< 1389745128 78930 :kfriede!63742849@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.116.40.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389745266 366382 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1389745386 631936 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389745390 9450 :kfriede!63742849@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.116.40.73 QUIT :Client Quit < 1389745510 126498 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might start using my tumblr again < 1389745721 759819 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1389746221 324721 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1389746360 239857 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just posted < 1389746375 225861 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sgeo.tumblr.com/post/73356360201/the-limit-of-extensible-programming-languages-culture < 1389746805 142452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: s/its/it's/, s/instant/instance/ < 1389746810 854300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1389747012 252583 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erp, thanks < 1389747022 969562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1389747030 734704 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389747191 887009 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1389747715 380755 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another criticism of Kernel: Applicatives that return operatives do not seem likely to stand out visually < 1389751194 459539 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389751301 980573 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389751758 813952 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'A pet project of the wiki is the "secularized language" page (a massive example of Personal Dictionary). One of the "secularized words" is "secular." A good citizen should substitute "pagan" every time.' < 1389751960 391649 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1389751984 259791 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk JOIN :#esoteric < 1389752663 70830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1389752714 488776 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1389753052 913783 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what time did i get disconnected < 1389753112 468796 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1959 < 1389753129 398556 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-01-14#195925 < 1389753187 269656 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that's a long time to be down < 1389754215 207520 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1389756025 927333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph i got another set of personally targeted discount coupons from the chain i shop at, and it was strangely annoyingly timed. < 1389756057 500187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it has discounts for several products i only buy rarely, and _did_ buy today or yesterday. < 1389756103 959483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess none of the products really spoil, though... < 1389756148 995737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(coupons have to be used within 2-3 weeks) < 1389756417 464157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like if they've estimated when i needed to buy more, and got it just a couple days too late :P < 1389756656 200215 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389756865 788835 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389756950 368460 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389757050 108323 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think kmc is severely influencing my thought patterns. I blame kmc for making me think of a language's culture as being as or more significant than what the language can do < 1389757097 496201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shall have to ban him for this, then. < 1389757136 141555 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, too bad he already left < 1389757158 347534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen kmc < 1389757168 719139 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2014-01-14 02:16:30: now i want a knitting machine, knitting machines are the new 3D printers < 1389757197 183654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shall assuming he just had a horrible knitting machine accident. < 1389757201 523338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*assume < 1389757201 934380 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, starting to think Kernel Lisp may be fatally flawed < 1389757208 134578 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to think a bit more about it though < 1389757243 887494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo for influencing him to think all languages are fatally flawed -----### < 1389757257 196627 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although really, what else would you expect from a language that thinks the identity function is the Devil? < 1389757263 168826 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :flaws are the spice of life. < 1389757267 458448 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what? < 1389757283 287681 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm being a bit silly, but (unwrap id) == $quote < 1389757292 281439 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that is silly < 1389757370 847638 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write some code down to get my thoughts in order < 1389757511 124896 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was going to think about languages i'd think about how it's interesting that common lisp and kernel have totally opposed design philosophies but are reasonably similar, but then i'd be thinking about nerd shit < 1389757540 96362 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in #esoteric, home of nerd shit < 1389757559 126453 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1389757567 118348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hereby banning nerd shit < 1389757573 997218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :next persno to say nerd shit gets banned. you think I'm joking < 1389757582 321698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um by that I mean nerd shit, not "nerd shit" < 1389757587 216459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you and goodnight < 1389757588 806679 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was a channel for magic. Sorry. Have a good day < 1389757589 886346 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PART :#esoteric < 1389757642 669944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would leave, it's just... I'd have to reorganise all my irssi windows. < 1389757734 299867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I would leave, it's just... I'd have to reorganise all my irssi windows. < 1389757738 966783 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1160) I would leave, it's just... I'd have to reorganise all my irssi windows. < 1389757910 440242 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pokemon trading confuses me right now. < 1389757916 156247 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I traded a Rattata for a Scizor. < 1389758103 935528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying thing: when you google for the definition of a phrase, the first page is full of dictionary links, and not a _single_ one of them contains the actual definition in the quoted text. < 1389758182 387719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn bugle blast < 1389758185 890590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "bugle" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1389758186 75854 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bugle < 1389758187 512676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: a brass instrument without valves; used for military calls < 1389758189 517113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : and fanfares < 1389758191 480138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: any of various low-growing annual or perennial evergreen < 1389758193 506035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[5 @more lines] < 1389758195 515460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "blast" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1389758197 499552 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :blast < 1389758208 700051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1389758285 602690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it might not really be a combined phrase anyway < 1389759097 626389 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1389759107 553222 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke JOIN :#esoteric < 1389759258 610697 :preflex_!~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex JOIN :#esoteric < 1389759347 316372 :preflex!~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1389759361 438840 :preflex_!~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex NICK :preflex < 1389759392 26848 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1389759449 768448 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1389759505 822612 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i just got an email from the wolfram people < 1389759521 859256 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want to show me that my work can be done better using mathematica < 1389759542 141089 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389759584 710065 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i send them a short description of what i'm doing, the tools i'm using, and any relevant code, their experts will check if it can be done in an easier and more cost-effective way using their tools < 1389759623 411006 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1389759661 260451 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389759710 795306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY! < 1389759731 735707 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i send them python code with decision properties for dynamical properties of cellular automata, maybe they'll add that stuff to mathematica? < 1389759736 997210 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be pretty neat < 1389759791 656145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think mathematica would be good for cellular automata < 1389759793 90542 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about the wolfram group < 1389759809 845132 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not really < 1389759820 69323 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't check if a CA is surjective or injective, for example < 1389759835 791279 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like the most common operation < 1389759844 747723 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need < 1389759855 382898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well istr that's undecidable for >= 2d < 1389759868 447295 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, my supervisor proved that < 1389759891 849555 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, so about the wolfram group, they have this journal called journal of cellular automata < 1389759912 738436 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was started, i don't know, couple of decades ago < 1389759961 663287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1389759984 481201 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will continue soon :D < 1389760032 744101 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway, it used to be this okay journal < 1389760037 829681 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but last year < 1389760101 521443 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate proofs that seem like they're fake because they don't cover enough cases < 1389760102 977676 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are getting pretty wtf < 1389760105 667041 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oldcitypublishing.com/JCA/JCAcontents/JCAv8n3-4contents.html < 1389760116 516570 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm < 1389760124 677497 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4th entry < 1389760154 912776 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is about what the title says < 1389760192 389502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's proved that xor solves parity if the tape is periodic with period 2^n < 1389760241 537751 :doesthiswork!~Adium@c-67-185-185-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understand that right it sounds trivial < 1389760270 727431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 60 "" < 1389760272 72451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "111100" < 1389760274 457007 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the proof is as follows: if you start with a single 1, by well known properties of binary coefficients, after 2^n steps you get two 1s, 2^n apart. by linearity, if you have period 2^n, this eliminates the first one. < 1389760296 619407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that only uses 2 cells < 1389760303 197443 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1389760357 157779 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway it's ridiculous that a journal would publish that < 1389760412 466566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1389760489 669605 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the journal of cellular automata published something that is trivial to everyone who knows the basics of cellular automata, with a long obscure proof < 1389760525 902834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 2^n-1 steps you get a row of 2^n 1's, iirc < 1389760528 922249 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afaik, the author is a student of the editor, but that could be just a rumor.) < 1389760534 713536 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :er right < 1389760542 102122 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall the details, just that it's trivial < 1389760543 138964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'd think is more relevant for computing parity < 1389760545 463121 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1389760557 581152 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two 1s made little sense < 1389760575 146523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly i should have published this years ago when i thought of the same thing :P < 1389760610 327524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even close to publishable < 1389760619 352070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadijfij < 1389760619 537136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i _am_ joking < 1389760621 300345 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1389760632 85184 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this just makes me so sad < 1389760663 930947 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean people from our community have articles in there < 1389760726 487287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, it'll balance out by making phantom_hoover happy hth < 1389760750 928101 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the thing that ais523 and I proved considered trivial to everyone who knows the basics of ... is it CA or something else? < 1389760756 320323 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? < 1389760769 474716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1389760779 707950 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that any bounded CA... I kind of forget < 1389760788 61520 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bounded CA = ? < 1389760797 977814 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, "periodic boundary condition"? < 1389760809 491807 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoL or similar, on a torus or with an edge < 1389760834 758364 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the theory works best on a torus < 1389760847 243081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing about having a garden of eden? < 1389760855 739572 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1389760859 5416 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? < 1389760865 627350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc that was probably a bit too simple to be publishable < 1389760883 552648 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389760892 499852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't quite recall the prerequisites < 1389760904 901682 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one trivial thing to anyone who knows the basics of set theory is that invertible = surjective = bijective, in this case < 1389760914 870814 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"01:12:23: basically, because of the hole you know that its immediate descendant has at least two possible parents" < 1389760941 457673 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:12:59: If the pattern results in a loop, then only one of those patterns is in the loop (I'm a bit shaky on that part) < 1389760941 744843 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the only thing that garden of eden suggested to me < 1389760953 215652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you know, not only must it be trivial, but wolfram himself must have seen it when calculating all those elementary automaton pictures. < 1389760963 655256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the thing in the journal) < 1389761000 816403 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1389761110 619253 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(back in the 80's or so) < 1389761171 507398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well garden of eden exists ~ not surjective < 1389761184 249941 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think he would turn in his grave, or car or whatever, if he saw that one (i doubt he's very much involved in it) < 1389761207 398251 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but if Sgeo and ais523 had proved that, i would be very surprised < 1389761212 231036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now i remember, "every pattern either is periodic or has a garden of eden ancestor" < 1389761216 878859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that it < 1389761264 485731 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's a good observation, and it's the starting point of many a proof < 1389761272 831038 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds familiar, but you need a hole < 1389761280 953106 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a hole? < 1389761296 838807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you need some finiteness condition < 1389761298 817546 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean good observation about functions on sets, not really about CA < 1389761301 606664 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, wrong terminology, but a place where a cell can be either alive or dead without affecting the next generation < 1389761302 161738 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*finite sets < 1389761351 770979 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what you need that for, maybe i'm misunderstanding the result < 1389761365 967175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i think maybe we avoided the finiteness < 1389761400 873999 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure the statement involved being bounded, either on a torus or with edges < 1389761401 774514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using "lightspeed" and comparing size of boundary to the whole set < 1389761431 326599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm probably mixing together several statements < 1389761455 955614 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, on the face of it, it should in particular be true for all surjective CA that all patterns are periodic < 1389761465 268386 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that sounds weird < 1389761495 839937 :^v!~NotPing@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389761497 768753 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1389761498 543417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think periodic may not have been part of the statement < 1389761513 788276 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :surjective CA are recurrent < 1389761545 953628 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any pattern of size n, after 2^n or so steps you will have found that same pattern in the same position < 1389761552 249862 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by basic measure theory) < 1389761579 220166 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that's the only way i know for proving it) < 1389761627 131345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the theorem was on a bounded thing anyway < 1389761657 338570 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: um, that's blatantly untrue? CA: Every cell dies < 1389761675 187301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not surjective < 1389761679 829615 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1389761707 631773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, a configuration is either in the limit set (and the CA is surjective on the limit set, and the result applies here too so it is recurrent) and thus has itself as an "ancestor", or it's not in the limit set, and for some n, every nth preimage is a garden of eden < 1389761725 821688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa surjectivity < 1389761743 571813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you accept the axiom of choice then (f .) is injective iff (. f) is surjective, and vice versa?? < 1389761759 825731 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what category? < 1389761774 709140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first one, you don't need AoC afaik < 1389761781 964268 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and err < 1389761801 943648 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389761815 39784 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the second one neither? < 1389761821 785724 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in Set < 1389761825 606937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Too much math < 1389761836 419519 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389761836 978048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vice versa" meaning (. f) is injective iff (f .) is surjective < 1389761837 330740 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it more the split epis and split monos that need AoC < 1389761848 944358 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what category? < 1389761851 952165 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all? < 1389761852 779999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set < 1389761859 128863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :with choice < 1389761879 82116 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Set, (. f) is injective if and only if f is injective, no? < 1389761889 380067 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1389761891 10400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f .) is injective iff f is injective < 1389761896 609670 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1389761898 838461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. f) is injective iff f is surjective < 1389761921 323132 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so you are asking if injective = surjective, in Set, if we assume AoC? < 1389761925 845740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1389761937 170607 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1389761944 690607 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now i see where the trouble is. < 1389761955 331903 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think some secs < 1389762119 391589 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1389762140 680133 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, it seems (. f) is surjective implies that f is injective without choice, and <= also without choice < 