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02:43:00 <ais523\unfoog> because it always knows whether the LHS is a struct or a pointer to struct
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02:48:24 <Sgeo> Feels a bit implicit-castish
02:48:33 <Sgeo> Although not sure if it's really a problem
02:48:41 <Sgeo> When would you want to actually . on the pointer?
02:50:54 <ais523\unfoog> Sgeo: you can't . on a pointer in C, which is why it works
02:56:47 <ais523\unfoog> over the last few days I've been working on NetHack 4
02:56:58 <ais523\unfoog> and more generally, I've been working on my PhD thesis
02:57:17 <quintopia> damn you're still survivng academia. wow.
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03:01:51 <quintopia> sounds lame. you're like pretty close to myy age right?
03:05:44 <JesseH> I tried to erase the content from my Derplang page, but it came back one day...
03:05:50 <JesseH> Not sure what to do about this.
03:06:02 <JesseH> Because im getting ready to do derplang 2, and its a big change up.
03:09:06 <ais523\unfoog> JesseH: you can't delete a page by blanking it, that just leaves a blank page which confuses people
03:09:22 <JesseH> because the old derplang is still fun to use
03:09:23 <ais523\unfoog> I can delete pages given a good reason, but there isn't an obvious good reason to delete that one
03:09:48 <JesseH> But derplang 2 wouldnt belong on the esoteric site, because its less esoteric this time...a lot less
03:09:56 <JesseH> Improved syntactic sugar ^_^
03:10:18 <JesseH> I would have changed the name but i am horrible with names.
03:10:59 <quintopia> why would you make a language that is actually useful and convenient
03:11:11 <JesseH> because I haven't done that yet
03:11:39 <JesseH> The joy comes in writing it
03:11:54 <JesseH> I doubt people other than myself would use it...
03:12:27 <JesseH> Python didnt start off at version 2.7
03:12:30 <quintopia> but implementing a real full on language
03:12:43 <JesseH> Sure its painful, but its fun too
03:13:01 <JesseH> Like paintball, airsoft, or angry sex
03:13:27 <quintopia> that's a very esolangal motivation
03:13:46 <quintopia> i don't think it's the fun kind of pain
03:14:54 <quintopia> the guy who figured out how to write actual functional algorithms in malbolge got to see the fun kind of pain
03:15:05 <Sgeo> https://github.com/marcelog/jsonex/blob/2.0/lib/jsonex.ex
03:15:20 <JesseH> trying to implement languages has been more fun than using esolangs :P
03:15:26 <JesseH> But maybe I havent found the right language to use
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03:18:12 <quintopia> JesseH: try implementing an esolang in another esolang!
03:34:58 <JesseH> quintopia, thats a terrible idea ....
03:36:37 <JesseH> Someone help me find an esoteric language that could be used for general purpose stuff if one was dedicated enough
03:36:51 <Sgeo> I'm having some trouble torturing norns
03:40:47 <Sgeo> Bike: what was it that made you horrified? My putting norn brains into the body of a toy, or my experimenting with how much ATP decoupler a norn could tolerate?
03:40:54 <Sgeo> Or something else I forget
03:41:32 <Bike> i don't remember
03:41:40 <Bike> i also don't remember if i was actually horrified or just being silly
03:41:57 <JesseH> Your name fascinates me
03:42:09 <Bike> it's not really an uncommon word
03:42:16 <Sgeo> JesseH: fungot is written in Befunge
03:42:16 <fungot> Sgeo: what is lambda?) on windows, have a bunch of empty cd-rs. err...
03:42:57 <Sgeo> Befunge-98 allows for plugins to the language, I think
03:44:31 <lifthrasiir> you cannot use more than 26 commands at any given time (there are some ways to work around but limited)
03:45:52 <JesseH> What are your favorite esolangs?
03:47:30 <ais523\unfoog> Underload; BF Joust; various functional-ish ones that haven't been fully worked out yet
03:47:51 <ais523\unfoog> I'm kind-of an esolang narcsissist, I tend to prefer esolangs I created myself
03:48:03 <ais523\unfoog> but that's mostly because I aim to create the sort of esolangs I like
03:48:50 <JesseH> link me to your esolangs so i can see if im interested
03:49:07 <JesseH> I would google but i need to go scavenge for good
03:51:40 <ais523\unfoog> JesseH: there's a list on http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:ais523
03:53:10 <ais523\unfoog> not as many as cpressey did (he also has a good eye for interesting esolangs)
03:54:03 <JesseH> Oooo minimax looks nice
03:54:44 <JesseH> backflip looks painfil
03:56:05 <JesseH> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Black
04:02:08 <Sgeo> I should try to get a grasp of the Erlang OTP
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04:20:08 <ion> I recommend it.
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04:23:06 <quintopia> i have just come upon the greatest bug ever in my life
04:26:30 <quintopia> i'm writing a program to draw a circle in SELECT.
04:26:45 <quintopia> it works great for 20 evenly spaced points on a circle
04:28:26 <quintopia> it transposes the bottom and top thirds (breaking it at the points corresponding to the angles tau/8, 3tau/8, 5tau/8) just enough to make a funny tesselatable bowtie. and instead of halting after drawing it, it goes and draws it again in the opposite direction, apparently forever
04:29:03 <quintopia> no idea why the imaginary part keeps getting translated like that
04:31:12 <quintopia> ah. well let's see. i'll run it again. (it should be perfectly reproducible...everything involved is determinstic)
04:33:08 <Sgeo> Well, that makes me scared to try BEAM languages...
04:33:11 <quintopia> i suspect it's some mpmath weirdness
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04:39:43 <doesthiswork> what's the smallest number of points it appears in
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04:41:32 <Sgeo> Bike: the Erlang VM thingy
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04:58:08 <JesseH> My favorite esoteric language....Perl
04:58:43 <Bike> JesseH: that's basically the first joke about esolangs. we all made it at one point
04:58:53 <ais523\unfoog> frequently people make an unfunny "joke" where they just mash some keys on their keyboard and claim it's valid Perl
04:58:59 <ais523\unfoog> and I decode it, stopping at the first syntax error
04:59:10 <Bike> ais, meanwhile, is just an astonishing person
04:59:18 <JesseH> Bike, which is why i had to make it...its my initiation.
04:59:54 <ais523\unfoog> I didn't make that joke about Perl, as far as I know
05:00:16 <Bike> does egobot have a pstlog too?
05:00:19 <JesseH> Wait there are more esolang jokes?
05:00:29 <Bike> JesseH: don't worry, they're all terrible
05:00:56 <oklopol> ais523\unfoog: iajsdfijasdfijsdklfjasfjiowejfoiwejfiowejiofjweiofjwefjkjdlfjwf
05:00:59 <Bike> in fact i think i made a joke about how bad jokes are once.
