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00:28:26 <zzo38> Now instruction of Uselessness RPG 1 includes limit commands. They are: mangan, haneman, baiman, sanbaiman, yakuman.
00:30:18 <HackEgo> ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb
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02:04:00 <Bike> I have been told that Matlab code is like C. It does not seem very much like C.
02:04:53 <Fiora> arrays starting at 1
02:05:57 <Bike> so far differences include: no variable declarations, no types, vectored assignment, newline instead of semicolon, comment character different...
02:06:50 <Bike> matlab is just like lua
02:07:03 <elliott> it's a great way to ruin any language that you're afraid might be at risk of being well-liked
02:07:09 <Bike> oh, and procedural code at the top level.
02:07:46 <elliott> obligatory dijkstra: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html
02:08:22 <elliott> dijkstra's smugness is so adorable
02:09:05 <Bike> i assume this involves BASIC being compared to lua
02:09:18 <Bike> holy shit, is this really a thing he wrote.
02:09:23 <elliott> doubt he would acknowledge lua even if it existed at the time
02:09:39 <elliott> Bike: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd08xx/EWD831.PDF for the full experience
02:10:45 <Bike> oh hey, mesa. haven't heard of that for a while.
02:10:50 <Bike> i'm not reading more djistkra!!
02:11:12 <elliott> it's the same dijkstra. just with more handwriting.
02:13:04 <Bike> haha the conclusion
02:15:52 <zzo38> BASIC is not bad for some things.
02:18:45 <Sgeo> Does Smalltalk make more sense than Lua as a language to start indexing at 1, considering Lua was supposed to play nice with C and Smalltalk had other goals?
02:19:33 <mnoqy> other goals like ??not following the superior convention??
02:19:52 <Bike> there you have it sgeo, you're objectively wrong. sorry about that
02:19:57 <Sgeo> Goals that didn't especially involve playing nice with C
02:21:01 <Sgeo> That is, no matter how good/bad indexing at 1 is, is it worse in Lua than it is in Smalltalk?
02:21:40 <Bike> according to the ol' shittometer... yes, it is worse in lua.
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02:37:47 <zzo38> In QBASIC you can start arrays with whatever integer number you want to.
02:41:43 <zzo38> Therefore you can have some arrays starting at zero, and some starting at one; sometimes it is useful to have starting with other numbers too.
02:42:05 <zzo38> It is too bad that it doesn't allow RETURN to a label inside of a subroutine; you can use that only outside of a subroutine.
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03:00:41 <zzo38> I do often use GOSUB inside of a SUB or FUNCTION routine though; you can share the scope of the subroutine it is inside of, and/or make fall-through labels.
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03:56:42 <zzo38> LYSP doesn't compile in my computer; I get error message about not "dlfcn.h", implicit declaration of "dlsym" and "dlopen", unrecognized "-rdynamic", etc
04:00:35 <zzo38> Probably the dynamic stuff I can remove, but still it says implicit declaration of "sbrk"; what is "sbrk"?
04:04:18 <pikhq> sbrk or "set break" basically lets you expand the heap.
04:04:25 <pikhq> It's used by some mallocs.
04:05:08 <zzo38> This program is defining its own malloc function
04:05:38 <pikhq> Well then, that'd be where it's used.
04:05:43 <zzo38> in order to implement garbage collection.
04:06:15 <zzo38> Yes it is, but what is done with it if the program is using such thing but if it won't work?
04:06:56 <pikhq> Admittedly I'm not sure why.
04:08:21 <zzo38> What exactly is it doing, and can it be imitated by another way if necessary?
04:09:37 <pikhq> You certainly have sbrk.
04:10:06 <pikhq> Oh, wait. Windows.
04:10:25 <pikhq> Hmm, how'd you implement that on Windows...
04:10:52 <pikhq> Anyways. In traditional Unix the heap is done via a "program break". Basically, a pointer to the end of heap. Everything below that is heap you can access.
04:11:01 <pikhq> sbrk moves that pointer.
