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00:01:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pinkcode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39703&oldid=39616 * Oerjan * (-18) wikify sectioning
00:07:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[5command]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39704&oldid=39697 * Oerjan * (+1) fmt
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00:41:13 <metasepia> CYUL 260031Z 10004KT 360V100 15SM FEW060 BKN100 OVC200 19/13 A2990 RMK SC2AC5CI1 SLP125 DENSITY ALT 500FT
00:41:31 <metasepia> ENVA 252350Z 27003KT 230V310 7000 -DZ SCT007 BKN016 09/09 Q1019 RMK WIND 670FT 32005KT
00:41:40 <oerjan> our heatwave is over, for now
00:42:20 <Sgeo> ENVA but no ENYA?
00:42:36 <metasepia> EGNT 260020Z 16004KT 130V190 9999 FEW042 12/09 Q1018
00:42:45 <Taneb> I forget I can't read that
00:42:57 <Taneb> And that I'm 90 miles away from Newcastle now
00:43:42 <oerjan> y isn't very common at the beginning of words in norwegian. not impossible, though. (see our foxy brothers ylvisaker, if the place their ancestors came from had an airport it might get that designation.)
00:44:18 <oerjan> oh *ylvisåker, not that it matters for this.
00:45:21 <oerjan> are you saying york has no airport
00:45:28 <Taneb> York as no airport.
00:45:30 <elliott> it's weather station thingies?
00:45:35 <Taneb> Closest is Leeds-Bradford.
00:45:41 <elliott> oh, I guess it's connected to flight stuff...
00:45:52 <boily> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_by_ICAO_code:_E#EG_-_United_Kingdom_.28and_British_Crown_dependencies.29 ?
00:46:03 <Taneb> elliott, they don't have to be airports but they almost all are
00:46:47 <Taneb> My uni's electronics department has a weather station
00:47:23 <Taneb> But it's not got an ICAO code
00:47:29 <Taneb> http://weather.elec.york.ac.uk/
00:47:39 <metasepia> EGNM 260020Z 18004KT 9999 FEW030 09/08 Q1018
00:51:13 <Taneb> That's a lot clsoer
00:51:37 <metasepia> EGXD 252350Z AUTO 15003KT 9999 // FEW070/// 10/09 Q1018
00:51:45 <boily> maybe you don't have weather outside. or, maybe you don't even have an outside!
00:52:17 <Taneb> EGXD is 23 miles away
00:53:06 <Taneb> (I'm using Google Maps but roads get really wiggly)
00:53:44 <Taneb> Leeds-Bradford is 27 miles away
00:55:09 <oerjan> boily: Taneb lives here http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvv1fbrsWz1qlltjpo1_500.jpg
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00:56:35 <Taneb> What's a dew point?
00:57:00 <boily> it's the temperature an object needs to be for condensation to appear.
00:57:13 <pikhq> Temperature at which water vapor in the air condenses into liquid water.
00:57:18 <pikhq> i.e. the temperature at which dew forms.
00:57:41 <Taneb> Doesn't look like there'll be a dew today, then
00:58:16 <boily> I mean, it's all according to current conditions. you always need to chill that object down from ambient temperature for dew to appear.
00:58:29 <boily> (or, be in the morning, as in, like, you know, regular dew.)
01:00:27 <oerjan> if the dewpoint is higher than the temperature, you're having a flood hth
01:00:57 <pikhq> Yes. If the dewpoint is higher than the ambient temperature it means the air is actually water.
01:01:15 <pikhq> (dewpoint == temperature implies 100% humidity)
01:01:17 <Taneb> Not outside the realm of possibility, but I think my window is open
01:01:27 <Taneb> And I haven't drowned yet
01:03:08 <boily> drowning in you own apartment. I... don't think that's something possible.
01:03:17 <Taneb> Well, I'm on the ground floor
01:03:39 <pikhq> boily: It's definitely possible, though only in exceptional circumstances.
01:03:46 <Taneb> And drainage isn't that great here
01:05:04 <Bike> internal bleeding, for instance
01:05:49 <pikhq> Making poor use of a bathtub.
01:06:04 <Taneb> Suffering from a drinking problem?
01:07:01 <boily> tieing yourself a gin tonic while taking a bath, with your bathroom's window wide open during a thunderstorm in a basement flat near an overflowing river?
01:07:16 <boily> (and coughing from your ebola)
01:07:22 <pikhq> Now that's just impressively misguided use of a bathtub.
01:07:30 <pikhq> Perhaps even "actively malicious".
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01:07:41 <Taneb> Only if you fall asleep
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01:08:39 <boily> I know I fell asleep at least once in all kinds of vessels and containers, but never in a bathtub.
01:09:50 <Taneb> I generally find beds the most soporgenic furniture
01:10:07 <Taneb> Although my flat's kitchen does encourage sleep, for some bizarre reason
01:10:26 <oerjan> Taneb: that word is so pretentious it only has one google hit hth
01:10:55 <boily> my googlebubble gives me 5 hits.
01:11:01 <zzo38> In Pokemon card did you knock out seven opponent's cards in one turn?
01:11:02 <Taneb> Well, yeah, it's a hideous mix of Greek and Latin
01:12:21 <oerjan> "hypnogenic /hyp·no·gen·ic/ (-jen´ik) hypnotic (1). hypnotic [hip-not´ik]. 1. causing sleep; called also somniferous."
01:12:38 <Taneb> Those are nicer words
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01:17:35 <Taneb> Seriously, I had a few friends round to play a game of Diana: Warrior Princess. All of them felt tired and one of them actually fell asleep.
01:17:41 <boily> are we May 25 today?
01:17:55 <Taneb> May 26 now I think
01:18:46 <zzo38> IRC service says May 26
01:18:53 <boily> still the 25th here, and I saved a towel from the rain today. my bonne action is done, and my honour is safe.
01:18:53 <zzo38> Where I am, it is May 25
01:19:19 <boily> it's still early in Cascadia.
01:28:03 <Bike> eh, you live in vancouver?
01:30:37 <boily> as for me, time to go further the study of the soporgenicity of my mattress.
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01:33:34 <zzo38> I want internet-connection library for SQL, so that it can be made a MUD server in SQL, among other things.
01:35:09 <Taneb> I'm going to head to bed now
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02:02:22 <^v> i made a optimized text to brainfuck table
02:02:23 <^v> http://hastebin.com/guzayutewi.lua
02:02:40 <^v> the one i found here http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/5418/brainfuck-golfer/5440#5440
02:02:46 <^v> verry verry slow
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02:11:45 <zzo38> I think you can knock out seven opponent's cards on one turn if you have 1x MAGNETON [Lv35] and 4x GENGAR [Lv38] and POKEMON FLUTE, and opponent has one active pokemon, four bench pokemon requiring only 2 more damage to be knocked out, and one PORYGON [Lv12] on bench with no damage on it. If you also have some DEFENDER cards, then you can do so without any of your own cards knocked out.
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04:24:41 <Sgeo> If I watch a Planescape: Torment LP, and switch to another LP, how difficult would that be?
04:24:50 <Sgeo> Is the game railroaded enough that it should be fine?
04:27:00 <Sgeo> Is it forbidden to talk of being ok and not ok and forbidden and allowed as though they can be relative to situations and not necessarily extreme?
04:28:54 <oerjan> personally, i sometimes worry a little bit if we are teasing Sgeo too much.
04:30:23 <Sgeo> ^^previous statement was deliberately made vulnerable to the same kind of thing
04:31:31 <oerjan> good, good. or wait...
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05:09:37 <shachaf> kmc: have you seen http://millcomputing.com/docs/
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05:12:18 <oerjan> heh bitcoin is up 30% in a week
05:18:36 <kmc> don't think so shachaf
05:20:48 <shachaf> it has all sorts of interesting ideas
05:21:39 <shachaf> it's all in the form of hour-long videos, though, which is why i'm only now finally watching them
05:31:07 <Bike> is this that replacement for registers? i don't want to watch videos
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05:33:46 <shachaf> are you talking about the "belt" thing
05:36:03 <shachaf> that's one of the videos, yes
06:03:00 <FreeFull> It will be about rapid hardware iteration too
06:06:29 <Bike> rapid hardware zwitterion
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07:30:44 <HackEgo> hillocoin alecoin mrozmancoin argarcoin devcoin juvecoin moxcoin lorumcoin *wcoin pahecoin magecoin errinuspcoin finingcoin deancoin trigjcoin catecoin godzicoin orncoin anycoin fobcoin
07:31:33 <kmc> UKIP took first place in the europarl voting? :(
07:33:48 <kmc> some weird irony in the fact that the people who care the most to vote for the office of UK MEP are the people who want it not to exist
07:34:13 <kmc> I guess that is how the right always works. "we believe government is the problem, elect us and we'll show you"
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10:31:06 <Taneb> Help I just ordered Parallel and Concurrent Programming in Haskell
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10:35:13 <boily> Taneb: so you really been far as decided to use even go want to learn you more a haskell for great good like?
10:35:41 <Taneb> That is words a lot making sense little help understand no
10:35:59 <Taneb> But yeah, probably
11:03:49 <int-e> Oh, parsing fun. (Help ((I just ordered (Parallel and Concurrent Programming) in Haskell)) -- I hope you did not use unsafePerformIO.
11:04:28 <int-e> I got it wrong. I meant (Help ((I just ordered (Parallel and Concurrent Programming)) in Haskell)
11:05:31 <int-e> (I'm not sure there is a correct way of writing this without reordering the words into a syntax tree)
11:06:54 <boily> data TanebTree a = Leaf a | Node (Tree a) (Tree a) deriving (Show, Read, Eq, Irc)
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11:47:10 <mroman> impomatic: What do you do with a vampire?
11:47:22 <mroman> Making them jump into a core clear doesn't seem to be very effective
11:47:56 <mroman> I assume making them jump into bomb-throw loop is probably far more effective?
11:48:07 <mroman> but a core clear is rather slow
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12:04:46 <impomatic> mroman: making the opponent jump into a trap that splits off lots of useless processes is most effective. Normally the trap also does a clear...
12:07:33 <impomatic> mroman: there's a list of publish vampires here http://corewar.co.uk/z.htm
12:09:21 <impomatic> Fact: John McCarthy (inventor of LISP) and Uncle Bob Martin (Agile evangelist) invented and implemented the first vampire!
12:11:53 <mroman> but what's the difference to just throwing spl 0?
12:11:58 <mroman> that also splits off lots of processes
12:12:11 <mroman> I make them jump into a core clear that splits off processes
12:12:25 <mroman> and after I'm done throwing jump bombs I move a DAT bomb into the core clear loop
12:12:42 <mroman> and enter a core clear myself
12:14:02 <impomatic> spl 0 splits off a few processes that stay in the opponent's code. Jumping to a spl 0 / spl -1 / spl -2 tray splits off processes, that split off more processes, etc. They're also no longer running any of the opponent's code.
12:15:15 <impomatic> You could probably just let your clear wipe the trap. If the trap contains a clear, you could make that one wipe the trap as well :-)
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12:20:29 <mroman> ah well. It got me 103.8 on the beginners hill
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12:28:51 <HackEgo> olist 953: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti
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14:14:28 <Sgeo> My automatic Facebook page is malfunctioning
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15:59:14 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/26inbh/define_has_an_optional_third_argument_that/
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16:00:04 <Deewiant> https://pay.reddit.com/r/esolangs/comments/26ie70/favorite_esolangs_om_and_unlambda/ activity
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16:32:28 <FireFly> "Added array_map() function that applies a callback to the elements of given arrays and returns the result. It can also be used with a null callback to transpose arrays. (Andrei)"
16:33:51 <Bike> not as good as arrayfun
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16:40:39 <mroman> why does a null pointer suddenly transpose an array o_O
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16:50:27 <elliott> > transpose [[a,b,c],[d,e,f],[g,h,i]]
16:50:49 <elliott> > zipWith3 (\(x,y,z) -> [x,y,z]) [a,b,c] [d,e,f] [g,h,i]
16:50:50 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr
16:50:50 <lambdabot> -> Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr -> d’
16:50:50 <lambdabot> z :: t0 (bound at <interactive>:1:17)
16:50:58 <elliott> > zipWith3 (\(x,y,z) -> [x,y,z]) [a,b,c] [d,e,f] [g,h,i] :: [[Expr]]
16:50:59 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr
16:51:00 <lambdabot> -> [Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr]’
16:51:03 <elliott> > zipWith3 (\x y z -> [x,y,z]) [a,b,c] [d,e,f] [g,h,i] :: [[Expr]]
16:52:52 <elliott> >>> l = [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]]; map(None, *l)
16:52:52 <elliott> [(1, 4, 7), (2, 5, 8), (3, 6, 9)]
16:52:56 <elliott> >>> l = [[1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]]; map(lambda *ll: list(ll), *l)
16:52:56 <elliott> [[1, 4, 7], [2, 5, 8], [3, 6, 9]]
16:52:56 <Sgeo> "The term "bass ackwards" comes to mind."
16:53:06 <elliott> the transpose behaviour is reasonable.
16:53:30 <Sgeo> 'In my view, HTTP/2.0 should kill Cookies as a concept, and replace it with a session/identity facility, which makes it easier to do things right with HTTP/2.0 than with HTTP/1.1.'
16:53:42 <Sgeo> YES PLEASE. Except Cookies could still be useful for other things, if maybe modernized somehow
16:54:15 <mroman> so the web-server manages sessions?
16:55:57 <Bike> elliott: it's a bit weird to count null as a function, i guess, even if it's the obvious choice
16:56:26 <elliott> Bike: you can think of it as mapping with "no function", but yeah, such is dynamically-typed languages
16:58:06 <FireFly> elliott: huh, hm, fair enough
16:58:37 <elliott> it's kinda weird to have something do the dual duty of map and zip like that
16:59:07 <elliott> > map (\[x,y,z] -> (x,y,z)) . transpose $ [[a,b,c],[d,e,f],[g,h,i]]
16:59:29 <elliott> transpose can be thought of as basically variadic zip
16:59:53 <elliott> so if your map does variadic zipWith, it's already doing transposes, really
17:01:17 <Bike> i thought it was common for map to do "double duty" like that. i'd never heard of zip before haskell and its fixed argument counts
17:01:55 <Bike> http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/documentation/mit-scheme-ref/Mapping-of-Lists.html eg
17:07:34 <Bike> cos if you have apply map f xs = (apply f (map1 car xs)):(map1 cdr xs); map f [] = [] as the kids say
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17:59:51 <monotone> Sgeo: I can't think of anything that wouldn't already be satisfied by localStorage, to be honest.
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18:19:09 <nooodl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15495351/fours.pdf i wrote this
18:19:39 <nooodl> what is the next step. algebraic numbers sounds sorta possible??
18:20:13 <Bike> copying Snobol!.pdf
18:20:39 <Bike> nooodl: do you want proofreading? "some selectin [sic] of operators"
18:20:57 <nooodl> oops. i didn't spellcheck it at all yes
18:21:40 <Bike> "n+1 radices" but i think the word would be "radicals", not sure
18:22:00 <nooodl> wikipedia calls the sign a "radix" but yeah i thought that was weird
18:23:15 <Bike> oh, this is pretty cute.
18:24:40 <nooodl> oh maybe gaussian rationals
18:25:20 <nooodl> i wonder how i'd get to "i". do people Actually Write, like, \sqrt(-4) = 2i
18:25:42 <nooodl> i was taught that's wrong because: -2i
18:25:50 <Bike> well you can throw a plus or minus on there.
18:26:04 <Bike> but you're already using repeated radicals, you must be taking the principle value
18:26:19 <Phantom_Hoover> btw minor stylistic thing, but if you have an expository footnote with 'clearly' on it then ask yourself why you need the footnote at all
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18:27:48 <Bike> 2^(.5^n) has, what... 2^n values?
18:27:56 <nooodl> Phantom_Hoover: maybe i should rather get rid of the clearly
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18:30:30 <Bike> i don't think you're going to be able to express algebraic numbers in radicals, though
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18:34:32 <Phantom_Hoover> nooodl, I'm not sure you need that much exposition about that part though.
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18:35:01 <nooodl> it is sorta obvious but leaving the explanation out feels not very rigorous
18:35:29 <nooodl> i.e. makes it seem like i'm just reasoning "oh well if i just make it stupidly huge it's bound to be divisible by n??"
18:35:56 <Bike> it's a math paper dude, you have to explain as little as possible
18:37:16 <Bike> though it's not so much that it's huge as that it has any possible factors, which is, dare i say.... trivial
18:38:49 <Bike> anyway i wanna see how you express a root of x⁵-x+1 in four fours. aaaaand go
18:38:53 <kmc> https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/ad0622cffc8bdc0c5684 is this code UB due to aliasing rules? if so, why doesn't GCC warn even with -Wall -Wstrict-aliasing=4
18:41:04 <Bike> does it warn in LLVM?
18:41:11 <Taneb> Sweet, the book I ordered has already been dispatched!
18:42:13 <kmc> Bike: in clang? seems not
18:42:18 <kmc> i'm going by http://gcc.godbolt.org/
18:42:25 <kmc> btw there is now http://rust.godbolt.org/
18:42:53 <kmc> in Rust the aliasing rules are actually, like, enforced
18:43:56 <Bike> just like fortran!
18:44:54 <kmc> I don't think we give LLVM as much aliasing information as we should, though
18:45:14 <kmc> it's a recent thing to even tell it which pointers are guaranteed to be non-NULL
18:45:34 <kmc> there's also a frontend optimization whereby Option<&T> is a single word, with None represented as a NULL pointer
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18:49:26 <Taneb> kmc, can the compiler infer that?
18:50:25 <Taneb> Also I bought the Discworld Ankh-Morpork board game
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18:52:09 <mcpherrin> Taneb: Taneb the compiler is hard-coded to know &T is a non-null pointer
18:52:26 <kmc> and it has an optimization for any enum structurally matching enum Option<T> { None, Some(T) }
18:52:36 <kmc> it doesn't have to be specifically core::option::Option
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18:53:01 <kmc> but I don't think it's smart enough to do, say, enum Foo { Bar, Baz, Quux(&uint) } with 0x0000...0000 and 0x0000...0001
18:53:08 <kmc> which is more of a platform specific thing
18:53:19 <kmc> I have plans to do that manually (with unsafe code) for interned strings in Servo
18:53:51 <kmc> there are fewer than 4k common strings on the web (e.g. tag names, attribute names) that you would intern at compile time
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18:53:58 <kmc> so give each one an "address" within the first page of memory
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18:54:43 <kmc> usually an interned string is just a pointer to a string but this interferes with some other things I want t odo
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18:56:11 <mcpherrin> Hopefully rustc can learn to steal bits from other types too in some non-hardcoded way
18:56:33 <kmc> which was the source of security holes at one point
18:56:37 <kmc> (in SM or V8, don't remember which)
18:56:59 <mcpherrin> kmc: which is why having rustc able to check would be great :)
18:58:21 <Melvar> What’s NaN stuffing? Using the variable bits in a NaN for something?
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19:07:18 <FireFly> For storing pointers, I guess
19:09:10 <mcpherrin> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/SpiderMonkey/Internals
19:09:15 <mcpherrin> see "Javascript Values" on that page
19:09:45 <mcpherrin> NaN-boxing is a technique based on the fact that in IEEE-754 there are 2**47 different bit patterns that all represent NaN
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19:11:33 <FireFly> IIRC one of V8 or SM represents doubles "plainly" and objects as pointers inside the payload of a NaN, whereas the other instead represents pointers plainly and numbers via some indirection step
19:11:49 <FireFly> Though I don't remember how the latter works..
19:21:52 <kmc> i want SmallVec<T> in the std lib :<
19:22:03 <kmc> maybe I should Just Fuckin Do It
19:24:07 <int-e> that is a cute term ... "right parenthesis deficit disorder". (I've just started reading "The Art of Procrastination".
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19:25:56 <int-e> Oh, that was totally wasted on the target audience (oerjan, who isn't even here. maybe he'll read it later.)
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19:26:52 <kmc> Melvar: Vec<T> is a standard growable vector like C++'s std::vec<T>, SmallVec<T> is similar but doesn't do a heap allocation for storing only 1 element
19:27:19 <kmc> er, it's named SmallVector<T>
19:27:41 <kmc> enum SmallVector<T> { None, One(T), Many(Vec<T>) }
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19:35:01 <Melvar> Funny how they call them “enum”.
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19:53:11 <olsner> enum is a bit weird, I would've liked it if they went with haskell on that bit instead, and e.g. let enum be an enumeration of int-like things
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19:55:10 <M28> Haxe's enum is awesome
19:55:21 <M28> shame it doesn't support generics
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20:33:51 <kmc> M28: what does it do?
20:34:02 <kmc> olsner: yeah, the duplication of functionality between struct and enum is sort of annoying
20:34:31 <shachaf> kmc: that's still that way? :'(
20:34:50 <shachaf> Last time I used Rust about a year ago I thought people were talking about changing it.
20:34:58 <kmc> people are always talking about changing everything
20:35:13 <kmc> also struct-syntax enum variants are feature-gated now
20:35:19 <kmc> not sure if that's a step forward or back
20:35:29 <kmc> struct has a C ABI guarantee, but that could easily be an attribute, which it already is for enum!
20:35:40 <kmc> #[repr(C)] (case sensitive ;_;)
20:35:45 <shachaf> That's the situation I remember.
20:36:39 <Bike> how does case insensitivity work in unicode anyway
20:37:27 <kmc> you can't even do ASCII case folding without knowing the locale
20:37:37 <kmc> thanks a lot Atatürk
20:38:06 <kmc> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Case_folding
20:38:36 <kmc> Unicode makes a distinction between case mapping and case folding, and only really defines the latter http://www.unicode.org/faq/casemap_charprop.html
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20:38:56 <kmc> the former being a snake pit of locale and UX concerns
20:39:25 <Bike> haha, the third answer rules.
20:39:44 <Bike> "do all scripts have case?" "no, here is a list of almost every one that does, and then there are tens of thousands that don't"
20:39:55 <kmc> what about hiragana and katakana!!!
20:40:04 <Bike> huh that's a good question actually
20:40:11 <olsner> it's case but not as we know it?
20:40:11 <Bike> since a lot of time katakana is transliterated as allcaps
20:40:17 <kmc> I think those are generally not considered "case" and they don't have a 1:1 mapping?
20:40:23 <kmc> but I don't know how exactly linguists define "case"
20:40:24 <Bike> monotone: opinion
20:40:51 <kmc> konnichi wanotone
20:40:51 <Bike> i don't think it's case exactly but i thought there was a 1:1
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20:41:06 <kmc> maybe there is
20:41:20 <Bike> since they're just syllabries (sp)
20:41:30 <Bike> no 1:1 with kanji of course.
20:41:31 <kmc> case in cyrillic is extra weird
20:41:41 <monotone> I've never heard it described as being similar to case.
20:41:41 <olsner> some of the small ones have completely different meanings and most characters aren't used in small versions
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20:41:43 <Bike> oh yeah, how's it work? i have no idea other than vague rememberance of capital letters'
20:41:48 <kmc> print lowercase looks like smallcaps but script lowercase is totally different
20:41:57 <kmc> also script hebrew is totally different from print hebrew
20:42:05 <kmc> and script arabic is basically whatever the hell you want
20:42:18 <Bike> script english is pretty weird too... not that it's used much anymore
20:42:30 <kmc> they made us learn cursive in middle school
20:42:30 <monotone> I think one of the peculiarities of cased alphabets is that the cases get mixed in normal writing.
20:42:31 <kmc> fuck all that
20:42:34 <Bike> i personally like how script german from before WWII is unreadable by modern speakers
20:42:40 <monotone> So you have rules for capitalization and whatever.
20:42:41 <Bike> because of font changes
20:42:44 <kmc> I can't even write my own name in cursive anymore; my signature has gradually decayed to a few squiggles
20:42:54 <Bike> kmc: you know they still make you write in cursive on the SAT? crazy.
20:43:07 <kmc> on the ACT you have to copy a paragraph long assertion that you didn't cheat, in cursive
20:43:13 <Bike> yeah, same on the SAT.
20:43:23 <kmc> I don't remember that from the SAT but I took it... fuck, more than 10 years ago
20:43:34 <coppro> I never took any of those
20:43:36 <kmc> (well I took it a bunch of times as a small child but I last took it more than 10 yeras ago)
20:43:51 <Bike> monotone: thank god for the internet where i just lowercase everywhere (except initialisms, apaprently)
20:43:57 <monotone> With kana you don't have similar "rules" as such.
20:44:05 <shachaf> Bike: i copied that paragraph in non-cursive
20:44:29 <Bike> monotone: don't you have the general rule that katakana is used for foreign pronunciations or something? not as complicated as casing, of course, but still
20:44:42 <Bike> well i guess if you took that argument far enough you could describe print/script as a case distinction, hrm.
20:45:20 <shachaf> kmc: script hebrew isn't mixed in with print hebrwe, though
20:45:22 <monotone> Bike: Yeah, but it's not considered "ungrammatical" to switch them, at least not to the degree improper case usage would be for English.
20:45:49 <shachaf> it is like cursive. which i guess is why you were talking about cursive
20:46:44 <Bike> monotone: i dunno, i mean in many contexts it's okay to ignore case rules and write in allcaps, and that's not "ungramamtical" either
20:47:32 <monotone> Bike: I guess in Latin script the use of uppercase is broken down into proper nouns, sentence-initial capitalization, emphasis, initialisms, etc.
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20:47:52 <monotone> With katakana it's basically emphasis and conventional loanword spellings and not much else.
20:48:46 <kmc> do you think the two kana alphabets will eventually merge?
20:48:53 <kmc> it seems like the kind of complexity that is locally reducible
20:49:19 <monotone> I dunno if the all-caps thing is really emphasis or not, actually. Certainly it's not unheard of to spell things entirely in katakana, either, though that gives people flashbacks to half-width kana on old terminal screens.
20:50:38 <kmc> (rather than, say, ditching Han characters, which in Korea required a royally chartered committe of 15th century conlang nerds and a few centuries of colonial oppression + nationalism)
20:51:00 <monotone> kmc: I'm not sure, really. I don't really see it happening in the foreseeable future, though.
20:51:12 <kmc> well not very much of the future is forseeable
20:51:21 <kmc> it's kind of a joke to think that anyone can forsee anything
20:51:31 <kmc> but I'm on a sort of absurdist nihilist / existentialism kick lately
20:51:40 <kmc> balls deep
20:51:45 <Bike> monotone: so is there a 1:1 mapping between the syllabries, though
20:51:57 <Bike> i thought there was, except for maybe something with archaic syllables
20:52:24 <int-e> I foresee a sunrise about 6 hours from now ...
20:53:03 <monotone> All the kana that were in use in the early 20th century have hiragana and katakana versions.
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20:53:22 <kmc> int-e: I'll tell my Sun Crusher to stand down
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20:57:46 <int-e> kmc: much appreciated
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21:10:51 <impomatic> Who actually called John McCarthy the father of AI?
21:17:43 <Bike> i looked it up and found "Lisp paved way for iPhone 4s' Siri voice recognition software" so i'm laffin
21:18:52 <Bike> anyway i don't see anything but a bunch of obituaries, so probably nobody
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21:36:51 <impomatic> Bike: I search on Google books and found a few published in the 1980's which called McCarthy the father of AI. (Also a few which called Turing or Minsky the father of AI)
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21:48:23 <impomatic> I asked about McCarthy on #ai, but they just keep refining are restating my original question :-(
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22:03:03 <impomatic> The earliest example I can find is in a review of "Scientific Temperaments: Three Lives in Contemporary Science" - New Scientist, March 1983
22:04:33 <oerjan> impomatic: sounds like the other people on #ai are ai's
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22:23:42 <oerjan> <nortti> `olist 953 <-- darn
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22:38:54 <boily> darn. I missed a `relcopportunity.
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22:46:52 * oerjan wonders if "cheryllium" is on this channel.
22:47:12 <oerjan> under some other nick, in case
22:47:26 <oerjan> (the moderator of /r/esolangs)
22:47:52 <Bike> hm, i think i've seen them before
22:49:03 <Bike> yeah, someone with that nick has been in #lisp afore
22:49:36 <oerjan> fizzie: do you recall cheryllium from here before?
22:49:53 <oerjan> hm looks idle. oh right, tokyo.
22:50:28 <oerjan> it looks like that subreddit has just reactivated a little.
22:50:43 <oerjan> (i made a comment on one of the posts)
22:50:45 <boily> there's an /r/esolangs?
22:50:55 <oerjan> (the one Deewiant linked)
22:51:09 <oerjan> boily: well sure, there's a subreddit for _everything_ duh
22:51:34 <boily> my mind knows there's a subreddit for everything, but my heart disagrees.
22:52:09 <Jafet> There's probably a subreddit for that.
22:52:54 <boily> how do you mapole somebody in a meta fashion? what's the adverb for “meta”?
22:53:04 <oerjan> http://www.reddit.com/r/subreddit/
22:54:07 <oerjan> boily: i think technically meta may _be_ an adverb, in the original greek.
22:54:20 <oerjan> or maybe it's a preposition, not quite sure
22:54:21 <int-e> there is one one everything ... http://www.reddit.com/r/everything/ but none on anything?
22:56:06 * boily metaly mapoles Jafet. “May you suffer from pseudogrammatical hardwood!”
22:56:14 <oerjan> int-e: that has the right tagline, at least
22:57:09 <oerjan> ok wiktionary says it's both
22:57:51 <oerjan> i vaguely recall that in ancient indoeuropean, the border between adverb and preposition wasn't very fixed.
22:59:06 <oerjan> of course even modern languages sometimes turn other word classes into preposition. e.g. french "chez" and norwegian "hos" which both come from the word for house iirc, and coincidentally also mean the same thing.
23:00:32 <boily> «chez» comes from “house”?
23:01:14 <boily> «Fait chiese, chese (« maison ») en ancien français, altéré en chez en raison de son emploi proclitique, du latin casa (« maison »).
23:01:36 <boily> fr:maison, so oerjan was right.
23:03:07 <oerjan> hm although they both are from original k- somthing, wiktionary does _not_ claim fr:chez/la:casa to be cognate with no:hus/hos/en:house
23:05:04 <boily> en:house ← “from Proto-Germanic *husan... of unknown origin”.
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23:05:47 <oerjan> wiktionary says "possibly from Proto-Indo-European *(s)keus-, from *(s)keu- 'to hide'"
23:06:17 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:06:36 <oerjan> (the germanic h- <-> indoeuropean k- correspondence is pretty regular.)
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23:07:50 <oerjan> i guess that's dubious enough that casa and house _might_ be cognates, although there's probably a reason they don't assume so outright...
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23:09:01 <fizzie> oerjan: Kyoto, not Tokyo.
23:09:50 <oerjan> hm i guess i was also here 5 years ago. how time flies.
23:10:02 <tswett> "Casa" and "house" look like cognates if you ask me.
23:10:04 <fizzie> The name rings a bell but I could be imagining it. Have to leave now, anyway. ->
23:10:05 <tswett> But you didn't ask me.
23:10:07 <tswett> So don't listen to me.
23:10:32 <pikhq> "Cheryllium"? Yeah, it does seem oddly familiar.
23:10:35 <oerjan> tswett: yes they do, so why don't the linguists think so...
23:11:00 <pikhq> I would presume that linguists are more careful than that. :)
23:11:02 <kmc> "avocado" and "guacamole" are cognates
23:11:15 <pikhq> fizzie: Otanoshimi ni.
23:11:16 <kmc> from nah:āhuacatl
23:11:22 <tswett> So the etymology things say...
23:12:19 <tswett> House comes from Proto-Germanic *husan "of unknown origin"; casa "possibly" comes from PIE *kat- meaning "link, weave".
23:12:33 <tswett> So the reason the linguists don't think so is that they know better.
23:13:27 <tswett> For a while I've wanted to come up with some sort of "notation" for writing words in terms of how they came out of PIE.
23:13:32 <oerjan> tswett: well assuming they're sure that casa used to have a t.
23:13:53 <tswett> "t" could have turned into "s", no?
23:14:15 <tswett> Heck, certain "k"s turned into "s"s... somewhere down the road from Latin.
23:15:12 <boily> meh. google translate doesn't support nahuatl. there's Mongol and Néerlandais, but no nahuatl.
23:16:54 <oerjan> tswett: there presumably is a way it could have happened.
23:17:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BF Joust strategies]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39705&oldid=37929 * Oj742 * (+1886) /* 2013: Gave smartlock a description*/
23:17:45 <oerjan> maybe if casa is a passive participle
23:19:13 <oerjan> why do i keep delaying eating ->
23:21:54 <tswett> Man, those Proto-Indo-Europeans. What kind of word is "dhǵhemon"?
23:22:45 <boily> it's like a fricative-clustered lemon.
23:22:51 <HackEgo> 1097) <Koen_> nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means
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23:34:17 <oerjan> that quote was so good i considered addquoting it before i realized it already was
23:34:32 <HackEgo> 589) <Phantom_Hoover> I'd insult you behind your back, but I don't care which side of your back I insult you on.
23:37:58 <oerjan> > head $ runStateT (many $ StateT (reads :: ReadS Int)) "1 2 3 four" -- exhibit
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