< 1400803262 453544 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400803451 176019 :nooodl!~nooodl@72.153-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1400803458 381243 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400803633 205896 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got confused and thought 'grenade stack' was the name of the exploit random fields harden < 1400803642 653218 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :against < 1400803705 87423 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's #![experimental] do? < 1400803781 757006 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using it will cause a warning unless you have #[allow(experimental)] at the use site < 1400803802 546328 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#[foo] is an attribute that applies to the next item (function definition, module, struct definition, etc.) < 1400803811 522065 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#![foo] is an attribute that applies to the item which contains the attribute < 1400803830 11216 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: love that snarky reply < 1400803835 821505 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :often a whole file (which is a module) < 1400804141 140465 :BeingUntoDeath!~BeingUnto@173-31-68-167.client.mchsi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1400804360 812192 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately you can't put #[allow(experimental)] on an arbitrary block of code, just an item < 1400804385 794077 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :resulting in this nonsense: https://github.com/kmcallister/html5/blob/master/macros/atom/mod.rs#L64-L72 < 1400804545 332546 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks. < 1400804700 118458 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1400804705 410846 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll fix it!! < 1400804802 944131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1400805710 71149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can do [2,1..0], if you didn't know < 1400805765 804537 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,3,3..7] < 1400805767 179790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:7: parse error on input ‘..’ < 1400806108 984621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no i was just testing a corner case in some SO code < 1400806161 274186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or was it reddit < 1400806507 354609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400807250 950881 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. I have a function that does assert!(self.foo.is_none()) and another which sets self.foo = Some(x), but the latter function is never called, so rustc warns me that the assert is dead code < 1400807254 972202 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am impressed < 1400807544 884877 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes me wonder if you should be able to tell the compiler it's okay if certain forms, like an assert, are dead/can be removed < 1400807593 315325 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400807636 271292 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can < 1400807645 279833 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making the assert!() macro expand into something with #[allow(dead_code)] < 1400807755 659829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm, I thought the function containing the assert wasn't dead but it actually was < 1400807758 662881 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I am less impressed < 1400807780 400985 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1400807933 418455 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400808031 201708 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400808444 799882 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the HTML5 parsing algorithm interesting in any way other than being thoroughly specified? < 1400808450 951071 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I should attempt to read it < 1400808535 986447 :xk002!~001@109.49.20.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400808639 744304 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's astoundingly complicated < 1400808670 934547 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing can be explained < 1400808672 309636 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in a particularly interesting way < 1400808681 894045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly a record of historical mistakes < 1400808688 515356 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the most descriptivist technical standard I've ever seen < 1400808697 279933 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: FLABBERGASTING CHICKEN < 1400808698 111098 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of that, help me understand poincare compactification. imo better than html < 1400808698 789374 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the entirety of the WHATWG webapps spec) < 1400808715 818185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finding writing a HTML parser to be interesting, though, but more because there are interesting implementation challenges < 1400808724 854097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of excuses to use macros < 1400808730 532565 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's interesting as a record of historical mistakes. Does it explain the mistakes and where they're found and how they came about? < 1400808733 284440 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see that < 1400808735 115359 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very well < 1400808750 381833 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why is my build bot failing... oh, because I'm using language features that aren't merged upstream yet" < 1400808847 387360 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm continually amused by how ahistorical the sciences are < 1400808860 963460 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros are the reason my tokenizer is 900 lines instead of 6,000 like the others < 1400808871 557181 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i saw a wikipedia article that said one algorithm could be considered as an improvement of another, with the minor caveat that the improved algorithm was invented first < 1400808903 805265 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1400809002 864444 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: missing abstractions in the language, or is it hard to imagine a language that would provide those macros natively? < 1400809038 564749 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just concision < 1400809048 119357 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in Haskell it might be a monad DSL rather than a macro DSL < 1400809243 729153 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When authors use the canvas element, they must also provide content that, when presented to the user, conveys essentially the same function or purpose as the bitmap canvas." < 1400809259 697616 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems easy enough for arbitrary HTML5 games < 1400809293 233720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1400809435 232388 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the canvas has no pixels (i.e. either its horizontal dimension or its vertical dimension is zero) then the method must return the string "data:,". (This is the shortest data: URL; it represents the empty string in a text/plain resource.) < 1400809436 311781 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1400809462 634765 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why would you want to do that instead of a 0 size png resource? < 1400809545 136618 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the canvas is resizeable < 1400809576 396249 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant why give a text/plain for an image just because it's weird < 1400809605 5115 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you have a drawing application that's resizeable, and it has an export-as-dataurl function, say. < 1400809629 675343 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: feast your eyes on this nonsense http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/scripting-1.html#already-started < 1400809647 173951 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, drop the anchor from that url < 1400809723 527920 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"where possible", I'm fine with that. Although I guess that's distinct from "where feasible", so maybe not. < 1400809831 218521 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400809989 116417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the stack of script settings objects is empty, perform a microtask checkpoint." what is this i don't even < 1400810019 160549 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :workers? < 1400810020 930374 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like deciding to standardize Perl by translating the interpreter from C to English < 1400810316 432698 :Slereah_!~jackal@176.222.51.233 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1400810552 475870 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1400810802 50925 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_File_API < 1400810813 412016 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does this link to the Geolocation API? < 1400811180 136111 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bad if the majority of my parsing logic is in match-arm guards (containing more matches) of 50+ lines < 1400811805 749399 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, I can make images based off of canvas elements with just a bit more difficulty than downloading an img < 1400811833 677167 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is .toDataURL() on the canvas element and not the context? < 1400811925 536666 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like so https://github.com/kmcallister/html5/blob/master/src/tree_builder/mod.rs#L352-L422 < 1400811931 260191 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me Sgeo < 1400811952 419779 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Canvas API is so... imperative < 1400812175 96814 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://diveintohtml5.info/semantics.html < 1400812343 625935 :realzies!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400812344 886690 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dive into < 1400812349 519417 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400812487 531885 :realz!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat JOIN :#esoteric < 1400813115 299375 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That this step happens before the next one honoring the HTTP Content-Type header is a willful violation of the HTTP specification, motivated by a desire to be maximally compatible with legacy content." < 1400813134 618275 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.... is the HTTP spec ... incorrect, then? Or ...? < 1400813150 829754 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When two specs fight, what should someone trying to be maximally conformant do? < 1400813170 79914 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan loudly < 1400813257 444146 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip a coin < 1400813282 536328 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ryeall, do whichever one makes fewer users angry < 1400813284 718979 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :really* < 1400813301 720712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two chickens in my backyard < 1400813311 350421 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they had a staring contest with a cat < 1400813985 152961 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400815869 957168 :xk002!~001@109.49.20.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400816329 451700 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1400817101 432042 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you read new Freefall? < 1400817117 593085 :BeingUntoDeath!~BeingUnto@173-31-68-167.client.mchsi.com QUIT : < 1400817307 498507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just about to < 1400817357 96058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1400817689 443729 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1400817830 157321 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1400817919 782182 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo : of course the canvas api is imperative... has to be usable by less experimented coders < 1400818115 933873 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1400818669 583081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Good thing to keep in mind with .toDataURL is that it has size limits in some browsers. < 1400818724 337067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, rather, data: URIs do. < 1400818727 341501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=45395 < 1400818820 160875 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, MDN has Chrome-specific information < 1400818822 90699 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chrome supports the image/webp type." < 1400818867 574587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1.5 megs -- two + base64 overhead -- is not very much for a .png file.) < 1400818882 266786 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the web: where even moving an image from an image renderer to an image viewer involves a wacky, text-based format with implementation-specific limitations < 1400818990 84683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I worked around it by parsing the data: URI manually into a blob, and then producing a URL for that. < 1400819067 984101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome does "new Blob(...)" and URL.createObjectURL just fine, but not the toBlob method on the canvas. < 1400819084 223039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did when I was writing this, anyway. < 1400819299 43380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1400819867 557573 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400819924 751846 :diginet_!~diginet@li427-52.members.linode.com NICK :diginet\ < 1400819928 398896 :diginet\!~diginet@li427-52.members.linode.com NICK :diginet < 1400820168 141189 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1400820327 777733 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400820338 753518 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay Firefox OS, the most open mobile OS ever, with neat features such as APIs that can only be used by apps preinstalled by the OEM < 1400820626 915931 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as god intended < 1400820855 389876 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is interesting how Firefox OS app SOP is normal SOP * app < 1400820861 398058 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc < 1400821210 404117 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use your words, sgeo < 1400821251 506211 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is interested how Firefox OS Single-origin Policy is effectively a pair of the normal website origin and the app itself < 1400822553 313638 :Animatronicity!4672a3ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.114.163.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400822616 19580 :Animatronicity!4672a3ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.114.163.171 QUIT :Client Quit < 1400823093 162 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1400823116 489060 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400823294 519349 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :258EAFA5-E914-47DA-95CA-C5AB0DC85B11 < 1400823735 301325 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, arbitrary Blobs can be sent using WebSocket < 1400823785 487044 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there are more obvious ways to send that data < 1400823825 700509 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400823952 871870 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bicyclidine < 1400824096 471461 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Throughout the web platform "activate" is intentionally misnamed as "click"." < 1400824103 112795 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"User agents are strongly encouraged to make window.focus() work from within the event listener for the event named click as a means of focusing the browsing context related to the notification." < 1400825018 345466 :Slereah_!~jackal@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400825107 238040 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1400825449 413106 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400825670 735458 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda! < 1400826192 795980 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400826215 771784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "semi-honest". < 1400826341 921761 :Slereah_!~jackal@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400826368 437443 :MoALTz!~no@user-5-173-28-196.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1400826579 709010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/jgiW also rather funny footer for a spam email. < 1400826652 194547 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :6500000000 million < 1400826710 193952 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1400826778 139757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of money. < 1400826866 460324 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In fact, the SpamAssassin rule "LOTS_OF_MONEY" also triggered on it.) < 1400826948 338548 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin" < 1400827042 800736 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i got spam that claimed to be from "LTG Keith B. Alexander, USA. Commander, U.S. Cyber Command, Director, National Security Agency, Chief, Central Security Service" < 1400827053 382862 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that i had won some large amount of money < 1400827155 547956 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to see an email that triggers every SpamAssassin rule highly < 1400827156 370832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've gotten email from Keith too. < 1400827199 203847 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Pretty good for most folks, except for jm: I have a really stupid < 1400827199 389474 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :# e-commerce bunch obfuscating their URLs with this for some reason. screw 'em < 1400827207 86314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should archive spam, too. < 1400827228 896077 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did collect a few thousand messages once for some reason or another. < 1400827235 457804 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Would you like to sound like a spammer? < 1400827236 620177 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this way :) escaping/ conclusion, from a fnord projection, which at no great distance from/ town to/ port is eighteen leagues, and that its variation was a subsequent, often a desire to see/ lion in his desert,/ tiger tearing his prey in/ jungle, or/ beginning :) hooker's letter to you, so much/ more striking, as from/ sketches above given it is obvious that a variation occurred sufficiently marked to catch/ fancier's e < 1400827246 270608 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1400827246 779346 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1400827249 784045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enough with the smileys. < 1400827425 660869 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find LOTS_OF_MONEY, where is it? < 1400827526 312071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's the iki.fi SA. < 1400827533 16800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might have customized. < 1400827550 864923 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw something suggesting it was removed < 1400827626 449679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google does find some references. < 1400827646 213154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one config file with a definition, too. < 1400827811 958106 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/spamassassin/trunk/rules/20_phrases.cf this talks about money but not LOTS_OF_MONEY < 1400827813 122324 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1400827941 309492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/spamassassin/trunk/rules/73_sandbox_manual_scores.cf < 1400827959 676570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gives a score for LOTS_OF_MONEY; does not define it. < 1400828051 63962 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://issues.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=6504 < 1400828053 765506 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had a 0 score < 1400828189 46045 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1400828194 414549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ruleqa.spamassassin.org/20140421-r1588859-n/LOTS_OF_MONEY/detail has statistics for it. < 1400828242 837175 :password2!~password@197.77.59.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400828335 720208 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detailed results for rule LOTS_OF_MONEY, from source file HASH(0xac14038). Source file was last modified on 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC. < 1400828364 125982 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geez, needed a spam filter even back then? < 1400828520 399161 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1400828563 846969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: rust doesn't support parameterizing on non-*-kinded things at all, right? < 1400828574 26281 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just in traits but anywhere < 1400828614 158562 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~stud-heco@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1400828614 370808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASH(0xac14038), the best source file. < 1400828642 717589 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: believe so < 1400828687 325199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a scow :'( < 1400828940 568634 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1400829300 807856 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400829575 45769 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust kind of has the GHC thing where you have to turn on a bunch of language extensions to get anything done < 1400829598 862193 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using debug!() and friends now requires #![feature(phase)] #[phase(syntax, link)] extern crate log; < 1400829695 701416 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400829709 192851 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which is a PITA < 1400829761 3205 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1400829782 354827 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know if that will be fixed for 1.0? < 1400829800 166653 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1400829811 465711 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400829815 177925 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in my opinion that has to be handled automatically < 1400829937 514157 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do it? < 1400830070 17229 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: parse the code, read metadata for each `extern crate` item present, load the syntax extensions (#[macro_export] or #[macro_registrar]) if the crate is marked to provide such things, then expand macros. < 1400830117 390668 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have a disadvantage on the error reporting though < 1400830161 890360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1400830235 243846 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, loadable syntax extensions with #[macro_registrar] should be compiled as dylib, but there would be no error message when the user failed or forgot to compile that dylib < 1400830255 138528 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the user will be met with a useless error message that a certain syntax extension is not available < 1400830268 556310 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/useless/less-than-optimal/ < 1400830316 970883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rustc should warn if you build a crate with a #[macro_registrar] as anything other than a dylib < 1400830358 365683 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it can be built as rlib, but yeah, it is not a good choice to do so < 1400830387 232265 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use the syntax extensions if it's an rlib, right? < 1400830437 108822 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it *can* be usable when #[phase(syntax,link)] is in use < 1400830463 227694 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it will also push a libsyntax dependency to the compiled binary, which is why it is discouraged) < 1400830509 656970 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need to support an rlib build you could do something like #[cfg(dylib)] #[macro_registrar] ... < 1400830517 750720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if that's a real cfg option but it could exist, anyway) < 1400830521 528896 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds doable :) < 1400830543 309448 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think it is useful to build libraries that some consumers will load at link phase and others not < 1400830560 530765 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably it should only infer from metadata if no #[phase(...)] attribute is present < 1400830610 433904 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so that the ordinary #[macro_export] wouldn't need #[phase] but #[macro_registrar] would? < 1400830630 319567 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't considered that < 1400830642 218475 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking you could do #[phase(link)] extern crate foo; < 1400830648 467877 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1400830678 107228 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #![feature(phase)] :p < 1400830695 769061 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anyway < 1400830700 456336 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I meant "some consumers will load at syntax phase and others not" < 1400830706 165831 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess you might want both < 1400830713 587484 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah? < 1400830744 263493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have considered (but haven't implemented) macros where the registrar does some non-trivial initialization < 1400830752 853244 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be expensive or depend on external resources that are not always present < 1400830797 547547 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: something like, well, sfackler's phf/phf_mac crates? < 1400830818 181665 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean that you can avoid this by splitting the macros into their own crate? < 1400830823 198000 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true, but it might be undesirable for other reasons < 1400830829 850830 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure really < 1400830852 858318 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think, under your suggestion to use #[cfg(dylib)], they can be merged < 1400830881 989370 :constant!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1400830891 728366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also good not to have the macros bloating the library at runtime, but that shouldn't matter much with demand paging < 1400831000 391257 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if you want to use those same macros in implementing the runtime part of the library, you will need two crates < 1400831058 257022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine having a crate for the runtime part of the library, a crate for private macros to be used in implementing the library, and another crate for macros intended for use by library consumers < 1400831067 460818 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :demand paging only really helps if you have at least 4kB of garbage and it gets put together in the same page < 1400831069 342312 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dead code stripping should get rid of it? < 1400831092 303175 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's no way to control the scope of macros with granularity finer than a crate < 1400831120 324906 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: only link-time dead code stripping < 1400831131 621804 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't too hard for static linking < 1400831226 279470 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't be done for dynamic linking afaik < 1400831279 994612 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also build the same crate multiple times with different cfg options for each of those roles < 1400831284 38074 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem like a good idea, though < 1400831510 776588 :password2!~password@197.77.59.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1400832352 779788 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1400832629 796927 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400833460 971727 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a common C idiom? unsigned int i; for (i = 14; ~i; i--) < 1400833466 409170 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to count down from 14 to 0 inclusive < 1400833668 322085 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1400833687 434159 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks legit < 1400833696 493876 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i haven't seen that anywhere < 1400833715 618483 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~i? < 1400833730 974540 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bitwise not) i < 1400833733 916230 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1400833749 132229 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ~ faster than !? < 1400833750 359573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen that anywhere either. < 1400833761 239077 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the same as !. < 1400833766 425346 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses the fact that bitise inverse is negative of number minus 1 < 1400833780 692086 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ~0 = -1 < 1400833790 539589 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is unsigned < 1400833820 77897 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :~0 is kind of unrelated. < 1400833850 253567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it's related the other way around, from ~-1 == 0. < 1400833854 750438 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(4294967295) == 0 < 1400833866 433366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ~-1 defined by the spec? < 1400833873 182135 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or ~UINT_MAX for that.) < 1400833884 414246 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it also works with (signed int) < 1400833884 748908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was just a simplification. < 1400833886 309496 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter < 1400833887 325616 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like you couldn't define it without assuming a particular sign representation < 1400833895 708154 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :~0 = -1 (which is 'true') < 1400833902 429369 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :~(-1) = 0 (which is 'false') < 1400833911 354327 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't 0-- undefined behaviour for unsigned ints? < 1400833920 101906 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, only for signed < 1400833930 251299 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaat < 1400833935 824586 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-- for signed is just -1 < 1400833948 902951 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned ints are defined to wrap around, which is how you know the number before 0 is ~0 < 1400833965 355314 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whether or not it has the same representation as the signed integer -1 is not defined, though) < 1400833989 856138 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :signed integer '-1' not defined? how does that make sense < 1400834007 915528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that was in re INT_MIN minus one. < 1400834008 303836 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no wrap around involved < 1400834013 5414 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no INT_MIN < 1400834015 95984 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the signed case < 1400834019 695273 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :involved < 1400834031 799679 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it counts down from 14 to 0, ~i counts up from -15 to -1 < 1400834036 848066 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy: whether ((unsigned int) ~0) and ((signed int) -1) are the same bytes in memory is undefined < 1400834038 774617 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no wrap around < 1400834044 671983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't think it was any longer in that context. < 1400834047 455940 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the question < 1400834089 646151 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1400834090 130667 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming twos complement, ~i = (-i)-1 < 1400834091 671299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the signed int version clearly isn't guaranteed to work, since integer representation isn't fixed. < 1400834108 215697 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I used that idiom I would worry that someone (including me) would copy it and use it for a signed integer < 1400834120 600197 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, you _can_ use it for a signed int < 1400834152 222895 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try yourself < 1400834152 642458 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://morpheus.spectralhead.com/s/cnt.c.txt < 1400834171 781425 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the same as the unsigned one < 1400834173 299169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if you don't mind it working differently depending on the signed integer representation. < 1400834176 371754 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try it on a machine which is not 2's complement < 1400834181 964480 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, and it would not work there < 1400834186 632248 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so it's not a C idiom < 1400834194 686707 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's undefined behavior which happens to work in certain C compilers < 1400834199 353891 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're spekaing about the (signed) case < 1400834205 663983 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original code used (unsigned int) < 1400834215 649888 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compilers can and do optimize under the assumption that signed integer overflow/underflow does not happen < 1400834233 69836 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no overflow/underflow involved, as i understand < 1400834238 262598 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a binary negation < 1400834302 35962 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I rewrite the loop as for (i = 14; i != 0xFFFFFFFF; i--) is it more clear why there is underflow occurring? < 1400834325 312036 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i see what you mean < 1400834333 382996 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the underflow occurs only in the unsigned case < 1400834335 656683 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the signed case < 1400834339 590529 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...true < 1400834359 64962 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm wondering if ~-1 is also UB < 1400834368 64686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not underflow, technically. < 1400834427 73344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only get underflow with floats. < 1400834437 981504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not overflow either, if you go by the C standard definitions of those terms. < 1400834462 721951 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-1 isn't overflow? < 1400834489 853291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, though only as a matter of definition. < 1400834498 930825 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is weird -_- < 1400834500 801483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A computation involving unsigned integers can never overflow, because a result that cannot be represented is reduced modulo [etc.]" < 1400834509 325874 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, okay < 1400834528 189196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C11 6.2.5p9) < 1400834619 497861 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the standard say about ((unsigned int)0)-1 ? < 1400834684 900669 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I just quoted, after converting the 1 to unsigned int too. < 1400834821 523220 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for ~ on signed integers, I don't think it's necessarily undefined (it's defined in terms of what happens to the bits, not in terms of the value), though with the two other signed-integer representations it might result in a trap representation if applied to 0. < 1400834851 634314 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C spec gives only three options for signed integers? < 1400834865 716007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays, yes. < 1400834871 213452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "nowadays" means C99. < 1400834876 327119 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1400834879 935954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I recall, it was more open in C89. < 1400834896 166643 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but signed overflow is still UB (and not implementation-defined to be one of those three) because it was UB in C89? < 1400834922 697542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't know about "because", but it's explicitly UB. < 1400834961 983876 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the options are 2's complement, 1's complement, and sign bit? < 1400834973 100771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, unsurprisingly. < 1400835007 119946 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :still UB? :( < 1400835032 945705 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C defines lots of things as UB < 1400835051 421794 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last night I saw a poster promoting Asexual Awareness Week < 1400835053 333460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling the signed overflow is UB to cater for (real or hypothetical) machines where signed-integer arithmetic traps on overflow rather than doing something else. < 1400835057 831392 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asexual Awareness Week was in October < 1400835081 176841 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, interesting < 1400835102 791041 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: poster-posting is a tragedy of the commons < 1400835106 703647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's the same week every year? < 1400835143 307091 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just had some variant of "Be aware of asexuals! It's asexual awareness week" < 1400835150 132762 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without any reference to the date < 1400835155 683317 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I spotted it in the actual week < 1400835218 152813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's written exactly like that, I'd get the feeling that it's trying to warn people about a danger. < 1400835231 142735 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it's written substantially friendlier < 1400835289 571606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of our "miscellaneous stuff" boards was advertising a proofreading service with the slogan "the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit". < 1400835321 696921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1400835357 356423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://psedit.me/ these jokers < 1400835463 980473 :xk002!~001@109.49.22.144 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400835537 110063 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1400835537 257564 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1400835767 942789 :xk002!~001@109.49.22.144 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1400835817 469682 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1400836115 16010 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should i care if someone is asexual? < 1400836135 318192 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why would it need to have an 'awareness week' for that? < 1400836179 720452 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case you want to fuck them? < 1400836298 540667 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy, I think it's more being aware that such people exist < 1400836303 748099 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than any specific examples < 1400836313 609952 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, they exist. so? < 1400836324 71789 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appreciate it. < 1400836329 195103 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond that, nothing. < 1400836344 394837 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be 'gay unicorn awaress week' < 1400836348 597363 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to appreciate it < 1400836353 327984 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not aware of gay unicorns < 1400836360 882682 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? that's the whole point! < 1400836362 119612 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are < 1400836382 168398 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas I know a number of asexuals, including myself < 1400836382 793599 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are trying to shoot down bigfoot month for the same reason < 1400836416 967335 :fowl!~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, that means you look like a ken doll down there, right < 1400836446 923661 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I am entirely plastic from the knees down. < 1400836478 448263 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to give a serious answer to scoofy's question, but I kind of would rather stab myself in the balls with broken glass than start a discussion on the subject of identity politics at 2 AM when I should already be asleep < 1400836492 178003 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe tomorrow < 1400836496 83149 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, then you'd become asexual, i guess... < 1400836500 301875 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :afterwards < 1400836504 258826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1400836512 225259 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how successful you are with the stabbing < 1400836517 970471 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :badness 10,000 < 1400836521 92154 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway good night all :) < 1400836523 518789 :scoofy!~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nite < 1400836525 436927 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION -> zzzzzzz
< 1400836584 925713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like an overfull hbox there. < 1400836619 236193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it's underfull that has a badness. < 1400837898 36563 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400838321 132762 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does TeX have a badness overflow error? < 1400838586 463944 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400838821 484838 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1400840272 947690 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1400840321 299430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clamped to [0, 10000], but I don't know it is actually computed. < 1400840567 762874 :Burton!Burton@gateway/shell/bouncerstation/x-farkvoqgxuvyjtyl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1400841226 282554 :Burton!Burton@gateway/shell/bouncerstation/x-muahowxfakrubpda JOIN :#esoteric < 1400843139 567350 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1400843220 671021 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely. "TeX assigns a numerical value called 'badness' to each line that it sets, in order to assess the quality of spacing. The exact rules for badness are different for different fonts, and they will be discussed in Chapter 14 [...]" < 1400843362 715860 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400843612 830127 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, it depends on how much of the "flexible space" in a line is used. If the allowed length is foo + bar - baz, and the actual length is foo + f*bar (or foo - f*baz) with f>=0, then the "badness" is 100 * f^3, clamped to 10000. < 1400843631 756442 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it gets messy :) < 1400844199 233067 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1400845233 865578 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400845238 989401 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp_: Have you tried implementing the Goodstein function with recursion (in blc)? < 1400845426 644476 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1400845712 962205 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1400847650 688202 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400847994 181187 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1400847994 575250 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400848004 67006 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1400848019 236278 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400851016 944782 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1400851547 542388 :jhj1!jhj@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:3efa QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400852270 697983 :hk3380!~test@90.219.231.23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1400853745 427353 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~stud-heco@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1400854305 57833 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Dogescript14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39644&oldid=39244 5* 03164.41.209.81 5* (+86) 10 < 1400854652 460664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400855014 398408 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400855222 953941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1400855271 556257 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400855427 864648 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400855484 985213 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400855753 376354 :hk3380!~test@natvip29.york.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400855775 4297 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400855842 216114 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400856106 18202 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42986.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1400856671 108416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1400856688 519096 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1400856772 579407 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1400856820 852984 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400857142 644764 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1400857769 422820 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was recently thinking about an esolang where the concept of storage is somewhat based on time < 1400857793 514209 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no storage except old states of the program < 1400857794 337364 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that idea once < 1400857800 55964 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it was < 1400857805 393895 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of memory cells < 1400857806 935979 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clocks < 1400857814 562140 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. for a brainfuck derivative that would mean, that you have one cell < 1400857823 289266 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everytime you change the cell it's previous state is recorded < 1400857823 437025 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the instructions were either waiting or store the current time < 1400857827 536757 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can imagine < 1400857827 756659 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can access past states < 1400857832 268443 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was not very practical < 1400857895 472117 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. (where r reads a past state and <,> travel around the time) ++< Not (Not b)) -> (Not b -> Not a) < 1400859042 543571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = void (a (\ d -> d c) b) < 1400859116 154465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Not (Not (Not a)) -> Not a < 1400859116 658883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b = void (a (\ c -> c b)) < 1400859137 46785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. similar < 1400859144 794983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course equivalent) < 1400859174 995206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (((a -> r) -> r) -> ((b -> r) -> r)) -> (b -> r) -> a -> r < 1400859175 452715 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c = a (\ d -> d c) b < 1400859220 244074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so the void is not actually needed < 1400859263 264050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (((a -> r) -> r) -> r) -> a -> r < 1400859263 609945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b = a (\ c -> c b) < 1400859272 66777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn-env < 1400859272 493482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :data () = () < 1400859272 640728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Either a b = Left a | Right b < 1400859272 640810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a < 1400859272 640848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Bool = False | True < 1400859272 640884 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Void < 1400859274 466710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Not x = x -> Void < 1400859276 439421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1400859278 502257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool < 1400859291 323535 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to know that void :: Void -> Void == id < 1400859296 501414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1400859351 801511 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (((a -> a' -> r) -> r) -> ((b -> b' -> r) -> r)) -> (b -> b' -> r) -> a -> a' -> r < 1400859352 188096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c d = a (\ e -> e c d) b < 1400859388 643141 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clock language could be alright, if the clock is fast enough. < 1400859399 51081 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1400859497 967422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Not (Not (a,a')) -> Not (Not (b,b')) -> Not (b,b') -> Not (a,a') < 1400859498 393299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a b c _ = void (a (\ _ -> void (b (\ (d, e) -> c (d, e))))) < 1400859518 618648 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1400859542 125029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that looks pretty redundant < 1400859602 794917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Not (a, Not a) < 1400859603 292615 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (a, b) = b a < 1400860098 751733 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there already a language where the only control flow is looping from the end of the program back to the start if it hasn't been closed? < 1400860207 218159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :several, i think < 1400860294 406955 :slereah_!~slereah@46.218.232.202 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1400860386 628225 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1400861395 264840 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((i -> a) -> (i -> b)) -> b -> a < 1400861395 944743 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1400861455 750713 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: I'm assuming recursion doesn't count? < 1400861467 527105 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, especially string replacement languages work like that I think < 1400861493 221631 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only counts if it only happens once, at the end. < 1400861512 61746 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can only execute the same code twice at most? < 1400861524 744541 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no. < 1400861530 620603 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if the command only appears once. < 1400861537 431552 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1400861537 950914 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1400861552 316013 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so restricted tail recursion is ok < 1400861635 22125 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki//// <- maybe < 1400861752 731043 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, so I think none of them are quite what I was thinking. < 1400861769 722656 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have state you can do stuff like < 1400861786 220683 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF state == 0 THEN doThat; ELSEIF state == 1 THEN doThat ELSE STARTFROMBEGINNING < 1400861817 336772 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can set what to do next etc. < 1400861930 907908 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's essentially the trick I'm using for my thingy here which allows only one function and recursion < 1400861953 689718 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's neat too, though a different idea, in that IF is a kind of flow control. < 1400861980 411107 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1400862038 708469 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I misunderstand or will start from beginning only run in case state is a var that does not cause any computation? < 1400862073 89868 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, resulting in either one-cycle programs or those that loop infinetely and do nothing < 1400862098 91431 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :State might not be a boolean, in which case it'll go to the start if it's more than 1. < 1400862113 478940 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400862133 802704 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then run through the same if-thingie again, yet again jumping to start < 1400862144 778163 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that only part of the code? < 1400862163 427229 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think a system like that could effectively run loops. < 1400862179 389193 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use if statments to skip everything but the loop while it's running. < 1400862278 648078 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1400862304 425886 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulating loops like that might actually be kind of useful for something like keeping a hung script from freezing the whole browser. < 1400862365 796912 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since even if it's stuck in a loop, each cycle of it is followed by a pause while the rest of the browser does its thing. < 1400862385 793453 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a co-operatively multitasking system < 1400862396 634617 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1400862425 729056 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that programs aren't made to cooperate for some reason? < 1400862446 35422 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because browsing locking themselves up is entirely something that happens. < 1400862477 413140 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with threaded browsers on pre-emptive multitask systems < 1400862506 720685 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just go make co-operatively multitasked EMCAscript sometime or something. < 1400862533 923732 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :impl? < 1400862544 612464 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implementation < 1400862598 681067 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess? I don't think I could do that soon, I haven't really been that great at coding. < 1400862642 860684 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could try just writing the actual scripts with that resctriction, though. < 1400862751 26342 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: Browsers are made to make javascript go as fast as possible < 1400862804 355952 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1400862811 943012 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I disagree with that design choice. < 1400862925 633759 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for replacing native code, it is kinda necessary. on the merits of replacing native code with a language with so 'interesting' as js may be debated, but js-heavy sites/browsers apps are here to stay < 1400862945 322037 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+'features' < 1400862990 19196 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to see how much slower cooperative Javascript is, but for that ti'd need to exist. < 1400862993 18512 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it'd < 1400863057 644025 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also the targetted optimization < 1400863578 187919 :MoALTz!~no@user-5-173-28-196.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1400863620 351936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, Google Maps for Android 8 has (re-)acquired an UI to manage offline maps, but for everything in Kyoto/Tokyo it just keeps saying "area unavailable". < 1400863732 113831 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[070(nop^)14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39645&oldid=39642 5* 03John Misciagno 5* (+40) 10 < 1400864021 124306 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a term for that style of loop design? "(something) executive?" < 1400864187 487667 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1400864202 359948 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400864204 895517 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400864667 141774 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1400865143 608654 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400865202 241174 :MoALTz!~no@user-5-173-28-196.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1400865318 524283 :MoALTz!~no@user-5-173-28-196.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1400865803 578457 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: It also happens that if a Browser freezes Windows Explorer (and thus the whole god damn GUI) becomes unresponsible < 1400865821 506484 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can happen. < 1400865831 677338 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's most likely the biggest design fault that persists since the ancient days < 1400865939 964319 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :amongs many other design faults < 1400865942 623927 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it can just chug along so slowly it's just practially frozen, and the rest of the explorer can respond slowly. < 1400865944 253425 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*amongst < 1400865959 238340 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :among them, integrating browser with OS < 1400865993 569372 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like it's a problem exclusive to IE. < 1400865993 822653 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1400866001 349103 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs having full access to the whol file system < 1400866011 316367 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been somewhat fixed in windows vista+ < 1400866012 700980 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1400866018 555350 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :those Virtual AppData Roaming quirk < 1400866026 49400 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbklosgbyukfxpop JOIN :#esoteric < 1400866033 652733 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which frankly, I think, produces more problems than it solves < 1400866075 728363 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just need to make a hardware-based OS where the task manager lives on its own microcontroller next to the cpu. < 1400866088 160298 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then nothing can freeze it. < 1400866141 971566 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you tackle all the driver problems? < 1400866187 306594 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly beleive that something like how Apple does it must be the solution < 1400866187 489440 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll sell it as a children's toy, it'll be a step up from everything else in that market. < 1400866200 869903 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ei/ie < 1400866300 280162 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or make it just make it portable enough that people are fine with only using it with the hardware it's preinstalled on. < 1400866309 410445 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how cell phones and tablets do it. < 1400866349 961457 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'll call it a vidoe game console. < 1400866364 198965 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*video < 1400866396 794609 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Goldfish14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39646 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+2749) 10Created page with "'''Goldfish''' is an esoteric programming language by [[User:GermanyBoy]] inspired by [[Deadfish i]]. Only way to store data is creating functions and static variables inside ..." < 1400866403 925716 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, minus that extraneous isntance of "make it". < 1400866405 827812 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1400866410 442883 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a deadfish derivative < 1400866415 605923 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the guy from @text? < 1400866440 483264 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39647&oldid=39622 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+15) 10/* G */ < 1400866456 348831 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:GermanyBoy14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39648&oldid=39551 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+15) 10 < 1400866459 528127 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1400866460 902652 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pardon me < 1400866648 714280 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. That Elehpant thing is from the LISP-Guy < 1400866917 770304 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Goldfish14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39649&oldid=39646 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (-10) 10/* Truth-machine */ < 1400866935 34812 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1400867180 239326 :kmels!kmels@186.151.95.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400867646 460670 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400868079 500836 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400868163 974741 :hk3380!~test@natvip29.york.ac.uk QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400868566 828067 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1400868688 751671 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Goldfish14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39650&oldid=39649 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+24) 10 < 1400868715 267863 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1400868909 797834 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1400869119 523146 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1400869147 392577 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with technology never working out right? Now the tablet will no longer talk (over USB-OTG) to the memory card reader. < 1400869268 409185 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400869286 94467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the extra-stupid "EOS Remote" Android app forcibly resizes downloads to 1920x1280 with no option to turn that off, so can't work-around that way either.) < 1400869508 586617 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1400869708 579742 :sign!nyuszika7h@pdpc/supporter/active/nyuszika7h NICK :hexagon < 1400869773 402827 :hexagon!nyuszika7h@pdpc/supporter/active/nyuszika7h NICK :sign < 1400870087 408883 :hk3380!~test@natvip29.york.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400870796 142349 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ΜCurse14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39651&oldid=39643 5* 03Sacchan 5* (+210) 10/* Example Programs */ < 1400870815 446585 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ΜCurse14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39652&oldid=39651 5* 03Sacchan 5* (+3) 10 < 1400870832 820326 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ΜCurse14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39653&oldid=39652 5* 03Sacchan 5* (-3) 10 < 1400870945 986901 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400871633 633408 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400872399 984590 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1400872922 498174 :kmels!kmels@186.151.95.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400872960 724097 :kmels!kmels@190.56.11.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400873420 713983 :kmels!kmels@190.56.11.146 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400873432 762190 :kmels!kmels@190.148.177.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400873880 461537 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1400874289 919074 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07@text14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39654&oldid=39529 5* 0396.52.124.86 5* (+11) 10 < 1400874351 379634 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07@text14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39655&oldid=39654 5* 0396.52.124.86 5* (-11) 10 < 1400874655 788556 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Icepy14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39656&oldid=39519 5* 03Icepy 5* (+106) 10 < 1400874726 69435 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Icepy14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39657&oldid=39656 5* 03Icepy 5* (+4) 10 < 1400874816 630901 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy: I think the point of asexual awareness week is e.g. to convince people that, if someone tells you they're asexual, you shouldn't respond by saying they just haven't found the right person yet < 1400874839 738372 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you wouldn't tell a gay man that he hasn't met the right woman yet < 1400874913 971864 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :those sorts of attitudes towards asexual people are pretty common < 1400874924 636780 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even (especially?) among people who are okay with every kind of weird sex under the sun < 1400874941 351183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a pretty bizarre response < 1400874958 117933 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I've had that response in the past < 1400875039 582434 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy: if you don't have those kinds of attitudes then yeah, there is probably no reason for you to be especially aware of asexual people during asexual awareness week < 1400875067 654226 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've come to realize that an endless push for More Awareness on things I already pretty much understand has actually been quite harmful to me < 1400875252 397689 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: there are probably soooo many things one should be aware of and how one shouldn't respond to certain things < 1400875268 72847 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's kinda weird to expect everybody to know all these things < 1400875274 835501 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect people to be particularly reactive to asexuals. < 1400875298 672910 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, most people only get in a relationship with one person at a time. < 1400875339 859113 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being in no relationships at a time doesn't really change much other than reducing the already low chance that said relationship is with you. < 1400875457 738323 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[075command14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39658 5* 03Icepy 5* (+501) 10Created page with "5command is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Icepy]] that has a very small command set of only 5 commands. 5commands is a [[tape based language]] that ju..." < 1400875484 327886 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that must'n mean you shouldn't raise awareness < 1400875504 928110 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: yeah but ask some asexual people about the reactions they get when they say they aren't interested in sex /at all/ < 1400875506 445533 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being on the non-mainstream side you gotta know that it's probably going to annoy a lot of people < 1400875534 466966 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think they won't believe it and just ignore it < 1400875542 198476 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :v^ < 1400875561 480257 :v^!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :^v < 1400875564 987199 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@reactions) < 1400875571 73176 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really don't need to guess < 1400875576 113373 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask actual living breathing human beings about it < 1400875590 940813 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining this would mostly be in the context of talking to people who want to make sure all their friends get hooked up in some way. < 1400875637 826550 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or take them all to strip clubs or something. < 1400875640 291952 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hear this a lot... "i don't think women would really end up in that position" "i don't think someone would mention race in that situation" < 1400875646 465039 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to guess < 1400875651 8133 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask actual people what happens to them < 1400875654 702261 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer may surprise you < 1400875674 297618 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1400875682 98956 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[075command14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39659&oldid=39658 5* 03Icepy 5* (+68) 10 < 1400875728 421262 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[075command14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39660&oldid=39659 5* 03Icepy 5* (+2) 10 < 1400875742 788187 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I've only heard people talking about depressive persons < 1400875756 267345 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "they're pathetic. Everyday is a new day. They just gotta man-up" < 1400875756 600045 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I'm sure people sya dumb things all the time, they do that regardless of subject matter. < 1400875775 990037 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for people who do like sex, it often seems like such a wonderful and important part of life that they have a hard time relating to someone who just doesn't like it < 1400875845 762339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: those people don't understand that every day is yet another torment < 1400875910 748509 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I know. < 1400875940 328097 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1400875955 551146 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[075command14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39661&oldid=39660 5* 03Icepy 5* (+5) 10 < 1400875999 741017 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :first hand, actually < 1400876084 647630 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. I wonder if 5command only outputs the tape at the end of the program, or if it outputs after each step. < 1400876088 369547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a tricky one < 1400876104 816538 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the latter, I don't see why there's a no-op. < 1400876123 149095 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have much first-hand experience as well, and I would say that there is a kernel of truth to "every day is a new day, you have to make an attempt" < 1400876152 373072 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do have to make an attempt to feel better, it's just really really hard for reasons that are opaque to people who haven't experienced depression < 1400876162 507909 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes. It has some thruth. < 1400876169 234997 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to forgive yourself for utterly failing at the most basic attempts < 1400876172 352403 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only because tomorrow exists < 1400876175 707845 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else it's just a downward spiral < 1400876198 836802 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"every day is a new day" works the other way too, sometimes I'll feel great and then go to sleep and wake up feeling like shit < 1400876208 862081 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes me want to stay up as long as possible when I'm in a good mood < 1400876209 9420 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39662&oldid=39437 5* 03Icepy 5* (+53) 10 < 1400876225 805714 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I thought I was the only one < 1400876237 59366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do that too? < 1400876239 729858 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some rare times I'm somewhat happy I don't wanna fall asleep < 1400876256 257423 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39663&oldid=39662 5* 03Icepy 5* (-2) 10 < 1400876271 959092 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually you just wan't the day to be over < 1400876283 538692 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... ideally you would sleep like 22h hours a day < 1400876295 151263 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly that's not possible (yet) < 1400876318 125673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, what you have to do is stutter in and out of sleep until you wake up feeling great < 1400876339 516894 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no such thing as waking up feeling great < 1400876359 40729 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then peak antisadness. < 1400876378 400231 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could choose I wouldn't even wanna wake up < 1400876439 835007 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes feel like being depressive is the natural state < 1400876462 241102 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everybody else has some weird sickness that makes them ignore things < 1400876466 339468 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[075command14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39664&oldid=39661 5* 03Icepy 5* (-9) 10 < 1400876483 448563 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. the fact that your health declines < 1400876490 128881 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that people around you are gonna die < 1400876497 661903 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. etc. < 1400876508 219911 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you a morning person? (I just stumbled on the first paragraph here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation#Treatment_for_depression ) < 1400876542 523135 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[075command14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39665&oldid=39664 5* 03Icepy 5* (-65) 10 < 1400876568 843549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i was joking < 1400876583 516226 :hk3380!~test@natvip29.york.ac.uk QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400876680 565986 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know why people think that shrinks can "heal" stuff < 1400876710 472068 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because they're technically in a medical discipline. < 1400876743 197895 :edwardk_!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400876765 780706 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp_: phew, I've finally shown to my satisfaction that the CPS step in the factorial derivation works. It's actually quite nasty, because of the contravariant nature of the transformation. So I ended up doing it in two steps, the first of which uses the (contravariant) identity g (f^n x) = (. f)^n g x, while the second one converts between ((a -> b -> r) -> r) -> r and a -> b -> r. < 1400876786 715547 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400876788 451465 :hk3380!~test@natvip29.york.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1400876790 151324 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: So is a guy who does biopsies. < 1400876810 970652 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*autopsy < 1400876859 277029 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ok, I was going to say biopsies are probably seen as healers even though they only diagnose. < 1400876913 621760 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a lighter note, being depressed doesn't mean that the world is not going to hell. < 1400876992 415222 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1400876993 675387 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, there are a bunch of different things that help different people to varying degrees < 1400876999 115926 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :including drugs (prescription and otherwise) < 1400877005 259000 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them are going to "heal" you < 1400877042 702492 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been doing a number of these things, especially since the beginning of this year, and I do feel significantly better now < 1400877050 822351 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who can say whether I would have felt better without any of it < 1400877065 701908 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whether the things are arbitrary and it's the doing something that's alleged to make you feel better that makes me feel better < 1400877125 466108 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it comforting to remember that, in terms of the ancestral environment, we are all really really far from home and nobody has a fucking clue how anything in the world works or what will happen next < 1400877200 397410 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing is at steady state < 1400877228 697545 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my brain doesn't work right, at least there's no real reason to expect it would :P < 1400877234 506237 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400877264 215596 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1400877315 431147 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole human thing is an out of control chain reaction that started just moments ago in evolutionary (let alone cosmological) time < 1400877338 232822 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1400877345 670316 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy the ride, keep your arms inside the vehicle at all times < 1400877349 899378 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why do I have to suffer just because evolution did some things? < 1400877356 607641 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna create a Brainfuck variant where the tape has 0s and 1s, initially all 0s, which has the property that if you change a 0 to a 1 during execution of the program, this doesn't result in a 1 becoming a 0 further down the line. < 1400877374 507709 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to justify it I think. < 1400877382 801546 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: there is no answer to that question < 1400877387 235384 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you want to make a write-once memory system? < 1400877387 624296 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a hard pill to swallow < 1400877406 713980 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or can 1s become zeroes, but only invariantly? < 1400877418 397322 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and considering that religions were pretty much wrong < 1400877418 586172 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thought I had recently is: the comfort of knowing that even if your life does have some meaning, you will never ever figure out what it is < 1400877424 688671 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ones could potentially become zeroes invariantly. < 1400877426 849022 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's really *nothing* after death < 1400877433 903916 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :than it doesn't really matter anyway < 1400877434 352048 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I think there is a Turing-complete system where marked cells never become unmarked later on. < 1400877437 593781 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1400877465 565815 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, but you can still do X if a cell contains 0 and Y if a cell contains 1, such that X results in 1s being in places where Y wouldn't have them. < 1400877466 67927 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if religions were wrong < 1400877475 769884 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, essentially, the only thing that should be impossible is doing a "not". < 1400877499 178320 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I hadn't been brainwashed as a kid to christianity to some degree chances are pretty high I wouldn't be here right now < 1400877507 615378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can still have decision like that < 1400877538 167649 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, much of it can remain the same. + sets a cell to 1, - sets a cell to 0, < and > move left and right. < 1400877539 777846 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: sure, it doesn't matter, the same way the outcome of a game doesn't matter, but you can still have fun playing < 1400877543 337043 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't totally endorse that view though < 1400877552 95051 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know firsthand that this kind of existentialism 101 is not really that comforting < 1400877556 206536 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't have a better answer < 1400877565 775114 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I see it I can't win the game anymore < 1400877577 365965 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to think of purpose being a result of life, rather than the oter way around. < 1400877583 823192 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes playing it rather annoying than fun < 1400877589 276989 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Some people may like to be Christian, and some people aren't; I don't have a problem with that in general. Believe what you like; some things are unknowable, and some things it isn't even meaningful to say is one way or another. < 1400877593 491022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't win at tetris either < 1400877595 666859 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't tell you what I'd consider "winning the game" < 1400877597 966554 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game you can't win anymore? < 1400877609 873615 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, purpose is defined, directly or inderectly, by what a living thing cares about. < 1400877615 268624 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's why I spent so much time playing tetris and thinking about existentialism as a kid < 1400877618 310341 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I play 2048 instead < 1400877630 318464 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one can win but only in a meaningless way < 1400877646 219805 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :by reaching 8192? < 1400877646 366679 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was raised christian. That leaves traces. < 1400877657 936808 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were raised an atheist I think i'd be 100% certain that there's nothing after death < 1400877661 32063 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for life to have a purpose there must be life that cares about it. < 1400877678 940136 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then [] should essentially be a "loop while 1", but it should somehow make it so that <, >, and - don't result in there later on being 0s where there could be 1s. < 1400877687 665666 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means I could kill myself without risking that one < 1400877712 444428 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an atheist but I don't believe that there's nothing after death, exactly < 1400877718 75077 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing after death for you or for me < 1400877746 816460 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, there are traces. I think is OK you can learn many religious and non-religious things. < 1400877747 712499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "you" and "me" are just crude heuristic labels for describing incredibly complicated and mysterious phenomena < 1400877757 313326 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, here's an idea. < 1400877757 985908 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you let go of the ego a bit, death isn't so scary < 1400877761 711635 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: nah, there are more anchors. I don't want to hurt my family, friends or acquaintences in that way. < 1400877773 22519 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: true < 1400877780 215627 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] just means "fork and loop forever". All threads operate on the same tape, and all of them move simultaneously. < 1400877781 969130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the neon sign, scrolling up and down / I am born again" < 1400877782 116913 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to some degree you're already hurting them by being depressive < 1400877783 112326 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the question of wether a purpose has life to it is more interesting than the reverse. < 1400877794 659528 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, it's not quite the case that all threads operate on the same tape. < 1400877798 21927 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, it is a bit unsure what exactly is meant by "what is after death". I can say after death is decomposition and stuff like that. < 1400877799 850556 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know that someday they won't give a shit anymore to protect themselves < 1400877804 575820 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a thread does +, all tapes see that. If a thread does -, only its own tape sees that. < 1400877841 18584 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a command %, meaning "die unless 1". < 1400877872 331292 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things seem to show that there may be some kind of "psychic awareness" after "near death", but other experiments show otherwise, so it is unknown. In fact, it doesn't seem to quite know what exactly such a thing would mean, anyways. < 1400877895 710352 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Live only needs a purpose if you don't enjoy it. The purpose is just there to justify your suffering < 1400877906 191472 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :neutral monism is best monism < 1400877932 963154 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: so, it sounds like you don't enjoy life. < 1400877941 21094 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obiously not. < 1400877944 526814 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+v < 1400877966 536047 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I am also neutral monism < 1400877996 787966 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would enjoy it if you invent the artificial comma capsule thingy < 1400878003 739949 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing you see in science fiction movies < 1400878023 750955 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you enter the capsule and you're immediately put into a sleep state < 1400878033 647977 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like freezing/unfreezing or whatever < 1400878034 235202 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have apostrophe capsules. < 1400878044 343570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say about purpose of life, but really it is just a part of a larger system, which is the entire universe and of the multiverse (if any). That is the purpose. < 1400878067 502142 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could work like 3/4 hours a day to pay off the capsule < 1400878076 631962 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other 20h you'd be in the capsule < 1400878081 64555 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's kind of interesting how so many of our names of punctuation marks come from Greek. < 1400878098 577073 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be kinda my dream life < 1400878099 500511 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comma, colon, semicolon, apostrophe. < 1400878113 212265 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: so your dream is the elimination of leisure time? < 1400878152 379042 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of it ,yes < 1400878178 778170 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely take too much leisure time. < 1400878181 381999 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, for example. < 1400878200 147436 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wish I could stay and chat, bye) < 1400878202 639334 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: tswett < 1400878253 57006 :edwardk_!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk NICK :edwardk < 1400878253 831604 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, I learned about it from you < 1400878296 333396 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly it's also about the day only being 3 to 4 hours long < 1400878353 936723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it matter if you're sleeping 8 hours or 20 < 1400878385 400247 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have to suffer fewer hours per day < 1400878406 296240 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you sleep 8 hours there's still 16 hours of the day left < 1400878425 448173 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's way too much < 1400878506 318644 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be only working to pay off the capsule so you don't live of other people's money < 1400878512 202905 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people don't like that < 1400878612 832239 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1400878627 185291 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :he. I made him leave :) < 1400878634 282733 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I'm gonna shut up now < 1400878715 774564 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gn8 < 1400878771 382185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You were talking about using rank/select to index into UTF-8 encoded text efficiently, right? < 1400878978 474101 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1400879173 761300 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is rank/select to index into UTF-8 encoded text? < 1400879182 375586 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have new information about it? < 1400879241 945441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What SQLite does is considers any byte 0x01-0xBF to be a single character, and any byte 0xC0-0xFF followed by zero or more bytes in the 0x80-0xBF range to be a single character. < 1400879385 349919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When trying to convert to/from codepoints there are many other problems, but I have written an extension with functions CHR_U and ORD_U which avoid these problems. The built-in UNICODE function assumes codepoints are signed 32-bit integers, although my function ORD_U uses signed 64-bit integers instead (although only 36-bits will be used). The built-in CHAR function cannot encode surrogates or out-of-range Unicode characters. < 1400879488 209357 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1400879920 717117 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: edwardk was just talking about it in the other channel. < 1400879923 467269 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1400879926 213396 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does he think? < 1400879940 82567 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: works fine < 1400879955 637948 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, do you think it's efficient on a practical level? < 1400879975 754179 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: for large enough text fragments definitely < 1400879989 646995 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: I had some thoughts about JavaScript text representation: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/mozilla.dev.servo/1K2-Qy27e3A/--z3h3VhvHIJ < 1400879994 672659 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :github.com/ekmett/succinct offers up rank/select structures < 1400880019 950944 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1400880026 690937 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't happen to have a Rust implementation do you? ;) < 1400880043 789567 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. can't abstract over stuff i want to abstract in rust ;) < 1400880075 705687 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair that is also true of haskell from time to time ;) < 1400880076 370127 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1400880125 440704 :nooodl!~nooodl@72.153-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1400880209 360930 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1400880219 966760 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400880268 376209 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tricky part is you want efficient select performance not rank, so Elias-Fano, etc. gets a bit tricky to do well < 1400880563 93876 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still do not quite understand, what is rank/select to index into UTF-8 encoded text efficiently? < 1400880589 678992 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.70.199 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1400880589 902065 :ter2!~tertu@143.44.70.199 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400880677 93721 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :rank lets you count up the number of occurrences of a symbol in an alphabet up to a given point in O(1) time using very near optimal space. select lets you jump directly to the kth occurrence of a symbol. lets let the symbols be 1 or 0 for whether it is a UTF8 head byte or a UTF8 tail byte. store that bitvector as an array and add a select structure that lets you quickly jump to the kth 1 < 1400880705 797213 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you want to drop k elements from Data.Text you use select k 1s, and drop to thre < 1400880752 996419 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to take k elements you go to select k 1s - 1and run to there. < 1400880786 790511 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a precursor to more advanced structures like fm-indices, wavelet trees, compressed suffix arrays, etc. < 1400880846 805414 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1400880861 262327 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1400881001 893096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suppose then, if the byte 0x80 to 0xBF then it is not a first byte of a UTF-8 character, and otherwise it is a first byte of a UTF-8 character. < 1400881409 79578 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: I imagine that for UTF-8 you would just store a sparse bit vector of all the continuation bytes or something like that? < 1400881437 499803 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on what you expect strings to be like. < 1400881447 84555 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you'd want a select structure that can find the head bytes. < 1400881514 914426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1400881516 3649 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :rank doesn't care which way it splits, but select structures are built for one value or the other (or both) < 1400881540 790223 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here it is more useful to be able to find heads < 1400881587 942294 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :now with text we don't use utf-8 currently, so it'd be surrogate pair leads < 1400881603 644981 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the type there'd be no non-plane 0 codepoints < 1400881612 641724 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the structure'd usually be trivial < 1400881617 724433 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so you are using UTF-16? < 1400881633 904887 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assumng for Data.Text which is UTF-16 < 1400881655 459194 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its the same problem as for UTF-8 < 1400881668 270509 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 annoys me < 1400881697 517055 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 is not compatible with ASCII, though. < 1400881726 595067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the reason in the end for sticking with UTF-16? < 1400881728 359109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICU? < 1400881807 872135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 is also not limited to the Unicode range. < 1400882155 371152 :john3213!john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400882293 924661 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VGM file format uses UTF-16. A VGM compiler I wrote expects the input to be in ASCII format, however comments can be in any format, and any text which is copied directly to the VGM file can be in UTF-8 or CESU-8 format. (Nothing special is needed to support CESU-8, so it just automatically does support CESU-8.) < 1400882363 699943 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42986.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400882457 810499 :john3213!john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1400882577 369585 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: performance was better < 1400882693 629677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I heard mixed opinions about that. But I don't remember, it's been a while. < 1400882708 592569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was jaspervdj's project, right? < 1400882733 75508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there up-to-date code and benchmarks? < 1400882740 661409 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400882792 708928 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400882806 416694 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in the end the only thing jasper's code was faster at was going to/from utf-8. everything else was 5-10% slower < 1400882816 775240 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mentored the project that year < 1400882822 38260 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1400882832 216977 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its since bitrotted away < 1400882927 408608 :impomatic!~digital_w@43.16.208.46.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hates bitrot
< 1400882953 691798 :nooodl_!~nooodl@72.153-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1400882986 319248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely among by bottom 3 rots < 1400883159 498390 :nooodl!~nooodl@72.153-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1400883766 826229 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just wait for it to be rotated by 26 and it'll be the same again. < 1400883920 445340 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unicode, you have to rotate by U+2FFFF PILE OF POO WINKING AT CATGIRL < 1400884006 941654 :MoALTz_!~no@user-5-173-28-196.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1400884173 516199 :MoALTz!~no@user-5-173-28-196.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1400884211 714806 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400884219 219454 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahoy. < 1400884228 829405 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm not mistaken, this is Graham's number using Church numerals: < 1400884230 304380 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 (\n -> (pred n) (\ar b' e' -> (pred e') (ar b') b') 27) 4 < 1400884347 178363 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it'd be larger if you removed the "pred"s. < 1400884537 903272 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1400884782 132365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1400884833 356335 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could make an infinite sequence that's the rightmost digits of fix (3^). that'd be cool < 1400884853 206776 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 10-adic solution to x = 3^x. < 1400884888 276984 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1400884890 182420 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some amazing theorem which states that the function f(x) = 3^x - x takes on all but at most one value. < 1400884916 537922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: discussing graham's number? < 1400884922 70074 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over the complex numbers, that is. < 1400884926 834389 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett brought it up < 1400884932 228670 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, picard's theorem < 1400884933 903815 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good theorem. < 1400884973 501974 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't necessarily have to exclude one value, mind you, i think < 1400884977 408683 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1400884992 980115 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's either all of C or C minus some dumbass point < 1400885005 208558 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you have two or more points you have to be periodic or sumfin < 1400885009 331734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether 3^x - x does i'm not sure. actually that would be equivalent to e^x - x + a constant, i think < 1400885023 418206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in range) < 1400885055 815029 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(log 3)e^x - x, anyway < 1400885081 830975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes, i'm just thinking you can extract that log 3 by substituting x with something < 1400885120 436345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^x - x = e^(x*ln 3) - (x*ln 3) + ... hm or can you < 1400885142 339853 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :substitute y = x - ln3!! < 1400885168 566149 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :disclaimer i am tired and apathetic < 1400885195 37749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something linear, maybe. < 1400885198 62821 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION visualizes 3^x - x.
< 1400885198 576283 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1400885208 546211 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^(x-ln3) = (ln3)e^(x-ln3) = (ln3)(e^x)/(e^ln3) oh < 1400885214 439801 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so x - ln ln 3? < 1400885219 270169 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails to come to a conclusion.
< 1400885233 514408 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: just ignore the linear term brooooooooooo < 1400885245 307632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i don't see your first = < 1400885266 597140 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? a^x = (ln a)e^x, surely < 1400885273 433772 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e^(x ln a), surely? < 1400885280 988856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's e^(x l...right tswett < 1400885281 943102 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1400885288 700442 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i'm tired < 1400885402 277546 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1400885415 221515 :xk002!~001@a83-132-31-139.cpe.netcabo.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1400885424 597494 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y = x/ln3, then? so 3^(x/ln3) = e^(x*ln3/ln3)? or have i forgotten what a three is < 1400885439 622436 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Lispy notation, we've got this: (apply (apply 64 (lambda n _ (apply (apply (apply pred n) (lambda a _ (lambda b _ (lambda e _ (apply (apply (apply pred e) (apply ar b)) b))))) 27))) 4) < 1400885446 253557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might like, not confuse x and y twh < 1400885470 388960 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where _ means "this is supposed to be a type signature but I haven't bothered to figure out what". < 1400885482 851772 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1400885531 40207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1400885533 524536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1400885550 169278 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Graham's number can be written in the calculus of constructions using a few dozen symbols tops. < 1400885565 382103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :3^y - y = e^x - x/ln 3 < 1400885567 463594 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an Unreasonably Large Number. < 1400885570 425613 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: is that surprising < 1400885575 589620 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: nope. < 1400885585 332506 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo it seems much larger when you remember it's a dimensionality :V < 1400885586 772491 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes Graham's number sound pretty small. < 1400885618 523008 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just skip to grzegorczyk and call it good < 1400885680 948864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hey we (well, someone, quintopia maybe?) did goodstein sequence in system F the other day, graham's number is like piece of cake in comparison < 1400885718 704718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, i found something on wikipedia implying it possible and someone else wrote down a definition < 1400885782 454819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm to get rid of that /ln 3 you need to substitute it back in additively, i think < 1400885838 512632 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1400885845 855593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = z - ln 3 < 1400885867 928094 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if System F can do it, surely the CoC can do it. < 1400885904 172230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 3^y - y = e^x - x/ln 3 = e^z/ln 3 - z/ln 3 + (ln 3)^2 < 1400885939 361681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric := (e^z - z)/ln 3 + (ln 3)^2 < 1400885977 882426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the ranges of the functions are just linear maps of each other < 1400885991 769111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means either both leave out a point, or neither < 1400886065 394219 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. Goodstein's theorem really seems a little obvious. < 1400886106 31236 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that's unprovable in peano? < 1400886130 592941 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1400886186 150527 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, tswett: I did; see https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/master/goodstein.hs < 1400886200 437982 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes down to the fact that a certain recursion scheme is well-founded. < 1400886243 600002 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The recursion scheme uses a decreasing sequence of ordinal numbers less than epsilon_0. < 1400886264 268373 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's in tromp's repo because there is also a lambda code version of essentially the same code in there now) < 1400886322 267925 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an interesting definition of an ordinal number. < 1400886334 30592 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forall r. ((N -> r) -> r) -> (r -> r) -> r -> r" < 1400886339 391945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ah, sorry for not remembering < 1400886368 994224 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't worry about it < 1400886393 114287 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: What does N mean here, then? < 1400886395 225174 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it takes a blobble, a function on blobbles, and a function turning an infinite sequence of blobbles into a blobble. It turns all this into a single blobble. < 1400886398 216122 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: natural numbers. < 1400886402 219164 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1400886429 503952 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it sounds a lot like taking zero, a successor function, and a limit function. < 1400886450 777103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: afaiu that's what it is, in church representation < 1400886470 764441 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that representation can't represent all ordinal numbers. < 1400886472 998402 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: it only works for countable ordinals < 1400886476 146720 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At best, it represents the countable ones. < 1400886476 812621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't really understand how that works to actually do ordinal number stuff < 1400886513 237506 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The calculus of constructions is so strong, I bet you could use it to prove that the calculus of constructions is strongly normalizing. < 1400886531 714217 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The amount I bet is -$200.) < 1400886538 186564 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you run into problems actually constructing them, but in principle every countable ordinal can be represented in that way.) < 1400886568 880787 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this has shockingly little to do with my question about grobner bases, smh < 1400886596 149254 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smacking my halibut. < 1400886597 904021 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a question... hmm. < 1400886621 328761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops my y to z above is nonsense < 1400886654 938076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be x = z - ln (ln 3), i think < 1400886682 625300 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question was: what the heck are grobner bases < 1400886720 755622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then e^x - x/ln 3 = e^z/ln 3 - z/ln 3 + ln 3 ln (ln 3) = (e^z - z)/ln 3 + ln 3 ln (ln 3) < 1400886766 524904 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[070(nop^)14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39666&oldid=39645 5* 03John Misciagno 5* (+260) 10 < 1400886789 155064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh still wrong. + ln (ln 3) / ln 3 < 1400886808 638572 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently solving systems of polynomials is "not easy" and also "you can get to P and NP somehow from trying" < 1400886830 754443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the essence still holds, anyway < 1400886963 625026 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: AFAIK Gröbner bases represent ideals in polnomial rings; they are special in that one can decide whether a polnomial is in the ideal by taking it's largest monomial (in a total order on monomials) and replace it by a linear combination of smaller ones using a polynomial in the gröbner basis; this procedure terminates and you either end up with 0 (and the polynomial is in the ideal) or not (and it's not). < 1400887036 545336 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1400887039 254743 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1400887041 643422 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for polynomials you can also run into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert%27s_tenth_problem < 1400887052 498317 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll think hard and figure out what this has to do with solving < 1400887071 110816 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what do diophantines have to do with it ._. < 1400887595 894661 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's another kind of polynomial equations < 1400887613 102481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have a feeling the signed overflow is UB to cater for (real or hypothetical) machines where signed-integer arithmetic traps on overflow rather than doing something else. <-- what istr reading is that it's UB to allow optimizations that only work if there is no overflow hth < 1400887616 170249 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(restricted to integer coefficients and variables) < 1400887635 849107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't actually have anything to do with ambiguousness of representation at all < 1400887644 439898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or not just that, anyway) < 1400887695 699247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the fizzie is idle < 1400887700 7296 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-179.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, i don't care about that limitation here though is all < 1400887773 165383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie I have a feeling the signed overflow is UB to cater for (real or hypothetical) machines where signed-integer arithmetic traps on overflow rather than doing something else. <-- what istr reading is that it's UB to allow optimizations that only work if there is no overflow. so it isn't just about ambiguousness of representation, if at all. < 1400887773 524375 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1400888025 117601 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1400888311 173235 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1400888454 916375 :nooodl_!~nooodl@72.153-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1400888779 289284 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1400888779 436505 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1400889364 873212 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optimizations that only work if there's no overflow, eh? < 1400889475 74428 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM can explicitly specify if there is no signed overflow and no unsigned overflow. < 1400889493 231505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the c faq had examples < 1400889533 607804 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, in C, unsigned integer overflow is defined to wrap around and signed integer overflow is undefined behavior. I guess you could use a signed 16-bit integer to represent an unsigned 8-bit integer with undefined behavior on overflow.