) 20:37:55 maybe more 20:38:20 i know some people who were working on problems of graphs like this 20:39:45 the branching factor is 2 for the bottom half, but maybe no be on the top half. the actual number of paths is given by a nice recurrence relation i think 20:40:42 https://github.com/mozilla/rust/issues/7048 20:40:52 I think the recurrence relation will involve a two times something n-1. 20:43:25 (Intuitively speaking, the paths after going left first + the paths after going right first, which look like they'd be smaller semi-diamond-like graphs.) 20:45:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Sleep soon). 20:45:10 hpaste is down :/ 20:45:14 need to link some amusing things from there 20:46:07 kmc: lpaste 20:46:32 kmc: http://lpaste.net/ 20:46:36 (#paths(n) = f(n,n) where f(n,m) = f(n-1,m) + f(m,n-1); add some base cases and solve; and the n in #paths(n) is sqrt(V). Or some-such.) 20:47:03 FreeFull: Does lpaste have hpaste pastes? 20:47:12 fizzie: I think so 20:47:17 FreeFull: Fancy. 20:47:49 http://lpaste.net/1 dated 2008 20:48:26 fizzie: I think it actually is hpaste 20:48:32 Just with a different name and domain 20:49:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:51:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:51:55 http://oeis.org/A000984 is the number of paths for a diamond with edge size (number of vertices) of n, I think. (I might have gotten that all wrong.) 20:53:11 The comments seem to bear it out. E.g. "Number of possible values of a 2*n bit binary number for which half the bits are on" aka "number of ways you can take left and right paths to end up at the top of the diamond". 20:54:28 ("The number of lattice paths from (0,0) to (n,n) using steps (1,0) and (0,1)" is even closer.) 20:57:24 isn't that exactly the same 20:57:45 They're comments for the same sequence, of course they're exactly the same. 20:58:08 I just meant "closer to Fiora's Diamond™". 20:59:00 i meant the number of lattice paths is the same as paths in the diamond 20:59:25 Well, yes. 20:59:39 I mean, it was supposed to be, too. 21:06:20 I guess you could just chop off the top half of the diamond and have everything connect to one top point 21:09:22 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:09:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:14:55 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 21:16:05 That'd be, what, 2^n paths, with V = n*(1+n)/2? 21:18:08 (I guess +1 for the star at the top.) 21:20:30 kmc: hpaste is up, it's just the domain. 21:20:32 @where paste 21:20:32 http://paste.tryhaskell.org/new/haskell 21:21:04 Oh, lpaste is the same thing now. 21:22:36 what's Fiora's diamond 21:22:39 (tm) 21:24:15 i found the formula guys 21:24:25 http://oeis.org/A000984 21:24:33 that's for the nxn diamond 21:25:12 i'm glad to see fizzie figured out the same recurrence i did while i was in the shower :D 21:25:39 and found the same sequenc 21:25:46 yay being late to the party 21:26:41 did elliott decide on a laptop 21:26:52 he's asleep right now, I think 21:26:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:29:04 -!- Bike has joined. 21:29:44 The number of direct routes from my home to Granny's when 21:29:44 Granny lives n blocks south and n blocks east of my home 21:29:44 in Grid City. To obtain a direct route, from the 2n 21:29:44 blocks, choose n blocks on which one travels south. For 21:29:45 Maybe that's just what he wants us to think? 21:29:46 example, a(2)=6 because there are 6 direct routes 21:29:56 i wish i had thought of that solution 21:30:06 geez it's so obvious in retrospect 21:32:51 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:33:37 Finding Granny: so easy, a pushdown automaton could do it. 21:34:32 I wonder what sort of space you get if you add diagonal paths 21:35:08 diagonal to the southeast? 21:35:30 quintopia: Just in general 21:35:35 Since it wouldn't be taxicab space anymore 21:35:40 the recurrence gets much uglier 21:36:08 For the southeast? Isn't that just +f(n-1,m-1)? 21:38:53 http://oeis.org/A001850 and so on. 21:51:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:52:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:55:33 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:55:49 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 21:56:12 (The general taxicab-with-diagonals distance is called Chebyshev distance, or chessboard distance (king moves), or maximum metric (from D(a,b) = max_i |a_i - b_i|), or probably by some further names.) 21:59:19 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 22:01:39 Thanks fizzie 22:02:02 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:02:12 I remember looking at it earlier but I forgot about it 22:03:42 Seems Chebyshev and Taxicab metrics are duals of each other or something 22:04:22 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:05:12 fungohno 22:05:30 fungone 22:06:24 -!- fungot has joined. 22:06:30 fungoback 22:09:21 shachaf: one cool thing in Rust is that you can put debug print statements all over your code, and then enable them at runtime with an env var 22:09:34 and you can do this on a per-module basis, without needing to reiterate the name of the module on each print statement 22:09:49 I feel like a lot of languages should have this, but I don't think I've seen it before 22:10:28 kmc: So it's like assert in C but for printing? 22:11:00 it's a debug print statement, haven't you seen those before 22:11:33 Bike: kmc's point is that they are always in the code, but only turn on when compiling with debugging 22:11:35 not ones where you leave them in and then you say "enable debug printing for module foo:bar" at runtime 22:11:41 FreeFull: no do pay attention please 22:11:47 > enable them at runtime with an env var 22:11:48 Not in scope: `enable'Not in scope: `them'Not in scope: `runtime'Not in sco... 22:11:51 fff 22:11:54 Oh, runtime ones 22:11:58 that's what you get for 4chanquoting. 22:12:13 Bike: That quote style is much older than 4chan 22:12:13 These pens are not for everyone. They are pens that are for people that appreciate quality and are willing to spend a little extra on having something that is fairly unique. EiMIM stands for Everything in Moderation, Including Moderation. Most of the time I try to keep things as simple as possible, but every once in a while I need to embrace indulgence. Will a $2 pen write? Absolutely. The thing is, there is no soul in that pen. It was ... 22:12:20 ... produced with a million other pens exactly like it. These pens are different. 22:12:29 Bike: yks is amazing xD 22:12:39 I've seen lots of logging systems but usually you're required to name some "logger" on each print statement and that's what you can enable/disable 22:12:50 rather than it being implicitly controlled by the current module 22:13:00 kmc: Some of fancy C 'dprintf' macros (or whatnot) do enablation based on __FILE__ or top-of-source-file "MODULE" macro. 22:13:01 Bike: I'd say to that person, "If you like pens so much, make them" 22:13:09 kmc: #define log(s) real_log(__FILE__, s)? 22:13:09 fizzie: that's cool 22:13:31 Oh, fizzie said that. 22:14:09 Also __VA_ARGS__ so you can be all format string. 22:14:32 Yes. 22:16:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:17:59 -!- Bike has joined. 22:18:49 https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/728/934/bf0f707a2fbf5f442603d2a948ac8761_large.png?1373294172 22:20:06 FreeFull: oh they are making them. they are in-deed. 22:20:35 Bike: Is Amazon Aws where they serve all the kitten pictures from? 22:21:09 yes. 22:22:08 Bike, why... 22:22:50 Phantom_Hoover: uh did you see the table i think it's pretty clear. 22:23:59 what's the titanium 5 being used for 22:25:48 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eimim/eimim-x-y-and-z-pens1 here 22:26:03 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:26:11 something's gone wrong, Bike 22:26:14 something's gone wrong 22:26:41 yes and that thing is not enough craftsmanship 22:26:49 It's the extra 1 at the end 22:26:55 so i take it that these pens are A Bad Thing 22:26:58 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jul/08/mos-def-force-fed-guantanamo-bay-video 22:28:21 oh, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eimim/eimim-x-y-and-z-pens 22:28:35 what do the x, y and z indicate 22:28:41 also fuck his oxford commas 22:28:45 Bike: There's a better chart at http://www.sourcereal.com/ 22:29:01 that's true 22:29:03 not in png form though!! 22:29:11 I'd rather have a copper pen 22:29:26 Bike: Well, print it out and photograph it if you want a png. 22:29:58 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:29:59 why would you use a png for a photograph 22:30:07 Bike: To waste bytes 22:30:13 finally, pens for insufferable people 22:30:31 fungone 2: fungone harder 22:30:34 Bike: because it's a photograph of text 22:31:36 i like how the 'seamless design' is accomplished by cutting grooves all the way up the pen to make it hard to see the seam with the cap 22:31:44 haha 22:31:55 "I use the strongest permanent neodymium magnets available. They provide a unique and innovative method of attaching the cap to the back of the pen during use." 22:32:15 lol. 22:32:17 you are, er, calling the use of magnets to stick things together innovative 22:32:29 "yeah bitch! magnets!" 22:32:38 Strongest possible neodymium magnets 22:32:42 Phantom_Hoover: to be fair i don't think i've ever seen that in pens. 22:32:47 That cap isn't coming back off 22:32:52 That pen would be a hazard 22:33:20 Bike, yes, probably because for, say, any kind of practical pen design it wouldn't really work 22:33:28 don't be a h8r. 22:35:35 ALSO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNxhYdWEZHk 22:35:52 if anything that's MORE INNOVATIVE 22:36:22 hahaha this is so dorky. 22:36:36 patented magnetic engineering physics. 22:37:21 is this seriously $30 for two pens. 22:37:37 and in the end they're still shitty biros 22:37:54 Bike: http://yourkickstartersucks.tumblr.com/post/46417947427/hey-congrats-on-inventing-the-bowl-the-cookie 22:38:04 High milk displacement dunk technology. 22:38:28 this is taking the piss right 22:38:57 nope, $7,734 was donated (though it wasn't funded, so) 22:39:11 well i mean, they're probably writing it in a jokey tone 22:39:25 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1339254269/ron-paul-road-to-revolution 22:39:25 as a smokescreen over the fact that this is bullshit 22:39:26 wait 22:39:29 that got funded? 22:39:32 ron paul is a classic. 22:39:45 was it... a joke? was it funded as a joke? 22:39:47 Phantom_Hoover: that's the game, right? i don't think it's been made yet 22:40:12 wasn't it a blatant scam or something 22:40:12 wasn't that the thing where like the guy ended up admitting he had no idea how to make a game? 22:40:25 yeah 22:40:28 so it just kinda died 22:40:36 Basically, here's the problem: that finger extending, fist jamming, glass tilting lean to stretch for a dunk in those last few ounces of milk. It's an awful scenario. Best case? A partial dunk. Worst case? Milk spillage or you drop the cookie in and fish it out with a fork. 22:40:58 https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/438/812/28ef07a4bfb36e7852b766519f2f734e_large.png?1363050910 22:41:15 how many cookies are you dunking for god's sake 22:42:05 Is this part of the new face of American Manufacturing? 22:42:08 Yes! This is about how a small business, with a 3d printer in the back room (we don't even have a garage!), can iterate and develop an idea and then use Kickstarter to raise funds for production tooling. We work with local companies because ethically we think it's the right thing to do and it makes the most sense for a small company to manage the logistics. Our injection molder, packaging printer, assembly facility, warehouse, and order fulfi 22:42:30 also that thing reminds me of those glasses that are supposedly modelled on a breast or something 22:42:39 snort. 22:43:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:44:49 yourkickstartersucks is the greatest 22:46:05 wait 22:46:07 wait 22:46:20 OK so that eimim pen thing 22:46:39 one of the potential refills listed are the ones for fisher space pens 22:47:07 thing is, fisher space pen refills are a complete ink + nib assembly 22:47:29 so he's not just charging $55 for a ballpoint pen, he's charging $55 for a ballpoint pen casing 22:48:55 look if you buy expensive things then you're just flaunting wealth but if you buy expensive "minimalist" things then you can somehow pretend that it's morally justified and makes you better on an aesthetic plane as well 22:49:23 anyway as usual: a pen that does what I want is minimal, a pen that does what you want is bloated 22:50:00 (are you... insinuating that buying expensive things isn't morally justified) 22:50:23 I think I read somewhere that all Disney movies have Mickey Mouse in them, but does that include Pixar? 22:50:53 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/aural.html 22:50:58 you shouldn't believe all that you read! 22:51:11 Oh, you mean hidden mickeys? 22:51:25 Bike: Yes 22:51:35 why wouldn't pixar have those 22:51:59 I have sometimes found Mickey Mouse in some Disney movies I have seen, without being told about it before, but mostly I haven't done so. 22:52:29 Phantom_Hoover: I don't know. I haven't seen it in any Pixar movies. 22:52:37 (But maybe I just didn't notice it) 22:53:08 kmc, this is brilliant 22:53:17 i mean i don't know if it's a joke but it's brilliant either way 22:54:30 http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/std/local_data.html weird module imo 22:56:48 http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-special-offers-forum/682220-memejacker-limited-reopening-popular-demand-rave-reviews-fastest-results-i-have-seen.html finally, i can make my own website. 22:58:00 don't jack my memes 23:00:32 It took me a while to begin realizing that might not actually be a joke. 23:05:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality 23:05:14 these statistics are starting to immensely confuse me 23:05:42 i mean according to these statistics the poorest ten percent of the bolivian population earn more than the richest 10%, afaict 23:06:58 it says 93.9, so that's 93.9 times more for the richest 10% than the poorest 10% 23:07:10 er, sort by CIA R/P 10% 23:07:25 that's still positive. 23:07:39 ...yes, but it's a ratio 23:07:46 the average income of a member of the top 10% is 93.9 or 157.3 times the average income of a member of the bottom 10%. 23:08:01 oops, over one i meant, yeah, not positive. 23:08:04 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 23:08:16 those numbers aren't percentages 23:08:20 ... yeah 23:08:22 haha, no. 23:08:28 *facepalm* 23:08:44 unless you think the top 10% of the UK earn a tenth of what the bottom 10% do ;) 23:08:46 yeah the numbers make a lot more sense now 23:09:11 gini is a percentage, though. 23:09:27 (not that it's all that great as a metric but that's another matter) 23:12:18 (i think i was thinking it was p/r in percent) 23:13:36 yeah having % in the column title desn't help 23:13:57 http://yourkickstartersucks.tumblr.com/post/47199723497/a-set-of-wooden-apple-keyboard-replacement-keys 23:14:05 i read this as 'tactical keys' 23:14:10 it was confusing and awesome 23:14:47 Hmm, what would tactical keys be like? 23:15:13 i'm not sur 23:15:14 e 23:15:43 maybe they'd have little scopes fitted to them? 23:15:55 "...I could totally see one of them under my iMac screen, sat on my chipped old marble-topped desk" -WIRED 23:16:17 wired.txt 23:16:35 ugh this thing is so ugly 23:16:45 Aren't those basically just pieces of wood, made sticky on one side, and cut to match the keys? 23:16:52 yes 23:16:56 Lame 23:17:03 i imagine they'd be horrible to use 23:17:18 it's a tactile experience 23:18:04 Every set of Engrain Keys has it's own inherent beauty and natural tactility, turning your keyboard into an individualized work of art that will compliment your desktop, and engage your senses every time you type. 23:18:38 Note: Engrain Keys are not recommended for installation on laptops, as the clearance is inadequate when closed and could result in scratching the screen. 23:18:56 it's 23:19:33 "The idea for the Engrain Tactile Keys originally spawned from my graduate thesis work " must not stereotype must not stereotype 23:19:52 https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/378/842/d09309f192b8847a72846f77ef5d0cf8_large.jpg?1360358317 aghaghagh 23:20:08 dear god 23:20:38 it's like typing on lays 23:20:50 i wonder if they're actually cut to the grain of the wood or if they just cut some template onto it 23:20:53 i wonder which is worse 23:21:21 looks like they just cut holes in a plank 23:21:26 you get the rest of the plank with the keys 23:21:49 yes but planks tend to be flat 23:22:09 in fact i imagine it's very hard to get any other kind of plank 23:22:33 if it's not flat it's not a plank it's just part of a tree 23:26:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:27:47 Bike: when I went camping someone else had this amazingly comfortable foam mat made of fancy foam with circular holes cut in it... they told me that there's a company selling earplugs to the military and they sell the leftover sheets of foam as camping mats 23:27:52 i was super impressed 23:28:23 nice 23:28:46 i'm sure i've heard other stories about industrial processes like that 23:31:16 * kmc → afk 23:45:32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Terminal_Event_Management_Policy 23:46:03 Bike: http://jeb.biologists.org/content/early/2013/06/27/jeb.087809 23:46:07 still good 23:46:20 Fiora: yeah that's been going around 23:46:27 fucking crazy far as i'm concerned 23:46:52 i guess i should actually read the paper, the news i've seen is a bit ambiguous 23:47:01 something about needing a refresher training session after the decaptation 23:47:21 (man jeb has the coolest papers) 23:49:29 also good: i've been to campus twice, haven't paid tuition yet, aand have still gotten dozens of papers from campus access. 23:55:59 Fiora: ...the paper has line numbers. i have never seen this before. 2013-07-12: 00:01:25 The team injected their snails with two different types of lyophilized bacteria, Escherichia coli and Microccocus lysodeikticus, as well as ground-up gonads from an unlucky snail infected with a trematode parasite. Some snails escaped these treatments and just received innocuous injections of snail saline or ground-up uninfected gonads. 00:15:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:16:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:21:54 there's an animal eating the inside of my wall 00:22:11 it makes a lot of creepy noises 00:36:03 :( I can't download Java 6 anymore without having an Oracle account 00:40:37 I probably shouldn't be giving a Java 6 application Administrative privileges anyway 00:41:45 Bike: oh gosh, I found this thing on yks 00:41:52 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glennf/crowdfunding-a-guide-to-what-works-and-why I still can't get over the fact that this. existed, and /failed/ 00:42:16 well did it fail 00:42:22 he cancelled it like halfway in 00:42:58 yeah, I mean, like. levels of irony 00:44:15 I'm still waiting on a Kickstarter project I backed in 2011 00:44:26 which one's that 00:44:34 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1508284443/grandroids-real-artificial-life-on-your-pc?ref=live 00:44:38 was it one of the first wave or was it something depressing and Sgeo 00:44:45 oh it was something depressing and Sgeo 00:45:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:45:51 Sgeo, i'd give up hope 00:47:22 Well, I mean, he's still working on it 00:47:26 I can see his blog posts 00:47:48 yes 00:47:53 ........AND I HAVE A COMPUTER THAT CAN RUN IT.... when it goes into backer-only beta someday 00:48:10 but this is pretty much a textbook case of a kickstarter that's doomed 00:48:16 at least, a game kickstarter 00:48:35 I think he got the creatures to balance themselves 00:50:19 @tell Bike I couldn't find a copy of the book with the laughterless planet in it. So I'll take a different one. 00:50:19 Consider it noted. 00:53:14 -!- Bike has joined. 00:53:49 Sgeo, well like he's working without any kind of oversight or authority from the people funding him 00:54:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKRpxj5sqg8&feature=youtu.be 00:54:25 and from past experience i suspect what'll happen is he'll piss that time away because there's no pressure on him to deliver rather than tinkering away forever and you'll all be left at a loss 00:54:46 Fiora: https://twitter.com/Fausto_Sterling/status/355437744085938179 00:54:49 (scroll up) 00:54:59 shachaf: that workz 00:55:12 woow. 00:55:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Planaria_nervous.png kind of shitty as brains go, tbh 00:55:56 when you look at that it's not really all that surprising is it 00:55:58 on the other hand the paper claimed that they don't move while headless 00:56:11 so probably the "brain" does have the CPG sort of things 00:56:16 or drivers anyway 00:56:51 (is that thing about dinosaurs having a secondary neural cluster to control their hind legs actually true these days?) 00:57:07 I guess when they finally get working head transplants on mammals we'll be able to get a bigger idea of how non-brain memory works? 00:57:15 or, well. non brain cognition things in general 00:57:21 well, it's... a lot different between planarians and vertebrates. 00:57:35 i mean i dunno about you but even as a bike i'm like 2000% more cephalized than those things. 00:57:41 xD 00:57:45 ... cephalized? 00:57:49 Wait, Bike is a bike? 00:58:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalization I had no idea this was a thing 00:58:08 yeah, there are degrees of headedness. 00:58:19 a jellyfish or w/e doesn't have a centralized brain, unsurprisingly, just a nerve net 00:58:34 so does it... ever concentrate at the... non-head end 00:58:54 the "head" for this purpose is defined as the bit with the brain, so 00:58:57 the head end's wherever it ends up concentrating, of course 00:59:13 it's not inherent that shit comes out the other end, if that's what you're thinking 00:59:15 Bike, well like all the other things generally associated with 'head' 00:59:31 'bit that goes forward', 'bit where food goes in', 'bit where eyes are', etc. 00:59:39 well once you have a brain having the sense organs nearer the brain is obviously advantageous 01:00:11 having your eyes behind you isn't very good, motion-wise 01:00:12 yes, but you can have things in metastable but non-optimal positions can't you 01:00:18 I remember hearing a thing that like, the brain would internally delay signals from closer sensory organs so that everything was synchronized? 01:00:24 or is that just like, a conscious illusory effect 01:00:36 it was something along the lines of "technically, tall people experience the world with very slightly more delay" 01:00:43 Fiora: that's a theory, yeah 01:00:44 because their feet are farther away 01:00:55 Phantom_Hoover: yeah but not seeing well means dying fast. 01:01:13 Bike, er, what does seeing 'well' mean 01:01:31 i'm thinking about the 'bit that goes forward' question 01:01:35 The hell? 01:01:37 i mean aren't mammaly eyes pretty shit as eyes go 01:01:38 say you had an animal with a head, and eyes on the tail 01:01:41 Are my icons shared between users? 01:02:02 I deleted an ActiveWorlds shortcut off my Work user, and I don't see it on my Home user's desktop 01:02:04 pretty easy to sneak up and decapitate it, see 01:02:35 Phantom_Hoover: as for dinos, i found http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/365/did-dinosaurs-have-a-separate-brain-in-their-behinds. the answer seems to be no. unfortunately. 01:02:53 are there any vetebrates with a split or spread out nervous system? 01:02:58 Bike, well i was thinking more basic stuff i guess 01:03:07 Fiora: what do you think your spinal cord is :p 01:03:12 I have seen recent movies from Touchstone and Pixar (both of which are Disney), and I didn't see Mickey Mouse (although I wasn't really trying). Is it only their hand-drawn cartoons that have Mickey Mouse? 01:03:18 I meant, like, the brain itself,sorry >_< 01:03:20 that shit is /loaded/ with CPGs lemme tell you 01:03:29 CPG? 01:03:32 well i mean, what's "the brain itself". the spinal cord is part of the CNS 01:03:41 central pattern generator, sort of vaguely like a clock 01:03:52 oh, so like phased locked loops for neurons? 01:04:02 yeah. 01:04:20 I guess like. a human brain seems to keep working mostly fine with a severed spinal cord though? 01:04:22 pretty much exactly that in fact. 01:04:44 Fiora: the brain also works mostly fine with a hemisphere removed~ 01:04:52 ... that's true <.< 01:05:12 (mod development) 01:05:23 :( Active Worlds is behaving dumbly 01:05:25 but like how much of her brain does buttercup not have 01:05:37 it seems a little odd to define the spinal cord like that ? I don't know you know more than me 01:05:59 well, yeah, if you mean do you need the spinal cord to be a poet or w/e then yeah you don't. 01:11:06 in the "spinal cord injury" article on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Man_falling_of_horse.jpg "Falling as a part of recreational activities can cause spinal cord injuries." 01:12:42 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:18:02 Fiora: so um... there is a fairly high degree of decentralization in vertebrates even; i mean we have lots of autonomic ganglia too: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Gray839.png 01:24:16 -!- aloril_ has joined. 01:27:09 Bike: I guess what I'm kind of thinking of is like um... 01:27:20 the human nervous system is kind of like a tree, isn't it? like the stomach doesn't really talk to the leg 01:27:27 but they both talk to some central nerve 01:27:38 are there cases where the nervous system is more like... a graph? 01:27:47 aren't cephalopods like that 01:28:02 jellyfish are like tha.t 01:28:11 invertebrates generallly don't have notochords, i guess 01:28:17 i don't know much about their anatomy though :( 01:28:20 like, two brains would be more like a graph 01:28:24 than one 01:28:32 wow I used graph theory to describe this I am a dork 01:28:50 well neuroscientists do it too "it's cool" 01:29:19 i'm not sure what the adaptive advantage of having two brains would be, though. 01:29:43 I mean, how often do you use a tree with two roots 01:29:45 it's a reasonable enough way to describe something which is... made of nodes connected by edges 01:29:58 although i guess on the neuron level it's not that graphy 01:30:18 it's pretty graphy in some micro situations 01:30:34 c.f. everything ramon y cajal ever drew 01:31:10 http://25.media.tumblr.com/c0cc8be3d7d1cc3cf4512fc69ce9a8a6/tumblr_metattU8KO1rvzqmmo1_400.gif "good tree, imo" 01:31:11 well i mean, graphs aren't necessarily the best abstraction to use 01:31:18 since they have axons and dendrites ans all that shit 01:31:28 directed graph. 01:31:52 on the level of individual neurons it's inaccurate sure, but that's some dorky shit annyway 01:32:26 http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v4/n1/images/nrn1010-f2.jpg the neuron people came from the sky to rule us 01:33:44 Bike: http://aegisaglow.tumblr.com/post/55219226085/neurosciencestuff-first-man-to-hear-people wow this is timely 01:33:53 " The only multicellular animals that have no nervous system at all are sponges, placozoans and mesozoans, which have very simple body plans. The nervous systems of ctenophores (comb jellies) and cnidarians (e.g., anemones, hydras, corals and jellyfishes) consist of a diffuse nerve net. All other types of animals, with the exception of a few types of worms, have a nervous system containing a brain, a central cord (or two cords running ... 01:33:59 ... in parallel), and nerves radiating from the brain and central cord" 01:34:02 i gues that answers the question of whether anything actually has two brains. 01:34:38 Fiora, you're under arrest for aiding and abetting crimes against colour coordination 01:34:44 yeah, that was a weird case. brain problems generally are some fucked shit, imo. 01:34:57 color... color coordination? @_@ 01:35:15 he's saying the blog is ugly 01:35:18 that's not my blog :< 01:35:25 that's haven's blog 01:35:26 Fiora, hence 'aiding and abetting' 01:35:27 kind of have to agree, really 01:35:35 or, as we call it in scotland, 'art and part' 01:35:36 ;_; 01:35:46 do you actually say that 01:35:54 scots law is great 01:36:16 you're the guys where you can be "guilty but not proven", yeah? 01:36:35 it's just called 'not proven' i think? 01:36:37 but yes 01:37:34 originally it was just guilty/not proven but at some point a jury pointedly ruled 'not guilty' and the two acquittals just kind of coexisted 01:40:36 hm, xenoturbella are deuterosomes but don't have brains 01:41:01 the other one i remember is that the person upon whom a crime was visited is referred to as 'the complainer' 01:41:26 haha 01:42:07 http://www.accessscience.com/loadBinary.aspx?filename=YB051410FG0010.gif gonna use my authority as a bikeologist to say xenoturbella look terrible 01:44:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 01:45:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:48:21 Bike, but look they have a groove! 01:49:19 no they entirely lack groove or funk of any sort 02:05:36 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:10:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:14:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:16:49 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:17:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:18:52 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 02:19:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:24:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:26:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:36:17 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:36:18 https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/400/035/d1871725b651f53a9094e9b9d803ef6e_large.jpg?1361420820 02:39:04 -!- Gregor has joined. 02:43:44 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:45:28 -!- Bike has joined. 02:49:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:21:25 Gracenotes: Oops, I guess I forgot to click the button for bacat. 03:21:33 So I guess I'll be on the waitlist too. 03:21:38 Or I could just not bother, and just show up. 03:28:34 This sounds like a plan 03:28:58 I think people are more likely to cancel without telling anyone 03:29:13 it would be a shame to go all the way into SF, though 03:29:33 though not in general 03:30:38 I'll ask Vlad, I guess. 03:31:03 * Sgeo wants to combine a WorldsPlayer-like architecture with WebGL 03:31:35 Although WorldsPlayer-like might not be that descriptive 03:37:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:46:01 Is good.example.com safe from evil.example.com? 03:46:12 Or should example.com make sure evil.example.com doesn't exist 03:46:23 (user created Javascript and HTML pages) 03:47:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:50:04 Good news, everyone! 03:50:20 elliott now knows how to count to two! 03:50:38 -!- Bike has joined. 03:50:39 Sgeo: I'm pretty sure that foo.example.com and bar.example.com are totally separate and can't interact with each other. 03:50:54 you got some omichronic? 03:52:15 oh wait, that epside isn't out yet 03:52:20 nevermind 03:52:27 *episode 03:52:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same_origin_policy 03:52:57 Looks like foo.example.com can interfere with example.com, however. But example.com can't interfere with foo.example.com. 03:55:19 doesthiswork: i'm ready for the next episode 03:55:41 I'll link you 03:58:32 quintopia: http://watchacartoon.vv.si/ro/Watch-Futurama%20Season%207%20Episode%2016%20T%20The%20Terrestrial-_-aHR0cDovL3d3dy53YXRjaGNhcnRvb25vbmxpbmUuY29tL2Z1dHVyYW1hLXNlYXNvbi03LWVwaXNvZGUtMTYtdC10aGUtdGVycmVzdHJpYWw= 04:02:58 kk 04:04:40 Gracenotes: I asked Vlad and he said I could just show up. 04:11:33 shachaf: I don't know Vlad, perhaps I shall be forbidden :o 04:11:47 They don't really ask about names or anything. 04:12:18 Hopefully we get to use the big room again. The small room is, uh, too small. 04:33:02 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sigh). 04:33:29 -!- Bike has joined. 04:37:30 Fiora: http://www.superksonic.com/the-project 04:49:53 shachaf: Logically, though, isn't the big room then, uh, too big? 04:50:22 You should ask for the suitably-sized room instead. 04:55:39 fizzie: That one is, uh, too suitably-sized. 04:58:18 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:58:21 ic 05:00:43 Sgeo: http://nomic.zbasu.net/nomicbank/userinfo/sgeo/ 05:00:53 Sgeo: it doesn't do much, though; it's just a thing for tracking debts. 05:01:01 In three different currencies, even. 05:01:18 ...why did I initially think that would be a LambdaMOO thing? 05:03:30 http://www.mudlet.org/ 05:03:38 Hmm, how do mappers like that work? 05:03:46 And do they assume MUD, and not work in a MOO 05:08:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:09:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:17:34 so am I confused, or do iterators basically work as an explicit (but not much more verbose and less magic) version of stream fusion? 05:17:58 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 05:19:37 What kind of iterators? 05:20:22 python-style - i guess really the same thing as streams but without skip 05:20:51 ah, i was confused - they do, but trivially so 05:22:14 the only magic rewrite rule in haskell's stream fusion is that stream+unstream is the identity 05:23:41 so if you just be upfront about doing things with iterators, there's no need for that 05:24:52 i wonder whether it would be advisable to have skip 05:45:43 -!- itsy has joined. 05:56:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:31:05 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:45:32 goin to the DMV tomorrow 06:45:33 woo 06:45:45 so excited 06:53:23 `slist 06:53:28 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:57:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:02:27 hello friends 07:06:28 Gah 07:06:44 HexChat's current color for joins is what I'm used to for quits and parts 07:07:19 fizzie: it looks like they didn't see any better solution than rebooting the server that had problems yesterday (initially with accessing the NFS mail directory, but the problem escalated quickly) 07:07:36 is HexChat the official IRC client of Hexham 07:07:45 i'd assume so 07:07:51 oerjan: Well, it is a solution, of course. 07:08:04 night all 07:08:20 "When two vehicles meet on a steep road where neither vehicle can pass, the vehicle facing downhill must yield the right-of-way by backing up until the vehicle going uphill can pass." 07:08:33 it's almost a setup to a joke 07:08:55 Also, if you're reversing, that makes you a vehicle going uphill, so the process can continue recursively 07:10:01 :O 07:10:17 Favourite traffic rules trick question for the Finnish exam (which is mostly based on asking questions about pictures): set up a straight-forward looking scenario, but put a tram behind a bush somewhere on the left, so that a small corner is peeking out. 07:10:39 (As an exception to the general rule, trams here have right-of-way disregarding the approach direction.) 07:10:44 hm reminds me of a norwegian comedy sketch (from a show which i vaguely recall was based on a british one), although the road there was flat afair 07:11:50 based on "Hancock's Half Hour" says no.wikipedia 07:11:54 the DMV knows physics, too 07:12:15 "The force of a 60 mph crash is not just twice as great as 30 mph crash; it's four times as great!" 