< 1383696482 752096 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/20131025151332] < 1383696632 714305 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1383696655 488522 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383696785 253705 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383697208 302632 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1383699629 326498 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: when you write match x { Foo => 1 }, that can either bind a variable named Foo, or match an enum constructor named Foo if there's one in scope < 1383699640 672316 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no lexical distinction between constructors and variables :/ < 1383699683 302608 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortunately unreachable patterns are an error, so match x { Foo => 1, _ => 2 } won't be accepted if you didn't import Foo, but the error message is not very helpful < 1383700652 560787 :avid!~null@uncommon.pw JOIN :#esoteric < 1383700748 311767 :Lymia!~moe@108-205-143-75.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383700756 48997 :Lymia!~moe@108-205-143-75.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Changing host < 1383700756 200157 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1383700930 877319 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I realized yesterday I also had a dream where I can fly (for the same reason as before, I think). I don't remember anything else except that a computer functioned in an unexpected way (something that happens a lot in my dreams). < 1383700985 380334 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens to me a lot in real life too. < 1383701007 587198 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers functioning in the unexpected way? < 1383701039 47022 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream where i extracted the key data from the chip in my driver’s license (there’s no such thing actually) and imported it to gnupg. < 1383701096 40220 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it happens to me a lot. < 1383701202 589628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383701245 992653 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383701384 133964 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm done using Fiddler. < 1383701386 350119 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Charles is the one for me. < 1383701402 223160 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiddler? Charles? What is that? < 1383701514 437129 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP proxy/debugger things < 1383701524 30754 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let you view and manipulate HTTP traffic on your computer < 1383701657 37087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You could also avoid that by requiring people to write Foo(). < 1383701673 259670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's probably worse than the capitalization thing. < 1383701695 438381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't sure whether Haskell made the right choice there, but the syntatic distinction is nice. < 1383702753 317484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CAPTCHAs and abusefilter settings changed < 1383702794 188851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thanks < 1383702799 988268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see how long this keeps the spambots down for < 1383702825 952162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, if you want them changed faster in the future then you can use a format like < 1383702828 961119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$wgCaptchaQuestions[] = array( 'question' => 'In which year was LOLCODE created?', 'answer' => '2007', < 1383702831 954028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :); < 1383702833 144960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, there were more newlines there originally < 1383702835 459175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1383702844 744327 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds pretty easy to bruteforce xD < 1383702874 617498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: well, the spambots aren't actually being hardcoded for the wiki < 1383702879 933073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just getting people to fill out the CAPTCHAs < 1383702977 882027 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking forward to anti-esolang AIs < 1383703023 702145 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write a BF program to print hello world" < 1383703056 641717 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually the wiki becomes run by only the strongest - only those who can defeat the hill in bfjoust. it's like mad max < 1383703083 724865 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"write a bfjoust program better than one of the top 50 to make an edit" < 1383703098 679078 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki-powered human algorithms or something xD < 1383703416 590349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, I didn't know what it looked like internally < 1383703443 215837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wouldn't the spambots just submit a slightly tweaked copy of omnipotence or whatever? < 1383703567 124724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, so far my spam filters have blocked 3,440 attempted edits by spambots < 1383703579 786463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just the ones that got past the CAPTCHA < 1383703612 943441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual editing doesn't seem to have human intervention < 1383703623 247639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'd be trivial to change the content of the edit to avoid the filter < 1383703625 352348 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383703693 287558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in the case of the latest batch of spambots, use the "edit this page" link rather than the "new section" link < 1383703712 114086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which interestingly, doesn't even exist on user pages by default, the spambots are getting there via URL editing) < 1383703801 624319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, I opened Chromium halfway through a distro update < 1383703806 95849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's missing its graphics for drawing tabs < 1383703807 633753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're red < 1383704333 143502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, the distro upgrade tool thing that shows distro upgrade progress has frozen < 1383704340 731154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the upgrade is still happening, though < 1383704343 676714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those things can't be interrupted < 1383704386 707385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads dpkg.log instead < 1383704606 470943 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383704640 110435 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you know self-solving multi-king chess puzzles. < 1383704663 926331 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen any, but now I understand once you explained it. < 1383704667 532573 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, aren't we all self-solving multi-king chess puzzle, on some level < 1383704668 220608 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still can't think how you'd make a computer out of one if you were allowed to put walls in. < 1383704692 700299 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: whoa. I think you're right. < 1383704700 653267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: What? ??? < 1383704715 509201 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :When < 1383704720 795618 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, evolution. It's a multi-king chess puzzle because there are lots of different things that could kill you, and it's self-solving because we evolve defenses to deal with it without any particular effort on our parts. < 1383704783 380827 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes you think. < 1383704784 512511 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't think that is a proper analogy. < 1383704799 237524 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tal vez no. < 1383704874 401072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is a self-solving multi-king chess puzzle. note how the number of kings has been going down. < 1383704909 231849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's only one king left, he wins. < 1383704928 209044 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang. < 1383704937 132073 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In tsumeshogi there is only king on one side though. < 1383704951 355415 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So *that's* why Britain's had a queen for so long. < 1383704955 475297 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A great conspiracy to keep her alive. < 1383704977 673662 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why there's a new convention saying that the line to the throne will no longer depend on people's sexes. < 1383705010 55288 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, norway made that change too. sadly we still have a crown prince, but his oldest child is a daughter. < 1383705049 975702 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have learned more about X-UA-Compatible than I ever wanted to know. < 1383705052 733781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sweden has victoria. < 1383705062 414517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I just killed saucy(8), let's continue this distro update by hand < 1383705075 299357 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now an empty shell of a web developer. < 1383705088 134629 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have figured out how to use category theory in Icosahedral RPG to make a category of spells. Each spell is a morphism, and the objects have to be correct in order to cast a spell. I haven't completely figured it out but I have figured out more ideas than just this too. < 1383705117 330033 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/ieblog/2010/Jun/16_IEsCompatibilityFeaturesforSiteDevelopers_1.svg < 1383705118 909233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you have some sort of cartesian or closed monoidal structure on the category? < 1383705123 492126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, each spell could only take one object < 1383705139 565810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I did think to make it a tensor category. < 1383705212 455628 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That chart is for IE9 specifically < 1383705330 430225 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have figured out composing spells though; you add together their mana costs and casting times, causing to do both spells together simultaneously once the casting time is finished, if they are both castable spells normally. Otherwise, the objects might specify that the spells have to be connected together in a certain way so that their effects depend on each other. < 1383705333 200335 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you see i was able to split the wiggle clear algorithm into two pairs of contiguous cells rather than four contiguous cells. < 1383705352 10750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, although that makes sense given how it works < 1383705370 740612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it just needs cells A B C D where the distance between A and B equals the distance between C and D, right? < 1383705375 160017 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally bfjoust is giving features back to bf < 1383705377 292101 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am not sure how it owuld be cartesian closed though < 1383705392 343584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it wouldn't be closed < 1383705394 292119 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah pretty much. it's on the algorithms page now. < 1383705395 975189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cartesian, though < 1383705398 927001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, does this way I described seems to work OK? < 1383705400 566837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you could send the results of spells back in time < 1383705492 4144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a category being "closed" basically means that the left and right of morphisms are mostly arbitrary, you can curve them around to move something from one side to the other < 1383705508 626701 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a result to send back in time, there would need some other spells to make it do that, I think < 1383705545 348921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Set is closed because a function from A to B is isomorphic to a function from (Unit) to (functions from A to B) < 1383705561 879364 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1383705567 379843 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :all spells should be metaspells which affect spells as well as objects < 1383705570 618180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably doesn't work for spells, though < 1383705575 348284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: category theory doesn't work like that < 1383705589 327253 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: magic does! < 1383705612 31392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, for anyone here who doesn't understand category theory and wants to < 1383705614 272656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if someone triggers the abuse filter, wouldn't the logical thing be to make them redo the captcha. < 1383705618 355882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to write a short tutorial in my PhD thesis < 1383705630 83696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(does it?) < 1383705631 723452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no because we think the spambots have a database of CAPTCHA solutions < 1383705641 95807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1383705653 435483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an alternative CAPTCHA, "make an edit to some other page that gets past the spam filter" < 1383705681 317905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have such a database any more < 1383705683 732220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suggest using the sandbox < 1383705687 551107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1383705692 718903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may recreate it at some point though < 1383705752 620958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category theory isn't the only kind of mathematics involved in this game. I think multimanas form a free semiring over a set of five elements. < 1383705770 961816 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can i use these spells to light plants on fire < 1383705800 989543 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Maybe some of them might be able to create fire, and those ones can be used for such purpose, if you target the plants with the fire. < 1383705812 261767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the partial ordering I have defined on the multimanas has another name already in mathematics. < 1383705825 274427 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the partial ordering of burning stuff < 1383705843 283121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what's your addition, and what's your multiplication? < 1383705925 795183 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is a free semiring... I hope I have the correct terminology. (Over the elements named w, u, b, r, g, then you will have (w^2+3)(wb)=w^3b+3wb, I hope?) < 1383705935 196465 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, a free commutative semiring, I mean. < 1383705964 339636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, that's how free semirings work < 1383705970 719144 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Now that I said it is actually a free commutative semiring, do you understand how I mean? < 1383705974 190277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1383706115 706904 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The partial ordering I have defined is that X is less than or equal to Y if X is a sum of terms, and if you add zero or more additional terms and/or multiply any of the terms in X by anything (not necessarily the same thing every time), then you get Y. < 1383706168 298769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hopefully I haven't made some mistake in writing this.) < 1383706179 183528 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this correct, and if so, does it have a name? < 1383706355 247631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, something's wrong with the filter < 1383706362 303012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's matching, but letting the edits through anyway < 1383706372 715970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would clean up this spam but my trackpad's stopped working properly < 1383706423 889695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mana is basically a multiset of {w,u,b,r,g}; you can only multiply. With a multimana you can add and multiply. The five manas (w), (u), (b), (r), and (g) are called "prime"; (1) is called "colorless"; all other manas are called "composite". < 1383706541 88867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and r^2 is different from r? < 1383706544 250305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, multiset < 1383706609 271570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, it is different. < 1383706664 356063 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383706687 762831 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which esolang was it that has stacks on stacks on stacks? < 1383706719 746559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 has a stack stack, but that only goes two levels of nested stacks deep < 1383706929 78211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what Ubuntu needs? fully transactional distribution upgrades < 1383706936 516454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can interrupt them at any point and the system still works < 1383706973 303055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cleaned up < 1383706986 267696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1383707031 885962 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1383707061 791916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh huh, I think the spambots still haven't figured out newlines < 1383707070 548722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noticed the