05:01:06 <Bike> `quote Bike.*joke
05:01:08 <HackEgo> 871) <Bike> i don't even know anything about feather and i'm getting sick of the time travel jokes \ 1034) <oerjan> i vaguely thought sigbovik was all jokes? <Bike> oerjan: jokes written by CS people, so none of it's funny, just sad
05:01:10 <oklopol> there's a valid perl expression for you
05:01:26 <ais523\unfoog> although not particularly interesting, it just returns a string literal
05:01:43 <doesthiswork> well there is a paper showing that the number of errors some cs students made were not significantly different with perl and a language with random symbols (there was a significant difference between the random one and a control language)
05:02:00 <HackEgo> 2010-03-01.txt:01:53:52: <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh
05:02:02 <ais523\unfoog> doesthiswork: that was busted, they were given some really old Perl 4 with bad style
05:02:17 <ais523\unfoog> haha, EgoBot has the "perl is an esolang" joke too?
05:02:29 <ais523\unfoog> !perl print iajsdfijasdfijsdklfjasfjiowejfoiwejfiowejiofjweiofjwefjkjdlfjwf
05:02:31 <Bike> `pastelogs esoteric.*Perl
05:02:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16918
05:02:58 <Bike> it's cool how i'm going to get like ten results of people doing this same log search
05:03:17 <doesthiswork> ais523 I thought the complaint was not "modern" style, meaning it has been accepted style at one point
05:03:26 <JesseH> What do you call a tailor who talks too much?
05:03:26 <Bike> «#esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org» aw yeah, right there in the topic.
05:03:35 <Bike> ais523\unfoog: oh, i didn't know that... i wanted the paste though.
05:03:41 <ais523\unfoog> doesthiswork: yeah, but in an old version of Perl wher the modern style didn't exist
05:04:05 <JesseH> They say that perl always existed.
05:04:15 <JesseH> You can see signs of this in cave paintings
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05:04:44 <doesthiswork> and the perl students did make few errors, it just wasn't enough fewer to be significant
05:05:05 <Bike> hypothesis: computer scientists are even worse at stats than psychologists
05:05:32 <ais523\unfoog> apparently, past-me was very enamoured of trying to create an eso derivative of Perl
05:06:12 <Bike> «2009-01-03.txt:22:14:38: -!- klslvoeoe changed the topic of #esoteric to: you can subtract your mom from my dick because she's old and you're a stupid fuckface! now LEARN C or say perl! stop being esoteric asswads» fascinating
05:06:26 <Bike> was this like, an actual troll
05:06:58 <doesthiswork> bike: all the stats I've seen have generally been fine
05:06:59 <ais523\unfoog> our usual response to obvious trolls is countertrolling
05:07:16 <ais523\unfoog> I know once I kicked one like ten times in a row, no ban, out of morbid curiosity as to when they'd give up and stop bothering
05:07:43 <Bike> wow, this joke language perl thing was in the topic for years
05:08:40 <ais523\unfoog> when I first joined, it'd be very rare for the "devlopment and deployment" bit to not be in the topic
05:08:58 <Bike> «% w3m -dump http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | awk '{print $6}' | tail -n +22 | perl -ne 's/K/* 1024/; print int(eval($_) + .5), "\n"' | squish 140 | sparkline» elliott what the hell
05:09:22 <quintopia> doesthiswork: it reproduces at all resolutions. but it halts successfully on the small ones.
05:11:09 <Bike> hm, this leads to another question i've been wondering about.
05:11:10 <quintopia> okay it seems to be a function of canvas size. it happens all the time at 101x101, but never for 51x51
05:12:18 <Bike> `pastelog [Mm]ath[- _]?[Nn]erd
05:12:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22864
05:13:01 <Bike> oh, it's all one person, huh.
05:13:05 <Bike> `pastelog [Mm]ath[- _]?[Nn]erd[^3]
05:13:21 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32067
05:13:36 <Bike> why does that look like a GY!BE song title to me...
05:15:49 <quintopia> okay so...i think i've tracked it down. cool. raising numbers to big powers results in weirdness.
05:16:13 <Bike> you're raising numbers to big powers for circle drawing?
05:23:30 <quintopia> you raise numbers to big powers for everythin in SELECT.
05:23:52 <Bike> you'd think it would have better support then...
05:23:54 <quintopia> i just set the default tape value to very very close to 1 and it solved the problem.
05:25:35 <quintopia> Bike: well, it would have better support if someone besides me had written the interpreter i guess. i'm counting on mpmath to handle the math, but apparently some of the calculations i need require such immense precision i would have to develop my own algorithms to handle the math if i wanted it to be able to work for any base value.
05:27:28 <Bike> probably you should switch to a repeated exponent representation
05:28:18 <Bike> kind of still not sure where huge exponents come up though... you just need to divide 2pi doncha
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05:34:43 <quintopia> perhaps you should go read the spec
05:35:42 <quintopia> what is this repeated exponent representation
05:37:36 <Bike> well, i saw it said double precision floats, but that's boring
05:39:45 <Bike> as for representation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetric_level-index_arithmetic
05:41:13 <quintopia> i'm not using double-precision. i'm using "select your own precision". i've been running my test code at p=100 decimal digits
05:41:31 <CADD> ais523\unfoog: although that joke is a bad joke, there are other real criticizms of perl (not a perl expert), such as the fact that all lists are automatically flattened.
05:44:20 <Bike> but i mean, all you need to do for a circle is exp(0*2pi/20), exp(1*2pi/20), etc, right
05:44:25 <ais523\unfoog> CADD: the correct criticism there should be "lists and references to lists are distinct firstish-class values"
05:45:02 <CADD> ais523\unfoog: lol, fair enough. i dont know enough about perl to give a proper criticism
05:45:08 <ais523\unfoog> Perl is saner if you only ever create lists as a result of dereferencing a reference to a list (you might want to make an exception for function arguments, but in a sanely designed Perl you wouldn't need one)
05:45:40 <ais523\unfoog> recent Perls have been moving towards allowing you to write programs in that style, but it's still experimental
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05:46:00 <ais523\unfoog> anyway, the issue is not that lists flatten, because a Perl list is not what most languages call a list, and it's sensible that it flattens
05:46:38 <CADD> ais523\unfoog: lists you mean?
05:47:10 <CADD> ais523\unfoog: im not sure what you mean by that
05:47:26 <Sgeo> "In fact, if you can avoid the whole procedure (which will be called relup from now on) and do simple rolling upgrades by restarting VMs and booting new applications, I would recommend you do so. Relups should be one of these 'do or die' tools. Something you use when you have few more choices."
05:47:47 <Sgeo> But I want to use Erlang [VM] hotswapping for development, so I don't have to restart the development instance when I make a code change
05:48:07 <quintopia> Bike: that's exactly what i'm doing. but then i have to scale it to the canvas size. and multiplication in SELECT. uses the rule x*y=logK((k^x)^y). so for a radius 50, i have to raise k^50 to one of those numbers you wrote above. it gets even worse if you have to add.
05:48:34 <ais523\unfoog> both are useful, and widely used; neither would be useful nor widely used if Perl didn't insist on trying to use non-reference lists for so much
05:48:52 <Bike> quintopia: sounds like representing exponentiations explicitly would help a lot, then...
05:50:35 <CADD> ais523\unfoog: well, no language is perfect. an i guess here we revel in that fact.. :)
05:51:58 <quintopia> Bike: yes. SLI looks nice. too bad there are no python libraries that have it implemented for complex numbers and such.
05:53:28 <Bike> quintopia: i think you could do it yourself? i mean, just basically have a nuber class that's a fractional float plus an integer. probably.