07:12:30 Does the DMV know psychics? 07:12:59 Based on this manual, they did not anticipate you asking 07:16:51 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:20:27 trams are good because you know they aren't going to suddenly swerve and run you over 07:21:42 which makes it even more dangerous when they do anyway hth 07:22:19 TRAAAAAMS 07:22:59 does it cost a lot of money to get a driving license in finland or no 07:23:49 I can't imagine most public services costing a lot of money in finland 07:23:59 doesn't it cost a lot of time at least 07:24:05 "so i heard" 07:24:14 finland is just one big cult 07:25:23 is #esoteric a cult 07:25:44 who is the cult leader of #esoteric 07:25:58 well, i follow zzo38 07:26:16 but i wouldn't call him a cult leader, really 07:26:29 who says cults have leaders? 07:26:32 just an inspiration 07:26:35 the leader? pssh. 07:27:08 we're an ineffective cult because our leaders are so lazy 07:27:31 perhaps #esoteric is a cocult 07:27:36 (not to be confused with the occult) 07:27:45 there's an initial object but no terminal object 07:27:46 TINC 07:28:17 -!- oerjan has set topic: The cocult (not to be confused with the occult) channel | <3 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 07:28:32 #esoteric on irc.dahl.net is presumably the occult channel? 07:28:37 presumably. 07:30:59 Never make a U-turn: [...] On a one-way street. 07:32:51 good advice 07:34:48 Eh. 07:34:54 Depends on which way you start. 07:35:39 Yes, if you are driving in the wrong direction on a one way street, you are required to immediately pull to the side of the road, stop, panic, and turn around when safe. 07:38:39 -!- mtve- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:41:49 For instruction on backing up, there are separate bullet points for "your kids" and "other children". 07:43:17 Well, presumably each person is responsible for backing up their own kids. 07:43:35 You shouldn't even have read access to other children. 07:44:14 Evidently you are required to have executable access to directories of other children. 07:46:27 'If another drive does not him his or her lights: [...] Do not try to "get back" at the other driver by keeping your bright lights on. If you do, both of you may be blinded.' --Gandhi 07:46:36 *dim 07:49:01 haha 07:50:05 kmc: have you a driver's license? in the great state of CA, even? 07:50:28 what about a train license 07:50:49 Gracenotes: no 07:51:27 Confused people are also exemplified as "Tourists, often at complicated intersections" and "Drivers who are looking for a house number or who slow down for no apparent reason" 07:52:02 Compare this to merely distracted people, who may include: Delivery persons, Construction workers, Children (who often run into the street without looking), etc. 07:52:19 Really, why are children so stupid? 07:52:27 tourists enter, one wrist leaves 07:52:51 very strange folks 07:56:15 should i go to finland again 07:56:46 yes 07:56:52 "If you drive for sight-seeing purposes to the scene of a fire, collision, or other disaster, you may be arrested." 07:58:08 "Horse-drawn vehicles and riders of horses or other animals are entitled to share the road with motor vehicles. It is a traffic offense to scare horses or stampede livestock." 08:00:26 Hm. Interesting: cyclists are required to carry identification 08:03:58 More fun information: you may not use your cellphone, even hands-free, "to engage in distracting conversations" 08:05:09 You will all be tested on this. 08:05:49 do the medical marijuana test next 08:06:44 what's the condition that can be easily claimed to 'pass' such a test, due I think to lack of easy falsifiability? 08:06:44 "do you want some marijuana? y/n" 08:09:33 Apparently, there is such a thing. Which, I understand, is actually pretty common. 08:10:58 ? 08:15:40 "Do not shoot firearms on a highway or at traffic signs." 08:16:00 haha 08:16:16 stop signs out in the desert have a lot of shotgun holes in them 08:16:30 There is also such a thing as "illegally tinted safety glasses" 08:16:49 And, not to mention, "Vehicles taking part in a funeral procession have the right-of-way" 08:17:17 or is it the rite-of-way? 08:17:48 The driving schools are, I think, relatively expensive. 08:18:02 Yet I think most go that way. 08:18:05 in Finland? 08:18:08 Yes. 08:18:20 But if you have an accommodating parent or some such, it would technically be possible for them to acquire a permit to teach someone. 08:19:19 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 08:20:29 The Goatse School of Driving -- so (colloquially) named because of their logo: http://www.haaganautokoulu.fi/wp-content/themes/thematic/img/header.jpg -- seems to charge a total of 1630 euros, of which the major part (1190 eur) is 17 * 50 minutes of driving instruction. 08:21:03 (But these are of course all private places.) 08:21:19 nice logo 08:22:51 Many high schools (incl. mine) have a special deal with a driving school such that there's a course you can sign up to, which includes the theory part (possibly you even got one course credit point for it), and probably you get a discount for the driving lessons. 08:23:03 (I did that thing.) 08:28:18 hm in norway you don't need a permit to teach someone to drive, as long as you're not paid. but there are experience requirements and stuff. 08:29:29 and it's considered unreasonably expensive to get enough training solely from professionals. 08:30:06 oerjan: Apparently the union of driving schools has a strong lobbying presence here, and there's been some controversy about it. 08:30:19 hmm the topic needs higher codepoints 08:30:23 -!- shachaf has set topic: The cocult (not to be confused with the occult) channel | ♥ | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 08:31:03 E.g. claims that they've made the private-person teaching needlessly difficult/expensive, and funded bogus "research" on how professional driving education improves safety, and so on. 08:31:52 ah. 08:32:11 Also it seems that they've changed the requirements for that teaching permit in 2013 to be even more difficult, and the process of getting one now costs like 3000 eur, which doesn't make it any cheaper than just going to a regular school. 08:32:17 Or so I gather from fi.wikipedia. 08:32:44 Funny, I didn't really know it was such a controversial topic; I've thought "well, that's very expensive, but I guess that's the way it is" once or twice and that's it. 08:33:19 I was able to get 20 hours worth of driving school free in high school in the United States. 08:33:37 Due to some program or another, though; I forget the details. 08:33:43 And it was a private school. 08:34:03 I think we just got the theory part for free in the program I mentioned. Then again, we don't really pay for the schools, so... 08:34:36 The instructor occasionally asked me to drive to shopping centers, where he left me standing in the car for up to 5 minutes to pick up food or prescriptions etc... 08:35:06 So it was not exactly entirely professional. 08:41:45 oh btw i made ais523's concurrency construct in haskell maybe some others would like to see it http://lpaste.net/90816 08:41:54 (not tested, as usual) 08:42:58 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 08:43:35 -!- shachaf has joined. 08:43:40 -!- shachaf has quit (Changing host). 08:43:40 -!- shachaf has joined. 08:59:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:00:40 -!- carado has joined. 09:30:03 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:34:39 -!- mtve has joined. 09:45:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:01:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:11:04 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 10:15:39 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 10:15:54 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 10:15:54 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 10:16:01 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:16:05 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 10:16:06 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 10:17:48 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 10:18:14 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:18:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:18:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:18:17 -!- Fiora has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:18:51 -!- yiyus has joined. 10:27:45 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:31:31 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:43:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:46:27 -!- Fiora_ has changed nick to Fiora. 11:04:31 http://low.fi/~viznut/loremipsum-google.txt 11:11:50 "CIA let KSM design vacuum cleaner in detention to 'keep him sane'" 11:14:28 hi elliott 11:15:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:26:27 all this pen stuff in the backlog is reminding me of http://artisanalpencilsharpening.com 11:28:00 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:28:17 It's reminding me of Pen Island. 11:28:32 (They are very passionate about pens too.) 12:24:38 -!- olsner_ has joined. 12:24:54 "hi" 12:41:07 fizzie: Their website is full of gems. 12:41:42 Many of our customers prefer to take on two or even three types of wood for one project. 12:42:10 Q: Can I provide my own wood? A: In most cases we can handle your wood. We do require all shipments to be clean, free of parasites and pass all standard customs inspections. 12:45:53 Yeah. 12:45:54 "Whether all you want is a simple skinny white pen (it's our best seller!) or something wrapped in leather or little pink bows, we've done it all. Even pens dipped in chocolate!" 13:01:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:01:42 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:02:46 -!- olsner_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:28:02 http://news.err.ee/politics/0233b688-b116-44c3-98ca-89a4057acad8 https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine/blob/master/ivote-server/hes/vote_analyzer.py 13:56:00 -!- variable has joined. 14:18:47 ion: I saw that. Note also how their code is extremely not documented 14:19:09 This somehow has to be an elaborate prank... 14:21:12 the estonian prime-minister is pulling a hoax 14:34:48 There is a "House of Elliott" brand necklace for sale here at the post office. 14:35:11 buy it 14:35:44 It costs like 32.90. 14:37:56 32 isn't much moneys for an elliott 14:38:03 I took a picture of it, that's like the next best thing. 14:38:22 Now I must shopping. 14:58:12 Wait, what was that? The Post Office sells necklaces? 15:03:46 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:04:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:05:23 We're co cult? What does that mean 15:10:42 itsy: They have one shelf of "miscellaneous crap". 15:11:52 -!- jsvine has joined. 15:13:04 Good morning, #esoteric 15:13:25 Hi 15:13:48 Anything exciting lately in the world of esolangs? 15:14:54 I don't know, I haven't been online much recently 15:15:22 Yeah, I had to check out for a couple of weeks to focus on another project; now trying to catch up :) 15:16:56 elliott: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130712-house_of_elliott.jpg http://www.houseofelliott.fi/?lang=en 15:17:00 (Sorry, that's not at all "exciting -- in the world of esolangs".) 15:18:23 Which one is elliott? http://www.houseofelliott.fi/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/etu_2013_11.jpg 15:18:40 http://www.elliottsurveyors.co.uk/background.html 15:19:15 ion: I think the one with the hat. 15:21:30 http://heh.fi/tmp/elliott-is.png 15:22:19 Notethe location stated in my link 15:22:51 Taneb: nice 15:31:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:33:27 Anyone have thoughts on http://torso.me/chicken? 15:33:45 jsvine: chicken chicken. 15:35:23 (Oh and a reminder to anyone who doesn't know/remember: I'm a WSJ reporter working on a potential story on esoteric programming languages. Feel free to DM me, or email me at jsvine@gmail.com if you'd like to chat privately.) 15:36:30 chicken 15:50:21 -!- matthiaskrgr has left. 15:51:26 chicken is a run of the mill 10 instruction stack language that achieves humor and silly-ness by denoting instruction i as i chicken's followed by a newline (AFAICT) 15:54:38 I know that oerjan's thoughts on chicken are: "lovely" 15:54:53 I just realized that the word "florin" strongly suggests the color pink to me. 15:54:55 (The topic was broached on channel 2013-07-02.) 15:55:50 chicken is like a poultrified whitespace 15:55:57 I don't know how funny the language was, but the interpreter was nice. 15:56:33 Is there some word for some shade of pink that begins with the "flor" sound? 15:57:33 I guess fuchsia begins with "f". 15:58:34 So do "fire engine red" and "fluorescent" anything. I think it's fair to say that fuchsia is the effiest color. 15:59:21 Perhaps youconnectit to floral 15:59:45 That sounds likely, except that flowers aren't necessarily pink. 16:02:17 I've always associated the musical note F with pink as well. 16:02:27 And then G is green. I guess the reason for that seems pretty obvious. 16:03:00 fcolor of 25 images says the color of "florin" is #756156. 16:03:28 (Most of those images were of coins, and then quite a few of Florin Court, the building that's the fictional Whitehaven Mansions where Hercule Poirot lives in the TV series.) 16:03:37 C is like a dark blue. "Cobalt", I guess? D is also green. E is a lighter blue. 16:03:48 A is yellow, and B, I dunno. Black? 16:15:37 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 16:22:24 jsvine: Did you write that report? 16:24:34 zzo38: Which report? 16:25:09 jsvine: The one about esoteric programming. 16:25:39 zzo38: Ah, no, got pulled off into another project. Now back and continuing to research. 16:26:17 tromp__: For my unlearned sake, could you explain "run of the mill 10 instruction stack language"? 16:26:28 If you have any questions I will try to answer them (or possibly, others can try, too). 16:29:50 Thanks. I'm mostly trying to figure out the narrative. I'd really like to get "the human factor", e.g., someone trying to write a complex program in Piet, or some esolang-programming competition, or someone trying to puzzle through the complexities of creating a new esolang... 16:30:44 Let me see if I have something... 16:31:19 You can try looking at some of Chris Pressey's stuff, possibly 16:31:44 If you are wondering about creating a new esolang, that is 16:32:31 jsvine: not sure what this is about, but here are some languages I found nice esolangs.org/wiki/User:AnotherTest/Notable_Language 16:32:58 Ah, thanks. I've been in touch a bit with Chris, but I'll pressey him again for more details 16:34:00 AnotherTest: Thanks! I like that list. 16:34:23 Yes, look at INTERCAL. 16:34:38 jsvine: see the list of instructions at http://torso.me/chicken-spec 16:35:27 tromp__: Ah, helpful! 16:35:30 it's the usual variety of stack manipulation instructions; arithmetic, load/store, input, output 16:37:56 A few esolangs (although not the ones in that list) are uncomputable, such as Gravity and TwoDucks, as well as some others. 16:38:51 When inventing esolangs, we don't normally care about the things that you should normally care about when inventing a programming language. 16:39:09 you could also write each of brainf*ck's 8 instructions with 1 to 8 chickens followed by newline, and presto, you have a new language "chickenf*ck" 16:39:42 zzo38: right and that's part of what I find so interesting about esolangs 16:40:53 jsvine: Yes, I do too. 16:41:10 -!- sacje has joined. 16:45:41 -!- jsvine1 has joined. 16:46:06 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 16:46:44 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:46:49 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 16:48:39 -!- conehead has joined. 16:49:39 Did you look at the list of ideas? 16:50:58 -!- jsvine has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:07 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:07 -!- itsy has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:07 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:07 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:07 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:20 Which list of ideas? 16:53:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:55:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:55:50 Ook! is an example of a language that's just a thin syntax veneer layer over Brainfuck 16:56:48 What's shocking is that such languages make it into articles like http://net.tutsplus.com/articles/top-10-most-bizarre-programming-languages/ 17:00:05 Right. I think I'll want to note that a whole bunch of the silly esolangs all belong to a single family, and that the innovation there is in humor rather than computer science. 17:01:16 -!- hogeyui__ has joined. 17:02:12 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:02:12 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 17:02:27 Yes, that is it. 17:02:41 However , the list of ideas is: http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas 17:04:24 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:04:25 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:04:40 zzo38: Oh, that's great. I'm hopping out to lunch in a second, but will read this when I get back. 17:04:52 OK 17:05:34 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:06:32 all this pen stuff in the backlog is reminding me of http://artisanalpencilsharpening.com <-- is that supposed to have an innocuous splitup as well, because i cannot see it. 17:06:56 -!- jsvine1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:07:26 well it has "anal" in it. but I think it's rather higher-concept than that. 17:08:29 O KAY 17:09:23 part of that modern mainstream junk theory that art _should_ be disturbing i assume. 17:09:59 sorry, *postmodern 17:10:53 wat 17:12:04 angkor. 17:12:42 -!- Bike has joined. 17:33:08 oerjan: "artisanal" is a word 17:35:53 fancy 17:37:10 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:39:55 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:45:07 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:46:02 -!- conehead has joined. 17:46:11 What ever happened to the Esoteric Awards? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_Awards 17:46:42 too much brainfuck equivalents? 17:46:45 nah, I don't know 17:46:51 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:46:53 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:50:38 @wn artis 17:50:40 No match for "artis". 17:56:19 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:57:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:01:30 -!- jsvine has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:08:18 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:10:26 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 18:32:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:33:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:43:50 http://24.media.tumblr.com/94d571eb3fe44125c6475b11e752da81/tumblr_mifzfvSJkG1qiyf4wo1_1280.jpg 18:51:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:57:31 @wn artsd 18:57:32 *** "artsd" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 18:57:32 ArtsD 18:57:32 n 1: an honorary arts degree [syn: {Doctor of Arts}, {ArtsD}] 18:58:21 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:58:26 haha. 19:06:49 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:08:02 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 19:10:55 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:12:28 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:21:58 oerjan: hi how is the featured language selection process going 19:23:34 um nonexistently 19:23:55 is danish on the list 19:24:02 nope 19:24:34 `run cp bin/{empty,l}list 19:24:43 No output. 19:24:49 -!- jsvine has joined. 19:24:50 `run echo danish >> bin/llist 19:24:52 oerjan: but I assigned you to it! 19:24:53 No output. 19:24:56 :'( 19:25:05 elliott: I assign you to fix 183. 19:27:58 -!- itsy has joined. 19:29:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 19:47:18 12:46 -!- #rust You must have a registered nick (+r) to talk on this channel (#rust) 19:47:24 kmc: :'( 19:48:20 do i have to register on random irc things now 19:48:30 it's a cabal 19:48:35 "art is anal pencil sharpenings" hth 19:48:52 Oh, it was jsut temporary. 19:49:00 also, have you noticed, there are very few men's belts at most stores with size <32 19:49:16 despite the fact that I think most men have waist size <32 19:49:38 It seems the prior of 'needing a belt' shifts the distribution substantially 19:50:15 My main belt (getting a bit old now) actually had an extra hole put into it for me 19:50:36 Yes, I recently bought another main belt, so to speak. 19:50:39 main is not usually a belt 19:51:12 And I would say that tall and skinny people need belts more but I am perhaps biased 19:51:26 -!- Fiora_ has changed nick to Fiora. 19:51:35 yeah i have put holes in belts on several occasions 19:51:38 shachaf: what else is main? a function? pssh 19:51:40 -!- Taneb has left. 19:51:56 don't be ridiculous 19:52:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:52:55 belt :: IO () 19:54:33 Now to get ice cream and also beer 19:55:26 Next think you'll be telling me there's a belt called _start 19:55:31 thing, even! 19:58:24 Gracenotes: my guess is that maybe there's few small ones because the small ones sell first 19:58:49 Ooh, good thinking 19:58:54 it's just like with jeans, like, last time I remember shopping for them there were so many more of the larger sizes, like 7-9+ 19:59:02 and the smaller sizes had much smaller stacks 20:00:30 -!- jsvine has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:01:06 -!- jsvine has joined. 20:13:23 but there would be smaller stacks, probably 20:13:33 I think one of the belt selections I saw had labelled stacks! 20:13:46 anywho, to catch bus thing 20:15:55 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:30:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:58:10 -!- jsvine has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:06:34 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:07:42 I would HIGHLY recommend the humble weekly sale this time. It includes Avernum, one of my favorite game series of all time, also one of the first series I ever played. 21:07:54 The windows only installments work fine under wine for me. 21:28:15 -!- jsvine has joined. 22:25:37 -!- itsy has left. 22:26:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:37:27 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:37:31 Wow, been ages since I seen a game with a color depth option. It also says that 32 bits is "for newer PCs". 22:37:55 Wait what, this game was released in 2009? Heh 22:41:18 Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep has a 16-bit/32-bit color depth option, and that's pretty recent, I think 22:41:22 bizarrely enough... it's on the PSP. 22:42:11 -!- jsvine has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:43:48 Fiora, well the game I'm looking at is a Spiderweb Software RPG. They don't follow conventions when it comes to this stuff. Avernum 4 (released in 2006 on PC) has a old style blue background installer for example. 22:44:26 Fiora, anyway I'm surprised a console/handheld game has graphics options at all 22:44:49 yeah, it's a very bizarre exception 22:44:56 What need is there? They can know exactly how it will behave, unlike a PC where there are thousands of configurations. 22:45:07 it also has a CPU speed option, too 22:45:09 If not hundred of thousands 22:45:13 like, you can pick between the stock 200mhz and the battery-eating 333mhz 22:45:20 Heh 22:45:51 My phone runs faster than that unless it is at the lowest frequency 22:46:01 the PSP's like, 10 years old now though XD 22:46:29 Oh? I thought it was more like 5-6 22:46:49 Um... let me see 22:47:00 oh, it was released in japan december 2004 22:47:04 so um... 8.5 years? 22:47:21 Also I have a quad core S3. IIRC it have steps of 100 from 200 MHz to 1.4 GHz with a few odd steps of 150 near the top or some such 22:47:25 Huh 22:48:02 No it is steps of 100 22:49:10 There is also an overclocking step of 1704 MHz listed in the ROM setting thingy. (I'm using PACman which is a mix of CM, Paranoid and AKOP, though I believe this section is from AKOP) 22:57:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:01:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:01:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:35:08 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:50:35 kmc: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~devdatta/papers/alice-in-warningland.pdf 23:52:20 heh, what of it 23:55:38 just thought it might interest you. it's empirical data on how many people click through security warnings. 23:57:32 is it "all of them" 23:58:05 nope, more like a third or a quarter. 23:58:17 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:58:27 those are like the really big THIS IS EVIL MALWARE warnings, right? 23:58:58 yeah 23:59:11 specifically mostly browsers' "yo you're getting phished dumbass" warnings 23:59:19 THIS WARNING IS EVIL. CLICK THROUGH IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE 2013-07-13: 00:12:24 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 00:15:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:16:13 PSP can be connected to a TV screen 00:30:48 the paper proving szemeredi's theorem is six pages long. i don't fucking believe this. 00:32:28 oh, wait, this is just the fuckin proceeding 00:33:27 `slist 00:33:32 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:33:51 Sgeo_: When are you going to `olist? 00:33:58 You can't leave us at a cliffhanger like this! 00:35:39 the real paper, well, that has a flowchart explaining it T_T 00:44:24 I still haven't figured out what slist and olist are 00:44:24 homestuck update, order of the stick update 00:44:24 olist is Order of the Stick updates. 00:44:25 oh. whatevs. 00:44:25 get a regularly scheduled comic, hippies 00:44:26 http://hananomono.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/photo-2.jpg those were dark days, before tex 00:44:26 `smlist (411) 00:44:26 smlist (411): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 00:44:26 "Don't like what I am not interested in"? something along those lines 00:44:27 Bike: yes 00:45:40 Bike: i can't tell whether they wrote "formulas" or "formulae" or "formulæ" with a pen 00:45:40 i gotta know these things :'( 00:51:16 no shachaf 00:51:17 you dont 00:51:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:52:01 mnoqy you just don't understand me 01:05:05 -!- Bike has joined. 01:05:27 shachaf: it's turing's phd, you could probably figure out what soon enough. 01:35:37 I still haven't figured out what slist and olist are 01:35:49 it's a very stupid and very Sgeo story 01:36:02 slist is a homestuck update ping 01:36:42 i would have thought the story would be more shachaf. 01:37:08 wow thanks Bike 01:37:48 what? you're, like, the premier mover and shaker in the thriving list industry 01:39:20 yes but i am underinformed on the shachaf element 01:40:03 all i know is one minute shachaf was fighting a bitter war to get his name off the list and the next he was spearheading the implementation of the new, slick, automated multilist system 01:40:09 `list 01:40:11 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 01:40:30 i love fgrep 02:00:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:05:12 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:07:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:23:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:24 -!- noooodl has joined. 02:41:34 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:50:39 -!- noooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:28:11 What is your ideas relating to philosophy of mathematics? 03:28:41 "them's some crazy shit, alright" 03:29:20 My own belief is that mathematics is the real reality, not universe and physical object and stuff like that. 03:29:37 what does being a real reality entail 03:29:40 My own belief is that my own belief is the real reality. 03:29:55 But I'm starting to think my own belief is biased. 03:29:56 my own belief is that zzo38's belief is the real reality 03:31:28 Bike: O, now you need "metareality" in order to describe that, and then you have to describe that by "metaphilosophy" (which is still philosophy), and then... well, you cannot do that! That is what "God" is! 03:31:50 am i god 03:31:57 well fuck, that clears everything up 03:32:14 If metaphilosophy is still philosophy, don't you get a paradox? 03:33:36 philosophy-in-philosophy 03:33:38 zzo38: hmm, can i have some zzo38 wisdom 03:34:33 shachaf: I don't know. 03:35:19 Philosophy seems to be full of paradoxes anyways; that is why you make up things in order to try to resolve the paradox. 03:35:39 metamasturbation 03:35:47 Hmm. That's pretty good zzo38 wisdom. 03:35:56 what a weird time to coincidentally be talking about philosophy elsewhere 03:36:41 What elsewhere do you talk about philosophy? 03:37:20 Bike: Maybe you should quote zzo38. 03:37:21 a different irc channel. 03:37:55 not metaphysics, though. 03:37:58 imo, 2 old 03:38:45 zzo38: You should get a 7-character nick. 03:39:27 I already have a 7-character nick in my account (although it isn't currently active). 03:39:53 What is it? 03:40:43 It is "zzo38___" (I also have "zzo38__" and "zzo38_") 03:41:09 Which one of those isn't a character? 03:41:15 Is it the first _? 03:41:56 def __zzo38__(self): pass 03:42:37 shachaf: No, the one that isn't a character is the quotation marks and everything outside of them. 03:42:56 > length "zzo38___" 03:42:57 8 03:43:39 "zzo38__" is 7-characters though! 03:43:45 I have all four! 03:43:49 that is true. 03:43:56 i think zzo wins this round, shachaf. 03:44:30 Bike: How many rounds are there? 03:44:41 8 03:45:04 that was round 4. zzo is ahead by one, as one round was a draw. 03:53:34 Max Tegmark has made up "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" and "Computable Universe Hypothesis". I think that the CUH is no good. 03:54:18 no good? 03:56:35 Yes, it is no good. It doesn't have to computable. 03:57:35 What makes you say that? 03:58:05 It doesn't even have to have a single solution, or even any solution at all, or it might have multiple solutions. 03:58:40 what 04:00:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:38:25 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:46:16 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:55:17 It's not obvious to me that the MUH and modal realism are not effectively the same thing. 04:56:13 I have a belief similar to modal realism, and I think mine is more factual and less nebulous: 04:56:42 "There is no particular reason to believe that any possible world is any more or less real than any other." 04:57:07 Well, that's not quite true. I think a simpler world could be considered "more real" than a more complicated one on the grounds that it has a higher probability. 04:58:42 does it now 04:59:38 totes 05:01:56 how 05:06:19 How what? 05:06:55 is simpler more probable 05:07:07 Occam's razor, I guess. 05:07:42 Essentially, the idea that even if you don't know anything about A, B, and C, you have to give "A and B and C" a lower probability estimate than "A". 05:09:04 Why? 05:11:29 Well, if you gave them both the same probability estimate, then, to be consistent, you'd have to give "B and C" a probability estimate of 1, or "A" a probability estimate of 0. 05:11:43 Both of which are undesirable, since you don't know what A, B, and C are. 05:12:06 But what's this have to do with universes? 05:12:16 Presumably picking a universe entails picking B or ¬B anyway. 05:37:37 Maybe you can pick both, somehow. 05:41:37 -!- sacje has joined. 05:53:10 Bike: yeah, good point. 05:53:37 Imagine, though, that if A is true, then B and C are both meaningful, whereas if A is false, then B and C are meaningless, whereas D is meaningful. 05:54:27 and? 05:54:35 If we assume that A, B, C, and D are all just as likely to be true as false, then "~A and D" and "~A and ~D" are more likely than "A and B and C" and "A and ~B and ~C" and so on. 05:55:22 that's a huge assumption. especially given that by hypothesis they're not independent. 05:56:01 besides, what do probabilities even mean here? God rolling dice to see what universes exist? 05:56:17 zzo38: Did you read _Mathematics Made Difficult_? 05:56:27 zzo38: I think you would be good at several of the exercises. 05:56:41 shachaf: I did not read. 05:57:07 zzo38: You should read it! It's great. 05:57:37 It also has a bibliography, which Taneb would surely appreciate. 05:59:42 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 06:01:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:02:23 -!- Bike has joined. 06:15:59 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 06:27:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:37:00 -!- Wntrvnm has joined. 06:37:15 -!- darkf has joined. 06:38:02 And, since Nisstyre is in here, I'm gonna take that as a, "Yes." :P 06:38:15 hm, works for me 06:38:19 I wanted to make a new esolang 06:38:33 I am too lazy to work it out though 06:42:05 `relcome 06:42:12 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:43:06 sounds eccentric. I love it! 06:44:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:51:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:53:08 Is LoL or DotA 2 easier for newbies? 06:55:20 clearly LoL; how is DotA 2 even a laugh 07:08:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:16:02 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:22:55 @tell Taneb "art is anal pencil sharpenings" hth <-- tdnh, that was the obvious one. 07:22:56 Consider it noted. 07:23:40 not sure if either is a good use of your time, though 07:23:48 LoL is an anti-use of time maybe 07:43:34 -!- carado has joined. 08:16:26 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:17:49 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:33:06 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 08:49:29 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:49:48 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:01:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:33:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:48:37 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:49:39 -!- Koen__ has joined. 09:49:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:12:47 -!- Yonkie has joined. 10:22:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:07:47 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 11:44:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:00:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:00:34 Hello. 12:15:15 hi 13:25:17 can i be off the list Phantom_Hoover? i only want pings for pbf. 14:06:59 -!- Wntrvnm has left ("-"). 15:09:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:11:52 -!- conehead has joined. 15:39:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:48:00 -!- Bike has joined. 16:02:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:03:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:38:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:45:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:46:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 16:55:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:58:12 *chirp* 16:59:45 Hi oerjan 17:12:34 -!