00:28:19 -!- kmc has set topic: shiny racoons | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
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00:32:59 <int-e> kmc: "radiant raccoon" would sound like an Ubuntu release.
00:33:49 <int-e> rocks aren't shiny in general
00:33:56 <copumpkin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRH7_Kd5Yc
00:35:10 <int-e> ("radiant" is also not synonymous to "shiny", of course, but closer than "rocky", imho)
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00:55:13 * boily is killing unique pandemonium lords ♪ ^^
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01:29:26 <kmc> int-e: indeed
01:31:07 <kmc> what will they do when they reach the end of the alphabet with animals
01:31:10 <kmc> imo start over with mushrooms
01:31:29 <kmc> Ascendent Amanita, Beautiful Bolete, Charming Chanterelle
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01:32:32 <boily> dazzling deathcap (http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Deathcap)
01:36:13 * oerjan swats boily for just beating him to the deathcap -----###
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01:37:25 <oerjan> i see "just" is a bit exaggerated here.
01:39:23 <kmc> there is an actual mushroom called the death cap
01:39:27 <kmc> amanita phalloides
01:40:37 <kmc> often poisons asian immigrants to the western us who are used to picking the very similar lookng volvariella volvacea
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01:44:41 <int-e> HackEgo is censoring overzealously.
01:45:01 <oerjan> maybe e's just meditating.
01:46:08 <int-e> it does not even complain about commands not being found. perhaps the find-a-command script is broken?
01:47:43 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
01:49:21 <oerjan> `fetch http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wierd
01:49:23 <HackEgo> 2014-03-16 01:49:22 URL:http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wierd [18043] -> "Wierd" [1]
01:49:39 <int-e> oh, the builtins don't use the sandbox machinery, right?
01:49:45 <oerjan> showed up in the repository browser too
01:50:07 <oerjan> and then he's idle again.
01:50:50 <oerjan> hm the revert did _not_ show.
01:52:18 <int-e> elliott: what did that do? the commit looks awfully big ...
01:52:26 <elliott> int-e: went back some trillion years
01:52:37 <elliott> back to when hackego roamed with the dinosaurs
01:53:29 <int-e> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/03afb1619ef2/wisdom ... wow.
01:54:35 <int-e> ok, every second revert gets through?
01:54:38 <oerjan> int-e: what was that for?
01:55:04 <int-e> I'd hope that 4528 is http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/c8d06895aeef
01:55:37 <oerjan> well it's the number of the revision before i fetched Wierd
01:56:09 <int-e> In any case, I missed your `revert.
01:56:28 <int-e> I stare at IRC, I stare at the web browser, I lose context.
01:57:14 <oerjan> anyway, all the non-sandbox commands seem to work _sometimes_.
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02:18:00 <boily> MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH!
02:19:10 <oerjan> i knew it, the saneness was just a ruse
02:19:49 <boily> sorry. I just killed the fourth unique Pandemonium Lord.
02:20:00 <boily> (eviscerating demons is a fun activity!)
02:20:14 <oerjan> fourth? that doesn't sound very unique.
02:20:22 <Sgeo_> ( let muahaha = the (Stream String) "haha" : muahaha
02:20:28 <Sgeo_> ( let muahaha = the (Stream String) "haha" : muahaha in muahaha
02:20:40 <Sgeo_> ( let muahaha = the (Stream String) ("haha" : muahaha in muahaha)
02:21:10 <boily> oerjan: in DCSS, there are an infinity of pandemonium levels, each with a randomized pandemonium lord.
02:21:35 <boily> oerjan: of these infinite levels, four have a predefined fixed vault, with a fixed unique and a fixed rune.
02:21:43 <boily> therefour, they are four, but unique.
02:21:57 <oerjan> Sgeo_: it doesn't work for two different reasons, one of which i tried out earlier and it doesn't work inside let.
02:22:26 <oerjan> (basically let is _not_ recursive in idris.)
02:22:55 <Bike> is idris not lazy...?
02:24:26 <Sgeo_> It's strict by default, but has laziness annotations. I don't know how those interact with codata.
02:25:15 <oerjan> i tried applying laziness too, it didn't help with the lack of recursion.
