2013-10-01: 00:13:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:14:17 -!- azaq23 has joined. 00:17:48 -!- Ghoul__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:17:56 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:25:35 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24328773 news article about hot, naked finns 00:41:28 exactly what i expected. 00:42:25 it's cool that you can get a sauna box for watching the ice hockey game 00:43:03 -!- Ghoul__ has joined. 00:57:12 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:58:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:00:07 If Racket-style metaprogramming is compilation-like, and Tcl-style metaprogramming is interpretation-like, what is Ruby-style metaprogramming? 01:01:26 I don't know 01:05:08 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:05:14 kmc: bbc's habit of dropping all accents looks really weird when clashing with finnish vowel harmony 01:05:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:05:51 like, i _new_ loyly couldn't be correct, despite never having seen the word before. 01:06:06 *_knew_ 01:06:17 "If compilers can't understand the program, humans probably don't have a good shot either" 01:06:21 Exact quote 01:06:31 (or almost) 01:07:34 kmc: and it gets particularly ridiculous when they're making a short _dictionary_... 01:08:12 What is Forth-style metaprogramming, Unofficial-MagicKit-style metaprogramming, CLC-INTERCAL-style metaprogramming, etc? 01:10:38 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:19:39 bonghits-style metaprogramming 01:23:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:25:37 in http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24330722 they managed to keep an ı in kısanak but dropped a lot of other accents. 01:25:49 (also that looks like some progress) 01:27:20 maybe the policy is that they will always remove dots but never add them 01:27:41 XD 01:28:44 well sirri sakik should have had the dots dropped too, so it's simply very inconsistent. 01:31:16 (also gulten kısanak is still not _correct_, there are two other letters that _should_ have accents. and wikipedia thinks the e should be an a.) 01:32:06 my font makes ı look ugly :( 01:32:12 it should look exactly the same as i without the dot, yeah? 01:32:23 It does here. 01:33:28 does for me. 01:34:43 what about İ 01:35:15 İ and I look similar 01:35:49 Who is İ? 01:36:04 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 01:36:26 ♥ 01:36:32 that was the only reason i came back 01:37:31 oerjan: what is it and why does it sapple 01:37:40 *SHES 01:38:07 sorry my recollection of dmm australian is weak 01:38:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:44:59 `addquote aaaaaurgh. you're making me think on a Monday! that shouldn't be happening! 01:45:03 1114) aaaaaurgh. you're making me think on a Monday! that shouldn't be happening! 01:56:58 -!- augur has joined. 02:15:11 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 02:17:57 (define-syntax-rule (defer . e) 02:17:58 (defer-funcall ((λ () . e)))) 02:18:17 err, Racket? Some languages don't have lambda syntax that's so verbose people feel like reaching for macros to hide them in 02:27:06 Ok, I'll admit how the list of definitions in DrRacket knows about defines produced by macros 02:27:11 ^that that's neat 02:48:24 At least from a "that would be completely impossible in Tcl" standpoint 02:55:12 <^v> am i looking at an entire convorsation 02:55:20 <^v> because it seems you are talking to yourself 02:59:48 ^v: we get that a lot around here 03:02:54 this is nothing against oklopol's famous monologues 03:20:13 ^v: Sometimes an entire conversation does involve talking to yourself, in here, mostly in case someone else doesn't want to answer for some reason (such as not knowing the answer, or not on the IRC window) 03:24:39 There's an obvious type mismatch between Qoppa and Racket 03:24:50 Racket functions take values, Qoppa operatives take code 03:25:33 Qoppa "functions" should ideally just be operatives that eval the code they're passed, so can't just say "Only Qoppa functions may be passed to Racket code" 03:26:10 Maybe Racket values, when given to a Qoppa operative, are sort of opaque things that the only thing you can do with them is eval to get an actual value 03:47:29 those were the days 03:48:35 the days were those. 03:48:57 also i have a feeling the guy who wrote the sauna article has never even been to a finnish sauna 03:49:06 "Within seconds a wave of moist heat creeps up around your ankles and over your legs before enveloping your whole body. Your pores open up and sweat covers you from head to toe." 03:49:19 creeps up around your ankles? 03:51:55 also loyly should obviously have umlaut 04:04:36 oklopol: see further discussion about how they mangled turkish 04:06:26 perhaps i should have called them qopperatives 04:07:43 yeah i kind of guessed that you have already mentioned the loyly issue 04:08:23 http://i.imgur.com/diPCS5C.jpg 04:08:24 they could have at least written loulu 04:08:46 kmc: thanks for the nightmares 04:08:48 yw 04:09:25 http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1nhglw/test_alliance_is_disbanding/ 04:14:58 welp the US government is officially shut down 04:15:33 happy mad max day! hand over your fucking water or i'll blow your head off 04:15:49 kmc: have fun 04:16:16 Bike: well if you were in #ptopology you'd already know where I stashed the water 04:16:27 :o 04:16:34 btw the deal in exchange for me telling y'all where I put the emergency water is, you have to promise not to murder me in an apocalyptic looting-type scenario unless I've already turned into a zombie. in that case, go nuts, have fun with it 04:16:50 does "fun" include experimentation 04:17:16 zombi-curious 04:18:40 i was thinking more like, vivisection, but i'm willing to spread out. like, mentally, in addition to spreading out your orifices. 04:18:56 that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me 04:23:55 <^v> kmc is the worst person to ever live, i dont fucking care what you say but he has destroyed more peoples lives than hitler and god and godhitler combined 04:24:09 <^v> i mean 04:24:11 <^v> hi kmc 04:24:23 hi <3 04:25:03 "godhitler" are we talking about persona 2 here? 04:28:38 veni, vidi, fovit 04:28:54 <^v> no 04:29:04 <^v> we are talking about the pussy version of kmc 04:29:22 <^v> (sorry, is swearing allowed in this chan) 04:29:29 * ^v dies 04:30:01 no it fuckin ain't 04:30:05 "pussy" is kind of a shitty insult though 04:30:19 ^v: I do not think there is a rule against it, but nevertheless I advise against swearing too often that that just convolutes stuff. 04:30:20 imo the whole "calling someone the worst person to ever live for no reason" thing is the bigger issue 04:30:30 Fiora: i forget, was the hitler god or someone else 04:31:56 I don't know 04:31:57 I didn't play 2 04:32:17 uh wow i thought you were a persona authority? way to lie about your authority 04:32:17 I just know persona involves killing god and 2 has hitler somehow 04:32:22 I only know 3 and 4 >_< 04:32:28 i should mention that hitler is also your dad 04:32:30 good game imo 04:33:54 Bike: http://web.archive.org/web/20110110081155/http://overcompensating.com/posts/20080603.html 04:35:04 `pastequotes fuck 04:35:14 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17910 04:35:17 i wish i was self cleaning 04:35:24 aren't you 04:35:47 `quote 242 04:35:49 242) okay see in my head it went, you send from your other number smth like "i'd certainly like to see you in those pink panties again" and she's like "WHAT?!? Sgeo took a pic?!?!?! that FUCKING PIG" 04:35:54 pretty curious about the context of this one................ 04:36:59 There was a woman who seemed to like me but when I texted her had no idea who I was 04:37:10 Even though I had given her my number before 04:37:19 And had texted her before telling her who was texting her 04:37:32 ...that sounds creepy 04:37:39 oh :/ 04:37:46 did she have pink panties tho 04:38:05 I have no idea. 04:38:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20342 04:38:26 erm, wait no 04:38:56 `pastelog pink panties 04:39:22 https://www.healthcare.gov/ "just to rub it in" 04:39:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25271 04:41:08 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-02-28 why is this broken 04:41:54 the formatted logs are broken. the text logs are ok. (GREGOR) 04:42:57 http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-02-28.txt 04:47:38 -!- Ghoul__ has changed nick to \t. 04:48:08 -!- \t has changed nick to Guest88757. 04:48:45 These Realm of Racket videos are making my eyes bleed 04:48:46 -!- Guest88757 has changed nick to Ghoul_. 04:48:59 "OOH LOOK RACKET HAS AUTOMATIC GARBAGE COLLECTION" 04:49:53 manual garbage collection 04:53:47 so how much are the rating agencies gonna downrate the USA this time 04:54:27 it's not in a debt default 04:54:38 was it the last time they did? 04:54:42 no 04:54:57 the government is no longer allowed to spend money on many things 04:55:09 it has a bunch of provisions in place for money that needs to be paid, like debts and essential services 04:55:30 this is what happened in the 90s 04:55:52 the thing that people were panicing about before and might happen again come October is the debt ceiling 04:56:11 if that gets hit, the government can no longer borrow money, and at that point it actually runs out of money and can't even spend it on essential stuff 04:56:18 on the bright side, my firefighting-for-profit business will really shine 04:56:21 oh i thought this _was_ the debt ceiling. 04:56:28 oerjan: no, it's appropriations 04:56:39 because currently the only way that the US government can work is by borrowing massive amounts of money very rapidly 04:56:44 @wn appropriations 04:56:47 No match for "appropriations". 04:56:54 NO SUCH WORD 04:56:56 oerjan: basically the authorization to spend money 04:57:00 oops. 04:57:12 put some chocolate next to my CPU 04:57:20 (next to laptop on desk) 04:57:34 http://www.usda.gov <-- alright i'm officially bugging out 04:57:37 oerjan: the authorization to spend money is the giant carrot for the administration to do what congress wants 04:58:16 Bike: very funny... hm... yeah... hm... 04:59:04 right you and your non-parliamentarism 04:59:38 oerjan: it ain't mine 04:59:44 and the Westminster system works exactly the same way 04:59:54 the debt ceiling is about paying the interest on the loans for money we've /already borrowed/ isn't it 05:00:00 except that if this were any Westminster system, the PM would have already been sent packing 05:00:03 kmc: p. much 05:00:21 anyway we could still get downrated for having fucked politics 05:00:24 that was part of the last downrating 05:00:39 kmc: yeah, and this has shown that the Dems and Reps won't compromise even when it has big consequences 05:00:45 I would not be totally surprised by a downgrade 05:00:59 but it won't be "OH FUCK OH FUCK OH FUCK" quite yet 05:01:14 coppro: so, how likely do you think we are to deal with climate change sanely? 05:01:17 if the US hits the debt ceiling, it will be a while before it actually defaults since it can cut spending, etc. 05:01:21 Sgeo: you? 0% 05:01:24 us? 1% 05:01:51 yes let's 'compromise' with the dangerous extremists who use hostage taking as their one and only political tool 05:02:14 kmc: you're referring to the tea party, right? 05:02:17 yeah 05:02:37 the whole "both parties are at fault for not getting along" is garbage 05:03:06 Republicans don't mind wrecking the government to prove a political point 05:03:22 they believe govt is the problem and they are determined to use their position of power to prove it 05:03:44 they care more about hurting Obama and the Democrats even if they destroy the economy in the process 05:03:57 these are not people you "compromise" with 05:04:18 -!- fizzie has changed nick to fizziev. 05:04:37 ssize_t fizziev(int fd, const struct iovec *iov, int iovcnt); 05:04:46 kmc: I agree with you 05:05:02 we are basically fucked as long as the members of the 10% approval congress are still inexplicably getting reelected 05:05:02 kmc: now go fix it 05:05:58 heh usa.gov is prominently still advertising the health marketplace plan :P 05:06:17 https://www.healthcare.gov/ 05:06:41 kmc: like, seriously. Get everyone you know to get out there and get on the campaign warpath 05:07:21 and don't just complain about shit on the internets 05:07:26 Sgeo: you too 05:07:38 if you don't care, start goddamn caring 05:07:39 thx for the advice coppro 05:07:57 because your country is running itself into the fucking ground and taking the rest of us with it 05:07:59 kmc: i'm just thinking that the government might be particularly pissing off the republicans by not shutting that down 05:08:01 kmc is a coppro philiac 05:08:05 c.c 05:08:30 oerjan: The authors of obamacare did their work and made sure it was appropriated already 05:08:37 they're allowed to spend money on it 05:10:51 right, but it's still waving a red flag 05:10:56 oh sure 05:11:16 WE 05:11:30 'RE GONNA KEEP OBAMACARE GOING IF NOTHING ELSE IS 05:11:59 mad max but everyone has good hospital coverage 05:12:21 Bike: are you usaian? 05:12:33 `? bike 05:12:36 Bike is from Luxembourg. 05:12:49 * oerjan whistles innocently 05:12:54 (I refuse to call you american right now because I share a continent with you egotistical maniacs) 05:12:57 oerjan: thanks 05:12:59 -!- fizzie has joined. 05:13:07 Sgeo, kmc: this is your mess: http://www.oecd.org/media/oecdorg/satellitesites/newsroom/44222075health%20expenditure.jpg 05:13:07 a mexican, eh 05:13:13 what's mexican healthcare even like 05:13:36 coppro: i'm whistling innocently because i've never got the full impression of the truthfulness of that wisdom. 05:13:59 also bike is definitely connecting from the usa 05:14:28 Bike: probably socialist 05:14:49 anything HackEgo says is true 05:18:02 hm norway and luxembourg are the only ones with larger public expenditure, although much less private of course 05:19:59 Back during Martha Coakley's campaign, I did make some calls for her campaign 05:20:04 they just "opened" trondheim's renovated hospital (it's been running all through the rebuilding process) 05:25:18 -!- ^v has changed nick to dan200. 05:25:41 looking at raw data 05:26:02 there are only 6 OECD countries that spend more on health care per capita than the US private sector does 05:27:58 Why did the PLT team design such a .. bizarre OO system for Racket 05:32:37 -!- ^v has joined. 05:33:35 -!- dan200 has changed nick to 20WAC83QP. 05:33:35 -!- 20WAC83QP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:34:29 -!- monotone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:34:38 -!- monotone has joined. 05:36:12 -!- carado has joined. 05:36:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: why am i not in bed already). 05:51:34 kmc: http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/30/shutdown-imminent-how-he-said-she-said-reporting-helped-bring-us-to-the-brink/ nice article re: "both parties are at fault for not getting along", if you haven't seen it yet 05:52:39 i guess it's still a nice article if you have seen it. 06:15:35 Have you programmed in SNOBOL? 06:15:49 nope 06:17:12 Neither have I 06:21:28 -!- zanahoria123 has joined. 06:22:26 -!- zanahoria123 has left ("Leaving..."). 06:27:15 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Sandiwch). 06:38:15 Is this OK so far? http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/hwpl.txt Tell me what kind of things may be added/removed/changed/idea/question/complain. 07:07:34 The "interleave" and "select" operators of INTERCAL are built-in to HWPL (although the "interleave" operator is called MORTON). 07:09:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:11:17 :) 07:11:39 What about :)? 07:12:02 I'm pretty happy today 07:12:11 Is there any reason? 07:12:13 Yes 07:12:31 What reason? 07:12:31 Last night I found out that someone I met at uni has read my MSPAFA 07:12:46 What is MSPAFA? 07:13:03 MS Paint Adventures Fan Adventure 07:13:11 It's a story in the format of MSPA 07:13:16 OK 07:13:58 sounds adventurous 07:14:04 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:14:19 Also, someone's just followed me on Tumblr I think because I posted some Haskell 07:14:37 Taneb: do you follow me on twitter 07:15:36 I think so 07:16:08 oh, right 07:16:13 was it because of haskell i posted 07:16:17 give that tumblrer some haskell 07:16:24 tumblerers love haskell 07:17:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:18:11 shachaf, no it was because you linked it once 07:18:24 oh 07:18:34 were all the tweets to your satisfaction 07:18:35 has shachaf tweeted anything yet? 07:18:50 olsner: yes (but no more than last time) 07:19:02 I don't know I haven't been on twitter in ages 07:19:07 but "@shachaf hasn't tweeted yet." 07:19:23 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:20:16 twitter should die already 07:20:35 olsner: it's a lie 07:20:44 olsner: i tweeted and deleted 07:21:55 if you do this, do retweets get deleted, too? 07:22:46 shachaf, how does it feel to be living in an anarchy? 07:23:12 ban anarchy 07:23:16 bananarchy 07:23:26 FOR ?A IN #16 BITS: CASE ?A: RESULT ?A[#15 TO #8]*?A[#7 TO #0]; It is a HWPL code to make a ROM of multiplication data. Is this OK like this, to you? 07:45:54 It's hard to believe that a certain individual has been in #haskell for over three years. 07:46:54 are you the certain individual? 07:47:37 No. 07:48:03 I have the individual on /ignore so I don't actually really know what they're saying. 07:48:09 Am /I/ the individual? 07:48:36 [is this the part where i pretend i didn't hear what Taneb said] 07:48:46 [yes] 07:52:27 [kind of] 07:53:11 Actually, how long have I been in #haskell 07:54:13 A little under two years? 07:55:51 Well, who knows how many nicks you had previously. 07:56:53 I think I was Taneb when I joined 07:57:34 Not Ngevd? 07:57:55 I don't think so 07:58:16 The people in #haskell actually seem to think some good will come out of this. 07:59:16 I have a poor memory for people, what's the issue? 08:00:05 People are making lots of noise so I can't sleep. 08:00:51 But in #haskell it's just general hopelessness. 08:02:57 mark my words, etc. 08:06:34 shachaf, you done much interesting lately? 08:06:57 nothing 08:07:09 the wold is emptiness and void and people WON'T BE QUIET 08:08:14 y☹s 08:12:50 nꙮ 08:15:49 ...am I the only person who understood lenses without really trying? 08:16:15 Lenses are pretty straightforward. 08:16:47 I mean specifically the van whatshisname lenses 08:16:59 However, learning about lenses does require some capacity for learning. 08:16:59 those are straightforward too 08:17:54 Actually, iirc when I first learnt lenses I was really confused and didn't know what was going on but that was with data-lens 08:19:09 didn;t data-lens use an even straightforwarder representation though 08:19:32 data-lens used s -> Store a s or something 08:19:35 Yeah 08:19:56 The store comonad coalgebra 08:54:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:01:28 I know I must understand lenses because I almost invented it independently once. 09:07:21 (I didn't quite do a good job of it though.) 09:12:09 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:15:26 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:16:36 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:26:14 -!- carado has joined. 11:31:41 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:36:38 -!- S1 has joined. 11:50:25 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:34:06 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:43:36 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 12:46:17 -!- boily has joined. 12:48:25 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:49:36 @messages-loud 12:49:36 You don't have any messages 13:00:16 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:07:48 -!- yorick has joined. 13:09:34 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:12:16 good what-with-repetitive-animals-and-domain-names morning! 13:44:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:12:39 -!- conehead has joined. 14:15:50 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:16:26 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:16:34 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:17:28 -!- ssue___ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:18:25 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:39:54 -!- ssue___ has joined. 14:47:42 telnet ssd.jpl.nasa.gov 6775 14:48:07 ↑ what is this thing I don't even holy fungot it's wonderful it has stuff and things and wooooooooah... 14:50:02 -!- ggherdov has joined. 15:06:02 boily, nice, how did you find that? 15:09:52 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 15:11:52 Vorpal: a comment under http://blog.xkcd.com/2013/09/30/asteroid-4942-munroe/ 15:11:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:11:58 -!- CADD has joined. 15:39:07 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:06:21 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:33 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 16:16:30 -!- Guest88757 has joined. 16:16:36 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 16:24:55 http://www.objectiveministries.org/zounds/review-minecraft.html wat 16:30:16 https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=objective+ministries 16:32:06 -!- conehead has joined. 16:32:24 Too obvious imo 16:34:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:34:22 -!- Bike has joined. 16:34:33 Huh. I carried the about-to-be-retired webserver laptop (there's e.g. fungot on it) to the living room in preparation of starting to move things off of it, and now it no longer boots. 16:35:31 So fungot is TRAPPED IN A PORTABLE CAGE 16:35:34 Yes. 16:35:35 Perhaps you should have carried it in preparation of something less drastic. 16:35:39 does it hang in boot process or is it just dead 16:36:33 nortti: It's just dead. I suspect its the made-in-China "Replacement AC Adapter", which (IIRC) had a LED on it that no longer lights up when I plug it in the wall. 16:41:21 nortti: WUT? 16:41:34 fizzie: but, but... what are we gonna do without fungot? 16:42:05 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:43:29 boily: It is a problem, to be sure. Most of the things on that box were on an external USB drive, which I can get at easily, but fungot lived in /home and therefore is on the 2.5" (IDE) HD. And I have no idea where my 2.5"-to-3.5" IDE adapter could be. (I think I had one.) 16:46:32 can you open the USB drive and splice in the IDE HD? 16:47:23 The USB drive is actually an USB enclosure and a standard 3.5" drive. The problem is that the 2.5" interface has a different connector. 16:47:44 Maybe I should go hunt for the adapter. 16:48:09 (Also one thing on the external HD is a Cyrus IMAP two-point-something-outdated database, which I was hoping to extract by reading it over IMAP, because that wouldn't involve installing a Cyrus somewhere.) 16:48:26 drives and their all unique adapters... we need a new standard to unify all drives together! 16:49:36 (lemmings are cute critters) 16:59:42 -!- ^v has joined. 17:07:03 The adapter was: the absolute bottommost thing in the last place I had left to look at. 17:08:29 I kept finding all sorts of tangentially related things (two other 2.5" HDs, a 3.5" floppy drive along with Slackware 8.1 RC1 installation floppies, a Fast-SCSI terminator, an absolutely ridiculous pile of IDE and floppy ribbon cables) but not it. 17:25:08 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:31:46 "Although much of the federal workforce will go without pay, checks will keep coming to the 533 current members of Congress. Why? The 27th Amendment prevents any Congress from changing its own pay." 17:40:17 Well, of course: the 2.5" HD does not work in the USB enclosure with the adapter. 17:40:24 (Doesn't spin up or anything.) 17:41:02 fizzie: do you have any backups? 17:42:37 Irregular ones, of this system. It's been sort of a project to get rid of it. 17:42:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:43:02 Anyway, I got it at least spin up; turns out I had an off-by-one error in the 2.5" IDE connector. 17:43:12 (It doesn't have the pin-20 "key" it's supposed to have.) 17:43:59 fungot is still salvageable! 17:45:06 I am reading data off of it at the moment. 17:45:17 (Then I need to actually do something with it.) 17:55:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:56:10 ./cfunge: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14' not found (required by ./cfunge) 17:56:13 Oh no, versions. 18:01:02 do you have the code? 18:02:00 Well, yes, it's cfunge. 18:02:12 Everyone (potentially) has the code. 18:02:30 (I guess there's the chroot patch, but I do have that too.) 18:03:20 lettuce prey for fungot's survival! 18:04:23 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:07:13 fizzie: perfect time to switch to CCBI2! 18:08:41 github is once again unicorning... 18:10:52 `olist (922) 18:10:53 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:10:57 olist (922): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 18:11:01 -!- fungot has joined. 18:11:35 wb fungot 18:11:36 kmc: it means that those shifts will intrinsically be slower than readjust my brain for such rubbish, of course, i don't 18:12:07 fungot: who are you calling rubbish 18:12:07 shachaf: i'm working on that 18:12:16 fungot: How do you feel on your new host? 18:12:17 fizzie: it's not about how he use his own scheme implementation leveraging the work of a tortured mind making a single last grasp for a semblance of comforting sanity overlaid upon a fundamentally chaotic at ultimately inimical universe. 18:12:25 Sounds good. 18:12:27 ^style 18:12:27 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 18:13:28 Crashed :-( 18:13:28 "I am the Blue Screen of Death. No one hears your screams." 18:14:21 sad mac 18:15:14 * boily hugs fungot 18:15:14 boily: riastradh i'll give it back, and if 18:16:52 Hmmm... the codu logs are still broken :-( 18:17:34 Gregor: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGS! :) 18:19:37 fungot: can I use ~duck, or am I still banned from it? 18:19:37 boily: i dont know 18:19:52 you fiendish sleazy bot. 18:19:57 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:29:15 Blue scream of death 18:38:44 "I am the Blue Screen of Death. No one hears your screams." is an error message from BeOS. 18:39:18 impomatic: you're running BeOS? what version? 18:39:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:40:58 bee os 18:41:09 Nortti: not any more. I'll get it up and running again as soon as I find a copy. 18:41:39 I missed an eBay auction recently. It went for 99p 18:42:19 -!- conehead has joined. 18:42:37 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:42:41 -!- asie has joined. 18:43:16 hmm, I should really set up a dedicated BeOS machine 18:43:30 because the thing will simply not boot in emulator 18:43:56 does the original BeOS boot in virtualbox? 18:44:43 Have you tried Haiku? 18:45:04 yea but it requires more RAM than most of my testbeds have 18:45:15 impomatic: I just finished downloading alpha 4. 18:45:15 maybe I should start upgrading my styff 18:45:24 boily: nope 18:47:01 * impomatic has pre-ordered a Parallella. 16 core board. 18:47:47 No idea what I can do with it... 18:53:13 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:56:25 http://www.parallella.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/first_parallella_cluster2.jpg I like the "just stick some fans nearby" approach to cooling 18:58:24 impomatic: use genetic algorithms to evolve the ultimate brainfuck derivative? 18:58:55 1.73 megabrickbrains / second 19:00:44 I'm tempted by the cluster. But I still wouldn't know what to do with it :-) 19:01:11 You could develop and run pargot, a parallel cousin of fungot 19:01:11 FireFly: the module system 19:01:30 ...is there such a thing as a parallel -funge? 19:01:47 fungot: do you get perpendicular? 19:01:48 boily: i couldn't evaluate your expression in the second line 19:01:50 I'd probably just use it for entering contests that need a bit of brute force. E.g. Al Zimmermann's programming contests. 19:01:57 fungot: there are no second line! 19:01:57 boily: if i send this patch? ( 1/ 3 1/ 3)) ( 3 4) 19:01:59 fungot: what are you all about 19:01:59 shachaf: ( use srfi-1) is fnord formal semantics?) 19:02:11 fungot: learn to parentheses hth 19:02:11 shachaf: or two instances of any scheme. :) hehe, doesn't seem like that to assemble... i'm still just barely coming to grips with the task of preparing a meal that acquires a taste beyond the sum of the rest 19:02:37 Is fungot skynet? 19:02:38 preparing a meal that acquires a taste beyond the sum of the rest 19:02:38 FireFly: i like the algorithm and have it out with different variations were. 19:02:40 very ambitious 19:02:46 I agree 19:03:17 imo fungot can do it 19:03:17 shachaf: i guess you don't get into specific trouble you'll run into performance issues with sisc, they work on states, using compact bit arrays and copying them will always keep us in second place next to obl 19:06:00 so compact bit arrays are the key to cooking a Beyond the Sum Meal. 19:08:28 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:08:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:10:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:10:36 Sum Meals.. are they related to monad burritos? 19:11:24 is a monad burrito like a burrito burrito? 19:11:50 burrito burrito buffalo buffalo buffalo. 19:11:52 * impomatic is searching for files which seem to have disappeared from the net :-( 19:12:31 kmc: did you know that monads are just free monad monad monad algebras 19:13:00 no 19:13:21 `? monad monad 19:13:24 monad monad? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:16:50 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:20:05 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:20:50 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:22:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:22:23 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 19:23:37 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:26:14 -!- ski has joined. 19:27:16 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 19:27:16 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 19:27:16 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 19:27:16 -!- hypha has quit (*.net *.split). 19:27:17 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 19:27:17 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 19:27:17 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:27:32 -!- myndzl has joined. 19:31:02 -!- hypha has joined. 19:33:46 Hmmm... http://dronegames.co - receive a (free?) Parrot AR Drone to hack. Suggested hacks - "Detect a face and follow that person" 19:35:56 Oh wait. Not free... 19:42:28 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:00 -!- fizziew has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:44:16 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:48:31 nice, sending a packet with an unexpected IP crashes qemu with an assertion failure 19:50:57 -!- fizziew has joined. 19:51:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:52:03 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:03:21 -!- ski has joined. 20:05:06 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:08:43 -!- fizzie has quit (Changing host). 20:08:43 -!- fizzie has joined. 20:08:44 -!- atehwa has joined. 20:17:31 olsner: what qualifies as an unexpected IP? 20:17:42 boily: 0, I think 20:17:59 apparently 20:19:03 I am indeed surprised. 20:19:56 Addendum [SCP-294ad]: Researcher produced request consisting solely of the phrase "surprise me". Device produced a opaque cup containing normal water, later determined to have been heated to approximately 200 degrees Celsius. Upon receiving vibration from transport, the contents of the cup turned into steam, violently spraying boiling water in a 2-meter radius. 20:19:58 -!- myndzl has quit (Quit: .). 20:19:58 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:20:09 hellambdabo 20:20:24 -!- myndzi has joined. 20:35:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:44:51 use super::super::longhands; 20:48:01 fungot: is it better to use simple gotos for clearer logic or complicate while type structures? 20:48:01 olsner: fnord sent me their cd suite with all their laziness) but couldn't get what i mean 20:52:23 olsner: cleaner logic prevails. 20:52:36 (althought a nice monad is best, imho.) 20:55:28 -!- Bike has joined. 21:02:48 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:02:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:04:21 kmc: what's a good naming scheme for lenses onto one or more values, zero or one values, zero or more values 21:14:48 -!- Guest88757 has changed nick to Ghoul_. 21:15:24 -!- Ghoul_ has changed nick to Ghoul__. 21:15:50 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:25:23 -!- augur has joined. 21:29:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:38:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Still not poulet.). 21:38:51 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:46 "unbounded adversary" is the name of kmc's new band 21:42:46 yes 21:43:39 need to book flights to korea 21:44:24 which passenger equivalence class will you be in 21:44:55 the worst one :'( 21:48:39 `olist 21:48:41 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 21:48:58 I already `olisted! 21:49:04 Should we add you to the `olist so you get notified? 21:49:14 ais523: i think it was already done, also we customarily include the number these days. 21:49:21 right 21:49:33 Yes you should include the number 21:49:33 shachaf: no, because I typically check OOTS before I check #esoteric 21:49:49 But what if you're in #esoteric and it beeps your name? 21:49:53 Then you'd know straight away. 21:49:55 Perhaps those list scripts should check the number and only ping the nicks if the number is greater than the previous number? 21:50:18 shachaf: yeah but statistically, considering the proportion of the time I'm online, if anyone else olists I've probably already seen it 21:50:32 fizzie: and the nicks in question were online at the time? 21:50:39 fizzie: No I don't think that will be necessary, and it might not work correctly anyways due to various reasons. 21:50:40 Perhaps! 21:50:50 (What's one extra filesystem commit for every Xlist between friends?) 21:51:50 being on the same list doesn't mean that you're friends 21:51:56 you might be enemies 21:52:00 fizzie: just make it only ping people who are online at the time, and check logs to see who it's already pinged 21:54:43 I do not think that is necessary; it complicates things that don't need to be. 21:57:45 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:57:51 https://twitter.com/neilfws/status/385161327422885888/photo/1 forgot this site was us gov't >_> 22:08:28 i agree with zzo38. unless you want to implement it properly. and on this channel "online" doesn't mean "actually present and will see this before pinging out". 22:09:18 *and/or 22:12:13 `ord |-|| | 22:12:15 124 45 124 124 32 124 22:12:25 wat 22:12:40 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:14:25 apparently | will show up as | in tables under some conditions, which the Pointy article works with 22:16:12 `ord | | 22:16:14 124 32 124 22:17:07 olsner: i was checking of those were actually the same character 22:17:41 oerjan: looks like they were, hthth 22:21:41 tdhdh 22:22:49 * oerjan suddenly wonders if he can say eighth 22:23:04 seems so 22:26:16 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:31:56 Tefaj: gnineve derorrim doog 22:32:40 `? gnimmargorp 22:32:42 gnimmargorp? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:32:54 wat 22:33:28 oh 22:33:30 did i misspell it or did someone delete it :( 22:33:45 `run echo programming | tac | ? 22:33:47 ​? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:33:55 `run echo programming | tac - | ? 22:33:57 ​? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:34:00 ok. 22:34:05 `run echo programming | tac 22:34:07 programming 22:34:20 you want rev not tax 22:34:23 *tac 22:34:39 `run echo programming | reev 22:34:41 bash: reev: command not found 22:34:41 `run echo programming | rev 22:34:43 gnimmargorp 22:34:44 and also to understand the difference between stdio and argv 22:34:51 yes i got that much 22:35:00 lousy unix philosophy grumble grumble 22:35:13 `run ls wisdom/*gorp 22:35:15 wisdom/grimmargorp 22:35:23 fantastic 22:35:27 programmirg. sensible. 22:35:29 `? grimmargorp 22:35:31 ​Þór, Grimmargorpurinn hefur sloppið! Ragnarök eru nálæg! 22:35:39 heh nice 22:35:54 wtf did it get entered like that. maybe someone actually misspelled it first. 22:36:14 (i know i entered it. minus some later correction.) 22:36:18 that's presumably a joke based on gnimmargorp looking like old germanic, rather than a replacement 22:36:19 `run echo programming | rev | xargs ? 22:36:21 gnimmargorp? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:36:33 Bike: yes. 22:36:40 yes 22:37:07 well, *old norse 22:37:22 `pastelog grimmargorp 22:37:39 also the spelling is icelandic, not genuine old norse. 22:37:43 hi 22:37:45 Grimmargorpurinn sounds like an Icelandic volcano 22:38:06 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10185 22:39:01 (e.g. old norse didn't use ö but ǫ) 22:39:04 I'm going to forget all about grimmargorpurinn all too soon <-- prophetic words 22:39:29 `pastelog gnimmargorp 22:39:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20742 22:40:19 That's... disappointing 22:40:20 i suspect i may have introduced the error. 22:40:49 `pastelogs g.immargorp 22:41:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14333 22:42:45 yep, only one thing to do 22:43:24 `run sed 's/rimmar/nimmar/' wisdom/grimmargorp >wisdom/gnimmargorp 22:43:28 No output. 22:43:36 `? gnimmargorp 22:43:38 ​Þór, Gnimmargorpurinn hefur sloppið! Ragnarök eru nálæg! 22:44:51 gnimmargorp doesn't sound as good :( 22:45:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:45:22 olsner: thus why i didn't delete the old one 22:45:45 *phew* 22:46:25 maybe gnimmargorp ought just be "common misspelling of the Grimmargorp" 22:48:20 did you know that google translate doesn't know how to translate "misspelling" into icelandic. 22:51:26 I did not! that's a fun fact 22:59:53 Ogrimmar is some kind of a WoW thing. 23:01:39 `run echo '"Gnimmargorp" er algeng stafsetningarvilla af "grimmargorp"' >wisdom/gnimmargorp 23:01:44 No output. 23:01:51 `run echo '"Gnimmargorp" er algeng stafsetningarvilla af "grimmargorp".' >wisdom/gnimmargorp 23:01:55 No output. 23:02:36 stafsetningarvilla? why does the mis end up on the other side of spelling? 23:02:47 "spelling error" 23:03:37 also i'm not sure about the preposition "af". 23:04:10 i found an instance of that use, but norwegian would use "for" in a similar position. 23:05:22 swedish would also use "av" I think 23:05:56 stavfel av? 23:06:28 how the hell does rustc decide what match blocks are non-exhaustive and what not? 23:06:44 anyway, there are few hits in either case but more for "af" than for "fyrir", although maybe i've misunderstood what icelandic uses for "for". 23:08:35 hmm, "felstavning av" ... feels like stavfel doesn't take an object, it's more like "a spelling mistake" perhaps 23:08:55 oh hm 23:09:17 yes, in that case norwegian would also use "av" 23:20:59 i want to create wisdom/nutirrof but it's too meta even for me. 23:21:18 nutirrof? 23:21:45 i suggest meta-lateral thinking to understand that 23:22:29 oerjan: can we have a new featured language. 23:22:46 i'm sure that's entirely possible. 23:22:55 ais523: ahem. 23:23:00 meta-lateral sounds like complicated thinking... I'm not even good at normal lateral thinking 23:23:33 olsner: it's related to grimmargorp. 23:23:40 hm maybe it should be rutirrof. 23:23:42 elliott: if you pick one I'll write a blurb for it 23:24:50 ais523: how about brainfuck? might as well get it out the way with 23:24:59 OK 23:25:17 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:26:07 how does an april fool's joke last until October anyway? 23:26:53 hey it's just half a year 23:27:25 hmm, I'm going to have to word this so that the b isn't at the start of a sentence 23:27:42 -!- augur has joined. 23:28:47 * oerjan hugs fungot 23:28:47 oerjan: if you come across as a fascist would do that 23:29:01 fascists were big on hugs? 23:29:32 indubitably 23:30:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:33:16 elliott: there, I've updated the main page blurb 23:33:19 can you do the rest? 23:34:08 fungot: i like hugs, am i a fascist 23:34:08 shachaf: i'm installing 1.5 now 23:34:19 uh oh, fungot 1.5. that sounds bad. 23:34:19 shachaf: thanks for the help! 23:34:39 fungot: i ain't helping you 23:34:40 shachaf: that is, a socket may be simultaneously used in multiple places. that kind of coin... well, i just wrote 23:35:06 ais523: ok 23:35:24 ais523: nice capitalisation trick :) 23:35:47 elliott: yeah, I had to contort a bit to pull that off, but we can't have controversial capitalization on the main page 23:37:32 shachaf, doesn't hugs not even have typeclasses 23:37:56 Phantom_Hoover: no, it doesn't not even have type classes (nor typeclasses) 23:38:36 what kind of shit isn't even not this isn't 23:42:16 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:48:38 -!- Zuu has joined. 23:51:54 Phantom_Hoover: hugs descends from the first haskell implementation to have constructor type classes (i.e. not just kind * types) 23:52:10 iirc 23:53:44 this makes sense to me 23:56:32 -!- azaq231 has joined. 23:58:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 2013-10-02: 00:05:36 't is common to respond to an e-mail rendered unreadable by character mangling (referred to as "betűszemét", meaning "garbage lettering") with the phrase "Árvíztűrő tükörfúrógép", a nonsense phrase (literally "Flood-resistant mirror-drilling machine") containing all accented characters used in Hungarian.' 00:08:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:08:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:08:52 kmc: that phrase isn't nonsensical, it describes an entirely well-defined object 00:08:59 if not a particularly useful one 00:09:43 hmm… "Árvíztűrő" is way easier to pronounce than "tükörfúrógép" 00:09:44 I just tried 00:11:34 Hungarian words can be hard to pronounce because all words inflect the same way 00:11:46 regardless of how hard the added letters for the inflection might be to pronounce in context 00:17:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:19:21 * Sgeo facepalms at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYMeOLpk5_8 00:20:52 -!- Bike has joined. 00:28:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:29:22 Had a fun evening 00:29:34 Watched the Avengers followed by Monty Python and the Holy Grail 00:31:23 Have you ever played flipperless pinball games? 00:34:08 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:37:22 zzo38: no 00:38:10 shall we have a betting pool of how soon before Taneb's sleep schedule unravels 00:38:20 *on 00:38:46 oerjan, I just found out that while I was watching these movies, a fire occured in my flat complex thing! 00:38:56 fancy 00:39:05 Apparently they had to evacuate and some people have to be rehoused 00:39:06 Have you played other pinball games? 00:39:50 have you played ball-less pinball games 00:40:01 or pin-less, for that matter. 00:40:18 Taneb: .... wowo 00:40:22 Taneb: glad you are not on fire 00:40:27 So am I 00:40:44 It was a different block, I think 00:40:58 I'm not even sure 00:41:09 (here I assume that if you were on fire, you'd deal with that problem before getting on IRC) 00:43:05 (if I was on fire I'd log in to IRC and say something like "help im on fire what do") 00:43:32 oerjan: I don't think you can; you can't make a pinball game if there is no ball, or no pin for the ball to bounce against (well, some have no pins but there are still walls to bounce against) 00:43:42 huh apparently flipperless pinball was a thing before the flippers were invented 00:44:02 Yes in a movie theatre once I have played a pinball game with no pins; it was the one to win gum balls 00:44:30 oerjan: Yes and sometimes it is still being played, especially on the computer, I think, flipperless pinball games are being made 00:45:31 A few people have tried to make flipperless pinball games just by removing the flippers from a flippered game, although that has bad results; best is to design the table layout to work with flipperless. 00:45:45 I think the flippers are an improvement 00:46:31 ais523: W ell, kind of, yes you can make a lot of flippered pinball games, which is an improvement, although pinball games can be made that work just fine without any flippers. 00:46:32 Weren't flippers added to get around gambling laws? 00:46:59 Taneb: I read somewhere that playing more than one ball for a single coin was added to get around gambling laws, but not flippers. 00:47:55 Flippers makes more sense as a workaround for gambling laws 00:48:02 Which doesn't mean it's true ofc 00:48:03 what's the law? 00:48:19 Even just today I play a flipperless pinball game that actually does have one flipper, although the player has no direct control over it; it flips whenever one of two bumpers are hit (these bumpers are close enough that there is a reasonable chance that the flipper will hit the ball if it does that) 00:49:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:49:28 The powers that be are on to zzo 00:49:51 apparently peer is online right now, under a different nick 00:50:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:50:07 presumably they're fed up of people asking them to stop resetting their connection 00:50:23 Oops there was some connection error; if you replied then please reply again. 00:51:02 we were discussing the connection error 00:52:36 Anyone know how to install .fon fonts in Ubuntu? 00:53:27 Many modern flipperless games I have played on computer omit the tilt sensor, although some flippered games do too (such as Pokemon Pinball). (I don't think tilt sensor is suitable for the computer game anyways; you have to push a key to nudge and the computer simulation doesn't have to move the table far enough to result a tilt anyways, therefore it shouldn't be needed.) 00:53:38 peer du lyver 00:54:17 the peer is coming from inside the house 00:55:01 Most computer pinball games just tilt if you nudge too often. Alternatives I have seen are in Spade Cadet, it tilts if you hold down the nudge key for too long instead, and in Knickknack it won't let you nudge more often than once a second. 00:55:25 (The nudge key will simply do nothing if you push it too often.) 00:56:10 I have heard from someone once of a pinball table that tilts if you hold down the flipper button for too long, too. 00:56:54 zzo38: I've played one that tilts if you press the flipper buttons too hard 00:57:00 presumably people kept doing that and breaking it 00:57:22 ais523: Yes, I suppose that would work. 00:59:38 My opinion is a computer pinball game needs no tilt penalty; a physical pinball game does need a tilt penalty to prevent lifting or breaking it. 01:00:55 i'd be impressed if a computer pinball game had a real tilt sensor 01:01:20 Bike: Maybe such thing can be made using Wii remotes 01:01:51 or the accelerometer in a smartphone 01:01:55 wii pinball, with virtual flippers. 01:02:07 actually, smartphones would be pretty suited to tilt-sensitive pinball 01:02:35 even i have a phone game that uses the orientation sensor. 01:02:51 Bike: Well you could use two of the buttons as flippers and one as plunger (and one for pause); or make a flipperless game so only the plunger button is needed. 01:03:06 -!- azaq231 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:03:08 no, no, you have two remotes, each of which is a flipper. 01:03:37 Bike: Then how should you nudge? It would make nudging confusing wouldn't it? 01:03:49 you gotta mooooove your body 01:04:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:05:34 In Pokemon Pinball bonus stages, once the timer expires the flippers will stop working; however you can still nudge. In the Meowth stage, Meowth stops moving and stops throwing money on the board, although any remaining money can still be hit with the ball, so nudging the table to make the ball hit them would help, however the flippers don't work so if the money is too high you probably cannot hit it anymore. 01:06:34 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:10:18 My computer makes some unusual noise do you know how to fix it? 01:10:36 depends on the noise 01:11:40 It seem to make the noise while simulating the physics of the pinball game; when it is paused, it doesn't make such noise though. It does make noise in other times too though sometimes 01:11:56 I also heard something knocking in the computer. 01:13:02 odd 01:13:56 Also when listing directory and other stuff; perhaps it is when doing a lot of computations at once, it is making a noise. 01:15:02 Also like I said before, sometimes the picture seems to have an imperfect clock rate. 01:15:26 Does this have something to do with it too? 01:16:36 does anything in a computer even make noise besides the fan? the disks i guess if you're a pleb 01:17:50 sometimes the capacitors start to hum / whine 01:17:54 Yes the disks make noise but I think it is a different noise 01:17:55 also sometimes they explode 01:18:05 kmc: Why do the capacitors start to hum / whine? 01:18:07 coils too. power supplies definitely make noise 01:18:09 zzo38: i don't know 01:18:12 sometimes the cpu makes noise 01:18:18 "exciting side channels" 01:18:25 Why does the CPU make noise? 01:18:29 if you're pushing reasonable amps at 60 Hz then odds are high that something will mechanically vibrate at 60 Hz 01:19:06 It didn't make these noises yesterday (although the picture had imperfect clock rate yesterday) 01:20:31 -!- CADD has joined. 01:20:55 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest56477. 01:21:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetostriction oh, that's cool. 01:23:11 Perhaps it is the CPU making noise but I don't know how it would do that. Or at least it has something to do with the CPU; I don't know if it is the CPU doing this or not. 01:23:38 (The CPU is Intel Celeron 2.00GHz) 01:27:19 kmc: what's a good naming scheme for lenses onto one or more values, zero or one values, zero or more values <-- isn't the second just Prism 01:27:31 no, Prism is more than that 01:27:40 it lets you construct!!!!! that's half the point 01:28:06 these things are just Lens+ Lens? Lens* 01:28:19 OKAY 01:29:14 name them after types of giraffe, then. 01:29:27 OKAPI 01:32:34 * oerjan feels unappreciated. 01:32:50 ok that was pretty good. 01:33:11 :) 01:33:26 oh wow, I've accidentally designed a call-by-name function interface in C 01:33:29 this is unexpectedly awesome 01:33:38 and yeah, that was an awesome pun 01:33:42 ~duck okapi 01:33:44 The noise does seem to be when the CPU is doing a lot of things. 01:34:00 oh, metasepia isn't here 01:34:02 ais523: What call-by-name function interface in C did you design? 01:34:10 it goes where boily goes 01:34:15 zzo38: the library calls into a plugin to ask it to update someting 01:34:22 then the plugin has to call back into the library to ask what to update 01:34:39 this is how you implement a call-by-name interface in a call-by-value language 01:34:43 only I did it by mistake 01:36:17 archive.org has backed up the united states government's web presence. it's the beginning of the end, folks. 01:37:25 it's only the real beginning of the end in like two or three weaks 01:37:27 *weeks 01:37:31 when the US defaults on its loans 01:37:47 no this is much more real than that. 01:37:50 I'm not sure whether or not that would completely destroy the world economy, and it's /really worrying/ that I'm not sure 01:38:19 why would defaulting on loans destroy the world economy 01:39:06 Bike: giving a loan to someone creates money out of thin air; the person who loaned it out still has it because the debt is worth value, and the person it was loaned to /also/ has it because they can spend it 01:39:14 if the loan is repaid, everything works out fine 01:39:42 if it isn't, though, some of the created money simply vanishes, and it can take a long time for the financial systems to work out where it vanished from 01:39:52 because of all the recursive loaning that's going on 01:40:03 thus, defaulting causes some amount of uncertainty as to the existence of money 01:40:20 a really really large default causes a really really large amount of money to become very uncertain 01:40:35 and it's hard to have a functioning economy in a situation where you can't work out how much anyone actually owns 01:40:42 I looked and found someone says the power supply is making noise because the CPU is using too much power. 01:40:49 what would it mean for the US to default on its loans given that the US also defines/controls the value of the dollar? 01:41:17 does anyone actually believe the US will pay off its debts as it stands? 01:41:41 well, the US does pay of its debts, it just issues new ones, right? 01:41:43 Fiora: well they could pay them off by just artificially creating that many dollars, but that would cause the value of all the existing dollars to reduce 01:41:48 if triply imaginary money destroyed the economy i'd be living in a cave rn 01:42:02 in proportion to the ratio between the amount that already existed, and the amount printed 01:42:32 it's quite possible that if they just didn't pay, the value of the dollar would drop by a similar amount for a similar reason (because not paying, and paying with freshly minted money, is pretty much equivalent) 01:43:29 the US's national debt is of a similar value to its entire GDP, meaning that I guess the value of the dollar would approximately halve 01:44:10 and that'd have some pretty crazy knock-on effects in the world economy too 01:44:14 guess who is making estimates out of thin air 01:44:14 GDP isn't assets though, is it...? 01:44:34 or money supply, I guess... 01:45:02 oerjan: me! 01:45:09 ding ding ding! 01:45:13 I'm not massively good at enonomics 01:45:18 I live with an economist, but it's only microeconomics 01:45:30 that's why I have to make rough guesses 01:45:34 rather than actually knowing 01:45:37 "Debt held by the public as a percentage of GDP rose from 34.7% GDP in 2000 to 40.5% in 2008 and 67.7% in 2011." 01:46:00 It's 108% if you include states and smaller municipalities' debts. which doesn't make sense here of course. 01:46:01 well, it's more maths than economics 01:46:20 Bike: it's also above 100% if you include intergovernmental loans, according to Wikipedia 01:46:27 which possibly are relevant here 01:47:05 I moved the computer slightly and the noise is now reduced, although I am not sure if I can still hear it or not. 01:47:12 err, intragovernmental 01:47:12 "History - See also: United States debt-ceiling crisis of 2011 and United States debt-ceiling crisis of 2013" good article 01:48:53 also apparently many of the US loans have interest rates below inflation 01:48:57 so they become smaller over time 01:49:55 ah right, this is where the Rogoff and Reinhart study was 01:49:57 good stuff 01:51:05 ais523: yeah, that's the whole reason behind quantitative easing 01:51:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:12 like if I remember right 01:51:21 the government regulates inflation by adjusting the rates on government loans 01:51:32 but recently like a few years back those rates reached... 0% 01:51:36 and inflation was still too low 01:51:52 so they had the fed start buying its own loans to try to get inflation to go up 01:52:00 looking forward to the extension of interest rates into the imaginary axis. 01:52:08 which is kind of the only thing they can do since you can't really go below zero? 01:54:30 The noise is still there, although it is reduced a bit from before. 01:55:05 actually, continuously compounded interest is an exponential function, isn't it. with an imaginary rate would you spiral outwards 01:56:42 exponential with imaginary rate ~= sine or cosine 01:57:39 ye 01:57:42 e^(a+ib) = e^a * (cos b + i sin b) 01:57:51 oerjan: well it's more rotatey than a sine or cosine 01:57:56 it has both real and imaginary components 01:58:29 in any case, the imaginary component causes cyclic behavior, not growth. 02:00:04 yes 02:00:25 actually the complex exponential function is one of the few four-dimensional objects that it'd be really useful to be able to visualise 02:01:01 maybe i'm just actually this dumb, but shouldn't it grow as the real part grows. 02:01:09 Can too little inflation be bad? 02:01:14 yeah 02:01:58 Bike: yes, but that's caused by the real component, not the imaginary one 02:02:08 Sgeo: negative inflation is normally considered to be a total disaster 02:02:14 although too much positive inflation is also bad 02:02:36 negative inflation = depression? 02:02:43 deflation 02:03:35 when inflation is negative, money gets worth more over time, so no one has an incentive to use more than absolutely necessary 02:03:57 which hurts investment and productivity 02:04:43 this is one of the main criticisms against bitcoin 02:04:52 Why not literally print money during deflation? Doesn't printing money increase inflation? 02:04:57 that it seems designed for it to be a bad idea for anyone to ever spend it 02:05:05 Sgeo: yeah, that's one possible way to fix deflation 02:05:06 ais523: like the pizza? 02:05:22 probably quite a common one in practice, too 02:05:36 but the thing about economics is, changing anything has all sorts of knock-on effects 02:05:46 this is why I'm so against the Euro (whilst mostly being a fan of the EU) 02:06:04 pegging countries' currencies to each other means that there are fewer dials you can adjust to try to fix a broken economy 02:06:05 because you're worried about nonspecific effects from any change? 02:06:08 oh. 02:06:17 ok good i was going to stare at you. 02:12:39 -!- augur has joined. 02:12:59 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:14:47 Are traditional turtle graphics able to find where they are? 02:14:59 Sgeo: not as far as I know 02:15:15 Ok, so I can't rant about Racket's turtle graphics sucking 02:27:31 -!- Tefaj has changed nick to Jafet. 02:29:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:31:54 isn't that part of the point? so you have to plan everything in advance? 02:42:25 There's a point? 02:43:14 yeah it's under the turtle 02:43:15 of course, it's for education. 02:43:18 Hmm, Racket's doesn't have varying pen sizes 02:54:05 woah this code is old 02:54:06 (module value-turtles mzscheme 03:00:48 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:03:18 hey, C correctness question: is it legal to compare NULL to a pointer to deallocated data? 03:03:41 for equality 03:12:34 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:13:01 ais523: no http://c-faq.com/malloc/ptrafterfree.html 03:13:06 I tried reducing the DRAM speed to see if that helps somehow; at least the video isn't wrong again (except in the BIOS configuration menu; it is still wrong during that) 03:13:26 The noise seems to be gone too 03:13:38 oerjan: bleh 03:13:54 I guess I'll fix this later 03:14:02 it's unlikely to be a problem in any sane implementation 03:14:23 The listed temperature in the BIOS menu was below 60 C (which is what the setting for the shutdown temperature is) 03:20:30 actualy, I'll fix it via converting all copies of that pointer to a pointer to static memory just before the free 03:20:36 apart from the copy I'm actually freeing 03:21:08 oh, here's a stupid bit of API design for oyu 03:21:09 *you 03:21:15 libpng requires the use of setjmp to avoid errors 03:21:29 nice 03:21:37 it also requires you to free its structures via a function which takes a pointer to a pointer to its structures as an argument 03:22:01 e.g. if I want to free a png_ptr, I call something along the lines of png_free(&png_ptr), although the actual function has more arguments 03:22:35 now, if my png_ptr is stack allocated, it has to be volatile because of the setjmp (I want to be able to free it after an error) 03:22:53 however, the free function doesn't take a png_struct * volatile * 03:23:00 so I have to copy it to another variable just to be able to free it 03:25:17 Oops now the bad video and noises are starting again 03:25:24 zzo38, anyone else fond of 6502: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/textfiles/the-jason-scott-documentary-three-pack/posts/615823 03:27:10 "and there are system architectures for which such exceptions would be quite natural.)" 03:27:16 That I'm curious about 03:28:58 O, Kickstarter is available in Canada now. 03:33:38 Sgeo: Is that the "Future Systems" that does that? 03:34:07 No idea what architectures that make sense for 03:47:05 libpng is full of other stupid stuff too, I think; I use LodePNG 03:47:38 LodePNG is much better 03:53:50 I found out that the heating vent in this room wasn't completely covered; I covered it now, in case that helps with the computer 03:56:44 I know that in Verilog the name of a module call can be useful for debugging (and potentially for other purposes too), so in HWPL it is optional (most commands can have a LABEL clause to do this). 04:02:24 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:07:35 Things I haven't added yet but probably should includes primitive CMOS/NMOS/PMOS transistors (which Verilog includes), and some analog stuff. Is the macros good enough current, you think so? 04:37:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:54:52 `welcome shikhin 04:54:58 shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:04:43 shikhin: Who are you today? 05:05:33 zzo38: Who are you today? 05:05:53 shachaf: I am Aaron Black today, I suppose... 05:06:56 @brain 05:06:56 They've turned into giant Swiss leaderhosen-clad dancing yodelers. Talk about unpredictable! 05:07:31 * oerjan eyes zzo38 and shachaf suspiciously 05:38:04 Do you think LodePNG is better? 05:38:19 Than whom? 05:39:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Joladatihi!). 05:42:33 Is better than libpng. 05:49:26 no, Ubuntu, it is not a problem that valgrind segfaulted 05:49:31 it doe that if the program it's running segfaults 05:49:33 *does 05:49:46 which is quite likely, because valgrind is the program I run for the purpose of diagnosing segfaults 06:05:00 ais523: That's the third welcome I've been given, here. :-) 06:05:07 :) 06:05:10 zzo38: Hmm, probably shikhin. 06:05:11 err, :-) 06:05:21 according to the RFCs for IRC, the hyphen is required 06:05:29 or well, it's in the only example given of one 06:05:44 examples are not normative!! probably 06:05:46 but I keep flattening the smileys out of habit 06:05:57 :) looks ugly, too. 06:06:06 (especially on a monospace font) 06:06:38 I have heard of stuff that Ubuntu does a bunch of stupid things by default, although you can change these things. 06:06:42 Which RFC? 06:07:01 the one about netiquette 06:07:03 I linked it a while back 06:07:09 can't remember the number 06:07:13 Aha. 06:07:22 also, a bug in my program just filled the screen with smiley faes 06:07:24 *faces 06:07:31 then double-freed when I tried to exit it 06:07:39 Hmm, the RFC says too use them sparingly. 06:07:41 valgrinding it now to catch the double free 06:07:53 in case it gives a hint as to where the smiley faces are coming from 06:07:55 silly ais523. free pointers, not doubles. 06:08:12 (that isn't "character 0x01 in code page 437", which is the most likely cause that that particular character was rendered) 06:08:55 Is it a ☺ character? 06:08:59 shachaf: yeah 06:09:22 That sounds like a strange bug. 06:10:10 the smiley face bug? 06:10:26 it's like the code's accidentally copying from the font rather than where it should be copying from 06:10:40 "Wait overnight to send emotional responses to messages. If you have really strong feelings about a subject, indicate it via FLAME ON/OFF enclosures." 06:11:14 yup, that's exactly what it was doing 06:12:27 shachaf: That's from the RFC? 06:12:38 shikhin: yep 06:13:52 oh wow, now this is pretty 06:15:02 hmm... there are two issues with this: 06:15:17 a) SDL2 doesn't seem to be rendering to texture, it's just rendering directly to the screen 06:15:27 b) I probably have the color channels in the wrong order 06:15:47 before, the files I tested it with used only white and transparent 06:16:06 which conveniently, are 0xffffffff and 0x00000000 in the 32bpp RGBA format I'm using 06:17:00 this is meant to be opaque and dark gray, but instead it's semitransparent and red 06:17:17 which leads me to conclude that the alpha channel is being interpreted as red 06:17:28 perhaps I have the endianness backwards 06:20:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:45 A "qemu -m" just used up 16 gigs of RAM and 9 gigs of swap. 06:30:52 Er, I mean, "qemu -m 512". 06:32:50 yeah, endianness was backwards 06:46:46 all those stupid C1 control characters and they didn't bother to standardize FLAME ON or FLAME OFF :< 07:57:16 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:01:03 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:07:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:09:41 Anyone know a way I can get an alert when someone comes online on Facebook? 08:18:56 Pidgin? 08:27:26 Maybe 08:40:42 -!- Guest56477 has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 08:51:07 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 08:53:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:53:54 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 09:30:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:30:43 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:35:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:52:37 -!- Ghoul__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:53:41 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:04:09 https://twitter.com/big_ben_clock #kmc 10:10:48 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:11:59 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 10:32:36 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:37:45 -!- carado has joined. 10:43:35 -!- jix has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:43:52 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:46:39 -!- jix has joined. 11:09:01 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 12:04:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:12:10 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 12:14:04 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 12:14:31 -!- impomatic has joined. 12:15:24 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 13:05:50 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:08:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:32:45 -!- yorick has joined. 13:51:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:54:08 -!- boily has joined. 13:54:13 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:54:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:59:39 -!- asie has joined. 14:03:27 -!- conehead has joined. 14:04:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:18:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:18:48 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:19:51 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 14:24:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:25:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:38:12 -!- asie has joined. 14:45:07 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:51:14 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 14:53:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:01:34 -!- Bike has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:01:52 -!- Bike has joined. 15:04:38 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:22:59 -!- augur has joined. 15:51:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:57:31 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:09:33 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:26:12 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin__. 16:27:31 -!- asie has joined. 16:30:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:31:18 -!- augur has joined. 16:35:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:43:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:46:46 good morning? 16:49:34 Ö́̏R͙͒ ̵̮Ì̆S̘ͨ ̸ͫI̶̺T̼̉ 16:51:44 eeek. 17:06:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:09:02 -!- shikhin__ has changed nick to shikhin___. 17:12:45 -!- Bike has joined. 17:13:55 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:14:07 -!- ^v has joined. 17:14:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:15:44 -!- augur has joined. 17:20:23 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:21:38 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:27:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:31:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:34:48 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 17:36:41 -!- asie has joined. 17:41:46 -!- CorMeumLucidum has joined. 17:44:10 hello 17:44:20 `welcome CorMeumLucidum 17:44:22 CorMeumLucidum: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:44:58 Phantom_Hoover: hoping for a MEANWHILE IN R/BITCOIN update today 17:46:21 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:46:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:46:57 -!- CorMeumLucidum has left. 17:48:48 bye 17:57:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:02:36 -!- Bike has joined. 18:07:21 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:08:32 -!- shikhin___ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:08:36 yup, already see somebody saying that a 25% drop in value is normal and it'll bounce back 18:08:43 I looked inside the computer and I see no damaged capacitors. I vacuumed it inside in case it helps, but I don't know if it does. I still have problems with bad video, and something inside the computer is clicking. 18:09:00 Bike: well, a 25% drop in value doesn't sound that abnormal for bitcoin. 18:09:12 that's why it's funny, yeah 18:09:15 healthy and natural 18:10:10 anyway the important thing here is, it's going to be like a billion times harder for me to get #drugz w/o accidentally getting kmc arrested now 18:10:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1nlb08/ross_ulbricht_was_sloppy_and_outted_himself/ccjmvf4?context=1 this guy was not the smartest illegal drugs site operator ever 18:10:40 god, "hypothetically". 18:11:19 i like that «a/k/a "Dread Pirate Roberts"» is in official documents. 18:11:54 wow, he hired the hitman to kill someone who'd done a SQL injection? that's some cyberpunk shit 18:12:19 i like the pictures in this thing 18:12:31 exhibits A & B 18:13:12 Bike: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1nl5ct/silk_road_seized_by_the_feds/ccjn1kr this is so weird 18:13:51 Do you know what is wrong with thsi computer? 18:15:07 elliott: wat 18:16:29 it's gonna be great when we see criminal incompetence all laid out like this since it's the future and all 18:16:48 so uh, did the guy actually get murdered 18:17:50 zzo38: clicking suggests one of the moving parts is brushing up against something. that'd mean fans or spinning discs, i guess? 18:18:40 bad video could be because of a bunch of things. is the monitor okay? is the video card okay? are the cables okay? are you okay? 18:18:54 i'm okay 18:19:00 Bike: well it doesn't seem like the person who allegedly murdered them would have any reason to do it for the price given, assuming that comment is accurate 18:19:05 unless they just like killing people. 18:19:25 elliott: maybe they do just like killing people! i dont' "know" the "criminal" "mindset" 18:19:37 especially the bitcriminal 18:20:01 a cyberpunk reality masterminded by children 18:20:36 maybe this will all turn out to be a synydyne ARG. 18:21:40 http://media.tumblr.com/c907dd90564b1d759d746bd6a8c559fe/tumblr_inline_mu0qrxfYYQ1qdjjgt.png on a happier note, the government shutdown is going well 18:21:55 mnoqy: I think I cleaned the fans though; maybe a wire got caught inside though, but I think I moved those out of the way 18:22:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:22:35 Bike: … 18:23:22 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 18:25:15 Bike: \ldots{} 18:25:17 good news, bitcoin is back up to $120 after dropping from $140 to $110 in thirty minutes 18:25:57 your investments are safe. unless they were in drugs. 18:26:12 hmm, are the wars on terror and drugs halted then? 18:26:15 Now I found this "HWMonitor" program. Other than the temperature it also lists voltages and fan speeds. I notice that the -12V seems to be wrong; it is at -4 instead of -12 as it should be. 18:26:35 that would be p. great for peace on earth etc 18:26:46 Bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmVQ-tpggyY 18:27:02 alas, i don't see people makin stupid $250 sales to try to inflate the price 18:27:18 It lists the "THRM" temperature at 44 C 18:27:34 mnoqy: good stuff in the relateds here 18:27:36 "TMPIN2" is at 45 C 18:27:56 Actally it is down to 44 now and sometimes even 43 but these are the max values 18:28:13 "TMPIN1" doesn't seem to work; it says 0 C. 18:28:36 The "FANIN0" is at 2860 RPM. Is this proper? 18:29:35 The hard drive temperature is at 37 C. Is this proper? 18:30:13 (I have two hard drives in my computer though; perhaps one doesn't have a temperature sensor?) 18:32:11 Perhaps the power supply is bad because the -12 voltage is at -4. 18:32:32 But I already replaced it once. 18:32:39 * boily stands far, far away from zzo38's machine 18:32:55 * boily yells “EVERYTHING IS FINE AND PROPER, AT LEAST FROM HERE!” 18:34:56 I also notice a "Fans PWM" section although all three values are 0%. 18:40:08 Maybe it would help to underclock the CPU, although I looked in the BIOS menu and the minimum setting is 100 and that is what it is set to. (The maximum setting is 132. I don't know what units these are in.) 18:41:22 -!- asie has joined. 18:41:40 Although I also noticed for several years now that the RTC seems to be slow; it is always behind the correct date/time. 18:43:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:43:57 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:48:19 Do you expect putting ice anywhere near the computer to help? 18:49:17 zzo38: dry ice. 18:59:03 How could anything get inside the disks? 18:59:14 It doesn't click all the time; only sometimes. 19:03:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_of_death#Hard_disk_drives ? 19:04:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:05:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:05:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:08:57 -!- Bike has joined. 19:21:46 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/us-crime-silkroad-raid-idUSBRE9910TR20131002 19:23:32 von mises. of course. 19:23:38 yeah 19:23:39 "During the raid, authorities seized $3.6 million worth of bitcoin" 19:24:24 "You know how there's been reports of X dollars amount of Bitcoins being seized from Silk Road? You can know about 25% of that dollar value" 19:25:04 one thing about bitcoin is that if everyone collectively refuses to respect a transaction, then they can 19:25:28 like, they can just pretend it didn't happen 19:25:31 looks like it's back up to $125/BTC. 19:25:31 yeah is the FBI going to open an account at MtGox and transfer it out with Dwolla or some shit? 19:26:11 kmc: well, they /could/; as long as MtGox could find a buyer for the bitcoins the FBI were selling, and they probably could, then it'd work just fine 19:26:13 they need it 'cos of the shutdown hurr hurr 19:27:30 haha 19:27:34 FBI gotta get paid 19:27:36 * kmc -> lunch 19:36:09 -!- conehead has joined. 19:39:34 kmc: they could use coinbase I guess? 19:40:38 we should email them with suggestions 19:48:32 Fiora: coinbase looks very interesting. do you use it? 19:48:50 Um, I used it like once to dump some of the bitcoins I had left 19:48:55 it was really simple and easy 19:49:40 I was going to use mtgox but then I realized they were requiring some crazy fancy identity verification and stuff and I really didn't want to hassle with that 19:49:51 (I should probably be glad I didn't use them now -_-) 19:50:47 same reason I didn't mtgox: my identity is my identity. okay with prooving that I am boily, but they are a little bit... overboard with all that. 19:51:43 oh well. all I need now are some shiny bitcoins. 19:52:57 i hear there's now an opening for a classic, lucrative market 19:54:38 ewww, lwip uses the current byte-order of the architecture and byteswap functions 19:57:07 that thing is still used? 19:57:53 well, I use it since some time yesterday... not sure if anyone else does 20:00:55 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:10:37 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:12:21 "Moral of the SilkRoad bust: Don't ask PHP questions on Stack Overflow" 20:12:44 ... is that how he got busted? 20:13:00 kmc: Did you see the PDF? 20:13:03 no 20:13:15 http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf 20:13:24 «in section 43 he post a question on stack overflow, asking "How can I connect to a Tor hidden service using curl in PHP?", using an account made under his name and then a minute later changed it to "frosty"» 20:13:41 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15445285/how-can-i-connect-to-a-tor-hidden-service-using-curl-in-php 20:13:50 omfg 20:14:07 there's the whole worry about parallel construction, but that sounds pretty, wow XD 20:15:08 which page number shachaf 20:15:18 which page what 20:15:57 from another answer to frosty, "Congratulations; you helped create the Silk Road :-)" 20:16:00 internet is weird 20:16:04 oh page 30 20:16:30 i mean, not by the asker of course, he's not /that/ dumb 20:16:32 some of the rest of the pdf is also relevant 20:22:14 reddit comments on the thing are as redditty as ever. 20:32:08 "Based on my training and experience, I know that criminals seeking to hide their identity online will often use pseudonymous usernames to conceal their identity." 20:33:29 Shit, we’re busted. 20:33:37 Well well well. 20:33:46 Gregor: darn, I guess you're safe 20:33:53 i'm not very pseudonymous either 20:34:06 ...when you're not using nicknames like 'Friendship', that is. 20:34:11 Hahaha 20:34:20 Or.. RocketSquirrel, was it? 20:35:03 Based on my training and experience, I know that I will prefix all my sentences with “Based on my training and experience, I know that”. 20:35:06 Eh, or did I mix things up now.. probably 20:35:19 ion: my thoughts exactly when reading that pdf 20:35:27 "criminals seeking to hide their identity online will often [hide their identity online]." 20:35:50 FireFly: RocketJSquirrel. 20:36:02 Ah 20:40:10 "clog << clog(2.718281828) << endl;" 20:41:14 C++ can be awesome sometimes 20:41:30 (the first clog is from , the second from ) 20:41:38 lol 20:41:56 left shift clog by clog of e 20:42:31 it's more a case of "how do you manage to give two identifiers in the standard library the same name" 20:44:46 well they were introduced by C++ and C99 respectively, I think 20:44:53 so maybe the committees don't talk to each other as much as they should ;P 20:45:10 yeah 20:45:23 apparently it's not a problem unless the one in is a macro 20:45:37 because in C, the first clog doesn't exist, and in C++, it can distinguish 20:46:03 makes sense 20:46:17 (because of overloading) 20:46:40 just to be safe they should give the first clog an operator() which calls the other one 20:47:01 if clog is a function macro it still works, I think? not sure if it portably works of course 20:48:11 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:48:52 olsner: not if someone puts spaces between it and the parens, I tihnk 20:48:54 *think 20:48:56 not sure on that though 20:49:07 perhaps that's irrelevant 20:49:33 it'd definitely matter if you produced the second clog as the result of expanding another macro, with some order of sequencing the #defines 21:00:50 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:02:15 -!- carado has joined. 21:06:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:13:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:29:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:30:00 -!- tswett has joined. 21:30:21 So I tried to implement the Reidemeister moves in my new language: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tuesday 21:30:27 Turns out that my new language is pretty hard to work with. 21:32:42 Certain things would be made significantly easier if you could specify that one rule takes priority over another. 21:35:58 Like lambda calculus. You could say that the rule (replace (var X) with (var Y) in (var X)): (var Y); takes precedence over the rule (replace (var X) with (var Y) in (var Z): (var Z);. 21:36:35 Whoops, an unmatched parenthesis. Let me mitigate the damage by closing it now. 21:36:35 ) 21:37:00 fungot: could you unbalance the parenthesises? 21:37:01 boily: i know lots of lisp stuff. people _love_ it, they're popped and assigned to local variables on the stack then yes, i'm excluding those that use psyntax's module system, 21:37:19 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:38:18 Gotta go. Great conversation, everyone. 21:38:25 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:39:10 @tell tswett hth 21:39:10 Consider it noted. 21:39:36 @tell tswett htsetth 21:39:36 Consider it noted. 21:39:42 darn. missed a w. 21:41:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:56:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:59:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:00:38 oerjan: I have to sing finnish music this term 22:01:17 fizzie: ^ 22:01:34 excellentä 22:02:37 `run words --finnish 10 # some lyrics 22:02:40 syytäväsi hapunokkaipa ikutiivissasi reistansa eettävässäännisammasi nostaan oleviä räisinnolleen koulultaan tuttamiassa 22:04:02 how do you pronounce kaikki maat te riemuitkaatte? 22:04:24 (apparently the song is a "psalmin" which I assume is a type of fish) 22:05:00 It's just a psalm. 22:05:02 @wn psalm 22:05:04 *** "psalm" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 22:05:04 Psalm 22:05:04 n 1: one of the 150 lyrical poems and prayers that comprise the 22:05:06 Book of Psalms in the Old Testament; said to have been 22:05:08 written by David 22:05:10 2: any sacred song used to praise the deity 22:05:12 v 1: sing or celebrate in psalms; "He psalms the works of God" 22:05:14 -!- Bike has joined. 22:05:38 fizzie: 'twas a joke ;) 22:05:59 `run words --esoteric 10 22:06:01 As for pronunciation, I'm bad at explainin them but generally you can just map graphemes to phonemes in a straight-forward way. 22:06:01 Unknown option: esoteric 22:06:07 `run words --esolang 10 22:06:10 ctorylove elogi hcbf bf-pda cat hunter shakespeare ziim sqirrely alaguf 22:06:25 fizzie: how do you pronounce the e? is it "tee" or "tay"? 22:06:55 coppro: http://translate.google.com/#fi/en/kaikki%20maat%20te%20riemuitkaatte and click on the speaker icon -- it's very close. 22:07:08 that sounds like effort :P 22:07:15 `run words --french 20 # let's see if they are real French words... 22:07:19 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:07:19 baony cirtungt intes regref yinerissamp hidedio fustants rugiri fraggre doplees promîm pavées dederla expurrida bons lnutz cuis nefîicy andosacrétos holog 22:07:27 And it's the IPA /e/, or close enough. 22:07:51 mais c'est n'importe quoi! 22:07:52 Like the e in 'bed'. 22:08:39 boily: il y a deux 22:09:54 coppro: je vois bien, mais n'empêche que 2/20, c'est pas fort. 22:10:10 `run words --french 20 # let's see if they are REAL French words again... 22:10:13 pari pers nar anguait mécommie lous gyt profebruguâ croit rentiput luffice lau provendentem cinquière hoquemen infit ractan les érrent uilepin 22:10:41 coppro: à peine mieux. 22:10:58 boily: oui, c'est ça 22:14:15 je m'insurge! je réclame un vrai dictionnaire! oui à la Domination Mondiale par le Français! 22:15:01 verilog why do you not have an expressional cond. come on. come on 22:16:54 boily: bons and les were really words, right? 22:18:24 oerjan: I confirm «pavées», «bons», «pari», «croit» and «les» are real, common modern French words. 22:19:18 (paved FEM. PLUR., good PLUR., bet, (he) believes, the PLUR.) 22:21:03 il croit qu'ils sont bons mots 22:22:18 sorry if I sound pedantic, but: «il croit que ce sont de bons mots.» 22:22:27 ;_; 22:23:06 at least you conjugate your verbs better than most francophones. 22:23:19 yay! 22:24:17 also it's really annoying to use google translate for french when my browser refuses to accept ´ as a working dead key 22:24:37 eh? 22:24:59 well i was going to look up érrent 22:25:27 that one comes very close to «errent» (they wander). 22:26:05 on an errand, no doubt 22:26:07 boily: j'ai compté «cuis», mais pas «pavées» 22:26:22 coppro: je ne connais pas le cuis. allons google translater la chose! 22:26:36 AAAARGH! 22:26:45 to cook. 22:26:47 obviously. 22:26:47 lol 22:27:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:27:24 la honte... 22:27:42 boily cuis des poulets 22:27:55 * oerjan didn't try to check that conjugation 22:28:01 -!- azaq23 has joined. 22:28:20 boily: ce sont «pari» et «pavées»? 22:29:04 oerjan: nearly. third person, so «cuit». 22:29:42 coppro: a bet, and paved, as in paved roads: «routes pavées». 22:30:32 ah, merçi! 22:30:39 dë riën. 22:31:01 bon, avec tout ça, j'ai faim. temps d'aller manger du poisson mort. 22:31:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SUSHI!). 22:31:10 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:20 ah, zut 22:32:00 poison du mort 22:32:49 il á parti avant que j'aie eu l'opportunité de se dire «Est-çe que tu va cuire le poisson?» 22:59:58 -!- augur has joined. 23:11:38 -!- Bike has joined. 23:17:07 `quote 23:17:09 796) the other day I bought a recycling can from amazon it came in a cardboard box i took the can out of the box, broke down the box, and put it in the can it was amazing 23:17:25 `quote 23:17:26 49) Porn. There, see? 23:17:32 no 23:17:35 `quote 23:17:36 736) A lot of things happened; not only me, but also you 23:17:44 yes 23:18:14 is zzo38 run by syndyne 23:19:31 `quote 23:19:33 1049) i think delivery sushi is one of those habits that can rapidly consume all of one's money like cocaine 23:19:39 `quote 23:19:41 531) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 23:19:47 `delquote 531 23:19:54 ​*poof* elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. 23:22:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:22:38 -!- ^v has joined. 23:22:55 `quote 23:22:56 582) http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED 23:23:08 `quote 23:23:08 shachaf: what the hell was wrong with that quote, are you trying to make a squeaky clean image on the internet or something 23:23:09 266) Ohheywait, I can make it a raytracer instead of a photon tracer so long as I run time backwards. 23:23:18 oerjan: It's not good? 23:23:23 It's just pointless and stupid. 23:23:47 my quotes are better than that quote, and my quotes are the bottom of the barrel. there you have it 23:23:57 Bike: O KAY 23:24:05 It doesn't meet whatever quality standards the quote database ought to have. 23:24:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 23:25:04 i'm surprised all my DF ones have survived the culls 23:25:12 I've just seen someone run past me in Sailor Moon cosplay (I think) with a Pikachu backpack] 23:25:32 at... twenty past twelve? 23:26:03 the witching hour 23:27:18 Phantom_Hoover, she (or possibly he) was leaving university accommodation 23:27:43 some late-night sailor moon cosplay 23:28:15 maybe she was at a party or larp type thing with friends? 23:28:30 larping at midnight??? on wednesday???? 23:28:33 it doesn't add up! 23:29:07 well okay my college had midnight larp type things but that was on friday or saturday. 23:29:39 midnight larp just sounds hilarious 23:29:46 like you're being all furtive and mystic about it 23:29:59 pretty sure we were warned about midnight larping by jack chick. 23:30:28 it was actually people running around the main lecture complex with duct-tape daggers 23:31:44 well that just sounds like a recipe for unpleasant misunderstandings 23:32:14 pleasant knifeterstandings 23:32:21 http://www.mit.edu/~assassin/ 23:32:50 we played Capture the Flag using the steam tunnels, does that count as LARP 23:33:06 depends. did you pretend to have fur? 23:33:21 (I don't think that thing was very larpy. I knew someone who did actual larp though, she had a lot of fun with it) 23:33:59 Bike: larp != furry 23:34:43 nope 23:36:01 the intersection is probably non-empty, but they are entirely orthogonal concepts. 23:36:07 nope 23:36:13 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:36:21 -!- oerjan has kicked Bike yes.. 23:36:26 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:38:44 I can't bear bears 23:56:08 -!- azaq231 has joined. 23:56:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:08 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:57:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:58:00 <^v> nope 23:58:01 <^v> nope 23:58:38 <^v> also, protip: /cs kick #esoteric 23:58:53 -!- azaq231 has quit (Client Quit). 23:59:09 -!- azaq23 has joined. 2013-10-03: 00:00:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:01:42 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:04:58 ^v: nope 00:14:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:23:35 -!- Bike has joined. 00:26:32 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:31:43 oerjan, regarding that see the first graf of http://www.mit.edu/~mitsfs/related-groups.html 00:32:37 "So, if you're from somewhere else and were looking for all the weirdos, here are the places you might have thought would all be the same as each other and us" 00:32:46 that's a beautiful sentence 00:32:57 i don't understand @_@ 00:33:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:01 "Welcome to the website of the MIT Anime Club. We are a non-profit MIT student organization dedicated to increasing the awareness of anime, or Japanese animation, in the MIT community." 00:34:11 "have you accepted anime into your life as your saviour yet?" 00:34:51 no 00:35:22 \rainbow{awareness} 00:35:22 Bike: see, no furries at all! 00:35:40 larping and anime are totally distinct oerjan 00:35:41 god 00:36:05 pls join my pagan sci-fi anime larp 00:36:14 slash linux user group 00:37:00 i sense that trondheim's gamers club may have been unusually light on the paganism. 00:37:18 shame, isn't scandinavia one of the best places for paganism 00:37:33 well there's good access to nature 00:37:39 good access to vikings 00:38:22 "I spent the winter on the verge of a total breakdown while living in Norway / I felt the darkness of the black metal bands" 00:38:39 "But being such fawn of a man I didn't burn down any old churches / Just slept way too much" 00:40:42 the winter does tend to do that to weak people 00:46:15 "If you're high school students looking to start a club, you may find this Parents' guide to anime helpful when arguing that there are anime which can be shown on campus without inundating the school administration with calls from irate parents ranting about the school showing violent animated Japanese pornography." 00:46:41 talk to your parents about anime before someone else does 00:47:30 darn i want to `addquote that but it doesn't work without all of elliott's quote included 00:48:06 talk to your children about anime. 00:48:06 * pikhq_ wonders at notions of anime = porn 00:48:10 "In an interesting work-around, Levison complied the next day by turning over the private SSL keys as an 11 page printout in 4-point type" 00:51:38 and you can see a copy of the printout, awesome 01:00:55 -!- augur has joined. 01:41:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:42:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:43:37 Bike: wut? 01:48:21 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:50:00 -!- Koen_ has joined. 01:54:13 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:56:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:26:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:29:21 ... 02:29:31 .plt files are encoded with base64 after being gzipped 02:29:32 WHY 02:30:19 so you can email them duh 02:34:59 I WAS BORN TO GET WILD 02:37:38 silly people 02:37:45 base64 them first and then gzip 02:39:39 The file format specifies that the file contains some procedures to run (to provide various data) 02:39:49 I have no idea if those procedures are run in a sandbox or not 02:40:28 `slist 02:40:30 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:44:50 -!- Bike has joined. 02:45:31 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:08:40 http://hover.ie/ 03:09:17 i'm glad they put in that warning that this will fuck my computer. 03:13:21 ? 03:13:48 i don't have webgl 03:13:51 "But the real treat is hidden a little deeper. If you type "bambi"—the original game's original code-name—on the start screen, it'll shoot you back into retro 1995 mode which replicates the original game, complete with fake desktop, and fake social media applications with fake installers. It's actually pretty rad." 03:13:52 Oh 03:15:14 fuck yeah 03:15:15 hover 03:16:28 I don't think multiplayer lets you choose who to play with :( 03:16:31 does it have the weezer video too 03:16:49 no just a still of it :/ 03:17:57 This? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kemivUKb4f4 03:19:13 yes 03:26:34 tk is counterculture 03:27:22 Hmm? 03:27:37 Is lexical scoping culture? 03:27:53 maybe 03:28:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:28:57 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:38:46 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 04:24:26 -!- adu has joined. 05:12:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:23:47 ski: People in ##typetheory were asking questions about linear logic that I bet you'd know the answers to. 05:27:37 hi esoteric ppl 05:30:50 `welcome adu 05:30:53 adu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:31:09 hi kmc 05:31:13 hi HackEgo 05:31:19 greets to a fellow three character nick person 05:31:33 I'm more than that 05:31:39 I'm a bio person 05:31:45 are you a bicycle? 05:31:53 as opposed to an auto-electro-person 05:32:15 I <3 people 05:33:02 just fyi 05:33:12 my favorite language is Funge-98 05:33:24 I =1 people 05:33:29 if that means anything, then you know I'm not a bot 05:33:36 shachaf: AMEN 05:33:56 ^source 05:33:56 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 05:33:59 no proof of anything. 05:34:39 yup 05:42:44 Where did I see the name adu before? 05:42:48 Oh, #tcl I think 05:43:03 err, #racket 05:43:07 And I _just_ checked too 05:43:44 `pastlog [<]adu 05:44:15 No output. 05:44:29 apparently not here 05:44:46 especially here 05:44:49 #haskell 05:45:50 `pastlog [<]adu 05:45:58 just to be sure. 05:46:02 2009-12-05.txt:15:50:51: after, meaning smaller? 05:46:19 HackEgo: stop silently timing out thx 05:46:45 i did think you looked familiar 05:48:08 hi oerjan HackEgo 05:55:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: hi and bye). 06:16:05 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:28:41 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:35:39 fungot: What's your favourite language? 06:35:39 fizzie: well i need to make 06:36:16 fungot: Okay, well, remember to write a wiki entry about it when it's done. 06:36:17 fizzie: there are no pencils within reach that you might want to add variables and the like? it seems that thing is 06:36:37 is what fungot?? 06:36:37 shachaf: anything interesting happened here the last weeks? i'm insulted! :p) then performed operations on it, 06:38:09 it just is. 06:38:43 fungot: is it? 06:38:43 shachaf: okay. parachute with the fluffy parachutey bits right? what does that tell you about it shortly after first coming in here, otherwise. 06:39:22 Whu, are parachutes fluffy? 06:39:30 fungot: I think you're drunk 06:39:30 FireFly: i used it a bit, too. 06:39:44 uh oh 06:39:52 kmc: what is """it""" 06:39:56 we need a drugz expert 06:40:07 what 06:41:16 if you have a lot of drugz and then you finish all the good ones do you only have the dregz left?? 06:41:32 confirm 06:41:50 what did fungot use 06:41:51 shachaf: error in cdar: expected type number, got ' output-port'. try again. 06:41:56 shachaf : mhm .. 06:43:01 what did fungot say? 06:43:01 kmc: my implementation isn't supposed to sound rude. 06:43:05 :D 06:43:25 23:39 fungot: I think you're drunk 06:43:25 23:39 FireFly: i used it a bit, too. 06:43:25 shachaf: s/ indenting/ fnord/ 205/ collects") and " fnord", 06:43:25 shachaf: eew. you don't say. is it documented?? 06:43:41 `addquote what did fungot say? kmc: my implementation isn't supposed to sound rude. 06:43:41 kmc: some esolang? :) what implementation do you prefer 06:43:48 1114) what did fungot say? kmc: my implementation isn't supposed to sound rude. 06:43:50 shachaf: I think in context it would have to be alcohol 06:44:00 why "too" 06:44:10 it sounds like "it" is another kind of drugz 06:44:16 maybe implying that FireFly was also drunk 06:45:03 when you said a sentence with "FireFly" in it i expected an immediate response 06:45:08 me 2 06:45:39 from FireFly 06:45:43 fungot-style 06:45:44 shachaf: is wright's softscheme available somewhere? :) imagine if the imagination of the syntax for them sane? i don't udnerstand why it's called that, yes 06:46:56 :o 06:46:59 fungotfly 06:47:00 FireFly: coded that already 06:47:06 uh-huh 06:47:39 I mighto not be a bot 06:47:58 fungot: have you coded funggo38 06:47:58 shachaf: i'm just not getting this. something happening somewhere? 06:48:28 zhongguo38 06:49:26 you fungotta do it 06:49:26 shachaf: you need to solve the assignment without too much problem, while someone else could help in the absence of software patents in europe as well and is the closing bracket 06:50:42 -!- carado has joined. 06:52:51 fungot: who's the closing bracket? 06:52:52 olsner: i'm running into an apparent conflict between ajax.request and magic's handling of json. it 07:00:19 fungot: I think the Xen you're in nowadays is affecting your "brain". 07:00:19 fizzie: and if there is any somewhat popular os without those. but for further refinement, i'm crippled if i can't find 07:05:11 you virtualized fungot? 07:05:11 kmc: it looks perfectly human and everything. obviously it had something to do 07:05:16 :O 07:06:33 BBC: Exercise 'can be as good as pills' 07:06:39 oh, they mean for your health 07:15:01 It was already on a Linux-VServer fakey-server (because it ran on a laptop with a non-PAE Pentium M and Xen dropped support for that in 2008 or so), I just rejiggled some hardware to make that a Xen guest instead. 07:17:12 (Also Debian dropped Linux-VServer starting from wheezy, and I had bad experiences with OpenVZ when I tried it out earlier.) 07:17:53 bochs or gtfo 07:17:59 (Apparently OpenVZ is also gone, since LXC is the new hotness when it comes to "containers-style" stuff.) 07:18:03 no wait, dosbox 07:19:28 (if you want containers you should probably use one of the solaris-derivatives and zones) 07:20:10 -!- TodPunk has joined. 07:20:14 fungot: Would you like to run in, say, ZBefunge in Frotz on DOSBox? (You'd have to port yourself to Befunge-93 first, mind you.) 07:20:14 fizzie: ye gads my connection is extremely slow....) fnord, offset fnord ( with no evidence) that the existing oss suck :) 07:20:28 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:21:36 -!- kmc has set topic: fnord, offset fnord (with no evidence) | PDF while supplies last: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | this space intentionally left right. 07:31:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 08:01:49 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:14:15 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:50:40 ^show source 08:50:40 (http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S 08:50:46 ^def source ul (https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98)S 08:50:46 Defined. 08:50:47 ^save 08:50:47 OK. 08:50:57 (I don't see why I should have to host that sort of things myself.) 09:02:33 (TIL: fungot is 58.2% Perl, 13.6% Python and 28.2% F#.) 09:02:33 fizzie: but just entering one would be: fnord .ijke:2,s 09:29:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 09:38:44 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:40:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:28:18 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:53:16 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:53:02 -!- yorick has joined. 12:57:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:58:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 13:00:44 -!- boily has joined. 13:01:37 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:03:09 -!- yorick_ has joined. 13:03:53 good strange-things-happen-with-the-topic morning! 13:06:06 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:09:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:09:39 -!- Bike has joined. 13:10:29 -!- azaq23 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:10:41 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:11:38 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:24:38 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:25:45 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:34:57 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 13:35:02 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:43:21 -!- carado has joined. 13:43:36 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:50:01 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:02:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:08:49 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 14:13:13 -!- alone has joined. 14:15:45 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:17:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:19:41 -!- yorick has joined. 14:21:05 -!- conehead has joined. 14:34:46 ^help 14:34:46 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 14:46:02 ^ul (()) 14:46:45 -!- asie has joined. 14:50:09 -!- asie has quit (Client Quit). 15:00:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:04:02 -!- asie has joined. 15:08:26 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:13:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:14:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:32:39 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 15:35:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:35:10 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 15:49:50 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:03:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:05:58 -!- asie has joined. 16:06:04 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 16:06:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:06:37 Hey, all you people! 16:07:22 hi, JWinslow23 16:11:23 So, I'm stuck on ideas for esolangs. Can you help? 16:11:39 I'm the creator of Drive-In Window, Pancake Stack, and Ecstatic. 16:12:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:13:01 The mystery of the midnight Moon hasn't been solved yet 16:13:22 What does that mean? 16:13:41 It means I saw a Sailor Moon cosplayer at half past midnight last night 16:14:02 mysterious 16:15:17 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:21:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:24:02 OK, I gotta go. Only got an hour and a half for lunch. 