00:03:15 The I country I voted for in the Eurovision came last :( 00:08:06 interpPrefixes = ["idris-bot: "] 00:16:04 Taneb: is that france 00:16:21 Taneb: i thought france was decent?? france was catchy 00:19:11 They only got 2 points 00:22:00 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:22:32 -!- tromp has joined. 00:25:52 that's because no one could understand what they were singing hth 00:26:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:28:18 oerjan, une moustache! 00:28:20 hth 00:28:56 well who cares about aching mice 00:30:51 I also found out that one of my friends, who happens to be Italian, cannot hear the difference between "Paul" and "pole" 00:30:56 -!- tromp has joined. 00:35:30 Which sorting algorithms work best when only partial ordering is defined? 00:40:03 (If there is no ordering for some pair of data, then it means don't care how it is ordered in the final list.) 00:40:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:41:22 i thought it was usual for sorts to treat false both ways as meaning equal, meaning their relative order is unimportant 00:42:46 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:21 -!- tromp has joined. 00:43:45 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:43:59 -!- tromp has joined. 00:55:49 idea: call an esolang C. "maximal confusion" 01:10:26 Call it Sea 01:11:32 -!- LadyAethra has joined. 01:11:59 Hello , there is somebody here? 01:12:06 no 01:12:31 well i'm not here too :) 01:15:19 -!- LadyAethra has quit (Client Quit). 01:20:39 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:22:05 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:28:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 01:31:11 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:37:46 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:03:58 -!- hk3380 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:42:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:50:23 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dggh * New user account 02:58:58 -!- hk3380 has joined. 03:15:31 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 03:22:28 -!- edwardk has joined. 03:42:57 `coins 03:42:59 ​bestcoin akhacoin befuncitacoin chamcoin pointwispcoin beturcoin rfkcoin prnfcoin stackcoin barelnecoin monecoin shagecoin fmanicoin thtecoin plungcoin seliacoin enubicoin pathcoin 0.19coin footiliorslitaincoin 03:51:10 the fungot are the virtuous among us 03:51:10 kmc: help getting to work only if you had to specify a " real" programs, too :) libgauche.so: no such file 03:51:41 gauche, eh 03:58:08 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:58:56 -!- edwardk has joined. 04:14:19 -!- Froox has joined. 04:14:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:20:26 anyone here know about quasi-order/preorder theory? 04:26:50 preorders are just simple categories hth 04:27:08 `? preorder 04:27:08 A preorder is just a small thin category. 04:27:10 the Amazon category 04:27:25 it's a variant on tropical mathematics 04:28:51 preorders are just topologies where any intersection of open sets is open hth 04:29:12 copumpkin: did you finish topology in agda yet 04:29:15 /ignore -regexp -pattern hth$ #esoteric 04:29:20 shachaf: hah no 04:29:23 I never finish anything 04:29:29 wait, did you start 04:29:34 except at work, I guess 04:29:40 hrm, I had some code for it somewhere 04:29:44 might have been on the dead computer though 05:30:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:31:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 05:34:33 -!- tertu has joined. 05:41:00 -!- shikhout has joined. 05:43:14 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:46:03 -!- SL61 has joined. 05:46:28 -!- SL61 has left ("Leaving"). 05:55:18 -!- hk3380 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:09:11 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 06:27:10 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 06:34:15 -!- password2 has joined. 06:48:45 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39491&oldid=39490 * GermanyBoy * (+1071) 06:52:38 bug-free hello world? 