- darkf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:12:39 hi oerjan 17:14:04 hi 17:15:25 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:15:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Client Quit). 17:19:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 17:23:43 Gracenotes, "good use of time"? 17:24:14 They're both games, unless one or the other or both aren't actually fun, I don't see how they can be bad uses of time 17:24:35 eek daystar 17:25:18 * oerjan sics a puritan on Sgeo_ 17:26:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:28:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:33:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:58:47 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:06:39 well, you might increase your skill in the game, necessitating your decrease in other things 18:07:05 like your sense of empathy, or intolerance for toxicity in communities 18:07:07 you never know! 18:15:40 * oerjan sics a non-zero sum game theoretician on Gracenotes 18:16:39 `quote video game theory 18:16:45 424) Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. Nash failed to create a "video game theory" 18:22:26 way to drop the ball, nash. 18:37:21 oerjan: it might not be zero-sum, but the sum might not have massive margins either! 18:39:59 not as massive as those other sums. omai. 18:43:44 this sum is provably at most A(G_64, G_64), although honestly we suspect it's less than 15 hth 18:44:56 hm there should be some sort of competition to pose the question whose answer has the largest known bounds 18:45:00 er, difference between bounds 18:47:38 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 18:47:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:56:17 Kind of disappointed that the Planetside 2 launcher links to a Wikia 18:57:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:57:35 Gracenotes, are both communities really that bad? 18:57:37 can i be off the list Phantom_Hoover? i only want pings for pbf. 18:57:39 what 18:58:05 oh you mean 18:58:08 `list ? 18:58:14 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 18:58:30 that's your own fault for running `list in the first place 19:11:54 -!- AnotherTest1 has left. 19:26:33 "my point is you need to get it out of your head that you can make code (especially web apps) pefectly secure against code injection attacks" 19:28:15 while that's kind of dumb, I do think focusing on making things "perfectly secure" is rarely worthwhile 19:31:07 securer 19:31:19 type systems make your code "perfectly secure" against memory corruption.... except for bugs in the typechecker, codegen, runtime system, explicitly unsafe code, unsafe libraries, kernel, processor, &c. 19:31:33 having all that stuff in your trusted base is still a huge improvement against having all that stuff *plus* your application in the trusted base 19:31:46 especially because core system stuff gets reused a lot 19:32:16 Servo segfaults a lot, at present 19:32:17 :/ 19:33:01 because of compiler bugs? 19:33:03 or unsafe code? 19:37:38 mostly the latter 19:38:10 we're interfacing to a bunch of C libraries, e.g. SpiderMonkey for JS 19:38:12 imo who builds a language for a single application and makes it insufficient to express that application without going beyond the language 19:38:23 haha 19:39:17 well you could write a JS JIT in Rust, it would just be a huge project 19:39:37 Bless me, father, for I have sinned. 19:39:38 and as we discussed earlier, the memory safety benefits are perhaps not that great 19:39:41 hi Gregor 19:39:45 Hi kmc. 19:39:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Gregor. 19:39:56 blessed 19:40:03 :) 19:40:07 elliott: I've installed the Kindle app on a Nook. 19:40:09 There are ways to make programs secure if you don't overcomplicate it; I have done so (I think; if you find any bugs please notify me). 19:40:18 I'm fairly certain that there's a special place in hell for people who do that. 19:43:03 Gregor: I didn't know it is compatible. But, I suppose if it is, then of course it is possible to do such thing. 19:43:17 It is, it works great. 19:46:40 I don't think the torrent I'm downloading has peers, oh it does 19:47:10 There's... one peer 19:47:53 Sgeo_: iz okay. LoL is well-known for being not great, which is partly a consequence of some of the properties of the game itself 19:47:55 Unpopular games shouldn't be distributed through BitTorrent 19:48:12 Gracenotes, LoL or LoL's community is well-known for being not great? 19:48:14 F2P being the main one, long-running sessions being another 19:48:32 Are DotA 2 sessions longer or shorter than LoL sessions? 19:49:04 It's a reasonably deep game by itself, but my understanding is that a match's outcome may have been decided, essentially, even 20-30 minutes before the win condition is reached. 19:49:21 Also because it's a team game, there's no prudent resignation like in Go or Starcraft. 19:50:01 I can't say much about DotA 2, but also my understanding is that it has some more desirable properties in the metagame. 19:51:26 It is still *a* community, and one with good corners and bad corners. 19:51:32 (in the case of LoL) 19:51:58 though, yeah, it's probably not a good thing when pro players think nothing of DDOSing opponents. 19:52:34 (and, as this was a few years ago, get subsequently as hellbanned as you can get, hopefully deterring that from happening nowadays... hopefully) 19:52:59 no shortage of drama, which is a good (?) thing 19:53:52 Why do so many games seem so horrible with SLI? 19:56:00 Phantom_Hoover: remove me from your mailing list immediately. i know my rights! 19:56:24 it's not sgeo's. it's the people's list 19:56:55 who brought sgeo into this? 20:04:22 http://forum.notebookreview.com/ideapad-essential/718852-y500-sli-valve-source-game-engine-stuttering-fix.html 20:05:01 What's SLI? 20:05:23 Using two or more nVidia graphics cards together to... I don't know how it works 20:05:34 Crossfire is the ATI equiv 20:07:00 it used to stand for "Scan-Line Interleave" meaning one card does even-numbered lines and one does odd-numbered lines :) 20:07:03 that's not how it works anymore 20:14:05 "Talking to someone I know who works in Nvidia, the problem with SLI on Source games lies not on the Nvidia driver but the Source engine. Valve has to fix it." 20:14:08 hrm 20:14:32 I have non-Source games with the same issue, doubt they're just going to get fixed when Valve fixes Source 20:16:06 are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ 20:17:57 Want to be 20:18:14 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:23:31 `addquote are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ Want to be 20:23:35 1072) are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ Want to be 20:41:49 What are the most unusual donaim specific programming languages? 20:44:00 define unusual 20:44:35 s/donaim/domain/ 20:44:43 quintopia: I don't really know. 20:45:05 zzo38: are you familiar with the game "cyvasse" 20:45:26 quintopia: No. 20:45:33 I don't know if some of the things at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages might count. 20:46:41 * oerjan is reminded of bancstar 20:48:00 Wikipedia says "cyvasse" is a board game, but not anything else. 20:52:19 I know of various domain specific programming languages, but I don't know what would be the most unusual ones. 20:54:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 20:57:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:57:34 http://gameofcyvasse.com/ 20:57:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:02:27 Some things about DSL are found at http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DomainSpecificLanguage and http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LittleLanguage 21:06:56 hm, I realized what Daft Punk's Get Lucky reminds me of. The musical Grease. At least until the voice modulating bits. 21:07:55 Such things are mentioned such as dc, AWK, SQL, TeX. I happen to think these are all pretty good for what they are doing. 21:07:58 ...i don't see how it could remind you of any part of grease 21:08:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:10:04 maybe less brass, but similar guitar riffs, chord sequences, lyrical content. 21:10:15 You may then even consider PostScript, vi, regular expressions, C preprocessor, sendmail, nroff, and possibly even MML and FurryScript. Maybe EXPLOR counts too, and maybe a few other things in esolang wiki (please specify, if you know?). 21:10:40 also the hook "We've come too far", very much like the title song 21:10:48 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:06 I'm not sure exactly of the music geneology to invoke, but both are vaguely disco-ish. 21:12:18 Perhaps make a list of DSL and of how unusual they are, as well as other thing such as the computation class, etc 21:27:37 The first paragraph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart 21:39:55 "SLI will shut off when you use windowed mode, even borderless windowed mode will shutoff SLI." 21:39:57 fuck 21:43:43 "No, it works in windowed mode. You may or may not lose performance depending on the game. 21:43:43 " 21:43:47 Now I'm confused 21:47:14 What programming languages have list variables but no scalar variables? 21:47:44 LISP or Fortran, maybe? 21:48:30 wut 21:48:53 Mission accomplished 21:49:07 oh no i've been missioned 21:51:50 Python has a partial example: It has strings, which act like lists of characters, but no characters: A character is just a string with 1 character. 21:53:26 This Portal 2 user-made map has non-euclidean geometry (besides Portals I mean) 21:53:50 Also it's not really used to confuse the player, just ... to aid in something 21:53:56 C is a partial example: it has integers, which act like sequences of bits, but no bits: a bit is just an integer with one bit 21:54:50 You're in a room, with beach outside, walk outside of it and the beach was just painted on posters outside the room. But inside, the beach looks and has parallex like real 3d 21:55:10 C has bitfields, doesn't it? 21:55:45 i'm being silly 22:09:03 Sgeo_: I mean variables, not types of values, though. 22:10:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:10:21 I don't know that C mandates any particular representation of bitfields though. 22:10:56 As I understand it specifying a certain number of bits only dictates the set of valid values the variable in the struct may take on. 22:10:58 Can the latest versions of GHC support making classes of classes of classes, including class families? 22:11:02 * variable looks at pikhq_ 22:11:28 Of course, any decent compiler would just do the obvious thing. 22:39:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:46:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:48:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:54:47 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 22:58:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:01:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:22:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:31:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:33:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:43:12 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:48:40 If I have overlapping words in a "Fwords table" such as "hello" and "lost" and then I want to pack "whellolosticks" for example, let's say I have a cost for each entry in the table too, what is an algorithm to replace sequences of characters with the references so that it lower the encoded space? (The cost of a reference is fixed and is always 2.) 2013-07-14: 00:21:26 `run python 00:21:51 `ls 00:21:53 bi \ bin \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ paste \ pref \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom 00:21:57 Python 2.7 (r27:82500, Oct 13 2010, 20:26:16) \ [GCC 4.4.4] on linux2 \ Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. \ >>> 00:23:00 `run echo "print 'hello'[0][0][0][0][0][0]" | python - 00:23:02 h 00:25:53 Changing hash values affects the order in which keys are retrieved from a dict. Although Python has never made guarantees about this ordering (and it typically varies between 32-bit and 64-bit builds), enough real-world code implicitly relies on this non-guaranteed behavior that the randomization is disabled by default. 00:25:59 * Sgeo_ facepalms 00:26:12 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 00:28:07 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:29:20 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:51:12 Writing real-world code to implicitly depend on a pseudorandom ordering is definitely an impressive skill 00:51:43 -!- fert_ has joined. 00:52:14 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 01:23:03 -!- fert_ has quit. 01:50:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:00:25 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 02:10:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:12:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 02:29:34 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:56:49 -!- Yonkie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:54 -!- Yonkie has joined. 03:28:38 -!- Bike has joined. 03:43:15 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:43:32 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:00:54 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:17:05 ion, fizzie: what do you think of mölkky 04:55:16 Hmm. 04:55:23 I easily defeated the computer in Worms: Armageddon 04:55:29 I might be better at it than I remember 05:01:49 hmm indeed 05:17:50 I have watched a TV show where they made up some new three player chess variant, where some cells are square and some are a triangular tesselation, where coordinates are in thirds, and there are new kind of pieces (the serpent, old woman, king's cousin, golf cart, transporter pad, time machine, and I don't know what else); however, I don't know much about it. Do you know if there are actual rules? 05:18:58 http://www.amazon.com/Stonerware-Pot-Leaf-Chess-Set/dp/B002UL69DE 05:19:00 saw this in a shop today 05:19:22 that is absurd 05:19:28 what sort of shop are we talking here 05:19:34 Dude, who's move is it again? The centuries old game of Kings and Queens enters the "stoner" age. Try to wrap your head around this classic game of strategy where you and your opponent do battle with only one goal in mind, to capture each others king. Keep in mind, it will take all of the braincells you have left to smoke your opponent under the table! 05:24:57 hi kmc 05:25:02 how's your makefile 05:25:16 very good thanks 05:25:46 mnoqy: just an ordinary shop........in san francisco 06:06:01 chess can easily go on for a very long while if you have no clue what you're doing 06:06:46 even if you remember the threefold repeat rule, you could be there til the sun collapses 06:06:52 I expect 06:07:04 What's a game that if you don;t know what you're doing, it goes by quickly? 06:07:08 I guess timed levels 06:07:24 Ok, so what's a midpoint between "At your own pace" and "The clock is running"? 06:07:35 Two extremes, I want the golden mean 06:07:42 is this a song lyric (the worst song ever) 06:07:59 This is not, the worst song in the world, no 06:09:43 hi 06:39:16 I think there are three possibilities what some recording device will do if recording a TV signal including copy protection signals in it: [A] Ignore the copy protection and record it anyways. [B] Cancel the recording and display an error message. [C] Pause the recording (and turn on/off some indicator light), and resume once the copy protection is no longer present. 06:39:41 I have seen DVD recorders do [B], although I think more useful and what I think it ought to do, is to offer the user a choice between [A] and [C]. 06:43:21 (Another option which might sometimes be useful is that if [C] is selected, set the minimum time before a new index mark is recorded, and allow this number to be infinite if you don't want it to record an index mark.) 06:49:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:53:27 Sgeo_: tic-tac-toe 06:53:44 goes by pretty quickly usually 06:53:58 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:56:43 Gracenotes: That is because there aren't many moves. 07:01:30 even if you remember the threefold repeat rule, you could be there til the sun collapses 07:01:36 argh 07:01:40 even if you remember the threefold repeat rule, you could be there til the sun collapses <-- um there's also a 50-moves without capture or pawn movement rule hth 07:03:39 oerjan: I think that's an option 07:03:53 not a requirement, and not in all rulesets 07:12:18 Threefold repetition is also an "option" in the sense that a player has to claim it explicitly 07:12:25 -!- Yonkie has quit. 07:15:03 yes 07:15:13 Yes, those rules just allow the active player to claim a draw, I think. It doesn't require anyone to do anything. 07:15:27 that is the sense I meant :D 07:16:11 And of course you can select whatever rules you want but the FIDE rules do have the strict 50-move rule 07:16:16 (As well as the three-move) 07:17:44 I have an idea for a game. You go around the board like Monopoly, except it's 100,000,000 squares. Players start on opposite corners, flip coins to either move or not move. First player to catch the other wins. 07:17:55 (you move one square in one turn) 07:18:07 Let's say, clockwise. 07:18:16 -!- carado has joined. 07:24:00 i think the sun collapses thing would apply to that game 07:25:47 okay, 10 squares 07:25:52 or wait, what is the expected time for a bounded random walk 07:26:03 that's essentially what that is, anyway 07:26:32 random walks in one and two dimensions end up where they started in expectation. 07:26:44 variance grows over time, though, I believe. 07:27:03 yes, the question is whether it's exponentially slow or not 07:28:17 `frink 100000000^2 s -> year 07:28:29 3.1688764640840182682e+8 07:29:12 so with one move per second and if it's just _square time, you can do it before the sun collapses. barely :P 07:29:23 *_square_ 07:30:09 just don't use much more than 10 seconds per move hth 07:32:36 ah indeed it is, with a sqrt(2/pi) factor. 07:34:36 \lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{E(|S_n|)}{\sqrt n}= \sqrt{\frac 2{\pi}}. 08:09:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:13:31 -!- Deewiant has quit (Quit: Viivan loppu.). 08:19:59 -!- intosh has joined. 08:33:56 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:53:13 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:53:36 shachaf: Not much. I know it but haven’t played it. 08:54:00 ion: I played it! It was fun. 09:00:39 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:23:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 10:24:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:27:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:58:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:25:24 -!- glogbackup has joined. 11:27:54 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:30:19 -!- glogbackup has joined. 11:33:55 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:49:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:51:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:26:46 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 13:30:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:31:22 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:47:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:07:45 -!- atehwa_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:07:47 dO YOU SUDDENLY REALISE You have caps lock turned on? 14:48:03 -!- atehwa has joined. 15:04:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:04:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:06:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:09:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:11:32 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 15:14:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:15:22 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:19:09 -!- heroux has joined. 15:25:35 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:28:32 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:39:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:43:40 -!- Bike_ has joined. 15:47:58 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:55:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:59:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:01:30 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:11:02 -!- constant has changed nick to const. 16:41:11 `olist 900 16:41:13 olist 900: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 16:42:14 -!- conehead has joined. 16:46:04 Yup, just noticed 16:46:09 Thanks 16:46:14 Also, hi Sgeo 16:48:36 hi 16:56:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:06:30 oh no I am starting a work tomorrow 17:06:32 what do I do 17:06:49 get high as hell 17:06:54 when 17:11:44 on the job 17:18:04 Arriving few hours late on the first day shows them you're not afraid of them. (Disclaimer: bad advice.) 17:23:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:26:27 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 17:28:46 I want to show that I am afraid of them? 17:29:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:30:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:49:44 -!- sacje has joined. 17:52:51 Gracenotes: Yes, they need to establish dominance. 17:56:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:07:14 -!- const has changed nick to variable. 18:17:49 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:18:48 I suppose I should wear a dog collar on my first day 18:19:03 Not go anywhere unless I am led on my leash 18:19:13 That seems like the start of a healthy business relationship 18:19:34 I'm not quite sure that would be the message that would get across 18:20:43 oh, this is more confusing than I thought 18:24:24 The thing to do is to just go, unless for some reason you are unable. 18:32:45 Sgeo_: Thanks! 18:32:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:34:35 shachaf, yw! Especially for that thing that I didn't actually do! 18:36:44 -!- Decent_One has joined. 18:37:26 `rwelcome Decent_One 18:37:29 ​Decent_One: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:40:04 dO YOU SUDDENLY REALISE You have caps lock turned on? <-- my old laptop had a bug that caused it to behave as if it did (or sometimes as if the control key was permanently pressed), and it could only be undone in certain windows (fortunately the putty window was one) 18:41:55 Sgeo_: Fine, no thanks for telling me about `olist. 18:47:43 pregnancyTest :: IO (Maybe Bool) 18:48:18 hi 18:52:37 -!- Decent_One has quit. 18:57:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:59:49 Gracenotes: I know someone who wears a dog collar to their job at Google... 19:00:01 Huh. Someone's sent an "I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn" email -- with proper linkedin.com links, it seems -- into the email address of one of our courses (named after the course code). 19:00:13 Suppose it could be just an unthinking "to all contacts" thing. 19:00:15 seems reasonable 19:00:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:00:37 kmc: spikes, by any chance? 19:00:49 also, should I get a LinkedIn? 19:01:05 yeah LinkedIn has some misfeature where it will scrape your address book and email everyone you know 19:01:27 Gracenotes: it's a minor irritation most of the time but I guess it can help you get a job 19:01:34 Gracenotes: don't remember if spikes or not 19:02:08 -!- Bike has joined. 19:02:32 Most people I know who wear collars occasionally seem to prefer the spikey variety. 19:03:17 well, in public, that is 19:03:24 should I get a job? 19:03:37 don't you have one 19:03:48 well, yes 19:05:12 oerjan: that is a strange bug 19:05:48 i don't have a Caps Lock key normally but it exists briefly while switching keyboard layouts, so if I press Caps Lock during that interval it's stuck on 19:07:56 I have a situation like that. 19:08:20 lrwxrwxrwx 1 shachaf shachaf 16 Feb 23 2012 bin/DISABLE-CAPSLOCK -> disable-capslock 19:08:42 clever 19:09:07 and what does that script run 19:09:12 Is it just me, or did the CIA seem to get its hand on this pdf? http://courses.engr.illinois.edu/cs421/sp2012/project/turner-implementation.pdf 19:09:50 kmc: A bit of Python I got from who-knows-where. 19:09:59 pie thon 19:10:06 #!/usr/bin/env python␤from ctypes import *␤X11 = cdll.LoadLibrary("libX11.so.6")␤display = X11.XOpenDisplay(None)␤X11.XkbLockModifiers(display, c_uint(0x0100), c_uint(2), c_uint(0))␤X11.XCloseDisplay(display) 19:10:12 Gracenotes: first page looks cut off to me 19:10:15 wow 19:10:25 I would expect there's a cryptically named standard X binary to do that 19:10:30 Probably. 19:10:32 but I approve of ctypes 19:12:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:13:28 elliott: well, this is how chrome renders it. http://i.imgur.com/N2yKfAP.png 19:14:32 elliott: Lol 19:14:34 I mean 19:14:36 Gracenotes: Lol 19:15:27 http://sprunge.us/DGXA ah, academic spam; what's not to love. 19:15:32 Seems that bit is meant to be blacked out 19:15:38 Although you can still copy-paste the text from underneath 19:16:15 in evince, it just renders as a black box, but the text is visible if you select it 19:17:12 I can't say why it's meant to be blacked out 19:17:20 *see why 19:17:27 Selecting it doesn't make it visible in evince for me 19:17:42 It seems like a fault of the OCR program 19:18:48 FreeFull: http://i.imgur.com/tm6vWCw.png 19:20:30 My highlight isn't red with white text =P 19:21:09 Well, it does look like OCR. 19:38:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:39:31 Can somebody tell me what would be idiomatic Finnish for "Why the hell am I doing this?" 19:41:53 Going to attempt to fix join/part coloring 19:41:57 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:42:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:43:01 Grah 19:43:45 -!- Sgeow has joined. 19:44:03 -!- Sgeow has left. 19:44:09 ick 19:44:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:44:45 Taneb: perkele hth 19:44:55 ty 19:46:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:46:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 19:47:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:49:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 19:49:19 Taneb: protip, all swearing complaints translate to finnish as "perkele" hth 19:49:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:50:23 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:50:46 a couple more and i'll ban him 19:51:13 `quote turing test 19:51:15 371) Will anyone be irritated if I tend to disconnect and reconnect a lot? [...] we _almost_ have an established policy that bots will be banned it they do that. which means we might have to administer a turing test to sgeo, and that could get ugly. 19:51:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:51:36 -!- Sgeow has joined. 19:51:42 a couple more and i'll establish a policy that we don't need a turing test hth 19:51:42 -!- Sgeow has left. 19:51:51 Sgeo: FIX IT ALREADY 19:51:53 Sorry 19:52:03 I can live with this theme for now 19:52:43 I guess I could have relocated the server list for the duration 19:55:00 (btw, that was for my ongoing project of a cosplay of SATW's Finland) 19:56:24 i thought that was ages ago 19:56:41 I didn't actually complete it on time 19:56:42 have you got a special lion yet 19:56:48 I guess you could say... 19:56:52 it was unfinished 19:59:50 I may end up disconnecting and reconnecting once around midnight 20:00:06 unacceptable. you must now stay here forever. 20:00:21 elliott, do you have any blue ribbon 20:00:35 no 20:00:50 Okay 20:00:56 Do you know where I can get some blue ribbon 20:01:14 don't do it 20:01:26 you'll regret it 20:03:08 This is important to me 20:06:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:13:56 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:16:44 http://youtu.be/0f_ec37PXNQ 20:20:53 http://youtubedoubler.com/98zb 20:21:58 ion: wtf is that 20:22:11 Indeed 20:22:52 this kid is disturbed 20:22:55 adorable, but disturbed 20:22:57 maybe its a joke 20:29:47 ... 20:29:51 :/ 20:30:38 That was one of the creepiest things I have ever seen 20:36:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:39:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:44:16 -!- atehwa has joined. 20:49:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:59:36 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:18:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:21:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:28:25 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:59:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 22:15:12 TURING TEST EXTRA CREDIT: CONVINCE THE EXAMINER THAT HE'S A COMPUTER. 22:15:56 yes 22:23:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:25:40 -!- Bike has joined. 22:25:54 -!- intosh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:32:08 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:33:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:33:58 -!- Bike has joined. 22:34:40 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:43:01 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 23:03:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:04:38 -!- Bike has joined. 23:14:31 zzo38, old joke 23:14:54 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:17:05 -!- conehead has joined. 23:28:44 Yes, probably it is old. It is how I found it. 23:30:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:32:17 -!- Bike has joined. 23:36:21 -!- conehead_ has joined. 23:36:48 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:37:15 -!- conehead_ has changed nick to conehead. 23:54:15 http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/photos/large/mr-burbujas.jpg 23:55:49 that sign really fixes your makefile, doesn't it 23:56:47 The laundromat for LSD users? 23:57:52 i was thinking salvia actually 23:58:13 imo it's pretty cool how you can see a sign and think of a drug 23:58:37 kmc: should i use that 23:59:02 the mural was painted over due to vandalism :/ 23:59:06 now they just have a super creepy logo 23:59:22 can't find a good picture tho 23:59:37 * ion is watching grass grow and/or importing 5M rows into PostgreSQL. 23:59:39 85,8MB 0:13:34 [ 135kB/s] [==============> ] 35% ETA 0:24:43 23:59:44 also google image searching "mr burbujas" finds a decent number of extremely ripped men wearing speedos 2013-07-15: 00:00:39 you can kind of see the logo here http://s3-media3.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/cxGNWxXViuddaSWubHoL6Q/o.jpg it's a washing machine with a three-toothed lamprey-like mouth, wearing a top hat 00:01:11 today I found a "bike shop" that turned out to be more of a bike-themed hipster-shit shop 00:01:28 I buy hipster fæcal matter all the time. 00:01:32 kmc: you were supposed to reply to my question 00:01:38 i can't complete my pun otherwise 00:02:00 shachaf: salvia? imo no 00:02:17 kmc: sage advice 00:02:20 ;_; 00:02:42 > cycle "HA" 00:02:43 "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... 00:02:49 imo smoke other sage, it will smell good 00:04:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:06:03 -!- Bike has joined. 00:06:05 kmc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonana 00:07:26 ah cool 00:07:26 limo(na)+ 00:10:45 have you had it? 00:10:57 I haven’t. 00:11:12 does your IRC client automatically insert smart quotes? how does it work? 00:11:18 do you use ``LaTeX quotes''? 00:11:20 ion hasn't it. 00:12:07 Nope. It wouldn’t work very well without the client detecting the language i’m typing perfectly, parsing the language perfectly and applying grammar rules perfectly. I just type the “”. 00:12:24 and how do you do that 00:12:42 altgr-shift-[, ] with the US International (AltGr dead keys) layout. 00:12:49 ok 00:13:04 ``ironic LaTeX quotes'' are the new thing for 2013 00:13:45 ski has been using ``ironic LaTeX quotes'' before it was cool. 00:13:58 kmc: I've been doing those for years :( 00:14:05 yeah 00:14:19 does this make me a trendsetter 00:14:23 abs. 00:14:58 ion: altgr-shift-, and altgr-shift-space? 00:15:13 (“detecting the language” also includes programming languages in addition to English and Finnish.) 00:15:15 Oh, altgr-shift-[ and altgr-shift-]. 00:15:37 there's a band named Δ which is also known as Alt-J because that's how you type it on a Mac 00:15:49 ion: How do you type ’ etc.? 00:16:01 “hi mnoqy” 00:16:07 shachaf: ‘’: altgr-9, 0 00:16:16 “hi shachaf„ 00:16:44 ‘hello mnoqy, 00:16:50 „Gutan Tag shachar“ 00:16:52 e 00:16:55 f 00:17:09 ☺hi☹ 00:17:27 "shachar" means "dawn" hth 00:17:36 ☻hi� 00:17:48 shachaf: What does shachaf mean? 00:18:04 "seagull" 00:19:21 ⎛ ⎞ 00:19:23 ⎜g’day mnoqy⎟ 00:19:24 ⎝ ⎠ 00:20:18 òh hí 00:20:22 ⎰ o ⎱ 00:20:23 ⎱ hai ⎰ 00:20:43 use the double tall integral symbol 00:20:45 tia 00:21:11 卐 Good day, gentlemen. 卍 00:21:15 ⌠ 00:21:19 ⎮ 00:21:19 ⎮ 00:21:20 ⎮ 00:21:20 ⎮ 00:21:20 ⎮ 00:21:24 ⌡ 00:21:36 v. good 00:21:56 that was the 8x as tall integral symbol 00:22:02 good codepoint imo 00:22:06 doesn't line up for me in urxvt :/ 00:22:08 Almost done. 227MB 0:36:16 [ 164kB/s] [======================================> ] 93% ETA 0:02:23 00:22:13 looks good in gedit 00:22:21 kmc: fix ur xvt hth 00:22:26 Lines up for me in gnome-terminal. 00:22:42 ⌣greetings mnoqy⌢ 00:22:53 ⌣̈ 00:23:05 ion: doesn't combine for me :'( 00:23:14 ⌢̈ 00:23:35 Does your $thing render them side by side? 00:23:40 ⎧ 00:23:43 ⎪ 00:23:48 ⎨ 00:23:50 ⎪ 00:23:52 ⎨ 00:23:53 ⎪ 00:23:57 ⎩ 00:24:13 ion: my gnome-terminal does, yes 00:24:29 Huh. Works here. 00:28:58 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:29:34 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:37:24 17:36 BIIIIKE 00:39:52 kmc: help monads in monoids are weird :'( 00:40:28 the definition is something like 00:40:41 a homomorphism t : M -> M, and two objects e, m : M 00:41:06 such that forall x: e * x = t(x) * e; m * t(t(x)) = t(x) * m 00:41:23 such that: m * e = m * t(e) = 1; m * t(m) = m * m 01:12:09 kmc: try the refrigerator hth 01:12:19 seems to be a popular place to put things 01:12:22 ? 01:12:24 batteries? 01:12:32 Oh, that was a while ago. Yes. 01:12:34 the more channels you and I have in common, the more confusing this gets 01:12:56 -!- augur has joined. 01:13:05 Well, I wouldn't want to actually make an unhelpful comment like that in-channel. 01:13:08 It might confuse people. 01:13:26 (I do know people who put batteries in the refrigerator.) 01:13:45 yeah 01:13:48 it's not uncommon 01:14:08 I remember my family used to use the frezer 01:14:15 i also know people who put important documents in the freezer, as a kind of poor man's fireproof safe 01:14:39 kmc lives with a refrigerator bandit 01:15:37 hmm, "bandit" is the wrong word 01:15:47 i mean someone who puts things into the refrigerator 01:16:13 like tortillas and empty egg shells and, uh, what were the other things 01:17:25 egg shells go into the freezer to await composting 01:19:24 SF is all about the composting. you can go to the central compost place and demand your share of the dirt created 01:19:31 except you have no cheap way of knowing whether it's full of heavy metals :/ 01:48:33 Is there a logic that supports varying degrees of "didn't-happen-ness"? 02:15:18 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:16:21 -!- augur has joined. 02:17:24 -!- augur has changed nick to augur_. 02:52:00 why do you need a center? can't you just put compost in a heap and call it good 02:52:04 assuming you have a yard, anyway 02:55:08 Why isn't Worms as popular in eSports as DotA? 02:55:11 And LoL? 02:55:22 who gives a fuck abut e sports ever 02:55:36 and do you want jerkass competition heads to find a way to make worms unsilly and boring 03:38:41 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:39:50 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:43:59 Am I seriously feeling nostalgic for a piece of crappy web search software from before I was 13? 03:44:43 yes 03:45:34 Copernicus 03:45:54 Searched via several search engines 03:46:02 And noted whether each item errored 03:46:15 Don't remember if it actually showed HTTP status codes 03:47:05 Remember showing it to a friend. Also, that friend used dial-up while I had cable 03:47:41 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:48:40 Going to disconnect and reconnect soonish 03:49:53 I actually have no idea how VPN stuff works, except that it makes me suddenly about to connect to websites that I couldn't connect to while not being connected to the VPN 03:50:38 Hmm, that particular website is registered in DNS 03:55:59 Hmm, I don 03:56:05 I don't think I actually disconnected 03:56:06 Odd 04:23:07 -!- intosh has joined. 04:27:26 I'm starting to think this embedded language I have in Haskell here has too many combinators. 04:28:02 There are... eleven combinators, an apply operator, and two other operators. 04:34:56 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 04:49:22 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:06:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:08:10 -!- Bike has joined. 05:29:08 What embedded language is that? 05:30:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:30:58 oh 05:57:26 -!- TodPunk has joined. 06:33:42 -!- Koen_ has joined. 06:35:24 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 06:51:41 i totally remember Copernicus 06:58:46 didn't he have a wooden nose 07:03:06 this is silly, I will be getting up at 6am to call an east coast thing 07:03:07 ah well 07:03:12 and then going to work not long after 07:03:36 did you remember to get high 07:04:00 I think I will have to skip that, didn't plan far enough ahead 07:04:32 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:06:09 darn 07:10:08 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:13:02 hi 07:43:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:48:43 `slist EB+GG on LOLAR 07:48:48 slist EB+GG on LOLAR: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 07:51:11 -!- Deewiant has joined. 08:23:20 Okay, I am in way too many channels 08:23:29 18 across 3 servers 08:31:58 I have 41 irssi windows open for my Freenode irssi. 08:32:07 It used to be >100, I think. 08:32:25 imo anything ≤19 don't even count 08:33:03 -!- carado has joined. 08:49:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:35:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:49:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:05:26 There are... eleven combinators, an apply operator, and two other operators. <-- you just need to discover that most of them are monoid, applicative or monad operations hth 10:13:44 didn't he have a wooden nose <-- you are probably confusing with tycho brahe hth 10:14:04 apparently copernicus had a _broken_ nose, though. 10:20:39 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:21:33 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:31:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:41:18 -!- olsner_ has joined. 10:59:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:11:08 -!- intosh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:11:57 -!- intosh has joined. 11:13:55 oh wow, they're actually calling Linux 3.11 "Linux for Workgroups"? 11:14:07 maybe it's just the rcs but I really hope so 11:17:12 [[ Still, Torvalds says that application developers are very important. They're not "real men" like kernel developers, he says, but still are "necessary" for Linux to succeed. ]] 11:22:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:47:26 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:48:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:58:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:21:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:28:43 -!- olsner_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:30:10 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:41:55 -!- itsy has joined. 13:52:34 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:54:59 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:10:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:20:45 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 14:36:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:41:30 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:33:19 fizzie: fuck that guy 16:09:59 -!- AnotherTest has left. 16:19:59 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:36:27 -!- sacje has joined. 16:41:20 I'd really rather not. 16:42:06 fair 17:00:05 wowowowowow Rust lets you put trait (≈ typeclass) constraints on the free variables of a closure, as part of the function's type 17:01:01 this is useful for (and only permitted for) traits that have special meaning to the compiler, like Copy 17:05:01 shachaf: ^ 17:06:04 help i just woke up 17:07:27 * Fiora gives shachaf a plushie 17:18:54 kmc: that is weird 17:21:34 oerjan: ah, of course. 17:24:50 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:28:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:29:44 yup 17:32:13 'morning shachaf, Fiora et al 17:34:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:34:44 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 17:36:17 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Client Quit). 17:36:42 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:39:57 -!- Frooxius has quit (Client Quit). 17:40:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:45:38 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:50:04 -!- conehead has joined. 18:01:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:07:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:31:21 kmc: you have no idea what you're info 18:34:43 kmc: hi 18:36:43 kmc, I got a webcam! 18:36:56 Huh, so lame: R7RS draft 9 has dropped the number of {foo/, foo-quotient, foo-remainder} triplets to two (floor, truncate), out of draft 6's six (ceiling, floor, truncate, round, euclidean, centered). 18:37:01 (Though maybe they've just been moved out of the "small" language.) 18:37:07 And also t-shirt transfer paper 18:37:21 Taneb: Are you going to transfer the webcam to a t-shirt?! 18:37:45 Yeah! 18:37:54 Wouldn't that be cool 18:41:04 shachaf: ? 18:41:12 Taneb: cool, what will you use it for 18:41:14 nothing, sorry 18:41:21 shachaf: a pun? 18:41:36 kmc, Homestuck cosplay immediately 18:41:36 half of a pun 18:41:44 which is the same thing as no pun at all 18:41:57 indeed 18:42:08 shachaf: did you know this above Astounding Fact about Rust? 18:42:35 It's formed by the oxidization of iron? 18:42:42 Nope. 18:42:49 Do you have an example somewhere? 18:42:52 It's accelerated by salt and water? 18:43:08 It's red? 18:44:11 already forgot where I saw it, sorry shachaf 18:45:03 i 4giv u 18:45:22 yay 18:45:35 also do you want to go to the Computer History Museum sometime? have you already been? 18:46:55 That sounds pretty cool 18:47:03 I am in if you'll pay for my transport 18:47:35 I am in with the same conditions as Taneb 18:47:50 elliott will come if you pay for my transport 18:50:18 haha 18:51:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:52:28 kmc: i have been once 18:52:38 but could possibly go again? 18:52:41 cool 18:52:45 i'll certainly go if you pay for Taneb's transport 18:52:53 have you been to http://www.museemechanique.org/ ? and would you want to go 18:53:08 "one of the world’s largest privately owned collections of mechanically operated musical instruments and antique arcade machines." 18:54:47 i have not 18:56:11 it's neat 18:56:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:56:21 and it's near the In-n-Out Burger 18:57:23 is that the kind of burger that comes out as fast as it goes in 19:01:30 haha 19:01:38 no i think that would be White Castle 19:03:34 fan in = fan out 19:06:36 -!- raineys has joined. 19:10:16 in brainfuck, does [ always test the byte at the current pointer? or does the tested pointer remain static through each iteration? 19:10:35 current pointer 19:11:06 thanks 19:13:37 I had an implementation that didn't always test the currant pointer but it kept raisin exceptions. 19:14:07 doesn't sounds like a very good implementation 19:16:22 well, my friend ana was the one who wrote that code. i just didn't want to insult ana. 19:18:32 Fiora: aren't these puns grape? 19:18:36 or would you say they're a bit dry 19:18:43 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 19:19:00 orange you glad raineys gave you the chance to make these puns? 19:21:20 oh no, not banana pun conversation 19:23:46 i'd avocado stopping right now 19:23:52 this is a berry bad idea 19:24:16 i'm whey over it 19:24:37 i grapefruit papaya lemon watermelon blackberry 19:24:53 i think shachaf did that think once before 19:24:57 *thing 19:25:10 help 19:25:41 oerjan: Did you know a monad in a group is an inner automorphism? 19:26:16 i saw your mention of monads in monoids, decided to spare my brain hth 19:26:42 oerjan: your brain has not earned sparing hth 19:27:01 who are you, god or something 19:27:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:28:00 oerjan: yes 19:30:16 * oerjan punches shachaf in the nose 19:30:33 been wanting to do that for years hth 19:30:45 aah 19:30:48 help 19:30:59 are you one of those atheists 19:31:29 oh no, there's no use punching things you don't believe exist, hth 19:31:47 shachaf doesn't exist? 19:31:50 or does he not have a nose 19:32:07 oerjan: when will you stop causing aah 19:32:18 * shachaf = pegnose pete 19:32:23 i think you may be confused. this may be better than the alternative hth 19:33:12 Fiora: no, i'm pointing out you have to believe god exists before it make sense to try to punch him hth 19:33:18 but you punched shachaf 19:33:20 *makes 19:33:27 shachaf isn't god 19:33:47 Fiora: i am sorry, he clearly answered yes hth 19:33:54 oerjan: oh, maybe that was unclear 19:34:00 oerjan: i answered yes to "something" 19:34:17 Fiora: may it be noted that it is trivial to punch someone in /the/ nose if that someone does not have a nose 19:34:31 ah. well i guess that's ok as i've wanted to punch _something_ for quite a while too. 19:34:38 (assuming another person - with a nose - is present of course) 19:36:56 AnotherTest: i am sorry, but there is nothing trivial about interpreting nonexistent "the" noun phrases. if you want to be understood, anyway. 19:37:59 oerjan: what! but the prove is analogous to the other trivial proof which - after some calculation - works out 19:40:16 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:42:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:24 -!- Bike has joined. 19:50:05 in-n-out-amorphism 20:00:47 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:04:54 -!- sacje has joined. 20:17:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:20:38 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:21:07 -!- sacje has joined. 20:24:07 A monad in a group is an inner automorphism? Yes, that seems right to me, although I don't know what "inner" is, here. 20:25:04 zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_automorphism 20:26:39 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:28:19 Yes, it would probably have to be something like that (although I didn't prove it, but it seems like it). 20:30:12 zzo38: http://math.stackexchange.com/q/443847 20:30:25 rustc is so slow :( 20:30:35 and the unit of separate compilation is pretty coarse, at least for servo 20:31:01 is rustc the compiler? 20:31:06 Yes. 20:31:15 they should have called it rustic :( 20:31:24 rust interactive compiler or something 20:31:34 "Rustic" is the adjective for idiomatic Rust code, like "Pythonic" or whatever 20:31:37 does it use like llvm as the backend or does it have its own thing? 20:31:45 llvm 20:31:51 What's the equivalent for Haskell? 20:31:54 Haskellish? 20:31:58 haskellicious 20:32:23 kmc++ 20:32:48 Taneb: "trivial" hth 20:35:37 itym "elegant" 20:53:34 i,i channel your inner automorphism 21:03:03 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:03:29 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:04:55 -!- heroux has joined. 21:28:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:29:34 Taneb: Mathematically correct. 21:36:08 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:37:29 -!- kmc has set topic: 6, 21, 107, 47176870, 7.4 × 10^36534 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 21:38:37 -!- Bike has joined. 21:40:08 what is that 21:40:25 busy beaver? 21:40:35 yep 21:41:27 maximum number of steps for a halting 2-symbol TM with 2, 3, ... states 21:41:35 the last two are lower bounds only 21:41:52 http://mnxmnkmnd.tumblr.com/post/55543165531/ <--- bike, this is kind of wow @_@ 21:42:09 I know, right. 21:42:21 "There's a theory that humans evolved flatter muzzles due to constantly palming their faces in response to stupid theories." 21:42:36 oh gosh 21:43:13 best theory 21:44:13 Bike: sadly that is lamarckianism, and thus clearly nonsense hth 21:44:56 -!- atehwa has joined. 21:45:26 oh, randomly reminded, i had a dream about a store that was probably kmc-inspired 21:45:46 it was a glass store, all they had was glass and glass accessories, such as glass tubes and "weed hangers" 21:46:08 they had a display with glass tubes that were bad because the government had put cameras in them 21:46:53 Bike, isn't that quote satire 21:47:05 i mean "even though this history occurred before cars existed" c'mon 21:47:09 the thing i quoted is, the thing in the link apparently is not 21:47:31 Bike: c.c 21:47:32 c.c.c 21:47:32 c.c 21:47:35 especially since it goes on with "What are the fundamental properties of sex-typed toys that make them differentially interesting to girls versus boys?" 21:48:10 kmc: weed hangers looked like giant hairclips. please instruct me how to hang weed with them 21:48:38 bike I'm sorry I can't enjoy this lego set 21:48:41 it is insufficiently pink 21:48:46 woe 21:48:48 and my eyes evolved to ignore things that weren't pink enough 21:52:08 wait is the stuff about pink having a historically fluctuating link with gender false then? 21:52:40 yes, the world did not actually exist before 1950 !! 21:52:57 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:53:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:53:18 it's actually 1995 that everything started existing 21:53:24 that was only for you elliott :< 21:53:27 stop being so solipsistic! 21:53:53 it's not my fault everyone who thinks they're older has fake memories 21:53:54 he doesn't have any other options 21:54:03 can you really imagine anything before 1995?? 21:54:05 Bike_: http://i.imgur.com/esAzEkp.png I had to change my IRC window color scheme to match the expectations of evopsychiness :< 21:54:10 well no it's just oerjan said something about it being a myth 21:54:21 Fiora: lol it looks like dos 21:54:28 really? XD 21:54:36 that might've just been the thing about them switching mid-20th century though 21:54:39 that irssi is almost as beautiful as mine 21:54:52 Phantom_Hoover: (no, the thing about pink being red/manly in the past is apparently true) 21:55:40 "Yet it is males who suffer in our society. From boyhood through adulthood, the White American Male must fight his way through a litany of taunts, assumptions and grievances about his very existence. His oppression is unlike anything American women have faced." 21:55:45 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 21:55:56 bike is this parody ._. 21:56:15 no it's Fox 21:56:24 "Things are no better in college. There, young men face the perils of Title IX, the 1972 law designed to ban sex discrimination in all educational programs. 21:56:43 also whoa Fiora has #esoteric on the correct window number 21:56:56 correct? 21:56:57 take notes, people, it's meant to be window 2 21:57:14 Fiora: it's elliottic law. 21:57:22 bike could you maybe not post this 21:57:56 the correct window number for #esoteric is 11 21:58:00 well i already did 21:58:06 i can't retroactively unpost 21:58:11 or... can i.......... 21:58:43 I can't. 21:59:12 I meant like 21:59:15 not post more? I don't know 21:59:22 My windows don't have numbers. Is that wrong? 21:59:38 zzo38: No. 22:01:08 oh. well that's easy. 22:01:11 here, watch. 22:01:37 Phantom_Hoover: (no, the thing about pink being red/manly in the past is apparently true) <-- itym "disputed" hth 22:02:51 oerjan: are you addicted to hth 22:02:53 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:03:08 someone should write a program to see what oerjan's record number of consecutive lines not ending in hth is 22:03:24 take notes, people, it's meant to be window 2 <-- yay me too! 22:03:27 (in recent past) 22:04:01 shachaf: no i can stop any time hth 22:04:36 are you watching 22:12:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:19:09 -!- Bike has joined. 22:19:24 elliott: you were born in 2010. }:| 22:19:37 What do you think of your baby brother? 22:20:01 oerjan: Are you addicted to "no i can stop any time hth"? 22:28:28 `quote nephew 22:28:34 173) elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? what Heck yes I'm elliott's uncle. 22:28:48 (for those not up to scratch with all the stupid in-jokes) 22:29:07 > var $ fix(("no i can stop \"" ++).(++"\" any time hth")) 22:29:08 no i can stop "no i can stop "no i can stop "no i can stop "no i can stop "... 22:31:34 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:34:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:38:08 https://github.com/mame/quine-relay/blob/master/QR.rb @___@ 22:38:12 it's a 50-language quine 22:38:32 https://raw.github.com/mame/quine-relay/master/langs.png 22:38:47 geeez it includes BF, whitespace, verilog, and INTERCAL XD 22:39:06 And it's only six kilobytes? 22:40:22 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:40:50 I wonder if there's a name for whatever creature that ouroboros is formed from. 22:41:01 -!- Bike has joined. 22:41:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnite). 22:47:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:49:18 -!- Bike has joined. 23:08:56 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:15:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:17:59 -!- Bike has joined. 23:30:33 [[ 23:30:33 Do you really want to oppress a minority? Because Finns are a minority 23:30:34 compared to almost any other country. If you want to talk cultural 23:30:34 sensitivity, I'll join you. But my culture includes cursing. 23:30:34 ]] 23:30:40 thanks linus :| 23:30:52 um 23:31:41 yeah 23:32:24 -!- intosh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:52:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:52:28 I thought I overheard people talking about cache but it turned out they were talking about cash. 23:52:42 cash misses 23:53:35 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:53:36 i was going to make a pun about that on jul 4 but then i didn't :'( 23:56:11 I mentally pronounced "cache" as "cash-ay" before I knew how it's really pronounced and now I can't stop 23:56:30 how do you pronounce cachet 23:57:01 I don't 23:57:07 but yes the same way 2013-07-16: 00:02:52 -!- heroux has joined. 00:10:23 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:12:20 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:28:52 have you guys seen the super-quine yet 00:28:53 https://github.com/mame/quine-relay 00:30:12 oh that was you huh 00:30:44 no 00:30:47 oh 00:30:56 I have never written a working quine 00:48:02 are quotes from other channels allowed? 00:48:18 what's with the star of david in the middle of the ouroboros 00:50:48 -!- carado has joined. 00:56:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:07:00 http://pastebin.com/uMbB7its 01:08:23 thats me 01:08:27 (what is that~) 01:08:31 wow good ~ press 01:08:37 i went for shift and hit ~ too 01:08:37 help 01:08:44 how do you even do that 01:08:49 do you have a ""weird keyboard"" 01:08:49 well ~ is next to shift 01:09:00 sounds like a yes 01:09:25 does your keyboard look like http://www.goodtyping.com/teclatUKok.png 01:10:27 it's an application to a forum 01:10:48 pretty sure they're going to be let in, i like their style 01:11:39 shachaf: sure 01:12:21 elliott: ok this is double weird 01:12:24 or maybe even triple weird 01:12:32 you press shift with your right hand?? 01:13:14 no 01:13:15 `~ 01:13:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ~: not found 01:13:18 is the key to the right of shift 01:13:37 wait 01:13:43 so how does your keyboard look 01:14:20 like this? http://kb.parallels.com/Attachments/19485/Images/wireless-british.jpg 01:21:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:23:10 -!- Bike has joined. 01:23:23 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:35:04 the fact that the busy beaver sequence grows faster than any computable sequence is at once kind of obvious and totally mind-blowing 01:37:42 sequences that grow slower than any monotonically increasing sequence are weirder, imo 01:38:07 glad I could spread the fear of those 01:38:24 btw you forgot "computable" 01:38:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:39:06 you'll figure it out 01:39:12 -!- kallisti has joined. 01:39:12 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 01:39:12 -!- kallisti has joined. 01:40:03 i guess some kind of busy-beaver-inverse is an example of that? 01:40:40 f(n) = number of states needed to make a halting 2-symbol TM that runs for n steps 01:41:48 i like that inverse Ackermann function α(n) that comes up in algorithms analysis 01:42:03 yeah. the one i know f(x) = smallest kolmogorov complexity of y for all y >= x 01:42:05 which you basically assume is less than 5 for any input 01:42:13 how the hecks does inverse ackermann even come up 01:42:15 `quote largest 01:42:16 No output. 01:42:20 `quote oklo.*ac 01:42:21 54) actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge \ 75) oklopol geez what are you doing here ...i don't know :< i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things... \ 109) but yeah i'm not exactly comforta 01:42:22 i don't remember 01:42:24 `quote oklo.*ack 01:42:26 335) are there boobs you wack and squeeze around to move the mouse? [...] like those little nipples in laptop keyboards, but they'd be full-blown boobies \ 665) i think i'll just take the usual route and go do post doc research somewhere far away and never come back and become a drug lord and kill myself 01:42:28 help 01:42:29 `quote oklo.*acker 01:42:30 No output. 01:42:38 `quote oklo.*number 01:42:40 242) okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" \ 400) god created the natural numbers, the rationals were done by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan 01:42:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:42:42 What ways are there to make C Turing-complete? Perhaps making a byte have an infinite number of bits? 01:42:46 I give up 01:42:47 i mean i've heard of it obviously 01:42:53 `quote inverse 01:42:55 No output. 01:43:09 zzo38: IO on unseekable streams? 01:43:46 "This inverse appears in the time complexity of some algorithms, such as the disjoint-set data structure and Chazelle's algorithm for minimum spanning trees." hey that's actually kind of noticeably a thing 01:44:34 meanwhile, https://secunia.com/blog/372 01:45:38 "In fact, this is asymptotically optimal: Fredman and Saks showed in 1989 that \Omega(\alpha(n)) words must be accessed by any disjoint-set data structure per operation on average" nice 01:45:47 also nice, that pasted correctly 01:47:29 the alpha and the omega 01:48:19 elliott: security drama is hilarious 01:49:14 "I think VLC mediaplayer in principle is an excelent peace of software. " i don't even know what this means. what's the VLC principle 01:49:29 it's excelent peace 02:05:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:11:31 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:11:33 Guess I should use a different video player 02:12:57 mplayer 4 lyfe 02:14:50 "World's #1 text MMO / MUD" ... "Where women wear real armor" 02:15:00 Is it not possible for women to wear real armor if you can see them? 02:15:09 -!- sardig has joined. 02:15:12 wh 02:15:18 So I decided to write a cipher, see if anyone can crack it! Hints: It is all ASCII code, available via keyboard. Cipher key: (Hexadecimal) http://pastebin.com/bN7UZCGw Encrypted text: (Hexadecimal): http://pastebin.com/KuKGf7Q0 02:15:23 Paste the ASCII deciphered(hint) result. 02:15:26 http://www.projectwonderful.com/img/uploads/pics/2970-1373396333.jpg 02:15:45 Also, that image does not make me think of a MUD. An MMO maybe, but not a MUD. 02:15:59 sardig: you're that challenge person with a bunch of names right 02:16:50 Available via keyboard 02:18:22 sardig: you could ask in ##crypto too 02:19:14 I could, but yarrkov does not like it. 02:19:39 so are there any details at all as to the code here or is it just a heap of bits that you have to decode with no information about the cipher 02:20:34 No further info. 02:20:41 But if you ask, ill be able to assist you 02:21:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:21:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:21:19 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:23:05 alright i got this cipher 02:24:37 Did I ever tell you about the man who taught his asshole to talk? His whole abdomen would move up and down, you dig, farting out the words. It was unlike anything I ever heard. Bubbly, thick, stagnant sound. A sound you could smell. This man worked for the carnival, you dig? And to start with it was like a novelty ventriloquist act. After a while, the ass started talking on its own. He would go in without anything prepared... and his ass woul 02:25:09 pretty sure this message should have stayed ciphered, sardig. 02:25:40 Bike: Excusme? 02:25:55 that's the message isn't it 02:25:59 just a caesar cipher 02:26:00 Bike: That is not the cipher? 02:26:03 wow, sardig 02:26:10 that kind of challenge isn't welcome here imo 02:26:11 well obviously it's not the cipher, you pasted the cipher 02:26:14 it's the decrypted text 02:27:25 Bike: What did you exactly do? That is not the message. 02:28:03 it's just a caesar cipher, shift all the letters to the right a few places 02:28:13 i mean you could have at least gone for vignere, made it more challenging 02:28:38 Bike: Show us how you did it, because that is not the plaintext... 02:29:14 what do you mean show you it's the simplest cipher in the world 02:29:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_cipher 02:30:03 imo the simplest cipher is the identity cipher hth 02:30:10 Bike: Are you trying to troll? 02:30:25 shachaf: that's just caesar zero. 02:30:39 Bike: How could you shift it so quick? 02:30:48 ok then it's not a cipher, it's a family of ciphers!! 02:30:54 uh... it's not like i was doing it by hand... 02:31:03 Bike: Then show us what you used. 02:31:17 IRC pro move: show up in a channel and immediately accuse channel regulars of trolling 02:31:35 kmc: That is not the plaintext... 02:31:42 you're mastring/mafingre right 02:31:42 You can even check yourself. 02:31:58 how can you check? you gave no details about the cipher 02:32:03 so the plaintext could be anything at all 02:32:27 I gave 2 details about the cipher 02:32:28 And a hint 02:33:20 Bike: http://realitystudio.org/texts/naked-lunch/talking-asshole/ 02:33:25 yes 02:33:26 hey, i have a challenge 02:33:28 You got what you said from there. 02:33:34 here's the ciphertext: yxkGC3YhlRmcmr96NsKiInoDC19I5IHizprvMOeypXpX4UfH4qRsg7V3nMUfxDHXXp8FuwvtDjH7 02:33:42 here's the key: D6u5utqNryrIPCwQuAdlUe 02:33:56 shachaf: Is it an actual cipher? 02:34:04 of course it is, he said so right there 02:34:07 what makes a cipher actual 02:34:10 what is government if words have no meaning 02:34:15 and I mean, I appareciate Burroughs as much as the next guy, but it's kind of weird to just come in the channel and paste it 02:34:19 It decodes to plaintext 02:34:39 most things do 02:34:56 Bike: Your attempt at trolling is not helping. 02:35:08 why do you keep saying that 02:35:19 Bike: You are yet to show me how you did it 02:35:33 ok but 02:35:37 > map (\x -> fromEnum (toEnum x + 3) :: Char) "hello" 02:35:38 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' 02:35:38 with actual type... 02:35:40 sardig: are you mastring/mafingre, I just want to know 02:35:45 always with the type errors 02:35:58 > map (\x -> (fromEnum (toEnum x + 3)) :: Char) "hello" 02:35:59 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' 02:35:59 with actual type... 02:36:57 > map (\x -> (toEnum (fromEnum x + 3)) :: Char) "hello" 02:36:58 "khoor" 02:37:00 there we go. 02:37:09 my actual code was in python but i don't think we have a python evalbot. 02:37:15 !python print 123 02:37:17 123 02:37:28 EgoBot is underappreciated, it does tons of languages 02:37:28 wow where were you five minutes ago dude 02:37:32 !languages 02:37:35 hmmmm 02:37:36 !help languages 02:37:37 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 02:37:42 Bike: ideone does 02:37:48 isn't linguine a kind of pasta 02:38:00 yes i know ideone does, but it's so trivial i wanted it just in the channel 02:38:16 are you like actually not aware of caesar ciphers? they're perfect to teach crypto to kids 02:38:27 @google linguine language 02:38:29 http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/indepthanalysis/rexmurphy/story/2013/02/21/thenational-rexmurphy-022113.html 02:38:29 Title: CBC News - The National - Rex Murphy - On Language and Linguine 02:38:32 Bike: So where is the key inputted? 02:38:33 sweet 02:38:58 it doesn't need the key, you just put that in to misdirect. 02:39:28 > map (\x -> (toEnum (fromEnum x + 3)) :: Char) "17e4c459841029f07a1fbeb011ba7e5d5cadb75628d1514e524ec877c34ca78241589c5849981725​f89ce03f3fb273f347b21982357d43725541c936d6726677abcd143bccead76f57765168b53dc3f0​268cd9" 02:39:28 :1:128: 02:39:29 lexical error in string/character literal at character '... 02:39:46 uh 02:39:59 i don't know what you expected 02:40:59 Bike: what? 02:42:11 ok look we're obviously fucking with you, because your 'challenge' is boring and technically impossible because as shachaf implied you could use an arbitrary algorithm to have arbitrary plaintext, and playing 'guess the commonly used algorithm' is no fun. ok? 02:42:29 plus if elliott is to be believed you're dumping this randomly into channels for some reason 02:42:30 Bike: You were trolling. 02:42:34 yes 02:42:57 well i just find the names things curious that's all 02:43:00 *thing 02:43:05 would be less curious if sardig answered :P 02:43:20 sardig: Are you mafingre/mastring/etc.? 02:43:32 elliott: Who/what is that? 02:43:43 sardig: two people with the same IP as you. 02:43:50 who joined using the same web client as you to ask the same challenges as you. 02:44:07 so uh, I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt there but are you actually denying you're them. 02:44:11 I have only ever joined once as this name. 02:44:17 yes, "as this name". 02:44:20 Well, I live in a shared apartment 02:44:25 lol 02:44:27 oh, god, don't even do that. 02:44:41 Don't do what? 02:44:50 Live in a shared apartment? 02:45:07 claim your roommate came in and did something objectionable (not that this is really that objectionable anyway!) when somebody notices your IP did something objectionable. 02:45:09 ok, look, it's really really obvious that they're you. 02:45:29 like, you can just forget that. i'll forgive you if you stop insulting all our intelligence by implying you're not them. i mean seriously. 02:45:51 i mean, we've all been around the block a few times. as you know i am an accomplished troll, familiar with exciting troll tactics such as weird excuses and resetting my router to get a slightly different IP that is noticed in two seconds. 02:46:15 Bike: I knew you were trolling, you were not accomplished. 02:46:25 shit 02:46:50 sardig: have I not made it clear that you're digging yourself a pretty deep hole here. 02:46:56 like, stop. 02:47:11 look i'm sorry for being mean but seriously nobody cares about your challenge, aight 02:47:38 you know i don't actually own Naked Lunch, I do have Junkie but it's too psychotic for me to read 02:47:56 I should watch the movie sometime though. 02:48:05 of naked lunch, not junkie. i don't think there's a movie of junkie. 02:50:48 `seen Gracenotes 02:50:52 2013-07-15 07:04:00: I think I will have to skip that, didn't plan far enough ahead 02:51:05 still disappointed he didn't get high, tbh 02:51:26 who / what 02:51:31 gracenotes. 02:51:40 when 02:51:52 uh... around 7:04:00 apparently. 02:52:16 oh 02:52:32 well getting hi is the beginning of any good phone call 02:52:37 hi Bike 02:52:42 Hi 02:52:47 like, totally, man 02:53:09 Terribly mean. 02:53:41 sardig: So are you mafingre etc. or are you a different person using the same IP address joining the same channel to give the same sort of challenge? 02:54:10 I may or may not be mafingre's room-mate 02:54:15 no, look, don't. 02:54:29 sardig: Just answer the question. 02:54:59 Yes. 02:55:12 Yes what? 02:55:12 cute 02:55:24 I am mafingre 02:55:40 ok cool so what was with the whole roommate thing. I mean really. you could have just said. 02:55:40 see, there we go. 02:55:44 I was just curious. 02:56:16 Can i ask a serious question about a project I am working on though? 02:56:20 sure 02:57:20 I am creating a messaging software (secure) And thinking of using sha256; well, the only time it uses the sha hash is to send the pass for conformation, then it uses the md5 hash of the pass as the key for the encryption (AES) , the server then uses this encryption to send the iv to the client, and then they both use the md5 hash and the iv to do any other encrypting of messages 02:57:26 iv is a random long generated on server startup 02:57:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:46 why switch algos? 02:57:47 Maybe this challenge is more appropriate for ##crypto. 02:57:47 How does that sound? is it safe/secure? 02:58:10 shachaf: Currently banned there. 02:59:06 kmc: A jar? For cooking rice? 02:59:10 what did you get banned for :P 02:59:14 OK, it doesn't work very well if the person isn't even in the channel. 02:59:31 elliott: Yarrkov did not like my challenges. 02:59:46 He had a little fit. 03:00:03 He is finnish too. 03:00:16 Do you really want to oppress a minority? Because Finns are a minority 03:00:21 no shachaf don't 03:00:36 I just said he was finnish 03:00:45 he's referencing a recent internet fit 03:01:00 imo I gave linus one quote too many the first time 03:01:13 anyway i suppose using the same "iv" for channels across one server invocation could be insecure, maybe the attacker can use the similarity to break encryption, or whatever 03:01:20 Is linus on freenode? 03:01:56 (Like) Linus 03:02:03 Torvalds 03:03:05 Bike: if we wanted, we could have a unique iv per connection 03:03:52 hm, whatshisname (scheiner) had a free book on security didn't he 03:04:00 free and/or i pirated it, anyway it's gonna be better than me 03:04:11 He is the cryptography master 03:04:15 The IV isn't meant to be encrypted in the first place. 03:04:36 is that a thing? i'm just reading "intravenuous" 03:04:37 if it helps it's "AES/CBC/PKCS5Padding" (the algo we are using) 03:04:54 What you should be using is a high-level cryptography library. 03:04:58 As most junkies would 03:05:11 Hmm, or maybe you are in this case. I don't know. 03:05:17 Initialization vector 03:05:21 But you shouldn't be thinking about sha256 and md5 yourself. 