1389762152 563944 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm blerping somehow < 1389762193 198456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you don't need choice for that one. < 1389762226 182657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need it for (f .) is surjective iff (. f) is injective < 1389762239 941563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. (f .) is surjective iff f is surjective < 1389762262 339277 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed < 1389762281 450 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does sound choicy for that < 1389762282 628676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in particular for the ← direction. < 1389762283 640755 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-for that < 1389762287 670880 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1389762403 813924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f .) is surjective means that f has a right inverse < 1389762495 825938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1389762510 342462 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i mean by split epi < 1389762516 70987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1389762617 770953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure where the name "split" came from < 1389762622 356363 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea < 1389762656 639554 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are trying to publish a decision procedure for split epicness of CA :P (it's not the only result in the paper, but anyway) < 1389763014 51972 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let's say, for whether they are split epi onto their image, since it's actually trivial if you take the whole configuration space as both domain and codomain) < 1389767300 516091 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389767397 171970 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389767634 822860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan That's just it, the Belgian ones are supposed to be the bee's knees, and the owl's whatever-body-parts, &c. < 1389767635 45749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1389767657 965147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Perhaps we were just eating them wrong. < 1389767658 150038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1389767695 876212 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1389767824 274360 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk JOIN :#esoteric < 1389767891 392280 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o...k.... the person who recruited me is now following me on Twitter < 1389768118 643407 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps here? < 1389768149 585273 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :recruiter: Sgeo sucks at playing the piano! < 1389768158 207727 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i took a wild guess at your professoin < 1389768160 742930 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*profession < 1389768475 252054 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389768700 644373 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1389768757 189346 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0 < 1389770608 303041 :stuntaneous_f!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4700:a000:10:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1389770610 398452 :stuntaneous_f!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4700:a000:10:: QUIT :Excess Flood < 1389770631 312020 :stuntaneous_f!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4700:a000:10:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1389770633 659893 :stuntaneous_f!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4700:a000:10:: QUIT :Excess Flood < 1389770853 374351 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4700:a000:10:: QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1389770916 77024 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1389771003 746164 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk JOIN :#esoteric < 1389771279 583416 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1389771295 411575 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1389772707 93823 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389772805 342121 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389775601 847054 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389775800 714945 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1389778457 738383 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1389778786 964524 :doesthiswork!~Adium@c-67-185-185-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1389779890 4603 :Yonkie_!~Yonkie@ip.82.144.199.214.stat.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389779896 905356 :Yonkie!~Yonkie@ip.82.144.199.214.stat.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1389781535 500369 :mekeor!~user@a0483.ipv6.tum.vpn.lrz.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1389781708 669782 :atrapado!~dro@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1389782013 318399 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1389782603 366730 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1389782706 899506 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389783053 857200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1389783913 836836 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389786354 177261 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1389786738 754290 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1389787355 933425 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1389788727 85522 :atriq!90208049@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.32.128.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389789933 965177 :atriq!90208049@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.32.128.73 QUIT : < 1389790317 829625 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1389790931 738306 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.114.168.184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1389791396 933374 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389791397 253811 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389791550 389432 :mekeor!~user@a0483.ipv6.tum.vpn.lrz.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389791725 12646 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389792570 839650 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1389792702 855705 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good clear morning! < 1389792849 270969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good /clear afternoon, for all your "I can't stand to look at this channel" needs. < 1389793191 225931 :Slereah_!~jackal@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1389793202 422719 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389793270 63698 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I find /part more effective. < 1389793720 804484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, but then you don't see if it gets better. < 1389795026 148568 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you need both, /part only erases the future. < 1389795352 264333 :mekeor!~user@2001:4ca0:2fff:3::6d JOIN :#esoteric < 1389795972 741303 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1389797125 392593 :mekeor!~user@2001:4ca0:2fff:3::6d QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389797126 85755 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1389797286 348983 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1389797372 448003 :mekeor!~user@2001:4ca0:2fff:3::6d JOIN :#esoteric < 1389797532 743401 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be an /obliterate command that erases the Universe. < 1389797617 573057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's a well-known fact that this channel is mostly about self-balancing unicycles: http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/11/onewheel-self-balancing-skateboard-test-drive-video/ < 1389797674 740726 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1389798625 303327 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. doerksen < 1389798947 422574 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-130-194.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389798980 907170 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-130-194.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389799087 289948 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-130-194.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389799263 891462 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-130-194.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1389799350 319856 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-130-194.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389799778 191406 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: many people seem to be satisfied with /suicide < 1389799807 698649 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :.oO( /wrists ) < 1389799875 81327 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauke: horrible, horrible pun. you should be ashamed! < 1389800446 291965 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should beware of the \ from horrible puns. < 1389800849 65852 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode \ < 1389800850 813556 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] < 1389800919 373032 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1389801394 674536 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode is humourless. you can't joke with unicode. unicode is the Law that Binds the Universe together. < 1389802429 174835 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ᐴ < 1389802430 850968 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1434 CANADIAN SYLLABICS POO] < 1389802456 283209 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 💩 < 1389802458 344577 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+D83D DUNNO] [U+DCA9 DUNNO] < 1389802483 424941 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems HackEgo's unidecode doesn't handle characters outside the BMP < 1389802518 893385 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a well known fact, due to the python2ness of the script. < 1389802588 893598 :augur!~augur@74.174.236.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389802643 715565 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's possible in javascript, it should be possible in python2 too < 1389802734 698458 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauke: it should, but it won't. python 2.7 is linked against unicode data 5.2.0, and 3.3 against 6.1.0. < 1389802753 120687 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript isn't "linked" against anything < 1389802867 358545 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it's defined if Javascript uses UCS-2 or UTF-16 < 1389802925 293391 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what that even means < 1389802982 274264 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, UCS-2 won't handle anything outside the BMP either < 1389803063 297189 :Man!~Freeme@46.21.152.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389803082 328931 :Man!~Freeme@46.21.152.251 NICK :Dick_in_diplomat < 1389803103 563320 :Dick_in_diplomat!~Freeme@46.21.152.251 PART :#esoteric < 1389803111 78174 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refer you to http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/javascript/unicode.html?q=%F0%9F%92%A9 < 1389803364 214063 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern browsers will use UTF-16, naturally < 1389803440 724362 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A conforming implementation of this International standard shall interpret characters in conformance with the Unicode Standard, Version 3.0 or later and ISO/IEC 10646-1 with either UCS-2 or UTF-16 as the adopted encoding form, implementation level 3. If the adopted ISO/IEC 10646-1 subset is not otherwise specified, it is presumed to be the BMP subset, collection 300. If the adopted encoding form is not otherwise specified, it is presumed to be < 1389803447 12884 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UTF-16 encoding form." < 1389803460 735895 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that means that UCS-2 and UTF-16 are both valid, but UTF-16 is preferred < 1389804169 464230 :fdsakfhjdsjkfh!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389804174 419592 :fdsakfhjdsjkfh!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 NICK :Man < 1389804189 360878 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1389804362 909631 :augur_!~augur@74.174.236.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389804432 135553 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Man < 1389804435 176221 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​07Man: 08Welcome 09to 02the 06international 13hub 04for 07esoteric 08programming 09language 02design 06and 13deployment! 04For 07more 08information, 09check 02out 06our 13wiki: 04. 07(For 08the 09other 02kind 06of 13esoterica, 04try 07#esoteric 08on 09irc.dal.net.) < 1389804449 844450 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1389804452 485210 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello buddy < 1389804463 585467 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time in this channel < 1389804545 908208 :augur!~augur@74.174.236.84 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1389804592 67040 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is... well... it is a channel. we think. it has people in it, except for the bots, and those who don't clearly fit in these categories. < 1389804601 527548 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <- cyborg < 1389804658 618512 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love esoteric things < 1389804706 283714 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar CYUL < 1389804706 772261 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 151600Z 13006KT 15SM BKN033 OVC060 01/M03 A2988 RMK SC6SC2 SLP120 < 1389804774 486339 :augur_!~augur@74.174.236.84 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389804810 312820 :augur!~augur@74.174.236.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389804861 220683 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that esoteric thing? ;) < 1389804909 243382 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like weather < 1389804910 223248 :Slereah_!~jackal@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389804988 624339 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like some serial number of a software < 1389805031 989054 :mekeor!~user@2001:4ca0:2fff:3::6d QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs) < 1389805176 47556 :augur!~augur@74.174.236.84 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389805267 437156 :Zerker!~zerker@2602:306:bd53:9ef0:3941:a825:14c3:5c24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389805802 459515 :Man!~Freeme@96.44.157.124 PART :#esoteric < 1389806047 947008 :Zerker!~zerker@2602:306:bd53:9ef0:3941:a825:14c3:5c24 QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes) < 1389806280 504589 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easiest bit is this: 01/M03 is temperatures < 1389806289 753300 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(temperature and dew point) < 1389806310 906983 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389806318 853086 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned that googling "metar" btw. You can do that, too ;-) < 1389806333 93337 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar LOWI < 1389806334 534450 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 151650Z VRB01KT 9999 FEW015 SCT023 BKN100 03/00 Q1013 R08/19//68 NOSIG < 1389806375 669996 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, three layers of clouds. < 1389807623 682489 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.109.152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389808266 608981 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389808721 958070 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar ESSA < 1389808722 523357 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESSA 151750Z 04008KT 9999 FEW021 SCT026 M07/M09 Q1018 R01L/710167 R08/710164 R01R/710180 NOSIG < 1389809110 117919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar EFHK < 1389809110 744105 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFHK 151750Z 04009KT 9999 SCT040 M12/M13 Q1020 NOSIG < 1389809416 557046 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389809524 443672 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389811114 475944 :Man!~Freeme@203.223.94.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389811159 954599 :Man!~Freeme@203.223.94.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1389811168 726496 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello again. < 1389811347 882169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1389811720 526649 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ello Man < 1389811723 169004 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manello < 1389811936 325565 :Man!~Freeme@203.223.94.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1389811983 962984 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that we properly explained it last time, but this is a channel for esoteric programming languages :) < 1389812267 32816 :Man!~Freeme@203.223.94.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is it? what is this needed for? < 1389812353 138254 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps http://esolangs.org can explain that a bit better than me. < 1389812366 311505 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man: they are needed for the need they are needed for. < 1389812423 316180 :Man!~Freeme@203.223.94.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it is a channel where people are used to esoteric things. < 1389812443 628988 :Man!~Freeme@203.223.94.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to talk I meant < 1389812615 312420 :Man!~Freeme@203.223.94.161 PART :#esoteric < 1389812675 483411 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn. and for once we had a newcomer who didn't immediately scamper off, or is a misguided hispanophone... < 1389812760 699426 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he scampered off and then came back. < 1389812783 427217 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the away she scampered again. < 1389812788 843065 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/e/en < 1389812858 48616 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :she? but they were calling themselves “Man”. < 1389812930 872153 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't imply much, though. < 1389814531 130697 :mekeor!~user@95-91-234-80-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1389814615 125847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389814635 966339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi #esoteric < 1389814644 167128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any of you have some interesting cyclic tag programs handy? < 1389814654 822565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I'm interested in one for which it's unknown whether or not it halts < 1389816279 517750 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.109.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how hard is converting turing machines to cyclic tag? < 1389816302 327547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: it's been done, that's how they were proved TC < 1389816309 907519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the turing machine → tag machine part of the construction, though < 1389816376 409896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has a tag machine that calculates the Collatz sequence < 1389816390 355545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is vaguely interesting, I guess < 1389816392 555575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bdfl9_-CQAAY3It.jpg:large < 1389816402 579737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, on-topic discussion, sorry < 1389816479 596518 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.109.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god. apparently this page lists 40-something 5-state 2-symbol turing machines whose halting is unknown, but http://skelet.ludost.net/bb/nreg.html < 1389816496 676528 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.109.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand it at all... < 1389816518 794538 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't understand what? < 1389816522 828781 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1389816525 876500 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the point that no one understands them < 1389816622 447058 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.109.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't understand the page. it lists a bunch of machines but doesn't say if they're "HNR" but gives a "HNR_count" for the whole list? maybe it's the "----" ones? < 1389816626 851061 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say i recall how cyclic tag systems simulate turing machines < 1389816678 986610 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea of the naive constructions is prolly that you have a configuration of a tm as the word, and you keep moving the first thing to the end until you see the head and there you do a bit of rewriting while moving it to the end < 1389816704 996581 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is trivial except for the fact that cyclic tag systems are sort of restricted so you have to be really careful < 1389816753 730173 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's prolly more sophisticated ways (and possibly what i said doesn't work) < 1389816849 948656 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.109.152 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i guess a (5,2) machine might be potentially very long! (as a cyclic tag program) < 1389816917 350369 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a guy talking about some construction of his < 1389816941 989773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu it was the currently "best" way to simulate turing machines with cyclic tag systems < 1389816994 615289 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example he needed it for this, since the old ways were too slow http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/11786986_13#page-1 < 1389817022 620142 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one part of his construction is to take a cyclic tag system and convert it to another kind of tag system < 1389817046 166919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some sort of tag systems to another kind anyway < 1389817062 500292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's asymptotically fast, but he converted something like a tag system that just copies bits from one end to another < 1389817069 440597 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was like 40Mb < 1389817511 306033 :DTSCode!~nchambers@2001:4870:a04e:2:88d5:a584:3915:6ca8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389817523 854184 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome DTSCode < 1389817526 545099 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13DTSCode: 04Welcome 07to 08the 09international 02hub 06for 13esoteric 04programming 07language 08design 09and 02deployment! 06For 13more 04information, 07check 08out 09our 02wiki: 06. 13(For 04the 07other 08kind 09of 02esoterica, 06try 13#esoteric 04on 07irc.dal.net.) < 1389818262 324860 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1389818397 945603 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389818924 312835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: whoa,, new stripe ctf < 1389819695 668722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM "whoa, a third shirt opportunity" < 1389819807 462979 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, this is annoying, my voice is not liking me this week < 1389820377 317383 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: loss of voice? < 1389820403 35893 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks the Prophetic Cuttlefish... “will I be able to do XLS exports from OpenERP?” < 1389820404 533490 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1389820404 780968 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Articulating" to "Articulating" < 1389820415 440448 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :go fungot yourself, you... < 1389820415 661653 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: where's the code? < 1389820436 955624 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: deeply munged across multiple undocumented, uncommented, unmaintained obscure modules. < 1389820437 140558 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i don't care about the output < 1389820451 849429 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: me neither, but the client does. < 1389820452 244728 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: at least he is a fnord it's a package and the other which gets called by the first person should just get a fair share of odd looks?) < 1389820474 392600 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot gets all the odd looks. and the even looks. < 1389820474 752272 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: incidentally, just having a first name can crash OE in interesting manners. < 1389820474 937487 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: it's made functionally thuogh if you're going for speed, either, due to a quality i have. i think it was < 1389820475 228416 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: mandatory to attain choir since i was supposed to give with it was between the pages of some net stores like verkkokauppa, but you'd have a heck of a time < 1389820503 872257 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: don't worry; you are going to have a heck of a time. < 1389820670 791543 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: the time is like heck. my brains are now devoid of nutrients, and feel like lime and coconut flavoured slush. the duck can't cover the extension. I will not sleep here tonight. Home also I cannot go. < 1389820701 274592 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A voice, sweetened and sustained, called to him from the sea.) < 1389820762 988758 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, I don't read Joyce) < 1389820764 753825 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1389820764 938839 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Parting" to "Open" < 1389820787 497129 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: the only fragments I read come from the fortunes I installed on this machine. < 1389820823 347516 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. I haven't seen any come across on my machine. But then, my fortunes are polluted with ponies. < 1389820842 958158 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: no, too much singing < 1389820860 148610 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: I have dirty limericks with ponies :D < 1389820882 466009 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I'm not interested in Greek literature < 1389820908 529344 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: I read the Odyssey. it was good. < 1389820941 521275 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that with the cyclops whose eye is put out? I was a terrible student. < 1389820941 706055 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what kind of? < 1389820988 806609 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: it was with the cyclops, with the sirens, with Charybdis and Scylla, with gods and not-quite-gods... < 1389821019 871148 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that's what I thought. < 1389821023 230935 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1389821023 584261 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Coupling" to "Small Accumulating" < 1389821105 5377 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: a variety < 1389821141 123336 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: MELODIC MYTHOLOGIC CHICKEN < 1389821142 915141 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1389822019 412822 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@192.3.160.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389822842 879094 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There’s a Finnish company literally named “SS ovens” http://www.kauppalehti.fi/yritykset/yritys/tmi+ss+uunit/15856725 < 1389822906 998539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ever-so-popular "KKK" shops also sometimes raise some eyebrows. < 1389822921 673321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think their logo these days only uses a single "K". < 1389822999 346527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's gone from https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgS7oMY5Zm4QDiYkY9S7pNPCpVqJ10KenrYlxfwNWhq2M2SEjr6Q to oh god, I can't paste this, it's a data:image/jpeg;base64,... URL < 1389823016 941356 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1389823026 538323 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s|oh.*|http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiedosto:K-supermarketin_logo.svg| < 1389823067 584094 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is it a data URI? A canvas element? < 1389823090 230610 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Google image search thumbnail, after open-image-in-new-tab. < 1389823114 89446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's sometimes a gstatic.com link like the first one, and at other times a data:, presumably depending on size. < 1389823124 431417 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :K supermarket, does it have anything to do with KDE? < 1389823179 901983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Sadly, no. (The "K" comes from "Kesko", the company running all K-extras, K-markets, K-supermarkets and K-citymarkets. < 1389823200 713731 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which used to be denoted "K", "KK", "KKK" and "KKKK".) < 1389823218 971159 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :KKKK, 4/3 times as racist as the KKK < 1389823333 760836 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Interesting < 1389823341 627528 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Google using data: like that, that is) < 1389823362 835911 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it’s not a canvas element for some reason < 1389823372 423450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying the ins and outs of Finnish grocery store chains are not interesting!? < 1389823466 742304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I inspect-element these things, they *all* seem to be . < 1389823506 741401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's the one I first linked to, that indeed is not. < 1389823548 312330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some custom "data-src" and "data-sz" attributes too. < 1389823727 748606 :Bike_!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1389824268 12570 :Bike_!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu NICK :Bike < 1389824726 979250 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I think more browsers support data: than canvas < 1389825068 102792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1389825176 204296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-food < 1389825176 389262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 15h 59m 1s ago: That's just it, the Belgian ones are supposed to be the bee's knees, and the owl's whatever-body-parts, &c. < 1389825176 574074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 15h 58m 38s ago: Perhaps we were just eating them wrong. < 1389825226 477689 :peapodamus!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net QUIT : < 1389825362 591601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess we're using different definitions of program < 1389825403 487974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if yours take no input, then equivalent is just having the same result/output < 1389825421 619687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, exactly < 1389825436 423424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem being that you can't necessarily calculate that because they might not provably terminate < 1389825457 728580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but primitive recursive programs always terminate. < 1389825507 805740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: exactly < 1389825511 513244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why equivalence is decidable < 1389825524 249599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't trying to claim that this result was somehow interesting < 1389825600 132176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1389825827 700193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : not sure where the name "split" came from i have no idea <-- i have heard it in the case of module categories, where a split exact sequence is essentially an injection and an epimorphism that together split the middle module into a direct sum. < 1389825861 439746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably inherited from there. < 1389825941 690359 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1389825991 444014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_lemma < 1389826053 478870 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote split < 1389826053 664054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :PenguinOfDoom says: Being enlightened gentlemen, we split all programming languages into two groups, sucks and doesn't-suck and put all of them into the first group. < 1389826060 486460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :these lemmas are always creatively named < 1389826062 527571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oklopol the name is probably from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_lemma < 1389826062 712440 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1389826066 948043 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote lemma < 1389826067 132957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :slava says: Because top enterprise industry analysts recommend that managers need to focus on Agile methodologies, SOA, B2B and Yoneda's lemma in today's rich internet application-driven environment. Don't get left behind by the AJAX craze by missing out on call center outsourcing and Yoneda's lemma! < 1389826099 100324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially ones like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_lemma < 1389826108 63456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_lemma < 1389826119 868599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned recently that there are n^2 lemmas in general iirc < 1389826144 179766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, see the bottom of the page < 1389826229 918148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the number of lemmas, at any given time, is finite < 1389826233 243505 :nchambers!~nchambers@69-84-207-62.biz.arrival.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389826236 1323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably it increases frequently < 1389826247 342450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's unlikely to be a square number at any given moment in time < 1389826262 502000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, do you know what i'm trying to ask in https://plus.google.com/u/0/+ShachafBen-Kiki/posts/Bt4CxtttYxP < 1389826286 725907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i mean that there is a sequence of lemmas analogous to the nine lemma, but with n^2 items in the diagram. < 1389826294 815899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1389826444 337516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: to be fair, i don't recall learning the splitting lemma with a name originally. < 1389826450 336951 :DTSCode!~nchambers@2001:4870:a04e:2:88d5:a584:3915:6ca8 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389826669 99482 :peapodamus!~nodepony@node130.20.251.72.1dial.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1389826803 903892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: can't think of anything nontrivial (e.g. distributive lattice) < 1389826864 28471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite see the sense in which RE = open fits better than RE = closed < 1389826904 906438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, my question about interesting cyclic tag programs < 1389826911 481505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was because I want an interesting example for my new esolang < 1389826978 221974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you mean that you think closed fits better or just that they both seem to make equal sense? < 1389827015 360457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :equal < 1389827040 471225 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if we only allow finite unions and intersections then the definition is symmetric < 1389827049 952023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1389827054 344501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would work either way < 1389827063 39937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka distributive lattice < 1389827073 74635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :my rough intuition is "open set ~ semidecidable predicate" < 1389827089 164367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1389827101 892068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i bet i don't really know what this thing is like < 1389827109 751733 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1389827321 863003 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827495 91886 :Yonkie!~Yonkie@ip.82.144.199.214.stat.volia.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827524 622108 :conehead__!uid16140@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrnfzoghrawnwihb JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827600 256753 :Yonkie_!~Yonkie@ip.82.144.199.214.stat.volia.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1389827676 251680 :qlkzy_!qlkzy@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:4a4a JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827827 978167 :conehead_!uid16140@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkerqlyujkawrjbk QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389827829 119439 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389827830 149156 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389827830 334120 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389827830 612490 :qlkzy!qlkzy@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:4a4a QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389827830 797432 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827831 459637 :nchambers!~nchambers@69-84-207-62.biz.arrival.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389827833 211918 :conehead__!uid16140@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrnfzoghrawnwihb NICK :conehead_ < 1389827871 610119 :Sorella_!~queen@201.80.214.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827907 759951 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827925 384224 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1389827955 476785 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1389827986 131022 :Sorella_!~queen@201.80.214.167 NICK :Sorella < 1389828532 878598 :nooga!~nooga@91.235.25.1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1389829723 799865 :peapodamus2!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1389829756 560016 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1389829771 624171 :peapodamus!~nodepony@node130.20.251.72.1dial.com QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1389829808 813901 :peapodamus2!~nodepony@e2.bc.425e.cidr.airmail.net NICK :peapodamus < 1389829859 899962 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so every finite topology has a dual topology < 1389829863 530503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a name? < 1389830282 669320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find none on browsing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_topological_space