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00:26:31 <oerjan> i have a hunch our wiki's rectwrap class is no longer working for IE11 :(
00:27:44 <oerjan> (by which i mean, i tried to fix lucasieks' edit to use it, it didn't look good, which made me look at the other places i knew it was used, and it no longer looked good there either.)
00:28:20 <oerjan> which isn't really surprising since it depends on IE having a parser difference.
00:30:19 <quintopia> i have a friend who does the product testing on IE
00:30:49 * kmc watches Mr. van Doom's talk about esolangs
00:31:15 <oerjan> quintopia: i may be guessing that they fixed the parsing to be compliant with everyone else, _without_ fixing the thing that makes the usual style setting for making every other browser wrap things rectangularly break on IE
00:31:46 <oerjan> and the parser hack is necessary because the thing that makes it work for IE, makes firefox break instead.
00:32:32 <oerjan> quintopia: btw this is our hack .rectwrap { word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: pre\9 }
00:32:33 <quintopia> Taneb: can you relink that i'll watch it too
00:32:58 <Taneb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FGKQu70TU
00:33:14 <oerjan> the \9 makes either IE ignore that option or everyone else, i don't quite remember.
00:34:22 <kmc> $ screen -r
00:34:23 <quintopia> oerjan: can't we just make a bad-IE-specific css and <!--if IE lt 11 (or whatever that syntax is) around its inclusion?
00:34:24 <kmc> that ain't good
00:35:09 <oerjan> oh it was back in september, so it must have worked in IE10 as well
00:35:45 <kmc> Taneb: what group was this given for?
00:36:13 <oerjan> quintopia: no, because IE has not supported that syntax in a while, including for IE 9 which needs the hack
00:36:41 <kmc> serve the style sheet from a PHP script which looks at the User-agent header
00:37:05 <oerjan> kmc: ooh, that's evil :P
00:37:19 <Taneb> kmc, my uni's computer enthusiast society
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00:44:06 <oerjan> hm ok just removing the \9 makes it work in IE11
00:47:36 <oerjan> although i have no idea why it needs _both_ white-space: settings.
00:53:27 <kmc> (you can also do that client-side with JS which creates a <script> element, or sets the src= on one)
01:02:20 <oerjan> kmc: this is in mediawiki btw
01:03:19 <oerjan> so there are strict limits to how much can be done before elliott puts his foot down in despair.
01:03:38 <kmc> OH: "I'm confused, is drinking winning or losing?"
01:07:15 <oerjan> elliott: can you reload css with ctrl-F5 and visit http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox and tell if the two pre blocks look equal? and anyone else with firefox and/or chrome.
01:07:33 <oerjan> he seems disturbingly idle.
01:07:59 <elliott> first one has newline before block of C, second does not
01:08:42 <oerjan> that means the new version looks better than the old one :)
01:09:19 <elliott> the second one looks better to me
01:09:43 <oerjan> (i want the version which looks as close to rectangular as possible, of course.
01:09:53 <oerjan> and anyone with firefox?
01:11:10 <elliott> second has horizontal scrollbar in FF
01:12:07 <elliott> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/word-wrap
01:12:10 <elliott> note the Note there, perhaps
01:12:28 <elliott> and also: word-wrap:break-word can be used to work around lack of pre{white-space:pre-wrap} support in IE 5.5-7. See white-space for an example.
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01:14:08 <oerjan> elliott: however that's not in the part that is parsed differently
01:14:57 <oerjan> it's the need for whether to have white-space: pre or not which messes up things.
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01:16:09 <oerjan> IE11 seems to require _both_ white-space: pre-wrap and white-space: pre, for some unfathomable reason (aren't they overriding each other?)
01:16:32 <oerjan> elliott: what do you mean by "same"
01:19:48 <oerjan> hm i found the link for the hack again
01:19:57 <oerjan> http://jsbin.com/bulletproof-responsive-pre/2/edit
01:20:18 <oerjan> i think i will try copying all of it.
01:20:34 <oerjan> since that page actually looks good to me.
01:24:24 <oerjan> elliott: ok can you recheck now
01:27:09 <oerjan> chrome and firefox. of course the full hack is supposed to work in even more, so if you've got them... :P
01:27:24 <elliott> second rectangular in chrome
01:27:34 <elliott> first is not rectangular in chrome
01:27:48 <oerjan> no matter, first is the old version which was only part of the hack
01:27:59 <elliott> in IE11, neither are rectangular
01:28:01 <oerjan> and which somehow stopped working
01:28:11 <oerjan> i'm using IE11 you doofus :P
01:28:30 <elliott> then our configurations or versions differ
01:29:52 <elliott> I don't know how to update IE
01:30:09 <oerjan> elliott: well in my "about IE" there's a checkbox for it
01:30:18 <elliott> I can tell you what rules it thinks applies to that element
01:31:13 <elliott> word-break: break-all; word-wrap: break-word; (this one crossed out but ticked:) white-space: pre; (not ticked, i.e. not understood:) white-space: -moz-pre-wrap; (ticked:) white-space: pre-wrap; (not ticked:) white-space: pre\9;
01:31:51 <elliott> maybe you are using compatibility view
01:33:06 <oerjan> sorry, discard that. i must of forgot to reload properly, the last one no longer looks rectangular. :(
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01:38:42 <elliott> you can look at the difference between which rules are being applied in each version with "Inspect element"
01:38:44 <oerjan> oh well i guess i shall have to wait until get-the-damn-browsers-to-cooperate hacking technology improves
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01:39:04 <kmc> what's the page in question
01:39:18 <oerjan> also i reverted the last css hack
01:39:32 <oerjan> kmc: well i put up a test on Esolang:Sandbox
01:39:58 <kmc> as in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox ?
01:40:00 <oerjan> currently the css is defined so that the second works in IE11 and chrome, the first works in chrome and firefox
01:40:19 <oerjan> the hack used for the first _used_ to work in previous IE.
01:40:39 <kmc> in servo it's a blank grey page
01:41:00 <oerjan> i don't think i particularly worry about that.
01:42:49 <oerjan> perhaps we're just in a state where there is no css-only hack that works on the latest versions of all major browsers, well them's the breaks
01:43:40 <oerjan> of course the page where i got the hack from works because it wraps actual text and not reams of punctuation strings.
01:45:53 <oerjan> elliott: we probably _could_ split common.css by browser as kmc said, right?
01:47:25 <oerjan> we may be the only site on the net which actually needs this to work with reams of punctuation :P
01:47:51 <elliott> one possible problem with rectangular wrapping is that it is hard to tell when there are newlines or not
01:48:27 <oerjan> elliott: well i wouldn't be using .rectwrap for any language which allows newlines for normal formatting anyhow
01:49:18 <oerjan> so so far it hasn't been a problem, i think
01:50:06 <oerjan> also, i don't think this wrapping method hides that unless the previous line is accidentally maximal length.
02:18:04 <shachaf> kmc: how can it be blank and grey at the same time
02:18:19 <kmc> a whiter shade of pale
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02:40:26 <doesthiswork> there has been an increase in the use of the construction "word / word" in this channel over the years
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02:58:46 <Sgeo> My gf is shocked that I haven't seen The Nightmare Before Christmas
03:11:54 <doesthiswork> is she going to make you watch it and stay the night?
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03:15:57 <oerjan> hm... http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1sbfmb/honorary_doctorate_for_simon_peyton_jones_on/cdw471w?context=3
03:16:50 <Sgeo> You don't need a PhD to program in Haskell, but you need one to write well-designed libraries
03:17:13 <oerjan> are you saying that spj doesn't write well-designed libraries.
03:17:14 <Sgeo> (Actually, how many libraries are a direct result of a PhD program? I think there's at least one)
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03:28:41 <oerjan> i don't know, i just have a doctorate in science, like spj.
03:29:59 <shachaf> what's the matter, doctorate your tongue?
03:30:05 <oerjan> this apparently makes you retroactively good at programming haskell. sadly i only found haskell afterwards.
03:31:01 <oerjan> shachaf: no, dr. lecter was not involved.
03:31:16 <shachaf> did you write thc, the trondheim haskell compiler
03:32:31 <oerjan> sadly i got laziness into the wrong part of the process
03:33:03 <shachaf> 19:08 <lightquake> "If [monads are] useful, you'd think one of the best hackers [Paul Graham] would have said something about it."
03:33:06 <shachaf> 19:08 <lightquake> never change, hacker news
03:33:58 <Sgeo> Does Paul Graham have anything to say about continuations?
03:33:59 <oerjan> monads are the coblubs of pg
03:34:30 <Sgeo> At least some CLers think that they're useful, otherwise cl-cont and that web framework based on it wouldn't exist
03:35:56 <shachaf> i went and looked at the thread and it's worse than i imagined
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03:44:07 <Bike> why would you give a shit about paul graham
04:03:11 <Bike> oh, hacker news jokes, i see
04:07:46 <quintopia> i don't have that character in my charset and i wish i did
04:08:45 <Bike> ^confused face?
