< 1391817995 517891 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1391818001 880977 :aergus!~aergus@pptp-212-201-78-41.pptp.stw-bonn.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1391818002 567233 :conehead_!uid16140@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjhhfblnvodqsngu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1391818015 141934 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1391818241 855668 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1391818250 916003 :conehead__!uid16140@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jxxxwfrxhmgefzje JOIN :#esoteric < 1391818898 835976 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1391819349 645820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you Sgeoing #haskell < 1391819407 943811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1391819411 921089 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do you Sgeo? < 1391819412 281572 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but flaming people for poor spelling grammar also bad. the only other language i can speak english, you make macro writers list all the classes? < 1391819420 968581 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1391819422 708982 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :byyocoin attscoin spachellcoin tectdiscoin cccxxicoin imperdecoin velycoin bitumcoin agacoin waibcoin antcoin auracoin regxcoin unpliamenteuroschcoin shakrusolcoin rhotocoin aniccoin mibbcoin devilcoin ificidicacicoin < 1391819438 942321 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1391819441 36482 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :houcoin affmancoin 5-logcoin lolcoin ozonecoin nonotcoin backcoin sendsoncoin eningcoin ethcoin bracoin bijcoin beasepcoin mdpncoin fromageddendstuckcoin avrllercoin kickcoin bayfelycoin broofcoin longiorsestantcoin < 1391819464 789625 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run wc -l /usr/share/dict/words < 1391819465 395472 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory < 1391819467 744690 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1391819519 774573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /usr/share/dict < 1391819520 571625 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1391819645 775353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you know you can apt-get install wamerican-insane to get a big words list < 1391819686 890589 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :preschoolercoin shittycoin illegalcoin brassierecoin stupefyingcoin profanitycoin liquorcoin aggravationcoin ragcoin slaphappiercoin metamorphiccoin execrablecoin flabbergastcoin < 1391819713 552662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuckholecoin confidentialcoin kismetcoin matinéecoin numeracycoin ignorancecoin linoleumcoin < 1391819754 279699 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1391819772 817025 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpliamenteuroschcoin < 1391820100 977763 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff /usr/share/dict/foo{-insane,} | sed -nre 's/^< (.*)/\1coin/p' < 1391820217 111465 :aergus!~aergus@pptp-212-201-78-41.pptp.stw-bonn.de QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1391820239 799958 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does HackEgo have any dict files? < 1391820254 439617 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i have one of smullyan's books where he defines one of those languages. i should put it on the wiki < 1391820324 505658 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's a pretty cool pattern, but in order to get a tag system, we need it to arrive at the front of the queue in the right orientation. is that easy? < 1391820388 496115 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :% diff /usr/share/dict/american-english{-insane,} | sed -nre 's/^< (.*)/\1coin/p' | shuf | head -n 20 | xargs -d'\n' < 1391820390 807133 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :breathalyzescoin erythrenecoin illimitability'scoin intercirculationcoin Lepismatidaecoin Pleurotomaria'scoin Tachyglossidaecoin sheepfacednesscoin Kapwepwe'scoin micturatedcoin indeterminationscoin brachycephalism'scoin scarpettocoin furoscoin coadministrationscoin oxheadscoin flemitcoin sphenoturbinalcoin Bacocoin Celisse'scoin < 1391820435 518791 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first Google result: To view the definition of sphenoturbinal[1], activate your Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary FREE TRIAL now! < 1391820436 597049 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :egrep '^[a-z]*[a-rt-z]$' < 1391820448 149866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :micturatedcoin nice < 1391820452 271763 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, i surely will do that instead of reading it directly from the second Google result. < 1391820506 362290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: what do you mean by right orientation? < 1391820514 876829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does that regex do exactly? < 1391820515 56350 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tachyglossidaecoin. < 1391820535 848518 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: oh, xargs -d'\n' is really handy! thanks < 1391820569 162815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so handy that one might wonder why it's not the default < 1391820573 521982 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Also: xargs -a <(some command) -d'\n' foo when you don’t want to break foo’s stdin. < 1391820585 580624 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sulphurcoin aristocracycoin steamiestcoin exploitcoin bloatedcoin allegorycoin vicaragecoin dullestcoin < 1391820615 800288 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of words and letters and shit, https://twitter.com/anagramatron < 1391820680 208487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'd imagine the actual structure of the whole queue to consist of these patterns, except for a few "active" blocks. < 1391820709 523081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those blocks would be responsible for synchronizing at their ends, naturally. < 1391820740 384769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they want to activate the data inside one of these patterns, in which case they'd delete the prefix and possibly more. < 1391820744 397675 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'll have to study it to see what it does. right now i have to watch the opening cermonies :P < 1391820774 810968 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It took me a while to get it. < 1391820890 588534 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pro tip: don’t try to analyze the retweets in isolation. < 1391821467 495524 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :available in a different format here http://anagramatron.tumblr.com/ < 1391821755 45878 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should implement Braintrust in Racket < 1391821771 639776 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I can include the Racket compiler in the compiled program < 1391821790 575530 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391821809 322993 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be able to avoid needing to actually have Racket, and effectively have Braintrust compile directly to machine code < 1391821828 916284 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... err, Racket bytecode + Racket interpreter? Not sure how it works < 1391821862 16237 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1391821890 429943 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(i ave a problem :'( < 1391821896 943300 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have* < 1391821909 805355 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome eliudLl24 < 1391821910 768575 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06eliudLl24: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04irc.dal.net.) < 1391821934 305305 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :._. < 1391821949 5731 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha! < 1391821952 387161 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1391822031 30970 :eliudLl24!~eliud@190.204.239.147 PART :#esoteric < 1391822437 762161 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1391822468 148193 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :contraceptioncoin dairycoin arrogantcoin jerkincoin < 1391822602 473021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :jerkcitycoin < 1391822617 559778 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll buy 10000 < 1391822753 852205 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xwwfothbgxldfgvg QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1391822956 252718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: real words seem so passé for this < 1391822979 176342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1391822980 742807 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :geolbecoin nppcoin ardbarcoin ihaxcoin poblidcoin 350coin piecescoin chorreloecoin redcoracoin moncoin flumpaislmcoin brecoin frefcoin tagelpmencoin comcoin nunnytcoin flivitcoin nsomcoin mjicoin 272coin < 1391822994 584974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihaxcoin, clearly < 1391822999 6770 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers now huh < 1391823108 959583 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now treasurer of my uni's CS society help < 1391823238 775389 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you the Taneb in #rust? < 1391823256 510206 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, yes < 1391823268 700516 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you the kmc in #rust < 1391823276 81278 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is FreeFull the FreeFull in #rust < 1391823277 112977 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1391823287 551730 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1391823291 842206 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a nice #esoteric contingent there < 1391823299 814255 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I am < 1391823305 636533 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1391823306 598545 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir sometimes < 1391823327 156931 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to push myself to learn it after I accidentally convinced some of my friends to learn it and they started asking me questions < 1391823327 336689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nice #esoteric contingent and a grouchy #esoteric contingent < 1391823329 424568 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's me) < 1391823410 306545 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1391823414 427040 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: awesome < 1391823428 221692 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's like how I convinced Sgeo to learn Kernel < 1391823443 429128 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1391823454 179438 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I still don't know Kernel < 1391823463 924781 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda like me with Rust < 1391823466 322410 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so, not like it, really" < 1391823477 575395 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I told my friend not to learn it until it hits 1.0 < 1391823483 560857 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust, that is < 1391823489 156432 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of these friends is writing a GNU Chess Twitter bot < 1391823491 779674 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Rust < 1391823507 681211 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: well it's not like the concepts behind ownership, lifetimes, etc. will change < 1391823516 911933 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too early to learn those < 1391823520 217858 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: True, but stuff is still changing < 1391823527 769174 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't expect the code you write to actually compile in a month :) < 1391823532 362921 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error handling and such < 1391823538 624665 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. it's too early to learn the std lib really < 1391823538 804321 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused about the different kinds of pointers but I really just need to sit down and learn them < 1391823556 204629 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Only three kinds I think < 1391823572 583524 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 20 to 2 in the morning, I'm not gonna try and learn them now < 1391823573 107308 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: managed pointers are on their way out so all we have now is owning pointers, references (formerly "borrowed pointers"), and C-style raw pointers < 1391823588 977240 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-style you should already understand < 1391823591 862761 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which twiddle are managed pointers? < 1391823604 144967 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :managed is (was) @T < 1391823608 944251 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay < 1391823609 859961 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uzagpzwtwpratfit JOIN :#esoteric < 1391823610 39448 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: They're not called borrowed pointers anymore? < 1391823615 817477 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: nope! < 1391823633 277139 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the syntax is deprecated in favor of a library type Gc, which isn't actually GC'd yet (just refcounted) just like the old @ boxes < 1391823668 646222 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo, write code dependent on Gc being refcounted, so that the actual later type class thing whatever has to be GcActually < 1391823712 683826 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :By and large I like the language :) < 1391823741 452604 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus i'm so rusty with C i don't remember how to declare a constant. it doesn't have const does it? do i still #DEFINE shit < 1391823782 507938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C does have a const declaration, but that isn't the use for it < 1391823846 987659 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still need to get the hang of it < 1391823853 847102 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I need to get the hang of not-Haskell < 1391823855 726553 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the use for it isn't declaring constants? < 1391823859 251700 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you should see my Python code) < 1391823877 959579 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's const is just a qualifier on pointers < 1391823901 286703 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn it < 1391823912 90529 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing has 'const std::string hw("Hello World\n");' how do i do that in C < 1391823929 428198 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it just be const char* hw = "Hello World\n" because that would make sense < 1391823938 554304 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm is that really true though? GCC will compile "const int x = 3;" as C but is that standard? < 1391824000 910168 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes, or const char hw[] = "Hello World\n"; < 1391824005 247631 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :const is a qualifier for any type < 1391824012 266826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has slightly different semantics < 1391824025 752555 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might as well learn the array pointer distinction some time < 1391824028 603461 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the difference < 1391824038 590083 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays and pointers are totally different < 1391824044 900139 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but arrays decay into pointers in some circumstances < 1391824045 486284 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1391824058 891652 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof acts differently for arrays and pointers < 1391824074 266269 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got this link here but it's down now? http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/c/array-pointer.html < 1391824078 140358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also array is declared as a storage but a pointer doesn't do that < 1391824117 962423 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use const to declare a function that takes an array that has a minimum size < 1391824178 735224 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to use a wrapper around this library but now i'm thinking i'm so bad with C i should write in C just to unfuck myself < 1391824203 431974 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: so think of a static variable as just giving a name to some location in the binary. the «char hw[]» example gives a name to a location where "Hello World\n" is stored; the «char *hw» example gives a name to a location where a pointer (i.e. 4 or 8 bytes) to some location containing "Hello World\n" is stored < 1391824215 459742 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it weren't const, you could reassing «char *hw» to point to another string but not «char hw[]» < 1391824220 92592 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok hold on just a sec here < 1391824225 711523 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it static? < 1391824234 678610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, by static i don't just mean declared with the 'static' keyword < 1391824238 893702 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i know < 1391824246 386959 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just... you're going to ahve to bear with me here < 1391824253 474272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmauke.hopto.org%2Fstuff%2Fc%2Farray-pointer.html < 1391824258 256186 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean anything declared with 'static' in a function or anything declared at the top level of a file, whether declared with 'static' or not < 1391824269 570281 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :static in this context means it's like, not erased by the compiler or anything < 1391824271 295641 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. variables which live at a single fixed location in the loaded binary < 1391824275 336977 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably something cleverer. < 1391824287 296977 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to normal function local variables, which live temporarily on the stack < 1391824296 869392 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. makes sense. < 1391824307 720588 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is sort of an operational view rather than a semantic one < 1391824314 643869 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you kinda have to learn C from both ends < 1391824321 984770 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the semantics don't make a lot of sense without the operational constraints < 1391824362 827464 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway read shachaf's link < 1391824370 963998 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight, all < 1391824379 612614 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight < 1391824391 237613 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say the first milestone to learning C is realizing that pointers and arrays are the same, and the second milestone is realizing that they aren't the same at all < 1391824451 724206 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is sizeof on a pointer the size of "the pointer itself", like a word or whateverr < 1391824455 762222 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1391824475 511875 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a 64-bit machine, sizeof(foo*) == 8 regardless of what type foo is < 1391824498 70274 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i do char* hw = "Hello World" and sizeof it i'll get 1 or 4 or something (or uh, 8) but if i do char hw[] = "Hello World" i'll get 11? < 1391824501 886320 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a typical 64-bit machine, ignoring exotic non-flat memory models and such) < 1391824513 339881 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: 12 because there's a null as well < 1391824517 901796 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah. < 1391824521 920191 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok cool that makes sense. < 1391824558 495907 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the second case, &hw is then the same as hw in the first case? (not counting allocation stuff or whatever, hopefully you know what i mean) < 1391824582 996967 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: &hw is the same as the result of hw decaying to a pointer, yeah < 1391824587 719169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course sizeof(&hw) != sizeof(hw) < 1391824590 763153 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that was static I was thinking of, not const < 1391824599 883330 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :void someFunction(char someArray[static 100]) < 1391824600 63613 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1391824616 241001 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta run, ttyl! < 1391824620 959231 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then if i had the hw pointer version (call it hwp) then &hwp would be a pointer to hwp, which is totally different from &hw < 1391824624 11884 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :later thanks < 1391824799 619526 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :int64_t hw[] = {1,2,3,4}; will give you a sizeof of 32 < 1391825140 872354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: nite < 1391825486 158310 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1391825511 942723 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1391825881 577855 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ther esome constant to return from main instead of zero if i'm being incredibly anal < 1391825909 328448 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any such thing < 1391825935 866606 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, something like RETURN_SUCCESS that's zero on everything except the fuckutron 9000 < 1391825943 482015 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering cos EXIT_SUCCESS and EXIT_FAILURE apparently exist < 1391826056 887669 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1391826092 942575 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1391826093 690974 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1391826571 935358 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.127.188 QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1391827953 22211 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the return codes from main are always the same as the arguments to exit(), I think < 1391827970 885166 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1391828691 288626 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cilantrocoin < 1391828697 181130 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1391828835 822696 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: does the name aaron todd ring a bell? < 1391828867 222709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1391828869 312471 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nick "toddaaro" does < 1391828872 750886 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1391828909 770090 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's my new officemate! he said he knew (of?) you < 1391828957 448538 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1391828999 18310 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news i have more C questions < 1391829005 815005 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1391829010 271243 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we know all of C. < 1391829022 33264 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news everybody! < 1391829022 415882 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this API has a function for getting an array ("an array") of information, like a version string or suchlike < 1391829054 430289 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function is like get_version(size_t, char*, size_t*) < 1391829083 811185 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you basically have to call it twice - the first time the first two arguments are NULL or w/e and you just want the size_t pointer, which tells you the size the result will be < 1391829097 717828 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you call it with the third argument NULL and the first argument the third from last time < 1391829101 183590 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not have two functions? < 1391829140 817390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why two functions when you can have one < 1391829148 820382 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this Windows? < 1391829155 29054 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like Windows API design. < 1391829162 645751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard of windows apis doing that < 1391829171 555163 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not, but the billion NULLs everywhere did give me bad memories of windows < 1391829192 717539 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the goal is to avoid having to call malloc in the library, right, but like... bluh < 1391829218 182304 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the intent is that you can pass a buffer and the size of the buffer, and call a second time if you had to resize the buffer. < 1391829364 556647 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1391829396 21520 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that sort of makes sense... < 1391829430 253514 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: this thing returns a char[] technically. can i just assume that it's null terminated? (it is with my implementation but, anal) < 1391829464 208524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, assume it because of the type? < 1391829480 337125 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type and usual conventions. < 1391829496 731047 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine it's possible to return a non-null-terminated char[], i'm just wondering if anyone does so. < 1391829502 577757 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without saying so, anyway < 1391829520 789830 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's done, but it's also pretty explicitly said. < 1391829533 276424 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default assumption is that a char* is NUL terminated. < 1391829535 715507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"returning a char[]" is kind of strange anyway < 1391829536 658408 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. was kinda paranoid since i had the size of the string on hand and all. < 1391829560 246703 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Unless the function returns a char[static 4] or something then it's just goofy. < 1391829563 253857 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1391829563 893752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're using char * strings in C they'll generally be \0-terminated, yes < 1391829594 856784 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the api spec has "char[]". i actually have it using a char* without complaint, and i guess it's the same as a function argument anyway < 1391829627 185205 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in a function declaration it's just a really stupid way of writing char*. < 1391829644 222029 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in the decl it's a void*... you know what i'm probably not describing this well anyway http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/sdk/1.2/docs/man/xhtml/ < 1391829661 168792 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooooh, it's those idiots. < 1391829670 341519 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They couldn't design a good API to save their lives. < 1391829670 521220 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are khronos known idiots < 1391829674 86267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1391829679 659131 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, OpenGL is horrid. < 1391829704 625487 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does this thing with "contexts" that i vaguely remember from opengl, in fact... < 1391830002 537864 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How you'd do clGetPlatformInfo in a sane way is more like: char *cl_platform_info(int id); < 1391830054 757023 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, no cl_int?? < 1391830067 9535 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cl_int is evidence of brain damage. < 1391830084 910258 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :every C api i have ever used defines its own whatever_int whatever_char whatever_whatever < 1391830103 8248 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is a cargo cult practice. < 1391830116 209703 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait, i don't think memory pool system did. thanks, mps < 1391830124 642924 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell do they do that, it's so confusing. < 1391830133 528594 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i've asked this before. < 1391830149 559704 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why it's done, I just know that it has literally no value. < 1391830209 209170 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm mps sorta does it < 1391830209 389026 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, zlib is claimed to be a good library. Which is saddening. < 1391830212 266301 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A transparent type is an alias defined using typedef, and this is documented so that the client program can rely on that fact. For example, mps_addr_t is a transparent alias for void *. Transparent types express intentions in the interface: in the case of mps_addr_t it represents a pointer that is under the control of the MPS." < 1391830251 679571 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems kind of weird still, but at least there's no mps_int_t. < 1391830256 780085 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with that choice, but that is at least someone being reasonable. < 1391830278 715331 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that library does not strictly conform to C. :P < 1391830292 427379 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*_t is reserved namespace. < 1391830293 191026 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you can't typedef with void* or something? < 1391830295 70305 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1391830306 727155 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whoops, that's all over the place. < 1391830332 128860 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. That too is cargo culted from people seeing it in libc a lot. < 1391830332 308904 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glances through other api docs, finds plenty of size_t and va_list at least < 1391830343 938575 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it's used a lot *because it's reserved for libc*. < 1391830349 485984 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1391830394 519287 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is, you can't make your own types ending in _t. Because that's reserved. < 1391830414 986214 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, sure. < 1391830420 124760 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a weirdo hungarian thing, i guess. < 1391830454 200326 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :More a "C has no namespacing whatsoever" thing. < 1391830455 103595 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i first started programming i tried a lot of C but never quite understood it because of things like this that are never explained. being a programmer in that sort of environment seems demoralizing. < 1391830484 491000 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is largely a matter of no good books on the subject existing. < 1391830502 900359 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly Learn C in 24 Hours wasn't the best choice on my part < 1391830504 843912 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1391830510 390553 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because many C programmers learned C from cargo culting in the 80s. < 1391830591 469899 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started learning C by writing programs that crash a lot. I still haven't left that phase. < 1391830659 438848 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so with your sane way - that means the cl library handles the malloc-ing? < 1391830687 160809 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It returns a pointer to a fixed, constant buffer in the library. < 1391830766 346090 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see. i don't think it's necessarily that fixed though. < 1391830777 551051 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i just noticed these Get functions are allowed to return OOM codes anyway. < 1391830787 556101 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1391830789 377022 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's cool < 1391830802 877785 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all so efficient! < 1391830820 139325 :impomatic!~john_metc@79.251.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1391830855 56399 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way to handle it, if it can't be fixed or even fixed in size, is: char *cl_platform_info(char **, size_t *); < 1391830864 935405 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherein it'll call realloc for you if necessary. < 1391830894 231236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that assumes a lot about how you'll be doing memory management < 1391830907 164178 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1391830944 474444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that your string will be allocated by malloc() < 1391831324 191595 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, in this case the cl_uint etc. thing might be justified, since cl defines a C-ish language for devices that aren't the host, so uint on the host may not be the device's uint, so they call the latter cl_uint < 1391831331 657597 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there's no way the device is calling these functions. < 1391831657 596485 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we can expect internal chip speeds to increase by a factor of approximately 13 overall up to 2012, when the clock rates reach about 10GHz" < 1391831677 372031 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1391831690 971010 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1391831716 108395 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C APIs have so many wacky ways to manage memory... in this sense Rust actually has *fewer* pointer types than C ;) < 1391831775 943152 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that Rust's different pointer types are checked by the compiler, rather than being something you have to hold in your head and never ever screw up or you get pwned < 1391831841 753517 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ooh are you using MPS? < 1391831848 93255 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPS seems pretty shiny < 1391831859 670954 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just what comes to mind when i think of "C API that i can remotely understand" < 1391831872 265378 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1391831873 766577 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice to have to use it < 1391832180 228944 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this thing says a return value can be "a combination of" a bunch of opaque constants < 1391832199 78609 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1391832205 989604 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably mean a bitwise OR < 1391832213 797990 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1391832221 766953 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who knows < 1391832254 238319 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Currently supported values are one of or a combination of: CL_DEVICE_TYPE_CPU, CL_DEVICE_TYPE_GPU, CL_DEVICE_TYPE_ACCELERATOR, CL_DEVICE_TYPE_DEFAULT, a combination of the above types, or CL_DEVICE_TYPE_CUSTOM. " kinda redundant actually < 1391832472 169680 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool gcc doesn't recognize CL_DEVICE_TYPE_CUSTOM, maybe i can "file a bug" < 1391832586 253852 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey sweet these things have popcnt. finally good news. < 1391832608 849162 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the GPU. what's a GPU do with popcnt? hell if i know but i'm excited to find out. < 1391832699 801897 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if pikhq would like the thirty lines beginning with "typedef cl_uint" < 1391832734 95645 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WARNING! Unlike cl_ types in cl_platform.h, cl_bool is not guaranteed to be the same size as the bool in kernels." what's the point of anything life is meaningless < 1391833668 603041 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran all resplicate sequences of the form 6 3 10 1 62 n 1 for all odd numbers up to 500 and classified them according to what they did long-term. < 1391833699 76948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out 6 3 10 1 6 2 459 1 is a period 9808 oscillator < 1391833706 604634 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or rather, becomes one) < 1391833718 6758 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1391833886 141377 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1391834357 217051 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I be concerned that a Racket dev is pointing to node.js as an example of why I shouldn't complain about something that Racket does? < 1391834368 248720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1391834379 771790 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense of 'it worked for node.js, it would work for us' < 1391834421 253683 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Racket/comments/1w88rq/social_solution_to_a_technical_problem/cf9vy4g?context=3 < 1391834452 988249 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1391834481 744468 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly ironic because of the multi-year fight over who gets to be "node" in Debian < 1391834556 788169 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 6 3 10 1 6 2 383 1 converges to the 688-twos oscillator after 42,118 cycles. < 1391834572 360457 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :METHUSELAH < 1391834705 881256 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: port syntax-parse to Rust < 1391834714 182997 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no u < 1391834729 521416 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if Racket's syntax-parse, when told that something is an expression, will expand it to check < 1391834771 930285 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I want to write a more hygienic syntax-quasiquote < 1391835544 847279 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1391835579 890259 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1391835748 715121 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that thing you linked me. Haven't watched yet, but I assume it's intended to be if the language has already been implemented, and starting from scratch things could have been done differently, this wouldn't be needed? < 1391835851 858582 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1391836147 299264 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1391836474 523383 :w00tles!~w00tles@192.38.10.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391836638 456778 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: should I be twitching in discomfort at a templating system that picks up on the lexical environment of the include-template? < 1391836681 682268 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask your doctor if you should be twitching < 1391836964 748345 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's anything like the feeling I get when I pass locals() to a Django template... < 1391836972 512667 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1391837028 688558 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monotone: obviously the template code should be rewritten to use the 'inspect' module to read its caller's locals implicitly < 1391837031 703218 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D :D :D < 1391837093 391831 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anything that makes us more like PHP has to be good, right?" < 1391837175 494219 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinners, sinners, i'm surrounded by iniquity < 1391837204 938370 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not too late to renounce the material world and become a monk! < 1391837235 54219 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, I think Perl ruined that one. < 1391837256 277806 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yeah, you're screwed. < 1391837273 210577 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is new < 1391837428 293229 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Winter Olympics? < 1391837481 549201 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've been having those forever. < 1391837494 606178 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need something fresh!! < 1391837730 740261 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like you won't be satisfied with anything but the blood of the innocent. < 1391837746 531137 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously < 1391837837 143597 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to ask kmc for that. < 1391838043 536743 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc what's the market price of innocent blood < 1391838572 854567 :luserdroog!636c1b05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.108.27.5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391838763 256686 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez it's so hard to get ever since silk road shut down < 1391838825 114662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only since 1924, that's hardly "forever" < 1391839202 834229 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try Light Table < 1391839221 384525 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm willing to like Smalltalk merely because of the IDE, trying a 'good' IDE for a language I once liked shouldn't be painful < 1391839229 898194 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not like I have new reason to dislike Clojure < 1391839440 246826 :w00tles!~w00tles@192.38.10.2 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1391840644 358689 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have known "typedef intptr_t cl_context_properties" wasn't going to end well. it ended with clCreateContext({CL_CONTEXT_PLATFORM, (cl_context_properties)(platform[0]), 0}, ...) < 1391840688 765178 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw cl_uint isn't a mere unsigned int, it's actually unsigned __int32 < 1391841606 702374 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :indiscretioncoin grittiercoin cockamamiecoin weepcoin manslaughtercoin gloamingcoin kebabcoin yawncoin snackcoin spaghetticoin < 1391841664 925868 :Tritonio1!~Thunderbi@athedsl-16406.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1391841855 810850 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@athedsl-16406.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1391841860 895488 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :weepcoin sounds useful and fun < 1391841999 758409 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mine weepcoins by weeping < 1391842010 339426 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit i'm way ahead of the market < 1391842015 918117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo hugcoin < 1391842134 459160 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matthew Green's rationale for launching Zerocoin as a new currency: "If people will put money into Dogecoin, they’ll put it into anything" < 1391842496 543656 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a more entertaining read, The Reasoned Schemer, or Purely Functional Data Structures? < 1391842534 66305 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recommend some karel čapek. < 1391842534 808811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the former is more entertaining but i care more about the results in the latter < 1391842580 780358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your goal is entertainment there are also other books you could read that would satisfy it even better < 1391844838 872081 :luserdroog!636c1b05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.108.27.5 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1391847089 216873 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kalecoin < 1391847238 41279 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1391847409 135196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1391847410 795883 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rflcercoin percoin 90pcoin demcoin 3trecoin rtnencoin um-32coin sheavoignacoin cystoccoin undennecoin goto++coin vernankcoin wildcoin rssbcoin fortcoin chrcoin iotcoin gagnacoin tace1.0coin spartneratemlcoin < 1391847426 375406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :90pcoin, the cryptocurrency for the 90%. < 1391847589 406893 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_________: this seems like something you'd like: http://dorrismccomics.com/post/6384447758 < 1391848336 620725 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bfut4WoCQAAdY3o.jpg < 1391848420 552972 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the Perl 5 interpreter source were lost, I'm pretty sure we as a species could not accurately recreate it." < 1391848451 574191 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: heh. < 1391848837 805776 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests that'll teach them < 1391851728 849809 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391851780 673528 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Changing host < 1391851780 855846 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1391852456 756897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1391853593 44062 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1391854458 631343 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1391854510 127669 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1391854515 195318 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1391854766 73235 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I installing EiffelStudio? < 1391855141 613526 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you asking us < 1391855515 239596 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1391856854 845752 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1391857866 805464 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/gallery/nfRsdYe < 1391858940 801115 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1391861725 200315 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1391862638 577746 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1391862724 16422 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@fluttershy.is.bestpony.tk JOIN :#esoteric < 1391864019 871230 :Tritonio1!~Thunderbi@athedsl-16406.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1391864191 412642 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@athedsl-16406.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1391864966 117475 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1391865279 881190 :MoALTz!~no@host81-153-176-198.range81-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1391865373 580975 :itsy!~digital_w@79.251.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1391865626 232739 :MoALTz!~no@host86-131-149-173.range86-131.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1391865845 219888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1391866342 414361 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1391866483 880781 :MoALTz!~no@host86-131-149-173.range86-131.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1391866660 408919 :MoALTz!~no@host81-153-176-66.range81-153.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1391866724 853779 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking Baryons http://youtu.be/eI91bT-p5Oc | Desperately Seeking Susy http://youtu.be/3vM5u3VT_WE < 1391866935 28140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got my Heart on a String < 1391867192 127969 :MoALTz!~no@host81-153-176-66.range81-153.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1391867824 240504 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.127.188 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391867994 523741 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1391868257 917784 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1391868292 108449 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1391868441 787835 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1391868566 114828 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1391868734 437867 :itsy!~digital_w@79.251.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Core War tournament has just been announced http://youtu.be/41GIevxobH0 (more details tomorrow) < 1391870846 507133 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391871723 672366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ELLIPSIS < 1391871724 297810 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown character. < 1391871740 844380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS < 1391871741 558534 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​… < 1391872095 12673 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1391872129 589172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello just confirming one of your conjectures < 1391872141 500671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and making your python work) < 1391872163 889332 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode PILE OF SHIT < 1391872164 677182 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown character. < 1391872167 517782 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. < 1391872171 709188 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it called? < 1391872177 118530 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my local copy works perfectly! < 1391872180 891809 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode PILE OF POO < 1391872181 625222 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown character. < 1391872230 114738 :Slereah_!