00:00:51 <oerjan> <nyuszika7h> nyuszika7h@cadoth ~ % tmux -V <-- i take it is a bad sign that my tmux doesn't understand that option.
00:01:37 <oerjan> which means i don't know what my version is, i guess
00:02:44 <boily> quintopia: it was noisy in the lunchroom today!
00:06:11 <oerjan> <kmc> https://github.com/mame/radiation-hardened-quine <-- hmph, for realism it should work if any one character was _changed_
00:06:51 <quintopia> boily: meanwhile in USA olympic news, ashley wagner is a total bitch. she skates really well and then bitches about the judging, making her country look bad by association. hope they don't let her back on the team.
00:07:22 <kmc> oerjan: but only by one ASCII bit, right? :)
00:07:33 <oerjan> error correction memory exists, though. i wonder if anyone's managed to make a "radiation-hardened" _cpu_ which works if any internal register bit is flipped
00:07:53 <oerjan> kmc: well that would probably be enough in most cases
00:08:11 <boily> quintopia: sorry, can't hear you over the Glorious Awesomeness of our athletes :P
00:08:39 <boily> (hm. I can buy a distressingly furry gold dragon armour for 5620 gold pieces...)
00:08:42 <oerjan> i suppose if you get enough radiation that you risk _two_ bits in one byte being changed, you're in deep shit anyhow.
00:08:49 <quintopia> boily: meanwhile, our norwegian has not a thing to say about his country's ten gold medals (or more now?)
00:08:56 -!- shikhout has joined.
00:09:21 <oerjan> except that it's sort of logical that a particle might effect more than one bit in a region of a chip, maybe?
00:09:22 <kmc> oerjan: that sounds like a fun challenge
00:10:54 <oerjan> quintopia: i don't want to brag you know. i read in the paper that bjørgen was close to getting the record for most medals for a woman (and i might already get it anyhow because the current holder was accused of doping)
00:11:29 <oerjan> (also i don't really follow the games fanatically, i just get what it says in the paper)
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00:12:04 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin.
00:13:05 <oerjan> quintopia: in the beginning us norwegians were mostly shocked about not being able to get the skis properly prepared...
00:13:18 <oerjan> but i understand that has improved as the weather cooled
00:13:54 <quintopia> oerjan: it is kind of unfair to ask people used to skiing on perfect snow to learn to water ski on the fly
00:14:04 <oerjan> quintopia: you'd think
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00:16:38 <oerjan> also *-i how did that get there
00:16:57 * oerjan isn't getting any olympic medals
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00:19:59 <oerjan> > (3987**12 + 4365**12, 4472**12)
00:20:01 <lambdabot> (6.397665634969862e43,6.397665634848672e43)
00:20:25 <oerjan> > (3987^12 + 4365^12 - 4472^12)
00:20:27 <lambdabot> 1211886809373872630985912112862690
00:21:12 <oerjan> it's that "close enough to work on a calculator display" kind, i take.
00:23:59 <quintopia> boily: so when does this job of yours let you vacation. how much?
00:27:16 <FreeFull> oerjan: Yeah, doesn't work with standard floating point
00:27:20 <boily> quintopia: two weeks per year, starting the first year I work there.
00:27:30 <FreeFull> Depends on you using the decimal floating point of calculators
00:27:38 <oerjan> <HackEgo> [...] rococoin [...] <-- i expect that one to by highly embellished
00:27:56 <quintopia> boily: so you have to work a year before you get it or?
00:28:16 <oerjan> > (3987^12 + 4365^12 == (4472^12::Float))
00:28:33 <oerjan> FreeFull: depends whih standard hth
00:28:39 <FreeFull> Oh, I suppose Float is imprecise enough
00:29:06 <oerjan> WHAT IS HAPPENING TO BY SMELLING
00:29:16 <boily> quintopia: I can vacate in 2014 :D
00:29:47 <quintopia> oerjan: seems like you have a cold
00:29:55 <oerjan> the good news is he can vacate in 2014. the bad news is his employer is muslim.
00:30:07 <quintopia> boily: yay! wanna vacation together? :P
00:31:10 <boily> oerjan: my employer is muslim?
00:31:22 <boily> quintopia: probably not before september.
00:31:56 <oerjan> boily: yep, it's year 2014 after mohammed's (peace be upon him!) move to medina hth
00:32:27 <boily> oerjan: aaaaah (← I understand.) AAAAAAAAAAAAH! (← I'll probably be dead by then.)
00:32:53 <oerjan> boily: it's ok you can get a vacation before if you go on hajj
00:35:03 <boily> oerjan: but quintopia'll have to hajj with me!
00:35:31 <oerjan> i don't see any added problem with that
00:43:29 * boily 's karmic-roguelike sense is tingling.
00:43:45 <boily> that run I'm doing is going too well...
00:43:59 <boily> elliott: I feel weird. things are going my way at DCSS.
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00:54:30 <quintopia> boily: sounds good. where should we go
00:55:24 <boily> quintopia: mecca first, then jakarta.
00:55:51 <quintopia> boily: my music program thing is now in stereo :D
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01:12:06 <quintopia> boily: you have a pythonic linux yes?
01:16:15 <olsner> oerjan: I have a vague idea that cpu registers are "often" ECC
01:17:12 <kmc> not sure, but I think radiation etc. is much less likely to flip SRAM than DRAM
01:18:33 <kmc> a SRAM cell is like two amplifiers feeding back into each other
01:19:31 <kmc> a DRAM cell is just a capacitor + transistor
01:21:35 <boily> quintopia: I am both a penguin and snake fanboy.
01:22:11 <quintopia> boily: then try it out! http://sprunge.us/QMMG
01:23:12 <olsner> lots of comments, good code
01:25:26 <boily> quintopia: I apparently have a marked absence of /dev/dsp.
01:26:33 <olsner> maybe you need to alsa oss something something?
01:27:17 <boily> my current machine is asymptotically converging towards zzo-status.
01:27:24 <boily> (meaning: weird stuff happens.)
01:29:06 <boily> olsner: I'm compiling oss.
01:29:26 <kmc> you could also pipe into 'play' with the appropriate parameters
01:30:39 <quintopia> boily: there was another guy who didn't have that. he was able just to install one package and it worked
01:31:15 <boily> but I miss compiling random stuff! at my new job we're using windows machines! it feels weird and dirty!
01:31:22 <kmc> quintopia: you could write chr(int(samp/256)%256)+chr(int(samp%256)) as struct.pack('<H', samp) or so
01:31:48 <olsner> boily: otoh, sound probably works
01:32:27 <kmc> well this particular case isn't "sound doesn't work in Linux" so much as "using the 10+ year old deprecated sound API doesn't work"
01:32:41 <kmc> it's true that Windows is more apt to keep 10+ year deprecated APIs around
01:33:31 <boily> compilation worked, but insmodding the modules didn't.
01:33:50 <quintopia> kmc: yeah i figured that. in fact, i looked it up at some point. but that was only a recent change i made, and was too lazy to look it up again.
01:39:54 <quintopia> kmc: no errors, but no sound either. what happen.
01:41:44 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
01:44:59 <quintopia> yeah i just put it back like it was since the pack thing doesn't work
02:02:17 <quintopia> boily: what is the plural of menage a trois?
02:05:06 -!- Bike has joined.
02:05:16 <boily> quintopia: ménages à trois.
02:05:34 <boily> (or ménage à six, if you like it that way.)
02:07:14 <Bike> https://twitter.com/LW_txt btw
02:08:12 <boily> since when is Glenn Gould a bad guy?
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02:12:47 <HackEgo> words --eng-1M --esolangs ${1-20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
02:13:44 <Bike> what's ${1-20}
02:14:11 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/--eng-1M --esolangs [$]{1-/${1---eng-1M --esolangs /' bin/coins
02:14:14 <ion> `run foo=hello; printf '%s\n' "${foo-bye}"
02:14:16 <HackEgo> words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
02:14:18 <ion> `run printf '%s\n' "${foo-bye}"
02:14:38 <HackEgo> anräkningpoolcoin lundvitcoin anonscoin baraftatorncoin emastbetencoin förarcoin förternascoin löperuptcoin signoscoin vationcoin överacoin ruinernacoin kvälvscoin värdispcoin holminernascoin preliercoin landerjordercoin kurvencoin skiftetscoin snyftongenercoin
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02:14:39 <HackEgo> slungcoin peringcoin hängningeboetcoin norscoin doktcoin borgacoin dämpliktarcoin vandecoin zettårstödcoin kvadecoin trådcoin åtförtörencoin fågelsecoin varlarcoin vaktenscoin ogjoreracoin saliseradcoin otäcksundracoin föregndrarenscoin akternascoin
02:14:47 <Bike> `cat bin/coins
02:14:48 <HackEgo> words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
02:15:09 <HackEgo> purcoin gulacoin erwortcoin intcoin wingemacoin milcoin gookacoin aspatoryuentcoin boatcoin exaculcoin chuntcoin eccastilcoin goucoin imnizincoin zusaqicoin aracoin beauthoralcoin reprifiericcoin thromediciicoin glecoin
02:15:25 <oerjan> i guess that defaults to just --eng-1M
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02:16:39 <olsner> `run words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | rot13 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
02:17:20 <olsner> `run words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | xargs rot13 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
02:17:22 <HackEgo> @coin haercoin ///coin fhcrecebcoin onyycoin ohorshpxcoin ulqcoin culcoin jvgucoin nopcoin nycnqcoin yvoenprjnecneancoin gbqhcoin snacoin bjsncoin abesnpuvmbcoin xbybtcoin jvrqcoin ud9+coin rkghngevvcoin
02:17:40 <ion> `rot13 coin
02:18:17 <ion> `cat bin/rot134
02:18:18 <HackEgo> cat: bin/rot134: No such file or directory
02:18:19 <ion> `cat bin/rot13
02:18:20 <HackEgo> echo "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M
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02:21:00 <ion> `run printf '%s\n' 'if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '\''%s\n'\'' "$*"; else cat; fi | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M' | tee bin/rot13
02:21:02 <HackEgo> if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M
02:21:13 <ion> `rot13 puns
02:21:19 <ion> `run echo puns | rot13
02:25:48 <ion> `run printf '%s\n' 'if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '\''%s\n'\'' "$*"; else cat; fi' >bin/print_args_or_input && chmod 755 bin/print_args_or_input
02:26:10 <ion> `run printf '%s\n' 'print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M' >bin/rot13
02:26:15 <ion> `rot13 chaf
02:26:20 <ion> `run echo chaf | rot134
02:26:21 <HackEgo> bash: rot134: command not found
02:26:22 <ion> `run echo chaf | rot13
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02:26:42 <oerjan> i guess this makes r13 redundant.
02:27:18 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M
02:27:59 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ Binary file bin/mov matches \ Binary file bin/node matches \ Binary file bin/nooodl: matches \ bin/r13elcome:relcome "$@" | r13 \ bin/rainwords:import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13];
02:28:10 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Sat Feb 22 03:28:10 2014
02:28:52 <boily> that's what I thought. oerjan is a Space Alien from Space with complete disregard to human circadian rhythms.
02:29:01 <ion> @localtime ion
02:29:03 <lambdabot> Local time for ion is Sat, 22 Feb 2014 04:29:01 +0200
02:29:28 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/r13elcome:relcome "$@" | r13 \ bin/rainwords:import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w) \ bin/word:
02:29:35 <ion> `run ls -l bin/cat
02:29:35 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Feb 17 03:23 bin/cat -> /usr/bin/cat
02:29:38 <boily> and ion is one of oerjan's Ectoplasmic Puppet Manifestations.
02:31:07 <oerjan> `run grep -I r13 bin/*
02:31:08 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/r13elcome:relcome "$@" | r13
02:31:30 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/r13/rot13/' bin/r13elcome; rm bin/r13
02:31:42 <HackEgo> ion: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
02:31:49 <HackEgo> vba: Jrypbzr gb gur vagreangvbany uho sbe rfbgrevp cebtenzzvat ynathntr qrfvta naq qrcyblzrag! Sbe zber vasbezngvba, purpx bhg bhe jvxv: <uggc://rfbynatf.bet/jvxv/Znva_Cntr>. (Sbe gur bgure xvaq bs rfbgrevpn, gel #rfbgrevp ba vep.qny.arg.)
02:32:44 <ion> `run grep -I '\$[*@]' bin/*
02:32:44 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/^.^:cat $@ \ bin/¿:? "$@" | rev | tac \ bin/؟:? "$@" | rev \ bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ:WELCOME "$@" | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/!-~/！-～/; y/ / /' \ bin/aaaaaaaaa:echo "$@" | tr A-Za-z0-9 [A*26][a*26][4*10] \ bin/as86:as="$1"; shift; echo ".intel_syntax noprefix; $as" | gcc "$@" -c -x assembler /d
02:33:37 <ion> `run grep -EI '(echo|printf).{,10}\$[*@]' bin/*
02:33:38 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/aaaaaaaaa:echo "$@" | tr A-Za-z0-9 [A*26][a*26][4*10] \ bin/complain:echo "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. \ bin/instalist:echo $@ \ bin/ord:echo "$@" | perl -C7 -pe 'chomp; $_ = join(" ", map { ord } split //, $_);' \ bin/ordu:echo "$@" | perl -C7 -pe 'chomp; $_ = join(" ", map { s
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02:33:59 <oerjan> boily: you didn't already know this?
02:35:36 <boily> I am sane, therefore I didn't.
02:35:41 <ion> `run echo 'test echo "$@" echo "$*" echo $@ test' | sed -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /'
02:35:41 <HackEgo> test print_args_or_input "$@" echo "$*" echo $@ test
02:35:47 <ion> `run echo 'test echo "$@" echo "$*" echo $@ test' | sed -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g'
02:35:47 <HackEgo> test print_args_or_input "$@" print_args_or_input "$@" print_args_or_input "$@" test
02:37:16 <ion> `run sed -i -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g' "bin/^.^" bin/aaaaaaaaa; cat "bin/^.^" bin/aaaaaaaaa
02:37:18 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ cat $@ \ #!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | tr A-Za-z0-9 [A*26][a*26][4*10]
02:38:06 <ion> `run sed -i -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g' bin/complain bin/ord bin/ordu
02:38:23 <ion> `cat bin/instalist
02:39:00 <ion> `run rm bin/instalist; ln -s print_args_or_input bin/instalist
02:39:06 <ion> `instalist foo bar
02:39:37 <oerjan> `run grep instalist bin/*
02:39:37 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:39:44 <ion> `run grep -EI '(echo|printf) ("?)\$[*@]\1' bin/*
02:39:45 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:39:56 <ion> `run grep -EI '(echo|printf) ("?)\$[*@]\2' bin/*
02:39:57 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/shmify:echo "$@" | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]*\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/' \ bin/unhex:echo "$@" | xxd -r -p
02:40:28 <ion> `run sed -i -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g' bin/shmify bin/unhex; cat bin/shmify bin/unhex
02:40:30 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]*\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/' \ print_args_or_input "$@" | xxd -r -p
02:40:43 <ion> `run grep -EI '(echo|printf) ("?)\$[*@]\2' bin/*
02:40:43 <HackEgo> grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:40:52 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!).
02:41:09 <ion> `run ls -l /usr/bin/cat
02:41:09 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access /usr/bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:41:27 <ion> `run rm bin/cat
02:41:37 <ion> `cat bin/shmify
02:41:37 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]*\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/'
02:42:29 <ion> `ls -lL bin/cat
02:42:30 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
02:42:35 <ion> `run ls -lL bin/cat
02:42:36 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:42:43 <ion> `run ls -l bin/cat
02:42:43 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Feb 22 02:42 bin/cat -> /usr/bin/cat
02:42:50 <oerjan> ion: i was trying to find the file history
02:43:04 <oerjan> but apparently it's now gone.
02:44:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHICKEN FROM THE EARTH).
02:44:09 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:44:09 <oerjan> oh i see it was freefull doing a rather silly vandalism evasion
02:45:54 <HackEgo> cat: bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:46:00 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:46:27 <oerjan> Gregor: now the repository browser is missing a change again
02:47:20 <oerjan> @tell Gregor i did two consecutive `reverts and only the first shows up in the repository browser
02:47:22 <ion> Where’s the repository browser?
02:47:59 <oerjan> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
02:50:39 <HackEgo> cat: bin/cat: No such file or directory
02:50:46 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information.
02:50:52 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Feb 22 02:48 bin/cat -> /usr/bin/cat
02:51:09 <oerjan> `run rm bin/cat; echo nope >bin/cat
02:51:31 <ion> `run cat complaints
02:51:41 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 9 Feb 17 03:23 complaints -> /dev/null
02:52:32 <oerjan> @tell Gregor oh hm it was involving a symbolic link again. "fixed" it by doing some other change, then turning it into a normal file, then deleting it normally.
02:53:01 <oerjan> the repository really doesn't handle symbolic links well.
02:53:11 <ion> I wonder why?
02:56:05 <oerjan> i am guessing there's some code that assumes they don't exist, so does a test the wrong way and confuses being a symbolic link with not existing.
02:56:16 <oerjan> although it only happens in some cases.
02:57:12 <oerjan> your first rm bin/cat worked, as did my revert of it, but the revert of that only changed the actual file, not the repository version.
02:57:45 <oerjan> so when i did another change it was copied back somehow.
02:58:10 <oerjan> but turning it into a "normal" file makes things work again.
02:58:36 <oerjan> it's not the first time this kind of thing happens.
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03:56:24 <zzo38> How did menus and joystick on the original Amiga and Macintosh computers work?
04:19:54 <oerjan> no, zzo38 is an old an esteemed regular of this channel, who may however be rather excentric.
04:20:08 <oerjan> i hope this clears it up.
04:20:54 <newsham> cool. then i should prob apologize for some of my rude answers.. it just always feels like i'm being trolled
04:21:09 <newsham> amiga and mac primarily worked with mouse, not joystick
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04:25:15 <zzo38> I know it worked with mouse, not joystick
04:25:24 <zzo38> But do they support a joystick at all?
04:27:16 <newsham> i dont think amiga supported a joystick for the workbench gui. you could use joysticks with games
04:28:03 <Bike> http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1003456 finally someone figures out a practical use for Quake
04:28:05 <newsham> http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=68707 <- said you could but it wouldnt workw ell
04:28:06 <zzo38> Yes, that is what I thought, but how do those joysticks work?
04:29:00 <newsham> iirc amiga accepted standard atari joysticks, 9 pin d-connector, which had one pin for up,down,left,right and fire, and it would hook up those pins to vcc or gnd as you moved the joystick?
04:29:16 <newsham> i thikn the mouse worked the same way except it would click many times in the directions it was travelling
04:30:59 <zzo38> How did joystick work on Commodore 64, Macintosh, Apple II, etc?
04:31:48 <newsham> http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1435/joyportsro8.jpg
04:32:02 <newsham> c64 and atari and amiga had the same joystick connector port
04:32:15 <newsham> i dont know about appleII or mac
04:33:01 <zzo38> I do know also how PC joysticks work, which used discharge times, I think
04:33:14 <newsham> http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/atari_stick.gif
04:33:46 <newsham> some joysticks use two potentiometers, one for x axis, one for y axis. one way to measure the potentiometer is to charge it with an RC circuit and see how long it takes to discharge
04:34:24 <newsham> atari and c64 also supported reading pots on the joystick port.. i havent heard of people using it for a joystick, but people used it for the "paddle controllers" used by pong and driving games
04:34:58 <newsham> http://www.waitingforfriday.com/images/thumb/6/61/Commodore_Paddles.png/300px-Commodore_Paddles.png
04:35:51 <newsham> http://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/Paddle
04:36:27 <newsham> "analog joysticks" are just like two paddles used together as one joystick
04:38:46 <newsham> http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Tutorial/joy_pic_480.jpg
04:44:11 <zzo38> The Z-machine documentation includes more extension table words, such as MSETBL, MSEDIR, MSEINV, MSEVRB, MSEWRD, BUTTON, JOYSTICK, BSTAT, JSTAT. The first five are for menus, BUTTON is for button events, JOYSTICK for joystick events, and BSTAT and JSTAT store the state of the buttons and joystick.
04:44:37 <zzo38> I am trying to figure out how this was supposed to work. I believe Infocom probably had no details in mind when they wrote this down, actually.
04:46:07 <newsham> "(the following words are defined but no XZIP implements them)
04:46:34 <zzo38> Yes, and not only did they not implement them, but they didn't document them, either.
04:46:46 <zzo38> And they never used them.
04:49:21 <zzo38> Other than these things, there are two remaining unknown things: One is more details about their MIDI files (I believe command 0xFF is a delay, but cannot figure out the units and have no evidence other than the files themselves), and which computers used which variant of Font 3.
04:51:08 <zzo38> The DECSystem-20 interpreter used VT100 character graphics if used with a VT100 terminal, or custom graphics that match either the PC or Amiga (I don't know which) if you have a VT220 terminal. There was no way to check this feature within the Z-code program other than asking the user, as far as I know.
04:51:44 <zzo38> (Maybe the interpreter version identifier byte could indicate this, but even if it did, Infocom did not use this.)
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05:28:40 <oerjan> did you know kmc and happy birthday have absolutely no letters in common
05:30:31 <oerjan> kmc: i am sorry but my attempts to wish you a chimæric happy birthday have been thwarted. in two languages.
05:31:06 <Bike> what... does that mean
05:31:15 <oerjan> gratulerer kmced dagen
05:32:15 <oerjan> he does seem a little silent
05:34:16 <oerjan> "Once one goes down that road, one’s on a very slippery slope. Perhaps that’s why the kind of attitude you elucidated there, Jeremy, is one of the greatest enablers of evil in the history of our species."
05:34:30 <oerjan> someone is on a slippery slope to godwin
05:35:05 <oerjan> and this was in a quantum computing discussion.
05:35:45 <Bike> we all know hitler was emotionally damaged by the negative reception to his quantum annealing company
05:36:18 * oerjan has a hunch Bike may have read the same thread.
05:36:31 <newsham> map chr $ zipWith (ord x ^ ord y) "KMC" "day"
05:36:34 <newsham> > map chr $ zipWith (ord x ^ ord y) "KMC" "day"
05:36:36 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char
05:36:36 <lambdabot> -> GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Int'
05:36:36 <lambdabot> with actual type `GHC.Types.Int'Couldn't match expected type `GH...
05:36:36 <lambdabot> with actual type `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr'Couldn't match e...
05:36:36 <lambdabot> with actual type `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr'
05:36:49 <newsham> > map chr $ zipWith (\x y -> ord x ^ ord y) "KMC" "day"
05:36:50 <lambdabot> "*Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: 1839101630706465969
05:36:51 <Bike> no, but it's pretty easy to guess if you're reading about quantum computing it's aaronson, and if it's aaronson it's d-wave
05:37:10 <Bike> basically sherlock holmes and Jesus in one right here
05:37:32 <oerjan> Bike: can't argue against that
05:37:55 <oerjan> > map chr $ zipWith (\x y -> ord x `xor` ord y) "KMC" "day"
05:38:15 <Bike> good cos i'd have fucked you up like a fig tree
05:40:17 <oerjan> > zipWith (xor `ala` chr) "KMC" "day" -- wonder if this was the function...
05:40:19 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int'
05:40:19 <lambdabot> -> (GHC.Types.Char -> c0) -> GHC.Types.Char -> c0'
05:40:19 <lambdabot> Expected type: ((GHC.Types.Char -> c0)
05:40:19 <lambdabot> -> (GHC.Types.Char -> c0) -> GHC.Types.Char -> c0)
05:40:25 <lambdabot> Wrapped s s a a => (s -> a) -> ((s -> a) -> e -> a) -> e -> s
05:44:06 <oerjan> maybe that's not so easy to use with a binary function.
05:45:14 <newsham> > map chr $ zipWith (xor `on` ord) "KMC" "day"
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05:45:37 <newsham> some fancy composition of chr with (xor `on` ord) ?
05:45:55 <oerjan> > zipWith (chr .: xor `on` ord) "KMC" "day"
05:45:56 <lambdabot> `.' (imported from Data.Function),
05:45:56 <lambdabot> `C..' (imported from Control.Category),
05:46:46 <oerjan> probably has the wrong precedence anyway.
05:47:21 <oerjan> well Chars are unicode
05:47:25 <Bike> well how else would you do xor if there was not bitwise representation to use
05:47:28 <zzo38> Because of its limit.
05:47:37 <oerjan> they're not closed under the operations.
05:47:40 <zzo38> Its limit is stupid, nonetheless, but it is there.
05:47:52 <zzo38> If they just used something liek 24-bits then it would work.
05:48:31 <quintopia> oerjan: what is the highest-degree poly-time algorithm ever used to solve a real problem? do you know?
05:48:43 <zzo38> (The I/O could convert characters outside of Unicode range into a Unicode replacement character, if needed; but you can use 24-bits in UTF-8)
05:48:45 <quintopia> the highest i know of is the sextic algorithm for PRIMES
05:49:14 <oerjan> that was the one that dropped into my mind too
05:49:31 <oerjan> i may not be well-educated on this issue.
05:50:43 <oerjan> also does anyone use that for "real" given that the randomized tests are faster, even if you want a certificate?
05:51:23 <newsham> ?hoogle (a -> b) -> (b -> a) -> (a -> a -> a) -> (b -> b -> b)
05:52:10 <Bike> chemistry is really weird. i'm looking at an explicit wavefunction. and then there's a footnote indicating that exp x means e^x.
05:52:59 <newsham> bike: now you wont wonder what e, x and p are and why they're being multiplied!
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06:11:15 <oerjan> @let onIso f i x y = review i f (view i x) (view i y)
06:11:17 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `Control.Lens.Internal.Review.Reviewed
06:11:47 <oerjan> @let onIso f i x y = view (re i) f (view i x) (view i y)
06:11:49 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `Control.Lens.Internal.Review.Reviewed
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06:13:07 <oerjan> hm the syntax is correct, i probably need rank-N types
06:14:18 <newsham> ?hoogle (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a -> a -> c) -> (b -> b -> d)
06:15:04 <oerjan> @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' b a) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) f (view i x) (view i y)
06:15:06 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `a' with `a -> a -> a'
06:15:06 <lambdabot> `a' is a rigid type variable bound by
06:15:06 <lambdabot> onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> Iso' b a -> b -> b -> b
06:15:20 <oerjan> @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' a b) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) f (view i x) (view i y)
06:15:22 <lambdabot> with `(b -> b -> b) -> (b -> b -> b) -> b -> b -> b'
06:15:22 <lambdabot> `b' is a rigid type variable bound by
06:15:35 <Bike> woooooo yeah baby
06:15:46 <Bike> take it all offfff
06:17:11 <oerjan> @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' a b) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) $ f (view i x) (view i y)
06:17:11 <zzo38> What does "utf8_unicode_ci" mean in MySQL?
06:17:13 <lambdabot> `a' is a rigid type variable bound by
06:17:13 <lambdabot> onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> Iso' a b -> b -> b -> b
06:17:26 <oerjan> @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' b a) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) $ f (view i x) (view i y)
06:18:30 <oerjan> > zipWith (onIso (re enum) xor) "KMC" "day"
06:18:31 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int'
06:18:31 <lambdabot> Expected type: (GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int)
06:18:31 <lambdabot> -> (GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int)
06:18:52 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `Int' with `a0 -> a0'
06:18:53 <lambdabot> -> (a0 -> a0 -> a0) -> a0 -> a0 -> a0
06:19:04 <lambdabot> (a -> a -> a) -> Iso' b a -> b -> b -> b
06:19:30 <oerjan> > zipWith (xor `onIso` re enum) "KMC" "day"
06:19:31 <lambdabot> from the context (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p,
06:19:31 <lambdabot> bound by a type expected by the context:
06:19:31 <lambdabot> (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p, GHC.Base.Functor f) =>
06:19:55 <oerjan> this seems not entirely improving
06:20:09 <oerjan> > (xor `onIso` re enum) 'K' 'd'
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06:20:11 <lambdabot> from the context (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p,
06:20:11 <lambdabot> bound by a type expected by the context:
06:20:11 <lambdabot> (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p, GHC.Base.Functor f) =>
06:20:31 <oerjan> > (xor `onIso` enum) 'K' 'd'
06:20:33 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' with `GHC.Types.Char'
06:20:33 <lambdabot> Expected type: p a0 (f a0) -> p GHC.Types.Char (f GHC.Types.Char)
06:20:33 <lambdabot> Actual type: p a0 (f a0) -> p GHC.Types.Int (f GHC.Types.Int)
06:20:50 <lambdabot> (Enum b, Functor f, Contravariant f) => (Int -> f Int) -> b -> f b
06:21:00 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Contravariant f) => AReview s t a b -> (t -> f t) -> b -> f b
06:21:45 <oerjan> > zipWith (xor `onIso` from enum) "KMC" "day"
06:22:16 <Bike> this is the thing you did earlier with nothing but vanilla haskell, right
06:22:36 <zzo38> I figured out what it means; I do not want to implement it due to its complexity.
06:23:52 <Bike> i should probably install a kannada font
06:24:09 <Bike> i still got ¬_¬ though
06:24:19 <newsham> > let boobs = (.).(.) in zipWith (chr `boobs` (xor `on` ord)) "KMC" "day"
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06:28:47 <newsham> ?let mapBinOp f g h = ((.).(.)) h (f `on` g)
06:29:07 <newsham> > zipWith (mapBinOp xor ord chr) "KMC" "day"
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06:32:56 <oerjan> > zipWith (mapBinOp xor `withIso` enum) "KMC" "day"
06:32:57 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' with `GHC.Types.Char -> c0'
06:32:57 <lambdabot> Expected type: (a1 -> GHC.Types.Char -> a1)
06:32:57 <lambdabot> -> (b0 -> t0) -> GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Char -> c0
06:32:57 <lambdabot> Actual type: (a1 -> GHC.Types.Char -> a1)
06:32:57 <lambdabot> -> GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.IntCouldn't m...
06:33:06 <oerjan> > zipWith (mapBinOp xor `withIso` from enum) "KMC" "day"
06:33:08 <lambdabot> with `Control.Lens.Internal.Iso.Exchange
06:34:29 <oerjan> > zipWith (withIso enum $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day"
06:34:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Char' with `GHC.Types.Int'
06:34:30 <lambdabot> Actual type: [GHC.Types.Char]Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Char' with `GH...
06:34:39 <oerjan> > zipWith (withIso (from enum) $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day"
06:35:08 <oerjan> :t zipWith (withIso (from enum) $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day"
06:35:25 <oerjan> > zipWith (withIso (from enum) $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day"
06:35:59 <oerjan> (one day i may be able to remember which side of things is s t and which is a b)
06:36:05 <Bike> you've been doing this for an hour now
06:36:38 <oerjan> right, it's about time for some food
06:58:15 <Sgeo> https://www.google.com/search?q=marquee+html
06:58:24 <Sgeo> (Stolen from #cslounge )
06:59:58 <Sgeo> https://www.google.com/#q=blink+html
07:07:46 <zzo38> Is there a chess problem where Bxa8# or Ba8# is the only solution?
07:08:26 <zzo38> (Or one of the other three corners)
07:16:47 <zzo38> What is the computational class of the "B-tapemark" esolang?
07:18:04 <Bike> any class you want it to be, baby
07:18:53 <zzo38> Sure, but then I would have to change it...I mean, how it is, what class it is the way it is, rather than what it would be otherwise.
07:21:04 <zzo38> "any class you want it to be, baby" is not a proper excuse.
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07:25:00 <zzo38> If it is Turing complete, would it be with some symbols removed, and if so, which ones?
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07:29:33 <zzo38> The conditions always only switch the program grid with the data grid when the condition is true.
07:47:53 <quintopia> oerjan: the only pattern that uses 0 x could just as easily be written 4242424240n140n1. the 0x is inessential, afaict.
07:50:17 <oerjan> um that doesn't do the same thing at all.
07:54:01 <oerjan> quintopia: that pattern doesn't work the way you think, and your version breaks horribly.
07:54:27 <quintopia> i went to sleep and then i came back to say i got it wrong
07:54:58 <Bike> no, that honor is taken by me.
07:54:58 <oerjan> maybe but it will make code longer.
07:59:43 <oerjan> !python -c 'print xrange(-1)'
07:59:45 <EgoBot> File "<stdin>", line 1 \ -c 'print xrange(-1)' \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax
07:59:59 <oerjan> `run python -c 'print xrange(-1)'
08:00:22 <oerjan> quintopia: you could make IO trigger on a negative _first_ number.
08:01:21 <quintopia> oerjan: but there's so many nice properties i get by having it be zero. some of the examples i wrote use sneaky tricks.
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08:05:07 <quintopia> why not just have the interpreter filter 0x7F. no one needs to print a del character :P
08:05:23 <oerjan> have you ever heard of binary files
08:06:20 <oerjan> also, i don't see an obvious way to fix the 424242420xn10xn1 pattern.
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08:09:35 <quintopia> fix it? no just make another that accomplishes the same :P
08:09:45 <oerjan> well that's what i mean.
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08:11:44 <oerjan> quintopia: anyway i am objecting to restricting the form of pure ResPlicate programs on the chance that they _might_ run with IO enabled.
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08:21:18 <quintopia> you have to explicitly enable IO in the current interpreter. it is definitely an extension and not a core feature of the language. programs written in core have undefined behavior when run with the extension
08:21:43 <quintopia> also doesn't something like 4242424222n122n1n1 work?
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10:49:34 <fizzie> Why does my root window have a calculator icon? http://sprunge.us/dVAU
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11:35:41 <olsner> if the root window is 0 maybe a buggy calculator accidentally set the icon for null instead of itself?
11:36:00 <olsner> I just got _NET_WM_ICON: not found.
11:43:27 <fizzie> I did try out kcalc over two-hop X forwarding over SSH, because someone on another channel asked a question about kcalc, and I only had that installed at work.
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12:10:29 <Sgeo> I can't believe I'm actually considering learning vim
12:12:08 <olsner> worst case, you don't like it and use something else
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12:24:24 <impomatic> If anyone is in Vienna, there's a Core War event at Metalab at 4pm this afternoon https://metalab.at
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12:52:50 <Sgeo> "We call this CTRL-G" what, not C-g or something just as bizarre? Blasphemy!
12:53:26 <Slereah> You are supposed to remove the g key
12:54:15 <boily> a spotty decision to remove the G.
12:55:44 <Sgeo> Does less use vim-like commands?
12:55:50 <Sgeo> That would make doing this well worth it
12:56:17 <olsner> yes, similar (not the same though)
12:57:03 <olsner> since ctrl-g normally means ctrl plus g, ctrl+g should mean ctrl minus g
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12:58:47 <boily> so G is electron-like, and is a negatively charged letter. makes sense.
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13:57:22 <boily> nothing like washing the dishes to singe off a few skin layers on your fingers...
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14:50:14 <metasepia> CYUL 221400Z 22015KT 30SM FEW080 03/M05 A2969 RMK AC2 SLP057
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15:10:30 <boily> `relcome LoRdToLsToI
15:10:30 <HackEgo> LoRdToLsToI: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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15:53:30 <Slereah> Why did MS Paint take so long to have anti aliasing capabilities
15:53:40 <Slereah> The Wu line algorithm is from like 92
15:53:47 <Slereah> You'd think by Windows 95 it would be there
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16:06:29 <ais523> Slereah: because for most of what people seriously use Paint for, anti-aliasing is actively harmful
16:06:43 <ais523> its main use is things like limited color depth icons
16:07:04 <Slereah> Yes, but why not the *possibility* of it
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16:16:38 <SgeoWeb> So Freenode didn't break and die, it's just me?
16:16:53 <jconn> SgeoWeb: J, am I alive?
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16:21:55 <boily> Slereah: if Paint had AA, consequences would never be the same.
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16:24:07 <Slereah> boily : http://www.elftor.com/elftor.php?number=112
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16:25:53 <boily> Slereah: also, http://unomoralez.com/ (some quite NSFW)
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19:05:11 <Vorpal> Hm, so I looked at cfunge again, and now I am thinking, "Did I really write that sort of code a couple of years ago?"
19:05:27 <Vorpal> It is rather hard to follow in places
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19:11:46 <JWinslow23> Anyone want to see my newest calculator game?
19:12:38 <zzo38> What is that game?
19:13:48 <zzo38> Describe how the game is working, and what model of calculator it is for.
19:14:13 <JWinslow23> TI-83+, TI-84+, TI-83+SE, or TI-84+SE.
19:14:33 <JWinslow23> And here is a screenie of it running on an 84+: http://img.ourl.ca/JWinslowFlappyBirdv1rev4.gif
19:20:25 <zzo38> Maybe a background isn't needed, but is OK otherwise
19:22:49 <zzo38> There is no point removing it; I just meant it isn't really necessary.
19:24:56 <zzo38> Well, too bad, you can't get color graphics on those models of calculators. (And it would help, not only for some games, but also if you are plotting multiple data sets)
19:25:47 <JWinslow23> Well, TI just released a TI-84+ Color Silver Edition a year ago. :p
19:26:20 <zzo38> Yes, grayscale looks fine, but for some things it would be useful to have colors.
19:27:16 <JWinslow23> ...they actually made a "Flappy Bird" for that color calculator already.
19:28:21 <JWinslow23> Here is a screenie (just so you know, this was not made by me): http://www.cemetech.net/img/ss/001703.gif
19:28:47 <zzo38> Even if you are plotting a single function/dataset, it would help to have the axis a different color than the data. And then of course you can have color games, and various other colored things
19:29:16 <JWinslow23> It's kinda slow for the TI-BASIC language, though.
19:29:38 <zzo38> Yes, I would think so; TI-BASIC is slow in general.
19:30:49 <zzo38> The only model I have is TI-92, although I do have an emulator for some other models.
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19:31:40 <zzo38> It doesn't looks like it.
19:32:27 <zzo38> If your side disconnected but other one doesn't, you can try NS GHOST (if you have an account)
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19:38:20 <Vorpal> <JWinslow23> Here is a screenie (just so you know, this was not made by me): http://www.cemetech.net/img/ss/001703.gif <-- terrible FPS
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19:44:52 <int-e> ah something good came out of the horrible chain-chess variant on chessbase, a reflection on what makes games hard for computers compared to humans. (http://en.chessbase.com/post/computer-resistant-chess-variants)
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19:45:56 <Slereah> There are better games resistant to computers
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19:49:06 <zzo38> They also mentioned tandem pawns chess, option chess, etc they are interesting variants, but so is Sirlin's Chess, which they didn't mention.
19:50:38 <zzo38> Even though it differs by having hidden information.
19:51:07 <zzo38> There are many other variants with hidden information too, such as Kriegspiel
19:51:15 <zzo38> Or my own "Invisible Kings Chess"
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19:57:27 <int-e> Slereah: Dixit ultimately looks like a game of manipulation. I don't think that it'll be fun if played competetively. [For example, a couple could make up their own code for describing each of the cards.]
19:58:08 <Slereah> It is mostly a game for fun, yeah
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20:10:59 <Vorpal> fizzie, Just pushed some changes to cfunge. Some bug fixes on error handling paths, found using static analysis.
20:11:04 <Vorpal> Probably doesn't affect you
20:11:32 <Vorpal> Also PERL fix if the PERL output contains embedded nul bytes
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20:16:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, Oh and I fixed a bug making it fail to compile with icc
20:19:42 * boily whistles while the cuttle reboots ♪
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20:31:02 * boily mumbles “will you connect you damn bot...”
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20:40:26 <int-e> speaking of damn bots ... lambdabot, where art thou?
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20:53:38 <int-e> (it's trying ... but apparently has no luck finding an IRC server that will work. hmm.)
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21:02:53 <metasepia> CYUL 222000Z 22030G39KT 30SM FEW060 FEW080 FEW240 04/M06 A2964 RMK SC1AC1CI1 CI TR SLP039
21:05:45 <ion> I want my coins back.
21:06:51 <fizzie> Vorpal: Okay. Indeed doesn't sound like it'd affect fungot much.
21:07:19 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
21:08:05 <fizzie> Freenode and its flaky servers, again.
21:08:31 <fizzie> None of {holmes,pratchett,barjavel}.freenode.net seem to be talking to me.
21:09:12 <zzo38> I couldn't connect to irc.freenode.net either but I am connected to card and that one works.
21:09:16 -!- fungot has joined.
21:09:36 <int-e> rajaniemi.freenode.net seems stable currently
21:09:53 <fizzie> int-e: It's somewhat far away, though.
21:10:03 <int-e> low bandwidth, who cares
21:10:15 <int-e> (read: I don't care)
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21:10:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, yeah it was mostly stuff like "if malloc fails here, you will read an uninitialized value there"
21:11:18 <Vorpal> int-e, but the latency!?
21:11:42 <int-e> 22:11:38 CTCP PING reply from int-e: 3.315 seconds
21:12:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, also I like the RPi photo
21:12:38 <fizzie> Did you catch the bit where I was trying to measure the physical size of a single pixel in the macro setup?
21:12:43 <int-e> (also odd; lambdabot is now using the same server and replies in less than 2 seconds)
21:12:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, I just saw lambdabot messages
21:13:22 <Vorpal> int-e, * Ping reply from irc.znc.in: 0.01 second(s)
21:13:42 <Vorpal> Why is it using such a stupid name
21:13:50 <Vorpal> it is running on my Rpi
21:14:02 <fizzie> Vorpal: If my ballpark calculations are right, one pixel in the source image (the ones I've posted have been scaled to 25%) corresponds to something like 1 µm. (Not that I've gotten exactly accurate-to-the-pixel images out of it.)
21:14:21 <fizzie> Bip uses "bip.bip.bip" as the host part of the prefix of messages it sends, IIRC.
21:14:22 <Vorpal> int-e, would work better
21:14:27 <fizzie> (That's kind of silly too.)
21:14:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, ooh you should take a photo of the root of a hair or some such thing with that setup
21:15:28 <int-e> Vorpal: to be fair, znc.in *is* under znc's developer's control
21:15:46 <Vorpal> * Ping reply from int-e: 0.54 second(s)
21:16:08 <int-e> so why is my own client so slow in answering itself ...
21:16:28 <Vorpal> int-e, try again, maybe it had to load the relevant code from disk or some such?
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21:16:47 <int-e> I've tried several times, the fastest was 2.648 seconds.
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21:17:18 <fizzie> Vorpal: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ding.jpg -- that's approximately 5-6 mm wide, and the original image width was 5472 pixels.
21:17:34 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is it of?
21:17:50 <fizzie> Vorpal: The dinged adapter ring I might've shown before, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140203-ding.jpg
21:18:21 <fizzie> Vorpal: Oh, and I also took this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140215-mystery.jpg
21:18:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm, microscope photography would be cool
21:18:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, quite a mystery
21:18:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, retro-reflector?
21:19:04 <fizzie> Yes. Well, one of those things you hang in your clothes.
21:19:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, exactly, a retro-reflector
21:19:31 <fizzie> It's kind of an overly fancy title, but technically accurate, sure.
21:19:38 <Vorpal> fizzie, one of the flexible ones? Or one of the hard ones that you hang from a pocket?
21:19:47 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ref.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ref2.jpg -- "regular-size images" with the phone.
21:20:09 <Vorpal> Yeah the hard ones tend to have much larger "unit" size
21:20:14 <Vorpal> if you understand what I mean
21:20:19 <int-e> Vorpal: so apparently ctcp replies are processed in an "idle queue", and perhaps my own command makes irssi think I'm busy doing stuff and delays the unimportant reply. That's the best explanation I have without looking at code.
21:20:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, Also, nice morran
21:21:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is the less fancy name for retro reflectors in English?
21:21:19 <Vorpal> In Swedish they are called "reflex"
21:22:03 <fizzie> I... well, I don't know if they have one. The Finnish word (heijastin) just translates to "reflector", and you have to grok it means that kind of one from the context.
21:22:28 <fizzie> Google finds me references to "pedestrian reflectors".
21:22:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, That is mårran right?
21:22:50 <fizzie> Or "safety reflectors".
21:22:59 <Phantom__Hoover> stick one on the front of your car and it'll prevent all accidents
21:23:05 <Vorpal> Not sure what the English name of that character is
21:23:19 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, :) Hi
21:23:39 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes. ("Mörkö" in Finnish, apparently "The Groke" in English.)
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21:23:49 <Vorpal> That is a terrible English name
21:24:18 <fizzie> Vorpal: I believe it's derived from "growl", kind of like mårran from morra.
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21:24:39 <Slereah> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Be72GYUCYAAM7Vq.png:large
21:25:08 <Vorpal> Slereah, heh, that is pretty neat
21:25:45 <Vorpal> Slereah, they don't form English words though, do they?
21:25:47 <zzo38> Do you know what "`atts` bit(64) DEFAULT b'1000000000000000000000000000000000'," means in MySQL? That is less than 64 bits.
21:25:48 <fizzie> The Finnish name is the Finnish word for a bogeyman (spöke).
21:26:05 <Vorpal> Slereah, Can't see how that is possible with [CR]* (bottom left) for example
21:26:09 <fizzie> Vorpal: They don't, no.
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21:27:57 <fizzie> I can't remember if I filled out this one or some other one.
21:28:41 <Vorpal> Slereah, or RRRRRRRRRRR or RRRCCC or ...
21:29:42 <fizzie> It's rather hard to make an English word for the R*D*M* either.
21:31:31 <Vorpal> Hm it is not really regular in the mathematical sense of regular expression/regular language
21:31:49 <Vorpal> Near the middle left there is a back reference :/
21:31:56 <Slereah> I guess it's more Linux-type regular
21:32:07 <fizzie> There's a couple of backrefs elsewhere, too.
21:32:09 <Vorpal> POSIX Extended or PCRE
21:33:15 <Vorpal> I wonder if there is a single unique solution, it seems to me quite a few of them are rather general. Like .*H.*H.*
21:33:24 <Vorpal> Or even .* in two places
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21:35:35 <Vorpal> I'm fairly certain there are at least 3 valid alternatives for the upper left corner
21:36:19 <Slereah> Vorpal : I guess the rest is decided by the othe rtwo directions
21:36:30 <fizzie> Vorpal: There's three clues pertaining to each cell, though. I think that was originally from some MIT thing.
21:36:47 <fizzie> MIT's Mystery Hunt thing, to be more accurate.
21:37:12 <fizzie> If it's the same one, anyway. They've been quite popular after that, there's http://regexcrossword.com/ and so on.
21:37:14 <Slereah> It's not really harder looking than a sudoku really
21:37:25 <Vorpal> fizzie, there is, and from what I can tell there are multiple viable options for the upper left corner
21:37:30 <Slereah> You just write in the possibilities and cross 'em out
21:38:23 <fizzie> Vorpal: Except if the one down-right from it is required to be I, S or H, which would lock also the corner in place.
21:38:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, yes, but looking at it, I don't think it is,
21:39:54 <fizzie> Vorpal: Well, to me it seems like it must be either H or I, because of the [CHMNOR]*I[CHMNOR]* clue.
21:39:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, it must be either N or E, I is not possible indeed
21:40:30 <Vorpal> You mean second on second line must be H or I
21:41:20 <Vorpal> This might be fun to solve, Except for the back referencex
21:42:48 <Vorpal> At least there aren't any zero width assertions
21:44:45 <Vorpal> fizzie, actually the bottom row appears rather open in many places. It is either C or HH (except for the first cell). Second cell is C, but apart from that there is a lot of .* starting/ending the other two clues
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21:45:17 <Vorpal> Of course, it has to add up to the right number of characters, but even then you have quite a bit of freedom there
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21:45:40 <Vorpal> The last 3 are completely open from what I can tell
21:45:43 <fizzie> Vorpal: ".*" doesn't automatically mean the cell is free, if the rest of the line means it expands to zero characters.
21:46:03 <fizzie> (Though the .*(IN|SE|HI) and such are of course open.)
21:47:08 <fizzie> I don't remember whether I finished or not, but I got at least the majority of it filled with (unless I made a mistake) no ambiguities.
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21:49:14 <fizzie> Vorpal: The third cell of the bottom line seems like another C to me, because of the (HHX|[^HX])* clue on the top-right side.
21:49:47 <Vorpal> Well yeah, I didn't say all of them were open
21:53:26 <fizzie> Vorpal: Well. For the four rightmost cells of the bottom row, the possibilities are CCCC, CCHH, CHHC, HHCC and HHHH. The ([^EMC]|EM)* clue from top-right rules out the three first, so it's really only open whether the two last are CC or HH. It could be that the choice between those two is enforced by the .*(.)(.)(.)(.)\4\3\2\1.* clue, if the only place where you can fit a 12344321 pattern is ...
21:53:32 <fizzie> ... the beginning, but that's bit too far to go right now. Besides, I wouldn't want to spoil it.
22:05:11 <fizzie> Vorpal: Incidentally, we're going to be doing this kind of a round-trip http://goo.gl/maps/K90Ii at summertime.
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22:06:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, neat you will pass close to me
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22:10:38 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes. (Starting point is a Hertz car rental office.)
22:11:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, One day or several?
22:12:28 <fizzie> A couple; the points with markers are places we'll spend a night (the Kolmården marker is probably not at the hotel, since I just typed in Kolmården), and then one night in Stockholm because of ferry schedules.
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22:13:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, I don't know if there are any tourist attractions of notice near Örebro
22:13:24 <Vorpal> fizzie, I guess Svampen, it is a neat looking water tower with a restaurant at the top
22:13:41 <fizzie> We were going to stop at that Kinaparken place you took pictures of.
22:13:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh nice, I forgot I posted pictures of it
22:14:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, you located it?
22:14:16 <Vorpal> It is a bit off the trodden path as it were
22:14:28 <fizzie> Well, I've found their http://www.bastedalenherrgard.se/?nr=18 site, I haven't looked closer than that yet.
22:14:50 <fizzie> There's a set of GPS coordinates on the page, not sure if those are accurate.
22:15:35 <Vorpal> fizzie, well their "map" (karta) is useless, it shows a google map with no markers...
22:15:53 <Vorpal> Oh the English version has a marker
22:16:00 <Vorpal> Well that is interesting
22:16:04 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't know what's up with that. Google Maps does find a "Bastedalens Herrgård", anyway.
22:16:22 <Vorpal> fizzie, try switching with the flag in the upper right corner
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22:16:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, does it work for you on the English page?
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22:17:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, when were the pictures from? That day with almost no one there?
22:17:39 <fizzie> Yes. With I guess some rain? I don't remember exactly.
22:18:10 <fizzie> Looking at the source (which has had all newlines removed), the English page has markers: [ { latitude: 58.786664143237495, longitude: 14.935569763183594, html: "<p>Bastedalens Herrgård<br />& Kinapark</p>" } ]
22:18:26 <fizzie> While the Swedish one has markers: [ ] in it.
22:19:06 <Vorpal> https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=Svampen,+%C3%96rebro&safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&imgil=kUBdzYtUsc73FM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcShXZ4_7HMvyJUKTCJtDBQSVuVLeRhJU_Fyb30v6uNuaocsLiET%253B210%253B210%253BRA7tMg1LRX_gCM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.orebro.se%25252F1636.html&source=iu&usg=__uMggZb9-QVnOllVHfHDI19zhEXs%3D&sa=X&ei=DyEJU-C-La
22:19:07 <Vorpal> u_ywPRuoHoCA&ved=0CGUQ9QEwBA&biw=1920&bih=1063#facrc=_&imgrc=kUBdzYtUsc73FM%253A%3BRA7tMg1LRX_gCM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.orebro.se%252Fimages%252F18.3c1ef9ae11d4988e18f800010926%252F210_210_Svampen.jpg%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.orebro.se%252F1636.html%3B210%3B210
22:19:33 <Vorpal> https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=Svampen,+%C3%96rebro&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=biIJU9KqA4b9ygOF8ILwDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1352&bih=759
22:20:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, that is in Örebro, a water tower with a restaurant in the top. I heard it was pretty good
22:20:08 <Vorpal> but never tried it myself
22:20:41 <fizzie> Oh, a water tower with gills.
22:21:19 <Vorpal> https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvarntorpsh%C3%B6gen
22:21:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, there is that too
22:21:41 <fizzie> There's a restaurant on top of a water tower here in Espoo, http://www.finroute.ru/upload/iblock/80a/80ad65c84a906c1b159f012dcaae8f05.jpg
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22:21:54 <fizzie> (Less mushroom, more UFO.)
22:21:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, I can try to make a summary if you want
22:22:26 <fizzie> I can probably read enough Swedish for Wikipedia articles.
22:23:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, basically they mined skiffer for oil during the second world war
22:23:50 <Vorpal> and that heap is the slag from that
22:24:06 <Vorpal> it is really hot inside. Smoking from parts of it.
22:24:25 <Vorpal> But there is an art exhibition on the top of it nowdays
22:24:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konst_p%C3%A5_H%C3%B6g
22:26:56 <fizzie> For some reason Google Maps (in English) seems to have a lot of names spelled with a lowercase first letter in Sweden.
22:27:03 <fizzie> At least at some zoom levels.
22:27:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, I noticed that too
22:28:05 <fizzie> Some of them seem to be labels that turn into a small-caps font when zoomed in enough.
22:28:43 <fizzie> Though Vättern stays at "vattern | Vättern" (with | denoting a newline) no matter how much I zoom.
22:29:00 <fizzie> (Vänern is just Vänern.)
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22:31:22 <fizzie> Råsunda in Stockholm is also "rasunda" at some zoom levels.
22:33:26 <fizzie> And Saltsjö-Duvnäs is first "saltsjoduvnas" and then later "SALTSJODUVNAS". It's like their small-caps labels can't do diacritics or punctuation at all.
22:33:37 <ion> http://i.imgur.com/om7LJLQ.jpg
22:33:51 <olsner> Vorpal: "Herrgård & Kinapark"?
22:35:10 <fizzie> olsner: Based on the pictures, "Herrgård" sounds a bit grandiose. Though I guess it applies to most things that have enough own land around.
22:35:15 <olsner> Chinese Garden sounds sane though, I almost expected a chinese theme park or something
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22:35:45 <Vorpal> olsner, there is a herrgård near there iirc
22:36:52 <fizzie> They do rent rooms and apartments, but we sort of thought that perhaps not.
22:38:05 <fizzie> (Why do they have a "finger" mouse pointer for the background rectangles of the navigation menu when only the text labels are actually clickable?)
22:38:59 <Vorpal> fizzie, probably not pro at web design?
22:39:35 <fizzie> "<meta name='ttttt' content='tttt'>
22:39:55 <fizzie> I guess their ttttt is tttt.
22:42:39 <fizzie> ion: But what about the polygon counts in the models, huh?
22:44:48 <Vorpal> ion, oh god, is that what the new Thief is like?
22:45:04 <Vorpal> Hm did it release already? I thought it was next week
22:45:48 <Vorpal> ion, I would suggest playing Dishonored instead, that has pretty good level design
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22:51:53 <fizzie> It's not really called "Thi4f", right?
22:52:12 <fizzie> I think it's just "Thief".
22:53:54 <int-e> regular expression crosswords spoiler: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/recross.png
22:54:26 <int-e> tedious, but in the end the solution was unique :)
22:55:36 <fizzie> Oh, the corner we were discussing was indeed from the 12344321 rule.
22:58:53 <int-e> (and what have they done to the text tool in gimp? it used to be usable for just adding a single character to a picture...)
22:59:10 <quintopia> eusjfryeuwigevhfye73isekdhfuiehduiboilyshaouisdhudisk
23:01:50 <int-e> And since that was incomprehensible, it used to be possible to have text centered around the position where one clicked. Now, apparently, the position one clicks becomes the upper left corner of a text box. annoying.
23:03:48 <zzo38> I like this idea of "regular expression crosswords"
23:08:24 <quintopia> (i know you won't, but could you?)
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23:08:55 <zzo38> quintopia: I don't know
23:10:16 <quintopia> hmm, i bet they could be generated automagically
23:10:34 <Phantom__Hoover> ion, to be fair people were coming out with all sorts of dire predictions before human revolution came out, and it was pretty great in the end
23:13:33 <ion> vorpal: Yeah, i liked Dishonored.
23:13:43 <ion> vorpal: I did a ghost run.
23:14:17 <ion> I did one in Human Revolution, too.
23:14:38 <Phantom__Hoover> problem with dishonored (also with hr to a lesser extent) is that ghosting is kind of depicted as the 'right' choice
23:15:19 <Phantom__Hoover> in dishonored's case this is a problem because killing people is really damn fun, in hr it's a problem because if you get spotted it's really hard not to just think of it as a failure and quickload
23:17:20 <Phantom__Hoover> (i have been trying to replay hr recently without just ghosting it and it's not been that fun)
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