00:00:04 <boily> Taneb: it's a traditional French luck wish. it comes from theatre actors.
00:00:49 <Taneb> That is just plausible enough for me to quaver in my disbelief
00:01:05 <boily> from fr.wikipedia.org → « Je vous dis merde » -- bonne chance, surtout avant une performance. Expression typiquement employée en France pour encourager la personne qui entre en scène, ou avant un examen.
00:01:56 <Taneb> boily, hmm, you seem to be not lying.
00:02:33 <Taneb> Although in English at least, I would be somewhat surprised if someone said "shit!" when trying to wish someone luck
00:02:54 <kmc> what's the literal translation?
00:03:12 <boily> kmc: fr:merde → en:shit.
00:03:16 <kmc> i meant of the phrase
00:03:49 <kmc> oh it's just like "I tell you"?
00:03:58 <kmc> this doesn't make any sense
00:04:11 <HackEgo> curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information
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00:04:17 <boily> kmc: it's an apocryphal reference to a French general. it doesn't make sense.
00:04:56 <boily> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Cambronne
00:05:50 <int-e> `` curl -I google.com
00:05:51 <HackEgo> Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server
00:08:23 <kmc> HackEgo doesn't have direct network access
00:08:33 <oerjan> int-e: you need to use `fetch
00:08:49 <boily> `curl 96.127.250.15
00:08:49 <HackEgo> Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server
00:10:03 <int-e> (sounds like an ok name for an esolang)
00:10:22 <boily> int-e: “break a leg”?
00:11:37 <oerjan> i cannot remember the spot where the repository stopped updating. i hope it wasn't more than 7 weeks ago.
00:12:56 <oerjan> if `pastelogs was working, i could have grepped for when i started complaining.
00:12:57 <boily> what happened 7 weeks ago? a zombie outbreak?
00:13:05 <oerjan> boily: possibly nothing
00:13:20 <boily> zombie outbreak. I stand by my theory.
00:14:31 <oerjan> i see people doing `paste commands, but i cannot tell whether they actually got to see the results
00:16:24 <oerjan> also the repository "helpfully" starts saying N weeks ago instead of N days ago once you go past 13 days.
00:17:04 <oerjan> i can click on a change to get a more accurate date.
00:18:17 <oerjan> ok that allowed me to find a spot in the logs where `pastelogs was definitely working.
00:20:19 <boily> is 30 December already 7 weeks ago?
00:21:35 * boily feels temporally sea-sick.
00:21:47 <oerjan> let's hope it's temporary
00:24:02 <oerjan> <Taneb> SO CLOSE <-- which reminds me that i learned from the newspaper today that the latest justin bieber replacement around these parts is a finn named elliot.
00:25:23 <boily> oerjan: a one-T elliott?
00:25:42 <oerjan> yes, i think so, it was definitely not the same spelling.
00:25:54 <oerjan> also it was the surname. and possibly a stage name.
00:27:24 <oerjan> isac elliot lundén, says norwegian wikipedia.
00:28:09 <oerjan> ok there's an english too, why doesn't google show it...
00:30:52 <kmc> huh rustpkg was deprecated and removed last month
00:31:39 <oerjan> how _does_ google manage not to show an english wikipedia hit in its first 7 pages of hits...
00:32:00 <boily> the Google Bubble Struggle strikes again with No Non-Norwegian Regurgitated Recumbent Results.
00:32:05 <oerjan> (the norwegian wikipedia hit is first, so presumably that has something to do with it.)
00:32:24 <boily> oerjan: on my phone, I can't get un-French wikipédia results.
00:32:56 <oerjan> no wait, third hit. but still.
00:33:31 <boily> oerjan: yup. it's infuriating.
00:34:02 -!- augur has joined.
00:34:44 <oerjan> maybe it's the OQLF's doing...
00:35:24 <boily> I wouldn't be surprised. those OQLF miscreants...
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00:37:12 <oerjan> searching for "geiranger" gave no en.wikipedia hit on the first page, although "fridtjof nansen" gave no and en as the two top hits, so it's not _always_ the case that norwegian stuff gets no english hits.
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00:37:45 <oerjan> (this is on my laptop.)
00:39:18 <oerjan> boily: does this hold even if the french wikipedia has no article on the subject?
00:39:37 <boily> oerjan: let me check...
00:39:45 <boily> (hm. I need something unfrench...)
00:40:15 <kmc> shachaf: https://github.com/michaelwoerister/rs-persistent-datastructures "In conclusion, even with (atomic, multithreaded) refcounting a HAMT can perform pretty well :)"
00:40:19 <kmc> I had wondered about that!
00:40:41 <boily> oerjan: it has a French version, but we'll see...
00:41:02 <kmc> though it's not clear if there are any multithreaded performance numbers
00:41:12 <boily> ah bin torieux. first hit is fr:, and second is en:.
00:42:00 <boily> it looks awfully like «sucre à la crème».
00:42:36 <oerjan> guess which language google translate thinks "ah bin torieux" is for me
00:43:50 <boily> qc:"ah bin torieux" → en:"well, I'll be damned"
00:44:15 -!- augur has joined.
00:44:32 <boily> oerjan: here it says it's French, and won't translate it.