03:05:40 Would you like to see my Java code? 03:05:43 No. 03:05:48 That I have implemented for the algo. 03:05:52 Ill setup a SVN 03:05:59 errrr do you know the first rule of cryptography 03:06:20 I don't especially want to help you in the first place, since you joined this channel after being banned from ##crypto, lied about who you are repeatedly, and accused people of trolling. 03:07:06 shachaf: I accused correctly. 03:07:08 Also if I help you implement cryptography you'll surely get it wrong anyway -- that's how it works -- but maybe it'd be in a less obvious way, so more people would use your code. So net harm increase. 03:07:37 Anyways back to my original question, so, yes to sha256? 03:07:40 Would it help? 03:07:45 No. 03:07:50 yeah the first rule of cryptography is don't roll your own, because you're gonna make some minor screwup and nobody's going to notice until your bank's on fire and you have to move to Guam 03:07:52 shachaf: How so? 03:07:55 sardig: you should drop the trolling accusation. 03:08:04 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o kmc. 03:08:09 elliott: He even admitted to trolling... 03:08:15 hi kmc 03:08:18 hi elliott 03:08:22 shit, there goes kmc's voice. 03:08:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 03:08:31 i felt left out 03:08:33 :o 03:08:36 kmc didn't have voice anyway 03:08:37 Bike: ummm he hasn't had voice for like weeks 03:08:43 elliott: imo voice me. 03:08:55 don't you know anything about impartiality 03:09:03 i could voice a completely random person 03:09:10 I,I impartial function 03:09:20 i think you knowing anything about impartiality makes it impossible for you to be impossible about impartiality. 03:09:26 impartial* 03:09:29 Also impossible. 03:09:33 md5 is used for 128bit key 03:09:39 Bike: do you want a voice or the opposite of a voice here. 03:09:50 i don't... what's the opposite of a voice. 03:10:22 have you ever seen The Matrix 03:10:29 like... once? 03:10:37 oh, that scene. 03:10:41 I have seen it once. 03:10:47 Thought it was hacker nonsense. 03:11:40 hm you should op me 03:11:48 i'll deop myself soon thereafter 03:12:10 i think oerjan would fire me, hth 03:12:43 fizzie did it once 03:12:45 no harm 03:13:12 who's the opposite of shachaf in here 03:13:15 (impartiality-related question) 03:13:21 hm. 03:13:40 now THERE'S a challenge 03:14:14 elliott: That is a mindless challenge 03:14:29 wow, rude 03:14:55 Hardly, just saying not much thought would be involved 03:15:04 It is not like it is a puzzle or anything 03:15:20 you know sudoku can be solved automatically? 03:15:23 like, thoughtlessly. 03:15:28 being "a puzzle" doesn't mean anything. 03:15:37 Bike: Yes, its not challenging 03:15:44 You know my challenge requires thought. 03:15:47 dude, what is thought, even, woah 03:15:50 no, i really don't 03:15:58 well, I think if you don't think figuring out who the opposite of shachaf is requires thought, then you don't know shachaf very well 03:16:10 to solve your challenge i have to figure out what algorithm you used, which is mostly something i have to figure out from your personality 03:16:14 elliott: perhaps i'm self-dual 03:16:18 `addquote <@elliott> well, I think if you don't think figuring out who the opposite of shachaf is requires thought, then you don't know shachaf very well 03:16:21 shachaf: like the magestic photon 03:16:22 1073) <@elliott> well, I think if you don't think figuring out who the opposite of shachaf is requires thought, then you don't know shachaf very well 03:16:36 btw the main thing with your challenge is that the ciphertext and key you gave don't actually add any information 03:16:42 since the algorithm can be literally anything and do literally anything with them. 03:16:53 the question is equivalent to "what number am I thinking of?" 03:16:59 elliott: 4 03:17:11 elliott: fizzie once solved one of my cipher challenges 03:17:13 it was actually probably 1073 if anything 03:17:21 well, now it's 4 03:17:25 I gave him the same info 03:17:28 well the digital root of 1073 is half of 4. 03:18:00 sardig: yes, there's a correct answer if we can guess what algorithm you used, based on what we can guess about you, and assuming you don't just lie (which, while you might not do so, is perfectly possible given the lack of constraints on the puzzle) 03:18:14 sardig: was that in another channel or something 03:18:41 and anyway, "I guessed what someone on IRC was thinking" isn't very satisfying to finish. 03:18:43 elliott: It was in ##asm 03:18:51 that seems off topic in asm... 03:19:04 well not any more off-topic than in #esoteric 03:19:04 Bike: Well, fizzie is a smart person 03:19:07 anyway not all of us are as cool as fizzie 03:19:09 unfortunately 03:19:10 can anyone decrypt this message? 8============================================D 03:19:11 :( 03:19:13 He is also finnish 03:19:18 ok well #esoteric is the opposite of topical 03:19:19 at all times 03:19:30 It is esoteric after all! Ha 03:19:35 ha indeed 03:19:38 he is a smart person but i don't know what that has to do with anything really 03:19:44 elliott: if you could insert a voice recognition joke here 03:19:55 let's just assume I made one 03:20:09 Has anyone met fizzie IRL? 03:20:10 Bike: how can fizzie do voice recognition..............when no one has voice 03:20:15 checkmate 03:20:20 therefore +v me 03:20:23 shachaf 03:20:25 Gregor has voice. 03:20:32 shachaf we need to find your opposite first. 03:20:35 to preserve the balance. 03:20:41 elliott: i guess i'm not very good at voice recognition.............................. 03:20:44 ##philosophy is trollsville 03:20:51 did you ask ##philosophy too 03:21:03 telling us about all these channels you spammed isn't really endearing. 03:21:07 Bike: Do you know things about boolean groups? 03:21:08 actually it is 03:21:15 Bike: I.e. groups where every element is its own inverse. 03:21:20 different sense of "endearing" 03:21:24 shachaf: not very many things :( 03:21:36 is there one besides GF(2) 03:21:37 Bike: xor is a good example!! 03:22:34 Are there any other good examples? 03:22:52 anyway it means e.g. that a+b=c <==> a=b+c 03:22:57 and that the group is commutative 03:23:00 and things 03:23:15 isn't there only one group of order two 03:23:37 ? 03:23:45 The elements are of order (at most) 2, not the group. 03:23:49 oh 03:26:18 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:32:36 kmc: it's great to be on top 03:33:03 kmc: i decrypted it and it's a kitten 03:33:11 aww. 03:33:19 not a binary encoding of a kitten, an actual kitten 03:33:21 help 03:33:40 wow 03:33:44 a christmas miracle 03:34:18 can't handle a kitten right now :'( 03:34:21 should i encrypt it 03:34:59 elliott can I have op too 03:35:08 are you going to ban me :( 03:35:15 how about we just op everybody simultaneously 03:35:22 Fiora: greedy 03:35:22 and whoever's left in the channel last wins 03:35:27 Fiora: do you even have anything to do with it 03:35:40 the @ looks cool! 03:35:46 ok, granted. 03:35:49 ＠Fiora 03:35:55 managed box containing elliott 03:36:02 you and your rust...... 03:36:12 I'll let you know my box isn't managed at all 03:36:18 anyway http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/17054/group-where-every-element-is-order-2 03:36:25 also I want to be part of the cool @ club :< 03:36:35 if i'm reading this right they're all whatevertheufuck-dimensional vector spaces, but i'm probably not reading it right 03:37:29 i think the need for the @ has vanished now anyway 03:37:31 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 03:37:34 rip cool club 03:37:40 kmc is still cool 03:37:47 wasn't the only need for it that you wanted to look cool next to kmc 03:37:50 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 03:37:51 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o kmc. 03:37:52 (you failed btw........) 03:37:53 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 03:37:56 rip cool club 03:38:16 that wasn't as good as the time I deopped shachaf in #haskell :/ 03:38:37 help 03:38:43 what time was taht 03:38:58 it was a spammer or something and we both opped and I got to it before you 03:39:01 so I saved you the effort 03:39:22 oh 03:39:31 and then the ban wasn't quite right or something so i had to reöp? 03:39:35 or did i just complain 03:39:39 you just complained 03:39:47 i can believe that 03:58:21 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:18:09 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:35:57 status: drinking scotch out of a MongoDB coffee mug 04:36:21 kmc: everyone seems to have those 04:36:28 do you 04:36:31 no 04:36:37 but i'm ""biased"" 04:37:10 oh? 04:37:16 is it because mongodb is bro-scale 04:37:50 well i worked at a competitor 04:37:56 come to think of it i didn't get any mugs, though 04:38:26 heh 04:38:35 i guess you did 04:38:40 whose mongodb mug is it 04:38:46 unclear 04:45:57 also bought an ``e-cigarette'' 04:46:07 the tip glows blue when you use it 04:48:21 oh no 04:48:42 are you going to ``e-smoke´´ it 04:48:54 already doing 04:49:16 #drugz 04:49:32 enjoy your um, digital nicotine? 04:49:48 N1C0T1N3 04:59:42 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: breathing). 05:04:38 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:05:07 whoa, dude, Wikipedia got a WYSIWYG editor? 05:12:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:27:46 I wish the DotA map were rotated a bit, so the DotA 2 logo would be % 05:30:30 How many light-hours from Earth to Pluto? 05:31:19 -!- Bike has joined. 05:36:04 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:36:33 -!- sacje has joined. 05:39:47 shachaf: it's only been coming for, like, 8 years 05:40:47 hi Gracenotes 05:40:50 how's your new job? 05:41:10 zzo38: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=distance+from+earth+to+pluto+in+light-seconds 05:41:12 hi Gracenotes 05:41:14 15,714 light seconds 05:41:28 I'm busy figuring out wtf is going on. 05:41:35 4.365 light hours 05:41:40 Gracenotes: I thought you were an expert! 05:41:45 2.1825 heavy hours 05:41:53 Gracenotes: me too :/ 05:42:11 chasing down a segfault in Servo, memory-safe language my ass 05:42:39 yay, segfaults 05:42:44 $ grep 'unsafe' $(find -name '*.rs' -o -name '*.rc') | wc -l 05:42:44 4612 05:42:49 kmc: I thought it was proved 05:42:54 it was the safestest 05:43:44 People I have evidence that the Chinese anticipated the men who stare at goats by over two centuries 05:43:50 Observe: Sheep in military formation http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Receiving_the_surrender_of_the_Yili.jpg 05:43:50 perhaps gadts will fix your segfaults 05:44:02 i took five unsafeCoerces out of lens using gadts!! 05:44:12 congratschaf 05:44:27 now i want to convert it to use Proxy 05:44:32 is there a bounty for each one 05:44:40 why not use MACHINES 05:44:43 ? 05:44:48 Proxy as in data Proxy a = Proxy 05:44:53 oh. pssh. 05:44:54 not "that weird one" 05:44:58 such a nice simple data type 05:44:59 the one true Proxy 05:45:05 kmc: Proxy is the best imo 05:45:07 what's the point of that type 05:45:21 passing a type as a parameter, more or less 05:45:24 shachaf: did you see https://github.com/mozilla/rust/issues/7671 :/ 05:45:25 humankind is not yet advanced enough to construct lens library without unsafeCoerce 05:45:35 Gracenotes: um, we did 05:45:52 well, totally without it, yeah 05:45:53 kmc: oh no 05:45:59 does servo use phantom types 05:46:03 yes 05:46:06 yay 05:46:17 shachaf: is 'a' usually higher-kinded, in Proxy? 05:46:29 the DOM has a phantom type parameter and this is used to restrict what the script task vs. the render task can do with it 05:46:31 No, it's usually :: *. 05:46:33 Proxy f -> f c -> ... 05:46:36 ah k 05:46:37 oh, right, you mentioned. 05:46:45 Gracenotes: Polykinded Proxy is coming, or something. 05:46:46 Bike: Take typeOf. 05:46:47 :t typeOf 05:46:48 Typeable a => a -> TypeRep 05:46:52 > typeOf (5 :: Int) 05:46:53 Int 05:46:56 > typeOf (undefined :: Int) 05:46:57 Int 05:47:19 It doesn't actually use its argument -- that's just used for picking a type class instance. 05:47:26 kmc: I'm a bit disappointed that just gives a single number, instead of some kind of time slider thing, or at least a graph. (At least it does accept "at YYYY-mm-dd" specifiers.) 05:47:34 But you can define typeRep :: Typeable a => Proxy a -> TypeRep 05:47:48 And then you can say typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy Int), no undefined necessary. 05:48:03 Oh, plain "distance from earth to pluto" yields a graph. 05:48:10 and it also doesn't involve any allocation. that nice. 05:48:21 Allocation? 05:48:58 well, it's a nullary constructor, the strictness analyzer might not bother setting up a closure for it 05:49:14 or somethin. 05:51:12 Anyway, I have a lot of things to learn. I have classes essentially 6-7 hours a day this week. 05:51:29 Google-classes? 05:51:45 how long does that go on? 05:52:23 maximal density, then half density, then less density 05:52:36 Gracenotes: But undefined won't get allocation either, presumably, presumably. It's just shared. Or am I wrong? 05:53:09 do you have a class on sphere packing 05:53:33 zeno's google classes 05:53:39 are they interesting? 05:53:59 shachaf: hm, perhaps. different closure types for sure, if they are both closures and not optimized out by some means 05:54:34 I'm just thinking of it as analogous to [] or Nothing or especially (), around which some optimization occurs 05:54:46 Sure. 05:54:50 kmc: I shall see! 05:55:00 I don't see a reason for allocation at any rate. 05:55:07 I mean in any case. 05:55:15 Especially not if typeOf gets inlined. :-) 05:56:51 that would be a good thing yesh 05:57:01 kmc: imo rust should get rank-2 types implemented with a jit 05:57:10 "I know you have a dictionary somewhere, ghc... give it to me..." 05:57:15 "Hales estimates that producing a complete formal proof will take around 20 years of work." christ 06:08:37 kmc: is "copy" gone yet 06:09:26 working on it 06:09:36 Bike: of what 06:09:48 I guess not. 06:10:21 proof that the usual sphere packing is the most efficient 06:15:51 kmc: rustc takes a long time to compile rustc, too :'( 06:16:02 shachaf: What is "that weird one"? 06:16:42 zzo38: Proxy? 06:16:45 @hackage pipes 06:16:45 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/pipes 06:18:36 Is there an easy way to generate rust tags? 06:18:39 ctags, I mean. 06:20:25 -!- Poolala has joined. 06:20:58 i don't know of any such way 06:21:41 A hard way? https://github.com/mozilla/rust/issues/1731 hints at a regexp thing. 06:22:12 i don't know of a hard way, either 06:22:20 I just use ack-grep 06:22:26 So do I. 06:22:35 well then 06:28:38 The enum vs. struct distinction is odd. 06:29:00 There's various code in the compiler that treats them differently even where it wouldn't really seem necessary. 06:29:49 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:29:49 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 06:29:49 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:32:51 yeah 06:33:04 there do seem to be a number of things like that 06:33:42 I was talking with sully about how traits can have type parameters, which makes them act like a poor man's MPTC, but this was only realized after the fact because there aren't enough diehard Haskellers on the Rust team :/ 06:34:07 it's not exactly like MPTC either, the last parameter is special in various ways (e.g. you can implicitly existentially quantify over it, by using the trait name as a type) 06:35:17 also static methods of a trait are implemented differently from non-static, whereas in Haskell you can put the typeclass parameter on the LHS or RHS of -> or both and (I believe) compilers mostly don't care 06:36:14 are functions expecting traits specializable to particular types? 06:36:23 making everything static, essentially 06:37:15 kmc: wherever the parameter is, you're still passing *in* a dictionary, yeah. (or inlining) 06:38:05 it's the inlining one 06:39:04 in Rust a polymorphic function is compiled separately for each instantiation, kinda like C++ templates 06:39:14 Is that officially part of the language semantics or only the implementation? 06:39:36 I guess they do a template-specialization thing, so maybe it would have to be the former... 06:40:12 -!- Poolala has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:40:50 so there's no such thing as a vtable? 06:41:59 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:42:42 Presumably that's the existential thing kmc mentioned. 06:43:37 oh, may well be. 06:44:44 there may be benefits to universal quantification and vtables, like trading off codesize and codeperformance. 06:45:02 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:46:19 although, yes, Rust is already pretty heavy on syntax for operational control... 06:49:27 * Gracenotes is now just making things up 06:51:39 yeah, when you use a trait as a type, you end up with something like a vtable 06:51:40 I think 06:51:52 shachaf: I don't know if it's officially part of semantics 06:52:42 anyway it's hard to compile polymorphic functions once, if the types at which they can be used vary in size and other properties 06:53:06 Java and Haskell and such get away with it because they enforce this uniform representation where everything is a pointer to a heap object with certain stuff 06:56:15 there's a Real World OCaml now o_O 06:59:05 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 06:59:28 oh and Jason Hickey is one of the authors! 07:01:18 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_cakes#Categorisation_as_cake_or_biscuit_for_VAT 07:04:28 -!- THEGH05T has joined. 07:04:54 YO 07:05:15 -!- THEGH05T has left. 07:05:57 hi 07:06:03 he had root 07:06:32 that was glorious 07:13:51 -!- intosh has joined. 07:23:54 * shachaf back 07:24:05 I should go to sleep, though, to get my sleep all fixed up. 07:26:38 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:26:52 perhaps I should do that 07:45:22 Hmm, enums are really treated entirely separately in the compiler. 07:45:34 That's pretty odd. 07:52:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:00:52 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:01:17 -!- EgoBot has joined. 08:21:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:40:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:41:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:51:33 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:53:17 -!- FreeFull has joined. 08:58:23 hion 08:58:55 did you figure out any new fancy type things 09:13:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:15:52 -!- carado has joined. 09:19:18 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:19:26 -!- clog has joined. 09:25:06 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:25:19 -!- carado has joined. 09:27:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:07:21 -!- tebuan has joined. 10:07:42 -!- tebuan has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"). 10:09:42 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:10:22 -!- shachaf has joined. 10:38:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:39:44 thanks linus :| <-- did anyone suggest the compromise that he can only swear in finnish twh 10:57:29 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:57:37 -!- coppro has joined. 11:01:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:01:50 I mentally pronounced "cache" as "cash-ay" before I knew how it's really pronounced and now I can't stop <-- i mentally pronounce it with a long a hth 11:02:21 I pronounce it "catchee" 11:08:15 a catchy pronunciation 11:54:46 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 11:56:37 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:00:59 -!- L8D has joined. 12:01:34 So...Does this seem at all original? It's a semi-esoteric lang inspired by ternary operators: https://github.com/L8D/tran 12:03:36 L8D: depends... at least it's not a brainfuck equivalent 12:04:28 yeah 12:05:07 on the other hand... it seems a bit like "take language X and replace some symbols" 12:05:39 for most languages (definitely not all of them) the semantic of the language are what make it special, not the syntax 12:05:49 *semantics 12:06:04 I originally started with the idea of a javascript equivalent in which could be efficiently minimized 12:07:17 @tell elliott who's the opposite of shachaf in here <-- i suggest Vorpal hth 12:07:17 Consider it noted. 12:07:21 I wanted something that would be easy and fun to write in....instead of an actually useful one 12:08:04 I'd say very original languages are usually totally different (and thus not based on) any existing language 12:08:05 I'm planning on it being a symbiotic language of js 12:08:25 okay 12:08:25 -!- Jafet has joined. 12:08:44 L8D: so maybe not the most original, but don't really care about that as long as you're having fun 12:08:53 :) 12:10:58 even though I don't do much javascript programming, I really like how it feels "vintage" 12:11:22 but still will behaive like a modern language when you need it to 12:12:48 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:14:07 @tell shachaf boolean groups are basically vector spaces over GF(2), i think. which means they're determined up to isomorphism by the cardinality of their vector basis. 12:14:07 Consider it noted. 12:14:49 @tell shachaf so, basically just xor with your chosen no. of bits, which can be transfinite. 12:14:50 Consider it noted. 12:22:51 @tell Bike if i'm reading this right they're all whatevertheufuck-dimensional vector spaces, but i'm probably not reading it right <-- you were reading it right hth 12:22:51 Consider it noted. 12:24:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:44:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:49:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:55:42 -!- boily has joined. 13:06:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:08:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:12:53 My vectors have א‎₁ bits 13:13:16 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:23:41 ~metar CYUL 13:23:41 CYUL 161300Z 02005KT 15SM FEW240 27/18 A3023 RMK CI1 AC TR SLP237 DENSITY ALT 1100FT 13:37:47 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:38:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:57:58 @oeis 6 21 107 47176870 13:58:00 Sequence not found. 13:58:18 @oeis 1 1 1 1 1 13:58:37 Plugin `oeis' failed with: <> 13:59:02 @oeis 1,1,1,1,1 13:59:04 The simplest sequence of positive numbers: the all 1's sequence.[1,1,1,1,1,1... 13:59:19 That's pretty subjective 14:01:22 what could be simpler? 14:02:58 [] 14:03:03 (meanwhile, http://www.theweathernetwork.com/alerts/high-alert/canada/quebec/montreal. it is stuffy, damp, humid, hot, steamy, sultry, and otherwise not fun outside.) 14:03:55 -!- absolutinen has joined. 14:04:28 Jafet: I think it may count as only a degenerate case. 14:07:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:12:42 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:13:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:15:24 -!- absolutinen has left ("Sto andando via"). 14:16:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:26:54 @oeis -1, 0, 1, 0, -1 14:27:04 Numerator of Bernoulli number B_n.[1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,5,0,691,0,7,0,3617,0,... 14:37:17 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:40:47 well, as infinite sequences go, 1,1,1,... is impressively trivially computed. 14:41:45 What about 0, 0, 0... 14:41:48 how is that harder 14:42:50 > iterate ([]:) [] 14:42:52 [[],[[]],[[],[]],[[],[],[]],[[],[],[],[]],[[],[],[],[],[]],[[],[],[],[],[],... 14:43:09 @oeis 0,0,0,0,0 14:43:23 Expansion of Jacobi theta function theta_3(x) = Sum_{m = -infinity..infinity... 14:43:33 see, that's hard. 14:44:20 I stand correctquenced. 14:45:19 @oeis 1, 2, 3, 4 14:45:30 The natural numbers. Also called the whole numbers, the counting numbers or ... 14:45:53 I thought I started from 1, not from 0? 14:46:15 @oeis 0, 1, 2, 3 14:46:23 Digital sum (i.e. sum of digits) of n.[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9... 14:46:30 hm... 14:54:48 @oeis 2,2,2,2,2 14:54:58 Number of distinct primes dividing n (also called omega(n)).[0,1,1,1,1,2,1,1... 14:58:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:08:10 I'm beginning to fear that there's something wrong with oeis... 15:09:57 @oeis 3 11 94 15:09:58 Sequence not found. 15:10:02 @oeis 3, 11, 94 15:10:03 Sequence not found. 15:10:07 :( 15:10:19 @oeis 1, 2, 4, 8, 15 15:10:21 Cake numbers: maximal number of pieces resulting from n planar cuts through ... 15:32:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:37:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:46:36 -!- dessos has joined. 15:55:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:00:18 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:01:44 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:05:17 @oeis 0,1,4,11,23,45,82 16:05:19 Length of shortest Golomb-like (for sums of triples) ruler with n marks.[0,1... 16:11:08 shachaf: what do you think of the fact that in Rust you can dereference a pointer with & as well as * 16:11:12 by using & on the LHS of a pattern match 16:21:43 -!- conehead has joined. 16:23:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:32:37 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:06:17 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:07:28 -!- carado has quit (*.net *.split). 17:07:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (*.net *.split). 17:07:29 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 17:07:29 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 17:07:29 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 17:07:29 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 17:10:22 -!- carado has joined. 17:10:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:10:22 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 17:10:22 -!- mtve has joined. 17:10:22 -!- ggherdov has joined. 17:10:22 -!- myndzi has joined. 17:13:29 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:24:31 -!- dessos has left. 17:26:56 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:28:20 -!- kmc_ has joined. 17:32:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:33:05 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 17:33:13 Hi 17:33:27 @oeis 6, 21, 107, 47176870, 7.4 × 10^36534 17:33:28 Sequence not found. 17:33:38 @oeis 6, 21, 107, 47176870 17:33:38 Sequence not found. 17:34:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 17:35:00 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 17:35:00 -!- yiyus_ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:35:00 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 17:35:00 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 17:35:53 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:36:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:38:05 -!- sardig has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:39:29 -!- yiyus has joined. 17:44:57 -!- sacje has joined. 17:44:59 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc. 17:48:19 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:53:54 ~metar CYUL 17:53:54 CYUL 161700Z 23008KT 15SM FEW040 30/19 A3020 RMK CU1 SLP228 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 18:02:10 * kmc reads about Pierre Trudeau 18:03:07 * boily senses a great disturbance in the Canadian force 18:07:18 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:10:20 -!- glogbackup has joined. 18:11:36 kmc, have you read enough to determine whether he exists 18:11:43 no 18:17:14 I have played a game called CthulhuMUD. It is very sophisticated, with a large number of skills, spells, professions, and areas available (but a small number of races). A local single-player open-source version (some things are not applicable and would not be implemented, of course), might be interesting to have; in such case, to also have permadeath and real ephemerides. Real ephemerides is what I would want such thing to have. 18:17:54 There are other MUDs; DoorMUD isn't quite as sophisticated though and not as interesting really. (I found all of these on X-BIT.) 18:19:26 ~duck ephemerides 18:19:26 In astronomy and celestial navigation, an ephemeris (plural: ephemerides; from the Greek word "diary", "journal") gives the positions of astronomical objects in the sky at a given time or times. 18:21:22 llvm[5]: Compiling LegalizeIntegerTypes.cpp for Release+Asserts build 18:21:38 There are software libraries, such as Swiss Ephemeris, but I don't know that that one would be suitable in this case, since as far as I can tell it does not calculate the rotation of Pluto. 18:25:26 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:26:11 It would be good to have the ephemerides for all the planets and dwarf planets; that way, even if there is nothing on those planets, since it is open-source someone will certainly add stuff onto those planets/dwarf planets including the newly discovered ones. 18:36:31 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:38:03 -!- itsy has joined. 18:38:28 do we have higher-order moons in our Solar System? like moons orbiting moons orbiting moons orbiting planets and whatnots... 18:39:30 There's an asteroid with a moon 18:40:23 boily: I don't know. Maybe it is interesting to know. 18:41:49 a quick search yields country music: http://www.amazon.com/High-Moon-Order-Betse-Ellis/dp/B00CMYX3J2 18:41:58 zzo38: ↑ is that what you had in mind? 18:42:13 kmc: You can? What does that do? 18:42:30 boily: next() on that generator please 18:43:58 ~duck high order moon 18:43:58 --- No relevant information 18:44:12 ~duck higher-order moon 18:44:13 --- No relevant information 18:44:53 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:45:03 boily: No. 18:45:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysnomia_(moon) 18:45:10 http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-04/could-moon-have-moons 18:45:20 boily: heh, I was just going to paste that 18:45:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_satellite#Satellites_of_satellites source of all knowledge 18:46:07 so rank N moons *could* exist, but they're a kind of grue. (or bleen, if you prefer.) 18:46:12 "A moon’s moon will tend to be a short-lived phenomenon." :( 18:46:26 the Universe is a sad, inconsiderate place. 18:46:53 as is Finland. 18:46:55 Well, speaking of high-order stuff 18:46:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_list_of_lists 18:47:33 elliott: well, yes, but finland has also cute TREES. 18:47:37 I'm a bit disappointed that they don't have a list of lists of lists of lists though 18:48:29 kmc: Oh. 18:48:34 That's what I get for using /last. 18:50:18 Hm. I didn't know about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disambiguation_%28disambiguation%29 18:50:39 oerjan: Aha. 18:51:10 what's /last? 18:51:21 an irssi command to grep your scrollback. 18:51:41 oeran: That's not too surprising. Self-inverse is a pretty odd property. 18:51:54 oerjan, rather. 18:56:09 @tell oerjan shachaf is saying things to you about self-inversion, oddities, and properties. 18:56:09 Consider it noted. 18:57:00 @messages-loud 18:57:01 You don't have any messages 18:57:10 Oh, wait. 18:57:37 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 19:12:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:14:29 -!- itsy has left. 19:19:49 help, I click a link to a conal blogpost on #haskell and oerjan is mentione. 19:19:51 d. 19:20:45 well, conal is isomorphic to oerjan 19:36:44 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:43:15 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:48:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:54:54 `pastequotes 19:55:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32171 19:59:14 hmm, finland can't not have its own fermented fish product 20:00:46 I don't think we have one. 20:02:06 Some people eat lutefisk (which is kind of nasty too), but even that's not particularly "Finnish", I think. 20:02:10 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:02:31 fizzie: I thought it was from Norway? 20:02:53 lutfisk seems to be shared across all the nordic countries 20:02:55 boily: I guess it mostly is, but the other nordic countries partake. 20:03:23 "While some enthusiasts[1] claim the dish has been consumed since the time of the Vikings, most[who?] believe that its origins lie in the 16th-century Netherlands.[citation needed]" quality encyclopedia 20:03:54 do we even have fermented fish products here... 20:04:06 * boily goes on a quest to find Canadian Fermented Fish 20:05:01 The "Fermented Fish" article lists preparations with origins of {Filipino, Egypt, Ancient Roman, Iceland, Korea, Inuit, Japan, Greek, Manipur India, Thailand, Norway, Swedish, Yup'ik} only. 20:05:19 inuit might apply to parts of canada 20:06:55 there's igunaq, but it's from walrus. 20:08:57 Wikipedia claims Igunaq is not explicitly walrusian. 20:09:02 (That was the Inuit example.) 20:10:20 (It does still say "other marine mammals", which makes me wonder what it's doing in the fermented fish article.) 20:10:51 another fine example of the Mysteries of the Great White North. 20:11:49 I guess it means walri (and "other marine mammals") are also fish 20:12:46 or they become fish when fermented? 20:12:52 -!- Poolala has joined. 20:12:53 that must be it. 20:13:49 but then, the Chinese call walri «海象», which are sea elephants. 20:14:34 "sea elephant" is just how they write "big fish" 20:25:29 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:32:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 20:35:54 am i justified in skipping a mailing list thread where even the first message contains the word 'bikeshedding' in the subject 20:36:28 nothing is true and everything is permitted 20:36:35 only if you can choose the colour of the skipped thread. 20:36:45 i think my mail client allows that yes 20:37:01 I think blue is a nice colour. 20:38:04 http://blue.bikeshed.com/ 20:38:26 kmc: is it about rust's awful syntax 20:38:32 kind of 20:39:00 here read this whole thread and tell me if it's worthwhile, tia https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-July/004804.html 20:39:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:39:28 you might still want to watch the thread in case entertaining pointless arguments pop up 20:39:41 well this is advocating implicit string conversions and varargs as an alternative to presumably-unsafe printf style formatting 20:39:44 this is Work for me though 20:39:46 imo tell them it's all shit 20:39:57 if I want to watch entertaining pointless arguments it'll be something fun on my own time 20:40:04 elliott: it's a macro, not varargs 20:40:05 i think 20:40:11 like I said, did not read thread 20:40:16 http://violet.bikeshed.com/ I wonder how many color options this site has? 20:40:21 but fmt!() is a macro 20:40:24 Check the source code, Fiora. 20:40:35 hi Fiora 20:40:37 wow 20:40:45 hiora! 