in the summaries of the page content < 1383707090 414928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the previous filter was getting stuck because there were newlines added by the new section link < 1383707130 615020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, some real editors keep using the dang
s < 1383707140 41593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the test's against
but no \n < 1383707146 375060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty unique to the spambots < 1383707159 927083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if linebreaks are useful, paragraphing's going to be useful too < 1383707189 748451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also pages should be categorised, and thus have a \n before the categories < 1383707852 211067 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some things Pin Eight has done to avoid spam; this is effective (not 100%, but reasonably effective) for them at least. < 1383708259 149667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another rule I was thinking of for Icosahedral RPG is the "MBL%" rule (it stands for "magical bad luck"). Every time you cast a spell there is a (spell level + 1)% chance to increment your MBL%, and then your MBL% chance to lose 1 XP. Every day your MBL% is cut in half, and there is the MBL% chance that you will not naturally heal that time. < 1383708285 601457 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds complicated. what's the plot purpose < 1383708287 500079 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, when you succeed at a saving throw there is a MBL% chance that you have to try again (only once, though; it doesn't repeat) < 1383708323 747376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is 1XP? I guess it's a lot more than in Dungeons & Dragons? < 1383708334 226601 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ten times as much. < 1383708417 147143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all XP gained for playing the game is ad hoc (unlike D&D), and some spells may be able to heal MBL%, and possibly recover the XP loss in a few cases (not all) < 1383708487 54627 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually when I play D&D all the XP gain is ad hoc too; the standard tables are not used at all. Icosahedral RPG simply doesn't even have such tables.) < 1383708580 859818 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, in this game I say ten times as much, but that is considering the level advancement. Standard level advancements max at level 100 though rather than level 20 (and non-standard maxes as level 125), so it isn't exactly the same. < 1383708596 307955 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the backstory < 1383708630 28878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The backstory is made up by the players and referee during the game. < 1383708732 734248 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a whole lot of other differences too, such as how alignments work, pseudolevels, and segments as a unit of time, and more < 1383708770 18359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have described some of these already in the past. < 1383708802 358939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pseudolevels are similar to the D&D concept of level adjustment.) < 1383708979 770431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Challenge rating is gone too.) < 1383709140 520795 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully this is suffuciently understandable so far? < 1383709251 712132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I will recommend that you do not mark off the XP lost due to MBL% right away, but rather tally them and at the end of the session, subtract it from the session XP gained.) < 1383709825 280201 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another feature of this game is that all of the ability scores are useful to all characters, although all for different purposes; for example, a high-level wizard may need a lot of strength to carry books if he wants to have a large selection of spells available to him at the time. < 1383709933 687725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1383710283 841290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383710391 112004 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if he wants to move heavy furniture around. < 1383710413 764674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, anyone would need strength to move heavy furniture, though. < 1383710488 450376 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1383711003 318347 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted a game where i have to take a few minutes to solve the knapsack problem in order to load up my spells < 1383711116 487762 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Ah. I like the idea but this game isn't quite like that; it could be done by making some spells take up multiple slots, though, or by the category theory way above where you need to compose two spells in order that they would work together to make the effect you want. < 1383711132 961252 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1383711236 97899 :tswett!6b0598fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.5.152.253 PART :#esoteric < 1383711351 584199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Do you know of any such game like you described? < 1383711362 712886 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i hope not < 1383711363 93525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try to make up such things, whether card games or computer games or otherwise < 1383711573 289176 :lifthras1ir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383711689 515100 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping < 1383711714 920418 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprong < 1383711769 128835 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn JOIN :#esoteric < 1383711808 727570 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1383711808 882502 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1383711809 40212 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1383711809 340204 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1383711871 533532 :SirCmpwn_!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn NICK :SirCmpwn < 1383712003 352840 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1383712299 247349 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1383712687 464125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game with tetris shaped spell slots < 1383712725 180261 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game where you solve captchas to cast spells < 1383712991 913216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott There is something unsatisfying when your deletions and blocks take up _more_ space in recent changes than the original spam did :( < 1383712992 103771 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1383713016 288210 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well only nerds would read recent changes < 1383713026 972276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Bike -----### < 1383713033 374207 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ nerds < 1383713036 322687 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as previously discussed? < 1383713040 868719 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove me wrong mother fucker < 1383713061 679953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NERDS WANT TIDY WEB PAGES < 1383713145 572595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just add an option in the recent changes menu that says "Hide deleted/blocked" < 1383713228 383051 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383713872 7801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there are new CAPTCHAs and abusefilter settings now, so should end < 1383714075 668086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also several rangeblocks, which should slow the rate a bit < 1383714086 271026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, there needs to be lots of spam to be able to aim a rangeblock correctly < 1383714117 84741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bleh, there's definitely something wrong with abusefilter < 1383714151 512158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's set to disallow, but the filter seems to not be matching live < 1383714157 686666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it does in the retrospective test thing < 1383714454 222782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i blocked another one just before doing that @tell < 1383714494 695655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, the existing accounts will still edit for a while < 1383714509 172964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that one should have been trapped < 1383714545 393586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that the abusefilter is matching the new edits < 1383714558 743299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet somehow, they're not being stopped < 1383714878 697234 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the abusefilters misconfigured? < 1383714896 53665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think so, although it's possible < 1383715036 306503 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1383715061 324589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any other filters than /4 ? < 1383715072 604268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there are /1, /2, and /3 < 1383715077 84711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which seem to be working correctly < 1383715089 583567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? i couldn't get them listed.. < 1383715096 576982 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have a TeX file generated from the TeX source? cweave is choking on it for me and #latex is silent. < 1383715111 337202 :Chat9490!~Chat9490@69.41.182.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383715122 274094 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Yes, I do have. < 1383715142 791681 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool beans. Any way you can share it? < 1383715152 479005 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean tex.web? < 1383715156 138034 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1383715176 173419 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to generate a TeX file from the one on CTAN, but cweave is giving me errors < 1383715186 616008 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use weave, not cweave. < 1383715186 956051 :Chat9490!~Chat9490@69.41.182.132 PART :#esoteric < 1383715197 751441 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe that's all I did wrong :D < 1383715208 675218 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2013/07/26/5 "remote command injection vulnerability in xmonad-contrib" < 1383715212 697634 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exciting (also old news I guess) < 1383715215 700129 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: irc2go < 1383715221 954440 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, zzo38! < 1383715226 980431 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That totally worked < 1383715283 33719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i can only get to the page for /4, although the rest are listed in Special:AbuseFilter < 1383715312 579350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, those pages had been crashing before < 1383715325 309226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I created /4, I assumed it was fixed < 1383715342 337420 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders how or works in Icon < 1383715352 840049 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't work like < etc. do, right? < 1383715474 155738 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1383715494 602969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does < work and why not < 1383715528 288004 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < b fails if a isn't less than b, and if a is less than b returns b < 1383715544 196600 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can do a < b < c and things like that comfortably < 1383715590 351275 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with ||, then you still need to do the right-hand expression if the first fails.. hmm, just requires the operator to be able to succeed despite a failure < 1383715607 314562 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zen < 1383715804 431857 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dazed and confused but trying to continue < 1383716851 310233 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1383716890 491498 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1383717014 521492 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most recent spam is using wiki syntax < 1383717172 662510 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383717336 620570 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE LEARNING < 1383717536 245730 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often are you flying in a dream, and if so is it ever because you have wings? < 1383717650 315362 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1383717654 138572 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people say they fly without wings. Someone else has said to me that in their dream they use a boat, once they learned that the boat was built in a way that wouldn't work, it sink immediately. < 1383717680 333982 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rarely remember flying dreams and I don't think I ever had wings but it could be < 1383717696 809655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you still you, though? < 1383717703 807075 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually < 1383717705 834696 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1383717714 731557 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which cases are you not you? < 1383717715 311906 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a specific memory of being someone else in a dream ever < 1383717726 576721 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my dreams i'm only a blank puppet of the gods, acting out their fantasies for their amusement < 1383717749 920670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes fly in my dreams, strangely enough by grabbing my legs. < 1383717805 651102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I used to be able to fly in dreams via repeatedly jumping < 1383717805 839878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can never fly very high though, because there's always bloody power lines in the way. < 1383717816 519453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays I tend not to have a physical form at all though < 1383717830 821446 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting.............??? < 1383717850 751290 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it interesting, zzo < 1383717861 580655 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i often attempt autofellatio in dreams and it usually works < 1383717870 352709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is odd because I rarely attempt it while awake and it never works < 1383717875 946086 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet this doesn't trigger lucid dreaming < 1383717888 8607 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote nowadays I tend not to have a physical form at all though Interesting.............??? < 1383717893 503513 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1128) nowadays I tend not to have a physical form at all though Interesting.............??? < 1383717913 796482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was someone else I think three times, in all cases being a different species rather than human. Those are only reason I can fly is if I am of some species that has the ability to fly. In a few cases, I am nobody at all, just an observer, having no form or anything. < 1383717918 699297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, those lines are only funny out of context < 1383717924 554743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are pretty funny out of context < 1383717924 705757 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which species zzo38? < 1383717931 896649 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the mean and standard deviation of the number of cocks you have in dreams < 1383717933 485061 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think zzo38's reaction is funny regardless < 1383717951 89026 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I find that sometimes even when I am myself, I can levitate half an inch above the ground for some reason, without doing anything unusual. < 1383717975 389580 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think it's always one so maybe the sd is undefined < 1383717985 929678 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that make it zero? < 1383717995 697352 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it? < 1383718008 406789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so < 1383718017 186024 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you're not deviating from the norm < 1383718022 272228 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how limited of you < 1383718030 810606 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :variance is expected square of deviation, yeah < 1383718032 398242 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :conformist. < 1383718039 807046 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1383718045 675960 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, once I was illithid like my Dungeons&Dragons character. In the two cases I could fly it is because I was mi-go (I played in a computer game once). In both cases, I had additional memories as myself, which happened to be false memories, and uncombinable with the memories of the form I had in the dream. < 1383718058 919697 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck, you're playing as an illithid? < 1383718065 302024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ah. So that is how standard deviation works? < 1383718068 748598 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbiased_estimation_of_standard_deviation is kind of neat < 1383718082 220284 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1383718091 597213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't actually know a lot about it, but I have found the formula once and put it into the computer) < 1383718095 288623 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sample s.d. is a biased estimator < 1383718097 932939 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wake up sheeple < 1383718121 85417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\rainbow{KURTOSIS} < 1383718123 72577 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard deviation is basically the sqrt of the variance, yeah < 1383718133 378506 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it exactly that? < 1383718133 529496 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kurtosis is such an awesome word, i ahve no idea what the fuck it means too < 1383718143 346587 