00:00:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:03:17 `unidecode ⸮ 00:03:21 ​[U+2E2E REVERSED QUESTION MARK] 00:05:41 dogs are great 00:05:48 that one dog tried to play mölkky with us 00:05:51 but he didn't know the rules 00:06:08 maybe we should have switched to playing dog-mölkky 00:06:10 is mölkky that stick-throwing game? 00:06:12 yes 00:06:35 dogs like stick-throwing games, I think 00:07:43 yes 00:09:06 dölkky sounds like a more fun game anyway 00:09:26 what ghci has instance Monad (-> x) without doing any imports? 00:09:33 um 00:09:37 no ghci at all 00:09:41 *((->) x) 00:09:45 ghci 7.6 00:09:55 yes that's what i have 00:09:57 not sure about 7.4 00:10:51 kmc: we should play mölkky again sometime 00:11:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:12:05 yes 00:12:46 it's trouble to carry around, though :'( 00:12:49 yes 00:12:55 so heavy 00:13:01 such mass 00:13:02 probably Pointless Topology should buy one 00:13:04 wow 00:13:36 or I could make one 00:13:50 do it 00:16:19 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:17:09 maybe we can play when you're in mv 00:17:17 maybe 00:18:12 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:21:41 -!- Bike has joined. 00:21:48 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:22:25 Fiora: https://twitter.com/mc_hankins/status/396757476558643200/photo/1 00:22:59 There was an article in some local paper on how mölkky is becoming more popular abroad, and that already only a small fraction of the sets are sold in Finland. 00:23:20 SF 22 BS SS SB MB BW BG SM HP HD BL SQ RC AT MP PA CA SA MV SV LW SC CP SJ TM CL BH MH ST GR 00:24:20 yeah 00:24:51 verily 00:24:58 only a fraction of all people are born in finland 00:25:47 Yes, but it's a game with such a Finnish name. 00:26:55 And there's a number of "throw things at other things" games already, wouldn't think people need to import one from here. 00:27:31 http://yle.fi/uutiset/molkyn_menestys_antaa_toita_sadoille/6911296 there 00:28:31 "In little endian is every thing we load into memory is in reverse order ?" :( 00:29:25 fizzie: don't worry, we weren't pronouncing it correctly 00:35:22 https://twitter.com/ibogost/status/396797423714336768/photo/1/large an interesting spin on "lol vintage internet" 00:41:06 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:41:17 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131103-twitter.jpg <- a twitter picture 00:43:46 shachaf: can newtype F x y a = F ((a -> x) -> y) be Distributable for any x, y 00:44:32 my brain tried to find a general instance but i think it short-circuited 00:44:58 (i assume there shouldn't be one) 01:12:00 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:13:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:18:59 People complain yesterday about "int* p" and "int *p" and "char* *argv" in C codes. I just write "int*p" because the other way both have problems 01:19:04 ?messages 01:19:15 ?messages 01:19:16 You don't have any messages 01:21:00 zzo38 !! 01:21:04 what are the haps my friend 01:22:21 I was designing a computer game in QBASIC called "Savant's Maze" (on a different computer with DOS, not this one). It is roguelike game and you start in the basement and have to reach the top floor. 01:26:03 So far I have line of view made up, message buffer, save games, movement, and there is some different terrains including windows, water, fog (you cannot see very well), broken glass, traps, stairs, etc. 01:26:08 Maybe you have some idea too. 01:30:31 -!- realz has joined. 01:32:55 @ask bike i'm just hoping this somehow ends with murdoch getting punched in the face. <-- by prince harry? 01:32:56 Consider it noted. 01:33:25 In here the daylight saving time is stopped tomorrow. 01:34:10 both north america and europe seem to change on nights before sundays, although different ones. 01:36:14 No, it is Sunday, just early before most people would wake up. 01:36:35 I just stay awake until that time, or else sleep and wake up before that time, to change the clocks that won't automatically change. 01:41:58 if you stay up all night to implement daylight saving time... I think something's wrong :) 01:43:25 Yes, daylight saving time is bad. 01:49:24 Bike: omg, "region of declining hope" 01:57:41 zzo38: i think Koen_ is implying that you're working too hard to keep the clocks correct if you are waking up for the purpose of changing them. 01:57:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:10 I'm not implying, I'm demonstrating 02:01:48 -!- tswett_q has joined. 02:03:10 Hi guys. So this is the nick I'm going to use when I'm not here. 02:03:25 paradox! 02:04:02 good night 02:04:06 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:04:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: No route to host). 02:05:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:08:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 02:10:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 02:10:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:13:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 02:14:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:25:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:26:34 I use this nick when I'm not at the computer. I also use this nick when I am at the computer. 02:26:38 No paradox 02:26:46 pair o' docs 02:27:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:29:23 he is a disgruntled ophthalmologist with ironically horrible eyesight. she is a brain surgeon with a dark secret. they fight crime! 02:42:31 That's... not ironic in the slightest. 02:42:40 ꙮpthalmꙮlogist 02:42:52 band name 02:49:38 ok then. 02:54:02 -!- lmt has joined. 02:54:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:50 -!- lmt has left. 02:54:52 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:55:45 he is a melancholic polycythemia researcher with ironically low hemoglobin values. she is a cardiologist with a heart of gold. they fight crime! 03:02:20 `unidecode ꙮpthalmꙮ 03:02:22 ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] [U+0070 LATIN SMALL LETTER P] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] 03:02:43 hmph 03:13:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:26:09 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:38:26 oerjan: You mean instance Distributive (F x y)? 03:40:10 yes 03:40:43 I agree there shouldn't be one. 03:40:46 or possibly instance Distributive (F X Y) for X and Y some specific types 03:41:21 Well, maybe X=Y=() or something. 03:41:25 Actually, no. 03:41:47 i was thinking about this to see if there were any counterexamples to your Distributive always has Representable theory 03:42:17 It's edwardk's theory, you should ask him in #-lens. 03:42:23 ah. 03:59:50 -lens is the channel to be in, I hear. 04:10:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:28:00 fiora: «We tried EVERYTHING: "just failed to reach statistical significance after log transformation (p<0.07) or non-parametric analysis (p<0.06)» the saga continues 04:28:18 oerjan: optional 04:29:56 Bike: wat 04:30:43 the notes the notes the notes 04:31:03 * oerjan doesn't remember what this is about. 04:32:02 I made the mistake of upgrading to Windows 8.1. There's apparently a bug that means you can no longer turn off spelling autocorrection. 04:32:42 "not very definitely significant from the statistical point of view (p=0.08)" i'm never gonna get tired of this 04:41:14 Fortunately it doesn't affect pasting from gvim. 04:42:13 Still has all the red squiggles though. 04:48:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:58:28 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:12:31 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:20:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 05:26:01 -!- ^v has joined. 05:27:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:37:52 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 05:38:22 Will they fix that buf? 05:38:31 Do you know how to workaround somehow? 05:39:11 well my current workaround is to write in vim and paste. 05:39:34 But is there some workaround involving editing the registry or the files dealing with spelling corrections? 05:40:15 i think windows 8.1 is too new for the fixes to have shown up. 05:40:31 -!- shikhin has joined. 05:40:51 the thing is, in the settings it _looks_ like the setting has been changed, but programs (apps and IE) ignore it. 05:41:52 Did you look in the registry? 05:41:53 there was an old method someone gave for disabling it in 8.0, which involved renaming the dll's. although i also saw a comment that this slowed things down. 05:42:23 no i haven't. i'm not going to mess with things without guidance. 05:42:41 Looking in it, without changing it, shouldn't damage it. 05:50:08 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:58:23 such rsa 05:58:25 so exponent 05:59:21 much primes 05:59:33 many modulus 05:59:52 wow 05:59:52 different people i know get into memes at different times and it freaks me out, man 05:59:58 haha 06:00:06 Bike: pretty sure I'm on the trailing edge 06:00:15 for this one yeah 06:00:22 i mean hey that's respectable 06:02:53 is it though 06:03:25 well. no. it's not. i don't respect it 06:03:33 i respect no meme! 06:21:03 yo meme so fat 06:21:16 yo oerjan 06:21:18 yoerjan 06:21:49 yachaf 06:22:25 some day we're going to hit a word in this way that's a grievous insult in hebrew. 06:22:44 or english 06:22:59 or norwegian?? 06:23:03 don't be ridiculous. 06:23:15 which part is ridiculous 06:23:58 you are. 06:24:13 food -> 06:24:15 well i never! 06:26:25 such doge 06:26:26 so meme 06:26:46 many doge at the park today 06:26:54 much cute 06:26:57 wow 06:26:58 :) 06:27:20 did they all have internal monologue in broken english and rainbow comic sans 06:27:20 did you play with a doge 06:27:34 no :'( 06:27:51 and no one was playing mölkky 06:28:37 though people were throwing balls 06:29:06 dogs become unreasonably enthusiastic and excited about balls being thrown 06:29:14 have i even ever been that excited about anything 06:29:26 i am a failure compared to doge :'( 06:30:02 :/ 06:30:37 http://web.stagram.com/p/521355034383093782_31874355 06:30:44 no mölkky today, my doge has run away... 06:30:53 looks like a recipe for disaster imo 06:31:20 `translate en fi dog 06:31:24 This google api no longer exists. 06:32:15 ask tswett_q i think he was all about finnish dogs once 06:35:06 perhaps there are no finnish dogs 06:35:18 if you slur shachaf just enough it can sound like en:shut up or perhaps even no:kjeften which basically means the same thing. 06:35:23 that would explain the invention of mölkky 06:35:38 oerjan: don't slur me :'( 06:35:50 sha'uff! 06:35:56 ø_ø 06:36:23 shachaf: well that stagram link _did_ seem to claim their existence. 06:36:45 maybe they were imported later 06:37:05 (i have been pointed out that orja is finnish for slave, although i don't think they use that as a slur much) 06:38:29 Do you know "Psychological JuJitsu" card game? I have implemented it in ifMUD. 06:39:36 oerjan: perhaps a dog exists but is unique 06:40:10 shachaf: the link had two. 06:40:22 curse you, link 06:40:40 here's a search result for «mölkky koira»: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zdMZ7N1U7I 06:40:53 it should clear things up 06:42:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:47:44 that had a severe shortage of mölkky, and i didn't pay attention to whether where any dogs since koira was clearly part of the band name. 06:48:20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karri_Koira 06:48:33 *+there were 06:48:47 "Heini Strand of Rumba gave the album four out of five stars saying that the album is great material for making out" 06:48:48 i know. disappointing 06:48:49 *-were 06:49:45 kmc: that is, after all, the primary purpose of an album 06:49:57 what was the other star for 06:51:06 oh wait 06:51:09 **-where 06:51:36 oerjan: ? 06:52:02 the second star should have been *-where 06:52:59 stars are difficult 06:53:05 or it could have been the more elegant, yet even more confusing *-+ 06:55:06 ★± 06:59:19 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 07:09:23 @src iterate 07:09:23 iterate f x = x : iterate f (f x) 07:11:56 -!- asie has joined. 07:11:57 cofree comonad imo 07:19:39 the mozilla developer guide thing is super helpful 07:19:53 07:19:56 fucking art imo 07:24:10 -!- carado has joined. 07:24:11 shachaf: what do you think about making out 07:25:31 "JavaScript event handling is single-threaded, so handlers are executed sequentially." is this like, actually true 07:25:35 yes 07:25:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:26:04 in existing browser engines all JavaScript (including iframes) runs in a single thread and alternates with layout work on the same thread 07:26:11 (all for a single tab, I mean) 07:26:12 which is terrible 07:26:16 well i mean, is it required 07:26:20 and that's something we're trying to fix with Servo 07:26:29 but there are limits to what we can do because it's part of the platform spec 07:26:30 Bike: yes 07:26:36 huh. why? 07:26:55 Bike: JS doesn't have any kind of thread synchronization primitives built in, so if you allowed concurrent event handlers, there would be no way to make them race-free 07:27:22 but anyway there's 15 years worth of legacy javascript code which assumes no concurrency 07:27:25 ah, hm... still that seems like a limitation to me. maybe i'm being naive 07:27:44 you can now do concurrency in a limited sense, with web workers, but they can't touch the DOM or handle events 07:28:09 "Please recall that HTML-tag attribute names are case-insensitive, so oNcLiCk will work same as onClick or onclick" a lot of this advice seems like stuff i should be pretty skeptical of. just like every other time i've learned a programming language :/ 07:30:41 kmc: no particular opinions 07:31:30 ok 07:38:24 * kmc usually doesn't have musical accompanyment, though 07:38:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Adagio). 07:44:40 browsers are so amazing. it almost seems like a shame to have them so internet-oriented 07:45:30 imo browsers should be oriented to writing browsers 07:45:41 "the primary activity browser writers care about" 07:45:50 imo write your own browser in HTML/CSS/JS 07:46:03 market it as 'web compatible' 07:46:18 also really? 07:46:31 yeah. (as an example of what not to do) 07:46:36 my six language polyglot is more reasonable than that 07:46:36 oh 07:46:43 well, ok 07:46:50 of course as soon as i looked at a less reputable tutorial's source it had exactly that -_- 07:48:21 Bike: wasn't that the only backwards compatible way of doing it 07:48:38 (i think maybe it needs to be on three lines or something, i don't know 07:48:52 yeah i didn't feel like doing that. 07:52:12 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Quit: Uguubee1111110). 07:54:37 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 08:13:51 Bike: isn't it case insensitive in HTML4 08:13:57 but not in HTML5? 08:14:11 or it's case insensitive in some browsers but not in others 08:15:12 i'd liketo say it's the former but it's probably the latter too somehow 08:15:37 hm 08:15:41 google research is useless 08:15:45 looks like html is case insensitive but xml is not. 08:15:54 everyone seems to have a different opinion about the case sensitivity of attributes 08:16:01 Bike: Ah. Yes 08:16:05 well i was looking at w3, so. 08:16:07 XHtml 08:16:10 ok 08:16:18 anyway i was starting from 'oNcLiCk is a really shitty name' 08:16:22 onClick works in HTML4 but not in XHtml 08:17:06 ONcLICK 08:17:23 is called when the user licks the touchscreen 08:17:35 (if any) 08:30:43 Is there some simple way to wire something to composite video signals to make them appear in grayscale? 08:42:45 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:19:34 Web Workers and Canvas Proxies. 09:26:47 are there approaches on how to compile low-level language to CIL/CLR? 09:26:51 or Java Byte Code 09:27:08 specifically the whole pointery stuff 09:28:51 One honking byte[] and pointers as indices to that. 09:29:06 (That's what Emscripten does, to compile C to JS.) 09:29:32 yeah 09:29:41 but that probably does not work for function pointers? 09:30:53 although 09:31:00 you can probably special treat function pointers 09:31:18 unless you use (void*) 09:31:29 which would loose the information that it was a function pointer 09:31:48 Speaking from a C perspective, if they're still indices to something, it wouldn't really matter. 09:32:05 You'd need to convert it back to a function pointer for calling, at which point it'd get back that information. 09:33:22 well yes 09:33:34 but you can't call javascript functions through an adress? 09:33:54 You'd have a table of functions. Function pointers would be indices to that. 09:34:08 ah 09:34:11 ok 09:34:12 I see 09:35:11 same for variables probably 09:35:24 i.e the address of a local variable 09:35:25 like 09:35:33 Anyway, if you compiled to a single Java bytecode method, you could use actual opcode offsets -- but that approach has at least two major problems: there's a 64k size limit for a function, and the bytecode verifier is going to insist on all kinds of things hard to satisfy. (I looked at this a bit for a Befunge-to-JVM thing where I wanted to use the native JVM stack as the Befunge stack.) 09:36:17 yeah 09:36:32 my source language requires you to be able to goto from one function in another 09:36:35 and stuff like that 09:36:43 which is not really easy to translate to other languages :) 09:36:51 because most don't allow that. 09:36:56 not even C 09:37:51 inline asm? 09:39:15 It might "work" for the single-JVM-method case (since you can do local jumps there), assuming you can satisfy the verifier, which might be tricky. (It e.g. insists that all possible paths to reach a particular instruction must provably have the same stack effect in terms of number of pushes and pops, which really didn't work for the Befunge case.) 09:40:01 (And then there's that size limit.) 09:40:49 befunge to jvm sounds like an awesome idea 09:41:30 I kind of abandoned the idea when it turned out the native stack wouldn't work, because using a separate object for the stack sounded so lame. 09:46:35 well 09:46:45 I could disect stuff into functions 09:46:54 i.e a label would be another function 09:47:08 like int main() { .... foo: ... } would split into 09:47:15 two functions 09:55:07 Assuming arbitrary jumps, then you'll need some kind of a thing to handle the otherwise-growing stack. 09:55:17 (There's no tail calls in the JVM.) 09:56:41 There's always trampolining, of course. 10:07:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:20:33 well 10:20:43 jumping to another function is a really bad idea anyway 10:21:18 the only reason it is even possible is because I did not want to introduce scoping rules 10:21:23 so labels are globally visible 10:21:43 but I just might say jumping into another function is copmiler dependant behaviour 10:23:16 because that's what it actually is anyway 10:27:59 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:31:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:34:52 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:45:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:10:45 -!- Froox has joined. 11:13:18 -!- Froox has quit (Client Quit). 11:13:24 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 11:13:40 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:20:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:24:59 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:25:15 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:29:58 -!- Frooxius has quit (Client Quit). 11:30:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:33:57 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:37:11 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 11:37:11 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:39:57 -!- yorick has joined. 11:41:16 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:45:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:04:14 hm 12:04:20 when exactly is extern needed for C functions 12:04:35 you can refer to C functions in other compilation units without extern 12:04:53 i.e -c foo.o ... -c foo1.o and just link it together 12:04:55 without using extern 12:11:45 It's the default for functions. 12:12:10 "If a declaration of an identifier for a function has no storage-class specifier, its linkage is determined exactly as if it were declared with the storage-class specifier extern." 12:12:39 You do need it for declarations of objects in header files, because otherwise those turn into definitions for each translation unit, and then you've got multiple copies and the linker will complain. 12:16:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:19:40 Oh, I didn't notice the question was specifically for functions. I guess "never", then, since having no storage class specifiers is entirely equivalent. 12:29:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:40:08 fizzie: I'm also guessing "never" 12:40:25 but I'm not 100% sure there is an edgecase where extern is needed for functions too 12:40:29 *if 12:41:30 I don't think there were any qualifiers for the statement I quoted. 12:43:12 maybe shared objects? 12:45:14 ok 12:46:53 fizzie: wouldn't modifiability of fungespace be a bigger problem for a befunge-to-JVM compiler? 12:48:56 FireFly: Maybe, but that's a problem for a befunge-to-anything compiler and not for a befunge-to-JVM compiler in particular. 12:49:10 what's fungespace? 12:49:14 is that the code? 12:49:17 Yes. 12:49:17 Yes 12:49:18 or where the code is located 12:49:19 ah 12:49:20 ok 12:49:44 (It's possible I was thinking of writing an interpreter, anyway. I don't remember the details, just that I wanted JVM stack == befunge stack.) 12:50:10 can't you compile each instruction as a fixed block of code 12:50:14 and then replace those blocks 12:50:36 That's essentially a threaded-code interpreter. 12:50:39 i.e transfroming the 2D space into a 1D space 12:51:02 should be fairly possible 12:51:08 maybe a bit inefficient 12:51:17 mroman: and if you put after the end of a line? 12:51:52 h 12:52:53 Anyway, you can certainly JIT befunge. 12:53:20 It's just slightly tricky tracking what all needs to be invalidated when the fungespace changes. 12:54:05 (If you treat each instruction as a single block, so that they're easy to replace, you can't e.g. constant-fold across the blocks, which makes the whole act of "compiling" it a bit pointless.) 12:55:52 fungot: Do you have any self-modifying code in you at all, anyway? 12:55:52 fizzie: sarahbot, yow")" to make writing a bf interp 12:56:05 (Spoiler: not really, discounting things like ^reload.) 12:56:39 I have somewhere an ahead-of-time Befunge(-to-LLVM, I think) compiler that's complete enough to compile and run fungot. 12:56:39 fizzie: if they meant it seriously, though. ( foo 1) to have x in the second 12:57:13 (Doesn't do any tracking of fungespace modification.) 12:58:41 Though self-modification is not the only problem for static compilation. You can't necessarily tell the code flow in advance, either, if there's something like &&x in the code. 12:59:02 (That's "read two integers from standard input and set the IP delta to that vector".) 13:01:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:31:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:02:09 -!- tertu has joined. 14:09:49 so I'm trying to compile Chris Pressey's mascarpone interpreter in haskell, using ghc. the error message is " Could not find module `System' It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'.". should I explicitely tell ghc how to include this System module? 14:10:14 -XHaskell98? 14:11:13 nope, doesn't work either 14:18:51 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:19:08 -!- tertu has joined. 14:28:51 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 14:39:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:43:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:55:38 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:58:34 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 14:59:24 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:59:42 -!- tertu has joined. 15:08:13 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Quit: Uguubee1111110). 