20:40:45 before reading the thread is the best time to join the bikeshedding, "unbiased by actual information" 20:40:49 hiiiii 20:40:51 whitesmoke looks a lot like white 20:41:04 my eyes. they hurt. 20:41:04 whitesnake 20:41:19 http://mediumslateblue.bikeshed.com/ 20:41:26 that... looks more purple than blue 20:41:48 http://papayawhip.bikeshed.com good 20:41:51 looks blue ot me 20:42:02 i think you're just purple-biased 20:42:48 maybe my monitor isn't very good 20:42:49 yes i like that one elliott 20:42:57 help, I click a link to a conal blogpost on #haskell and oerjan is mentione. <-- wat 20:43:03 okay this is weird 20:43:06 http://violetred.bikeshed.com/ this is teal on firefox 20:43:10 but magenta on chrome o_O 20:43:12 oerjan: http://conal.net/blog/posts/a-handy-generalized-filter 20:43:17 yeah it's cyan for me in ff 20:43:19 yeah looks magenta to me 20:43:23 erm, cyan, yeah 20:43:29 teal. 20:43:32 use this to defeat user agent snooping :O 20:43:38 er spoofing 20:43:40 heh 20:43:40 aah, it's probably that thing where unrecognized names get interpreted as hex by filtering out non-hex digits 20:44:13 olsner: sometimes i really hate the web 20:44:18 violetred would be eed then 20:44:37 that's an impressively bad silent failure right there. 20:44:53 http://evilbrainjono.net/pages/startup-or-pokemon.py oh gosh, someone linked this at work 20:44:57 this is great XD 20:45:05 kmc: the web is great. the web feeds all. the web is like jell-o that is *way* past its best before date. 20:45:21 web is the little death that obliterates all? 20:45:24 ah yes, like the parable of jesus feeding the masses with expired jell-o 20:45:29 9 out of 10 20:45:31 B) 20:45:55 apparently Twilio is a startup :( 20:45:56 `addquote ah yes, like the parable of jesus feeding the masses with expired jell-o 20:46:00 1074) ah yes, like the parable of jesus feeding the masses with expired jell-o 20:46:09 7 out of 10 :'( 20:46:21 "Communications power business. Twilio powers communications." 20:46:34 it's like... it's like a corporate chat thing? 20:46:35 yes they're reasonably well-known 20:46:36 I think 20:46:40 no it's an API for telephone shit 20:46:50 you can make/receive calls, send/receive texts, etc 20:46:53 implement fone menus 20:46:53 oh 20:46:54 Get building in minutes with your own twilio phone number. 20:46:54 8! 20:47:01 that makes sense 20:47:15 Now I have to check the other ones. 20:47:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:47:29 Nila is the industry leader in environmentally sustainable, high-brightness LED fixtures durable enough to meet the needs of the harshest production situations. 20:47:38 i was kind of dismayed by how many of these i recognized (startups, not pokemon, back in my day there were only 151 pokemon, thanks a lot obama) 20:47:47 that reminds me that i was reading the website of this company that did nothing but make fasteners and force sensors and stuff 20:47:54 they had a few pages on stuff they'd put in mars rovers 20:47:59 I should know more pokemon >_< I kind of don't know a lot from gen 3 and 4 I think 20:48:32 Habbo I knew from encyclopedia dramatica. And they say you can't learn anything from trolls 20:48:37 the pokemon that can be named is not the true pokemon. 20:48:52 is the only true pokemon missingno.? 20:49:03 "Explore Freebase Data" freebase is a drug term right 20:49:04 Fiora: imo learn about mushrooms instead 20:49:15 we're going to grow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitocybe_nuda . they're /purple/ 20:49:37 "Freebasing is also the consumption by smoking of free base cocaine (crack cocaine) or heroin." aha 20:49:43 is there a gameboy game about mushrooms 20:49:47 imo that would increase their popularity 20:49:51 Or you could learn about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suillus_granulatus 20:49:59 O dpm 20:50:11 kmc: but but can I go on a mushroom adventure and train up my mushrooms to become the mushroom master 20:50:15 yes 20:50:26 Bike: I don't know, but there is the information to write a GameBoy game, if you want to do so. 20:50:31 Noted 20:50:37 kmc: are you a mushroom master 20:50:40 no 20:50:51 Fiora: I don't know all the pokemons either beyond first generation; they often complicate things a bit much 20:50:54 grilled mushrooms on the bbq... 20:50:58 * boily droooools...... 20:51:05 I want my fairy type pokemon *_* 20:51:18 anyone here ever grilled any fairy? 20:51:41 mushrooms from a fairy ring? 20:51:51 mushrooms form a fairy ring? 20:52:45 ?? 20:52:57 lots of kinds can grow in rings, I think 20:54:19 Fiora: a "fairy ring" what a ring of mushrooms is called 20:54:50 ohhhh 20:55:15 so called because they look p. mysterious and people thought they might be the work of fairies 20:55:44 so if fairies can't be bbqed, can they be campfired? 20:55:49 so a field of mushrooms is a special type of fairy ring? 20:55:53 since fields are a type of ring 20:55:56 shut up 20:56:01 ;_; 20:56:20 * boily slaps Bike with a fermented marine mammal 20:56:32 nooooo 20:56:41 aah, are those fairy rings? we call them witch rings here 20:57:32 * boily continues to ferment Bike *slosh* *slosh* *slosh* :D 20:57:44 "omg , you totally should try trisquel in your PC you will free proud using it ... free as in freedom" 21:02:22 Heh. There's this certain sentence that Douglas Hofstadter wrote. I remember it was along these lines: 21:02:34 "This sentence, despite containing many nonstandard words, is still perfectly possible to comprehend." 21:03:06 Some of the words were replaced with nonsense words. But I've forgotten the nonsense words and now all I remember is their intended meanings. 21:04:16 "This gubblick contains many nonslarkish English flutzpahs, but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked [sic] from context." 21:04:38 (David Moser, quoted by Douglas Hofstadter in his "Metamagical Themas" column in the January 1981 Scientific American.) 21:05:22 (It's quoted in the "glark" entry of the Jargon File / The New Hacker's Dictionary, which is where I remember it from.) 21:05:49 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:11:53 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:12:48 with all this talk about nonslarkish meals, I'm hungry. 21:12:55 -!- boily has quit (Quit: *slosh* *slosh* *slosh*). 21:12:59 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:23:46 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:38:47 I guess it means walri (and "other marine mammals") are also fish <-- i hope you know that's not an etymologically correct plural hth 21:47:00 aw boily left I can't ask what kind of mushrooms they grill 21:48:29 kmc: As a form of protest you should use one-variant enums rather than structs whenever you don't care about memory layout. 21:49:38 heh 21:49:40 clearly 21:49:58 http://blue.bikeshed.com/ <-- ooh nice 21:51:27 ah the printf bike shedding conversation is more interesting than i thought 21:51:35 they point out that format strings are good for internationalization 21:52:09 oerjan: what a silly thing to hope for 21:52:35 ok and then there are some shitty emails 21:54:31 link 21:54:33 (to the shitty ones) 21:54:38 nah 21:57:05 :( 21:58:02 shachaf: did you know rustc's name mangling is compatible with g++'s? so you can use c++filt 21:58:39 kmc: Yep. 21:58:53 I've already used c++filt when trying to read rustc-generated code. 21:59:00 The code was still confusing. 21:59:48 yes 22:01:27 Takes a while to get used to any compiler-thing's generated code. 22:03:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:04:56 yeah 22:05:07 even gcc 22:05:10 -!- Bike has joined. 22:05:24 also it takes a while to get used to e.g. the output of gcc when the input is the Linux kernel 22:10:25 they do some strange things 22:11:12 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:11:31 -!- Poolala has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:11:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:12:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 22:22:43 I think a kind of post-processor might be a useful thing to have in C, such as for making data tables in an efficient format. 22:24:05 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:27:02 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:27:40 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:36:45 -!- tromp has joined. 22:37:20 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:43:20 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:21 -!- kallisti has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:21 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:21 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:21 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:21 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:21 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:22 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:22 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:22 -!- pikhq_ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:22 -!- jsvine has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:22 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:24 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- hogeyui__ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- aloril_ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:25 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:26 -!- ssue__ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:26 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- intosh has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- nooodl_ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- mnoqy has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- epicmonkey has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:29 -!- jix_ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:30 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 22:43:30 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 22:46:49 -!- augur_ has joined. 22:47:43 -!- Bike has joined. 22:47:43 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:47:43 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:47:43 -!- `^_^v has joined. 22:47:43 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:47:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:47:43 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:47:43 -!- glogbackup has joined. 22:47:43 -!- yiyus has joined. 22:47:43 -!- kmc has joined. 22:47:43 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 22:47:43 -!- jsvine has joined. 22:47:43 -!- conehead has joined. 22:47:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:47:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:47:43 -!- coppro has joined. 22:47:43 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:47:43 -!- intosh has joined. 22:47:43 -!- kallisti has joined. 22:47:43 -!- heroux has joined. 22:47:43 -!- atehwa has joined. 22:47:43 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:47:43 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:47:43 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:47:44 -!- hogeyui__ has joined. 22:47:44 -!- Fiora has joined. 22:47:44 -!- Gregor has joined. 22:47:44 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:47:44 -!- aloril_ has joined. 22:47:44 -!- tswett has joined. 22:47:44 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:47:44 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 22:47:44 -!- ion has joined. 22:47:44 -!- ineiros has joined. 22:47:44 -!- elliott has joined. 22:47:44 -!- jconn has joined. 22:47:44 -!- ssue__ has joined. 22:47:44 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 22:47:44 -!- rodgort has joined. 22:47:44 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 22:47:44 -!- jix_ has joined. 22:47:44 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:47:44 -!- olsner has joined. 22:47:44 -!- nortti has joined. 22:47:44 -!- HackEgo has joined. 22:47:44 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +v Gregor . 22:48:12 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:48:43 -!- Vorpal has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 22:48:58 -!- Vorpal has joined. 22:54:03 -!- sacje has quit (Excess Flood). 22:54:31 -!- sacje has joined. 23:01:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:05:23 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:08:48 "If any provision of this Agreement is, or is found to be, unenforceable under applicable law, that will not affect the enforceability of the other provisions of this Agreement. " terms of service are so weird 23:13:36 is that one that weird? 23:14:42 well it's basically saying "in the event some parts of this contract can't hold" 23:15:00 almost every contract has that 23:15:12 really, i'd never seen it before. 23:15:40 I like that because it means they have no reason not to just put everything they can think of in there 23:15:54 "we'd also like your firstborn if we can get away with it but if not forget we asked" 23:16:05 yep 23:16:28 yeah when i say "weird" i don't mean like, "uncommon", so much as "wow this does not seem like something i personally would think is okay" 23:16:32 when i went skydiving I had to sign something to the effect of I would never sue them under any circumstance BUT even if I was able to sue them somehow, damages would be capped at $x 23:16:40 lol. 23:16:56 in addition to signatures they also videotaped each of us saying that we agree to x y and z 23:17:07 seriously 23:17:12 i guess they must get a lot of litiggation. 23:17:28 and they made us read a summary of a court case where somebody had sued them and lost 23:17:35 jesus 23:17:52 and affirm that we had read it 23:18:07 then I got into an airplane and jumped out of the airplane, while strapped to some other dude 23:18:20 so all in all it was a strange day 23:18:46 http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/why-kotakus-nerd-shaming-article-made-me-uncomfortable here is a url that exists and points to a real document 23:19:15 kmc, well, i hope you had fun, both in the airplane jump and in the later eight month legal case 23:19:21 Terms of Service are one of those areas not tested much in courts 23:19:44 When they are, it is usually almost always in favor of users, rather than providers 23:20:16 i think I was in more danger in the airplane going up frankly 23:22:28 alright i'm making it time for me to post sci-fi papers again: http://arxiv.org/abs/1307.2196 "Neural Dust: An Ultrasonic, Low Power Solution for Chronic Brain-Machine Interfaces" 23:22:52 basically the idea is they dump a few thousand micrometer-wide bots into your head to record your brain activity. 23:23:06 this is apparently not insane? 23:27:47 seems legit 23:28:55 Seems like a simple engineering effort. 23:29:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:29:47 well when i say "bots" i apparently mean a CMOS with an antenna stuck to it. 23:33:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:36:46 oh boy, it's based on ultrasound instead of electromagnetics. 23:37:15 -!- ggghhhujik has joined. 23:37:24 `relcome ggghhhujik 23:37:27 ​ggghhhujik: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:37:33 ultrasound for power is... new to me. 23:42:12 -!- ggghhhujik has quit. 23:42:43 -!- ggghhhujik has joined. 23:49:15 that's neat 23:51:09 the circuit is supposed to be 20 µm squared O_o 23:51:18 someone should write a CFG- or L-system-generated welcome 23:51:50 i'm no good at electronics but i am under the impression that most ICs are rather larger 23:52:38 Well it depends. 23:52:50 -!- ggghhhujik has quit. 23:52:56 I was under the impression that that was a process size once upon a time. 23:52:56 You can fit hundreds of transistors side by side in 20µm 23:53:04 If all it does is transmit something simple it could be done 23:53:19 Yeah CPU processes for instance are approaching 10nm 23:53:31 I did say "once upon a time". :P 23:54:16 Or well, I have no idea if it can actually be done or how it would actually work, but it doesn't sound completely implausible. 23:54:57 ICs are "large" mostly because they need enough surface area for bond wires (and if you're talking about the physical packages, those are huge for... physical reasons.) 23:55:11 i said i'm no good at electronics! :P 23:55:25 but yeah it's not just a transmitter, it's got to be able to figure out what neurons are doing in the middle of a brain 23:55:28 p. noisy environ 23:55:42 Bike: Not necessarily. 23:56:06 It's gotta be able to emit enough information that what the neurons are doing can be figured out. 23:56:18 i'm just echoing the paper, yo 23:56:28 This probably is only doable with the little things actually doing some amount of computation, but hey. 23:58:02 "Since the power available to the implant has a fixed upper bound (see above), the reduction of extracellular potential amplitude as the neural dust dimensions are scaled down in the presence of biological, thermal, electronic, and mechanical noise (which do not scale), causes the signal-to-noise (SNR) ratio to degrade significantly; this places heavy constraints on the CMOS front-ends for processing and extracting the signal from extremely n 2013-07-17: 00:03:19 they say the smallest one known right now is 100 µm² 00:07:49 Bike: http://bwiklund.github.io/ant-simulator/ 00:10:45 hey, remember http://lpaste.net/52660 ?? 00:11:29 these ants are kind of dumb 00:11:31 pretty trails though 00:27:07 Bike: http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/astro/seminars/archive/JS09/jcl27Feb09-1.pdf also for you~ 00:27:17 (sorry, I don't have a non-pdf link) 00:29:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:29:35 now this is my kind of paper 00:31:27 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2010-190 00:31:36 i like how they interview the guy to say how exciting life on Titan would be 00:31:52 as if anyone wouldn't be excited. well, you SHOULD be excited, says scientist 00:33:03 okay so bike likes alternative biochemistries 00:33:04 * Fiora takes notes 00:33:52 yeah when i was like 16 i read a nonfiction book on alternative biochemistries "the rest is history" 00:34:12 hmm a fiction book on alternative biochemistries sounds better imo 00:34:22 well i've read those too 00:34:33 like schild's ladder, though i guess that's more "alternative chemistries" 00:34:44 what would you call Flux? 00:34:49 alternative... bionuclearchemistries? 00:35:06 ooh ants are pretty 00:35:09 well i mean, if you take generalized chemistry to mean something with reactants and all 00:35:27 you can call schild's quarkshit as "alternative chemistry", and the same with dragon's egg or whatever? 00:36:04 i also read one of the sector general books which is pretty fun 00:36:22 "doctor, how can we cure lupus in a sapient methane cloud" 00:40:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:48:34 -!- Bike has joined. 00:53:11 what 00:53:45 it's a sci-fi book series about a giant hospital that gets weird aliens, is all. 00:56:24 -!- intosh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:07:39 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:15:25 I have a "fwords" table, with some overlapping entries (such as "hello" and "lost"). What is the algorithm to efficiently encode a string by converting things into references to fwords table? 01:16:34 so like, you have "hel2" "2st" "2: lo" in the table...? 01:19:25 Bike: Yes, such things might be in the table, and then maybe you want to encode "hel2: lost" for example... 01:21:45 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:37:23 http://coyot.es/crossing/2013/07/09/20-amazing-true-facts-about-introverts-and-extroverts/ 01:38:24 -!- kallisti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:39:27 it's called a ganglion, extroverts!! 01:39:46 -!- kallisti has joined. 01:39:46 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 01:39:46 -!- kallisti has joined. 01:40:23 "Introvert hair is made of keratin, the same proteinaceous material that makes up your horn if you’re a rhino." 01:40:31 see, I'm an introvert! take that 01:40:42 kmc: this is great 01:42:40 * Fiora waves her display of keratinous fibers around 01:44:20 q: how do introverted rhinos deal 01:45:57 they're horny. 01:45:58 all the time. 01:47:33 bike this is a question that just came up between elliott and I 01:47:36 where did hair variation come from 01:47:39 help. 01:47:40 oh 01:47:40 like why do humans have such vastly different hairs 01:47:41 but 01:47:51 like, fingernails are pretty much almost the same. 01:47:54 thank god we have a biologist. 01:47:56 -!- shachaf has left. 01:48:06 like what is it with hair specifically o_O 01:48:10 brace yourself for my speech recognition questions fizzie 01:48:13 well i don't know if you've noticed but some other external features vary a lot 01:48:15 for example, skin 01:48:36 I guess so? but like everyone has pretty similar fingernails and those are the other keratin things 01:50:18 ok more serious answer 01:50:25 Most of the difference between different sorts of hairs is just the cross-section. 01:50:56 as in, like, the thickness? 01:51:01 And the shape. 01:51:11 hairs aren't round? 01:51:17 Straight hair is round. 01:51:41 hm, now i realize i don't know how hair is colored 01:51:54 i'm guessing it's not through actually coloring keratin... 01:52:15 it's melanin isn't it...? or... 01:52:29 well yeah but what's it coloring 01:52:58 "All natural hair colors are the result of two types of hair pigment. Both of these pigments are melanin types, produced inside the hair follicle and packed into granules found in the fibers." 01:53:16 so black hair is just a whole lot of eumelanin 01:53:35 anyway my point was going to be that ccoloring fingernails would be harder to implement. 01:54:13 i mean from my understanding fingernails are just a plate of keratin 01:54:15 Would be cool though. 01:54:17 hairs are more complicated 01:57:26 wow, reading the wikipedia article 01:57:36 it sounds like our best scientific ideas are really wildly speculative @_@ 01:57:53 like, for the evolution of curly hair (mammalian hair is normally straight) 01:57:58 for what, the prettiest nail colori- oh 01:58:07 and the evolution of straight hair again (after the diaspora of homo sapiens from africa) 01:58:07 shit yeah, i'm a mutant! unexplainable by modern science! 01:58:17 imo it would be pretty cool if people had different coloured nails 01:58:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_hair#Texture <-- here's your evolutionary biology!!! 01:58:35 they're transparent, you'd have to have a different color of skin there 01:58:37 is what i was getting at 01:59:17 "While some might argue that, by this logic, humans should also express hairy shoulders given that these body parts would putatively be exposed to similar conditions," evolutionary biology is the best 01:59:23 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:59:27 look Bike, if biology can't make them not transparent then that's biology's problem 01:59:29 `smlist (412) 01:59:30 smlist (412): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 01:59:35 @ask mnoqy smlist (412) 01:59:36 Consider it noted. 01:59:37 -!- shachaf has left. 02:00:00 huh, so they've mostly confirmed that east asian coarse/straight hair evolved within the past 65000 years 02:00:02 so what we need to do is set up a eugenic breeding program to develop nail colorings, is what you're saying. 02:00:03 so post-africa 02:00:19 frankly african genetics seem kind of scary to me 02:00:25 i mean you have khoisians and pygmies 02:00:28 that's like, super diverse! 02:00:41 make the rest of us look like conformist punks. 02:01:26 wow, "afro-textured hair" is actually the scientific term 02:01:58 "IIn the 19th century, a distinguishing feature of Khoisan women was considered to be their tendency for steatopygia.[20] This belief contributed greatly to the European fascination with the so-called Hottentot Venus." 19th century human biology is hilarious 02:02:06 "what's the distinguishing trait of these people?" "hot asses" 02:04:15 "these people have smaller heads, so they must be dumber than us, who are intelligent enough to decide that head size is a good indicator of intelligence" 02:04:47 yes 02:04:48 Biggest head is best head. 02:04:59 -!- intosh has joined. 02:05:22 ironically I guess that means the scientists doing that 02:05:24 were big-headed? 02:05:32 recent human evolution is weird shit though, i mean look at lactase 02:05:34 or denisova 02:05:39 what the fuck is that. 02:07:15 thank you genetics for the wonders of lactase 02:07:27 i'm a big fan of lactase 02:08:11 what i'm getting out of this wikipedia section on hair evolution is that we don't know shit and are throwing out tons of guesses. 02:08:37 «However, inclinations towards deeming hair texture "adaptively trivial" may root in certain cultural value judgments more than objective logic. In this sense the possibility that hair texture may have played an adaptively significant role cannot be completely eliminated from consideration.» like 02:09:43 I like how darwin was like "maybe there wasn't anything to it at all" 02:11:09 I assumed it would just be some nonsense about different kinds of hair evolving to stand out and ~attract mates~ or whatever 02:11:12 good thing nobody has any idea. 02:12:10 the fiber optic UV thing is too amusing 02:12:56 I have no idea what you're referring to but I just had a vision of fibre optic hair 02:13:07 clearly the future 02:14:55 Sounds like great networking technology. 02:15:08 the thing where they theorized straight hair conducted UV better for vitamin D (?!?) 02:17:24 -!- intosh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:18:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 02:19:39 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:20:04 Why are there so many people who have my name? 02:20:13 A Hardcore Pawn guy, a gay DJ, Christ... 02:26:57 -!- intosh has joined. 02:28:12 elliott: there's that too (re: nonsense), i'm just not quoting it. 02:32:27 Fiora: i don't think darwin talked about hair, they just meant that generally as genetic drift and so on. Pro Biologist Tip: if darwin's being mentioned outside of a historical context you can pretty much ignore the surrounding sentences 02:32:46 ah >_< 02:33:28 you may or may not recall that darwin's book on human evolution was so outdated and Victorian that I gave up on it 02:46:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:57:17 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:58:28 http://hmarco.org/bugs/CVE-2013-4788.html whooops 03:12:03 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:17:41 wow whoops 03:17:46 -!- kallisti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:19:59 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:19:59 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 03:19:59 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:21:25 lactase is cool, lactase persistence is cooler :) 03:21:56 in western society we think of "lactose intolerant" as a kind of minor disorder but really it's the rest of us who have the recent unusual mutation 03:23:08 yeah, i've tried to switch my vocab around. 03:23:37 also you can take pills with lactase in them so that's cool 03:23:51 the modern world: 10,000 problems and a pill for each one 03:24:56 I wonder how complicated the genetics of lactase persistence are 03:25:02 like it seems to vary exactly how intolerant people are 03:25:50 luckily there exists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developmental_regulation_of_lactase_expression_in_mammals 03:26:06 thank goodness 03:26:27 1 million base pairs? @_@ 03:27:11 maybe unpersistent people have it but it isn't activated 03:27:25 yeah lactase is shareware 03:27:46 and we europeans have evolved a crack 03:27:51 i mean their kids can still drink it, yeah. 03:28:00 I know my mom was somewhat intolerant but like not completely so 03:28:10 like she ate some cheese and stuff but never drank milk or anything 03:28:39 ok 03:28:51 my friend just eats cheese anyway and then takes it out on us by farting continuously 03:29:07 admirable plan 03:29:35 wait, explain? @_@ 03:29:39 my book on burma didn't really cover animal domestication, i guess that would help 03:29:50 dunno, dairy makes him fart 03:29:57 I thought this was a common effect of lack of lactase 03:30:03 slash low levels of it whatever 03:30:04 it is. 03:30:10 ah 03:30:51 geez in retrospect this must have been why my mom thought it was a little odd that I never stopped drinking milk since for her that would have been normal 03:31:00 but my dad always ate cereal with milk in the mornings 03:31:41 "Chinese and Japanese populations typically lose between 20 and 30 percent of their ability to digest lactose within three to four years of weaning. Some studies have found that most Japanese can consume 200 ml (8 fl oz) of milk without severe symptoms (Swagerty et al., 2002)." trying to imagine this study 03:32:09 "here's a huge pile of cheese. how much of this can you eat without vomiting" 03:32:25 >_< 03:32:47 presumably presented in the form of a game show 03:34:36 apparently lactase persistence is basically absent in native americans. i did not know this. 03:35:47 also "Native Americans however, have a significantly higher rate of alcoholism than average; it is unclear why this is the case.[76] Other risk factors such as cultural environmental effects e.g. trauma have been proposed to explain the higher rates of alcoholism among Native Americans compared to alcoholism levels in caucasians.[77][78]" great 03:43:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:44:44 -!- Bike has joined. 03:46:30 the solution: make bacteria that don't eat lactose 03:47:18 and only use that 03:53:36 also, about dairy 03:53:47 "Around 30 million years ago, the earth’s warm, moist climate became seasonally arid. This shift favored plants that could grow quickly and produce seeds to survive the dry period, and caused a great expansion of grasslands, which in the dry seasons became a sea of desiccated, fibrous stalks and leaves. 03:53:52 So began the gradual decline of the horses and the expansion of the deer family, the ruminants, which evolved the ability to survive on dry grass. 03:53:55 [...] Ruminants produce milk copiously on feed that is otherwise useless to humans and that can be stockpiled as straw or silage." 03:53:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:54:00 fun fax 03:54:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:55:11 -!- Bike has joined. 03:58:02 fun fax that are the basis of modern civilization? 03:58:55 well, more likely fun fax about agriculture than about dairying 03:59:04 but they are equally fun 03:59:54 moo 04:00:10 mooooo 04:00:25 actually that should be 04:00:26 meoww 04:07:08 i'm reading about plans to build a new airport for London in the Thames Estuary and one of the obstacles is that the estuary contains a sunken WW2 cargo ship with 1,400 tons of unexploded ordnance o_O 04:07:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery 04:07:18 @____@ 04:07:18 Unknown command, try @list 04:07:31 I did not know until today that 8" floppies existed 04:07:41 WWII was a hell of a thing, eh 04:07:46 yep 04:07:50 wow, you can see the masts. 04:07:52 ships like this going every which way all the time 04:07:57 some of them blew up in ports 04:08:28 Sgeo: that was back when they were actually *floppy*, right? 04:08:43 I think the 5.25" were floppy 04:08:48 Christ, it has blockbuster bombs 04:08:59 I should sleep 04:09:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_artificial_non-nuclear_explosions 04:09:56 reading about halifax is rather harrowing. 04:10:13 huh, i didn't know the parthenon was destroyed in a modern war 04:11:22 freaking turks 04:11:39 freaking turks. 04:11:53 They're rebuilding the Parthenon apparently 04:14:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Chicago_disaster "An Army Air Forces pilot flying in the area reported that the fireball was 3 mi (4.8 km) in diameter" 04:14:43 also, the colosseum was destroyed in the great Spartan-Athenian war 04:15:37 " Most of the dead and injured were enlisted African-American sailors." FDR doesn't care about black people 04:16:00 indeed "The Navy asked Congress to give each victim's family $5,000. Representative John E. Rankin (D-Mississippi) insisted the amount be reduced to $2,000 when he learned most of the dead were black men." 04:16:11 wow :/ 04:16:12 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:16:13 ah, Democrats 04:16:13 super classy 04:16:29 democrats more like racistocrats. 04:21:41 heh. first comment on an article about hyperloop: "Not in my backyard!" 04:21:54 Poe's law applicable here 04:22:51 I'm a minute run away from a train station 04:22:53 It's convenient. 04:23:02 ....did I just effectively tell esoteric where I live? 04:23:23 yes but we don't care 04:24:52 hm, really? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY#BANANA 04:25:41 the acronym that is 04:25:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAVE_People 04:27:29 wow, I hadn't tried it before, but the new mediawiki wysiwyg editor is very slick 04:30:55 -!- shachaf has joined. 04:31:57 kmc: It's actually called the Hundred of Hoom Railway. 04:32:06 But no one gets the name right. 04:32:43 ? 04:33:52 Just one of those puns. 04:36:53 kmc: help how do i prepare for job interview 04:39:16 hmm 04:39:18 what kind 04:44:12 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 04:44:59 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:01:55 um, a few different kinds 05:03:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:07:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:13:59 Someone suggested removing sizeof from C would make it to be Turing-complete. Would making it so that a byte has an infinite number of bits make it Turing-complete? 05:14:25 how do you define CHAR_BIT? 05:15:33 I suppose as (unsigned int)(-1) or something like that. What version of C is CHAR_BIT defined in? 05:16:22 C89 and C99 and C11, afaik 05:16:38 O, so that's all of them, I suppose. 05:17:01 Still, what I suggested might work? Does it work? 05:19:10 what would (unsigned int)(-1) be? 05:19:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:19:14 ok. 05:19:18 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:19:26 Sorry my computer was crashed 05:19:49 what would (unsigned int)(-1) be? 05:21:22 It would be all (infinte number of) bits set, I suppose. 05:21:45 I suspect unsigned int is required to be a rather more conventional type of integer 05:22:10 C should be extended with p-adics, obv 05:23:37 This isn't even all of p-adics, though, but it is a special case of one 05:23:47 2-adics. 05:24:02 pretty easy to do bitwise arithmetic on 'em, perfect for C 05:28:02 Yes. That is what I am saying, how to make a C to be Turing-complete, if this would work. I don't really know that (unsigned int)(-1) would be the correct value for CHAR_BIT, though, in such case... it should be the logarithm but I don't know that there is even a such things 05:28:05 I guess representing surds would be annoying. 05:28:36 I think if you're talking about a turing complete C you can forget stuff like CHAR_BIT. 05:30:55 But I want to adding/removing stuff as few as possible; can it be done without forgetting stuff like CHAR_BIT? 05:31:22 how about work something out and then add CHAR_BIT and shit like that back in. 05:32:05 Bike: the whole point of talking about a turing complete C is to be pedantic. 05:32:11 why would you ignore CHAR_BIT? 05:32:22 imo, i hate you. 05:32:39 have you all seen the relevant HAKMEM entry? 05:32:55 Is there a relevant HAKMEM entry? What number is it? 05:34:42 154 05:37:28 Yes, I have seen that, although I figured out the conclusion about algebra independently too 05:47:51 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 05:53:49 sometimes browser history autocomplete reminds me of the best things, like http://drilbert.tumblr.com/ 05:54:53 http://25.media.tumblr.com/653a5a3738a955c2261e618720d3d2f5/tumblr_mov5xyyjR81sou3fto1_250.png ugh, i've been scooped. 05:59:25 compare and contrast: http://25.media.tumblr.com/7ba349e5889b12f74f3298b49ec6be1a/tumblr_mlf8nwyrKD1sou3fto1_r1_500.png http://25.media.tumblr.com/5dc653403c87e50c45d88228d685d143/tumblr_mfnwniHK091rlynuno1_500.jpg 06:00:34 heh 06:01:15 * kmc practices blowing smoke (well, vapor) rings 06:01:45 kmc: I saw someone doing that today. 