06:54:01 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:55:09 Use HQ9 for that. 07:09:45 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39492&oldid=39491 * GermanyBoy * (+149) 07:13:37 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 07:29:43 http://codepad.org/BKuYBOmq <- so far so good 07:29:57 an assembly like language should be easiest to compile and write a compiler in it 07:30:25 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:37:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:53:04 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39493&oldid=39492 * GermanyBoy * (+198) 08:09:29 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:13:21 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:13:21 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 08:13:21 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:14:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:16:34 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:18:09 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:28:25 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39494&oldid=39493 * GermanyBoy * (+1016) 08:29:55 [wiki] [[Forobj]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39495&oldid=39494 * GermanyBoy * (-10) 08:32:37 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39496&oldid=39495 * GermanyBoy * (+3) 08:34:00 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 08:34:53 [wiki] [[Forobj]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39497&oldid=39496 * GermanyBoy * (+2) /* Brainfuck interpreter */ 08:35:05 [wiki] [[Forobj]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39498&oldid=39497 * GermanyBoy * (+0) /* Brainfuck interpreter */ 08:37:16 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:43:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:52:19 is fprintf(0,"foo") the same as fprintf(stdout,"foo")? 08:52:33 since it's argument is a FILE* 08:52:48 which one could confuse as "ponter to a file" 08:52:59 where 0 would be more or less a null pointer 08:54:19 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:57:03 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:57:26 -!- edwardk has joined. 08:59:07 `cc #include \nmain() { fprintf(0, "\\n"); } 08:59:08 Segmentation fault 08:59:26 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:11:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:14:40 `cc #include \nmain() { fprintf(stdout, "\\n"); } 09:14:41 No output. 09:15:00 isn't stdout fhandle 0? 09:15:09 -!- password2 has joined. 09:19:54 edwardk: after pondering your recent deepOf, i've concluded that you need a Tectonic class so that your plates can move (between types (and i realize Data may not be up to give the information)) and stab properly. 09:27:45 @let :info test 09:27:45 Parse failed: Parse error: : 09:28:03 just making sure i wasn't lying on stackoverflow 09:32:18 * oerjan suddenly wonders if he can say eighth 09:32:23 apparently. 09:33:10 eighth of spades vs ace of spades 09:33:23 hm 09:33:36 that's fcntl and stuff that takes int 0 as stdout 09:33:37 eighth of thpadeth 09:35:09 hm that gives two google hits, alas not with the eighth and thpadeth together 09:36:58 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39499&oldid=39498 * GermanyBoy * (+2) /* Classes and objects */ 09:40:08 `cc #include \n#define A(x) printf(#x" = %d\\n", fileno(x));\nmain(){ A(stdin); A(stdout); A(stderr); } 09:40:09 stdin = 0 \ stdout = 1 \ stderr = 2 09:41:17 `cc #include \n#define A(x) printf(#x"=%p fileno("#x")=%d\\n", x, fileno(x));\nmain(){ A(stdin); A(stdout); A(stderr); } 09:41:18 stdin=0x405a66c0 fileno(stdin)=0 \ stdout=0x405a67a0 fileno(stdout)=1 \ stderr=0x405a6880 fileno(stderr)=2 10:17:33 @tell zzo38 I also made it strip its nick off the front of a line independently of any other interpretation. 10:17:33 Consider it noted. 10:19:26 -!- idris-bot has joined. 10:19:36 ( (0$0 +) 10:19:36 (input):1:7: error: expected: operator 10:19:37 (0$0 +) 10:19:37 ^ 10:19:57 hm idris doesn't have sections at all? 10:20:18 ( (1 +) 1 10:20:18 2 : Integer 10:20:32 ( (1*1 +) 1 10:20:33 (input):1:7: error: expected: operator 10:20:33 (1*1 +) 1 10:20:33 ^ 10:20:59 hm that's weird. 10:21:16 ( ((1*1) +) 1 10:21:16 2 : Integer 10:21:50 so it has sections, but their arguments must not have top operators? 10:26:22 oerjan: I believe that is correct. 10:26:54 +( (sin 1 +) 5.0 10:26:58 ( (sin 1 +) 5.0 10:26:58 (input):1:9: error: expected: operator 10:26:59 (sin 1 +) 5.0 10:26:59 ^ 10:27:15 ...or function application. 10:27:23 Huh, I thought that worked. 10:27:27 ( ((sin 1) +) 5.0 10:27:28 5.841470984807897 : Float 10:27:36 ( (+ sin 1) 5.0 10:27:36 5.841470984807897 : Float 10:27:46 wat. 10:27:53 PARSER NEEDS WORK 10:27:55 Looks like time to update the issue … 10:28:02 Yes, it very much does. 10:28:10 there's an issue for this? 10:31:29 https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris-dev/issues/524 Also I miscalled them “slices” apparently >.> 10:32:42 it makes sense, both slices, sections are parts cut off from a whole. 10:32:47 Yes. 10:32:58 ( (+ 1 * 2) 4 10:32:59 6 : Integer 10:33:01 ic 10:33:38 now you must go the edwardk way and make them be subtly differently typed variations on a theme. 10:34:41 type shifting plates is something we've talked about ;) 10:34:52 IIRC, the improvement there should have allowed at least function application to appear there, but apparently later changes have broken that again? 10:35:10 edwardk: i sort of expected that :) 10:35:35 ( (+ 1 * 2) 10:35:36 \{ARG1000} => prim__addBigInt ARG 2 : Integer -> Integer 10:36:09 ( (/ 2) 4 10:36:10 2.0 : Float 10:36:24 ( (/ 2) 10:36:25 \{ARG1000} => prim__divFloat ARG 2.0 : Float -> Float 10:36:47 what's that 1000 10:37:00 The wierd name is because there’s some problem with showing internal autogenerated names. 10:37:30 uh huh. 10:38:39 ( the (Eq Int) %instance 10:38:39 constructor of Prelude.Classes.Eq (\{meth0} => \{meth1} => intToBool (prim__eqInt meth meth)) 10:38:39 (\{meth2} => \{meth4} => not (intToBool (prim__eqInt meth meth))) : Eq Int 10:38:51 Same issue there. 10:40:20 i see, it's dropping the number in expression position? 10:40:22 Braces and uniquifying number are shown at binding but not at use, it seems. 10:41:23 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:44:16 -!- hk3380 has joined. 10:44:17 And then there’s “constructor of Prelude.Classes.Eq” which is also an internal name you can’t reference. Several kinds of internal name are phrases, making parsing some errors a bit difficult. 10:54:13 that sounds like the main thing you'd want to use {}'s around 10:54:34 perhaps allowing them on input too? 11:01:55 [wiki] [[Sngscsv]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39500 * Dggh * (+4) Created page with "todo" 11:02:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:14:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:16:53 oerjan: There are already things with {} around on input, so no. 11:17:21 -!- Case__ has joined. 11:17:37 -!- Case__ has left ("Leaving"). 11:17:46 a lost case 11:18:54 Melvar: in that case you are doomed to absorb perl syntax for distinguishing the options hth 11:19:24 ( \a => id {a} 11:19:24 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 11:19:25 Can't disambiguate name: Prelude.Basics.id, Control.Category.id 11:19:32 ( \a => Basics.id {a} 11:19:33 \a => id : (a : Type) -> a -> a 11:19:39 Good morning 11:20:14 good afternoon Taneb 11:28:39 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:29:51 [wiki] [[ESOSC]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39501 * 92.105.82.69 * (+675) Created page with "The Esoteric Standard Committee (ESOSC) aims to standardize esolangs and related works. The ESOSC assures high-quality esolang standards much more detailed than esolang wiki ..." 11:30:05 gotta spread the word :) 11:30:41 mroman_: I'm user:EzoLang 11:31:59 ah 11:32:00 ok 11:32:24 [wiki] [[ESOSC]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39502&oldid=39501 * 92.105.82.69 * (+1) 11:33:23 mroman_, nortti, what are the prospective goals for D4 and D5 11:36:33 d4 11:36:33 oerjan: 2 11:36:35 d5 11:36:35 oerjan: 5 11:36:50 After hearing about PSOX D4 might not be needed 11:36:56 except that PSOX uses a binary format 11:37:09 which might be unconfortable for some esolangs probbly? 11:37:29 But D4 was about EsoAPI, PEOSIX 11:37:33 originally 11:38:24 #++ is some esolang I'm working on 11:39:20 EsoAPI specs aren't available anymore 11:39:31 but Sgeo's PSOX specs are still available 11:39:37 and they look pretty good 11:45:56 The ISO also standardizes whole languages 11:46:04 so I thought we could do that to 11:46:23 which raises the questions whether Brainfuck Conventions should be more like "ESOSC Brainfuck" 11:46:50 Which defines what to use as EOF and stuff 11:47:00 and maybe standardize how to embed comments into Brainfuck 11:47:40 (and wrap-around) 11:48:14 rather than "defining" conventions 11:48:23 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:49:10 how are we actually going to do this? 11:49:25 ask around what people here prefer and then use the majority 11:56:41 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:56:57 that seems like a good idea 11:59:06 It being a binary format is probably rather helpful in some other esolangs though 11:59:21 (about PSOX) 11:59:29 should we conduct just a informat vote on channel or set up some sort of questionaire thing? 12:04:27 like an online survey? 12:08:23 yeah, wasn't there a gdocs thing for that 12:08:59 k. 12:09:09 "Do you want 0 or -1 (255) as EOF?" 12:09:13 those kind of questions. 12:09:34 so, EOF, wraparound, bitness? 12:09:41 yeah 12:09:48 also, there's the possibility of no change on EOF 12:09:55 yep 12:11:36 also, regarding 2014-D2-R3, are there any more plans to introduce other normalized forms than FNF? 12:11:59 you could take this under consideration: http://brainfuck.sourceforge.net/rules.html 12:12:20 nortti, all of <>, +- etc don't apply with bounded tapes or non-wrapping values 12:12:46 (though I thought not allowing to decrement 0 was a pity) 12:12:56 Taneb: I do know that 12:13:39 in the case that no other normalized forms are planned, the "First" seems redundant 12:14:27 oh, actually. I never thought about what ',' would return after EOF had been reached, maybe have that too 12:14:47 at least erroring out and re-returning EOF are possibilities 12:15:21 I'd prefer re-returning EOF 12:15:55 I also 12:16:14 oh and newline handling 12:16:28 Line feed. 12:16:38 I agree, 12:16:55 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39503&oldid=39499 * GermanyBoy * (+314) /* Commands */ 12:16:57 Or if we're feeling ridiculous, U+0085 12:17:09 `unicode 0085 12:17:10 ​… 12:17:19 `unidecode 12:17:20 No output. 12:17:25 `unidecode 0085 12:17:26 ​[U+0030 DIGIT ZERO] [U+0030 DIGIT ZERO] [U+0038 DIGIT EIGHT] [U+0035 DIGIT FIVE] 12:17:34 `unicode LINE SEPARATOR 12:17:34 ​
 12:17:41 `unidecode … 12:17:42 U+0085 \ UTF-8: c2 85 UTF-16BE: 0085 Decimal: … \ … \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: B (Paragraph Separator) 12:17:51 oh, I see 12:18:08 But no, Line Feed is a better option 12:18:17 I agree 12:18:19 `unidecode 
 12:18:20 ​[U+2028 LINE SEPARATOR] 12:18:57 personally I'd implement the stuff as 8bit, wrap, linefeed, 0 on eof, re-return eof, right-infine 12:24:27 ␤ 12:26:10 I only see a block 12:26:48 -!- hogeyui has joined. 12:27:07 `multicode 0085 12:27:07 U+0085 \ UTF-8: c2 85 UTF-16BE: 0085 Decimal: … \ … \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: B (Paragraph Separator) 12:27:16 -!- yorick has joined. 12:28:41 Jafet: please standardize something that doesn't invalidate virtually all BF programs ever written. 12:36:12 nortti: yeah 12:36:14 me too 12:40:35 Historically, Urban Müller's bfi.c used getchar() for ',', that points towards -1 for EOF. I wonder what the compiler did ... 12:40:57 it used no change 12:41:01 iirc 12:42:23 where does the zero-on-eof come from? 12:43:41 I don't know. I can imagine two reasons, one is convenience, and the other is a dislike for negative numbers (for example because you want to use Church numerals) 12:44:42 well, online survey would probably be best 12:44:59 In the topic and on the wiki's main page? 12:45:34 if one of you can create it, I cannot run gdocs atm 12:46:12 I'm creating one currently :) 12:52:47 ,[.,] is the most compelling argument imo 12:55:52 no-change has the argument that is can simulate any return on eof 12:56:20 s/,/[-],/g for 0 and s/,/[-]-,/g for -1 12:58:06 ,[.,] reads until zero? 12:59:05 cat 12:59:29 I'll standardize cookies 12:59:43 compared to ,+[-.,+] (assuming wrap for sake of sanity) and [-],[.[-],] 13:03:33 So, how does no-change cat work 13:03:56 [-],[.[-],] 13:04:16 or i guess the first [-] doesn't matter, duh. 13:04:24 oh, yeah 13:04:30 since inited to 0 13:04:47 That stops on zero, not EOF 13:05:18 s/not/not just/ 13:05:23 there's always a character that can't be distinguished from EOF if you have only 8 bits (and 8 bit characters) 13:06:01 -,+[-.[-]-,+] i guess? 13:06:03 you can also use -,+[-.[-]-,+] to simulate -1 on EOF 13:06:16 just be radical and do > on EOF hth 13:06:34 D: 13:06:40 (the command, not the character) 13:07:07 Sounds good as far as standards go 13:07:30 'twould have the advantage that you actually _could_ distinguish EOF from everything. 13:08:57 also, break ~everything 13:09:00 Ok, it does look like Urban Müller's compiler implements no change on EOF semantics. 13:10:15 Run three copies of the program and merge the results 13:14:47 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:15:17 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 13:20:47 -!- tailcalled has joined. 13:21:58 wait, even better, do [>] on EOF. 13:22:33 no wait 13:23:18 that's backwards 13:24:21 hm no that's close enough. 13:24:42 (doesn't break ,[.,] cat) 13:26:34 i think that will accidentally fail to break many programs hth 13:27:11 (basically anything that does , only on a 0 _or_ halts immediately when reading a 0.) 13:27:49 ^echo echo 13:27:50 echo echo 13:27:54 ^show echo 13:27:54 >,[.>,]<[<]+32[.>] 13:28:05 like that one 13:28:11 ^show rev 13:28:11 >,[>,]<[.<] 13:28:16 or that 13:28:37 yep, almost completely backwards compatible! 13:30:42 intuitively, because if you are saving input for later you'd most likely input into a new untouched cell 13:46:16 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 13:47:18 -!- tailcalled has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:48:16 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:50:05 https://de.surveymonkey.com/s/LKP5NSH <- something like that @questionaire 13:53:39 3 is missing the option of unbounded in both directions 13:54:21 is it possible to make that page be in english? 13:54:34 I thought it was? 13:54:48 -!- tailcalled has joined. 13:54:53 nope, shows german for me 13:55:20 hm 13:55:20 k 13:55:23 *wait* 13:56:02 damn 13:56:46 mroman_: drop the initial de. in the hostname 13:56:54 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:57:04 still shows german for me if I drop the de. 13:57:17 not for me 13:58:03 -!- Slereah_ has quit. 13:59:09 -!- ^v has joined. 13:59:21 now I get a finnish page telling me that the page was not found 13:59:47 nortti: yeah 13:59:53 I had to change question 3 13:59:55 ah 14:00:01 so I had to revoke the previous link 14:00:23 https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV 14:00:27 ^- that should be english now 14:05:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:05:41 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:06:57 -!- atslash has joined. 14:08:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:10:11 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 14:18:59 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:19:22 -!- ^v has joined. 14:20:48 This is getting ridiculous. It says "Javascript is required for this site to function, please enable." I disable CSS. I get a bona fide HTML form to fill in, with functioning submit button. 14:21:27 oh, I didn't even notice such a requirement since links2 does not have css :D 14:25:12 The sad thing is that the Web at large has now successfully trained me to do that, disable CSS when a web page requests Javascript. It works about half of the time. 14:25:45 (To be more specific, when it requests Javascript but doesn't display any other content.) 14:26:11 also works on the bootstrap-based menus that for some ungodly reason require js 14:29:57 int-e: I’m gonna have to remember that. Sometimes I remember to click-hold and press delete, and sometimes that works too. 14:36:26 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:38:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Just surrender to Javascript already!). 14:40:38 -!- tailcalled has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:51:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:56:21 -!- tromp has joined. 15:05:46 -!- boily has joined. 15:33:31 -!- nucular has joined. 15:33:41 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 15:33:42 -!- nucular has joined. 15:43:40 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:51:09 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:51:37 -!- ^v has joined. 15:54:48 -!- blitter64 has joined. 16:08:36 -!- Bike has joined. 16:45:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:45:59 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:47:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:51:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 16:51:41 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:52:15 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 17:02:27 -!- mhi^ has joined. 17:10:07 -!- conehead has joined. 17:14:27 -!- conehead has quit (Changing host). 17:14:27 -!- conehead has joined. 17:18:06 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:18:10 -!- not^v has joined. 17:18:11 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39504&oldid=39380 * GermanyBoy * (+141) Forobj 17:19:24 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:19:50 -!- not^v has joined. 17:20:16 [wiki] [[Forobj]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39505&oldid=39503 * GermanyBoy * (+10) 17:21:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:23:07 http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/31357.html 17:32:11 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:32:31 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:32:45 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:32:54 -!- Froox has joined. 17:36:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:43:31 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 17:43:39 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:43:54 -!- ^v has joined. 17:45:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:47:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Malltog * New user account 17:54:11 -!- boily has joined. 17:55:40 good fternoon! we have a song contest? 17:55:48 @massages-loud 17:55:48 kmc asked 2d 16h 48m 25s ago: what's the deal with your quit messages? 17:56:08 kmc: eh... eeeeeeeeh... >_>'... 17:58:30 boily: we do 17:58:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 18:00:44 The esoteric song contest! 18:04:05 -!- conehead has joined. 18:04:23 -!- conehead has quit (Changing host). 18:04:23 -!- conehead has joined. 18:05:00 mrhelloman_. Tanelle. 18:05:24 any subscribers? contestants? judges? bloopers? 18:09:10 hoily 18:09:41 https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3472/3373021846_838c8b0089_o.jpg 18:10:58 * boily twitches, drools and overdoses with a manic grin 18:10:58 oh no 18:11:07 oh oui... ouiiii... 18:16:17 -!- hk3380 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:18:00 It's Tokyo 18:25:34 -!- atslash has joined. 18:27:21 [wiki] [[Improbable]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39506 * Malltog * (+1432) Created page with "'''Improbable''' is a register- and tape-based esoteric language focusing on succinctness. A tape is called the datastore, and is 256 bytes long. The register is one byte. The..." 18:27:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:27:53 -!- augur has joined. 18:28:59 why is succinctness such a long word 18:29:37 not a very succint word, eh 18:30:38 it's heterological 18:32:24 is heterological heterological 18:32:26 can a word be partially heterological? 18:32:32 sounds russell's paradox-y 18:32:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:32:58 nice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grelling%E2%80%93Nelson_paradox#Similarities_with_Russell.27s_paradox 18:37:04 boily: bilogical? 18:37:05 :) 18:37:39 boilogicaly: that which is sane and logical in my head. 18:38:13 Like chicken? 18:38:25 like chicken. 18:38:45 (can't blame chicken. it tastes good!) 19:06:46 -!- hk3380 has joined. 19:09:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: The set of chickens that aren't contained in those chickens). 19:15:54 https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV <- Brainfuck Survey 19:18:20 -!- nortti has set topic: The dead serious channel | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 19:37:56 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:40:28 -!- blitter64 has joined. 19:44:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 19:51:12 [wiki] [[Improbable]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39507&oldid=39506 * Malltog * (+2) Clarified external link 20:03:41 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 20:04:42 Is anyone planning to implement Pinkcode? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pinkcode 20:28:41 That looks a bit interesting 20:32:10 -!- augur has joined. 20:34:06 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:36:32 I don't get what cell ownership affects, though 20:37:19 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:53:11 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:53:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:53:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 20:53:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:57:37 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:04:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:09:34 -!- rapido has joined. 21:09:37 -!- blitter64 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:10:26 -!- rapido_ has joined. 21:11:26 has anyone been into http://www.availlang.org ? 21:12:49 avail has a very interesting type system married with functional purity 21:13:29 it appears esoteric because of its *very* free syntax 21:13:45 but the semantics are very solid 21:13:48 -!- rapido has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:13:48 -!- rapido_ has changed nick to rapido. 21:15:04 it doesn't look very pure 21:15:41 oh? but everything is pure except for variables (of course!) 21:16:32 the type system is pretty nifty 21:17:08 rapido: if reader : []→string and writer : [string]→⊤ are ever going to get specified as things that do IO (as the text suggests), then it is unlikely they can have those types in a pure language. 21:17:10 it has multmethod dispatch on precise types 21:17:33 those variables also seem to clearly be mutable 21:17:37 ah, the reader and write stuff 21:17:51 yes, variables are mutable 21:18:00 but very cleverly so 21:18:16 sure, but it's not pure :P 21:18:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:18:45 I guess "functional purity" could just mean purity of paradigm there rather than "purely functional". 21:19:10 but I'm not quite sure "functional" exists as a meaningful paradigm in itself if you don't at least imply the language is pure 21:19:32 yeah, i know what you mean 21:21:01 the language seems interesting at a glance, though the syntax is hard to get over. 21:21:19 every language is suddenly ‘functional’ because that’s fashionable to say 21:21:39 yeah, the syntax is hard because it’s completely free form 21:21:52 (which i rather like) 21:22:52 because we should talk about semantics - no? 9.9 21:23:10 yeah, but syntax is easier to argue about 21:23:39 let's argue about the syntax of comments 21:24:45 i recommend borrowing the -- (...) (...) ... from Reaper. 21:24:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:25:02 (my vancient aporware language) 21:25:05 oops 21:26:07 I still want you to finish that. 21:26:16 what about this avail gem? http://www.availlang.org/_examples/rpn/RPN.avail 21:26:30 i’m very much into postfix syntax 21:28:01 but that example just renders syntax arguments moot 21:29:14 i sense some COBOL/ADA inspiration. 21:29:15 but, it could be that avail is an advertisment for babelism 21:29:29 and apl 21:29:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:30:28 you could also say that article provides more fuel for syntax arguments than anyone could ever need :p 21:31:08 see: https://trac.availlang.org/browser/avail/Avail/distro/src/avail/Avail.avail/Foundation.avail/Sets.avail 21:32:09 fyi i’m totally in love with avail 21:32:34 it’s like my language enchilada, but with types 21:33:50 oh, yeah utf-8 21:36:34 types are like enchiladas 21:37:21 oerjan: ah? i never tasted such a type of enchilada 21:37:51 you need to wear a hazmat suit 21:38:45 in the middle of a desert 21:39:33 to get your urine recycled 21:39:34 ? 21:39:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:39:56 that _may_ be why. 21:40:19 (i'm just parodying monad analogies here, assuming they're going over your head) 21:40:46 god, i need urine but i’m wearing this suit 21:40:59 urine a bit of trouble then 21:41:13 -!- Bike has joined. 21:41:15 monad analogies go over my head because i ignore them 21:41:36 monads thus 21:42:20 Monads are like burritos: nobody understands them. 21:42:31 good, good. once a monad analogy gets into your head you cannot get it out again. 21:43:31 pikhq: i'm pretty sure edwardk does. 21:43:49 edwardk, burrito god. 21:44:15 burritos rule, though.... 21:45:01 nope, they fligh right over my head - because i duck 21:46:37 duck is rather tasty too 21:46:55 good point 21:46:55 duck typing - nah 21:47:48 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:48:59 edwardk: are you a burrito expert twh 21:54:27 :t elemIndices 21:54:28 Eq a => a -> [a] -> [Int] 21:56:22 just to show off my new love, she’s a rare kind of type (of types of types): http://www.availlang.org/about-avail/documentation/type-system/metatypes.html 21:57:39 oerjan: i've been known to wrap code in a burrito or two 21:57:58 oerjan: what can i help you with? 21:58:25 i do maintain the burrito transformer library ;) 21:58:42 we were merely wondering if the monad-burrito correspondence held for you 22:00:26 @hoogle liftST 22:00:28 Language.Haskell.TH.Syntax liftString :: String -> Q Exp 22:00:37 ...nope. 22:00:39 ( Type 22:00:40 Type : Type 22:11:16 :t cont 22:11:17 ((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a 22:11:48 Cont r a variant 22:12:01 hm why doesn't that give a general MonadCont 22:12:06 :t state 22:12:07 MonadState s m => (s -> (a, s)) -> m a 22:12:15 like this one 22:13:21 edwardk: i suppose as the maintainer of the burrito transformer library you should know that? 22:13:27 comonads are more like burritos to me 22:13:34 you can always unwrap them 22:13:56 aha 22:14:39 anyways, cont can't be upgraded the way you want. m occurs in both positive and negative position in it 22:14:50 :t ContT 22:14:50 darn 22:14:51 ((a -> m r) -> m r) -> ContT r m a 22:15:28 hm 22:15:50 you _could_ do it from the Codensity version, right? 22:16:12 i mean, a forall on the r would suffice. 22:16:27 you've stumbled on the difference between MonadTrans and something stronger that permits an injection t Identity a -> t m a or (MonadHoist t, Monad m , Monad n) => (forall a. m a -> n a) -> t m a -> t n a 22:16:58 i haven't checked naturality of hoisting for Codensity 22:17:40 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 22:17:58 hi mark 22:18:39 we should consider creating an avail channel 22:20:11 -!- Eritzap has joined. 22:21:59 edwardk: i'm just wondering if you can write something of type MonadCont m => (forall r. (a -> r) -> r) -> m a 22:22:16 forall r? sure 22:22:19 that one is easy 22:22:31 pick r = m r' 22:22:45 for full Codensity? 22:22:54 :t callCC 22:22:55 MonadCont m => ((a -> m b) -> m a) -> m a 22:23:04 hm that's not quite the right type 22:23:16 not calCC 22:23:23 you can't callCC with Codensity 22:23:28 but you can lower codensity to Cont 22:23:35 edwardk: i'm talking about MonadCont 22:24:04 since that is, after all, it's only specific method. 22:24:10 trivial :: Codensity m a -> ContT r m a; trivial = ContT . runCodensity 22:24:12 *its 22:24:15 Ghoul_: sorry, i thought you were someone else. 22:24:19 but handling all of MonadCont I don't expect 22:26:55 hm. 22:28:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:30:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:30:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 22:31:32 -!- Eritzap has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:38:37 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 22:50:30 edwardk: oh duh of course callCC has the right type to lift Codensity Identity a, just set b = a. 22:50:58 yeah 22:51:17 er wait 22:51:21 er 22:51:24 :t runCodensity 22:51:25 your statement is a bit different 22:51:25 Not in scope: ‘runCodensity’ 22:51:25 Perhaps you meant ‘runIdentity’ (imported from Control.Monad.Identity) 22:51:56 I was just running Codensity m a in ContT r m a -- unquantifying r 22:53:06 my er was because i realized m worked instead of Identity 22:53:29 i just needed to look up that i remembered the definition of Codensity. 22:53:37 *correctly 22:55:47 :t callCC :: MonadCont m => (forall z. (a -> m z) -> m z) -> m a 22:55:48 Couldn't match type ‘(a1 -> m1 b0) -> m1 a1’ 22:55:48 with ‘forall z. (a1 -> m1 z) -> m1 z’ 22:55:48 Expected type: (forall z. (a1 -> m1 z) -> m1 z) -> m1 a1 22:56:06 you can lift Codensity Identity as well of course. 22:56:21 no need to callCC 22:56:25 hm i guess i need a let 22:56:26 just use the ContT constructor 22:56:28 :t ContT 22:56:29 ((a -> m r) -> m r) -> ContT r m a 22:56:46 :t Data.Functor.Codensity.Codensity 22:56:47 Not in scope: data constructor ‘Data.Functor.Codensity.Codensity’ 22:56:50 if I start learning now, I'll understand this in about 15 years. 22:57:05 @let newtype Codensity m a = Codensity { runCodensity :: forall r. (a -> m r) -> m r } 22:57:05 Parse failed: TypeOperators is not enabled 22:57:10 :t let r2cCC f = callCC f; r2cCC :: MonadCont m => (forall z. (a -> m z) -> m z) -> m a in r2cCC 22:57:11 MonadCont m => (forall z. (a -> m z) -> m z) -> m a 22:57:43 oh you keep trying for full MonadCont 22:57:51 :t callCC 22:57:52 MonadCont m => ((a -> m b) -> m a) -> m a 22:57:57 well yes, and it seems to work 22:58:22 seems plausible 22:58:35 it fits my understanding of how you can use the continuation in codensity 22:58:44 :t let r2cCC cd = callCC (runCodensity cd) in r2cCC 22:58:45 Not in scope: ‘runCodensity’ 22:58:45 Perhaps you meant ‘runIdentity’ (imported from Control.Monad.Identity) 22:59:01 oh your definition failed 22:59:26 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:00:09 int-e: i think lambdabot @let is missing some extension to allow foralls in data types 23:29:01 -!- augur has joined. 23:40:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:51:26 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).