15:10:45 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 15:33:51 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:35:16 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:43:36 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:51:12 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:53:42 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 15:59:23 -!- conehead has joined. 16:05:15 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:09:06 elliott: the only common thread I can see in our latest spambot rash, apart from the content of their posts (which I can't block unless abusefilter starts working again), is that they all claim to be using IE6 16:09:09 can we just block IE6? :) 16:09:48 jesus, do people still use ie6 16:09:56 we'll lose the east asian market 16:09:59 -!- Yonkie has quit. 16:10:40 fizzie: who needs constant folding anyway 16:10:47 my compiler produces for 3 + 5 16:11:10 load32 r0, 3; push r0; load32 r0, 5; push r0; pop r1; pop r0; add r0, r0, r1; push r0; 16:11:13 :) 16:11:15 Bike: I don't know if the spambots are actually using IE6, or just pretending 16:11:23 based on the homogeneity of the user agent, I'd say it's faked 16:12:04 ais523: Then perhaps program it so that if the user agent string specifies IE6, it enables things that won't work if it isn't really IE6 16:12:31 zzo38: hmm, interesting, but also probably quite timeconsuming 16:12:59 mroman: What compiler is that? What programming language? 16:15:28 jesus, when did chrome become the top browser 16:17:49 zzo38: My pre-bachelor thesis is an developping an imaginary computer architecture 16:17:54 -an 16:18:00 and an emulator for that architecture 16:18:26 but I came to the point where I did not want to write a line of assembler code anymore 16:18:32 so I started writing a complire 16:18:39 for my simple language :) 16:18:49 http://mroman.ch/va/rlmmu_simple.html <- that language 16:18:51 And it looks like not a very good compiler 16:19:24 indeed 16:19:30 it's a working compiler 16:19:40 it produces code for a stack machine with two registers 16:19:48 which my architecture is totally not 16:19:55 my arch has 16 registers :) 16:20:07 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 16:20:39 Even for a machine with only two registers it looks like a bad code. 16:20:43 zzo38: Yes 16:20:54 But I don't have the time to write a sophisticated compiler and emulator 16:21:02 so one of them is just quick'n'dirty 16:21:06 Not having constant folding isn't the only problem. 16:21:07 it produces working code 16:21:11 that's good enough for me 16:21:14 zzo38: I know 16:21:21 it even produces push r0; pop r0; blocks 16:21:23 etc. 16:21:32 and push r0; pop r1; can be optimizied to mov r1, r0; 16:21:33 etc. 16:21:55 -!- ^v has joined. 16:22:06 zzo38: You are very welcome to write a better compiler 16:22:09 you can even target x86 16:22:10 :) 16:22:18 That's what I plan to do anyway 16:22:24 if semester's over 16:22:29 write an x86 codegen for it 16:37:55 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:53:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:53:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Changing host). 16:53:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:55:20 I wanted to make up some simple computer architecture which is mostly like other ones that GCC already support and can be programmed in a FPGA, and modified to the application in use 16:55:25 zzo38: Writing a gcc backend would have been too much work 16:56:05 mroman: Yes, I know that is why I wanted to make one up that GCC can already compile into 16:57:52 I was thinking of ARM2 but maybe there is something better 17:00:17 Many implementations seem to be optimized and might make it difficult to predict how many clock cycles some sequence of instructions requires. If removing such thing would make it too slow, one work-around is to add an instruction to wait until a number of clock cycles have passed since the previous marker. 17:07:11 ULESSTHANOREQUAL 17:07:13 ok 17:07:20 that sound's like a reasonable mnemonic 17:07:40 Such thing looks like long to me 17:07:47 yes 17:07:53 ADD foo, bar 17:07:57 ULESSTHANOREQUAL foo, bar 17:08:00 Verity uses <= for unsigned less-than-or-equal-to, +<= for the signed version 17:08:02 that just looks crazy as fuck 17:08:12 but then, its operators are made out of sequences of punctuation marks 17:08:49 Not bad, having a separate unsigned and signed operators, if you aren't specifying by the type like how C does. 17:09:16 zzo38: I decided separate signed and unsigned operators made more sense than separate signed and unsigned types 17:09:42 ais523: Ah, OK. What is that though? 17:10:08 zzo38: some operators like + and - use two's complement in Verity so it doesn't matter whether they're signed or unsigned 17:10:13 and it doesn't have division 17:10:26 Yes, that makes sense for + and - 17:10:32 what's verity? 17:10:37 for relational operators I have separate signed/unsigned values 17:10:49 mroman: mostly non-eso language I was paid to work on for my job 17:10:52 as in, I was paid to invent it 17:10:57 oh 17:10:57 ok 17:11:02 http://www.veritygos.org/ 17:11:12 I went for seperate signed/unsigned operators too 17:11:18 Why did you need to invent it? 17:11:21 since I don't have the type system 17:11:29 to distinguish it else 17:12:05 http://www.veritygos.org/documentation 17:12:17 too lazy for real html ;P? 17:12:22 zzo38: because there were no variants of Algol 60 specialised for reconfigurable hardware, oddly enough 17:12:29 mroman: I'm not responsible for the website 17:12:47 they asked for documentation in plaintext 17:12:53 I wrote it in markdown, on the basis that it looks much the same 17:12:58 -!- asie has joined. 17:13:10 IMO the only good use for markdown is to write markup in a way that looks like plaintext 17:13:13 but it's good at taht 17:13:15 *that 17:13:31 ais523: That is not bad, now you can load it in any program even if not having web browser, but you can also convert it to HTML if you prefer. 17:14:21 can you dumb it down for me 17:14:24 what's verity for? 17:14:41 a language that describes hardware? 17:14:58 or what do you mean by hardware synthesis? 17:15:32 mroman: it's a language designed to be similar to the sort of functional languages people normally use to program software, but it's restricted such that it compiles into hardware well 17:15:51 whereas most hardware development's done using languages like VHDL that are very unfamiliar 17:16:04 Ah, that seems like a proper reason to me. 17:16:41 (I still think that isn't the best way to program hardware, but it could be helpful if you want to write an emulator for the hardware, maybe) 17:18:02 There are a lot of other hardware programming languages too although I don't really think any of them are perfect so I tried to make up a new one, too 17:18:58 you mean like brainfuck and verilog? 17:19:01 what else is there? 17:19:29 Brainfuck isn't hardware programming language. There is Verilog, there is also VHDL, and several others (see Wikipedia), and I partially made up a documentation for my own. 17:19:51 well 17:19:59 let me grab me brainfuck 2 vhdl thingy 17:20:02 if I can still find it 17:20:07 *my 17:21:21 My own hardware programming language is http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/hwpl.txt 17:21:36 There are still some things missing; if you know about hardware programming maybe you can help to fix it? 17:24:01 Well... I know VHDL 17:24:05 that's as much as there is :) 17:24:31 Do you know anything about designing it with discrete logic components? 17:24:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:24:51 I know some things about Verilog and find some things it has are not very good for hardware design 17:24:56 You mean like FlipFlops, XOR, AND Gates etc? 17:24:58 Latches? 17:25:03 Yes. 17:25:23 Yeah 17:25:36 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:26:16 That's what I'd actually expect from a VHDL/verilog programmer 17:26:26 that he knows how he could synthesize basic vhdl programm by hand 17:26:32 *programms 17:26:48 Do you understand this document of HWPL? 17:27:27 someone should make a prolog2vhdl compiler 17:27:43 -!