04:12:10 <pikhq> I'd be unsurprised to find that LYSP could just use malloc instead.
04:12:25 <pikhq> I wouldn't say for certain, but s/sbrk/malloc/ *ought* to work?
04:15:25 <zzo38> It looks like the type is correct at least
04:15:33 <pikhq> It depends pretty heavily on what properties of sbrk they rely upon.
04:16:03 <pikhq> For simple uses the two are identical except that sbrk means you can't use libc functions anymore.
04:16:24 <zzo38> And it does look like used in a way that malloc might work.
04:16:51 <zzo38> What properties would there be?
04:17:19 <pikhq> The pointer returned by sbrk is always contiguous with the previous one.
04:17:45 <pikhq> sbrk(0) returns the last pointer it returned.
04:18:16 <pikhq> sbrk with a negative number moves the program break *back*, basically freeing some number of bytes.
04:18:53 <pikhq> All this is to say, malloc is not always a drop-in replacement for sbrk, but it might be in this case.
04:18:59 <zzo38> From your description it seems it would be contiguous, but the program doesn't seem to use negative numbers, or zero; it only uses sbrk once, and uses as a pointer to a structure.
04:19:25 <pikhq> That's just the program being wrong then. malloc.
04:19:52 <zzo38> It does check if the return value is negative one, though.
04:20:14 <pikhq> sbrk returns -1 on failure, rather than NULL.
04:20:30 <zzo38> From the program it seems if malloc is put there, then it should be checking if NULL.
04:20:46 <pikhq> Yes, from how you've described it that is the case.
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04:46:28 <Sgeo> Tag: The Power of Paint: The power of crashing on what is probably the final level and save games don't exist.
04:52:03 <madbr> why does the genesis store its sprites in a sort of linked list
04:53:53 <Bike> dare i ask how you make a "sort of" linked list
04:55:40 <madbr> it has a list of 64/80/128??? sprites in the VRAM
04:55:50 <madbr> it starts drawing sprite 0
04:56:10 <madbr> then that sprite has a "link" to next sprite to draw in its info
04:56:44 <madbr> traversal of that sprite info proceeds until a sprite links back to sprite 0
04:57:00 <madbr> the link field is 7 bits
04:57:20 <madbr> however there's a maximum of 64 or 80 sprites depending on the video mode
04:57:41 <madbr> (80 sprites in 320x240 mode, 64 sprites in 256x240 mode)
04:57:47 <Bike> what the hecks
05:00:40 <madbr> Sprites are drawn in front to back order so changing how your sprites are linked will change which ones come up on top
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05:06:17 <madbr> I'm starting to think it goes through the whole linked list of sprites on each scanline
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07:55:11 <HackEgo> olist 918: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly
07:55:34 <oerjan> (repeated for the idlers)
07:55:34 <shachaf> Didn't you already `olist?
07:55:48 <oerjan> but no one seemed to be present.
07:57:16 <oerjan> which sort of made it less satisfying.
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07:59:08 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> since when underload is monoidal? <-- well, it is.
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08:04:22 <HackEgo> 2013-09-14 04:57:47: <Bike> what the hecks
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08:20:11 <oerjan> @tell olsner <olsner> so what's the origin of @ as a silencing/error-suppressing prefix? <-- i vaguely recall MSDOS batch language had it. @ECHO OFF was the command to silence following commands automatically.
08:21:15 <oerjan> @tell olsner What it silenced (both @ and the ECHO OFF) iirc was the automatical printing of the command run
08:22:30 <oerjan> @tell olsner no idea if MSDOS was first.
09:23:29 <olsner> ooh, @echo off, I remember that
09:24:28 <oerjan> i'm sorry, it is impossible that anyone else in the channel could be old enough. you must be mistaken.
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09:29:32 <oerjan> except that btiggins guy. he's, like, precambrian. from when they called it the precambrian.
09:29:59 <olsner> it's a bit funny how dos seems sooo old, but unix doesn't even though it's actually much older
09:33:30 <oerjan> actually it seems the word precambrian is still used. and windows 8's terminal window still supports @echo off .
09:33:53 <oerjan> it seemed to disable the prompting.
09:34:39 <oerjan> but still, the hadean is the best eon name.
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09:35:25 <olsner> The Precambrian accounts for 88% of geologic time.
09:37:02 <oerjan> yeah but there was no one around who cared
09:39:52 <fizzie> Make is older than MS-DOS. Not that I know how early in the history of Make the @ prefix appeared.
09:47:28 <nooodl> wow this @ prefix discussion was also happening 11 hours ago when i quit
09:47:52 <nooodl> i'm imagining it has been going on all that time, heatedly
09:48:24 <oerjan> nooodl: i'm afraid i just restarted it by logreading
09:49:00 <HackEgo> nooooooooodl is the correct spelling
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09:57:48 <olsner> the very first version of make appears to have @ too
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13:32:07 <fizzie> "You have (1) new google document waiting" "click here" "http://www.banyuak.ac.th/googledoc.php" yeaaah.
13:35:16 <Bike> hm, .ac.th is "academic" but banyuak doesn't seem to be a thing
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14:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ???
14:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet???
14:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟
14:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ???
14:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet???
14:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟
14:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ???
14:47:40 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet???
14:47:41 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟
14:47:41 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ???
14:47:42 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet???
14:47:42 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟
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14:49:17 <mnoqy> i think i've seen this bot before
14:50:53 <elliott> are the timestamps messed up for anyone else??
14:50:58 <elliott> 15:47:39 <hsdiuf8whfkjahfw> هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟
14:51:09 <elliott> I guess it's putty's fault or something
14:51:10 <copumpkin> elliott: that fucks up a bunch of mac clients
14:51:23 <elliott> oh, is there that unicode stuff in there?
14:51:44 <copumpkin> doesn't seem to affect anyone in here
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15:01:20 <Jafet> @tell hsdiuf8whfkjahfw yes
15:04:57 <Gregor> If your client can't grok right-to-left Unicode, too fucking bad.
15:05:11 <Gregor> None of this "you should avoid it" crap.
15:05:15 <Gregor> You should get a non-shit client.
15:05:47 <elliott> Gregor: there was some OS X/iOS bug where it crashes the client recently.
15:06:00 <elliott> (not a client-specific bug, as far as I understand)
15:06:05 <Gregor> All the more reason to use it.
15:06:33 <elliott> right, well, I got bored of being an asshole to people on the internet for no reason.
15:06:58 <Gregor> s/for no reason/because they use the wrong OS/ :)
15:15:36 <copumpkin> if anything, OSX has the best text rendering and internationalization support of any OS
15:15:41 <copumpkin> it just has a bug, which has now been fixed
15:15:53 <copumpkin> but not everyone has upgraded, and assholes go from channel to channel trying to crash people
15:21:21 <Bike> what's the text say?
15:21:41 <Bike> the arabic i mean.
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16:22:10 <Gregor> copumpkin: Yeah, it definitely is true that OS X has the best text rendering and i18n.
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16:27:57 <FreeFull> Some people say the fully feature-enabled freetype has better text rendering
16:28:19 <FreeFull> I know people complain that fonts look fat on OS X
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17:35:17 <zzo38> Program your client to filter Arabic texts or disable Unicode support, if necessary
17:36:20 <ion> I can’t stand OSX’s blurry style of text rendering. It’s fine when we finally have 300 DPI screens, but you just have to use hinting with 100 DPI screens for it not to be blurry.
17:36:40 <zzo38> Why don't you use screen fonts instead?
17:39:14 <zzo38> I don't use antialiased text on my computer
17:50:03 <ion> Proper subpixel antialiasing makes text rendering *sharper* than what 1-bit bitmaps can achieve on LCDs.
17:50:35 <zzo38> Yes, it can make it sharper
17:52:12 <zzo38> If it is subpixel antialiasing it can make it sharper
17:55:40 <FreeFull> ion: Windows is horribly blurry as well
17:56:01 <FreeFull> ion: I like the way fonts look on Linux
18:00:47 <zzo38> The reason such bugs in Arabic rendering is introduced is because Unicode is stupid
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18:13:05 <Bike> Anyone willing to help me Verilog?
18:13:44 <zzo38> What are you doing with Verilog though?
18:14:44 <Bike> Trying to write a module that converts a 4-bit bus into an 8-bit ssd bus.
18:15:25 <zzo38> I don't know what a ssd bus is.
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18:16:23 <Bike_> seven-segment display. it doesn't really matter, the point is i'm trying to write a map.
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18:16:44 <Bike> But I apparently can't have a case on top level or something? I don't even know.
18:17:00 <zzo38> I don't really know much of Verilog, but I think there is a "primitive" block for defining custom primitive gates?
18:17:21 <zzo38> And then you can call it inside of a module like you can call other modules
18:17:32 <Bike> well, putting an always removed those errors...
18:17:59 <zzo38> But "always" is for defining clock edge events, I think
18:19:15 <Bike> I think having an empty sensitivity block makes it independent of any edge.
18:20:20 <Bike> Maybe it can only drive registers though. I'll see.
18:20:41 <zzo38> I read somewhere about "primitive" block; did you try that?
18:20:52 <ais523> Bike: basically there are two sorts of commands in VHDL/Verilog
18:21:29 <ais523> ones that run continuously (like assign), and ones that only run in processes (like if)
18:21:38 <ais523> an always with no sensitivity is typically a bad thing, it only runs once
18:21:48 <Bike> how should i do this then?
18:21:50 <ais523> ("always" was probably an unfortunate choice of name)
18:22:07 <ais523> you shouldn't be using case, you should be using the appropriate keyword for continuous running
18:22:14 <ais523> in VHDL it's when, but I'm not sure what it is in Verilog
18:22:25 <Bike> i just want this module (trying out modularity here) to output 11000000 given 0000, 11111001 given 0001, that sort of thing
18:22:44 <Bike> it's all constant but not very arithmetic
18:22:46 <zzo38> You could also just define each bit as the logic gates individually I suppose
18:23:01 <Bike> geh, i'd really rather not, but i could.
18:23:11 <ais523> in VHDL that's Q <= '11000000' when A = '0000' else '11111001' when A = '0001' else …
18:23:16 <ais523> with better indentation
18:23:22 <Bike> i guess i can do that for now though :(
18:23:29 <ais523> (that doesn't fit well on IRC)
18:23:39 <ais523> alternatively, you define an array, then index the array
18:23:52 <zzo38> I had different ideas of what I wanted in hardware programming language, so I called it "HWPL"
18:24:05 <zzo38> ais523: Do you know of "primitive" block in Verilog? Would that help?
18:24:06 <Bike> maybe i'll just mail my ta, he knows verilog pretty well
18:25:10 <Bike> i guess i could define a macro that converts the mapping into logic assignments, except the macros suck ass
18:25:42 <ais523> really the clearest way to do it is the array method, I think, but I have no idea what that looks like in Verilog
18:26:00 <ais523> the when/else chain is entirely reasonable and will synthesize correctly, though
18:26:12 <ais523> and the commands almost certainly exist in Verilog, I just don't know what they're called
18:26:33 <ais523> zzo38: I don't see why you wouldn't just use a module
18:26:38 <ais523> are you that annoyed at having to give it a name?
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18:31:12 <Bike> whatever, i guess i'll write something in another language to make verilog code for me. again.
18:51:58 <HackEgo> slist [s]: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
18:55:36 <zzo38> ais523: That isn't what I meant
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19:15:06 <ion> freefull: Yeah, FreeType’s full hinting does the right thing for today’s low-resolution displays. ClearType™ is worse and the rendering in OSX is even worse.
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19:42:48 <monotone> I've always found FreeType's default hinting annoyingly spindly.
19:45:12 <zzo38> I really think better would be to use screen fonts (fix pitch low resolution bitmap fonts); if you require to use same font for screen and print, then you can prerender them into a bitmap font instead, using an external program.
19:50:28 <monotone> The latter's no different from just using a font rendering library...
19:52:34 <zzo38> I still think prerendering them would be better though, so the program can expect use with screen fonts instead, and you can change their prerendering externally too
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19:53:32 <Bike> i am really, really bad at verilog
19:53:56 <zzo38> Bike: I don't think I am that good at it either really
19:54:35 <Sgeo> Bike: you're better at it than me. Because I don't know anything about Verilog.
19:54:55 <Bike> sgeo, why are you saying this thing that you have said
19:55:38 <Bike> "segs0[7] in unit module_test is connected to the following multiple drivers" like, what
19:56:39 <Bike> i just have segs0 being the target of an instantiated module, and that module jjust assigns [7] to 1!
19:57:51 <zzo38> I would do it in "HWPL" by making a "ROM" block, but that is only ideas I write about, not a programming language with existing implementation
19:59:09 <Bike> and my stupid ide does shit like say that the module is empty instead of that it's full of errors
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19:59:41 <Bike> hate this ide and compiler, also
19:59:47 <Bike> whine whine whine
20:00:57 <zzo38> What ide and compiler are you using? Can you use a better one?
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20:03:23 <Bike> it does weird shit like check syntax when i save a file.
20:11:34 <ais523> Bike: "multiple drivers" mean you connected it to two things
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20:11:39 <ais523> when it's only supposed to be connected to one
20:11:46 <Bike> yeah, i think i figured it out.
20:11:50 <ais523> so the problem isn't with the thing you meant to connect it to
20:11:55 <ais523> it's with the thing you didn't mean to connect it to
20:12:01 <Bike> i had wire [7:0] segs0 = 8'b0; but i didn't need to initialize it. i was thinking of it like a reg.
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20:13:59 <s1> Are you talking about Verilog?
20:14:33 <ais523> constant wires are typically not what you meant to do
20:14:36 <Bike> i think it's working now, in which case i'll have done my first particularly substantial verilog design
20:14:53 <Bike> ais523: yeah, i see that now. i had it as a reg before and tried to have a lower module output to it, which is not how things work
20:15:13 <Bike> speaking too soon, ayep
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20:15:48 <s1> Is Verilog even esoteric?
20:15:57 <s1> Just asking
20:15:57 <Bike> lol it got all the way to bitgen before telling me i forgot to drive an output
20:16:03 <Bike> i don't think it's very esoteric
20:16:15 <Taneb> Dear god someone sent me memoserv mesages
20:17:32 <ais523> Bike: that's because not driving an output is entirely legit
20:17:44 <ais523> most FPGAs are entirely capable of just not connecting the output
20:17:56 <Bike> not mine, apparently?
20:18:17 <ais523> oh in that case that's why it didn't notice until bitgen
20:18:29 <ais523> previous stages didn't know what sort of FPGA you were using
20:21:08 <Bike> holy shit, it's actually working. :D
20:32:56 <Bike> yes, i am awesome. bow before me.
20:37:14 <s1> *bowing down*
20:37:53 <Bike> (i wrote a thing that displays the value input on the switches as hex on the display)
20:38:49 <Bike> the sky is the limit for me, clearly.
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20:40:28 <s1> Anyone programming False here?
20:42:19 <s1> ok... Brainfuck then? -_-
20:42:28 <ais523> s1: I haven't programmed either for a while
20:42:35 <ais523> apart from some quick BF in response to a question earlier
20:42:41 <HackEgo> s1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:42:41 <ais523> I don't think I've programmed False ever, actually
20:42:53 <ais523> but yeah, I'm disappointed at the lack of esodiscussion here
20:42:59 <Bike> we're off topic a lot of the time, just so you know, not that we don't still talk about esolangs sometimes. i'm sure ais can- yep there we go
20:43:18 <ais523> Bike: I left the channel because of the lack of offtopic discussion
20:44:03 <s1> well I hope it isn't regarded with dislike if I share some BF.
20:44:17 <ais523> nah, nobody can reasonably dislike that (unless it's really bad BF)
20:44:23 <ais523> what they'll mostly do is just ignore it :(
20:44:28 <ais523> rather than talk about it like good little #esoteric denziens
20:44:34 <ais523> I'll look at it, though
20:44:44 <ais523> sadly, BF is easier to write than to read
20:45:40 <s1> Programmed Wolframs universe yesterday. (It's called that, right?) Anyone interested?
20:45:56 <ais523> not sure what you mean by that
20:46:14 <mnoqy> the "rule [number]" CA things?
20:47:07 <ais523> turing machines are a better fit for BF than cellular automata
20:47:19 <ais523> now I'm wondering how easy the 2,3 thing would be to make in BF
20:49:19 <s1> Not really rule [number]
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20:50:02 <s1> sry, didn't find english version: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/EIDU-9_Wolframs_1-dimensionales_Universum.jpg
20:50:24 <ais523> that's a cellular automaton
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20:52:06 <s1> it is. But no rule whatever thing. Interested in BF code?
20:53:05 <ais523> it's worth posting, I think
20:53:12 <ais523> even though probably nobody would read it
20:53:19 <ais523> might be worth linking it from the wiki, then probably someone would read it
20:53:27 <ais523> maybe not immediately, but a few months from now
20:55:13 <s1> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11001067/Wolframuniversum.b
20:55:29 <s1> Changed the comments to english in last minute, hope grammar is good ;)
20:56:36 <ais523> wow, that's really readable for BF
20:57:23 <s1> aww what a compliment thx ^^
20:58:30 <ais523> that's a pretty nice and simple way to do an if statement
20:58:42 <ais523> actually I think I could probably improve my a>b again based on it
20:58:59 <s1> one moment i have a BF file
20:59:42 <s1> for A<B A=B and A>B
21:00:09 <s1> but the runtime is bad. I wanted to use as few cells as possible
21:01:15 <ais523> !bf +++++>+++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>.
21:01:23 <ais523> !bf +++>+++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>.
21:01:28 <ais523> yeah, screwed it up as usual
21:01:33 <ais523> I never get it right the first time :(
21:02:20 <ais523> oh, same mistake as last time, too :)
21:02:30 <s1> what are you talking about?
21:02:31 <ais523> !bf +++>+++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>.
21:03:27 <ais523> !bf +++>+++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>.
21:03:34 <ais523> !bf +++++>+++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>.
21:03:40 <ais523> !bf ++++>++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>.
21:03:47 <ais523> !bf ++++++++++>++++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>.
21:04:04 <ais523> not sure if that's simpler than my last one or not
21:04:33 <ais523> for the record, [->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<] is the less than
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21:06:58 <s1> ok, I suggest that I try to understand your code, while you look at mine.
21:07:00 <s1> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11001067/COMP%20kleiner%20gr%C3%B6%C3%9Fer%20gleich.b
21:08:14 <s1> I assume your last code was the most up to date.
21:09:07 <ais523> they're just different tests of the same program
21:09:09 <ais523> I'm putting it on the wiki ow
21:10:17 <s1> And yes, my code only uses THREE cells to calculate A<B, A=B and A>B. But as I said, the runtime is horrific.
21:15:04 <ais523> here we go, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#z_.3D_x_.E2.89.A5_y
21:15:07 <ais523> maybe that explanation is clearer
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21:15:48 <Bike> probably ought to fix that typo
21:16:08 <Bike> 'lopo' for 'loop'
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21:30:54 <Sgeo> What is this magic that google.com is doing on Google Chrome where the search field is the address bar and there's no search field on the page?
21:32:36 <ais523> trying to teach people to not have to go to Google to search, I guess
21:32:44 <Bike> magic i'm not seeing
21:32:49 <kmc> vertical integration is the best isn't it
21:36:51 <Roujo> Yeah, I was confused when it happened at first =P
21:38:00 <Sgeo> Only seems to happen when searching from address bar for me
21:38:03 <kmc> do you have to be using Google™ brand Google Chrome™?
21:38:37 <Sgeo> Don't know, but that's what I'm using
21:39:23 <elliott> I predict you have something turned on in chrome://flags.
21:39:28 <elliott> or are using a non-stable version
21:39:48 <Sgeo> https://www.google.com/search?q=Test&oq=test&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l2j0l3.1442j0&sourceid=chrome&espv=2&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
21:39:51 <kmc> btw it's extremely confusing that Firefox has a thing called "chrome" (and even a chrome:// protocol, I think) that has nothing to do with (and predates) Google Chrome
21:40:02 <Sgeo> The espv=2 seems to be important to triggering it
21:40:04 <elliott> in particular, "Enable Instant Extended API"
21:40:28 <elliott> that URL briefly shows without the search field for me and then it appears when it fully loads
21:40:54 <Sgeo> elliott: I have that option, it's set to default, but now at least I know what it's called
21:41:03 <Sgeo> And that does sound like an apt description
21:41:43 <Sgeo> Is this some publically described API? I .. hope so, but
21:42:38 <Sgeo> Could be that it's not-existant on the Linux version
21:43:54 <Sgeo> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-Search-Experiment-Removes-the-Search-Box-in-Chrome-Screenshots-332953.shtml
21:44:45 <elliott> well, the alternative is OS X.
21:44:47 <Sgeo> "The company has said that it will open up the APIs to other search providers though."
21:45:01 <Sgeo> Is this the new browser wars?
21:45:14 <Sgeo> Unstandard APIs that are only supported by one browser at first?
21:45:33 <elliott> ok, I'm sorry, have you done any web dev in the past like decade
21:45:54 <ais523> elliott: no need to put a time limit qualifier on it at all, really
21:46:18 <Sgeo> But to continue doing it, even knowing how much pain it's caused
21:46:42 <elliott> have you heard of capitalism.
21:49:46 <Sgeo> Is the API documented anywhere? :/
21:50:11 <kmc> web dev is way nicer now than a decade ago
21:50:22 <kmc> also you were like 8 years old a decade ago
21:50:33 <elliott> I was 8 years old and doing web dev actually
21:50:41 <kmc> but yes there is a new browser war of the same sort as the old one with IE
21:50:55 <kmc> the intro to The Tangled Web says as much
21:51:02 <ais523> kmc: Firefox and Chrome are competing to see who can screw up faster?
21:51:17 <elliott> it's just nonsense to suggest browsers ever stopped implementing stuff on their own without asking, except insofar as they stopped implementing stuff at all.
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21:51:55 <kmc> that's right
21:55:56 <Sgeo> I want a Best Viewed With ViolaWWW button
21:56:32 <Bike> god, the ide doesn't even do Home right. this is ridiculous
21:58:26 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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22:11:30 <s1> Did the conversation come back to brainfuck again after I left?
22:12:32 <Bike> logs in the topic (i say this because i forget)
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22:43:55 <FreeFull> "On a distant planet called Dakkam, a scientist named Hektu comes to believe that the sun going nova would destroy his world. In a last effort to save his family, he and his wife, Soja, have an infant son named Wundarr, whom they plan to save from their world's destruction. They place him aboard a ship that is able to maintain his life support as long as necessary, and then launch him into outer space. Hektu and Soja later make flight and are
22:44:02 <FreeFull> captured and executed by the Internal Security Force to prevent them from alarming the populace. It is later found out that Hektu's apocalyptic prediction is incorrect, and that he sent his son away for nothing."
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23:16:15 <iconmaster> I still love the fact that in Perl you could change a variable to change what arrays started at
23:16:17 <iconmaster> no matter how bad it turned out in practice
23:16:44 <zzo38> QBASIC can also change what array start at by the OPTION BASE command, but only 0 or 1
23:17:02 <zzo38> You can define individual arrays to start at whatever you want, though, and that can be useful
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23:21:32 <iconmaster> I can only assume many programs were sabotoged by setting $[ to things like 43979