< 1384819434 906075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: hmm, didn't you categories package define a category of adjunctions < 1384819437 752903 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How possible is a language like Haskell but with support for object-oriented programming < 1384819459 810555 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: People have tried various things. < 1384819486 501097 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That says it all < 1384819502 569201 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google object-oriented haskell < 1384819503 760954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5414323/does-haskell-support-object-oriented-programming < 1384819503 918768 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Does Haskell support object oriented programming - Stack Overflow < 1384819521 936746 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for some bizarre reason I have to write blog posts about computer science for my uni course) < 1384819532 817274 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also comment on other people's blog) < 1384819536 449173 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384819547 535755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: why don't you figure out chu spaces for me instead < 1384819554 101433 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(me and some friends are writing controversial posts because they are easy to comment on) < 1384819555 818259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(checkmate) < 1384819564 328179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Wow, no break-in period! < 1384819570 892159 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm writing one about why Haskell's a great language, and one of my friends is writing a similar post about C++) < 1384819586 295435 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* C++? < 1384819609 298054 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion, he has similar opinions of Haskell as I do of C++ < 1384819643 189703 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, as long as we can provide citations, easy-to-disagree-with is good < 1384819828 445988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When you place your order, you can select our cable break-in service, selectable through a drop down box in the shopping cart for that cable product. Prices vary with the cable model and level of break-in desired." < 1384819846 413141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Our cables require a total of 400 to 500 hours to completely break in. If you ordered our 2 day cable break-in service, your cables will arrive with the equivalent of 96 hours on them. If you ordered the extended 5 day breakin, the equivalent of 240 hours will be on them." < 1384819886 533674 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that’s customer service. < 1384819934 453513 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comments: Personally i think this cable is so fast it has changed the phase relationship (or corrected it) by 180 degrees above 60hz, the bass is so tight it sounds like the bass is coming from my speakers. < 1384819975 44648 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-161.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384819980 940730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: And it only costs $25 bucks for the 5-day extended breakin! (Two days is free!) < 1384819991 546700 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa! What a bargain! < 1384820013 614122 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-161.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384820118 740223 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384820165 925688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20009082-47.html CNET teaches you the difference between analog and digital: digital is dotted. < 1384820180 973183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choice quote: "Every sound you hear in real life that doesn't come out of a speaker is analog." < 1384820205 932389 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Theoretically have an infinite resolution", nice < 1384820259 631319 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1384820303 850890 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analog is always "on," digital is either on or off. < 1384820326 494314 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol this is great < 1384820339 978539 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :go over the advantages of digital and then be like "but anyway analog sounds better" < 1384820344 92971 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :"analog", "infinite resolution" what? < 1384820349 34028 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Like, Cold And Impersonal, Man < 1384820366 508516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I end up on an audiophile web-crawl I get this feeling maybe we should just get rid of ears in general. < 1384820372 357814 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "CDs have a 16-bit resolution and DVD-Audio discs can be encoded with a maximum of 24-bit resolution" < 1384820385 455739 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even ignoring the band-limitedness of human senses, reality is quantised. < 1384820412 266242 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Sigh. < 1384820421 416082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Analog recording's theoretically infinite resolution refers to its continuity, compared with digital's on/off sampled nature." See, it's that simple. < 1384820434 891710 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame elementary signal processing is relatively obscure. < 1384820447 30542 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shannon is my god, man < 1384820476 608742 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't accusing anyone *here* of being this ignorant. Just CNET. :) < 1384820489 841218 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i know less signal processing than i'd like :( < 1384820501 278525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Anyway they both "still fall short in creating truly life-like sound", so you can use either. < 1384820528 44168 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank goodness < 1384820557 170267 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yeah, but you at least know Shannon. < 1384820582 650336 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :neuronal coding is kind of awesomely all over the place btw, sometimes it reasonably makes sense as frequency coding and sometimes a transient stimulus of one photon causes a response < 1384820615 753036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1384820619 882991 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :helmc < 1384820628 17169 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kello? < 1384820632 607029 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :And presumably also know about quantization noise. < 1384820634 385604 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be what's after jello < 1384820666 619163 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not by that name, at least :/ < 1384820680 67180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: g'daymc < 1384820697 551701 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quantization_error.png oh, yeah, that's simple enough < 1384820703 171091 :Darklust!~darklust@unaffiliated/darklust QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384820713 114486 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly another data point (!) saying analog is superior. < 1384820720 335711 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384820744 851427 :Darklust!~darklust@cpe-67-249-5-193.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384820934 433097 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cept that quantization noise, for 16-bit audio, is like -90 dB. < 1384820968 520276 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that might be the lowest dB measurement i've ever heard of < 1384821027 657329 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that here the maximum volume is 0 dB. < 1384821062 594598 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 24-bit noise floor is, uh, -145 dB. < 1384821074 53307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rane.com/pi14.html heh :) < 1384821082 399641 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Look at that list of features.) < 1384821083 526632 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :24-bit isn't (16-bit) * 1.5? < 1384821107 675035 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: No, each extra bit doubles the precision of the samples. < 1384821123 521372 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 90 ** 1.5 < 1384821124 901177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric : 853.8149682454624 < 1384821125 59056 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, in db < 1384821133 426699 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1384821142 629244 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (**) < 1384821143 414543 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating a => a -> a -> a < 1384821148 867617 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 8-bit is 45db and 16-bit is 90db would 24-bit be 135...? < 1384821152 795760 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have underestimated **1.5. < 1384821175 517702 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: It'd be, like, log_10(2^8)? < 1384821214 451973 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: niiiiice < 1384821248 106123 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, except that a change by a factor of 10 is a 10dB change. < 1384821259 144222 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that'd be... 10*log_10(2^8)? < 1384821300 767313 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... 24 dB? Hum. < 1384821325 329158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :20*, I believe. Because of power/magnitude and blahblah. < 1384821333 556570 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, 20* < 1384821345 888508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pagnitude < 1384821349 833286 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes it work. 48dB. < 1384821376 493271 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the actual number for 16 bits is -96 dB, so hey. < 1384821404 128648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0.5*96 is 48. :p < 1384821408 566629 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup! < 1384821453 610192 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, a vuvuzela is 120dB. < 1384821458 766002 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know dB are just as confusing as the last time i cared about dB < 1384821498 323882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: imo use cents instead? < 1384821516 781069 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good mo < 1384821518 171168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :1200 cents/octave, it's perfect < 1384821519 731695 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :cB? < 1384821531 938194 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the unit where you use e? nats? < 1384821551 149425 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... yeah. 16-bit 44.1 kHz is perfect for those of us who don't care about listening to the grand vuvuzela orchestra at actual volume. < 1384821551 757356 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was nats for information... < 1384821552 197447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use e < 1384821552 593028 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the power being compared to again when using a dB value as an “absolute” value? < 1384821554 886439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unnatural < 1384821577 585400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It's the e-bit, yes. < 1384821577 806151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: have you learned about chu spaces yet < 1384821585 759382 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i care about chu spaces < 1384821594 251916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're great < 1384821626 969286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on they generalize topological spaces and vector spaces and a zillion things apparently?? < 1384821663 985085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: It's very context-dependent. < 1384821674 236862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, uh, games? < 1384821684 663206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :look i don't know that's why you read these papers for me < 1384821686 290142 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 µPa 10e−12 W/m² or 10e−12 W apparently. < 1384821696 951730 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i want to generalize all those things though < 1384821697 607675 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :comma after the µPa < 1384821702 701802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just the usual for dBA. < 1384821717 312989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is also A-weighted.) < 1384821730 637711 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking due to For comparison, a vuvuzela is 120dB. < 1384821737 488148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1384821744 957883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you generalize anything < 1384821750 269958 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384821757 35010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw a chu space is just a matrix < 1384821762 361161 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1384821765 481788 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Ah. Well, if you set the noise floor of a CD at 0, the loudest sound it can represent is 96dB. < 1384821766 531129 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What chu say? < 1384821786 51140 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :differentiation is just a matrix. < 1384821795 28035 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Matrix is just a matrix. < 1384821797 830905 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, is there an algebraic structure that captures the idea of 'complemet'? I've been thinking some about that < 1384821804 86283 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :solidity is just a matrix < 1384821817 78324 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :complement* even < 1384821822 115344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "acoustic decibel" zero is (very) approximately at the threshold of hearing. < 1384821833 134691 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be very approximate indeed < 1384821939 96784 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384821976 863777 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :The figures get better with noise shaping. (you can make the quantization noise lie in bands humans don't hear so well, making the *effective* noise floor in the bands we care about lower; about -120dB) < 1384821977 835424 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very. But it's at least some sort of a justification for the level. < 1384822071 529886 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, never mind my earlier line.. < 1384822178 339445 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: differentiation is just a matrix? < 1384822240 271680 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a linear operator < 1384822319 803989 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with an infinite-dimensional vector spaces? < 1384822338 486171 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, f(x+ε)=f(x)+f'(x)ε... < 1384822376 865510 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes? < 1384822388 12874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that even have a basis < 1384822388 900992 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo no < 1384822420 161020 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think you could extrapolate the duals to infinite-dimensional vector spaces. < 1384822471 210369 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have one delta function for every real (or w/e) < 1384822536 758746 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also do something easier like just polynomials, if you want, i guess. < 1384822993 860458 :Darklust!~darklust@cpe-67-249-5-193.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1384823128 335948 :Darklust!~darklust@cpe-67-249-5-193.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384823304 596141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh, http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/Chu+construction < 1384823980 519811 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384824070 813358 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384825922 973123 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384826347 695399 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I never wrote one, but Saizan or xplat might have < 1384826396 985412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Well, do you know anything good about that category? < 1384826459 924184 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what are objects and morphisms in it? < 1384826472 951646 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objects are categories, morphisms are pairs of adjoint functors. < 1384826545 567588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can pick which direction it goes -- let's say an adjunction : C ~~> D is a pair (F : D -> C, G : C -> D, F -| G) < 1384826552 701354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it goes in the direction of the right adjoint. < 1384826625 465716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since there are no functor to the empty category, I guess there are no adjunctions either to or from it. < 1384826663 345075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adjunctions to/from a singleton category correspond to terminal/initial objects in the other category. < 1384827016 650269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in general adjunctions are weird so I don't know. < 1384827123 137886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have products or something? Certainly it doesn't have an initial/terminal object. < 1384828125 447886 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-161.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1384828168 98005 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT : < 1384828327 715205 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-145.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384828427 355948 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-18-196.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384828948 714624 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384829005 701022 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1384829020 560954 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to think about it some more < 1384829121 297604 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's complaint about Elixir arguably applies to Rust < 1384829130 145779 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps less so, but still applies IMO < 1384829308 330772 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were complaining about rebindable variables. Not about making mutable structures with them (which I had previously strawmanned that sort of complaint as), but about being able to read a code and finding where the variables it mentions are adjusted. < 1384829342 236309 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it seems to me that Rust owned pointers, even non-mut, could still end up changing between declaration and use, and that that needs to be known. Although getting that wrong is a compile-time error, so it's less bad < 1384829391 542181 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384829629 852557 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1384829989 248892 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1384830027 398230 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to figure out if there's some set of numbers where evaluating if a number is in that set is turing complete < 1384830087 33364 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a recursive set? < 1384830088 897621 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aside from encoding a program in some real language into a number and then the number is in the set if it runs) < 1384830108 77801 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would have to be a recursive set yeah < 1384830123 449112 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though maybe it's possible to do it with a plain function < 1384830210 615866 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something in the style of the collatz sequence < 1384830641 582285 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1384830714 959342 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1384830778 917241 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1384831026 343887 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg bike can you give me an estimate of when the ai winter began and ended? < 1384831057 550583 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm no good with dates. < 1384831084 699570 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should make a bot that takes messages beginning with space < 1384831088 761227 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thanks < 1384831101 789855 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia would probably be better than me. < 1384831177 443858 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says 87 to 93 < 1384831198 484103 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I have to find more modern paper to read then < 1384831208 843051 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :paper on what? < 1384831366 663393 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case knowledge representation, but I'm trying to get familiar with case based reasoning < 1384831410 403098 :Darklust!~darklust@cpe-67-249-5-193.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god < 1384831421 894849 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the rdf docs or whatever < 1384831479 711155 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer to avoid learning more than a rough overview knowledge representation < 1384831520 793752 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ontology is a word that gives me a slight rash < 1384831599 792969 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384831611 320397 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: then i recommend "Ramón Llull's Thinking Machine" and "John Wilkins' Analytical Language". < 1384831616 811654 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1384831619 317469 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu NICK :Bike < 1384831626 808719 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS < 1384831692 379061 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woops capslock < 1384831715 479516 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-18-196.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384831723 257590 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE WELCOME < 1384832371 914794 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF_qQYrCcns < 1384833583 116235 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wercome hackego < 1384833585 553767 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego: エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て：　http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ） < 1384835651 787243 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that’s waisis < 1384835700 842867 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PART :#esoteric < 1384835727 439527 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's Japanese < 1384837095 75642 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know there is a book series about sexual encounters with dinosaurs < 1384837163 802676 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/10-real-book-covers-from-dinosaur-on-human-sex-novels/ < 1384837669 552447 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1384837975 695987 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks truncated. "irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）" it should be. < 1384837989 144602 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact I thought that's what I had typed when I wrote that. < 1384838011 438508 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the purpose of `wercome < 1384838022 479059 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME < 1384838025 20576 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: . (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1384838106 956349 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, is the "hackego: " text what made it too long? < 1384838107 267668 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wwalcome < 1384838108 588699 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wwalcome: not found < 1384838110 37841 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wercome < 1384838112 445195 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て：　http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ） < 1384838112 820993 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls w* < 1384838114 457451 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access w*: No such file or directory < 1384838117 344124 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is. < 1384838118 577965 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha. < 1384838121 450473 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin/w* < 1384838123 9331 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /bin/w*: No such file or directory < 1384838129 783672 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /bin/w* < 1384838131 907379 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/which < 1384838142 572058 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls w* < 1384838144 353823 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead. < 1384838162 916444 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah certainly wisdom starts with w. < 1384838179 435391 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welkom < 1384838180 513353 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welkom: not found < 1384838185 730992 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`Welkom < 1384838186 773424 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Welkom: not found < 1384838188 744841 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1384838194 691774 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384838326 798117 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384838334 562993 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Welkom < 1384838336 742886 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welkom bij het internationaal centrum voor het ontwerpen en implementeren van esoterische programmeertalen! Voor meer informatie, bezoek de wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Voor de andere soort esoterie is er #esoteric op irc.dal.net.) < 1384838362 219030 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384838482 753977 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384838625 240152 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384840129 750881 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384841203 109377 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Btw, is there an algebraic structure that captures the idea of 'complemet'? I've been thinking some about that" boolean algebra maybe? < 1384841450 394142 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384841510 360258 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(" a recursive set?" being recursive is an _upper_ bound for complexity) < 1384841532 534992 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1384841929 695936 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384842158 23133 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Client Quit < 1384842223 412907 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384842497 180163 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp pikhq < 1384842504 568220 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :does * not work in filenames with mv? < 1384842682 342053 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384842973 186247 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -d w* < 1384842975 171339 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead. < 1384843023 872203 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls . < 1384843025 885227 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ file \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ mind \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf < 1384843064 423885 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384843067 741368 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1384843085 611343 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome adu < 1384843088 409062 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​09adu: 02Welcome 06to 13the 04international 07hub 08for 09esoteric 02programming 06language 13design 04and 07deployment! 08For 09more 02information, 06check 13out 04our 07wiki: 08. 09(For 02the 06other 13kind 04of 07esoterica, 08try 09#esoteric 02on 06irc.dal.net.) < 1384843154 185315 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1384843173 135425 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried deploying a language once < 1384843183 368666 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get very far < 1384843225 579335 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. must have been a very complicated language. < 1384843233 680908 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a scheme clone < 1384843236 503354 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://andydude.github.io/droscheme/ < 1384843254 50892 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i am deploying right now, and in under a week, i have a working prototype and a boatload of example programs) < 1384843267 139244 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1384843281 274929 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because the language is danged simple) < 1384843284 637110 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in metaprogramming now < 1384843311 272117 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a complete numerical tower < 1384843322 847456 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: up to complex < 1384843328 504373 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1384843331 86073 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and strict rationals < 1384843351 230003 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some schemes do 1/2 => 0.5, which is not using a rational object < 1384843368 833574 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should there be a difference in a high level language < 1384843385 781284 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm < 1384843388 235952 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you imply that precision is lost < 1384843396 417323 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some operations < 1384843404 979127 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not precision that's lost, it's exactness that's lost < 1384843418 919055 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know the difference < 1384843421 809893 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1384843428 318336 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i do but i still don't know what you mean < 1384843429 99226 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precision is continuous < 1384843432 847749 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactness is binary < 1384843447 901883 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1384843459 877609 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, you could make the argument that exactness is infinite precision < 1384843468 21469 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, 0.33333... does not equal 1/3 no matter how many 3's you put < 1384843473 72810 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384843500 646961 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, if you say exactness is infinite precision, then precision is also lost < 1384843563 671851 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, droscheme is also an experiment in metaprogramming for me < 1384843567 628298 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler is at least < 1384843573 875005 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exactness is binary" do you mean to be exact is to conform to the ieee specification? < 1384843781 427530 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1384843801 899445 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ieee specifies operations within a given preciison < 1384843838 429618 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if you do (acos -1), then even though -1 is an exact number, the output will be inexact, i.e.: pi < 1384843881 915299 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever double-precision object best represents pi < 1384843916 282765 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i made this minigolf "game" some weeks ago, where there are some lines and a ball bounces off of them < 1384843933 809376 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 11 bounces, the number usually has something like 100 digits < 1384843955 345281 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the position & direction < 1384843967 986501 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers representing those i mean < 1384843980 137997 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i mean the numerator and denominator of those numbers < 1384844005 34039 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is rationals are funnnn < 1384844018 536355 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384844048 140248 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of things I wanted to try out was the whole "exact real" concept < 1384844065 536752 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially how Mathematica does things < 1384844107 575251 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is stored symbolically, then when you ask for 50 decimal places, it calculates everything, then when you ask for 2000 decimal places, it calculates it again from scratch < 1384844116 989114 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hope was to make a puzzle game where you have to solve hole-in-one problems, where some of the levels can be passed only if you solve some big math conjecture < 1384844160 160502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently such systems are not known to be able to simulate turing machines < 1384844178 64423 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1384844180 813862 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a closely related model is one where for each wall you have a specific direction in which the ball bounces < 1384844195 854807 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of an episode of Elementary < 1384844198 37204 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in mine, it's a "physically correct" bounce) < 1384844216 325675 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the closely related model, apparently from 3d on you can simulate arbitrary computation < 1384844233 30338 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with rotational momentum and table-top friction? < 1384844248 557304 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what if some of the walls are interlinked, so that a bounce against one wall removes another wall and causes a third to pop-up. i bet you could do arbitrary circuits that way. < 1384844251 445439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a reflection over the normal < 1384844254 389002 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the quotes < 1384844263 682576 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: or portals < 1384844314 871015 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: surely, but that's not as cool as having a turing machine running in the decimal extension of your rationals. < 1384844338 840685 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: maybe it would let you have that too < 1384844371 414991 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1384844381 634862 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmm, couldn't you simulate fractran by clever wall placement? < 1384844407 169088 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's pretty much what has been done in 3d for the one with bounces in constant directions < 1384844420 748294 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1384844428 656461 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except usually people simulate affine functions < 1384844430 439257 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1384844458 528875 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaddyacallem functions which are affine in some way in some places and affine in another way in other places. < 1384844495 305397 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a 2d vector of rationals represent the left and right tail of the turing machine < 1384844504 98131 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think maybe you could do it in 3D with "physical" bounces < 1384844505 624205 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1384844515 601180 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tails of the infinite configuration < 1384844534 297516 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, but do you have a specific idea? < 1384844563 747438 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea for a divisibility test... < 1384844598 225999 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw a quick sketch in your favorite 3d modeling program < 1384844603 450927 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1384844617 858506 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't 3d modeling. and i don't have a computer cable of it anyway. < 1384844623 819860 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cable? < 1384844630 899918 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a computer cable of 3d modeling < 1384844633 810143 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384844634 208310 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm mm mm < 1384844639 860679 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the most important part < 1384844719 249829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d modeling doesn't need a fancy computer, realistic rendering does < 1384844740 16643 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :capable? < 1384844745 387492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384844748 456762 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes adu yes < 1384844757 843028 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for your kind help with my condition < 1384844780 285461 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah there is pretty much no nice and easy way to do 3d modeling afaik (let alone nd) < 1384844780 667754 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1384844799 973231 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :say compared to opening paint and drawing a 2d image < 1384844803 631814 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there is one easy way, it's called photogrammetry < 1384844819 829167 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay photogram me something quickly < 1384844830 798924 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah oklopol just build a real one and photogrammeter it into a model! < 1384844847 840205 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :photogrammetry requires specialized tools that convert static images from multiple angles into a 3D model for you < 1384844872 447442 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any such tools < 1384844878 899197 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also oklopol i like oklopol saying oklopol your name oklopol too many times oklopol in a sentence oklopol. oklopol! < 1384844895 617569 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.microsoft.com/ultracam/en-us/umap20.aspx < 1384844900 142511 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :look i just made your name banal < 1384844920 392004 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/temporary%20shit/ddd.png < 1384844923 509303 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you explain Clue (oklopol) to me, oklopol? your description on the wiki is nonsense < 1384844924 110246 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was so much faster < 1384844937 863255 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me when you are done < 1384844965 394982 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: awwww < 1384844989 887340 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1384844994 384747 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I can't, I don't have the software < 1384845059 145766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you have to get special software and i bet it takes seconds and seconds to open when you double-click it so you will never bother to use it. < 1384845069 106715 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :paint on the other hand < 1384845071 592217 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's so nice < 1384845076 328059 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1384845089 542631 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Gimp < 1384845104 489309 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do things in Gimp that will make you weep < 1384845124 50160 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :things i need to do: paint pixels, paint straight lines < 1384845176 139435 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :other things of importance: the program takes less than 3 seconds to open < 1384845183 766618 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a busy and important guy < 1384845188 122082 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my programs need to respect that < 1384845224 75912 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really get gimp, iirc last time i tried it took me a week to find an actual brush < 1384845289 349390 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, i'm pretty sure it's possible in 3D with "physical bounces" if you're allowed infinite walls and infinite cups. i just designed one in my head. it only uses 90 degree bounces. < 1384845318 908714 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite walls? < 1384845344 868790 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cups sound dangerous < 1384845348 418199 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i left out one part of the design, but yes what i have requires there be an infinite number of walls < 1384845354 812367 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does infinite walls mean infinitely many walls? < 1384845366 539630 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or why do you need infinite size < 1384845367 165343 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :cups as in holes as in "hole in one" < 1384845372 836425 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1384845406 383879 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hunch that you are not doing the computation in the presentation of the number, but in the large scale location of the ball < 1384845413 337133 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting the ball in the hole is the halting condition right < 1384845417 372754 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384845432 921286 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you try to describe what's going on < 1384845433 82842 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course i am. i can't think in terms of the position numbers < 1384845471 943229 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the position of the ball on the x axis is your number n (in fractran) < 1384845486 542703 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just using integer positions you know < 1384845492 536822 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :alrighty < 1384845519 754660 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it bounces ziggity zag parallel to the y, then z, then y, then z axes < 1384845543 446230 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :every wall that turns it from y towards z has holes in it every kth integer < 1384845562 577741 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first wall has even/odd holes, the second open-closed-closed, etc. < 1384845587 301946 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where k is one of the denominators of one of the fractions < 1384845591 511992 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sequence < 1384845625 479503 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first fraction it comes to that divides it, it will pass through the wall and keep traveling down the y axis < 1384845625 656989 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :got some breakfast, will now read your formal proof < 1384845725 122686 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and it bounces ziggity zag parallel to the y, then z, then y, then z axes" can you clarify this < 1384845727 601049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it hits a wall that turns it to the left, towards the yz plane with a y value corresponding to the product of the fraction and the number < 1384845743 358278 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it looks like this: < 1384845748 954234 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from the side) < 1384845753 906006 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ < 1384845756 315901 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which way is y) < 1384845762 931193 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\ < 1384845765 750043 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric : \\ < 1384845768 714971 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric : \\ < 1384845781 894210 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1384845814 192793 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i'll be able to describe it in words :/ < 1384845878 290841 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway i believe it's doable if you allow that sort of stuff < 1384845905 593296 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sort of stuff with infinite boards might certainly make an interesting game < 1384845909 692472 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how you'd do it encoding the data in the digits after the decimal < 1384845959 342202 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither, i've asked 2 professors and another researcher sofar < 1384845967 365317 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can you explain clue please < 1384845968 973134 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first said it's clearly undecidable in 2d < 1384845977 222680 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we then later agreed maybe it's not known < 1384846009 294092 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second said http://mathworld.wolfram.com/IlluminationProblem.html < 1384846015 906544 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1384846065 558100 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh er clue < 1384846069 127692 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clue is awesome < 1384846078 434453 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you wanna know < 1384846109 896853 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should really make a more serious version of it, and a documentation that actually documentates something < 1384846209 522454 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand how you define a function by examples < 1384846212 6313 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1384846244 154658 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i want a function that ... squares negative numbers and square roots positive numbers < 1384846257 596576 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would i specify that and how would the compiler figure out that's what i want < 1384846309 769367 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder where clue.rar is nowadays. < 1384846339 506345 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have to know the exact recursive algorithm < 1384846354 547461 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue doesn't figure that out, it just saves you the trouble of actually writing it down < 1384846359 571042 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue < 1384846363 986285 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384846372 690277 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_(oklopol) < 1384846374 744244 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is keymaker? < 1384846404 773612 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :another finnish guy < 1384846408 462451 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes visits the channel < 1384846447 596109 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: writing mathematical functions might be tricky < 1384846473 532444 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the end condition for the recursion is complicated (some error is small enough) < 1384846485 92950 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could give the comparison operator and the epsilon value as helpers < 1384846490 268135 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might figure it out eventually < 1384846558 126108 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you have . a -> b things and you have :. c -> d : e -> f things, and you have a list of helper functions < 1384846576 502070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, the compiler figures out how, using the helper functions, you can separate things like a from things like c or e < 1384846595 950325 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, doesn't need to separate e sorry < 1384846603 606256 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a is where recursion should stop, and c is where recursion should happen < 1384846624 182507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1384846625 262322 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384846659 536872 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how easy this of course depends on what sort of helper functions you have (i think the reference function mostly had list operations and some integer operations) < 1384846675 126552 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can of course also use your own functions as helpers) < 1384846685 287482 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference function? does this still exist? < 1384846716 327339 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference function? < 1384846727 735431 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1384846741 529806 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an example i can see? < 1384846747 506460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1384846755 400102 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_(oklopol)/Quicksort < 1384846765 50479 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this compiled in less than a minute iirc < 1384846775 975931 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksort ~ {. [] -> [] } < 1384846779 231788 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :base case 1 < 1384846785 607843 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksort ~ {. [1] -> [1] . [2] -> [2] } base case 2 < 1384846799 736218 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one is enough, the other is basically just a comment.) < 1384846858 465045 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :{:. [4 2 3 1] -> [1 2 3 4] < 1384846858 622669 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : : [2 3 1] -> [1 2 3] < 1384846858 622838 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : : [] -> [] < 1384846861 914553 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says < 1384846883 82244 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get [4 2 3 1] as input, you should somehow get [2 3 1] out of it and [] out of it < 1384846900 657954 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you somehow patch up [1 2 3 4] from [4 2 3 1] and [1 2 3] and [] < 1384846950 502487 :adu!~ajr@96.241.27.228 QUIT :Quit: adu < 1384846955 674726 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it just does that same thing for all inputs < 1384846961 216437 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually it just works < 1384846981 867582 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(usually = in the three or so examples in the history of mankind that have been implemented) < 1384847025 380995 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Clue_(oklopol)/SKI_calculus this was a bit trickier because you have to go very deep into the list, and the main logic ski apply has many many branches < 1384847034 892601 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(deep into the input list) < 1384847049 415620 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that, iirc, took like 10 minutes to compile < 1384847086 403350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so did you figure out adjunctions < 1384847144 85213 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll < 1384847146 651416 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384847240 742305 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384847424 572116 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1384847598 468784 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksort helper ~ {. [1 2 3] [4 8 9] [5 6 7] -> [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] } < 1384847598 663046 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksort helper ~ car; quicksort append < 1384847626 868804 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how you need to know exactly what you want to happen and write helper functions for random subprograms < 1384847855 371139 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they mean “transmission”. http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/451779723596490868/3CCEC987D1FC8666EEE0A0BB1B0C69EA5093FF0E/ < 1384847919 122710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"throwing a SHA5 up" < 1384847971 549889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "RE: (no subject)". That's some realism there. < 1384848157 812838 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and top-posting, too < 1384849014 923418 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384849151 651589 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384850099 107562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1384850224 678772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1384850224 874714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie asked 10h 17m 2s ago: Hey, do you Norweggers have some sort of logical rules when you use "på" and when "i" when you're explaining where someone/something is? (In Finnish the two suffixes - < 1384850225 32979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssa/ssä and -lla/llä seem to be used pretty much randomly, but OTOH all Swedish examples I could think of were pretty logical; mostly "i", and then "på" for things like islands.) < 1384850311 215444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie Sorry, i vs. på in norwegian place names is like a whole extra random gender... there are heuristics, but they sure aren't reliable. < 1384850311 410477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384850410 762007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tel fizzie *gender system < 1384850410 919626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384851062 136167 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384851263 408243 :S1!8d1fe87a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.141.31.232.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384851287 509577 :S1!8d1fe87a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.141.31.232.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the language again where everything is a string? < 1384851353 832755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcl? < 1384851377 617790 :S1!8d1fe87a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.141.31.232.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find that on the eso wiki < 1384851384 104131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not esoteric :P < 1384851400 695923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :try /// then :) < 1384851428 245826 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s not esoteric? ;-) < 1384851470 382840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, thue, and a heap of variants of either. < 1384851499 89324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok i guess /// has only one variant that i can recall) < 1384851505 887330 :S1!8d1fe87a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.141.31.232.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue it was. /// is interesting though < 1384851514 447787 :S1!8d1fe87a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.141.31.232.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1384851807 798092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1384852093 428704 :S1!8d1fe87a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.141.31.232.122 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1384853919 68518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Every time I end up on an audiophile web-crawl I get this feeling maybe we should just get rid of ears in general. < 1384853925 977000 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1135) Every time I end up on an audiophile web-crawl I get this feeling maybe we should just get rid of ears in general. < 1384854883 930697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell firefly Btw, is there an algebraic structure that captures the idea of 'complemet'? I've been thinking some about that <-- complement _alone_ seems to have no other algebraic property than c(c(x)) = x, which is called an _involution_. < 1384854884 86284 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384854957 234863 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massage-loud < 1384854957 392684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1m 13s ago: Btw, is there an algebraic structure that captures the idea of 'complemet'? I've been thinking some about that <-- complement _alone_ seems to have no other < 1384854957 550189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :algebraic property than c(c(x)) = x, which is called an _involution_. < 1384854991 231562 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess I should've been more specific, but it turns out what I was thinking of is a complemented lattice, I think < 1384855024 180497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: in fact it's an example in wikipedia's involution page. < 1384855033 956904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1384856355 386053 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1384856597 629946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Good. < 1384856637 184472 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A reasonably easy-to-find and vegetarian-friendly Indian restaurant in Umeda. Mina, the proprietress, speaks excellent English. Vegetarian curry is available on request.Note that this shop no longer exist. Set meals from ¥1554, curries from ¥1050, beers from ¥525." < 1384856641 199322 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love wikis < 1384856673 382587 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1384856767 596445 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : i wonder if x86 is turing complete with only instructions «mov dword [dest], imm» and «jmp [src]» but allowing self-mod < 1384856773 394147 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifying of those operands <-- well, I'm pretty sure it's not < 1384856787 901249 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ignoring the finite-pointer-size problem < 1384856804 213908 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a finite program will contain only a finite set of numbers and there's no way to make new numbers < 1384856948 698046 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't have a handle on whether "Turing complete except for finite memory" can be formalized as something other than "finite state machine", even though it's something people talk about all the time < 1384856997 595695 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually think in terms of "would be turing complete given infinite memory" < 1384857001 355722 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you talk about your language interacting with an external tape device, then the language only needs to provide a finite state machine < 1384857062 201169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess to formalize a statement like "C is Turing complete" you would talk about a family of languages C_i where sizeof(void *) = i, and require that the languages have a uniform description (for example, a log-space TM that given i acts as an interpreter for C_i) < 1384857072 207506 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to the way circuit complexity classes work < 1384857119 753807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what the "log-space" is doing there.
< 1384857125 470446 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that "given infinite memory" doesn't have an obvious meaning in all cases, such as C where sizeof(void *) must be finite < 1384857146 897884 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: shrug, it's standard for circuit classes, it shouldn't be necessary if we are talking only about computability and not complexity < 1384857150 385990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "why not" < 1384857155 725938 :darklust_!~darklust@cpe-67-249-5-193.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384857255 491800 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people talk about C being TC with fseek(SEEK_CUR) and ignoring ftell(), but I think that would be the case even if the core of C were a finite state machine with a fixed IO pipeline < 1384857266 770804 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause the control unit of a TM is a FSM < 1384857358 294730 :Darklust!~darklust@cpe-67-249-5-193.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384857472 38774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically C is hideously overqualified to be TC "if you add infinite memory", and therefore that variation of TC-ness is uninteresting. < 1384858061 554210 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe C is a bad benchmark because it's not even almost-TC (fsvo almost that's relevant for other languages) < 1384858178 890942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds... unlikely. < 1384858344 769768 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by it's not even almost-TC? < 1384858377 432174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to imagine a language that is _more_ almost-TC without being TC. < 1384858439 389621 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think "add a tape" doesn't work because then the language only needs to be a FSM < 1384858504 908377 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to talk about extending the original language's storage primitives to accommodate unbounded storage, without changing their character < 1384858554 485878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh jackhammer < 1384858581 525239 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like jerkhammer < 1384858598 163589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1384858599 852899 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever used a jackhammer? well I haven't but I did use a hammer drill for a while < 1384858605 23553 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was p. fun < 1384858607 834653 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a few minutes anyway < 1384858691 144583 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see we had this tradition where the freshman build a fortified bunker in one of the dorms at the end of the school year < 1384858726 464990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then all of the people who were really gung ho about this being a good idea skipped town immediately after < 1384858742 548096 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it became my responsibility by default to demolish the bunker < 1384858760 892435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you haven't been the same since. < 1384858801 409806 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anyway a significant part of it, being a 10cm thick door-size slab of reïnforced concrete in a doorway < 1384858876 279426 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a ```special trick''' which was to put some of the rebar inside conduit so that if you cut into the conduit with an angle grinder, you'll just spin the rebar inside it without cutting into the rebar < 1384858890 285918 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another ```special trick''' was to put some shaving cream cans inside the concrete < 1384858968 320694 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling "10cm" finds on the first page "Is it true that the vagina is only 10 cm (3.9 inches) deep?" < 1384858984 744348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirmed: freshmen are insane < 1384858991 304103 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes "the vagina", the international reference vagina kept at the Bureau international des poids et mesures under precise climate control < 1384859038 884667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote googling "10cm" finds on the first page "Is it true that the vagina is only 10 cm (3.9 inches) deep?" ah yes "the vagina", the international reference vagina kept at the Bureau international des poids et mesures under precise climate control < 1384859043 160323 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1136) googling "10cm" finds on the first page "Is it true that the vagina is only 10 cm (3.9 inches) deep?" ah yes "the vagina", the international reference vagina kept at the Bureau international des poids et mesures under precise climate control < 1384859107 874440 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384859185 843584 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the house put significant effort into selecting the kind of freshman who think this sounds like a great idea < 1384859215 632680 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :should say "freshmen and freshwomen" although the colloquial "frosh" is nicely un-gendered < 1384859226 517789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, to be young again, and also a robot < 1384859233 83364 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :freshpeople < 1384859251 261776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell madbr or something in the style of the collatz sequence <-- collatz functions, see our wiki. you are _not_ going to escape the "encoding a program" part when you prove something actually _is_ TC, though. < 1384859251 419668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384859399 424474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that had to be futurama. < 1384861518 431469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384862910 670666 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384863062 235758 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1384863191 712708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1384863418 536621 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384863536 586565 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384864368 690755 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384865751 775637 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384866105 116496 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh JOIN :#esoteric < 1384866112 616720 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :New idea for a language. I call it BodyMindLang < 1384866116 94847 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 1 < 1384866116 260006 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384866117 831289 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> true < 1384866120 833913 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 2 < 1384866123 658741 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384866123 817263 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> true < 1384866140 140645 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 1 and not 2 < 1384866142 620996 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> true < 1384866159 207061 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good true morning! < 1384866178 442492 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1384866996 308665 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384867896 683965 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, poor yorick < 1384867934 267534 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :He shall be missed. < 1384867951 798676 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lobs a strangely misshapen, not-quite-from-this-Earth cranium over at lexande
< 1384867971 960593 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hops on his Bike
< 1384868561 747077 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384869414 387287 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode MOUNTAIN BICYCLIST < 1384869416 658199 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown character. < 1384869442 972977 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 🚵 < 1384869444 863265 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+D83D DUNNO] [U+DEB5 DUNNO] < 1384869452 982617 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn. < 1384869464 86783 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice dunno. < 1384869595 313574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very non-BMP-friendly, because of an UCS-2 Python build. < 1384869666 224796 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1384870391 473395 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: this coallier person seems pretty douchey, wtf < 1384870638 52887 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 北北 < 1384870639 925760 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+5317 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-5317] [U+F963 CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPH-F963] < 1384870676 397200 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :catchy names < 1384870695 9673 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yup < 1384870735 523378 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god, Bike you're a real person? Sorry for sitting on you mate < 1384870753 542402 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a real bike < 1384870766 32092 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a reeeeeal hero < 1384870799 298986 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1384870802 401869 :JesseH!~JesseH@unaffiliated/jesseh PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you say man < 1384870984 898560 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384871007 279182 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you say bike < 1384871016 288306 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DSVDcw6iW8 < 1384872388 192728 :constant!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1384872731 692669 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384873032 841843 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384874519 359809 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1384874968 348436 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384875275 305097 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike is a real hero? < 1384875373 185662 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-145.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384875772 341772 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384875990 405740 :monotone_!~monotone@room208.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1384876090 873744 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1384876270 146714 :Gregor`!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1384876283 947218 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: Bike is everything. Bike is the Whole Experience of the Universe. Bike has two wheels. < 1384876315 728423 :rodgort`!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384876359 350117 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1384876359 568472 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1384876359 870774 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1384876360 37487 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1384876360 214264 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1384876372 408414 :HackEgo!dlopen@64.62.173.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384876780 243806 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de NICK :int-e < 1384876927 373964 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384877813 751582 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl PART #esoteric :"Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com" < 1384877982 363869 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1384878131 238353 :Gregor`!dlopen@libdl.so NICK :Gregor < 1384878859 219222 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the registers initialized at anything in particular in x86? < 1384878884 606307 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some are like the instruction pointer and such, but what about the rest < 1384878897 162953 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the address of the stack and such < 1384879023 741082 :monotone_!~monotone@room208.org NICK :polytone < 1384879200 231778 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they at 0 on power on and initialized by the BIOS? < 1384879465 681903 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the initial value was undefined...? Just some random value? < 1384879480 835049 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of it is defined. < 1384879519 30813 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I remember they're condensators (kinda), so I would guess that either they are drained on power off or left at the old value < 1384879524 537181 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess either 0 or random < 1384879528 839510 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know which < 1384879537 572855 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (somewhat dated) copy of the AMD64 Architecture Programming Manual has a section 14.1.3 Processor Initialisation state. < 1384879543 581304 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know if it's initialized at anything by BIOS < 1384879550 742654 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :registers are static RAM so they're logic gates in a feedback configuration, not capacitors < 1384879557 796061 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :disclaimer: may be completely wrong < 1384879593 650452 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at minimum CS will be initialized in addition to IP < 1384879604 218777 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so CS is 0xF000, other segment registers are 0, RAX is 0, RDX contains some CPU ID information, other basic registers are 0 ... < 1384879618 998535 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are either 0, 1, random, undefined, unknown or blueberry flavoured. < 1384879625 230807 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RIP is 0xFFF0. < 1384879639 643194 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :even flags are defined :) < 1384879645 806213 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the CPU ID info useful for? < 1384879655 24952 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAX? < 1384879672 624447 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAX is the x86-64 64 bit version of AX/EAX. < 1384879677 141324 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1384879688 652586 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most doc I've seen stops at 32 < 1384879688 810326 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the flags register must be defined to successfully execute an instruction < 1384879694 797421 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like trap flag = 0 < 1384879706 975796 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, those processor manuals are the right place to look up such information :) < 1384879749 173180 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also what exactly does the stack definition do in the assembly? < 1384879758 214657 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1384879758 702922 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .stack 256 or whatever it may be < 1384879768 854352 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, which assembler? < 1384879769 12433 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rflags is essentially set to 0, but there's a reserved bit that is forced to be 1 :) ) < 1384879783 683955 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the general purpose is to define the size of the stack, but how does that translate in the processor? < 1384879786 52547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has anyone seen the electrical datasheet for a current Intel / AMD processor? with like a thousand entry pinout list? :) < 1384879786 211019 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 8086 < 1384879789 728357 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those public? < 1384879800 794427 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're public enough? < 1384879803 343966 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no, what assembler program < 1384879811 501193 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: well have you seen one? < 1384879818 982863 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just assume kinda < 1384879825 610690 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :u make an ass out of u and me < 1384879826 180028 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it might be hard to program anything on them < 1384879847 45429 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have seen the pinout list for a recent-ish socket, but not a full datasheet < 1384879851 16472 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The examples I see are usually in Borland C < 1384879862 109853 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no, the architecture manuals are enough to do programming < 1384879874 42929 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to know the electrical specifications of the particular chip your code is executing on < 1384879881 57417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...usually < 1384879903 936295 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. no I have not seen any detailed electrical datasheets. Then again, I've never really looked for them. < 1384879911 998984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you look up the datasheet for (say) an 8-bit AVR microcontroller, it has info both on "this instruction does that" and also "this pin needs this many volts" < 1384879950 510301 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they have to give such things to the patent office? < 1384879962 344108 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but with those guys (embedded processors) you are you are quite likely to be your own motherboard manufacturer. < 1384879965 332786 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful < 1384879987 162667 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I don't know < 1384879987 973444 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents are pretty general, you don't need to submit detailed specs of every product which invokes the patent, I don't think < 1384880000 691818 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never know with those fucks < 1384880033 309929 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: only if you patent them, and even then you don't have to describe anything at the packaging level (which pin does what). And you can split features into many patents (signaling on busses, communicating with memory, etc.) < 1384880051 389263 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: and I don't know about your .stack; googling with "borland C" doesn't find anything, and it's not something I recall from any assembler I've used < 1384880073 795077 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, MASM has a .STACK: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bffws6w0(v=vs.71).aspx < 1384880086 187795 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://prism2.mem.drexel.edu/~rares/asm4.htm < for instance < 1384880091 711582 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MODEL small < 1384880091 869148 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :STACK 266 < 1384880097 616790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr-: Yes, but I'm not sure that it helps much in this case. < 1384880101 235672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wrong channel. < 1384880106 901858 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the MODEL describes where the code and data are stored < 1384880111 898949 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably more of a linker directive, which tells the linker how much space to reserve for the stack < 1384880121 816883 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bffws6w0%28v=vs.110%29.aspx < 1384880139 192829 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess STACK initializes the stack base and allocates some memory up to 266*4 in that case? < 1384880139 908587 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably ends up in bytes 10-11 of an EXE file, http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/exe/ < 1384880147 658539 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and puts something in the .EXE saying what the initial value of SS:SP is? < 1384880148 22533 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1384880160 321687 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yep < 1384880162 478531 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously that's old DOS EXE files, not the sille PE ones we have nowadays) < 1384880164 930426 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*silly < 1384880194 706270 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that with .COM files you're not allowed to use .STACK because you're stuck in the TINY memory model anyway < 1384880205 19941 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of PE executables: http://blog.theincredibleholk.org/blog/2013/11/18/booting-to-rust/ < 1384880207 733217 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384880219 2128 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot to Rust via UEFI, with no assembly < 1384880226 51555 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I say "probably" because the 8086 segmented addressing model has so much aliasing) < 1384880289 9776 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it could still be a declaration that a linker can use to check whether everything (code, data, declared stack) fite into 65300 bytes (256 bytes go to the PCB (process control block)). < 1384880301 173943 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 65280. darn :) < 1384880315 176058 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would it also emit code to initialize SS:SP? < 1384880326 95080 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for? the OS does that for the program < 1384880329 74139 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think DOS does that for you to a fixed point, probably just the end of that 64k < 1384880332 155669 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1384880344 602542 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the header fields, or just SP=0xFFFE for a COM file. < 1384880348 857687 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I guess the checking is still potentially useful < 1384880395 395713 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I'm not sure whether .stack is allowed in the .tiny model :) It's been a while ... < 1384880421 698065 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384880421 855796 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also most documents seem pretty vague on how many registers there are < 1384880433 242763 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the basic ones described by most < 1384880438 57942 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the flag things < 1384880444 739915 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then control registers and debug??? < 1384880449 822438 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is "a fuckload" < 1384880450 85738 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And divider??? < 1384880456 480480 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, processor manuals are the source to go to (but have a history of not talking about all registers *anyway*) < 1384880458 117673 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they all accessible? < 1384880466 610913 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes read the manual < 1384880471 121325 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thx < 1384880495 296178 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the less manual-y question is "is it a good idea to access them" < 1384880516 604715 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, read the bit of the Intel manual where it talks about the VMX virtualization feature, because that describes the layout of an in-memory struct used to save/restore ~all state from a VM < 1384880530 807533 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is x86? i don't think there's like, a mov-word-to-flags-reg ability < 1384880536 259069 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :including some things that aren't directly accessible, like the segment descriptor which was loaded when a segment selector was last set < 1384880547 953044 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there's lahf / sahf < 1384880551 626617 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there is lah... < 1384880554 154102 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :too slow < 1384880560 196733 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: "good idea" depends on what you're trying to do.......................................................................... < 1384880561 32470 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, of course there is < 1384880584 462730 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: control registers are essential to the operation of a typical operating system < 1384880584 994774 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well currently mostly trying to get a feel of Assembly < 1384880594 28954 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are invisible to userspace code < 1384880594 785207 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAHF: Welcome to Stewards for Affordable Housing for the Future < 1384880595 483711 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably stick with the usual registers from now on < 1384880600 626733 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see the rest later < 1384880607 28205 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they set things like, where in physical memory does the page table live < 1384880628 276387 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :debug registers are useful for debugging, e.g. breakpoint when a particular memory address is accessed < 1384880640 984117 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: obviously the mnemonics are for "load ah register from flags" and "store ah registers into flags" < 1384880650 36352 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i looked it up < 1384880657 841203 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrelatedly, it's hard to take toilet day seriously, i blame sgeo < 1384880658 994674 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they too can only be directly manipulated by ring-0 (i.e. kernel-mode) code < 1384880661 229052 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly is kind of weird < 1384880670 540801 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typical OS will provide some interface like ptrace() for using those debug registers < 1384880672 773499 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's weird about it < 1384880673 752203 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're just mnemonics for opcodes, why are most of them so cryptic < 1384880684 544043 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess back then it was to save space, but nowadays? < 1384880760 110054 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying PCLMULQDQ isn't immediately obvious < 1384880782 678109 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that one is obvious, but who would guess that mov is move < 1384880922 435240 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that jmp is branch ;-) < 1384880923 928728 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: the regs you're likely to see in user code are: R[ABCD]X RSI RDI RSP RBP and their sub-components; RIP (in RIP-relative memory addressing), flags (implicitly for the most part), x87 FPU registers ST0 through ST7, MMX registers MM0 through MM7, SSE registers XMM0 through XMM15 < 1384880941 610319 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and segment selectors, mostly only FS and GS these days < 1384880949 400754 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though honestly, making 'b' the mnemonic for 'branch' isn't all that sane either.) < 1384880969 66363 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and R8 to R15 < 1384880970 804972 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc : All the R's I saw in most documents, the rest I have no idea! < 1384880983 57499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh yeah duh < 1384881011 721905 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well I guess I'll stick with simple things for now < 1384881015 392789 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "print a letter" < 1384881020 179533 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1384881037 741388 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I saw that it's not too complicated to access the PC speaker, which is neat < 1384881056 574924 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hands Slereah_ some black ink and lead,
< 1384881057 47975 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 16-bit code you're more likely to use the segment overrides < 1384881069 129960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway yeah you should probably keep learning rather than listening to me recite lists :) < 1384881070 576966 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e : Real men use a brush < 1384881095 47227 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fs: is used for thread-local storage :) < 1384881129 113419 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly code in calligraphy < 1384881241 618649 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got "flat assembler" for assemblin', I'd better see the syntax there < 1384881291 238880 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is nasm still maintained? < 1384881297 276232 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a clue! < 1384881306 697870 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really I thought Assembler would be much worse than it is < 1384881309 956107 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"real men" jokes are distasteful because tying this or that skill to masculinity is problematic < 1384881323 535443 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has constants, procedures and control structures :o < 1384881343 912178 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes it is :-) ) < 1384881372 873454 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically C with a slightly more distasteful handling of variables < 1384881392 640371 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people make a big deal about x86 being so complicated but it's not that hard when you're writing it yourself, as opposed to understanding what a compiler has spit out < 1384881405 695762 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :much of the complexity works in the favor of the assembly author < 1384881425 103794 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess reading binary might be tough, yeah < 1384881434 249574 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you disassemble it < 1384881441 486746 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you lose a lot of context < 1384881444 370572 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are the jump instructions translated, by the way? < 1384881447 353969 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like < 1384881451 159074 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.jump point < 1384881453 802491 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do shit < 1384881454 318749 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: typically an offset in bytes < 1384881457 404578 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JMP whatever < 1384881467 539143 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384881472 654046 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the main things an assembler provides is resolving those labels into byte offsets < 1384881474 360694 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the jump point translated as the address of that point? < 1384881476 325502 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assembler documentation like http://www.nasm.us/pub/nasm/releasebuilds/2.11rc1/doc/nasmdoc.pdf can also be a viable source for learning about processor features.) < 1384881476 483180 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or absolute addresses depending < 1384881477 854760 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384881510 266652 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and one of the main things a linker provides is, deferring that process) < 1384881537 966172 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such that you can compile/assemble many files independently into something that's like machine code but still has jump targets in a symbolic form, and then link them all together quickly) < 1384881548 906810 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time i tried reading 6502 asm that had this convention where you could put * next to a line, and then "jmp ++" would mean "jump to the second line ahead with a *", etc. that was quite confusing < 1384881559 151333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1384881587 751234 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU as has something like that; you can write numeric labels 1: or 2: and then jmp to them as 1f (meaning "next 1:") or 1b (meaning "previous 1:") < 1384881598 630634 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful for inline assembly < 1384881616 353247 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. A puzzle for Slereah: figure out the difference between jmp short foo and jmp near foo. (Not quite serious.) < 1384881631 314235 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like for a loop you'd have "* ...loop body... jump-if-test -;" < 1384881643 575380 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: I find an absolutely vital tool for understanding assembly is to run a disassembler on the output < 1384881669 46018 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you see what instructions were really encoded, with machine code and mnemonics side by side < 1384881681 724545 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1384881893 426936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog < 1384881895 916672 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give it a shot, thanks < 1384881932 534820 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume all the header shit is either preprocessor shit or initialization? < 1384881957 195991 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :header in the assembly source or in the binary? < 1384881963 124054 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly source < 1384881972 680263 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like replacing the constants and initilizing the segment registers and such < 1384882163 864721 :Oj742!irc2gowebc@131.252.207.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384882326 579864 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384882343 795825 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384882564 139185 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone ever made some hardware cellular automaton < 1384882568 947299 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not too hard to do < 1384882861 618346 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384882874 787579 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384882889 758205 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask google < 1384882917 709299 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1384882964 190380 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.univ-orleans.fr/lifo/Members/Jerome.Durand-Lose/Recherche/Publications/1996_RT-LIP_1996-01.pdf < 1384882967 117498 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it seems < 1384883469 817222 :Oj742!irc2gowebc@131.252.207.127 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384883760 716242 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@vpn32-081.rz.hs-offenburg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1384884079 848030 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what'd be hard at doing cellular automatons in Hardware < 1384884133 449828 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking 'lay out a circuit' hardware or 'with a processor but no particular OS' hardware < 1384884138 729102 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way it seems simple enough < 1384884165 713090 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :'lay out a circuit' I assume < 1384884207 720403 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384884231 355847 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should really figure out the VGA driver on my FPGA so i could try that>_> < 1384884251 526945 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it efficiently is probably hard < 1384884264 750713 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doing it at all... < 1384884269 242453 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :vhdl to the rescue :) < 1384884300 47575 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it that hard? you'd just need a little register, and inputs from the clock and the neighborhood, for each cell < 1384884317 465611 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, something like hashlife would be hard, of course < 1384884360 782918 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the automaton < 1384884367 905055 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1384884378 70468 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use some sram < 1384884384 539483 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1384884395 245780 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :store some 2D stuff in there < 1384884399 997182 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and boing.. you're done < 1384884451 310259 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how much storage you need < 1384884466 995300 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what kind of automata do you like, Slereah_ < 1384884477 762693 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be even easier with a 1D automaton < 1384884484 616605 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wolframs thingy < 1384884501 470522 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would just fit neatly into a single bitstream < 1384884539 436160 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did wolfram automata on a shitty calculator once. surely hardware can't be harder < 1384884632 132016 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384884734 276169 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can program it you can also program it in vhdl < 1384884738 652738 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you can program it in vhdl < 1384884742 227305 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardware-ish < 1384884808 825046 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to university has made me realise that while I'm not the best programmer, this channel has set me up with a brilliant background knowledge of the theoretical side of CS < 1384884810 435693 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1384884844 151186 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, so you can help us analyze the time complexity of this thing < 1384884845 966707 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can only imagine how I feel here ;) < 1384884847 762960 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nb nah) < 1384884866 63783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i've analyzed it and the time complexity is "very" hth < 1384884874 864865 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume I'm the dumbest person in this channel. < 1384885011 468411 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, module pt (input clk, input [7:0] neighborhood, output [...] out); reg [...] state; assign out = state; always @(posedge clk) state <= ...some function of state and neighborhood...; endmodule < 1384885015 417298 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think that's about it. < 1384885035 869964 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make a couple thousand of those and it's all good < 1384885105 573518 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-30-45.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384885197 924689 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno vhdl ;( < 1384885214 155103 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty easy < 1384885222 445484 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everywhere where you'd expect not to put a semicolon < 1384885227 777647 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put a fucking semicolon there < 1384885231 925873 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensible < 1384885236 925797 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere where you'd put a comma < 1384885242 26005 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :try putting a semicolon first < 1384885270 918273 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an accurate description :) < 1384885283 970883 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is a context that uses commas, though < 1384885290 272469 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1384885292 880030 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port Maps use commas < 1384885294 728512 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them are frickin verbose < 1384885302 378306 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :other list-like stuff uses semicolon as a seperator < 1384885328 83116 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's illegal to put a semicolon at the end of such a list < 1384885341 186778 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one exception to the previously stated rules < 1384885356 484987 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1384885363 516333 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's one place where you have to write < 1384885368 946019 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENERIC () MAP () < 1384885385 635085 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a place where you have to write GENERIC (); MAP (); < 1384885409 115406 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense though < 1384885422 963035 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehowe < 1384885468 651356 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i should just get zzo to give me money for an open source neuromorphic fpga, and then i can make my own synthesizer for my own language, w/ blackjack & hookers < 1384885626 531341 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ain't a party with just one hooker . < 1384885682 433368 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly blackjack, practically speaking < 1384885691 128709 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384885783 497280 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to see a vhdl synthesizer that can produce plans for mechanical hardware < 1384885792 480927 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ... like ... < 1384885813 20576 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :piñón < 1384885817 142217 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mechanical? < 1384885828 248106 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gear wheels < 1384885833 802244 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yeah < 1384885850 237896 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :piñón is apparently pine nuts? < 1384885862 624518 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1384885862 986004 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have an esolang idea that's basically that (or rather the vhdl equivalent) < 1384885872 122032 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :since like, digital operations are hard. < 1384885888 130393 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384885912 213399 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mechanical Computers don't need energy when they're not doing stuff . < 1384885927 985687 :Slereah_!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So lazy < 1384885938 216959 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to use a crank < 1384885943 88004 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crank < 1384885956 56373 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparentely the word for that is crank < 1384885980 453684 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really* < 1384885983 27027 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, real mechanical computers usually used motor drives, since you need it to have an exact speed < 1384885988 982514 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cranks were just used for input < 1384885999 787782 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with like < 1384886001 883382 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :steam powered? < 1384886005 985276 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome < 1384886014 977761 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to have a steam powered super computer < 1384886018 741911 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll show china < 1384886025 128366 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :steam?? this is the 1940s < 1384886030 535718 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whoever is currently leading in this cyber d*** contest < 1384886032 477461 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you could use steam if you wanted, i guess < 1384886045 978420 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just anything that can get you a steadily turning gear. < 1384886049 812341 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need that for integrators. < 1384886049 969994 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know when steam got old < 1384886092 271499 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you mean by steam, i guess... the obvious nuclear reactor design which i think is still used is basically steam < 1384886114 489496 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1384886146 255461 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regular steam engines < 1384886166 797383 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't really know what real mechanical computers used, i'm pretty sure that by wwii they were basically on diesel < 1384886234 790980 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :power source isn't terribly important though, the trick is making the components have enough accuracy < 1384886248 75984 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme tell you, CVTs are some weird-ass shit to make < 1384887171 798758 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384887410 676096 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balanced ternary electronic computers are so much simpler < 1384887778 420311 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Controversy at the university of York as HackSoc, the university's computer science society, declares an upcoming game-making society to be stepping on their toes < 1384887823 259537 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that sort of thing never happens at Birmingham, it's considered an advantage to be able to get away with having two basically identical societies < 1384887858 364971 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog, doesn't Birmingham have like 5 universities < 1384887881 631880 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but only one is the University of Birmingham < 1384887887 382758 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the others all have different names < 1384887892 322004 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, York has two and a half universities < 1384887907 122591 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also two of them only became classified as universities recently < 1384887935 857203 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(University of York, York St John University, and Hull York Medical School) < 1384887952 233084 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and strictly speaking the last one is half part of the first one) < 1384887966 231593 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the "and a half" < 1384888029 246288 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also half part of the University of Hull < 1384888095 743785 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the University of York has one of the highest duck to student ratios of any university in the world! < 1384888322 196046 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://doctorbeet.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/lg-smart-tvs-logging-usb-filenames-and.html < 1384888731 102037 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384889200 280577 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384889407 125632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1384890616 765446 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1384890626 629650 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :labeling long horizontal lines "Horizontal long lines" is genius < 1384890638 340332 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@figure 4 of that high speed harware automaton paper < 1384890638 497995 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1384890650 428150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hairyware < 1384890657 340465 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 vertical long lines < 1384890658 722927 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1384891208 610513 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384891236 49574 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384891266 346315 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384891302 149609 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the zuse z1 had an electric motor < 1384891428 305527 :augur_!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384891547 380743 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384891663 123783 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What paper? < 1384892176 703578 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1384892525 794534 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1384892754 500311 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384892865 738485 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1384892875 570546 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1384892983 711331 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384893262 277111 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1384893262 763554 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Humbling" to "Swallowing" < 1384893473 375673 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1384893627 339153 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384893798 855026 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384894151 554599 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@199.185.88.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1384894687 755906 :augur_!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384894723 374041 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384894744 55694 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384894754 893959 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@vpn32-081.rz.hs-offenburg.de QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1384894763 701342 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384894829 115853 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1384894889 795952 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384896109 411750 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1384896109 733215 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Stripping" to "Swallowing" < 1384896117 187355 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :swallowing < 1384896119 17368 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for food. < 1384896163 693153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you're way better than metasepia < 1384896164 27464 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 1.8.5 would allocate 128 bytes per loop.) < 1384896173 777192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: and way better than lambdabot < 1384896174 92927 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and it still seems like an odd goal, which is deterministic, it just requires making your eval support a fnord flag for fnord would just muck up the puzzle < 1384896181 785555 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: especially with the new management!! < 1384896182 115635 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: abum hehe i've done that kind of sh1t hasn't happened in linux for graphics pretty much all sedative drugs, very similar to the list < 1384896233 402865 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-30-45.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384896258 880773 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: :-( < 1384896275 59597 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is fungot better than ruddy? < 1384896275 262138 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: yes... i see someone who is in almost as many channels as you're in, you can do < 1384896275 505264 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clap clap! < 1384896282 706438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is better than ruddy < 1384896282 863930 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm. so you're golden. < 1384896283 527912 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... i see someone who is in almost as many channels as you're in, you can do < 1384896314 839290 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can't argue with golden < 1384896488 155485 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1384896521 596324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1384896543 74097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how come i'm not in the lambdabot admins list < 1384896644 888575 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took elliott's list of admins. < 1384896664 477823 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: don't diss my lovely bot. < 1384896673 602211 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384896690 681751 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384896721 358373 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-145.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384896729 205928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is lovely too < 1384896729 390869 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if i'm going north or south" i am part of the ' offcuts' of several famous single malts. < 1384896735 709718 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384896746 322391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: exactly < 1384896746 628513 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ( cadr fnord) doesn't properly clear the screen correctly: just scheme code in a module are statically decidable. regexes, otoh... would be very helpful < 1384896756 869995 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384896839 195701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be slightly surprised if (cadr fnord) did clear the screen. < 1384896840 376764 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and I don't think we're short on lambdabot admins, are we? < 1384896870 616503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You'd be surprised. < 1384896944 324885 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I would < 1384896991 52906 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384897941 721861 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-145.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384898559 441303 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: SUPERLATIVE CHICKEN! < 1384898561 648487 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384898637 714539 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384898727 858169 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384898791 396055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's weird. Told mplayer to play a .mp3 file, and it's showing a 88x31 "video" of the CC-BY-NC-SA license logo banner icon thing. < 1384898830 186939 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are the file contents actually MP3 format? < 1384898854 395460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to 'file', sure. < 1384898862 296370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Audio file with ID3 version 2.3.0, contains: MPEG ADTS, layer III, v1, 128 kbps, 44.1 kHz, JntStereo" < 1384898883 831841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's some curious ID3 image thing, but I've never seen that happen before. < 1384898890 383104 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting indeed! < 1384898898 928708 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it keeps complaining, though it plays just fine. < 1384898921 211406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KEIN and so on. < 1384898932 39959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just one but three "video" streams. < 1384898961 868140 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be some kind of a mplayer2 thing, I don't recall the old one ever "playing" ID3 tag images. < 1384899227 716659 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384900606 69780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imo add chu spaces to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_space#Specializations_and_generalizations < 1384900632 586759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo do it yourself < 1384900667 840430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo i don't remember my wikipedia password < 1384900681 52670 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=599852 < 1384900697 166775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo ask them to send it to your email < 1384900825 506868 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: sweet. < 1384900925 695169 :darklust_!~darklust@cpe-67-249-5-193.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384901000 637712 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/11/19/scientists-confirm-existence-of-moon/ "Scientists Confirm Existence of Moon" < 1384901632 982551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Insert pun here < 1384901864 404324 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384901871 697863 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384901897 684279 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384901987 311935 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384902149 681570 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-135-55.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1384902442 359089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1384902657 100655 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384902944 866577 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot how sad Interstella 5555 was < 1384902973 940884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a good thing if it was sad < 1384902990 868748 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i value sadness more than happiness. < 1384902994 876774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict it's about the space smurfs? < 1384903007 832438 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. one of em dies < 1384903017 221791 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an anime opera by Daft Punk about space smurfs < 1384903025 999230 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it i have one more time stuck in my head now < 1384903068 310948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :killing off a character isn't that sad < 1384903094 694144 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: have you seen Grave of the Fireflies? < 1384903099 332801 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse, I have not < 1384903104 824433 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that an opera by Daft Punk < 1384903109 67970 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1384903155 427941 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my understanding that if interstella 5555 is sad grave of the fireflies will convince you to hang yourself halfway through the film < 1384903155 586155 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, it's a film by Isao Takahata < 1384903162 331160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have, it's at least 100% more sad < 1384903180 105074 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that sounds about right. you might be understating it < 1384903187 517389 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i've never seen it. < 1384903217 674924 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't really intend to either, god knows i've seen enough sad world wars in snow < 1384903251 699489 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen enough sad things this century < 1384903305 420637 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GofF is pretty high on my "my face is leaking please help" list < 1384903310 826530 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GotF < 1384903334 253121 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually make that at least 500% more sad < 1384903345 899292 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1384903373 762918 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we can call GotF "sad" because otherwise by comparison nothing else is sad ever < 1384903399 220835 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, gotf makes me think of another japanese film i haven't seen that's probbly near the same level < 1384903408 803104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tell < 1384903410 983996 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, it's nine hours of a socialist getting eaten alive by the IJA < 1384903426 2874 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Human_Condition_(film_series) < 1384903429 105119 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, uh, not really the same < 1384903470 821801 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he's not being literally eaten alive < 1384903479 947330 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1384903537 306347 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside of the subject of war, the only other film content that's made me that sad was season 2 (or 3?) of the Dr. Who reboot. But that was some time ago. < 1384904053 144646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :doctor who lost the ability to evoke any emotion in me other than cringe long ago < 1384904198 842141 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.168 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384904295 724776 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's campy and cheesy < 1384904299 429142 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like that < 1384904353 638777 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, I haven't seen anything past Tennant.. so I'm not sure if that still holds. < 1384905012 566143 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1384905075 139808 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384905097 602916 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse, it does not < 1384905174 711931 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric