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00:27:56 * boily is a little bit overwhelmed by all those minecraft mods. just a little bit. in fact, I'm completely terrified.
00:28:53 * olsner just finished baking in the middle of the night
00:29:22 <boily> midnight baking. that's one activity I never tried yet.
00:29:32 <boily> (midnight coffee and other fluids, tho...)
00:29:32 <olsner> the book said "about 2h", but I think it took more like 5
00:29:44 <boily> what were you cooking?
00:30:00 <olsner> granted, the last hour and half was more watching a movie waiting for things to cool down
00:30:23 <olsner> and at least 1h of dough raising time
00:31:02 <boily> sounds like something bready.
00:32:13 <olsner> basically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_roll but I did them different shapes and only half the batch with cinnamon
00:32:40 <olsner> the other half with almond paste
00:35:15 <olsner> (something ostensibly like http://lillafavoriten.com/wp-content/uploads/bild-32.jpg, but not even nearly as pretty)
00:38:23 <boily> weird. very weird. that may be the first picture I ever saw that progressively loaded to the left.
00:39:04 <boily> olsner: something about Fettisdag, and that special royal pastry.
00:40:10 <olsner> it's probably loading progressively from the top, but also includes jfif tags saying it's rotated
00:40:30 <olsner> that can also give you progressive loading from the bottom
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00:41:33 <olsner> boily: nah, just ordinary swedish fika ... my turn to bake for tomorrow
00:43:19 <olsner> fettisdagen is before lent, whenever that is
00:44:16 <olsner> eh, anyway, good night
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01:10:00 <kmc> @tell boily needs more chicken
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01:33:51 <Sgeo> What's with .json extensions? They say nothing about the meaning of the thing, just the format?
01:35:01 <kmc> isn't that true in some sense for most file extensions
01:37:05 <kmc> what about it
01:37:28 <Sgeo> I know I've seen .xml, I may have been hallucinating .json
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01:37:37 <scp> <info about content>.<info about format>
01:37:37 <kmc> i have seen .json
01:37:51 <kmc> XML files may or may not describe their own meaning internally
01:43:05 <kmc> in C++ a method's local variables can have automatic or static storage, but I wonder if there are other langugaes where you can also do object storage
01:43:17 <kmc> i.e. the variable implicitly becomes a bit of member data, which is only visible within that method
01:43:33 <kmc> this isn't really possible in C++, where you need to know an object's layout without seeing the implementations of all its methods
01:44:17 <kmc> it would seem fairly useful, though
01:44:54 <Bike> possibly good for concurrency
01:45:12 <scp> What makes this different than member variables of the object?
01:45:19 <scp> other than scoping
01:45:26 <Bike> the implicitness
01:45:45 <Bike> the idea is you have a method that has some local variables, and they're made into fields of the object rather than locals of the function
01:46:35 <scp> So it's a purely syntactic distinction
01:47:39 <kmc> scp: scoping is the whole point
01:47:48 <kmc> what makes a static local different from a file-level static or a global?
01:48:06 <kmc> (the answer is time of initialization, but i'm ignoring that for the moment)
01:48:38 <kmc> (these would be initialized on first call, like static locals, because you can't name them in the constructor or initializer list)
01:48:42 <scp> well that varies by language too. But yes, the fundamental difference is that two functions can have different 'static int foo's
01:48:47 <kmc> (but I don't remember if that's guaranteed threadsafe)
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01:53:03 <kmc> ISTR g++ has a global lock for all non-POD local static initializers, which is not great
01:53:16 <kmc> also I am very bad at pinball, even when sober
01:53:59 <scp> kmc: That is what the generated code suggests. Or what it did last time I looked at this, maybe a year ago.
01:54:03 <Bike> is being good at pinball even possible
01:54:17 <kmc> Bike: the machines showed much higher high scores than I could attain, but maybe they were hacked.
01:54:32 <kmc> I did get a top 10 score on Asteroids and Tempest, though, which I found weird
01:54:35 <kmc> maybe they reset them frequently
01:54:45 <Bike> asteroids like, spaceship, shooting?
01:54:48 <kmc> I know I've said this before but original vector Asteroids is amazingly beautiful
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01:56:23 <kmc> although I noticed the lines are not perfectly smooth because the DAC has only a 10 bit resolution
01:56:33 <kmc> I wonder if you could fix that with a switchable low-pass filter
02:04:30 <mcpherrin> kmc: vector displays are too pretty
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02:27:31 <Sgeo> So, the reason the docs on x3dom.runtime were empty is because they killed x3dom.runtime
02:31:33 <Sgeo> No they didn't
02:31:53 <Bike> rip in one piece
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02:40:14 <Sgeo> Web pages can independently open view-source: urls now?
02:40:20 <Sgeo> And they don't even say view-source: in the URL bar?
02:40:25 <Sgeo> What is this world coming to?
02:41:05 <Bike> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7BnMnr-KSY this should explain
02:41:14 <Bike> What the world is coming to
02:49:08 <Sgeo> :/ the only reason I realized I left this 'CORS EVERYTHING' extension enabled is because something that relied on CORS broke
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02:49:26 <Sgeo> "The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header contains multiple values 'http://threejs.org, *', but only one is allowed. Origin 'http://threejs.org' is therefore not allowed access. "
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04:20:41 <kmc> hello party people
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04:24:46 <oerjan> <Bicyclidine> at the moment, i'm calling a middle ear simulator written in C, from matlab. <-- well you cannot expect labyrinthic code to be bug free hth
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04:25:21 * kmc looks some things up
04:25:22 <kmc> oh, I get it.
04:25:54 <kmc> oerjan: i was kind of hung over today
04:25:59 <Bike> MIDDLE ear, FUCKER
04:26:22 <Bike> btw the problem was just a buffer overflow
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04:26:28 <Bike> is it like normal for those to fuck up malloc data
04:26:44 <kmc> brazilian coworkers and their caipirinhas
04:26:53 <kmc> Bike: if it's a heap allocated buffer, yes
04:27:00 <kmc> malloc metadata is typically stored right next to allocated blocks
04:27:03 <Bike> darn, and here i was thinking i was interesting
04:27:09 <kmc> this is one of the main ways of exploiting heap overflows
04:27:35 <kmc> if the allocator does something like "foo->prev->next = foo->next" and you control those fields, then you have a write-what-where primitive
04:28:01 <kmc> Bike: you should play http://io.smashthestack.org/
04:28:09 <kmc> this is clearly highly relevant to your work in computational biology
04:29:35 <oerjan> Bike: i guess my pun should have been more anvilicious :(
04:30:52 <kmc> mostly i just felt shitty due to only sleeping 4 or 5 hours last night
04:30:54 <Bike> that would probably have made it more clear
04:30:57 <kmc> and i have no fucking idea why that was
04:31:03 <kmc> alcohol may have been a factor
04:33:18 <kmc> fungot: what is your favorite alcohol
04:33:18 <fungot> kmc: 2. compile the externally-called files. ( the resulting combination. ( `next from' is likely to get two versions of some other intercal compilers; types are calculated at compile time, at least to the c temporary files to object files and include files, and this is a more portable way to pop the top of the resulting value being discarded.
04:47:17 <Sgeo> I want a browser that's not afraid to break compatibility with the web
04:47:39 <Sgeo> Something that webmasters can strive to meet compatibility with, but is more secure for users of that browser
04:47:53 <Sgeo> No cross-domain cookied GETs and POSTs
04:48:15 <Sgeo> Hmm, that could make the site less secure for other browsers, if those assumptions are relied upon
05:02:11 <Sgeo> var split = true;
05:02:22 <Sgeo> https://github.com/schteppe/cannon.js/blob/master/examples/threejs_fps.html#L185
05:03:22 <kmc> i want a god that stays dead, not plays dead
05:03:31 <kmc> Sgeo: we have various ideas about this kind of thing
05:03:34 <kmc> mostly for perf not security
05:03:47 <kmc> e.g. "asm.css" where you opt in to a faster layout algorithm that disables certain corner cases
05:04:14 <kmc> and new APIs like getBoundingClientRectAsync()
05:04:57 <Sgeo> That reminds me, is NodeJS likely to start using generators when they're available?
05:05:04 <Sgeo> And make them well-integrated in the stdlib?
05:05:09 <Sgeo> That would make me actually look at it
05:06:10 <kmc> Sgeo: did you see http://jsfiddle.net/B85pH/2/
05:07:04 <Sgeo> That... can't be part of the JS standard?
05:07:09 <kmc> I believe it is, now
05:07:25 <kmc> it would be pretty bad if your implementation had to account for the possibility that *any* function call could change the caller's scope
05:07:32 <kmc> so wrt this particular power, `eval` is special syntax
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05:08:30 <Sgeo> huh, thought it was a security thing. Make it blatanly obvious when eval is being used
05:08:41 <kmc> that's a nice side benefit I guess
05:09:24 <Sgeo> Do setInterval and family also have this power, or just eval?
05:09:50 <elliott> um, imagine what it would be like if setInterval *did*
05:10:03 <kmc> http://media.bestofmicro.com/silent-pc-passive-cooling,8-C-367068-22.jpg
05:10:36 <Sgeo> Was going to try it, then realized that.... wait, hmm, maybe it could... no... can't pass both a string and closure in, can I?
05:11:33 <Bike> this is why eval with explicit environments is the superior eval
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05:12:03 <elliott> Sgeo: I dearly hope not even JS has a way to say "change the variable x in my scope in some random amount of time not less than some constant".
05:12:47 <Sgeo> I wonder if Rebol has...
05:13:02 <Bike> matlab does, probably
05:13:38 <Bike> today i found out there's an undocumentedmatlab dot com, disproving the existence of god
05:14:55 <Sgeo> Doesn't really count: var foo = [0];
05:14:55 <Sgeo> setTimeout(function(){foo[0] = 1;}, 5);
05:14:55 <Sgeo> setTimeout(function(){show(foo[0]);}, 10);
05:15:56 <Sgeo> Now, give me yield...
05:16:09 <Bike> wait, can't you just do it with los clojures
05:16:58 <Sgeo> I just tried it by assigning to foo directly instead of modifying array if that's what you mean. Worked.
05:19:30 <Bike> oh yeah there's that java 'randomly change all ints in the vm at random intervals' thing too
05:19:57 <fowl> nondeterminism ftw
05:20:47 <Sgeo> true become: false
05:21:03 <coppro> elliott: that sounds like a good feature for intercal
05:21:17 <Bike> it's for security testing, ovviously
05:21:41 <Sgeo> true become: false. makes things go blank on Pharo 3.0. false become: true causes things to freeze
05:21:46 <Bike> Hardened Intercal
05:21:51 <elliott> I guess the problem here is just "race conditions exist".
05:22:12 <Sgeo> It would suck if messing around with this actually did something screwy outside the Smalltalk VM
05:24:54 <Bike> i bet everything will go fine if you switch true and false both at once
05:25:13 <Bike> why would they have different consequences then
05:25:40 <Bike> "i was just talking about races, bike" yeah well you wouldn't help me think of a good name
05:26:22 <Sgeo> elliott: it does, although I didn't think it did
05:26:42 <Bike> elliott confirmed for jerk with dumb face
05:29:10 <Bike> https://24.media.tumblr.com/f7ad90b05a4a5ff18783b09ed2de9d45/tumblr_n6kcs32i921rk8yano1_500.png
05:31:31 <Sgeo> That looks like a BYOND game.. graphics for the dialogue are better though
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09:03:06 <oerjan> eek girl genius site redesign
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10:20:25 <int-e> pong. (I saw earlier that lambdabot joined #nicta-course, so it didn't seem urgent to reply) ... for how long is this course taking place? I can add the channel to lambdabot's configuration so it will rejoin by itself when restarted.
10:20:38 <int-e> missing privmsg. whatever.
10:22:40 <ais523> no, that was a privmsg
10:22:45 <ais523> just a channel privmsg
10:24:38 <coppro> impomatic: you should read more irc spec
10:25:58 <int-e> ais523: you are correct as usual, but you probably know what I intended to say.
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10:26:34 <ais523> ordinary messages sent to channels are privmsgs, technically speaking
10:26:41 <ais523> int-e's notice is not a privmsg, but it's one of the few things that isn't
10:26:46 * ais523 notes that this is a privmsg too
10:27:06 <int-e> the IRC spec won't save you this time, read the CTCP one
10:27:23 <coppro> int-e: yes it will, PRIVMSG and NOTICE are defined in the IRC spec
10:27:27 <boily> test. test. un deux un deux check.
10:27:56 <int-e> coppro: but then you will never see any emotes
10:28:15 <coppro> a message to a service
10:28:17 <int-e> just unmotivated \001 thingies
10:28:34 <ais523> anyway, according to the spec, bots are supposed to talk only in notices
10:28:50 <ais523> but that's generally ignored because mIRC's interpretation of the spec tends to outweigh the actual spec
10:28:57 <ais523> at least in terms of users getting annoyed at you
10:29:13 <ais523> (mIRC treats all notices as pingworthy by default, for whatever reason)
10:29:28 <ais523> perhaps the IRC commands should just have had better names
10:29:50 <int-e> (why would anybody POP UP a message box for a message that by specification is deemed less important than a privmsg?)
10:30:00 <int-e> now if NOTICE were named REPLY ...
10:30:10 <int-e> (following ais523' thought)
10:30:52 <coppro> ais523: yeah, the mIRC thing pisses me off
10:30:56 <int-e> I wanted a privmsg targeted at a particular nickname, not a whole channel.
10:30:57 <coppro> especially with regards to color codes
10:31:23 <coppro> I wish a server operator had had the spine to say "no, fuck your stupid spec, I'm filtering out your color codes until you fix them"
10:31:31 <lambdabot> kmc said 9h 21m 30s ago: needs more chicken
10:31:43 <int-e> coppro: /set hide_colors on keeps me calm and happy
10:31:50 <ais523> int-e: that was my solution too
10:32:03 <ais523> although the way you do that's different in Konversation
10:32:11 <ais523> coppro: actually, the best response
10:32:20 <ais523> where whenever anyone uses a mIRC color code
10:32:23 <ais523> it replies with a notice
10:32:28 <boily> @tell kmc I couldn't chicken yesterday, I was minecraftedly disturbed.
10:32:52 <coppro> int-e: that doesn't solve the problem
10:33:10 <coppro> the problem is that mIRC has a fundamentally broken spec, and everyone else follows along because mIRC has an insane and stupid amount of momentum
10:34:03 <coppro> regardless of any individual user's preference to colors, the implementation is flawed, and implementations should insist on one that works (like the one in the CTCP spec)
10:34:29 <int-e> coppro: where did I write that it solved the problem? "calm and happy", ignorance is bliss. :P
10:34:52 <coppro> it also doesn't solve the other big problem, which is that people use mIRC
10:36:27 <int-e> Sorry, I just can't seem to get worked up on *this* minor problem (unlike many others).
10:38:50 <coppro> int-e: IRC is an extremely heterogenous spec. It is frustrating that there is no standard.
10:39:05 <coppro> There is the RFC, which has bad design but that no one has actually stepped up and shot
10:39:41 <coppro> it has an increasing variety of server-specific controls, as the proliferation of IRCds get their own modes (sometimes really bizarre ones) and services become more integrated with them
10:40:05 <coppro> the increasing trend towards centrally adminsitered networks also leads to more of this
10:40:27 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: They are ambiguous
10:40:40 <coppro> There are string/colour combinations which cannot be expressed
10:44:44 <boily> Ceci n'est pas un code de couleur
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10:55:42 <Jafet> xmpp would probably be much better but irc has an insane and stupid amount of momentum
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11:06:18 <coppro> xmpp is a basis for a protocol I thought, rather than an actual protocol?
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14:02:16 <FireFly> coppro: re. colour codes/unrepresentable strings, do you have any example?
14:03:19 <FireFly> AFAIK ^C04 is legal for switching to red, and can't be confused with anything else
14:03:54 <FireFly> The single-digit variants are problematic though
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14:44:16 <FreeFull> FireFly: What if you want ,10 in red?
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15:03:52 <coppro> FireFly: ^C is CTCP, the %C spec is mirc
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15:11:12 <myname> http://dcoj.wmh3.com/cscos/h/ this is going to be the next big thing!
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15:35:02 <kmc> using the address of a static object to identify a resource is pretty handy
15:35:16 <kmc> because then the linker takes care of assigning unique IDs, even if you have dynamically loaded plugins and what-not
15:45:20 <kmc> doing dlopen()-style plugins in Rust is really easy
15:45:27 <kmc> there's no particular reason it wouldn't be, but still, I was pleased
15:45:33 <kmc> there's no typechecking, though :/
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17:42:14 <FireFly> FreeFull: hm oh, good point
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18:02:32 <coppro> FireFly: ^A is used to introduce a CTCP command. But CTCP specifies other control codes, like ^C for colours and a few other formatting characters
18:06:30 <coppro> they just aren't widely implemented because mIRC
18:06:57 <coppro> and that's basically because Khaled went "here's how I do it" and presented a poorly formatted spec, and then resisted all efforts to fix it to something sane or get him to use the spec everyone else was using
18:07:05 <coppro> no other irc client dev is as stubborn, so he won
18:09:41 <Bicyclidine> esoteric computation medium: pulleys http://vimeo.com/93042377
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18:26:20 <shachaf> I think we've already had that one.
18:26:29 <shachaf> Not that HackEgo was up back then.
18:27:48 <oerjan> Gregor: quick, you can make Bicyclidine be wrong if you hurry!
18:28:52 <oerjan> shachaf: hey it might work.
18:39:09 <Melvar> < int-e> coppro: /set hide_colors on keeps me calm and happy – Aww, but then you can’t see when idris-bot is showing the unit value vs. the unit type.
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18:45:51 <idris-bot> When elaborating an application of function Control.Category..:
18:45:51 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate name: Prelude.Basics.., Control.Category..
18:46:39 <oerjan> ( with Basics ((.).(.))
18:46:39 <idris-bot> (input):0:0:Incomplete term (.) . (.)
18:53:05 <Melvar> ( the (HVect [Type, (Type, Type), (Type, ()), ((), Type), ((),())]) [((),()),((),()),((),()),((),()),((),())]
18:53:05 <idris-bot> [((), ()), ((), ()), ((), ()), ((), ()), ((), ())] : HVect [Type, (Type, Type), (Type, ()), ((), Type), ((), ())]
18:58:03 <idris-bot> Prelude.Basics.the : (a : Type) -> a -> a
18:58:09 <idris-bot> Manually assign a type to an expression.
18:58:09 <idris-bot> x : a -- the element to get the type
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19:27:18 <kmc> http://pastebin.com/uFF9LsFg spot the backdoor
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20:14:07 <ion> kmc: Please explain.
20:14:50 <Bicyclidine> it has to do with C deals with arrays in function parameters
20:17:20 <kmc> spoiler: http://codepad.org/bDAlhNYy
20:17:57 <kmc> so it uses a (probably) 64-bit key, which is enough to seem secure, but not actually secure
20:18:21 <kmc> it's enough to be secure against casual attackers, even, but not against the NSA
20:18:35 <ion> So where was this code spotted?
20:18:52 <kmc> don't know
20:19:02 <kmc> i got it from someone on IRC who got it from someone on Twitter
20:19:46 <mcpherrin> It was supposedly somebodys own code
20:20:00 <mcpherrin> not a deliberate backdoor, just a dumb error
20:20:09 <Bicyclidine> yeah, they said they accidentally backdoored their own code
20:20:12 <mcpherrin> (presumably: if it was a backdoor you wouldn't tweet about it)
20:20:27 <Bicyclidine> https://twitter.com/aris_ada this individual
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20:58:41 <kmc> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/06/alice_bliss_robo_take_our_drug_or_programming_language_quiz.html
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