00:00:17 * kmc puzzles through http://z3.codeplex.com/SourceControl/latest#src/api/z3_api.h 00:00:21 this is quite the polyglot 00:05:21 This is quite the 7500-line header 00:11:15 jesus 00:11:19 * copumpkin hugs sbv 00:12:27 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:40:11 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:43:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:43:07 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 01:01:21 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:04:06 -!- JesseH2 has joined. 01:05:29 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 01:06:51 -!- tromp__ has joined. 01:09:02 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 01:13:38 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:39 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:40 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:41 -!- JesseH has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:43 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:43 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:44 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 01:18:25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpy'nut 01:18:36 What about malnourished kids who are allergic to peanuts? 01:19:02 Oh, just saw the article mention that 01:19:31 maybe... there's more than one kind of food..... 01:19:56 -!- lambdabot has joined. 01:20:54 Sgeo_, it is a bit weird to use something so prone to awful side-effects... 01:22:04 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nut_warning_1.jpg BE AFRAID 01:22:38 WARNING SO MANY FUCKING PEANUTS 01:23:11 hehe nuts 01:23:13 I used to be scared to eat peanut products in public because was worried what if someone nearby had an allergy 01:24:10 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:26:34 what changed? 01:27:03 I think multiple people telling me not to worry about it 01:27:12 he became hard-heartedly numb to the fate of his fellow man 01:28:44 I was sick the other day, and in CVS, and a guy with a nasal ... tube, thing goes into the aisle I was in. What if I accidentally caused him to get sick :( 01:29:11 -!- jconn has joined. 01:29:38 nasal tube? you mean the food things? 01:29:45 No 01:29:56 Like, a tube stretching from nose to elsewhere, I think for breathing 01:30:05 oh right those things 01:30:29 well if there was a serious risk do you think he'd be wandering around in public 01:31:02 "Sometimes more significant complications occur including erosion of the nose where the tube is anchored, esophageal perforation, pulmonary aspiration, a collapsed lung, or intracranial placement of the tube." -- wp's article on the food tube things 01:31:09 Usually you have those when you have trouble breathing. 01:31:31 how do you even explain that last one, "yeah the tube that was meant to go in your stomach ended up in your brain" 01:31:48 Illness isn't any *more* of a concern than it would be for any other old man though. 01:32:26 My parents once threatened to get a food tube for me in order to get me to eat 01:34:51 holy shit after trawling the wp article on peanut allergy i found this line in one of the references: 01:35:01 "Usually, eating is both fun and helpful. Sometimes, it is deadly." 01:36:19 makes u think 01:37:08 eating is usually deadly to the eatee 01:43:15 do you often eat live food shachaf 01:45:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:50:03 hm, according to my calculations, both demorgan's law and its negation are true 01:50:07 sounds like trouble 01:50:43 uh oh 01:51:00 which calculations are these 01:51:33 wrong ones 01:51:51 phew 01:59:38 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:06:25 -!- conehead has joined. 02:28:04 fungot: where has everyone gone 02:28:04 kmc: you forgot to exit the program 02:28:12 fungot: oh i guess so 02:28:13 kmc: and i consider myself fairly intelligent, but i 02:28:17 /quit 02:30:07 current status https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl5bhqqUkzo 02:34:22 http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/1031/No-prank-On-Halloween-US-military-forces-train-for-zombie-apocalypse 02:34:59 If people keep using 'zombie apocalypse' to mean unexpected, the training may eventually be ineffective, I think, as it becomes 'expected' for training 02:37:17 http://www.bogleech.com/comics/comic90-zombiefans.htm 02:37:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:40:47 Sgeo_: i don't think that's the point. the point is more that conditions in a zombocalypse are similar to conditions in civil war zones and other civilization collapses 02:42:00 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/21s7bz/one_step_forward_two_steps_back_by_chris_done/ 02:45:23 one cool thing about rust is that the designers have actually heard of the stuff in that list 02:46:41 I can't visualize Rust getting restarts or image-based persistance 02:46:52 right 02:47:11 I didn't say that Rust has all or even most of them 02:47:19 but for the stuff that's missing it's not due to pure ignorance 02:47:24 which is often the case in other languages 02:47:58 the email about why rust doesn't do TCO started with a paragraph that could be more bluntly summarized as "god damnit yes we know what tail calls are and why you want them" 02:49:55 Oh, why doesn't rustc do tco? 02:50:06 (i mean i can see why you might not want to /guarantee/ tco) 02:50:18 https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/003557.html 02:50:35 Bikeshed! 02:51:23 sensible. 02:58:09 Would only interacting with humans via IRC be as bad for mental health as never interacting with humans at all? 02:58:52 Probably not. 03:00:07 ^ 03:00:57 in a short-term / acute sense, interactions on IRC often make me feel a lot better 03:03:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:04:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 03:04:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:05:36 Maybe you could implement only tail calls when mentioned explicitly in the program using a "tail call" command? 03:07:02 (And even then, it shouldn't make it a tail call unless it can actually do that optimization.) 03:07:28 http://extraneato.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Death-Bear.png hell yea 03:07:30 <^v> i made hello world in fishstacks 03:07:37 <^v> but im too lazy to add it to the wiki 03:07:38 <^v> iiisdsiiiiiiiipiiisisipiiisisiiiiiiiipiiisisiiiiiiiipiiisiisddddddddddpiiisddsdddddpiisiisddddpiiissiiiiiipiiisiisddddddddddpiiisiisdddddddpiiisisiiiiiiiipiiisispiisiisdddpppp 03:11:21 pppppppppppppiss 03:11:38 Sgeo_: any reason you ask? 03:33:24 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:44:15 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 04:05:55 Saw something that made me think of it, I forgot what 04:09:33 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:10:02 -!- ^v has joined. 04:31:05 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:31:41 -!- tromp has joined. 04:35:30 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 04:35:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:41:28 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 04:47:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:538_Arborol.png orgo's a hell of a drug 04:48:37 :O 04:49:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Decaferrocenyl_ferrocene.png behold 04:52:22 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 04:53:09 -!- Sellyme has joined. 05:18:28 `coins 05:18:29 wharnandcoin bruermerititcoin p12coin orthycoin barnatacoin prfcovoluckcoin lencercoin ><>coin subechalocoin thisalecoin andcoin relliacoin accingcoin yabatcoin instifcoin dolcoin sqicoin nancoin ontrandatiocoin tropotcoin 05:18:54 why doesn't esotericoin exist yet? 05:20:17 `run tr ' ' '\n' < quotes | shuf -n 50 | tr '\n' ' ' 05:20:18 it a drugs, other likes "can then the who you page being but Kapital some with soup you've -- what in a the sugary #%%:]__t�# just is by Warrigal: machine i’m all of 1146 good "bottle". clearly over well, that's warm of kite if a 05:29:44 -!- tertu has joined. 05:38:36 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:03:12 Sometimes I feel like Haskell playing with laziness is like dynamically typed languages playing with dynamic types... interesting, but not very safe 06:09:21 they didn't so much remove side effects from evaluation as introduce a completely pervasive side effect that doesn't play nice with others 06:11:26 Things like Tardises are ... cool, but ... is laziness the sort of side-effect that could be accessed monadically? 06:11:33 *exclusively monadically 06:11:40 Not sure if that even makes sense, I should be sleeping 06:12:14 what's this about tardises 06:12:35 http://unknownparallel.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/two-implementations-of-seers/ 06:12:47 All this stuff relies heavily on laziness 06:13:04 And 'time paradox' == nontermination 06:13:57 Hmm, not sure what happens if you try to make a paradox of the contradiction kind, instead of the closed loop kind 06:14:46 "For example, see >>= send may cause an explosion of information, trapping you in a time loop." 06:14:54 http://stackoverflow.com/a/11093315/286648 06:40:15 -!- shikhout has joined. 06:41:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:43:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:43:09 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 06:45:33 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:51:49 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 07:01:34 can confirm that the negation of demorgan's law is not true after all 07:02:23 can you confirm that demorgan's law is true 07:02:27 (which one) 07:03:04 conjecture = (iff (not (and k!0 k!1)) (or (not k!0) (not k!1))) 07:03:04 Some(true) 07:04:16 oh, that one doesn't work constructively 07:04:30 not sure if i can believe it :'( 07:04:39 dang 07:05:14 sry 07:05:57 constructively ¬a ∨ ¬b → ¬(a ∧ b) but not the other way? 07:07:01 right 07:07:13 makes sense 07:09:54 what do they call the classical thing where (P -> Q) iff (!P || Q) 07:10:11 maybe they call it "definition of ->" 07:10:50 @type \d -> \(x,y) -> case d of Left f -> f x; Right g -> g y 07:10:50 Either (t1 -> t) (t2 -> t) -> (t1, t2) -> t 07:11:19 @djinn Either (a -> Void) (b -> Void) -> (a, b) -> Void 07:11:19 f a = 07:11:19 case a of 07:11:19 Left b -> \ (c, _) -> b c 07:11:19 Right d -> \ (_, e) -> d e 07:11:41 @djinn ((a, b) -> Void) -> Either (a -> Void) (b -> Void) 07:11:41 -- f cannot be realized. 07:11:48 takes me back 07:11:58 shachaf: i think so 07:12:04 remember when you cared about things like that 07:12:05 good times 07:12:12 i still care :'( 07:12:27 cared enough to devote significant attention and time to it, i mean 07:12:44 yeah 07:13:07 i haven't done it much in a while either 07:13:09 i devote attention and time to other things though, so it's all good 07:13:24 it's exists good 07:14:29 i feel like maybe i should go in the direction of more maths rather than less, though 07:14:32 who knows 07:14:49 i'm writing Rust bindings for Z3 07:15:27 i went to a talk about smt solvers and haskell this month 07:15:42 with some kind of macro for quasiquoting Z3 expressions probably 07:15:51 is rust stable now 07:15:52 how was the talk? 07:15:54 not really 07:16:00 there will be a 1.0 release this year 07:16:02 it was good 07:16:33 by stable i don't mean will my programs continue to run so much as will everything i know become useless/wrong/obsolete 07:16:44 hm 07:16:45 like it did since last summerish when i looked at rust before 07:16:54 less so now, I think 07:17:13 the deepest & most novel concepts haven't changed in a while, but maybe you already understand those 07:17:40 one of the big upcoming changes is that the type system will support dynamically sized types 07:17:55 http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2014/01/05/dst-take-5/ 07:30:59 Z3 is fancy 07:34:10 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:45:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:49:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:03:14 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 08:03:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:33:03 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:53:56 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:55:46 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:56:28 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:06:24 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:21:21 -!- JesseH2 has changed nick to JesseH. 09:23:28 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 09:24:17 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:25:24 -!- variable has joined. 10:13:17 -!- boily has joined. 10:32:59 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:33:18 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:40:16 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:41:49 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:45:37 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:46:57 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:46:57 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Client Quit). 10:49:16 FRABJOUS DAY! 10:49:28 today is the day oots returns! 10:49:32 and 0.14 is out too! 10:49:33 ooh 10:52:06 boily: outgrabious! 10:59:51 -!- yorick has joined. 11:01:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STICKY CHICKEN). 11:27:01 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 11:28:16 -!- password2 has joined. 11:32:50 "Without access to a lot of source code I can’t tell exactly what is going on, but here’s what I know. If you run the compiler with the /analyze option then it loads mspft120.dll – the /analyze DLL. Then mspft120 loads msxml6.dll to load an XML configuration file. Then msxml6 loads urlmon.dll to open the stream, and finally urlmon loads mshtml.dll. Then mshtml.dll creates a window, ... 11:32:55 ... because that’s what it does." 11:32:58 http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/you-got-your-web-browser-in-my-compiler/ 11:33:01 (Nice story.) 12:20:33 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:22:04 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit). 12:22:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:23:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:36:49 http://imgur.com/gallery/ltMAjH1 12:37:24 -!- spiette has joined. 12:39:30 -!- jconn has joined. 12:40:14 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:42:18 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:43:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:43:08 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:45:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 12:45:49 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:49:02 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:49:27 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 12:50:32 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:54:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:11:11 -!- password2 has joined. 13:18:03 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:25:41 -!- tertu has joined. 13:25:46 -!- tertu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:57:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:07:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:08:07 -!- augur has joined. 15:13:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:29:19 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:29:27 -!- myname has joined. 15:57:04 -!- zom-b|zz has changed nick to Zom-B|aw. 15:57:06 -!- Zom-B|aw has changed nick to Zom-B. 16:05:36 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:06:38 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:06:45 -!- augur has joined. 16:15:52 ^style oots 16:15:52 Selected style: oots (Order Of The Stick) 16:15:57 fungot: Say something appropriate. 16:15:57 fizzie: i see. but how were you so arrogant as to assume that is was going. a classic i like, and you, the gods, that makes us all one big evil team here, my snuggly green cutie-pie! 16:16:08 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:16:30 fungot: Who's arrogant? 16:16:30 mroman: i am, i am, i am the leader and strategic plan in the morning" to you, and the success of my magic, you know that no one leaves. he is still your brother and, apparently, there, about that... the cleric skipped to the part about the oath" story is just that. 16:16:39 well... there you have it. 16:16:43 fungot is arrogant 16:16:43 mroman: see, the thing that was making this even sporting was your big spectacular compromise that would allow any bandit that defeated 16:16:53 I see. 16:16:59 no wonder I don't like him. 16:18:14 fungot: Are you pronounced fungoat? 16:18:14 mroman: a good way, and our little dog, too. cool" monsters may have moved in by answering the riddles" thing, sir, and i see now that it's any of that honey marinade right here, and the illusion that this was the place and have come to aid you in keeping your business. 16:18:47 as in fun + goat 16:20:28 -!- ^v has joined. 16:26:46 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:36:23 -!- Vorpal has joined. 16:38:48 Well... after rebooting I cannot reproduce the graphical issues I had yesterday. Good I guess? 16:56:58 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:57:23 -!- augur has joined. 17:04:32 12:07 < kmc> did you try turning it off and then on again? 17:04:32 12:07 < Vorpal> kmc, very funny 17:09:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:11:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:12:56 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:15:41 wow 17:15:45 I just discovered something crazy 17:15:51 well 17:16:06 It's beautiful alright 17:17:16 kmc, heh yeah XD 17:17:28 kmc, I booted windows in between too 17:17:44 kmc, anyway I'm still worried about the hardware.. 17:22:54 mroman, oh? 17:23:14 fizzie, nice photos 17:23:29 i once had a monitor that needed to be rebooted to remove graphics corruption 17:24:03 I'm gonna upload it as a video :) 17:24:33 Vorpal: Did you see the nonnegative matrix factorization one? 17:24:36 kmc, it was the GPU though, since I have a multi-head setup and it happened across both monitors 17:24:46 fizzie, I saw this: http://zem.fi/2014-03-25-tl 17:24:52 fizzie, thanks to lambdabot 17:25:12 don't see any matrix there 17:25:46 Vorpal: Right, I've been fiddling with different ways of aggregating the frames, but haven't yet written them up. Here's the NMF one: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140331-nmf.jpg 17:26:00 fizzie, pretty, how does it work? 17:26:13 Looks like time of day / weather 17:27:14 That's kind of how it ends up, though technically it's the four basis vectors of a rank-4 nonnegative factorization of the 33 source images. Or in English, the set of four images that's best (according to some cost function) if you want to represent all 33 images as a weighted sum of some 4 images. 17:27:38 fancy! 17:28:06 You can see e.g. that the lower-left image has the sun in it, so the lower-right one has gotten a "negasun" that can help when representing an overcast day. 17:28:20 And the top-left image is useful for putting snow on the ground. 17:28:31 fizzie, the "second view, raw average..." looks kind of other-worldly wrt the plants 17:28:39 Of course that's just late interpretation, the algorithm doesn't care. 17:29:04 fizzie, with some colour curve enhancing to bring up the saturation it could be really pretty 17:29:45 fizzie, what is a negasun? 17:30:03 fizzie, also what about the top-right? 17:30:10 in your interpretation 17:30:31 Well, a dark blob where the sun was in the other image. See, when you sum up the bottom row, they annihilate. (And release energy?) 17:30:53 hm 17:30:55 darn it 17:30:56 I guess the top-right is just a useful component image for blue skies. 17:32:02 fizzie, how did the dark-spot thing happen? 17:32:09 sun from behind?? 17:32:28 No, doesn't make sense 17:32:54 It just falls out of the algorithm, when I feed it both sunny days and overcast days; none of the NMF images are really "real". 17:33:15 Heh 17:33:46 I did do some histogram equalization on the plain averages to make them less bland, and they looked quite nice; I just didn't upload those yet because it was done in Gimp after clamping to 8 bits per pixel color depth, and there was quite a lot of banding; I'll try to do it "properly" at some point. (I guess non-devel Gimp still hasn't heard of higher color depths?) 17:33:51 fizzie, looked at the rest of your site, that x86 opcode generator is quite amusing 17:34:18 Ah yeah 17:34:25 After a #esoteric suggestion, I made an IUPAC chemical name generator too: http://zem.fi/tmp/iupac.html 17:34:32 fizzie, according to the generator, a future instruction will be "AI" 17:35:45 The IUPAC generator has an unavoidable (due to the method) habit of generating silly-short names like "5-5" or "6" quite often, but it also does plausible ones. 17:36:00 Well, plausible to a non-chemist, anyway. 17:36:09 I'm sure they mostly make no physical sense at all. 17:36:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfn1Waxo5wc&feature=youtu.be 17:36:49 ^- there we go 17:38:01 mroman, what is it? 17:38:46 Some sort of cellular thingy 17:41:37 It looks funny :) 17:58:19 -!- augur has joined. 18:03:17 , yay. 18:08:38 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:33:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:53 "The city of Seattle just imposed new limits on commercial app-based ride-sharing companies like Uber and Lyft, effectively protecting taxi companies from low-cost competition in the form of smartphone apps." 18:35:59 That's certainly interesting. 18:36:41 That's actually the first case of banning technology to protect old technology because it would lots of jobs in danger I know 18:37:51 really? I feel like that kind of thing is common 18:38:06 unions often fight against improved efficiency for this reason 18:38:30 also it's not clearly about jobs -- those drivers could work for Uber or Lyft instead 18:38:56 new technologies are often used as an opportunity by all sides to try to renegotiate regulations etc 18:38:59 I don't know about Seattle but in NYC, taxi medallions are an investment vehicle, worth millions of dollars and usually not owned by the driver or the cab company 18:39:05 If they are offered a salary comparable to their current one. 18:39:25 so often taxi regulation is about protecting the value of this investment for the people who already hold it 18:39:30 \rainbow{PROPERTY RIGHTS} 18:39:32 mroman: cab drivers aren't salaried anywhere i've heard of 18:39:58 I don't know much about taxis in the US though 18:40:10 It's very uncommon in switzerland to use a taxi :) 18:40:22 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:40:35 too expensive and there's public transport 18:40:43 well i imagine in switzerland a taxi ride costs about as much as acquiring whatsapp 18:40:54 haha 18:40:55 and public transit costs about as much as taxis most places 18:42:13 3.80 per Kilometer 18:42:23 that'd cost me about 38 CHF to get to town :) 18:42:33 compared to 12 CHF I'd have to pay for the bus 18:42:36 mroman: i would say, for example, that most tariffs and other restrictions on foreign trade are a form of banning/restricting technology in order to protect certain jobs 18:43:04 lexande: but it's not directly a ban against technology 18:43:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:43:08 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:43:17 it's more of a ban against massive cheap productions 18:43:19 well i suspect the seattle thing is not a direct ban either 18:43:43 but rather a set of restrictions designed to make it uneconomical 18:44:06 (the technology in the trade case being the ever-cheaper ways of shipping things) 18:44:13 an app that lets you call cabs from your phone isn't much of a "technology" either 18:44:17 it's more of a business model 18:44:35 sort of 18:44:47 it's usually about how you use technology :) 18:44:51 I mean labeling every company that has a website or a phone app as a "technology company" is pretty silly 18:44:54 because that's every company now 18:45:00 it is common usage, though 18:45:04 the internet wasn't really of anyone's privacy concern until facebook showed up :D 18:45:39 kmc: 3d printers is the next big thing 18:45:50 Depending on how they develop you can produce your own stuff at home 18:46:09 mroman: another example i'm familiar with, lightweight trains are illegal in the US for "safety" reasons 18:46:17 that'd probably will have a large impact on stuff 18:46:26 what's a lightweight train? 18:46:27 even though they are used in europe in asia and are empirically safer than trains in the US 18:47:02 so trains for use in the US have to be built specifically for the US market, generally at factories in the US 18:47:14 rather than just importing whatever from europe or japan 18:47:56 there are several reasons for this but protecting US jobs is one of them 18:49:16 trains that don't weigh as much as other trains :3 18:49:38 conversely i think that a desire to protect european agriculture and associated jobs is a significant (though not the only) reason for european hostility to GMO crops 18:50:28 there's a cultural reason too 18:50:38 yes there are other reasons too, in all of these cases 18:50:41 people are afraid of genetically modified stuff 18:51:04 um 18:51:08 and the christians obviously. They don't like it either 18:51:24 "christians" are generally more politically powerful in the US 18:51:25 The Finnish Taxi Owners Federation wrote a press release that they don't see any need for a thing like Uber in Finland, because they already have a couple smartphone apps for ordering a taxi. 18:51:44 in holland we have this thing called #D Hubs which effectively connects people with 3d printers at home with people that need prints (making competition with companies such as shapeways) 18:51:52 3D Hubs* 18:51:53 fizzie: so if the existing cartel doesn't see a need, we should ban it? 18:52:09 -!- augur_ has joined. 18:52:13 not sure what's so great about 3D printers 18:52:22 i can't remember the last time i bought something that could be 3D printed 18:52:45 i guess when the palmrest of my laptop broke two years ago? 18:52:53 christians here are also powerful 18:52:58 just not as crazy as in the us ;) 18:53:01 lexande: Well, at least according to their interpretation (which does sound reasonable) it was already banned here before it even existed, in that it's not compatible with the regulations; I guess they're just saying there's no need to go changing those rules. 18:53:04 i heard people saay that they dont see the need in programming anything becacuse everything is available already (those were windows people, mind you)' 18:53:14 3d printing is the same as programming 18:53:25 fizzie: how much do taxis cost in finland? 18:53:36 uberx in SF is under $1 per km 18:53:44 Zom-B: Are you playing soldat? 18:53:49 wat? 18:53:53 the 2d game? 18:54:08 holy shit new enemy starfighter trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_U2MdCdaR4 18:54:10 *googling* 18:54:17 ...oops wrong channel but still 18:54:19 If you have to google it that's probably a "no" ;) 18:54:21 lexande: Quite a lot. It's about 40 euros to take a taxi from home to the airport (the only thing we use them for, really), and I think that's something like 15-20 km. 18:54:30 Zom-B: i'm not saying that 3D printing is not needed because it provides things i can already get other ways, i'm saying that i don't see how it provides anything i would want ever 18:54:41 looks like worms 18:54:55 It just so happened that someone with your nick was on a public server some minutes ago :D 18:55:17 Apparently 1.52 €/km (for 1-2 persons) in addition to the base costs and airport fees and whatnot. 18:55:28 you make custom things, as opposed to hacking things together with scrap and household tools 18:55:42 see it like programming instead of chaining and piping linux commands 18:55:46 fizzie: hmm that's pretty good 18:55:56 I guess that's about twice the price. 18:55:57 Zom-B: but i never hack things together with scrap and household tools 18:56:05 what things would i ever make that way? 18:56:12 see hackaday.com 18:56:39 maybe not the best example site because they use lots of electronics 18:58:04 homebrew electronics projects are sometimes cool, though a lot of them will still basically be useless trinkets 18:58:47 but the vast majority of 3D printed things seem to be useless trinkets 18:59:29 they do, if you go to one of those model sites 18:59:30 for now 18:59:33 i never look at that crap 18:59:40 sure 18:59:50 tell me something i could conceivably 3D print that i actually want 19:00:14 a spoon? 19:00:21 lexande: are you arguing against the general utility of 3D printers or just your personal need for one? 19:00:25 i dont know what you want, so i can name 10 things and you can argue about every one that there is an alternative 19:00:41 or... maybe some gunz? 19:00:48 I have a cool glow-in-the-dark 3D printed light fixture in my living room 19:00:52 it may be a "useless trinket" 19:00:57 mroman: one-shot-only guns? 19:01:02 well 19:01:06 if you're skilled... 19:01:09 you can 3D print an AR-15 lower receiver 19:01:12 one shot is the only one you need 19:01:26 though i agree that most 3d printer owners print 'gadgets' that only exist for coolness 19:01:47 anyway lexande this is like when you argued there is no reason for anybody to ever cook at home because you, personally, don't care about food quality or price or variety or convenience 19:01:50 kmc: i mean, the technology is cool and there are definitely uses, i just don't think it's particulary "transformative" 19:02:12 kmc: and i'm arguing a strong version of that because i'm contrarian 19:02:16 I think home 3D printing is in the Altair 8800 stage right now 19:02:20 also a useless trinket 19:02:51 i dont own 3d printer and never really had any ideas about what to print myself 19:02:52 (what, i do care about price, that is why i eat 99¢ pizza) 19:03:04 but i once designed a replacement piece for a tabletop game where a piece was broken so a friend could print it 19:03:23 yeah 19:03:33 that seems like a good use case 19:03:46 and i am glad 3D printers are becoming cheaper and more available for that kind of use case 19:04:35 then i designed a toothbrush holder, failed a bit with the lid tolerances, but he practically begged it to put the designs online because there were so many requests 19:05:10 but to compare them to the altair 8800 is to suggest that in a few decades they will be completely pervasive and everyone will use one on a daily basis and be unable to imagine life without it with many people centering their whole lives around it 19:05:46 and i can't imagine this, am i missing something? 19:06:01 well some people imagine a world where you can print anything non-electronic that you now have to buy 19:06:06 I have a model train enthusiast friend who's printed some spare parts or some-such at the library; that seems like another rather natural use case. 19:06:09 from travel games to flower vases 19:07:55 50 years ago when the only printed paper was offset-pressed, did they think that they needed to do that at home? 19:07:58 3D printing has a high medical-use potential 19:07:58 (Fun fact: a printout from the library 3D printer costs the same amount -- 0.40 eur -- as a copy of a sheet of paper.) 19:08:02 (Though it's this experimental "showcase" / "makerspace" thing-kind-of-a-place, and not, you know, a standard feature in all local libraries.) 19:09:53 Zom-B: i mean, i struggle to think of non-electronic non-food things i buy. clothes i guess? is it suggested those would mostly be 3D printed? 19:10:23 comb? 19:10:58 though i saw a 3d printed version irl, that looked like a torture tool 19:11:11 lexande: Guns, of course. 19:11:27 i guess i own a comb, and some bowls and such, once-a-decade purchases 19:11:35 3D printing is also transformative in product design and prototyping 19:11:56 i guess electronics or mechanics isn't any of your hobbies 19:12:11 cos those people love 3d printed enclosures 19:12:11 lexande: "i struggle to think of non-electronic non-food things i buy" <--- exhibit A that you are not most people 19:13:04 People who love 3D-printed enclosures aren't most people either, though. 19:13:06 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:13:52 i see on shapeways (which can print much higher quality than a makerbot, and in metal) they have lots of jewelry 19:14:50 Isn't it kind of curious that VR and 3D printing are both the (alleged) Next Big Thing, even though they're kind of opposites? 19:15:36 One takes you to the place where the 3D models live, and the other brings 3D models back to where you live, after all. 19:15:52 both involve giant penis scupltures, though 19:16:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:16:22 Both will be (are?) used for porn, too; there's that. 19:16:41 VR? 19:16:50 fizzie: right, but I think there are a lot of separate use cases for 3D printing and they might add up to a lot of people (if not most), even if lexande falls outside all of them 19:17:20 mroman: Virtual reality. 19:17:26 oh. 19:17:36 douglass_ has some textile-working equipment that she designed and I produced on a laser cutter 19:17:36 I honestly don't see that coming :) 19:17:55 mroman: A lot of people do, though. (See: Sony, and the Facebook Oculus acquisition.) 19:18:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:18:09 Yeah 19:18:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:18:15 I had the honor to look through an oculus 19:18:33 i was recruited by an oculus-like google designer 19:18:38 it was very pixelish 19:18:45 but they told me the new versions gonna be better :) 19:18:47 goggle designer*! 19:18:54 damn finger memory 19:18:55 From what I've heard, it's a lot more immersive with the latest prototypes that do head-tracking. 19:18:56 in akihabara I played some kind of game where you used an oculus and a leap motion controller to grope anime girls 19:19:03 it's possible that I was playing it wrong 19:19:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:19:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:19:35 so.. 19:19:38 virtual porn then? 19:19:46 lol in japan i also played some 2d immersive game at the uni, with mechas and stuff 19:19:48 that's certainly one use case of stuff 19:19:50 3d 19:20:22 mroman: that picelishness comes from low resolution phones 19:20:30 try again with the new 2560x1440 phone 19:21:33 kmc: where are you from? 19:21:55 Phone? 19:24:21 -!- BeingUntoDeath has joined. 19:25:08 `olist 947 19:25:08 olist 947: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily 19:25:27 http://www.cnet.com/news/oppo-debuts-worlds-first-5-5-inch-quad-hd-find-7/ 19:25:54 looking forward to playing all my old Virtual Boy games again 19:25:56 VR headsets aren't made out of phones. 19:26:14 Same kind of display panels, sure, but that doesn't make them phones. 19:26:45 what is the freaking point of going about 200, perhaps 300 dpi? 19:27:03 i thought you talked about oculus rift and stuff 19:27:54