00:44:57 <oerjan> maybe it's always in your own language
00:45:10 <oerjan> like gin and tonic in the hitchhiker's guide
00:45:31 <boily> hm. speaking of gin tonic, I'll go make one...
00:45:38 <oerjan> also i strongly doubt sucre à la crème tastes the same
00:47:37 <boily> they both have dairy products in them!
00:51:42 <oerjan> "In January 2013, the Bratli Tunnel at Tysfjord was damaged when a lorry load of caramelised brunost caught fire. The high concentration of fat and sugar in the cheese caused it to burn fiercely at sufficiently high temperatures that the fire was still burning five days later."
00:52:22 <oerjan> somehow i didn't pick that one up before
01:02:34 <HackEgo> 1126) <Taneb> kmc, I was trying to go to a sci-fi and fantasy society social, and I went to the wrong bar <Taneb> Wound up at my university's fetish society <Taneb> Didn't realise for an hour and a half
01:02:39 <Taneb> Sometimes I worry about myself
01:03:42 <kmc> what do you worry
01:03:51 <boily> Taneb, I do have to say, that's my favourite quote about you.
01:04:04 <Taneb> That my life is a series of really boring misadventures
01:04:59 <Taneb> Also that I am a terrible judge of how people are socialing?
01:05:24 <boily> no, it's just that I'm addicted to surreal-slice-of-life tidbits. like, Hidamari Sketch happening IRL.
01:05:47 <Taneb> boily, I meant that in response to kmc
01:06:45 <Taneb> Anyway, I'm looking forward to the Guardians of the Galaxy movie
01:11:02 <HackEgo> 392) <Taneb> Cut to February <Taneb> War were declared <Taneb> A galaxy in turmoil <Taneb> Anyway, Febuary '10
01:12:02 <kmc> Taneb: I would not expect sf/f and fetish people to have particularly different modes of socializing when they're not actually doing their respective hobbies
01:12:14 <Taneb> kmc, that is part of the confusion
01:12:15 <kmc> in fact i would expect it to be a lot of the same people in both groups
01:12:26 <Taneb> Also, one of them was wearing a Star Wars t-shirt
01:12:30 <kmc> "BDSM is just a kind of LARP"
01:13:01 <Taneb> `learn BDSM is just a kind of LARP
01:13:22 <Taneb> Please do not say that I invented it
01:13:24 <augur> BDSM definitely isnt a kind of LARP
01:13:51 <boily> I won't add that one until someone finds something better. nah!
01:13:59 <kmc> Taneb: can I say that you invented Star Wars?
01:14:05 <kmc> `? Star Wars
01:14:16 <boily> oh, the inception of another tanebvention?
01:14:24 <Taneb> `learn BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it.
01:14:36 <boily> (btw, I think I gave commit access to a bunch of y'all to the Wisdoms...)
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01:14:47 <kmc> how/where?
01:15:06 <Taneb> I definitely have access
01:15:12 <kmc> hub of the gits.
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01:16:22 <kmc> i'm @kmcallister
01:16:28 <kmc> on the githubs
01:16:58 <kmc> i didn't get an email or anything
01:17:23 <boily> also, I can't remember who sheganinans is.
01:17:49 <boily> anyone here from latvia and/or lithuania?
01:23:38 <HackEgo> mandercoin rocecoin sixturecoin uñarcoin beacrippcoin whencoin ketcoin delatecoin bodningynercoin proacoin prefixedlycoin mazecoin 2docoin hearvacoin vershakecoin discoin clracoin marcoin ludecoin chromerufacoin
01:26:04 <metasepia> CYUL 200100Z 29005KT 15SM FEW045 OVC070 M01/M03 A2972 RMK SC2AC6 SLP066
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01:26:14 <boily> darn. missed the Negative Cow Club.
01:41:25 <oerjan> <boily> anyone here from latvia and/or lithuania? <-- hm i think i saw someone...
01:43:09 <oerjan> oh and e had a real name ending in -is, and was surprised i didn't guess greek, like most do.
01:44:07 <oerjan> Gregor: all this could be confirmed easily if `pastelogs were working hth
01:44:19 <oerjan> (what do you mean i never stop nagging)
01:45:42 -!- ping has joined.
01:46:02 <oerjan> hm jix does but it wasn't him
01:46:09 <oerjan> (and i think he's german anyhow)
01:46:11 -!- ping has changed nick to Guest14054.
01:48:40 <oerjan> oh i think it must be CADD_
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01:49:22 <boily> CADD_: are you yourself?
01:49:28 -!- Guest14054 has changed nick to ^v.
01:49:59 <oerjan> 9 days idle, that's something.
01:50:09 <boily> oerjan: I now have a Greek coworker, and both his first and last names end in -os.
01:50:25 <boily> @tell CADD_ are you yourself, or are you someone else who is you?
01:50:43 <oerjan> boily: that's also an option, yes. i'm not sure about lithuanian though, i think they're more -as.
01:51:07 <boily> I always get confused between the two.
01:51:18 <oerjan> anyway, those are both indoeuropean languages that have preserved original final -s in many places.
01:52:07 <oerjan> also latvian i think, but they tend to live off the intermediate vowel.
01:53:23 <oerjan> the icelandic -r is also from that.
01:54:11 <boily> fizzie: fizziello. can you update the fizziegraphs please? I'm curious to see how my new schedulesoteric looks.
01:54:21 <oerjan> (it was supposedly -z in protogermanic.)
01:58:04 <oerjan> i think it's the diphtongs that clue me in to CADD_ not being greek, in particularly the "au" which isn't in greek at all.
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02:00:54 <boily> well. /whois matches CADD_ over to sheganinans, so it is him.
02:03:42 <oerjan> i think agatha's (lack of) plan at girl genius may be going downhill.
02:11:23 <boily> I can't relate (yet).
02:11:44 <oerjan> well i'm a little antsy about it.
02:12:21 <oerjan> (i'm referring to the current intermission story btw)
02:12:56 * boily needs to find a bit of paper to make a todo list to write down a todo list to catch up on GG.
02:16:25 <boily> meanwhile, Japan lives in a different world. http://youtu.be/Xdzkwo9XA7s#t=12
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02:19:58 <Taneb> boily, I dunno, some British ads are pretty weird, I just think these are devoid of cultural context
02:21:30 <oerjan> also norwegian ones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df_EdfcFfFg
02:21:33 <boily> we have boring ads. they are internationally known for their uncreativity and deoriginalness.
02:23:37 <boily> it's written Fjordland and it's pronounced “fyoolan”.
02:23:46 <boily> (sorry, no IPA IME on that machine.)
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02:24:30 <oerjan> well the d is silent and the rdl is a retroflex l
02:24:50 * boily gags on retroflexes
02:25:01 <oerjan> stay away from norway and sweden then.
02:25:44 <oerjan> i guess technically both d's are silent, they often are at the end of syllables
02:26:06 <oerjan> while r+dental = retroflex is a regular phonological process
02:27:08 <oerjan> (sometimes even across words)
02:27:30 <oerjan> well i guess a french speaker won't find that particularly weird.
02:27:32 <boily> what was that verb again, quaver?
02:27:57 <boily> quintopia: quinthellopia! not for long. my mattress is trying to seduce me.
02:28:10 * boily quavers in fear at Norwegian.
02:28:34 * boily reflexively mapoles at oerjan in self-defense
02:29:03 * oerjan calmly swats boily -----###
02:29:20 * boily is put in a cozy coma
02:29:31 <boily> 'night all! be back tomorrow!
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02:30:43 <oerjan> lesson 386: don't remind people they should be sleeping when you want them to stay.
02:31:46 <oerjan> hm in afterthought that was a rather lousy attempt at thinking of a random number.
02:32:18 <quintopia> no worries, he'll be back tomorrow while i'm at work
02:41:19 <Taneb> Does python 2 have anything similar to Haskell's Data.List.nub?
02:45:51 <ion> taneb: Do you need to preserve the order? You could convert to a set.
02:46:06 <Taneb> ion, that is one option
02:46:16 <Taneb> I think a better option in this case is realised I don't actually need to
02:46:41 <ion> Or perhaps an OrderedDict with dummy values.
03:00:30 <HackEgo> soncoin thogiccoin niccoin mieldinginheacoin baggramsendercoin roculicoin renamocoin anycoin dnvcoin autcoin entcoin volungcoin beltinycoin kipcoin unvuchcoin hexcoin pascoin amothecoin nouvenbanjcoin dimefticoin
03:00:37 <kmc> oh, /me forgot what nub does
03:00:58 <copumpkin> we need to get kmc sucked back into haskell
03:04:23 <HackEgo> ruicoin difyinguecoin catcoin lekitcoin blouxcoin bioulcoin bildesiscoin homcoin bam1281coin sylcoin codecoin isockcoin alighcoin sientacoin zentercoin burgcoin hsemcoin gesankcoin tinycoin poundedcoin
03:06:04 <kmc> another fun thing about the programs compiled to use no registers (besides the fact that they don't use registers) is that almost all data is stored as pointers to code
03:06:41 <kmc> and many of the pointers to code live inside code
03:11:29 <quintopia> what's the face-first sledding event called
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03:21:34 <kmc> wikipedia says 'tis
03:21:54 <kmc> luge is butt-first
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04:08:54 <HackEgo> graysixcoin avitantcoin codecoin velatefuchcoin whenemcoin eniguocoin illcoin lafferecoin 988582.1coin anoisccoin allycoin chlunkcoin torthejmcoin rsthamcoin ethcoin lioncoin mourgcoin dotcoin theocoin reactcoin
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04:27:42 <Gracenotes> help. my vim muscle memory is useless now that I got a radial head fracture and can only use my left hand
04:28:00 <kmc> what happened?
04:28:43 <Gracenotes> fell on an outstretched hand when going downhill forwards fast turned into going downhills sideways fast
04:29:20 <kmc> sorry to hear it
04:29:32 <oerjan> oh wait radial head fractures have nothing to do with the head
04:29:53 * kmc was similarly confused
04:30:03 <Gracenotes> so in 2-3 weeks my vim-fu will be more powerful than ever before
04:30:15 <Bike> note to self: stop assuming brain damage
04:30:20 <Gracenotes> yeah... it is confusing... broken elbow though
04:30:42 <Gracenotes> (or always assume brain damage, just to be safe?)