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, I know that is what standard deviation is. < 1383718148 978610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Distributions with negative or positive excess kurtosis are called platykurtic distributions or leptokurtic distributions respectively." < 1383718152 76610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now those are some awesome words < 1383718153 886927 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For your other question: See my D&D recording) < 1383718190 316993 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always try to record my and other people dream sequence things, so I will do that too now. < 1383718191 140915 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well there's the n-1 correction and other shit i don't remember so i dun wanna commit < 1383718194 756275 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1383718203 703959 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wow the unbiased sd estimator for the normal distribution is awesomely complicated. < 1383718215 961629 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/3/a/b3a3e6627a48873e4a582fc64a249cd2.png get it on < 1383718243 711662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1383718252 196645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i wanna know what the n^-4 term is!! < 1383718274 504221 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a sd estimator? What is the Gamma and O doing? < 1383718287 30761 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"c4(n) is the scale mean of the chi distribution with n − 1 degrees of freedom" < 1383718308 143723 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should learn more terrifying statistics facts < 1383718311 633977 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbiased_estimation_of_standard_deviation#Results_for_the_normal_distribution i guess it's part of the mean of a chi distribution < 1383718316 153208 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use them to scare small children in my neighborhood < 1383718333 196916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm chai distribution < 1383718343 703022 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/1/7/f/17f3c3655c300615607d0712fd73c09b.png oh, yes. (this is the mean of a chi with k dof) < 1383718360 493829 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel kind of bad since i have a favorite distribution. < 1383718379 479845 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I open F:\HTML\backup in Windows Explorer, it crashes, for some reason. (Opening it in the command prompt, or in any other program, works fine though; subdirectories also work fine.) < 1383718482 703851 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually, i guess it's a tie, between cauchy (because practically all the moments are undefined) and solomonoff's (because it's uncomputable) < 1383718496 828355 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, the Gamma is factorial of (n-1). I still don't know what the "O" does? < 1383718544 324738 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's saying that the series continues in terms of n^-4, n^-5, etc., and these all keep decreasing and don't affect the result much. < 1383718553 109060 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is Solomonoff's distribution, is that the universal prior? < 1383718562 41745 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i missing something because i'm pretty sure zzo knows what big o means < 1383718563 991330 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah < 1383718570 444325 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The only assumption that the theory makes is that the environment follows some unknown but computable probability distribution. It is a mathematical formalization of Occam's razor." how can you not love this < 1383718576 614376 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only makes that one tiny assumption < 1383718580 20956 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/File:RaySolomonoff2001.jpg < 1383718583 776769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I don't know what the big O means in this context though. < 1383718596 778167 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I do know what it means in general) < 1383718603 639045 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it means the same as usual. the value is less than a cconstant times n^-4 < 1383718624 109031 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you never seen it used like this before? it comes up all the time... < 1383718637 232672 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: maybe if you don't love uncomputable things? but imo that's like not loving kittens or sunshine < 1383718654 556945 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn straight < 1383718674 294299 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardcore bayesians are so awesomely out of it i love them. it's just the facts < 1383718714 653689 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardcore bayesians in $YOUR_CITY want to update your prior TONIGHT < 1383718763 42807 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :distribute their prior uniformly over your body < 1383718869 424712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :=D < 1383718962 963225 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think the lexical distinction at the value level would be good for Rust. people already mostly follow the style < 1383719068 642331 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to make an exception for constants (static FOO: int = 3) < 1383719154 759998 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually we already have -W non-camel-case-types which warns about variants too < 1383719240 542174 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust has nice control over warnings; there are attributes for lexically scoped allow / warn / error plus another that's "error and forbid overrides of that within this scope" < 1383719269 319782 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had one dream where the first computer game ever invented was an implementation of a card game called "One Draw", played on hardcopy terminals. < 1383719332 830113 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think Haskell's lexical distinction wouldn't fly for types; stuff like int is lowercase while structs are mostly camelcase, also using uppercase for tyvars is firmly established < 1383719448 293269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use capitalized names for structs in C, but lowercase for other types such as "byte" and "boolean". In BASIC, I usually give a structure name capitalized and then if a single variable uses it, it has the same name (including capitalization) (I do this often in BASIC in order to serialize data structures more easily) < 1383719521 554639 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383719551 860316 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have found my new bible. < 1383719569 551641 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Which one is that? < 1383719575 744660 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Guru Granth Sahib? < 1383719604 283247 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the crisis by Edwards Deming < 1383719627 176880 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1383719661 528911 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can finally get rid of my copy of a new kind of science because Deming is a more exciting guru < 1383719673 444321 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hurt me. < 1383719678 644353 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In another dream, I lived in an apartment; this apartment building was really strange, including elevators in strange places. In addition, the furniture store was also a video game arcade (without any separations between them); some of the games involved escalators to go around the building (both of them). < 1383719708 165075 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a strange place for an elevator? < 1383719708 383485 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Deming System of Profound Knowledge" god < 1383719710 438521 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuc < 1383719719 620338 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this earth < 1383719743 213626 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: At this time, I do not know. (Either I forgot or there was no data.) < 1383719792 407655 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: The sequel is "The Deming Pyramid: Enlighten Your Friends for Fun and Profit" < 1383719803 15247 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up\ < 1383719857 928493 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't gotten to the profound knowledge yet < 1383719911 39531 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm enjoying reading about how corporate slogans are stupid < 1383719974 395367 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and performance reviews are stupid < 1383720146 721855 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work is also stupid and people with jobs are no better than sheep, MOM < 1383720175 345738 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: what's wrong? < 1383720214 702300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why are you driving the subway train the wrong way?" ... "I am a druid and I am driving this way because I like to." ... What??? < 1383720273 633171 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Isn't there some philosophy about the nobility of labor and all that? < 1383720296 561105 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, but philosophy is also stupid < 1383720397 642548 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone told me they had a dream that ended in credits. < 1383720428 807710 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was listed? < 1383720436 976350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; they didn't say. < 1383720833 659856 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Philosophy is not necessarily so stupid to me. < 1383720850 325434 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1383720851 723604 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And work isn't stupid either. < 1383721104 184139 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had a dream that changed every time I blink. < 1383721144 112223 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you ever taken psychedelic drugs < 1383721187 651975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, I don't think so. < 1383721227 403668 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1383721229 303389 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like to < 1383721238 744922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think so that either. < 1383721905 288518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0`seq`) < 1383721906 374860 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Prim.seq' [infixr 0] of a section < 1383721906 525667 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower pr... < 1383721992 53987 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had a dream where I was trying to throw away a key, but the people outside kept catching it. < 1383722062 892052 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION . o ( `addquote zzo38: have you ever taken psychedelic drugs I once had a dream where I was trying to throw away a key, but the people outside kept catching it. ) < 1383722067 619697 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Someone made up a computer game called "Tetanus on Drugs", so you can play Tetris and you do not need any psychedelic drugs! < 1383722095 425488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It is a miss of a lot of things; add [...] in the middle perhaps < 1383722163 950590 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm not going to add it really < 1383722173 820370 :Slereahphone!~slereahph@80.12.100.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383722183 295650 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I don't expect you to. < 1383722202 882709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray for realistic expectations < 1383722204 785691 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean that even if things like that are added for whatever reason it should add [...] on it < 1383722208 399845 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree < 1383722423 54085 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dissagree < 1383722499 298855 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is everything identity? < 1383722526 265139 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a certain convention's point of view, Prolog's =/2 could be called identity < 1383722534 167313 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is id < 1383722547 114153 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Kernel, (unwrap id) == quote, I think < 1383722547 536264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what Prolog's =/2 is (or much else about Prolog) < 1383722601 535465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1383722733 900376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an infix predicate defined by the clause X = X, so it simply tries to unify its arguments when called. i think. < 1383722743 33135 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only need three registers at max for binary expressions, right? < 1383722745 510645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sounds reasonable. < 1383722757 265241 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming I have no constraints on which operations can be performed on which registers) < 1383722811 130500 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1383722907 665020 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of expressions? < 1383722974 189838 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a + b, a * b, a << b and such < 1383723004 730710 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though WP says that for every register machine there's an equivalent register machine with only two registers < 1383723054 719434 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :althouh I couldn't get how I can implement it with only two registers < 1383723057 831234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: that assumes unbounded registers. also, exponential slowdown. or was it doubly exponential. < 1383723160 338563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had a dream where the presence of the electric pokemon Voltorb caused the radio to explode every time it was turned on. I realized it could be prevented by turning on the TV set at the same time, which worked because the TV used more power than the radio. < 1383723194 719310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much more? < 1383723204 347963 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubly exponential sounds awful < 1383723205 806089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: basically you go via a single register multiplication/division machine. see also http://esolangs.org/wiki/Minsky_machine < 1383723231 481606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: i'm not quite sure if it is that. < 1383723246 576788 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't know, but it was CRT, so probably a lot more. < 1383723255 828194 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean just in general, but yes, in that particular case I'm sure it would also be unpleasant < 1383723264 261052 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. Then I stick to using three registers < 1383723267 309183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i'm thinking of getting from there to a turing machine. < 1383723274 696407 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a dream about a bucket collecting contest < 1383723291 408482 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :except on x86 because there are some nasty register constraints there < 1383723291 701644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: technically three registers don't necessarily help enough. < 1383723299 881580 :Slereahphone!~slereahph@80.12.100.224 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1383723322 357861 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: My allocation tree skizzes tell me that three registers are enough < 1383723337 105367 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at max three registers are used at the same time < 1383723353 452685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: um are you assuming you have RAM in addition to this. < 1383723373 601228 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1383723384 346328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case 2 is obviously enough, it's a different problem. < 1383723414 57012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just put the result in one of the input registers. < 1383723453 920574 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1383723456 519889 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is probably turing complete with no registers < 1383723456 910674 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can load two values < 1383723459 133814 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :add them together < 1383723484 617163 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the other register as a memory pointer < 1383723489 52294 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :write the result there < 1383723501 156714 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's esentially doable < 1383723513 795524 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but three registers are probably more practical < 1383723561 823517 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if I can keep results in registers it's probably faster than writing/reading from memory all the time < 1383723577 765048 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok. < 1383723581 780613 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That answers my question. < 1383723584 642229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is x86 Turing complete with no registers? < 1383723619 92273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What else about such dream which is about a bucket collecting contest? How does such contest work in a dream? < 1383723634 217003 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can increment/decrement in memory < 1383723664 152992 :Slereahphone!~slereahph@801591080.ipsat.francetelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383723666 33786 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can compare with memory and immediate < 1383723678 821433 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e CMP m32, imm32 < 1383723683 657184 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can check for 0 < 1383723699 864616 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can JMP imm32 < 1383723720 581393 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can translate brainfuck to x86 without using any registers < 1383723725 462975 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1383723728 35483 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the important question is "How are the contents of the bucket factored into the scoring of the game?" < 1383723735 19416 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically, collect buckets inside a specific apartment in a house, stack them and see which team gets the longest/tallest stack < 1383723764 197427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Ah, OK. Any other details of such a dream, or just that? < 1383723790 147580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1383723793 487369 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, I think we were tearing out stuff for a building to be demolished before then < 1383723797 267532 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not yet certain how to address cells on the tape though < 1383723797 524369 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so a bucket full of sand is potentially much more valuable than an empty bucket < 1383723816 523388 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think x86 or any CPU is really Turing complete by itself (whether or not you have any registers), but you probably can a CPU connected to an unbounded tape in the I/O ports < 1383723818 581369 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: it's also cheating, that must be emptied before scoring < 1383723831 117003 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right < 1383723855 513630 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Tall, shallow buckets, then < 1383723983 714815 :Slereahphone!~slereahph@801591080.ipsat.francetelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi < 1383724092 873304 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: unfortunately no-one puts buckets like that in their derelict buildings, but if there are such buckets they would indeed be good to find and collect < 1383724208 288765 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's harder if you forbid using the flags register as well < 1383724343 414716 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but might be doable using tricks like those in the "mov is Turing-complete" paper < 1383724431 962293 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383724468 446056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mov is Turing-complete" < 1383724490 49364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I,I "I used to have a little tube of jmp here to sharpen it up a bit -- then this'll be Turing-complete." < 1383724540 232670 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As long as someone else implements the compiler" < 1383724544 505524 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1383724576 635413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: mov-only machines work, they have the instruction pointer as something you can move to < 1383724578 131382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mov to < 1383724589 531272 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe not, because maybe mov doesn't support the right indirect modes if you can't use registers < 1383724614 519079 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do a memory-indirect jump! < 1383724621 985216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000000000000 ff2425efbead0b jmp qword [0xbadbeef] < 1383724632 277124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is x86 mov? < 1383724680 700426 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paper? < 1383724680 996267 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that paper was about x86. < 1383724682 178781 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1383724691 996641 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking about whether x86 is turing complete with no registers, including no flags register < 1383724705 570363 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still allowing the instruction pointer though!) < 1383724707 367229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no instruction pointer register? < 1383724709 340327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1383724712 362594 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1383724716 945724 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so. cmp is not allowed? < 1383724748 137946 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds really hard. like. the only non-flaggy conditional jump I can think of is the jecz thing or something? < 1383724789 714453 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like jmp [mem] is conditional on the contents of memory < 1383724801 625753 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1383724801 776624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge-style loops < 1383724804 1865 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ret too < 1383724815 192380 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you could add/xor/etc constants to memory to change its address < 1383724818 130748 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ret counts as using the stack pointer < 1383724823 512673 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I would allow cmp without register operands but I wouldn't allow anything which depends on the condition flags < 1383724855 427913 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess if your turing machine has N states you could like um < 1383724875 741793 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have [foo] be the address of the next state < 1383724884 526297 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ah < 1383724885 496005 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1383724886 664960 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like, mov [foo], state2 would set the next state to 2? < 1383724892 287020 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because DEC for example affects flags as well < 1383724905 293205 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gonna be difficult finding instructions that don't affect any flags < 1383724916 70841 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I'm ok with that as long as it's not observable :) < 1383724926 473805 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fair :( < 1383724946 900661 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1383724953 225795 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no instructions depending on flags < 1383724955 525626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey I want to make a registerless x86 program but the TSC keeps changing what do I do?" < 1383724969 186121 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1383724970 351508 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1383724977 318194 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :jecxz/jmp < 1383724984 478928 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSC? < 1383725006 334967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :timestamp counter < 1383725009 734887 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383725018 528106 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even forbid instructions that depend on EFLAGS because of, like, trap flag and alignment check flag < 1383725021 668058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's OK for the registers to change < 1383725024 839089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as you don't read/write them < 1383725031 580169 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know about any TSC register < 1383725045 666491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See "rdtsc". < 1383725045 943951 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every instruction is implicitly a read of the trap flag woah < 1383725077 623307 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1383725079 220134 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1383725086 369621 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSC is not *really* good ol' x86 < 1383725097 864304 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some new age thing < 1383725139 984878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, every access to memory involves "reading" a segment register. < 1383725141 422221 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much architectural state does x86 actually have? the answer is "a lot" and it's all listed in one place in the Intel manuals < 1383725160 132383 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the documentation for the virtual machine state struct thingy used by VMX < 1383725226 622726 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since, y'see, "mov [foo], 42" is actually "mov ds:[foo], 42" and that's a register right there. < 1383725229 998082 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it's not directly accessible but observable state nonetheless < 1383725258 678709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example the segment descriptors, which are loaded from memory when you load a segment selector register < 1383725323 676778 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the TLB is in there... because there are some fantastic VM tricks which involve deliberately making stale TLB entries < 1383725349 164468 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they not work in virtualization? < 1383725362 194043 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably not have used the acronym "VM" there but meant virtual memory < 1383725418 828951 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is being dumb and is trying to implement that registerless turing machine thing but can't figure out how to do the tape < 1383725429 399268 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the state seems doable but storing the current tape position sounds hard < 1383725548 963189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's just one TLB. (That's why there's the whole VPID stuff, so that everything VMX-related doesn't invalidate the whole TLB.) < 1383725624 503313 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1383725625 774063 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The original architecture for VMX operation required VMX transitions to flush the TLBs and paging-structure caches. This ensured that translations cached for the old linear-address space would not be used after the transition. Virtual-processor identifiers (VPIDs) introduce to VMX operation a facility by which a logical processor may cache information for multiple linear-address spaces. --" < 1383725642 947526 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I think those tricks should still work < 1383725751 927394 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is measuring the effective size of the TLB a good way to detect whether you're running in hardware virtualization? < 1383725778 275813 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there easier ways that can't be thwarted by the hypervisor? < 1383725811 107671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that there were ways, in general. No idea about their fakability. < 1383725826 839625 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT : < 1383725919 742392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically, any way can be thwarted by a sufficiently AI-complete hypervisor < 1383725941 201168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, like, qemu < 1383725942 667097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TLB thing would involve timing measurements and so could be thwarted by virtualizing time < 1383725960 834528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The classic trick to detect a VM is to populate the ITLB, run an instruction that must be virtualized (which necessarily clears out such processor state when it gives control to the hypervisor), then run some more code to detect if the ITLB is still populated." < 1383725983 301082 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if you care about hardware virtualization then you are not willing to virtualize time to an arbitrary degree < 1383726043 663083 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: cool my idea works hooray &c < 1383726166 790622 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be impossible to detect low-level emulation of a system? < 1383726175 227093 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could do virtualization by just giving the virtualized system one of your cpus, and use the iommu or something similar to sandbox it < 1383726243 408958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: The question was limited to the context of hardware-assisted virtualization. < 1383726291 981146 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the iommu would still be detectable of course, and probably even easier to detect there since the tsc would be reliable) < 1383726292 912371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We're all just snippets of code running in someone's universe simulator, anyway.) < 1383726308 729416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the iommu let you isolate a single processor from parts of memory and also prevent that processor from reprogramming the iommu? < 1383726321 139817 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe but I don't think so < 1383726436 91122 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are bizarrely restricted subsets of x86 the new turing tarpits? imo yes < 1383726468 926251 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1383726470 616621 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "only the MMU" https://github.com/jbangert/trapcc < 1383726480 419916 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :those computer scientist must've really run out of better stuff to do < 1383726530 185492 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how/if the iommu affects cpu memory access, but if it does work I imagine you would simply hide the iommu from that cpu < 1383726583 87098 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that mmu turing thing work anyway? < 1383726608 367213 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some talks and papers and stuff < 1383726622 858063 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGXvJ1GKBKM is the one i watched < 1383726632 954249 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd also need to somehow set it up so the iommu faults go somewhere else and not to the sandboxed cpu, and make sure that the sandbox cpu can't override it (which I think is not currently possible) < 1383726644 560593 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also covers other cool stuff like the stale TLB tricks i mentioned earlier < 1383726915 956475 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1383728372 829644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1383729031 494809 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION -> sleep < 1383729576 557166 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1383729605 718317 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383729930 291385 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh for... *another* HTK filename length issue. < 1383729974 772249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The result-analysis tool segfaults if paths in the label file are over 256 characters. < 1383730030 904884 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383730614 726407 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1383730638 77230 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : char name[256]; /* file name for error messages */ < 1383730711 827549 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1383731380 59043 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1383731576 155941 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383731711 478807 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1383731988 212355 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1383732712 302612 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383732734 647816 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying voice recognition again < 1383732734 798606 :realz!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1383732759 715662 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1383732763 886066 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1383732771 322171 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is going pretty well < 1383732783 731484 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much better than last time I tried < 1383732793 258215 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't even need to type < 1383732811 993659 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I need to do is speak and occasionally press send < 1383732821 679659 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite improving my diction < 1383732827 591653 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : because I'm forced to speak quite clearly < 1383732844 175928 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what's with the spaces at the beginning of some lines < 1383732851 679868 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe that's for a partial sentence < 1383732930 491198 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is actually working really well < 1383732943 571778 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : real fast norris hair salon 3 she deserves to download < 1383732953 831997 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : almost < 1383732979 107503 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real fast nora's hair salon 3 shear disaster download < 1383732984 178122 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that was much better < 1383733154 167358 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: Taneb has a keyboard, Ngevd has a microphone) < 1383733162 74641 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another bad PHP example: https://eval.in/60631 < 1383733221 11799 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try entering that URL via voice recognition < 1383733238 470208 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1383733260 755292 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https: slash slash eval dart in slash 6 06 31 < 1383733349 21462 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is voice recognition have something to dance judges < 1383733366 834182 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phone now it started < 1383733371 582 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : airedale < 1383733449 381490 :realz!~pinky@pool-98-113-151-156.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383733462 409198 :realz!~pinky@pool-98-113-151-156.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Changing host < 1383733462 560160 :realz!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat JOIN :#esoteric < 1383733757 279835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dart in. < 1383733821 240569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you got the ':' in, but that was the only punctuation. < 1383733924 104570 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1383733988 642449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I sort of didn't catch those last three lines.) < 1383734079 998024 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383734414 322708 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383734421 353875 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383734506 378060 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This voice recognition has" then I forgot < 1383734511 839513 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh no, it's started" < 1383734519 293898 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't remember what airedale was < 1383734668 966841 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383735073 625854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was nice while it worked. < 1383735444 895948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's ##c extract: http://sprunge.us/bPch < 1383735476 736933 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1383735514 589530 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't argue with mathematical proof. < 1383736293 645806 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are so many superior languages, but not many posterior ones. < 1383737364 815281 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1383737368 69828 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP has a type system? < 1383737370 794404 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when? < 1383737377 454975 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only knew PHP 4 once < 1383737394 297381 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're probably at PHP 6 or something < 1383737515 79735 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how he measures language sanity < 1383737554 842427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: PHP as a language is great, static typing, + sum types you can create types yourself, functional, latest version has algebraic data types amongst others < 1383737557 883625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're perhaps talking about some whole other PHP altogether -- or just generally trolling -- because I could not really verify any of this from the webs. < 1383737595 208282 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Last I heard, PHP didn't really have much to do with the words "static typing".) < 1383737698 507183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they seem to be in 5.x still. < 1383737823 408397 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1383737828 599851 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383737834 337113 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383737854 238863 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope PHP 6 will clean up the whole mess of functions < 1383738412 706335 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, or mod_python becomes the new standard for webhosters < 1383738705 235197 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you the boobie lover btw? < 1383738744 396071 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people use stupid nicknames. < 1383738784 985779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I was just a bystander. < 1383738856 294162 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something simpler to prove turing completeness rather than a bf interpreter? < 1383738873 807025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT is quite common in some circles. < 1383738887 443245 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought of that < 1383738896 52261 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be suitable < 1383738910 285127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something SKIttish. < 1383738912 978442 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :underload? < 1383738961 189618 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do think anything stack based is too hard < 1383738970 379859 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT may be the perfect choice < 1383738999 227657 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i may get better with a compiler from BCT < 1383739059 937161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going at it "directly" with a plain UTM can also be reasonable. < 1383739061 26531 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fractran maybe? < 1383739230 575440 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1383739557 209179 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383739563 367779 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383739618 466551 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, maybe it's just impossible < 1383739708 816918 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to translate to what? < 1383739715 266956 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language are you trying to prove TC? < 1383739733 45931 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wolfgang < 1383740087 531563 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia states, that petri nets with inhibitor arcs are turing complete < 1383740099 47795 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why, though < 1383740102 871244 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1383740109 714902 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[citation needed] then :P? < 1383740128 387880 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is one < 1383740154 87649 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A universal Petri net with 14 places, 42 transitions, and 218 arcs was built" < 1383740156 291296 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1383740184 327463 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a shorter way due to determinism of wolfgang < 1383740247 666517 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :This might sound like a dumb question.. but: Aren't TC languages per 'definition' not deterministic? < 1383740266 519944 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1383740289 514612 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find brainfuck pretty deterministic < 1383740293 745831 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :halting problem < 1383740301 483342 :Ngevd!~taneb@5.151.64.71 QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1383740335 974269 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does halting problem have to do with determinism? < 1383740345 465459 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea. < 1383740353 714441 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1383740358 5876 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least you can't say if it terminates or not < 1383740367 580774 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sounds like it's not really deterministic at all < 1383740377 71470 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't "foresee" what will happen < 1383740399 611631 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if it does not terminate with a given input, it should never terminate with that same input < 1383740405 847974 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that somehow violates my brain's definition of determinism < 1383740447 667695 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, short way: if input is equal, output should be equal < 1383740450 78625 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you treat the program as a state machine < 1383740453 748140 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the input as an event < 1383740470 796858 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where terminated is a state < 1383740475 950840 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still running is a state < 1383740517 595628 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. wait... < 1383740538 647244 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... scratch that < 1383740669 674160 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of predeterminism probably < 1383740838 979057 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Predeterminism is the idea that all events are determined in advance < 1383740841 300931 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that one. < 1383741345 717780 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every program either terminates or does not terminate, and this is true in advance. < 1383741553 473936 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1383741625 151926 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1383741965 60727 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1383742513 336649 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383742612 352368 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1383742707 128832 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383742816 255298 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1383742867 541249 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 QUIT :Quit: late breakfast < 1383742965 983786 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383742983 954977 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383743476 27982 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383744988 346304 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1383744992 366625 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383745113 280071 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383745401 445926 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383745491 366651 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383746506 6086 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.126.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internet archive / wayback machine is down. < 1383746556 46179 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.126.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently they're on fire. They tweeted about a building being on fire (there's also a donate link in the same tweet!) < 1383746600 614065 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.126.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd how they mention the safety of the data before the safety of the people. < 1383746763 405707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1383747297 365042 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383747483 365156 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383747501 626843 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1383747567 312422 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383747759 364375 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383747826 116843 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should store data on people. people tend to catch fire less often than buildings, so the data would be safer. < 1383747941 186359 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383748805 922663 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383749467 719069 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1383749697 489689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The class "false" is undefined. Perhaps Java is not running." < 1383749702 690874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, MATLAB, you and your errors. < 1383749901 530138 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383750149 286724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDCS on the cluster seems to have broken down *again*. < 1383750155 165958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I think I'll worry about it tomorrow. < 1383750177 500502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's all "Reason: sbatch: error: Batch job submission failed: Invalid account or account/partition combination specified" about it.) < 1383750760 831051 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1383750911 261916 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1383751642 695949 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1383751685 696215 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu NICK :Bike < 1383751775 672429 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1383752975 366012 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1383753240 367574 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383753667 905963 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1383753749 94660 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1383753850 898697 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383754239 755257 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1383754939 188291 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383755138 836454 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383755450 886469 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1383755621 272373 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383755795 61689 :S1!~S1_chatzi@p4FF92CF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1383756611 236721 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1383756727 128427 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383757557 153355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1383757614 797603 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383757706 403831 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383757917 466452 :Tawo!~IceChat9@c83-249-185-101.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1383757958 259319 :Tawo!~IceChat9@c83-249-185-101.bredband.comhem.se PART :#esoteric < 1383758525 44518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383758675 308112 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1383759220 691471 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383759232 119561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1383759410 351747 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1383759425 127270 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1383759444 126815 :S1!~S1_chatzi@p4FF92CF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258] < 1383759845 803290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1383759855 884590 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383760176 738753 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1383760208 22547 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1383760416 842705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : mroman: PHP as a language is great, static typing, + sum types you can create types yourself, functional, latest version has algebraic data types amongst others <-- all of this fits haskell except "latest version" (it had them from the start) < 1383760419 255160 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383760501 134528 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1383760690 228137 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383760716 919668 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1383760728 951132 :`^_^v!~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a cool book cover http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5121HYFTK0L.jpg < 1383760757 801575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : The internet archive / wayback machine is down. <-- THUS IT BEGINS < 1383760767 100347 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had a ire :( < 1383760768 467387 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fire* < 1383760787 522907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that was the next line. < 1383760828 75985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`^_^v: finally something for the programming sheeple! < 1383760829 712885 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^v:: not found < 1383760884 724304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there's no way to get HackEgo to simply not respond to a command, is there < 1383760891 816109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on purpose < 1383761025 875550 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1383761191 547946 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383761387 441957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1383761469 64516 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1383761719 63583 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: can you mute HackEgo? < 1383761719 214516 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: laf. they are < 1383761738 781019 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a laf? is it another Nordic Delicacy, like a fternooner? < 1383761826 836949 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383761871 243707 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome prooftechnique < 1383761874 326398 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13prooftechnique: 04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07irc.dal.net.) < 1383761887 678175 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wercome boily < 1383761889 960427 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) < 1383761917 967662 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Guys < 1383761920 636998 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I be wonderin' < 1383761930 721942 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any OS in esoteric languages written around < 1383761936 504888 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deduce from that random act of wercoming that prooftechnique's already been through that ritual. < 1383761940 929178 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember hearing projects of BF OS < 1383761946 727196 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not sure if any of them came through < 1383761951 459075 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Quite so < 1383761984 399679 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched my handle to my github name < 1383761990 870374 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm usually NihilistDandy < 1383761999 797570 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooh! quite the subterfuge! < 1383762011 655442 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and an opportunity to cocoonspire you to the Wisdom Repo!) < 1383762012 497986 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a master of disguise < 1383762028 616155 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: I think the closest we have to an esoteric OS is NixOS. < 1383762068 269047 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or TempleOS, or whatever it's called now < 1383762068 749040 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: there, you are added. < 1383762079 117142 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah < 1383762084 322560 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Wisdom Repo? < 1383762099 566751 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that I'm familiar with that < 1383762111 904479 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. the /topic of this chännel ↑ < 1383762114 857794 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1383762145 364435 :Ghoul_!uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xqexsouabiraglqk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383762152 988324 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I liked it more when it was called LoseThos. < 1383762180 741541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also isn't PSOX a bit like an operating system?) < 1383762198 441571 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? < 1383762200 245436 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383762213 320202 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already my wisdom increases < 1383762217 526844 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I think now is a good moment to ask you the The Question: what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? < 1383762229 124840 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>coördinates < 1383762237 605274 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't the 20's Daddy-o < 1383762254 905532 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet. < 1383762332 606992 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to send a pull request for this alias :D < 1383762347 615024 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, let me look up coördinates < 1383762350 337228 :realz!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1383762353 420300 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have commit access. commit your heart away! < 1383762502 831479 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 whole megabytes of wisdom < 1383762510 269151 :upgrayeddd!uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vdkhgiounrhavzwt QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383762510 742478 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qtfitzjynnimxcaa QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383762511 888497 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect nothing less from #esoteric < 1383762588 20604 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some wisdom entries that I didn't get to format yet, such as “wisdom/c” and suchlike. < 1383763019 187856 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1383763168 888248 :realz!~pinky@pool-108-41-150-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383763169 39188 :realz!~pinky@pool-108-41-150-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Changing host < 1383763169 39340 :realz!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat JOIN :#esoteric < 1383763247 337881 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did I say "Benchmarks are only a good measure of surprise"? I like that, and I'm thrilled that I said it :D < 1383763266 11603 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does a random name for a language generator exist? xD < 1383763289 982095 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v, that's what spambots are for < 1383763300 430402 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download < 1383763319 879228 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not random word generation < 1383763324 153330 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1383763473 425986 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: For generating random names for D&D characters I have used an algorithm I read about somewhere and programmed in my TI-92 calculator, but I don't know if that works for your purpose. < 1383763494 307506 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what exactly you want. < 1383763499 611496 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hi! < 1383763523 540892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe FurryScript can be made to do it somehow, though. < 1383763550 742327 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just going to generate a large amount of random letters and pick the best looking one < 1383763573 313429 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1383763601 609624 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: OK, how do you want to do that? Pick letters from a Scrabble game? < 1383763622 55560 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I need to get my laptop working by Friday < 1383763624 46224 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: pwgen -c 12? < 1383763701 594781 :upgrayeddd!uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hemsjljevntpijep JOIN :#esoteric < 1383763758 525110 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add some more `? files for other esolangs and other various things too < 1383763772 171414 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? TwoDucks < 1383763773 937931 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwoDucks programming language was invented in 2023. < 1383763801 173041 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download < 1383763802 931586 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383763823 737672 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? how did I manage to miss TwoDucks? < 1383763838 289931 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, its trivial in lua < 1383763838 799242 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I added it just a few minutes ago. < 1383763854 168959 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: Ah, then use that. < 1383763867 640976 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there." > wisdom/Real\ Fast\ Nora\'s\ Hair\ Salon\ 3\:\ Shear\ Disaster\ Download < 1383763871 449263 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1383763881 946567 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download < 1383763883 905833 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383763886 784013 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I still prefer FurryScript for random text generation) < 1383763887 893204 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3\: Shear Disaster Download < 1383763889 332837 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3\: Shear Disaster Download? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383763893 996420 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I messed up < 1383763950 676389 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, this is the closest I've ever lived to London < 1383763983 907303 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the most readable functional programming language out there." > "wisdom/Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" < 1383763985 134317 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1383763992 124804 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3\: Shear Disaster Download < 1383763993 687643 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3\: Shear Disaster Download? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383763997 363612 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download < 1383763999 198349 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383764040 845471 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolang wiki even has something about Perl. < 1383764405 291345 :Ghoul_!uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpiywyyyvllgdulq JOIN :#esoteric < 1383764466 962971 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to esolang wiki. you can do anything on esolang wiki. anything at all. the only limit is yourself. welcome... to esolang wiki! < 1383764498 275020 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383764513 507386 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys. < 1383764529 866202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which people are not put on wisdom/ yet? < 1383764531 87462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1383764539 123398 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. Am I on wisdom/? < 1383764550 195516 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tswett < 1383764552 160837 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett is livin' it up with the penguins < 1383764561 917284 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, I guess I am. < 1383764575 426459 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right, I live in Antarctica. I forgot about that. < 1383764629 597333 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? NihilistDandy < 1383764631 600001 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383764637 933531 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? prooftechnique < 1383764639 908525 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1383764684 558545 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a file for LaTeX but not for TeX and Plain TeX. < 1383764708 255815 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a function that translates from the Haskell type "IO a" to the Hylisk type "World -> (Foreign a * World)". Now I'm writing a function that does the reverse. < 1383764756 875439 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I've found, there isn't an isomorphism from Hylisk's type system to part of Haskell's, but there is a homomorphism, which is really all that matters. < 1383764771 324938 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1383764776 162395 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1383764781 580361 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, if you convert a Hylisk type "A" to a Haskell type "B", then the type "B" will contain stuff that the type "A" doesn't. < 1383764811 262361 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't really matter, because any value of type "B" can be used as we expect to be able to use a value of type "A". < 1383764850 556916 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah. When my functions are composed together, the result ought to be the identity. < 1383764866 261647 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1383764985 695851 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ultimately a matter of converting something of the Haskell type "IO t" to something of the Haskell type "forall e. (IO e -> e, (t, IO e -> e) -> e) -> e". Obviously. < 1383765026 316147 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hylisk? is that Haskell with Lisp syntax for the CPython VM? < 1383765037 539032 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: astonishingly, no. < 1383765043 298030 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Haskell with a linear type system. < 1383765075 418574 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1383765079 607651 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all about substructural types now < 1383765091 89229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I don't know how such a type is supposed to work. < 1383765093 239188 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if relevance logic has any applications in programming < 1383765098 316284 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so mainstream, i'm into structsubural types < 1383765105 597903 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I barely know myself. < 1383765121 118347 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: we should invent a language with subliminal types < 1383765156 308217 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What does subliminal types means? < 1383765168 238764 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, that's why we need to invent it < 1383765174 30937 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, lemme see. So I'm importIO. I have an "IO t", an "IO e -> e" (but don't ask me what an "e" is), and a "(t, IO e -> e) -> e". I have to use all this to make an "e", in the obvious way. < 1383765186 574438 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Perhaps make it in a list of ideas < 1383765207 784278 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This task might be impossible. Hopefully it is possible, but it'll be pretty inconvenient if it turns out to be impossible. < 1383765230 800811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a system where types are inferred but can't be written down and instead of the compiler giving specific type errors it just induces a vague feeling of unease < 1383765273 5919 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java has superliminal types < 1383765285 394987 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY YOU! JOIN THE NAVY! < 1383765315 497275 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABSTRACTNAVYRECRUITFACTORYFACTORY < 1383765370 990087 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmgxvmiizqjbbewq JOIN :#esoteric < 1383765389 372069 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. If I apply liftM to the third thing there, I get "IO (t, IO e -> e) -> IO e". So I can just take my "IO t" and my "IO e -> e" and combine them to make "IO (t, IO e -> e)", and combine this with the liftM thing to get an "IO e", and then I can use the "IO e -> e" again to produce an "e". < 1383765395 24565 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, does this make sense? < 1383765463 277392 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I don't know. < 1383765542 331129 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383765704 335468 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm importIO. What am I supposed to do? I'm given a world, and I have to produce a bare value along with a new world. But a world is really just an "IO e -> e", and I'm supposed to tie actions into it by composing them with it on the right. I think. < 1383765822 696418 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sounds backwards. < 1383765906 65050 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to my notes, the "presumed way" to do things is to take this "IO t", compose it with the "IO e -> e", and drop the result into the function "(t, IO e -> e) -> e". < 1383765938 735401 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you can't combine "IO t" and "IO e -> e" together to get "(t, IO e -> e)". < 1383766047 624169 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a gamejam this weekend here and I'm entering < 1383766142 547855 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1383766146 8740 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1383766150 966244 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er whoops I was *way* scrolled back < 1383766157 999235 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pretend i was lolling at the most recent amusing thing < 1383766178 313866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was reading Taneb's speech recognition adventure < 1383766263 649335 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's exactly the same software as last time < 1383766292 853083 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, do you have any gamejam-entering advice? < 1383766295 408020 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1383766324 97260 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo, a type error I don't understand because I don't understand the code I just wrote. < 1383766358 371343 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: who does that compiler think he is?!? < 1383766394 134889 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently he thinks he's someone qualified to try to understand my code. < 1383766424 564748 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1383766784 689644 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383766813 819797 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1383766945 599301 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.40 QUIT : < 1383767479 961651 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, dang, now it works. < 1383767504 523306 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm afraid that something else will go wrong somewhere down the line. < 1383767693 98198 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe IO actions will be performed in the wrong order, or the wrong number of times... < 1383767803 226995 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383767844 587655 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1383767859 631329 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does a C compiler cache a result in a register even if there's a pointer to that variable? < 1383767878 302747 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you ask? < 1383767900 854555 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. int i; while(i < N) { /* do stuff */ i++;} < 1383767901 617477 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I expect it might only if it can prove that it won't cause it to go wrong, probably < 1383767923 878511 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you could keep i in a register and not write it back to memory after each increment < 1383767943 860904 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you could. < 1383767945 634186 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i; foo(&i); while(i < N) { /* do stuff */ i++; } < 1383767950 847629 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, is a different story < 1383767960 75098 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you ask because i might be simultaneously read by another thread or something? < 1383767981 925027 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1383767994 939649 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be, that the order in which stuff happens is different for an observing thread < 1383767997 951048 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e < 1383768052 332788 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a,b; foo(&a, &b); while(a < N) { i++; b = 5; } return i < 1383768057 817507 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1383768062 66485 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be an a there < 1383768066 697603 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the compiler caches a < 1383768089 862078 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :an obverver might see b = 5 before i changes < 1383768105 213603 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a < 1383768107 283662 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1383768124 667070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383768142 648181 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so esentially < 1383768158 595057 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might actually never change < 1383768168 957668 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can keep it cached in a register the whole time < 1383768183 507855 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1383768194 991033 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as return i wouldn't even need a writeback to memory < 1383768231 251549 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you actually doing something that depends on what C compilers do here? < 1383768258 887821 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the standard says, that concurrent modificiation is undefined behaviour < 1383768263 7022 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should at least say that < 1383768277 491911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or concurrent reads in this case < 1383768296 834134 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would hope that it says unspecified at worst. < 1383768322 483223 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :esentially a compiler should perform a writeback after a pointer to that variable has been requested < 1383768328 988537 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1383768335 818004 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure there < 1383768345 643412 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably depends on what foo does < 1383768345 794450 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1383768353 963535 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's assume the compiler is dumb and has no idea what foo does < 1383768384 815879 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question still on my mind is whether or not you're actually doing something that depends on what happens here. < 1383768410 374029 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i = 0; while(..) { i++; /* i cached inside the loop */ }; /* writeback i due to &i */ foo(&i;) < 1383768419 969467 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm writing a compiler :) < 1383768426 447148 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1383768443 636118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can'r put a semicolon inside parens like that < 1383768445 798444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can't < 1383768457 77073 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is < 1383768467 463495 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If my compiler detects, that a pointer to a variable is held < 1383768476 976271 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he forbidden to cache it later? < 1383768491 131056 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can I he just say: Screw you, that's unspecified behaviour < 1383768496 943435 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I/he < 1383768506 518617 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess is no, he can do that, but I'd suggest looking at the standard. < 1383768529 904589 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because after foo nothing could actually change i < 1383768530 566378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, restarting my window manager < 1383768536 773939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1383768545 355228 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless foo started a thread or something that is now doing cstuff with i behind my back < 1383768574 541593 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1383768574 899040 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383768575 49822 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1383768609 891012 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I would writeback to memory every time I incremented i < 1383768610 71484 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would not be safe for that thread to change i < 1383768610 222947 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question still remains: What about reads? < 1383768630 537996 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent writes are undefined anyway < 1383768657 395882 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but must that thread be able of observing a change in i? < 1383768705 20108 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I'm just using C as an example. < 1383768705 210070 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My source language is not actually c < 1383768720 947672 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer to your question depends on what the source language is. < 1383768732 311464 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems the solution is to instantiate a different thread for every value of i. that way, each thread only sees a single value, and doesn't have to worry about changes. < 1383768740 570334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383768785 926231 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's your window manager? < 1383768791 8837 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383768793 548418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Unity < 1383768832 838506 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: the question is not really "what C says" but < 1383768835 587033 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes more sense < 1383768851 202953 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm voting for: It's not well defined behaviour < 1383768857 162747 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that thread may never see a change at all. < 1383768878 948984 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, that thread might not even be scheduled before the loop completes < 1383768881 283815 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1383768885 994818 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :now comes to tricky trick < 1383768924 763404 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/jV9wdikK < 1383768934 589466 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- what if the loop only terminates, if the thread detected a change < 1383768985 690479 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1383768998 41398 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's acceptable (but not desirable) for the main thread to loop forever, never yielding to the child thread. < 1383769065 330985 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta go. Adiós. < 1383769073 43911 :tswett!2328a7a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.167.168 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1383769350 64755 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1383769365 22999 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1383769389 835861 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1383769875 263184 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif < 1383769915 799312 :J_M!~J_M@186.14.69.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383769963 101131 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome J_M < 1383769965 775652 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​02J_M: 06Welcome 13to 04the 07international 08hub 09for 02esoteric 06programming 13language 04design 07and 08deployment! 09For 02more 06information, 13check 04out 07our 08wiki: 09. 02(For 06the 13other 04kind 07of 08esoterica, 09try 02#esoteric 06on 13irc.dal.net.) < 1383770078 940810 :J_M!~J_M@186.14.69.44 PART :#esoteric < 1383770291 982381 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another Venezuelian scared away... < 1383770660 182840 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383770720 944244 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. apparentely using signals in C is undefined. < 1383770735 205193 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and async callbacks < 1383770754 509995 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why real programmers only use ada. < 1383770778 695811 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e < 1383770785 806020 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(dontstop); < 1383770793 227114 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1383770798 498518 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int sigint_handler() { dontstop = 0; } < 1383770815 297863 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler can reason that, since you never call sigint_handler yourself < 1383770816 313108 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dontstop believin < 1383770822 26780 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that dontstop is never changed in your code < 1383770834 42368 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION strikes Bike with a hardcopy of the Ravenscar Profile < 1383770840 450902 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may replace while(dontstop) with while(1); < 1383770841 151830 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: is that so even if it's declared volatile? < 1383770841 603787 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what "volatile" is for < 1383770870 501663 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if dontstop is a volatile sig_atomic_t that might be well-defined in C+POSIX (C itself doesn't say anything about signals, obviously) < 1383770870 835114 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. yeah < 1383770874 924360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :signals are ♫ the worst ♫ though < 1383770879 582525 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :“volatile” tells the compiler “don't you dare optimising my variable away, you crapshoot”. < 1383770900 574618 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know about sig_atomic_t, thanks olsner < 1383770905 586392 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tholsner < 1383770922 252769 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Until C++11, which introduced std::atomic and std::atomic_signal_fence, about the only thing a strictly conforming program could do in a signal handler was to assign a value to a volatile static std::sig_atomic_t variable and promptly return." < 1383770935 969362 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fantastic < 1383770936 587597 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way in plain C to use volatile except for setjmp/longjmp? < 1383770943 558506 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1383770992 524956 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was originally added for mov-triggered architecture sorts of things < 1383771009 980841 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1383771011 858324 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory mapped hardware < 1383771030 398113 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but C itself doesn't really have memory mapped IO (nor threads), does it? < 1383771031 831107 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if that's "plain C" < 1383771047 14302 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://mitpress.mit.edu/covers/9780262019538.jpg btw my field has better book covers than yours < 1383771049 194166 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: GPIO on microcontrollers. it's essential to declare that stuff volatile. < 1383771100 962681 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :volatile int* gpio_thingy = [what goes here that's defined behavior by C?] < 1383771105 483551 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1383771199 183717 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I suppose it's still pretty useful to have C-defined behavior when talking to those things, even if all the pieces don't necessarily come from C < 1383771245 934011 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you defined? < 1383771246 181328 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: hen. it is but so so, now fnord < 1383771406 377955 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: fungot is fnord behavior < 1383771407 31301 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: second lord. it is too long; which makes it fiue and twenty yeares, and then why should we, in the smoake of warre: and formerly according to our appointment, when we were at work: my old master the iew to sup to night with a harlotry: and thither will i bring thee valentine < 1383771653 689860 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: FNORD EAX, 0x2A < 1383771654 227882 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: fabian. is't so, indeed? we men may say more, than tigers of hyrcania. see, by ten mile. for fnord being dead, i tell thee, iacke cade the fnord means to dress the commonwealth, as which of you saw eglamoure of late? ophe. my honor'd lord < 1383771671 426643 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1383771671 615796 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1383771722 322823 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: rep fnords < 1383771722 553081 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ( do we have? the translations are quite good. how dies sisc compare to plt?' < 1383771741 602968 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1383771913 339935 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you read your SICP today? < 1383771977 40915 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no. no no no no no no no. < 1383771984 409162 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs in fear far away from Slereah < 1383772032 952464 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.126.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm searching for scans of a Polish computer magazine called "Enter". Has anyone ever heard of it? < 1383772051 566973 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.126.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not having much luck, probably due to the name... < 1383772064 252165 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that name translated? < 1383772074 410744 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily seems to be deathly afraid of snakes < 1383772088 951715 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :snakes? < 1383772093 594580 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNAKES < 1383772108 733335 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fuuka.warosu.org/data/lit/img/0037/37/1368047172925.gif < 1383772110 754357 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snaaaakes < 1383772163 728405 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/jp/image/1335/81/1335810578462.jpg < 1383772168 263199 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNAAAAKE?!? < 1383772187 879961 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/wizard.jpg < 1383772192 986497 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming could use more wizards < 1383772253 136770 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme code with lots of defines is the worst < 1383772268 961019 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it < 1383772271 266494 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE BEST < 1383772276 213755 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.126.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's the original name. I've found a few copies on eBay, but that's about all. < 1383772283 288230 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1383772333 552545 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scheme allows you to do crazy things: (define + -) (define define 3)" < 1383772334 994565 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1383772367 451668 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :john_metcalf: well my library doesn't happen, but searching "Enter" does turn up some Lost episodes. < 1383772400 506925 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Disc 3 (Episodes 9-12). Stranger in a strange land ; Tricia Tanaka is dead ; Enter 77 ; Par avion -- < 1383772435 126933 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdj6deraQ6k < 1383772436 480263 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god < 1383772460 189943 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :john_metcalf: they have a website at enter.pl, but I can't read Polish. < 1383772474 319543 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of the Finnish computer magazine called "Enter", but that probably won't help. < 1383772483 327254 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: and, uh, why snakes? < 1383772519 814493 :Oj742!irc2gowebc@host-225-168.pubnet.pdx.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1383772520 501303 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a fucking clue < 1383772526 855036 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.114.126.86 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boily: found that and translated some with Google translate. It doesn't look like they have an online archive. < 1383772527 6325 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an old /prog/ meme < 1383772530 967300 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and WHAT THE FUNGOT IS THAT VIDEO? < 1383772531 118382 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know where it came from < 1383772536 361268 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the SICP snake < 1383772545 532004 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enquiring about your daily reading of SICP < 1383772559 205166 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall having stored a copy about that somewhere... < 1383772575 880883 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That video is what Scheme is all about < 1383772662 958595 :tswett!23288cff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.140.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383772680 576952 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sings “一二三 一二三 one two three one two three いち に さん!♪” < 1383772727 831879 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383772728 173759 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some guy mentioning SICP and then someone else said "is that just your way of saying I'VE READ SICP" and then "I'VE READ SICP" became a /prog/ meme < 1383772749 185002 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why the snake! < 1383772808 403929 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneously someone else made a postscript file of a snake and posted it in a thread called "the /prog/snake" i think? and someone else put two and two together < 1383772831 111629 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddeep < 1383772831 520490 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is /prog/ that 4chan thing < 1383772832 326122 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1383772835 392717 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1383772836 388743 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the snake says! SICP-SICP-SICP-SICP-SICP-SICP-SICP! < 1383772842 727685 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the TOP SECRET boards < 1383772844 501474 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Textboard) < 1383772857 489250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :An antagonistic snake would make more sense. (See: Python replacing Scheme in the MIT course.) < 1383772879 168038 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid that now, Scheme is all snake < 1383772900 426184 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among the programming animals, such as the Ocaml camel or... < 1383772903 539159 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The B bee? < 1383772911 40290 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the B language still exist < 1383772935 813432 :tswett!23288cff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.140.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turned out to have ceased to exist long before anyone realized it no longer existed. < 1383772946 384428 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is B the anti-Feather? < 1383772947 8748 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the antagonist is, in the /prog/ canon, "the Abelson": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdj6deraQ6k < 1383772963 74572 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://mitpress.mit.edu/covers/9780262518420.jpg my programming language < 1383772967 175727 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :book. thing < 1383772995 37330 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. the snake is in this too. i should just link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdj6deraQ6k when people ask me about /prog/ always < 1383773012 468634 :tswett!23288cff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.140.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, gee, now what. I guess writing an "apply" function might end up being useful eventually. < 1383773012 926255 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the factorial of seven is also in this... amazing < 1383773018 740248 :tswett!23288cff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.140.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of a useful function. < 1383773021 586617 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool how the sinuses (or whatever) look like a mustache < 1383773027 815617 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl : Same link! < 1383773034 882627 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I already gave before, anyway! < 1383773170 513026 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. excellent < 1383773210 982173 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.zazzle.com/my_other_car_is_a_cdr_bumper_stickers-128776132386843273 < 1383773217 840876 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four bucks for a sticker? < 1383773221 922178 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What madness is this! < 1383773236 441015 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: un un deux trois cinq poulet < 1383773241 70859 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383773463 954549 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/gRbwf.png apparently jwz is on 4chan now, taking screens < 1383773502 975678 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha burn < 1383773520 180017 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where is this /prog/? < 1383773532 543328 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell < 1383773561 939317 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that* /prog/ is gone, but the current /prog/, which is (even more) complete shit, is http://dis.4chan.org/prog/ < 1383773585 834261 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to point out that "dis" is indeed part of hell, in dante < 1383773604 751239 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best board is actually http://dis.4chan.org/vip/ < 1383773848 431671 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383774024 104386 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1383774156 445375 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383774173 286294 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383774214 246468 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383774358 291544 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1383774446 231756 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1383774455 827236 :Oj742!irc2gowebc@host-225-168.pubnet.pdx.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1383774470 85096 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1383774644 376194 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383774683 755672 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1383775099 682426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to I append to a @ list in Perl? < 1383775130 49333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :push @foo, 'x'; is popular. < 1383775165 352378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1383775181 974569 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I did the rest of the program correctly. < 1383775191 288279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to modify a Perl program. < 1383775209 355522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically, @foo = (@foo, 'x') would also work, but I think 'push' is the usual thing for appending. < 1383775513 517457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383775548 851221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or $foo[scalar @foo] = 'x'; < 1383775555 578626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :push is probably clearest, though < 1383775561 320230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think the compiler optimizes it into what I just wrote < 1383775689 111214 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/History_Pics/status/397393751527919616 golf used to be more exciting i guess < 1383775720 913648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I had $foo[@foo] = 'x' and $foo[$#foo+1] = 'x' all written up, but decided not to. < 1383775736 508329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think that needs a "scalar".) < 1383775747 15384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, @foo[@foo] = 'x' would though < 1383775782 228228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many ways. < 1383775823 431113 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383775849 503709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :splice @foo, @foo, 0, 'x'; too. < 1383776039 697211 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :splice @foo, -1, 1, $foo[-1], 'x'; < 1383776426 582526 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1383776460 222131 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383776869 691253 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1383776907 765932 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah once again I am painfully aware of the leftist positive reinforcement bubble I live in < 1383776985 427014 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORRECT, CITIZEN < 1383777026 795881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ? < 1383777065 953798 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was reading an article I saw on reddit, basically saying that the tories sucked, slowly nodding in agreement < 1383777071 445986 :tswett!23288cff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.140.255 TOPIC #esoteric :Pregnant memory client sialic Guillen Puede yen Ten del Est | Koirammekokaan ei lennä? :( | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1383777076 187531 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I realised there was almost nothing but tory-bashing < 1383777081 848427 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little actual content < 1383777091 814808 :tswett!23288cff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.40.140.255 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1383777098 965629 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just factoids for me to memorize and recite at those who disagree < 1383777099 116525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: if it helps, I normally vote Conservative (although I didn't last election) < 1383777100 245400 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit is great for creating echo chambers like that < 1383777102 887599 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't read redditn < 1383777106 793645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm well aware that I'm in the minority among my age group < 1383777115 840965 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to troll /r/atheism but that got old too < 1383777121 198768 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My family all vote conservative, although in general I don't < 1383777136 56674 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I'm not sure if there are any non-trolls in /r/atheism < 1383777168 201465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they mostly troll in the other direction, then? < 1383777178 964973 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1383777182 621649 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said unpopular things that quickly got downvoted < 1383777224 268476 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as that if you want to blame the holocaust on hitler being a christian then you can also blame atheism for stalin < 1383777237 256999 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tory-bashing sounded like this was just going to be a big awful toribash pun < 1383777296 66810 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My childhood spent in a tory family with a lot of labour friends has left me with few to vote for < 1383777305 6165 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: DID YOU KNOW THAT KING DAVID WAS JEWISH? < 1383777313 475730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you currently able to take the Lib Dems seriously? < 1383777329 885645 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, but I can't take any of the other big parties seriously either < 1383777337 119064 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I end up voting for lib dems anyway < 1383777341 722710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the small parties? < 1383777359 419906 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, like that white supremacist one. I imagine they're a fun bunch < 1383777361 357700 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They so far haven't ran in elections where I've voted for < 1383777375 99961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1383777398 699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which constituency is hexham in anyway? < 1383777413 100559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to Birmingham which is lots of constituencies < 1383777418 410293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Hexham's probably just a fraction of one < 1383777432 940303 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in Hexham < 1383777446 197408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's a constituency of its own? < 1383777448 515562 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is by area I think one of the largest in England < 1383777453 885680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1383777521 536923 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, both times I've voted (once in the Police Commissioners election, once in a county council election), there have been precisely four candidates < 1383777541 317881 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One labour, one tory, one lib dem, and one ukip < 1383777552 749510 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1383777589 237745 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1383777659 389169 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both times, I've voted lib dem, and both times, the lib dems have outright lost < 1383777663 232512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you removed the check for number of edits? btw i tried to test run it, but nothing matched... oh wait we've already deleted those :D < 1383777669 449508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1383777679 513441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that the edit count check might be causing the rule to not match < 1383777690 298186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then match when I test ran it because the users had a different number of edits then < 1383777693 606358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently not < 1383777701 256136 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/20131025151332] < 1383777887 293597 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1383777912 673007 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/genometweet useful service < 1383778096 753139 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383778177 349342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok now it blocks _me_ from starting my user page with a header so it must be doing _something_. < 1383778188 37124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1383778191 185228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with the new section button < 1383778194 940023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the bots are using < 1383778223 533156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh... < 1383778236 642054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the button doesn't appear on user pages < 1383778245 675771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to get that via link editing < 1383778307 782271 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the people writing these spambots at least have the decency to write them in an esolang < 1383778323 10803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: the people writing them aren't the people running them < 1383778337 345653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oooh i think i know why it doesn't work... < 1383778340 665049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: go on < 1383778370 798678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when using add section, there are _no_ literal ==s added by the user, it's in a different form field... < 1383778385 126724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, could work < 1383778436 240396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this means something disturbing, let's check... < 1383778522 441770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no, for some reason editing a section does not trigger the filter. < 1383778545 36723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the edit area does start with == then < 1383778557 184668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1383778609 534 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiN6Ag5-DrU < 1383778668 217677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh i know i forgot an important test. trying again... < 1383778792 69214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no i didn't, sheesh. oh well trying anyhow. < 1383778851 535106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1383778869 332258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the new section button gets round abusefilter < 1383778874 286252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that may be why the spambots are using it < 1383778900 87542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no. < 1383778913 356170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't. i just managed to trigger it. < 1383778924 320329 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen Phantom_Hoover < 1383778929 292256 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-11-04 23:35:04: imho keep fnord forever < 1383778963 987746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok it's _not_ that, the filter triggered this time. < 1383778984 887141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there is some weirdness... < 1383779018 320365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's clearly weirdness < 1383779021 409062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot_hoover < 1383779021 629754 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think it's pretty clear, i think it's bbls that's confused. perl is a lisp < 1383779023 284726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just not sure what sort of weirdness yet < 1383779035 67903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok trying the really bad stuff < 1383779037 547352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"perl is a lisp" is gold :) < 1383779164 47930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: darn creating my page anew did _not_ trigger the filter. < 1383779195 799974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we know that in general, it can trigger on page creations < 1383779199 219457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 1/2/3 do that all the time < 1383779219 326235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if those pages didn't crash when we tried to load them... < 1383779222 978228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1383779233 984900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 4 doesn't work properly /because/ it doesn't crash on load < 1383779240 155599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you may be able to load them indirectly < 1383779244 550985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via the batch tester < 1383779253 385308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a button to copy the filter condition from a filter < 1383779264 996541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could get at their conditions, even if you couldn't edit them < 1383779434 897409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right lessee < 1383779488 723330 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:4ccb:4b22:4803:ac44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383779803 495920 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT : < 1383779816 264769 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do today < 1383779884 846212 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, which day is that? < 1383779902 807040 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.26 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my today is a different day to oerjan's, for example < 1383779906 710374 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1383779949 449287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nr. 1 just has user_editcount == 0 but i guess you modified that in 4 as a wild guess to why it wasn't working. < 1383779956 926540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1383780109 56873 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1383780125 691720 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1383780138 597516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok next question, why don't my blocked edits show up in the abuse log (for any of the filters) < 1383780159 877423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: possibly because you're an admin < 1383780181 552075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddammit < 1383780209 684897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is a 40something error the right result to get on a blocked edit < 1383780226 357755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you get a warning, if "Warn" is set < 1383780251 6607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Warn is only set on nr. 1 afair < 1383780268 208429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, to avoid blocking legitimate users < 1383780316 317241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i cannot be bothered to make another account just to test things. < 1383780346 857927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did on Wikipedia, eventually < 1383780351 928695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah MediaWiki's a mess < 1383780471 573285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this feeling the world is approaching the bug singularity this year. < 1383780569 992210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE11 managed to add a bug that makes tab groups dissolve occasionally when you close tabs in them. :( < 1383780607 900342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did fix one bug that had annoyed me in IE10 though. < 1383780888 826459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ais523: i'd like to point out that _all_ of the filters, not just 4, stopped registering anything in the abuse log after Nov 5. < 1383780900 183829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while having plenty of hits on that day. < 1383780904 305027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah but I haven't seen any edits that would have hit 1, 2, or 3 < 1383780922 636483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because I did a bunch of rangeblocks on that day < 1383780923 914741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case, maybe something is wrong with the _logging_? < 1383780928 239039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. maybe so. < 1383781033 225356 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1383781891 179473 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.160.127 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds