< 1399680373 868054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody on #sqlite channel knows how to answer my question how to fix it so that, it is possible to use savepoint inside of a INSTEAD OF trigger program and to rename views and other stuff. < 1399680385 567767 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1399680479 275812 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399680537 622704 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399681282 550303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am typing in session 51 of Dungeons&Dragons game, for now. < 1399681366 209075 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the D&D game I am playing the entire party of 5 people is completely split < 1399681384 54203 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is certainly possible, and sometimes very useful. < 1399681384 645765 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two of us, including my character, have been arrested < 1399681391 963412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what? < 1399681412 881535 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possession of some sort of superweapon < 1399681432 343631 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And antagonizing an empire < 1399681477 998859 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My character once did get arrested...on purpose. < 1399681563 605420 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was very much not on purpose < 1399681581 927361 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I knew I would be let out in time, and there were other reasons and things too, including the phase of the moon.) < 1399681593 115380 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was quite surprising that 3 of the party managed to get away < 1399681601 172903 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When playing at D&D, you have to take advantage of the phase of the moon. < 1399681623 755095 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One by pretending to be blind and so harmless (his character is actually blind but it isn't a hindrance) < 1399681648 951380 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One by using a carpet as a moving wall to shelter himself from arrows < 1399681687 804206 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one by teleporting through a very small hole in the ceiling onto the roof < 1399681863 125381 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, any advice for getting out of jail in D&D? < 1399681867 538764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once managed to escape by replacing a door with its mirror image, stealing a wizard's wand, secretly giving it back to him, and stuff... < 1399681881 5696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I cannot say, since it depends a lot on the exact circumstances. < 1399681906 107885 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to figure it out myself < 1399681932 170503 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the rest of the party will rescue me (it would be out of character for them) < 1399681935 663917 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may just have to wait; even if you can do other things, sometimes that is the best way anyways. < 1399681987 111851 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got the impression that if I wait I will eventually be executed or at least skinned alive < 1399681997 651526 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of which are ideal < 1399682002 266251 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't wait too much! < 1399682015 55847 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my best bet will be to talk my way out < 1399682017 922908 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have the way to write letters? < 1399682026 389157 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pen is mightier than a sword, so use a pen! < 1399682037 75680 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1399682043 297990 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may be the best option < 1399682050 203555 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My character does have quite high charisma < 1399682072 835987 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's what I did; not to get out of jail though, but to convince someone to do something while I was in jail.) < 1399682216 163471 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :High charisma is not enough. You also need a paper to write on! < 1399682247 513786 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that may be an issue < 1399682259 199835 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will also need some form of writing implement < 1399682306 911655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point, I wanted to tell something to someone in a house which I did not want to go near, and I had no pen or paper, but I did have a book, so I searched the book for a phrase similar enough to what I wanted to say, tore it out, tied it to a rock, and threw it through the window. < 1399682332 497238 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if nothing else works, try using magic if you have any. < 1399682577 412425 :nooodl!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :static int bogo_comp( const void *a, const void *b ) { return rand() % 3 - 1; } < 1399682580 787477 :nooodl!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :qsort( deck, n_cards, sizeof(int), bogo_comp ); < 1399682588 48872 :nooodl!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1399682678 897422 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: Is that like "ORDER BY RANDOM()" in a SQL program? < 1399682713 542425 :nooodl!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be! depending on the sort ORDER BY performs < 1399682727 768675 :nooodl!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think this is a veeery good shuffle though < 1399682870 24529 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ORDER BY will perform the same sort as if the value specified is an extra column of the table, then sort by that fake extra column. < 1399683071 746001 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399683183 906722 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: answered < 1399683559 718134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1399683617 300078 :nooodl_!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1399683834 721076 :nooodl!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399684792 759999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1399685669 768403 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr why doesn't Pharo come with Symbol>>asBlock? < 1399685686 992770 :MoALTz__!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1399685828 356506 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399685962 11232 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a ruby hack < 1399686063 434937 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399686799 700960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it UB to give qsort a comparison function that isn't a total order < 1399686874 422165 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it only have to be partial? < 1399686875 106441 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust has separate Eq and TotalEq, Ord and TotalOrd < 1399686881 681216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and much controversy over where floats fit into this < 1399686884 621839 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there PreOrd < 1399686886 983581 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1399686895 683685 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what's the fucking point them < 1399686897 27936 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1399686902 397881 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a whole hierarchy of ordinals! < 1399686998 401261 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably no less defined than rand is < 1399687025 445038 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, do normal sorting algorithms work with partial orders? < 1399687038 816374 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"work" < 1399687056 422050 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them will do something and then terminate < 1399687063 367893 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1399687074 406983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :such turing machine, very halting < 1399687083 236143 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :informative helpful answer a++ < 1399687102 629486 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Actually, there is case where I would find such a thing helpful, to use sorting with partial ordering. < 1399687180 251659 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's PreOrd? < 1399687244 316312 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are partial orders the same thing as transitive DAGs? < 1399687272 695403 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partial orders are same thing as a thin category. < 1399687317 428358 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a preorder. < 1399687422 936920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a thing such as logic without free variables? < 1399687435 826816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I can figure out how to do it. < 1399687515 702907 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatory? < 1399687685 956352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by that? < 1399687896 609966 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how PetitParser compares to Parsec
< 1399687923 505809 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall something saying that PetitParser includes parser combinators, but also has something that avoids some pitfall? < 1399687942 723027 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Instead it uses a unique combination of four alternative parser methodologies: scannerless parsers, parser combinators, parsing expression grammars and packrat parsers." < 1399688006 341237 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about recursive descent parsers < 1399688010 767266 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what is packrat parsers < 1399688079 892676 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia article about "packrat parser" redirected to "parsing expression grammar". < 1399688176 176524 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot parser < 1399688176 404388 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: bzip2 is slow, of course. < 1399688181 402712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: of course. < 1399688182 270814 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the cable doesn't bother me. lisp is shorter. people usually call " porting" gambit's web server? :) i'm implementing the cursors inside these structures partially with the postgresql c library. however, major dissidence isn't usually likely to be overtly malicious than to ddos :) < 1399688191 864574 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1399688192 12137 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1399688328 53857 :canaima_!~canaima@201.243.26.236 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399688368 136823 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1399688404 482236 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399688416 511897 :canaima_!~canaima@201.243.26.236 QUIT :Client Quit < 1399688642 56257 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i mean that the idea behind combinatory logic was "hey can we do lambda calculus w/o variables" < 1399688678 413266 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1399688687 155207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, I can see that, but it isn't what I meant. < 1399688731 392600 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that you still have variables, but only quantified variables. < 1399688852 219987 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the norm < 1399688866 42269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia article about sequent calculus mentions the restrictions on the use of free and quantified variables; this can be avoided by not having any free variables. < 1399688979 140759 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "forall R" and "exist L" rules would be changed, by instead of a free variable "y" made up above the line, it would make up a unique "free atom", which is one not allow to use anywhere else; each usage of the rule makes up a new one and it isn't an atom mentioned elsewhere in the sequent above the line. < 1399691143 709796 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399691996 303941 :nooodl_!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399692169 155164 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399692437 434435 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399693131 246656 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1399693448 741152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of people don't believe me that in SQL, savepoints would be much more useful if allowed inside of a trigger program. < 1399693564 938697 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck continuation-based web development < 1399693592 931878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What? < 1399693619 330917 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This site is practically unusable: http://bugs.pharo.org/ < 1399693648 91974 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try navigating to a bug, then figuring out how to share a link with a friend < 1399693740 499167 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is terrible < 1399693754 379432 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.pharo.org/issues/register/id/2058?_k=t5FQ1yAmItNRJSof let's see < 1399693795 909879 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: open that in an incognito window < 1399693802 165399 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.pharo.org/issues/register/id/7627?_k=LAzNiBTJSnR_WP0l < 1399693808 90271 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo werid < 1399693919 739871 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not the point of URLs and if you do not want URL of each file, don't use a webpage at all and just make a telnet or whatever. < 1399694315 956725 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mess up a bug tracker that badly? < 1399694368 288549 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote That is not the point of URLs and if you do not want URL of each file, don't use a webpage at all and just make a telnet or whatever. < 1399694369 660153 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1194) That is not the point of URLs and if you do not want URL of each file, don't use a webpage at all and just make a telnet or whatever. < 1399694426 604526 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's an anonymous frontend to a login-required bug tracker < 1399694698 515113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What is the point of that? < 1399694720 1834 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the horrible URLs, or of the site? < 1399694728 693588 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good to not need to login to view bugs < 1399694729 447792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of an anonymous frontend to a login-required bug tracker. < 1399694752 622362 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the way that that one is done. < 1399694824 220629 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure the use case is independent from the poor implementation choice < 1399694826 181046 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Seaside < 1399694871 600369 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think continuations have their uses in web development, but... not for this. Maybe during checking something out from an ecommerce site, or a password reset flow (although with the latter, need to be sure some idiot doesn't send the URL to a friend) < 1399694877 583875 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, with both) < 1399694904 952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think such thing is just all wrong. < 1399694994 947352 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume this is not as terrible even though it's similar in development style < 1399694995 351876 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.impredicative.com/ur/demo/counter.html < 1399694999 628082 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The URLs are much cleaner somehow < 1399695004 504110 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also easy to tamper with < 1399695008 564789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't use webpages if you don't want their kind of state transactions; use them for non-interactive sessions instead. Interactive stuff can be including IRC, telnet, SSH, etc (and even block-oriented terminals, if necessary) < 1399695037 536351 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.impredicative.com/ur/demo/Demo/Counter/main < 1399695072 824034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use an entirely stateless stuff if you need to, as well, which saves a lot of problem, too. < 1399695084 897681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need any cookie either, then. < 1399695091 592250 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sadly, users expect websites < 1399695109 365108 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make websites with stateless stuff too though < 1399695154 516511 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resetting a password seems tricky to do without some sort of state, unless you like messing with encryption < 1399695183 152190 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, bad example, I'm only really familiar with one example of a reset password flow < 1399695189 788762 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I could see password reset usually used email though? < 1399695217 671326 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a reset password flow where first you answer questions or whatever before being allowed to send the email < 1399695222 544583 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetically < 1399695248 868267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That isn't a problem either; you have HTML forms for that! < 1399695278 865636 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about logging into a website? < 1399695295 436336 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is HTTP authentication. < 1399695306 189917 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1399695306 455864 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399695333 778978 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course it isn't as secure as SSH, even if HTTPS is used) < 1399695706 806315 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you don't require these kind of things, you need no HTML, HTTP, SSH, SMTP, or whatever else; the gopher protocol is really simple and all stateless; there is no cookie or anything like that. Also, you don't have to make a separate "mobile version", or make other considerations about the user interface and so on; < 1399695738 642595 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ide/theory: avoid having state by avoiding passwords by avoiding having information to secure < 1399695765 120412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works just as well with a keyboard, mouse, touch-screen, various sizes, hardcopy terminal, fax, punched cards, postal mail, or whatever else; without having to change anything. < 1399695780 882519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't gopher be slower with postal mail < 1399695820 445677 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes it would certainly be slower with postal mail, but that isn't the point at all. < 1399695851 767504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, in cases where you don't need a password, where you can do without a password and that stuff, it can. < 1399695900 948076 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :addendum: never need a password < 1399695999 713779 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you do need a secure system, there are several ways. For example, require login over SSH. Or, you can encrypt the files and download it, and whoever has the password can use a decryption software to access it. < 1399696015 870748 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, didn't i just explain. don't need a secure system < 1399696043 972536 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't need a secure system, then that is easy: ignore all of that stuff, and make more simplicity. < 1399696066 511007 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1399696271 563398 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fun security fact, my job's secure login works over https, but also has an http address. it asks for credentials and takes them but then presents nothing if you use it < 1399696274 624206 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :v. secure < 1399696372 261194 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really negligent to run a plaintext HTTP server that serves anything other than a redirect with an HSTS header < 1399696375 172655 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to HTTPS < 1399696395 536615 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume letting me enter my password over http is also bad < 1399696411 508028 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1399696430 541837 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, i'm the type of person who'd give up their password for a chocolate bar, so there's no net lowering of security in my using this system < 1399696457 740235 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you serve any part of your domain at all over plain HTTP -- even the boringest static terms of service page -- then an active attacker has arbitrary code execution for that whole subdomain and can substantially mess with the entire domain < 1399696473 147789 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd ask them to fix it, but it took like three days with IT to get on in the first place so i'm not gonna bother < 1399696475 955499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of web developers don't know this < 1399696484 216921 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary, huh. < 1399696495 265083 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, they can inject arbitrary javascript < 1399696517 920917 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has permission to read cookies for that domain, mess with same-origin windows, make same-origin requests etc < 1399696523 143427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also a problem with HTTP and HTML in general. Even if you do use entirely HTTPS! < 1399696529 569001 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: can't read every cookie < 1399696534 493679 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right Sgeo < 1399696540 442308 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use SSH for secure login interactive sessions, and work much better. < 1399696545 935319 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HttpOnly cookies are a weak protection though < 1399696556 592617 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still make requests that will include that cookie < 1399696569 675509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine Sgeo meant Secure cookies < 1399696570 875344 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter because if you can inject JS then you can also sniff the cookie off the wire < 1399696578 886881 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, the instructions have how to do it on XP < 1399696597 900280 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because we use a newer file storage system at the College of Veterinary Medicine, older Mac operating systems cannot access Vetmed files. You will need Mac OS 10.6 (Snow Leopard) or software that allows for Mac-Windows interoperability, such as Thursby Software's Dave" < 1399696599 944694 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases you can overflow the cookie jar and replace the cookie with a non-Secure cookie on a broader domain < 1399696614 132606 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: as shachaf notes, can't read Secure HttpOnly cookies over the wire... but yeah, arbitrary requests to the real site < 1399696635 555144 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, even just not serving anything over http isn't sufficient without something like hsts < 1399696654 85216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1399696722 416157 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, as you probably already know, computer security < 1399696726 17938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still serve plain files over HTTP, and forms and stuff which are simple enough, but there are generally better ways in any case already. < 1399696737 665944 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gopher < 1399696778 170651 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer SCOWrity < 1399696782 755029 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gophers < 1399696821 50199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that there are other protocols, and HTTP can be used to fall-back-on, perhaps. < 1399696838 970341 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are also better ways of using HTTP than all those terrible ways, too, though.) < 1399696926 724617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble with fallbacks and security is that they have to be as secure as the not fallbackthings < 1399696944 70232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post a warning message. < 1399696952 118387 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun going back and forth from homomorphic encryption or whatever to My Daily Life < 1399696953 387728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disable some features if needed. < 1399697013 504020 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a warning message on the webpage that says that it is "deprecated" and insecure, and that you are offered to better alternatives if possible. < 1399697041 600205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only helps if the user sees the web page < 1399697063 504593 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is true, of course. < 1399697089 743571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote zzo38.*reasonable < 1399697090 412067 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :113) Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple < 1399697096 524515 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But otherwise, if it consists of nothing then the problem corrects itself (giving you another problem, if you didn't already fix that one). < 1399697947 797441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`danddreclist 51 < 1399697948 580938 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :danddreclist 51: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1399698120 876776 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There it is! < 1399698192 259677 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this latest Dungeons&Dragons game by now? < 1399698214 993203 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll never shine if you don't glow < 1399698240 536703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1399698254 876593 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't glow either. < 1399698322 589827 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1399698792 487693 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Stacked Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39483&oldid=32424 5* 03Killer64 5* (+0) 10USing -> Using < 1399699930 449629 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399699943 712234 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399700171 773213 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1399700232 704298 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone familiar with category theory please confirm/deny: if F is a functor, the statement "F is injective on objects" is not preserved by natural isomorphism < 1399700334 246795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds right to me < 1399700338 578813 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :motherfunctor < 1399700433 100691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you have a category C with two isomorphic objects and two functors F, G : C -> C where F is the identity and G maps both objects to the first one (and arrows to the identity) < 1399700528 145623 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be "category theory for dummies" < 1399700570 86993 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google "category theory for dummies" < 1399700570 999267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/jcheney/presentations/ct4d1.pdf < 1399700571 146416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Category Theory for Dummies (I) < 1399700673 372969 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1399700764 614219 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1399700943 427064 :MoALTz__!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1399701053 830851 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1399701088 117160 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399701334 724593 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399701530 703952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be so idiotic and play a DEFENDER card if it would be to your opponent's advantage for you to do so. < 1399701797 422264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to think of use of necessity modal operator in Haskell, for example, to make the type specify only top-level values can be used (one way to do it is a class), and so on, would that be something like that? < 1399701834 293440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the error message "the connection was reset"? < 1399701944 949154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it shown to users in web browsers? Why not "closed" or "disconnected" or "aborted" or something? Are people expected to understand what "reset" means? < 1399701959 399822 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-108-150.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399702183 795105 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Reset is a normal english word < 1399702196 116309 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1399702198 137375 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are people expected to understand what "connection" means < 1399702215 19184 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Also a normal english word < 1399702219 519702 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does this use of it have to do with the normal English use? < 1399702325 904173 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Reset or connection? < 1399702341 472211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset < 1399702406 279655 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does fit, though I suppose you are correct in that closed would be better < 1399702416 903550 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn reset < 1399702418 261983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "reset" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1399702418 409548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset < 1399702418 409625 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: device for resetting instruments or controls < 1399702418 409671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : v 1: set anew; "They re-set the date on the clock" < 1399702418 409707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: set to zero; "reset instruments and dials" < 1399702420 278920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3: adjust again after an initial failure [syn: {readjust}, < 1399702422 252595 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : {reset}] < 1399702435 90731 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connection was set anew < 1399702438 396616 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connection was set to zero < 1399702445 252876 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The connection was adjusted again after an initial failure < 1399702545 740714 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn referer < 1399702546 853323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "referer". < 1399702547 111304 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: You're right, it doesn't make sense < 1399702642 901081 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect most people do not actually read any text once they see the chrome://global/skin/icons/warning-large.png < 1399702678 331609 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Why a warning symbol is used for errors is another story) < 1399702831 190754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The webpage at chrome://global/skin/icons/warning-large.png might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address." < 1399702838 768511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :got me where i wanted anyway < 1399702844 441057 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Browser? < 1399702854 451549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :chromium < 1399702863 998274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :v34 < 1399702885 434409 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1399702954 465726 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399703339 61048 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :password2: Why not password? < 1399703349 575810 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :******** < 1399703408 251819 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because someone registered password < 1399703447 571100 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it actively used? < 1399703466 782287 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as far as i know < 1399703622 86743 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there not a time period after which it becomes free? < 1399703639 778625 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1399703644 720135 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1399703794 682666 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aparently password was used once this year < 1399703818 817021 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :registered and used 15 weeks ago < 1399703872 902129 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess its password < 1399703881 938059 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1399707406 964517 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399707453 977466 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1399707674 135323 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.16.43 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1399707710 207772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24.207.51.179 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1399707828 903941 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399707858 213372 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1399708004 144009 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1399708081 300493 :edwardk_!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1399708126 28349 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-17-246.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1399708166 414505 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1399708548 618452 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :big beats are the best, get high all the time < 1399709659 684014 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1399709884 700773 :nucular!~MOO@p4FF91A50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1399709884 898125 :nucular!~MOO@p4FF91A50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Changing host < 1399709885 45377 :nucular!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular JOIN :#esoteric < 1399710621 757267 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Taneb http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D2-R1.pdf < 1399710621 904791 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1399711725 122717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1399711834 773368 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399712040 411286 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399712220 498136 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i finished norge. i brought a bottle of the linie aquavit but did not yet try it < 1399712261 161539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1399712299 393927 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399712523 550991 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Florida psychic Sheree Silver disassociated herself from the practice, telling the Sun-Sentinel, "I can't imagine anyone wasting their time and money on someone like this when there are so many legitimate psychics out there." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpology < 1399712844 324578 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The irony? < 1399712898 348028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1399712971 338302 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be interested in the future anyway unless I could change it < 1399713109 595247 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://neocities.org/blog/the-fcc-is-now-rate-limited < 1399713623 771587 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the FCC doing a lot of surfing on neocities? < 1399713698 946835 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That isn’t really relevant. < 1399713787 336851 :password2!~password@197.78.148.77 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1399713864 989360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: the twist is that you _can_ change the future, but only if you don't know it hth < 1399713869 440802 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does a democratic nation have a bureau responsible for censoring stuff? < 1399713888 472081 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ic. < 1399713921 575078 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once a physic tells me my future it is carved in stone < 1399713928 989634 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that give them supernatural power? < 1399713980 657387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well most psychics don't actually know the future just potentialities hth < 1399714015 340610 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I optimize the implementation of my algorithm for my bachelor thesis :( < 1399714019 797338 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was sort of a stupid move to do < 1399714037 994773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: you mean now you have nothing to do for your masters? < 1399714042 938633 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1399714062 97955 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now all my tons of measurements I did are obsolete. < 1399714085 134469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking (huh.) < 1399714091 610985 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1399714104 596341 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the last week of the bachelor thesis more or less < 1399714111 357152 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already documented and discussed my findings < 1399714119 183581 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suddenly now everything is obsolete < 1399714226 638002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1399714291 418942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean someone beat you to it < 1399714307 612658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't quite understand
< 1399714327 470013 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well < 1399714337 907159 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You gotta write a bachelor thesis repot of around 50 pages < 1399714348 969114 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :documenting your stuff, measurements and conclusions from the measurements < 1399714360 954662 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, since I've optimized stuff like hell < 1399714380 250918 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those conclusions are somewhat useless now < 1399714396 137638 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I've got something better now that scales differently < 1399714406 479898 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now, < 1399714416 433530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so you beat _yourself_. tricky. < 1399714458 846741 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I'm pretty sure someone in the world already beats me anyway) < 1399714464 878610 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not doing a masters btw < 1399714465 196363 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you clearly should have left that for the masters. < 1399714471 780758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1399714484 357249 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd want a master from a university < 1399714491 815643 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any < 1399714495 780263 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the master I could do here < 1399714503 171133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't a university? ok. < 1399714538 477197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a hunch it'll be called Hochschule
< 1399714538 758993 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. It's not. < 1399714547 151279 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is < 1399714606 336120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :norway also has this sort of folkehøyskole system parallel and somewhat lower in status to the universities < 1399714673 690875 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1399714680 486869 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they run under the slogan "different but equal" here < 1399714689 397562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1399714691 443364 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... according to the "real" universities we're not equal ;) < 1399714700 475647 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and according to Hochschule we're equal but different < 1399714708 286353 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick your side ;) < 1399714727 233778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE BREAKING LEIBNITZ RULE YOU INFIDELS < 1399714739 891107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LEIBNI... er let me look it up < 1399714750 32291 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leibnitz made a rule? < 1399714811 204513 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1399714841 606195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LEIBNIZ LAW < 1399714853 587454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LEIBNIZ'S LAW < 1399714872 781392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he also made several rules. someone should clean up the wikipedia redirections. < 1399715082 640247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the law that equal stuff has all properties in common. < 1399715107 621114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can also formulate as the formal logical scheme a = b => (P a <=> P b) < 1399715291 323328 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm always confused with lemma, theorem and laws < 1399715313 686946 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you say "law" when it's really a "definition/axiom"? < 1399715399 788006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the philosophical mess "Leibniz's law" redirects to on wikipedia, i think the point is that leibniz wasn't really thinking about formal logic. < 1399715409 776606 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not looking too closely, mind you) < 1399715437 349652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the formal scheme gets to be called the same thing by analogy. < 1399715463 21392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and could in principle be used as the definition of equality. < 1399715536 129924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some theorem proving systems might, but i vaguely recall some don't for technical reasons (impredicative types possibly) < 1399715537 597532 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be the best definition of equality I know. < 1399715548 819018 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably the only one :) < 1399715616 792588 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know any definitions for a < b that'd hold < 1399715635 458673 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < (n+1) isn't really a good definition at all < 1399715658 75226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well = is a general logical principle but < refers to a particular order on a set < 1399715689 517378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reals you can use a <= b iff b-a is a square. < 1399715745 614087 :password2!~password@197.78.133.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399715750 28699 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because squares can't be negative < 1399715751 983931 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic. < 1399715794 308563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for naturals you can use a <= b iff b-a exists at all < 1399715848 234988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you say, "but it exists as a negative number", then i will note that the real version also breaks if you include complex numbers) < 1399715879 182816 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no negative natural numbers < 1399715883 551570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1399715896 882404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right < 1399715904 759452 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I say it exists as a negative number :D < 1399715934 574470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be quarrelsome and stupid like people usually are in these discussions on the internet hth < 1399715953 7850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING) < 1399716012 135708 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1399716018 853494 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had some discrete mathematics. Not much, but enough to know that in certain thingies certain other thingies just don't exist :) < 1399716027 746317 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Groups < 1399716029 123771 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1399716040 875554 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know the german words for these things < 1399716080 358983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gruppenringkörper < 1399716085 730761 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1399716173 223432 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for natural numbers, < as the transitive closure of n < (n+1) isn't that bad. < 1399716238 5888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that logicians / complexity theorists have investigated how much extra power you get from allowing transitive closure on an otherwise very weak logic < 1399716286 173992 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning < 1399716291 759215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i say / complexity theorists because it turns out that the smallest complexity classes have a strong correspondence with logic) < 1399716314 915031 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1399716395 873046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning Taneb < 1399716674 259533 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, could we add a justification of the decisions made for second normal form to ESOSC 2014 D2? < 1399716995 448078 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1399717017 265158 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm doing crowd simulation as my bachelor thesis < 1399717036 772709 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "distribute it to multiple machines" to be more specific. < 1399717039 261751 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well < 1399717051 50297 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simulates 200k people in 11x realtime < 1399717060 119697 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure somebody out there can do it in 0.1x realtime < 1399717145 502422 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(11x on a single machine) < 1399717289 20758 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It's because they are "nops"? < 1399717295 283861 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ][ is abused for comments < 1399717309 139309 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what kind of justification did you have in mind? < 1399717312 251156 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1399717354 640653 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although [...][foo] isn't first normal form < 1399717365 502492 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only could have comments using brainfuck commands that way ;) < 1399717451 165999 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :making comments in a language where no character can be included if it can be proved never to be executed sounds awkward. < 1399717489 772115 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: +- isn't a nop if cells don't wrap-around < 1399717506 717868 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e 255+ => 255- => 254 < 1399717517 207340 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And <> isn't a nop if cells are bounded on the left < 1399717522 94452 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1399717581 302669 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so snf kinda assumes wrap-around < 1399717949 670071 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is second normal form necessary? It's more like a linter than anything else < 1399717972 232957 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any benifit of having it < 1399717976 624218 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but someone suggested it < 1399718107 83546 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*benefit < 1399718165 180846 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1399718634 151578 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and judging by your question I assume it was nortti < 1399718773 761619 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could remove it < 1399718777 748466 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-17-246.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1399718782 955761 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it wouldn't make sence to have a "first" normal form < 1399718803 456252 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we're going to add one 5 years later or so < 1399718810 384026 :password2!~password@197.78.133.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1399718844 911060 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1399718854 372853 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :][ shouldn't assume wrap-around of any kind < 1399718915 249363 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1399718978 701410 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1399718978 926102 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1399719531 667692 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D2-R2.pdf <- well. I removed it for now < 1399719535 875173 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggestions still welcome :) < 1399720053 312093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1399720090 215467 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, "Brainfuck" in both times in paragraph two should have a small b < 1399720119 741753 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, whenever it's not at the start of a sentence or a heading (or possibly in "Normalized Brainfuck"?) < 1399720140 890784 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought names are writting with a starting capital letter < 1399720143 91896 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And instead of "interpreters (or compilers)", why not "implementations" < 1399720149 276275 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is weird < 1399720162 159014 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at its readme, for example < 1399720172 568297 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1399720175 219902 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :small letter < 1399720268 467275 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*written < 1399720299 734780 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ease interpretation of brainfuck programs < 1399720305 882391 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gotta change too < 1399720314 43708 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1399720320 61940 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since compilers usually don't interpret them :) < 1399720344 500166 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1399720369 519493 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ease reading/handling/parsing? < 1399720385 244394 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation? < 1399720413 204679 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ease implementation of brainfuck programs? < 1399720427 155943 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no < 1399720436 251351 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing would be best < 1399720439 736507 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ease writing brainfuck implementations? < 1399720444 774004 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or thatr < 1399720445 711178 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or developing < 1399720451 555714 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to go now < 1399720455 885130 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye! < 1399720460 410957 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1399720747 501530 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think interpretation works < 1399720763 843975 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe "comprehension" < 1399720986 239999 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: the one who suggested snf was b_jonas < 1399721196 416118 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1399721278 736467 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: 200k people? wow < 1399721286 472194 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot! < 1399721471 745084 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1399722148 793970 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1399722167 345309 :Slereah!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1399722232 240575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you serve any part of your domain at all over plain HTTP -- even the boringest static terms of service page -- then an active attacker has arbitrary code execution for that whole subdomain and can substantially mess with the entire domain < 1399722340 314192 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbsmmzcywijfpfmw JOIN :#esoteric < 1399722375 554368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you don't need to serve anything as http do you? the attacker just needs to fool someone into _trying_ to load http from your domain? < 1399722417 973387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which admittedly is probably somewhat easier if you have actual http pages. < 1399722559 515908 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1399722652 98557 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 197133 to be precise < 1399723186 216738 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can run 25k in about 1.1x realtime < 1399723347 717165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell password2 (1) 15 weeks is the max upper limit for nick expiration (2) that particular nick actually goes under the special "not used more than 2 hours after registration" rule so expired after only 2 weeks. iow you can ask for it to be released. < 1399723347 864571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1399723496 863516 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean that its use time is not 2h, or that is was only used before 2h had passed from registration? < 1399723511 295467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter < 1399723545 883494 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't be used more than two hours before two hours after registration < 1399723576 383892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Jafet -----###
< 1399723605 659797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaving -> < 1399723639 164218 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :re https: if you live in a universe with compromised RAs -- even by the most bored iranian teenager -- it doesn't matter anyway < 1399723742 272136 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some big websites even deliberately cycle multiple certificates, it's like they're asking for it < 1399725043 456170 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly I run out of memory with 1 Mio. people < 1399726125 349348 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1399726954 977902 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS3 can do shadows, right? < 1399726984 703932 :Dameon21!~Dameon21@202.89.60.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399727125 625610 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.... < 1399727137 26895 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those browsers need some more of them anti-aliasing to make it look not terrible < 1399727427 764954 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399727594 722276 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399727729 197117 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399727924 718009 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399728158 353115 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399728172 267605 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1399728329 274820 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1399728610 764452 :Dameon21!~Dameon21@202.89.60.11 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1399728774 975039 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaah my sideburns are asymettric < 1399728833 913300 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ < 1399728850 543009 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :border-radius is kinda nice < 1399728856 372360 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1399728874 964665 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you hyperlink "#esoteric" to webchat? < 1399728900 127170 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :webchat.freenode.net? < 1399728930 699779 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that take an argument for channel? < 1399728935 220269 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=esoteric < 1399728989 709696 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1399728990 762279 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*add* < 1399729010 887086 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#esoteric < 1399729032 310902 :test!5c695245@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.105.82.69 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399729036 333057 :test!5c695245@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.105.82.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1399729038 67520 :test!5c695245@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.105.82.69 PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1399729048 170189 :test!5c695245@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.105.82.69 QUIT :Client Quit < 1399729119 338684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did we pass < 1399729296 270179 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pass what? < 1399729401 834552 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the test? < 1399729414 320966 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1399729457 85774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1399729553 396622 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1399729560 670458 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ISO indeed makes money by selling pdfs < 1399729583 405719 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: enjoy your lopsideburns < 1399729607 626990 :impomatic!~digital_w@43.16.208.46.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399729655 206965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :burning lobsters < 1399729930 193981 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1399730038 865339 :impomatic!~digital_w@43.16.208.46.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :burning lobsters? < 1399731000 143290 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: how many committees and subcommittees does ESOSC have? < 1399731078 182887 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :none at the moment < 1399731162 223650 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like to be in one? < 1399731211 760049 :impomatic!~digital_w@43.16.208.46.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESOSC? What's that? < 1399731232 449169 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esosc < 1399731233 111375 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esosc is esoteric song contest (also Esoteric Standard Committee) < 1399731235 404713 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ < 1399731497 484542 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399731509 497178 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the EsoAPI needs a revival < 1399731563 288512 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a version that isn't dependant on cell-based langs? < 1399731598 317821 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399731673 367612 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :A standardised, improved esoAPI would be neat < 1399731677 445079 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1399731727 551483 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a file-based disk-io instead of sector-based would be neat < 1399732180 501276 :nooodl_!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1399732214 715499 :nooodl_!~nooodl@51.152-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be NICK :nooodl < 1399732677 164237 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399732799 219507 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399732954 228801 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1399733128 256759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1399733600 710427 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399733658 192170 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the EsoAPI hook stdout/stdin? < 1399733718 797433 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it < 1399733730 325789 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1399733753 612392 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :upcoming ESOSC-2014-D3 is EsoAPI Revised :) < 1399733925 323825 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't D3 brainfuck conventions? < 1399733948 392652 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1399733954 626526 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :D4 < 1399733963 637589 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESOSC-2014-D4: Esoteric System Interface (ESIX) < 1399733966 44503 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1399733973 96458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: PSOX < 1399733989 44891 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX? < 1399733992 419680 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pee-Socs? < 1399733997 295427 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Socks < 1399734005 518150 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portable ...? < 1399734038 230804 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1399734055 80494 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX from Sgeo < 1399734147 486113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A guy from the IEEE Signal Processing Society Audio and Acoustic Signal Processing Technical Committee Challenges Subcommittee just said a few words. < 1399734192 460462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm at a workshop.) < 1399734336 731707 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm saying, ESOSC needs more {,sub}committees < 1399734362 835820 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did he present himself using that title? < 1399734378 522874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?:sub)*committee. < 1399734386 805363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost. < 1399734406 807665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He wanted ideas.) < 1399734418 34716 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have an idea for a subcommittee and if you want to work in it just say so ;) < 1399734431 848724 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm btw. not really fond of APIs through stdin/stdout < 1399734451 306885 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for that they are portable across languages and don't require any change in them < 1399734459 76364 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks kinda inconvenient < 1399734488 822339 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PSOX looks kinda feature-rich < 1399734560 416886 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1399734576 835567 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it be Esoteric Standard*s* Committee? < 1399734606 458730 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It's a good idea to start out small. < 1399734627 801098 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could call it the standard standards committee < 1399734680 904719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also weird: conference proceedings on an USB stick that pretends to be both a USB mass storage device and an external CD ROM drive. < 1399734705 945914 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1399734708 109651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the latter was read-only. < 1399734724 50928 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine but not very original < 1399734732 989693 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :iow, boring. < 1399734734 8553 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any reason for the latter.. < 1399734794 442594 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: recall the floppy disks that had a notch that could be covered to make them read-only? < 1399734798 711295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "CD" had all the data and the stick was empty. < 1399734826 820120 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the latter" as in pretending to be an external CD-ROM drive < 1399734846 382489 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that would be a sensible use for such a setup to me, hardware level write protection. < 1399734852 312706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it autoruns better. < 1399734863 413978 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4020:a020:4:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1399734866 15597 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4020:a020:4:: QUIT :Excess Flood < 1399734881 619302 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1399734887 412866 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4020:a020:4:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1399734889 886673 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4020:a020:4:: QUIT :Excess Flood < 1399734904 735594 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I've seen that, putting drivers on a USB "CD" drive. < 1399734915 621565 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is that idea doing at a conference?! < 1399735039 797640 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a USB 3G/GPRS stick that has a built-in "driver CD", of course with hopelessly outdated drivers. < 1399735070 349965 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huawei? < 1399735084 382701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1399735716 672319 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399735744 818936 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1399735758 448380 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399735904 159411 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1399736540 375549 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399736717 444133 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1399736726 973220 :password2!~password@197.78.133.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399737348 372136 :conehead!~conehead@cpe-67-10-116-50.gt.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1399737791 703919 :password2!~password@197.78.133.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399737814 629791 :conehead!~conehead@cpe-67-10-116-50.gt.res.rr.com QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1399737877 177019 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399737936 414360 :conehead_!~conehead@cpe-67-10-116-50.gt.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1399738061 396613 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1399738148 270776 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1399738157 899536 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :inshikhin < 1399738230 713912 :inshikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1399738515 444516 :conehead_!~conehead@cpe-67-10-116-50.gt.res.rr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1399738515 663667 :conehead_!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1399738857 107724 :conehead_!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead NICK :conehead < 1399738976 312530 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1399739048 404984 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399739126 682719 :password2!~password@197.78.133.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399739286 529242 :quelqun_dautre!unautre@server5.tonbnc.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1399739769 595278 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399739957 448800 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1399740006 772010 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1399740576 259788 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399740738 254379 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399740788 5857 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1399740801 696962 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399740818 694279 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399740921 252808 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399741079 596920 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1399741180 686717 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1399741197 493312 :edwardk_!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1399742028 391859 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rasen14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39484&oldid=39478 5* 03Wolgr 5* (-42) 10 < 1399742590 464266 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Rasen14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39485&oldid=39484 5* 03Wolgr 5* (-61) 10 < 1399742742 754842 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399743110 271736 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1399744104 705337 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1399744305 410882 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399744458 251661 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399744607 465004 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399744741 191513 :MoALTz__!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1399744758 258485 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399744882 372359 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1399744925 446867 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399745065 376836 :MoALTz__!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1399745213 398986 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1399745360 337195 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1399745375 218863 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to balance simplicity, compilability and mightibility < 1399745386 576216 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordmakeupability < 1399745395 116989 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recommend bonghits < 1399745414 616445 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to boostrap a self-hosting compiler < 1399745426 756382 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a language I'll invent) < 1399745448 794552 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simpler the language, the easier to compile < 1399745453 676349 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1399745455 377901 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simpler the language, the harder to make a compiler < 1399745458 486006 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my last try even had a typesystem < 1399745465 379991 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1399745473 403075 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpler language, simpler compiler *my opinion* < 1399745480 750332 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck's easy to compile < 1399745484 98686 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean... < 1399745486 971655 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but writing a brainfuck compiler in brainfuck < 1399745489 415111 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's gonna be harder < 1399745490 415534 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simpler the language, the harder to write a compiler in < 1399745496 966666 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant < 1399745500 172756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a brainfuck to brainfuck compiler in brainfuck < 1399745506 624660 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a < 1399745510 589106 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler compiler < 1399745513 556111 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that produces brainfuck code < 1399745538 782787 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a blc interpreter in blc is straightforward though < 1399745552 432697 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because blc is much more expressive than brainfuck < 1399745568 165249 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, binary lambda calculus? < 1399745571 393134 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1399745583 63524 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :best lambda calculus < 1399745589 744642 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonghit lambda calculus < 1399745617 929514 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it can't be too hard given that it takes under 26 bytes < 1399745642 763334 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp_, i've seen your web page about it, looks very interesting. except i barely understand anything :/ < 1399745665 35220 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd first need to learn and understand well lambda calculus < 1399745678 21148 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wikipedia article should make a good introduction < 1399745687 472802 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can dive into my paper < 1399745729 745091 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i skimmed through it, what I like the most about it is the images. i find it fascinating to represent programs as graphs < 1399745752 570292 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they're quite artistic < 1399745800 383969 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399745800 904433 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to mock a mockinggraph < 1399745820 259630 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399745828 879079 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a big print of the predecessor function adorning my office wall < 1399745849 391263 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily mistaken for modern art < 1399745862 749393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1399745871 928158 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepages.cwi.nl/~tromp/cl/diagrams.html < 1399745921 683459 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah nice < 1399745957 668300 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp_, I want < 1399745985 33330 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1399746020 359863 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399746087 269933 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these always unambiguous? < 1399746094 921680 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1399746109 232080 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kewl < 1399746121 684858 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell programs on my blc page create these images < 1399746127 16016 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in various formats < 1399746142 670672 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. png, ascii, ascii graphics... < 1399746158 855517 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an interpreter which takes an image as input < 1399746165 942174 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope:( < 1399746193 590728 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the image is quadratic in the size of the term < 1399746209 690350 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember something about blc used in studying program complexity. is blc the most compact representation of an algorith? < 1399746234 822158 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible to formalize, scoofy < 1399746267 606301 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly hits a sweet spot in simlicity and expressiveness < 1399746276 86723 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION --> Eurovision party
< 1399746286 112623 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your blc interpreter is the smallest turing-compatible self-impreter, iirc < 1399746293 65782 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i haven't seen any competitive alternative < 1399746295 277959 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1399746321 915965 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the smallest "honest" one < 1399746336 240671 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again that's hard to formalize < 1399746354 542135 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder about its performance. is the blc interpreter fast enough to make it sensible to run complex programs in it? < 1399746359 596626 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many languages have primitives that vastly simply self interpretation < 1399746363 757512 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :simplify < 1399746432 128570 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter introduces little overhead < 1399746449 726260 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1399746456 56902 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could be very fast depending on the underlying reduction engine < 1399746475 3509 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in theory, it could be used for program compression? < 1399746496 947977 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating very small programs is an interesting field < 1399746499 383280 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what programs do you have in mind? < 1399746517 953984 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard because blc has no data primitives < 1399746527 439270 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no numbers, no nothing < 1399746536 790944 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just function application < 1399746571 503041 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also (optimal) compression is uncomputale < 1399746617 828110 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... how would one start writing a blc program? < 1399746623 77610 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating small blc programs (like the 1267 bit prime sieve) is a huge challenge < 1399746640 49192 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean 167 bit < 1399746641 264828 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you can represent data same way as you do in good ol lambda calculus. < 1399746708 208463 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html for some interesting sample programs < 1399746720 808435 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, writing blc looks like writing unlambda < 1399746738 622235 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 8-bit self-interpreter represents bytes as length-8 lists of booleans < 1399746760 18800 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also used in the brainfuck interpreter < 1399746827 868310 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed blc is pure lambda calculus < 1399746836 961176 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some binary IO conventions < 1399746965 18154 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/XdQlMQwP <- so far I've come up with something like this now < 1399747004 998366 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the list stored as (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) or (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8) ? < 1399747050 402876 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming it uses \xyf.fxy to construct the list) < 1399747086 433684 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as b7:b6:b5:b4:b3:b2:b1:b0:nil < 1399747087 891181 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399747118 915308 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where : is infix \xyf.fxy < 1399747165 761347 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the b's < 1399747189 702148 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nil False or the other possible nil? < 1399747194 569012 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bi is the i'th bit < 1399747213 353141 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bil = false = \xy.y < 1399747225 633258 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean nil < 1399747238 348629 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and b7 is the MSB? < 1399747243 753440 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b7 is the most significant bit yes < 1399747258 258681 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399747313 35904 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399747400 106659 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1399747416 321322 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ran the primes.blc program and it locked up my computer. had to hardreset < 1399747454 956192 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it warns about that. only take the first 300 or so bits of output < 1399747468 928657 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't read that warning :/ < 1399747481 106465 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it printed about 10 lines of results fine < 1399747510 916207 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the c-program can do over a thousand bits < 1399747522 9939 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens after that? < 1399747524 250461 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399747533 453928 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it bring a linux to knees? < 1399747534 646387 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts eating up your swap space:) < 1399747539 652436 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1399747546 350798 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :by allocating memory at insane rate < 1399747549 534382 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it eats up all memory, i guess... < 1399747556 473048 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem terribly efficient < 1399747574 991478 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary arithmetic is usually not < 1399747585 785164 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the price to pay for the shortest prime sieve program < 1399747595 551981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a idea about another kind of modal logic operator, which is a "loop modality", which is always a theorem regardless what it is applied to. < 1399747598 238201 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt use any arithmetic < 1399747608 625663 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone does something similar? < 1399747692 81425 :password2!~password@197.78.133.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399747955 762977 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilbert.Blc works fine < 1399748262 352726 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :going for a stroll; cul8r < 1399748278 236537 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399748300 891800 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't BLC be more compact if the de bruijn indices weren't unary? < 1399748317 517574 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but also harder to encode < 1399748374 896879 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1399748381 256922 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder to write a universal machine? < 1399748424 77136 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1399748764 312577 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not using unary has overhead, too < 1399748843 257707 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1399748918 526791 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about using unary, but with a bias, so the numbering starts below zero < 1399748938 233078 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes it easier to refer to variables at some fixed distance to the current scope < 1399748942 385253 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one even do that? < 1399749037 506777 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how do you represent a negative num in unary without sign symbol, in which case it is better to just use binary < 1399749287 623732 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary indices are close to optimal < 1399749289 722767 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399749302 871249 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because larger indices occur much less frequently < 1399749317 741164 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399749321 693563 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, you don't even need any index > 2 < 1399749372 692162 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some TC combinator system that only uses 2-arg combinators? < 1399749385 534732 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh < 1399749422 601652 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um what? < 1399749431 781811 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some guy schoenfinkel made one < 1399749461 743417 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i think you need some 3 arg comb to construct S < 1399749483 971051 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type ap < 1399749484 865279 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b < 1399749531 543638 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, bckw isn't one either < 1399749546 895306 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp_: won't you need index 3, then? < 1399749579 383302 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need indices 0,1,2 or 1,2,3 :) < 1399749601 900305 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes start from 0, sometimes from 1 < 1399749639 735602 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that page i start with 1, so yes i need 3 then < 1399749679 464788 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see. I start from 1 since the first index in BLC is 10 < 1399749704 257449 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399749785 198807 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1399750041 559597 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1399750218 258406 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399750309 256720 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i think i'm starting to understand it. so the 3 elements are: 'lambda', 'apply', and an index < 1399750455 979571 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :00=apply, 01=lambda, 1(1*)0=index *. < 1399750467 445886 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm. < 1399750479 289738 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 00=lambda, 01=apply. < 1399750530 382540 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about the \io trick, so the first thing in the primes program is actually a lambda. < 1399750540 315041 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, so 1110 is index 2? < 1399750543 567924 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the prime program on http://homepages.cwi.nl/~tromp/cl/cl.html is color coded that way < 1399750550 997603 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so you can do zero, ok < 1399750558 152716 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing that anything can be expressed in terms of that 3 things. < 1399750562 908224 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes, I count from zero. < 1399750566 261160 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda in red, apply in green, vars in blue < 1399750575 414387 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :color coding is fun :) < 1399750592 247437 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the graphic notation is cute < 1399750595 998461 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good that you mention that, because I didn't notice < 1399750603 417695 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternativell 3-symbol system would be binary combinatory logic, although that is bit of pita to program in < 1399750619 810612 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Forobj14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39486 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+6678) 10Created page with "'''Forobj''' is an object oriented programming language. It is designed to be easily extendable. == Overview == Forobj is a stack-based language. A program is a list of comm..." < 1399750620 872080 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ll < 1399750677 753910 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39487&oldid=39456 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+13) 10/* F */ < 1399750688 735835 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a project name generator on the fungot < 1399750689 83211 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fowl: not at all related to network fd readiness is dependent on fnord i got from the lists. < 1399750747 723530 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :network fd readiness < 1399750753 263577 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, real fast nora's hair saloon 3: sheer disaster download to bcl can be done with APPLY->01, LAMBDA->00, ONE MORE THAN->1, ZERO->10 < 1399750764 335257 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: he fd to means regular files on network filesystems < 1399750859 829818 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that right, fungot < 1399750861 392428 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: and it fnord. :) :) 3 :) at least for emacs users. < 1399750893 198780 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what's your favourite language? < 1399750896 535033 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ fnord), and have vector-like-shuffler return a procedure from a symbol. < 1399750907 874912 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. classic. < 1399750972 746266 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Forobj14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39488&oldid=39486 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+240) 10 < 1399751089 479810 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Forobj14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39489&oldid=39488 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (-1) 10 < 1399751100 879653 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nuke OPENSSL_NO_SOCK since any half sane operating system has sockets." < 1399751114 695706 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why would OpenSSL even be used on a no socket system? < 1399751119 42810 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess key generation? < 1399751125 272936 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other utilities? < 1399751168 564915 :hk3380!~test@natvip29.york.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1399751209 776715 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Forobj14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39490&oldid=39489 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+98) 10 < 1399751247 229259 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably some nut out there who thinks that to get a real secure system you can't just disconnect it, you also have to patch the kernel and libc to remove the socket syscalls < 1399751276 527958 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone who uses STREAMS < 1399751339 694469 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :For every nut there are ten sysadmins who have to do the same thing because some bureaucrat said so < 1399751412 237572 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there actually any two-variable universal combinators? < 1399751442 361559 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the crypto algorithm implementations maybe < 1399751528 850449 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and there should be plenty of systems where there are sockets, but they just don't look anything like bsd sockets < 1399751622 375468 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-113-151-90.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1399751634 344212 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://insanecoding.blogspot.ro/2014/04/common-libressl-porting-mistakes.html < 1399751689 924529 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399751715 717111 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399751735 896117 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you'd expect bsd programmers to assume bsd sockets. < 1399751756 362928 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399752440 190284 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: which? < 1399752514 728960 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_Runtime_Environment_for_Wireless is one that I know of < 1399752574 595374 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw < 1399752600 392996 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though openssl probably has a winsock backend) < 1399752636 97051 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :winsock's socket api is very close to bsd sockets though < 1399752759 223319 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1399753064 311555 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1399753146 428372 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-17-246.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1399753228 150004 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1399753232 953695 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*new idea* < 1399753963 937768 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to read http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2014/02/http-308-incompetence-expected.html
< 1399754207 194063 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought HTTP2 was supposed to be about the delivery, not header and status semantics < 1399754251 95863 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :electric boogaloo < 1399754299 77458 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also thought it was supposed to, but things wouldn't be very web if they made sense < 1399754641 208668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way to fix it, I think, would be to make the server check if HTTP2 is specified, and whether or not it is, post a "deprecated" notice mentioning all of these problems, and that you either need to fix your client or connect using an alternate protocol. < 1399754660 295115 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gophers < 1399754666 391286 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hmm, looks like that post is not correct < 1399754695 76305 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. 301 was *specified* some different way earlier, but never actually used in that manner < 1399754698 177727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way they describe is certainly too much more stupid, so one thing you can do is, check for HTTP2 and then complain < 1399754745 872755 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: olsner (and a comment on that page) is saying that the older spec didn't describe reality, and the HTTP2 change is meant to describe the current reality of what browsers actually do < 1399754749 465588 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, don't use those codes if they cause problems. < 1399754799 432431 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1399754799 621680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps, but they are probably both wrong. Especially if an unusual browser program is in use, or some other program such as wget is in use. < 1399754840 782560 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1399754875 870146 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything web is wrong < 1399754880 31636 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, reuse of already-existing code is a bad thing < 1399754885 835963 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+return < 1399754944 707748 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think the upcoming HTTP/1.1-bis RFCs are the best description of current reality, the original HTTP/1.1 (RFC 2616) has some differences < 1399754947 557610 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1399754974 709819 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399754986 801974 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and those RFCs might be what he calls HTTP/2 < 1399754992 267500 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're naming standards with chem terms now? < 1399754998 990812 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Google's servers do not even correctly implement the existing HTTP. Headerless requests will still respond with a header, and HEAD requests will sometimes return a 404 error even though a GET to the same file works. < 1399755098 645364 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :httpbis is a working group, HTTP/1.1-bis is something I made up because I don't know what they're really called < 1399755125 151308 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's still bis then. < 1399755246 108770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1399755289 216069 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still love that the IETF mailing list about random number generation is named dsfjdssdfsd < 1399755444 279006 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes on proggit and tries to correct some misconceptions about US copyright law
< 1399755454 694190 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people think that creating anything similar to someone else's API is now illegal < 1399755473 526885 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the court decision was that you need a fair use reason to be able to copy function declarations literally < 1399755496 204855 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a huge amount of grey area in between, such as if you reimplement someone else's API but write the function declarations yourself < 1399755551 728866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523_ goes on proggit <-- noo you have so much to live for < 1399755689 619368 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would the difference be between copying function declarations literally and reimplementing an API but writing the function declarations yourself? < 1399755734 850876 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choice of parameter name is the only thing I can imagine, but that seems a bit.. thin < 1399755764 44687 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legality, of course. < 1399755836 796524 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: the first involves copying them, the latter doesn't, and copyright is about copying < 1399755837 839008 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1399755860 547884 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the court actually said that copyright law was hard to apply to software, they described it like trying to solve a jigsaw where the pieces don't fit together properly < 1399755877 834576 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay, so it's purely about the act of copying < 1399755878 693510 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the latter case, you didn't copy the API, even if you happen to independently choose the same variable names < 1399755885 798674 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, didn't copy the declarations < 1399755894 461845 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did copy the API, if you did it based on API docs, but that's more abstract < 1399755902 351662 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go even further, and, say, reverse-engineer the machine code < 1399755909 546973 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's even less copying involved < 1399755916 66712 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In switzerland reverse-enginerring is allowed < 1399755919 285932 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the court explicitly said they weren't making a ruling about reverse-engineering) < 1399755925 297614 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I implement someone else's API and by chance happen to choose the same parameter names (i.e. the source code of the two declarations is identical, modulo whitespace) I should still be safe, I guess < 1399755927 353909 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do it for interopability reasons < 1399755930 551204 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: in the US it's historically been found to be fair use < 1399755936 581781 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yes < 1399755948 711128 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they can argue that you remembered the names from seeing their API docs, or something < 1399755955 367776 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e you would be allowed to reverse engineer a proprietary format so your software can export to it < 1399755970 430142 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the precedents come from DRM on games consoles < 1399755973 550716 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that wouldn't hold for overly general and "obvious" names < 1399755974 313805 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are also allowed to "copy" someone else's software by writing the same software yourself < 1399755988 566188 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: actually, the judgement wasn't that it holds for any particular name, but for a large collection < 1399755997 872009 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which requires that you write it yourself, stealing their code is illegal of course) < 1399755998 507715 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that makes sense < 1399756008 373950 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's OK to have a Math.max, so long as much of the rest of your API is different < 1399756014 877463 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, there's a lot of gray and black area there < 1399756019 702959 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1399756022 562904 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are design patents and stuff and shit < 1399756023 226587 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking forward to the oddly-named parameter names that are copyright traps < 1399756023 776100 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1399756048 830843 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: haha, that would actually work, I think < 1399756059 637900 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironically databases aren't protected by copyright laws < 1399756095 931304 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is really special < 1399756102 602625 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That depends on the jurisdiction. < 1399756116 595914 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And what kind of database) < 1399756131 170847 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pure collection of data isn't worthy of copyright apparentely < 1399756181 847847 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the ruling that if you digitize a public domain work precisely enough (i.e. no creativity involved), the resulting digitization is also public domain < 1399756194 200956 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a semester "IT laws" < 1399756198 945195 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas things like performing a public domain piece of music produce a copyrightable recording, because there's creativity in the way you perform it) < 1399756208 448977 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what I've learned is: Nobody really knows what exactly is legal or illegal < 1399756215 858058 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: yeah, that seems about right < 1399756216 103051 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you won't be sure unless a judge rules over it < 1399756221 344063 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when a judge has ruled about it < 1399756225 172350 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1399756231 334718 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like schrodingers cats < 1399756243 753631 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know if what you're doing is illegal until a judge looks at it ;) < 1399756246 979613 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the only precedent we have about open source licenses in the US is that if there's an attribution requirement in the license, you can't reuse the work without attribution < 1399756254 820114 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. open the box) < 1399756258 787873 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a case where someone violated the Artistic License on model train controllers < 1399756279 984735 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they had given attribution, who knows? they were violating the license in other ways, but courts only care about determining that the license was broken < 1399756282 498836 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not solving hypotheticals < 1399756307 504799 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even then, you don't really know until you bring it up with the appellate court or the relevant legislative body. < 1399756309 888662 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1399756334 17568 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetical scenarios are intentionally left open for law books (that cost 100$ and more) and for law students < 1399756392 881995 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, "you never know" holds for all kinds of other laws too < 1399756411 304419 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no official department where you can call for free and ask about what you intend to do is illegal or legal < 1399756421 624126 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the guy from that department says it's legal it REALLY is LEGAL. < 1399756452 510010 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lawyers aren't really allowed to say "it's legal" too ;) < 1399756486 261906 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, they are, just daren't < 1399756491 373066 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't really know any better than anyone else does < 1399756498 753520 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1399756508 440364 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a decent random factor in court decisions < 1399756528 267813 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given how it depends on the lawyers that the sides have, who decides to submit an amicus brief, which judge is assigned, etc. < 1399756541 111877 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1399756558 93203 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the real problem is that you can't have a judge rule in *advance* < 1399756581 959605 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if his decision were a little bit random... at least you know < 1399756620 779056 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can in cases where you can show there's a real risk of being sued over something < 1399756621 988357 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a general weakness of our law system I think < 1399756635 98335 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by registering a domain I'm one foot in a court < 1399756654 28834 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if someone's making legal threats and not going through with them, you can effectively sue yourself to clear your name < 1399756663 76757 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nobody who can tell me conclusively if I'm allowed to register "mroman.ch" < 1399756737 949595 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do some database trademark searches < 1399756747 742870 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which aren't a 100% guarantee < 1399756753 394552 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any place in the world where registering domain names that are claimed by others is illegal < 1399756757 580072 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just gotta register it anyway and hope nobody's gonna sue you < 1399756779 599163 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: It is in swizterland < 1399756788 464932 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't register a domain with "coca cola" in it < 1399756794 231062 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can < 1399756794 830232 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vast majority of cases, if someone else does own the trademark, they'll settle rather than sue if you offer to give them the domain < 1399756796 867760 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can sue you < 1399756797 756862 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can't rely on that < 1399756915 269602 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can design a GUI < 1399756923 402271 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a opensource tool you wrote as a hobby < 1399756933 493877 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'll never know if somebody patented such a design < 1399756956 529791 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you pay patent researches < 1399756964 32027 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't tell you for *really* sure < 1399756968 358953 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it costs a lot) < 1399756994 851760 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.usacryptocoins.com/thecryptocurrencytimes/uncategorized/dafuq-coin-the-first-malware-coin/ < 1399756999 243177 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and as I imagine the US with even more crazier software patents... < 1399757014 538145 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it's probably illegal for any US citizen to write software) < 1399757028 398229 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, parking domains is actually illegal in amurica now < 1399757032 190371 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: looooool < 1399757101 781738 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: oh, I thought that was probably illegal a while ago < 1399757105 921340 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: fortunately most patents are fairly easy to work around. < 1399757114 365782 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe theoretically possible, but it's like the problem of trying to write a bug-free hello world < 1399757118 133095 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a huge amount of effort < 1399757118 436963 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1399757119 995898 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06timcoin 13braulcafoarkulcoin 04plaincoin 07305070coin 08rfectealcoin 09stracoin 02slmcoin 06@!coin 13opcrcoin 04parcoin 07orgertinoplincoin 08yencoin 09physixcoin 02famadncoin 06negringhaetacoin 13unacoin 04poicoin 07hypejocoin 08ming-boocoin 09huntingcoin < 1399757127 118282 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who put a rainbow on coins? < 1399757136 404501 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or has that always been there and I just never noticed due to filtering colors in the client? < 1399757141 9032 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainbowcoin < 1399757147 286298 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-213-213.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: goddamn amazing < 1399757165 79212 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1399757178 382388 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :'the first' < 1399757216 69159 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] thanks to the investigative work of the owner of Bittrex, who was about to add Dafuq Coin to his exchange" < 1399757237 624458 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :About to. < 1399757258 682163 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant wait until "finnsta" becomes standard american english < 1399757280 584442 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish gangsta? < 1399757284 505198 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: fairly recent addition < 1399757300 219096 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/coins < 1399757300 796047 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' | rainwords < 1399757330 207629 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins --finnish --esolangs 10 < 1399757331 139851 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08@!coin 090x29acoin 02bdacal-xcoin 06insäcoin 13räisepolkcoin 04fundexcoin 07korecoin 08saancoin 09oikkalittercoin 02pohjuksencoin < 1399757353 235711 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"saancoin" sounds funny < 1399757360 628092 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I get coin" < 1399757416 737495 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-17-246.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1399757611 517552 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg log bin/coins < 1399757612 566113 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changeset: 4627:64a2d83fa108 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun May 04 18:20:25 2014 +0000 \ summary: echo "words \\${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re \'s/( |$)/coin\\1/g\' | rainwords" > bin/coins \ \ changeset: 4531:7f957c1f4661 \ user: HackBot \ date: Sun Mar 16 01:52:15 2014 +0000 \ summary: r < 1399757643 531713 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run hg log bin/coins | grep '^date' | head -n 1 < 1399757644 340278 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :date: Sun May 04 18:20:25 2014 +0000 < 1399757674 721921 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399757742 593792 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :lawspeaker < 1399757813 252972 :lawspeaker!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1399757830 23008 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1399757884 145283 :ais523_!93bcc175@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.193.117 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1399758103 413123 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1399758534 763799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it was kmc, he's the main user of the command anyhow. < 1399758807 951538 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://files.shroomery.org/files/14-19/968666276-image.jpg < 1399758870 736526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that facehugger's mushroom disguise isn't fooling anyone. < 1399758875 344162 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1399759027 60814 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :lawspeaker < 1399759086 294055 :lawspeaker!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1399759168 408124 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mushroomexpert.com/clathrus_archeri.html < 1399759191 314362 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a land octopus < 1399759203 512744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1399759208 587183 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar to the pacific northwest tree octopus < 1399759213 164246 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :smells worse tho < 1399759663 263442 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1399759699 125408 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399759812 116746 :nucular!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular NICK :nuculaway < 1399759948 121776 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1399760416 253786 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1399760625 554983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1399761360 159887 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1399761389 762201 :nuculaway!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular NICK :nucular < 1399762778 355287 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1399762778 541564 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1399763146 443725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0 !!) < 1399763147 719678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator ‘GHC.List.!!’ [infixl 9] of a section < 1399763148 244786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence than that of the operand, < 1399763148 244865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : namely ‘GHC.Base.$’ [infixr 0] < 1399763148 244900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : in the section: ‘0 $ 0 !!’ < 1399763158 385556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0 $) < 1399763159 587228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator ‘GHC.Base.$’ [infixr 0] of a section < 1399763159 734843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower precedence than that of the operand, < 1399763159 734935 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : namely ‘GHC.Base.$’ [infixr 0] < 1399763159 734984 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : in the section: ‘0 $ 0 $’ < 1399763165 695818 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/bridgetkromhout/devops-against-humanity/blob/master/first-printing-cards-DevOpsAgainstHumanity.csv < 1399763578 249689 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1399763816 9022 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4020:a020:4:: JOIN :#esoteric < 1399764115 359157 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :) (0$0 $) < 1399764115 693463 :jconn!~va@1-130.ipswich.cc.colocall.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: |syntax error < 1399764115 840573 :jconn!~va@1-130.ipswich.cc.colocall.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: | (0 $0$) < 1399764152 188327 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: wow, the I/O handling in the IOCCC entry is nasty. (Am I right that U[-5]=96 can be reduced to U[-5] = 92? You need space for nil (4 entries) plus 8 cons cells with a bool (11 entries each), for a total of 11*8+4 = 92. < 1399764152 335738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1399764156 759477 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1399764209 14967 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Melvar still running idris-bot or is it someone else? < 1399764224 87551 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same bot in #idris < 1399764233 320825 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1399764235 439038 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "Hello, idris-bot ignores me" < 1399764236 667282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Hello, idris-bot ignores me" < 1399764254 569196 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: but the real nastiness is in the manipulation of the code pointer to perform loops in the auxilliary code generated by k(10,33). < 1399764268 306393 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: well done. < 1399764348 642793 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it's been a while since i coded that. let me see if i can figure out my code... < 1399764698 662130 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: hmm. well it doesn't work. < 1399764710 129712 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks his own calculation.
< 1399764724 784039 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe nil takes 8 entries < 1399764751 828121 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to check my lambda space encoding < 1399764754 967294 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dinner first... < 1399764792 749069 :nucular!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular QUIT :Quit: Excess Food < 1399764864 218770 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: oh. I forgot an APP VAR0 part that goes together with the nil, which is another 4 entries. Sorry. < 1399764985 809870 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It’s the same, just someone was unhappy about the “slave” name, and it was decided it should be changed. < 1399765010 290451 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: what about the no > prefix here but yes > prefix in #idris < 1399765067 888059 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I thought that was how people wanted it? < 1399765078 804525 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just wondering how the change was made < 1399765097 933797 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configs expanded to allow channel-specific configuration? < 1399765227 870830 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I implemented configuration in the first place, such that per-channel is possible. < 1399765236 938876 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help I made a Vine < 1399766038 545578 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, as a default, interpPrefixes = ["> ", "( "] , but for #esoteric, interpPrefixes = ["( "] . < 1399766124 995368 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do people actually use ( in #idris ? < 1399766261 48440 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-186-068.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I just decided it probably wouldn’t hurt.