16:24:06 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:26:56 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:35:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:44:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:44:52 -!- Merengil has joined. 16:47:14 -!- Merengil has quit (Quit: Some folks are wise, and some otherwise.). 16:51:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:55:17 -!- Merengil has joined. 16:56:16 -!- asie has joined. 16:56:37 -!- Merengil has quit (Client Quit). 17:00:28 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:01:20 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:01:34 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:05:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:06:56 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 17:35:20 `relcome Uguubee111116 17:35:26 ​Uguubee111116: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:35:53 Taneb: were you at a convention? 17:37:55 boily, no 17:38:11 I was entering my accommodation complex 17:38:18 okay? 17:39:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:06:18 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:13:50 I'm going to this in a couple of weeks http://www.nationalcraftanddesign.org.uk/exhibitions/Next%20Main%20Gallery%20Exhibition 18:14:01 "Revolution in the Bedroom, War in the Playground: Video Gaming 1979-1989" 18:16:52 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:19:42 retrogaming is the way of the future! 18:21:19 fungot: Have you ever been a "revolution in the bedroom", if you know what I mean? 18:21:20 fizzie: i'm _also_ saying that you can't make an impact on static reasoning that we do not need to be 18:22:13 I'll have to try static reasoning next time I'm with my SO. 18:26:54 -!- Bike has joined. 18:37:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:39:45 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:42:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:43:02 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:45:22 -!- ^v has joined. 18:49:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:56:25 -!- Bike has joined. 19:00:59 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:04:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:09:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:11:33 -!- Bike has joined. 19:15:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 19:19:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:21:35 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:31:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:38:18 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:45:51 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:48:23 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:48:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:51:55 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:58:09 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:00:49 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 20:10:44 -!- augur has joined. 20:48:08 bazaar is crap. 20:54:09 Is there a (probably non-D) VCS with a command line tool called "cthdrl" already? 20:55:22 There does not seem to be. A shame. 21:03:09 is that related to LoL? 21:03:17 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 21:06:23 I'm back! 21:06:48 hell o 21:06:53 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++. 21:08:07 That's brainf*** for Hello 21:08:19 ^help 21:08:19 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 21:08:20 obviously 21:08:25 hm 21:08:28 !help 21:08:28 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 21:08:33 !bf_txtgen Hello 21:08:38 ​61 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>. [362] 21:08:50 you beat egobot, good job 21:09:06 actually no 21:09:29 EgoBot seems to print something else 21:09:31 a newline i guess 21:09:46 you would have at least 4 chars less without that 21:09:52 ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+><<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>. 21:09:52 Hello. 21:09:58 oh, a . 21:10:04 still 4 chars 21:10:07 ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++. 21:10:07 Hello 21:10:13 odd 21:10:21 why? 21:10:37 because periods suck 21:10:39 the offest thing is >< of egobot 21:10:43 *oddest 21:11:01 bf_txtgen is very heuristic i guess 21:11:21 I made a language called Ecstatic. The program to echo input to output is "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". 21:11:22 it could at least filter obvious nops 21:11:37 JWinslow23: nice 21:12:05 It converts BF commands to a string of !s. That BF program was ",." 21:12:24 how does it do that? 21:12:30 It also has an esolangs.org wiki page. 21:13:25 i see 21:14:55 Yeah. It takes 4,611,686,021,782,831,112 exclamation points to print "Hello". I wonder what a Hello World program would be? 21:15:37 shouldn't be that hard to find out, just takes a while to calculate 21:18:14 I have yet to find out what binary to decimal converter to use. It has to handle at least 334 binary digits! 21:18:21 so the program is like, unary-coded? 21:18:37 Yeah, but instead of "0", "!" is used. 21:18:48 like binary program -> number X -> X !s 21:18:53 JWinslow23: shouldn't matter 21:18:55 you should use ! and ¡ 21:18:57 gosh, that's some nice exponential code size inflation :P 21:19:01 at least it probably compresses pretty well. 21:19:03 xD 21:19:17 there are languages which have arbitrary large integers 21:19:20 like ruby 21:19:34 kmc: that'd be much shorter, indeed 21:19:36 If only there was a possible way to represent these programs in an actual form. 21:20:09 perhaps you could "compress" the exclamation points, representing the number of exclamation points in some more compact fashion 21:20:14 JWinslow23: did you write an interpreter? 21:20:47 Bike: what would need at least a second character 21:20:56 No. I have only ever programmed in esolangs (and a bit of Batch), and I have no idea how in an esolang (or Batch). 21:21:07 for(uint64_t i = 0; i < 4611686021782831112ULL; i++) putc('! 21:21:09 '); ? 21:21:09 myname: GHC's Integer actually has a max of 2^(64*2^64) or so, what bullshit 21:21:35 is that part of GMP 21:21:35 Fiora: that's a lot of chars 21:21:47 not sure Bike 21:21:52 Fiora: What was that? 21:21:57 gibraltar mounted police 21:22:04 the program is like, really really exclaiming itself. or something. I don't know 21:22:08 Fiora: there's something beautiful about writing a program like that, with the stop condition, as if you expect to actually run it to termination 21:22:16 XD 21:22:25 kmc: have you seen http://www.jwz.org/blog/2008/03/most-positive-bignum/? 21:23:04 kmc: About using ! and ¡, that is a good idea! that way we won't have the leading 1 and we don't have to convert to decimal! 21:24:26 Anyone seen my language, Pancake Stack? Or Drive-in Window? 21:24:33 wow 7 tag bits on a 32-bit word o_O 21:25:02 I had the idea for Drive-in Window last year, thanks for asking. 21:25:02 "But it's a zero that consumes 524 KB, and is not = to 0. " haha 21:25:47 * kmc pours one out for the LISP Machines 21:25:51 elliott: for(int n = 2;;n++){int m = n;while(m != 1) {m = (m%2)?m/2:m*3+1;if(m == n) return 0;}} // how about something like this? XD well okay I guess it'll eventually overflow 21:26:49 elliott: great link 21:26:56 Fiora: technically it's not actually possible to get an unbounded amount of storage with something that strictly conforms to the C specification, without cheating by using filesystem APIs and stuff ;_; 21:26:57 Lucky for me, I don't speak in a LISP 21:27:37 you may not be aware of it but you're speaking in a REPL! 21:27:52 ? 21:28:05 Fiora: because sizeof measures the size of types, including pointers, in bytes, and CHAR_BIT has to be a finite integer, so every type has a finite size, so memory has to be finite (because you can get pointers to it). so you actually can't write a perfect Collatz program or whatever 21:28:20 elliott: couldn't you, like, represent a number as a tree? 21:28:28 and like, it could go as deep as you wanted 21:28:36 Does REPL stand for Real Esoteric Programming Language? 21:28:42 actually, I think you can't take pointers to register variables or something? and the call stack isn't necessarily finite, but you can only access that in a stack discipline, so it still isn't enough for arbitrary storage 21:28:43 oh I guess you'd run out of pointer space or something ^^; 21:28:49 -!- conehead has joined. 21:28:52 I guess it could stand for that 21:28:56 right gosh I remember that conversation now 21:28:58 that was really silly 21:29:02 Fiora: yeah... the problem is you have to use pointers, and the standard requires them to be finite 21:29:08 Fiora: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/programs.html TCALC is cool. 21:29:27 (and in C) 21:29:31 not infinite though. 21:29:32 what's um. .w 21:29:46 it's just funny that like, an obscure corner kinda thing like sizeof interacts with requiring you to define a constant elsewhere and ends up magically requiring you to have finite storage 21:29:50 knuth's literate programming thing 21:30:01 I researched. It's read-evaluate-print-loop. 21:30:04 Fiora: .w is C code with a lot of TeX around it 21:30:07 linuxes sometimes have weave and tangle 21:30:08 Stupid acronym! 21:30:11 ohhhh 21:30:13 and um, macros. 21:30:17 er, cweave and ctangle. 21:30:39 the @<...@> stuff includes the code defined elsewhere with @<...@>= 21:30:44 ----------------------------- 21:31:03 I am working an an esolang called BASE-TWO 21:31:13 pleasedon'tbeabrainfuckderivative 21:31:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:31:29 or you could be oerjan 21:31:30 hi oerjan 21:31:39 Koen_: brainfuck is base 8, so there is hope 21:32:05 wat 21:32:08 Koen_: can an esolang be oerjan? 21:32:18 elliott: how about using files? IIRC files could be infinite 21:32:42 UReal Esoteric Programming Language: Sheer Disaster Download 21:32:48 (also how about this being the three thousandth time this being brought up here) 21:32:59 olsner: yeah, but then you're relying on the system more than C 21:33:05 hm, maybe there really should be a Sheer Disaster to go with Shear Disaster 21:33:34 are talking about C's computability class? 21:33:50 whether it can have arbitrarily sized bignums, at least 21:33:58 elliott: isn't stdio in the C library and defined in the C standard? 21:34:26 http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2013/10/important-customer-security-announcement.html "So, Adobe got owned" 21:34:46 I guess standard C might have enough filesystem API to let you do it? 21:34:51 Bike: um you realize "Shear Disaster" is probably a pun on the former, right? 21:34:52 you need relative fseek() 21:34:53 Koen_: didn't read the scrollback but it sort of looked like it 21:35:02 and ftell() has to be able to fail 21:35:02 bike: Oh no, not the source code! 21:35:12 oerjan: i realize nothing. 21:35:24 I think we decided that ftell was allowed to fail 21:35:35 *that the standard said that 21:35:59 but actually it was a while since I was having this discussion last time 21:36:29 Bike: i think i have realized that. would you like another kick? 21:36:45 JWinslow23: don't leave us hanging there 21:36:47 no 21:36:58 Where? 21:36:58 Bike: always with the negativity. 21:37:18 "Yes! I would indeed not like that!" 21:37:19 at the cliffhanger. you were talking about BASE-TWO 21:37:29 Oh, yeah. It will be a turning tarpit. 21:37:46 The wheel of commands will be +-><[],. 21:37:47 and the sole instructions are 0 and 1? 21:37:51 crap 21:37:55 Exactamungus. 21:38:01 JWinslow23: look at category:brainfuck derivatives or whatever 21:38:01 olsner: much better! 21:38:03 then never do this again. 21:38:16 1 Rotates the wheel in the current direction (initialized to right). 21:38:33 0 Executes the command and reverses direction. 21:38:34 JWinslow23: if you give me five minutes I could probably link two wiki pages describing that exact language 21:38:43 OK! 21:38:43 except maybe with other symbols for 0 and 1 21:38:45 brainfuck derivatives are boring 21:38:54 ohhhhhhhhh without the reversing direction though 21:39:10 I know, kmc, but I gave away my best two ideas! 21:39:52 JWinslow23: if you make a brainfuck derivative you'll have to live with what you did for the rest of your life 21:39:57 trust me you don't want that! 21:40:13 why not? 21:40:36 rotating wheel? so a brainfuck derivative turning tarpit? 21:40:51 Yeah, oerjan! 21:41:00 I do like the words "turning tarpit" 21:41:09 JWinslow23: i expect that still exists already. 21:41:21 What? 21:41:28 in fact i'm pretty sure i've seen it, but my memory is still vague. 21:41:50 try something with ' ' for spinning and ! for executing 21:42:12 Kay-kay. 21:42:29 what about a language being a total asshole in the way that it uses the exact same commands as brainfuck but changes the chars for them 21:42:43 i.e. <> for [], + and - swapped 21:42:44 has anyone made a meta-brainfuck derivative that has parameters for simulating 90% of the others yet 21:42:53 so + would do [ and > would do -? 21:43:07 or that, yes 21:43:15 that'd be pretty hard to write, though 21:43:26 oerjan: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainbrain ? 21:43:28 oerjan: yes 21:43:36 also elliott was faster than me 21:43:50 oh no wait this one is a joke 21:43:53 there's an actual one 21:44:52 hmm, something like a function (or interpreters of functions) [Char] -> [Int3]? 21:45:28 You know what? Has anybody made a language based off of checkers? 21:45:56 * oerjan stares at zzo38 21:46:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: most definitely not poulet, I swear.). 21:46:22 even if he's not here, he would be the one to do such a thing. 21:46:40 no, he'd use a board game way more obscure than checkers 21:46:52 point 21:46:56 You mean waving fingers? 21:47:08 The game is also known as Spellbinder. 21:47:21 Wait, that's a pencil-paper game. 21:47:26 Never mind! 21:47:32 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21:47:33 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Most_ever_Brainfuckiest_Fuck_you_Brain_fucker_Fuck 21:47:45 yeah, Spellbinder, that sounds more zzoic 21:47:47 Blognomic's current dynasty reminds me of spellbinder 21:48:01 How about Tictactoe? 21:48:28 !help 21:48:28 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 21:48:30 why not go? 21:48:52 !bf_txtgen I gotta go. Good to see ya! 21:48:56 ​228 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>--.>++.>--.++++++++.+++++..-------------------.<.>++++++.++++++++.>+.<<.<--.>>..<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.>+++++.-----.<.>++++.<<+..>.>++++++.<<----.>+.-----------------------. [556] 21:49:02 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:49:13 what do these numbers mean? 21:49:24 that's a nice piece of code but how can we read it 21:49:42 !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>--.>++.>--.++++++++.+++++..-------------------.<.>++++++.++++++++.>+.<<.<--.>>..<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.>+++++.-----.<.>++++.<<+..>.>++++++.<<----.>+.-----------------------. [556] 21:49:54 JWinslow23: hm apart from the pencil-paper part it sounds like something someone in my old gamer's club described once. i suppose you just need pencil and paper to keep track? 21:49:55 so not like that 21:51:14 oerjan: too late 21:51:37 myname: length of program and number of steps, perhaps? 21:51:54 i see 21:52:01 !bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>--.>++.>--.++++++++.+++++..-------------------.<.>++++++.++++++++.>+.<<.<--.>>..<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.>+++++.-----.<.>++++.<<+..>.>++++++.<<----.>+.-----------------------. 21:52:02 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:52:22 EgoBot: why are you not working 21:52:26 ^bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>--.>++.>--.++++++++.+++++..-------------------.<.>++++++.++++++++.>+.<<.<--.>>..<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.>+++++.-----.<.>++++.<<+..>.>++++++.<<----.>+.-----------------------. 21:52:27 I gotta go. Good to see ya!. 21:52:46 !sh echo hi 21:52:51 !help 21:52:51 fungot: don't leave! 21:52:51 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 21:52:52 olsner: anyways the compiler just needs to be 21:52:59 `run echo hi 21:53:00 Gregor: i think EgoBot is ill 21:53:02 hi 21:53:33 `interp bf '+++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>--.>++.>--.++++++++.+++++..-------------------.<.>++++++.++++++++.>+.<<.<--.>>..<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.>+++++.-----.<.>++++.<<+..>.>++++++.<<----.>+.-----------------------.' 21:53:35 I gotta go. Good to see ya! 21:53:48 cool 21:54:00 well 21:54:06 it was kinda obvious 21:54:15 since bf_textgen is supposed to do that 21:54:29 HackEgo does contain most of EgoBot's esolangs. not sure about the userinterps. 21:54:54 and of course it doesn't have bfjoust, i think. 21:55:07 !bfjoust areyouthere < 21:55:19 ​Score for oerjan_areyouthere: 0.0 21:55:25 oh _that_ works. 21:56:13 !bfjoust hurr [+>] 21:56:16 ​Score for olsner_hurr: 6.3 21:56:23 ìnter ocaml 'print_newline (let () = print_string "Hello, " in print_string "World!")' 21:56:39 `interp ocaml 'print_newline (let () = print_string "Hello, " in print_string "World!")' 21:56:40 exec: 4: ibin/ocaml: not found 21:56:53 too good to be true 21:57:04 EgoBot never had that afair 21:57:56 interp is for interpreters transfered from EgoBot to HackEgo 21:59:14 in theory you could install ocaml on HackEgo. 21:59:56 `which ocaml 21:59:57 No output. 22:00:02 `run which ocaml 22:00:03 No output. 22:01:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:03:56 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:05:29 `addquote BBC: Exercise 'can be as good as pills' oh, they mean for your health 22:05:34 1115) BBC: Exercise 'can be as good as pills' oh, they mean for your health 22:09:00 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 22:09:31 Koen, I gave you 5 minutes. What is the esolangs page called? 22:09:45 urh 22:10:13 You said the BASE-TWO page would be ready in 5 minutes. You said that 30 minutes ago! 22:10:27 gosh, such a slave driver 22:10:30 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Braincrash 22:10:44 Sorry, Fiona. He promised. 22:11:31 I've got another one but apparently he's not in the turning tarpits category 22:11:37 Tic-tac-toe based, anyone? 22:11:45 also I seem to recall saying "I could" which hardly qualifies as promising 22:11:59 JWinslow23: a cellular automaton? 22:12:19 Sorry, Koen. So, so sorry. 22:12:33 I cannot stress that enough. 22:12:47 elliott: quite ridiculous that none of us noticed http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=AutoMouse&curid=1235&diff=37443&oldid=30864 before :P 22:13:20 I think the spaces gone on by the players would do something. Corners could be output commands, for example. 22:13:32 oerjan: yeah, I facepalmed -_- 22:14:04 I did that, but I wasn't logged in. 22:14:09 It was at school. 22:14:30 JWinslow23: well you did good 22:15:08 Thanks! And the site wasn't dead, the Wayback Machine just can't archive it's own crawl pages, and apparently that's what happened. 22:16:13 hmm, doesn't the edited version link to an older version of the archived page? 22:17:32 yes, i just noticed that. trying to find the newest version now. 22:18:18 Anyone interested in Tik-Tak-Toe? 22:18:28 The esolang idea, I mean. 22:19:58 Maybe do something if the games are a win, loss, or tie, and on what square they won? 22:20:24 Yeah, I'll do that. 22:22:49 JWinslow23: as a general rule, we prefer to link to the newest web archive version of pages (excepting versions linking to error pages or domain squatters, of course) 22:23:04 although sometimes that takes a bit of searching to find. 22:23:11 Sorry, didn't have time to find that page. 22:24:54 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:26:49 `ls ibin 22:26:51 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ bf_txtgen \ boolfuck \ c \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ dimensifuck \ forth \ glass \ glypho \ haskell \ k \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ sh \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda \ whirl 22:29:15 «Every day at 2200 GMT, the Ghost of MNG joins the mozilla #developers IRC channel to berate us for going with APNG. http://pastebin.mozilla.org/3190427» 22:29:50 !help 22:29:50 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 22:30:02 !help bfjoust 22:30:02 ​Sorry, I have no help for bfjoust! 22:30:02 Bike: awesome 22:30:15 Bike: haha 22:31:27 I suppose JWinslow23 has been properly `welcome'd? 22:31:41 Or whichever is the current favourite variation of it 22:32:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:32:23 I prefer relcome 22:32:53 i prefer rainwords welcome 22:33:04 Is there an emoclew? 22:33:06 `emoclew 22:33:09 ​(.ten.lad.cri no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .egaP_niaM/ikiw/gro.sgnalose//:ptth :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW 22:33:15 There is an emoclew. 22:33:16 `emoclaw 22:33:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: emoclaw: not found 22:33:47 olsner: those are too dangerous for HackEgo to provide 22:34:02 I think there was an emoclaw around the time of the introduction of Grimmargorp 22:34:25 kmc: i want to make raincome its own program, but the name makes me want to make a Reich pun and i've got nothing. ;_; 22:35:19 what's the reich pun? 22:35:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Gonna_Rain it's gon' come down 22:36:03 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:36:03 ok 22:36:08 that's not what the word makes me think of 22:36:08 * Lymia nyas 22:36:14 hi Lymia 22:36:55 sup 22:37:31 G'evening 22:48:53 JWinslow23: i wrote an argument about Pancake Stack being turing complete iff values are unbounded. 22:49:12 They are. 22:49:52 JWinslow23: also http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust 22:50:22 hi Lymia 22:50:23 No, I know what that is. I just don't have a good strategy. 22:51:54 `rwelcome Bike 22:51:57 ​Bike: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:52:15 boring 22:52:36 Bike: i'm just saying it already exists. 22:52:37 * Lymia sits in elliott's lap :3 22:52:38 Mine 22:52:50 yes and it has a boring name. 22:53:36 that's not what the word makes me think of <-- i'm with kmc 22:53:56 Anyone gonna make a new program in Drive-In Window? 22:54:15 JWinslow23: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies ;) 22:54:54 hooray i'm not the only one with a dirty mind (?) 22:56:46 kmc: um connecting reich with the nazis makes you dirty now? 22:57:30 yes 22:57:33 er 22:57:43 I was talking about my association with "raincome" not reich... 22:57:46 (kmc was thinking of something else *giggles*) 22:57:54 ok. i have another association. 22:57:59 !bfjoust maybethisonewillwin? (>+>-)*4>([-]+>[-]->)*11 22:58:02 ​Score for JWinslow23_maybethisonewillwin_: 13.8 22:58:08 So low! 22:58:21 `run mv bin/{rwel,oz}come 22:58:25 No output. 22:58:34 Bike: :3 22:58:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:59:45 !help 22:59:45 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 23:00:01 !help languages 23:00:01 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 23:00:19 !bf_txtgen An addicting game I play is called Acheivement Unclocked. Play it sometime! 23:00:22 ​730 +++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++>+++++++++>+++<<<<-]>>-.<.>>>-.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++.>+.+++++.<-.<++++++.>>.<<------.>++++.>>.<<.------.<-.>++++.>>.<<----------------------------.>>.<<<+++.>>+++.<++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++.>>>.<---.<<------.>>>.<------.<.+++++++++++..>++.-.>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<-.<----.>++.<+.<+++.>----.>++++++++.<.+++++++++.<--.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23:00:34 JWinslow23: s/ei/ie/ 23:00:40 is this some kind of... bizarre spam? 23:00:41 achievement unlocked got boring fast, thankfully 23:00:52 Not spam. 23:00:57 .maps toN 23:01:02 Phantom_Hoover: the whole universe is a bizarre spam. 23:01:04 Kidding! 23:01:05 that's what a spam would say 23:01:13 You are a spam! 23:01:25 Bike, yeah, once you run out of the cute 'challenge' ones it's just a dumb slog 23:01:29 Bye! 23:01:34 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:02:24 ^ul (SPAM )S((SPAM )(SPAMMITY ))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 23:02:24 SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAMMITY SPAM SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAM SPAMMITY SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAMMITY SPAM SPAM SPAMMITY SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAMMITY SPAM SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAM SPAMMITY SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAM SPAMMITY SPAMMITY SPAM SPAMMITY SPAM SP ...too much output! 23:02:57 what's that sequence 23:03:19 the same sequence as always 23:03:33 oh, i guess it's spam once or twice and then spammity once or twice, over and over 23:03:48 ...is that the thue-morse sequence 23:03:55 > cycle "shit fuck hell damn ass " 23:03:56 CORRECT 23:03:56 "shit fuck hell damn ass shit fuck hell damn ass shit fuck hell damn ass sh... 23:04:13 kmc: i find your swearing boringly repetitive 23:05:21 it's lambdabot's swearing............. 23:05:25 ^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^ variation! 23:05:28 122112122122112112212112122112112122122112122121121122122112122122112112122121122122112122122112112212112122122112112122112112212112112212211212212112212212112112212211212212112112212112122112112122121122122112122122112112122112112212212112122112112212112112212212112122112112122122112122121121122122121122122112122122112112 ...too much output! 23:06:08 the fuck 23:06:47 well, not so much a variation as a completely different sequence. 23:08:58 ^ul (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^( )S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~:^):^ 23:09:01 ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^ :^^^:^^^:::^^^::::^::^^::::::^::^^:^^^::^:^^ ^^:^^^:^::^^:^:::^^:^^^:::::^^:^^^^^:^:^^^^^ :^^^:^^^:^^^^^::^^^^^:^::::^^^^^:::^^^^^:::: ^^:^^^:^^^:::^:^^:::^^^:::^^:::^::^^:::^:::: ^^^^:^^^:^::^^^^^::^^:^::^^^::^^:^^^::^^:::^ :::^^^:^^^:^^:::^:^^^^^:^^:^:^^^^^:^:^^^::^^ ::^^:^^^: ...too much output! 23:10:23 that one only looks right if you have the right setup so the "words" wrap and line up vertically. 23:11:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:11:33 (which happens to work in irssi with 80 columns.) 23:11:48 well, my irssi setup anyway. 23:13:48 (also these are all on the wiki, modulo some tweaking to make them work in irc) 23:18:18 oh, a . <-- it's actually a newline which fungot converts to a period 23:18:19 oerjan: or that... explicitly. you can debug just a portion of the screen, then do the complex probabilities work for qubit states?) work :) 23:18:54 oerjan: it didn't on the line ending with ! 23:18:56 fungot: i don't think underload does quantum computing very efficiently yet. 23:18:56 oerjan: which i think looks nicer for some things i dislike with plt code using `case-lambda'? you don't know 23:19:58 myname: no i mean, if you try print a newline from ^bf, fungot prints a period instead. 23:19:59 oerjan: now i type fnord, not for me... except when the file is in one of them is the same 23:20:13 *+to 23:20:53 and same with some other control characters. 23:20:54 oerjan: the question is: why did bt_gentext added a newline there 23:21:20 myname: because EgoBot includes the newline in the text fed to commands. 23:22:21 oerjan: as i said: it didn't on the other line ending with ! 23:22:50 i haven't found that line. 23:23:26 23:48:51 !bf_txtgen I gotta go. Good to see ya! 23:25:29 myname: yes it did, when that was run with fungot. with HackEgo it's invisible, though. 23:25:30 oerjan: or it doesn't. the macro section uses define-macro... that's all :(. well, if i can provide the whole language, actually 23:25:46 Oo 23:26:03 strange bot stuff happening here 23:27:06 it's simple: EgoBot's !bf_txtgen includes the newline. fungot's ^bf turns newlines into periods on output. HackEgo strips trailing newlines in its output. 23:27:35 also, HackEgo turns internal newlines into " \ " 23:27:42 `yes 23:27:43 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 23:27:51 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 23:27:56 yeah, "simple" 23:28:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:29:48 -!- Bike has joined. 23:30:00 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Client Quit). 23:33:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:36:03 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 23:36:26 -!- ^v has joined. 23:37:14 Anyone gonna suggest anything for my Tic-Tac-Toe language? Program form, maybe? 23:37:54 Nim 23:38:22 JWinslow23: you could make a bf derivate depending on where the winning line is placed ;p 23:38:56 So, the outer border could be some of the bf commands and center a nop? 23:39:04 each tic you tac on a new toe 23:39:27 Wtf was that? 23:40:16 it was an Oerjan Wordplay™ 23:40:51 Woerdjplayn 23:40:58 You trademarked that? Then I will "strike back! 23:41:19 ™ 23:42:01 is "striking like 'pataphysics 23:42:09 you put the TM in the quotes. innovative 23:42:12 i am also in the quotes. 23:42:46 Bike: no you are not, i ended them. 23:42:58 hm, true. 23:43:00 Messed up on that. Anyway, I don't want the program sizes to be really big, unlike all of my others. So, Pancake Stack™. 23:43:02 or wait, we're in the single quotes. let's fix that' 23:43:15 no, in "'pataphysics" it's just part of the word 23:43:21 NOW we're in single quotes. thanks jackass!! 23:43:25 O'KAY 23:43:51 `ord ) 23:43:53 41 23:43:57 Hey, easy! This is a family IRC! 23:44:11 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:44:11 the simpsons family, maybe 23:44:25 ^bf +++++[->++++++++<]>+[.] 23:44:25 ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ... 23:46:29 if we're a family IRC, we need to make a more child-friendly version of brainfuck. also this joke is not even new. 23:46:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:48:00 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:48:03 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:48:24 i think i chased them away. 23:48:36 mnoqy? you may have!! 23:48:38 Instead of shooting yourself in the foot, in COBOL, you put ARM.HAND.FINGER on COLT45HANDGUN.TRIGGER and SQUEEZE COLT45HANDGUN.TRIGGER 23:48:56 where is btiggins when you need him. 23:49:25 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:49:57 wait, have we made more than one cobol guy in here 23:50:26 oh, no that was the same guy, right. 23:50:44 you know what's great about cobol? 23:50:47 me neither. 23:51:01 oh it's btiffin 23:52:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 2013-10-04: 00:22:58 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:38:17 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:51:17 -!- PiRSquared has joined. 00:53:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:56:35 -!- kmc has joined. 01:05:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:08:51 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:19:48 wow we have a fizzie, a fizziev, and a fizziew 01:20:31 are fizzievp and fizzievpe next 01:20:43 an abundance of fizzie entities 01:26:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:27:49 the next will be the outsourced cnzzie version. 01:41:57 fizzie's non-union Canadian equivalent? 01:42:05 er, Chinese 01:45:11 no uszzie? poor us :( 01:46:05 what about suzzie 01:47:04 is that the root of all fizzies? 01:47:25 suzzie disappeared back in the early nineties. 01:48:59 is there any good alternate history fiction where the soviet union survives into the Internet age 01:55:35 suzzie q, i love you, suzzie q 01:56:03 technically the soviet union _did_ survive into the Internet age. 01:56:05 kmc: yes, it's called "modern china" 01:56:22 oerjan: it collapsed within months of eternal september. 01:56:44 oerjan: I'm (conveniently) defining "Internet age" as a time when the Internet is a pervasive part of everday life for a substantial fraction of all people 01:57:01 kmc: how silly 01:57:06 -!- Bike has joined. 02:02:14 hm funny today is the anniversary of the end of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis 02:02:36 -!- augur has joined. 02:03:02 i always confuse that with the 1991 thing, because i'm dumb 02:03:36 i was briefly wondering if quintopia had done so 02:04:09 "because i'm dumb" :D 02:04:19 wow thanks myname?? 02:04:20 (although that's not how i found it, it's on wikipedia's On this day...) 02:05:46 also 56 years since sputnik 02:32:00 Oh, kmc, I wanted to ask your opinion about an article? 02:32:37 ok 02:32:39 http://www.eighty-twenty.org/index.cgi/tech/scheme/fexprs-remain-inscrutable-20110929.html 02:33:31 «Calling Kernel's Fexprs "trivial" doesn't seem quite right to me; perhaps calling them "inscrutable" would be a better fit.» uh? 02:34:35 point 1 is obvious, point 3 is interesting (saying that what should be an implementation detail of higher-order functions can get exposed) 02:35:12 Actually, I take back point 1 being obvious. Just its conclusions about compilability 02:35:28 point 3 is mentioned in shutt's thesis, he cites some paper that mentioned basically the same problem in the 80s 02:36:58 you can dealwith it somewhat with ($define call (c . args) (apply c args)) and then using (call f ...) instead of (f ...) 02:37:08 problems with this left as an exercise to the chatter 02:44:49 i love how you guys make more serious discussions about programming and the theory behind it than every other channel i know 02:44:54 does anyone else think it's crazy that "feedback" didn't exist as a concept before like a hundred years ago 02:55:13 Is Concurrent ML any good? Reason I ask is I think Racket is sucking CML's di.. concurrency mechanisms 02:55:21 -!- azaq23 has joined. 02:56:14 how does one suck a concurrency mechanism 02:57:16 with a lot of spit 03:01:22 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 03:03:32 Hey! 03:03:58 What 03:05:12 No, I meant Hi. 03:06:45 `run WeLcOmE JWinslow23 | rev | rainwords 03:06:48 ​).tEn.lAd.cRi nO CiReToSe# YrT ,aCiReToSe fO DnIk rEhTo eHt rOf( .eGaP_NiAm/iKiW/GrO.SgNaLoSe//:pTtH :iKiW RuO TuO KcEhC ,nOiTaMrOfNi eRoM RoF !tNeMyOlPeD DnA NgIsEd eGaUgNaL GnImMaRgOrP CiReToSe rOf bUh lAnOiTaNrEtNi eHt oT EmOcLeW :32wOlSnIwJ 03:06:54 I am still stuck on commands for my Tic-Tac-Toe esolang. Can you help? 03:07:47 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:07:58 i suspect this esolang will come to nought. just cross it out. 03:08:10 what should a command be? a move? a board? a full board? 03:09:01 I am thinking a move. But for that to work, we would need different commands on each space for each round. 03:09:20 If we don't want repeats. 03:09:39 you could do nim sums of tic-tac-toe games. 03:09:55 `run WeLcOmE EgoBot | rainwords 03:09:58 ​EgObOt: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 03:11:08 oerjan, what are nim ums? 03:11:23 Sums! Damn you auto correct! :) 03:12:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nim 03:13:24 the nim sum of two games is where a player can choose which of the games to play at each step. 03:14:15 That explanation was...confusing. 03:14:46 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 03:14:51 ok it works best for games where there is no difference between the two players. 03:14:59 -!- Bike has joined. 03:15:09 especially games resembling nim. 03:16:06 every impartial game is equivalent to a nim heap of a certain size (Sprague-Grundy thm) 03:16:33 And how big would they be? 03:16:35 but I think the idea of a tic tac toe esolang could be simpler than that 03:16:50 It should. 03:17:22 `help 03:17:23 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 03:18:08 how is hackego secured? 03:18:38 JWinslow23: the size of the nim heap is less than the max number of moves remaining, i think. 03:19:07 myname: lots of ways. 03:19:17 -!- JWinslow23_ has joined. 03:19:37 myname: it runs in an umlbox sandbox, for a start. 03:19:38 Sorry I was out. Wha were we saying about my idea? 03:21:09 i don't actually have an idea about a tic-tac-toe esolang that would be interesting in the way i think of as interesting (i.e. with the tic-tac-toe tied to the _semantics_ of the esolang, rather than just its encoding or syntax). 03:21:45 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:22:01 well, which would be able to write interesting programs in that semantics. 03:22:03 Maybe we could do something like COBOL! (No, not that one.) 03:22:46 what if you had generalized tic tac toe, and a program was a starting position. then the action of the program is somehow encoded in the perfect play after that position. 03:23:22 Bike: way too short imho 03:23:35 what? 03:23:51 he did say generalized, i assume that means unbounded board 03:23:56 yes. 03:24:05 also, the name has to do with cheese and crackers, because pajama sam is my hero. 03:24:26 ...okay. 03:26:31 -!- JWinslow23_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:26:54 i don't make the rules, oerjan; i just enforce them. and the rule here is clear. 03:27:02 oh no 03:41:29 `slist 03:41:31 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:41:55 you should find a UML 0-day 03:42:09 shit, maybe buy one, gotta be cheap 03:43:49 lol 04:00:40 htf is it 6am already 04:01:10 i am a bit unfamiliar with the lack of hths here 04:01:10 -!- asie_ has joined. 04:03:20 -!- asie_ has quit (Client Quit). 04:16:48 -!- fizziev has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:17:25 -!- fizziew has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:35:03 -!- PiRSquared has quit (Quit: .). 04:36:10 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 04:51:38 -!- myndzi has quit (Excess Flood). 04:52:28 -!- myndzi has joined. 05:01:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 05:16:11 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:24:09 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:08:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:13:28 -!- carado has joined. 06:26:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Dodo, I miss you). 06:29:51 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111116). 06:32:13 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:38:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:40:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:45:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:50:49 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 06:52:00 :( 06:52:50 `slist happenings including the law against a controlled rage, and a hopeful fork 06:52:54 slist happenings including the law against a controlled rage, and a hopeful fork: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 07:16:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:18:45 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:51:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:59:15 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:07:11 oh, talking about C corner cases, here's one I found in mingw, and now I don't know whether it's correct or not 08:07:17 #define STIRINGIFY(x) #x 08:07:34 int main(void) {puts(STRINGIFY(a\r)); return 0;} 08:07:45 in mingw, it prints "a" then a carriage return 08:08:14 however, backslashes are escaped correctly if they appeared in any context that would be syntactically legal if it weren't a macro argument… 08:10:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:10:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:11:52 `pastlog tunes.org/~ 08:12:05 (not that the "past" is needed atm...) 08:12:25 No output. 08:12:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:13:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:13:12 `pastlog tunes.org/~ 08:13:29 2007-04-29.txt:18:42:07: -!- ihope_ has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09"). 08:16:07 -!- ais523 has set topic: fnord, offset fnord (with no evidence) | PDF while supplies last: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | this space intentionally left right. 08:20:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:32:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:32:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:45:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:46:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:56:21 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:56:39 -!- carado has joined. 08:57:23 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 08:57:32 -!- carado has joined. 08:57:42 -!- carado_ has joined. 08:59:07 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:12:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:41:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:04:58 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:05:19 gah, Ubuntu's login prompt is really really dangerous from a security point of view 10:05:31 it prefills the username and asks you to type the password 10:06:01 which means you get into the habit of just writing the password without the username first, meaning you can accidentally type it into an echoing field whenever you use a different system 10:07:06 interesting idea 10:26:17 ais523_, thus rendering you vulnerable to people-staring-over-your-shoulder attacks 10:26:44 don't forget vnc and webcams 10:30:19 -!- ais523_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:33:07 what kind of webcam is pointed at your own screen 10:33:46 the one of the hackers, obviously 10:40:34 Also: reflections in your eye. 10:40:58 (You just rectangle-select it and say "enhance".) 10:41:27 YEAAAAAAAAAH 10:42:16 fizzie, that's why I always squint when typing my password in 10:42:48 or, you could use text-mode login that doesm't display anything when writing pass 10:43:26 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:43:30 I've written my password on the input line of this IRC client due to "I'm sure this computer is xlock'd but I don't want to bother waiting for the screen to wake up before typing in the password". (Though I take care to not press enter before actually seeing the dialog.) 10:43:46 but what if you accidentally type it as username? 10:52:43 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:58:27 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:01:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:28:02 -!- asie has joined. 11:29:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:34:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:35:13 -!- Koen__ has joined. 11:35:21 -!- augur has joined. 11:41:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:44:05 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 11:46:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:52:41 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 12:05:16 Help 12:05:18 hi 12:05:24 I'm laughing at my own joke and I can't stop 12:05:31 that happens 12:05:38 sounds funny 12:05:41 mind sharing? 12:05:59 Someone posted on Facebook, "yay making friends" 12:06:19 I replied, "Making friends is the best.", followed by, "The only bit I find difficult is attaching the arms." 12:07:21 that almost makes me wish I had a facebook account 12:07:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:08:07 not quite though 12:08:22 just not funny enough to motivate getting an account 12:09:02 hm, a joke would have to be pretty dang funny to motivate such a horrible thing wouldn't it 12:16:07 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 12:19:43 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:24:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:29:43 -!- yorick has joined. 12:38:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:45:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:46:50 Is it possible to double a cube with the power of origami? 12:49:30 Apparently so 12:50:03 good to know 12:50:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:51:58 Double the cube, double the fun. 13:00:22 -!- boily has joined. 13:01:44 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:10:02 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 13:10:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:11:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:11:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:13:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:14:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:21:00 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:23:11 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 13:25:29 -!- carado has joined. 13:44:07 good sorry-for-the-sudden-metar morning! 13:44:10 ~metar CYUL 13:44:10 CYUL 041300Z 05013KT 30SM BKN080 BKN210 15/08 A3014 RMK AC6CI1 SLP205 13:46:13 -!- asie has joined. 13:54:22 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 13:58:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:59:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:13:19 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 14:13:40 -!- ^v has joined. 14:14:54 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Excess Flood). 14:15:09 -!- asie has joined. 14:15:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:15:52 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 14:17:15 -!- carado_ has joined. 14:17:35 -!- conehead has joined. 14:18:45 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:19:08 and from now on, I have glorious blue cherries under my fingers :D 14:26:31 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 14:28:31 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:35:30 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:47:44 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:48:16 -!- carado has joined. 14:48:32 -!- carado_ has joined. 14:51:13 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 14:54:10 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:54:40 -!- nisstyre has joined. 15:01:34 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 15:02:21 !bf_txtgen Happy CB Radio Day! 15:02:25 ​193 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++>++>+++++<<<<-]>>++.<-.+++++++++++++++..+++++++++.>>++++.>---.-.<.<++++++++++.+++++++++++++++.+++.+++++.++++++.>.>++.<<--------------.<.>>+.-----------------------. [148] 15:03:01 -!- shikhin__ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:03:57 JWinslow23: CB radio day? 15:04:06 10-4? 15:04:10 oh 15:04:11 heh 15:04:33 Heh, the time is also 10-4! 15:04:41 it is? 15:04:42 @localtime JWinslow23 15:04:43 Local time for JWinslow23 is Fri Oct 04 10:04:42 2013 15:04:45 where be you? 15:04:47 Yeah, 10:04 15:04:57 nortti: can I ask him the The Question? 15:05:03 boily: go ahead 15:05:04 What Question? 15:05:16 JWinslow23: what are your approximate cördinates, and body weigh? 15:05:22 darn. missed a o. 15:05:28 coördinates, says I. 15:05:36 (I still need to get used to that shiny keyboard.) 15:05:38 No idea, but somewhere in Wisconsin. I weigh about 110 pounds. 15:05:44 thanks! 15:07:02 JWinslow23: you a CB radio user? 15:07:24 No, but I always her 10-4 on walkie talkies. 15:07:44 Hear! DYAC! 15:07:58 Dang you auto correct! 15:08:04 on phone? 15:08:22 I sometimes use walkie-talkies. Not cell phones. 15:08:26 `pastewisdom 15:08:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 15:08:57 no, I mean are you using IRC on a phone 15:09:12 No, on a school computer. 15:09:27 school computer has autocorrect? O_o 15:09:37 `run Welcome RaidoUsers 15:09:43 bash: Welcome: command not found 15:09:55 `run WeLcOmE RadioUsers 15:10:00 RaDiOuSeRs: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 15:10:35 -!- carado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:10:48 -!- carado has joined. 15:13:09 School computer has no autocorrect, I just joked about that. 15:13:20 Honest mistake! 15:14:49 So... 15:15:13 I think I have an idea for my Tic-Tac-Toe language. 15:15:15 @tell oerjan you stealth quoted me 4 days ago! 15:15:15 Consider it noted. 15:15:26 JWinslow23: is it recursive? 15:15:29 @help 15:15:30 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 15:15:34 @list 15:15:35 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 15:15:41 @listmodules 15:15:41 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search slap 15:15:41 source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where 15:16:12 Boily: I don't THINK so. 15:16:24 The center square and winning move are NOPs. 15:16:35 All other squares are commands. 15:16:42 Still figuring out that they are. 15:16:50 Don't want another BF derivative! 15:17:05 Sorry, I meant "what they are". 15:31:04 @help poll 15:31:04 poll provides: poll-list poll-show poll-add choice-add vote poll-result poll-close poll-remove 15:31:23 @help poll-add 15:31:24 poll-add Adds a new poll, with no candidates 15:31:45 @poll-add Should I go on with my Tic Tac Toe idea? 15:31:46 usage: @poll-add with "ThisTopic" style names 15:32:02 @poll-add ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea 15:32:02 Added new poll: "ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea" 15:32:11 @help choice-add 15:32:12 choice-add Adds a new choice to the given poll 15:32:29 @choice-add ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea Yes 15:32:29 New candidate "Yes", added to poll "ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea". 15:32:37 @choice-add ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea No 15:32:37 New candidate "No", added to poll "ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea". 15:32:51 @choice-add ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea Maybe? 15:32:51 New candidate "Maybe?", added to poll "ShouldIusemyTicTacToeidea". 15:33:01 @help vote 15:33:01 vote Vote for in 15:34:35 -!- conehead has joined. 15:34:53 `run WeLcOmE conehead | rainwords 15:34:57 ​CoNeHeAd: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 15:35:29 dear lord this is the best welcome to date 15:36:32 :D 15:37:07 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:40:25 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 15:41:25 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 15:41:28 Yeah. 15:41:34 That was a good welcome. 15:41:51 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:43:37 D: 15:43:42 I got three welcomes, and that wasn't one. 15:43:44 * shikhin sobs. 15:44:20 `run WeLcOmE shikhin | rainwords 15:44:23 ​ShIkHiN: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 15:44:28 Yayy! 15:44:34 `run WeLcOmE shikhin | rainwords | tac 15:44:37 ​ \ \ ShIkHiN: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 15:44:57 `run WeLcOmE shikhin | tac | rainwords 15:45:00 ​ \ ShIkHiN: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 15:45:24 * boily kicks tac in the... hmm... does a unix command have reproduction organs? 15:45:36 yes, stdrepro 15:46:45 `paste bin/WeLcOmE 15:46:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/WeLcOmE 15:48:03 oh, interesting. still written in py 15:48:23 I though someone would've rewritten it in perl by now 15:49:33 or a python interpreter written in perl. 15:50:20 hmm, not gonna do that 15:50:29 at least not over hackego 15:56:51 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:56:59 yield to the Asinine and Useless side of the Programming. let free your sanity inhibitions! 15:58:56 -!- carado has joined. 15:59:03 my sanity inhobitions I've let free when I wrote python program that had no statements, only expressions 15:59:28 but writing a perl program over hackego would just be too much of a pita 15:59:49 well, unless I figure out how to nicely simulate ed, that is 16:00:09 I think you know what to do. let the yaks roam and be shaved! 16:01:02 well, I do 16:01:15 it'd just not scale to multi-user 16:03:40 oh. 16:12:03 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:19:28 `? scapegoat 16:19:30 scapegoat? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:19:56 olsner, the @ of version control 16:28:35 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:28:39 -!- asie has joined. 16:36:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:01:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 17:11:32 -!- Bike has joined. 17:21:07 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:26:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:33:14 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:34:06 `words 17:34:11 dill 17:35:27 That's too dilly. 17:35:33 `words --finnish 1 17:35:35 ahananne 17:35:47 `words --estonian 17:35:48 Unknown option: estonian 17:36:00 `words --list 17:36:02 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M 17:36:21 `words --esolangs 17:36:23 sartre 17:36:27 yeah 17:36:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:36:36 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:36:45 `run words --swedish --finnish 10 # let's get some of that Swedo-Finnish stuff going 17:36:47 telsertapa sellistenemanan banansarskeiskys fixeri aukebatalat konaivuamiintron asigniner tempiltimurkes vacks sum 17:37:36 does that like run a markov thingy on a mix of swedish and finnish data? 17:38:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:39:09 It's a character... trigram? 4-gram? Something like that, I forget exactly. 17:39:16 And if you specify multiple options, it just interpolates. 17:39:36 (As in, sums the frequencies.) 17:39:54 aah, ogerman is probably o-german, not oger-man 17:40:50 is it weighted by the size of the input sets? I imagine --esolangs --x would not be very esolangy otherwise 17:41:18 olsner: I think all the models are normalized, but not sure. 17:41:49 `words --eng-1M --esolangs 15 17:41:53 whailyletornentallyido ado dup lazzo ora son guo wierding befear sho affic miscudal yllangi abn evill 17:42:08 Well, that's not conclusive, but it looks quite esolangy. 17:42:27 (And whailyletornentallyido is probably quite a nice language.) 17:43:39 dup is an esolang, isn't it? and befear is probably from befunge +/- some letters 17:45:49 Dupdog is. Apparently DUP is, too. 17:45:49 what's updog? 17:46:53 I was sort of expecting befear to actually exist, but seems that there's just Befreak. 17:47:49 begrunge, a nirvana-based esolang 17:53:02 Begrudge, a language where the implementation runs your program but isn't happy about it at all. 17:56:39 that sounds a little like INTERCAL 17:58:09 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:00:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:00:57 -!- asie has joined. 18:05:28 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:05:42 -!- Bike has joined. 18:08:26 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:17:07 Well 18:17:17 I managed to get to the semifinal without actually winning a match 18:18:37 what competition? 18:18:46 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 18:19:58 nortti: writing an AI for a Battleships-like game to run on a RaspberryPi 18:20:06 ah 18:21:08 I almost actually got to the final without winning a match 18:21:14 how? 18:21:28 My opponent almost got disqualified for misentering twice 18:21:40 :D 18:21:47 I saved him out of the kindness in my heart 18:22:09 And the fact that if I managed to get to the final without winning I'd feel really unfulfilled 18:30:37 -!- asie has joined. 18:32:53 Taneb, oi, start a succession fort 18:33:38 Phantom__Hoover: I can't right now on account of the only computer I have access to which I am willing to install software on is a Raspberry Pi 18:33:49 And tomorrow is Freshers' Fair 18:33:53 Maybe tomorrow evening 18:34:13 goddamn you 18:34:39 how does freshers work in universities that actually have a week for it 18:35:43 Basically, you have a week to get settled in with stuff like "This practical is where you learn to turn on a computer" 18:35:55 And then for one day all the societies try to get you to join them 18:36:02 And then it's over 18:37:05 oh that does just sound like the first week at warwick 18:37:22 except the societies all try and get you to join on tuesday through thursday 18:56:04 anyone suggestions for naming my hardware in general or my new mini root in detail? 18:56:26 Rhizobia 18:57:00 huh? 18:57:10 A name. 18:57:28 where does it come frome? 18:58:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:00:42 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:01:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:01:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:04:10 myname, it's one of the nitrogen-fixing bacteria in plants or something 19:07:14 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:35:28 -!- Bike has joined. 19:39:54 -!- shikhin has changed nick to driyoyleujiy. 19:42:34 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:47:27 finally out of formation. 19:47:42 uuuuuuuuurgh... that was long. but now, I understand enterprisey stuff! 19:48:09 hooray, apparently 19:48:45 nah. 19:48:56 I'm feeling dizzy on so many levels it's not funny. 19:48:59 woe, apparently 19:49:23 the woe is amply felt, and I'm confused as ever about manufacturing processes. 19:55:20 `rot13 pung 19:55:22 chat 19:56:43 incidentally, that means scrotum 19:57:03 that's the second definition on urban dictionary about pung. 20:05:49 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:29:36 -!- driyoyleujiy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:34:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:40:51 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:51:48 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 20:52:15 Happy CB Radio Day! 20:53:55 some day, I'll get an amateur radio license... 20:54:00 * boily dreamily looks in the sky 20:54:41 is the license in the sy or just the radio waves 20:56:48 license in the sky with radio waaaaves ♪ 21:05:51 * JWinslow23 doesn't give a BF 21:06:12 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 21:08:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:10:01 -!- Bike has joined. 21:15:22 the new swearing idiom, after the Fungottian Conjugations, “to give a BF”. 21:17:31 That was mine! 21:18:58 `learn JWinslow23 is a Wisconsinite who doesn't give a BF. 21:19:13 I knew that. 21:22:42 `help 21:22:42 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:23:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: probably poulet tonight. maybe. but don't bet on it.). 21:23:09 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:23:16 `run JWinslow23 21:23:18 bash: JWinslow23: command not found 21:23:26 Dunno your syntax. 21:24:07 it's a shell 21:24:11 `run echo JWinslow23 21:24:13 JWinslow23 21:28:06 `echo %JWinslow23% 21:28:08 ​%JWinslow23% 21:28:25 `run it 21:28:28 no. 21:28:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:28:43 `If you're happy and you know it, SYNTAX ERROR! 21:28:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found 21:28:56 - 21:29:01 I will improve that. 21:29:14 `If you're happy and you know it, ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found 21:29:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found 21:29:24 `If you're happy and you know it, ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found 21:29:26 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found 21:29:42 `If you're happy and you know it, then your face will surely show it, if you're happy and you know it, ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found 21:29:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: If: not found 21:29:54 Good, right? 21:31:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:38:42 [Quit "Something went wrong." 21:38:48 [Quit "Something went wrong."] 21:38:51 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:39:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:41:06 Error: something's wrong. 21:41:17 Error: an error occurred 21:47:23 someone make a clever `? telling people to experiment with the bots in /query 21:48:28 doing irc in private sounds ultimately boring 21:49:23 -!- alone has quit (Quit: Pislik Script ! with Self clearing virus System! Download it at 9www.PislikleR.com). 21:50:06 I remember HL engine games that would crash with "Error: no error" 21:50:17 the Linux equivalent is usually "Error: Success" 22:01:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:03:08 @messages-loud 22:03:09 boily said 6h 47m 53s ago: you stealth quoted me 4 days ago! 22:03:31 @tell boily i don't recall there being anything stealthy about it. 22:03:31 Consider it noted. 22:03:48 `run allquotes | tail -4 22:03:50 1112) It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up" \ 1113) aaaaaurgh. you're making me think on a Monday! that shouldn't be happening! \ 1114) what did fungot say? kmc: my implementation isn't supposed to sound rude. \ 1115) BBC: Exercise 'can be as good as pills' oh, they mean for your health 22:09:22 @tell Gregor ais523 evicted your logs from the topic, you might want to fix them. 22:09:22 Consider it noted. 22:14:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:21:46 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:25:52 school computer has autocorrect? O_o <-- it's so the pupils will get used to computers being maddenly annoying. 22:29:51 @tell boily also, you are still confusing tac and rev 22:29:52 Consider it noted. 22:31:09 `run WeLcOmE | wc 22:31:12 ​ 2 30 234 22:31:22 `run welcome | wc 22:31:25 ​ 1 30 233 22:31:38 `cat bin/WeLcOmE 22:31:40 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | CaT 22:31:55 `cat bin/CaT 22:31:57 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ print (lambda s: "".join([(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read()) 22:32:02 I always mix them up, too 22:32:33 is tac the one that reverses order of lines? 22:32:38 yes. 22:32:49 Okay, good, hopefully I'll remember that 22:32:49 what's the python for printing without a newline? 22:34:12 Good question. Unfortunately I don't know python 22:34:19 add an extra comma at the end 22:34:29 like in ... basic? 22:35:46 olsner: i think that's perl, not python 22:36:04 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/493386/how-to-print-in-python-without-newline-or-space 22:36:34 hmm, so comma adds a space instead of newline? 22:36:58 oh hm... 22:39:01 `run sed -i -e '1aimport sys' -e 's/print/sys.write/' bin/CaT #Let's see how much i messed this up 22:39:06 No output. 22:39:14 `cat bin/CaT 22:39:15 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ sys.write (lambda s: "".join([(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read()) 22:39:32 `run WeLcOmE | wc 22:39:36 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/CaT", line 3, in \ sys.write (lambda s: "".join([(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read()) \ AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'write' \ 0 0 0 22:39:44 fancy 22:39:50 oops 22:40:07 `run sed -i 's/write/stdout.write/' bin/CaT 22:40:12 No output. 22:40:15 `run WeLcOmE | wc 22:40:18 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/CaT", line 3, in \ sys.stdout.write (lambda s: "".join([(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read()) \ TypeError: must be string or read-only character buffer, not function \ 0 0 0 22:40:46 * oerjan swats python -----### 22:41:55 `run sed -i 's/write /write (/;s/read(/read()/' bin/CaT 22:41:59 No output. 22:42:02 `run WeLcOmE | wc 22:42:05 ​ 1 30 233 22:42:11 `run WeLcOmE 22:42:14 WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 22:42:21 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:44:19 um 22:44:29 oerjan! 22:44:32 mu 22:44:36 i was wondering 22:44:52 that's dangerous! 22:46:32 cosider a class of programs in which every program P can, given the right integer as input, output the listing of any other program in this class 22:46:34 quintopia: also what happened to your webside, we had to link Spiral to Wayback. 22:46:40 *site 22:47:38 does it make sense to talk about the maximal such class? 22:47:54 no. 22:47:56 i lost it when i stopped paying for it 22:48:55 there is clearly a program which ignores its input and prints itself (i.e. an ordinary quine). it cannot be extended, and there are many such, so "the" cannot apply. 22:49:29 *its single-program class cannot be extended 22:52:07 okay 22:52:12 otoh the set of programs that can print _anything_ given an integer as input is such a class, i should think. although it might still be extendable. 22:52:13 maximum then 22:52:30 yes, i would expect the most inclusive such class 22:52:36 to contain cat at least 22:52:42 but 22:52:45 it's the "the" that's the problem, not the "maximal" :P 22:52:49 is the most inclusive class 22:52:54 even computable? 22:53:19 it's obviously non-existent. just make two programs that can print anything, except each other. 22:53:32 which one should you include? 22:54:29 you can always find a maximal class, using zorn's lemma on the class you start with. (you might even be able to tweak it to be constructive to list.) 22:55:21 no wait, cannot be constructive/computable, it will be undecidable whether a program can be added to the class. 22:55:56 because you cannot check whether a program can print a given other program. 22:56:52 unless you start out with a class that is artificial limited to only decidable programs as the common output 22:56:58 Someone sent a tombstone to the creators of COBOL in 1960! http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/X572.85 22:57:09 *ally 22:57:21 oerjan: what if you throw an equivalence relation over your programs 22:57:31 "if they do the same thing, they're the same program" 22:57:46 Koen__: that's not going to _help_ decidability. 22:57:47 and then reprensent every equivalency class by a decidable program 22:58:31 Koen__: there are probably programs that have no decidable equivalent programs. 22:59:02 even in the set of programs that print listings of other programs of the class given integers as input? 22:59:26 argh brain 23:00:01 every program is equivalent to the sequence (output(n))_(n\inN) 23:00:36 surely you can make a decidable program matching that sequence? 23:00:51 or maybe not 23:01:13 um those programs don't match quintopia's initial problem afaict 23:01:55 sure you can make decidable programs for a simple example. the problem is coming up with anything interesting where you can decide for _all_ the members. 23:05:40 nice, you can write any old HTML/CSS/JS in jsfiddle and then immediately download it as a Firefox OS mobile app 23:12:30 `rot13 pungdjur 23:12:32 chatqwhe 23:12:41 disappointing 23:12:43 oerjan: what's the proof that it's impossible to prove an as-inclusive-as-possible maximal set is maximal 23:12:48 `rot13 pungdyr 23:12:50 chatqle 23:14:01 `rot13 djur 23:14:03 qwhe 23:14:14 `rot13 dongs 23:14:15 qbatf 23:14:33 quintopia: i don't know, but i am saying you have to construct your maximal set very carefully to ensure no undecidable-whether-you-can-add-them candidates arise 23:14:51 and it might very well be impossible to do so. 23:15:06 in what situation would it become undecidable whether you can add them 23:15:47 -!- Bike has joined. 23:16:38 quintopia: if all the programs already printed are capable of printing a program whose halting problem is undecidable, and if it does halt the part after the loop belongs to the class... 23:16:48 *already included 23:17:10 hmm 23:17:39 and that's just the simplest context i could think of 23:18:22 you could also have programs at some point for which it is undecidable whether they can print a given other progra¨m 23:20:22 if you try to include only programs for which such things are decidable, then it may not be maximal in the original sense because there would always be a program with undecidability issues that _could_ be added. 23:20:51 so does this mean the existence of an as-inclusive-as-possible such class is undecidable? 23:21:52 i am not claiming to have any proof. 23:22:50 class of what now 23:22:53 an added problem is that you have not defined "as-inclusive-as-possible" 23:23:04 Bike: we have logs. 23:23:18 but not gregor's, i note 23:23:38 Bike: ais523 removed them. the .txt version still works. 23:24:03 why are they removed 23:24:08 the class of computable enumerations? hm 23:24:17 doesn't "A is as-inclusive-as-possible" mean "there is no set B (fitting the same criteria ) 23:24:27 such that A is included in B"? 23:24:39 Bike: ask ais523, but my guess is because the link leads to a date listing page where the most prominent links _don't_ work. 23:24:59 yes, i have been the most active Gregor-complainer during the crisis 23:25:01 Koen__: no, that's "maximal". 23:26:10 i understand quintopia to mean something else by "as-inclusive-as-possible", something that excludes my example above of every quine forming a single-element maximal class. 23:26:49 quines take input now? 23:27:06 Koen__: no, they ignore it. 23:27:06 and ignore it 23:27:09 (I was trying to be funny. sorry) 23:27:19 jokes are disallowed in this space-time vector 23:27:29 but since there are obviously subsets of programs that exclude each other, the concept of "inclusive" seems _very_ vague to me. 23:27:43 to include something, you have to exclude something else. 23:28:19 and in what sense is whatever you include then "inclusive" if that's to mean something other than maximal. 23:28:35 oerjan: i don't know how to define it. i suppose the one you get by starting with all quines, then modifying them so they can all print each other 23:30:06 quintopia: i suspect a horrible mess of possible alternative definitions. 23:34:21 Bike: i never notice the log problem personally because my habit is to just bring up the last .txt link on the address line and edit the date. 23:34:34 *bar 23:34:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 23:35:16 i kinda like the formatting 23:35:36 i cannot stand the font size 23:35:36 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 23:35:47 it's fine if i zoom out. 23:35:55 oh... i think it's the same size as the .txt for me. 23:37:43 or wait, i may have to set the font size instead, i recall one of the options causes horrible wrapping. 23:37:52 Hi 23:37:57 hineb 23:38:18 (as in, the messages gets wrapped to right below the corresponding nick, iirc) 23:38:22 *get 23:39:23 in any case, since .txt from the address bar means less tweaking, i use that. 23:40:10 well except in some cases, when the .txt gets horribly broken and i switch to the formatted version. 23:40:18 -!- augur has joined. 23:40:31 right-to-left stuff sometimes does that. 23:41:11 (and it affects the whole _rest_ of the file after it.) 23:42:54 i wish Gregor would set the encoding on the .txt file, for some reason IE 10 hides the option to select utf-8 if it hasn't autodetected it deeply in a horribly long list of charset options. 23:43:25 imo, fuck IE 23:43:30 (old IE 8 had utf-8 conveniently placed.) 23:44:34 does it have "codepage 65001" 23:44:41 kmc: you're so predictable. also, does whatever you use have changing a wrongly detected encoding in a convenient place? 23:45:32 yeah both Chrome and Firefox make that convenient 23:45:46 I love that you can introduce security holes by convincing users to change the character encoding (or tricking the browser) 23:46:12 kmc: i don't see 65001 on the list. 23:46:18 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:46:32 admittedly the list isn't _that_ long, but utf-8 isn't on the first page. 23:46:33 I think I'm OK with being predictable 23:58:26 "With Silk Road shut down, developers are finding it hard to do a rolling deploy" -- Hacker News Onion 23:58:48 haha i get it, it's about "blunts" 23:58:52 are you ok with being decidable? 23:59:08 Bike: so close yet 23:59:22 this is me and every drug joke. right here. the platonic bike reaction. 23:59:38 Koen__: the alternative is having unbounded state, which seems more terrifying 2013-10-05: 00:00:32 if you live a continuous life you'll probably endure an uncountable infinity of states 00:00:41 big if. 00:02:00 i for one pride myself on living moment to moment. 00:04:53 lol continuum is a lie 00:07:04 kmc, don't Zeno's paradoxes pretty much state "both time and distance are neither discrete nor continuous"? 00:08:45 most of what i get out of zeno is "dang, calculus is nice" 00:09:25 Although Achilles and the Tortoise is a bit silly 00:09:34 Anyway, goodnight 00:09:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:13:39 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:13:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:14:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:23:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:27:51 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:28:12 -!- ^v has joined. 00:38:08 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:49:04 -!- conehead has joined. 00:51:54 -!- ^v has changed nick to v^. 00:52:03 -!- v^ has changed nick to ^v. 00:53:49 -!- ^v has changed nick to dan200. 00:58:38 -!- dan200 has changed nick to ^v. 00:59:56 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:01:46 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:04:15 -!- ^v has joined. 01:23:21 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:48:25 -!- dessos has left. 01:55:24 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 02:21:34 I don't think Racket thinks I'm a consenting adult 02:22:13 ...? 02:24:05 Things like not letting me force code that calls raise to continue after the raise unless the code itself supports it 02:24:57 do you and Racket have a safeword 02:25:40 he's just forgotten to use the unsafeWord 02:38:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:39:12 I replaced the power supply and now this computer works. 02:40:51 However, this power supply has three lights labeled "A", "S", "T", and a red button below them. The "A" light is lit blue. Do you know what this means? 02:42:57 it's abstract, but not syntax or a tree. 02:58:16 what happens if you press the button 03:00:25 I didn't push it yet. 03:05:59 well 03:06:02 maybe you ought to 03:09:13 i dunno, what if "A" is for "atomic" 03:12:56 zzo38: did that fix the noise as well 03:13:36 kmc: Installing the new power supply fix the noise and everything else that was going wrong. 03:15:10 Now in this Dungeons&Dragons game I have to find some leader of some resistance against Aberration Hater (which runs over the entire city they are in) in order to rescue someone from being imprisoned, but it is difficult to find and I will need some advisor helping with it and will need a boat and there are other problems too 03:17:10 what's the boat for 03:17:43 We can travel by water or by land, but there is another war going on in the land; a boat might be better way. 03:17:56 So it isn't strictly necessary but I expect it to help. 03:19:18 Also some dwarf came in to say we finish our quest and gave us three horses and a silver ring; another wizard said he didn't trust him. Maybe that is correct; maybe he trained the horses wrong on purpose or something; I don't know. 03:22:04 I know about this resistance and imprisonment due to some kind of hallucination when trying to escape out of the demon's castle, it interrupted the escape and then the voice of my character's father's friend said some things, I tried to write it down but found only seaweed to write it on and only white ink to write with; but later on I found that it was actually written on paper, not seaweed, and with black ink, not white ink. If he is who he said 03:22:08 That might help. 03:22:24 Oops did I send this message wrong? Did it get cut off? 03:22:46 (I got a ":cameron.freenode.net 421 zzo38 in :Unknown command" even though I typed no such command) 03:24:54 zzo38: it cut off after "If he is who he said" 03:25:14 If he is who he said he is, then I suppose my character's father's friend is a speaker in dreams. 03:25:27 Why did I get that error message? 03:25:47 (This is a single-threaded IRC client) 03:26:02 zzo38: perhaps you wrote the rest as a raw message? 03:26:34 i mean, the part after what was cut off 03:26:53 oerjan: I didn't; I wrote it all on one line before pushing the carriage return key, and then it came up this error message. 03:29:18 zzo38: well afaiu "in" is the command that was unknown. 03:29:37 oerjan: Yes, I can see that too 03:30:05 maybe the "in dreams." overflowed a buffer and got sent raw? 03:30:09 ("in" doesn't occur after that except as the second to last word) 03:31:30 oerjan: Do you mean after the CRLF is sent somehow? I don't know how. 03:32:53 the "i" is the 519th character. 03:37:51 I tried the red button it changes which light is lit and seems to affect the fan speed. 03:39:40 "Automatic", "Silent" and "Terrifying", clearly. 03:41:00 I get slightly bad video again but only when the CPU is in use a lot, it seems. 03:41:54 And not as bad as before. 03:44:14 Maybe I will need some spell to write on the water. 03:44:55 Anti Rhei 03:46:02 How do you clone the serial number and capacity of a hard disk? 03:46:43 didn't fizzie do something similar the other day 03:47:06 to move a windows installation 03:47:39 or someone here did, anyway. 03:48:14 except it wasn't actually the same capacity, he moved it from a hard disk to a smaller SSD iirc 03:49:24 I mean if you have a disk with a larger capacity and a different serial number and you want to move it so that it has the same serial number and capacity as the old one (so that a part of the new one isn't used) 03:50:53 ok. well i don't know anyway. 04:27:47 The video now only looks bad when I am standing far away from the computer. 04:28:00 It looks correct from close up. 04:29:27 `slist sb&hj 04:29:32 slist sb&hj: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:47:35 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:50:53 `danddreclist 42 04:50:55 danddreclist 42: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 04:52:17 The other thing I ought to do before going in the boat is to summon a familiar, but there are no stats for a leech in any of the books. There also isn't any stats for a big leech that we can downgrade (my brother's suggestion). 04:52:49 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:58:57 just take a banker and downgrade that. 05:00:01 Hm... No, that won't work. 05:00:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:00:29 can't imagine why. 05:01:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Rebooting.). 05:03:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:07:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:07:39 grr 05:07:45 Watching talk on Go concurrency 05:07:58 Talks about how concurrency != parallelism 05:08:12 Then goes on to say how concurrency is 05:08:25 Is the video card or video cable bad? Is there something wrong with the surge protector? 05:08:37 "(Much nicer than dealing with the minutiae of parallelism (threads, semaphores, locks, barriers, etc.)" 05:09:14 Yeah, those things are totally features of parallelism rather than poor models of concurrency 05:49:49 -!- asie_ has joined. 05:50:09 -!- asie_ has changed nick to asie. 06:11:23 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:14:19 -!- azaq23 has joined. 06:21:56 -!- carado has joined. 06:24:56 I think it does seem to have something to do with the video card. 06:25:27 Now it seems I am getting bad video only when the video memory is being written. 06:35:17 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:37:09 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:02:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:02:39 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:39:23 onfail $ run $ head -10 "README" 07:39:24 has the same meaning as: 07:39:24 (onfail (run (head -10 "README"))) 07:39:25 o.O 07:44:09 -!- asie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:44:36 -!- asie has joined. 07:46:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:54:20 Sweet Sherlock and Hella Watson update 08:07:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:10:59 -!- nisstyre has joined. 08:12:42 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 08:37:01 -!- asie has joined. 08:46:21 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 09:07:15 -!- Lymia has changed nick to Mayushii. 09:13:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:14:46 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:54:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:57:48 Do you like this latest update for Dungeons&Dragons game recordings? 10:22:39 -!- asie has joined. 10:27:38 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111116). 10:33:03 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:06:50 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:21:28 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 11:38:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:43:37 -!- asie has joined. 11:44:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:45:14 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 11:46:59 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:47:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:55:49 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:04:42 -!- yorick has joined. 12:27:41 -!- AnotherT- has joined. 12:27:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:27:41 -!- AnotherT- has changed nick to AnotherTest. 12:35:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 12:40:36 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:05:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:07:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:44:18 I've found another three articles about Core War in old magazines and added them to the list http://www.retroprogramming.com/2011/11/bibliography-of-programming-games.html 13:45:43 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:01:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:02:04 `quote at the same time 14:02:12 1031) ok confession time because of the whole "generation" thing i thought that kids were born in waves until i was like twelve and everybody like reproduced at the same time \ 1062) I would like to learn how to use a sword And also how to ride a unicycle Perhaps not at the same time 14:02:31 You'll never guess what societies I've joined 14:02:56 the unicycle sword juggling society? 14:05:21 Your local fencing club? 14:09:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:11:23 olsner is closer 14:15:46 JuggleSoc said they'd teach me to ride a unicycle 14:15:59 cool 14:16:07 MedievalSoc said they'd teach me to use a sword 14:16:49 are they seriously named like cyberpunk security organizations 14:17:17 Yeah 14:17:23 There's even HackSoc 14:17:36 amazing. 14:17:46 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 14:17:54 do you get complementary mirrored glasses for joining 14:19:12 I hope so 14:22:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:22:18 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:23:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:28:31 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:28:38 Otherwise what is the point 14:30:27 I need to find a song I can sing to show off my singiness 14:31:10 HANG UP THE CHICK HABIT HANG IT UP DADDY YOYO hth 14:31:57 Koen__: is that going to get me into the cast of Jesus Christ Superstar 14:32:04 I hope not 14:32:23 -!- nisstyre has joined. 14:32:27 but try having some car chasing going on while you sing 14:32:27 Hmm 14:32:31 and maybe a lapdance 14:32:46 that could make a great movie 14:35:47 I was thinking If I Were A Rich Man 14:39:36 I have texted my actor-friend for advice 14:39:46 Hopefully he will not see me as a rival 14:42:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:42:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 14:42:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:42:35 are they seriously named like cyberpunk security organizations 14:42:37 yes 14:42:51 i asked the sociology society if they were called SocSoc and they said yes 14:51:10 :D 14:53:22 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:56:45 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 15:11:14 Apparently there are at least 6 Homestuck fans at the University of York 15:23:21 Is that group called StuckSoc? 15:26:48 No 15:27:00 You need 15 to start a society 15:27:33 And as far as I know none of them has met more than three 15:28:19 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 15:28:56 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:29:20 I suppose that's a security measure. 15:30:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:32:56 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin_THE_mast. 15:33:15 -!- shikhin_THE_mast has changed nick to shikhin_mogw. 15:34:14 -!- shikhin_mogw has changed nick to shikhin. 15:34:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 15:34:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:36:14 my smoke/co detector sems to be hallucinating a fire 15:38:32 It's saying smoke, not co. If it was saying co, I wouldn't assume it was hallucinating 15:54:02 -!- AnotherT- has joined. 15:54:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:54:03 -!- AnotherT- has changed nick to AnotherTest. 15:54:48 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:57:26 I finally got my Tic-Tac-Toe idea into a wiki page! 15:59:05 I hope my detector wasn't misreporting CO as fire 15:59:14 Huh? 15:59:41 My smoke detector/CO alarm went off, reporting smoke, no evidence of any fire anywhere in sight 16:00:16 Now? 16:00:52 j's right, what if the fire got time-displaced? 16:00:59 A few minutes ago 16:01:17 I threw it away, worried that it would disturb neighbors 16:01:43 It stopped chirping shortly after reaching the dumpster 16:03:16 So, anyone have any suggestions for the Tic Tac Toe language? 16:03:31 you just... threw away your smoke detector? 16:03:44 Makes sense. 16:03:58 Much easier than, say, removing the battery. 16:04:04 And you get to buy a new one. 16:04:06 ... 16:04:15 Yeah, what if the old one was faulty? 16:04:27 ion: I tried to remove the battery. I failed. 16:04:35 What if it burst into flames... would be ironic, won't it? 16:05:02 (Is it legal to throw smoke detectors to normal trash? They contain a small amount of radioactive material, and in this case, also a battery.) 16:05:07 I just realized how suspicious an uncomfortable-looking person holding a beeping device wrapped in a blanket must seem 16:05:22 Some neighbor saw me on my way to throw it out 16:05:43 ion: my dad claims yes, so... maybe? 16:06:13 Every time I come here, I see a lot of smart people...oh look, you're all here too! 16:06:22 shikhin: I got rid of a smoke alarm that emitted a smell of smoking electronics when i powered it up once. 16:07:04 (I left it at a recycling center.) 16:07:09 I am concerned what if there is actually somethign in my apartment triggering it 16:07:31 Are the other detectors silent? 16:07:50 JWinslow23: I like the idea of a tic tac toe language. but WHY would you make it a brainfuck derivative? :( 16:08:19 I wanted other commands, but I didn't have any ideas! 16:08:21 I only have/had one detector 16:09:09 Well, you'd sure as hell know if it was right, and something really is wrong :-) 16:09:19 sgeo: ಠ_ಠ Do you only have one room? 16:09:20 ¯|¯⌠ 16:09:20 /< | 16:09:39 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:09:39 ion: two rooms. Bathroom, and rest of apartment 16:09:59 Although there's a very short hallway leading into the bathroom, so there's a divider wall 16:10:00 ok 16:10:05 Although there's a very short hallway leading into the bathroom, so there's a divider wall 16:10:07 oops 16:10:13 end chorus 16:10:15 Although, I guess kitchen is semi-separate 16:10:46 shikhin: unless alarm misreported CO as fire... 16:10:56 Anyone have any other ideas for commands on my tic tac toe board? I do NOT want any more bf derivatives! >:-[ 16:11:24 * shikhin 's house lacks any sorts of alarm detectors, let alone CO detectors.. 16:11:29 s/alarm/fire/ 16:11:54 maybe you should get some. 16:12:20 Bike: I live in a third world country, heh. 16:13:46 are they expensive? 16:14:00 i think every buildin i've ever lived in has had them preinstalled, now that i think about it 16:14:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:14:44 I'll change it to a stack based language. I will have to have help, though. 16:15:06 What will be the 8 commands? 16:16:06 already sounds like underload 16:17:03 Well, if no one will help me, we'll be stuck with this BF derivative forever. 16:17:17 And ever... 16:17:21 And ever... 16:17:25 And ever... 16:17:27 And ever... 16:17:30 And ever... 16:17:33 And ever... 16:17:36 And ever... 16:17:39 And ever... 16:17:42 And ever... 16:17:45 And ever... 16:17:47 And ever... 16:17:50 And ever... 16:17:53 And ever... 16:17:55 And ever... 16:17:58 And ever... 16:18:00 And ever... 16:18:03 And ever... 16:18:06 And ever... 16:18:08 And ever... 16:18:11 And ever... 16:18:13 And ever... 16:18:15 And ever... 16:18:18 And ever... 16:18:21 And ever... 16:18:23 And ever... 16:18:27 shut up. 16:18:28 And ever... 16:18:32 OK. 16:18:41 why is there no flood-kicking bot? 16:18:47 Just don't want a BF derivative. 16:18:54 because most of us aren't stupid enough to spam the fucking channel. 16:18:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:19:32 JWinslow23: C is just a BF derivate :p 16:19:48 BF was a C derivative. 16:20:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 16:20:33 -!- elliott has kicked JWinslow23 don't flood. 16:20:34 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 16:21:10 myname: You just witnessed our fleshy flood-kicking bot in action. 16:21:29 a little delayed 16:21:30 * Fiora god was kicked from #earth by Noah [don't flood] 16:22:00 does that mean elliott is satan 16:22:09 I don't know 16:22:18 I think he’s just Santana and/or Santa. 16:22:19 -!- ^v has joined. 16:23:46 elliott: how did you obtain the power to kick God? what deal have you wrought out? 16:26:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:28:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:31:18 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 16:31:39 Sorry about the flood, you guys. I promise I won't ever again. 16:31:45 Scout's honor! 16:32:27 I'm still looking for ideas on how to make TicTacToe stack-based, though. 16:33:38 Anyone have any tips? 16:34:31 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:34:45 i had some ideas on how a program may look like, but it isnn't closely based on the game 16:35:11 What? 16:35:37 So you know, I want it to be like the original at least a little bit. 16:35:46 like, each command is made out of 2 numbers that represent a move, moving again on the same spot will remove that mark, the programm terminates if one player has won 16:36:31 Still isn't stack based, though. i also want it to follow the rules of the game. 16:36:53 Like, you don't throw the checkers board at someone's face, do you? 16:42:30 How else would you play? 16:43:23 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:43:44 Sgeo: throw the pawns at someone's eyes 16:45:17 Logs fixed. 16:46:26 -!- ^v has joined. 16:46:58 so imagine you've got a checker's game going on 16:47:15 every pawn carries a value 16:47:38 pawns that get captured go to the prisoners queue of the appropriate colour 16:48:28 whenever a pawn reaches the end row, it gets promoted: a pawn is taken from the appropriate prisoner queue and pushed on it (so it's a stack of pawns) 16:49:04 note that promotion happen not only to single pawns, but to any stack which reaches the end row 16:50:06 popping an empty queue presumably returns a fresh pawn with value 0, so that memory isn't limited 16:50:22 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:50:49 now the question is: how to program this game? 16:51:30 would be fun if a program was a list of directions, strategies, etc 16:51:40 and the game is played at runtime by a bot following those directions 16:53:21 sad thing is, currently the number of stacks is limited to the number of pawns initially present on the board, and even though the total number of pawns is unbounded, the number of stacks can never grow, and it will in fact decrease every time a stack is captured 16:53:49 maybe that's okay 16:54:53 directions can be of the kind "whenever you can capture, capture" or "if you can promote, promote" or whatever 16:55:06 -!- conehead has joined. 16:55:20 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:55:38 -!- conehead has joined. 16:55:59 currently, interaction between the two sides can only be done through play; black values are completely independant of white values 16:56:06 unless you can give directions that depend on the values 16:56:18 yes, you probably can 17:03:00 -!- Koen__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:03:20 -!- Koen__ has joined. 17:07:11 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:18:56 Gregor: thank you! 17:19:22 -!- Bike has set topic: fnord, offset fnord (with no evidence) | PDF while supplies last:u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | this space intentionally left right. 17:19:28 oops. 17:20:12 -!- Bike has set topic: fnord, offset fnord (with no evidence) | PDF while supplies last: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/log/sesoteric/ | this space intentionally left right. 17:23:20 -!- ion has set topic: fnord, offset fnord (with no evidence) | PDF while supplies last: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/log/sesoteric/ | this spacetime intentionally left right. 17:31:44 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:40:31 -!- erterrr has joined. 17:40:47 -!- erterrr has left. 17:49:48 sesoteric? 17:50:09 hi? 17:50:15 topic? 17:50:16 oh in the url 17:50:19 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:50:21 mutation 17:50:33 I miss mutation 17:51:31 -!- Bike has set topic: fnord, offset fnord (with no evidence) | PDF while supplies last: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | this spacetime intentionally left right. 17:51:48 What kind of mutation? 17:52:14 hardy-weinberg violating mutations 17:53:08 wow so you can plug a Firefox OS phone into your computer, open up the Firefox developer tools on the computer, and inspect / debug / mess with the running app on the phone, in realtime 17:53:39 so if you don't like the background color or whatever you can just fix that 17:54:44 also we have a pure JavaScript implementation of Flash which is good enough to play some real games etc, and it's in FF nightly 17:55:02 impressive. 17:56:32 good for a lot of reasons, one of which is that new versions of Adobe Flash on Linux are Chrome-only :/ 17:57:33 uh, wow, that's gotta suck. 17:57:36 But can it do the one thing that people actually use Flash for: Play videos 17:57:58 flash should die 17:58:02 Flash games are popular too 17:58:13 but I don't know what the status of video is 17:58:39 it seems like it shouldn't be that hard, because you only need to run enough Flash to get a video URL to hand off to the browser's already existing video support 17:58:43 but I don't know shit really 17:58:54 kmc: that debugging thing I think other things can do too for web sites 17:58:57 of course we'd rather people use HTML5 video 17:59:12 iOS's browser can be hooked up to Safari on Mac 17:59:33 Sgeo: but you can do it for any FxOS app, because they're all using Web tech 17:59:41 that's the cool part imo 17:59:54 Ah 18:01:58 myname: yep 18:16:25 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 18:17:02 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:25:11 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:27:00 -!- Zuu has joined. 18:34:45 -!- kmc_ has joined. 18:35:37 -!- kmc_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:38:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:44:57 -!- asie has joined. 18:59:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:00:50 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:01:01 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:01:20 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:04:30 -!- yorick has joined. 19:25:09 -!- yiyus has joined. 19:32:06 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:34:18 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:35:36 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:38:45 -!- yiyus has joined. 19:40:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:45:53 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:49:07 -!- ^v has joined. 19:49:24 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 19:49:42 -!- ^v has joined. 19:58:26 shachaf: do you share my intuition that a hash trie where each node is refcounted would have terrible performance? 19:58:58 (in a concurrent setting anyway) 19:59:06 due to making every node 1 word bigger + atomic ops overhead + loss of cacheline sharing 19:59:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:59:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:01:13 * impomatic is searching for a copy of CoreMaster by Think Software. Zero hits from Google, so I might struggle... 20:01:30 kmc: what sort of structure would it be replacing? 20:04:30 I don't have a specific application in mind, but the advantage over a flat hash table is that you get pure-functional update / cheap snapshotting, and the advantage over a simple search tree is that it's a lot faster 20:05:18 I guess if it's mostly read, and rarely written to, it'd be okay, right? 20:05:32 maybe 20:05:33 I guess that'd be a hash table where you can easily remove things, right...? 20:05:41 but in that case you could also consider copying a flat hash table 20:06:16 well the unique thing is more that your add/modify/remove operations give you a "new" datastructure (which mostly shares nodes with the old) rather than modifying in place 20:06:20 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:06:33 how does that work O_O 20:06:44 wouldn't each node have like, pointers to its child nodes and stuff? 20:06:47 yes 20:06:50 do you know how it works for a plain binary search tree? 20:06:58 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:07:03 I... I guess you replace the node you're changing, and all of its parents? 20:07:10 if you implement a BST in Haskell in the most naive way, you get this for free ^_^ 20:07:12 yes 20:07:24 so you end up modifying... log(N) of the tree nodes if it's balenced? 20:07:25 so if the tree is balanced, you copy only O(log n) data 20:07:26 *balanced 20:07:27 yep 20:07:46 and a hash trie is a tree where instead of going left/right based on a pairwise comparison, you go left/right based on the bits of a hash output 20:08:00 and furthermore you probably want a 16- or 32-way fanout instead of 2-way 20:08:25 and furthermore most of those 16 or 32 pointers will be NULL most of the time, so you can use clever bit tricks to store nodes sparsely 20:08:39 and fit each node into a cache line 20:08:54 64 bytes is pretty big for a node, isn't it? or am I missing something 20:09:19 64 bytes is a cache line, isn't it? 20:09:31 or fit multiple nodes in a cache line, I guess 20:09:41 but you take care that they're aligned, anyway 20:09:56 there'd only becontention if you had multiple nodes in a cacheline, right? 20:11:29 you mean with refcounting? 20:11:59 oh you mean contention with like, multiple threads updating a single node at the same time? not cacheline contention with like, multiple nodes being modified in the same cacheline 20:12:14 the problem is that when you do a functional update, you need to bump the refcount on the nodes you're reusing (even though you aren't modifying them at a semantic level), and this will kill sharing of that cacheline between cores 20:12:18 yeah 20:12:29 ohhh. but doesn't that mean modifying the trie is O(N)? 20:12:38 so nodes will bounce between caches in exclusive mode, instead of being shared, which is what you would want from ostensible immutable data 20:12:39 because you have to modify O(N-log(N)) nodes' refcounts 20:12:49 or am I totally wrong here 20:12:56 I think no, because you only count immediate referants not transitive referants 20:13:12 the child of a node you're reusing already has a refcount from its parent 20:13:39 but you're creating O(log n) new nodes that refer to some old ones 20:13:58 okay, so you update the refcounts on all the children of your new nodes? 20:13:59 and you need to bump the refcount on all the old nodes 20:14:01 erm, immediate children 20:14:06 yeah, I think so 20:14:12 not all the old nodes... okay that sorta makes sense 20:14:24 so it's log(N) * some constant refcount updates and log(N) new nodes ish? 20:14:43 I think so 20:15:24 though a 16-fanout hash trie over a 64-bit hash will have a maximum depth of 4, anyway 20:15:47 If you have 16-fanout, isn't that just 4 bits? 20:15:48 so I shouldn't say O(log N) 20:16:01 ah, yes, I can't count 20:16:05 depth of 16 then 20:16:16 what's 4 orders of magnitude between friends 20:16:32 Absolutely nothing. Here, have a flower: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131005-flower.jpg 20:16:44 (I just wanted an excuse to share the photo.) 20:16:54 <3 20:16:57 what kind is it? 20:17:13 maybe instead of addrefing the new children you could just addref the old node you copied 20:17:19 that overcounts one reference to something you've removed from the new tree, but you can fix that later 20:17:25 hm 20:17:26 No idea. I think I was told, but I've forgotten already. 20:17:48 olsner: do you then need to keep a pointer to the old node so you can collect it when the new one goes away? 20:18:08 (wave hands until reaching a working algorithm) 20:18:41 yes, you'd probably need another pointer somewhere 20:18:49 Huh, Oxford University Flower Recognition Demo actually maybe even recognized it, I think: http://zeus.robots.ox.ac.uk:8080/flower_demo/demo_result?id=3152 20:18:55 At least the first hit looks quite similar. 20:19:16 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:19:27 Er, not the first, the fourth. 20:19:43 woah that's a thing? 20:20:18 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:20:34 kmc: Their picture was the first hit in a Google "search by image" query, that's how I found it. 20:20:52 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:20:55 (First time that was useful for anything.) 20:22:56 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:24:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:24:14 -!- AnotherT- has joined. 20:24:22 -!- AnotherT- has changed nick to AnotherTest. 20:29:30 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:32:05 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:35:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:36:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:40:11 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:40:17 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:44:36 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:44:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:44:55 -!- AnotherT- has joined. 20:45:04 -!- AnotherT- has changed nick to AnotherTest. 20:47:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:48:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:56:30 Has anyone here got access to the Tamiment Library at New York Uni? 21:05:54 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 21:06:18 -!- Zuu has quit (Excess Flood). 21:06:58 -!- Zuu has joined. 21:08:18 that's a pretty specific question 21:08:20 `run WeLcOmE Zuu | rainwords 21:08:27 ​ZuU: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 21:12:01 `run echo "WeLcOmE $* | rainwords" > bin/ReLcOmE 21:12:05 No output. 21:12:16 `chmod 755 bin/ReLcOmE 21:12:17 chmod: missing operand after `755 bin/ReLcOmE' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. 21:12:24 `run chmod 755 bin/ReLcOmE 21:12:28 No output. 21:13:17 `echo Hello World! 21:13:18 Hello World! 21:13:32 `cls 21:13:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cls: not found 21:13:44 hm? 21:13:55 `learn cls is a command to clear the screen. 21:14:01 I knew that. 21:14:11 `help wisdom 21:14:11 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:14:20 `? wisdom 21:14:22 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 21:14:43 like most interactive systems, this thing has like four separate help systems, the distinction of which is obscure 21:14:49 `cls wisdom 21:14:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cls: not found 21:14:55 `wisdom cls 21:14:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wisdom: not found 21:15:10 `How do you access wisdom? 21:15:12 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: How: not found 21:15:15 with ? 21:15:18 `? wisdom 21:15:18 `? cls 21:15:21 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 21:15:21 cls is a command to clear the screen. 21:15:31 `? ? 21:15:33 ​? is wisdom 21:15:44 `? ø 21:15:44 wow, that would actually have been helpful in this context. 21:15:46 ​ø is not going anywhere 21:15:47 `? `? 21:15:49 ​`? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:18:04 `? ørjan 21:18:06 ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 21:18:13 :D 21:19:13 :/ even though IRCNet allows #øæ’jµ it doesn't allow nick ørjan 21:19:16 Bike: the Uni Library has a one of a kind item in their collection I'm interested in. 21:19:33 what is it? 21:19:40 just wondering. i don't have access. 21:19:53 the holy grail 21:20:17 `? cls 21:20:19 cls is a command to clear the screen. 21:20:52 `? wisdom 21:20:54 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 21:21:09 `? WeLcOmE 21:21:11 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:21:36 `? ClS 21:21:38 cls is a command to clear the screen. 21:21:43 ah 21:21:52 `? Ø 21:21:54 ​ø is not going anywhere 21:22:02 `learn Batch is a language that uses the command cls. 21:22:07 I knew that. 21:22:14 `? Batch 21:22:16 Batch is a language that uses the command cls. 21:22:53 elliott: i just realized that indiana jones should probably have taken the grail solely for its archaelogical value, irrespective of the moral choice thing. 21:22:56 `learn ø is not going anywhere. 21:23:02 I knew that. 21:23:11 `? ø 21:23:12 ​ø is not going anywhere. 21:23:13 elliott: well, i mean, in the forties. archaelogists still basically stole crap back then i think 21:23:40 `learn Humphrey Bogart is a cousin to Lady Di. 21:23:45 I knew that. 21:23:54 `? Humphrey Bogart 21:23:55 Humphrey Bogart? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:24:09 `? Humphrey 21:24:11 Humphrey Bogart is a cousin to Lady Di. 21:24:20 `? aah 21:24:22 aah ambiguous acronym here 21:24:29 good 21:24:32 `? nah 21:24:34 nah no ambiguity here 21:24:38 very good 21:24:38 `? nimby 21:24:40 nimby? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:24:52 `? HackEgo 21:24:54 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:24:54 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 21:25:00 `? NIMBY : Not in my backyard 21:25:02 NIMBY : Not in my backyard? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:25:14 `learn NIMBY : Not in my backyard. 21:25:18 I knew that. 21:25:22 `NIMBY 21:25:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: NIMBY: not found 21:25:27 `? NIMBY 21:25:29 NIMBY : Not in my backyard. 21:25:29 `? NIMBY 21:25:31 NIMBY : Not in my backyard. 21:25:36 NIMBY : Not in my backyard? 21:25:49 CAVE People : Citizens Against Virtually Everything 21:26:14 BANANA: Build absolutely nothing anywhere near anybody 21:26:34 GTL: Go to (the) loo 21:26:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:26:47 `? rainwords 21:26:49 rainwords? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:27:09 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:27:09 | 21:27:09 º¯`\o 21:27:11 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:27:23 :D 21:27:23 Bike, elliot: They have some negatives from a Core War tournament 21:27:32 `? `? 21:27:34 ​`? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:27:38 oh, like, photos? 21:27:52 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? 21:27:54 ​¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:28:18 `learn ¯\(°_o)/¯ ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:28:19 | | | 21:28:19 º¯`\o º¯`\o º¯`\o 21:28:20 ​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 4: wisdom/: Is a directory \ I knew that. 21:28:28 JWinslow23, what the fuck are you playing at 21:28:31 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯? 21:28:32 | | 21:28:32 o/`¯º o/`¯º 21:28:33 ​ ¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:28:38 lol 21:28:40 Yes. I have an archive or Core War stuff. Am trying to find as much as possible before it disappears forever. 21:28:48 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 21:28:52 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +qq HackEgo!*@* myndzi!*@*. 21:28:54 I'm trying to make a quine in the shell thing, Phantom Hoover! 21:29:09 `cat quines 21:29:16 if you want to do spammy things with the bots, do them in /query 21:29:21 Oh. Right. 21:29:24 I'm good at this. 21:29:30 Sorry. 21:29:34 Also, I'm doing the same for other programming games, e.g. Darwin and RobotWar. 21:29:50 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -qqo HackEgo!*@* myndzi!*@* elliott. 21:29:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:30:21 -!- Zuu has joined. 21:30:37 impomatic: have you contacted the library? maybe they can just like, scan it for you. 21:30:41 `ReLcOmE Zuu 21:30:44 ​WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 21:31:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:31:21 ------ 21:31:27 Well, i did it! 21:31:39 Just ask what `? is. 21:31:42 `? `? 21:31:44 ​`? `? 21:32:20 `cat quines 21:32:22 cat: quines: Is a directory 21:32:25 er. 21:32:27 `ls quines 21:32:29 cat \ perl \ python \ q \ ruby 21:32:34 `ls quines/cat 21:32:36 quines/cat 21:32:39 `cat quines/cat 21:32:41 No output. 21:33:23 hi JWinslow23 21:34:14 Hey! 21:34:20 `run echo q; cat quines/cat 21:34:22 q 21:34:28 I was hoping it actually said "No output." 21:34:48 heh 21:35:40 `cat quines/cat 21:35:41 No output. 21:36:21 elliott: it'd still be a quine if it did, ofc 21:36:30 Bike: will be sending an email. Just need to write a decent description of the project. 21:36:50 nortti: thanks 21:36:50 my poopish connection is being poopish again :( 21:37:38 popeish connection 21:38:24 `echo `echo `echo 21:38:25 ​`echo `echo 21:38:34 What to do, what to do... 21:41:39 `? `? 21:41:42 ​`? `? 21:41:47 `learn `? `? `? 21:41:53 I knew that. 21:41:58 `? `? `? 21:41:59 ​`? `?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:42:11 `learn `? `? 21:42:15 I knew that. 21:42:18 `? `? 21:42:20 ​`? `? 21:42:28 YES! Got it to work. 21:42:55 JWinslow23: you are bored, aren't you? 21:43:16 `echo Yyp. 21:43:17 Yyp. 21:43:29 `echo YUP! Sorry about that. 21:43:30 YUP! Sorry about that. 21:44:02 Anyone have any suggestions for making Tic Tac Toe (my language) stack based? 21:44:12 I don't have a suggestion 21:44:32 0) Add a stack 21:44:52 Is it the cable, the monitor, or the motherboard that is causing the bad video? 21:44:54 Well yes, but what 8 commands can I use for stack manipulation? 21:44:55 ion: :D 21:45:11 JWinslow23: +-><[],. :p 21:45:31 push, pop, swap, dup... 21:45:32 That is my OLD command set! 21:45:42 myname's anyway. 21:45:57 Koen, you may be hitting on something! 21:46:00 just pop any page from http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Stack-based 21:46:15 and rip off what's there and make a copy and post it 21:46:20 1 - * DUP there are others too 21:46:21 wouuuuuuuh 21:46:38 I am! Just need something with 8 commands. I haven't found that yet, though. 21:46:49 i like how +-><[],. is a valid "head -c 1" program 21:47:06 nooodl: huh? 21:47:26 i wonder how many different programs you can get from anagrams of the 8 brainfuck commands 21:47:28 The +-><[] is irrelevant 21:47:47 They cancel each other out and [] is nothing when the value is already zero 21:48:00 impomatic: apparently i know somebody who has access. 21:48:39 ,.-[>+<] everythign relevant 21:50:08 JWinslow23: if > means "push 0" and < means "pop" then +-><[],. are the commands for a stack-based language 21:50:53 Koen__: that shouldn't be turing complete 21:51:06 oh wait 21:51:15 where would you pop to? 21:51:25 Don’t pop where you eat. 21:51:26 to Neverland 21:51:29 So... 21:51:35 ...what now? 21:52:10 <>[,+.-] enterprise brainfuck encryption 21:52:18 or maybe there are two stacks and > and < just means "pop from a to push onto b" and vice versa 21:52:22 which is basically brainfuck 21:52:39 and turing complete 21:52:54 assuming popping an empty stack gives a zero 21:53:03 (well, gives something, anyway) 21:53:43 nooodl: I interpreted your [,+.-] loop as just being a caesar cipher that adds 1 to every codepoint 21:53:56 that seems pretty much like enterprise brainfuck encryption to me 21:54:12 Can it be made some esolang that is Turing complete if transcendental numbers are allowed and not Turing complete if it isn't? 21:54:15 -!- Zuu__ has joined. 21:54:23 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:54:49 Post on the talk page. I will play Monopoly. 21:54:51 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:54:55 making such an esolang is your task now, zzo38 21:54:58 i was going to call it that, but i predicted someone would point out how it doesn't properly wrap Z to A 21:55:12 Bike: well if they're feeling generous, they're in box 26b, shoot 300030. ;-) 21:55:13 -!- Zuu__ has changed nick to Zuu. 21:55:35 shoot? 21:55:51 i thought about making a language that only has half-bits as data types 21:56:44 i should probably have a better understanding of how fractional bits work. 21:56:55 Just the way the reference negatives I think! 21:56:56 @google turkey bomb cat's eye 21:56:57 http://catseye.tc/node/TURKEY%20BOMB.html 21:56:57 Title: TURKEY BOMB | Cat's Eye Technologies 21:57:30 Bike: my basic idea was to say "half-bit b is the oposite of half-bit a" and so making a decidable full bit 21:57:37 is catseye working again, then? 21:57:39 well hooking you up with some random undergrad probably won't help you out 21:59:01 myname: is that like quantum entanglement? 21:59:07 like, if you have two particles A and B, and you know they have opposite spins 21:59:14 you have one bit of information about A and B, so half a bit about each, right 21:59:26 knowing what a number in 0-9 is exactly is ln 10 bits of information, right? 21:59:44 er, integer 21:59:51 Fiora: yeah, but if you don't declare b the opposite of a and you ask of the value of a you either get 1 or it doesn't terminate 22:00:03 semi-decidable 22:00:18 well, the problem is you're asking for a bit out of a half-bit there, no? 22:00:24 so of course it doesn't necessarily terminate, it isn't a total operation 22:00:30 Bike: log_2, surely? 22:00:41 wow why did i think ln meant log 2, yes, log 2 22:01:09 You could argue that the natural log should be the one that's most natural given the context. 22:01:18 i don't want to, though. 22:01:28 elliott: well, if the opposite of a semi-decidable language is semi-decisable, then the language itself is decidable and so should be the bit 22:01:47 isn't the natural log always the most natural 22:02:32 natural log is best log 22:03:10 so knowing the value of a nonnegative integer less than the square root of two should be half a bit of information. clearly. i've got this down. 22:03:45 Bike: 0 to 9 is more than 1 bit 22:04:18 it's log2 10 bits, i said. 22:04:22 fractional bits has me thinking of arithmetic coding -_- 22:07:34 that kind of makes sense intuitively, since knowing the value of the third bit of a nonnegative integer less than ten is useless if the other three bits are 111, or 110, or 101, or 100, or 011, or 010, but not if they're 001 or 000. 22:09:05 I have also thought of fraction bits of information, but I have also tried to think of programming with negative number of bits of information, too. 22:10:52 Bike: now figure out negative bits. 22:11:18 elliott: knowing the naked appearance of a united states supreme court justice. 22:12:20 or: the value of a nonnegative integer less than 1/x has -x bits. 22:12:21 so easy. 22:14:12 Bike: 1/2^x? 22:14:21 whatever. 22:14:41 the negative bits thing in TURKEY BOMB is easy enough to figure out 22:14:58 if you have a negative-bits value, then it requires more storage to represent in anything that contains everything except that value 22:15:09 oh. right, you just don't use a uniform distribution. 22:18:17 if x is discretely uniformly distributed between 0 and 9, the third bit is zero with 80% probability, and the second is zero with 40%, bla bla bla. 22:18:27 thank you for permitting me to go over this stupid basic stuff 22:18:46 60%* 22:19:42 Bike: that works for fractional amount of bits between 0 and 1 22:19:58 what? 22:21:21 Bike: using weighted probabilities to get values with less than a bit 22:21:40 I guess you'd have a negative number of bits in storage in something that was 120% likely to be a 0, and -20% likely to be a 1 22:22:07 how sensible 22:22:17 Fiora: negative probabilities. quick say something quantum 22:23:37 ais523: so we just need more people to give it 120% if we want to store negative bits? 22:23:38 well negative bits don't really make sense 22:23:50 er, *110% 22:23:54 if you had enough negative-sized files, you could just store a load of them to free up disk space 22:24:31 oh, good, and i forgot that the bits aren't independently distributed. i am terrible today. 22:26:21 i'm reasonably sure negative information is a used concept. maybe only conditional information, though. 22:27:02 only in quantum. great 22:27:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:28:07 "The negative conditional entropy is also known as the coherent information, and gives the additional number of bits above the classical limit that can be transmitted in a quantum dense coding protocol" and here we run into the famous "bike doesn't know know quantum" paradox of einstein's 22:29:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:30:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:32:27 dan simmons has this nice "use the word 'quantum' whenever you don't feel like explaining how it works" paradigm 22:34:34 i thinki have shannon's paper lying around somewhere. i could just read it. 22:40:11 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:44:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:46:21 onfail $ run $ head -10 "README" 22:46:39 (onfail (run (head -10 "README"))) 22:47:04 what language is this? technically haskell does that but -10 doesn't work sensibly for it. 22:47:39 (because the - is binary subtraction) 22:48:27 * oerjan thinks there should be a flag for people who have been idle for hours. 22:48:28 is it? I thought that was one of those horrible bits of odd syntax 22:48:31 but of course I don't remember which direction it was odd 22:48:47 @type -10 22:48:48 Num a => a 22:49:01 oerjan: There is in ifMUD (although you can disable this feature). In IRC you can check using WHOIS. 22:49:04 olsner: the odd part is that (- 10) is unary minus, and not a section using the binary one. 22:50:07 zzo38: by flag i mean something that shows up in the initial channel listing. 22:50:20 like @ or + 22:50:38 @like @ or + do 22:50:38 Maybe you meant: wiki time list elite dice cide 22:50:39 In the NAMES list? 22:51:25 zzo38: hm well i guess irssi probably sends a NAMES command to get it. 22:51:46 or something like that. 22:52:24 (It is also received when you join the channel, automatically) 22:52:49 (You can push NAMES to make it receive even afterward, though.) 22:53:46 ok 22:54:44 This is like the stupidest thing youtube has done so far... It decided to start all videos muted as of late afternoon today. 22:54:45 I have the idea of a new kind of trainer card for use in Pokemon card game: Pick one card from your trash, hand, or an energy attached to one of your cards in play, and put it with your side cards. You cannot use this if you already have six side cards. 22:55:03 oerjan: Any Lispy language that allows sweet-exprs 22:55:10 zzo38: Prize cards? 22:55:20 ais523: Yes. 22:56:37 sweet exprs. ok. 22:56:39 Vorpal: does that include the preceding ad? if so that will be a feature for me :D 22:56:49 What is "sweet-exprs"? 22:57:26 zzo38: http://readable.sourceforge.net/ 22:57:29 oerjan, Hm, no idea, I have been watching ad-free channels most of the afternoon 22:57:50 Can you explain to me so I don't have to open it right now? I will open to read later. 22:57:56 Vorpal: Hey, I got that too. 22:58:16 oerjan, you could try adblock btw, though of course if you do, that would prevent the independent creators from getting those 0.01 cents from your view or whatever 22:58:19 woo, more syntax arguments 22:58:22 fizzie, really? How to fix 22:58:47 Vorpal: No idea. (Took me a moment staring at alsamixer settings wondering what's wrong before noticing the youtube-level mute.) 22:58:49 zzo38: a reader-level pass that takes something like {a + b + c} and turns it to (+ a b c), for example 22:58:55 Vorpal: is there adblock for IE? 22:59:02 Sgeo: O, that's what you mean. 22:59:04 oerjan, no clue 22:59:23 It only takes a "friendlier" (by someone's standards) syntax and converts it in a straightforward way to s-exprs 22:59:33 Vorpal: "Thanks for your patience, all. We have been aware of this issue. It should be resolved soon. 22:59:35 No semantic interpretation is done 22:59:36 While this issue is live, please try clearing your browser's cache and cookies, --" 22:59:43 isn't that just a parser? 22:59:45 (Writes someone on the Google product forums.) 22:59:52 fizzie, ... seriously? Heh 23:00:05 Bike: I guess? 23:00:11 I would assume you would need to clear the flash cookie thingies 23:00:12 into sexps instead of asts, i guee. 23:01:48 At least the {} seems like a really good idea for math stuff. The indentation stuff freaks me out a bit 23:02:37 i don't really get why "readable lisp" is such a persistent idea. i mean, have you ever read a math paper, the notation is worse than any programming language. 23:02:43 but it's not important anyway. 23:03:04 I do not think all of mathematical notation is necessarily so bad. 23:03:15 hopefully i'll never have to hear somebody say SVO is natural for huans ever again. 23:03:53 Bike: even apl? 23:03:58 Also I don't think Lisp and Forth and so on have really bad syntax even though some people says it is. 23:04:11 oerjan: ? 23:04:32 Bike: is math worse than even apl? 23:05:14 The way I figure it, math needs its own typesetting programming language, and no programming language i know of does. 23:05:27 quite possible this is comparing apples and oranges, but... 23:05:43 There's an SFRI in 'final' status for the infix stuff 23:05:49 SRFI 23:10:08 The kind of card I described above, can have a lot of possible uses. (However, it is usually pretty worthless by themself.) 23:10:28 I see a potential confusion 23:10:46 {a get-new-op() b get-new-op() c} 23:10:59 (get-new-op) is only present once in what that expands to 23:11:22 ((get-new-op) a b c) 23:11:32 fizzie, did clearing the cache work? 23:12:23 @tell Taneb i suggest staying away from IngSoc 23:12:24 Consider it noted. 23:15:00 Sgeo: should be ((begin (get-new-op) (get-new-op)) a b c), clearly. 23:15:48 that's actually kind of interesting though, i suppose it means no associativity. 23:16:38 There isn't. There's also no operator mixing like {a + b - c} unless you define a macro... it expands to ($nfx$ a + b - c) 23:17:55 What is the best way to define an ordering in SQL so that you can insert a record in between two specified records (even if some records are deleted before that happens)? 23:18:09 i mean associativity in scheme in general. like, (op) can always return an associative operator, and yet you can have ((op) ((op) a b) c) != ((op) a ((op) b c)). 23:18:42 zzo38: well, if you don't specify any "ORDER BY" clause, sql results are "unordered" 23:19:03 zzo38: if you do have ORDER BY, just make a value at the position you want 23:19:12 i.e.: no, you can't 23:22:59 myname: I know that; I mean to define the collation of the field and the function to make it create these ordering values, and then you can use ORDER BY that field. 23:23:45 ah 23:23:49 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 23:24:48 print("Hello world!") 23:25:29 print("hakkkashdfhanuipioquqqqquiusakdfjii10") 23:26:31 `? JWinslow23 23:26:33 JWinslow23 is a Wisconsinite who doesn't give a BF. 23:27:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:29:48 So do you know how to do this, then? 23:30:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:32:23 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:32:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:33:14 Underload: 23:33:14 (:aSS):aSS 23:33:24 Prints its own source ocde. 23:33:36 CODE! Dang you autocorrect! 23:33:36 ^ul (:aSS):aSS 23:33:37 (:aSS):aSS 23:33:55 Unfortunate it mentions @$$ 23:34:47 ^ul (:aS(:^S^:)Sa:):^S^:(:aS(:^S^:)Sa:) 23:34:47 (:aS(:^S^:)Sa:):^S^:(:aS(:^S^:)Sa:) 23:35:07 ^ul (Hello, World!)S 23:35:07 Hello, World! 23:35:15 ^help 23:35:15 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 23:35:21 ^help lang 23:35:22 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 23:35:32 the available languages are bf and ul, it says. 23:35:38 Sorry. 23:35:42 Didn't read it. 23:35:48 Skimmed through. 23:35:59 haha, you skimmed one line huh 23:36:03 ^bf +[] 23:36:08 ...out of time! 23:36:15 Yes, perfect... 23:36:52 ^bf +[[.+]+] 23:36:52 .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ ... 23:37:03 Wow. 23:37:12 Yeah. Wow. 23:38:04 ^bf ,. 23:38:04 o 23:38:15 How do you input? 23:38:18 wait how does that even work 23:38:30 ^bf ,[.,]!Like this 23:38:30 Like this 23:38:53 ^bf ,.!Oh, I see. 23:38:53 O 23:39:20 ^bf ,[.,]~Oh, yeah. Anything over 1 requires loop. 23:39:35 ^bf ,[.,]!Oh, yeah. Anything over 1 requires loop. 23:39:35 Oh, yeah. Anything over 1 requires loop. 23:39:42 ^bf ,[.,] 23:39:42 Oh, yeah. Anything over 1 requires loop. 23:39:50 * Bike blinks. 23:40:00 ^bf ,[.,] 23:40:00 inks. 23:40:08 Nice. 23:40:11 ^bf ,[.,] 23:40:11 inks. 23:40:12 ^bf ,[.,] 23:40:12 inks. 23:40:23 ^bf ,[.,] 23:40:23 inks. 23:40:29 Inks? WTF? 23:40:44 it's reached a fixpoint 23:40:48 ^bf +[] 23:40:53 ...out of time! 23:41:09 inks, as in the end of my message ^Ablinks.^A 23:41:10 fungot, the fixpoint out of time 23:41:11 olsner: gmane even has a chance of comming back to it and then complain that it `does not work'. 23:42:08 fizzie: i think we found a new fungot bug 23:42:09 oerjan: but i'd say haskell introduces extra semantics, then. i'm surprised he doesn't have to be a bit less silly. i can feel it. 23:42:35 ^bf ->+>+++>>+>++>+>+++>>+>++>>>+>+>+>++>+>>>>+++>+>>++>+>+++>>++>++>>+>>+>++>++>+>>>>+++>+>>>>++>++>>>>+>>++>+>+++>>>++>>++++++>>+>>++>+>>>>+++>>+++++>>+>+++>>>++>>++>>+>>++>+>+++>>>++>>+++++++++++++>>+>>++>+>+++>+>+++>>>++>>++++>>+>>++>+>>>>+++>>+++++>>>>++>>>>+>+>++>>+++>+>>>>+++>+>>>>+++>+>>>>+++>>++>++>+>+++>+>++>++>>>>>>++>+>+++>>>>>+++>>>++>+>+++>+>+>++>>>>>>++>>>+>>>++>+>>>>+++>+>>>+>>++>+>++++++++++++++++++>>>>+>+>>>+>>+ 23:42:54 is it a bug? if fungot does it, surely it must be a feature 23:42:55 olsner: 19:05 is a funny gmt time to get to the code that implements the foo interface exports the bindings foo1, foo2 and foo3". when i reload it goes to things that exist outside the actor with unique names with the limited input/ output 23:43:30 JWinslow23: irc lines have a < 510 byte limit (which includes some stuff other than the message.) 23:43:45 Sorry. Wanted to see a quine. 23:43:50 do some compression! 23:43:51 I'll make one myself! 23:44:15 JWinslow23: fungot's ^str command is to get around that, although it's awkward to use. 23:44:15 oerjan: though it would be something wrong otherwise. that's how i roll. 23:46:05 ^bf [,>][<]>[.>][<]>[.>]!test 23:46:26 ok. 23:46:55 fungot, buddy, speak to me. 23:46:55 Bike: you can do computation with syntax-rules using cps or using other macros ( or non-hygienic low-level macros) wouldn't you have to on solaris 23:47:24 i fail to see the connection between Solaris and computation at macroexpansion time, fungot. 23:47:25 Bike: i was just busy planning lea's demise of laidback because of its cgi infrastructure. i'm more than halfway through this, i'll be willing to change, and so 23:47:50 oh, i see, no output for me. 23:47:52 ^bf ,[[.,]+] 23:47:52 output for me. ... 23:48:02 ^bf ,[,>][<]>[.>][<]>[.>]!test 23:48:10 no, no. 23:48:12 i'm so bad at this. 23:48:44 fungot: fungot 23:48:45 kmc: one more thing cl stores in symbols, right? but computing the hash value in the middle of interviewing for a job right now, 23:48:49 seems like it doesn't read past the NUL 23:49:03 fungot's definitely getting that job 23:49:03 Bike: makes it too easy to spot 23:49:09 even if forced to use , 23:49:24 oh hm 23:49:32 fungot: are you an ascomycete or a basidiomycete 23:49:32 kmc: but i already wrote to marc about it. 23:49:33 ^bf +[,[.,]+] 23:49:36 i just want something that reads to newline and then prints it twice. 23:49:39 u an ascomycete or a basidiomycete ...out of time! 23:49:48 good 23:49:52 wait so... input is from the last message? 23:49:55 ^bf ,. 23:49:55 . 23:49:57 yup 23:49:59 kmc: yep 23:50:00 fun 23:50:01 your welcome 23:50:12 ^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++[,[.,]+] 23:50:14 somebody exploit this to find fizzie's porn stash 23:50:18 ge? ...out of time! 23:50:53 kmc: or rather, from the last message to go beyond the space taken by the ^bf message 23:51:11 !bf_txtgen ACTION smacks kmc 23:51:16 ​181 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++>++>++++++++<<<<-]>>-----.++.<.>++++++.++++++.-.>++++.>+++.------.<<+++++++++++++++++++.++.++++++++.++++++++.>.>--.++.----------.<----------------------. [296] 23:51:30 ^bf +.>++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++>++>++++++++<<<<-]>>-----.++.<.>++++++.++++++.-.>++++.>+++.------.<<+++++++++++++++++++.++.++++++++.++++++++.>.>--.++.----------.<----------------------.>[-]+. 23:51:31 * fungot smacks kmc. 23:51:35 awesome 23:51:38 life is beautiful 23:51:52 beautiful and smacktacular 23:52:33 I'm still working on it! 23:53:56 why did it output a trailing period 23:53:57 ^bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]!test 23:53:57 test 23:54:09 kmc: !bf_txtgen apparently always appends a period. 23:54:12 fuckers 23:54:21 straight up. 23:54:31 icy hot stuntaz 23:54:37 ^bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]>[.>]!test 23:54:37 testtest 23:54:52 ^bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]>[.>]!,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]>[.>]! 23:54:53 ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]>[.>]!,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]>[.>]! 23:55:02 JWinslow23: (lol) 23:55:12 Bike: no, it appends a newline, which fungot turns into a period. 23:55:12 oerjan: or we could do it rici's way but then i have an idea for a programming language of .net". f includes extensions for working across languages, and accepts everything from c++ to pythong to perl to whatever else can tie into it. 23:55:20 oerjan: whichever! 23:55:58 who runs EgoBot anyway, i could yell at them slash ask about txtgen's algorithm. 23:56:14 No idea how, but still working! 23:56:20 !bf_txtgen QUIT seeya suckers 23:56:22 ​192 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>++++++.++++.>--.+++++++++++.>>++.<-----.<<++++++++++++++++..>>++++++.<+++++++++++++.>>.<------.++.<++.++++++++.<.>>---.+.>----------------------. [687] 23:56:43 ^bf +++++++++++++.---.>+++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>++++++.++++.>--.+++++++++++.>>++.<-----.<<++++++++++++++++..>>++++++.<+++++++++++++.>>.<------.++.<++.++++++++.<.>>---.+.>----------------------. 23:56:44 ..QUIT seeya suckers. 23:56:52 smooth 23:56:55 thx 23:57:26 Bike: it's not txtgen's fault, EgoBot just doesn't strip the final newline from input to commands, while fungot does. 23:57:26 oerjan: hello world!"? if so, sorry, haha. i was talking about 23:57:26 JWinslow23: i meant, i wrote a "quine". 23:57:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:57:51 Bike: also you can use `interp bf_txtgen on HackEgo 23:57:53 oerjan: i'm willing to shift my blame to egobot. 23:58:00 `interp bf_txtgen test 23:58:12 54 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>-.>---.<-.+. [454] 23:58:22 `run which interp 23:58:24 ​/hackenv/bin/interp 23:58:30 i think hat didn't append the newline 23:58:33 *that 23:58:34 `run file $(which interp) 23:58:36 ​/hackenv/bin/interp: POSIX shell script text executable 23:58:45 ^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>-.>---.<-.+. 23:58:45 test 23:58:53 oerjan to the rescue. 23:59:15 `run cat $(which interp) 23:59:17 ​#!/bin/sh \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG" 23:59:22 Bike: i've used `interp bf_txtgen to generate the long bf program for fungot's ^prefixes 23:59:23 oerjan: phew! i did, too) has " fnord format fnord". 23:59:32 indeed, fungot 23:59:33 Bike: what is the egobot?! sounds great though, must be one of the awful limitations of emacs is that it hinder the absorption of some b fnord and can lead to severe health problems. 23:59:42 i think i had to fix a bug in it to make it work 23:59:44 `file ibin/bf_txtgen 23:59:46 ibin/bf_txtgen: Bourne-Again shell script text executable 23:59:57 `cat ibin/bf_txtgen 2013-10-06: 00:00:01 ​#!/bin/bash \ . lib/interp \ cd interps/bf_txtgen \ \ get_arg \ java textgen -g 1000 -i "$ARG_FILE" | tail -n 2 | head -n 1 \ clean_arg 00:00:11 All I got so far is ++++++++++[>++++>++++>++++++>++++++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+++++<<<<<<<-]>+++..........>+++++>>++>+.<.<<<....>>>.<<<....>>>.<<<......>>>.<<<......>>>.<<<.........>>>.<<<..........>>>.<<<.....>>.......<.>>>>+++.<<.<<<...>>>>>>----.......... 00:00:21 Only prints a fraction of it. 00:00:21 the level of indirection here is astounding and bewildering. 00:00:40 JWinslow23: the hell 00:01:02 I have no idea how any quines were ever made in this language! 00:01:10 JWinslow23: you could use mine, prepended with a fixed point of txtgen (w/o the outputs) 00:01:20 well, some kind of txtgen, anyway, not this one. 00:01:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:01:51 There will come a time where it will be done. 00:02:01 When? I don't know. 00:02:06 JWinslow23: you could also 00:02:08 ^bf 00:02:11 bam. 00:02:26 Well, that is cheating! 00:02:33 imo not!! 00:02:34 Any null program is automatically a quine! 00:02:36 cheating is part of the game 00:02:45 JWinslow23: not in java 00:02:46 Oh, is that so? 00:02:57 i don't think the empty program is valid java. 00:03:16 that's not object oriented! 00:03:19 in haskell the empty program is i think not a quine. 00:03:25 > -- dunno if this even works. 00:03:26 not an expression: `-- dunno if this even works.' 00:03:34 not what i expected. 00:03:36 > 00:03:37 not an expression: `' 00:03:40 > 00:03:54 i shouldn't have asked. 00:03:57 >+++++>+++>+++>+++++>+++>+++>+++++>++++++>+>++>+++>++++>++++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+ >++++>+++++++>+>+++++>+>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>++>+>+>++++>++++++>++++>++++>+++ >+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>+>+>++>++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++++++>++++++>+>+>++++++ >++++++>+>+>+>+++++>++++++>+>+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++>++>+>+>++>++>+ >+>+>+>++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>++>+>+>+>+>++ >+>+>++++>+++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+++++>++ 00:04:05 Whaddaya think of that? 00:04:12 Credit to Daniel Cristofani. 00:04:14 `echo > 3 + 5 00:04:16 ​> 3 + 5 00:04:26 well, it doesn't output anything... 00:05:03 JWinslow23: what should that do? 00:05:12 Bike: the java textgen is not Gregor's program, he just wrote a wrapper around to run it using EgoBot's command api, which `interp invokes (at least in HackEgo) 00:05:27 okay? 00:05:41 wait, wait, so 00:05:50 the java program is also a wrapper? is that what i'm hearing here. 00:06:15 a bash script calling another script calling a java programm calling the real thing? 00:06:22 boy, that's indirection 00:06:34 ^bf >+++++>+++>+++>+++++>+++>+++>+++++>++++++>+>++>+++>++++>++++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+>++++>+++++++>+>+++++>+>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>++>+>+>++++>++++++>++++>++++>+++>+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>+>+>++>++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++++++>++++++>+>+>++++++>++++++>+>+>+>+++++>++++++>+>+++++>+++>+++>++++>++>+>+>++>+>+>++>++>+>+>++>++>+>+>+>+>++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+>+++++>++++++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>+++>++>+>+>+>+>++>+>+>++++>+++>+++>+++>+++++>+>+++++>+++ 00:06:44 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:06:47 myname: ITYM "abstraction" 00:06:48 JWinslow23: that doesn't output anything 00:06:52 myname: don't forget the UML part. pretty awesome. 00:07:07 JWinslow23: you realize you are hitting the irc line limit, right? 00:07:20 is that lost kingdoms, by any chance? 00:07:29 Huh. Thought it was a quine. 00:07:33 ah no 00:07:37 it does look a bit like a quine 00:07:41 but it's getting cut off 00:07:50 ais523, where would I find a copy of that Lost Kingdom thing? 00:07:57 Can't find it anywhere! 00:08:40 JWinslow23: it looks like the beginning "make a representation of the final part of the program on the tape" of a quine, but it's missing the actual final part that would print both it and the final part. 00:08:57 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 00:09:02 Don't know if I got it all. 00:09:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:09:26 i recall reading recently someone saying that lost kingdom was hard to find. 00:09:29 JWinslow23: seems to be at http://web.archive.org/web/20111031121638/http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html 00:09:58 "this Brainfuck edition is significantly larger at 2.08Mb" ha. 00:10:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:10:40 JWinslow23: yeah, it is 00:10:44 just checked 00:11:29 Bike: i don't know if the java program is a wrapper, that's not what i meant anyhow. 00:11:56 Bike: the empty file is not a valid Haskell program because it doesn't define 'main' 00:12:36 JWinslow23: i am somewhat doubtful that you can fit a bf quine into a single irc line, because it's so hard to setup data compactly in bf. 00:12:45 makes sense 00:13:02 clearly we need an algorithm which compresses Brainfuck using the whole of the Universal Character Set 00:13:07 Hmm... 00:13:09 there are probably five of those on the wiki already 00:13:15 heh heh. 00:13:42 the irc length limit is by character, right? bet you could fit a lot of bits in there... 00:13:43 and being clever means expanding the part of the program that is making the decoding 00:14:06 oerjan: when I was writing a 446-byte real mode demo I concluded that packers weren't worth it for this reason 00:14:06 Bike: now decode those bits without making the program even huger. 00:14:13 but I may have been insufficiently clever with my packers 00:14:27 real mode x86 code is reasonably compact, especially if it's written by hand to be compact 00:14:54 oh, i just meant, using a bf that use three bit groups for commands, instead of characters. 00:15:00 so a 24-bit character could have eight commands. 00:15:09 too bad unicode characters are only 20.1 bits 00:15:25 gasp 00:16:06 > logBase 2 . fromIntegral . ord $ maxBound 00:16:07 20.087461546321563 00:16:33 Bike: the problem with trying to cheat the irc length limit with bits is that bf ignores all but it's 8 ascii command values 00:16:39 *the other problem 00:16:52 yes i'm not talking about ^bf! 00:17:00 good, good 00:17:39 Just think about how much bandwidth is wasted globally from the unused 0.91 bits. 00:18:12 is 20.087 bits enough to encode all of tungusic, hieroglyphs, and the lingua ignota? important 00:20:33 I saw Finally Taking Over The World. It was a good game, especially since it was written by hand. 00:21:01 > var $ \s -> s ++ show s "> var $ \\s -> s ++ show s " 00:21:02 Couldn't match expected type `[a0] -> [a0]' 00:21:02 with actual type `... 00:21:07 oops 00:21:16 how about all the characters from the voynich manuscript 00:21:22 that would be great 00:21:32 > var $ (\s -> s ++ show s) "> var $ (\\s -> s ++ show s) " 00:21:33 > var $ (\s -> s ++ show s) "> var $ (\\s -> s ++ show s) " 00:21:39 `? `? 00:21:42 ​`? `? 00:21:48 U+2F739 VOYNICH SCRIPT SQUIGGLY THING THAT LOOKS KINDA LIKE AN EIGHT, I GUESS 00:21:49 HackEgo quine. 00:22:18 apparently it was transcribed to punched cards in 1940. 00:22:52 JWinslow23: um i'm pretty sure `? `? existed before you started. 00:23:11 and did something approximately like that 00:23:14 I know. It's just wierd. 00:23:20 Weird! DYAC! :-) 00:23:28 no, Wierd's a different language entirely 00:23:45 @wn DYAC 00:23:47 No match for "DYAC". 00:23:54 @google DYAC 00:23:55 http://www.damnyouautocorrect.com/ 00:23:55 Title: Damn You Auto Correct! » Funny iPhone Fails and Autocorrect Horror Stories 00:24:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Voynich_Alphabet 00:24:20 now I'm trying to think up a shell oneliner quine that prepends `run to itself 00:24:50 ais523: call it ? 00:25:38 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Voynich_manuscript_bathtub2_example_78r_cropped.jpg 00:26:11 "A dense continuous text interspersed with figures, mostly showing small naked women, some wearing crowns, bathing in pools or tubs connected by an elaborate network of pipes, some of them strongly reminiscent of body organs" 00:26:40 JWinslow23: actually `? `? did something different. `? quine did something similar. 00:26:43 `? quine 00:26:46 QUINE `? QUINE 00:27:07 `? humphrey 00:27:09 Humphrey Bogart is a cousin to Lady Di. 00:27:59 voynich creeps me the fuck out :( 00:28:00 Yeah, what DID `? quine do? 00:29:36 `revert 3875 00:29:40 Done. 00:30:17 `? quine 00:30:19 ​`? quine 00:30:23 it did this. 00:31:53 `learn NIMBY : Not in my backyard. 00:31:57 I knew that. 00:32:13 i reverted the quine mess and the broken humphrey. 00:32:42 sorry elliott 00:32:48 * kmc -> afk 00:33:08 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:33:40 kmc: it's ok!! 00:41:22 `cat bin/ReLcOmE 00:41:23 WeLcOmE | rainwords 00:41:34 * oerjan blinks 00:42:47 `run sed -i 's/ / "$*" /' bin/ReLcOmE 00:42:51 No output. 00:42:58 `cat bin/ReLcOmE 00:42:59 WeLcOmE "$*" | rainwords 00:43:16 `WeLcOmE bad_shell_programmers 00:43:18 oops 00:43:21 BaD_ShElL_PrOgRaMmErS: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 00:43:27 `ReLcOmE bad_shell_programmers 00:43:30 ​BaD_ShElL_PrOgRaMmErS: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 00:44:55 @tell nortti It might be an idea to actually test commands you add to HackEgo. 00:44:55 Consider it noted. 00:50:06 elliott, go to bed it's like 2 am 00:50:55 Hang on 00:51:03 oerjan, go to bed it's like 3 am 00:51:25 I think I am lashing out to cope with the fact that my sleep and food schedules have pretty much disappeared 00:51:28 elliott: btw myndzi already ignores HackEgo. 00:51:29 help 00:51:49 Taneb: you mean i shouldn't have made that bet? 00:52:06 `pastlog bet.*taneb.*schedule 00:52:34 HackEgo: chop chop 00:52:36 Taneb: don't you have work or studies to force-schedule you? 00:52:37 No output. 00:52:41 `pastlog bet.*taneb.*schedule 00:52:45 Koen__, not till Monday 00:52:55 `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y 00:52:55 2013-10-02.txt:00:38:10: shall we have a betting pool of how soon before Taneb's sleep schedule unravels 00:52:56 ​`run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y 00:53:04 there we go 00:53:07 that took a while 00:53:19 * oerjan swats ais523 for burying his `pastlog -----### 00:53:21 it's not aiming to be obfuscated or unclear in any way, it's aiming to be a by-the-book quine 00:53:23 oerjan, my sleep schedule had already unraveled about two days before that 00:53:30 Taneb: aha. 00:53:38 huh, jwinslow23 isn't even here any more, so I can't show em 00:53:48 ais523: aren't quines with eval cheating? 00:53:59 myname: only if they read their own source code 00:54:15 actually, I don't think eval can be used to cheat unless you combine it with some other cheating method anyway 00:54:17 Taneb: anyway if i were to go to bed now i would need some knockout drug. 00:54:33 I'm just using the variable definitions + eval as a method of defining a custom escaping mechanism 00:54:37 I'm going to try and regain my sleep schedule, brb 00:54:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:54:42 because I wanted to do it with only bash builtins 00:55:40 `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf 00:55:40 \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf 00:55:40 \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf 00:55:40 ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s 00:55:40 g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf 00:55:42 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 00:55:42 ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y 00:56:46 thank you irssi, the one time i _wanted_ your line joining to work... 00:57:11 `run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y 00:57:13 ​`run q=`printf \\\\x27`; b=`printf \\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5c\\\\x5cx`; g=`printf \\\\x60`; s=`printf \\\\x3b`; d=`printf \\\\x24`; y='${g}run q=${g}printf ${b}27$g$s b=${g}printf ${b}5c${b}5c${b}5c${b}5cx$g$s g=${g}printf ${b}60$g$s s=${g}printf ${b}3b$g$s d=${g}printf ${b}24$g$s y=$q$y$q$s eval echo ${d}y'; eval echo $y 00:57:40 oerjan: is that just my quine, or did you change it a bit? 00:58:01 that's the output of your quine. i just wanted to check it _hadn't_ changed :P 00:59:14 oerjan: right 00:59:22 it's quite hard to distinguish a quine from its output 00:59:38 actually, an earlier almost-working version had the eval and echo backwards /inside/ the quotes 00:59:43 and it took me a while to spot what was wrong 00:59:57 I'm almost positive that shorter bash quines exist, anyway 01:00:10 probably involving defining functions 01:00:19 `run ps 01:00:21 ​ PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 284 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 285 ? 00:00:00 cat 01:00:30 `run ps 01:00:31 ​ PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 285 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 286 ? 00:00:00 cat 01:00:39 I was hoping for completely different PIDs 01:00:41 but that works too 01:00:53 i think it's sh, not bash, which is why i was worried about your quine 01:01:26 that HackEgo /bin/sh thing has some awful bash inconsistencies. 01:01:35 `run ps | tail 01:01:37 ​ PID TTY TIME CMD \ 280 ? 00:00:00 init \ 282 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 284 ? 00:00:00 bash \ 285 ? 00:00:00 cat \ 287 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 288 ? 00:00:00 tail 01:01:44 oh there is a bash 01:01:58 maybe it's ok then 01:02:47 oerjan: it'd work fine in sh too 01:02:51 just printf isn't a builtin in sh 01:02:57 so it wouldn't be done entirely with builtins 01:10:32 right 01:41:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:47:10 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:47:39 -!- augur has joined. 01:51:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:52 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 01:51:56 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:52:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:34:47 -!- augur has joined. 02:49:23 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 03:18:52 ais523: we have a {{wayback}} template, by the way 03:19:05 elliott: I thought we did 03:19:09 but it has to link to an older version than the latest 03:19:13 wasn't sure if that was doable 03:19:13 ais523: it supports that :) 03:19:16 so I just copy-pasted the URL 03:19:30 and figured that someone would correct me if they wanted to (only I thought it'd be oerjan not you) 03:19:58 oerjan can do the actual edit. 03:33:06 I think there are too many people in computers just for the money. It's a damn shame that computers are “respected” now. ☯89MAR 03:52:42 Bike: is that form 1989? 03:52:45 *from 03:52:53 yeah 04:05:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:28:44 kids / lawn 04:30:32 it's nice to know that these people predate, like, me. 04:31:43 wouldn't you rather prefer not to be predated upon 04:31:44 I on the other hand was a whole year old in March '89 04:31:58 oerjan: good point 04:38:53 What is it called if you use a pastebin or tiny URL service to write it down on a small paper to recover it later (for your own use)? 04:39:05 Bikeism 04:45:22 zzo38: cloud computing 04:46:23 kmc: I mean this specific instance (and it doesn't contain anything private/secret) 05:22:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:45:39 fizzie: someone wants to know if you are going to NIPS 05:54:26 -!- asie has joined. 06:52:55 -!- augur_ has joined. 06:53:28 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:58:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:11:31 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 07:27:55 elliott: I'm not. I think some colleagues are. 07:36:52 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:42:32 @tell oerjan I can't believe someone hasn't noticed that bug earlier, if it has been there. Maybe my latest bugfix somehow broke that. 07:42:32 Consider it noted. 07:44:26 the brainfuckery? 07:45:37 Right. 07:46:26 Sadly, I no longer understand the fix. 07:47:18 heh 07:48:58 It's supposed to put a 0 after the isolated command options, though. 07:49:09 It's even done with STRN's "P", which should make that foolproof. 07:52:42 123456789012345678901234567890 07:52:45 ^bf ,[.,] 07:52:45 12345678901234567890 07:52:47 123456789012345678901234567890 07:52:48 ^bf ,[.,]! 07:52:53 Mhm. 07:53:27 Maybe it needs to do something to the input line pointer when there is no !. 07:55:04 Oh, I think I see what happens. 07:56:03 It's supposed to put a reference to the \0 at the end of the message when there is no !, but I think it has an off-by-one error, because it runs the same 1+ that bumps the number to one past the !. 07:56:11 Well, that's an easy fix. 07:57:24 ^reload 07:57:24 Reloaded. 07:57:29 123456789012345678901234567890 07:57:32 ^bf ,[.,] 07:57:37 There we: go. 07:59:22 Fix committed, for all you other fungot operators. 07:59:22 fizzie: almost as sluggish as my brain right now.) 07:59:44 fungot: Come now, it was just two more instructions and it's even executed only for a ^bf. 07:59:44 fizzie: the ' repl orientation' is standard in " sessions" in servlets. 07:59:53 fungot: I "see". 07:59:53 fizzie: doing what?-) 08:04:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:09:21 -!- asie_ has joined. 08:09:57 -!- asie_ has changed nick to asie. 08:19:00 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:20:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:13:07 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:02:15 ticket changed: * priority: minor => critical 10:02:31 I guess I favour priority inheritance as my method to solve priority inversions on my bug tracker 10:03:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:04:39 Oh wow I'm getting some players together and I'm gonna DM a game of Diana: Warrior Princess 10:16:53 wishlist => urgent 10:28:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:33:02 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 10:57:22 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 11:15:52 -!- asie has joined. 11:34:31 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:46:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:15:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:18:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:38:26 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 13:08:07 -!- asie has joined. 13:40:55 -!- yorick has joined. 13:46:07 Phantom_Hoover, one of my flatmates has taught me a bit more KSP 13:47:13 "firey bit points away from space" 13:53:46 Well this is interesting, vlc is only displaying the red channel when playing mp4... I'll test some other video players. 13:55:05 OKAY!? mplayer is displaying the red and the blue channel, but nothing else 13:56:55 Okay it is the xv backend that is broken, using opengl + software decoding works... 13:59:10 I suspect the GPU drivers, they are somewhat recently updated 14:15:13 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:38:23 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:40:55 If VLC was displaying red and mplayer blue and green, maybe you could've gotten a working video by translucently composing VLC and mplayer on top of each other. 14:42:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:42:39 -!- augur has joined. 14:47:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:55:16 fizzie, right, but mplayer was red and blue though 14:55:47 Anyway, switching the backend from xvideo to opengl worked 14:56:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:03:29 Also, a sunset: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130929-sunset.jpg 15:03:35 (We've been sorting the digital pile of photos accumulated over the summer, to show friends and relatives; hence this and the flower before.) 15:17:53 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 15:18:27 `? quine 15:18:34 ​`? quine 15:18:39 ...How? 15:19:12 By writing "`? quine" in wisdom/quine, presumably. 15:19:41 I only got it to say "quine `? quine". 15:20:12 `cat wisdom/quine 15:20:13 ​`? quine 15:20:17 easy. 15:20:19 You can get it to say things that don't being with the word itself by manipulating files in wisdom/ directly. 15:20:56 (It's just `learn that can't do it.) 15:21:05 `cat wisdom/reversal 15:21:06 cat: wisdom/reversal: No such file or directory 15:21:32 How to write it there? 15:22:03 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:22:12 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:22:13 `WeLcOmE 15:22:16 WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 15:22:57 `run echo lasrever > wisdom/reversal 15:23:00 it's just linux. 15:23:02 No output. 15:23:38 Don't know Linux. Have a PC. 15:24:08 Linux does run on various kinds of PCs. 15:24:20 Never used Linux. 15:24:21 and on a potato 15:24:22 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:27:11 -!- augur has joined. 15:30:52 -!- impomatic has left. 15:31:37 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:40:27 Only 32% of wisdom entries begin with the entry name. 17:02:03 fizzie: Wow, really? X-D 17:02:10 Makes `learn seem rather silly. 17:08:23 Disclaimer: statistic is an approximation generated with a cd wisdom; find . -type f | cut -c 3- | while read f; do if head -c ${#f} -- "$f" | grep -qF -- "$f"; then echo yes; else echo no; fi; done | sort | uniq -c except locally because it was timing out. 17:08:57 (It was correct for a couple of spot-checked entries, but could have issues.) 17:09:50 Seems it doesn't do lowercasing correctly. 17:10:25 63% are `learn-compatible, after correcting for that. 17:11:23 -!- ^v has joined. 17:14:00 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:22:38 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 17:24:18 `? bc 17:24:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:24:21 bc ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵ 17:25:02 `? bird 17:25:04 bird bird bird bird 17:25:12 `? ramen 17:25:13 ​拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。 17:25:27 `? right 17:25:29 Right is not two wrongs but three lefts. 17:26:12 `? shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj 17:26:14 shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj is the reason why the USA don't use the metric system. 17:27:04 `? ursala 17:27:06 ​~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=≪+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, 17:27:48 `? wercome 17:27:50 ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) 17:28:18 I wonder if "Ramen noodles are a type of sewing from the original trees." is a faithful translation or simply poorly translated by google 17:28:24 `? piet 17:28:26 ​ \ Piet is a really colorful programming language. 17:28:38 `? neit 17:28:41 neit? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:28:51 `? brainfuck 17:28:53 brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. 17:29:25 `? misspellings of croissant 17:29:27 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:29:36 Hah! 17:30:29 `? hthmonoids 17:30:31 hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids ... 17:31:02 `? log 17:31:04 I think you might mean !logs 17:31:09 `? logs 17:31:11 ​I think you might mean !logs 17:31:21 you know, the wisdom is mostly in the pdf 17:31:25 you don't need to take up the channe 17:31:26 l 17:31:37 (or you could use pms of course) 17:34:15 Click on the follwing link. 17:34:23 `? wercome 17:34:25 ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) 17:35:48 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:40:46 http://code.divshot.com/geo-bootstrap/# 17:41:59 Looks very authentic. 17:42:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:45:48 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:46:17 Did you add some `? file for other esolangs such as Underload and Checkout? Perhaps also such thing as FurryScript? 17:48:23 Also add P.D.Q Bach is INTERCAL of Baroque music. 17:50:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:52:06 -!- ^v has joined. 18:07:29 -!- carado has joined. 18:12:02 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:12:54 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:09 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:14:46 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:26:46 "There’s one more magic control key that switches your whole reality. This is ^W, which switches between the ships in a pier. Do you have multiple ships in your pier? Sure - you still have your old submarine." 18:26:50 It's all so very strange. 18:50:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:53:40 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:02:54 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:19:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:33:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:51:38 `? wecome 19:51:40 wecome? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:51:53 `? icame 19:51:55 icame? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:52:40 `learn wecome in pece. 19:52:45 I knew that. 19:53:32 why does he say that? 19:53:36 `? learn 19:53:37 learn? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:53:49 `? wecome in pece 19:53:51 wecome in pece? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:54:01 `? wecome 19:54:02 wecome in pece. 19:54:47 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:55:38 It's just a "whimsical" acknowledgement from `learn. 20:19:23 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:20:25 UVB-76, UVB-76. 75-59-75-59. 39-52-53-58. 5-5-2-5. Konstantin-1-9-0-9-0-8-9-8-Tatiana-Oksana-Anna-Elena-Pavel-Schuka. Konstantin 8-4. 9-7-5-5-9-Tatiana. Anna Larisa Uliyana-9-4-1-4-3-4-8 20:20:59 wat 20:21:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UVB-76 20:22:33 yeah 20:25:37 i like this numbers station because it transmits an annoying buzz 24/7 but apparently this is generated by having a microphone in the room and a buzzing box nearby 20:31:01 the buzzing is probably just to ensure the frequency is always available by annoying anyone else who tries to use it 20:32:21 but also it occurred to me that an air gap would be desirable if you're connecting cryptographic equipment to a radio transmitter 20:32:49 kmc: hey, I was just reading about that a few weeks ago! 20:33:45 if I were a plain russian scientist measuring stuff in the ionosphere with a buzzer I'd probably be thrilled about all the myth surrounding that thing 20:33:52 haha 20:34:06 you can ask some HAARP scientists about that 20:35:10 Wikipedia has a "see also" from UVB-76 to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war) which I'm not sure is justifed by any evidence, but is a creepy connection to draw anyway 20:35:12 Reading about Urbit reminded me of elliott somewhat. 20:35:49 fizzie: I read the original Urbit stuff years ago, so yeah. 20:36:03 it's not quite crazy enough though :( 20:36:23 It seemed quite crazy, absolutely speaking. 20:39:07 "At DEFCON 2 or higher, the Looking Glass pilot and co-pilot were both required to wear an eye patch, retrieved from their Emergency War Order (EWO) kit. In the event of a surprise blinding flash from a nuclear detonation, the eye patch would prevent blindness in the covered eye, thus enabling them to see in at least one eye and continue flying." 20:39:09 "After the prelude, there is usually an announcement of the number of number-groups in the message, the page to be used from the one-time pad, or other pertinent information. " 20:39:35 They actually say on those things "Use page 12 of the one-time pad"? Or is the OTP page thing just a guess? 20:40:05 so it's basically "in case of nuclear war, fire missiles using remaining eye" 20:40:20 Sgeo: I think it's a guess 20:40:29 I got the impression that the thing itself (urbit) is significantly less crazy than the descriptions of it 20:41:05 (In related news, I like how github's "number of commits" splines in a single-week graph go below 0 when there's something non-zero next to two consecutive zeros. 20:41:11 Sgeo: have you heard the Conet Project recordings: https://ia600500.us.archive.org/12/items/ird059/ 20:41:25 I'm sure the nice curvy lines are pretty, but the interpolation makes no sense. 20:42:04 I am suddenly less certain that I am not on drugs 20:44:47 `addquote I am suddenly less certain that I am not on drugs 20:44:51 1116) I am suddenly less certain that I am not on drugs 20:46:11 why are intelligent organisations so obsessed with making their secret transmissions sound creepy 20:46:32 kmc: I like the fact that someone has thought that stuff through and come up with procedures for it (re looking glass pilots) 20:48:06 (the low-techness of the eye patch is a nice bonus, but apparently they replaced them with fancy goggles later) 20:48:51 i blame the fancy goggle industrial complex 20:48:55 http://uvb-76.net/p/triangulation.html this map looks pretty cool. 20:49:57 wow apparently there is a Freenode channel about UVB-76 and numbers stations generally 20:50:00 #priyom 20:51:13 Heh, the Buzzer is nicely audible over that WebSDR thing. 20:53:35 Name : UVB-76 20:53:35 Genre : Ambient, Russian, Experimental 20:59:16 (A client-side morse decoder is one thing they should maybe add to WebSDR for casual users.) 20:59:48 don't you wish the world was like the mercator projection 20:59:55 with massive icy wastes to the north and south 21:05:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:05:35 in DEFCON the missiles look like they're curving up into the atmosphere but they actually curve north on the rectangular map 21:05:42 so it's better to put your antimissile stations in the north 21:06:07 but really if you're not playing US vs USSR on a polar map then wtf are you doing 21:27:18 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:35:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:49:24 @messages-loud 21:49:24 fizzie said 14h 6m 51s ago: I can't believe someone hasn't noticed that bug earlier, if it has been there. Maybe my latest bugfix somehow broke that. 21:51:31 I went and fixed that thing. 21:51:45 ^echo testing 21:51:45 testing testing 21:51:46 It didn't seem to be related to the earlier fix. 21:52:05 ic 21:52:29 Possibly people had just not tried input without ! all that much. 21:53:19 well good job 21:53:30 what was the bug? 21:54:53 elliott: ^bf without ! would use parts of previous messages as input 21:59:08 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:01:52 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:02:04 Specifically, the part that was supposed to set the bf input data index to point at the 0 at the end of the ^bf command instead set it to one past that zero. (Where there was the tail end of whatever previous message longer than the command was.) 22:13:01 @tell Oh wow I'm getting some players together and I'm gonna DM a game of Diana: Warrior Princess <-- ooh 22:13:01 Consider it noted. 22:13:40 i've never played that, but it's one of the most hilarious tabletop RPG concepts i've heard of 22:15:47 okay, my When interpreter can succesfuly execute a previously parsed When program 22:16:02 good, good 22:16:04 learning to use ocamllex and ocamlyacc is a task for another day 22:18:07 oerjan: is your Bag language significantly different than the simple "fractran with token multisets substituted for prime decompositions" it originally was? 22:18:27 subsidiary question, is any version of Bag implemented? 22:21:05 um no. 22:21:15 to the second question, that is. 22:21:51 whenever i think about implementing it, i get hung up in how to split up actual numbers given. 22:23:14 i have this clever algorithm which doesn't need to actually prime factor, but i'm not sure if it's efficient if there are a lot of numbers. 22:23:30 and then i procrastinate before even getting to implement that part. 22:23:57 numbers? prime factors? so there not just token lists? 22:24:09 Koen_: you can use either tokens or numbers freely. 22:24:18 s/there/they're :( 22:24:23 oh, ok 22:24:50 can you use both simultaneously? 22:25:01 as in multiplying numbers by token lists 22:25:28 and it's ideally supposed to treat numbers effectively as if they were factored, but then i thought "what is someone puts in an RSA public key to be annoying" and then i thought up my unimplemented algorithm. 22:25:35 yes. 22:26:55 oh, you don't need to actually prime factor every number, you just need to check if n is a multiple of the denominator, right? 22:27:18 (because you cannot expect to able to factor an RSA public key in general) 22:27:45 what if I'm very patient 22:28:01 Koen_: well it's supposed to still be efficient if a huge prime gets raised to a large power 22:28:40 as in, it should handle things that are too large as ordinary bignums 22:28:45 I assume you don't need to actually compute the result of the multiplication 22:29:08 so numbers are hybrids, half-factored, half-notfactored 22:29:20 anyway my algorith is a factorization algorithm, it's just not a _prime_ factorization algorithm. 22:29:27 *algorithm 22:29:44 it factorizes numbers "enough" 22:29:49 * Koen_ has no idea what the subtle difference is 22:30:01 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 22:30:40 Hi, I want to code a text adventure of my own in BF. Anyone know how to do that (preferably by hand)? 22:30:45 you can't factor *more* than down to prime decomposition, and factoring less is just "going half through with prime factoring" 22:31:05 JWinslow23: it's like you're asking us what tools to use and simultaneously saying you don't want to use any tools 22:31:23 Koen_: basically say you have this huge RSA public key that is pq for a large number. if no part of the program has a different number of p's and q's then you don't _need_ to factor those separately. 22:31:27 Sorry, but Taking Over The World was written by hand! 22:31:33 Know what? 22:31:41 Give me tools if you can find any, OK? 22:31:47 because everything is of the form (pq)^n * things not containing p or q 22:31:48 Please. 22:32:14 right 22:32:38 JWinslow23: have you ever written a text adventure? 22:32:49 No, that's why I want to know how. 22:33:08 but if you _do_ have both pq and pq^2 say, in the program, then my algorithm can split them up. 22:33:44 don't you think it would be more interesting to write a *regular* text adventure first, then only move on to writing a text adventure using brainfuck? 22:34:05 Okay, I will. Thanks! 22:34:20 you're welcome, I guess 22:34:27 (first it notices that gcd(pq,pq^2) = pq, and then that pq^2 / pq = q, so now you have q.) 22:34:55 hmmmm 'kay 22:35:04 and then everything gets hideously complicated if there are lots of factors to split out. 22:36:01 So, I will tell you when the text adventure is done. Until then, I'm out! 22:36:04 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:36:34 I think I'm gonna write a Bag interpreter that only accept token multisets 22:36:36 o_o 22:36:46 Koen_: ok 22:37:07 i guess i cannot stop you. unless i nuke the eiffel tower. 22:37:37 well, if you're warning me first, that kinda ruins the point 22:37:47 alternatively you could just handle small numbers. 22:37:57 yes, that's another possibility 22:40:41 What text adventure game do you want to write? 22:40:49 zzo38: I'm afraid he's left 22:41:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:49:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:50:41 'He quotes Zheleznyakov on the purpose of Perimeter being "to cool down all these hotheads and extremists. No matter what was going to happen, there still would be revenge."' 22:52:19 I don't know what's scarier, the fact that these people thought a robot programmed to automatically kill everyone on the planet would have a calming effect, or the possibility that they were right 22:53:50 only semi-automatic, afaik? 22:53:53 Could you use two channels on 8253 PIT with the output of one connected to the gate of another, to make more kind of square waves and other stuff output? 22:54:05 isn't that what cold war was all about? 22:55:07 all that is needed to thwart that scheme is a genuine omnicidal maniac. 22:55:09 it also says something about the human psyche that we place a high value on revenge even if it comes after we and everyone we know are dead 22:55:23 zzo38: that's a cool idea 22:55:28 you could make a musical instrument out of a PIT 22:56:49 it'd be fun to list the top 250 channels on Freenode and then cluster them based on shared membership 22:56:52 i wonder if someone has done this 23:00:22 kmc, er, isn't the point more the prospect of revenge? 23:02:10 Is Perimeter that huge doomsday ship that was proposed but rejected? 23:02:13 Or is that something else? 23:02:20 what 23:02:25 you're thinking of project pluto? 23:02:56 well the idea here is that human commanders who detect a (possibly false) enemy launch will be less likely to retaliate immediately if they know that Perimeter / Dead Hand will avenge them after their deaths 23:03:26 Phantom_Hoover: no, it was a Russian thing 23:03:43 so he's arguing that it would have a calming effect on their own commanders, in addition to detering the enemy 23:03:46 which is interesting 23:04:26 makes sense 23:05:30 looking for Sgeo's thing, found this http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/09/soviet-doomsday/ 23:05:53 i like how it makes absolutely no effort to distinguish between doctor strangelove's doomsday device and the real one 23:10:50 How do I make at execute a command as root? 23:12:04 you could run 'at' as root 23:12:14 or your command could be 'sudo whatever' assuming you have nopasswd sudo 23:14:17 (I'm only doing this to turn my computer into a fancy alarm clock then turn itself off so I don't get distracted) 23:29:16 hm is it tomorrow (well, today) they start revealing nobel prizes 23:32:18 cool so I'll get more opportunities to complain about how the "Nobel Prize" in Economics is bullshit 23:32:23 yep 23:32:29 i love doing that 23:32:55 that's only next monday though 23:33:21 and they haven't decided when to announce literature yet... 23:33:34 maybe they _really_ couldn't agree this year. 23:36:38 kmc, do tell us now 23:37:00 good year for literature? 23:37:04 or bad? 23:37:45 oh, because it's actually Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 23:38:16 yeah Nobel had nothing to do with it, the Swedish central bank just decided to start awarding a prize "in memory of Nobel" around the same time as the real Nobel prizes 23:38:35 fuckin swedes amirite 23:38:40 like 70 years after the real prizes were set up 23:38:54 which is a little sleazy if you ask me 23:39:19 maybe I will also award some prizes in memory of Alfred Nobel 23:39:51 How are the prizes funded? I know it was originally from Nobel's money, but... that money isn't lasting forever, is it? 23:40:07 the idea of endowments is that they last forever (you only spend the interest) 23:40:12 but i dunno 23:40:33 apparently the foundation had $560 million as of 2007 23:41:20 and they give out five * $1.2 million each year? 23:41:40 so they only need like a 1% return, which should be easy 23:42:08 although the expenses of managing that money and awarding the prizes could easily surpass the prize money itself 23:42:52 not to mention the gold medals themselves... 23:43:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:43:25 just noticed PH's username is phantomho 23:49:54 `wercome 23:49:57 ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) 23:51:48 really 23:51:56 `welcome 23:51:58 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:52:30 HackEgo should have a command to translate stuff using Bing or whoever still has an API 23:54:03 does _anyone_ see the first message as a link leading to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page%E3%80%82%EF%BC%88%E4%BB%96%E3%81%AE%E3%82%A8%E3%82%BD%E3%83%86%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%80%81irc.dal.net%E3%81%AE 23:54:15 *as having 23:54:30 I see your line as a highlight (hth) 23:54:53 i am slightly guessing jwinslow23 did. since he made it. 23:54:59 we should also have EUC-JP and Shift-JIS versions 23:55:39 kmc: you're welcome to repair bin/translatefromto 23:56:05 cat: /tmp/x.out: No such file or directory 23:56:10 whoops 23:56:16 wat 23:56:28 that was supposed to be 23:56:30 ƥåץߥ󥰸ΥǥȥǥץȤιݤʾؤ褦ܤ򸫤ơhttp://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page¾Υƥåirc.dal.net#esotericء 23:56:53 I don't have a better way than /exec -out to send non-UTF8 to the channel 23:57:04 that's a lot of stroken out Ys 23:57:17 ܕMI9ED|ys01(!l+ǟvGy☱C{ 23:57:32 AAAAAAAAAAAA 23:58:13 00:57:04 -interactive: Creates a query-like window item. Text written to it is 23:58:16 00:57:04 sent to executed process, like /EXEC -in. 23:58:22 you can literally use irssi to talk to a REPL 23:58:31 fancy 23:59:05 alas, i already have a suitable tmux window now 23:59:07 we already knew how to do that in #irp 2013-10-07: 00:00:42 maybe there should be a mode to send the text only if it quits with exit code 0 00:01:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:13:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:26:17 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:52 oerjan: I guess your IRC client / terminal / whatever doesn't know about non-ASCII spaces 00:32:22 er actually there isn't a space there 00:33:06 kmc: hm? it's not my client. my client doesn't make links anyhow. 00:33:51 so you were asking if anyone saw something that you don't see? 00:34:04 but jwinslow23 made a page on esolang that looks like it came from that message. 00:34:33 so yeah. 00:35:00 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:38:29 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 00:45:05 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: work). 00:51:41 I intend to make it so that there is four kind of line prefixes (there is also lines with no prefix), meaning: assembly language, SQL, text, preformatted text. What could be the prefix characters to indicate these things? 00:56:53 a, s, t, f? 00:57:48 what the hell are you doing 00:57:50 I shouldn't use letters; I should use a punctuation, other than those used by the basic format that can occur at the start of the line. 00:58:23 zzo38: ) } ] and > 00:58:28 !?.: 00:58:35 * oerjan cackles evilly 00:58:41 +-*/ 00:59:19 you guys don't even try 00:59:37 So far I think your idea of !?.: is best 01:00:03 _-=+ 01:01:09 -!- hypha has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:02:54 I was gonna go for _ = ≡ but I didn't have a quadruple-bar symbol on my keyboard 01:03:12 I don't have either; I have to use only ASCII symbols. 01:03:24 (and furthermore, only printable ASCII symbols) 01:50:34 man, I come across random IRC snippets 01:50:37 and omg I find kmc 01:50:41 and guess what he's talking about! 01:50:42 >_> 01:51:02 rust? 01:51:10 I cannot guess it very well. 01:51:11 you got the vowel right 01:51:12 Do you know? 01:52:03 -!- tswett has joined. 01:54:27 Does space count as printable? 01:55:13 I consider space a printable character. 01:55:28 It doesn't do anything besides advancing the cursor and painting stuff. 01:58:12 Yes space does count as printable (as far as I am concerned), but it doesn't count here because the space would be ignored even before the prefix symbol; this way you can make it in a indented block rather than having to move it to the first column to make it messy. 01:58:49 Do you have the stats for the big leech so that we can downgrade it to make the stats for the small one too? 02:00:06 zzo38: maybe this? http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Black_Leech_(3.5e_Creature) 02:01:08 I will look later, but is it suitable to downgrade to make the small one? 02:01:17 (Right now I have another program open instead) 02:01:30 it actually says "small animal" 02:02:02 "A black leech, often called blood devil, is an about 3 feet long, 1 feet thick creature with a completely, inky black skin. It weighs about 40 pounds and is parasitic." 02:02:11 I suppose if the ordinary rules are used to change it to "tiny animal" then it might work 02:03:23 anyway it was my first google hit for '"leech" d&d' (i put leech in quotes because google seemed to want it to be lich instead), there may be other hits. 02:04:12 So, lemme complain about... the universe or something. 02:05:00 well, i have a hunch the others on the first page are spells and powers. 02:05:03 -!- Bike has joined. 02:05:19 So, there's Haskell. It's described as "the simply typed lambda calculus with tons and tons of syntactic sugar on top". It's pretty much one of the fundamental programming languages of the universe. 02:05:37 legend has it that the sun was developed in haskell 02:05:43 Probably. 02:05:57 oerjan: Maybe. However the purpose of such a thing I ask is for use as a familiar and other things. 02:06:58 No,no,no 02:07:00 zzo38: yes, the link i gave was for a creature. 02:07:05 Brainfuck is the most fundamental language 02:07:07 So I once pondered, what would Haskell be like if values couldn't be duplicated or discarded? A lot of stuff would become easier; instead of having monadic I/O, you could have functions taking a World and returning a World. 02:07:11 Everything else is a dialect of Brainfuck 02:07:16 oerjan: Yes I know that you said "small animal" which is implying that. 02:07:17 Well, except for INTERCAL 02:07:25 tswett: http://xkcd.com/224/ 02:07:34 Are we talking about animals, I bet animals are way more interesting than Platonism. 02:07:41 tswett: uniqueness types? 02:07:41 Turns out that, like Haskell is in some sense equivalent to intuitionistic logic, there's another sort of logic, linear logic, that would be equivalent to Haskell-without-duplicating-or-discarding. 02:08:12 (But I do like to make up some spell/power too, such as, "Kjugobe's Timer", and magic items such as the magic pair balls which allow you to know the distance between them and teleport the other one to you while you are holding one.) 02:08:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:08:56 FreeFull: something like that. In this language, uniqueness would be enforced *everywhere*; you'd need special markers or whatever in order to do something that doesn't obey it. 02:09:02 tswett: btw haskell isn't simply typed, it's polymorphic with its own heap of extensions to hindley-milner types. 02:09:26 oerjan: how far does Haskell 98 extend HM types? 02:09:58 So it turns out some people have created programming languages based on linear logic. I've looked at them, and I don't really like any of them. So I decided to try to create a programming language that's pretty much Haskell, but linear. 02:10:18 How is it going? 02:10:19 tswett: also look at Clean, which is the very-similar-to-an-older-brother-of-haskell-using-unique-types-instead-of-IO-monads-although-you-_can_-define-monads-if-you-want language. 02:10:24 I will write down the creature stats you gave me so that I can remember it for later in order to downgrade it. 02:10:53 I'm calling it Hylisk. As far as I can think, I have it totally worked out, except for a few unimportant details, like what members its None class would have. 02:11:58 So, Hylisk and Haskell are almost completely identical, right? Hylisk is also purely functional, with lambdas and applying and algebraic data types and pattern matching and all that jazz. 02:12:25 And yet, I've put hours and hours of thought into the idea of compiling Hylisk into Haskell, and I just can't find a way to do it that makes any sense. 02:12:54 tswett: well the first haskell extension was type classes. then the classes were allowed to be type constructors instead of just types, which allowed e.g. Monad. since then it has got all kinds of weird stuff, type families, multiparameter type classes, rank n types, existential types, and lately kind polymorphism and automatic raising of types to kinds... 02:13:18 *the class members were 02:13:19 oerjan: A lot of these Haskell extension are useful. 02:13:26 Since when does Haskell 98 have type families? 02:13:45 tswett: Have you been working on an implementation? 02:13:57 But yeah, type constructors and classes are definitely extensions, I think. 02:14:10 tswett: Do you have the other details too? 02:14:30 tswett: haskell 98 isn't the latest standard. almost everything beyong class type constructors isn't included in that. not that haskell 2010 added any type extensions that i recall. 02:14:32 FreeFull: not really; I want to write a compiler, not an interpreter, but I have no idea how a compiler would work. 02:14:39 *beyond 02:14:52 oerjan: *nod* I'm just looking to copy Haskell 98 at the moment. 02:14:56 tswett: Would System F be useful? 02:15:02 zzo38: the other details about what? The type system, or the entire language? 02:15:18 Maybe you could compile down to the same dialect of System F that Haskell uses, and then use GHC's infrastructure from there on 02:15:27 tswett: Both. 02:15:29 tswett: with all the changes they've done in the basic libraries i'm not even sure ghc _supports_ haskell 98 any more. 02:15:49 FreeFull: the thing is, Hylisk types don't translate cleanly into Haskell types, at least not in any way I've discovered. 02:16:03 the removal of superclasses on Num would be the biggest inconsistency, i think. 02:16:05 oerjan: you have to replace (Num a) constraints with (Num a, Show a, Eq a), everything else is "fine" if you use the haskell98 base library afaik 02:16:08 and -XHaskell98 02:16:18 of course Applicative => Monad is happening and will ruin everything. 02:16:22 by unruining everything 02:16:28 -!- Guest35587 has joined. 02:16:30 The best idea I've come up with so far is to have a Haskell type called HyliskValue and make everything be that. 02:16:57 That sounds like throwing types away 02:16:59 -!- Guest35587 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:16:59 copumpkin: what did i do now 02:17:02 FreeFull: right. 02:17:09 tswett: look at https://github.com/isomorphism/Delineate. 02:17:28 zzo38: well, I guess there are some other details I've thought of that I haven't decided what to do about. And, undoubtedly, some other details I've completely forgotten about. 02:18:29 tswett: I think rather than trying to map types to types, you just create your own type system 02:18:37 Which you probably are already doing 02:19:01 Although if you say it's still typed lambda calculus, you should be able to compile down to that 02:19:28 elliott: I've looked at that, and I feel like I ultimately dismissed it for some reason. Now I don't remember why I dismissed it. Maybe I didn't have a good reason. 02:21:04 FreeFull: well, here's one rough spot that Hylisk has. In Hylisk, there's a type for functions that don't return: a function of type "a -> Done" takes "a", and then doesn't return. Now, there's a function cancel :: ((a -> Done) -> Done) -> a. 02:21:31 elliott: it just makes a lie of the promise the haskell 98 report made that programs made according to it should expect to be supported long after new standards had arrived. 02:21:44 "cancel" takes a function f. It then creates a new function g, and passes g into f. Then it waits for f to call g, and grabs the argument to g and returns it. 02:22:19 tswett: what's the point of a function that doesn't return, except side-effects? but I thought Hylisk was purely functional and that would mean there are no side-effects... 02:23:50 Koen_: well, there are ways that data can get out of a function besides being returned. 02:24:15 show me the way 02:25:02 All right. You might really hate this syntax. If so, I apologize. 02:25:11 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:25:18 Example: ((\y -> y 3) \x) -> x 02:25:37 You know what, that example can be simplified. 02:25:41 Example: (\x 3) -> x 02:25:55 In Hylisk, \x is a function that binds x to its argument, and doesn't return. 02:26:04 So (\x 3) -> x evaluates to 3. 02:26:28 Do they have any relations to linear logic? 02:26:37 Interesting 02:26:44 so that's "assign 3 to x"? 02:26:49 zzo38: the stuff that I just described? Yeah, absolutely; it's completely inspired by linear logic. 02:26:53 that sounds *a lot* like a side-effect 02:26:58 Koen_: it does, yeah. 02:27:07 Is there a zero, one, top, and bottom types? What do they do, if so? 02:27:39 Sounds really impure, but isn't. There's no way to do destructive modifications. Evaluating the same expression twice always gives you the same answer. 02:28:17 destructive as in irreversible? 02:28:54 i see google front page has changed its ui again. now i need one more click to get to translate. 02:29:09 it was already slightly annoying that i needed two. 02:29:16 zzo38: yup. Zero is an uninhabited type. One is the unit type, whose values can be freely created and destroyed. Top is a "garbage" type; you can create values of it, but values of that type can't be destroyed or otherwise disposed of. Done is the "no return" type; if a function returns Done, that's equivalent to not returning. 02:30:14 i assume this is poisonous infection from that mobile app stuff. 02:31:20 Koen_: you know, I guess I don't really have a good idea of what "destructive modification" actually means. 02:31:36 I mean, "const True" is an irreversible function in Haskell, isn't it? But it's not impure. 02:32:39 I'm not sure what -> means in Hylisk, but I'm gonna assume "(\x 3) -> x" is literally what I would write in ocaml as "let x = 3 in x". in that case the only reason why this "assignment" isn't a side-effect is because it's not an assignment, but rather just a replacement in the right-hand expression 02:33:12 (and the right-hand expression wouldn't make sense without the let in, since x would be free) 02:33:29 Right. And that's pretty much what -> does. 02:33:45 Evaluate the left hand side until it's of the form "\x y", and then replace x with y on the right hand side. 02:34:19 yeah... but in that case "\x 3" doesn't make sense without the "->" ? 02:34:22 Now, here's cancel: cancel f = (f \x) -> x 02:34:23 Koen_: correct. 02:34:37 so it's not really a function 02:35:16 Backslash-variables, arrows, and the corresponding bare variables are in a one-to-one-to-one correspondence. Each appearance of one must correspond to exactly one appearance of each of the other two. 02:35:54 Koen_: well, it's certainly treated as a function. It has a type (in this case, something like Integer -> Done), it can be passed into functions that take functions, and so on. 02:35:54 Which excludes something like \x -> x*x 02:36:05 FreeFull: right, because x appears too many times on the right hand side. 02:36:30 my point is I'm under the impression that this "Done" is similar to ocaml's "unit"... but ocaml has a unit type because it's is *not* purely functional 02:36:52 tswett: How would you write something like that, assuming there is no other way to square? 02:37:34 FreeFull: well, here's how you're going to write it if I don't create any syntactic sugar for it: \x -> uncurry (*) (duplicate x) 02:37:39 I'm going to create syntactic sugar for it. 02:38:10 duplicate is a primitve? 02:38:12 "\x -> x*x" is probably going to be syntactic sugar for "\x -> uncurry (*) (duplicate x)". "duplicate" is a member of a class, called Duplicable or something. 02:38:13 primitive* 02:38:21 Ah 02:38:40 The instance of duplicate for Int is primitive, but other data types might have non-primitive implementations. 02:38:42 tswett: Do you think something like this could work as a stack-based/concatenative language? 02:39:20 Koen_: it took me a really, really long time to figure out what Done means, and I still don't have too great a grip on it. 02:39:31 oh 02:40:15 then it's probably not like ocaml's unit, because afaik "unit" just stands for "dummy value you return when you've got nothing to return" 02:40:38 Koen_: right. Hylisk has such a type; it's tentatively called Unit. 02:41:03 ooooookay. so there are side-effect after-all? 02:41:43 Haskell has () too. nothing to do with side-effects 02:42:17 FreeFull: well, I did come up with an idea for a modified do-block. "sdo {a; b; c}" is syntactic sugar for "c . b . a". And if you write "x <- a", then I think that corresponds to matching a with a pair, binding x to one half of it, and passing the rest of it along. 02:42:39 elliott: yeah, but my Weird Extended Lambda Syntax looks a lot like side-effects. 02:42:40 I apologize for exhibiting my ignorance like that :p but I really can't think of a use for the unit type, other than as return type for side-effect-only functions 02:43:01 same reason the identity function is useful 02:43:14 Do you expect downgrading the size to make it suitable for familiar and similar things? 02:43:17 e.g., instantiating parameterised types 02:43:19 "making @pl do stupid things" 02:44:20 I'll try to give that some thought, and in the meantime I'll give myself some sleep. thank you for your explanations and your patience! 02:44:44 tswett: I want to try it out as soon as you have a working implementation 02:45:54 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:46:07 I guess here's how I'd say it. "\x 3 -> x" doesn't have side effects. The funky thing about \x is that instead of returning a value into the surrounding expression, it returns a value into the letter x on the other side of the arrow. The only "side effect" is that data moves through a different channel. 02:46:12 FreeFull: yeah, me too. ^_^ 02:48:49 So, lemme think. Hylisk types don't seem to be possible to translate into Haskell in a sensible way. Maybe they are, I dunno. But Hylisk *expressions* can be translated into Haskell in a sensible way, or so it seems. 02:49:42 tswett: a Hylisk type of kind * will most likely translate into a Haskell type of kind * -> * or (* -> *) -> *. 02:50:39 elliott: I had that thought, yeah. For a little while, I thought that Hylisk types might even translate into monads. 02:52:13 e.g. newtype Done r = Done r; data Unit r = Unit; data Zero r 02:52:23 don't know about Top. 02:52:29 Top = Bottom 02:52:31 maybe that Unit is actually Top. 02:52:39 FreeFull: what? 02:52:48 elliott: I've had almost exactly the same thought as that, yeah. 02:53:18 Just kidding 02:53:39 that wasn't very funny. 02:53:49 I defined the four identity types (Done, Unit, Zero/Impossible, Top/Garbage) in those three ways, using one of the definitions twice, but I knew that had to be wrong. 02:54:26 Now, certainly the Hylisk type World does translate to a Haskell monad. You'll never guess which one. Hint: it's IO. 02:54:31 tswett: I think you should rename Unit -> One and Done -> Bottom. 02:54:35 for consistency with the rest of the world. 02:55:14 elliott: I could, I suppose, but Haskellers are used to "bottom" meaning... whatever its Haskell meaning is. 02:55:51 Now, my reasoning with World and IO is pretty straightforward. In Haskell, a monad is essentially a context, which cannot be duplicated or discarded, but which can be queried. 02:56:18 And in Hylisk, a value of type World is essentially a context, which cannot be duplicated or discarded, but which can be queried. So, like, exactly the same damn thing. 02:56:59 But there's a problem. In Haskell, querying the context doesn't change the type of a context. If you make a query, you can always make the same query again any number of types. 02:57:27 Is this OK? Telepathy to 5ft anywhere; master loses 3 max HP within range. 02:58:09 But that's not the case in Hylisk. If you have a value of type (Int -> Int), then you can pass an Int into it and receive an Int, but only once. 02:58:30 tswett: Then add some ! and ? types too. 02:58:46 (Possibly even more than one kind of each.) 02:58:59 zzo38: yeah, but the problem isn't that ! and ? don't exist; the problem is that types without ! and ? do exist. 02:59:44 tswett: Yes, I know, but there can be ! and ? types in addition to the types without ! and ? 03:00:12 !(Int -> Int) would translate perfectly well as a Haskell monad, I think. But that doesn't fix the fact that (Int -> Int) does not. 03:01:28 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: So, that's what happens when Imakuni? means Imakuni! and Imakuni@. Now I know.). 03:02:14 So, this gives me a thought: "duh, just make them functors instead". 03:03:15 If "f" is a Hylisk type, then the corresponding Haskell type "f a" will mean "something that uses a Hylisk value of type 'f' to produce a Haskell value of type 'a'". 03:03:51 duh 03:04:38 So, what is "Done a"? It's something that uses a Hylisk value of type "Done" to produce a Haskell value of type "a". 03:05:15 There's a problem with that, though. The only thing you can do with a value of type "Done" is call it, and when you do, it won't return the program flow back to you. 03:05:54 tswett: I am pretty sure you want to be using something like the continuation monad's idea of negation. 03:06:07 which importantly, lets you *customise* the equivalent of Done to an "r" type you get to choose 03:06:31 elliott: I've definitely thought about the continuation monad(s) a lot, yeah. They also have the idea of "functions that don't return". 03:06:48 Where can I read about negation in a continuation monad? 03:06:57 Oleg's site has some stuff, I think 03:11:08 I haven't found anything yet. 03:14:06 What *is* the continuation monad's idea of negation, exactly? Is the negative of "a" in "Cont r" just "a -> r"? 03:17:08 :t callCC 03:17:09 MonadCont m => ((a -> m b) -> m a) -> m a 03:18:37 I have had some vague ideas about how Hylisk might turn into continuation stuff. In Haskell, you can't prevent someone from duplicating a value; but there may be ways to make it so that even if they do duplicate a value, they can only use one copy of it. 03:19:21 Like, suppose you're a function of type (a -> r) -> r, where r is opaque to you. You can duplicate your argument all you want, but it's not going to matter, because you can only *use* it once. 03:20:08 tswett: i think the negative of a is ideally a -> Cont r Void 03:20:57 That's isomorphic to a -> r, though, isn't it? 03:21:10 @unmtl Cont r Void 03:21:10 (Void -> r) -> r 03:21:14 That's a -> (Void -> r) -> r, and (Void -> r) only has one inhabitant. 03:21:30 yeah probably 03:21:44 i was trying to think inside the monad 03:22:09 Gee, this is starting to seem like it might be really simple. 03:22:28 wait, Void -> r has as many inhabitants as r has. 03:22:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:22:32 such is computer science 03:22:46 const r 03:22:53 oerjan: uh, no? The only inhabitant is \x -> case x of {}. 03:22:59 Uhh. 03:23:00 Hm. 03:23:03 no 03:23:09 one element, in a total language 03:23:13 oerjan: yeah, I think all those are equivalent, aren't they? 03:23:15 Void is initial 03:23:37 they're all the same empty function 03:23:54 copumpkin: a total language function doesn't have to use its argument. 03:24:13 oerjan: yeah, but who says const x /= const y? 03:24:15 it doesn't matter 03:24:18 you're being intensional 03:24:32 erm 03:24:40 take the graph of the function 03:24:41 OKAY 03:24:43 :) 03:25:16 If you're a function of type "Either (a -> r) (b -> r) -> r", you'll provide either an "a" or a "b" to anyone who asks, but they'll only really be able to use one of them. 03:26:41 And if you're a function of type "(a -> r, b -> r) -> r", then, uh... what the heck is that 03:27:24 Either a b 03:27:34 Can't be. 03:28:11 Okay, if you're a function of type "(a, b -> r) -> r", then you'll take an "a", and you'll return a "b", but no matter how many times you're called, they'll only be able to use one of the "b"s. 03:28:21 I'm too tired to explain now, but https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/haskell-cafe/XQ-tFFKgyqM/ldrTqYd4hHsJ 03:28:42 I'm talking about your (a -> r, b -> r) -> r 03:28:44 being isomorphic to Either a b, if your quantifiers are where I think they re 03:28:58 type Either a b = forall r. (a -> r, b -> r) -> r 03:29:05 I guess that makes sense. 03:29:10 Yeah, I'm not sure where the quantifiers are, though. 03:29:33 quantification is hard 03:29:35 let's go to sleep 03:29:38 * copumpkin goes to sleep 03:29:57 * copumpkin mumbles something about fibrations and binding 03:30:01 What if r is existentially qualified... then it's much worse. 03:30:12 Er, quantified. 03:30:13 then it's useless 03:30:22 Yeah, it must be quantified dependent on something... 03:30:38 Because that's supposed to be the "par" of linear logic, which is definitely not Either. 03:31:05 if those are -o then it's different 03:31:10 Essentially, a "Par a b" is a single value that behaves as both "a" and "b" at once. 03:31:15 but I'm not well versed in reasoning about linear logic 03:31:19 Nope, this is Haskell. 03:31:48 Guess I'll go to sleep, yeah. I'll think about continuations. 03:31:50 Good night, everyone. 03:31:51 :) 03:31:52 ciao 03:32:05 Auf Wiedersehen. 03:32:08 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:34:58 par is the one that's hardest to intuit 03:42:12 oerjan: forall r (f g :: Void -> r), f = g 03:42:30 oerjan: because forall (x :: Void), f x = g x 03:42:44 because forall (x :: Void), p 03:42:47 because Void -> p 03:44:53 OKAY BUT DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WHEN LOGIC STARTS BREAKING 03:50:20 `slist (or did someone already do this? I don't know when the upd8 was) 03:50:24 slist (or did someone already do this? I don't know when the upd8 was): Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:50:47 There was one HUGE update today 03:50:49 Forgot to slist 03:53:37 This webpage is not available <-- so i take it it turned out roxy is calliope's dream clone wife or something similarly server-crashing 04:07:03 -!- roflplatypus has joined. 04:07:18 hello? 04:08:15 -!- roflplatypus has quit (Client Quit). 04:10:40 hello 04:12:42 hello 04:12:48 hello 04:29:10 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:29:50 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:07:22 -!- Yaasky has joined. 05:15:32 -!- Yaasky has left. 05:18:54 -!- __Hithere has joined. 05:18:59 <__Hithere> hlleo 05:19:35 oehll 05:19:51 <__Hithere> i lkie you Bike, you are the cesloot 05:20:02 fnially someonea gets it 05:20:12 <__Hithere> i konw rtie? :D 05:20:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:24:33 hi __Hithere 05:24:38 `relcome __Hithere 05:24:42 <__Hithere> hlelo kmc 05:24:43 ​__Hithere: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:24:54 <__Hithere> i was adaerly wlceeomd lkie fitfy mliolin tmies 05:25:08 <^v> wдt 05:25:18 loco popele 05:25:24 itt we are drunk 05:25:44 <__Hithere> so, whats going on 05:25:53 <__Hithere> erm, forgot the ~ sorry 05:25:57 <__Hithere> so, wahts gnoig on 05:26:43 -!- kmc has set topic: The how-to guide to become the new face of zero and one | PDF yourself: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | this spacetime intentionally left right. 05:26:45 ^v: why are you connected as both ^v and __Hithere? 05:27:20 <__Hithere> eloitlt, becusae i wnat to see how aewosme my txet lokos 05:28:38 i think someone read too much of that "people only need the first and last letters to be in the right place" theory 05:29:00 so you're not drunk?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? fals advertising 05:29:10 <__Hithere> nrep, sorry to dnpiiossat kmc 05:29:14 what this channel has become.......... 05:29:22 <__Hithere> buirfcank 05:29:36 <__Hithere> brainfuck 05:29:42 buttfuck 05:29:45 <__Hithere> bairn|fcuk 05:29:54 <__Hithere> hmm 05:30:00 <__Hithere> maby i should make it seperate by capitals 05:30:07 <__Hithere> so BrainFuck comes out properly 05:30:30 __Hithere: there is no such thing as BrainFuck. 05:30:39 you may be confusing it with brainfuck. 05:30:43 brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrb- 05:30:48 <^v> oh right 05:30:52 * ^v shoots himself in head 05:30:58 NOW THE HUNTER BECOMES THE HUNTED 05:31:15 <^v> is it good that i use http response code 337 for a project thingy? c_c 05:31:28 HTTP 402 Payment Required 05:31:39 <^v> so that the header looks like HTTP/1.1 337 H4X 05:31:45 * kmc hugs ^v 05:32:08 * __Hithere raeps kmc 05:32:13 not cool 05:32:18 <__Hithere> (i cant /me ~text) 05:32:22 <__Hithere> :( 05:32:30 none of that here plz 05:32:32 <__Hithere> i need to add thдt 05:32:33 <__Hithere> okay 05:32:39 why are you russian some of the time 05:32:46 <^v> wдt 05:32:51 <^v> im never russian 05:32:55 privyet 05:33:20 Я люблю большие окурки и я не могу лгать 05:33:42 <^v> Ш вщте дшлу нщг kmc нщг фку ф зщефещ. 05:33:59 ^v: i suspect nonexistent response codes are not recommended. 05:34:11 <^v> not for webpages 05:34:13 im a potato?!?!?!? 05:34:38 <^v> kmc has a russian keyboard 05:34:39 russian is hard 05:34:40 <^v> confirmed 05:34:41 no 05:34:49 <^v> (or memorized the keys) 05:34:55 <^v> c_c 05:35:00 ꙮ 05:35:10 <^v> ^ cant see this 05:35:19 ^----------------------- IM WITH STUPID 05:35:24 -!- __Hithere has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:35:29 ;_; 05:35:37 <^v> :_: 05:35:39 by there 05:35:46 <^v> bye :) 05:35:51 <^v> i hated that bastard 05:35:56 <^v> he was an $%^hole 05:36:06 he had something to hyde 05:36:08 Русский Стандарт 05:36:20 <^v> Russian Standard 05:36:23 da 05:36:47 Вы хотите муравьев? потому что это, как вы получите муравьев 05:37:29 <^v> Нет, я, как картофель больше 05:38:10 <^v> Ш дшлу екфшты 05:38:14 kartofel 05:38:32 <^v> 05:38:45 05:38:54 <^v> 05:39:01 05:39:20 <^v> i dont like python 05:39:28 <^v> it is worth the title of joke esoteric language 05:39:35 not interesting enuf 05:39:41 <^v> Lua ftw 05:39:47 <^v> but its useless by itself 05:39:50 <^v> gmod ftw 05:40:13 those languages are so boring 05:41:00 <^v> [>->] 05:42:21 beep boop 06:18:58 What's a "cesloot"? 06:19:37 Presumably a "coolest". 06:20:36 not to be confused with a coopless 06:26:01 Ohh. (I slow.) 06:28:32 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Cua). 06:31:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:56:17 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:58:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:58:21 -!- Bike has joined. 07:13:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:34:49 -!- Bike has joined. 08:26:30 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 09:10:34 -!- carado has joined. 09:26:23 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:42:48 -!- Zuu_ has changed nick to Zuu. 09:56:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:43:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:22:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:31:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:32:13 Man, I forget how easy adblock makes watching youtube 11:32:26 Or having a desktop IRC client makes going on IRC 11:33:44 I had my first actual lectures this morning 11:34:09 One was an introduction to boolean logic, the other was an introduction to the concept of a computer architecture 11:34:17 I preferred the first one 11:34:31 I didn't think the second was very well presented 11:35:58 sounds exciting 11:36:37 -!- yorick has joined. 11:37:26 -!- S1 has joined. 11:51:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:52:32 -!- Bike has joined. 11:55:27 So Bike what are you doing? 12:02:23 ah ok 12:02:27 good to hear 12:03:05 same 12:04:55 -!- Mayushii has changed nick to Lymia. 12:08:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:26:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:33:59 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:36:20 -!- Bike has joined. 12:46:38 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:01:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:04:16 -!- boily has joined. 13:05:23 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:06:23 -!- asie has joined. 13:10:07 -!- asie has quit (Read error: No route to host). 13:15:56 -!- asie has joined. 13:24:12 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:25:22 -!- Koen__ has joined. 13:25:22 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:49:52 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 13:52:07 `pastewisdom 13:52:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:53:47 @tell oerjan my perception skills are poor. I usually need 17+ on a check. 13:53:47 Consider it noted. 13:53:51 @tell oerjan indeed. 13:53:51 Consider it noted. 14:00:55 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 14:04:08 -!- asie has joined. 14:08:02 -!- asie has quit (Client Quit). 14:18:42 -!- asie has joined. 14:30:36 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:31:13 -!- conehead has joined. 14:37:13 -!- Zuu has joined. 14:42:55 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 14:46:18 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:51:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:00:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:03:27 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 15:07:05 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:11:15 I'm working on a Hello World program in Tic-Tac-Toe. 15:11:25 So far, I have 60 games. 15:11:38 They print "Hello Wor" so far. 15:16:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:20:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:23:28 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:23:45 Anyone wanna help convert other BF programs to Tic-Tac-Toe? 15:23:57 Maybe someone can make a conversion program! 15:24:01 I can't. 15:24:10 I'm terrible at non-esoteric programming. 15:24:25 At best, I'll make a table. 15:28:32 -!- Bike has joined. 15:40:50 "I'm terrible at non-esoteric programming" -> So write a BF version. Then convert it with itself. 15:43:20 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:44:11 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:55:55 help i think tic tac toe is kinda cute for a brainfuck derivative... 15:58:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:00:11 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:07:25 -!- myname has joined. 16:07:48 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:09:53 -!- carado has joined. 16:15:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:15:33 @tell JWinslow http://codepad.org/fBMEnC3S is this a valid bf->ttt conversion? the wiki article is kinda vague 16:15:33 Consider it noted. 16:19:08 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:21:37 -!- asie has joined. 16:23:05 @tell elliott I want to block the latest spambot (I think I've spotted a pattern) http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/new appears to be a blank page; is there some sort of PHP issue going on on esolangs.org? 16:23:05 Consider it noted. 16:27:24 nooodl: It seems kinda wasteful. 16:41:18 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 16:51:07 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:56:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:59:13 I have a dream... an Esolang Wiki without spam... 17:00:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:14 -!- augur has joined. 17:05:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:08:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:16:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:17:51 shachaf: it sounds like Servo may get speculative tokenization of CSS a la http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/118795/pldi026-vaswani.pdf 17:17:54 p. exciting 17:21:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:21:11 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:21:37 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 17:21:40 that was hilarious 17:21:46 I started lagging, so I reconnected 17:21:50 in time to see the messages I'd just sent 17:23:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:27:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:36:03 ais523: ugh, same here 17:36:07 probably a version mismatch 17:39:34 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:44:23 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:47:41 -!- augur has joined. 17:54:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:03:29 -!- Bike has joined. 18:04:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:04:23 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:06:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:08:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:08:37 -!- nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:08:52 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:11:01 -!- yours_truly has joined. 18:16:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:18:29 ~metar CYUL 18:18:30 CYUL 071810Z 22034G50KT 140V220 6SM -RA SCT022 OVC045 20/17 A2956 RERA RMK SC4SC4 PRESRR SLP011 DENSITY ALT 1000FT 18:21:54 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:22:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:30:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:32:13 -!- tswett has joined. 18:32:23 Hey guys. 18:33:49 So you guys know Delineate.hs? A certain Haskell module that pretty much purports to implement linear typing, in Haskell. 18:34:58 This morning, during statistics class, I tried to replicate it. I could remember the definitions for Not and the turnstile, but nothing else. I came up with an implementation of Plus, and then I just used Not to turn it into an implementation of With. 18:35:22 did you learn any statistics 18:35:27 I don't think so. 18:36:09 So then I realized that given a linear type, the double negation of that type is always equivalent to the original type. So I added a new class, Dne, with a function called dne that lets you eliminate double negation. 18:36:18 This allowed me to simplify my implementation of With. 18:36:34 Then I go look here, and it turns out my implementation of With is this guy's implementation of Times. 18:36:35 so... you added stuff to remove stuff? 18:36:58 They can't both be right, can they?????? 18:36:59 * boily scratches his head in paradozzulment 18:37:00 boily: something like that, yeah. 18:37:42 So now I'm skeptical that this guy's Times is actually Times and not just With, because the thing he calls Times ought to be With. 18:40:28 It kind of seems like it is. Ich estoy confused. 18:42:34 I'll try to get a better idea of *how* this guy's stuff corresponds to linear logic. Like, what the actual correspondence is. 18:42:35 tswett: Je am 慌てている también. 18:44:10 Google Translate says "慌てて" means "hastily". 18:44:51 ah? 18:45:20 it also suggests “perpexedly”. 18:45:30 Ah, so it does. 18:46:18 i am perplexedly always? that's some deep shit boily. 18:46:24 Je don't parlare Japanisch. 18:46:28 También is also, not always. 18:46:38 same diff 18:46:41 Bike: I am deep. it was -RAing today. humidity confuses my neurons. 18:46:54 why your neurons specifically? 18:46:56 -!- ^v has joined. 18:47:16 tswett: et avec mon (supposément horrible) accent français, the confusion propagates by itself. 18:47:54 Bike: statistically, I have way more neurons than anything else in my body, modulo gastrointestinal bacteria. 18:48:41 uh... you are human, right? or am i making bad assumptions? 18:49:25 I have five fingers per hand, and I dislike BF derivatives. I think I am human, or under ~duck typing, something that moderately acts like one. 18:49:53 Is a ~duck a function that takes a duck and doesn't return? 18:50:35 hmm, there's an interesting insider trading speculation going on 18:51:01 it seems as though some people became aware of the contents of a specific announcement that was going to be released at a specific time 18:51:07 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:51:09 tswett: it's a function that takes an unwanted query, then returns no information. 18:51:21 Ooh, I love those. 18:51:23 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 18:51:25 and acted upon it after it had been announced, but before there was time for the information to reach the markets even at the speed of light 18:52:01 Isn't that a window of a few hundred milliseconds? 18:52:11 i mean i'm just saying, you have less than a hundred billion neurons, and more than a hundred trillion cells. by cell count you probably have more fascia or something 18:52:17 tswett: it was 7ms in this particular case 18:52:22 wikipedia says that there are about a thousand more bacteria in your gut than neurons in your brain. “The human body carries about 100 trillion microorganisms in its intestines” “One estimate puts the human brain at about 100 billion (10¹¹) neurons” 18:52:26 but finance trading software's faster than that nowadays 18:52:37 boily: well yes, but your body has other cells in it. 18:52:48 I must admit to being a bit surprised that there is a non empty intersection of relativity and finance law. 18:53:17 ais523: is it time for me to recommend krugman's paper on hyperspace arbitrage again 18:53:30 Bike: that seems like a great recommendation 18:53:32 I won't read it 18:53:37 Yeah, the relative order of those two events seems to depend on the frame of reference, doesn't it. 18:53:39 but I enjoy the fact that it exists 18:53:40 aw, but it's full of jokes 18:53:48 ais523: isn't it easily explainable by the fact that news organisations are allowed to transfer the data to their own servers in preparation for releasing it? 18:54:00 so it can be released immediately at the scheduled time once copied 18:54:04 ~duck fascia 18:54:08 http://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/interstellar.pdf 18:54:12 elliott: this was a big federal announcement in the US 18:54:17 ais523: so, is anyone actually going to get prosecuted here? 18:54:18 and they were intentionally keeping it secret until a specific time 18:54:19 the really weird thing is that US securities law mandates a notional single reference frame for the National Market System, even though this is physically impossible 18:54:25 .............metasepia......... 18:54:36 and they knew how time-sensitive it was, thus they specified the time they'd release it in advance, and used an atomic clock to make sure 18:54:43 tswett: who knows 18:54:48 my guess is no, but it's quite early yet 18:55:07 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:55:11 ais523: yes, I know 18:55:15 ais523: so the information was time-sensitive down to less than a second? 18:55:23 ais523: if you read the news articles it says news organisations are allowed to see and IIRC copy the data before it's announced 18:55:27 tswett: yes 18:55:34 -!- metasepia has joined. 18:55:36 elliott: hmm, right 18:55:38 ~duck fascia 18:55:39 fascia definition: a flat usually horizontal member of a building having the form of a flat band or broad fillet. 18:55:41 ais523: so it's perfectly plausible they just copied it to a nearer server before the release date, as far as I know 18:55:56 this is a plausible explanation 18:55:57 ais523: thus allowing simultaneous release at both locations, because you already paid the light-speed requirement in transferring it beforehand 18:56:20 I'd like to think that if it was that simple there would be no story, but... 18:56:21 ais523: so... do you have a link to this or something? 18:56:47 if I send an order to buy stock on NASDAQ, and NASDAQ thinks that I can get a better price on BATS, then they are legally required to route my order to BATS, but they might do this on the basis of their link to BATS being slow and the order can't actually be filled by the time it gets there 18:56:52 v. annoying 18:57:11 tswett: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/24/traders-may-have-gotten-last-weeks-fed-news-7-milliseconds-early/ 18:58:41 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:01:17 Okay. So the article says that they placed the order at about 2:00:00.002, even though theoretically, there was no way they could have gotten that information until 2:00:00.007. 19:03:47 , that's not insider trading. The information was released at 2:00:00.000, so they placed the order after the information was publicly available. That may be really unfair, but the purpose of insider trading laws isn't to make the marketplace more fair; it's to prevent people with insider knowledge from leaking it. 19:04:35 tswett: not sure anyone understands this correctly 19:04:45 I doubt it's ever come up before 19:05:52 what's the purpose of preventing them from leaking it 19:05:55 if not to make things more fair 19:06:24 kmc: they obtained the information through some sort of agreement that obliges them to keep the information private. 19:06:48 Or through illegitimate means. 19:07:21 -!- Bike has joined. 19:09:01 boily: connective tissue. the stuff that keeps your heart tied to your ribcage. 19:09:37 But yeah, the article makes a good point, I think. People trading securities ignorantly (i.e. literally everyone) are injecting free money into the market, or something like that, and all these guys compete to be the first to slurp it up. 19:10:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolfing haha what the fuck, awesome 19:11:01 tswett: I don't know about "literally everyone"; the public US equity market is pretty damn efficient these days. it's hard to get a foothold building a new HFT strategy from scratch as there's very little low-hanging fruit 19:11:46 kmc: yeah, but of all the people trading securities, not one of them knows *all* of the relevant information. 19:12:05 brokerages get a lot of stupid orders but they'll match them internally or route them to various "dark pools" etc. before it hits the public market 19:12:27 tswett: hm, ok, I guess that's a valid use of the word "ignorant"; I read a value judgement into it that wasn't there 19:12:34 but I wouldn't say they're injecting "free money" then 19:12:42 combining all that relevant information has a cost 19:12:46 Yeah, true. 19:12:53 I don't know all the information relevant to this thai chicken i just bought for lunch but i'm confident that the purchase was a good decision. 19:12:54 the people who don't pay that cost are paying others to do it for them 19:13:00 or something 19:13:07 isn't HFT more along the lines of like, basically shaving cents off each transaction? 19:13:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:13:29 Bike: what the rolfungot is that... 19:13:29 boily: is the source free? can i write 19:13:35 long term investors don't care about the last penny of the price; somebody else pays a bunch of physics PhDs and buys a bunch of servers to get that last penny from them 19:13:38 Fiora: that's not how it's defined, but that's what it normally does in practice 19:13:39 both parties walk away satisfied 19:13:41 fungot: of course you can. you just need an account on wikipédia. 19:13:41 boily: or lichen. not. know. 19:13:42 boily: pretty hilarious 19:13:51 I remember reading an article where they were doing cheesy things like using recognition algorithms to find large institutional trades 19:13:54 Fiora, ais523: there are all kinds of different HFT strategies 19:13:57 basically, suppose I want to buy something from you, I'm willing to pay £7, you're willing to sell it for £6 19:13:57 and then like, take advantage of that 19:14:12 if we just made the deals with each other directly, we'd probably agree on a price somewhere in between 19:14:30 in the markets, what will normally happen is that HFT bots will try to react as quickly as possible to us placing the buy or sell orders 19:14:39 then buy it from you for £6 and sell it to me for £7 19:14:48 so like super short timescale arbitrage? 19:14:49 Bike: indeed. my previous top-quackering holistic body manipultion technique was accupressure, but I think that one takes the cherry. 19:14:51 Fiora: yep 19:15:13 fungot: lichen tastes good. I had it once in China. 19:15:13 boily: every procedure returns a recurisve procedure. http://www.kendyck.com/ 2005/ 02/15-feb-2005 the scsh manual is?! 19:15:27 boily: i wish my whole body was organized in gravity. 19:15:44 anyway, this is tolerated because it increases liquidity; if I want to buy something for £7, and it normally trades for less than that, then the HFT bots will sell it to me immediately 19:15:49 Bike: btw, what does it mean? 19:15:56 boily: what does what mean 19:16:00 in anticipation of someone selling it for less than that soon (say, when you come along with your £6 version) 19:16:22 so I pay more than I might have to if I'd traded with you directly, but I get the trade fulfilled faster 19:16:40 So suppose that first you place an order of BUY LIMIT 7. Then I guess the bots could place an order of BUY LIMIT 6 right away. Then I place an order of SELL LIMIT 6, and so I sell it to the bot. Then the bot places an order of SELL LIMIT 7 and sells it to you. 19:16:42 Yup, that works. 19:16:52 Bike: to be organized in gravity. 19:16:54 some strategies provide liquidity, some of them take liquidity 19:16:58 both can be classified as HFT 19:17:09 fungot: the recursion that can be recursed is not the true recursion. 19:17:09 boily: I don't know but it sounds relaxing. 19:17:09 boily: it is not so much so that a reload can work" occasions. stupidity isn't so special. eg. many doctors think that multiple sclerosis ( fnord), fnord ( the old style negation symbol looks in between and good key travel 19:17:16 some strategies lose money on average except that exchanges pay you to provide liquidity 19:17:37 Bike: I'm sure I can find at least on place here. 19:17:56 I'd love to see the origin of "every procedure returns a recurisve procedure". 19:17:57 s/on/one 19:18:09 `pastlogs every procedure returns 19:18:13 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 19:18:20 it could be, like, markov. 19:18:28 Search for "recurisve procedure", man. 19:18:30 "every procedure returns" and "returns a recurisve procedure" massed up. 19:19:10 Bike: what do you know → http://www.rolfing.qc.ca/engl/rolf2.htm 19:19:18 Yeah, but what sorts of things return recurisve procedures? 19:19:45 https://www.google.com/search?q=recurisve this misspelling is more common than i thought. 19:19:53 I guess you could say that the Y combinator returns a recurisve procedure. But we wouldn't call it a procedure. 19:20:23 boily: damn. 19:21:33 Like, since it's a "procedure", that seems to imply that it's an actual piece of computer code. A recurisve one, to boot. But what sort of thing would specifically return a piece of recurisve code, rather than just any type of code? Not a compiler. Usually. 19:21:51 "I have the profound conviction that our bodies are the physical manifestation of who we are." 19:21:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:21:58 tswett: self-self-modifying code? 19:22:53 what if it meant "recursive" as in "computable", eh 19:23:16 Hmmm. That's a possibility. 19:23:24 recurisve* 19:23:42 Fiora, ais523: a lot of strategies can be decomposed as a "signal" that tells you what assets would be good to own right now, and an execution engine which buys those at the best possible price by understanding market microstructure 19:23:52 boily: by the way, if your neurons are directly exposed to atmospheric humidity, i recommend consulting a medical professional immediately. preferably a certified Rolfer ™. 19:24:45 in some cases the former is trivial, e.g. a pure market maker which is willing to go long or short on anything. in that case the execution had better be very good so that you can unload the position when the market moves 19:25:07 :-D. The video could be straight from The Onion. I also laughed when a Fox News employee explained with a straight face that since people don’t have the time to find out what’s true and what’s not, Fox News will helpfully do that for them. http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/7/4812630/fox-news-shepard-smith-news-deck 19:25:20 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:25:36 Bike: can one auto-rolf oneself? I have this emotional attachment to my precious brain. 19:25:44 ion: that is an awesome picture 19:25:51 but often the signal is based on observed patterns and statistical correlations between assets and such 19:25:58 boily: you'll have to get certification in practicing Rolfing ® first. 19:26:01 So, like... what happens when a person sells stock short, or something, and then they don't have enough money to buy it back? 19:26:07 also, you can factor out the execution engine as a service, and this is often done within a firm, but brokers will also do it for you 19:26:10 Presumably someone has to pay for that. 19:26:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:26:37 they'll offer a service which guarantees to buy a stock over the next minute and give you a price which is at most x basis points above the volume-weighted average price over that minute 19:26:46 Guess I need to go. Auf Wiedersehen. 19:26:50 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:26:56 oh I was going to answer the question :/ 19:26:59 «"We call these BATs," Smith notes. "Big area touchscreens."» it's so beautiful 19:27:43 uhm. in Québec French, «toucher son bat» is very obscene... 19:28:10 what's it mean 19:28:22 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:28:43 'This is to apprise you that $1.9 Million USD was paid out to us by the United Nations in conjunction with Microsoft... 19:28:46 They have successfully succeeded in depositing "your" total funds of $1,900,000.00 with us here at Western Union, Malaysia.' 19:29:03 you had two million dollars? do you have any more? can i have some? 19:29:27 kmc: «bat» is slang for penis. 19:36:14 why does each time I mention something embarassing do all conversations suddenly stop? 19:36:27 My chicken is spicy. I can't talk. 19:37:38 good point. chicken has ultimate priority. 19:37:53 what isn't slang for penis, really 19:40:00 kmc: "what" isn't slang for penis 19:40:08 at least, not before I said that 19:40:10 now it probably is 19:40:22 no, it was before you said that, i can think of how 19:40:44 Bike: it has to actually be used for that purpose to be slang 19:40:52 yes, i know 19:40:52 or at least appear on Urban Dictionary 19:43:02 "Note: This fund is coming in 2 security proof boxes which are sealed with Synthetic nylon seal and padded with machine." 19:43:03 The Oxford Dictionary of Euphemisms lists "what you may call it" ("often shortened to whatsit, less often to whatzis") with the meaning of "any taboo object". 19:43:42 yeah, that's the sort of thing i was thinking o. 19:43:43 f 19:43:57 "The whatsit is through there if you want it. (B. Forbes, 1983--a woman was indicating where the lavatory lay)" 19:44:09 let's see so World Fund Management wants to give me $7.3M, Standard Chartered is sending me $65M, and the United Nations / Microsoft are sending me $1.9M 19:44:15 fizzie: but that's a different word 19:44:18 lucky. 19:44:40 my spam box has a $10.5m thing from Nigeria 19:44:40 ("whistle" is slang for penis. (Didn't have to read very far to find one.)) 19:44:40 * ais523 wonders what "padded with machine" means 19:44:55 I am vaguely afraid to open any of them though 19:45:03 * kmc asks the padding oracle 19:45:33 -!- asie has joined. 19:48:24 "jump² a single act of copulation" 19:48:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:50:31 kmc: why are they giving you money? 19:51:02 cause i'm so great 19:51:17 Copulation in Three Acts 19:56:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:00:17 -!- Bike has joined. 20:15:36 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:29:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:38:57 checking whether the C compiler (clang -fPIC -fPIC -fPIC) works... no 20:39:03 maybe with a fourth -fPIC ?!?!?!? 20:40:14 kmc: you sound like fungot. 20:40:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:40:47 fungot: Why u no reply? 20:40:47 fizzie: invalid syntax delay and force are deficient. is that possible. 20:40:53 Oh, okay. 20:41:20 fungot: what have I done to you? 20:41:20 boily: " you must be 20:41:32 fungot: I must be... what? 20:41:33 boily: oh offby1, it's not useful 20:42:53 * boily slaps fungot "get a hold of yourself!" 20:42:53 boily: it's silly to junk up a page for the 21st century or something for tseitsei and perhaps others too: http://www.deviantart.com/ view/ fnord 20:43:22 http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131005/01383624761/how-telecom-helped-government-spy-me.shtml 20:46:11 fungot: obviously. 20:46:12 boily: stalin compiling itself is, just a clue 20:46:17 ion: obviously. 20:47:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:50:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:01:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:15:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:24:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ASSERTIVE CHICKEN!). 21:24:36 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:34:45 -!- Zuu__ has joined. 21:34:51 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:38:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:41:55 -!- augur has joined. 21:42:20 `pastelogs @tell boily 21:42:25 @messages-loud 21:42:25 boily said 7h 48m 37s ago: my perception skills are poor. I usually need 17+ on a check. 21:42:25 boily said 7h 48m 33s ago: indeed. 21:42:54 HackEgo: chop chop 21:43:06 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3029 21:44:19 HackEgo: chop chop 21:45:31 -!- yours_truly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:46:12 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:48:38 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:56:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:00:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:02:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:04:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:05:35 -!- shikhin has joined. 22:11:22 -!- Bike has joined. 22:14:32 `pastelogs recurisve 22:14:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1949 22:15:30 ^style 22:15:30 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 22:16:23 @tell boily fungot's irc style includes some logs from #scheme, the recurisve thing probably comes from there. 22:16:23 Consider it noted. 22:16:23 oerjan: that's why i was confused by spurious control chars coming out of nothing but cornstarch water. you would see them as seperate libraries instead of solving f(x,y,z,t) 0 for x 0 99 22:16:57 fungot: I would also be confused by that... 22:16:57 olsner: it was quick and she i let her fnord out one last zippy the pinhead is a character from the input from a file; i don't wnat to setup output to fnord to 22:17:23 i see #scheme takes grieving over their idols seriously. 22:18:07 hi fungot 22:18:08 shachaf: ( r6rs seems pretty cool game, supports many languages) fnord work 22:19:18 fungot got got 22:19:18 shachaf: and another satisfied customer. next! *grin* 22:22:48 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:27:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:01 -!- augur has joined. 22:28:40 "I have the profound conviction that our bodies are the physical manifestation of who we are." <-- finally a profound statement we can all agree with! 22:28:55 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 22:29:05 except, perhaps, the profundity part. 22:29:42 I figured out my Hello World program! It is 101 instructions in BF, and 81 games in TicTacToe. Wow. 22:29:58 I'll upload it soon! 22:30:05 hm... 22:30:24 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 22:30:29 ​140 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.>+++.<<.+++.------.--------.>+.-----------------------. [238] 22:30:53 !bf_txtgen Hello World 22:30:55 ​110 ++++++++++[>+>++++++++++>+++++++>+++<<<<-]>>>++.<+.+++++++..+++.>>++.<+++++++++++++++.<.+++.------.--------.<. [831] 22:31:00 I'm talking about the wiki example. 22:31:04 oh. 22:31:56 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 22:32:35 wait what 22:32:56 JWinslow23: so, you have your language specified? 22:33:19 What is specified? 22:34:26 tictactoe 22:34:47 ^bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 22:34:47 Hello World!. 22:34:53 I have all of the syntax (and cat program) down. 22:35:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:35:43 JWinslow23: oh the wikipedia one. that's shorter yes. here in this channel, "the wiki" usually means the esolang wiki (also we all are disgusted by people calling wikipedia just "wiki" hth) 22:37:27 (as we all know, the full name is wikiwikipedia) 22:39:05 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:44:54 oh wait the wikipedia one isn't shorter, it was 111 chars. 22:52:55 the wikipedia one looks txtgen made, unlike the one on esolang. 22:53:39 oh hm 22:54:00 !bf_txtgen Hello World! 22:54:03 ​111 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [243] 22:55:19 ok now i had the same text and it's identical to wikipedia. 22:55:45 indeterminism~ 22:56:14 no, i just didn't write precisely Hello World! before. 22:56:32 !bf_txtgen Hello World! 22:56:34 ​111 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. [324] 22:56:58 er, what's the bracketed number even do 22:57:07 ^bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>>>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>>>++++++++++[<+++++++++>-]<---.<<<<.+++.------.--------.>>+. 22:57:07 Hello World! 22:57:25 Bike: number of execution steps, i think 22:57:44 !bf_txtgen Hello World! 22:57:47 ​115 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>----.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [189] 22:58:04 now that's more like it 22:58:43 243and 324 are different even though it looks like the code is the same... 22:59:29 oh good point. 22:59:40 maybe it's genetic algorithm steps, then. 23:05:46 * oerjan makes our wiki use the shorter version too. 23:06:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:09:47 -!- lexande has joined. 23:12:11 hexande 23:12:16 hkmc 23:12:20 are you here for nobel prize season? 23:12:39 a nobel endeavor? 23:14:07 you can award your own nobel prizes when you can come up with an endowment big enough for a million dollar prize annually 23:14:22 when I become a central bank you mean 23:14:38 and get some scandinavian institution to agree to make the decisions 23:16:09 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 23:17:40 what if i want to award micronobel prizes 23:18:07 Look at the wiki page for my language, TicTacToe. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tic_Tac_Toe 23:18:17 Any suggestions? 23:18:56 kmc: how about the fact that nobel's will says the prize in literature is only for work in an idealistic direction 23:19:06 LOOK! At the picture. SEE! The skull. The piece of skull removed. 23:19:10 lexande: wtf 23:19:37 -!- Bike has joined. 23:20:56 @tell ais523 or at least appear on Urban Dictionary <-- ok i see cocaine and marihuana, but not penis. 23:20:56 Consider it noted. 23:21:10 it's for science. 23:21:56 perhaps cocaine is itself slang for penis 23:22:32 `? bsdmreclist 23:22:35 bsdmreclist? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:22:51 it's not a wisdom entry, it's just a file 23:22:52 `? bdsmreclist 23:22:53 `cat bdsmreclist 23:22:55 cat: bdsmreclist: No such file or directory 23:22:55 ​* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits 23:23:17 hmm, those were meant to be out of order 23:23:33 YOU are out of order. 23:23:39 whisky dick, cocaine cock 23:23:56 umm 23:24:03 `run echo YOU are out of order. >> bdsmreclist 23:24:04 bash: oerjan: No such file or directory 23:24:06 this is clearly a strange place 23:24:12 lexande: what were you expecting 23:24:19 `run echo " YOU are out of order." >> bdsmreclist 23:24:22 `relcome lexande 23:24:23 No output. 23:24:25 ​lexande: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:24:29 lexande: NOW you are realizing? wait are you new here. 23:24:33 darn too late. 23:24:44 i thought lexande looked familiar. 23:24:44 `quote 23:24:46 713) I think we are sort of this insane, and also sort of not as much as insane, and also sort of a bit more insane than that, and also somewhat more various other thing at various times whatever you are discussing at that time 23:24:57 kmc: very poignant. 23:24:58 that quote is hella apropos 23:25:02 oerjan: i've stuck my head in here a few times previously 23:25:09 i recall it being less strange 23:25:11 and you have always left with your head too! 23:25:17 lexande: it's my civilizing influence 23:25:18 that's true 23:25:26 wait, poignant is not a synonym for apropos 23:25:29 it may be strange but it doesn't seem dangerous 23:25:30 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:25:37 `quote kmc 23:25:39 588) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 618) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. \ 689) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN \ 692) has there been any work towards designing programming l 23:25:40 also I can do this now: 23:25:46 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o kmc. 23:25:49 `quote lexande 23:25:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o kmc. 23:25:51 939) sometimes i am confronted with a problem and i think "I know, I'll use Banach-Tarski" 23:26:20 lexande, do these problems involve not having enough of something 23:26:21 `run quote kmc | shuf 23:26:23 1044) would not be surprised to find out this tumblr is guerilla marketing by wolfram co to sell mathematica to stoners \ 1000) man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile of cows you have previously put your arms t 23:26:29 `run quote kmc | shuf 23:26:32 724) aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u (corruption of "aim heckler") \ 999) healthy immune system is a wonderful thing, you gotta take advantage sometimes i eat food off the ground just to keep mine on its toes \ 956) Sgeo_, are you just trying to pos 23:26:38 -!- JWinslow23_ has joined. 23:26:57 Phantom_Hoover: ... 23:27:06 what 23:27:11 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:27:17 what did i do this time 23:27:18 Phantom_Hoover: you seem to have been whooshed by that quote. 23:28:09 oerjan: mostly i am a friend of kmc's from way back. i also know shachaf from Another Place 23:28:11 oh is the joke that you'll have as much problem as you like 23:28:11 `? cello 23:28:14 ​The high level stucture of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/. 23:28:20 WTF? 23:28:43 Phantom_Hoover: the joke is that it's an allusion to the regexp joke. 23:28:50 also, banach-tarski. 23:28:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:28:58 yes, that would make sense 23:29:17 `run quote kmc | shuf 23:29:19 842) i would subscribe to @zzo38_ebooks kmc: I have no ebooks which can subscribe to \ 865) i like the idea that if you name your country a Soviet Republic you automatically get the right to call up Lenin on the telephone and complain about bathroom pranks \ 984) i'm not actually competent at hacking things umm 23:30:18 `quote 984 23:30:19 984) i'm not actually competent at hacking things ummmm kmc dont u mean `cracking' [tiny glider symbol with "hacker pride" written next to it in silkscreen] [head of a gnu] [tux penguin] [face shoved in toilet] 23:30:41 kmc why u do this 23:30:48 which? 23:30:52 my quote 984? 23:30:57 that was kind of kmc.jerkcity.moed++ 23:31:04 because elliott's a nerdeeee 23:31:08 no, `run quote kmc | shuf 23:31:12 oh why not 23:31:23 oerjan started in with the `quote kmc 23:31:29 but the earliest quotes are embarassing and bad 23:31:31 so i had to shuf them 23:31:44 to get other embarassing quotes. 23:31:46 `run quote lexande | wc -l 23:31:48 1 23:31:50 oerjan: but not bad ones! 23:31:56 it's beyond me why you would be embarassed by cocks 23:31:58 true, true. 23:32:02 i'm pretty happy with my one quote 23:32:16 `quote lexande 23:32:18 939) sometimes i am confronted with a problem and i think "I know, I'll use Banach-Tarski" 23:32:29 `quote tarski 23:32:31 939) sometimes i am confronted with a problem and i think "I know, I'll use Banach-Tarski" 23:32:32 i was expecting " i'm pretty happy with my one quote" 23:32:38 i feel tarski's the less appreciated of the pair 23:32:44 `? banach-tarski 23:32:53 ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 23:33:05 tarski, as in "proved reals decideable" tarski, is underappreciated? 23:33:05 we should have something cleverer there 23:33:11 Phantom_Hoover: but, Tarski undefinability of truth, and Tarski-Vaught test for elementary substructures, and stuff 23:33:19 yeah what he said 23:33:26 i mean banach's theorem is cool too but c'mon 23:33:29 vs. banach space? i know which i've heard of more 23:33:37 and he has a theorem of his own! 23:33:40 whereas only analysts care about banach mostly 23:34:00 maybe you've been spending too much time in infinite-dimensional space, phantom 23:34:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:34:15 maybe you've been spending too much time around analysts 23:34:18 whereas only logicians care about tarski? 23:34:22 -!- JWinslow23_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:34:28 yeah, well, which one is closer to this channel 23:34:32 well i do avoid logicians when i can... 23:35:01 what did we ever do to you 23:35:04 programmers are confused and scared by reals, man 23:35:11 that's because real numbers are /fucked up/ 23:35:18 Phantom_Hoover: well you see, since tarski and banach are both half of banach-tarski, they are also equivalent to the whole 23:35:25 see like that *points and laughs at kmc* 23:35:51 oerjan, oh ofc. 23:35:57 though speaking of unknown hyphenated mathematicians, i only looked up who bendixson was today 23:36:02 and i already forgot 23:36:11 -!- mnoqy has joined. 23:36:17 good job 23:36:21 good story 23:36:38 "As a young student Bendixson made his name by proving that every uncountable closed set can be partitioned into a perfect set (the Bendixson derivative of the original set) and a countable set." deep, apparently 23:37:04 maybe he was just trying to get the name bendixson on things 23:37:20 i know i would 23:37:24 mathematicians: taking derivatives of things since 1680 23:37:33 well he's mostly known for the "poincaré-bendixson theorem" and poincare is obviously famouser 23:37:37 AUGH he was a fucking SWEDE 23:37:56 the curry-howard correspondance is the curry-howard-de Bruijn correspondance in .nl 23:38:11 it's kind of weird to say someone's name is cool and then complain about their nationality 23:38:24 imo debruijn++ 23:38:57 Bike, i... didn't say it was cool! 23:39:04 you implied it 23:39:14 implying is the new saying 23:39:58 "You infer, I imply" 23:40:07 Bike: oh, i only heard of him because of cantor-bendixson rank 23:40:21 huh i have never heard of that 23:40:33 maybe he's more famous than i realized.................. 23:40:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:41:01 does the "s" actually do anything in "Bendixson"? 23:41:09 or is it just like, okay, here's an "s" to help you get over that "x" 23:41:16 it says he's son of bendix obviously 23:41:17 probably copied other people's work and pretended he discovered it independently 23:41:23 to get his name on things 23:41:43 Phantom_Hoover: well poincare-bendixson was him ironing out an earlier proof by poincare. 23:42:36 oh, but it went the opposite way with "bendixson-dulac" 23:43:00 maybe mathematics isn't actually driven by single geniuses and a bunch of hangers on........ 23:44:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:44:42 elliott: seems "bengtsson" is another form 23:45:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:45:58 maybe mathematics isn't actually driven by single geniuses and a bunch of hangers on........ 23:46:10 hi 23:46:17 on this general topic can i have 3 minutes of hate for the wolframs 23:46:27 plural, now? 23:46:35 yes 23:46:36 elliott: i think the s does something, yes 23:47:14 ben dix son 23:47:33 i saw a new kind of science in my uni bookstore, had a good chuckle 23:47:42 conrad's now going around doing TED speeches about how terrible maths education is and how we all have to fix it by teaching all the kids with mathematica 23:47:55 i love ted talks. they're so bad 23:48:09 also elliott you know alice atlas? 23:48:26 "Wolfram has been a prominent proponent of 'Computer-Based Math'- a reform of mathematics education to make greater use of information technology. [4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]" hmm not sure i buy it better find some more sources 23:48:36 warwick has a big TED^x conference 23:48:41 i know people who go and all 23:48:41 lexande: yeah, for 7 years :) 23:48:48 yay for the world being small 23:48:55 «he argued that "Maths should be more practical and more conceptual, but less mechanical,"[19] and that "Calculating is the machinery of math - a means to an end."» is this even coherent 23:49:30 Phantom_Hoover: what i've seen of tedx has been way worse than even regular ted 23:49:44 Bike, keep in mind that vortex math had its big break at a tedx 23:49:54 haha 23:49:57 i've only seen the vortex math tedx 23:50:14 some kind of joke about how singular geniuses are not invertible 23:50:16 it was a good tedx though 23:50:22 the last ted talk i saw was this neuroanatomist going on about the mystic experience she got from a hemorrage 23:50:29 what do you even say to that 23:50:36 tedx presumably? 23:50:37 hm 23:50:39 "i'm sorry your brain blew up but i don't care" 23:50:39 have you all heard the story about my dad and vortex math 23:50:58 i vaguely remember something about it but i could be imagining 23:51:39 so generally when i hear about such hilariously bad talks they are TEDx but are there notable TED-proper instances? 23:51:43 -!- augur has joined. 23:51:56 well i showed it to him 23:51:58 ... is TEDx like UberX 23:52:04 tedx is ted by third parties 23:52:07 and he was all like "this guy's onto something, i'm interested" 23:52:15 a cut rate version of TED where they let random jerkoffs do it 23:52:18 so, yes 23:52:20 yep 23:52:32 lexande: the one i'm talking about was ted proper actually. jill bolte taylor if you want to look it up 23:52:59 uberx is fine, so is lyft, cab drivers are not really less jerkoff-y than randoms 23:53:49 they are maybe better at driving but not necessarily 23:55:05 how is lyft still legal 23:55:11 are they really still relying on the "donation" thing 23:55:47 aren't they legal the same way uberx is? 23:55:52 which way is that 23:55:52 what's lyft and why would it be illegal 23:56:10 also the donation number is inscrutable 23:56:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:56:26 there's no price list or anything 23:58:55 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 2013-10-08: 00:01:30 so http://governmentdownforeveryoneorjustme.com/ reports the US and Syria as down 00:01:33 but such places as Somalia and Afghanistan and Congo-Kinshasa and Afghanistan as up 00:01:36 which seems dubious 00:02:20 is afghanistan down? (twice?) 00:02:40 where does it say about Syria 00:02:42 is it geolocated? 00:02:56 also somaliland is fairly stable, i even know a person living there in another irc channel 00:03:02 same as the US 00:03:04 var down = ["United States", "Syrian Arab Republic"] 00:03:22 yeah somaliland is as fine as can be expected 00:03:25 also the syrian government is still, i mean, functioning 00:03:31 how can congo-kinshasa be down we norwegians were just trying to negotiate with them 00:03:43 they just had a coup a few months ago. 00:03:46 i mean US diplomacy goes on too 00:03:56 "as fine as can be expected" should be their tourism motto 00:04:01 um, i think 00:04:37 the Syrian government is significantly less functional than the US government at this point 00:04:47 granted 00:05:04 did you hear, assad said he's not sure whether he'll run for election next year, he'll only do it if the syrian people really want 00:06:23 oh bother, i was thinking of the central african republic, not the congo 00:06:34 "the people who are not shooting at me want me to run" 00:06:34 SEE? 00:06:52 kmc: preferably as fast as he can 00:06:53 whether centrafrique is down is also open to question 00:07:03 it's in a sort of "responds to ping but slow as balls" state 00:07:13 hey nice, the CAR's timezone is called WAT 00:07:16 Bike: "I'll only let the people decide if they want me if they decide they want me" 00:07:29 i'm paraphrasing ok :( 00:07:58 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57606012/syria-president-bashar-assad-says-too-early-to-say-whether-hell-seek-re-election-next-year/ 00:08:51 that really sounds like an onion headline 00:09:07 that's the exact reaction i've seen in the three places i've seen a link. 00:10:08 it seems like a nasty rhetorical trick to say "I'll only run if people want me" because you're implying that "if I run, people want me, you wouldn't want to vote against the people now would you" 00:10:42 what if we had some kind of system where you could "vote" for the person you want 00:10:53 and then people could run regardless if anyone wants them or not, and the "votes" of the "people" would decide "who the people want" 00:10:56 i don't think it's really a problem, because when people say that they're usually already in kill-the-people 99%-election-results mode 00:11:00 pretty innovative if you ask me! 00:11:08 so i mean, what's a rhetorical triq or two 00:12:03 Am I allowed to be a bit bothered at the idea of a Lisp having 'calling conventions' for Lisp functions, that can end up exposed to the user? 00:12:17 what's bothering 00:12:29 Also, what does that have to do with Syria 00:12:40 The way Racket does function calls that have keywords 00:12:46 lies acceptable for this question 00:12:59 They expand into a call to the function with the list of keywords and keyword values as first two arguments 00:13:07 It's a calling convention, of sorts, isn't it? 00:13:33 isn't having keywords at all a calling convention 00:13:37 or not having them, for that matter 00:16:12 -!- Zuu__ has changed nick to Zuu. 00:16:27 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 00:16:27 -!- Zuu has joined. 00:50:32 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 00:50:57 `? myanmar 00:50:59 myanmar? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:51:06 `? burma 00:51:08 ask Bike 00:51:42 do you require medical assistance 00:52:12 no 00:52:21 at least, i don't think so 00:52:21 good 00:52:25 would i know if i did? 00:52:30 i don't know 01:02:56 odds are high 01:07:38 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:13:10 -!- tswett has joined. 01:13:20 Hey guys, you know this? https://github.com/isomorphism/Delineate/blob/master/Control/Delineate.hs 01:13:38 Of course you do. Everyone in this channel has now heard of that file dozens of times. 01:14:03 Turns out that yeah, it's wrong. It allows you to derive "f ⊢ Unit" for all f, which you can't do in linear logic. 01:14:34 Because "f ⊢ Unit" amounts to "forall r. (Unit r -> r) -> f r -> r", and "Unit r" is a unit type. 01:15:50 Hetch, the module itself contains something which you can't do in LL. 01:16:03 Nope, I was reading that wrong. 01:16:18 It says "weakdist :: x ⊗ (y ⅋ z) ⊢ (x ⊗ y) ⅋ z", which I was reading as "weakdist :: x ⊗ (y & z) ⊢ (x ⊗ y) & z". 01:16:50 i imagine this would be much clearer without those white squares in it. 01:17:17 White squares like ⊢, ⊗, and ⅋? 01:17:21 yes. 01:17:31 All right, gimme a moment. 01:17:49 It says "weakdist :: x (y z) (x y) z", which I was reading as "weakdist :: x (y z) (x y) z". 01:18:08 * oerjan swats tswett -----### 01:18:57 also, i could see & just fine. 01:19:51 Oh yeah. 01:19:59 It says "weakdist :: x (y z) (x y) z", which I was reading as "weakdist :: x (y & z) (x y) & z". 01:20:20 MUCH BETTER 01:20:47 How's this look: 私のボオルは青いです 01:21:21 it looks like 私のボオルは青いです 01:22:11 So, what *is* ⅋? 01:22:35 it's par for the course 01:22:35 Whoops, I spelled ボール wrong. 01:23:09 "js.js is a JavaScript interpreter in JavaScript. Instead of trying to create an interpreter from scratch, SpiderMonkey is compiled into LLVM and then emscripten translates the output into JavaScript." 01:23:25 ion: a process obeying the protocol "a ⅋ b" is a process that simultaneously obeys "a" and "b", switching between them as it desires. Pretty much. 01:23:42 hmmkay 01:24:14 tswett, e.e 01:24:17 Is that, uh, Haskell? 01:24:22 Lymia: no, it's linear logic. 01:24:29 no it's sparta 01:24:33 There's a little rough spot there, though. 01:25:09 weakdist appears to be of kind (* -> *) -> ((* -> *) -> * -> *) -> * -> * 01:25:52 If flow enters an "a ⅋ b" through the "a" side of it, then flow can't exit through the "b" side, because "b" hasn't been entered yet; flow can only exit through a protocol that it's entered. 01:26:37 At least, in theory, that's how it *would* behave, if things were as simple as "a process that ... as it desires". 01:29:16 So here's the more complicated and more correct point of view: a process obeying the protocol "a ⅋ b" is a protocol that will obey "a" and is in the midst of obeying "b", or vice versa, and can switch between which one it's in the midst of obeying at will. 01:29:20 This doesn't make any sense, does it. 01:29:28 Lemme give an example. 01:30:46 So, uh, let's say that a VM3-Coke is a vending machine that has the property that when you push its button, it dispenses a Coke, but only the first three times you push it. Likewise with a VM3-Pepsi. 01:31:49 A "VM3-Coke ⅋ VM3-Pepsi" is a machine that's a combination of a VM3-Coke, and a VM3-Pepsi-whose-button-has-already-been-pushed-but-which-has-not-yet-dispensed-a-Pepsi. Or the same but with Coke and Pepsi swapped. 01:32:33 So, let's suppose the Pepsi button is the one that's already been pushed. The combination machine isn't going to dispense anything until you push the Coke button. When you do, it could dispense either a Coke or a Pepsi, as it desires. 01:33:35 Let's suppose that it chooses to dispense a Pepsi. Now it's a VM3-Coke combined with a VM2-Pepsi, such that the Coke button has already been pushed. Now it's not going to do anything until you push the Pepsi button. 01:34:03 welcome to #esoteric, where theoretical computer science is explained using everyday stuff 01:40:07 this doesn't seem like a very good vending machine. 01:41:52 I agree. 01:42:09 i mean, i don't use soda machines, maybe i'm naïve here 01:53:17 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:28:53 Is there any language that I have become interested in that didn't have at least one non-me person in here interested in it as well? 02:30:08 rebol? 02:33:25 Hmm, probably. Although someone here could be interested and just not in the chat, because it's non-IRC 02:33:29 (Stackoverflow Chat) 03:29:58 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:36:08 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:36:32 lexande: what brings you back here 03:37:49 well, i guess i can preänswer a question like that as far as lexande goes 03:39:38 * Fiora waves to lexande? 03:41:27 * lexande waves to Fiora? 03:41:40 shachaf: people need a place to go? 03:42:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:42:22 Oh, it's about that, isn't it. 03:43:04 is this gossip 03:43:19 i'm not aware of any gossip 03:43:31 and i'm not sure what preänswer shachaf was alluding too 03:43:39 the one you said 03:44:21 the "that" is gossip i'm thinking 03:44:42 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:44:48 the fact that people need a place to go is gossip? 03:45:03 no, the thing shachaf said is! possibly. 03:45:24 Never mind. 03:45:56 I don't know anything except vague rumors of things involving kmc and lexande and alice and other people 03:46:32 Fiora: do you know alice? 03:46:58 Who is alice? 03:47:10 see. 03:47:21 um... third hand or something <.< 03:51:07 Bike: see what? 03:51:54 what is truly important in this life. 04:06:34 -!- conehead has joined. 04:33:04 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:38:03 -!- asie has joined. 04:47:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:16:32 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 05:17:05 -!- asie has joined. 05:21:36 -!- asie has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:13:04 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:19:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:28:31 -!- S1 has joined. 06:31:18 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: I will be back, back in byellow). 06:42:27 >_> 06:42:38 i've never met alice 06:42:54 Who's that? 06:43:01 don't worry about it. 06:43:08 there was a convo going on before you arrived 06:43:09 okeydokey 06:43:23 I thought so. I'll look it up in the log 06:44:18 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 06:47:00 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:53:13 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 06:55:07 kmc: maybe you should come to NYC sometime 06:56:55 yeah 06:57:23 I think I have lower affinity for aeroplanes than I used to :/ 06:57:29 but still, yes 06:58:02 you could take the TRAAAAAIN 06:59:07 so long 07:04:45 I could Work From Train though 07:05:06 dunno how the 4G coverage is along that route 07:05:51 i have fewer Gs than that anyway 07:05:58 though I should fix that before such a trip 07:08:33 -!- oklofok has joined. 07:10:41 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:13:12 -!- ineiros has joined. 07:13:18 i thought you had a sprint LTE thing 07:14:00 doesn't your cellular phone have that many Gs just in its name 07:15:26 galagzy neggsus? 07:16:09 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:16:23 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 07:16:39 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 07:17:21 yes it's the EVO 4G but in this case 4G = WiMAX = sucks 07:17:50 -!- oklopol has quit (*.net *.split). 07:17:50 -!- ineiros_ has quit (*.net *.split). 07:17:50 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 07:22:57 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:23:52 how does it compare to HSPA+ 07:24:11 dunno 07:24:20 i don't know about... phones, and stuff 07:26:14 I was under the impression that HSPA+ was just 3.75G. 07:27:10 you can round that up to 4G 07:27:16 you can also round 3G to 4G 07:29:04 hmm, some guy on the osdev forums seems to consistently use "winchester" as the word for hard drive 07:29:13 haha that's oldschool 07:31:41 "The IBM 3340 Direct Access Storage Facility, code-named Winchester, was introduced in March 1973 for use with IBM System/370." 07:32:22 i thought it was supposed to be something about them being as loud as a Winchester rifle 07:33:27 apparently because it was 30+30MB and .30-30 is a rifle model 07:42:44 heh 07:42:55 what is meant by "30+30MB" 07:43:21 two disk packs of 30 MB that could be swapped, or something 07:43:27 ah 07:44:37 There was also a 3.9G something. 07:44:42 "an access time of 25 milliseconds" 07:45:11 amusingly that number has barely improved in 40 years, if you exclude SSDs 07:45:28 /dev/wd0s1 and so on. 07:46:20 (For Western Digital, even though presumably most of the disks so called haven't even seen one.) 07:47:25 "The name 'Winchester' and some derivatives are still common in some non-English speaking countries to generally refer to any hard disks (e.g. Hungary, Russia)," claims Wikipedia. 07:48:24 "A merevlemez (az egykori angol elnevezés alapján winchester-nek is), mely az adatokat mágnesezhető réteggel bevont lemezeken tárolja, melyet a forgó lemez fölött mozgó író/olvasó fej ír vagy olvas." 07:58:00 cray x-mp came with an (optional) 1GB/s SSD (the way I read it, 2GB/s if you use both I/O channels) 07:58:10 ... holds up surprisingly well compared to modern SSDs (though of course that SSD's probably the size of a room, the prize of a bus and only 1GB big) 07:58:45 fizzie: I've heard 'winsu' once or twice but I guess the heretical 'kovo' is the Standard™ nowadays. 08:00:03 which language? 08:01:30 Finnish. 08:17:34 it's weird to think that such a ubiquitous word as "software" was a kind of punny coinage 50 years ago 08:18:09 Deewiant: I don't think I've heard "winsu" ever. ("kovo", yes.) 08:19:16 Some have strong opinions on how the latter should not be used for anything else than the building material. 09:10:46 -!- carado has joined. 09:32:13 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 10:25:00 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:56:15 -!- carado has joined. 11:12:53 -!- carado_ has joined. 11:14:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:35:00 -!- Zerker has joined. 11:37:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:48:39 -!- Zerker has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:48:44 -!- Zerker_ has joined. 11:51:23 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:57:26 -!- carado has joined. 12:02:21 -!- trout has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 12:08:44 -!- Zerker_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:10:48 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:11:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:14:39 -!- boily has joined. 12:15:15 -!- Zerker has joined. 12:17:26 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 12:18:40 -!- Zerker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:19:01 -!- Zerker has joined. 12:21:36 -!- carado has joined. 12:27:26 -!- boily has joined. 12:29:20 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:29:29 good zsh morning! 12:54:33 Good scsh afternoon. 13:00:03 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 13:05:51 fizzie: people use it? 13:07:36 (besides, the main dev seems to be one hell of a grumpy person.) 13:08:46 -!- Bike has joined. 13:10:18 I wasn't implying that. 13:11:19 -!- asie has joined. 13:11:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:11:31 -!- variable has joined. 13:17:01 -!- yorick has joined. 13:23:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:26:59 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 13:28:31 -!- carado has joined. 13:30:05 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 13:47:15 -!- Zerker has joined. 14:10:01 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 14:16:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:16:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:21:24 -!- conehead has joined. 14:27:16 -!- asie has joined. 14:34:42 -!- mary3 has joined. 14:34:56 -!- mary3 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:38:59 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:46:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:02:05 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal. 15:08:35 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 15:10:32 `? `? 15:10:38 ​`? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:13:37 `? quine 15:13:39 ​`? quine 15:13:44 `? JWinslow23 15:13:47 JWinslow23 is a Wisconsinite who doesn't give a BF. 15:14:11 I will soon make a truth machine in TicTacToe! 15:33:43 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:36:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:42:03 -!- Lymia has joined. 15:42:04 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 15:42:04 -!- Lymia has joined. 15:42:10 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:44:58 @tell lexande http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yFhR1fKWG0 15:44:59 Consider it noted. 15:47:45 what is this shit 15:48:35 what inspires me is teaching JavaScript to African refugees 15:50:14 my sister was talking about that recently 15:50:37 He has some other great stuff as well. 15:51:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:07:08 http://safr.kingfeatures.com/idn/etv/zone/xml/content.php?file=aHR0cDovL3NhZnIua2luZ2ZlYXR1cmVzLmNvbS9CbG9uZGllLzIwMTMvMTAvQmxvbmRpZS4yMDEzMTAwM185MDAuZ2lm hm 16:07:50 ? 16:07:54 I don't know how to make it giant. 16:11:19 have you ever had sea cheesy baked potatoes 16:11:19 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:19:30 nice, the guy after him completely seriously said that "history shows that the countries that explore have the highest standard of living" 16:22:00 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:28:49 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:29:34 -!- augur has joined. 16:42:16 -!- asie has joined. 16:47:23 oh wow 16:47:37 somehow by only being on this channel once a year 16:47:39 i got into the pdf 16:47:40 GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment 16:47:45 hahaha i was like, 10 then 16:47:45 or what 16:49:13 back from lunch, and the shanty wasn't half bad. 16:50:02 `pastelogs addquote.*asie 16:50:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9344 16:51:19 asie: are you twelve 16:51:27 "like, 10" 16:51:29 i was actually 14 16:51:59 `run dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 a= 16:53:01 asie: i can't keep track of everyone's ages. i just assume everyone is a lot older than elliott, until i run into other evidence. usually a while after i find the evidence too though. 16:54:30 asie: I had much fun creating the pdf. 16:54:53 elliott: are you a lot younger than I? 17:08:37 I think there's plenty of evidence that elliott is exactly the same age as elliott 17:08:44 rather than being a lot older 17:08:56 Like what? 17:09:05 laws of maths, I guess 17:09:20 That's deduction, not induction from experimental evidence. 17:09:24 I'm afraid I'm not convinced. 17:10:07 the concerned subject isn't very responsive. 17:10:38 there's a huge amount of evidence for the reflexive property of equality / the antireflexive property of "older than" 17:10:47 i 17:10:56 've met loads of people and not one of them was a lot older than themselves 17:11:12 fungot: are you antireflective? 17:11:12 boily: extend a protective arm/ symbian/ series60. :p diamondie well, isn't that enough? ummm......what were we talking about again? huh....really? 17:11:14 You shouldn't generalize from people you've met to people I've met. 17:11:33 @tell JWinslow23 you should contribute your truth machine to https://github.com/ticklemynausea/gobsprogram 17:11:33 Consider it noted. 17:11:42 I mean you live in like, Texas, right? Total other side of the world. Things are different here. 17:11:54 lexande: what kind of people do you meet? are met people human? do you like roast beef? what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 17:13:40 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhin_. 17:14:01 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:16:24 -!- carado has joined. 17:16:47 boily: {iowa, tanzania, cambridge, caltech, boston, new york, CMU, random traveling} people; yes (to first approximation); ambivalent; (40.80, -73.94) and 90kg 17:21:25 err, 900N sorry 17:21:28 * boily falls down from his chair “A first! Complete and useful information!” 17:22:19 no oxford comma though 17:22:43 cambridge comma 17:22:49 Oxford commas are for losers. 17:23:00 hegor 17:23:14 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:23:19 heygor? 17:23:26 40, -74... boston? 17:23:43 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.80,-73.94 17:24:29 darn. 17:24:39 boston is like 42,-71 17:25:04 boily: I think I gave you complete and useful information too 17:25:12 boily: what is your origin story? 17:25:57 kmc: my memory is bad. 17:27:44 lexande: grew up in Québec City, now in Montréal. I like orange things and phở. I created some langs. imho, my best is aubergine. 17:27:46 do you want my current coördinates or the place where I habitually sleep or what 17:28:26 kmc: ideally the weighed average of your usual coördinates, but what I have now should do the job. I'm just missing your body weigh, though. 17:29:28 my mass is about 98 kg at the moment 17:29:46 thanks! 17:29:55 it's decreasing slowly (although not yesterday; free cookies) 17:45:18 boily: a weighted average of my coordinates could be quite different 17:45:38 and would take a while to work out 17:46:19 ... 17:46:23 do you have the "where i slept this year" chart 17:47:02 no, no info yet on Sleeping Places. could be interesting, if not creepy. 17:47:06 no, i only made one for 2010 17:47:32 can i see the one for 2010 17:48:17 when i'm next at a keyboard 17:48:37 C++ can inline a caller-provided lambda into the callee 17:48:45 lexande is currently communicating via smoke signal 17:48:48 fungot: do you sleep? are you like irresponsible humans who always move? 17:48:48 boily: so can it be? it's a pointless concept of " metacity distance" is all a silly argument. the only change that might be 17:49:52 we're talking about how Rust should obtain this power 17:51:48 kmc: actually http://ugcs.net/~arapp/slept.png 17:52:52 this image is just designed to get me to stand my laptop up like a book right 17:53:43 i copied the design from someone else, i can't speak to her intentions 17:54:15 elliott: what is your origin story? 17:54:18 Inspect Element -> Style Editor -> New -> img {transform: rotate(90deg);)} 17:55:42 lexande: I was born and moved around on an island a bit and haven't yet noticed myself being dead 17:55:50 so sayeth the prophecies 17:55:59 -!- mnoqy has joined. 17:56:19 elliott: The British Experience 17:56:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:56:39 i,i "i can't speak to her intestines" 17:56:45 Hello 17:56:49 haneb 17:57:09 hi 18:00:05 tonjour. 18:00:41 imnqso, speaking to intestines, be they yours or someone else's, is not a good idea. 18:00:50 Alas, my programming lectures are pretty... basic 18:00:55 Also Python-ish 18:01:05 did you expect otherwise 18:02:59 elliott: are you one of the hexham people 18:03:22 `? lexande 18:03:25 lexande? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:03:25 that's quite the question 18:03:28 I think I am the only Hexham person left 18:03:33 a dying breed 18:03:54 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LastOfHisKind 18:04:34 I am a failure to hexhamkind 18:04:56 i have never been to hexham. i've been to wylam, that's on the way sort of 18:05:29 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:05:33 ... 18:05:40 Wylam is a bit past Hexham 18:06:41 i mean if i were going to hexham, i'd presumably fly to either london or newcastle, and the train to hexham would take me via wylam 18:06:51 so it is on the way 18:07:39 you know way too much about north-east england for your own good 18:08:43 they got that tyne and wear metro 18:08:49 Oh wait, I was thinking of Warden 18:11:00 The Tyne and Wear Metro goes nowhere near Hexham 18:11:23 to know of north-eastern places in the world is an essential survival skill. 18:13:49 I'm disappointed with myself for never visiting Bletchley Park 18:15:06 I guess I wasn't that into crypto until a yearish ago 18:18:00 -!- shikhin` has joined. 18:18:33 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 18:20:16 Taneb: i know, but elliott expanded the scope of discussion to the whole northeast 18:21:20 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:21:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 18:21:27 -!- shikhin__ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:21:43 kmc: i have more reason to be disappointed with myself for never visiting bletchley park 18:21:45 Why do you know about this 18:22:18 because you've been in london more? 18:22:21 Did you know that the Tyne and Wear Metro is one of only two metros in the world to have a station on the same line in two different ways? 18:22:45 yes 18:23:16 how do you mean 18:23:35 Taneb: is the London Underground the other one (Euston), or did I misunderstand the restriction? 18:24:29 Taneb: it would be better to say self-intersecting, self-paralleling things are more common (e.g. Circle Line at Paddington) 18:24:50 ais523: the two Northern Line branches aren't really the same line 18:24:55 i was thinking of the fact that there are two Hammersmith-bound platforms on the circle line at Edgware Road 18:25:24 (not to be confused with the other Edgware Road station next door) 18:25:26 anyway, Tyne&Wear and Vancouver Skytrain half self-intersection 18:25:28 lexande: well it fits the restriction of connecting to the same line two different ways better than most situations 18:25:32 s/half/have/ 18:26:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:02 -!- ^v has joined. 18:29:37 RandstadRail, if you count that, also has such a pretzel topology in Zoetermeer 18:31:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:33:15 -!- Bike has joined. 18:37:05 is a half self-intersection possible? 18:38:46 well, maybe we can claim these are all half-self-intersection 18:39:14 since in each case there are two lines sharing track in one part of the station, and only one of them loops back around to the other part of the station 18:50:14 also singapore is building a pretzel-like self-intersecting line but it seems there will be no transfer station at the crossing 18:51:45 .....? 18:52:47 ……… 18:53:15 \ldots{} 18:53:41 I reread your assertion. no station, therefore no transfer. I was puzzled over the fact that you couldn't change lines at a station. 18:54:07 (fsvo line) 18:57:42 I have an audition tomorrow 18:57:51 I am auditioning for Jesus Christ Superstar 19:04:58 I went to Bletchley Park (even got the T-shirt) while visiting London in 2011; 'twas an interesting place. 19:05:03 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131008-bp.jpg <- that's from there. 19:05:25 -!- bicyclidine has joined. 19:07:43 darn. and there I naïvely hoped that the picture contained fizzie himself. 19:07:59 btw, 5 bit wide paper: is that baudot? 19:07:59 It's the source of fungot. (It's not.) 19:08:00 fizzie: try a new tack..." cases where test is doing something to x? else..." 19:08:30 I think it could well be. 19:09:11 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131008-bp2.jpg <- that's where it's from, if it helps. 19:12:02 Oh and I think I may have pasted this one before for obvious reasons: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131008-bp3.jpg 19:12:14 I'm not sure if the one we've got on channel is a preceding or a succeeding model. 19:13:14 I think it all depends if he's older or younger than himself. 19:13:22 s/if/on if/ 19:18:24 And then there was this ridiculous thing https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131008-bp4.jpg how they kept people from pressing that button I'll never know. 19:21:08 :o 19:22:49 `relcome bicyclidine 19:22:53 ​bicyclidine: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:23:01 disregard the welcome. you didn't see nothing. 19:23:14 Disregarded 19:24:48 -!- shikhin` has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:25:57 > length "bicyclidine" 19:25:58 11 19:26:05 > (11+4)/2 19:26:06 7.5 19:26:10 almostike 19:27:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:28:19 What 19:28:28 Oh 19:28:30 No 19:30:34 wikipédia doesn't have bicyclidine, but suggests eticyclidine → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eticyclidine 19:32:36 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:36:43 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:40:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:42:04 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:42:27 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:37 -!- Bike has joined. 19:45:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:53:09 -!- bicyclidine has quit (Quit: [spurious input; ignoring]). 19:58:12 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:59:08 Does anyone fancy typing this listing into a C64 emulator? http://concoctedlogic.com/wordpress/commodore-64-core-war/ 20:04:46 I'm sure you could OCR that. (In not many more magnitudes of time than it'd take to type it, but it's the principle that matters.) 20:08:49 http://sprunge.us/DJLC <- tessearct with no tuning. "Not too shabby, eh?" 20:09:09 Some of the words are even correct. 20:09:40 :-) 20:11:45 that looks like a weird glitchy fungot remix... 20:11:45 boily: thanks anyway dude :) looks like a guy 20:11:54 fungot: np. 20:11:54 boily: do you see what i mean is, if your messages happen to go into a particular package? 20:12:18 fungot: you have packages? 20:12:18 boily: by " imports", do you want 20:12:28 fungot: oh. so you're a python program in disguise. 20:12:28 boily: bugs are tasty.') it plainly refuses to work though 20:12:42 fungot: well, that's what bugs are for. 20:13:14 fizzie: you lied to us! fungot's written in python! 20:13:50 http://sprunge.us/OchK <- cuneiform --dotmatrix 20:13:59 boily: Maybe that's just what it wants you to think? 20:14:47 fungot: do you trust fizzie's opinion on your true identity? 20:14:56 fungot: are you really an "it"? you shouldn't let fizzie talk about you like this 20:14:57 olsner: they're have better latency but worse throughput ( unlikely) or it wasn't taught properly ( likely) the reporter is mixed up 20:15:41 olsner: indeed. the Reporter Fizzie is mixed up, and wasn't taught properly. 20:17:54 Well, just for completeness... gocr: http://sprunge.us/UeHB 20:19:29 -!- shikhin` has joined. 20:19:39 -!- shikhin` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:24:52 fungot: can you OCR the code? fizzie doesn't seem to be succeeding 20:24:52 olsner: so i imagined the correct thing to do indeed :) 20:31:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: poulet, poulet, poulet, poulet, still not poulet.). 20:31:27 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:00 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 20:37:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:44:18 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:52:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:03:30 -!- Bike has joined. 21:06:06 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:07:05 https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Mixed-language-link-time-optimization is really cool 21:07:33 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 21:07:44 cross-language inlining and dead store elimination 21:26:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:30:01 hmm, I haven't made debugging particularly easy for me... my "kernel panic" thingy just prints the line number in hex 21:35:36 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:36:30 hm the nobel prize went to the people who invented the higgs particle, not to any of those who showed it actually existed. i guess that's usual... 21:37:23 although i wonder what they'll do if, as seems inevitable eventually, a theory isn't proved until after all the theorizers are dead... 21:37:55 string theory might end up that way. 21:38:36 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:39:09 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:39:33 they _haven't_ given any nobel prizes for string theory, have they 21:40:24 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 21:41:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:47:21 physicists should be more like biologists, clearly 21:48:20 fizzie: what _does_ kovo mean, originally? (also winsu i guess?) 21:48:41 gt only gives "hardware" 21:48:44 it's funny how people have been pointing out that the 1926 nobel prize went for research that is actually completely wrong 21:50:01 oerjan: is it true that both syllables of "ørjan" are stressed 21:50:28 Bike: um which one 21:51:38 in physiology, i meant 21:51:57 guy got the prize for showing that cancer was caused by this little worm thingie 21:52:40 oh, a nematode, huh 21:53:00 shachaf: hm it's in the second pitch accent, which i guess has the two syllables more "equal" than the first one, although i'm not sure they're completely equal. 21:53:38 oerjan: It's obvious short for "kovalevy" (lit. "hard(sheet/slab/disc/record)"), which properly speaking should mean a kind of a building material (particleboard, fiberboard, HDF; the details are a bit hazy) but is used widely (arguably incorrectly) for a computer hard disk too. (For which the (again arguably) proper word is "kiintolevy".) 21:53:52 oerjan: what, i was told that norwegian was easy 21:54:30 shachaf: to pronounce? 21:54:46 in general 21:55:48 well it's analytic, so not _too_ many inflections, but it does have gender. 21:56:36 so maybe a _little_ harder than english in grammar. not quite as awful spelling. 21:56:59 easier than german grammar. 21:57:01 what!! what is a power series of a language 21:58:23 it's easy enough to take the derivative of a language 21:58:24 so 21:59:17 The Institute (for the Languages (of Finland)) seems to accept "kovalevy" as a synonym of "kiintolevy". But not everyone does. 22:02:12 well kiinto means "solid", so clearly kiintolevy should mean a _solid_ disk, i.e. SSD. 22:02:22 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:02:38 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 22:03:18 oh wait there's no disk in an SSD 22:10:39 17:11:12: fungot: are you antireflective? 22:10:39 17:11:12: boily: extend a protective arm/ symbian/ series60. :p diamondie well, isn't that enough? ummm......what were we talking about again? huh....really? 22:10:39 oerjan: let me guess: it creates the bf programs out there are made from c, java, or python, or ruby.)) 22:10:40 oerjan: invalid syntax define a way to not explicitly call eval? 22:11:02 it tried to reflect, and was repulsed. i'd say yes. 22:11:45 fungot: i'm not sure there are converters from all of those. 22:11:45 oerjan: a windows driver loader thingy? yes, guile itself is slow too.) 22:13:38 oerjan: "levy" does not imply a (round) disc in Finnish, though, and SSD's are generally more or less slab-like, so it still fits. 22:17:24 "SSD-massamuisti" is what fi.wikipedia calls a SSD. 22:17:35 fizzie: good, good. your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to get all finns to follow this more logical terminology. 22:17:58 (And the "D" could be for "drive" too. Though how logical is that?) 22:18:02 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 22:18:59 (not the SSD-massamuisti one) 22:20:01 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:21:35 -!- augur has joined. 22:32:11 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:44:43 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:53:18 this image is just designed to get me to stand my laptop up like a book right <-- ouch my neck 22:54:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:01:35 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:03:12 elliott: eek 23:07:37 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:09:45 > cycle "IT'S ALIVE MWAHAHAHA " 23:09:46 "IT'S ALIVE MWAHAHAHA IT'S ALIVE MWAHAHAHA IT'S ALIVE MWAHAHAHA IT'S ALIVE ... 23:10:19 fungot: are you alive 23:10:19 shachaf: i was talking about /real/ ants. i'll have to take 23:10:34 fungot'll have to take 23:10:34 shachaf: we have mutable fnord, though. that whole code-is-data thing doesn't mean that they do 23:12:32 but for chips and for freedom I could die 23:13:45 fungot: you _don't_ want your fnords to mutate. trust me. 23:13:45 fungot: @quote fungot 23:13:46 oerjan: number42 annotated 308 with " expansion by gambit of previous code" at http://www.common-lisp.net/ paste/ 490 23:13:46 shachaf: just as you don't let on, you're jafar hello, sailor 23:16:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:23:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:32:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:37:25 -!- Bike has joined. 23:48:33 -!- conehead has joined. 2013-10-09: 00:00:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:01:24 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 00:04:11 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:17:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:17:31 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:30:29 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:31:54 wtf rain 00:32:09 fizzie: halp 00:32:59 * oerjan is happy this downpour didn't happen earlier this evening when he was outside 00:34:47 -!- augur has joined. 00:36:11 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 00:37:38 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:38:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:38:16 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:38:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 00:38:17 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:38:39 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:41:17 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:41:37 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 00:42:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:44:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:46:10 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 00:46:47 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:57:49 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 00:59:49 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:03:55 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 01:06:35 -!- shikhin has joined. 01:06:35 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:08:49 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:20:52 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:22:02 -!- shikhin has joined. 01:43:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:49:47 "Stock market crash kills 49" 01:51:41 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:52:28 the US government tends to value human life around $6M - $9M 01:52:46 so if the stock market destroys $500M of value then I guess that's as bad as killing 49 people 01:52:59 of course it's hard to say how much value is really destroyed (or created!) from a huge notional shift in prices 01:53:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sw9Fh6uk4Q 01:54:58 also in a country where your healthcare is tied to your job, it's pretty easy for a stock market crash to directly result in people dying 01:55:34 :( 02:04:21 -!- Bike has joined. 02:25:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:39:05 -!- impomatic has left. 02:51:26 * pikhq has apartment. is good 03:13:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 03:13:39 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:15:46 -!- augur has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:15:53 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 03:17:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:21:37 -!- rodgort` has joined. 03:22:33 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 03:22:34 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 03:22:34 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 03:22:34 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 03:22:34 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 03:22:34 -!- aloril_ has quit (*.net *.split). 03:22:34 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 03:22:35 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 03:24:58 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:25:18 -!- yiyus has joined. 03:25:49 -!- aloril_ has joined. 03:47:02 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:47:57 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:54:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:56:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:03:03 -!- Bike has joined. 05:03:49 In case anyone wants to know what your browser does with https sites with revoked certificates: 05:03:50 https://lavabit.com/?8-oct-2013 05:04:08 Chrome won't let me past 05:19:45 assuming you cannot fake a revocation for someone else (a tall assumption, i know) that seems reasonable - the genuine site owner has no reason to use the old one, so it's essentially _sure_ to be malicious. 05:24:16 -!- ggherdov has joined. 05:26:36 -!- asie has joined. 05:26:40 Huh. 05:27:35 -!- fungot has joined. 05:29:54 -!- asie has quit (Client Quit). 05:30:41 fizzie: what kind of "r" is the finnish one? 05:30:51 I know it rolls, but where 05:31:17 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2071 haha what the christ 05:46:01 I believe it's "officially" an alveolar trill, the plain IPA /r/. I don't know how to describe it in more detail. 05:46:57 http://atashi.org/disorientation/ i feel this sums up my svg experience, somehow 05:47:18 (Have to go, bus to catch.) 05:51:22 Bike: wow 05:51:43 there was a more recent issue (published at Black Hat this year) relating to timing attacks on SVG filters applied to cross-domain iframes 06:04:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:12:53 `olist 923 06:12:57 olist 923: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 06:13:05 Sgeo: Thanks! 06:13:10 yw 06:14:28 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:15:24 -!- aloril_ has joined. 06:16:07 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:17:27 -!- Tefaj has joined. 06:17:57 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:26:40 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:27:43 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:31:33 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 07:03:07 -!- S1 has joined. 07:07:52 Diacritical Marks and Peculiar Characters 07:09:58 Is that a children's book? It sounds like one. 07:10:34 U+115CE SIDDHAM SECTION MARK WITH RAYS AND DOTTED TRIPLE CRESCENTS 07:10:35 http://i.imgur.com/mrT3Aoa.png 07:12:18 new in ISO/IEC 10646:2014 07:12:39 the Universal Character Set 07:12:41 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:14:22 There should be some kind of a project that would extend Unicode (up to some reasonable limit) in all cases where there's e.g. some amount that can vary. For example, the above would immediately lead to SIDDHAM SECTION MARK WITH RAYS AND DOTTED QUADRUPLE CRESCENTS and so on, for (let's say) 1..10 crescents. Both DOTTED and not. 07:15:08 Oh, it exists already. 07:16:06 Oh, it doesn't. It's just the rayless undotted version goes up higher. 07:16:21 Well, there you go, then. All combinations all the time, that's my motto. 07:22:35 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:22:38 >_> 07:31:35 -!- mnoqy has joined. 07:41:12 -!- kmc_ has joined. 07:43:00 is anyone else having trouble accessing EC2 machines and/or http://amazon.com 07:50:27 welp my ISP refuses to talk to amazon for some reason 07:52:37 -!- kmc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:52:49 fuck that guy 07:54:49 imo kmc_ > kmc 07:54:59 :/ 07:55:31 > (compare `on` length) "kmc_" "kmc" 07:55:47 lambdabot more like lambdanot 07:55:55 (the joke is lambdabot is not here) 07:56:37 another joke is that i'm tired 07:56:42 * kmc hugs shachaf 07:59:37 let's see you say that to my face!! 08:00:11 i would... 08:00:25 exactly 08:00:29 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:00:44 should i move to noe valley 08:00:58 hmmmmmmmm 08:01:13 why noe valley in particular? 08:01:27 well, the real question is, why noe 08:01:33 :D 08:02:05 is it a good place "knows nothing about san francisco" 08:03:28 think so 08:14:57 san francisco is a good plac 08:14:58 e 08:15:10 are you looking at an apartment in noe valley 08:15:28 -!- S1 has joined. 08:19:06 i'm not looking at anything right now 08:45:23 -!- S1 has left. 09:11:38 -!- Hyphen-ated has joined. 09:15:59 -!- yorick has joined. 09:23:50 -!- carado has joined. 09:46:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:00:34 -!- S1_ has joined. 10:00:39 -!- S1_ has left. 10:12:48 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:17:42 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:19:46 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:48:51 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:49:00 Hi 10:49:15 I've got an audition this evening 10:53:07 Remember to grip firmly both electrodes of the e-meter. 10:53:33 Oh, audition, not auditing. 10:55:41 The play is apparently a darker version of Jesus Christ Superstar 10:59:02 ????? how can you be darker than jesus christ superstar 10:59:56 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:01:14 I don't know but they have a pretty big budget 11:13:51 Oh yeah! 11:14:00 I was going to ask you guys a question 11:14:37 I've got an algebraic proof that p | (p & q) == p but it is a bit long 11:16:14 Is there a nice short proof? 11:16:45 well, make 2 cases :p 11:17:01 or distibution 11:18:18 I'd rather do it with one case 11:18:29 And my proof with distribution requires ten steps 11:18:33 And I require food, bbl 11:19:03 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:19:20 1: p = true: true | x = true, p | (p & q) = true = p 11:19:48 2. p = false: false | x = x, p | (p & q) = p & q = false & q = false = p 11:21:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:39:13 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:13:51 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:30:45 -!- S1 has joined. 12:34:18 -!- S1 has left. 12:36:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:44:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:45:09 -!- augur has joined. 12:45:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:49:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:52:06 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:01:36 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:24 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:05:23 -!- yorick has changed nick to yorickvp. 13:11:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:18:55 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:20:49 -!- augur has joined. 13:27:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:43:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 13:45:47 -!- carado has joined. 13:51:19 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:54:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:00:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:20:18 kmc: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/10/09/foot_soldier_declares_war_on_sanctimonious_cyclists_dimanno.html "For you to read with a straight face" 14:22:25 i didnt manage 14:22:42 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:23:47 I thought there weren't bike lanes in the big T. 14:26:22 I managed to read that with naught but a single isolated smirl 14:31:57 Phantom_Hoover: can I ~duck smirl? 14:32:23 oh all right 14:32:28 just this once, you understand 14:37:00 -!- conehead has joined. 14:37:16 Taneb, also i started a new fortress on a glacier 14:37:22 :O 14:37:32 so far it's been p. boring so i'm planning on piping the magma sea over it 14:38:37 dunno if i'll have the wood for the reactors though 14:40:44 Phantom_Hoover: thanks! 14:40:46 ~duck smirl 14:40:46 --- No relevant information 14:41:03 * boily kicks ~duck in the duckads. 14:41:22 Phantom_Hoover: use caverns to get wood 14:41:41 there's no coal here either 14:41:44 If you have access to sand you can use three wood to make a screw pump 14:41:54 i'd need steel and a standing military to get into the caverns safely 14:41:55 A magma-safe one, at that 14:42:09 i'm on a glacier, Taneb. 14:42:14 i don't have access to sand 14:42:23 Trade for it? 14:42:42 i have plentiful iron, i'll use that for the pump stack itself 14:43:26 that sounds like a weird crossover between minecraft, DF and catan... 14:43:46 boily: it is, in a 0:1:0 ratio 14:44:40 I need to work on my fortress 14:44:51 But my computer is a couple of miles away 14:45:09 i should've modded anthracite in again... 14:45:18 And I need to practice for my audition in an hour and a half 14:50:25 I need to set an ssh server on my computer and figure out how to get to it from here 14:50:51 Actually, is there any way I could play DF graphically remotely? 14:51:07 Preferably installing as little as possible on the client PC 14:52:02 can you do X11 forwarding with putty? 14:52:07 you could yeah, that 14:52:14 could even use dfhack i guess? 14:52:32 (dfhack is now absolutely mandatory btw, it incorporates a heap of unofficial bugfixes) 14:53:01 dfterm looks promising 14:54:02 dfhack didn't work without x, did it? 14:57:09 Huh, dfterm is written in Haskell 14:57:09 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:57:34 it is, but it spawns df in a new window iirc 14:57:47 ah, dfterm 14:57:48 nvmd 14:58:03 I'll see if I can set that up tonight 14:58:48 not in aur :( 14:59:01 myname, dfhack works on windows and in general works by adding hooks to libSDL, so...? 14:59:24 hm? 14:59:32 i want to play df via ssh 15:01:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:01:55 Windows X servers are the bests. 15:02:19 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 15:02:37 The university had a campus-wide license to one of the proprietary ones, possibly Exceed. Not sure if they still do. 15:02:48 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:04:50 Keep wanting your morning dew...You're my pizza man, my pizza man. I like spastic golden toys. Keep wanting your morning dew... This huge pizza's made with cheese and broccoli! 15:05:00 The lyrics of the best song ever! 15:06:14 Jwinshellow23. 15:06:22 fungot: do you sing? 15:06:22 boily: what's an ircat, i wonder... if i remember what they mean.) poor me. 15:06:39 Yes, i do sing! 15:09:24 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:09:40 Also, I do not like the Python language 15:09:47 I used to, but now I do not 15:10:02 why the falling out? 15:10:35 Because I didn't touch it for like two years and now I am being forced to 15:10:52 ♫♪♩♬♫♪♩♬♫♪♩♬♫♪♩♬♫♪♩♬♫♪♩♬ Everybody sing! 15:10:57 hi 15:11:14 I can cope, but watching the person next to me debug his code only to find that he had mispelt current_converter halfway down is kinda saddening 15:11:25 Also I couldn't figure out how to serialize data 15:12:04 JWinslow23: you should get kmc to form a choir. 15:12:07 Taneb: pickle. 15:12:13 mnelloqy. 15:12:29 boily: the pickle docs are confusing 15:12:38 `quote Pink Floyd 15:12:44 990) and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 15:13:11 Taneb: I know I had to serialize data a long time ago. I completely forgot how I managed that. 15:13:28 -!- asie has joined. 15:14:10 dammit, the logistics in this fortress are way too fucked to get anything done 15:14:57 Taneb: if you don't have no binary blobs, you could use json. otherwise, probably something along the lines of protobufs and/or *gasp* ASN.1. 15:17:29 `help quote 15:17:30 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 15:17:49 `quote Tic Tac Toe 15:17:51 No output. 15:18:00 `quote TicTacToe 15:18:02 No output. 15:18:08 Dang it! 15:20:23 `quote Pink Floyd 15:20:25 990) and then one day you find, ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ♫ ♫ ♫ (Unicode needs a character specifically for "Pink Floyd guitar solo") 15:21:47 building out dfterm3. good thing the sandboxes exist in 1.18. fscking stupid de câl*sse de annoying cabal dependency hell de maudit qu'ils sont pas foutus d'avoir réglé ça messemble que c't'évident. 15:22:30 JWinslow23: is your language specified yet? 15:22:40 Cabal dependency hell it changed the language boily was speaking in 15:23:03 Yes, my language is specified. 15:26:09 aaaaaaaaaaaaaah 15:26:16 Audition in less than an hour 15:27:22 it's only an audition. what can go wrong? (modulo your head suddenly quantum tunneling into an infinity of brainfuck derivatives, but that's easily cured by two Aspirins and a glass of Arcturan mega-water.) 15:28:30 what are you auditioning for 15:29:16 Phantom_Hoover: Jesus Christ Superstar 15:30:25 are you auditioning for jesus christ 15:30:36 I am just auditioning in general 15:30:49 Although I would not mind recieving the role of Jesus Christ 15:31:44 JWinslow23: somewhere public? 15:32:31 Phantom_Hoover: if I get the role will you come to York to watch it 15:32:47 yes (no) 15:32:52 i don't even know where york is 15:33:03 if only you had come to birmingham 15:33:17 Do you know where Hexham is relative to Edinburgh? 15:34:01 Because Edinburgh -> York is twice that vector 15:34:02 y...es 15:34:23 i'm not in edinburgh 15:34:39 Well, do you know where Coventry is relative to Edinburgh? 15:35:24 It's Coventry -> Edinburgh + 2 * Edinburgh -> Hexham 15:36:21 Yes, myname, at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tic_Tac_Toe 15:36:22 hope you like vectors 15:37:17 so, still a bf derivate 15:37:53 wait, york is on the train line i take from coventry to edinburgh 15:38:06 myname: my first language was a bf second derivative 15:38:08 Phantom_Hoover: cool 15:38:20 Don't know how to make a stack-based 8 command language to base it off of. 15:38:47 Anyway, I am going to find the audition room now 15:38:51 D/L/036 15:38:55 JWinslow23, this seems kind of boring 15:39:36 what if you played against some fixed ai or something and its moves corresponded to the executed instructions 15:41:47 Sorry. 15:41:50 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:43:38 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 15:44:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:02:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:03:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:03:25 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:04:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:08:32 -!- asie has joined. 16:08:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:33:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:36:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:37:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:46:20 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:50:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:58:19 back from lunch, and the espresso was manly. 17:13:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:16:52 -!- ^v has joined. 17:21:12 -!- asie has joined. 17:25:45 GNU Make 4.0 is out and it has an embedded Scheme interpreter now: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/make-w32/2013-10/msg00021.html 17:27:31 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:30:16 -!- ^v has joined. 17:31:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:33:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:38:33 `olist 923 17:38:34 olist 923: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 17:39:16 `pastewisdom 17:39:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 17:41:25 @tell oerjan why did you pastold me? (pastelogs + @tell, conflagrated) 17:41:53 oh. no lambda. 17:43:34 o 17:44:37 Gregor: ↑ IEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHGHGHGHGHGHGHHLHLHLHLHLHLHLHLHL! 17:45:03 (that was the Sound of the Stance of the Caribou, the Deadliest Candian-Fu Technique!) 17:50:33 Dahell? 17:50:37 What are you screaming at me about? 17:51:54 ais523: Sgeo already `olisted. 17:52:13 shachaf: yeah but I wasn't here at th time 17:52:14 Maybe we should put something in HackEgo for this case. 17:52:16 Gregor: aren't you the lambdabot channeler, or am I grossly mistaken? 17:52:21 shachaf: I did suggest that last tim 17:52:23 *time 17:52:58 Yes, the emphasis was on "should". Maybe we *should* do that, like you suggested. 17:53:24 But implementing this sort of thing in HackEgo is annoying. 17:54:56 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:55:59 is glogbot working again yet? 17:57:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:08:28 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:09:22 -!- asie has joined. 18:19:42 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:19:59 proggit are criticising GNU Make for adopting != as an assignment operator 18:20:10 I see the logic (= for assignment, ! for shell), but it's still a little amusing 18:20:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:42:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:46:08 Taneb: were you audited? 18:46:39 Aye 18:46:59 Is it weird that I prefer beer from cans to beer from bottles? 18:49:03 it is beer. it doesn't matter. 18:49:57 Taneb: you prefer what you prefer, not much more to it 18:55:01 speaking of beer, two days ago I tried a http://brasseursdumonde.com/portfolio-items/seigneur-noir/. it's one fungot of a powerful beer! 18:55:01 boily: the general trend of it. i find what rms stands for repellant, and so 18:55:19 fungot: sadly, he does repel a lot of people. 18:55:19 boily: man- i don't want to /write/ on a turing machine, i would get some more men! 18:56:07 fungot: to get more men: the ambition of about half the world's population. maybe more than that. 18:56:07 boily: how old are you if i get it. 18:56:14 fungot: I'm 24. 18:56:44 -!- ^v has joined. 18:58:16 fungot: how old are you 18:58:16 shachaf: it's my sadol, functional language 18:58:32 fungot: is that an esolang? also you didn't answer the question 18:58:32 shachaf: i don't really look like a klansman? :) what implementation do you use? is it the same person, at least. :) 19:02:21 fizzie: how old is the fungot? 19:02:22 boily: i see it you could just do some regex magick and replace email addresses with something less readable. 19:02:52 fungot: email addresses are already unparseable enough as they come. 19:02:53 boily: but then again i'm planning to use for searches, or maybe even c) but that is the xml family of standards, many of the more direct translation of lambda calculus 19:03:16 xml and lambda calculus... now that is an interesting idea. 19:06:13 XSΛT 19:11:12 boily: 19:11:12 [2008-08-14 11:42:44] ... fungot [n=fungot@qeq4.kyla.fi] has joined #esoteric 19:11:13 [2008-08-14 11:43:49] < fungot> Hello. I'm a silly bot written in Funge-98, using the STRN, SOCK and FGRN fingerprints, running under RC/Funge-98. 19:11:13 fizzie: yes, but is never used. right? doing it the wrong way 19:11:13 fizzie: does a difference of fnord and springs with bullets shooting them at different frequencies when struck, iirc. 19:11:41 fungot: you are used. all the time. 19:11:41 olsner: can you give me more bandwidth or i'll read /dev/ fnord /dev/ kmem 19:11:54 fungot: ask fizzie :) 19:11:55 olsner: corba is really easy to use. in code like that published in a finnish newspaper. i didn't believe that, with huge gaps in numbering now and then 19:12:13 fungot: That makes it sound like you're going to hack out of your box. 19:12:13 fizzie: a thermal camera would be nice if one could these days rely on gcc's tco 19:12:46 fungot: I'm not going to buy you a thermal camera. 19:12:47 fizzie: to continue off topic, but for the offensive language, constant references to buggery and grain alcohol... 19:12:58 fungot: Or booze. 19:12:58 fizzie: for being irish sounding like a good idea. that happens when you plug a cat into the kitchen, to watch him argue with a lisper. 19:13:08 dd if=/dev/fnord of=/dev/kmem 19:14:17 fungot: it's generally not considered nice to fnord kmem, btw 19:14:18 olsner: ( sorry to mention the commonwealth they tend to like descriptive programs 19:14:46 fungot: You don't even have any soft bandwidth caps, and getting a fatter pipe would cost more money. 19:14:46 fizzie: well deewiant thinks the jump in subr should not be multiplied beyond necessity. william of occam 19:14:47 fungot: we of the commonwealth are descriptive, eh? 19:14:47 boily: i was gonna bundle up in srfi form fnord." on the usenet, it's called tv. 3 for two seconds before i can try 19:25:10 fungot: are you of the Dectrip Faith, by any chance? 19:25:10 boily: did al or oleg write one? 19:25:25 fungot: don't think so, but you never know with the Gropagas. 19:25:25 boily: consider that nested combination again. :( 19:25:39 fungot: oooooh, I see. subtle. very subtle. 19:25:40 boily: it's a concatenative ( aka stack based) languages that allow keyword arguments require that they go to the quechua class anymore. /me going to find a hungarian restaurant 19:26:06 fungot, I love you. 19:31:39 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:33:12 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:35:51 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:49:14 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:52:40 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:32:37 'I asked some Chromium guys how much of the Pepper API the Flash Pepper plugin used. Their answer was literally "150%."' 20:33:24 haha 20:47:05 is anything except chromium adopting that pepper api thing? 20:47:34 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:49:30 no 20:49:44 it's basically a bunch of chromium internals exposed as an API 20:50:08 so it would be hard for e.g. Firefox to adopt it, and this means we can't implement NaCl either 20:50:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:50:32 oh, is NaCl based on/related to pepper? 20:51:09 yep, when code running in NaCl wants to talk to the browser / the outside world, it uses Pepper 20:51:13 salt and pepper 20:52:37 so pepper is like the system API and NaCl is the runtime/compiler? 20:52:43 yeah 20:52:59 anyway some people (disclaimer: i'm not speaking officially on behalf of mozilla {corporation,foundation}, blah blah blah) see Google pushing NaCl over asm.js as an anti-competitive anti-open-web vendor-lockin dick move 20:53:19 that said, there is https://github.com/google/pepper.js 20:53:36 kmc: do people often assume you're speaking officially on behalf of mozilla? 20:53:36 which will compile NaCl code that calls Pepper APIs into asm.js JavaScript that calls the standard Web APIs 20:53:54 ais523: no but it seems a prudent disclaimer because I am employed by Mozilla Corporation 20:53:57 right 20:54:15 anyway I don't know how complete pepper.js is; it certainly sounds like it's not enough to run Flash 20:54:38 but mozilla has a way better solution for Flash in the works, which is just to reimplement it in JavaScript 20:54:51 http://mozilla.github.io/shumway/ 20:54:59 it's in FF nightlies now I believe 20:55:01 behind a flag 20:55:14 how does its performance compare on like, flash games and animations? 20:55:29 yeah, the thing about /this/ Flash replacement is that apparently it's backed by a large enough organization that it might actually succeed 20:55:35 yeah, unlike Gnash 20:56:10 also it reimplements Flash on top of an open standard and a memory safe language 20:56:13 which is cool 20:56:28 I don't think GNU have the resources/momentum to do really any more really large projects 20:56:33 Fiora: I don't have numbers, but I saw a live demo last week and it was silky smooth on some real games 20:56:41 I don't know how cherry-picked the set of games was 20:56:48 they struggle to keep both gcc and Emacs under control, and Hurd isn't really going anywhere 20:57:29 and I don't know how it does on video (eg YouTube), but I think that shouldn't be hard perf-wise, since you would just send it through to the same code paths that handle