06:01:48 "@drymangobird thbe NSA is really good. but it could be bad? please dont write any opinions about it until ive solved this" satire on the media 06:01:54 Inside a car. 06:02:29 Bike: have you noticed that tumblr picture urls are really long and ugly hth 06:02:56 it's tru. 06:02:59 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:03:15 tumblr is also really long and ugly. 06:03:18 just saying. 06:03:25 shachaf: do you know what they were smoke (or, vape) ing? 06:03:39 No, I just saw them through the car window. 06:03:47 And then a second person went into the car and they drove off. 06:03:58 probably a drug deal 06:04:10 Maybe. 06:04:34 what are you smoke (or, vape) ing 06:15:54 watermelon-flavoured not-tobacco 06:15:57 something containing nicotine 06:18:06 O, so that's all of them, I suppose. <--- you of all people I would expect to program in K&R C 06:18:49 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:26:05 kmc: are you addicted to nicotine now :'( 06:28:16 shachaf: don't think so 06:30:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:31:38 * kmc → afk 06:36:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 06:37:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 07:01:06 -!- intosh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:01:31 -!- intosh has joined. 07:17:54 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:00:52 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:23:35 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:49:10 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:52:40 -!- variable has joined. 09:07:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:09:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 10:10:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 10:23:50 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:30:28 -!- itsy has joined. 10:46:34 Just use C++, then you get a turing-complete language at compile time. 10:46:38 -!- Jafet1 has changed nick to Jafet. 10:49:33 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:52:59 -!- carado has joined. 10:56:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:56:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 10:56:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:20:19 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:20:19 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 11:20:19 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:21:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:25:45 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:42:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:43:12 @tell Bike yeah when i say "weird" i don't mean like, "uncommon", so much as "wow this does not seem like something i personally would think is okay" <-- i think the point of this clause is that it is very hard for the writer of the contract to ensure that no provision of it is illegal and unenforceable in _any_ jurisdiction, and it would be unreasonable for the whole contract to become void because of that. 11:43:12 Consider it noted. 11:54:37 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:00:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:19:31 "Otherwise identical twins who are Introvert and Extrovert must be kept separate and never allowed to come into physical contact." <-- oh so that's what's up with elliott and Taneb 12:20:00 Must be 12:24:46 it makes so much sense now 12:26:20 i feel that this thing that came up when i googled something from that article may also be relevant to this channel http://www.gadflyonline.com/10-29-01/comm-introverts.html 12:27:08 (it has finns _and_ introverts. wait, i'm being redundant.) 12:42:54 also jews. 12:43:50 finnish jews. 12:44:57 Finnish Jews in the USA 12:45:42 I sometimes think I don't fit into the boxes with regards to the vertiness 12:45:57 But then I realise I'm really extroverted, I just don't get invited to stuff 12:52:50 mhm 12:56:48 And also I nap when I am bored 13:00:13 -!- boily has joined. 13:00:35 good humid morning! 13:01:09 Hi 13:01:44 Humidity in Hexham was over 50% this morning 13:06:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:08:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:13:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:15:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:16:51 Taneb: it's only up to 74% this morning. it's going to get worse until the thunderstorms. 13:18:34 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:19:57 Oh dear 13:22:33 you can spot who bicycle in the morning very easily. 13:24:12 * Fiora waves to Bike 13:32:12 * boily particles to Fiora 13:37:12 * itsy quarks to boily 13:37:33 * Fiora interacts weakly with boily 13:38:08 * Taneb observes it all 13:39:21 Noooo... everything changed now you observed :-( 13:44:24 -!- jsvine has joined. 13:51:06 there was that hypertrain video featured on boingboing some time ago (http://vimeo.com/68546202). the tune got stuck in my head, and yesteray I learned that you can jamendo the album: http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a98191/solar-storm 13:51:22 `olist (901) 13:51:24 olist (901): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 13:52:22 901? 13:57:20 so, it appears as though I am buying shaving supplies by just choosing the first item listed in an Amazon search for it 13:57:31 whynot 13:57:46 G'racenotes. 13:57:53 wynaut is a pokemon 13:58:23 Good `olist 13:58:31 `olist (555) 13:58:33 olist (555): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 13:58:38 I was going to write wynaut, but I figured that would be obvious 13:59:07 boily: Hmm? 13:59:13 hmm, don't they usually have shaving supplies in super markets? 13:59:24 lots of people shave 13:59:39 olsner, Gracenotes is stockpiling 13:59:48 no, I am trying to get fancy shaving supplies 13:59:56 The supermarkets are already empty of shaving equipment around there 14:00:01 like a badger brush and stuff. poor badgers. 14:00:09 olsner: Does Jesus? 14:00:11 shachaf: I am intrigued by the number. 14:00:22 Gracenotes used Stockpile! 14:00:28 Gracenotes stockpiled 1. 14:00:32 boily: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html 14:00:38 shachaf: dunno, haven't asked him 14:00:56 shachaf: oh, right. I had forgot about the ootsness of the olist. 14:01:25 there's kind of a triple of paraphernelia: brush, mug, and soap 14:02:22 This reminds me, I kinda need a shave right now 14:03:23 Gracenotes: You should get non-badger things. 14:04:00 Probably. It is a bit weird. 14:04:13 People do wear wool, though. 14:08:09 I'm still on the electric side of the Shave. /r/wicked_edge is very tempting, and I bought a kit for my dad's birthday last week. 14:11:48 -!- neena has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:12:36 I'd say leather is a bit weirder than wool 14:16:19 boily: i went non-electric after my razor short circuited the other week 14:18:07 mainly because the local grocery shop, which i think is too small to be considered a supermarket, had non-electric ones. 14:26:37 Vatican offers 'time off purgatory' to followers of Pope Francis tweets 14:26:38 Papal court handling pardons for sins says contrite Catholics may win 'indulgences' by following World Youth Day on Twitter 14:26:57 2013, stupidest year yet 14:27:15 elliott: I dunno 14:27:25 2008 was pretty stupid 14:27:53 I guess they're partying like it's 1517? 14:28:33 someone should rig an arduino to measure ambient stupidity, and put realtime graphs on the intarwebs. 14:32:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:54:26 didn't that catholic church stop threatening their adherents with purgatory not too long ago? as matter of doctrine, or something? 14:55:55 "oh, we changed your minds" like 14:58:40 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:59:20 >implying religion isn't already at max stupidity to begin with 15:00:38 thanks for your contribution. 15:00:38 -!- itsy has left. 15:01:58 the issue is that early christians didn't think that far enough ahead; they invented hell to convert people, but had no doctrinal basis for subjugating those who were already converted 15:03:07 It's just like when an underground indie band signs with a major label... you lose that connection to your fans and end up threatening to torture them and send their dead relatives to hell 15:03:54 Scott Pilgrim was a great movie 15:33:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:53:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:57:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:05:02 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:10:39 looks like catholicism still has purgatory. 16:11:04 2005: "Purgatory is the state of those who die in God’s friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness of heaven." 16:13:56 Yes, it always has had, for a long time, I think. 16:19:11 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:25:23 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:25:45 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 16:25:51 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:26:00 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:28:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:29:05 -!- coppro has joined. 16:29:40 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:29:44 i think they got rid of limbo but not purgatory 16:55:06 limbo is not the same as purgatory? 16:56:22 nah 16:56:43 Limbo is part of hell 17:06:06 the difference is that you can get out of purgatory 17:36:28 I do not believe any of that is sensible or necessary or even helpful. 17:37:58 The biggest greed is wanting an afterlife. 17:38:24 (Actually, the biggest greed is wanting an afterlife and taking everything with you, but I am ignoring this for the sake of this purpose.) 17:42:33 -!- conehead has joined. 17:52:29 Limbo is like Hell Lite where unbaptized people who didn't really do anything wrong go 17:52:32 I think 17:52:57 zzo38: what do you think of Pascal's Wager? 17:54:01 -!- neena has joined. 17:54:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:54:36 The biggest greed is wanting literally everything. 17:55:23 also http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/02/rokos-basilisk-wants-you.html 17:56:22 Minkowski space: Virgin Galactic makes a ski resort for dwarf cattle 17:58:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:02:27 -!- Bike has joined. 18:12:52 -!- sacje has joined. 18:13:10 kmc: oh, that's the backwards causality thing? fucking hilarious drama there, imo 18:13:37 oh, stross has a blog? :D 18:14:28 Taneb: what 18:14:30 yeah, it's pretty good 18:15:04 i'm kind of glad he can write about transhuman stuff and not be a "rationalist" dumbass 18:15:47 i wonder why he says neural tube specifically. what about the poor jellyfish 18:15:51 or sponges!! 18:15:54 or rocks 18:16:02 I have his Redshirts epub somewhere, now I need to find my e-reader and charge it. 18:16:29 jellyfishes are food. sponges are food. I think rocks are food, but I'm not sure. 18:16:49 well fish are food and they're chordates too. 18:17:30 have i brought up my Stross Rant in this channel 18:18:08 not that i've heard 18:18:29 ok so have you read any of his '20 minutes into the future'-type books 18:18:42 no spoilers plz 18:19:06 does the one with socialist crustaceans count i read that one 18:19:19 accelerando that's the title. 18:19:37 basically i tried a couple and i stopped after like a chapter because he tends to set them in edinburgh and he insists on writing scottish accents phonetically for some reason 18:19:53 it's just ridiculous 18:20:03 oh, yeah, you've mentioned that. 18:26:05 haha 18:26:08 kmc, stupid pun 18:26:28 i wonder what Bike has against "rationalists" (there are many valid answers) 18:27:28 kmc: oh, btw, how's P. E. Trudeau's existence going? 18:27:44 mostly being so far up their own rectums they make AI into a moralist wet dream and don't even work in the damn field. (also bayesianism ew) 18:27:49 boily: it exists, I've been there 18:28:10 and i mean have you read yudkosky. 18:28:19 like, at all. 18:29:03 coppro: the problem is, you're Ontarian. we need somebody uncanadian to objectively judge his existence. 18:31:20 boily: no really, I've been there 18:31:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montr%C3%A9al%E2%80%93Pierre_Elliott_Trudeau_International_Airport 18:31:38 oh, you're talking about the airport. 18:32:22 of course it exists. a very nice airport, I must say. and you have Montréal surrounding it! 18:32:37 it's just a shame that they changed its name from Dorval to PET. 18:33:22 I've also seen progeny of Trudea 18:33:26 *Trudeau 18:33:28 the person 18:33:57 been within three feet of his spawn 18:34:00 are you sure they were progeny? 18:34:06 yes 18:34:10 definitely. 18:34:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXARrMadTKk conveniently shared 18:34:33 his spawn was in a hurry 18:34:39 like he was some celebrity or something 18:38:59 what's wrong with bayesians 18:40:28 well, nothing, really, if you're not crazy like yudkowsky, but i'm more sympathetic to frequentism. 18:41:38 http://vserver1.cscs.lsa.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/606.html 18:42:58 (for example) 18:46:54 "The theme here is to construct some simple yet pointed examples where Bayesian inference goes wrong" 18:47:01 presumably you can do the same for frequentist statistics? 18:47:24 it's kind of absurd that people are expected to pick an ideological side between bayesian and frequentist and then apply that technique in 100% of cases 18:47:57 yeah 18:48:09 well, not expected really 18:48:22 just in "cares about obscure epistemology issue" land 18:48:40 kmc: I think Pascal's wager isn't really very good, because the things it considers isn't important and doesn't really prove anything anyways. There is also the reverse (which I have seen called "Rachel's Wager", so I will call it that), but that isn't very good either. 18:48:55 in my high school stats class probability was defined bayesianly and then we went ahead and used entirely frequentist methods and nobody cared because it works and it's high school 18:49:23 stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindley's_paradox is still interesting though! 18:50:20 zzo38: what's the reverse? 18:51:09 kmc: That you will go to hell for acting stupid if you believe in God. 18:51:22 what do you mean? 18:51:31 Some people prefer it, but I think both ways are no good. 18:52:49 there's http://arxiv.org/abs/1006.3868 if you actually care i guess 18:52:53 also a billion other papers on it 18:52:55 philosophy~ 18:58:14 kmc: presumably "god loves atheists and hates believers, punishes appropriately, so you should not believe in him" 18:58:26 that one is kinda more contradictory than pascal's wager though :P 18:58:32 like "this sentence is true" vs. "this sentence is false" 19:07:36 what's contradictory about it 19:08:25 also i think i misrepresented myself, i don't care so much about the philosophy stuff (though obviously i pay some attention), what really annoys me is when people think bayesian methods are how human reason works, which seems all kinds of implausible to me for unphilosophical reasons 19:08:32 i'm just incoherent and cna't explain myself, woe 19:09:11 ah, there are other places in the world with exclamation marks in their names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westward_Ho! 19:10:29 lol nice etymology 19:22:38 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:28:21 ~metar CYUL 19:28:22 CYUL 171900Z 21016G21KT 15SM FEW045 FEW160 SCT240 33/24 A2998 RMK CU1AC1CI2 SLP152 DENSITY ALT 2000FT 19:29:36 we're at apocalypse minus 5400 seconds. 19:29:52 Cool 19:37:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:40:13 how do ya figure 19:41:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:48:10 boily??? 19:48:32 Phantom_Hoover: oh, he meant me. sorry. 19:49:04 I peeked at the TAF. +TSGRRA coming in at 5pm EDT (9pm UTC). 19:49:38 what's a tsgrra 19:50:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:50:34 thunderstorm, hail, rain. the + means “holy fungot of doom”. 19:53:23 static PrototypeClassName__: [u8, ..21] = ['W' as u8, 'i' as u8, 'n' as u8, 'd' as u8, 'o' as u8, 'w' as u8, 'P' as u8, 'r' as u8, 'o' as u8, 'x' as u8, 'y' as u8, 'P' as u8, 'r' as u8, 'o' as u8, 't' as u8, 'o' as u8, 't' as u8, 'y' as u8, 'p' as u8, 'e' as u8, 0 as u8]; 19:53:27 i love generated code 19:53:45 it's great working on open source because I am free to paste anything amusing at y'all 19:54:22 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:55:26 kmc: does it do public static final void? 19:55:49 (it = the generator) 19:56:16 I've always wondered whether that's actually a human thing 19:56:27 ? 19:56:37 this is Rust not Java 19:56:47 kmc: for a second i thought that was bytecode. 19:56:53 haha 19:56:56 kmc: you don't have public? 19:57:02 or static? 19:57:04 or final? 19:57:05 I think having built-in code generator to a programming language would be useful things to have. Including both preprocessors and postprocessors. 19:57:09 we have 'pub', but I'm still not sure what you're getting at 19:57:12 What's the ..21, the length? 19:57:14 yes 19:57:22 rust syntax is like c++ except all the words are shorter 19:57:26 oh right 19:57:27 > length "WindowProxyPrototype\0" 19:57:27 21 19:57:42 this code is generated from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_IDL 19:57:51 kmc: the name of the class made me think java 19:58:05 it's nice that the Web platform is specified (partially) in a machine-readable format 19:58:50 The syntax of IDL files is fairly well documented in the ​Web IDL spec, but it is too formal to read, as Chromium project documentation states.[2] 19:59:08 lol. 19:59:25 the best part is the citation 20:02:46 kmc: does rust do protected inheritance 20:03:42 it doesn't really do inheritance at all 20:03:46 afaik 20:04:01 ah, I see 20:04:17 there's almost no subtyping either 20:04:18 I thought it did static polymorphism though? 20:04:23 sure 20:05:08 so what determines whether you can have static polymorphism for a given object? 20:05:18 interfaces? 20:05:30 is static polymorphism really a quality of "objects", i'm confused 20:06:16 i don't understan AnotherTest's question either 20:06:22 although I'm also trying to pay attention to something else 20:06:39 there are "traits", they are kind of like type classes or interfaces, you can implement them for data structures 20:06:48 not sure if we're talking about the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_metaprogramming#Static_polymorphism 20:06:52 you can also have data structures with type parameters 20:07:15 I don't know of any equivalent to CRTP in Rust................... 20:07:51 Well, that would just be a way of achieving it 20:07:55 i was assuming parametric polymorphism 20:08:12 so yeah traits are resolved statically 20:08:26 because there's no subtyping, so no distinction between static and dynamic type 20:08:41 the exception being when you existentially quantify over a trait, which happens implicitly by using it as a type name 20:08:46 that is vtable-like, I think 20:09:00 is there any way to get proper general existential quant 20:09:05 not afaik 20:09:10 kmc this language is kind of gross 20:09:14 i'm sorry 20:09:16 not gonna argue with that 20:09:24 it's not haskell, if you want haskell you will be disappointed 20:09:28 it does some things haskell can't 20:09:55 sitting over here wanting haskell 20:10:00 welp 20:10:10 kmc: traits are kind of like mixins right? 20:10:14 i dunno 20:10:21 but just without the inheritance part 20:10:37 elliott you'll never work for Mozilla at this rate. 20:10:39 I don't really like explaining language features by answering questions of the form "they're kind of like X right?" where X is something I haven't used 20:10:52 i'm pretty sure if you're talking about mixins without inheritance you are not going to get any useful analogy at all 20:10:56 TBH, rust seems a bit weird 20:11:05 says the c++ dude 20:11:08 since like what does that even mean 20:11:09 every language is a bit weird dood 20:11:19 elliott: I have not claimed that C++ isn't ;) 20:11:22 snobol is the one true language that isn't weird at all, hth. 20:11:34 Rust is very unusual though, almost no other language tries to give you precise control over allocation and be memory-safe at the same time 20:11:35 ~duck snobol 20:11:36 SNOBOL (StriNg Oriented and symBOlic Language) is a series of computer programming languages developed between 1962 and 1967 at AT&T Bell Laboratories by David J. Farber, Ralph E. Griswold and Ivan P. Polonsky, culminating in SNOBOL4. 20:11:48 kmc: inb4 std::unique_ptr 20:12:13 yeah unique_ptr is a clear inspiration for Rust`s ~ pointers but the C++ version is not statically safe in all cases 20:12:21 C++, known for its memory safety 20:12:36 elliott: did you know GC is optional in C++11? 20:12:44 (note: optional, so nothing really changed) 20:12:47 like if I move out of a unique_ptr and then try to dereference it later in the same scope 20:12:49 what does that mean 20:12:55 Rust will give a compiler error in that situation 20:12:59 like GC is optional in C by some measure, isn't it 20:13:20 kmc: if you move out of a unique ptr, does this mean you are a pointer? 20:13:27 O_O 20:14:08 I don't really understand what you mean with "moving out of a unique_ptr" 20:14:24 do you mean getting the underlying pointer? 20:14:37 no I mean calling a function with a unique_ptr argument, thereby transferring ownership to that function 20:14:47 oh, no then you should use shared_ptr 20:14:57 (if you don't want to transfer ownership) 20:15:13 no i *do* want to transfer ownership, I just want the compiler to know that I've done so and complain later that I don't own the object anymore 20:15:20 this is what I mean by "unique_ptr is not memory safe" 20:15:23 ah, yes, indeed 20:15:30 that's a problem 20:15:47 and that's what Rust can do, by building unique ownership into the language deeply 20:17:28 can rust handle more complex ownership situations 20:17:35 like someone having read-only access and someone else having rw-access simultaneously 20:17:41 yes, ish 20:17:42 but suppose I want to transfer ownership based on some input, how would the compiler know what I'm doing? 20:17:53 mutability is tracked 20:18:17 so it's not really a compile time thingy or is it 20:18:20 it is 20:18:28 AnotherTest: good question, I think if you want to use an owned thing after an 'if', it has to be not moved out by either branch 20:18:33 similar to other type things 20:19:01 the other major innovation in Rust is that you can "borrow" pointers to owned things (or GC'd things, or things on the stack) without transferring ownership 20:19:07 and these borrowings are also statically checked for safety 20:20:15 with one exception: when you borrow a pointer to a mutable GC'd box, it needs to be frozen dynamically 20:20:44 because you don't know statically who else has access to such a box 20:21:27 so if you hand out a borrowed pointer to a mutable GC'd box, and later try to mutate it, that can fail at runtime 20:22:03 will the compiler check for conditions that can never be met? 20:22:09 what do you mean 20:22:21 eg. if I have if(true) else transferOwnership(); other things here 20:22:36 i don't think so 20:22:42 is that an actual concern 20:22:50 Bike: maybe, I don't know yet 20:23:32 not sure that rustc even does dead code elimination; mostly optimizations are handled by LLVM on the backend 20:23:42 i'd say if the compiler can figure a condition is always met it should probably warn you... 20:24:01 there are a lot of warnings, e.g. it will warn you if you declare something mutable and then don't mutate it 20:24:28 Bike: yeah, but for loops that's not always wanted 20:26:00 while(true) { transferOwnership(); break;} is it ok to use the pointer now? 20:26:31 hm and even with if 20:26:35 I don't get how it would work 20:27:03 so that would not work 20:27:18 (that is, you'd get a compile-time error) 20:27:23 I don't know the fine points of the checker; obviously it has to be conservative (like basically any static analysis) 20:27:23 right? 20:28:07 I find that static analysis has false positives sometimes 20:28:25 if (proveRiemannHypothesis()) { transferOwnership(); } 20:29:00 we don't expect the compiler to verify the riemann hypothesis in order to accept this code 20:29:15 but it won't accept the code 20:29:16 if (collatzConjectureHasACycle()) 20:29:18 it can just reject the code even if it's actually safe 20:29:33 i don't think this is an important criticism of the approach 20:29:38 a program that halts if the RH is true would be pretty interesting 20:30:20 halting if RH is false is a lot easier, right? 20:30:48 yeah, i thought this was like, the entire point of static analysis 20:30:49 kmc: you don't happen to have static if right? 20:30:52 it's in TAPL's introduction, man. 20:31:14 if you find that valid programs are rejected a lot *in practice* then that's a problem 20:31:20 (I doubt such a program exists beyond the obvious "any program that halts, assuming the RH is true") 20:31:20 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:31:38 -!- elliott has joined. 20:32:01 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest41525. 20:32:07 kmc: well, if you had templates for example, this could become a problem 20:32:26 because then you'll have a lot of situations where code will always be true or false 20:32:27 Guest41525: what sense of "exists" you talkin 20:32:28 -!- Guest41525 has quit (Client Quit). 20:32:32 FINE 20:32:32 *conditions 20:32:35 -!- elliott_ has joined. 20:32:51 but yeah, no templates, no worries 20:32:54 -!- elliott_ has quit (Client Quit). 20:33:04 -!- elliott_ has joined. 20:33:06 elliott_: what sense of "exists" you talking ELLIOTT YOU PIECE OF SHIT YOU BETTER READ THE LOGS 20:33:11 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 20:33:19 hi 20:33:21 AnotherTest: there is polymorphism, it's implemented like templates 20:33:29 * boily slaps elliott like an old CRT TV that has circuit problems and gets bad signal 20:33:50 don't think you can get away with writing a polymorphic function which fails the ownership checks and then only instantiating it on things which, when constant folded, happen to be safe 20:34:05 kmc: I mean when you start comparing types 20:34:05 I'd be really interested to see a practical example of something like that 20:34:13 eg. type traits 20:34:18 and static if of course 20:34:33 kmc: this could be achieved with std::enable_if 20:35:01 but again, C++ doesn't do this, and I don't think it would ever be possible to add that to the current language 20:35:25 kmc: I'll see what I can come up with 20:35:37 wait, what are you trying to do? 20:35:49 something stupid in C++? 20:35:54 :'( 20:38:08 kmc: suppose you had a list of types and you wanted to pass ownership of a pointer to only a sublist of those types 20:38:49 or even to all of them 20:39:40 in that case, depending on what types someone puts in the list, the compiler might have to complain or not 20:40:03 but I don't think you can have lists of types in rust so there's no real problem 20:40:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:40:25 I'm not sure to what degree you can do the crazy C++ template tricks 20:40:33 Rust does have an actual macro system, too 20:40:37 how actual 20:41:00 don't know much about it, http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/tutorial-macros.html 20:41:30 first apocalyptic drops. it's starting. 20:51:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: *blub*). 20:51:35 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:55:26 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:39:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:40:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:41:18 -!- Bike has joined. 21:41:46 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:43:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:51:58 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:56:38 is it feasible to give a linux VM read access to an ext4 partition so it can read it (the host OS cannot) 21:56:51 it would be more convenient than using a live cd 21:58:26 yes 21:58:47 okay 21:58:58 kind of scary giving a VM direct access to the disk like that 21:59:05 feels good man 21:59:13 can virtualbox do it 21:59:27 one time I installed Windows to a spare partition, from a VM in this manner 21:59:31 and then rebooted into it 21:59:35 didn't work tho.............. 21:59:41 elliott: i don't know 21:59:45 qemu / kvm can 22:00:07 well, if I could run qemu/kvm I could read ext4 partitions too :P 22:00:15 it's pretty common in the Enterprise to have your VMs on actual partitions or LVM LVs instead of files 22:00:18 ah so that's the issue 22:00:25 your host is Windows? 22:00:29 isn't there a read-only ext driver for Windows 22:00:30 OS X... so close enough 22:00:41 I think that thing can only handle ext3 or whatever 22:00:42 oh 22:00:50 you can't mount ext4 as ext2/3? 22:00:55 you can mount ext3 as ext2 22:00:57 I think no if they use that superblock thing 22:01:02 or 22:01:04 not superblock 22:01:05 what is it called? 22:01:12 butt block 22:01:24 maybe extents... 22:01:26 uberblock? 22:01:36 anyway it would scare me too much, but I don't think it exists for OS X 22:01:50 oh maybe there is a paid one 22:02:02 or... FUSE 22:02:18 suddenly giving a VM access to my disk sounds much less scary than all this 22:02:48 you could also dd your ext4 partition to a file and then give the VM access to that 22:03:02 right 22:03:06 it is like a hundred gigabytes though 22:03:07 or maybe you can find some userspace ext4-parsing tools 22:03:11 I don't actually have enough space for that 22:03:14 "ext3 is partially forward compatible with ext4. That is, ext4 can be mounted as ext3 (using "ext3" as the filesystem type when mounting). However if the ext4 partition uses extents (a major new feature of ext4), then the ability to mount as ext3 is lost." 22:03:14 "victim-operated improvised explosive devices" 22:03:24 -!- intosh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:03:34 Fiora: okay yeah, extents must be what I was thinking of then 22:03:56 I don't actually know if the partition uses them but I don't really want to bother finding out as opposed to just doing something that'll work regardless... 22:03:56 (yay wikipedia) 22:04:08 Bike, wp sez that's a booby trap, not a suicide bomb... 22:04:11 I checked Wikipedia but didn't see that, go me 22:04:49 "Ext4 - Linux filesystem (when the configuration enables extents — the default in Linux since version 2.6.23)." 22:04:59 that's... I guess probably it won't work then >_< 22:05:06 Phantom__Hoover: it's a landmine 22:05:28 for a suicide bomb the attacker would die but not really be a victim. 22:05:52 wp also sez the pIRA was where the term was first applied so 'land mine' is probably too specific 22:06:14 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:08:19 -!- sprocklem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:08:44 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:15:31 horror-evading euphemistic terminology 22:16:26 hm needs something with an ironic acronym 22:16:31 *people-to-pieces converter 22:16:52 what if you trick someone into building a bomb 22:16:58 by telling them it's something else 22:17:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:17:51 this came up because i was reading about some kid in syria making strides in cheap peoplekilling 22:17:53 Which is easier, to trick someone to build a bomb if you tell them it is not a bomb, or to trick someone to build some thing that isn't a bomb if you tell them that it is a bomb? 22:17:54 rather depressing 22:18:07 made grenades for $3 22:27:04 hmm, according to my calculations this season is supposed to be from 2000, yet no-one has a cell phone 22:28:15 http://tobtu.com/decryptocat.php "oops" again. 22:30:36 season of what? 22:33:14 "Abu Yassin, a former network engineer who has emerged as one of Aleppo’s most prolific weapons manufacturers." this could be you, #esoteric 22:33:21 In what city is that where no-one has a cell phone? 22:35:05 pyongyang 22:35:23 Bike: geez, they are like, schizophrenic on exactly what kind of cryptography to use 22:35:39 http://www.amazon.com/Pyongyang-A-Journey-North-Korea/dp/1897299214 is pretty cool 22:35:46 How many people have cellphone in that city in 2000? 22:35:58 as is http://www.amazon.com/Jerusalem-Chronicles-Holy-Guy-Delisle/dp/1770460713/ref=sr_1_1 22:36:07 Bike: did something happen (beyond the last time that made the rounds, I can't tell if it changed?) 22:36:52 oh i didn't know it made rounds 22:38:03 well, it's updated as of the eleventh. 22:39:50 -!- Poolala has joined. 22:40:49 -!- Poolala has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:41:07 wow, this guy worked in a network outfit in beirut and only made $25k... 22:42:27 what's the purchasing power adjustment? 22:43:27 i um, don't even know what that means. >_> 22:43:46 like, to adjust for cost of living differences or something? 22:43:53 yeah 22:44:10 hi kmc 22:44:15 hichaf 22:44:34 i really don't know. 22:44:52 it says it "meant he lived well" 22:45:51 caltraaaaain to san francisco 22:46:34 "When I ask about one odd-looking, 15-foot-long wooden trebuchet, which its proud creator is using to hurl 4-pound fragmentation bombs, he tells me he got the idea from the videogame Age of Empires. " 22:47:10 it feels weird to think that I am part of an entire generation that grew up on age of empires 2 22:47:29 yes. 22:47:31 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:47:59 i'm sitting here reading wired articles and another guy who played the same game decided to build trebuchets to blow things up. 22:48:19 like I've met all kinds of people who like all kinds of different things 22:48:39 but when I mention age of empires 2 22:48:45 everyone is like "oh that game!!!" and starts squeeing about it 22:48:50 kmc: are you going to bacat 22:48:50 and suddenly we have a thing in common 22:49:07 "After they use repeated test firings to determine the mortar’s range—usually around 2 kilometers—the rebels check Google Maps to pick a suitable spot that sits the same distance from their target. They transport the rocket there and then use a compass to aim it." christ 22:49:35 is that today 22:49:50 yes 22:50:05 i'm not 22:50:24 what the hecks, he tried building a robot... 22:51:35 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:51:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:52:08 -!- jsvine has joined. 22:54:38 eating cheetos with chopsticks is so civilized 22:54:42 -!- jsvine has quit (Client Quit). 22:55:05 cheetos... with... chopsticks? 22:55:14 kmc: not sure i can be civilized hth 22:57:22 Fiora: yeah so the dust doesn't get on your hands 22:57:38 that's.... that's actually kind of brilliant O_O 22:58:18 -!- sacje has joined. 22:58:24 i'm not much of a cheetos guy but iv always eaten them with spoons or forks or something 22:58:30 maybe i should learn chopsticks 22:58:41 chopsticks are pretty cool 22:58:58 i like how asian chefs use giant chopsticks to manipulate the food they're cooking 22:59:34 also factory workers applying bonding wires to integrated circuits http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2946 23:02:31 what the hell. 23:03:55 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:04:06 i've said this before but bunnie's blog is incredibly interesting 23:04:38 Chopsticks are pretty great for cheetos. 23:04:45 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=147 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=1022 23:04:57 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2269 23:05:02 "China: Crowdsourced Tax Enforcement" 23:06:10 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:06:49 makes radio shack look pathetic 23:07:23 -!- sacje has joined. 23:09:07 that microsd article is really interesting 23:09:17 radio shack doesn't need any help looking pathetic 23:11:50 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:13:49 -!- TeruFSX has changed nick to tertu. 23:17:41 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:21:49 granted 23:22:05 although they are getting less pathetic, they have Arduinos and stuff now 23:27:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Guineas). 23:28:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:35:11 -!- carado has joined. 23:46:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2013-07-18: 00:56:53 -!- yorick has joined. 01:07:28 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:08:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:10 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:15:30 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:16:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:40:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:56:13 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:42:13 HexChat has taken to crashing for no reasons 03:03:09 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 03:07:13 -!- Bike has joined. 03:07:40 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:10:48 Cheetos with chopstick seem like it could be good idea certainly. 03:44:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:54:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:55:12 I blame HexChat 03:59:27 Of what? 04:08:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:09:24 -!- Bike has joined. 04:28:10 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:52:56 HexChat of Hexham. 05:00:14 No, I mean what you blame them of? 05:01:58 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:02:24 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:02:59 -!- sacje has joined. 05:05:59 What is the dictionary coder which is using a fixed dictionary? 05:18:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:32:45 -!- intosh has joined. 05:35:41 If using a static dictionary with overlapping strings, would it help to precompute some table involving the overlapping information? 05:36:47 help what 05:50:31 Is it not understandable? 05:51:11 I mean, what is it you want to help. 05:52:19 O, maybe I am unclear. 05:52:27 I mean to help the encoding algorithm. 05:53:44 Actually, I guess a simpler way, but maybe a slightless compression, would be to make the order of how long each one is and then search and replace starting with the longest entries. 05:54:21 In the specific case I am using it is Z-machine, so it isn't actually that simple, although that might be good enough. 05:57:54 oh i too interpreted what Bike said as "help, what" 05:58:17 i, too 05:58:18 understandable 05:58:34 i, even i, can play dead 05:59:19 kmc: The response is the same either way, as it turns out, it means what I wrote isn't understandable 05:59:32 Bike: http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/ this is kind of cool 05:59:37 kmc: somehow still finding sand in my shoe 05:59:42 haha yeah 05:59:46 kmc: or, rather, between my toes, when i put the shoe on 05:59:48 still finding sand in my bed 05:59:58 did you two go to the beach? 06:00:04 yep 06:01:45 #esandteric 06:02:07 Fiora: imagining a receptionist at the JPL whose job is to point very precisely at where the probe is. 06:02:58 XD 06:03:49 34 and a half light-hours, huh. wonder if we'll ever pass that. 06:05:01 well, like, the probe passes the record every second, doesn't it? 06:05:46 a different probe, i meant :/ 06:05:58 oh, probably New Horizons? 06:06:23 that one's on an escape trajectory too 06:06:28 though I think it'll be a bit slow 06:06:36 oh I thought you meant whether humans will ever get that far from earth 06:06:38 *slower 06:06:54 well, i guess that's a question too 06:06:56 rather farther off though 06:07:22 yeah, that one in particular is probably far :/ since there'd be no point in sending humans that far unless like, you're going to another star system 06:07:25 kmc: If you do, try to make sure not to damage things too much in other solar systems and even in the stars themself 06:07:35 ok 06:07:37 But it would probably take too long to get there anyways. 06:07:38 will do 06:07:49 don't play golf on proxima centauri 06:08:21 what's the lore... right, the alpha centauri spaceship gets launched in 2060 06:08:41 I think 06:08:53 doesn't alpha centauri also start after a global conflict nukes earth. 06:08:55 can we like not do that 06:09:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:09:09 that... yeah. I think we shouldn't do that 06:09:34 it's settled then, no biosphere destruction 06:09:45 I don't think you should play golf on a star. 06:09:59 why not 06:10:07 Because it won't work. 06:10:18 how unimaginative. 06:20:46 What is the difference between the Oxford Idioms Dictionary (of English) and the Oxford Dictionary of English Idioms? 06:21:06 The first is $25 with 10,000 idioms; the second is $15 with 6,000 06:21:49 One of them is fiction. 06:23:59 I think the former sacrifices depth for quantity? 06:24:08 And is meant partly for ESL purposes. 06:26:13 > (10000 / 25, 6000 / 15) 06:26:14 (400.0,400.0) 06:26:17 :O 06:26:34 well played, Oxford 06:26:42 lol. 06:27:02 I have the Oxford Dictionary of Euphemisms, but I don't know how many euphemisms is in it, and I can't remember how much it cost. 06:27:18 kmc: at least rounding to 1-2 sigfigs 06:27:40 It says £8.99 RRP $14.95 USA $17.95 CAN in the back. 06:27:43 what? those are both even divisions... 06:27:55 oxford dictionary of dysphemisms 06:27:56 oh, you mean it's $24.99 or w/e 06:28:07 yes, and not exactly 10000, etc. 06:28:15 that is still coincidental... or is it 06:28:44 anyway important stuff: what does this channel think of the soliton model of action potentials!?? 06:28:54 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:29:16 I am looking to generally improve my idiom fluency 06:30:10 Reading Perlis again? 06:30:21 "Almost five thousand", in the newer edition. 06:30:29 > 5000 / 15 06:30:30 333.3333333333333 06:30:39 shachaf: well, not so much (and that's about proglang idioms anyway) 06:30:42 You get less euphemisms per dollar than you do idioms. 06:30:50 Gracenotes: What, the Shakespeare bit? 06:30:55 yes 06:31:19 although surely I've absorbed that into my ethos, as with all of the epigrams 06:31:33 actually, if you want a more direct motivation, watching talks given by SPJ. 06:31:42 that are posted on YouTube 06:33:00 -!- sacje has joined. 06:35:48 does he use weird idioms? 06:36:20 just very salient 06:36:35 appropriately, i don't know what you mean 06:36:45 DM has defined some esoteric sorting algorithms, none of which are suitable for general purpose applications, and some of which don't even work at all. Some of them result in a different multiset of output than the input is. However, it seems some of them may have a use in some specialized applications. 06:38:53 there's no real way to become more proficient with communicating things precisely, but for me, I often find phrases on the tip of my tongue when trying to do so (and occasionally botch them) 06:39:15 drinking scotch out of a mongodb mug again 06:40:10 livin the dream 06:40:33 listening to Röyksopp 06:40:37 "Considering that it is possible to procedurally create any string of binary digits and we can then translate that into letters, numbers, and any other given symbol that can be encoded, we can go create every possible string which would then reveal to us every possible statement/arrangement of symbols that might possibly be factual." 06:40:49 :bonghit noises: 06:41:09 why do companies have some weird compulsion to give out mugs/shirts/stickers/etc in the bay area? 06:41:22 because that is how you market to developers? 06:41:23 it's a cheap way to advertise 06:41:29 it's not just a bay area thing 06:42:14 no, but there is a strong third factor that causes companies to be here and companies to do such adverting 06:42:19 yeah they do that at every conference thing ever 06:42:48 interesting fact, as there are more sheep than people in new zealand, there are more google-branded pens than there are people in california 06:43:36 I suppose Dropsort and Abacus Sort might sometimes have some uses if the program needs the data modified in such way. Abacus sort may be used in mechanical applications, I suppose. Maybe it is possible to use dropsort in mechanical applications too. Intelligent Design Sort is one that just assumes the data is already sorted and doesn't change it. It might be useful in some applications too! 06:43:39 it might also be that I stopped paying attention to jobs at school right around when this kind of craze got into full swing 06:43:43 Bike: what do you think about the fact that the invention of digital information processing happened at about the same time as the discovery that living things on Earth are based on digital information processing 06:44:02 kmc: i don't understand the premise o_o 06:44:32 ..digital? 06:44:39 in organisms? 06:44:54 sure, base 4 06:44:54 I suppose any program that requires a sorted input and doesn't check may be considered a kind of "intelligent design sort". 06:45:14 DNA isn't really "digital" in the same way electromechanical computers are in any sense that is nontrivial 06:45:34 yes, I'm not entirely sure about DNA being the whole story 06:45:35 you can call it "discrete coding" or something 06:45:45 and clearly DNA is not the whole story about how living things work 06:46:04 but there are some really significant parallels 06:46:06 the 'whole story' in any meaningful information processing sense 06:46:33 mostly the fact that it's easy to make lossless copies of digital / discrete information 06:47:08 also the fact that portions of DNA code proteins that control DNA transcription and translation makes it more like a stored-program computer 06:47:18 although that's a more indirect analogy, and was discovered later 06:48:58 There is RNA and various other things too, but DNA is some things. 06:49:16 can't really argue with that 06:49:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:49:21 But someone did manage to almost make a "Hello World" program with DNA. 06:49:23 rip 06:49:34 yes, the discoveries seem to be more a result of increasingly rapidly improving technology in general, rather than academic confluence 06:49:55 maybe so 06:50:13 (The problem is it uses Q instead of O. The DNA which encodes O is usually a stop code; I do not know in what circumstances it isn't, or how to make it do such a thing) 06:50:58 a bit more interesting is the CNS, which is a bit analog. 06:51:11 -!- Bike has joined. 06:51:24 -!- intosh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:51:34 the coevolution of proteins and DNA/RNA is incredibly interesting, though 06:51:39 stupid computer. basically i'd say computers and genetics are only both based on "digital information processing" if you stretch that term into uselessness 06:51:45 usefulness. 06:51:53 i need that dictionary gracenotes 06:52:13 use... I... it would suck that's what i mean 06:52:20 maybe not processing but storage and reproduction at least 06:52:32 especially the bit about retroviruses 06:52:38 i think it's important not to overstate what DNA does 06:53:03 it's basically a thing that is easy to transmit to offspring without much degradation 06:53:09 yeah 06:53:13 that's what I've been saying... 06:53:24 life has many, many aspects that aren't "digital" like DNA is 06:53:30 sigh 06:53:35 well, with heavy degradation, just not of the important bits 06:53:37 sorry 06:53:47 you are a thief of joy 06:54:07 is that where my joy went? 06:54:13 as an example there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_oscillation which is neat 06:54:32 blame kmc for not putting it in your favorite terms 06:54:44 the thing itself, not the wikipedia article which is kind of terrible, oops 06:55:11 someone should make complexity classes for life 06:55:13 now let me check the logs so i don't annoy kmc more 06:55:29 "and clearly DNA is not the whole story about how living things work" whoopsie 06:56:00 ok, so, lemme latch on to "also the fact that portions of DNA code proteins that control DNA transcription and translation makes it more like a stored-program computer" a bit 06:56:41 the problem with this as i imagine you know is that beyond the central dogma, the expressed proteins don't really form a "program" per se 06:56:57 i mean, there's a reason turing back in the day expressed relations between enzymes with differential equations 06:57:44 like, it's a stored program computer in that you have a fairly immutable "source" that is expressed into an active "program" but that's about where the analogy ends, you know? 06:57:51 sure 06:58:20 like you've got these things http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_regulatory_network 06:58:35 which i'm not really sure how you'd phrase in a programmy way, though it could be interesting to do so 06:58:47 It's an interesting hypothethical assignment, as well, something like 'Here, I want an enzyme that helps catalyze this reaction, I'll allow you 2 ATP; I want the DNA code on my desk tomorrow' 06:59:03 heh 06:59:16 i guess to start with you'd have to design the protein 06:59:28 and then you have to come up with an amino acid chain that folds into it 06:59:28 'Also, inhibit it according to density of the product using pH' 06:59:35 that's probably NP complete, if not impossible :< 06:59:52 well, that's okay, I'll give you a few millenia; brute force it 07:00:00 sweet 07:00:24 oh as long as i'm on this that reminds me that i've been thinking of the CNS and stuff differently lately 07:00:24 why do i read #haskell logz 07:00:41 well getLine :: IO String contains a thunk that when evaluated reads characters of a line from standard input 07:00:47 kmc: in case you were missing out 07:00:47 it's the best channel 07:00:49 so close yet so far 07:01:03 shachaf: hey so did they fix the "non-allocating threads can't be preëmpted" bug in GHC yet 07:01:09 if you consider evolution as a kind of generic, idiotic (in that it doesn't know anything about the problem space) optimizer, you can consider the CNS (and also adaptive immunity~) as specialized fairly generic optimizers that work on somatic time instead ok nobody cares. 07:01:11 not sure 07:01:11 i was talking about this with some other Mozilla Research people today 07:01:24 Bike: yeah that's a neat view 07:01:27 rust threads are coöperative, right? 07:01:35 I think there's some of that in The Extended Phenotype 07:01:43 shachaf: yes and they are only preëmpted at syscalls, I think 07:01:45 is that the semantics or just the implementation? 07:01:49 There are certain parts of the immune system that have hyperfast genetic mutation 07:01:50 dunno 07:01:52 concurrent haskell allows either, after all 07:01:55 and has explicit yield 07:02:00 though no one really uses it?? 07:02:09 the semantics of Rust threads don't include shared mutable state, really 07:02:21 i think 9/10 times i've seen "thunk" in this channel it's been about getLine 07:02:26 i think I used explicit yield sometime 07:03:08 `pastelogs thunk 07:03:10 anyway I was wondering about the virtues of a scheduler like GHC's, that knows about the HLL abstract machine state, vs. just running your HLL compiled code on top of a ISA level coroutines library 07:03:19 i.e. do you save STG registers or do you save x86 registers 07:03:20 Bike: who'da thunk it (stupid thunkz joke) 07:03:25 nooooo 07:03:28 Bike: CNS is essentially a generalized learning architecture 07:03:32 is there a compelling reason not to do the latter, other than it being a ton of work to switch? 07:03:40 i think it would solve the preëmption problem 07:03:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28703 07:03:58 it is interesting. the more general it is, the more data it takes to learn, but the smarter it is. 07:04:08 Gracenotes: well, really you have to consider the peripheral nervous system too, i mean you can do conditioning in the "dumb" parts of the nervous system 07:04:13 also reflexes and all 07:04:38 How does it solve the preëmption problem? 07:04:48 yes. there is, so to speak, specialized learning cortex 07:05:22 much lower plasticity 07:05:23 also people are good at learning weird things like how to play Guitar Hero and not other weird things like group theory, in general 07:05:26 kmc: best cult imo 07:05:34 well it's easy enough for some watchdog to force a Haskell-evaluating thread to stop; the problem AIUI is that if you've stopped on some arbitrary instruction you can't recover the abstract machine state in order to context switch it 07:05:51 you can do that at allocations because allocations might garbage collect and the GC needs to know about roots anyway 07:06:23 Well, you can't really stop at arbitrary instructions anyway, can you? 07:06:26 « oerjan: so I don't have to do the Haskellian "thunks stub themselves out with {return value;} upon evaluation"?» seeing half of this conversation is really weird 07:06:53 shachaf: another OS thread can do it with ptrace(), or you use SIGALRM or something 07:07:03 Mid-thunk-update or something. At least it doesn't seem obvious that it's safe. 07:07:05 kmc: also sorry for being annoying >_> 07:07:08 how to async exceptions happen? checked in some common code (like unknown function application, e.g.?) 07:07:11 *do 07:07:15 Bike: i still <3 you 07:07:22 how is asyncc exception formed 07:07:33 how thread get suspanded 07:07:35 i feel less than threed 07:08:06 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:08:30 well, really, they need to do way instain throwTo, who kill her target, because target cannot frigth back 07:08:46 I will stop while I am well behind. 07:09:13 help 07:09:26 send pocky 07:09:43 I find stupid internet stuff funny 07:10:23 badger badger 07:10:45 for example: http://reddit.com/r/supershibe 07:10:53 what is with that damn dog 07:10:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:11:39 http://i.imgur.com/3UVbLfV.png me irl 07:12:19 http://i.imgur.com/VKT21lx.png 07:12:48 http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png is me 07:12:56 Gracenotes: is that like a line from something 07:13:17 I don't know, it's in the snowclone-meme ether 07:13:22 "to do way instain" rings a bell 07:13:51 it's from "how is babby formed" 07:14:43 i love snowclone-memes 07:14:44 I have met shachaf irl and can confirm he looks like that 07:14:45 they are so easy 07:14:58 shachaf: hasn't that been done before 07:15:13 Gracenotes: how does he do the transparency 07:15:21 mnoqy: yes "thats the point" 07:15:32 Bike: trade secret 07:15:43 is shachaf an apng 07:16:23 ape-ng 07:16:27 better than y'all regular apes 07:17:45 http://i.imgur.com/jY77iIKh.jpg 07:18:37 is that comic sans with drop shadow 07:18:39 imo beautiful 07:20:40 What is it with people claiming that things are great because they're vaguely similar to things named after category theory without actually understanding what they're talking about? 07:21:08 such as? 07:21:19 People on Internetwebsites. 07:21:24 I love how clear-looking C++ functors make my code look? 07:21:30 I should quit reading Internetwebsites. 07:22:03 I have a feeling Gracenotes was terribly bored during bacat today. 07:22:27 it's uh, assocation bias or something, isn't it 07:22:32 I did get tired for a bit of it, because of general sleep deprivation 07:22:50 Doing bookexercises is admittedly not the most exciting thing... 07:22:54 Maybe I should've done some. 07:22:55 I might have gotten more out of it if did the exercises, though 07:23:00 "this thing [category theory] is cool, so this other related thing [ProFunctorsX Enterprise Edition] is cool" 07:23:29 also nobody understands what anybody is talking about ever, fyi 07:23:52 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 07:25:22 so I will be attending maybe ICFP, but perhaps rather just the Haskell bits, but maybe everything 07:26:17 I will learn about the best profunctor to apply in my enterprise coding 07:26:23 Gracenotes: You will? 07:26:45 I plan on it, basically 07:26:50 Should I attend? 07:27:06 Perhaps 07:27:34 look at the list of projects here: http://www.systemsx.ch/projects/research-technology-and-development-projects/ they're practically all WhateverX 07:27:36 I think I would enjoy it based on watching lots of Haskell talks on the internet primarily 07:27:49 PhosphoNetX 07:28:00 although enjoyment may be selection bias related 07:28:07 How much does attending ICFP cost, anyway? 07:28:19 Oh, there's a PDF. 07:28:28 this much http://regmaster3.com/2013conf/ICFP13/register.pdf 07:28:29 yes 07:29:01 quite a bit... they have to rent out the space and provide free food to attendees 07:29:04 so not actually free food 07:29:10 cofree food 07:29:16 (in that you pay for it) 07:29:25 that site has a typo in its search result 07:30:18 part of the inflation is because attendees don't pay for it out of pocket, but rather often by their institution. 07:30:21 if they have one 07:31:05 Can you email them and tell them your institution isn't paying for it and so they should give you a discount? 07:31:07 well, usually only if they're presenting, for academics at least, or it's very obviously work-related 07:31:14 alt. can your institution pay for it? 07:31:23 you can find an institution to pay for you 07:31:27 maybe 07:31:57 you can print out a name badge and wear it 07:32:15 I dunno 07:35:47 anyway, I really have no idea how this stuff works 07:35:55 just hearsay 07:55:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:03:49 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:14:57 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:58:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:09:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:11:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 10:22:00 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 10:22:00 -!- ggherdov has joined. 10:22:00 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 10:22:00 -!- ggherdov has joined. 10:24:24 -!- carado has joined. 10:29:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:40:05 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:43:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:07:43 well played, Oxford <-- are you saying they get paid by number of words? 11:11:36 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:11:53 ask kmc drinking scotch out of a mongodb mug again <-- is it a humongous mug twh 11:16:05 wat 11:16:10 @ask kmc drinking scotch out of a mongodb mug again <-- is it a humongous mug twh 11:16:10 Consider it noted. 11:19:58 -!- yorick has joined. 11:23:47 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:26:01 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:26:01 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 11:26:01 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:28:41 It is a WEBSCALE mug. 11:28:59 ooh 11:50:27 -!- tertu has joined. 12:07:09 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:33:16 -!- intosh has joined. 12:47:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 13:04:29 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:20:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:36:04 -!- tertu has joined. 13:59:26 -!- `0x00 has joined. 13:59:54 * `0x00 licks ion up the face for no particular reason 14:11:50 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:19:21 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:40:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:58:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:00:37 -!- Bike has joined. 15:14:37 -!- conehead has joined. 15:21:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:21:52 -!- heroux has joined. 15:27:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:31:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:35:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:11:24 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:12:22 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:22:03 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 16:24:03 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:31:29 "This aptitude does not have Super Cow Powers." sounds like it's trying to be funny... I wonder how that's funny 16:31:38 olsner: apt-get moo 16:32:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptitude_(software)#Easter_egg I think ? 16:32:20 also last line of apt-get help 16:32:21 ols-ner moo 16:32:51 sha-haf moo 16:35:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:36:09 hmm, there it is... and now that I think about it, I never did figure out what the difference between apt-get and aptitude is 16:38:34 aptitude is another interface basically 16:38:43 different features and dependency resolution 16:56:50 http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1ijr21/til_when_coming_to_power_in_january_1933_the_nazi/cb58ov6 16:56:54 i... reddit 16:57:33 (pity it wasn't in /r/bitcoin, it's a perfect MEANWHILE IN) 16:58:54 Meanwhile in 1933 17:02:30 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:25:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:04:43 Fact: Any sentence starting with "Fact:" is probably bogus 18:05:04 @tell oerjan no, ordinary size 18:05:04 Consider it noted. 18:05:41 fun fact 0 = 1 18:06:28 . 18:07:15 . 18:07:38 Proof: crush. Qed. 18:08:13 is shachaf never going to give the second line again 18:08:24 sry 18:08:28 that line is for you to give 18:11:08 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:12:54 -!- Bike has joined. 18:15:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:23:57 It is, indeed, quite "fun" that the factorial of 0 is 1. 18:24:16 fizzie doesn't know the second line? 18:24:18 shachaf: we need the second line. 18:24:23 elliott: Go for it. 18:24:26 nope. 18:24:31 I don't know the second line. 18:24:33 fizzie: "fun" is SML for a function definition. 18:24:36 `pastlog shachaf.*fact.*= 18:24:45 2013-03-27.txt:00:19:48: | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 18:24:53 shachaf: I was thinking it'd be something like that. 18:24:53 `thanks HackEgo 18:24:55 Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo. 18:25:01 fizzie: http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/cus/pl/ctm_aml_01.html 18:25:15 you forgot the ; 18:25:31 Maybe that's because I don't know SML. 18:25:32 hmm, I guess it's actually a separator, not a terminato 18:25:33 r 18:25:35 The second line was your job. 18:29:04 Do you have some ideas about a alternate syntax for 6502 assembly codes? I have had the idea too, but I wasn't complete. 18:29:08 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:43:51 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:53:09 -!- sacje has joined. 18:58:17 -!- raineys has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:04:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:04:29 The controls I prefer on a PC platform game is left and right shift keys to move, space bar to jump, and ZXCVBNM,./ to shoot. This is a bit unusual, but it is what I prefer. Do you have preferences about it? 19:14:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:15:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:18:24 wasd 4 lyfe 19:19:17 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:24:15 that's a lot of shooting keys 19:24:20 do they all shoot the same thing 19:24:35 or are you running around holding 9 different guns 19:26:22 I know I am 19:26:34 it's the american way. 19:26:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:32:49 @tell kmc I sense a great lost opportunity 19:32:49 Consider it noted. 19:35:51 @messages 19:48:45 Okay, I am really bad at watching sad movies 19:48:50 I'm crying my eyes out at Batman 19:49:12 isn't that the point 19:49:16 of sad movies 19:49:27 that sounds like *good* at watching them? 19:49:39 I like crying at movies at least, it'd be less fun if I didn't 19:50:01 kmc: They all do the same thing. 19:50:42 imo crying is good but crying at movies is bad because the manipulation etc. is usually so obvious 19:50:47 and by bad i mean i don't like it so much 19:50:51 Pharaoh's Tomb and Arctic Adventure use a superset of these keys; the arrows keys can also be used to move and the F key also shoots. In addition, it can be configured to use the CTRL and ALT keys to move left/right (you can switch which one is left and which is right). 19:51:14 shachaf: that reminds me, what's with restaurants and shops that play music 19:51:26 here while you're waiting in line for a burger maybe you'd like to hear a song about extreme emotional trauma 19:51:36 shachaf: Bad is that you are crying and cannot listen to movie or other audience can. 19:52:52 imo crying at books is better than crying at movies #snobz 19:53:35 shachaf: Crying at books is bad too you might get the pages wet. 19:54:32 not if you read ebooks 19:55:47 But then you will get the display wet. 19:56:33 the display can take it! it's a manly display 19:56:53 in my experience women are at least as waterproof as men 19:57:23 manly waterproofing 19:58:02 going around spraying people with buckets of water to judge relative waterproofness 20:01:10 elliott: http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2008/267/c/c/PLATYBELODON_by_Sk00tie.jpg 20:01:42 thanks. 20:02:17 np 20:05:57 why 20:08:37 kmc: Not when you have bulgarian cheese! 20:08:40 And/or superpowers. 20:09:36 this is so confusing shachaf 20:09:53 what superpowers does bulgarian cheese man or woman have 20:12:00 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:15:13 -!- sacje has joined. 20:22:46 kmc: I have an Internet connection that corrupts a lot of packets. 20:22:55 How can I download things reasonably? 20:22:58 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:23:08 get a better internet connection, hth 20:23:13 For example I'm trying to apt-get this 0.5MB file. 20:23:17 It keeps failing. 20:23:24 maybe BitTorrent over UDP 20:23:29 or one of the other UDP-based file transfer thingies 20:23:33 that doesn't try to send the file in order 20:28:33 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:31:50 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:33:29 -!- `0x00 has quit (Quit: like a gypsy an shit. blaQ_MAMBAR). 20:36:46 -!- raineys has joined. 20:49:14 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:50:23 -!- sacje has quit (Excess Flood). 20:50:54 -!- sacje has joined. 20:57:26 Bike: attn http://www.theonion.com/articles/fbi-offering-1-million-reward-for-any-information,33157/ 20:58:22 their real motivation must be trying to improve their subterfuge 20:58:32 after all, the who's really good at dishonesty? a cheetah 21:01:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:12:43 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:24:24 -!- intosh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:26:30 https://github.com/mozilla/rust/blob/master/src/rt/rust_debug.h#L23-L27 21:28:05 signal(SIGTRAP, SIG_IGN) what does that do? isn't signal assigning a function pointer? 21:28:10 like, is SIG_IGN a function? 21:28:40 It's a Special Value. 21:28:59 it says... it should be ignored...? 21:29:07 what happens if you raise a signal that should be ignored o_O 21:29:18 It should get ignored. 21:29:28 It tends to break in a debugger, though; that might be what it's about. 21:29:34 (Also possibly under other circumstances?) 21:33:34 -!- Bike has joined. 21:35:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:43:09 Is my bio in CthulhuMUD any good? It seems like really strange compared to everything else. 21:43:28 zzo38: How should I know? I haven't seen it. 21:44:18 JfRh 21:44:33 JfRh 21:45:02 http://sprunge.us/JfRh 21:45:23 I think the line wrapping is no good in this file, for one thing. 21:45:32 this breakpoint doesn't seem very awesome 21:46:19 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:46:24 Bike: What breakpoint? 21:46:38 the one kmc linked 21:46:47 -!- sacje has joined. 21:47:32 Did I make any spelling mistakes other than the one I have already corrected? 21:48:24 "the male mi-go migo scientist"? 21:48:42 also what's with the comma in Gknqwvonqtunkznbcvjbaklsrgjhqpwetypqwrkzbxncv,bakdlgqweprthpahdskznxvkljqthw 21:48:43 I have made a breakpoint in VisualBoyAdvance with something like that you simply get a infinite loop 21:49:22 Bike: The first three lines are typed by the computer; I asked why it says "the male mi-go migo scientist" with the word twice and inconsistent hyphenation; they don't know why either. 21:49:35 I think on the whole I enjoyed Batman Begins 21:49:43 Maybe I should remove the comma, I suppose, though. 21:51:06 But I cannot change the line that says "the male mi-go migo scientist". The reason it is repeated is because one is a profession, but I don't know why it is inconsistent. Probably it would improve if they fix it to add a flag to a profession that tells it to not be repeated. 21:51:11 But that isn't up to me. 21:51:20 The third line and below is the text I typed in. 21:51:28 I mean, below the third line. 21:51:35 (The third line is made by the computer.) 21:52:41 "Gknqwvonqtunkznbcvjbaklsrgjhqpwetypqwrkzbxncv,bakdlgqweprthpahdskznxvkljqthw" looks like a spelling mistake to me. 21:53:09 shachaf: Yes it is; the comma is wrong. 21:53:27 Also the rest of it. 21:53:33 it's a proper noun! 21:53:51 Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch 21:55:27 zzo38: It says "O no", but it means "Oh no". 21:55:33 Or maybe "Oh, no". 21:56:24 Does that mean I put the comma in the wrong sentence? 21:56:40 no, it means you used "O" which does not mean the same thing as "Oh" 21:56:51 and i doubt you're trying to address No. 21:57:18 O Bike 21:57:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:59:37 Maybe I am trying to address Yes. 21:59:48 then you should put "O yes" 21:59:51 O Yes rather 22:00:12 I didn't say I am trying to address Yes; I said maybe I am. Actually I am not. 22:00:21 D: 22:00:34 Oh, you sure got Bike. 22:00:41 Bike: http://arxiv.org/abs/1303.5787 http://arxiv.org/abs/1306.3960 22:01:02 fiora these look scary 22:01:34 summary of the first: the r-process may occur in ejecta from neutron star collisions, depending on the masses of the stars, the impact, the equation of state, etc, and this will have a very measurable effect on the afterglow spectrum and can be detected 22:01:39 the second: we found one!1! 22:01:54 Is there anything else good or no good about what I wrote? 22:03:47 what's an r-process 22:04:56 rapid neutron capture process, so like, when you have iron atoms in a supernova 22:05:10 and the supernova neutron flux causes atoms to capture many many many neutrons before they have a chance to decay 22:05:20 because there's just so many neutrons 22:05:20 It sounds like an abb. for a random process. 22:05:24 rapid 22:05:49 It's very irritating when you have a slow connection that web standard/browser/whatever says that you can't see the page until things have finished loading. 22:06:26 Such that a page stays un-readable for minutes, but as soon as I, say, get disconnected, all the text show up immediately. It was there all along, but waiting for things to load. 22:06:33 oh, huh, it's more than just that 22:06:36 A