00:19:26 <Taneb> If you are running to give someone a hug
00:19:36 <Taneb> And they look like they are preparing to rugby tackle you
00:19:41 <Taneb> Abort hug immediately.
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00:20:33 <Taneb> Seriously, my jaw still hurts
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00:27:06 <elliott> fizzie: esolangs.org is down
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01:02:40 <coppro> I should register theenemysgate.ca and point it to an IP address that doesn't have a server
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01:09:12 <david_werecat> Opinion based question: it is a good idea to change your online name? If one were to do this, what would they need to do and what would be the implications of this?
01:11:06 <fowl> david_werecat, youll need new profile pictures too. just get them from your most handsome facebook friend
01:12:56 <david_werecat> Bascially, I'm thinking of changing my many online accounts from david_werecat to Cyskus.
01:13:31 <fowl> did you check the inernet nickname registry to make sure cyskus isnt taken
01:14:03 <david_werecat> Currenly it does not exist anywhere that Google can find.
01:14:04 <Bike> i've changed names a billion times, mon
01:14:27 <fowl> there is a form you should fill out and submit to ICANN
01:14:58 <elliott> david_werecat: you know this channel is publicly logged and indexed by google, right? :P
01:16:13 <david_werecat> Still, letting everyone know how to find your new account is another reason I'm here.
01:16:51 <david_werecat> Carrying information forward between iterations is the most difficult part.
01:18:05 <fowl> Bike, so those metal things i find when i google you arent you, they're some previous bike?
01:18:23 <Bike> yes, i'm actually made of organic compounds
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05:20:56 <Sgeo> I got my GF addicted to Suzumiya Haruhi
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05:54:08 <zzo38> Once I used Huffman for abnormal purpose; I wanted to encode a bit string in alphabetics so I made up a Huffman tree for twenty-six equally probability data.
05:57:48 <zzo38> What is it called to do such things as this?
05:58:46 <Bike> "Huffman for abnormal purpose"
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07:00:15 <Sgeo> http://www.lessmilk.com/games/12/
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07:14:28 <lambdabot> unexpected '.': expecting digit, operator or end of input
07:15:56 <oerjan> clearly it should use poisson distribution to approximate @dice 1000d1.001
07:17:03 <lambdabot> oerjan: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 => 21
07:18:01 <oerjan> so we have a calculator with a d prefix
07:20:10 <lambdabot> unexpected '(': expecting digit, operator or end of input
07:22:27 <shachaf> oerjan: that's a p. misleading calculator when your calculation doesn't happen to start with a 1
07:22:28 <fizzie> elliott: Not any more, apparently.
07:22:59 <oerjan> `addquote <Taneb> Have some advice! <Taneb> If you are running to give someone a hug <Taneb> And they look like they are preparing to rugby tackle you <Taneb> Abort hug immediately. <Taneb> Seriously, my jaw still hurts
07:23:00 <HackEgo> 1192) <Taneb> Have some advice! <Taneb> If you are running to give someone a hug <Taneb> And they look like they are preparing to rugby tackle you <Taneb> Abort hug immediately. <Taneb> Seriously, my jaw still hurts
07:23:34 <shachaf> what does it mean when my scalp itches a ot
07:23:49 <oerjan> shachaf: i guess technically it has a d1 infix, to be placed after any number inside
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07:25:11 <oerjan> shachaf: either you need a better dandruff shampoo, or you're allergic to something (i've experienced both)
07:25:37 <oerjan> in spring, in seattle, i think it was the trees.
07:25:37 <shachaf> what happens when you're allergic to dandruff shampoo
07:25:51 <oerjan> shachaf: too horrible to contemplate
07:26:47 <oerjan> i was at canada in 1995 hth
07:27:10 <oerjan> (and australia in 1988)
07:27:34 <oerjan> that exhausts the times i've been outside europe, i think.
07:29:12 <oerjan> actually i'm pretty sure i'm "allergic" to the strongest dandruff shampoo, which i use once a week.
07:29:28 <oerjan> the rest of the week i use head & shoulders
07:29:52 <oerjan> also, my scalps itches when i think about this
07:31:00 <oerjan> why can't they make sound isolation that isolates against humans speaking loudly
07:31:03 <b_jonas> zzo38: why don't you use arithmetic coding for that? I mean, huffman to 26 letters would be very wasteful unless your input has lots of symbols, because you have to encode very common symbols with a single letter.
07:31:51 <oerjan> also, carpenting and loud bass music
07:32:21 <oerjan> basically, why is sound isolation imperfect.
07:32:52 <b_jonas> oerjan: http://www.xkcd.com/666/ ?
07:33:51 <fizzie> oerjan: It will be okay after we remove your ears and replace them with something that has a firmware upload function hth
07:34:27 <b_jonas> fizzie: like http://www.xkcd.com/644/ ?
07:39:36 <oerjan> @ask coppro <coppro> I should register theenemysgate.ca and point it to an IP address that doesn't have a server <-- what about a server that responds to pings, but _nothing_ else twh
07:39:45 <Jafet> All a dream of http://www.xtcian.com/CalvinHobbesNailTable%28bl%29.jpg
07:41:10 <Jafet> A server that communicates by the length of time it waits before closing incoming connections
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07:48:16 <oerjan> <Sgeo> http://www.lessmilk.com/games/12/ <-- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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07:53:19 <oerjan> darn i had 28 when i gave up
07:53:50 <oerjan> games that give me nausea: -1
08:00:49 <fizzie> That reminds me of that one #drugz game.
08:00:56 <fizzie> I forget what its name was.
08:02:00 <fizzie> (See Google image search for a good overview.)
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08:57:40 <Jafet> That is pretty #drugz.
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10:37:14 <myname> why do i die whenever i collect the dot after it rotated a little? Oo
10:43:54 <int-e> white on light grey, seriously?!
10:48:54 <oerjan> myname: i don't recall that happening.
10:49:23 <fizzie> I keep getting killed when it rotates a whole lot instead of a little bit.
10:49:29 <fizzie> After 40, and esp. after 45.
10:49:32 <oerjan> myname: possibly you get confused about which keys turn which way?
10:49:53 <myname> oerjan: no, i move in circles a bit to make sure
10:50:19 * oerjan doesn't feel like trying that game again
10:50:35 <fizzie> I've tried it twice now, and gotten 41 and 46.
10:50:54 <fizzie> Also, I liked the "white on bright yellow" even less than "white on light gray".
10:52:44 * oerjan plays some 2048 just to be anti-hipster (and also because he hasn't managed to win it yet ihrc)
10:53:03 <myname> oerjan: how many dimensions?
10:53:37 <oerjan> the 3d i tried was too easy
10:54:33 <myname> you may try 4d or 5d :p
10:55:43 <FreeFull> oerjan: You should play flappy 2048
10:56:47 <Taneb> FreeFull, I played too much of that
10:58:51 <int-e> wrong game, sorry, I should read more context
10:59:57 <fizzie> Taneb: There are at least two different flappy2048s.
11:00:19 <Taneb> http://flappy2048.com/ this one
11:00:28 <fizzie> Right, there's also http://hczhcz.github.io/Flappy-2048/
11:00:47 <fizzie> I got that as first hit the other day, and flappy2048.com as the second.
11:00:53 <fizzie> Today it seems the other way around.
11:03:15 <myname> i do think both are crap
11:03:17 <oerjan> ok i can confirm they're both awful hth
11:03:38 <fizzie> My printer keeps getting paper jams. :/
11:05:01 <oerjan> clearly you should convert to virtual printing hth
11:05:30 <myname> just invent paperless printers
11:06:34 <oerjan> london has only had mayors since 2000?
11:12:56 <oerjan> ah. not to be confused with the Lord Mayor of London.
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11:16:35 <oerjan> "A female Lord Mayor or an unmarried male Lord Mayor may appoint a female consort, usually a fellow member of the corporation, to the role of Lady Mayoress."
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11:17:08 <fizzie> If I print using the manual feeder, it doesn't jam, but it writes "x0Y" on the top-left corner, and scales the actual printout to occur in the bottom-right two-thirds of the page.
11:18:10 <Jafet> This calls for a four-pass printing process
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11:18:40 <oerjan> the thou shall not pass process
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11:26:44 <Jafet> Gamut the Grey, protector of the halftones, wielder of the flame of Linotype
11:26:46 <fizzie> Should've printed all this stuff at work, instead of trying to do it here at home.
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11:38:37 <int-e> does the crazy snake game start doing arbitrary affine transformations at some point (including reflections?)
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12:05:58 <fungot> Jafet: i think it would be nice, if scheme is then forth is that you can keep that nic for now if you meet someone who's smarter than you look
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12:20:16 <int-e> b_jonas: http://www.lessmilk.com/games/12/
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14:20:21 <boily> according to past topics, we have >100% bots, and we increasingly speak in French. fungot, parles-tu français?
14:20:21 <fungot> boily: you want to bind it locally and then return :) here's my attempt at aesthetics
14:20:45 <boily> fungot: local language binding... and EDSL, then?
14:20:45 <fungot> boily: fnord/ 2008/ 02/ fnord/ fnord
14:21:03 <boily> fungot: ah. the monadic fnord composition.
14:21:03 <fungot> boily: so... i suck at them somewhere in arithmetica! loophole!
14:21:48 <boily> fungot: you suck fungots between numbers? isn't that a bit... morally wrong?
14:21:48 <fungot> boily: off the top of the stack
14:22:00 <boily> fungot: blertch! that's gross!
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16:43:26 <HackEgo> nandecoin brograinscoin avercoin wikillcoin gildcoin nuouslykelxxvhis=thacoin sothropofedenentertastomialcoin ]coin divilcoin beckocoin ntcycoin autocoin orkcoin restcoin gigationcoin hargdcoin spaldcoin finingthis=thacoin cation2coin kollocoin
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16:53:43 <b_jonas> so-thropo-fedenen-tertas-tomial-coin
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18:20:41 <HackEgo> glassenborcoin fernandballycoin councoin misccoin ortlcoin binalcoin vaggonataeterberinglebrahildmenstricoin twofifcoin gotcoin calcoin majorgh!coin 0x2000coin tinycoin alpinkeymakicoin sendecoin pavlcoin nooncoin heliumcoin cescoin splcoin
18:21:04 <myname> ah, that's easy to remember! vaggonataeterberinglebrahildmenstricoin
18:22:09 <kmc> strategic heliumcoin reserve
18:22:39 <kmc> when i was a small child people seemed to be very impressed that I could spell "antidisestablishmentarianism" and knew what it means
18:23:08 <kmc> it's not even close to the longest English word, though
18:23:35 <oerjan> if we're going to have just one command with excessive colors i prefer `relcome to `coins hth
18:24:17 <oerjan> copumpkin: *r*ainbow w*elcome*
18:24:48 <oerjan> also, *was, it was deleted
18:25:32 <oerjan> FreeFull: it's _stable_ but it keeps seeping out of your wallet
18:25:49 <Bike> the longest word is methionyl[etc]isoleucine, obviously
18:26:01 <FreeFull> oerjan: You need to store it in a gas canister
18:26:11 <oerjan> FreeFull: even those seep helium
18:26:22 <oerjan> there's no known storage method that doesn't
18:27:01 <FreeFull> It's better than hydrogen though
18:27:52 <kmc> i wonder what's the longest English word that isn't built from smaller forms that would be known to the average speaker
18:28:20 <oerjan> kmc: i think that's still methionyl[etc]isoleucine
18:28:27 <kmc> maybe that doesn't count
18:29:05 * kmc comes up with a way to encode arbitrary binary data as syntactically valid sequences of word-parts
18:30:24 <Bike> well methionine isn't really known to the average speaker :V
18:32:09 <Bike> kind of funny that it begins literally every polypeptide, but hey
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19:57:22 <BlueProtoman> Where does the input to a counter machine go, and how do we know if said counter machine accepts or rejects the input?
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19:57:55 <oerjan> BlueProtoman: in the counters
19:58:26 <BlueProtoman> oerjan: Ah, so if I were to reserve a counter for the input, I could Godel-encode a string and it'd be like a Turing machine?
20:00:13 <BlueProtoman> (Assume the Lambek instruction set; inc, dec, jz, and halt)
20:01:14 <oerjan> BlueProtoman: you need 2 counters for tc-ness
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20:01:44 <oerjan> although you need to encode the string extra for that to work
20:02:26 <oerjan> basically, first you encode your string as one counter value, then you encode all your starting counter values as 2
20:02:28 <BlueProtoman> oerjan: So the first goes to the Godel-encoded input, the second goes to what? The current state?
20:02:42 <oerjan> no the state is separate
20:03:03 <oerjan> although, look at fractran
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20:03:27 <BlueProtoman> Why would I start off all the counters but one (which goes to input) with 2?
20:03:42 <oerjan> the second may start as 0, it is only there as intermediate storage.
20:04:21 <BlueProtoman> Oh, OK. I always thought that the states were maintained only with the counters--counter machines have their own FSMs like Turing machines or PDAs do?
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20:05:56 <oerjan> although you _can_ encode the state too, that's how you program in fractran.
20:06:31 <BlueProtoman> So then let's say I want to simulate a 2-counter machine with a 2-stack PDA (or vice versa). Does this mean I first have to push the input to one of the stacks (and equivalently, Godel-encode the input in one of the counters) before I can do anything?
20:06:32 <oerjan> but then you still have the fractran state of where you are in the list of fractions. and then you can encode all that as 2 counters.
20:07:08 <BlueProtoman> Because I'm assuming classic counter machines don't have a notion of an input tape like a Turing machine or even a PDA does, does it?
20:07:10 <oerjan> well PDA's generally have input as well, don't they.
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20:07:43 <oerjan> you can add an input command of course. but you don't need it for TC-ness once you have encoded the starting input as a counter.
20:08:40 <BlueProtoman> OK. So that first counter == whatever input the stack machine gets. Push to stack si == increase counter ci by the next prime number to the power of its Godel mapping?
20:11:49 <int-e> you can implement a 2 stack pda quite naturally with 3 counters, then simulate those with 2 counters using Gödel tricks, e.g. 2^a3^b5^c.
20:12:21 <BlueProtoman> Yeah, that I get--one stack goes to the input, the others just correspond to uni-symbol stacks.
20:14:59 <oerjan> this does remind me of the work i did on 3-cell brainfuck. i found out how to load input into the cell but not how to print the output properly afterwards.
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20:17:26 <oerjan> 3-cell brainfuck is almost like 2-counter machine, but slightly more cramped so you cannot do a full fsa directly.
20:18:34 <myname> haskell question: does anybody know how to make more than one expression for the same branch in a case?
20:18:44 <oerjan> (every time you end a loop a cell must be 0, so you have only 2 cells you can preserve throughout)
20:18:47 <kmc> what would that mean myname
20:19:10 <myname> case somechar of <'x' or 'y'> -> ...
20:19:20 <oerjan> that's not expression, that's pattern.
20:19:39 <oerjan> and you cannot. well maybe with the newest extensions.
20:20:19 <oerjan> in that case you can use e.g. a guard
20:20:28 <kmc> yeah it's too bad
20:20:37 <kmc> Rust allows that, but its patterns are worse in other ways
20:21:14 <oerjan> it's a faq, pretty sure i saw it on SO the other day.
20:21:54 <int-e> oerjan: do you know of a proof that 2-cell brainfuck is not Turing complete?
20:22:09 <oerjan> hm i had an evil idea.
20:22:11 <Jafet> x | x .&. (ord 'x' .|. ord 'y') < 2 ->
20:22:45 <myname> cannot express how ugly that is
20:22:52 <kmc> it's also not correct in general, is it?
20:22:57 <oerjan> int-e: hm my memory is vague but i think maybe you can enumerate all the possibilities for what a program can do then.
20:23:26 <Jafet> It's correct in admiral
20:23:58 <oerjan> hm what if you combine pattern guards with lambdacase?
20:24:14 <oerjan> no, not pattern guards
20:24:46 <zzo38> That is too bad that you cannot make such a pattern; it should make such an extension, I think it would be a good idea. You can already make a case block with multiple choices to the same branch in C and in BASIC.
20:25:06 <Jafet> > (\case 'x' -> Just 'x'; 'y' -> Just 'y'; _ -> Nothing -> Just x -> x) 'x'
20:25:07 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:3: parse error on input ‘case’
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20:26:35 <oerjan> ityn ((\case 'x' -> True; 'y' -> True; _ -> False) -> True)
20:26:40 <int-e> oerjan: Actually, intuitively I'd expect that it is TC, because 2 counter machines run into the same limitation: they loop (or terminate quickly) until one of the counters reaches 0, then they can branch off.
20:26:56 <kmc> Rust hasn't got pattern guards :/
20:27:03 <kmc> except they call the regular guards "pattern guards" which is mega confusing
20:27:34 <lambdabot> dark says: <shapr> for example: "head (filter (\x -> x > 5) [1..])" <shapr> in a strict language, you can't easily play with infinite lists <dark> In a strict language, you would write that as "6" :)
20:27:37 <oerjan> int-e: but they have full fsa branching ability
20:27:45 <int-e> oerjan: but with BF the transitions that you get are limited, so it's not straight-forward. obviously you know that.
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20:27:59 <oerjan> int-e: i _believe_ 2-cell bf is not tc.
20:28:00 <myname> rust still got a good mixture of functional and imperative programming imo
20:28:28 <oerjan> myname: i think that ((\case 'x' -> True; 'y' -> True; _ -> False) -> True) technically works >:)
20:28:43 <Jafet> @quote \\x.->.case
20:28:43 <lambdabot> benmachine says: let (\x -> case x of (\x -> x -> x) -> x -> x) = 0 in x / best view pattern evar
20:28:46 <oerjan> requires LambdaCase and ViewPatterns
20:28:47 <kmc> myname: Haskell has a better mix, in a sense
20:28:53 <kmc> but Rust has an unusual set of design constraints
20:29:24 <int-e> but yes, that looks correct
20:29:32 <myname> what do you mean with unusual set of design constraints
20:30:15 <kmc> it doesn't have garbage collection or other things that require a heavyweight runtime
20:30:22 <kmc> (it will eventually have optional garbage collection)
20:30:47 <myname> i do find that pretty interesting
20:30:56 <kmc> you get the choice between a runtime with green threads and libuv, or basically no runtime just making system calls the way a C program would
20:31:04 <myname> i take a look at rust for quite some time
20:31:26 <kmc> and in the latter case you can even compile without libc and write an EFI binary, a kernel, a Linux kernel module, a microcontroller program, etc.
20:31:51 <int-e> oh. x == \x -> x -> x
20:32:41 <myname> i just wish for rust to become stable
20:32:57 <kmc> I know there are things for "bare metal" programming in Haskell as well but it's a big pain
20:33:15 <int-e> rust is the antithesis of stability, ask any engineer
20:33:27 <oerjan> hm i think the parentheses are redundant in that pattern
20:33:29 <kmc> whereas Rust is a modern language that's basically compatible with the traditional C world of native compiling and linking
20:33:32 <kmc> myname: you will get your wish this year, is the plan
20:33:56 <myname> i so want to do stuff with it
20:34:06 <oerjan> and also, you could make a quasiquote wrapping that up
20:34:13 <int-e> @run (\case x -> x) 1
20:34:14 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:3: parse error on input ‘case’
20:34:35 <myname> now only documentation needs to get better *g*
20:34:36 <oerjan> int-e: i don't think the extension is enabled?
20:34:36 <kmc> i work on a 100,000 line Rust project and it is a pretty big pain keeping up with the language, yeah
20:34:38 <int-e> @run let id -> x = 0 in x
20:34:39 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:8: parse error on input ‘->’
20:34:46 <kmc> it's not too early to learn the core concepts, though
20:34:52 <kmc> those aren't gonna change much
20:34:54 <int-e> oerjan: this is quicker than checking the source :)
20:35:16 <myname> kmc: indeed, it just is disappointing :D
20:35:50 <int-e> oerjan: I'm a bit surprised that nobody has requested those extensions to be enabled in \-bot yet.
20:41:00 <int-e> so this works: let (\(\x -> x -> x) -> x -> \x -> x -> x) = 0 in x
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20:43:01 <BlueProtoman> So, on simulating a 2-stack PDA with a 4-counter machine; one counter goes to the input, two go to stacks, and one is unused. Handling the inc and dec instructions is easy. What about the jump-if-zero instruction?
20:44:44 <ais523> normally you have to go through some intermediate encoding
20:44:50 <ais523> you might want to look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran
20:45:01 <ais523> it should give you some ideas about compiling things to counter machines
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21:02:50 <int-e> BlueProtoman: Ah, I was ignoring input (assuming it goes to a stack) when I said that 3 counters work easily.
21:11:51 <Sgeo> Just downloaded a tutorial-game for something
21:12:07 <Sgeo> And in the comments.... "Contributors: Julio Monteiro, Sgeo, TheMonkeyDidIt, Deadron"
21:12:13 <Sgeo> I don't... remember contributing to it
21:12:21 <Sgeo> Two Steps BYOND
21:13:04 <Sgeo> http://www.byond.com/developer/deadron/stepbyond
21:13:13 <Sgeo> It currently isn't compiling :(
21:13:28 <b_jonas> and then you get transformations that increase runtime double exponential
21:15:08 <oerjan> finally Sgeo discovers his **** clone
21:19:41 <kmc> fuck clone?
21:20:53 <kmc> that is only one of the many wonderful possibilities of having a clone
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21:30:08 <b_jonas> glogbackup: yeah. but double exponential might be an exaggeration. I don't follow how efficient counter machines are these days, maybe they're single exponential
21:31:50 <oerjan> the keys are like right next to each other.
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22:39:44 <Taneb> I did that thing where I go to sleep before I need to go to sleep and then wake up two hours later really groggy
22:39:45 * boily lightly prods Taneb awake with his mapole
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22:41:13 <fowl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZUQM0ib2CI
22:44:11 <boily> fowl: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
22:44:54 <fowl> SHE TOOK IT ALLLLLLLLLLL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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22:54:51 <fowl> ?wa 700 + 132 + 942 + 732
22:55:14 <fowl> i forgot how to match
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23:09:28 <lambdabot> @where <key>, return element associated with key
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23:17:28 <fowl> i think its another channel that uses ?wa
23:17:35 <fowl> for wolfram alpha
23:24:28 <boily> int-e: does lambdie have the same features across all channels?
23:31:37 <myname> just make your client able to /calc
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23:35:01 <boily> myname: too logical.
23:35:45 <fowl> i cant justify writing a plugin for something i can just jump into a terminal and do (or google)
23:37:28 <Bike> whaddya need a plugin for, just do some alias to /exec whatever dc
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