02:25:25 <oerjan> admittedly i haven't read any actual tutorial.
02:26:31 <oerjan> Melvar said something about recursion being allowed in where clauses, but i couldn't find out how to put one in.
02:27:59 <oerjan> maybe you can only put them on top level declarations, or something.
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04:53:50 <Sgeo_> http://imgur.com/a/sAIe6
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05:21:59 <Bike> try going left
05:34:48 <Jafet> `welcome manueliitho
05:35:17 <Jafet> I expected as much
05:36:13 <Jafet> manueliitho: welcome to the esoteric channel of, uh, shiny racoons
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05:46:53 <Sgeo_> http://i.imgur.com/ALjs0rf.jpg
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06:25:47 <zzo38> I believe that allowing triggers to be indexed would be a good idea to add into SQL, in case you have one hundred triggers on one view, that you can speed up finding the correct trigger to execute.
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11:22:49 <Melvar> Sgeo_: Would you please not try to produce an infinite recursion? It locks up the REPL, taking down the bot.
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11:25:54 <Melvar> ( take 20 (Stream.repeat "haha")
11:25:54 <idris-ircslave> ["haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha", "haha"] : Vect 20 String
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11:39:02 <FreeFull> Melvar: Some sort of timeout should probably be added
11:39:13 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Prelude.List.take, Prelude.Stream.take, Prelude.Vect.take
11:39:23 <idris-ircslave> Prelude.Stream.take : (n : Nat) -> (Stream a) -> Vect n a
11:55:33 <Melvar> FreeFull: The bot has a timeout. The REPL it communicates with does not.
12:01:21 <FreeFull> Melvar: How do you produce an infinite loop anyway? I want to test something, locally
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12:20:54 <olsner> Jafet: someone was apparently not looking for shiny racoons
12:23:41 <boily> still shiny racooning?
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13:37:41 <oerjan> I WANT MY FIBONACCI DAMMIT
13:39:23 <idris-ircslave> Prelude.Foldable.foldr : Foldable t => (elt -> acc -> acc) -> acc -> (t elt) -> acc
13:40:10 <Deewiant> Would any folks here happen to have free access to http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0734189X88901144
13:41:53 <boily> I don't seem to have any access anymore :(
13:42:32 <oerjan> clearly false advertising, how can it be direct if people don't have access
13:44:29 <Deewiant> There may be more false advertising involved: I'm actually looking for a different article which is supposed to be on pages 14–27 of that issue while the linked article should only cover pages 1–13
13:44:57 <Deewiant> But sciencedirect doesn't even mention the other one so I'm wondering if they're both in the PDF of that one or what's up
13:48:46 <Deewiant> Yes, that's what sciencedirect claims
13:48:57 <Deewiant> Or did you see the PDF itself?
13:50:04 <Jafet> It has the same number of pages as http://46.4.207.77/a.pdf
13:51:08 <Deewiant> Right, so some merging took place on Elsevier's end, thanks
13:51:51 <oerjan> bah last darths & droids was clearly false alarm. i guess they didn't have the picture frames for it.
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13:56:09 <oerjan> ( :t with Stream foldr (::) []
13:56:36 <oerjan> ( :t with Stream foldr (\x y -> x :: Delay y) []
13:56:36 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Data.HVect.Nil, Prelude.List.Nil, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.Nil, Prelude.Vect.Nil
13:56:56 <oerjan> oh right there's no stream Nil.
13:57:50 <oerjan> ( :t with Stream foldr (\x y -> x :: Delay y)
13:57:56 <oerjan> ( :t with Stream foldr (\x y => x :: Delay y)
13:58:21 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
13:58:58 <Taneb> Potential botloop there...
13:59:44 <Jafet> There is no type beginning with a ( , is there.
13:59:57 <Taneb> You can with type operators
14:00:20 <Jafet> That begins with (a.
14:00:25 <oerjan> but i don't think you'll be able to get a space.
14:01:43 <oerjan> (we don't want idris-ircslave to give error messages everyone writes like this.)
14:02:09 <oerjan> i think my brain needs service.
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14:13:24 <oerjan> a dog is barking. some asshole got a new one. time to buy poison.
14:14:13 <oerjan> hm that misses a season. make that "barking dog in spring."
14:15:32 <oerjan> let's hope it's just visiting.
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14:17:53 <boily> yesterday night, around 11pm EDT, my neighbours randomly guffawed. it was... more weird than anything else.
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14:33:09 <oerjan> sadly, it's not just visiting. it's in the apartment next to mine that has been vacant all until now.
14:35:58 <Taneb> keep the viking theme
15:20:04 <Melvar> oerjan: Lambda arguments currently require commas between, i.e. (\x y => …) doesn’t parse, it needs to be (\x,y => …). I think somebody really really wants to change that, but I don’t know if or when that change might show up.
15:20:25 <Melvar> Taneb: There currently is no (^) operator in the prelude.
15:21:09 <Melvar> That does exist though. Should be renamed or aliased.
15:35:20 <oerjan> yay the dog stopped while i was shaving. i think its humans came back
15:41:02 <oerjan> ( :t with Stream foldr (\x, y => x :: Delay y)
15:41:36 <oerjan> ( :t with Stream foldr (\x, y => the (Stream a) (x :: Delay y))
15:41:44 <oerjan> ( :t with Stream foldr (\x, y => the (Stream _) (x :: Delay y))
15:41:55 <oerjan> i guess Stream just isn't foldable.
15:42:38 <oerjan> although obviously there _are_ codata versions of folds in some cases...
15:44:15 <oerjan> ( :t \z => with Stream foldr (\x, y => the (Stream _) (x :: Delay y)) z z
15:44:52 <Melvar> ( the (Foldable List) %instance
15:44:52 <idris-ircslave> constructor of Prelude.Foldable.Foldable (\{meth0} => \{meth1} => \{meth2} => \{meth3} => \{meth4} => List instance of Prelude.Foldable.Foldable, method foldr meth meth meth) : Foldable List
15:45:07 <Melvar> ( the (Foldable Stream) %instance
15:46:13 <idris-ircslave> foldr : Foldable t => (elt -> acc -> acc) -> acc -> (t elt) -> acc
15:47:00 <Melvar> oerjan: %instance means “fill this term in using instance search”.
15:47:05 <idris-ircslave> traverse : Traversable t => Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> (t a) -> f (t b)
15:47:42 <Melvar> And type class instances are actual values.
15:48:09 <Melvar> Not imported at present.
15:48:49 <oerjan> i think idris-ircslave has deviously dropped everything that could be used to create a fibonacci stream.
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15:50:21 <oerjan> i cannot guarantee that State would work though, maybe it's too strict.
15:51:14 <Melvar> Okay, something went wrong.
15:51:28 <Melvar> No, just checking for somethinge else that should have been there.
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15:58:57 <Melvar> I recently added an unrelated incorrect import and didn’t test it after that.
16:00:03 <Melvar> Not the ZZ, I thought there was still Data.Uninhabited, but that got moved into Prelude sometime.
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16:02:10 <Melvar> (Which is just (FalseElim . uninhabited).)
16:03:01 <Melvar> So, I took the opportunity to update my Idris, I’ll restart once more in a moment and hopefully we’ll have our imports again.
16:03:39 <Melvar> oerjan: Also, yes, the State is almost certainly too strict for generating a Stream in its state.
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16:08:23 <Melvar> (Funny how those are opposite-colored.)
16:08:38 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Effect.State.State, Control.Monad.State.State
16:09:04 <Melvar> ( \x y => Monad.State.State x y
16:09:09 <Melvar> ( \x, y => Monad.State.State x y
16:09:09 <idris-ircslave> \x => \y => StateT x Identity y : Type -> Type -> Type
16:11:22 <oerjan> ( let fib 0 = 1; fib 1 = 1; fib n = fib (n-1) + fib (n-2) in fib (the Integer 3)
16:12:12 <oerjan> someone said idris allowed ; in place of whitespace, they were confused.
16:12:39 <Melvar> I don’t think you can have multiple clauses in let.
16:12:41 <oerjan> or just another missing syntax i guess.
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16:13:24 <oerjan> ok get back to me when idris is no longer subtly broken everywhere twh
16:13:35 <Melvar> For multiple bindings, I think you have to nest lets.
16:13:55 <Melvar> ( let next (a,b) = (b,a+b) in take 10 (iterate next (Z,S Z))
16:15:16 <oerjan> ( let next = \(a,b) => (b,a+b) in take 10 (iterate next (Z,S Z))
16:15:16 <idris-ircslave> [(0, 1), (1, 1), (1, 2), (2, 3), (3, 5), (5, 8), (8, 13), (13, 21), (21, 34), (34, 55)] : Vect 10 (Nat, Nat)
16:15:43 <oerjan> ( let next = \(a,b) => (b,a+b) in map head $ take 10 (iterate next (Z,S Z))
16:15:44 <idris-ircslave> (input):1:42:Can't disambiguate name: Prelude.List.head, Prelude.Stream.head, Prelude.Vect.head
16:16:10 <oerjan> ( let next = \(a,b) => (b,a+b) in map fst $ take 10 (iterate next (Z,S Z))
16:16:29 <oerjan> although i find it quite silly to have both overloading and type classes.
16:16:30 <Melvar> ( let next = \(a,b) => (b,a+b) in take 10 (map fst (iterate next (Z,S Z)))
16:17:29 <Melvar> Type classes are useful for abstracting across, but sometimes you need a different signature.
16:17:43 <idris-ircslave> Prelude.Applicative.<$> : Applicative f => (f (a -> b)) -> (f a) -> f b
16:17:43 <idris-ircslave> Effects.<$> : (Eff m (a -> b) xs (\v => xs)) -> (Eff m a xs (\v1 => xs)) -> Eff m b xs (\v2 => xs)
16:18:36 <oerjan> yes, but are those heads _really_ that incompatible.
16:18:44 <idris-ircslave> Prelude.List.head : (l : List a) -> (isCons l = True) -> a
16:18:51 <idris-ircslave> Prelude.List.head : (l : List a) -> (isCons l = True) -> a
16:19:28 <oerjan> hm i guess the List one doesn't quite fit.
16:19:29 <Melvar> For a list, you need a proof it is nonempty. For a stream, there is no condition. For a Vect, it needs to be indexed by a successor.
16:20:00 <oerjan> eek, someone restarted the dog.
16:24:00 <Melvar> List.head is almost useless this way; the type for the proof is a poor choice for actual use. Generally, better to just pattern match and be done.
16:25:03 <oerjan> those always give nonempty elements.
16:25:16 <oerjan> (if they exist somewhere)
16:26:16 <Melvar> Probably why nobody has added them yet: They’ll want a type involving nonempty lists.
16:27:14 <Melvar> (And we don’t have a standard type for nonempty lists yet.)
16:27:31 <idris-ircslave> Data.HVect.index : (i : Fin k) -> (HVect ts) -> index i ts
16:27:31 <idris-ircslave> Prelude.List.index : (n : Nat) -> (l : List a) -> (lt n (length l) = True) -> a
16:28:49 <Melvar> Note how HVect.index has Vect.index in its type.
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16:45:19 <itsy> Does anyone here work at Cisco? I'm trying to get hold of someone...
16:49:51 <ion> Wtf? There’s a poll going on to choose one of the three pieces of “art” by students of the local polytechnic to be displayed on the wall of the building seen in the first photo. http://www.aamulehti.fi/Kulttuuri/1194884445935/artikkeli/aanesta+mika+tamk+n+opiskelijoiden+taideteos+paasee+talon+seinalle+.html
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17:20:30 <kmc> http://www.aamulehti.fi/Kulttuuri/1194884445935/artikkeli/aanesta+mika+tamk+n+opiskelijoiden+taideteos+paasee+talon+seinalle+.html
17:20:53 <kmc> ion: wow, wtf indeed
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17:30:03 <Jafet> Better than a giant film poster
17:32:14 <kmc> film posters generate revenue
17:33:04 <kmc> in America there is this weird thing where the adverts outside convenience stores have tiny print signs saying "Win these posters and other prizes, inquire within" as some kind of legal dodge
17:33:08 <kmc> i,i legal doge
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18:07:01 <fizzie> I voted for #3 because I want to see more glitched textures in real life.
18:39:08 <Taneb> Which is better, unfounded hope or unfounded despair?
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19:10:40 <ion> I voted for #1 because le trolling. It would be great to have a huge racist slogan on a prominent wall.
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19:37:07 <ais523> oh, beautiful: there's something of a flamewar going on on comp.lang.c about whether a particular poster is or is not a bot
19:37:27 <ais523> either way, he/she/it seems to be a decent troll, comparing the length of the posts to the lengths of the resulting followups
19:46:44 <fizzie> Is there a name for that metric?
19:48:42 <ais523> ofc it doesn't just measure how good a troll you are, that also depends on how useful the resulting discussion is
19:49:02 <ais523> a perfect troll can use one word to start an infinitely long conversation with no useful content whatsoever
19:49:39 <int-e> or by registering an account
19:50:09 <int-e> (an old favourite, cf. http://www.criticalmiss.com/issue9/troll1.html )
19:51:43 <ais523> huh, trolling has rules
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20:06:18 <itsy> ais523: is that troll Skybuck Flying?
20:07:49 <itsy> ais523: ah okay. I noticed Skybuck (our Core War troll) is also trolling comp.lang.c
20:08:22 <ais523> yeah, I don't think he/she's easily confusable for a markovbot, though
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20:14:11 <itsy> ais523: Unfortunately he floods r.g.cw with pointless posts. It's a pretty quiet newsgroup so we have a very high noise/signal ratio :-( If you google him, he appears to have had a 10+ year trolling career and there's a few Youtube videos which make him appear completely crazy.
20:14:28 <ais523> itsy: such trolls normally change nym after a while
20:14:37 <ais523> to make themselves harder to killfile
20:16:34 <itsy> He's been using the same name for a while. Maybe using multiple names.
20:18:14 <fizzie> Huh, I recognize those names.
20:18:27 <fizzie> (Haven't been reading clc or news in general for the last year or two.)
20:20:22 <itsy> comp.lang.forth also has a bad case of trolls :-(
20:28:07 <Jafet> Trolls don't succeed so much as communities fail.
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20:44:34 <kmc> "Scan the barcode on page 31 or type the bytes on page 32 to get a working Tetris game as an X86 Master Boot Record." https://twitter.com/travisgoodspeed/status/445299465721614336
20:44:41 <kmc> I think this is the kind of publication I would enjoy writing for
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21:06:49 <Bike> kmc: haha. i wonder if anyone's ever wrote thos things so they'd work ok even with a few transcription errors
21:06:58 <kmc> good question
21:07:00 <kmc> I thought about that a little
21:07:13 <kmc> I think it's pretty hard; a lot of single byte errors will produce an invalid instruction
21:08:31 <elliott> you just need enough to implement error correction + self-modify
21:08:39 <ais523> there was a quine posted to Reddit a while ago that would reproduce the original program with any character deleted
21:08:39 <ais523> but allowing for substitutions is much harder
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21:09:15 <ais523> yeah, the best technique in practice is probably to add error correction code and hope that that bit of code works correctly
21:09:29 <ais523> it might be interesting to, say, have two copies of the error correction code that run in parallel
21:09:40 <ais523> and start off by trying to correct errors in each other
21:09:48 <ais523> sort-of like cooperative Core Wars
21:10:06 <Jafet> I wouldn't be surprised if JPL built those already
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21:17:24 <Jafet> In other news, mathematica is fun http://46.4.207.77/solar.gif
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21:23:52 <Sgeo_> Except blatantly not to scale, sun should certainly move across more frequently than it is relative to season change
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21:36:08 <Bike> survivable code is an interesting thing. it's like how the occasional tendency of mutation in DNA is adaptive.
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22:36:42 <ion> http://i.imgur.com/kVASZSk.jpg
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22:44:48 <Bike> imgur needs to stop naming everything .jpg
22:44:59 <ion> Especially .jpegs
22:46:23 <Sgeo_> Bike... my client thinks you're not here
22:47:57 <olsner> Bike: http://i.imgur.com/kVASZSk.png <-- better?
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23:06:58 <Bike> i'm at the point of wanting to complain about linux distributions. is there a cure?
23:07:42 <ais523> Bike: you could write patches for Unity
23:07:49 <ais523> that worked in my case, I'm not sure why though
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