05:53:47 <Bike> but SELECT, that lets you use different bases, doesn't it
05:53:54 <quintopia> i could try. and lose even more of my life to coding
05:54:22 <Bike> i feel i should point out you're drawing a circle in a brainfuck derivative based on exponentation
05:55:06 <quintopia> i can move on to other more pressing things in my life
05:55:17 <quintopia> maybe i'll come back and write mandelbrot sometime
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06:29:48 <shachaf> zomg chu spaces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebras_canonically_defined#Truth_tables
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07:49:29 <fizzie> http://data.aalto.fi/ <- so modern! (I didn't know we had a thing like that.)
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08:26:05 <ion> Vihart: How I Feel About Logarithms http://youtu.be/N-7tcTIrers
08:32:51 <fizzie> Hey, algorithm is an anagram of logarithm.
08:35:53 <fizzie> > and $ zipWith (==) (sort "algorithm") (sort "logarithm") -- just checking
08:36:19 <ion> > sort "algorithm" == sort "logarithm" -- a.k.a.
08:39:17 <Deewiant> > on (==) sort "algorithm" "logarithm" -- DRY
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10:36:51 <oerjan> wow, that command actually works
10:37:25 <oerjan> !slashes Does this work now?
10:48:04 <oerjan> <Bike> as for representation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetric_level-index_arithmetic <-- neat
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12:12:20 <S1> What happened to the EsoAPI? All I was able to find was the link from the EsoAPI article on esolang
12:12:41 <S1> which was http://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoAPI and http://kidsquid.99k.org/programs/esoapi/esoapi.html
12:22:11 <fizzie> Possibly the same thing that happens to all such things, like PESOIX and PSOX. (A quiet death, that is.)
12:22:52 <S1> Doesn't someone still have the files?
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13:15:45 <boily> good esoteric morning!
13:17:16 <boily> ça va bien. on voit que l'hiver arrive à grand pas. pas trop froid de ton bord?
13:22:17 <boily> si je ne m'abuse, tu es Suisse?
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13:24:44 <mroman_> je suppose que il'ya du neige en canada?
13:25:29 <boily> il neige déjà à Québec, mais pas encore à Montréal.
13:26:57 <mroman_> il'ya du neige sur les montagnes
13:27:10 <boily> je suis pas surpris :p
13:28:09 <boily> je suis nul en ski, et encore pire en planche à neige.
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13:52:46 <JesseH> Cambridge sounds fun...
13:55:43 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover, perhaps.
13:56:18 <fizzie> Or maybe he just mentioned the place as a hypothetical, I didn't really keep track.
13:57:38 <fizzie> Some grepping seems to suggest he went to some other place. Oh well.
13:59:41 <boily> Cambridge is a confusing name. I never know which side of the Great Puddle it is.
14:00:13 <fizzie> Both, just like every other place. :p
14:03:04 <boily> London and Paris are easy, they're both in Ontario!
14:04:15 <fizzie> At least there seems to be no university in Cambridge, MA, unlike the case with, say, the University of Birmingham and Birmingham City University in UK, and the Birmingham High School in California, and two different universities in Birmingham, Alabama.
14:06:45 <fizzie> I don't think Finland has many places named after other places, though there's probably a couple. There's an "Egyptinkorpi" ("desert/forest/backwoods of Egypt") in the middle of nowhere in Lieksa, at least.
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14:28:13 <fizzie> Also "Tukholmankatu", in case streets count.
14:30:56 <boily> where is Tukholmankatu?
14:31:34 <fizzie> In Helsinki. ("Tukholma" is the Finnish name of Stockholm.)
14:34:26 <fizzie> Apparently there's a large number of "Amerikka"s all around Finland too.
14:36:07 <fizzie> And a Jerusalemi, Finland somewhere in the general neighborhood of Joensuu.
14:36:29 <fizzie> (So I guess we have these things too.)
14:37:07 <boily> next thing you're going to tell me there's a Finland in Finland.
14:41:21 <fizzie> There's Ditch of Finland, Espoo, Finland. ("Suomenoja".)
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14:57:51 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: did you Cambridge?
15:05:42 <Phantom_Hoover> i decided not to go to cambridge after i found out timwi did maths at the same college i applied to and, well...
15:05:47 <HackEgo> 575) <Phantom_Hoover> oh god oh god <Phantom_Hoover> what if I become <Phantom_Hoover> attracted <Phantom_Hoover> to birds
15:06:41 * boily is suddenly perplexified
15:08:09 <boily> http://www.timwi.com/ ?
15:09:40 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.lionking.org/~timwi/eagles.htm would be more appropriate, probably
15:09:55 <fizzie> I'd be dubious of a consulting company known to be attracted to birds.
15:10:11 * boily replaces his perplexification with terror
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15:27:19 <mrhmouse> Definitely read that as "An Othello soundtrack"
15:27:47 <doesthiswork> is that the name of your new esoteric language?
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15:31:02 <boily> meanwhile, another brainfuck derivative. yéééé.......
15:31:57 <JesseH> Brainfuck isnt really interesting to me
15:32:20 <JesseH> I want to be able to do more with a language if i want
15:33:13 <boily> create a self-modifying Aubergine program?
15:35:12 <JesseH> It's hard to define more
15:35:40 <JesseH> write bindings for gtk, write networked application etc
15:37:01 <boily> is there an esolang out there that has a networking library?
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15:37:11 <boily> (no, Ursala doesn't count.)
15:37:19 <mrhmouse> I think any esolang that can call C libraries counts?
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16:15:04 <john_metcalf> Boiler repaired after four hours. Might be expensive :-(
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17:06:46 <fizzie> fungot: Do you know any esolangs that could do networking?
17:06:54 <fungot> fizzie: http://community.schemewiki.org/ cgi-bin/ viewcvs/ mit-scheme/ snapshot.pkg/ 20060906/
17:07:41 <fizzie> fungot: Your link is broken. Anyway! I'm sure you've heard of at least one language in which it'd be possible to write an IRC client, wink wink.
17:07:41 <fungot> fizzie: do you happen to get something fnord, but it's not
17:07:51 <fizzie> Not getting the hint, I see.
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17:20:07 <olsner> fungot: I got some moldy mushrooms, can I eat them?
17:20:07 <fungot> olsner: that's a lot of lisp companies barely cover the cost of speed, that's why i mentioned ' pretty complete.'
17:20:45 <fizzie> fungot: No, no, mushrooms, not speed.
17:20:45 <fungot> fizzie: ah i had a discrete math lecturer who would lecture painfully and fnord,
17:21:08 <fizzie> I think that's common among discrete math lecturers.
17:21:37 <mrhmouse> My discrete math lecturer would always swing this yardstick about while teaching
17:21:57 <mrhmouse> One day he broke it in two by mistake and, instead of fixing it, hid the pieces in the ceiling
17:22:16 <mrhmouse> Turns out it actually belonged to the professor who lectured in the class before his
17:25:31 <Phantom_Hoover> i remember nothing about my discrete maths lecturer except that he was a total dickhead about the lecture notes
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17:29:03 <mrhmouse> Phantom_Hoover: You should have taken mine. I once got credit on a bonus question that involved finding a number of items in a dark room (I don't remember the specifics) for the answer "It is pitch black. I am likely to be eaten by a grue"
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17:40:37 <boily> back from lunch, and I don't have a package yet. probably very soon.