~jackal@169.111.101.84.rev.sfr.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH E017 < 1391872230 819560 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​𓃥 < 1391872236 694314 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably the wiki version isn't the same as my local version. i updated them together rather than copypasting) < 1391872260 5925 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which conjecture did you confirm < 1391872263 473795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is the remainder a conjecture at all < 1391872274 220308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The family 6 3 10 1 6 2 (2k) 1 for k at least 12 always becomes an oscillator of period k-1." < 1391872310 297303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tracing it by hand, and doing the python on a couple examples to check i didn't mess up < 1391872454 885113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shikhin: HackEgo has a copy of python that cannot handle all of unicode. < 1391872456 951537 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't understand your proof. the last line and 6th line look nothing the same... :P < 1391872469 55097 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Fix it! < 1391872488 706246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :6th last line, quintopia < 1391872502 172057 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1391872527 740693 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1391872546 39941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shikhin: too much work, especially while HackEgo is otherwise somewhat broken (but don't count on me doing it anyway) < 1391872566 482891 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :-( < 1391872610 199778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1391872640 791075 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i ran 6 3 10 1 6 2 n 1 for all odds up to 500 and categorized the long-term behavior for each one. i can uncover no pattern. < 1391872686 107317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1391872747 368546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed a miscounting in the description. < 1391872787 77873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow looked at the wrong vertical ellipsis when counting the first time < 1391874641 88262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391875435 581666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you might want the little resplicate building block i made < 1391875474 967283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's OK, I already proved it TC < 1391875478 402803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ResPlicate's TC < 1391875485 280923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1391875542 258977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and a little aww, too) < 1391875629 825944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: oerjan: http://nethack4.org/esolangs/resplicate/tag-to-resplicate.pl http://nethack4.org/esolangs/resplicate/tc-proof-notes.txt < 1391875662 328384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag system to resplicate compiler, notes I wrote when creating it (so you can get some insight into how I go about proving languages TC) < 1391875677 16835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost inspired to make a tarpit version now (which would probably be more complex than the original) < 1391875686 977206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :resplicate has a whole bunch of capabilities that aren't particularly useful < 1391875737 528116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, that compiler uses -1 for cells that never execute < 1391875746 942807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that technically complies with the language definition < 1391875761 867892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not < 1391876282 99442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just substitute any other number, though < 1391876288 354362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me go change it < 1391876362 369392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now it uses 523 < 1391876460 75009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually the TCness proof was pretty routine < 1391876472 348854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was only one difficult bit, remembering where the IP was after copying the alphabet < 1391876533 223457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that interp's got a lot more complex overnight < 1391876575 837662 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1391877366 605037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm reading your .txt, i think the part about being allowed to copy misaligned alphabets is important for being able to perform a command in a single pass of the queue, which is also alas why you won't be needing anything like the nice building block i made < 1391877392 767076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I feel like there may be some complex solution that doesn't require misaligned alphabets < 1391877412 26109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's not much point, because resplicate isn't really a tarpit, it has a whole range of different things you can do < 1391877440 300451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my vague thoughts (which i tried not to think _too_ much about since i knew you were working on it) was that you'd need a second pass through to clean up afterwards, which is why i thought such a "stabilizer" was needed when you went through the rest of the queue < 1391877496 357668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i was thinking cyclic tag instead, which i now realize is more complicated. < 1391877521 112617 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because you have state that needs to be passed on) < 1391877575 185317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you have/cyclic tag has/ < 1391877622 735756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyclic tag is basically one of the simplest models for "the program and data are separate" models < 1391877640 878170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to mix them up, then you can use tag, which basically just needs a queue and a lookup table < 1391877653 5316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup tables are awkward in many languages, but pretty easy in ResPlicate < 1391877686 632900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1391877846 66629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the only tricky issue in ResPlicate is trying to distribute copies of the lookup table where you need them, while not losing track of what you're doing in the process < 1391878590 810936 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/articles/newly-tenured-professor-now-inspired-to-work-harde,35169/?utm_source=butt&utm_medium=butt&utm_campaign=butt < 1391878813 697320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with all the key=butt in the query string? < 1391878879 784767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: You should get to the bottom of this < 1391878890 824552 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It had some more boring tracking information but i fixed it. < 1391878904 316618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1391878935 263085 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you delete it though... < 1391878966 453109 :MoALTz!~no@host86-137-47-253.range86-137.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1391879033 653884 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That would result in a lack of butts in some httpd log. < 1391879054 923656 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. Try uploading a file that is not an image. http://i.srsfckn.biz/ < 1391879149 696398 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorful. < 1391879184 621241 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't like .xpm < 1391879185 240920 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sniff. < 1391879244 690890 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or windows bitmaps. is it jpg and png only? < 1391879291 385331 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl: (26) failed creating formpost data < 1391879317 213480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happen if the file has extra data on the end? < 1391879320 77965 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, gif, too. < 1391879358 414279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nevermind I figured out the problem < 1391879443 396660 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mind extra data. < 1391879525 886788 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I convert it into CP437 encoding? < 1391879606 767975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I figured out I have iconv in MinGW < 1391879701 170871 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.srsfckn.biz/95.png < 1391879731 143911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1391880016 260715 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1391880043 462189 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried uploading a ZIP archive by prepending a 1x1 PNG file and it works < 1391880119 908419 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.srsfckn.biz/3B2.png < 1391880197 288113 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-a-- 2.0 fat 6294 b- defN 14-Feb-08 09:12 pic.ans < 1391880266 131915 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what it is done < 1391880309 751376 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a file can be unzipped even though it is uploading as PNG < 1391881211 744287 :Tritonio1!~Thunderbi@82.221.102.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1391881401 196984 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@athedsl-16406.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1391882658 653967 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you make nethack4 deliver pl files with a text/plain mime type please? < 1391882671 891604 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather examine code in browser < 1391882704 204375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hmm, is there any way to get your browser to override the MIME type? < 1391882716 864892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the current situation because then I get syntax highlighting < 1391882792 520303 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know of any way for dolphin < 1391882808 395715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use a filesystem browser as a web browser? < 1391882816 830761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140208-pi2.jpg <- it's a Raspberry Pi. (Well, part of it.) < 1391882818 821866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there /three/ programs called dolphin? < 1391882822 348200 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mobile browser not the file system browser < 1391882837 981388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, right, there are at least three programs called dolphin < 1391882850 716882 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :three programs...plus gamecube < 1391882867 942422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gamecube emulator's named after the gamecube's codename < 1391882873 293115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that isn't really surprising < 1391882896 408029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I remember seeing someone complaining that their computer thought that their gamecube emulator was a file manager and kept trying to open directories in it…) < 1391882968 672388 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long until gamecube emulator for mobile < 1391882999 212957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it'd be a while before mobile phone have enough power, a few years at least < 1391883055 467685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even on PCs, gamecube emulators don't have accurate timings for reading from CD yet < 1391883064 227887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which completely changes the strategy for some games < 1391883165 913298 :shikhout!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1391883211 156449 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what mime type does it actually deliver .py as? i'll search for plugins or something < 1391883216 883578 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.pl < 1391883279 319992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Type: application/x-perl < 1391883296 63263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, had to go tell my browser to capture the HTTP headers, browsers tend not to do that by default < 1391883336 195935 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1391883336 875572 :shikhout!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1391883505 228079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gah, now I'm thinking about the 1D MMO again < 1391883513 384460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of #esoteric's sillier ideas < 1391883565 384379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least one 1D shooter, Lineality. < 1391883575 568260 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://archive.org/details/Lineality < 1391883593 259798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in a 1D shooter, it seems quite hard to miss < 1391883600 167895 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not online at all, though.) < 1391883611 82669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of mechanics are used to make the shooting part interesting? you have to get the range accurate? < 1391883630 920799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember. It's possible that no effort was spent to make it an interesting game. < 1391883696 881125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can select between "Width Mode", "Height Mode" and "Depth Mode", which I think control the direction of the line. < 1391883701 640720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can also optionally rotate. < 1391883778 16574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you get to choose the direction to shoot at, and enemies drop life. < 1391883789 777244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's some amount of strategy involved in deciding when to turn around. < 1391884015 126136 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.127.188 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an MMO on a tape would be cute < 1391884128 318437 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever feel disappointed that your gpu isn't four dimensional because i do < 1391884338 758357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: modern GPUs are perfectly capable of doing four-dimensional calculations (then rendering them to 3D, then 2D for the screen) < 1391884348 218786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the GPU itself is three-dimensional < 1391884354 507080 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't have 4d work groups though < 1391884379 146067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, most GPU programming languages don't let you mess around with the 5x5 matrices you'd need < 1391884380 453916 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :256×256×256 max. tyrannical < 1391884386 28184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CUDA and OpenCL do < 1391884410 831830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's pretty minor, given that if you're creating a "256x256x256" group it's basically just concatenating the bits of the three coordinates < 1391884417 583773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just modulo them out of the block number by hand < 1391884432 525776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some GPUs even have shift operations nowadays < 1391884465 745317 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just not the same, man! < 1391884521 877088 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm going to write my first gpgpu program up in here. gonna square an array. shit yeah. < 1391884542 306699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: oh boy, have fun < 1391884548 627211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use that as a GPU optimization test for our students sometimes < 1391884560 677891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are mindbogglingly high numbers of ways to screw that up performance-wise < 1391884572 301737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think you should have support just arbitrary dimensional < 1391884575 347107 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking about what would make a good "hello world" but matrix*vector and summing a vector both seemed too complicated < 1391884579 566835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you write a naive matrix-squaring program, there are at least 8 optimizations you can do < 1391884610 463656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically the way it works is that the GPU can handle a limited number of "blocks" at any given time, which are basically the large scheduling units of the GPU < 1391884614 204233 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tutorial i'm going off of uses an actual hello world. like what, this is a fucking gpu < 1391884651 472425 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it raytrace "Hello world!"