04:31:04 <oerjan> always aim for the head
04:32:12 * oerjan subtle checks Gracenotes for zombie symptoms
04:33:48 <oerjan> wait i shouldn't be speaking i have a zombie tooth from another bike accident.
04:34:42 <kmc> Gracenotes: that's just enough time to learn Left-Handed Dvorak
04:35:20 <Gracenotes> hah. then it will be impossible to switch to two-handed Dvorak
04:35:39 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1
04:35:50 <oerjan> clearly what you do is learn left-handed _and_ right-handed dvorak.
04:36:37 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lkjhgfdsa i wonder why this is set up
04:41:25 <Gracenotes> and it is unforgiving. "Sorry, your program is literally syntactically incomprehensible because you forgot a trailing comma on your array"
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04:56:41 <HackEgo> castyningcoin locodevillcoin lotheccoin tegroscoin ctoncoin facecoin minimacoin metricoin wlicoin xenthingcoin squiessorcoin prefecoin ovenicoin colacoin odynredgrcoin hssadcoin ijtcoin revavecoin wherecoin thratcoin
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05:06:49 <kmc> earlier today I said "there can even be multiple NP algorithms for the same problem which use the cert in different ways"
05:07:24 <kmc> (in a discussion about how having a P algorithm doesn't mean you can find a cert for each NP algorithm)
05:07:32 <kmc> but I wonder if there are any particularly interesting examples of this
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05:19:02 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primality_certificate describes two different kinds
05:19:49 <oerjan> um a P algorithm for _what_?
05:19:59 <kmc> for the same problem
05:20:30 <Taneb> I have been awake way too long
05:20:40 <Taneb> Actually, only 17 hours
05:20:48 <oerjan> a P algorithm for an NP-complete problem certainly gives you the ability to compute certificates for any NP problem.
05:21:00 <kmc> I didn't say NP-complete.
05:22:06 <kmc> for example compositeness is in NP, with certificate being the factorization, and compositeness is in P (AKS test), but AKS doesn't give you a factoring algorithm (which is believed to not be in P)
05:22:07 <Bike> are there sets of equivalent problems known to be in NP but not NP-compltee
05:22:10 <oerjan> Taneb: wait aren't you sleeping already
05:22:26 <Taneb> I really really should be
05:22:29 <kmc> Bike: what do you mean by "sets of equivalent problems"
05:22:52 <Bike> i dunno. you can "reduce" np-complete problems to other np-complete problems, right
05:23:23 <kmc> (you can reduce any problem in np to any np-complete problem)
05:23:37 <oerjan> Bike: i think the set equivalent to graph isomorphism gets some study for example, that's believed to be between P and NP-complete (but not proved)
05:24:43 <oerjan> not even proved conditionally on P != NP, although there are some problems that are
05:24:48 <kmc> cool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_isomorphism_problem#GI-complete_and_GI-hard_problems
05:25:17 <^v> anyone made an IRC bot in brainfuck yet?
05:25:33 <^v> C2BF is cheating btw
05:25:51 <kmc> google says yes
05:27:06 <oerjan> kmc: btw iirc there's an NP-complete problem related to factorization: whether a number has a factor in an interval
05:27:45 <oerjan> although that's mostly due to the possibility of large number of factors, even if you know a complete prime factorization it's still hard
05:29:20 -!- tertu has joined.
05:29:40 <oerjan> (it's like similar to subset sum)
05:30:03 <kmc> oerjan: interesting
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05:30:52 <kmc> it's hard even if you know a factorization because you have to check it? and search it?
05:37:40 <kmc> and can you explain how it's like subset sum
05:38:09 <oerjan> it's hard because a hard part of the problem is, like with subset sum, to choose how many of which prime factors to include to get the product in the right range.
05:38:30 <oerjan> so after you've got a prime factorization, it's basically "subset product"
05:39:13 <kmc> oh, it's not whether the number has a *prime* factor in range
05:39:16 <kmc> that makes a lot more sense
05:39:29 <oerjan> subset sum requires exact equality.
05:40:10 <kmc> subset sum and subset product should be equivalent right? by the power of logarithms or something
05:40:35 <kmc> well how small is the range allowed to be for this factor-in-range problem?
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05:40:53 <kmc> oh but if it's too small then you can just do trial division.
05:40:57 <kmc> good morning zzo38
05:40:59 <kmc> how are yoU?
05:41:12 <oerjan> oh i guess it's more like knapsack.
05:41:15 <zzo38> I am OK but is not morning time in here
05:41:36 <Taneb> It is rapidly approaching morning time here and I have forgotten to sleep
05:42:25 <Taneb> Live esolang creation in 14 hours
05:42:59 <Taneb> Alas, it will not be streamed
05:43:08 <oerjan> kmc: the problem with logarithms is you cannot get them to be integers in a way that works for this problem
05:43:10 <kmc> do you know what kind you will create?
05:43:14 <kmc> oerjan: ah
05:43:20 <Taneb> I have a sort of vague idea
05:43:45 <oerjan> (if every logarithm is an integer to some base, then the original number is a prime power)
05:44:03 <oerjan> *logarithm of a prime factor
05:45:22 <zzo38> I don't care if it is streamed, but will it be written down? I would like to see what is written down for such thing, if you have any.
05:46:58 <Taneb> It will be recorded
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06:21:59 <Sgeo> If I want to pay for a game, but I don't trust them to handle my financial data securely, but they offer a way to pay via check, having my bank mail a check should be safe, right?
06:22:49 <Bike> what if they erase the number with lasers and make you pay a million dolalrs
06:23:02 <kmc> checks in the US banking system are like the least secure thing in the world
06:23:12 <kmc> every check contains all the information you need to withdraw any amount of money from that account.
06:23:34 <Bike> um kmc, i think you'll find my checks are printed on weird paper,
06:23:44 <kmc> the banking system is not really based on secrets and authentication; rather it's based on fraud detection, liability, and rollback
06:23:59 <pikhq_> Bike: Which is not even a requirement.
06:23:59 <Bike> wait, where the hell is my checkbook
06:24:10 <Bike> sgeo did you steal it
06:24:17 <pikhq_> You can stick the routing info on a fucking cow and it's a valid check.
06:24:19 <kmc> Sgeo: you can buy a prepaid debit card at a convenience store
06:24:32 <Sgeo> kmc: was thinking of doing that until I noticed the 'pay by check' option
06:25:00 <Sgeo> I don't think the company is evil. They're just incompetent. If that matters. (They store passwords as plaintext for example0
06:25:17 <Bike> i've never written a check anyway, i just enter a ten digit number and then a three digit number into a net form
06:25:28 <Sgeo> Literally 1995-era security
06:25:38 <Bike> the paychecks i got before were labeled with something saying not to accept them if they weren't in green ink
06:26:06 <kmc> hey unix had crypt() in 1995
06:27:19 <Bike> yeah sgeo said "1995-era" though.
06:28:16 <Sgeo> $24 for 12 months of being able to have a 3d avatar, yay
06:28:25 <pikhq_> Yep, crypt() was in System V.
06:28:36 <pikhq_> Apparently Enigma-based though?
06:29:07 <Bike> i hope this means you had to hook up an enigma machine
06:29:50 <kmc> traditional crypt(1) is Enigma-based. i don't think crypt(3) ever was, but could be mistaken
06:30:15 <Bike> no entry for crypt in section 1 :(
06:30:33 <Sgeo> I still have no idea what the sections are
06:30:52 <newsham> section 1 is commands, seciton 3 is lib functions
06:31:05 <Bike> Sgeo: it's in man man.
06:31:58 <newsham> HISTORY A rotor-based crypt() function appeared in Version 6 AT&T UNIX. The curâ rent style crypt() first appeared in Version 7 AT&T UNIX.
06:32:17 <kmc> newsham: oh
06:32:30 <newsham> 7th ed is aprox 1977 or so
06:32:37 <pikhq_> So it was Enigma-based.
06:32:49 <Bike> "ENOSYS The crypt() function was not implemented, probably because of U.S.A. export restrictions." that's a pretty good error code
06:34:51 <newsham> -rw-r--r-- 1 bin 1025 7579 May 4 1979 crypt.c
06:36:11 <newsham> ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub//mirrors/minnie.tuhs.org/PDP-11/Trees/V7/usr/src/libc/gen/crypt.c
06:36:45 <Bike> wait, when's the epoch again
06:36:49 <lifthrasiir> memfrob(3) is intended as a migration measure from very old crypt(3).
06:37:01 <newsham> epoch is currently jan 1, 1970.
06:37:19 <newsham> originally it was different, and they had changed it a few times before they settled on the recent one
06:37:30 <Bike> oh for a sec i thought it was 1979
06:37:38 <Taneb> Why did they decide on 1970
06:38:19 <Bike> oh nice, this code uses 'register', i've never seen that outside of knuth
06:38:49 <Bike> ...actually, it just says "register i,j,k;" with no type specifier. is it int by default? i don't know k&r
06:39:01 <pikhq_> That's true of C in general.
06:39:11 <pikhq_> "register i;" is valid, if distasteful, C11.
06:40:27 <newsham> ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub//mirrors/minnie.tuhs.org/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Dennis_v3/Readme.nsys
06:40:30 <pikhq_> Taneb: 1970 was a clean year number close to the origin of Unix.
06:40:31 <kmc> and just "i;" is still valid yes?
06:40:32 <newsham> talks about the epoch changes a little
06:40:50 <pikhq_> IIRC C99 changed that.
06:41:03 <shachaf> isn't it, as a top-level declaration?
06:41:50 <pikhq_> As a top level declaration.
06:42:09 <Bike> can i just do 'auto i;' then? this is important
06:42:19 <pikhq_> Yeah, that is very much valid.
06:42:25 <kmc> can't declare auto variables at top level though
06:42:44 <pikhq_> I was assuming "in a function".
06:42:49 <Bike> sure, i meant at not-toplevel.
06:43:10 <zzo38> Do you know how to pattern match on tree structures?
06:43:27 <kmc> zzo38: uh, sometimes, what's the context here?
06:43:56 <zzo38> kmc: In this case it is SQL, although I can write some parts in C if necessary to do so
06:44:09 <kmc> how are you storing trees in SQL?
