00:00:10 <tswett> 6. The method of claim 5, where the second process is a process that has been successful in the past.
00:00:41 <tswett> 7. The method of claim 1, where the process is chosen based on an analysis of the predicted results of the process.
00:01:13 <tswett> 8. The method of claim 7, where the analysis involves deductive and/or inductive logic.
00:02:25 <tswett> 9. The method of claim 8, where the logic is used to infer—
00:02:50 <tswett> Though, yeah, that one typo gives me an idea.
00:04:36 <tswett> Perhaps by filing a patent on this claim, we could end up with a patent that could be enforced against anything:
00:04:39 <tswett> 1. The method of claim 1.
00:15:07 <Jafet> Is the irc log a valid repertory of prior art
00:15:45 <tswett> I'd say it probably is, really.
00:29:34 <coppro> tswett: is this a real patent? it should be
00:30:16 <tswett> Submit it to the patent office and list me as a co-inventor.
00:38:25 <zzo38> Is there a file to download the entire SDL 1.x documentation into my computer?
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02:00:29 <Taneb> ...I live within 50 miles of where half of my great-great grandparents were born
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02:38:57 <quintopia> your family should get out more :P
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03:11:02 <Sgeo> http://phys.org/news/2012-09-scientists-renowned-uncertainty-principle.html this... doesn't sound likely to be accurate
03:11:21 <Sgeo> Does anyone have more information?
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03:17:01 <Bike> if i'm reading it right it's not actually talking about the momentum-position inequality
03:18:27 <Bike> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=6668117941979885066 anyway, more info for ya
03:18:39 <Bike> i am unhappy that phys rev lett wants me to sign in just to see citations
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03:19:57 <Bike> kmc: why does anyone even like pg (reading responses to your hacker tweet)
03:20:30 <kmc> he's smart, he understands his industry, and he is very good at pandering to young smart people with no perspective
03:20:34 <Bike> "startup gospel" is a terrifying phrase
03:21:29 <Bike> my impression of him is mostly from #lisp, because every few weeks a wide-eyed twenty-something comes in and talks about wanting to do everything like pg, and then leaves in a huff when we talk about bad style or whatever stupid thing
03:21:46 <kmc> yeah his Lisp book is... unorthodox
03:21:50 <kmc> MACROS FOR EVERYTHING
03:21:56 <kmc> YOU GET A MACRO! YOU GET A MACRO! EVERYONE GETS A MACRO!
03:22:07 <kmc> i think even diehard lispers tend to acknowledge that, like, functions are also a p. cool way to abstract
03:22:10 <Bike> and then they get like, offended when people say that, i may as well be spitting on muhammad
03:22:42 <Bike> yeah the first thing people do in lisp (including myself...) is write an assload of worthless macros >_>
03:23:08 <Bike> i think i wrote one to abstract calling web apis, a very function thing
03:23:51 <quintopia> i'm pretty sure my first lisp programs were stateless
03:23:54 <Bike> anyway point is fuck that guy
03:24:35 <Bike> Real Hackers call it pointless
03:25:54 <Bike> also the actual reason i asked is there was a guy talking about how lispers shouldn't use vim, on this tweet about pg being a sexist git, and it's like dude no c'mon
03:26:05 <kmc> yeah seriously
03:26:25 <kmc> i start bashing pg and people are like "yeah he's not a REAL HACKER either! he didn't write enough codez"
03:26:40 <quintopia> well, it does seem like emacs gets tailored to lispers more. with lispbox and whatnot
03:26:55 <Bike> that's not the point
03:27:21 <Bike> the point is if i start complaining about hitler's policies re the romani you don't complain about his anti-smoking campaign being ineffective
03:27:54 <Bike> hitler analogies are so tempting, every time.
03:28:34 <quintopia> but you know he could have been revolutionary. think how much better off the germans would have been if they'd started to quit smoking in the 30s!
03:29:01 <kmc> Bike: he also banned tubas and decreased the compensation given to passengers on delayed reichsbahn trains!
03:29:05 <kmc> #lessercrimesofthethirdreich
03:29:57 <Bike> i thought "there is more to life than this" was from shakespeare or something but it turns out to be the name of a self-help book by a spirit talker, so, nevermind
03:30:20 <Bike> wait, how do you ban tubas
03:30:22 <kmc> "Christ, what an asshole"
03:30:43 <kmc> Bike: go around arresting people who play the tuba? how do you ban anything
03:31:23 <quintopia> i have to say, hitler was somewhat less nice to his fellow man than he could have been, wouldn't you say?
03:31:37 <Bike> look i'm imagining this and i'm stuck on the idea of a 'tuba control board' a la the dea
03:31:51 <kmc> Hitler is a jerk, Mussolini is a weenie
03:32:38 <kmc> Bike: the German name would be 100x better
03:32:47 <quintopia> Bike: the GSP could have been sent to break up polka bands and smash the tuba
03:32:50 <Bike> that's very true
03:33:29 <Bike> i remember hearing something interesting slash not a joke about subversive jazz clubs in the reich, maybe they brought in tubas when they really wanted to flip off the powers that be
03:33:31 <kmc> also i can't find a citation for this
03:33:34 <kmc> maybe it was accordians instead
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03:34:58 <quintopia> accordions were the superpopularist
03:47:57 <Bike> Sgeo: http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.4853 looks particularly relevant... maybe
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04:06:23 <Sgeo> Bike: I have little idea what that's saying. Is it saying there are things similar to what Heisenberg covers, but their definitions weren't like that of Heisenberg, but this paper redefines stuff to make them match closer?
04:07:03 <Bike> anyway i'm pretty sure this isn't about the actual inequality
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05:14:23 <kmc> Bike: y no retweet for "decal of Calvin pissing on that Game of Life glider logo"
05:15:06 <Bike> i've seen too many of those with truck brands
05:20:04 <kmc> that's the joke, or something
05:21:21 <Bike> there's a trauma
05:24:25 <Jafet> Calvin and Muad'dib is gone
05:50:30 <kmc> current status: http://candyaddict.com/blog/candy_images/meiji_chocorooms.jpg
05:51:34 <kmc> "Bottom line: if you think candies that look like mushrooms are irresistibly cute, then Chocorooms are for you." douglass_ is like YEP YEP YEP YEP
05:55:06 <zzo38> Are any C compilers supporting functions declared as "extern static"? I think not.
05:55:23 <kmc> what do those mean
05:56:08 <Gregor> zzo38: Considering that static means "not exported", to support such a construct would be a direct violation of the C specification.
05:56:55 <zzo38> Gregor: Yes, that is what I would think.
05:57:17 <Gregor> Some might support having both keywords in a declaration, but it certainly wouldn't actually have both behaviors (since it can't)
06:00:27 <zzo38> Maybe I should specify in "Black-C", that it is allow "extern static", inside of a #master ... #endmaster block. If it is given the filename which is currently being compiled, then it is exported, otherwise it is external and always links to the named file, and other than that it acts like it is actually "static", even though it isn't.
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06:03:35 <kmc> tell me more about Black-C and #master
06:05:35 <zzo38> For example if you write #master "plain.c" and have a bunch of things declared "extern static", they act like static for most purposes but are actually belonging to the file "plain.o" (and name-mangling is applied, only in such a circumstance). One purpose would be to allow implementing run-time type identifications.
06:05:57 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/black_c.txt
06:07:06 <kmc> long long long
06:07:35 <kmc> "Structures do not have to have any members. Their size is zero if so." this is incompatible with C++ fwiw
06:08:14 <kmc> what's a "designated initializer"?
06:08:42 <zzo38> It isn't meant to be compatible with C++. However, that feature is compatible with GNU C.
06:08:58 <zzo38> It is meant to be compatible with C, not C++.
06:10:22 <zzo38> This is describing "designated initializer": http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Designated-Inits.html
06:12:34 <kmc> int whitespace[256] = { [' '] = 1, ['\t'] = 1, ['\h'] = 1, ['\f'] = 1, ['\n'] = 1, ['\r'] = 1 };
06:16:00 <zzo38> Yes, like that, too.
06:22:26 <nooodl> hmm... i see people store boolean values in ints like that a lot in C
06:23:23 <nooodl> isn't that usually a waste of space? why not store boolean values in chars and have them take up only one byte, guaranteed?
06:23:26 <Bike> there isn't a distinct boolean type, so...
06:24:57 <monotone> That's a bitfield, so it's one bit per, not one byte.
06:25:25 <kmc> I think people don't like char for function parameters because in the dark ages there were no function prototypes, so the chars would get embiggened to ints anyway
06:25:38 <kmc> but that doesn't explain storing ints in an array like that
06:25:47 <monotone> Oh, derp, misread that, never mind.
06:25:48 <kmc> I think that would be considered bad style yeah
06:25:53 <kmc> though on some machines it might be significantly faster
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06:25:59 <kmc> so it depends on your constraints
06:30:24 <zzo38> I would think it is good since then you can access it in a more easily kind of way, and yes since it can be faster, too
06:30:32 <zzo38> So I don't consider it bad style
06:31:37 <kmc> it can be slower, too
06:32:31 <zzo38> Yes, depending what you are doing.
06:44:41 <Sgeo> http://isup.me/downforeveryoneorjustme.com
06:44:46 <Sgeo> That's just so wrong
06:45:35 <shachaf> Sgeo............................................................................................
06:46:30 <Sgeo> What, it's completely impossible for DNS to get screwed up so that downforeveryoneorjustme.com stops working but isup.me doesn't?
06:47:12 <kmc> `quote domain name system
06:47:13 <HackEgo> 982) <kmc> ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] <kmc> Domain Name System [...] <kmc> ♫ domain name system ♫
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07:03:27 <Bike> https://www.eff.org/document/quantum-surveillance-familiar-actors-and-possible-false-flags-syrian-malware-campaigns who needs crypto
07:04:39 <kmc> there's a kid getting beheaded on slide 9 D:
07:05:41 <Bike> yeah there's warnings
07:06:01 <Bike> i probably shouldn't be in a position to compare and contrast that with the heart-eater video, but here i am
07:12:10 <kmc> trebuchets and heart eating
07:12:20 <kmc> old forms of warfare never fully die out do they
07:12:30 <kmc> see also iran & iraq bringing back trenches and poison gas in the 80s
07:12:46 <Bike> it was actually a liver, iirc, they just marketed it as a heart
07:12:53 <Bike> eating livers just doesn't shock the people any more
07:13:10 <kmc> jeez if you can't trust the guy eating human organs who can you trust anymore
07:13:10 <Bike> alt. jihadists aren't good at anatomy
07:13:25 <Bike> i, personally, once mistook a bird's testicles for its lungs
07:13:32 <kmc> eating carnivore livers is supposed to be pretty bad for you
07:13:41 <kmc> i don't know if humans eat enough meat for that to be an issue
07:13:45 <Bike> he just sort of nibbled it, really.
07:13:57 <Bike> i'm uh, probably shouldn't go into /too/ much detail here huh
07:13:59 <kmc> Bike: https://twitter.com/miuaf/status/416802172295053312
07:14:23 <douglass_> humans are omnivores. i'd expect human liver to be (pathogen risk aside) much much safer than polar bear liver.
07:15:14 <Bike> kmc: there are some advantages to living down the street from a butcher
07:15:29 <kmc> i think there are three or four specialty meat shops near me
07:16:05 <kmc> as well as places like Low Cost Carnicería
07:16:08 <kmc> or was it Lo Cost?
07:16:46 <kmc> oh it's Low Cost Carnicería not to be confused with Lo-Cost Meat Market
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07:24:00 <douglass_> Locust is no longer a popular meat.
07:24:34 <douglass_> Also locusts, technically, are not reliably available, as they are only the swarming phase of the insect's life cycle.
07:24:52 <douglass_> The non-swarming phase is an inoffensive grasshopper or crickety thing that looks totally different.
07:25:03 <Bike> oh! someone actually knows that! i love you.
07:25:18 <Bike> they're pretty easy to find in, like, madagascar though >_>
07:25:23 <douglass_> There are some locust species that may or may not be extinct, and we don't know because maybe they just haven't swarmed in the past hundred years.
07:25:48 <douglass_> (read about one in the Great Plains or maybe CO, forget the details)
07:25:48 <ion> I hacked Minecraft Overviewer to render from the center outwards instead of from the top left corner. An interrupted render that demonstrates it: http://heh.fi/tmp/minecraft-test/#/74/64/-184/-6/0/0
07:26:04 <Bike> yeah, it was somewhere in the western US
07:26:14 <shachaf> kmc: did you read The Locusts by Niven and Barnes
07:26:19 <shachaf> that was a p. strange short story
07:26:21 <Bike> kind of reminded me of the lilac-smelling worms around here that we thought were extinct for fifty years
07:27:51 <douglass_> WP says "Prior to its rediscovery in 2010, the worm was believed to give off a scent similar to that of the lily flower when handled[2] and that it was able to spit in self-defense;[3] however, the specimens captured did not exhibit these capabilities.[5]"
07:28:07 <Bike> lily, lilac, w/e >_>
07:31:51 <douglass_> I should try cricket sometime though.
07:32:23 <douglass_> Usually when I try some weird thing that I've been pondering and avoiding for years it turns out pretty good. Like corn smut.
07:33:24 <Bike> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/16288 this is what almost any talk about neural networks looks like
07:41:40 * kmc looks up programming languages on Urban Dictionary
07:43:34 <kmc> "Praising Java for fitting on many platforms is like praising anal sex for fitting both sexes." see,
07:43:41 <kmc> these both seem like reasonable points to me.
07:49:05 <Bike> better replace that definition with a fictional sex position
07:49:37 <kmc> one involving coffee
07:50:19 <kmc> i,i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_enema
07:50:20 <Bike> i wonder if there's a good joke to be made about coffee, duality, and sex work
07:50:36 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ineffective_cancer_treatments
07:51:48 <Bike> hm, i think 'coffee' 'enema' may be even higher on my 'why are these juxtaposed' list than 'decerebrate cat' 'anal sphincter'
07:52:49 <Bike> "a popular medical system devised by Ryke Geerd Hamer (1935 – ), in which all disease is seen as deriving from emotional shock, and mainstream medicine is regarded as a conspiracy promulgated by Jews"
07:53:26 <Bike> it's cool how on their faces it's hard to negatively compare these to 'tiny invisible animals are in your gut'
07:55:00 <kmc> tiny invisible jews
07:55:57 <Bike> plot of my steampunk time travel novel
07:57:08 <Bike> "an alternative medicine regime promoted by Hulda Regehr Clark (1928–2009), who (before her death from cancer) claimed it could cure many human diseases, including cancer" this is just sad.
08:00:59 <zzo38> Then she was probably wrong, if it didn't work for her.
08:11:33 <fizzie> I wasn't supposed to say that.
08:12:17 <kmc> also hizzie
08:12:34 <fizzie> The IRC input line is just too convenient for ephemeral notes.
08:13:43 <fizzie> Also uh kellmc no that does not work
08:14:01 <Bike> in the middle? innovative.
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08:26:48 <kmc> goin' to sleep
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09:02:22 <oerjan> <Bike> i thought "there is more to life than this" was from shakespeare or something but it turns out to be the name of a self-help book by a spirit talker, so, nevermind <-- i see no contradiction between the two substatements. although admittedly shakespeare does not seem to turn up in several pages of the google hits. (björk does.)
09:03:00 <oerjan> @tell bike <Bike> i thought "there is more to life than this" was from shakespeare or something but it turns out to be the name of a self-help book by a spirit talker, so, nevermind <-- i see no contradiction between the two substatements. although admittedly shakespeare does not seem to turn up in several pages of the google hits. (björk does.)
09:04:33 <oerjan> @tell bike trying to add shakespeare just gives the "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." quote
09:07:20 <oerjan> @tell quintopia <quintopia> Tubasteuerkarte <-- i have a hunch "Karte" is the wrong kind of board here.
09:10:57 <oerjan> @tell quintopia Anyway a little experimentation in google translate finds the _clearly_ proper term: Tubaüberwachungsausschuß
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09:13:05 <oerjan> @tell quintopia supposedly s/ß/ss/ nowadays, but we're talking the third Reich here.
09:13:57 <oerjan> @tell quintopia Sie ist seit der Reform von 1996 nicht mehr korrekt. ;_;
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10:04:19 <mroman> ß replaces ss when preceeded by a long vowel.
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11:42:51 <ais523> I had a great idea recently
11:43:14 <ais523> you know how git produces long, meaningless hashes to name commits, which is much more complex than just using revision numbers?
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11:43:31 <ais523> and how it typically expresses them as abbreviated hashes, that only contain the first seven nybbles?
11:44:07 <ais523> clearly, we need a rebase-like command that renumbers all the commits to have abbreviated hashes starting 0000001, 0000002, 0000003, etc. in order
11:44:23 <ais523> the range of 7 nybbles is approximately 0 to 250 million
11:44:32 <ais523> which is probably in the range of what a modern computer can bruteforce
11:44:38 <ion> Who’s the authority on revision numbers in a distributed setting?
11:44:57 <ais523> you just renumber it whenever you feel like it
11:45:12 <ais523> so everyone can be their own authority
11:45:43 <ais523> so long as you do your changes via changing metadata, git's duplicated-tree detector will remove most of the bad effects of the changes in hashes
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11:47:07 <ais523> anyway this is a terrible idea
11:47:17 <ais523> I just wanted to bring it up because this is a good channel to air terrible ideas in
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11:54:30 <oerjan> ideas great and terrible, check
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12:41:09 <fungot> olsner: or just eat veggies which takes more planning
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12:42:54 <ais523> that sentence almost looked sensible until I tried to read it
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12:46:32 <olsner> yes, I think it should be "take more planning", since veggies is plural
12:47:00 <olsner> grammar, fungot... grammar and s:es
12:47:00 <fungot> olsner: tu mama esta fnord en fnord fnord ollenkaan, ko mie fnord mennä fnord. fnord
12:47:56 <oklopol> or the which could refer to the eating of vegetables?
12:48:32 <oklopol> ...or just eat your vegetables, which, admittedly, takes more planning.
12:49:55 <ais523> actually eating vegetables takes a surprising amount of planning right now
12:50:11 <ais523> because they don't store very long and the supermarkets seem low on stock post-Christmas
12:50:26 <oklopol> i'm sure that's what fungot meant
12:50:26 <fungot> oklopol: have you ever been to europe? what kind? what's it supposed to run for food... will show code after the if statement
12:51:13 <oklopol> yes i actually just visited my home 0 moments ago. (and france last week.)
12:51:59 <ais523> oh dear, fungot brought back bad memories of being unable to find food I could eat in France
12:51:59 <fungot> ais523: eval ( !-inf)) will just put the traveling ip to sleep
12:52:22 <ais523> !c printf("%d\n", !-(1.0/0.0));
12:52:43 <ais523> oklopol: because I have some dietary restrictions and pretty much everything in the supermarket either violated them, or needed some sort of utensil to prepare
12:52:45 <oklopol> i guess you are a veggieist, given your three last messages except the last
12:52:47 <ais523> which weren't available in my hotel room
12:53:03 <ais523> I'm not actually vegetarian, but I have a similarly restrictive diet
12:53:43 <oklopol> because of luls, religion or physiology?
12:53:49 <ais523> when I was younger, I basically had to eat generic food paste until they figured out what I could eat or not
12:54:15 <ais523> (btw, the doctor said something along the lines of "you can tell if someone needs that stuff by whether they can tolerate eating it")
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12:55:50 <ais523> although perhaps sensibly, they started testing cereals first, having rice and oats to fall back on helps a lot (also wheat and potatoes are almost perfectly OK too)
12:56:49 <olsner> in sweden you can find pickled potatoes that are ready to eat
12:56:52 <ais523> actually most things turned out to be OK
12:57:01 <ais523> and even more are OK in small quantities
12:57:06 <ais523> so it doesn't take much concentration nowadays
12:57:37 <ais523> the most commonly occurring problem is with milk/cheese (milk is OK in small quantities, especially if cooked, but causes trouble if there are a lot; cheese is worse)
12:57:50 <ais523> actually I had to stop eating the croissants after a while because they were made with too much butter
12:59:56 <Taneb> My uncle as a gluten not-allergy-but-kind-of-like-an-allergy-we-have-no-idea-what-it-actually-is
13:02:20 <Taneb> That's kind of relevant
13:02:24 <olsner> the normal gluten "allergy" is just intolerance, iirc
13:02:35 <Taneb> olsner, his is actually a mystery
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13:02:52 <ais523> olsner: I have intolerances, rather than allergies
13:02:54 <olsner> I thought they were all mysterious, but there may be several different kinds anyway
13:03:18 <ais523> the difference being a) it's much more quantity-dependent than with allergies; b) it's less likely to be life-threatening if you screw up
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13:12:03 <oklopol> i only ate kebab in france
13:13:03 <ais523> there's an umlaut on that in French/Finnish?
13:13:17 <oklopol> in finnish it's called kebab
13:13:32 <oklopol> and i know there's an umlaut in germany where that word is used
13:13:42 <oklopol> there is no "döner" in finland
13:13:44 <Taneb> When someone says "kebab" to me I still think shish kebab
13:13:50 <oklopol> in france i think it was called kebab
13:13:51 <Taneb> Because we sometimes make them at home
13:14:02 <oklopol> but americans mean something else by that
13:14:56 <oklopol> i don't know what it's called in america but maybe doner then? uk i have no idea about
13:15:13 <oklopol> (i don't even know if they have that in the us)
13:15:44 <oklopol> and in finland i haven't seen shish kebab anywhere
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13:16:39 <ais523> oklopol: we have both doner and shish in the UK, but no accents
13:16:48 <ais523> I don't eat kebabs so I have no idea what the difference is, if any
13:17:01 <Taneb> I think most people think of doner first
13:17:48 <oklopol> afaik shish kebab is meat on a stick, and doner is meat between two loaves of bread (so in some sense in the hamburger family, although looks and tastes very different)
13:18:22 <Taneb> I think it has to be fried to be a kebab?
13:18:23 <olsner> I think doner refers to the spinning blob of meat that the kebab is cut from
13:18:44 <oklopol> Taneb: i have had discussions with americans about kebab and they never work very well
13:18:53 <olsner> (it comes from the turkish word for spinning, says wikipedia)
13:19:02 <oklopol> iirc kebab means something like cow?
13:20:53 <oklopol> In American English, kebab with no qualification refers to shish kebab (Turkish: şiş kebap) cooked on a skewer,[1] whereas in Europe it refers to doner kebab, sliced meat served in a pita.
13:22:31 <oklopol> k probably not, but i seem to recall something meant something funny or surprising in some language.
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13:22:50 <oklopol> According to Sevan Nişanyan, an etymologist of Turkish language, kebab is derived from the Arabic word "kabab" meaning "fry".
13:23:34 * oklopol finally decided to read the next sentence
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14:07:25 <Taneb> kmc, is there anything like scanf in Rust?
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14:13:36 <lifthrasiir> Taneb, I'm not kmc but I know there is no such thing, I needed to write my own scanner routine myself
14:14:35 <boily> good lifthrasiir-is-alive morning!
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15:47:08 <boily> Bike: good investment opportunity! /r/dogecoin is the subreddit of the day!
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16:10:23 <FreeFull> I think I'll make altgr+g into dead greek
16:10:38 <FreeFull> Since I can't find a greek shift or greek lock
16:11:52 <boily> Taneb: I think you need something more forceful than a poke in order to grab his attention.
16:11:56 * boily lends his mapole to Taneb
16:12:13 <Taneb> kmc, poke with a maypole
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16:15:36 * boily lends Taneb a depleted-oak warhead mapole
16:16:08 <Taneb> kmc, poke with a depleted-oak warhead maypole
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16:19:09 <FireFly> FreeFull: what are you messing with+
16:19:29 <kmc> "There's also the issue that it's hard to carry a dead deer on a bicycle." -- douglass_
16:20:23 <Taneb> kmc, I want to try and read two ints separated with a space from stdin. How do I go about that in Rust?
16:20:31 <boily> lambdabot answers to “v”?
16:20:56 <kmc> i... don't do much IO
16:21:07 <kmc> ask irc.mozilla.org #rust
16:21:40 <kmc> I literally understand how to make HTTP requests and draw with OpenGL but not how to read two ints
16:24:28 <Taneb> Aaah I am not used to having a bouncer
16:24:40 <Taneb> I have no idea how to connect to a new server through my bouncer
16:37:37 <FreeFull> FireFly: I want to be able to write greek characters
16:40:04 <FireFly> FreeFull: with xkb you can abuse having a second Group and use ISO_Group_Latch to shift between them
16:40:18 <FireFly> that's what I do: https://bitbucket.org/firefly/dotfiles/src/tip/xkb/firefly.symbols?at=default
16:42:29 <FreeFull> That could work too, but is more work than making altgr+g be dead_greek
16:42:41 <FreeFull> And I probably won't be needing to write more than one greek symbol at once
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16:49:02 <boily> FireFly: woah. that is some intense keyboarding you got there! how do you compile and use it?
16:51:35 <FireFly> I just have /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/firefly symlink'd to it and configure my layout as 'firefly'
16:53:29 <FireFly> i.e. in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf I have 'Option "XkbLayout" "firefly"'
16:56:01 <boily> I shamelessly set my keyboard layout in .xinitrc >_>'...
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16:58:55 <boily> (oh. it isn't C. it's a special format. no compilation necessary.)
17:00:03 <FireFly> It's a poorly-documented special format
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17:00:16 <FireFly> http://www.charvolant.org/~doug/xkb/html/xkb.html is basically what I've found on it
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17:02:04 <boily> and I suppose that the first xkb_symbols block declared in the file is the one you get by entering “setxkbmap <filename>”, and that you get the other blocks with “setxkbmap <filename> -variant <blockname>”.
17:02:34 <boily> (or, maybe “default partial” means something. you never know.)
17:14:50 <FireFly> partial means that it's not defining a full layout, but only part of one (like, only the numpad area or only the letter keys or something)
17:15:03 <FireFly> I can't remember if default was honoured or if it always took the first oe
17:46:43 <fizzie> "make altgr+g into dead greek" very philosophical.
17:46:54 <fizzie> (The joke is there are lots of dead Greek philosophers.)
17:49:33 <boily> `learn αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo!
17:49:53 <boily> now, let's see if I can latexify it...
17:50:00 <fizzie> Taneb: Which kind of a bounc-o-matic you chose?
17:54:56 <fizzie> Also I just came from the 60-year birthday party of my wife's father, and there was a (quasi-)Famous Band there, it was kind of surprising. People were surprised. (Not, like, famous famous, just sort of middlingly famous, I guess. The "50k twitter followers" kind of famous.)
17:56:23 <fizzie> (I guess that's how it's measured these days.)
17:59:48 <mroman> Why would someone design an application, that requires network connectivy to close it
18:00:07 <mroman> when you have to restart it, when it lost connectivity
18:10:03 <quintopia> boily: do you have a workplace overlooking the st. lawrence seaway
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18:12:59 <quintopia> @tell oerjan you don't have to use this to send me messages. i'm always in here and pings are recorded when i'm away. not that telling you this will stop you from annoying me with lambdabot messages.
18:14:12 <boily> quintopia: no. yes.
18:14:13 <fizzie> @tell quintopia Now you're just asking for it.
18:16:44 <boily> quintopia: here is a dadjoke while I try to remember a better one: He broke this one out when teaching me about tools. // "Okay, so this is the screwdriver, this is the wrenche, and this, well, you know the drill."
18:21:04 <boily> quintopia: here is a Canadian joke: Tim Horton, famous hockey player for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and founder of the wildly famous donut and coffee store; Tim Hortons. One day he was driving through the streets of St. Catharines Ontario extremly drunk. He went under the lake St. Overpass at around 150Kmh in his car and hit a support column. He and his car were obliterated. To this day, you can still find
18:21:06 <boily> Tim-Bits everywhere.
18:27:09 <boily> LinearInterpol: some day, I'll be a dad. when my kids will misbehave, I'll scold them with Bad Monad Tutorials.
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18:27:50 <FireFly> You should scold them by quoting fungot instead
18:27:51 <fungot> FireFly: also every time the named let so you can use !whatever, where the number of characters
18:28:13 <FireFly> fungot: that's not terribly threatening though
18:28:14 <fungot> FireFly: and how can the histogram of integer sizes have so many hits per page, if it is used for quite a while back,
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18:31:25 <boily> I can see myself saying “HOW CAN THE HISTOGRAM OF INTEGER SIZES HAVE SO MANY HITS PER PAGE!” in a stern voice. that'll surely teach them.
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18:34:40 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
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18:34:49 <fizzie> fungot: Can that sword alone stop boily's kids from misbehaving?
18:34:49 <fungot> fizzie: in the middle ages, sir slush!... you're gaspar, the guru of time! get moving! behold! the rainbow shell!
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18:35:30 <boily> fungot: please answer your Creator. it's the least of the courtesies.
18:35:30 <fungot> boily: these unique items make us invincible!
18:35:46 <fizzie> fungot: That's just a direct quote.
18:35:46 <fungot> fizzie: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! sorry, fellas! i'm empty! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat a monster that roams the inner earth, absorbing the land's power and growing ever stronger the resemblance...uncanny! you guys leaving!
18:37:07 <fizzie> "hope it still leaves you hungry!" what a nice sentiment.
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18:45:21 <shachaf> fungot: can fizzie live on bread alone?
18:45:22 <fungot> shachaf: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! go!! what about me. they just might be the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
18:45:34 <shachaf> wow boring say something new
18:45:45 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
18:45:57 <fungot> Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg)
18:46:25 <fizzie> There's not that much data in the ct style.
18:46:29 <shachaf> fungot: let's play the speech recognition game
18:46:30 <fungot> shachaf: when i appeared before a committee of twenty-one members should be given to the lecture platform and tell all about it.
18:47:07 <fizzie> fungot: I AM TALKING VERY SLOWLY AND CLEARLY CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ME
18:47:08 <fungot> fizzie: it suggests melancholy reflections, in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from the exercise of that profession is, that he remained through his whole career will not be adequately remunerated if he is to answer on the part of the subject? he is, wrote only one letter to the clergy?"
18:47:26 <shachaf> no fizzie you have to recognize fungot's speeches
18:47:26 <fungot> shachaf: ii. to constituents. ( arbroath, october 21, 1907)
18:48:09 <fizzie> Well, I think that last one was that one from Arbroath, October 21, 1907.
18:48:27 <fizzie> I don't remember what went into "speeches".
18:50:18 <boily> don't you have the raw files laying around?
18:51:24 <boily> or lieing. I can't remember for the fungot of me what is the correct verb.
18:51:25 <fungot> boily: from a letter to wm. h. rogers by the business men of norfolk, fnord. power, etc.
18:51:45 <boily> fnord. power. ayn rand. fungot. rogers.
18:51:46 <fungot> boily: " still as you rise, the state of missouri. i have not received more than i deserve, is this a sort of fnord, brought into the house of commons
18:51:57 <FireFly> The around-laying is a lie
18:52:26 <FireFly> fungot: fnord, in the house of commons?!
18:52:26 <fungot> FireFly: but in the place of your retiring president. i shall be surprised to hear the judge, as i have told you what he knows. we have regulated that which we should be affected with anything, he must go a hundred and fifty years ago all roads in new england who still continued to face the facts.
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19:29:29 <lambdabot> quintopia said 1h 16m 30s ago: you don't have to use this to send me messages. i'm always in here and pings are recorded when i'm away. not that telling you this will stop you from annoying me with lambdabot messages.
19:29:55 <oerjan> quintopia: depends on if i can remember it.
19:33:15 <oerjan> quintopia: i don't trust people in general to check whether they've had pings.
19:34:27 <oerjan> quintopia: also i have a bit of ocp?d about information getting lost.
19:40:18 <metasepia> ocd definition: obsessive-compulsive disorder.
19:42:32 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomo
19:46:43 <oerjan> <Taneb> kmc, poke with a depleted-oak warhead maypole <-- * oerjan smells an evil autocorrect
19:50:56 * boily imagines a fantasy battlescape, where the Chimæric Words struggle against the Evil Autocorrectians
19:51:22 <Bike> oerjan: horatio is what i was thinking of anyway
20:00:27 <HackEgo> [U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+002B PLUS SIGN]
20:00:43 <kmc> http://lolmythesis.com/
20:00:47 <oerjan> somehow they looked different in my browser.
20:01:33 <Bike> "Built software development tools for an alternate reality that forked off in 1980." hey, it's sgeo
20:02:11 <Bike> kind of wish they'd link the actual paper but i guess that fucks with anonymity and also noone reads theses
20:02:20 <boily> do you guys think we can spot fizzie's thesis in there?
20:02:37 <Bike> "Rats like cocaine", i bet
20:03:06 <boily> fizzie: what are you working on, again?
20:03:25 <kmc> Bike: also all PL research
20:04:01 <kmc> "Anselm’s ontological proof for God’s existence completely fails because he literally didn’t understand basic grammar."
20:05:10 <zzo38> Grammar is the problem?
20:05:12 <boily> “Lasers make really pretty shit when you pass them through funky glass. Also, chemistry makes pretty colors.” ← sounds a lot like my bro's internship.
20:06:34 <Bike> "You can’t understand what hillly cities look like in two dimensions.
20:07:22 <kmc> Taneb: oh I think I forgot to respond to your poke, what was it?
20:07:50 <boily> oooooh! one from Université du Québec à Montréal! “Money is a much more complicated thing than you think it is and the modern financial system is in the process of screwing it real good.”
20:07:54 <Bike> "Brain cells are really cool. Zebrafish. People have schizophrenia. Count ALL THE THINGS. Cell death. Fish death. STERILE! Significance. Yeah." see now we're talking
20:08:34 <Bike> "Also, 10 nanometers sounds really big now"
20:11:06 <boily> I like the one about tricky meditation. I think I can pull that one off in our next RPG campaign. :D
20:12:54 <zzo38> Tricky meditation?
20:13:17 <boily> zzo38: “If you want to trick someone into meditating, all you have to do is turn the lights completely off, suspend their body, and get them to DJ ambient sounds using their breath.”
20:14:02 <zzo38> boily: Would they need to know DJ?
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20:14:29 <Bike> "we should all spend ages investigating a phenomenon in a non ecologically valid manner and then conclude that we found out nothing about it" there's a half-decent chance i know who submitted this one...
20:15:12 <boily> zzo38: minor detail. I'll wing it over either a fortitude or a nature check. yeah. probably going to go with the nature check.
20:15:15 <fizzie> boily: Reech specognition.
20:16:19 <boily> fizzie: that one sounds like a mahjong declaration...
20:16:59 <boily> zzo38: as long as I entertain the GM, and can write something nonsensical in the Journals, it'll slide like a hot knife in a pound of yak butter.
20:17:08 <fizzie> boily: And I lost a couple of them datasets that went into fungot accidentally. Some I still have.
20:17:08 <fungot> fizzie: orestes, the greek highwayman. the crimes were not all the safeguards of liberty known in civilized and humane jurisprudence to be introduced, so that before i got started. it takes a genius in compression to compact as many facts as that.
20:18:13 <boily> fungot: very misfortune. such disgrace.
20:18:13 <fungot> boily: caesar lifted his head at the salutation. his air of deep abstraction fnord and he found one which united all that was stately and venerable in the antique manners, without fnord is of immemorial antiquity among us. it does not break down or derange the scheme of bringing our court to a resemblance to the neighbouring monarchies, it was not in the inns of court and in the unfettered exercise of their own mother tongue, t
20:18:32 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches* ss wp youtube
20:18:36 <fungot> Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
20:19:22 <oerjan> <boily> or lieing. I can't remember for the fungot of me what is the correct verb. <-- i suspect "lying" hth
20:19:22 <fungot> oerjan: probably nothing like what you may have been due to these flaws i will not implement fnord do not fnord on this
20:19:50 <zzo38> boily: Write something nonsensical in the Journals?
20:19:53 <fizzie> "i will not implement fnord do not fnord on this" is a good motto to live by.
20:20:52 <boily> zzo38: I'm the Secretary of Our Campaigns, writing down everything Stupid we do, in a... uhm... deconstructed manner.
20:20:56 <oerjan> fnord not lest you be fnorded
20:22:25 <zzo38> boily: O, OK. Well, in the D&D game I am in, I type everything, even if it isn't stupid.
20:23:08 <zzo38> (I also record the character sheets)
20:23:51 <zzo38> But I try to be sufficiently accurate so if I made some mistake anyone can notice, I should fix it.
20:24:28 <shachaf> What if only one person can notice it?
20:25:05 <zzo38> shachaf: It doesn't matter as long as they can tell me about it.
20:25:16 <boily> zzo38: I think I sent you some character sheets some time ago, didn't I?
20:25:16 <boily> then it's not a mistake.
20:25:35 <boily> (also, 2 minute lag. interesting effect in the logs...)
20:26:15 <zzo38> boily: I think you may have done, but I didn't keep the copy.
20:27:19 <zzo38> Do you keep on computer and print it out, or synchronize the copy in the computer with the paper like I did instead?
20:27:52 <boily> eeeeeeh... my GM and/or another player does that.
20:29:05 <zzo38> However, I need to fix the macro file so that it will split the spell levels into multiple rows if necessary, which it is.
20:38:56 <zzo38> Now I realized I also failed to mention how many 5th-level slots I have.
20:54:36 <Sgeo> "Too much weather to explain in just nine words--maybe in twelve--nope, not even in seventeen."
20:54:57 <Sgeo> I think the only segment of The Onion that I really dislike are the audio reports
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20:59:50 <oerjan> someone badly needs our help http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20817113/how-to-read-character-in-whitespace-language
21:01:49 <boily> haskell compiler 5.02???
21:01:58 <oerjan> one might guess that stackoverflow doesn't handle tabs well.
21:02:33 <zzo38> I improved the page layout for the character sheets now.
21:03:03 <mauke> is there a better haskell implementation now?
21:03:19 <mauke> when I looked at the whitespace interpreter, it used lists for *everything*
21:03:23 <oerjan> boily: well it's the one the implementation is mentioned to work with...
21:03:37 <boily> oerjan: yes, but... GHC 7.6?
21:03:47 <mauke> dynamic memory? list.
21:04:09 <mauke> and it used integer indices for everything, so just stepping through the opcodes was O(n²)
21:04:19 <oerjan> boily: with the way ghc has changed the current ghc might very well not compile whitespace. not that i've tested.
21:04:58 <boily> oerjan: oh. as in, directly compiling whitespace with no haskell intermediary?
21:05:29 <oerjan> mauke: i do not suspect efficiency was a major consideration.
21:05:43 <mauke> yes, but the code really was stupidly slow
21:06:05 <mauke> it made solving spoj.pl exercises in whitespace close to impossible
21:07:31 <oerjan> mauke: ok lists and indexing is of course stupid.
21:09:02 <mauke> so anyway, I wrote an assembler/disassembler and a (still stupid but hella) faster interpreter
21:10:42 <oerjan> so we can add it to esolang.
21:11:27 <boily> mauke: did someone `relcome you yet?
21:11:41 <mauke> boily: probably. was that the one with colors?
21:12:42 <oerjan> hm wikipedia has a nice github link
21:12:56 <boily> mauke: if you identify `relcomming with colours, then yes.
21:13:11 <mauke> http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/whitespace/ but that's not a permanent link
21:14:42 <oerjan> mauke: is yours in the github collection? i added that instead.
21:15:13 <mauke> what github collection?
21:15:20 <kmc> i'm getting too good at this social media thing
21:15:23 <oerjan> https://github.com/hostilefork/whitespacers/
21:15:25 <kmc> can't trust my opinions if they're too popular
21:16:31 <mauke> oerjan: no, it's not in there
21:16:32 <oerjan> <boily> oerjan: oh. as in, directly compiling whitespace with no haskell intermediary? <-- no, as in compiling the whitespace interpreter
21:18:00 <boily> beuh. I am disappoint.
21:18:28 <boily> kmc: how would you rate your own trustiness on the Fungot-Ørjan scale?
21:18:32 <oerjan> it's from 2003 and seems to be plain haskell 98.
21:18:58 <oerjan> wait, i'm on the opposite side of fungot?
21:18:58 <fungot> oerjan: though i admit it's not exactly quoted, but very important, i've just been trying to find
21:19:18 <mauke> fungot: have you heard of a man called markov?
21:19:19 <fungot> mauke: telnet irc.freenode.net 6667 -c unlambda blah blah blah
21:20:11 <boily> mauke: fungot is kinda the mascot of the channel.
21:20:11 <fungot> boily: i suggest c and/ or
21:20:22 <boily> mauke: also c, according to it.
21:21:23 <oerjan> fungot: i am not convinced that telnet command works.
21:21:23 <fungot> oerjan: context fnord input); fnord fnord dove fog.
21:21:48 <mauke> fungot: print STDOUT q / Just another Perl hacker, / unless $spring
21:22:37 <kmc> fungot: do you see the fnords?
21:22:37 <fungot> kmc: i'm not voicing a concern, i wouldn't try to psychoanalyze you all the answers!
21:24:04 <boily> mauke: as you can see, the bot is strangely sentient.
21:25:34 <kmc> fungot: thanks, I hate it when people do that
21:25:34 <fungot> kmc: fnord not mainstream programs? :) i use the precise gc do better? i want to
21:27:40 <oerjan> that store function is something to behold.
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21:48:16 <Vorpal> Hm, fizzie you there? You have some ffmpeg-fu right?
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21:49:25 <fizzie> I've done some things with it, but maybe "-fu" is overstating things.
21:49:47 <Vorpal> I basically have a single large music file (mp3) and a list of timecodes and want to split the file at those time codes.
21:50:03 <Vorpal> Also I have Debian so not really real ffmepg
21:50:12 <Vorpal> but avcode or whatever it is called
21:50:32 <fizzie> "avconv", and I'm not entirely sure you can convince avconv to do it losslessly.
21:50:42 <Vorpal> Could you do it with ffmpeg?
21:50:53 <Vorpal> I could build the real deal if that is required
21:51:20 <fizzie> They don't really differ all that much. And it's possible it's smart enough to do it, I'm just not quite sure.
21:53:41 <fizzie> It would be something like avconv -ss 123 -t 42 -i input.mp3 -codec copy output.mp3 to take a snippet of 42 seconds starting at 123 seconds in.
21:53:51 <Vorpal> Oh yeah I forgot, I built ffmpeg into ~/local/ffmpeg some time ago
21:53:56 <Vorpal> So I do have the real deal
21:54:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, Ah, so time to write a program to compute a time code like 1:20:23:41 Start of this section\n1:21:... and turn it into that
21:55:06 <fizzie> Both arguments can take 1:2:3.4 hour:minute:second.fraction formats.
21:55:20 <fizzie> (But you would still need to compute the duration between two timestamps.)
21:55:28 <Vorpal> So still needs a script
21:55:58 <Vorpal> Also I had terrible experience with -codec copy in the past not doing what I want
21:56:21 <fizzie> sox can extract something given absolute start and end positions, if I recall correctly, but I'm reasonably sure sox especially won't do it without re-encoding.
21:57:17 <Vorpal> By the way, after I fixed my glx kernel module (it wasn't compiled for the current kernel!), flash video in full screen no longer works
21:57:47 <Vorpal> So whatever fall back driver X uses when fglrx isn't loaded, works with flash
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21:58:14 <fizzie> Hrm. I tested the line above on a random mp3, and it seems to have done the start seek properly but not the duration limit.
21:58:50 <fizzie> Ah, command line argument order strikes again.
21:59:06 <fizzie> You need avconv -ss 123 -i input.mp3 -t 42 -codec copy out.mp3 instead.
21:59:08 <Vorpal> I hate utilities like that
21:59:19 <fizzie> Because the duration limit is an "output" kind of an argument.
21:59:22 <Vorpal> That makes little sense
21:59:34 <fizzie> And whatever you specify before an -i option is specific for that input, or some-such.
22:00:05 <fizzie> Even better: the -ss can go both before or after the -i and will do a subtly different thing. :p
22:00:20 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm would this work on an mp4 from youtube as well, I need that too, not sure what audio codec thoses uses (nor any idea how to find out)
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22:01:20 <fizzie> I think the formats that go in an MP4 container are all AAC on the audio.
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22:04:48 <Vorpal> $ ~/local/ffmpeg/bin/ffmpeg
22:04:49 <Vorpal> WARNING: gnome-keyring:: couldn't connect to: /home/arvid/.cache/keyring-z7nSMy/pkcs11: No such file or directory
22:04:59 <Vorpal> Is it trying to do gnome keyring!?
22:06:58 <mauke> `run echo $'LET "1:20:23.41 Start of this section\\n1:21:34.56 etc" ~ "{d!+}:{d!+}:{d!+.!d!+}.+{d!+}:{d!+}:{d!+.!d!+}"\n\\0+(60*(\\1+60*\\2))-\\3-(60*(\\4+60*\\5))_"' | ploki
22:07:43 <fizzie> I don't know how good time-domain accuracy you'll get out of it with -codec copy, since (AIUI) MP3 hasn't really been designed for extracting individual frames; there's some inter-frame dependencies. (If I ever knew the details, I've forgotten them.)
22:08:02 <mauke> ploki is love, ploki is life
22:08:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, what about aac?
22:08:20 <Vorpal> mauke, Something more useful?
22:08:28 <fizzie> (I got a file 10.3 seconds long with -t 10.)
22:08:36 <mauke> Vorpal: it's a programming language
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22:08:56 <Vorpal> It looks of the unreadable sort from that
22:09:00 <mauke> what are my options?
22:09:41 <Vorpal> functional/imperative, oop/not-oop and so on
22:09:43 <elliott> Vorpal: ffmpeg and avconv are unlikely to have major functionality differences afaik
22:09:54 <elliott> or rather they probably both have some things the other doesn't have at any given time?
22:10:01 <Vorpal> elliott, ah okay, then what was the bloody point of the fork?
22:10:15 <elliott> open source development politics
22:10:26 <elliott> I think ffmpeg pulls in like half the libav commits unchanged nowadays or something
22:10:39 <elliott> I think libav has the more momentum if only because Debian etc. use it
22:10:48 <elliott> I don't think it's so much the other way around, but I don't know that much
22:10:51 <elliott> I just read a blog post about it
22:11:01 <Vorpal> All this over indentation and braces? ;)
22:11:27 <Vorpal> Anyway I don't really care what the conflict is about
22:12:41 <fizzie> Vorpal: Got 10.9 seconds with "-t 10" for extracting some AAC audio from a youtube-dl .mp4 file.
22:13:15 <Vorpal> So okay, I can just forget non-lossy then
22:14:33 <fizzie> If you want exact time resolution. At the very least, it's going to have to be rounded at the frame boundaries of the audio codec.
22:14:47 <fizzie> (Kind of like you need to speak in 8x8 blocks for lossless JPEG operations.)
22:17:26 <HackEgo> [U+0113 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH MACRON]
22:18:02 <HackEgo> [U+03C9 GREEK SMALL LETTER OMEGA] [U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS]
22:18:39 <fizzie> LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH MACARONI AND CHEESE
22:20:03 <fizzie> (Going to sleep, I think; been a long day.)
22:22:52 * oerjan imagines fizzie dreaming about chasing edible symbols
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22:39:56 <Vorpal> I really dislike the iterators of python
22:40:48 <quintopia> well it is obj oriented, so you can make your own! :P
22:41:04 <zzo38> Vorpal: How do they work, and how is it limited?
22:41:20 <Vorpal> There is no support for iterators that support going backwards and forwards. In C++ terms they would basically be input iterators I believe
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22:41:58 <Vorpal> For example, if I want to look at the next item in the iterator without removing it from the iterator (i.e. a peek function), can't do it
22:42:25 <Vorpal> quintopia, yes, but it won't integrate into the "for x in foo" syntax. I would have to do my own while loop over it
22:43:03 <Vorpal> In which case, why don't I just do a in_list = list(input_iter); for i in range(len(in_list)): or some such
22:43:27 <Vorpal> nucular, pretty sure that i wouldn't be able to access a peek function even if I added one in that case?
22:45:16 <nucular> It depends on how you implement your iterator
22:46:14 <Vorpal> Hm I guess I could create some wrapped object that forwarded most of the calls to the underlying object and then do "for e in my_collection: ... e.next()"
22:46:20 <Vorpal> Sounds annoying though
22:47:52 <nucular> I heard you can even subclass generator and set __iter__ to an instance of that subclass
22:48:22 <Vorpal> Oh that is a cool idea, but I think doing an range iterator is easier since this is a pretty short one-off script
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23:09:01 <Vorpal> What is a good python IDE? I just use IDLE mostly, but it is kind of bad at figuring out completion suggestions. Understandable giben the dynamic typing
23:10:00 <nucular> I really like the wxPython Py suite but I only use Sublime Text 2
23:11:25 <nucular> Vorpal: You can look at Editra, it's slightly based on the Py suite and also written in Python + wx
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23:13:42 <nucular> I used it for a long time before I found out about ST2
23:14:37 <nucular> Maybe because you should :P
23:16:05 <Vorpal> I heard sublime is good though
23:16:17 <Vorpal> A few people at work uses it
23:16:20 <nucular> It only randomly shows a message box at every tenth saving action if unregistered
23:16:25 <Vorpal> I mostly use emacs instead
23:16:49 <Vorpal> nucular, ouch, I tend to save quite often
23:17:29 <nucular> actually more like at every 20th but meh
23:19:38 <nucular> I almost never use an IDE, I just have the docs on another halve of the screen
23:20:01 <Vorpal> nucular, I like intelisense style completion, doesn't work very well for python though
23:20:59 <kmc> i don't use an IDE (which I take to include sufficiently fancy vim/emacs configs) but mostly out of laziness and inertia, not because I don't think they're valuable
23:24:25 <nucular> what does IntelliSense different again?
23:24:37 <kmc> the Agda emacs mode is awesome and if I had such a mode easily available for Haskell and Rust, I would love it
23:24:43 <kmc> enough to switch back to emacs, maybe
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23:39:10 <zzo38> Now I think that with the features in Black-C, it seems like it would be possible to use them to implement many features resembling those used in C++, such as templates, run-time type information, inheritance, Koenig lookup, etc. Do you think this is correct or did I miss something important that results in such implementations not working?
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23:41:40 <nucular> am I the only one only coming up with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBL_Posse when searching Black-C?
23:41:52 <Bike> it's zzo38's c proposal thing.
23:42:02 <kmc> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/black_c.txt
23:43:01 <zzo38> As well as some C99 stuff such as complex numbers could also be implemented using these features.
23:43:53 <zzo38> O, and namespaces, too.
23:45:10 <nucular> Actually I just came here to talk with ais523 about building a Snowflake interpreter
23:45:12 <zzo38> I have recently added the specification of "extern static" now; it is the only thing I added today, I think. Name mangling applies to things declared as "extern static", and in fact only to such things (other things are treated as normal C names).
23:49:03 <Vorpal> zzo38, why would you want to make C++!?
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23:49:28 <Vorpal> Implementing ADL and templates seem like terrible ideas given how much of a pain they cause in the C++ world
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23:50:02 <Vorpal> nucular, he seems to be missing atm
23:51:18 <zzo38> Vorpal: It isn't C++; I am simply saying that such things may be some of the things that can be implemented using the features I have described. If you don't like them, don't program them in!
23:51:20 <Vorpal> fizzie, my python script works fantastically!
23:52:02 <nucular> Good thing that I'm a D fan btw :P
23:52:25 <Vorpal> nucular, you and Deewiant?
23:52:34 <Vorpal> And I guess the D author anyway
23:52:46 <Vorpal> To be blunt, what I'm saying is that D hasn't really seemed to take off much
23:53:09 <kmc> zzo38: does your metaprogramming system give deep access to inspect & destructure types, the way C++ templates do (and pretty much nothing else does)?
23:54:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, ... hm, I don't know what avconv did though, the "duration" column in vlc is all messed up for these files...
23:54:13 <zzo38> kmc: I am not very well knowing how C++ does it.
23:54:24 <Vorpal> Maybe some sort of VBR and no included length info?
23:54:47 <zzo38> Vorpal: What is "ADL" anyways?
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23:56:19 <Vorpal> zzo38, Other name for Koenig lookup (I had to look up what "Koenig lookup" was, I only knew the name ADL - Argument Dependent Lookup)
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23:56:50 <zzo38> Vorpal: OK, I didn't know what the abbreviation stood for.
23:57:05 <nucular> sorry, my connection decided to suck for today
23:57:44 <zzo38> kmc: Can you give some example of its working?