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17:41:08 <boily> shady and delicious dealings.
17:41:20 <boily> fungot: are your mushrooms tasty?
17:41:20 <fungot> boily: the results of compilation up with the default background so it'll be the killer app for scheme
17:42:17 <fizzie> fungot: A killer app for Scheme? Are you talking about a Starcraft clone?
17:42:18 <fungot> fizzie: improvisational language? you're not fnord with a monad.
17:42:23 <quintopia> boily: those were olsner's mushrooms, and they are moldy
17:42:30 <fizzie> `learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad.
17:43:29 <boily> olsner: mushrooms can get moldy? I didn't know that.
17:43:36 <olsner> is the mold super-death-mold because it can grow on other funguses?
17:43:59 <boily> fizzie: what shall I do for the PDF? should I remove the Minecraft invention snippet, or keep it and append the not fnord?
17:44:05 <olsner> or is it just the mushrooms that kept growing for a bit? or is it just plain mold...
17:44:25 <fizzie> boily: I think you should follow the high-level policy you surely must have formulated before now.
17:45:07 <olsner> unless boily is mechanism, not policy
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17:45:31 <boily> fizzie: rule Nº 1: do whatever it is that feels right, and or keeps eldritch abominations at bay.
17:45:44 <boily> olsner: I am not mechanism, I am at Canada.
17:48:15 <fizzie> "You may still request that your article be published with unrestricted public access, as [REDACTED] is a hybrid publication allowing either traditional publication or Open Access publication. The author publication charge for making your paper Open Access is a discounted US$1750.00, --" I'm not going to start paying that kind of money!
17:48:39 <fizzie> (As far as I know, we don't have a university-wide open access policy guideline thing that'd say they'd pay it.)
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17:49:14 <olsner> publish somewhere else, obviously, you can't avoid being evil if you play with those guys
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18:01:00 <quintopia> publish on arxiv. i hear you can win millennium prizes that way.
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18:18:30 <Bike> the journal might not allow preprints.
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18:22:47 <boily> fungot: are your words preprinted?
18:22:47 <fungot> boily: if i were to try to get ppl to think and think and think and think and think and think.
18:23:32 <fungot> quintopia: int fnord c)
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18:29:28 <olsner> fungot is the great thinker
18:29:28 <fungot> olsner: no idea what half of this it keeps a log cabin
18:29:49 <fungot> FireFly: i signed lotsa those
18:29:55 <boily> fungot: log cabins are good.
18:29:55 <fungot> boily: let's assume local variables are kept in the interpreter, already written many times i set it
18:30:20 <fungot> FireFly: do you prefer books or tv? huh....intriguing have you ever been to. personally i'm not a common lisper? just kidding.
18:30:54 <boily> fungot: books are better, im[REDACTED]o.
18:30:55 <fungot> boily: but the word has had the fnord setup? :) " migrate my process thence!" :)
18:31:21 <boily> fungot: a great plot twist, the “fnord setup”. I never see it coming.
18:31:21 <fungot> boily: ( ( lambda ( x y) ( define ( min. xs)) ( lambda
18:31:29 <FireFly> fungot is asking the important questions here
18:31:29 <fungot> FireFly: found a metallic coat-hanger actually. category pattern* restaurant/pattern template i like to think that performance is a great example
18:31:37 <fizzie> The [REDACTED] journal does allow preprints, for the record.
18:32:11 <boily> the restaurant pattern?
18:32:42 <Bike> hey, british people, can someone tell me what the fuck a 'reader' is
18:33:53 <Bike> kmc: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23LERNorigin&src=hash&f=realtime neat talk on abiogenesis going on (random sorry)
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18:35:42 <olsner> Bike: reader is a pretty common word, what's the context?
18:35:49 <Bike> like in a university
18:36:38 <Bike> like 'i am a reader at x university'
18:37:11 <fizzie> "4. reviewer, referee, reader -- (someone who reads manuscripts and judges their suitability for publication)"?
18:37:30 <Bike> hm... it always seems like a permanent position though
18:37:36 <fizzie> "7. lector, lecturer, reader -- (a public lecturer at certain universities)"?
18:38:01 <fizzie> (The latter sounds more likely.)
18:38:16 <Bike> like this lane guy is "Reader in Evolutionary Biochemistry, Department of Genetics, Evolution and Environment, University College London"
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18:38:37 <fizzie> "4. (chiefly UK) A university lecturer below a professor." (Wiktionary.)
18:38:57 <boily> en:reader, fr:sous-fifre.
18:39:33 <fizzie> "The title of reader in the United Kingdom and some universities in the Commonwealth nations, for example Australia and New Zealand, denotes an appointment for a senior academic with a distinguished international reputation in research or scholarship. It is an academic rank above senior lecturer (or principal lecturer in the new universities), recognising a distinguished record of original ...
18:39:39 <fizzie> ... research at professorial level. In the British ranking, for some universities a reader could be seen as a professor without a chair, similar to the distinction between professor extraordinarius and professor ordinarius at some European universities, professor and chaired professor in Hong Kong and professor B and chaired professor in Ireland. Both readers and professors in the UK would ...
18:39:45 <fizzie> ... correspond to professors in the US."
18:39:49 <boily> (note that «sous-fifre» is usually pejorative)
18:39:49 <fizzie> I wonder if this is slightly the same as the Finnish use of the title of docent.
18:39:53 <Bike> how confusing.
18:40:07 <fizzie> Oh, "An incompatibility of ranking systems between different (English-speaking) countries makes the position of reader difficult to place outside the context of the United Kingdom. A similar title used in some countries, for instance in Sweden, is docent, which is officially translated in English as reader." Guess so.
18:40:40 <fizzie> My immediate supervisor got certified as a docent the other day.
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18:43:25 <Bike> being an academic is suffering.
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18:46:25 <fizzie> I thought it was insufferable, instead.
18:46:33 <boily> Bike is meduka meguca.
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19:34:43 <oerjan> <boily> London and Paris are easy, they're both in Ontario! <-- rubbish, everyone knows paris is in texas
19:37:46 <boily> oerjan: Yukon's Paris is better than Texas's paris, I say.
19:37:55 <boily> (also, helloerjan.)
19:38:31 <mrhmouse> belloily: what's this namello business you're tello?
19:38:49 <boily> mrhmouse: I'm perpetuating a fine chännel tradition.
19:39:39 <boily> (hm. there's also a Paris, and a London, in Kiribati.)
19:40:02 <oerjan> shockingly, wikipedia lists no other nonfictional trondheims.
19:42:17 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Platelet_Disorder ← we have a blood disease!
19:44:58 <ion> “Let It Be” in Minor Key http://youtu.be/SeIyX4KXgpE
19:44:59 <boily> oh, the myndzi-bot is back!
19:45:36 <boily> speaking of weird arrangements, who suggested g-major videos to me?
19:46:14 <oerjan> hm myndzi hasn't been gone, although he _did_ make his script ignore HackEgo ...
19:46:32 <boily> (meanwhile, http://youtu.be/cKce8d_ffS4)
19:46:36 <oerjan> which has obviously broken again.
19:47:31 <oerjan> i don't think we have enough information on mrhmouse to add an entry yet.
19:49:26 <Bike> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/04/19/synthetic-xna-molecules-can-evolve-and-store-genetic-information-just-like-dna/ how are vhs/betamax analogies so common
19:49:37 <Bike> back in the 80s (it was the 80s right) were all ads about betamax and vhs or something
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19:51:19 * oerjan clicked on that link in a vain hope to discover X was for "xylitol".
19:51:42 <oerjan> i mean, it's a sugar replacement, right?
19:52:03 <Bike> you'll just have to survive with cyclohexane.
19:52:57 <Bike> oerjan: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20017539 good news!
19:53:04 <oerjan> hm xylose exists, so xylonucleic acid _should_ be reasonable
19:54:35 * boily takes notes for his next Paranoia campaign... “Give a player a bottle of xylylylytic acid”
19:55:11 <Bike> it's sugar, dude.
19:56:12 <boily> but they don't have the clearance to know that :D
19:56:26 <Bike> oh, right, heh.
19:56:39 <oerjan> google claims xylylylytic is not a word hth
19:56:58 <Bike> describe it as an "extremely virulent bioinformation precursor"
20:02:04 <oerjan> <fizzie> At least there seems to be no university in Cambridge, MA, [...] <-- you should ban yourself for trolling hth
20:03:03 <oerjan> alternately, proofread your lines.
20:03:54 <oerjan> also, stop being idle.
20:04:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:05:17 * boily tapes an electronic eggtimer onto fizzie
20:05:25 <shachaf> oerjan: how about i stop being idle instead
20:05:41 <oerjan> but you cannot ban fizzie.
20:11:47 * boily misses the days where he had voice. those were nice days.
20:11:50 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> no, http://www.lionking.org/~timwi/progs.htm <-- how has timwi avoided being sued by hasbro and/or mattel
20:12:33 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm not a moralist; i can't make "should" statements
20:13:09 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v boily.
20:16:52 <HackEgo> Thanks, anonymous. Thanonymous.
20:17:25 <ion> `run cat "$(which thanks)"
20:17:26 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_.";
20:19:05 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it's part of our anti-idling campaign hth
20:19:45 <ion> antiïdling
20:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> haha, guess whose video's on the front page of /r/math: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHvAqDuWG2M
20:21:35 <HackEgo> Thanks, palatalized. Thalatalized.
20:23:04 <HackEgo> Thanks, tjosentme. Thosentme.
20:24:03 <oerjan> HackEgo: who is this tjo you're speaking for
20:24:36 <boily> fungot: can you coerce HackEgo into speaking?
20:24:36 <fungot> boily: is is occasionally identity, and weak tables.
20:24:45 <boily> HackEgo: see, your tables are weak!
20:26:30 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: why doesn't he have a french accent
20:27:15 <oerjan> well then it's too slight for me to hear
20:28:19 <fungot> FireFly: none at all. :( i can't even be printed!! for dessert, i'll have to write
20:28:46 <FireFly> Hm, seems... philosophical
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20:32:06 <ion> phantom_hoover: Who is he?
20:34:33 <oerjan> i don't think he's done esolangs for a decade.
20:34:51 <oerjan> by which i mean he never responded to the programs i sent him, the bastard.
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20:40:01 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
20:40:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `run: not found
20:40:57 <HackEgo> bash: run: command not found
20:41:07 <HackEgo> You just know when a relationship is about to end. My girlfriend called me \ at work and asked me how you change a lightbulb in the bathroom. "It's very \ simple," I said. "You start by filling up the bathtub with water..."
20:41:33 <Bike> why are all the fortunes creepy
20:41:37 <metasepia> I'm a bisexual; I get it maybe twice a year.
20:42:17 <oerjan> they're secretly all misfortunes
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20:45:26 <boily> does ruddy fortunes?
20:45:43 <mrhmouse> ruddy's certainly excited about fortune
20:45:43 <ruddy> good point. Just not the same one
20:45:54 <boily> btw, who is polytone?
20:46:59 <Bike> polytone: i always toldja that the antiphony was gonna be outdated, but nooooo, you didn't even want to TRY those newfangled fortepianos
20:49:40 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
20:50:02 <HackEgo> bash: command substitution: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: command substitution: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
20:50:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: !!: not found
20:50:22 <HackEgo> bash: command substitution: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: command substitution: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
20:50:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: history: not found
20:50:53 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ́: not found
20:53:03 <Slereah_> What's a good assembler for windows?
20:53:46 <oerjan> generally you want windows made in one piece, they're rather hard to assemble afterwards.
20:54:03 <boily> Slereah_: tasm, iirc.
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20:57:16 <Slereah_> When I launch it it closes immediatly
20:57:21 <Slereah_> I had the same thing with NASM
20:57:57 <Fiora> what commandline did you call it with?
20:59:19 <mrhmouse> oerjan: your sass has been noted and approved
21:00:20 <Slereah_> oerjan : I'm pretty sure if I had the assembly program of windows, I'd be a rich man
21:00:41 <mrhmouse> Slereah_: try running it in a console and checking for error messages. maybe it segfaulted? is that a thing in Windows-land?
21:01:18 <Slereah_> I haven't opened the windows command thing in a while
21:01:25 <FireFly> or it just printed help and exited or something
21:01:46 <Slereah_> Nowadays with the classes it's all ls
21:02:54 <mrhmouse> Windows commandline makes me feel like I'm instructing a grade school student to do calculus over the phone in a language they don't understand
21:03:04 * boily covers Slereah_ with a robe made of stitched 5¼" floppies, all with a glittering different DOS version
21:03:26 <mrhmouse> fungot, where can I get such a robe as Slereah_?
21:03:26 <fungot> mrhmouse: it's easy to parse
21:03:35 <Slereah_> To launch nasm.exe, it's just nasm, right?
21:03:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting).
21:03:47 <mrhmouse> Slereah_: Depends. Is it in your %PATH%?
21:04:05 <Slereah_> Let's whip up some ASM I guess
21:05:30 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:06:21 <Slereah_> Now let's try a thing that will display a thing
21:08:02 <Bike> are you going to use a library or syscalls
21:08:07 <Bike> can you even use syscalls nowadays.
21:08:17 <Bike> (for printing. on windows.)
21:08:37 <Slereah_> I tried using thems interrupts
21:08:52 <Bike> is your guide from the dos era
21:09:00 <Slereah_> Not sure if I'm using the wrong syntax for the assembler or if I just fucked up
21:09:17 <Slereah_> http://w3.ufsm.br/rmbranco/cefet_files/Apostila/8086%20Assembly.pdf < dunno
21:09:18 <Bike> depends on the exact nature of 'didn't work'
21:09:34 <Bike> but it assembled?
21:09:48 <Bike> nasm should complain if you give it something syntactically invalid.
21:10:10 <Bike> indeed it does not.
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21:11:34 <Bike> read? that's gonna be a binary.
21:11:49 <Slereah_> I tried inputting "test", no work
21:11:57 <Bike> how do you normally run programs on windows?
21:11:58 <Slereah_> I tried adding a .exe file extension, it bitched
21:12:32 <Slereah_> If I have to command line things, I just input the exe name in the directory
21:12:38 <boily> Slereah_: usually, you only get object code. you need to link that afterwards to make a real executable.
21:12:39 <Slereah_> But here it doesn't seem to work
21:12:55 <Slereah_> I guess I'd better read the nasm docv
21:12:58 <Bike> oh, i forgot linking. dumb.
21:13:18 <Bike> that's not part of nasm. have you got gcc or something? usually they can call the linker for you
21:13:59 <mrhmouse> I _think_ you can link "test.o" by just calling "gcc test.o".
21:14:12 <Bike> well, mingw oughta be able to do it too.
21:14:21 <mrhmouse> Yeah, it would be pretty much the same
21:14:32 <Slereah_> Now that I got classes on it prolly easier to deal with
21:15:38 <mrhmouse> ruddy can link as well. ruddy is the best at linking.
21:15:39 <ruddy> good point. Just not the same one
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21:16:27 <Slereah_> Apparently the NASM syntax is a bit more complicated than I thought
21:17:08 <impomatic> The NASM manual isn't very clear on how to use macros :-(
21:17:25 <Slereah_> Also what format should I pick
21:17:33 <Slereah_> They use ELF in the example, but I'm not sure
21:17:38 <Bike> On windows use PE.
21:17:46 <FireFly> How *do* you figure out what kind of file a file is without relying on file extensions, in windows?
21:17:56 <FireFly> I'm too used to just `file`ing stuff I don't know what it is
21:18:13 <mrhmouse> FireFly: I don't think you can..
21:18:22 <Slereah_> Well at least not from the GUI
21:18:38 <Slereah_> Usually what I do is to just open it with a variety of programs
21:18:46 <Slereah_> Usually notepad is a pretty good int for the content
21:18:58 <Bike> Slereah_: ELF (Executable and Linking Format) is the format on unixy machines. macs use either that or mach-o, i forget. windows uses PE (Portable Executable).
21:19:06 <Bike> file? format? fuck it
21:22:41 <Slereah_> I just wanted to write some assembly man :(
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21:23:03 <mrhmouse> Bike: it's Format, you were right the first time
21:23:10 <Slereah_> I'm not doing assembly to deal with shells and linking!
21:23:17 <fizzie> Assembly man, assembly man, does whatever assembly can.
21:23:35 <mrhmouse> fizzie: so, everything, but in no reasonable time at all?
21:24:01 <Bike> Slereah_: on the contrary, understanding linking is an important advantage of understanding assembly-level mechanisms.
21:24:04 <mrhmouse> Slereah_: any reason you chose x86 first? IIRC MIPS assembly is supposedly easier to jump into. disclaimer: I haven't actually used it
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21:24:20 <int-e> Slereah_: some assembly required. it's even spelled out in the name!
21:24:22 <Bike> probably because Slereah_'s computer is x86
21:24:27 <Bike> which is a pretty good reason.
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21:24:41 <Slereah> I'll just shoot electrons at my CPU
21:24:53 <Bike> Did you miss something? Check the logs?
21:25:04 <Slereah> [22:23:13] <mrhmouse> fizzie: so, everything, but in no reasonable time at all?
21:25:04 <Slereah> [22:23:38] <Slereah_> I'll just shoot electrons at my CPU
21:25:10 <Bike> yeah, you missed some things.
21:25:14 <Bike> anyway mars is pretty good for mips http://courses.missouristate.edu/kenvollmar/mars/
21:25:24 <boily> does windows have a uname?
21:25:44 <fizzie> Bike: I'm a SPIM man, myself.
21:25:47 <Bike> there's a system information dialogue in the control panel, or there was last i used one, anyway
21:26:12 <fizzie> (Though they've wimped it out completely with a QtSpim.)
21:26:25 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
21:26:27 <Slereah> I chose x86 'cause it's my CPU
21:26:33 <Slereah> I guess I could use a virtual machine
21:26:38 <fungot> shachaf: i have ripped rotty's library out of scheme42, in case somebody is interested, i'll look for you.
21:26:47 <fizzie> "win-r dxdiag" is very slightly like uname, it's what I do.
21:26:57 <mrhmouse> fungot, please don't look for me. that's frightening.
21:26:57 <fungot> mrhmouse: haskell would be ( fnord !p) ( p q)). i woke up
21:26:58 <boily> aurgh. that stupid dhcp/dns thing scrozzled my perfectly fine hostname.
21:27:27 <Slereah> Man why do I even need a linking for a single file
21:27:38 <boily> my machine is «njorun», not «aboily-pc»!
21:27:47 <Bike> Slereah_: because most nontrivial files use library routines.
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21:28:13 <fizzie> Bike: There's a "System Information" block on the first tab, and it's always in path.
21:28:30 <Slereah> I want to use machine code, not libraries ;w;
21:28:47 <Bike> you'll think differently when you want to use printf.
21:29:23 <shachaf> fungot: imo look for Bike instead
21:29:24 <fungot> shachaf: swear filtering gone wrong or a deliberate, evil plot.
21:29:29 <Slereah> If I wanted printf I'd use some C
21:29:43 <Bike> so what do you want to do in assembly?
21:29:57 <Bike> ok, well, there's a problem.
21:30:05 <Slereah> Plus it's the next thing on our curriculum
21:30:12 <Bike> think about it. you need some kind of function to do something as basic as outputting a number as text.
21:30:13 <Slereah> So probably a good idea to check it out
21:30:14 <int-e> > printf "%d %.3f" 1 1.0
21:30:16 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (Text.Printf.PrintfType t)
21:30:19 <int-e> > printf "%d %.3f" 1 1.0 :: String
21:30:21 <mrhmouse> Slereah: what architecture is in your curriculum?
21:30:40 <Slereah> I assume x86 since we have regular PCs
21:30:49 <FireFly> fungot: the latter, I believe
21:30:49 <fungot> FireFly: whoa i changed it to
21:30:57 <Bike> not a good assumption. lots of assembly classes use VM tools.
21:31:03 <mrhmouse> when I covered assembly, we used MIPS
21:31:08 <Bike> MIPS at my school too.
21:31:20 <FireFly> We used a kinda weird kinda MIPSy thing
21:31:20 <Slereah> Plus I saw that you can access the PC speaker pretty easily in assembly, which is neat
21:31:25 <Bike> Also nowadays there's a slim chance the students have ARM-based netbooks, ha ha.
21:31:26 <Slereah> I might try fucking around with that
21:31:44 <fizzie> MIPS is terribly common for assembly courses.
21:32:08 <boily> MIPS is universal for assembly courses. we did it too.
21:32:19 <int-e> mips seems popular (it's a fairly pure RISC architecture)
21:32:25 <Slereah> I think assembly starts next week
21:32:30 <Slereah> The unix class ends tomorrow
21:32:33 <FireFly> we used Nios II, which looks very similar to MIPS from what I've seen about MIPS, but for some reason the Wikipedia article for Nios II doesn't even mention MIPS
21:32:36 <fizzie> MIPS is short for "Mips Is Popular in Schools".
21:33:06 <boily> `learn MIPS Is Popular In Schools.
21:34:05 <mrhmouse> Slereah: low-level sound in #esoteric? have you seen stackbeat? :)
21:34:10 <shachaf> MIPIS Is Popular in Schools
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21:38:46 <oerjan> `learn MIPS Is Popular in Schools.
21:40:15 <Slereah> I wonder, can you write a binary by hand?
21:40:30 <Slereah> Write the program, figure out the opcodes, translate it to ASCII
21:40:50 <mrhmouse> Slereah: check it out. maybe you'll get some inspiration for a project in assembly http://esolangs.org/wiki/StackBeat
21:40:52 <Slereah> Well, put it in a txt file
21:41:06 <Bike> i think you are confused about what assembly is.
21:41:07 <mrhmouse> Slereah: I _guess_ you could write the opcodes by hand with a hex editor?
21:41:25 <Bike> anyway, you're not on DOS, you need pexe format.
21:41:28 <Slereah> I am aware that assembly is to avoid writing opcodes, yes
21:41:41 <Slereah> I am just wondering about that other thing
21:41:49 <fizzie> You could write opcodes -- and executable file headers -- by hand with a good enough text editor, too. (Control characters might be too much for Notepad.)
21:41:50 <Taneb> I wonder how different the Avengers movie would be if Norton had reprised his role as the Hulk
21:42:57 <FireFly> Bike: well you *could* restrict your machine code to the printable-ASCII range...
21:43:04 <FireFly> That would make for some fun programs
21:43:23 <Bike> yeah, they do that for exploits sometimes
21:43:31 <FireFly> I was about to suggest that
21:44:09 <Slereah> Well 126 is guaranteed printable
21:44:10 <FireFly> ASCII doesn't even have 200 characters :D
21:44:17 <mrhmouse> Isn't ASCII 10 the newline? That's printable
21:44:27 <Slereah> A lot of them are after 126 for the most part
21:44:35 <FireFly> mrhmouse: it isn't printable in the sense of what's defined as 'printable ASCII'
21:44:46 <FireFly> Oh, sorry, "ASCII printable characters"
21:44:49 <FireFly> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII#ASCII_printable_characters
21:44:56 <FireFly> Slereah: but those aren't in ASCII.
21:45:04 <mrhmouse> FireFly: Ah, I was just assuming "insertable without control codes" :P
21:45:09 <FireFly> They are in some extension of ASCII, like ISO-8859-1 or whatever
21:45:21 <Slereah> FireFly : Well they are in some versions of ASCII
21:45:44 <mrhmouse> though I suppose "new line" is a control code..
21:45:53 <Slereah> They're characters undefined by the ASCII norms
21:46:05 <Slereah> But for the most part they are used if needed
21:47:04 <Slereah> Wait, is ASCII 7 or 8 bits?
21:47:19 <Bike> there are a lot of them.
21:47:24 <Bike> such as iso whatever.
21:47:33 <fizzie> ISO-8859-1 aka Latin-1 is p. popular.
21:47:43 <fizzie> Well, maybe "was" is a better word.
21:48:34 <mrhmouse> yeah, I think utf-8/utf-16 are more popular these days. maybe 32?
21:48:44 <FireFly> Unicode is the only worthy charset nowadays
21:48:57 <FireFly> s/charset/set of charsets/
21:49:01 * int-e has fond memories of codepage 437
21:49:15 <Slereah> There's no font that has all of it
21:49:16 <FireFly> I guess techincally Unicode could be considered a charset, but not an encoding?
21:49:22 <fizzie> I wouldn't be surprised if there was still quite a lot of Windows-1252 stuff around.
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21:49:35 <Bike> technically? unicode has multiple encodings
21:49:46 <Slereah> I want a font that has all the unicode characters
21:49:57 <Bike> Slereah: "yes i often find myself stymied when i want to use SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW, burmese, and × in the same text"
21:50:31 <FireFly> Slereah: what does it matter, if your font renderer just falls back to a font that has the character if your preferred font doesn't?
21:50:33 <Bike> `unidecode 𓃡𓃢𓃣𓃤𓃥𓃦𓃧𓃨𓃩𓃪𓃫
21:50:35 <HackEgo> [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE1 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE2 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE3 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE4 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE5 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE6 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE7 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE8 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCE9 DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCEA DUNNO] [U+D80C DUNNO] [U+DCEB DUNNO]
21:50:48 <Slereah> FireFly : Some characters are displayed by almost no font
21:51:00 <FireFly> Maybe they're very new to the standard?
21:51:01 <mrhmouse> fizzie: actually I recently came across something in Windows-1251 at work.. but I can't find it now :(
21:51:03 <fizzie> Bike: UCS-2 build of Python strikes again.
21:51:10 <Slereah> Bike : http://codepoints.net/egyptian_hieroglyphs
21:51:15 <impomatic> Why hasn't unicode got a balloon or a candle?
21:51:29 <Slereah> impomatic : They did the emoji recently, I think?
21:51:31 <Bike> i would have picked coptic, myself.
21:51:34 <Slereah> So there's probably some in it
21:51:51 <Bike> they've been doing emoji because of pressure to add emoji.
21:51:52 <int-e> don't forget the essential ♖♘♗♕♔♗♘♖ ♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙ ♟♟♟♟♟♟♟♟ ♜♞♝♛♚♝♞♜ characters
21:52:01 <Bike> lol, yeah sure.
21:52:04 <FireFly> Slereah: why don't you make a font with all the codepoints no-one else has bothered to implement, so we all could install that?
21:52:22 <FireFly> int-e: also, don't forget the domino pieces. or the Mahjongg pieces.
21:52:29 <Slereah> FireFly : Well I just need some time to design 65 million characters
21:52:30 <FireFly> Very essential characters, those
21:52:42 <int-e> (but for shogi there's only ☖☗⛉⛊)
21:52:43 <FireFly> Slereah: maybe that's why no-one else has bothered
21:52:48 <fizzie> There aren't 65 million characters in Unicode.
21:53:24 <int-e> And no dedicated go stones, go players must do with circles, I believe.
21:53:26 <Slereah> I wonder how much they're up to
21:54:18 <Slereah> "Unicode defines a codespace of 1,114,112 code points in the range 0hex to 10FFFFhex"
21:54:40 <fizzie> Yes, but they've allocated only about a hundred thousand and a bit.
21:54:53 <Bike> how many times has this channel talked about unicode. man
21:54:54 <Slereah> There's a lot in the "to do" area though
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21:55:17 <Slereah> They're planning on doing fucking Aztec script
21:55:23 <int-e> ah, more ... ⛀⛁⛂⛃ ⚀⚁⚂⚃⚄⚅
21:55:53 <Slereah> http://www.unicode.org/roadmaps/smp/
21:56:20 <Slereah> In case you want to send an email to King Hammurabi
21:56:30 <int-e> ☔ <- unicode protection, it's raining characters.
21:57:17 <Bike> personally i'm looking forward to tangut support.
21:57:20 <fizzie> I like U+1F5FE SILHOUETTE OF JAPAN, at least it's not unclear where all those characters are coming from.
21:58:08 <int-e> oh, that's right next to lots of stupid? cute? whatever smileys.
21:58:16 <Slereah> Bike : It will only take 17 blocks
21:58:18 <fizzie> It's also right next to STATUE OF LIBERTY, TOKYO TOWER and MOUNT FUJI.
21:58:40 <fizzie> Wonder what they need the STATUE OF LIBERTY for.
21:58:53 <Bike> because they tragically lack sa's crying eagle emote.
21:58:54 <int-e> (my font (whatever gucharmap is using) doesn't have those :/)
21:59:08 <Bike> Wait, they're adding blissymbols? Huh.
21:59:22 <Bike> and phaisos disk, nice
21:59:41 <Bike> oh shit, deseret
22:00:03 <Bike> they used to have to use private use for that.
22:00:15 <Slereah> By that point they're just adding whatever ancient script there is
22:00:20 <Slereah> Soon there will be cave drawings
22:00:37 <fizzie> U+3425C LEFT-FACING MAMMOTH WITH TWO SPEARS
22:00:42 <Bike> well it is supposed to include all text.
22:00:57 <Bike> i had no idea the hittites had hieroglyphs
22:01:05 <Bike> except they're not hittite
22:01:10 <Slereah> I can't wait until aliens come and they have to include all alien scripts
22:01:17 <FireFly> fizzie: is that an actual codepoint?
22:01:34 <int-e> I'm more irritated by things like U+1D794 MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC CAPITAL EPSILON
22:01:40 <Slereah> U+F4A86A GLIXNAR VENUSIAN GLYPH
22:02:16 <FireFly> Hm, is it bad that I had to ask?
22:02:32 <Slereah> With unicode, you never know
22:02:41 <Slereah> There's a penis character in unicode
22:02:52 <FireFly> I mean, there's (at least) five different characters of the moon with a face, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were one for left-facing mammoths with spears
22:02:58 <Slereah> One of the egyptian hieroglyph determinative is a penis
22:03:00 <fizzie> FireFly: I don't think there's anything in astral plane 3 yet.
22:03:08 <Bike> it turns out that the aliens have extelligence only in the form of long-term self-sustaining chemical reactions. unicode consortium throne into a penis.
22:03:23 <Bike> possibly a penis, i really fucked up that sentence
22:03:46 <fizzie> Just the prime materi... I mean, basic multilingual plane, and astral planes 1, 2, E and F.
22:03:51 <int-e> funny. google for "�" says it matches no pages. duckduckgo displays a picture of an elephant. duckduckgo won that round :)
22:04:00 <Slereah> They're gonna be so embarrassed when it turns out the aliens have 4D letters
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22:04:11 <fizzie> Man, they so should call BMP the "prime material plane" in Unicode terminology.
22:05:01 <fizzie> (And refer to its characters disparagingly as "primes".)
22:05:15 <Slereah> What about the outer planes
22:05:23 <Slereah> Which part of unicode is lawful neutral
22:05:46 <int-e> Slereah: there are lots of unassigned codepoints.
22:06:00 <Slereah> Well yes, that's why they're adding more!
22:06:01 <fizzie> They've got 16 outer planes, they could easily map the D&D standard ring to those.
22:06:11 <int-e> not sure whether that's lawful, but it doesn't get any more neutral :)
22:06:33 <Slereah> I would think that control characters are lawful neutral
22:06:56 <Slereah> I guess unicode doesn't have elvish or klingon
22:07:08 <Slereah> They're probably copyrighted anyway
22:07:12 <fizzie> No, though both have been proposed.
22:07:21 <Slereah> Also : no Batman or Prince symbol
22:08:10 <fizzie> Hm, the proposed Tengwar region is still in the roadmap.
22:08:18 <fizzie> I remember that the Klingon proposal was entirely shot down, at least.
22:08:54 <Slereah> The unicode people probably responded NEEEEEERDS
22:10:47 <fizzie> http://www.unicode.org/roadmaps/smp/ -- Cirth and Tengwar (the Tolkienesque things) are there on line 160, in the font that's for "scripts for which proposals have been formally submitted to the UTC or to WG2".
22:11:20 <fizzie> "As a result, blogs in pIqaD have begun to appear, --" it's the Klingon blogosphere.
22:11:20 <Slereah> 3. Requester typeExpert request
22:11:33 <Slereah> 2. Information on the user community?Tengwar enjoys both scholarly and popular use.
22:12:19 <fizzie> Well, there's magazines published in it and all.
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22:15:15 <mrhmouse> I have a Tengwar font that just replaces [a-zA-Z0-9]
22:15:51 <Bike> requesting klingon translation of 'blogosphere'
22:16:16 <Slereah> They have no word for blogosphere, but a hundred for flamewars
22:16:19 <fizzie> There's a "shadow registry" of mappings of different conlangs to the Unicode Private Use Area -- http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/
22:17:22 <Bike> unicode has blissymbols proposed, but not solresol?
22:19:41 <Bike> jesus fucking christ am i talking about blissymbols just to avoid homework
22:19:57 <fizzie> You should type your homework in blissymbols.
22:20:35 <Bike> i am unsure how to translate 'monocot'
22:21:30 <fizzie> Bike: I think you combine the symbol for plant and the number 1.
22:23:05 <Bike> for plants? what would be like, a gymnosperm, then
22:23:40 <fizzie> It probably involves some kind of caret pointing at something.
22:24:12 <Bike> i wonder if any 'logical language' people have ever looked at what a clusterfuck systematics is. maybe that would convince them they're barking up a nonexistent tree
22:25:04 <Slereah> Everytime I see "lojban", I always interpret it as "logical banter"
22:25:07 <Bike> i also wonder if any logical language person has seriously considered describing humans in terms of their jaws, as systematists do.
22:25:14 <Bike> Slereah: that's kind of the idea, no?
22:25:25 <Slereah> yeah, but it's probably not the etymology
22:25:33 <Slereah> Loj is probably from logic
22:25:46 <Bike> i think it is, actually. it's not like they only used english roots.
22:26:00 <Slereah> " "Lojban" is a compound formed from loj and ban, which are short forms of logji (logic) and bangu (language), respectively. "
22:26:17 <Slereah> Hm, doesn't specify where they got bangu from
22:26:20 <Bike> man, have you ever thought to yourself, yes, having jaws is awesome
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22:26:32 <shachaf> Bike: have you considered the many alternatives
22:26:47 <mrhmouse> Bike: I just have the one jaw, where did you get your second one?
22:26:49 <Slereah> I wouldn't mind having an anteater face
22:26:58 <Bike> shachaf: what, like mandibles? fuck 'em
22:27:16 <Bike> advantages of jaws include: adaptive immune system
22:27:33 <shachaf> aren't mandibles a kind of jaws
22:28:11 <Bike> i mean bony jaws.
22:28:22 <Bike> of the gnathostomata, of which you are and bikes are
22:29:21 <Bike> a gnathostome.
22:34:01 <mrhmouse> `learn shachaf is a gnathostome
22:36:00 <shachaf> uh do you just overwrite old wisdom entries like that all the time
22:36:26 <mrhmouse> does `learn overwrite? I thought it was concatenative
22:36:55 <mrhmouse> either way, it's versioned, so it can be rolled back..
22:37:52 <Bike> it overwrites.
22:39:22 <mrhmouse> shachaf: should I revert that, then?
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22:51:22 <mrhmouse> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/6295652cdd8a
22:51:56 <shachaf> i don't think it's up to me
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23:26:42 <HackEgo> olist (932): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly
23:39:55 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/oerjan: line 1: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:
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