00:06:46 https://skillsmatter.com/custom/images/tempbannerhaskell-exchange-670x180px.gif what a good picture 00:06:57 xtreme haskell xchange 00:07:20 that banner looks like an anime convention ad O_O 00:08:21 elliott, Fiora: http://joshreads.tumblr.com/post/58349908871/ 00:08:50 haskell is the most anime of programming languages 00:09:02 Bike: haha 00:09:29 Bike: oh gosh 00:11:31 Bike: good 00:12:28 http://www.theawl.com/2013/08/i-may-not-harm-jeff-bezos in related news. 00:14:28 It's Okay To Feel Bad / Jeff Bezos' Robot Butler Tells All / Dale Cooper: Barthes, Bodies, Porn / Will Be Humiliated For Attention / Stoya: Sex, Porn, Feminism, Kitties / Get It Now: The Awl's Weekend Companion 00:14:52 Patricia Lockwood, "Rape Joke".. what the heck sort of news site is this 00:15:06 what kind of person reads news sites nowadays 00:15:12 i just get everything """"aggregated""" 00:18:09 Bike: http://xxx.lanl.gov/pdf/astro-ph/0302075.pdf ignoring the total rest of this paper, for some reason the title makes me giggle 00:18:40 is this porn 00:18:55 los alamos government porn distributor 00:19:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:19:07 oh, arxiv. how unfun 00:19:19 that's a very... straightforward title. 00:19:32 "more mind-numblingly large celestial objects made of irregular materials, i guess" 00:20:40 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:22:29 wow, the acronyms "third dredge-up (3DUP)" 00:23:30 i've been reading psychology. you have no idea how sick i am of initialisms 00:23:43 we're talking "potential task (PT)" here 00:23:50 ... what XD 00:24:17 they're almost as bad as the military 00:31:04 "partial mixing of protons (PMP)" 00:31:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:47:42 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:57:11 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:57:58 "that banner looks like an anime convention ad" wow... yes it does 01:01:07 -!- ^v has joined. 01:06:57 http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-broke-privacy-rules-thousands-of-times-per-year-audit-finds/2013/08/15/3310e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_print.html "One in 10 incidents is attributed to a typographical error in which an analyst enters an incorrect query and retrieves data about U.S phone calls or e-mails." 01:14:21 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:15:10 i can believe that, really 01:16:47 -!- augur has joined. 01:21:18 http://www.cessna.com/citation/longitude 01:21:45 i like how this is a webpage designed with the intention of getting you to buy a plane 01:22:16 "Generous in size, extravagant in spaciousness" 01:23:10 "When science becomes art, anything is possible" 01:23:29 "fuck, i can't think of another way of wording 'it's really big', better reach for the thesaurus" 01:23:42 kmc, i won't lie, i want one now 01:23:43 yupppp 01:23:56 -!- carado__ has joined. 01:24:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:27:39 "Piloting the Longitude has been simplified to the level of smartphone or ATM operation" 01:27:53 that is terrifying 01:27:56 that they would even write that 01:28:16 -!- carado__ has quit (Client Quit). 01:28:29 that just makes me want one even more 01:28:34 http://www.cessna.com/~/media/Images/Aircraft/citation/longitude/infographics/img-citat-specs-infograp-long.ashx 01:28:41 i mean look! you could go to like... 01:28:42 ghan 01:28:43 a 01:28:59 and take 8 friends! 01:29:08 7 friends unless you are friends with the pilot 01:29:14 why is their example airport Sheffield? 01:29:17 who wouldn't be friends with a pilot 01:29:37 there's also http://www.cessna.com/single-engine/skyhawk 01:29:59 which i wasn't going to link but then i realised that the section titled "THE GATEKEEPER OF AVIATION EXCELLENCE" was actually referring to the doors 01:32:58 Range: 4000 nanometers? 01:33:42 Max crusing speed: 490 kilotonneattoseconds? 01:33:56 i 01:35:45 -!- carado has joined. 01:35:52 kmc: i have this vague memory of seeing a comment that this haskell banner was part of some larger conference or something which chose anime style that year 01:36:09 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_172#Operational_history okay, this is amazing and insane 01:36:53 i feel like there's an easier way to refuel in the air 01:37:14 but doesn't everyone refuel by hovering next to a car? 01:37:48 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:39:12 that is the best 01:39:28 not just fuel but also food and water 01:39:37 and engine oil 01:40:14 " Early in the flight, the engine-driven electric generator failed. A Champion wind-driven generator (turned by a small propeller) was hoisted aboard, taped to the wing support strut, and plugged into the cigarette lighter socket; it served as the aircraft's source of electricity for the rest of the flight. " 01:41:46 it's a little weird that the "Operational history" section is entirely about that one flight 01:41:56 since this is the article about the most produced aircraft in history 01:42:03 over 43,000 01:42:21 maybe it's to deflect your attention from the fact that it's a completely inadequate operational history 01:50:23 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:52:24 <^v> what operational history 01:52:33 <^v> i dont see anything that is operational 01:53:52 what about denotational history 02:09:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:14:19 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:17:18 -!- carado has joined. 02:19:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:25:29 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:29:03 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:29:07 -!- impomatic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:02:16 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:14:47 -!- augur has changed nick to 45PABFR8T. 03:14:56 -!- 45PABFR8T has changed nick to augur. 03:16:25 ion: Yay, I unlocked the Zoltan Cruiser. 03:19:49 whee 03:19:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:20:05 -!- Bike has joined. 03:27:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 03:28:30 -!- Bike has joined. 03:33:37 ion: Hmm, it doesn't seem so great. 03:33:54 That's what I get for the whole peace thing, I suppose. 03:37:53 One of the Zoltan cruisers is rather nice IIRC 03:38:08 -!- noooodl has joined. 03:38:44 -!- noooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:39:34 -!- noooodl has joined. 03:42:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:47:21 -!- CADD has joined. 03:54:10 -!- noooodl has quit (Quit: noooodl). 03:59:53 the best part of non-English-subtitled English language musical comedy is the explanation of puns in parentheses. 04:00:20 which, for romance languages, are somewhat intelligible for exclusive anglophones. 04:05:55 i don't get why you'd explain puns in translation notes. nobody's going to laugh. 04:06:14 puns aren't for laughing they're for groaning 04:06:38 homegroan puns 04:06:51 im sure at least one person has laughed thanks to the translation 04:07:03 shachaf: yeah like that 04:07:23 imho, the printing press killed puns 04:07:41 they used to be a very high form of humor, a show of intelligence. 04:07:42 imo, fun puns do not exist. 04:08:08 i thought wit was higher? 04:08:18 they were used in many contexts, not just jokes: speeches, legal proceedings, etc. 04:08:35 imo, wbuna xvivavrzv do not exist 04:08:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:08:50 wit is to do with the source of your humor, assuming it's good. 04:09:07 `r13 wbuna xvivavrzv 04:09:08 Imo, nontrivial zeros of the Riemann zeta function that do not lie on the critical line don't exist. Ymmv. 04:09:35 * oerjan gently prods HackEgo 04:09:38 No output. 04:09:45 `r13 wbuna xvivavrzv 04:09:51 oerjan: it's an omen hth 04:10:08 Jub gur urpx vf Wbuna Xvivavrzv? 04:10:08 admittedly it might simply be because the command is wrong 04:10:11 `echo hi 04:10:13 hi 04:10:16 No output. 04:10:21 `which r13 04:10:22 /hackenv/bin/r13 04:10:28 @yarr 13 04:10:29 Har de har har! 04:10:39 eqee 04:10:44 @rot13 04:10:44 Unknown command, try @list 04:10:45 `run echo wbuna xvivavrzv | r13 04:10:46 johan kiviniemi 04:11:09 anticlimactic 04:11:37 rot13ing this is nagvpyvznpgvp 04:12:16 `which rot13 04:12:17 /hackenv/bin/rot13 04:12:30 `rot13 Jub gur urpx vf Wbuna Xvivavrzv? 04:12:31 Who the heck is Johan Kiviniemi? 04:13:20 `rot13 ymmv 04:13:21 lzzi 04:14:31 Xraagb wnyr̀e lbeh cnqre. 04:14:53 `rot13 Xraagb wnyr̀e lbeh cnqre. 04:14:55 Kennto jalèr yoru pader. 04:14:58 anyway, you may be interested to know that the groan is a recent phenomenon (last century or so) 04:15:33 It looks like some type of language. Reminds me of... Irish, maybe? Though only vaguely. 04:15:59 "Yoru pader" sounds kind of like English. Or maybe "pader" is from Latin. 04:16:12 also, interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groans_of_the_Britons 04:16:39 the british isles have a quite interesting history in roman times. 04:16:41 And "kennto"... doesn't that have sort of a... I'm not sure what, exactly. A Celtic feel or something? Or British, or what. 04:16:49 "Jalèr" looks like French, though. 04:16:51 nobody likes ancient british history :( 04:16:53 then there were kings and stuff... boring, you know... 04:17:26 tswett: are you trying to analyze what _you_ wrote? 04:17:36 oerjan: yeah! What language is this? 04:18:07 It looks like it's probably a European language, doesn't it? Like, I definitely don't think I'd say it looks like any particular non-European language. 04:18:36 I mean, it doesn't look entirely unlike Vietnamese, from the very very little I know of Vietnamese. 04:18:41 it's like, you don't know what you yourself wrote, like? 04:18:53 I know exactly what it means; I'm just pretending I don't. 04:19:33 "Yoru pader" just really sounds a lot like "your father". Maybe it's some weird variant of English or something. Like English turned into... something else. 04:19:59 O KAY 04:20:50 Google Translate says that "kennto" looks like Finnish and "jalèr" looks like Spanish. 04:21:38 The sentence *kind* of looks like it could be Finnish. Like, it doesn't use any letters not used in Finnish, apart from è, does it? But it doesn't actually look like Finnish at all. 04:21:51 it's pretty impressive that `rot13 is i18n, actually. 04:22:32 Gracenotes: that it successfully converted r̀ to è? I'm not that impressed; that's just an ASCII English letter followed by a combining diacritic. 04:24:11 oh, it's not its own unicode character 04:24:39 :/ hm, my irssi doesn't like your characters 04:25:29 "The similarities between man and computer cannot be ignored, computers are essentially biological systems with a transistor." why do i do this to myself, help 04:26:08 what 04:26:12 -!- sub_space has joined. 04:26:14 where 04:26:27 * sub_space licks ion - no particular reason 04:26:32 the land of the dead 04:26:35 `pastelogs 0x00.me 04:26:43 elliott: muhahahha 04:27:08 ion: do you know this person? giving that this isn't the first time 04:27:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29853 04:27:46 eh 04:27:48 elliott: we are friends from the n(th) dimension. 04:28:00 ion: tell elliott 04:28:17 sub_space: hey why is 0x00.me an uncredited comic in shitty jpg form. 04:29:03 Bike: zoidberg 04:29:20 ok well I'm literally sick of you already. 04:29:22 it's pretty rude to use someone's art without crediting them. 04:29:25 ;[ 04:29:43 * sub_space holds elliott's hair 04:30:00 ion: i am pretty sure elliott will ban sub_space if you don't confirm you know him - nah it won't help anyway. 04:30:12 who cares? 04:30:17 plz cease with the unsolicited physical contact 04:30:20 me 04:30:29 `relcome sub_space 04:30:31 sub_space: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:30:34 tnx mnoqy 04:30:39 :-* 04:31:04 i like the comic tho 04:31:12 actually if ion said he knows you and doesn't mind you joining just to lick you twice then I would be ok but everything you have said since has progressively decreased my confidence in you 04:31:13 where's lambdabot:?: :( 04:31:24 not here 04:31:34 lambdabot is right here... 04:31:43 kmc: yeah, it's from a webcomic called subnormality. 04:32:00 it seems a bit what's the word 04:32:02 yeah 04:32:05 subnormality is cool 04:32:06 i;ll leave it at that 04:32:13 mnoqy: subnormal? 04:32:20 no not that word 04:32:21 subnormality is fantastic 04:32:36 (a lot of the time) 04:33:11 > putStrLn "I'm here" 04:33:12 04:35:04 :D 04:37:09 sub_space: what are your intentions as to your presence in this channel 04:37:32 elliott: hrm.. that's deep. 04:38:20 remember when i was new and the first thing i got asked is what my business here was? how times have changed 04:38:32 actually it simplifies down to "do you intend to do anything but join and lick ion and then be alternately vague or creepy in response to any questions" 04:38:41 i got the same question too.. ;) 04:38:43 which is pretty shallow, as questions go 04:38:51 lol 04:39:02 mnoqy: what _is_ your business here, anyway 04:39:17 i think i dodged the question back then too 04:39:27 said something like my business is usually idling 04:39:28 i think everyone does.. 04:39:45 elliott: yes, but time will tell. i do not intent to intentionally create any friction between users. 04:39:54 indend * 04:39:59 :D 04:40:11 good correction imo 04:42:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:44:17 elliott: why do you use anything but' 04:44:28 with 'and then' 04:44:30 ? 04:46:34 sub_space: how many fingers am i holding up? 04:49:16 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:49:29 oerjan: (n-m) 04:49:48 fingers 04:50:00 of type fingers 04:50:19 in universe hand 04:50:27 i see you are covering all bases 04:50:27 for each subset of universe 04:51:30 fungot: do you have any comment on the issue? 04:51:30 oerjan: is something wrong? want me to leave? i don't wanna hear it! c'mon, let's go and see the headlines in the middle of nowhere? 04:51:45 fungot: no, no! 04:51:45 oerjan: but, i'm expecting a good long look at the two levers up and the planet... i don't know what time it wasn't that difficult. 04:53:04 love me. love me. just say that you love me. 04:56:19 fungot: you do the loving bit, you're better at it than me. 04:56:20 oerjan: there he is literally miles away from the mako reactor countinues to suck up all the townspeople? no way we could see each other? 04:56:55 fungot: well i cannot see him either. 04:56:56 oerjan: well, have special powers to their fullest... there goes the pillar, right? i hope he doesn't get hurt. 04:59:05 fungot: speak earn your treats. 04:59:05 sub_space: hey? aren't i the same ' ol me. my feelings. 04:59:28 fungot: speak | earn your treats. (*) 04:59:28 sub_space: dyne didn't care who anyone was...... we will, and put him to say this to you? 05:00:43 i suppose. if it's absolutely necessary and can not be avoided by assuming an inverse relationship 05:00:59 * sub_space dances with fungot 05:01:00 sub_space: where did i make a drink just as long as we did it! i'm comin' with me! 05:01:50 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:03:25 fungot: why m? 05:03:26 sub_space: remember, the huge materia. this part is broken.... 05:03:29 -!- ^v has joined. 05:04:20 help what s going on 05:04:25 bad 05:04:25 is this channel under attack 05:04:28 yes 05:04:30 ;[ 05:04:32 <^v> o_o 05:04:34 hey shachaf did you see the thing 05:04:38 the tonight thing 05:04:39 * ^v sould have joined erlier 05:04:42 how do i fix it 05:04:43 hi 05:04:45 mnoqy: no!! 05:04:48 did you list the list 05:04:50 it's good i recommend seeing it 05:04:57 imo list the list 05:05:01 `list 05:05:05 no 05:05:05 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 05:05:07 it's smlist 05:05:20 do it mnoqy 05:05:28 `smlist 05:05:29 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 05:05:30 like that?? 05:05:32 yay 05:05:44 for """"extra credit' you can give a number 05:05:52 but no need 05:06:36 oh 05:06:44 it's like a sequel of the last one 05:06:47 good 05:06:59 thanks for the recommnoqydation 05:14:02 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:14:18 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:17:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:17:55 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:18:02 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:18:40 -!- sacje has joined. 05:24:05 kmc: I'm annoyed by the #haskell sentiment that if something is hard to do in Haskell then it isn't worth doing. 05:24:16 (Hard in Haskell and easy in another language.) 05:25:43 shachaf: what? no mutable variables? how will i ever be able to do anything?! 05:25:44 i need a teacher. 05:26:02 shachaf: funny that in most cases the haskell code is shorter and easier to read.. :) 05:26:06 elliott: teach me. 05:26:12 elliott: i will give you .. things 05:26:26 sub_space: thats very vague... 05:27:05 CADD: so? 05:27:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nit). 05:27:23 sub_space: teach... what? 05:28:08 hrm. 05:28:45 CADD: how to appreciate 05:28:58 that teaching plz. 05:29:23 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 05:29:27 sub_space: that was a sentence fragment.. please speak in proper sentences.. 05:29:29 wb Bike 05:31:13 CADD: please explain to elliott that I would like to present an opportunity to exchange 'things' for lessons in appreciation. 05:31:43 sub_space: you can do it yourself. elaborate on "things"// 05:33:33 CADD: i can but i would like to share because it makes me feel alive. things - flowpaths from which one may benefit 05:33:49 alive for alive. 05:34:27 things:// 05:35:00 hehe things://idkwhatimdoing.blogspot.com 05:35:17 new ip protocol. i call dibs 05:35:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_uFIb3pXqg 05:36:14 has anyone figured out how to shake hands with the sun? 05:36:27 (speaking of protocols and all that shit) 05:50:12 <^v> it requires a SHA65536 implementation 05:51:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:53:06 ^v: and LOLCODE instead of javascript 05:54:03 is that like 4096-bit XAES 05:56:24 it's useful to have hash functions with big outputs (e.g. for RSASSA-PSS signatures) but usually one concatenates SHA(0 || message), SHA(1 || message), SHA(2 || message), etc. until one has enough bits 05:56:28 i think 05:57:13 what is the width of enough_bits ? 05:57:22 isn't xaes 4048-bit 05:57:52 kmc: Is that what one actually does? I've never heard of it. 05:57:58 sub_space: you need a value the same size as the RSA modulus, so probably 2048 or 4096 bits 05:58:20 kmc: but everyone is using ecc :'( 05:58:24 * sub_space hates being so poor 06:01:21 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:01:55 -!- Bike has joined. 06:04:54 shachaf: uh look at the wikipedia page on Full Domain Hashing and then read the paper by Rogaway (sorry, I'm on a computer which sucks at copy-paste) 06:05:40 existentially unforgeable under adaptive chosen-message attacks 06:05:56 FDH is the obvious (?) thing where you hash your document to a value y with as many bits as n, and then signature = y^d mod n 06:06:31 it has a security proof (which already puts it ahead of PKCS#1 v1.5) but it's not as good as the security theorem for PSS, which is a more complicated scheme that involves randomness 06:15:07 -!- augur has joined. 06:15:31 interesting that there's an anti-Lang Lang backlash now 06:15:45 or it's slightly more visible 06:18:32 what's that 06:20:24 Lang_Lang_(pianist)? 06:21:28 lang lang? 06:22:00 Oh, http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/woof.html is the program I was looking for a while ago. 06:25:11 shachaf: YAY! 06:28:24 sub_space: What are you doing here? 06:30:56 shachaf: eating 06:31:00 shachaf: u? 06:31:08 -!- sub_space has changed nick to consume. 06:35:38 si, piano player 06:36:30 nice nice 06:36:32 very nice 06:37:44 ug, microsoft, won't you stop paying people to promote your products without disclosing it? it's creeping us out. 06:38:21 06:38:39 * consume needs to replenish energy 06:39:09 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:41:33 -!- consume has left ("my people go let "). 06:44:07 07:02:27 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 07:07:14 -!- scoofy has joined. 07:09:46 "Google Street View driver detained by villagers in Thailand on suspicion of spying" well 07:11:16 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 07:55:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:06:43 -!- shachaf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:06:54 -!- shachaf has joined. 08:24:17 -!- pntkl has joined. 08:49:42 -!- pntkl has left. 08:57:09 Man, I really want to learn knot theory for some bizarre reason 09:14:30 That's probably knot a good idea. 09:20:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:33:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:57:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:24:37 I am now the proud and mildly confused owner of a Raspberry Pi computer 10:25:11 Is there a name for RPi owners? Like, you know, there's bronies and so on. 10:25:33 Perhaps "raspies". 10:26:08 "raspy: Slutty. Has a lot of sex." (Urban Dictionary) 10:26:11 Well, perhaps not. 10:31:02 I have no way to connect it to a display, though 10:31:56 it's a curse, man 10:31:58 a curse 10:32:23 at best you use it as a media centre 10:35:58 It doesn't really need a display. 10:36:30 I don't think the Pi is a terribly good media box, either. 10:37:51 sure, but you can never think of a better use 10:39:17 I've had one use already, and I've only had it less than a year. That's not such a bad hit rate. 10:43:29 I'd probably be able to think of more uses if I had a HDMI cable 10:49:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:50:53 That sounds quite unlikely. 10:52:07 Hi 10:52:12 Hi, AnotherTest 10:55:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 10:56:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:57:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:59:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 10:59:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:07:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 11:07:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:09:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 11:30:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:34:56 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:36:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:45:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:45:31 -!- yorick has joined. 11:49:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:59:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:44:20 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:11:21 Is there any metric for multiplicative groups modulo n? Can such a metric exist? 13:11:45 -!- carado has joined. 13:12:05 -!- boily has joined. 13:12:12 good /dev/pts morning! 13:12:52 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:13:09 helloily 13:13:29 Anothello. 13:13:54 Oh you just missed the question 13:13:56 Is there any metric for multiplicative groups modulo n? Can such a metric exist? 13:14:10 ~duck metrick 13:14:10 --- No relevant information 13:14:12 ~duck metric 13:14:13 metric definition: '''plural''' a part of prosody that deals with metrical structure. 13:14:19 ~duck modulo 13:14:19 modulo definition: with respect to a modulus of. 13:14:41 AnotherTest: only if you can abstract poetry from the group, it seems... 13:14:49 Metricks are the metrics used in magick. 13:15:12 otherwise, my math is too rusty to understand that question properly without having had my first coffee injection of the day. 13:15:57 fizzie: sckary. 13:19:27 d(x,x) = 0; d(x,y) = 1 13:21:16 Well... and preferably not the discrete one 13:22:38 d(x,y) = |x-y| 13:23:43 ok my question wasn't right 13:24:34 is the concept of distance generalisable to matrices? 13:24:36 You found the answer. 13:27:36 Jafet: I was actually trying to say: g^i = a mod n and g^j = b mod n; can you have a metric so that d(i, j) = d(a, b) 13:28:02 or can you say have an operation < so that i < j => a < b 13:28:44 boily: sure, there are metrics on linear operators 13:29:24 AnotherTest: is that for any g 13:29:31 Bike: oh. 13:30:23 Bike: if that is possible, yes 13:30:43 like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operator_norm 13:32:11 AnotherTest: well, consider g = 1, for a start 13:32:23 * boily is squicked and fascinated by the perversity and elegance of an operator norm 13:32:35 Bike: well g = 1 isn't very interesting due to the fact that all the elements will be 1 13:32:40 yes. 13:32:44 so forall g isn't going to work. 13:32:52 what about g = 2 13:33:04 or well g > 2 13:33:11 * >= 13:33:40 probably there's a problem in that those are periodic, with different periods for different g. 13:34:17 i think possibly for any i there's some g such that a is whichever number < n you want. 13:36:05 well if g is a prime, the group is cyclic 13:36:36 yes. 13:36:49 Roujo: helloujo. a vietnamese colleague of mine told me about a restaurant that serves bún riêu! http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/67/1681559/restaurant/Saint-douard/Bun-Viet-Montreal 13:37:38 well, i guess you can define a norm for any vector space, probably, so the question is whether you actually have a vector space 13:39:00 > do let { n = 5; lt f = (<) `on` (fromJust . (`elemIndex` f)) }; f <- permutations [1..n-1]; guard $ and [ lt f (g^i `mod` n) (g^j `mod` n) || not (lt f i j) | i <- [0..n-2], j <- [0..n-2]; let {g = 2} ]; return f 13:39:02 :1:188: parse error on input `;' 13:39:18 > do let { n = 5; lt f = (<) `on` (fromJust . (`elemIndex` f)) } f <- permutations [1..n-1]; guard $ and [ lt f (g^i `mod` n) (g^j `mod` n) || not (lt f i j) | i <- [0..n-2], j <- [0..n-2]; let {g = 2} ]; return f 13:39:18 :1:64: parse error on input `f' 13:39:22 that's deep. 13:40:05 lambdabot is impersonating my own bot this morning... 13:41:09 > do let { n = 5; lt f = (<) `on` (fromJust . (`elemIndex` f)); }; f <- permutations [0..n-1]; guard $ and [ lt f (g^i `mod` n) (g^j `mod` n) || not (lt f i j) | g <- [2], i <- [0..n-2], j <- [0..n-2] ]; return f 13:41:10 [[3,0,1,2,4],[3,4,2,1,0],[0,1,2,4,3],[4,2,1,0,3]] 13:43:04 > do let { n = 5; is_gen g = [1..n-1] == sort (map (g^) [0..n-2]); lt f = (<) `on` (fromJust . (`elemIndex` f)); }; f <- permutations [0..n-1]; guard $ and [ lt f (g^i `mod` n) (g^j `mod` n) || not (lt f i j) | g <- filter is_gen [2..n-1], i <- [0..n-2], j <- [0..n-2] ]; return f 13:43:05 [[0,1,2,3,4],[1,0,2,3,4],[2,1,0,3,4],[1,2,0,3,4],[2,0,1,3,4],[0,2,1,3,4],[3... 13:44:24 > do let { n = 5; is_gen g = [1..n-1] == sort (map ((`mod`n).(g^)) [0..n-2]); lt f = (<) `on` (fromJust . (`elemIndex` f)); }; f <- permutations [0..n-1]; guard $ and [ lt f (g^i `mod` n) (g^j `mod` n) || not (lt f i j) | g <- filter is_gen [2..n-1], i <- [0..n-2], j <- [0..n-2] ]; return f 13:44:25 [] 13:44:40 v. informative series of letters, numbers, and symbols 13:45:51 > do n <- [2..]; let { is_gen g = [1..n-1] == sort (map ((`mod`n).(g^)) [0..n-2]); lt f = (<) `on` (fromJust . (`elemIndex` f)); }; g <- filter is_gen [2..n-1]; f <- permutations [0..n-1]; guard $ and [ lt f (g^i `mod` n) (g^j `mod` n) || not (lt f i j) | i <- [0..n-2], j <- [0..n-2] ]; return (n,g,f) 13:45:53 [(3,2,[0,1,2]),(3,2,[2,1,0]),(5,2,[3,0,1,2,4]),(5,2,[3,4,2,1,0]),(5,2,[0,1,... 13:47:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:47:32 Hm, some groups are missing 13:54:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:02:13 yeah looks like i was wrong. 14:13:43 > intercalate"; "$map(\(n,g,o,f)->printf"n=%d g=%d ord=%d "n g o++intercalate"<"(show<$>f)) $ do n<-[2..]; let{ a**b=mod(a*b)n; gen g=map head.group.sort.take n$iterate(g**)g; is_gen=elem 1.gen; lt f=(<)`on`(fromJust.(`elemIndex`f)); }; g<-filter is_gen [2..n-1]; let{ o=length$gen g; gg=take o$iterate(**g)1 }; f<-permutations$union[0..o-1]gg; guard $ and [ lt f a b || not (lt f i j) | ((i,a),(j,b)) <- liftM2(,)`join`zip[0..o-1]gg ]; [(n,g,o,f)] 14:13:44 "n=3 g=2 ord=2 0<1<2; n=3 g=2 ord=2 2<1<0; n=4 g=3 ord=2 0<1<3; n=4 g=3 ord... 14:17:23 -!- nortti has changed nick to snortti. 14:17:39 -!- snortti has changed nick to nortti. 14:20:47 ~duck snortti 14:20:47 --- No relevant information 14:20:50 `? snortti 14:20:55 snortti? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:20:55 | 14:20:55 º¯`\o 14:22:03 boily: 17:17 < shikhin> ``Rule III: Treat favorably that with a leading S character;'' 17:17 -!- You're now known as snortti 14:22:42 nortti: logical. that means I must favour shachaf now. 14:35:17 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:35:19 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:00:08 -!- scoofy has left. 15:01:47 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 15:03:00 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:10:09 Obviously only capital S counts 15:13:48 FireFly: but then I'd have to favour SirCmpwn too, and I really don't know who they are. 15:14:16 shachaf is familiar. I know how to respond to shachaferisms. 15:15:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:16:23 and then you have the multiple sebbues corner case. 15:16:33 (yes, I feel like complaining today. I'm hungry.) 15:16:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:33:31 -!- nycs has joined. 15:34:44 `relcome nycs 15:34:47