2013-12-01: 00:00:04 oerjan: hey TNT is pretty safe 00:00:13 "TNT can be safely poured when liquid into shell cases, and is so insensitive that in 1910, it was exempted from the UK's Explosives Act 1875 and was not considered an explosive for the purposes of manufacture and storage." 00:00:20 "Its potential as an explosive was not appreciated for several years mainly because it was so difficult to detonate" 00:00:46 ooh 00:01:28 It's like safe nitroglycerine 00:01:46 i thought dynamite was safe nitroglycerine. 00:01:56 "Consumption of TNT produces red urine through the presence of breakdown products" 00:02:15 Can FlooP be compiled into TNT? 00:02:21 oerjan: What do you think dynamite is made out of? 00:02:30 FreeFull: nitroglycerine hth 00:02:45 (+ some stuff.) 00:02:53 i think the problem with dynamite is that it's rendered safe by physical mixing, and the nitroglycerin can settle out gradually and such 00:02:55 Oh, apparently dynamite isn't actually made from TNT 00:03:49 that's correct, it's a mixture of nitroglycerin and sawdust / diatomaceaous earth / clay / something like that 00:03:53 Dynamite is less safe than TNT 00:03:55 FreeFull: sheesh, aren't you swedish or something. or am i confusing you with FireFly again. 00:04:03 I'm not swedish 00:04:06 `? FreeFull 00:04:08 FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. 00:04:16 ok 00:04:23 then you're excused. 00:04:59 were you polish, or am i confusing you with ... 00:06:02 -!- Frankablu has joined. 00:06:12 -!- Frankablu has left ("Leaving"). 00:06:25 I am Polish 00:06:40 Is anyone else in here Polish? 00:06:56 `? fun fact 00:06:58 fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 00:07:04 so, are you a north pole or a south pole? 00:07:34 FreeFull: none of the two other polish sometime regulars i remember at the moment are here. 00:07:39 If they are both, would that make them bipolar? 00:07:58 oerjan: What are their names? 00:08:07 nooga and asiekierka 00:08:13 well, nicks. 00:08:17 Ah, right, asiekierka sometimes comes here 00:18:36 `danddreclist 45 00:18:37 danddreclist 45: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 00:29:56 `unicode INVISIBLE TIMES 00:29:58 ​⁢ 00:31:48 `run unicode 'LEFT SQUARE BRACKET' 'INVISIBLE TIMES' 'RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET' 00:31:49 ​[⁢] 00:33:11 `unicode MAY YOU LIVE IN INVISIBLE TIMES 00:33:12 Unknown character. 00:33:20 i'm sure that's in chinese somewhere 00:37:30 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:38:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:40:03 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:52:30 wtf 00:52:37 what would invisible times be for 00:53:15 Presumably it would be used with mathematics, I suppose; I don't know what programs would use it 00:53:48 why would you need something to represent times in a string that can't be seen though? 00:54:19 Maybe it is used as the input for some computer algebra systems? I don't know. 00:54:35 seems weird man 00:54:39 and i thought unicode love hotel was weird 00:54:41 this is weirder! 00:54:49 That, as well as a lot of things in Unicode, don't make much sense though. 00:55:07 it's okay because we have so much space right?! 00:55:41 No. Not with the way it is working. 00:56:32 `unicode LOVE HOTEL 00:56:34 Unknown character. 00:56:52 `unicode U+1F3E9 00:56:54 Unknown character. 00:57:33 `unicode isn't particularly flexible *> 01:11:34 eh invisible times kinda makes sense to me, although they could've called it just JUXTAPOSITION or something 01:16:08 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:17:32 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:20:15 well there's some halfassed attempt to be semantic, right? 01:20:56 juxtaposition doesn't always mean multiplication 01:23:32 there's also INVISIBLE PLUS 01:24:42 you put it inside 3¼ to indicate that it means 3.25 and not 3*¼ = 0.75 01:24:45 p. weird 01:25:27 trying to represent characters on a semantic basis would be adorable if it wasn't so stupid 01:32:56 god help me if dealing with invisible characters ever becomes a part of everyday text editing 01:33:17 `unicode INVISIBLE FNORD 01:33:18 Unknown character. 01:33:21 sure HackEgo 01:34:33 myndzi: Well, I don't have any such problems I deal with only ASCII so it isn't a problem. 01:38:30 kmc: what do i put in "-3¼", though 01:39:19 gotta have INVISIBLE MINUS 01:39:32 O_O 01:39:44 shachaf: I don't think so, you would just change the operator precedence for the invisible operators 01:39:48 hm maybe i should read The Illuminatus! Trilogy 01:39:55 s/maybe/definitely/ 01:40:06 maybe i should read it for the third time 01:40:55 that's a lot of times 01:42:22 anyway i read another book instead of that book 01:42:28 so maybe i can read that book now 01:42:35 which book did you read 01:43:31 "The Gone-Away World" 01:43:52 and also probably several other books since whenever it was you gave me that book to read 01:44:32 it's slightly too big to conveniently carry with me 01:45:01 Do you like this Dungeons&Dragons game session 45? I still am not quite sure that the prisoner really is disabled yet 01:45:13 zzo38: I haven't read it. 01:47:14 When do you intend to read it? 01:48:38 http://sharpwriter.deviantart.com/art/Bill-Clinton-the-Lady-Killer-357619589 01:48:50 zzo38: I wasn't intending to read it. 01:48:52 Should I? 02:02:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:05:19 shachaf: Probably you should, if you are interested in it. (Anyways, your name is on it so I thought you might be interested.) 02:05:42 That is, if it is the kinds of stories and things that interests you, I suppose. 02:35:59 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:37:43 -!- ter2 has joined. 02:40:04 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:57:21 -!- extwo has joined. 02:57:31 Hello 02:58:56 zzo38: On the list, you mean? 02:59:59 `WeLcOmE extwo 03:00:02 ExTwO: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: . (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 03:00:28 Thanks 03:02:49 -!- extwo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [SeaMonkey 2.22.1/20131113180422]). 03:03:33 shachaf: Yes 03:19:48 -!- muskrat has joined. 03:24:14 -!- ruddy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:45:49 -!- Bike has joined. 03:55:43 i have to say that fizzie has the right idea; i don't enjoy being a bus quite as much 03:56:15 Right idea of what? 03:57:01 `quote train 03:57:03 328) The system I kind of have in mind makes a flying train a natural consequence. \ 628) the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this. \ 761) . o O ( (watches on from a distance) I just can't think that abstractly... or I don't want to. I'm more, 03:57:10 well,one of those. 04:08:40 `quote am a train 04:08:41 820) I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 04:09:02 to be fair i did have a wireless network 04:15:20 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:15:26 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:16:32 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 04:19:36 So, there's a form element in HTML5 called 04:19:50 Guess which browser's makers said that they will never support it? 04:20:03 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:20:18 Mosaic 04:20:37 What does that form element mean? 04:21:07 It means create a public/private key pair+certificate, and send the certificate with the form when submitted (roughly, I think) 04:24:28 Going to read http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Sep/0043.html before yelling at IE 04:26:06 hmm 04:26:09 Bike: well, what if you were caltrain, though 04:26:53 i wasn't. i was an amtrak superliner. very nice train despite amtrak. 04:27:48 have i ever been on amtrak 04:27:51 possibly not 04:28:02 they're not great. my train was like an hour late. 04:28:30 I've been on Amtrak once (well, twice if you count the return trip separately) recently (August), and once (twice) as a little kid 04:28:48 That's as many as four times! 04:28:59 And that's terrible. 04:29:59 -!- yiyus has joined. 04:31:17 which routes? 04:31:49 i was on a north-south route in western oregon, don't remember names 04:35:36 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 04:37:16 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:39:42 how west are we talking 04:40:14 i'm actually not very aware of the existence of eastern oregon, come to think of it 04:40:25 or eastern washington, for that matter 04:40:28 or bicycles 04:40:44 out here it's mostly empty. 04:41:08 do you like empty 04:41:43 sometimes. 05:01:01 * oerjan think he was in eastern oregon once 05:01:04 *thinks 05:01:26 why 05:01:28 i vaguely remember some oregon trail museum 05:02:01 i was visiting remote relatives in idaho 05:03:00 that's p. remote 05:05:27 well like fourth cousins or thereabouts. 05:07:43 copumpkin: do chu spaces belong in categories 05:21:23 -!- tertu3 has joined. 05:23:55 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:05:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:12:15 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:14:10 can you play oregon trail at the oregon trail museum 06:14:14 are they sick of people asking that 06:16:07 Are you sick of asking that? 06:16:46 no 07:10:44 Earlier this week while I was waiting in someone's office I read a book I found on their shelf, about graph theory. 07:13:15 kmc: what do you think about ? 07:23:08 zzo38: Whose office? Which book? 07:23:43 Some office I had to wait in for something. I do not remember the title of the book. 07:49:43 Can someone walk me through how to do a github pull request 07:51:57 https://help.github.com/articles/using-pull-requests 07:52:04 thanks 08:19:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:23:26 so you can get command and conquer: red alert 2: yuri's revenge for free online these days and it works under wine 08:23:46 (multiplayer/skirmish-only) 08:25:49 command and conquer: red alert 2: yuri's revenge: slaves to armok: god of blood: chapter ii: dwarf fortress 08:27:12 that one 08:27:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:28:55 Recently had an occasion to read some of my own quotes while looking for something; can't stop chuckling at my own "joke". (Guess that says something.) 08:29:27 which joke 08:29:38 was it Recently had an occasion to read some of my own quotes while looking for something; can't stop chuckling at my own "joke". (Guess that says something.) 08:29:45 sent my first pull request!! only had to reset two passwords to do it 08:29:49 No, it was 08:29:52 `quote hobbitem 08:29:53 562) An 'ad hobbitem' fallacy is when you try to undermine someone's credibility by referring to how hairy his/her feets are. 09:30:06 -!- carado has joined. 09:36:17 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:45:58 Ok. I might have some new idea based on my old ideas 09:46:13 Initially there's 1 Storage Cell 09:46:31 but if you put a large value in it, that large value somehow expands Space 09:46:35 giving you more storage 09:46:52 but it also distorts surounding new cell 09:47:54 I.e if you put 8 in it, you get 5x5 cells of storage 09:52:35 http://codepad.org/LxT5wwU4 <- like that 09:54:01 * are active cells 09:54:13 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:54:14 And only active cells distort surrounding cells 10:08:41 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:24:27 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:26:21 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:55:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:57:28 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:10:39 HELP IM SLOWLY CHOKING ON A MARKS AND SPENCERS CHOCOLATE BROWNIE MIMI BITE 11:10:48 I DIDNT CHEW ENOUGH AND IT IS STICKY AND IN MY THROAT 11:16:31 There's a stupid bug I've got in Data.Group that nobody's noticed 11:16:43 Because a) nobody uses Data.Group 11:17:44 And b) there is only one type on Hackage it will happen for 11:18:42 (Dual (Endomorphism a)) 11:18:48 *k a 11:18:54 Where k is a groupoid 11:25:10 Phantom_Hoover, should I give up waiting and start a new fortress 11:28:50 Still choking? 11:28:57 (Just curious.) 11:31:47 No 11:31:53 I am better now 11:32:17 "I'm not quite dead yet" 11:36:17 Taneb, yes 11:36:33 Also! 11:36:35 i didn't anticipate losing interest in computering 11:36:39 Fixing the dual problem! 11:36:52 (ab)^-1 = (b^1 a^-1) 11:37:37 So... (Dual a)^n = Dual ((a^-n)^-1)? 11:43:08 is (ab)^-1 = (b^1 a^-1) a typo or a bug? 11:43:44 Typo 11:43:55 Should be b^-1 11:44:03 what's a dual 11:44:37 as I see it, a |-> a^-1 is a homomorphism from a group to its dual 11:44:46 Phantom_Hoover, Dual x `mappend` Dual y = Dual (y `mappend` x) 11:45:23 so it... reverses the order of the operation? 11:45:26 int-e, if I was better at words I would probably agree with you 11:45:27 Phantom_Hoover, yes 11:46:00 I think if you treat a monoid as a category with one object it is exactly CT dual 11:46:47 Right, you turn around all arrows. 11:46:54 Taneb, he means that ^-1 acts in the same way you've just described Dual 11:47:15 Phantom_Hoover, yes 11:48:22 (And I was under the impression that we were discussing groups at the time. Obviously, this doesn't help much with monoids that don't have inverses.) 11:48:43 (yeah, this is about groups) 11:48:49 (all groups are monoids anyway) 11:49:42 pages like http://www.tapscape.com/sheep-marketplace-scam-revealed-40-million-stolen/ that abuse CSS to entice people to enable Javascript make me angry. (Disabling the CSS instead helps, too.) 12:04:30 -!- L8D has joined. 12:04:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:08:59 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:20:06 -!- bixio has joined. 12:23:31 -!- bixio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:24:11 -!- bixio has joined. 12:24:43 -!- bixio has quit (Client Quit). 12:30:33 -!- bixio has joined. 12:34:48 ciao 12:34:49 !list 12:37:52 -!- bixio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:47:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:48:05 -!- augur has joined. 12:49:15 -!- augur_ has joined. 12:49:22 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:51:12 Don't think I've seen a non-joke !list in a while. 12:52:53 "Welcome to rajaniemi.freenode.net in Helsinki, Finland. Our thanks to Aalto University for sponsoring this server!" Huh, didn't know our university had anything to do with it. 12:55:48 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:56:09 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 12:56:09 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:08:36 !help 13:08:36 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 13:08:50 !help userinterps 13:08:51 ​userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 13:09:04 !userinterps 13:09:05 ​Installed user interpreters: about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanet 13:09:13 !inc 1 13:09:15 2. 13:13:28 !insanetemp 21 13:13:29 69.8 13:13:56 -!- yorick has joined. 13:16:32 -!- carado has joined. 13:18:33 !decide What? 13:18:45 ​\ /tmp/runghcXXXX6262.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `System.Random' \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 13:19:07 !python2 `[1]` 13:19:08 No output. 13:19:13 !python2 print `[1]` 13:19:14 ​[1] 13:20:43 !pirate arr? 13:20:44 arr? 13:20:50 !pirate r 13:20:50 r 13:20:52 hm 13:25:45 "we've going to be programmin on these, unless intel somehow gets a stranglehold on the processor market but that is not going to happen" 13:25:52 in 1975 13:26:47 "if we're still using threads and locks in 40 years [2015] we should just pack up and go home as we have clearly failed" 13:27:23 !pirate Something that's not piratey beforehand. 13:27:23 Something that's not piratey beforehand. 13:27:27 !pirate Something that's not piratey beforehand. 13:27:28 Something that's not piratey beforehand. 13:27:30 ... 13:27:40 (It's not always the same thing.) 13:27:45 !pirate Something that's not piratey beforehand. 13:27:45 Something that's not piratey beforehand. 13:27:47 ... 13:27:52 Well, I'm just not lucky. 13:28:00 [15:27:18] !pirate Something that's not piratey beforehand. 13:28:00 [15:27:18] Something that's not piratey beforehand, by Davy Jones's locker. 13:29:27 "we are not going to have text files before, we will be representing data spatially" 13:29:55 *anymore 13:31:09 Humanity has failed anyway 13:32:17 What does pirate do? 13:32:32 or what should it do 13:32:40 !pirate box 13:32:40 box 13:32:53 !pirate bay 13:32:54 bay 13:36:27 I guess EgoBot's live instance isn't web-repository-browseable, unlike HackEgo's. :/ 13:36:36 whoa stuff 13:36:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF4 13:37:39 !pirate I say, are you quite all right, man? 13:37:40 I say, I'll warrant ye, be ye quite all right, lubber? 13:37:45 That's more like it. 13:38:00 I'm streaming Dwarf Fortress 13:38:21 all the df 13:38:22 !pirate I'm not streaming Dwarf Fortress. 13:38:23 I'm not streaming Dwarf Fertress. 13:38:29 Fertress. 13:38:45 fungot: are you streaming dwarf fertress? 13:38:46 olsner: http://www.schemers.com/ fnord is the viewfinder you can turn a function inside-out. does that make sense to me 13:39:02 fungot: Only you can answer that. 13:39:02 fizzie: before then, he knew that, but befunge it is. 1, but it looks as though it were a procedure 13:40:17 !pirate I say, ... 13:40:17 I say, arrrr, ... 13:40:24 !pirate I say, that's more like it 13:40:25 I say, by Blackbeard's sword, that's more like it 13:40:46 I can't remember how to view it, though 13:41:18 http://lwn.net/1999/0121/a/mec.html 13:42:12 Hang on 13:42:17 I'm not playing in the terminal 13:42:22 I can't stream dwarf fortress 14:02:43 @msg boily Next time you may use alacritous . 14:02:43 Not enough privileges 14:02:46 what 14:02:52 Ok 14:05:19 -!- L8D has joined. 14:07:21 @tell tell tell 14:07:21 Consider it noted. 14:07:48 @wilhelm tell 14:07:49 Unknown command, try @list 14:07:51 @tell wilhelm 14:07:52 What should I tell wilhelm? 14:07:56 How should I know! 14:12:54 -!- lifthrasiir has left ("Leaving"). 14:12:57 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 14:13:00 whoops. 14:21:49 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:22:17 -!- augur has joined. 14:24:00 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:24:29 -!- augur_ has joined. 14:25:21 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:25:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:25:53 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 14:25:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:33:41 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:35:12 -!- heroux has joined. 14:43:39 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:46:52 -!- tertu has joined. 14:53:56 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:54:12 -!- augur has joined. 15:05:44 -!- L8D has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:38:51 Ok I absolutely love Lisp 15:39:41 It's the only homoiconic language I've seen (that means it treats code as a data type just like numbers or strings) 15:41:31 What about assembly? 15:41:52 Everything is the same type! 15:42:11 You are right in a way 15:42:27 (define define 0) 15:49:47 My iPad is connected to a PC. 15:50:17 iPad says not charging, battery app 1 says charging, app 2 says not. 15:52:34 Battery app 1 has a graph. So far battery level has not changed between 5 mins. 15:52:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:55:11 Slereah: Is it? 15:56:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:56:42 -!- augur has joined. 15:56:46 Nope 15:56:56 Integer vs string literal 15:57:30 Halite[tablet]: It's because all lisp programs are s-expressions 15:57:41 Not all 15:57:50 Some are M-expressions 15:58:32 Prolog is apparently homoiconic 15:58:39 What lisp dialects use m-expressions? 15:59:01 I mean, I know it (the HLL) was originally *meant* to use M-exprs, but AFAIK no dialect actually does that 15:59:14 FireFly: probably none. Doesn't mean they didn't exist. 15:59:47 Some concatenative languages could be considered homoiconic I think 15:59:51 such as Joy 16:00:26 I want to make my own homoiconic language 16:02:07 what does it take to be homoiconic, what about underload? you cannot analyze the code in any way except by running it... 16:02:40 but there is definitely no real distinction between data and code. 16:04:18 True 16:04:28 ...it's simple 16:04:46 If we had a program that took in just data and returned something to do with it 16:05:06 It's analogous to taking in code and giving data 16:07:17 lots of languages are homoiconic 16:07:27 infact, probably most, but not in any useful way 16:07:52 Not homoiconic like lisp though 16:08:02 few are like lisp, yes 16:08:07 How often do people still use self-modifying code, nowadays? 16:10:40 probably only smalltalk can really be claimed to have self modifying code in a true sense 16:10:53 Well 16:11:02 lisp at best has code that can write more code and run it 16:11:10 does runtime modification of classes count? 16:11:16 like... adding new function to them? 16:11:38 sure. i guess ruby does that too quite typically 16:12:44 having some amount of higher-order-ness is really i think a main reason that self-modification isnt terribly common 16:13:17 Is there a tool to help me make a programming language? 16:13:49 Halite[tablet]: haskell is a good language to design other languages in, i feel 16:13:50 The human braiiin 16:14:00 Halite[tablet]: I like Haskell 16:14:16 You can get started really quick with Parsec, a Statemonad and a simple eval loop 16:14:24 But it's not homoiconic :( 16:14:34 Halite[tablet]: sure it is 16:14:42 just not in as obvious a way as lisp 16:14:44 Ok functions are data types 16:14:47 but thats really a benefit for haskell 16:14:48 no no 16:14:52 Is Neil Patrick Harris homoiconic? 16:14:55 Wait 16:15:03 They're polymorphic types 16:15:15 haskell programs are ultimately just values in a haskell data type 16:15:16 Eg int -> float 16:15:28 its not implemented that way per se, but template haskell lets you expose some amount of that 16:16:11 but homoiconicity in your metalanguage isn't terribly important 16:16:12 I'd prefer using c# 16:16:15 lol 16:16:44 Good 16:16:53 Then you can use the CompilerProvider Thingies 16:16:55 Hallisp! 16:17:01 And directly emit IL 16:17:08 writing a language in haskell is really quite easy tho 16:17:25 you can write a (simple) lisp in an hour maybe? 16:17:29 augur: hmm? 16:17:42 SIMPLE 16:17:47 Key word 16:18:10 well, to add fancier features like macros or whatever would take a bit more time, because you'd have to design it all 16:18:18 but the core functionality is easy 16:18:31 I guess all you really need is a language with an eval function, though, no? 16:18:44 And it becomes easy for most cases 16:18:52 Translate the statement, evaluate the translation 16:21:33 augur: You can. @Lisp 16:21:41 mroman_: hm? 16:21:54 You can write a simple Lisp in an hour in Haskell 16:22:26 Haskell is remarkably like Lisp 16:22:39 well thats because both are LC inspired 16:23:02 ((+) 3 2) 16:29:06 Hah, the menus and the search function at the bottom. http://store.steampowered.com/ 16:30:30 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:30:56 -!- augur has joined. 16:34:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:35:30 Gah 16:35:44 I'm always troubled with Split 16:35:45 -!- augur has joined. 16:36:30 Can't take care of rags eg (+ (+ (3) (2)) (2)) 16:36:38 Args* 16:37:18 what'd i miss 16:37:21 Halite[tablet]: what are you talking about 16:37:39 fuck knows 16:37:46 ah yeah 16:37:53 I gotta install Haskel on my new Win8 Laptop too 16:38:08 Whenever I want to split arguments in my language, it will always split the arguments in the arguments and fail 16:38:21 How do I implement a method which doesn't do this. 16:38:41 what does that even mean 16:39:02 ... 16:39:04 Forget it 16:39:04 INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER 16:40:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:41:11 FORGET IT 16:41:37 BUT THAT WILL INCREASE ENTROPY FURTHER 16:42:00 zzo38: on a scale from 1 to 10, how much of a LaTeX expert are you? 16:42:04 or TeX 16:42:47 at least 11 for the latter. 16:43:10 I so fail 16:44:53 oerjan: when you think of me, what color/image/fruit/animal/appliance/whatever comes to mind. what concrete noun would be best associated with me? 16:45:54 quintopia: orange drink 16:46:20 Halite[tablet]: but your nick is orange. mine is white. :P 16:46:30 Nope 16:46:47 Mine is salt, thus it is white 16:47:15 Yours is -topia, so either yoghurt or Tropica fruit drinks come to mind 16:48:22 And with a posh invitation paper to invite it to my mind 16:48:28 -topia just means place, so why would it not be a place instead of a drink? 16:48:39 Idk 16:51:46 Halite[tablet]: Are having trouble parsing your language? 16:52:10 Yes. I got rid of it 16:52:25 Trying to do it with Haskell now, hmm 16:52:31 also my freaking headache is so bad I have trouble reading... 16:52:50 but yeah. Parsec is nice 16:53:32 quintopia: I don't know LaTeX, but I know TeX. I still don't know quite how much on such a scale, however. 16:55:21 Halite[tablet]: what language 16:55:45 Now, Haskell............ Not done much yet 16:56:13 Forget it 16:56:15 Halite[tablet]: i mean what language are you parsing 16:56:37 Idk 16:57:21 You could write an Interpreter for Spacefish 16:57:26 quintopia: Why do you want to know how much of a TeX expert am I anyways? 16:57:28 preferably with JS and animated canvas stuff . 16:58:41 zzo38: obviously so i can ask you difficult questions if i am trying to write some TeX file. 16:58:42 quintopia: i'm afraid i cannot answer properly, since "orange" popped into my mind and that was probably because it was written on the next line. 16:58:55 oerjan: Halite is such a biaser 16:59:09 oerjan: but i like the color orange. do you mean the fruit? 16:59:13 Ik ;) 16:59:36 Fruit 16:59:53 Hehehehehehe 17:00:18 ... 17:00:36 quintopia: i like both. 17:00:58 oerjan: so blood oranges and yellow oranges just won't do? 17:01:03 although perhaps something sweeter than the big oranges. 17:01:19 quintopia: just be my clementine 17:01:26 awwwww 17:01:30 I meant yellow oranges 17:01:33 <3 clementines 17:01:34 quintopia: Well, you can ask questions anyways; I do know a lot about it and have done things with it even sorting and multiple columns and other things. What is it you are trying to do? 17:01:44 they are so easy to peel and eat and don't make a mess 17:01:48 i could eat them all day 17:02:12 zzo38: nothing at the moment. i'll let you know if somethign comes up. 17:02:28 OK 17:02:36 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Spacefish <- need some brainstorm buddy 17:03:02 It should be possible to just place Max Values at some cells and then place the actuall values you are interested about on the outer edge 17:03:09 i.e where the distortion is minimal 17:03:15 which means the distortion is 1 17:03:33 then one should be able to reconstruct the stored value by subtracting 1 17:03:51 however 17:03:55 since 255 is max 17:04:04 you can't store 255 in such a cell 17:04:23 but that shouldn't matter 17:04:41 i.e it wraps around to 0, subtract 1 and you have 255 back 17:05:43 Reminds me of cellular automaton 17:06:31 mroman_: your reasoning sounds fine 17:06:38 also if you put a 254 in it, it would be distorted to 255 17:06:58 and that means, that 255 now influences values you put in the other edges 17:07:09 or wait 17:07:15 Can't you just put values far apart. 17:07:16 no. 17:07:17 mroman_: does every + or - cause a distortion? 17:07:34 like doing + to a 15 will suddenly distort cells even further away? 17:07:36 If you increase a value, you increase it's range of distortion, yes 17:08:18 mroman_: so what happens if I do a -+ to the start cell? 17:09:09 You will affect other cells with a change. Does that mean the other cells affect yet others? 17:09:10 also.. if you decrease it the space shrinks 17:09:35 quintopia: It warps around to 255 17:09:38 creating more space 17:09:44 then you increment it which wraps around to 0 17:09:47 and your space is gone 17:10:26 mroman_: so what happens if i do a ->>>>>>>>-+<<<<<<<<+ 17:11:33 also, what happens if i do ->>>>>>>>+<<<<<<<<+ 17:12:55 255 127 63 31 15 7 3 1 17:13:07 so 17:13:19 the - would decrement the cell's value 1 to 0 17:13:29 then increment it to 1 17:13:35 then you go back to the 255 cell 17:13:37 and set it to 0 17:14:03 (yeah just pretend i put seven >) 17:14:09 (and seven <) 17:14:21 I figured every active cell has to be "connected" to the initial cell 17:14:32 and if that connection is gone, the active cell vanishes 17:14:59 i.e you end up with only one active cell (the inital cell) with value 0 17:15:05 so then i couldn't move way off into space doing [->>>>>>>-<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>]? 17:15:05 *initial 17:15:25 or the second possibility would be 17:15:42 that you have two active cells 17:15:53 and there is actually no "space" between those 17:16:10 when space disappears, the distortion disappears too? 17:16:11 9/20 packets received (45.0%) 1963.789 min / 2440.817 avg / 2866.578 max 17:16:11 * trout dies 17:16:27 trout: are those JUMBOGRAMS? 17:16:28 quintopia: The distortion is actually what causes space to exist 17:17:22 mroman_: so implementation-wise, you have to watch the cell to see if it is incrementing or decrementing to or from a power of two, and if so, run out and do a whole bunch of distorting or undistorting? 17:17:42 Yeah 17:17:49 Once a cell changes it's value you have to adjust other cells 17:18:07 possibly deleting cells and/or shrinking the space 17:18:12 and expanding the space 17:18:22 mroman_: okay, so let's say ->>>>>>>+<<<<<<<++ creates two separate 1s. would another > take me back to the second 1? 17:18:40 I'm probably gonna go with the restriction, that every active cell must be within reach to the initial cell to keep existing 17:19:13 quintopia: No. The second one would disappear 17:19:21 mroman_: "within reach" meaning "connected to a cell that is within reach of the initial cell"? 17:19:45 quintopia: no 17:19:46 quintopia: Or in other terms: If a cell is not distorted by any other cell, it vanishes 17:19:59 quintopia: wireless 17:19:59 but yeah 17:20:34 mroman_: so a cell could be distorted by another cell even if it contains zero? 17:20:54 but that would allow you to create two cells distorting each other outside the range of the initial cell :) 17:21:24 quintopia: Which cell contains zero? 17:21:35 A cell containing zero does not distort any other cell 17:21:44 sure 17:21:50 but it could be distorted itself 17:21:51 right? 17:21:54 Yes. 17:22:00 It's undistorted value might be 255 17:22:16 sounds consistent 17:22:18 but due to some influence it's visible value is (255 + 1 = 0) 17:22:39 like uhm 17:22:46 ++>- 17:23:08 The value 2 in the initial cell distorts the cell to the right by 1 17:23:19 which means the decrement will set it to zero 17:24:11 okay here's a weird thing... 17:24:18 if i do ++++ 17:24:26 the cell to the right will become 2 17:24:34 which will distort the original cell to 5 17:24:40 right? 17:25:15 nope 17:25:37 the cell to the right is not considered an active cell 17:25:59 it becomes active ones you change it's value 17:26:00 okay what if i did ++++>-+^-+<-+<-+v 17:26:02 \ 17:26:07 what 17:26:11 stupid lag 17:26:15 +++>-+ 17:26:16 ++++>-+ 17:26:18 yeah 17:26:19 yeah 17:26:20 what is this distortion stuff all about? 17:26:23 is there a spec for this brainfuck derivative thing? 17:26:23 that's what i was trying to do 17:26:29 that would distort the original cell yes 17:27:24 okay, so what about ++++>-+<+++. what value does initial cell contain? 17:28:14 I.e distortion does not cause other distortion :) 17:28:30 Oooh this bf variation actually sounds somewhat interesting. 17:28:34 Who came up with it? 17:28:34 answer the question 17:28:37 quintopia: You initialize to 4, which means the cell to the right is distorted by two 17:28:47 you decrement it to one 17:29:01 which does not distort the initial cell because 1 /2 = 0 17:29:06 then you increment it back to 2 17:29:11 which distorts the initial cell by 1 17:29:16 causing it to be 5 17:29:26 then you add 3 to it 17:29:30 so it becomes 8 17:29:40 which distorts the cell to the right by 4 making it become 6 17:30:04 so initial cell: 8, cell to the right: 6 17:30:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:30:46 so the fact that the cell to the right is active doesn't mean that distortion to it propagates another further than it? 17:31:48 but... ++++>-+<+++>-+ should put the original cell to 10? 17:32:07 I'm not sure if it is problematic to propagate it further 17:32:22 you could say that 6 distorts the initial value again 17:32:25 by 3 17:32:29 making it become 11 17:32:51 which would distort the cell to the right now by 5 17:32:56 making it uhm... 7? 17:33:05 and then it should stop, right? 17:33:08 I don't get the distinction between initialisation and mutation 17:33:17 but then it becomes very difficult to set cells to arbitrary values yes? 17:33:24 unless you isolate them 17:34:30 If I ++++++++, would that affect surrounding cells as in the second example in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Spacefish#Storage ? 17:34:32 according to my esolangs.org wiki page the 6 would distort the initial value back 17:34:35 so yes 17:34:38 it would become 11 in that case 17:35:09 mroman_: this page needs Categories 17:35:28 FireFly: Just +...? 17:35:58 mroman_: yes, just 8 +'s, which would presumably set the initial active cell to 8? 17:36:05 Yes 17:36:05 but I'm not sure how it affects the surrounding cells 17:36:10 the example is incorrect though :) 17:36:14 that's an early made up sketch 17:36:20 it should distort 4 2 1 17:36:22 not just 4 and 2 17:36:27 ah, right 17:36:35 mroman_: if it propagates further it could be that -+ changes has a net (negative) effect on a cell, right? 17:36:43 but would ++++><++++ do the same thing? 17:36:50 quintopia: There could be very weird wrap around effects yeah 17:36:59 like a cell's value is 250 and the next cell has uhm... 17:37:03 mroman_: i mean not wraparound, just distortion 17:37:05 why wouldn't it propagate distortion for setting the cell to 1, then to 2, then to 3, then ..., to 8 17:37:06 20 17:37:15 it would distort the 250 to 10 17:37:31 which would distort the cell to the right less 17:37:37 and that's the problem with propagation 17:37:41 when does it stop? 17:38:05 FireFly: It does 17:39:17 Then I'd expect it to add \sum_{i=1}^8 \log_2{i} to the immediately surrounding cells 17:39:18 FireFly: A cell has an "actual value" and a "visible value" 17:39:30 the cell to the right of the initial cell has the actual value 0 17:39:37 but if you increment the initial cell to two 17:39:48 the visible value of that cell changes to 1 (due to distortion) 17:40:02 if you increment it to 8 17:40:09 the actual value is still 0 17:40:15 but the distortion is now 4 17:40:19 making the visible value 4 17:40:34 mroman: like for instance ++++++>+++<->-+ what is the value in the second cell? before and after the -+? 17:40:40 Hrm, sounds like distortion would be tricky to calculate when multiple nearby cells may affect it 17:41:09 Ok. Initial Cell = 6, then move to the right 17:41:12 Not necessarily 17:41:15 Seems hard to tell whether a particular operation distorts a particular cell, if you have to check if another nearby cell affects it too 17:41:19 increment it by 3 but it has a distortion of 3 17:41:29 making it's value 6 17:41:38 then move to the left 17:41:41 decrement it to 5 17:41:48 decreasing the distortion to two 17:41:58 fthey just sum. 17:42:07 so the cell to the right becomes 3 + 2 = 5 17:42:28 then move to the right 17:42:31 decrement it 17:42:34 making it's value 4 17:42:35 Sounds like way to add 17:42:40 mroman_: you miscalculated, but also, i meant ++++++>+<->-+ 17:42:49 Probably :) 17:43:20 I should write a 1D interpreter :) 17:44:12 mroman_: hold on a sec 17:44:40 quintopia: You set the initial cell to 6, then increment the cell to the right making it become 4 which distorts back the original cell by two making it become 8 17:44:41 I should write one w/o distortion 17:44:59 8>2>8<<-- where numbers denote number of +es, would leave the middle cell at 2+4 = 6? 17:45:17 then you move back, decrement it to making the cell to the right uhm... 17:45:34 7 / 2 = 3 17:46:26 so that doesn't change the value of the cell to the right 17:46:34 oh huh 17:46:44 probably 17:47:09 FireFly: 8>2> causes the second cell to become 6, yes 17:47:20 and the first cell to become 9 17:47:30 so you end up with 9,6 17:47:55 I realised the third 8 would mess with the initial cell too 17:47:57 What about +>+v+v+<+<+^+^+vv>v+v+<+>>+v+<<+v+>>+ 17:48:05 FireFly: Yes, it would 17:48:18 mroman_: would that retroactively affect the middle cell too? 17:48:44 hm 17:48:48 also the third cell is distorted by 1 (from the 2) + 2 (from the 8) 17:48:56 making it's value 11 17:49:18 which distorts the first and second cell :) 17:49:44 Man, this is confusing :D 17:52:55 mroman_: http://pastebin.com/p0gP83Nh 17:53:05 here is an example of -+ having a net negative effect 17:54:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:54:59 Make a 3d version :) 17:55:19 Keeping it to 1D/2D is probably easier to visualise 17:55:22 i agree that a 1d version would be hard enough 17:55:46 Excuses excuses 17:56:33 Make it fractional 17:56:48 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds). 17:58:48 FreeFull: heck yeah! 17:59:21 then there should be a solution to immediately jump to the equilibrium values... 18:03:59 It's going to be though to write an interpreter for that :D 18:05:41 mroman_: i feel like it would be easier just to completely separate the distortion value from the hidden value 18:05:43 It might even be the case, that the result depends on which cell the interpreter updateds first 18:05:52 *updates 18:06:16 mroman_: only let hidden values create distortion, and only add the distortion in when doing computation on the cell's value 18:06:35 (although, i don't know if this is actually "easy" or makes a difference at all... 18:06:39 ) 18:06:46 Yeah 18:06:56 Makes sense @computation 18:07:16 but still 18:07:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:07:38 I have the feeling that the result might depend on whether an interpreter updates the cell to the left first or if he updates the cell to the right first 18:07:42 but I don't know yet 18:14:10 mroman_, hm, why not apply both at once? 18:18:30 I don't know yet :) 18:18:42 It's currently just an idea 18:30:25 Affected bones would glow a greenish-white colour in the dark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phossy_jaw 18:33:16 -!- conehead has joined. 18:49:20 Everybode is welcome to write an interpreter or contribute to/for Spacefish :) 18:49:23 *body 18:49:35 or a compiler 18:49:39 if you're really sick 18:50:12 Pffff 18:50:21 . 18:52:25 what? 19:00:19 :p 19:08:02 Are you trying to troll me? 19:09:03 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:09:25 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:10:12 -!- carado has joined. 19:28:08 https://twitter.com/Gequeoman/status/406485957442285568 19:31:23 Let's hope there's some session id in it so somebody can hijack it 19:46:14 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:53:03 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:54:38 -!- oklopol has joined. 19:59:13 http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/12/01/047207/dial-00000000-to-blow-up-the-world 20:02:00 nice and easy to remember 20:06:28 the raf secured their nukes with bicycle locks 20:10:09 and chickens 20:10:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock#Chicken_power 20:10:43 "It does seem like an April Fool but it most certainly is not. The Civil Service does not do jokes." ah that dry british sense of humour 20:13:25 i wonder if anyon'es written a dedicated thing about the storied history of chickens in the cold war 20:14:08 there's that, there's skinner's thing... maybe biopreparat tried to invent avian flu at some point 20:36:17 -!- tswett has joined. 20:37:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:39:14 [21:39] [CTCP] Received CTCP-TIME reply from ais523: Sun Dec 1 21:39:02 2013. 20:39:15 neat 20:39:32 hmm? 20:39:37 you timed yourself? 20:39:48 nah, look at the timezone 20:39:48 Happy New Year's! 20:39:50 I'm in France atm 20:40:08 ah 20:40:17 It isn't new year yet. 20:40:18 that's GMT+1? 20:40:23 (Except the liturgical year) 20:40:30 quintopia: yeah 20:40:48 not something i would have thought to look for without prompting 20:43:02 in a ctcp-time response? 20:44:09 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:47:34 -!- tswett_ has joined. 20:48:09 Do you think someone who is deaf and dumb for his entire lifetime can write music? 20:49:50 -!- tswett5 has joined. 20:49:54 -!- tswett5 has changed nick to tswett__. 20:50:00 I doubt it. 20:50:03 @djinn ((((a -> e) -> e) -> a) -> e) -> e 20:50:04 -- f cannot be realized. 20:51:57 -!- tswett_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:54:03 ais523: cool, where in france are you? 20:54:14 nooodl: Fontainebleau 20:54:24 it's like two towns across from Paris in the south-east direction 20:54:33 -!- tswett__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:54:49 kmc: oh, there was a whole second discussion about that two-line patch where it was reverted? 20:54:58 good revert 20:55:11 discussion on that commit? yes 20:55:15 i've been avoiding that 20:55:24 which commit? 20:55:44 and i guess also twitter discussion 21:00:58 zzo38: only if he learns to play pinball first 21:02:33 ais523: how's your french? 21:02:46 quintopia++ 21:03:51 quintopia: pretty bad 21:04:12 I can read a smallish proportion of it, but can't understand spoken french, and can't speak it any better than barely intelligibly 21:05:03 do you have french-speaking friends around to smooth your way, or just depending on the ubiquity of english? 21:05:31 it's a conference, everyone at the conference itself speaks English 21:05:50 and enough of them speak French that so long as someone else is around, I can mostly navigate the non-conferency bits 21:06:02 what conference? 21:06:39 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:07:16 it's a workshop on bounded linear logic 21:07:17 not sure if it has a name 21:07:41 did you know chu spaces are a model for linear logic 21:07:57 "Just as !A weakens A to a poset (when K=2), ?A dually strengthens A to a distributive lattice, the dual notion to a poset." etc. 21:09:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:09:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:09:48 -!- muskrat has joined. 21:09:51 and ^_|_ is just transposing the matrix and so on 21:11:46 huh, how does Oj742_smartlock beat timer clears? 21:11:47 or doesn't it? 21:12:36 ah, it tries to shudder 21:13:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:14:05 in general, it just seems like a cleverer version of defend9, though 21:14:14 which is great, I thought defend9-style programs had no chance nowadays 21:14:16 -!- heroux has joined. 21:14:47 it should have a bounded linear name 21:15:21 shachaf: what are ! and ?, also what are chu spaces, help 21:17:09 kmc: i think !X means "as many as you want of X" 21:17:21 but someone who knows what they're talking about might correct me 21:17:44 (and ?X means "as many as i want of X"? maybe? help) 21:18:05 and chu spaces are the best thing but i don't understand them very well yet 21:19:24 ?X means "an X that you don't have to use if you don't want to" 21:19:24 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 21:19:26 i think ! is like a comonad and ? is like a monad? 21:19:34 normally in linear logic, you can't throw data away 21:19:56 so what, a chu space is just an arbitrary bunch of subsets? 21:20:14 wait, wasn't ?X "you have to use exactly N xs and i specify what N is"? 21:20:24 no, that's just X by itself 21:20:27 I thought 21:20:32 Isn't X itself "exactly 1"? 21:20:32 I'm not sure, though 21:20:37 I never work with the whole linear logic 21:20:37 Phantom_Hoover: Not even subsets exactly, since you drop extensionality. 21:20:43 just with fragments 21:21:00 Phantom_Hoover: But see http://chu.stanford.edu/ or something. 21:21:36 I remember ! being associated with comonoids. 21:22:19 (Not comonoids in Chu in general, which are also interesting things.) 21:22:32 trapped in chu space, send help 21:22:57 (If you solve http://thue.stanford.edu/puzzle.html about comonoids in Chu, you'll win a prize from Pratt!) 21:24:55 kmc: do you know topological space 21:25:00 chu space is a bit like that 21:25:02 i know the definition 21:25:05 can't do anything w/ them 21:25:33 "chu space" seems to be one of those concepts like "category" which incorporates all of math by being incredibly general 21:26:49 yes 21:27:17 "One can nevertheless reasonably ask where the vein of rich mathematical structures starts to peter out. The answer is that, in at least two technical senses, Chu spaces are a universal Theory of Everything." 21:27:51 but it's not so general as to be uninteresting 21:28:19 or maybe it is, i don't know 21:28:46 spec98 says # "moves the IP one position beyond the next Funge-Space cell in its path"; how does that interact with wraparound? 21:29:48 i.e. would 'x #' execute x once, or on and on forever? cfunge seems to go with the latter, so I'm guessing that's the correct interpretation 21:30:04 kmc: do you know the perspective of "observability" in topological spaces 21:30:22 e.g. http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/02/what-is-topology.html 21:31:09 FireFly: it's actually normally considered an officially ambiguous part of the spec 21:31:17 Mycology doesn't complain at you whatever you decide, for instance 21:31:20 Huh, okay 21:31:32 although it will mention it, in passing 21:31:50 The former interpretation would be more useful for golfing 21:44:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:45:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:50:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:52:15 https://gist.github.com/0xabad1dea/7740977 on topic! 21:52:19 -!- L8D has joined. 21:56:22 kmc: nice 21:59:10 `? machine 21:59:13 machine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:01:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:13:44 What's the non-commutative group with the smallest order? 22:15:15 * kmc used to know this 22:15:17 think it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihedral_group_of_order_6 22:16:20 "The smallest non-abelian group has 6 elements." 22:16:25 First sentence of that page 22:16:36 cool 22:18:02 `thanks kmc 22:18:03 Thanks, kmc. Tmc. 22:18:44 hooray 22:18:48 `thanks HackEgo 22:18:49 Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo. 22:18:56 `paste bin/thanks 22:18:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/thanks 22:19:17 `thanks 22:19:22 Thanks, sikl. Thikl. 22:19:27 `words 22:19:31 scapnef 22:19:39 fenpacs! 22:20:26 `thanks eeeeeeexxxxxxx 22:20:27 Thanks, eeeeeeexxxxxxx. Theeeeeeexxxxxxx. 22:21:03 `run echo eeeeeeexxxxxxx | perl -pe 's/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/;' 22:21:05 Theeeeeeexxxxxxx 22:21:41 oh the second carrot means not 22:21:47 `thanks xxxxxxeeeeee 22:21:47 caret. 22:21:48 Thanks, xxxxxxeeeeee. Theeeeee. 22:21:51 carrot. 22:21:53 :D 22:22:08 `nothanks kth 22:22:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nothanks: not found 22:22:12 er 22:22:14 kmc* 22:23:15 :P 22:23:18 *:O 22:23:24 groups does not have a bug in it 22:23:28 My mind was double-wrong 22:24:09 I love it when I'm double-wrong 22:24:19 It's all the best bits of being right, AND all the best bits of being wrong 22:24:57 haha 22:25:11 what's 'groups' 22:25:23 i don't like it when a program has the same bug in two ways though 22:25:46 it can take forever with the usual approach of "make one change and see if the bug went away and revert if not" 22:32:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:35:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:45:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:59:09 kmc, Haskell library with a Group class 22:59:17 ah 22:59:30 It may have been me thinking about it, seeing a shortcut, then forgetting about the shortcut 23:00:27 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:10:53 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 23:11:07 -!- muskrat has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:11:09 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 23:24:36 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:46:29 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:46:34 Hmm 23:46:42 -!- TodPunk has joined. 23:46:51 The Brogue code looks like I could concievable understand it well enough to modify it if I wanted to 23:48:10 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 23:48:15 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: No route to host). 23:51:21 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:57:42 hmm 23:58:07 i didn't realise until now that bitcoin is, like, inherently designed to collapse once mining becomes unprofitable 23:59:12 heh 2013-12-02: 00:00:24 It needs to be revitalized by drug money 00:03:18 i'd imagine moore's law figures in that somehow. 00:04:51 *into 00:07:21 In theory, there's some sort of equilibrium (the fewer miners there are the more attractive it is to mining), and of course a competition for mining faster and more cheaply (this explains the move to ASICs that happened this year.) 00:08:03 the fewer miners part doesn't apply if there's no _marginal_ profit at all. 00:08:07 i'd think. 00:09:50 also that profitability needs to sustain all bitcoin transactions happening everywhere 00:09:53 there are supposed to be transaction fees to compensate for the lack of new coins being minted 00:09:58 * int-e shrugs 00:10:02 ah 00:10:10 such freedom 00:10:12 so liberty 00:18:47 mining stops eventually, anyway? 00:19:15 I think it continues forever? 00:19:31 oh. I guess I don't understand how bitcoin works then 00:20:31 I think like. mining gets you new coins + transaction fees 00:20:39 and the new coins slowly trail off? 00:21:10 so it never actually reaches the total number of bitcoins, just approaches it slower and slower? 00:21:17 no, it eventually reaches it 00:21:56 I think like it gives 50 per block, then 25, then 12.5.... plus transaction fees? 00:22:07 then surely mining eventually gets you 0 coins? what would be the point to mining then? 00:22:24 I think the transaction fees? 00:22:25 "mining" is the process of signing blocks of transactions. that needs to be done to keep the system going. the freshly minted coins are an incentive for doing so, but as I mentioned, transaction fees are possible (with transactions having fewer incoming coins than outgoing coins; the remainder can be claimed by whoever does the proof of work for the transaction's block) 00:22:49 okay, right. 00:23:24 the quantities are finite precision so eventually it does reach 0 00:25:28 (oddly I trust bitcoins about as far as I can throw them :) ) 00:30:58 http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ ... the growth in (totally wasted!) computing power is crazy. 00:34:16 clearly the future belongs to spamcoin, a cryptographically secure currency based on solving captchas. 00:36:21 haha 00:36:30 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 00:39:41 int-e, has anyone tried working out accusatory stats like power costs and carbon footprint yet 00:42:46 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:16 Hmm. Last I checked, ASIC hardware was computing about a billion hashes per Joule. (which is a couple of 100s times better than GPUs; I have no numbers for FPGAs, but they should be inbetween) 00:44:42 So we have something like a 6MW lower bound on the power usage, and it's likely to be quite a bit more. 00:45:30 20MW? 100MW? I don't know :) 00:49:33 actually https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison has MHash/J numbers for a fairly wide range of hardware, including FPGAs 00:59:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:07:31 what kind of scam is this? http://carbonjar.com/ 01:36:33 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:36:58 http://www.amazon.com/b?node=8037720011 01:37:07 Amazon is going to start delivering packages by drone, as soon as the FAA will let them 01:39:56 -!- Bike has joined. 01:40:17 Bike: http://www.amazon.com/b?node=8037720011 Amazon is going to start delivering packages by drone, as soon as the FAA will let them 01:41:04 i'm amused that i first heard that from a foreign policy person 01:41:31 anyway i don't thnk i see the point 01:42:43 explain? 01:43:14 maybe it's just me personally but the only thing i've wanted delivered in less than half an hour is dinner 01:43:49 well my house runs on Google Shopping Express 01:44:00 we don't *need* things same-day but it's convenient 01:44:15 (helps that GSE's prices are ridiculously unsustainably low) 01:44:26 hrm 01:44:47 when Amazon Prime was first announced I thought it was silly to care about getting stuff in 2 days instead of 7ish but now it feels like a big reason to buy things on amazon 01:45:03 well i don't use that >_> 01:45:12 i have it for free for now but i'm probably hooked 01:45:16 you raise the level of convenience available and give people a taste and they won't go back 01:45:20 i think i'm just unsure what to think of megacorporations being run by sci-fi fans 01:45:20 first hit's free, kids 01:45:36 Bike, can't be worse than them being run by businessmen 01:45:52 they are definitely run by businesspeople, whether or not they're also sci-fi fans 01:46:03 when i think of things being run by engineers i think of chinese dams. 01:46:16 don't kid yourself that the CEO of a $180B company is not a businessman 01:46:40 sure. and i mean they're all ignoring the 'mass social inequality is bad' bits of cyberpunk anyway 01:46:45 just cause you share some culture that was subcultural in the distant past 01:46:47 also I don't think ultra-fast delivery has to be a big part of the value proposition 01:46:55 thanks kmc for that pedantry 01:47:18 thanks P_H for that thing you do 01:48:00 (didn't little rich boys reading 30s pulp sci-fi grow up to be businessmen too?) 01:48:37 drones have the potential to be cheaper and a lot easier to manage logistically 01:49:00 compared to a big heavy gasoline-powered truck with a human inside, run by a third party 01:49:09 but I dunno, I haven't run the numbers or anything 01:50:05 then again the best ways to move huge amounts of cargo slowly hasn't changed that much in 100 years 01:50:10 boats and trains 01:50:17 containerization is a big deal though 01:50:34 * Bike imagines his dad breaking in "I think you mean SHIPS, kmc" 01:51:06 there's a lot of shipping stuff up and down the columbia, it's neat, though 01:51:58 gasoline-powered as opposed to what, kerosene-powered? 01:54:06 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:20 hm i wonder how those projects on making kerosene from algae are going. 01:55:37 -!- conehead has joined. 01:58:42 Phantom_Hoover: mostly, small quadrotor drones are electric, I didn't check about this one though 01:59:23 oh i assumed they'd be like, jet uavs with boxes of books on little parachutes 01:59:30 i realise in hindsight that this is very silly 02:02:41 hehe 02:02:43 that would be awesome 02:02:46 ballistic package delivery 02:02:51 your pizza in 30 minutes or the next one's free 02:03:02 Bike: here's an interesting theory https://twitter.com/tcarmody/status/407321435016032256 02:10:57 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:13:03 wouldn't ballistic delivery be a massive artillery cannon firing delivery shells 02:13:30 A few weeks ago I saw someone repairing a Coca-Cola vending machine and once they closed it and left, they left the configuration menu active, so I was able to see the error messages in it and the sale count and so on; I don't know what all of the options mean though. 02:26:22 -!- Taneb has left ("Leaving"). 02:29:18 kmc: you know i was actually thinking that 02:29:25 well, i didn't make the china connection 02:32:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:34:11 zzo38: neato 02:34:26 I remember back in like 1998 reading about coke machines that were connected to the internet and thinking "wow that's cool" 02:34:38 there's probably a Serious Business usecase for that now 02:34:52 what are they on the internet for? remote reconfiguration? 02:35:02 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:35:25 -!- heroux has joined. 02:35:39 price of dr pepper is raised one dollar in the middle of my purchase and i am arrested for fraud 02:36:06 i imagine it could be useful for logistics 02:41:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:22:39 zzo38: a lot of machines leave the default passcode for the debug menu 03:28:30 quintopia: Yes I know, I have tried; on those machines I usually find the menu has read-only options, and you cannot do anything other than read the sale count, cash, and error message. 03:29:06 but it's very interesting to see which drinks sell most 03:29:36 Yes, you can check that. 03:37:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:42:32 -!- NamelessOne has joined. 03:48:55 "@SnoopDogg: My next record available in bitcoin n delivered in a drone." 03:49:02 -!- NamelessOne has left. 04:02:26 woo 04:02:53 of course, he'd have to charge like 2BTC to be able to pay for the drone 04:04:01 plus you'd have to be crazy to pay in a deflationary currency 04:08:13 #420 04:11:51 Maybe they are crazy enough. 04:13:28 itym "you'd have to be high to pay in a deflationary currency" 04:15:26 kmc: i thought it was "you have to pay in a deflationary currency to get high" 04:20:10 once upon a time yes 04:20:15 RIP SR :\ 04:20:51 it's back i thought 04:21:00 something else with that name anyway 04:28:01 SR? 04:29:16 St. Richard 04:29:41 kmc: BUT HOW CAN WE TRUST SOMETHING LIKE THAT EVER AGAAIN 04:29:58 silk road probably 04:30:20 rip silk road, 1197-1253 04:31:01 shachaf: WE'LL NEVER GET QUALITY CHINESE CLOCKS AGAIN 04:31:03 oh wait 04:42:26 I am writing Z-machine in Famicom. Currently I have 780 non-comment lines. (counted using egrep -cv $'^[\t ]*(;|$)') 04:43:45 Why does it seem many programs today fail to follow the UNIX way of using filters and pipes and that stuff? 04:44:34 tomorrow on jerkcity: QUALITY CHINESE CL?OCKS 04:45:32 has unix ever actually been pipe-based or has it been based on inconsitent arcane command linearguments forever 04:46:42 Bike: Well, a lot of things are; lp is although dvilj4 isn't unless its argument is - 04:47:26 how about, like, ls. or dd. 04:48:28 Well, ls is designed for output, not input; dd is not using the common syntax of other commands due to some strange reason, although it does use stdin/stdout if you don't tell it the filenames otherwise. 04:48:32 zzo38: probably because the unix way of doing things is not actually the best way for every situation? 04:49:04 quintopia: Yes, it isn't best for everything, but there is a lot of things it would work for but that they don't do it that way. 04:49:26 zzo38: i mean, ls does all its own coloring and sorting and stuff. 04:49:35 is there a turing complete language with only 2 instructions? 04:49:40 zzo38: it doesn't really make sense for imagemagick, for instance. imagemagick is a lot simpler the way it is 04:49:52 L8D: yes 04:49:55 what? 04:50:17 bitchanger, perhaps? just go to the tarpits section of the wiki and poke around. 04:50:52 L8D: sk combinators? 04:50:56 quintopia: Yes, for ImageMagick, it still does need the command to tell it the file type and all that stuff, and you might have more than one file; yet it still helps that you can tell it to use stdin/stdout if you don't give a filename (you still need the type) and that can be useful too 04:51:14 Bike: what is that supposed to mean? 04:51:23 L8D: sk combinator calculus 04:51:36 But I think for dvilj4 it would make more sense to use pipe/filter (dvilj4 is a program to convert DVI to PCL) 04:52:29 yeah no 04:52:52 sk combinators need i combinators to be turing complete 04:53:01 and bitchanger is 4 instructions 04:53:05 L8D: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Impera 04:53:06 L8D: No, it doesn't, i can be made from sk 04:53:07 L8D: um i = skk 04:53:18 zzo38: you can? 04:53:21 L8D: also /// is TC with only / and \ 04:53:57 shachaf: Like oerjan said, i = skk 04:54:20 well, I’m looking for something that can be hidden in the bits of a file 04:54:22 not bytes 04:54:25 bits 04:54:35 zzo38: i thought you said you can be made from sk 04:54:45 L8D: take a look at iota and jot 04:54:49 L8D: you can hide any language in the bits of a file. 04:55:09 I’m talking about instruction-per-birt 04:55:10 bit* 04:55:40 it would be nice if there was some general way to put larger data into smaller data units 04:55:41 hmm can't think of any like that off the top of my head 04:55:46 like if there was some kind of code 04:56:00 but: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag 04:56:35 Bitwise Cyclic Tag works...I guess 04:57:38 you know how when you have italic text inside other italic text you just un-italic it? 04:57:41 that's the worst thing 04:57:54 in what scenario? 04:58:07 you can do nested italics tags in HTML 04:58:13 what's wrong with that shachaf 04:58:16 shachaf: In MediaWiki, do you mean? 04:58:18 FooVar 04:58:36 L8D: Jot might be more compact than BCT 04:58:40 And you can use HTML italics in MediaWiki too 04:59:02 here's a bunch of others to try: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Turing_tarpits 04:59:17 cool 05:00:10 I once read on Wikipedia some article about classical logic, one of the sections game what looks to me like SK calculus with one more rule dealing with negation. 05:03:35 SK calculus is like the curry-howard correspondence for the hilbert axioms of logic. 05:04:12 oops pressed return too fast 05:04:32 it occurs that i have the first google hit for "ptrace for breakfast" 05:05:11 i just came up with an idea for a two-instruction tape-based imperative TC lang 05:05:21 because i couldn't find one on the wiki 05:05:23 i like ptrace and breakfast 05:05:50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry-Howard_correspondence#Correspondence_between_Hilbert-style_deduction_systems_and_combinatory_logic 05:06:15 has there ever been a relevant dilbert parody 05:06:38 hilbert, not dilbert, bike 05:07:12 no i mean dilbert but about hilbert 05:07:20 aha 05:09:54 oerjan: do you know how many nested conditionals are required to implement the simplest turing machine 05:09:55 maybe they could reanimate him as a zombie or something 05:10:03 quintopia: no hth 05:10:11 oerjan: tdnh 05:23:35 oerjan: do you know of a lang that is TC without being capable of nested loops or conditionals, or which bounds the number of nested loops or conditionals? 05:24:10 what do you mean by capable 05:25:17 i thought it was obvious. why do you ask that? 05:25:52 because (one) if it's TC it can emulate a system with unbounded loops (two) we were just talking about combinators which you surely know about and don't have loops or conditionals 05:26:44 well again, i'm thinking only about imperative langs here 05:27:23 so i guess 05:27:35 i mean that if you want to do unbounded loops 05:27:40 you have to roll your own 05:27:52 because the lang itself supports no such constructs in its syntax 05:28:02 (or unbounded nested conditionals) 05:28:51 ok, scheme doesn't have loops, how about that. 05:29:40 i always thought of scheme as mostly functional 05:30:00 it has begin. 05:30:28 -!- oerjan has set topic: IT HAS BEGIN | Although maybe if something else strange is done, it might not? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 05:30:30 present tense? 05:31:14 it has a special form (or maybe it's a macro, who cares), "begin", that does a sequence of things one at a time. "imperative" 05:31:17 okay let's make it simpler: know of any imperative TAPE languages with bounded depth of loop/conditional? 05:31:40 (of course more simple means morel ikely to get a "no" but i have to try) 05:31:43 pretty sure bf is TC with bounded depth. 05:31:59 yeah, there you go. 05:32:44 oerjan: what bound? 05:32:49 probably as little as two deep. 05:33:31 a main loop to keep things running, and subloops to do various conditional stuff. 05:33:48 any implementation of another language in brainfuck would establish a bound, no 05:34:00 yeah i'm looking at the TM impl in BF. 05:34:14 it's nested very deep 05:34:42 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/dbfi.b a bound: however deep this is 05:35:05 like five or six probably 05:35:06 bam 05:44:26 oh i was just looking at that 05:44:49 yeah it's six 05:44:50 or you could just write a SUBLEQ interpreter or some shit 05:44:53 for that interpreter 05:47:14 okay i got it 05:47:19 sweet 05:49:30 Do any SQL systems support trigger indices? (Meaning an index on a field of a table or view, but not for the data, but rather for all triggers on it having conditions where one of them is separated by AND and tests if that field is equal to some value, then it places it in that index slot.) 05:53:54 regclobber.c:69:5: warning: ‘main’ is normally a non-static function [-Wmain] 05:53:57 exciting variation! 05:54:13 also the syntax for attributes on function definitions is f'd up 05:54:13 void __attribute__((noreturn)) finish(int retval) { 05:55:02 vs for a declaration: void finish(int retval) __attribute__((noreturn)); 05:55:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:58:44 why'd they switch the order on declarations 05:59:35 probably some awful syntactic ambiguity 05:59:39 beats me 06:03:34 GiveDirectly expanded into Uganda: http://www.givedirectly.org/blog_post.php?id=4639869356775728332 06:03:39 "In the extremely rural areas where we chose to work, few households possessed government IDs (required to register for mobile money) so we had to find creative ways to expedite ID procurement" 06:03:48 no further detail is given 06:09:56 What channel do I go to for cryptography? 06:10:10 I want to ask them what book I should buy 06:10:17 ##crypto 06:10:26 thanks 06:10:32 I had a book once but I forget the title 06:10:37 i liked scheiner's. 06:10:41 kinda informal i guess. 06:11:08 Applied Cryptography? 06:11:10 it's... outdated 06:11:12 http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2013/07/22/applied-practical-cryptography/ 06:11:25 shows what i know. 06:11:33 Cryptography Engineering is supposedly better 06:11:58 the ##crypto topic links to http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/hac 06:12:08 cool how these books all have almost the same title, eh? 06:12:43 my book will be titled "engineering applications of cryptography" 06:15:39 Whatever book it was I read, explained several things including encrypted poker games and secret sharing algorithms. 06:16:33 Select any point in the plane and generate a bunch of equations of lines all of which pass through the point; you need any two of them to figure out what point is meant. 06:17:51 those are cool yeah 06:18:01 zzo38: what do you think about zero knowledge proofs? 06:18:31 they're pretty neat 06:18:35 (Several things would have to be taken into account to make a secure implementation though, I think) 06:19:26 kmc: I didn't really remember much about how zero knowledge proof works; maybe I can look it up later to understand better 06:19:49 ZKP that I know a 3-coloring of some graph we both have: i write down colors for every vertex on slips of paper and put them face down on the table. you pick an edge. i reveal those slips and burn the rest. you see that they name different colors 06:20:27 we repeat this until you're convinced i'm not just lucky. but i randomly permute the 3 colors between rounds so that you can't assemble an overall coloring 06:20:54 for an electronic version, replace slips of paper with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commitment_scheme 06:21:00 Ah, OK. Yes I have read about that (but I think not in a book though) 06:21:22 it's pretty amusing to imagine this actually being done with slips of paper 06:21:28 kmc: "commitment scheme" would be a good name for a lisp dialect 06:21:29 between outlaws in the wild west, perhaps 06:21:39 which is similar to "encrypt them and then reveal some keys" but actual encryption schemes don't have all the desired technical properties 06:21:42 refusing to reveal the knowledge of where the treasure is 06:21:55 that would be awesome Bike 06:22:10 you should write this story 06:23:45 it would be easier to plot if it was a hamiltonian cycle or something instead 06:23:56 what about negative-knowledge proofs 06:24:06 where you end up being more confused than when you started 06:24:10 TA's lament 06:24:18 also student's lament I guess 06:25:11 pretty sure that is bike's lament 06:26:01 traditional ZKPs are all interactive like that, but there are non-interactive variants 06:26:14 huh, i didn't know hamilton tried to make 3ions for path finding 06:26:27 somehow i forgot that it's the same hamilton as quaternions 06:26:37 where I hash the problem description and use the bits of the hash output as your random choices 06:26:38 what's a good non-interactive zkp 06:26:50 oh 06:27:00 and provide enough answers that it's implausible I brute-force tweaked the problem description to get favorable coin flips 06:27:17 i don't understand all the subtleties of how to make this work properly 06:27:23 where can i read about that 06:27:37 Zerocoin uses non-interactive ZKPs, committment schemes, *and* one-way accumulators to build true anonymity into the bitcoin block chain 06:27:40 p. cool stuff 06:27:49 shachaf: don't know but "non-interactive zero-knowledge proof" should be a decent search term 06:27:53 i bet the zerocoin paper has citations too 06:27:54 obviously snoop is on the wrong boat 06:28:36 i think anonymously buying an album with complementary weed from snoop with zerocoin would be the most cyberpunk thing i could do in my lifetime 06:30:28 what's that music thing that sometimes is played at the end of some old films 06:41:59 In a 6502 code, is asl a asl a asl a php php ror a plp ror a plp ror a a proper way to sign-extend a number? 06:42:56 http://i.imgur.com/ZgXds9B.png 06:43:33 "Ah. I guess it's supposed to various. Unnecessary but kinda makes sense." 06:43:43 anti-various protection 06:43:54 "anti-various pro" yes that 06:56:49 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to AntiVariousPro. 06:57:58 -!- AntiVariousPro has changed nick to AntiVariousProte. 06:58:00 Meh 07:04:04 Are there any computers (or VMs) other than VAX that have an "increment immediate" instruction? 07:06:10 what does that do? 07:07:14 Increments the instruction operand itself rather than whatever it points to 07:08:21 (Of course it won't work if the instructions are stored in ROM, but if that address is also mapped to bankswitching or something else, then it would affect that too) 07:12:05 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:12:56 -!- redpine has joined. 07:13:33 -!- redpine has left ("Leaving"). 07:26:29 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:28:14 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:50:22 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:52:26 ah you can also do __attribute__((noreturn)) void finish(int retval) { ... 07:53:28 so it's like 'static' or whatever... you can do void static f(...) as well 07:53:28 that's a bit less terrible 07:53:41 OK 08:00:33 Do you know any cheat code for Pokemon Card GB2 to cause it to always use six side cards instead of four? 08:02:52 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 08:03:39 no 08:06:19 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Client Quit). 08:07:00 shachaf: one interesting property of ZKPs is that if you watch a recording of me convincing zzo38 i can 3-color this graph, you are still not convinced at all 08:07:04 because we might have colluded 08:07:30 it's a weird sort of "knowledge" which can't be transferred 08:07:33 but non-interactive ZKPs do not have this property clearly 08:08:05 kmc: I noticed that just a minute ago when I looked on Wikipedia, it says something like that too. 08:10:13 oh i didn't know that ZKPs came from the same paper which introduced the IP complexity class hierarchy 08:18:22 kmc: can zzo38 convince me that the ZKP was convincing without actually knowing your secret 08:23:56 probably not 08:24:19 maybe he can do something like a n-i ZKP but not reveal to me that this is where the bits came from 08:24:22 and then reveal it to you later 08:24:33 not sure 08:25:10 or use the hash of today's jerkcity strip or w/e 08:30:38 Are there any variant of zero-knowledge proof which is involving quantum entanglement? 08:32:25 kmc: did you see http://blog.sigfpe.com/2013/10/distributed-computing-with-alien.html 08:35:59 interesting 08:36:21 "If the conjecture is true it means that nature looks a bit like a conspiracy to keep computer scientists in work." yes i've wondered that 08:37:43 full employment theorem, mexican hat functionn, 08:37:44 perhaps the anthropic principle applies and all the universes where computer stuff is easy have already been tiled with smiley faces 08:41:53 I think we should query fungot for input on the topic 08:41:53 FireFly: wrong channel to let that go.), but that was the great thing about perl is what i've done so. the dynamic analyses assume an open world, and i'll be pretty happy with araneida ( in cl parlance)? so i can just use this and skip the actual installation 08:47:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:48:35 ^style illuminatus 08:48:36 Not found. 08:49:27 kmc: i like smiley faces 08:59:13 ☺ 08:59:39 `run perl -e 'print "☺" x 1024' 08:59:42 ​☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺☺ 08:59:45 gj 08:59:55 😍 09:00:01 hm did that render for you 09:00:04 `run ls bin | paste 09:00:07 no (screen?) 09:00:12 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27992 09:00:18 it's a non-bmp character 09:00:24 but it's not showing up in tmux either :'( 09:00:34 it's U+1F60D SMILING CAT FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES 09:00:54 wait, no 09:01:06 that's just a SMILING FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES 09:01:07 -!- oklopol_ has joined. 09:01:09 i was cheated out of a cat! 09:01:14 😻 09:01:18 at least it's showing up in the logs 09:02:03 `run echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -e' > bin/perl-e && chmod +x bin/perl-e 09:02:07 No output. 09:02:27 `perl-e print "Vanilla milkshakes from Hard Rock cafes\n" 09:02:28 Bareword found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "/hackenv/bin" \ (Missing operator before bin?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "/hackenv/bin" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 09:02:31 fuckers 09:02:48 `which perl 09:02:50 ​/usr/bin/perl 09:03:36 `run printf '#!/bin/bash\n\nperl -e "$@"\n' > bin/perl-e && chmod +x bin/perl-e 09:03:40 No output. 09:03:54 `perl-e "Enlarged by nature to show true texture.\n" 09:03:55 No output. 09:03:59 `perl-e print "Enlarged by nature to show true texture.\n" 09:04:00 Enlarged by nature to show true texture. 09:04:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:06:25 `perl-e print "It's the devil's way now. You have not been " . "paying attention " x 8 09:06:26 It's the devil's way now. You have not been paying attention paying attention paying attention paying attention paying attention paying attention paying attention paying attention 09:07:57 fungot: go and tell the king that the sky is falling in when it's not 09:07:57 kmc: how so? it's not just thin syntactic sugar whereby multi could expand to ( atan z) be expanded to ( if let ( begin ( while ( vi pivot)) to ( begin ( blah...) 09:09:05 oklopol_: are you in chile? 09:16:43 the sky is expanding to (atan z)! 09:24:04 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Changing server). 09:30:45 If you have a grammar, a string, a corresponding AST, and a change in the string (insertion/removal), and want to augment the AST by applying the change to it.. does that problem have a name? 09:31:28 'stuck writing Eclipse' seems like a problem to me 09:31:56 ._. 09:46:34 FireFly: http://codepad.org/98Q1bM4w 09:49:48 turns out the middle cell becomes 10 09:53:30 Hm 09:56:39 (Distortion does not cause other distortion now) 09:57:58 So one has to take distortion only into account when comparing cell values 10:03:15 -!- dwildman has joined. 10:03:24 -!- dwildman has left. 10:08:37 -!- mtve has quit (Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0). 10:13:22 shachaf: don't you love that a file with the name is actually something super specific "for GDB and GDB only... Don't use it for anything other than GDB" 10:15:02 that's a lie, right? 10:15:11 which 10:15:21 "for GDB and GDB only" 10:15:37 You more or less have to use this file for ptrace. 10:18:43 right 10:19:10 (or you can use if you want to get them one at a time with PTRACE_PEEKUSER, but I think that's not supported on all architectures either) 10:19:15 then again, maybe using ptrace coutns as "you know what you are doing" 10:19:20 i think so yes 10:19:26 "that's why i go out of my way to use ptrace" 10:19:36 i think there's also a polite fiction that only gdb needs to use ptrace 10:19:50 Well, ptrace(2) specifically mentions sys/user.h 10:19:52 or was n years ago when that comment was written 10:20:02 what about strace (the best program) 10:20:15 i wonder where I read to use reg.h 10:20:22 if strace is so great why isn't it ltrace or lltrace 10:20:29 or.... dtrace 10:20:42 or that program i never got around to writing to trace mmap accesses 10:20:50 sorry i meant latrace not lltrace 10:21:07 why isn't it ☺trace 10:21:10 i have had the misfortune to need xtrace as well 10:21:31 i've either needed xtrace or not needed it and used it anyway 10:21:34 not sure which 10:21:48 i've never used latrace (or heard of it) and i've barely used dtrace 10:22:20 latrace is like ltrace but it uses LD_AUDIT to do its thing 10:22:41 LD_AUDIT is one of those features obscure enough that the first google hit is "GNU glibc Dynamic Linker 'LD_AUDIT' Local Privilege Escalation" 10:22:55 but it's useful for things other than writing exploits 10:23:58 imo write a combined {syscall,ray} tracer 10:36:18 sgtm 10:36:37 it will VISUALIZE the inside of the kernel 10:51:32 http://sprunge.us/BUQd best model? 10:59:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:02:23 -!- AntiVariousProte has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:25:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:37:57 -!- Hi has joined. 11:38:21 -!- Hi has changed nick to Guest10636. 11:42:27 -!- Guest10636 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:48:11 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:57:40 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:57:47 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:57:51 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:57:52 -!- quintopia has joined. 11:58:12 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 11:58:12 -!- quintopia has joined. 11:58:17 -!- EgoBot has joined. 12:10:30 -!- ggherdov has joined. 12:13:12 Which is that popular language which is strong and static typed in a hideous way 12:13:43 java? 12:13:48 ada? 12:15:38 One that I can say "If you're coming from ___ you may thing that strong, static typing in Haskell is scary" 12:15:46 Or ugly or whatever 12:19:32 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:19:51 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 12:24:41 -!- oklopol_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:33:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:26:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:31:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:39:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:05:10 -!- boily has joined. 14:05:25 -!- L8D has joined. 14:08:27 good what-happened-to-the-/topic morning! 14:10:48 06:29:40 i always thought of scheme as mostly functional 14:10:49 06:30:00 it has begin. 14:12:34 makes no sense. perhaps after this kernel upgrade, I'll receive enlightenment. 14:12:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: POULET!). 14:14:24 well, Verity has begin (in the Algol sense) 14:14:40 I'm not sure if it counts as functional or not, but not for that reason 14:14:58 -!- boily has joined. 14:15:32 "Volume: PP, Issue: 99" I don't think these values are quite final. 14:15:38 boily: try putting quotes around "begin", does it make more sense then? 14:16:13 ais523: ooooooh. 14:30:46 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:42:52 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 15:00:07 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:01:16 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:08:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:13:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:14:25 -!- augur has joined. 15:18:29 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:40:03 -!- conehead has joined. 15:44:04 -!- yorick has joined. 15:47:03 `frink 0.1 g -> dr 15:47:11 0.056438339119328660665 15:47:19 `frink 0.1 g -> gr 15:47:26 1.5432358352941430651 15:51:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:01:57 “lens continues its plans for world-domination…” ← http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/posts/2013-12-01-24-days-of-hackage-intro.html 16:05:12 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:41 -!- augur has joined. 16:11:22 Has lens grown sentinent yet? 16:11:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:20:55 -!- augur has joined. 16:23:13 FireFly: only once every possible operator will be covered. 16:23:18 [...] does that problem have a name? <-- incremental parsing? 16:27:17 oerjan: that's what I tried looking for initially, but I mostly found stuff using "incremental" to mean "you feed input to the parser continuously" instead 16:27:19 sadly the term seems not to be used consistently. 16:27:32 yeah i notice that haskell package 16:27:46 but the yi link clearly talks about the kind you want. 16:28:48 yi link? 16:29:27 http://yi-editor.blogspot.no/2008/11/incremental-parsing-in-yi.html 16:30:02 it would be _so_ nice if google let you copy links from its search page without revisiting them. 16:30:02 Oh, hm 16:30:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:30:58 That seems to be precisely what I want, yes 16:31:26 yay! 16:41:34 "Slow lorises reproduce slowly" -- wikipedia 16:42:53 shocking 16:43:07 what do cheetahs do? 16:43:11 next they will tell you that blue skies are blue 16:45:49 Oh 16:45:53 Wait, wrong window. 16:45:55 Carry on. 16:48:09 mrhmouse: I count 1/4/3. that makes a lousy haiku. you should try again. 16:49:55 Sol lories 16:49:59 ... 16:50:09 Febentanasia 16:50:54 Phantom_Hoover: slorises don't though 16:51:03 is Halite[tablet] saying he has delirium from fever 16:51:20 it's all that halite in his system 16:51:29 ~duck febentanasia 16:51:40 * boily sighs 16:51:42 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:51:55 Febenebenebenebenebenebdbennebebebebebebbebnrtanassssssiiaiaaaaaa 16:51:59 oh no, you infected metasepia! 16:52:30 oerjan: he did, the vile scallywag that he is. I can't make it reconnect anymore now. 16:52:43 int-e: ic what you did there. 16:52:44 * boily glares at Halite[tablet] “the Wrath of the Krakenoïd Bod will be Terrible!” 16:52:52 s/Bod/Bot/ 16:53:06 -!- metasepia has joined. 16:53:11 Build it in Fenentanasia 16:53:19 -I mean, Haskell 16:53:20 I want a Krakenoid bod... 16:53:49 * boily swings his usual, standardised maple bat over at Halite[tablet] *SCHMWHACK* 16:54:16 `pastlogs maple 16:54:18 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 16:54:23 `pastlog maple 16:54:24 Febrndnasoa, hertrmasia gens sips meeeesus geesun schmesian whesiak 16:54:38 `words 10 16:54:43 jkfficia congonop diaphing 201310 cytoian ication xirn samg gosemple affendative 16:54:51 see, no difference 16:54:54 No output. 16:55:04 `pastelog maple 16:55:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15093 16:56:21 Pegendenasia olfolonsia 73, derisia mazenipooian jxjjchdhcdks do sk jci kid md me KFC kv... Zzzzzzzz 16:57:35 Halite[tablet]: we already have one HackEgo instance in here, we don't need another 16:57:36 -!- quintopia has joined. 16:59:29 Meow 17:00:21 good noily 17:03:26 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/2013102400]). 17:04:50 good what-happened-to-the-/topic morning! <-- it's a new begunning! 17:05:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:06:29 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 17:15:49 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:15:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Etc.). 17:16:43 begin, began, begun, be gone! 17:18:16 but i'm still here 17:24:06 -!- ^v has joined. 17:26:18 -!- augur has changed nick to augur___________. 17:26:43 -!- augur___________ has changed nick to augurrrrrrrrrrrr. 17:26:45 -!- augurrrrrrrrrrrr has changed nick to augur. 17:30:03 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:32:05 -!- ^v has joined. 17:41:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:49:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:53:17 good quinfternoopia. 17:56:09 hooooooow's it goin? 18:01:25 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:02:17 spent the weekend in Québec City. eating shrimp crackers. not enough caffeine in my body. Taneb just joined. and I can finally print! (apparently, an old and forgotten misconfiguration attempt screwed up avahi and cups.) 18:02:53 :O 18:03:05 Are shrimp crackers like prawn crackers? 18:04:15 <^v> that time when you get a shiny new 1TB HDD and the estimated time remaining for all your crap to copy is 2 days 18:05:04 hmm i need to eat something 18:05:14 * ^v eats quintopia a potato 18:05:48 hi ^v 18:06:14 <^v> i expected a ReLcOmE 18:06:34 <^v> because, every other time ive been here i got one 18:06:41 Taneb: they were out of the usual stuff when I had a sudden urge to buy some, so I had to resign myself over shrimp crackers. 18:07:06 (they are of a generic French fries shape, and taste like shrimp, and are of the crunchy persuasion, so all is not lost.) 18:07:17 `ReLcOmE ^v 18:07:21 ​^v: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: . (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 18:07:32 <^v> that exists? 18:07:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:07:40 I'm as surprised as you. 18:07:44 <^v> i only thought there was relcome and WeLcOmE 18:07:46 ^v: but i never got one, so it's unfair for you to get so many 18:08:02 <^v> `UnRelCoMe quintopia 18:08:03 ^v: remember, this is the Land of the Chimæric Relcomes! 18:08:04 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: UnRelCoMe: not found 18:08:25 * boily ponders if he can mail a potato through to USPS... 18:08:54 boily: what's going down for christmas? 18:09:00 <^v> you can count on windows to fail at symbolic links 18:10:00 `cat bin/ReLcOmE 18:10:01 WeLcOmE "$*" | rainwords 18:10:06 naturally 18:10:13 `cat bin/WeLcOmE 18:10:14 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | CaT 18:10:26 `cat bin/CaT 18:10:27 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ sys.stdout.write ((lambda s: "".join([(s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(open("/dev/stdin").read())) 18:10:37 <^v> eww python 18:11:11 python is the most bestest PL evaaaaaaaaaar! 18:11:33 -!- Bike has joined. 18:11:44 quintopia: the flow of the Fleuve St-Laurent. I'm disappearing in a land far, far away, where the Family Resides and the Food is Plenty. 18:12:07 boily: sounds wonderful 18:12:15 boily: to be so far from your parents i mean 18:13:04 I only live about 250 km away from where they live, and I spend the weekend there once about every 2~3 weeks. 18:13:50 `run ^.^ 18:13:52 bash: ^.^: command not found 18:13:58 boily: that's far enough i think 18:14:16 more than an hour away is usually sufficient 18:14:17 quintopia: I could have moved to Toronto. that would have been far. 18:14:19 `run ln -s /bin/cat /bin/^.^ 18:14:20 ln: creating symbolic link `/bin/^.^': Read-only file system 18:14:27 (there, or Ottawa. the horror!) 18:14:32 aww, but makes sense :) 18:14:52 boily: you can move here. i don't care. what do you do again? 18:15:25 `run echo -e '#!/bin/sh\ncat $@' >bin/^.^ 18:15:29 No output. 18:15:43 quintopia: free software consultant :D 18:15:50 `run chmod 0755 bin/^.^ 18:15:53 No output. 18:15:57 boily: independent? 18:16:02 int-e: the sense, it was made. 18:16:06 ^.^ 18:16:12 `run ^.^ /bin/^.^ 18:16:14 cat: /bin/^.^: No such file or directory 18:16:14 owait 18:16:19 quintopia: no, for http://www.savoirfairelinux.com// 18:16:22 `run ^.^ bin/^.^ 18:16:23 ​#!/bin/sh \ cat $@ 18:16:33 boily: I see my mistake. 18:16:48 ah. explains your hostname :P 18:17:01 `^.^ 18:17:32 No output. 18:17:42 fizzie: shouldn't fungot have a .^ command? 18:17:42 quintopia: it's an irc client 18:17:59 ... 18:18:11 * boily backs away very, very slowly from the Sentient Fungot 18:18:52 <^v> http://i.imgur.com/3b4TIP6.png 18:19:01 * ^v claps for windows failing at symlinks 18:19:20 boily: how hard do you work in a given week 18:19:22 He hasn't answered to His Name. He has spotted me. I have to flee. even Canadia won't protect me anymore. 18:20:03 quintopia: 37.5 hours. 18:20:18 boily: that's how much time. how hard? 18:21:12 how do you measure that? coffee pots per hour? 18:21:17 quintopia: eh... depends on the project. sometimes you have to sprint through urgent bugs and corrections when a Demonstration looms over, but usually it's pretty smooth. 18:22:08 int-e: we don't need no measures. we've got _subjectivity_! 18:22:12 int-e: I'm not drinking no coffee anymore here. the thing that prepares coffee is... uhm. well. the coffee it produces is... 18:22:16 * boily blertches 18:22:55 int-e: I have my own tea stash. it's much better, and during lunch we usually stop at one of the nearby cafés to grab an espresso. 18:23:39 boily: how are the chickens today 18:24:03 quintopia: frozen. 18:24:06 ~metar CYUL 18:24:06 CYUL 021800Z 05006KT 7SM FEW018 OVC090 M00/M02 A2995 RMK SC2AC6 SLP143 18:24:11 yup. frozen. 18:25:37 and speaking of chicken, I have to do a pad thai, and some hot & sour soup, and 皮蛋瘦肉粥. 18:25:47 have fun 18:26:50 I think I may be a little bit food obsessed... 18:29:32 Mmm.. pad thai.. 18:35:23 -!- carado has joined. 18:45:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:45:42 mrhmouse: http://youtu.be/CeZlih4DDNg 18:49:35 boily: I can't view YouTube at work :( Well. I _can_, but I shouldn't. 18:52:28 mwah ah ah. be Tempted by the Video. abandon productivity! 18:54:37 `ord \ 18:54:39 92 18:54:45 `ord ` 18:54:46 96 18:55:51 fungot: what is lambdabot's @src? 18:55:51 boily: i'd get this: fnord 18:56:20 lambdabot: what is fungot's @src? 18:56:20 shachaf: s/ even/ not fnord 18:57:33 Hi 18:57:42 `ello Slereah 18:57:44 Slereahello 18:57:49 fungot: what's going on 18:57:49 shachaf: but... you've got terminal socket. fnord". haven't got time to night though. i don't 18:58:08 i've got terminal socket :'( 18:58:11 shachaf, fungot doesn't have time tonight. he doesn't. 18:58:11 mrhmouse: did you write the first two, then the window handle will be released?) not cope with unicode. 18:58:13 fungot: how long do i have 18:58:13 shachaf: i wonder if that was actually the one in my box. works like a charm :) 18:58:29 mrhmouse: since when is fungot a "he" 18:58:29 shachaf: i feel like i need something to take their experience into account. 18:58:48 shachaf: I just alternate gender pronouns when referring to her 18:59:14 fungot is too friendly to be called "it".. I can't bring myself to do it 18:59:15 mrhmouse: such as? i maintain my own proxy, and i was just about to say " an action producing something of this type 19:01:35 lambdabot is a her, I think. what is fungot's sexual identity? 19:01:35 boily: since sparc assembly is so unreadable. it basically just reads /dev/ misc/ fnord my homemade porn fnord think its nice:). 19:02:08 fizzie: your bot is dirty. most verily dirty. 19:02:27 fungot: yo, dawg 19:02:28 shachaf: it's something like 4e) and fnord ( one less map)" at the start of the file 19:02:34 fungot: yawg 19:02:34 shachaf: the idea of clean fnord semantics, and occasionally do the equivalent of trick or treating though. in the end 19:02:39 ^style 19:02:39 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 19:02:46 ^style qwantz 19:02:47 Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) 19:02:55 fungot: hi 19:02:56 shachaf: don't i know you from somewhere? but, i mean, a male, i can be one of those people are going to think you're a pedophile, and he's on a friggin' universe. and then there'll be a day shortly afterwards when we can simulate universe on our cell, because there'd have been no controversy. 19:03:09 fungot: do you like Tom Waits? 19:03:09 mrhmouse: t-rex, i have big news the other! 19:03:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:04:41 -!- Bike has joined. 19:07:15 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:41:37 -!- muskrat has joined. 19:44:32 does finding a longest path in a graph take about as long as finding the shortest one? 19:45:58 oh. no. it's np-hard. oops. 19:46:18 -!- muskrat has quit (Client Quit). 19:46:29 oh, but the question i got was a DAG which puts the time down to linear, baller 19:58:06 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:03:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:10:50 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:11:54 -!- yorick has joined. 20:15:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:17:09 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_clicks aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! 20:17:30 hi boily 20:17:41 hi quintopia 20:17:53 everything is fine here. I am not terrified by phonemes. I am sane. 20:18:15 (just entered several hundred lines of XML. my brain hurts more than my fingers, strangely.) 20:18:18 good 20:18:24 so 20:18:26 um 20:18:33 yes? 20:18:33 got any esolang ideas 20:18:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:18:49 i ask because i have more than i can record 20:19:00 so 20:19:01 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:19:04 if you want some 20:19:14 i'll describe them and let you take credit 20:19:45 anything that can take my mind off XML is good. 20:20:31 so this first idea is an xml-based language... 20:20:53 * boily oils and shines his mapole... 20:21:27 at least I have tea. tea is good. 20:21:41 (and an endless playlist of touhou tunes on youtube.) 20:22:02 oh you are a touhou music fan 20:22:06 interesting 20:24:25 I got the whole tlmc torrent since... uhm... 2007~8. proudly seeding ever since! 20:25:37 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:25:53 -!- Bike has joined. 20:26:20 and the French word of the day... «effeuilleuse», also known as “stripteaser”. 20:26:50 (their closing down the few remaining red light establishements in Montréal, and cleaning up the place. http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/immobilier/201312/02/01-4716773-un-immeuble-de-160-millions-au-coin-st-laurent-et-ste-catherine.php ) 20:27:08 s'eir'ey\'re' 20:27:49 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:27:50 -!- b_jonas_ has joined. 20:28:33 How does the Axiom of Regularity deal with sets like {1,2} 20:28:54 um 20:29:01 it doesn't have to? 20:29:15 that set only contains 1,2, not itself 20:29:45 quintopia, according to the Wikipedia page that is a result of Regularity, not the axiom itself 20:29:54 " every non-empty set A contains an element that is disjoint from A." 20:29:55 -!- b_jonas_ has changed nick to b_jonas. 20:30:48 Taneb: sure. the axiom of regularity is a rule for ruling out the existence of some sets, not for guaranteeing the existence of any set 20:30:55 note first that {1,2} = {{{}},{{},{{}}}} 20:31:05 Phantom_Hoover, ooh, that's cunning 20:31:16 Also that helps a lot 20:31:20 `thanks Phantom_Hoover 20:31:21 Thanks, Phantom_Hoover. Thantom_Hoover. 20:31:37 i'm not sure how that helped :P 20:31:45 hmm, these touhou games have weird names 20:32:30 olsner, like "touhou" :P 20:32:58 boily: does that word literally translate to "defoliator"? 20:33:03 i like it :D 20:33:39 this is because people who like japanese things are somehow able to put up with ridiculously awkward translations 20:33:39 putting strippers in the same category as agent orange=win 20:34:02 yes, in the same sense that in english we have paint strippers 20:34:42 Phantom_Hoover, cf. Problem Sleuth? 20:34:57 i don't remember but probably 20:35:45 Phantom_Hoover: agent orange isn't really a paint stripper. the french version is more awesome. 20:35:53 Taneb: no, it seems touhou is not the name of any game, but the collective name for loads of touhou games 20:35:58 (afaik they're all essentially the same game though) 20:36:13 Phantom_Hoover, http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=001183 20:39:15 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:44:15 to be fair, agent orange isn't orange, either. 20:45:34 neither is mr orange, iirc 20:46:26 speaking of which i never got a very good answer for a symbol that reminds people of me 20:46:29 quintopia: it does :D 20:46:37 (re. the sexy efoliating.) 20:46:47 boily: what's a good noun to associate with me 20:47:12 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:47:32 package, because I still remember the creativity and reluctance of the wrapping I received :D 20:47:52 (I mean, I had to forcefully apply my pocket knife onto the various layers of tape.) 20:47:57 ! 20:48:02 I have a picture of the thing! 20:48:11 the picture, let me share you it. 20:48:16 boily: did you translate the back of the postcard? :D 20:48:26 ... 20:48:31 not yet. I'll have it translated tonight. 20:49:05 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/2013-11-25%2017.47.53.jpg 20:49:45 aw it got crushed in the mail 20:50:11 I thing USPS retaped it. that's why I had some troubles with it. all the more satisfying to pry open! 20:50:25 but it shouldn't have been hard to unwrap. just cut enough tape to separate the lid from the box 20:53:30 boily: did my ziplocks stay inflated? 20:54:43 how about a stereotypical giftbox with a mustache for a bow 20:56:12 -!- conehead has joined. 20:56:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:57:40 quintopia: oh, that's what the ziplocs were for! I was quite puzzled. 20:58:23 boily: i take it that's a no. must have deflated at low pressure in the air 20:58:52 i was trying to keep things from sliding around and i had no bubble wrap. i didn't want the cookies to get crumby 21:04:56 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:18:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 2013-12-03: 17:46:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:46:47 -!- glogbot has joined. 17:46:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:46:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:46:59 `relcome HackEgo 17:47:06 ​HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:47:28 as the Gregor leaves for warmer sunsets, in come the Future of Botkind. 17:47:33 fizzie: then that message is stored in a massive list (in memory). I'm splitting on spaces ahead of time because I'm currently transitioning between repeating messages and munging them 17:47:52 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:47:55 what does glogbot do? 17:47:58 `ello Gregor 17:48:00 Gregellor 17:48:39 int-e: it is a glogging bot. it glogs. 17:48:41 ~duck glog 17:48:42 --- No relevant information 17:49:17 * boily kicks ddg in the uncomedic untiming. 17:50:00 brutal 17:50:03 -!- glogbackup has joined. 17:50:48 probably something related to glögg, perhaps. 17:51:36 boily: are you using their keyless API? 17:52:28 boily: probably not.. glögg is good though 17:53:12 mrhmouse: no key in my code. 17:53:18 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:53:44 boily: that's probably why; I think they limit their results unless you're using the API that requires a key 17:54:12 boily: I use the same API for a different bot (on a different channel, on a different server..) to look up definitions 17:54:58 olsner: I saw a recipe for that the other day on /r/food. it seems quite a bit dangerous. 17:55:07 dangerous? how so? 17:55:53 -!- Bike has joined. 17:55:54 mrhmouse: I have to refactor and polish my code for the Real Metasepia. I had the module scrutinized by the Prying Eyes of the people who know how to Haskell correctly here. 17:56:12 olsner: warm. sugar. lots of alcohol. almonds! 17:56:42 and after you polish the code, you'll finnish it? 17:56:44 boily: I would learn how to Haskell correctly, but Haskell hates tabs and I hate spaces 17:57:52 olsner: ... 17:58:21 mrhmouse: tabs are evil. embrace the way of the space! 18:01:20 that's also why I gave up on OCaml & F#.. unless I use the silly ;; I can't use tabs 18:02:16 boily: fwiw it's usually drunk in very small cups and one batch will be shared with a lot of people 18:02:21 if your sole reason for not learning a language is because it's maybe slightly awkward to indent the way you're used to then I think I'm even more sick of nerds than I was yesterday 18:02:33 it's also approx. the same strength as plain wine 18:02:53 elliott: do you need me to take you to the hospital. 18:02:57 elliott: that's not my sole reason. I don't have a pressing reason _to_ learn those outside of curiousity 18:04:20 olsner: oh. hmm... we are in December, and I'll be spending the holidays at my parents... and they know of my habit to make them try new liquids. 18:04:27 elliott: there are plenty of languages around these days to take my pick.. Those languages are interesting, but others were more comfortable to use. 18:04:29 mwah ah ah. MUAH AH AH AH AH AH AH! 18:04:41 there is also non-layout syntax and the simple expedient of writing your code so that the interpretation of tab as spaces-to-mod-8 (or is it just 8-spaces? I forget) is never relevant -- which should be what you're doing anyway, since there's no point to use tabs if you're going to do indentation-width-dependent alignment 18:04:43 boily: please don't kill anybody 18:05:17 It's the glöggeason. 18:05:36 -!- ^v has joined. 18:06:17 the more i get comfortable with verilog the more i hate it, it's amazing 18:06:24 mrhmouse: they already went through mate, turkish coffee, milk tea, chaï... I haven't got to kombucha yet. 18:08:00 elliott: I'm not up for inputting tabs as spaces and then magically erasing 8 spaces when I press backspace. 18:08:23 elliott: now, I could very easily replace tabs in my code with 8 spaces _before_ passing it to Haskell 18:08:23 i'm too sleepy to make a funny face 18:08:35 you deserve it though 18:08:42 editors doing things when you press keys: ~magic~ 18:08:42 Bike: How about... VeriLAB? (MATlog.) 18:08:54 computers: a special kind of fire? magic. 18:09:07 the most evil kind of magic that allows you to work with other people 18:09:22 look I used to be a total tab zealot 18:09:31 what changed your mind? 18:09:36 i'm really disappointed that 'tab zealot' is a concept. 18:09:44 I realised life is meaningless but especially so if you give the slightest shit about any of this 18:09:49 I'm all for spaces iff I can get one feature: I like a tab width of 2 18:10:09 i used to be a tab zealot but now i prefer windows 18:10:11 * boily shoots fpgas at fizzie 18:10:24 it's just easier for me to read. that's it. well, that, and I know that my team mates _don't_ like a tab width of 2 18:10:26 like, i mean, i expected more out of life. nobody told me, on exiting the womb, that i would add 'tab zealot' to my conceptual repertoire in a few years. 18:10:52 tabs can be displayed at different widths on different machines. this is the _only_ reason I prefer them. 18:11:01 mrhmouse.................... 18:11:12 shachaf? 18:11:40 i'm a thinking being. i can conceptualize so many things. and now 'tab zealot' is in there. that concept just drags down my entire ability to think and categorize observed entities, by mere association. 18:11:44 please see elliott's previous statement 18:12:23 Bike: are you a space zealot? 18:12:45 are you a train zealot 18:12:48 i'm a not-conceptualizing-zealotry-about-fucking-spaces-are-you-fucking-joking zealot 18:13:01 TRAAAAAINS 18:14:05 see train zealotry i could get behind, that has some kind of import. 18:14:51 #cslounge-trains 18:20:52 okie dokie then... elliott: when you say non-layout syntax, do you mean ML or Haskell? I remember seeing ML had one, but it's been a while since I've looked at Haskell.. 18:21:21 if you mean Haskell, I'll have to give it another look-over 18:22:50 @ask ais523 does verilog let you paramaterize bus width of inputs because wtf verilog 18:22:51 it is @ask right 18:22:51 @help 18:22:51 help 18:22:51 Consider it noted. 18:22:51 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 18:22:52 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:23:08 -!- Bike has joined. 18:23:31 @ask ais523 does vhdl let you paramaterize bus widths 18:23:31 Consider it noted. 18:24:04 Bike: you must have missed it due to connection issues, but lambdabot got your first @ask 18:24:43 elliott: nevermind, I've found what you meant about Haskell. The material I was reading before didn't mention the use of curly braces. Thanks :D 18:24:47 @tell ais523 sorry, ignore the verilog ask 18:24:48 Consider it noted. 18:39:13 @tell @tell @tell 18:39:13 Consider it noted. 18:39:18 heh. 18:39:33 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:40:46 Does anybody know how long lambdabot stores a @tell before discarding it? 18:46:26 lambdabot knows, I hope 18:47:23 @ask 18:47:23 Who should I ask? 18:47:29 @ask lambdabot do you know? 18:47:30 Nice try ;) 18:47:42 fungot: do you know what the lambdabot says? 18:47:42 boily: with that he struck the note in question. " do you observe?" ( such was the phrase with which the two fnord in the wood-- here's fnord shawl being blown away!'" 18:47:50 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:48:04 @v 18:48:04 "\"" 18:49:00 olsner: @v? 18:49:17 @help v 18:49:17 let v = show v in v 18:49:22 obviously 18:49:25 @v 18:49:25 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\" 18:50:01 @help yhjul 18:50:01 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 18:50:04 @yhjul 18:50:04 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\" 18:50:28 ... 18:50:36 > map length . group $ fix show 18:50:39 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 18:50:45 > map length . group $ fix show 18:50:49 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 18:50:50 ~eval map length . group $ fix show 18:50:53 Error (1): 18:50:54 ~eval map length . group $ fix show 18:50:56 Error (1): 18:51:42 > 1 18:51:43 1 18:51:53 ~eval 1 18:51:54 1 18:51:56 oh, wait 18:52:06 > take 10 . map length . group $ fix show 18:52:07 [1,1,1,3,1,7,1,15,1,31] 18:52:30 @help yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 18:52:31 V RETURNS! 18:52:36 it *is* running out of time, it'll never be able to produce the first 1024 characters of that list. 18:52:49 -!- realzies has joined. 18:52:50 phew 18:52:52 what the fungot is an yhjul and all that sort of thing... 18:52:52 boily: and minnie wound up the fnord, and was still. the professor bowed, but he didn't smile this time. 18:53:31 @help yhjulpouletpouletpoulet 18:53:31 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 18:53:37 yhjul is just a small prefix of yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 18:53:37 @yhjulpouletpouletpoulet 18:53:38 Unknown command, try @list 18:53:49 it was as far as I could remember 18:54:14 you mean there is sense under that linenoise? 18:54:40 there may be an inside joke in there 18:55:06 (lambdabot used to generate random function names, for example; yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw may have been one of those) 18:55:07 according to what I heard it's just the random name that v was renamed to 18:57:13 -!- muskrat has joined. 19:01:27 fungot yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw fnord 19:01:27 olsner: " the house, to meet once more after so many years, you see. no repetition!" 19:01:38 -!- tertu has joined. 19:02:29 did fungot just use balanced quotation marks? 19:02:29 mrhmouse: " a conspiracy! it's so confusing to have some of them wholesome, and some bad-tempered ones have green eyes, and they had nothing more to say 19:04:59 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:05:17 probably a 50% chance it was unbalanced before and simply stayed unbalanced after that 19:14:52 -!- ruddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:15:11 -!- ruddy has joined. 19:23:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:35:45 g'day ruddy 19:35:45 FireFly ♪ hey FireFly ♪ 19:37:00 bonjour ruddy 19:37:00 bonjour boily ♪ hey boily 19:38:47 ruddy, you're quite musical this evening... 19:38:48 quite possibly car quite not quite true not quite mrhmouse mrhmouse, mrhmouse 19:39:03 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 19:39:25 -!- ^v has joined. 19:39:45 A friend’s dog is a cat: https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1466131_10202269595998086_1354169662_n.jpg 19:40:09 ion, iirc terriers were originally bred as ratting dogs 19:42:55 topologically speaking, dogs and cats are the same animals. 19:44:02 `addquote topologically speaking, dogs and cats are the same animals. 19:44:06 1140) topologically speaking, dogs and cats are the same animals. 19:46:00 ion: the quote, it is PDFed. 19:56:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:59:26 `ello zzo38 19:59:28 zzello38 20:00:36 -!- Bike has joined. 20:02:08 `elly boily 20:02:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: elly: not found 20:02:14 `ello boily 20:02:16 belloily 20:08:16 is there a name for the class of languages which are capable of performing only thos computations which halt? 20:08:26 *all and only those 20:08:31 total 20:09:52 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:10:03 thanks that looks right 20:12:42 is there a category on the wiki for total languages 20:13:12 i doubt there are any 20:13:41 well then :D 20:14:12 since you can't really describe /all/ total functions without saying "total functions" basically 20:16:25 cpp is total 20:16:27 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:16:44 PRIMREC is too 20:17:13 we're talking about all total functions, not subsets of them 20:17:20 subsets of that* 20:18:02 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:18:02 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 20:18:02 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:18:22 you mean all computable total functions 20:18:39 well, yeah. 20:39:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:43:00 woah 21:34:04 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:37:15 -!- yorick has joined. 21:41:27 grr, how to examine a location like %fs:0x70 in GDB 21:43:23 do i have to make the program call arch_prctl(ARCH_GET_FS, &somewhere) 21:43:32 what a tremendous pain in the ass 21:43:47 isn't fs listed in the registers list? 21:45:05 yeah but the value there is a segment selector 21:45:24 Fiora, help I have pre-ordered the Namco dating sim Hussie is making 21:45:33 Taneb: oh gosh, it's /buyable/ now? 21:45:35 to get the base address of that segment you'd need to look at the LDT/GDT and/or the 64-bit FS base MSR (which is what arch_prctl accesses) 21:45:41 Taneb: does it have Tales characters yet 21:45:49 Taneb: are you going to date the spaceship 21:45:52 Fiora, I think it'll be F2P with purchasable characters 21:45:57 is the FS base MSR updated when loading fs from a descriptor? 21:45:57 Bike, totes 21:46:01 Taneb: good man 21:46:08 kmc: rdfsbase instruction? (it's kinda new) 21:46:11 olsner: I'm not sure 21:46:27 Fiora: woah, did not know about that one 21:46:37 Taneb: yeah, I'm just like, I remember new characters being announced and stuff and most being like "pac man" or something 21:46:42 but then like. terezi shows up or something ??? 21:46:46 Fiora, no Tales characters, no Pac Man either 21:46:47 and it's namco so they might have tales characters 21:46:55 :< 21:47:02 rdfsbase is probably only available in supervisor mode and in unreleased processors 21:47:10 oh, it's privileged only? 21:47:14 I think there are either going to be more characters announced or secret characters 21:47:17 Taneb, Fiora: as seemingly you are dating sim players, and that I'm kinda intrigued by the genre, what would be a good starting point? (something that can preferably run on linux and/or android without too much hassle.) 21:47:21 no idea, but it might be 21:47:28 boily, I'm not a dating sim player 21:47:55 Taneb: re. “I have pre-ordered the Namco dating sim”, what are you then? 21:48:05 boily: I guess I'd start by distinguishing "dating sim" (e.g. maybe magical diary, tokimeki memorial?) from "visual novel" (e.g. ever17)? 21:48:08 This will be my first foree (however you spell that) into the genre 21:48:12 pre-orderer but not player then? 21:48:13 they're often-confused 21:48:22 or taneb's just getting it because of the huss. 21:48:25 le 21:48:25 Fiora: good point. 21:48:29 why do people do this :'( http://kuznero.com/2013/12/03/what-is-a-monad/ 21:48:45 for visual novels you probably want to pick between bishoujo games or otome games (or non-romance games, there's some of those too) 21:48:50 wow look at all those smiley faces. 21:48:54 -!- evalj has joined. 21:48:57 I'll be also exploring the Offered Games for my Ouya. I hope there's at least one I like :) 21:49:07 shachaf: have you considered writing a parody blog entry about "what is a quadrilateral" or something in the same tone 21:49:20 Bike: no but imo you should do it 21:49:28 i just might 21:49:53 Fiora: I ain't romancing no otome. 21:50:02 too bad it would be funny to an estimated zero percent of the population 21:50:12 shachaf: ;_; 21:50:18 boily hates maidens with a burning passion 21:50:57 it has a nice description of curring [sic] too 21:51:09 is it curring complete 21:51:30 shachaf: I hurt. 21:51:33 I guess for dating sims I liked magical diary and RE:Alistair++ 21:51:58 I played the fan translation (I think?) of tokimeki memorial girls' side but it felt kind of grindy and I didn't quite get the mechanics that well 21:52:00 Bike: only if there's a kinship between the protagonist and the maiden in question. 21:52:07 I guess persona counts as a dating sim in a terribly loose way?? 21:52:09 kmc: something something curring-thurth 21:52:22 curring-thurth cheeses? 21:52:59 Fiora: well, people are now playing roguelikelikes, so maybe persona is a dating sim sim? 21:53:03 xD 21:53:14 "roguelikelike" is the best word 21:53:37 what the hell is a roguelikelike? 21:53:41 @karma RE:Alistair 21:53:42 RE:Alistair has a karma of 1 21:53:52 I've heard it referred to for things like FTL? 21:53:52 myname: something that has procedural generation and permadeath. 21:53:52 or, what is a roguelikelike like? 21:54:00 which are like, like a roguelike, but don't have turn based ness and stuff 21:54:03 boily: huh? 21:54:08 boily: explain 21:54:23 for non-romance-focused visual novels I'd recommend maybe 999, virtue's last reward, ever17, analogue/hate plus, umineko, maybeish? 21:54:25 myname: bindings of isaac, FTL, stuff like that. minecraft in hardcore mode, too. 21:54:32 oh, and remember11 I guess 21:54:35 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:54:50 i was going to make a joke about grinding on a date but i was distracted by the question of how the hell a dating sim involves leveling 21:54:53 Fiora: sadly, I have to leave and disappear in the Cold World. I'll be browsing the logs tomorrow morning. 21:55:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SIMULATED CHICKEN!). 21:55:08 (there are very few non-romance focused visual novels <.< and even fewer translated) 21:55:10 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:16 boily: i don't quite get it, but i think i may be okay with it 21:55:29 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:55:31 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:09:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:10:37 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:10:41 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 22:11:39 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 22:11:40 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:12:11 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 22:31:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:39:56 do i have to put >/dev/null before a & or what 22:43:19 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 22:45:30 i've man, they so should call bmp the "prime material interesting interesting interesting interesting <-- i'm with ruddy 22:45:33 i've man, they so should call bmp man, they so should call bmp the interesting 22:46:22 Preeeetty sure ruddy is drunk. 22:46:24 sure 22:46:35 and admitting it too 22:47:11 Who/what is ruddy 22:47:12 Taneb ♪ hey Taneb ♪ 22:47:12 mrhmouse: hm ruddy's response to someone quoting them is a little predictable 22:47:14 who's i would want explicit caching and pipelining so the internet fight or fight response hm 22:47:40 internet fight or fight response, sounds about right 22:47:56 oerjan: only because its bank of messages isn't very large right now 22:48:08 OKAY 22:48:13 ruddy is also musical lately.. I wonder who taught it that 22:48:16 probably i wonder i wonder if that ... i wonder if mrhmouse liked it 22:48:24 I did like it, ruddy. Thank you. 22:48:26 thank you? i like you. (and people like you. thank you.) we believe you. thank you, mrhmouse 22:49:02 mrhmouse: i think boily is the musical one around here. 22:49:26 @ask boily sing me a song 22:49:26 Consider it noted. 22:49:54 `pastelogs ♪ 22:50:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13929 22:50:37 Taneb: to answer your question - ruddy is a chatterbot 22:50:39 ah, here's the chatterbot mathematical question tough question good question that does not answer my question 22:51:37 Taneb: a drunk chatterbot 22:52:24 What is the chatterbot equivalent of alcohol? 22:52:38 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:54:04 I'm not sure. ruddy: what is the chatterbot equivalent of alcohol? 22:54:07 a drunk ah, here's the chatterbot now. looks like a shitty chatterbot er, mrhmouse: lol, yeah sure. 22:54:14 a chat with parry 22:54:27 Bike: I thought Parry was actually decent? 22:54:32 -!- _46bit has changed nick to _47bit. 22:55:13 mrhmouse, what language is ruddy written in? 22:55:14 also, won't people be offended if i put religious texts in? ruddy, you made Taneb, right? ruddy, Taneb: you're both cute imo Taneb, meat ruddy. ruddy, this is Taneb. some people here tried matchmaking Taneb and ruddy, with no avail. 22:55:52 Taneb: CoffeeScript. 22:56:22 It was just a side project that I decided to bring into the channel one day.. it's mostly hacked together 22:59:27 ruddy: hey mezzacotta's blathering includes the book of mormon... 22:59:29 hey ... keyboard to that mobile device. hey people hey oerjan hey oerjan hey there oerjan 22:59:39 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:59:50 mrhmouse, what texts is is trained on? 22:59:53 ruddy: hej hej hemskt mycket hej 23:00:32 Taneb: this chatroom only. 23:00:47 oerjan: if it can't find a suitable response, it stays silent. 23:00:48 mrhmouse: i think ruddy is a bit weak on swedish 23:00:51 is occasionally identity, and weak tables. i'm not that is a small city by swedish measurements. fun fact: "fyllo" is swedish slang for "drunk" hm doesn't swedish have a word like "kuldegrader" 23:02:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:04:07 boily: I would learn how to Haskell correctly, but Haskell hates tabs and I hate spaces <-- you _can_ use tabs in haskell, it's just not recommended 23:04:43 because it can mess up if editors aren't set to the official "indents to next multiple of 8 column" interpretation 23:05:19 -!- _47bit has changed nick to _46bit. 23:06:07 (you _can_ use it even without that, but then you need to be sure only to start blocks at the beginning of lines) 23:07:01 you can also go the zzo38 way and use explicit braces. 23:07:20 oerjan: if I decide to revisit Haskell, I'll be using explicit braces 23:07:41 -!- ^v has joined. 23:07:48 mrhmouse: YOU'LL STILL BE A WEIRDO THOUGH 23:08:00 hth 23:08:09 I'm okay with that :P also I don't know this hth thing :I 23:08:14 ` 23:08:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 23:08:18 `? hth 23:08:20 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 23:08:32 i hope that cleared it up 23:08:43 -!- muskrat has joined. 23:08:45 wonderfully 23:09:06 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:10:20 There are a few people who use explicit braces in Haskell, I am not the only one and neither are you. It isn't the most common way but it is OK; it is not a problem to use explicit braces. However, I do have one recommendation, which is to not use explicit and implicit format in the same file. 23:11:07 zzo38: I would like to think that's common sense 23:11:48 but thank you for the heads up. anything to look out for with the explicit-braces approach? 23:12:50 i think it has fewer gotchas than the implicit one, for sure 23:12:56 mrhmouse: I expect the way of things working is more obvious when explicit-braces are used. 23:13:35 zzo38: I should hope so. A big turn-off from Haskell initially was that I got very difficult to debug error messages when I tried coding using tabs and layout style 23:14:04 zzo38: one exception: it _might_ occasionally be nice to use explicit ; even if you don't use explicit {}. well, maybe. 23:14:28 since you can then fit more things on one line. 23:15:06 mrhmouse: Well, one more thing: If you are using explicit-braces, you also need the explicit "module" declaration (which is a good idea anyways, though) 23:15:14 I gotta run.. dinner plans. @tell me any other gotchas if you think of them 23:15:22 don't teach ruddy terrible things 23:15:23 heading out. don't paris is terrible hehhhhh, teach just described parameters in verilog modules as "like c #defines" i think he meant he wanted me to teach him watching starcraft don't worry, they're all terrible 23:15:59 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:18:23 zzo38: i don't think anything actually _breaks_ if you forget the explicit module declaration, does it? oh hm i guess if you put things on the beginning of the line that aren't just after a ; 23:18:46 but would you do that assuming you are still indenting things normally 23:18:53 -!- Bike has joined. 23:25:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:32:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:32:52 hm these apples are marked with the german place name südtirol, which is in italy. 23:32:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:33:06 *munch* 23:36:13 -!- conehead has joined. 23:38:34 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:40:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:45:50 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:51:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:51:33 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:54:05 -!- Oj742 has joined. 23:55:57 -!- muskrat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:09 -!- muskrat has joined. 23:57:18 oerjan: It has the possibility to break if you omit the module declaration, so I always include it anyways just in case (and because having a module declaration is a good idea in general, too) 2013-12-04: 00:07:13 -!- ^v has joined. 00:09:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:09:59 i wonder if i can convince the prof that seeing what an hdl system synthesizes to on the fpga would be educational 00:10:25 HDL system? 00:10:47 I think it would be helpful to see such things 00:11:02 Fiora: i was going to say 'verilog program' but that's not really a thing 00:11:32 i just feel like complaining since xilinx gives me a warning that so and so is incompatible with my board but doesn't tell me what exactly is incompatible 00:12:59 ah 00:15:30 but hey, i turned a monitor red. i am a god. 00:18:57 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:20:34 hooray 00:20:51 vga is surprisingly simple to understand even though i'm still terrible at it. 00:21:24 there's something amusing about running a fancy-ass flatscreen monitor with a specification designed for cathode ray guns 00:21:47 (i could call them tubes, but guns are cooler) 00:22:23 I am also using a flatscreen monitor with VGA 00:22:33 rayguns 00:23:07 The VGA pinout is listed in the book that comes with the monitor, even. 00:23:19 i can turn Bike's monitor red 00:23:24 -!- Oj742 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:23:33 what! 00:23:45 Bike 00:23:51 this project only uses a few of the color pins. amazing three-bit color depth. 00:24:04 that's a lot of bits 00:24:37 This lists "Hot Plug Detect", "SDA", and "SCL" which are things I don't know. 00:24:50 sexay 00:25:07 Now I have drawn a crosshair. 00:25:45 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:25:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:32:33 However, VGA is analog video rather than digital, and has a display data channel. 00:36:25 Bike: make an o-scope 00:36:33 ꙮ-scope 00:36:37 a digital oscilloscope? 00:38:32 presumably 00:40:05 i guess i'd need a dac 00:40:30 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:40:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:40:44 zzo38: actually the specs mention the vga controller on my board works by taking three bits and putting them through some resistor circuits to get the analog value, which is kinda neat 00:41:24 Bike: Yes you can make the converter like that 00:42:14 I have invented Digi-RGB to avoid the complexity and other problems of DisplayPort and so on; Digi-RGB is purely digital and includes red, green, blue, clock, and sync signals. It has video-only; no other signals such as data, configuration, audio, HDCP, hot plug detect, etc. 00:42:33 how many things have you invented 00:42:40 I don't know. 00:44:01 I have not fully written out the connectors/electrical specifications for Digi-RGB (and no computer supports it), but I may do so; someone said he can help with this so I can do it at such a time. Possibly having the electricals and speeds of FireWire. 00:45:40 In case you do need the other features, I have also invented Digi-RGB-Plus, which includes two channels of analog audio, and one data pin going in the opposite direction from the other signals, in 1200,8,N,1 format. The specification explicitly says that either or both device may completely ignore the data and it is still required to work, so it is compatible with Digi-RGB. 00:47:00 I don't know if you think this is a good idea or not, and any other details you have opinions about. 00:47:32 you're an incredible person, zzo. 00:51:08 -!- Sellyme has joined. 00:51:20 Although there are no limits to resolution and clock rate, and standard should be specified for fallback purposes to use with maximum compatibility. The resolution and clock rate of CGA may be used as this fallback specification. 00:51:32 Do you know if DOSBox can emulate composite video mode? 00:52:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:17:01 https://events.ccc.de/congress/2013/Fahrplan/events/5394.html hot damn 01:17:10 "Using the recent BREACH exploit as an example, I will present how to represent attacks and security notions within the Type Theory of Agda." 01:17:25 i have moved on to animating a moving square. worship me 01:18:42 kmc: that sounds good 01:19:06 is it going to be recorded or whatever it is they do 01:22:51 i think so 01:22:57 Bike: is this building to a particular project? 01:23:21 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:25 nah, it's all in the homework 01:23:36 i think i could make pong though 01:23:54 though i have no idea how the angle computation works. 01:24:00 Bike: does that mean you can soon explain what a quadrilateral is? 01:24:10 for bounces? 01:24:15 yeah. 01:24:26 everything you can bounce off in pong is axis-aligned right? 01:24:29 did the original pong just have all perpendicular bounces? i've only played it once 01:24:31 so you just flip the sign on one of the velocities 01:24:38 does that work? hm 01:24:53 i'm used to modern breakouty games where the angle changes based on the paddle speed 01:25:13 imo implement plasma pong 01:25:28 Bike: huh, like proper galilean transformation? 01:25:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHsYjWm8XSI yeah these aren't perpendicular 01:25:52 imo implement hugz 01:26:10 @hug shachaf 01:26:10 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 01:26:13 oerjan: given this is an atari it's probably not proper anything... 01:26:38 but you can see them demonstrate that the reflecting angle varies based on paddle velocity 01:26:43 Bike: i mean if the angle changes based on speed 01:27:08 i mean that it might get near that but it will basically be a hack. 01:27:24 hm 01:27:47 ideally the ball speed should also change 01:27:50 of course it varies, though, how'd i forget. when you play you can try to get really steep angles so that the other player can't predict as well 01:27:59 I think the ball speed also changes. 01:28:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:28:09 although only horizontally, hm 01:28:23 maybe i should just make an atari. 01:29:55 but basically in doing the basic vga stuff i have an hpos and a vpos, and a bonus 60 Hz clock, so i can probably do gamey things reasonably easily. 01:30:09 kmc: this game is weird 01:30:33 it looks like the paddles can emit gas to slow the ball? and you can catch it and burst it out 01:30:44 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:11 maybe you need a 59.94Hz clock instead 01:31:37 guess not for VGA tho 01:31:47 i don't get it. 01:32:18 and actually the frequency will be a bit different i suppose... 01:32:28 NTSC-US is 29.97 fps 01:32:29 > 100000000 / (800 * 525) 01:32:30 238.0952380952381 01:32:33 you had me thinking about TVs 01:32:36 well that's probably wrong 01:32:44 kmc: i have no idea how tvs work ;_; 01:33:01 Bike: i have no idea how tvs work either 01:33:09 as a matter of fact, i don't even own one 01:33:19 well neither do i, but still. 01:33:27 i only have even heard of ntsc and pal from game emulation people. 01:35:03 also, the last part of my assignment is to make a rotating crosshair. i don't think i'm supposed to use trig...i guess i could have each row 'moving' at a different rate or something 01:35:56 hm wouldn't the proper reflection algorithm just be: v = vp-(v-vp) or v = 2*vp - v 01:36:17 why no trig 01:36:20 so you just do the usual thing, then add twice the paddle velocity 01:36:45 kmc: no trig that would involve me writing cosine circuits, anyway 01:36:47 oh wait 01:36:59 maybe they want you to use a lookup table 01:37:13 which is basically the same as hardcoding a set of points around a circle 01:37:21 that's obviously wrong 01:37:29 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 01:38:01 i'd still have to radial to cartesian conversion, wouldn'ti 01:39:47 -!- Sellyme has joined. 01:40:37 -!- ^v has joined. 01:41:41 hm i think i've just convinced myself that the proper galilean transformation is to _not_ let the reflection depend on the speed of the paddle >:) 01:42:06 how boring. 01:42:29 well any speed from the paddle would have to be imparted through friction, right? 01:42:37 or MAGNETS 01:42:45 maybe. 01:42:55 anyway not by a totally elastic collision. 01:43:24 right. 01:44:44 magnets tho 01:45:17 magnets 01:45:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDQOvzFetxs 01:46:12 -!- drlemon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:24 Implement the RGB Famicom PPU with the VGA compatible way. (The Famicom RGB PPU is analog too) 01:50:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:54:58 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:18:14 oerjan: are you talking breakout? 02:18:47 in a general sense yes 02:19:04 oerjan: billiard breakout is the most fun, where you can put some english on it with the paddle and get curved trajectories 02:19:22 wat 02:20:09 -!- Bike has joined. 02:20:30 now that i'm on an analog crusade, next i should figure out how to repair earbuds 02:22:01 headphones tend to have tiny wires that are awful to solder 02:22:51 damn. 02:23:16 zzo38: someone a few years ago implemented enough of a NES to play games, i hear 02:23:20 in my class, i mean 02:23:45 quintopia: i've never seen that, can you give me an example in mindless internet game form 02:24:05 Bike: nope 02:24:17 you bastard 02:27:05 Bike: just write one yourself 02:27:59 i don'tthink i really get the concept 02:28:47 especially given that i've never played billiards. 02:30:17 the concept is that the ball behaves not like a disk with a trajectory, but like an actual 3d ball rotating around an axis 02:30:38 and the paddle can impart torques around an axis perpendicular to the plane of motion 02:30:51 that's all you need to make it possible 02:31:06 correctly implement the physics and everything else handles itself 02:31:18 i'd like to remind you that i am as far as "square moving at constant velocity" 02:32:36 it's never too late to learn to fizzix 02:34:12 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 02:36:23 i want to go to a physics class taught by fizzie 02:36:28 fizzie's fizzix 02:36:39 do you know any fizzix fizzie? 02:36:45 -!- qlkzy has joined. 02:38:57 i fear this idea will fizzle out. 02:42:33 oh phooey 02:46:44 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:49:47 fungot: do you know any fizzix 02:49:47 kmc: " if he's always as sleepy as that," i echoed. " the baron's carriage has come round!" she groaned. " go away, dears!" he exclaimed, holding up one finger. ' i'm not a fnord i don't suppose bruno likes them, either!" 02:50:58 hm, my fpga board apparently doesn't have a serial port 02:51:35 "OK, in the first significant use of comment voting, the readers have voted overwhelmingly, by 41 – 13, that they want the comment voting to disappear. So disappear it has!" 02:51:45 (from aaronson's blog) 02:52:02 oh, you use a... virtual serial over usb 02:52:06 that seems kind of ridiculous. 02:53:00 lots of things have those 02:53:08 Hmm, I think various universal property definitions become much more obvious (in the context of sets) if you restrict "for any object" to mean "for the terminal object" (at least limits etc., or maybe right adjoints) 02:53:10 that's also how you program arduinos 02:53:42 the older ones had USB-to-UART chips but the newer ones just have a second AVR dedicated to this purpose ;P 02:53:49 the former's what i got :V 02:53:58 (what's AVR again) 02:54:00 For example, to define exponentials you might say "an element of B^A should probably correspond to an arrow from A to B, so Hom(A, B) ~ Hom(1, B^A)" 02:55:07 "The idle, no data state is high-voltage, or powered. This is a historic legacy from telegraphy, in which the line is held high to show that the line and transmitter are not damaged." what a beautiful world 02:55:51 Or for products you might say "A product of A and B is an object AxB with two arrows fst/snd to A/B, such that for any a : 1 -> A and b : 1 -> B, there's an (a,b) : 1 -> AxB such that fst . (a,b) = a and snd . (a,b) = b" 02:56:07 And then just s/1/E/ for an arbitrary object E 02:56:38 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 02:58:45 Which is just a fancy arrowy way of talking about global elements, which you then generalize to a generalized element. 03:00:42 kmc: also does this mean there's good software for using a usb port on my computer as a serial port out. 03:01:12 hm, in which case i'd be doing serial to usb to serial. again, life is beautiful 03:07:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:15:34 oerjan: is comment voting where you post two comments with alternate viewpoints, and readers upvote one or the other comment? 03:17:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:18:59 -!- drlemon has joined. 03:19:06 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:19:36 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:19:41 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 03:19:54 -!- Sellyme has joined. 03:20:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:20:55 -!- realzies has joined. 03:21:39 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:23:12 quintopia: from what i remember from my previous visit, it was just an upvote/downvote system like reddit and the like 03:23:33 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:23:35 (also the css was ugly as hell, which i think i mentioned back then) 03:24:26 saw this today http://i.imgur.com/ojwJZ2H.jpg 03:24:27 *mentioned here 03:24:38 looks like a tree grew around this power line and then they cut off the part above and below the line 03:25:08 oh 03:25:15 cyborg trees 03:33:33 every time i share a jpg online i worry that my phone has embedded in the EXIF information about my GPS location and bank account and number of sex partners 03:33:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:34:40 Are there foot-pedals that can attach to a computer like a keyboard and will function as media control keys? 03:34:47 yes 03:34:51 you can buy USB foot pedals on ebay 03:35:14 also the Kinesis Advantage has a foot pedal accessory, and you can bind them to any key on the keyboard 03:35:22 (although I don't remember if it has media keys in the first place) 03:35:35 Bike: AVR is a line of popular 8-bit microcontrollers from Atmel 03:35:37 now i want my computer desk to have - to need - a carburator 03:35:42 kmc: oh ok 03:36:03 (well there's also AVR32 but it's a completely different thing) 03:37:08 kmc: I am looking for the foot-pedals themself; I already have a keyboard. 03:37:34 last time i went by a music shop (god was that a while ago) most of the pedals were programmable by usb 03:37:41 clearly you need to get a whammy bar for input 03:40:02 -!- ^v has joined. 03:40:18 -!- ^v has changed nick to VERSION. 03:48:29 -!- floret has joined. 03:56:09 the Guitar Hero for Xbox controller has a whammy bar and is USB 03:59:11 zzo38: what are you going to use your pedals for? 03:59:18 zzo38: i mean, what activity 03:59:51 quintopia: To play, stop, and rewind an audio file, clearly. 04:00:06 So that it can be done even when working on something else too. 04:00:24 zzo38: oh right i should have known. carry on. 04:01:40 Does anyone else think it would be useful like this too? 04:02:22 i think there are analog tape recorders with pedals 04:02:25 you could use one 04:02:51 I do have a tape recorder but it doesn't have pedals and isn't usable with the computer. 04:05:49 (Of course it would be helpful to allow the same pedals to be used with a tape or with computer, selectable by a switch) 04:08:21 "In terms of scalability, there is a clear winner throughout our experiments." 04:08:30 I misread that as "in our thought experiments" 04:11:57 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:14:02 for you bfjousters http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1558#comment-89317 04:14:30 (and elliott) 04:15:22 @tell elliott http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1558#comment-89317 04:15:22 Consider it noted. 04:31:22 -!- floret has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:03:24 oerjan: ah. when eli announced he was giving an entirely technical talk around now, i had wondered what it would be about. seems pretty interesting, though i know nothing about modal logic 05:19:45 -!- coppro_ has joined. 05:21:00 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 05:22:24 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:22:28 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:22:28 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:22:29 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:22:37 -!- realz has joined. 05:22:47 -!- realz has quit (Changing host). 05:22:47 -!- realz has joined. 05:24:05 -!- atehwa has joined. 05:34:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:38:38 "In Haskell, expressions are not evaluated until their results are actually needed. This is a simple decision with far-reaching consequences, which we will explore throughout the semester. Some of the consequences include:" 05:38:43 "It is easy to define a new control structure just by defining a function. 05:38:43 " 05:38:46 I hate you 05:38:54 ? 05:38:57 what did i do 05:38:58 what's wrong with that statement 05:39:39 Definining one's own control structures (well, imperative ones) has little to do with laziness in Haskell 05:39:54 And more to do with the monadic view of IO 05:40:09 yes, but not all control structures are imperative ones 05:40:13 how about things like if 05:40:18 if is a p. good control structure 05:40:29 conditionals are p.erfectly good control structures 05:41:31 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 05:44:22 also in a less direct sense, couldn't you say laziness is important in that it means there are no "sequencing" semantics - the concept of "doing things" is out - so you have to do things like IO, functional relations, instead? 05:44:47 -!- Sellyme has joined. 05:45:20 well that's the motivation for monadic IO yeah 05:45:31 Eh, sort of. 05:45:42 You could do IO the way Haskell does it in a strict language just as well. 05:45:55 sure, i just mean i can see it being motivating 05:45:57 right, but there's less reason to 05:46:09 at least until you've used Haskell and see how great it is 05:46:09 That's a cultural effect, I would think, which is significant, but technically, not necessary. Similar to how I prefer API design in statically-typed languages even though dynamically-typed languages are usually theoretically capable of similar decisions, they often make ones I don't like 05:46:10 Purity is valuable on its own. 05:46:15 it's a /historical/ motivation 05:46:16 right 05:46:17 In practice laziness was a motivation, I suppose. 05:46:30 SPJ says so, so it's hard to argue with it. 05:46:38 here's where i go a long tangent about lakatos 05:46:57 pls do 05:51:52 in pedagogy it's often helpful to develop things in a historical, though "rationalized", fashion. some traditions in math tend to depict things as axioms and definitions presented without real motivation, which are then extended through to the results. so to speak, in this fashion we would start by defining laziness without mentioning any consequences and go through to things like IO. the interesting thing here of course is that history did 05:51:52 or something like that, anyway. 05:55:14 I like motivation but I don't think the way people happened to figure things out historically is necessarily the best way to teach them. 05:56:00 'often' 05:56:27 and the 'rationalized' is supposed to allude to, like, not having to go through heat equations to understand fourier series :p 05:57:11 Yes. I don't even know if it often is. But I probably don't have enough examples one way or the other. 05:57:15 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:57:49 The IO monad in Haskell can be used with a category of pure functions, regardless of lazy evaluation or the programming language or anything else. It is because it is category of pure functions, that such a monad is made up. 05:58:17 zzo, meanwhile, is fully on the axiomatic side 05:59:42 I think "reasonable, rather than merely logical, steps" is almost always a good idea. 06:00:09 what great words we have. 06:15:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nyt). 06:18:47 -!- ^v has joined. 06:20:11 -!- VERSION has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:22:13 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:27:27 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:28:11 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:31:50 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 06:34:18 -!- Sellyme has joined. 06:35:08 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 06:42:41 Oh I forgot to erfdate 06:45:33 -!- trout has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:49:18 what 06:51:00 not in this house young man 07:04:22 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:32:17 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has joined. 07:35:55 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:51:58 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 07:55:19 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:56:17 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:11:34 i'm ten pages in to an ethernet-phy manual and i'm pretty sure the internet is impossible 08:13:51 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:14:08 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:14:16 apparently urxvt has a literal "print screen" key shortcut and i keep hitting it by accident 08:14:28 so i have all these printouts of #esoteric in my livin' room 08:14:40 reason #9999 to disable cups by default 08:15:43 dude i literally did that 08:15:56 that sounds unexceptionally great 08:15:58 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 08:16:18 i have a physical printout of MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN/ and shachaf wondering about generalizations of matrices 08:16:39 :-( 08:16:54 I shouldn't talk in logged channels. Especially not in publicly logged channels. 08:17:01 It's a v. bad habit. 08:17:13 it's not from logs, it's from urxvt 08:17:36 Yes. Even so. 08:17:55 hi lifthrasiir 08:19:06 -!- L8D has joined. 08:19:48 fungot: Is your code v. p.? 08:19:48 fizzie: ' so young a child." 08:19:59 Sounds suspicious. 08:21:45 i feel p. 08:21:48 oh so p. 08:21:50 wow 08:21:53 kmc, hi 08:22:22 fungot: what do you stand for 08:22:22 shachaf: then, having wholly fnord his views, and fnord my very soul with the tender music of the song, it ran fnord to get along to look for it, there's no chance of a night's rest here, i'm sure you'll forgive me: for i really couldn't bring myself to say ' draws well,' is to shrug your shoulders. ' draws well,' the king replied. ' further on,' the knight suddenly began in a loud voice, waving his right arm as he spoke) " the 08:23:11 ^style 08:23:11 Available: agora alice* c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 08:23:16 ^style irc 08:23:17 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 08:23:22 i miss the old fungot 08:23:22 shachaf: that could simplify quite a few 08:23:33 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:24:41 year of the fungot 08:24:42 kmc: when i properly javadoc my code, and a negative way of fleeing from real problems. 08:25:19 an actor who played luigi in the movie or such died this year 08:25:24 horrible irony 08:26:04 i don't understand why it's year of luigi and i don't know why i'm hearing about it only in december 08:26:40 because you haven't been paying atttention that's why 08:27:09 fungot: fnord 08:27:09 shachaf: ( define-syntax letn working. but now it infinitely loops 08:29:00 shachaf: http://sweetjs.org/ has scheme-style (or rust-style?) macros for javascript 08:29:04 it's pretty cool 08:30:15 is it p. sweet 08:30:20 m. 08:30:41 remember that javascript->javascript compiler edwardk was writing 08:30:46 yes 08:30:52 it had some g. things 08:31:17 c. 08:33:14 http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/flying-hacker-contraption-hunts-other-drones-turns-them-into-zombies/ anyone remember samy 08:41:35 no 08:43:22 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 08:44:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:49:15 kmc: did you hear about the thing where java substring() switched to copying strings 08:49:32 no 08:50:01 i guess so that big strings can be gced 08:50:14 that as an exciting to consider memory leak. 08:50:17 was* 08:50:32 i wonder if a fancy gc can do that on the fly 08:50:50 i have wondered about that in the past 08:51:00 there is a lot of research on gc with interior pointers, I'm sure 08:58:49 ion: make yourself useful, learn about categories 08:59:09 ok! 08:59:18 thx 09:01:15 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:07:16 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:07:36 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 09:08:14 -!- nisstyre has joined. 09:08:37 ion: You should figure out whether that thing about limits and the terminal object is true. 09:10:03 -!- nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:10:08 It’s false. 09:10:20 -!- nisstyre has joined. 09:10:31 -!- fizzie` has joined. 09:11:31 You should find a counterexample. 09:12:17 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:19 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:19 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 09:13:13 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 09:13:41 Huh. Everything broke. 09:13:58 what did you think would happen? 09:14:42 The wlan is gone, my workstation does not let me log in, the university shell servers do not answer from the outside either. 09:15:17 And the website redirects to a "wwwdown" host that has front page news from April. 09:15:42 April 1? 09:16:01 (Non-work 3G and interwebs at home still works.) 09:16:19 Non-work 3G sounds like it shouldn’t work. 09:16:31 April 18th. 09:17:19 Looks like it's a site for a scheduled network break at that time. 09:17:45 maybe it got delayed 09:17:56 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 09:19:22 (This is http://aalto.fi/ I'm talking about. If it's not fixed already.) 09:19:47 -!- Sellyme has joined. 09:21:35 -!- hogeyui has joined. 09:22:21 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 09:24:17 -!- Sellyme has joined. 09:25:12 We just switched these workstations to university accounts the other week, otherwise I might even have a chance of logging in. 09:25:43 can't you switch them back to local accounts? 09:27:03 By "we" I meant the IT administrative people of the department. We're not authorized to do much anything to them. 09:27:53 I guess technically I could boot from a memory stick if I really wanted to. 09:32:16 We asked for more disk space recently, maybe they tried to add some and accidentally the entire university system while they were at it. 09:36:23 "Aallon IT-palveluissa on häiriö. Vian syytä selvitetään parhaillaan. #aalto #aaltouni" at least the twitter account still works. 09:40:57 TIL: gnome-screensaver's login screen, if you leave it idle, says (ominously) "Time has expired." right before reblanking the screen. 10:05:56 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 10:08:48 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:10:26 Heh, all the doors have also locked themselves. (They still accept keycards, but even doors that are normally unlocked at this time of day are locked.) 10:14:41 "A truck carrying "dangerous" radioactive medical material has been stolen near Mexico City, the UN's nuclear watchdog says." 10:15:49 For some reason I went back to #haskell after more than a month of being away. 10:16:02 It turns out it's terrible. 10:16:25 02:08 BoR0: Just wave your hands vigorously while saying "unwrap" and look annoyed. 10:16:30 02:14 bind is the operation to use the magic wand 10:16:34 etc. etc. 10:17:00 perhaps it will collapse into a black hole of terribleness 10:17:06 It's possible. 10:17:24 `run grep -h terrible wisdom/* 10:17:26 brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. \ Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible. 10:18:43 Everyone will leave and it'll become a cesspool of stupid jokes and clueless bad advice and such. 10:19:29 yeah 10:19:43 pretty sure i gave my share of bad advice and stupid jokes when i was new there 10:19:50 maybe it's a never ending thing 10:20:29 a shepard tone of shit 10:20:43 I did also. 10:21:01 Maybe I thought it was good due to having bad taste. 10:21:05 Or maybe being less grouchy. 10:45:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:46:25 `run grep terrible wisdom/* | cut -d: -f1 10:46:27 wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/gregor 10:50:27 `run grep -l terrible wisdom/* # easier 10:50:29 wisdom/brainfuck \ wisdom/gregor 10:57:16 branfuck 10:59:06 Android swipe keyboard is refusing to type "fuck". It keeps saying duck instead. 11:00:07 Oh, there's a flag for that 11:00:15 it may be the case that duck is now a synonym to fuck. 11:13:39 -!- qlkzy has left. 11:25:14 -!- qlkzy has joined. 11:26:13 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:45:50 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 11:49:34 prodanities be damned. 11:50:57 prodamnities? 11:51:33 Maybe, but I just replaced "f" by "d". 11:52:51 -!- carado has joined. 11:54:16 -!- qlkzy has joined. 11:54:43 -!- qlkzy has left. 12:04:06 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 12:04:47 -!- Sellyme has joined. 12:11:40 -!- Lymia has joined. 12:49:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:56:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 12:57:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:58:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:58:33 http://www.break.com/video/ugc/a-minecraft-convention-is-as-awkward-as-you-think-2546224 13:01:30 -!- yorick has joined. 13:05:28 -!- boily has joined. 13:05:43 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:09:55 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 13:10:18 -!- Sellyme has joined. 13:23:22 good morning! 13:23:29 @messages-loud 13:23:29 mrhmouse asked 14h 34m 2s ago: sing me a song 13:23:43 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:24:04 @tell mrhmouse play me my song... ♪♪ here it comes again ♪ 13:24:04 Consider it noted. 13:32:30 ion: ouchhhh 13:33:23 i felt sorta bad for the one kid who asked a pretty clear question and just got ignored, though 13:34:37 (4:21) 13:38:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:40:52 there are some weird things going on in the logs... apparently I said « “oh baby... give up and use mushroom hunting ♪”» once... 13:41:13 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:42:27 ruddy, hunt me some mushroom 13:42:27 there are some weird things int-e, you? int-e, surely int-e, totes 13:42:40 totes. totoes?! 13:43:48 oh well, ddg helped. 13:44:23 ddg helped? BLASPHEMY! 13:44:27 ~duck totes 13:44:27 or TOTE, standing for "Test - Operate - Test - Exit", is an iterative problem solving strategy based on feedback loops. 13:45:18 boily: what, why, what do you thing ddg means? 13:47:04 int-e: this, because, this means duck duck go. 13:58:16 those "s huh 13:59:52 you are not seeing them. they are akin to fungot's fnords. hth. 13:59:52 boily: the receiver is ( lambda ( f. g)...) where the begin really is just as stupid 14:05:23 -!- L8D has joined. 14:06:10 `ello L8D 14:06:13 L8Dello 14:06:32 `ello l8d 14:06:33 l8dello 14:06:45 hm. apparently the `ello doesn't bind on “L”. 14:18:25 -!- tertu has joined. 14:26:07 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:36:01 -!- Lymia has joined. 14:36:13 hi ruddy 14:36:14 hi 14:36:25 ruddy: are you sentinent yet? 14:36:26 `olist huh, he hasn't yes, i didn't know they haven't done so yet? olist 930 no one did this yet? really?: ruddy oerjan sgeo FireFly have we tried the "pick which image from this set matches x criteria" approach yet? 14:36:28 olist huh, he hasn't yes, i didn't know they haven't done so yet? olist 930 no one did this yet? really?: ruddy oerjan sgeo FireFly have we tried the "pick which image from this set matches x criteria" approach yet?: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 14:36:31 ... 14:36:35 olist 930 no `olist huh, he hasn't yes, i didn't know they haven't `olist 930 no one did this yet? really? tertu sgeo ruddy HackEgo tertu sgeo ruddy HackEgo 14:37:11 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 14:41:18 FireFly: you managed to get rυddy to invoke HackEgo? 14:42:15 I think it decided to invoke HackEgo itself 14:42:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:42:46 rυddy. creative 14:43:15 Just avoiding spamming the channel with its nonsense this early :P (Well, early in my timezone) 14:43:27 ρuddι ρuddι 14:44:34 `unidecode ρuddι 14:44:36 ​[U+03C1 GREEK SMALL LETTER RHO] [U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+03B9 GREEK SMALL LETTER IOTA] 14:44:59 wow, ruddy exhibits more loop potential :) 14:44:59 there wow, what a movie wow, no break-in period! wow, that command actually works wow, thanks for showing that 14:45:10 haha. 14:45:23 @localtime mrhmouse 14:46:05 I still don't know what format lambdabot expects from that. 14:46:29 @localtime boily 14:46:31 Local time for boily is Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:46:29 -0500 14:47:09 `run echo -e '\001TIME 123\001' 14:47:11 ​.TIME 123. 14:47:47 I believe that's the format, but as a NOTICE to lambdabot (and without hackego's replacement of control characters.) 14:48:27 asdf 14:50:19 (CTCP uses PRIVMSG for requests, and NOTICE for replies; the \001...\001 marks the protocol; ... has a command first followed by arguments.) 14:51:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:52:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:05:01 -!- variable has joined. 15:05:28 @localtime fungot 15:05:28 fizzie: i've thought of throwing words on to a better low-level interface and use it 15:05:59 Hmm. 15:06:10 RAW >>> :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG fungot :Plugin `localtime' failed with: Prelude.init: empty list <<< 15:06:10 fizzie: the book mentioned that bbs case where the natural number n and makes bf interpret bf... n times, and lisppaste its table? 15:06:13 good idea, fungot 15:06:13 FireFly: undefined variable ' cd'. 15:06:21 I seem to recall it just printed out what it got, verbatim. 15:06:37 (I tried to have it say something "funny".) 15:11:28 fungot, stop being sentient. 15:11:28 boily: i don't know if a value is entirely dependent on the stuff. :p))) als)), right 15:11:50 @localtime metasepia 15:11:53 Local time for metasepia is Wed Dec 4 10:11:52 EST 2013 15:11:56 huh? 15:12:25 Is that the wrong TZ, boily? 15:13:03 the time is right, the timezone is right, I'm just very surprised that my bot answers @localtime. 15:13:30 Is that not a feature of metasepia? o.O 15:13:40 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:14:15 More sentient bots, I guess? 15:14:36 mrhmouse: metasepia is mysterious. 15:14:51 as long as ruddy doesn't become sentient.. 15:14:51 eventually communication will become impossible heero my hero.| become an heero|cannot as long as we're golfing 3 vertical long lines huh, . in c and -> in c both become . in rust it's become something of a running pastime for this channel, now and again 15:15:15 boily: who wrote it? 15:15:41 mrhmouse: me. 15:18:56 ~help 15:18:56 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 15:48:45 boily: so yesterday I was looking for content to feed to ruddy, and I realized that I have all of the English subtitles for Nichijou.. 15:48:52 star but no actual content oh i just looking at the content of the stack nevermind, i've just realized i had the milestone filter turned on... right, i just realized that's not necessarily the same ] in all cases 15:49:59 mrhmouse: the implications titillate me. 15:51:11 ruddy: 日本語をしゃべることができますか？ 15:51:39 ruddy, ruddy ruddy? 15:51:40 boily? 15:51:56 ruddy: what about nipponifying you? do you accept? 15:51:57 will you? boily, thank you? how are you? where are you? 15:52:29 he will. thank us after the deed. I'm having trouble staying awake. in Montréal. 15:52:46 boily: late night last night? 15:52:50 You can speak japanese? 16:01:07 -!- conehead has joined. 16:03:54 mroman_: yeah, there was a linux meetup on the other side of the city. 16:03:55 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:04:05 s/mroman_/mrhmouse/ 16:05:01 mroman_: not enough. I want to take further classes, but my current schedule conflicts with stuff that conflicts with other stuff that happens to happen at the same time as things. 16:07:06 boily: linux meetup? 16:07:39 mrhmouse: informal meeting with a presentation, food, weird people... 16:08:36 sounds about right.. 16:08:58 tonight, I'm attending the Montréal Haskellers Meetup :D 16:09:23 that one is going to be very promising. it happens at a nice place, not too far away, and you know, Haskell! 16:10:01 http://www.randolphpub.ca/ 16:16:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:19:27 * oerjan swats ruddy for the fake `olist -----### 16:20:14 ruddy, you've been swatted. 16:20:15 you've never asked me hth you've got to then you've been c++-infected. we're going to have to put you out, sorry. at least until you've used haskell and see how great it is who needs 3d glasses when you've got a beret and a casio calculator but you don't find out that you've lost until about 6 hours later 16:22:46 `addquote i'm ten pages in to an ethernet-phy manual and i'm pretty sure the internet is impossible 16:22:50 1141) i'm ten pages in to an ethernet-phy manual and i'm pretty sure the internet is impossible 16:25:01 oh so p. <-- i feel p. and w. and b. ? 16:26:31 one of my great dilemmas when i become world dictator will be whether to abolish sleep or not. 16:26:57 because, damn time zones and people not being online. 16:27:07 but also, damn sleep so good 16:35:46 the other Great Dilemma is: are you going to promote bokmål or nynorsk? 16:36:39 both, of course. 16:39:33 also the people in metropolitan france have to learn quebecois french, and vice versa. 16:40:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:41:11 Tanelle. 16:41:32 oerjan: messemble. 16:44:15 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:46:10 i assume that's an example, since gt cannot understand it. 16:47:05 «messemble» → «il me semble» → “it seems to me”, used in a sarcastic manner, much like “yeah right.” 16:47:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:47:50 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:51:38 * oerjan fixes some horrendous grammar at the top of wp's Québécois and Québécois people articles 17:00:29 ~duck totes <-- http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/130325.html 17:01:58 (i'm sorry) 17:01:59 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:22:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:23:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:30:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:30:37 -!- augur has joined. 17:33:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:34:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:35:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:38:45 Does anyone know of a fun-looking INTERCAL program that preferably can fit into a single slide 17:50:44 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 17:51:41 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:06:38 -!- ^v has joined. 18:27:51 -!- augur has joined. 18:38:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:44:16 did you check the Comprehensive INTERCAL Archive Network ? 18:44:46 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:48:43 -!- Egbert9e9 has left. 18:54:25 @tell oerjan goats are nice. I like goats. they are fluffy. 18:54:25 Consider it noted. 18:56:35 tromp__, I did not 19:00:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:02:52 -!- Bike has joined. 19:04:43 haha. "You can also download the compiler via gopher: gopher.intercal.org.uk (IPv6 only)" 19:05:00 * int-e tries to find an ipv6 capable gopher client. 19:06:15 int-e: can I get the URL? I am curious. 19:08:13 this? gopher://gopher.intercal.org.uk or this? http://intercal.freeshell.org/download/ 19:09:40 I'll be gophering away, and see if it ipv6es... 19:11:06 well. it seems to work. downloading from gopher://gopher6.intercal.org.uk/1C-INTERCAL 19:11:53 lynx works. that's ... almost boring. 19:12:29 firefox/overbite works. 19:14:20 I guess I had not used gopher in 15 years. 19:14:39 Naybe a bit less, possibly as low as 12. 19:17:13 int-e: Firefox with overbite? 19:17:14 hoily, hint-e 19:17:25 Ah 19:17:27 it works 19:17:32 fternoopia. 19:17:37 oerjan: or "p. and w. and g." if you prefer 19:17:58 pretty and with and grok? 19:18:12 please fix HackEgo/ruddy interaction thx 19:18:13 thx 19:18:31 what's broke about it 19:18:35 please let ruddy Invoke the Power of HackEgo. 19:18:36 boily, i you managed yes, please the only chance you have is to get ruddy to invoke boily, really also, won't people be offended if i put religious texts in? ruddy, you made boily, right? ruddy, boily: you're both cute imo boily, meat ruddy. ruddy, this is boily. some people here tried matchmaking boily and ruddy, with no avail. 19:19:05 * boily strokes his cute beard 19:19:19 previously ruddy activated `olist 19:19:19 `olist (931) `olist (932) `olist 930 no one did this yet? really? it seems faster now with 224 kb than previously with 36kb but this does give me the idea to give `olist an incrementing counter. 19:19:21 olist (931) `olist (932) `olist 930 no one did this yet? really? it seems faster now with 224 kb than previously with 36kb but this does give me the idea to give `olist an incrementing counter.: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 19:19:29 welp. 19:19:35 ruddy: `olist 19:19:36 `olist (931) previously boily activated `olist 930 no one did this yet? really? `olist (931) `olist (932) `olist 930 no one did this yet? really? it seems faster now with 224 kb than previously with 36kb but this does give me the idea to give `olist an incrementing counter. but this does give me the idea to give `olist an incrementing counter. 19:19:37 olist (931) previously boily activated `olist 930 no one did this yet? really? `olist (931) `olist (932) `olist 930 no one did this yet? really? it seems faster now with 224 kb than previously with 36kb but this does give me the idea to give `olist an incrementing counter. but this does give me the idea to give `olist an incrementing counter.: shac 19:19:48 nice 19:20:06 shachaf: what does lambdabot use? zero-width space? 19:21:32 I don't know what the deal is with carious cross-bot interactions. Some bots have special cases for other bots. 19:21:48 I also don't know who runs ruddy. 19:21:49 okay, shachaf. never changing okay, shachaf. okay, shachaf. thanks, shachaf. thint-e. 19:22:15 I run ruddy. 19:22:15 @help run ``run run okay, mrhmouse. okay, mrhmouse. okay, mrhmouse. 19:22:16 run . You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts! 19:22:17 I think ^O as the first character would probably work in IRC. 19:22:28 ruddy: quiet 19:22:28 i guess thanks again for that tip about infants. i possibly the same thing that happens to all such things, like pesoix and psox. (a quiet death, that is.) 19:23:17 ruddy on rails 19:23:18 kmc ♪ hey kmc ♪ 19:23:23 :D :D :D 19:23:26 nice song ruddy 19:23:26 sing me a song kmc asked 14h 34m 2s ago: sing and now i have the title song in my head why does that look like a gy!be song title to me... nice 19:24:58 Nighty night ruddy. 19:24:59 nighty night good night late night last night? anyway, good night now 19:25:03 -!- ruddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:25:35 -!- ruddy has joined. 19:25:37 ruddy: `olist 19:25:37 ​`olist (931) 19:25:46 hmm, I think I haven't used gopher since I last used IBM's OS/2 web browser which iirc had gopher 19:27:29 kmc: yes, boily taught ruddy to sing I think 19:29:00 well done boily 19:29:05 Firefox used to have gopher built in 19:29:13 ruddy: sing me a song 19:29:25 FreeFull: it had, but now you need to overbite it. 19:29:41 ruddy: sing him a song. 19:29:42 ​@ask boily 19:29:56 shachaf: seems that I shall be the one to sing you a song. 19:30:05 boily: you can sing me one 19:30:32 I think ruddy knows Row Your Boat 19:30:34 ​row, 19:30:34 -!- muskrat has joined. 19:30:54 * boily sings a Canadian song, full with maple syrup, Québécois, beavers, pierogies, polar bears and hockey ♪ 19:31:01 ruddy wants a cracker! 19:31:02 ​and nobody wants to be illegal, 19:31:27 ruddy row my boat please 19:31:28 ​row 19:31:34 row harder ruddy 19:31:34 ​row god mollification is a big one, it's harder for chaotics harder and 19:31:50 just do whatever rows your boat, ruddy 19:31:50 row it all the way home ruddy 19:31:52 ​row row row 19:31:54 ruddy: you switched gods in a DCSS run? 19:31:55 ​we just switched these workstations to you 19:32:06 ruddy ruddy ruddy 19:32:13 :'( 19:32:20 ruddy, don't ignore people 19:32:21 ​@tell wait, 19:32:21 ruddy, why won't you shachaf? 19:32:22 ​mine does boily, have you met but no guarantees i won't go stale 19:32:26 that's clearly nethack 19:32:32 ruddy! 19:32:35 nooodl: DCSS I say. 19:32:46 ruddy: yes, why won't you 19:32:50 h8r 19:33:06 god mollification *is* harder for chaotics in nethack. dcss doesn't even have alignments. also i remember it being ais523 talking about nethack? vaguely 19:33:14 if it can't find a suitable response, ruddy just stays silent. sorry, shachaf :P 19:33:57 mrhmouse: make it say "i don't know, what do you think, fungot?" 19:33:57 quintopia: an error: integer division or modulo by zero... 19:34:22 ruddy: you're not a suitable response 19:34:23 ​more the internet fight or fight response 19:34:46 ruddy: ♪ 19:34:46 ​shachaf ♪ hey 19:34:52 quintopia: I think ruddy is beyond my control at this point 19:34:54 ​good .jump point 19:34:54 ruddy: ♪ is that your only song ♪ 19:34:56 ​shachaf ♪ hey shachaf ♪ 19:35:05 fight or flight, ruddy? 19:35:07 nooodl: “If the penance is reduced to zero you get the " seems mollified." message.” 19:35:21 * int-e feels ignored by ruddy. 19:35:29 elliott: have you crawled you DCSS today? 19:35:43 int-e: ruddy also doesn't respond to /me or notices 19:35:43 ruddy: ♪ i like bugs, i like bugs, i like bugs, i like bugs ♪ 19:35:45 ​`pastelogs ♪ shachaf ♪ hey 19:36:05 ♪ ruddy ruddy ♪ 19:36:06 ​♪ shachaf ♪ hey shachaf ♪ 19:36:16 good thing I added that zero-width space.. it's pretty fond of invoking other bots lately 19:36:32 ruddy: ♪ last chance ♪ 19:36:39 ruddy: what do you think of your fellow bots? 19:36:40 ruddy: do you like bugs? 19:36:41 ​i ... what 19:36:42 ​do you like cats? do shit 19:37:01 ruddy: what about fungot? 19:37:02 FireFly: as the leftmost will be the wired connection between them. 19:37:08 mrhmouse: no, i mean, make that the fallback message when otherwise nothing would be said. 19:37:18 I guess it hasn't met fungot yet 19:37:18 FireFly: don't swear. all of this stuff. might as well do it tomorrow. ' night 19:38:02 good night fungot ;-) 19:38:03 int-e: i dont know what to expect? it's never even explicit in that post? 19:38:14 quintopia: consider it done 19:38:30 well, that was just mean. condescending, and mean. 19:39:02 fungot and ruddy have bad bot personalities. 19:39:02 int-e: i've lost the remote anyway. 19:39:03 ​bad example 19:40:25 ruddy: give us a better one, then 19:40:26 so is there any bot chatter spinoff of #esoteric? 19:40:27 ​you have doomed us all 19:40:45 good one, ruddy 19:41:01 surprisingly fitting. possibly 19:41:03 Night night again, ruddy. 19:41:04 ​night nighty night 19:41:07 -!- ruddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:41:26 -!- ruddy has joined. 19:41:32 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:41:46 ruddy: supercalifragilisticexpialidocious 19:42:30 ruddy: who is Sprocklem? why does he emulate Bike? 19:42:32 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 19:43:01 mrhmouse: not quite nearly it. 19:43:02 ^ignore 19:43:05 whoa. 19:43:11 fungot is dead? 19:43:11 boily: i'm not. :( i'd really not fancy restarting it. if i had 19:43:23 wait, am i being emulated? 19:43:24 ...or however you produced the list of ignored nicks 19:43:24 fungot: STOP BEING SENTIENT. I am disturbed. 19:43:24 boily: the biggest problems of an fnord 19:43:44 boily: such is the life of a fungot 19:43:45 FireFly: me still has the source. 19:43:47 Bike: I was subtly referring to you tendency to disconnect and rejoin. 19:43:55 :V 19:44:12 i'll get a bouncer by next year, i swear 19:44:20 fungot: *a fnord 19:44:21 olsner: methinkx it was a interpreter on a very flimsy pretext. clearly you're actually a british secret agent. i am /still/ confused. you want a 19:44:39 clearly. 19:44:45 -!- ruddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:44:46 I want a, too! 19:45:08 -!- ruddy has joined. 19:45:36 int-e: what was the #esoteric variant for spammy text, again? 19:45:49 #esoteric 19:46:33 coming from #haskell I expect #esoteric-blah, #esoteric-overflow and #esoteric-in-depth 19:46:58 boily, please direct your mapole towards Bike. 19:47:06 int-e: I think #esoteric-blah was it 19:47:25 I like the ring of "#esoteric-in-depth" 19:47:49 * boily kinetically directs his mapole towards Bike 19:48:10 help 19:48:10 #esoteric-lens 19:48:21 help. 19:48:37 #esoteric-even-more-esoteric 19:48:45 boily: help? you're beyond help, I'm afraid. 19:49:31 int-e: you know, #haskell is a tad bigger 19:49:51 #esoteric-empty-channel 19:50:00 FireFly: really now? And what are you doing about that? *g* 19:50:22 . o O ( /mode +i #haskell ... hmmm. ) 19:50:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:50:45 hezzo38. 19:51:04 (clearly inviting a whole channel is a sorely missing feature of IRC servers) 19:51:16 `ello zzo38 19:51:17 zzello38 20:05:01 int-e: with freenode extended banmasks, you can give invite exempt to nicks joined to some other channel, 20:05:17 or I think you can even quiet everyone who isn't joined on a particular other channel, 20:05:35 with some permission limits. 20:06:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:07:44 Why do you need this? 20:08:58 zzo38: because it's nicely esoteric 20:10:56 Can you invite exempt everyone who is banned on the other channel? 20:12:04 Esoteric Lens sounds like a D&D item 20:12:22 OK 20:13:41 But what is its purpose? Does it have anything to do with the "Lens" in Haskell? 20:14:03 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 20:14:36 I'd like to think that it is really focussed on esoteric matters. 20:16:50 zzo38: no, I don't think you can do that with an extban, 20:17:06 zzo38: but you could do it with an active bot that follows the other channel 20:18:18 * boily adds an item for his next Paranoïa campaign... “esoteric lens” 20:19:44 -!- evalj has joined. 20:19:56 `relcome evalj 20:19:59 ​evalj: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:20:29 zzo38: in fact, such a bot would be a fun application of the +D user mode 20:20:41 ] 'hi' 20:20:42 FireFly: hi 20:21:45 abort! abort! `unelcome evalj! 20:24:58 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:26:13 <`^_^v> binary trees in the wild: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYDmkLSCEAEQZQa.png 20:26:46 "Paranoïa" eh 20:27:42 `^_^v: nice 20:27:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^v:: not found 20:28:51 kmc: I couldn't leave the word undiæresised. 20:42:16 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:42:18 `bf >>>>>>>>. 20:42:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf: not found 20:51:43 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:58:54 !bf +++++++++++++++++++++. 20:58:55 20:58:56 ​. 21:05:17 -!- conehead has joined. 21:16:26 !bf 21:16:26 No output. 21:16:28 ++++++++[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++++<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>>>---.+++<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+.-<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--.++<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>----.++++<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>++.--<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>+.-<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>.<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>+.-<<<<<<<<<<<<<> 21:16:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>+++.---<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>.<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>+.-<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>.<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>++.--<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-.+<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----.++++<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>--.++<<<<<<. 21:16:33 darn. 21:17:13 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 21:19:47 -!- muskrat has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:19:50 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 21:20:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:26:45 `seen Bike 21:26:49 2013-12-04 19:48:10: help 21:27:10 that's not at all unsettling 21:29:21 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:45 ruddy: settle things for us 21:31:46 ​older 21:32:05 ruddy 21:32:05 ​shachaf 21:32:15 ruddy: v. clever 21:32:16 ​okay, 21:32:26 ruddy: what's going on in here 21:32:27 ​what's wrong? 21:32:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:32:37 ruddy: i love monoids. they are so easy. 21:32:39 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 21:32:52 fungot: well? answer the nice bot 21:32:52 shachaf: if you define a clone operation and have objects you want fnord handle it. 21:33:09 ruddy, fungot: fight! 21:33:09 shachaf: that's not linux, that's mmixware. http://people.csail.mit.edu/ rahimi/ helmet/ impossible, you mean? isn't it wiliki? http://www.kollektiv-hamburg.de/forcer/ fnord 21:33:09 ​ shachaf, ruddy: as 21:33:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:35:15 . 21:35:15 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 21:35:35 fizzie: please nore ruddy. 21:35:35 ​okay, boily. 21:35:52 fizzie: see, even he agrees. 21:36:03 (nore: v.t. to unignore.) 21:36:56 I still haven't gotten ruddy to sing "row, row, row your boat"... 21:36:58 ​row, row, row your boat 21:37:04 Nevermind. 21:37:58 ruddy: tell me a story about pineapples and fountain pens and wheat 21:38:00 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 21:39:17 !bf ++++++++[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++++<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>>>---.+++>>>>>+.-<--.++<----.++++>>++.--<<+.-<<<<<<<<<.>>>>>>>>>+.->+++.---<<<<<<<<<<.>>>>>>>>+.-<<<<<<<<.>>>>>>>>++.-->>-.+>----.++++<<<<<<<<<--.++<<<<<<. 21:39:17 Myndzi is a bot. 21:39:17 Myndzi is a bot. 21:39:52 !bf +[>+<+++]>. 21:39:52 U 21:39:59 Hrm. I would think ruddy at least knows about pineapples. 21:40:01 ​nobody knows yet. 21:40:12 :) 21:40:22 pineapple ruddy ruddy pineapply pie 21:40:22 ​`? pineapple 21:40:42 does that exist? 21:40:44 probably not 21:40:48 `? pineapple 21:40:50 Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable. 21:40:58 ...why did I doubt that? 21:41:09 heh. one of my best wisdoms, if I may say so ^^ 21:42:27 `run cd wisdom; ? $(ls | shuf -n 1) 21:42:29 No output. 21:42:48 hrm 21:43:17 er 21:43:28 `run ? $(cd wisdom | ls | shuf -n 1) 21:43:30 bash: -: command not found 21:43:55 `run ? $(cd wisdom | ls | shuf -n 1) 21:43:57 bash: -: command not found 21:43:58 * FireFly wonders why he wrote a pipe there 21:44:10 `run ? $(cd wisdom; ls | shuf -n 1) 21:44:12 bash: -: command not found 21:44:16 I don't get it. 21:44:25 `run ? pineapple 21:44:26 bash: -: command not found 21:44:32 I think the it is got. 21:44:47 `run \? pineapple 21:44:49 Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable. 21:45:02 `run \? $(cd wisdom; ls | shuf -n 1) 21:45:05 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 21:45:13 hm. another creation of mine. 21:45:15 Wisdom of the day 21:46:16 `run \? $(cd wisdom; ls | shuf -n 1) 21:46:18 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 21:46:22 ... 21:46:28 `run \? $(cd wisdom; ls | shuf -n 1) 21:46:31 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 21:46:36 shuf is borken. 21:46:45 Help I am really tempted to create a Haskell compiler 21:46:50 `run \? $(cd wisdom; ls -1 | shuf -n 1) 21:46:53 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 21:46:57 Due to being at York and the York Haskell Compiler being utterly dead 21:46:58 Taneb: go for it! 21:47:07 !bf +++++++++++[>++++>+++>+++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++<<<<<-]>>>.>.>.----------.<+.>+++++.<<<-.>>>.<-------.<<.>>>--------.<<<.>>>+.<----.+++++.<<<++. 21:47:07 Myndzi is a bot. 21:47:11 I KNOW NOTHING OF COMPILERS THAT IS A SECOND YEAR MODULE 21:47:21 there, a bit shorter. 21:47:30 `thanks int-e 21:47:31 Thanks, int-e. Thint-e. 21:53:30 Taneb: who cares. 21:53:56 Taneb: just rely on the interwebs instead, it'll probably work out okay 21:54:09 FireFly, also right now I am really busy 21:54:19 I have to right a talk on esolangs in the next 21 hours 21:54:27 fair point 21:54:34 have you read your SICP today? 21:54:37 maybe postpone the haskell compiler for 24-or-so hours 21:55:13 talking about talking about esolangs, what happened to jsvine? 22:03:26 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:04:02 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 22:04:02 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:07:11 `relcome Sorella 22:07:13 ​Sorella: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:07:47 Also why the hell do I still watch all the totheark videos 22:08:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:08:26 there are still new episodes? I dropped MH a long time ago. not enough stuff happening. 22:09:23 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:09:57 boily, I dropped it ages ago 22:10:03 Never bothered to drop totheark 22:16:58 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 22:17:04 are there any worthwile horror series on youtube anymore? I want to be scared and terrified and disquieted. 22:17:15 -!- ^v has joined. 22:17:18 (the best kind of videos there is! I watch them just before going to bed.) 22:18:19 boily, House of Leaves is a good bedtime read 22:18:53 I want to buy a copy. I've been bumping into it countless times on tvtropes, never to read the spoilers. 22:20:43 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 22:21:01 -!- ^v has joined. 22:22:46 -!- Bike has joined. 22:23:57 ~metar CYUL 22:23:57 CYUL 042200Z 15003KT 15SM FEW065 OVC075 01/M02 A3016 RMK SC1AC7 SLP214 22:24:08 ~metar KSFO 22:24:08 KSFO 042156Z 06003KT 10SM CLR 11/M04 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP166 T01061044 22:24:12 no boots tonight! 22:24:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:25:08 time to go disappear so somewhere else where there are boardgames and beers. 22:25:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHICKEN TRADING PROGRAMME). 22:25:25 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:25:48 @tell boily "Marble Hornets" is supposedly good, according to my SO. I haven't watched it, myself. 22:25:48 Consider it noted. 22:26:42 mrhmouse, boily had just said he's got bored of MH 22:27:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:27:29 Taneb: Ah, I didn't catch what the abbreviation was for. Thanks! 22:27:48 @tell boily Ignore that; I collect socks. 22:27:48 Consider it noted. 22:30:17 hm it seems to be sock synchronicity day 22:31:03 sockpair(2) 22:31:14 @messages-long 22:31:14 boily said 3h 36m 48s ago: goats are nice. I like goats. they are fluffy. 22:31:18 Bike: so btw i know about real-sided matrices now 22:31:29 orly how's that work out 22:31:32 shachaf, are they like matrices of solidarity 22:31:39 solidity. 22:31:43 except they're not the linear algebra sort of matrix 22:31:53 so not the "matrix" sort of matrix 22:31:54 they're the CHU SPACE SORT OF MATRIX HA HA HA 22:32:09 (a chu space is just a matrix) 22:32:20 do you actually have to go all the way up to chu spaces 22:32:25 I.e. a function : X x A -> K 22:32:47 `? chu space 22:32:49 chu space? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:32:59 Taneb invented them. 22:33:57 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:34:13 `run echo "A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention." >wisdom/chu\ space 22:34:16 No output. 22:36:16 Oh noooooooo 22:36:46 Also, if I've got an ethernet cable running directly from my computer to my RPi how can I work out the IP of the RPi to ssh? 22:40:01 -!- conehead has joined. 22:40:58 it won't necessarily have one 22:41:48 probably it tried to get one using DHCP but your computer probably isn't running a DHCP server 22:42:04 you could run a DHCP server, or set addresses manually on either end with ifconfig 22:42:10 or use link-local IPv6 addresses 22:42:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:42:36 oh I guess IPv4 has those too 22:42:39 welp 22:42:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:44:26 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:44:41 Okay 22:44:43 @ping 22:44:43 pong 22:44:53 Hmm 22:44:57 Slower than wirelss 22:45:03 `? Taneb 22:45:05 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards, and five genders. (See also: d-modules) 22:45:46 oerjan: the important thing about chu spaces isn't what they are but what the morphisms between them are 22:46:16 Right, now I have no way to get onto my RPi 22:46:23 Unless... 22:46:42 I rely on my desktop's wireless connection and plug my RPi into the socket in the wall thing 22:47:05 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:48:13 `? shachaf 22:48:14 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 22:48:41 Poor Nepeta ): 22:49:15 what's wrong with being cosplayed as by shacha 22:49:16 f 22:49:24 Bike: nothing 22:49:40 It's not that 22:49:44 It's what happened to her 22:49:51 in dual russia, tree cosplays you! 22:51:38 Corussia? 22:52:11 -!- atriq has joined. 22:53:24 In Coratia, tree cosplays you 22:53:40 РОССИR? 22:54:06 that's not a country. it's not even an untry 22:54:31 there are so many countries that start with co 22:55:15 coland 22:55:19 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:55:53 five genders? "gender is five but men have only one name for it" 22:56:09 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:56:20 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 22:56:36 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Client Quit). 22:56:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:56:43 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 23:01:45 corussia dortmund 23:02:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:02:44 perhaps san jose is self-dual 23:03:35 Dual Las Vegas is somewhere in Kansas 23:03:54 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 23:04:12 -!- ^v has joined. 23:05:34 colombia, costa rica, comoros, are there any others 23:06:14 congo? 23:06:31 conodo 23:06:38 right. this list also has côte d'ivoire 23:09:19 and cook islands is on this other list 23:09:33 (the only non-un member) 23:12:56 hm lots in ma- 23:13:06 i think we may have discussed that before 23:14:02 how many ør- countries are there 23:14:22 0 23:14:36 -!- Bike has joined. 23:15:03 there's this municipality named ørland north of the fjord here, though 23:15:05 i spent twenty earth dollars on a stereo dac with jack for my fpga that i have no idea how to use because i'm a foolish fool 23:16:03 maybe i should take it over and start conquering the world from it. 23:16:19 i will ironically leave neighboring bjugn out of my empire. 23:16:45 Bike: how much is that in america dollars 23:16:48 (they've been failing to agree to merge for years) 23:19:32 shachaf: probably at least eleven? 23:25:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:28:18 How many countries start with Po? 23:30:03 two, looks like. 23:30:41 five to seven for co-, also 23:30:43 Poland and? 23:30:46 portugal. 23:31:01 That's it? 23:31:53 according to wikipedia, yes. right between the philippines and pridnestrovie or qatar. 23:32:32 (pridnestrovie is de jure part of moldova) 23:34:32 are you looking at english endonyms only? 23:34:36 er. exonyms. 23:34:38 yes. 23:34:50 well, except that pridnestrovie is 'transnistria' in english most of the time. 23:35:20 the first time I went to Europe I was like "really, everyone has a different name for every city, are you sure this isn't an elaborate practical joke" 23:35:42 i assume that's the european version of pronouncing 'worcester'. 23:35:48 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:36:01 Bike, what's weird about "Wooster" 23:36:32 the one in new england, taneb. 23:37:31 you kind of uh, slur the r. i don't know if it's slurring exactly 23:37:41 i think it basically boils down to spitting on the foreigner. 23:38:12 Wuhster 23:38:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:38:33 huh, did you know pakistan doesn't recognize armenia's sovereignty 23:38:55 -!- tertu has joined. 23:39:06 why not 23:39:24 My mum lived in Pakistan for a bit as a child 23:39:33 somebody make a graph of which countries don't recognize each other 23:39:52 kmc: because pakistan is buds with azerbaijan 23:40:00 a graph of which widely recognized countries don't recognize each other, and another of which mostly not recognized countries do recognize each other 23:40:17 iirc Turkey does not recognize Cyprus? 23:40:17 i recognize kmcstan 23:40:29 according to wikipedia there isn't much in that way, it's basically israel, cyprus, armenia, china, and the koreas 23:40:36 kmc, how do you pronounce "kmc"? 23:40:38 for un states anyway 23:40:48 Taneb: i don't use it in speech but uh as three letters i guess 23:40:50 my name's keegan 23:40:54 hi keegan 23:41:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:41:04 "kmc" is pronounced "keegan" I guess 23:41:06 hm, i supose that means that azerbaijan recognizes armenia. 23:42:15 relationship status of Azerbaijan and Armenia has changed to "It's complicated" 23:42:18 there is this whole network of eastern european breakaway states though 23:42:25 that all recognize each other but nobody else does 23:42:34 (except russia) 23:44:42 -!- muskrat has joined. 23:45:56 -!- ter2 has joined. 23:46:56 well apparently russia doesn't recognize transnistria either. 23:48:10 ok, well, they still have a consolate there. also the army. 23:48:49 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:48:53 the US is moving its Holy See embassy into the same building complex as the Italian embassy 23:49:03 and a bunch of people got upset that this means the US doesn't think the Holy See is a "real country" anymore 23:49:07 and i was like … 23:49:24 redonkulus 23:51:43 nobody in my circuits class wants to do boolean algebra ;_; 23:51:44 it's going to be in italy anyway, because the vatican state is too small to fit its embassies, i think. 23:52:09 Bike: hmm tell me about boolean algebra 23:52:12 -!- tertu has joined. 23:52:15 Bike: make an intuitionist logic circuit instead hth 23:52:25 shachaf: uh, what don't you know 23:52:31 in particular complete atomic boolean algebras 23:52:34 * oerjan wonders how well kripke models work in hardware 23:52:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:52:48 oerjan: i did think of jokingly bringing up double negation being controversial but it wouldn't have been funny 23:53:12 you should tell people that the axiom of infinity is a large cardinal axiom, as well 23:53:20 (speaking of the vatican?) 23:53:28 Bike: for instance what are they 23:53:52 algebras over {0,1}? 23:53:54 kmc: these axioms are better anyway: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1212.6543v1.pdf 23:54:19 complete atomic boolean algebras? 23:54:26 man i don't fucking know this is engineering 23:54:38 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:55:07 i don't think atomicity can be expressed with equations. 23:55:08 the point is that the dual chu set to the one representing a set is a caba 23:55:14 so what is it 23:55:18 siiiiigh. 23:55:41 Bike: what do you think of those axioms 23:55:41 shachaf: that's just stone duality, no? 23:56:00 oerjan: probably 23:56:06 "A model of the equational theory of the algebra of all operations on {0,1} of arity up to the cardinality of the model is called a complete atomic Boolean algebra" 23:56:11 how does it work 23:56:13 which is something chu spaces generalize (i just cleaned up the references in wp's chu space article) 23:56:20 i think i don't really give a damn about axioms most of the time 23:56:39 yay oerjan 23:56:56 oerjan: Do you think you could switch X and A in the Wikipedia page? 23:57:06 See the [Note] at the top of http://chu.stanford.edu/ 23:58:05 shachaf: neat 23:58:35 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:59:45 hm there's an agreement between the holy see and italy that the same person cannot be ambassador to both 2013-12-05: 00:00:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:00:29 shachaf: nah too lazy 00:00:55 oerjan: what am i paying you for 00:00:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:01:29 nothing hth 00:03:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:04:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:04:49 -!- ShadowNinja has joined. 00:06:01 Is Tardis usefully implementable as an operational? 00:06:05 Because if I understand properly, operational's main limitation is laziness related 00:06:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:07:03 Also, where has the Eff monad been all my life? This is why I sometimes hate Haskell: It takes too long to replace garbage (e.g. monad transformers) with the stunningly beautiful abstractions Haskellers eventually (eventually!) find 00:07:05 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:07:56 oerjan: or "p. and w. and g." if you prefer <-- hm i didn't know that, although apparently "bright" is the oldest version (sorry, conspiracy theorist i also found when googling) 00:07:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:08:49 oh, i thought that was a newer version 00:09:34 not according to imdb 00:11:04 according to the mention there, they changed it from "bright" to "gay" in the film because they changed the time of the scene from night to day 00:11:33 -!- tertu has joined. 00:12:27 Sgeo: soon edwardk will generalize the Eff monad into a lens variant, giving us the function effing 00:12:38 :D 00:12:39 * oerjan doesn't know what the Eff monad is 00:12:48 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1s3oba/24_days_of_hackage_extensibleeffects/ 00:12:55 Still don't totally know how it works 00:13:41 ic haven't got around to reddit today yet 00:14:13 and at this speed i might not 00:17:41 Maybe I should just read the Oleg paper 00:18:37 -!- Bike has joined. 00:19:35 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:19:47 -Weff-c++ 00:22:28 kmc: are you going to knuth's christmas tree lecture next week 00:23:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:27:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 00:30:28 the US is moving its Holy See embassy into the same building complex as the Italian embassy <-- hm wp says the holy see protested previously when the uk did that. 00:31:22 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/pipes-aeson-0.2.0/docs/Pipes-Aeson.html 00:31:22 err 00:31:23 what kind of diplomatic affairs can you even have with the vatican? rescuing a tourist from your country who decided to replace fig leaves with cannabis? 00:31:49 Why wouldn't encode take objects/arrays to encode as its incoming data? 00:32:33 isn't that what it's doing 00:34:22 Maybe, if Pipe is just a synonym for a function taking an argument or something 00:35:00 i mean it says encode takes an Either Object Array 00:35:38 Yes, but as a normal argument to a function to create a Producer 00:35:52 So you make one producer out of a single object/array and feed downstream with it 00:35:56 As far as I understand 00:36:57 Producers are pipes with capped input 00:37:04 So yeah :/ 00:38:03 decodeMany 00:38:31 I don't know if there's a combinator in pipes to turn these into less sucky things 00:38:35 If there is, I'd be satisfied 00:43:09 @tell FireFly ...or however you produced the list of ignored nicks <-- i think it's a fizzie-only command. 00:43:09 Consider it noted. 00:45:44 shachaf: dunno probably not 00:48:22 !bf +++++++++++++++++++++. 00:48:23 00:48:23 ​. 00:48:31 myndzi: wat. 00:48:54 !bf +++++ +++++ [ > +++++ +++++ > + << - ] > ++++ . + . > . 00:48:54 hi 00:48:55 hi 00:48:59 wat 00:49:06 oh 00:49:36 i thought it was a bug in his people graphic script but he actually has a bf interpreter? 00:49:44 kr 00:49:49 ikr* 00:49:51 !help 00:49:51 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 00:50:00 nice choice of command character (not!!!) 00:50:14 !! 00:50:18 !asdf 00:50:26 —.— 00:50:31 Oh 00:50:32 —–- 00:50:39 You can compose producers 00:50:49 Well, functions that take an argument and return producers 00:50:56 in what? 00:51:01 Or, just use for 00:51:10 Still, I think a pipe makes more sense 00:51:39 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 00:52:36 Sgeo: i'm sure tekmo will explain at length why it's not done that way if you ask him. 00:53:59 http://betabeat.com/2013/09/smell-ya-later-nerds/ "that time my editor tried to get me to go on a date with a sex robot" 00:54:52 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:55:00 Wait, did Tekmo make the pipes-aeson library? 00:55:04 I assumed it was some random 00:55:09 -!- Bike has joined. 00:55:45 Oh, not Tekmo I think, just the person who is the biggest contributor to the Pipes ecosystem (iirc) 00:56:10 do we have to talk about pipes in here :'( 00:56:27 shachaf: do you hate pipes? 00:58:13 i hate everything, remember 00:58:46 shachaf even hates hating everything 00:59:49 shachaf also hates the player *and* the game. 01:01:20 hatepipe would be a good name for a band 01:01:50 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:02:04 `log good name for a band 01:02:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:02:34 `pastelog name for a band 01:02:36 No output. 01:02:39 `run cd wisdom; ls | shuf -n 1 01:02:39 ???? 01:02:40 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead. 01:02:52 DUH 01:02:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15313 01:03:29 gütenbørg would be a good name for a band <-- i concur 01:03:50 Bike: your endoding is showing 01:03:54 cüncur 01:04:05 *c 01:04:22 fuck the web 01:04:25 that's how codu presents the file to me. 01:04:28 als Gregor FIX YOUR SERVER 01:04:49 is an endoding when you ding yourself 01:05:52 shachaf: bossibly 01:07:17 `quote name for a band 01:07:18 1012) "would be a good name for a band when preceded by its quotation" would be a good name for a band when preceded by its quotation 01:07:58 kmc: It's not the server, it's Mercurial, and I have no idea how to make Mercurial do it right. Nor do I care enough to look into it. 01:08:51 well thanks for giving us something to blame at least 01:08:56 let's burn an effigy 01:11:04 use a proxy or something 01:11:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEzhxP-pdos 01:11:29 a reverse proxy just to change the Content-type header 01:20:09 @tell boily shuf is borken. <-- i think your diagnosis is wrong hth 01:20:10 Consider it noted. 01:24:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:32:17 -!- Bike has joined. 01:43:13 finally got around to the thing i was going to look up "Therefore, all embassies to the Holy See are located in Rome making Vatican City one of only two sovereign states, the other being Liechtenstein, with no resident embassies located within its territory." 01:44:50 -!- muskrat has joined. 02:20:01 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:35:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:58:33 -!- prooftechnique has quit. 03:07:47 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:09:45 Yesod uses Blaze for HTML generation by default? 03:09:47 :/ :/ 03:31:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:09:34 -!- conehead has joined. 04:18:27 -!- Bike has joined. 04:22:16 -!- augur has joined. 04:23:13 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:23:19 -!- augur has joined. 04:24:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:24:30 -!- augur has joined. 04:25:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:40 -!- augur has joined. 04:27:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:28:10 -!- augur has joined. 04:29:41 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:29:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:37:30 why does twitter think i should follow @SailorMoonFic 04:44:23 maybe it thinks you're tuxedo mask? 04:47:19 idgi 04:48:25 "As a soft introduction to our approach, we implement the single, 04:48:25 simplest effect: obtaining a (dynamically-bound) Int value from" 04:48:31 I can think of a monad simpler than Reader 04:50:01 id 04:50:59 what about data M a = M 04:51:05 simpler imo 04:51:12 maybe it's not an "effect" tho 04:51:38 suppressing all computation seems like an effect to me 04:51:49 I guess there are even lazy and strict variants of that monad? 04:51:51 is that like the monadic equivalent of the zero function 04:52:16 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 04:55:09 also i figured out how to get xilinx to tell me what it's synthesizing 04:55:22 ais was right, half the report is "we found a multiplexor, you stupid human" 05:11:10 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:23:28 -!- muskrat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:31:10 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:41:52 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:45:41 oh sweet, the manual has a full listing of the logic table for a six input lut 05:46:14 000000: INIT[0]. 000001: INIT[1] ... 111111: INIT[63]. 06:04:40 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:05:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:31:27 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: No route to host). 06:41:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:04:18 asdjfajsdfhajklsdfhajdfhlaksjdfhasjkldfhlasjkfaksljfhalkjsdfhsakfjhlafhalksfdjhalksjdfhlaskjdfhalkjdf 07:04:24 yeah 07:05:14 > sort "asdjfajsdfhajklsdfhajdfhlaksjdfhasjkldfhlasjkfaksljfhalkjsdfhsakfjhlafhalksfdjhalksjdfhlaskjdfhalkjdf" 07:05:15 "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddfffffffffffffffhhhhhhhhhhhhjjjjjjjjjjjjjjkkkkkkk... 07:05:21 The equivalent of gensym for Template Haskell can capture other names 07:05:26 hilarious 07:05:59 i'm worryingly close to thinking that i'll be able to get this audio jack out. i am mad with power and cannot be stopped. 07:06:41 what does "capturing a name" mean 07:10:26 Not totally sure, the example makes little sense to me 07:10:27 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/template-haskell-2.8.0.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH.html 07:10:31 newName 07:11:09 why would you put a line of crap into irc because of something offending you if you don't even understand the example 07:12:44 Because I understand the example well enough to see it could cause pain (although also not sure about how much) 07:13:04 As in, not sure if normal names in Haskell are more like mkName or more like newName 07:13:08 isn't irc supposed to be the international repository of craps? 07:13:33 actually, looking at it, it does seem silly, but whatever it's template haskell 07:14:13 i don't know why everyone has such a big problem just having symbols be identifiers without doing all this weird stuff 07:17:03 but then i also don't know why xilinx apparently won't let me export a schematic. 07:17:29 It would be ... polite ... if the TH API docs actually said that {} indicates what the example relates to 07:17:39 (phrasing it better than I just did ofc) 07:20:34 It does, in one place 07:25:19 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:29:08 -!- augur has joined. 07:32:23 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:04:47 I have an idea 08:05:06 How about we create a language for finite state machine 08:07:52 there are many of those 08:07:55 for example http://www.complang.org/ragel/ 08:08:03 Ok... 08:08:59 that looks so much better than lex, jesus 08:09:16 yeah 08:09:43 oh HarfBuzz uses Ragel? cool 08:10:02 is that a company, a program, or a medical condition 08:10:06 HarfBuzz is a library with a stupid name that most people haven't heard of 08:10:12 Can I make my own? 08:10:19 but it's responsible for like, most text rendering in open source software 08:10:59 I did know HarfBuzz uses Ragel, but why does it use that? Unicode bidirectional algorithm? 08:11:06 your own what, fsm layout thingie? sure, probably educational 08:11:08 i don't know 08:15:08 -!- augur_ has joined. 08:15:53 writing your own regex implementation is fun too 08:16:04 plus, you pretty much can't possibly make the syntax worse 08:16:22 -!- Sorella has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:16:26 required reading http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp2.html http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp3.html 08:16:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:16:44 -!- Sorella has joined. 08:17:20 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 08:17:20 -!- Sorella has joined. 08:17:21 oops i didn't know there were parts two and three >_> 08:19:05 and part four. http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp4.html 08:19:18 ooh 08:19:20 hey the unicode thing is cool. 08:23:27 I think that article was my first exposure to the slow method for regexp matching 08:34:29 "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bubble: Airbnb's new office has a replica of the Dr. Strangelove war room" 08:56:23 -!- carado has joined. 09:17:45 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:51:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:09:35 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:28:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:32:39 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:43:16 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 11:45:18 -!- Sellyme has joined. 11:54:05 “Finns are such a jealous people we are jealous for Scots being the world’s most jealous people.” 11:56:14 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 11:58:19 -!- Sellyme has joined. 12:00:40 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 12:02:19 -!- Sellyme has joined. 12:45:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:50:58 -!- muskrat has joined. 12:51:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:58:20 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:58:55 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 12:58:55 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:03:07 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:15 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:19:23 Hey, that http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html example is a wrong. 13:19:29 (I also didn't know about part 4.) 13:20:34 "The following sections present an implementation written in portable ANSI C." "struct State { int c; State *out; State *out1; int lastlist; };" That's not C at all. 13:21:38 (It's missing the "struct" keyword for out/out1, and it does that same thing for all the types, and all member/variable declarations it shows.) 13:23:33 The downloadable version has separate typedefs, so I guess you could argue it's only showing an excerpt. 13:23:44 -!- yorick has joined. 13:23:53 yeah, it probably has a separate typedef above 13:26:54 good typedefllä morning! 13:26:59 @messages-loud 13:26:59 mrhmouse said 15h 1m 10s ago: "Marble Hornets" is supposedly good, according to my SO. I haven't watched it, myself. 13:26:59 mrhmouse said 14h 59m 11s ago: Ignore that; I collect socks. 13:26:59 oerjan said 12h 6m 49s ago: shuf is borken. <-- i think your diagnosis is wrong hth 13:27:52 @tell mrhmouse I won't ignore the sock collection. 13:27:52 Consider it noted. 13:28:19 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:28:36 @tell oerjan shuf is borken. <-- i think your diagnosis is wrong hth <-- So what was it, then? 13:28:37 Consider it noted. 13:31:08 -!- realzies has joined. 13:32:02 boily: I'm still not oerjan, but it was the special-casing of 'ls' in wisdom. 13:32:02 @messages-cold 13:32:02 oerjan said 12h 48m 52s ago: ...or however you produced the list of ignored nicks <-- i think it's a fizzie-only command. 13:32:29 `run cd wisdom; ls | shuf -n 1 13:32:31 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead. 13:32:40 `run \? As whatever whatever whatever 13:32:42 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 13:32:44 See above. 13:33:12 ^ignore 13:33:12 ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|cuttlefish|ruddy)! 13:33:12 No clue what you mean. What do you think, fungot? 13:33:47 (It is a fizzie-only command, yes, though in retrospect maybe it might not need to be. Especially the query side of it.) 13:34:24 Oh, so I did remember the command name right, then 13:38:25 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:50:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:00:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:01:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:01:44 `tanebventions 14:01:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tanebventions: not found 14:01:49 `? tanebventions 14:01:51 Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, and Go. 14:01:57 `? chu spaces 14:01:59 A Chu space is just a matrix. Taneb invented them, then Chu stole his invention. 14:02:38 Also aaaaaaaaaaaaaah 14:02:52 I need to get familiar with INTERCAL 72 very quickly! 14:08:06 `run sed -i 's/modules/&, Chu spaces/' wisdom/tanebventions 14:08:07 sed: can't read wisdom/tanebventions: No such file or directory 14:08:27 -!- Halite has joined. 14:09:07 `run ls wisdom/*vention* 14:09:09 wisdom/tanebvention 14:09:18 `run sed -i 's/modules/&, Chu spaces/' wisdom/tanebvention 14:09:22 No output. 14:09:28 `? tanebvention 14:09:29 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, and Go. 14:10:04 -!- L8D has joined. 14:11:59 -!- L8D_ has joined. 14:12:04 ♪ pdfnouncement ♪ I split the places into their own chapter. 14:12:05 Taneb: the one with the worms and unascii characters? 14:12:05 -!- Halite[tablet] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:12:06 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:12:09 -!- Halite has changed nick to Halite[tablet]. 14:12:21 boily: aye 14:16:00 Things were more interesting when you could backspace to overstrike characters 14:16:50 ȼ 14:18:14 /^H\ 14:18:56 surely there must be some terminal emulators that support this. 14:18:58 I wonder if a unicode codepoint for "overstrike next character on top of previous one" would make sense 14:19:29 (line printer emulator?) 14:20:40 test: /\ 14:22:15 I sent «/\b\\», it appears as «mMsg = "test: /\b\\"» from metasepia's logs, but it gets displayed as «/ \» in weechat. I am disappoint. 14:23:08 (my?) irssi displays /, then an inverse H, then a \. 14:23:30 (the inverse H is ^H, so you sent what you intended to send) 14:25:32 14:25:56 boily: abandon all hope etc pp. 14:26:13 pp? 14:27:48 there's also \̸, but it's cheating. 14:28:04 et cetera, perge, perge. and so on and so forth. (I had to look it up.) It's moderately common in German, I guess it's not used in English. 14:30:32 tmyk. tdh. ty. 14:31:15 -!- L8D_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:31:55 tdh? 14:32:00 `? tdh 14:32:02 tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 14:32:58 Oh. "did". tdh. 14:36:45 int-e: you speak German? what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 14:37:22 Austria / unknown. 14:38:25 (I'm not fond of being tossed around with catapults. What else would you want to know my weight for?) 14:38:51 to find #esoteric's center of mass. 14:38:55 Naturally. 14:39:09 hah. 14:39:14 @ask ais523 Was Underload intentionally a FALSE subset? 14:39:14 Consider it noted. 14:42:59 @tell ais523 or near-subset 14:42:59 Consider it noted. 14:44:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:54:48 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 14:56:16 ^source 14:56:16 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 14:57:00 we live in a sad world. github doesn't highlight befunge. 14:57:37 Is it even possible to syntax highlight funge nicely 14:57:54 Seeing as something may or may not be part of a string depending on where you are looking 14:58:01 *from which direction 15:00:15 the only solution is to run the code itself and see! 15:00:47 Not only that, but a string could start and end at the same spot 15:00:56 and code could be used both as a string and code 15:04:23 maybe one should apply stochastic highlighting. at least one character is bound to be properly highlighted. 15:04:29 has anybody created an animation of what funge execution looks like? following the IP at a slow enough speed to observe, I mean 15:05:04 there was that editor I used many years ago when I was on Windows. can't remember its name. 15:05:21 it had a very DOSsy feeling, what with white text on a blue background. 15:06:25 mrhmouse: http://www.bedroomlan.org/tools/befunge-93-playground 15:08:59 boily: was it EDIT.COM 15:09:02 FireFly: Exactly what I was looking for :D Thank you! 15:09:41 Maybe you could sort of have lines of execution 15:11:27 nooodl: no, a Windows program, with a toolbar and stuff and lots of blue. you could see the IP go around your program, and the stack at the bottom. 15:12:37 ^ul (")S 15:12:37 " 15:12:44 Oooh, noncompliance 15:14:05 "However, no known interpreter ever, not even the reference interpreter, seems to have implemented any part of this other than the rules about parentheses, and this is therefore arguably not part of the language." 15:14:41 Oooh, ubiquitous noncompliance 15:15:02 I may write a compliant interpreter just for the hell of it 15:15:08 ^ul ([{}])S( complete noncompliance )! 15:15:08 [{}] 15:16:22 you know you're talking to someone serious when they threaten to write something compliant in protest. 15:20:50 Taneb: stop complianing 15:23:27 `addquote I may write a compliant interpreter just for the hell of it Taneb: stop complianing 15:23:31 1142) I may write a compliant interpreter just for the hell of it Taneb: stop complianing 15:25:04 Is Befunge-93 a strict subset of Befunge-98? 15:26:01 FireFly: ♪ dıng ♪ you have an active quote! 15:26:20 boily: what makes a quote 'active'? 15:26:30 Taneb: no 15:26:56 FireFly: oh? 15:27:03 Taneb: for instance, whitespace inside strings in B98 always correspond to exactly one space (à la HTML) whereas in B93 it's treated literally 15:27:06 FireFly: you say something. 15:27:20 Oh, I didn't do that in the others 15:27:31 hm, I think I have one where I /me 15:27:34 (that, and I overlooked your “Meh” uttered in response to oerjan's Standard Flyswatter.) 15:27:40 fair point 15:30:10 Is there an online /// interpreter thingy? 15:37:03 "$88*+3-.@% 15:37:13 should print 93 in befunge-93 and 98 in befunge-98 15:37:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:39:08 `ord % 15:39:09 37 15:39:15 `ord 15:39:16 32 15:39:22 nooodl: subtle. 15:40:03 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:40:55 "++3-.@ % 15:40:58 i like this one even more 15:41:36 > (sum $ map ord " % ") - 3 15:41:37 98 15:41:40 > (sum $ map ord " ") - 3 15:41:41 93 15:47:29 Clever 15:48:15 So, are we golfing "print 93/98 depending on befunge version implemented"? 15:48:32 pretty much so. 15:48:42 next step: a wumpus onëliner. 15:53:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:57:13 what's the metric when golfing befunge? 15:57:36 area covered? 15:58:04 "]b";;.@. 15:58:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:58:20 also cute but no shorter 15:59:24 (in befunge-93, ';' reverses the IP, so the stack becomes "]bb]" and ']'=93 is printed. in befunge-98 the ;; is jumped over) 16:00:15 @messages-good 16:00:15 boily said 2h 31m 38s ago: shuf is borken. <-- i think your diagnosis is wrong hth <-- So what was it, then? 16:00:19 -!- conehead has joined. 16:00:37 @tell boily fizzie is an excellent doctor hth 16:00:37 Consider it noted. 16:01:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:01:21 @tell Ngevd when will I ever see you agaaaaiiiiiin 16:01:21 Consider it noted. 16:01:26 `? Ngevd 16:01:28 ​?w:EȬ;YQn_dw؋މ5u|kXR[6MU“kZe$ 16:03:13 oerjan: hellœrjan. 16:03:22 @messages-orange 16:03:23 Unknown command, try @list 16:03:27 @messages-chicken 16:03:27 Unknown command, try @list 16:03:31 @messages-LOUD 16:03:32 Unknown command, try @list 16:03:35 AAAAURGH! 16:03:39 @messages-messages 16:03:40 Unknown command, try @list 16:03:47 @messages 16:04:00 boily: you only get to change two letters hth 16:04:11 @messages-gouda 16:04:11 You don't have any messages 16:04:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:04:34 nooodl: now that's just cheesy 16:04:53 @messages-godot 16:04:54 Unknown command, try @list 16:04:58 :( 16:05:05 Wait 16:05:09 "loud" is the base 16:05:14 @messages-lotad 16:05:14 You don't have any messages 16:05:22 @messages-lorris 16:05:23 Unknown command, try @list 16:05:25 ... 16:05:29 * boily mapoles lambdabot 16:05:37 b_jonas: I've simply used characters-in-source-code on CGSE; that seems fair to me 16:06:03 boily: the edit distance has to be ≤2 16:06:10 boily: that was four letters hth 16:06:18 edit distance, as in levenshtein? 16:06:25 I think so, yes 16:06:34 @massages-luod 16:06:35 Unknown command, try @list 16:06:38 @messages-luod 16:06:38 You don't have any messages 16:06:49 @messages-luody 16:06:49 Unknown command, try @list 16:07:02 swap doesn't seem to be primitive 16:07:30 FireFly: I see 16:08:05 Taneb: oh, also in -98 ~ and & are specified to act as a mirror after reaching EOF, whereas nothing was specified in -93 I think 16:08:17 Okay 16:09:00 (I'm presenting a talk entitled "A Tour of Esoteric Programming Languages" in just over 3 hours. I'm making sure I'm not saying anything hideously wrong.) 16:10:20 Taneb: oh wow 16:10:42 will it be recorded? 16:11:04 myname: I don't think so 16:11:11 :( 16:11:30 Maybe I can get someone to record it on their phone 16:11:59 Please do 16:13:41 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:14:45 Taneb: your invocation of Ngevd earlier borked tmux :P 16:14:57 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:15:05 mrhmouse: then tmux is bad 16:15:36 Taneb: well it's over PuTTY, so it's entirely possible that I just have PuTTY configured incorrectly 16:15:38 mrhmouse: also sorry 16:16:01 Taneb: no problem; I'm only using tmux to view ruddy's logs 16:16:03 ​then tmux is your invocation of ngevd earlier borked tmux :p hm. trying to start screen in tmux in 16:16:16 mrhmouse: it didn't break _my_ tmux over putty hth 16:16:44 oerjan: what's your remote character set? 16:16:51 3 Hours? 16:16:51 utf-8 16:16:52 o_O 16:17:27 mrhmouse: ok if you're doing it for ruddy's logs then you probably don't have irssi in there too 16:17:28 oerjan: Hmmm, that's the same as mine. And your $TERM? Mine is 'screen' 16:17:31 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 16:17:33 mroman_: it's hat half 7 16:17:35 and irssi does charset fallback 16:17:59 oerjan: nope, I only use IRSSI at home :) I'm using Pidgin here. 16:18:10 Taneb: What? 16:18:13 What's a hat? 16:18:42 `hh a hat is an at 16:18:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hh: not found 16:18:47 :( 16:19:22 `h h? 16:19:23 Can't open h?: No such file or directory. 16:19:31 ...? 16:20:08 mrhmouse: btw iirc tmux always uses screen as its internal $TERM 16:21:30 `h echo hi 16:21:31 Can't open echo hi: No such file or directory. 16:21:35 hmph 16:21:48 `cat bin/h 16:21:49 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -p \ s/([aeiouy])([bcdfghjklmnpqrstvxz])/$1h$2/ig 16:21:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:22:07 oh it's meant to be piped. 16:22:32 `run echo 'hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo' | h 16:22:33 hahtee-hahtee-hahtee-hooo 16:22:46 `? hat 16:22:47 hat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:23:11 `run echo "hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo" >wisdom/hat 16:23:15 No output. 16:23:36 can't keep you unoccupied you know 16:24:03 oerjan: done. you fiend. 16:24:04 oerjan: that's what I thought, too, but I rarely give thought to my $TERM :P 16:25:19 ~metar CYUL 16:25:20 CYUL 051616Z 00000KT 7SM -RA OVC034 03/01 A2981 RMK SC8 -RA INTMT SLP095 16:25:21 boily: yw 16:25:26 ~metar EFHK 16:25:26 EFHK 051620Z 13006KT 9999 FEW020 BKN063 M00/M03 Q0984 NOSIG 16:25:31 ~metar ENVA 16:25:32 ENVA 051620Z VRB01KT 9999 FEW012 BKN047 M05/M07 Q0978 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 34003KT 16:25:33 woohoo! it's warmer here! 16:25:42 *BRRR* 16:25:47 oerjan: ilutpdf. 16:25:59 wat 16:26:05 I like updating the PDF. 16:26:09 g, g 16:26:20 s, hl? 16:26:35 argh!! 16:27:05 so, how's life? 16:27:17 awful thx 16:31:25 troubles with your world domination plans? 16:31:33 ~metar essa 16:31:33 --- Station not found! 16:31:37 ~metar ESSA 16:31:38 ESSA 051620Z 18019KT 9999 FEW040 04/01 Q0974 R01L/710169 R08/710158 R01R/710161 NOSIG 16:32:07 Well there's snow outside 16:32:27 Though I guess maybe not necessarily up where ESSA is 16:33:50 `? a 16:33:52 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 16:33:58 `? cocoonspirator 16:34:00 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in catterpillar silk 16:34:19 `? b 16:34:20 b? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:34:51 boily: the world keeps trying to dominate me instead! 16:35:38 `run rm wisdom/a 16:35:42 No output. 16:36:11 oerjan: the horror! how is your personal identity affected ? 16:36:45 you removed the one which wasn't misspelled hth 16:37:12 `run sed -i 's/catt/cat/' wisdom/cocoonspirator 16:37:16 No output. 16:38:44 `learn A is _not_ a town in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 16:38:49 I knew that. 16:40:01 Å is a town in Norway? 16:40:06 `learn A is _not_ a village in Norway, unless you're the BBC and don't understand things on top of letters. 16:40:10 I knew that. 16:40:17 FireFly: ok, a village then 16:41:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85,_Moskenes 16:42:23 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85_(disambiguation) has plenty 16:42:55 Looks like there's an Å in Sweden and one in Denmark too 16:51:40 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:52:00 `unidecode 16:52:02 ​[U+000F DUNNO] 16:56:05 `? tmyk 16:56:07 tmyk? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:57:11 `learn tmyk the more overfilled your brain gets. 16:57:16 I knew that. 17:05:38 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:06:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:06:50 `quote 1142 17:06:51 1142) I may write a compliant interpreter just for the hell of it Taneb: stop complianing 17:08:22 @tell gregor please fix the logs not to merge duplicate spaces, it's making quotes look like they're not qdbformat compliant hth 17:08:23 Consider it noted. 17:10:30 @tell taneb Is there an online /// interpreter thingy? <-- EgoBot has !slashes 17:10:30 Consider it noted. 17:10:53 !slashes /X/World!/Hello, X 17:10:56 Hello, World! 17:13:46 `quote meh 17:13:47 57) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies \ 78) I seem to think of coaxial cables as being omnipotent somehow. \ 598) Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge \ 1081) my emergency contacts list somehow has my father listed in both slots, in one of them as my d 17:14:59 b_jonas: I have some small progress on the nega-Zeckendorf front; empirically, carries from addition and subtraction are limited to -1, 0, 1 in that case as well. I have not yet proved it, but I expect it won't be hard. 17:16:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Etc. pp.). 17:17:01 (where a "carry" now is adding the pattern -1,+1,+1 (positive) or +1,-1,-1 (negative) at some position.) 17:20:27 Oh, I should add (no pun intended) that in my current representation, the least significant bits are currently to the left. 17:30:55 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:33:04 -!- ^v has joined. 17:34:22 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:34:49 -!- augur has joined. 17:38:33 * quintopia shuns the little-endian 17:39:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:39:42 quintopia, little-endian is best endian 17:40:16 How so? 17:40:43 Phantom__Hoover: Queen would disagree 17:56:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:01:10 little-endian is nasty. big-endian is dumb. middle-endian all the way! 18:03:04 Shouldn't there be uhm 18:03:22 1*2*3*4 = 24 possible endiannesses? 18:03:38 for 32bit values at least 18:03:41 are we talking about Lilliputians 18:03:53 mroman_: Only if you consider the bytes 18:03:55 Bitwise... 18:04:06 32! is probably pretty big 18:04:35 32! is 263130836933693530167218012160000000 18:04:40 Oh ok 18:04:44 So not *that* big at all 18:05:13 I don't think you understand scale. Remember our number system is logarithmic 18:05:16 That is pretty huge 18:05:40 What 18:05:42 pfshaw. I decree that number to be small. 18:05:46 big is > 2**128 18:06:21 !python reduce(lambda a,b: a*b, range(1,33)) > 2**128 18:06:22 No output. 18:06:29 2**128 is 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 18:06:30 !python print (reduce(lambda a,b: a*b, range(1,33)) > 2**128) 18:06:31 False 18:06:37 boily: what do you mean small? there are seven zeroes at the end! 18:06:47 (that makes it an 8 digit number) 18:06:49 2**128 is bigger than 32! 18:06:56 FreeFull: Obviously 18:07:11 2**x for x > 32 is always bigger than 32 18:07:48 olsner: zeroes don't mean nothing. that's why they are zeroes. 18:08:06 Well, 32 is 2**5 18:08:17 So any x > 5 will do 18:08:18 boily: they mean stuff when you put them next to numbers on the right end 18:08:50 -!- conehead has joined. 18:09:15 log(x)/log(x^2) . 18:09:53 mroman_: 0.5. 18:11:27 -!- augur has joined. 18:12:53 yeah 18:12:58 I wish I never learnt that car scenes in old movies are shot in a stationary car in front of a projected background 18:13:08 I use it as a random function 18:14:24 wat/win 8 18:14:28 gna 18:15:40 due to floating point errors 18:16:28 myname: ... wut??????? 18:16:33 and apparently michael caine was young once, that's a bit unsettling 18:17:04 boily: happens sometimes if i try using irc via a really crappy smartphone 18:18:14 one reason to learn Chinese: you can draw the characters on the phone! 18:19:07 i can draw normal letters now, too 18:19:42 normål lettërs are borįng. 18:21:48 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 18:22:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:23:35 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Client Quit). 18:23:43 ńóŕḿáĺ? 18:23:54 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:33:48 -!- Bike has joined. 18:49:05 FreeFull: ǹòr̀m̀àl̀. 18:51:24 http://mathoverflow.net/questions/53122/mathematical-urban-legends/53172#53172 18:55:08 normal schmormal 18:59:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:02:25 int-e: re nega-zeckendorf, nice. can you subtract in normal zeckendorf though? 19:03:12 b_jonas: in principle, yes. I don't have the code. 19:04:24 int-e: because I believe subtraction is possible but I don't know if it can be done the same way as addition 19:04:36 probably can, if you do negative carries too 19:04:39 ṅȯṙṃạḷ 19:04:48 b_jonas: there are negative carries in addition, too 19:05:30 int-e: sort of, yes, but the digits of the intermediate result don't become negative 19:06:28 b_jonas: I'll probably work a bit on this coming weekend. For now, all I can say is that I'm convinced that the same principle works. 19:06:52 ok 19:06:56 nice 19:09:06 this probably means that in principle you could implement a serial computer alu with zeckendorf or nega-zeckendorf representation instead of binary, as long as you want integers only 19:09:37 oh by the way 19:09:41 * boily applies a diactriticised kij klonowy onto FreeFull 19:09:53 int-e: there's one more thing that I think you could do with fibonacci numbers 19:10:11 int-e: do you know fibonacci-search (instead of binary search) of a list? Knuth describes it 19:10:52 I think you could do a twin-block allocator (malloc or allocation inside a file) using fibonacci-sized blocks instead of powers of two in a similar way 19:11:09 it wouldn't be worth, because binary twin-block is much easier, but it would be funny 19:13:41 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has joined. 19:14:56 *checks* "... avoid the division by 2 ...", ok, fairly pointless nowadays :) 19:14:56 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:15:06 int-e: of course it is! 19:17:42 The pattern was clear, but I didn't know why one would do this. The idea may still be useful for other searching problems. For example, finding the minimum of a sequence that is strictly decreasing first, and later strictly increasing, with only one change in monotonicity. (The point is that if you have a > b < c, you cannot discard any of the points yet, and with the golden ratio, you can easily add another point between a... 19:17:48 ...and b or b and c) 19:19:33 b_jonas: oh and fibonacci numbers will be awful for satisfying modern CPU's alignment constraints :) 19:20:09 nah, that's not the biggest problem, you can satisfy alignment by aligning afterwards 19:20:44 it is /a/ problem. 19:21:08 but yeah, if you did it in a file then the blocks wouldn't be aligned to sectors on the disk 19:21:33 I agree that it could be fun. Just not very useful. *checks channel name* not that this is relevant here. 19:21:53 helloily 19:22:01 quinthellopia. 19:22:09 but yeah, while I know many cases where you could theoretically use a fibonacci version instead of a binary version, I don't know any case where the fibonacci version is more useful 19:22:18 did you translate the card 19:22:19 quintopia: the postcard, it was typed and translated. 19:22:23 kk 19:22:31 (or, really, many other versions) 19:22:33 any mistakes? 19:23:02 -!- carado has joined. 19:23:13 if there were any, I canceled them when transcribing its content. 19:23:40 now, I have to find a particularly obtruse language to reply you with back :D 19:24:23 "obtruse" sounds like "unimplemented" 19:25:08 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:25:25 also, i like this idea of "pen pals who could actually talk to each other on IRC any day of the week but choose to spend money on international postage instead" 19:27:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:35:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:38:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:41:25 Is there a term (besides "functional") for the programming style where you avoid { mutations, creating variables, control structures } and instead express things as function calls? 19:42:25 function-levle programming? (old skool, yo) 19:42:28 most people would use "functional" for that, yeah 19:42:35 but maybe "declarative" too, depending 19:42:51 for one, it depends what you mean by "variables" and "control structures" 19:43:48 kmc: by "variables" I mean anything outside of function parameters, and by "control structures" I mean the constructs of loops and conditionals 19:44:09 okay 19:44:19 loops and conditionals are pretty basic boring control structures ;) 19:44:44 wasn't there a rant that surface recently on the intarwebs saying that “declarative” doesn't mean anythin? 19:44:51 s/ce\b/ced/ 19:44:56 heh 19:45:03 see i would level that criticism more at "functional" 19:45:08 nothing means anything and we are all together 19:45:20 let's argue about whether code which uses first class continuations for control is "functional" 19:45:34 they break equational reasoning pretty badly, I think 19:47:20 int-e: do you know that math problem where you have k eggs and a skyscraper, you have to determine the exact lowest storey where the egg splats if you throw it from the window, minimize the total number of throws worst case? 19:48:22 int-e: it turns out that you can do it in n tries you can do n choose k or n+k choose k or something like that stories. 19:48:24 i do so hate that problem 19:48:45 int-e: maybe fibonacci search could have some similar interpretation 19:48:49 we had that problem in algo class (with coconuts) and my friend actually tossed some coconuts off the CS building 19:49:04 god, that was the ugliest fucking building on campus 19:49:05 kmc: wow 19:49:12 kmc: isn't that dangerous in real life/ 19:49:13 i hope it's been demolished by now 19:49:21 like, if the coconut hits someone in the head? 19:49:36 b_jonas: I mean you probably need someone on the ground to make sure people don't walk into the drop zone 19:50:44 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:52:37 int-e: hmm, I think it's actually (n choose k) + (n choose k-1) + ... + (n choose 1) + (n choose 0) or something similar 19:53:18 minus some constant 19:53:27 depending on how you count the stories 19:55:11 mrhmouse: pure? 19:55:14 b_jonas: is there a problem variant that accounts for "skipped" stories? (4, 13... I can't think of any others) 19:55:53 dunno 19:55:55 FreeFull: I've always thought of "pure" meaning no side-effects in function calls (what D calls pure), but with no restraints inside the function for mutation of variables, etc 19:56:07 mrhmouse: You can simply factor in the skipped stories afterwards 19:56:14 FreeFull: I'll go look up "pure programming", though :) devlaritve wasn't it 19:56:27 I don't even know whether we skip story numbers in here, because there are very few buildings that would have a 13th storey in first place 19:56:37 mrhmouse: I guess it's externally pure vs internally pure or something like that 19:57:00 s/vlarit/clariti/ 19:57:22 mrhmouse: heh 19:57:37 the samsung office building i worked from for a week skipped both 4 and 13 19:57:40 very multicultural 20:00:35 quintopia: I fear I may be a little bit too hipster when it comes to stationary and stuff used to colourify it. I'm a fountain pen user, I buy notebooks with quality paper, I have more ink than I need for a few lifetimes... 20:03:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:03:28 boily: how do you feel about fountain pens with onboard ink repositories? 20:03:47 boily: as opposed to, say, an ink well that you refill at 20:07:36 mrhmouse: the one I use the most has cartridges. other than that pen, I have one where you use a «compte-gouttes» to drip ink into its body, one with an adapter cartridge with a siphon, and one with a pressure pouch. 20:10:10 "MS experts: can anyone tell me how to insert a Powerpoint slide into a Word document such that it is rotated 90 degrees?" 20:29:26 -!- jsvine has joined. 20:29:40 `ello jsvine 20:29:43 jsvinello 20:29:50 jsvine: long time no see! 20:31:13 ello! 20:31:20 Yes, s'been a while. 20:31:32 Got wrapped up with a big project, then went on vacation. 20:32:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:32:26 What'd I miss? 20:33:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:33:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:35:59 -!- muskrat has joined. 20:36:08 jsvine: plenty of things, silly discussions, world domination plans, the regular... 20:36:44 boily: Sounds like my FOMO was fully justified. 20:36:52 (also, shameless plug: please take a look at the PDF → https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf) 20:37:09 ~duck FOMO 20:37:09 --- No relevant information 20:37:14 jsvine: what's a fomo? 20:37:50 boily: "Fear Of Missing Out": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_missing_out 20:38:00 oh. indeed. 20:39:10 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:40:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:40:23 My talk went alright 20:40:47 good :) 20:40:54 I was kind of nervous and didn't really know what I was doing, though 20:41:31 It has been recorded, but it's not online yet 20:45:29 hmm, lots of these phantom hoover quotes that I don't recall seeing before before are great 20:45:49 `quote Phantom_Hoov 20:45:51 108) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. \ 112) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just ste 20:46:24 boily: if you need a g/f i know a girl who likes tea and fountain pens 20:48:44 quintopia: sorry, I already have one, who incidentally likes tea and fountain pens :) 20:49:23 boily: cool. did she get you interested or v/v or was it just mutual from the beginning? 20:50:23 quintopia: pretty much mutual. 20:50:45 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/aliens-on-the-loose-in-cardiff-8544532.html 20:52:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:55:37 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 20:58:27 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:00:13 maybe the HackEgo section including all quotes involving other quotes is redundant 21:00:55 ais523, hi 21:01:00 hi Taneb 21:01:03 * ais523 is back in the UK again 21:01:11 Yay 21:01:17 I didn't realise you ever weren't 21:01:32 Also this evening I presented a short talk on esolangs and it was scary 21:02:36 boily: re (By the way, what with the pineapples?) - apparently pineapples are a "running gag" in Psych (although not in a way you'd notice without reading about it first) 21:03:07 psych, as in that weird online RPG? 21:03:12 Bike: VHDL does let you parameterize bus widths, although the syntax is bizarre 21:03:20 boily: nah, the TV series 21:03:25 Taneb: no, not intentionally, but it's not surprising 21:03:38 olsner: oh. 21:04:33 (meanwhile, finally managed to compile ocharles' latest article → http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/posts/2013-12-05-24-days-of-hackage-scotty.html) 21:04:57 ais523: i'm used to hdl syntax being bizarre by now :( 21:06:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:06:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:09:05 `run cp wisdom/døsthiswork wisdom/døsthiswørk 21:09:08 No output. 21:09:15 `run cp wisdom/doesthiswork wisdom/døsthiswork 21:09:19 No output. 21:10:27 `run cat wisdom/Everyone | tr a-z A-Z > wisdom/EVERYONE 21:10:31 cat: wisdom/Everyone: No such file or directory 21:10:57 hmm, how does the case stuff work again 21:11:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:12:38 `which CAT 21:12:39 No output. 21:13:19 `? EVERYONE 21:13:21 Everyone in here is mad. 21:13:34 olsner: I think ? lowercases its input, unfortunately 21:13:54 yep, it's done in ? indeed 21:15:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:15:55 boily: is demoiselle a word or truncated mademoiselle? 21:16:08 olsner: it's a word. 21:16:18 meanwhile, new repo! https://github.com/pfcuttle/twentyfour-2013 21:16:46 the longer one means something like "my" demoiselle then? or they're both used? 21:17:16 demoiselle is just the personne, mademoiselle is the address, as with monsieur, madame, etc. 21:17:39 oh, and those are my sir, my dame? 21:19:13 fr:monsieur → en:mister, fr:madame → en:mrs, fr:mademoiselle → en:miss. 21:19:32 there was a controversy about the usage of «mademoiselle» last year. 21:19:47 I know what the words *mean*, but I'm trying to make sense of them 21:20:22 -!- Bike has joined. 21:20:52 oh. well, in that case, you tries are correct. 21:21:01 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:21:15 «monsieur» → «mon sieur» → «mon seigneur». 21:21:26 «madame» is straightforward. 21:22:24 there was also «damoiseau» (masc. version of demoiselle). that one disappeared a long, long time ago. 21:25:44 boily: wait what? 21:25:54 boily: isn't damoiselle derived from dame? 21:25:59 how can it have a male version? 21:26:34 maybe it's de mois elle and de mois eau? 21:26:54 olsner: hmm 21:27:24 where "mois" would mean what? 21:27:29 and eau might be an alternate spelling if il or whatever the masculing third person is in french 21:27:46 sure, eau is clear, there's a pronoun eaux 21:27:54 but what is mois? 21:28:59 me, mine, to me, month, something 21:29:09 ok, it's not derived from dame, but I don't think it's related to de moise either 21:29:38 eaux??? 21:29:59 bourd eaux 21:30:10 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:30:11 just kidding, I know approx. 0 french 21:30:14 ooh, and damsel is another spelling of demoiselle 21:30:17 at most 21:30:26 yeah, sorry 21:30:30 obviously it's not "eaux" 21:30:34 that wouldn't make sense... 21:31:05 the pronoun is "eux", not "eaux" 21:31:12 http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/damoiseau 21:31:22 there is some weird fungot going on with those words... 21:31:23 boily: the migration is reversed of yours. signed: anonymous' text.) hmm... long digression in any case, i should 21:31:43 fungot: you definitely should. 21:31:43 FireFly: nope. haskell. 21:32:01 fungot: is this some kind of functional-programmer "chuck testa" thing? 21:32:01 FireFly: and in fnord we needed a nickname, so we know when one of your friends? -g ( was that good grammer?) 21:32:28 fungot: it wasn't very good grammer, no, I'm sorry. You need to markov your sentences better 21:32:29 FireFly: how so? it could be hacked up using forth execution tokens...) is relying on implicit program state where none was necessary. the same can be said of scheme. 21:32:41 Good suggestion 21:33:00 fizzie: you should apparently hack up fungot's chat code using forth execution tokens 21:33:00 FireFly: i can't say whether someone is using it right now tho 21:33:16 fungot: fair enough. 21:34:21 domina/dominus -> diminutive +cella/us -> fudge some letters -> damoiseau/elle 21:37:23 fungot french 21:37:24 olsner: the bot is not an oversight that they were thinking " what the hell does one implement a script language anyway 21:44:00 fungot: what did I say about being sentient? 21:44:00 boily: i am not easy to find the equivalent of developing at the lisp repl. 21:47:01 the equivalent of developing fungot at the lisp repl? hmm... 21:47:01 olsner: ' while true: pass', fnord seconds 21:47:49 fnord must be a huge number 21:48:04 fnord seconds are not like other seconds 21:49:26 ^source 21:49:27 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 21:58:13 uh oh, there are now monad *video* tutorials 21:58:34 just a soothing voice and face reading maclane out loud 21:59:14 the floating head of arthur frayn explains monads 21:59:29 how many fnord seconds in a megalun? 22:00:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:00:34 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:01:39 I want the floating heads of zardoz to explain monads 22:04:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:04:47 shachaf: in Rust you can't always transform a struct field access to a call to an accessor function :/ 22:05:04 kmc: What do you mean? 22:05:25 because &self.x will only borrow that field but self.get_x() will borrow the whole thing (fn get_x<'t>(&'t self) -> &'t whatever) 22:05:39 Oh, hmm. 22:06:03 that seems like a thing that should be not the case 22:06:06 Oh yeah, that reminds 22:06:06 me 22:06:24 so introducing such a get_x (because you want to add an assertion, for example) can require nontrivial changes to all the users of that field :/ 22:06:33 my solution was to write a macro instead :3 22:06:42 macro cat is watching you abstract syntactically 22:08:05 i think there's an interesting interplay between macros and static vs. dynamic checking in the design space of programming languages 22:09:08 macros are a form of abstraction which defers static checking until the abstraction is used 22:10:11 So are C++ templates, sort of. 22:10:22 which means they are more necessary in static languages, but also you lose more by using them vs. alternatives 22:11:10 yeah, C++ templates are a macro system for the purposes of this point 22:11:27 although I'm starting to appreciate more and more how they can do things that macro systems can't and also things that traditional polymorphism can't 22:11:33 they are a really strange and unique feature 22:11:37 * kmc <3 C++ 22:11:47 it's such a hot mess 22:11:54 which things are you thinking of 22:14:32 cool i have a circuit working that i can't simulate correctly 22:14:40 kmc: what's a thing templates can do that macros can't? 22:15:24 they're wired into the type system so they can introspect on types 22:15:44 meaning what exactly 22:16:43 -!- muskrat has joined. 22:16:48 they're sort of logic programming pattern matching on types to decide which bit of code to generate 22:17:03 you can write a class template which does something different when its type argument is a reference, vs. a struct, vs. an int 22:17:05 oh, so you generate ifferent code for classes and integers, sorta thing? 22:17:08 right 22:17:11 and you can do these things recursively to deconstruct types 22:17:34 I think the key language features enabling this are template specialization, function overloading, and SFINAE 22:17:39 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_failure_is_not_an_error) 22:18:11 so for example there's a standard library of "type traits" (http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/type_traits/), predicates about types which can be used to direct template expansion 22:18:15 SFINAE is pretty much backtracking, I think 22:21:49 oh and with constexpr you can do plenty of straightforward compile-time computation on these things, as well 22:22:55 Taneb: what were you reminded of? 22:26:04 <_46bit> Evening 22:26:21 `welcome _46bit 22:26:23 _46bit: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:26:24 <_46bit> Had a bit of fun listening to Taneb talk about esolangs earlier :-) 22:26:30 nice 22:26:36 did you plug our channel Taneb? :) 22:26:57 <_46bit> He did, classily. 22:26:58 also is there a record of the talk online (e.g. slides)? 22:27:27 <_46bit> kmc: We videod it, will be online tonight or tomorrow 22:27:42 <_46bit> I hadn't come across Slashes before but it looks like the esolang for me 22:27:52 what's taneb talk about again. something about haskell cellular automata 22:28:14 <_46bit> Bike: (in)formally entitled A Tour Of Esoteric Programming Languages 22:28:36 <_46bit> There's something wonderfully entertaining to my mind about a program that self-modifies to do even the simplest things 22:28:56 haha 22:28:59 i think i figured out why my test wasn't working. i didn't have an initialization for a register. in the actual circuit there was some default initialization but the simulator ain't having none of that shit so it just floated everything like an asshole 22:29:04 then you'll like my upcoming blog post _46bit 22:29:08 is slashes ///? 22:29:12 <_46bit> Bike: yeah 22:29:17 yeah good language 22:29:19 <_46bit> kmc :) 22:29:20 indeed 22:29:40 Taneb is p. famous here for inventing d-modules and other things 22:29:40 _46bit: it's about how x86 is turing complete with no registers, as long as you allow self-modification of operands 22:29:54 though i don't think of it for the self-modification so much as demonstrating The Awesome Power of Grammar 22:29:59 Bike: ah yeah a plague of ?'s 22:30:15 <_46bit> I had some fun considering integer incrementation during the talk actually 22:30:20 kmc: i hope you tie this into the fun vax addressing mode 22:30:30 fax addressing mode 22:30:34 Bike: i should mention it at least 22:30:38 I failed to find info on that, though 22:30:46 I think VAX gives x86 a run for its money as far as CISCiness goes 22:30:47 i think it's pretty much what it sounds like. 22:30:55 <_46bit> shachaf: indeed, apparently he invented d-modules when he was older 22:31:06 and also chu spaces (the best thing) 22:31:10 vax had polynomial evaluation and my professor wrote binary search as an instruction, i fucking love that 22:32:03 not that polys are remotely hard but stilllll 22:33:25 hm nope everything's still floating. wonder what i fucked up. 22:33:40 #drugz 22:35:20 Bike: you should fix the floating things 22:35:24 how does "binary search as an instruction" work 22:35:29 thanks firefly. 22:35:45 kmc: presumably like the x86 string copy instructions 22:36:03 used microcode. i don't know the details. 22:36:05 ah 22:36:13 was user microcode upload a supported feature? 22:36:35 no, he had to steal an undocument from a company technician :D 22:36:40 haha 22:37:09 he xeroxed it and bound it in some ripped up jeans of his girlfriend's, is what he said 22:37:15 somethin like that 22:37:47 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:38:25 <_46bit> Haha, I wish someone did that for modern CPUs. 22:38:40 i really wish these synthesis tools would give me more errors instead of blithely letting me design circuits that only work by accident 22:38:51 put your circuit near a source of RF noise 22:38:59 That sounds familiar 22:39:05 the xerox-and-ripped-jeans part 22:39:14 i've mentioned it before, probably 22:39:27 i'm reasonably sure he wasn't making this up since he passed the thing around, btw 22:39:44 _46bit: do what, put together an undocumented behavior guide? 22:40:26 <_46bit> yup 22:40:45 <_46bit> Although in fairness, people get legal threats over ARM simulators let alone that. 22:40:53 documentation of all documents that do not document themselves 22:40:55 doesn't uh, what's his name, the x86 micro guy pretty much cover that 22:41:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:41:34 alternately the four thousand page optimization manuals 22:41:44 agner, that dude. 22:43:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:43:12 good news i fixed the floating. and the problem was what i thought. these tools cost like a billion dollars, they oughta be able to tell me not initializing an output register is stupid 22:47:40 -!- jsvine has joined. 22:48:58 -!- jsvine has left. 22:49:52 > fix cos :: Floating a => a 22:49:56 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:50:18 Bike: you're better than lambdabot at fixing the floating 22:50:40 nope i'm in circuit mode, i can't think about iterated trig functions 22:50:54 though sine does have one obvious fixed point. 22:52:21 <...> we need a #haskell-oldboys 22:52:31 * shachaf sighs. 22:52:59 opped by haskell curry 22:53:35 <_46bit> I had some fun considering integer incrementation during the talk actually <-- been there done that http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#itflabtijtslwi (that's /// with a minor addition to allow input) 22:54:38 <_46bit> oerjan: Is that a /// implementation in Deadfish? 22:56:22 hm jsvine was here earlier 22:56:52 _46bit: other way round 22:57:02 you can't implement /// in Deadfish 22:57:20 you basically can't implement anything in Deadfish, apart from programs to print out constant lists of numbers 22:59:18 *numbers other than 256 22:59:31 <_46bit> ais523: oh yes, is Deadfish not turing-complete? 22:59:47 _46bit: it's not really anything-complete 22:59:49 _46bit: it's about as un-turing-complete as you get 22:59:52 <_46bit> :) 22:59:59 it isn't even truth-machine-complete 23:00:20 i dunno, programs that just output numbers can be interesting. 23:00:57 oerjan: oh right, you can't write 256 23:01:11 this reminds me of that hello world program in Radixal!!!! 23:01:28 the person who wrote it commented on how ridiculous it was to have a language that had both input and output, but couldn't do cat 23:03:46 _46bit: deadfish's niche is basically to be as useless as you can get while still being fun to implement 23:04:39 ais523: though it's not the only such language, e.g. thue 23:04:49 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:05:01 oerjan: yeah 23:05:24 although in the case of radixal is more "intentional" 23:05:25 in Radixal!!!!'s case, though, it's purely due to being perverse for no good reason 23:05:26 *it's 23:06:22 kangxi radical fight 23:07:13 `unicode KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT 23:07:13 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:07:15 ​⾾ 23:07:17 holy christ did i fuck up this circuit 23:07:33 for half a second putty showed that as s) 23:07:52 ^ord ​⾾ 23:07:52 226 128 139 226 190 190 23:08:05 is haskell part of the dream of the 90s? 23:08:08 `ord ​⾾ 23:08:10 8203 12222 23:08:14 (re: galois) 23:08:16 is haskell alive in portland 23:08:32 Bike: no it's sleepless in seattle 23:11:30 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:12:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:13:25 2**x for x > 32 is always bigger than 32 <-- 2**x > x, see: cantor 23:14:34 hm it's true if you replace 2 by any number > 1, isn't it 23:15:58 @check x>1 ==> x**y > (y::Double) 23:15:58 Plugin `check' failed with: Ambiguous infix expression 23:16:16 oerjan: 1.1 ** 2 = 1.21 < 2 23:16:17 @check \x y -> x>1 ==> x**y > (y::Double) 23:16:17 Plugin `check' failed with: Ambiguous infix expression 23:16:34 cool 23:16:39 ais523: oops 23:16:45 > 1.1 ** 2 23:16:46 1.2100000000000002 23:16:59 my value for 1.1 ** 2 is more accurate 23:17:04 i thought you were talking about 2 ** x 23:17:23 lambdabot's looks more accurate, though, because of all the zeros 23:17:35 @check \x y -> (x>1) ==> (x**y > (y::Double)) 23:17:36 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 23:17:37 > 1.1 ** 2 :: CReal 23:17:38 1.21 23:18:02 @check \x y -> (x>1) ==> (x**y > (y::Double)) 23:18:03 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test and 1 shrink): 23:18:03 1.1593171888308589 23:18:03 ... 23:18:29 int-e: very useful output format, that 23:18:53 oerjan: it took more than 100 tries to falsify that? is it just trying numbers at random? 23:19:05 ais523: well yes 23:19:09 -!- realzies has joined. 23:19:14 @help check 23:19:14 check 23:19:14 You have QuickCheck and 3 seconds. Prove something. 23:19:29 * ais523 objects to the use of the word "prove" 23:19:31 although, hmm 23:19:42 the program you use to run Perl testsuites is called prove(1) 23:19:46 @check \y -> (2**y > (y::Double)) 23:19:47 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 23:19:49 @check \y -> (2**y > (y::Double)) 23:19:50 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 23:19:51 my brain mentally objects to the name every time I run it 23:20:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:20:25 hm.. 23:20:35 > iterate (1.1**) 0 23:20:37 [0.0,1.0,1.1,1.1105342410545758,1.1116498000257782,1.1117680015030489,1.111... 23:20:48 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:21:02 that explains why my argument failed, i didn't consider that could converge 23:21:05 the limit exists for less than 1/e or something, iirc 23:21:17 Bike: yeah, I guessed it would be something like that 23:21:36 was trying to work out how to find the break point 23:21:37 Bike: well 1.1 is > 1/e 23:21:44 but it almost certainly involves e somethow 23:21:45 well you suck!! 23:21:50 here i'll look it up 23:22:26 oh it's e ^ (1/e). 23:22:28 what a great number 23:22:42 let's see… we want (x**y)/y to be < 1; that means y*log x - log y is negative 23:22:56 also this was shown by euler because of course it fucking was. 23:23:17 so to find the largest possible x that works, we need to find the y that maximizes log y / y 23:23:33 and yeah, I think that's 1/e from memory 23:24:07 err, that's e 23:24:25 log e / e = 1/e, so the value of x we need is e^(1/e) 23:24:43 > exp 1 23:24:44 2.718281828459045 23:24:54 > (exp 1) ** (1 / exp 1) 23:24:55 1.444667861009766 23:25:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Leonhard_Euler 23:25:13 > exp (1/exp 1) -- *cough* 23:25:14 1.444667861009766 23:25:28 oerjan: I wasn't trying to golf :-( 23:25:43 > (exp (1 / exp 1)) ** (exp 1) 23:25:44 2.7182818284590446 23:25:59 well, theoretically that should be equal to e 23:26:01 > exp.exp$ -1 23:26:01 and it looks pretty close 23:26:02 1.444667861009766 23:26:14 > exp (exp (1 / exp 1)) 23:26:15 4.240443492279831 23:26:22 err, right 23:27:06 exp is e^x, not x^e 23:27:33 although, e^x is always >= x^e, and e is the only number for which that's true (for positive x) 23:27:56 > iterate (exp(exp(-1))**) 0 23:27:57 [0.0,1.0,1.444667861009766,1.7014206956610736,1.8699612238030825,1.98957349... 23:28:36 > exp (exp (-1)) 23:28:37 1.444667861009766 23:28:39 that is a fun number 23:29:05 now find the lower limit! 23:31:03 ais523: hm it's obvious that e is the only one if it's true :) 23:31:11 oerjan: yeah, it's obvious that there's only one 23:31:15 as soon as I realised that I set out to find it 23:32:12 it's one of those things that calculus is really good at 23:32:49 > iterate (0.9**) 0 23:32:50 [0.0,1.0,0.9,0.9095325760829622,0.9086195391380412,0.9087069507641854,0.908... 23:33:43 ok there might actually be a lower limit of sorts? 23:33:55 > iterate (0.1**) 0 23:33:57 [0.0,1.0,0.1,0.7943282347242815,0.16057272043212115,0.6909192287599791,0.20... 23:34:10 > drop 100 $ iterate (0.1**) 0 23:34:11 [0.3989449593934298,0.3990754762592498,0.3989555616466416,0.399065733912108... 23:34:25 hm that doesn't look very non-converging 23:35:10 i'm going to guess it converges for every 0 hm obviously for 1 as well 23:35:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:35:47 so 0 > drop 100 $ iterate (0.01**) 0 23:36:15 [1.3092520507995337e-2,0.9414883685756696,1.3092520507995337e-2,0.941488368... 23:36:43 hm that's not very quickly converging 23:36:43 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.1**) 0 23:36:44 [0.39901297826025206,0.3990129782602521,0.39901297826025206,0.3990129782602... 23:37:16 seems to be alternating at that point, presumably due to floating point inaccuracies 23:37:20 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.01**) 0 23:37:21 [1.3092520507995337e-2,0.9414883685756696,1.3092520507995337e-2,0.941488368... 23:37:32 oh that doesn't look like it converges 23:37:49 except to alternate 23:38:06 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.01**) 0.01 23:38:07 [1.3092520507995337e-2,0.9414883685756696,1.3092520507995337e-2,0.941488368... 23:38:13 oops 23:38:20 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.1**) 0.1 23:38:21 [0.39901297826025206,0.3990129782602521,0.39901297826025206,0.3990129782602... 23:39:05 > 1/exp(exp 1) 23:39:06 6.598803584531254e-2 23:39:31 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.07**) 0 23:39:32 [0.3719261662560938,0.37193045518462764,0.37192621320203767,0.3719304087522... 23:39:38 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.06**) 0 23:39:39 [0.2168980649057752,0.5432295305057313,0.2168980649057752,0.543229530505731... 23:40:00 hah i think i may have guessed right that it changes at 1/e^e 23:40:28 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.065**) 0 23:40:29 [0.3030082866002573,0.43682039793123895,0.3030095664824946,0.43681886976616... 23:40:33 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.066**) 0 23:40:34 [0.3404782877557717,0.3963513487529059,0.3405059041591694,0.396321598088106... 23:40:50 > drop 1000 $ iterate (0.067**) 0 23:40:51 [0.3648850253415895,0.3729514282282367,0.3649076104537553,0.372928660621407... 23:41:49 > drop 10000 $ iterate (0.067**) 0 23:41:50 [0.368912903977469,0.3689129039775534,0.3689129039774693,0.3689129039775531... 23:42:05 > drop 10000 $ iterate (0.065**) 0 23:42:06 [0.3031239805467282,0.43668228225140027,0.3031239805467282,0.43668228225140... 23:42:12 > drop 10000 $ iterate (0.066**) 0 23:42:13 [0.36037642863910974,0.37548402040723905,0.360377452553513,0.37548297539825... 23:42:39 -!- L8D has joined. 23:42:55 > drop 100000 $ iterate (0.066**) 0 23:42:56 [0.36762949368556197,0.3681540095360947,0.3676295111928457,0.36815399201691... 23:43:45 it think it converges for x > 1/e^e, although pretty slowly when it's close 23:43:55 and alternates for x < 1/e^e 23:47:11 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:48:45 hm well there's still that small alternation that might be just floating point error for larger 23:50:27 > iterate (0.1**) (0.39901297826025206 :: CReal) 23:50:31 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:50:43 > drop 5 . take 10 $ iterate (0.1**) (0.39901297826025206 :: CReal) 23:50:44 [0.3990129782602520791881769909114066462547,0.39901297826025206462150470053... 23:51:18 > drop 5 . take 20 $ iterate (0.1**) (0.39901297826025206 :: CReal) 23:51:21 [0.3990129782602520791881769909114066462547,0.39901297826025206462150470053... 23:51:45 oops 23:51:51 > drop 15 . take 20 $ iterate (0.1**) (0.39901297826025206 :: CReal) 23:51:53 [0.3990129782602520748500883139609762878626,0.39901297826025206860717284755... 23:52:20 well it seems to be converging further 23:53:10 > drop 100 . take 2 $ iterate (0..1**) (0 :: CReal) 23:53:11 :1:31: parse error on input `..' 23:53:14 > drop 100 . take 2 $ iterate (0.1**) (0 :: CReal) 23:53:15 [] 23:53:23 ? 23:53:38 you're dropping 100 elements from a size 2 list 23:53:50 ah right 23:53:53 > drop 100 . take 102 $ iterate (0.1**) (0 :: CReal) 23:53:57 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:54:03 was afraid of that 23:54:22 so was I, thought it was worth a try anyway 23:57:08 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:58:16 -!- conehead has joined. 2013-12-06: 00:00:27 @let src0 f (a,b) | x == a = a | x == b = b | otherwise = (case (signum (f a), signum (f x), signum (f b)) of (_, 0, _) -> x; (-1, -1, 1) -> src0 f (x,b); (-1, 1, 1) -> src0 f (a,x); (1, 1, -1) -> src0 f (x,b); (1, -1, -1) -> src0 f (a,x); _ -> error "Bounds don't have opposite signs") where x = (a+b)/2 00:00:28 Defined. 00:02:07 > src0 (\x -> log x/x - log 0.1) (0.3,0.4) 00:02:08 0.39901297826025206 00:02:17 > src0 (\x -> log x/x - log 0.1) (0.3,0.4 :: CReal) 00:02:21 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:02:23 darn 00:03:09 > src0 (\x -> log x/x - log 0.01) (0.3,0.4) 00:03:10 *Exception: Bounds don't have opposite signs 00:03:23 > src0 (\x -> log x/x - log 0.66) (0.3,0.4) 00:03:25 *Exception: Bounds don't have opposite signs 00:03:53 > src0 (\x -> log x/x - log 0.66) (0.01,1) 00:03:54 0.7363978892794596 00:04:06 > src0 (\x -> log x/x - log 0.066) (0.01,1) 00:04:07 0.36789170925129544 00:04:26 > src0 (\x -> log x/x - log 0.065) (0.01,1) 00:04:27 0.3668621225256108 00:04:33 oh hm 00:04:43 .... people are being taught never to use GET because it's insecure? 00:05:30 maybe it's a fixpoint but not an attractor 00:05:55 Sgeo: this is HTTP GET, right? 00:05:59 Yes 00:06:05 But in the context of forms 00:06:09 I can sort-of see how the message could get that distorted 00:06:28 the correct rule, btw, is to never use GET for anything non-idempotent or that has side effects, otherwise always use it 00:06:49 ais523: password that leads to a static site 00:07:03 Sgeo: you know about how PHP used to only have register_globals for post i hope 00:07:06 Don't want that password in history 00:07:16 Sgeo: yeah, you should use POST for that 00:07:33 it's not exactly a side effect, but it behaves a lot like one 00:07:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:08:01 Bike: o.O 00:08:10 Sgeo: get is insecure, man!! 00:08:19 So... POST used to be horribly insecure in PHP? 00:08:28 erm, wait, anyone could POST maliciously anyway 00:08:32 Sgeo: actually, everything used to be horribly insecure in PHP 00:09:15 "used to be" 00:09:53 also sending confidential information in GET requests is sketchy because more things will log URLs than will log POST bodies 00:11:01 allowing information to escape into the wild is a side effect 00:12:17 InfixE (Just (LitE (IntegerL 1))) (VarE GHC.Num.+) (Just (LitE (IntegerL 1))) 00:12:38 <_46bit> kmc, Bike: Taneb's talk is now up :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FGKQu70TU 00:12:46 So, no AppE in that function application 00:13:32 "Template Haskell brackets cannot be nested (without intervening splices)" 00:13:34 Screw that 00:14:05 _46bit: cool 00:26:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:29:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:31:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:40:41 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:42:52 Sgeo: i see you're at the "soon to leave in disgust for the next language" stage with haskell :P 00:46:48 I want to write code like this, but the sublanguage that would be defined would.. interact weirdly with laziness. And value is not first-class 00:47:11 [impure| value [1, 2, 3] + value [4, 5, 6] |] 00:48:04 The inner language would be Haskell-like, where value in a function application position rewrites the expression with bind and the remainder of the continuation 00:48:19 -!- Bike has joined. 00:49:36 [impure| \x -> value x |] results in some error. If I don't bother with error checking in impure, the compiler may complain about undefined x... I hope 00:49:36 are you reinventing idiom brackets 00:49:39 (+) <$> [1,2,3] <*> [4,5,6] 00:49:45 (| [1, 2, 3] + [4, 5, 6] |) 00:49:51 oerjan: reverse idiom brackets, where the impure values are marked 00:50:10 Seriously, marking the pure ones is silly for monads 00:50:21 You lose join 00:50:33 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:50:40 sigh 00:50:57 more like loin, or something, 00:54:03 Also let could be abused to imply sequencing 00:56:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:12:43 @tell ais523 "prove, v. II. To make trial of; to try, test. 6. a. /trans/. To put (a person or thing) to the test; to test the genuineness or qualities of; (/Sc/.) to test by tasting, to sample. Now /rare/ in general use (but cf. technical uses at senses 6b, 6f, etc.). b. /trans/. To subject (any natural, prepared, or manufactured substance or object, now esp. a firearm) to a testing process." (OED) 01:12:44 Consider it noted. 01:13:18 fizzie: huh, interesting 01:13:22 @messages 01:14:00 (Not that I claim that's the sense of "prove" they were thinking of when writing that message.) 01:14:48 like 'proving grounds' i guess 01:17:53 -!- muskrat has joined. 01:24:30 @ask olsner http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/aliens-on-the-loose-in-cardiff-8544532.html <-- does this mean you _cannot_ kill it with fire? 01:24:30 Consider it noted. 01:25:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:26:15 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:33:01 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:41:22 -!- augur has joined. 02:00:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:05:08 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 02:05:20 -!- muskrat has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:05:24 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 02:07:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:07:49 -!- muskrat has quit (Client Quit). 02:09:36 @ask Taneb WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TOO MUCH TIME ON MY HANDS 02:09:37 Consider it noted. 02:14:49 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:20:48 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:27:52 The fun part is that in Scala and Scheme, value could certainly be first-class 02:27:55 But not Haskell 02:39:55 ....is it possible to have class declarations inside let? 02:40:04 no 02:40:07 The types involved in TH don't forbid it 02:40:27 you can have fixity declarations inside let/where 02:40:29 by accident? 02:40:43 I guess there is a lot of illegal syntax constructible in TH 02:44:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:53:24 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 02:54:50 -!- Sellyme has joined. 03:06:32 -!- Bike has joined. 03:28:28 nasa-revealed.com 03:28:48 "SORRY!!! TO learn about the origins of the NASA CONSPIRACY you must have a newer browser. Please try upgrading to the AWESOME Internet Explorer TWO POINT OH. Thankx!!" 03:28:58 your mother 03:30:45

03:34:27 For a second i thought The Onion really made an effort for http://www.theonion.com/articles/slowwitted-conspiracy-theorist-convinced-governmen,34749/ but that seems to be a fan creation instead. 03:41:59 ruddy: yo dawg 03:42:00 ​yo yo 03:44:36 * Sgeo reads about MFlow 03:45:06 Continuation-based web framework without the ugly URLs and need to store hard-to-serialize continuations? 03:45:39 "NOTE2: Since the SOH uses HTTPS, the browser reject the load of third party scripts, such is JQuery, so look at the notes of each example." 03:45:43 The ... fudge? 03:46:04 Suddenly I'm not sure this person is competent to write a web framework tutorial 03:48:34 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5269634/address-width-from-ram-depth fuck the world 03:49:53 ....that person is the creator of the web framework in question 03:49:59 I'm going to go sit down and cry somewhere. 03:50:55 isn't "stateful, RESTful web framework" kind of an oxymmoron 03:51:30 It puts state in its URIs fairly directly. 03:51:38 http://mflowdemo.herokuapp.com/ 03:51:51 Click Database examples. Then click Database examples again. Then click Database examples again. 03:53:29 @tell Taneb also some parts of that could have needed subtitles hth 03:53:29 Consider it noted. 03:57:28 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:10:47 i'm growing more and more convinced that nobody actually uses verilog. there's no other explanation 04:14:02 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:15:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:17:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:18:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:31:43 -!- douglass_ has joined. 05:11:11 @messages-nomad 05:11:12 Unknown command, try @list 05:11:25 @messages-loam 05:11:25 oerjan asked 3h 1m 48s ago: WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TOO MUCH TIME ON MY HANDS 05:11:25 oerjan said 1h 17m 56s ago: also some parts of that could have needed subtitles hth 05:11:48 @tell oerjan all esolangers have too much time. It's an art, you need too much time. 05:11:48 Consider it noted. 05:12:08 @tell oerjan I think I have precisely the wrong accent for transcribed captions or sanity 05:12:08 Consider it noted. 05:12:51 @messages-lost 05:12:51 Taneb said 1m 2s ago: all esolangers have too much time. It's an art, you need too much time. 05:12:51 Taneb said 42s ago: I think I have precisely the wrong accent for transcribed captions or sanity 05:14:34 sanity is not necessary, just diction. 05:14:48 also INTERCAL does too have arrays hth 05:22:26 I knew I was going to make mistakes about INTERCAL 05:22:58 Also I've been messing with Python again (help) 05:23:08 sorry you're doomed 05:23:12 Taneb: what do you need help with 05:23:27 quintopia, my program has behaviour that I do not know the cause of 05:23:38 Possibly because my program is stupid and weird 05:23:58 Taneb: i was going to suggest that maybe it is the program author that is stupid and weird hth 05:24:17 quintopia, the program author is definitely acting stupid and weird 05:24:30 Whether he is actually stupid or weird, nobody knows 05:24:33 and having unexpected behavior? 05:24:42 Also, I had just missed a break statement 05:24:52 oh 05:24:53 okay 05:24:58 that's not so stupid and weird 05:25:03 @messages 05:25:03 You don't have any messages 05:25:03 i'll give you a break (this time) 05:31:56 -!- L8D has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:34:42 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czjaNCR0SBA 05:34:46 MegaZeux 05:34:53 No idea what that video si about 05:37:34 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:06:14 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:10:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:22:05 -!- realzies has joined. 06:27:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:48:01 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:54:39 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:07:43 why the hell is there such a thing as a lut1 and why are they in this schematic 07:10:04 i guess it's for routing. wack, man. 07:10:36 it's kind of weird how there's like a billion levels of abstraction and things that don't exist in something that's nominally 'close to metal'. 07:19:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:27:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:29:36 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Bye). 07:33:49 you think that's air you're breathing now? 07:34:16 i like air 07:34:28 because it's so easy? 07:35:08 no because breathing it is fun + healthy 07:35:21 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 07:35:28 health tips from shachaf 07:36:12 what was that story (heinlein?) where the person was complaining about air not being free 07:36:26 apparently it was in The Cat Who Walks Through Walls 07:36:40 says http://bastiatscorner.blogspot.com/p/heinlein-quotes.html 07:39:28 kmc: what else is fun + healthy to breathe though 07:39:38 drugz hour with kmc 07:41:07 isn't it weird how when you're writing prose, the first 20 words take as long as the next 1,000 07:41:10 that's how it is for me anyway 07:41:44 also it's hard to write anything without becoming demoralized by how terrible it is 07:42:01 yes :'( 07:43:33 write drunk, edit sober 07:43:56 though actually I find that staying up for 26-30 hours is best for the writing of prose 07:44:21 what are you writing 07:44:52 technical blog post 07:45:03 so drunkenness may be unhelpful 07:45:18 yeah, my advice is for humanities papers, not things that have to make sense 07:45:28 your standards for the humanities are low 07:45:37 because you went to a tech school 07:45:48 Today in bad Hackage libraries, meet wai-middleware-headers 07:45:49 "Adds cors support to WAI" = Just shove Allow-Access-Control-Origin: * in front of each response 07:45:50 my high school had decent standards 07:45:55 much higher than tech 07:46:01 https://github.com/seanhess/wai-middleware-headers/blob/master/Network/Wai/Middleware/Headers.hs 07:46:03 i read that as "wet-middleware-headers" 07:46:22 are tech schools good should i go to one 07:46:32 and i wrote the hs papers on sleep dep too 07:46:36 is there a comprehensive list of HTTP headers, and which ones would be good names for bands 07:46:50 kmc: is there anything which would not be a good name for a band 07:47:17 at last year's MIT Mystery Hunt there was a team whose name was the complete text of _Atlas Shrugged_ 07:47:55 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:47:55 ask your doctor if tech schools(TM) are right for you 07:48:15 (it turns out that Google Docs does not have a size limit on the text in a cell) 07:48:37 ™ 07:48:57 kmc: as my attorney what do you advise 07:49:05 meh 07:49:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:49:12 wb pikhq 07:50:23 mehcallister 07:52:09 http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Z111.jpg 07:52:42 apathy is good but what should i care about 07:52:52 instead of not caring 07:55:18 -!- kmc has set topic: NOTHING IS BEYOND OUR REACH | Although maybe if something else strange is done, it might not? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 08:03:30 `run unicode 'OCTOPUS' 'EARTH GLOBE AMERICAS' 08:03:35 Unknown character. 08:04:03 combining octopus above 08:04:08 `quote OCTOPUS 08:04:10 185) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 214) ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could m 08:06:29 Miracle Techno from Planet X 08:06:33 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:09:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:10:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:15:58 * FireFly eyes kmc 08:16:04 reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6a4EFa7wK8 08:18:32 -!- realzies has joined. 08:23:02 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:27:01 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 08:27:43 shachaf: do you like an octopus 08:30:12 "He knew how to outmaneuver them, to outflank them, and to outthink them. He knew full well, many years ago, what today's octopus wrestlers are just beginning to learn—that it is impossible for a man with two arms to apply a full nelson on an octopus; he knew full well the futility of trying for a crotch hold on an opponent with eight crotches." 08:30:40 those are all good things to know 08:30:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:34:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:34:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:34:58 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:37:24 -!- elliott_ has joined. 08:45:06 "To skip these instructions, press 4. To hear the list of questions, press 1. Press 7 to press 3. To press 1, press 8. To press 6, press 2. Press 5 to press 7. To hear the answers, press 6. Press 0 to press [star]. To hear the instructions backwards, press 9. Press [star] to press 0. Press 3 if you really want to." 08:46:31 shachaf: is it transitive? 08:46:48 i.e. if i press 0, will it cause an endless loop? 08:47:04 I don't remember. 08:50:20 I guess raising an issue on the project "This entire concept is idiotic and bad" would be a bit rude 08:53:48 submit a pull request which removes all every file 08:57:33 -!- carado has joined. 08:57:45 I might submit a pull request adding stuff to the README 08:58:08 I can see a use-case, I think it would be useful for dropbox (they're doing equivalent I believe) 08:58:25 But "adds cors support"... doesn't cut it 08:58:29 I was going to write a compliant Underload interpreter, wasn't I? 09:21:45 hm so are computers / languages with limited memory typically equivalent to a finite state machine or to a linear bounded automaton? 09:22:25 wikipedia says the latter but I think a LBA has a bound which grows with the length of the input string 09:22:54 I think if the program is inputted on a tape maybe they are linear bounded? 09:23:08 But if the program is internally stored then finite state 09:23:24 ah 09:23:54 I don't know why you are trusting me on this, though 09:25:33 trust no one 09:26:02 the truth is out there 09:26:08 i want to believe 09:26:18 i want a hug 09:26:22 * kmc hugs shachaf 09:26:55 Did you two see my esolangs talk? 09:27:04 not yet but i will watch it 09:27:14 I didn't know esolangs could talk at all. 09:27:16 (it's not that great) 09:27:28 shachaf, here's a video of them in the act! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FGKQu70TU 09:27:56 i heard that the video is not that great 09:28:13 also my internet connection is bad 09:28:13 No, it was recorded on one of my friend's laptop 09:28:27 Also I was kind of nervous 09:28:41 i have the feeling my pronunciation of "esoteric" is nonstandard 09:28:46 but i like it too much to check 09:29:01 shachaf, it's more likely mine is, I pronounce a fair few words incorrectly 09:29:30 oh, audience participation 09:29:37 hmm i don't know what a programming language is 09:30:11 Yeah, my pronunciation was wrong throughout 09:30:35 ok i can't watch this, everything is too slow 09:30:50 imo come to california and talk about esolangs here 09:30:54 would attent 09:30:55 d 09:31:33 I would if you played for the flight and the hotel 09:31:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:31:53 what do i have to play 09:32:08 The... most dangerous game 09:32:20 http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=1488 09:33:06 Good talk, but it didn't mention Feather 09:33:10 deal 09:37:05 -!- augur has joined. 09:46:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:51:07 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:51:18 -!- heroux has joined. 09:52:10 * kmc concludes his writing for the evening by inserting "FIXME: this is bullshit" 09:53:27 TODO: hugz 09:58:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:59:40 -!- augur has joined. 10:06:16 -!- Bike has joined. 10:14:39 shachaf: file that in the hug tracker 10:15:20 the nsa is tracking our hugs 10:15:41 imo it's time for untrackable, anonymous hugs 10:16:22 do you know any good zero-knowledge hugs 10:16:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:17:33 RSA blind hugs 10:17:36 shamir hug sharing 10:21:00 kmc gives good hugz 10:21:09 thanks 10:21:20 there's some sort of established social norm for how long a hug should be that i wasn't really aware of 10:21:51 i think there are many such norms and it's complicated 10:21:52 but kmc goes a little longer than that. it's like a different level of hug 10:21:59 aww 10:22:01 hug++ 10:22:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:22:29 it's like that diner we went to that advertises that you always get a little extra milk shake in the can 10:22:31 -!- Bike has joined. 10:22:34 remember that place 10:22:48 yes 10:22:52 that is a common property of diners 10:22:58 but i don't think they make a big deal about it usually 10:23:13 ok kmc is like a diner that doesn't make a big deal about it 10:23:18 i'm not a diner expert 10:23:34 dexpert 10:24:08 anyway perhaps it's only that i'm bad at telling which of the many complicated social norms apply 10:24:15 could be 10:24:22 or that i'm bad at following the prevailing norms 10:24:24 i just like hugs 10:24:34 -!- augur has joined. 10:24:59 they are so easy 10:25:03 and also good 10:25:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:25:16 yep 10:25:18 did you know that "macaron" and "macaroon" refer to two completely different cookie-type things 10:25:26 i think i knew but forgot 10:25:38 yeah 10:25:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 10:25:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:25:48 Not to be confused with Macaroon, Macron, McCarron, or Macaroni. 10:28:03 i had some today and they were good 10:28:07 but too sweet 10:28:15 but maybe not too sweet it's hard to say 10:28:22 which one 10:28:28 hugs? 10:28:36 imo how can hugs be too sweet 10:28:42 but i meant macarons 10:30:02 i am v. tired 10:33:12 also it's independence day 10:33:21 whose 10:33:21 @time ion 10:33:21 Local time for ion is Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:33:21 +0200 10:33:29 .fi 10:33:33 cool 10:33:38 happy finland to us all 10:33:59 independence from... sweden? no, russia 10:34:37 russia started having a revolution and a civil war and finland was like "see ya" 10:34:56 * kmc visits google.fi 10:38:35 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:42:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:44:57 @check \(x, y) -> (x>1) ==> (x**y > (y::Double)) 10:44:58 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 10:45:04 @check \(x, y) -> (x>1) ==> (x**y > (y::Double)) 10:45:05 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 10:45:38 @check \(x, y) -> (x>1) ==> (x**y > (y::Double)) 10:45:39 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 4 tests and 1 shrink): 10:45:39 (1.1686502123077922... 10:46:14 Hmm[3~h 10:46:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:53:38 shachaf: do you have a link to a copy of "Liking What You See" 10:54:20 http://www.ibooksonline.com/88/Text/liking.html i guess but it's poorly formatted 10:54:29 i think maybe technically it isn't supposed to be online so sometimes copies disappear 10:54:41 there's -- yes, that one, but the formatting is bad 10:54:51 and also it pops up a "like us on facebook" popup after a few seconds 10:55:17 i do have a pdf of the whole book 10:59:45 -!- jconn has joined. 11:13:02 It's like past 1pm and I just woke up. 11:13:03 `thanks independence day 11:13:05 Thanks, independence day. Thindependence day. 11:14:00 fizzie, did you see my esotalk? 11:14:05 how does one traditionally celebrate finnish independence day 11:14:54 Taneb: I did not see it. 11:15:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FGKQu70TU 11:15:40 kmc: sleeping until like past 1pm 11:15:50 which i guess is finnish for 13 11:16:01 kmc: My wife's family has a tradition of baking christmas gingerbread cookies, but I don't think that's standard. 11:16:23 (Canceled this year due to a cold.) 11:17:14 Also we're going to have that Pallini event I was talking about but that's not standard either. 11:17:33 any kind of food / booze / explosions 11:17:54 i ate gingerbread macarons 11:18:17 I think the thing most people do is to watch the Official Party (where all the Important People are invited) on TV. 11:18:30 uh 11:18:40 not all the important people 11:18:44 p. sure i wasn't invited 11:19:17 I was invited but couldn't make it due to presenting an esotalk 11:19:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_(Finland)#State_festivities 11:19:34 kmc: is that the trifecta 11:19:44 is "beer, burritos, bong hits" another instance of it 11:20:01 Oh, right, also Tuntematon sotilas. 11:20:29 liberté = explosions, égalité = food, fraternité = booze? 11:21:30 i guess liberté has to be bong hits as well then unless we're willing for things to get confusing 11:22:25 I think we only have the booze component here, but we do that for every possible excuse. 11:22:52 Where "we" refers to Finland in general, this time. 11:23:08 if i lived in finland would i booze 11:26:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:26:40 It's not required, it's only strongly encouraged. 11:26:50 * kmc -> sleep 11:26:58 & dreams of finnish vodka 11:28:52 imo move your independence day to july, then you can do grilling / swimming / drinking of beers in the outdoors / etc 11:29:00 `pbflist 11:29:01 pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion 11:29:05 wise move by the signers of the Declaration of Independence 11:29:32 Phantom_Hoover: already pbflisted 11:29:43 maybe you should be on the list 11:30:10 why would i want to be on the list 11:30:31 if you're not on the list why are you hilighting us 11:32:20 Should pbflist *do* something? 11:36:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:39:03 kmc: they have a midsummer holiday 11:39:15 wikipedia says "Rituals include bonfires, cookouts, a sauna and spending time together. Heavy drinking is also associated with the Finnish midsummer." 11:39:23 so basically it sounds like they've got that covered 11:39:58 (also since when does US independence day involve swimming?) 11:41:27 Taneb: Has anyone followed your #esoteric whiteboardlink? 11:47:45 http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/heman.jpg 11:48:35 fizzie, of the six people in the audience, a couple have already been to #esoteric and I don't think any of the others are here now 11:53:05 fizzie, what did you think of the talk? 11:53:36 ion, doesn't everybody look like that 12:07:53 -!- efgdgre has joined. 12:14:45 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:15:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:16:11 -!- efgdgre has left. 12:33:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:34:31 Nowadays if you write #esoteric some people probably will go on twitter . 12:34:49 mroman_, I did write #esoteric@irc.freenode.net 12:35:06 All the people there in person were familiar with IRC 12:36:26 Taneb: What was the audience btw? 12:37:36 And you sound british 12:37:40 Is that correct? 12:37:44 I am british, yes 12:38:01 It was some people from my uni's computer enthusiasts' society 12:39:11 Taneb did a talk? 12:42:34 :D 12:42:43 I like your pronunciation of Urban Mueler 12:43:02 Urban Mauler. 12:43:29 urban muueueeuler 12:44:37 Taneb: So far I've only watched the first ten minutes, but, well, actually, I don't really have any comments. Except that you looked kind of more normal than I was expecting from my conception of the Abstract Taneb, but that's not really a comment about the talk itself. 12:45:39 mroman_, how horrendous was it? 12:45:46 Nice choice of related videosin the sidebar, though. ("Brother Panic: Programming Chakras in The Dream World", "PHP Programming Language For Newbies - 11 - PHP Functions", ...) 12:45:59 Phantom_Hoover, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FGKQu70TU 12:46:08 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:46:36 I wonder if the surname Miller comes fro Mueller... 12:46:48 FireFly: It does 12:46:50 Taneb, good job on pronouncing esoteric the right way 12:47:15 It's the kind of profession that has something todo with windmills and corn stuff 12:47:24 oh 12:47:26 Phantom_Hoover, I can't actually tell if that was sarcastic or sincere 12:47:30 That makes sense 12:47:48 Miller = Mueller, Smith = Schmied and so on 12:47:57 Taneb, elliott_ insists the right way to say it is with a short 'eh' at the start, i think this is stupid & wrong 12:48:25 Taneb: If I wouldn't have already known the name I would have misunderstood it 12:48:43 Phantom_Hoover, Wiktionary says short e, as does my knowledge of ancient greek 12:48:53 However I must agree that short 'eh' sounds stupid 12:49:18 Although with my pronunciation of finite that may make me somewhat hypocritical 12:49:25 Taneb: but that's ok. Pronouncing foreign names is hard 12:49:29 ("Mylläri" in Finnish.) 12:49:48 fizzie, that looks worryingly Indo-European 12:49:51 (Though not a common surname here, I think.) 12:50:07 same way you talk about ksylophones, then? 12:50:45 :P 12:51:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:51:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:52:19 Phantom_Hoover, at least xylophone is consistent with most of the other words beginning with hang on I'm complaining about English being inconsistent I'll stop 12:52:46 Taneb: Probably Sweden's fault again; it usually is. (It's "mjölnare" there, I believe.) 12:52:54 that's exactly my point, we pronounce initial x as z, in greek it was just ks 12:53:23 Phantom_Hoover, I was going into a rant about how the common pronunciation of finite is awful 12:54:09 Taneb: pronunciation of finite/infinite in English is crazy 12:54:53 Actually how did I pronounce Mueller 12:55:21 sign/signal, finite/infinite, cycle/bicycle, number/{all adjectives starting wtih nume} 12:55:22 (Also "xylophone" is spelled "ksylofoni" in Finnish.) 12:55:52 singer/singe 12:56:01 /finger 12:59:54 numerous, numeric, numerical, numeral, numeracy, numerator, numerology, numerate, Numenor, 13:00:02 there's so many words starting with nume- 13:02:37 That's Númenor, it starts with núme-. 13:03:26 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:32 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:05:26 Taneb: Like mule with an r at the end :) 13:05:33 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 13:05:34 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:05:39 and Urban like the english word urban 13:05:52 mroman_, I was going by the yoghurt company 13:06:03 And misremembering that anyway 13:09:45 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:11:51 -!- boily has joined. 13:11:53 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:15:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:17:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:19:00 good what-the-fungot-is-eisc morning! 13:19:01 boily: i'd rather have a fold up keyboard." says the official documentation 13:19:28 :D 13:19:46 Curious thing to put in the official documentation. 13:20:05 good morning morning ruddy 13:20:06 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 13:27:13 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:37:33 http://heh.fi/tmp/dream.png 13:38:24 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:38:59 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 13:38:59 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:44:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:44:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:47:16 https://github.com/landondyer/kasm/blob/master/LICENSE 13:54:16 -!- yorick has joined. 14:04:35 ion, brilliant 14:04:57 boily: Are you referring to the esowiki article "EISC"? 14:05:11 (i thought it was merely 'funny' before i realised the picture was of mandela) 14:05:25 -!- L8D has joined. 14:05:44 mroman_: I am. 14:06:28 I uploaded it to imgur. http://imgur.com/gallery/Zp71DUL 14:06:32 nortti: as a professional working in the IT field, I agree. 14:08:27 Taneb: i'm watching 14:09:37 while we're complaining about Taneb's pronunciation of things istr quine is pronounced queen? but maybe i'm wrong 14:10:19 ah. i am 14:10:41 (where the heck did i pick that up) 14:11:12 Show must go on 14:13:54 boily: It's an Esoteric Instruction Set Computer 14:13:57 Like CISC, RISC 14:14:04 it's only logical that there has to be an EISC. 14:17:54 Someone clearly hates RMS 14:21:12 I'd want a license that when used commercially requires you to donate 1% of earnings with said product to some non-profit organisation not related to the own company 14:22:30 -!- Bike has joined. 14:55:16 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 15:14:23 ~yi 15:14:23 Your divination: "Infiltrating" to "Limping" 15:14:42 hm. how can I apply that to ACL in CSV for an ERP? 15:14:56 erotic roleplay? 15:15:02 I wish. 15:15:45 stuck with undocumented permission lists for models in an Enterprise Resource Planning Platform (namely, OpenERP). 15:18:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:19:50 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:21:35 @tell oerjan why are you øing the entries? 15:21:35 Consider it noted. 15:22:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:26:25 -!- augur has joined. 15:31:28 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 15:31:33 {string(m)[]{"\"",",","\\","{string(m)[]{","};for(int(k):m[5])cout< do we have a geordi bot on this channel? 15:31:54 what's a geordi? 15:32:02 it's a bot that evaluates C++ 15:34:50 `run echo -e '#include \nusing namespace std;\nint main(void) {\ncout << "Hello, world!" << endl;\nreturn 0;\n}' >bin/a.cpp; g++ a.cpp -o bin/a; bin/a 15:34:55 g++: a.cpp: No such file or directory \ g++: no input files \ bash: bin/a: No such file or directory 15:34:59 `run echo -e '#include \nusing namespace std;\nint main(void) {\ncout << "Hello, world!" << endl;\nreturn 0;\n}' >bin/a.cpp; g++ bin/a.cpp -o bin/a; bin/a 15:35:09 Hello, world! 15:35:24 `run rm bin/a{,.cpp} 15:35:28 No output. 15:35:37 b_jonas: I think we do. 15:36:33 Have any of you seen the King James Programming tumblr/ 15:37:03 Taneb: I saw. 15:37:10 I know the guy who runs it 15:37:32 What did you think of it? 15:37:54 I lauged, I smiled, I need to spam my cow orkers with it :D 15:38:29 boily: nah, then I'd have to port this line to not use the geordi prelude and it would be too long 15:38:46 `run pwd 15:38:48 ​/hackenv 15:39:13 not only because of not using the geordi prelude, but because of all that echo '\n and gcc stuff I have to add 15:39:55 b_jonas: we could probably add a command to HackEgo to remove the need to call echo & g++ directly 15:42:52 `run echo -e '#!/bin/bash\ncat >/tmp/in.cpp <<<"$@"; g++ -o /tmp/a.out /tmp/in.cpp; /tmp/a.out' >bin/runcpp 15:42:55 No output. 15:42:59 something like that? 15:43:05 mrhmouse: or just ask Eelis or someone running a geordi to join it here 15:44:15 see http://eel.is/geordi/ 15:45:49 `runcpp #include \nusing namespace std;\nint main(void) { cout << "Hello, world!" << endl; return 0; } 15:45:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/runcpp: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/runcpp: cannot execute: Permission denied 15:46:00 `run chmod +x bin/runcpp 15:46:03 No output. 15:46:04 `runcpp #include \nusing namespace std;\nint main(void) { cout << "Hello, world!" << endl; return 0; } 15:46:08 ​/tmp/in.cpp:1:20: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.4.5/../../../../lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: ld returned 1 exit status \ /hackenv/bin/runcpp: line 2: /tmp/a.out: No such file or directory 15:46:30 FireFly: maybe it's not processing \n as a new line? 15:46:49 -e should process \n 15:46:56 echo -e I mean 15:47:11 Oh 15:47:14 You meant in the source code 15:47:19 Yeah :) The $@ bit 15:48:07 `run echo -e '#!/bin/bash\nsed 's/\\n/\n/g' >/tmp/in.cpp <<<"$@"; g++ -o /tmp/a.out /tmp/in.cpp; /tmp/a.out' >bin/runcpp && chmod a+x bin/runcpp 15:48:11 No output. 15:48:17 mrhmouse: try again 15:48:21 `runcpp #include \nusing namespace std;\nint main(void) { cout << "Hello, world!" << endl; return 0; } 15:48:24 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unterminated `s' command \ /hackenv/bin/runcpp: line 3: /n/g: No such file or directory \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.4.5/../../../../lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: ld returned 1 exit status \ /hackenv/bin/runcpp: line 3: /tmp/a.out: No such file or dire 15:48:30 baah. 15:48:56 Oh, bah 15:49:28 `run echo -e '#!/bin/bash\nsed s:\\\\n:\\n:g >/tmp/in.cpp <<<"$@"; g++ -o /tmp/a.out /tmp/in.cpp; /tmp/a.out' >bin/runcpp && chmod a+x bin/runcpp 15:49:32 No output. 15:49:35 Escaping is hard. 15:49:39 Yes, it is. 15:49:41 `runcpp #include \nusing namespace std;\nint main(void) { cout << "Hello, world!" << endl; return 0; } 15:49:45 ​/tmp/in.cpp:1:20: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive \ /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.4.5/../../../../lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': \ (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' \ collect2: ld returned 1 exit status \ /hackenv/bin/runcpp: line 2: /tmp/a.out: No such file or directory 15:49:49 I give up. 15:49:52 FireFly: heh 15:50:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:50:59 I'll give it a shot later I suppose 15:51:46 @messages-løud 15:51:46 boily said 30m 10s ago: why are you øing the entries? 15:51:59 boily: i have no idea what you are talking about? 15:52:18 mrhmouse: steal the geordi prelude too 15:52:44 b_jonas: what's it do? 15:53:15 mrhmouse: includes lots of headers by default, plus defines a few utility macros and stuff that come useful in an evalbot 15:53:25 https://github.com/Eelis/geordi/blob/master/prelude/prelude.hpp 15:54:01 oerjan: you are adding «ø» to entries. 15:54:03 http://eel.is/geordi/ does tell some things about it 15:54:35 but I think it would be easier to ask Eelis to join his bot here 15:56:34 Actually, I wonder if we can't just have HackEgo ask geordi 15:56:38 and echo its response 15:56:56 you want to chain multiple bots together? 15:56:58 Not that that's any easier. Just out of curiousity. 15:57:12 boily: i cannot on the spot see a single example on the HackEgo repository front page 15:57:45 oerjan: am I confusing you with someone else? 15:58:09 MEANWHILE IN... er, reddit: http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1s6wce/nelson_mandela_has_passed_away/cduxlj5 15:58:34 oerjan: oh, yes I am. my mind once again failed to distinguish you from olsner. 15:59:00 ic 15:59:17 Phantom_Hoover, well, at least the poster had the grace to stand corrected 15:59:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:59:58 `run /bin/ls wisdom | grep '[[:upper:]]' 16:00:00 EVERYONE \ Ø \ wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute." 16:00:10 `rm wisdom/EVERYONE 16:00:13 No output. 16:00:22 `cat wisdom/Ø 16:00:24 ​Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug 16:00:26 mrhmouse: I did that (chaining bots) once 16:00:33 i think the others are intentional. 16:01:11 specifically, at one point I hooked jevalbot so the J interpreter can call a foreign function that made my bot ask buubot in private message and return the result to the J script 16:01:40 it can no longer do that now 16:01:43 `run cat wisdom/wisis* 16:01:45 No output. 16:01:51 `ls wisdom 16:01:52 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead. 16:02:04 ah 16:02:08 boily: it's simple, olsner is swedish with a nick that looks danish, while i am norwegian with a nick that looks swedish hth 16:02:24 `run ls wisdom | tr a-z n-za-m 16:02:25 Af gur jvfqbz qverpgbel pbagnvaf znal svyrf anzrq nsgre avpxf, yvfgvat vg va choyvp naablf crbcyr. Tel uggcf://qy.qebcobkhfrepbagrag.pbz/h/2023808/jvfqbz.cqs vafgrnq. 16:02:35 * boily hides under his desk. «je suis sain d'esprit. je suis sain d'esprit. je suis sain d'esprit.» 16:02:44 `run echo wisdom/* | tr a-z n-za-m 16:02:46 jvfqbz/` jvfqbz/`? jvfqbz/ jvfqbz/_̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ jvfqbz/? jvfqbz/?? jvfqbz/@ jvfqbz/\ jvfqbz/☃ jvfqbz/⌨ jvfqbz/⊥ jvfqbz/🐐 jvfqbz/̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̚̚ 16:02:49 AAAAARGH! 16:03:01 * boily mapoles b_jonas 16:03:04 hi 16:03:17 quintophi! 16:03:51 i just woke up 16:04:06 11am is a nice time to wake up. 16:04:22 yes sir 16:04:30 apparently the olsner family comes from: germany, preussen, and luchtenbugel. source: http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=olsner 16:04:30 this is the weekend 16:04:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:06:56 hi drone 16:09:33 boily: i also just woke up hth 16:09:55 @localtime oerjan 16:09:55 Local time for oerjan is Fri Dec 6 17:09:55 2013 16:10:04 oerjan: is it the freakin' weekend baby? 16:10:09 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:10:18 let's see if we can get rid of boily's sanity already. 16:10:36 quintopia: well that too. 16:11:32 * boily senses a disturbance in the Sanity... 16:13:51 it's the time of accelerated mass... 16:14:23 -!- augur has joined. 16:14:27 it's the time of change in momentum... 16:15:51 it's working across the distance... 16:16:40 * boily fiercely wields his mapole. 16:19:30 boily: resistance is fu^Wpotential divided by current 16:22:26 today is independence day? finland has gone mad? halp 16:24:08 it's that time of the year again when they eat mämmi and shoot down aliens 16:24:30 ... 16:25:10 ah but they are calmed down now apparently 16:27:25 Phantom_Hoover: the lack of evidence is because obama covered it up duh 16:31:24 `cat bin/unicode 16:31:26 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ # -*- encoding: utf-8 -*- \ import sys \ import unicodedata \ try: \ print u''.join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode('utf-8') \ except KeyError: \ print u'Unknown character.' 16:32:36 `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER H' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER M' 16:32:37 hm 16:33:13 `unidecode 粿條 16:33:14 ​[U+7CBF CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-7CBF] [U+689D CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-689D] 16:33:38 meh. not even nciku can define 粿. 16:35:13 google translate says "Cake" hth 16:38:41 “cooked rice for making cake”. not quite not quite related to what 粿條 means (kuy teav, or hủ tiếu), which is a kind of soup. 16:40:40 boily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_kway_teow#Etymology 16:41:17 oh. t. tdh. 16:41:31 yw. 16:45:25 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:47:29 `xyzzy 16:47:31 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: xyzzy: not found 16:48:02 `? xyzzy 16:48:04 Nothing happens. 16:51:17 `run echo 'A hollow voice says "Plugh"' >wisdom/plugh 16:51:21 No output. 16:53:38 -!- ruddy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:53:53 -!- ruddy has joined. 16:54:14 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:54:31 ruddy: are you magic? 16:54:32 ​are you? are 16:54:41 I am magic. I am also sane. 16:54:52 -!- realzies has joined. 16:54:58 What instructions/features should a CPU have to support certain more or less often used algorithms? 16:55:13 Like reversing bits for fast fourier transforms 16:55:36 Depends on what you want it to do I guess? 16:56:01 Yeah... but you know... 16:56:19 ruddy: are you sane? 16:56:20 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 16:56:22 There are instructions which are *important* for certain algorithms to work or make the efficient 16:56:29 fungot: is ruddy sane? 16:56:30 FireFly: hi fnord :) and then this one from a dostoyevsky novel. do you have an example of something that's infinite. :p though i guess they have an annoying registering system here, if that code would suddenly produce " 21" monitor 16:56:30 ​are you FireFly FireFly 16:56:36 like having cmpxchg supporting quadwords on 32bit machines 16:56:48 which allows tagged pointers which are required for certain lock free algorithms 16:57:14 Well yes but which algorithms do you want! 16:57:27 I mean, some are pretty commonly used functions I guess 16:57:31 Bitwise operations 16:57:34 Basic arithmetic 16:57:38 Moving values to memory 16:57:41 A stack 16:57:43 Jumps 16:57:44 etc 16:57:46 mroman_: or just cmpxchg in first place which you need to implement smp locks 16:57:55 no wait 16:57:58 um 16:58:18 no, you need cmpxchg for lock-free atomic values, not locks 16:58:34 test and set should be enough for locks I guess 17:01:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:03:23 what the..? ruddy, why did you ping out? 17:03:24 ​dummy provides: eval choose dummy 17:05:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:06:28 -!- conehead has joined. 17:10:55 mov cx,0 / xchg cx, word[LOCK] / jcxz LOCKED is sufficient, where 0 = locked, non-zero = unlocked 17:13:55 ruddy! 17:13:56 ​quintopia! quintopia! 17:14:04 ruddy! ruddy! 17:14:05 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 17:15:18 quintopia: not sure if having ruddy say that is worth much if its in the ignore list :P 17:15:23 ​probably 17:15:59 mrhmouse: it could be better, yeah 17:22:42 Look, even ruddy itself agrees 17:22:43 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 17:22:56 Yeah, I think it's better if it stays silent 17:23:00 ruddy: silence! 17:23:00 No clue what you mean. What do you think, fungot? 17:24:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:24:20 ruddy, do you read Homestuck? 17:24:21 ​@list read didn't read your 11:42 17:24:37 fungot, do YOU read Homestuck? 17:24:37 Taneb: thread-sleep! by way of optimization, but it's something weird 17:24:51 Well, Homestuck is pretty much always doing something weird 17:24:53 I think that's a fungot 'yes' 17:24:53 FireFly: will someone please echo the character at fnord to start nyx?? if so, what are they trying to say 17:25:12 fungot: how should I know what they're trying to say?! 17:25:13 FireFly: whatcha writing? c in bf? if so, i might add. now i'm sweating like a mule in sunny and humid florida. 17:25:25 TMI 17:26:15 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:29:07 mrhmouse: here's a better idea. make it so ruddy always has something to say. 17:29:10 ​ipv6 is 17:29:17 ruddy: IPv6 is what? 17:29:17 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 17:29:38 quintopia: ruddy is a big hack, though. I probably won't do any more work on it. 17:29:42 ​big 17:29:48 I might make a replacement, though. 17:30:04 mrhmouse: yes. write a new one. 17:30:55 ruddy: you hear that? they want to delete you. 17:30:56 ​we believe 17:31:38 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:32:17 ruddy: are you saying that you're in favor of that? 17:32:19 ​was i saying 17:32:27 ruddy: you're whimsical. 17:32:28 ​you're crack. 17:32:34 ruddy: gee, thank you 17:32:34 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 17:32:55 you'd think it'd at least say "hth" there 17:33:06 quintopia: where? 17:33:20 mrhmouse: when someone says thank you 17:33:38 Hm. ruddy: thank you. 17:33:38 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 17:34:12 Apparently we don't thank people enough for it to have a suitable response? It's also possible that it managed to skip all of the words while building a message. 17:34:27 ruddy: hth 17:34:27 ​hth 17:37:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:48:00 `thanks ruddy 17:48:01 ​`thanks FireFly 17:48:02 Thanks, ruddy. Thuddy. 17:48:02 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 17:48:28 Thuddy, ruddy 17:48:28 ​FireFly 17:49:30 -!- tertu has joined. 17:51:18 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:53:40 ruddy, I hope your sass survives in your next iteration. 17:53:42 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 17:53:52 That's gonna go, though. 17:55:00 mrhmouse: it would have been fine if it didn't fail to come up with anything so damn often 17:55:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:56:33 quintopia: that's mostly due to how it munges messages, which is just by throwing away random parts from several messages and then combining them 17:56:47 sometimes it just happens to throw everything out.. I'll fix that for the next one 17:56:51 -!- realzies has joined. 17:58:36 mrhmouse: my similar bot goes with the most unique word in the line that it could actually build a reply out of 18:00:42 FireFly: ruddy works in a similar way. It gets a list of the most similar messages in its history, giving more weight to uncommon words and shorter messages 18:00:50 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 18:01:03 alright, ruddy, that's annoying. I'm fixing you. 18:01:04 I don't know. What do you think, fungot? 18:01:10 -!- ruddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:02:59 -!- ruddy has joined. 18:03:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:03:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:08:04 ruddy: are you done being annoying? 18:08:05 ​consider and boing.. you're done 18:09:44 I hate it when professors think I misunderstood something and therefore don't bother to answer my actual question 18:14:52 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 18:15:00 `Hi 18:15:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Hi: not found 18:15:04 hm 18:15:11 `hello 18:15:12 Hello 18:18:27 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:18:29 mrhmouse: did you make it start over and try again when it fails to make a message? (with a timeout of course) 18:19:05 ruddy: make messages, not war 18:19:06 ​one of those lend-lease because replies are based off of the order of messages, and i'm 18:19:25 quintopia: without a timeout, but yes. 18:20:15 mrhmouse: what if it always fails because not enough data? infinite loop! 18:22:41 ruddy: hutenosa 18:22:42 No clue what you mean. What do you think, fungot? 18:22:48 quintopia: ^ 18:23:05 it has to have data before it starts munging. I put the loop in the munging logic 18:23:27 ruddy: hu te no sa 18:23:27 ​no 18:23:35 ruddy: okay.. :( 18:23:35 ​:( 18:23:40 mrhmouse: oh. cool. 18:23:50 ruddy: ruddy ruddy ruddy ruddy ruddy 18:23:51 ​quintopia quintopia 18:35:49 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 18:41:54 -!- L8D has joined. 18:45:50 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:47:01 are there any stack-syntax esolangs that operate on a stack of values (primitives or other stacks) and allow word definition? 18:52:33 mrhmouse: Forth? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forth 18:54:09 FireFly: I don't know that I'd consider Forth an esolang 18:56:41 Well it has an esolang article 18:57:16 As does Perl, which I guess supports the theory that it's an esolang 18:57:29 what about C++ 18:57:38 fungot: how do you measure a languages esotlanguishness? 18:57:38 boily: in sicp, like the multi-core systems that are capable of making a language about kitty pidgin. weirder things have happened 18:57:59 fungot: you're telling me that weirder things than kitty pidgins happened? 18:57:59 boily: ( impossible? oh well... bye, and thanks 18:58:04 fungot: you tease. 18:58:05 boily: i forgot the little lojban i know :( just asked for some " research". :p probably sells well. 18:58:24 fungot: is "research" a euphemism for something? 18:58:24 mrhmouse: try ' cat /etc/ passwd" read)), a+4n b+3n c+2n d+n e 18:59:35 bot euphemisms are weird 19:00:20 kmc: surprisingly, no 19:08:15 * boily fantasizes on finding a non-transitive loop in the wiki, where language A is more esoteric than B, which is more esoteric than C, and the latter being esotericer than A... 19:13:23 @tell Taneb the KJV/Markov mashup was mainstreamed by Boingboing → http://boingboing.net/2013/12/06/king-james-programming-markov.html 19:13:23 Consider it noted. 19:16:54 mrhmouse: re: stack-syntax esolangs etc.: golfscript 19:17:41 which is basically a forth clone with a bunch of handy FP-esque built-ins. like % is map and * is fold 19:18:27 but that doesn't have word defining, which I think mrhmouse asked for 19:18:35 (afaik..) 19:20:10 it has word defining to the point where you can redefine the value of 0 19:21:28 mrhmouse: yes. there is. but unfortunately, there is not one called "Stacks on Stacks on Stacks" but there should be 19:22:24 Would that operate on a stack stack stack, akin to befunge's stack stack? 19:23:04 FireFly: I BET IT WOULD HAVE A STACK STACK STACK STACK STACK STACK STACK STACK STACK ... 19:23:23 the Stack functor fixed point? 19:23:34 sure that thing 19:23:46 * boily grasps the air as his sanity flutters away “noooo! come back, precious sanity!” 19:28:45 Cannibalism http://i.imgur.com/9t19cZN.jpg 19:29:10 kiwis are the weirdest birds 19:40:32 -!- carado has joined. 19:46:00 :-D http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/210622/walmart-is-selling-prints-of-banksys-destroy-capitalism/ 19:47:00 magnificent. 19:48:19 "Graffiti artist Eddie Colla’s print, with the very ironic words “If you want to achieve greatness stop asking for permission,” is on the site and labeled as a Banksy piece, as is Thierry Guetta’s 2008 “Life is Beautiful” piece." 19:48:23 awesome 19:48:27 who here has seen _Exit Through the Gift Shop_ 19:52:33 -!- ^v has joined. 19:54:06 `ello ^v 19:54:08 ​^vello 19:54:35 11:54 yeah, I like to write in the common subset of haskell, c, perl, python, ruby, and tcl 19:54:38 11:54 other people like to write in the common subset of c and c++ 19:54:41 11:54 they're weird 19:55:16 <^v> `ReLcOmE ^v 19:55:19 ​^v: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: . (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 19:57:45 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 20:13:31 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:13:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:25:45 ion: Email didn't work either? 20:28:06 shachaf: Didn’t get around to emailing him yet. I thought i’d try on #ghc since he’s there and what i was going to talk to him about was GHC-related. 20:34:47 -!- dimasona has joined. 20:37:21 -!- dimasona has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:37:57 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 20:38:35 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:38:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:42:20 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:43:12 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 20:44:55 -!- Sellyme has joined. 20:45:54 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 20:47:55 -!- Sellyme has joined. 20:48:11 `unicode FEMALE REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM DRAWN BY SENILE OLD SEX ED TEACHER 20:48:13 Unknown character. 20:49:02 * boily chokes on his tea 20:49:10 Bike: what the. 20:50:32 Bike: congratulations, people are now staring at me because I'm snickering for no observable reason. 20:51:39 mrhmouse: that's me when reading fungot responses 20:51:39 FireFly: but it's all explained in the thread, only some days on random, so i would assume it works. i'm removing a feature no one knows even exists. would you like an extended abi 20:51:51 (sometimes, anyway) 20:52:01 -!- kgomziakov has joined. 20:52:04 fungot: what feature are you removing? 20:52:05 mrhmouse: i've gone through all the quotes. there are a few intermediate level papers on readscheme... did anyone ever build one of those ruby guys, wrote a slight variant of, which is really much simpler just to never leave the repl" but that isn't much 20:52:57 FireFly: yeah, sometimes there's too much babble to be funny. That was why I /joined ruddy - to be slightly less random 20:52:57 fungot: don't touch my PDF, you nefarious quote reader you. 20:52:58 boily: called lisp? heh. but you're talking about the meaning of 20:53:02 ​funny. egbert9e9, (mrhmouse is another random internet page 20:53:33 `unicode FUNGOT EXPLAINING EXTENSIBLE SCHEME PARSING TO SOMEBODY EATING POULET 20:53:34 Unknown character. 20:53:49 fungot's responses have a tendency to sometimes be hilariously inappropriate though, which ruddy's doesn't :( 20:53:49 FireFly: where is your source?" lolcode is popular because vb is hard to write 20:53:52 ​that's me when reading FireFly responses 20:53:55 fungot: do you like monoids 20:53:56 shachaf: hang on nerd joke? are there no scheme irc libs or whatnot 20:54:01 ruddy: oh you! 20:54:02 ​oh, thank you! 20:54:10 ruddy: do you like monoids? 20:54:11 ​do you like bugs? 20:54:15 zomg 20:54:20 ruddy: do you like nerd jokes? 20:54:21 ​hang on nerd joke? are there no scheme irc libs or whatnot 871) i don't even know anything about feather 20:54:24 i like bugs / i like bugs / i like bugs / i like bugs 20:54:28 shachaf: fungot saw through your question 20:54:29 FireFly: then i fnord at my expense of being practical!" things? 20:54:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1nsOKBgmOs 20:55:03 ruddy: at least give it a while before quoting other bots.. 20:55:06 ​at least 20:55:26 ruddy: at least fifteen minutes, please. 20:55:27 ​please. i pride myself on my low algorithmic randomness i've been here for fifteen seconds. don't be an ass. 20:55:32 hey, that was a bike quote, not a kmc quote! i demand restitution 20:55:49 ruddy: that doesn't look random at all 20:55:50 ​especially the random i assumed it was some 20:55:51 Bike: you've been plagiarized 20:55:58 ruddy you monster 20:55:59 ​you're only a 20:56:05 >: 20:56:13 ruddy: a what? he's only a what? 20:56:14 ​what? 20:56:23 ruddy: you're boring 20:56:24 ​a boring fungus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cliona_viridis 20:57:21 ruddy: that's a sponge 20:57:22 ​that's numberwang! that's irrelevant 20:57:42 why are all of the bots here so terrible at taxonomy ;_; 20:57:44 the bots. they are very sentient. 20:58:06 Bike: because we're the ones teaching them, I suppose 20:58:10 Bike: they are demonstrating solidarity and brotherhood towards each other. 20:59:26 fungot: funges ought to be your territory 20:59:27 FireFly: in lowercase i assume for unixy :p. but the windows world that does cr/ lf" char? 21:00:18 -!- kgomziakov has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:02:44 fungot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetiporus_sulphureus 21:02:45 boily: kotisivu.mtv3.fi/ quux if they don't mention the drivers or linux support or such? 21:02:52 Hello 21:02:57 `ello Vorpal 21:02:59 Vellorpal 21:03:21 -!- conehead has joined. 21:03:37 -!- mrhmouse1 has joined. 21:03:39 Vorpallo 21:04:05 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:06:57 that was odd.. power cycled. 21:07:02 -!- mrhmouse1 has changed nick to mrhmouse. 21:07:57 shachaf: rust is losing the generic "do" sugar 21:08:04 :'( 21:09:56 kmc: link to the announcement? 21:11:34 i don't have a link offhand 21:11:38 it may have already happened, even 21:12:33 the issue is that there are multiple kinds of closures, e.g. stack closures and uniquely-owned heap closures 21:13:15 and we used to infer from a lambda which kind it is, but no longer (for some reason) 21:13:34 so "do" (which is a form of lambda) will only create the uniquely-owned heap closures 21:14:00 also those can be called once only, which means the body is allowed to move out of captured variables 21:15:55 rust: the language with out-of-body closure experience! 21:20:47 kmc: which sugar was that again 21:21:41 do f(x,y) |z| { ... } ⇒ f(x, y, |z| { ... }) 21:21:48 where |z| { ... } is a lambda 21:22:12 also if there are no arguments to f or no parameters in the lambda then "do" lets you leave off the list entirely 21:22:17 e.g. do spawn { ... thread body ... } 21:22:29 ⇒ spawn(|| { ... thread body ...}) 21:23:00 oh, that 21:23:03 v. rubyy 21:24:40 rubby 21:24:47 and i suppose it is 21:25:05 but w/o the thing where 'return' in the body causes the enclosing function to return 21:25:10 (instead it's just not allowed :/) 21:25:50 there used to be a related sugar 'for' which would let you use 'break' and 'continue' and these things would make the closure return true or false 21:26:25 so that a for-each function could implement the desired loop control 21:26:28 that all got scrapped months ago 21:26:50 now 'for' is a sugar for calling .next() repeatedly on an iterator object like any boring old language 21:27:30 :t for 21:27:31 Not in scope: `for' 21:27:31 Perhaps you meant one of these: 21:27:31 `T.for' (imported from Data.Traversable), 21:27:35 :t forM 21:27:35 Monad m => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m [b] 21:28:50 :t T.for 21:28:51 (Applicative f, Traversable t) => t a -> (a -> f b) -> f (t b) 21:29:20 kmc: ruby has two different kinds of lambda thingies, with two different behaviors for return 21:29:27 lambda { ... } and proc { ... } 21:29:45 i should make a ruby thing that uses continuations to implement the "return" 21:29:52 so that it works even when you return the proc/lambda 21:30:22 kmc: weren't they going to change it to return Just x/Nothing instead of True/False 21:31:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Ceci n'est pas un poulet.). 21:31:41 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:35:18 :) 21:35:49 i guess i was unclear but you know what i mean 21:46:24 -!- evalj has joined. 21:52:56 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:54:26 fungot: Hey, that's mooz's befunge site, I think that link is dead. 21:54:26 fizzie: this is unix without a nice gui would use native widgets. but i have done 21:54:56 this is unix without a nice gui 21:54:57 i know this 21:55:34 fungot: what's the best thing 21:55:34 shachaf: for call/ cc call/ cc, and has been commented on extensively elsewhere... yes.... one is the lhs the other one 21:56:20 call/cc call/cc: the best thing. 21:56:38 ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)) 21:56:43 (Also we had some of that "my balls" thing, I'm not entirely sober.) 21:56:44 (cc call/) 21:56:59 Cc: call/@call.cc 21:57:07 fungot: are you sober 21:57:08 shachaf: kaxul reads in xml, e.g. for port operations. linear-update operations may be destructive, but you can play with car and cdr 21:57:16 fungot you are drunk 21:57:16 shachaf: i think that 21:57:21 aww http://call.cc/ 21:57:24 fungot: i think that too 21:57:24 shachaf: and i wouldn't say that. you prefer for/ let keywords and just put the function variable at the front 21:57:36 ion: It "may" be for sale. 21:58:01 Yeah, by the extortionists 21:59:21 "Welcome To The Domain CALL.CC This domain is under construction. Please check back at a later date for updates, or to get more information about the domain, you may email the registrant using the link below." 21:59:27 That's what was there in 2003/2004. 22:00:04 I had the vaguest notion that there actually was a Scheme site with that kind of address, but perhaps I'm just thinking of call-cc.org, the home of CHICKEN. 22:18:51 -!- muskrat has joined. 22:28:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:29:27 Aaaah I think I've started a new Haskell Compiler Project 22:30:08 On the basis that we're at York 22:30:15 But why? 22:30:19 And there's already been a York Haskell Compiler 22:30:27 We're calling it the New York Haskell Compiler 22:30:33 ouch. 22:30:35 int-e, fun and education, mainly 22:30:36 :-D 22:31:01 the next one will be yayhc? 22:31:16 * ion forks yhc and calls it Fork Haskell Compiler 22:31:43 ion, you do not want to, the build system is a 10000 line python script for some bizarre reason 22:31:49 We're starting from scratch 22:32:13 Please tell me it’s 10k lines of generated code. 22:33:08 Nope 22:33:27 d o e s t y p i n g q u a l i f y a s g e n e r a t i o n o f t e x t? 22:33:27 Development stopped when the one guy who was any good at Python left 22:34:02 `? science 22:34:04 science? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:34:39 taneb: ಠ 22:35:02 `run echo 'Semi-automatic text generation.' > wisdom/science 22:35:06 No output. 22:35:15 -!- L8D has joined. 22:38:22 oh yuck, sconscript. 22:38:35 #haskell: “ Is anyone here really familiar with Pipes?” I wanted to say kmc. 22:38:36 (I just remembered that I have seen that before.) 22:39:37 * kmc rolls eyes 22:39:48 whoa, int-e in #esoteric 22:40:08 * int-e blames lambdabot 22:44:25 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:44:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:54:40 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:57:20 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:01:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:02:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:03:27 kmc: is the "kmc drugz" thing getting old 23:04:06 it was old before you were born 23:04:44 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:10:51 oerjan: you were old before i was born :'( 23:11:13 scary 23:12:14 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:25:08 shachaf: just a little 23:28:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:29:51 how old is oerjan compared to shachaf? or how young is shachaf? 23:29:55 attending a talk on compiler-based software diversification, i.e. generating a different binary for every user so that it's hard to write an exploit which works for all of them 23:30:03 Do you understand this one yet? 23:30:21 kmc: that's like how some jits randomly insert nops and so on? 23:30:25 which is a cool idea 23:30:28 kmc: interesting 23:30:30 also a p. #esoteric idea 23:30:35 shachaf: i don't know about that 23:31:13 hmm, an esolang that ends up slightly different for every user, that's something 23:31:40 I would think randomly inserting NOPs might slow it down or make too large file, but rearranging basic blocks might be OK in some circumstances, and rearranging global variables, functions, and so on, can also work. 23:31:52 kmc: e.g. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595034 23:31:59 can't find a good reference but i read about it somewhere 23:32:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:32:26 to make the "jit spraying" thing more difficult 23:32:28 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:32:33 ah 23:33:19 ah, because a NOP will re-synchronize the instruction framing 23:33:26 or enough NOPs will 23:35:14 zzo38: that link discussion mentioned the impact being negligible for nops about every 64 bytes 23:35:48 which gives you, what, about 32 bytes worth of exploit code 23:35:54 w/ small instructions only 23:35:59 still might be enuf though 23:36:07 ?messages-loud 23:36:07 GreyKnight said 5h 12m 17s ago: I think I am turning into you. I feel like I'm going to write a web browser... somebody stop me! o_o 23:36:09 or https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677272 23:36:20 not finding other links 23:36:46 hm, NaCl does something similar for a different reason 23:36:52 no instruction can span a 32-byte boundary 23:37:07 that sounds more predictable 23:37:26 and indirect jumps/calls must be preceded by a masking instruction which aligns to a 32-byte boundary 23:38:05 but I don't think that helps (or intends to help) against using NaCl to infiltrate a payload which you enter using a separate control flow hijack vuln 23:38:58 right 23:39:05 but this seems similar to the thing your talk is about 23:39:30 yes 23:41:01 i wonder if people will eventually focus more and more on exploits which don't redirect control flow at all 23:41:04 i saw a paper about those 23:41:05 maybe from you 23:41:55 it might be nice to just disable all exploits 23:42:49 which paper 23:45:58 this one i think: http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/73104/usenix05data_attack.pdf 23:46:39 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:47:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:50:57 -!- Halite has joined. 23:50:59 -!- Halite has quit (Changing host). 23:50:59 -!- Halite has joined. 23:50:59 -!- Halite has quit (Changing host). 23:50:59 -!- Halite has joined. 23:51:17 I uploaded it to imgur. http://imgur.com/gallery/Zp71DUL <-- good work with the -8 points, also i think that meme which i've noticed at least once before is already old. 23:51:30 I have an idea for a new programming language [seriously this time]. 23:52:09 better than that fake hilton tweet, i guess 23:52:11 Breaking news: meme seen to exist more than once 23:52:12 it is about how to program with irc join/quits 23:52:16 *is it 23:52:33 A script could be a finite state machine 23:52:45 ion: some memes feel old the second time you see them, i think this may be one. 23:52:45 -!- muskrat has joined. 23:53:19 or maybe it's just me who is old. 23:53:34 or you're too yougn 23:53:37 young* 23:54:02 youth think 50 is an old age. Elderly think 100 is an old age. 23:54:03 Halite: then you all are. 23:54:33 the person giving the talk is http://www.michaelfranz.com/ 23:55:12 shachaf: another cool idea is, you do profile-directed optimization and you do less randomization of code within hot loops 23:55:55 hm i guess this is unlike the jit thing in that the attacker doesn't supply the code 23:55:59 A script could be a finite state machine <-- that's also rather hard to call new. 23:56:15 idea being that ROP exploits need gadgets from all over the code, so you can disrupt them by only messing with cold paths 23:57:12 add a tape, and you have a turing machine, one of the oldest computation models there are 23:58:31 shachaf: imo rust should do this inside unsafe { ... } blocks 2013-12-07: 00:00:03 oerjan: hmm, I think you sent me a message earlier... I may have intended to answer 00:00:41 maybe it was not important? 00:00:55 kmc: what if you want rust not to do it 00:01:04 imo doubleplusunsafe { ... } 00:02:06 `pastelogs oerjan> @.* olsner 00:02:41 danger(10000) { ... } 00:02:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32727 00:03:23 do badness(10000) { ... } 00:04:13 oerjan: ah! then I would guess "yes" 00:04:20 pwned boxes 00:04:46 though I'm not sure how much asbestos contamination does to fireproof a spider 00:05:02 olsner: we are all doomed hth 00:07:36 oerjan: hopefully only wales is doomed hth 00:08:11 hm well as long as they cannot swim 00:08:34 p. sure wales can swim 00:10:29 it's hard to argue with a pun based on a misspelling. 00:15:59 but if they wash up on the beach they're property of the queen 00:16:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:16:43 hi Sgeo 00:20:07 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:21:11 -!- mroman_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:21:25 -!- mroman_ has joined. 00:21:26 kmc: so that's how england got wales in the first place? 00:21:40 -!- ter2 has joined. 00:21:45 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:22:02 yep 00:22:15 thx it all makes sense now 00:36:24 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:42:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:43:01 -!- Zuu has joined. 00:55:28 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 00:56:42 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:57:54 ruddy: hutenosa 00:57:54 ​hutenosa 00:58:32 hi ruddy 00:58:32 ​hi hi 00:58:38 ruddy: are you enjoying finnish independence day 00:58:39 ​because i'm `thanks independence day also it's independence day 00:58:46 ruddy: have you declared yourself independent from finland 00:58:47 ​i think that is true independent of number of cells 00:58:55 ruddy: escargot 00:58:55 No clue what you mean. What do you think, fungot? 00:59:02 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:01:19 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:02:50 -!- drlemon has joined. 01:06:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 01:07:07 `thanks independence day also it's independence day 01:07:09 Thanks, independence day also it's independence day. Thindependence day also it's independence day. 01:16:33 -!- Halite has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:19:46 why is there no dramatic reading of the call of cthulhu for beginning readers on the internet 01:21:19 -!- conehead has joined. 01:21:56 coppro: they keep mysteriously disappearing together with the readers 01:22:42 oerjan: but I can find the *regular* version fine 01:22:46 I just want the seussized one 01:24:11 coppro: just read through the iwc christmas comics hth http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/archive.html 01:24:46 (Dec 24th) 01:25:18 One cthulhu, two cthulhu, red cthulhu, blue cthulhu. 01:26:12 The reason must be that dramatic readers who like to post stuff on internet don't like that book or do not know how to read it for some reason. Either that or they are hiding it. 01:27:04 happy independence day, nooodl 01:27:28 sinterklaas "basically that" 01:27:57 sinterklaas = basically cthulhu 01:34:02 `? science 01:34:04 Semi-automatic text generation. 01:34:15 oh come on, that doesn't even backronym. 01:34:31 I notice that too. 01:35:05 `? zzo38 01:35:07 zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. 01:35:11 `? fungot 01:35:12 fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone. 01:35:16 `? ruddy 01:35:17 ​`? shachaf `? shachaf 01:35:18 ruddy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:35:18 ​HackEgo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:35:25 hi ruddy 01:35:26 ​hi hi 01:35:33 ruddy: you show that bot! 01:35:34 ​eille! no violence against my peaceful bot! 01:35:40 ruddy hi ruddy 01:35:41 ​hi hi 01:35:46 loop, ruddy, loop 01:35:47 ​and in 01:35:47 ruddy: today is the day i am going to sleep 01:35:51 ​got to 01:35:59 ruddy: you gotta do what you gotta do 01:36:01 ​gotta get 01:36:54 `run echo "HackEgo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯" >wisdom/ruddy 01:36:55 ​`run echo 01:36:58 No output. 01:39:17 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:41:25 * int-e blames lambdabot <-- ok how did lambdabot get you here 01:42:06 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:43:25 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:38 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:44:18 oerjan: I looked at the list of channels that it joins automatically 01:44:39 -!- yorick_ has joined. 01:44:49 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:44:51 fiendish! 01:45:15 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:46:08 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:48:16 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:36 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:49:02 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:49:27 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:50:08 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:26 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 01:51:23 Zuu_: fix your connection thx 01:51:50 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 01:53:18 oerjan: tis fine, i was just configuring something :/ 01:53:29 good, good 01:53:47 is there some canonical algorithm for assigning binary codes to each node of a state diagram 01:54:16 Bike: it's called "counting" hth 01:54:51 i mean, that minimizes the logic 01:55:28 wat 01:55:57 like in a circuit implementing the state diagram. 01:56:10 minimizing hamming distance between connected nodes for instance 01:56:14 there's an algorithm for minimizing the number of states iirc 01:56:22 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:56:24 not what i mean 01:57:06 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:57:25 sounds messy anyway. 01:57:53 enough that i expect the answer is "no" 01:58:30 well there are multiple constraints you could optimize for, like size of the state 01:59:01 -!- Zuu has joined. 01:59:01 yes, but it sounds like something NP-complete or worse. 01:59:29 so whatever algorithm you find won't be "canonical". 01:59:43 size of state is easy, but I expect that often you'll want to use more bits than are strictly required, to encode some features of states. 01:59:47 unless it happens to be for surprising reasons. 01:59:58 --> it's a hard problem. 02:04:13 -!- yorick_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:04:13 i'm wondering this because my homework gave constraining hamming distance to one as a rule of thumb but also said it was usually impossible 02:04:16 ~engineering~ i guess 02:04:16 (a nice example of such features comes up when your automaton is the result of a powerset construction; it may be better to implement the nondeterministic automaton and use one bit per original state) 02:04:39 What's a powerset construction. 02:05:03 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerset_construction 02:19:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:21:53 In a 6502 code, if I have the accumulator being zero, what is an efficient way to make the zero flag cleared if some value in the zero-page is zero, and set if it is nonzero? 02:26:04 what instructions alter the zero flag again 02:27:21 Loads, transfers, arithmetic. 02:28:27 ADC, AND, ASL, BIT, CMP, CPX, CPY, DEC, DEX, DEY, EOR, INC, INX, INY, LDA, LDX, LDY, LSR, ORA, PLP, ROL, ROR, SBC, TAX, TAY, TSX, TXA, TXS, TYA. 02:29:00 loads huh 02:29:30 obviously LDA whatever gives the opposite flag setting of what you want 02:29:47 oerjan: Yes I can see that 02:30:36 hm, no xor 02:30:42 Bike: EOR 02:31:09 has everyone used the 6502... 02:31:24 anyway i have no idea. 02:31:52 way back. although the manual for the assembly was missing instructions... 02:32:10 hm what's PLP 02:32:17 I wonder if just pushing the flags onto the stack and then testing the zero flag with BIT or AND, would be best way. 02:32:25 oerjan: The opposite of PHP. 02:32:27 (HTH) 02:32:31 oerjan: PLP is pop flags from stack 02:32:32 fizzie: THX 02:32:46 hm right 02:35:24 hey zzo38, i'm planning on making some CPUs with my FPGA. do you have any fun ISAs to recommend 02:35:54 Bike: imo make mmix 02:36:08 i guess that would make sense 02:36:32 though i don't remember anything about it other than that it drops the crazy decimal stuff and has a zillion registers. 02:39:05 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:39:44 Bike: Yes, MMIX is one possibility; GCC supports it, even. 02:40:14 i'm not actually sure how i should go about getting code onto the thing, there's no serial port. guess i'll have to get another cable and figure out uart 02:41:12 You can also try 6502 if you want to program it in assembly language (and if it is the variant used in the Famicom, then there is no decimal arithmetic either) 02:42:07 any more esoteric ideas? 02:42:23 imo make your own isa 02:42:28 hi 02:42:29 i was thinking of trying imlementing the processor from 'lambda the ultimate opcode'. no alu 02:42:32 himc 02:55:37 apparently there was an asynchronous RISC called "AMULET", i'm thinking of finding some specs 02:55:49 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:30:09 I guess to formalize a statement like "C is Turing complete" you would talk about a family of languages C_i where sizeof(void *) = i, and require that the languages have a uniform description 03:30:13 so I think that doesn't work 03:30:39 because any given TM (that you would try to implement in C_i for some i) can take arbitrarily large inputs and use arbitrarily much tape, even a vastly more than superexponential function of the input length 03:31:26 intptr_t rather puts a damper on things, eh 03:31:59 -!- tertu3 has joined. 03:32:10 What if a "char" cell can contain an arbitrary integer, and it is C89 rather than C99? 03:32:28 can you have a C where malloc never fails and just keeps giving you new pointers 03:33:30 zzo38: what's the relevant difference between C89 and C99? 03:34:14 kmc: I think C99 defines a lot of stuff that tells you how many bits everything is, isn't it? 03:34:45 c89 doesn't have char_bit? 03:35:26 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:56:27 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:56:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:09:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:09:43 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:14:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:15:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:27:33 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:46:02 Is there an editor for 6502 assembly language files (even if the file includes macros and other stuff) that will also display the generated hex codes and the bytes and cycles of each line, and the bytes and cycles of any highlighted block, and the addresses, etc? 04:49:56 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:50:13 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:58:53 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 05:01:51 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:08:47 http://slashdot.org/story/13/11/06/1323223/mozilla-backtracks-on-third-party-cookie-blocking 05:08:54 Said as though third-party cookies are evil 05:08:56 *sigh* 05:09:17 because they are? 05:09:22 They can be 05:11:13 i think i would be happier if i hung out in a channel where when people said stuff like that they were talking about politics or such 05:11:39 I have legitimate use cases for third-party cookies :/ 05:11:51 (non-advertising uses, I mean) 05:12:01 i have legitimate use cases for mah diiiiick 05:15:19 http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/ 05:17:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:33:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:35:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:04:34 Bike: ^5 06:12:43 Did you see what Famicom Z-machine programming I have made up so far? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Famicom_Z-machine 06:13:23 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:14:15 kmc: i don't know this notation. does it mean that you as well have legitimate use cases for mah dick 06:15:10 it means "high five" 06:15:15 so, kinda? 06:16:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:16:26 cool 06:17:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:17:34 diiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiick 06:17:38 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:18:18 zzo38: why did you choose famicom as the machine you want to develop this for 06:19:04 nice kmc 06:23:04 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 06:23:09 thx 06:23:40 quintopia: It is one computer that doesn't have Z-machine interpreter on it, is one reason. 06:24:01 zzo38: you think every computer should be able to interpret Z-machine? 06:25:40 @tell ais523 it looks like James Parsons has decided not to make a FLARP! language, you should delete the page. 06:25:40 Consider it noted. 06:26:54 quintopia: It may be intended. Infocom didn't do it since Famicom is by Nintendo of Japanese, but now other people can make it too. Also, to practice to write such programs. 06:27:42 zzo38: what other kinds of programs like that do you plan on writing in the future 06:28:50 quintopia: I am not exactly sure by now. 06:29:06 Did you find any mistakes in this program or any other comment/questions? 06:35:59 i don't have the assembler or the emulator or test programs. in short, i am a poor alpha tester. sorry. 06:36:41 It isn't complete enough for testing the program; I mean if you noticed anything wrong with the program just by looking at it. 06:38:05 nope! i 06:38:12 i'm not smart enough to do that either 06:40:10 Do you know anything about Z-machine programming, Famicom programming, and/or 6502 programming? 06:40:28 NOPE 06:40:47 you've found yourself a very esoteric niche 06:41:08 That wiki contains a lot of information about programming NES and Famicom. 06:41:31 (and other related systems, such as Vs.Unisystem) 06:44:21 One thing a bit unusual about this Z-machine interpreter is that several things are decided at compile-time; this may make the program more efficient in some ways. 06:49:48 The CPU chip used in that computer is the 2A03, which contains two cores which is the CPU core and APU core. The CPU core is a 6502 but with BCD arithmetic disabled (the logic is still there, it is just disconnected from the rest of the circuit). the APU core is used for audio (two square waves, one triangle wave, one noise, one DPCM) but also I/O ports and a DMA transfer. 06:50:11 how is the apu controlled 06:50:38 The APU is controlled by memory-mapped registers $4000-$4020. 06:53:03 The address of the DMA transfer is hard-coded and cannot be changed; you can change the source address to any 256-byte boundary, and when activated it reads the data from all 256 addresses in that page and writes the results all to a single address (not to 256 separate addresses). 06:58:29 why disable BCD 06:58:47 -!- tertu3 has changed nick to tertu. 06:59:24 don't most z-machine games expect a somewhat wider screen than the famicom has 07:01:05 tertu: Yes, but I do with what we have. (Also, this program is only version 1 to 3 Z-machine) 07:02:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Z-machine480.jpg 07:02:22 iirc wasn't the bcd part of the chip still on it, just with the wires cut so you couldn't access it 07:02:34 Bike: Yes, it is like that. 07:03:23 why tho 07:04:11 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:04:49 Due to overscan, the visible area is only 30x26, but if no words are longer than 30 then it would fit. However you probably will need to scroll the screen a lot. 07:07:27 Also, for simplicity, everything is displayed in uppercase (which is OK in version 1-3 only, as long as it can be distinguished internally in all cases that matter) 07:09:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:10:57 kmc: Apparently due to patents on the 6502 CPU design. 07:11:36 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:13:24 In addition, it doesn't implement the status line (there is a bit in the header to indicate this), and the SPLIT and SCREEN operations are not supported (there is also the bit in the header to indicate this too). 07:16:48 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:38:30 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:39:29 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:01:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:03:50 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 08:35:43 zzo38: heh 09:54:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:19:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:20:43 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:49:27 -!- Sorella has joined. 10:50:00 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 10:50:00 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:05:04 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:14:38 -!- carado has joined. 11:44:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:11:47 Huh, there's really no NES Z-machine interpreter? That is quite surprising. 12:20:46 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:21:43 -!- int-e has joined. 12:30:11 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:35:02 surely there is 12:35:05 somewhere 12:40:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:43:09 x - y = 12:43:14 er, oops 13:16:15 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:20:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 13:21:03 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:02:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:05:25 -!- L8D has joined. 14:09:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:10:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:24:24 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:39:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:42:43 anyone here have advice on how to read a line from a file without using stdio? 15:43:49 like, I can think of a few ways, was wondering what the best way is 15:43:58 byte-at-a-time is pretty slow, I'd hope to avoid that 15:45:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:45:29 is it ok to read more than the first line? can you seek? 15:45:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:45:58 olsner: I can seek, and I can over-read 15:46:14 also I have an advisory read lock on the file and everything that touches the file respects advisory locks 15:46:21 so I can guarantee it won't change while I'm reading 15:46:24 hmm, how about mmap and strchr/memchr? 15:46:39 huh, I hadn't thought of that at all 15:46:47 although, this should work on Windows too 15:46:58 I believe there's some sort of compatibility layer somewhere translating lseek, read, etc 15:47:07 but it almost certainly doesn't translate mmap 15:47:32 `olist 934 15:47:36 olist 934: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 15:48:36 Windows certainly can mmap files, but it probably doesn't have a function called mmap 15:48:55 yeah, it's not a case of "can Windows do that", but "can I do that without writing a bunch of Windows-specific code" 15:50:48 hmm, why can't you just use stdio though? (not that stdio has a portable and safe getline function that I know of) 15:52:07 olsner: because there's a huge amount of jumping around seeking and locking and unlocking and so on, stdio buffering would screw this up 15:54:41 Just read into a growing buffer and stop when strchr('\n') isn't -1. 15:56:20 yeah, that's what I was planning 16:00:24 Also, surely fgets on Windows has correct behavior? 16:00:43 Oh, without using stdio. 16:00:44 Hyuk. 16:00:51 So, reimplementing stdio for no good reason. 16:01:16 Gregor: yeah, pretty much 16:01:34 or, "reimplementing stdio because it doesn't like files unexpectedly shrinking while you're writing to them" 16:02:07 * Gregor thinks for a second... 16:02:26 If a file unexpectedly shrinks while you're writing to it, stdio's correct behavior should be to re-expand the file with zeroes. 16:02:28 What are you seeing? 16:03:07 Gregor: re-expanding the file with zeroes 16:03:22 whereas the behaviour that I /want/ is to abort the write 16:03:25 which implies no buffering 16:03:33 because I need to know what has and hasn't been written at any given point 16:08:15 or put it this way: the previous code used stdio, it kept failing in bizarre ways because trying to keep track of buffering on top of everything else was just too much 16:19:11 Does the halting problem imply, that there actually is a program where it is undecidable if it halts or not? 16:19:20 Or does it just state, that no algorithm can decide it 16:19:47 or are those statements equivalent? 16:21:44 usually one proofs that for any would be decision procedure for the halting program there is some input which it gets wrong (either giving a wrong answer or failing to terminate). 16:21:48 *proves 16:23:12 mroman_: In a sense, whether those statements are equivalent is philosophical. If you believe that humans are super-Turing, then they're not. If humans are not super-Turing, then they are. 16:24:47 mroman_: Gödel's Theorem actually does explicitly construct an undecidable program 16:37:14 I'm searching for a proof of the halting problem that is actually understandable :) 16:37:23 since like 6 years 16:37:27 and I haven't found a single one 16:38:36 The ones that don't make use of crazy math feed the program to itself 16:38:38 like uhm 16:39:19 L(Q,x) halts, if Q(x) does not and does not halt, if Q(x) halts 16:39:29 then L(L,L) and stuff goes boom 16:39:48 and my brain just keeps yelling: How the fuck would that work 16:40:14 huh? 16:40:18 where's the problem with it 16:40:21 Well 16:40:29 if L(L) halts, L(L) does not halt 16:40:33 L computes whether Q halts for Input X 16:40:37 yeah 16:40:51 so L(L,L) computes whether L(L) halts 16:41:01 exactly 16:41:04 but what's the input of the second L? 16:41:38 the second L is actually the description of L 16:41:46 so it does not need any input 16:43:00 Yeah. But what are you actually deciding then? 16:43:19 Assuming f(x) is a function 16:43:35 L(Q,x) should test whether Q(x,x) halts. 16:43:36 and L(f,x) tries to state whether f(x) can actually be computed 16:43:58 then L(L,L) does test termination of L(L,L) and all works out as claimed. 16:44:01 so it computes L(f,f) 16:44:03 which is f(f) 16:44:07 and that don't make sense 16:44:44 well 16:45:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:45:13 it is not actually f(f), it is more like f(written down definition of f) 16:45:32 as i.e. gödel number or the like 16:45:35 yeah, the "how do you write down the definition of f" is the main mathematical content of the proof 16:45:36 I have no idea what that definition is supposed to be 16:45:39 everything else is pretty trivial 16:45:47 The definition does not have any input 16:46:06 the defintion is just a number or a string or whatever 16:46:15 so for what input are you actually trying to calculate whether it halts or not 16:46:16 and as such does not need any kind of input 16:47:06 at L(Q,x) you test Q with input x,x as int-e stated 16:47:16 so it will never ever come to f(f) there 16:47:36 so 16:47:41 L(L,L) computes L(L,L) 16:47:48 yes, and inverts it 16:47:55 (doesn't it?) 16:48:00 yeah 16:48:15 so, if L(L,L) halts, L(L,L) does not halt 16:48:21 therefore, L cannot exist 16:48:40 What if L is like universes in type theory? 16:49:20 So you would actually have L_i(L_i-1,L_i-1) 16:49:27 I don't know if that would help 16:49:27 bleh… actually what I really want is a scanf that gives pointers into the original string and decodes base 64 and decompresses zlib 16:50:08 What if I assume that there are two turing machines that are able to decide the halting problem 16:50:10 or, no 16:50:15 I don't know what i Want 16:50:16 L(Q,x) and G(Q,x) 16:50:17 ais523: What you actually want is a program that writes all your software for you, as you want it 16:50:24 Even if you don't know how you want it 16:50:25 and then do L(G,G) and G(L,L) 16:50:28 FreeFull: yeah, that'd be nice, but it'd take too long to impl 16:50:53 Well, you wouldn't be the one to impl it 16:50:55 L(L,L) won't work 16:50:57 It'd already be impld 16:51:07 but maybe L(G,G)? 16:51:25 L(G,G) would by definition be G(G,G) 16:51:49 hm yeah 16:52:32 L(G,L) would be G(L,L) would be L(L,L) 16:53:16 mroman_: you can play such tricks, but you need more arguments, L(G,L) and G(G,L), where L(G,L) tests whether G(G,L) terminates and G(G,L) tests where L(G,L) terminates. 16:53:59 and these things become tedious soon. 16:55:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:27:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:38:13 http://codepad.org/Z6Z4ZT3b <- you can also argue that way 17:38:26 but it leaves unclear whether P(i) actually exists or not 17:38:53 but we know, that if it does, that no program can decide that stuff 17:41:10 "i put something undecideable into something that does decides everything, therefore it can't exists" sounds pretty strange 17:46:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:48:17 elan's dad is starting to get annoying. 17:50:07 ais523: you managed to make an `olist that wasn't duplicate, this is _highly_ irregular hth 17:51:15 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 17:51:45 luckily they seem to be on their way of his subplot 17:51:47 I think 17:51:57 s/of/away from/ 17:52:04 FireFly: um did you even _read_ today's update. 17:52:26 yeees 17:52:34 well, we'll see 17:52:36 what are you reading? 17:52:45 order of the stick 17:52:50 ah. 17:54:31 I have a bookmark on #726, haven't read it since. 17:56:14 oerjan: well the forum thread was only at 4 pages, and I'd checked like half an hour before 18:01:12 but what's the input of the second L? <-- i think you are a bit confused. L should only take one argument, and L(Q) should decide whether Q(Q) halts. 18:02:04 (and do the opposite.) 18:02:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:02:50 it's the initially assumed halting function which takes two arguments, not L. 18:04:29 it's quite possible your source was confused about this, wouldn't be the first time. 18:13:48 What if L is like universes in type theory? <-- then you get lots of nice proofs about separation in complexity hierarchies. 18:14:01 Guys 18:14:06 I wanted to ask a question 18:14:09 But I forget what it is 18:14:18 Can we find my question using some sort of programming trick 18:14:28 good, good, as i should be leaving now. 18:14:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:14:48 oerjan: And of course you always need a higher hierarchy to prove something about the one right below 18:17:38 found on Reddit: someone's trying to translate Haskell's Prelude into pure GNU Make (i.e. no shelling out or scripting): https://github.com/PiPeep/prelude.mk/blob/master/prelude.mk 18:18:06 although it seems pretty partial atm 18:20:38 What 18:21:01 Ok, that is rather incomplete 18:21:38 yeah 18:21:44 I'd probably upvote it if it were more complete 18:21:59 like, how does PiPeep plan to handle lists of lists, for instance? 18:36:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:38:19 -!- conehead has joined. 18:39:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:43:06 -!- muskrat has joined. 19:17:02 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:26:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:32:36 -!- ^v has joined. 19:43:38 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 19:45:00 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:51:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:52:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:03:54 Is there a language that is directly based on set theory? 20:04:09 LISP is pretty close but it is not really 20:04:23 And there are a lot of languages based on axiomatic systems 20:04:32 But I can't think of any from ZFC 20:06:07 most sets being unrepresentable doesn't hel. 20:06:08 p 20:07:03 Well all sets are representable in ZF-NC 20:07:47 But well, µ-recursive functions are based on some axiomatic system of integers 20:07:58 Logical combinators as well, and lambda calculus 20:08:09 So I'm wondering if there's any for some flavor of set theory 20:08:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice#Statements_consistent_with_the_negation_of_AC iunno 20:10:24 Hm 20:11:02 I think constructive set theory requires both the negation of choice and of the excluded middle 20:11:04 zfc isn't constructive, i guess is what i mean. 20:12:24 http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/set-theory-constructive/ oh good. 20:12:57 -!- carado has joined. 20:13:28 A lot of people feel strongly about axiomatic systems, which I always find weird 20:13:40 Like one of them is truer than another 20:13:48 Is there any reason I shouldn't treat Red Bull as slightly weaker coffee that tastes much, much better? 20:14:09 I do that, actually 20:14:10 But 20:14:16 Redbull has a Stigma 20:14:33 People basically seem to treat it like DRUUUUGS 20:14:41 Also the taurine is kind of a boogey man 20:14:44 -!- keoni29 has joined. 20:14:57 Does the taurine even do anything? Also, I treat coffee as a drug, so 20:15:13 I drink coffee to get a specific effect 20:15:17 Not a clue 20:16:23 well it is a drug. 20:16:44 Also, I want something that has the taste of Red Bull without the caffeine, so I could drink it constantly without using it in drug mode. Technically still a drug I guess, but less dangerous to overconsume 20:17:11 Yeah, but I mean drug as in 20:17:13 Social stigma 20:21:44 I always assumed Red Bull was stronger than either 20:21:53 err, than coffee 20:21:55 I don't drink either 20:22:15 (in fact, I haven't drunk caffeinated drinks for like 8 years now) 20:22:30 -!- conehead has joined. 20:22:51 Redbull has about the same amount of caffeine as regular coffee 20:23:14 I'll stick to tea & occasional soft drinks 20:23:33 I'll stick with heroine 20:33:17 Does anyone here have experience with Forth? 20:33:30 some 20:34:00 I am building a microcomputer based on an eZ8 microcontroller and I have to decide what it boots into 20:34:13 We were thinking about Forth. 20:34:29 At the moment I just have this shell from which you can run programs: 20:35:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DyPKRJV9PI&feature=player_embedded 20:35:56 This is an old version of the current firmwae 20:35:59 *firmware 20:37:32 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:51:59 keoni29: yeah, Forth seems vaguely appropriate for that 20:52:12 its main uses are as a bootstrap language, and on embedded systems, and for making DSLs 20:52:20 and your use seems to fit into two out of three of those categories 20:57:31 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds). 20:57:39 I already wrote routines for comparing strings with a list of tokens 20:57:52 So writing an interpreter would not be a huge deal 20:58:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 20:58:09 It's all written in Z8 assembler 20:58:16 ais523, one of the people at my university seems to know you from b nomic 21:05:28 Taneb: hmm, interesting 21:05:32 there aren't that many B players 21:05:41 what's their name? or do you have a reason to keep it secret? 21:06:23 actually, considering the list of people who would say B rather than Agora 21:06:26 it's a very short list indeed 21:21:15 -!- keoni29 has quit (Quit: Omnimaga.org). 21:29:02 ais523, jameseb 21:29:59 oh, must be James Baxter 21:30:34 they've only posted to B 6 times, I had to search to see who it was 21:30:40 so I'm impressed that they can remember who I am 21:31:40 I think he said that he had a debate with you on an interpretation of a rule? 21:34:47 that happens a lot in nomics 21:35:41 Heh, I suppose 21:35:53 hehe 21:36:02 isn't that the only thing that happens in nomics? 21:36:12 olsner: well atm, nothing happens at all :-( 21:36:18 olsner: anything can happen in a nomic 21:36:20 but you should see BlogNomic for a nomic that's normally based on using the rules 21:36:24 rather than debating over them 21:36:43 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 21:40:43 Hmm 21:40:49 Someone is trying to log in as me on IRC 21:40:57 sock em 21:41:18 They are not succeeding 21:41:24 I am pretty sure that I am actually me 21:41:43 sock yourself just to be sure. 21:43:17 :3 21:43:34 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:45:06 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:45:31 -!- muskrat has joined. 21:52:03 Taneb: no, it's just that temple ghosts often have your name 21:52:41 I've had that happen to me occasionally 21:52:51 b_jonas: temple? I thought it was a 1 in 7 chance for ghosts generally 21:53:03 (or have I got the context completely wrong?) 21:53:21 I remember because I refactored that code earlier today due to making the player's name not a global variable 21:53:28 err, yesterday, probably 21:53:30 ais523: dunno, possible, I just spend lots of time in temples going in and out and get free ghosts for it 21:53:32 maybe this morning 21:53:38 I don't meet many ghosts in other places 21:53:42 b_jonas: why? is this some new farming method I've never heard of? 21:53:58 no, it's just that I have to leave and enter the temple for other reasons 21:54:05 the ghosts themselves are useless 21:54:11 right, but why did you kill the priest? for conversion purposes? 21:54:49 I didn't kill her! I was trying to save her! It was an accident and nothing to do with me! 21:54:58 I'm not responsible for where dragons breathe! 21:55:50 and it was a mistake to kill her so early, I should have donated more to her and THEN kill and sacrifice her 21:56:17 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:57:04 now you're going to blame it on me, in 3.4.3 the dragon would have ripped her apart with tooth and claw rather than using the breath attack 21:57:06 two mistakes, because I killed both the minetown priest and the dlvl15 priest too early, but at least the dlvl15 priest was totally necessary eventually because she was cross-aligned 21:57:21 you still have the Valley priest left 21:57:24 yes 21:57:39 I'll kill her only right before the asc run 21:57:41 now I wonder what happens if you StF a statue of a priest in the Orcustown temple 21:57:53 I should have donated all the gold to all three priests 21:58:01 but I messed it up, I can get the value of my gold only once now 21:58:04 also this playstyle is alien to me, I typically don't kill priests 21:58:12 hey, I'm chaotic 21:58:17 fair enough 21:58:23 also, um, can we move to #nethack4? 21:58:23 I'm (almost always) lawful 21:58:37 the discussion's only funny /because/ it's in the wrong channel 21:58:41 but if you like 21:59:15 it was way better before you managed to mention what the context was 21:59:46 olsner: I know 22:10:55 `quote context 22:10:57 112) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 715) then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /th 22:13:56 ais523: hi. got anything interesting in the works 22:15:10 quintopia: I wanted to get a NetHack 4 release out by tomorrow 22:15:14 but no way it's going to be ready on time 22:15:19 sad day 22:15:26 unless I recruit the entire population of people who are familiar with the codebase to help out, and probably not even then 22:15:51 Why tomorrow? 22:15:52 `quote 715 22:15:53 715) then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context 22:16:04 shachaf: 10th anniversary of NetHack 3.4.3 22:16:10 ais523: you should get zzo38 to make nethack 4 for famicom :D 22:16:30 ais523: Maybe aim for Apr 1. 22:17:04 quintopia: I actually joked about NetHack for NES in the release message last April 1, although I wasn't thinking about zzo38 at the time 22:17:09 just trying to find a platform that it obviously didn't wok on 22:17:13 *work on 22:20:54 how big is nethack? how hard could it be? 22:21:37 olsner: counting now 22:22:54 NetHack 3.4.3 is 206429 lines for the entire distribution; NetHack 4 (latest development version) is 150529 22:23:16 partly due to a lot of refactoring, partly due to dropping support for various obscure platforms 22:25:21 apparently cartridges ranged up to 1MB, so it should be reasonably possible 22:25:59 from what I remember, it's impossible to fit the NetHack binaries and a save file onto the same (1.44MB) floppy disk 22:26:58 Could you make a ridiculously NES-optimized version 22:27:08 me personally? probably not 22:27:13 in general, it might be possible 22:27:25 you could start with 3.1 or so and then turn all the optional features off, that'd help a bit 22:28:35 Also, I just realised that if homeopathy actually worked I'd be immune to caffeine by now 22:30:57 if homeopathy worked then all the world's oceans would be incredibly powerful medicine 22:33:25 the strongest shark poop solution in history 22:34:47 "I don't drink water. Fish fuck in it." 22:35:37 "I drink water. Sometimes I get thirsty." 22:36:05 a lot more than fish fuck in it if you know what i mean *seductive wink* 22:37:54 don't think i could manage that 22:38:16 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:38:18 i'm saying i'm going to fuck a jellyfish 22:40:47 i like water 22:41:10 because it's so easy? 22:41:14 although i've been drinking lots of non-water things for the past few months 22:41:22 (double entendre on the word "easy") 22:41:23 because, yes, it's so easy 22:41:46 shachaf: which things have you been drinking? 22:42:17 i think mostly various things that claim to be tea 22:43:06 i should drink proper tea, though 22:43:19 maybe become a tea snob 22:43:32 Bike: don't fuck a cuttle fish tho 22:43:49 YR NOSE MIGHT GET PREEEEEGNANT 22:44:01 Bike: cuddle a cuddlefish tho 22:44:10 i will 22:44:19 except it will probably vomit up ink and mucus on me 22:44:26 they're so cute 22:44:39 small price to pay i suppose 22:44:41 is a cuddlefish a thing 22:45:04 shachaf: yup 22:45:18 can i be a cuddlefish when i grow up 22:45:29 they don't live long enough to use their smart brains :/ 22:45:31 aren't you already one 22:45:47 i don't live long enough to use my smart brain either :( 22:46:01 kmc: you mean how they have brains that are bigger than their bodies, including their brains? 22:46:20 does anyone live long enough to use their smart brains 22:46:35 a paleontologist posted that video yesterday. it made me happy 22:46:42 On that note, does anyone know how to use pietcreator? 22:50:25 what 22:52:09 cuddlefish have three hearts 22:53:51 http://youtu.be/1bmrm_8Y9Bc 22:55:33 oh shit i'm confused tooo help 22:55:48 https://gist.github.com/Janiczek/7849921 22:55:51 how 22:58:59 heh. 23:00:13 if you start with the infinite radical set equal to zero you get the same value of x. 23:00:23 so i'm guessing the substitution is somehow invalid. 23:01:37 like if there's no value of x that makes the radical 1, or somethin 23:02:52 there is 23:02:58 for instance =1 23:03:51 nahhhhhh 23:06:04 wait, what are you talking about, if x equals one than the substitution gives the square root of two. 23:07:55 i'm full of shit 23:08:02 the sequence converges to phi 23:08:03 might wanna get that checked out 23:08:19 why would it converge to phi 23:08:58 as far as "How can you get 1 from nested square roots of 0? 23:08:58 There is nothing accumulating that would converge to a limit or something..." you're not taking a limit here 23:09:02 you can call the problem √(x+y) = y, in which case you end up with x = y² - y, and again y = 0 and y = 1 have the same value for x, so like whatever man. 23:09:25 yeah 23:09:26 and 23:09:34 that is a familiar quadratic 23:09:42 because if you replace x with y 23:09:59 the solution is phi (and the other negative one, eta or w/e) 23:10:06 no 23:10:07 what 23:10:09 sorry 23:10:12 replace with 1 23:10:14 :P 23:12:43 Phantom_Hoover: can't you make √x, √(x+√x), √(x+√(x+√x)) bla bla an actual series somehow 23:13:27 sure, but there's nothing saying the limit of that series will be the same as whatever you get by twiddling the infinite expression 23:14:01 makes sense. 23:16:03 hmm 23:16:54 I kind of want to enter one of the BBC's quiz shows for some reason 23:22:27 Taneb: which kind of quiz show? 23:22:38 the weakest link? 23:25:33 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:25:58 i almost learned why φ is good for integer hashing but didn't learn really :/ 23:25:58 http://brpreiss.com/books/opus4/html/page214.html 23:26:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:33:37 b_jonas, I was thinking more Only Connect 23:35:56 no 23:35:58 weakest link 23:36:00 do it Taneb 23:36:46 Dragons' Den 23:37:00 Phantom_Hoover, they aren't auditioning for Weakest Link! 23:37:04 do both 23:37:39 -!- conehead has joined. 23:39:27 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:40:06 Taneb, the apprentice! 23:41:01 Phantom_Hoover, no 23:41:11 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:41:36 Taneb, yes (ok no you're not enough of a twat to go on the apprentice) 23:41:59 (also they aren't auditioning for it at the moment) 23:42:12 the apprentice is the show where that one rich douche yells at you right 23:42:26 i wanna say tom cruise but that's not him 23:43:00 donald trump? 23:43:17 eah that one. 23:44:12 is there something which is like hackathons but instead of pretending to make something useful, you just see who can write the fastest HTTP server or w/e in 24 hours 23:45:08 i would not think tom cruise and donald trump were very confusable 23:45:39 admittedly i mainly just know what they look like. 23:46:09 Phantom_Hoover is thinking of alan sugar, presumably 23:47:45 just another face of the platonic rich douche in the heavens 23:54:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:57:36 Bike, it retains some entertainment value in that the people he's yelling at are deliberately selected to be wannabe rich douches who are completely unbearable, but it still wears thin fast. 23:58:35 that just sounds really sad. 23:58:39 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 2013-12-08: 00:01:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:10:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:26:31 i have a hunch our wiki's rectwrap class is no longer working for IE11 :( 00:27:44 (by which i mean, i tried to fix lucasieks' edit to use it, it didn't look good, which made me look at the other places i knew it was used, and it no longer looked good there either.) 00:28:20 which isn't really surprising since it depends on IE having a parser difference. 00:29:43 oerjan: WHAT DID THEY DO 00:29:54 quintopia: who 00:29:57 WE NEED BETTER RESETS 00:30:01 oerjan: MS 00:30:19 i have a friend who does the product testing on IE 00:30:31 LET'S GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS 00:30:49 * kmc watches Mr. van Doom's talk about esolangs 00:30:55 :O 00:31:15 quintopia: i may be guessing that they fixed the parsing to be compliant with everyone else, _without_ fixing the thing that makes the usual style setting for making every other browser wrap things rectangularly break on IE 00:31:46 and the parser hack is necessary because the thing that makes it work for IE, makes firefox break instead. 00:32:32 quintopia: btw this is our hack .rectwrap { word-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; white-space: pre\9 } 00:32:33 Taneb: can you relink that i'll watch it too 00:32:58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7FGKQu70TU 00:33:14 the \9 makes either IE ignore that option or everyone else, i don't quite remember. 00:33:27 (or did in IE <= 9) 00:34:22 $ screen -r 00:34:22 Aborted 00:34:23 oerjan: can't we just make a bad-IE-specific css and "I've received an uncommon phrase; what's the context? fnord" 21:31:41 boily: untrue! befunge is totes highlightable with the right UI 21:33:33 mrhmouse: There's one sort of trivial thing that I think I've seen done in a chatbot, which is to select a single "keyword" from the input (based on TF-IDF weights on words or whatnot), do a search over some database like WordNet for related terms (both synonyms and antonyms), pick a random one, and then generate from n-grams both forwards and backwards so that the keyphrase is in an ... 21:33:39 ... unpredictable spot of the response. 21:34:00 (Also add hyponyms and hypernyms and whatevernyms to that list.) 21:34:20 ~duck hyponym 21:34:20 In linguistics, a hyponym is a word or phrase whose semantic field is included within that of another word, its hypernym (sometimes spelled hyperonym outside of the natural language processing community). 21:34:47 fizzie: that's a good idea :) currently roskat picks a word from the input (preferring uncommon words, based on message history) and starts with a random trigram whose predecessor includes that word 21:36:12 it helps, but it's far from acceptable as a form of "chatter". I intend to have the next version examine preceding messages & their sources for prompt/response patterns 21:36:13 That's really kind of similar, except without the WordNet step. 21:38:39 I need to diagram the whole thing first to see what sort of data I'll have to store regarding messages - then I can decide on other details 21:39:20 There's also quite a lot of work for natural language parsing; when you've got parse trees (or other such things), you can do things in terms of them. But those are kind of brittle, and might have trouble with informal chat-text. (Also it's an easy way to end up in a very Elizaey responses.) 21:39:37 for this bot, I don't particularly care about the semantic value of the messages 21:40:08 but I did have an idea to have another bot which understood e.g. Gellish English and could create relationships between terms 21:40:17 ~duck gellish 21:40:17 Gellish is a formal language that is natural language independent, although its concepts have 'names' and definitions in various natural languages. 21:40:24 ~duck gellish english 21:40:24 Gellish Formal English is the English variant of Gellish and is a formal language, which means that it is a structured and formalized subset of natural English that is computer interpretable. 21:41:01 Back on the statistical side of the fence, you can probably also boost the probability of "relevant" responses with some kind of a scheme based on clustering of "topic" words. 21:41:38 fizzie: uncommon words that appear in the chatter at around the same times? 21:42:14 freebie uncommon word → paramycète. 21:42:24 ~duck paramycète 21:42:25 --- No relevant information 21:43:11 -!- mrclarinet has joined. 21:43:36 Something like that, yes. Or just models trained on text with a specific topic, though if your source materials are irclogs, that's harder. (Unless you want to pay some Amazon Mechanical Turk people to label a gigabyte of logs with "current topic" annotations.) 21:44:06 (I'm sure they'd do a splendid job on annotating #esoteric logs.) 21:44:14 -!- mrclarinet has left. 21:45:47 IRC chatter is hard enough to parse :) I think the biggest amount of parsing I'll do will be name extraction and directed responses/prompts (e.g. "mrhmouse: hello" is a directed prompt) 21:46:18 what about the chimæric helloes? 21:46:39 boily: I can't parse those, so they'll remain in the chatter history as uncommon words 21:47:27 fungot: You can parse those sillyhelloes, right? 21:47:28 fizzie: later tell drewr may be slime wants you to do 21:47:58 the best thing about those, though, is that they're usually clumped together. so prompting the bot with, say, "belloily", might result in "mrhmellouse" 21:48:32 `ello fungot 21:48:33 mrhmouse: it's a classic, i mostly wanted to take out fixnums and to put it later on?' what relevance does it have cons? 21:48:35 fungellot 21:48:46 Sir Fungellot. 21:48:54 (Fungels a lot.) 21:49:25 `run echo 'Sir Fungellot cannot be stopped by that sword alone!' >wisdom/fungot 21:49:25 boily: or is my code 21:49:29 No output. 21:50:09 ` run cat ./wisdon/fungot 21:50:09 LinearInterpol: from reading the wikipedia entry for er, parachuting.)" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 4408 21:50:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 21:50:39 LinearInterpol: try `? 21:50:39 Regarding the related-word thing, you can also do LSI instead of a WordNet-style a-priori-knowledge database. 21:50:44 `? 21:50:45 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:50:49 `? fungot 21:50:50 mrhmouse: when you get to function calls, 21:50:50 LOL. 21:50:51 Sir Fungellot cannot be stopped by that sword alone! 21:50:57 `? 21:50:59 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:51:08 LinearInterpol: you have to provide a phrase 21:51:08 `? boily 21:51:10 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser, and a Man Eating Chicken. 21:51:13 oh. 21:51:33 fizzie: LSI? I'm not familiar with the acronym.. 21:51:47 ~duck LSI 21:51:47 lsi definition: large-scale integrated circuit; large-scale integration. 21:51:56 mrhmouse: Latent Semantic Indexing, it's p. fancy. 21:52:28 fizzie: do you mean for the Gellish English bot? I intend for it to be fully spoon-fed :) 21:52:51 No, just for something statistical based on irclogs. 21:52:54 -!- muskrat has joined. 21:53:17 e.g. if it knows what a cat is (but not a dog), and it sees the word "dog" in a noun position, it would prompt the user to describe a dog 21:53:46 after that point, it now has some knowledge of what a dog is (based on the description and all recognized words in the description) 21:55:21 you might describe it as "an animal which chases cats". now it knows that a dog is an animal, and has the property that it chases cats (also an animal) 21:56:55 Very Cyc-ic. 21:57:04 (How's that thing doing, anyway?) 21:57:59 Cyc is still going? 21:58:11 ~duck cyc 21:58:11 It is not based on numerical methods such as statistical probabilities, nor is it based on neural networks or fuzzy logic. 21:58:17 "Stable release .. 17 months ago" well 21:58:46 metasepia: That's a good summary as far as it goes, but you could consider also saying something about what it *is* based on. 21:59:03 'tis a knowledge database using connectives! 21:59:34 effectively a highly.. sophisticated prolog. 21:59:47 "Cyc-based solutions have helped government agencies and Global 100 commercial enterprises leverage their knowledge and expertise over a wide range of business verticals and across the full operational spectrum." 22:00:01 Leverage over a wide range of business verticals. 22:00:07 Across the full operational spectrum. 22:00:15 I see they've managed to leverage some marketing people, at least. 22:00:28 marketing superlatives. 22:00:52 a friend of mine from MIT published a book like this. in fact... 22:00:57 http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/mike-wolf/bitkit/paperback/product-233305.html 22:23:30 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Oh fnordy fnordy). 22:31:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:33:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:54:29 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:01:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNHUMONGOUS DECHICKEN). 23:01:22 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:03:32 shachaf: good /part 23:10:11 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:14:44 nooodl_: I don't understand 23:14:59 (from #haskell) 23:16:59 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:21:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:24:57 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 23:26:11 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 23:26:13 XCOM has a slight Z-order problem for a fraction of a second whenever switching soldiers. http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/452907883059778581/E033A703267A6B165B926905057AFF60C2896574/ 23:26:23 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:28:56 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 23:34:23 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 23:41:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:43:00 * quintopia moves the smorgases from the bord to the stomach 23:43:50 how are you LinearInterpol 23:45:10 This is the perfect way to release a Linux distro and get maximum community participation. http://repo.steamstatic.com/download/ 23:45:17 back. 23:45:22 quintopia: prettyyy good. 23:45:41 LinearInterpol: do you like swedish food 23:45:54 sure. 23:46:28 mmm whipped marshmallow cream with a hard chocolate shell 23:46:41 this probably has a name 23:46:44 stop making me jealous. 23:48:47 what you don't have an ikea near you 23:48:54 -!- RJones has joined. 23:48:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:49:21 helloerjan 23:49:31 helioerjan 23:50:32 hellopiaf 23:51:25 tonight is swedish buffet night 23:51:33 the only food i'm eating all day 23:51:55 it's also s. lucia day 23:52:10 or was, an hour ago 23:53:23 a most peculiar scandinavian holiday based on taking an italian song about a harbor named s. lucia and pretending it's about the actual saint 23:53:43 and then singing that in processions of children. 23:53:52 st. lucia is a p cool island from what i've heard 23:57:47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Lucia also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgo_Santa_Lucia i think i'm going to add a [citation needed] to the latter. 2013-12-14: 00:00:21 -!- ^v has joined. 00:00:34 or maybe i should ask an actual swede. 00:00:50 olsner: why you so idle 00:01:05 FireFly: awake? 00:01:15 oerjan, why did I read "ask" as "smoke"? 00:01:35 * quintopia smokes an actual Taneb 00:01:39 Taneb: maybe you like smoking turnips, i dunno 00:01:40 :O 00:01:48 How do you smoke a Taneb? 00:01:52 That sounds painful 00:01:59 Vorpal: why so _hideously_ idle 00:02:01 ThatOtherPerson, only for me 00:02:06 ThatOtherPerson: by driving faster 00:02:07 Ah, right 00:02:13 Anyway, goodnight 00:02:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:02:55 i think i may be out of actual swedes. but in case not, is "Today, among other things, that song is considered somewhat the unofficial hymn of Sweden" about luciasången as preposterous as it sounds? 00:03:19 i could imagine it being true with s/the/an/ 00:04:12 but then the aussies have "waltzing mathilda", so what do i know 00:05:48 * oerjan just edited it instead. 00:06:46 what's wrong with waltzing matilda? 00:07:36 it's just not in the usual style for a national anthem hth 00:08:11 ok 00:10:16 https://www.google.no/search?q=luciat%C3%A5g&biw=1176&bih=613&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=q6GrUuy7OYS47QaX2oAw&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQsAQ hth 00:15:53 what's the clever trick for getting orecchiete not to stack? 00:16:25 I thought stirring a lot while they cooked would do it but it doesn't. Do I need to separate the noodles individually by hand before adding to water? 00:18:11 http://food52.com/hotline/16710-keep-orecchiette-from-sticking-together does this help? 00:20:01 "Today's bug: If a prisoner happens to be on the toilet when his time in jail finishes, he will remain trapped on the toilet forever" game bug logs are great 00:21:36 No, I added them to water that was boiling hard, and I stirred frequently. The problem is that they are already stacked in the bag and the hot water makes them stick that way faster than stirring can break them up. 00:21:54 I think the solution is "buy shell noodles instead because they're just better." 00:25:06 shells are wonderful 00:25:20 I think shells and rigatoni are my favorite 00:26:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:29:48 Shells cost more per pound at Safeway, though, and TJ's never seems to have them 00:32:11 -!- RJones has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:35:06 douglass_: wouldn't it be a good idea to unstack them _before_ dropping them in the water, then. 00:35:34 unless they're frozen or something. 00:35:54 oh you mentioned that option. 00:35:58 -!- tromp has joined. 00:36:33 are we talking killy shells here or what 00:37:00 Phantom_Hoover: term unknown, please rephrase 00:37:11 kill-y 00:37:28 pasta shells hth 00:37:35 o 00:37:37 h 00:37:40 who the fuck freezes pasta 00:37:59 trader joe's has a lot of frozen pasta dishes that are kinda nice 00:38:14 possibly nobody, it was just the main reason i could think of for why you couldn't separate them before boiling 00:42:14 I consider the option of unstacking them individually by hand, rather than stirring them all at once, to take an unreasonable amount of time. 00:44:25 i'm imagining shaking them into a dry bowl and separating them by "stirring" there. might even work. 00:45:06 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:45:20 does it help if you pour them in, like, before the water is boiling? 00:46:11 also, does the package have any tips. 00:46:38 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 00:48:01 Hey, can someone help me understand Lazy K? <-- did you get any answer? 00:48:29 @quote lazy.lazy 00:48:29 ShelSilverstein says: Lazy Lazy Lazy Lazy Lazy Lazy Jane. She wants a drink of water so she waits and waits and waits and waits and waits for it to rain. 00:48:35 `seen ThatOtherPerson 00:48:39 2013-12-14 00:02:07: Ah, right 00:48:52 whoa, whoa, whoa 00:48:59 last seen in the future 00:49:38 ok that's less than an hour ago 00:49:46 `date 00:49:46 -!- impomatic has left. 00:49:48 Sat Dec 14 00:49:47 UTC 2013 00:50:07 shachaf: it does the sane UTC thing 00:50:27 oerjan: Not yet 00:50:33 I talked to Taneb about it a little 00:50:43 oerjan: p. sure mountain view time is the only sane time 00:51:19 The thing that bugs me about the wiki page is it only seems to describe how it is different from Unlambda 00:51:23 ThatOtherPerson: right, real fast nora's hair salon III: shear disaster download is isomorphic to lazy k 00:51:40 oerjan: I will try that with the remaining package. There are no tips on the label. 00:52:19 Yeah, I've been looking into Nora, and I thought perhaps it would be easier to learn by learning about Lazy K 00:52:26 ThatOtherPerson: well lazy k is ski calculus, which is like a subset of unlambda, except that it's also lazy in evaluation order. 00:52:28 But... my brain is being stretched 00:52:42 real fast nora 00:52:54 in a sense, the lazy version is the more mathematically pure one. 00:53:08 Yeah, that's about the only part I understand ;D 00:53:09 yeah lazy k wasn't really very rigidly-conceived 00:53:48 i think gould just thought of the language itself as something very obvious and so he only bothers describing the syntax and showing off lazier 00:54:19 the same abstraction elimination process for converting lambda calculus works for both. of course with lazy k you then get _lazy_ lambda calculus. 00:54:57 it _is_ obvious i think. 00:55:07 if you know haskell and lambda calculus :P 00:56:27 of course as someone who has written unlambda, i'm biased. 00:56:40 I understand the general principles, but I don't really know how to program in it yet 00:56:56 do you know how to program unlambda 00:56:57 oerjan: Would you recommend starting in Unlambda first? 00:57:13 not really sure 00:57:23 no, I don't know unlambda yet 00:58:00 what you need is a good understanding of how to do things in lambda calculus, and then how to abstraction eliminate. 00:58:06 -!- _46bit_ has changed nick to _46bit. 00:58:09 -!- _46bit has quit (Changing host). 00:58:10 -!- _46bit has joined. 00:58:34 oerjan: hm, I have a fairly... basic idea of how to do things in Haskell 00:58:40 ThatOtherPerson: you might look at madore's unlambda page, it has many tips for how to program in that, which should at least approximately apply to lazy k. 00:58:48 which obviously translates into a typed lambda calculus 00:59:04 i learnt the lambda calculus perfectly well from the wp article 00:59:06 presumably the point is more about evaluation order than types 00:59:10 just sayin' 00:59:10 Okay, thanks! 01:00:01 ThatOtherPerson: also one thing about laziness is that it's the order of evaluation that is guaranteed to work if _any_ does, so if you write a program that works _strictly_, it will automatically work lazily. although possibly with a space leak :P 01:05:58 ThatOtherPerson: you're definitely going to need to understand how to use higher order functions. 01:06:17 oerjan: Luckily I understand those quite well 01:06:53 good 01:07:36 and then you want to understand how to make data structures with them, e.g. simulating haskell's ADTs 01:08:08 Ah, that sounds interesting 01:08:19 and the matter of flow control, in particular how to do recursion with the self-application trick. 01:08:56 adts you could just do as a tagged union where the union element is a tuple right 01:09:31 Bike: that's not the simplest way 01:09:40 what's the simplest way. 01:09:54 let's say to implement data Bool = False | True 01:10:12 oh, you do that 01:10:41 you implement an element of Bool as a function with _two_ arguments, one to use if it's False, one to use if it's True. 01:10:48 so instead of a tag you just have it only called by case functions 01:10:50 right 01:11:13 and have it pass the data if it exists to that function? 01:11:18 yes 01:11:23 right makes sense 01:11:32 silly me, thinking of data as data 01:12:01 Functions are data! 01:12:10 the future is the past 01:12:22 All bikes are one 01:12:26 False = \x y -> y, True = \x y -> x, and then if b then x else y becomes just b x y 01:12:49 (i sort of switched the order of False and True there to make the if the right order) 01:13:24 now if you instead have data Either a b = Left a | Right b 01:13:57 then Left x = \l r -> l x and Right y = \l r -> r y 01:14:35 and you add more arguments for constructors that have more arguments. 01:15:02 wow, that's pretty cool 01:15:04 a tuple has just one constructor, so (x,y,z) = \f -> f x y z 01:15:28 and that's basically all you need to implement ADTs as functions. 01:19:12 to understand lazy K's IO format, you need (x,y) pairs + one more thing called church numerals. 01:20:25 a church numeral is a natural number encoded as a function applying another function that number of times. i.e. 1 = \f x -> f x, 2 = \f x -> f (f x), 3 = \f x -> f (f (f x)) etc. 01:21:58 imo consider scott encoding rather than church encoding 01:22:17 shachaf: i never remember the difference. 01:22:50 also i only mentioned church for the numerals, which are definitely what lazy k uses. 01:23:47 some but not all arithmetic is fairly easy with church numerals. 01:23:54 (subtraction is a pain.) 01:25:01 just like tail is a pain with church lists 01:25:33 > foldr (\x y -> (ord x,var$show y)) $ "Hello, world!" ++ repeat '\256' 01:25:34 Couldn't match expected type `(GHC.Types.Int, 01:25:35 Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr)' 01:25:35 with actual type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 01:25:45 hm something not quite right. 01:25:54 > foldr (\x y -> (ord x,var$show y)) undefined $ "Hello, world!" ++ repeat '\256' 01:25:55 (72,(101,(108,(108,(111,(44,(32,(119,(111,(114,(108,(100,(33,(256,(256,(256,... 01:26:21 ThatOtherPerson: that's like the first step for encoding "Hello, world!" into lazy k format. 01:27:16 it doesn't bother to use a proper list with a nil format, just inserts infinitely many 256 after the end. 01:28:07 Cool, thanks! 01:28:33 you're welcome! 01:29:05 (you'll find that particular encoding in my real fast nora implementation too.) 01:29:36 well, approximately, anyway. 01:36:37 imho EOF should just be \Omega 01:39:18 i suppose that could work 01:40:00 although mainly because you can write something that ignores the difference between number >= 256 01:40:08 *+s 01:50:19 wait how could that work 01:50:36 you can't do anything with omega, that was the joke 01:50:42 what's \Omega 01:50:49 infinity? 01:51:04 no, it's (lambda x.x x)(lambda x.x x) 01:51:23 oh 01:51:24 boring 01:56:25 oh that omega 01:56:56 i sort of interpreted it as \f x -> fix f 01:57:08 ie infinity 01:57:31 right 01:58:17 imo (exists x. (x, x -> Maybe x)) 02:03:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:03:39 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:04:07 @tell boily good unpentadactyl morning! <-- my condolences on losing a finger 02:04:07 Consider it noted. 02:11:27 @tell mrhmouse (Control.Arrow.>>>) 02:11:27 Consider it noted. 02:12:30 :t (Control.Category.>>>) 02:12:31 Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c 02:12:55 oh right it got moved and generalized 02:13:06 :t foldr (\x y -> (ord x,var$show y)) undefined $ "Hello, world!" ++ repeat '\256' 02:13:07 (Int, Expr) 02:13:15 ohhhhhhhh trickysauce 02:13:26 i was like "how did you construct an infinite recursive tuple type???" 02:13:26 * oerjan whistles innocently 02:13:39 infinite types are too good 02:13:53 too easy 02:14:08 catab catbc catac 02:14:15 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 02:14:18 > var "a very reasonable name for a variable, don't you think" 02:14:19 a very reasonable name for a variable, don't you think 02:14:20 a cat, a cab, a bat, bacat! 02:14:48 > text "a very reasonable text, don't you think" 02:14:49 a very reasonable text, don't you think 02:17:15 > text "An excellent text." 02:17:16 An excellent text. 02:18:05 > fix (var . text) 02:18:06 Couldn't match type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 02:18:06 with `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr' 02:18:06 Expected type: Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr -> GHC.Base.String 02:18:06 Actual type: GHC.Base.String -> Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ.Doc 02:18:56 on second thought, that shouldn't work in any shape or form. 02:22:27 @tell I had a dream that I has a secret esoteric lair <-- good, good, we may make an evil overlord of you yet 02:22:27 Consider it noted. 02:32:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:28 @ask boily normally distributed glazed eyes served over bouchées of surreal bread rolls. <-- are you attempting to create québécois/r'lyehan fusion cuisine 02:33:28 Consider it noted. 02:39:14 is r'lyehan a klingon word 02:42:36 thank you for thinking that as well. 02:43:00 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:44:18 oh its a lovecraftian place 02:44:28 r'lyeh i remember now 02:44:44 the language is like, aklo, or some shit like that. 03:32:33 -!- carado_ has joined. 03:35:00 -!- carado_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:35:11 -!- carado_ has joined. 03:36:07 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:37:21 -!- carado_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:37:30 -!- carado has joined. 03:44:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:45:27 I remember being so confused about over... why didn't anyone tell me that it was modify? (Or, maybe I'm thinking of a different over?) 03:48:12 oh just get over it 04:04:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:13:11 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:14:26 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:16:22 -!- qlkzy has joined. 04:20:25 -!- fizzie has joined. 04:27:44 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:38:33 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:22:29 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:23:04 -!- tromp has joined. 05:27:31 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:30:24 -!- aloril has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:38:15 -!- aloril has joined. 06:25:25 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:28:14 aw man, google bought boston dynamics. 06:28:38 all their robots are gonna be all corporate and soulless now 06:28:49 i for one etc. 06:29:15 "Executives at the Internet giant are circumspect about what exactly they plan to do with their robot collection." 06:30:00 oh, they said they don't want to move into military contracting, at least. i guess 06:31:01 military /contracting/ 06:31:14 ? 06:32:28 leaving open the possibility of developing military robots for their own use 06:32:58 oh. heh. yeah. 06:33:20 i should research the legality of spider death robots 06:44:33 Legality irrelevant. It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission 06:45:04 it's also easier to ask things if you haven't been shot 06:45:12 New Amiga 68k port of Doom http://youtu.be/JpjVxuJBWak 07:07:08 -!- CADD has joined. 07:07:31 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest6653. 07:12:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:54:38 -!- SBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:03:03 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:05:16 -!- Guest6653 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:17:56 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 08:53:28 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:53:47 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:46:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:57:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:29:17 "Runtime Error (at 139:148): Access violation at address 7D2DA677 in module 'gdiplus.dll'. Read of address 00212C84." arrrr this wine be broken. 10:35:19 All 'w' and 'm' characters are also very broken-looking. (Other characters are fine.) 10:35:39 Fun 10:43:15 -!- CADD has joined. 10:54:23 "Internal error: Expression error 'Runtime Error (at 16:21): Invalid floating point operation.'" 10:54:28 It just keeps getting better. 11:00:27 -!- carado has joined. 11:13:38 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:14:36 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 11:14:36 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:49:52 -!- carado_ has joined. 11:52:30 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:57:17 -!- carado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:57:27 -!- carado has joined. 12:49:09 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:25:35 -!- qlkzy has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 13:26:10 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:26:16 -!- qlkzy has joined. 13:26:29 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:32:21 ehttps://bitbucket.org/FeministSoftwareFoundation/c-plus-equality 13:32:51 https://bitbucket.org/FeministSoftwareFoundation/c-plus-equality 13:34:46 dafuq? 13:35:17 "1 is inherently phallic and thus misogynistic." 13:35:17 someone should write a compiler 13:35:19 It is true! 13:35:29 Do eet! 13:38:03 "Variables self-declaring as pointers are known as "otherkin". A pointer to an array is an "arraykin"." 13:38:05 :D 13:38:15 Instead of "running" a program, which implies thin privilege and pressure to "work out", programs are "given birth". 13:38:19 hahahaha 13:39:13 I do wonder if you could actually make a language out of it 13:39:20 Or if it is too contradictory 13:39:58 - header files are known as headHer files, with extension .Xir 13:40:53 Slereah: interesting, fizzbuzz states that 1 should be success 13:41:08 Clearly that is misogynistic 13:42:00 lmao 13:42:18 "Curly brackets are not allowed, as they perpetuate our society's stereotype of the 'curly' women. Instead, Python-esque indentation is used." 13:42:27 - assignment constrains its lefthand side to an externally imposed presentation and orientation; replaced by accepts(), and lefthand side is free to refuse (NO MEANS NO!) 13:43:21 There are no bugs, only snowflakes. 13:43:56 "% now known as the 'cock and balls operator'" 13:45:08 I prefer intercal's rabbit operator 13:45:43 which is? 13:46:07 maybe we should make an entry in the esolang wiki 13:46:32 It is the simultaneous use of . and " 13:46:55 Apparently back in punchcard days you could punch two characters as one input 13:50:09 I'm pretty sure you couldn't with a punch-card? 13:50:29 but a line printer could backspace and print a second character on top of an already-printed one 13:51:07 I dunno 13:51:19 I only vaguely remember what the justification of the rabbit was 13:52:22 Also fun fact, the reason the APL charset is as weird as it is, is mainly because most of the characters were composed in a similar manner by typing one character over another one 13:53:07 So vertical bar and delta gives you ⍋, e.g. 13:53:29 Did they even have keyboards back in APL days? 13:53:50 Character sets don't matter much if you program on punchcards I suppose 13:54:34 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:54:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:55:37 They did; here's what the IBM 2741 looked like apparently: http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/IBM_2741_printing_terminal_APL_keyboard.jpg 13:57:23 I love the left margin indicator in the middle of the page ... 14:02:33 Oh, by "line printer" I think I meant "teletype" 14:18:29 -!- yorick has joined. 14:20:40 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:31:25 Does english require to use 'a' in enumerations? 14:31:26 like uhm 14:31:31 a dog, a cat, a hound, a house 14:31:41 I have a dog, cat, hound and a house? 14:31:49 or I have a dog, a cat, a hound and a house? 14:36:49 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:43:12 I'd like a GTK-Callgirl, too, hunspell 14:44:17 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortticat. 14:44:44 -!- nortticat has changed nick to nortti. 14:56:36 "i have a dog, cat, hound, and house" sounds acceptable to me 15:00:04 -!- muskrat has joined. 15:00:55 with the a's it definitely works though 15:01:39 -!- tromp has joined. 15:02:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:08:03 -!- prooftechnique has quit. 15:11:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:19:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:45:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:50:16 Wine went from error messages to "sound stutters, whole computer hangs up, reboots after ten seconds or so"; I think I'll give up on it. 15:50:47 Reboots? That's really weird 15:55:04 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 15:56:08 Perhaps something has configured a software watchdog feature on. 15:56:52 Though /sys/class/watchdog is empty. 15:57:37 Linux has software watchdogs that let you reboot the system? 15:57:42 Yes. 15:57:48 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Linux_Kernel/Softdog_Driver 15:58:11 But I doubt it's enabled by default much anywhere. 15:59:40 Nothing much in the logs at the time of the reboot, except for a "kernel: [16305.769629] NVRM: Xid (0000:01:00): 61, 0092(1e64) 00000000 00000000" line. But that's a bit earlier, I think, and anyway quite frequent occurrence. (I'll blame the nvidia binary blob anyway, it's an easy target.) 16:00:48 -!- tromp has quit. 16:02:50 if there's a global freeze a software watchdog is useless anyway 16:03:03 SteamOS comes with a LD_PRELOAD hack that prevents programs from changing the screen resolution, and with a compositor that scales fullscreen windows with a smaller size to the screen resolution. The LD_PRELOAD thing may be a bit of a kluge (and perhaps they’ll change that), but i approve. 16:03:39 mroman: It's kind of a best-effort thing. 16:05:31 24 out of 75 items in my Steam library have Linux versions, which is quite a percentage, if still a bit disappointing. 16:06:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:07:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:07:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:20:59 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:31:07 -!- tromp has joined. 16:41:21 -!- conehead has joined. 16:44:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:46:16 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:53:07 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:56:51 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:57:23 -!- tromp has joined. 17:01:27 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:55 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:02:03 -!- muskrat has joined. 17:09:12 -!- tromp has joined. 17:15:33 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:19:15 ion: That's pretty interesting 17:19:27 I wonder what the performance of that is 17:21:45 It's common to use "we" in english papers apparentely? 17:22:04 like "we invented some new method" and "we investigate stuff" 17:22:05 the hell, since when. 17:22:18 "we propose a new method ...." 17:22:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:23:38 LinearInterpol: So, it's not common? 17:24:02 given no context it's not common. 17:24:11 if you're representing some form of group maybe it's common. 17:24:14 but written by one person? 17:24:15 -!- muskrat has left ("Leaving"). 17:24:19 doubt it. 17:24:37 for example if I cannot deduce who "we" is by just taking into account the context of the sentence.. 17:24:42 it could be anybody. 17:25:11 now if you explicitly specify your context then yes, "we" is acceptable. 17:25:16 http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/200169/now-vldb.pdf <- that has "we" 17:25:42 alright, that makes sense. 17:25:44 http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/200047/cloudEdge.pdf <- also uses we 17:25:51 because you're representing more than one person and I know that. 17:26:14 it's why they made that apparent at the top of the document. 17:26:19 Otherwise you'd use "I"? 17:26:30 yes. 17:26:37 if you must use "I", do it over "we". 17:26:52 because "I" 'points' to the obvious context of the writer unless specified. 17:27:11 I'm asking because in german papers you better not use either "we" or "I" at all 17:27:25 's why I said "if you must use". 17:27:33 usually self reference like that is not acceptable. 17:27:40 in any context. 17:27:49 You'd use passive voice nearly everywhere 17:27:52 yes 17:27:59 "A new method was developed" and stuff like that 17:28:01 because you don't want to attach some sort of centered bias. 17:28:07 to the paper and its content. 17:28:12 but I've heard that passive voice is very uncommon in english anyway 17:28:28 passive voice is common in english speakers with no knowledge on how they use their words. 17:28:28 and some random papers I googled used "we" all over the place 17:28:44 *is not common in english speakers 17:28:54 I have to translate my german abstract to english 17:29:04 that's gonna be hell. 17:29:08 And I'm wondering whether I should use we or just stick to passive voice 17:29:25 are you representing a group, and are talking about something that relates to your situation/accomplishments? 17:29:41 if so, use "we". 17:29:42 We're two guys 17:29:44 so 17:29:46 plural :) 17:29:48 use we. 17:29:54 but only if that second part applies. 17:30:02 ergo you've done something and are talking about it. 17:30:06 Yes. 17:30:11 We have done something. 17:30:12 :) 17:30:15 yeah, "we" is acceptable in this case. hehe. 17:30:30 We designed a RISC CPU essentially 17:30:45 nice! first time? 17:31:08 Yeah. 17:31:14 architecture design is fun as hell. 17:31:26 I remember building my first when I was like 14. 17:31:38 really small 8-bit RISC. 17:32:11 designed to mirror some of the qualities of a certain famous MOS Tech. microprocessor. 17:32:12 i wonder how big an OISC CPU would be 17:32:21 Slereah: very small. 17:32:23 very. small. 17:32:36 I guess maybe a dozen gates or so? 17:32:37 the die itself would probably take up a fraction of the space of most modern dies. 17:32:53 well, it'd certainly be less than modern architectures.. 17:33:04 because you essentially are designing a control unit and ALU around one instruction. 17:33:21 Yeah. But it's nothing serious 17:33:35 it's like building a castle in a sandbox 17:33:35 hey. 17:33:51 everything in this field is serious. 17:34:05 It's common in single-author papers in our field, at least. 17:34:15 Or so I believe, anyway. 17:34:25 you built a RISC architecture. you can now say you have the capability of designing processor architectures now. 17:34:36 that's a pretty big accomplishment. 17:34:47 I meant what *we* did was nothing serious 17:34:52 yes it was. 17:34:54 :) 17:35:13 It's called [[ The author's "we" ]] in Wikipedia's "Atypical uses of /we/" list. 17:35:13 What'd you use to simulate it/prototype it? Verilog? 17:35:37 -!- CADD has joined. 17:35:41 The best papers are HEP papers 17:35:50 When there's a thousand authors per paper 17:35:54 fizzie: yeah, that's if you're taking your reader into the context with you. 17:36:39 I'm pretty sure I've seen also uses that plainly don't include the reader. 17:37:13 haven't seen that in any research papers I've read. 17:38:10 If I hadn't had the capability of designig processor architectures I couldn't possibly have designed one 17:38:17 +already 17:38:34 yeah, but that's the point. 17:38:36 I guess our papers so rarely have a single author. 17:38:49 you said you could do something, and did it! 17:39:00 you leveled up! 17:39:02 :D 17:39:48 your next duty is to make a befunge processor. 17:40:04 you will recieve 10,000,000xp for this task. 17:40:40 "To mitigate this, we analyze the problem and present --" from abstract of Christensen, M.G. (only author), "Accurate Estimation of Low Fundamental Frequencies From Real-Valued Measurements", IEEE Transactions on Audio, Speech and Language Processing. 17:40:50 (First single-author paper I could find looking at its recent issues.) 17:40:51 How's that a level up? 17:40:58 I already knew what I was doing 17:41:18 yes, but saying you knew what you were doing and actually demonstrating it are two different things. 17:41:27 so you got an exp bonus. :P 17:41:48 fizzie: that's one of those cases where you bring your reader into the context with you. 17:42:10 The reader is certainly not presenting anything. 17:42:42 it's just like saying "We then can conclude from this observation yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah" 17:42:45 freefull: Probably not different at all. 17:43:15 LinearInterpol: Well, how about "we refer the interested reader to [20]" -- is the reader part of that too? 17:43:44 I suppose not. 17:43:58 that's a bad case of ambiguity: what does "we" really refer to then? 17:44:18 The author of the paper; I don't think it's very ambiguous at all. 17:44:31 that is extremely ambiguous. 17:44:46 because in use of the author's "we", you must refer to both the reader and the author. 17:45:27 so what does "we" refer to? if it refers to the author of the paper it should be "I" 17:45:34 because that's bloody singular, not plural. 17:45:57 I don't think you need to refer to the reader at all. 17:46:03 It's just a singular we. 17:46:05 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We#The_author.27s_.22we.22 17:46:06 LinearInterpol: Yeah, but it's not like I've learned much 17:46:14 I learnt that gtk callbacks are type unsafe as hell 17:46:20 but that's pretty much it 17:46:21 LinearInterpol: Note the word "often". 17:46:43 yet "we" cannot refer to a singular. 17:46:53 "we" is not a singular. "I" is a singular. 17:47:01 that's improper usage if that context is to be interpreted that way. 17:47:44 It can't be improper if it's the accepted practice. 17:47:47 perhaps the author is a member of some organization then. 17:48:09 fizzie: you're stepping onto a very slippery slope. 17:48:30 Well, they ~always are, so if you *want* to interpret them as speaking on behalf of their affiliated organization... 17:48:54 then the context makes sense. 17:49:35 "Some journals prefer using "we" rather than "I" as personal pronoun.[citation needed]" aw, I was hoping for a link. 17:49:45 lol 17:49:54 LinearInterpol: Also it's actually a whole computer platform we designed 17:49:59 including graphics card, keyboard controller etc. 17:50:46 What'd you use for an FPGA? 17:51:02 It's not a hardware spec 17:51:07 It's a spec of functionality 17:51:14 which we implemented in a software emulator 17:52:48 and we on the fly designed a programming language too 17:52:54 Ah, lovely. I wish you the best of luck porting it to Verilog. :P 17:52:59 and wrote a compiler that targets our architecture 17:53:07 LinearInterpol: I'll probably use VHDL 17:53:11 since I already know VHDL 17:53:14 eeeew, VHDL.. 17:53:16 if I ever port it 17:53:19 :P 17:53:34 I never liked VHDL for recreational things.. 17:54:19 It's really good in professional settings though. The verbosity makes it clear. 17:54:40 Unlike a certain programming language who's name starts with the letter J I will fail to recognize the existence of. 17:56:13 Why? 17:56:21 Have you ever been forced to use J? 17:56:30 Several times. 17:56:40 Nice. 17:56:46 Horrifying language, it is.. 17:56:55 Then you don't want to use Burlesque :) 17:56:55 mroman: I don't know if you'd really say J's name starts with J. 17:57:35 It's a great language though 17:57:46 ew. 17:57:47 i really enjoyed J 17:58:01 fizzie: sure. It ends in J, too, and there's a J in the middle. 17:58:05 not java. scre that 17:58:10 screw* 17:58:29 ^ 17:58:37 fuck java 17:58:38 mroman: do you have any public details i could look at on your processor? 17:58:38 int-e: Sure, but I'm not entirely certain it was the language that was being referred to, given the way it was put. 17:58:46 LinearInterpol: indeed 17:59:08 fizzie: I'm sure it was the one that starts with J and ends with ava. 17:59:18 LinearInterpol: although I did find the mind bending factor of J very interesting. I would not mind being payed to write it. 17:59:50 int-e: Right; it just seems that mroman interpreted it differently, is all. 18:01:02 -!- Chillectual has joined. 18:01:12 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:01:12 (I mean, Burlesque is really much more J-like than Java-like, at least as far as surface syntax is concerned.) 18:01:13 LinearInterpol: the coolest part i thought was that it was made by the same guy that invented APL. 18:01:15 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 18:01:28 LinearInterpol: wb 18:01:30 CADD: APL is awesome. 18:01:31 and thanks. 18:01:34 :D 18:01:40 sadly i have never played with it 18:01:50 I had the pleasure of playing with it one time. 18:02:07 did you have the special keyboard and all? 18:02:11 yep. 18:02:12 XD 18:02:17 it was freaky. 18:02:17 very cool 18:02:21 im sure, lol 18:03:13 yeah, the furthest ive gone so far with J is writing an 8-neighbor cellular automata with user settable rules 18:03:37 I have never played with J. 18:03:39 it was a fantastic feeling seeing that the entire algorithm was expressed in 3 rather short lines of code 18:03:52 Ain't it though? 18:03:58 the rest (of about 150 lines) was all gui stuff, lol 18:04:00 indeed 18:04:14 languages like that are lovely. 18:04:36 indeed, i wish more people would use them 18:05:02 although a lot of features have been ported over to other languages 18:05:23 -!- realz has joined. 18:05:24 -!- realz has quit (Changing host). 18:05:24 -!- realz has joined. 18:05:25 -!- qlkzy_ has joined. 18:05:30 which as you know, is the usual tale great lang. 18:05:34 langs* 18:05:36 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 18:05:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:44 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:45 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:47 -!- _46bit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:48 -!- drlemon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:49 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:49 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:49 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:50 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:53 mroman: aww, no info? 18:06:00 -!- yiyus has joined. 18:06:14 Oh damn. 18:06:18 That's a lot of people. 18:06:22 lol, that was interesting 18:06:24 -!- kmc has joined. 18:06:36 Well, I'm off to play Tribes: Ascend. 18:06:42 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to [li]|Gaming. 18:06:48 -!- myndzi has joined. 18:06:54 <[li]|Gaming> keep it classy. 18:06:54 -!- _46bit has joined. 18:07:01 [li]|Gaming: right back at you 18:07:01 CADD: what? 18:07:10 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 18:07:14 mroman: on your proccessor/computer system 18:07:27 anything open source? 18:07:34 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Changing host). 18:07:34 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 18:07:44 yeah 18:07:45 -!- _46bit has quit (Changing host). 18:07:45 -!- _46bit has joined. 18:07:51 http://bitbucket.org/mroman_/emulathor 18:07:59 mroman: thanks! 18:08:16 but again: It's not science or useful at all 18:08:21 *sciency 18:08:49 no worries 18:08:57 im just interested in absorbing as much as possible 18:11:38 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:15:14 and the compiler is an ugly mess 18:15:25 well... most of it is 18:17:11 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:17:14 People need to write emulators in Rust 18:17:55 or haskell 18:18:15 mroman: lol, most code is :D 18:18:18 Or Plain English 18:19:16 * CADD brain 'splodes. 18:19:29 too many ambiguities in english 18:19:53 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:19:55 [19:18:49] http://www.osmosian.com/ 18:19:55 [19:18:54] I HATE THEM SO MUCH 18:19:57 Aaaargh 18:20:33 Really Plain English is basically the real version of that feminist language 18:20:55 Slereah_: omg, i saw that shit.. 18:20:56 It is based on a Philosophy and it is awful 18:21:13 I still have the Plain English compiler 18:21:16 Even that is terrible 18:22:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:22:41 *downloads the manifesto* what is that font? are they expecting me to read this? 18:22:58 Yes, yes I am 18:23:06 You have an exam on that manifesto in one hour 18:23:08 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:23:10 well I won't. 18:23:12 Slereah_: https://en.wikipedia.com/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo is a perfect example 18:23:54 I like the had had had sentence 18:24:06 "We believe that the convoluted object-oriented approach — together with the byzantine "C" programming language and all of its derivatives — can be removed from common usage within the next ten years" 18:24:12 James while Johns had had had had had had 18:24:21 Slereah_: yes, with haskell :D 18:24:24 This manifesto was written in 2006 18:24:31 Only three years left guys! 18:24:35 You'd better pick up 18:24:35 Slereah_: wow, yeah. im reading through it right now 18:24:40 hehe 18:25:29 Also here is their sample program : http://pastebin.com/Ud8z8f7e 18:25:52 You think hunting down a semicolon was bullshit? 18:25:56 imagine debugging that code 18:26:32 So... 18:26:33 \or is not plain english 18:26:38 Slereah_: ugh, yeah i just downloaded the sample.zip.. this looks almost like LOLCODE 18:26:39 There's 'a counter' 18:26:42 and there's 'the counter' 18:26:59 The best part, by the way 18:26:59 And what 18:27:02 Is the self compiler 18:27:04 I have to allocate memory myself? 18:27:10 'Allocate memory for the work' 18:27:21 Because despite their loud vocalization about everything being in plain english 18:27:26 If I have to allocate memory myself I might as well stick to C 18:27:29 The self compiler is still full of assembly code 18:27:53 Slereah_: yeah, this look like a really bad case of the cult of the begginner. 18:28:10 interesting never the less 18:28:29 just not what i would ever want to use 18:28:52 Once in a while, I go back to this site 18:28:56 whenever I want to get mad 18:29:01 XD 18:29:22 "The works are some works." 18:29:32 Much more understandable than C! 18:29:37 Slereah_: yeah, i just saw that. what does that do? 18:29:44 Fuck if I know 18:29:46 If you want 18:29:49 lol 18:29:49 I have the manual somewhere 18:29:54 But beware 18:29:58 The manual is also terrible 18:30:02 and will make your blood boil 18:30:03 i downloaded the zip, but no. ive had enough, lol 18:30:39 actually, satisfy my morbid curiosity. ive got some time to waste 18:31:05 * CADD prepares for boiling blood. 18:31:22 Well there it is : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19940612/instructions.pdf 18:31:26 thanks! 18:32:23 "When you start me up, I will quickly take over your screen" 18:32:33 Much like a terrorist 18:32:43 Oh yeah, the GUI is full fucking screen 18:32:46 and is grey and terrible 18:33:02 im debating if i should pull out wine and see how bad it looks 18:33:44 -!- SBoyo has joined. 18:33:57 lol, this program is not powerfull enough to conquer xmonad. im glad it did not full screen on me 18:34:10 im pretty sure its not going to work though, lol 18:34:54 nope, just a black screen 18:35:01 The full pack is here : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19940612/cal-3037.rar 18:35:46 Really I don't think the language is that bad 18:36:00 If it was just some project to make like a language to teach children about computer programming 18:36:03 it would be fine 18:36:11 But they are so fucking proud of themselves 18:37:23 "I don't do nested IFs. Nested ifs are a sure sign of unclear thinking, and that is something that I will not countenance. If you think this cramps your style too much, read my code to see how it's done. Then think again." 18:37:54 "I don't do EQUATIONS. I do a little infix math, and I support "calculated fields", but almost all the code you write will be strictly procedural in nature. As the Osmosians always say, "The universe is an algorithm, not a formula." Words you should take to heart. Especially if you're a math-head." 18:38:03 To say it in plain english: bullshit. 18:38:35 I kinda want to hire them and tell them I want to get a math program 18:38:39 Like heavy math shit 18:38:49 10.000 x 10.000 matrix calculation type thing 18:38:58 Slereah_: i would have to disagree. iirc i read an article about a high school teacher switching to fp langs and his students understanding it much easier. 18:39:14 Well I didn't say it would be a good idea 18:39:19 but it would be an okay project 18:39:22 ohlol 18:39:22 Even if they fail 18:39:24 right 18:39:41 But the fact that they want to get rid of all other languages and think theirs is the one true language 18:39:46 its good to test the limits of what a programming language is, but dont bullshit the PLT community. 18:39:48 It is oh so terrible 18:39:51 indeed 18:39:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:40:25 Fortunately, this is the first time I've heard of them. I wish it will be the last. 18:41:19 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:41:36 About once a year I rediscover them and rant a bit 18:42:02 well please stop doing that then 18:42:11 -!- Sorella has joined. 18:42:17 Aw :( 18:42:47 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 18:42:48 -!- Sorella has joined. 18:43:03 Slereah_, are you mocking a stupid language 18:43:12 Yes, yes I am 18:43:13 imo that's the true spirit of #esoteric 18:43:28 May I use this moment to convince everybody to use Burlesque. kthxbye 18:43:37 Phantom_Hoover: lol 18:43:41 it's the most creepiest language around 18:43:58 http://mroman.ch/burlesque/rwb2.pdf <- awesome to parse log files in it 18:44:12 How is it creepy 18:44:47 It's got a creepy name 18:44:49 mroman: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burlesque <- This? 18:44:55 Burlesque isn't creepy! 18:45:08 mroman: oh, i see what you did there XD 18:45:45 You know what would be creepy? 18:45:48 And compact? 18:45:51 A Zalgo language 18:45:54 Zalgo? 18:45:57 mroman: yeah, ive actually already seen burlesque. i like it. but im also one of those weirdoes that likes factor. 18:46:07 http://eeemo.net/ 18:46:26 Tͮ̎̄̏͗͑͑̈͛͌̾̓ͤ̐ͭ͗҉͕͙̣̬͖̟̤̳͍͈̞͔̠̻͞ͅḩ̡̝̺̪͓̩̹̰̹̩̺̿́ͩ̊̑͋͢ͅṵ͍̳̗̜͖͖͕̭̻̰͛̾̑̿̕͡s̻̙̫͚̣͕̙͚ͥ̽ͫ͒ͥ͂̋̚͘͜l͛͗̃̊̊̓̈́ͯ̄҉҉҉̬͈̤͉̟̯̟͞y̎ͮ̊̌̂̽̏ͤ̾ͧ͂ͯͪ̾̌̚͘͘҉̘̣͍̜͖̠̳̜͙̝̼̥̲́ 18:47:55 my favorate is haveing just the "fuck up the middle" checkbox selected. just enough embelleshment to be interesting, but not unreadable 18:48:17 Slereah_: good job 18:48:21 you just messed up my terminal 18:48:25 :D 18:48:35 Fortunately mIRC doesn't allow such foolishness 18:48:41 Characters don't leave their lines! 18:48:52 With unicode and putty 18:49:01 irssi just doesnt render it properly.. i really should set up my fonts.. 18:49:18 you can pretty much do such trickery as injecting text so that I read it as if somebody else wrote it 18:49:20 Hm 18:49:23 Speaking of Unicode 18:49:29 maybe I should implement Arithmetica 18:49:41 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Slereah/Arithmetica 18:49:42 lol, as opposed to mathematica? 18:49:44 I kinda dropped it 18:49:48 nice 18:55:28 CADD: You saw it on esolangs.org? 18:55:33 Or are you golfing on golf.shinh.org? 18:56:05 so is it called Αριθµητικών or Arithmetica 18:56:24 Αριθµητικών 18:56:38 But I call it Arithmetica for the barbarians reading it 18:56:44 Those dirty romans! 18:56:50 "Arithmetikon" seems closer 18:56:53 -!- SBoyo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:57:20 Arithmetica is closer to latin phonology though 18:58:15 nooodl: Why is gs2 still not ready ;)? 18:58:28 i should work on that!! 18:58:38 mroman: yup, i saw it on esolangs. i havent golfed yet, but ill try burlesque if i ever do 19:00:29 Slereah_: The osmosian compiler is not available for download? 19:01:20 also I don't really get the point of programming in plain english 19:01:35 programming languages are supposed to be "formal" and "expressive" 19:01:59 mroman : The compiler used to be available, but they pulled it 19:02:02 But I still have it! 19:02:03 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19940612/cal-3037.rar 19:04:07 implementing this stuff is easy but i don't wanna document it :( 19:04:47 mroman: couldnt have said it better myself 19:05:16 Well if you want to know the reason why they did it 19:05:20 Read their "manifesto" 19:05:40 i like that you put the word in quotes 19:07:58 I don't want to sound alarmist but i believe that language was created by Hitler's ghost 19:08:04 i think it definitely does deserve being in quotes 19:08:06 lol 19:08:42 -!- cimaster has joined. 19:08:47 -!- cimaster has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 19:08:49 wouldnt it be funny if the individual frequented #esoteric? 19:09:15 It probably qualifies as an esoteric language 19:09:44 indeed 19:10:40 By the way 19:10:44 Their old site was much worse 19:11:30 https://web.archive.org/web/20131214191118/http://www.osmosian.com/page04.png 19:16:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:16:11 does it get any worse? 19:16:23 -!- atrapado has quit (Changing host). 19:16:23 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:16:43 huh, that's an interesting line to see out of context when you join a channel 19:16:53 :D 19:17:05 oh there have been quite a few 19:17:28 ais523: www.osmosian.com <- join the fun 19:18:40 We were talking about ol' Plain English 19:18:43 And this in particular : 19:18:44 https://web.archive.org/web/20131214191118/http://www.osmosian.com/page04.png 19:19:16 awesome 19:21:50 i dont get this guy's hardon for claude monet. 19:21:56 -!- begemott has joined. 19:22:07 -!- begemott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:22:40 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:23:04 -!- CADD has joined. 19:25:46 im guessing this guy sees himself as some programming ARTEEST 19:30:25 -!- heroux_ has joined. 19:31:09 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdZR3deNdI 19:31:58 -!- nycs has joined. 19:32:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:32:23 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:32:27 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 19:33:52 Why does feathercoin exist? Except to give ais523 nightmares 19:34:06 Sgeo: I don't have an objection to the word "feather" 19:35:38 lol, well the block chain has been found to be fundamentally broken recently 19:35:59 peercoin actually sounds sensible 19:36:02 CADD, ooh, do tell 19:36:48 laymans article about the topic by one of the guys that wrote the paper with a link to the paper in the article --> http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/04/bitcoin-is-broken/ 19:40:12 err 19:40:13 "under the best of circumstances, at least 2/3rds of the participating nodes have to be honest to protect against our attack. But achieving this 2/3 bound is going to be difficult in practice. We outline a practical fix to the protocol that is easy to deploy and will guard against the attack as long as 3/4ths of the miners are honest. - See more at: http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/04/bitcoin-is-broken/#sthash.cF1z946n.dpuf" 19:40:31 Am I losing my mind, or is 3/4 > 2/3? 19:40:39 Oh, I'm misreading it 19:41:04 -!- muskrat has joined. 19:41:24 Sgeo: yeah, that confused me for a second too 19:42:36 x-1/x probably has lim->inf = 1 19:43:28 mroman: agreed 19:44:25 the derivation of both is 1 19:44:37 yep. 19:46:40 "We're looking for people that want to sell Bitcoins on the Bittylicious platform" 19:47:04 "Our proposed fix raises the threshold to 25% if universally adopted. And, while there may be other fixes, no fix can raise it above 33%. - See more at: http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/04/bitcoin-is-broken/#sthash.cF1z946n.dpuf" 19:47:11 Much clearer than that other sentence 19:49:51 -!- [li]|Gaming has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 19:54:01 The comments are just... ugh 19:56:22 it's 2^8 PM :D 19:58:54 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:59:30 -!- tromp has joined. 20:00:57 Sgeo: I tried to distill the information content of your posts but ended up with the empty set. Here's a gentle hint: if your arguments do not invoke math, they are not going to be persuasive, at least, not to technical people. 20:01:01 this. 20:01:19 arguments about what? 20:02:11 kmc: i wont post the comment. its pretty long and vacuous. just search a snippet of what i just pasted and look at the comment above it. 20:02:44 you're talking about this bitcoin stuff? 20:02:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:03:16 kmc: mhm. about the link i posted a little while ago 20:03:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:05:19 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:06:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:08:48 Look, all you're doing is a syntactic match. You're finding words that sound the same in a random walk through concept space. 20:08:55 Wow, this man is on a roll. 20:09:10 I'm so stealing that line. 20:09:59 word salad 20:11:00 sure, but it accurately describes what the person being replied to was doing. as well as this is something i encounter a lot and the man put it so succinctly. 20:11:25 Nice paper, though they do not show that there strategy is optimal (and thus, the actual required pool sizes may be smaller.) 20:12:48 well, i dont think an proof of optimality is neccessary, just that an unfair advantage can be gained through the described process. 20:13:36 True, except for the claimed security against pools of 25% size with their fix. 20:14:47 you should tell him that then 20:14:55 (I didn't mean to distract from the key insight, which is, essentially, that immediately publishing a found block is not necessarily the best possible strategy.) 20:15:33 right right, very good point though 20:20:29 -!- madbr has joined. 20:20:33 sup 20:20:44 the ceiling 20:25:04 lol 20:29:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:38:33 fungot: sup 20:38:33 kmc: okay, that's fair enough. 20:38:48 fungot: too much is never enough 20:38:48 kmc: but i'll humor you with random comments 20:38:54 fungot: for a nominal fee? 20:38:55 kmc: that could work, but there seems to be the fbi field office, or sing sing, or something 20:39:08 fungot's going up the river for a good long time 20:39:08 kmc: from the eight language polyglot page: " 25 jan 2001 richard stallman the proper name is " fnord" 20:39:19 fungot knows the True Name of RMS 20:48:20 That was scary relevant. 20:48:31 At least the initial part. 20:49:12 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:50:52 * kmc pokes fungot 21:09:17 -!- sky__ has joined. 21:10:03 -!- sky__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:13:29 Nng, Chromium has somehow stopped making "g" a working keyword for a Google search. If I switch the keyword to something else (like "gg"), it seems to work; but not when it's just "g". 21:14:20 And "g" works if Google is not set as the default search engine. 21:14:30 I wonder if I can somehow have no default search engine. 21:15:01 It doesn't seem to be possible to delete the one set default. 21:20:22 You could not use chrome 21:20:48 I don't quite understand why it won't work, though. 21:21:32 It seems so very specific to "g"; if Google is set as the default search engine, "g" doesn't seem to work as a keyword for anything else; but other single letters (like "q") are no problem. 21:24:10 Well, I added a new search engine called "Gurgle", with the keyword "g" and a Google search URL, and set that as the default. That seems to work. 21:24:29 With the slight cosmetic issue that the bar now says "search Gurgle" instead of "search Google", but... 21:24:58 (Maybe I should've just switched to that duck thing?) 21:28:59 trying to develop a language where each statement contains a bunch of parts that can be evaluated in any order 21:29:22 where you could go 21:31:04 that seems like a feature and not a bug fungot 21:31:07 er, fizzie 21:31:28 switch to duckduckgo. 21:31:34 it's much better. 21:31:35 Two: whenever fungot's not responding, all the other characters should be asking "Where's fungot?" 21:31:37 destVector.pushBack(v), v=srcVector[n], !map.has(v) 21:32:10 Where's fungot? 21:32:10 fizzie: calculation of fnord fnord on. i want the old one is so that threads are a bitch 21:32:11 this means "add all contents of srcVector that isn't in map into destVector" 21:32:13 Oh, right there. 21:32:19 the compiler would compile it to 21:32:45 fungot doesn't like me anymore? :( 21:32:45 kmc: fnord annoying that way. and i never seen okoing before... 21:33:03 kmc: There's a limit of no more than four consecutive replies, which I'm sure you're aware of. 21:33:18 am i? 21:33:27 well I am now 21:33:40 I'm sure that was covered on fungot 101. 21:33:40 fizzie: not a quine: 21:33:43 for(int n=0; n like 21:35:07 the current tool I'm developping at work is a mountain of iterations on vectors, maps and json objects of various kinds 21:35:14 -!- tromp has joined. 21:35:25 and the syntax for that kind of manipulation is just too verbose 21:35:38 it sounds like logic programming 21:36:03 yeah essentially I'm trying to see if I can borrow from logic programming to make code less verbose 21:36:22 fungot: ook? 21:36:22 LinearInterpol: i'm about to go. with your ordinary font it's much less honest it's much easier to just register bsmnt_bot. that's the one 21:36:45 hmm. 21:36:48 fungot: fungot 21:36:48 LinearInterpol: there's some weird math thing about them comes from them being unary 21:36:51 same thing happens in c++ 21:36:57 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:37:00 std::vector is nice and I want to use it a lot 21:37:14 but the resulting code is kinda wordy 21:37:54 the usual attitude to that is something like "the IDE helps you, man up and type more" 21:38:19 but even then the code turns into some sortof hard to read dense stuff 21:38:54 I could split it into functions more and use more curly braces but it would not make the code any easier to read and any less complex 21:39:23 the foreach() you see in python etc is a nice idea but I think it's kindof not enough 21:39:30 and it doesn't save you enough typing 21:41:25 and there's the functional idea of giving the vector a callback to what you want to do and have it loop 21:41:27 god damn it why are there only three Crystal Castles albums 21:41:51 but in usual programming languages (C++, java for me) that turns super hyper verbose and isn't something you want to ever do 21:42:19 i need at least five more to be happy in life 21:42:38 So I'm thinking that language development atm is optimizing the wrong thing 21:43:02 thankfully not all languages are C++ or Java 21:43:08 they should work on boring old loops and conditionals 21:43:31 in Haskell or Python or C# (LINQ) you can do very concise high level traversals & manipulations on data like that 21:44:07 python has syntactic whitespace.... which controversial 21:44:20 and if there's some pattern not already supported you can define and use it rather than duplicating code 21:44:20 but personally I'm under the impression that it's a good idea :D 21:44:55 actually C++ supports a lot of trickery too thanks to operator overloading & templates, but it can get pretty unmanageable 21:45:01 other languages have nicer ways to do those things 21:45:33 I like Haskell 21:45:40 I also somewhat like Rust 21:45:45 cool 21:46:40 usually I try to write my code to use the least possible curly braces 21:46:49 so I have a lot of early exits 21:47:07 and I've started to use continue and break in loops as well 21:47:47 and I try to make loop or conditional statements single line so I don't have to use braces 21:48:33 madbr: I think syntactic whitespace is a good idea as long as it's just sugar for an equivalent whitespace-insensitive form 21:48:45 so Haskell passes that test but Python doesn't 21:48:53 but I still use Python a lot because, meh, no language is perfect 21:49:00 I don't like Python but not for that reason 21:49:09 I... don't really like any language any more 21:49:22 I think you have to pick your fights 21:49:33 the worst consequence in Python is that lambda is so restricted, also that it's hard to code Python at a REPL 21:49:44 I guess I don't really know many languages 21:49:51 Really, I only know Haskell, Python, and C 21:49:56 Very much in that order, too 21:50:32 if you're writing sound rendering code, you can't have dynamic typing or garbage collection 21:50:33 Haskell is the language you know best? 21:50:37 kmc, yeah 21:50:40 interesting 21:50:51 madbr: do you know much about Rust? 21:50:51 so like 99% of sound code is C++ 21:51:06 I know it's a new interesting thing but I haven't ever used it 21:51:10 ok 21:51:12 I'll be learning Java next term, but I kind of want to get ahead 21:51:20 So the next I'll learn is Java probably 21:51:21 it's aiming squarely at the niche of systems code which can't afford garbage collection etc. 21:51:30 I've been meaning to learn loooooaaaaads of languages 21:51:34 it's a credible C++ replacement which is exciting because there are so few of those 21:51:39 right 21:52:11 Rust, Scheme, Common Lisp, Elm, C++, Go, Agda, JavaScript, etc, etc, etc 21:52:30 it has two exciting researchy ideas (move/ownership semantics, and region pointers) and the rest is just like let's design a systems language for 2010s instead of 1970, so you get real module system, real macros, pattern matching, etc. 21:52:34 taneb : anything you want to program in particular? 21:52:39 goooood shit 21:52:47 madbr, not really 21:53:10 I want to know enough so that when I think of something I'll be able to say "this language is a good fit" and just write 21:53:25 I've also been meaning to design a language for game sprite logic scripting, and there's nothing that fits that 21:53:38 I was writing a Haskell library that did that 21:53:40 lua is popular but lua isn't really designed for that 21:53:41 Never finished it, though 21:54:12 Taneb: Java is so depressing, it's just incomplete 21:54:30 lua is a nice dynamic language in the same family as javascript or python... and I'm not convinced that's what games need 21:54:30 and the designers clearly thought of themselves as smarter than the users 21:54:44 java is... well, it's usable clearly 21:54:50 but it makes you dead inside 21:54:50 Taneb: C# has the same basic concepts as Java but actually provides the tools you need to be effective with it 21:54:53 no idea how 21:55:12 kmc, unfortunately, I can't choose what language I'll use for at least the first year 21:55:30 2nd year of my course there's a module which is basically "all of them" 21:55:42 taneb: you should figure out what kind of company you want to work in 21:55:47 I like it when languages are designed around the idea that I do know what I'm doing, which is very different from being designed around the idea that I'll never make mistakes 21:55:48 what kind of stuff you want to code 21:56:47 I'd kind of like to be in web backends 21:56:52 For some bizarre reason 21:56:56 my interests are sound processing, game stuff so for me it's all about C++ 21:56:59 I'd probably hate it after a month, but anyway 21:57:44 and even some assembly if I can justify it (not very often unfortunately :D) 21:57:59 i love writing assembly 22:00:20 whoa, whoa, whoa, the game of life is only from 1970? 22:00:29 i thought it was from 1930 or something 22:00:32 shachaf, I'm only from 1994 22:01:05 My university is probably younger than some people in this channel 22:01:47 Taneb : which language do they get you started on? 22:01:58 madbr, Python 22:02:20 when I did CS at uni (only a year) it was C++ but they were going to switch to python like next year 22:02:45 I know some unis start with Java and others start with Scala 22:03:01 yeah some start with java 22:03:16 which... makes sense considering the market but is still kinda evil :D 22:03:19 python isn't bad 22:03:30 scala is functional no? 22:03:36 -!- VipSS has joined. 22:03:44 madbr, it's mixed paradigm, functional/OO 22:03:46 I think 22:04:02 sounds like a very academic approach 22:04:10 all languages are "mixed paradigm" 22:04:19 paradigms describe code styles not languages 22:04:24 Wonder how many still start with Scheme. 22:04:30 at best you can say that a given language suggests or discourages a particular style 22:04:41 madbr, this was Oxford, and they switch to Haskell later 22:04:50 i see 22:04:59 I have a colleague using Scala, and he keeps confusing me when he talks about the number of arguments a function takes (he doesn't count the implicit object from the OO paradigm part) 22:08:53 i like that 'self' is an explicit argument in Python, and that bound object methods are just partial application closures over 'self' 22:09:20 in Rust you write a 'self' argument as well but it's a keyword and has special syntax which is confusingly different from other args :/ 22:09:43 What's wrong with the implicit argument? 22:10:45 shrug 22:10:52 it's a vague aesthetic preference only 22:11:13 in Rust you need to write it because methods can take 'self' by reference or by value or other ways 22:11:45 mhmm 22:12:37 if you have «let x = ...; x.f();» and f takes self by value, then x is moved into the method call and using the variable x after that call is statically forbidden 22:12:41 which is a neat capability 22:12:46 o.O 22:12:47 thx god its sunday 22:13:04 @localtime VipSS 22:13:05 Local time for VipSS is 2013-12-14 23:13:04 +0000 22:13:29 I don't think it's Sunday there. 22:16:08 -!- yorick has joined. 22:16:18 i think it is so !!! wake up or sleep ! sundayyyy :( 22:16:35 `relcome VipSS 22:16:39 ​VipSS: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:16:51 VipSS: are you a bot? 22:18:03 yap 22:19:27 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:03 -!- tromp has joined. 22:22:18 fiora fiori fio 22:23:08 fizzie: do you agree ? 22:23:19 -!- carado has joined. 22:24:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:24:37 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:27:29 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:37 VipSS, hello how are you 22:29:37 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:31:40 fungot, meet VipSS 22:31:41 FireFly: wonder if i can find about it 22:33:02 -!- carado has joined. 22:33:22 hi phantom , thx, d you ? 22:35:47 hey can we find a drink ?! i am ;) cheerrzz 22:36:48 VipSS: do you understand what this channel's about? 22:37:08 noo 22:37:43 tell me 22:38:06 it's about programming languages, specifically ones that are designed to be weird rather than useful 22:38:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:38:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Client Quit). 22:38:52 VipSS, ais523 is lying, it's hardly ever about that 22:39:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:39:19 Phantom_Hoover, it's supposed to be about that, though 22:39:37 Phantom_Hoover: I thought our rule atm was that people have to be at least interested in being ontopic on occasion 22:39:44 like, otherwise it'd just be #defocus 22:40:12 Taneb, yes, but primarily it serves as a centring point for all the other things we talk about 22:41:37 do you mean hacking and virus programs ! and you can talk about solutions ! 22:41:50 might as well 22:42:10 VipSS: not really 22:42:24 there's some overlap, but it's mostly about admiring things like ASCII-only code 22:43:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:46:28 i will tell my opinion about, after ... you know 22:47:53 joking , it is none of my interest , sorry guys 22:48:35 ais523: is it only about esoteric programming languages, not about esoteric code in other programming languages? 22:49:11 b_jonas: it's not really a stretch to make it about esoprograming generally 22:49:45 actually this is (or used to be) a good channel for me to ask when I have bizarre programming problems in general 22:49:58 because it tends to solve the problem you claim to have rather than the problem it thinks you have 22:50:04 and sometimes I have some very weird problems 22:50:07 ais523: oh sure, but I'm asking what epcifically counts as on topic 22:50:42 I remember going to #ocaml with a question that boiled down to "I have a sandbox that works like X for my marking script, now I need to convert a char to a string, but because of my sandbox I can't use the standard library, any ideas?" 22:50:55 btw, the solution is that strings are mutable in OCaml 22:51:03 so you start with an arbitrary one-character string 22:51:10 then concatenate it to the null string to create a fresh string 22:51:15 and then mutate the fresh string 22:51:24 What was the #ocaml solution? 22:51:39 Taneb: we were working on it together, that solution was what we came up with collectively 22:51:49 Oh 22:51:53 someone else mentioned using the standard library via the FFI rather than directly 22:51:59 I didn't pay much attention to that 22:52:05 but one of the students escaped the sandbox using it 22:52:11 hehe 22:52:12 so perhaps I should have done 22:52:39 but because I'm paranoid, there were two sandboxes 22:52:45 and they didn't escape the outside one, so all was well 22:53:16 at what level where the two sandboxes? the ocaml compiler and the operating system? 22:54:11 one was at the parser level, it rejected uses of unauthorized libraries via refusing to parse them 22:54:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:54:19 the other was Linux's syscall-based sandbox 22:54:37 that turns off all syscalls but reads and writes to files that were already opened in advance, exits, and returning from signal handlers 22:55:39 the sysadmins actually set up a VM for that, because it wasn't compiled into the kernel on the standard Linux build at our organization 22:55:44 -!- VipSS has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:56:09 so in html, I can use to have a server-side image map that submits a form, right? 22:56:50 err, no idea 22:56:56 I can believe that something like that's possible 22:56:59 but don't know the syntax 22:57:07 I'll try later 22:57:42 it's clearly possible but the question is whether it's possible without javascript 22:58:06 the html standard seems to say it's possilbe, but I'll have to test how much it works in browsers 23:01:57 I wonder if it's on http://caniuse.com 23:02:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:02:29 perhaps not 23:03:03 ais523: nice webpage, I haven't heared of that 23:03:31 it's not mine 23:06:58 let me check what that says about extra svg blending modes like http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/compositing-1/ 23:08:14 why do those have only the more expensive multiply and screen modes instead of supporting the faster add and subtract as well though? more expensive when alpha is involved that is. 23:08:46 nope, http://caniuse.com/ doesn't mentino these 23:20:52 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:39:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:47:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:53:15 -!- oerjan has set topic: [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat | Set the controls for the heart of the sun | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 23:54:03 > [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat 23:54:04 [Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Jus... 23:54:15 hmm? 23:54:22 yes? 23:55:12 (hint: compare to previous topic) 23:55:41 hehe 23:55:42 i lost it :( 23:55:53 su015315 -: NOTHING IS BEYOND OUR REACH 23:55:55 su015315 +: [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat 23:55:57 (diff) 23:56:00 aha 23:57:11 aww. lol. 23:57:20 NOTHING IS BEYOND OUR REACH. 23:58:14 :t repeat 23:58:15 a -> [a] 23:58:16 err 23:58:26 since when was colon lambdabot syntax? 23:58:34 since always 23:58:42 only for :t and :k, though 23:58:51 right 23:59:05 so trying to understand that work 23:59:33 I mentally expand it into "do {x <- [Just (), Nothing]; repeat x}", is that the correct resugaring? 23:59:43 easier to just think of it as 23:59:50 concatMap repeat [Just (), Nothing] 23:59:52 ais523: yes 2013-12-15: 00:00:09 = repeat (Just ()) ++ repeat Nothing 00:00:35 oh right, ofc 00:00:58 repeat's being interpreted as a List monad action 00:01:07 > [] >>= repeat 00:01:08 [] 00:01:09 should be empty list 00:01:10 yeah 00:01:15 OK I think I understand this 00:01:28 > [repeat x | x <- [Just (), Nothing]] 00:01:29 [[Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Ju... 00:01:50 nooodl: not quite 00:02:03 oops. concat that 00:02:09 > [y | x <- [Just (), Nothing], y <- repeat x] 00:02:10 [Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Jus... 00:02:23 yeah 00:02:23 why did Haskell get rid of monad comprehensions? 00:02:28 because they were just more complex than do-notation? 00:03:10 ais523: it was all part of that "making types simpler for newbies" stuff in the transition from haskell 1.4 to haskell 98 00:03:16 i think they're not very useful and make things unnecessarily complicated 00:03:21 e.g. map used to be fmap 00:03:27 :t fmap 00:03:29 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 00:03:40 and List is a functor 00:03:40 or, well, unnecessarily generalized 00:03:41 ais523: there's an extension to reenable them now, though. 00:03:42 so yeah, that works 00:04:28 i don't like how fmap looks usually :( it's weird 00:04:40 i often catch myself writing <$> but that's so "perl" 00:04:48 -!- FreeFull has quit. 00:05:26 now I'm wondering how <$> parses in Perl 00:05:46 I guess as "<" and "$>" 00:06:05 (where $> is, umm, effective UID?) 00:06:21 `perl-e print $> 00:06:25 5000 00:06:33 `perl-e print 2 <$> 00:06:35 1 00:07:04 `interp perl print "i think this should work, unless it broke" 00:07:06 exec: 4: ibin/perl: not found 00:07:15 you'd think. 00:07:17 `perl-e print <$> 00:07:18 Final $ should be \$ or $name at -e line 1, within string \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "print <$>" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 00:07:28 oh, right, that makes a /lot/ of sense 00:07:46 can't interpolate $> into a literal read from filehandle for the same reason you can't interpolate $" into a string 00:07:50 `perl-e print "$"" 00:07:51 String found where operator expected at -e line 1, at end of line \ (Missing semicolon on previous line?) \ Final $ should be \$ or $name at -e line 1, within string \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "print "$"" \ Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at -e line 1. 00:07:54 yep 00:07:56 lol 00:07:58 Huh, map used to be fmap? 00:07:59 I was wondering how that would parse 00:08:07 wtf is $" 00:08:08 And monad comprehensions were actually a standard thing? 00:08:18 `perl-e print $" 00:08:20 No output. 00:08:23 the Haskell Committee: I liked their earlier work better 00:09:45 kmc: I think $" is to do with interpolating an array into a string 00:10:07 `perl-e my @x = qw/1 2 3/; local $" = '-'; print "@x"; 00:10:08 1-2-3 00:10:10 yep 00:10:16 @let {-# LANGUAGE MonadComprehensions #-} {- doubt it works but worth a try -} 00:10:16 Parse failed: Parse error: EOF 00:11:19 @let {-# LANGUAGE MonadComprehensions #-}; test = [x | x <- Just "test"] 00:11:19 .L.hs:150:18: 00:11:20 Couldn't match expected type `[t0]' with actual type `Maybe [Char]' 00:11:20 In the return type of a call of `Just' 00:11:20 In the expression: Just "test" 00:11:20 In a stmt of a list comprehension: x <- Just "test" 00:12:32 i suppose it has to disable language extensions for security anyhow. 00:39:45 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 01:00:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:14:30 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:19:52 `unicode CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O 01:19:54 ​о 01:20:07 @tell fizzie With the slight cosmetic issue that the bar now says "search Gurgle" instead of "search Google", but... <-- try with cyrillic o (о) maybe? 01:20:07 Consider it noted. 01:20:20 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER OMICRON 01:20:21 ​ο 01:20:25 that's a good o too 01:22:25 -!- Bike has joined. 01:32:36 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:34:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:37:06 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:44:38 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:44:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:51:37 https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9974-PAXN-6252 Why does DirectX install with every game? […] the only way to distribute them is to run the installer, that's also the only supported method from Microsoft to check that the correct version installed. Trying to manually check for the correct versions is extremely complicated […] In addition, the dependencies and required checks may 01:51:39 change in each new version of the D3DX runtime. The code to check correctly and repair broken installs all exists in the installer and running it is a guarantee that the correct binaries will exist when you run the game 01:52:44 whoa, whoa, whoa, the game of life is only from 1970? <-- how old did you think conway was, anyway? 01:53:40 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:53:57 i'm not sure how old conway is. he has done a lot of things. 01:53:58 is he alive? 01:54:08 -!- muskrat has joined. 01:54:12 yes. 01:54:22 good for him. 01:54:50 oh, an erdos number of one. of course he's done a lot of shit then 01:56:03 `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DOUBLE ACUTE 01:56:04 ​ő 01:56:18 i'm sure there are _some_ people with an erdős number of one who only did that one paper with erdős. 01:56:25 probably 01:56:50 conway is not one of them. 01:57:36 cőnway 01:58:01 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:13 i was about to ask for a list of everyone with an erdos number of one but then remembered the entire point is that he cowrote a shitfuck of papers 01:58:38 511, apparently 01:58:41 i think there's a list over at the erdős number project site 01:59:52 huh, some neat stats here 01:59:56 «The five people with more than 200 coauthors are Paul Erdös (of course) with 509 (although the MR data actually show only 504, missing some coauthors of very minor works or works before 1940, when MR was started), FRANK HARARY (Erdös number 1) with 268, Yuri Alekseevich Mitropolskii (Erdös number 3) with 244, NOGA ALON (Erdös number 1) with 227, and Hari M. Srivastava (Erdös number 2) with 244.» 02:00:08 i think conway is special for doing _both_ very deep and very popular math 02:00:14 i have never heard of the others actually 02:00:17 oerjan: yes it's great 02:00:39 i always thought of conway as that guy who did Life and Doomsday and then i found out, oh, no, he's really a trillion times smarter than me 02:01:52 " a person who has collaborated but does not find herself in the Erdös component of C has on the average collaborated with only one or two people" 02:02:29 -!- CADD has joined. 02:02:29 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 02:02:52 it's weird to think about the average erdos number increasing over time even though it's super obvious 02:03:57 i guess it's technically occasionally decreasing too 02:04:47 hm, i wonder what the data would look like for academia in general 02:06:28 doesn't it go up whenever anyone is born, and down the rest of the time? 02:07:28 or are you only counting people with a non-infinite value? 02:07:38 non-infinite, i suppose 02:07:55 i might be overestimating the effect of time given that the 'maximum' number is 13 according to the enp 02:08:52 each individual person's goes down over time 02:08:55 * oerjan notes that conway was born on doomsday 02:08:57 right. 02:09:06 basically i want to know the erdos number of edward gibbon. 02:09:29 hmm… I almost certainly have an Erdős number, but it'll be hard to determine it automatically because I have such a common name 02:10:06 ais523: try your collaborators unless they're too many? 02:10:15 yeah, probably the best option 02:10:18 I only have two 02:10:32 enp also notes that collaboration has gone up over time so the farther back in time i go the more unconnected components there will be, probably 02:11:38 i'm still amused by the fact i can look up an ethologist on academictree and trace his lineage back to paul of tarsus D 02:11:41 *:D 02:11:51 ais523: it goes up if someone dies who has lower than average, and down in the opposite case 02:12:04 and can go down whenever a paper is published 02:12:10 yes 02:12:18 and up when someone new joins the field 02:12:37 let's see, darwin collaborated with captain fitzroy, now who did fitzroy collaborate with, 02:12:38 I guess people who die will tend to have a below-average number due to being older than the average researcher on average 02:12:41 and thus having produced more papers 02:12:54 we're not counting infinites, so someone joining the field can still go either way. 02:13:37 as long as the average is larger than 1+minimum 02:13:53 now i want biology metrics help 02:15:10 like are things different since mathematical discovery is generally different from bug discovery 02:18:09 -!- muskrat has left ("Leaving"). 02:19:25 whut'cha discussin' in here, esolang. 02:19:38 erdos numbers 02:21:31 ahh. 02:21:33 erdos numbers.. 02:22:16 have to wonder what mine is. 02:22:34 mine's infinity. nice&tidy 02:22:58 countable or uncountable 02:23:30 kind of a nonsensical question i think? 02:24:25 nah. 02:26:44 countable, clearly 02:26:58 or arguably 14 02:27:03 lol 02:27:19 LinearInterpol: http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/collaborationDistance.html 02:29:59 ais523: hm i tried your name and it claims to find several but the selection menu is buggy, perhaps it's because it's too large. 02:30:18 oerjan: try Dan Ghica, Satnam Singh (although the latter name may still be ambiguous) 02:30:20 then add one 02:30:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:34:21 4+1 = 5 for the first, none for the second 02:35:21 lots of just S. or S. + another initial, though 02:38:00 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:38:51 also i think the menu wasn't actually buggy i was just confused by it not opening a new page directly on clicking the item 02:40:37 sadly, unless you've collaborated with either John R. Blake or Albert John Petkay, neither option is you 02:42:42 @tell oklofok *MWAHAHA* i now know your middle name! 02:42:42 Consider it noted. 02:44:36 my erdos number is 5?! 02:44:41 haah. 02:45:10 @tell oklofok unless mathscinet is confusing you with someone else 02:45:11 Consider it noted. 02:45:53 cue him using "oklopol" exclusively for the next 3 years. 02:49:08 hm i'm finding further evidence that the initial is correct. 02:50:26 (aka his university homepage.) 02:52:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:52:40 countable or uncountable 02:52:40 kind of a nonsensical question i think? 02:52:40 nah. 02:52:51 lol. 02:52:55 well it'd be an ordinal right 02:53:18 Phantom_Hoover: but that only implies ais523's 14 02:53:25 cardinal. 02:53:41 not ordinal. 02:53:44 iirc. 02:53:58 hmm 02:53:59 why 02:54:01 all cardinals are ordinals unless you're dictatorially opposed to free choice 02:54:07 lol. 02:54:16 cardinals are indexed by ordinals. 02:54:50 oerjan: all cardinals are ordinals 02:54:57 choice just affects whether every set has a size 02:55:32 coppro: no you can also use foundation instead 02:56:02 and do something like "a cardinal is the set of all minimal rank sets of that size" 02:57:19 but i guess if you have neither, then i don't know how to choose a suitable "witness" for a given cardinality. 02:57:56 a unique one, that is. 02:59:38 hm does foundation imply every set is smaller than a beth? 03:00:22 i think it would. 03:03:42 "In ZF, for any cardinals κ and μ, there is an ordinal α such that:" 03:03:43 \kappa \le \beth_{\alpha}(\mu). 03:04:04 *-" +" 03:04:19 which i take to mean yes 03:04:20 i was just thinking that 'infinity' in the context of erdos numbers isn't very setty anyway 03:04:25 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:04:30 Bike: indeed 03:04:44 i /guess/ you could take it as not reached by incrementing which is like the smallest infinity 03:05:13 it's more like "maximal element of order", used when taking minimum of empty set. 03:05:21 anyway i kind of want to see the mathematical collaboration graph 03:05:37 the thing says it's small worldy, but are there like, bottlenecks between different fields, say 03:33:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:35:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 03:40:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:50:01 Whose stupid idea was it to save note period values in a .MOD file but then convert them to note numbers upon loading? Better would be to play the note periods actually stored instead, but that isn't how it is done. 03:50:43 zzo38 : it's a storied format :D 03:50:57 s3m and later formats don't have that mistake 03:52:44 madbr: Yes, they store the note numbers directly; I still think it would make sense to use the stored note periods to play the notes rather than converting between them, although this makes arpeggio effect difficult (although storing the arpeggio as individual notes instead would solve this too) 03:53:24 but then how do you transpose a sample? 03:53:37 go through all of the periods using that sample and change them? 03:53:59 also you'd still need to turn them into notes to show them in the editor 03:55:40 Yes you would transpose a sample in that way, if you need to deal with the existing file, I suppose 03:56:14 And I don't intend to read them to show in the editor anyways; I intend to use a compiler to produce the .MOD or whatever which is then played back using OpenMPT or MegaZeux or whatever other software would play them 03:56:49 well, now you know why notes are stored that way 03:57:18 MODs/s3ms/etc are also the project file you edit 03:57:32 they're not some kind of stripped/compiled output 03:58:18 Yes, you can load them in various editors, although maybe you do want to produce them with a compiler instead, which would be more useful to do things a bit differently 03:59:07 format is bad for doing thing is was not made for 03:59:44 I think ppl who produced music with a compiler went for some other formats 04:00:24 However many programs expect to use .MOD or .S3M formats for music 04:00:35 stuff like register write lists for the target sound chip (like the gym format or at least one of the adlib log formats) 04:00:48 zzo: yes, because there are lots of good sounding MODs and S3Ms 04:01:11 and there are lots of good sounding MODs and S3Ms because there are good editors for making them :D 04:01:55 drinking gløgge 04:02:00 is that legal 04:02:11 ain't no law in the water 04:02:34 kmc: *-e 04:02:46 ain't no law in the watr 04:02:49 ah, my host mis-spelled it then 04:03:01 wikipedia agrees with you 04:03:12 (this is the danish spelling) 04:03:14 I do know of other sound formats, such as .VGM which stores register writes for many sound chips (even more than one at once, and many of them can be doubled), but still I was asking because of programs that expect to use MOD/S3M format, which is why I wanted to write a compiler to create such files 04:04:02 fungot: u want gløgg? 04:04:02 kmc: not lots, but they don't exist 04:04:27 kmc: good, i was briefly wondering if it were the danes who somehow added an e. 04:04:47 they might do such silly things 04:05:15 danees 04:07:51 (the swedes, if being silly, would add an a instead.) 04:07:53 zzo : kindof the way it happened is that they were hardware periods at first 04:08:12 zzo38 : but then later on someone wrote... I think it was protracker 04:08:22 which lets you finetune the samples 04:09:01 anyway it's gøød 04:09:08 to avoid having to reupdate all the periods in the song when you change the finetune in a sample, notes are parsed in that bizarre way 04:09:18 the gløgg is good 04:12:30 kmc is getting drøgged with gløgg 04:12:56 madbr: OK, though 04:13:05 i won't deny it 04:13:08 or possibly just drønk 04:13:14 `quote dronk 04:13:16 724) aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u (corruption of "aim heckler") 04:13:43 now dipping ginger cookies in the gløgg 04:13:46 And which programs support FM instruments in S3M anyways? How many files use that anyways? 04:14:02 (norwegian ø is not too far from english u in that position) 04:14:20 zzo38 : I think modplug tracker actually will play the FM channels 04:14:56 zzo38 : irl the reason why nobody uses FM channels is that they are out of sync 04:14:59 frequency modulation...? 04:15:05 (in the original tracker) 04:15:13 madbr: Looking in the samples menu I don't see anything about FM, though 04:15:38 because the sample channels are mixed into a buffer which is played after some time 04:15:48 but the fm channels play instantaneously 04:16:17 so s3ms are either all FM (I've seen only 2 of those!) or all samples 04:16:24 (every other s3m!) 04:17:48 There are other formats for FM anyways 04:18:48 there are like 20 different formats for opl2 04:19:06 VGM is one of the formats that supports OPL2 and even OPL3 and OPLL 04:19:23 (And you can use all of them in the same file too if you want to) 04:21:39 so in practice s3ms are like MODs but better 04:22:01 wants http://imgur.com/a/LpuE8 04:27:51 because nothing plays the fm instruments because why 04:37:50 oerjan: maybe it was a different conway, who knows 04:50:04 hichaf 04:50:12 hi kmc 04:52:19 shachaf: there's another that did/does complex function theory iirc 04:53:12 btw the fact that the cantor set is called that is kind of silly 04:53:23 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Conway 04:53:40 why silly 04:53:56 well, cantor is responsible for quite a lot of sets 04:54:08 most mathematicians are 04:54:14 but the cantor set is The Coolest of them. 04:54:49 Bike: cooler than a raccoon? 04:54:53 possibly 04:54:59 did cantor make a racoon set 04:55:12 slight clarification, it seems he wrote a _book_ about complex functions, but actual research in functional analysis. 04:55:20 no but there was a raccoon here next to me a few minutes ago 04:55:25 v. cautious raccoon 04:55:25 how does that happen 04:55:43 what, the raccoon? 04:55:43 http://www.chrisabraham.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/racoon-pope-Sean-Tejaratchi.png 04:56:05 cool there's people arguing that circuits are fundamentally different from programs because fpgas aren't real or something 04:56:14 nice hat 04:56:52 i am currently in san francisco but going back south soon 04:57:40 ask santa claus for an fpga 04:57:50 shachaf: how's san francisco 04:57:57 kind of cold 04:58:01 but i'm outside 04:58:04 (hence the raccoon) 05:06:14 douglass_ and I went to a pet store today kind of by accident 05:06:19 we managed not to buy any cats 05:06:20 or raccoons 05:07:23 they have raccooons in pet shops? 05:07:33 i don't think so 05:08:02 one of the weird things about Tirana, Albania is that there are about five pet shops on every block 05:08:22 Why are these .S3M formats and so on so confusingly designed? 05:08:46 historical materialism, zzo 05:09:28 kmc: imo your house needs a cat 05:09:34 imo cat cafe 05:09:57 zzo : because it's just how some dude arranged stuff in a real mode dos program :o 05:10:47 keepin' it real mode 05:11:32 like s3m file offsets are real mode segments :D 05:12:06 I am not talking about those kind of things actually 05:12:54 does that just mean they're in units of 16 bytes? 05:13:15 kmc: imo pointless cat cafe 05:13:27 kmc: yes 05:13:33 maybe n-category cafe should open a physical frnachise 05:13:49 topless pointology 05:14:13 But rather I mean the way channel mapping works, and how some effects are ignored on tick 0, and so on 05:17:21 zzo38: is that because it takes one tick to set up the effect? 05:17:34 kmc: I don't know why. 05:17:39 ♫ 05:18:52 hey zzo38 what do you think of i2s 05:19:01 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:19:05 I don't know what that is 05:19:27 it is a serial format for transmitting music between integrated circuits 05:36:31 zzo : s3m channel mapping was confusing because the tracker mapped differently on soundblaster than on gravis ultra sound :o 05:41:53 and editing the channel map in st3 would move around the channels in some bizarre way 05:45:42 normally you just map channels 0-15, aka left1, right1, left2, right2, left3, right3, etc... 05:46:57 and override that default panning because that kind of hard-left/hard-right panning sounds kinda stupid 05:52:32 Yes it is stupid like that too 06:09:34 it makes sense on a 386 with a sb pro when trying to save every last cycle but still 06:10:24 They seem to contain various stupid things which might cause problems to write a compiler into such formats; what is best way to write such a compiler in a way that would work in best way? 06:10:49 are your notes quantized in time? 06:11:12 ie do they arrive exactly on 16ths, 8ths, beats etc 06:12:01 Usually they would be, but they might not be, due to some things 06:12:19 if they are not, you have to use the delay effect 06:12:35 (SD1, SD2, SD3 etc) 06:13:24 alternatively you could play around with the playback speed (effect A - change speed) but that has other issues 06:13:44 (mostly that your slides don't end up being quite the same) 06:14:39 the main problem is that you can only have 1 effect per row 06:14:43 per chanel 06:15:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:15:54 so if you need a pitch slide that can't happen at the same time as a note delay 06:18:29 normally you end up fine because most effects are only applied on either note start (sample offset, glissando, note delay...) or later on the note (vibrato, volume slides, pitch slide down...) 06:21:02 some stuff like spc converters set the speed super high (like A02) to sorta solve some of these issues, but then you end up with other issues anyways (mostly that slides end up rather strange) 06:23:31 Yes there are those kind of issues too, I thought of 06:33:52 I wanted to write a MML compiler into one or more of these music formats 06:36:07 -!- farrioth has joined. 06:36:57 Currently it is difficult to use MML with such software that expects music in .MOD or .S3M format, since no such program to compile it is exist 06:37:55 lots of things suggest that topoi are good should i learn about them y/n 06:42:22 madbr: Are you aware of existing such softwares though? 06:47:48 So, I've been thinking about natrual-language-like programming languages such as Inform 7 and, arguably, COBOL. I wonder if they provide any advantages in expression to the programmer (i.e., better ability to program in such a language) based on the programmer being able to use UG (Universal Grammar), or whether the syntactic simalarities to natrual language are really only superficial, and so provide only an a priori familiarity wi 06:47:52 what's "topoi" 06:48:23 farrioth: Your message isn't finished, but I think they aren't advantageous. 06:48:32 farrioth : I think we don't know enough about irl languages 06:48:38 also UG is silly. 06:48:50 and doesn't even apply. 06:48:53 also, hello. 06:48:55 a lot of language processing irl is statistic 06:49:09 my name is bike. 06:49:21 madbr: topoi seem to be something something grothendieck 06:50:23 madbr: Explicitly, implicitly, or to answer my question? 06:50:49 like, what google translate does it a whole bunch of stats 06:51:03 to figure out what's the most likely translation of a group of words 06:51:24 there are some theories that humans work in similar ways. i personally don't buy this but some real linguists do. 06:51:42 chomsky is kind of out of sorts nowadays. 06:51:45 Bike: Hello; and even if one doesn't take a strong Chomskyan view (I only do for the sake of discussion), you could argue that L1 gives a learning advantage to L2, and I wonder if this applies if L2 is a natrualistic programming language. 06:52:10 it's possible. 06:52:30 I think such programming languages provide disadvantages to learning them and programming in them and expression, although they may provide advantages to understand the program more easily, once it is already written. 06:52:33 i don't know anything about language acquisition, though, and i'm reasonably sure that good research on programming language acquisition does not exist. 06:52:42 just a lot of made up thoughts. 06:53:59 An idea I had is if you are using such natural-language programming, have the program include various annotations and other symbols, and underlying codes in other programming languages that can be specified using escapes, and have it reformat them for printout. In fact I wanted to do this for Magic: the Gathering cards, too. 06:54:00 I've seen reasonably convinicing arguments that language processing by humans is probablilistic (such as by Florian Jaeger); it is certainly context-dependant. 06:54:20 Bike: Research on programming language acquisition would be interesting. 06:54:34 Bike: And I don't suspect there is much. 06:55:24 well, i don't think what you're talking about is particularly dependent on the underlying mechanism, i mean. it could be true in both a chomskyian and a norvig...ian world 06:55:35 zzo38: Do you think such language provide disadvantages to learning because they are natrualistic? And what properties of natrual language makes this so? 06:55:59 i'm just pretty skeptical of constructed languages though. seen too many dumbasses thinking they have unlocked the key of thought 06:56:05 Bike: I agree, I was just framing it in terms of UG for convenience. 06:56:19 Bike: The Ithkuil crowd and so on? 06:56:58 "esigned to express deeper levels of human cognition briefly yet overtly and clearly, particularly with regard to human categorization" looks like it 06:57:13 zzo38: I would argue that NL is unsuitable as a programming paradigm primarily due to the fact that ambiguity is often desirable in NL, but not for code. 06:57:17 farrioth: Nearly all of the properties, I suppose. The programming language still has limitations and things that are unclear when you try to read it as a natural-language rather than as the program, so you will write everything wrong because it "looks right" to you... 06:57:29 Yes and that too. 06:57:34 ambiguity can be desirable in programming 06:57:53 Bike : when? 06:58:01 zzo38: Indeed. I've had similar experiences interacting with NL parses, e.g., in IF (interactive fiction). 06:58:15 Bike: But compilers/interpreters struggle with it, surely? 06:58:19 for example, in "higher-level" languages like C most of the point is targeting 06:58:27 the same C program can "mean" different things 06:58:52 Bike: Are you talking about reusable code? 06:59:07 farrioth: Yes I don't like or use Inform 7 at all, and yes even in IF games the entry can sometimes be a bit confusing but not nearly as much. 06:59:09 no, just the results of compilation or interpretation. 06:59:52 when you write "a += 4" you don't particularly care if that's implemented as an addition or as four increments or as nothing because "a" was optimized out, much of the time 07:00:23 Bike: Maybe the same code may 'mean' different things in different contexts (if I understand you), but this is actually a case of reusability, as the meaning to the computer is not context-dependent, even though the meaning to the programmer or user may be. 07:00:30 but then it's all x86, arm or some kind of risc 07:00:38 it can't vary that much 07:01:07 yes, and when i say "ambiguity can be desirable in programming" you can't reasonably interpret that as "buy me a soda" :p 07:01:22 Bike: Ambiguity is the reverse of that, what you're describing seems more akin to synonymy to me. 07:01:33 cross language synonymy 07:01:34 *? 07:01:38 madbr: Not always, actually 07:01:40 there's also undefined behavior. 07:02:20 zzo38: Do you know if I7 has seen much favour in the IF community by the way? I haven't kept up with such things for years. 07:02:48 sleep 07:02:50 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 07:03:16 farrioth: It seems to be popular although I do not recommend it 07:04:12 zzo38: Your argument above, "... so you will write everything wrong because it "looks right" to you," essentially means that your L1 will cause interference problems for the programming L2. Do you think that is a valid formalisation? 07:04:38 farrioth: I am not sure what you mean by "L1" and "L2". 07:04:45 zzo38: I though as much. I suspect it's popular with the 'writers' who want to make IF but don't have (much) programming experience. 07:05:18 zzo38: Sorry, language acquisition terminology. L1 = the language you speak; L2 = the language you are learning. 07:05:24 in natural language acquisition studies, L1 is the first language you learn (the native language) and L2 are others. 07:05:44 Ah, OK 07:09:39 Bike: Re the synonymy, what you are describing is multiple constructs that have the same meaning/result, but what I was meaning by ambiguity was one construct which has multiple meanings/results, the choice between which is not trivial. 07:10:19 Bike: You were saying that just the former is desirable in programming, right? 07:10:37 no, i'm thinking of the C source as the "one construct" and multiple possible compilations as "multiple meanings/results". 07:11:58 Bike: Ah. I was referring to ambiguity in terms of what a piece of code does, not how it does it. 07:12:10 Bike: I'd simply call that abstraction, incedentally. 07:12:22 Bike: But you have a valid point that that is desirable. 07:13:18 how about polymorphism? 07:14:38 Sure, but I think that has a different technical meaning. 07:15:21 Or were you meaning it in its technical sense an an example of desirable ambiguity? 07:15:36 the latter, yes 07:16:57 That would be true, yes. 07:17:06 Good example, in fact. 07:17:42 how about, more fundamentally, names 07:18:01 > map (\x -> x + x) [4,23] 07:18:01 Now, how does polymorphism map to NL ambiguity? 07:18:02 [8,46] 07:19:02 maybe like "I ran to the store" versus "the horse run past the barn fell" versus "is your refrigerator running?" 07:19:15 farrioth: I guess it's in the way that in a natural language, you can understand a sentence without understanding what it's about 07:19:40 in this case 'run' being the 'polymorphic operator'. 07:19:43 like, if a sentence contains a person's name and you don't recognise it 07:19:51 Bike: Yes, lexical ambiguiy, treating an operatior as equivalent to a lexeme. 07:19:52 then you can still parse and understand the rest of the sentence 07:20:35 (usually) 07:22:30 ais523: I don't know if I'd call that ambiguity. But I'm not sure what I'd call it, since it sits above the syntax-semantics interface. 07:23:04 ais523: In the example of not recognising a name. 07:23:32 farrioth: well, it works like programming language polymorphism for me 07:23:46 in a programming language, a polymorphic function can operate on data without knowing anything about its type 07:24:12 hm what if gløgg : gløgge :: dog : doge 07:24:31 Bike: Treating polymorphic/overloaded operators as ambiguous, they are always disambiguated linguistically (not extra-linguistically), right? 07:25:42 ais523: I understad that a polymophic operator must know about type, but its operation is type-dependent. I could be wrong, though. 07:26:15 :t map 07:26:16 (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] 07:26:21 nice and polymorphic 07:26:26 ais523: And in your example, which operator/lexeme is polymorphic/polysemous? 07:26:33 map doesn't need to know anything about a or b, just about functions and lists 07:26:46 farrioth: the entire sentence is polymorphic with respect to the name 07:26:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_lAFDbnMLA#t=40s -- "what did the doge do?" 07:27:01 what does the doge say 07:27:22 ok there are like 100 youtube videos with that name, surprise 07:28:00 ais523: Ah, you're talking about generics, right? I was thinking about overloaded operators. 07:28:16 right 07:28:24 operator overloading's like the opposite of polymorphism, though 07:28:31 an overloaded operator does different things with different arguments 07:28:39 Are generics really ambiguous, though? 07:28:55 perhaps not 07:29:04 although, in my line of work, polymorphism tends to cause a lot of troubles 07:29:12 I can't create a circuit to implement a program without knowing what types it works on 07:29:29 Assuming we are defining ambiguity as (non-trivial) context dependance in meaning/function, or something like that. 07:33:34 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 07:34:47 So, thinking about the syntax of NL-like programming languages again, if L1 causes negative transfer (interferance) then we would expect it to also have the potential to cause positive transfer (learning advantages). I wonder if this is borne out for NL-like languages. 07:35:14 More importantly, I wonder if anyone's studied this. 07:38:53 there's probably some managerial type research on cobol since it was a conscious factor in its design and all. 07:40:50 That's a good point. 07:41:34 I think advantages are possible when trying to *read* the program, perhaps. 07:42:23 zzo38: For someone familiar with the language, or only for someone unfamiliar with it? 07:42:57 zzo38: Being, myself, not familiar enough with a NL-like language to answer that. 07:43:38 zzo38: I agree it is a possibility, but if such advantages exist, why don't they apply to writing too? 07:43:47 farrioth: For someone who is somewhat familiar with it, but not quite, I mean. 07:44:03 zzo38: Yep. 07:44:52 zzo38: There's probably an interaction between receptive/expressive use and positive/negative interference. 07:45:19 zzo38: But I'm not familiar enough with the acquisition literature to know if that is the case for NL. 07:47:53 I don't know about that either. 07:49:49 shachaf: I read more of _Stories of Your Life and Others_ 07:49:52 good stuff 07:49:56 I guess I'm on the last story now 07:50:01 what was even in that book 07:50:14 oh 07:50:21 now i remember 07:50:27 isn't the last story the one you already read 07:51:28 Incedentally, what NL-like programming languages exist? Inform 7, COBOL and derivatives, and AppleScript come to mind. 07:51:43 Perligata, if you want an esolang 07:52:02 farrioth: I was thinking of a kind of "hybrid" system where the input looks like natural language kind of, with various extra marks too, and then when printed out, the marks mean different things and would print out like a natural language, with the correct bold and italics formatting and symbols and that stuff too. 07:52:15 Perl itself was also intentionally designed on natural language principles 07:52:21 farrioth: I am not so familiar with COBOL but I could try to look up a bit 07:52:25 it's probably more natural-language like than the other languages you mention 07:52:31 this copy has an extra story I guess? "The Lifecycle of Software Objects" 07:52:32 it just doesn't /look/ like one 07:52:43 zzo38: That sounds confusing. 07:52:46 ais523: Really? 07:52:55 well, wall was a linguist, right. 07:53:02 farrioth: Larry Wall, who invented Perl, was a linguist (as in, natural linguist) 07:53:06 Although I think COBOL is OK actually from what I can see 07:53:09 and applied the same principles 07:53:24 this is why Perl has an ambiguous grammar, and the parser sometimes has to guess, for instance 07:53:25 oh 07:53:27 have no read 07:53:31 not 07:53:34 is it good 07:53:40 i have written one COBOL program https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/1ca57f7a260c72d36d96 07:53:48 apparently it was published in 2010 07:53:48 shachaf: i don't know I didn't read it yet!! 07:53:55 your face was published in 2010 07:53:58 farrioth: It sounds confusing a bit, but... do you play Magic: the Gathering cards? It would help to understand my ideas about this thing I am mentioning 07:53:59 ais523: Surely it's the linguists who would first realise the pitfalls of NL-likeness? And that does explain why PERL is good at text processing and things that linguists actually want to do with a computer. 07:54:32 of course, snobol was also designed for text processing and linguists and is pretty much nothing like natural language at all 07:54:32 farrioth: then why does Perl have such poor support for syntax trees compared to, say Lisp? 07:54:43 zzo38: I played Magic years ago, but remember it a bit, except for all the new cards, obviously. 07:55:04 kmc: well obviously it was a deferred question to be answered after you read it!! 07:55:05 kmc: still a good program after all these years 07:55:09 thx 07:55:14 kmc: That's a good question? 07:55:18 kmc: you should see Perl 6's support for syntax trees 07:55:26 it's some of the heftiest I've ever seen in a language 07:55:30 kmc: Minus the question mark, that is. 07:55:32 some of it's making its way into Perl 5 libraries, too 07:55:38 Perl seems like "hey awk and sed and shell are all useful, let's make a language that does all that" 07:55:43 and nothing more principled than that 07:55:50 Perl *is* still a really good awk/sed/shell replacement 07:55:51 i heard perl gets scoping right 07:55:53 farrioth: That is good enough, as long as you have seen how many newer cards (past Alpha or something) are often seeming to use a common syntax so they are worded in very similar ways. 07:55:58 better than, say, python or ruby 07:56:11 so maybe i should learn it 07:56:14 Perl just lets you do what you like in terms of scope 07:56:20 it has lexical scope and dynamic scope 07:56:27 and the ability to inject things into other scopes 07:56:28 snobol gets scoping right. it has no scoping. learn snobol 07:56:32 all under user control 07:56:33 COBOL may be at approx. the correct "compromise" between programming and natural language, for its application, it seems like; especially from kmc's program it looks like that 07:56:40 oh, and two different sorts of global 07:56:41 zzo38: Sort of, but some examples (pictures of cards?) would be nice. 07:56:42 thanks kmc. 07:56:43 >_____> 07:56:54 mauke was being convincing about maybe i should learn perl 07:56:58 `seen mauke ever 07:57:17 (the very globalliest globals have names starting with a dollar followed by a control character, you normally type them as ${^Example} but you could use a literal control-E and omit the braces if you really wanted to) 07:57:24 zzo38: but it's only "natural language" in that you have to write several long keywords instead of a curly brace 07:57:26 actually i don't think he was trying to convince anyone but maybe i'll do it anyway 07:57:27 2011-09-03 07:36:50: when things would be ambiguous otherwise 07:57:30 how is that an improvement on anything 07:57:34 i learned a little bit of perl. so many little symbols to know. so hard to read code. 07:57:57 much symbols 07:58:01 very punctuation 07:58:06 i want a language based on machina carnis 07:58:07 well, Perl tends to have good mnemonics for the weird punctuation combinations 07:58:07 wow 07:58:16 ais523: or there's that English module 07:58:19 which just gives them good names 07:58:30 kmc: I actually prefer the short names 07:58:35 you may ask what the fuck, to which i respond, what your fuck 07:58:36 $_ is basically just a pronoun 07:58:48 a good English name for it would be close to $it 07:58:53 how about $hit 07:59:07 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 07:59:17 actually this explains why @_ is used for procedure argument 07:59:23 kmc: Well, things are easily enough to understand if you know some things about programming, even if not knowing the programming language; and yes the way that it is only "natural language" in the way you specified, is what I mean by a good way I think so. For example I can easily see what all the divisions mean, and could easily guess what "WITH NO ADVANCING" means. 07:59:25 because its meaning is not too far from "them", and the @ indicates a plural 08:00:00 -!- Bike has joined. 08:00:02 intriguing new research suggests i am a dumbass 08:00:42 ais523: Perl is starting to look more NLy than I thought. 08:00:50 @ made sense to me. cuz i used it to make @rrays 08:00:50 farrioth: You can look up pictures (or even just text) of cards pretty easily, but I can even just type some card texts here too. 08:01:07 one good example is slicing arrays 08:01:26 zzo38: Give me some cards to look up, or type here, your preference. 08:01:26 if I have an array, say @a, then if I take one element from it, I get $a[2], and if I take two, I get @a[2,3], for instance 08:01:31 zzo38: Or message me if they're long. 08:01:50 zzo38: yes it's true, 'WITH NO ADVANCING' is more clear than e.g. a trailing comma in Python 2 08:01:51 the sigil at the start reflects whether I'm producing a single or plural quantity 08:01:51 The card "Recuperate" says: Choose one--You gain 6 life; or prevent the next 6 damage that would be dealt to target creater this turn. The card "Drifting Meadow" has three abilities; the first is: Drifting Meadow comes into play tapped. 08:02:05 zzo38: however I don't think one should optimize a language to be read by people who don't know the language 08:02:07 it's not part of the array itself; Perl uses the square brackets to know that I mean an array @a rather than a scalar $a 08:02:24 zzo38: there are some tradeoffs of course; the trailing comma in Python is also bad and special (and gone in Python 3) 08:02:25 * Bike applies what ais is saying to matlab in order to amuse himself 08:02:58 kmc: I agree. 08:02:59 kmc: And in BASIC you use a trailing semicolon. And yes I agree with you in general that you don't think one should optimize a language to be read by people who don't know the language; I am simply saying there are such cases, and COBOL is one of them, due to its intended applications especially. 08:03:00 Bike: I saw someone editing some Matlab code on Friday 08:03:05 ais523: i'm sorry 08:03:08 kmc: (Re the optimisation.) 08:03:11 but originally assumed it was Objective C because of the file extension 08:03:19 Bike: are you opposed to matlab 08:03:21 and got very confused 08:03:24 Objective Matlab++ 08:03:25 ais523: yeah emacs does that too 08:03:26 quintopia: yes 08:03:30 matlab-- 08:03:38 i love that Objective C++ is a real language supported by GCC and not an esolang joke 08:03:55 farrioth: The phrase "comes into play tapped" can be considered a phrase by the parser; the card name could be entered "~" and treated as a phrase by the parser too, while the prettyprinter can expand it to the card's name. 08:03:56 oh okay. well i like it as a language. it's great for doing linalg 08:04:33 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:04:33 it's got a good ide and it has useful linalg features i haven't seen elsewhere but i hate everything else about it. 08:04:41 anyway, lots of people get confused by what the sigils mean in Perl 08:04:58 zzo38: I see. Remind me what the relevance of this is though? I've forgotten. 08:05:02 especially because most tutorials start off with "$ means scalar, @ means array", and then people assume they should use @ to refer to an array if they're indexing it 08:05:14 so the natural-language-likeness of it is simply just confusing 08:05:25 like a real natural language! 08:05:30 farrioth: I think zzo38 considers Magic card text to be a programming language 08:05:42 farrioth: You can do an "almost natural language", is what I mean 08:05:48 it's pretty close already (and has only become more so because of Magic Online) 08:05:50 ais523: To program Magic players? 08:05:58 farrioth: if you like 08:06:22 who can tell me things about that one category where objects are categories and arrows are adjunctions 08:06:29 zzo38: As in, Magic cards are NL-like, but arguably not really NL because they are formulaic? 08:06:36 since it's a game it's more like a protocol language than a programming language? 08:06:47 farrioth: that does seem to be the way the TM works. of course, the hard part is leaving all the players with only one possible move so that they have to cooperate. 08:06:52 other formulaic NL text: laws & contracts; math papers 08:06:56 it will be a sad day when i know anything about magic 08:07:02 also, there's that proof that Magic is Turing-complete 08:07:08 farrioth: Something like that, yes. Not *exactly*, which is why I think such a "hybrid" approach is better 08:07:14 ais523: What? 08:07:30 although the current setup requires all players to do something other than nothing when the game gives them a choice 08:07:43 zzo38: What are you approaching? 08:07:55 the periphery shield of vortex four 08:08:10 Take an approach which allows entry in a way somewhat better for programming it while still working well for displaying too; for example, text in parentheses is a comment printed in italics (the parentheses are printed too); text in square brackets is a comment but is printed as is except the brackets are omitted; text in [- ... -] is Haskell code which isn't printed; ~ is printed as the card name; =s after a word is a plural; etc 08:08:17 farrioth: http://www.toothycat.net/~hologram/Turing/HowItWorks.html 08:08:33 ais523: do you expect it is possible to remove the "do nothing" option from every single turn? 08:08:45 I had a small contribution to that (pointing out that an older version of the setup was wrong due to confusion caused by Wolfram propaganda) 08:08:53 quintopia: that's the major unsolved problem atm 08:09:00 I think it may be possible, but it'd require a different setup 08:09:11 it is a v. popular game at my current workplace 08:09:11 (You would only use =s at the end for plurals of subtypes (rather than keywords), so something like "Desrtoy all Cat=s." instead of "Destroy all Cats." 08:09:19 basically the problem is that there are so few phasing-related cards, and it's quite hard to replace phasing in the setup 08:09:25 my dad wanted me to read a contract based on "you're a mathy guy" or somesuch 08:09:26 so i have played it a little bit and i even have, uh, a few hundred cards or something 08:09:33 (But, "Draw 3 cards." (not "Draw 3 card=s.").) 08:09:33 my dad is an authority on all matters, so kmc is right 08:09:44 hmm, I wonder if zzo38 would like grammartree 08:11:04 zzo38: What is the application of such a language? 08:11:51 farrioth: In order to create Magic: the Gathering cards, so that you can both generate the pictures of the cards (such as to print out) and to run them on a computer program. 08:11:56 quintopia: oh right, the main complication is that all the currently known cards that force spells to be cast with no decisions by anyone trigger at particular points in a turn 08:12:05 meaning that you can't set everything up entirely in one turn 08:12:14 unless you know of a way to produce infinitely many upkeep steps? 08:12:17 in one turn? 08:12:37 zzo38: Ah, that makes sense. But if they're so formulaic already, why not just make a parser which can understand them? 08:12:56 zzo38: Perhaps with extensions to allow you to describe difficult-to-parse cards. 08:13:05 you know what's really annoying. when you're reading a book and there's a typo of an open bracket or something so the whole rest of the book is quoted 08:14:31 farrioth: There are things like using ~ for "this card" and stuff too, and to make the parsing work more simplified and working better; there are those and other reasons why I think it would be improvement to *not* enter them as "pure natural language" but rather to *almost* do it. 08:14:55 (Anyways, using ~ in such a way is already common when entering card texts) 08:15:15 zzo38: I think Wizards write it as "CARDNAME" internally 08:15:42 zzo38: Sure, but a parser doesn't need to care about the difference between "~" and "this card". 08:15:47 ais523: Yes and it can be programmed to support that too (or instead) if done 08:16:16 there should be an esolang named Heptapod B 08:16:21 farrioth: well, "this card" doesn't work, because then the card would stop working if someone made a token copy of it 08:16:22 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:16:30 farrioth: Wrong. Both the parser and the printer need to care. The printer so that it can display the card's name properly, and the parser in case it is in a quoted ability. 08:16:30 it'd have to be "this permanent" (or the appropriate for abilities that trigger in other zones) 08:16:57 oh, hey, kmc's reading /that/ 08:17:10 Bike: well I read that story a while ago, but it's in a book with some others 08:17:16 oh 08:17:20 some of which I read today 08:17:21 ais523: Could you explain, please? 08:17:24 well i hven't remembered it anyway 08:17:27 k 08:17:37 farrioth: it's just a rules technicality: a token isn't a card 08:17:40 wow that wasn't even a coherent thought 08:17:41 ais523: Actually I think the rules specify that in such cases it does actually still work 08:17:43 zzo38: But it doesn't matter what name you give the token. 08:18:00 zzo38: huh, really? if so then it's a specific weird special case 08:18:04 ais523: Oh, tokens have a meaning in Magic. That's right. 08:18:07 kmc: today i wore a wristband with some text on it 08:18:21 i read the text out loud and then said "would be a good name for a band" 08:18:32 :) 08:18:33 It doesn't mean it has to be a card. In the example syntax I gave you could even enter it as "this [card]" rather than "this card" if you *do* need literally "this card" on the card, then it would make the parser easier and more sensible. 08:18:36 but was it? 08:18:55 it was kind of long and awkward 08:19:17 also i said it to Gracenotes so ask him 08:19:44 i liked the part in the one story where gur xnoonyvfg thl vairagf gur l pbzovangbe 08:19:59 i agree 08:20:20 hmm i only vaguely remember that story 08:20:26 zzo38: btw, you might be interested in http://www.toothycat.net/wiki/bnf.pl?page=AlexChurchill/MagicCardGenerator , which works using a parser for Magic card text; it runs the parser /backwards/ to produce legal cards 08:20:49 often not very sensible ones, though 08:21:42 For example: Enchanted permanent gains "{T}: Destroy ~." Therefore the ~ should be treated as the timestamp of the card it is printed on at the time when the effect containing the ~ is used, it will make ~ into that card's timestamp. 08:22:00 ais523: Hah, nice. 08:22:04 "tap up to four target permanents and tap those permanents" 08:22:18 anyway, I liked the discussion before it got derailed by Magic 08:22:28 ais523: Me too. 08:22:55 jesus christ yes nerds 08:23:14 I wonder if var'aq is considered natrualistic. 08:23:25 anyway, I can't think of any programming language more natural-language-like than Perl, in terms of semantics rather than syntax 08:23:34 except Perligata, which puts natural language syntax onto Perl 08:23:37 Yes, you also should parse phrases like "up to " and "those" and so on. 08:23:41 in addition to matching the grammatical behaviour up 08:23:55 ais523: Perligata isn't more natural-language-like than Perl, in terms of semantics rather than syntax. 08:24:03 "To assign a value to a variable you must first push the value, then the name of the variable onto the stack. To push the name of a variable instead of its value, the spec tells you to use lI'moH operator. The cher operator can then be used to bind the value to the variable name." eh 08:24:09 shachaf: right, it's mostly just syntax 08:24:23 very disappointed that this artigcle isn't written in klingon 08:24:23 Bike: like Underload but with pointers? 08:24:42 "Humanity confuses more destructively than the awesome language" 08:24:56 huh, MagicCardGenerator produced insightful and ontopic flavour text 08:25:41 ais523: Perhaps PERL is quite NL-like in terms of semantics. Interesting, as I was thinking only about syntax (and lexicon, I suppose) to begin with. 08:26:10 `quote 152 08:26:12 152) syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python 08:26:16 ais523: Which raises the question of how many of the languages mentioned are really naturalistic syntactically rather than just lexically. 08:26:28 my guess is, not many 08:26:34 Mine too. 08:27:09 I think the experience of Perl shows that people tend to dislike naturalistics in their programming languages 08:27:25 ais523: Wait, was that actually flavour text? You had me thinking it was from the var'aq page. We should probably add it in. 08:27:26 As it turns out I also wrote a program to make up random Magic: the Gathering card texts, although very incomplete 08:27:28 I'd rather play Sandwich: The Card Game. 08:27:40 me too 08:27:41 Hmm. 08:27:43 farrioth: it was flavour text generated by that random magic card generator 08:27:44 `quote sandwich 08:27:46 185) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 683) There.... is a box of Gardasil next to the butter in my fridge. At least my sandwich will be immune to cervical cancer *and* genital warts, I suppose. 08:27:48 Sandwich - The Card Game 08:28:02 how many octopus quotes do we have 08:28:05 `quote octopus 08:28:07 185) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 214) ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could m 08:28:09 http://videogamena.me/ 08:28:16 `pastequotes octopus 08:28:16 `run quote octopus | shuf 08:28:18 185) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 214) ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could m 08:28:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27447 08:28:24 ais523: What was the name of the card it went with? 08:28:26 two. well, almost acceptable 08:28:32 Bike: just two 08:28:40 farrioth: there wasn't one, it doesn't generate names 08:28:46 I would also like to play Professional Octopus of the World. 08:28:49 i shall make a note to talk about octopuses at least once a day 08:28:51 I forgot to copy-paste the attribution 08:29:05 zzo38: Has anyone invented either of those games yet? 08:29:11 ais523: You're right. 08:29:12 so: what's the deal with being smart even though they don't use myelination?? 08:29:33 Bike: they have really really thick nerves to compensate 08:29:41 yes, assholes 08:29:42 like, they're measured in centimetres 08:29:51 a centimetre-wide cell is mindboggling 08:30:01 nobody tell ais about slime mold. 08:30:11 squid giant axons are 1 mm, though. 08:30:14 Haha. 08:30:15 dunno what you're thinking of 08:30:22 "this slime mold juice is delicious!" 08:30:30 Bike: probably I was just off by an order of magnitude 08:30:38 great, now i'm actually wondering what cytoplasm tastes like 08:30:49 probably not very good, generally 08:31:01 it probably tastes much like water 08:31:06 because it mostly is water 08:31:08 or, well 08:31:20 if you blend pretty much any organic material, there's going to be cytoplasm in there 08:31:22 some cells are pretty much more proteins than water. 08:31:28 but it's not the main contributing factor to the taste 08:31:33 you get weird hydrodynamics. 08:31:37 also, protein tastes of protein 08:32:06 what was my nethack fruit called, anyway 08:32:07 maybe i'll just down some blood plasma 08:32:18 mine was 'schizocarp', ia m the opposite of creative 08:32:39 oh, beautiful: this random card costs 4, flips into a 1/1 when there are at least 2 lands in play, and gives itself +1/-1 08:32:45 good luck trying to use /that/ thing 08:32:51 shachaf: I don't think someone invented those game and I don't really intend 08:33:10 shachaf: I use "avocado" locally, just because I wanted a real fruit that probably wasn't in the game already 08:33:14 I don't think I've ever eaten one 08:33:19 normally I just leave it at the default online, though 08:33:29 -!- constant has changed nick to variable. 08:34:00 hm mauthner cells are also huge but fish are vertebrates. how vexing 08:34:56 now I'm wondering if there are any organisms with bones but not backbones 08:35:39 no. backbones evolved before bones. 08:35:49 assuming you don't count things like cuttlebones. 08:36:25 'bone' could mean any number of things, i suppose~ 08:37:01 i don't understand 08:37:06 nethack lets you name fruits? 08:37:12 quintopia: one specific fruit 08:37:15 has a customizable name 08:37:32 it's normally just called "fruit" when people are talking about it, or sometimes "slime mold" after the default value 08:38:48 Gross 08:40:39 btw, a while back I was working on a natural language deparser in order to make NetHack produce better messages 08:40:53 as in, it did substitutions at the natural language parse tree level, rather than the textual level 08:41:04 and add in pronouns, etc. 08:41:14 but it was never finished, and we temporarily abandoned it so that we could get actual work done 08:42:05 ais523: Do you have the code around still? 08:42:25 farrioth: yes 08:42:33 farrioth: How's your interpreter coming along? 08:42:58 farrioth: https://gitorious.org/nitrohack/ais523/source/36824d7535d3ac7614875de4ec7559358d1860b1:libnethack_intl 08:43:22 although note that we think there may be problems in the model of natural language it uses 08:43:34 in fact, it sort-of collapsed into design-by-committee as to what those should be 08:44:08 farrioth: also there's some documentation in https://gitorious.org/nitrohack/ais523/source/36824d7535d3ac7614875de4ec7559358d1860b1:doc/grammar.txt 08:44:21 ais523: so the idea would be to store language models for each language? and then construct the messages from the tree after substitution? and hope the model is good enough the result comes out grammatically correct? 08:44:32 quintopia: that's it, basically 08:44:57 mroman: I have most of a Tape class and a DistortionMap class, but haven't done any work since yesterday since I had food poisoning. I do plan to work on it more, though. 08:44:59 the tree used tokens to represent words, which were mostly the same as the word in English, except that if there were two homographs in English they'd have different tokens in grammartree 08:45:11 ais523: Thanks, I'll take a look some time. 08:45:50 ais523: grammartree? is this the thing you were above wondering if zzo38 would like? 08:45:54 it was illuminating learning about the special cases in English 08:45:55 quintopia: yes 08:46:17 also, I wasn't planning to cover all of English 08:46:21 just the subset that NetHack uses 08:46:24 mroman: I though about re-implementing it in R since the inherent vectorisation would make applying distortion easier, but decided I don't know R well enough to do that sort of thing in it at present. 08:47:00 farrioth: also letting it be in python means i can create a module for it for my upcoming universal IDE :D :D: D 08:47:52 quintopia: Cool. 08:48:16 quintopia: How is your said universal IDE coming along? 08:49:07 farrioth: well it's mainly to help me learn python and tk. i have figured out how to do menu of the things i need it to do already, though i am not sure about the current problem i'm trying to solve 08:49:15 s/menu/many/ 08:49:54 quintopia: What is the current problem? And why TK, by the way? 08:50:58 farrioth: those two questions should not be answered concurrently as they are very different discussions 08:51:04 farrioth: which do you want to start with 08:54:21 quintopia: Let's start with the current problem. 08:54:43 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 08:54:44 quintopia: And I should mention that I'm currently cooking, so may respond slowly. 08:59:00 farrioth: let's say that every language stores its UI and interpreter in a module which defines a class (implementing a specific abstract class), and all these modules are just stored in some folder. without any further config files, i want the IDE to be load these modules as needed in association with source files of the language they are for. 08:59:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:59:44 i have read about using __import__, but i'm not sure what i should do to make sure I am keeping around an instance of the class loaded from the module 09:00:04 how do you get an instance of a class you don't know the name of until you have loaded the module? 09:01:00 i suppose since i know the abstract class it implemented, i could find a class definition in the loaded namespace that claims to inherit from that class? 09:02:06 or should i eschew __import__ and use execfile instead, creating a namespace for the exec'd file from the info about the IDE it needs? 09:02:36 but the latter may introduce problems with destruction of the classes so loaded, and so i go in circles 09:05:42 quintopia: What are the classes defined in each module being used for? Do they define the UI and interpreter? 09:05:58 farrioth: yes. 09:07:27 hmm i have an idea 09:07:41 quintopia: Just give them generic names like UI and Interpreter, you won't get a conflict assuming that you're only using one language at a time. 09:07:58 quintopia: Or, if using multiple languages, they will be in different instances. 09:08:26 farrioth: explain that last? 09:08:42 because yes it will be possible to have several different language types loaded at once 09:10:53 quintopia: You will have multiple editors or whatever, one for each language, and can set the active language individually for each editor. 09:10:54 Recently lots of people have food poisoning o_O 09:11:54 quintopia: import befunge 09:12:00 quintopia: UI = befunge.UI 09:12:05 quintopia: And so forth. 09:15:06 farrioth: but i won't know there is a module named befunge 09:15:26 quintopia: or UI = befunge.UI() if you want to make an instance of it. 09:15:48 farrioth: it will look more like: for all i,files in enumerate(folder): ns[i] = __import(file)__ 09:16:19 how do i create an instance in my namespace from something defined in another namespace? 09:17:11 quintopia: Oh, I misunderstood you, I assumed that you didn't know that you needed a module called befunge, not that a module called befunge existed. 09:20:09 also i misplaced some underscores there whoops 09:22:01 kmc: now i remember it 09:22:15 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:27:13 quintopia: I would have used exec("import %s"%i) but that might be considered improper. 09:28:26 quintopia: But presumably you'll only use a language module on filetype identification or when a user requests it, so there's no point importing them on enumeration. 09:28:41 farrioth: sure. righto. 09:29:05 farrioth: but i was thinking of enumerating them to extract the filetype/module associations 09:29:18 so i know what filetypes i support 09:30:11 s/type/extension 09:31:54 I've actually got a Nigerian Finance Minister spam 09:32:55 quintopia: I would have just stored that information separately, but that does mean you have to maintain a central list of them. 09:33:37 quintopia: You could make a function which enumerates everything and writes a file containing filetype associations, so that you only have to enumerate when a new language module is added. 09:39:08 Taneb: bite the hook. coax a picture out of them. 09:39:17 quintopia, can't be bothered 09:40:54 farrioth: yes that is doable, but i'm still iterating the files to find one newer than the associations file every time i start. would it be all that faster than just rebuilding the table each time? 09:43:05 quintopia: I was thinking to only rebuild the table when requested. 09:43:49 quintopia: Plus you wouldn't have to do a complete rebuild, only add in the new definitions, so it probably would be faster, but perhaps only marginally. 09:44:03 quintopia: How many languages do you have defined so far / expect to have defined? 10:00:17 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:16:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:19:30 Natural language programming at its best/worst: http://system-english.com/?page=sepapers 10:21:06 OSMOSIAAAAN! 10:24:33 There's already lolcode 10:24:43 that's practically natural language programming 10:25:21 only for cats 10:25:28 Haha, good point. 10:25:58 I mean 10:26:13 yeah 10:26:33 -!- qlkzy_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 10:27:05 It probably actually qualifies as much as COBOL or AppleScript, except for its limited number of instructions. 10:28:05 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:28:06 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:28:36 -!- ineiros has joined. 10:29:13 -!- qlkzy has joined. 10:32:33 farrioth: WhO kNoWs?? 10:32:49 InFiNiTeLy MaNy 10:34:09 -!- qlkzy has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 10:35:14 -!- qlkzy has joined. 10:36:01 quintopia: Personally, as a user, I'd prefer to call Update Language Definitions if/when I install a new language module, rather than have it re-enumerate every startup, but checking for new modules on startup and updating file associations then wouldn't be too bad, especially if it's done in the background. 10:37:15 quintopia: Or you could update the definitions if the IDE loads a file it doesn't recognise, since that is probably something a user will do soon after installing a new language. 10:37:28 quintopia: With an option to manually update definitions too. 10:37:31 farrioth: oh nice i like that idea 10:37:48 quintopia: If you weren't lazy you'd make it configurable, of course. 10:37:49 quintopia: Cool. 10:39:01 farrioth: you mean the file association is configurable? that's easy. since each module defines what file extension it wants, if you want to configure them, just modify the line of the associated module, and manually update definitions! 10:39:45 quintopia: No, I mean the user can choose whether the definitions get checked/updated every startup or not. 10:40:28 farrioth: oh yeah i'm probably too lazy for that :P 10:41:43 so i just realized the MTGTM page has a whole page dedicated to how all credit for anything creative anyone does actually goes to God. so...FUCK ALEX CHURCHILL. THANK GOD FOR THE MTG TM! 10:41:50 import config 10:41:50 if config.update_defs: update_defs() 10:42:06 well i could do that much 10:42:16 but i'm NOT MAKING A DAMN CONFIGURATION UI 10:43:00 Just have your config file be a python module which gets imported. Not secure, but that isn't a problem in this case. 10:43:57 -!- qlkzy has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 10:51:02 -!- qlkzy has joined. 10:51:21 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:53:59 -!- ineiros has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:55:24 -!- ineiros has joined. 10:56:02 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:00:15 -!- qlkzy has joined. 11:22:40 "perl -pe 's/^(.*)$/\L$& \U$&/g'" is there a shorter way to capitalize a string in a shell command 11:23:00 (which contains newlines0 11:24:28 hmm… what about "perl -000 -e 'print uc <>'" 11:24:32 I think that's shorter; does it work? 11:24:41 alternatively, tr a-z A-Z 11:24:48 although that one isn't Unicode-aware 11:37:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:47:19 I'm off to bed, see you all around. 11:47:27 -!- farrioth has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:50:10 -!- muskrat has joined. 11:53:55 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:57:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:14:12 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:14:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:17:50 Hi 12:21:07 `welcome Vorpal 12:21:09 Vorpal: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:22:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:54:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:37:43 anticipation error hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 13:44:12 Phantom_Helloover 13:52:09 -!- yorick has joined. 13:59:38 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:07:59 -!- carado has joined. 14:14:06 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:50:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:10:16 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:29:22 hey 15:29:41 what are the prerequisites to know before reading the homotopy type theory book? 15:32:38 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 15:38:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:38:27 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:39:03 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 15:39:03 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:39:30 -!- tromp has joined. 15:40:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:43:18 -!- conehead has joined. 16:00:06 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to [li]|Gaming. 16:00:46 quintopia: Just start reading it, and if there is anything you don't know, research it 16:03:42 i guess "topology" and "type theory" will come up quite a bit 16:05:44 The first chapter is completely about just type theory 16:06:09 Being familiar with dependent types is useful 16:15:39 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:16:15 -!- tromp has joined. 16:20:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:20:56 -!- tromp has joined. 16:22:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 16:29:21 -!- conehead has joined. 16:31:25 -!- muskrat has joined. 16:34:27 -!- muskrat has left. 16:34:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:17:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:29:37 -!- conehead has joined. 17:59:29 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:07:22 -!- tromp has joined. 18:11:01 -!- [li]|Gaming has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 18:11:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:28:12 -!- Zuu has joined. 18:29:44 -!- Zuu has changed nick to ZuuSantaClaus. 18:54:56 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 18:56:48 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:57:57 -!- tromp has joined. 18:59:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:09:16 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:09:52 -!- tromp has joined. 19:10:03 http://i.imgur.com/FbEzLiL.jpg 19:14:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:15:23 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:19:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:26:51 http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/13/youtubes-out-of-control-content-id-system-even-flagged-jonathan-blow-for-posting-footage-of-his-own-game/ 19:27:47 -!- ZuuSantaClaus has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:31:56 ion, oh wow 19:32:46 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:33:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:35:18 -!- Slereah_ has quit. 20:44:16 ion: that link just put dolphin browser into an infinite url-loading loop. i didn't even know that was possible. 20:45:10 nice 20:45:19 Sounds like quality software. 20:45:54 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:46:55 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:46:57 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:47:18 it is actually. this is the first time i've seen a bug like this in the three years i've used it 20:49:04 did they forget to limit redirect loops or something? 20:49:25 no idea 20:51:16 quintopia: It's possible to create redirect loops 20:51:53 it's browsers who should limit them :) 20:54:02 mroman: but the link above presumably worked for ion and vorpal, so i doubt that's what's going on 20:55:46 they probably didn't use dolphin 20:56:53 yes but what happens when a redirect is limited? 20:57:46 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:57:52 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:59:09 loading finishes with an error page, usually 21:00:59 i don't think they got an error page 21:01:02 well, besides 301 and friends it could also be a http refresh with a small delay, or some javascript setting window.location. 21:01:59 int-e: wouldn't the browser have to at least rate limit those as well? 21:02:57 maybe. I'm not ready to pass judgement on that ;) 21:03:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:56 quintopia: are they using dolphin too? 21:17:00 ... 21:42:03 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:10:15 -!- tromp has joined. 22:14:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:19:42 -!- muskrat has joined. 22:33:11 Someone has made up an extension of TeX for supporting multiple kind of marks on a page rather than just one kind, but I have made up a way to do it without using those extensions. In fact a large number of things can be done without any extensions. 22:41:40 -!- tromp has joined. 22:55:58 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]). 23:08:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:09:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 23:13:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:14:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:40:27 I am currently typing the Dungeons&Dragons game according to I played it yesterday 23:45:20 write some brainfuck to type it out for you. 23:45:46 less character variance and relevant! 23:46:12 I just type it manually 23:48:22 -!- mgdvoe has joined. 23:48:34 -!- mgdvoe has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:09 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:53:18 `danddreclist 46 23:53:20 danddreclist 46: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 23:54:43 Do you know the *real* reason why Kjugobe doesn't want the door for the prison cell opened? (It isn't to prevent him from escaping. He already cannot escape.) 23:55:10 he wants the prisoner to be safe 23:55:14 maybe he smells _real_ badly. 23:55:19 quintopia: No. 23:55:37 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:55:39 oerjan: No. There are bars; it isn't a plain door but rather bars so the smell would still come through. 23:56:02 hm i guess that takes care of my second guess of fire breath as well. 23:57:14 The prisoner is human and is also in a coma, so even if he has fire he cannot easily use it. 23:57:46 what would happen if the door were opened? 23:58:34 It would not affect the prisoner or cause damage to the ship if it were opened? Can you try to figure out why I didn't want it opened? 23:58:56 I can tell you if you don't know. 23:59:19 IS IT A TRAP 23:59:23 ITS A TRAP ISNT IT 23:59:49 I am pretty sure it is *not* a trap, actually, but that has nothing to do with it either. 2013-12-16: 00:00:20 well i give up 00:00:24 The door was actualyl rusted shut 00:00:28 actually too 00:00:57 FreeFull: No. (Well, maybe it is; I haven't tried. But that isn't the reason.) 00:01:45 FreeFull: he said kjugobe doesn't WANT it opened, not that it can't be opened. 00:01:45 The reason I don't want it open is that if whoever has the key is asked to open the door, due to whatever is happening, it may easily interfere with the schedules of this ship (a merchant ship) arriving and departing at certain areas. 00:02:19 zzo38: who would have guessed that. no one. 00:02:37 quintopia: Maybe if you read it, someone might have guessed? 00:03:15 i'm pretty sure no one else would have guessed on the basis of me reading 00:03:15 So the reason has nothing to do with the door itself (other than the fact that it is locked and I don't have the key). 00:03:57 But I have a way to get in anyways, despite teleportation not being allowed into and out of the cell. 00:04:08 And I have this rope and sanding block I can use in there too. 00:06:08 The prisoner's name is Shadowsteel, I think. I have almost completely broken his concentration, I think. 00:07:44 Anyways if you can read the entire story and still don't understand, then maybe you aren't good enough at this game? 00:12:58 -!- tromp has joined. 00:17:46 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:25:53 -!- Zuu has joined. 00:27:15 ohhhh cold burn from the zzoster 00:27:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:35:14 quintopia: What does that mean? 00:37:58 zzo38: never mind 00:40:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:49:52 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to [li]|Gaming. 00:51:55 `cat bin/seen 00:51:57 ​#! /usr/bin/env perl \ ($n,$e)=split /\s+/, join(" ",@ARGV); $n=~s/ *$//; $c="ls -r /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt"; $c.=" | head -n 30" unless $e eq "ever"; @f=split /\s+/, `$c`; for $f (@f) { open F,"<$f"; @l=grep(/^..:..:..: <$n>/i,); close F; if (@l) { $b=$f; $b=~s#.*/(.*?).txt#$1#; print "$b $l[-1]"; exit 1; } } print $e eq "ever 00:54:30 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:01:22 should co(cartesian closed) be called cocartesian coclosed or coclosed cocartesian 01:01:30 "the important questions" 01:01:53 the dual of a cartesian closed space 01:02:18 help what's a cartesian closed space 01:02:29 category whatever 01:02:30 nerd 01:03:19 open cocartesian 01:15:48 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:18:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:21:41 -!- tromp has joined. 01:26:39 -!- Zuu has left. 01:35:53 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:19 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:55:26 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:57:59 -!- [li]|Gaming has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 02:07:07 b_jonas: https://github.com/int-e/zeckendorf now deals with trailing zeros and has truncating subtraction for zeckendorf numbers (e.g. [] - [1] = []) 02:08:07 yay zeckendorf 02:14:35 good dorf 02:14:40 up there with haus and ganon 02:15:41 can we talk about dorps instead 02:15:46 like nieuw dorp 02:22:07 that's the only dorp, except for a south african musical group based in london 02:22:39 guess there's no oud dorp 02:22:59 several nieuw dorps but which one is the nieuwest 02:24:55 the one that isn't built yet 02:25:46 http://np.reddit.com/r/Physics/comments/1svri5/ive_solved_the_theory_of_everything_try_and_prove/ce1pd2n 02:25:58 the actual fuck is this. 02:26:01 int-e: does NegaZeckendorf just use -1,-2,-3 etc. 02:26:26 LinearInterpol, you're oko right 02:26:30 from the title it looks like a stellar example of fractured ceramics 02:26:35 Phantom_Hoover: nope. 02:26:42 it appears to be garbage, LinearInterpol 02:26:48 "Gravity (which doesn't actually exist) is n=0" 02:26:53 u fokin wot 02:26:54 quintopia: 1 -1 2 -3 5 -8 13 etc; the signs alternate. (or, more easily, you use the fibonacci numbers with negative indices, F_{-1},F_{-2},...) 02:26:59 LinearInterpol, that's precisely the response i'd expect from oko, see 02:27:12 check my host, I don't know who oko is. :P 02:27:49 HMMMM 02:28:02 i'd put nothing past him/you 02:28:11 int-e: that would have been my second guess 02:28:14 i trustirth him a long time ago 02:28:36 I don't know who the hell "oko" is. 02:28:40 -!- kmc has set topic: [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat | But I see you on the other side? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 02:29:02 oklofok: LinearInterpol doesn't know who you are! 02:29:12 lol. 02:29:33 > [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat 02:29:34 [Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Jus... 02:29:49 " I don't think I've ever eaten one" you've never eaten an avocado? you should they're awesome 02:29:51 17 is beyond our reach 02:30:27 the actual fuck is this. <-- standard 5.5 f crank, tin covered 02:30:28 what oklofok said 02:30:46 oerjan: f is for? 02:30:54 oklofok, why are you pretending to be LinearInterpol pretending to not be you 02:31:23 because I'm actually oklofok. 02:31:25 obv 02:31:33 THEN WHO WAS PHONE 02:31:50 quintopia: feet, duh 02:31:52 quintopia: yes. 02:32:04 (cranks always use imperial, being mainly us engineers) 02:32:10 oklofok was also phone 02:32:59 screw imperial units. 02:33:12 LinearInterpol: why are you now pretending to be not oklofok who is pretending to be oklofok 02:33:14 okokokokokokokokokokoko 02:33:34 but I'm not oklofok 02:33:40 (we can do this all day) 02:33:52 * oklofok is leaving to france in a few hours 02:33:54 no you cannot, i'll ban you on the fifth iteration or so 02:34:08 b-b-but 02:34:33 you guys being so silly 02:34:43 LinearInterpol: i will hex you to read all further instances of the word "cannot" as "carrot" 02:34:44 oklofok: bon voyage, Mr. Oskari 02:34:47 you will SUFFER 02:35:00 you monster. 02:35:23 oklofok, why would you go to france 02:35:26 it's full of french 02:35:42 yeah 02:35:55 it's horrrrrrrible 02:36:37 if only boily were here to warn him 02:36:50 boily would warn him in french 02:36:56 does oklofok speak the francais 02:36:59 no 02:37:08 quintopia: precisely what's needed to scare some sense into him! 02:37:20 oerjan: it does sound right dreadful 02:37:33 i speak spanish well enough to buy beer, pizza and pants though 02:37:33 oklofok: what's in france for you 02:37:51 i'm going to talk about some stuff we did in chile last week 02:38:00 donde est mi pantalones. 02:38:01 oh 02:38:07 who's paying you 02:38:37 we did some percolation theory stuff and just after i send the abstract to france, we found out that the guy whose book we had been using published an article about the exact same thing 02:38:49 por qué la cervez in mi pantalones 02:38:50 donde están mis pantalones 02:38:51 isn't it? 02:39:00 (i don't know if he has all our results, but probably he has most of them) 02:39:11 i'm being paid by the university people 02:39:17 well i guess its an idea whose time has come 02:39:19 this thing http://perso.ens-lyon.fr/nathalie.aubrun/DySyCo.html#program 02:39:36 Do you have a spell to make caster refuse to visit France? (it is one of the spells in ifMUD, I think) 02:40:11 no 02:40:15 unfortunately my mana pool is empty 02:40:31 what would even be the point of that, if i don't want to go to france i can do that without a spell 02:40:53 quintopia: everyone in the CA community is suddenly doing some sort of probabilistic stuff 02:41:12 so yeah basically 02:41:14 oklofok: a highly unlikely coincidence! 02:41:28 oerjan: probably 02:42:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:42:07 may have to do with the fact that lots of people in the CA community (not me) seem to think that there are not that many new things to do 02:42:17 "Characterizing complexity and computability classes with polynomial ordinary differential equations." oh hey, neat. 02:42:28 is that one of the talks 02:42:43 it's in the link, yeah. 02:43:03 that does sound cool 02:43:15 i've seen a few papers on it, i don't remember if bournez was on them 02:43:49 he has four different cvs 02:44:10 oh, yeah, he did. write papers i've read probably i mean 02:44:30 "Computability and computational complexity of the evolution of nonlinear dynamical systems" "Computation with perturbed dynamical systems" etc etc 02:44:50 omg our reading someone's paper / cotalking in a conference distance is at most 2. 02:45:31 does anyone know off the top of their heads the computational complexity of the problem "does there exist a planar embedding of G with at most k edge crossings?" 02:46:09 well i just think they're kind of neat. i looked up an obscure paper of shannon's in a real physical library because of them 02:47:25 quintopia: sounds like a very basic question in parametrized complexity 02:47:33 another hot topic afaiu 02:47:55 (i have no idea what the answer is) 02:48:33 okay maybe the planar makes it very possible that there's no paper on this 02:49:18 also my answer probably requires that the problem of checking whether there's an embedding with at most k crossings is np-hard if k is given as input 02:49:38 which i don't actually know 02:51:52 " oklofok: bon voyage, Mr. Oskari" btw you're right 02:53:36 *MWAHAHAHA* 02:55:38 mr. Öör Andersson Jan 02:56:04 i am one of the few people of my age in the family not to have a middle name, i think. 02:56:20 oopse i looked at reddit.com/r/haskell again 02:56:28 :'( 02:56:44 at least this particular monad tutorial is at a negative score so i guess i can't complain about it saying wrong things 02:57:03 shachaf: just read the 24 days posts hth 02:57:26 oerjan: do you still have that hth disabler script thing 02:57:30 sure 02:57:49 /r/monadtutorials 02:58:25 i like how this section is called "definiton" 02:58:27 i 02:58:35 "definition" 02:59:42 b_jonas: and now there's even a bunch of comments. I think that's it for this year. 03:00:01 definitons, the force carriers of the strong monadic action 03:00:30 `seen b_jonas 03:00:35 2013-12-14 23:08:46: nope, http://caniuse.com/ doesn't mentino these 03:00:49 the mentino is another rarely mentioned particle 03:02:32 @tell b_jonas I've extended https://github.com/int-e/zeckendorf to deal with trailing zeros, subtracting a larger from a smaller number (which will result in 0 for Zeckendorf numbers) and a bunch of comments. Enjoy! 03:02:32 Consider it noted. 03:03:36 oerjan: you should disable the hth disabler script 03:03:41 oerjan: i miss the hthful days 03:05:08 hateful? 03:05:25 oklofok: it is NP-complete 03:05:41 hth leads to suffering 03:06:09 oklofok: but there are efficient approximation algorithms for graphs of bounded degree 03:06:20 i'm sure there are 03:07:50 is https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~plragde/papers/hlayer_ESA.ps related 03:09:22 http://dist.ist.tugraz.at/cape5/why.html 03:09:41 how does one disable hths 03:11:25 i think elliott wrote a script 03:12:14 okay gtg, love you guys lol tihihi <3 03:12:15 -!- oklofok has quit. 03:14:56 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 03:15:07 "The only known results are that the free Heyting algebra on one generator is infinite, and that the free complete Heyting algebra on one generator exists (and has one more element than the free Heyting algebra)." 03:25:17 shachaf: wat 03:25:53 oerjan: ? 03:26:02 known results about what 03:26:19 i already closed the page 03:26:24 @google "has one more element than the free Heyting algebra" 03:26:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_problem_(mathematics) 03:26:25 Title: Word problem (mathematics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 03:26:35 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_problem_(mathematics) 03:27:07 ah 03:27:37 i guess saying an infinite things has one more element than another infinite things can make sense when the things are more interesting than sets 03:28:50 oerjan: btw you know how if you take a discrete space and then add one more element which isn't in any open set (not even the set of everything) then you get a thing which is like a pointed set 03:29:13 (and you keep the usual definition of continuity and so on of course) 03:29:39 or you can add an element which is in every set, even the "empty" one 03:29:43 same deal 03:29:45 shachaf: i assume it means "has one element that isn't in the free heyting algebra" 03:30:10 sure 03:31:17 shachaf: i am not sure i know, unless you are talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandroff_extension 03:31:50 hm, i don't think i am 03:31:57 since the thing i'm talking about isn't a topological space 03:32:19 food -> 03:32:34 i just mean, you know how a space is (X,{{},X,...open sets...}) 03:32:37 ok fine 03:33:05 that's the same alexandrov as an alexandrov topology i guess 03:34:35 i'll just bug someone else instead 03:34:41 or maybe i shouldn't be bugging people, hmm 03:37:41 -!- jconn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:38:27 -!- jconn has joined. 03:47:49 ) 1 i 10 * 1 i 10 03:47:50 oerjan: |value error: i 03:47:50 oerjan: | 1 i 10*1 i 10 03:48:19 ) 1 i 10 03:48:20 oerjan: |value error: i 03:48:20 oerjan: | 1 i 10 03:48:41 what's 1 i 10 03:48:45 j would be so much cooler if you could remember the functions 03:48:48 ) i 10 03:48:49 shachaf: |value error: i 03:48:49 shachaf: | i 10 03:49:00 ) i 1 10 03:49:00 oerjan: |value error: i 03:49:00 oerjan: | i 1 10 03:49:05 ) u 03:49:06 oerjan: |value error: u 03:49:08 oops 03:49:16 is that supposed to be iota 03:49:28 ) 1 iota 10 03:49:28 oerjan: |value error: iota 03:49:29 oerjan: | 1 iota 10 03:49:34 MAYBE 03:49:39 what was it 03:49:41 ) i. 10 03:49:42 shachaf: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 03:49:47 whew 03:49:51 ) 1 i. 10 03:49:52 oerjan: 1 03:49:53 OBVIOUSLY 03:50:11 ) i. 10 + 1 03:50:11 shachaf: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 03:50:17 ) 1 + i. 10 03:50:17 ) 1 + i. 10 03:50:17 shachaf: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 03:50:18 oerjan: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 03:50:38 ) i. 3 * i. 3 03:50:38 int-e: |ok 03:50:47 i don't understand anything. 03:50:54 ) i. 3 * 3 03:50:55 int-e: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 03:50:59 ) (i. 10) * (i. 10) 03:51:00 oerjan: 0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 03:51:17 oh. zip 03:51:27 are you looking for a multiplication table 03:51:36 no 03:51:49 just playing 03:51:49 > zipWith (*) [0..9] [0..9] 03:51:50 [0,1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81] 03:51:51 ok 03:52:14 > liftM2 (*) [0..9] [0..9] 03:52:15 [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,0,3,6,9,12... 03:52:20 ) i. 10 5 03:52:21 shachaf: 0 1 2 3 4 03:52:21 shachaf: 5 6 7 8 9 03:52:21 shachaf: 10 11 12 13 14 03:52:21 shachaf: 15 16 17 18 19 03:52:21 shachaf: 20 21 22 23 24 03:52:22 shachaf: ... 03:52:24 hi 03:52:31 ) i. 3 4 03:52:31 shachaf: 0 1 2 3 03:52:32 shachaf: 4 5 6 7 03:52:32 shachaf: 8 9 10 11 03:52:43 ) i. 2 3 4 03:52:44 shachaf: 0 1 2 3 03:52:44 shachaf: 4 5 6 7 03:52:44 shachaf: 8 9 10 11 03:52:44 shachaf: 03:52:44 shachaf: 12 13 14 15 03:52:44 shachaf: ... 03:52:50 ok that's too spammy 03:54:14 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:55:07 ) (1 + i. 4) */ (1 + i. 4) 03:55:08 shachaf: 1 2 3 4 03:55:08 shachaf: 2 4 6 8 03:55:08 shachaf: 3 6 9 12 03:55:08 shachaf: 4 8 12 16 04:50:43 Quotation found in the comments of http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1622: Sidney Morgenbesser (to B.F. Skinner): “So, you’re telling me it’s wrong to anthropomorphise humans?“ 04:52:00 that is a basic way to explain behaviorism 04:52:34 that explains why googling it led me to http://lesswrong.com/lw/6i5/behaviorism_beware_anthropomorphizing_humans/ 04:53:31 oh boy, lesswrong. but yeah the idea is basically to say that introspection isn't admissible, so you're left with what you can actually observe and record people doing. 04:54:14 and that avoids thinking and poetry and other human things. 04:55:22 the other blog post started with aaronson getting interviewed by yudkowsk[iy]'s institute, btw. 04:55:44 yeah, sigh 04:56:05 i mean, the first one. 04:56:31 you can sigh when you get to lubos motl's response. which i skipped. hth 04:56:43 also i'm trying to think of morgenbesser, i swear i've heard that name or something like it 04:57:29 oskar morgenstern. i am officially bad at names. 04:58:15 motl's that recurrent guy right 04:58:26 who says things like, well, that 05:00:44 he's pretty recurrently offensive 05:00:51 right 05:01:35 also by skipping i meant not actually reading much of his blog post. 05:01:45 because, wat 05:01:48 jconn: nice multiplication table 05:01:49 quintopia: nice multiplication table 05:02:04 oerjan: you actually clicked the link? 05:02:12 well yes. 05:02:24 but why 05:02:39 not enough previous negative reinforcement. 05:02:42 oerjan: that was a good interview 05:02:49 * oerjan is reading the behaviorist thing now 05:03:01 behaviorist thing? 05:03:10 Bike: on less wrong. 05:03:24 oh 05:03:31 it's not so long. 05:03:46 also it's not by yudkowsky himself. 05:06:56 "[Evolution] is is especially too slow and large-grained to produce human-level behavior: citing my sources in MLA format is an important skill, and I don't want to have to wait until ten generations of my ancestors have perished for citing their sources incorrectly before I can do it right." 05:07:24 hmph, the "is is" was in the original 05:08:23 do they mention the endocrine system 05:09:07 not that i can see 05:09:26 since it's the behavioral modulator that's faster than genetics but slower than synapses 05:10:01 ah 05:10:02 the article is about skinner's program of explaining thoughts in addition to behavior, and the idea that mental behavior is created by a process akin to evolution. 05:10:18 it doesn't go into detail about mechanisms 05:10:24 `? quintopia 05:10:26 quintopia? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 05:10:38 `learn quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator. 05:10:43 I knew that. 05:10:54 Even though it is slow and large-grained, but there is a lot of time available so it doesn't matter if it is slow. If you want to cite your sources in MLA format, then read the book to explain how it is working, or ask someone how. 05:10:57 you're welcome 05:11:07 i should practice gisting anyway 05:11:25 zzo38: the point of the quotation is to explain why something as fast and flexible as the nervous system is adaptive. 05:11:44 well, not just the nervous system, the whole of behavioral modulation. 05:12:13 Bike: Ah, OK. It also explains the kind of mistake they made by typing "is is". 05:13:09 zzo38: it's the opposite of an anticipation error. 05:13:14 i would call it a recursion error 05:14:07 it also explains how i just ate part of a toothpick by accident 05:14:15 Some of these .MOD files are nine bytes longer than my program expects, while others are the same size the program is expecting. Why is that? 05:14:38 oh 05:14:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:14:43 it's called an addition 05:14:56 the opposite of an anticipation error is a perseveration error 05:17:17 A second kind is a semantic bias which shows a tendency for sound bias to create words that are semantically related to other words in the linguistic environment. Motley and Baars (1976) found that a word pair like "get one" will more likely slip to "wet gun" if the pair before it is "damp rifle". These results suggest that we are sensitive to how things are laid out semantically.[14] 05:19:52 -!- ^v has joined. 05:21:18 incidentally the word before "is is" was "it". 05:21:47 linguistic errors are the bomb 05:27:10 okay so i get a massive error configuring git for install. i don't know what happen. 05:28:13 does sprunge not work anymore 05:29:08 sprunge is broken the world is falling apart 05:30:07 500 Internal Server Error 05:30:41 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:31:17 -!- tromp has joined. 05:31:48 oerjan: can you tell me why these errors are happening pls pls pretty pls http://pastie.org/8555134 05:33:19 quintopia: missing .h files? 05:33:34 oerjan: looks like it. but how do i get them? 05:34:36 that i dunno. 05:35:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:36:16 also they look like pretty standard libs, and i've probably compiled against them before at some point...soooo where did they go? 05:36:44 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 05:37:58 if i mv a directory to somewhere that directory already exists, will it just overwrite that directory in its entirety? 05:39:08 -!- ^v has joined. 05:39:48 quintopia: hm, i note they're not in /usr/include on nvg's machines either. 05:40:11 oerjan: because they are in /include i think 05:40:37 oerjan: but funny thing...heh...i accidentally mv'd /usr/include to /include the other day >.> 05:41:44 mv back? 05:41:58 oh right hm 05:42:24 quintopia: perhaps run a diff between the directories? 05:42:51 oerjan: how? /include is gone poof replaced with /usr/include 05:43:07 i need new copies of all those libs 05:43:17 you don't have a /usr/include at all now? 05:43:35 well, i have a soft link from there to /include 05:43:41 ic 05:43:54 was there an /include previously? 05:44:25 maybe not 05:44:28 i'm jsut guessing here 05:44:39 but either way i need some libraries that i don't have 05:45:16 here the files are in /usr/include/linux/stddef.h and /usr/include/c++/4.4/tr1/stdarg.h (also 4.3) 05:46:11 if you have those, maybe you are just missing the correct search paths? 05:46:22 yeah i have that 05:46:49 how do i check that 05:47:10 i mean, it found stdio just fine you can see 05:47:40 also, when i checked stdio.h only one of those files should actually be included if you have __GNUC__ set 05:49:53 i don't know how you set those paths. 05:51:00 i recommend asking someone who knows this stuff rather than guessing >:) 05:54:40 i am 05:54:42 thanks 05:55:00 you're welcome 06:01:29 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 06:06:41 man, that's still a great gif. 06:09:46 badger :D 06:12:30 wtf git wtf 06:39:57 Sprunge seems broken; instead of the URL getting output, I get an HTML document specifying 500 Internal Server Error. 06:42:31 zzo38: yes we discussed this above 07:02:23 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:03:39 -!- tromp has joined. 07:06:31 quintopia: I didn't notice it 07:07:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:08:47 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:12:14 For the Elo rating system it is said "In some cases the rating system can discourage game activity for players who wish to protect their rating." Would inflation (like it is in money) help? 07:15:58 I don't really like many of the alternative systems that never decrease, either. 07:16:29 zzo38: or decreasing the rating over the time? 07:18:45 lifthrasiir: It could be another possibility 07:19:27 zzo38: the easiest fix would be to prefer "newer" ratings. for instance, when lots of players have gained position but haven't played some high ranked old player, the system should simulate their playing that old player and try to guess what the rating would be if they had played. and it should err on the side of underguessing. 07:19:30 But I think using a rating system with reference dates selected (like epoch dates in astronomy are done) may do 07:20:05 thus the only way to keep your score accurate and not low-balled is to actually play 07:21:13 quintopia: Yes, I did also think of doing something like that, not exactly like your example though 07:32:34 -!- conehead has joined. 07:32:58 quintopia: If there was an "/include", and you did "mv /usr/include /include", you'd just have ended up with /usr/include as /include/include -- but usually there isn't an /include. (I don't have a better opinion on where those files could've gone, but being compiler-specific, they tend live in e.g. /usr/lib/gcc and come with the corresponding compiler package.) 07:33:12 fizzie: thanks 07:33:54 @tell oerjan If I were to go the Unicode way, I'd surely go with a multiocular o. 07:33:54 Consider it noted. 07:35:01 @tell fizzie I thought you were annoyed that gurgle looked different from google... 07:35:01 Consider it noted. 07:35:06 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:35:29 -!- conehead has joined. 07:35:41 @messages-told 07:35:41 fizzie said 1m 47s ago: If I were to go the Unicode way, I'd surely go with a multiocular o. 07:36:21 @tell oerjan MULTIOCULAR 07:36:22 Consider it noted. 07:36:37 @tell fizzie OKAY 07:36:37 Consider it noted. 07:36:41 Okay, perhaps that is too silly. 07:36:51 so why does @messages-whatever do @messages-loud 07:36:54 @messages- 07:36:54 You don't have any messages 07:37:00 fancy 07:37:09 Because of automagic typo correction. 07:37:11 @messages-sound 07:37:11 fizzie said 49s ago: MULTIOCULAR 07:37:21 @nessages- 07:37:21 Maybe you meant: messages? messages 07:37:26 maybe i fucking didn't 07:37:29 @nessages-loud 07:37:29 You don't have any messages 07:37:30 But only if it's closer (edit-distance-wise) than 2, and unambiguous. 07:37:32 @butts 07:37:33 Unknown command, try @list 07:37:35 oh, edit distance. 07:38:08 there's also a special case for an unambiguous prefix, iirc 07:38:17 @lis 07:38:18 Maybe you meant: list listall listchans listmodules listservers 07:39:10 @listclans 07:39:10 ##categorytheory ##crypto ##logic ##manatee ##megaharem ##proggit ##villagegreen #agda #arch-haskell #csa_uva #darcs #diagrams #dreamlinux-es #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs #haskell #haskell-arcade #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-game 07:39:10 #haskell-gsoc #haskell-in-depth #haskell-infrastructure #haskell-lens #haskell-llvm #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell-soc #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell.dut #haskell.es #haskell.fi #haskell.hr #haskell.it #haskell.jp #haskell.no #haskell.ru #haskell.se #haskell.tw #haskell_ru #hscraft-srv #jhc #jtiger #learnanycomputerlanguage # 07:39:10 learnprogramming #ledger #lesswrong #lw-prog #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix #unicycling #xmonad #yi 07:39:15 cripes, sorry 07:39:26 should i even ask about megaharem 07:39:35 @dick-balls 07:39:35 Unknown command, try @list 07:39:35 YOU WILL BE SORRY 07:39:46 ##megaharem?? 07:39:53 That's a lot of channels. 07:40:11 wtf megaharem 07:40:58 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:41:02 also, ALL the haskell 07:41:51 hrvatski 07:41:57 http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8753/y3g7.png uh (topic of ##megaharem) 07:42:22 c.c 07:42:51 i uh 07:43:00 looks liberal 07:43:37 patrick seems to have fun 07:43:47 these people aren't fictional, are they 07:44:17 The topic also contains Patrick's TODO list: http://piratepad.net/nB6tkjjE70 07:44:22 (I didn't *go* there, I just /list'd.) 07:44:43 oh, i forgot you can do that. 07:45:07 the real travesty here is that they didn't use dotty 07:45:19 yes I have a friend who maintains such a graph using Graphviz 07:45:25 #haskell/2013-10-31.log:16:42:15 @tell elliott Hi! I'd like lambdabot to @join ##megaharem. I was told to pester you for the relevant privileges. 07:45:32 theirs is a bit too complicated to do in mspaint though 07:45:38 plus mspaint is just a big turnoff 07:45:43 lambdabot/2013-11-02.log:15:31:31 LeoTal said 1d 22h 49m 15s ago: Hi! I'd like lambdabot to @join ##megaharem. I was told to pester you for the relevant privileges. 07:45:46 lambdabot/2013-11-02.log:15:31:57 @join ##megaharem 07:46:01 i actually learned dotty from similar diagrams 07:46:04 lambdabot: I guess you go everywhere you're asked, huh? 07:46:06 i don't know how to feel about that suddenly 07:46:11 monotone: you're a monster. 07:46:13 the real question is, where is lambdabot on the graph 07:46:43 it's probably patrick 07:46:55 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:47:30 I made a similar graph on #esoteric once, using a thresholded version of the nick-mentioning matrix as an adjacency matrix (and GraphViz, of course), but that didn't really look terribly good. 07:47:42 yeah, the graphs had thousands of nodes. 07:47:53 opening an svg forced me to do a hard restart. 07:48:11 not my most brilliant plan 07:49:17 fizzie: omg that is a great idea 07:49:34 i just have to think about how to make newick into fancy ascii art 07:52:07 I can't seem to find the graphs I did draw. 07:52:29 It really was just http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/people_mentions.html in graph form, though. 07:53:37 Perhaps I should've used something else than a global threshold for the edges, though. Like a per-node maximum degree limit. 07:54:05 (Though that would be kind of lying.) 07:54:32 myname: it's patrick 07:55:00 fizzie: i would've made something like a phylogenetic tree 07:55:33 with shorter distances, the more people talk with each other 07:56:06 that's not phylogenic /or/ genetic >: 07:56:16 oh, yeah 07:56:54 The graph is also pretty clearly not a tree. (See: loops.) 07:57:14 you are right 07:57:16 well... 07:57:28 You could make a maximum-weight spanning tree out of it, though. 07:57:33 If you wanted a tree, anyway. 07:57:51 http://biologicalmarginalia.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/cladistics-of-doom/ 07:58:52 Bike: so... you are one of these... biological people? 07:59:09 Unlike all us machine people. 07:59:18 myname: working on it 07:59:52 Bike: i have one course as minor subject 08:00:10 what? 08:02:13 http://medicalbioinformatics.de/teaching/item/19710-algorithmic-bioinformatics (won't help you much, because it's german) 08:02:43 i'm basically imagining a course in computational cladistics. 08:03:01 -!- conehead has joined. 08:03:06 oh, you do sequence alignment too. yeah, usual stuff 08:03:20 pretty neat but i dunno much bioinformatics beyond implementing bitap on a lark once :p 08:03:40 ooh proteins too huh. any folding? 08:03:52 we are on it, currently 08:04:07 pretty hard for a computer science student 08:04:09 i guess that's the cliche thing but there must be other things, like molecular cladistics or finding domains or some shit 08:04:30 also: why do people know "bioinformatics" but not "informatics"? 08:05:00 why do they know DNA but not nucleic acids 08:05:38 i don't really know what 'informatics' is. i just kind of imagine library science 08:05:57 anyway what's hard about bioinformatics. everybody's like ten years behind in software development 08:05:59 bioïnformatics 08:06:33 Bike: well, "bioinformatics" is "bioinformatik" in german and "computer science" is "informatik" in german 08:06:41 pretty strange for me 08:06:42 Oh. 08:06:47 Not like that in English. 08:07:04 well i guess there's 'information technology'. 08:07:16 but you are right, programming stuff is pretty easy 08:07:24 it looks like lambdabot talks to itself a lot 08:07:28 even though i really hate biojava 08:07:37 like i said, ten years behind. 08:07:47 my lab uses DOS programs, man 08:07:55 hahaha 08:08:09 "they work, so noboy's bothered moving them" 08:08:15 i never heard about webservices before, ever 08:08:27 also it's hard to tell whether optbot talked to elliott or fungot more (elliott by a nose) 08:08:27 quintopia: and other variables. ever. ( great game too) http://gamegarage.co.uk/ play/ mousegame/ 08:08:30 like, why the hell do you want to send ugly soap stuff via http? 08:08:45 soap in java sucks even more than java alone 08:08:56 fungot: are you in the largest connected component 08:08:56 kmc: combinator theory: a function with an arbitrary limit on height? 08:08:57 the lab program i actually work on outputs tables as text files full of \ts 08:09:02 so, shut up, you got it good son 08:09:22 lawn, kids, etc 08:09:36 until now i can't figure out how to make a single soapelement to send as an argument to a method 08:09:45 it's not an age thing, it's an oh god does it get worse thing. 08:09:49 because every soapelement has to have a soapelement as parent 08:09:55 i mean, at least i'm not using excel. 08:10:31 fungot: why am i even awake 08:10:31 shachaf: get him a helmet!" was the subject of the day! the simulator hangs after 5300 ticks, both as an applet or standalone.)) 08:11:01 what if someone kidnapped fungot and substituted a fungot simulator 08:11:01 shachaf: i don't think i'll be of much help to you. using ncurses doesen't mean using panels, because i read the archive, which doesn't really teach anyways!! you don't want to 08:11:16 plan fungot from outer space 08:11:16 kmc: look there is no stdin stdout, but doesn't do anything about warnings. 08:11:43 would we even notice 08:11:54 not fungot but another bot of the same name 08:11:54 kmc: i can't read 08:11:58 fungot: are you the real fungot 08:11:58 shachaf: it strikes me also fnord it could be worthwhile to skim the logs from fnord for info on why it's called fnord 08:12:02 fungot: that explains a lot (??) 08:12:02 kmc: is the path taken through the fsa) it prints nothing) 08:12:07 -!- carado has joined. 08:12:49 Bike: after about 10 sessions or so one bioinformatics student asked why it is so much repetition 08:12:56 i was like "what the fuck, man?" 08:12:56 -!- PatrickRobotham has joined. 08:13:10 i don't get it 08:13:31 this course seems to be boring for most of them 08:13:41 because they already had nearly everything 08:13:46 oh 08:13:57 maybe i should clarify that i'm not in bioinformatics. i'm the guy spitting out original data in a unique undocumented format that i need you to send to my pal in spain 08:14:10 :D 08:14:35 sounds equally painful 08:14:45 hello i am prince of nigeria i have USD $100,000,000 of bioinformatics data 08:14:46 quintopia: Most of those lambdabot mentions are from lambdabot asking people to /msg lambdabot @messages. 08:15:01 i'm mostly working before the data-reading part so the pain is just in people who don't know how to code, and hey what else is new. 08:15:08 whither ruddy 08:15:09 fizzie: oh of course 08:15:45 died on the way to his home planet?? 08:15:57 maybe someday i'll have to parse a few hundred measurements of sarcomere length data sorted by salmon acclimation temperature. livin the dream 08:15:59 -!- PatrickRobotham has left. 08:15:59 what's your home planet 08:15:59 /nick kmc|notdrunk 08:16:05 shachaf: earth 08:16:12 BatrickRobotham 08:16:23 can jews eat robot ham 08:16:35 kmc: hang on just a minute are you drunk 08:16:55 v. clever trick but i've found you out 08:16:59 if he was drunk would he mime indicating he was drunk? think logically shachaf 08:17:10 You've laid some kind of trap! 08:17:38 i have no home planet 08:17:43 i'm from space.........chu space 08:18:03 If you are drunk you would accidentally mime indicating you are drunk. If you are not drunk then you will do it on purpose instead. 08:18:05 what do you call a very very small chu space? 08:18:09 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:18:43 zzo38: or what if you're lying 08:19:51 `addquote i'm from space.........chu space 08:19:55 shachaf: That doesn't matter; the result will be the same if you are lying or not. 08:19:57 1145) i'm from space.........chu space 08:20:11 zzo38: where I'm from, drunk people do integral calculus to try to demonstrate they aren't drunk 08:20:28 kmc: why do sober people do integral calculus 08:20:36 what kmc that's not even a good quote 08:20:43 because they study physics? 08:20:49 (something tells me breathalyzer tests are more accurate than calculus tests) 08:20:52 we will protect you from the terrible secret of chu space 08:21:19 if shachaf is from chu space, i want to be from Pspace 08:21:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:22:03 * kmc tries to remember why NPSPACE isn't a thing 08:22:21 it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitch%27s_theorem 08:22:28 -!- Bike has joined. 08:22:32 the thing about space is that you can reuse space but you can't reuse time 08:23:02 hey that's pretty deep and stuff 08:23:10 also NSPACE(s(n)) = co-NSPACE(s(n)) for any function s(n) ≥ log n ???? what a country 08:23:12 zzo38: where I'm from, drunk people do integral calculus to try to demonstrate they aren't drunk <-- i recall doing that once. 08:23:17 what a country 08:23:24 i on't even know what co nspacce is fuck 08:23:42 Bike: you seem drunk 08:23:55 drunk on compllexity classes 08:24:14 #P^{my dick} 08:24:33 is your dick a useful oracle 08:24:46 btw who joined that channel and mentioned #esoteric 08:24:56 it can tell whether or not he want to do it with someone in polynomial time 08:25:00 if you're going to gossip about random innocents at least don't barge in and make a fool of yourself?? 08:25:12 kmc: #P^{my dick} is actually log :( 08:25:18 elliott: i guess they attracted PatrickRobotham? 08:25:22 lmao 08:25:39 does that actually mean it's worse, i'm not sure how 'worse' is 08:25:54 your dick is so bad that it reduces the power of any complexity class 08:26:00 yes right 08:26:05 is this like... @dril teaches cs 08:26:07 should have `relcomed him 08:26:30 elliott: which channe/ 08:26:38 whoops sorry that 'l' fell over 08:26:45 kmc: the chu space papers keep train analogies 08:26:47 letter hasty placement, we sincerely regret the error 08:26:49 coincidence? 08:26:51 ïïïïï 08:26:55 are they chu chu analogies? 08:26:55 i am skeptical of the concept of 'too big to be tractable' because i am huge and in traction all the time 08:27:01 hard to tell 08:27:24 kmc: ##megaharem, presumably 08:27:28 oh 08:27:35 it's rude to just bust into another man's harem 08:27:39 (per /msg chanserv access list ##megaharem) 08:27:55 also, illegal, in the original meaning of harem 08:28:00 watch it friends 08:28:19 but there are already men in this harem 08:28:25 have we declared any fatwas recently 08:28:38 god i want to see a chick in a niqab with a siren yelling PURDAH VIOLATION 08:28:44 like a siren hat, see 08:29:02 /!\ 08:29:23 /!\ 08:29:39 /⚠\ 08:29:39 kmc strictly observes purdah 08:29:44 doubtful 08:29:48 shachaf meanwhile is a freemason 08:29:54 shachaf: do you have stairs in your house 08:30:12 i mean uh "who will help the widow's son" 08:30:44 i am a stairs 08:30:50 that happened to me once 08:30:56 salvia's a hell of a drug 08:31:13 is it good 08:31:16 not really 08:31:49 do you like existential nightmares that will haunt you for the rest of your life 08:31:52 if so then i highly recommend it 08:32:15 -!- tromp has joined. 08:32:20 is that the dual of universla nightmares 08:32:30 yes, the universal nightmare is the one we're already living 08:32:39 letter hasty placement <--- wow I transposed an entire word 08:32:59 word hasty placement too 08:33:35 one time i transposed the entire world 08:33:42 Bah, I found one "relationship graph" but it's not #esoteric, it's -- actually, never mind, it's too complicated to explain. 08:33:55 one time I shifted the entire universe up and to the left but nobody noticed 08:33:58 fizzie: is it? 08:34:23 Well, I mean, I think it's from darkhive data. 08:34:41 what's darkhive? 08:34:48 See, that's exactly what I meant. 08:35:02 i begin to understand 08:35:43 kmc: actually we noticed but emmy noether got us all to ignore it 08:35:55 I don't think there's been much relationship involvement between #esoteric members... unless I'm missing something 08:36:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:37:13 until you and shachaf started hanging out i would have been hard pressed to remember anyone who'd even met 08:37:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:37:32 I've met ineiros, but that doesn't really count for much. 08:37:44 Also mooz, but. 08:38:10 And Deewiant's allegedly seen me. 08:38:14 I've herded a couple of lurkers onto the channel from York 08:38:22 eek 08:38:45 I have the weirdest idea that oklopol and oerjan met somewhere in Norway, but perhaps I dreamed that. 08:39:11 no, that didn't happen 08:39:23 Perhaps oklopol met someone else, then. 08:40:45 i have met 5 people in this channel and several people who used to be in this channel but are no more 08:41:01 I might theoretically have met atehwa somewhere, but that's not certain at all. 08:41:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:42:21 I have met two lurkers. 08:42:30 i failed to meet any of you when I was in .fi 08:42:35 but I've met shachaf and Gracenotes 08:42:37 I have met someone who has met elliott, and probably someone who has met ais523 08:42:40 and douglass_ 08:42:42 and I live with douglass_ 08:42:46 -!- augur has joined. 08:42:54 and copumpkin 08:42:59 yep 08:45:19 -!- Effilry has joined. 08:45:25 See, it's not a completely edgeless graph. 08:45:27 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 08:45:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:45:38 the in-person-meeting graph? 08:45:52 imo the hug graph 08:45:58 yeah douglass_ has also met shachaf and Gracenotes; the four of us played mölkky together in the park, it was great 08:46:06 and maybe she's even met copumpkin 08:46:07 there was also a dog 08:46:19 The "relationship" graph. I mean, we're going to have to extend that to "ever met in real life" to get at least something going. 08:46:44 kmc: does your house have mölkky things yet 08:46:48 shachaf: to say nothing of the dog 08:46:59 kmc: oopse i have failed to say nothing of the dog 08:47:03 but i did read that book 08:47:34 me too 08:47:36 thanks 2 u 08:47:44 shachaf: it hasn't :/ 08:48:07 "How not to speak of dogs" by Dr. Zwinglish Gerademeister 08:48:13 wait which book 08:48:26 three men in a boat to say &c. 08:48:29 i have read it 08:48:39 "it hasn't :/" was re: mölkky-things 08:48:47 there's _Three Men in a Boat (To Say Nothing of the Dog)_ by Jerome K. Jerome 08:48:52 mölkky-þing 08:48:54 I want to see people use combinators inside TH expressions 08:48:58 but there's also _To Say Nothing of the Dog_ by Connie Willis 08:49:04 shachaf: oh i don't know this one 08:49:05 Rather than falling back on making quasiquoters 08:49:05 i've read both 08:49:16 is it good 08:49:19 the latter 08:50:14 hm i don't remember it v. well it was over a decade ago that i read it and also not in english so i didn't even remember that that was the title 08:50:21 but i think i enjoyed it 08:50:39 there was a cat plague in it that killed all cats on earth so they went back in time to bring cats from the past 08:50:50 or something like that?? 08:50:59 but they had to find cats that wouldn't cause paradoxes 08:51:12 so they got a dog instead? 08:51:15 am i making things up 08:51:18 hard to say 08:52:48 "I pay Jerome so much in royalties," the publisher told a friend, "I cannot imagine what becomes of all the copies of that book I issue. I often think the public must eat them." 08:52:51 that's v. confusing 08:53:13 and then it turned out that the butler did it all along 08:53:46 and/or other things i can't remember 08:54:12 -!- carado has joined. 08:54:54 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Say_Nothing_of_the_Dog 08:55:00 spoilers! 08:55:39 Win Butler did it 08:55:58 I ... distrust many of the decisions of the Yesod framework, but if I could figure out how to make combinator based routes for Yesod for use in TH without the QQ, that would be nice 08:57:11 also someone in #cslounge-books recommended another book by the same author the other day or something 08:58:15 i didn't know that's a channel 08:59:09 i think it only came into existence somewhat recently 09:00:32 oh and also the "time continuum" is conscious or something in order to correct paradoxes 09:00:35 or who even knows 09:02:21 sounds like you're not supposed to think too much about how/what that is, just that it does 09:02:34 sounds like i'm supposed to go to sleep 09:02:39 ♞ 09:03:24 hmm, judging by the time I'm supposed to go to work 09:04:54 Oh man, I never cleared out the trainers on this route 09:05:05 Now I've got my level 49 Snorlax into a battle 09:05:10 Against a level 9 Magikarp 09:05:46 a level 49 snot salmon? sounds fierce 09:06:31 Taneb: playing X/Y? 09:07:11 FireFly: All Pokemen names in highlight, eh? 09:07:22 not really 09:08:24 -!- tromp has joined. 09:12:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:15:55 FireFly, yep 09:21:00 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:22:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:29:57 int-e: trailing zeros and saturated subtraction, understood, great. 09:39:40 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:43:41 !SENT_START OF U. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. HAVE A BUYBACK OF YOUTH !SENT_END riiight 09:44:14 would that i could 09:44:35 fungot: do you still have the buyback of youth? 09:44:35 olsner: nice to see that xml uses explicit renaming). using ( require ( lib " errortrace.ss" " errortrace")) doesn't do anything for the computed result 09:45:33 !SENT_START U. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. AGE BOY GEORGE K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. !SENT_END 09:45:41 I guess that's not very good. 09:48:13 what's with the U's and K's 09:48:50 I'unno. 09:49:19 Sometimes there's also I. and A. 09:49:53 It's also obsessed with buybacks. 09:49:56 !SENT_START A U. K. K. K. K. YOU BUY BACK OF A YEAR THEY HAVE YOU BUY BACK BACK !SENT_END 09:50:09 !SENT_START BACK OF A BOY HAVE A YEAR BUYBACK OF YOUTH BY JACK I. K. K. !SENT_END 09:50:42 fungot: It makes less sense than you! 09:50:42 fizzie: actually english has that version too: " utility" only if you want to 09:50:57 Deep. 09:52:36 -!- _46bit has quit (*.net *.split). 09:52:36 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 09:54:35 -!- _46bit has joined. 09:54:35 -!- myndzi has joined. 10:04:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:12:36 Hello 10:16:25 Hi 11:10:16 -!- tromp has joined. 11:15:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:23:42 TIL: "The mouse visual cortex is like the smartphone of neuroscience. Everyone feels the need to get one, but it remains to be seen if it's a convenience or a distraction." 11:59:14 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 12:13:10 -!- tromp has joined. 12:15:52 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:31:31 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:34:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:58:13 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 13:11:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:13:42 -!- boily has joined. 13:14:31 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:15:33 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:15:51 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 13:21:11 -!- Timwi has joined. 13:21:57 -!- boily has joined. 13:22:12 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:22:15 good snowy morning! 13:22:22 @massages-loud 13:22:22 oerjan said 2d 11h 43m 58s ago: You misspelled exercise on your user page 13:22:22 oerjan said 2d 11h 18m 15s ago: good unpentadactyl morning! <-- my condolences on losing a finger 13:22:22 oerjan asked 2d 10h 48m 53s ago: normally distributed glazed eyes served over bouchées of surreal bread rolls. <-- are you attempting to create québécois/r'lyehan fusion cuisine 13:22:58 @tell oerjan oops. 13:22:59 Consider it noted. 13:23:14 @tell oerjan I'm stuck with a prosthetic vimperator. 13:23:14 Consider it noted. 13:23:26 @tell oerjan la la la ♪ 13:23:26 Consider it noted. 13:23:29 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:30:34 -!- tromp has joined. 13:35:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:42:54 -!- atriq has joined. 13:44:03 hellooodl. atangevlobriq. 13:44:46 :P 14:19:09 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 14:21:47 -!- natalybarel has joined. 14:22:24 -!- boily1 has joined. 14:23:52 -!- boily has quit (*.net *.split). 14:23:53 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 14:23:56 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 14:24:08 "You’re invited to try out the R2014a Prerelease with MATLAB" but I'm not sure I want to :/ 14:24:12 -!- boily1 has changed nick to boily. 14:25:36 fizzie: you know you want to feel the MATLAB. 14:26:16 R2014a! 14:27:13 fungot: do you understand matlab? 14:27:13 boily: i found it much more complicated than it needs to be public 14:27:21 fizzie: there ↑ 14:27:38 fungot: You're certainly right about that. Whatever that means. 14:27:39 fizzie: false, fnord) at the mzscheme source code:). 14:27:42 -!- ternkustik has joined. 14:27:48 `relcome ternkustik 14:27:50 ​ternkustik: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:34:33 -!- ternkustik has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:36:53 -!- natalybarel has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:50:48 -!- yorick has joined. 14:52:16 small question: how is Thue somehow enabled with nondeterminism? I'm confused by the example given. 14:52:30 yes it expresses nondeterminism, but it doesn't make sense. 14:52:58 are the two conflicting definitions somehow in some sort of race condition or something? 14:55:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:58:38 -!- RJones_ has joined. 14:59:39 -!- RJones_ has changed nick to RJones. 15:10:19 if you're lucky → http://www.cisco.com/ 15:11:16 Woah. 15:11:46 -!- augur_ has joined. 15:13:41 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:14:08 -!- Fiora has joined. 15:14:10 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 15:14:42 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:14:42 -!- Fiora_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:14:43 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 15:14:45 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:14:45 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:14:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:15:03 -!- Effilry has joined. 15:15:18 -!- realz has joined. 15:15:32 -!- realz has quit (Changing host). 15:15:32 -!- realz has joined. 15:15:35 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 15:23:05 -!- Chillectual has joined. 15:23:20 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:23:23 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 15:24:10 -!- RJones has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:24:17 -!- RJones has joined. 15:27:04 -!- fizzie` has joined. 15:27:20 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:27:38 fungot: do you even netsplit, bro? 15:27:38 boily: and do you? i know i have seen that multiple times, though 15:28:19 fungot: I did, about one hour ago. 15:28:19 boily: hardware also helps in a whole directory as a file system 15:34:26 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:37:17 -!- RJones_ has joined. 15:37:17 lol. 15:37:17 -!- RJones_ has left. 15:39:04 -!- metasepia has quit (*.net *.split). 15:39:06 -!- _46bit has quit (*.net *.split). 15:39:06 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 15:44:32 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 15:44:32 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:44:32 -!- _46bit has joined. 15:44:32 -!- myndzi has joined. 15:45:40 -!- RJones has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:46:53 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:47:19 -!- monotone_ has joined. 15:49:04 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 15:49:26 -!- fizzie` has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:49:31 -!- ineiros has joined. 15:51:15 -!- myname has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:51:18 -!- nycs has joined. 15:51:18 -!- boily1 has joined. 15:51:22 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 15:51:47 -!- SirCmpwn_ has joined. 15:52:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 15:53:14 -!- rodgort has quit (Excess Flood). 15:53:46 -!- rodgort has joined. 15:54:56 -!- rodgort` has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:54:56 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:54:59 -!- monotone has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:55:07 -!- SirCmpwn_ has changed nick to SirCmpwn. 15:56:28 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:56:40 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:56:40 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:56:40 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:57:32 -!- boily1 has changed nick to boily. 15:57:35 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:58:12 -!- metasepia has joined. 16:02:20 -!- ^v has joined. 16:03:16 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:03:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:03:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:04:02 -!- heroux has joined. 16:04:19 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:04:48 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:05:12 -!- olsner has joined. 16:09:50 -!- tromp has joined. 16:17:02 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 16:18:21 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:22 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:22 -!- tromp__ has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:27 -!- metasepia has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:27 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:29 -!- _46bit has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:29 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:30 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:31 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:31 -!- Halite has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:34 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:34 -!- impomatic has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:34 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:36 -!- oklopol has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:37 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:37 -!- iamcal has quit (*.net *.split). 16:18:40 -!- Sellyme has quit (*.net *.split). 16:19:49 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 16:20:23 -!- yorick has joined. 16:20:37 -!- RJones has joined. 16:20:47 Netsplit. Netsplit everywhere. 16:21:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:21:26 -!- olsner has joined. 16:21:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:21:26 -!- metasepia has joined. 16:21:26 -!- rodgort has joined. 16:21:26 -!- myndzi has joined. 16:21:26 -!- _46bit has joined. 16:21:26 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:21:26 -!- iamcal has joined. 16:21:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:21:26 -!- b_jonas has joined. 16:21:26 -!- Sellyme has joined. 16:21:26 -!- ggherdov has joined. 16:21:26 -!- Halite has joined. 16:21:34 LinearInterpol: what don't you get about thue's nondeterminism 16:21:47 how it works. 16:22:00 I understand it's a rewrite system and everything but.. 16:22:33 does outputting symbols suddenly trigger a race condition or something? 16:22:35 it's just that if more than one rule cn apply you have to pick one. 16:22:42 oh. 16:22:49 ohhhh. 16:22:51 oh.. 16:23:09 -!- jconn has joined. 16:23:30 so underneath you're just essentially using something like an RNG to select which definition to use. 16:23:59 or something to that effect to make said decision. 16:24:05 no. it's just not defined. 16:24:20 you could always pick the first one, or always pick the last one, or use an RNG on alternate tuesdays. 16:24:26 -!- jconn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:24:32 alright. 16:24:36 -!- jconn has joined. 16:24:38 but in, say, the javascript implementation.. 16:24:43 that's what I'm wondering. 16:25:12 I mean abstractly yes it's undefined but my real gripe was in the implementation :P 16:25:27 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:25:32 Oh. Which one? 16:25:33 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 16:25:41 the one at "lolwh.at"? 16:25:51 http://web.archive.org/web/20031210145310/http://cyberspace.org/~lament/thue.html 16:26:00 's the one that's linked on the wiki page. 16:26:08 The one on Esolang gives me a 403. 16:26:57 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:27:01 It looks like it picks a rule randomly. 16:27:21 I initially thought it was some kind of race condition setup. 16:27:24 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:27:24 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:27:27 But. 16:27:34 It does look just.. random. 16:27:45 "var selected = random_choice(matching_rules)" 16:28:02 yep. 16:28:41 -!- yorick has joined. 16:29:08 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:30:08 -!- fizzie has joined. 16:31:07 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 16:32:00 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:34:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:36:11 -!- fungot has joined. 16:44:18 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:51:26 hoily 17:01:35 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 17:05:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:07:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:11:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:14:42 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to polytone. 17:16:05 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:22:30 -!- iksfiles has joined. 17:23:36 -!- Timwi has quit. 17:25:21 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 17:25:27 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:26:00 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 17:26:12 -!- iksfiles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:31:23 -!- RJones has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:33:37 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Start anime transformation sequence!). 17:35:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:36:27 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:37:17 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 17:42:15 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:58:09 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 17:59:21 hintopia. 18:16:23 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 18:21:16 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:25:53 -!- shemarov has joined. 18:26:28 `relcome shemarov 18:26:30 ​shemarov: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:27:03 shachaf: wait. didn't I `relcome you already this morning? 18:27:13 s/shachaf/shemarov/ 18:27:19 boily: No, you've never `relcomed me. 18:27:24 No one has. 18:27:31 shachaf: but I mistabcompleted you. 18:27:36 `relcome shachaf 18:27:39 ​shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:27:43 `thanks boily 18:27:44 Thanks, boily. Thoily. 18:28:19 kmc: "new wood stoves" would be a good name for a ban 18:29:34 -_- 18:30:15 V. fancy, named bans. 18:30:34 -!- shemarov has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:31:27 *!*@* would be a good name for a ban 18:33:49 -!- muitnep has joined. 18:33:58 -!- muitnep has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:38:50 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:41:56 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:44:50 Quick Question 18:45:17 I'd like to do modulo 2 in brainfuck 18:45:23 on the values 0,1 and 2 18:45:35 so if(cell == 2) cell = 0 would work too 18:47:41 -!- nikeoxi has joined. 18:47:49 What? 18:48:14 Do you mean binary BF or something else 18:49:29 no 18:49:37 but doesn't matter anyway 18:49:39 Spacefish is TC 18:49:55 -!- nikeoxi has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:50:23 mroman: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#x_.3D_x_.3D.3D_y, where y = 1? 18:51:35 (meanwhile, someone strange is doing something weird on IRC from 91.210.101.0/24...) 18:52:40 well 18:52:44 not 100% TC. 18:52:44 But 18:52:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:52:57 http://codepad.org/Hf6likTu 18:53:02 ^- that would be the principle 18:53:19 I assumed 8 is the highest value 18:53:25 but the same thing should apply to 255 as well 18:53:29 you just need more spacing 18:54:32 if you need a new cell, you set up the spacing 18:54:43 and subtract 6 (the constant pre-known distortion) from it 18:54:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:54:47 -!- dmarat has joined. 18:55:00 dmarat: who are you exactly? 18:55:23 `python print(31 /2) 18:55:24 python: can't open file 'print(31 /2)': [Errno 2] No such file or directory 18:55:32 `python "print (31 /2)" 18:55:34 python: can't open file '"print (31 /2)"': [Errno 2] No such file or directory 18:55:38 hm 18:55:39 whatever 18:55:43 `python -c 'print(31/2)' 18:55:45 ​ File "", line 1 \ 'print(31/2)' \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent 18:55:49 ... 18:55:52 * boily mapoles HackEgo 18:56:01 ~eval 31 `div` 2 18:56:02 `run python -c "print(31 / 2)" 18:56:03 `run python -c 'print(31/2)' 18:56:04 15 18:56:04 15 18:56:08 Error (1): 18:56:14 * boily facepalms 18:56:16 ~eval 31 `div` 2 18:56:17 15 18:56:24 @messages-lood 18:56:25 oerjan said 2d 16h 44m 57s ago: (Control.Arrow.>>>) 18:56:37 mrhmouse: well, there is also [->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<] for divmodding. 18:56:39 :t (Control.Category.>>>) 18:56:41 Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c 18:56:46 @tell oerjan Thanks! 18:56:46 Consider it noted. 18:57:52 -!- muskrat has joined. 18:57:53 Though I don't think that's what I was looking for :P 18:58:17 I _think_ I wanted (a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> (c -> b) 18:58:31 composition? 18:58:45 Bike: yes.. wait.. I may have it backwards. 18:58:55 flip (.) ofc 18:58:57 I was looking for something like F#'s |> operator, out of curiousity 18:59:07 ain't got time for that nerd shit 18:59:21 Bike you are my favorite person. 18:59:32 Er, mode of transportation 18:59:35 http://codepad.org/QCN9hF7a 18:59:42 Works for 255 too 18:59:46 * boily sews wedding dresses for mrhmouse and Bike 18:59:53 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:59:56 boily, can I borrow your mapole? 19:00:03 i'm an athlete, everybody loves me 19:00:31 Now one just needs to find a way to determine when to allocate more memory 19:00:51 at least it's a finite state machine 19:01:05 mrhmouse: please yourself, go nuts, have fun, enjoy the mapole! 19:01:45 If you know how much memory your program needs, you can do the space initialization at program start 19:02:26 -!- dmarat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:02:30 * mrhmouse mapoles boily 19:02:39 * mrhmouse gives it back 19:03:09 Maybe one can check if one has wrapped around 19:03:13 and then allocate more memory 19:03:20 mrhmouse: bleh :p 19:03:23 which would require to perform a memory check after every > or < 19:03:26 but hey 19:04:00 Can you check in Brainfuck for a certain cell value without using any other cell? 19:04:20 Without changing it? 19:04:38 Well 19:04:47 after the check it must have the same value as before the check 19:05:00 uh, how are you outputting a result then. 19:05:06 You could then set 'tape end' markers 19:05:15 and after every > or < you check if you are at the end of the tape 19:05:20 and then just allocate more memory 19:05:43 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 19:06:28 maybe 19:06:38 oh wait 19:06:41 you can use other cells 19:06:45 I guess 19:07:15 you can use the spacing cells between real cells for temporary values 19:07:24 but you have to set them to 0 after you're done 19:09:31 that still doesn't explain output. 19:10:42 ah 19:10:49 I'll leave it to some bf-expert to figure out the rest :D 19:15:34 Well 19:16:21 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:16:24 My bachelor thesis is gonna be about simulating masses of people in buildings 19:17:50 to determine if the building is capable of handling thousands of people walking different routes without jamming up 19:17:54 like train stations 19:18:32 if I'm actually doing the whole bachelor stuff 19:22:44 -!- muskrat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:23:01 -!- muskrat has joined. 19:27:17 -!- muskrat has quit (Client Quit). 19:39:28 ooh masses of people 19:39:38 i like it 19:40:21 or "groups of lots of people" 19:41:03 are calculations easier if you consider masses of groups of lots of people as a continous fluid? 19:41:23 mayb 19:41:59 the flow of people from floor to floor, gushing down staircases like the Niagara :D 19:42:24 -!- augur has joined. 19:42:26 it's a differential equation based approach 19:44:22 Navier-Stokes the liquid out of that approach. 19:44:32 Probably not 19:44:42 Navier-Stokes sounds sciency 19:46:21 engineeringly sciency. 19:47:12 I have no idea of sciency stuff 19:47:58 hoily 19:48:08 hintopia. 19:49:15 hmm, a map of a subway is not an optimal mouse pad for optical mice 19:49:38 the cursor tends to follow the subway lines 19:49:56 boily: i notice you have written some interpreters in python others in ruby. what do you do your work code in? 19:51:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:51:37 quintopia: python. 19:52:07 aubergine needs a python interp 19:52:20 I had my ruby phase when I was younger, back when I was still in Cégep. I'd say... 16 to 18 year old. 19:52:34 aubergine does need a python interp. 19:52:38 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:52:46 Write all interpreters in brainfuck 19:52:50 or a Haskell one. I could create an Aubergine monad :D 19:53:10 Haskell is too easy =P 19:53:14 if you don't python it, i will eventually 19:53:38 huh, there's an ISO Ruby nowadays 19:53:53 quintopia: suit yourself! (or the Québécois version: «gâte toé!») 19:53:57 olsner: say what? 19:54:18 what is groovy 19:54:39 i'm guessing grails is groovy on rails 19:55:00 (if I read more I expect to find it deprecated and completely incompatible with any ruby version that the rubyites are willing to use, it's already a year old after all) 19:56:14 boily: e.g. http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=59579 19:58:34 only CAD 283.60! 20:13:08 I've been playing around with something like delimited continuations and they are the most fun and mindbending ever 20:13:54 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 20:18:55 (reset (list 1 (reset (list 2 (shift k (list 3 (funcall (k 4) 5))) (list 6 (shift w #'w)))))) => (1 (3 (2 4 (6 5)))) 20:33:27 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]). 20:34:56 -!- CADD has joined. 20:52:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:00:36 could anyone give step-by-step instructions for how one would construct Truth-machine in Onoz? 21:04:30 oh god delimited continuations 21:08:20 :D 21:08:59 maybe i've given up on understanding them :/ 21:10:41 I just used a macro to make my mock version of shift reset 21:11:09 they aren't /that/ hard to understand 21:11:13 i think 21:13:41 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:14:19 doesthiswork is beginning to show multiple personalities, one of them understanding delimited continuations. 21:15:38 I can successfully walk through them, it's just sometimes they don't do what I expect until I do 21:23:37 where is ais523. he'd know how to construct an infinite loop which is not provably so 21:24:06 * kmc uses a delimited continuation to jump to another timeline where he understands delimited continuations 21:26:30 -!- muskrat has joined. 21:27:18 they're really fun to nest 21:33:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:34:32 -!- augur has joined. 21:39:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:41:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNDELIMITED CHICKEN). 21:41:18 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:06:14 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:14:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:32:04 which reglangs do people in #esoteric use? 22:32:47 -!- augur has joined. 22:33:22 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:33:35 -!- augur has joined. 22:33:47 non-eso langs? 22:35:52 kmc: yes. 22:36:15 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:36:31 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:37:24 I know many here use Haskell, but talk earlier regarding Python, Ruby, Groovy, etc has me interested in what else is in use. I know that you, at least, use Rust 22:38:47 I am currently forced to use Python 22:39:04 Taneb: for university? 22:39:07 Aye 22:39:10 I used to write Haskell quite often, but not lately 22:41:01 lately it's mostly Rust, Python, C, Bash, GNU Make, JavaScript, x86 assembly 22:41:06 lisps for fuckwithing, matlab at woik 22:41:19 and i have a few things in verilog and javascript i should really finish. 22:43:30 i have been paid to write perl, haskell, c, c++, java, assembly, shell, make, rust, javascript, prolly some others 22:43:33 scheme if being a TA counts 22:43:51 remember when you were paid to write nops 22:44:07 yep 22:46:09 I currently use C#, CoffeeScript, and D most often. I'm learning Erlang & OCaml, and I have to use C#/JavaScript/T-SQL at work. 22:46:49 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:47:24 kmc: you were paid to write makefiles? specifically for the makefiles, or were they part of other projects you were on? 22:47:52 a programming project wth one person working specifically n the build process would be kind of neat. 22:48:05 that's common on large projects 22:48:17 it rapidly grows to be a full-time job 22:48:26 especially if you support lots of platforms 22:48:36 mrhmouse: part of other projects 22:49:48 does Rust have a dependency management system? I've been language-hopping lately looking for a language that I like _and_ that has a good dep manager. 22:50:27 something like NPM for NodeJS, Ruby Gems, D's Dub, Rebar, etc etc.. 22:52:42 not really 22:53:20 there's this rustpkg thing but it's not very complete 22:53:52 and I don't know about the current pace of development, since the main developer left Mozilla 22:54:14 you could look for docs or ask in #rust on irc.mozilla.org; they probably have a better idea how capable it is 22:54:17 I've only used it a little 22:54:55 the project I work on uses Make for the top-level build, and does build some individual dependencies with rustpkg, but we're having problems with it and we're probably switching away 22:55:23 I was only curious; Rust struck me as too low-level for my needs when I checked it out ages ago. Though their pointer types seem far nicer than C++ 22:55:48 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:55:50 it is a low-level language, yeah, though it's memory safe at the same time, which is really cool 22:56:18 and yeah, the pointer types express concepts which exist in C and C++, but in those languages they exist mostly in the programmer's head and can't be checked automatically 22:56:29 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 22:56:29 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:57:48 I remember thinking that was useful (owned pointers, I think they're called?) 22:58:35 yeah C also has a notion of pointers which transfer ownership vs. those which don't 22:58:52 C or just C programmers? 22:58:53 for example, strdup takes the latter and returns the former 22:59:07 but there's zero compiler checking and if you screw it up you corrupt memory 22:59:16 shachaf: well, C APIs anyway 22:59:30 right, so it's not part of the language spec like in Rusy 22:59:44 yeah 22:59:44 s/sy/st 22:59:53 woo, C! 23:00:00 i mention this by way of heading off the criticism (not from you, but in general) that Rust has too many pointer types 23:00:06 mrhmouse: s|$|/| 23:00:07 on the other hand i heard that you can't do self.tree = in rust 23:00:08 it's just codifying and checking things that already exist 23:00:31 fizzie: but that yields "Rus", no? 23:00:44 mrhmouse: No, it just adds the / you were missing. 23:00:52 fizzie: d'oh! 23:01:20 kievan rus't 23:01:46 fizzie: regexes operating on regexes? that should be an esolang, oh wait 23:03:00 honestly I'd prefer to use C# more at home, but the most popular package manager has some issues on Mono 23:03:43 :/ 23:03:58 yeah, C# seems like a pretty good language, but I'm scared off using it more due to my impression that non-MS tools are half-baked 23:04:46 kmc: I can't vouch for MonoDevelop, if that's what you mean. I primarily use Vim & gmcs directly 23:05:07 Mono itself is pretty mature, though. 23:05:39 that's good 23:05:42 but this package manager isn't? 23:05:59 it's just that NuGet (the MS package manager) does things like hardcode paths to look for config files (%AppData%\LocalLow\something) 23:06:12 sigh 23:06:30 so it's more on the NuGet devs :/ 23:07:01 also, NuGet really shouldn't have existed in the first place.. there was already a package manager in place that works cross-platform, but MS rolled their own 23:07:52 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: out for a bit). 23:09:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:09:24 http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2013/12/16/the-age-of-bitcoins-is-over/ 23:11:17 @messages-lot 23:11:17 boily said 9h 48m 18s ago: oops. 23:11:17 boily said 9h 48m 3s ago: I'm stuck with a prosthetic vimperator. 23:11:17 boily said 9h 47m 50s ago: la la la ♪ 23:11:17 mrhmouse said 4h 14m 31s ago: Thanks! 23:41:25 http://blog.moertel.com/posts/2013-12-14-great-old-timey-game-programming-hack.html fun stuff 23:43:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:44:59 Bike: oh gosh, the messing with the stack pointer thing. that reminds me of a post I saw once on how to get 8 registers on x86 23:45:09 by stuffing the stack pointer in a memory location and using esp as a register 23:45:09 i'm afraid. 23:45:13 yes. 23:45:27 i'm just kind of in awe that there was a "zero page" you could make be anywhere 23:45:32 it sounded like the kind of thing that could make the OS hate you 23:45:45 gosh, yeah, I still don't really understand the zero page thing, like, I've seen it in documentation for these old things but it's weird 23:46:47 instructions with a single byte offset can access the zero page in one cycle less than an instruction with two bytes offset 23:46:53 this thing has an OS? 23:47:02 (due to being one byte smaller) 23:47:08 well like, 6502 had two-byte addressing, where each one-byte block was a "page", and there was an addressing mode where you just use the second byte and the first byte is zero. 23:47:11 or dp, on this thing 23:50:18 AVR is kind of like that too 23:50:31 the "registers" are just the first n bytes of RAM, with a special compact addressing mode 23:51:18 yay, zero page. 23:51:58 so in Metroid all your stats were in the zp, as i remember 23:53:30 what'cha discussin'. 23:54:20 magic. 23:54:26 6502 you say 23:54:49 index registers ftw. 2013-12-17: 00:11:21 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 00:13:26 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:49:29 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:49:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 00:53:57 http://web.archive.org/web/20031210145310/http://cyberspace.org/~lament/thue.html <-- hm although both original links are dead, wayback has a younger capture of the esolang one. although they're probably identical code anyway. 00:54:08 http://thue.stanford.edu/ 00:54:27 http://thue.stanford.edu/puzzle.html 00:54:27 lol. 00:55:07 shachaf: seems like a different one 00:55:24 too bad 00:58:13 * oerjan updates to use our handy wayback template 00:59:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 00:59:21 something about rewrite systems makes me happy. 01:00:16 when I was studying the process behind markov algorithms I learned all sorts of cool things you can do using them, even though it is a bit unintuitive at first. 01:02:40 did we point you to /// yet (probably) 01:02:53 * oerjan is heavily biased, of course 01:03:06 being biased towards /// is sensible 01:03:14 yep! 01:03:19 I've looked briefly at /// 01:03:25 (I assume you're the creator) 01:03:32 Bike: it's just asking for a slanted view, really 01:03:34 he at least wrote some algorithms 01:03:40 shut uppppp 01:03:44 hurrrr. 01:03:44 LinearInterpol: not the creator but the main programmer 01:03:56 interesting. 01:04:02 I assume someone's made a \\\ already? 01:04:05 or ||| 01:04:37 olsner: hm i don't _recall_ so. 01:04:57 this might be a good time to mention i'm amazed this channel doesn't have a search-for-esolang function 01:05:13 Anyone knows how unary minus mixes with list subscripts in Python? 01:05:14 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:05:30 `cat bin/wiki 01:05:32 cat: bin/wiki: No such file or directory 01:05:39 Taneb: the way you'd expect, of course 01:05:44 HackEgo could have had, i guess 01:05:52 shachaf, I mean like -i[0] 01:06:02 oh 01:06:06 Which seems to work the way I expect 01:06:13 there you go, then 01:06:37 (i was thinking of negative indexing, which doesn't actually work the way you'd expect) 01:06:50 doesn't it count from the end 01:07:29 yes 01:08:17 oerjan: where's my olist 01:08:27 `pastlog `olist 01:08:58 No output. 01:09:05 help 01:09:11 `run ls bin/*log* 01:09:13 bin/anonlog \ bin/etymology \ bin/log \ bin/logurl \ bin/pastalog \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastelogs \ bin/pastlog \ bin/randomanonlog \ bin/searchlog 01:09:15 you people 01:09:26 `randomanonlog 01:09:30 brainfuck can be compiled to machine code.. that's faster 01:09:36 `randomanonlog 01:09:40 AFK all 01:09:42 `randomanonlog 01:09:46 Saturday shall be red fedora day! 01:09:56 `randomanonlog 01:09:56 `randomanonlog 01:09:56 `randomanonlog 01:09:56 `randomanonlog 01:09:57 `randomanonlog 01:10:04 ​(recording my gf, don't worry) 01:10:05 fizzie: Pls fix with analytical logical skills not zapping 01:10:05 yes, there are very few of new concepts there. still interesting to write a shortest hello-world and a quine :) 01:10:05 85 <-- gentoo 01:10:05 s/,/m/ 01:10:39 what a mysterious function. 01:10:52 fungot: why use skills if you can use zapping? 01:10:53 olsner: ( define it " want to learn two languages at once, ecraven. internally to t, because fixnums are usually not modified very frequently. 01:11:06 kmc: "new wood stoves" would be a good name for a ban <-- I'LL TRY TO KEEP THAT IN MIND 01:12:25 context: 10:17 I believe SF bans new wood stoves but does not yet require removing existing ones. 01:13:18 context :( 01:13:42 you mean it wasn't a typo? freaky. 01:14:09 oerjan: sry 01:14:34 oerjan: would banning me make you feel better 01:16:53 we're not banning wood stoves in norway yet, but there's some serious environmental pollution control 01:17:07 shachaf: doubtful 01:17:41 now the pain killers kicking in otoh... 01:18:52 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:29 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/science/earth/outsider-challenges-papers-on-growth-of-dinosaurs.html not all is well in the land of dinos 01:19:40 myhrvold sure is an eclectic dude. 01:21:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:23:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:24:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 01:24:57 avant-garde cuisine and patent law should _not_ be mixed hth 01:29:28 "Don't you just change "assertEquals(x, y)" to "it(x).should().equal(y)" ?" 01:30:45 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:31:36 sensible 01:37:20 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:41:32 Sgeo: lol now your library is Elegant™ 01:41:55 -!- muskrat has joined. 01:44:33 (fwiw I just quoted someone replying to PLT_Hulk) 01:44:56 Fiora: the thing about stack pointer reminds me of the (admittedly less extreme) hack where Linux puts a task-specific data structure at the end of the 8 kB aligned kernel stack, so you can get its address by masking the stack pointer 01:45:14 huh, sneaky 01:45:22 so it's like athread local storage type thing with stacks? 01:45:29 very useful in exploit code too! :3 01:45:48 yeah 01:46:07 hooray for sneaky things 01:46:20 does HackEgo have a database of sneaky things like lambdabot does 01:46:43 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:47:00 lol 01:47:02 what's lambdabot's 01:47:08 @where sneaky 01:47:08 dropFromEnd n xs = zipWith const xs (drop n xs) 01:47:10 @where sneaky2 01:47:10 lazyReverse xs = go xs (reverse xs) where go (_:xs) ~(y:ys) = y : go xs ys; go [] ~[] = [] 01:47:13 and so on 01:47:54 -!- realz has joined. 01:47:58 Sneaky? 01:48:25 Is that dropFromEnd supposed to be broken or just clever? 01:48:40 > zip [1] [1,2] 01:48:41 [(1,1)] 01:49:40 clever hth 01:50:07 > let xs = [1,2,3,4,5] in zipWith const xs (drop 2 xs) 01:50:08 [1,2,3] 01:50:17 in particular, it's O(n) space where n is that variable 01:50:24 i think 01:50:28 in particular it works on infinite lists 01:50:40 > let xs = [71..] in zipWith const xs (drop 2 xs) 01:50:41 [71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,... 01:51:53 now someone can explain to me what the point of that lazyReverse is. 01:51:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:52:03 > let lazyReverse xs = go xs (reverse xs) where go (_:xs) ~(y:ys) = y : go xs ys; go [] ~[] = [] in lazyReverse [17,2,39] 01:52:04 It works on infinite lists. 01:52:05 [39,2,17] 01:52:09 > let lazyReverse xs = go xs (reverse xs) where go (_:xs) ~(y:ys) = y : go xs ys; go [] ~[] = [] in lazyReverse [17..] 01:52:14 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 01:52:28 great. 01:52:30 It gives you a cons cell in the result as soon as it sees a cons cell in the input. 01:52:41 shachaf: hm well ok, as long as you don't look at the elements 01:52:45 Right. 01:53:11 > let lazyReverse xs = go xs (reverse xs) where go (_:xs) ~(y:ys) = y : go xs ys; go [] ~[] = [] in length . take 5 $ lazyReverse [17..] 01:53:12 5 01:59:26 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:59:49 -!- Slereah has joined. 02:01:38 `cat bin/` 02:01:40 exec bash -c "$1" 02:02:02 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:02:24 hm, psoas, is that just coincidence 02:02:47 saføui 02:02:52 also a coincidence 02:03:05 dag 02:03:19 natt 02:04:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:06:37 -!- heroux has joined. 02:14:43 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:15:27 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:15:47 -!- Slereah has joined. 02:31:55 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:36:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:37:33 Finished watching the Freeman’s Mind episodes released so far. ’Twas funneh. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6PNZBb6b9LvDWpI-5CPYUxG1Rnm-vr9V 02:38:26 -!- Bike has joined. 02:58:02 Not sure if real life or The Onion http://www.cbc.ca/thisisthat/blog/2013/12/11/man-emerges-from-bunker-14-years-after-y2k-scare/index.html 02:58:13 satire 02:58:32 that was easy. 02:58:33 it's just fantasy 02:58:47 `` ` ` ` echo asdf 02:58:49 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 02:58:54 hmm. 02:59:05 so (reset (cons 1 (shift w (cons 5 (w '()))))) => (5 1) 02:59:25 Hehe, ok. 02:59:29 should (reset (cons 1 (reset (shift k (k (shift w (cons 5 (w '())))))))) return (5 1) or (1 5) 02:59:40 i'm afraid 02:59:44 (not which does it, but which would you expect) 03:00:43 is there some way to do this in cps instead @_@ 03:00:57 not without making it worse 03:01:35 well it's gibberish so it can't get worse 03:01:40 i'm gonna guess (1 5) though 03:01:58 any reason? 03:02:01 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:02:18 because i'm imagining that the outer "reset" is totally ignored 03:02:49 that is indeed how shift and reset work 03:02:56 -!- realzies has joined. 03:07:09 is the (reset (cons 1 ...)) one like (let ((w (lambda (x) (cons 1 x)))) (cons 5 (w '())) 03:08:59 pretty much 03:10:26 the various delimiting operator differ in how they treat nesting 03:10:37 so the latter one is like (cons 1 (let ((k (lambda (x) x))) (let ((w (lambda (x) (k x)))) (cons 5 (w '())))))? 03:11:40 yes 03:12:03 hm. 03:14:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:16:17 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:16:56 if nested shifts referred to nesting resets it would be equivalent to (let ((w (lambda (a) (cons 1 (let ((k (lambda (b) b))) (k a)))))) (cons 5 (w '()))) 03:17:20 "Facebook is seeking an experienced Software Engineer to help us port the world’s best PHP run-time on servers based on ARM processor" 03:22:06 I'm not sure which regime is more pleasant to use 03:29:30 quantum computation is whack 03:29:40 quantum PHP 03:29:44 YES 03:32:21 and reset and shift are functions right 03:34:04 I don't know if they are called functions 03:34:55 i mean, so you can do stuff like (map reset (list (lambda (f) (f (shift ...))) (lambda () (f (+ 1 (shift ...)))))))))))))))) and /we 03:35:34 yes 03:35:42 I think 03:35:56 what a pain in the ass. 03:36:03 :D 03:36:30 implementing this sounds annoying. 03:36:44 I faked it with macros 03:36:58 expanding to call/cc? 03:37:17 no, just code transformation 03:37:40 it doesn't allow me to hide the resets in a function though 03:37:54 how do you deal with (reset (list #1=(shift k ...) #1#)) 03:38:11 lets find out 03:40:17 -!- tromp_ has quit. 03:41:20 just fine 03:41:39 lol infinitely large programs 03:41:44 (reset (list #1=(shift k (list 1 (k 3))) #1#)) -> (1 (1 (3 3))) 03:41:46 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:42:33 shouldn't hte list be symmetrical? 03:43:15 nope, juxtaposition turns into nesting, within a reset 03:44:38 so that's what you get from (reset (list (shift a (list 1 (a 3))) (shift b (list 1 (b 3)))))? 03:44:55 yes 03:45:19 I think the reader makes removes the cycle when it reads it 03:45:32 s/makes/ 03:47:17 yeah i don't get this at all. it depends on evaluation order now? 03:48:00 the wikipedia page actually explains this one well 03:48:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delimited_continuation 03:48:51 regular continuations expose evaluation order too 03:49:12 doesthiswork: where? 03:49:14 kmc: they do? 03:49:18 (let/cc k (+ (k 0) (k 1))) 03:49:27 oh well right. 03:49:36 i thought delimited continuations didn't, though. 03:50:20 props on choosing let/cc 03:50:37 delimited continuations are even _less_ pure 03:50:58 bike start reading at "(reset 03:50:58 (begin 03:50:58 (shift k (cons 1 (k (void)))) ;; (1) 03:50:58 null)) 03:51:02 thanks Bike 03:51:16 doesthiswork: begin has a particular evaluation order, thugh 03:51:18 though* 03:51:26 oerjan: but they're more composable! 03:51:34 oerjan: how so? 03:51:48 kmc: you can simulate state with them 03:52:47 like using them for yield? 03:53:11 i don't actually know how it works, i just read you can 03:53:26 i think you can do that with normal continuations too 03:53:43 fuck this im goin back to pron 03:53:50 goin back to prawns 03:53:52 you can implement coroutines right 03:54:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:54:07 and you can implement a ref cell with a thread and that works even in cooperative threading 03:54:11 you need mutable variables to simulated delimited continuations with only undelimited ones 03:54:42 bike: list doesn't have an evaluation order? 03:55:29 not in scheme? 03:55:52 I'm in cl 03:56:03 well what ever nerd 03:56:17 list is a function and so has unspec. eval order in scheme 03:56:58 what would be the point of faking delimited continuations in scheme. Someone else has already implemented them 03:57:33 because it's a scheme tradition to implement everything a hundred times 03:58:13 I suppose it is, they sound like forth-ers in that way. 03:59:26 the nice thing about faking with macros is I can see the intermediate steps 04:02:42 argh i forgot to turn off the quick heating mode again 04:03:01 * oerjan cannot even get heating frozen pizza right :P 04:03:54 * pikhq can cook 04:04:00 * pikhq is also eating PB&J. 04:08:08 fortunately it only makes it a bit too charred 04:08:11 but still 04:08:50 nooooooooooooooooooo 04:09:14 wow, you really like pizza 04:09:17 quintopia: you really hate charred pizza? 04:10:14 (only on the edge) 04:10:27 oerjan: i really hate that i can't solve this stupid problem 04:10:48 is it still the git problem 04:11:50 doesthiswork: actually i only eat it once a month or so 04:12:39 i just seem to mention it here, every time. 04:16:47 -!- glogbackup has joined. 04:17:30 !logs 04:19:08 @ask Gregor why do you let poor glogbackup outright lie (twice!) in its !logs message 04:19:08 Consider it noted. 04:19:23 !logs 04:23:34 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 04:25:11 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:27:51 @tell mroman Navier-Stokes sounds sciency <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_existence_and_smoothness 04:27:51 Consider it noted. 04:30:32 huh, i didn't know hamilton tried to make 3ions for path finding <-- do you have some link about this? 04:31:40 oerjan: i'm looking for a program that can be proved nonterminating in higher-order logics, but not in ZF/FOL 04:32:09 finding one that is terminating and can't be proved so is easy, but the nonterminating one is killing me 04:32:31 (i say easy because there's a wikipedia article telling how to do it) 04:32:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:33:36 biiiiiiiiiike 04:34:10 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:34:33 -!- Bike has joined. 04:35:51 biiiiiiiiiike 04:36:00 get a bouncer or a reliable server 04:36:07 huh, i didn't know hamilton tried to make 3ions for path finding <-- do you have some link about this? 04:36:50 quintopia: searching for an inconsistency in ZF/FOL should do the trick. 04:37:02 (by gödel's second incompleteness theorem) 04:37:18 Maybe main has the wrong type 04:37:27 Maybe it should be main :: CompileTimeIO (IO ()) 04:37:45 CompileTimeIO being IO enriched with metaprogramming stuff, perhaps 04:37:50 quintopia: assuming your higher-order logic proves ZF/FOL consistent, that is. 04:38:20 oerjan: so does that mean searching for a proof that ZF is consistent? 04:39:01 oerjan: by checking all proofs to see if they prove it 04:39:34 kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icosian_calculus 04:39:59 nice, thx 04:40:02 quintopia: no. searching for a proof it _isn't_. 04:40:42 quintopia: or to be precise, enumerating all theorems of ZF/FOL and halting once you find a contradiction. 04:41:07 though i think i might have gotten the order backwards. 04:41:36 oerjan: ah. because there are no contradictions, but ZF doesn't know that. got it. 04:41:42 right 04:42:24 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:42:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_group#Hyperbolic_plane pretty 04:42:58 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:45:03 kmc: check out this page then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_tilings_in_hyperbolic_plane 04:45:33 (discussed here previously iirc) 04:47:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:53:04 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:55:55 oerjan: okay check my latest update on Onoz and make sure i did it right plox kthx 04:57:55 argh 04:58:25 i am coincidenaltiay on the page 04:59:51 quintopia: i don't you can check whether something is a valid godel number of a theorem. 05:00:14 what you need to do is check whether something is a valid godel number of a _proof_. 05:00:35 and whether that proof then ends in a contradiction. 05:00:58 *i don't think 05:01:42 i suppose that's a bit simpler than what i said above 05:02:26 more pretty! 05:03:06 oh okay so i could just let S be the program that checks the nth number and whether the result of that proof is that true=false? 05:03:19 yeah that would be enough 05:03:35 um except hm 05:04:37 the outer loop gives S every number n in order as long as a contradiction isn't found, right? 05:05:21 yes 05:05:45 the outer loop also prints 1 05:08:13 ok i think the idea is sound as written now. 05:16:12 > compare <$> [(0/0),0] <*> [(0/0),0] 05:16:14 [GT,GT,GT,EQ] 05:17:04 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: No route to host). 05:20:58 i feel like we shouldn't have to tag Uncomputable languages as Unimplemented. Uncomputable should be a subcategory of Unimplemented or something. 05:21:09 heh 05:21:12 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:21:22 that sounds like a challenge 05:21:43 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:22:10 Bike: okay. i'll give you a million dollars for a working implementation of any uncomputable language. :D 05:26:02 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:34:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:35:12 -!- augur has joined. 05:35:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:35:19 -!- augur has joined. 05:49:36 which user was it that put a table of bf interpreter speeds on various problems on their user page? 05:50:20 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:59:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Rdebath#Performance_Matrix 05:59:18 quintopia: ^ 06:03:44 oerjan: i was thinking of david_werecat's bfbench 06:03:56 wow, what is that? 06:04:12 but this one looks more complete 06:05:40 what is bcci in the top row? 06:06:26 bcci seems to perform extraordinally in some tests and horribly in others 06:08:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Brainfuck#Interpreter.2Fcompiler_speed_test 06:08:37 "bcci: written to enforce the very strict portability rules of the BCC (a contest), and compute scores. " 06:09:09 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/bcci.c got it. 06:10:06 urgh, is sprunge still down 06:10:17 I always wanted to rewrite esotope-bfc for new decades ;) 06:10:43 yes. shit. 06:10:44 (and f*ck the python, python really is not a language for writing PL implementations) 06:12:40 quintopia: http://pastebin.com/PEpjaJRv that was fun. 06:15:40 yeah. pastie was slightly less annoying ime 06:18:55 Bike: please demonstrate that this implementation works by using it to decide some uncomputable problem 06:19:18 psh, what do you take me for? an engineer? i ain't need no tests. 06:20:10 if you really wanted you could try a few programs. anything in brainfuck, for example. 06:20:37 okay i've got one to test 06:21:04 please point me to a CLooP interpreter so that i may test it 06:21:47 do i gotta do everything 06:22:14 (also you should post it on the wiki if you haven't already. nice program.) 06:22:39 i guess i oughta get around to making an account some time 06:23:23 ... 06:23:27 what? 06:23:40 you just surprised me there 06:23:51 i figured you had an account 06:23:59 nope. i'm a parasite on this channel. 06:24:42 @ask ais523 just tested out your account creation question thing. it asked me when Somnypna was created and i said Homfrog and got rejected. 06:24:42 Consider it noted. 06:25:48 shocking 06:28:07 urgh, how do you do code blocks 06:29:38 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:30:06 there. 06:30:44 Code::Blocks. 06:32:45 hmm. why is it that pforeach(infinity) is uncomputable? it seems like it should be possible to have an unbounded number of threads executing concurrently. indeed, executing the first thread on odd cycles, the second on 2 mod 4 cycles, the third on 4 mod 8 cycles, etc. should ensure that every natural numbered thread gets executed an unbounded number of times... 06:33:09 or do i misunderstand something 06:33:11 it mentions it takes finite time. 06:33:39 the language seems maybe 80% baked at best. i just picked the first one in the uncomputable category that looked good. 06:33:43 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:34:18 yeah but if you picked one that was mislabelled... 06:34:27 then your implementation is broken 06:34:45 but i guess the finite time thing 06:35:21 i shall define DLooP, "like CLooP but works" 06:35:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:36:11 i made a mistake anyway. 06:36:44 yeah i think the spec is borked. it doesn't say in the description of pforeach it finishes in finite time no matter what. it just says later it inherently does infinite work in finite time 06:36:54 yeah. 06:36:57 i was going off that. 06:37:06 seemed to be the intent since they put it under uncomputable. 06:37:12 well maybe we should just edit the page 06:37:46 to indicate that pforeach is guaranteed to take no longer than a constant times any one thread it is executing 06:38:10 then it will be able to do nondeterminstic computation in hyper mode 06:38:47 how about "if the block would halt for any value of the loop variable, the pforeach as a whole will halt." 06:38:54 for all values*, rather 06:39:18 in the range? probably specify that it just has to be values in the range 06:39:46 that's equivalent to my version, so whatever you like 06:39:59 i ain't editing it, i already dida ll this work 06:40:13 and i'm depressed since this means i have less excuse to sort out my own ideas enough to put them on the wiki 06:41:41 i think i will have to make it graphical and that means mspaint 06:42:13 you mean less excuse not to? 06:42:18 or more excuse to? 06:42:44 less excuse not to, yeah 06:44:00 then you shouldn't be depressed 06:44:04 you should be excited 06:44:23 i'm a bike. i'm incapable of feeling any emotion, let alone excitement. 06:44:45 you are capable of feeling motion 06:44:51 fast motion! 06:44:58 excitement is not a motion 06:44:59 are you the town bike? 06:45:25 yes, the demographics are very skewed towards sapient colors and dryer sheets in this town 06:45:47 so you give everyone a ride for free? 06:45:58 if they're polite about it and i'm not busy 06:46:15 wow. such kind. 06:46:25 damn straight 06:46:36 still 06:46:44 you don't need mspaint 06:46:50 why do you need graphics 06:47:24 because the language i'm thinking of would probably be easiest to hammer out as schematics rather than something text-based. 06:47:36 -!- oklopol has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:47:48 you could use unicode boxes. i hear that's the cool thing now. 06:48:23 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:50:51 i'm thinking of making a program which is like mspaint but with unicode 06:51:07 fun, right 06:51:20 wlel i don't have mspaint anyway. this is linux. 07:13:54 oh look someone has made something similar already 07:13:57 http://www.jave.de/ 07:14:10 i can just steal their code and port it 07:29:48 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:33:31 -!- CADD has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:36:21 Bah, JavE. Truu ANSI artists do it in ACiDDraw. 07:36:33 Or maybe that's "trü". 07:41:03 fungot sp. 07:41:03 kmc: what have you. you have to 07:43:06 fungot: agaricales sensu lato 07:43:06 kmc: does it true? how could a glass be yelling??? fnord 07:43:34 you shouldn't feed fungot those agaricales hth 07:43:34 oerjan: be without brainfuck code running functionality? 07:44:09 so, should i take Category:Unimplemented off of Brainhype 07:45:51 oerjan: why not feed fungus to the fungot 07:45:51 kmc: still a chance work visa won't go through but it's looking like a lot of languages 07:47:07 kmc: because e's high enough already 07:47:29 you just assume the mushrooms i have are hallucinogenic 07:47:34 fungot agaric 07:47:34 Bike: there must be another one? lol 07:47:35 it's like i have a reputation or something 07:47:48 shocking 07:48:24 we planted a bed of wine caps (Stropharia rugosoannulata) in the backyard today 07:48:33 might bear fruits in 4 or 5 months 08:00:08 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 08:00:33 p. sure wine bottles don't work that way 08:01:34 -!- impomatic has joined. 08:05:01 -!- carado has joined. 08:08:07 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:16:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:19:53 Pro tip: don’t force a rubber bottle cap in if it’s difficult to get out. 08:20:23 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 08:27:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:27:54 GOT IT 08:38:03 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:56:11 -!- atriq has joined. 08:56:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:56:33 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 09:05:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:22:52 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:24:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:43:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:56:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:57:28 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:57:53 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 10:02:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 243 seconds). 10:06:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:09:13 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:14:15 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:27:17 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:06:20 -!- Slereah has joined. 11:07:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:13:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:18:35 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:19:16 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:24:54 -!- carado has joined. 11:44:04 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 11:54:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:05:05 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 12:06:11 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 12:18:30 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:27:36 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 12:27:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:27:46 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 12:58:26 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 13:04:02 -!- boily has joined. 13:04:36 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:05:04 good redactyled morning! 13:13:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:29:43 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:33:40 what 13:33:48 what is metasepia up to today 13:34:28 eh? 13:34:36 metasepia is the same as ever. 13:36:26 what are you up to today 13:36:42 pythoning? 13:40:31 pythoning, xmling, javascripting, gitting, teaeing... 13:40:58 also, not freezing my fungots off. it's cold outside. 13:40:59 boily: although i think exists? and suppose it doesnt use and as operators right? 13:40:59 ~metar CYUL 13:41:00 CYUL 171335Z 02007KT 4SM HZ FEW004 FEW090 SCT240 M20/M23 A3022 RMK SF1AC1CI2 SF TR SLP238 13:41:30 yeah i saw the weather reports for your southerly neighbor's frozen northern bits 13:41:33 it looks awful 13:42:44 ~metar KBGR 13:42:48 KBGR 171253Z 00000KT 10SM CLR M24/M27 A3030 RMK AO2 SLP267 T12441272 13:43:00 eeeek. it's even frozenier in Maine. 13:43:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:44:55 vurrah cold 13:45:17 ~metar KMHT 13:45:20 what is teae 13:45:27 KMHT 171253Z 03005KT 10SM FEW200 FEW250 M18/M22 A3024 RMK AO2 SLP264 T11781217 13:45:59 it's only tea. I couldn't resist the Appeal of stringing vowels together. 13:46:19 teaeaeaeaeaeaing 13:47:03 teæ+ing. 13:47:08 ~metar KBVT 13:47:09 --- Station not found! 13:47:12 uh? 13:47:17 ~metar KBTV 13:47:18 KBTV 171254Z 09004KT 10SM FEW120 M22/M24 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP242 T12171244 13:47:37 better 13:50:22 ~metar EFHK 13:50:26 EFHK 171320Z 24007KT 9999 FEW014 BKN150 03/01 Q1009 NOSIG 13:50:26 Whereas here... 13:50:56 No snow for this christmas season. 13:51:31 wow 13:52:09 we had a 30 cm snowstorm last Sunday. the City expects it to be shovelled away by next Monday. 13:55:18 On average one out of three christmases are snowless in Helsinki. 13:55:24 Of course this is the south end of Finland. 13:55:35 ~metar EFRO 13:55:49 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:56:02 metasepia: Well be like that then, see if I care! 13:56:07 EFRO 171350Z AUTO 23011KT CAVOK M04/M04 Q0996 13:56:22 Thank you. 13:56:40 i'm no better at reading those things 13:56:50 i guess the KT part is temp 13:57:06 The M04/M04 part is. 13:57:17 min and max? 13:57:22 Temperature and dew point; with M for a minus sign. 13:57:38 23011KT means a wind of 11 knots from direction 230. 13:57:51 oh 13:57:54 yeah 13:59:20 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 14:00:31 And the Q/A part is barometric pressure, with Q denoting some sensible metric unit (millibar?) and A something inch-based. 14:00:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]). 14:00:56 inHg, maybe. 14:02:52 Annnn is inHg, with pressure calibrated for airfield altitude. 14:02:53 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 14:03:10 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 14:03:11 Qnnnn is pressure in hPa, with pressure calibrated for mean sea level. 14:03:35 SLPnnn is also in hPa, but with the first digit chopped of, and a precision of daPa. 14:04:33 -!- muskrat has quit (Client Quit). 14:11:44 Snow depth at EFHK at christmas eve: 2009 30 cm, 2010 40 cm, 2011 0 cm, 2012 55 cm, 2013 most likely 0. 14:12:02 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:13:40 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:16:15 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:16:30 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:16:55 i'm going to fall asleep in my chair 14:22:14 * boily gently mapoles quintopia to keep him awake. 14:41:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:48:57 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 14:55:40 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:57:26 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:08:54 -!- muskrat has joined. 15:14:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:17:36 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:26:48 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:28:56 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:31:31 well i'm gonna get a passport at least 15:31:38 -!- yorick has joined. 15:33:02 quintopia: oh! will you visit Canada? 15:34:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:35:21 I've only done minimal testing on this, so don't use it to fly airplanes (in fact, please don't use /any/ Sudoku player to fly airplanes) 15:35:48 @ask Bike were you expecting that to be the correct answer? 15:35:48 Consider it noted. 15:41:11 -!- taylanub has joined. 15:48:47 `relcome taylanub 15:48:52 ​taylanub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:49:49 Dark blue text on black background isn't very nice. 15:50:15 `welcome taylanub 15:50:17 taylanub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:01:19 INTERCAL is really great 16:02:05 I have a ping set on INTERCAL 16:02:09 admittedly, it comes up in here more than in other channels 16:02:16 but when it comes up elsewhere, I want to be notified 16:02:28 But it seems like 90% of esolangs are brainfuck clones. And maybe unlambda. 16:02:40 that's sadly a mostly accurate description 16:02:40 Are there any actually interesting ones ?.. 16:02:44 yes, they're just hard to find 16:02:47 my best is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload 16:02:52 which is not a brainfuck clone at all 16:03:02 there are other interesting languages by other people 16:03:28 you can even find interesting brainfuck derivatives if you look hard enough, such as http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust or http://esolangs.org/wiki/Paintfuck 16:03:35 but they're much rarer than the uninteresting ones 16:03:51 what's that new language by Keymaker? I really like that one 16:04:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:04:28 oh right, Etre 16:07:47 ais523: Oh shit .. Underload basically coalesces data and program ? 16:07:58 taylanub: yes 16:08:08 Neat 16:08:25 the most practical ways of storing data are as program fragments 16:13:32 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 16:19:14 hmm, I like the ambiguity in the name "LinearInterpol" 16:19:25 is it a truncated form of "linear interpolation"? 16:19:42 or is it a form of international police who have can only use each datum of information they're given exactly once? 16:19:45 *who can 16:20:22 lol. 16:20:34 ais523: that's the beauty of it! 16:20:46 yeah, I said I liked it 16:21:10 I've been assuming the latter, FWIW. 16:22:33 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:22:43 (Perhaps it's some kind of an ad-hoc linguistic interpretation experiment.) 16:23:02 fizzie: but you work in linguistics, so you would assume that 16:23:15 whereas I went to a bounded linear logic conference recently 16:23:24 * ais523 gives LinearInterpol a bounded exponential comonad 16:24:03 it's also an anagram of "I, Patroller Nine".. perhaps your police idea has some weight 16:25:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:28:42 less formally, linear interpol may have a one-track mind. 16:29:25 I lack depth. 16:30:29 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:30:43 -!- nanii has joined. 16:31:37 hola 16:34:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:34:21 -!- augur has joined. 16:42:37 boily: i'll only come to canada if it's not the french part :D 16:43:22 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:44:02 @tell CADD http://mroman.ch/VA/ <- the documentation of our emulator thingy 16:44:02 Consider it noted. 16:44:08 I think he was called CADD 16:44:34 emulator thingy eh 16:47:05 si 16:47:13 It is called emulathor 16:47:48 `relcome nanii 16:47:51 ​nanii: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:47:57 `? welcome.es 16:47:59 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 16:48:09 *------------* 16:48:18 @tell lambdabot tell lambdabot tell doesthiswork hi 16:48:19 Nice try ;) 16:48:28 quintopia: la partie française est la plus mieux meilleure partie du Canada :P 16:48:50 hola soy de venezuela *--* 16:49:29 boily: if you say so 16:49:36 no hablamos espanol 16:49:39 ayay 16:49:53 That leaves the question 16:49:59 quien hable espanol 16:50:38 you need a couple of question marks to ask that 16:50:53 nanii: hablo un poquito de español. ¿habla usted francés? 16:51:03 yo no hablo ingles 16:51:53 boily no frances no pero creo que puedo hacer algo 16:52:45 nanii: ¿ha visitado el wiki? 16:52:45 Yeah 16:52:56 You need even some *** up inversed question marks 16:52:58 noo :( 16:53:01 Just to screw with your mind. 16:53:15 Although I can see how they are useful 16:53:27 You immediately know that there's a question. 16:53:56 mroman: not only that, but you can wrap the part of the sentence that is actually a question. same thing with ¡!. 16:54:06 Yeah 16:54:16 Then explain why is there no inversed dot? 16:54:23 ;) 16:54:38 * boily twitches... “urge to mapole mroman rising” 16:54:56 coincidally I had an oral spanish exam today 16:55:02 I barely passed 16:55:04 but I passed 16:55:16 or is that incidally 16:55:37 only if you reverse the direction of the morphism between you and the exam. 16:55:48 coincidentally 16:57:03 boily: Which wouldn't matter if they're homomorphisms 16:57:27 ˙ 16:57:31 -!- ^v has joined. 16:57:57 In English every odd number contains an `e'. 16:57:59 cute 16:58:27 in English, every x, y s.t. |x - y| = 1, share a letter. 16:59:10 hm 16:59:15 *isomorphisms 16:59:21 boily: :D 16:59:29 Well most numbers contain an e already 16:59:35 There's like 16:59:39 six. 16:59:41 epaa 16:59:42 http://oeis.org/A006933 16:59:46 four, six 16:59:50 That's about it 16:59:52 That do not 16:59:53 nooodl: ¿qué es un "epaa"? 17:00:08 (thanks oeis. jesus.) 17:00:17 Slereah_: two. a million. 17:00:26 Do you mean 17:00:30 MEELEEON 17:00:34 one million 17:00:36 pues como un hola :D 17:01:02 So it's not *too* surprising that those two things are true 17:01:21 I mean, you only have to do three special cases to check them 17:02:24 kakka rules http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caganer 17:02:25 isomorphisms remind me that I should continue with this category theorey book 17:02:37 > ord 'F' 17:02:38 70 17:02:53 nooodl: two million then, still no 'e'. 17:03:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:03:06 http://mroman.ch/beweise/cat.pdf <- isomorhpisms is where I got stuck apparentely 17:05:29 2.1 17:05:30 3.10 17:06:01 probably the number IN the book 17:06:29 -!- nanii has left. 17:07:18 -!- nanii has joined. 17:07:25 -!- nanii has left. 17:08:25 -!- nanii has joined. 17:08:33 -!- nanii has left. 17:08:35 -!- nanii has joined. 17:08:46 -!- nanii has left. 17:08:48 -!- nanii has joined. 17:08:51 -!- nanii has left. 17:11:37 -!- nanii has joined. 17:11:50 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:13:01 What's that thing which means that defining notNull = not . null isn't worth it? 17:13:09 Something like the Fairfax constant? 17:15:12 common sense? 17:15:29 the second word was "threshold" but I can't recall the name. 17:16:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:16:41 -!- nanii has left. 17:17:51 -!- Bike has joined. 17:17:53 :t null 17:17:54 [a] -> Bool 17:18:11 I guess that's checking to see if the list is empty? 17:18:21 yes. 17:18:25 The Threshold of Bel Air 17:18:27 https://31.media.tumblr.com/3f8a2af848fd54d90f58d4367eee0b7f/tumblr_mxrzs6RsbT1sgh0voo1_500.png it was absolutely useless. thanks 17:18:42 hmm, if you had a strict language with side effects, it'd be possible to define that over arbitrary functors 17:19:00 ais523: yes, because i wasn't sure about capital letters and the space in the real name 17:19:01 by using fmap with a function with a side effect, then checking to see if that function had run at all 17:19:07 star-tut. hmm. 17:19:44 I don't think it generalizes to functors in general if the language is pure or lazy, though 17:19:58 134%. good jub. 17:20:56 ais523: right. Foldable is the right abstraction here, I think. null = fold (\_ _ -> False) True 17:20:59 (if it's lazy, there's nothing implying that it's even possible to force the functors in order to make the functions run; if it's pure, then you need to know about the structure of the functor to have any way to observe the behaviour of your function) 17:22:30 (where fold is one of foldr or foldl, not the monoid foundational one from the type class) 17:23:11 does it have to be r/l? 17:23:14 what about a symmetric fold? 17:23:17 or binary tree fold? 17:23:35 fold :: Data.Monoid.Monoid m => t m -> m allows all of those 17:24:08 hola soy de venezuela *--* <-- why is it always venezuela 17:25:08 well, it's pretty big. 17:25:41 :t fold 17:25:42 (Foldable t, Monoid m) => t m -> m 17:25:58 > fold [3,7,19] 17:25:59 No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid a0) 17:26:00 arising from a use of `e_13719' 17:26:00 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 17:26:00 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 17:26:00 Note: there are several potential instances: 17:26:06 @type (\(Endo g) -> g b) . fold . (map (Endo . f)) 17:26:07 Show a => [a] -> Expr 17:26:23 @type \f b -> (\(Endo g) -> g b) . fold . (map (Endo . f)) 17:26:24 (a -> c -> c) -> c -> [a] -> c 17:26:33 that should be foldr. 17:26:52 > fold "Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me" 17:26:53 No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Char) 17:26:54 arising from a use of `Data.Foldable.fold' 17:26:54 Possible fix: 17:26:54 add an instance declaration for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Char) 17:27:34 (and foldl is essentially the same with a 'Dual' thrown into the mix) 17:28:04 > fold $ map Sum [1..10] 17:28:05 Sum {getSum = 55} 17:28:18 > fold $ map Product [1..10] 17:28:19 Product {getProduct = 3628800} 17:29:05 > getDual . fold . map Dual $ [[1,2],[3,4],[5,6,7,8]] 17:29:07 [5,6,7,8,3,4,1,2] 17:29:44 ('fold' on lists of lists is just 'concat') 17:30:49 > ($ 0) . appEndo . fold . map (Endo . (+)) $ [1..10]] 17:30:50 :1:52: parse error on input `]' 17:30:51 > ($ 0) . appEndo . fold . map (Endo . (+)) $ [1..10] 17:30:52 55 17:31:27 > ($ 0) . appEndo . fold . map (Endo . (-)) $ [1..10] 17:31:28 -5 17:31:39 > ($ 0) . appEndo . getDual . fold . map (Dual . Endo . (-)) $ [1..10] 17:31:40 5 17:31:43 int-e: psst there's foldMap 17:33:32 I wonder why. It saves what, 3 characters? 17:33:52 well i think it's a method 17:34:02 so it might also save efficiency 17:34:31 ideally you would want null defined so that it short circuits no matter what way the data structure is folded. 17:34:54 i don't think this can be done with a valid Monoid instance, although you can easily use a broken one 17:35:02 > expr . ($ 0) . appEndo . getDual . fold . map (Dual . Endo . (+)) $ [1..6] 17:35:03 6 + (5 + (4 + (3 + (2 + (1 + 0))))) 17:35:17 > expr . ($ 0) . appEndo . getDual . fold . map (Dual . Endo . flip (+)) $ [1..6] 17:35:19 0 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 17:35:31 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 17:35:34 > expr . ($ 0) . appEndo . fold . map (Endo (+)) $ [1..6] 17:35:35 Couldn't match expected type `a0 17:35:35 -> Data.Monoid.Endo Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.E... 17:35:35 with actual type `Data.Monoid.Endo a1' 17:35:41 > expr . ($ 0) . appEndo . fold . map (Endo . (+)) $ [1..6] 17:35:42 1 + (2 + (3 + (4 + (5 + (6 + 0))))) 17:35:45 instance Monoid Bool where mempty = True; mappend = const (const False) 17:36:05 -!- Bike has joined. 17:36:20 null = foldMap (const False) 17:36:33 ok. so those are foldl and foldr (once you abstract from '0' and '(+)') 17:37:15 nah. 17:37:45 null = getAny . foldMap (const (Any False)) 17:38:02 no. 17:38:22 haha. I need getAll / All. That was stupid. 17:39:28 int-e: um Any won't work, the point is mappend should be entirely ignoring its arguments 17:39:51 thus allowing perfect shortcutting regardless of order 17:39:58 > map (getAll . foldMap (\_ -> All False)) [[],[1]] 17:39:59 [True,False] 17:40:12 oerjan: Bool has no Monoid instance. 17:40:24 int-e: you didn't read what i wrote above 17:40:43 oerjan: true. 17:41:24 In any case, there is a good reason for having the newtype All instead. And the compiler should be smart enough to do the right thing *if* it unfolds the recursive 'foldMap' at all. 17:41:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:41:31 in any case, you _cannot_ do this with a valid Monoid instance, because it's inconsistent with the Monoid laws to have mappend = const (const x) for x not mempty 17:41:33 @type isJust . getFirst . foldMap (First . Just) 17:41:34 Foldable t => t a -> Bool 17:41:58 int-e: um it should work for _infinite_ structures. 17:42:12 including Foldable infinite trees. 17:42:13 > isJust . getFirst . foldMap (First . Just) $ [1..] 17:42:14 True 17:42:19 > isJust . getFirst . foldMap (First . Just) $ [ 17:42:20 :1:47: 17:42:20 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 17:42:21 -!- Bike has joined. 17:42:21 > isJust . getFirst . foldMap (First . Just) $ [] 17:42:22 False 17:42:29 @type Node 17:42:30 a -> Forest a -> Tree a 17:42:33 > map (getAll . foldMap (\_ -> All False)) [[],[1..]] -- hmm. but I see your point. 17:42:34 [True,False] 17:43:49 oerjan: but that means it's not a valid 'null' either. You could have something like data Tree a = Node (Tree a) (Tree a) | Hole | Leaf a, and then null (Tree Hole Hole) should presumably be False. 17:44:28 > isJust . getFirst . foldMap (First . Just) $ unfoldTree (\() -> ((),repeat ()) () 17:44:29 (I imagine that fold (Node l r) = fold l `mappend` fold r) 17:44:29 :1:82: 17:44:29 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 17:44:34 > isJust . getFirst . foldMap (First . Just) $ unfoldTree (\() -> ((),repeat ())) () 17:44:36 True 17:44:55 int-e: yes, null (Tree hole hole) would be False with my definition. 17:45:40 oerjan: sorry, but I meant to write that null (Tree Hole Hole) should be True. 17:45:42 i suppose that shows how Foldables don't make sense without a true Monoid, though. 17:45:56 Hang on, what are we trying to do here? 17:45:58 * int-e isn't good with negations. 17:46:24 Taneb: writing a Foldable null that short circuits for _both_ infinite leftwards and rightwards structures. 17:46:45 Aaaaah 17:47:23 and even infinite binary ones, although int-e makes a good argument there should be _some_ leaves hit 17:48:11 http://docs.racket-lang.org/unstable/2d.html 17:49:38 kmc: that's something. 17:49:54 yeah. cute. 17:51:09 Hahaha, neat. 17:53:16 I'm a-maze-d. 17:54:28 int-e: i guess you need a bidirectionally shortcutting (||) for this. (there's some concurrent unsafe implementation of that) 17:55:03 oerjan: yes, http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unamb ... it's horrible. 17:55:46 oh unamb it was, i tried searching for amb 17:56:03 ( a ||| b = (a || b) `unamb` (b || a) ) 17:56:40 it should work nicely for purely left or rightward branching, i think. 17:57:06 Well, 'nicely' ... it forks too much. 17:57:27 well i mean one of them will finish fast 17:58:09 It's a bit of a pity that concurrency is (as far as I can see) the only way to implement such a function. It's so nice in theory. 17:58:13 hm i suppose what you want to do is ensure each of a and b is only evaluated once. i think there's a ghc function for that. 17:58:39 -!- Lemuriano has joined. 17:59:01 ghc's runtime almost always ensures that, because thunks are replaced by black holes when entered. There's a small window where computations may get duplicated. 17:59:39 i suppose the problem appears when both a and b take long to finish, hm 17:59:47 which doesn't shortcut much :P 18:00:08 (In IO there is 'nodup' which fully ensures this, by taking a lock on the closure. It's required to make unsafePerformIO a bit safer.) 18:00:50 i wrote a bunch of words about that here http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2011/10/thunks-and-lazy-blackholes-introduction.html 18:02:08 yay, I finally managed to reproduce that bizarre situation that I set up with weboflies a while ago: http://sprunge.us/fLSN 18:02:18 however, ptrace has since been fixed to not override SIGKILL 18:02:30 so it doesn't lead to an actually unkillable process 18:02:35 Death under ptrace 18:03:02 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/8502 was my last encounter with the perils of unsafeDupablePerformIO (which is unsafePerformIO without the 'nodup' lock) 18:03:45 int-e: isn't that pretty much asking for your I/O to happen an unpredictable number of times? 18:04:20 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 18:04:48 I guess I might not have guessed "non-integer", though 18:05:28 ais523: yes. but it wasn't asking for the computation to be silently stopped in the middle, circumventing the 'withMVar' abstraction for exception safety. 18:05:57 > 144^2 * 5 18:05:58 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:05:58 103680 18:06:10 > 144**2 * 5 18:06:11 103680.0 18:06:29 ilu exponentiation 18:06:29 -!- ^v has joined. 18:06:33 huh, somehow I didn't imagine Haskell to have two different exponentiation operators 18:06:37 > 144 `bitxor` 2 * 5 18:06:38 Not in scope: `bitxor' 18:06:42 > 144 `xor` 2 * 5 18:06:43 154 18:06:47 ais523: it has three :) 18:06:55 @type ((^),(^^),(**)) 18:06:56 (Floating a2, Fractional a1, Integral b, Integral b1, Num a) => (a -> b -> a, a1 -> b1 -> a1, a2 -> a2 -> a2) 18:07:33 (^^ allows negative integer exponents) 18:08:14 ~eval 5 ^^ -1 18:08:15 Error (1): Precedence parsing error 18:08:15 cannot mix `GHC.Real.^^' [infixr 8] and prefix `-' [infixl 6] in the same infix expression 18:08:18 so "b" isn't a "PositiveIntegral" type, then? 18:08:25 ~eval 5 ^^ (-1) 18:08:26 0.2 18:08:35 admittedly, the only language I can think of where that works is ADA (and VHDL by implication) 18:08:36 sounds like *gasp* subtyping 18:08:57 ~eval 5 ^ (-1) 18:08:57 Error (1): *Exception: Negative exponent 18:09:16 ~eval 5 ** (-1) 18:09:17 0.2 18:09:52 ~eval (2 :+ 3) ** (3 :+ 2) 18:09:53 4.714143528054687 :+ (-4.569827583124736) 18:09:54 > (-5) ** (-2) -- hmm. 18:09:55 4.0e-2 18:10:19 > 0 ** 0 18:10:20 1.0 18:10:30 fungot: 0 ** 0 18:10:30 boily: scheme evaluation order, so it probably isn't). 18:10:46 lambdabot: fungot sez that 0 ** 0 isn't 1.0. 18:10:46 boily: best would be if it wasn't clear 18:11:02 fungot: of course it isn't clear, it's 0⁰. 18:11:02 boily: my computer's too sleepy. i am always looking at source code by mistake and even more fun than coding". perfect industrial language: enforce a style onto the programmer to give the standard bindings the extended meanings from srfi 1 18:14:17 @type ((^), (^^)) 18:14:18 (Fractional a1, Integral b, Integral b1, Num a) => (a -> b -> a, a1 -> b1 -> a1) 18:16:15 Oh, the type was already there. 18:16:31 Bah, reading more than a dozen line backwards is for losers. 18:16:59 0 to the power of 0 is or isn't 1 depending on what you're doing 18:17:19 thank's 18:17:40 it's never anything other than 1, but it isn't necessarily always 1 either 18:17:57 fungot: Your computer doesn't really have any kind of power management thing going on, I don't see how it's "too sleepy". 18:17:57 fizzie: so, where's your editor? 18:18:05 FreeFull: trdnh. 18:18:08 ais523: tdnhe. 18:18:09 fungot: Is this some kind of trash talk? 18:18:09 fizzie: maybe you need another half a dozen city centers 18:18:26 Yeah, maybe! 18:18:28 assuming the fungotputer is just strapped right to mains 18:18:29 Bike: cl definitely defines ' first'. although there is also a director who makes videos for people like smerdyakov climb up and spend their time in irc rooms dedicated to technical computery subjects, have never heard of 18:18:53 trdnh? 18:19:08 that really did not help. 18:19:26 The fungotputer goes at 3200 bogomips all the time. 18:19:27 fizzie: don't think so... i haven't been 18:19:38 > 0^0 18:19:39 1 18:19:40 fungot: Yeah, well, how'd *you* know? 18:19:40 fizzie: after that i can see the rules of static typing that i've ever known him too well, only 2 hours to find i had like 10k lines of pretty slick c o.o 18:19:44 > 0^^0 18:19:45 1.0 18:20:28 Truth revealed: fungot not written in Befunge, fungot instead written as 10k lines of "pretty slick" C. 18:20:29 fizzie: i am adding that now. i'm gonna install freebsd once i find fnord 18:21:04 (Some day I'll wake up to find a FreeBSD installation.) 18:21:09 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 18:21:20 fungot: find: "fnord": Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type 18:21:21 boily: i am a person with the most recent one? 18:21:22 Are the 10k lines actually an implementation of befunge? 18:21:27 fungot: oh. savvy of you. 18:21:28 boily: it's about to become negative for the first fnord return value' value doesn't print like that when reading 18:22:00 I wonder what fungot thinks about 'Qzyzzalroum' 18:22:00 int-e: so it could be anywhere from 29 bits to 36 with that information. for example, you have 1 message. 18:22:46 FreeFull: cfunge's written in C, and is approximately somewhere in that ballpark, so maybe that's what it was talking about. (Straight "wc -l" over all *.[ch] says 20039.) 18:22:54 (I have this quote on file: What does "Qzyzzalroum" mean in English usage? -- It means you should start the crossword over.) 18:23:38 ~duck qzyzzalroum 18:23:53 --- No relevant information 18:24:52 A rouming duck. 18:26:37 http://users.iafrica.com/p/pf/pfm/quotes.txt - this would fit here, I think: "I feel like if Atlanta had just tried a little harder it could have been a palindrome." 18:27:03 atlanalta 18:27:14 I can see why it's not a palindrome 18:27:15 It'd contain anal 18:27:32 god forbid. 18:28:01 Now, why isn't palindrome a palindrome? 18:28:08 palindromemordnilap 18:28:11 Super-strong neodymium magnets https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5Q6sbgSWtxn-CTaTLslOy558OrEwmX7U 18:28:20 because it is constructed from usual roots. 18:29:29 Authentic Atlantan Usual Root, perfect for seasoning your regular meals! 18:29:51 If Eodermdrome had just tried a little harder it could have been a palindrome. 18:30:16 fizzie: it couldn't be minimal-length and also a palindrome 18:30:34 actually, being a palindrome is actively hostile to being nonplanar 18:30:38 ion: haha the second one 18:30:44 because half the characters are wasted 18:30:52 so you can't do better than Eodermdromemordmredoe 18:31:35 Where did the name come from, again? 18:34:44 wow they have same day delivery 18:34:49 for uh, magnets. emergency magnets? 18:35:53 i'm pretty sure you could make a good action movie about most situations that would require you have a 300 N neodynium magnet within twenty-four hours 18:36:42 -!- nanii has joined. 18:36:54 -!- nanii has left. 18:36:55 -!- nanii has joined. 18:37:02 -!- nanii has left. 18:37:57 if you already have an already strong enough magnet at hand, you could acquire all of the world's magnets just by waving it over your head and ducking. 18:39:21 see, there you go. 18:40:01 Bike: I don't think the waving and ducking would matter much 18:40:26 fizzie: a book about wordplay, which mentioned an existing result (from somewhere else) that that pattern of letters was the shortest that lead to a nonplanar graph 18:40:47 the specific letters there are chosen to maximise the pronounceability 18:41:19 (by the original result, I think) 18:42:01 strangely enough, real words tend to be more likely to be nonplanar due to embedding K_3,3 than they are due to embedding K_5 18:42:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:44:21 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:44:44 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 18:55:36 Ah. 19:00:53 -!- Lemuriano has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:05:26 huh, so it seems that the reason that function names in PHP are so inconsistent is that they were chosen to avoid hash collisions in the early versions 19:05:37 and the hash function was heavily based on strlen 19:05:45 what. 19:06:14 yeah, somehow that manages to fit two awful ideas into one sentence 19:06:29 look i've heard that from three different people already and if i refused to acknowledge it from them i'll refuse to acknowledge it from you 19:06:39 * boily bleaches himself 19:07:29 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/e8k4n2mx1y5vsa4/Zrzut%20ekranu%202013-12-17%2008.37.01.png screenshot of the code in question 19:07:42 go find "php-1.99s" if you want to verify 19:08:05 is a screenshot of code somehow more authentic than the text version? 19:08:24 fuuuuuuuucking chrsut 19:08:41 ais523: i can tell by the pixels 19:08:55 * boily then maple syrups himself, for a smooth, perfumed skin and quality hair 19:09:24 ouch, those keys aren't even in alphabetical order 19:09:31 nice, defined as an array cmd_table[22][35] so that the 0 items for length 0 take the space of 35 entries 19:09:36 (or is that 22?) 19:09:46 rasmus lerdorf's excuse that he just made PHP for his own use indicates a shocking lack of self-respect, I would say 19:10:23 now I'm reminded of the joke claim that "C" is a recursive acronym 19:10:26 The screenshot doesn't really look like proof of the claim, though. 19:10:33 i don't want to look into lerdorf's mind 19:10:37 fizzie: the comment at the top is illuminating 19:11:05 ais523: It doesn't say anything about selecting function names in order to optimize the "hash" table, however. 19:11:16 C stands for C.C 19:11:17 ais523: a recursive acronym of? 19:11:35 ◐.◐ 19:11:44 boily: it stands for "C", obviously 19:12:13 fizzie: there's an email from Rasmus Lerdorf going around on Reddit where he/she admits to it 19:12:18 Bike: No manual entry for chrsut 19:12:31 ais523: Well, that's more relevant, certainly. 19:13:21 don't think it's in question that rasmus lerdorf goes by "he" 19:13:37 also he was born in a town named Qeqertarsuaq 19:13:48 greenland? 19:13:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qeqertarsuaq#Notable_current.2Fformer_residents how very sad for them 19:13:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:14:55 Bike: yes 19:16:33 I watche that short video by the beeb yesterday that explains how to pronounce Mandela's name, his native village's name and “xhosa”. 19:16:50 practicing clicks when you take your morning shower makes for a very strange activity. 19:16:56 does english even have the hponeme for 'xhosa' 19:17:02 i'll take that as a no. 19:17:04 *phonemes* 19:17:16 it doesn't. 19:17:20 obviously not 19:17:25 and it's tonal too, huh 19:17:29 and spirant! 19:17:43 i'm used to click constants being spelled ! or double dagger 19:18:10 ∥ĥ 19:18:17 i'm guessing i can blame dumb brits for this 19:18:24 darn. I don't have superscript h readily available. 19:18:32 ah, but only two tones, even we have that many tones 19:18:56 * boily eyes olsner... “you scandinavian!” 19:19:23 holy crap... it has *18* click consonants 19:19:48 it does. it is insane. I need a fternooner to collect myself. 19:22:07 Bike: https://twitter.com/DanaDanger/status/413024939856244736 19:25:29 ._. 19:25:49 "the ǃXóõ language has 83 click sounds, the largest consonant inventory of any known language" o.O 19:27:04 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:27:05 any vowels? 19:27:28 int-e: five, I think 19:28:34 ah, no, five vowel "qualities" ... so 25-30 something vowels apparently 19:28:57 impressive 19:29:48 Hi :-) Any OMEGA players here? (The tank programming game, not the roguelike) 19:31:26 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:41:48 ~duck omega 19:42:02 --- No relevant information 19:42:06 ... 19:42:29 metasepia: it's all greek to you? 19:44:07 ~duck iota 19:44:08 iota definition: the 9th letter of the Greek alphabet. 19:44:21 fungot my life. 19:44:21 boily: c++ c, remember a bit better for the body in the clause test specifications? 19:49:06 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 19:54:07 “Therefore Moser's number, although incomprehensibly large, is vanishingly small compared to Graham's number” ← my brain hurts. 19:55:28 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:56:06 not your fault > is hard to compute on some reprsentations 20:01:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:09:23 oh that sounds like fun 20:14:42 <`^_^v> What programming language should you use in your battles with the judge? Most likely, the language which you know best. The judge currently accepts programs written in C, C++, Pascal, and Java, so your favorite language is probably available. 20:14:47 <`^_^v> :( 20:15:03 no eodermdrome?? 20:15:21 No idris? 20:15:28 no c+=? 20:15:47 four languages? 20:16:09 that's a really small set to include everyone's favourite language 20:16:19 also, I thought Pascal had mostly fallen out of favour before Java was invented 20:16:41 <`^_^v> there are only like 2 online coding competition sites that have an actual variety of languages 20:16:45 <`^_^v> kinda sux 20:17:13 C ate Pascal's lunch 20:17:23 have you seen anarchy golf? 20:17:40 Anarchy golf is one 20:18:31 that seems to accept anything remotely BF-complete that shinh could get to run on the server 20:18:53 should finish my anagol language 20:19:07 and some sub-BF-complete languages like m4 20:20:08 that reminds me: hey, what are some well-known but not 100% trivial sequences/sets of integers. i'm thinking like, fibonacci numbers, prime numbers 20:20:19 thue-morse 20:20:46 that's a neat one because it needs infinite state to compute 20:21:27 although I guess they all do 20:22:07 you could also do the zeros of the Riemann zeta function 20:22:13 that's probably just -2, -4, -6, -8, etc. 20:22:15 but it might not be 20:26:15 digits of pi? 20:26:22 i think i'm gonna give my golf language some built-ins for "is this number prime/fibonacci/..." and "generate the first n prime/fibonacci/... numbers" 20:26:47 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH! 20:26:49 stuff like that shows up quite a bit in code golf 20:27:02 someone know how to import a TTF file into LaTeX? 20:27:07 also i wanna somehow make 2D ascii manipulation easier, but 20:27:34 Digits of pi are pretty arbitrary 20:27:37 Except in base pi 20:27:42 10 20:27:44 pinary 20:31:57 -!- Lemuriano has joined. 20:46:04 (meanwhile, it works! local install, no need to pollute the system texmf → http://fachschaft.physik.uni-greifswald.de/~stitch/ttf.html) 20:47:06 have there been any efforts to make like a "high-level" wrapper over LaTeX 20:47:25 it feels so crufty... i need LaTeX coffeescript basically 20:47:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:47:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:51:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:51:58 -!- Lemuriano has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:52:29 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 20:53:25 douglass_: do you know of any? 21:00:24 I'm really looking forward to the film of Into the Woods 21:01:45 sorry, don't know 21:02:33 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:02:54 ask #latex I guess 21:03:18 nooodl: well I use Markdown for that sometimes, via Pandoc 21:03:35 and you can still embed LaTeX commands for stuff Markdown doesn't handle (as long as you don't need to render the same markdown to HTML too) 21:04:40 bike if we add a shift0 operator that creates a continuation that takes no arguments, then there is a 1 to 1 corrispodence between delimited continuations and lambda calc 21:05:36 curried lambda calc 21:10:20 -!- atriq has joined. 21:13:09 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:17:13 -!- atriq has changed nick to Ngevd. 21:17:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:22:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:23:07 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:23:20 I think I have a bouncer now 21:25:59 ♪ dĩng ♪ improved PDF, now with Old Hylian! 21:27:23 `? category theory 21:27:25 In category theory, category theory is a theory in the category of theories. 21:28:12 as opposed to a theory in the category of prizewinning hams? 21:28:20 Yup 21:28:30 That'd be Hexham theory 21:28:39 Is this related to the ham Homer Simpson won for saving the town 21:29:02 0xHAM 21:30:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYjThRj7uoY 21:30:43 <3 21:31:36 incidentally, github's syntax highlighting doesn't support \verb!stuff! 21:32:30 -!- 36DABZBGX has joined. 21:32:32 FreeFull: you can compute the nth digit of pi in base 16 without computing all the ones before it 21:32:36 `relcome 36DABZBGX 21:32:38 ​36DABZBGX: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:33:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey%E2%80%93Borwein%E2%80%93Plouffe_formula 21:33:08 also, I seem to have lumped lexande and monotone's quotes into the Quotes from Other People section. 21:33:18 @tell lexande would you like your quotes to be nicely sectionned? 21:33:19 Consider it noted. 21:33:31 It's okay, I'm usually an "other people" anyway. 21:33:33 polytone: same thing as to lexande ↑ 21:33:38 oh. 21:33:47 you were quicker than me :P 21:34:13 I forgot that I was even quoted until you mentioned it, haha. 21:34:22 kmc: hells yea pslq 21:34:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:35:06 pslq? 21:35:19 "The search procedure consists of choosing a range of parameter values for s, b, and m, evaluating the sums out to many digits, and then using an integer relation finding algorithm (typically Helaman Ferguson's PSLQ algorithm) to find a vector A that adds up those intermediate sums to a well-known constant or perhaps to zero." 21:35:29 cool 21:35:44 it's an algorithm where you throw a vector of reals at it and it tries to find an algebraic relation between em 21:35:48 neato 21:35:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHICKEN SUSHI). 21:35:53 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:36:04 er, without powers specifically 21:36:18 i mean you can do that by adding to the vector, but 21:36:36 oh LLL is another such algorithm 21:36:49 i've heard of that one, I guess it's good for attacking groups of related RSA keys? 21:38:05 i have this paper where they use it to find the 240-degree polynomial the fourth bifurcation point of the logistic map is a root of 21:38:19 is that useful knowledge 21:38:20 "A notable success of this approach was the use of the PSLQ algorithm to find the integer relation that led to the Bailey-Borwein-Plouffe formula for the value of π." whoa, cool 21:38:46 -!- 36DABZBGX has quit (K-Lined). 21:39:00 kmc: well, they didn't even know for sure it was algebraic, so i guess 21:39:37 -!- muskrat has joined. 21:39:49 PSLQ is really magic 21:39:59 "here's a random irrational-looking number, give me a formula for it" 21:40:09 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:40:12 elliott, kmc~ http://crd.lbl.gov/~dhbailey/dhbpapers/tenproblems.pdf‎ 21:40:21 http://crd.lbl.gov/~dhbailey/dhbpapers/tenproblems.pdf 21:40:22 yeah, that paper is amazing 21:40:24 mysterious. 21:42:04 with guest appearance by khinchin's constant, i might add 21:43:09 it's cool how we can't spell russian names consistently. ever. at all. fuck 21:43:30 Хи́нчин's constant 21:43:35 cooler name imo 21:43:36 analyzing the simpsons for esoteric symbols http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLzhuUdycYQ 21:44:03 kmc: i think you're right 21:44:26 though my favorite value in this paper is the expected value of the distance between two random points on different sides of a square, since it doesn't sound like it should be too strange 21:45:16 -!- Sorella has joined. 21:46:15 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 21:46:16 -!- Sorella has joined. 21:48:02 there's also the sequence of sinc integrals and a triple integral of the inverse of a sum of cosines somehow involving generalized hyperfactorials, i love it <3 21:54:14 Or how e^pi - pi is NOT QUITE 20 21:54:33 i don't think that's actually in the paper, but sure! 21:54:51 Slereah_: the amazing thing is that 20 is EXACTLY 20 21:55:12 can you prove it, 21:55:54 -!- taylanub has left ("Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients"). 21:56:15 nah, I've never learned how to prove stuff 21:56:15 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:58:28 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:58:38 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:58:40 Have mercy internet 22:00:59 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:01:42 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:02:44 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:03:14 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:03:42 The first problem in experimental mathematics is apparently not overfilling LaTeX boxes... 22:05:36 hm? 22:06:24 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:06:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:07:33 Oh, the author line runs straight into the right margin. 22:08:45 -!- Slereah has quit (Client Quit). 22:16:14 kmc: I bet you can do that in every base, but 16 is the easiest 22:16:55 -!- kranchik has joined. 22:22:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:23:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:27:07 -!- kranchik has quit (K-Lined). 22:38:27 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:49:20 base 36 is more fun 22:58:30 http://youtu.be/YA1J-raGinQ 23:05:21 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:05:57 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:14:18 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:27:41 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:33:34 -!- carado has joined. 23:38:24 dod 23:38:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:41:15 pop 23:42:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:46:02 -!- Bike has joined. 23:59:46 -!- ^v has joined. 2013-12-18: 00:01:02 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:02:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:05:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:16:02 -!- muskrat has joined. 00:36:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:40:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:49:03 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:50:58 -!- glogbackup has joined. 00:53:55 "Eventually I noticed that the longer the machine had been powered down before I tried to boot, the more likely it was to boot correctly." OS programming is scary 00:54:02 yes 00:54:12 also i didn't know vaurora had a twitter hells yea 00:54:33 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 00:55:06 "I used the BIOS to dump the DRAM (memory) on the machine and noticed that each time I dumped the memory, more and more bits were zeroes instead of ones. Of course I knew intellectually that DRAM loses data when you turned the power off" oh god, what the fuck 00:58:36 her personal twitter is protected and I'm too shy to like apply for membership 00:59:32 luckily, i'm too unthinking to not apply for membersip. 00:59:36 ship 01:00:03 i should give more money to Ada Initiative 01:00:08 and you should all give money to OpenHatch: http://openhatch.org/donate/ 01:00:30 if she looks at my twitter she's just gonna see a buncha nonsense tho 01:01:13 hm, sketch of a penguin. that's hard to turn down 01:01:38 Bike: hmm, what's the "what the fuck" in that quote? 01:01:50 olsner: that this was relevant to software 01:03:18 i think i'll drop a few bucks at openhatch once i have an address again. i could go for more stickers. i wonder if they're nice vinyl ones 01:06:40 hmm, my system is spending 1% of (non-idle) cpu time in memchr 01:07:06 too bad i don't have an income again :V 01:15:07 -!- Guest74908 has joined. 01:15:18 -!- madbr has joined. 01:15:43 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:46 I think I've figured out how to do single line iterations 01:16:31 If a line contains, say, $ in front of a variable, build a for loop with it 01:17:11 start the variable at 0, increment it by 1 every iteration... the only thing you're missing is a stop condition 01:17:13 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:17:24 what are you talking about 01:17:26 so for instance 01:17:33 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:17:38 -!- nooodl has joined. 01:17:41 vector[$n] += 5 01:17:44 turns into 01:18:15 for(n=0; ????; n++) { vector[n] += 5; } 01:18:18 is this novel syntax for some system yu're coming up with because i already hate it 01:18:35 yeah 01:18:52 trying to figure out the shortest possible syntax for iterations over vectors 01:19:02 -!- Guest74908 has quit. 01:19:20 I think you're on the path to reinventing APL. or SIMD. 01:19:28 yes please skip to that part 01:19:45 "or the List monad" 01:19:50 not familiar with APL. SIMD is something else. 01:20:14 > map (+5) [3,1,18] 01:20:15 [8,6,23] 01:20:21 well, you'll eventually end up with "vector += 5" if you go down this route really 01:20:22 it's mostly inspired by logical programming tbh 01:20:32 and then if you get up to "vec1[$n] += vec2[$n]", etc... 01:20:34 elliott : that's the idea 01:20:34 now replace "map" with the Prince symbol and you've got APL 01:20:54 Bike: no, APL/J/etc. would just use + directly 01:20:58 that's kinda the point of array programming 01:20:59 actually "vec1[$n] += vec2[$n]" is a good example 01:21:05 elliott: stfu nerd 01:21:08 ) 1 2 3 + 4 5 6 01:21:08 elliott: 5 7 9 01:21:16 ) vec1 =: 1 2 3 01:21:16 elliott: |ok 01:21:18 ) vec2 =: 4 5 6 01:21:19 elliott: |ok 01:21:21 ) vec1 + vec2 01:21:21 elliott: 5 7 9 01:21:34 what's the infinite five operator 01:21:36 ) vec1 .= vec1 + vec2 01:21:37 elliott: |domain error 01:21:37 elliott: | vec1 .=vec1+vec2 01:21:41 oh 01:21:46 wait, what 01:21:53 ) vec1 =: vec1 + vec2 01:21:54 elliott: |ok 01:21:55 ) vec1 01:21:56 elliott: 5 7 9 01:21:59 how come you did .= instead of =:... right. 01:22:20 should translate to for(n=0; n i hate to say this ut have you ever used matlab because its syntax does all this and is already infinite worse/more useful than yours 01:22:51 ok but, that's literally what APL/J/etc. do behind the hood for vec1 + vec2 :P 01:22:57 oh. matlab is another good example of this kind of thing, yeah 01:23:07 the problem with map is that you end up with, well, the rest of functional programming :D 01:23:09 I guess the difference with SIMD is that the vectors are always fixed-size 01:23:21 afaik J has no explicit "map", and not really first class functions 01:23:23 SIMD is really an acceleration technique 01:23:25 it's not a functional language really at all 01:23:39 "function-level programming"! 01:23:48 i'm pretty sure apl has map though 01:24:21 you're not meant to program in SIMD except for like inner loops in like the few remaining places where it counts these days 01:24:55 that's not elliott's point. elliott's point was "gee that does operations across a vector too hm relevant" 01:25:01 my elliott impression righ tthere 01:25:10 and it's always contained in normal loops anyways since you rarely ever really process 4 item loops 01:25:18 oh, apl even has a map /syntax/ 01:25:25 "Expressions such as ⌽[i]a and +/[i]a and +\[i]a apply the (possibly derived) function preceding the brackets “along axis i” of the argument a . " 01:25:26 map is implicit in APL probably? 01:25:27 since it is in J 01:25:30 I think that's fold. 01:25:43 blah 01:27:29 basically I need a syntax that's usable within a curly brace language :D 01:28:02 isn't matlab curly brace? or at least close to it 01:28:09 something like that yeah 01:28:09 burly case 01:28:55 you could have a bunch of built in array process functions but in curly brace languages they are rarely flexible enough 01:28:57 it's actually dependent on whitespace because that's great i guess. 01:29:20 madbr: seriously, in matlab you can do shit like foo(bar) where foo and bar are both matrices and it does some fucking indexing thing. 01:29:45 and you can have that as an lvalue and bla bla bla 01:30:27 matlab is literally the worst 01:30:35 like php for matrices 01:30:40 yes and that's what madbr is going for here 01:31:20 no I'm just trying to figure out a way to add a shortcut for loops over vectors in curly brace languages 01:31:45 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 01:32:07 and i'm telling you this is it. 01:32:16 speaking of php, apparently it originally used strlen() on function names as a hash 01:32:43 functionally it has to compile into some variant of for(int i=x; i looking up matlab 01:37:38 doesn't seem to automatically produce loops, it seems to just have matrices as a primitive type and has prelooped operations on them for you 01:37:48 but I could be wrong 01:38:18 so, what, your big huge difference here is inlining? 01:38:41 the difference is that a loop can have all sorts of flow control 01:39:05 and partial value changes etc 01:39:21 also it's not a physical value that has to be stored 01:41:28 it can be just as dumb as C++'s for(;;), as long as it has less typing 01:52:12 this is not what matlab does, from what I can tell in what I'm reading right now (never used matlab)... basically it has a bunch of operators that works on matrices 02:02:35 http://eighteenthelephant.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/another-bad-graph/ 02:07:43 apl is also a language that operates on arrays with a bunch of operators 02:08:02 none of your examples of "this already exists" really applies 02:11:14 -!- ^v has joined. 02:20:06 -!- Sprocklem has changed nick to Sprocklem_. 02:20:50 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem__. 02:21:39 -!- Sprocklem__ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 02:24:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:36:50 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:40:31 -!- tromp__ has joined. 02:41:06 hi 02:41:24 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:45:56 what does quin mean? 02:46:11 i believe it is short for me 02:46:54 so you're named place of the Quin? 02:47:07 so it would appear 02:47:36 and you are named work that does this 02:48:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 02:48:05 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 02:48:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 02:48:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 02:49:04 actually I got frustrated when signing up for freenode so my name is a question 02:50:05 no it isn't. you can't have a question without a question mark 02:50:09 and why so frustrated 02:51:08 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:53:16 Bike: thanks for the dedication. now WHERE ARE ALL YOUR OTHER IDEAS YOU WERE GOING TO POST NOW THAT YOU MADE AN ACCOUNT? 02:53:45 uh excuse me it's /one/ idea!! and it isn't presentable. 02:54:29 present it to me anyway 02:54:32 right here right now 02:54:36 whats the gimmick 02:56:20 fire control computers 02:56:46 :D 02:56:56 <3 02:57:05 do go on 02:57:15 initially i was thinking it would be like verilog, but there's a whole fuckton to specify 02:57:39 since i was thinking below, uh, register-transfer level, for lack of a better... everything 02:58:22 so a lang where you hook up all those ffc components, and each one is minimally configurable in behavior? 02:58:27 fcc 02:58:41 fcc? but yeah 02:58:46 oh, fire control computer 02:59:50 but like, take a gear. specifying tooth size we probably don't want, but you'd get pretty different behavior from the spacing (you can make a discretizer thing like a clock) 03:00:08 and/or you can have the driveshaft (if there even is a driveshaft) somewhere other than the center 03:00:35 * quintopia takes a gear 03:01:06 i mean you could model on a higher level but at that point it's almost practical. 03:01:24 also, 3d cams. don't even want to think about em 03:01:35 s/practical/actually implementable 03:02:00 3d cams should be easier than some other things actually 03:02:21 they only have on moving part: the function f(theta,x) 03:02:50 well that and the length (max ) 03:02:54 *max x 03:04:10 i mean for practicality i'd just use shannon 03:04:16 er 03:04:45 shannon's system, where you just specify linkages between integrators and differentials and constant-speed drives 03:04:47 the grooved gears are also fairly straightforward. 03:04:58 but at that point why not just write out the equation 03:05:26 because 03:05:28 this 03:05:29 is 03:05:40 ESOLANG 03:06:09 was that a 300 reference 03:06:14 sure 03:06:18 time to go home 03:06:19 it's 2013! 03:06:20 brb 03:12:22 Husk Scheme's Haskell FFI only works with Haskell functions of a specific type 03:12:30 This seems like a Haskell-y limitation to impose on it 03:17:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:02 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:29:15 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:40:54 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:47:43 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:09:44 "Tourist walks off pier while checking Facebook page" 04:16:15 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:21:48 -!- rodgort has joined. 04:33:57 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:03:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:16:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:49:13 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:49:36 The first problem in experimental mathematics is apparently not overfilling LaTeX boxes... <-- ah memories 05:49:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:54:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:16:49 Overfull \hbox (0.76785pt too wide)! 06:49:01 TIL: Hackage has "dbus-core", "dbus" and "DBus", all different. And all having modules named DBus.*. (AFAICT, "dbus" is a direct sequel of "dbus-core", a pure-Haskell DBus protocol implementation, while "DBus" is a FFI-based binding on the native DBus libraries.) 06:49:16 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:49:40 ;_; 06:52:19 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:55:17 All of them have a different API, of course. 06:55:40 always plural interfaces 06:55:46 (Though the one in dbus is a reasonable, simplified descendant of dbus-core.) 06:56:47 -!- Lemuriano has joined. 06:57:25 i have been paid to write perl, haskell, c, c++, java, assembly, shell, make, rust, javascript, prolly some others 06:57:30 i forgot PHP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 06:58:15 also python and ruby jeez 06:58:16 Have you been paid to specifically write in each of those things, or has it been the case of "write with whatever you want as long as it makes some sort of sense"? 06:58:42 some of each 06:59:30 -!- Lemuriano has left. 06:59:55 Does changing your XMonad config while at work count as being paid to write Haskell? 07:00:17 i did two summers of undergrad research, the first summer i wrote everything in perl, then I learned Haskell so I used it for everything the second summer 07:00:22 i hope this was considered an improvement 07:01:02 fizzie: sure 07:01:10 Yay, a point, then. 07:01:35 pretty sure i also used ghci for some misc data munging somewhere along the way 07:01:51 i started writing an improved object file diff tool in Haskell for Ksplice but never finished it 07:03:26 I've had fungot join the IRC channel of our research group, does that count as being paid to write Funge-98? (Perhaps not quite.) 07:03:26 fizzie: yeah i know, but lament and fizzie are around. or e-mail me. 07:03:54 fungot: Do you even have an email account? 07:03:55 fizzie: or you could put it more formally designated as ieee 1003 and the international reach that only we are positioned to provide! 07:04:44 To quote oerjan, OKAY. 07:06:14 `run addquote ' OKAY' # ThereIsNoSuchThingAsNotability 07:06:20 1146) OKAY 07:08:54 O KAY 07:09:56 fungot is in that generation that prefers twitter to email 07:09:56 oerjan: the fnord returns some error code, after all, she is!"" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord: 07:14:40 oerjan: http://sprunge.us/LNdZ 07:17:53 okay 07:21:19 Oh no I disregarded LOWER CASE. 07:22:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:23:01 *MWAHAHAHA* 07:23:20 ok, hth, hand 07:23:41 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:24:24 o'kay this was much more interest-ing http://sprunge.us/XBHK 07:26:43 wait, hth is legal again? 07:27:07 i do not recall some of these. 07:27:22 hth is legal 07:27:24 doesthiswork: no, i'm a filthy law breaker hth 07:27:27 long live hth 07:27:40 oerjan: plz disable the hth disabler thx 07:27:43 i miss your hths 07:28:10 shachaf: careful, elliott might ban you 07:28:30 (not really, he's getting mellow with age) 07:28:40 oerjan: imo he doesn't even go on irc anymore 07:29:57 `seen elliott 07:30:02 2013-12-18 01:28:02: isn't matlab curly brace? or at least close to it 07:30:14 @time 07:30:17 Local time for shachaf is Tue Dec 17 23:30:14 2013 07:30:20 well he'll say something in the future 07:30:23 that doesn't mean anything 07:30:51 @time lambdabot 07:30:51 I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? 07:30:52 shachaf: just after banning you, probably 07:31:35 although how he'll do it with matlab i don't know 07:31:55 that's the beauty of matlab. 07:33:27 It's MATLAB not matlab you heathens. 07:33:41 That's like saying "god" instead of "GOD". 07:33:48 YHWH whatever 07:33:53 (Sounds like HTH.) 07:33:54 i do that all the time. 07:34:05 YMMV 07:34:37 Hey, is YHWH short for Yes, He Would Help? How appropriate. 07:35:46 Given the temperament of the old testament god, perhaps "appropriate" is not quite the right word, I don't think he's very keen on helping in general. 07:38:43 yes, hell wants humans 07:44:11 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:45:22 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:46:16 -!- aloril has joined. 07:54:16 Wow, someone's actually using the while (i --> 0) spelling. I thought that was a myth. 07:56:01 a tale told to frighten small children 07:56:09 who is using it? 07:56:15 Someone on ##c. 07:56:32 is there a way to declare "i" inside while() in this example?: int i = 8; while (i --> 0) printf("%d ", i); 07:57:06 p. sure they are either joking or being joked at 07:57:17 i'm gonna go with "no" 07:57:49 for (int i = 8; i --> 0;) 07:58:00 Yeah, well, that's not acceptable for some reason. 07:58:17 very imrotant that we use a while 07:58:38 See http://sprunge.us/IjNY 07:58:57 (Best channel?) 07:59:19 what does /wrist mean... oh 08:00:00 I use while (i--) pretty often 08:00:12 olsner: Yes, but do you use The Arrow? 08:00:37 only in java (because you have to) 08:01:07 what's it mean 08:01:10 It's the best, because after something like i = 42; while (i --> 0) ... your not-familiar-with-C readers will be tempted to do i = 0; while (i --> 42) ... too. 08:01:23 flipping them off? 08:01:33 (I didn't get the /wrist thing.) 08:02:43 http://i.imgur.com/N1QFcWY.jpg meanwhile, in the uk 08:04:16 It's some kind of a not-real thing, right? Right? Please? 08:04:32 are you suggesting a tabloid may be inaccurate 08:04:35 that's libel fucker 08:05:12 I think you mean "f***er". 08:05:41 too tired and emotional to censor myself, [insinuates that you are a paedophile] 08:05:43 's ok, just don't use the c**v word 08:06:03 (fizzie: also, it can't be real. his shirt says "soccer".) 08:06:14 Bike: ooh good point 08:06:46 The "flogged 'em to the junkies" bit at the very least reads like a parody. 08:07:43 boy fails to blend into reality, takes it out on cat 08:09:00 Meanwhile, in the email: [[ This is an official advice from the FBI foreign remittance/telegraphic dept. it has come to our notice that bank of Nigeria has released $8m to BANK OF AMERICA in your name as the beneficiary, The bank Nigeria knowing fully well that they do not have enough facilities to effect this payment from Nigeria to your account, They used what we know as a “secret ... 08:09:06 ... diplomatic transit payment” (S.T.D.P) to pay this fund through wire transfer, but this means of transfer can not reflect to your account as this was wrong method of transfer. ]] 08:09:24 spike timing dependent plasticity 08:09:34 Those wacky Nigerians, they keep using those STDPs even though they're obviously the wrong method of transfer. 08:09:54 I guess I need to send a "Diplomatic Immunity Seal Of Transfer(DIST)" or something. 08:10:05 Must be legit, all those acronyms. 08:10:21 sealed highly important transfer 08:10:50 (How come a "secret diplomatic transit payment" is a STDP and not a SDTP, anyway?) 08:11:23 fizzie: it's probably one of those english/french ordering compromises 08:11:51 transfer secrét diplomatique du paye 08:12:03 "Meanwhile, i have decided to scan and send to you a copy of my identity as evidence, so you can be aware of whom you are dealing with and i have also informed that entire FBI Department Offices in each states to back out regarding this case because i have decided to handle this situation personally to ensure that i deal with you accordingly if you fail to provide the necessary requirement ... 08:12:04 god i hope the fbi actually has a "telegraphic dept" 08:12:09 ... which we requested from you." 08:12:18 fizzie you aren't even in the united states are you 08:12:27 Well, no. 08:12:37 But he's scanned a copy of his identity, so. 08:12:38 Bike: it's the finnish bureau of investigation 08:12:41 nice of the FBI to protect the whole world instead of americans 08:12:44 just americans* 08:13:05 Bike: they can't even keep finnish spam inside finland, you think they manage to keep fbi spam outside it? 08:13:13 I think I've gotten email before from this same guy, he's "FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III". 08:13:41 (seriously, most of the spam i see these days is finnish. although i guess that's after nvg's filter.) 08:13:59 Our spam is too potent to be contained by your puny filters. 08:14:30 "Subject: Are You Sure Rev. Thomas Is Your Next of Kin!!!" No!!! I'm not sure at all!!! 08:19:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:21:12 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:45:23 Aaaaah Namco High has been released 08:47:56 Taneb: http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/70376905191/ 08:48:41 No spoilers, please! 08:49:37 spoilers: it keeps happening 08:49:59 spoiler davesprite is davesprite 08:54:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:56:26 fizzie: What was the name of the guy from X-Files? 08:58:59 Bike: crimbo 09:00:25 Oh man, Anti-bravoman is pretty cool 09:07:20 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:08:59 -!- kmc_ has joined. 09:10:12 -!- kmc has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:10:14 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc. 09:10:54 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:10:55 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 09:10:55 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (*.net *.split). 09:10:55 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split). 09:10:56 -!- rntz has quit (*.net *.split). 09:12:08 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:12:08 -!- rntz has joined. 09:12:08 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 09:12:08 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 09:12:08 -!- trout has joined. 09:12:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:16:20 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:16:20 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 09:16:20 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (*.net *.split). 09:16:20 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split). 09:16:21 -!- rntz has quit (*.net *.split). 09:16:59 I'm not sure which guy FreeFull meant. 09:17:18 Mulder, maybe. That's close-ish to Mueller. 09:18:42 Mꙮller 09:18:52 oh irc, where else can you walk into a room and find a motionless duplicate of yourself 09:18:58 and the socially acceptable response is to murder them 09:19:25 I think there are some netwurk games like that. 09:19:50 clearly the duplicates should argue they're the real ones more often 09:21:44 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:21:44 -!- rntz has joined. 09:21:44 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 09:21:44 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 09:21:44 -!- trout has joined. 09:25:00 As soon oerjan disconnects I'm going to grab his nick and argue I'm the one who should survive. 09:27:23 i guess i am asking for that. 09:58:14 Oh dear god I've found a cameo 10:00:34 as long as it wasn't a camel 10:02:35 Or a camembert. 10:03:01 Well, I reached AN ending 10:03:31 "Camelopard" is kind of a silly name for a giraffe. 10:03:47 is this one of those choose your own camel books 10:04:15 oerjan, it's a dating sim about video game characters 10:06:29 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:08:18 chraming 10:10:08 I just got a good ending with the ship from Galaga 10:11:54 A "good ending"? 10:12:56 Someone might argue that any ending is a good ending, viz. that you don't have to keep playing. 10:13:02 :P 10:19:38 !SENT_START I DON'T THINK ANYONE COULD BUY AND TODAY BUT THINGS CHANGE WHEN PEOPLE DIE !SENT_END 10:21:22 i think fizzie is revealing himself as a bot 10:22:27 !SENT_START I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE INSINUATING THERE I AM MADE OF SOFT HUMAN FLESH !SENT_END 10:22:58 O KAY 10:35:47 http://sprunge.us/efBH those wacky university students, right? 10:45:04 i think that will be ex-university student 10:47:17 (Also that "Page 4" in there is spurious.) 10:49:01 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:56:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:09:32 -!- carado has joined. 11:13:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:55:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No route to host). 11:56:06 -!- augur has joined. 12:12:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No route to host). 12:12:54 -!- augur has joined. 12:18:04 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No route to host). 12:18:21 -!- augur has joined. 12:58:48 -!- boily has joined. 12:58:59 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:59:09 good moily 13:00:22 it seems like now would be a very good time to buy btc, but it seems like so much effort, cuz i know there's no easy way 13:04:18 good quintorning! 13:05:43 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 13:07:19 -!- Hanswurst has joined. 13:07:45 `relcome Hanswurst 13:07:50 ​Hanswurst: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:07:55 Hi 13:08:04 quintopia: there seems to be a few Canadian sites for investing in BTC. 13:08:35 boily: do they allow you to pay electronically? 13:09:46 looks like so, but the acronyms are colliding with my uncaffeinated brain, so I'm missing many details. 13:18:24 :\ 13:18:37 fizzie: should I add in the # cömment to the `addquote you made 6 hours ago? 13:18:57 quintopia: don't worry. 12 oz of tea are brewing. 13:19:22 -!- yorick has joined. 13:23:12 boily: It did not end up in the quote, so I guess not. I don't know. Is there a law on these things? 13:25:03 fungot: verdict? 13:25:03 boily: http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/ eggs/ search.scm. i mean is 13:25:16 fungot: I mean, your opinion on the matter? 13:25:17 boily: fnord sez the thermometer now interesting rather than solved problems." at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord 13:25:45 fizzie: you bot says you should mind thermometers insted of the problem. so no comment it is. 13:26:03 I guess that's fair. 13:38:33 quintopia: (I very subtly and discreetly added you to the PDF cocoonspirators.) 13:39:12 -!- Hanswurst has left. 13:41:13 kmc: (same thing.) 13:41:24 It's a very discreet process, disregarding the automatic email alerts. 13:41:52 muah ah ah. 13:43:49 boily: i am 12 and what is this wisdom repo 13:45:27 quintopia: 12? it is the repo to the Source of the PDF. 13:46:08 what pdf. what is it for 13:46:34 the PDF in the /topic ↑ 13:47:52 What other wisdom is there than the wisdom of #esoteric, really? 13:48:42 -!- CADD has joined. 13:50:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:51:05 I still don't know what twelves quintopia is, so I'm going to assume he's a herd of zebras. 13:54:21 I think it was like a time of day. Like, "I'm totally middays", and so on. 13:59:36 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:06:23 -!- atriq has joined. 14:06:29 -!- atriq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:08:34 small follow-up on the amplituhedron → http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/12/a-quantum-revolution-against-feynman-diagrams/ 14:08:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:13:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:17:29 this pdf is too big to read 14:17:46 also i wanted to add a wisdom but i can't backtick on my phone 14:23:28 quintopia: can you copy and paste on your phone? 14:24:08 * boily ````````es quintopia 14:24:15 jconn: 96{a. 14:24:16 b_jonas: ` 14:24:22 ah, you want more? 14:24:25 jconn: 60$96{a. 14:24:26 b_jonas: ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 14:24:58 is it possible to maintain, debug, analyze, refactor and otherwise understand J? 14:25:22 boily: imo, no 14:25:30 it's not really useful for large programs 14:25:35 but some people disagree 14:27:16 ) (0j1+i.9)#96{a. NB. all sizes, in case you can only copy and paste full words 14:27:16 b_jonas: ` `` ``` ```` ````` `````` ``````` ```````` 14:29:07 ~eval iterate ('`':) "`" 14:29:10 ["`","``","```","````","`````","``````","```````","````````","`````````","``````````","```````````","````````````","`````````````","``````````````","```````````````","````````````````","`````````````````","``````````````````","```````````````````","````````````````````","`````````````````````","``````````````````````","```````````````````````","````````````````````````","`````````````````````````","``````````````````````````","```` 14:31:19 ~eval concat (iterate ('`':) " ") 14:31:19 " ` `` ``` ```` ````` `````` ``````` ```````` ````````` `````````` ``````````` ```````````` ````````````` `````````````` ``````````````` ```````````````` ````````````````` `````````````````` ``````````````````` ```````````````````` ````````````````````` `````````````````````` ``````````````````````` ```````````````````````` ````````````````````````` `````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````` 14:55:36 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 15:00:40 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 15:08:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:11:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:47:06 -!- carado has joined. 15:52:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:02:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:16:21 is there any reference implementation to https://github.com/trevp/axolotl/wiki ? 16:16:37 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:21:52 -!- ^v has joined. 16:26:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:26:55 -!- augur has joined. 16:28:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:31:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:34:50 -!- Chillectual has joined. 16:35:10 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:35:15 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 16:42:54 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:45:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:46:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:46:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:50:35 -!- muskrat has joined. 16:51:49 thanks for the ticks guys 16:52:42 `learn PHP is Worse Is Better with strong lock-in effects for the web ecosystem. 16:52:47 I knew that. 17:29:42 `learn PHP is the most static typed and mathematically proven to be the best programming language ever. 17:29:46 I knew that. 17:30:07 I know that you knew than. 17:32:03 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:35:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:39:52 `rm wisdom/php 17:39:55 No output. 17:41:39 ("PHP" == 0), of course. 17:42:40 :( 17:42:54 `? PHP 17:42:56 PHP? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:43:00 `? php 17:43:01 php? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:43:06 `learn PHP is Worse Is Better with strong lock-in effects for the web ecosystem. 17:43:11 I knew that. 17:43:14 What? 17:43:28 `rm wisdom/PHP 17:43:30 rm: cannot remove `wisdom/PHP': No such file or directory 17:43:37 why are y'all putting in these wisdom entries 17:43:51 shachaf: there was another php entry that you deleted that was already there 17:43:58 shachaf: you are the worst deleter person ever 17:44:01 they're both bad 17:44:07 they should both not be in wisdom/ 17:44:25 shachaf: but what about the third one you deleted. should it be. 17:44:30 `revert 17:44:31 Done. 17:45:04 shachaf: also since when are you the final arbiter of what can be in wisdom 17:45:50 sigh 17:49:04 -!- augur has joined. 17:51:51 back from lunch, and there is a wardom on PHP. 17:56:44 -!- carado has quit (*.net *.split). 17:56:46 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 17:56:46 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 17:56:46 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (*.net *.split). 17:56:47 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split). 17:56:47 -!- rntz has quit (*.net *.split). 17:58:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:00:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:03:45 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:13:00 -!- carado has joined. 18:13:01 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:13:01 -!- rntz has joined. 18:13:01 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 18:13:01 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 18:13:01 -!- trout has joined. 18:23:09 quintopia: I agree with shachaf the 3rd one was not wisdom. 18:23:52 CADD: remind me what the third one was again so i don't have to reload the pdf 18:25:05 quintopia: the one right after your one 18:25:36 CADD: that one sucked. i'm talking about the one that was in there originally. i.e. yesterday. 18:25:48 oh 18:25:50 uh 18:25:54 `? php 18:25:55 php? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:25:59 `? PHP 18:26:01 PHP? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:26:02 idk? 18:26:05 lol 18:27:13 more like hyperTERRIBLE processor 18:28:13 lol 18:28:24 there was a PHP entry? 18:28:27 CADD: it's gone. shachaf deleted it. look it up in the PDF if you want to see it. 18:28:29 it and the links 18:28:39 oh, the wisdom one. right 18:29:03 “ \item[PHP] is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots, and past elliott. Ask your GP today! $[$Website redacted$]$” 18:29:22 that seems pretty meh. 18:29:31 MEANWHILE IN R/BITCOIN http://imgur.com/h9TXUbY 18:30:44 quintopia: PHP is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots, and past elliott. Ask your GP today! [Website redacted] 18:31:08 CADD: too slow 18:31:32 boily: ty 18:32:02 CADD: by the way, do you have a github account? (asked with an evil grin :D) 18:32:27 boily: yeah, github.com/sheganinans 18:32:31 boily: yours? 18:32:38 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:33:23 the one i was trying to add was intended to be actual wisdom, not humor. based on an article: https://medium.com/on-coding/6a9748f2268c 18:33:27 Oh, you mean yet another PHP entry before the two that both of you added. 18:33:28 boily: i just added some stuff really recently. just random snippets i thought were barely tolerable to release 18:34:02 "PHP is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots, and past elliott. Ask your GP today! [Website redacted]" 18:34:11 I think we're better off without any of them. 18:34:16 CADD: you should now be in the knowledge of my account, and the Source to the PDF. 18:34:40 shachaf: why don't you just go through and delete everything you don't like, and send some rain to a few parades while you're at it 18:34:55 `pbflist 18:34:57 pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion 18:35:26 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:35:26 boily: do i have to wait for github's eventual consistency model for me to see it? 18:35:42 boily: or some other service? 18:36:20 Phantom_Hoover: Huh? 18:36:23 Phantom_Hoover: i'm not seeing any new ones 18:36:52 oh i swear i saw one 18:37:20 boily: ah, i sees you 18:44:48 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:48:14 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:54:39 -!- muskrat has joined. 18:55:27 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:55:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:58:03 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 18:58:03 -!- muskrat has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:58:07 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 19:06:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:13:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:15:09 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:18:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:19:35 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:22:15 it seems like now would be a very good time to buy [...] <-- the ancient sign of a bubble close to bursting... 19:24:20 fizzie: should I add in the # cömment to the `addquote you made 6 hours ago? <-- not unless you add all my previous quotes/wisdom-affecting sed commands hth 19:27:04 oh bitcoin is crashing again? 19:31:05 they put a suicide hotline in r/bitcoin 19:31:34 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 19:31:35 am i allowed to laugh 19:31:57 as long as you acknowledge that anyone actually killing themselves would be horrible 19:32:03 ah ok 19:33:40 there's also a temporary ban on "memes, price posts, and emotional posts" which is clear for mockery 19:34:36 it's not the first time this has happened 19:34:59 i'm no suicide prevention expert but "it's just money" seems like a shitty and privileged thing to say, in general 19:35:38 yes, but on the other hand most people on r/bitcoin are themselves shitty and privileged 19:35:54 i have this hunch that the idea of bitcoin working is based on the same kind of economy that didn't foresee the still ongoing financial crisis. 19:35:55 maybe so 19:36:02 *economic theory 19:36:08 oerjan: can you elaborate? 19:36:31 i mean, if i had any influence on rbitcoin i'd try to come up with something better to say, fo sho 19:36:47 kmc: hunches don't have elaborations. 19:36:52 oerjan: okay 19:36:55 maybe a little. 19:36:58 oerjan: OKAY. 19:36:59 what about elaborate hunches 19:37:03 also yes that 19:37:11 or hunched-over elaborations 19:37:54 first of all, the only intrinsic stabilization of bitcoin's value is on the supply side. which is better than having none at all i guess. 19:38:29 but it only guarantees a _maximal_ value, not a minimum one... 19:39:25 -!- ^v has joined. 19:39:28 fungot: are you worth any bitcoin? 19:39:28 boily: perhaps that's irrational. " snow crash", " helping others", " 19:40:04 Harken to the Bot! Follow the Path of Crashing Snowy Bitcoins, and Helping Others! 19:40:21 everything else is based on trust ... and without a supporting institution like a government, or a strong moral code that everyone follows, trust cannot survive in bad times. 19:40:44 i see fungot is a libertarian 19:40:44 Bike: if you make significant changes. 19:40:45 boily: "helping others" 19:41:30 mrhmouse: “I don't see any problem with that.” 19:42:10 http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2013/msg00235.html fuck yeaaaaaah 19:44:57 yeah i'm reading the paper now http://www.tau.ac.il/~tromer/papers/acoustic-20131218.pdf 19:45:09 hm such side channel attacks essentially mean that encryption code _must_ be branch free, no? 19:45:19 unless this is even subtler 19:45:34 since when do branches break encryption? 19:45:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:46:08 i think the problem is that it's really hard to do public-key operations efficiently without data-dependent control flow or memory access 19:46:56 boily: by having the cpu do different things internally depending on what the data is, which can have measurable effects such as timing or this sound thing... 19:46:59 boily: i think the basic idea is that the attacker can use side channel information like sound to determine which branch sme code is on 19:47:12 nice, oerjan said it forwards and i said it backwards 19:47:18 and some day you will meet? 19:47:19 oerjan: 1) the bubble has burst/is bursting, hence my statement and 2) i see no reason why it won't rebound 19:47:22 * oerjan hasn't actually read the paper but is assuming that's how such a thing would work 19:48:00 quintopia: oh well 19:50:37 oerjan, Bike: so, you can guess what's happening, but you can't perfectly reconstruct the original data, righ? 19:50:52 oerjan, Bike: and meeting IRL is always a Good Thing®. 19:51:22 * quintopia meets boily IRL in a crowded bus dressed as a hobo 19:51:22 boily: no, but if you can do chosen plaintext attacks, you can add more and more information until you have the key... 19:52:34 Ooh, I remember the '04 presentation that paper mentions. 19:52:39 right, this attack involves sending many PGP-encrypted emails which are crafted to reveal bits of the private key through the side channel 19:52:53 It's "p. great" they've extended it to do actual key extraction. 19:53:12 (As in, remember reading about it, not attending it.) 19:53:28 quintopia: you're >1900 km away by car. we need to find a simpler way to irlmeet. and why would you want to dress crowded buses as hoboes? 19:53:42 oerjan: oic. tdh. 19:53:58 boily: the bus isn't dressed as a hobo. it's just dangling a modifier 19:54:23 boily: and there is no simpler way for me to stalk you sorry 20:02:42 http://youtu.be/9pzm1lQX0qU 20:03:00 kmc: I like how it has Genesis 27:5 in the references. :) 20:03:25 oh that's what that cite was :) 20:03:36 "Audio eavesdropping on human conversations is a common practice, first published several millenia ago [Gen]." 20:03:38 no author listed though 20:04:05 Gen? 20:04:09 ion: eh? 20:04:17 oh, Genesis. 20:04:20 "[Gen 27:5 KJV] 5 And Rebekah heard when Isaac spake to Esau his son. And Esau went to the field to hunt [for] venison, [and] to bring [it]." 20:04:30 boily: An Andy Warhol homage. 20:04:35 oh hey, i remember that. 20:04:40 esau was kind of a motherfucker, iirc 20:04:47 aren't they all 20:20:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:25:29 do I see a flamewar about the wisdom system in my backscroll highlighting me three times? 20:26:47 unfortunately, as you already know, php 20:27:28 `run grep '?' bin/* 20:27:31 bin/?: else echo "$1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ bin/¿:? "$@" | rev | tac \ bin/؟:? "$@" | rev \ bin/anonlog: grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1| sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ bin/anonlog: file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ bin/aseen:done < <(ls -r /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt) \ bin/bienvenido:if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$ 20:27:38 bleh 20:27:41 `run grep '?' bin/* | paste 20:27:44 god 20:27:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31992 20:28:17 well if it were not for the other-language welcomes I would just remove the thing 20:30:12 remove what 20:30:31 the wisdom database 20:30:47 you fiend! 20:30:54 yes. 20:30:59 `? php 20:31:02 PHP is Worse Is Better with strong lock-in effects for the web ecosystem. 20:31:04 elliott wants t destroy all we hold dear 20:31:27 destroying america's morals 20:31:27 elliott: but your pinging was due to a wisdom entry that already _had_ been removed! 20:31:36 so removing it won't help QED 20:32:20 `rm wisdom/php 20:32:23 No output. 20:32:26 `help 20:32:26 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 20:38:11 * boily shoos elliott away from the Precious Wisdom DB 20:38:30 don't tempt me to increase the drasticity of my measures. 20:38:53 I have a mapole, and I know how to use it. the Wisdom will Stand! 20:39:43 q: what is a mapole 20:39:45 -!- elliott has left ("now I have removed the entire channel"). 20:39:59 `? mapole 20:40:00 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. 20:40:06 -!- elliott has joined. 20:40:11 actually, I still need this to number my irssi windows right. 20:40:34 elliott: That's why I /part without closing the window. 20:41:19 /set autoclose_windows off 20:43:05 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:45:24 bitcoin crash is front page on news.bbc.co.uk 20:46:56 is it really a full crash? isn't BTC much higher than before still? 20:48:55 when before? 20:49:48 -!- microt has joined. 20:49:54 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:49:59 before it started rising recently 20:50:06 it was at $200 or something? 20:50:12 maybe $100 20:50:38 i don't really have a precise opinion on what the word "crash" means 20:51:37 I guess like 5x increase in value from before it went crazy (ok, it's always crazy) seems like still a pretty big rise even if it went crazier in the interim to me 20:52:45 http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD 20:54:32 for a normal currency a 50% drop in value within two weeks would be a crash ... 20:54:58 somehow I don't feel that way about bitcoins. 20:55:16 yeah I don't think "crash" implies that all value since time immemorial is wiped out 20:56:13 int-e: obviously, people expect BTC to be much more volatile than most things people call currencies :) 20:56:20 just a sudden and significant drop in value 20:56:43 btw, mtgox might not be the best charts to look at given their issues unless that got resolved, they hover consistently above other exchanges because of them 21:02:58 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexwinter/deep-web-the-untold-story-of-bitcoin-and-the-silk well, ok. 21:05:11 -!- S1 has joined. 21:06:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:07:37 is "crimbo" really a UK slang term for "christmas" 21:07:55 I wonder whether anybody is crazy enough to trade futures for bitcoins. 21:08:20 ~duck future 21:08:20 future definition: that is to be; '''specifically'''. 21:08:27 ~duck crimbo 21:08:27 --- No relevant information 21:08:56 "A lot of what's going on out there is scary stuff!" ... boring. 21:09:07 kmc: yes 21:10:51 -!- evalj has joined. 21:10:58 "An unexpected exception has occurred. Please contact our Help Desk and include any errors reported on this page. java.lang.NullPointerException" this is a web application. 21:11:01 And "deep web" is not even their own phrase. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Web 21:11:07 -!- S1 has left. 21:11:10 lots of people write webapps in Java 21:11:42 well, i'm just kind of surprised it gave me a backtrce, i suppose. 21:12:54 I like NPEs. they offer a great occasion to be zen, drink a cuppa, and reflect on the Purpose of Life. 21:14:30 /me reads the wikipédia article on futures contracts. 21:14:34 * boily reads the wikipédia article on futures contracts. 21:14:36 says I. 21:14:50 bóilý 21:15:08 ķḿĉ. 21:16:01 I am disgusted by the possibility and formalisation of selling intangible financial assets. 21:17:11 this is just miiiiildly annoying since i could get money frm this form 21:17:17 boily: hey if you sign the contract and you loose money, its your fault. doesnt matter what is being sold. 21:17:23 boily: then uh, don't take too close a look at anything remotely moneoy-related 21:17:54 isn't money itself an "intangible financial asset" 21:17:57 boily: and what exactly is a dollar? 21:18:03 it isn't some gold any more 21:18:08 CADD: that I have no problem with. it's just the sleazyness of all that stuff. 21:18:14 boily: futures contracts are not exactly money printing machines. 21:18:30 boily: lol, the federal reserve is a million times sleazier 21:18:33 Bike: I don't understand finance. I am terrified by anything more complex than a simple savings account. 21:18:38 certainly many sleazy things have been done with derivatives, yeah, but rejecting the whole concept outright? 21:18:41 kmc: I meant, intangibler. 21:18:46 boily: do you also consider insurance to be inherently sleazy? 21:18:50 elliott: something I have in my pocket. 21:19:02 futures and options aren't just for speculators, they're purchesd by large "productive" companies as insurance 21:19:13 fucking christ this isn't even my fault 21:19:14 mcdonalds buys potato futures so that they're less exposed to fluctuations in price 21:19:20 kmc: yes, but I have a dental plan, so I make an exception for that. 21:19:23 boily: what about in your bank account? 21:19:28 and my face is bleeding. god 21:19:32 kmc: exactly 21:20:02 WHY AM I SO PUT UPON, O GOD IN HEAVEN 21:20:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:20:20 elliott: those are dollars in somebody else pocket. there are pocketeers out there who hold everybody's money, as there are plumbers, teachers, managers... 21:20:23 boily: wat? 21:20:44 boily: oops 21:20:48 Bike: wat? 21:20:59 boily: wat? 21:21:19 Bike: how many millilitres of blood per hour are you loosing? 21:21:21 boily: you will probably be disappointed if you ask your bank to show the vault in which the physical coins for your bank account balance are stored 21:21:26 CADD: which wat? 21:21:29 why are we all loosing 21:21:35 boily: look, i feel you have been fed a story about futures without actually understanding the math behind it. you even admitted yourself 21:21:40 what the uck is a litre 21:21:41 elliott: I know. I prefer my fiction. it's more fun :D 21:21:48 i use liters you damn furriner 21:22:09 CADD: I skimmed the wikipédia article, so I really don't understand what's happening. proper documentation is in order. 21:22:13 never let the facts get in the way of a good pitchfork mob 21:22:26 boily: at first i was saying wat to Bike, but accidentally said you, then i read your statement after his and said wat, but this time to yo 21:22:41 kmc: ikr? 21:22:48 Bike: furriner? 21:22:49 boily: you pay some amount now and you get some quantity of a good n months in the future 21:22:57 boily: pretty straightforward 21:23:06 kmc: oh. if that's the case, no problem with that. 21:23:20 mrhmouse: lol, i cant speel todai 21:23:21 and you can sell that contract in the meantime, in which case whoever buys it gets the good 21:23:46 kmc: so you can make a profit by selling the contract? 21:23:57 if you are good at it, yes 21:24:05 boily: kmc said it very well, there is no "evil NWO magic" to it 21:24:20 CADD: I am disappoint. 21:24:29 kmc: fascinating. 21:24:52 boily: not to say that there have been plenty of conspiracies, look at watergate, the gulf of tonkin, and operation notrhwoods :P 21:24:57 you can also take a loss of course 21:25:03 precisely 21:25:22 boily: thats what i meant by saying they arent money printing machines, unlike the federal reserve 21:25:35 I seeeeeeeee... 21:25:58 and even literally printing money has its purposes. 21:26:15 boily: the thing is that nobody knows exactly what the price of buying potatoes "on the spot" will be in 6 months, so the market price of a futures contract will vary as estimates of that future price change 21:26:20 oerjan: http://i.imgur.com/PtXdfsj.png (frontpaging on reddit) 21:26:28 https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8v5tskgKu1rpj06qo1_1280.jpg i'm very rady for this 21:26:48 Bike: yeah, its called counterfeit or some people even shave coins 21:27:01 boily: there's an Underworld music video like that but filmed from a train. it rules 21:27:15 I hereby ban libertarianism. 21:27:16 kmc: is a futures contract public? if so, wouldn't that change what the future price of the asset will be? 21:27:17 well, except it's flipped instead of water, probably, but it makes it look like water 21:27:21 Bike: that is actually why coins these days have those lines running around their edges, it makes it really easy to see if a coin has been shaved 21:27:27 boily: they are often publicly traded yes 21:27:28 Bike: wanna. 21:27:29 boily: hm that looks like it might be from trondheim? 21:27:36 oerjan: that is indeed the case. 21:27:40 wanna what 21:28:13 Bike: the video. 21:28:21 oh 21:29:00 CADD: most establishments don't think to reject a coin that's missing those lines, though, if it looks worn 21:29:22 banks might, but not many other places where the money-handlers are typically teenagers 21:29:22 boily: anyway why would it affect the spot price? 21:29:26 -!- evalj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:29:31 hm is there a way to see the normal reddit frontpage without logging out 21:29:33 mrhmouse: lol, sure. that and its really not all that profitable to do. unless they are gold coins. 21:29:53 kmc: it won't, but then you can influence the market so that you can make someone else gain or lose money. 21:29:53 CADD: in which case, many teenagers won't believe they're legal tender 21:29:58 -!- evalj has joined. 21:30:06 kmc: (unless I'm completely mistaken.) 21:30:28 oerjan: http://www.reddit.com/r/all/ 21:30:30 mrhmouse: XD 21:30:58 boily: how can you make someone else gain or lose money if you all have access to the same information and can take the same actions? 21:31:04 in fact, most counterfeiting can be gotten away with if you avoid exchanging it with someone that could possibly think to check it 21:31:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:31:07 mrhmouse: well, they technechally arent "legal" anymore, but anyone who know barely anything will accept them 21:31:13 kmc: ah. point. 21:31:14 boily: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpCmYXwCHZY 21:31:19 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:31:22 CADD: > teenagers 21:31:22 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 21:31:28 thike. 21:31:44 beautiful burnnnnnout~ 21:31:52 mrhmouse: lol, saw a video of a guy trying to sell a 1Oz gold coing for $50. the man was even in front of a cash4gold place. 21:31:58 boily: in practice people do come up with all kinds of market manipulation schemes, in all kinds of markets, some of which are illegal 21:32:00 oh, my mistake about the source 21:32:00 kmc: you can still be lucky. but usually one of those assumptions turns out to be false 21:32:02 high traffic hours in grocery stores checkout lines are the best times and places to use an almost-legit bill, since a hurried kid isn't likely to check your paper 21:32:30 mrhmouse: lol, yeah. but it has to feel right to be enough to pass. cotton and all. 21:32:32 e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_maker 21:32:41 kmc: most fascinating. 21:32:47 what about market makers? what does that have to do with manipulation? 21:32:50 CADD: right, but it isn't difficult to repurpose a lower-value bill 21:32:57 Bike: there, another one I like → http://vimeo.com/68546202 21:33:14 it's from some kind of short film called Shinkansen and oh i see you're perfectly capable of reading video descriptions. 21:33:19 mrhmouse: you are completely right. 21:33:34 kmc: it's just an example of an asymmetry. market makers have more options than normal traders. (and more obligations) 21:33:44 boily: let's build a printing press 21:33:47 mrhmouse: oh man, this brings back memories of places like totse.. 21:34:12 int-e: oh, you are using the term "market maker" to describe the regulatory status of registered broker-dealers and such, rather than just the trading strategy of market making 21:34:15 okay 21:34:26 mrhmouse: never done it myself, but its amazing how much of this info is available freely on the internet 21:34:37 boily: you're the easiest to blame^H^H^H^H^Hstart that sort of thing with 21:35:19 sometimes you are allowed to pursue a market-making strategy without any special status as a market participant 21:35:30 mrhmouse: I am Canadian. we'd have to print vinyl money. 21:35:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:35:47 time to go finish up xmas shopping. 21:35:49 boily: Canadian coins are vinyl? 21:35:56 mrhmouse: banknotes. 21:36:01 they even have short tracks on them 21:36:08 I never knew! 21:36:12 * boily wishes that loonies were made of vinyl :D 21:36:21 Bike: ha ha ha! 21:36:22 bits of "O Canada" and also Bjork songs 21:36:26 boily: yup, and even some countries have embedded transparent parts. so its even more difficult to re-purpose lower valued bills 21:36:58 our bills have transparent sections, with pictures of Her Majesty. 21:37:03 -!- evalj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:37:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: POULET DE NOËL!). 21:37:09 not here in the states.. you have to take time to check identifying marks like metallic strips, watermarks, etc.. they aren't glaringly obvious like they should be 21:37:11 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:37:19 boily: right, that is exactly what i was getting at. i though canada had them as well 21:38:03 mrhmouse: well, soon enough it will be all bitcoins. lol 21:38:15 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:38:26 silly analog currencies 21:38:34 -!- ^v has joined. 21:42:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:43:29 CADD: I refuse to accept any currency besides impromptu song & dance numbers 21:45:43 CADD: hilarious TTG stories are also acceptable 21:47:48 mrhmouse: well there is this one story that this guy on irc, where he told me that he would only take payment in currency that was less fungable than most of the currency that i had to offer, so then I decided to make a horrible TTG imitation of a story 21:48:09 21:48:13 "hilarious" was clearly specified 21:48:29 darn, i guess its to the guillotine with me.. 21:49:17 mrhmouse: TTG? 21:52:36 tabletop game 21:52:51 Bike: ty 22:04:43 a fungible currency is one that can go up in smoke? *wonders* 22:05:13 fungot: advice on fungibility 22:05:14 Bike: i'm sooooooooo close to a bus. neths 1.8.03 also adds fluffy bunnies for remote users. 22:05:28 * kmc wonders if that's a pun he doesn't get 22:05:58 fungible just means the units are interchangeable... one dollar is as good as another 22:07:37 so it has nothing to do with mushrooms. boring. 22:07:53 i don't know of any smokable mushrooms 22:08:08 kmc: how unambitious 22:08:10 douglass_ might 22:08:19 mushrooms are not smokable? 22:08:52 I mean, you can try 22:08:57 but i don't think anything good will happen 22:08:59 olsner: you're attacking the wrong end of the association chain 22:09:29 oh. kmc is. 22:10:12 the meat club at my school had an event advertised as "smoke anything up to the size of a small turkey" 22:10:37 is the funny thing supposed to be the implication of #drugz or the fact that there was a club for meat 22:10:39 Quoth the Internet, "You can also smoke dried mushrooms. It's a bit milder than eating them or making tea, but you need to use more mushrooms." 22:11:57 int-e: psilocybin-containing mushrooms? 22:12:13 strange 22:12:26 hm. when you smoke something psychoactive is it an aerosol or what 22:13:07 beats me 22:13:16 that, or vapors 22:13:35 all my knowledge here is from chemical weapons, so uh 22:14:22 sarin isn't a gas at human-livable temperatures and pressures. it's aerosolized in weapon form (unless you're aum shinrikyo) 22:15:53 so 'sarin gas' is rather a misnomer. just a fact to keep in mind for parties. 22:16:15 what did aum do 22:16:31 I've seen claims that you can smoke the top layer of an Amanita muscaria cap and it will be psychoactive. 22:16:43 they made plastic bags filled with sarin (liquid) and then jabbed them 22:17:39 But people mostly agree that smoking psilocybin-containing mushrooms will just make you cough. 22:20:17 i should ask the #drugz people at school if i can make a can of THC like a can of spray paint, i'm sure they'll be thrilled 22:22:39 hmm, I think I've heard about spray cannabis before somewhere 22:22:48 And I have no idea whatsoever about whatever the fuck other chemicals are in various Gymnopilus species. 22:23:29 -!- augur has joined. 22:24:29 Amanita muscaria doesn't have psylocybin, and I know it does get used as a hallucinogen. I don't know about smoking it thugh 22:24:36 Also if I wanted to try A. muscaria, I'd cook it, not smoke it. Ibotenic acid is a flavor enhancer (like MSG) and lots of people say A. muscaria is one of the most delicious wild mushrooms there is. 22:25:11 Mushrooms that have psylocybin in them taste rather horrible 22:25:19 I am aware of this. 22:25:46 You could probably feed A. muscaria to a reindeer and drink the piss 22:26:42 Why? I was under the impression that cooking did most of the same desired conversion to muscimol and with much tastier results. 22:26:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:26:56 Also, reindeer are not a common backyard pet in my area. 22:27:27 I don't know 22:27:28 http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/12/18/2122226/scientists-extract-rsa-key-from-gnupg-using-sound-of-cpu?utm_source=butt&utm_medium=butt 22:27:35 Does anyone know what kind of computers the Luna probes used? 22:29:28 christ, nasa's page doesn't even specify what agency they were under 22:29:49 FreeFull: they don't always 22:29:53 taste horrible I mean 22:34:06 right, varies by species + personal taste. some people even think Gymnopilus species are tasty (which may be due to variance in bitterness receptors. Many mushrooms in the genus Gymnopilus contain psilocybin but also some other stuff.) 22:36:26 (Gymnopiluses are usually described as intensely bitter, which was my opinion of the non-psilocybin-containing G. ventricosus that I found and made dye from. It smelled pretty good though.) 22:37:07 I had some P. galindoi sclerotia and they tasted... not like food, but definitely not "horrible" 22:37:49 Taxonomy note: P. galindoi is now declared synonymous with P. mexicana. 22:38:28 kind of like eating wax with a slight, unusual "crisp" taste reminiscent of mineral water or that time I ate some raw saffron 22:38:33 hard to describe 22:38:41 douglass_: ah 22:38:51 fungot: are you synonymous with P. mexicana 22:38:52 kmc: let's do it from the server 22:39:11 fungot: are you edible? 22:39:12 olsner: all things has a price?) 22:39:15 :O 22:39:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:40:44 (though who the fuck knows which species those really were anyway) 22:41:30 Also, reindeer are not a common backyard pet in my area. <--- yet another reason to move to finland 22:42:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:42:28 all we have here are cats, snails, and hippies 22:43:01 -!- `^_^v has joined. 22:44:17 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:44:25 you have hippies in the back yard? 22:44:50 they have themselves 22:44:54 also neighbors 22:45:35 roe deer may be hunted from the start of may to middle of june, because they're less radioactive in the summer 22:47:04 http://kch.zf.jcu.cz/vyzkum/publikace/separaty/Mushroom%20radioactivity%202012.pdf 22:47:33 this agrees with you, say they are radioactive in the fall mushroom season 22:48:07 There is fungus in Chernobyl that uses radioactivity as a source of energy 22:51:17 "A History of APL in the USSR", yeah i'm fucked 22:52:05 it's cool how there's like no central repository of ISBN publisher identifiers 22:52:38 -!- Taneb_ has joined. 22:52:48 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:53:00 oh, nevermind, it exists, as a printed book 22:53:01 fuckers 22:53:04 -!- Taneb_ has changed nick to Taneb. 22:53:46 and the ebook only costs fifteen hundred euros! 22:56:05 -!- tertu has joined. 22:56:45 Bike: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=130647.130656 22:57:06 yes 22:57:13 :D 22:58:00 what i was actually looking for was a russian-language book that doesn't exist anywhere on the english-language web, apparently 22:58:52 Bike: oh, so not the same? 23:04:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:08:49 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:09:28 -!- Bike has joined. 23:27:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:37:45 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:48:19 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:49:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:52:18 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:57:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 2013-12-19: 00:00:19 «so many different US intelligence agents were conducting operations inside games that a "deconfliction" group was required to ensure they weren't spying on, or interfering with, each other» 00:01:00 -!- microt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:29:20 Bike: help me understand the reflection package 00:32:52 i told you man, i'm retired. no more black ops stuff 00:33:17 one last big score 00:34:10 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/12/13/legal-threats-backfire/ if y'all aren't following retractin watch you've made a mistake 00:46:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:51:49 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:02:34 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to Frostitute. 01:02:42 -!- Frostitute has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 01:04:10 -!- microt has joined. 01:21:34 what fraction of the top 10 posters in #haskell do i put on /ignore before i decide that i'm done with that channel 01:23:21 i'd say 10% should do it 01:25:02 the joke is that i was already done with it 01:25:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:25:04 then i went back i guess 01:25:07 did you actually leave tho 01:25:09 oh 01:25:12 imo do that 01:25:21 let it all burn 01:26:02 heh, klrr got unbanned? 01:26:16 Of course. 01:26:18 I guess persistence works in the end. 01:27:07 -!- Bike has joined. 01:27:30 what did klrr do 01:27:48 http://slbkbs.org/klrr.txt and various such things 01:28:34 I thought everyone had basically agreed to ignore him for a few months, what happened to get him unbanned? 01:28:51 probably all just a misunderstanding 01:29:11 a winner 01:30:28 <_46bit> *gasp* 01:30:34 <_46bit> Brainfuck's been removed from Homebrew 01:30:36 <_46bit> https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/issues/24746 01:30:44 he joined and asked, i think 01:31:45 anyway why is #haskell so bad 01:34:13 who's klrr 01:34:17 o 01:36:56 -!- Arufonsu has joined. 01:56:13 So I'm trying to think what the best esoteric programming language is. 01:56:30 Not merely the best existing one, but the best possible one. 01:56:32 what's your criteria 01:56:43 Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck 01:56:55 my fav is unlambda 01:57:01 My criteria are something like "similar to Underload". 01:57:12 ok i think i know what's going to best fulfill those 01:57:18 it's Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck. 01:57:45 I've gotta say, though, /// is a pretty great language. 01:57:55 but it's not like underload at all. 01:58:03 Arufonsu : in that case, the answer is "underload" 01:58:13 since it's the most similar to underload :D 01:58:33 Bike: you have a point, here. 01:58:36 madbr: you also have a point, here. 01:59:17 I did a couple attempts at something like underload before 01:59:43 I really like languages that use code as data. Indeed, languages where there's barely any distinction between code and data. 02:00:03 have you consider enumerating the turing machine's 02:00:17 Arufonsu: My attempt at that: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Univar 02:01:27 I also like languages where the interpreter loop consists of removing the first instruction from the code and executing it, presumably modifying the rest of the code. 02:03:27 Arufonsu : My other attempt (unimplemented): http://esolangs.org/wiki/Object_disoriented 02:03:36 I like languages that involve symbol manipulation only. 02:05:17 So, so far, the languages I like are... Underload and ///? I think Smurf is also pretty good. 02:05:21 Arufonsu : you should probably look at look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/0x29A 02:06:00 madbr: so when this says "full, deep copy", that means the object is copied, as well as every object it references, every object each of those objects references, and so on? 02:06:31 it means the language doesn't have references :D 02:07:21 except p 02:07:26 which is a reference 02:07:30 Ah. That makes it easy. 02:08:30 I guess the thing about /// is that it's a bit too far removed from anything resembling a practical programming language. 02:08:45 (Which is a self-crediting way of saying "I have no idea how to write programs in ///".) 02:08:59 Arufonsu: research markov algorithms. 02:09:04 only then will you become awesome. 02:09:20 Object disoriented is mainly intended as a parody of object oriented languages 02:09:23 and it helps to understand rewrite systems. 02:09:38 LinearInterpol: Markov algorithms look like Thue. 02:10:02 'cuz markov algorithms are the trademark rewrite system. 02:10:09 and also trying to figure out the smallest possible object oriented language without making just a functionnal language in disguise... but I think it sorta failed at that 02:10:55 lambda calc is pretty object oriented right? 02:11:27 iirc typed lambda calc is. 02:11:36 So, lessee. My platonic ideal programming language is in the "remove and execute on remainder" paradigm. 02:11:45 I'm not sure I'd consider lambda calculus to be object-oriented at all. 02:11:59 it isn't. 02:12:35 the typed lambda calc is as I recall, at least it exhibits something like it (though as I'm sure the name tells, it's equivalent to haskell's type system) 02:12:36 Encapsulation is a pretty critical feature of OO languages, right? I guess Haskell lets you encapsulate stuff pretty well. 02:13:26 closures aren't really meaningful in haskell are they? 02:13:52 i mean you can't modify a variable, so it doesn't seem to make much difference 02:13:58 I've always been a proponent of just straight up symbol manipulation. nothing says "raw" than manipulating atomic symbols. 02:14:25 Closures are totally transparent. There's no observable difference between a closure and an ordinary function. 02:14:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:14:43 elliott: Does lens even export anything that'll let you turn Prism s t a b into s -> Either t a? 02:15:02 I think in the PIPL, symbols shouldn't just be symbols; they should be functions. 02:15:13 Indeed, functions taking a program and yielding a program. Or... uh... 02:15:54 Hang on, let me try to figure out whether or not the idea of a statically typed "remove and execute on remainder" language makes any sense at all. 02:17:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:17:54 I dunno. I want this to be a catenative language, but catenativity and RAEOR seem to be pretty much mutually exclusive. 02:18:54 Then again, if you do some sort of continuation fuckery... 02:19:07 I built a concatenative OOP language once. 02:19:10 It was horrible. 02:19:15 I burnt the script. 02:19:24 Just so nobody would ever use it. 02:19:59 Did manage to write a repl in it though 02:20:47 http://pastebin.com/PvcJ9W5j 02:23:34 Perhaps what I'm after is a language where programs can't just be written in their final form; they have to constantly construct themselves. But they should do so in a particularly elegant manner. 02:23:54 hmm 02:24:25 oo. 02:24:28 a classic way to do that is to not have looping constructs 02:24:40 so the only way to loop is to generate more program data 02:24:43 the way I'd do it is combine.. 02:24:55 a rewrite system with a brainfuck-like set of language constructs. 02:25:13 so, thue with brainfuck essentially. 02:25:25 /// is pretty much the pinnacle of some sort of ideal. 02:25:30 Not sure which one. 02:25:50 it's a part of the rewrite paradigm.. 02:26:12 can't find info on /// 02:26:17 doesn't seem to be on esolang 02:26:21 @g esolang /// 02:26:21 Maybe you meant: gazetteer get-shapr get-topic ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki v @ ? . 02:26:22 madbr: http://esolangs.org/wiki//// 02:26:26 'tis on there. 02:26:27 right. 02:26:34 so, question: does slashes need the backslash 02:26:53 Yes. Without it, there's exactly one instruction, which hangs. 02:26:57 Namely, ///. 02:27:21 i was thinking you could have another character that meant what \/ does, but then i suppose you'd want to refer to that too 02:29:06 In theory, a /// programming environment could be really nice. Like, you'd do the same thing that Smalltalk does, where you pretty much just have one single self-modifying program that you use for all of your programming. 02:29:16 And it'd be nice because you could define new syntax constantly. 02:29:30 In practice, no. 02:30:09 I'll admit I haven't researched on /// but you're in a good paradigm, Arufonsu 02:31:32 Okay, here's an idea. So, a program is a series of instructions. The instructions are SEEK(n), MARK, COPY, DELETE, and PASTE. 02:32:32 Your main memory is, of course, the remainder of the program. In addition to that, you have two cursors: the primary cursor and the mark cursor. You also have a clipboard. 02:33:29 SEEK moves the primary cursor. MARK moves the mark cursor to the primary cursor. COPY replaces the contents of the clipboard with the instructions between the primary cursor and the mark cursor. DELETE deletes everything between the primary cursor and the mark cursor. PASTE inserts the contents of the clipboard before the primary cursor. 02:37:25 so what're your actual commands of the language. 02:37:29 I mean the language has to do something right? 02:37:41 Yeah, Those are the commands. 02:37:41 those are them, i assume 02:37:51 The program manipulates itself. 02:37:52 ..SEEK, MARK, COPY, DELETE and PASTE? 02:38:01 huh 02:38:23 so this operates on a set of symbols or something? 02:38:29 it operates on itself. 02:39:03 well, alright. 02:39:26 specify some sort of loop construct for me then. 02:39:32 Working on it. 02:39:43 it's pretty easy to imagine a corewars-style gremlin 02:39:49 it is. 02:40:09 but since the only commands you specified involve manipulating the program.. 02:40:16 SEEK(4) MARK SEEK(1) COPY PASTE 02:40:18 well, yeah? 02:40:23 hm. 02:40:34 "SEEK(4) MARK SEEK(1) COPY" copies "PASTE" to the clipboard, then "PASTE" pastes "PASTE" right after itself. 02:40:36 it's not like brainfuck without i/o is worthless. 02:40:48 Bike: I never said that. 02:41:02 I just can't see the automation behind what he specified. 02:41:44 unless, I suppose, if you count a command as a sort of quanta. 02:41:50 seek being absolute seems limiting 02:41:56 and yeah. 02:41:57 make it relative. 02:41:59 singular of "quanta" is "quantum" 02:42:05 I never said it was absolute. 02:42:11 I've been thinking it was relative all along. 02:42:12 *quantum, excuse me. 02:42:13 :v 02:42:22 it's late and I'm doing system work, sue me. :P 02:42:32 I wouldn't expect it to be too hard to implement Bitwise Cyclic Tag using this stuff. 02:42:38 Lemme see here. 02:42:39 do it man! 02:42:45 for the glory of science! 02:45:01 This doesn't actually seem possible. 02:45:06 it's possible. 02:45:07 Well, not obviously. 02:45:26 There's no way to "look at" code without running it. 02:45:36 simulate it in notepad. 02:45:39 yu'll just have to make 1s and zeros different cde t run, i guess 02:45:40 step through it. 02:45:53 "it worked for underload" 02:45:57 hahaha. 02:46:01 Yeah, I guess you could make it so that 0 is one piece of code and 1 is a different piece of code. 02:46:18 yeah. 02:46:19 What pieces of code they are depends on what the program string is. 02:47:07 so you have an "alphabet" of symbols which correspond to operations at this point, and those operations only involve that alphabet. 02:47:18 Yeah, I guess so. 02:47:31 extend your operations to other symbols. 02:47:48 meaning, enable them to manipulate unreserved symbols. 02:48:19 S, M, C, D, P. 02:48:41 seek can just be integers really 02:48:46 yep. 02:48:56 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:49:14 If you had a few more cursors, everything would suddenly become way better. 02:49:22 or you could replace it with Seek and SeekBack that move one at a time, and make Seek(17) a macro for SeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeekSeek 02:49:35 hahahaha. 02:49:44 Arufonsu: or two tapes. 02:49:50 and a way to switch between them. 02:50:07 T, for tape select, flipflops between the two. 02:50:10 Like, you already have three cursors: the instruction pointer, the main cursor, and the mark. 02:51:18 We could say that SWAP exchanges the main cursor and the mark, and JUMP exchanges the main cursor and the instruction pointer. 02:52:03 WOO! ROOTKITS REMOVED! 02:52:08 HELLS YEAH. 02:52:31 (sorry, been battling nasty things for the past 3 hours.) 02:52:40 I guess now there's no great reason not to say you can't edit parts of the program that have already been executed. 02:52:53 Arufonsu: pretty much. 02:52:59 relative jumps can still extend backwards. 02:54:08 So here's a simple infinite loop: SEEK(3) SEEK(-2) JUMP 02:54:37 now, where is the main cursor. 02:54:44 at the point of JUMP. 02:56:02 (mi)3 -2 J -> 3(i)-2 J(m) -> 3(m)-2(i)J -> 3(mi)-2 J -> ???? 02:56:31 hahahaha. 02:56:33 yeah 02:56:37 that's kind of what I was wondering. 02:57:22 can't you just do SEEK(1) JUMP 02:57:32 yeah. 02:57:40 (mi)1 J -> 1(mi)J -> 1(mi)J -> etc 02:58:54 -!- clog has quit (Excess Flood). 02:59:02 -!- clog has joined. 02:59:32 SEEK(6) MARK SEEK(-6) COPY SEEK(6) PASTE is a gremlin, i think? 02:59:45 or, i guess orientatin doesn't matter. 03:00:12 so MARK SEEK(4) COPY PASTE 03:00:45 first whatever stupid thing this is golfer, thatsa me 03:01:05 Yeah, I didn't specify exactly how JUMP works. 03:01:19 oh you said /exchanges/ 03:01:20 The instruction pointer moves forward before the cursors are swapped. 03:02:03 So the main cursor ends up immediately after the JUMP instruction. 03:02:34 The PASTE command puts stuff before the main cursor, not after. 03:03:45 you're effectively performing rewrite operations, only you're using an explicit system. 03:03:47 man's always puttin me down 03:04:15 a markov algorithm can simulate your language. 03:04:36 So that'd be like, (cmi) M S4 C P -> (cm) M (i) S4 C P -> (m) M S4 (i) C P (c) -> (m) M S4 C (i) P (c) -> (m) M S4 C P (i) M S4 C P (c) -> M S4 C P M (i) S4 C P (cm) -> M S4 C P M S4 (i) C P (m) _ _ _ _ (c) 03:04:44 Where (c) is the main cursor and (m) is the mark. 03:05:08 Have I already said Markov algorithms sound like wimpmode Thue? 03:05:16 lol, wimpmode. 03:05:23 they are from the before time, son. 03:06:07 I like your approach. 03:06:28 more TM like. 03:08:46 Nah, this language sucks. 03:09:09 no. 03:09:11 it's awesome. 03:09:16 screw what you say I want more of it. 03:09:24 It's not the One True Language. 03:09:28 no language is. 03:10:10 every day is a good day when you paint.. with your mind. 03:10:57 * Arufonsu plays an ascending and descending whole tone scale. 03:12:09 the beauty of creating an esolang is that you're just defining abstractions on top of simple symbols. lots of freedom involved around that. 03:12:20 you can make 'em do anything. 03:12:23 and no idea is a bad one. 03:12:46 implement whatever comes into your head. :P 03:14:30 Still trying to figure out the One True Language here. 03:15:01 ever seen a self-replicating brainfuck program? it's beautiful. 03:15:11 Like, a quine? 03:15:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTF5z9YSs8w 03:15:20 check that shit out. 03:15:22 it's multithreaded too. 03:15:28 via a forking method iirc. 03:19:48 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:20:10 Looks like this requires me to have a glib.h. What's that from? 03:21:00 ... 03:21:03 glib? 03:21:13 you don't know what glib is? :P 03:21:36 I know what glibc is! 03:21:44 But no, this is the first I've learned what glib is. 03:21:57 What about gsl, is that related to glib? 03:22:02 lol. 03:22:35 libgsl and libglib 03:22:42 go grab 'em. 03:26:51 Apparently I actually have seven versions of glib installed. 03:27:21 that's terrifying. remedy that. 03:27:34 Only one of them is "activated". 03:28:20 So I assume "installed" means "present somewhere" and "activated" means "present in locations where applications will look for them". 03:45:32 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 03:47:02 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:50:55 All right. So, question about replifuck... 03:51:01 How do I do stuff? 03:51:16 Like, all right, memory's been initialized. I can start the machine running, but there aren't any threads. 03:51:53 Y to fork. 03:51:57 I assume. 03:52:44 How can I fork if there are no threads? 03:53:01 I dunno. Never ran it, man, don't ask me. 03:53:29 Did you mean... " Replisex " ? - French Frag Factory 03:53:34 common typos for Replisex : Replsiex, Reolisex, Rellisex, Reppisex, Repmisex, Repkisex, Replosex, Replusex, Replksex, Replieex, Repliaex, Replidex, ... 03:54:03 replidex. 03:55:43 Maybe there are supposed to be threads, and there just aren't. 03:56:15 can you run a brainfuck program? 03:56:35 Maybe, I guess. 03:57:06 sooo just run one that has a Y in it. it'll fork it. :D 03:57:07 Here we go. If I load up a program, then there are threads. 03:57:18 yyyeah 03:57:48 jesus will this scan finish up already, I have work in 4 hours. 03:58:07 Dang, Terminal.app doesn't work with my vim configuration at all. 03:58:45 When I load up vim, the entire terminal flashes at about a hertz. 04:00:52 You sure you don't have "while true; do echo ^G; sleep 1; done" in there? 04:01:04 Pretty sure. 04:01:27 Probably has something to do with mouse reporting or 8-bit color. 04:01:50 Terminal.app supports 256color these days, but not mouse reporting. 04:02:42 I don't know if that'll earn you beeps, though. Usually it's the other way 'round, with the receiving program not supporting mouse commands even though the terminal does. 04:02:50 I need to sleep(86400000). 04:04:21 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:10:25 Guess the nice thing about this is that I can just edit the source code. 04:12:28 I'm out. peace. 04:12:33 See you. 04:12:50 -!- microt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:16:15 Wow. replifuck is currently using 1.5 gigabytes of memory. 04:16:18 That seems excessive. 04:17:27 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:20:19 It had run for about 30,000 cycles, and there were 6,000 threads. So maybe each cycle leaked 50 kilobytes of memory, or maybe each thread was using 250 kilobytes of memory. 04:25:41 Huh. I took a core sample of the process, and this seems to indicate it spends roughly 99.9% of its time looking for matching parentheses. 04:26:22 The process was sampled 2,646 times, and of those 2,646 samples, 2,646 of them were in rf_find_matching_parentheses. 04:26:48 what is replifuck 04:27:12 I dunno. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTF5z9YSs8w https://github.com/jgraef/replifuck 04:32:58 oh it's one of those shared-tape evolving competing programs things 04:34:12 Yeah. 04:34:27 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:34:32 Okay, it looks like it was actually just that one single run that was spending 99.9% of its time looking for matching parentheses. 04:34:45 I've taken more samples of different runs, and these show that more interesting stuff is happening. 04:35:31 Oddly enough, it's spending about 2/3 of its time executing cycles, and 1/3 of its time deleting threads. 04:36:33 A majority of the time it spends executing cycles, it spends mutating randomly. 04:36:40 And most of that time is spent generating random numbers. 04:36:58 makes sense 04:45:25 I'm gonna program in a limit to the possible jump distance. 04:46:02 What I'm confused about is how the program apparently only searches for matching brackets in one direction. 04:46:36 Maybe the ] command uses the stack to return to its [ command. 04:48:45 I'm probably gonna ping out soon. Night, everyone. 04:52:20 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:02:47 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:03:23 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:07:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:09:01 -!- Arufonsu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:15:15 -!- muskrat has joined. 05:22:29 «@johnregehr: trying to generate code that makes G++ print lots of warnings; currently have a 300 KB file (after CPP) that gives ~800 MB of warnings» 05:22:54 does that mean he posted it or someone was addressing him 05:23:28 oh, the ambiguity 05:24:16 i blitter 05:24:48 posted it. 05:30:29 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:32:17 tgceec.tumblr.com 05:32:35 if kmc hasn't heard of this then i don't know where i went wrong 05:35:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:50:28 -!- trout has changed nick to constant. 05:52:44 hi, what 05:52:54 that's fun 06:06:28 that feeling of relief when people are like "Check out this AWFUL Hacker News article" but HN just won't load and I go on with my life 06:06:54 hell yea 06:07:23 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:19:54 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:04:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:26:45 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:35:34 it's legal well you won't get in trouble for it 07:35:50 hell yea 07:37:03 are you a bot 07:37:22 naw brah 07:37:32 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:37:35 cadabrah 07:37:36 fungot: are you a bot 07:37:36 kmc: teekkarikortti reminds me of descent1 musics. but if you really want 07:37:47 fungot: you have to tell me if you're a bot 07:37:47 kmc: he told me :) there are many people who actually do something 08:01:45 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:06:00 -!- carado has joined. 08:28:24 The world’s smallest species of deer. http://angrytorro.com/fs/i/2012/12/30/5f34722ddceecfc4999fdfd31de82c.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Pudu_puda_young_Parken_Zoo.jpg http://www.odensezoo.dk/uploads/tx_zookatalog/crop.pudu_1.506x336.jpg 08:29:02 aww 08:33:07 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:21:46 Bike: is that the same John Regehr who did this http://www.cs.utah.edu/~regehr/talks/corewar/sld001.htm 09:43:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:08:53 "We describe how to disable the [webcam-on notification] LED on a class of Apple internal iSight webcams used in some versions of MacBook laptops and iMac desktops. This enables video to be captured without any visual indication to the user and can be accomplished entirely in user space by an unprivileged (non- root) application. 10:08:58 The same technique that allows us to disable the LED, namely reprogramming the firmware that runs on the iSight, enables a virtual machine escape whereby malware running inside a virtual machine reprograms the camera to act as a USB Human Interface Device (HID) keyboard --" 10:09:02 Fancy. 10:10:51 -!- Timwi has joined. 10:11:07 * Timwi meows! 10:11:16 fizzie: :-) 10:11:26 * Timwi wonders if there is an esolang with ‘meow’ as the only keyword 10:12:42 Timwi: a port of Ook to cat? 10:13:22 Timwi: would an esolang with no keywords where you can put meow in the source and pretend it's a keyword count? 10:13:35 like for example whitespace 10:14:32 hi Timwi! 10:14:39 hows the funcitoning going? 10:32:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:42:15 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 10:42:16 Hi all 10:42:24 b_jonas: I actually thought of Ook too :) 10:42:46 quintopia: Haven’t worked on it again since the last update... but in January I think I’m definitely going to add lambda support to the compiler 10:42:52 Why do you ask? :) 10:52:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:00:29 I've gotta say, though, /// is a pretty great language. <-- smooth. 11:04:07 and he might have got away with it if not for those pesky agora followers. 11:04:49 hm wait 11:04:54 `pastelogs arufonsu 11:05:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18029 11:06:06 i guess it was here. 11:07:24 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:11:17 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 11:26:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:37:42 "We describe how to disable the [webcam-on notification] LED on a class of [...] <-- you'd think the whole _point_ of a webcam LED would be to make it entirely hardware so it _cannot_ be hacked around... 11:41:17 oerjan: I don't necessarily think so 11:41:28 oerjan: both kinds of led thing can make sense 11:41:54 a soft led can work like the red lamp in studios to know when you're on live 11:42:40 i suppose... but for that, there's no point in having a led, you can just use some indicator on the screen. 11:44:39 anyway the idea of people hacking webcams is old enough that it's _presently_ idiotic to make a LED that doesn't protect against it. 11:45:54 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:49:11 oh god how many weeks are they going to keep digging and drilling in the ground around here 11:49:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:50:41 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:50:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:52:35 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 12:07:47 -!- yorick has joined. 12:12:54 -!- atriq has joined. 12:22:14 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:24:25 oerjan: the whole point of doing it in software is to make the hardware so cheap that you can annoy every laptop buyer by force-shipping it with their laptop 12:27:09 oerjan: They did try to make it slightly hardware. 12:27:46 oerjan: To go into detail, it's tied to the same pin of the USB interface chip that enables the actual camera sensor module. 12:28:24 oerjan: They just neglected to consider the fact that the camera sensor module has a configuration register that can be used to make it not care about that signal. 12:28:59 Oh, so it is in hardware but can be overridden by software. 12:29:07 This is a good design. 12:29:18 It's the USB interface chip's firmware the attack replaces, with a version that twiddles those particular camera sensor configuration bits. 12:31:00 (The reprogramming also requires some custom USB requests, which would require special privileges on Linux, but not on OS X.) 12:38:02 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131219-isight.png is what it looks like, and while STANDBY in the camera module is asserted (i.e., the LED is off), it cannot be used to take any pictures, normally; however, there's an I2C-addressible configuration register in the MT9V112 that has bits to override that. I guess they just couldn't find a usable "lower-level" signal from the ... 12:38:08 ... image sensor, and didn't want to go through the trouble of making a separate circuit to, say, control whether the image sensor gets any power, and tie the LED to that. 12:39:13 Still, it's "more hardwarey" than just having an entirely separate GPIO pin for the LED. Just... not enough. 12:40:19 (This was for 2008 models, maybe they've fixed that since then.) 12:42:15 fizzie: marvelous 12:43:35 I don't think my laptop even has any kind of a LED, so it could be worse! 12:45:15 yeah i vaguely have the idea LEDs only got popular after the hacking started 12:53:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 12:55:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:59:22 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 13:03:07 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:46 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:19:46 good macabre morning! 13:21:33 g'day 13:21:33 Macabr? 13:23:20 atangevlobriq. 13:23:36 atriq: cf. the latest Entry to the Wisdom. 13:24:20 LinearInterpol: how's the weather in Maine? 13:24:28 (I'm atriq because now I have a bouncer which I cannot access from this computer) 13:25:50 -!- microt has joined. 13:34:17 `relcome microt 13:34:20 ​microt: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:34:58 boily: pretty friggin cold. 13:35:39 ~metar KBGR 13:35:40 KBGR 191253Z 00000KT 8SM FEW045 BKN200 M11/M12 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP158 I1000 T11061122 13:35:45 ~metar CYUL 13:35:48 CYUL 191300Z 15006KT 7SM -SN OVC032 M04/M06 A2991 RMK SC8 SLP130 13:35:55 LinearInterpol: I agree. 13:36:12 * boily is puzzled by the Innnn group... 13:37:48 ~metar EGNT 13:38:02 EGNT 191320Z 23010KT 190V260 9999 FEW020 05/01 Q0994 13:41:40 -!- microt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:52:29 fungot it. I can't find no reference whatsoever to any occurence or documentation on Innnn. 13:52:29 boily: i was thinking hp i guess, but i can't say i have values: foo, bar 13:52:59 fungot: I would be very surprised if HP were involved in that kind of report, and foo and bar are values of the wrong type. 13:52:59 boily: i'll just order the records via net... i need all three right? i.e. i'm pondering it, but that might won't scale if the input was only the continuations file that was floating around 13:54:17 fungot: good idea. I should write an email over to Bangor requesting some clarifications. I need All the Possible Information! and fyi, the weather doesn't have to scale. it's the weather, after all. 13:54:17 boily: a quill! let's interview it! :) fnord bytes now, i just couldn't stand being cut off with the 1 13:54:35 fungot: oh, an interview with an airport representative! with a fancy quill, no less! 13:54:36 boily: unless it's from microsoft, it's not strictly required. 13:54:52 fungot: bletch. I'm a Linux guy, you heretic. 14:06:36 -!- Timwi has quit. 14:11:42 -!- conehead has joined. 14:17:20 anyone know anything about http://esolang-book.route477.net/ ? it looks interesting 14:18:02 it has "exercises" that are code golf. very cute 14:18:20 not clicking. 14:20:46 nooodl: えぇと…このページは日本語で書いていました… 14:24:36 boily: そう。問題を見ない 14:30:00 * boily は楓棒でnooodlに当たります 14:32:25 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 14:33:48 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Read error: No buffer space available). 14:34:07 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 14:35:45 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 14:47:48 -!- bijumon has joined. 14:48:18 `relcome bijumon 14:48:21 ​bijumon: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:51:11 also, आपका स्वागत है! (or maybe ਵੇਲ੍ਕੋਮੇ!) 14:51:15 -!- bijumon has quit (Client Quit). 14:51:21 darn. 14:56:25 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:25:27 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:27:17 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 15:36:03 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:41:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:41:41 -!- ^v has joined. 15:42:01 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:49:08 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:52:10 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 15:52:44 -!- ^v has joined. 16:07:41 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:17:13 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 16:21:49 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:22:10 -!- ^v has joined. 16:24:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:36:16 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:52:02 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 16:52:38 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:55:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:58:45 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 16:59:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:01:29 -!- Bike has joined. 17:02:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:04:54 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:04:58 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:05:02 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 17:05:26 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:06:15 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:06:17 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:09:13 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 17:12:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:15:04 -!- 16WABRWDR has joined. 17:15:31 -!- 16WABRWDR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:15:58 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 17:16:40 lol. before my comp dies, I kinda simplified Arufonsu's language last night. 17:17:13 you can do it with A, D, C, P and N. 17:17:22 append, delete, copy, paste, null op. 17:17:35 append appends the command after it to the end of the program. 17:17:45 delete deletes the command at the very end of the program. 17:17:57 copy copies the very end of the program. 17:18:08 and paste pastes the thing previously copied. 17:18:21 and null is just null. it can be used for unary representation or something. 17:19:35 AAA -> AAAA -> AAAAA -> AAAAAA -> AAAAAAA -> AAAAAAAA -> etc. 17:20:05 peace. 17:24:36 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:35:47 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 17:37:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:58:15 LinearInterpol: what language is this? can you link? 17:59:23 b_jonas: just "reduced" it from Arufonsu's language that he speculated about last night. 18:00:31 it's possible to extend it to any non-reserved symbol. 18:00:41 and have it just ignore any unrecognized symbols. 18:00:59 it's a more.. explicit rewrite system, effectively. 18:01:47 I included the "null operation" for shit like unary counting and a dummy symbol (good practice in my regard), but it's not required. 18:02:15 and even without extending its operational reach you can just perform the same kind of ops with any other operation. 18:03:15 -!- carado has joined. 18:05:17 and LinearInterpol completes the challenge "How many times can you use the word 'operation' in a sentence?" 18:09:14 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:10:03 hi boily 18:13:27 hi quintopia. 18:13:41 i'm at a resort 18:13:44 for xmas 18:13:49 feliz navidad! 18:14:21 quintopia: ¿en qué país estas tu? 18:14:54 (¡feliz año nuevo!) 18:14:56 aroempiunbilciacn 18:15:11 s/ar/dr/ 18:15:33 eh? 18:18:07 LinearInterpol: ok, but I don't get the context because I don't know the original speculation 18:18:54 LinearInterpol: is it something similar to the (likely not turing complete) automatons defined in Smullyan's books (in Lady and the Tiger, and in Arabian whatsit) 18:19:12 boily: unscramble the code! 18:19:59 -!- Chillectual has joined. 18:21:07 b_jonas: nah. some dude came in last night and specified a system that modifies itself. 18:21:11 quintopia: well... it sounds very much like dominican republic... oh. you interlaced the parts. 18:21:23 a system for effectively specifying self-modifying programs. 18:21:28 quintopia: so, how's the weather down there, you vile vacationer? 18:21:49 boily: warm and humid with bouts of light rain 18:22:09 don't worry, i'm still up there in the cold with you in spirit 18:22:47 even as i sip my included alcoholic beverages on my private beach waiting to eat at my included sushi restaurant 18:23:03 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:23:35 ... 18:23:37 (*(*(c.abd.ef)d)e) -> e 18:23:39 AAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH! 18:23:44 rage. 18:23:46 yes. 18:24:07 * boily oils and hones his mapole... “the vengeance will be terrible! and polite, eh!” 18:24:42 tu es quebequoi? 18:25:12 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 18:25:14 il semblerait pas mal que je le suis en effet. 18:25:34 poutine. 18:25:55 ça fait étrangement un bout que j'en ai mangé. je pense que je suis dû. 18:26:14 (mais il faut pas me prendre comme exemple du québécois moderne. je mange plus de phở que de poutine.) 18:26:18 oui. 18:26:21 i can only half read that 18:26:29 je ne parles pas francais. 18:26:46 mmm phoshapedthing 18:26:49 LinearInterpol: for someone who doesn't speak French, yours is quite good. 18:27:02 quintopia: it's not made to be read, but to be Experienced. 18:27:08 lol. 18:27:18 je ne etudie pas francais. 18:27:37 parce que je suis idiot. 18:28:05 bah. y'a plein de langues dans le monde. le français en est juste une. 18:28:18 what languages are you studying? 18:28:24 none! 18:28:25 :D 18:29:14 then how many do you speak? 18:29:47 two only somewhat. 18:29:50 well. 18:29:56 one is my native, one is my.. secondary. 18:29:59 english and french. 18:30:07 I live in maine. 18:30:18 And we used to go over to Canada occasionally. 18:30:29 So I picked up some. 18:30:46 French has this tendency to be osmotically picked by people who come in contact with it. 18:31:04 where did you go? have you visited Montréal? 18:31:12 oui. 18:31:18 I drove through montreal on my way to Michigan. 18:31:29 we also used to go to St. John. 18:33:27 Combien de temps tu etudie l'informatique? 18:33:36 (that probably didn't make any sense.) 18:33:45 (it makes sense.) 18:34:08 j'ai fait mon baccalauréat en génie informatique entre 2007 et 2011. je suis maintenant employé à temps plein dans une boîte de logiciels libres. 18:34:48 ahh, tu aimes emploi, no? 18:35:01 >_>'... <_<'... 18:35:07 lol. 18:35:11 uhm. I'm thinking of switching jobs. 18:35:16 yeesh. 18:35:24 best luck in that. it's a hard road. 18:35:33 you a sysadmin? 18:35:40 no, a developer in the ERP team. 18:35:44 ERP? 18:35:49 Enterprise Resource Planning. 18:36:05 that sounds like middle-management hell. 18:37:22 it depends. it's majoritairement more like web development, but then there are some bureaucratically hellish projects. 18:37:55 strict requirements like that suck. 18:38:38 the strictness of the requirements is not bad, it's when you're stuck with vague, undefinable jargonish buzzwordian requirements that I'm irked. 18:39:00 go into engineering! we're all about overly verbose specifications. 18:39:22 I am an engineer. I proudly wear my Iron Ring. 18:39:29 :D 18:40:34 brb for a sec. 18:40:35 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 18:40:56 doesthelloswork. 18:42:51 boily: we have an ERP system that's really really bad and I'm going to blame you for it 18:45:06 olsner: I accept responsibility. dabbling in an ERP's source code is worse for your brains than trying to read multiple necronomiconses at the same time. 18:47:38 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:50:39 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:50:57 The erp goes burp. 18:51:28 herpa derp 18:51:38 erp goes burp, fungot goes markov, but what does the XML say ♪ 18:51:51 fungot: fungot goes markov 18:51:51 olsner: i should start on my bestselling book series, starting with the slow version and applying algebraic transformations of programs i use. 18:52:28 fungot: neat, what's it about and when will it start bestselling? 18:52:28 olsner: never heard of it. i'll give that a try 18:54:38 fizzie: I insist. your bot, it is way too sentient. 18:54:40 hello, fungot! 18:54:40 shachaf: 2 gregorr: ps ( thread-id 28) created a useful/ fnord graphical diagram of the 100+ operators in the c-intercal manual, automatically translated from brainfuck constants on the wiki 18:57:03 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 18:59:13 except when not. 18:59:35 fungot: scary 18:59:36 b_jonas: nobody forces you to use pcre, posix regexps, or whatever 19:00:33 fungot: s//well, I do/ 19:00:33 boily: i can fnord my nick. 19:00:40 fungot: please do. 19:00:40 boily: is my tabbing a wonky?? 19:00:45 fungot: mine sure is. 19:00:45 boily: wonder how much progress happened in the early 1980s it was that large class of people reads, do so few people use fnord chez plt weirdos use .ss, and the 19:04:04 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:07:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:07:57 "created a useful/fnord graphical diagram of the 100+ operators in the c-intercal manual, automatically translated from brainfuck constants on the wiki" 19:08:36 how many sentences is that pieced together from 19:08:37 ? 19:10:10 i mean because that's an awesome sentence. 19:14:48 ayay 19:14:57 why is there still no IronScheme compiler 19:15:49 It's almost like they want me to create my own lisp dialect and compile it myself to cil 19:16:33 Challenge accepted. 19:17:08 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 19:19:07 "I can fnord my nick" 19:22:22 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:22:54 -!- Chillectual has joined. 19:23:25 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:24:53 anybody knows if there is an "easy" (i.e. not involving too much java) way to make text based applications for android? 19:24:59 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:25:27 You can use Java without using Eclipse. 19:25:35 What's a text-based application? 19:26:16 myname: text-based on android? 19:26:41 ncurses or the like 19:26:52 shachaf: you can. but when doing android development, you're way better off with and IDE and the Google libs. 19:26:54 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:26:58 e.g. there is a nethack port 19:27:14 I made a small Android application without using Eclipse. 19:27:15 -!- Chillectual has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:27:22 shachaf: impressive. 19:27:33 myname: the easy way is to make a webpage you run on an external server and access it from the android phone 19:27:47 that doesn't need any java 19:28:04 b_jonas: i actually prefer that atm, it needs active internet connection, though 19:28:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:29:57 with recenter android versions, the performance of the web widget isn't too bad. 19:44:38 myname: there's also MIT's app inventor 19:45:03 what's that? 19:45:08 so i decided to log onto facebook from france and typoed my password 19:45:20 and now it's asking for my birthdate 19:45:33 like i'd know what i put there :P 19:45:41 myname: http://appinventor.mit.edu/explore/ 19:57:23 looks interesting 20:09:38 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:10:04 -!- augur has joined. 20:13:46 http://www.businessinsider.com/927-people-own-half-of-the-bitcoins-2013-12 ha ha 20:14:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:16:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:16:45 -!- oklopol has joined. 20:18:16 are those the Winklevii 20:18:27 think so 20:21:29 and then, you get http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/12/why-i-want-bitcoin-to-die-in-a.html 20:29:14 Wasn't there just a story on how FBI owns a big pile of bitcoins. 20:29:30 delicious mincemeat pies 20:30:05 Android keyboard on this thing, on the other hand, does not even want to *spell* bitcoin. 20:30:31 Nixon. Nixon. Bourdon. Bourdon. No go. 20:31:27 boily: i heard a fun comment on that article yesterday "this reads to me like why i don't want bitcoin to die in a fire. does this make me a libertarian?" 20:32:06 fizzie: all the ones they confiscated from DPR and friends 20:32:20 He wants to buy drugs and child pornography 20:32:21 i think weed should be legal, does that make me a libertarian? 20:33:14 No 20:33:19 That makes you a leftist 20:33:30 actually neither, but thanks for playing 20:33:33 It makes you a rastafarian, doesn't it. 20:33:34 US libertarians care more about taxes 20:34:08 i think hugs should be legal 20:34:15 what am i 20:34:20 a deviant. 20:34:23 You are a 20:34:26 Huguenot 20:35:00 kmc: it makes you a drug hippie? 20:35:41 It makes you Carl Sagan 20:36:11 In related (not actually) news, I thought I heard someone in a SA game speed-race and/or a LP video (one does browse a lot of YouTube when in bed, sick) refer to a "kmc". 20:36:25 quintopia: it just means it's healthier to burn paper money than ASICs to heat yourself. 20:36:29 is that like kimchi 20:36:49 Kentucky Modified Chicken 20:36:56 It was some kind of a person, judging from context. 20:37:22 You are a kmc 20:37:48 (Audio quality was p. bad, v. possible they said something altogether different.) 20:38:12 boily: you don't need to burn them. asics provide plenty of heat when operating normally 20:38:23 indeed, you might consider heating your house that way 20:38:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:39:25 fungot: how do you heat your house? 20:39:25 olsner: the scheme48 command processor/ repl has a wildly different integer.) still don't cut it. i just wanted to say hello to evoli. almost any other country. 20:40:17 (I guess it wasn't "our" (possession not implied) kmc?) 20:40:20 fungot: if your scheme48 command processor can heat your house, then maybe you need a more environmental cpu. 20:40:21 oerjan: he's not online so can't really help you... but i've got it to work 20:40:32 'twasn't 20:40:39 what game? 20:40:55 there is more than one kmc? shocking. 20:40:59 Resonance LP, I think. 20:41:34 oerjan: It's an Intel Atom, that ought to be environmental enough. 20:41:58 atangevlobriq. <-- i keep thinking that if he'd just been atrix instead, he could have been a hand cream _and_ an ancient gaul. 20:42:45 Atangevlobrix, de l'Oréal. Parce que vous le tanebbez bien. 20:43:11 fizzie: i take it your house is very well insulated if that's all your heating, then. 20:44:38 oerjan: It's not really "my house" when it's just an apartment in a building, and I don't know what kaukolämpö is in English. 20:45:12 fungot and the kaukolämpö cooperate with the heating then? 20:45:12 olsner: do you know rtl? must be in /pb/ though.) that runs on linux win32 and fnord fnord 20:45:13 hm i think gt's translation to english is rigth, but norwegian should be "fordi du fortjener det" 20:45:34 fizzie: district heating??? 20:45:47 boily: Seems that way. 20:45:51 boily: ah, fjärrvärme? 20:46:05 it doesn't even make sense in French! «chauffage urbain»??? 20:46:13 olsner: Sounds quite literal. 20:46:23 *right 20:46:25 fizzie: so, like, the city heats you? 20:46:29 fizzie: yes, it's literally the swedish word 20:47:24 boily: It's pretty ubiquitous here for apartment buildings in an urban-enough setting. 20:47:42 Warm water in pipes, I believe. 20:48:00 boily: hm he can also be a motorola phone, it seems. 20:48:05 (No, Android keyboard, not warm water in puppies.) 20:48:16 I wonder if any computer application uses non-integer bases 20:48:19 Like 20:48:24 Base e real calculations 20:48:38 You can write it in binary, and it has great radix economy! 20:49:39 `olist (935) 20:49:41 olist (935): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 20:49:58 Danke 20:49:58 boily: atrix seems to be beiersdorf, not l'oreal. 20:52:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:52:30 oerjan: but I can't mangle beiersdorf as well as l'oréal. 20:53:05 Wasn't there something re phase phi? 20:54:18 There's some analog to digital thing that uses phase phi, yes 20:54:22 fungot: fizzie isn't making sense. are you stealing his sentience? 20:54:22 boily: best distortion ever used pthread. and that's the part where he calls someone " fnord" prefix and some don't even have a grammar, hows that? 20:54:24 bse* 20:54:45 Base phi, I mean. 20:54:58 echo "The Macabres have been the hereditary rulers of Lochaber for 3 centuries." > wisdom/macabre <-- incidentally i have improved `learn so it should handle that directly now. 20:55:17 is that the same as fibonacci base or whatever those're called? 20:55:22 But I am wondering for plain old real floating point thing 20:55:23 Nah 20:55:31 Base phi is just like 20:55:49 olsner: It did seem related to Fibonacci coding. 20:55:59 the ratio between adjacent fibonacci numbers goes towards phi, iirc 20:56:01 abcd = a*phi^3 + b*phi^2 + c*phi + d 20:56:02 oerjan: took it long enough 20:56:05 `log (934) 20:56:24 2009-09-06.txt:16:00:19: http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9343.jpg <-- not too much off, but don't remember the bit that is sticking out on the right side of the screen 20:57:13 `log \(934\) 20:57:20 2013-12-19.txt:20:56:05: `log (934) 20:57:24 sigh 20:57:53 `log olist.*[9][3][4] 20:57:58 2013-12-07.txt:15:47:32: `olist 934 20:58:06 wow 20:58:12 `pastlog olist.*[9][3][4] 20:58:19 2013-12-07.txt:15:47:36: olist 934: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 20:58:24 oerjan: there are way too many different log commands 20:58:30 how do i even know which one does what 20:59:15 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:00:23 `pastalog olist.*[9][3][4] 21:00:30 2012-07-10.txt:09:17:49: log pasta 21:00:40 Oh, right 21:00:46 pastalog is pastlog pasta 21:01:05 `cat bin/learn 21:01:06 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(a\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." 21:01:08 whois soundnfury? 21:01:11 -!- augur has joined. 21:01:28 @tell soundnfury do you use tomatoes or pesto for your logs? 21:01:28 Consider it noted. 21:01:30 they signify nothing? 21:02:16 `run sed -i '2s/[(]a/(an\?/' bin/learn # missed one 21:02:20 No output. 21:02:29 `cat bin/learn 21:02:30 ​#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//') \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." 21:02:35 -!- carado has joined. 21:02:38 oops, hm 21:03:07 `learn An omalous wisdom is anomalous. 21:03:12 I knew that. 21:03:16 `? omalou 21:03:18 omalou? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:03:45 `run sed -i '2s/?/\\?/' bin/learn # missed one 21:03:49 No output. 21:03:52 `learn An omalous wisdom is anomalous. 21:03:56 I knew that. 21:03:59 `? omalou 21:04:00 An omalous wisdom is anomalous. 21:04:35 `quote oerjan 21:04:37 7) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 15) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 18) In an alternate universe, ehird 21:04:38 `cat wisdom/an 21:04:39 sigh 21:04:39 An omalous wisdom is anomalous. 21:04:50 what's the command that gives you a random quote 21:04:53 `run rm wisdom/{an,omalou} 21:04:57 No output. 21:04:58 `quote 21:04:59 229) !bfjoust furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls http://sprunge.us/eKWa * Sgeo had no idea that Gregor was hetero 21:05:04 by a person 21:05:07 oh 21:05:09 `quoerjan 21:05:11 815) `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 has joined #esoteric thank you You're welcome. 21:05:15 thx 21:05:19 * kmc is confused by #229 21:05:37 `quote 21:05:39 362) i never meta turing. he died before i was born. 21:05:42 `quote 21:05:43 540) But whereas the Zune UI makes one think "I want to kill myself", the Windows CE UI makes one think "I want to kill myself, but first kill my parents as punishment for bringing into this world someone who would one day own a Windows CE device." 21:06:03 `quoerjan 21:06:05 1043) this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam. 21:06:21 ̀quoerjan 21:06:32 `quachaf 21:06:34 604) VMS Mosaic? I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS. \ 614) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example. \ 618) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has g 21:06:43 `quily 21:06:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quily: not found 21:06:46 ... 21:06:51 `qungot 21:06:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qungot: not found 21:07:08 ̀quc 21:07:20 `printf '#!/bin/sh\n\nexec quote fungot' > bin/qungot && chmod +x bin/qungot 21:07:20 kmc: the sorrow! " my little mind wondered the depth of a list as and then it all died... now, i'm sure. 21:07:21 ​'#!/bin/sh \ \ exec quote fungot' > bin/qungot && chmod +x bin/qungot 21:07:25 `run printf '#!/bin/sh\n\nexec quote fungot' > bin/qungot && chmod +x bin/qungot 21:07:25 kmc: gambit has ( with-output-to-string thunk)) form1 ( lambda () ( display ( and ( x z) 21:07:29 No output. 21:07:32 `qungot 21:07:34 11) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 14) Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 15) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. plea 21:08:24 `quintopia 21:08:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quintopia: not found 21:08:50 `quote 618 # a good one 21:08:52 No output. 21:08:52 quintopia: :D 21:08:55 right. 21:09:00 `run quote 618 # comment? 21:09:02 618) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. 21:09:04 bam 21:09:09 that's me 21:09:23 `run ls bin/qu* 21:09:25 bin/quachaf \ bin/queegan \ bin/quine \ bin/quine2 \ bin/qungot \ bin/quoerjan \ bin/quonoid \ bin/quørjan \ bin/quote \ bin/quotes 21:09:26 `quote 686 21:09:28 686) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. 21:09:35 fascinating 21:09:40 `cat bin/quoerjan 21:09:41 allquotes | grep oerjan | shuf | head -n 1 21:09:52 `run quine 21:09:56 ​`run quine 21:10:02 `qungot 21:10:04 11) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 14) Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 15) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. plea 21:10:09 `quine 21:10:12 ​`quine 21:10:16 v. good 21:10:30 `cat bin/quine 21:10:31 ​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; cat $(ls ????-??-??.txt | tail -1) | sed 's/[^>]*> //' | grep '^`' | tail -1 #Best cheating quine ever? 21:10:36 hmm why not backtick? 21:10:37 Nice. 21:10:56 ``quine 21:10:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `quine: not found 21:11:00 alas 21:11:29 `` 21:11:30 No output. 21:11:39 `` quine 21:11:42 ​`` quine 21:11:44 ~echo `quine 21:11:44 `quine 21:11:50 meh. 21:11:50 ​`quine 21:11:53 oh. 21:11:55 :D 21:12:01 Yay for not following the RFC 21:12:15 * boily pats his bot “Good boy!” 21:12:21 ~echo ~echo `quine 21:12:22 ~echo `quine 21:12:30 err, duh 21:12:43 ~echo `echo ~echo `quine 21:12:43 `echo ~echo `quine 21:12:44 ​~echo `quine 21:12:55 good hackego 21:12:59 wtf 21:13:03 good hackego 21:13:09 quintopia: No, that kluge isn’t “good”, following the RFC would be good. 21:13:32 ion: what problem do you have with zero width spaces 21:14:21 Yay for not following the RFC <-- one day i _will_ snap and kick you for blathering about this long since unreasonable to fix issue. 21:14:52 `pastlog RFC 21:14:59 2010-09-04.txt:23:33:36: Phantom_Hoover__, irc rfc* 21:14:59 well, or i might get hit by a bus first, i guess. 21:16:19 ion is someone snapped by RFCes. oerjan drives the bus that will hit himself. 21:16:41 ion drives the bus that prevents oerjan from snapping 21:17:23 `run grep bus wisdom/* 21:17:27 wisdom/finland:Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. \ wisdom/homestuck:Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. Best summarized by http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05743.gif \ wisdom/narutoverse:narutovers 21:17:49 i don't really understand the bus thing 21:17:53 `run grep -l '\bbus\b' wisdom/* 21:17:55 wisdom/finland \ wisdom/homestuck \ wisdom/narutoverse \ wisdom/narutoversee 21:18:06 quintopia: i think the finland one is the original. 21:18:19 quintopia: it is in the Wisdom, so it is there, and it is to be. 21:18:21 was that... a filename? 21:18:23 unless that's based on a meme from elsewhere. 21:18:28 where does the name corun come from? 21:18:33 no, wait, of course not. 21:18:46 `run diff narutoverse* 21:18:48 diff: missing operand after `narutoverse*' \ diff: Try `diff --help' for more information. 21:19:06 `run diff wisdom/nautoverse* # hth 21:19:07 diff: missing operand after `wisdom/nautoverse*' \ diff: Try `diff --help' for more information. 21:19:18 tdh 21:19:20 olsner: in some universe, pumpkins like to run. in this one, copumpkins corun. 21:19:22 I guess it helps to type correctly too 21:19:22 -!- Nithir has joined. 21:19:39 `run diff wisdom/narutoverse* # hth 21:19:40 1c1 \ < narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. Sgeo drives the bus. \ --- \ > narutoverse is a place where they haven't heard of having a bus factor of >1. 21:19:53 pumpkins don't run! not even the dogs fly 21:20:08 `rm wisdom/narutoversee 21:20:11 No output. 21:20:14 olsner: but codogs cofly 21:20:28 maintaining the Wisdom is oerjanly hard... 21:20:31 What about yotes? what do they do? 21:20:35 quintopia: do bots botfly? 21:20:35 originally? 21:20:42 tip: strange filenames differing by appending e usually happens because someone misunderstands sed option syntax. 21:21:03 -!- Nithir has left. 21:21:04 FireFly: somewhere they mmand vertly 21:21:09 (you cannot combine -i and -e into -ie) 21:21:29 quintopia: ol 21:21:58 hmm, so something like sed -ie asdf s,,,g creates asdfe? 21:22:37 `man sed 21:22:39 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 21:22:46 ~duck sed 21:22:46 well shit. 21:22:46 sed definition: sedimentation. 21:22:49 yes 21:23:42 olsner: well probably creates s,,,ge iirc 21:24:26 olsner: sed: impossible de lire s,,,g: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type 21:24:31 aah, -i takes a suffix 21:24:55 (you usually don't need -e at all, since one sed command argument is the default and you can concatenate them with ;) 21:25:38 I've found that some commands refuse to concatenate though (don't remember which ones) 21:26:16 olsner: i expect those like a that take several lines of text to insert 21:26:25 I think -e predates ;, maybe 21:27:11 hmm, you can't use ; in a script passed with -e? that might explain it 21:28:06 `run echo test | sed -e 's/t/u/;s/t/v/' 21:28:07 uesv 21:28:13 olsner: nope, that's not it 21:28:50 `run echo test | sed -e 'ayo;s/t/v/' 21:28:52 test \ yo;s/t/v/ 21:29:12 confirming my a suspicion. 21:29:39 I need to locate that thing that broke, it did involve some of the "fancier" sed commands though 21:30:54 presumably any instance where the ; can be a continuation of the current command won't split. 21:31:31 and a,i,c which take text to insert would be prime examples. 21:32:07 `run echo test | sed -e 's/t/;/;s/t/v/' 21:32:09 ​;esv 21:32:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CARTE DE POULET). 21:32:37 `run echo test | sed -e 's;t;u;;s/t/v/' 21:32:38 uesv 21:36:39 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:37:49 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:38:17 -!- jix has joined. 21:47:02 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:08:53 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:14:16 oh man, i just coincidentally saw 'crimbo' in the wild. wtf, commonwealthers. 22:14:31 what did that mean again? 22:14:39 for crimbo i want bangers & mash 22:15:07 Bike: commonwealthers? did you see it from a non-UK source? 22:15:27 Sounds like the kind of crap the Aussies'd say 22:15:38 olsner: christmas 22:15:52 kmc: i think he's uk but originally american, i just felt like being broad 22:15:56 jimminy crimbo 22:16:12 Bike: oh, crimbo! 22:16:18 yeah 22:22:13 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:26:29 ^unscramble aroempiunbilciacn 22:26:29 anrcoaeimcpliiubn 22:26:47 quintopia: NOPE 22:27:39 http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/c/kimian.c 22:28:13 site seems down 22:28:24 which site 22:28:31 mauke dot hopto dot org 22:28:38 it seems up to me 22:28:39 -!- realzies has joined. 22:28:54 works4me 22:29:14 hm. mysterious. 22:29:17 ^scramble aroempiunbilciacn 22:29:17 aominicancilbuper 22:29:28 hm i see 22:29:45 i sense an error. 22:29:51 this table is really really sticky. 22:29:58 Bike: anyway it's just a quine 22:31:49 oh there was a s/ar/dr/ 22:33:08 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:33:24 "Packing a range of Intel Xeon processors, the new Mac Pro is more than twice as fast as its predecessor, released three years ago" 22:34:06 free range processors 22:34:31 -!- oklopol has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:44:33 -!- muskrat has joined. 22:47:59 `pastlog brainfuck constants on the wiki 22:48:08 2006-10-20.txt:17:27:04: fine. as for those 105 plusses, take a look at Brainfuck constants on the wiki. 22:48:18 `pastlog brainfuck constants on the wiki 22:48:25 2006-10-20.txt:17:27:04: fine. as for those 105 plusses, take a look at Brainfuck constants on the wiki. 22:48:33 OKAY 23:03:38 @google brainfuck constants on the wiki 23:03:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants 23:03:39 Title: Brainfuck constants - Esolang 23:04:03 -!- microt has joined. 23:04:18 exactly what it says on the tin 23:12:47 "Unleashed my whirling dervish one last time to LMFAO's Party Rockin, now headed home to begin Crimbo break" seriously brits, these aren't real words 23:13:19 I think a whirling dervish is a type of dance 23:13:36 LMFAO's Party Rockin is perhaps a pop song 23:13:54 and crimbo is crimbo! 23:14:59 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 23:15:20 You know, I was sure crimbo meant criminal 23:15:43 it's a muslim religious dancer of sorts. 23:17:00 the dance consists of rotating. 23:17:04 -!- muskrat has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:17:08 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 23:17:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Cf-ZxDfZA 23:25:43 "For example, we demonstrated extracting a 4096-bit RSA key from a Lenovo ThinkPad T61 by observing the change in its chassis potential from the far side of a 10 meters long Ethernet cable" 23:26:38 that's p. good 23:34:41 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:35:10 -!- augur has joined. 23:37:54 hey kmc what was that thing with CAs and auditing mozilla was doing 23:38:06 uh i don't remember a specific one 23:38:15 some new system? 23:38:46 sorry 23:38:57 -!- microt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:39:12 oh well 23:39:16 thanks anyway 23:39:33 tell me if you find it 23:53:59 99 brainfuck constants on the wiki, 99 brainfuck constants. take one down, increment it, 100 brainfuck constants on the wiki 23:54:31 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:56:37 FireFly: itym 256 hth 23:56:54 or did someone add some even larger ones 23:56:55 good point 23:57:40 ah there's 333 23:58:05 i think i hallucinated this thing 2013-12-20: 00:00:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:04:38 FireFly: so, 257 actually. 00:12:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:12:47 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:17:29 -!- blop has joined. 00:18:08 -!- blop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:18:25 -!- blop has joined. 00:18:52 boo ! I'm a ghoooooost 00:19:00 oh non 00:19:53 what is this chan about ? 00:19:56 programmation ? 00:20:01 `welcome blop 00:20:03 blop: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:20:27 so, yeah, programming. 00:22:34 it's about designing programming languages which are useless on purpose rather than by accident 00:22:57 That what I'm seeing, it seems fun :) 00:23:07 i don't think they have to be useless 00:23:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:24:59 the fact that to be "esoteric" don't help them to be usefull 00:26:34 every program should be writted in Brainfuck++ :)) 00:28:17 About the olist: 00:28:19 "There are some slight changes in color and font rendering from normal, due to the fact that I'm working on a different machine with different versions of all the programs I usually use. I'll try to iron these out as we go forward." 00:33:29 -!- blop has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:39:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:39:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 00:39:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:53:00 oerjan: oh, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ioun_Stone 00:56:13 I have never played tabletop D&D but the rules seem incredibly convoluted and arbitrary 00:56:22 (thus on topic??) 00:56:27 they're pretty ok except for grappling. 01:06:25 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:08:43 -!- Chillectual has joined. 01:09:06 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 01:12:11 -!- microt has joined. 01:13:52 Why does The Onion have a crush on Alan Alda 01:25:16 -!- microt has left ("Leaving"). 01:35:35 kmc: https://cure53.de/xmas2013/ 01:38:52 The Cubli: a cube that can jump up, balance, and 'walk' http://youtu.be/n_6p-1J551Y 01:40:05 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:57:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:35:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:39:13 -!- ^v has joined. 02:41:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:42:39 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:44:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:45:21 -!- augur has joined. 02:46:35 kmc: i'm not sure how to get the data. i must be missing something 02:46:42 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:46:45 perhaps i'll be sure if i think about it 02:47:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:47:13 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:50:03 in the UK, Christmas is known as Crimbo and Santa Claus is known as Crimbo Jones 02:54:18 -!- Chillectual has joined. 02:57:00 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:04:28 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:10:40 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 03:30:26 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:31:44 My IP address has now changed to 24.207.57.25. I will update the DNS when I am able to do so. 03:35:05 so it has 03:35:24 does your domain point to your own personal computer at home? 03:35:41 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:36:05 Yes. 03:36:14 (Well, now it doesn't work, but it will once I fix it) 03:38:25 cool 03:38:56 do you have any github projects zzo38? 03:39:02 No 03:39:39 ok 03:43:06 I do have some git repositories on repo.or.cz though (but they haven't been updated in a long time) 03:43:13 http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/1qos6m/meta_why_does_this_subreddit_have_the_css_display/cdf7lr4?context=1 03:44:28 ion: ++ 03:45:01 Would the Russian algorithm be better than using the algorithm I have currently used for multiplication of two sixteen-bit numbers? 03:51:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:52:13 -!- Bike has joined. 03:57:10 wat http://www.dilbertfiles.com/ 04:00:23 -!- Chillectual has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:05:36 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:18:39 interesting 04:23:25 Where’s GarfieldFiles? 04:23:35 GarFiles 04:24:55 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:41:36 http://www.coinion.com/ "UNITED STATES DOLLAR ALMOST DOUBLES IN VALUE IN A SINGLE DAY" 04:42:06 "SATOSHI NAKAMOTO REVEALED AS KEANU REEVES" oh hell ye 04:45:12 kmc: Yeah :-) 04:45:46 "The currency has been losing value for 227 years in a row." 04:46:03 Not actually true... 04:46:17 We've had years of net USD deflation. :) 04:47:12 "This is not the first time the currency has seen a fast rise in value. On April 10th this year, it rose over 60% in a single day. However, the fast rises are dangerously deceiving: after each such gain, the currency slowly devalued each time, in what can be described a slow-motion crash." i can't tell if this is seriously supposed to be pro-bitcoin 04:50:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Bye.). 04:50:47 like... i don't get the satire here. is the point that giving bitcoins value based on usd trading is silly because like 04:51:08 tbh I didn't read the article but the headline made me laugh out loud 04:51:13 (often the case with the onion as well) 04:51:19 yeah :/ 04:54:43 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:55:18 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:00:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:07:04 Bike: pretty sure it's anti-bitcoin 05:08:30 sometimes satire doesn't have to make a strong point in favor of one side but only view things from a different perspective than usual or something 05:10:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:10:36 elliott: http://www.coinion.com/2013/12/07/after-bitcoin-congress-also-considering-banning-surgery-and-space-exploration-says-too-complicated/ etc 05:16:34 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:55:54 heh 05:58:38 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:13:05 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:15:47 22:14 Hello. I want to learn Haskell, which book do you recommend? I have background of C, Emacs Lisp, Scheme, and Clojure programming 06:15:50 22:14 LYAH is popular, but... Scheme and Clojure, you're probably curious about metaprogramming to some extent 06:16:06 Sgeo: i think that's just you 06:16:32 haskell is valuable to learn for reasons not having to do with "metaprogramming" 06:17:04 Sure, but the question may still come up? 06:17:14 Nah 06:22:41 "Me coming from imperative programming was never introduced to backticks in syntax." 06:23:09 me bike 06:23:42 haskell is v. innovative 06:23:57 ME BILL 06:24:29 :'( 06:28:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:33:33 `run perl -lwe 'print `echo backticks`' 06:33:37 backticks 06:33:56 ion: perl isn't imperative enough to forbid backticks 06:43:17 I realized I forgot to mention an illusion I made up, in the most recent recording of Dungeons&Dragons game. 06:47:01 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 06:47:03 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 06:47:21 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 07:06:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:12:25 I fixed it 07:24:09 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:27:34 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:27:44 In this "Unhuman Alliance", there is a vending machine and it sells many kind of items, including a qualitative calculator, a cloak of invisibility to humans, a sign with "Oak: Now is not the time to use that!" written on it, a suitcase, a portable spaceship, a half red and half invisible pill, and you can buy one or two eggs, but buying two eggs costs less than buying only one. 07:28:01 what's a qualitative calculator 07:28:41 Bike: I think it is a calculator that can only display "+", "-", and "0". I wouldn't think it is very good. 07:29:35 I don't know how large a vending machine has to be to sell suitcases (or portable spaceships, however that works), either. 07:30:35 -!- carado has joined. 07:42:48 If a hole in a ceiling is blocked by a hovering platform, how should the bottom of the platform be described? 07:43:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:43:57 'there was a shitload of wind coming down' 07:45:11 a windload of shit 07:45:44 I mean the appearance of the platform itself (and how it would appear in such a position), and anyways it is able to fly without wind for some reason. 07:46:32 there's a hole in the ceiling. with your keen deductive powers, you notice that it is blocked, but with a few hands of leeway 07:46:35 i assume you use horse units 07:48:11 Well, I am sorry I made a mistake; it isn't really a hole, but rather the ceiling simply extends much higher so it is another room above with no walls to separate it from the room below (you cannot enter unless you fly or use the hover platform) 07:48:29 you see a hole in the see-ling. a few hands above the hole there's some kind of flat expanse. you think you can see miniature people walking upside down on the expanse. they have constructed a small civilization. you wonder what will happen when they build skyscrapers. 07:50:19 after some thought, you realize that, small as the upside-down people are - a few millithumbs at most - skyscrapers will be too adversely affected by forces such as turbulence to be constructed, even though at your scale these things don't matter so much. you reflect on how tall you really are. 07:51:43 I don't know how tall your characters are. 07:52:31 There aren't any people standing on the bottom part of the hovering platform. Even if there was, it wouldn't work if the platform is coming back down! 07:52:52 It would work, you'd just crush them. Good moral quandary for your players. 07:53:15 And anyways characters of different height might come in the room where this is viewed from (the same room containing the vending machine). 07:53:54 You see a hole in the ceiling. A few hands above the hole, there is a small flat surface. It's probably a hover platform. You wonder why they don't just hang it from the ceiling with chains or something. You briefly start charting out a potential pulley system to save on magic energy before being interrupted by the vending machine. 07:54:43 I can use something like that perhaps 07:55:02 Maybe it actually uses a pulley system. It's not like you can see above the platform. But you're used to magicians being ridiculous and hard to deal with by now. What the heck is a portable rocket? 07:55:05 Although like I said it isn't really a hole 07:55:30 I'm not sure I understand what you meant. Does it slope? 07:55:34 the ceiling. 07:55:51 -!- farrioth has joined. 07:55:52 It is an adjoining room without any partitions, except that instead of next to it on the ground, it is above. 07:56:18 so... how do you see up there? 07:56:29 Like is there a door or something. 07:56:42 a ceiling-door 07:57:17 No, there is no door, but the actual ceiling is higher than it should be for one room (since the adjoining rooms that are to the north, south, east, west do not have such a high ceiling) 07:57:43 Oh. 07:59:00 This room is much higher than the room you were just in; in fact, it looks to be twice as high. You see rooms adjoining above you. There is no floor, but you can see a hovering platform potentially useful for upper-room-halling. You wonder how you can incorporate all this into your next Octopus of the World game. 07:59:47 And there is actual things in the room above like if someone can fly they can use them, or someone standing on a hovering platform can also use it even if you cannot fly. 08:00:34 As you walk into the room, you immediately notice the ceiling. It is higher than the rest of the ceilings you've seen, and also covered in a mural-style still-life of a piece of cheesecake. A cherry on the cake is obscured by a hovering platform. 08:00:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:01:10 What kind of sick fucker puts a cherry on cheesecake, you think to yourself 08:01:49 Maybe people who like to make cherry cheesecake, will do so. 08:04:20 You are filled with dread as you walk into the room. Your eyes inch up and - yes, the room is too tall. After a deep breath, you steal a quick glance straight up - oh thank god, there's a small hovering platform directly above you. But you know this room is going to be hell on your reverse fear of heights. 08:07:57 ...compile-time unit testing 08:08:07 You stop in the room to consider your surroundings. As that hovering platform always been there? You realize Marge must have put it in. Why would she do that? The room was perfectly fine as it was, with the next story's rooms inaccessible. Why can't she understand your design sense? This is why you broke up. 08:11:02 The room must be forty hands tall. What the fuck? Why? A platform floats stilly above you and you spit at it. This is fucked. 08:11:13 Feel free to stop me when you've got what you need 08:11:47 I will tell you if any of it is seem OK for this purpose, but so far it doesn't 08:13:28 The main feature of the room is a platform hovering above you, about as high as the last room's ceiling. The bottom is spiked, with one main "stalactite" hanging down at last three hands. The spikes are colorfully festooned with party streamers and Christmas decorations. You assume that the force keeping them up must be the force keeping the platform itself airborne. 08:16:01 A platform hangs above, as ponderous as a pregnant person's breasts. It sways idly, lustily. You know you shall have to conquer it to proceed. 08:16:41 Still no good? Can I get some feedback? 08:16:51 Usually the hovering platform is *not* above; it is much closer to the ground so someone can stand on it. It will be above if someone else is using it though. 08:17:14 Why'd you start out by asking how to describe the bottom then? 08:17:37 Well, really I should describe both the bottom and the top, actually! 08:17:58 But, it is a MUD, so anyone can try to access it to view them; they are set "examinable" so anyone can view the program if you want to. 08:18:08 Frankly I feel you should have given more information if you expected me to be able to write clearly. 08:18:18 Well, not clearly, just appropriately. 08:18:19 Probably you are correct. 08:18:53 Does the player character have a dead relative? 08:19:24 zzo38: buying two eggs costs less than buying only one in a story by lewis carroll 08:19:26 There may be many characters, so maybe they don't have a dead relative; I don't know if they have a dead relative or not! 08:19:43 shachaf: Yes, I know, I have read about that too 08:19:50 If they have no dead relatives that implies a lot. 08:20:02 I mean, all living things in the real world have a dead relative. 08:20:40 O, then probably they do have some dead relative. (Except for unusual circumstances...) 08:20:48 I forgot. 08:21:11 What if they were created by magic, as in the Borges story, "The Circular Ruins"? 08:21:42 Bike: oh, wait, all these descriptions were unrelated? 08:21:48 i was reading this as one continuous story 08:22:04 death of the author and all, man. 08:22:08 and also i didn't read the beginning 08:22:13 i thought it was just spontaneous 08:22:19 i was wondering why 08:22:28 There is no beginning and no end. There is only you, the room, and the platform. 08:22:31 (that's another description) 08:23:39 The platform is about four hands on a side, a standard Tsblisi elevator model. You note that the secondary thrust has been vandalized by someone named Tina. 08:25:57 why is the symbol for bottom _|_ rather than (_|_)? 08:26:08 Because that looks like a butt. 08:26:14 yes! 08:26:30 You pause to examine the platform. You imagine it can be used to go to the higher level, but you have no interest in that right now. There is only Sandwich. 08:26:34 doesthiswork: It isn't supposed to be _|_ that is just the ASCII format of it. 08:27:12 ⊥ 08:27:48 A chorus of voices erupt. WELCOME TO THE PLATFORM ROOM, they say. YOU CAN USE THIS PLATFORM TO ASCEND AND DESCEND, BUT ONLY WITHIN THIS ROOM. You examine the platform and imagine that the voices are correct, but you wonder if that too isn't just a delusion brought on by the drug. 08:28:45 Since it's a MUD I imagine you'll have to have descriptions for lots of situations, like if a character has ingested a "drug" (actually a nanomachine cocktail, but they don't know that) to induce schizotypal behavior so that they can infiltrate the platform-building cult. 08:29:33 Or I mean, they could have taken the drug just for kicks. You can reuse the description. 08:29:52 This MUD does have recreational drugs, right? 08:29:56 The MUD isn't made up entirely by myself either, some some areas and items are. 08:30:18 And as far as I know there aren't any drugs, but I didn't see everything so maybe someone did make up such a thing in there too. 08:30:35 No harm in planning ahead, then. 08:30:45 Vis a vis #drugz. 08:32:46 You examine the platform, but you have no particular skill in discerning uses of objects. You guess that it's magical, since it's hovering a bit above the ground, but it's not marked or anything to indicate that. As you stare it jiggles invitingly. 08:34:43 Characters may have different skillsets, see. 08:36:05 Ah, OK. Yes maybe some characters might fly, too, in which case you don't need to use such a hovering platform. And some character might have a moldy scroll to teleport into someone else's location (only of the location they happen to be in has "jumpok" flag set, though). 08:36:35 So there can be other skillsets too 08:37:53 Sounds complicated. 08:40:15 You can't help but scoff at the platform. You remember when you were a trainee, and had to use these platforms to get around. They were so slow and always breaking down. You hop in the air a bit, just to mock the memory represented before you. 08:43:50 You consider the platform before you, and in return it considers you. Without asking you know that it is only a tool. Its awareness only extends as far as passengers and a concept of height. It can't even control that, you notice disdainfully. 08:44:17 That's for any characters with the psychic power of panpsychism who are also assholes. 08:45:01 Is there an asshole stat? 08:45:32 Anyone can make up whatever stats you want using the @field command, so such a thing is possible. 08:45:50 Very forward-thinking. 08:46:06 @field hugs 08:46:06 Unknown command, try @list 08:46:20 Is there a hugs field? 08:46:31 (However there is some exceptions, such as field names starting with a dot, and a few other fields don't work with it either, but most do.) 08:46:44 @field rationals 08:46:44 Unknown command, try @list 08:46:53 Bike: Again, it is possible to make one up; you can make up whatever field you want (with a few exceptions). 08:47:06 Well has someone alreayd made it up? 08:47:27 I don't think so, but I can't see everything! 08:47:27 i have 08:47:29 see above 08:48:02 You can write descriptions for a game you're not administrating? 08:48:34 Or have you just been wasting my time. 08:49:02 Bike: p. sure only one person here has been wasting your time 08:49:12 and it isn't zzo38 (or me) 08:49:28 obviously a hugs field isn't a waste of time. 08:49:36 @hug zzo38 08:49:37 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 08:49:41 zzo38: (do you like hugs) 08:50:05 Bike: Yes it is possible, in that MUD anyways it is possible. 08:50:50 zzo38: if i'm ever in vancouver can i hug you 08:50:52 HAVE YOU JUST BEEN WASTING MY TIME?! you angrily shout at the platform. IS THIS ALL A JOKE TO YOU? 08:50:54 Anyone with the 'builder' flag set on themself can create objects. Anyone who isn't guest can set fields and stuff on themself and anything they created. Also, everyone who isn't guests automatically has the 'builder' flag set anyways. 08:50:57 hugz 4ever 08:51:00 That's if you have a nethack-like hallucination effect. 08:51:05 shachaf: You can try, but I doubt it. 08:51:10 uh oh 08:51:20 You doubt hugs? 08:52:05 No, I mean I doubt you will be in the same place (even if it is the same city), and I might try to stop you anyways 08:52:18 So you don't like hugs? 08:52:23 Bike: if i'm ever in middle of nowhere, wa can i hug you 08:52:42 um, i guess. i'm pretty awkward. 08:54:03 did i mention that some russian people took my javascript gif player and added audio support using a custom audio block they added to gif 08:54:21 so now they have a file format for animated pictures along with audio 08:54:29 coo 08:54:35 p. innovative 08:56:06 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:57:45 i get so many .ru referers 08:57:50 but most of them are referer spam :' 08:57:51 ( 08:58:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:00:20 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:00:28 referer spam is terrible 09:00:51 do spammers have no honour 09:02:45 how does referer spam work 09:03:41 people make fake requests to your website using some referer 09:06:43 why tho 09:06:58 i guess because people look at their referers? 09:07:11 why don't they do something else with their time 09:07:29 isn't it exciting when people talk about you 09:07:37 is it 09:07:54 sometimes 09:08:17 i wanted to make a thing so i could watch people using my website in realtime 09:08:25 and open a chat box and so on 09:09:11 actually i have the feeling i wouldn't care to talk to most of my referals 09:09:14 -!- farrioth has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:30:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:33:09 -!- mauke has joined. 09:34:39 `relcome hauke 09:34:42 ​hauke: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 09:34:58 hmm, i'm too tired for this 09:36:24 ooh, shiny colors 09:36:32 `ello mauke 09:36:35 maukello 09:39:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:39:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 09:39:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:47:46 http://sprunge.us/DJbB stat-time 09:49:18 (For 201*, commands containing l, c, m in that order, some of the ones ending in : were probably replies.) 09:49:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:50:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:51:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 09:51:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:52:01 (relcome still has some catching up to do.) 09:52:34 -!- preflex has joined. 09:53:06 `tervetuloa fizzie 09:53:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tervetuloa: not found 09:53:10 help 09:53:18 fizzie: please fix thx 09:55:09 Anyway, lots are missing. 09:55:32 the german welcome in https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf has a comma that shouldn't be there 09:56:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:56:53 `? willkommen 09:56:55 Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen, besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.) 09:57:03 `run cat wisdom/willkommen 09:57:05 Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen, besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.) 09:57:28 ☝ can be fixed in HackEgo 09:57:48 Oh, even preflex is here. This is great. 09:58:57 preflex: help re 09:58:57 re "REGEX" STRING - test STRING against REGEX 09:59:02 ah 09:59:55 -!- tromp_ has joined. 10:00:29 preflex: re ".{.*}." asdf 10:00:29 match: [0-4: asdf] [0:1-3: sd] 10:00:44 nice, it still works 10:01:14 A multitude of bots. 10:01:28 fungot: Go ahead, say hello. 10:01:29 fizzie: and i think sicp or something. away, trying to focus on matters more relevant to making everything a set. now he wants it above the definition 10:02:31 preflex's re command uses the regex engine from ploki 10:03:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:05:20 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:08:30 `run welcome | hyphenate.fi # shachaf: close enough? 10:08:32 Wel-co-me to the in-ter-na-ti-o-nal hub for e-so-te-ric prog-ram-ming lan-gu-a-ge de-sign and dep-lo-y-ment! For mo-re in-for-ma-ti-on, check out our wi-ki: . (For the ot-her kind of e-so-te-ri-ca, try #e-so-te-ric on irc.dal.net.) 10:09:45 `run ls -l bin/hyfinate; cat bin/hyfinate 10:09:47 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 12 Sep 25 13:06 bin/hyfinate -> hyphenate.fi \ #!/bin/sh \ exec perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'my$vow=qr/[aeiouyäö]/i;my$con=qr/[b-df-hj-np-tv-xz]/i;1while s/($vow$con*)($con$vow)/$1-$2/g;1while s/a[eoyäö]|e[aoäö]|i[aoäö]|o[aeyäö]|u[aeyäö]|y[aeouä]|ä[aeouö]|ö[aeouä]/my@s=split"",$&;$s[0]."-".$s[1]/egi' 10:09:55 Not quite. 10:09:57 I assume prog ramming refers to the jousts. 10:10:09 -CS? bold move 10:14:08 #!/bin/sh \ exec perl 10:17:33 `run head -n 1 bin/* | grep -a '^#!' | sed -e 's/! /!/;s/ .*//' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr 10:17:35 ​ 64 #!/bin/sh \ 25 #!/bin/bash \ 13 #!/usr/bin/env \ 10 #!/usr/bin/perl \ 3 #!/usr/bin/python \ 2 #!/hackenv/bin/lua \ 1 #!/usr/bin/tail \ 1 #!/hackenv/bin/rec \ 1 #!/bin/true 10:17:53 /bin/true: best interpreter. 10:18:10 I like /bin/cat myself 10:18:33 every program a quine 10:18:39 Never complains, unlike those so-called programming languages tend to. 10:18:48 ploki never complains either 10:19:03 #!/bin/cat 10:19:11 internal cat error 10:19:57 `run grep bin/true bin/* 10:19:59 bin/listen:#!/bin/true 10:20:04 `cat bin/listen 10:20:05 ​#!/bin/true 10:23:54 `listen 10:23:55 No output. 10:24:09 `run echo ' ' 10:24:11 No output. 10:24:36 `run beep 10:24:37 bash: beep: command not found 10:26:12 `run echo $'\xe2\x81\xa3' 10:26:14 ​⁣ 10:30:50 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:31:57 hmm, advertising that "the GUI is themeable" is probably a strong negative signal on the quality of software 10:32:45 inb4 audio cock 10:40:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:57:21 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:59:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:23:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:31:09 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:31:59 -!- carado has joined. 11:39:04 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:39:38 -!- atriq has joined. 11:40:39 -!- carado has joined. 11:40:50 @messages? 11:40:50 Sorry, no messages today. 11:40:55 Wait, I'm atriq 11:40:57 -!- atriq has quit (Client Quit). 11:42:33 `wii shachaf 11:42:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wii: not found 11:42:37 oops 11:43:05 Wii Shachaf, the unannounced successor of Wii U. 11:43:32 (Everyone's going to want one.) 11:43:40 oerjan: oh, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ioun_Stone <-- i don't think burlew has paid attention to the shapes listed. 11:44:30 also, the colors are hard to determine. i guess blackwing snatched an orange one. 11:44:46 i somehow wouldn't think laurin the type to have a deep red one. 11:45:15 and exactly which green variant is that... 11:45:29 so maybe he's not paid much attention to the colors either. 11:45:29 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:47:07 * oerjan steps by the oots forum 11:47:43 * oerjan remembers he had food he was supposed to eat 11:48:27 fizzie: mistyped a / 11:56:51 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:00:03 -!- carado has joined. 12:01:59 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:02:23 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:03:58 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:05:23 -!- rodgort has joined. 12:26:24 -!- Chillectual has joined. 12:26:48 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 12:29:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:31:30 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:33:09 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1taral/why_do_theorems_in_complex_analysis_feels/ 12:33:23 cauchy's theorem op, plz nerf 12:37:10 -!- yorick has joined. 12:37:39 Also : Stokes theorem 12:44:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:48:06 Hello Alex 12:55:52 -!- boily has joined. 12:55:57 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:56:03 hoily 12:57:13 quinthellopia. 12:57:47 i should get up 12:57:55 * boily glares at quintopia 12:58:28 ~metar CYUL 12:58:29 CYUL 201250Z 03014KT 3SM -SN DRSN OVC040 M07/M09 A3002 RMK NS8 SLP169 12:59:33 ~metar MDPC 12:59:34 MDPC 201300Z 09012KT 9999 FEW019 27/22 Q1018 12:59:50 ahhhhh 13:00:30 ~metar EFHK 13:00:31 EFHK 201250Z 23009KT 9999 FEW014 03/02 Q1010 NOSIG 13:00:54 Somewhere in-between. 13:08:06 -!- CADD_ has joined. 13:08:44 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 13:16:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:18:59 -!- ^v has joined. 13:28:47 I want some snow already 13:28:51 ~metar ESSA 13:28:51 ESSA 201320Z 18012KT CAVOK 03/00 Q1009 R01L/29//95 R08/29//95 R01R/29//95 NOSIG 13:29:10 ~metar ENVA 13:29:12 ENVA 201320Z 09005KT CAVOK M01/M03 Q0999 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 16011KT 13:29:29 FireFly: we're undergoing our second snowstorm right now. 13:30:09 no snow forecast for christmas here 13:31:14 ~metar CYUL 13:31:15 CYUL 201324Z 03016KT 1SM R06L/P6000FT/D R06R/P6000FT/D -SN DRSN OVC020 M08/M09 A3002 RMK SN2NS6 SLP168 13:33:43 haha, TIL (from comp.lang.c) that the numeric constant "0" in C is in octal 13:33:59 I guess it doesn't really matter 13:34:02 but it's still funny 13:34:30 I guess that kind of makes sense 13:34:42 but... it doesn't change nothing! 13:41:43 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:41:59 -!- kmc has joined. 13:42:12 -!- atriq has joined. 13:42:55 -!- atriq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:48:25 `quoth 13:48:27 No output. 13:48:35 `quoth something 13:48:37 No output. 13:48:49 `quoth the Raven 13:48:51 No output. 13:48:55 bo. ring. 13:54:31 `cat bin/quoth 13:54:33 allquotes | grep -i "<$1>" | shuf | head -n 1 13:54:46 i'll grep you 13:54:51 `quoth boily 13:54:52 1097) I prefer goat memory. I feel it's more reliable, like a vinyl over a CD. 13:55:34 What a useless use of head. 13:55:47 Well goats are cute 13:57:05 `run sed -i -e 's/| head //' bin/quoth # gonna bork it up somehow... 13:57:08 No output. 13:57:12 `cat bin/quoth 13:57:13 allquotes | grep -i "<$1>" | shuf -n 1 13:57:24 Huh. 13:57:30 what the fungot was I thinking about when I mentioned “goat memory”... 13:57:30 boily: i just like the last one worked, at which point it is all pattern matching and generally the ppl good at that 13:58:09 Goat memory is all pattern matching, anyway. 13:58:24 Especially with tincans 14:20:09 boily: you need to implement a new language based on goat memory 14:21:01 lol. 14:21:44 also why do star trek wikis have entries for goat 14:21:53 I. Was just looking at that. 14:21:59 http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Goat 14:22:11 There are goats in the star trek universe 14:23:08 LinearInterpol: you really need to stop copying me 14:23:13 shush 14:23:30 http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jackal 14:23:32 :D 14:28:53 there's a "Jackal" entry on NetHackWiki too 14:29:20 although it redirects to "Canine" 14:29:23 Nethack does have jackals, though 14:29:25 because there's not enough to write about jackals on their own 14:29:26 Also, DF 14:30:06 http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Jackal ← an uncaninedirected roguewiki jackalian entry 14:30:24 Daw 14:31:07 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:45:57 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 15:02:53 dhelloesthiswork. mrhmoushello. 15:10:54 belloily 15:25:51 `unidecode 6 15:25:53 ​[U+0036 DIGIT SIX] 15:26:05 I thought so 15:26:08 why is my printf lying 15:26:19 !c printf("%c\n", 0x3f); 15:26:24 ​? 15:26:29 that's more believable 15:27:35 I just got the best exception message. 15:27:56 This is the entire message: The length of the parameter 'Ȁbit᨞䀀眀攀攀欀攀渀搀䠀漀甀爀猀ȀȂ؀戀椀琀툀Ỹ@eĂȀbitᐞ䀀洀椀挀爀漀猀椀琀攀ȀᘂЀÈ 15:30:09 woah. 15:30:46 I got it while calling DeriveParameters on a SqlCommand object (.NET code). 15:31:05 The best part - it only happens the _third_ time I call DeriveParameters. Consistently. 15:31:09 what's the command to tell gdb to reread a save file? 15:31:50 err, a source file 15:32:44 aha, using "directory" with a directory that's already there works 15:34:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:35:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:35:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: byeily). 15:40:20 `unicode 0x7f7f 15:40:22 Unknown character. 15:48:10 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:48:20 `unicode U+7f7f 15:48:21 Unknown character. 15:50:09 `unicode 罿 15:50:11 Unknown character. 15:50:32 (the joys of using rxvt-unicode! you can hold ctrl-shift, and type the codepoint) 15:50:45 `unidecode 罿 15:50:46 ​[U+7F7F CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-7F7F] 15:51:52 `unidecode 쫾몾 15:51:54 ​[U+CAFE HANGUL SYLLABLE JJWAELM] [U+BABE HANGUL SYLLABLE MOJ] 15:54:54 I guess `unicode should also accept code points (in flexible formats) addition to character names. 15:55:04 `unicode CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-7F7F 15:55:06 ​罿 15:55:12 boily: I typoed it in Emacs 15:55:21 and thought it looked pretty 15:58:04 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:58:23 neither nciku nor wwwjdic have any info on it. the first hit on google is a page in Chinese → http://www.zdic.net/z/21/js/7F7F.htm 15:58:54 oh! wiktionary has it → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%BD%BF 15:59:14 "Definition in English: net catch birds", says gucharmap 15:59:53 so, U+7F7F is the net result of the birds you caught after taxes and fees. 16:24:28 ​? 16:24:38 You're EgoBot, not EdBot, darn it. 16:27:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 16:28:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:00:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:01:29 -!- ^v has joined. 17:24:26 <`^_^v> hey guys, why do programmers always think christmas is halloween? 17:24:34 <`^_^v> because 31 oct = 25 dec 17:25:54 because programmers are 1) idiots and 2) notoriously bad at implemeting datetime to iso standards 17:26:03 i think only one person ever has managed it 17:29:47 that's the best comeback to that joke I've ever seen. 17:41:30 -!- ski has joined. 17:44:07 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:49:57 -!- conehead_ has joined. 17:50:05 Hm 17:50:12 Are there any simple stack based languages 17:50:14 like forth 17:50:16 but other than forth 17:50:20 Underload? 17:51:34 joy? 17:52:35 joy's not that simple 17:52:42 although it is very, very stack based 17:53:36 s k i combinators then 17:55:35 the wiki is full of such things 17:55:52 no, it's full of BF derivatives 17:55:58 there's a stack-based category, though, I think 17:56:59 ais523: stack-based BF derivatives! 17:57:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF-PDA ← there you go 17:57:30 although it's intentionally sub-TC 18:05:24 `relcome ski 18:05:27 ​ski: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:05:28 `relcome atrapado 18:05:30 ​atrapado: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:06:34 :) 18:07:59 -!- muskrat has joined. 18:08:40 (SKI-combinators is not stack based) 18:10:05 are there combinators for stack manipulation? 18:12:20 Kitten and Factor aren't very simple either 18:12:46 Befunge has stacks 18:14:09 boily, see underload 18:16:41 boily: highly relevant: http://tunes.org/~iepos/joy.html 18:18:14 Phantom_Hoover: indeed. 18:18:23 FireFly: veryndeed. 18:19:25 hey. unit is pure/return/unit/arr... 18:19:29 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:21:29 ski on SKI 18:21:31 * kmc waves 18:22:14 * boily observes kmc 18:28:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:39:52 nah 18:40:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:40:04 lo kmc 18:40:07 I'm looking for a with reasonable effort portable to the .NET plattform language 18:40:15 that has not already been ported to it 18:41:02 boily : you forgot `/eta/η' 18:41:10 (and `arr' is a bit different) 18:42:18 well. are is arr, fsvo arr. 18:42:36 there are three COBOL implementations for the JVM. mroman, your course is clear 18:47:44 Hells no 18:48:19 hells yes. 18:49:03 -!- Arufonsu has joined. 18:49:14 Hey, is it all right if I monologue about software interfacing? Okay, great. 18:49:31 no. 18:49:56 Arufonsu: I don't mind; see if someone does though after you write something other than just asking if it is OK or not 18:50:11 Currently, the lingua franca of computing is C. A library is portable across languages if you can write a C header file for it. 18:50:20 Arufonsu: I have no problem with that, as long as the rant is in French. 18:50:26 (also, hi!) 18:50:30 woo, C. 18:50:35 Well, I want it to be in English! 18:50:36 Yes, the lingua franca should probably be a better language COBOL 18:50:49 Bike: watch yer tongue, ye be speakin' forbidden phrases. 18:51:08 zzo38: Loi 101! 18:51:13 COBOL is the Windows ME of programming languages. 18:52:36 have you ever even seen a cobol program 18:52:49 I have. 18:53:04 I have even written a bit of COBOL. 18:54:15 if you assemble every capital letter ever written chronologically in all of the programming languages, they form the Ultimate Transformer Cobol Program! 18:54:36 hah! 18:54:59 Writing a C header file isn't enough; also you should have the programs to work between the different programming languages as necessary. For example to allow a function from some other library to work in SQL (specifically, SQLite), you still need to write a C code to load the SQL functions and translate the data types into those used by the function and used in SQL databases. 18:55:14 https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/1ca57f7a260c72d36d96 just look at this elegance 18:55:16 correct. 18:55:37 Bike: that's horrifying. 18:56:12 zzo38: SQLite isn't a programming language, though. I don't think SQLite itself provides a means to import foreign functions, does it? 18:56:20 horrifying with no advancing 18:56:21 * boily mapleach himself. 18:56:31 Arufonsu: last I checked, no. 18:56:39 Arufonsu: It does, although you have to write the importing in a C code, not in a SQL code. And, SQL is a programming language. 18:57:17 zzo38: writing a C header file is usually enough for other languages. 18:57:31 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:57:34 perl, python, etc. 18:57:40 what surprises me is that github has COBOL highlighting, but not cabal highlighting. 18:58:06 In Haskell at least, you need to also write the Haskell code to deal with it, although you don't need to write another C code. 18:58:08 COWSEL looks ok 18:59:19 zzo38: that's how it is in other languages too, and they each have varying degrees of layering between you and the header file. 18:59:26 but it looks like it's difficult to get any documentation about it 18:59:30 perl for example can use raw header files. 18:59:41 Anyway, thing is, a C header file pretty much describes ways bytes can go each direction. But with many if not most programming languages, objects can't just be turned into bytes and back, since the runtime environment keeps track of object metadata. 19:01:41 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 19:01:48 wat. 19:01:59 your context has been lost. 19:02:40 Arufonsu: Yes, although they may have data structures that have pointers to keep track of, and may need the code to tell it how to do. 19:02:51 Like, suppose you have a Haskell function String -> String. If you want C code to be able to access it, could you just give the C code a pointer to the function and provide it a way to call the function? 19:03:16 Not really, because then you never know when the C code is done using the function, so you don't know when to garbage collect it. 19:05:00 Yes, dealing with callbacks like that can be difficult due to those reasons you specify. 19:07:13 I think the One True Model of computing is an actor model, where there are a bunch of objects, and objects can perform actions, and objects are only ever created or deleted manually. 19:08:23 Conceptually, perhaps every object in a Haskell system implements the GarbageCollectableObject interface, and the garbage collector has a reference to every single one of those objects. 19:09:34 the one true model of computing is an agent system. 19:09:34 obv. 19:09:39 Yeah. That. 19:09:43 Some things that use callbacks can also be done without callbacks in whatever way work for the programming language in use, or using a different kinds of callbacks. 19:09:47 Actor, agent, same cotton candy. 19:10:20 no 19:10:27 actor != agent. 19:10:54 *shrug* I don't know what the difference is, and I don't know which one I mean. 19:11:19 an actor model and an agent model specify opposite approaches. 19:11:37 an actor model is essentially a message passing system. 19:12:21 being passive, it's only active once there is data flowing in. 19:12:38 So if you want to access some Haskell object from C, you could just access it directly, but it might vanish at any time. Instead, I suppose you'd want to create a GarbageCollectableObject yourself, informing the garbage collector of its existence, and telling the garbage collector it has a reference to the object you're interested in. 19:13:26 So what's an agent model, then? 19:13:59 In a Haskell code you could create a context (perhaps using a monad) that contains the data and things you need, might be one possibility 19:15:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:16:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:17:33 Looks like agents are a lot like system processes. 19:17:42 correct. 19:17:46 They can run spontaneously and access globally-named resources. 19:17:50 yes. 19:17:53 But whether you want enumerations, events, etc you may want different ways in a different programming language. For example in SQL, if you want the function to make a list of results, you can define a virtual table to do that, perhaps. 19:18:09 they're effectively separate processing units. 19:18:14 acting continuously on an environment. 19:18:29 that can take input and give output from and to the environment. 19:19:04 meanwhile, happy tune → http://protodome.bandcamp.com/track/oh-i-feel-just-fine-because-im-making-macaroni 19:19:28 Yeah, my gut reaction is to say I like the actor model better. 19:19:37 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ActorVsAgent 19:21:52 Now, it seems like there's pretty much a certain, specific set of extra stuff that runtime environments might give to objects. 19:23:18 Garbage collection is the main one. If you had an OS where all the objects on the system use a single garbage collector, then runtime environments wouldn't need to worry about that, and you could freely pass references between environments without worrying about garbage collection. 19:33:53 I think I once made a list of fancy features that environments have. Along these lines: garbage collection, concurrency, access control, persistence. 19:34:35 I noted that no system seems to have all of them. Lua has garbage collection and access control, but not concurrency or persistence. Lua is one of the few environments that has access control. 19:34:50 Smalltalk has garbage collection, concurrency, and persistence, but not access control. Smalltalk is one of the few environments that has persistence. 19:35:10 I guess Unix itself has concurrency, access control, and persistence. But it doesn't have any kind of system-wide garbage collection. 19:36:08 lots of things have system-wide refcounting though 19:37:01 the Linux kernel has a garbage collector to deal with sending UNIX sockets through other UNIX sockets 19:39:28 Huh. 19:40:06 I didn't think sending sockets through sockets was a thing 19:40:16 Now, using Unix domain sockets, can a more privileged process send a file handle or whatever to a less privileged process, thereby allowing the less privileged process to access a file it wouldn't normally be able to? 19:43:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:46:35 Arufonsu: believe so, yes 19:46:41 this lets you do capability-like things 19:46:59 FreeFull: you can send any file descriptor through a socket 19:47:56 you can also send a struct with your uid and gid in such a way that it can't be forged 19:48:12 so this allows a more-privileged daemon to authenticate requests from less-privileged users and then do things on their behalf 19:48:44 a friend of mine argued convincingly that all setuid programs should be replaced with such daemons 19:50:49 You can also use something like linux's more advanced permissions 19:59:51 -!- conehead_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:09:47 Now, with Linux, if I want a bunch of processes that can't interact with each other or anything that isn't world-accessible, can I just give them all UIDs that are otherwise unused? 20:12:34 they can still interact in lots of ways 20:23:16 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:28:24 Yeah, true, but they can't damage each other, right? 20:28:32 Except by using up lots of system resources or something, maybe... 20:28:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:28:46 or exploiting security holes in each other or the kernel 20:30:10 Exploiting holes in each other shouldn't be possible if they have no access to each other whatsoever 20:30:16 Kernel, maybe 20:30:29 but that's my point, processes have lots of access to each otehr 20:30:47 for example they share a filesystem, a network subsystem, etc 20:31:14 if you want to strongly isolate things then you need stuff like cgroups and the various namespaces (pid, network, mount, etc.) 20:44:13 -!- Sorella has joined. 20:44:25 Are you saying there are different pid namespaces? 20:44:33 Sorhello 20:44:44 in Linux? yes, it has all kinds of namespace stuff http://lwn.net/Articles/531114/ 20:44:53 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 20:44:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 20:47:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:48:43 Dang. Namespaces look really cool. 20:52:24 And then it looks like LXC is an application that actually uses them to provide a virtual Linux environment within another Linux environment. Is that right? 20:53:14 Whelp, I like the E programming language. 20:53:37 Arufonsu: i believe so 20:53:48 It has access control and concurrency. You figure it probably has garbage collection, right? And I feel like it's likely to have persistence as well. 20:56:31 LXC is one such application; there are more. 20:59:07 -!- augur has joined. 21:01:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:03:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:06:35 ~metar CYUL 21:06:36 CYUL 202024Z 03010G15KT 3/4SM R06L/5000VP6000FT/D R06R/6000FT/D -SN VV006 M07/M09 A2997 RMK SN8 SLP150 21:06:49 oh, VV! haven't seen that on since last winter :D 21:07:13 ~metar EGNT 21:07:13 EGNT 202050Z 21021G38KT 180V240 9999 -RA SCT015 BKN020 10/07 Q1000 21:07:27 I still can't read it but I like looking at it 21:07:42 ~metar KGRR 21:07:42 KGRR 202053Z 07007KT 3SM -FZRA BR OVC007 01/M01 A2976 RMK AO2 SLP084 P0000 60007 T00061011 56006 $ 21:07:59 Yup, I don't know what that means. 21:08:00 Arufonsu: michigan? 21:08:04 boily: yeah. 21:08:56 Arufonsu: your weather says: report issued at 8:53pm UTC today, 7 knot east-north-east winds, ground visibility 3 mi, light freezing rain, fog... 21:09:13 01/M01? So the temperature is 1 C and the frost point is -1 C? 21:09:21 s/frost/dew/ 21:09:51 Aren't they pretty much the same thing, except frost is frozen and dew isn't? 21:10:34 they're surface water. 21:11:08 also, your station needs maintenance (the “$” at the end) 21:11:20 boily, what does mine say? 21:11:55 I'd better go tell them. 21:12:44 So what's the significance of the dew point below freezing? 21:13:01 Taneb: report at 8:50pm UTC, quite a lot of wind (21 knots, gusts at 38 knots) from the southwest, ground visibility OK, light rain, scattered clouds at 1500', broken clouds at 2000', 10 °C, dew point at 7 °C, QNH at 1000 hPa. 21:13:32 Arufonsu: it's... below freezing, I guess. I think I'll have to research more details about dew point. 21:14:15 Yeah, but surely no dew is going to form if it's below freezing. 21:14:49 probably «givre», then. 21:14:59 also, “If the dew point is below freezing (32°F or 0°C), we instead use the term frost point.” ← http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/dewpoint.htm 21:15:49 “there is nothing special about the temperature being below freezong or below zero... solid ice (frost) rather than as liquid water” ← http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/wea00/wea00061.htm 21:29:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STORM CHICKEN). 21:30:00 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:32:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:37:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:41:30 18:21:31:* kmc waves 21:41:31 18:22:14:* boily observes kmc 21:41:38 kmc: so, do you feel particularly collapsed? 21:42:34 oh i get it 21:43:20 -!- muskrat has joined. 21:47:18 wavefunctions have stagefright, so when they're observed, they just collapse like babies. 21:48:21 i don't know what you're doing to them, LinearInterpol, but i don't think babies usually collapse. 21:48:37 oerjan: I'm a bad parent. 21:48:41 Indeed, they usually expand. 21:48:44 oerjan: have you observed them 21:48:45 Albeit slowly. 21:48:53 shachaf: it has happened. 21:49:47 babies look so much like humans 21:49:48 it's weird 21:50:48 mauke: did you ever fix willkommen 21:52:06 It's almost as if they *were* humans 21:56:07 FireFly: i think they are like pokemons that can evolve into humans. 21:56:21 shachaf: how? 21:56:33 `? willkommen 21:56:36 Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen, besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.) 21:56:40 Presumably `run sed -i '...' wisdom/willkommen # or something 21:56:47 I don't know sed 21:56:53 perl? 21:57:00 well there is only one comma is there. 21:57:01 `run perl -v 21:57:03 ​ \ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 61 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documenta 21:57:08 ancient 21:57:17 `run sed -i 's/,//' wisdom/willkommen 21:57:21 No output. 21:57:24 `? willkommen 21:57:26 Willkommen beim internationalen Zentrum für das Design und die Implementierung esoterischer Programmiersprachen! Für weitere Informationen besuchen Sie das Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Für andere Arten der Esoterik gibt es #esoteric auf irc.dal.net.) 21:57:28 Better? 21:57:44 `run perl -e 'BEGIN{%::=()}' 21:57:45 Segmentation fault 21:57:58 that's p. good 21:58:08 is that a monkey 21:58:10 `run perl -e 'fork while fork' 21:58:16 No output. 21:58:20 `thanks oerjan 21:58:21 Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan. 21:58:23 `run perl -e '420 fork everyday' 21:58:25 Bareword found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "fork everyday" \ (Do you need to predeclare fork?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, near "420 fork" \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 21:58:28 fork erryday. 21:58:41 360 segfault. 21:58:51 `run perl -e '%::=()' 21:58:52 No output. 21:58:54 * oerjan reminds everyone of the `perl-e command 21:58:59 perle 21:59:04 `perl . 21:59:06 No output. 21:59:25 `perl-e print "Yo!" 21:59:27 Yo! 21:59:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:59:45 `perl-E say 2 21:59:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: perl-E: not found 21:59:52 terrible 22:00:06 `run ping google.com 22:00:06 `run cat bin/perl-e 22:00:07 pong 22:00:07 ​#!/bin/bash \ \ perl -e "$@" 22:00:43 `run sed -i '2d' bin/perl-e 22:00:47 No output. 22:00:53 `run cat bin/perl-e 22:00:55 ​#!/bin/bash \ perl -e "$@" 22:01:08 `perl-e is this all one argument? 22:01:10 syntax error at -e line 1, at EOF \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 22:01:35 mauke: that's the idea. 22:01:55 `help 22:01:55 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 22:02:32 `gcc --version 22:02:33 gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 22:03:04 `fetch http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/ploki/ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 22:03:08 2013-12-20 22:03:07 URL:http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/ploki/ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 [77308/77308] -> "ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2" [1] 22:03:19 `cat ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 22:03:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:03:20 BZh91AY&SY;|Rz%&u'o0 \ a|=̍A{s.....>Hm`>:.c^=="Z.mZW{Cǣ(1..w>ӆUݾJ 22:03:29 yeah 22:04:02 `tar xfj ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 22:04:03 tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. 22:04:17 `tar xjf ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 22:04:18 tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. 22:04:21 :-( 22:04:34 `run tar xjf ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 22:04:38 No output. 22:05:26 Does that work in some version of tar? 22:06:18 `run cd ploki-0.6.5.1 && gcc -O2 -o ploki *.c -lm 22:06:19 bash: line 0: cd: ploki-0.6.5.1: No such file or directory 22:06:46 `run cd ploki && gcc -O2 -o ploki *.c -lm 22:07:17 No output. 22:07:33 `echo No output. 22:07:35 No output. 22:07:37 `run cp ploki/ploki bin/ 22:07:38 cp: cannot stat `ploki/ploki': No such file or directory 22:07:43 heh 22:08:20 I think compilation failed. 22:09:02 f is old? 22:09:32 like, mesozoic 22:09:52 `ls ploki 22:09:55 atechit.c \ atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ atechit.o \ Compile \ compile.c \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ compile.o \ config.h \ deparse.c \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ deparse.o \ doc \ examples \ expr.c \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ expr.o \ GNUmakefile \ hang.c \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hang.o \ hash.c \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ hash.o \ IGNORE \ inc.c \ 22:10:38 `run ls ploki | tail 22:10:53 version.c \ version.c.in \ version.depend \ version.h \ xmalloc.c \ xmalloc.depend \ xmalloc.h \ zz.c \ zz.depend \ zz.h 22:11:06 `run ls ploki | grep -v '\.c' 22:11:11 atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ atechit.o \ Compile \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ compile.o \ config.h \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ deparse.o \ doc \ examples \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ expr.o \ GNUmakefile \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hang.o \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ hash.o \ IGNORE \ inc.depend \ inc.h \ inc.o \ indent \ IO.depend \ IO.h \ IO.o \ kork.d 22:11:22 `run ls ploki | grep -v '\.[cho]' 22:11:24 atechit.depend \ Compile \ compile.depend \ deparse.depend \ doc \ examples \ expr.depend \ GNUmakefile \ hang.depend \ hash.depend \ IGNORE \ inc.depend \ indent \ IO.depend \ kork.depend \ list.depend \ main.depend \ Makefile \ MakeSkel \ mars.depend \ match.depend \ op.depend \ opt.depend \ parse.depend \ ploki \ pp.depend \ random.depend \ READ 22:11:26 `run cp ploki/ploki bin/ 22:11:30 No output. 22:11:58 `run ploki -MO=Deparse /dev/null 22:11:59 No output. 22:12:20 well then 22:12:52 oh you ran make in privmsg 22:12:57 `run echo $'"Hello, world!' | ploki 22:12:59 Hello, world! 22:14:30 mauke: is that working? 22:14:44 `run echo $'@REVERSE(\\ARG:3\'\\ARG:`\\ARG:2)_"' | ploki - 10 2 3.141593 22:14:45 No output. 22:15:18 `run echo $'@REVERSE(\\ARG:3\'\\ARG:1`\\ARG:2)_"' | ploki - 10 2 3.141593 22:15:19 11.001001000011111101110000010110000101011110101111 22:15:22 oerjan: yes 22:15:27 good. 22:15:46 `run cd ploki; make clean; cd ..; mv ploki src 22:15:50 rm -f *.o ploki \ mv: cannot move `ploki' to `src/ploki': Directory not empty 22:15:57 wat 22:16:33 `ls src/ploki 22:16:35 doc \ examples \ indent \ syntax \ t \ try 22:16:43 `ls ploki 22:16:45 atechit.c \ atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ Compile \ compile.c \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ config.h \ deparse.c \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ doc \ examples \ expr.c \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ GNUmakefile \ hang.c \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hash.c \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ IGNORE \ inc.c \ inc.depend \ inc.h \ indent \ IO.c \ IO.depend \ IO.h \ kork.c 22:17:45 `run ls ploki | grep -v '\.([ch]|depend)' 22:17:48 atechit.c \ atechit.depend \ atechit.h \ Compile \ compile.c \ compile.depend \ compile.h \ config.h \ deparse.c \ deparse.depend \ deparse.h \ doc \ examples \ expr.c \ expr.depend \ expr.h \ GNUmakefile \ hang.c \ hang.depend \ hang.h \ hash.c \ hash.depend \ hash.h \ IGNORE \ inc.c \ inc.depend \ inc.h \ indent \ IO.c \ IO.depend \ IO.h \ kork.c 22:17:55 wat 22:18:03 egrep 22:18:08 `run ls ploki | egrep -v '\.([ch]|depend)' 22:18:10 Compile \ doc \ examples \ GNUmakefile \ IGNORE \ indent \ Makefile \ MakeSkel \ README \ syntax \ t \ tags \ TODO \ try \ VERSION 22:18:19 ok it's all there 22:18:46 `run rm -rf src/ploki; mv ploki src 22:18:50 No output. 22:19:59 i assume this is a newer version than what was there before. 22:22:55 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:33:14 -!- tertu has joined. 22:42:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:43:50 * oerjan has an evil idea about something google should do 22:44:04 decreasing pagerank based on outgoing links to spam sites 22:44:14 perhaps they already do. 22:45:12 because then, people might actually start cleaning up the spam in their blogs. 22:45:27 22:47:28 Good idea 22:47:53 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:50:20 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:05:32 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/us-usa-security-rsa-idUSBRE9BJ1C220131220 23:07:31 the big news is that now everyone knows their price, and it was embarassingly low :) i would have held out for like $200M and a pound of cocaine 23:08:13 oerjan: http://www.theawl.com/2013/12/the-new-spammer-panic 23:09:54 how much does a pound of cocaine even go for 23:09:57 a lot 23:10:04 i don't know Bike i don't buy or sell cocaine 23:10:11 what do you do with it then 23:10:13 idea: update to Merchant of Venice 23:10:16 la cocaína no es buena para su salud 23:10:18 "flesh" is street talk 23:10:40 is this like that "Romeo+Juliet" movie where they all had Sword brand guns 23:10:45 basically yeah 23:11:06 shachaf: give it out at halloween instead of candy? 23:13:57 bob for cocaine 23:14:08 is cocaine soluble? i know so little about cocaine, i'm realizing 23:15:43 do you know about caine 23:15:57 i have all of avenged sevenfold's albums 23:16:30 seven alba? 23:17:40 Wikipedia tells me that the solubility of cocaine hydrochloride in water is 1800-2500 mg/ml at 20 degrees C. 23:18:29 huh. 23:18:33 "like sugar water" 23:18:47 The non-salt base form is not soluble in water. 23:19:02 so, what, gotta dunk it in hcl first? 23:20:51 yes 23:22:29 ifMUD now is stopped working again; probably because I accidentally made up a infinite loop. 23:23:11 this prbably wouldn't get you high, huh. well, i guess you win some you lose some 23:25:13 that's p. soluble 23:25:23 oerjan: oh, wait, that article isn't actually what you said 23:25:44 oerjan: but you might get some sort of schadenfreude out of it anyway 23:27:15 so i do 23:28:10 although that almost looks like an argument _not_ to remove spam comments. 23:29:05 well, the important bit is presumably preventing them from even being created in the future 23:29:56 also maybe i should be careful talking about this sort of thing 23:30:07 disclaimer, i know nothing about any of this 23:30:12 "[...] after which catamorphisms are sometimes referred to as bananas, as mentioned in Meijer 1991." good 23:30:21 imo all of category theory is bananas 23:30:28 ++ 23:30:55 that's barbed wire right 23:34:38 shachaf: hm actually it is slightly about what i said, further in 23:35:53 http://bitcoinity.org/markets 23:35:59 god the april crash looks so puny now 23:36:17 is the crash still ongoing 23:36:49 yeah people are rushing to convert their savings to dogecoin 23:36:57 copumpkin knows 23:37:03 * oerjan swats kmc -----### 23:37:24 http://neurotree.org/neurotree/clusters.php oh good, i found a map like the Erdős ones 23:37:29 how wonderfully incomprehensible 23:37:47 "change: +12870.94%" 23:37:56 "the first currency to be based upon an Internet meme" -- wp 23:38:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:38:33 looks like it's up from 2.5 days ago 23:38:34 i bet bitcoin itself is based on a bunch of things you could call "internet" "memes" if you were being really pedantic about it 23:39:10 -!- Arufonsu has changed nick to tswett. 23:39:15 i bet i could call you a nerd, nerd 23:39:23 although falling again today 23:39:28 Bike: why do you do that thing 23:40:37 should i buy some bitcoins 23:41:21 wait in the last three days its value has varied threefold 23:41:25 aren't they like five hundred a pop 23:42:03 600 currently 23:42:12 fine "should i buy part of a bitcoin" 23:42:14 it'll be 500 before long 23:43:00 one day a bitcoin will be worth more than a share of BRK.A 23:43:09 bitcoins are a knife aimed at the heart of america, or rather aimed at some of the arteries that are actually kind of nice 23:43:20 like that one in the ankle 23:43:53 I seem to have decided that it would be worthwhile to play VIM Adventures 23:43:55 ... 23:43:57 help 23:43:59 Quassel is being dump 23:44:06 you're far beyond he- oh. 23:44:07 "Pete: For this style of attack though Red would have advocated Ferlinghetti's Axis which - / Todd: Yeah, yeah. Maximizes damage to the vein. You think I don't know this stuff?" 23:44:15 Maybe vim isn't a good idea for me, I kind of type in an esoteric way 23:44:33 #esoteric should have a zillion subchannels 23:44:36 i'd like to hear more about peercoin though, it sounds reasonably sane 23:46:24 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01142005 yeah 23:46:27 amused that every cryptocurrency on wikipedia has a link to "Anarchism portal" at the bottom 23:47:07 because anachists are alllll about currency 23:54:02 shachaf: yeah, I'm a huge dogecoin tycoon 23:54:17 when are you launching pumpkincoin? 23:54:25 pumpkinin 23:54:30 or copumpkincoin 23:54:37 or copumpkinin? 23:54:40 What should be the length of a .MOD instrument if I want it to be tuned correctly? 23:54:45 coincopumpkin surely 23:54:51 zzo38: 2.5 meters 23:54:57 copumpkin coin co. 23:55:06 anyway why is dogecoin interesting 23:55:28 kmc: No, I mean in bytes 23:55:30 i thought it was uninteresting 23:55:46 it's a scrypt-based coin with a faster blockrate than litecoin 23:55:47 shrug 23:56:00 and dogs 23:56:10 -!- ^v has joined. 23:56:13 oh 23:56:42 *doges 23:56:45 shibe 23:56:49 such wow 23:56:51 there are people in /r/bitcoin who seriously think bitcoin was bringing freedom to china 23:56:57 such turing 23:57:02 so currency 23:57:03 wow 23:57:15 Phantom_Hoover: "there are people in /r/bitcoin who seriously think??" 23:57:19 on some level you have to feel sorry for them 23:57:27 so i found out it's kind of hard to research people without wikipedia articles (so that i can write a wikipedia article) 23:57:38 comparatively, at least. google makes everything seem so easy 23:58:42 i think i'll just completely make up a year, put citation needed on it, and call it good 23:58:58 i also love how such people kind of brush off the price fluctuations as being the fault of speculators as if that isn't a huge problem in and of itself 23:59:11 haha 23:59:14 speculators gonna speculate 23:59:36 "look it would work fine if it wasn't for capitalism" 23:59:40 Phantom_Hoover: I wonder if those people realize that USD/EUR also has speculators 23:59:43 hahahaha 23:59:54 capitalism does have a habit of messing with theories 2013-12-21: 00:00:19 INVISIBLE HAND WITH RAISED MIDDLE FINGER 00:03:01 Phantom_Hoover: do you think there's a reason China is cracking down on Bitcoin, other than to preserve capital controls? 00:03:52 why would i know! capital controls seems like an adequate enough reason though 00:04:07 well then I think it's fair to say they are bringing a certain narrow kind of "freedom" to china 00:04:22 not political freedom certainly 00:05:09 wouldn't it be neat if the government came out with Bitcoin with Chinese Characteristics 00:05:10 oh, you were replying to that 00:05:48 which is yuan with pictures of circuit boards taped to them 00:07:11 http://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1t5fo1/to_the_omg_bitcoin_is_dead_people_jesus_christ/ce4uwjh 00:07:15 all according to keikaku 00:07:19 "This collaboration between the crowdsourcing website Quirky and industrial giant GE (GE, Fortune 500) wirelessly connects to your mobile device to track the number of eggs you have and tell you when they're going bad." $70 00:08:17 Phantom_Hoover: lol 00:08:32 kmc: is that a cite of fortune 500 or, what's going on there 00:09:16 it's a link to stock shit 00:09:51 oh. i was wondering if they expected name recognition for Quirky but not GE, or what 00:10:00 lol 00:11:26 -!- muskrat has joined. 00:12:25 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 00:13:53 -!- muskrat has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:14:04 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 00:17:36 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Dogecoinwallet.jpg/800px-Dogecoinwallet.jpg oh, i see. 00:33:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:54:25 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:07:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:20:51 -!- augur has joined. 01:22:31 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:22:32 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:17 Bike: wow, much money, such coin 02:10:42 thank 02:11:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:11:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:13:27 elliott: guess who's back 02:14:23 the answer is http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1tb9qa/haskell_for_all_lift_error_handling_with_lenslike/ce6ap5x 02:15:23 is this pro haskell? that's beaut 02:15:25 iful 02:28:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh). 02:31:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:32:57 -!- Bike has joined. 02:50:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:52:26 -!- Bike has joined. 02:58:35 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:15:49 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 03:24:17 well i managed to buy 75 bitcents after considerable amounts of banging my head against a technological wall 03:24:45 can you believe the only mobile browser that coinbase works in is opera mini? 03:24:47 wtf 03:24:57 their app doesn't even work 03:25:24 wouldn't that cost like four hundred dollars 03:25:36 just under 500 03:26:11 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:27:09 i'm hoping i can start using btc the way i usually use paypal. the idea of taking payments for things in btc appeals to me somehow. 03:27:44 wait you bought $500 of bitcoins 03:27:52 in the middle of an ongoing market crash 03:28:22 Phantom_Hoover: the market's been somewhat stable for at least a day now. 03:28:55 sure it's a gamble, but it's better than the lottery 03:28:59 oh well in that case it's safe to start pouring cash into it! 03:29:23 robbing an IKEA also has better chances of success than the lottery 03:29:52 Phantom_Hoover: eh it's less than a week of work and i don't have many expenses right now. i'm in a position to gamble. 03:29:58 "stable for a day" 03:30:02 also you call a 20% fluctuation in price 'stable'? 03:30:21 Phantom_Hoover: that's fairly stable for btc :) 03:30:34 that's the joke 03:30:43 a veritable fusillade of facepalm 03:30:47 but no it hasn't been fluctuating that much 03:30:56 only 5% or so today 03:31:11 high: 0.774, low: 0.621 03:31:16 yeah that's more than five percent 03:31:40 you think you can get a variance from extrema? 03:31:46 it's less than twenty but i am a) eyeballing the figures and b) not spending cash based on them 03:32:18 it's been between 680 and 720 for 90% of the day 03:32:19 "The ICE dollar index DXY -0.12% , a measure of the U.S. unit against six other currencies, fell to 80.824 from 80.986 late Thursday, for a weekly loss of 0.6%." 03:32:22 this got into the news 03:33:23 Phantom_Hoover: do what you want. i don't gamble in casinos, but i could. btc gambling seemed like it'd be more fun :) 03:33:39 quintopia, it was stable enough on december 15; there was a crash on december 18 03:33:57 Phantom_Hoover: that crash predicated my purchase. 03:34:38 bloody hell, i can see why they call it the dunning-krugerrand 03:34:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:34:48 it looked like the china-ban-related crashing was done. so i bought. 03:35:31 rip ph 03:36:46 hi bike. do you think i'm crazy or do you think coinbase is crazy for working on so few browsers? 03:37:19 aiming for wider support than opera seems sensible enough 03:39:42 even in opera it only works jerkily and painfully 03:40:04 no idea how a company could fail so hard 04:01:03 so is there a "because" combinator? 04:07:02 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:14:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:19:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:21:04 -!- Bike has joined. 04:29:09 Do you know if there are format for instrument files to use with .MOD that have a transpose value built-in too? 04:52:49 i don't 04:53:46 wish there were enough of a bitcoin options market to compute implied volatility 04:53:55 that'd be neat 04:55:12 -!- mauke_ has joined. 04:55:13 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:56:36 fungot: sing me a song 04:56:36 kmc: if that is deserved though). i don't care about its value; i care about anything 04:56:47 fungot: you would do anything for love but you won't do that? 04:56:48 kmc: eval ( begin ( task1) ( task2))) is ( 0 3) 1 04:57:06 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:00:47 -!- mauke_ has changed nick to mauke. 05:09:25 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:32:04 In this rotating temple (which, for some reason, is built right on top of an apartment???), one of the rooms contains a statue, having a description of two sentences. The first one was there before, and the second one I added today. Is it better now? "This is a large statue of something having a lot of eyes, mouths, tentacles, hands, claws, teeth, and stuff that nobody understands, all in the sideways and wrong order. Strangely enough, it appears 05:32:10 Did this message get cut off? 05:32:19 kmc: thing me a thong 05:32:22 Is the second sentence better than the first one? 05:32:23 strangely enough, it appears 05:32:25 þ 05:32:28 :þ 05:32:33 Strangely enough, it appears that even being turned 360 degrees, it is different than it was before; 720 degrees makes it the same, though." 05:33:15 lol 05:33:25 is this for you d&d campaign? 05:33:34 No, it is for ifMUD. 05:33:52 Although it could be used in D&D campaign too, perhaps. 05:34:08 oh a mud. that was going to be my second guess 05:34:59 But is it better now like this? 05:36:16 yes 05:37:08 even though the added sentence is pretty much nonsense 05:37:28 well maybe not 05:38:26 would it be equivalent to say "after rotating one full turn, it does not appear the same as before, but after two full turns, it does"? 05:38:49 quintopia: Yes, that is equivalent, it is what I meant. 05:39:50 so the thing changes as you rotate it. neat. 05:40:00 maybe i could build a statue like that 05:59:19 every time you read a LWN article and the first comment is spender railing about how everyone is an idiot, take a shot 06:15:20 LWN? 06:15:30 http://lwn.net/ 06:28:03 http://lwn.net/Articles/576785/ 06:29:14 yeah i was reminded of this game by http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/577432/4c0c4ca28678daa8/ 06:29:47 wow. 06:39:59 "It is already trivially circumvented via a single function usable by any other exploit, present in enlightenment:" 06:40:02 What's that about? 06:41:01 Oh 06:41:02 "Spender's code shows that it's actually easy to look for signs of fixes in the kernel image before trying any exploit, thus defeating the detection scheme. " 06:43:35 "enlightenment" is his framework for writing exploits 06:44:00 here i was thinking it was the window manager (not sarcasm) 06:45:11 lol 06:58:54 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:09:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:22:15 want to buy hugcoins 07:22:25 they're based on proof-of-hug 08:45:50 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:52:35 Do you have to prove that the hug was consensual? 09:06:41 trypꙮphobia 09:09:57 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:11:17 Is logical implication ever used in programming? 09:11:32 It seems to always be the symmetric logical operators that get in 09:14:09 Prolog does apparently, which makes sense 09:14:19 slereah: → in many type systems is isomorphic to logical implication. 09:14:48 Namely, in all type systems that are isomorphic to constructive logic 09:15:00 How many are, though 09:15:36 I think Idris, Coq and Agda might have type systems like that 09:15:57 I don't know any of them! 09:17:50 -> in Haskell is isomorphic to logical implication. 09:29:04 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:33:51 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:36:05 -!- carado has joined. 09:42:44 I think Haskell's type system isn't fully turing complete without extensions 09:47:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:08:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:50:14 @tell quintopia so the thing changes as you rotate it. neat. <-- maybe zzo38 was inspired by fermion physics. 10:50:14 Consider it noted. 10:53:24 I think electrons are like that 10:56:48 yes, electrons are fermions. 10:56:59 also protons and neutrons. 11:00:58 Yeah 11:01:15 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:02:59 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:05:58 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:10:38 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:00:51 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 12:16:14 -!- yorick has joined. 12:24:49 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:38:35 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 12:40:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 12:40:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:47:55 -!- augur has joined. 13:00:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:20:46 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 13:32:02 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit. 13:32:21 "Woodcutter Simulator 2013 allows the player to control and operate an entire lumber mill. From clearing woods to the evacuation of the logs, the player has to undertake all arising tasks to complete numerous missions – from cutting trees for demanding customers to producing woodchips for heating purposes." 13:32:29 The whole sim game genre is kinda weird. 13:33:01 "Features: Work with the chainsaw in 1st-person-view" well I guess that sounds quite gamey. 13:33:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:37:18 -!- muskrat has joined. 14:00:32 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:02:51 fizzie: it's like gears of war, but the enemies are a little bit more...wooden 14:03:37 @messages 14:05:05 -!- conehead_ has joined. 14:07:19 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:08:21 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:12:52 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:18:05 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 14:27:17 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:38:36 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:53:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:54:15 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:54:22 -!- Slereah has quit. 14:54:36 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:08:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:10:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:12:40 -!- conehead_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 15:13:23 -!- conehead has changed nick to conehead_. 15:13:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:14:03 -!- conehead has joined. 15:15:35 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 15:18:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:20:24 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:20:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:22:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:23:36 sup 15:25:18 -!- jconn has joined. 15:39:10 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:53:02 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:55:43 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 15:59:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:01:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:20:00 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:24:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:34:58 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:39:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:14:10 'morning 17:14:26 fizzie: woodchips for heating purposes but not for mushroom-growing purposes? 17:14:34 fungot: do you grow on woodchips? 17:14:34 kmc: 34580840+0 records out of vectors, i guess that 17:15:47 'fternoon 17:15:59 fungot: do you grow mushrooms? 17:15:59 olsner: in the monad io. its type is provable in classical first order logic theory evaluator. and pronounce it " faulty". 17:18:43 some neighbor is sawing or grinding something... loudly :( 17:19:35 that used to happen to me a lot a while back, but it stopped 17:19:42 presumably they finished whatever it was they were building 17:20:35 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:45:07 -!- Halite has changed nick to HaliteTablet. 17:57:30 maybe they gave up and threw it into the ocean 17:57:38 hi Halite 18:00:18 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:26:16 are wood stoves bad 18:27:03 I hear you can buy wood stoves for poor people. 18:27:27 fungot: How do you grow mushrooms in the IO monad? 18:27:28 fizzie: if b clones the vlr. its at that point vatican was the ruling power, and it looks good 18:27:42 fungot: Okay, it sounds p. difficult. 18:27:42 fizzie: good then. as kate refuses to *edit* binary files just fine now with readelf. ( i was designing it in my face when a calendar item is due, other than sharing the monitor with a box, and does the winner get a cut. unless you stole it. 18:29:16 lol. 18:32:07 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:33:37 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:33:38 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:34:37 olsner: do you know anything about growing mushrooms in the monad io? thxplz 18:34:59 i'm particularly interested in 1up mushrooms 18:35:08 quintopia: I defer to fungot, the resident expert on IO-monadic mushroom growing 18:35:08 olsner: hi, seems you too are taking fnord to a fnord interrupt things, to go with 18:35:17 well mushroom growing is all about purity, avoiding contamination 18:35:40 kmc: i'm okay with unsafeMushrooms 18:36:29 im not :'( 18:36:40 anyway the usual result is that you get no mushrooms at all, only mold and bacteria 18:37:29 kmc: can i grow Maybe 1up mushrooms? 18:37:44 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:37:49 a 1up mushroom is like a green A. muscaria 18:38:10 but there's no actual mushroom that looks like that 18:38:14 but amanita don't let you cheat death afaik 18:38:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:38:20 quite the opposite 18:38:26 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:38:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_phalloides is kinda green and it's one of the most poisonous mushrooms there is 18:39:10 maybe if i i grew them with the monad io they would be life-giving rather than -taking 18:39:30 i think you might need a comonad for that 18:40:12 ah 18:47:16 someone just exploded a glass in this cafe 18:47:25 like i got hit in the face by flying glass 18:48:02 :O 18:48:07 are you okay? 18:48:28 -!- atriq has joined. 18:48:35 yeah fine 18:48:38 hi Taneb 18:48:43 but it's not safe to walk in here 18:48:54 tanello 18:49:03 that sounds like a delicious chocolate bar 18:49:22 it was. but i ate it all 18:50:09 :O 18:54:23 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:54:25 Hi 18:55:21 -!- muskrat has joined. 18:59:23 -!- muskrat has left. 19:05:51 http://i.imgur.com/YZVtLW3.jpg i love rich people 19:09:23 thanks we love you too Bike 19:09:39 (this is another "proposal" by some VC nerd) 19:09:50 somebody pointed out that this would be a significant net increase in Republican senate seats 19:10:12 unclear if the proposers want that or just don't realize it 19:10:27 Bike: did you see http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/the_next_silicon_valley/2013/12/silicon_valley_s_invasion_of_san_francisco_not_quite_the_ayn_rand_nightmare.html 19:11:44 no, nice 19:11:48 "many of them don’t know who Cesar Chavez was" D: 19:12:28 "I am the spirit of César Chávez." "Then why do you look like César Romero?" "Because you don't know what César Chávez looks like." 19:12:58 clearly we need a new film like American Psycho 19:13:09 that fucking business card scene man, i crack up every time 19:13:31 i guess the modern version would be talking about how minimalist your website's design is 19:14:12 i really should watch that movie 19:17:10 good article though 19:18:51 how does cesar chavez relate to silicon valley? 19:21:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:23:35 well that paragraph is talking about techies moving into the Mission and being ignorant of the cultural history 19:28:53 * kmc lives 1 block from Cesar Chavez St. 19:30:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:31:29 i was going to say all the streets are named after him but i forgot if that was tre :V 19:35:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_named_after_Cesar_Chavez#Major_streets 19:38:30 wow, like twenty schools just in cali 19:42:32 meanwhile in florida http://newsone.com/2814127/florida-school-named-after-kkk-grand-wizard-gets-new-name/ 19:44:06 -!- preflex has joined. 19:44:33 preflex: remember shit perl is pretty awesome you can almost right as you speek 19:45:16 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:54:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:55:08 -!- tromp_ has joined. 20:00:09 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:06:08 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 20:09:44 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1tcpb4/rsa_took_10m_from_nsa_to_make_backdoored_dual_ec/ 20:10:01 I thought it's been 'allegedly' backdoored, that the algorithm hasn't been proven to be backdoored? 20:10:25 i think that's right 20:10:30 Sgeo_: basically it has some constants in it that nobody knows where they come from 20:10:55 well more than that, researchers have demonstrated how those constants could have been chosen to include a backdoor 20:10:58 Yeah yeah, and it's been proven that they could have been chosen to serve as a public key 20:11:01 Of sorts 20:11:01 if the constants were constructed using a specific algorithm, it would generate a key at the same time that would backdoor the algorithm 20:11:02 it was proved to be "backdoored" whether intentionally or not in 2006 20:11:05 http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html 20:11:10 and then RSA used it for no good reason whatsoever a few years later 20:11:10 or they might just be random, in which case no backdoor exits 20:11:17 and yeah this suspicion predates the snowden leaks by years 20:11:18 But hasn't been proven that this is actually the case 20:11:19 and then leaked NSA documents said they had compromised encryption standards 20:11:23 but -- yeah 20:11:25 and then it's news that the NSA paid RSA $10M 20:11:45 this might be a tiny little hint that dual Dual_EC_DRBG is backdoored <_< 20:11:48 s/dual // 20:11:59 also that Dual_EC_DRBG is just shitty and so there's no reason to use it if the govt isn't paying you to 20:15:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:16:00 and this is crypto, we should all know that "well maybe nobody knows the backdoor" is security through obscurity. 20:17:41 and if you have some suspicion that a company did something shitty and they deny it, you should probably just assume that they're lying to your face because they are full of shit and i hate everybody. 20:18:11 good application of hanlon's razor 20:18:25 hoover's razor 20:19:48 Oh, apparently the backdoor doesn't work if you have 31 bytes or less? 20:20:14 wait why does that matter 20:20:19 It doesn't 20:20:32 being able to predict an RNG output after just 31 bytes is a pretty strong backdoor 20:20:41 it's important that we microanalyze this to defend the NSA 20:21:39 what if it only works when you have exactly 32 bytes, no more and no fewer 20:22:12 Bike is right, there can be no nuance in this matter whatsoever 20:23:12 Phantom_Hoover is right, kill all humans 20:24:51 it's not a matter of nuance, it's a matter of the NSA being known to have crippled its own government's security for years with nobody being able to know about it, so why bother counting fucking bytes at this point 20:24:56 hug all humans 20:25:48 remember how RSA said dual_ec_drbg's slowness was good because it made attacks slower. that was funny 20:26:34 also yes, kill all humans, bike superiority 20:27:27 Bike: some crypto algorithms are intentionally designed to be slow, e.g. password hashing functions 20:27:42 but they tend to have scalable slowness for that purpose 20:28:23 http://lists.randombit.net/pipermail/cryptography/2013-September/005341.html 20:29:24 ha ha. 20:30:10 should have put more pounds of coke in there 20:31:23 "Most developers would probably use the faster symmetric alternatives, but perhaps a small number would prefer the added confidence of a provably-secure construction. Unfortunately, here is where NIST ran into their first problem with Dual_EC. Flaw #1: Dual-EC has no security proof." 20:31:39 "Let me spell this out as clearly as I can. In the course of proposing this complex and slow new PRG where the only damn reason you'd ever use the thing is for its security reduction, NIST forgot to provide one. This is like selling someone a Mercedes and forgetting to attach the hood ornament." 20:33:12 apparently i don't know enough about cars to get the simile except from context 20:34:01 Mercedes are bling-cars 20:34:21 sure you can drive them but that's not why you buy them 20:34:30 right 20:45:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:46:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:04:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:22:51 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:05:46 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:25:14 "Former South Sudan Vice-President Riek Machar tells the BBC that rebel forces are under his control and have taken the key oil-producing Unity state." 22:25:17 great name 22:29:32 http://www.kufic.info/architecture/architecture.htm hell yes 22:30:48 how is this ordered, uzbekistan is before turkmenistan 22:31:17 * Bike bookmarks 22:31:19 descending sort by number of uzbeks 22:31:27 makes sense 22:31:44 oh, christ, look at all these books. bad site, i have a budget 22:33:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:53:28 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:14:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:17:08 -!- muskrat has joined. 23:17:45 Are there square currency units used for any purpose? 23:18:04 ? 23:18:08 like coins but square? 23:18:15 do you mean like square meters 23:20:33 Yes, like square meters and stuff like that 23:20:56 Let $ be the symbol for the currency unit. $ is money. $/$ (unitless) is a simple interest rate. $/$s (equivalent to hertz!?) is a compound interest rate, I think 23:20:57 they are used for bounties in Trigun. 23:21:37 er shouldn't an interest rate be in terms of time 23:21:45 why would that change with compounding 23:21:50 zzo38: the units on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_(finance) might get pretty weird 23:21:55 Bike: How does that work? 23:22:02 sixty billion double dollars. 23:22:22 kmc, I may have forgotten quite what simple interest is 23:22:51 Let $ be the symbol for the currency unit. $ is money. $/$ (unitless) is a simple interest rate. $/$s (equivalent to hertz!?) is a compound interest rate, I think 23:22:57 everything's equivalent to hertz 23:23:01 roentgens, for instance 23:23:05 "famous for Confusion of Confusions, a book about stock markets" ha 23:23:23 er, becquerels# 23:23:48 Phantom_Hoover, whatever would describe a time machine accelerating is equivalent to hertz, too 23:28:35 Odd thing about be #642: I am more conservative with money when I expect an immediate reward to my purchase 23:28:50 `quote 642 23:28:55 642) well, i have to assume if i'm going to make any asses 23:30:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:31:32 I still do not understand, how you mean using for bounties, and that stuff? 23:32:14 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:33:26 -!- polytone has changed nick to monotone. 23:33:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 2013-12-22: 00:09:24 -!- rntz has changed nick to rntz^2. 00:17:04 I had some dream (I think just yesterday/today) and I should put it into the computer today. First I am reading something else but then I will do, please. 00:17:24 Please? 00:25:00 Bike: always be polite 00:26:29 http://www.theonion.com/articles/dollar-tree-ceo-officially-unveils-longrumored-foi,32684/ do you get it 00:40:18 I didn't know you can measure compound interest in hertz. But now I suppose I can understand it. 00:40:47 (Maybe) 00:42:05 Bike: yes hth 00:42:21 good 00:45:36 -!- conehead has joined. 00:52:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:59:17 zzo38: Finally, a use for picohertz? 01:05:25 **** quantum computing 01:12:30 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:12:54 -!- tertu has joined. 01:13:53 pikhq: Yes, I suppose that would be a use for it, then 01:14:08 Hmm, can you represent compound interest as hertz? 01:14:13 I think you would run into issues 01:14:47 Because 1% every one unit of time is not the same as 10% every ten units of time is not the same as 100% every hundred units of time 01:23:57 I think exponentials may have to be involved somewhere, which, for a unit, is most odd 01:25:04 what about coexponentials 01:25:14 ... logarithms? 01:27:56 I think it's log $ / s 01:29:01 logarithm-dollars per second? 01:29:11 Yes 01:29:17 anyway coexponentials are left adjoint to coproducts or something?? 01:29:21 That is the unit of compound interest 01:31:19 I think € is closer to an SI currency 01:33:27 -!- ^v has joined. 01:34:20 the unit euro is stored in a french vault 01:35:30 Taneb: Yes I am actually also unsure, for the same reasons as you, too 01:36:17 Surely the SI euro should be standardized as a constant of nature, such as the daily expenditure of a physics grad student 01:37:22 Or perhaps the marginal cost of a strange quark. 01:37:36 just pin it to the big mac and call it good 01:38:31 Now the real question is, what's the planck unit of money? 01:39:04 i think the smallest seriously used unit of money i've seen was the average cost of a semiconductor 01:39:13 oerjan: how come https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_presentation and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finitely_presented don't redirect to the same page 01:39:32 Yeah, but that's not Planck units. :) 01:39:52 oerjan: imo the former is v. obviously biased and should probably be more like the latter 01:42:36 Bike, what is the average price of a semiconductor? 01:43:46 a trillionth of a cent, or something like that 01:44:59 Bike: plz answer in dogecoins thx 01:45:35 So, about 1 DOGE. 01:46:05 Bike, another channel is asking what do you mean by "a" semiconductor 01:46:26 I'd guess "a transistor". 01:46:27 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:46:49 Taneb: imo they can ask Bike directly if they care so much 01:49:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:50:57 -!- Bike has joined. 01:53:00 i meant a transistor, yes 01:53:03 words are hard 01:54:02 and 'semiconductor' sounds cooler than 'transitor' even though just a stupid lump of silicon ore is semiconductive 01:54:51 Isn't... silicon ore most rocks? 01:55:34 Hmm 01:55:45 If time is money, then compound interest is log s/s 01:55:48 i'm not sure industrial silicon is extracted from silica 01:56:27 oh, it is 01:56:34 So compound interest is the logarithm of time to the timeth root 01:56:35 but anyway most rocks aren't silica 01:56:54 the way they get wafers is really cool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_process 01:57:22 Phantom__Hoover, Hexham's in sandstone country 01:57:48 If time is money, then BTC provides a means of converting electricity into time. 01:58:22 you can also convert electricity to money by, uh... selling it to people 01:59:20 Or by electrolisis of, uh... solutions containing gold? 01:59:42 pikhq, solutions containing € 02:01:39 a solid solution between £ and $ 02:02:17 kind of want to make a fully mechanical bitcoin miner now 02:03:02 Anyway, I ought to sleep 02:03:21 what if our universe is just the proof-of-work for someone's cryptocurrency 02:04:24 then i shall make fun of god on internet forums. 02:06:58 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:25:23 There is various format tags for .MOD format; there is "M.K." which does not stand for Mahoney & Kaktus, but one tag used only once is "M&K!"; does that one stand for Mahoney & Kaktus, maybe? 02:29:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:55:26 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:57:14 * Sgeo_ vageuly plans on buying some bitcoins 02:58:59 oh for god's sake 02:59:02 why 02:59:08 why the fuck would you do that 03:01:05 Worst that could happen is I lose some money, right? 03:01:21 yes but... argh 03:01:34 consider how many purchases you could justify with that. 03:01:42 particularly, any purchase 03:01:45 look if you want to speculate you are far better off learning about investment in general rather than following this one specific fad 03:02:27 I have noticed myself buying stuff more often when I'd usually try to make do with free alternatives 03:02:44 All the documentation for .MOD format seems pretty bad. Some documents say the Fxx effect sets the speed for the next line, although OpenMPT affects it on the current line. 03:02:57 zzo38: don 03:03:08 don't different players render .mods differnetly sometimes? 03:03:22 I think Phantom__Hoover wants some bitcoins for christmas 03:03:35 well if you want to give me free money i'm game 03:03:51 i think i even had a wallet, i wonder if it has anything in it 03:05:31 Sgeo_: That may be true in some cases (as far as I know, most players don't emulate the Amiga hardware filter) 03:05:50 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:07:23 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:07:41 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 03:08:36 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 03:26:34 OK, I wrote about the dreams now 03:26:50 Tell me if you have anything in your dream to add to the report, too. 03:48:16 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:49:32 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:08:03 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:32:19 -!- Edward___ has joined. 04:32:25 anybody home? 04:32:33 nope. 04:32:54 I'm not familiar with IRCs. 04:32:59 this is strictly for esolang? 04:33:00 Welcome! 04:33:08 Yep, this channel is Esolang's. 04:33:17 LinearInterpol: use the welcome msg 04:33:22 `welcome Edward___ 04:33:24 i can't backtick 04:33:24 Great, I have a few questions, could I ask you? 04:33:25 Edward___: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:33:33 lol. 04:33:42 Edward___: sure, ask away. 04:33:48 (offtopic, but most messages here are off-topic) http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/12/nyregion/slogan-causes-pencil-recall.html 04:34:16 Learned brainfuck about a year ago 04:34:23 "Do drugs" 04:34:26 smart advice. 04:34:28 And now I'm learning C, in order to work on my eventual undergraduate thesis 04:34:41 Which involves creating a language. 04:34:53 oh sweet! C is awesome. 04:35:07 So for a potential creator of a language... What's some broad advice you can give me? 04:35:14 Keep it consistent. 04:35:15 linearinterpol: Was that sarcasm? :-P 04:35:20 don't fuck it up 04:35:27 ion: about C or the drugs. 04:35:29 because both aren't. 04:35:30 :D 04:35:43 Thanks! I consider myself conversational with Python, and fluent in Java ;) 04:35:45 Edward___: have you taken a class in programming language design? 04:35:48 So C is a whole new beast. 04:35:59 but the cool thing about undergraduate theses is that nobody will care after you're done, so don't sweat it 04:36:02 No, I have yet to. 04:36:17 Well, my goal is to hope somebody cares, I want my PhD :) 04:36:18 Edward___: the key to designing a language is consistency. whatever symantics or syntax you give it, make sure it adheres to a strict set of guidelines. 04:36:38 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:36:42 design it in small chunks. 04:36:45 trust me, the only master's thesis anyone's cared about in the last two hundred years is shannon's, and you ain't him 04:36:51 Edward___: that would probably help. it forces you to become familiar with all the various paradigms, and the goals that are typically aimed at by language designers 04:36:52 Bike: +10. 04:36:56 Shannon's? Who is shannon? 04:37:04 claude shannon, look 'im up, cool guy 04:37:23 Great, I'd love to. 04:37:26 Thanks! 04:37:33 basically what i'm saying is, do take it seriously since presumably this has consequences, but don't worry too much about designing something that has to last 04:37:34 Also, I've learned a bit about paradigms. 04:37:52 Yeah, I got what you were saying :) 04:38:00 Edward___: how many paradigms have you written working code in? 04:38:06 Thanks for the advice nonetheless. 04:38:14 hmmm.... 04:38:33 I'd say 4 04:38:55 3 mains and 1.. extra? 04:39:09 Yeah, 3 mains and I looked at automata based 04:39:12 also, it's pretty easy to learn programming languages since you already know some. learn some that are far from what you know, like haskell or scheme (SICP is free and semi-about language interpreters) 04:39:20 since I'll be in the "Theoretical" focus for my major 04:39:22 or just both 04:39:29 LinearInterpol: the three main being imperative, functional, logical? 04:39:29 SICP is nice yet intimidating. 04:39:40 quintopia: correct. 04:39:40 Well shit, I find C completely different from Java and Python hahaha 04:39:51 well, it is 04:39:52 Edward___: get used to dealing with the "procedural" paradigm. 04:39:59 and manually managing memory. 04:40:00 but there are other completely different ones, see. lots of directions. 04:40:02 And yeah, imperative, functional, logical, and automata. 04:40:22 I like manually managing memory, because if I were to create a really indepth language, I should be good at that, yeah? 04:40:28 if you know automata personally i think writing a quick NFA regex engine is a nice way to learn something 04:40:31 Correct! 04:40:32 I like you. 04:40:42 Thanks! :) 04:40:47 I like me too, and I like your help. 04:40:47 We should hang out and discuss memory management schemes. 04:40:50 Edward___: i'd say it depends on what you're doing... 04:41:01 i like better languages which don't require such memory management :D 04:41:03 Well the thing is, I wouldn't have much to say about memory management schemes... 04:41:06 unless you want to lecture. 04:41:08 shachaf: “trypꙮphobia”. hth 04:41:09 so write one like that 04:41:11 loll. 04:41:19 wouldn't be the first time I've lectured. 04:41:28 last one I gave was non-determinism on deterministic platforms. 04:41:29 memory management is hard, but cool. obviously pretty hard to do well, what else is new 04:41:30 Well I'd love to listen. 04:41:45 or apparent deterministic platforms. 04:41:56 it was a snorefest. 04:42:04 ion: help 04:42:07 quintopia: I'd love to. I'd like to take care of memory management in my language (myself as opposed to letting another language do it) so that the user doesn't have to 04:42:17 hmmm... 04:42:18 what is context 04:42:21 Edward___: a word of advice. 04:42:21 Let me read up on that 04:42:29 very small word of advice. 04:42:31 start small. 04:42:36 shachaf: Do a google image search (or just a google non-image search if you’re squeamish). 04:42:41 you could use a language that has automatic memory management to implement your language and then neither of you would have to care. 04:42:59 i mean, just saying it's an option. 04:43:02 It's not caring, it's perfectionism haha :) 04:43:03 write a language that has context-independent instructions like brainfuck does. 04:43:13 I'd like to show that I can do it, for the purpose of getting attention ;) 04:43:23 oh man. 04:43:27 How would I begin writing said language? 04:43:33 Edward___: Design it. 04:43:37 literally. 04:43:41 like 04:43:49 Edward___: take a look at http://www.ravenbrook.com/project/mps/ 04:43:53 right now probably floating around in your head you have tons of ideas. 04:44:01 yet always keep in mind: everything reduces to symbols. 04:44:13 does 4 reduce to a symbol 04:44:19 4 is a symbol. 04:44:37 so.. 04:44:39 i never seen it sym 04:44:45 Edward___: here's some ideas you should be familiar with and consider: pure object orientation (smalltalk), contracts (eiffel), orthogonality (algol), minimizing initial learning curve (PHP and others), garbage collection algorithms (mark-and-sweep in particular), pure recursion/tail recursion (lambda calculus, combinator languages) 04:44:47 I have lots of ideas hahaha 04:44:59 "4 is a symbol. so..." hahahaha 04:45:24 I've read about garbage collection algorithms, so I'm familiar with a small aspect 04:45:34 effectively the simplest "language" is an alphabet with a bunch of rules applied to it. 04:45:40 but, I've also learned lambda calculus and some other related theory 04:45:44 here is a book on garbage collection http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/rej/gc.html#Book 04:45:53 I mentioned automata earlier for the following reason... 04:45:53 so, I mean. 04:45:57 you can start with that. 04:46:22 Since I am in that "theoretical" subfocus, I'll be doing a lot of boolean algebra, discrete math, numerical analysis, etc... 04:46:35 and automata are a big working point. Anyway... 04:46:40 tcs is great. hope you can hack it better than me. 04:46:56 thanks! I'll check it out. 04:47:03 automata theory is fun. 04:47:15 but I've learned a lot about language design just from little side-notes in books about the theoretical stuff. 04:47:22 a little* 04:47:23 Edward___: a small word of advice. if you want a phd in tcs, don't just be satisfied with discrete math. take every math class you can fit into your schedule, whether it seems useful or not. 04:47:36 i regret not doing that 04:47:39 I am, I will be taking calc 3 next semester. 04:47:43 so is your undergraduate thesis have some kind of criteria to it or is it just "show me a language implementation fucker" 04:47:44 and the following another math 04:47:47 does your* 04:47:57 Well that's the thing, I'm actually working ahead. 04:47:58 by like... 04:48:00 2 years. 04:48:05 Bike: I'd like to think that the criteria was worded exactly like that. 04:48:18 But, I want to have an idea, and honestly, I'd just like to learn. 04:48:38 Quintopia: did you get a phd in tcs? 04:48:53 Edward___: no i couldn't hack it. quit with a masters 04:49:01 Ah, gotcha. 04:49:11 That's nice to hear.... haha 04:49:11 lol. 04:49:14 calc three is vectors right 04:49:16 fun stuff 04:49:21 yeah, multivariate. 04:49:22 fuckin america 04:49:24 fuck vectors. 04:49:29 I like it! 04:49:30 fuck your magnitudes. 04:49:32 that has like nothing to do with computer science but it rules 04:49:39 calc three for cs was fun. but i hear actual calc 3 was very different 04:49:46 I only need a direction. MY MAGNITUDE IS INFINITE. 04:49:53 my school doesn't have a calc 3 for cs... 04:49:59 lame... 04:50:01 LinearInterpol: but you have no direction. heisenberg you know 04:50:10 calc 3 for CS means calc 3 dumbed down, fuck that 04:50:11 I'm uncertain. 04:50:20 it's like those 'math for biologists' courses that are uniformly shitty 04:50:29 well, probably. 04:50:29 ah 04:50:31 Bike: not dumbed at all. just different focus. 04:50:32 Bike: there's a math for biologists? 04:50:33 holy shit. 04:50:33 I'm a bio minor 04:50:44 LinearInterpol: sometimes. 04:50:53 Just finished my first semester of bio...bio 2107 04:50:55 one cell plus one cell equals.. 04:50:55 the joke of course is that biologists are scared of math 04:50:56 got an A :) 04:50:59 ...FACK 04:51:15 Owen White: "Math is to physics as CS is to biology." 04:51:17 nowadays everybody has to know python to treat data or w/e 04:51:23 haha what the fuck? 04:51:27 what the hell. 04:51:29 that. 04:51:30 that isn't. 04:51:31 what. 04:51:33 no. 04:51:34 that's dumb as shit, i love it 04:51:41 hm? 04:51:43 lol. 04:51:53 Edward___: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obCjODeoLVw 04:52:07 very wonderful talk. 04:52:09 Misattributed I assume? 04:52:38 I'll save that to watch once I log off :) 04:52:40 i can't even imagine what thought process could lead to that quote, i love it 04:52:41 it does make sense in one respect 04:52:53 "well it's about like, agents" 04:53:05 computational biology being somehow akin to mathematical physics 04:53:09 "AGENT SYSTEMS! BUZZWORD! that applies to biology, right?" 04:53:18 "...right?" 04:53:22 "..stop laughing." 04:53:26 Well, physics is naturally dependent on math, yeah? 04:53:38 And advancements in biology have most recently come from computers 04:53:45 so maybe not CS 04:53:46 physics is naturally dependent on the entire field of formal science. 04:53:48 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:53:53 but computers 04:53:56 yeah, but advancements in blender manufacturing have most recently come from computers. 04:53:58 -!- mauke has joined. 04:54:03 hahahaha 04:54:07 Bike: don't forget toasters. 04:54:12 that's different, but point taken 04:54:21 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 04:54:28 CS is to X as CS is to Y. 04:54:31 Hey, it was at the beginning of a book on Bioinformatics (maybe an essay) written by the guy who basically founded the field. 04:54:36 fully general simile 04:54:45 And i liked it! 04:55:00 that quit message.... 04:55:09 the badger? 04:55:12 yeah hahahaaha 04:55:16 cute badger 04:55:26 Anyway.... 04:55:28 Edward___: here, let me sum up CS in a few words. 04:55:30 badgers are terrifying irl though 04:55:37 okay 04:55:40 listening :) 04:55:44 anyway, when people say physics is based on math they're not just saying math helps physicists, they're saying it's a conceptual underpinning. 04:55:50 which, well, really isn't true of biology at all. 04:55:53 LinearInterpol: do it like dumdledore 04:56:00 CS is like playing with invisible legos that you can make yourself, and when you arrange those legos in a certain way, you can do amazing things that you couldn't have dreamt of. 04:56:11 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:56:13 and you have an unlimited building space. 04:56:15 i should probably use full sentences and punctuation but fuck that nerd shit 04:56:26 ^ 04:56:27 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:56:29 what 04:56:36 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 04:56:36 and an unlimited amount of legos. 04:56:43 that's not CS. that's programming. 04:56:50 Shhhh 04:56:54 I like it. 04:56:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulien_Hogeweg oh, a woman. that's nice. 04:57:04 quintopia: oh shush your shit, it's CS. 04:57:09 You can make every saying a little fucked. 04:57:10 we're dealing with abstract machines and all sorts of theories. 04:57:14 let me play with invisible legos. 04:57:35 when i think of mathematical biology i just think of lotka though. 04:57:39 "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes" -- probably not Dijkstra 04:57:39 So let's say I'm building Brainfuck. 04:57:45 or like, volterra. volterra's cool. 04:57:55 elliott: love it. 04:58:00 or kolmogorov but he's just the best at everything. 04:58:10 Have you written a brainfuck compiler yet? 04:58:12 Edward___: choose your alphabet, choose your rules, construct an abstract machine, implement it. 04:58:25 elliott: P.N. Dijkstra is definitely my favorite computer philosopher 04:58:40 elliott: I have seen that quotations too, but I think I have seen it attributed to Dijkstra 04:59:04 Either way I like that quotation 04:59:08 too bad optics is probably cooler than computer engineering, on the whole. 04:59:17 Edward___: oh right, i was going to mention kolmogorov machines on the above list. something worth knowing about. 04:59:27 Great, I'll look it up :) 04:59:37 kolmogorov machines! 04:59:51 zzo38: I think it is apocryphal. 05:00:19 Well...the implementation. 05:00:22 That's my concern. 05:00:35 just try writing one. brainfuck compilers are really easy 05:00:43 LinearInterpol: Surely I approach the project differently from a Fibonacci program... 05:00:45 your implementation is certainly dependent upon your choice of rules/alphabet. 05:00:49 as a first approximation, you can just replace every character with a bit of C 05:01:00 Edward___: understand that this field is entirely arbitrary. 05:01:15 Bike: that is true 05:01:22 . = puts("") 05:01:43 the simplest interpreter would be iterating over a string of symbols and modifying some state. 05:01:45 more like putchar(tape[i]) 05:01:47 rather printf("%c",arr[i]) 05:01:50 yeah 05:01:51 that's about it. 05:02:02 you don't even need I/O. 05:02:04 then you can examine why this implementation sucks (does it work on invalid programs? does it tell you how a program is invalid? is it fast? is it safe?) 05:02:22 Bike: what do you mean? 05:02:29 what do i mean by what 05:02:32 analysis of all possible programs. 05:02:39 invalid programs, sorry. 05:02:40 and analysis based on a set of conditions. 05:02:44 As in with errors? 05:02:51 programs with* 05:02:53 Edward___: "++]" isn't a valid brainfuck program, yeah? 05:02:53 Edward___: such as.. [[] 05:02:55 or something. 05:03:03 Gotcha. 05:03:12 Okay great. 05:03:20 Y'all kick ass. 05:03:31 And here my mom is saying I shouldn't talk to strangers... 05:03:42 that's a lie-to-hildren 05:03:46 a useful one tho 05:03:54 if i ever meet you i will sell you methylenedioxymethamphetamine so she has a point 05:04:15 walter? 05:04:28 is that you? 05:04:29 Heisenberg? 05:05:40 goddamn has everyone seen that television programme 05:05:42 Programs without matched [] are invalid brainfuck programs; it is why I suggested once that if the program's input is from the same stream, you should use ] to separate the program from the input (even though most implementations use ! instead) 05:06:19 i agree using ] is much more elgant; no need to expand alphabet 05:07:36 my 112 byte BF interpreter uses that convention too 05:07:46 tromp_: downside is it makes debugging harder. not that usually bothers esolangers. 05:08:44 It also means that ! may be used in comments like in implementations with separate program from input would do, and using ] in case of some kind of Godel numbering, it can help too I guess 05:13:32 what's this about Gödel numbering? 05:14:12 i like numbers 05:14:27 numbers are fun. 05:15:14 kmc: For example if you want the low three bits per number as the first command, and so on, and ] is zero. Hofstadter always used decimal, although I don't like that much. 05:15:30 ah i see 05:16:00 methylenedioxymethamphetamine != methamphetamine, kids 05:16:18 the former is a lot more fun 05:17:15 methylenedioxymethamphetamine 05:17:24 enedioxymethamphe 05:17:34 dioxymet 05:17:40 oxy 05:17:45 x 05:18:03 hmm. yep. much easier to pronounce 05:18:51 also it's shaped like a lizard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MDMA_(simple).svg 05:19:35 quintopia: i like your etymology 05:22:21 shit, it is 05:23:12 i met a guy who did research on psychoactive drugs and he told me that it's even more complicated than I thought 05:24:03 because two drugs which activate the same receptor with the same overall binding affinity might still produce a different distribution of receptor conformations inside the cell, which would trigger different signaling pathways 05:26:43 The entire report of my and other dreams are at: http://zzo38computer.org/misc/weird_dream/dream.txt They are in order of entry, which is not necessarily the order of occurence. 05:27:12 I know you can have fictitious events inside of other fictitious events, but what is it when you have a fictitious event logically *outside* of a fictitious event? (This happened in a dream once) 05:28:12 frame story? 05:29:25 I mean, it is actually inside and not outside, but it is logically as if it is outside. 05:29:38 zzo38: do you mean like waking up from a dream-in-a-dream? 05:34:43 kmc: No. My example is dreaming being someone else of even a different species or whatever, and then going to a place in the dream, that you have the belief that the real you has actually been there, even though that is fictitious and doesn't exist either. (And this belief cannot combine with the ones in context of the dream, due to the strange logic in use) 05:34:53 Hopefully that is clear enough to you? 05:35:34 you just have super weird dreams 05:35:39 i'm a bit jealous 05:38:15 Jealous? Are they so much weird compared to others, or is some other factor at work? Or, perhaps, both! 05:38:42 well, weird to me. i hardly ever dream. 05:47:19 When you do, what do you? 05:48:07 -!- kmc has set topic: [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat | When you do, what do you? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 05:48:18 I love that topic. 05:48:56 i'm sorry baby i had to crash that topic 05:49:05 oh i thought it was a kmc lyrics quote 05:49:11 but it turned out to be a zzo38 quote 05:49:14 "what's the difference" 05:50:48 zzo38, you are famous in the internet, apparently. 05:50:53 google your username. 05:51:29 zzo38: Do you have stairs in your house? 05:51:30 wait wait wait. 05:51:34 zzo38: NESdev? 05:51:39 whoa, whoa, whoa, i forgot about more-notation 05:51:43 Oh christ. 05:51:43 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38/Proposal_for_more-notation 05:52:00 Edward___: Yes I have seen, there is several things in there, whether it is links, random gibberish text, other people's writing, imposters, or unrelated things. 05:52:09 zzo38: Did the almighty kevtris bless you? 05:52:09 kmc: Yes, I do have stairs in my house. 05:52:14 http://zzt.org/fora/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=836 05:52:20 zzo38: Are you protected? 05:52:55 Good night y'all. How do I make my quit text that Badger gif 05:52:57 ? 05:53:04 Because that would make me happy. 05:53:14 LinearInterpol: I don't think so, but I do post in NESdev and do that stuff too 05:53:26 Give marshallh my best if you see him. 05:53:29 Edward___: you just specify the quit text after /quit 05:53:34 -!- Edward___ has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 05:53:38 * kmc claps 05:53:42 that boy is going places. 05:53:51 agreed 05:53:55 going to badgerland 05:54:05 the happiest place on earth!!! 05:54:08 zzo38: can I talk to you about accepting the 6502 as your personal lord and savior. 05:54:09 kmc: Protected? How? 05:54:17 zzo38: from the terrible secret of space 05:54:24 please. 05:54:36 LinearInterpol: You can try! However, I don't accept something as my personal lord and savior. 05:54:49 Aww, but it has decimal mode. 05:54:55 (Other than philosophical ideals, I suppose.) 05:55:12 LinearInterpol: The decimal mode doesn't work in the NES/Famicom. 05:55:15 can i be your shared lord and savior 05:55:32 shachaf: You can try, but I think not. 05:56:01 zzo38: That's why I'm reccomending you switch! 05:56:04 :D 05:56:35 it also just occurred to me that MOS Technologies is the Bender of the semiconductor world. 05:56:50 "I'm gonna go make my own architecture! With blackjack and hookers!" 05:56:53 runs on beer? 05:56:56 ^ and that. 05:57:09 also http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/attachments/off-topic-6/46134d1371914998-count-100-000-pictures-bender_6502-jpg 05:57:16 see. 05:57:18 I was right. 05:57:26 fucking conspiracies. 05:57:33 doesn't this mean Bender is the 6502 of the robot world 05:57:51 * LinearInterpol headsplodes. 05:57:57 LinearInterpol: I would use the decimal mode when programming one that does have decimal mode working, but not for Famicom programs. 05:58:34 zzo38: screw the rules! decimal mode ftw! 05:59:32 LinearInterpol: ??? 05:59:48 x86 Classic also has some decimal mode stuffs 06:00:03 x86 classic is also modeled after the Z80. 06:00:17 AKA the heretic CPU. 06:00:20 and the Z80 is modeled after the 8080 06:00:23 "modeled" 06:00:49 just like the Tu-4 was modeled after the B-29 06:00:56 kmc: Yes it has some instructions for it, but I rarely program stuff in x86 assembly language anyways (except for a few small DOS programs; I have done a few) 06:01:09 (and once, a MBR code) 06:06:07 LinearInterpol: I doubt the 6502 has any instruction built in for either blackjack or hookers although I suppose the former is possible 06:06:36 kmc: damn right. 06:06:52 obligatory http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html 06:07:25 haah 06:07:38 obligatory is damn right. 06:09:59 I have seen story of Mel, too. 06:11:12 don't modern x86 boxes still support decimal mode if you're in real mode or something 06:11:25 in protected mode as well, i believe 06:11:28 but not in long mode 06:11:32 tertu: Yes, but not in 64-bit mode 06:19:33 What is your opinion of these things I added in this dreaming report by now? Furthermore, do you have anything to add or to correct any errors in the text? 06:21:08 Are you aware of any David Sirlin games? 06:33:52 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:37:49 -!- jconn has joined. 06:39:13 http://i.imgur.com/lYjKKpx.png winter in san francisco 06:39:19 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:39:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:40:07 kmc: can we have that in real degrees plz 06:40:16 no 06:41:21 this channel is full of people from hexham and finland 06:41:22 *Real* degrees? Like angular measurements? 06:41:45 hexland 06:41:58 no, like real numbers greater than -273.15 06:42:04 real degrees, like ph.d. 06:42:30 * kmc wonders what complex angles would represent 06:43:47 > asin 3 06:43:50 NaN 06:43:56 oh, huh. 06:44:01 > asin 3 :: Complex 06:44:03 Expecting one more argument to `Data.Complex.Complex' 06:44:05 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:44:07 no good? oh well. 06:44:11 > asin 3 :: Complex Double 06:44:12 1.5707963267948966 :+ (-1.762747174039086) 06:44:30 `run echo '@ASIN3' | ploki 06:44:33 nan 06:44:37 > asin 9 06:44:38 NaN 06:44:47 que es ploki 06:44:55 `run echo '@ASIN 0.5' | ploki 06:44:57 0.523598775598299 06:44:59 mauke: Does ploki just read from stdin? 06:45:10 shachaf: stdin or file 06:45:24 it can't execute from argv 06:45:56 You should make a `runploki command that reads from argv. 06:46:07 I'd do it but I'm not sure how much special character support is necessary? 06:46:17 tell me about ploki 06:46:58 kmc: it's a scripting language modeled after BASIC, Perl, and assembler code 06:47:47 shachaf: the main reason I haven't done that yet is that ploki insists on newlines between statements 06:47:54 which is awkward on the command line 06:48:36 You could use echo -e or something like that. But still awkward. 06:48:47 `run echo $'hello\nworld\n' 06:48:48 hello \ world 06:49:02 i like to do things like git commit -am $'blah\n\blah blah' 06:49:05 kmc: there is some documentation at http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/ploki/ploki-0.6.5.1/doc/ 06:49:16 but like the rest of ploki, it's part of the practical joke 06:49:33 I know about $'' but it wouldn't work with an externally supplied string. 06:49:54 there's all sorts of fun hidden in the corners that the documentation doesn't cover 06:50:16 e.g. it's not obvious from the description of the syntax that ploki has literally no syntax errors 06:50:49 the only "error" it has is going into an infinite loop 06:51:25 this is based on an implementation accident when I first did the GOTO command 06:52:06 but I was quite pleased to discover _|_ being used both for errors and nontermination, 10 years later 06:52:57 unlike Perl it uses _ for concatenation (instead of .) 06:53:39 this is because at the time I didn't know about parsers and . was already part of the syntax for numeric literals (.123, etc) so I had to use something else 06:54:15 later on, perl6 also used _ for this purpose (but then they switched to ~) 06:54:52 because _ was taken, I needed another character to separate words in identifiers. I chose $ 06:55:24 and guess what? javascript does the same thing, treating $ as a letter! 06:56:10 conclusion: ploki is full of silly and stupid ideas but also weirdly prophetic sometimes 06:57:31 nice 06:58:47 it almost-but-not-quite supports functional programming via the @OMFG operator 07:01:05 ooh, and the documentation is written to make you build a nicely organized mental model of the syntax in your head (a program is a list of statements, a statement contains expressions, expressions look like this ...) 07:01:35 but other parts of the language violate this layering 07:01:51 if I had to write a formal grammar for it, I wouldn't even know where to start 07:30:38 Also in some C implementations the $ is also a letter 07:36:34 I looked at the ploki documentation, and some of the examples, and other stuff on the same server and found this: http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/img/regex.png I don't know what the symbol in the circle is supposed to be but I think I can understand its meaning, at least. Therefore it also give me the idea to make a label/goto operators in a regular expression 08:07:04 http://i.imgur.com/qzstp.png 08:07:55 hell yea 08:12:10 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:16:31 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:25:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:04:19 I might sing in public tomorrow 09:04:27 good luck 09:04:40 Hmm, Bike probably hasn't heard me singing 09:40:45 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:45:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:50:06 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:50:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:58:35 shachaf: v. fascinating 10:05:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:14:00 @tell Taneb I think exponentials may have to be involved somewhere, which, for a unit, is most odd <-- "decibels" hth 10:14:00 Consider it noted. 10:14:17 @tell Taneb Also "bits". 10:14:17 Consider it noted. 10:14:25 -!- tromp_ has joined. 10:16:00 1 deciBel = 0.1 Bel 10:16:11 Nobody uses Bels though 10:16:31 Nobody also writes it "deciBel". 10:16:42 It's just "decibel (dB)".' 10:16:50 I think 6 decibels is twice the power 10:17:22 More like three. 10:17:39 indeed, officially only the abbrevations of units named after persons have capitalization. 10:17:50 newton (N), etc. 10:18:31 (Well, more like 10*log10(2).) 10:19:03 > 10*logBase 10 2 10:19:06 3.0102999566398116 10:19:35 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:19:40 Though there's a factor of 2 that often appers in things related to decibels, because of some kind of a square. 10:21:17 amplitude vs. energy or something like that 10:21:55 Twice the amplitude is four times the power 10:22:14 Yes. So you need a 6 dB change to double the amplitude. 10:23:38 * oerjan wonders why they chopped off the "l" in Bell's name 10:24:30 I can only assume that cojazz is the dual of jazz 10:24:59 oerjan: That's still better than calling the unit "Alexander", though. 10:25:23 Then we'd be measuring sound and other thing in decialexanders (dA). 10:26:06 Sgeo_: Actually, jazz is self-dual 10:27:20 fizzie: A is already taken anyway 10:27:37 fizzie: have any units been named after someone's first name 10:28:11 dAlex 10:29:19 I can't think of any. I'm sure there's at least some "jokey" thing. 10:30:01 i see they mangled Napier's name even worse. 10:30:24 How about Kelvin, I guess that's not exactly a surname? 10:30:47 Given that it's "William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin" or some-suchg. 10:30:53 Yeah 10:30:56 well it's presumably a place name 10:31:04 Also re Bell -> bel, there's also Faraday -> farad. 10:31:16 hm right 10:31:24 (And Volta -> volt.) 10:31:38 He was lorded for what he did with thermodynamics though 10:31:51 The title came from the river Kelvin 10:32:25 Baudot -> baud. 10:33:18 (I'm going through Wikipedia's "List of scientific units named after people", looking for first names; none so far.) 10:35:12 i somehow associate the custom of nobles (or royals) having surnames distinct from their titles as something british. 10:35:54 Oh, helens (you know, 1 millihelen is the amount of beauty needed to launch one ship, and so on) are named after a first name. I guess. I mean, I don't suppose Helen of Troy has a recorded surname, anyway. 10:38:05 yeah i was thinking of explicitly excluding any units named after ancients, but couldn't think of any. 10:38:20 oerjan: Have you ever measured anything in oersteds? 10:38:41 @messages-loud 10:38:41 oerjan said 24m 41s ago: I think exponentials may have to be involved somewhere, which, for a unit, is most odd <-- "decibels" hth 10:38:42 oerjan said 24m 24s ago: Also "bits". 10:38:51 oerjan, yeah, I realised 10:39:18 fizzie: i don't think so. 10:40:09 Just thought you might have a natural affinity. 10:41:31 it seems to be obsolete (pre-SI) 10:41:55 also, i dropped out of physics about when i should have got seriously into electromagnetism. 10:42:38 allergic aversion to lab writeups, terrible case. 10:44:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:45:30 anyway coexponentials are left adjoint to coproducts or something?? <-- is there any category that has those and isn't obviously the dual of something more natural. 10:46:47 i note an absense of any prominent wikipedia link. 11:16:22 -!- tromp_ has joined. 11:18:56 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:29:28 -!- carado has joined. 11:50:49 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:01:56 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:24:08 -!- CADD_ has joined. 12:24:08 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 12:52:40 -!- yorick has joined. 13:00:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:01:25 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:02:02 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 13:02:02 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:13:52 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:43:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:44:05 -!- augur has joined. 13:44:30 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:44:45 -!- augur has joined. 14:12:34 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:18:37 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:37:43 > [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat 14:37:45 [Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Jus... 14:38:10 @type repeat 14:38:11 a -> [a] 14:38:35 > [Just (), Nothing] >>= cycle.([]) 14:38:38 Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe () -> [b0]' 14:38:38 with actual type `[a0]' 14:39:03 @type cycle.([]) 14:39:05 Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> [a1]' with actual type `[a2]' 14:39:05 In the second argument of `(.)', namely `([])' 14:39:05 In the expression: cycle . ([]) 14:39:10 Why is that? 14:39:41 I thought [] is essentially \a -> [a] 14:40:16 :t [] 14:40:18 [a] 14:40:34 :t ([]) 14:40:36 [a] 14:40:47 (you want (:[]) ) 14:46:48 -!- conehead has joined. 14:56:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:56:37 > (:[]) 2 14:56:39 [2] 14:56:42 yeah 15:06:42 Robot monkey! 15:07:06 Note that (:[]) is just as long as pure 15:07:08 > pure 2 15:07:11 No instance for (Control.Applicative.Applicative f0) 15:07:11 arising from a use of `e_12' 15:07:11 The type variable `f0' is ambiguous 15:07:11 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 15:07:11 Note: there are several potential instances: 15:07:36 That would work if something else depended on it being a list 15:07:50 :t cycle . (:[]) 15:07:52 a -> [a] 15:08:07 That's the same as repeat 15:17:17 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:17:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:47:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:07:02 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:07:20 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:14:25 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:19:19 :t pure 16:19:21 Applicative f => a -> f a 16:19:37 :i pure 16:19:50 hm 16:19:56 > pure 5 :: Maybe Int 16:19:59 Just 5 16:20:02 so 16:20:03 it's the same thing as return 16:20:04 it's uhm... 16:20:12 except for applicatives 16:20:16 return for applictives? 16:20:59 :t lift 16:21:01 (Monad m, MonadTrans t) => m a -> t m a 16:21:20 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:21:22 > (lift id $ 5) :: Maybe Int 16:21:24 Couldn't match kind `*' with `* -> *' 16:21:24 Expected type: (->) (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Int) 16:21:24 -> Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Int 16:21:24 Actual type: (->) (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Int) 16:21:24 -> Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Types.Int 16:21:46 Hm yeah 16:21:49 That does not work that way 16:22:35 Maybe Int does not fit into t m a 16:22:38 > arr id 16:22:41 No instance for (Control.Arrow.Arrow a0) 16:22:41 arising from a use of `e_1' 16:22:41 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 16:22:41 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 16:22:41 Note: there are several potential instances: 16:23:02 > (lift id $ 5) :: MaybeT Identity Int 16:23:03 Not in scope: type constructor or class `MaybeT' 16:23:03 Perhaps you meant `Maybe' (imported from Data.Maybe) 16:23:12 welp 16:26:03 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:32:59 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:37:37 -!- ^v has joined. 16:48:53 @let import Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe 16:48:55 Defined. 16:48:59 Try again 16:51:06 Although it won't work 16:53:55 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:54:23 -!- tertu has joined. 17:02:48 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:18:25 (>) :: IO t -> FilePath -> IO t; main = putStrLn "Hello, world!" > "foo.txt" 17:21:26 nice 17:26:30 What would you use for inequality? 17:30:50 | probably can't be used because of guard syntax 18:02:16 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:02:33 -!- carado has joined. 18:05:42 -!- tromp__ has joined. 18:06:18 -!- ^v has changed nick to VERSION. 18:06:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:08:59 taking this NYT American English dialect quiz 18:09:03 "QUESTION 24 OF 25: What do you call a drive-through liquor store?" 18:09:24 I still don't believe they exist 18:10:04 http://gowally.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/double_shot_liquor_guns.jpg 18:10:19 :( 18:10:45 Well, screw the real world I am going to watch the Hobbit again 18:10:57 drive through hobbits and rings 18:11:45 Drive-through volcanoes, for all your on-the-go ring-of-doom unmaking needs. 18:12:04 -!- jaydubzy has joined. 18:15:08 -!- andras_ has joined. 18:15:33 Hi 18:16:02 -!- andras_ has left. 18:16:22 * kmc dejectedly sets down his `relcome 18:18:23 `relcome 18:18:29 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:18:48 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:21:02 `relcome zzo38 18:21:04 ​zzo38: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:21:32 oerjan: wow, do you just hate duals 18:21:49 oerjan: you're like http://math.stackexchange.com/q/556921 18:31:51 -!- muskrat has joined. 18:33:25 -!- muskrat has left. 18:36:58 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 19:04:48 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:05:26 -!- tromp_ has joined. 19:10:19 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:12:21 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:13:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:14:03 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 19:27:16 FreeFull: there's always ¦ 19:28:48 Yeah, but that's an unicode character. Some people can't write it 19:29:26 THEY'RE ALL UNICODE CHARACTERS 19:29:30 THAT IS THE POINT OF UNICODE 19:29:31 ahem. 19:30:50 Sorry, I meant a character that's outside ASCII 19:31:20 Hm, I can't remember if altgr+shift+< is ¦ on windows se-qwerty too, or if that's a X11 thing 19:31:48 It's not printed on the keyboard, so I guess the latter is likely 19:31:54 ¦ is on the backslash/pipe key or me. 19:31:58 for 19:32:05 wow 19:32:05 <>|¦ is on one key for me 19:32:11 That outburst of rage 19:32:25 :D 19:32:29 Actually there are also many things that aren't available in Unicode, although all ASCII characters are available, at least, and many others (with a lot of confusing and redundancy and other complexities and stupid stuff, though) 19:32:42 zzo38: which characters aren't available in Unicode? 19:32:53 Klingon and most other constructed writing systems 19:33:03 though they have semi-official private use area allocations 19:33:28 * kmc . o O ( and yet Hangul is in the BMP ) 19:33:42 FireFly: probably not, I think someone went a bit crazy mapping altgr-everything in x's keymaps 19:33:50 wait, why wouldn't hangul be in the bmp 19:34:01 the joke is that hangul is a constructed writing system 19:34:11 We should probably switch to Vector Fonts 19:34:13 Indeed 19:34:22 If they don't already exist, I call it my invention . 19:34:22 | 19:34:24 oh. 19:34:37 it just happens to be the most popular one by like 5 orders of magnitude 19:34:39 so there's no encoding anymore at all 19:34:45 Ok, so | is different from the one with the space inside, although my keyboard's rendition of | has a space inside 19:34:46 Why 19:34:47 It's just Vector Graphics STuff 19:35:09 Sgeo_: I think http://www.wps.com/J/codes/ has far more than you could ever want to know on this subject 19:35:11 also... you wouldn't need a font anymore . 19:35:23 i think you'll fine most writing systems are constructed :colbert: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cangjie2.jpg 19:35:25 The text is already in vector graphics form. 19:35:40 wtf 19:35:55 "Legend has it that he had four eyes and four pupils, and that when he invented the characters, the deities and ghosts cried and the sky rained millet" 19:36:33 mroman: how would copy/paste work? 19:36:35 mroman: you know, being able to choose a font is actually an advantage. 19:36:46 Actually, no, copy/paste would work 19:36:57 But you'd be stuck with the formatting of the original, I think 19:37:17 Sgeo_: Why wouldn't that work 19:37:22 It's just character after character 19:37:39 The same way it works with Bitmap Fonts essentially 19:38:01 You have a fixed grid 19:38:02 like uhm 19:38:08 10px high, 8 px wide 19:38:16 Are there actual code-points involved, or is every 'character' just an image, with no way to compare between 'fonts'? 19:38:21 mroman: it's rather inconvenient to manipulate text when it's stored as individual strokes 19:38:30 A character is a description of its appearance 19:38:51 Ok, suppose I have a website written by a very smart person, but they used a Comic Sans like font 19:39:00 good supposition 19:39:02 I want to copy something they said into an email to some professional person 19:39:17 Sgeo_: is this person named Simon Peyton Jones 19:39:29 How do I do that while stripping the bad formatting? Or do I just say "Sorry, the person who wrote this used Comic Sans"? 19:40:26 -!- VERSION has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 19:42:24 or what if you want to, say, index or search or translate text 19:42:51 mroman: you could just store every document as an svg with no text in it 19:42:55 doesn't mean this is in any way a good idea 19:43:07 anyway, fonts don't have fixed grids, generally 19:43:13 (monospaced ones are the exception, and even then...) 19:45:16 i don't think i can remember any language-inventors more colorful than cangjie 19:45:25 oh. wikipedia has an article. 19:45:39 the process which takes a font and a sequence of codepoints and outputs a vector image is called text shaping and it's very complicated 19:45:40 well, none of them will be more badass than Sequoyah, anyway 19:46:10 Bike: true facts. 19:48:45 -!- iamcal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:49:06 -!- conehead_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:49:12 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:49:29 -!- _46bit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:52:33 -!- iamcal has joined. 19:52:38 -!- _46bit has joined. 19:53:02 -!- _46bit has changed nick to Guest80779. 19:54:32 -!- CADD has joined. 19:55:49 -!- conehead has joined. 20:01:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:22:25 -!- xstefeN has joined. 20:33:29 -!- xstefeN has left ("Leaving"). 20:34:45 -!- constant has changed nick to function. 20:37:05 Learned today: the most arbitrary-looking numeric limit ever: http://sprunge.us/PeNV 20:37:33 haha 20:38:59 that's in the ballpark of 80 bits... maybe they added 80 bit support for x87 20:39:01 doesn't quite add up though 20:43:02 I guess it's something more complicated, since it's not even consistent: http://sprunge.us/ePMZ 20:43:17 ;_; 20:44:09 0x00001000000000000000000000000000 is also okay. 20:44:16 just gdb gdb. 20:44:24 Maybe it's some sort of "can be exactly represented in some type" kind of thing. 20:45:01 (It doesn't actually set the correct value even when it doesn't complain, if it's >64 bits, so...) 20:47:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:47:42 http://sprunge.us/cFNW yes, I'm going to go with "is exact for an 80-bit long double" kind of thing. (That has 64 bits of precision, as I recall.) 20:49:24 clearly you should put together a "wat" talk for GDB 20:50:47 one thing that really frustrated me is that there's no easy way to examine a memory operand of the form %fs:0x70 20:51:34 i ended up writing a .c file with «unsigned long foo() { unsigned long x; asm volatile("mov %%fs:0x70, %0" : "=r"(x)); return x; }» and compiling it to a .so and pulling it in with LD_PRELOAD and calling «print foo()» within GDB 20:51:46 bit roundabout although I'm very pleased with myself 20:54:06 You could probably write a macro, I've seen some quite hairy gdb macros. 20:54:35 how would it work though? 20:54:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:55:26 -!- wlee23 has joined. 20:56:55 Hrm. I guess you can't get the segment bases in any sensible way. 20:57:27 you could force the traced process to call arch_prctl(ARCH_GET_FS) 21:09:26 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:10:23 -!- wlee23 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:12:19 "“I had a sex dream about an autistic kid last night. #fml.".. are people offended by the 'kid', by the '#fml'... or just at the notion of sex with an autistic person? 21:12:50 Because if it's the latter, that's kind of offensive, to suggest that autistic people shouldn't have sex 21:13:00 yeah 21:13:11 i interpreted it as the "fml" 21:13:16 or perhaps the kid 21:13:19 but i'm missing the context here 21:13:31 'autistic kid' connotes someone who's not "high-functioning" and probably not capable of consent, to me, at least in that context 21:13:40 kmc: some PR person tweeted something offensive recently, and that quote was another tweet from earlier people got offended about 21:14:02 there's this reporter(??) who got suspended for tweeting something like "i'm going to Africa, hope i don't get aids, oh wait i'm white" 21:14:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:14:15 oh 21:14:18 http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/12/upper_level_pr_exec_tweets_that_she_is_going_to_africa_hope_i_don_t_get.html 21:14:40 -!- wlee23 has joined. 21:15:13 -!- wlee23 has quit (Client Quit). 21:15:21 yeah i don't see why you'd be offended by someone's dreams. presumably they have no control over such things. (on the other hand, why would you tweet your sex dreams?) 21:15:48 I may have made mention of some of my sexual dreams online 21:16:09 sgeo please stop 21:16:24 it's up to her who she wants to have sex with but saying in public that people in this or that group are unfuckable is an asshole move 21:17:08 i have definitely talked about sex dreams in #esoteric 21:19:40 i have this cool thing going where a) i'm a rich white guy b) i work in an industry with v. low standards for personal conduct c) i'm nobody and nobody really cares what i say 21:19:55 so i can talk about all kinds of embarassing things and it's fine 21:21:14 I think it's more along the lines of like, 99% of the time a privileged person talks about having sex with it's basicaly always either insulting or fetishization or some mix <.< 21:22:54 yeah 21:24:09 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:26:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 21:26:57 so I've been learning about the big personalities in the webcomic world. 21:27:32 * oerjan is starting to wonder exactly how rich kmc is. 21:27:50 I think a very exciting reality show could be created just by putting them all in one room 21:28:21 kmc actually owns Bike, shachaf and Gracenotes_ 21:28:37 to be clear, I think it's a good thing that I won't be fired for talking about sex dreams in #esoteric, but I don't think that should extend to racism sexism ableism etc. 21:29:03 you... think you should be fired for those things 21:30:04 if I act that way in public yeah, depending on circumstances 21:30:48 how far does 'public' extend 21:30:49 oerjan: well I have a job so I feel pretty well off by the standards of the new american economy 21:31:11 fancy 21:31:26 Phantom_Hoover: i dunno I don't really feel like getting into this in depth 21:31:34 ok 21:33:42 why are there 3 different incompatible systems for rating HVAC filter effectiveness 21:36:30 @google HVAC 21:36:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVAC 21:36:31 Title: HVAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 21:36:41 lambdabot: why thank you lambdabot 21:36:59 where's metasepia when you need it 21:37:18 @google HVAC definition 21:37:19 No Result Found. 21:37:37 @wn HVAC 21:37:38 No match for "HVAC". 21:37:52 kmc: it's because there's no such thing hth 21:38:15 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:41:38 oerjan: heating and central air 21:42:15 that poor peripheral air gets no love 21:42:46 -!- ^v has joined. 21:43:41 Phantom_Hoover: he only has a lease on me! ...ok, no, i had a lot of debts ok 21:43:57 oerjan: sure it does. i know plenty of folks and businesses with window units. 21:44:06 well it is not uncommon for bikes to be owned anyway 21:46:07 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:46:13 if kmc owns me p. sure he's obligated to fix me when i'm broken 21:46:16 like right now 21:47:30 shachaf: did you try sleeping? hth 21:47:38 yes hth 21:48:09 hth 21:48:46 kmc: Things like Klingon aren't the only things not available in Unicode. Also some of the characters (including control characters) from the Commodore 64 and other computers. (All of the PC characters are available, though.) 21:49:47 well, shit, shut it all down 21:52:36 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:55:05 shachaf: a dual killed galois, you know 21:56:04 @quote galois 21:56:05 sclv says: Q: Why are the adjunctions of Galois connections backwards? A: He never got the hang of duals. 21:56:16 :3 21:56:20 honk 22:07:58 -!- tromp_ has joined. 22:11:10 -!- conehead has changed nick to conehead_. 22:12:14 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:12:38 -!- wlee23 has joined. 22:12:59 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:13:48 -!- Guest80779 has changed nick to _46bit_. 22:15:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:16:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:18:10 Today I found my favorite idea for a possible language. 22:18:25 Final Fantasy, where you have to code 200 lines before your program STARTS to have meaning. 22:19:12 that's in interesting esolang idea even without the refrence 22:19:17 *reference 22:21:02 isn't that fairly common depending on your interpretation 22:23:42 It's on the website, I stumbled upon it. 22:23:49 Haha, and yeah that is true. 22:24:00 anyway, y'all take care, I'm off to see Frozen. 22:25:19 -!- wlee23 has quit (Quit: https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwtqOc7l3gJkXIrqQ9aqc_5SuyF3V4TOltgZm8s3TMd9h_ZOb1). 22:30:32 Anybody know of a synchronization tool similar to rsync but with a source cache so it can avoid communication with the destination whatsoever if the source hasn't changed? 22:36:01 http://mashable.com/2013/12/21/gogo-justine-sacco/ 22:39:57 that's not a synchronisation tool Sgeo_ 22:51:22 * oerjan suddenly has this idea that someone should invent a drug that makes you forget which people are acceptable joke targets. then put it in the water supply across the northern hemisphere. 22:52:06 come to think of it, that might end up as a prelude to another remake of On the Beach. 22:53:57 or maybe a james bond movie. 22:54:14 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 22:56:03 or perhaps a drug that makes you find _all_ jokes offensive. 22:56:41 oh, why not both. 22:57:51 you don't need to put the latter joke into the chinese water supply though, it wouldn't make a difference anyhow. 22:57:56 oops 22:57:58 *drug 22:58:18 putting jokes into the water supply really waters them down. 22:58:32 true fact. 22:58:37 makes the water taste funny though 22:59:22 hurrrrrr. 23:00:26 is it bad when your main prejudice against an ethnicity is that they're ridiculously sensitive 23:00:50 (hi swedes, chinese) 23:05:08 are swedes ridiculously sensitive? 23:05:19 (the difference is that the chinese are sensitive about themselves, while the swedes are sensitive about everyone else) 23:05:48 ah, right 23:06:44 the swedish press would certainly make it seem that way at least 23:06:54 I think they're trying to pit the overly sensitive half against the people who get outraged how people can be so overly sensitive and get offended by silly stuff 23:08:20 sounds profitable. also: timbuktu. 23:08:47 are swedes ridiculously sensitive? 23:08:48 yes 23:08:57 everyone is always asking me, "why do you hate the swedes" 23:09:07 -!- JM_329 has joined. 23:09:07 oerjan: there was some sort of controversy involving him, right? do you know what it was about? 23:09:11 as though i need a justification 23:09:26 olsner: no i don't remember 23:09:31 also oerjan that cake incident indicates otherwise 23:09:43 which cake 23:09:57 Phantom_Hoover: do you hate the swedes? 23:09:59 Hello 23:10:12 olsner, i don't hate you, you are the one exception 23:10:13 `wehlcome JM_329 23:10:14 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wehlcome: not found 23:10:20 `thanks Phantom_Hoover 23:10:21 Thanks Oerjan 23:10:21 Thanks, Phantom_Hoover. Thantom_Hoover. 23:10:23 my theory is that you were abducted from finland or norway at birth 23:10:42 `WeLcOmE JM_329 23:10:45 Jm_329: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: . (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 23:11:02 My I know the topic, please? 23:11:53 it's right there in HackEgo's response. although i guess it's a bit heavy on the CamelCase. 23:12:24 it's about esoteric programming languages 23:12:38 we should really put that in the topic, but people prefer jokes for some reason 23:12:39 Okay...thanks Ais523 23:12:46 `pastlog development and deployment 23:12:53 -!- JM_329 has quit (Client Quit). 23:13:17 No output. 23:13:20 `pastlog development and deployment 23:13:33 2008-06-18.txt:00:01:28: -!- oklofok changed the topic of #esoteric to: The coolest ever international hub for esoteric programming language design, development and deployment | http://esolangs.org/ | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric 23:14:14 ais523: i thought the welcome message was based on that old topic 23:14:25 it is 23:14:35 but you can't read it in the stupid welcomes 23:14:44 I think for new people, we should stick to the standard `welcome 23:15:35 It should say "development" rather than "deployment". 23:15:45 What does it even mean to deploy an esoteric programming language? 23:16:05 fungot: you're deploying befunge, right? 23:16:06 oerjan: i don't watch too many videos at home, somebody remind me to update my development platform, but hey, it's fun 23:16:22 * oerjan swats function for tab-shadowing -----### 23:16:23 :t repeat 23:16:24 a -> [a] 23:16:41 we should really put that in the topic, but people prefer jokes for some reason 23:17:01 we must never forget the importance of being unflinchingly humourless 23:17:19 seriously, though, it's basically impossible to use this channel for its intended purpose any more 23:17:27 and I consider social channels mostly uninteresting 23:17:45 -!- jaydubzy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:17:58 http://www.mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/papers/qlambdabook.pdf 23:23:56 -!- JM780 has joined. 23:24:43 hello JM780 23:24:43 -!- JM780 has quit (Client Quit). 23:24:51 goody JM780 23:34:42 ais523, I've found that when someone starts discussing esolangs everyone else normally follows 23:35:18 Taneb: no, like one person normally follows, for like 5 minutes :-( 2013-12-23: 00:00:43 oerjan: :) 00:07:56 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:21:08 -!- conehead has joined. 00:29:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:35:11 ais523: esolang esolang Esolang. esolang? 00:42:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:50:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:52:20 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:07:18 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:41 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:15:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:16:53 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:27:51 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds). 01:30:50 -!- realzies has joined. 01:59:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:03:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:07:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:17:39 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:57:54 -!- conehead has joined. 03:01:40 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 03:02:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:08:13 -!- Edward___ has joined. 03:09:59 -!- Edward___ has left. 03:17:30 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 03:19:50 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 03:20:53 -!- Sellyme has joined. 03:21:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 03:21:54 -!- conehead has joined. 03:24:03 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 03:36:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:42:39 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 03:49:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:14:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:16:28 -!- Bike has joined. 04:24:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:25:21 -!- Bike has joined. 04:37:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 04:38:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:41:43 -!- Edward___ has joined. 04:42:06 LinearInterpol: Hey! Just finished the groundwork for my brainfuck compiler! 04:43:01 Wonderful! 04:43:27 Edward___: Have you compiled anything with it yet? 04:43:53 Well, by groundwork I mean: I've gotten the File IO stuff taken care of with C (which I'm still shaky with) 04:44:07 So I can pass two arguments, one for the text file, one for the output c file. 04:44:21 Good! 04:44:35 File I/O in C is always nasty imho. 04:44:47 And, it works! Now I'm working on the actual reading of information from the first file, clearly. Can write to second file, but reading is, well, nasty. 04:45:43 When I've finished, I'll put it on Github, if you'd like to see if you can help clean it up, please! 04:45:57 Excellent, I'd be happy to! :) 04:47:09 Great, I've only been working for about twenty minutes, I'll see what I can do before I knock out tonight. I'll stay on the channel in case I finish early. 04:48:02 Ever vigilant is the programmer, armed with his knowledge of code. I wish you the best of luck. :) 04:48:16 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:48:30 is that why everyone just idles 04:48:41 also singular they ftw 04:49:05 "When you do, what do you?" is very sofe du phil 04:49:46 isn't it just 04:50:07 I like reading it when I log on haha 04:50:11 I giggle, then think 04:50:30 Y u do what do you do? 04:51:21 has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like 04:51:28 Edward___: i like you, who are you? 04:51:37 are you the usual one 04:51:49 Bike: there is a full 20 page continuation of that I shit you not. 04:52:19 oklopol: He joined yesterday. 04:52:23 is there a usual edward 04:53:02 there are a few haskell-edwards 04:53:03 so in france i was talking to some people and i saw this poster on some logic that has call/cc and i said "ooh what's that now" and forgot the people existed 04:53:12 oh right, edwardk 04:53:17 yeah that usual edward 04:53:26 logic that has call/cc = classical logic? 04:53:45 what do you mean by classical logic? 04:53:56 heh 04:54:08 and i don't know in what sense any logic has call/cc 04:54:23 the poster was not very specific :( 04:54:26 logic with call/cc is equivalent to classical predicate logic or some shit like that i think 04:54:29 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:54:38 you guys have so much to teach me 04:54:54 ha ha 04:55:20 Bike: that'd be more helpful if i knew what "logic" means 04:55:27 -!- preflex has joined. 04:55:30 formal logic? 04:55:44 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:55:47 -!- mauke_ has joined. 04:56:15 "The Curry-Howard correspondence between proofs and programs relates call/cc to Peirce's law." 04:56:19 says wikipedia 04:56:22 I am a new Edward, hence the double underscore 04:56:24 oklopol: classical logic is the kind with ¬¬p → p 04:56:26 you guys knew this and never told me? :( 04:56:43 I joined last night, and LinearInterpol has mentored me ever since hahaha 04:56:45 i can't tell how serious anyone's being right now, help 04:56:49 oklopol: type systems give you constructive logic by default but the type of call/cc is Peirce's Law and adding that as an axiom to a constructive logic makes it classical 04:57:55 Bike: totes. 04:58:15 kmc: oh. 04:58:28 that sounds awesome 04:58:51 i only know peirce's law from reading metamath 04:58:51 ｈｅｌｐ 04:59:13 to prove (p ∨ ¬p), make a baseless assertion that ¬p, but also capture the current continuation. if somebody calls BS on your claim by providing a witness for p, use the continuation to go back in time and say that p was true all along 04:59:16 i think there's a decent chance i would actually like reading peirce directly, hmmmmm 04:59:41 gotta learn me some abduction 04:59:57 -!- mauke_ has changed nick to mauke. 05:00:24 kmc: ooh would like to see some detail on that 05:00:28 * oklopol takes pants off 05:00:31 :O 05:00:36 that got weird 05:00:46 probably ripe for esolangs too reall y 05:00:55 sorry 05:01:00 ... i like weird 05:01:10 anyway uh i don't have that much more detail... I could write out a term with the right type in Haskell's Cont monad, given enough time, but I probably won't 05:01:19 maybe someone else can do it or find it in the logs 05:02:17 I guess I should also prove that ∀p. ¬¬p → p is equivalent to ∀p. (p ∨ ¬p) maybe 05:02:41 i should think that's more well known 05:02:50 i think i should first try to recall how peirce's law works 05:03:06 i mean iirc i was able to find it obvious last time i looked 05:03:14 but it took some time 05:04:20 not that it's needed for understanding how it corresponds to call/cc prolly, if indeed it's the type of it 05:04:43 so ((p -> q) -> p) -> p 05:04:50 why is that the type of call/cc? 05:05:09 Wit 05:05:11 wait* 05:05:20 :t callCC 05:05:21 MonadCont m => ((a -> m b) -> m a) -> m a 05:05:21 This is all predicate logic from discrete math 05:05:31 jk Monads are wholly different. 05:05:58 i have no idea why callCC has that type, of course. 05:06:01 Anyway, guys... I found something worse than hating yourself for missing a semicolon from not paying attention 05:06:21 Bike: thank you for joining us stupids :) 05:06:25 Forgetting to add a semicolon on a file that you're creating with a program from not paying attention... 05:06:38 i don't even know what MonadCont is 05:06:50 Nesting problems makes them more annoying 05:06:51 i think it's just a typeclass for Cont because I don't know? HASKELL 05:06:56 :P 05:07:03 yeah because you might have a monad transformer stack with ContT in it somewhere 05:07:12 anyway so callcc takes a function that returns a thingie, i got that much 05:07:20 Bike: well a continuation has type (a → ⊥) because you call it and it doesn't return 05:07:21 and that function takes a function that takes a non-thingie and makes a thingie out of it 05:07:33 which.. i guess is the continuation, ok. 05:07:37 and that's sort of like (∀b. a → b) 05:08:00 What is a "non-thingie"? 05:08:06 a value not in the cont monad. 05:08:18 LinearInterpol: update, got the reading working. I'll be done in just a little, hopefully. 05:08:19 somebody's probably having a heart attack from my use of wordes 05:08:28 so call/cc calls a function of type (∀b. a → b) → a, i.e. passing a continuation as the argument, and the function can also return an 'a' normally 05:08:34 right ok, makes sense 05:08:42 and it can also call the continuation on an a and that returns it right off 05:08:48 and uh you can hoist the ∀ out to top level because *handwave* 05:08:50 from the, callcc thing. 05:09:01 actually I remember encountering a situation where I wanted the rank-3 callCC with the ∀ inside 05:09:09 but it's usually good enough to have it on the outside 05:09:17 Law of excluded middle continuations can be made too, similar to how kmc described above 05:09:21 Well, you can always instantiate it with Void. 05:09:40 and use void elimination wherever I need to use it polymorphically? yeah good point 05:09:44 I called it "lemCC", though, rather than whatever the proper name is (if there is one) 05:09:49 (is that elimination or introduction? i can never keep 'em straight) 05:10:16 Elimination, I guess, since you're consuming it. 05:11:06 om nom nom 05:11:44 Is there a more proper name for such a thing? lemCC :: Either a (a -> Cont r b) 05:11:46 kmc: what element of a does it return? 05:11:58 does what return 05:11:58 the one coming off the continuation... never? 05:12:03 erm 05:12:11 i mean the call of the function with the current continuation 05:12:18 zzo38: Well, that's uninhabited in Haskell. 05:12:20 i'm so confuzzled 05:12:27 i'm thinkin a this like scheme because ha ha haskell 05:12:39 call/cc takes a "continuation" which we pretend is a function from things to bottom 05:12:48 er, it takes a function that takes a continuation 05:12:57 You can always make a continuation a separate type rather than pretending it's a function. 05:13:00 and the function can also just never call the continuation, returning normally 05:13:15 also i don't know what (∀b. a → b) actually means 05:13:34 shachaf: but then it wouldn't look like peirce's law? or something?? i only know peirce from like mapmaking and shit 05:14:01 oklopol: it can return a value of any possible type i think? and the only value that fits that is bottom 05:14:08 or undefined w/e types values fuck fuck fuck 05:14:30 Bike: OK, fine. 05:15:01 does it mean it has all possible types? is that the same as saying it has both types a -> int and a -> string, since int \cap string is empty? 05:15:02 there's so much backlog/scrollback/whatever is it worth reading 05:15:20 shachaf: it only goes back like ten minutes 05:15:21 oklopol: There's no real notion of \cap of types. 05:15:27 Bike: yes but y'all talk so much 05:15:50 ok five screens, and that's on my ridiculous x600 screen 05:15:53 well i guess the intersection of two types should always be empty 05:15:57 if they are not the same 05:16:24 so can you have a function with both types a -> int and a -> string? 05:16:24 ok what's the question at hand here 05:16:31 callCC 05:16:34 oklopol: Yes, using polymorphism. 05:16:41 the a -> m b part particularly 05:16:52 If you have a function of type (forall b. a -> b), it means the caller can pick what b is. 05:16:54 but you cannot have something of type (∀b. a → b) using polymorphism? 05:17:01 You can. 05:17:09 Of course, such a type is uninhabited in Haskell. 05:17:14 But you can express the type. 05:17:22 shachaf: Correct that is because I made a mistake. 05:17:27 Bike: Well, it might be clearer to pretend you had first-class callCC. 05:17:31 Wait, it's uninhabited? What's the continuation then 05:17:32 It should be: Cont r (Either a (a -> Cont r b)) 05:17:32 why is it uninhabited? because it should work also for empty b? 05:17:35 That is what I meant 05:17:37 I.e. ccc :: ((a -> b) -> a) -> a 05:17:38 and what's first class call cc gosh 05:17:41 oh. 05:17:46 No "m"s to get in the way. 05:17:57 Then you can figure out the ms later. 05:18:09 how's it uninhabited though 05:18:29 Well, (forall b. Int -> b) means that you give me an Int and I give you something of any type you like. 05:18:39 But some types are uninhabited, so obviously I can't do that. 05:18:39 :t \x -> undefined 05:18:40 t -> a 05:18:42 OK, fine. 05:18:48 ok, good 05:18:50 Uninhabited if you ignore _|_. 05:18:57 (It is still a mistake because it should be ContT and that stuff, but hopefully now is understandable) 05:19:00 But the function itself isn't bottom, riht? 05:19:30 I mean, is forall b. a -> b a roundabout way of saying a function with a bottom return type, or what. 05:19:44 i should really stop conflating bottom and undefined, huh 05:20:01 " Uninhabited if you ignore _|_." and isn't this value exactly why the type is useful, if you can then do continuation stuff with this sort of type? 05:20:02 well, don't confuse the type ⊥ with the value ⊥ (which is a member of every type) 05:20:10 that's what i meant right 05:20:26 The type _|_ and the value _|_ have almost nothing to do with each other. 05:20:28 if you have the value ⊥ in all the types in your language then your logic is unsound for actual logic 05:20:28 okay what Bike said i guess 05:20:31 ...oh, i see. 05:20:33 They're both minimal in two different (semi)lattices. 05:20:34 because you can use that value to prove any proposition 05:20:37 the type bottom doesn't have the value bottom in it 05:20:43 It does in Haskell. 05:20:45 Edward___: Sorry, was AFK. Awesome, now the next step is to parse it. :) 05:20:51 * Bike flips a table over 05:20:59 ok ok ok look 05:21:06 haskell is bad for logic 05:21:13 mad as hell and i'm not going to take it any more 05:21:23 every type has an extra inhabitant representing non-termination or whatever 05:21:25 called _|_ 05:21:29 gonna start a stupid ass tv show where i just yell pointlessly at everything 05:21:32 Is it cheating if I use the translations that Wikipedia provides? 05:21:37 nah 05:21:40 nah. 05:21:43 Great. 05:21:47 Almost done then ;) 05:21:48 let x = x in x, or undefined, or whatever are all considered equivalent and we call them all _|_ 05:22:16 actually looking at a value of type _|_ is equivalent to your program going into an infinite loop (and/or crashing, whatever) 05:22:19 Edward___: Tip: if on a unix system, have an option to write to standard output. 05:22:29 Instead of just a .c file. 05:22:31 but when we talk about haskell as logic we pretend _|_ doesn't exist because it makes it nice 05:22:36 That way you can pipe it directly into GCC. 05:22:46 does the curry-howard isomorphism for haskell's types work if you say a type is true if it contains a non-bottom value 05:22:55 so for the purpose of this entire discussion we'll pretend the value _|_ (undefined, infinite loops, whatever) doesn't exist 05:22:57 starting to think talking about logic in haskell might, in fact, be kind of silly?? 05:23:12 talking is fine because you can play pretend 05:23:24 implementing is p. bad, which is why haskell isn't a theorem proving system 05:23:26 yeah but then why not use something that isn't haskell. 05:23:40 because you already kind of know haskell and it's good enough at expressing all these concepts 05:23:41 LinearInterpol: Great idea. I'll implement it tomorrow though, I need sleep haha. For now I'll just do the C file. 05:23:47 wait, was that my fault? maybe it was me who brought up call c c 05:23:51 the function 05:23:54 there was a language derived from haskell that wasa theory proving system. 05:23:59 *was a 05:24:08 are you thinking of agda 05:24:15 I believe so, yes. 05:24:22 agda is good and you can get many useful haskell intuitions from it 05:24:26 but imo let's stick with haskell 05:24:27 that there dependent types language. 05:24:41 then again it was me who asked and i don't know haskell :( 05:24:53 Is LinearInterpol actually = oklopol? 05:25:01 no love for the *pol 05:25:09 everyone. everyone thinks that. 05:25:25 yeah i say all the _really_ stupid stuff with my other nick. 05:25:26 LinearInterpol: maybe you should change your nick 05:25:34 to what, CubicCIA? 05:25:36 to RJones or something 05:25:40 RJones is good to 05:25:42 o 05:25:43 o 05:25:44 okoko 05:25:47 okokokokoko 05:25:48 ANWAY 05:25:49 Y 05:25:49 screw that, I'm keepin' this. 05:25:54 lul i have to go to work 05:25:58 see u. 05:26:03 ok who actually wants to me to talk about this thing 05:26:06 if anyone 05:26:12 if(anyone){} 05:26:14 me, but we can do that later. 05:27:58 isn't it like five am in france 05:28:07 i'm in finland already 05:28:16 isn't it like five am in finland 05:28:20 it's 7:30 here and 6:30 in france 05:28:26 fuckers 05:29:02 like all mathematicians who can work whenever the fuck they like, i wake up at 6 every morning 05:29:15 (and usually wank around here for an hour asdkfj) 05:29:25 what's it like being compltely incompreensible 05:29:56 it takes a practise but is worth. 05:30:01 pfft. 05:30:05 6 AM? 05:30:10 try 3. 05:30:21 oh yeah well i wake up at ten... pm 05:30:24 i used to, but life got in the way 05:30:28 :( 05:30:30 Bike: that's responsible. 05:30:33 srs. 05:30:40 wow that's early 05:30:42 should be going to sleep soon in fact so i ccan wake up on time 05:30:45 put us all in our place 05:30:48 see you in half an hour 05:30:52 yep 05:30:54 byes. 05:30:55 sweet dreams. 05:31:06 had to put my family up in a hotel. 05:31:12 freakin' ice storm. 05:33:09 I live in Southeastern USA. 05:33:11 what's snow? 05:33:42 snow is a filthy demon that we have to fight back with shovels and beards. 05:33:45 mostly beards. 05:33:54 we don't have those here in the Bible Belt. 05:33:58 those belong to the Devil. 05:33:59 ;) 05:34:02 I chortled. 05:34:06 "Bible Belt" 05:34:26 It's the worst place to be an Agnostic... 05:34:33 God help you. 05:34:33 and my mother is a pastor :) 05:34:36 (Oh wait..) 05:34:43 ha. 05:34:43 look up. 05:35:10 my brother's an Atheist, at least she can say "Edward's just having doubts" 05:35:18 pff. 05:35:35 Issue, my Terminal won't open after crashing it after an infinite loop... 05:35:45 Ctrl+C! 05:35:49 Ctrl+C damnit! 05:36:07 hm? 05:36:22 You could always kill it from MacOS' task viewer. 05:36:30 *MacOS's. 05:36:32 I'm on Ubuntu 05:36:35 what do? 05:36:37 Oh. 05:36:38 Jinkies. 05:36:46 New to Linux 05:36:48 Alt+Left/Right 05:36:50 Log in. 05:36:50 could work fine on Mac lol 05:36:59 Actually... 05:37:01 Kill your term process. 05:37:05 I finished the project. 05:37:12 I just need a bit of tidying. 05:37:19 I'll send it to you tomorrow instead of tonight, okay> 05:37:24 ? 05:37:30 For now, I think I'm off to sleep 05:37:32 Awesome. 05:37:38 Thanks so much! 05:37:41 Rest easy, I think I'll do the same. 05:37:53 Hey, you wrote the code. :) 05:38:04 I have a party at night, so I'll try and catch you in the morning. 05:38:08 What's your timezone? 05:38:18 EST. 05:38:23 It's 12:38am for me. 05:38:26 Okay. great. 05:38:27 Likewise. 05:38:28 Same on. 05:38:35 one*... 05:38:40 The east coast is a cruel bitch. 05:38:52 Depends... Where are you? 05:38:58 Maine. 05:39:08 An ice storm just hit. 05:39:17 Which is.. wonderful. 05:39:20 Ooooh pretty. I'm in Atlanta, so nowhere near as scenic. Or snowy. 05:39:48 At least we don't have any damn bilboards. 05:39:54 hahahaha 05:40:04 Anyway, I'll be on until noon or 1pm, hope to catch you! 05:40:10 Peace. :) 05:40:16 -!- Edward___ has quit (Quit: "Oh no, I'm melting."). 05:40:27 wish I was fucking melting. 05:41:29 Your nick is too long and too capitalized. 05:41:51 "linear" was taken and I don't like RJones. Sue me. 05:42:00 Could always go back to my gamertag. Frostitute. 05:42:57 You could go with "affine". 05:43:04 I guess that's taken. 05:43:09 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to fourier. 05:43:12 damnit. 05:43:23 taken. 05:43:50 -!- fourier has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 05:44:09 Or you could just go with "oklopol". 05:44:21 I don't get that. 05:44:34 Oh, you could go with "relevant". 05:44:44 That's even more obscure than "affine"! 05:45:20 And not taken. 05:45:23 And always relevant. 05:46:08 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to relevant. 05:46:12 son of a bitch it isn't taken. 05:46:21 'tis now. 06:09:15 -!- relevant has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:48:24 -!- noooodl has joined. 06:52:48 As it turns out I did find some mistakes (and omissions) in this dream.txt file; I typed "isomorphic" but I meant "isometric" and fixed it; also some things I omitted before, I added in, and so on. 07:07:08 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:08:56 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8731765/Pictures%20and%20video/Glimpses%20of%20reality/don%27t%20do%20it.jpg it's cool how domain specific languages always seem to be esolangs 07:10:23 Is there an esolang that involves stupid ownership information 07:11:55 Bike: Do they? Well, even in esolang wiki there is information about prehistory of esoteric programming, and Dada Engine is mentioned on Wikipedia as an example too but I am not so sure. However, one thing that is mentioned on esolang wiki, is Automouse. 07:12:36 Bike: And what is the program in the picture? 07:13:34 Furthermore, what operations is the error message refering to? 07:13:41 Jafet: ownership information? 07:16:12 it controls robots, like car manufacturing ones 07:16:17 no idea what it does 07:17:59 well, i guess i can surmise that it's a program to pick up an object and put it down somewhere else. 07:26:19 This looks like the assembly language of the robot 07:26:30 (Assembly language of an assembly robot?) 07:28:13 yes 07:31:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:40:07 What programming languages might have their own other smaller programming languages/syntaxes for use with certain commands? 07:40:22 C 07:40:42 (printf) 07:40:57 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 07:41:00 Yes, that is one example of what I mean too. 07:41:21 C++ adds templating. 07:41:31 for uh some definition of "smaller" i suppose :p 07:41:39 Other things are embedded assembly language codes or SQL codes in some programs. 07:42:39 What other kind of examples are there? I find that in some of my programs it tends to also have additional syntaxes for other purposes built-in too 07:43:18 Maybe the PLAY and DRAW commands in BASIC, kind of are 07:43:40 Many programming languages have regular expressions 07:43:56 I almost feel like every API is an example of this 07:44:03 yeah, it's hard to draw a line. 07:46:50 kmc: Maybe, but some things may be more so or less so than others 07:50:51 -!- prooftechnique has quit. 08:03:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:18:50 -!- mauke has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:19:12 -!- mauke has joined. 08:25:36 kmc: especially the cross-language ones 08:27:42 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:34:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Bye.). 08:39:48 how does one measure time and space efficiency in the lambda calculus? 08:40:15 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:40:48 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 08:41:35 count reduction steps? 08:42:50 You have no reason to believe this sentence. 08:44:38 yeah i do, shachaf doesn't usually lie for no reason 08:45:08 uh 08:45:12 yes he does 08:45:30 you think? 08:45:44 Bike: is that a guess? 08:45:58 maybe it would help if this was conveyed to me in the form of a universially quantified sentence referencing some fucking island 08:46:11 i like islands 08:46:17 did you figure out the callcc business yet 08:46:54 play some god damned billy joel 08:47:27 you can do a haskell exercise if you just want to figure it out by brute force 08:47:40 using ccc :: ((a -> b) -> a) -> a; ccc = undefined 08:47:47 define lem :: Either (a -> Void) a 08:48:35 lem = law-excluded-middle right 08:50:36 yes 08:51:03 -!- noooodl has quit (Quit: noooodl). 08:51:27 "My Name Is Skrillex (Skrillex Remix)" by Skrillex 08:51:47 i want to insult someone by telling them that their actions are poorly conveyed 08:53:57 maybe it's me whose actions are poorly conveyed though 09:02:37 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:39:01 «Once upon a time two boys found a cake. One of them said: “Splendid! I will eat the cake.” The other one said: “No, that is not fair! We found the cake together, and we should share and share alike; half for you and half for me.” The first boy said, “No, I should have the whole cake!” The second said, “No, we should share and share alike; half for you and half for me.” The first said, “No, I want the whole cake.” The ... 09:39:07 ... second said, “No, let us share it half and half.” Along came an adult who said: “Gentlemen, you shouldn’t fight about this; you should compromise. Give him three quarters of the cake.”» 09:39:57 xkcd said we should compromise between pi and tau, and use 1.5pi 09:40:34 or sqrt(2)pi. 09:52:14 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 09:59:56 I'm actually all for Tau 10:00:37 but it's too late 10:00:43 those pi-guys already won the fight. 10:06:46 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:08:20 -!- Froox has joined. 10:09:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:09:18 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:09:40 -!- Jafet has left. 10:11:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:19:57 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 10:20:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:34:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:38:33 Radius is more fundamental than diameter, although diameter is easier to measure in the real world 10:38:45 freefall XD 10:38:48 Mathematics shouldn't be decided by the real world 10:38:59 (it might need context) 10:47:53 oerjan: Heheh, she sure knows how to get things done 10:48:11 Poor guy never stood a chance 10:48:15 indeed 10:50:52 i'm more worried about clippy, he seems to have constructed a perverted zeroth law so might start harming humans. 10:51:11 I am wondering how she's supposed to get out of an arctic compound 10:51:41 tricky. but sam should show up eventually. 10:51:52 What will Sam do about the cold? 10:52:06 Hopefully not something involving flamethrowers 10:52:13 something utterly ridiculous but effective, i expect 10:52:32 Probably 10:52:55 People who don't read freefall have no idea what we're talking about 10:53:02 poor guys 10:56:09 Sam + Florence has proven itself to be a world-shaking combo 11:41:15 -!- carado has joined. 11:50:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:58:11 -!- yorick has joined. 11:59:18 ‘Director of the NSA Gen. Keith Alexander said on “60 Minutes” Sunday that […] people need to be held accountable for their actions.’ http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/17/dod-official-snowden-stole-everything-literally-everything/ 12:09:02 I recently read that a Boy who esentially drove over some people has been found not very guilty due to him "being rich and his parents did not teach him that actions have consequences therefore he could not have known better" 12:13:37 -!- Jafet has joined. 12:44:51 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:50:35 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:08:47 The affluenza thing. 13:10:00 There was also the fund manager who ran over a cyclist and avoided charges because getting convicted would "have some pretty serious job implications for someone in Mr. Erzinger’s profession". 13:10:10 Ran over and fled the scene, that is. 13:10:24 http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/08/wealthy-fund-manager-avoids-felony-charges-running-cyclist/ 13:11:27 (The vague logic is that he can afford to pay restitution only if he doesn't lose his job.) 13:22:22 -!- relevant has joined. 13:31:37 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:32:17 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 13:32:17 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:45:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:46:28 Today's Freefall is great :) 13:49:35 -!- boily has joined. 13:49:36 freefall continues to be not furry at all, nosiree, i see 13:52:38 It has one anthropomorphic wolf 13:56:40 good Québec morning! 13:56:50 ~metar CYUL 13:56:56 hmmm... 13:57:02 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:57:06 ~metar CYQB 13:57:07 CYQB 231330Z 07013G22KT 3SM -SNSG BR DRSN FEW008 OVC029 M09/M11 A3008 RMK SF2SC6 SLP191 13:58:34 -!- conehead has joined. 13:58:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:59:32 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:03:49 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:04:14 Any one have any advice regarding translating some Haskell code that relies on StateT (WriterT []) into Python? 14:06:53 I kind of wrote myself into a hole with that 14:07:18 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:24:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:32:09 You could show us the code 14:32:18 Why are you translating it into Python? 14:33:06 http://lpaste.net/97433 14:33:18 FreeFull, it's for a competition that has to be written in Python 14:33:33 So you wrote it in Haskell? 14:33:50 I think in Haskell 14:34:06 If I had any idea how to write this in Python, I would have written it in Python 14:34:10 Fair 14:34:55 I don't think I can help you 14:40:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:50:13 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:08:18 -!- ^v has joined. 16:00:43 I could maybe help you 16:00:50 If I could Haskell 16:01:09 but that's beyond my Haskell knowledge 16:03:22 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:05:51 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:12:50 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:19:20 -!- metasepia has joined. 16:29:44 -!- atriq has joined. 16:33:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:38:38 -!- relevant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:47:43 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:53:29 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:35:45 -!- relevant has joined. 17:38:12 -!- Edward___ has joined. 17:38:22 Ciao! 17:39:27 Lol. 17:39:30 Leaving so soon? 17:39:32 -!- relevant has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 17:41:02 `relcome Edward___ 17:41:07 ​Edward___: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:41:24 Ciao being "hello" in Italian ;) 17:41:41 And thanks! How to I reserve this name, so I'm not a noob every time I log on? 17:41:45 do* 17:41:48 do we have an Italian `relcome? 17:41:59 Edward___: /msg NickServ HELP REGISTER 17:43:54 Alright, I am permanent! 17:44:43 Also, I don't think an Italian welcome would be of much worth to me, I know far too little ;) 17:44:44 :D 17:44:57 bonjourno, Edward___ 17:45:42 E 'dopo mezzogiorno! 17:45:47 ;) 17:46:07 (I don't speak Italian, I'm afraid) 17:47:03 It's after noon! 17:47:13 No matter 17:47:27 At least for my timezone... 17:47:54 So buongiorno works 17:47:58 Mine neither 17:48:22 as always, someone on Earth is partaking in a delicious fternooner. 17:48:56 boily: four simultaneous fternooners on a single rotation of the fternooner cube 17:50:59 LinearInterpol: I'm debugging the code.. 17:51:05 just started working on it. 17:52:55 Edward___: You write it first then you debug it? 17:54:37 I'm having issues with a loop 17:54:42 So I'm trying to get that figured out 17:54:47 Pastebin whatever your errors are. 17:54:50 And make it less...ugly... 17:54:57 Never! I must do it myself :) 17:55:00 Hehe. 17:55:29 A real challenge is to never use GDB until it compiles cleanly with -Wall -Werror --pedantic -std=c89 17:55:38 Then go chasing segfaults. 17:55:52 what's GOB? 17:56:02 GDB. GNU DeBugger. 17:56:06 Oh oh oh 17:56:14 Okay, I haven.t 17:59:40 Is there a special end of line marker? 18:00:00 My code isn't properly reading the file, throwing an error when it hits the end of a line, before going to the next. 18:00:09 I know there's EOF 18:01:47 EOL? 18:02:02 There's a character for it iirc. 18:02:18 EOF is system-specific. 18:02:21 That'w what I figured. 18:02:31 Man. I can't type today. Need coffee. 18:02:37 EOLs are also system-specific 18:02:41 Yep. 18:02:46 Doesn't ASCII have a specific EOF character? 18:02:50 Like in the control characters 18:02:53 also yes 18:02:58 I'm pretty sure you can just use EOF 18:03:55 But I may be wrong. Just started using C 18:04:37 The standard C macro EOF, and the ASCII control character EOF don't have all that much to do with each other. 18:04:49 How disappointing 18:04:55 Where is the ASCII EOF used? 18:04:56 EOF is treated as -1. 18:05:18 EOT? 18:05:35 I think some Windows context (streams open in text mode?) treats the ASCII EOF character as an actual end-of-file. 18:06:06 Fucking a. 18:06:12 I can just use '/n' 18:06:24 Nevermind all. 18:06:28 You can use \n. 18:06:38 Yes, that's the one haha 18:06:45 Once again, haven't had coffee yet. 18:06:53 Hrm, I guess the actual official ASCII name for ^Z is "SUB", but it's pretty often called EOF anyway. 18:07:20 \n is EOL. 18:07:38 traditionally, anyway. Microsoft has alternate EOL chars. 18:08:06 last I checked. 18:08:14 If you're reading a text stream in C, it will translate whatever line-ending mechanism the system uses to what '\n' evaluates to. 18:08:20 Correct. 18:09:54 (It doesn't need to be a particular character at all. I think at least VMS had a more record-structured standard text file format. 18:11:03 If I'm printing a printf statement onto a file, to print a character... 18:11:30 does fprintf(outf,"printf(\"\%c\",*ptr);\n"); 18:11:33 work? 18:11:49 No. 18:11:59 I tried putchar, but that didn't work. 18:12:02 But fprintf(outf,"printf(\"%%c\",*ptr);\n"); would. 18:12:07 oooooh 18:12:09 thanks! 18:13:04 (You can't escape the % with a \, because \ is a string-literal-level construct, while you want to affect the behaviour of printf, which doesn't see the backslashes at all.) 18:13:12 Hm, same output as putchar. I need to do some work with data types... 18:13:22 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:14:12 printf("%c", x) should be pretty close to putchar(x), yes. 18:14:35 I'm getting obscure symbols, and not the letters I want. 18:14:37 Why would this be? 18:15:13 Incidentally, since you don't have any actual formatting going on, fputs("printf(\"%c\",*ptr);\n", outf); would've been a slightly easier way to write that printf statement. 18:15:36 fungot: What do you think, why the obscure symbols? 18:15:36 fizzie: the whole point is that they are all delicately different languages so no surprise prolly does several tests starting saturday. 18:17:41 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:18:49 (Hard to say much more than that without any further details.) 18:19:10 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:19:57 LinearInterpol: I'm getting "r????2?????3(something weird), when it should say "Hello World" 18:20:10 does this have to do with text encoding? or just something wrong with data types. 18:20:29 Edward___: you're communicating with the Elder Ones. nothing to worry about. 18:20:40 hahaha 18:20:56 Code, please. 18:21:11 How would you like it sent? 18:21:24 Pastebin 18:21:42 Edward___: Your nick is really awful. :-( Can you pick something not so underscorey? 18:21:48 Okay one sec, I'll have to log off really quickly. 18:21:58 shachaf: and yes, I'll change it in a bit ;) 18:21:58 No no! 18:21:59 Reading a conversation between you and LinearInterpol especially is painful. 18:22:09 Type /nick 18:22:16 shachaf: I think you have to blame three other Edwards for that. 18:22:21 -!- Edward___ has quit (Quit: "One second..."). 18:22:55 -!- Edward___ has joined. 18:23:14 It didn't ask for my password upon logging in... 18:23:25 Oh god 18:23:30 three underscores. 18:23:47 I need to l2IRC 18:23:49 http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=\b_________[a-z] 18:23:54 typeof(*p) *_________p1 = (typeof(*p)*__force )ACCESS_ONCE(p); 18:24:01 https://bitmonica.com meanwhile, in r bitcoin 18:24:22 (There's an edward, edward_ and edward__ already; hence the three underscores.) 18:24:23 jesus 18:24:23 kmc: that's.. horrifying. 18:24:49 Bike: wait what is this even 18:24:59 Bike: IS THAT KIM POSSIBLE?! 18:25:37 LinearInterpol: http://pastebin.com/VaJjGJGb 18:26:13 Bike, what 18:26:18 Okay, how do I effectively...log in... 18:26:21 i'm so dehydrated 18:26:40 Edward___: /msg NickServ identify 18:26:52 Change your nick to the one you registered with. 18:27:14 three goddamn underscores. 18:27:18 I thought it was only two. 18:27:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:28:22 Bike, context for where you found the link plx 18:28:30 is this literally just a pyramid scheme 18:28:41 no pyramids 18:28:45 i think it's just a ponzi scheme 18:28:55 maybe it's a fonzie scheme 18:29:01 eyyyyyyyy 18:29:07 ~$97k has been invested in this... thing 18:29:08 Phantom_Hoover: someone hacked a site i use to redirect to it 18:29:08 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 18:29:20 Phantom_Hoover: reliable business here 18:29:43 METHODS OF CONTRACEPTION 18:30:42 and yes, it's sexay kim possible art straight from deviantart 18:30:42 Okay, what's the command for changing nicks? One last time, promise. 18:30:43 Bike: p. sure that means you have to invest to get your site back 18:30:52 Edward___: /nick 18:30:55 ah 18:30:56 thanks 18:31:11 Edward___: You don't initialize your array in the generated C code. 18:31:21 -!- Edward___ has changed nick to Edwardz. 18:31:32 It should start with a lowercase letter. 18:31:39 Edwardz: So it will contain random garbage, and after doing the increments and decrements specified by the brainfuck code, it will be some other random garbage. 18:31:41 fizzie: I was following the Wiki page for Brainf**k translation. I'll change that. 18:31:52 Edwardz: char array[100] = {0}; will work. 18:31:54 Your nick, I mean. That's how nicks work. 18:32:02 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:32:16 fizzie: you'd rather use malloc for this. 18:32:18 I like "Edwardz" because there are others. I'm the last. 18:32:53 LinearInterpol: No, I don't think I would. Why would you? 18:32:58 Yes, but "edward", "edward_", "edward__" all have a lowercase e in their nick. 18:33:12 Static allocation for an upwards of 3,000 cells? 18:33:27 100 maybe. 18:33:27 lowercase is lame... 18:34:07 Lowercase is how it goes here. 18:34:09 I got a segfault 18:34:18 when changing to ptr={0}; 18:34:33 Edwardz: array[100] = {0} is quite a different thing than ptr={0}. 18:34:37 Yeah. 18:34:46 array[100] initializes the array's elements to 0. 18:34:48 fuckfuckfuck 18:34:54 did array[00] 18:34:54 ptr={0} is.. well shit. 18:34:59 Lol. 18:35:04 http://datenform.de/forgot-your-password.html also 18:35:11 shachaf: stop making stuff up about nicks 18:35:24 x 18:35:32 s/x/it's just trolling/ 18:35:37 an easy typo 18:36:00 fprintf(outf,"char array[100]={0};\nchar *ptr=array;\n"); 18:36:21 I think it doesn't matter lowercase or uppercase, but, it is case insensitive due to the specification of IRC. 18:37:45 -!- Chillectual has joined. 18:38:05 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:38:08 IT WORKS 18:38:09 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 18:38:15 thanks <3 18:38:26 christ, the power is flickering. 18:38:55 MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1tijj6/paul_krugman_disses_bitcoin_again/ce8dfsv 18:39:06 LinearInterpol: thanks much! 18:39:18 I need to remember to set to {0} if I want it at 0... 18:39:23 Edwardz: pff. fizzie helped you. 18:39:23 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:39:31 fizzie: Thanks to you, too! 18:39:37 Edwardz: bear in mind that that notation is only valid in c99. 18:39:41 thanks to the esolang community ;) 18:40:00 Only c99? Why is that? 18:40:03 damn establishment shills 18:40:10 Just is. 18:40:27 Edwardz: It was introduced in C99. 18:40:32 What would be the new equivalent 18:40:34 ? 18:40:40 C99 is new. 18:40:41 Cool, I can investigate an InvestigationTarget. http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/451782616472490608/1B00D268228AA5AD8C9E9343F793E5A3A12204BA/ 18:40:51 Oh, I thought there was a newer 18:40:53 huh. 18:40:56 There's C11. 18:41:01 But we don't.. we don't talk about that. 18:41:05 .... Gotcha. 18:41:08 What is new in C99? 18:41:30 fizzie: "new" is relative compared to C89. 18:41:38 C99 rocks 18:41:40 No, I mean, what's "that notation"? 18:41:43 {} 18:41:48 Initializers. 18:41:50 That's very untrue. 18:41:51 http://pastebin.com/DNVkKshB 18:42:09 i think the struct initializer = { .foo = 3, .bar = 4 } is new though 18:42:13 before I clean up the code a bit and make it prettier, lighterweight, and add the ',' operator for brainfuck 18:42:20 it's v. convenient b/c it sets the rest to 0 18:42:22 Compound literals are a thing involving {} that are new in C99, and designated initializers too, but basic array initialization is old as bones. 18:42:31 fizzie: The one C99 change i’m probably using the most is for (foo x = …; …; …) etc. 18:42:48 ^ 18:44:02 The code is C99 due to mixed declarations and code, but there's nothing C99 about the initializers. 18:44:22 And not even that in the generated code. 18:45:51 -!- conehead has joined. 18:47:07 fizzie: You are.. correct. Array initializers are in C89, huh. Thought they were added in C99 along with struct initializers. 18:48:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:49:36 Struct initializers are C89 too, just the designators are new. 18:49:56 Yeah. 18:50:00 remember that sometimes 0 is really -1 !!! 18:50:15 wait the only example i can think of is in c++ 18:51:32 I know nothing of c++... Only a bit of time though. 18:53:01 "A bit in time saves nine," they say. 18:54:09 LinearInterpol: How would I turn this into an interpreter? Compile the code, then run the make and ./ commands? 18:54:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:54:51 Edwardz: That's one way, albeit very messy. 18:55:06 How would I do it, then? 18:55:19 So that all you do is run the program, without needing to do anything else? 18:55:54 Replace your "run file" function's code with what you'd generate. 18:57:15 Edit the makefile? 18:57:30 Your .c file. 18:58:22 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:58:37 Oooohhh I see. 18:58:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:58:47 Okay, I'll do that. 18:59:00 But for now, off to hike Stone Mountain, y'all enjoy yourselves! 18:59:08 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:59:16 Peace! 18:59:36 -!- Edwardz has quit. 19:02:19 god what-if's been so boring lately 19:02:51 all the questions are just 'how big is this boring number', not 'how well can you illustrate this ridiculous scenario' 19:11:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:19:36 -!- Tefaj has joined. 19:23:45 -!- yorick_ has joined. 19:25:14 -!- yorick_ has quit (Client Quit). 19:26:07 Some C99 features are also available in GNU89 mode, although some work a bit differently, and some features are different. 19:26:24 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 19:26:24 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 19:26:25 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 19:28:53 -!- yorick has joined. 19:30:40 I happen to like zero-length arrays, which is a GNU feature, and I don't like the flexible arrays. 19:31:05 Why, again? 19:33:11 -!- aloril has joined. 19:33:29 Zero-length arrays are a useful feature, mostly to use at the end of a structure definition, although you don't have to; it can occasionally be useful in the middle or something else instead. 19:34:02 I also think it is more sensible and doesn't require an exception to anything in order to implement. 19:34:28 It is more mathematically elegant. 19:34:47 GNU also supports zero-length structures, which is also just as sensible too, in my opinion. 19:38:48 Empty structures are awesome. 19:39:19 zzo38: Those behave differently in GNU C and GNU C++, don't they? 19:39:36 they do. 19:40:25 shachaf: Yes, I think that is correct. The way they work in C++ is no good in my opinion but if you program in C++ then that is what you use. 19:41:27 shachaf: Since structures are effectively classes with their members set to public by default, empty structures act as empty classes, which is defined by the standard last I checked. 19:42:26 C99 (iirc) was standard that fully defined empty structures for C. 19:42:49 In that they aren't truthfully allowed. 19:44:16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Unicode_Font_Initiative wait, so they have this, but multiocular o is official? 19:44:26 It's been.. a while since I've looked at C99 or C89's standard. 19:44:39 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:45:04 -!- boily has joined. 19:51:06 I have written what I would consider improvement to C standards; these improvements do not require any runtime support (except for some new numeric types, which *might* need it but can be emulated if needed), but much more things are done with macros now. 19:52:41 Including one thing that is kind of like C++ templates, but actually very differently. 19:55:10 The only thing I would use over C is Forth. 19:56:00 I use different programming languages for different purposes. Yes, Forth is good too. 20:00:41 Ay 20:00:52 https://bitbucket.org/mroman_/cobohl 20:01:01 ^- that's what I'm gonna use in the future ;) 20:01:42 hah, nice. 20:02:58 mroman: Might it be better if you also need quotation marks around the AUTHOR and NAME strings? 20:14:15 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:18:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:19:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:20:27 zzo38: Nah 20:20:32 I'll just parse till end of line :) 20:20:44 but I'm probably gonna switch to writing a haskell interpreter for it 20:20:47 that's probably faster 20:20:57 and I get garbage collection for free 20:21:31 and ENTRYPOINT probably belongs into MODULE DIVISION 20:23:26 If I ever have kids 20:23:37 the second name will have a new line in it 20:23:40 Like uhm 20:23:59 Athene Hele\na 20:24:16 or hm 20:24:21 Athene 'Hele\na 20:25:37 -!- conehead has joined. 20:28:35 -!- Tefaj has left. 20:35:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:38:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:40:32 quintopia: quinthellopia. still vacationing under the sun? 21:01:28 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:01:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:04:39 mroman: i think the fashionable thing is like http://xkcd.com/327/ hth 21:04:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:22:28 uhm. is it me, or is CAO currently down? 21:22:48 it's me. can't type a simple 5-letter work. 21:22:50 s/k/d/ 21:23:00 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:23:02 _or_ 4-letter. 21:23:55 also, what is CAO? 21:24:02 crawl.akrasiac.org. 21:24:38 aha 21:26:14 yes. I'm an addict, and I accept that fact. 21:27:17 i implied nothing. 21:29:09 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:30:15 I SELF PROCLAIM MY ADDICTION! 21:30:19 (also, I am sane.) 21:30:36 `? mad 21:30:38 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 21:31:04 I wonder if that's in the original INTERCAL manual 21:31:15 err, the C-INTERCAL Revised manual 21:31:24 one of the revisions was adding Alice in Wonderland quotes at the start of every chapter 21:31:28 and that one seems to fit 21:31:53 ais523: it's in the introduction 21:32:02 right 21:40:39 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:41:14 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:44:46 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:45:05 -!- ^v has changed nick to jacob3. 21:45:09 -!- jacob3 has changed nick to ^v. 21:50:01 :\ 21:50:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:17:27 `run echo $'LET a = 0 + b' | ploki -MO=Deparse 22:17:28 LET a 1 + b \ END 22:18:31 mauke: looks logical 22:18:59 `run echo $'LETa+=c+@NOTc\na_"\nLETc b+@NOTb\nLETb a\nIF' | ploki 22:19:01 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657 \ 46368 \ 75025 \ 121393 \ 196418 \ 317811 \ 514229 \ 832040 \ 1346269 \ 2178309 \ 3524578 \ 5702887 \ 9227465 \ 14930352 \ 24157817 \ 39088169 \ 63245986 \ 102334155 \ 165580141 \ 267914296 \ 433494437 \ 701408733 \ 11349031 22:20:30 `run echo $'LETa+=c+@NOTc\na_"\nLETc b+@NOTb\nLETb a\nIF' | ploki -MO=Deparse 22:20:32 FOR x0 LET a += b + @NOT(b) \ WUNT (a _ "\n") \ LET b c + @NOT(c) \ LET c a \ NEXT x0 22:28:26 what the hell 22:29:25 shachaf: http://heh.fi/tmp/LATIN_SMALL_LIGATURE_IJ.png 22:36:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:42:19 -!- waltom has joined. 22:42:30 -!- nycs has joined. 22:42:38 -!- waltom has left. 22:42:52 -!- waltom has joined. 22:43:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:45:20 -!- waltom has left. 23:02:14 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 23:24:41 -!- augur has joined. 23:25:50 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:26:14 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 23:38:32 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:41:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:52:35 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:52:54 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 23:58:03 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 2013-12-24: 00:10:02 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:10:44 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 00:10:44 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:11:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnity). 00:16:09 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:41:47 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:51:22 -!- tertu has joined. 01:09:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:29:22 kmc: http://slbkbs.org/ramsale.jpg 01:31:54 ion: help 01:32:17 -!- augur has joined. 01:37:22 -!- JM673 has joined. 01:37:49 Hello 01:38:03 -!- JM673 has quit (Client Quit). 01:39:21 hi 01:40:44 shachaf: haha 01:42:25 they have a different number each time.. 01:43:09 sure it's the same person? 01:43:32 well they have similar IPs too 01:43:34 and uh, behavior 01:43:49 it could be the JM Society 01:44:02 which has a computer lab that people use for going into IRC channels and saying hi 01:44:08 with members known only by their numbers 01:44:13 good poitn 01:44:39 I wasn't actually being serious 01:44:44 but it's a possibility, at least 01:45:38 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:54:46 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:11:50 kmc: you know when people make burrito jokes and then it turns out they were only saying them ironically so it's not actually annoying 02:12:09 yeah 02:12:54 such a relief to find that out 02:13:49 i know right 02:20:35 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:21:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:23:10 -!- w00tles has joined. 02:23:51 -!- Bike has joined. 02:48:38 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:53:11 -!- tertu has joined. 03:03:50 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:09:35 -!- w00tles has joined. 03:23:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:23:41 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:24:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:37:55 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:56:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:03:49 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:16:51 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:51:34 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:51:44 -!- mauke has joined. 04:53:31 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:55:06 -!- preflex has joined. 05:22:06 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 05:35:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:07:01 oh hey, turing got pardoned. 06:08:01 living anachronism issues 60 year late non-apology 06:08:19 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 06:10:40 an apology later followed by a pardon 06:11:34 oh i only saw the text of the pardon, which isn't much of an apology 06:12:16 well the apology was a few years ago 06:13:29 there was also http://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/feb/07/alan-turing-pardon-lord-mcnally-lord-sharkey-computers 06:15:38 -!- w00tles has joined. 06:17:51 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 06:18:08 'hullaballoo in the UK' seems like a bit of a downgrade 06:23:33 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:24:46 I played Yomi cards today; I won despite having only one hit point left (my opponent had ten). 06:26:02 I have not played Yomi 06:26:07 I have, however, played Mao with Yomi decks 06:26:37 * Bike gives coppro a penalty card 06:28:55 coppro: You have? Any card game using the standard 52 card deck + jokers can be played with Yomi decks, so that is OK too 06:29:50 I thought he would surely play an attack, and of speed 1.0; I thought I should definitely play a dodge, but I didn't have any dodge, so I thought I should play a 0.6 speed attack, but that is a dragon card and I don't have a dragon form, so I played what I considered best card that I would have, which is 1.2 which might be too slow but might not be, and it ended up being fast enough to beat their 2.2 speed card. 06:30:10 I thought I should definitely play a doge, but I didn't have any doge 06:30:10 My card caused exactly ten damage, as it turned out. (And if the speed was equal, it would be ended in a tie.) 06:30:43 are you aware of the dogscape? 06:31:51 I don't know how common tie games are in Yomi. 06:32:29 I think normally it may be played whoever caused more damage, whoever hit first, or "sudden death" is played, but I prefer, the tie stands if both players have 0 or less current HP at the end of the turn. 06:32:32 Invent the game called "Doge - The Card Game" and "Professional Doge of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) 06:33:12 shachaf: You can try to make up such card games if you like to. 06:33:30 Are you sure they're card games? 06:40:30 shachaf: No. 06:46:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:49:19 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Bye.). 06:52:05 The standard rules also say that in case both players run out of cards in their draw pile and in their hand, whoever has more hit points remaining wins. Such a thing is extremely unlikely. But in such a case, I prefer that the game just continues normally (which usually results in a draw, but if one side is Argagarg then they win; if both sides are, whoever has more hit points wins, unless they differ by no more than one, in which case it is a tie) 06:53:41 copumpkin: привет товарищ 06:53:47 lol 06:53:54 man, I'm exhausted 06:54:00 kmc is speaking crypto 06:54:31 copumpkin: it's unbreakable so you might as well give up 06:54:38 yeah :/ 06:54:54 just imagine it was on pastebin.com and presented by a rude person who kept changing nicks 06:54:57 that good 06:54:59 криптография 06:55:07 shachaf: military grade encryption 06:55:30 is that what you learn in military grade school 06:55:41 ideally 06:55:42 remember that translator guy who referred to russian as a code in strange symbols. such arrogance, wow 06:55:50 copumpkin: did i mention i bought the hott book 06:55:56 oh nice 06:56:00 it arrived today 06:56:02 MDZhB 24 664 NAYeMNICA 34 21 29 93 priyom 06:56:02 it's probably a newer edition than mine :( 06:56:10 i waited until they stopped changing it before ordering it 06:56:16 so it's the sep 20 edition 06:56:22 gesundmc 06:56:27 also i got it in 99% paperback 06:56:30 Bike: hike 06:56:41 99% paper 1% undetectible poison?? 06:56:55 well, as opposed to 1% hardcover like copumpkin can afford 06:56:59 lol 06:57:04 i know it's print-on-demand but it looks and feels just like a real book 06:57:08 ah i see 06:57:10 but it doesn't smell like a new book :'( 06:57:12 print-on-polite-request 06:57:21 I was confused by the 99% thing too 06:57:22 print-on-hug 06:58:08 man, I feel really slow right now 06:58:12 I probably should've slept on the plane 06:58:19 but there were too many obnoxious sleep-detractors 06:58:21 plane whence whither 06:58:57 new york to rome, through moscow 06:59:15 I left the ticket-buying to the last minute 06:59:20 and needed to buy two of them 06:59:26 and aeroflot ended up being cheapest 06:59:38 (sadly still fucking expensive) 06:59:57 i once flew sjc->sea via slc 07:00:20 and also sjc->jfk through lax 07:00:29 but moscow is better 07:02:39 honolulu to moscow via hong kong 07:02:46 copumpkin: should i read the hott book or the Illuminatus! trilogy first 07:17:36 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 07:19:07 -!- w00tles has joined. 07:27:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 07:28:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:29:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:30:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:36:02 -!- Edward___ has joined. 07:36:52 -!- Edward___ has changed nick to Edwardz. 07:43:38 -!- Edwardz has quit. 07:44:50 -!- augur has joined. 08:01:24 old 08:01:24 http://www.kogan.com/au/blog/new-internet-explorer-7-tax/ 08:02:53 jesus that site has like 5 overlay ads 08:03:30 the article is about an overlay ad. 08:03:41 coincidence?? 08:04:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:04:06 petition for a news site that only reports on itself 08:04:23 Can't get the IE7 overlay to appear in Chrome spoofing IE7 08:04:26 But still getting the tax 08:05:22 No tax for IE6 08:05:39 ie6 is a stable, modern browser 08:41:01 If a lot of people make up a lot more levels for Attribute Zone game, then I can make an analysis to figure out how to make a good Huffman encoding and RLE to compress the levels. 08:42:06 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 08:48:42 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:17:48 IDGI. I've disabled the "fast restart" according to all instructions, and do a "shutdown", but this thing's still all "Windows is hibernated, refused to mount. The NTFS partition is in an unsafe state. Please resume and shutdown Windows fully (no hibernation or fast restarting), or mount the volume read-only with the 'ro' mount option." 09:38:35 http://codepad.org/81DO3BJd <- any syntax suggestions? 09:39:06 FOR pushes an element of a list to the stack, executes the contained block and then repeats with the next element 09:39:33 EACH is the same, but it works directly on the list (i.e it collects the top of the stack) 09:40:31 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:40:39 maybe merge PARAMs on one line ... 09:45:18 I think it is OK like that 09:54:44 shachaf: How does one pay $² 3000? 09:55:29 Square-Dollars? 09:55:58 What's the surface area of a dollar? 09:57:23 0.01032256 cm^2 09:57:34 > 3000 / 0.01302256 09:57:36 230369.45116781953 10:06:24 Where did that 0.01032256 cm^2 figure come from? 10:07:05 (It sounds incredibly unlikely for a dollar bill; and very font-and-size-specific for a dollar symbol.) 10:07:11 according to the intarweb that's the surface area of a dollar bill 10:07:18 Well, I'm pretty sure it's not. 10:07:37 Because 0.01 cm^2 is approximately a one-millimetre-per-side square. 10:07:56 yeah 10:08:18 It seems to be in square metres. 10:08:19 ah 10:08:23 I see 10:08:33 I used google to convert inches into meters 10:08:49 16 square inches to square meters 10:08:54 what could go wrong? 10:09:02 16 inches would be 0.4m 10:09:29 Given that it's almost 2014, you could've just asked W|A, you know. 10:09:54 "surface area of dollar" -> "Input interpretation: [ US 1 dollar banknote | area ]" + results in square millimeters, centimeters, meters, feet and inches. 10:10:32 Given that it's almost 2014 some countries could've switched to using the metric system . 10:12:40 so 10:12:44 0.01034m^2 10:13:02 then I wasn't off by much? 10:13:27 Just four orders of magnitude. 10:14:37 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:18:33 hu? 10:18:35 Why? 10:18:45 oh 10:18:49 I type cm^2 10:19:00 10:57 < mroman> 0.01032256 cm^2 10:19:14 ^- I meant meters 10:19:21 *typed 10:33:00 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:33:15 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:40:59 -!- Slereah_ has quit. 10:41:13 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:45:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:01:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:16:52 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:20:20 Merry Christmas! 11:21:49 Ho ho hooo 11:28:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:33:21 merry almost-but-not-quite-officially christmas 11:33:51 @localtime b_jonas 11:33:52 Local time for b_jonas is Tue Dec 24 12:33:51 2013 11:34:17 it's like officially 5PM here 11:34:30 that christmas starts 11:45:01 this is fewer than i expected https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Countries_that_do_not_recognize_Christmas_as_Public_Holiday.png 11:45:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:45:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 11:45:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:46:30 your cloak fools no one, mr. cust765. 11:46:50 wat http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2013/12/wired-world-2014/android-becomes-the-new-linux 11:47:31 nah, Android is the new Windows 11:48:37 maybe they should pull a stallman and insist they call it Android/Linux 11:49:14 good hardware support for its platform, supported by the widest range of developers, somewhat buggy but unusably so, and normally comes preinstalled by default, except by Apple 11:50:24 i think you're missing a "not" in there 11:50:59 err, yes 11:51:04 before "unusably" 11:51:42 -!- clog has joined. 11:52:03 oh no they're unclogging us 11:52:08 I think Linux is the new linux 11:52:32 By which I mean, nothing's particularly changed. 11:52:45 if you're looking for the Linux of mobile phones, I'd go for Meego or something like that 11:52:50 I suppose linux gaming is slightly more feasible 11:52:55 Than it was 5 years ago 11:53:11 wtf is that squeeking sound the neighbors keep making 11:53:15 more than just "slightly", since Valve decided that they were going to support it 11:53:33 having a major developer target an OS improves its chances significantly 11:54:09 I mean, there was always some basis of support for it from game developers 11:54:17 Bioware, for instance, released some of their games for Linux 11:54:27 but the Linux versions were always kind-of obscure 11:55:13 (Bioware's official method of buying the Linux port of Neverwinter Nights was "buy a CD of the windows version, send us the CD key, then you can download it from our website; if you can read the disk then that speeds things up because you won't have to download as much info, but it doesn't matter if you can't" 11:55:19 err, or disc? 11:55:22 hmm 11:55:29 what spelling does the "D" of "CD" use? 11:56:39 Disckq 11:57:36 *+ue 11:58:26 Shiny spinny 11:58:41 Data pizza 11:58:51 Wheel of video game 11:59:00 Discques 11:59:01 Optical plate 11:59:24 Rotating bit cylinder 12:28:50 I've seen the c variant more often. 12:30:16 IEC 60908 is titled "Audio recording - Compact disc digital audio system". 12:30:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:30:46 (And I remember doing the NWN Linux thing, probably by downloading the whole gigabyte-or-two client.) 12:33:54 -!- yorick has joined. 12:39:05 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:39:46 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 12:39:46 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:46:32 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:47:19 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 13:03:47 -!- carado has joined. 13:09:59 Just did that US dialect quize 13:10:17 It narrowed me down to Boston, LA, or Honolulu 13:10:39 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 13:11:37 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:22:45 Given that it's almost 2014, you could've just asked W|A, you know. <-- or he could have given google the right units to convert between. 13:23:45 oh hm i'm not using my brain. nothing new there. 13:23:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:24:54 * oerjan somehow wishes webchat would use a different character for joins and quits, like irssi does. 13:27:48 * oerjan wonders if his touchpad is broken again since it won't scroll; then notices he's at end of page. 13:29:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:46:56 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:47:02 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:49:55 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 13:54:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:55:35 -!- augur_ has joined. 13:56:43 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 13:58:22 -!- int-e_ has joined. 14:00:56 -!- conehead has joined. 14:03:06 -!- monotone_ has joined. 14:06:02 -!- carado has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:02 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:03 -!- nycs has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:03 -!- iamcal has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:04 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:04 -!- monotone has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:05 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:05 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 14:06:36 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:07:02 -!- conehead has joined. 14:08:30 :t from 14:08:31 (Functor f, Profunctor p) => AnIso s t a b -> p t (f s) -> p b (f a) 14:09:41 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:10:54 -!- carado has joined. 14:10:54 -!- iamcal has joined. 14:12:05 -!- mroman has joined. 14:18:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:19:43 -!- ineiros has joined. 14:30:43 -!- Zuu has joined. 14:30:46 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 14:30:46 -!- Zuu has joined. 14:36:57 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 14:37:50 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:41:34 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:41:48 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:42:00 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:42:27 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 14:42:27 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:47:53 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:49:04 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:49:16 -!- mroman has joined. 15:04:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:12:39 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e. 15:17:54 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to polytone. 15:19:33 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:19:57 -!- conehead has joined. 15:24:55 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 15:26:46 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 15:41:43 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:48:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:55:26 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:56:06 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:03:15 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:10:00 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:23:16 -!- conehead has joined. 16:23:30 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:24:16 -!- conehead has joined. 16:30:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:31:12 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:45:57 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:49:50 -!- ^v has joined. 17:17:21 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:43:45 -!- conehead has joined. 18:12:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:15:30 -!- w00tles has joined. 18:15:37 Is it bad that the Doctor Who christmas special has become my favourite thing about Christmas? 18:15:43 -!- w00tles has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:16:04 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 18:16:18 -!- w00tles has joined. 18:17:05 It is 18:17:10 It should be Die Hard 18:17:49 from my point of view, the TV around Christmas tends to be even worse than normal 18:21:05 The next one is almost out 18:25:25 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 18:33:29 -!- ^v has joined. 18:33:50 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:35:16 oerjan: halp 18:35:21 or ais523 18:35:28 or really anyone 18:35:36 to the mathmobile! 18:35:56 oerjan: not math. i just tried to edit Brainfuck_constants from my phone 18:36:04 and it looked right in the editor 18:36:17 but totally broke the formatting in the display version 18:36:40 can you fix it? and figure out wtf my phone is doing? 18:37:57 hm... 18:38:15 `ord 18:38:19 32 32 18:38:55 `ord 18:38:57 32 32 18:39:03 huh 18:39:41 `ord 18:39:43 32 32 18:41:38 The creator of SMBC is livedrawing requests http://www.twitch.tv/zachweinersmith 18:42:56 ^ord 18:42:57 32 32 18:43:12 amazing 18:43:30 there are characters there that cut and paste as spaces, but which are interpreted wrong. 18:44:39 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:44:54 ^ord 18:45:05 ^ord   18:45:06 194 160 32 18:45:13 Oh, you've also not put space at the beginning of some lines at all. 18:45:32 oerjan: ^those are the characters 18:45:46 `ord 18:45:48 32 32 18:47:36 hon-breaking space 18:48:04 anyway i copied it via vim and back, and that fixed the problem. i also added spaces you'd missed. 18:48:12 and an A circumflex???? 18:49:00 A circumflex sounds like interpreting UTF-8 as latin-1. 18:49:17 fungot does that, btw. 18:49:18 oerjan: caught a java.lang.classnotfoundexception! fnord, glassbot is still alive."(_o)o.? have never used haskell, of course 18:49:53 ^ord Ø 18:49:54 195 152 18:50:13 > var "\195" 18:50:14 à 18:50:22 > var "\194" 18:50:23  18:50:57 quintopia: that's the difference between fungot's ^ord and HackEgo's `ord, the latter uses proper utf-8. 18:50:57 oerjan: if you are i guess. just check what directions recursive calls can move them 18:51:16 but fungot's is useful for seeing the actual bytes. 18:51:17 oerjan: then again, " run delegate" can also be flipped ( the starred stuff) and still i think 5 minutes is more than a listing of existing scheme implementations? any non-toy r5rs one 18:52:06 oerjan: while you're there, you can probably move the 45306 subsection up to the "greater than 256" section 18:52:28 i was considering it yesterday... 18:52:36 i would, but i'd break it again probably 18:55:46 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:57:12 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:59:28 fungot: Why can't you UTF-8, anyway? Is it TOO MUCH TO ASK? 18:59:29 fizzie: do you compile it? :p. ugh i need to figure out 18:59:42 Well, as long as you're trying. 19:00:01 fizzie: he's saying you have to compile support for utf-8 in! 19:00:07 get on that! 19:02:02 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:04:40 Merry christmas, fungot! 19:04:40 FireFly: mikä on extortion business or the like 19:04:53 Not a very merry christmas for mikä then 19:08:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:11:08 fungot: How do I compile in UTF-8 support? 19:11:09 fizzie: it also depends on defmacro, i was about to do that in my scheme window manager originally based on next. so far i've received several out of office!" 19:11:20 fungot: It sounds kinda difficult. Why don't you do it? 19:11:20 fizzie: i don't suppose it lets you pass a list 19:11:36 fungot: Oh, well, in that case. I'll put it on the list. 19:11:36 fizzie: i'll probably ask on the plt mailing list is any value that is a *very* irritating thing... all this reading about xaml makes me sick 19:11:57 Poor bot, forced to read about XAML all day long. 19:12:24 fizzie: Well, how could fungot even have the chance, while receiving several out of office? 19:12:25 shachaf: an even shorter forth quine: http://rafb.net/ fnord iffi so far 19:14:13 fungot almost tricked me into visiting that uri 19:14:13 int-e: i'll try that right now 19:15:32 fungot: do you have first-class support for irritating values 19:15:32 shachaf: looking at your fnord thing on your desk 19:15:43 fungot: hey don't look at that 19:15:43 shachaf: jao: you are probably right. i meant because the authors aren't here. you only need to take an example sxml tree and an example of taking a canonical esolang ( bf). that effectively prevents any kind of url 19:25:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:49:33 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 19:57:35 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:58:34 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 20:04:53 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:06:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:07:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:11:29 I think I tried to filter out "foo:" attribution lines. 20:11:39 Purely based on the fact that it doesn't usually say those. 20:11:48 But perhaps that was a case of "foo: bar: content here". 20:12:09 yeah, I was wondering if it was a double reverse-attribution 20:12:16 shachaf: Please post a picture of your fnord thing on your desk. 20:12:22 it's not an attribution, that would be " message here" 20:13:01 I was thinking of some other word. 20:13:31 Addressing, perhaps. 20:14:23 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 20:20:04 `metar KBGR 20:20:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: metar: not found 20:20:17 ~metar KBGR 20:20:25 how metar do. 20:20:51 step 1: have metasepia here. 20:21:06 oh. 20:21:09 step 2: hakkarrkrrrankbanpiedanangggcckladnkra 20:21:19 good 2nd step. 20:21:24 ^ 20:27:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:34:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:42:30 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:45:00 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:46:45 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:47:50 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:48:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:06:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:07:10 -!- CADD_ has joined. 21:10:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:10:49 I keep getting a ping timeout? 21:11:01 zzo38: yes, 240 seconds was the last one 21:11:18 Do you know what is the problem? 21:12:59 no 21:21:32 I tried changing my IDLETIMER setting from 225 to 200 in case that helps 21:23:49 zzo38: There are probably some problems on freenode right now 21:23:54 I had a disconnect today too 21:25:14 -!- CADD_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:25:20 i haven't had a disconnect from freenode per se in a long time, afair 21:25:59 (presently i'm on webchat because the linux server i usually connect _via_ disconnected, but that's different.) 21:26:37 of course i usually use a fixed freenode server though (a swedish one iirc) 21:27:42 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:45:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:47:08 -!- Bike has joined. 21:47:40 i wonder if boily will be in here someday soon 21:49:24 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 21:54:29 goods yules duddes 21:54:50 happy fucking christmas everybody 21:55:54 the mass of christ 21:57:17 happy christing fuckmas 21:57:36 it's not xmas yet though??? 21:57:38 for most of this channel 21:57:44 <#haskell> when trying to make something as simple as Conway's game of life, I shouldn't have to choose between readable and fast 21:57:48 well it is in oceania or whatever right 21:57:50 wolfram alpha disappoints http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=mass+of+christ 21:59:22 finland celebrates the day before christmas more than the actual christmas day 21:59:25 at least i do 22:00:06 i tried to choose a random moment close to the average of the two 22:01:10 oerjan: do those countries you linked celebrate something near His Mass though? 22:01:33 i guess if some work through it then no 22:02:03 well the ones colored lighter supposedly had some celebrations, just not official iirc? 22:02:58 also taiwan and pakistan accidentally have other celebrations on the same day. 22:03:48 well a priori i'm inclined to think it's not completely accidental 22:04:17 did you even read the description. 22:04:23 because aren't things like hanukkah and all sorts of other stuff also nearby, people celebrate the same day and eventually come up with different reasons 22:04:34 the a priori is because i have no idea what you are talking about 22:04:53 it's not like hanukkah is about presents and trees. it's just that consumerism is all consuming 22:05:46 oklopol: taiwan celebrates its constitution day, pakistan the birthday of their (non-religious) founder 22:05:54 ok 22:06:06 those _might_ be coincidental 22:06:17 but who knows 22:07:35 hanukkah is, if i understood correctly, about the end of some invasion or something 22:07:45 merry christmas. 22:07:53 wasn't hanukkah a pretty obscure third-tier holiday before american jews started emphasizing it to participate in the ~~holiday season~~~ 22:08:12 could be 22:08:31 that would fit my "all holidays are actually christmass" theory nicely 22:08:46 all holidays are actually roman solstice holiday 22:08:54 ^ 22:09:24 happy saturnalia everyone, here is your lube and torch 22:10:57 happy holideers. 22:11:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:14:37 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 22:19:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:23:23 (>>= repeat) == cycle? 22:23:38 just run it sgeo 22:52:56 Sgeo: no 22:53:53 > (repeat () >>) "test" 22:53:54 "testtesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttes... 22:54:48 > (join . repeat) "test" 22:54:49 "testtesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttesttes... 22:55:08 well i'm convinced 22:55:25 of what 22:55:32 not sure 22:55:48 :t (>>= repeat) 22:55:49 [b] -> [b] 22:56:02 > (>>= repeat) "test" -- just to make it clear 22:56:03 "ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt... 22:56:28 it's an ininite number of t's followed by an infinite number of e's, etc, right? 22:56:34 WELL 22:57:04 sadly haskell lists do not go beyond omega index. 22:57:58 I think there is a datatype for transfinite ordinals somewhere on hackage 22:58:30 i'm not sure you could make a working monad instance for ordinal-indexed lists, though. 22:59:13 i'm talking "''conceptually»» 22:59:15 ("but what about cisfinite ordinals") 22:59:45 because you'd have to do infinite computation to work out which ordinal a part of the result ends up in 22:59:50 die cis scum *shoots 7 in the face* 23:00:06 well, 7 8 9 23:00:10 so I think he had it coming 23:00:56 damn straight 23:01:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:01:31 what interpretation of quantum mechanics did schrödinger go for, since he wasn't a copenhagen kinda guy 23:02:53 hm reminds me of that relevant shtetl-optimized thread i should check for new comments 23:03:23 (http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1622) 23:04:50 'But on the other hand, Einstein and Schrödinger were clearer in realizing that you couldn’t restrict QM to “microscopic phenomena” only using nothing but mountains of verbiage about complementarity—that once you adopted QM consistently, there would be no inherent limit to the size or spatial range of superpositions.' 23:07:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:18 so you're saying he was basically deepack chopra 23:07:52 (it doesn't answer the question properly though) 23:09:16 "Bohr and Heisenberg both had the properties of [...] (4) generally, being a lot more ponderous and obscure than not only their successors, but even contemporaries like Schrödinger and Dirac." 23:09:18 he wrote a book called "The Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics". maybe it's relevant?? 23:09:45 so he wasn't the worst, back then 23:10:09 the worst of what 23:10:25 well the most deepak chopraish 23:11:25 * oerjan maybe should note he doesn't know much about this beyond what's in that blog thread 23:12:21 well, i gues What Is Life was kind of wack. 23:12:32 lol physicists. 23:12:47 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 23:27:02 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:27:17 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 23:27:17 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:41:43 -!- w00tles has joined. 23:51:50 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 23:54:05 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 2013-12-25: 00:04:40 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:05:12 -!- w00tles has joined. 00:06:03 -!- realzies has joined. 00:06:37 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 00:14:56 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]). 00:15:51 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:20:17 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 00:40:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:42:35 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 00:46:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:48:46 -!- w00tles has joined. 00:56:44 -!- Bike has joined. 00:58:46 -!- Koen_ has joined. 01:03:21 lqst qssignement: write q compiler and then an interpreter for some pseudo-asm language used to build "warriors", for a bf-joust like competition 01:03:30 this school is FUN 01:06:10 pseudo-ass language 01:06:50 lqst? last? 01:07:57 int-e: as you can see it took me no more than four words to switch back to azerty, even though I'm typing in the dark` 01:08:22 (entering password to boot the computer took a few tries though) 01:08:32 oh, sorry. I got hooked up on the first word and didn't notice the consistency :) 01:08:41 you cannot prove it wasn't five words 01:09:21 (also I'm blissfully unaware of azerty. I have enough trouble with using both qwertz and qwerty) 01:09:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Also, good night). 01:10:15 azerty is like french for qwerty and oh guess what the punctuation is all wrong 01:10:54 anyway, just wanted to say hi to you guys 01:11:07 hi to you guys. 01:11:50 and now I`m going back to sleep - I havent had a single free day since it all started sooooo Im gonna enjoy tomorrow a lot 01:18:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:20:43 If I talk about Cablevision or competitors, I think I'm expected to state that I work for Cablevision, but all opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily that of my employer 01:20:49 At least on social media websites 01:20:54 Don't know if IRC is covered 01:21:22 (I'm not disagreeing with the policy, just not sure how it would apply to chat) 01:21:47 cablevision doesn't sound like the name of a company that has opinions 01:26:57 sounds can be deceiving 01:27:18 irc is a social media website 01:27:47 IRC is a social medium, which in most cases can be accessed via some websites 01:28:15 Maybe I don't need the disclaimer if I see no web client users? 01:29:03 'makes sense' 01:29:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:34:25 -!- ^v has joined. 01:40:58 "Breaking News: No shots fired" 01:46:45 ^^ actual headline 01:47:14 or.. whatever they're called on TV news 01:47:30 Probably made more sense to people who were watching than people who saw a glimpse 01:51:01 Turing has been pardoned. 01:51:05 As of yesterday. 01:51:15 such bullshit 01:51:29 how so? 01:51:31 the pardon campaign was nothing but tactless pandering to begin with 01:51:56 agreed. 01:52:04 he shouldn't have been convicted in the first place. 01:52:33 afaik the important part -- the absolution of all gays convicted under those laws -- was quietly implemented years ago 01:52:41 correct. 01:52:52 yet it's an important ritual at least in my eyes. 01:53:06 it doesn't excuse anything, but it's a gift. 01:53:20 but it's not! the apology already did that 01:53:56 the pardon is a deeply unsavoury gesture which implies that turing was just an exception because he was gay but useful 01:54:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:54:20 pardoning someone for violating an unjust law is somewhat perverse 01:54:24 aye, if you see it like that, I'm inclined to agree. 01:54:35 since it implies special circumstances mean that Turing's being gay was excusable 01:54:46 yep. 01:55:04 someone should disagree so we can have a proper fight over this 01:55:16 I think many people agree. 01:55:37 I just see it as a sort of useful recognition, I suppose. It's a nice gift to see Turing in the news again. 01:56:32 i admit i'm kind of glad every time i see turing in the news at all since he owned 01:57:14 he did. 01:57:18 is that movie with cumbutler out yet 01:57:50 look if you want to deride cumberbatch just call him poshfuck 01:58:01 nope 01:58:16 'ultimate poshfuck' if there are other poshfucks forcing disambiguation 01:58:24 i don't dislike him or anything even he just has an absurd name 01:58:45 but he's such a poshfuck! 01:58:46 poshfuck. 01:59:00 is he bad/ i seriously don't know, i've never seen anything with him in it 01:59:01 vocabulary.extend("poshfuck"); 02:00:07 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9473337/Posh-baiting-may-drive-Benedict-Cumberbatch-to-the-US.html well he's definitely a poshfuck 02:00:51 posh-bashing 02:01:01 benedict cucumberpatch. 02:02:01 «“I remember being really quite scared at the Twitter thing [a global army of online fans call themselves “Cumberbitches”]» terrifying 02:04:36 cumberbitches? that is terrifying. 02:09:00 i would be terrified 02:10:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:12:39 -!- Chillectual has joined. 02:15:41 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:36:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:40:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:44:27 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:45:26 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 02:45:47 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:50:12 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 02:50:24 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:58:14 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 02:58:15 -!- Sorella has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:07 -!- w00tles has joined. 04:03:56 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:22:07 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 04:50:11 -!- Edward___ has joined. 04:50:18 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:50:28 -!- mauke has joined. 04:50:55 -!- Edward___ has changed nick to Edwardz. 04:50:59 howdy1 04:51:01 !* 04:51:44 now i have a machinegun 04:52:47 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:53:23 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:53:29 I don't. 04:53:32 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 04:54:21 ho ho ho 04:56:53 I don't like having an infinitely large close button on my browser 05:10:53 -!- Chillectual has joined. 05:11:08 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:11:15 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 05:14:32 -!- Edwardz has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:23:00 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:28:29 -!- tertu has joined. 05:34:59 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:38:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:59:51 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:31:39 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:00:23 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:06:12 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:27:42 -!- preflex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:27:48 -!- preflex_ has joined. 07:28:13 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 08:06:36 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 08:26:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:27:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:38:43 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq. 08:39:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:40:06 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:37:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:42:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:44:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:49:35 i don't dislike him or anything even he just has an absurd name <-- itym "cumbersome" hth 10:49:56 * oerjan almost added an extra hth to get around the filter, then remembered he wasn't on irssi 10:50:51 i assume there's no one around today to get the login server i use working again. 10:51:19 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:53:02 `addquote I don't like having an infinitely large close button on my browser 10:53:09 1147) I don't like having an infinitely large close button on my browser 11:10:19 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:22:53 My browser doesn't have a close button 11:23:13 shocking 11:24:04 i guess you are using a window manager without a close button on windows 11:33:43 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 11:33:46 -!- yorick has joined. 11:35:22 Yeah 11:35:30 No window decorations whatsoever 11:35:39 Except for a 1 pixel border 11:47:52 -!- carado has joined. 12:19:11 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:19:50 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 12:19:50 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:20:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:58:13 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 13:21:10 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:24:36 Trivia: when I was pretending to be a rabbi, the actor Mr. Neeson pretended to be my son 13:25:38 amazing 13:26:22 And today it is his birthday! 13:27:51 you mean liam neeson? 13:28:05 No 13:28:09 James Neeson 13:28:14 He's 16 today 13:28:16 poor 13:28:40 my dad's godmother was in a play with liam neeson 13:28:40 God, imagine if Liam Neeson played my son 13:28:44 i'm better than you Taneb 13:28:48 Well, get him 13:29:00 her! 13:29:10 Well, get her 13:29:16 Hang on 13:29:22 Since when is Liam Neeson a "her"/ 13:29:35 oh i thought you meant my dad's godmother 13:30:09 My godfather was once on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire 13:31:11 `addquote Well, get him her! Well, get her Hang on Since when is Liam Neeson a "her"/ oh i thought you meant my dad's godmother 13:31:15 1148) Well, get him her! Well, get her Hang on Since when is Liam Neeson a "her"/ oh i thought you meant my dad's godmother 13:31:37 And... my great uncle makes honey? 13:31:53 And my... dad's cousin is in a crime drama? 13:32:01 which one 13:32:15 The Doctor Blake Mysteries 13:36:15 She played Mattie 13:38:33 doctor blake? isn't that the fake series from friends? 13:39:16 Koen_, it's also a real series from Australia 13:39:39 australia? isn't that the fake continent? 13:40:02 Koen_, if it's fake then I'm 50% fake 13:40:07 Which I guess is true 13:40:11 So Australia is fake! 13:42:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:46:19 hmmm so I've got a permutation 13:46:34 and I have to output a sequence of instruction to build that permutation 13:47:31 those instructions will affect two dequeues a and b; a is the list to be sorted and b is initially empty 13:55:23 -!- carado has joined. 14:34:14 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 14:39:30 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:42:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:49:38 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:50:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:52:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:59:32 > 35*7+3 14:59:33 248 15:00:02 > 36*7+3 15:00:04 255 15:03:58 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:09:19 workin' on some constants? 15:12:13 i was checking that new one for 255 15:12:51 -!- boily has joined. 15:13:01 which makes some of the others obsolete 15:13:08 good Joyeux Noël morning! 15:13:42 boily i've been working on something for you! 15:13:48 quintopia: oh! 15:13:49 joilyeux noëi 15:13:54 oops 15:13:55 *l 15:14:18 oerjoyeux noël à toi aussi :D 15:14:46 joyeux quinoëltopia! 15:16:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:17:46 boily: this has been my main project of the past few days: http://imgur.com/cqSDKci 15:17:59 just for you! 15:21:13 ... 15:21:27 you christmassy fiend! :p 15:21:31 ~metar CYQB 15:21:38 joyeux noïly! 15:21:48 oh right. I should metasepia first. 15:22:00 joooyeux noëdl! 15:22:44 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:22:48 ~metar CYQB 15:22:49 CYQB 251500Z 22012KT 25SM FEW020 M18/M21 A3050 RMK SC1 SC TR SLP336 15:24:38 boily: you could have been here. two of your fellow quebecois computer geeks are here. 15:24:43 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 15:24:54 quintopia: bin wéyons don. 15:25:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:25:05 (untranslatable.) 15:25:11 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 15:25:12 well damn 15:25:22 why say it if i can't understand it 15:25:32 can you transcribe it for them? :D 15:25:36 also, there is nothing that is untranslatable if you try hard enough 15:25:57 > length "+++++[>+++++++<-]>[<+++++++>-]<++++" 15:25:58 35 15:26:26 quintopia: uhm... “well we see [emphatic particle]”? 15:27:51 it's an exclamation of inquiring surprise, denoting scepticism and a desire to know more. 15:28:50 gotcha 15:29:20 jordan thiboust and his wife(?) cyrielle 15:30:08 he's a game designer at ubisoft (Assassin's Creed 2015) and she's a QAer at a subsidiary of Activision. 15:30:59 i guess i should go now 15:32:04 go enjoy the droempiunbilciacn while you can! 15:33:09 it seems to me that the new 2-cell non-wrapping algorithms are sometimes better than the old 3-cell ones... 15:34:21 248 being the first (last?) 15:34:54 i started copying by hand, but that's not going to be sustainable if this continues. 15:35:13 * oerjan also is lazy, in case someone didn't note. 15:36:38 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:37:15 boily: your bot is not feeling well 15:38:47 I now, and it is time to go for me also. 15:38:59 oh noews 15:39:38 it is so. I have to resume the ongoing Towerfall tournament my bro and I are undergoing. 15:39:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OUYING CHICKEN!). 15:48:13 one awkward thing about webchat is that it gives you no direct indication that you've been disconnected, so once it's happened once i get nervous whenever the channel falls silent... 15:50:15 yep, that keeps catching ais523_ out too 16:08:10 oh noooo i have to document this esolang 16:08:12 the boring part..... 16:08:58 I dunno, documentation's the interesting part sometimes 16:09:05 btw, merry christmas, all those who celebrate it today 16:09:12 merry christmas ais523 ! 16:10:21 merry christmas, all those who _don't_ celebrate it today! *hides behind rock* 16:12:35 the set of all christmases that do not celebrate themselves 17:03:16 -!- ^v has joined. 17:05:04 thanks ais523 and to you too. i will spend the rest of the day in cars and planes and airports 17:07:00 oerjan: what is the 3-cell algorithm for 248? 17:07:27 there's a whole bunch listed right under the 2-cell one i inserted. 17:09:56 ok 17:09:59 g2g 17:10:14 have a nice trip 17:24:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:00:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:07:25 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 18:13:19 -!- conehead has joined. 19:12:20 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 19:22:23 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 19:23:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:31:13 -!- conehead has joined. 19:45:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:00:04 -!- ^v has joined. 20:04:26 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:06:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:14:23 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:16:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:20:09 -!- Bike has joined. 20:21:26 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:24:00 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 20:32:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:38:31 How do I make a dotted strikeout on a MediaWiki file? 20:39:25 -!- olsner has joined. 20:40:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 20:52:53 -!- ^v has joined. 20:52:54 -!- w00tles has joined. 20:53:10 zzo38: i don't recall seeing dotted strikeouts... 20:54:47 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 21:01:10 «the holes (called "exploits" in security lingo) » 21:02:24 getting too close to black exploits is very insecure. 21:02:51 (http://www.businessinsider.com/security-folks-share-snapchat-hack-2013-12) 21:07:00 Outlook is telling me I missed a meeting this morning... I'm very distinctly certain I have Christmas day off 21:08:10 you just missed the message yesterday evening that your day off was canceled hth 21:09:20 maybe your day off /was/ the meeting 21:09:40 the meeting was inside you all along 21:09:51 and that's the true meaning of christmas 21:13:08 just before christmas does sound like a shitty time to reveal an exploit. 21:13:27 doctor who christmas special was godalmighty mess; news at eleven 21:13:41 Phantom_Hoover: was it a timey-wimey mess? 21:14:43 And I got a weird voicemail that must have been intended for someone else 21:15:45 oerjan, not even, it was just... a mess 21:15:59 shocking 21:16:14 was it a hot mess 21:16:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:16:37 a bose-einstein mess 21:16:45 Phantom_Hoover: It didn't air yet... oh, I guess it aired in England earlier? 21:17:00 earlier than in scotland? 21:17:02 Sgeo, SCOTLAND you MIMSY FUCK 21:17:15 I thought scotland was in england 21:17:31 ;___; 21:17:36 i refuse to believe olsner isn't joking 21:17:49 I hope olsner isn't joking 21:17:54 err, is joking 21:17:59 olsner: right now a huge scottish man is running at you with a claymore 21:18:00 There's some chart somewhere, but I kind of don't remember it 21:18:20 And also would have thought that Phantom_Hoover is in England and not Scotland 21:18:21 >.> 21:18:24 it's not that complicated. until you try to explain jersey and guernsey and shit like that 21:18:29 http://qntm.org/files/uk/uk.gif 21:18:36 Sgeo: Phantom_Hoover's been well-established to claim to be Scottish 21:18:43 http://qntm.org/uk 21:18:54 (a gif? wtf sam) 21:19:02 england and scotland are in the same place on that chart, that's good enough for me 21:19:02 I was wavering back and forth as to whether or not too say UK 21:19:18 Sgeo, you're going to watch it anyone so i'll not spoil anything in the hope that you realise it's a mess first-hand 21:19:18 i like that the placement of the dots within Great Britain is vaguely geographical 21:19:28 s/anyone/anyway 21:19:31 / 21:19:50 people are talking about whether they'll redesign the Union Jack if Scotland leaves the UK 21:20:03 haha 21:20:06 BBC has some example redesigns most of which are eye-wateringly ugly http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25222891 21:20:12 they'd have to lose the blue background, it'd be a disaster 21:20:28 will scotland still be in the GB or the commonwealth after independence? 21:20:38 swapping blue for green 21:20:45 i bet the unionists will be right on board with that 21:20:51 olsner: Great Britain is a mostly geographic term not a political one 21:20:58 it just means the whole island 21:21:12 but basic lesson in geography of that area: the British Isles is an archipelago, of which Great Britain is the largest island and Ireland is the second-largest; the UK is a country/nation, which currently contains all of Great Britain, many of the surrounding islands, Northern Ireland, and some random areas elsewhere in the world (Scotland is considering independence); the main "countries of the UK" are England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, 21:21:14 with some minor smaller ones; and the Republic of Ireland is the other major nation in the archipelago, which consists of all of Ireland apart from Northern Ireland 21:21:19 I think plans are to stay in the commonwealth but not sure 21:21:58 but yeah, "is Scotland in Great Britain" is a bit of a type error, and the closest answer is "Scotland is a country of the UK, most (but not all) of which consists of land on the island Great Britain" 21:22:05 but the UK is the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" etc. and that could be awkward if their territory doesn't include the whole island of Britain 21:22:16 it'd just be renamed again 21:22:17 ais523, re ireland, ulster is generally used interchangeably with northern ireland, but parts of ulster aren't actually in northern ireland 21:22:21 but the Republic of Ireland doesn't include the whole island of Ireland so whatever 21:22:26 Phantom_Hoover: Ulster is a county, isn't it? 21:22:41 no, it's... a province, i think? it's the biggest division 21:22:50 right, that makes more sense 21:23:01 olsner: the more interesting question I think is whether Scotland gets grandfathered into the EU or whether they'll have to join afresh 21:23:24 does scotland want to be in the EU? 21:23:24 which is then subdivided into counties; iirc donegal is the only counter in ulster and the ROI 21:23:29 olsner, yes 21:23:33 very much so 21:23:46 yeah and England wants out :3 21:24:16 http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71533000/jpg/_71533511_350641.jpg i wonder if this was designed just to piss off both sides in ireland 21:24:43 but iirc most of the pro-independence groups want to keep using the pound and enter a currency union with the uk, rather than switching to the euro 21:24:46 which would be awkward 21:24:55 because states joining the EU are required to be on a path to adopting the euro 21:25:01 we already print our own banknotes after all 21:25:08 UK having negotiated an exemption at the start of the EU 21:25:23 Phantom_Hoover: which aren't accepted in England, on the basis that most shopkeepers don't know how to tell whether they're real or forgeries 21:25:24 I got a call from what I assume to be a wrong number, not sure if I should call back 21:25:32 Or... even how I could call back 21:25:47 so does that exemption carry over to scotland or what 21:25:47 kmc: you can stay on the path pretty long without actuall getting the euro though 21:25:48 ais523, eh, it varies on the shopkeeper 21:25:51 olsner: that's true 21:26:04 Phantom_Hoover: indeed 21:26:24 well, I'm in favour of the EU, but not of the euro 21:26:34 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:26:40 also I consider Scottish independence an interesting prospect, but don't believe it will actually happen in practice 21:26:40 i'm not sure anyone's really in favour of the euro any more 21:26:47 also I like that some states use the euro without the knowledge or approval of the ECB 21:26:52 er I mean they know obviously 21:26:55 but there's no formal approval 21:27:59 and as a result they don't get any say in monetary policy 21:29:34 everyone knows ECB mode is insecure anyway 21:31:43 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:33:27 > [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat 21:33:29 [Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Jus... 21:33:55 > [Just (), Nothing] >>= replicate 3 21:33:56 [Just (),Just (),Just (),Nothing,Nothing,Nothing] 21:34:16 Is that first one anything like the mythical 0.9 repeating 1? 21:34:26 Sgeo: no 21:34:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:34:34 let me simplify it 21:34:39 > [1, 2] >>= repeat 21:34:40 [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1... 21:34:48 now, repeat makes an infinite list of 1s 21:34:55 ais523: and then twos after infinity, I would think 21:35:02 err, of its argument 21:35:05 Except they aren't reachable 21:35:05 It's the same as concatenating an infinite list of 1s to an infinite list to 2s 21:35:20 so if you view it as a List monad action, it replaces each element of a list with infinitely many copies 21:35:27 so yeah, the 2s are unreachable 21:35:27 Right, so, like 0.99999999999999999999 repeating followed by something else, which doesn't really make sense 21:35:38 > [1, fix id] >>= repeat 21:35:39 [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1... 21:35:45 > [fix id, 1] >>= repeat 21:35:48 (>>= f) is just concat . map f 21:35:49 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 21:35:57 Or concatMap f 21:36:41 I don't think I need the tutorial on >>= in the list monad 21:37:33 I thought we were just saying factual stuff randomly 21:39:02 How about fictional stuff randomly? id is non-strict on its argument 21:39:14 FreeFull: that's what you do all the time 21:40:05 kmc: Sometimes 21:40:34 Sgeo is writing list monad fan fiction 21:40:34 Pure Haskell functions do not mutate anything 21:42:10 Laziness is actually a limited form of mutation 21:42:16 But that's an implementation detail 21:42:37 thatsthejoke.png 21:42:41 So I should specify GHC? 21:44:43 it's funny though because it means that ghc haskell has this pervasive hidden side effect that is almost impossible to reason about 21:44:52 if you care about performance 21:45:00 and that's like the opposite of what haskell is supposed to be about 21:45:04 maybe we could say .999....4 is 9*10^-1 + 9*10^-2 + 9*10^-3 + ... + 4*10^-\infty 21:45:55 kmc: I don't think it's possible to follow the standard and do much better with regards to performance though 21:46:05 arithmetic on \infty is poorly defined 21:46:15 FreeFull: well it is, but in ways that aren't really relevant to my point 21:46:30 It's easy to do 0.999... 21:46:32 we define 10^-\infty as zero. for the sake of my meaningless point 21:46:34 It's just 9/9 21:46:35 Idris has laziness annotations in function types, and strict by default otherwise 21:46:40 yes thank you FreeFull 21:46:41 Which seems like a good idea to me 21:46:43 you can do arithmetic on ω and such 21:46:47 > 8 / 9 21:46:49 0.8888888888888888 21:46:53 > 1 / 9 * 9 21:46:54 1.0 21:47:00 blowing my mind here 21:47:14 > 12345 / 99999 21:47:15 0.12345123451234512 21:47:49 > 71 / 39 21:47:50 1.8205128205128205 21:48:09 But the 71 doesn't repeat 21:48:13 > 71/99 21:48:14 0.7171717171717171 21:48:19 > pi / exp(sqrt(2)) 21:48:20 0.763773746863268 21:48:32 Too irrational D:< 21:48:38 > 1 / -1 21:48:38 Precedence parsing error 21:48:39 cannot mix `GHC.Real./' [infixl 7] and prefix `-' [infixl 6] in the same... 21:48:49 I think most people here know the denominator 9s trick... although I'm not totally sure how it works 21:49:05 just take the limit. 21:49:06 i had forgotten 21:49:07 everyone loves limits 21:49:15 know your limits 21:49:33 Sgeo: It works in other bases too 21:50:02 I could have guessed... base-1 several times in denominator 21:50:39 I wonder if it works in fractional bases 21:54:31 S = a*b^-1 + a*b^-2 + ... -> S*b = a + a*b^-1 + a*b^-2 -> S*b = a + S -> S(b-1) = a -> S = a/(b-1) 21:54:44 throw another ellipsis in there, barkeep 21:55:53 I like how simple repunits are to generate 21:56:03 (10^n - 1)/(10-1) 21:56:12 Works for any integer base that is 2 or bigger 21:56:34 n is a positive integer 21:56:42 you're a positive integer 21:57:16 Thank you 21:58:03 Sgeo: the nice thing is that it works for negative n too 21:58:09 -0.1, -0.11, -0.111, -0.1111, etc. 21:58:20 (again, regardless of the base) 21:59:24 I assume ais523 meant FreeFull 21:59:36 err, yes 22:00:05 ais523: Yeah, except for ending up negative 22:00:17 well, the 0th repunit is 0 22:00:20 Sgeo: Today is your day 22:00:25 so negative repunits have to be negative, really 22:00:27 merry christmas 22:00:41 merry christmas. 22:01:24 merry christmas 22:01:40 chris merrytmas 22:01:53 rather, I should say.. 22:02:00 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:02:02 happy Baby Jesus Blowout Extravaganza 2013. 22:02:27 'Goormaghtigh conjecture' 22:02:30 kmc: just realized you don't need laziness to get infinite data structures... Rust has effectively infinite data structures via owned pointers, right? 22:03:16 Sgeo: I don't think they're infinite 22:03:53 Hmm, maybe not owned pointers particularly, but some sort of pointer? 22:04:18 is seven an infinite data structure 22:04:58 Sgeo: how do you figure 22:05:30 any structure made of owned & borrowed pointers can be built using raw C-style pointers (in Rust or in C) 22:05:48 I think you can do one using managed pointers 22:05:51 just with no safety checking or smart memory management 22:05:52 an infinite structure, that is 22:06:05 err, cyclic 22:06:20 You need to use pointers in Rust for recursive structures 22:06:24 you could do a "cyclic" structure with a mix of owned and borrowed, but it'd be one where all the cycles were broken via borrowed pointers 22:06:24 I seem to have forgotten about non-cyclic infinite structures 22:06:31 Mostly owned pointers 22:06:41 some advantages of seven: * infinitely many bits * prime * not like those other girls 22:06:47 you can represent something like the classic Haskell "infinite list" in Rust or C, you just need to explicitly distinguish the thunk at the end of the list-so-far and call it to get more elems 22:06:50 Non-recursive structures are basically unboxed 22:07:06 I don't think Rust brings anything special in this area 22:07:24 Bike: it might have infinitely many bits, but most of them are zeros :-( 22:07:41 ais523: allowing for efficient storage! 22:07:49 truly, seven is the data structure of the future 22:09:09 > let f 0 = "{}"; f n = (let x = f (n-1) in x ++ ",{" ++ x ++ "}") in f 7 22:09:10 "{},{{}},{{},{{}}},{{},{{}},{{},{{}}}},{{},{{}},{{},{{}}},{{},{{}},{{},{{}}}... 22:10:38 makes u think 22:12:54 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:13:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:16:32 It still amuses me that the first thing you see in Newcastle's chinatown is the Tynedale Irish Club 22:17:48 -!- conehead has joined. 22:23:16 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:24:55 kmc: Unbalancedness! 22:25:43 Taneb: is the irish club run by chinese people 22:26:06 idk, I'm neither 22:26:10 do they serve chinese turkey 22:26:54 Bike, yeah, on finest turkish china 22:26:57 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:27:28 hell year 22:31:41 Taneb, did you like the doctor who christmas special 22:32:19 Phantom_Hoover, I enjoyed it but I try really hard to enjoy everything so I don't know whether it was good or not 22:32:59 you're missing out man 22:37:41 Missing Out Man, the worst superhero 22:40:21 Never there when he's needed? 22:41:02 hi fizzie 22:41:11 how's your xmas and such 22:41:47 It's following established trajectories. 22:45:43 (We've made the traditional christmas foods -- tortillas with a meat-onion-bell-pepper fillings; chocolate fondue with (totally) bananas -- and I've mostly been playing games on a computer.) 22:49:19 ("Google Chrome could not load the webpage because store.steampowered.com took too long to respond. The website may be down, or you may be experiencing issues with your Internet connection." man, that "free L4D2" deal just did a number on their servers.) 22:49:44 heh 22:49:53 Oh, and we had that Pallini evening, though that was somewhat before the holidays. 22:50:03 (The "my balls" brand of limoncello.) 22:52:40 hehe, balls 22:52:51 what happens on Pallini evening, other than the drinking of Pallini? 22:53:03 or is it more like "what happens on Pallini evening stays in Pallini evening"? 22:53:17 mooo 22:54:19 kmc: We watched The Running Man, because it was being shown by one of the local TV channels, and it seemed somehow appropriate. 22:55:41 (Unrelated: I was tempted to say "playing vidcons" back there, a word I learned from a Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden video, but was afraid the reference wouldn't be "gotten".) 22:59:09 fizzie: your christmas cuisine seems somehow unfinnish... 23:00:16 oerjan: Yes, well, that's because Finnish christmas cuisine is kind of stupid. 23:07:42 what is finnish christmas cuisine? 23:08:50 -!- conehead has joined. 23:09:01 The "centerpiece" is conventionally a ham, but the turkey has been stealing some market share. 23:10:17 -!- preflex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:10:36 Then there's fish in a couple of ways, the "boxes" (various casseroles; potato, carrot, rutabaga are the usual triplet) and "rosolli", which is a kind of a beetroot/carrot/potato/apple/etc. salad. 23:11:01 The latter sometimes with whipped cream, possibly coloured light pink with the beetroot juice. 23:11:30 Karelian stew in the eastern parts, but I'm not sure if that counts, since it's quite an everyday food there too. 23:11:40 Beetroot juice can colour other things too 23:12:15 -!- preflex has joined. 23:12:40 Oh, and rice porridge, possibly not as a part of the actual christmas dinner but just generally during this time of the year. 23:13:01 And some sort of plum-based dessert, that's quite common too. 23:13:08 That's about all I can think of offhand. 23:13:56 The ham is supposed to have some kind of a mustard glazing thing going on, too. 23:14:37 (Oh, and there's glögi (mulled wine) to drink, but there's nothing wrong with *that*.) 23:16:18 Some people eat lutefisk, I believe. 23:17:04 -!- ^v has joined. 23:20:44 i don't really understand the appeal of turkeys 23:20:47 most of the meat is flavorless 23:21:12 FreeFull with the #beetrootjuicefacts 23:21:34 mulled wine is great 23:25:16 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 23:28:44 Though it's more of a "it's twenty degrees below freezing out there" drink, seems a bit of a waste for this "flat +5 °C day and night" weather. 23:32:09 mm 23:32:16 that's pretty warm 23:40:57 http://outside.aalto.fi/img/temp.week.png 23:42:22 Warmer than the average, but possibly nothing too unlikely yet. 23:42:35 Statistically, two out of three christmases in Helsinki are white. 23:43:04 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:51:24 ah, I guess it's already not-Christmas there 23:52:57 that might depend how you define christmas. 23:53:24 It's been the 26th for about two hours now. 23:53:43 by some norwegian traditions, "jul" lasts for 20 days. 23:54:58 some would say that christmas is on january 7 23:56:07 i thought it was the sixth 23:56:43 The sixth is a holiday in sweden anyway 23:56:59 "Thirteenth day of christmas" 23:57:45 Oh, I guess it's twelth day, counting from the 25th 23:59:17 look i just put "orthodox easter" into google i didn't ask a bishop or w/e 23:59:19 no, thirteenth 2013-12-26: 00:26:18 -!- Edward___ has joined. 00:26:54 -!- Edward___ has quit (Client Quit). 00:28:14 Memory has been exhausted; operation cannot continue (sorry). 00:28:26 xview is polite 00:29:14 https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/8128275 00:29:34 lol 00:29:49 "Sorry it didn't work out." --qmail-send 00:29:54 yep 00:30:16 "Internal compiler error. It's not you, it's me." 00:31:46 "Hi. This is the qmail-send program at hostname.tld. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out." (Full version.) 00:32:58 oh my stupid regex missed: %s: Sorry, cannot load images deeper than 16 bits (yet) 00:37:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Natta). 00:40:44 -!- conehead has joined. 00:45:24 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:50:23 -!- conehead has joined. 01:00:08 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to ChristmasInterpo. 01:00:34 -!- ChristmasInterpo has changed nick to HolidayInterpol. 01:05:37 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:15:46 holy crap solar eclipse cruises sell out quickly 01:43:41 (Comment on a RuneScape music video) 01:43:42 "even though the game is back no one is generous. I say that because im angry. Yes there are a few generous people but i had to BEG people to sell me law runes so i could teleport somewhere, i wasnt asking for free i said ill pay and i begged and begged but no one even acknowledged me and the few who did, well guess what they wrote ? then they walked off after i asked." 01:44:34 -!- Edward___ has joined. 01:44:38 -!- Edward___ has changed nick to Edwardz. 01:45:19 Hey guys! I just "Google Scholar'd" "brainfuck" and got some really cool results that I think an esoteric language community would be interested in. Foremost, however, is definitely this one! 01:45:20 http://www.nada.kth.se/kurser/kth/2D1464/awib.pdf 01:45:36 Did any of you publish this...? ;) 01:45:38 can you give me a title or something, i don't want to download a pdf 01:45:51 Sorry, Chrome makes one forget about the whole PDF thing. 01:45:58 The design and implementation of awib, a brainfuck compiler written in brainfuck 01:46:17 i think there are a couple of those on the esolang page 01:46:31 http://esolangs.org/wiki/awib 01:46:37 well, there we go. 01:46:40 awib is notable enough ;) 01:46:46 I hadn't checked, apologies. I found the background and preface extremely cool. 01:47:18 https://twitter.com/matslina weird how you can find anybody on the internet nowadays 01:48:30 here, in return, have this paper http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.1749 01:48:59 That's freakin' awesome! 01:53:16 -!- Edwardz has quit. 01:53:47 -!- tertu has joined. 02:01:40 arxiv is the best venue for publishing hard sci-fi 02:02:48 sci-fi so hard it actually happened 02:03:42 hm, i should use that to refer to naturalistic novels 02:08:39 well some of it is about, like, hypothetical space missions to save the earth from the sun blowing up in 5 billion years 02:09:16 or the self-replicating intergalactic probes 02:12:10 i oughta make me some o those 02:12:31 are there any estimates on how long they'd take to kill us all if i sent one to, say, tau ceti 02:27:33 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 02:31:37 -!- Taneb_ has joined. 02:33:58 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 02:33:58 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 02:33:58 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 02:33:59 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 02:33:59 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 02:38:27 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:38:59 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:41:59 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:44:38 hi 02:47:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:47:17 hi 02:47:23 * kmc drinking mulled peach wine 02:50:16 i like peaches 02:50:25 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:51:13 but do you like wines 02:51:50 mulled wine is good 02:51:51 bur 02:51:55 peach? 02:51:59 apparently 02:51:59 uncertain 02:52:05 will mull it over 02:52:07 peach wine is p. good (n=1) 02:59:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:06:29 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:07:23 shachaf: did you have a good christmas or w/e 03:09:14 -!- conehead has joined. 03:12:11 -!- realzies has joined. 03:16:39 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:18:21 not v. 03:19:31 perhaps next year 03:19:33 hrm 03:20:00 what did you do 03:20:11 `quote christmas 03:20:13 522) CakeProphet: mr president, in the best egyptian judicial traditions has now been put off to friday. but i want my money back'. we know it generally deals with major infrastructure projects which could form part of the emergency package for korea, on christmas eve, in the interests of consumers and the environment of gmos. \ 836) 03:20:17 tried to sleep through the noise while being sick 03:20:20 `quote 836 03:20:22 836) no christmas without christ, no thursday without thor 03:20:30 good quote kmc 03:20:31 was woken up at 3something by loud music 03:20:37 and so on 03:20:53 people are so inconsiderate 03:25:31 -!- conehead has joined. 03:43:35 -!- Sorella has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:55:52 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:15:28 -!- augur has joined. 04:19:01 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:34:00 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:34:10 Today I got a "Puzzle Strike" game. 04:34:25 Is it good? 04:34:48 Yes 04:39:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:51:41 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:51:45 -!- mauke has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:52:09 -!- mauke has joined. 04:52:19 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:52:25 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 04:58:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:59:12 wtf 05:22:45 what which fuck 05:47:32 -!- augur has joined. 05:54:34 -!- preflex has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:56:32 -!- preflex has joined. 06:20:27 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 06:23:39 -!- HolidayInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:26:56 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:27:18 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 06:27:42 -!- typeclassy has joined. 06:48:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:49:28 -!- farrioth has joined. 07:55:17 http://cgi.cs.indiana.edu/~oracle/digest.cgi?N=1524#1524-02 07:55:19 I'm sad now 07:55:27 I don't want the Internet Oracle to die 08:10:59 http://cgi.cs.indiana.edu/~oracle/digest.cgi?N=1521#1521-03 I like this one 08:18:01 http://cgi.cs.indiana.edu/~oracle/digest.cgi?N=1521#1521-05 08:35:25 help im addicted 08:36:03 why couldn't you get addicted to heroin like a good son 08:50:09 I need to be awake and coherent soon :/ 08:51:06 -!- jconn has joined. 08:51:09 you know what might help with that? drugz 08:52:00 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:52:30 A very good idea immediately before a drug test 08:53:03 if you don't have enough drugz you'll fail the drug tesst 09:00:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:15:55 was woken up at 3something by loud music <-- i'm going to assume something = pm, because it makes the rest funnier (and i still feel with you) 09:17:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:48:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:00:10 -!- CADD has joined. 10:32:56 -!- farrioth has left. 10:43:20 -!- Taneb_ has changed nick to Taneb. 10:48:15 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:33:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:57:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:02:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:09:17 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:14:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:21:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:22:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:28:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:43:46 -!- carado has joined. 12:46:02 -!- yorick has joined. 12:56:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:15:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:22:37 rec.humor.oracle.d is full of spam 13:22:46 Just like a hovercraft full of eels 13:25:26 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 13:40:23 -!- boily has joined. 13:47:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:54:02 -!- w00tles has joined. 13:55:30 `relcome w00tles 13:55:35 ​w00tles: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:57:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:59:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:28:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:29:33 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 14:29:33 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:40:19 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 14:49:28 -!- w00tles has joined. 14:53:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:59:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:59:49 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131226-lifenative.jpg -- don't know why, but I just absolutely have to take a picture whenever a public computer has crashed. 15:25:35 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 15:28:03 -!- w00tles has joined. 15:33:18 fizzie: what is lifenative? 15:35:38 -!- olsner has joined. 15:36:50 -!- HolidayInterpol has joined. 15:38:00 -!- HolidayInterpol has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 15:38:23 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to HolidayInterpol. 15:42:57 No clue, but I assume it's the software responsible for the interactive multimedia experience under the error message. 15:50:56 you have a N900? sweet :D 15:53:17 Huh, the exif tags survived the trip through Gimp? Fancy. 16:08:40 -!- conehead has joined. 16:18:17 -!- HolidayInterpol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:18:45 -!- HolidayInterpol has joined. 16:19:56 hoily 16:22:12 quinthellopia. 16:29:36 -!- metasepia has joined. 16:30:21 -!- HolidayInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:30:37 ~metar CYQB 16:30:38 CYQB 261600Z 05006KT 3/4SM -SN OVC007 M11/M14 A3024 RMK SN6SF2 SLP248 16:37:16 ~metar ESKN 16:37:19 ESKN 261620Z 09004KT 9000 MIFG BR NSC 00/00 Q1002 R26/710164 16:38:32 hmm, BR was that french word for something, wasn't it? 16:38:54 «brume». 16:39:13 also, you have MIFG ← http://www.aeroinstructor.com/2011/02/shallow-fog-metar-mifg/ 16:39:24 brume, "poetic heavy mist or fog" 16:41:04 brume is lighter than fog. 16:46:07 no significant cloud... and 00/00 is temperature = dewpoint = 0 C? 16:49:49 indeed. 16:50:14 what's R26/710164? 16:50:35 that 9000 is visibility? 16:53:14 Rnn/nnnnnn is runway condition. I can't decipher them without a guide. 16:53:34 9000 is ground visibility. I think it's 9 km, but I'm not sure. 16:53:50 * boily mutters to himself “metric units...” 16:54:02 I'm gonna rehost my esolangs page 16:54:14 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:54:38 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:01:18 http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/esolangs.html 17:02:10 Taneb: s/Read/Real/ on the last entry there. 17:02:35 shachaf, good spot 17:02:47 Taneb: your page, it is exclamatory! 17:04:56 I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing! 17:05:18 olsner: seems your R group is a special European runway designation →https://www.ivao.aero/training/tutorials/metar/metar.htm, § EIGHT FIGURE GROUP. 17:09:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:13:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:14:26 Taneb: why does MIBBLLII not have square brackets? :( 17:15:02 myname, it does 17:15:04 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:15:10 were 17:15:11 *h 17:15:14 Just they're syntax, not operators 17:15:59 "It uses [ and ] as brackets for grouping combinators" 17:16:06 ah 17:16:41 why don't you provide interpreters? 17:17:02 Mostly because either there isn't an interpreter or because I haven't bothered 17:17:09 Where they exist the wiki links to them 17:23:02 Just they're syntax, not operators 17:23:15 Phantom_Hoover, I'm gonna be wrong aren't I 17:23:19 would anyone be really pissed if i went through the brainfuck constants page and deleted all but one of each the "multiplying factors" programs that were identical up to commutation of factors? 17:23:20 that's a distinction of definition isn't it? 17:23:40 like people define [] in brainfuck as 'operators' but you get exactly the same language as you get if you define them as 'syntax' 17:24:10 Phantom_Hoover, I don't think you would in MIBBLII 17:25:11 Phantom_Hoover: you'd have to change the semantics of bf to define them as syntax right? [ and ] actually do things (compare the current cell to zero) and that functionality would have to be moved into a category of "the way grouped commands in this language behave" 17:25:28 what 17:26:42 in bf i would just say "+-,.<> work as normal, [prog] runs prog if the current cell is nonzero, then [prog] again" 17:27:03 yeah that would work 17:27:27 essentially exactly what i was saying 17:28:27 oh i see where the confusion was now 17:31:39 so yeah, no one cares if i go on a BF constants deleting spree? 17:31:48 Not I! 17:31:58 boily: do you care 17:34:00 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:38:25 -!- ^v has joined. 17:45:12 * boily is munching on some crackers while he watches the deleting spree. 17:45:56 quintopia: delete to you heart content! 17:45:58 ...it's not very exciting 17:46:11 I'm hungry, there are crackers. 17:47:40 is it important to delete constants? 17:47:50 the nice thing about BF is that programs that look very similar probably are very similar in what they do. (for a specific meaning of "look similar") 17:48:02 olsner: yes everyone should 17:49:04 I'm environmentally aware. I recycle my constants. 17:54:40 boily: a reversible computing proponent? 17:57:37 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 18:00:22 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:08:40 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 18:10:37 chellontrapumpkin. 18:10:57 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:12:24 quintopia: 100% efficiency isn't physically possible, so there are always some side-effects left. sure, you get some FDIV errors here and there when using recycled numbers, but it's the best for Nature, Earth, and Round Blue Stuff like that. 18:20:05 Reversible computing doesn't change the entropy of the system, I think 18:20:24 Reversible computing minimizes the entropy increase 18:20:25 Or, not until you want to get the answer 18:20:38 So you get the theoretically minimum energy usage 18:20:59 (Because you are mad if you think it will do 0 entropy increase) 18:21:20 MAD I TELL YOU 18:21:47 INSANE! 18:21:48 WENDEL! 18:22:48 -!- Bike has joined. 18:23:26 Well, you can't do computation without entropy increase 18:23:43 Information theory and all that 18:23:51 I AGREE WITH SLEREAH! FREEFULL IS MAD! (also, what is a wendel?) 18:24:01 can't you get the answer too, you just can't forget anything? 18:24:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:24:58 boily : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJiD43oeLCU#t=2m58 18:25:24 Slereah: oh. tdh. 18:25:31 tdh? 18:25:36 boily: Well, I am mad 18:25:47 But I never said you could compute without increasing entropy 18:26:28 `? mad 18:26:29 `? tdh 18:26:30 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 18:26:31 tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 18:27:13 imho, entropy and madness are usually orthogonal, but you never know. sometimes they leak unto each other. 18:27:36 Maybe I should finish reading that book 18:27:38 Then how do you explain perpetual motion machines 18:27:46 It came with my phone 18:27:52 Lack of entropy brings madness 18:28:21 the whole wacky insane thing is so very unpleasant after havin nightmares about schizophrenia 18:28:41 Oh I had a fun dream like that 18:28:48 I was hallucinating, like 18:28:53 Hallucinating like hell 18:28:56 And i was screaming 18:29:00 But only screaming in my mind 18:29:09 BECAUSE NO SOUND WAS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH 18:29:12 Fun dream 18:29:20 `run echo 'Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy.' >wisdom/'perpetual motion machine' 18:29:24 No output. 18:29:42 `? perpetual motion machine 18:29:44 Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFulls phone. They were hallucinated by Slereahs lack of entropy. 18:29:51 `? perpetuum mobile 18:29:52 oh hm. 18:29:52 perpetuum mobile? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:30:07 `run echo "Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy." >wisdom/'perpetual motion machine' 18:30:10 No output. 18:30:15 Do neural networks dream 18:30:21 Possibly of electric sheep 18:30:27 ~duck perpetuum 18:31:01 `run ln -l wisdom/'perpetual motion machine' wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' 18:31:02 ln: invalid option -- 'l' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 18:31:04 my bot is lagged. it just got to “WENDEL!” 18:31:08 `run ln -s wisdom/'perpetual motion machine' wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' 18:31:11 ln: accessing `wisdom/perpetuum mobile': Not a directory 18:31:25 `run ln -s wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' wisdom/'perpetual motion machine' 18:31:27 ln: creating symbolic link `wisdom/perpetual motion machine': File exists 18:31:31 I always get the order mixed up 18:31:33 Hmm 18:31:43 `? perpetuum mobile 18:31:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:31:44 perpetuum mobile? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:32:13 What does it mean by not a directory again? 18:32:25 `run ln -s ./wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' 'perpetual motion machine' 18:32:29 ln: accessing `perpetual motion machine': Not a directory 18:32:32 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:32:51 `run ln -s 'perpetual motion machine' ./wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' 18:32:52 ln: accessing `./wisdom/perpetuum mobile': Not a directory 18:33:00 `run ln -s 'perpetual motion machine' /hackego/wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' 18:33:02 ln: creating symbolic link `/hackego/wisdom/perpetuum mobile': No such file or directory 18:33:07 I should stop 18:33:18 -!- Zuu has joined. 18:33:52 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:34:10 -!- metasepia has joined. 18:34:16 ~duck perpetuum 18:34:30 --- No relevant information 18:34:35 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetuum_mobile 18:35:02 Except that page is about it in music 18:35:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:37:55 One fun thing about perpetual motion is that the capillary bowl setup actually works if you use superliquid helium 18:38:02 You can't extract energy from it though 18:38:29 And the helium will end up dripping out 18:39:13 I guess you could make it enclosed, and use some material that doesn't have microscopic pores 18:39:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:40:46 Maybe I'm wrong about this 18:40:48 so you'd have a dripping, supercooled, isolated perpetual motion machine? 18:41:14 boily: Well, you'd have to keep it cool 18:41:18 That'd take energy 18:41:23 'huge dogecoin heist' no, world, i'm not ready for this 18:41:38 Dogecoins were never a good thing 18:43:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:45:17 https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.imgur.com/nh2vUkx.png&fnr 18:47:46 Ê? 18:59:05 i am a bit disappointed because of the lack of any offline haskell interpreters for android 19:01:51 typing code on a phone sounds painful 19:01:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:02:11 depends on your keyboard 19:02:25 hacker's keyboard on a tablet is actually pretty usable 19:02:50 Just like a hovercraft full of eels <-- well they're both monty python terms hth 19:03:39 @tell Sgeo Just like a hovercraft full of eels <-- well they're both monty python terms hth 19:03:39 Consider it noted. 19:14:20 `? hovercraft 19:14:21 a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner. 19:14:24 ⠠⠵⠠⠵ HACKER KEYBOARD⠠⠵⠠⠵ 19:14:55 @tell Sgeo you deserve an inappropriate smack. 19:14:55 Consider it noted. 19:15:12 * boily gacks at such an horrendous usage of Braille 19:16:22 oh wow, you could write base64 perfectly fine with braille 19:20:09 `unidecode ⠠⠵ 19:20:12 ​[U+2820 BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-6] [U+2835 BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-1356] 19:21:48 `unicode BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-6 19:21:50 ​⠠ 19:22:04 oh 19:25:48 `run unicode 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-45' 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-12' 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-36' 19:25:50 ​⠘⠃⠤ 19:26:09 hm 19:26:57 `run unicode 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-35' 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-14' 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-26' 19:26:59 ​⠔⠉⠢ 19:27:09 that's better 19:27:18 hi bike 19:27:28 sup 19:27:58 > var $ cycle "⠔⠉⠢" 19:28:00 ⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔⠉⠢⠔... 19:29:34 `run unicode 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-34' 'BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-16' 19:29:36 ​⠌⠡ 19:31:13 ⡗⡇⣟⡁⣇⡀⣇⡀⣏⡇⢘ 19:31:27 ^ul (⠌)S((⠌)(⠡))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 19:31:27 ⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠡⠌⠌⠡⠡⠌⠌⠡ ...too much output! 19:31:35 much output, very braille 19:31:52 is that the moose-thor sequence? 19:31:55 p. not 19:32:10 * boily carves an aerodynamic dog in a maple branch, then lobs it towards kmc's head 19:32:17 kmc: geas 19:33:05 hm that doesn't not have the expected pronunciation 19:33:17 geese 19:33:28 nope, not like that 19:33:42 [ɡɛʃ] 19:33:52 guèche? 19:34:11 Gesh? 19:34:49 except they spell it geas. people like that should go to gaol. 19:34:58 gaol is in hexham right? 19:35:02 Yup 19:35:07 gaol is a place where nothing ever happens 19:36:03 UK's goegraphy is weird. 19:37:12 Anyone got any fun, easy recipes for me to cook tomorrow/ 19:38:19 Taneb: i note your esopage doesn't mention that you cannot directly put negative numbers in the program. 19:38:32 Taneb: http://youtu.be/CeZlih4DDNg 19:38:34 *+fueue 19:40:34 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 19:40:49 Taneb: also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jambalaya. I make mine with ham. 19:40:59 lifthellorasiir. 19:41:24 boily: argh XD 19:42:43 oerjan: I can't resolve what your “argh” is pointing to. 19:43:02 something clearly satanic 19:45:12 I made it a few weeks ago. it was very good! (the Powers of the Ancients were properly channeled into the Glorious Pad Thai!) 19:52:14 -!- tertu has joined. 19:54:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:54:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:55:30 thellortu. 19:55:33 `ello ais523 19:55:36 Hello, ais523! 19:55:41 ... 19:56:19 hi 19:56:42 oerjan, you realise my esopage has been online for months, I've just moved it? 19:58:14 Taneb: yes, so i just took a look 19:59:17 ais523110 20:00:11 `run cat bin/ello 20:00:12 ​#!/usr/bin/env node \ // Generated by CoffeeScript 1.6.2 \ (function() { \ var consonant_then_o, ell_manglable, ends_with_consonant, ends_with_consonant_then_vowel, name, starts_with_o; \ \ name = process.argv[2]; \ \ if (!(name != null ? name.length : void 0)) { \ console.log('Usage: ello '); \ process.exit(); \ } \ \ 20:00:30 holy fungot. who coffeed that? 20:00:30 boily: http://developer.apple.com/ documentation/ fnord 20:00:49 fungot: it's now an apple product? oh the humanity... 20:00:50 boily: because i was lifting a tileset from it. in fact i am not 20:01:18 fungot: oh. careful with lifting tiles from cupertino. you could receive a C&A, and that would be terrible. 20:01:19 boily: yet another casualty in the drug war 20:01:33 s/\&A/\&D/ 20:02:04 fungot: I know. as the proverb goes, you can't break eggs without inventing the Universal Pie from scratch first. 20:02:04 boily: it's the name of godel against my original statment on the matter 20:02:25 fungot: I trust gödel more than you. 20:10:11 I trust fungot a lot more. 20:10:12 shachaf: s/ thunk/ procedure/. about that...? 20:10:40 shachaf: I think fungot is a spy. 20:10:41 boily: so the evaluator creates these two reactions, 1 a, 2 bits for space reasons" 20:10:43 fungot: Sure, whatever. 20:10:43 shachaf: is a primitive is: ( define foo car) 20:12:24 gödel only trusted those who didn't trust themselves. r.i.p. gödel. 20:14:16 fungot: Are you sure you're not secretly written in Scheme? 20:14:16 fizzie: that's the part i'm working on a sound library for games as well; the fnord are down because they can't allow downloads easily i can run 20:14:23 i only trust people who don't trust oerjan 20:14:35 shachaf: That must be a p. small set of people. 20:15:25 shachaf: a wise policy. 20:15:53 the people who trust me are such fools. 20:16:19 oerjan: i don't know about that 20:16:21 oerjan: i trust you 20:16:51 i see no contradictions yet. 20:19:58 oerjan is my standard unit of trustiness. 20:21:08 I trust fungot at 500 mSø. 20:21:08 boily: i think that is the same word as " husband" blah blah blah)) 20:22:19 fungot: do you know what the hebrew word for " husband" is 20:22:19 shachaf: that much i could figure out the commands, 20:23:27 shachaf: is that like trying to open the doors of Moria? “מדבר בעל ולהיכנס.” 20:23:52 (hm. some directionality was lost in transcribing...) 20:24:27 help 20:31:34 buzz buzz 20:31:51 Well, you can't do computation without entropy increase <-- *cough* only if you delete information. what do you think the point of using reversible computing is? 20:34:40 Taneb: I'm not sure why you would want to write a hello world program in Agda. 20:34:59 shachaf, shut up I just want it to stop shouting at me when I try to compile 20:35:35 oerjan: We can't actually reach true reversibility though 20:35:38 What are you trying to compile and how? 20:35:46 oh wait will follow instructions 20:36:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:37:11 hezzo38. 20:37:15 FreeFull: maybe not. also, trying to put symbolic links in HackEgo is folly hth 20:40:01 first, because you can never remember how ln is _supposed_ to work, secondly because i don't think symbolic links work with the hg repository. 20:40:23 oerjan: What about the old wisdom/ngevd? 20:40:36 oerjan: So cp is the only option? 20:40:47 But that won't update with changes 20:40:49 shachaf: i don't quite remember. 20:41:09 `? perpetuum mobile 20:41:11 perpetuum mobile? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:41:18 `? perpetual motion machine 20:41:20 Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy. 20:41:53 `run ln -s 'perpetual motion machine' wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' 20:41:54 ln: accessing `wisdom/perpetuum mobile': Not a directory 20:42:04 `? perpetuum mobile 20:42:05 perpetuum mobile? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:42:28 Yeah, it gives that weird Not a directory error 20:42:56 Maybe if you give it the full path? 20:43:09 ls -l wisdom/perp* 20:43:17 `run ls -l wisdom/perp* 20:43:19 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 107 Dec 26 18:30 wisdom/perpetual motion machine \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 31 Dec 26 18:31 wisdom/perpetuum mobile -> wisdom/perpetual motion machine 20:43:30 Well, that link is wrong 20:43:45 `rm wisdom/perpetuum mobile 20:43:48 No output. 20:43:55 `run ln -s 'perpetual motion machine' wisdom/'perpetuum mobile' 20:43:59 ln: creating symbolic link `wisdom/perpetuum mobile': File exists 20:44:06 You didn't remove it correctly 20:44:14 The error changed somehow 20:44:20 `run ls -l wisdom/perp* 20:44:21 ah, the joy of symbolic links :D 20:44:22 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 107 Dec 26 18:30 wisdom/perpetual motion machine \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 24 Dec 26 20:43 wisdom/perpetuum mobile -> perpetual motion machine 20:44:28 * boily munches on «sucre à la crème» 20:44:31 Ah, it worked 20:44:33 Somehow 20:44:36 `? perpetuum mobile 20:44:39 Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy. 20:45:11 `run ls -l wisdom/*wolfram 20:45:12 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Nov 30 23:51 wisdom/stephen wolfram \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Nov 30 23:26 wisdom/wolfram 20:45:40 Copies 20:45:44 `? woflram 20:45:46 woflram? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:45:47 `? wolfram 20:45:49 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 20:45:52 `? stephen wolfram 20:45:54 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 20:45:56 Taneb invents too much 20:46:00 also he hates me :'( 20:46:06 `run echo test >test 20:46:10 No output. 20:46:13 `? perpetuum mobile 20:46:15 Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy. 20:46:22 ok it's still working 20:46:40 i have this vague hunch that the links sometimes just stop working again. 20:46:52 `? tanebventions 20:46:54 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, and Go. 20:47:08 I think I was the first to call them “tanebventions”... 20:47:14 `pastlogs tanebvention 20:47:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 20:47:20 `pastlog tanebvention 20:47:51 No output. 20:48:33 `pastelog tanebvention 20:48:53 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9996 20:48:58 is invention transitive 20:48:58 This is weird 20:49:01 pastlog should have worked 20:49:03 `run ls wisdom/e/e 20:49:05 wisdom/e/e 20:49:08 `run ls -l wisdom/e/e 20:49:09 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 10 Oct 30 15:01 wisdom/e/e -> wisdom/e/e 20:49:38 shachaf: as in, if I invent you, and you invent Taneb, that implies I invented Taneb? 20:49:48 For instance. 20:50:23 boily, therefore you invented Stephen Wolfram 20:50:45 didn't he invent maths 20:50:57 `run rm -rf wisdom/e 20:51:01 No output. 20:51:07 `run grep -iR taneb wisdom/ | wc -l 20:51:11 10 20:51:26 `people whom taneb is not 20:51:27 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: people: not found 20:51:30 `? people whom taneb is not 20:51:32 people whom taneb is not? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:51:35 `ls wisdom/e 20:51:36 `? people who taneb is not 20:51:36 ls: cannot access wisdom/e: No such file or directory 20:51:37 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 20:51:54 mysteriously, fungot is not on the list 20:51:55 shachaf: it's all hw stuff is too much work and can be fnord 20:51:56 Taneb: a shame, really. 20:52:21 shachaf: for Taneb to have invented fungot, there must be an isomorphism between him and fizzie. 20:52:22 boily: glass/, linguine/ i had to remove all the text to include some content. 20:52:50 what is the biextensional collapse of Taneb 20:53:53 ~duck biextensional collapse 20:54:12 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:54:29 -!- metasepia has joined. 20:54:53 ~duck biextensional collapse 20:54:53 --- No relevant information 20:55:14 it's a thing you can do to chu spaces 20:55:17 it's sort of like a skeleton 20:55:29 except in both dimensions 20:55:34 at the same time 20:57:14 mine eyes glazeth over thine bidimensional skeleton. 20:57:39 your skeleton is bidimensional 20:58:00 that'd explain a lot of things. 20:58:36 boily: by the way, "glazeth" is singular 20:58:42 like "glazes" 20:58:48 and "eyes" is plural 20:58:52 maybe you just want the word "glaze" 20:58:53 glazethen. 20:59:00 ~duck glaze 20:59:01 glaze definition: to furnish or fit with glass. 20:59:05 `pastelog eyes 20:59:16 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10027 20:59:46 `pastelog eyes.*over 21:00:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6495 21:00:30 “normally distributed glazed eyes served over bouchées of surreal bread rolls.” 21:00:34 fizzie: ☝ you too ☝ 21:01:13 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:02:35 there's boily with his r'lyehan fusion cuisine again. i guess it balances out the vegan black metal somehow. 21:03:17 oerjan: I need my proteins somehow. 21:03:45 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:03:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:03:56 What me what. 21:04:26 `unidecode ☝ 21:04:27 ​[U+261D WHITE UP POINTING INDEX] 21:04:30 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 21:04:36 FINGER 21:05:00 shachaf: it clearly specifies an index not a middle finger hth 21:05:03 Do hardware compilers have to analyze state machines? Maybe in such case I should add a state machine command if it would be really helpful for this purpose? 21:05:06 I'll give you the FINGER. 21:05:10 7/8 INCH 21:05:51 oerjan: yes 21:05:56 oerjan: because i was pointing above 21:06:16 What was in the above that I was supposed to pay attention to, though? 21:06:21 -!- tertu has joined. 21:06:27 fizzie: Eyes are plural, so they "glaze" over. 21:06:31 Not "glazeth". 21:06:47 Okay. That is good to know. 21:07:04 zzo38: they don't /have/ to, they just have ways to analyze fsms for optimization 21:07:14 @wn glaze 21:07:15 *** "glaze" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 21:07:16 glaze 21:07:16 n 1: any of various thin shiny (savory or sweet) coatings 21:07:16 applied to foods 21:07:16 2: a glossy finish on a fabric 21:07:16 This is in response to 21:07:17 2009-03-31.txt:20:40:25: I just do strict+warnings on top of every script, since I can't read the "use diagnostics;" error messages; they are so verbose, my eyes glazeth over. 21:07:17 [10 @more lines] 21:07:20 (MY EYES ARE SAVORY) 21:07:58 Bike: Ah, OK, but do you know how such a thing is used? I think you have said you wanted to enter state machines for this purpose? 21:08:46 fizzie: oh! would you mind providing me with that delicious-sounding Finnish delicacy? I'm always on the prowl to try out new ingredients :D 21:09:01 Sorry, I'm using them. 21:09:02 @wn savory 21:09:04 *** "savory" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 21:09:04 savory 21:09:04 adj 1: morally wholesome or acceptable; "a past that was 21:09:04 scarcely savory" [syn: {savory}, {savoury}] [ant: 21:09:04 {offensive}, {unsavory}, {unsavoury}] 21:09:06 [12 @more lines] 21:09:17 zzo38: i can't say i know the particulars of synthesis, no :( 21:10:20 How would you intend to enter them for this purpose, though, at least? 21:10:23 i can imagine specific algorithms for assigning state codes or whatever 21:11:03 In case you can program the state machine directly if it is applicable to the program 21:22:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:23:55 -!- Bike has joined. 21:25:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OCCULTED CHICKEN). 21:25:46 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:28:55 http://hs11.snstatic.fi/webkuva/taysi/960/1305764920260?ts=353 some people take this "gingerbread house" thing a bit further than others. 21:29:03 (That's the central railway station of Helsinki.) 21:29:54 (Well, I mean, yes, it's only a model.) 21:30:26 pretty sure i saw a picture in the newspaper recently of one that was hut-sized. 21:32:21 Probably the new world record. 21:32:58 (For the largest gingerbread house in terms of volume -- 39202 cubic feet.) 21:33:10 what we need is to get dubai involved somehow. 21:35:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:36:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:39:49 b_jonas: hm are you the same b_jonas as on the iwc forum? 21:41:52 oerjan: if you mean irregularwebcomics, then yes 21:42:08 yay 21:42:10 (I'm the majority of b_jonas-es from the web actually) 21:42:12 fizzie: I hope the green bits aren't mint 21:42:46 (now I'll have to wonder what bit of stupidity you found) 21:42:55 FreeFull: They're just sugar with green/black food dye. 21:43:03 b_jonas: oh it was something a-mazing hth 21:43:28 yes 21:44:16 * oerjan might point out he isn't actually registered on the forum, he's just lurked there for years. (hi Taneb!) 21:44:31 (Or I think something having to do with oxidized copper in real life.) 22:01:32 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:02:00 -!- tertu has joined. 22:05:40 fizzie: Actually, it's copper carbonate that's green 22:06:03 Sometimes, copper chloride 22:06:23 http://hs11.snstatic.fi/webkuva/taysi/960/1305764920260?ts=353 some people take this "gingerbread house" thing a bit further than others. <-- that is amazing 22:06:36 Sulfide and sulfate too 22:06:36 oerjan, I've sort of wandered away from the forum :( 22:06:43 (For the largest gingerbread house in terms of volume -- 39202 cubic feet.) <-- got a picture? 22:08:54 -!- tromp__ has joined. 22:10:22 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:10:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:12:27 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:16:50 -!- tromp_ has joined. 22:18:01 -!- tromp___ has joined. 22:19:19 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:21:03 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:21:14 Vorpal: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Guinness-certifies-world-s-largest-gingerbread-5028028.php is what I saw. 22:23:26 -!- tromp_ has joined. 22:25:25 -!- tromp___ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:30:07 I remember a logic puzzle with 5 cats that want to get outside but different combinations of them fight, and you have to find a way to get all of them outside without a fight 22:30:56 The answer is MEOW >:3 22:32:07 :( 22:32:24 I was wondering if anyone could remember the puzzle existing, and/or give me a link to it 22:34:20 that's max clique isn't it 22:34:52 i like cats 22:35:16 :3 22:48:43 What's a fun thing I can do with a server 22:49:17 play tennis 22:49:27 hugs 22:49:49 Taneb: irc, wobsite, stream music anywhere 22:49:53 what does "server" mean in this context 22:50:07 oerjan++ 22:50:25 shachaf, it's a shell server running I think Arch 22:50:33 oerjan: is the server the ball or the racket 22:50:34 ok so not a program like a web server 22:50:49 quintopia, it's the player 22:51:05 Taneb: shhh. that's not helping me woefully misunderstand his terrible pun 22:51:05 shachaf, no 22:52:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:52:40 At the moment it's hosting my esolangs page and I almost played nethack on it 22:52:53 play nethack on nethack.alt.org 22:53:06 I guess I could download XML dumps of the wiki 22:55:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:55:03 run a tor bridge node 22:58:46 -!- olsner has joined. 23:03:52 Run a tor hidden service selling all kinds of salacious stuffs for bitcoins. 23:04:50 fizzie: like doge road? :P 23:05:07 (except that's for dogecoin, but same idea) 23:06:22 Any kind of road. 23:06:43 All roads lead to Rome 23:07:31 they just called it 'doge road'? that's so boring. 23:07:46 what would you call it 23:07:58 "such paving" 23:08:01 i don't know, i'm sure i could find a historical road associated with dogs 23:08:04 "Doge Road is coming very TOR such good prices much profit wow many weed" yes that is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. 23:09:53 10:1 that guy gets arrested almost immediately. or its a scam. 23:10:25 i like to think nobody will give a shit, as is right and proper 23:11:41 Heh, I didn't really know that the way to buy dogecoins (and other such) tend to be in bitcoins. 23:14:39 indeed 23:14:46 but you can get doge for free right now 23:14:49 people just give it away 23:18:07 Perhaps someone should design some sort of metacoin that's automatically changed to the next big cryptocurrency, so that people don't need to keep track. 23:18:51 they call those mutual funds or something like that. 23:21:02 buggre all this for a larke coin 23:21:44 okokokokokok 23:22:02 okokoins are backed by oklopol. 23:22:53 -!- w00tles has joined. 23:24:34 anyone messes with okokoins, they get the ol one two! (gestures to scrawny mathematician arms) that's the Oklopol Guarantee (TM) (jingle) 23:39:26 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:49:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:52:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 2013-12-27: 00:23:54 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 00:26:30 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:39:10 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 00:45:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:46:28 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:47:02 -!- olsner has joined. 00:52:35 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:00:55 meanwhile in r/bitcoin http://mibpaste.com/uXYrCS 01:02:02 http://superuser.com/questions/693440/why-does-an-exe-file-not-appear-as-ones-and-zeros-in-a-text-editor-such-as-notep 01:02:24 the top answer's going to be sensible, isn't it 01:02:59 yep 01:03:46 imo too sensible 01:04:02 These answers are very long. / The simple answer is: Notepad tries to see the 0s and 1s as text, which is its job. It doesn't realize they are not text and just displays what it can, which is a big jumble of letters that make no sense. 01:04:12 nice painting. 01:04:14 ^ that's probably enough 01:04:26 1s, 0s, and whitespace 01:04:34 most of all it did not need an arthur dove painting to bring the point across 01:04:50 yeah it did 01:04:56 I was hoping there'd be a plausible-looking answer that's completely wrong near the top 01:05:06 but it's superuser, not yahoo! answers 01:05:15 anyway there is some nonexciting esolanging happening http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gs2#Commands "wip" 01:05:22 I saw that in recent changes 01:05:34 the from/to columns are uh halfway between forth stack diagram things and type signatures 01:05:41 http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/393975?_js=on&_new=true&obs=156302&q=1hq7D weird-ass mutant mushroom, via douglass_ 01:05:47 i should've maybe figured out which one i wanna use 01:06:09 kmc: nice fronds babe 01:06:13 :3 01:06:14 what the hell are those 01:09:44 one time i tried to download a .exe file from some strange server but instead of 0s and 1s it had 0s and 2s 01:10:02 almost broke my computer. F- would not download again 01:10:07 futurama joke 01:10:15 help 01:10:31 futumura joke?? 01:10:42 where 01:11:06 -!- tromp__ has joined. 01:11:31 my file had p's and q's 01:11:33 http://tech.karbassi.com/2008/01/15/futurama-benders-big-score-binary-joke/ ?? 01:11:42 "Now, if you take the whole thing by itself, it’s not a 16-bit code, but 32-bit. I believe IBM made a few super computers that handle 32-bit binary." 01:11:47 super 01:12:56 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:17:02 shachaf: I like sentences like "I believe IBM made a few super computers that handle 32-bit binary." because they're true, and yet make the speaker sound horrifically uninformed 01:21:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Knyte). 01:40:04 ais523: Do you have a collection of them? 01:40:13 no 01:49:00 Do you know about iNES mapper 90? It has many strange things that don't make sense, such as: bit reversed mode for PRG bank numbers, the ability to change $6000-$7FFF between open bus and ROM (not RAM), two different ways to set nametable mirroring (which one is used is both software-controlled and controlled by a jumper), IRQ "funky mode", ability to set direction of IRQ counter. 01:49:19 tell me more about the funk. 01:49:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:50:15 is the jumper user-accessible on the cart? 01:50:20 also what is nametable mirroring? 01:52:15 Nametable mirroring in the Famicom is used to determine how the CIRAM is mirrored, which changes the arrangement of the four background screens; for example, if the right screen and left screen are the same, or if the top screen and bottom screen are the same instead. However there are more complicated kinds two, these are just the two simple kinds of nametable mirroring. 01:52:53 I don't know if the jumper is user-accessible. I also don't know how the "funky mode" works. 02:04:33 `unidecode Ɛ 02:04:35 ​[U+0190 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER OPEN E] 02:14:27 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:16:05 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:16:18 -!- Bike has joined. 02:37:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:07:55 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 03:15:39 -!- conehead has joined. 03:34:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 03:40:02 I am in progress typing of Dungeons&Dragons game. I did play the game yesterday, in fact. But now there is a problem, but I do have a plan. 04:11:34 that... 04:11:54 What about that? 04:12:06 I'm trying to parse the first sentence 04:24:54 zzo38 Teaches Typing 04:28:24 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:29:23 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:43:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:48:01 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:48:11 -!- mauke has joined. 04:50:04 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:50:40 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:51:32 -!- preflex has joined. 05:08:35 :( at unmarked cabs 05:08:58 Unlike chess, planning ahead is much more difficult because of unknown information, but is just as important! 05:09:27 But, like in correspondence chess, there is enough time between sessions to think of it. 05:09:30 zzo38: how many non-attacking bishops can you place on a chessboard? 05:10:17 * Sgeo assumes the answer is greater than -1 05:10:29 quintopia: Do you mean like the queen puzzle, but only with diagonal moves? 05:10:40 yes 05:10:47 I don't know. 05:11:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:11:42 You could make the split between the dark squares and light squares, so I would think the answer would be some even number. 05:12:07 it is an even number :D 05:12:29 Sgeo: what about unmarked cabs 05:12:30 OK, I got that much correct! 05:12:36 also, you can fill an entire rank or file safely, so it's more than 8! 05:12:44 quintopia: no it's not 05:12:48 there are only 64 squares on a chessborad 05:12:49 (in fact, that's a good path to a solution) 05:12:51 *chessboard 05:12:53 kmc: cab company I was unfamiliar with sent a cab that was not obviously a cab 05:12:55 and 64 <<<<<< 8! 05:13:04 Made me nervous so called company to check that it was in fact my cab 05:13:14 coppro: hmm good point. 05:13:27 also, you can fill an entire rank or file safely, so it's more than 8!/7! 05:13:55 Also, unrelated to it being unmarked, the driver had me input the address into the GPS. If I were tech-illiterate, that would have really sucked 05:14:26 Yes I realized that too, although I just instead to consider only the dark squares, and then the same solution can be mirrored for white-colored squares. 05:14:27 quintopia: is it 14? 05:14:28 Sgeo: what a shit taxi company 05:14:47 Not helpful: Driver not speaking English, so GPS was also in another language 05:14:48 coppro: good jerb 05:14:53 Sgeo: was it numbered 1729 05:15:13 Sgeo: that's a bad omen 05:15:31 coppro: don't ask me to prove it, but i can see why it's intuitively optimal 05:15:52 quithe proof is easy 05:16:00 *quintopia: the 05:16:35 each color has 7 diagonals parallel to its main diagonal, so max 7 of each color 05:16:37 coppro: is it? not every bishop attacks the same number of squares 05:16:41 Also, ended up waiting over an hour for a bus because the bus I wanted was 10 minutes early 05:16:48 Sgeo: I hate that 05:16:58 perhaps the bus was on time and the world was 10 minutes late 05:17:21 I like trains. Trains don't show up so early you miss them 05:17:39 Train stations also have nice billboards indicating when the train is late 05:18:08 trains might show up early in rare circumstances. But they don't leave early 05:18:22 unlike busses, have of whom don't know what a timepoint is 05:18:31 (their drivers don't know either) 05:18:32 *storms into cab with knife* drive this train to cuba! 05:18:40 coppro: ah, so it does. i didn't know off the top of my head the number of diagonals of one color in one direction 05:19:29 I looked 05:19:34 cheating, I know 05:19:44 Sgeo: http://instagram.com/p/gWkKveSLwH/ 05:20:13 Nowhen in particular too 05:25:22 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:34:46 zzo38: http://jerkcity.com/_jerkcity5444.html 05:36:29 kmc: Why does the filename start with an underscore? 05:36:43 that is a fine question 05:36:47 compare & contrast with http://jerkcity.com/jerkcity5444.html 05:36:56 this is the web, it's a /resource/, not a file 05:37:25 O, that's what it means! 05:46:44 http://i.imgur.com/9skH9Qc.png 05:46:57 zzo38: pretty sure Bike was making a sarcastic comment about web development 05:47:29 kmc: ain't that the truth 05:48:26 Bike: can you figure out why i was searching for Oryza ruderalis? 05:54:43 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:00:33 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:00:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:04:22 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:09:29 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:40:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:42:22 `danddreclist 47 06:42:26 danddreclist 47: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 06:44:37 There it is! 06:46:38 I did think of the plan what to do next, although I think I will require someone to enchant an object with a spell to recall it to someone's hand if they speak the command word. 06:47:33 (It doesn't matter what the object is, as long as it can support things sitting on top.) 06:48:21 I did think of other ways not involving magical things, but they either involve combination locks, which they don't have, or otherwise will be too slow. 07:12:04 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:12:31 -!- augur has joined. 07:18:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:19:17 -!- w00tles has joined. 07:35:52 -!- Bike_ has joined. 07:38:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:42:42 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 07:42:42 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 07:42:43 -!- iamcal has quit (*.net *.split). 07:46:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:49:33 -!- realzies has joined. 07:49:40 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 07:56:55 -!- w00tles has joined. 08:05:38 -!- iamcal has joined. 08:23:31 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:27:08 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 08:30:15 -!- w00tles has joined. 08:38:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:42:59 -!- forzartus has joined. 08:44:06 -!- forzartus has left. 09:16:14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diameter#Diameter_symbol literally has detailed instructions on which keys to press in order to enter the wrong codepoint 09:21:55 hah 09:26:32 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 09:26:55 -!- w00tles has joined. 09:27:02 -!- w00tles has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 09:27:45 -!- w00tles has joined. 09:31:29 -!- ter2 has joined. 09:35:05 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:36:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:42:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:43:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 09:43:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:45:32 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:48:54 shachaf: On linux, altgr + o will give you ø, which is the letter rather than the diameter symbol 09:51:46 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:52:24 Codepoints don't really exist, only glyphs. (Some of the emoji glyphs are almost in the flesh.) 10:20:54 zzo38: how many non-attacking bishops can you place on a chessboard? <-- obvious upper bound, check. simple way of achieving it, check. 10:20:58 (mate) 10:21:23 ok, once you've split white and black squares. 10:23:42 Sorry, but your reply is a bit stale. 10:25:06 well i had to reply before getting to the spoilers, OBVIOYSLY 10:25:30 (obvious to boily) 10:53:20 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:55:13 oerjan: huh? that doesn't have an obvious upper bound 10:55:21 oerjan: not a sharp one at least 10:55:28 the upper bound is really non-obvious 10:55:48 the lower bound is, mind you 10:55:48 no it's not, once you count the diagonals 10:56:15 (unlike the rook and queen versions, which do have obvious sharp upper bounds) 10:57:21 each color has 7 diagonals parallel to its main diagonal, so max 7 of each color 10:57:38 i thought of the same thing before reading it 10:58:47 It depends on the size of the chessboard 10:59:07 Let me look up a standard sized one 10:59:25 Hmm, standard is 8*8 11:00:04 You can place at least 14 non-attacking bishops 11:00:34 I don't know if you can place more 11:00:47 no you can't 11:02:04 You can fill up one side and then almost fill up the opposite side except for the corners 11:02:24 you can place 14 such that there is precisely one on each downwards white diagonal and one on each upwards black diagonal. 11:03:04 e.g. in the way you said (which is also the way i found) 11:04:24 Technically, you could just completely fill the chessboard with white bishops 11:04:38 Since they are the same colour, they won't attack each other 11:05:07 I don't think that's what was meant though 11:05:46 you don't say 11:06:35 Assuming all bishops can attach each other, 14 11:07:08 -!- impomatic has joined. 11:09:09 bishops are scheming bastards 11:09:23 attack 11:10:07 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:10:37 perhaps bishops of the same color _can_ attack each other, and that's why they're safely kept on different colors. 11:10:47 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 11:10:47 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:11:35 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:11:43 it all makes sense now. 11:14:30 i think i've managed my first negative karma reddit comment. or alternatively, somehow managed to avoid any before now. 11:16:09 Can you link to it? 11:16:34 i somehow feel that would be vote cheating :P 11:16:41 (it's only at -1 though) 11:18:36 I just want to see what it is 11:19:25 what is it oerjan?? 11:19:44 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1tpxxk/my_math_teacher_posted_this_i_need_your_help_guys/ceaenhx?context=3 11:20:52 " Hmm, standard is 8*8" you don't know chess? 11:21:12 `? freefull 11:21:16 FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. 11:21:27 no room for chess 11:21:52 okay 11:21:54 i understand 11:23:00 oerjan: I can think of cases where the correct answer wouldn't be 0%, but the case on the board isn't one of those 11:23:37 i don't actually know where the karma thingie is shown 11:23:41 (nor what it is) 11:26:17 oklopol: just after the nickname 11:26:28 (also you bastards upvoted it :P) 11:27:31 =P 11:31:38 i suppose the ui doesn't use the term karma anywhere. 11:32:18 actually it's (mostly) translated to norwegian so i wouldn't really know. 11:32:52 What do you guys think of the Lamdu programmming language thing that was on reddit the other day 11:33:45 i got this "not real haskell" reaction 11:34:13 oerjan, a lot of things aren't real haskell 11:35:25 But I know what you mean 11:37:34 I am pondering making my caps lock into greek shift 11:37:56 Oooh, that sounds like a good idea 11:38:08 And then shift+capslock can be capslock 11:38:20 Or cyrillic 11:38:27 Or maybe make capslock be shiftlock, and then shift+capslock be greek shift 11:38:46 If I really want to write cyrillic I'll switch keyboard layouts 11:43:51 I think I just heard thunder 11:44:37 I want that Mandelbrot Blanket :-) 11:57:50 you want shift+capslock to be capital greek letters surely 12:04:27 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:21:37 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 12:44:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:47:09 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:55:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:00:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 13:04:39 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 13:06:18 Phantom_Hoover: If I want capitals I'll use shift when pressing the key 13:06:28 greek shift is a toggle I think 13:06:41 Maybe it's greek lock 13:06:44 I'd have to look it up 13:12:11 Hey, there is a new Mill Achitecture lecture video 13:18:53 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:19:29 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:30:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:32:56 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:33:32 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:39:33 -!- olsner has joined. 13:39:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:40:49 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 13:49:44 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:50:21 -!- boily has joined. 13:51:36 Do you like this kind of shogi variant? http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSunknownoffpiec 13:53:13 good zzorning38. I never variated my shōgi yet. 13:53:43 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 13:55:23 -!- boily has joined. 13:55:29 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:55:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:57:18 Hello 13:57:49 now, let's see if I barged in an ongoing conversation by correctly checking the logs... 14:05:39 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:07:26 -!- carado has joined. 14:07:51 hily 14:10:01 hintopia! 14:10:14 -!- yorick has joined. 14:10:23 Hoity-boily. 14:10:31 ... hoity-boily??? 14:11:13 bon matizzie. 14:11:37 It's like hoity-toity, but boilier. 14:11:38 i tried Bon Martin on a south african guy named...yeah 14:11:43 he didn't get it 14:14:00 fizzie: tmyk... 14:14:16 quintopia: 'tis a sad world where Martinses can't be bon martined... 14:17:32 he said that bon means sight in bantu languages, but can also be used as a greeting 14:17:40 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 14:23:03 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:25:14 -!- yours_truly has joined. 14:25:31 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:25:57 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:26:31 `relcome yours_truly 14:26:34 ​yours_truly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:37:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:43:11 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:45:41 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 14:50:58 -!- w00tles has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:51:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:10:38 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:20:25 Vorpal: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Guinness-certifies-world-s-largest-gingerbread-5028028.php is what I saw. <-- impressive, but not pure gingerbread... 15:20:35 I feel using wood is cheating 15:26:18 Yes, I think so too. 15:34:31 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 15:35:35 fizzie, I wonder what the largest "real" gingerbread house actually is 15:36:19 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:37:43 Well this is interesting, turning on compositing in the window manager setting improved window moving performance a lot 15:37:56 However, now resizing windows lags terribly 15:37:58 -_- 15:38:20 compositing still exists? 15:38:27 boily, guess so? 15:38:33 As opoosed to what? 15:38:48 I'm using MATE btw, so this is a metacity fork 15:38:54 as opposed to I thought it was a fad, and people got tired of all the wobbly windowing stuff. 15:39:28 boily, yeah, I wish I could turn off the drop shadows... 15:39:46 Can't find a setting for it 15:40:06 SteamOS has a xcompmgr-based compositor, or so I've heard. 15:40:12 Heh 15:42:23 Gunnerkrigg Court is getting creepy 15:42:31 That is a web comic right? 15:42:42 Yes 15:43:22 Hm, which custom android firmware to use... I would like to update from my old version of PAC (4.1.2) to something 4.3-based or such. Or at least 4.2. 15:44:15 omnirom? 15:46:10 Maybe a new PAC? 15:46:39 I see you're a PAC man. 15:46:55 fizzie, quite, the full name of the rom is actually PACman ROM 15:47:07 so that was not as funny as you thought :P 15:47:11 Aw. 15:47:31 fizzie, it is so called because it is a mix of Paranoid Android, AKOP and CyanogenMod 15:47:34 thus PAC 15:47:41 (Does Pac-Man have a driver's license that says "Man, Pac" on it?) 15:49:07 I wish I could cyanogenise my phone. it isn't supported :( 15:49:53 Oh god, using a third party custom kernel with the latest PAC doesn't work apparently. Screw that then 15:50:10 I might just stay on 4.1.2 instead... Since everything pretty much works as it is. 15:50:42 Do custom Android systems include a command-shell and the ability to modify the permissions of installed programs (rather than only to view them)? 15:51:16 zzo38, you can do that with xprivacy (an xposed framework module) on pretty much any non-MIUI system 15:51:50 What does MIUI mean? 15:52:10 IIRC that is the stock motorola GUI framework thingy 15:52:24 Or wait hm, no 15:52:58 Well it is the stock GUI that some phone manufacturer added anyway, forgot which one 15:53:12 Samsung has touchwiz, HTC has Sense. It is along those lines 15:54:46 zzo38, anyway, xposed framework is awesome, it basically allows runtime patching the entire system, by hooking into early startup code and basically loading a module into every dalvik (the android java vm) process. 15:57:01 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:00:24 boily, what phone is that? 16:00:43 Recurring annoyance: when booted to Windows, the two (spinning-disk) Linux drives keep getting woken up, even when set "offline" in disk management. Both when anything "special" is happening (Windows Update is checking for updates, Steam wants to install DirectX for the billionth time) but also more or less randomly a few times every day. 16:01:11 Hm 16:01:28 that is a bit weird 16:01:45 Oh, and is also spins up the disks when told to shut down or go to sleep. 16:01:50 Ouch 16:01:55 (Then it immediately spins them down again, naturally.) 16:02:08 fizzie, maybe it is checking SMART status wrt the random stuff? 16:02:21 Vorpal: HTC One V. 16:02:27 I had smartmontools on linux spin up the windows disk 16:02:31 boily, hm okay, no idea 16:02:39 (meanwhile, I'm compiling QT, and contributing to Climate Change...) 16:02:47 Hah 16:02:54 boily, gentoo? 16:03:28 Also you should totally buy some solar panels to offset your QT compiling 16:03:30 Vorpal: nah. stuck with wkhtmltopdf, and it won't output headers and footers if you don't use a custom version of QT. 16:03:50 what is wkhtmltopdf? 16:04:18 a very obscure utility that converts html files over to PDF. it's used by the new reporting engine in OpenERP. 16:04:39 (imho, a very, very stupid move, marginally better than what they had before.) 16:04:42 Never heard of OpenERP 16:04:47 Why not use CUPS to print to PDF... 16:04:53 From a browser 16:05:15 woah, woah! stop being logical! we're talking about Enterprise stuff here! 16:05:20 Oh okay 16:05:23 "wk" is presumably short for webkit? 16:05:28 fizzie: it is. 16:05:30 Vorpal: Oh, I also had the GTK save/open dialog annoyingly spin up the Windows disk in Linux, but now that it's a SSD I don't mind so much. 16:05:47 fizzie, Ah, use SSDs for EVERYTHING 16:06:01 I don't want to pay for 2*3 terabytes of SSD, really. 16:06:35 Hm I wonder what an 1 TB SSD costs 16:06:53 Holy shit 16:07:05 53758 for a PCI Express SSD 16:07:19 8527 for the cheapest 1 TB SATA SSD 16:07:28 are those in CAD? 16:07:36 SEK, I hope. 16:07:40 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:08:09 SEK yes 16:08:31 ~eval 8527 / 6.0819 16:08:33 Error (1): 16:08:35 ~eval 8527 / 6.0819 16:08:36 576.90 EUR (about 5200 SEK) for the cheapest 1TB SATA SSD (Samsung 840 EVO 1 TB 2.5" SATA3 Basic Retail) at the Finnish verkkokauppa.com shop. 16:08:37 1402.0289712096549 16:09:01 Hm the SSD in my work computer (Intel 520, 240 GB) costs 2075 16:09:29 But we are upgrading to Intel 520 with 480 GB storage soon, which cost 3683 16:09:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:09:50 I've seen some random guides on how to really disable a disk in Windows, but they all involved all kinds of nasty "uninstall drivers" kind of nonsense, and the one that seemed marginally less invasive didn't do anything. 16:10:54 I can only find PCI Express SSDs above 2 TB 16:10:57 no SATA onezsx 16:11:00 ones* 16:11:38 And a lot of the stuff are for people who actually want to keep their drive usable from Windows; I just want those completely turned off. 16:12:00 fizzie, you could unplug them? 16:12:31 That would involve opening the computer for every single OS switch. 16:12:49 Some kind of a front-panel power switch could work, if someone makes that kind of thing. 16:12:51 Install a hardware switch then. 16:12:51 Heh, Toshiba has a 1.6 TB SSD for around 50 000. SATA 16:13:10 fizzie, doubt it for SATA 16:13:15 custom drivers? 16:13:25 You could write custom chipset drivers for windows 16:13:34 That hid those disks 16:13:49 There was something you could do somewhat easily in device management to hide the disks, but then it doesn't ever spin them down either. 16:14:02 Well okay 16:15:17 I'm trying to figure out the point of Google Cloud Print... Can't find any 16:15:20 I think I saw some rather kludgly-looking batch file for a "programmatically spin down, then hide the disk" thing somewhere, though. 16:18:06 Would anyone here be interested in entering a Core War tournament? Also, if the tournament is held in Cambridge either in or near the computer museum, would anyone attend? 16:18:44 Huh, turning on compositing made full screen flash video work again??? 16:20:04 I like Flash. it has the loveliest, weirdestest bugs I ever seen. 16:22:35 boily, yes previously it was sluggish when playing full screen 16:29:47 -!- carado has joined. 16:31:34 caradhello. 16:41:50 -!- w00tles has joined. 16:42:00 -!- w00tles has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:42:42 -!- w00tles has joined. 16:58:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:00:20 -!- Bike has joined. 17:04:47 -!- tromp_ has joined. 17:09:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:09:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:11:41 -!- Bike has joined. 17:15:57 -!- olsner has joined. 17:16:29 -!- ter2 has changed nick to tertu. 17:17:28 hi Taneb 17:17:31 hi tertu 17:17:45 hey 17:18:01 what you been working on 17:18:51 Hi quintopia 17:19:22 hows life Taneb 17:19:31 Boring 17:19:52 I'm not too fond of the 5 days between Christmas and New Year's Eve 17:20:02 And I miss being at university 17:20:14 I've been playing Minecraft more than usual lately 17:20:48 programmed anything lately 17:20:56 Not anything interesting 17:21:03 I've been trying to learn Agda again 17:21:07 But it hasn't gone well 17:21:39 how do you go about learning a new lang 17:22:01 I don't know 17:22:11 I'm not very good at learning new things 17:22:50 I've been meaning to learn Rust, too 17:22:51 but you've learned things in the past. how? 17:23:18 Well, with Haskell, I started by following LYAH while messing with it in GHCi 17:23:55 Once I thought I was getting better, I started posting some code I had written in this channel and letting elliott, oerjan, and shachaf shout at me 17:24:03 And now I feel pretty good at Haskell 17:24:12 Having learnt from their criticisms 17:24:47 guess you can't do that with agda, there being no one here versed enough in it to shout at you 17:25:03 I think letting yourself mess around, but letting others help you make your mess neater really helps you to learn 17:25:20 why do you want to know agda? 17:25:30 I don't know 17:25:51 I don't even know what to do with Agda 17:26:10 that's a good enough reason. 17:26:12 well that might be your problem. if you don't know why you want to do it, you probably won't be very motivated to do it 17:26:23 Today I used to maybe prove that disjunction and conjunction formed a semiring 17:26:28 But then I don't know how it proved that 17:26:32 Or how I can use that proof 17:29:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:31:09 -!- Bike has joined. 17:33:29 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:36:03 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:39:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:41:31 -!- Bike has joined. 17:42:45 good morning #esoteric 17:43:09 @localtime kmc 17:43:09 Local time for kmc is Fri Dec 27 09:43:09 2013 17:43:21 i'm actually 1 hour ahead of there right now 17:43:22 good fternoon, kmc. 17:43:28 but i don't update the clock on my vps when i travel 17:43:37 Mountain Time? 17:43:43 ja 17:44:06 yesterday went for a drive here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CONM_Independence_monument_2.jpg 17:44:08 -!- ^v has joined. 17:44:44 Hello, all 17:44:46 -!- skrillex64 has joined. 17:46:11 kmc: that looks like a nice place. 17:47:49 64::: hey :::64 17:47:49 Taneb: suffering from universital cravings? 17:47:59 `relcome skrillex64 17:48:01 ​skrillex64: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:48:29 boily, I'm just suffering right now 17:49:44 boily: yep 17:49:46 * skrillex64 ( : m[T]x :: Closing Script ( º..ǹ... ) :: sCript : ) 17:50:20 I am installing Rust 90 miles away 17:50:21 -!- skrillex64 has quit. 17:50:54 This would be easier if I knew how to use Arch 17:51:00 what the technicolor fungot was that... 17:51:01 boily: same url as before for new jar up yet?) publically acessible) later i tried clisp ( interpreted) chicken scripts, is there any haskell builtin to test whether one number is within the scope of python, i do 17:51:10 `run echo 'ºêÒºÒÂ..ä»áÅéǹêÒÒ...' | iconv -t iso8859-1 | iconv -f tis-620 17:51:12 ​บ๊ายบาย..ไปแล้วน๊าา... 17:51:30 kmc: and how in fungot did you manage to guess it was tis-620... 17:51:30 boily: not at all, since there are 3 syntax for integer literals. the semantics are like scheme, but that's an unfair generalization 17:51:38 boily: chardet 17:51:45 "Goodbye to N๊aa ... .." 17:51:47 Taneb: Arch, as in the VCS, or as in the distro? 17:51:52 The distro 17:52:03 i was like "that can't be right" and then saw the .th hostname in the quit msg 17:52:08 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:52:16 It would probably be much easier if I knew pacman (the package manager, not the game or the character) 17:52:25 kmc: oh hm. I obviously failed my spot check there... 17:52:39 Where is .th? 17:52:46 thai land 17:52:51 Aaaaah 17:52:52 Taneb: well. pacman -Syu to make your system up-to-date, pacman -S for installing stuff. 17:52:53 .hth 17:53:00 boily, I'm not a sudo-er 17:53:23 I don't have sudo installed on my machine. I just “su”, then do the Stuff that has to be Done. 17:53:25 Is there a way I could do it locally or something like that 17:54:03 Frankly I'm glad I'm not a sudo-er, I could probably set the machine on fire 17:54:10 By accident 17:54:26 eeeeeh... yes. the answer is most definitely yes, but I don't know how. I suspect a mixture of ABS and pacman is going to be involved. 17:54:37 you should ask in #archlinux, or check the wiki. 17:55:21 I... can't be bothered 17:55:24 settings machines on fire is an unusual and memorable experience. I... uhm... welll... I'm now scared of PSUs. 17:55:26 `from-8bit ºêÒºÒÂ..ä»áÅéǹêÒÒ... 17:55:28 ​บ๊ายบาย..ไปแล้วน๊าา... 17:55:56 `from-8bit ðòå÷åä íåä÷åä 17:55:59 ​נעוקוה םוהקוה 17:56:07 `from-8bit ? 17:56:10 ​? 17:56:14 dammit. doesn't work. 17:56:29 kmc, you know Rust, right? If I show you potential future rust programs in the future would you critique them? 17:56:32 hmm that was supposed to be ПРЕВЕД МЕДВЕД 17:56:36 Taneb: sure! 17:57:06 Taneb: which version of the language & compiler are you using? I recommend sticking with master rather than the point releases, until 1.0 17:57:26 I guess it is pretty hard to heuristically distinguish national 8-bit codes 17:57:29 Taneb: if you go fetch a package's PKGBUILD, you can redirect the compilation to a local repo. 17:57:42 wonder if chardet uses any language-specific letter frequency data on long enough texts 17:57:46 kmc, 0.8 I think 17:58:02 `from-8bit should pass through ascii characters 17:58:04 should pass through ascii characters 17:58:05 Taneb: also, you could forget everything about packages, and just do “make && make install” to local from source, as in the Olden Days of Unix. 17:58:17 boily, that is what I am doing now 17:58:30 `from-8bit büt whát døe§ it dó with űtf-8 17:58:31 kmc: help what 17:58:33 iconv: illegal input sequence at position 30 \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 30 \ büt whát dře§ it dó with 17:58:38 But the source seems to be 16MB 17:58:49 And it is downloading sloooowlyyyyy 17:58:58 -!- conehead has joined. 17:58:59 oh 17:59:29 /home/keegan/proj/servo/servo/build.debug/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/src/compiler/rust/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/stage2/bin/rustc 0.9-pre (67d7be0 2013-10-29 12:02:59 -0700) 17:59:50 ^ i don't install the toolchains, just run them out of dirs 18:03:00 -!- tromp_ has joined. 18:07:02 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:09:18 Reading Wikipedia about Rust, "Other features from Haskell, such as higher-kinded polymorphism, are not yet supported." 18:09:27 Is that planned, or is it not going to happen 18:09:32 -!- yours_truly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:09:56 I don't know that it's "planned" exactly, but if somebody did the work we would be happy to merge it 18:10:18 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:11:04 that's a feature from haskell? 18:11:22 first list-comprehensions and now higher-kinded polymorphism! v. innovative. 18:11:37 I think right now the core team is focusing on getting lots of smaller stuff fixed for the imminent 1.0 release 18:12:03 HKP would be a pretty big change and is also backwards-compatible, so it's more likely to happen after 1.0 18:15:40 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 18:23:07 Taneb: note that polymorphism in Rust is implemented by compiling a separate version for each instantiation, which limits some of what can be done 18:23:38 for example I think one couldn't really support higher-rank types, i.e. foralls in function parameter types 18:23:54 imo jit 18:24:02 how's haskell do it 18:24:05 although you might be able to support types like runST :: (forall s. ST s a) -> a, because s is a phantom parameter to ST 18:24:35 Bike: values in GHC Haskell have a uniform representation; they are always a pointer to a heap object whose first word is a pointer to an "info table" 18:24:53 Bike: http://spl.smugmug.com/Humor/Lambdacats/i-XwKHSBM/2/O/boxed%20cat%20has%20a%20uniform%20representation.jpg 18:24:56 hth 18:24:56 so it dispatches at runtime/ 18:25:03 it's not dspatch even 18:25:07 It doesn't dispatch at all. 18:25:11 map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] has the same machine code regardless of what a and b are 18:25:13 It's just like a void * (except type-safe) 18:25:28 because they are known to be 1 word in size 18:25:43 and you can even force polymorphic values, with "seq" say, because that's done through that info table 18:26:08 whereas Rust supports passing structures of various sizes by value, and has several types of heap allocation and other stuff 18:26:11 This means that unboxed types like Int# aren't really first-class. 18:26:12 You can 18:26:13 oh i was thinking of typeclasses since i don't know anything 18:26:17 't write "id 5#" 18:26:22 and also the low level focus means you *want* to specialize your polymorphic functions to specific types 18:26:31 Bike: typeclasses are implemented by passing around a "dictionary" 18:26:59 @let data c *> a = c => Ctx a 18:26:59 Parse failed: Illegal class assertion 18:27:00 data EqDict a = EqDict { eq :: a -> a -> Bool } 18:27:00 :'( 18:27:31 :t (*>) 18:27:32 then a type like (Eq t) => Int -> t -> Int turns into EqDict t -> Int -> t -> Int 18:27:32 Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f b 18:28:12 (==) :: a -> a -> Bool turns into eq :: EqDict a -> a -> a -> Bool. 18:28:29 Bike: Scala has a mechanism for implicit parameters to functions, and one can use this to do typeclass-like things 18:28:56 the main extra thing you get with typeclasses is that there's only one value of type EqDict t in scope at a time, so to speak 18:29:03 Does that let you do things like instance Eq a => Eq [a]? 18:29:37 Bike: so if you build two binary search trees over element type T, you know they were built with the same Ord instance 18:29:45 which means the binary search tree library can support efficient merges 18:30:07 which you can't do when the ordering is an implicit parameter to every tree operation, with a value which could be different from time to time 18:30:22 Or the comparison function is part of the tree itself. 18:32:38 yeah 18:32:47 but then you need to compare comparison functions to merge trees 18:33:03 and extensional equality of functions is uncomputable of course -- but you might get away with intensional equality 18:33:04 Right. 18:34:35 Bike: in Rust it's even the case that the shape of Option depends on what T is 18:35:14 if T is a non-nullable pointer (e.g. ~S or @S or &S), Option is represented by a single pointer which might be null 18:35:30 if it's a nullable pointer or an int or a struct or something, it's represented the way variants usually are 18:35:45 with a tag word and a C-style union 18:36:24 does rust do fancy pointer tagging things 18:36:30 -!- tswett has joined. 18:36:30 don't believe so 18:36:35 although it gives you enough rope to do them yourself 18:36:38 Hey guys. 18:36:48 hi tswett 18:36:53 (we're not all guys btw) 18:37:03 I'm using "guy" in the looser sense. 18:37:16 well you don't singlehandedly decide what a word means 18:37:34 kmc, I'd say "guy" is becoming increasingly gender neutral, especially in the plural 18:37:50 there is still much discussion about this (e.g. http://storify.com/jvns/guys-guys-guys) so I think it's better to avoid assuming it's gender-neutral for now 18:37:56 but it's not a big deal or anything 18:38:51 "@b0rk In a personal context I also use "dude" regardless of gender but have been replacing it with gender-neutral "gurl" for balance lately." 18:38:58 gurl... 18:39:03 yeah wtf 18:39:10 GNU Url 18:42:27 I use "guys" with a gender-neutral meaning. 18:42:35 that's good 18:42:53 however not everyone will understand it that way, and I like to err on the side of not alienating people 18:42:57 Anyway, I smell an esolang. 18:43:05 again, it's not a big deal 18:43:14 Yeah, I guess it didn't occur to me that people might be alienated. 18:44:24 http://www.scribd.com/doc/193957988/Virgil-Bucks-The-Revolutionary-Cybercurrency-On-The-Net meanwhile, in r bitcoin 18:44:54 Bike: did you see https://medium.com/quinn-norton/f3db7e13e6e3 18:45:04 i apologize for not understanding anything about polymorphs 18:45:07 no 18:45:12 Bike: what about animorphs 18:46:07 never read animorphs 18:46:13 "Like everything the internet does, internet money is over-technical, over-engineered, probably not very well thought out, hilarious, profoundly male dominated, and eventually compared to Hitler" some good writing here 18:48:46 Bike: don't apologize for not knowing stuff :/ 18:48:56 Bike: it's... strangely spot-on. 18:49:27 this is a good article 18:49:28 (stares at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gs2#Commands) this is a lotta work 18:49:37 oh no i messed something up 18:49:46 don't do that 18:50:18 i guess i am profoundly middle class 18:50:51 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:53:04 * boily is thwarted by Qt's Reluctantness and Anti-Compilable Features 18:53:17 suburbs creep me out though 18:53:31 yup 18:55:12 i think they kind of remind me of the planet from a wrinkle in time 18:55:52 suffurbs. creepy, gloomy suburbs where every house is the same, every inflatable neighbour is the same, everything is drab and all you want is to get the fungout out. 18:56:06 s/fungout/fungot/ 18:56:06 boily: i logged on. :) i think mine predates yours 18:56:19 fungot: probably so. America is young. 18:56:59 fungot's is a predator 18:57:00 shachaf: process 1 killed. it's a nice city in june or something else? an office suite, perhaps, it's weird that if you never use " foo fnord" 18:57:39 Is there a file format that's as feature-rich as tar or cpio but random-access and well-supported? Help me out here... I am literally considering .zip.xz. 18:57:49 shachaf: http://25.media.tumblr.com/d72bee13510fed7fc967a18d5fbd97ba/tumblr_mye61rDDnV1r7mymoo1_1280.png 18:58:05 Gregor: recoils in disgust 18:58:16 Bike: help 18:58:22 Bike: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 18:58:44 What nice features do tar and cpio have? 18:58:57 Gregor: ÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆÆĦ! 18:59:02 tswett: Full support for all Unix garbage (modes, owner, etc) 18:59:29 I need something that can archive a Unix directory tree, but has a f***ing index. 18:59:33 Gregor: fuse with compression? 18:59:51 Just put each individual file into a tar file and then put all the tar files into whatever your archive file format is. 19:00:20 Whelp, I'm looking at a Bitcoin price graph, and now the long-term trend actually looks pretty clear. 19:00:25 Gregor: something like a .vmdk, btrfs-formatted, with lzo? 19:01:08 boily: That's... not terrible... enormously wasteful for a write-only filesystem, and requires root to create or extract which is a pain... 19:02:01 Gregor: you sure you need root? even with fuse and qemu and plenty of four-letter emulatory words? 19:02:40 (also, you could set-up a vagrant system, and create a zipping utility that scp stuff over to the VM) 19:03:00 boily: FUSE I can tolerate, if it needed qemu then that would defeat the purpose. I could just extract the whole archive in the time it'd take to launch a friggin' VM. 19:03:36 Looks like on average, the price has multiplied tenfold every ten months. And the longest it's ever gone without posting a gain is... a mere 21 months. 19:03:40 BUT. I SMELL AN ESOLANG. 19:03:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:03:53 There are a bunch of objects. Objects can create objects and send messages to objects. 19:04:33 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:04:51 * boily gives an arrow, a bat and a pit to tswett 19:05:16 Is it a crooked arrow? 19:06:44 -!- tromp_ has joined. 19:08:41 tswett: it is one that can travel one edge on a dodecahedron. 19:08:54 Sounds pretty crooked to me. 19:09:13 tswett, that language feels like my misunderstanding of Smalltalk 19:09:33 haha 19:09:44 tswett: http://wimrijnders.nl/other/befunge/wumpus.bf hth. 19:09:50 that reminds me of my idea to make an esolang which has all the properties beginners think Haskell has 19:09:53 Taneb: like Smalltalk, but with other stuff and without other stuff. Like, you know how Smalltalk message sends are really just procedure calls? These ones aren't. 19:10:09 kmc: sounds neat. What properties are those, again? 19:10:30 automatic memoization of functions 19:10:40 type system which separates pure and impure functions 19:11:03 also you have to solve a category theory exercise to do IO 19:12:07 CT is easy. understanding it is hard. 19:13:27 I'm still liking .zip.xz ... 19:13:32 (With zip -0 of course) 19:14:22 kmc: can you make monads actually be burritos twh 19:14:39 yes 19:16:55 So, lessee. Each object shall have one method and some local variables. There are a couple of things you can do. You can create another object. You can send a message to an object. And maybe you can use E's fancy "when" thing. 19:17:53 In E, when you send a message to an object using an "eventual send" statement, the statement returns immediately, returning a reference to the object's response. 19:18:32 Of course, by the time that happens, the object hasn't responded yet, so the reference isn't very usable. 19:18:44 But once the object actually responds, *then* the reference becomes usable. 19:18:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:20:03 `? twh 19:20:05 twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 19:20:20 * kmc wasn't expecting that to work 19:20:22 What's twh? 19:20:53 that would help 19:21:29 SQUASHFS! 19:21:30 What should I call this language... 19:21:31 That's the answer! 19:22:12 tswett: you should call your language “Gregor's Answer”. 19:22:25 Works for me. 19:26:58 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:29:18 That's... actually a good name for this language 19:31:17 >_< 19:32:36 Taneb: 'The name of the language is called "Haddocks' Eyes"' hth 19:33:00 So "Haddocks' Eyes" is the name of the name of the language? 19:33:20 most certainly not 19:38:00 So, wait. It is the case that "The song is called Ways and Means" and that "The song is A-sitting on a Gate", right? So, uh... 19:38:08 Lemme think, here... 19:38:29 What is your opinion of this kind of Famicom mapper? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Mapper_F 19:38:31 * oerjan hides behind a rock to avoid exploding brain matter 19:38:57 So, "Ways and Means" and "A-sitting on a Gate" are both names. Using a name consists of referring to the name's referent; mentioning a name consists of referring to the name. 19:39:20 * boily shuts himself in a maple lodge 19:40:04 All right. So, the phrasing gives the strong impression that the name "Ways and Means" is mentioned, whereas the name "A-sitting on a Gate" is used. 19:40:47 i am pretty sure the white knight would disagree with you. somehow. 19:41:35 It's possible that when he says "The song is called Ways and Means", he's actually using the name "Ways and Means", and thus asserting that what the song is called is the reference of the name "Ways and Means". 19:41:52 But, assuming my initial impression is correct... 19:42:17 The White Knight refers to the song using the phrase "A-sitting on a Gate", but asserts that it is called "Ways and Means", and that its name is "The Aged Aged Man". 19:42:41 * oerjan digs a tunnel to get further away from the inevitable explosion. 19:43:11 -!- ^v has joined. 19:44:38 So when referring to the song, there are three things we could reasonably call it: "A-sitting on the Gate" (what the Knight calls it), "Ways and Means" (what the Knight asserts that it is generally called), and "The Aged Aged Man" (what the Knight asserts its proper name is). 19:45:11 I think it makes the most sense to refer to the song as "Ways and Means", since if that's what the song is generally called, then that's presumably the most recognizable thing by which to call it. 19:45:36 Then, finally, the name "Haddocks' Eyes" refers to the name "The Aged Aged Man". 19:47:36 * quintopia explodes in oerjan's tunnel 19:48:06 the chännel has become #eroteric. 19:53:00 wat. 20:02:12 `? taneb 20:02:13 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards, and five genders. (See also: d-modules) 20:03:13 who invented Tanebventions 20:03:16 boily? 20:03:40 He coined the term 20:04:20 the master of chimærventions 20:12:54 Taneb has five genders, eh? 20:12:56 What are they? 20:13:00 «Isn't category theory defined as "objects and arrows"? And a monad is just the category of types (or so I read somewhere).» 20:14:05 You know, I can really only think of one name that has a name itself, and that's the tetragrammaton. 20:14:39 i hear objects are just morphisms on the category of noumenon 20:15:13 i also hear that the name of the rose is actually just "Rose". lovely woma 20:15:14 Concepts are just Kan extensions. 20:15:14 n 20:15:34 More like Tyler or like Lalonde? 20:15:43 lalonde 20:16:06 -!- tromp_ has joined. 20:17:55 i can't think of any either, other than the tetragrammaton and the one due to shakespeare 20:18:52 What's the one due to Shakespeare? 20:18:55 Macbeth? 20:19:13 a rose by any other name 20:19:16 shachaf: whatchaf 20:19:43 tswett, one of them is "male" 20:19:45 -!- conehead has joined. 20:19:49 The other four are secret 20:19:50 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1tr6ur/wolf_goat_cabbage_solving_simple_logic_problems/ gan 20:20:02 the article it links to is not much better 20:20:22 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:21:00 oh, apparently 'the name of the rose' isn't related to shakespeare, silly me 20:21:58 -!- polytone has changed nick to monotone. 20:23:12 and also i like how everyone seems to link to http://adit.io/posts/2013-04-17-functors,_applicatives,_and_monads_in_pictures.html 20:24:00 i guess people don't usually talk about names independently of their referents enough for the use of a name rather than "[referent]'s name" to be necessary 20:24:49 does anyone know the name of the wind kthx 20:24:55 "the wind" hth 20:24:59 * kmc takes a big hit from a bong shaped like douglass hofstadter's head 20:25:17 douglass_ hofstadter 20:25:22 c.c 20:26:20 Bike: imo come up with a name which names itself 20:26:27 tom 20:26:29 done 20:26:56 THE AUTONOMEN 20:29:25 s/OMEN/YM you greek-latin mixing fiend 20:30:01 is greek-latin like pig-latin 20:30:16 oerjan meant to say "you greek–latin mixing fiend". 20:30:25 It's a really easy typo to make. 20:30:27 shachaf: onay 20:30:52 tswett meant to say «oerjan meant to say "you greek—latin mixing friend".» 20:30:59 `unidecode – 20:31:01 ​[U+2013 EN DASH] 20:31:08 `unidecode — 20:31:10 ​[U+2014 EM DASH] 20:31:15 `unidecode r 20:31:17 ​[U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] 20:31:46 shachaf: you filthy offspring of unspecified gender of a dog of unspecified gender 20:32:01 `unidecode éé 20:32:03 ​[U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT] 20:32:07 are these genders included in taneb's secret list 20:32:18 oerjan: how should I know? 20:32:23 I will neither confirm or deny that 20:32:28 darn 20:32:47 I'm trying to think of a word or short phrase meaning "reference upon whose resolution a piece of code will be queued to execute". 20:33:27 thunk? 20:33:44 Hmm. 20:33:56 promise? 20:34:27 "Promise" here just means "unresolved reference". 20:34:30 both of those seem backwards somehow 20:40:03 Oh yeah, "nomen" is Latin, isn't it. 20:40:13 Ye 20:40:22 noumenanome 20:43:03 Whelp, I just finished writing the semantics for my unfinished version of Gregor's Answer. 20:43:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:44:04 `unidecode  20:44:05 ​[U+E000 DUNNO] 20:44:15 Maybe I should make a language called . 20:44:31 haha 20:44:36 `paste bin/unidecode 20:44:38 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/unidecode 20:44:44 awesome 20:44:46 The name of the language's name would, of course, be "Unicode private use character U+E000". 20:44:52 also for me that shows up as a penguin <3 20:44:55 a language whose name is f8ff in whatever encoding 20:45:30 How about , what does that show up as for you guys. 20:45:42 a rectangle 20:45:50 I wonder if there's a way I could copy an invalid code point to the clipboard... 20:46:10 Hmmmm. 20:46:20 øÿ 20:46:41 You know, I could probably set this text box's character encoding to Latin1. 20:47:12 for me  is a big squiggly thing that's like 5 times wider than a usual character 20:47:16 (proportional font natch) 20:48:08  is a benzene ring 20:48:19 `unidecode ÿø 20:48:21 ​[U+00FF LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS] [U+00F8 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH STROKE] 20:48:24 Aww. 20:48:26  is a keyboard key icon with a GNU on it 20:49:59 penguins, flowers, italicized greek, ligatures, cantillated hebrew, strikethrough latin, gnus, hangul jamo, georgian script (??), box drawin' characters 20:50:22 why ?? 20:50:28 cause I can't identify it for sure 20:50:31 without Effort 20:50:32 oh 20:50:57 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 20:52:32 -!- tswett_ has joined. 20:52:43 Ahoy. 20:52:51 are you a dried chicken wing 20:52:59 Who, 20:53:04 Er. 20:53:08 Who, me? 20:53:14 `unidecode 20:53:15 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in \ print u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode 20:53:27 Uh-huh. 20:53:42 `unidecode 20:53:44 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in \ print u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode 20:53:51 `unidecode øÿ 20:53:52 ​[U+00F8 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH STROKE] [U+00FF LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS] 20:54:00 what is hapen 20:54:03 Sump'm wunky. 20:55:47 Lemme see here. 20:55:51 -!- tswett_ has quit (Client Quit). 20:56:23 -!- tswett_ has joined. 20:56:34 tswett: ¡olé! 20:56:59 tswett: ¡olé! 20:57:07 Yeah baby. We're in business. 20:57:22 Bike: Somebody set us up the bomb. 20:57:24 `unidecode ¡é 20:57:26 ​[U+00A1 INVERTED EXCLAMATION MARK] [U+00E9 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE] 20:58:42 Now I kinda wonder, like, what if I, like... 20:58:58 smoked a bong /made out of/ hofstater's head? 20:59:28 That just gave me an error message. 21:00:39 I typed 猫 into the thing that's supposed to convert UTF-8 to Latin1. 21:00:48 Thing is, I guess that's not really possible. 21:01:07 it's not in latin1 is it 21:01:13 Nope. 21:01:13 or, in fact, latin 21:01:24 I don't think ¡ is Latin either, but it's in Latin1. 21:01:50 it's in a romance language at least. 21:02:09 How romantic. 21:02:31 `unidecode à 21:02:33 ​[U+00C3 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH TILDE] [U+0083 DUNNO] 21:02:59 `unidecode à 21:03:00 ​[U+00C3 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH TILDE] [U+0083 DUNNO] [U+00C2 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH CIRCUMFLEX] [U+0083 DUNNO] 21:03:31 -!- tswett_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:04:18 I did write a program, which can do some things including convert UTF-8 to Latin1. 21:04:42 `from-8bit 猫 21:04:44 iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 \ iconv: conversion from `None' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information. \ iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0 21:04:54 none encoding with left beef 21:05:41 Lessee, in raw binary, that's 11000011 01000011 11000010 01000011, but in UTF-8 that's 11000011 10000011 01000011 11000011 10000010 01000011. 21:05:59 Ah, nope, 8 is 1000, not 0100. 21:06:48 "raw" nothin, i need to see the outgoing square wave 21:07:05 back from an intense session of XML with . may I ask why are you converting cats? 21:07:27 So 11000011 is encoded as 11000011 10000011, and 10000011 is encoded as 11000010 10000011, and 11000010 is encoded as 11000011 10000010, and 10000010 is encoded as 11000010 10000010. Right? 21:07:43 Bike: on which medium? 21:08:06 twisted pair 21:08:10 also my band 21:08:46 Yeah, but which twisted pair? 21:09:24 the one from your computer to whatever 21:09:39 To my external hard drive? 21:10:06 All right, send me an oscilloscope and a spare USB Mini cable. 21:10:11 ok. asking why cats are twisted may not be the right enquiry. this conversation has drifted far away from my Earthly needs. I shall drink a glass of OJ, resume my album, and coast along. 21:11:54 µ isn't very Latin, but is also in Latin-1. 21:12:53 fizzie: Sure, but μ isn't. 21:13:43 I suppose the MICRO SIGN belongs to everyone. 21:13:48 Like space. 21:14:08 you know what sucks? µµg 21:14:09 fuck those 21:14:27 Micromicrograms? 21:14:35 yep 21:14:36 21:15:22 used by certain horrible people instead of nano- 21:15:37 or femtogram? w/e 21:16:30 Picogram, presumably. 21:17:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:18:04 fungot: do you use scruples and minims? 21:18:04 boily: it is. :p))) name)) 21:18:16 fizzie: your bot. it is mocking me. 21:18:29 fungot has no scruples 21:18:30 shachaf: i'm sure that all the cps in the first hl, it seems well suited to objects, not classes, lectures 21:19:57 fungot: what are hles? 21:19:57 boily: that kinda sucks 21:20:14 fungot: be nice to boily, fungot 21:20:14 shachaf: but if you're at ip=2, the interp will be in the " strong set", you have 1 message. 21:20:25 whoa 21:20:40 fungot: you've convinced me. niceness to boily is entirely gratuitous 21:20:40 shachaf: well anyway! this is classic :) anyone know a fast algorithm in c ( because i'll already have implementations of it 21:21:04 fizzie: your bot is rather full of itself 21:21:24 What else would it be full of? 21:21:24 wait, maybe this is the setup for a joke 21:21:35 fungot: yes, i know a fast algorithm in c 21:21:36 shachaf: bye? :p. 21:21:42 :p. 21:21:45 shachaf: bleh :P 21:21:50 Let's see if my plan what I have to do next in a Dungeons&Dragons game is good enough! 21:22:19 boily: Do YOU know what it is? 21:22:35 zzo38: the plan? 21:22:57 fungot: hey, you know, I really like hanging out with you. 21:22:57 tswett: the func kylew just refered to is the first argument 21:23:02 (btw, I DMed a bout of Paranoia last Sunday. it was deadly :D) 21:25:05 boily: Yes I mean the plan. (If you don't know, I can tell you, but maybe I forgot something important too) 21:25:37 (Such as, what happens in case of something other than what I expected, or am unable to do for some reason) 21:26:13 zzo38: could you tell me the plan that is meant, and the Somethings that are Othered, the Forgotten Expectations and Everything Else? 21:26:28 OK, I can try 21:27:53 What I need to do, is find an area of plains in the middle of nowhere with nobody else around, make some cage or walls or something so that it is possible to see and hear through but not to walk through, bury the anti-magic amulet upside-down, attached to a trapdoor, hidden with grass, slightly open so that when it is stepped on it will close, ... 21:28:26 upside-down? 21:28:52 ... Put another object underneath which will support it, and enchant it with a spell allowing anyone in range who speaks the command word to retrieve it, and then force the prisoner and captain into the cage, lock it, and run away, ... 21:30:22 is that a weird analog to the Schrödingcat? 21:31:01 ... Make some barrier or something to assure that they will not step on the patch of the grass where it is hidden until we run away, and then they will step into the circle to un-mind-switch, and the captain will then say something which happens to contain the command word (but he doesn't know that is what it is). 21:31:04 boily: No. 21:31:45 oh. I was fearing it wasn't as devious as it seemed. proceed with your Terrifying Plan, then... 21:33:01 This may require some psychology to know what we expect the captain to say and to manipulate the situation into such a phrase. 21:33:08 kmc, can you tell me why this won't compile? http://lpaste.net/3941835973981110272 21:33:26 can you tell me what the error message is? 21:34:02 But before all of that, we may need to handcuff them together. I have already tied up both of them, but that isn't good enough. 21:34:13 zzo38: a traditional Batman Gambit. 21:34:14 kmc, unexpected failure 21:34:24 internal compiler error?? 21:34:25 sucks 21:34:27 Aye 21:34:39 anyway I think you want: use std::io::{stdin, ReaderUtil}; ...; stdin.read_char() 21:34:48 I think it may be because I completely misread a lot of the tutorial 21:34:57 when a function is documented as taking self or &self etc, you call it using OOP method call syntax 21:35:01 boily: Yes I suppose it is a bit like a Batman Gambit, but far more confusing. 21:35:18 and to call such a method from a trait, you need to bring the trait into scope, even though the name isn't explicitly used 21:35:20 -!- glogbackup has joined. 21:35:25 Right 21:35:33 glelllolllolllelllogbackup. 21:35:47 zzo38: and why the requirement to the handcuffs? 21:36:08 boily: So that they are forced to remain next to each other. 21:36:28 Well, now it gives me an actual error 21:36:31 zzo38: indeed. only one trap, and you wouldn't want one of them staying untrapped, eh? 21:36:42 failed to find an implementation of trait std::io::Reader for extern "Rust" fn() -> @std::io::Reader:'static 21:37:37 oh you need to call stdin() 21:37:41 to get the object which represents stdin 21:37:43 i don't remember why :/ 21:37:57 you're using the old @-ful IO stuff 21:37:58 boily: Well, I intend to set the captain free afterward if the plan works correctly. But I won't free the other guy. 21:38:03 so all this code will be scrapped when you upgrade Rust 21:38:23 Serves me right for trying to learn an indev language :) 21:38:30 ayup 21:38:39 although the /concepts/ are pretty much fixed at this point 21:38:58 and the concepts are unique enough that they require some learning 21:39:10 it's not like learning Python when you know Ruby or whatever 21:39:20 zzo38: so you need an unhandcuffer somewhere. 21:39:41 boily: That will be easily enough to do afterward, I expect. 21:40:00 Well, my code works now 21:40:03 coool! 21:40:05 congratsneb 21:40:46 (trying to solve http://rosalind.info/problems/dna/ ) 21:41:47 But there are things to consider, such as the range of the anti-magic, which is 60ft. 21:42:13 hehh, it has "Translating RNA into Protein" but the actual problem is way easier than the title makes you think 21:42:18 lol 21:42:22 yeah write a protein folding simulator 21:42:40 Taneb: would you like style criticism on your code 21:42:59 Please 21:43:01 And it may be necessary to see what is happening from remotely, somehow. This is to see who is dead and who is switched and stuff like that. 21:43:04 cool little site though 21:43:30 Bike, for practising programming I'd rate it much higher than Euler 21:43:37 loop { match my_stdin.read_char() { '\n' => break, ... } } 21:43:41 that avoids the need for buf 21:43:52 Taneb: it's true, euler involves a lot more math 21:43:53 ~eval intercalate " " . map (show . length) . group . sort $ "AGCTTTTCATTCTGACTGCAACGGGCAATATGTCTCTGTGTGGATTAAAAAAAGAGTGTCTGATAGCAGC" 21:43:55 "20 12 17 21" 21:43:58 Since there is also the possibility that the prisoner is lying and he may be able to kill the captain. But, I do have a backup plan in that case too! 21:44:08 kmc, ooh, cunning 21:44:13 :t intercalate 21:44:14 [a] -> [[a]] -> [a] 21:44:24 zzo38: 60ft radius of AM? that's more than enough. 21:44:24 Did I miss anything else important, perhaps? 21:44:27 i think that may be cheating. 21:44:37 zzo38: and what is your contingency plan? 21:44:39 i might also use a hashmap rather than 4 variables, but that's something a matter of taste 21:44:58 zzo38: eeeeh... you really need a roof over your cage. 21:45:01 kmc, with only 4 variables, it doesn't feel worth it 21:45:03 also, totally impractical for sequences of realistic length :p 21:45:04 boily: Yes I know it is more than enough, but if it is too large, that can be a problem too; the exact range will be important. 21:45:05 Any more, and I'd switch 21:45:07 zzo38: also, dig-proof your trap. 21:45:36 in master rust there is println!(..) which does the fmt! for you 21:45:40 kmc: does rust refer to things by their implementations 21:45:41 O, yes I need the roof, I suppose. 21:45:41 also the formatting language has completely changed 21:45:44 http://rosalind.info/problems/mprt/ now that's more like it 21:45:47 shachaf: there are traits too 21:45:51 but i don't remember if hashmap uses the trait 21:45:51 i mean "hashmap" 21:46:04 i mean that there is a trait for unordered containers or w/e 21:46:04 oh maybe that's what you mean 21:46:09 And, how do you mean, dig-proof? It isn't really a trap; it is supposed to be a kind of defense mechanism. 21:46:12 yes 21:46:33 hey look! de bruijn! 21:46:45 edit distance is way down there tho 21:46:49 it's now more like Python's str.format method 21:47:04 i might have to do these 21:47:08 which is p. cool 21:47:52 it's cool how close bioinformatics is to information theory stuffs 21:48:03 My backup plan is that if the prisoner kills the captain, have someone go near the cage and speak another phrase which happens to contain the command word, and then call me and the royal wizard over, to deal with it. 21:48:03 zzo38: hmm... when we D&D, we always find a way to severely compromise the physical integrity of surrounding things, whatever material they may be made of. 21:48:15 I tend to rant about how format strings should be replaced with some richer data type 21:48:23 but I realized that you'd have to re-build all the internationalization tools 21:48:36 format strings are the bread and butter of i18n, which is largely performed by non-programmers 21:48:50 boily: Can you explain more about that please? 21:48:52 zzo38: so the intent is to have the prisonner die in a discreet manner, surrounded by Green Pastures. 21:48:57 you use format strings for internationalization? 21:49:11 the syntax used by Python .format() and new Rust fmt! allows the format string to permute its arguments, which is important for i18n 21:49:18 in that case why aren't they called forinternationalization strings 21:49:21 c.c 21:49:25 i blame Gracenotes 21:49:27 boily: NO. The intent is to force him to un-mind-switch with the captain; the captain wants his body back. 21:49:31 zzo38: explosions, magical mishaps, stupid self-sacrifices with energy buildups, mutations... 21:49:34 zzo38: oh. 21:49:39 hungarian fori18ns 21:49:43 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:49:55 that was a serious question i don't know about i18n 21:50:07 And in my plan I have just the only small window of magic in order to prevent other magical stuff. 21:50:09 Bike: yeah, someone has to translate all the strings used in the UI 21:50:25 and they'll often be format strings because stuff gets interpolated 21:50:33 The secondary objective is the prisoner to be dead. 21:50:44 the only thing i know about is that one C library that defines a _ macro or suchlike 21:50:50 and different languages put things in different orders sometimes 21:51:06 _(Bicycle) 21:51:11 bicyclidine 21:51:11 zzo38: AAAAAAAAAAH! sudden illumination. “mind switch.” I now understand. 21:51:27 `addquote zzo38: AAAAAAAAAAH! sudden illumination. “mind switch.” I now understand. 21:51:32 1149) zzo38: AAAAAAAAAAH! sudden illumination. “mind switch.” I now understand. 21:51:55 so you have println(_("fuck your shit")) and the _ takes care of making a list of what needs to be translated, and replacing it, or... whatever 21:52:02 squashfs is my new favorite archival format. 21:52:05 println isn't real c but, fuck it 21:52:20 #define println puts 21:52:25 yeah that one 21:52:33 #define create creat 21:52:42 kmc, final code: http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/dna.rs.txt any more tips/ 21:52:57 "apparently future rust does this nicer." i'm not sure about that :3 21:53:17 it looks good Taneb 21:53:31 :) 21:53:35 do we have a += operator? i forgot 21:53:43 :t (+=) 21:53:44 (Num a, MonadState s m) => ASetter' s a -> a -> m () 21:53:50 i think you don't need the semicolon after match { ... }; 21:53:56 cause it ends the enclosing block 21:54:21 what if during the month after february but before april, you could use march { ... } blocks 21:54:29 but it would be a syntax error otherwise 21:54:32 el oh el 21:55:03 kmc, there is a += 21:55:24 There is not a ++ 21:55:27 SCIENCE 21:55:34 i think for reasons 21:55:39 well, i mean, who likes ++ 21:55:39 hm i can't remember 21:55:43 ++-- 21:55:50 `karma ++ 21:55:54 ​++ has 0 karma. 21:56:00 (who's *crementing whom here??) 21:56:07 I do know that there was concern over letting people overload += because you might make x += y behave semantically differently from x = x + y, but you probably *do* want them to be different for efficiency 21:56:09 boily: Ah, but there is more! I will need to blindfold them at first, while arranging the area for the box in the grass. Since, we need to make them remain in the range of the anti-magic field. 21:56:25 say x and y are huge matrices, it is better to add the elements in-place if you can 21:56:43 kmc, that is still semantically equivalent, just not operationally, right? 21:57:07 but there's no way for the lang to verify that your += and + overloads are consistent 21:57:17 the C++ answer is "sucks to be you then" 21:57:28 but Rust people are less happy with that answer? 21:57:29 shrug 21:57:34 gotta go ttyl 21:58:11 zzo38: will you have to use timed, self-disintegrating blindfolds? 21:58:28 (meanwhile, disappearing toward some random movie.) 21:58:30 boily: No, removing them by hand should be OK. 21:58:43 zzo38: more reliable. 21:58:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HORROR CHICKEN). 21:58:52 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:59:11 Hopefully, do all of you others understand this plan now? 21:59:18 Or is it too confusing? 21:59:32 it makes sense to me 21:59:54 OK, good. 22:00:18 Did I miss anything, or is there another question to consider, or something else? There may be something I haven't anticipated yet. 22:00:49 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:03:08 Another program! 22:03:09 http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/rna.rs.txt 22:03:18 -!- carado has joined. 22:03:40 Please anyone make ANY criticism you can think of 22:03:58 do you not care about recieving invalid dna? 22:04:05 No 22:07:14 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:08:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:09:19 with something that simple is there much to criticize 22:09:37 Bike_, I want to make sure I'm not doing anything awful 22:09:51 I mean, in a Haskell program that long I could do like 100 awful things 22:12:25 well everything i can think of is boring stuff like 'what about lowercase letters' and CRLF handling 22:12:30 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:12:37 you could skip to making more general transducers i guess 22:13:05 Bike, the input is very restricted. Not sure about crlf handling, though 22:13:44 Taneb: That looks suspiciously like Rust 22:14:01 FreeFull, there is a good reason for that 22:14:15 in my amazingly awesome experience with bio lab code, line endings are an everpresent nightmare, so be prepared?? 22:14:36 Also I've had something in my eye for like two hours 22:14:47 Taneb: Also looks suspiciously like converting DNA to RNA in a Rosalind problem 22:15:05 I would have just used tr 22:15:17 right, general transducer. 22:15:49 FreeFull, my goal is to learn rust, not to solve Rosalind problems :) 22:16:05 i feel like i shoudl complain about 'converting' there since you're totally ignoring primary transcription 22:16:07 =P 22:16:14 Taneb: Project Euler too mathy? 22:16:32 FreeFull, Project Euler I find is awful for learning a language 22:16:52 Taneb: Right now, isn't it that what breaks out of the loop is an error? 22:16:58 That's not good 22:17:13 What? 22:17:34 Well, you've got an infinite loop with a match in it 22:17:41 And then a statement after that 22:18:14 I assume you mean for that statement to be reached at some point 22:18:15 break breaks out of the loop, rather than signaling an error 22:18:30 Oh, wait 22:18:40 I didn't notice that the \n case broke out of the loop 22:18:45 Disregard me, I'm derpy >_< 22:18:58 Taneb: What happens when the loop gets EOF? 22:20:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:23:10 -!- conehead has joined. 22:26:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:28:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:43:25 -!- pjotter has joined. 22:50:00 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:51:38 FreeFull, I am not sure 22:51:55 Taneb: Try it out, pipe it a file without a newline 22:51:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:52:28 Taneb: You could also handle lowercase input 22:53:05 Yeah, it fails if there isn't a newline 22:53:49 Well, you could try to fix that 22:55:49 I don't know where to begin :( 22:56:20 Yes I do 22:57:28 It... sort of works now 22:57:37 $ ./rna < bad 22:57:38 UUU���� 22:57:47 perfect 22:58:13 -!- pjotter has left. 22:58:25 what's it supposed to do 22:58:36 replace t's with u's 22:58:47 http://rosalind.info/problems/rna/ 22:58:53 apparently 22:59:17 it would be more useful if it replaced rna sequences with correctly folded sequences of amino acids! :P 22:59:34 there's a later one about turing rna into primary structure yes 22:59:39 turning* 23:00:07 i wonder if there's anything about regulatory networks and/or ribozyme kinda crapola 23:00:07 quintopia, baby steps 23:00:27 Anyway, the issue is that it can't tell if it's at eof until it's tried to read 23:00:36 And it's reading in UTF32 23:00:58 So, it tries to read a character, gets nonsense 4 times 23:01:08 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pseudoknot.svg so easy 23:02:07 In BNF, [] denotes something optional and {} denotes something repeated zero or more times, right? 23:02:23 kmc, library documentation is lacking in places 23:02:26 :( 23:02:35 'The general problem of predicting lowest free energy structures with pseudoknots has been shown to be NP-complete.[5][6]' sonova 23:03:38 i only know the reverse process, which you can do by dumping shit in bleacch 23:03:40 fuck you physics 23:04:52 i like that this website has the same name as my grandmother 23:05:24 your grandfather's name is wikipedia? 23:05:52 oh, rosalind.info 23:05:53 FreeFull, it works now :) 23:05:59 Yay 23:06:01 Can we see? 23:06:02 i said nothing about my grandfather, plus you can't talk about him cuz he's still alive 23:06:30 http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/rna.rs.txt 23:06:56 oops 23:07:26 I guess I accidentally duplicated the eof test 23:07:27 do you need that second branch/ 23:07:31 yea 23:07:39 The first one should be removed 23:08:02 Try now 23:08:06 eh, really? i'd remove the second 23:08:13 what happens on an empty file, for one 23:08:19 Nah, because it needs to have read a character to tell if it's eof 23:08:22 Rust is weird, man 23:08:29 that... what? 23:08:38 what happens on an empty file, then? 23:08:57 http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/0.8/std/io/trait.Reader.html#fn.eof 23:09:01 Bike, empty output 23:09:20 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gregor%27s_Answer – there, doesn't this spec suck. 23:09:45 ...ah, hm. 23:09:54 seems more like an error checkk. weird. 23:10:10 So, you can create objects, and send them messages, and such. 23:10:19 ....whiiiiich is exactly how feof works. 23:10:41 It would be nice if you could create an object representing a pair of two other objects. 23:11:11 shouldn't it just be the usual "object that understands fst and snd messages" shit 23:11:31 Bike: thing is, each object only has one method. 23:12:00 eh, so branch on message content? 23:12:12 There's no obvious way to branch. 23:13:21 tswett: needs example program 23:14:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:15:11 x{hel low orl d} – sets x to an object that, when called, returns nothing. 23:15:26 Slightly, slightly more interesting: 23:15:46 x{@} – sets x to an object that, when called, returns its argument. 23:17:10 Hm, here's an idea. 23:19:16 a{ i{@} yix xi@ y } 23:19:25 When called, returns whatever it returned the last time it was called. 23:20:01 Yeah, that'll do it, if you just expand it a little bit: a{ i{@} ziy yix xi@ y }. Returns whatever it returned the penultimate time it was called. 23:20:42 A two-element queue can certainly be used as an ordered pair. 23:21:30 "True" and "false" can be implemented as objects that take one of these queues and return either its first or its second element. 23:26:30 Next one 23:26:31 http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/revc.rs.txt 23:33:00 kmc, thoughts? 23:35:25 still think you could/should write general transduction 23:36:26 Bike, baby steps 23:36:55 you've practically done it anyway 23:39:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:42:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:45:08 http://joelgrus.com/2013/12/24/why-programming-language-x-is-unambiguously-better-than-programming-language-y/ more like loglan than klingon 23:49:41 Fiora: http://www.opticsinfobase.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-52-27-6735 this looks coolio 23:50:43 supposedly 'outperforms' jpeg 23:50:50 whatever that means 23:53:05 JPEG-2000 outperforms JPEG. Still nobody gives a shit. 23:54:11 did you know that JPEG supports arithmetic coding but nobody uses it because \rainbow{PATENTS} 23:55:10 yaaaaay 23:55:12 rainbow patents :'( 23:55:17 next they'll patent hugs and kittens 23:55:47 shachaf: i already did. super hard to enforce tho. 23:56:09 Rainbow patents, are they like a space-efficient way of patenting huge areas of patentable things? 23:57:40 Like a four-gig rainbow patent can cover all possible software patents up to 32 pages long and so on. 23:58:16 We claim: 1. A method whereby a process is applied in a circumstance, the process having been chosen with regard to the circumstance so as to achieve a result possessing some quality. 23:58:18 i feel like there's already a form for that at the patent office 23:58:30 2. The method of claim 1, where the quality is a desirable quality. 23:58:58 3. The method of claim 3, where the circumstance is the desirability of an object. 23:59:12 4. The method of claim 3, where the process creates the desired object. 23:59:20 did claim 3 just refer to itself 23:59:22 Uh, claim 3 should refer to claim 1, not claim 3. 23:59:48 5. The method of claim 1, where the process is chosen because of its similarity to another process. 2013-12-28: 00:00:10 6. The method of claim 5, where the second process is a process that has been successful in the past. 00:00:41 7. The method of claim 1, where the process is chosen based on an analysis of the predicted results of the process. 00:01:13 8. The method of claim 7, where the analysis involves deductive and/or inductive logic. 00:02:21 ok enough we get it 00:02:25 9. The method of claim 8, where the logic is used to infer— 00:02:29 All right. 00:02:50 Though, yeah, that one typo gives me an idea. 00:04:36 Perhaps by filing a patent on this claim, we could end up with a patent that could be enforced against anything: 00:04:39 1. The method of claim 1. 00:15:07 Is the irc log a valid repertory of prior art 00:15:45 I'd say it probably is, really. 00:29:34 tswett: is this a real patent? it should be 00:30:16 Submit it to the patent office and list me as a co-inventor. 00:38:25 Is there a file to download the entire SDL 1.x documentation into my computer? 00:42:44 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:45:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:45:55 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:44:47 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:29 ...I live within 50 miles of where half of my great-great grandparents were born 02:38:54 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:38:57 your family should get out more :P 03:04:02 -!- tromp__ has joined. 03:05:35 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:11:02 http://phys.org/news/2012-09-scientists-renowned-uncertainty-principle.html this... doesn't sound likely to be accurate 03:11:21 Does anyone have more information? 03:12:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:17:01 if i'm reading it right it's not actually talking about the momentum-position inequality 03:18:27 http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=6668117941979885066 anyway, more info for ya 03:18:39 i am unhappy that phys rev lett wants me to sign in just to see citations 03:19:06 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:19:57 kmc: why does anyone even like pg (reading responses to your hacker tweet) 03:20:30 he's smart, he understands his industry, and he is very good at pandering to young smart people with no perspective 03:20:34 "startup gospel" is a terrifying phrase 03:20:38 yep! 03:21:29 my impression of him is mostly from #lisp, because every few weeks a wide-eyed twenty-something comes in and talks about wanting to do everything like pg, and then leaves in a huff when we talk about bad style or whatever stupid thing 03:21:40 haha 03:21:46 yeah his Lisp book is... unorthodox 03:21:50 MACROS FOR EVERYTHING 03:21:56 YOU GET A MACRO! YOU GET A MACRO! EVERYONE GETS A MACRO! 03:22:07 i think even diehard lispers tend to acknowledge that, like, functions are also a p. cool way to abstract 03:22:10 and then they get like, offended when people say that, i may as well be spitting on muhammad 03:22:42 yeah the first thing people do in lisp (including myself...) is write an assload of worthless macros >_> 03:23:08 i think i wrote one to abstract calling web apis, a very function thing 03:23:51 i'm pretty sure my first lisp programs were stateless 03:23:54 anyway point is fuck that guy 03:24:18 point-free? 03:24:35 Real Hackers call it pointless 03:24:42 lol 03:25:54 also the actual reason i asked is there was a guy talking about how lispers shouldn't use vim, on this tweet about pg being a sexist git, and it's like dude no c'mon 03:26:05 yeah seriously 03:26:25 i start bashing pg and people are like "yeah he's not a REAL HACKER either! he didn't write enough codez" 03:26:28 -___- 03:26:40 well, it does seem like emacs gets tailored to lispers more. with lispbox and whatnot 03:26:55 that's not the point 03:27:13 it's pointless 03:27:21 the point is if i start complaining about hitler's policies re the romani you don't complain about his anti-smoking campaign being ineffective 03:27:54 hitler analogies are so tempting, every time. 03:28:34 but you know he could have been revolutionary. think how much better off the germans would have been if they'd started to quit smoking in the 30s! 03:29:01 Bike: he also banned tubas and decreased the compensation given to passengers on delayed reichsbahn trains! 03:29:05 #lessercrimesofthethirdreich 03:29:57 i thought "there is more to life than this" was from shakespeare or something but it turns out to be the name of a self-help book by a spirit talker, so, nevermind 03:30:02 what a douche 03:30:20 wait, how do you ban tubas 03:30:22 "Christ, what an asshole" 03:30:43 Bike: go around arresting people who play the tuba? how do you ban anything 03:31:23 i have to say, hitler was somewhat less nice to his fellow man than he could have been, wouldn't you say? 03:31:37 look i'm imagining this and i'm stuck on the idea of a 'tuba control board' a la the dea 03:31:51 Hitler is a jerk, Mussolini is a weenie 03:32:38 Bike: the German name would be 100x better 03:32:47 Bike: the GSP could have been sent to break up polka bands and smash the tuba 03:32:50 that's very true 03:33:29 i remember hearing something interesting slash not a joke about subversive jazz clubs in the reich, maybe they brought in tubas when they really wanted to flip off the powers that be 03:33:31 also i can't find a citation for this 03:33:34 maybe it was accordians instead 03:33:55 what! madness 03:34:21 Tubasteuerkarte 03:34:44 no wai 03:34:45 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:34:47 they wouldn't 03:34:58 accordions were the superpopularist 03:47:57 Sgeo: http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.4853 looks particularly relevant... maybe 03:55:16 -!- conehead has joined. 04:02:04 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:23 Bike: I have little idea what that's saying. Is it saying there are things similar to what Heisenberg covers, but their definitions weren't like that of Heisenberg, but this paper redefines stuff to make them match closer? 04:06:55 beats me 04:07:03 anyway i'm pretty sure this isn't about the actual inequality 04:24:04 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:31:01 -!- w00tles has joined. 04:41:06 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 04:47:09 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:47:16 -!- mauke_ has joined. 04:48:47 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:49:12 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:49:37 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 04:49:40 -!- mauke_ has changed nick to mauke. 04:55:05 -!- w00tles has joined. 04:56:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:12:04 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 05:14:01 -!- w00tles has joined. 05:14:23 Bike: y no retweet for "decal of Calvin pissing on that Game of Life glider logo" 05:15:06 i've seen too many of those with truck brands 05:20:04 that's the joke, or something 05:21:21 there's a trauma 05:22:20 well ok 05:24:25 Calvin and Muad'dib is gone 05:50:30 current status: http://candyaddict.com/blog/candy_images/meiji_chocorooms.jpg 05:51:07 hell yea 05:51:34 "Bottom line: if you think candies that look like mushrooms are irresistibly cute, then Chocorooms are for you." douglass_ is like YEP YEP YEP YEP 05:55:06 Are any C compilers supporting functions declared as "extern static"? I think not. 05:55:23 what do those mean 05:56:08 zzo38: Considering that static means "not exported", to support such a construct would be a direct violation of the C specification. 05:56:55 Gregor: Yes, that is what I would think. 05:57:17 Some might support having both keywords in a declaration, but it certainly wouldn't actually have both behaviors (since it can't) 06:00:27 Maybe I should specify in "Black-C", that it is allow "extern static", inside of a #master ... #endmaster block. If it is given the filename which is currently being compiled, then it is exported, otherwise it is external and always links to the named file, and other than that it acts like it is actually "static", even though it isn't. 06:01:35 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:03:23 Do you like this? 06:03:35 tell me more about Black-C and #master 06:05:35 For example if you write #master "plain.c" and have a bunch of things declared "extern static", they act like static for most purposes but are actually belonging to the file "plain.o" (and name-mangling is applied, only in such a circumstance). One purpose would be to allow implementing run-time type identifications. 06:05:57 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/black_c.txt 06:07:06 long long long 06:07:35 "Structures do not have to have any members. Their size is zero if so." this is incompatible with C++ fwiw 06:08:14 what's a "designated initializer"? 06:08:42 It isn't meant to be compatible with C++. However, that feature is compatible with GNU C. 06:08:58 It is meant to be compatible with C, not C++. 06:09:08 * kmc nods 06:10:22 This is describing "designated initializer": http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Designated-Inits.html 06:11:40 ah that 06:11:43 cool 06:12:34 int whitespace[256] = { [' '] = 1, ['\t'] = 1, ['\h'] = 1, ['\f'] = 1, ['\n'] = 1, ['\r'] = 1 }; 06:16:00 Yes, like that, too. 06:22:26 hmm... i see people store boolean values in ints like that a lot in C 06:23:23 isn't that usually a waste of space? why not store boolean values in chars and have them take up only one byte, guaranteed? 06:23:26 there isn't a distinct boolean type, so... 06:23:33 oh 06:24:57 That's a bitfield, so it's one bit per, not one byte. 06:25:12 'tisn't 06:25:24 bietfield conspiracy 06:25:25 I think people don't like char for function parameters because in the dark ages there were no function prototypes, so the chars would get embiggened to ints anyway 06:25:38 but that doesn't explain storing ints in an array like that 06:25:47 Oh, derp, misread that, never mind. 06:25:48 I think that would be considered bad style yeah 06:25:53 though on some machines it might be significantly faster 06:25:56 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 06:25:59 so it depends on your constraints 06:30:24 I would think it is good since then you can access it in a more easily kind of way, and yes since it can be faster, too 06:30:32 So I don't consider it bad style 06:31:37 it can be slower, too 06:32:31 Yes, depending what you are doing. 06:44:41 http://isup.me/downforeveryoneorjustme.com 06:44:46 That's just so wrong 06:45:35 Sgeo............................................................................................ 06:46:30 What, it's completely impossible for DNS to get screwed up so that downforeveryoneorjustme.com stops working but isup.me doesn't? 06:47:12 `quote domain name system 06:47:13 982) ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] Domain Name System [...] ♫ domain name system ♫ 06:49:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:50:49 -!- Bike has joined. 07:01:57 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 07:03:27 https://www.eff.org/document/quantum-surveillance-familiar-actors-and-possible-false-flags-syrian-malware-campaigns who needs crypto 07:04:39 there's a kid getting beheaded on slide 9 D: 07:05:41 yeah there's warnings 07:06:01 i probably shouldn't be in a position to compare and contrast that with the heart-eater video, but here i am 07:06:10 D: D: D: 07:12:10 trebuchets and heart eating 07:12:20 old forms of warfare never fully die out do they 07:12:30 see also iran & iraq bringing back trenches and poison gas in the 80s 07:12:46 it was actually a liver, iirc, they just marketed it as a heart 07:12:53 eating livers just doesn't shock the people any more 07:13:10 jeez if you can't trust the guy eating human organs who can you trust anymore 07:13:10 alt. jihadists aren't good at anatomy 07:13:25 i, personally, once mistook a bird's testicles for its lungs 07:13:32 eating carnivore livers is supposed to be pretty bad for you 07:13:41 i don't know if humans eat enough meat for that to be an issue 07:13:45 he just sort of nibbled it, really. 07:13:57 i'm uh, probably shouldn't go into /too/ much detail here huh 07:13:59 Bike: https://twitter.com/miuaf/status/416802172295053312 07:14:23 humans are omnivores. i'd expect human liver to be (pathogen risk aside) much much safer than polar bear liver. 07:15:14 kmc: there are some advantages to living down the street from a butcher 07:15:29 i think there are three or four specialty meat shops near me 07:16:05 as well as places like Low Cost Carnicería 07:16:08 or was it Lo Cost? 07:16:46 oh it's Low Cost Carnicería not to be confused with Lo-Cost Meat Market 07:22:15 is there also a Locust 07:23:31 -!- ^v has joined. 07:24:00 Locust is no longer a popular meat. 07:24:10 shame, really 07:24:34 Also locusts, technically, are not reliably available, as they are only the swarming phase of the insect's life cycle. 07:24:52 The non-swarming phase is an inoffensive grasshopper or crickety thing that looks totally different. 07:25:03 oh! someone actually knows that! i love you. 07:25:18 they're pretty easy to find in, like, madagascar though >_> 07:25:23 There are some locust species that may or may not be extinct, and we don't know because maybe they just haven't swarmed in the past hundred years. 07:25:48 (read about one in the Great Plains or maybe CO, forget the details) 07:25:48 I hacked Minecraft Overviewer to render from the center outwards instead of from the top left corner. An interrupted render that demonstrates it: http://heh.fi/tmp/minecraft-test/#/74/64/-184/-6/0/0 07:26:04 yeah, it was somewhere in the western US 07:26:14 kmc: did you read The Locusts by Niven and Barnes 07:26:19 that was a p. strange short story 07:26:21 kind of reminded me of the lilac-smelling worms around here that we thought were extinct for fifty years 07:27:51 WP says "Prior to its rediscovery in 2010, the worm was believed to give off a scent similar to that of the lily flower when handled[2] and that it was able to spit in self-defense;[3] however, the specimens captured did not exhibit these capabilities.[5]" 07:28:07 lily, lilac, w/e >_> 07:29:18 have not read that story 07:29:50 me either 07:31:51 I should try cricket sometime though. 07:32:23 Usually when I try some weird thing that I've been pondering and avoiding for years it turns out pretty good. Like corn smut. 07:33:24 http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/16288 this is what almost any talk about neural networks looks like 07:33:43 JAVA 07:41:40 * kmc looks up programming languages on Urban Dictionary 07:43:34 "Praising Java for fitting on many platforms is like praising anal sex for fitting both sexes." see, 07:43:41 these both seem like reasonable points to me. 07:49:05 better replace that definition with a fictional sex position 07:49:37 one involving coffee 07:50:19 i,i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_enema 07:50:20 i wonder if there's a good joke to be made about coffee, duality, and sex work 07:50:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ineffective_cancer_treatments 07:51:48 hm, i think 'coffee' 'enema' may be even higher on my 'why are these juxtaposed' list than 'decerebrate cat' 'anal sphincter' 07:52:49 "a popular medical system devised by Ryke Geerd Hamer (1935 – ), in which all disease is seen as deriving from emotional shock, and mainstream medicine is regarded as a conspiracy promulgated by Jews" 07:53:26 it's cool how on their faces it's hard to negatively compare these to 'tiny invisible animals are in your gut' 07:54:54 heh 07:55:00 tiny invisible jews 07:55:57 plot of my steampunk time travel novel 07:57:08 "an alternative medicine regime promoted by Hulda Regehr Clark (1928–2009), who (before her death from cancer) claimed it could cure many human diseases, including cancer" this is just sad. 08:00:59 Then she was probably wrong, if it didn't work for her. 08:01:33 it's possible 08:11:25 37-39 08:11:33 I wasn't supposed to say that. 08:12:12 D: 08:12:13 > 37 - 39 08:12:14 -2 08:12:17 also hizzie 08:12:34 The IRC input line is just too convenient for ephemeral notes. 08:13:43 Also uh kellmc no that does not work 08:14:01 in the middle? innovative. 08:14:43 Hekmco, perhaps. 08:16:55 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:22:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:26:48 goin' to sleep 08:26:50 night all 08:48:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:02:22 i thought "there is more to life than this" was from shakespeare or something but it turns out to be the name of a self-help book by a spirit talker, so, nevermind <-- i see no contradiction between the two substatements. although admittedly shakespeare does not seem to turn up in several pages of the google hits. (björk does.) 09:03:00 @tell bike i thought "there is more to life than this" was from shakespeare or something but it turns out to be the name of a self-help book by a spirit talker, so, nevermind <-- i see no contradiction between the two substatements. although admittedly shakespeare does not seem to turn up in several pages of the google hits. (björk does.) 09:03:00 Consider it noted. 09:04:33 @tell bike trying to add shakespeare just gives the "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." quote 09:04:33 Consider it noted. 09:07:20 @tell quintopia Tubasteuerkarte <-- i have a hunch "Karte" is the wrong kind of board here. 09:07:20 Consider it noted. 09:10:57 @tell quintopia Anyway a little experimentation in google translate finds the _clearly_ proper term: Tubaüberwachungsausschuß 09:10:57 Consider it noted. 09:11:17 -!- Sellyme has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:13:05 @tell quintopia supposedly s/ß/ss/ nowadays, but we're talking the third Reich here. 09:13:05 Consider it noted. 09:13:57 @tell quintopia Sie ist seit der Reform von 1996 nicht mehr korrekt. ;_; 09:13:58 Consider it noted. 09:29:11 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:03:43 ss, yeah 10:04:19 ß replaces ss when preceeded by a long vowel. 10:04:25 nowadays. 10:32:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:44:27 aßhole 10:59:20 ſ/ß/ss/ 11:01:53 i guess ß/A/B/ is NOP? 11:09:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:22:47 -!- w00tles has joined. 11:24:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:35:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:42:51 I had a great idea recently 11:43:14 you know how git produces long, meaningless hashes to name commits, which is much more complex than just using revision numbers? 11:43:23 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:43:31 and how it typically expresses them as abbreviated hashes, that only contain the first seven nybbles? 11:44:07 clearly, we need a rebase-like command that renumbers all the commits to have abbreviated hashes starting 0000001, 0000002, 0000003, etc. in order 11:44:23 the range of 7 nybbles is approximately 0 to 250 million 11:44:32 which is probably in the range of what a modern computer can bruteforce 11:44:38 Who’s the authority on revision numbers in a distributed setting? 11:44:51 well, it's like BASIC 11:44:57 you just renumber it whenever you feel like it 11:45:12 so everyone can be their own authority 11:45:43 so long as you do your changes via changing metadata, git's duplicated-tree detector will remove most of the bad effects of the changes in hashes 11:47:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:47:07 anyway this is a terrible idea 11:47:17 I just wanted to bring it up because this is a good channel to air terrible ideas in 11:47:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:54:30 ideas great and terrible, check 12:21:43 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 12:40:47 -!- olsner has joined. 12:41:09 hi fungot 12:41:09 olsner: or just eat veggies which takes more planning 12:41:18 yes, or that 12:42:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: but veggies are satanic, i just saw it on youtube!). 12:42:54 that sentence almost looked sensible until I tried to read it 12:44:34 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:45:13 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 12:45:13 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:46:32 yes, I think it should be "take more planning", since veggies is plural 12:47:00 grammar, fungot... grammar and s:es 12:47:00 olsner: tu mama esta fnord en fnord fnord ollenkaan, ko mie fnord mennä fnord. fnord 12:47:56 or the which could refer to the eating of vegetables? 12:48:32 ...or just eat your vegetables, which, admittedly, takes more planning. 12:48:54 yes 12:49:55 actually eating vegetables takes a surprising amount of planning right now 12:50:11 because they don't store very long and the supermarkets seem low on stock post-Christmas 12:50:26 i'm sure that's what fungot meant 12:50:26 oklopol: have you ever been to europe? what kind? what's it supposed to run for food... will show code after the if statement 12:50:55 Surprisingly relevant 12:51:13 yes i actually just visited my home 0 moments ago. (and france last week.) 12:51:59 oh dear, fungot brought back bad memories of being unable to find food I could eat in France 12:51:59 ais523: eval ( !-inf)) will just put the traveling ip to sleep 12:52:20 why was that hard? 12:52:22 !c printf("%d\n", !-(1.0/0.0)); 12:52:28 0 12:52:43 oklopol: because I have some dietary restrictions and pretty much everything in the supermarket either violated them, or needed some sort of utensil to prepare 12:52:45 i guess you are a veggieist, given your three last messages except the last 12:52:47 which weren't available in my hotel room 12:53:03 I'm not actually vegetarian, but I have a similarly restrictive diet 12:53:43 because of luls, religion or physiology? 12:53:49 when I was younger, I basically had to eat generic food paste until they figured out what I could eat or not 12:53:52 so physiology 12:54:15 (btw, the doctor said something along the lines of "you can tell if someone needs that stuff by whether they can tolerate eating it") 12:54:28 -!- Guest60043 has joined. 12:55:45 -!- Guest60043 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:55:50 although perhaps sensibly, they started testing cereals first, having rice and oats to fall back on helps a lot (also wheat and potatoes are almost perfectly OK too) 12:56:32 wow 12:56:36 i had no idea 12:56:49 in sweden you can find pickled potatoes that are ready to eat 12:56:52 actually most things turned out to be OK 12:57:01 and even more are OK in small quantities 12:57:06 so it doesn't take much concentration nowadays 12:57:37 the most commonly occurring problem is with milk/cheese (milk is OK in small quantities, especially if cooked, but causes trouble if there are a lot; cheese is worse) 12:57:50 actually I had to stop eating the croissants after a while because they were made with too much butter 12:59:56 My uncle as a gluten not-allergy-but-kind-of-like-an-allergy-we-have-no-idea-what-it-actually-is 13:02:20 That's kind of relevant 13:02:24 the normal gluten "allergy" is just intolerance, iirc 13:02:35 olsner, his is actually a mystery 13:02:46 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:02:52 olsner: I have intolerances, rather than allergies 13:02:54 I thought they were all mysterious, but there may be several different kinds anyway 13:03:18 the difference being a) it's much more quantity-dependent than with allergies; b) it's less likely to be life-threatening if you screw up 13:06:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:12:03 i only ate kebab in france 13:12:49 i mean like döner 13:13:03 there's an umlaut on that in French/Finnish? 13:13:17 in finnish it's called kebab 13:13:31 no, I mean döner 13:13:32 and i know there's an umlaut in germany where that word is used 13:13:42 there is no "döner" in finland 13:13:44 When someone says "kebab" to me I still think shish kebab 13:13:50 in france i think it was called kebab 13:13:51 Because we sometimes make them at home 13:14:02 but americans mean something else by that 13:14:27 i guess shish kebab 13:14:56 i don't know what it's called in america but maybe doner then? uk i have no idea about 13:15:13 (i don't even know if they have that in the us) 13:15:44 and in finland i haven't seen shish kebab anywhere 13:15:54 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:16:39 oklopol: we have both doner and shish in the UK, but no accents 13:16:48 I don't eat kebabs so I have no idea what the difference is, if any 13:17:01 I think most people think of doner first 13:17:48 afaik shish kebab is meat on a stick, and doner is meat between two loaves of bread (so in some sense in the hamburger family, although looks and tastes very different) 13:18:22 I think it has to be fried to be a kebab? 13:18:23 I think doner refers to the spinning blob of meat that the kebab is cut from 13:18:44 Taneb: i have had discussions with americans about kebab and they never work very well 13:18:53 (it comes from the turkish word for spinning, says wikipedia) 13:19:02 iirc kebab means something like cow? 13:19:18 or like beef 13:20:53 In American English, kebab with no qualification refers to shish kebab (Turkish: şiş kebap) cooked on a skewer,[1] whereas in Europe it refers to doner kebab, sliced meat served in a pita. 13:22:31 k probably not, but i seem to recall something meant something funny or surprising in some language. 13:22:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:22:50 According to Sevan Nişanyan, an etymologist of Turkish language, kebab is derived from the Arabic word "kabab" meaning "fry". 13:23:34 * oklopol finally decided to read the next sentence 13:26:37 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:29:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:35:15 -!- carado has joined. 13:43:27 -!- boily has joined. 13:43:46 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:45:23 -!- yorick has joined. 14:05:53 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:07:25 kmc, is there anything like scanf in Rust? 14:07:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:13:36 Taneb, I'm not kmc but I know there is no such thing, I needed to write my own scanner routine myself 14:13:45 :( 14:13:49 Thank you 14:14:35 good lifthrasiir-is-alive morning! 14:24:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:05:25 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:36:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:42:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:44:58 hoily 15:45:10 good kmorningc. 15:47:08 Bike: good investment opportunity! /r/dogecoin is the subreddit of the day! 15:48:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:57:18 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 16:03:42 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:10:23 I think I'll make altgr+g into dead greek 16:10:38 Since I can't find a greek shift or greek lock 16:10:53 guten morgen. 16:10:59 kmc, poke 16:11:52 Taneb: I think you need something more forceful than a poke in order to grab his attention. 16:11:56 * boily lends his mapole to Taneb 16:12:13 kmc, poke with a maypole 16:13:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:15:21 hm. doesn't work. 16:15:36 * boily lends Taneb a depleted-oak warhead mapole 16:16:08 kmc, poke with a depleted-oak warhead maypole 16:17:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:19:09 FreeFull: what are you messing with+ 16:19:11 ?* 16:19:11 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 16:19:13 hola 16:19:29 "There's also the issue that it's hard to carry a dead deer on a bicycle." -- douglass_ 16:20:23 kmc, I want to try and read two ints separated with a space from stdin. How do I go about that in Rust? 16:20:31 lambdabot answers to “v”? 16:20:56 i... don't do much IO 16:21:07 ask irc.mozilla.org #rust 16:21:40 I literally understand how to make HTTP requests and draw with OpenGL but not how to read two ints 16:21:56 :D 16:24:28 Aaah I am not used to having a bouncer 16:24:40 I have no idea how to connect to a new server through my bouncer 16:27:38 Ah, there we go 16:37:37 FireFly: I want to be able to write greek characters 16:37:43 Such as alpha or mu 16:37:48 Well, I can already write mu 16:40:04 FreeFull: with xkb you can abuse having a second Group and use ISO_Group_Latch to shift between them 16:40:18 that's what I do: https://bitbucket.org/firefly/dotfiles/src/tip/xkb/firefly.symbols?at=default 16:41:13 See lines 29 and 126-156 16:42:29 That could work too, but is more work than making altgr+g be dead_greek 16:42:41 And I probably won't be needing to write more than one greek symbol at once 16:43:13 Nice keyboard diagram 16:44:08 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:44:38 Fair enough 16:47:35 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 16:49:02 FireFly: woah. that is some intense keyboarding you got there! how do you compile and use it? 16:51:35 I just have /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/firefly symlink'd to it and configure my layout as 'firefly' 16:53:29 i.e. in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-evdev.conf I have 'Option "XkbLayout" "firefly"' 16:56:01 I shamelessly set my keyboard layout in .xinitrc >_>'... 16:56:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:58:55 (oh. it isn't C. it's a special format. no compilation necessary.) 17:00:03 It's a poorly-documented special format 17:00:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:00:16 http://www.charvolant.org/~doug/xkb/html/xkb.html is basically what I've found on it 17:01:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:02:04 and I suppose that the first xkb_symbols block declared in the file is the one you get by entering “setxkbmap ”, and that you get the other blocks with “setxkbmap -variant ”. 17:02:34 (or, maybe “default partial” means something. you never know.) 17:14:50 partial means that it's not defining a full layout, but only part of one (like, only the numpad area or only the letter keys or something) 17:15:03 I can't remember if default was honoured or if it always took the first oe 17:15:05 one* 17:46:43 "make altgr+g into dead greek" very philosophical. 17:46:54 (The joke is there are lots of dead Greek philosophers.) 17:49:33 `learn αλτγρ+γ is the national dead pastry of Greece. Goes great with a glass of ouzo! 17:49:39 I knew that. 17:49:53 now, let's see if I can latexify it... 17:50:00 Taneb: Which kind of a bounc-o-matic you chose? 17:50:05 (Just curious.) 17:50:41 fizzie, ZNC 17:50:47 Hokay. 17:54:56 Also I just came from the 60-year birthday party of my wife's father, and there was a (quasi-)Famous Band there, it was kind of surprising. People were surprised. (Not, like, famous famous, just sort of middlingly famous, I guess. The "50k twitter followers" kind of famous.) 17:56:23 (I guess that's how it's measured these days.) 17:59:48 Why would someone design an application, that requires network connectivy to close it 18:00:07 when you have to restart it, when it lost connectivity 18:10:03 boily: do you have a workplace overlooking the st. lawrence seaway 18:10:15 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:10:20 -!- ^v has joined. 18:11:43 boily: tell me a joke 18:12:59 @tell oerjan you don't have to use this to send me messages. i'm always in here and pings are recorded when i'm away. not that telling you this will stop you from annoying me with lambdabot messages. 18:12:59 Consider it noted. 18:14:12 quintopia: no. yes. 18:14:13 @tell quintopia Now you're just asking for it. 18:14:13 Consider it noted. 18:16:44 quintopia: here is a dadjoke while I try to remember a better one: He broke this one out when teaching me about tools. // "Okay, so this is the screwdriver, this is the wrenche, and this, well, you know the drill." 18:17:46 boily's dad joke level just increased. 18:21:04 quintopia: here is a Canadian joke: Tim Horton, famous hockey player for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and founder of the wildly famous donut and coffee store; Tim Hortons. One day he was driving through the streets of St. Catharines Ontario extremly drunk. He went under the lake St. Overpass at around 150Kmh in his car and hit a support column. He and his car were obliterated. To this day, you can still find 18:21:06 Tim-Bits everywhere. 18:27:09 LinearInterpol: some day, I'll be a dad. when my kids will misbehave, I'll scold them with Bad Monad Tutorials. 18:27:25 you are going to kill those kids. 18:27:38 That's taking it too far. 18:27:41 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 18:27:50 You should scold them by quoting fungot instead 18:27:51 FireFly: also every time the named let so you can use !whatever, where the number of characters 18:28:13 fungot: that's not terribly threatening though 18:28:14 FireFly: and how can the histogram of integer sizes have so many hits per page, if it is used for quite a while back, 18:30:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:30:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:31:25 I can see myself saying “HOW CAN THE HISTOGRAM OF INTEGER SIZES HAVE SO MANY HITS PER PAGE!” in a stern voice. that'll surely teach them. 18:33:20 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:34:40 ^style ct 18:34:40 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 18:34:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:34:49 fungot: Can that sword alone stop boily's kids from misbehaving? 18:34:49 fizzie: in the middle ages, sir slush!... you're gaspar, the guru of time! get moving! behold! the rainbow shell! 18:35:11 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:30 fungot: please answer your Creator. it's the least of the courtesies. 18:35:30 boily: these unique items make us invincible! 18:35:46 fungot: That's just a direct quote. 18:35:46 fizzie: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! sorry, fellas! i'm empty! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat a monster that roams the inner earth, absorbing the land's power and growing ever stronger the resemblance...uncanny! you guys leaving! 18:37:07 "hope it still leaves you hungry!" what a nice sentiment. 18:38:51 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:39:34 -!- Bike has joined. 18:41:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:42:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:45:21 fungot: can fizzie live on bread alone? 18:45:22 shachaf: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! go!! what about me. they just might be the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 18:45:34 wow boring say something new 18:45:44 ^style 18:45:45 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 18:45:53 speeches 18:45:56 ^style speeches 18:45:57 Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) 18:46:25 There's not that much data in the ct style. 18:46:29 fungot: let's play the speech recognition game 18:46:30 shachaf: when i appeared before a committee of twenty-one members should be given to the lecture platform and tell all about it. 18:46:39 fizzie is an expert 18:47:07 fungot: I AM TALKING VERY SLOWLY AND CLEARLY CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ME 18:47:08 fizzie: it suggests melancholy reflections, in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from the exercise of that profession is, that he remained through his whole career will not be adequately remunerated if he is to answer on the part of the subject? he is, wrote only one letter to the clergy?" 18:47:26 no fizzie you have to recognize fungot's speeches 18:47:26 shachaf: ii. to constituents. ( arbroath, october 21, 1907) 18:47:49 wow, spoilsport 18:48:09 Well, I think that last one was that one from Arbroath, October 21, 1907. 18:48:27 I don't remember what went into "speeches". 18:50:18 don't you have the raw files laying around? 18:51:24 or lieing. I can't remember for the fungot of me what is the correct verb. 18:51:25 boily: from a letter to wm. h. rogers by the business men of norfolk, fnord. power, etc. 18:51:45 fnord. power. ayn rand. fungot. rogers. 18:51:46 boily: " still as you rise, the state of missouri. i have not received more than i deserve, is this a sort of fnord, brought into the house of commons 18:51:57 The around-laying is a lie 18:52:26 fungot: fnord, in the house of commons?! 18:52:26 FireFly: but in the place of your retiring president. i shall be surprised to hear the judge, as i have told you what he knows. we have regulated that which we should be affected with anything, he must go a hundred and fifty years ago all roads in new england who still continued to face the facts. 19:27:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:29:29 @messages-flood 19:29:29 quintopia said 1h 16m 30s ago: you don't have to use this to send me messages. i'm always in here and pings are recorded when i'm away. not that telling you this will stop you from annoying me with lambdabot messages. 19:29:55 quintopia: depends on if i can remember it. 19:33:15 quintopia: i don't trust people in general to check whether they've had pings. 19:34:27 quintopia: also i have a bit of ocp?d about information getting lost. 19:40:17 ~duck ocd 19:40:18 ocd definition: obsessive-compulsive disorder. 19:42:16 ~duck fomo 19:42:16 --- No relevant information 19:42:20 ~duck FOMO 19:42:20 --- No relevant information 19:42:32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomo 19:43:57 fancy 19:46:43 kmc, poke with a depleted-oak warhead maypole <-- * oerjan smells an evil autocorrect 19:50:34 or a joek. 19:50:56 * boily imagines a fantasy battlescape, where the Chimæric Words struggle against the Evil Autocorrectians 19:51:20 * oerjan throws Bike in gaol 19:51:22 oerjan: horatio is what i was thinking of anyway 19:51:33 yay 19:52:43 i'm so deep. 20:00:24 `unidecode ++ 20:00:27 ​[U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] 20:00:43 http://lolmythesis.com/ 20:00:47 somehow they looked different in my browser. 20:00:52 a good blog 20:01:33 "Built software development tools for an alternate reality that forked off in 1980." hey, it's sgeo 20:02:11 kind of wish they'd link the actual paper but i guess that fucks with anonymity and also noone reads theses 20:02:20 do you guys think we can spot fizzie's thesis in there? 20:02:37 "Rats like cocaine", i bet 20:03:06 fizzie: what are you working on, again? 20:03:25 Bike: also all PL research 20:04:01 "Anselm’s ontological proof for God’s existence completely fails because he literally didn’t understand basic grammar." 20:04:11 lol 20:05:10 Grammar is the problem? 20:05:12 “Lasers make really pretty shit when you pass them through funky glass. Also, chemistry makes pretty colors.” ← sounds a lot like my bro's internship. 20:06:34 "You can’t understand what hillly cities look like in two dimensions. 20:07:22 Taneb: oh I think I forgot to respond to your poke, what was it? 20:07:50 oooooh! one from Université du Québec à Montréal! “Money is a much more complicated thing than you think it is and the modern financial system is in the process of screwing it real good.” 20:07:54 "Brain cells are really cool. Zebrafish. People have schizophrenia. Count ALL THE THINGS. Cell death. Fish death. STERILE! Significance. Yeah." see now we're talking 20:08:34 "Also, 10 nanometers sounds really big now" 20:11:06 I like the one about tricky meditation. I think I can pull that one off in our next RPG campaign. :D 20:12:54 Tricky meditation? 20:13:17 zzo38: “If you want to trick someone into meditating, all you have to do is turn the lights completely off, suspend their body, and get them to DJ ambient sounds using their breath.” 20:14:02 boily: Would they need to know DJ? 20:14:16 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:14:29 "we should all spend ages investigating a phenomenon in a non ecologically valid manner and then conclude that we found out nothing about it" there's a half-decent chance i know who submitted this one... 20:15:12 zzo38: minor detail. I'll wing it over either a fortitude or a nature check. yeah. probably going to go with the nature check. 20:15:15 boily: Reech specognition. 20:16:17 boily: OK 20:16:19 fizzie: that one sounds like a mahjong declaration... 20:16:59 zzo38: as long as I entertain the GM, and can write something nonsensical in the Journals, it'll slide like a hot knife in a pound of yak butter. 20:17:08 boily: And I lost a couple of them datasets that went into fungot accidentally. Some I still have. 20:17:08 fizzie: orestes, the greek highwayman. the crimes were not all the safeguards of liberty known in civilized and humane jurisprudence to be introduced, so that before i got started. it takes a genius in compression to compact as many facts as that. 20:18:13 fungot: very misfortune. such disgrace. 20:18:13 boily: caesar lifted his head at the salutation. his air of deep abstraction fnord and he found one which united all that was stately and venerable in the antique manners, without fnord is of immemorial antiquity among us. it does not break down or derange the scheme of bringing our court to a resemblance to the neighbouring monarchies, it was not in the inns of court and in the unfettered exercise of their own mother tongue, t 20:18:31 ^style 20:18:32 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches* ss wp youtube 20:18:35 ^style irc 20:18:36 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 20:19:03 "p > 0.05" 20:19:22 or lieing. I can't remember for the fungot of me what is the correct verb. <-- i suspect "lying" hth 20:19:22 oerjan: probably nothing like what you may have been due to these flaws i will not implement fnord do not fnord on this 20:19:50 boily: Write something nonsensical in the Journals? 20:19:53 "i will not implement fnord do not fnord on this" is a good motto to live by. 20:20:52 zzo38: I'm the Secretary of Our Campaigns, writing down everything Stupid we do, in a... uhm... deconstructed manner. 20:20:56 fnord not lest you be fnorded 20:22:25 boily: O, OK. Well, in the D&D game I am in, I type everything, even if it isn't stupid. 20:23:08 (I also record the character sheets) 20:23:51 But I try to be sufficiently accurate so if I made some mistake anyone can notice, I should fix it. 20:24:28 What if only one person can notice it? 20:25:05 shachaf: It doesn't matter as long as they can tell me about it. 20:25:16 FNORD! 20:25:16 zzo38: I think I sent you some character sheets some time ago, didn't I? 20:25:16 then it's not a mistake. 20:25:35 (also, 2 minute lag. interesting effect in the logs...) 20:26:15 boily: I think you may have done, but I didn't keep the copy. 20:27:19 Do you keep on computer and print it out, or synchronize the copy in the computer with the paper like I did instead? 20:27:52 eeeeeeh... my GM and/or another player does that. 20:29:05 However, I need to fix the macro file so that it will split the spell levels into multiple rows if necessary, which it is. 20:38:56 Now I realized I also failed to mention how many 5th-level slots I have. 20:54:36 "Too much weather to explain in just nine words--maybe in twelve--nope, not even in seventeen." 20:54:57 I think the only segment of The Onion that I really dislike are the audio reports 20:58:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:59:50 someone badly needs our help http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20817113/how-to-read-character-in-whitespace-language 21:01:49 haskell compiler 5.02??? 21:01:58 one might guess that stackoverflow doesn't handle tabs well. 21:02:33 I improved the page layout for the character sheets now. 21:03:03 is there a better haskell implementation now? 21:03:19 when I looked at the whitespace interpreter, it used lists for *everything* 21:03:23 boily: well it's the one the implementation is mentioned to work with... 21:03:26 hmaukello. 21:03:33 opcodes? list. 21:03:37 oerjan: yes, but... GHC 7.6? 21:03:38 stacks? list. 21:03:47 dynamic memory? list. 21:04:09 and it used integer indices for everything, so just stepping through the opcodes was O(n²) 21:04:19 boily: with the way ghc has changed the current ghc might very well not compile whitespace. not that i've tested. 21:04:58 oerjan: oh. as in, directly compiling whitespace with no haskell intermediary? 21:05:29 mauke: i do not suspect efficiency was a major consideration. 21:05:43 yes, but the code really was stupidly slow 21:06:05 it made solving spoj.pl exercises in whitespace close to impossible 21:07:31 mauke: ok lists and indexing is of course stupid. 21:09:02 so anyway, I wrote an assembler/disassembler and a (still stupid but hella) faster interpreter 21:09:59 do you have a link 21:10:42 so we can add it to esolang. 21:11:27 mauke: did someone `relcome you yet? 21:11:41 boily: probably. was that the one with colors? 21:12:42 hm wikipedia has a nice github link 21:12:56 mauke: if you identify `relcomming with colours, then yes. 21:13:11 http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/whitespace/ but that's not a permanent link 21:14:42 mauke: is yours in the github collection? i added that instead. 21:15:13 what github collection? 21:15:20 i'm getting too good at this social media thing 21:15:23 https://github.com/hostilefork/whitespacers/ 21:15:25 can't trust my opinions if they're too popular 21:16:31 oerjan: no, it's not in there 21:16:32 oerjan: oh. as in, directly compiling whitespace with no haskell intermediary? <-- no, as in compiling the whitespace interpreter 21:18:00 beuh. I am disappoint. 21:18:28 kmc: how would you rate your own trustiness on the Fungot-Ørjan scale? 21:18:32 it's from 2003 and seems to be plain haskell 98. 21:18:58 wait, i'm on the opposite side of fungot? 21:18:58 oerjan: though i admit it's not exactly quoted, but very important, i've just been trying to find 21:19:18 fungot: have you heard of a man called markov? 21:19:19 mauke: telnet irc.freenode.net 6667 -c unlambda blah blah blah 21:20:11 mauke: fungot is kinda the mascot of the channel. 21:20:11 boily: i suggest c and/ or 21:20:22 mauke: also c, according to it. 21:21:23 fungot: i am not convinced that telnet command works. 21:21:23 oerjan: context fnord input); fnord fnord dove fog. 21:21:48 fungot: print STDOUT q / Just another Perl hacker, / unless $spring 21:21:48 mauke: come on! 21:22:37 fungot: do you see the fnords? 21:22:37 kmc: i'm not voicing a concern, i wouldn't try to psychoanalyze you all the answers! 21:24:04 mauke: as you can see, the bot is strangely sentient. 21:25:34 fungot: thanks, I hate it when people do that 21:25:34 kmc: fnord not mainstream programs? :) i use the precise gc do better? i want to 21:27:40 that store function is something to behold. 21:34:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:39:24 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:40:17 -!- tertu has joined. 21:48:16 Hm, fizzie you there? You have some ffmpeg-fu right? 21:48:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FOOOOOOOOD!). 21:48:34 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:49:25 I've done some things with it, but maybe "-fu" is overstating things. 21:49:47 I basically have a single large music file (mp3) and a list of timecodes and want to split the file at those time codes. 21:50:03 Also I have Debian so not really real ffmepg 21:50:12 but avcode or whatever it is called 21:50:32 "avconv", and I'm not entirely sure you can convince avconv to do it losslessly. 21:50:42 Could you do it with ffmpeg? 21:50:53 I could build the real deal if that is required 21:51:20 They don't really differ all that much. And it's possible it's smart enough to do it, I'm just not quite sure. 21:53:41 It would be something like avconv -ss 123 -t 42 -i input.mp3 -codec copy output.mp3 to take a snippet of 42 seconds starting at 123 seconds in. 21:53:51 Oh yeah I forgot, I built ffmpeg into ~/local/ffmpeg some time ago 21:53:56 So I do have the real deal 21:54:43 fizzie, Ah, so time to write a program to compute a time code like 1:20:23:41 Start of this section\n1:21:... and turn it into that 21:54:52 Python script time! 21:55:06 Both arguments can take 1:2:3.4 hour:minute:second.fraction formats. 21:55:20 (But you would still need to compute the duration between two timestamps.) 21:55:24 Right 21:55:28 So still needs a script 21:55:58 Also I had terrible experience with -codec copy in the past not doing what I want 21:56:05 I'll give it a try 21:56:21 sox can extract something given absolute start and end positions, if I recall correctly, but I'm reasonably sure sox especially won't do it without re-encoding. 21:56:34 Sounds likely 21:57:17 By the way, after I fixed my glx kernel module (it wasn't compiled for the current kernel!), flash video in full screen no longer works 21:57:47 So whatever fall back driver X uses when fglrx isn't loaded, works with flash 21:57:48 Sigh 21:58:05 -!- Chillectual has joined. 21:58:14 Hrm. I tested the line above on a random mp3, and it seems to have done the start seek properly but not the duration limit. 21:58:26 Really? 21:58:29 Well that is silly 21:58:50 Ah, command line argument order strikes again. 21:59:03 Oh? 21:59:06 You need avconv -ss 123 -i input.mp3 -t 42 -codec copy out.mp3 instead. 21:59:08 I hate utilities like that 21:59:17 What 21:59:19 Because the duration limit is an "output" kind of an argument. 21:59:22 That makes little sense 21:59:28 Sigh 21:59:34 And whatever you specify before an -i option is specific for that input, or some-such. 21:59:44 Ugh 22:00:05 Even better: the -ss can go both before or after the -i and will do a subtly different thing. :p 22:00:20 fizzie, hm would this work on an mp4 from youtube as well, I need that too, not sure what audio codec thoses uses (nor any idea how to find out) 22:00:43 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:01:20 I think the formats that go in an MP4 container are all AAC on the audio. 22:01:33 Ugh 22:03:11 Yes it is AAC 22:03:16 According to vlc 22:04:07 -!- Chillectual has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 22:04:48 $ ~/local/ffmpeg/bin/ffmpeg 22:04:49 WARNING: gnome-keyring:: couldn't connect to: /home/arvid/.cache/keyring-z7nSMy/pkcs11: No such file or directory 22:04:51 why the fuck 22:04:59 Is it trying to do gnome keyring!? 22:06:58 `run echo $'LET "1:20:23.41 Start of this section\\n1:21:34.56 etc" ~ "{d!+}:{d!+}:{d!+.!d!+}.+{d!+}:{d!+}:{d!+.!d!+}"\n\\0+(60*(\\1+60*\\2))-\\3-(60*(\\4+60*\\5))_"' | ploki 22:07:00 71.1500000000005 22:07:27 What is ploki? 22:07:43 I don't know how good time-domain accuracy you'll get out of it with -codec copy, since (AIUI) MP3 hasn't really been designed for extracting individual frames; there's some inter-frame dependencies. (If I ever knew the details, I've forgotten them.) 22:08:02 ploki is love, ploki is life 22:08:09 fizzie, what about aac? 22:08:20 mauke, Something more useful? 22:08:28 (I got a file 10.3 seconds long with -t 10.) 22:08:36 Vorpal: it's a programming language 22:08:39 -!- nucular has joined. 22:08:40 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 22:08:40 -!- nucular has joined. 22:08:43 mauke, paradigm? 22:08:56 It looks of the unreadable sort from that 22:09:00 what are my options? 22:09:18 mauke, the usual? 22:09:29 ? 22:09:41 functional/imperative, oop/not-oop and so on 22:09:43 Vorpal: ffmpeg and avconv are unlikely to have major functionality differences afaik 22:09:53 imperative 22:09:54 or rather they probably both have some things the other doesn't have at any given time? 22:10:01 elliott, ah okay, then what was the bloody point of the fork? 22:10:15 open source development politics 22:10:22 Oh right. 22:10:26 I think ffmpeg pulls in like half the libav commits unchanged nowadays or something 22:10:39 I think libav has the more momentum if only because Debian etc. use it 22:10:40 And avconv the same? 22:10:47 Hm 22:10:48 I don't think it's so much the other way around, but I don't know that much 22:10:51 I just read a blog post about it 22:11:01 All this over indentation and braces? ;) 22:11:27 Anyway I don't really care what the conflict is about 22:12:41 Vorpal: Got 10.9 seconds with "-t 10" for extracting some AAC audio from a youtube-dl .mp4 file. 22:13:15 So okay, I can just forget non-lossy then 22:14:33 If you want exact time resolution. At the very least, it's going to have to be rounded at the frame boundaries of the audio codec. 22:14:47 (Kind of like you need to speak in 8x8 blocks for lossless JPEG operations.) 22:16:04 Ah yes 22:17:24 `unidecode ē 22:17:26 ​[U+0113 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH MACRON] 22:18:00 `unidecode ω̈ 22:18:02 ​[U+03C9 GREEK SMALL LETTER OMEGA] [U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS] 22:18:39 LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH MACARONI AND CHEESE 22:19:18 never has a character been so delicious. 22:20:03 (Going to sleep, I think; been a long day.) 22:22:52 * oerjan imagines fizzie dreaming about chasing edible symbols 22:28:07 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:32:48 back 22:36:52 sup 22:39:56 I really dislike the iterators of python 22:40:01 They are too limited 22:40:48 well it is obj oriented, so you can make your own! :P 22:41:04 Vorpal: How do they work, and how is it limited? 22:41:20 There is no support for iterators that support going backwards and forwards. In C++ terms they would basically be input iterators I believe 22:41:38 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 22:41:58 For example, if I want to look at the next item in the iterator without removing it from the iterator (i.e. a peek function), can't do it 22:42:25 quintopia, yes, but it won't integrate into the "for x in foo" syntax. I would have to do my own while loop over it 22:43:01 __iter__ 22:43:03 In which case, why don't I just do a in_list = list(input_iter); for i in range(len(in_list)): or some such 22:43:27 nucular, pretty sure that i wouldn't be able to access a peek function even if I added one in that case? 22:45:16 It depends on how you implement your iterator 22:46:14 Hm I guess I could create some wrapped object that forwarded most of the calls to the underlying object and then do "for e in my_collection: ... e.next()" 22:46:20 Sounds annoying though 22:47:52 I heard you can even subclass generator and set __iter__ to an instance of that subclass 22:48:22 Oh that is a cool idea, but I think doing an range iterator is easier since this is a pretty short one-off script 22:49:08 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:09:01 What is a good python IDE? I just use IDLE mostly, but it is kind of bad at figuring out completion suggestions. Understandable giben the dynamic typing 23:10:00 I really like the wxPython Py suite but I only use Sublime Text 2 23:10:15 given* 23:10:20 Hm okay 23:11:25 Vorpal: You can look at Editra, it's slightly based on the Py suite and also written in Python + wx 23:12:18 -!- olsner has joined. 23:12:39 Hm 23:12:51 hm! 23:13:42 I used it for a long time before I found out about ST2 23:14:03 everyone keeps telling me to use ST2. 23:14:37 Maybe because you should :P 23:15:17 why. it's not free or open source last I checked. 23:15:59 True 23:16:05 I heard sublime is good though 23:16:08 Never tried it myself 23:16:17 A few people at work uses it 23:16:20 It only randomly shows a message box at every tenth saving action if unregistered 23:16:25 I mostly use emacs instead 23:16:49 nucular, ouch, I tend to save quite often 23:16:55 :D 23:17:29 actually more like at every 20th but meh 23:19:38 I almost never use an IDE, I just have the docs on another halve of the screen 23:20:01 nucular, I like intelisense style completion, doesn't work very well for python though 23:20:59 i don't use an IDE (which I take to include sufficiently fancy vim/emacs configs) but mostly out of laziness and inertia, not because I don't think they're valuable 23:24:25 what does IntelliSense different again? 23:24:37 the Agda emacs mode is awesome and if I had such a mode easily available for Haskell and Rust, I would love it 23:24:43 enough to switch back to emacs, maybe 23:25:23 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:29:12 -!- nutty has joined. 23:29:12 -!- nutty has quit (Changing host). 23:29:12 -!- nutty has joined. 23:29:14 -!- nucular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:30:07 -!- nucular has joined. 23:30:07 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 23:30:07 -!- nucular has joined. 23:31:44 -!- nuculear has joined. 23:32:30 wow, two web disconnects in such a small time 23:33:50 -!- nutty has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:34:37 -!- nucular has changed nick to Guest5107. 23:34:39 -!- Guest5107 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:39:09 -!- nuculear has changed nick to nucular. 23:39:10 Now I think that with the features in Black-C, it seems like it would be possible to use them to implement many features resembling those used in C++, such as templates, run-time type information, inheritance, Koenig lookup, etc. Do you think this is correct or did I miss something important that results in such implementations not working? 23:39:26 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 23:39:26 -!- nucular has joined. 23:41:40 am I the only one only coming up with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBL_Posse when searching Black-C? 23:41:52 it's zzo38's c proposal thing. 23:42:02 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/black_c.txt 23:43:01 As well as some C99 stuff such as complex numbers could also be implemented using these features. 23:43:53 O, and namespaces, too. 23:45:10 Actually I just came here to talk with ais523 about building a Snowflake interpreter 23:45:12 I have recently added the specification of "extern static" now; it is the only thing I added today, I think. Name mangling applies to things declared as "extern static", and in fact only to such things (other things are treated as normal C names). 23:49:03 zzo38, why would you want to make C++!? 23:49:26 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:49:28 Implementing ADL and templates seem like terrible ideas given how much of a pain they cause in the C++ world 23:49:49 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 23:50:02 nucular, he seems to be missing atm 23:50:43 yes 23:51:18 Vorpal: It isn't C++; I am simply saying that such things may be some of the things that can be implemented using the features I have described. If you don't like them, don't program them in! 23:51:20 fizzie, my python script works fantastically! 23:52:02 Good thing that I'm a D fan btw :P 23:52:25 nucular, you and Deewiant? 23:52:34 And I guess the D author anyway 23:52:46 To be blunt, what I'm saying is that D hasn't really seemed to take off much 23:53:09 zzo38: does your metaprogramming system give deep access to inspect & destructure types, the way C++ templates do (and pretty much nothing else does)? 23:54:08 fizzie, ... hm, I don't know what avconv did though, the "duration" column in vlc is all messed up for these files... 23:54:13 kmc: I am not very well knowing how C++ does it. 23:54:13 Until you play them 23:54:24 Maybe some sort of VBR and no included length info? 23:54:47 Vorpal: What is "ADL" anyways? 23:56:15 -!- nucular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:56:19 zzo38, Other name for Koenig lookup (I had to look up what "Koenig lookup" was, I only knew the name ADL - Argument Dependent Lookup) 23:56:35 -!- nucular has joined. 23:56:50 Vorpal: OK, I didn't know what the abbreviation stood for. 23:57:05 sorry, my connection decided to suck for today 23:57:44 kmc: Can you give some example of its working? 2013-12-29: 00:00:07 not at the moment 00:07:27 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 00:07:53 kmc, Hm? "inspect & destructure types"? 00:08:08 destructure is not even a real word! 00:08:27 says you 00:08:51 Says the spell checker 00:09:09 the definition of Foo can ask, say, whether T is a pointer, and if so, do things with the pointed-to type 00:09:13 http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/type_traits/ 00:11:14 i've poked at compile-time type introspectiony stuff, but it's hard to conceptualize. what is a pointer tye, really 00:11:22 kmc: In mine, you could probably do things with pointed-to-type, using the typeof operator, for example (typeof(*(X)0)) or something like that. (You can also define your own pointer types, which I don't know if C++ can do) 00:11:34 how do "your own pointer types" work? 00:11:52 in C++ you define your own pointer types by making a struct/class which overloads operator* and such 00:12:06 these so-called "smart pointers" are very important to writing C++ in a high level, memory-safe style 00:12:20 Well, it works something like that. 00:12:29 So, yes it is a bit similar to the C++ way. 00:13:10 But, the functions to deal with them are called "deref" and "assign" (including the quotation marks), rather than operator* 00:15:02 Do you understand this now? 00:16:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Hnäjte). 00:17:19 zzo38, what about the difference between operator* and operator-> ? 00:17:50 In C++ the former returns a reference and the latter a pointer I believe 00:18:02 In theory you could return different values for them 00:18:07 Can't see that being useful though 00:18:09 Vorpal: In mine there isn't a difference. 00:18:36 zzo38, well I doubt you could fully emulate C++ in it then 00:18:40 If the return type of "deref" is a struct/union type, then you can use the -> operator with it. 00:18:46 All the so called "useful" features perhaps 00:19:02 What about pointers to member functions? 00:19:14 Has a ->* syntax or something like that 00:19:20 Vorpal: I don't intend to "fully emulate" C++; I only am saying that some useful features of C++ are possible to imitate, but not exactly the C++ way. 00:19:40 How to "pointers to member functions" work? 00:19:50 it's a little sad that Rust doesn't have anything with those particular capabilities of C++ templates, even though C++ templates themselves are a mess 00:20:35 zzo38, It is like a function pointer (points to a function of the given prototype that is also a member of this class) but you provide the actual this-pointer object when calling the function pointer 00:20:36 imo pass first-class environments to macro-functions 00:20:37 kmc: Can you do some things, with macros, though? 00:20:45 zzo38, I used it *once* 00:21:03 I never used pointer to member variables, which also exists in a similar manner 00:21:21 Vorpal: Black-C doesn't have a "this" pointer 00:21:46 zzo38, so no member functions? 00:21:56 If your compiler supports trampolines then you may be able to implement such member function pointers 00:22:00 Ah... 00:22:01 zzo38: yes, there are macros, and there is parametric polymorphism with type classes, but there's nothing which inspects types in this way 00:22:16 Vorpal: Structures and unions can have functions as long as they are static (or extern static). 00:22:38 Also stay away from MI. 00:22:45 Also virtual inheritance is a mess 00:22:56 I never figured out how it works completely 00:23:19 Btw, python's scoping is terrible 00:23:31 As far as I can tell it is late binding dynamic scoping? 00:23:32 My specification has no virtual functions or multiple inheritance or those things either, but you can try to fake it. 00:23:37 (Maybe.) 00:23:43 Kind of 00:24:01 hm? terrible? 00:24:09 Hm no it isn't dynamic scoping 00:24:14 Nor is it true static scoping 00:24:48 nucular, well yes... def foo(): return x and then declare x *later* in the module scope (as long as you don 00:24:56 don't* call it before declaring x) works 00:25:11 I'm personally not a fan of any sort of late binding 00:25:28 hm, i like it 00:25:30 python is a nice scripting language apart from that though 00:25:42 would much prefer static typing and early binding 00:26:06 also, i think module systems get much weirder in my projects 00:26:15 nucular, oh? 00:26:23 Than what? Python? 00:27:21 what? 00:28:16 "get much weirder" "than what" 00:28:20 module systems are a pretty interesting area of PL that I never really learned much about 00:28:43 Haskell and Rust are both pretty conservative re: modules, although Rust's module system is definitely more complicated than Haskell's 00:28:46 kmc, PL? 00:28:53 programming languages (as a field of study) 00:28:55 AH 00:28:59 Ah* 00:29:06 For example I have a main script that imports a module that imports the main script 00:29:33 kmc, I think the simple system of erlang works well. It is simple apart from the "reload on the fly and keep two versions in memory at once" bit 00:29:52 nucular, that sounds like bad design 00:30:09 The module uses a class that was defined in the main script, and the main script uses the instances created in the module 00:30:24 "Due to the large number of spambot signups from China, we no longer allow .ch email addresses" 00:30:44 I have had python scripts that loops through an array and import modules from that though (for a build system generator thingy, each imported module was the config for that project, defining how to generate that sub-dir) 00:30:56 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:31:20 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 00:37:31 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:41:59 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 00:44:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:46:08 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:47:05 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:53:37 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 00:55:57 -!- nucular has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:56:54 -!- nucular has joined. 01:15:17 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:35:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:45:21 zzo38: halp 01:45:50 zzo38: why did this render like this and what do i need to do to fix it: http://esolang.rutteric.com/files/oneill1.4.pdf 01:47:14 quintopia: What part is the problem? 01:47:29 zzo38: hold on 01:48:17 zzo38: never mind. it's just PDF.js sucking. 02:02:17 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:14:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:22:40 Is memcpy(malloc(sizeof(x)),&(x),sizeof(x)) proper? 02:23:58 malloc might return NULL 02:24:05 also maybe it's possible for x to have size 0? 02:25:10 I suppose these things are possible, but I don't expect that memcpy should do anything if the size is zero. 02:27:04 malloc(0) is allowed to return NULL on success; I don't know if memcpy(NULL, x, 0) is allowed or not, but what you say is certainly plausible 02:28:41 Am I the only one here getting sudden massive CTCP spam? 02:28:49 * kmc isn't 02:28:53 who's it from? 02:29:06 CJJWCFFDDBAV 02:29:18 If malloc(0) *does* return NULL on success, then memcpy(NULL, x, 0) should be allowed, too; it would be the sensible way. 02:29:19 they aren't in this channel 02:29:26 sounds like a reliable person 02:29:27 seems like freenode is under a spambot attack 02:29:39 zzo38: I agree, however ISO 9899 and POSIX and such are not always sensible :/ 02:34:35 Users being inside #freenode live dangerously it seems 02:35:24 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:39:43 In my opinion the specification of malloc(0) ought to be: It doesn't matter what it returns (whether it is same every time or different every time, even), as long as free(malloc(0)) is allowed and does not damage the rest of the program, and furthermore that realloc(malloc(0),x) will be like malloc(x), and realloc(malloc(x),0) like malloc(0). 02:41:04 And furthermore, the results of malloc(0) can be used anywhere a pointer to a zero-length object is expected (such as with memcpy and memmove). 02:45:06 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:46:34 zzo38: yes, free(NULL) is allowed (whether or not malloc(0) returns NULL) 02:48:08 sometimes you see such as #define extra_super_safe_free(x) do { free(x); x = NULL; } while (0) 02:48:21 with the idea that double free() can be dangerous but extra_super_safe_free() is idempotent 02:48:33 Ah, OK. 02:49:03 I just do it myself when it is necessary, although I do suppose to use a macro would work too. 02:49:13 my gut feeling is that this is ``too clever'' and will backfire in some way I'm not anticipating 02:49:17 but *shrug* 02:50:24 You just have to ensure that x is a lvalue without side effects, I would think, as well that the macro is not itself called with a pointer to a object that is already destroyed or invalid 02:50:36 yeah 02:51:53 But it is useful even for reasons other than to be more safe; and actually those other reasons are the ones I would use them for, since rather I just wanted to record that it is not existing anymore. 02:52:05 should C have a "post-assign" operator such that (supposing it were spelled =.) you could do free(x =. NULL) ? 02:52:50 A "post-assign" operator is actually something I have wanted to have, for other reasons too 02:52:56 which reasons? 02:53:24 I do not remember, but I do know I have wanted it for other reasons. 02:54:53 Probably a macro can be made of it in GNU C using ({ ... }) 02:55:35 maybe, but how? 02:56:00 GNU C is basically C fan fiction 03:22:06 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 03:22:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:26:19 #define post_assign(x,y) ({ typeof(x) local1=x; x=y; local1; }) 03:26:51 hm, I suppose 03:28:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:53:10 It's better than canon though 03:53:55 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:53:58 yes 03:54:18 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:54:44 so what's the language extension equivalent of Erotic Versions of Star Trek Where All the Characters Are Furries, Like Kirk is an Ocelot or Something, and They Put A Furry Version of Themselves as the Star of the Story 03:55:30 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:59:42 what. 03:59:44 -fgnu-runtime 03:59:57 kmc: i'm absolutely confused by that message. 04:00:18 http://brunching.com/images/geekchartbig.gif 04:00:22 I would totally read that fanfic itt 04:00:32 -fheinous-gnu-extensions 04:01:33 probably one of those C-with-a-shitload-of-macros-and-custom-preprocessor things 04:01:39 like qt but for c, ic an't think of any xxamples 04:01:58 zzo38: from where does the name Black-C come? 04:05:57 -!- nucular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:26:19 kmc: From my own name. Black is my name. 04:26:29 oh!! right 04:27:19 That’s racist 04:28:25 A lot of arrows go both ways. 04:32:53 ion: dumb 04:33:49 ion: What are you saying is racist? 04:34:28 -!- mauke has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:37:21 -!- mauke has joined. 04:44:53 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:45:32 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:45:40 -!- mauke has joined. 04:46:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:47:05 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:47:31 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:47:57 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 05:01:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:06:39 There there public domain editions of the Bible which are English and have better quality than KJV (and that include deuterocanonical books, and perhaps also a few others)? 05:06:48 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 05:06:52 "There there"? 05:07:06 s/There there/Are there/ 05:08:15 hum, NIV's still in copyright 05:08:20 KJV isn't public domain? oh right, in the UK it's under perpetual Crown copyright 05:08:31 zzo38: seems unlikely. if someone puts in the effort to retranslate, surely they'll want a little bit of recompense for the effort. but then, i don't know if people copyright bible translations ever. 05:08:53 they do 05:08:54 i guess britain did once 05:09:18 wikisource has some http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible 05:09:35 Bike: i would if i had done it, but it seems counter to the goal of spreading it as widely as possible 05:10:14 you still might want to control derivative works, etc 05:10:18 kmc: Yes, it has that problem, but it is also the quality I am looking for (and furthermore, academic more than religious) 05:10:53 academic edition in the pd sounds like a nice dream, unfortunately 05:11:15 zzo38: yeah you're gonna pay for something as high-quality as an oxford bible 05:12:53 maybe shachaf can translate some bible for you 05:13:20 what the hell is gopher wood 05:13:23 quintopia: If I want an actual book (including with an index and everything like that) then I would pay, that would be fine; however I wanted a public domain copy which can be made the plain ASCII file in a computer. 05:14:19 my experience with public domain plaintext is ungood (shudders at memories of victorian-era mahabharata) 05:14:28 of translations* 05:15:16 Bike: a good name for a band, is what 05:15:20 but not as good as Kingpiss 05:15:39 "The World English Bible (also known as the WEB) is a free updated revision of the American Standard Version (1901). It is one of the only public domain, modern-English translations of the entire Bible. It is freely distributed using electronic formats. The Bible was created on the base of the ASV by volunteers on the ebible.org project and edited by Rainbow Missions, Inc., a Colorado nonprofit corporation." 05:15:47 i guess this is probably the best you're going to get 05:16:02 Ah, there it is. 05:16:56 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01222007 05:18:04 If it isn't in plain text format, it can (hopefully) be converted, and if it contains some errors (in the translation, or just typographical), then can be improved (and if such improvements are made, it should clearly be marked as such; no confusion with original format please!) 05:18:17 Which books is it including/excluding? 05:19:28 looks like it's got the usual stuff and the deuterocanon 05:19:47 if you want mary or enoch i dunno what to tell you 05:19:59 That is good then, since some don't have deuterocanon. 05:20:00 deuterocannon 05:40:13 hi kmc 05:40:23 am in sf 05:40:42 good city 05:46:39 cool 05:46:47 translate any bibles lately? 05:47:01 what's in sf anyway 05:47:58 no. 05:48:07 um. wrong window. 05:48:19 i assert that in sf is no 05:49:58 are you prolog 05:50:35 no. 05:50:47 -!- tromp__ has joined. 05:53:20 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:13:15 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 06:27:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:28:56 -!- Bike has joined. 07:03:22 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:15:31 Pokemon Yellow... is turing complete 07:15:32 http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/articles/accidentally_turing_complete.html 07:15:32 way 07:15:34 *wat 07:19:33 it's only turing complete since like, it has an arbitrary code execution vulnerability, right? 07:21:48 That's silly, the cartridge doesn't have an infinite amount of RAM in it. 07:22:47 Fiora: yes 07:22:56 "Stuff which is somehow limited (stack overflows, arbitrary configuration, etc) is still considered Turing complete, since all "physical" Turing machines are resource limited." 07:33:30 you should all watch the video corresponding to that hack 07:33:37 a good tas 07:34:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UnB1fomvAw i think it's this one 07:35:50 you can kinda see reality disintegrate 07:43:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:51:08 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 08:08:27 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:10:47 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:14:13 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:14:41 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:49:27 mauke: Even if the universe were infinite? 08:56:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:57:47 -!- heroux has joined. 09:00:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:05:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:09:19 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:10:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:13:51 Q: what is the standard measure of old data? 09:13:51 A: The trilobyte. 09:18:12 what a silurious joke 09:34:37 @ask nucular Am I the only one here getting sudden massive CTCP spam? <-- have you set the +i flag on yourself? iiuc it makes you invisible to spammers not in the same channel. 09:34:37 Consider it noted. 09:35:56 oh he's in #freenode 10:04:43 that'll do it 11:05:35 -!- impomatic has joined. 11:25:06 i don't think "turing-complete" could even apply to pokemon yellow 11:25:34 gsc has a simple scripting system for in-game events and i assume you could figure its computational class 11:26:46 tertu: well 11:27:02 http://tasvideos.org/3767S.html 11:27:44 i guess the arrangement of the items is some sort of language 11:35:58 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:42:51 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:47:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:48:23 Calling rebooting the game while saving to corrupt memory a "valid action[] (like walking from one place to another or buying items)" is kind of stretching it. 11:53:21 I bumped into one of my old sort-of friends from high school 11:53:26 Apparently he now programs in Haskell 11:53:32 Everything in a TAS is allowed as long as it would be technically (but probably not) possible with just the original hardware, and it gets you to the ending screen 11:53:44 Taneb: Talk to him about Haskell! 11:53:49 FreeFull, I did! 11:54:00 He... has no experience with a lot of features of Haskell 11:54:08 have you accepted haskell curry as your lord and savior? 11:54:11 I've heard Earthbound's dialogue thing is a kinda complex scripting language 11:54:18 Be his Jedi teacher 11:55:20 FreeFull: It wasn't really about what's allowed or not in a TAS, more about the chess analogy in the description. (Anyway, this run doesn't go to the ending screen.) 11:55:35 > [False] >>= \b -> False : if b then [True] else [] 11:55:36 [False] 11:55:43 it does go to *an* ending screen 11:55:52 > [False] >>= \b -> False : if b then [] else [True] 11:55:53 [False,True] 11:56:24 > let f b = False : if b then [] else [True] in [False] >>= f >>= f >>= f 11:56:25 [False,True,False,False,True] 11:57:31 > let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in [0] >>= f >>= f >>= f 11:57:32 [0,1,0,0,1] 11:57:37 > let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in [0] >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f 11:57:38 [0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0] 11:57:42 :) 11:59:08 > let f = ([id,(1-)]??) in [0] >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f 11:59:10 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0] 12:01:37 What's this sequence called again? 12:01:50 the thor-moose sequence hth 12:01:53 I tried looking for it but found the dragon curve sequence instead 12:02:02 Ah, that's it 12:02:55 Thue-Morse sequence 12:03:00 That's better 12:03:10 The thor-moose sequence sounds very Norwegian. 12:03:16 (I was doing Lindenmayer's algae) 12:03:18 It does 12:03:24 fizzie: surprisingly so was thue. 12:04:02 Taneb: i thought i recognized the fibonacci substitution. 12:04:28 or something like it. 12:04:45 > let thue = 0 : map (1-) thue in thue 12:04:47 [0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1... 12:04:57 Ok, that didn't work out =P 12:05:05 you don't say 12:05:09 oerjan, yeah, it's quite close to the fibonacci one 12:05:29 > let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in [1] >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f 12:05:30 [0,1,0,0,1] 12:05:37 That's the Fibonacci one 12:05:50 hm right there should be no fixpoint. 12:06:06 > let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in [1] >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f 12:06:08 [0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0] 12:06:13 > let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in [1] >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f >>= f 12:06:14 [0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1] 12:06:22 How do you do an infinite list of thue-morse? 12:06:33 > let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in fix (>=> f) [1] 12:06:34 *Exception: stack overflow 12:06:48 > let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in fix (f >=> ) [1] 12:06:49 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num t0) arising from the literal `1' 12:06:49 The type variable `t0' is ambiguous 12:06:49 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 12:06:49 Note: there are several potential instances: 12:06:49 instance GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Double 12:06:59 @type let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in fix (f >=> ) 12:07:00 (Eq b, Num b) => b -> [c] 12:07:05 :( 12:07:12 @type let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in fix (>=> f) 12:07:12 (Eq b, Num b) => a -> [b] 12:07:18 @type let f 0 = [0,1]; f 1 = [0] in fix (>>= f) 12:07:19 (Eq a, Num a) => [a] 12:07:24 :( 12:07:34 > fix ((0:).drop 1.concatMap([id,(1-)]??)) 12:07:36 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1... 12:08:45 oerjan: Unnecessary space between the fix and ( 12:08:58 picky 12:09:07 > fix$(0:).drop 1.concatMap([id,(1-)]??) 12:09:08 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1... 12:09:17 > drop 1 "hllo" 12:09:19 "llo" 12:09:19 No 12:09:22 > tail "hllo" 12:09:23 "llo" 12:09:24 I mean, you can just drop the space altogether 12:09:36 > fix((0:).drop 1.concatMap([id,(1-)]??)) 12:09:38 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1... 12:09:45 that is longer than switching to $ 12:09:54 True 12:10:09 > fix$(0:).tail.(=<<)([id,(-1)]??) 12:10:10 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 12:10:10 arising from a use of `M47647106981436577086096.show_M47647106981436577086... 12:10:10 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 12:10:10 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 12:10:10 Note: there are several potential instances: 12:10:17 Yaaaay 12:10:30 @type (=<<( 12:10:31 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 12:10:32 @type (=<<) 12:10:33 Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b 12:10:42 @type concatMap 12:10:43 (a -> [b]) -> [a] -> [b] 12:10:45 :t (=<<)([id,(-1)]??) 12:10:46 Num (b -> b) => [b] -> [b] 12:10:51 That's not right 12:11:10 It uses the reader monad there 12:11:10 > fix$(0:).tail.(=<<)([id,(1-)]??) 12:11:12 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1... 12:11:17 Typo :) 12:11:48 Ah 12:11:53 Yeah, 1- 12:12:13 Didn't even notice that 12:12:24 > complement 1 12:12:25 -2 12:12:28 :( 12:12:34 > complement 0 12:12:35 -1 12:14:07 > fix$(0:).tail.(<**>[id,(1-)]) 12:14:08 [0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1... 12:22:55 It occurs to me I have no idea how to write a Thue-Morse sequence program in C 12:30:59 It depends on how much you want to output 12:31:09 If you want to keep outputting forever, you'll run out of memory 12:32:40 Well, I've written /something/ that seems to work 12:34:08 Only 5 KB compiled, too! 12:40:25 "Icon Programming for Humanists" 12:40:26 Wat. 12:42:24 Icon having null is presented as an innovation compared to SNOBOL 12:42:30 (in this article on rosettacode) 12:42:35 http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Icon%2BUnicon/Intro 12:42:47 I... guess I can see how, especially after having experienced Tcl 12:46:49 * oklopol can play about a minute of thue-morse on guitar 12:50:00 Unicon IDE... seems to be taking forever to compile Hello world 12:52:53 Oh, I think the IDE is suppressing errors or something, because I got this running unicon from command line" 12:52:55 "unicon: cannot open interpreter file" 12:55:07 Hmm, didn't I complain about the (Un?)icon trick that powers 3 < x < 5 etc. being... weak somehow? 12:57:23 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:57:25 (x | y) = (3 | 5) 12:57:47 > let x = 10; y = 5 in any $ (==) <$> [x, y] <*> [3,5] 12:57:48 Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> GHC.Types.Bool' 12:57:48 with actual type `[GHC.Types.Bool]' 12:58:02 :t any 12:58:03 (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool 12:58:21 > let x = 10; y = 5 in any id $ (==) <$> [x, y] <*> [3,5] 12:58:22 True 12:58:45 :t and 12:58:46 [Bool] -> Bool 12:58:50 (Possibly what you were looking for.) 12:59:27 :t or 12:59:27 Er, "or" is what I meant. 12:59:28 [Bool] -> Bool 12:59:31 even more possibly! 12:59:43 In fact, 12:59:46 @src any 12:59:47 any p = or . map p 13:01:34 Unicon basically lives in the List monad, right? 13:12:31 Wait, why does table lookup need a "default" that defaults to &null? 13:12:47 I thought Icon/Unicon's who schtick was avoiding that nonsense and just failing? 13:12:52 *whole 13:13:12 Which, it occurs to me, doesn't work too well when there are multiple layers that may 'fail' 13:20:46 `addquote * oklopol can play about a minute of thue-morse on guitar 13:20:53 1150) * oklopol can play about a minute of thue-morse on guitar 13:26:44 -!- yorick has joined. 13:27:54 -!- tromp__ has joined. 13:29:11 -!- olsner has joined. 13:30:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:33:57 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:34:27 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:35:08 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 13:35:08 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:44:33 @src or 13:44:33 or = foldr (||) False 13:44:45 should be or = any id 13:54:08 @src any 13:54:08 any p = or . map p 13:54:38 Could get a bit uselessly recursive 14:03:40 -!- olsner has joined. 14:04:11 In a non-lazy language, I can definitely see the any being primitive and or being derived as more efficient 14:04:22 (Or, well, if working with non-lazy lists) 14:07:36 -!- carado has joined. 14:13:29 -!- Sorella has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:13:41 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:14:24 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 14:14:24 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:15:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:40:46 "Warning:For each data type discussed in section, there is a corresponding module in the Mozart system. The modules define operations on the corresponding data type. You may find more about these operations in The Oz Base Environment documentation" 14:40:52 Why is this a warning? 15:04:47 hi Sorella 15:09:51 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:12:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:13:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:14:49 $$f_x(y)=\left(f_{x-1}^{y!}(y!)\right)^x+y$$ (where ^{y!} is a functional power) 15:17:38 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:18:05 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:23:10 This is a kind of shogi variant, where initially all pieces is known, but later on, it might not be known exactly what kind of pieces they are, but you can try to figure out what it is. http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSunknownoffpiec 15:28:10 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 15:28:17 -!- augur_ has joined. 15:28:28 -!- heroux_ has joined. 15:28:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:29:00 -!- coppro_ has joined. 15:33:24 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 15:33:24 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 15:33:24 -!- pikhq_ has quit (*.net *.split). 15:33:25 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 15:33:25 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 15:33:29 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 15:50:43 "In Oz there is syntactic support for module specification. The concept used is called functor ." 15:50:52 DRINK for a language using the term 'functor' for something 15:51:00 Although, is that the same meaning as in *MLs? 15:52:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:57:25 Functor? I hardly know her! 16:06:25 I really dislike the C++ use of the term functor 16:06:41 It is basically an object overloading operator(), thus making it callable. 16:07:13 Ok, Oz's ByNeed is interesting 16:07:31 Basically, takes an explicit thunk and turns it into a lazy value 16:08:24 Hmm, guess that's the same as any language that has some sort of native promise thing 16:22:26 bbl 17:01:35 -!- tertu has joined. 17:06:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 17:06:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:06:42 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 17:13:25 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 17:13:25 -!- ineiros_ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:13:25 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 17:13:26 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 17:14:26 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:14:36 -!- ineiros has joined. 17:15:16 -!- kmc has joined. 17:19:46 -!- aloril has joined. 17:26:00 :/ :/ :/ 17:26:10 I'm running Java 1.4 :/ 17:28:53 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to [li]|AoS. 17:36:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:50:59 -!- [li]|AoS has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:52:53 Sgeo: I'm sorry :| 17:53:03 This program depends on <7 17:53:12 And has an installer that includes 4 17:53:21 Trying to figure out WHY 7 breaks it 17:56:40 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:57:09 -!- Tefaj has joined. 17:59:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 18:00:02 -!- boily has joined. 18:02:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:10:26 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:10:50 -!- int-e has joined. 18:32:43 -!- Tefaj has quit (Changing host). 18:32:44 -!- Tefaj has joined. 18:32:48 -!- Tefaj has changed nick to Jafet. 18:33:11 -!- Jafet has left. 18:46:07 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:55:29 Ok. FUCK JUSTIN.TV IN THE ASS 18:56:37 don't want to 18:56:41 but why 18:57:12 Information that that site portrays as confidential (a key to broadcast to a user's stream) is easily accessible by a link that you can make just by knowing a username 19:01:26 nice, did you report this vuln? 19:01:39 No, haven't tested it yet 19:01:48 Want a volunteer 19:02:28 (That's not unethical, right?) 19:04:12 Hmm. False alarm. 19:05:38 So yeah, URL contains username, but that doesn't mean you'll actually see that user's file 19:05:38 It will show your own instead 19:22:09 good alarmist fternoon! 19:23:02 :3 19:36:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:41:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:47:06 -!- _46bit_ has changed nick to _46bit. 19:47:11 -!- _46bit has quit (Changing host). 19:47:11 -!- _46bit has joined. 19:49:39 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 19:52:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:54:04 -!- Edward___ has joined. 19:54:55 -!- olsner has joined. 19:55:13 -!- Edward___ has changed nick to Edwardz. 20:00:09 -!- carado has joined. 20:02:01 new favorite language: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Suicide 20:03:35 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:03:58 -!- Edwardz has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:26:12 hi boily 20:29:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:30:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:40:04 Is there a neat algorithm to turn an image of a 3d wireframe back into a 3d vector map? 20:41:04 you mean, you're taking a 2d projection of a wireframe? 20:41:10 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:42:09 impomatic: i think you would need at least two images of the wireframe from different angles 20:42:27 taking a 2d projection of a wireframe and working out the position of the 3d vectors. 20:42:28 and even then you have no guarantee due to inherent ambiguities 20:42:42 yes, that's definitely ambiguous 20:42:55 for example, the 3d figure could be flat :') 20:43:27 Bike: that would be noticed in the 2 images case 20:43:45 Bike: also you remind me of that new zealand art farm with the giant wire frame kleenex 20:58:56 hi quintopia 21:03:49 how sunday 21:05:21 many zombies 21:06:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:07:26 what 21:07:35 tell me about the zombies 21:08:12 I was watching Shawn of the Dead with my dad :D 21:08:55 oh good choice 21:10:28 still dominicquing under the Hot Ball of Hydrogen? 21:10:47 no that ended christmas day 21:10:59 today i walked the dog 21:11:06 around stone mountain 21:11:22 if you want to come to atlanta, i'll walk you around stone mountain too :) 21:11:56 * boily looks at wikipédia's pictures of Stone Mountain. “it looks like a big rock.” 21:12:43 conversely, if you come to Montréal, there's Mont Royal. 21:12:57 (not quite as impressive, but it has weird Montrealers on it :D) 21:13:00 ...what a fitting name for the city 21:13:35 well, at first it was called Ville Marie. that's still the name of the Old Town borough. 21:13:48 stone mountain is probably about the same. it is a weird park. the other day i climbed it and there was a dude playing and singing oldies songs halfway up walking up and down in the woods with his guitar 21:14:19 logically, if they call a mountain stone mountain, there should be some other nearby mountain _not_ made of stone. 21:15:33 oerjan: it's perfectly logical when you consider that kennesaw mountin is entirely covered in trees and dirt. that stuff won't grow on the bubble of pure granite that is stone mountain. 21:15:42 aha 21:15:51 in fact, there is no mountain nearby. it's rather a geological anomaly. 21:16:31 i assume from the spelling that kennesaw mountin has even more hillbillies 21:17:33 oerjan: better to assume i am a bad speller. kennesaw mountain is in the heart of one of atlanta's richer suburbs. not the richest, but solidly middle class. 21:17:55 fancy 21:19:18 it's also the site of kennesaw mountain national battlefield park, and one of the bloodier battles of the civil war. 21:19:33 Basically, takes an explicit thunk and turns it into a lazy value <-- well that's just unsafePerformIO really >:) 21:20:55 oerjan: shh! the Maskarade! don't go and tell People the Dirty Haskell Secrets! 21:21:05 -!- olsner has joined. 21:36:26 boily: ok i'll come to montreal and you'll come to atlanta. consecutively. we'll make a vacation of it! 21:36:31 let me know when 21:37:59 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:51:18 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:56:05 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:58:47 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 22:04:24 > (2560*1440) / (1280 * 768) 22:04:25 3.75 22:05:11 > (2560*1440) % (1280 * 768) 22:05:12 15 % 4 22:10:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:26:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:35:51 -!- conehead has joined. 22:35:53 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:37:15 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:38:36 -!- conehead has joined. 22:58:33 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:59:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:03:53 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:05:49 -!- int-e has joined. 23:06:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:11:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 23:22:26 -!- olsner has joined. 23:44:12 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:48:37 I just finished Brothers - A Tale of Two Sons. It is my new game of the year. 23:49:12 good timing 23:50:13 Bike, yeah 23:50:40 And I think it is definitely in the top 3 of all time as well 23:51:06 i hope these timings are not related 23:51:23 Bike, what other timing? 23:51:35 I just reattached to my bnc 23:51:52 you picked your game of the year near the end of the year, and your game of all time... 23:52:00 oh right 23:52:34 's ok time was overrated anyway 2013-12-30: 00:08:40 -!- ^v has joined. 00:13:25 Vorpal: what platform is it for 00:17:54 quintopia, PC, Xbox360 and also maybe PS3 I think? 00:17:58 I played it on PC 00:18:02 that is Windows btw 00:18:06 Not Linux alas 00:18:21 Vorpal: well that's too bad. let me know when it gets ported to android :D 00:18:35 quintopia, also you *really* need a game pad to play it, since you control one character with each analog stick 00:19:39 Vorpal: why can't i just use each half of a portrait-mode touchscreen? 00:20:03 quintopia, well it isn't on a touch screen device 00:20:20 Vorpal: you see my quandary 00:20:22 Anyway I found touch screen game pad controls pretty terrible compared to the real deal 00:20:53 Vorpal: they can be. but they can be good too. for instance, survivalcraft on android 00:20:57 I generally use my PS3 controller with my Nexus 10 tablet when playing that type of android game 00:21:05 Works pretty well, but requires root 00:21:33 There is a really good app for PS3 controllers 00:23:03 -!- nucular has joined. 00:26:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:33:04 And I just bought the sound track for it as well. 00:33:09 Good night 00:38:09 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:38:19 -!- augur has joined. 00:39:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:04 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 00:40:22 -!- augur has joined. 00:41:26 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:43:10 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:45:45 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:47:11 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:49:17 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:51:46 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:57:48 -!- augur has joined. 01:01:35 -!- conehead has joined. 01:16:16 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:21:03 -!- carado has joined. 01:39:57 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:40 "system default timezone" is a pretty weird concept in this age of clouds 01:51:55 the only clock typically visible on my laptop is from an irssi session running on a VM on a physical machine located in I think Virginia, but I have that VM set to America/Los_Angeles because that's where I live 01:51:57 utc-12, obviously, since nobody uses it 01:52:06 but I don't update it when traveling, even though I do update my laptop's local tz 01:53:34 kmc: all of the above applies to me as well, except i set my vps to east coast US 01:59:12 in this thread: Indiana has 11 IANA time zones 02:00:03 i like to think indiana has a graveyard of discarded clocks. 02:00:20 http://imgur.com/r/MapPorn/BPeLK is a kind of time zone map I was looking for the other day: deviation between legal time and mean solar time 02:00:23 lolchina 02:00:46 i'm glad nobody in the west actually uses utc+8 because that seems like it'd be a serious pain 02:01:53 solar noon in Kashgar is around 3 PM 02:02:04 Bike: what do they use? 02:02:20 also Russia uses Moscow time everywhere for some things, like train timetables but not airplanes? 02:02:42 i think they just use utc+5 02:02:45 unofficially, of course 02:03:27 I guess there is no DST so that's good enough 02:04:40 Reddit's habit of labeling any image subreddit as "porn" is somewhat distasteful. 02:04:41 let's abolish time zones and use an arbitrary chosen Biel mean time with a fancy commercial-at mark! 02:08:24 I just took screenshots of a place that doesn't exist anymore 02:08:53 http://imgur.com/a/ddbUy 02:09:03 Sardinia? 02:09:19 I don't think this is Sardinia. 02:09:27 wow this map of spectator sport popularity is edifying 02:09:51 like, who would have guessed that basketball be most popular in estonia and lithuania, while latvia prefers hockey? 02:09:58 sgeo autonomous oblast 02:10:33 I hear 3 on 3 half-court basketball is suuuuuper popular in East Asia 02:10:57 oh man i remember worlds.com 02:10:59 it sucked 02:11:01 sgeo took a screenshot of the pale of settlement. tragic stuff. 02:11:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:11:31 kmc: the most popular spectator sport in mongolia: wrestling. mongolians are true men! :D 02:11:37 heh 02:12:29 I like how that's essentially a map of how stupid a time zone is. 02:17:41 apparently thailand is the only country where the most popular sport is volleyball 02:17:51 what does that say about the thai 02:18:11 i think it says they have warm weather and nice beaches EVERYWHERE 02:21:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:22:19 -!- carado has joined. 02:27:28 brb going to thailand 02:28:02 where's the sports-map? 02:29:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:29:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:30:02 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 02:30:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:30:42 -!- huihuih8 has joined. 02:34:01 -!- huihuih8 has left ("(Byrd IRC Client // haxed.net)"). 02:34:45 Sardinia? 02:34:50 what happened to sardinia 02:35:02 the kingdom. 02:44:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:48:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:53:09 I should totally build a BytePusher VM 02:55:12 * Sgeo misread that as buy 03:57:19 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:16:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:28:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:29:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:29:53 -!- Bike has joined. 04:37:25 MMIX instruction set has a "SWYM" instruction, which from what I can tell may be like a NOP instruction. 04:39:23 * kmc looks 04:39:32 "sympathize with your machinery" nice 04:44:33 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:44:43 -!- mauke has joined. 04:46:32 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:46:57 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:47:12 -!- ^v has joined. 04:47:16 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 04:49:26 http://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/1tzbut/i_have_made_the_three_laws_of_logic_for_humans/ 04:53:05 Is it necessary to have both LDO and LDOU instructions? It is supposed to be LDO for signed and LDOU for unsigned, but it loads into a 64-bit register there would be no bits to be signed extended anyways. There is no condition register either like in other instruction sets. 04:53:57 might just be for consistency with loads of other sizes 04:56:50 Yes, although maybe it should just reserve it in case you need to customize the instruction set 04:57:29 (I don't know what GCC uses, but presumaly the assembler could be modified to work with customized instruction sets) 04:58:20 does gcc just call out to gas 04:58:28 It does. 04:58:29 yes 04:58:45 I want to watch/read a let's play. any recommendations? 04:58:46 ok, good. my experience with inbuilt assemblers is doubleplusungood 04:58:56 coppro: scotsman in egypt 04:59:04 and that one brain age tas 04:59:09 although it calls gas with some flags that mean "don't bother checking this too hard because this code is totally legit" 04:59:24 Also, the inline assembly syntax is quite ignorant of the actual assembly code. 04:59:41 brain age tas is pretty awesome, but it's a) kind of old and b) not a tas 04:59:46 alternatively, I could play metroid ii 04:59:48 let's do that 05:00:03 The constraints are all that GCC actually knows about; the assembly itself is taken as just an opaque stringe. 05:00:07 *string 05:00:25 coppro: Watch the let's play game of Super ASCII MZX Town. 05:00:33 it's always kind of funny/sad to see the \ns 05:00:42 (Maybe you need a knife) 05:01:27 i like it when the "inline assembler" is entirely assembler directives with no instructions 05:01:52 -!- nucular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:02:35 -!- nucular has joined. 05:02:35 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 05:02:35 -!- nucular has joined. 05:02:36 that... happens? 05:03:07 yes 05:03:33 eg http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/01/embedding-gdb-breakpoints-in-c-source.html 05:03:46 i should have known it was you, you anarchist 05:03:56 Ⓐ 05:04:20 ('A') 05:04:28 is that a cat 05:04:56 sorta. 05:05:54 zzo38: do you like the ideas of Chess 2: The Sequel 05:06:15 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 05:06:17 Bike: you can also use inline asm at the top level of a file: https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/8178050 05:07:01 D: 05:09:06 oh i don't need that "extern" 05:09:41 https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/arch/x86/boot/code16gcc.h Or, more usefully. 05:10:08 nice 05:10:46 http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=%5Easm%5C( 05:13:29 It's a little more impressive if you know exactly what that's *for* in this case. 05:13:56 That tells gas that the code will be executed in real mode, so it should spew out the 32-bit operand prefixes for everything. 05:16:52 and the assembly gcc outputs is correct in real mode without gcc doing anything special? 05:18:43 Barely. 05:20:30 quintopia: Not really all that much. It is OK, but there are a lot of better chess variants too 05:20:52 zzo38: which ones do you think are better and why? 05:21:00 Basically, all the 32-bit opcodes are still there in 16-bit modes on x86, they're just spelled differently. 05:21:36 anyone got any book recommendations? like, fiction. novels and short story collections. 05:22:05 Bike: parahumans.wordpress.com, Anathem, Good Omens 05:22:32 Though you're running in a 16-bit flat address space when doing this, unless you hit unreal mode. 05:22:44 quintopia: The dueling rule is an interesting idea, though. 05:22:56 zzo38: it seemed like your kind of rule 05:23:08 Needless to say, it's a fragile hack. 05:23:31 are there any esolangs where a program is a sound file? i see it mentioned on http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas 05:23:56 there's at least one that uses midi. 05:23:57 The game is not bad, though. 05:24:04 fugue, i think 05:24:14 i found http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fugue through that, which is a really cool idea 05:24:26 and I like the suggestion 'Combine the ideas behind Choon and Fugue into a single language where the programs are music and the output is music, then compose a piece called "Eine kleine Quinemusik".' 05:24:53 probably the best brainfuck derivative 05:25:40 Snowflake is my current favourite esolang 05:25:49 BytePusher is cool to 05:26:46 you could split a sound file into blocks of time and compute a spectrum for each one and map those to Brainfuck commands, for example, but I wonder if there's something more interesting you could do with the spectra 05:27:13 I don't know if the midline rule is good as is, though. Maybe it should be farther across the board? 05:27:32 perhaps the state of the virtual machine is itself such a spectrum and it combines with the spectrum at each time step in a nonlinear way 05:27:52 modulation, one might say 05:27:56 that makes it vaguely quantum-y 05:31:50 brb building a computer out of guitar pedals and tape loop delay boxes 05:32:26 well that's like puredata. just not sound itself. 05:33:04 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:33:04 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:33:41 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:37:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:51:08 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:58:13 -!- nucular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:58:23 -!- nucular has joined. 06:12:07 -!- Edwardz has joined. 06:12:37 If you have a general idea for a language, how do you check to make sure one similar doesn't exist? 06:21:53 explaining it in here might work 06:22:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:33:40 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Sleeping). 06:55:38 -!- Edwardz has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:12:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 07:19:47 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:30:14 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:27:45 -!- CADD_ has joined. 08:27:46 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 08:45:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:56:52 There's no need to check that :) 08:57:05 Otherwise there wouldn't be soooo freaking many brainfuck derivatives 08:57:44 anyone here familiar with http://www.idris-lang.org/ ? 09:02:14 Are you sure that's not haskell with a different name? 09:02:27 no 09:02:35 but given that it has dependent types 09:02:38 it is probably not haskell 09:03:14 that's just a hunch 09:03:33 I can't see any syntax differences except that :: is : 09:03:35 and : is :: 09:04:15 but yeah. It's not haskell 09:11:11 mroman: see agda 09:25:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:37:06 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:40:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:45:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:47:05 Today's Gunnerkrigg Court is cute 10:00:55 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Quit). 10:01:06 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:01:10 -!- Jafet has left. 10:08:03 Yeah.... I don't even know what dependent types are 10:09:02 mroman: when the type of something can depend on values 10:09:05 other than the lamens description of it 10:09:11 that it depends on an input value, yes 10:09:28 yeah 10:09:30 *laymen's 10:09:54 there are a few things that make them interesting from a language design perspective 10:09:57 which would suggest that the type is only known at runtime... 10:10:01 no 10:10:23 well, the final type is not known until runtime 10:10:40 unless you do various analyses at compile time 10:10:40 Given that the type is String if its input is True otherwise its a Float 10:10:50 but in practice, you have to make these analyses 10:10:59 then typeof(foo (isSomeCrazyTheoryTrue)) is going to be difficult to tell at compile time 10:11:07 because dependent types are undecideable in general 10:11:40 yes 10:11:47 that's what makes them interesting from a language design standpoint 10:13:01 so 10:13:09 languages with dynamic types 10:13:21 there is no *real* difference to dependent types? 10:13:37 well 10:13:47 unless you don't account for that they may depend on hidden state 10:14:12 but esentially dynamic types all depend on some value 10:18:01 technically most dynamically typed languages have dependent types 10:18:16 but that's so very different from statically-checked dependent types 10:18:33 when you hear "dependently-typed language" it almost exclusively means staticallly checked 10:21:06 which suggests that they are not turing complete 10:21:57 which doesn't really matter for what they are being used for apparentely 10:22:40 they are undecideable 10:23:44 because there is at least one program that can't be typechecked 10:23:58 if you like to gloss over a bunch of important definitions and details, they're turing complete 10:31:32 Now I'm just angry because my school has absolutely nothing on that topic to teach 10:32:14 "Introduction to proof assistants" would be an very interesting course 10:32:59 it's a fairly specialized field 10:36:30 in the it department in turku, you don't learn what a turing machine is and probably you don't learn what first-class functions are either 10:36:32 mroman: turing completeness doesn't require every program in your language to be typechecked. it just requires it to be enough programs that can be, to emulate any turing machine. 10:37:31 (mainly because the math department teaches that stuff probably, but still it's really sad) 10:37:53 and luckily you can already do that without the dependent types 10:38:30 see: C++ 10:41:56 you don't learn what first-class functions are here neither 10:42:09 you don't even learn about functional programming languages 10:42:24 however 10:42:53 what they do is make a 1500 slides long presentation about the .NET framework and then test that ;) 10:44:23 there's a course called declarative programming where you learn some scheme-like language (like 100 ways to print fibonacci type of stuff) 10:44:54 but almost no one takes that because you just read the book and take the exam 10:45:46 and a couple of other decent courses, but most are 1500 slides about java 10:46:39 there was one course about "ui techniques" where the lecturer basically went over the swing or whatever that one java library is called 10:46:44 erm 10:46:52 meant to say went over the swing documentation 10:46:59 yeah 10:47:01 like all of it (or at least enough to fill the course) 10:47:02 I hate those courses 10:47:30 I don't pay them money to treat me like I'm stupid and can't read a library documentation 10:47:55 he kept saying things like "of course the details of how java does this don't matter so much, only the general idea" 10:47:57 and I don't pay them money to force me to memorize a library documentation 10:48:05 mroman, my uni has a correctness by construction module but that's about as close as it gets 10:48:10 but they do it anyway. 10:48:10 THEN WHY DID YOU GO OVER _ALL_ THE DETAILS? 10:48:19 And that's in the third year 10:48:41 (to proof assistants) 10:48:59 (functional programming is... slightly more common, one of my lecturers was an author of the Haskell report) 10:49:08 i thought you meant that's as close as it gets to reading java documentation. 10:49:18 "otherwise we do decent stuff" 10:50:07 oklopol, I am not very good at logreading, I got chronologically displaced 10:50:13 `unidecode Ⓐ 10:50:18 ​[U+24B6 CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A] 10:50:27 `unidecode ö 10:50:29 ​[U+00F6 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS] 10:50:52 diaeresis sounds painful 10:51:15 `unidecode 뷁 10:51:17 ​[U+BDC1 HANGUL SYLLABLE BWELG] 10:51:45 `unidecode 長 10:51:46 ​[U+9577 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9577] 10:51:56 which is superficially similar to 튽 10:52:38 `unidecode 튽 10:52:39 ​[U+D2BD HANGUL SYLLABLE TEUNJ] 10:53:21 is it pronounced teunj 10:53:36 튽arine 10:56:24 -!- yorick has joined. 10:58:15 Apparently, C# was designed to be safe, fast, and easy 10:58:33 lifthrasiir: only to the untrained eye 10:59:08 or with a poor or small font 11:00:45 oklopol: it's pronounced teun ("eu" being a vowel similar to "u" here), "j" is there for explaining various side effects with the following syllable 11:05:20 i knew this korean guy once 11:05:38 but i don't know any korean 11:08:30 뷁 seems uncharacteristic 11:08:53 in the sense that there are no circles or rectangels 11:08:56 rectangles 11:09:11 well a very small rectangle i guess but it's hidden 11:09:38 :) 11:09:53 "There are seven verb paradigms or speech levels in Korean, and each level has its own unique set of verb endings which are used to indicate the level of formality of a situation." 11:10:05 seems a bit excessive 11:10:16 seven paradigms and thousands of possible postpositions/suffixes. 11:10:32 freakin hard for even Koreans. 11:14:30 i knew the korean guy because i was learning japanese and he was learning finnish, one time i asked him something like "korean has some type of honorifics too" (like japanese) 11:15:08 and he was like lol you call these honorifics 11:15:27 (referring to the japanese ones) 11:15:41 sorry i'm telling this story badly because i'm supposed to be downloading something for my gf. 11:19:42 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting into new kernel). 11:20:21 lifthrasiir: do you use all of them 11:23:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:24:18 oh 11:24:20 oklopol: do you really think that I can count all of them? :x 11:24:28 you learnt japanese? 11:24:41 I have some knowledge of Japanese but not much. 11:24:48 Me too 11:24:52 watashi mo :) 11:25:15 lifthrasiir: just mean the 7 paradigms 11:25:41 sono ringo wo tabetai noni tabemasen <- that's about what I know :) 11:25:42 do you like have, for each paradigm, a couple of people you use it with 11:25:58 oklopol: ah, I think not, there are some paradigms that have been obsoleted so far. 11:26:09 i don't eat that apple because i want to eat it? 11:26:11 and I don't agree on the whole concept of seven paradigms at all 11:26:36 okay 11:26:38 oklopol: maybe "I want to eat that apple but can't" 11:26:57 afk 11:27:12 i can't quite recall what noni means 11:27:51 even though maybe 11:28:12 not quite the same as because i guess 11:29:58 watashi wa sukoshi nihongo o benkyousurukoto ga arimasu 11:30:17 * oklopol generates a random list of words 11:35:10 * oerjan wonders where sukoshi is these days 11:36:09 `seen sukoshi ever 11:36:40 No output. 11:37:01 `seen sukoshi ever 11:37:32 No output. 11:37:43 `pastelogs sukoshi 11:37:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26340 11:38:49 `seen ... ever doesn't work too well when it's _really_ been a long time :( 11:40:31 hm here website is still running and looks updated. 11:40:34 *her 11:40:52 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:42:58 back (temporarily) 11:44:01 oklopol: the reason that I don't buy seven paradigms is simple, it does not fit to the current usage at all 11:45:16 the "paradigms" are in fact a combination of T-V distinction (formality) and honorifics in my opinion 11:46:48 there are no clean distinction and hierarchy among numerous honorifics (i.e. only partial ordering exists) 11:47:42 and so-called paradigms are merely a set of related honorifics that are used altogether (but sometimes not) 11:50:06 the current usage is much more like a simple distinction between informal and formal context, with contextual honorifics 11:51:19 ok 11:52:07 T-V meaning tensor-vector, I assume 11:52:16 Much like the old weak interaction theory 11:52:44 yes 11:53:01 since you're french i assume you're joking. 11:53:16 wait 11:53:18 Hon hon hon 11:53:21 you're obviously joking. 11:53:35 but since you're french i assume you also know the real meaning. 11:54:04 Oh wait 11:54:09 Is that "tu-vous" 11:54:29 so i assumed. 11:54:40 (We don't actually use that word) 11:57:27 we still have a bit of a tv in finnish, but we're trying our best to get rid of it 11:58:35 I assume you mean transvestite 11:59:39 yes 12:00:57 -!- Froox has joined. 12:02:03 -!- ter2 has joined. 12:06:36 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:06:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:14:25 -!- olsner has joined. 12:34:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:36:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:47:31 or television 12:56:49 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:08:16 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 13:08:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:10:10 or Turnverein 13:10:21 tuvalu 13:15:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:16:46 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:17:26 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 13:17:26 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:44:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:52:06 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:58:24 -!- olsner has joined. 14:02:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:03:30 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:04:20 -!- boily has joined. 14:04:31 bon matily 14:05:09 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:05:17 quintohayō. 14:07:11 bon metasepiatin 14:07:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:30:30 ~metar KATL 14:30:31 KATL 301352Z 31007KT 9SM FEW044 SCT200 BKN250 06/04 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP208 VIRGA SW T00560044 14:30:35 ~metar CYQB 14:30:36 CYQB 301400Z 25021G27KT 20SM BLSN FEW025 FEW045 M14/M18 A2980 RMK SC1SC2 SC TR PRESRR SLP097 14:46:48 I just tried to estimate how many pages I'd need to use to write all my knowledge down :) 14:47:24 and then again 14:47:31 how many pages would the total human knowledge fill 14:47:38 including deduplication of course 14:47:43 which is gonna be hard to estimate 14:48:33 ~metar EFHK 14:48:33 EFHK 301420Z 25012KT 9999 FEW011 BKN013 03/01 Q1010 NOSIG 14:48:40 It's like the strangest weather, it's a flat +3 .. +5 °C every day, night and day. 14:48:45 ~metar Zurich 14:48:46 --- Station not found! 14:57:33 ~metar LSZH 14:57:34 LSZH 301450Z 35003KT 300V020 9000 SCT013 SCT018 03/M00 Q1025 NOSIG 15:14:23 ~metar ESSA 15:14:24 ESSA 301450Z 23007KT CAVOK 01/M01 Q1015 R01L/29//95 R08/29//95 R01R/750166 NOSIG 15:26:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:36:01 I wonder how squirrels can survive outside in Canadian winters... 15:36:22 maybe they hibernate? 15:39:14 if they hibernated that'd make more sense than running arround on electric lines all winter long. 15:39:43 (apart from the bizareness of the situation, it's a nice sight to gaze upon when trying to debug badly engineered code.) 15:39:59 electric lines? maybe they discovered electric heating 15:40:29 power lines, not electric. (my French is slipping again... «fils électriques».) 15:40:42 and are you already back at work? 15:40:44 why? 15:41:05 I worked last week, and I'm working this week, but I'm still at my parents'. 15:52:34 Maybe they steal energy from the power lines by induction? 16:00:08 that would explain their running. a magnetic squirrel moving relatively to an EM field would produce current. and because squirrel have a non-null resistance (I hope squirrels aren't superconductors), they heat. 16:00:53 research continues on squirrel-temperature super conductors 16:08:35 what is the average surface area of a transverse squirrel cross-section? 16:09:12 one SQSq ) 16:09:36 well, that would've been something else if backspace was not so close to enter 16:09:46 (“A sciurinæ or a xerinæ?“ “I don't know. Ayeeeeeeeee!”) 16:16:04 -!- carado has joined. 16:29:54 -!- conehead has joined. 16:37:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:44:40 -!- Bike has joined. 16:56:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:10:44 -!- conehead has joined. 17:14:45 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:17:23 meanwhile, herobrine confirmed removed in 1.8. 17:20:29 fungot: you hate herobrine, right? 17:20:30 olsner: but _you_ said that any sufficiently complicated common lisp or scheme. shivers is hiding in his lair at ga tech and lay siege upon olin's office in order to 17:20:43 fungot: I said no such thing 17:20:44 olsner: well, i already have my right hand and had to check that 17:21:32 olsner: fungot checked. you said it. 17:21:33 boily: all whitespace between the sexpr delimiters remains untouched. would *you* believe a claim the it was a major program, mis management information systems. 17:22:37 hmm, mis management information systems, isn't that what you're working with? 17:23:17 I deny any implication I'm misinformating for money. 17:23:24 fungot: do you swear or affirm that olsner said it 17:23:24 shachaf: s k and fnord? to avoid cluttering the namespace with names like head tail. 17:25:52 fungot: s k 17:25:52 shachaf: i was confused again. ' huh what did that mean? i know some of those 17:26:20 fungot: you gotta know them all 17:26:20 shachaf: when will you find out how many bytes a jmp call would take. no other reason than the fact that people can watch the original lectures 17:26:51 fungot: from whom? 17:26:51 boily: so the until-test will change their minds 17:27:31 fungot: until (their minds are changed) { show them the original lectures }? 17:27:32 shachaf: only things in that directory. this way of conditional jump. no saving of the stack. why make every implementation keep waaaaay more functionality that is found in macosx? 17:27:36 as the Master said to the Pupil: “you will understand the Namespace Original Lectures when you Mind will have been Changed byt the Until-Test.” 17:28:05 boily: that is the Way of the Conditional Jump 17:28:46 fungot is wise 17:28:46 shachaf: srfi-18 to be specific 17:29:01 Multithreading support 17:30:32 Concurrent fungots. 17:30:32 fizzie: mostly using scheme in your kernel: http://savannah.nongnu.org/ projects/ fnord/ examples/ fnord that? 17:30:41 Yeah, that sounds like the way to go. 17:30:59 Concurrent fizzies. 17:31:17 Perhaps fungot *is* fizzie. 17:31:17 shachaf: not an issue here.)" fnord norvig is a traitor!! 17:32:10 Today I got a coin with my face on it. (There was a show about coins at the local "science center", and it included this machine where you could take a photo and have a machine use lasers to burn it on a coin.) 17:32:14 Sadly, I don't think it works as money anywhere. 17:32:31 i would take it 17:33:23 in fact i would take it at face value 17:34:18 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg it looks like that 17:34:34 fizziecoin 17:34:43 he latest in cryptocurrency 17:34:46 t 17:34:49 (I forgot to photograph the other side, but it just has the http://heureka.fi/ logo on it.) 17:35:25 OK, that looks like the face value is 2013 fizzies. 17:35:35 Not sure if I can afford that. 17:35:48 The cost of postage would be great. 17:37:16 fungot: can i have a coin with YOUR face on it 17:37:17 shachaf: all bf-complete with upper memory bound 40" at 17:37:28 Quite a coin. 17:37:29 fungot: can i have a hug with your face on it :'( 17:37:30 shachaf: am i the only one i've been toying around with beamer, but i really like are the use of an interface. what point are you trying to do 17:42:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:53:31 -!- carado has joined. 17:57:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:58:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:59:04 -!- Bike has joined. 18:26:53 -!- nemcevs has joined. 18:27:34 -!- nemcevs has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:27:58 https://twitter.com/search?q=smell%20colon 18:28:29 whyyyyyyyyy do people /join then immediately /part... I need my daily fix of `relcomming! 18:28:44 `relcome boily 18:28:47 ​boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:30:17 * boily grins, relaxes, slumps in his chair like a junkie. 18:30:44 Misread "grinds". Made that sound slightly suspicious. 18:30:45 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:31:00 fizzie: you gutterminded fiend. 18:31:11 Like, I don't know what got ground there. 18:31:32 geez fizzie, it was just a perfectly innocent #drugz reference 18:32:03 #drugz references are never innocent 18:33:20 re "grinds" https://twitter.com/unhush/status/416404349527396352 18:33:36 every time someone referes to #drugz, one of the FSM's noodles gets boiled past al dente. 18:34:38 (the pastafarian equivalent to one tanathokitten.) 18:35:07 rugged 18:39:17 ah "al dente" 18:41:28 omg 30C3 has a pneumatic mail system with 1.4 km of tubes 18:41:32 so wish I had gone 18:41:43 screw your christmas mom and dad, I'm going to party with a bunch of German hackers 18:42:04 -!- conehead has joined. 18:42:39 rip kmc, partied too hard 18:45:57 dibs on every maple-y possession of kmc! 18:46:38 hi kmc 18:51:35 shachaf: he's dead. you can have anything else if you want. 18:52:03 can i have his soul 18:53:11 please yourself. 18:58:59 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:59:51 -!- conehead has joined. 19:06:35 hichaf 19:06:50 torrent stalled at 99.9% WHYYYYY 19:07:02 sinners in the hands of an angry god 19:07:17 ur like a spider over the flame 19:09:59 a snail crawling along the edge of a straight razor 19:10:25 i... don't remember that part 19:10:36 ow >_< 19:11:38 ur like a babylonian. 19:14:46 simmer in the hands of an angry god for 30 minutes, then serve immediately 19:16:06 http://boscoh.com/protein/a-sign-a-flipped-structure-and-a-scientific-flameout-of-epic-proportions.html remember to test your code, friends 19:16:17 summer in the hands of an angry god for 3 months, then season accordingly. 19:18:22 punny 19:18:34 :D 19:19:02 shachaf: lift your skinny fists like antennas to heaven 19:21:13 a 2000 double album released by the Canadian post-rock group Godspeed You! Black Emperor. 19:21:26 indeed 19:21:49 Montrealer post-rock group, even 19:22:19 is a post-rock a rock that you attach a message to and throw through someone's window 19:22:20 double? 19:22:39 no, that's rock-post. a post-rock is a rock you use to hammer posts into the ground. 19:22:42 shachaf: a post-rock is the analog version of an authenticating HMAC. 19:22:58 Bike: double means they use key strengthening. 19:25:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:26:00 hezzo38. quick! grab everything you want from kmc! 19:26:45 i'm not dead yet 19:27:11 nonsense. 19:29:18 I don't think there is something I wanted to grab from kmc, as far as I know. 19:30:09 i call his devastating good looks and saving accounts 19:30:22 thanks bike 19:30:40 In some MUD other people can grab everything they want from me when I am dead, but that's only for me, not if other people are dead. 19:31:05 zzo38: organ donor 19:31:43 kmc: I don't need any of your organ at this time. 19:31:47 good song 19:32:02 `addquote kmc: I don't need any of your organ at this time. 19:32:06 1151) kmc: I don't need any of your organ at this time. 19:32:12 hm, would getting kmc's thalamus too be too greedy 19:32:25 i,i I don't need any of your oerjan at this time 19:32:50 “your oerjan”? 19:32:58 how many oerjan do you have zzo38 19:33:18 Bike: Nothing. 19:33:58 response invalid 19:35:04 :t Oerjan 19:35:04 Not in scope: data constructor `Oerjan' 19:35:58 I can't take it with you with the IRC anyways, but that is OK because it isn't necessary anyways. Therefore, it is OK that I don't think there is something I wanted to grab from kmc, as far as I know. 19:36:21 :t Just 19:36:22 a -> Maybe a 19:37:07 kmc: organ donor more like organ doner 19:38:35 döner 19:39:04 yes, that 19:39:27 yummy 19:40:28 @let just :: a -> Maybe a; just _ = Nothing 19:40:29 Defined. 19:49:16 :t Just just 19:49:17 Maybe (a -> Maybe a) 19:49:41 kmc: did you know ¬¬LEM is unprovable constructively 19:49:53 no 19:49:58 how do you prove that 19:50:25 not sure 19:50:27 I,I nstructive coproof 19:50:50 the distinction is between ¬¬(forall a. a + ¬a) and forall a. ¬¬(a + ¬a) 19:52:49 I would though, think that (Cont r (Either a (a -> Cont r b))); you have to apply the double-negative transform (or continuation passing transform) to *both* sides, isn't it? 19:56:08 I've been using turned-E as shorthand for "exists" since college, and in recent years I've been using turned-K for "known". The former is a standard logical convention, but I pulled the latter out of my ass. Is there a conventional symbol for "known"? 19:57:06 What logic will use a symbol for "known", anyways? 19:58:36 it comes up in epistemological analysis, which comes up often in distributed systems 19:58:57 the logic where you pull something out of your ass and assert it 19:59:12 f0rk: That comes up in business analysis. 19:59:31 w00t .. a geek in another channel pointed me at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_logic#Syntax 20:01:40 mauke: are you implying there are other chännels out there as geeky as us? 20:02:01 i have never eaten a chicken head 20:02:35 ... 20:02:38 ... wut? 20:02:48 I've never eaten a chicken head either 20:02:58 thanks for your support f0rk 20:03:34 You've never eaten a mcnugget? 20:03:49 god no 20:03:51 boily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_show 20:04:54 shachaf: interesting 20:05:05 Bike: indeed. 20:05:17 mmmmmmodal logic 20:06:04 boily: irc.perl.org/#perl 20:06:25 nah. not gonna join. #perl people make me feel... squeamish. 20:06:36 Bike: I think I never ate a chicken head. probably. 20:06:43 > (1 - x) ^ 3 20:06:44 (1 - x) * (1 - x) * (1 - x) 20:06:49 Thank you 20:06:55 *sigh* 20:07:03 I am NOT in the mood for binomial expansion 20:07:05 what did #perl people do 20:07:13 also, which #perl 20:07:14 `addquote I am NOT in the mood for binomial expansion 20:07:18 1152) I am NOT in the mood for binomial expansion 20:07:25 because the one on irc.perl.org is more like #perl-blah 20:07:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:07:35 1 - 3x + 3x^2 - x^3, right? 20:07:51 mauke: scratch the hash. perl people in general weird me. 20:08:09 I'm a perl people 20:08:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:08:42 * oerjan spots (1 - x)^3 expanded 20:08:48 Taneb: shouldbe 20:09:13 @check \x -> 1 - 3*x + 3*x^2 - x^3 == (1 - x)^3 20:09:14 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 20:09:23 the saddest algebra 20:09:39 :) 20:09:50 Of course, my use for this is virtually non-existent 20:10:05 I'm trying to derive a list 2-zipper 20:10:11 i guess recognizing a few levels of pascal's triangle is a good math skill 20:10:29 oerjan, I can, but not at this time of the day 20:11:28 Which is why I missed something obvious four lines of working earlier 20:11:37 mauke: have you read this year's tasty blogpost in 24 days of hackage? 20:11:52 boily: no 20:12:54 20:13:02 ω̈ 20:14:00 ȍ. 20:14:04 Hmm, it still feels like this carries too much information 20:14:12 mauke: http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/posts/2013-12-03-24-days-of-hackage-tasty.html, and also http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/guest-posts/2013-12-09-24-days-of-hackage-sbv.html 20:14:14 .̈ 20:14:35 mauke: also, https://github.com/pfcuttle/twentyfour-2013 (that one needs to be updated to cover the latest posts...) 20:14:53 mauke: glad to see you fully embrace this chännel's diæresisity :D 20:15:23 I also support `àwesome quoteś´ 20:15:59 `ẁoẃ´ 20:16:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ẁoẃ´: not found 20:16:35 mauke: I also mapped some keys on my ░▒▓█layout█▓░ to get fancy blocks, but I don't use them often. 20:16:38 Best I can do manually is ListZipper2 = LZ2 a (Maybe (a, [a])) [a] [a] 20:17:34 Taneb: whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa 20:17:38 what are you trying to do here 20:18:36 boily: meh, tasty looks overcomplicated 20:18:42 shachaf, be less curry infested 20:18:59 Also oh god that is wrong 20:19:06 mauke: but I understand it! (fsvo understanding.) 20:19:09 I should have trusted my maths 20:19:15 boily: I'd rather have Test::More 20:19:53 Taneb: maybe you should trust oerjan. 20:19:59 mauke: humbug. 20:20:05 bumhug 20:20:38 `? fizzie 20:20:40 fizzie is not fnord with a monad. 20:21:18 I learned that from fungot, unsurprisingly. 20:21:18 fizzie: it's mine, and hope we both post to the wiki 20:21:20 (previously, fizzie was also the creator of minecraft.) 20:21:29 `learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg 20:21:34 I knew that. 20:21:40 ...I am ssh'ing to a server where I have nano open which I am using to do differentiation 20:21:44 Is that a bitcoin 20:21:48 oerjan: Do you think it looks kingly? 20:21:57 oh fungot. now I'm stuck to insert pictures into the PDF. 20:21:58 boily: they implement dynamic-wind call/ cc? 20:22:07 oerjan: (Also I guess only king for the rest of 2013.) 20:22:10 fungot: no. it's a stack-based language. 20:22:10 boily: the scheme markup/ document preparation system out there, and it would be better 20:22:13 fizzie: you don't get more royal around here 20:22:26 Slereah: It's a fizziecoin, I hear they're the latest craze. 20:22:42 wow. much value. such PDF. very Finland! 20:22:45 oerjan: can i be king of #esoteric 2014 20:22:47 or president 20:22:51 or tiger in chief 20:22:52 I prefer dogecoins 20:22:53 anything 20:22:59 can I have voice? 20:23:05 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: Changing server). 20:23:06 can i have hug 20:23:10 nt sure you're qualified to be tiger in chief 20:23:49 Bike: uh p. sure i am 20:23:53 -!- coppro_ has joined. 20:24:22 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 20:24:23 please provide a CV listing your previous chieftanisms 20:24:42 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v boily. 20:24:44 also, to examples of zebrafish genetic modifications. 20:24:52 `thanks oerjan 20:24:53 Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan. 20:25:18 I AM THE (HOW DO I INSERT FIGURES AGAIN?) VOICE! 20:25:22 `fetch https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg 20:25:24 "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter." --Nathaniel Borenstein 20:25:27 2013-12-30 20:25:26 URL:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg [230556/230556] -> "20131230-coin.jpg" [1] 20:25:52 Bike: i am cuddly like a tiger and also soft and have fur and stripes 20:25:57 and there are no other tigers in here 20:25:59 `run mv 20131230-coin.jpg src/fizziecoin.jpg 20:26:03 No output. 20:26:12 `url src/fizziecoin.jpg 20:26:14 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 20:26:57 `learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 20:27:02 I knew that. 20:27:12 `? people who taneb is not 20:27:14 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 20:27:32 Hmm 20:27:38 fizzie is not on that list 20:27:43 Therefore I am fizzie 20:27:53 Therefore I am not winning... :( 20:29:22 oh fungot. now I'm stuck to insert pictures into the PDF. <-- whoops. well i'm sure it's possible somehow. 20:29:22 oerjan: newtype location location fnord:: double... line though. 20:29:47 good newtype 20:30:48 such fungot 20:30:49 olsner: it's a fnord gate, copy the stack into somewhere else in your family? 20:31:38 under the overpass, over the undertow, through the fnord gate, copy the stack and receive fungot 20:31:38 olsner: does someone from peoria have a shorter version with just cons* macros. 20:31:53 I have some more idea too, about some kind of computer game based on ideas in another dream I have had previously 20:32:38 i am currently having problems distinguishing zzo38 and fungot. 20:32:38 oerjan: gauche " hello, world!" get into there? iteration is where it's at. 20:32:58 oerjan: Then turn on the display of the sender of each message. 20:34:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:12 oerjan: the PDF, it is updated. 20:34:16 wat 20:34:25 I added the fizziecoin to it. 20:34:29 yay 20:35:42 If I knew it was going to end up in print, I'd've uploaded a higher-resolution version. 20:35:48 is there a website that emulated mosaic or netscape or something so i can see old renders of modern webistes to amuse myself 20:36:08 get real mosaic 20:36:23 see, that sounds suspiciously like work. 20:36:44 https://twitter.com/search?q=smell%20colon <-- you know, i think i'll pass. 20:36:50 I need to find a publisher who can get me the PDF printed on A5 paper... 20:37:01 oerjan: it's way funnier than you think 20:37:15 kmc: I'll admit it took me a few tweets to understand what was going on. 20:37:51 kmc: will my mind and remaining faith in humanity survive visiting it? 20:37:59 unclear 20:38:08 oerjan: wait you still have some left 20:38:36 * boily lends some of his own sanity over to oerjan 20:39:42 * oerjan now is somehow thoroughly convinced of his sanity despite all the evidence 20:45:42 * oerjan thinks his sanity survived that link, in a hypothetical manner 20:45:51 The Convinsanity Brand®! The best OTC sanity on the market! For all your sanity troubles, demand Convinsanity! 20:46:26 (side effects may include delusions, sightings of moose, alopecia, and a hunger for tofu. If you are a pregnant marmoset, do not take Convinsanity.) 20:46:58 ~duck alopecia 20:46:59 Alopecia (from Classical Greek 20:47:08 thank you, metasepia. 20:47:14 @wn alopecia 20:47:15 *** "alopecia" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 20:47:16 alopecia 20:47:16 n 1: loss of hair (especially on the head) or loss of wool or 20:47:17 feathers; in humans it can result from heredity or hormonal 20:47:21 imbalance or certain diseases or drugs and treatments 20:47:23 (chemotherapy for cancer) 20:48:16 * oerjan gives boily's sanity back, after spraying it with colon 20:49:16 fizzie: your bot has contaminated and corrupted mine. he hasn't balanced his parenthesises! 20:49:45 speaking of moose, I forgot my orange one on my desk back in Montréal. 20:49:46 preflex: calc (1 + 2 20:49:47 3 20:49:55 who needs balanced parens anyway 20:49:59 boily: you did not say removing your sanity again would cause instant near-fatal laughter 20:50:02 oh, a new bot! 20:50:34 oerjan: I'm listening to an experimental album. it is forbidden by law to laugh during listening to experimental music. 20:50:42 preflex: botsnack 20:50:42 yum 20:50:47 preflex: 2st 20:50:48 preflex: 2st 4 20:50:48 :( 20:50:57 preflex: 6st 4 20:50:58 4th 20:51:09 preflex: poke 20:51:22 preflex: hello 20:51:23 -!- ais523 has left (" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api"). 20:51:30 hm. not very talkative, eh? 20:51:32 oh there we go 20:51:32 preflex: 6st 5 20:51:33 5th 20:51:35 its default action is silence 20:51:36 preflex doesn't like me :( 20:51:46 preflex: calc head [1, 2, 3] 20:51:46 Lexical error 20:51:57 preflex: calc [2] .* [3] 20:51:57 Lexical error 20:52:06 preflex: calc 1i 20:52:06 Lexical error 20:52:23 preflex: calc (head [1, 2, 3] 20:52:24 Lexical error 20:52:33 preflex: calc 1 2 3 + * 20:52:33 7 20:53:43 preflex: calc 2 2 2 2 2 ^ ^ ^ ^ 20:53:43 inf 20:54:08 WEAK 20:54:30 exercise: explain why the expression above results in 7 20:54:32 ~eval 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 20:54:34 Error (1): 20:54:39 ~eval 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 20:54:40 20035299304068464649790723515602557504478254755697514192650169737108940595563114530895061308809333481010382343429072631818229493821188126688695063647615470291650418719163515879663472194429309279820843091048559905701593189596395248633723672030029169695921561087649488892540908059114570376752085002066715637023661263597471448071117748158809141357427209671901518362825606180914588526998261414250301233911082736038437678764490432059603791244909057075603140350 20:54:59 some tall numbers for a cuttlefish 20:55:08 * boily pats his bot 20:55:34 ~eval 1 2 3 + * 20:55:34 Error (1): :1:9: parse error on input `*' 20:55:37 weak 20:57:52 preflex: calc 1 2 + 3 * 20:57:52 7 20:58:05 preflex: calc 1 2 + 20:58:05 3 20:58:14 preflex: calc 3 3 * 20:58:14 9 20:58:29 preflex: calc * + 1 2 3 20:58:29 5 20:59:04 preflex: calc + * 1 2 3 20:59:05 7 20:59:58 preflex: calc 1 1 1 1 1 1 * + * + + 20:59:58 4 21:00:19 my theory seems to hold 21:00:41 preflex: calc 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 21:00:41 inf 21:00:47 what is your theory? 21:00:49 preflex: calc 1 2 2 2 + * * 21:00:49 9 21:01:02 preflex: calc + * * 1 2 2 2 21:01:03 9 21:01:06 preflex: calc + * * 2 2 2 1 21:01:06 6 21:01:12 what the fungot is going on. 21:01:12 boily: gonna go get it now? i seem to remember 21:01:31 that it's spreading the operators between the numbers and then interpreting the result as infix 21:01:46 preflex: calc 1 2 + 3 21:01:46 Too many operands 21:02:30 yeah, that's equivalent to the truth 21:02:41 mauke: but then, + * * 1 2 2 2 should produce 12? 21:02:53 oh wait. 21:02:53 how so? 21:03:02 operator precedence. 21:03:12 preflex: calc 1( + 2 21:03:12 3 21:03:16 how about this one? 21:03:30 preflex: calc (1 2) 2 2 + * * 21:03:30 9 21:03:34 ...? 21:03:46 ouch 21:03:51 preflex: calc 1 2 2 2 +) * * 21:03:51 12 21:05:13 preflex: calc 2 2 2 2 2 ^ ) ^ ) ^ ) ^ 21:05:13 65536 21:06:27 preflex: calc 2 2 2 2 2 ^ ( ^ ^ ) ^ 21:06:27 1.157920892373162e+77 21:06:57 > 2^16^2 21:06:58 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 21:07:08 > 2**16**2 21:07:09 1.157920892373162e77 21:08:04 i am guessing it adds ('s to the left end and )'s to the right end until parentheses balance 21:08:29 that's the string rewriting interpretation 21:09:29 the actual parsing algorithm is one I invented myself when I didn't know about recursive descent 21:09:49 preflex: calc 2 2 2 ( ( ^ ^ 21:09:49 16 21:10:21 consider a simple expression of the form expr := value (operator value)* 21:10:47 that is, an expression is a sequence of one or more values with operators in between 21:11:24 the parser proceeds by reading symbols from left to right and inserting each into the expression tree 21:12:04 the expression tree starts out as a simple value hole at the root 21:12:36 each value is inserted at the hole (there is always exactly one hole when a value is read) 21:13:07 operators climb down the right hand side of the tree 21:13:44 when they hit a value, they replace it by a new node of the form (operator, value, ), thus forming a new hole at the rightmost leaf of the tree 21:13:58 when they hit an operator, they do battle by comparing their precedence 21:14:56 -!- carado has joined. 21:15:10 if the new operator has a higher precedence, it continues climbing down 21:15:27 otherwise it does an insert at the current node, using the old node as its left subtree 21:16:09 what happens when you insert more than one value before getting any operators 21:16:22 doesn't happen in the current model 21:16:33 we're still considering simple expressions only 21:16:46 um 21:16:56 preflex: calc 1 1 1 1 + + + 21:16:56 4 21:17:14 parens are handled by giving each operator node an instance precedence (in addition to its base precedence) 21:17:47 e.g. + has a base precedence of 1 (and * 2) 21:18:30 mauke: in 1 1 1 1 + + + what happens when the second 1 is parsed 21:18:37 instance precedence = current level * max precedence + base precedence 21:18:47 the current level starts out as 0 21:18:58 ( increments the current level; ) decrements it 21:19:31 thus )+ forms an operator with precedence = -1 * 3 + 1 = -2 21:19:57 ah 21:20:12 what preflex actually uses is an extension of this algorithm 21:20:25 all values are put into a separate list 21:20:26 preflex: calc 1 1 1 1 ( ) + + + 21:20:27 4 21:20:39 the operators are used to construct the expression tree 21:20:49 -!- Zuu has changed nick to Z[_]. 21:20:49 all leaves of the expression tree will be holes 21:20:56 then the values are inserted from left to right 21:21:46 ok 21:21:47 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:00 preflex: calc 1 + + 2 21:22:00 Not enough mana 21:22:19 it first checks to see whether the number of holes matches the number of values 21:24:37 ploki doesn't use this algorithm because I knew even less about parsers when I "designed" ploki 21:24:55 (ploki simply evaluates left to right) 21:25:04 -!- yiyus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:26:29 -!- Z[_] has changed nick to Z[_][_]. 21:27:52 `run echo '(1 + 2 * 3' | ploki 21:27:54 9 21:28:01 (but you still don't have to balance your parens) 21:28:01 -!- yiyus has joined. 21:29:07 -!- Z[_][_] has changed nick to Z[_][_][_]. 21:30:27 `run echo '(1 + 2) * (3 + 4)' | ploki 21:30:28 21 21:32:03 -!- Z[_][_][_] has changed nick to Zuu. 21:37:13 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:39:42 @tell elliott i'm not sure if that thing you removed was trolling, but if not it's probably something worse than lolcode... 21:39:42 Consider it noted. 21:40:48 worse than lolcode? 21:41:20 boily: the poster seemed to speak entirely in lolspeak 21:41:38 I reverted it because I know exactly what it is 21:41:42 also the post was contentless 21:42:00 elliott: what is c+= then? 21:42:03 a message from a lolorc from loldor... 21:42:23 it's sort of hard to google 21:46:36 moved over to the basement and the hearth → https://www.dropbox.com/s/grejkhn9px0mxj6/2013-12-30%2016.44.31.jpg 21:48:23 (fire is good. I like fire.) 21:49:39 `? boily 21:49:41 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser, and a Man Eating Chicken. 21:50:54 it's so long... 21:51:54 I know. there were also other things going on in my description before it got munged, mashed, reworked, and completely upheaved. 21:52:45 `run echo "Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken." >wisdom/'things boily likes' 21:52:48 No output. 21:54:15 `run echo "Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở." >wisdom/'things boily likes' 21:54:18 No output. 21:54:29 aurgh! 21:54:38 just as I updated the PDF. 21:54:45 oerjan, you are merciless. 21:55:08 I'm still a bit surprised it isn't automatic. (With a DSL of exceptions for exceptional entries.) 21:55:32 `run grep ở wisdom/* 21:55:35 Binary file wisdom/irrelevant info matches \ wisdom/phở:phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. \ wisdom/things boily likes:Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở. 21:56:12 fizzie: it's... well. uhm. I... you see... 21:56:15 boily: well at least i didn't make you bring up an entirely new language font this time. 21:56:18 `? irrelevant info 21:56:20 KHL?%y9vnkM_v46$Tn`ʋxkH2gqH;!;2F(zإ2CmXW 21:56:24 Good. 21:56:55 oerjan: I'd have to say the vietnamese was the hardest “feature” I had to mix in the PDF. 21:57:15 fizzie: I shamelessly skipped that one. if you want, you can add it and commit the changes. 21:57:30 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 21:57:43 I don't know, it sounds a bit ambiguous as for rendering, what with all those control characters. 21:58:03 http://examplea.acom/ 21:58:08 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 21:59:00 `run sed -i 's/p/P/' wisdom/phở 21:59:03 No output. 21:59:11 `? phở 21:59:13 Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. 22:01:10 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 22:17:46 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:26:37 Thought of the day: would be nice to know some statistics on how much sieni.us has been watched while being some kind of intoxicated, and how much not. (Was trying to find out why a melody was familiar.) 22:27:10 I am thinking of switching operating systems 22:27:44 -!- ais523 has left (" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api"). 22:28:39 fizzie, what OS should I use 22:28:48 IMPORTANT QUESTION WITH NEXT TO NO CONTEXT 22:30:09 TempleOS 22:30:22 ^^^^^^^^^^^ 22:30:55 Nah 22:31:00 TempleOS is some sort of newfangled nonsense, LoseThos or bust. 22:31:37 As for a (serious|boring) answer, I would think it sort of depends on what you're "gunna" be doing with it. 22:32:06 Mostly browsing the web and trying to program, occasional gaming 22:32:16 win xp 22:32:59 MacOS and NetWare 5 that boot simultaneously. 22:32:59 Nah 22:33:24 coyotos 22:33:27 Thinking of throwing myself at NixOS 22:34:18 I've just used a dual-boot Debian + Windows for pretty much those things, but that's really the boringest. (Functional, though.) 22:36:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:36:48 * boily mapoles mauke 22:37:18 Taneb: don't listen to this rag-tag bunch of non-believers. use the REALEST MOST BESTEST OS OF THEM ALL! 22:37:44 Taneb: embrace linux. become one with it. abandon your soul to the bien-être of the Penguin! 22:38:05 slackware or gentoo? 22:38:18 * boily continues to mapole mauke 22:38:20 Arch! 22:38:38 I... had problems with Arch that will not occur this time but now I am scared of Arch 22:39:17 Arch is the best. 22:39:24 Don't you dare say otherwise. 22:39:43 I never said it wasn't! Only that it scared me. 22:39:58 there's even a wiki page for that! https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_is_the_best 22:40:21 I did not know that existed. Thank you. 22:45:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:47:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TIMED CHICKEN). 22:47:29 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:07:51 'embrace linux'? I think boily wants you to attempt LFS, Taneb 23:08:07 :O 23:09:20 I think he just meant to give linux a hug, it needs it 23:10:26 It does. 23:22:41 i like "arch iz da shizzle ma nizzle" 23:26:55 "haskell - the language where IO is easy and unproblematic" 23:27:35 i personally use a perl ffi for output in all my haskell programs 23:30:38 This typewriter was the best 5 pounds I have ever spend 23:54:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 2013-12-31: 00:01:21 I... had problems with Arch that will not occur this time but now I am scared of Arch 00:01:21 i've used arch for like two years 00:01:24 i am scared of arch 00:01:39 don't make the mistakes i did! 00:07:10 arch is scary as shit but it's not as scary as slackware. 00:17:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:20:00 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:30:21 -!- glogbackup has joined. 00:30:39 -!- conehead has joined. 00:32:50 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU1NTc cool 00:44:51 how is arch scary? 00:46:04 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:47:31 myname, I had some problems installing it on my laptop due to problems with a) the university internet, and b) my laptop 00:47:41 Also, it gave me NOTHING 00:47:43 NOTHING 00:48:01 well, i saw Arch in the gym once, trying to bench press like three hundred pounds. they almost managed it, but couldn't, and got so frustrated, they kicked the bed and it fell over 00:48:30 what 00:48:59 Right? I mean you have to worry about that. 00:50:56 damn straight 00:54:50 -!- carado has joined. 00:54:52 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:15:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:52:36 -!- ^v has joined. 01:53:10 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:01:56 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:03:38 -!- conehead has joined. 02:13:08 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:18:56 -!- korisha has joined. 02:19:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:29:01 -!- korisha has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:34:03 -!- ksendzova has joined. 02:37:43 elliott: https://proofmarket.org/ 02:37:52 -!- ksendzova has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:38:09 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:39:28 -!- Bike has joined. 03:07:56 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:33:11 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 03:40:53 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:46:20 -!- sseehh_ has joined. 03:47:21 -!- sseehh_ has left ("Leaving"). 04:15:25 Didn't robotstxt.org used to not have ads/ 04:16:40 o.O 2007 it switched. I feel old. 04:17:57 in 2007 i was six years old 04:19:04 really? 04:19:13 not really 04:19:14 that... doesn't quite add up 04:20:26 if i was twelve i couldn't have gotten so blazed with sgeo back in indiana 04:21:58 what 04:22:13 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:23:29 cool party once we figured out how to circumvent the import restrictions. can you believe they won't let you bring kegs of potassium iodide? 04:42:41 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:42:51 -!- mauke has joined. 04:45:01 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:45:29 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:45:55 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 04:46:42 today in SF i saw a billboard reading "Facebook is #1, huh? I dare you to check out www.PrimeHangout.com Let the competition begin" 04:47:56 kidneyfilm 04:48:13 anusblog 04:48:19 https://twitter.com/search?q=smell%20colon 04:48:55 kmc: i double dog dare you to check it out 04:52:58 -!- tromp__ has joined. 04:53:49 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:54:23 -!- tromp__ has joined. 04:54:51 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:59:17 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:25:20 * Sgeo is unsure if Oz's approach to IO is morally distinct from lazy I/O 05:25:25 At least Oz doesn't claim to be pure 05:25:43 But I can see finalization being a problem... I think 05:26:38 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:36:24 -!- drlemon has joined. 05:54:00 A nice screenshot of Mozart/Oz in action: http://mozart.github.io/mozart-v1/doc-1.4.0/mozart-stdlib/wp/qtk/html/picture100.gif 05:57:55 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:04:21 -!- kmc has set topic: SURLYSPAWN is part of the ANGRYNEIGHBOR family of radar retro-reflectors. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 06:18:10 http://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/nsa-ant-ragemaster.jpg 06:18:31 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 06:20:50 http://i.imgur.com/qwZih9U.jpg Khadafy 06:21:31 yep looks just like him 06:26:43 Sgeo: is this like... intentional 06:26:57 Bike: I assume not 06:37:09 I THINK I UNDERSTAND DUAL NUMBERS NOW 06:37:28 Or... maybe? 06:37:28 http://mathwithbaddrawings.com/2013/08/07/0-999-and-the-debate-that-repeats-forever/ 06:37:45 Is the ε that that page describes the thing in dual numbers? 06:37:49 the fuck is a dual number 06:37:59 do you mean nonstandard numbers 06:38:16 ε^2 = 0 06:38:51 ε!=0 06:39:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIwUAqavC7I 06:39:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_number 06:39:47 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:40:23 you can have a real times that eps, so, no 06:40:57 0.999... is actually equal to 2 06:41:02 little known fact 06:42:15 anyway it seems the person who wrote that article is mostly right but doesn't really properly know why they're right 06:43:54 Bike: oh, make sense (bad way to phrase that though) 06:44:08 you're a bad way to phrase 06:44:35 Bike: Sgeo was telling you to make sense 06:44:48 i'm incapable 06:44:50 fungot: make sense 06:44:50 shachaf: why do think the media is happily trying to waste taxpayer money 06:44:52 *makes sense 06:45:02 fungot whoaaaaaaaa 06:45:02 shachaf: its not for everyone of course. hegel thought it was more like 06:45:32 hegel?? fungot don't do this to me 06:45:32 Bike: it's crashed like 6 times today. it also affects ability to understand quantified nouns 06:45:44 fungot: hegel was, like, the man. tell me more 06:45:44 shachaf: i think i'll do some work. fnord because it looks stupid 06:45:53 yes, i get that from hegel as well, fungot, why don't you talk about spinoza or something instead 06:45:53 Bike: because it is evolutionarily superior to most computers. is that right? but now, by the way 06:46:14 no, fungot, it is not right. spinoza's computer was only evolutionary superior to some mechanical bookshelves. 06:46:14 Bike: i just mean, of course). cool! :d) 06:46:37 fungot: wow don't listen to Bike he's just a bicycle 06:46:37 shachaf: the place you applying isn't worth applying for i'd say it was a single large heap for all processes." 06:46:48 fungot: can i have more ""fungot wisdom"" 06:46:48 shachaf: some athena machines use various snapshots named fnord some others use 7.7.1 ( from fnord): 06:47:14 Sgeo: i mean, with a smallest possible nubmer your'e basically giving up on rationals. and who doesn't like rationals? 06:47:59 who says you need a smallest possible number 06:48:11 this adrian kid. 06:48:45 * Sgeo hides the 0 from Bike 06:49:01 smallest nonnegative number 06:49:11 * Sgeo keeps hiding the 0 from Bike 06:49:48 wow i'm not getting involved in a 0.9 argument 06:49:52 even a fake one 06:50:14 shachaf: don't you dare try to tell me that 0.999 repeating is equal to 0.9 06:50:21 the smallest nonnegative number is 0 06:50:22 duh 06:50:26 Bike: imo how about this 06:50:34 0.999... doesn't exist because it's an infinite sum 06:50:44 hahaha 06:50:47 and i'm a super duper constructivist, i only believe in things you can do in finite time 06:51:15 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + ... = 0 * inf = ? 06:51:31 i can convince people that .999... exists in finite time. your move 06:51:36 -!- Chillectual has joined. 06:51:39 prove it 06:51:49 also fuck the nonnegative thing you know what i mean argh. 06:51:49 btw i'm the only people in the world 06:52:01 how do youe xplain the eistence of jeorge bush 06:52:05 Bike: "strictly nonnegative" hth 06:52:30 bush is pretty negative in my book 06:52:54 0.999... is syntactic sugar for lim_{n->inf} sum_{i=1}^{n} 9 * 10^-i 06:53:23 You and your real math. Go have an i 06:53:31 i don't believe in lim, sry 06:53:44 wait, or do i believe in lim but just don't believe that that limit is the same as 1 06:54:18 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:54:42 http://math.andrej.com/2008/08/13/intuitionistic-mathematics-for-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-21652 06:55:41 golly, but you get such weird functions from diffs 06:56:08 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:57:08 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:57:35 i know a guy whose thesis is just on integrating products of besselffunctions. how wack is that 06:58:23 imo why 06:58:28 ffunctions⁈ 06:58:46 ffunction 06:58:54 they're like regular functions but louder 06:59:46 cos it helps understand optics in turbulent media, duh 07:00:00 turbulence is fucked up imo 07:00:36 shachaf: I know the (d/dx)(e^x)=e^x makes sense, but I don't know how to make heads or tales of that comment, whether it's sensible or idiotic 07:00:44 Which comment? 07:00:52 The one you linked to 07:01:05 "Anonymous: You’re right about the derivative of xn and wrong about the derivative of ex. " 07:01:06 The one by Bauer? 07:01:11 It's sensible. 07:01:11 yeah 07:01:12 Oh 07:01:15 `unidecode ꟼ 07:01:21 ​[U+A7FC LATIN EPIGRAPHIC LETTER REVERSED P] 07:03:20 it makes me sad that people have decided that http://adit.io/posts/2013-04-17-functors,_applicatives,_and_monads_in_pictures.html is a good introduction and link to it a lot 07:03:31 I'm sad that the IRTC is dead 07:03:38 But... RUSTY VIDEO I HAVEN"T SEEN BEFORE 07:03:40 i know the author, too. but that introduction makes me sad 07:04:39 why is it bad 07:05:57 -!- Chillectual has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:06:22 approximately the usual reasons 07:06:23 http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc/anims/2007-01-15/rusty032.mpg 07:07:13 bad analogies, subtle mistakes, missing or not explaining the point of an abstraction such that it seems pointless 07:11:14 ftp://ftp.irtc.org/pub/COPYRIGHT 07:11:21 So much for putting IRTC videos on YouTube 07:11:34 5. Entrant grants the right of private recreational or non-commercial 07:11:34 use to the general public, EXCEPTING THE RESTRICTIONS (5.1) AND (5.2) below. 07:11:34 5.1. Distribution is not allowed on any storage media that are 07:11:34 accessible over the Internet or similar Wide Area Networks. This prohibits 07:11:34 the use of these files on FTP, WWW or gopher sites, among others. 07:12:16 Well, technically YouTube would only be publically serving a derived work of the original files... which I guess counts? 07:18:58 http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc/anims/ 07:19:02 Such... low-quality 07:19:06 Someone should rerender some of them 07:19:16 who are you talking to 07:19:47 #esoteric 07:20:52 ok 07:25:56 man, squarepusher is fun. 07:27:39 http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc/stills/accepted/twstcube.jpg 07:28:00 that is not squarepusher 07:28:07 do you know squarepusher (geddit) 07:28:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:28:44 `unidecode ï̈ 07:28:45 ​[U+00EF LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH DIAERESIS] [U+0308 COMBINING DIAERESIS] 07:28:55 http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc/stills/accepted/dragon.jpg 07:28:56 metal 07:29:03 I have no idea how that's a dragon 07:29:20 think spine. think inside of liver. 07:29:22 it's fuckin pretty though 07:30:35 "The adventurer was weary; for more time than he cared to think he had been digging through the hinterlands of calculus, trying to resurrect long-lost skills. Suddenly, while leaning inward to examine a convoluted function, he finds himself staring into the eyes of a dragon. It's that diabolical worm, Complexity!" 07:30:40 http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc/stills/accepted/dragon.txt 07:31:07 "(POV-Ray seems like an excellent tool for visualization in an engineering context!)" 07:31:25 Ray-tracing might be overkill for engineering? Certainly a modeling language like that might be nice I guess 07:33:33 http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/graphics/irtc/stills/accepted/1004cplx.jpg 07:39:54 I should look to see what other renderers besides LuxRender have galleries 07:45:13 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:48:23 http://iml.univ-mrs.fr/~girard/0.pdf 07:56:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:57:25 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:59:24 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 08:01:44 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:03:01 If Cont is the mother of all monads, is there a name for the monads that ListT State s (or is it StateT [s]?) is the mother of? 08:03:55 It's Codensity, not Cont. 08:04:31 "mother" is not a precise relationship between monads. 08:26:39 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:28:27 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 08:33:00 -!- yiyus has joined. 08:45:25 Britain. http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/14/artificial-leg-prompts-paedophile-panic-at-swimming-pool-and-evacuation-of-children-4230694/ 08:50:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:51:05 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:58:19 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:02:47 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:04:58 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 09:09:13 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:09:38 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 09:50:57 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to ThisWasABadIdea. 09:51:12 -!- ThisWasABadIdea has changed nick to LetUsNotForget. 09:51:20 -!- LetUsNotForget has changed nick to WhoWeAre. 09:51:28 -!- WhoWeAre has changed nick to AndWhereWeCameFr. 09:51:34 -!- AndWhereWeCameFr has changed nick to LinearInterpol. 09:52:11 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:00:41 -!- tromp_ has joined. 10:05:07 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:06:09 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 10:06:39 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:18:03 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:26:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:53:45 darn it, I wanted to ask ais something before he went to bed 10:55:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:57:40 AnotherTest: do you pass the turing test? 10:58:07 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:58:42 * oerjan senses from the logs that Bike may not live in quite the same reality as the rest of us. and that his reality has an alternate Sgeo. 10:59:54 idea: a bot that passes the turing test by complaining loudly about the insult of putting it to the test. 11:05:02 haha 11:05:17 so basically a rob ford bot 11:19:15 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:19:57 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 11:19:57 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:08:01 There are no numbers above 7? 12:08:49 that's stronger than "all odd numbers (other than 1) are prime" 12:09:46 (Well, the two statements are logically equivalent. At least it's not weaker.) 12:13:15 `factor -3 12:13:20 factor: invalid option -- '3' \ Try `factor --help' for more information. 12:13:26 weak. 12:13:48 `factor 1729 12:13:50 1729: 7 13 19 12:15:01 `factor -- -3 12:15:03 factor: unrecognized option '-- -3' \ Try `factor --help' for more information. 12:15:17 `run factor -- -3 12:15:18 factor: ‘-3’ is not a valid positive integer 12:15:19 factor: `-3' is not a valid positive integer 12:15:34 `factor --version 12:15:36 factor (GNU coreutils) 8.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later . \ This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. \ There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. \ \ Written by Paul Rubin. 12:15:48 discriminating against the negatives again 12:16:48 How dou you count strongness? 12:16:50 *do 12:17:17 There are no numbers > There are no numbers above 7? 12:17:25 -!- yorick has joined. 12:18:40 theoretically, there can only be one conjecture stronger than that. since otherwise there would be more than 7. 12:19:04 qed 12:19:06 mroman: I would say that a statement A is stronger than B if A "obviously" implies B. Logically, "obviously" cannot be defined, so in the end the implication is all that's left. 12:20:47 I see. 12:24:05 Ah, we could explain the implication more explicitely using models. A is stronger than B (in a theory T) if every model of A (and T) is also a model of B. 12:24:10 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:24:24 I don't know about models 12:24:32 but it sounds like if B is a subset of A 12:24:55 then A is stronger 12:24:58 or actually... 12:25:01 "smaller" 12:25:36 which sounds the same as your implication explanation 12:25:46 A model specifies how operations used in formulas work. A model of the natural numbers would be a set of numbers together with successor, addition and multiplication. 12:26:11 and what distinguishes them from a group 12:26:13 or ring? 12:26:49 oh 12:26:55 The notion of models is more general. A group is a model of the group axioms. A field is a model of the field axioms. 12:26:59 the model actually defines what a successor is? 12:28:30 yes, it does 12:29:39 `factor 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 12:29:40 factor: `170141183460469231731687303715884105727' is too large 12:30:04 `factor 9223372036854775808 12:30:05 9223372036854775808: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 12:30:10 HackEgo: USE THE QUANTUM 12:30:42 > 2^100 12:30:43 1267650600228229401496703205376 12:30:48 > 2^150 12:30:49 1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746624 12:30:58 `factor 1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746624 12:31:00 factor: `1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746624' is too large 12:31:09 HackEgo: YOU'RE NOT EVEN TRYING 12:31:17 `factor 18446744073709551615 12:31:19 18446744073709551615: 3 5 17 257 641 65537 6700417 12:31:21 `factor 18446744073709551616 12:31:22 factor: `18446744073709551616' is too large 12:31:26 > 2^64 12:31:27 18446744073709551616 12:32:01 `eval factorize 18446744073709551617 12:32:02 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eval: not found 12:32:19 W|A can factor 1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746624 just fine. 12:32:49 so can gp/pari 12:33:07 But does it have a "step-by-step solution" button? 12:33:15 (Though I'd need to sign in for that to actually do anything.) 12:33:22 > mod 18446744073709551617 7 12:33:23 3 12:33:26 hah. 12:33:48 I mean, that particular case is probably fine ... just 150 trial divisions. 12:34:04 > mod 18446744073709551617 <$> [7,11,13,19,23] 12:34:05 [3,6,4,18,7] 12:34:22 hm not that easy 12:34:42 It doesn't give a step-by-step solution button for the prime 170141183460469231731687303715884105727 -- at least in the same box. 12:34:47 > 1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746625 == 5^3*13*41*61*101*1201*1321*8101*63901*268401*13334701*1182468601 12:34:48 False 12:34:58 (There's a step-by-step solution button in the "divisors" box, though.) 12:35:35 For the prime factorization of 1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746625 there is the button. I'm tempted, but not tempted enough to make an account. 12:35:55 > mod 18446744073709551617 <$> [29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59] 12:35:56 [25,17,13,17,42,26,16,6] 12:36:24 > 1427247692705959881058285969449495136382746625 == product [5,5,5,13,41,61,101,1201,1321,8101,63901,268501,13334701,1182468601] 12:36:25 True 12:36:41 fizzie: so what does a step-by-step solution for that look like? 12:37:24 `factor 18446744073709551617 12:37:25 factor: `18446744073709551617' is too large 12:37:30 oh w|a says the smallest factor is 274177 12:37:30 > mod 18446744073709551617 <$> [274177, 67280421310721] -- oerjan: let's just cut to the chase, eh? 12:37:31 [0,0] 12:37:36 pari says ... 274177*67280421310721. right. 12:37:47 int-e: I don't know; that's why I was tempted. 12:38:22 * int-e should do some shopping before the shops close, bbl. 12:38:52 `factor 1182468601 12:38:53 1182468601: 1182468601 12:39:09 in fact, how does a step by step solution for this (a primality test) look like? :-) 12:39:24 no wonder fermat was confused about these numbers. 12:39:32 It doesn't give a step-by-step solution button for (large) primes. 12:39:54 Or for that 18446744073709551617 either. 12:40:05 (One would have to look at primality certificates. Maybe some of those are verifiable by humans.) 12:41:52 oh right fermat numbers must have factors of a particular form 12:42:14 `factor 274176 12:42:15 274176: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 7 17 12:45:14 yes, i get that from hegel as well, fungot, why don't you talk about spinoza or something instead <-- yeah everyone else is just a spin-off 12:45:15 oerjan: this bug seems to have been removed from cvs already. ( i don't know 13:04:17 -!- tertu has joined. 13:06:57 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:10:21 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:43:15 It's a good thing that fungot is self-sentinent so that it knows about bugs in its source-code that have been fixed 13:43:15 FireFly: unix using ascii. do you get? 13:43:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:49:00 `pastlog oVXmWnfARC4 13:49:32 No output. 13:49:36 `pastlog oVXmWnfARC4 13:50:08 No output. 13:50:23 i guess no one's linked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVXmWnfARC4 here before 13:50:36 (youtube suggested it to me >_>) 14:00:20 I have just thought of something ridiculous 14:01:01 But very interesting 14:01:06 And probably already done 14:02:40 @pinky Are you thinking what Taneb is thinking? 14:02:40 Uh, I think so Brain, but this time, you wear the tutu. 14:04:26 -!- boily has joined. 14:04:44 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:05:59 ~metar ENVA 14:06:00 ENVA 311350Z 28004KT 9999 VCSH FEW034 OVC048 06/01 Q0997 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 26011KT 14:10:31 `ello metasepia 14:10:34 metasepello 14:10:47 huh 14:10:50 neat. 14:10:58 also, good cryogenic morning! 14:11:02 ~metar CYQB 14:11:03 CYQB 311400Z 27002KT 30SM BKN085 BKN110 M22/M28 A3015 RMK AC5AC2 SLP218 14:12:07 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:12:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:12:31 -!- tertu has joined. 14:15:39 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:19:09 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:20:41 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:20:53 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:37:44 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:38:07 -!- tertu has joined. 14:38:19 -!- LinearInterpol has joined. 14:43:35 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:46:12 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:46:59 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:48:06 -!- tertu has joined. 14:52:48 hellinelloarintellorpellol. 14:53:02 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:55:46 -!- tertu3 has joined. 14:57:15 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:58:33 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:00:04 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:07:23 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:07:26 ~metar ESSA 15:07:27 ESSA 311450Z 19013KT 9999 FEW020 SCT040 04/01 Q1012 R01L/29//95 R08/29//95 R01R/29//95 NOSIG 15:09:19 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:17:57 happy new year at UTC+08:42:03! 15:20:24 lifthrasiir: wait is that an actual timezone 15:20:43 dunno 15:22:05 @localtime lifthrasiir 15:22:07 Local time for lifthrasiir is Wed Jan 1 00:22:06 2014 15:22:36 새해 복 많이 받으세요! 15:23:10 thank you! 15:24:22 (that reminds me I need to set-up korean in my terminal. the default font choice is... creative. not quite zalgo-esque, but it has some eldritch tendencies.) 15:26:12 maybe it's north korean, that would do it right 15:41:28 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:43:40 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:47:26 -!- pointpen has joined. 15:53:12 -!- carado has joined. 15:57:19 -!- olsner has joined. 16:01:43 -!- pointpen has quit (K-Lined). 16:09:02 -!- Sorella` has joined. 16:09:42 happy old year, boily! 16:10:10 joyeuse vieille année, quintopia! 16:10:58 what are you going to do with all this time? 16:12:26 today? work, then a few jousts of towerfall, then yearend TV specials. probably going to involve a few cups of wine here and there. 16:12:30 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:12:33 (and an ounce or two of scotch :D) 16:13:17 oh, is canada already in the future? 16:13:44 -!- AwfulProgrammer_ has joined. 16:14:31 hmm, are you ahead or behind in time? should be behind, if japan is ahead 16:14:32 olsner: you're more futury than me. it's still a quarter past 11am here. 16:14:52 * olsner of the future says hi 16:15:17 quarter past five here 16:15:20 What's 2014 like? 16:15:50 impomatic: you'll have to ask lifthrasiir. he's the most Futurian of us all. I think. 16:16:11 * impomatic plans to complete OMEGA by Origin in 2014 :-) 16:16:22 `? zimbabwe 16:16:24 olsner's desk points zimbabwards. it is highly dependent on tswett's michiganic orientation. 16:16:33 fwiw, 2014 has the same number of factors as 2013, and their average is the same 16:16:37 boily, it's like... Wednesday. 16:17:04 lifthrasiir: what color is wednesday? 16:17:08 impomatic: apparently, 2014 is made of factors and wednesdays. 16:18:03 olsner, kind error 16:18:41 "I have a file named a┤rv.txt on Windows, I'd like to know if this file exists." 16:18:46 these stackoverflow questions are getting philosophical 16:19:00 I'm not quite sure what color kind error is, but it could be a great color to start a year 16:19:15 -!- monotone_ has joined. 16:20:09 the new Kind Error Collection from Holt Renfrew. 16:21:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:22:57 `run factor 2013; factor 2014 16:22:59 2013: 3 11 61 \ 2014: 2 19 53 16:23:06 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:23:30 -!- coppro_ has joined. 16:23:39 oops, actually, 2013 has 0.3 higher average factor 16:23:47 shocking 16:23:47 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:23:47 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:23:56 or 1/3, to be more exact 16:24:00 -!- monotone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:24:00 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:24:03 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:24:04 -!- AwfulProgrammer_ has changed nick to AwfulProgrammer. 16:24:15 -!- myndzi has joined. 16:24:58 ~eval let avg xs = fromIntegral (sum xs) / fromIntegral (length xs) in (avg . primeFactors $ 2013) - (avg . primeFactors $ 2014) 16:25:07 0.33333333333333215 16:25:31 ooh 16:26:04 ~eval let avg xs = fromIntegral (sum xs) % fromIntegral (length xs) in (avg . primeFactors $ 2013) - (avg . primeFactors $ 2014) 16:26:05 1 % 3 16:26:44 > findIndex id $ zipWith(==)`ap`tail $ avg . primeFactors <$> [1..] 16:26:45 Not in scope: `avg'Not in scope: `primeFactors' 16:26:56 oops 16:26:58 neener neener :D 16:27:10 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to monotone. 16:27:27 ~eval let avg xs = fromIntegral (sum xs) / fromIntegral (length xs) in findIndex id $ zipWith(==)`ap`tail $ avg . primeFactors <$> [1..] 16:27:28 Just 734 16:27:39 `run factor 2013.5 16:27:41 factor: `2013.5' is not a valid positive integer 16:28:03 `run factor 20135 16:28:04 20135: 5 4027 16:28:19 `run factor 733; factor 734; factor 735 16:28:21 733: 733 \ 734: 2 367 \ 735: 3 5 7 7 16:28:26 .5 and 4027 or 5 and 402.7 then 16:29:16 `run factor 736 16:29:18 736: 2 2 2 2 2 23 16:29:40 ~eval let avg xs = fromIntegral (sum xs) / fromIntegral (length xs) in avg . primeFactors <$> [732..] 16:29:41 [17.0,733.0,184.5,5.5,5.5,39.0,12.25,739.0,11.5,11.666666666666666,20.666666666666668,743.0,8.0,77.0,187.5,29.666666666666668,8.0,57.0,4.0,751.0,11.0,127.0,14.666666666666666,78.0,3.3333333333333335,757.0,190.5,12.333333333333334,6.0,761.0,44.0,58.0,65.0,7.0,192.5,36.0,2.111111111111111,769.0,6.25,130.0,65.66666666666667,773.0,12.75,13.666666666666666,25.75,15.666666666666666,195.5,30.0,5.0,41.0,14.0,9.5,3.6666666666666665,81.0,45.333333333333336,787. 16:30:11 oh the off by one is in the other direction 16:31:02 [1..] !! 734 is 735, and the tail has the next entry on the same index 16:31:59 `run echo "An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction" >wisdom/'off by two error' 16:32:03 No output. 16:32:54 or off by one point five error. (like OpenGL pixel-perfect rendering, for example) 16:33:10 `run mv wisdom/off\ by\ two\ error wisdom/off\ by\ two 16:33:14 No output. 16:33:45 boily: bfjoust is better than towerfall 16:33:54 what's a radar retro-reflector? 16:34:39 I assume something that reflects typical radar signals well towards their source. 16:34:53 isn't that just a reflector? 16:34:53 Based on what the retro-reflectors they've put on the moon are like. 16:34:54 something that bounces a radar signal directly back at the transmitter 16:35:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:35:08 no matter what angle the incoming signal is coming from 16:35:15 ah, towards the source 16:35:16 yes 16:36:41 * oerjan wonders if those are good defenses against laser weapons 16:36:49 lifthrasiir: oh, that's where it comes from? I guess that's why does that too 16:37:18 well visible light ones 16:38:01 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:38:03 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:38:22 -!- metasepia has joined. 16:38:24 -!- boily has joined. 16:38:35 hm i suppose they would have the disadvantage of being extremely easy to search for 16:39:20 quintopia: I can punch my bro when playing Towerfall. 16:39:32 FireFly, google for "diamond exit rule", I think. (and AFAIK it does not affect the rendering of triangle primitives) 16:39:37 which would be an argumet against putting them on armor 16:39:42 *+n 16:40:06 maybe you could enable and disable the retroreflectiveness, and only enable them when being hit by a bright enough laser beam 16:40:18 -!- Jafet has joined. 16:40:37 oerjan: Sounds like it might be a tradeoff between the reflection coefficient you can achieve (presumably higher for a simple reflective surface) and the possibly desirable feature of doing something to the source. 16:40:38 well that would require an active device 16:40:53 oerjan: You could just coat a reflective surface with something that burns away easily when hit by a laser. 16:40:56 oerjan: That's pretty passive. 16:41:14 (But still black until shot at.) 16:41:15 fizzie: huh 16:41:41 (Disclaimer: IANAWD.) 16:42:09 I am not a wizard dog? 16:42:13 fizzie: you are not a weapon of destruction? 16:42:18 Weapon designer. 16:42:26 ... 16:42:28 wizard dog. 16:42:37 I'm with LinearInterpol here. 16:42:38 I have to admit I'm not a wizard dog either. 16:42:46 we know you are. 16:42:50 (Incidentally, "energy weapon" sounds pretty silly, since it's so vague.) 16:42:55 airborne wizard dog 16:44:00 google translate is of no help here. we could have had “Fizzie, King of Airborne Wizard Dogs” in Finnish. 16:44:20 something something koira hth 16:45:15 except probably some other case 16:46:26 Apparently Google Translate translates en:wizard to sv:guide, presumably because of setup wizard thingys 16:46:57 boily: Fizzie, kuningas ilmassa ohjatun koiria hth 16:47:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:47:11 (_not_ capitalizing everything helped.) 16:47:59 `? fizzie 16:48:02 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 16:48:20 how do you pronounce “hth” in Finnish? 16:48:30 boily: painfully 16:48:44 that makes my mouth hurt just reading that. 16:49:00 oerjan: the PDF is updated ♪ 16:49:46 -!- conehead has joined. 16:50:27 boily: wait with what. oh right. 16:51:50 LinearInterpol: apparently, it's easier in Finnish: en:hth → fi:tea. 16:51:52 -!- hogeyui__ has joined. 16:52:03 ...huh. 16:52:49 and then, you have fr:eça. 16:52:50 "Lentävien velhokoirien kuningas" (lit. "[flying] [of wizard dogs] [king]") would be more natural Finnish, if you want the fantasy kind of wizard. 16:53:41 and norwegian ruins all with hdh, hth 16:54:01 no:“hope dhat helps”? 16:54:21 CLOSE 16:54:46 (håper det hjelper) 16:56:18 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:56:59 I'd invest in fizziecoins 16:57:49 oerjan: http://www.cederroth.com/temp/2130047399.png hth 16:58:27 * boily is rainbowly frightened 16:58:45 im scared of colors. 17:01:00 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:01:35 hth is hdh in swedish too hth 17:01:53 (hoppas det hjlper) 17:02:20 I KNEW IT *MWAHAHAHAHA* 17:02:25 and hth in english is hdh (helps dry hands) 17:02:43 aide à sécher les mains. 17:03:01 boily: i think that's backwards 17:03:06 boily: that's not english 17:03:09 this is dry the adjective 17:03:51 aide à les mains séches maybe? 17:04:05 aide les mains sèches. 17:04:14 (aider is transitive.) 17:04:54 ô kaille 17:05:13 I'll have to remember that one. «ô kaille». he he he :D 17:05:32 fizzie: are you flying or are the wizard dogs flying? 17:06:16 TTOA ("toivottavasti tästä oli apua") might be a Finnish hth hth 17:08:02 "Swanbeck upptäckte i mitten av 1960-talet att torr hud har brist på fuktgivande ämnen." shocking 17:08:36 indeed, amazing discovery 17:09:38 sounds ominous... 17:10:23 like we say here, «plus qu'il neige, plus qu'il y a de la neige.» 17:10:44 In other news: taking a shower gets you wet because of an abundance of water? 17:11:49 clearly publishable paper there 17:12:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:12:55 fizzie: actually it's the wetness of the water that does it 17:13:29 -!- Sorella` has changed nick to Sorella. 17:13:29 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 17:13:30 -!- Sorella has joined. 17:14:08 gt seems to have this strange idea il y a should have an accent 17:15:10 who're gt and ilya? 17:15:33 gt = google translate. ilya is some russian. 17:15:41 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 17:16:02 oerjan: gt is wrong. WRONG! 17:16:24 gt can also mean: gin and tonic 17:16:26 boily: other google sources made me suspect as much. 17:16:50 around trondheim, mostly ilya dubkov. 17:19:39 Gran Turismo. 17:19:57 «il y a», literally “he have at this place” 17:21:30 * oerjan actually knows what il y a means, being among the few things not forgotten from his school french 17:22:28 is y = here? that part of school french failed to stick, apparently 17:22:41 il and a I can recognize as he and have 17:23:42 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 17:24:05 `localtime lifthrasiir 17:24:06 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: localtime: not found 17:24:11 @localtime lifthrasiir 17:24:13 Local time for lifthrasiir is Wed Jan 1 02:24:12 2014 17:26:10 oerjan: «y» is the accusative of «ici». 17:26:38 I see 17:27:19 it has also a bunch of derivative meanings all related to “here”, “now”, “oneself”. 17:27:29 not quite sure why that word would have cases though 17:27:54 along with pronouns, those are the last vestigial remnants of cases in French. 17:29:26 e.g. german where cases are much alive, doesn't have cases for 'hier' afaik 17:35:09 @tell Koen_ it's been a long time since I disturbed you with Québécois. 17:35:09 Consider it noted. 17:39:41 what color should i paint my fingernails for the new year? 17:39:53 hot pink 17:40:07 mandelbrot pattern 17:40:13 julia set. 17:40:23 douglass_: what colour should kmc be? 17:40:45 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:40:54 kmc: I say, Cantor Dust. 17:40:54 douglass_ seems blissfully idle 17:41:14 fungot: what colour should i paint my fingernails for the new year? 17:41:15 kmc: it certainly shouldn't take that long. :p the cost is only 2.5e (!) directfb/ core/ pul/ collection.plof this has a cutoff constant in it somewhere. it a house consisting from 6 houses 17:41:29 i'm gonna keep asking fungot until i get an answer 17:41:29 kmc: probably the only one he used. right? right? ( fnord! 17:41:50 -!- Zuu has joined. 17:42:06 kmc: fungot probably is going to recommend some Deep Iridescent Fnord. 17:42:06 boily: 90% of my market would be windows and i develop software for all of them 17:42:31 kmc: you should paint them kind error 17:43:01 fungot: or do you have a better idea?+ 17:43:01 olsner: why do you care? nobody will make you fnord if you want, implementing conses ( including set-car!/set-cdr!) in your saliva, then the doc said " oh, i see 17:43:45 hi 17:43:56 fungot: I'm finding out that you can't mess around with saliva! 17:43:56 kmc: you actually wrote these, and i refuse to take anything on faith, riastradh. from now on. 17:43:57 umm, I don't know 17:43:59 fungot: no. I don't want to make fnord in my saliva, and yes I care. 17:43:59 boily: it's always nice to eat or something 17:44:10 Cantor Dust isn't a color 17:44:30 fungot: I'm hungry. 17:44:30 boily: what is ihope? this x thing, so you can't go any further with clisms. 17:48:35 The structural color of the fruit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollia_condensata 17:49:44 I refuse to believe a fruit made of tinfoil and electric blue sparkly plastic resin exists in nature. 17:49:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 17:50:26 where did you think tinfoil came from? 17:50:52 it's true, everyone knows tinfoil doesn't come from tin 17:51:03 olsner: from tinfoil mines in the Great North. 17:51:26 tin- is just thin without the h 17:53:28 boily: it's just one of the many proofs that we are living in a simulation hth 17:54:10 * boily dons his maple-tinfoil hat 17:55:34 douglass_: _real_ tinfoil comes from tin. it's also the only kind that protects against mind control rays, which explains why you cannot get it any more. hth..hth 17:55:38 oops 17:55:47 * oerjan misunderstands the script 17:56:40 perhaps it will work better if i include some spaces, twh. 17:57:03 which script? 17:57:19 olsner: Oerjan's Shackles. 17:57:25 the script that prevents me from saying 17:58:01 I see, htwh 17:58:14 yw 17:59:27 the Kleen Star of All Help Combinations 17:59:58 s/n\b/ne/ 18:00:34 `run echo 'test' | sed -e 'st\ttTt' 18:00:36 Test 18:01:54 very sane command. 18:02:58 ☺ 18:03:27 douglass_: wow those are pretty 18:11:47 happy australian mailman list reminder day! 18:22:58 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 18:29:41 fungot: have you made any new year resolutions? 18:29:41 FireFly: never mind. found it. i quite like that, heh? 18:30:07 FireFly: have you? 18:30:15 nope 18:30:19 me neither 18:30:21 maybe I should? 18:30:39 well, you're not gonna keep it anyway, are you? 18:30:45 apparently fungot found their resolution 18:30:45 FireFly: syntax-case enables the impossible. merely that it is 18:31:01 Probably not. 18:31:06 as the old joke go, my new year resolution is going to be 1920 × 1080. 18:31:21 Seems a bit low for 2014 18:31:26 mine might be 3800x1800, now that there are laptops with that resolution 18:31:30 (other than that, get back to learning Japanese. but I won't say it's a resolution, as that would needlessly jinx it.) 18:31:34 possibly ultra-hd, or just full-hd 18:32:59 huh. I can go as low as 640 × 480 on this machine. 18:33:15 actually full-hd would be an upgrade for this laptop ... the current resolution is almost ridiculously low 18:33:35 the 5" phone has higher resolution than the 12.5" laptop :( 18:35:10 解像度は変更できません (;_;) 18:39:09 well, great, it's time to get rid of home-grown hgweb server due to frequent server overload. 18:39:40 monotone: どのデバイスは解像度が変更できませんか？ 18:42:05 boily: ただのつまらない冗談です。すみません 18:43:28 monotone: しょうがないなぁ… 18:45:25 as the old saying goes, one time a train hit a zebra so hard that a person came out 18:45:30 monotone: それでも、お元気ですか？あなたに生きている場所に寒いですか？ 18:45:56 kmc: humans are a crossbreed between zebras and trains? 18:46:16 believe so 18:46:35 regarding resolutions: when will we see the first 1080p smart watch? 18:46:38 that'd explain a lot of things... 18:46:51 ~metar LOII 18:46:52 --- Station not found! 18:46:54 ~metar LLII 18:46:55 --- Station not found! 18:46:58 (I honestly don't see the point of display resolutions above 150dpi or so) 18:46:59 ah bordel. 18:47:25 ~metar LOWI 18:47:26 LOWI 311820Z 25003KT CAVOK M04/M07 Q1019 R08/19//70 NOSIG 18:48:15 boily: まあ　あったかいでもないですけど 18:48:22 chilly. 18:49:29 ~metar EDBM 18:49:30 --- Station not found! 18:50:11 boring. 18:50:35 ~metar EDDP 18:50:36 EDDP 311820Z 15008KT CAVOK 01/M00 Q1017 NOSIG 18:50:37 ~metar KORF 18:50:38 KORF 311751Z 26007G14KT 230V290 10SM CLR 09/M02 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP217 T00891017 10094 20033 58016 18:50:48 monotone: ここは極低温度だよ 18:50:57 ~metar CYUL 18:50:57 CYUL 311800Z 04006KT 8SM -SN OVC033 M16/M19 A3006 RMK SC8 SLP181 18:51:28 ~metar CYQB 18:51:29 CYQB 311800Z 24007KT 3SM -SN OVC028 M19/M24 A3008 RMK SN5SC3 SLP196 18:51:37 yé... minus nineteen... 18:51:49 hardly cryogenic 18:52:02 ~metar HKJK 18:52:03 HKJK 311700Z 04010KT 9999 BKN023 22/14 Q1019 NOSIG 18:52:19 here it's like +3 or something, it's silly 18:52:37 olsner: my feet beg to differ. 18:53:25 if they're still begging they haven't been cryogenerated yet 18:53:48 cryogeneration hasn't begun yet. I still have two of them. 18:54:00 and 10 toes? 18:54:30 try going inside, it may be warmer 18:54:50 int-e: the regular SI toe configuration, I still have it. 18:54:59 olsner: I am inside. I'm stupidly barefoot. 18:55:06 boily: 厚い靴下をはいた方がいいと思います (*‿*) 18:55:09 that's stupid boily 18:56:36 I was going to suggest making use of that great invention called boots ... but now it's redundant. 18:57:53 monotone has the comfiest solution. 18:58:41 does it involve socks? or a warm bath? 18:58:50 monotone: やれやれ 18:58:52 hmm. "hot bath" sounds better. 19:03:43 monotone: 靴下をはいている　僕の足はいま暖かいです　(^ε^) 19:04:44 boily: よかったですね 19:05:16 monotone: as the local proverb goes, «よかった en maudit». 19:14:44 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 19:15:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:18:58 olsner: silly indeed 19:20:59 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:21:23 -!- Jafet has joined. 19:23:01 spaceteam! 19:23:54 boily: what languages do you know????????? 19:24:33 they're just writing french in hanzi 19:24:40 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:24:44 oh lame 19:25:02 Bike: shun! 19:25:20 boily: spaceteam! 19:25:29 quintopia: spaceteam? 19:25:52 spaceteam!? 19:26:01 Bike: and kana 19:26:09 boily: you should play it. with your friends. asap. 19:26:24 quintopia: does it run on Linux and/or the Ouya? 19:26:37 quintopia: or, better, is it made of cardboard and acrylic? 19:26:41 -!- FreeFull_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:26:53 boily: android or ios 19:27:04 quintopia: I accept. 19:27:05 the iphone version is slightly more stable 19:27:11 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 19:27:19 pfshaw. stability is for wimps. 19:28:08 oh, spaceteam. I didn't know it was called so. 19:29:00 kana is just wannabe hanzi. 19:29:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:29:38 boily: you have played or seen played? 19:31:23 * olsner gr och lagar lite mat 19:31:26 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:32:06 * boily は楓棒でBikeに当たる　＊ボン＊！ 19:32:15 quintopia: seen. 19:44:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:17:16 apparently, by default, OpenERP stores user passwords without any encryption whatsoever. 20:17:31 * boily has nausea 20:18:33 boily: erp. 20:18:59 oerjan: indeed. 20:20:49 aw poor boily 20:20:55 * quintopia gives boily a moonshine 20:21:06 we don't need to worry about hyperintelligent ais. our computer systems are so broken it only takes a normal ai to take them over. 20:22:37 hyperintelligent ais523? 20:22:45 wait now. maybe the government is keeping our computers broken _on purpose_ just so we'll have an early warning about hostile ais before they become hyperintelligent. 20:23:07 it all makes sense now! 20:23:29 `? ais523 20:23:31 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 20:23:50 alien, not ai. hth. 20:25:54 meanwhile, march 3 is when the main girl genius story line will resume. coincidence? also checking this made me discover the fill-in story updated on a tuesday! 20:27:48 * boily gulps quintopia's 'shine 20:28:02 oerjan: girl genius is still ongoing? 20:28:05 SHINE SHINE LIKE A STAR 20:28:31 boily: how do you feel? 20:28:52 quintopia: shined. 20:29:05 boily: um you mean in general, or over the just started hiatus? 20:29:18 oerjan: the general allure of it all. 20:29:51 boily: most definitely. you don't just end a story that wins hugos in 3 consecutive years... 20:30:42 i don't expect it to end until we get an explanation for the time travel segments seen previously, and there isn't currently any sign of that happening yet... 20:31:59 happy new year 20:32:07 to everyone who lives >3+ GMT 20:32:10 also the whole gil/father mixup needs to be resolved 20:32:23 oerjan: time travel??? I think I'll have to get back on track eventually... 20:32:37 @localtime mroman 20:32:38 Local time for mroman is Tue Dec 31 21:32:37 2013 20:32:41 int-e: not to mention agatha/mother... 20:33:05 boily: those were a _long_ time ago, mind you. 20:33:08 @localtime boily 20:33:09 Local time for boily is Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:33:08 -0500 20:33:27 oerjan: I dropped it a long time ago too. 20:33:32 back when they had the first events on board castle wulfenbach 20:34:34 time travel? the time freeze was bad enough, hmm. maybe I have to reread the thing from the beginning. 20:35:56 int-e: incidentally, the time travel segment implies that certain characters who are currently in trouble should get out of it. 20:36:36 yay. "You have been selected as a winner for using Google services." 20:36:52 EVERYONE WINS! 20:36:56 (except Taneb) 20:37:06 int-e: by time travel, i mean the apparitions dupree told the baron about. 20:37:52 and iirc the baron correctly guessed that time travel was involved 20:38:13 so ... re-reading it is. 20:38:20 heh 20:39:01 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 20:39:07 by the way, where is Taneb? 20:39:42 Here 20:40:49 Tanelle! 20:41:33 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:42:08 https://dpaste.de/uyLZ/raw Whyy 20:42:10 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 20:42:59 FreeFull: you are under attack hth 20:43:41 bohily 20:43:50 FreeFull: oooooooooooooooh :D 20:44:21 I want to know who is doing this and why 20:45:40 funny. one of those is proxyscan.freenode.net 20:45:52 ATTACK 20:45:55 https://dpaste.de/p7bb/raw Part two, same IPs 20:46:15 Maybe you have got yourself a "misconfigured UPS guy" as well. 20:47:47 proxyscan.siglost.com, pridelands.org, v22010127734464199.yourvserver.net, gilman.megworld.co.uk, proxyscan.freenode.net and hitchcock.freenode.net, apparently. 20:48:04 15.2 hours remaining before IOCCC 2013 entries cannot be released in 2013 (anywhere on earth). 20:48:12 Oh, I don't think those are actual attacks then 20:51:13 I should have thought to try reverse dns 20:51:31 I wonder why my router has been disconnecting from the net though. Probably ISP stupidity 20:51:40 right, just port scans. "SPI attack" does not even make sense, I think. (gooduckhoo suggest "Stateful Packet Inspection") 20:52:08 Perhaps it's supposed to vaguely translate to "attack detected by SPI". 20:52:20 As in, unexpected incoming connections. 20:52:59 Though in that case it'd be slightly unclear what "TCP attack" means, then. 20:54:06 "See all those packets I've been dropping to keep you safe?" 20:54:43 Aw, my own "misconfigured UPS guy" has stopped. (Or at least is not active right now.) 20:54:46 The Internet is a dangerous place. 20:56:01 TCP attack could be something like unexpected SYNs 21:01:07 But that's what I was assuming "SPI attack" to be. Since it's vaguely related to connection state. 21:01:15 SNEAK attack (bitch) 21:01:40 "HTH attack" is what happens on #esoteric often. 21:02:31 Followed by a TDNH defense. 21:04:00 8 8888 8 8888888 8888888888 8 8888 8 .8. 8888888 8888888888 8888888 8888888888 .8. ,o888888o. 8 8888 ,88' 21:04:02 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 .888. 8 8888 8 8888 .888. 8888 `88. 8 8888 ,88' 21:04:04 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 :88888. 8 8888 8 8888 :88888. ,8 8888 `8. 8 8888 ,88' 21:04:06 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 . `88888. 8 8888 8 8888 . `88888. 88 8888 8 8888 ,88' 21:04:08 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 .8. `88888. 8 8888 8 8888 .8. `88888. 88 8888 8 8888 ,88' 21:04:10 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 .8`8. `88888. 8 8888 8 8888 .8`8. `88888. 88 8888 8 8888 88' 21:04:12 8 8888888888888 8 8888 8 8888888888888 .8' `8. `88888. 8 8888 8 8888 .8' `8. `88888. 88 8888 8 888888< 21:04:15 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 .8' `8. `88888. 8 8888 8 8888 .8' `8. `88888.`8 8888 .8' 8 8888 `Y8. 21:04:16 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 .888888888. `88888. 8 8888 8 8888 .888888888. `88888. 8888 ,88' 8 8888 `Y8. 21:04:18 8 8888 8 8 8888 8 8888 8 .8' `8. `88888. 8 8888 8 8888.8' `8. `88888. `8888888P' 8 8888 `Y8. 21:04:39 boily: c.c 21:04:40 c.c.c 21:04:40 c.c 21:04:49 c.c 21:04:51 c.c 21:04:52 c.c.c 21:04:52 c.c 21:05:11 kmc: hi hi hi ^^ 21:05:12 ▌▌▜▘▌▌ ▄ ▟▖▟▖▄ ▗▖▌ 21:05:12 ▛▌▐ ▛▌ ▄▌▐ ▐ ▄▌▌ ▙▘ 21:05:12 ▘▘▝ ▘▘ ▀▘ ▘ ▘▀▘▝▘▘▘ 21:05:17 i am not sure i approve of ASCII art that doesn't show correctly even when i make putty full screen. 21:05:18 c.c 21:05:42 * kmc is willing to tolerate a bit of ASCII art spam in the Spirit of New Year's, but only a bit 21:05:43 myndzi is not working, in spite of having much shorter nickname than mine 21:06:24 probably it requires the whole block to be to the right of your nick 21:06:34 hence the trigger string is " c.c" 21:06:34 c.c.c 21:06:34 c.c 21:06:36 ka-bam 21:06:42 It sounds like one bit would not be enough for a that much ASCII art. 21:06:55 lifthrasiir: myndzi is a very strange bot. 21:07:11 If it just so happens thatc.cit works also inside words, it can't be " c.c" literally. 21:07:24 Hm, I guess tdnw. 21:08:08 ow. sil. tdnrh. 21:08:50 hth, hand, stfu 21:09:17 kmc: nu. 21:09:18 i am not sure that's a gc.cood test 21:09:21 Talk to the HAND, 'cuz the HTH ain't listening. 21:09:33 How about if it's-|c.c|-like some non-word characters. 21:09:33 c.c.c 21:09:34 c.c 21:09:42 \bc.c\b 21:10:02 or you know \bc\.c\b but that looks less itself like a face 21:10:06 is that a multi-line multi-ocular O? 21:10:09 (Does the mIRC even do \b?) 21:10:14 from now on when people tell me to stfu i will think of http://fluxlab.io/2013/12/06/stfu/ 21:10:23 boily: it's a multi-ocular c.c 21:10:24 c.c.c 21:10:25 c.c 21:10:52 there are some weird mutants roaming in this chännel... 21:11:29 |c.c| 21:11:30 c.c.c 21:11:30 c.c 21:12:09 ｜c.c｜ 21:12:10 c.c.c 21:12:10 c.c 21:12:20 hah! mine triggered alignedly! 21:13:42 boily: high-powered mutants never intended for mass production 21:17:17 oh \o/ 21:17:18 | 21:17:18 /| 21:17:51 |c.c|c.c|c.c| 21:18:00 c.c c.c c.c 21:18:01 c.c.c c.c.c c.c.c 21:18:01 c.c c.c c.c 21:18:10 ｜ c.c c.c c.c 21:18:10 c.c.c c.c.c c.c.c 21:18:10 c.c c.c c.c 21:20:43 the bar fucks it up on my end 21:22:24 evil double width unicode character 21:26:30 異端！ 21:30:22 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:32:41 nisstyre: nisstyrello. how are you by this End of Year? 21:39:12 not bad 21:39:24 I got "Compiling with Continuations" in the mail today 21:40:39 now you're thinking with portals 21:41:26 kmc: I was just playing Portal 2 actually 21:43:40 good game. 21:46:57 c.c 21:47:04 disappearing for the night. 21:47:09 Bonne Année à tous! 21:47:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: YEARLY CHICKEN!). 21:47:17 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:47:18 au revoir! 22:01:34 Ooo, the timezone of Finland just a 2014 is. 22:01:41 (It is 2014, right?) 22:02:17 fizzie, yes 22:02:21 You are now in the future 22:02:51 It smells pretty much like the past did. 22:08:30 51.5 minutes to go here, hmm 22:12:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:16:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:21:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:25:16 ~metar LOWI 22:25:42 metagone 22:26:45 -4.3 ... ok. see you next year. 22:30:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:01:38 ^celebrate 23:01:38 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 23:01:38 ¦ c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 23:01:39 ´¸¨ c.c /| /| | | /´\ c.c /| | /| |/< c.c |\ 23:01:39 (_|¯'¯|_) /´\ 23:01:39 (_| |_) 23:07:32 Happy new year! 23:09:17 @localtime FireFly 23:09:29 Local time for FireFly is Wed, 01 Jan 2014 00:11:51 +0100 23:09:44 Happy new year to you too 23:10:02 \o/ 23:10:02 | 23:10:03 >\ 23:10:35 Happy new year! 23:15:21 fuck all of you from the future 23:18:10 I can't possibly be from the future 23:18:22 How can I be from the future, if I'm dead in the future? 23:19:21 `? future 23:19:23 future? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:19:59 `run echo "We know nothing about the future." >wisdom/future 23:20:03 No output. 23:20:53 `? an allosaurus 23:20:54 an allosaurus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:21:23 hm wait it doesn't work that direction. 23:33:36 `? allosaurus 23:33:38 allosaurus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:33:47 `? Vorpal 23:33:49 Vorpal is really boring. Seriously, you have no idea. 23:34:28 `? lystrosaur 23:34:30 The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. 23:35:50 Happy new year, too! \o/ \o/ c.c \o_ 23:35:50 | | c.c.c | 23:35:50 |\ /< c.c |\ 23:36:22 happy new year's eve losers 23:39:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:48:03 ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:48:09 mroman, yeah because I almost never talk 23:48:14 These days that is 23:56:12 oh my, ocean in a bottle ... how could I forget? 23:56:35 DON'T DROP IT 23:58:00 too late. 23:59:36 r.i.p. maldives