04:09:43 <oerjan> i see about 2/3 of it, as usual with putty
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04:40:04 <HackEgo> rntz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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05:19:46 <quintopia> is there a standard for specifying cyclic tags with i/o
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06:56:43 <zzo38> Do you know if OpenMPT will load .MOD files with arbitrary note values?
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09:20:31 <HackEgo> 873) <fizzie> fungot: Are you the previous version of zzo38? <fungot> fizzie: i run some interactive tex programs
09:20:44 <shachaf> ruddy: Are you the previous version of fungot?
09:25:30 <lexande> kmc: the topic of this channel seems kind of dubious, isn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church%E2%80%93Kleene_ordinal beyond your reach?
09:25:51 <shachaf> fungot: is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church%E2%80%93Kleene_ordinal beyond your reach?
09:26:02 <shachaf> fizzie: what's with fungot?
09:26:05 <shachaf> ruddy: is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church%E2%80%93Kleene_ordinal beyond your reach?
09:26:06 <ruddy> help? you're beyond help, i'm afraid.
09:26:07 <Bike> look, i know i put it on the top shelf but it's not that high up.
09:26:24 <mroman_> Is there an esolang based on string rewriting/regex/pattern matching?
09:26:51 <shachaf> lexande: should i learn about large *dinals and if so how
09:27:12 <mroman_> a little bit less esoteric than thue
09:27:36 <Bike> well, not an esolang.
09:28:52 <mroman_> http://codepad.org/HuSC19El <- like haskell
09:28:59 <mroman_> but I need regexes in the patterns :(
09:30:35 <mroman_> Of course I can do this with evey language with regex bindings
09:30:45 <mroman_> but I'd like to have some native support :)
09:35:36 <zzo38> Things that natively do regex mainly include sed, Perl, AWK, and a few others.
09:36:02 <myname> sed being turing complete should do the job
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10:19:20 <zzo38> In this program sometimes I have JSR to a subroutine and then it does a few other things and then falls through into the same subroutine. (In one case it does not do anything else in between.) This can save space and also speed up the program. It is sort of like tail calling but with falling through. What is it called?
10:22:08 <zzo38> Replacing a JSR ... RTS with JMP will save one byte and nine cycles. Falling through saves another three bytes and three cycles.
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10:53:03 <olsner> maybe a sibling call (sibling tail call?)
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11:28:18 <fizzie> fungot: Is something with you?
11:28:18 <fungot> fizzie: what you really want to go
11:28:48 <fizzie> shachaf: I'unno. ruddy's ignored, and maybe you were over the four-consecutive-messages limit.
11:28:51 <ruddy> it might, in any case other fizzie's fizzie's
11:30:38 <olsner> fungot: what do you really want to go today?
11:30:38 <fungot> olsner: is that your new lang? it looks to me that it was only a recording of that.
11:36:44 <fungot> shachaf: i was thinking today about token based languages rather than english from time to time
11:36:59 <fungot> shachaf: so that " make dist" if i call that c and c++ are languages for smart people, starting with macro-expand-time: they need to do
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11:40:42 <FireFly> fungot: token-based languages? interesting
11:40:42 <fungot> FireFly: that violates the standard, so when you read it
11:40:48 <fungot> FireFly: it is actually a channel about scheme is that the students all have windows at home myself.
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11:59:46 <fizzie> `run echo 'Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people.' > wisdom/c++ # C already had a good-enough entry
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12:08:59 <HackEgo> C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault
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12:30:29 <lexande> fungot: is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church%E2%80%93Kleene_ordinal beyond your reach?
12:30:30 <fungot> lexande: what should i do that most places don't look at their w2k that took over 5 mins to recover from the feeling of the line
12:35:50 <olsner> apparently fungot moonlights recovering data from feelings, but refuses to answer questions about the Church-Kleene ordinal
12:35:51 <fungot> olsner: there's an advantage to doing it by hand, and thus fnord
12:36:31 <fungot> olsner: italian design for young urban professionals. we're on surgery here, ight? no
12:37:51 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
12:41:17 <lexande> whose fault is printf's %n?
12:49:53 <fungot> olsner: ok, thanks. i think
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12:58:55 <fungot> FireFly: ( probably off somewhere, sacrificing virgins or something like it.
12:59:29 <FireFly> fungot: never mind me then. carry on
12:59:29 <fungot> FireFly: assumes as posix os in it you need to use
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13:08:50 <Slereah> I wonder if using evolutionary algorithms on esolang would give good results
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13:42:36 <mroman_> Is there a type safe object oriented languag
13:42:48 <mroman_> one that does not even support not-type-safe-stuff
13:42:59 <mroman_> casting an Object back to a String
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14:48:08 <Jafet> Ocaml (only 17 years old)
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15:17:37 <oklopol> casting an object to a string is not type safe?
15:27:24 <Halite[tablet]> Can a data type be defined just by an array of strings?
15:32:25 <oklopol> oh did he mean that the object is a string object and it's cast back to the original
15:33:02 <oklopol> i thought like taking an object and getting <object of type 'int' at 0x0192839177389274932>, which i don't think is very dangerous
15:34:17 <oklopol> assuming the language does not allow operations that looks suspiciously like they are parsing the value from that output
15:47:01 <Halite[tablet]> In a first-class and class-based system, can first-class classes exist?
15:47:31 <Bike> gee, like smalltalk?
15:55:21 <Halite[tablet]> On another topic, I can't tell the difference between prototype based and class based systems anymore
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16:25:11 <mroman_> oklopol: Of course not @Object to String
16:25:50 <mroman_> That Object could have initially been a UdpConnectionSocket or something else
16:27:01 <mroman_> Unless you can prove at compile time that it actually was a String
16:27:51 <mroman_> (String)(Object)new String("foo"); is fine with me
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17:35:15 <olsner> hmm, is the baltic called "east sea" in finnish too?
17:38:41 <olsner> somehow ended up watching soumi on ruotsalainen
17:42:14 <mroman_> does OCaml curry like Haskell?
17:48:34 <quintopia> mroman_: why ocaml and not that other ml-like thing
17:51:37 <mroman_> Whats the other ml-like thing?
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18:11:16 <kmc> nobody uses the OO features of ocaml
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18:41:34 <quintopia> it seems p cool man. the guarantees it makes about the web services it creates
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19:51:18 <Taneb> I have eaten way too much aaah
19:51:43 <Taneb> Also I'm back in Hexham
19:52:56 <ais523> Taneb: is that a warning to Guest77471 to watch out that they don't recognise you by mistake?
19:54:35 <quintopia> ais523: i have my ping phrases set up to ping on my nick even if it is not currently my nick. perhaps elliott is also so prepared.
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19:55:12 <ais523> quintopia: I have my ping set like that, too, but if someone chooses a name, it's only polite to use it (unless the name is clearly trying to make a mockery of the process)
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19:55:47 <quintopia> ais523: i don't think that name was chosen. it looks more like a failure to identify.
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20:30:48 <int-e> @tell b_jonas have a look at https://github.com/int-e/zeckendorf please
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20:48:27 <kmc> http://www.beelinereader.com/ neato
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22:39:07 <int-e> Oh my god, it's full of bugs!
22:43:56 <nooodl> meanwhile in #haskell <bx> \msg lambdabot Hi
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22:53:08 <oerjan> <shachaf> lexande: should i learn about large *dinals and if so how <-- i recommend large testudinals
22:54:05 <ion> shachaf: Achievement Unlocked: finally got around to emailing him.
22:54:05 <oerjan> i hear you never run out no matter how far down you go
22:58:37 <int-e> and running lambdabot in a cabal sandbox does not really work; I can't tell mueval about the local package db.
23:00:44 <oerjan> int-e: there's no environment variable or something?
23:03:44 <oerjan> who mentioned stardinals.
23:04:58 <oerjan> quintopia: they're wildcardinals hth
23:05:17 <int-e> oerjan: thanks, there is GHC_PACKAGE_PATH
23:07:27 <oerjan> i can see them, romping through the gardens
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23:16:41 <olsner> oerjan: naked, fat and wearing funny hats?
23:17:35 <oerjan> i was trying not to see them quite _that_ clearly, thank you
23:22:36 <oerjan> <ais523> Taneb: is that a warning to Guest77471 to watch out that they don't recognise you by mistake? <-- hm does elliott know what Taneb looks like now, with the youtube talk and all
23:22:52 <ais523> but if e does, that's a terrifying prospect
23:23:03 <oerjan> also i agree with fizzie that he looks unexpectedly normal.
23:24:32 <oerjan> Taneb: i think you shall have to wear a mask outdoors while in hexham in the future. oh wait...
23:28:07 <oerjan> hm that would do it i guess.
23:28:21 <oerjan> or wait it's simply lambdabot doing that when output is empty?
23:32:58 <oerjan> > vsep $ text <$> ['a'..'c']
23:34:45 <oerjan> > vcat $ text <$> ['a'..'c']
23:34:47 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Char' with `[GHC.Types.Char]'
23:35:12 <oerjan> > vcat $ text . return <$> ['a'..'c']
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