- njm has changed nick to utopian. 17:28:10 zzo38: I haven't completely read it yet 17:28:14 but from fastly reading through it 17:28:22 looks understandable :) 17:28:34 Do you notice anything that might be wrong with it? 17:29:56 what do you understand under "running result"? 17:30:25 Can you be specific? 17:30:35 what does append do? 17:30:39 APPEND vec 17:31:06 In a function, the "running result" is initially an empty vector. 17:31:36 ah ok 17:32:30 I am not sure how I should make that more clear in the documentation. 17:33:45 Is there anything that could be improved, is missing, etc? 17:34:35 This HWPL is not like VHDL, right? 17:34:48 You don't program the hardware on the level like you do in VHDL? 17:34:55 Correct, it isn't VHDL or Verilog or whatever. 17:35:11 I don't actually know much of VHDL, but I know some things about Verilog. 17:35:20 So you build components and wire them together 17:35:26 and wait for raising edges etc 17:35:29 There are some similarities to Verilog but not quite. 17:35:30 *don't build 17:35:58 although you do have a DELAY function 17:36:11 In HWPL you would write what is connected to what and what registers are updated on rising edges and so on, or write macros that will create these things for you. 17:36:20 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 17:36:40 At runtime, the only type is a bit vector; other types only exist at compiletime. 17:36:59 That makes sense 17:37:32 FOR loops and stuff are executed at compile time; so are IF, LET, SPLIT, and so on. 17:37:54 (If you want run time conditions you need to use WHEN instead of IF.) 17:40:00 I assume DELAY is only for simulation? 17:40:56 Unlike in Verilog, no. A hardware compiler may also move things around so that things have higher or lower delays, or provide an error message or warning message if it cannot use the given delay. 17:41:44 I'd expect the hardware compiler to calculate timings etc 17:41:58 I.e you obviously can't clock stuff as high as you want :) 17:42:22 or your flipflops will get meta-stable :) 17:43:28 Well, yes, there is an inherent delay, but if the externally visible delay is shorter than the fastest clock speed (which might depend on the program) then it is OK anyways. 17:45:41 The DELAY function is provided if you want to make it slower or if you want to force certain hardware constraints such as in order to more accurately emulate other hardware, or possibly to avoid race conditions in a few cases. 17:45:42 TRIGGER only works for rising edges 17:45:44 not falling? 17:46:00 mroman: Yes. If you want falling, put ~ in front of the signal. 17:46:07 ah 17:46:11 so TRIGGER ~vec? 17:46:19 k. 17:46:30 Yes. 17:46:48 oh 17:46:52 I can use expressinos there 17:46:52 ok 17:47:34 Expressions are allowed in most places where you can have a vector. 17:48:16 Do I have to declare POWER and GROUND? 17:48:26 That's usually something you don't really worry about. 17:49:02 No, it is usually not necessary. 17:49:29 (Some compilers might not even support it.) 17:49:42 (It is provided in case it is necessary for your design.) 17:50:06 I have fixed that part of the documentation now. 17:51:11 (One reason it might be necessary is if you are declaring an expansion cartridge pinout and the power/ground have to be in certain positions.) 17:51:54 ah. ok 17:51:57 I se. 17:52:00 *see 17:52:24 maybe add a CASE statement? 17:52:48 like switch case 17:53:59 Maybe it might help, yes (currently there is a ROM CASE statement but not a macro CASE statement). 17:56:13 (It would conflict but maybe renaming the ROM CASE statement to something else might help?) 18:00:14 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:00:40 -!- ^v has joined. 18:01:49 IF in VHDL afaik is sequentiel 18:02:24 case probably not 18:02:47 or it does not matter at least 18:06:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:06:28 -!- utopian has changed nick to njm. 18:06:42 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:07:19 Well, HWPL has no such procedural blocks at run time like Verilog and VHDL have. 18:07:30 Everything runs in parallel. 18:07:49 (Macros are sequential, but they are expanded at compile time.) 18:08:43 so 18:09:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:11:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:14:45 Note that something like MODULE MAIN ZZZZ1001: NOOP; is a valid (but useless) HWPL program having eight I/O pins. 18:16:17 <^v> wolfmitchell wanted to make a language that would make slapping a dick on a keyboard valid 18:16:20 It always outputs 1001 on the low four pins. 18:16:28 <^v> i would wonder how this would work 18:16:35 <^v> was thinking something like path 18:16:35 ^v: I don't know how, either. 18:23:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:28:28 My dad just told me to become a doctor and said something about a shortage of competent doctors 18:28:44 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:29:44 Doctor doctor or phd doctor 18:31:18 Medical doctor 18:32:19 http://img6.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-married-to-the-sea-auto-221896.jpeg 18:33:42 -!- pong has joined. 18:34:06 -!- pong has changed nick to Guest66796. 18:34:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:34:27 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 18:34:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:35:44 Well, if most other doctors are less competent, and I don't pick up medical knowledge, I'm effectively trusting my life to incompetent people 18:35:56 Whereas if I become a doctor, I save lives possibly including my own 18:36:29 If you are competent, then yes. 18:37:35 I think my dad's assuming that I would be competent 18:37:37 Doctors cannot actually treat themselves 18:38:13 You'd see a lot more doctors smoking medicinal joints otherwise 18:38:32 c.c 18:39:10 It's also pretty hard for surgery 18:39:54 But you could look at your own charts, and at loves ones' charts, and see whether doctors are treating you and your loved ones correctly 18:41:04 Unless you are yourself incompetent 18:41:22 or become it 18:41:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:41:36 Doctors tend to worsen as they age 18:41:54 They lose touch with modern medical science 18:42:19 Does their handwriting get worse too? 18:43:14 I wonder if bad handwriting is something they pick up at med school 18:43:27 Med school has high volume classes 18:43:37 You have to take notes fast 18:43:45 I read somewhere that someone think everyone who writes too many things in one day will have bad handwriting 18:43:46 I think medicine involves a lot of tricky judgement calls; there's not an obvious right answer in every situation 18:44:08 and so second-guessing your doctor when you're emotionally close to the situation could do as much harm as good 18:44:37 not if you are a cold blooded sociopath 18:44:41 in most cases you can't just look at a chart and be like "hmm, yes, this doctor is an 8/10" 18:44:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:45:15 you should all read http://www.amazon.com/Better-A-Surgeons-Notes-Performance/dp/0312427654 18:45:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:45:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:45:58 or not 18:47:12 burn 18:47:45 -!- Guest66796 has changed nick to ^v. 18:59:06 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:00:35 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:01:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:01:57 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:03:33 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:09:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:14:41 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 19:21:41 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:23:15 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:25:43 -!- asie has joined. 19:26:21 kmc: before or after The Illuminatus! Trilogy? 19:31:08 You interleave the words. 