? < 1391884657 95686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want blocks to have high data locality, i.e. you want to reduce the amount of memory that each individual block accesses as far as possible < 1391884659 422607 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that seems like something that'd be sensical to do on a GPU < 1391884666 468691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blocks have numbers that are just integers (typically 24-bit) < 1391884673 247060 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it just has each unit put a single letter into a string < 1391884677 183992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it often makes sense to interpret them as coordinates < 1391884680 502264 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, boring < 1391884685 177651 :MoALTz!~no@host86-137-47-253.range86-137.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1391884696 152843 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: actually, GPU-accelerated memcpy is a pretty good hello world < 1391884708 864490 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy maybe, but this is a constant... < 1391884722 377785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I wasn't suggesting for a hello world < 1391884735 529265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as a first project that isn't very difficult yet is the sort of task GPUs are actually good at < 1391884753 916301 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figure elementwise squaring shouldn't be hard. < 1391884755 304831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-26098944 < 1391884760 100416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to not sound sinister bbc < 1391884767 154404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack 4 uses GPU acceleration for copying rectangular areas around in video memory (and occasionally alpha-blending), that's about it < 1391884773 151855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it still helps a lot because GPUs are very fast < 1391884777 7103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: oh, element-wise < 1391884779 228846 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only taking time because the only tutorial i found is in C++ and kind of fucked up < 1391884784 482479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you mean multiplying an array by itself < 1391884786 71738 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack 4 uses the gpu??? < 1391884788 482901 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you thinking? cross product? < 1391884798 572612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_________: only in tiles or faketerm mode < 1391884801 307172 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah i'm excited to hear even term roguelikes are high-end now < 1391884811 380985 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw I was hoping it was just for internal optimisation < 1391884818 752861 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. alpha blending? what? < 1391884830 668096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: in case it wants to draw "monster on stairs" or whatever < 1391884839 338055 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dag < 1391884860 398148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditionals are really hard to do on a GPU, turns out that alpha blending (multiplying by 1 or 0) is actually faster than using an if statement to do transparency any other way < 1391884887 535221 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1391884891 751183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, they're not /hard/, you can write them just fine < 1391884896 323012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but GPUs are not fast at evaluating them < 1391884906 435467 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have any branch prediction? < 1391884913 494904 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it but < 1391884975 488038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they actually /can't/ have branch prediction, the way they work, because absolutely everythig is SIMD < 1391884996 984921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if statements tend to be very slow unless the entire warp takes the same branch, as a result < 1391885004 483711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it has to process the branches separately < 1391885047 109140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs do something that's similar in nature to branch prediction, though < 1391885047 861171 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :warp? < 1391885066 616109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a block tries to access data, it'll deschedule it while it's waiting for the data to arrive from RAM < 1391885085 194832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a half-warp is the unit that actually runs on a GPU at once < 1391885114 923591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it has one ALU for each thread in the half-warp, they all run in perfect lock-step (sufficiently so that if you know what the GPU's warp size is, you can get away with not adding in synchronization primitives) < 1391885152 675192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :current GPUs take one clock cycle to write the value back into block memory, so you effectively have an entire warp running concurrently < 1391885173 767953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPU programming languages tend to abstract away the existence of warps, you work at the thread or block level < 1391885247 261891 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :blugh, it's going to suck figuring out how to write a kernel for the actual thing i'm writing. i'm porting it from matlab full of branches V_V < 1391885263 685140 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not-independent for loop iterations < 1391885270 110803 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good time to have zero experience with concurrency < 1391885341 932153 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can NetHack 4 run in text mode and not use GPU (such as if it is not available)? < 1391885376 305702 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is Checkout on esolang wiki though, but no implementation (as far as I know) < 1391885437 35972 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wrote it. < 1391885524 99469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it can run in text mode without the GPU < 1391886070 341591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day I'd like to write a game entirely on the GPU, that sounds like it could be fun < 1391886187 929984 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do a multiline string in C again < 1391886222 127659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"first line\n" (put a literal newline here) "second line\n" and so on < 1391886249 178894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C ignores doublequote, whitespace, doublequote sequences in strings < 1391886275 654235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also ignores backslash-newline sequences anywhere but that's typically a bad idea to use because that doesn't let you indent the line afterwards < 1391886286 226657 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well that's convenient < 1391886299 290885 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did program a bit more of "Savant's Maze" roguelike game; now it is possible to pick up items and list them in your inventory. However, a curse affects all items of the same kind so if you have a cursed scroll of knight move and pick up an uncursed one, that one will become cursed too, or if you have an uncursed one and pick up a cursed one, both will become cursed. < 1391886348 290703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a backslash-newline in the middle of a keyword is typically frowned on < 1391886384 448191 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1391887235 257203 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero < 1391887294 505810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the backslash-newline thing was invented for the same reason as trigraphs, so that you could write a very simple mechanical translator from C-code-I-found-on-Usenet (the Web didn't exist back then) to C-code-that-fits-my-machine's-text-encoding < 1391887307 612834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, to deal with line length issues rather than character set issues < 1391887323 82101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the days of punched cards, there were literal limits on the longest lines it was possible to store in text files < 1391887327 988568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm < 1391887335 29855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if punched cards and Usenet coexisted, it seems unlikely < 1391887345 334122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly punched-card machines were still in use as Usenet were starting, but not widespread < 1391887644 160110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think that given the design of C, the most likely explanation is that they did it like that just in case someone wanted to use it with a punched card machine at some point < 1391887882 141239 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1391888154 260795 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "\ \" < 1391888156 136505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "" < 1391888578 931454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: interesting use of backslashes < 1391888585 776520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you put stuff other than whitespace in between them? < 1391888596 877546 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about in comments? < 1391888607 260129 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :backslash-newline in C, I mean < 1391888614 183741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: you can backslash-newline inside comments, including // comments < 1391888619 289426 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1391888623 920067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a great way to troll people, I think gcc warns about it nowadays < 1391888629 733230 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe "nice" is not the right word < 1391888631 799467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also backslash-newline between the / and * or * and / < 1391888638 272455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's quite hard to make that look like an accident < 1391888660 273490 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "\ a \" < 1391888661 961131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:6: < 1391888662 140680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at character 'a' < 1391888708 604418 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you could camouflage it in line comments doing something like /// this is a comment \\\ < 1391888709 584341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be fun, although kind-of pointless, if strings allowed comments in them < 1391888725 173787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you can do that using "hello "/* this is a comment */"world" < 1391888756 350637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because comments are transformed to whitespace before string literals are concatenated < 1391888973 732236 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even better with trigraphs < 1391888976 62622 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : // Will the next line be executed????????????????/ < 1391888976 648850 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a++; < 1391889078 767162 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more C questions. i have a const char[] source at toplevel. in a function when i try declaring "char[][] sources = {source}" gcc tells me the element type is incomplete. < 1391889159 106903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't define an array of things whose size is unknown < 1391889173 550677 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the size of char[] is unknown (unlike, say, char[10]) < 1391889189 172398 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would probably use: char *sources[] < 1391889202 471976 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1391889205 197646 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an array of char* < 1391889249 327125 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that works (once i add a const), thanks < 1391889369 806639 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :const char *foo[] is an array of const char*, right? can i make the array itself constant (not really necessary, but) < 1391889537 734758 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :const char * const foo[] < 1391889563 319555 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elegant < 1391889566 607326 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's uncommon though < 1391889568 875556 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1391889585 355318 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's pointless here < 1391889591 507036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people get more particular about const in C++ < 1391889594 814333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in some styles of C++ < 1391889615 749311 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which cdecl < 1391889616 403237 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1391889618 635798 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1391889651 299911 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can use it on the web here: http://cdecl.org/ < 1391889654 339926 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :C syntax is kinda weird < 1391889654 684382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"declare foo as array of const pointer to const char" < 1391889669 761505 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, int typedef foo; being legal, since typedefs are just regular declarations < 1391889684 95699 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yeah < 1391889706 25149 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a certain degree of internal consistency ("declaration follows use!") but it's a /bad/ rule even if there is a rule < 1391889731 30479 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :const int (* volatile bar)[64] // ;___; < 1391889731 210577 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had this idea that i could use {...} as a constant literal nameless array because of the initializer syntax < 1391889734 9664 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That part is somewhat reasonable-ish I find < 1391889734 189262 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a fool i was! < 1391889745 504317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to define a function that returns pointers to arrays < 1391889751 985827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure if it's legal < 1391889752 382259 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, at least it's not completely weird once you understand what's going on < 1391889762 357022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not? < 1391889764 689861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with declaration follows use, the resulting syntaxes are beautifully bizarre < 1391889770 662695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some new things are allowed in GNU C though < 1391889775 749497 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"char * const (*(* const bar)[5])(int )" lol < 1391889817 947116 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get types that complex the only reasonable approach is typedefs < 1391889830 230890 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let me see if i can untangle it without this site < 1391889830 593980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see; function taking void, returning pointer to int[2], would be by declaration-follows-use int *(func(void))[2] < 1391889830 773849 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of typedefs < 1391889862 666677 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: What does int typedef foo; mean? < 1391889867 779142 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :............. < 1391889869 622249 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i give up. < 1391889872 336244 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as typedef int foo; < 1391889876 270945 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1391889880 352565 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`typedef` is just a storage specifiec IIRC < 1391889881 42458 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: typedef`: not found < 1391889882 382867 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifier* < 1391889894 652833 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1391889898 389995 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So same as const and static? < 1391889915 66554 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1391889926 817732 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you might need to write that as "int *(func(void))[static 2]" to have it not be literally the same as returning an int**. :) < 1391889931 174446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl translates "declare f as function (void) returning pointer to array 2 of int" to "int (*f(void ))[2]" < 1391889947 968952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: doesn't it returns a variably modified type anyway? < 1391889978 294248 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but with [static 2] it's a constraint violation to return a buffer with fewer than 2 elements. < 1391889989 294842 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, i got my segfault again < 1391889995 342239 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooyeah livin the dream < 1391889999 995801 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[static 2] is a wonderfully obscure corner of C99 :) < 1391890002 820824 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with [*] < 1391890009 76440 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite fond of it. :) < 1391890011 824043 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1391890014 891383 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I learned it from you here :) < 1391890016 402680 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure what that does < 1391890020 292412 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, now I am I guess < 1391890022 287349 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int [fungot 2]; < 1391890022 823021 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i don't think you can make clumsy, kludgey workarounds. the interviewee thought it was < 1391890024 503250 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not like those features of C99 < 1391890030 585077 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The really nice thing about [static 2] is, it even *has a point*. < 1391890040 382292 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly i think i'd be happy just if [] went on the type instead of the name < 1391890047 181699 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: int foo[static 1] is a non-nullable pointer. :) < 1391890048 264738 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and function pointer type syntax just... died in a hole somewhere < 1391890051 808663 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot does not approve of C99's obscure corners < 1391890051 988673 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: i could be < 1391890059 301183 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: make your mind up < 1391890059 562433 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: though right now i'm putting the finishing touches on it.) < 1391890063 266287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stronger than just a non-nullable pointer < 1391890075 464340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Such thing is worthless as far as I can tell. < 1391890077 659713 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[static 2] is a promise to the compiler, right? not anything the compiler will check for you (unless you get lucky with warnings) < 1391890081 71195 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1391890087 797953 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Right, yes. < 1391890094 379207 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a bunch of things I thought was weird when I looked through http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/ANSI-C-grammar-y.html once < 1391890110 965198 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[static 1] is *essentially* a non-nullable pointer though. As it guarantees it'll point to a valid buffer with at least one element. < 1391890111 586168 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think i need to queue up a read even though it's synced to host memory < 1391890112 877260 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatevs < 1391890118 502743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include \\int (*f(void ))[2] {\ return malloc (2 * sizeof (int));\}\\int main(void) {\ int (*x)[2] = f();\ free(x);\ return 0;\} < 1391890124 958346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a C program with \ rather than newline) < 1391890127 725576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does actually compile and run < 1391890142 825505 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's non-nullable but it also has to point to memory which is mapped, and is of the appropriate type < 1391890155 24262 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1391890163 839887 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw: in this thing there's a setup to wait for something on the event queue to finish, but you can also specify that the i/o operation you're enqueuing should block < 1391890168 992297 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't be UB to dereference it. Slightly stronger, yeah. < 1391890179 600812 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :There Is More Than One Way To Do It And They're All Kind Of Weird < 1391890227 280117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the way BLISS does it is better? Nice features of BLISS are not found in C or any other modern programming languages I know of. < 1391890251 85787 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1391890263 147633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is C a modern programming language? it's more like a coelacanth to me < 1391890274 797810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "coelacanth" mean? < 1391890286 66346 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1391890291 240228 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coelacanth is a fish famous for being "evolutionarily old". < 1391890291 826835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1391890301 471630 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a type of fish which has not evolved much in the past 400 million years < 1391890302 690809 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the species has been "basically the same" for "a very long time" < 1391890325 575333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're kinda ugly < 1391890337 296923 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom < 1391890348 405805 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1391890355 427153 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's believed to be closely related with the first tetrapods. < 1391890364 341937 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :refer to previous message < 1391890372 122202 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the point is that C isn't a modern programming language, says kmc < 1391890380 540209 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still kickin' < 1391890383 185362 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1391890388 623416 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not, since it doesn't have legs, just fins < 1391890391 99547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C will outlive the human race < 1391890408 770880 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, did we put it on some space probe? < 1391890415 979594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my opinion is that C99 and C11 and so on are trying to improve C in the wrong way. < 1391890432 552076 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo is strongly opposed to jaws and adaptive immune systems < 1391890445 798681 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :~biology joke~ < 1391890494 722427 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i suppose coelacanths have those. boring. < 1391890526 621065 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna go bunch a shark < 1391890549 589937 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the way bones develop is completely insane, i see why sharks don't wanna < 1391890555 559350 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look like tampons with a billion eyes...................... < 1391890560 795042 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D http://ponzi.io/ < 1391890582 674447 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: yeah wtf < 1391890587 861679 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sound of a thousand economists' heads exploding < 1391890618 281453 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these numbers real... < 1391890656 552183 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"STILL WAITING TO MY 0.017728BTC FROM YESTERDAY. 3-4 TIMES WORKED FOR ME THEN GRABBED ALL MY MONEY." holy shit < 1391890659 584576 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is beautiful < 1391890676 120145 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP INVEST IF YOU WANT TO LOOOSE YOUR MONEY! < 1391890705 878430 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Support for zero length arrays is a good way to improve C. < 1391890759 520834 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so that amount of BTC is about twelve bucks right now < 1391890767 521210 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it even better. < 1391890788 879377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1BTC is such a large unit that it's hard to get a mental grasp on it < 1391890808 837831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not clicking the link, but is that site basically a ponzi scheme that's totally upfront about it? < 1391890814 682882 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup. < 1391890816 214530 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.\ < 1391890823 566502 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has two hundred something btc in it. < 1391890846 910963 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if .01 btc is about twelve bucks, 1 btc is 1200 bucks. more than that cos of the other digits. that's not hard to grasp. < 1391890848 356487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't that like a hundred thousand dollars? < 1391890865 997611 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful, isn't it? < 1391890873 228009 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've taken in about $160,000 yeah < 1391890876 103371 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and paid out most of it < 1391890888 242654 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of how bitcoin works you can at least verify that everyone in the past has gotten paid back < 1391890894 587236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought that's the amount they kept for themselves < 1391890901 810997 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1391890920 797992 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of doubt anyone who'd set this up feels btc are worth it :p < 1391890926 89450 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can shorten this to use fewer than 29 parts < 1391890957 660693 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other thing to improve C would be to make "extern static" to be allowed, but I don't think any version of any C standard is allowing it. < 1391890991 454229 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a point that this might be a money laundering scheme < 1391890995 431982 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a sustainable one < 1391891005 676459 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typical laundry would pay back less that 100% of what you put in........... < 1391891041 213756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"butbuob: Show HN: Litecoin Ponzi Scheme written in Rust" < 1391891138 965018 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think GCC does but I don't know if it has the semantics you want < 1391891144 650371 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think "extern static" should mean < 1391891214 438949 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 BTC is like $700-800 now < 1391891217 407081 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not $1200,... < 1391891223 11879 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hit $1200 like /once/ < 1391891233 970791 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC has static inline and extern inline < 1391891246 125139 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the traditional GCC meaning of extern inline is the opposite of the C99 meaning :( < 1391891279 387452 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_________: are you faulting my awesome math < 1391891343 968088 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who was a huge jerk would point out that if .017 BTC = $12 then 1.7 BTC = $1200, and i rounded the wrong way. luckily we don't have any of those here. < 1391891388 143398 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh i can't figure out why this is segfaulting < 1391891404 15425 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get a backtrace from a debugger < 1391891424 378975 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nahhhhhh just segmentation fault (core dumped) < 1391891437 211164 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see what call causes it but i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong, is all < 1391891465 849512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the debugger might help you determine that < 1391891482 388255 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... gdb? < 1391891650 619485 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What does GCC do with it? < 1391891650 799101 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1391891660 125136 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb --args ./myprog whatever args < 1391891666 506559 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 'run' < 1391891677 889509 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it crashes you'll be back at the gdb prompt and you can type 'bt' for a backtrace < 1391891684 343146 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should also compile with -g and with no optimizations < 1391891701 116501 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary < 1391891707 221912 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i g uess i gotta learn gdb sometime < 1391891734 469549 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what does "extern static" do in GCC if anything, and what are the GCC and C99 meanings of "extern inline"? < 1391891784 408402 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2006-11/msg00006.html < 1391891802 256853 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah. gdb is super fancy but knowing how to do the 5 most basic things is very useful < 1391891839 626386 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: valgrind is also very useful for debugging memory errors in C, particularly in the cases where you *don't* get a crash or the crash happens a while after the incorrect memory use < 1391891858 886580 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, unsurprisingly, bt shows it's two levels deep in the opaque library < 1391891862 181094 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluh bluh < 1391891896 365673 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i'll stare at the api some more < 1391891989 983296 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: OK, and what for "extern static"? < 1391892013 984740 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I misremember and it's not allowed < 1391892040 250410 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah foo.c:1:1: error: multiple storage classes in declaration specifiers < 1391892043 661144 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you want extern static to do < 1391892047 319162 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would your "extern static" mean? < 1391892112 969621 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to export it but mangle it so that it doesn't interfere with other files having a function of the same name, but otherwise treat it as static < 1391892131 723329 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if the definition is not given, try to use an external one) < 1391892337 908904 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if there's no definition it links to the non-mangled name, but if it is defined it exports with a mangled name? < 1391892385 330660 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it uses the mangled name either way. < 1391892387 871119 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm in the market for a new GPU. For gaming mostly. Any recommendations wrt. Nvidia vs. AMD at this point? It doesn't matter when booting to windows, and I expect I will have to use the closed source drivers in either case under Linux for full functionality, so, which one is least shitty on Linux currently? < 1391892402 278944 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use AMD atm, and it works reasonably < 1391892418 620201 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it provides less performance than under windows in for example minecraft < 1391892459 466366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically the situation is that Nvidia care about their Linux drivers, AMD don't; however, the official Nvidia Linux drivers are both closed-source and excessively corporate < 1391892465 62607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they feel like a Windows program < 1391892467 566736 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so the mangling scheme is documented and the user is expected to sometimes declare functions using their mangled name elsewhere? < 1391892468 401808 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1391892475 762099 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems awkward < 1391892485 138178 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect AMD will be better for console ports in the future. < 1391892500 747783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also open source drivers for the nvidia drivers, which are missing quite a lot of functionality but otherwise work fine < 1391892502 147453 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, AMD is working for better open source support though, right? < 1391892511 691912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nvidia have been known to help them out from time to time < 1391892526 242387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: AMD's getting more open wrt source, but the drivers themselves are awful < 1391892537 482414 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the two biggest consoles are x86 machines with AMD APUs (which also means ports from consoles in the future are likely going to be more common in general) < 1391892541 650416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I do like the idea of a declaration that means "either a static in this compilation unit, or extern if none exists" < 1391892546 55245 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well they are pretty stable at least, they weren't a few years ago < 1391892563 49487 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe that's already what you get by declaring extern and defining static? is that allowed? < 1391892564 212860 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_________, yep. < 1391892583 380905 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it isn't < 1391892593 536973 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that could be useful to have library functions which can be overridden on a per-compilation-unit basis < 1391892603 157326 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see the point of exporting the overrides under mangled names < 1391892605 864874 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or at all) < 1391892615 973572 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an amd gpu and the proprietary drivers were kind of a pain to install, but now that i've done it i can play hl2 smoothly < 1391892636 685453 :itsy!~digital_w@79.251.125.91.dyn.plus.net PART :#esoteric < 1391892639 749809 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_________, why the excessive underscores btw? < 1391892644 426734 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pain to install" includes "i can't use xorg 15" < 1391892645 484149 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No you have to declare them using "extern static" elsewhere too, and then give the definition in a file. However you would need to know which file it belongs to if you want to mangle the name, so I have elsewhere wrote about a directive to do so. < 1391892652 88546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: e had two and I complained < 1391892666 906148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've probably just inspired em to add more < 1391892675 43887 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the most that will fit < 1391892679 211909 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1391892682 590568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, NVidia are probably the Apple of GPUs < 1391892691 544885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you mean < 1391892710 43561 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i looked at nvidia gpus but i looked at their cuda site and holy shit is it annoying < 1391892710 662299 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how/what/ < 1391892717 780185 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good basis for purchases) < 1391892723 138075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff mostly works an is high-quality, but doesn't have many user-servicable parts and you're relying on the company to keep doing updates < 1391892733 266217 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it is a way to make something like namespaces except that there is no interference with other namespaces having the same name. < 1391892735 480091 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, and AMD is what? < 1391892744 724363 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the same? < 1391892760 880615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: some weird generic brand name manufacturer you've never heard of but their stuff seems to work < 1391892772 798360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are loads of them in any electronics store < 1391892777 691832 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1391892836 514777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To set the record straight, while typedef indeed is ("for syntactic convenience only", C11 6.7.1p5) a storage-class specifier, and so is "static", "const" is not; it's a type qualifier instead. < 1391892891 362923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you can put consts in the middle of an expression and they change meaning depending on where they are < 1391892905 452414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, of a type < 1391892925 386319 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably it's also because they serve different functions. < 1391892945 638537 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized something. records are circular < 1391893006 703619 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Speaking of photography, I tried to do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RevLensMac.png today, but as I'm missing an adapter ring (the one I ordered was broken) I had to do it with a less then optimal pair of lenses, and the end results... leave something to be desired: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140208-pi2.jpg < 1391893096 912998 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting, but who was speaking of photography? ;P < 1391893114 507433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm sure we were, at some point during the preceding year or so. < 1391893119 950223 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right < 1391893126 116206 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also what is the thing on the left? < 1391893151 475527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the surface of one of the ICs. < 1391893191 566335 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1391893198 60464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140208-pi3.jpg is how close I can get with the regular lenses, and I think that closeup is from the four R15 resistors and that Samsung chip there. < 1391893207 695972 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the benefit of doing this reverse lens thing? I never heard of it before < 1391893231 884209 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lots of magnification without having to get a proper "macro" lens that can focus real close. < 1391893266 574432 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Also I would suggesting using a smaller shutter perhaps? < 1391893272 478939 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :The focus is *very* narrow < 1391893301 356044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Stopping down the aperture kept increasing the amount of vignetting, sadly. < 1391893338 97443 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean the black circle thing or normal vignetting? < 1391893345 60070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The black circle. < 1391893347 942930 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1391893353 131676 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a bummer < 1391893381 249236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it should work better with a large-aperture lens as the reversed one, but I couldn't use the one I have because of that missing adapter ring. < 1391893389 594369 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1391893422 220903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the whole contraption was something like at least half a metre long, and my tiny mini-tripod just couldn't hold it up. And it could focus only something like 1-3 cm away from the end of the reversed lens. So it wasn't exactly a practical thing. < 1391893426 227054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun, though. < 1391893445 582216 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1391893457 447775 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah a larger tripod might be a good idea < 1391893551 382251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a regular tripod, but I couldn't maneuver it close enough to the TV stand I had the RPi on, because of the legs. (And when I tried to "tilt" it by making one leg longer, it started to fall over.) < 1391893560 913355 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this e-mount macro lens is $300 :/ < 1391893577 877015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I'll experiment more when I get a non-broken ring, it should be in the mail. < 1391893602 262934 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably get an adapter and some cheaper macro lens though, but I'm such a lazy noob that I probably wouldn't use it right < 1391893625 557347 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mushrooms have such nice details to capture < 1391893635 503883 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't you extend/retract the legs on your tripod? Or did that not help either? < 1391893642 189367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, this reddit thread is really confusing me: http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/1xa9rj/i_have_been_writing_a_pseudoroguelike_mmorpg_with/ < 1391893648 478356 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any gamepad for use with my computer; if I did then I might design some two-player Famicom game using it, and in fact I have a idea of such a thing too: It is something like a Pokemon battle game, but there is some differences for example there is only eight element types (all balanced), and you can attack only one at a time but can switch your primary/secondary as you attack. < 1391893668 403975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did anyone think it was a good idea to write an MMO where you fight monsters by editing Clojure code using regexes? < 1391893678 439501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have found an audience, anyway < 1391893688 992912 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The eight element types are: North, South, Alien, Magic, Air, Insect, Slime, Abnormal. < 1391893701 766719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: An "extension tube" (that basically just moves the lens and therefore lowers the minimum focus distance) is often a pretty cheap option, I believe. (It doesn't get to as large magnifications as a macro lens, and you need to get closer, but at least it's just an empty tube and therefore often reasonably priced.) < 1391893725 160965 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1391893764 615009 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And same type attack bonus not only gives bonus to damage but gives a bonus to priority as well. < 1391893775 190264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Or so I've read, anyway. My father's got some M42 mount lenses and an extension tube set from the 1960s-1970s, I've been thinking of getting a $7 M42-to-EF adapter and borrowing those. < 1391893811 5632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's some of that in the latest Pokémon game, in X/Y there's a Flying Pokémon that gets a priority boost on Flying moves < 1391893814 336962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really powerful ability < 1391893849 285648 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it overriding speed or adding to the speed, and how much? < 1391893863 127535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At level 0, you will only be able to match and substitute up to 10 characters, and you won't yet have access to []+*|)( and other regular expression "sigils." You can see that even with the most basic monster, it will take conscious effort to figure out useful spells to cast." < 1391893867 154734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it adds 1 priority < 1391893881 116309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the difference between Tackle and Quick Attack, or Quick Attack and Extremespeed < 1391893912 744931 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My way is adding 2 speed rather than 1 priority, and applies to all types/attacks. < 1391893954 880552 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wait, really? Jeeze, that is quite powerful. < 1391893957 948357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 speed as in speed points on the status screen (that's hardly anything)? or as in 2 stages (i.e. Agility)? < 1391893971 282999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, very powerful, I can see why it's limited to one Pokémon < 1391893976 153790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in two points on the status screen < 1391893987 374085 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, this is before stages are applied. < 1391894040 147995 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the speed is 0 to 245, and up to ten can be added due to bonuses so it is 255 at maximum. < 1391894051 34159 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cripes. Hidden ability Talonflame is crazy then. < 1391894066 18342 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What does that one do? < 1391894087 217262 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:f790:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly what we've been talking about. Flying moves get a priority boost. < 1391894087 516808 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : why did anyone think it was a good idea to write an MMO where you fight monsters by editing Clojure code using regexes? <-- that sounds amusing for 5 minutes < 1391894097 492792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK < 1391894303 309298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently they want to commercially release this, and quite a few people are saying "that sounds interesting" despite it not being on a programming-based subreddit < 1391894311 297589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a monthly fee for playing < 1391894331 796339 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eeh, I'm not sure that would work out. As a free game jam thingy? Sure < 1391894341 974354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: neither am I < 1391894349 813539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sense I /want/ to see it work out because it's so unusual < 1391894360 157853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't expect it to < 1391894387 934951 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Well yes, but I wouldn't want to play it myself. It sounds way too much like work to me these days. I have been coding much less in my spare time recently, doing other stuff instead < 1391894416 394088 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a thing you described with using regex to fight, seem like not so good as it is written but perhaps made as a single-player puzzle game, may be interesting. < 1391894434 957922 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1391894435 579284 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where, any level is fixed based on the puzzle and not based on your level) < 1391894804 267225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, almost forgot to mention, I also did a moon comparison thing: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140206-mooncomp.jpg < 1391894953 89660 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfaults are so fucking frustrating < 1391894962 630562 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: and yet they're pretty much the best case outcome < 1391894963 564678 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1391894982 846756 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, new/old as in? < 1391894983 403837 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to scribbling all over ram? < 1391895003 3696 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a segfault is a memory handling mistake which happened to be caught by the hardware / OS < 1391895004 147086 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1391895015 961727 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though it could be the consequence of another mistake which was not) < 1391895035 40284 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, unless of course it segfaults in a different location every time. In which case you might have a threading issue or some sort of heap corruption or... < 1391895054 804332 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Old and new camera. Old picture was from 2009, and it's entirely coincidental that the moon phase is such a close match, I hadn't even looked at the old picture before taking the new one. < 1391895080 571020 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why the colour difference? Camera or atmospheric conditions? < 1391895125 880023 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it what did i do wrong < 1391895186 286502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Possibly both. The old one was not terribly good when it came to white balance. (Especially the AWB, so I may have had it set to some suboptimal preset.) < 1391895218 501071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should be recorded in the Exif data. < 1391895283 533264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"White Balance: Daylight". Well, it's... reflected daylight? < 1391895308 372506 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my old camera (which is my current camera that is) has a button to set the white balance from a neutral color you put in front of it < 1391895349 89746 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x9gue/my_protest_at_mtgox_offices_5_to_7th_february/ < 1391895352 112967 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was told that up until a few weeks [at time of the interview] ago, there was hardly any development environment to test changes. Most changes were done straight on the production environment. Typing this made me throw up in my mouth." < 1391895454 846671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Both "old" and "new" can do custom white balance, and I used to use it quite a lot with the old one, though (somewhat disappointingly) the workflow to do so is less practical in the new one. (Old one has a menu option to take a custom-WB shot; for new one you need to take a picture, and *then* go to a menu and select that picture as source for custom WB.) < 1391895464 678354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder what a "Light Source: Fine Weather" Exif entry means. < 1391895480 590085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are any weather sensors in the camera. < 1391895536 606303 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be a redundant way to say "White Balance: Daylight". < 1391895549 869250 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if MtGox collapses and there's panic selling maybe I should buy some Bitcoins finally < 1391895561 5735 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're only 20% of the bitcoin-to-real-money market now: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/ < 1391895632 632418 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1391895638 945741 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch. Mine just has a button that greys out everything except the center of the display, and then when you release it, it takes a photo and uses the area in the middle as the reference < 1391895643 305986 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :works really well < 1391895648 385969 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol they call real money "fiat" < 1391895663 742842 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiat is a reasonable name for fiat money < 1391895676 85750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitcoin is even more fiat than fiat, though < 1391895676 939939 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a technical term... < 1391895680 445444 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_________: you've grown a long tail since I last saw you < 1391895693 715999 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: depends who's doing the fiat-ing, I suppose < 1391895694 317770 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: depends on the definition, I think < 1391895702 626829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but by at least one of the common definitions < 1391895710 466188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's approximately how it worked in the old one, though you navigated a menu to get there. (Also you could select one out of two slots to save the custom balance as.) < 1391895723 508047 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make that definition broad enough, you could shove gold into the fiat designation too < 1391895726 804323 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1391895729 274076 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1391895730 796837 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I love to do, honestly) < 1391895795 11249 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if you decide to buy and want to do it OTC with someone, let me know and I can probably help you find a counterparty (might end up being cheaper with less hassle than an exchange) < 1391895795 520696 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, also cars. *hides* < 1391895798 993883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from industrial uses, it depends on whether you think the human aesthetic / cultural appreciation of gold is more "real" than the value of dollars < 1391895804 13030 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: haha okay < 1391895833 178132 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even charge fees! >_> < 1391895852 339457 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can't charge much fee as an OTC matchmaker who doesn't assume counterparty risk ;P < 1391895859 449778 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1391895873 890302 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I can set you up with the most trustworthy people in the community! what's not to love! < 1391895876 884521 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1391895879 38361 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1391895879 502423 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i see is fire and void < 1391895884 977630 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm kidding, of course :P < 1391895916 448087 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also been known to escrow for people to do that sort of stuff < 1391895919 552917 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do OTC BTC-USD transactions typically happen through escrow? < 1391895921 219345 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1391895926 244322 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends < 1391895938 177429 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like getting scammed, go for an unauthenticated stranger < 1391895944 340750 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lots of people do that) < 1391895971 796630 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more savvy tend to just go with reputable people and the less reputable of the pair sends first < 1391895976 802440 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1391895977 702465 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even more savvy will go with escrow < 1391896016 568264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be some sort of cryptographically sound way to exchange arbitrary cryptocoins with each other even if they're on different chains < 1391896094 498334 :elliott_________!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :USD isn't a cryptocurrency < 1391896109 517392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1391896120 388243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :credit cards are, though < 1391896125 546491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a very good cryptocurrency, though < 1391896162 209193 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i googled for an opencl irc channel and it's all bitcoin mining < 1391896180 310561 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1391896203 768290 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh? < 1391896210 265214 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it work < 1391896244 203361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, but I guess I have a "this should be cryptographically possible" sense that's comparable to my "this should be TC" sense < 1391896247 958189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not 100% reliable < 1391896259 324923 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :have y'all played flappy bird? < 1391896275 891358 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WHAT IS THAT AND WHY IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT IT < 1391896300 644781 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculously hard game < 1391896300 824494 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/02/the-squalid-grace-of-flappy-bird/283526/ < 1391896303 776401 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1391896305 81630 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD-nzHy2DdU < 1391896310 626328 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hard in an interesting way < 1391896344 59265 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to read this article or watch a video or whatever and think "ok then, fuck this" and go back to something practical like making your program segfault a hundred times < 1391896404 950728 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or read an IRC message < 1391896416 646060 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a prodigy < 1391896614 423572 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.metalair.org/decentralised-cryptocurrency-exchange/ is trying to do it but they won't share their design work so far < 1391896726 386612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: re your original bitcoin link, the hilarious thing is the way that people keep on trying to confirm/deny the story via reference to hitherto unmentioned third party X, and third party X turns up to confirm that their involvement in it is genuine < 1391896735 809853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the entire community are reading that reddit thread < 1391896739 125441 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh true < 1391896739 305148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually pretty believable < 1391896800 421544 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real useful post is gmaxwell's contribution < 1391896802 862353 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that protest thing < 1391896806 623082 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that might be useful too < 1391896809 481578 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which link was that? < 1391896816 879338 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was mostly amused by the horror story of interviewing there < 1391896824 79843 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x93tf/some_irc_chatter_about_what_is_going_on_at_mtgox/cf99yac < 1391896835 648048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not the one copumpkin linked < 1391896851 426282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about 1 and a half screenfuls ago on my screen, kmc linked it < 1391896853 784047 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one, http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x9gue/my_protest_at_mtgox_offices_5_to_7th_february/ < 1391896857 786229 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but read mine too < 1391896870 266573 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1391897200 892534 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so one simple approach is that the two parties take turns exchanging small quantities of money until the whole transfer is consummated < 1391897292 102854 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be pretty slow with existing cryptocurrencies < 1391897435 803166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone developed a bitcoin mixer that doesn't require any of the participants to trust any of the others < 1391897441 94532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that might require protocol adpatations < 1391897443 103441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adaptations < 1391897593 682241 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zerocoin was originally designed as that, yeah, and it does require protocol changes < 1391897606 335454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1391897619 435170 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's going to be a separate currency because in the words of the designer, "If people will put money into Dogecoin, they’ll put it into anything" < 1391897632 718318 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a new cryptocurrency with true anonymity < 1391897634 892918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the designer is probably correct there < 1391897657 563154 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also know about a Bitcoin mixer that ran for a while using RSA blind signing < 1391897686 360165 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you still trust the central party not to take your money, but they can't reveal which coins were exchanged for which, even under torture / subpoena < 1391897712 853247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, for everyone who was wondering why imgur didn't work on my computer no matter which browser I was using, and continued to not work even when I accessed the internet from a hotel in France < 1391897726 402965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eventually discovered it was due to an entry I'd added in the hosts file that had gone out of date < 1391897732 471769 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here's another design http://blog.ezyang.com/2012/07/secure-multiparty-bitcoin-anonymization/ < 1391897735 627403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's somewhere to check next time < 1391897772 457892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been back when the DNS was being buggy < 1391897798 273406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-57-25.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you able to make some more Attribute Zone levels if I have made up the program? < 1391898392 950443 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ponzi.io is doing pretty well < 1391898404 371215 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the day we had bitcoinduit which worked the same way < 1391898548 552048 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends in 10000 coins < 1391901525 817490 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :after much wailing and mashing of teeth i have written a gpgpu program < 1391901541 367666 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1391901570 235528 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last time I did that was in 2007, back when you still had to pretend that your data represented red, green, blue values in a texture < 1391901586 353592 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure this means i'm basically a bitcoin trillionaire already < 1391901593 907551 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym dogecoin < 1391901630 213047 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it called "digging" or something with dogecoin < 1391901995 664893 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1391902691 153219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1391902773 265078 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how WebCL is going.. < 1391902820 739443 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, so you can mine from firefox? < 1391902859 680565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully the cryptocoin craze will lead to actual useful developments in GPGPU technology < 1391902872 188366 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no < 1391902881 378345 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can play with the GPU from JS < 1391902906 52113 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for purposes other than mining *coins < 1391902912 830592 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what < 1391902928 570823 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :raytracing or something < 1391902935 565421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :games that run entirely on the GPU? < 1391902943 486282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have massively parallel control of thousands of characters < 1391902950 426814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be good for collision processing too < 1391902950 665679 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :general purpose game processing unit < 1391902959 929442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part would be screen transitions < 1391903958 434245 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a22a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric