00:01:31 It works now. Thanks! 00:01:36 yay 00:01:39 Now to test some more. 00:02:03 Which reminds me, I have to rework my Fibonacci loop. 00:02:20 i am doing a really pretty one right now 00:03:46 it's done 00:03:50 JWinslow23: if you do echo %PATH% , does the result contain C:\Ruby200\bin ? if so you can just write ruby instead of the whole filename. 00:04:31 Yes. 00:04:36 excellent. 00:04:55 Yes, perfect...Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahav! 00:05:01 Sorry for that. 00:05:08 JWinslow23: take a look at the talk page 00:05:28 hey maniackal laughters are not done enough here. also: 00:05:31 `? mad 00:05:32 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 00:05:44 Nice, myname! 00:06:14 i think i cannot get it any smaller 00:06:24 JWinslow23, you might also want to try dragging files from the file manager to the command line, sometimes that fills in the pathname for you but IDK if windows does it 00:06:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:06:38 S'OK. 00:07:16 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: fade away). 00:07:26 Phantom_Hoover: works for me 00:07:43 it is horribly slow, though 00:07:45 also thanks, i didn't know that 00:08:09 actually i dragged from the desktop, but probably same thing. 00:08:27 it took 15 seconds to calculate 10946 00:09:04 Racket, Chicken, or Guile? 00:09:09 I gather that Guile is more interactive than the other two, but the other two generally have more libraries. explicit/implicit renaming seems [Chicken] seems... almost too simple. 00:09:22 Also, is it just me, or is there something of a war in the Scheme community between PLT and everyone else? 00:09:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:09:38 i am going to make some nice debugger in hopefully not so far future 00:11:20 I was thinking of VisualMarioLANG. 00:11:36 You can actually see Mario as he's going through the level. 00:11:38 with .net integration? 00:11:52 you mean interactive? 00:12:09 The only interaction is the program inputted. 00:12:14 And the input it asks for. 00:13:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:13:29 It just makes Mario so you can see him instead of you coding him blind. 00:13:30 oh, my interpreter doesn't really respect walls as walls :D 00:13:45 Why you little... 00:13:51 i.e. +|: will just output 1 00:14:16 i will fix that 00:14:28 Good. It's starting to give me a rash. 00:15:00 have fun, i am going to sleep now 00:15:04 hopefully 00:15:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:16:06 JWinslow23: it's not fair to make rash judgements. 00:17:27 Ha ha, very funny, oerjan. 00:17:36 it's not fair to make rash judgements. 00:17:59 ^echo it's not fair to make rash judgements. 00:17:59 it's not fair to make rash judgements. it's not fair to make rash judgements. 00:19:36 The truth machines do not work. 00:20:02 damn 00:20:12 Is Rexx... interesting in any way? 00:20:36 JWinslow23: which one? 00:21:00 Both of them. 00:21:07 They just take input forever. 00:23:47 STDIN.read may be the problem 00:23:50 Also, my countdown program displays a Mars astrology symbol instead of boom, although it does the countdown just fine. 00:26:11 the code doesn't look like it's supposed to BOOM 00:26:21 you print 13, which should be a newline 00:26:22 Never mind, I'll change it. 00:26:25 two times 00:26:31 and then 11 00:26:39 don't know what that is 00:27:59 JWinslow23: the problem of the truth machine is located 00:29:06 The countdown equates to ++++++++++>++++++++++[.-<.>]+++++++[<++++++++>-]<.+++++++++++++..--. in BF. 00:29:53 Idea: BrainFunc. Brainfuck with definable functions that are defined by characters. 00:30:12 Also, my friend says BFGUI would be amazing, where you define the color of the pixel by memory 00:30:12 myname, what is the problem with the truth machine(s)? 00:30:29 JWinslow23: change STDIN.read to STDIN.gets 00:30:39 So, not my fault? 00:30:43 nope 00:30:48 Got it. 00:30:59 I'll change the code. You do the same thing and reupload it. 00:31:08 pushed 00:33:07 Let's test the truth machine now. 00:33:47 works here 00:34:13 Not here. 00:34:21 what happens? 00:35:50 Never mind, I redownloaded, and it works great. 00:36:35 Let's test the cat programs. 00:36:43 it works 00:36:53 Got it. 00:37:03 Any more programs in need of testing? 00:37:13 not that i know of 00:37:19 Oh, and your Fibonacci program works great! 00:37:20 drlemon: have you seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/Paintfuck%2B 00:38:05 Yeah, and there is no interpreter. It is an excellent idea, though. 00:38:06 it basically does (a, b, 0) -> (a+b, 0, b) -> (0, a+b, b) -> (b, a+b, 0) 00:38:07 Oh, there was a language that was brainfuck, but each character was any word of a certain length. It had a wiki article, but i can't recall the name 00:38:28 Wordf**k? 00:38:35 no one can remember all the brainfuck derivatives 00:39:13 Of course not. 00:39:18 Derpcode, 00:39:25 JWinslow23: there is plain Paintfuck though 00:39:27 Boolf**k, 00:39:53 oerjan, I know that there is plain PF, and I know the interpreter for that, but wouldn't it be nice if there were colors? 00:40:03 JWinslow23: now enjoy exploring the wonderful world of mariolang 00:40:06 just pointing out. 00:40:28 myname, I will make a 99 Bottles of Beer program. 00:40:45 It will be a dread to chart, though. I'll need help shortening it. 00:41:30 a simple was would be long paths for the strings to print 00:43:21 I will start. 00:44:02 It was wordfuck, thanks 00:46:40 an obligatory brainfuck interpreter should be possible 00:48:05 oh, wait 00:48:23 it seems pretty hard, actually 00:49:18 i cannot think of a way to do "move mmemory pointer to cell x" 00:56:31 -!- lexande has left. 00:57:31 myname: just convert one of the bf self-interpreters. 00:58:23 that is changing the code 00:58:29 i want to interpret it 00:58:52 um, no. 00:59:10 huh? 00:59:14 if you convert a bf self-interpreter to mariolang, you get a bf interpreter in mariolang. 00:59:34 ah 00:59:49 sounds about right 01:01:49 okay, i just noticed that termbox bindings for ruby doesn't seem to be that great 01:05:33 JWinslow23: i have great ideas on how to improve the language 01:06:23 How? 01:07:00 i thought of making the whole floor destroyable blocks 01:07:23 i.e. if you jump at it from below it will be removed and you are able to change execution 01:08:54 Huh. Maybe there can be a floor block just for that. 01:09:22 Also, this is already confusing, the 99 Bottles. 01:09:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:12:49 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:16:43 help im having trouble figuring out how to use youtube 01:16:58 What? What are you having trouble with? 01:17:36 Figuring out if I can buy a payment-required YouTube video for someone else 01:17:57 Oh. 01:18:05 Yeah, I can't help you there. 01:18:11 -!- Bike has joined. 01:18:20 I've never got to s payment required YouTube video. 01:18:28 *got to A 01:18:39 Also, why are websites able to detect whether Incognito is in use? 01:18:53 Don't you mean how? 01:19:31 lol, do sites do that 01:19:44 No, they really don't. 01:20:04 To be honest, things got weird when Sgeo said "help im having trouble figuring out how to use youtube". 01:20:15 I mean, who can't USE YouTube? 01:20:29 "Figuring out if I can buy a payment-required YouTube video for someone else" cleared it up. 01:20:34 Bike: when I try to watch the video in Incognito, it says "Incognito mode is not supported for playback. Please use a non-incognito browser window." 01:20:39 welcome to sgeo, i guess 01:20:46 Sgeo: what makes you think that's on youtube's side 01:21:08 What? 01:21:17 Incognito works for me on Chrome! 01:21:26 The video playback works fine. 01:21:39 on a pay-for video, i assume he means 01:21:47 Oh. 01:21:56 I never got to one, so... 01:21:58 ...yeah. 01:22:28 only fools pay for things. fuck capitalism. fuck money. live 01:23:13 My goal is to watch the video in question with someone else using a synchtube clone 01:23:24 I have reason to believe it will work if we both own the video 01:30:14 science: always in need of funding. 01:32:11 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:34:00 I need help with a 99 Bottles program, so volunteer on the wiki. 01:34:04 I'm out! 01:34:05 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:34:46 they're out 01:47:55 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:51:58 youtube has pay videos now? 01:52:01 what is the world coming to 01:52:25 you've been able to buy movies for like, over a year... 01:53:03 i haven't 01:53:06 because I haven't known about it! 01:54:01 perhaps the fact that every day I make google searches like "boardwalk empire s04e07 torrent" has clued googletube into the fact that I'm not interested in paying for content 01:54:19 on the other hand I've bought a fair amount of music through Google Play 02:00:06 -!- FreeFull has joined. 02:01:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:05:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:20:34 -!- FreeFull has joined. 02:23:15 https://archive.org/details/historicalsoftware 02:25:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:40:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:42:41 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111118). 02:45:38 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 03:08:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:11:55 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:12:59 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:17:05 holy crap Microsoft Flight Simulator is ancient? 03:18:25 ooh, i knew it was old but not that it predated windows. 03:18:39 jesus, apple ii 03:18:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:21:00 I want to see the peter pan game 03:21:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVPp6HccTY 03:22:36 You drew a mouse with your mouse! 03:23:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:23:30 i ship winston and jazz 03:27:06 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:27:32 -!- ^v has joined. 03:29:01 -!- asie has joined. 03:36:11 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:44:54 http://pastebin.com/8NrKrrd9 can anyone solve this puzzle 03:45:17 no 03:45:43 it;s encrypted 03:46:08 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:46:40 `ralist 03:46:41 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ralist: not found 03:50:50 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:52:42 Bike: http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/346.pdf 03:52:51 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:53:32 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 03:54:11 I have no idea what this says. 03:54:33 it's a thing where they cracked ECDSA on a smartcard 03:54:48 by using power analysis to get the low bits of each nonce used in the algorithm 03:55:06 and then making an algorithm to use that to get the key I think? I'm not entirely sure >_< 03:56:01 power analysis meaning like, sidechannel? 03:56:42 yeah 03:57:01 dag 04:08:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:14:03 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:18:05 -!- asie has joined. 04:24:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:30:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:30:21 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:34:31 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:40:13 What would a function language where you're discouraged from using identity directly be like? 04:41:25 https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1376474_10151598855976923_133257084_n.jpg 04:49:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:50:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:53:58 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 04:54:58 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:00:43 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:00:43 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:06:02 ($ $define! a-drastic-thought "One special form instead of zero -- alternatively, two kinds of sexprs, instead of one. One kind of combiner, instead of 2. Whether treated as applicative or operative depends on the form embedded in ($ or no $). No more accidentally exposing internals to operatives when expecting applicatives. Probably drastic deviations from Kernel needed to make workable. How do ($ ...) forms look as a sexpr to things that 05:06:02 get passed them?" 05:06:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:10:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:10:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:14:01 -!- Bike has joined. 05:15:43 -!- carado has joined. 05:17:15 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:18:11 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:22:37 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:26:18 Hmm, maybe ($ ...) is an olist 05:26:54 (olist 1 (+ 1 2)) == ($ 1 3) 05:27:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:28:49 um, it's still 926 05:29:20 :-) 05:31:49 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:31:50 :★) 05:44:22 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 05:53:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:57:39 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:00:44 Need to write a C(++) program. It should embed an R(6/7)RS Scheme interpreter 06:01:29 @arr 6/7 arr s 06:01:29 Aye Aye Cap'n 06:03:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:13:36 [3112078.456689] cdc_acm 1-2:1.1: This device cannot do calls on its own. It is not a modem. 06:13:42 you will not go to space today 06:14:12 -!- augur has joined. 06:20:15 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:22:05 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:22:07 kmc: conal's talk today about parallel scans was good 06:22:35 where was it 06:22:41 mountain view 06:22:53 here are the slides: http://conal.net/talks/understanding-parallel-scan.pdf 06:22:59 but a lot of the talk was talking 06:24:52 i liked the thing about bottom-up trees and nonregular types and all that 06:26:04 i wonder what this non-regular freemonadish business is about 06:43:11 "What's new in Google Voice: ... Added warning when attempting to send text messages to 911" 07:46:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:02:13 wow, that was scary/confusing for a while 08:02:37 I tried to log onto the University computer system, and discovered my home directory didn't exist 08:02:52 but it turned out that I'd connected via the teaching proxy out of habit, rather than the research proxy 08:02:58 and given that I'm not teaching any more… 08:25:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:31:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:31:50 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 08:31:50 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Changing host). 08:31:51 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 08:47:16 -!- callforjudgement has quit. 08:49:30 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:00:11 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:01:37 -!- heroux has joined. 09:06:31 -!- carado has joined. 09:41:43 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:42:30 -!- carado has joined. 10:09:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:16:06 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:19:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:22:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:40:16 It is simultaneously trivial and quite hard to do GEDCOM in Haskell 10:40:23 Because GEDCOM is pretty much a huge ADT 10:40:28 But a really huuuuge one 10:44:03 what is it with you and genealogy 10:44:17 Who knows 10:44:35 What is it with you and that thing you're into 10:55:21 "You must call TIC without an output argument before calling TOC without an input argument." 10:56:52 fizzie, that sounds suspiciously on-topic 11:00:18 -!- asie has joined. 11:02:33 -!- carado has joined. 11:07:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:35:34 -!- yorick has joined. 11:40:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:42:55 Taneb: No, no, it's just MATLAB. 11:43:08 As I said 11:47:40 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:51:28 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 11:57:21 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:03:33 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:07:37 -!- boily has joined. 12:07:44 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:08:24 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 13:11:34 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 13:18:29 Life is scary :( 13:19:10 Tanello. 13:19:15 why? what happened? 13:19:48 I'm not eating very well 13:20:42 I am not very good at telling myself "Now is when you eat" 13:24:06 Why do we say "Turing complete" and not "Church complete"? 13:25:36 always eating, never eating, or eating the wrong things? 13:25:48 The second 13:30:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:37:55 -!- Mawu has joined. 13:38:11 Hi ! 13:38:28 `relcome Mawu 13:38:33 ​Mawu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:38:46 Anyone available for some clarifications on whitespace ? :-) 13:38:48 Thanks ! 13:39:06 hm i don't particularly know whitespace, but maybe 13:40:03 I'm trying to write a simple tool in cpp that takes a string as parameter and output a whitespace script that output the string 13:40:28 But I'm having some trouble understanding the correct syntaxe of the PUSH (Space Space Tab [Number]) 13:41:45 um i see no Tab in the spec 13:41:53 *in the tutorial 13:42:04 In the tutoripec. 13:42:13 (It's a combination tutorial-spec.) 13:42:27 i guess. since i found no other spec. 13:42:49 that word should be homologated. I think the coffeescript docs do that. 13:43:03 but as i read it, it should be [Space Space [Number]] 13:45:07 also, it seems from the examples that the [Number] is in binary, with the initial 0=Space obligatory. 13:45:53 e.g. push 11 is [Space][Space][Space][Tab][Space][Tab][Tab][LF] 13:46:06 oerjan: The initial space is the sign. 13:46:12 ah. 13:46:21 "The sign of a number is given by its first character, [Space] for positive and [Tab] for negative." 13:46:38 That's the problem with tutoripecs, they're not always terribly well organized for a reference work. 13:47:12 right, i was confused because there was no table with the number syntax 13:47:48 Mawu: anyway, that's it, then [Space] [Space] [sign] [number in binary] [LF] 13:48:06 and sign=Space if positive. 13:49:30 "Many commands require numbers or labels as parameters. Numbers can be any number of bits wide, and are simply represented as a series of [Space] and [Tab], terminated by a [LF]. [Space] represents the binary digit 0, [Tab] represents 1. The sign of a number is given by its first character, [Space] for positive and [Tab] for negative. Note that this is not twos complement, it just indicates a sign." 13:49:36 what about labels' unicity? are they converted to numbers first, or is e.g. 0001 different from 1? 13:49:38 is the relevant part. 13:49:56 boily: not as i read it. 13:50:14 i mean, they're sequences of spaces and tabs, not numbers. 13:50:25 oh. just sequences. 13:50:44 "Labels are simply [LF] terminated lists of spaces and tabs. There is only one global namespace so all labels must be unique." 13:53:40 You guys are the best 13:54:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:54:07 :) 13:56:05 So to push 'H' (72 - 1001000) on the stack it would be : S S T (push) S (positive sign) T S S T S S S (1001000) ? 13:56:29 Mawu: there is no T in the push command 13:56:49 and you need a final LF. 13:57:32 Yes, my bad 13:57:44 -!- carado has joined. 13:57:52 Oh right, the push is only a space 13:58:06 then that should be it 13:58:25 Oh and forgot a leading 0, no ? 13:58:36 Mawu: no, that was my mistake. 13:58:42 Ok 13:58:42 i didn't know about the sign. 13:59:16 'cause on the whitespace tutorial it said that PUSH 1 is : S S S T LF 14:00:05 yes i was reading those examples too, but i misinterpreted it because there were no negative ones. 14:02:20 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:02:23 http://pastebin.com/8NrKrrd9 can anyone solve this puzzle <-- are you Mafingre and ban evading 14:02:43 also idle 14:03:25 -!- asie has joined. 14:08:57 oerjan: is Mafingre one of the ion-lickers? 14:09:08 i don't think so 14:09:41 he's the guy who spams encryption puzzles 14:10:13 there are some weird people out there... 14:10:17 to several channels 14:22:30 -!- conehead has joined. 14:25:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:36:40 -!- ^v has joined. 14:37:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:49:11 -!- Mawu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:51:43 -!- asie has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 14:51:54 Am I allowed to nominate another language to be featured? 14:53:15 -!- asie has joined. 14:54:59 Taneb: yes, see talk page. 14:55:24 (i interpret that as yes.) 14:56:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh my eyes). 14:59:51 @tell oerjan why the ocular suffering? 14:59:51 Consider it noted. 15:10:18 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 15:21:23 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:21:26 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:27:43 -!- boily has joined. 15:27:45 -!- asie has joined. 15:28:19 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:37:39 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:40:37 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 15:51:42 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:54:08 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:54:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:54:40 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:54:43 Hello! 15:54:46 Hi 16:17:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:18:30 -!- nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:18:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 16:20:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:20:43 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 16:20:46 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111118). 16:20:58 -!- yours_truly has joined. 16:23:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 16:23:44 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 16:26:54 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 16:27:32 -!- shikhin__ has changed nick to shikhin. 16:29:15 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:34:07 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:34:38 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:36:33 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:39:56 -!- conehead has joined. 16:43:05 sup 16:43:42 I've almost finished the first season of Supernatural 16:43:49 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:44:47 And now I'm going to make something to eat 16:45:21 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:45:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:47:09 i'm paying someone to make me eats 16:53:13 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111118). 16:53:17 do you know any good free ssh app for apple's iDevices? 16:53:20 I'm reading keats 16:53:40 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:54:14 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:54:17 -!- boily has joined. 16:54:29 -!- metasepia has joined. 16:54:51 what the fungot is wrong with my system. back from lunch, and kernel panic. 16:54:51 boily: http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/ fnord nice rating :) see ya, and thank you for your help 16:54:52 nortti: i used one once, it think. 16:55:03 boily! 16:55:09 quintopia: wrapped! 16:55:18 wrapped? 16:55:24 wrapped. 16:55:38 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:55:41 you know, paper, colours, stuff, wrapped. 16:56:04 wow 16:56:11 wrapped and shipped? 16:56:47 as in, you shall receive it shortly. 16:57:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:59:43 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 17:00:09 in approximately 8.5days in fact 17:00:18 for that is when i shall arrive 17:00:21 at home 17:00:31 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:01:34 home is where the fungot is, or something like that. 17:01:34 boily: on plt scheme... 17:01:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:01:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:01:43 fungot: I don't care about plt scheme. 17:01:43 boily: ( new-if t 3 7)) can also be formulated using the fnord fnord alphabet! 8d things i'm interested in scheme-to-forth compilation as well; i don't know c++ 17:02:06 fungot: is the fnord fnord alphabet related to tocharian B? 17:02:07 boily: niec thing about mzscheme is how easy it is 17:02:32 fungot: i'll let mz know his scheme is so easy 17:02:33 quintopia: open discussion about all things seems to change upon context... for instance 17:02:54 ah, good thing this discussion is CLOSED 17:02:57 thanks, Captain Fungobvious. 17:03:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:03:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:04:26 fungot: remind me, are you -98 or -93? 17:04:27 quintopia: ( because we got bored and wandered off. 17:04:37 damn, someone else? 17:05:17 where's a fizzie when you need one? 17:05:42 fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie fizzie ♪ 17:06:33 i had a great idea with some other folks for a new esolang the other day 17:06:41 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:06:55 with safety of C, the concision of Java, and the logic of PHP 17:08:14 -!- Bike has joined. 17:10:09 is it called c++? 17:10:31 quintopia: great 17:14:42 nortti: no. C++ has strong typing. this uses PHP-style typing. you can specify new types by giving their size explicitly. there is no pass-by-reference or name, just value. if you want to pass a function, you need to declare a type as big as the function, allocate enough memory to contain the function, and pass the entire block of memory containing the function. slightly safer than C i guess since there's no pointers. 17:15:14 mix in haskell and use lazy evaluation for everything 17:15:34 quintopia: also, implicit casting with strange comparison operators 17:15:47 myname: like i said, the logic of PHP 17:16:26 also, for added safety, all functions have explicit logical contracts, assertions that must hold, else runtime error 17:16:34 (all errors are runtime errors) 17:16:45 also, every function should take at most 2 arguments 17:17:21 all functions take one argument: a Dictionary 17:18:00 hmm, dictionary? that's too much like keyword arguments... maybe you could permute the function arguments of every function call in some way that depends on the call site? 17:18:02 that does not clutter your global namespace as much 17:18:24 quintopia: 98. 17:18:27 ^source 17:18:27 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 17:18:50 like: instead of f(a,b,c,d) you have to call f(a,(b,c,d)) which calls g(b,(c,d)) which calls h(c,d) 17:19:19 * boily subtly enfizzies the wisdom repo 17:20:44 olsner: you have to allocate and construct the dictionary explicitly before every call. very Safe. 17:21:18 a dictionary is just like keyword arguments though, it's excessively clear what goes where 17:21:30 boily: I accidentally marked the email announcing that as deleted, the subject line looked so spammy. 17:22:09 olsner: the dictionary allows only numerical keys 17:23:43 quintopia: suggestion from someone: implement exceptions but do not make stack unwielding 17:24:11 how would exceptions even be implemented with that kind of system? 17:24:12 oh we had this figured out already 17:24:24 oh, I see 17:24:29 every function must explicitly declare a handler function for every possible exception 17:24:45 there is no "throwing up the handler hierarchy" 17:25:20 too easy to abuse exception hierarchies 17:26:10 throwing exceptions up is too traditional. you need to be able to throw exceptions sideways. 17:26:42 throwing an exception makes a different thread handle it while the thrower just keeps charging along 17:27:01 Swallowing exceptions down 17:27:02 oooooooh... ☺ 17:27:08 Bike: I love you. 17:27:21 i love you too 17:28:41 alos there are classesm but there's no protected/private/public stuff. every method and field explicitly references which other classes are allowed to use it. it's Fully General and Very Safe. 17:29:11 Jafet: with explicit “throws SomeException” à la Java, you could pile exception onto exception onto exception in callees' scopes :D 17:30:13 Lexical cereal scoop 17:30:31 It is possible that I am hungry 17:30:39 more than that. every field and method has both blacklists and whitelists of which classes can use it. if a class is not on one of the two lists, that is a runtime error 17:31:34 In my hunger, this sounds like crossing a compiler ir with jvm bytecode 17:34:26 what's an “ir”? 17:34:34 intermediate representation 17:35:07 ~duck ir 17:35:08 ir definition: information retrieval. 17:35:30 No coincidence. 17:38:25 Your class system needs to be more modular. Allow inner class definitions. However, classes can only refer to their inner classes, as any other access would violate encapsulation. This makes actual code reuse impossible. 17:39:18 of course you can reuse code. copypasta! 17:46:52 you can also use macros or templates to generate copies of code 17:47:42 This can be alleviated if you introduce a language feature called something like "generics", but you don't have time to implement that just yet. 17:48:01 there should be something insaner than templates. 17:49:20 PHP is well-known for its builtin template system - just use to nest a block of code that prints code to put in the outer program 17:50:48 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:52:29 -!- asie has joined. 17:53:08 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 17:54:45 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 17:58:37 I'm making my own MarioLANG 99 Bottles program that WORKS. Still working on the BF. 18:02:21 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:02:35 -!- Bike has joined. 18:03:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:03:37 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:05:54 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:06:44 No one is talking. 18:06:51 That's a first for me. 18:06:53 Anyone else? 18:07:21 * boily singularly stays subtly stoic, so silent... 18:07:43 OK, how do you make messages say stuff like that? 18:07:48 Like without your name? 18:07:53 /me 18:07:57 At least not the one in <> 18:08:15 * JWinslow23 tries out the trick... 18:08:40 * JWinslow23 thanks avid for finding another time-waster 18:08:44 * avid nods 18:09:27 * JWinslow23 doesn't know what avid means by a "nod" 18:09:37 What feeling does it convey? 18:10:28 acknowledgement 18:11:00 JWinslow23: don't listen to Bike. it's a kind of bird. 18:11:06 Well, I'm almost done with the beginning of the BF 99 Bottles program to convert to MarioLANG. 18:11:21 * JWinslow23 lies to public... 18:11:29 I'm almost done! 18:13:48 Yeah, almost done...with the setup. 18:21:26 your work ethic is far too good to be a true esolanger! 18:22:00 No, it's very hard! I just started a few minutes ago. 18:23:52 the 'proof' of sumamoito's turing-completeness on the wiki is still a reference to the IRC logs of me and elliott sketching out an interpreter for BCT 18:27:23 I have done the setup. 18:27:26 Here it is. 18:27:26 >>>>++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]>+++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>++++[<++++++++>-]>+++++++[<++++++++++++++>-]>>++++[<++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>+++++++[<++++++++++++++>-]>>++++[<++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>++++++++[<+++++++++++++>-]++++++++++>>>+++++++[<++++++++++++>-]+>++++++++[<++++++++++++>-]>++++[<++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]>++++[<+++++++++++>-]++++++++++>>+>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]+>++++++++++[<++++ 18:27:41 Wait, there is more. 18:27:52 Apparently 535 is over the IRC limit for lines. 18:28:23 yeah 18:28:32 use sprunge.us or whatever if you need to move more code 18:28:39 What? 18:28:43 ...actually don't use sprunge because its for unix 18:28:53 use some pastebin 18:28:56 Clearly you need to make the program shorter. 18:28:57 i like http://bpaste.net/ 18:29:22 -!- yours_truly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:29:23 long live pastebin.ca! 18:29:33 http://bpaste.net/show/143835/ 18:30:12 good ending 18:31:09 It is supposed to go to cell 3. 18:34:49 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:35:21 JWinslow23: Made a brainfuck convert-o-matic: http://sprunge.us/KTUd 18:36:01 haha, it's practically the same 18:36:35 fizzie, post the download link. 18:36:35 Seems to work for 99 bottles, too. 18:36:44 It's not quite anywhere yet. 18:36:50 I'll need to put it somewhere. 18:37:07 sprunge links time out a bit too fast, which is a shame. 18:37:12 Also, I usually do .m instead of .mario 18:37:18 Is that a bother? 18:37:25 I don't think there's a standard extension. 18:37:46 JWinslow23: .m usually is some objective-C code. 18:37:58 boily: MATLAB, you peasant. 18:38:07 Let's just make it .smb 18:38:18 fizzie: I SHUN MATLAB. 18:38:54 fizzie: i do think you could make it more compact if you alternate directions on loops 18:39:00 i.e. 18:39:05 aa[bb]cc 18:39:13 to something like 18:39:21 aa[! 18:39:25 ===# 18:39:37 bb 18:39:48 ==" 18:39:54 > ! 18:39:56 :1:2: 18:39:56 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched ... 18:40:01 ye 18:40:04 ===# 18:40:10 cc < 18:40:15 That seems like work. 18:40:16 ===== 18:40:22 you get the idea? 18:40:36 also, insert missing [ 18:41:02 you will need preparsing for that 18:41:30 I suppose, but to reiterate, sounds a bit like work. 18:42:03 And the BF-MarioLANG thing, it works for nested loops? 18:42:03 I'm just wondering where to put this. 18:42:04 i do think the trickiest part is to get the width you can use 18:42:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:42:34 JWinslow23: It works for 99bob, which has some nested loops, so presumably. 18:42:40 Also, is a quine POSSIBLE in MarioLANG? 18:42:53 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:43:13 JWinslow23: go figure! 18:43:33 * JWinslow23 ponders... 18:43:43 What do you mean, myname? 18:43:52 go figure 18:43:53 try it 18:44:06 i doubt it, but i never wrote a quine ever 18:44:13 Do you know how far I got on a BF quine? 18:44:24 "uh you have to be able to write a quine by kleene's recursion theorem" 18:44:51 Bike: interesting 18:46:44 JWinslow23: any idea on how mario should act if he hits a wall? 18:47:17 maybe just try to walk against it 18:47:30 with his legs moving but him staying in place 18:47:34 myname, Mario should just think of a wall as a "do not pass no matter what" command. 18:47:57 or maybe he's smart and decides to change direction when he hits a wall 18:48:02 JWinslow23: i.e. standing still and posibly repeat the active command unlimited? 18:48:18 Yes, myname. 18:48:24 Koen_: that would make @ pretty useless 18:48:25 That's what I'm thinking. 18:48:29 also you should watch Under the Dome, it has plenty of cars crashing into walls 18:49:42 i may implement that, but i think it's pretty useless 18:50:08 Hey, I'm not WhiteWolf! I didn't put walls in the language! 18:51:36 https://gist.github.com/fis/7159823#file-bf2mario-py -- there you go. 18:52:04 In retrospect, adding the 99bob examples in there was kind of a bad, because they are first in sort order. 18:52:47 -!- augur has joined. 18:52:58 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:53:42 lol, how many columns does it have 18:54:02 Only 2966. 18:54:09 lol 18:54:23 plenty of space for optimising 18:54:30 Huh. 18:54:54 Maybe find a smaller 99BoB? 18:55:38 wait, do arrows allow Mario to fly? 18:55:52 "the arrow told me to go left, I DON'T CARE IF THERE'S NO GROUND" 18:56:26 Koen_: actually, in my implementation they do 18:56:27 Koen_: In the existing interpreter, I believe they do. 18:56:51 Koen_: do you consider this wrong? 18:57:00 well I guess that's consistent with the examples 18:57:17 myname: And I guess you can jump without standing, too? 18:57:18 I remember Mario jumping with ^ to reach an arrow 18:57:39 so ^ alone is an infinite loop? 18:57:39 fizzie: you can 18:57:43 yes 19:00:25 also, elevators only lift to the closest on top, not to the topmost 19:00:56 can't they lift you down? 19:01:08 they can 19:01:22 specification jut say, if it can move up, it will move up 19:01:51 but you can still do something like 19:01:53 " 19:01:54 # 19:01:55 " 19:01:56 # 19:02:14 the lowest elevator will move to the " above, not the topmost one 19:02:24 okay 19:02:25 the higher elevator will move to the topmost " 19:02:46 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:02:50 what if there's a third # on top of all this 19:02:52 if the topmost " wasn't there, both will move to the " between them 19:03:00 and Mario takes it first, so it has to move down to the first " 19:03:09 it will do 19:03:14 then Mario makes his way to the second #, will it still move up? 19:03:26 it does now 19:03:31 shouldn't it? 19:03:32 cause there's probably an elevator already occupying the upper " 19:03:44 so Mario would be crushed! 19:03:47 i did not consider them occupying 19:04:00 okay, imagine the following: 19:04:01 i.e. i assume they will move to their starting position 19:04:10 oh, okay 19:04:29 which is what you want in the bf2mario 19:04:39 because loops would be horrible otherwise 19:04:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:05:53 http://pastebin.com/7zuhsdhm << so here, when Mario comes back 19:06:02 he will just fall? 19:06:23 I still don't know how to run the python script. 19:06:25 well I guess in that example that doesn't matter 19:07:22 -!- Bike has joined. 19:09:32 * JWinslow23 waits. 19:10:09 How to run the python script? 19:12:22 well do you have a python interpreter or compiler on your computer? 19:12:23 bsaically like with ruby, but with 'python' instead of 'ruby' in the command 19:13:21 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:14:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:15:35 I have Python 2.6. 19:15:40 Bike: teaching by analogy 19:15:42 i like it 19:15:46 -!- fosap2 has joined. 19:16:50 it'll never catch on 19:17:09 Hi. I'm looking for a JSON based language. It uses Json as a syntax as lisp uses s-expressions as syntax. I can't find it anymore 19:17:53 OK, I'll try something. 19:18:10 It probably would not need many changes for a 2.x Python, possibly only the print function thing. 19:19:18 fosap2: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Myth ? 19:19:39 Never mind, works perfectly now that I know the syntax. 19:20:34 well, tha'ts not really like lisp at al. 19:20:36 Bike: No, it was pretty boring, lispy. 19:20:45 Yes, it works. 19:20:57 that seems to be the only article on the site mentioning json. 19:21:45 fosap2: http://www.jsol.org/ ? 19:23:26 Wow, and the generated code doesn't look valid. Not for 99BoB. 19:23:46 fizzie: yes! Hooray 19:24:01 It is, though. 19:24:12 -!- asie has joined. 19:32:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:32:31 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:35:02 So, what now? 19:35:07 Explore another language? 19:35:54 I'd say learn French, but any language in “F” should be fine. 19:36:41 F#, though, that's a shitty key 19:38:56 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:39:35 But functional! 19:41:33 “#” is shitty? 19:42:11 no, f sharp. you know, g flat 19:42:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:42:35 JWinslow23: optimize the hell out of these 99 bottles 19:42:41 Maybe we can make an interpreter for Tic Tac Toe. 19:42:42 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tic_Tac_Toe 19:43:16 I will try to do something with the 99BoB program. Until then, I'll explore other stuff. 19:44:03 Can someone make an interpreter for Tic-Tac-Toe? 19:44:09 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tic_Tac_Toe 19:45:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:46:18 JWinslow23: little quick question: why the 23? it mysteriously seems to be a popular nick suffix, as with ais523. 19:46:35 I was born on January 23. 19:46:42 And my mom was born on July 23. 19:47:36 @tell ais523 were you born in Undecember? 19:47:36 Consider it noted. 19:47:51 Someone should do something with http://esolangs.org/wiki/Drive-In_Window, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pancake_Stack, and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tic_Tac_Toe. 19:48:09 Until then, I'm on the wiki regularly, so post stuff on the talk pages. 19:48:13 I'm out! 19:48:17 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:50:52 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 19:51:09 -!- fosap2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:52:02 -!- fosap2 has joined. 19:53:04 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 19:53:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:58:01 -!- augur has joined. 20:02:35 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:05:48 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:07:33 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:11:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:14:38 -!- fosap2 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 20:14:56 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:15:15 -!- fosap2 has joined. 20:21:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ergnyeurghleeeerghghgh). 20:21:16 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:24:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:51:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:56:11 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:04:13 Was Googling for [[ "compaq presario cds633" price ]] (we had one, was trying to locate a price) -- got 5 results, of which one was from #esoteric logs. 21:04:23 Presumably after this two of them will be. 21:09:01 -!- yorick has joined. 21:10:15 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:10:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:17:41 Koen_: bit late, but mario will just stay on top of the " 21:17:49 oh 21:17:50 no 21:17:56 he will fall 21:18:25 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 21:19:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:19:22 Koen_: is that something you don't agree to? the example code in the wiki looks a lot like " are solid 21:20:40 I sort of thought that "intuitively" the "s in the example were solid because the elevator as a whole has risen. 21:20:57 ah 21:21:01 hmm 21:21:08 But that's not the sort of thing that one'd like to implement. 21:21:13 that would be pretty hard to implement in comparison 21:22:11 So many corners. 21:22:35 also it would break nearly every code in the discussion that uses loops 21:25:04 Many of them tend to have explicit arrows over all "s so I don't think it'd matter all that much. (Disclaimer: haven't looked at the discussion so much.) 21:25:04 i.e. if you assume that the elevator rises and will stay on top so you can walk over it, you could not use it another time because you would get squeezed until you bring it back down (which is pretty useless) OR you make the spot where the elevator was non-blocking which i find a bit unintuitive 21:26:26 It could just move back immediately when you get off the "s. But I admit that's a bit vague. 21:27:19 myname: well I had always assumed the elevator really was moving 21:27:37 so basically, the # and " get switched 21:27:46 swapped 21:28:08 Koen_: how do you get back down? you should have a ! both on top and on bottom 21:28:17 oh 21:28:23 weeeeeeeeell 21:28:46 I'm sure it's *possible*. Especially if the elevator moves as a whole slab. It'd just make writing loops really quite annoying. 21:28:50 it would make 1-wide elevators practically useless 21:28:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:29:05 yeah, and interpreting it, too 21:29:21 well then we have to use 2-wide elevators 21:29:28 i may try that, but personally i do not find it very relevant 21:29:38 no, but that's more realistic 21:29:45 the elevator really moved 21:29:48 i thought they moved like elevators in SMB. 21:30:05 you know, an infinite stream in one directionn. 21:30:06 Realism 21:30:14 Bike: that's what i thought, too 21:30:27 i imagined the " more like a point where you get off 21:31:04 So how was your interpretation of walking over "s? Drops down unless there's an explicit arrow? 21:31:56 i just assumed you walk over one bar of the infinite stream 21:32:01 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 21:32:43 Arguably that kind of means that you'd proceed horizontally every time you enter an elevator "shaft". 21:33:03 (Realism.) 21:33:23 huh? 21:34:05 Well, I mean, like http://sprunge.us/EZPH 21:34:26 @messages-loud 21:34:26 boily said 6h 34m 35s ago: why the ocular suffering? 21:34:34 If the """s are just drop-off markers and you walk over them because you'd walk over one bar of the infinite stream, the same should logically apply to all intervening spaces. 21:34:43 I thought having a ! over a # was needed because the relative speeds of the elevator and mario were unspecified 21:35:03 @tell boily i've had an unusal amount of eye strain and problems of focusing the last few days. 21:35:03 Consider it noted. 21:35:26 fizzie: in theory, yes, but that would make timing relevant, which is really annoying for both the coder and the interpreter 21:35:41 so if mario enters an elevator without stopping, we won't know at which altitude he walks out (and probably falls) 21:35:55 myname: It would not make timing any more relevant than the way you can walk across ###s and """s without moving vertically at all unless you stop in place. 21:36:44 fizzie: you say you should just "disable gravity" between " and #? 21:36:47 @tell boily right now also a slight headache, despite just sitting down at the laptop. might be connected. also i'm worried it might be because i've taken _too much_ painkillers lately. 21:36:47 Consider it noted. 21:37:04 myname: I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying there's an argument to be made for that, in the name of "realism". 21:38:06 (Though if one went that far, a floating ! on the same height should also probably make Mario rise up.) 21:38:11 fizzie: that would be the most realistic and implementable way i can think of 21:38:43 also it shouldn't break anything existing 21:39:02 likely i will implement that 21:40:11 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:41:06 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 21:41:17 maybe not disable gravity, but trigger the elevator 21:41:32 Koen_: huh? 21:41:35 so the elevator will start moving up when you step between it and " 21:41:47 exactly as if you had stepped exactly over the # 21:42:48 so mario will either be lifted up to the ", (because he fell onto the moving-up elevator), or walk out of the column at some point (if he did not encounter a !) 21:43:12 hmm 21:43:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:43:25 I seem to recall the specifications explicitly stating that the relative speeds of mario's and the elevator's were unspecified 21:43:38 okay 21:43:43 so the coder shouldn't know if mario manages to jump out of the elevator or not 21:44:13 that would be a great source to create randomness 21:44:42 well, "unspecified" and "random" aren't exactly synonyms 21:45:19 but "unspecified" can also mean "it has a different speed whenever you move onto it" 21:45:38 All the (related) existing code probably does assume you can walk over an arbitrary sequence of ###s without moving vertically at all, unless you explicitly stop. 21:46:13 you can if mario is infinitely faster than the elevator :) 21:46:32 Another thing I was sort of wondering when writing the bf thing (it turned out to be not relevant) is whether "[ x" should skip over the x or not (if it would skip at all). It just says "next command". 21:46:35 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:46:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:46:56 fizzie: what code? 21:47:30 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:47:31 What "what code"? 21:47:33 fizzie: interesting, my current implementation actually just ignores the next cell, whatever that is 21:47:39 i recall when making Malbolge Unshackled, i took great pains to ensure the unspecified length increase could not be relied on to be either random or not random. 21:47:44 Oh, that was to the earlier comment. 21:47:47 fizzie: the code that looks like you can walk over ### 21:48:04 *when implementing 21:48:28 Well, all the [! kind of things do seem to assume you can at least walk over a single # without moving up/down. 21:48:58 I guess that's about it. 21:48:59 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:49:01 yeah 21:49:07 It's not like there's a large body of MarioLANG code around. 21:49:19 Unshackled.hs:76:9: parse error on input `<-' <-- seems it needs some updating. 21:49:34 so you could say it moves the tick after you move on top of it 21:49:47 hmm, found a 90MB file called music.raw in a random directory 21:49:52 I wonder what it is and which format 21:50:59 If you buy the "endless stream, always in motion" argument, the official elevator example kind of assumes that you can walk over """ without anything nasty (like falling down a bit when the elevator disappears or whatever it does) happening. 21:51:13 olsner: Raw PCM tends to be quite easy to identify. 21:51:55 ah, aplay -f cd did play it ... I suspect demo music, but I don't recognize it 21:52:01 fizzie: if should however make it possible to walk over any gap between " and # 21:52:08 (Basically just "go with whatever sample size and endianness that gives you small numbers at the beginning/end and a reasonable-looking envelope overall".) 21:52:08 because the elevator could be there 21:52:20 TIL there's a wchar_t version of memmove(3), namely wmemmove(3) 21:53:22 I guess its semantics differ if your buffers overlap by half of a wchar_t? 21:54:12 wchar_t * __wmemmove (s1, s2, n) wchar_t *s1; const wchar_t *s2; size_t n; { return (wchar_t *) memmove ((char *) s1, (char *) s2, n * sizeof (wchar_t)); } weak_alias (__wmemmove, wmemmove) 21:54:16 (glibc) 21:54:24 maybe not, then 21:54:30 i'm slightly scared that you have libc source handy like that 21:54:30 I'm sure there's probably a good reason why that doesn't have a prototype. 21:54:41 It's called Google. 21:54:53 glibc contains code known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects, and other reproductive harm 21:55:10 hmm, I suspect two wchar_t* aren't allowed to overlap with half a wchar in general 21:55:13 I wonder why that exists 21:55:16 Rust should support a #[prop_65]; annotation 21:55:26 public service announcement: there is an extinct coelacanth genus called "Rebellatrix". en public service announcement 21:56:20 a byte-at-a-time left-to-right memcpy is also a correct memmove right? 21:56:24 doesn't rust just cause tetanus? 21:56:35 I think the direction depends on where the overlap is 21:56:41 well, not "just", tetanus is pretty nasty. 21:56:56 Bike: rust doesn't cause tetanus, tetanus does 21:57:00 olsner: oh, I guess so :/ 21:57:06 A correct memmove is a correct memcpy, however. 21:57:32 sure 21:57:43 (For all them lazy people.) 21:58:21 i associate tetanus with stabbing myself with rusty nails. i wonder why that is 21:58:25 I guess memmove just copies in one direction or the other 21:58:36 based on comparing the pointers first 21:58:39 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 21:58:45 tetanus is a weird disorder btw 21:58:55 memmove should delete the old memory, clearly. otherwise it's copying 21:59:09 "he rust itself does not cause tetanus nor does it contain more C. tetani bacteria. The rough surface of rusty metal merely provides a prime habitat for C. tetani endospores to reside in, and the nail affords a means to puncture skin and deliver endospores deep within the body at the site of the wound." oh 21:59:11 and it should just remap pages when it can 21:59:14 the* 21:59:25 kmc: Fun fact: you can't compare the pointers in a strictly-portable-C implementation of memmove, because they might point to different objects. 21:59:39 sigh 21:59:48 fizzie: Is it possible to write memmove in strictly-portable-C? 22:00:09 so rust doesn't /cause/ tetanus, just provides a prime habitat for (organisms which in turn generate neurotoxins which in turn generate) tetanus. 22:00:19 shachaf: I think it is, it just takes O(n) memory. 22:00:22 please factor this into #[prop_65] 22:00:25 http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57608585-93/is-google-building-a-hulking-floating-data-center-in-sf-bay/ they have a large barge with a radio antenna tower on it that they can charge up and discharge 22:00:30 hmm, is memmove supposed to work across different objects? 22:00:40 fizzie: Oh, right, copy to a separate buffer first. 22:00:44 olsner: Sure, why not? 22:01:17 memmove ought to be the default. 22:01:26 Which is why it's the default in Rust! 22:01:34 fizzie: maybe to allow memmove to be implemented efficiently in pure c? 22:01:58 or perhaps just to be asses in general and make more stuff undefined 22:02:09 olsner: "memmove -- Copies n characters from the object pointed to by s2 into the object pointed to by s1. Copying takes place as if the n characters from the object pointed to by s2 are first copied into a temporary array of n characters that does not overlap the objects blah blah blah." 22:02:14 olsner: It would be much less useful that way. 22:02:41 shachaf: that was pretty much why I suspected it might be the case 22:04:27 Some people might prefer there to be a third memcpy/memmove variant that's always a bytewise left-to-right copy, though, because you can do repeating things with it. 22:04:59 Maybe it's a bit of a niche. 22:05:38 * oerjan fixed Unshackled.hs (it just needed a couple of LANGUAGE pragmas. well probably. i didn't actually _run_ it, just compile.), for all those waiting to program it. 22:05:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:06:01 shachaf: did you see that Rust passed issue #10,000 recently 22:06:02 hi zzo38 ! 22:06:06 how are you? 22:06:12 kmc: Hello 22:06:14 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 22:06:15 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:06:29 I am OK, do you have another question? 22:06:44 Yes. Do you think "Rebellatrix" is a cool name. 22:06:56 Name of what? 22:07:01 fizzie: used often enough for compression that it would probably be useful to apply some of all the work that went into memcpy on that 22:07:08 *decompression 22:07:13 A coelacanth genus. 22:07:20 kmc: no 22:07:25 kmc: that's a lot of issues 22:07:49 i'll stick with php 22:08:32 oh, php passed 2^16 bugs recently 22:08:36 according to https://bugs.php.net/ 22:08:40 olsner: I presume lot of the work (all those SSE copy things) is rather inapplicable. But I guess they could do *something* clever about it. (On the other hand, it might be a generic "memrepeat" interface, because that has more freedom for implementation perhaps.) 22:08:59 I hope they celebrated bug #65536. 22:09:29 "Bug #65536: getimagesize() returning wrong value for IMG_PNG" 22:09:34 That sounds kind of boring. 22:10:06 "Thank you for taking the time to write to us, but this is not a bug." 22:10:16 awwwwww. 22:10:27 at work we got to build 65536 just the other day 22:10:28 "Thank you for playing. Better luck next time!" 22:10:35 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:11:31 (fun fact: the field of symbian's version thingy (we used) to put build numbers in is a signed 16-bit int) 22:11:39 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:13:24 Fun fact: tried to run some HTK-using scripts today, and was missing a file list file, so somehow something somewhere decided to use all the files in my home directory (recursively) as the source features. 22:13:37 That included a lot of pdfs, jpegs and whatnot. 22:13:53 Not sure if it's HTK's fault or the (third-party) scripts' fault. 22:14:15 that's impressive 22:14:56 sounds like a potentially interesting use of markov thingies, if it could manage to produce working jpegs and pdfs from it 22:15:31 Sadly, it just complained of every file that it isn't a HTK parameter file. 22:15:37 meh 22:16:03 olsner: yeah, my friend had the same problem (do you work at moka5.com ???) 22:16:12 olsner: this was the basis of their rush project to switch to Git 22:16:42 I do not work at moka5.com :) 22:17:46 we rageswitched to Git when creating branches started taking a whole day 22:18:13 taskFiles=`ls *tmp* ` # okay, it's the third-party script. 22:18:20 (after some time of preparing for a reasonable migration, though) 22:18:23 (It managed to go to ~/tmp/ with that.) 22:18:59 nice. 22:19:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:19:09 Because of tmpDir=`mktemp -d -p $(dirname $scpFile)` failing and cd $tmpDir being a plain "cd", I think. 22:19:21 (scpFile is the file that wasn't there.) 22:21:42 htkallas@spa-ws160:~$ ls 22:21:43 C:\nppdf32Log\debuglog.txt 22:21:47 That thing is kind of annoying me. 22:22:46 I wonder how many commits there are in total on (e.g.) github 22:23:06 (I think it's a fopen("C:\\nppdf32Log\\debuglog.txt", "w"); somewhere, and their mechanism for enabling logging is for the user to make that directory, because they assume the fopen to fail if it doesn't exist.) 22:23:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:24:40 -!- fosap2 has quit (Quit: Verlassend). 22:25:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:26:24 (scpFile is the file that wasn't there.) <-- sounds likely, but which scp is it. 22:27:16 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 22:29:11 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:30:06 olsner: 65341534 PushEvents in the http://www.githubarchive.org/ timeline, according to a fancy Google BigQuery thingathing. 22:30:24 (I don't know what these events are.) 22:30:40 http://sprunge.us/HZBg anyway. 22:31:17 It's collecting statistics on the timeline thing, so no counting of individual commits, sadly. 22:32:31 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 22:33:03 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:41:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:51:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:56:08 I did have the idea, of a kind of MUD game. One is that each character (both PC and NPC) belong to an account, and each account has no more than one character. Account names are separate from character names. If your character dies you can either create a new one or accept a resurrection if someone does it (which costs a lot, though). PCs and NPCs are mostly treated equivalently, although PCs are characters owned by an account that owns itself. 22:56:21 -!- Oj742 has joined. 22:58:08 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 22:58:09 To calculate experience points earned if one character kills another, first calculate the "kill score", which is: $$k={\rm max}\left(\left\lfloor pf{\rm e}^{\root3\of{v_L-(v_W+v'_W)}}-x_W\right\rfloor,x_W+1\right)$$ where k = kill score, p = PK multipler, f = effort multiplier, v_L = loser's character value, v_W = winner's character value, v'_W = winner's artificial value, x_W = winner's experience level. 23:00:11 After that, look up the pair of the winner and loser's account numbers (not character numbers) in the kill high score table, and subtract that from the kill score in order to determine how many experience points the winner earns (if it is negative, it is truncated to zero). If this kill score is greater than the recorded value it is then updated. 23:02:10 The PK multiplier is 250 if NPC kills NPC, 1000 if PC kills NPC or NPC kills PC, and 4000 if PC kills PC. The effort multiplier is a number from 1 to 2 depending on how hard you try to win. 23:02:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:02:37 Character value is calculated by adding and multiplying things such as ability scores, species, skills, etc. 23:02:40 Do you like this so far? 23:02:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:06:27 zzo38: how do battle happen? 23:06:52 Koen_: Well, you have to find someone and attack them, or cause them to be dead in another way. 23:07:35 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:07:37 Or they do it to you instead, if that is the case. 23:07:49 I think the attack mechanisms are more important than the formula used to calculate the experience points! 23:08:38 Yes, I just mentioning how to calculate XP for now. Quests are worth a lot more than battles, although quests too would have a high score table so that you cannot gain the points again each time. 23:08:47 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:10:24 In addition, when you create a new character in the same account, your new character can start at any start point you have unlocked, can have a level anywhere from zero to one less than your old character's level, and any options for the character's name, skills, species, ability scores, etc are automatically filled in but can be edited. 23:12:11 If killed more than twice in succession you aren't forced to lose more than two levels though; it is limited to two. In addition, the new character is invulnerable to being killed by any account that has killed your account in the past five minutes (unless you are in the home of whoever killed you). 23:13:20 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:14:54 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 23:14:55 -!- Oj742 has quit (Quit: irc2go). 23:15:56 All of these rules are designed to avoid getting too many experience points by killing the same guy over again a lot of times and to avoid someone stopping you from passing some point with every new character you create. 23:16:41 Players who have been disconnected for 60 seconds cannot be attacked but may still be robbed. 23:18:40 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Client Quit). 23:21:14 There are no PK-safe areas. Player killing is allowed everywhere, and is worth more points than attacking NPCs, so it is worth it. It is legitimate to hide and kill someone when they are attempting a quest so that you can do it instead, to band with another player and then fight them when they least expect it, and so on; these are all considered legitimate tactics. 23:22:49 Is these specification OK for you so far? 23:23:30 yup 23:24:04 Do you like this kind of game so far? I wanted to play but didn't find any 23:24:39 the only thing I can think of is urbandead 23:26:21 there are no npc though 23:26:37 In addition, changes to the environment are permanent, not reset like in many games (so some quests may be impossible to complete more than once), it is alignmentless, there can be human character and monster character and many other kind, also class-less, no auto-fight-back, and you need not use all of your points to create a character; you can discard some. 23:27:01 If you die, you lose all of your money, bank, equipment, etc, but if your new character can find where your old one died you may be able to rob the corpse. 23:27:14 Is this OK? 23:27:23 (Your score is kept, and so are all of your options.) 23:27:50 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 23:28:28 I like that 23:28:48 though this may be heavy on the memory if players die a lot? 23:29:10 since you'd have to store all the corpses and things they were carrying 23:29:50 Yes, although corpses can decompose, objects can be destroyed, etc 23:30:00 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:33:39 And piles of equivalent things can be stored as a single record 23:42:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:50:03 zzo38: is \left( supported in Plain TeX? 23:50:05 I did not know 23:50:14 kmc: Yes. 23:50:36 kmc: \left and \right are primitive TeX commands. 23:52:12 why does memset(3) take its byte argument as an 'int'? 23:53:01 normal c convention, maybe 23:53:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:53:31 i thought C used chars as bytes (and ints as characters) 23:53:58 is it specified what happens if you pass memset smoething bigger than a byte? 23:54:34 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5919735/why-does-memset-take-an-int-instead-of-a-char has a suggestion 23:55:15 that's uh, hm. 23:55:22 sounds strange 23:55:34 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:55:34 fiora: void *memset(void *b, int c, size_t len); The memset() function writes len bytes of value c (converted to an unsigned char) to the byte string b. 23:55:35 answers fiora's question too. 23:56:02 (from the man) 23:56:46 you can't trust the man 23:57:47 i was wondering if it had something to do with ambiguous signedness of char, but you could always write 'unsigned char' 23:57:58 ah "Without a prototype, you can't pass a char to a function" welp 23:58:34 (welp 'char) ; => NIL 23:59:10 I guess without a prototype you can't pass onlything except ints 23:59:28 I wonder how that works if you need a pointer