19:37:10 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:41:28 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 19:43:36 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 19:47:52 -!- pong has joined. 19:48:29 -!- pong has changed nick to Guest12944. 19:50:47 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:51:01 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:57:04 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:57:54 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:00:04 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:04:03 -!- Guest12944 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:05:09 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 20:09:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:10:52 -!- asie has joined. 20:12:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:13:57 shachaf: after I expect 20:17:50 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Quit: Uguubee1111110). 20:19:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:22:27 -!- Uguubee1111110 has joined. 20:25:05 -!- Uguubee1111111 has joined. 20:25:15 -!- Uguubee1111111 has quit (Client Quit). 20:26:48 -!- Uguubee1111110 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:31:06 -!- ^v has joined. 20:41:49 -!- JM563 has joined. 20:42:09 Hello 20:43:36 Some one in home? 20:43:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:44:20 Well...wellcome Sporcklem 20:44:20 `welcome JM563 20:44:25 JM563: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:44:33 Thanks Bike. 20:45:32 Any topic? 20:45:47 it's quiet 20:46:46 Well Bike, your soul is not quiet, do you have any topic on mine? 20:47:24 -!- Uguubee1111111 has joined. 20:48:48 -!- JM563 has quit (Quit: irc2go). 20:49:46 -!- JM372 has joined. 20:49:59 Sorry Bike, I am new. 20:51:51 Would you like the astrolgoy as topic? 20:52:17 astrology* 20:53:57 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:54:02 Sorry? What astrology? 20:54:06 Did you read the esolang wiki? 20:54:48 Stellar astrology, no tropical or sideral...Stellar astrology. 20:55:30 Which means what? 20:55:54 Okay...do you know tropical and sideral astrology? 20:55:55 I vaguely remember some kind of distincting between days 20:56:04 `welcome JM372 20:56:07 Yes I do know that. 20:56:07 JM372: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:56:13 Tnais Ais523 20:56:24 There's the day as in rotation of Earth, vs Sun being at the same point, due to the revolution around the sun 20:56:24 As far as I know tropical/sidereal just refers to how the zero longitude point is determined. 20:56:36 Or am I imaginign things? 20:56:42 But that's astronomy, not astrology 20:57:15 Almost posited a definition of 'astrology' that would count ST:TNG as astrology 20:57:28 Sgeo: Are you thinking of day vs sidereal day or something? 20:57:32 Okay Zzo...the Setellar astrology works withe the planets; and also, with some stars from the constellations. 20:57:34 zzo38: I think so 20:58:14 JM372: Which stars? I have Astrolog installde which can calculate the positions of some stars (it can also calculate the positions of all constellations, but not all stars they include) 20:58:35 And you say it works with the planets and stars, but in what way? That doesn't help. 20:59:17 Okay Zzo...www.astro.com can do so too...but the point is that you need to use in your personal astrology chart the principals stars. 20:59:35 So you can get one close idea about your complity astrological situation. 21:00:10 Waht is your ascending Zzo? 21:00:13 Astronomy: Related to the stars and is real. Astrology: Related to the stars and is fictional 21:00:16 >.> 21:00:52 JM372: I don't really do that kind of stuff I am not so superstitious, although I know a few things about it. To know my ascending I would have to know the time of my birth, and I never really tried to figure that out. 21:01:02 No Sego, no the Stellar Astrology...The Stellar astrology use the astronomic information too. 21:01:36 Okay Zzo....thanks for to be honest... 21:01:53 I do have the horoscope chart for the current date/time/location on my screen at this time, and the list of stars it can chart. 21:02:01 Can you name the stars? Maybe then I know what you mean. 21:02:42 Zzo...I will like to, but at least, I need your birt time and date to give your a clear example 21:02:57 birth* 21:03:13 Just use the current date and time. I don't know my birth time and do not want to give the date (anyways, if you want to know ascendant, location is important too). 21:04:01 But according with your honesty you should be Virgo ascendant. 21:05:11 OK you can assume that if you want; like I said I don't know my birth time. 21:05:13 Are you in USA or Ingland Zoo? Because you can get a copy of your birth certificate by Internet 21:05:28 England* 21:05:58 Actually I think I can find my birth certificate somewhere around here, and I can then calculate it. 21:06:13 It is okay Zzo...no problem.... 21:07:30 Oops I forgot to disable daylight saving time in this program, now I did. 21:07:33 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 21:07:48 But like Sgeo said, we need to use the effects of the stars for to make a complity astrological chart. 21:08:23 I can easily include several stars in the chart in this program. Which stars do you mean, though? 21:08:54 -!- JM372 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:45 -!- JM383 has joined. 21:11:53 Sorry, but I was booted 21:11:59 (And I live in Canada) 21:12:11 I think I need a nickname for to work in 21:13:46 Okay Zoo, but you seems to be a person very honest, so it could means that your ascending sign in Virgo 21:14:12 Yes, I said we can make that assumption if you want to. How many degrees though? 21:14:31 Very strict person, but also honest. 21:15:09 a good man and thorough 21:15:20 (Make up a number arbitrarily if you don't know; if I am to set a time of day for this chart the degrees will also be needed) 21:15:21 The idea is to work with correct information Zzo...I can asumption what ever....but your birth time is very importan 21:15:35 Again, *I don't know*. 21:16:02 Use data for a fictional character if you have to! 21:16:24 It is okay Zzo...When you get so, we can talk more about your good personality. 21:16:53 `unicode DEGREE 21:16:55 Unknown character. 21:16:56 OK, I think I might be able to find my birth certificate around here somewhere. 21:16:58 `unicode DEGREE SYMBOL 21:16:59 Unknown character. 21:17:04 At least Zzo...do you know your solar sign? 21:17:10 I do not wish to reveal my personal information, although I can calculate the positions on computer. 21:17:17 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:17:34 `unicode DEGREE SIGN 21:17:36 JM383: Yes, I do know that, although I wish not to reveal it. (It isn't close to the edge of the sign enough that the time of day would be needed.) 21:17:36 ​° 21:17:39 there we go 21:17:45 -!- yorick has joined. 21:18:22 If you tell me what stars to plot, though, I can tell the computer to plot those stars. 21:18:25 It is okay Zzo...I understand your point. 21:19:54 Zzo... in www.astro.com, they are usign some stars in the charts....but try to use the most important stars of the 12 constelacions...At least, the most shiny stars. 21:20:17 `unicode LOWERCASE THETA 21:20:19 Unknown character. 21:20:20 There are 88 constellations. 21:20:23 `unicode LOWERCASE GREEK LETTER THETA 21:20:25 Unknown character. 21:20:29 this thing needs fuzzy matching 21:20:42 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER THETA 21:20:44 Beside Zzo...use the sideral astrology, it works much beter than the tropical one. 21:20:45 ​θ 21:20:49 (There are the 12 constellations that the signs are named after, and one more which is also on the ecliptic though) 21:20:58 Zzo...the zodical constelations. 21:21:08 JM383: OK. What reference should be used for ayanamsha then? 21:21:26 (This program defaults to Fagan-Bradley) 21:21:48 -!- asie has joined. 21:22:08 Okay Fagan-Bradley? 21:22:26 OK, well, I have it on the screen in sidereal Fagan-Bradley mode. 21:23:19 -!- tertu has joined. 21:23:21 So, if in your progam you can use all the stars, tray at least to use the more brights and try to see what star is close to your sun. 21:23:53 OK. 21:24:00 to your sun and in conjuntion with the house or sector I. 21:25:11 So, this will gives to you one close idea about your physical personality (Ascendant) and spritual personality (Solar sign) 21:27:38 I have used the fourteen brightest stars (according to a list in Wikipedia). 21:28:50 (in average apparent magnitude) 21:29:18 It is okay...14 stras are good... 21:29:50 None of them are in conjunction with the Sun. 21:29:55 More than 14 will be much better, but it is better 21:30:10 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 21:30:13 And in your solar sign? 21:30:35 -!- Oj742 has joined. 21:31:11 Just one is in my solar sign (using Fagan-Bradley). 21:31:49 Okay...but do you know the characteristic of this star? 21:32:23 What is a "characteristic" of a star? 21:33:59 Okay...for ejemple...Antares in Scorpio...this mean that you need to work in this encarnation with your inner personality, making deep and big changes or....you will be a bit violent 21:34:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 21:34:05 Can you get the idea? 21:34:13 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:34:56 Kind of. I still don't know what a characteristic of a star means. 21:35:36 The magnitude and color of the stars, it shows your a more or lees the characteristic. 21:36:23 attribute...Sorry Zzo...I have too many years I do not use the english. 21:38:02 Ah, OK. Well, I do have the magnitude and color of the stars, I can look it up in Wikipedia just fine. But why do you want the color and magnitude? Certainly I know the color of the star is related to its temperature, and stuff like that, but I don't know what you are trying to do with them. 21:38:13 But the principal stars are the ascendant, solar sign, moon sign, fate sign and couple sign. 21:38:16 JM383: do you understand what this channel's for? 21:38:42 Okay...good question. 21:39:05 which reminds me, I thought up a new BF Joust strategy last night 21:39:12 but I don't have the time to write it into a program right now 21:39:14 Do you know to work the colors? I mean, do you know that are the attribute of each color? 21:39:19 I'll try later 21:39:20 JM383: ais523 does make a good point. You should look at the esolang wiki if you want to understand most of what we write here. 21:39:43 JM383: I don't know what "to work the colors" means. 21:40:17 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:40:20 JM383: what I'm worried about, really, is a) this channel isn't actually about astrology, b) zzo38 is probably the only person here who is interested in astrology, and he doesn't know what you're talking about 21:40:22 thus it's probably wrong 21:40:25 in addition to being offtopic 21:40:42 Okay Zzo...each colors got some attributes. 21:41:11 being offtopic? 21:41:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:41:28 So we can not talk about astrology? 21:41:51 JM383: not here 21:41:55 the `welcome has the appropriate channel in 21:41:56 Well, I did find "Stars in astrology" in Wikipedia. I don't really care much about where all the planets are at my birth; I am more interested in the here and now. 21:41:58 `welcome JM383 21:42:01 JM383: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:42:07 that's why you've been welcomed three times already 21:42:09 But yes it is offtopic. 21:42:21 Ha...okay Ais, please pardon me for, but I was looking for a topic. 21:42:25 (Many offtopic things are sometimes discussed in here, but you still ought to learn what is ontopic) 21:42:47 or to put it another way, offtopic conversation is more tolerated from people who participate in the ontopic conversations 21:42:53 (In order to learn what is the interests too, since astrology isn't much of an interest.) 21:43:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:43:15 ais523: Yes, that is anther way to put it too; good idea. 21:43:24 not unless there's a language that depends on astrological constellation 21:43:31 s 21:43:35 mroman: we could invent one 21:43:39 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gravity is the closest 21:43:44 well... 21:43:50 we can always invent eso languages :) 21:43:56 mroman: Actually yes I did write in "List of ideas" something about that! 21:44:02 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:44:04 hm 21:44:10 Maybe it can be done, somehow. 21:44:18 probably 21:44:30 I figure astrological constellations can be pre-calculated somehow 21:44:31 or 21:44:36 hm 21:44:56 Positions of planets, stars, etc can be calculated accurately for past and future using ephemeris. 21:45:01 then you could cheat and set the system time to a specific value :( 21:45:21 unless!!! 21:45:24 trusted computing stuff 21:45:29 that prevents you from doing so 21:45:52 (Really the only thing I can think of is something similar to Wait, although I wanted to think of something more interesting and different than that.) 21:47:11 Well...pardon me for to be out-topic. 21:47:42 Everything is on topic as long as you invent a language for it 21:47:50 A more complicated thing would also have an actual program in addition to that, and would allow certain events to change the parameters of the horoscope (house system, ayanamsha, harmonic factor, etc) and so on. 21:48:01 fengshui? 21:48:20 mroman: Maybe you can make something related to fengshui too. After all there are a lot of unusual ideas! 21:48:30 Yeah 21:48:46 Are there any papers about empirically measuring the feng shui level of a user? 21:49:13 maybe through blood, finger print, electrodes 21:49:16 brain scans 21:50:24 I don't know. 21:50:36 thanks for your time and again, pardon me for. 21:51:05 I know gnuplot 21:51:10 I'm sure I can make one up 21:51:26 -!- JM383 has quit (Quit: irc2go). 21:52:17 I don't know if Society for Scientific Exploration has any; they do try to write scientific papers relating to telepathy and astrology and so on. 21:52:56 Linux tptp.cc 2.6.32-358.6.2.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Thu May 16 20:59:36 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 21:53:08 -!- utopian has joined. 21:53:10 Linux ultra30.tptp.cc 3.10.7-gentoo-r1 #1 PREEMPT Sat Nov 2 19:03:59 EDT 2013 sparc64 sun4u TI UltraSparc II (BlackBird) GNU/Linux 21:53:44 yehhhhhhhhhhh 21:53:59 ion hi there sweety 21:54:44 About fengshui, I know it uses various different "schools" of fengshui, and the oldest one is called "form school", which is the only one I think has some partial validity and reasonableness, from what I can tell. 22:02:22 SSE does have a paper titled "How to Reject Any Scientific Manuscript". It also has some titles I do not understand, such as "Phenomenology of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Use: A Thematic Analysis". 22:03:11 It does have one title which does look like something I have thought about in the past: "Ockhams Razor and Its Improper Use". 22:03:31 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:03:49 -!- tertu has joined. 22:03:59 DMT's a hell of a drug 22:04:39 I still haven't tried it outside of ayahuasca 22:04:45 * copumpkin is deprived 22:05:00 deprived / depraved 22:05:05 https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/319595_1585878742417_31179844_n.jpg 22:05:08 DMT I made a few years back 22:05:10 I haven't tried DMT either, but I did take 5-MeO-DMT 22:06:07 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:06:18 -!- tswett_w has joined. 22:06:23 Hi everyone. 22:06:29 So this is my presentee nick. 22:06:46 The nick I use when I'm actually here and paying attention. 22:06:49 Unlike tswett_q here. 22:06:52 What's he even doing here? 22:06:57 Anyway. 22:07:03 Self-solving multi-king chess problems. 22:07:05 Are they Turing-complete? 22:08:21 What rules are used with multi-kings? 22:08:22 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 22:08:33 A move is legal only if at the end of it, none of your kings are in check. 22:08:42 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:08:54 OK. 22:09:10 (Different chess variants with multiple kings use different rules.) 22:09:34 I don't know if it is Turing-complete with unlimited board sizes possibly? 22:09:59 * Koen_ wonders if zzo38 is talking about chess being turing-complete 22:10:06 Yeah, an easy-seeming question is whether or not it's Turing-complete with an infinite board and infinitely many pieces. 22:10:17 A more interesting question, perhaps, is whether or not it's Turing-complete with only finitely many pieces. 22:10:40 Yes, is it? I don't know that answer either. 22:12:19 It seems pretty hard to constrain pieces to move in only way. It's only obvious how to do this with the pawn. If there aren't any enemy pieces around, the pawn can only move forward. 22:15:01 -!- Oj742 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:22:33 self-transforming machine elves, are they turing complete 22:23:45 I can't think how you'd do any kind of computation at all with SSMKCPs. 22:24:21 tswett_w, but Wang tiles are turing-complete and you can't do computation with them 22:24:43 you can't? 22:24:43 Yeah, I guess that's true. 22:24:48 por que no 22:24:54 kmc, no, they're just tiles 22:25:02 I can't think how you'd represent any kind of computation at all with SSMKCPs. 22:25:10 Also, I'm going to bed now 22:25:10 -!- Oj742 has joined. 22:25:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: me --> bed). 22:25:47 I"m reminded of a C program containing this line: 22:25:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:25:57 "while (x --> 0) { // x goes to 0" 22:26:56 now i'm reminded of continuous brainfuck 22:27:12 or whatever if was called. 22:27:37 running a program required solving differential equations. 22:28:20 basically + and - adjusted a cell infinitesimally. 22:28:44 i have a feeling oklopol was involved. 22:29:35 Huh, that sounds interesting. 22:29:44 that does 22:29:52 we should have a monthly Least Boring BF Derivative prize 22:30:00 also "derivative" heh 22:30:10 My dad just told me to become a doctor and said something about a shortage of competent doctors <-- are you ben from darths & droids. 22:30:21 no hes Sgeo from the internet 22:30:24 I haven't read Darth & Droids 22:30:48 kmc: that's even _more_ implausible! 22:31:16 Is that that comic strip that parodies Star Wars I by presenting it as a D&D campaign? 22:31:23 yes. 22:31:43 I thought Star Wars I was considered utterly horrible? 22:31:46 well, except they're up to V now. 22:31:59 I've only seen IV so fa 22:32:00 far 22:32:06 And I was half asleep 22:32:09 IV, II, III, V, VI 22:32:22 It seemed a bit cheesy 22:32:25 IV is the worst of the OT by far. 22:32:35 I thought Machete was IV V II III VI 22:32:39 V is the only one i've seen in a genuine cinema, although i've picked up parts of I on tv. 22:32:41 pikhq: yeah, I couldn't wait to graduate to Operating Thetan level V 22:32:51 Not coincidentally the only one directed by Lucas. 22:33:24 Sgeo: one of the accomplishments of darths & droids is that they made the most hated character in I look likeable. 22:33:33 kmc: Sgeo is from the internet? 22:33:34 oerjan: sounds fun 22:33:51 I read a novelization of I, come to think of it 22:33:54 From Anakin's POV 22:34:17 I think as a kid I've read a lot of novelizations 22:34:31 I keep being surprised by the concept of Kenan and Kel as a TV show 22:37:07 Kenan made the move up to SNL 22:38:02 Kel disappeared from society and lives in a cabin in the woods with Grothendieck 22:39:54 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:40:22 This music I'm listening to is somewhat inappropriate for a hellish world with superpowers, yet it's now associated with it indelibly in my mind 22:40:53 tswett_w: you can trap bishops behind pawn chains of their own-colored pawns 22:40:56 -!- ^v has joined. 22:41:29 Sgeo: is it a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapSaccharineWorld ? 22:41:48 Well, not sure if it's really hellish 22:42:12 But in the city that's the main focus, gangs of supervillians control the area, I think 22:42:24 oerjan: I wasn't sure whether you were telling the truth about what Darths & Droids was, so I looked it up. 22:42:42 So, I gotta go do homework and stuff. See all y'all guys. 22:42:45 -!- tswett_w has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:43:29 I want to try a wind tunnel 22:43:55 that's awesomely unspecific 22:43:59 "i want to try a laser" 22:44:20 As in, one of those places that's like skydiving but in an indoor cylindrical area 22:44:39 http://www.funfix.com/Indoor-Wind-Tunnels/New-York/ 22:44:41 oops 22:44:44 http://vimeo.com/72760181 22:46:07 tswett_w the doubter 22:49:36 -!- Oj742 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:50:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:52:24 Maybe I should try Ada 22:53:15 Well, I certainly should at least try to get an understanding of its concurrency model 22:53:23 you try Ada, I'll try DMT, we can compare notes 22:53:47 how is DMT's concurrency model? 22:54:06 Don't Mention Threads 22:54:07 Hmm, Ada distinguishes procedures and functions? Or is that just for protected objects? 22:54:20 iirc functions have return values, procedures don't 22:54:34 oerjan: a popular model 23:08:07 How is trying Ada remotely like trying an indoor wind tunnel flying place? 23:08:44 -!- eyhg7w5yt has joined. 23:09:09 quoth the writing desk 23:10:00 -!- eyhg7w5yt has quit (Excess Flood). 23:10:18 i'm glad zzo38 was around when JM372 showed up 23:10:51 -!- eyhg7w5yt has joined. 23:11:42 -!- eyhg7w5yt has quit (Excess Flood). 23:12:10 also "JM372" sounds like a synthetic cannabinoid 23:12:24 kmc: Ah. OK. I also didn't know it sounds like a synthetic cannabinoid. 23:13:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cannabinoids jesus there are a lot of these now 23:13:57 hey kids wanna get high on some 2-Isopropyl-5-methyl-1-(2,6-dihydroxy-4-nonylphenyl)cyclohex-1-ene 23:16:13 Maybe you, but I don't want to. 23:16:53 that is fine too 23:17:07 Get high on dihydrogen monoxide? 23:17:35 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 23:17:52 aw i hope i didn't scare him off with my #drugz talk 23:18:20 Of course I click 23:18:31 also it's hard to tell whether zzo38 doesn't get most jokes or just has an incredibly deadpan response 23:20:54 he definitely seems like someone who does have a sense of humor and it's for him, not for other people 23:21:09 which is commendable 23:22:06 @tell zzo38 you're great, also sorry if I scared you off with #drugz talk 23:22:06 Consider it noted. 23:22:33 DHMO is the primary ingredient in common forms of 'alternative therapy', which has killed numerous people 23:23:01 it's true! 23:23:04 some might say the only ingredient 23:24:35 Sgeo: it has also been used to kill people outright. 23:26:04 i hear bangladesh has big trouble with increasing DHMO levels. 23:27:31 especially in coastal environments 23:28:15 and the chinese have spent enormous sums of money trying to control it. 23:31:15 even norway has regular overexposure incidents. 23:39:43 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:39:56 -!- mroman has joined. 23:42:41 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:44:07 -!- tertu has joined. 23:44:09 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:49:26 whereas the prosperity of the dutch is largely a result of a forward-thinking centuries-old program to remove DMSO from the area around major cities 23:50:04 *H 23:50:09 haha lol 23:50:12 i fucked up that joke bad 23:50:34 -!- dessos has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:50:34 maybe you confused it with MSG, also a problem substance 23:50:47 DMSO sounds like it might actually be a bad thing 23:50:52 but if you can't laugh at yourself causing people to laugh at you instead of with you, who can you laugh at 23:51:00 tertu: it's mostly useful for getting other things (good or bad) through your skin 23:51:07 I don't remember how harmful it is by itself 23:51:31 "Although it has some niche medicinal uses it also has significant known side effects. It has been discussed as treatment for cancer and other conditions."