06:44:32 <zzo38> One record for each node, and one field tells the ID of the parent node.
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06:46:39 <kmc> and what sorts of patterns do you want to match?
06:47:52 <zzo38> Things like, if one node has the value 1 and any of its children have value 5, then match all nodes that come after the one with value 5, is one example
06:48:13 <kmc> that sounds like something the new SQLite thingy could do, yeah
06:48:30 <zzo38> Or I want to match nodes of a particular type within a node having a particular value
06:48:43 <zzo38> And then there are other things too, and then I want to do replacement on them too
06:50:17 <Bike> has anyone here written a sigbovik paper
06:50:37 <newsham> when will iso or ieee standardize brainfuck?
06:50:50 <newsham> and finally put an end to all the BF splintering
06:51:21 <kmc> i'm holding out for MIL-STD brainfuck
06:51:48 <zzo38> Do you know how you would do this kinds of pattern matching? (Even if it isn't done in SQL)
06:54:28 <newsham> zzo83: in ieee-sql or milstd sql?
06:55:47 <zzo38> newsham: In SQLite.
06:58:31 <newsham> select children from parent where childrens parents are one and children have 5 or are like near something with a five;
07:00:10 <zzo38> What is "like near something with a five"?
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07:40:34 <zzo38> I figured out the command to use a WITH clause to renumber based on the other ordering: with sub1(num,res) as (select 1,min(word) from table1 union all select num+1,min(word) from sub1 join table1 where word>res limit (select count() from table1)) select * from sub1;
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07:44:02 <atriq> Well, I (Taneb) am still awake. And now I am on campus.
07:44:23 <atriq> The internet seems to be not working, at least for http and ssh
07:46:09 <atriq> Dunno, don't particularly care
07:46:33 <atriq> It seems to be able to connect to at least google, reddit, and wikipedia
07:46:45 <atriq> But the connection seems slow
07:46:51 <shachaf> i didn't know those all supported irc
07:47:22 <atriq> (all those for http)
07:47:55 <atriq> The connection to the university's website seems stable, which would make sense seeing as I am in the university
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07:52:04 <fizzie> @tell boily I updated them things.
07:52:05 <Sgeo> Whatever happened to that small Linux machine?
07:52:16 <Sgeo> That also acted like a gaming device
07:53:08 <fizzie> Arguably, that's a small Android machine, even if there's some Linux in it.
07:53:55 <Sgeo> Portable device
07:53:55 <pikhq> It's got Linux. Userspace isn't Linus's responsibility. :)
07:54:07 <fizzie> @tell oerjan That's more to do with the 256 than the "two small-ish primes", though.
07:54:09 <kmc> Android can take credit for making "GNU/Linux" an actually relevant distinction
07:54:22 <Sgeo> As in, handheld device
07:56:55 <Sgeo> Ok, it costs a lot
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07:57:08 <Sgeo> Much more than, say, a PS Vita
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07:58:59 <atriq> Interestingly, I can browse the web on my tablet via wifi just fine
07:59:26 <pikhq> I imagine you pay a lot for the lower production run.
08:00:50 <fizzie> Google should have an IRC-based search interface.
08:01:34 <atriq> I wonder if any of the breakfast buying places are open
08:01:52 <Sgeo> Does 7-Eleven count as a breakfast buying place?
08:02:04 <atriq> Sgeo, I don't think there are any of those near here
08:03:27 <fizzie> Sweden, Norway and Denmark all have some 7-11's, but Finland does not. :/
08:03:57 <fizzie> "For a time in the early 1980s Slurpees were sold in 7-Eleven stores in Sweden, but nowadays Slush Puppies are sold instead." Thank you, Wikipedia, for this fact.
08:05:19 <kmc> 7-Eleven in Japan sells 4 liter plastic bottles of liquor
08:05:46 <shachaf> i live next to a 7-Eleven® store, but i have never consumed a Slurpee® frozen beverage
08:06:04 <shachaf> not even on the 11th of july
08:06:43 <shachaf> i live in the united states
08:06:44 <fizzie> "Slurpees, however, returned to Japan at some 7-Eleven locations in 2011, although the Japanese Slurpee machines are meant to be operated differently from other Slurpee machines."
08:06:53 <fizzie> I didn't really know Slurpee® was such a thing.
08:07:46 <fizzie> Also I knew there was a thing called Big Gulp through pop-cultural osmosis, but I didn't realize it was a 7-Eleven thing.
08:08:13 <atriq> I did not even know that
08:09:40 <fizzie> "The Big Gulp, Super Big Gulp, Double Gulp and Gulp are genetically engineered to quench even the most diabolical thirst." I guess that last one is smaller than the regular one?
08:11:56 <fizzie> A Super Big Gulp is 1.3 litres?! (I suppose I shouldn't be surprised here.)
08:15:01 <shachaf> is it just the name for a cup, or also a beverage?
08:15:35 <Sgeo> Slurpee is a beverage-like thing
08:16:41 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, the Big Gulp is both the refillable cup and six different flavours of soda.
08:16:48 <fizzie> Well, maybe more than six.
08:16:55 <shachaf> kmc: wasn't that the thing you had that one time?
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08:19:21 <kmc> oh yes I did buy some variety of Big Gulp in your presence once
08:19:50 <kmc> it may have been a Super Big Gulp
08:20:12 <kmc> rip Double Gulp
08:20:13 <shachaf> i don't know which size, i just remember the cup
08:20:18 <kmc> that one was almost 2 liters
08:20:59 <fizzie> Google says Double Gulp is "only" 50 oz, which would (narrowly) round down to 1, being approximately 1.47868 litres.
08:21:08 <kmc> it used to be 64 oz though
08:21:48 <shachaf> fizzie: whoa, did you convert that to litres in your head
08:22:02 <fizzie> I converted it to litres in my Google. :/
08:22:17 <fizzie> I don't think I've ever seen a single drink bigger than 0.6 l (20 wizards of oz) from food places in Finland. (Discounting things like a 1 l pitcher that's clearly designed for more than one person, since you don't drink out of it.)
08:22:43 <fizzie> (Also I had already written a "wizard of oz" "joke" there several comments ago, I just kept being interrupted.)
08:25:08 <kmc> maybe you don't drink out of it
08:25:34 <shachaf> oh, i think i considered purchasing some Slurpee® or Big Gulp® flavored beverage this one time
08:25:41 <shachaf> but then i looked for an ingredients list and couldn't find it
08:26:34 <fizzie> They serve it in something almost exactly like this http://www.hiwtc.com/photo/products/22/15/67/156709.jpg and while I'm sure one could drink from it, it doesn't really look like it's the intended porpoise.
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17:49:55 <fizzie> According to the telephone number lookup service, I got a call from someone called "Test 3". (Possibly the third child of a mad scientist?)
18:01:16 <zzo38> This issue of 2600 mentions someone who has a problem with a rootkit that stores self-extracting copies of itself in the hard drive, memory RAM disks, and BIOS.
18:03:34 <zzo38> I don't even know if it is true, but apparently "no one has ever heard of anything like it". Apparently if you try to install any version of Windows you get a stripped-down Windows NT 2008 running nothing but BitTorrent, if you try to install any version of Linux you get a corrupted version of ISOLINUX, and if you try to install any version of DOS you get a corrupted version of FreeDOS.
18:04:42 <zzo38> It mentions the autoexec.bat file containing pages and pages of simple "for" and "case" blocks. But, DOS doesn't have "case" blocks.
18:07:08 <zzo38> Do you know anything about this?
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18:08:52 <kmc> sounds like bs
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18:50:42 <quintopia> i would be very impressed if such a rootkit existed
19:06:55 <kmc> what do you mean "if you try to install any version of Linux you get a corrupted version of ISOLINUX"
19:07:00 <kmc> ISOLINUX isn't a distribution
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20:05:00 <spiette> http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1
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20:59:30 <impomatic> Is anyone here is Austria? There's a Core War event happening this weekend...
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21:32:49 <HackEgo> dyrcoin dimecoin thenamecoin sorincoin nutivecoin alagecoin sanshacoin lazzocoin gazocoin surrocoin aaaaaaaacoin []coin pumcoin sociacoin rwjcoin blanicoin bloocoin filaxcoin tedcoin maucoin
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21:36:44 <ion> aaaaaaaacoin http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/AAAAAAAAA!
21:38:25 <kmc> HackEgo: nice lag
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22:49:57 <lambdabot> fizzie said 14h 57m 52s ago: I updated them things.
22:50:10 <boily> fizziello. thanks!
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22:55:45 <lambdabot> fizzie said 15h 1m 37s ago: That's more to do with the 256 than the "two small-ish primes", though.
22:56:28 <oerjan> ah good spam, i was wondering if agora was back in a lull or if my email wasn't working
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22:58:32 <^v> im comparing a constant fixed width string
22:58:52 <^v> in brainfuck
22:58:53 <ion> An excellent video, but wat @ the spreadsheet thing. Solving 256·320^(n−1) s = 10^100 years would have been a bit simpler. http://youtu.be/F1CddzgVW14
22:59:42 <^v> im looking for an efficient way to see if a range of memory is zero
22:59:43 <boily> oerjan: is “pålegg” a real Norwegian word?
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23:00:18 <oerjan> boily: yes, with at least two different meanings
23:01:03 <boily> oerjan: I am intrigued.
23:01:05 <oerjan> the most common one being anything you put on top of a slice of bread, i.e. ~ en:condiments iirc
23:01:27 <boily> oerjan: that is something I can find myself agreeing with.
23:01:43 <^v> i know i can just have a bunch of "x==0"s
23:01:44 <ais523> oerjan: en:condiments mostly refers to things like salt, sugar, pepper
23:01:44 <oerjan> except i think en:condiments is rather wider in meaning
23:01:52 <^v> but that requires inversion
23:02:26 <oerjan> anyway, it's on top of a slice of bread, which is a very norwegian thing to do.
23:02:29 <^v> and i only have 1 open value left of the string
23:03:42 <boily> ^v: the equality comparisons take up too much space?
23:04:01 <oerjan> ok en:garnish also overlaps, but isn't quite there either.
23:04:13 <boily> hm. mmmmh.... eeeeeh...
23:04:14 <^v> well not really
23:04:24 <oerjan> boily: "i recall wrong" which may confuse you on the grounds that i made it up on the spot
23:04:43 <boily> oerjan: tdphbirns.
23:05:07 <oerjan> i don't understand, but i still think a touché is called for.
23:05:21 <^v> ":brainf^vck"(-:>)>[-]<<[<]>> is what i use to get the difference and zero the end
23:05:26 <boily> ais523: traditional Montréal condiments include: chopped onions, coleslaw and prepared mustard.
23:06:53 * oerjan guesses "that did perhaps help but i'm really not sure"
23:07:29 * boily decretes oerjan to be this chännel's Official Psychic Person.
23:08:51 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl.
23:09:14 <ais523> ^v: what language is that?
23:09:30 <ais523> it looks suspiciously like a BF variant
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23:09:57 <^v> ais523, its BF but i use macros
23:10:10 <^v> http://puu.sh/73Kiy.png
23:10:16 <^v> ER, wrong pic
23:10:23 <^v> http://puu.sh/73HGe.png
23:11:05 <oerjan> http://no.wiktionary.org/wiki/p%C3%A5legg lists the two other meanings as well: (2) an addition, in particular a salary or price raise (3) a bureaucratic order
23:11:08 <^v> "Derp"(+:>) will load "Derp" into memory
23:11:27 <oerjan> not sure what would be proper english for (3)
23:11:42 <^v> it puts each char's byte as :
23:11:56 <boily> oerjan: so in Norway salaries are slices of bread? fascinating.
23:12:02 <^v> so +123>+364> etc
23:12:22 <^v> and +1337 translates to 1337 pluses
23:12:42 <^v> it helps me keep my sanity
23:12:50 <^v> if your wondering, im making an IRC bot
23:12:58 <oerjan> boily: hey "matpakke" is important!
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23:14:07 <boily> oerjan: after seasons and seasons of watched anime, I couldn't agree more.
23:14:27 <oerjan> the page helpfully has a german translation, "Auflage"
23:14:59 <boily> I suspect common linguistic roots.
23:16:04 <oerjan> en.wiktionary suggests "condition" for Auflage, which doesn't really fit too well.
23:16:34 <boily> condi{tion,ment}. the edit distance isn't that far!
23:16:52 * oerjan tries to read the german one
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23:17:57 <oerjan> i'm not entirely sure but i don't think _any_ of the meanings in de.wiktionary fit.
23:18:13 <boily> nope. they don't fit.
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23:18:36 <oerjan> the first would be closest, but...
23:20:16 <oerjan> as in, you _could_ get a pålegg from a court, but that's not the only possible source.
23:20:37 <boily> as long as Sriracha and hoisin sauce can both be considered påleggifiable, I am happy.
23:22:30 <oerjan> well they _might_. they're not precisely the most intended referent.
23:22:49 <boily> right. something something eggs and salmon and dill something.
23:22:55 <oerjan> cheese, bologna, liver paté, that sort of thing.
23:23:08 <oerjan> (which happens to be samples from my fridge.)
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23:24:17 <oerjan> also strawberry jam, mackerel in tomato sauce, and cod caviar.
23:24:29 <boily> uhm. strawberry jam, with all of that?
23:24:41 * boily is mildly distressed at the idea.
23:24:43 <oerjan> rarely on the same slice, no
23:24:50 <boily> oh. thanks fungot.
23:24:50 <fungot> boily: ( deretardations removing the obviously ugly design of a module system is
23:25:08 <boily> fungot: deretardation, as in... progress?
23:25:09 <fungot> boily: i'll probably stop programming the day i will hit the end of the program. it turns i broke both fnord chips, or then it's the top level
23:25:30 <boily> `addquote <fungot> boily: i'll probably stop programming the day i will hit the end of the program.
23:25:31 <fungot> boily: mut ku ois pakko antaa' would be much better company. i'm constantly trying to extract what should be opened to use define-interface and define-structure in scheme48? i see a " 3"
23:25:31 <oerjan> i recall trying out jam and peanut butter, back when i ate that and wanted to try this typical american thing.
23:25:32 <HackEgo> 1168) <fungot> boily: i'll probably stop programming the day i will hit the end of the program.
23:26:00 <oerjan> fungot: please stay safely within your endless loop twh
23:26:01 <fungot> oerjan: but keep in mind i still don't see ( perhaps for performance reasons
23:26:21 <boily> balancing parentheses impacts fungot's performance.
23:26:21 <fungot> boily: 10 seconds?" s: " lemme check... 15 minutes
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23:26:52 <oerjan> fizzie: have you put ( traps i fungot's code to cause em to halt? how evil.
23:26:53 <fungot> oerjan: sorry if i can't get gauche to build under ubuntu when fnord is not a ' good macro system'; it is a simple stack based machine
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23:27:38 <oerjan> wtf am i drooling on my t-shirt
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23:50:29 <boily> AAAAAA I HAVE ONION JUICE IN MY EYES AAAAAAAAAAAH!
23:56:43 <oerjan> i suddenly wonder if the onion ever did an article about that.
23:57:36 <oerjan> also this leaves me confident in my habit of never cooking any meal more complicated than frozen pizza.
23:59:29 * oerjan helpfully fills the saucepan with water and empties it onto boily's face ===/^^^\