< 1402531268 648069 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-251-25.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1402531405 667037 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07TOD14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39800&oldid=39720 5* 03Null 5* (-2) 10 < 1402531744 794194 :Bike!~Glossina@71-214-85-249.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402532047 305048 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1402532435 934332 :Bike!~Glossina@71-214-85-249.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: switchin < 1402533048 743767 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-214-85-249.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402533456 824790 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:887:b458:21cd:2b15:7c20 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402533715 886996 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:887:b458:21cd:2b15:7c20 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1402533749 773006 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-214-85-249.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1402533765 782362 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:887:c8a3:18b7:b7f2:4dc7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402533767 724948 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1402533847 889794 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-51-231.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402534362 291862 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1402534363 44804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1402534365 538454 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd < 1402534484 482687 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402534485 459127 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ping < 1402534485 647530 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong! < 1402534489 355773 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even. < 1402534618 77844 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http and https don't seem to be working < 1402534643 234348 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the protocol itself, or you can't resolve? < 1402534669 720589 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just chrome can't connect < 1402534833 555090 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill chrome, gently power-toggle your router, stare at your modem, and launch firefox. < 1402534859 496822 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1402534876 587889 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1402535076 130366 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, finns are weird → http://i.imgur.com/7gSGv1S.jpg < 1402535111 396377 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo < 1402535163 439149 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YKSI! < 1402535186 571404 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now, where is our resident finn when we need him?) < 1402535303 223644 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie YKSI! YKSI! YKSI! < 1402535303 702061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1402535646 685403 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, I slightly have no control of my router < 1402535655 811234 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know where it is < 1402535705 37722 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you don't have a small EMP device with you? < 1402535739 723775 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1402536157 420023 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Mystery of the Possession of Magnetical Pulsing Machines shall be Resolved in the Next Episode. it is time to understand my mattress. < 1402536166 540050 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: DIVERGENT CHICKEN < 1402536370 203267 :Danielaaac!~canaima@190.199.200.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402536431 926883 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1402536602 460488 :Danielaaac!~canaima@190.199.200.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooola < 1402536620 207468 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1402536620 394647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Danielaaac: are you a bot < 1402536642 412787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can't seriously be one person so interested in this channel over many many months?? < 1402536688 4806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey... < 1402536696 827332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe all these "canaima"s are users of http://canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/ < 1402536706 111120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not one person < 1402536760 183469 :Danielaaac!~canaima@190.199.200.132 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1402536781 938391 :Danielaaac!~canaima@190.199.200.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402536888 430098 :Danielaaac!~canaima@190.199.200.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :español? < 1402536932 160829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome.es < 1402536932 854624 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) < 1402536992 162753 :Danielaaac!~canaima@190.199.200.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :muchaaaas gracias jijijijijij < 1402536998 151577 :Danielaaac!~canaima@190.199.200.132 PART :#esoteric < 1402537031 513429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Danielaaac: ^ < 1402537895 469317 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-51-231.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jijijijijij < 1402538476 732654 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-93-173.play-internet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1402538509 177959 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1402538523 571933 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-93-173.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1402538635 899060 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@71-222-51-231.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1402538755 951507 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-97-59.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402539505 35668 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:887:c8a3:18b7:b7f2:4dc7 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1402539520 151039 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1402539608 867682 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-97-59.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1402539759 529807 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402541139 768506 :tertu!~tertu@184-97-163-186.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402544443 145058 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1402544666 88078 :Ghoul_!uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-auajxiuzinlhelmu QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1402544837 209686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if ecliptic coordinates are fixed yet in Wolfram|Alpha? < 1402547829 767474 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fang.ece.ufl.edu/reject.html this can't be real, can it < 1402547869 373220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's satire < 1402547884 475216 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good < 1402547908 140652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pretty sure) < 1402547916 826935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's satire < 1402547940 543056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://th.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/People/Lucks/reject.pdf < 1402547947 39819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The author mentions computing machines, such as the recent ENIAC. Well, I guess one could connect such machines, but a recent IBM memo stated that a dozen or so such machines will be sufficient for all the computing that we'll ever need in the foreseeable future, so there won't be a whole lot of connecting going on with only a dozen ENIACs! < 1402547952 25310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty obvious < 1402547973 75796 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was mostly thinking nobody would be dumb enough to think you need gotos for an if with multiple statements < 1402547979 973786 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it just got more obvious as i went down < 1402548004 215726 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i've never receieved a letter about a paper, and actual papers can be really fucking bizarre, so who's to know < 1402548369 738415 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the C.A.R. Hoare thing relates to < 1402548493 660769 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoare calculus i assume < 1402548538 540738 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so glad i never actually hard to learn it < 1402548813 596441 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is always good practice to name your behavior with an alias that is the same as the callback module it is implemented in." < 1402548817 856322 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://aosabook.org/en/riak.html < 1402548828 102095 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused. Doesn't that make the server effectively a global variable? < 1402548855 549400 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no < 1402548862 420805 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"registering the process with the same name as the callback module," < 1402548867 159499 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say to always do that < 1402548891 910621 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still don't get how registered gen_server processes are any different from global mutable variables < 1402549032 797210 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this sensible? Can you draw it in diagramatic notation? outtext : () / ($1(iosys), $2(string) |- $3(++)); outtext = [io,s,z] cut true [t] fold s t z [ch,_,k] outbyte io ch k; < 1402549116 115410 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that validating the data sent to the server should occur on the client side. If the client sends incorrect information, the server should terminate." < 1402549139 30208 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's Erlang with crash early and the client itself is more trusted. But still, those are not words I expect to read < 1402549165 256852 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't draw < 1402549202 816175 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crash early crash often < 1402549247 436198 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone once told me about a program that never crash because it did everything it needed to do in the time it took for the watchdog timer to run out, and then it just restarted automatically. < 1402550049 806889 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you add a new symbol to a logic together with a proof such that, assuming the system is consistent, that adding this symbol and the rules to go with it will not admit any new theorems which do not involve this symbol? < 1402550193 442161 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, how can you make this proof to do stuff like a computer program does? < 1402550492 482633 :Ghoul_!uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tuysmedkacrufwxt JOIN :#esoteric < 1402550825 676009 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, what would a counterexample be? you could add a new reduction rule that reduces an expression of original symbols that wasn't reduced originally to something involving the new symbol < 1402550869 201663 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, you can't just ban all rules that do that, because then another rule might take it back to original symbols... except that reduction still wouldn't be in the original < 1402551831 752200 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not quite understand you. < 1402552183 831583 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking more i don't think it's relevant to what you actually meant, souree < 1402552505 454614 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps that is why I do not understand. < 1402552656 533160 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mind's stuck in orgo, i'm thinking of shit like alkoxymercurationdemercuration where you throw some weird bullshit like merc(ii) acetate at a hydrocarbon but just get an ether out < 1402552790 508624 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Gentzen14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39801&oldid=39707 5* 03Zzo38 5* (+140) 10 < 1402552836 12173 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, like, you're adding a reduction scheme that uses a novel intermediate but can still start and end with CHO < 1402553318 779634 :tertu!~tertu@184-97-163-186.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1402554770 392469 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-93-173.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1402555329 944559 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@75-175-104-136.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1402556369 705084 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: Sleeping < 1402557290 608728 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :redaction scheme? < 1402559712 797608 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaah < 1402559726 973746 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The grand final for a programming competition my university has ran is today! < 1402559845 265411 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bad PR < 1402559848 801463 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bad: not found < 1402559849 532518 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote bad PR < 1402559850 87549 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :193) Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. < 1402559857 617517 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote e bad PR < 1402559858 228978 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1402560138 163210 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1402560239 842818 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1402561448 396118 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402561452 141384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1402561591 923910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oeis.org/search?q=1%2C3%2C11%2C42%2C163 < 1402561797 788872 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402561798 25150 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1402561949 309968 :Jafet!~jafet@static.77.207.4.46.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1402561997 481091 :Jafet!~jafet@static.77.207.4.46.clients.your-server.de PART :#esoteric < 1402562060 874936 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1402562198 560511 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402562244 263721 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Th14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39802 5* 03T.J.S.1 5* (+2566) 10Suggested additions for turing-completeness. < 1402562248 72979 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary Metal http://youtu.be/dYBZMRWcEBk < 1402562323 806169 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1402562826 299846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode r� < 1402562826 957400 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] < 1402562875 383778 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1402562890 471286 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helloerjan < 1402562908 820688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :haneb < 1402562929 59021 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know whether Lisp's list comprehensions are turing complete? < 1402562940 921924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know lisp's list comprehensions. < 1402562950 547001 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lisp's list comprehensions"? < 1402562979 410098 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend has suggested they may be turing complete < 1402562980 795013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean python's or haskell's list comprehensions? < 1402562984 661365 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I do not know them at all < 1402562990 748907 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402562990 936446 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1402562998 471898 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, no, specifically Lisp's < 1402563040 665912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they contain some unusual feature my hunch is no. < 1402563064 686046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordinary list comprehensions is a very primitive recursive thing, i think. < 1402563085 969653 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which lisp? let me check cltl < 1402563125 712125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they called? < 1402563170 620873 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am afraid I do not know < 1402563182 162556 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :qlkzy, prod < 1402563183 26644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BET YOUR FRIEND MADE IT UP HTH < 1402563201 891544 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cltl doesn't seem to mention "comprehension" < 1402563251 96995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: did you know that "prod" isn't very googleable hth < 1402563268 182369 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was prodding qlkzy < 1402563274 567328 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is the friend in question < 1402563298 558526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ogles qlkzy suspiciously
< 1402563586 419394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: haskell started out with "monad comprehensions", [...] <-- no, list comprehensions came first, before monads were on the table. then there was an intermediate stage. < 1402563599 733507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e zzo38: haskell started out with "monad comprehensions", [...] <-- no, list comprehensions came first, before monads were on the table. then there was an intermediate stage. < 1402563600 45825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1402563682 678117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Burstall and Darlington's work with NPL influenced many functional programming languages during the 1980s, but not all included list comprehensions. An exception was the influential pure lazy functional programming language Miranda, which was released in 1985. The subsequently developed standard pure lazy functional language Haskell includes many of Miranda's features, including list comprehensions." < 1402563707 211364 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell is monad comprehension < 1402563778 344521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: you know how list comprehensions in haskell are equivalent in sugariness to the do-notation for the list monad? just do that transformation backwards for an arbitrary monad. < 1402563798 736295 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay! < 1402563820 678720 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ e1 | x <- e2, y <- e3 ] = do x <- e2; y <- e3; return e1 < 1402563866 224380 :Ghoul_!uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tuysmedkacrufwxt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1402563908 595458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :enabled in ghc with {-# LANGUAGE MonadComprehensions #-} < 1402564060 842194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also some linq-/sql-like additions for lists, which iirc have been extended to use monadic classes as well < 1402564143 217817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [ x+y | x <- Just 2, y <- Just 3 ] < 1402564144 934521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘[t]’ < 1402564145 121818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘Data.Maybe.Maybe a0’Couldn't match expected ty... < 1402564145 121994 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘Data.Maybe.Maybe a1’ < 1402564145 122086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Relevant bindings include x :: t (bound at :1:9) < 1402564150 869198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah not enabled < 1402564221 814014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_comprehension#Common_Lisp looks relevant < 1402564313 399073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402564550 814777 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07NybbleScrambler14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39803 5* 03Javamannen 5* (+1887) 10This is an idea for a very simple single-instruction (OISC) CPU. < 1402564627 846245 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1402564698 880279 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402565330 222090 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, you kept mentioning cyclic tag systems, and how either two stacks or a single queue is enough for turing-completeness. < 1402565358 438251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah, although it's not quite that simpel < 1402565361 135982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simple < 1402565364 320767 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I've read a book which explains this about complexity theory (in a somewhat more precise way) < 1402565372 482206 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I understand it better now, < 1402565381 107863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can invent a language with all sorts of memory access, but it's no good if it, say, doesn't have loops, or doesn't have a way to read the memory < 1402565382 776439 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :further, it also explained something I didn't understand: < 1402565397 158420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just in my "heuristics for guessing whether a language is probably Turing-complete" < 1402565400 952592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily meanwhile, finns are weird → http://i.imgur.com/7gSGv1S.jpg <-- one super-delicious ice cream hth < 1402565401 375113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1402565411 237825 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells why the Post correspondence problem is undecidable. < 1402565422 546344 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, Fueue is a fun language that is turing-complete with just a queue < 1402565453 616915 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that the Post correspondance problem is just a machine with a single queue, except that it has only one state so the step can only depend on the unqueued elements, and it's nondeterministic, < 1402565466 468950 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could treat Fueue as a complicated cyclic tag system? < 1402565469 676793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'd stop short of saying one queue is usually enough for Turing-completeness, I'd put the Turing-completeness of queue-based languages at "often" < 1402565479 483758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it's queue elements are actually rather over-powered for tc-ness, though < 1402565482 473936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1402565507 240781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they're not precisely symbols in an alphabet < 1402565514 244445 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can simulate anything with a quadratic slowdown. the lack of state is no theoretical problem, though it might practically make it slower. < 1402565543 285941 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and of course, I know it's just "often", not precise statements < 1402565610 859872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two stacks is more at the "usually" point < 1402565627 473021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh to make do with only symbols in an alphabet you might need a program separate from the queue (or do you? i don't think i've seen any proof) < 1402565677 568355 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also told a bit about counter machines (equivalently pushdown automaton with multiple stacks where the stacks can contain only one symbol): < 1402565694 309683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so is your thesis thing released or how does it all work < 1402565698 901335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it about < 1402565715 303029 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand it correctly, but I think a counter machine with three (or more, unlimited) counters can simulate anything in exponential time, < 1402565727 327091 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a counter machine with two counters can simulate anything in double-exponential time, < 1402565754 651565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what do you mean by my "thesis thing"? my thesis is about lots of things < 1402565755 958523 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it said something about one counter being equivalent to a pushdown automaton, but I'm not sure I read that part right. < 1402565763 170376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean your thesis < 1402565768 572254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I have a meeting, I'll be back in a bit < 1402565778 838697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1402565786 867302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will probably go to sleep
< 1402565850 285480 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, so, is like a... push-up? automaton turing complete? < 1402565871 123540 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what's that? < 1402565883 114160 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a push-down automaton but with a queue < 1402565941 256579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i think one counter is no stronger than a push-down automaton, but not strong enough to emulate _every_ pd automaton < 1402565942 197489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a queue, yes, but I don't think that would be called push-up < 1402565976 829803 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's clearly not stronger than a push-down automaton, because it's basically a push-down automaton that can have just one kind of symbol in its stack < 1402565995 850107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1402566059 448942 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for simulating any push-down automaton, I'm not sure I understood that right. I'm not even sure if it was supposed to be about deterministic or non-deterministic counter machine, and deterministic or non-deterministic pushdown automaton. I'll have to re-read, < 1402566065 406569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1402566072 870373 :Quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1402566075 388907 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it isn't clear, I may have to read another book, but more likely I won't care. < 1402566092 629373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other part is slightly subtler. actually not much though - if you ever get a loop that doesn't shrink the counter overall, without passing through 0, you're doomed to never halt < 1402566109 36886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't find these exponential time simulations too useful. In fact, I don't even like the quadratic slowdown simulations. I want quasi-linear. < 1402566113 332825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(loop to the same state) < 1402566238 393340 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1402566270 896529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: i think even emulating a RAM machine with a turing machine has more slowdown than that? < 1402566292 939388 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it has a quadratic slowdown, yes. < 1402566323 106940 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's why I don't like turing machines, and don't like how they (and string substitution machines and similar) has become sort of the most common model people invoke about computability < 1402566329 447508 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer pointer machines and similar < 1402566383 524839 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, for NP-completeness and stuff, people more often refer to SAT and variants, which are equivalent to RAM machines and all sane variants of pointer machines and combinator calculus etc up to juts a quasi-linear factor. < 1402566415 626229 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite < 1402566424 856277 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1402566426 333712 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SAT is equivalent to a _nondeterministic_ ram machine or pointer machine really < 1402566432 893529 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not the same < 1402566466 990108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh brain overuse < 1402566467 808746 :Quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1402566518 516117 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402566519 520042 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1402566566 280085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott maybe all these "canaima"s are users of http://canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/ <-- ooh the mystery starts unraveling < 1402566566 665091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1402566727 959698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The operating system has gained a strong foothold and is one of the most used Linux distributions in Venezuela, largely because of its incorporation in public schools." < 1402566732 563489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :any news on BANCStar by the way?\ < 1402566754 563001 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402566856 563829 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07List of ideas14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39804&oldid=39755 5* 03Javamannen 5* (+23) 10NybbleScrambler < 1402566887 652386 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1402566897 455013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not today < 1402566926 422621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't remember if b_jonas has been paying attention the rest of the week, if not then yes.
< 1402566987 435836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the discussions between zzo38 and mroman. < 1402567080 188196 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the discussions between zzo38 and mroman were about the Monty hall problem and similar < 1402567126 699041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...go further back then < 1402567145 201739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could possibly be confusing mroman with someone else. < 1402567148 327985 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did read that then. < 1402567161 487927 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so no new discuessions since. < 1402567180 104644 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07NybbleScrambler14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39805&oldid=39803 5* 03Javamannen 5* (+2) 10 < 1402567556 339394 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402567743 893626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402567749 717719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: back < 1402567764 364897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tried to tab-complete the "back" as well as the "shachaf"
< 1402567898 886278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hais523 < 1402567924 973781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my thesis is currently about finite-state systems < 1402567949 795102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly it's about changes over time as I try to find an appropriate subset of my research that's internally consistent and doesn't have too many dependencies on things that don't exist < 1402567970 684905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, writing about hardware would be nice, but there aren't any sufficiently good formalisms of delay-insensitive asynchronous hardware yet < 1402567976 715441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt I'll have time before the deadline to make one myself < 1402568079 912368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote e bad < 1402568080 462042 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :566) bad people have feelings too but they're bad so it's okay \ 826) we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] [...] "avoid success at all costs" \ 1169) C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. Although C doe < 1402568122 827755 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote with clients < 1402568123 382409 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :434) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1402568185 384920 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do that again < 1402568194 204462 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote PR < 1402568194 811440 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 10) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 14) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler < 1402568203 675519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you should never give up your evil overlord dreams < 1402568222 280822 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, CaSe InSeNsItIvE. < 1402568228 361561 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hOw RuDe. < 1402568239 797947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` allquotes | grep PR < 1402568240 402905 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :434) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. \ 718) I CAN'T DEAL WITH THE PRESSURE OF EVERYBODY THINKING I'M CONAL \ 826) we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] [...] "avoid succes < 1402568284 606790 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`shuf < 1402568293 105336 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` allquotes | grep PR | shuf < 1402568294 136999 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :718) I CAN'T DEAL WITH THE PRESSURE OF EVERYBODY THINKING I'M CONAL \ 826) we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] [...] "avoid success at all costs" \ 434) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say < 1402568306 61858 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1402568315 75678 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1402568320 911687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` allquotes | grep PR | wc < 1402568325 324904 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ 3 64 362 < 1402568340 517818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1402568342 541966 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that lines/words/characters? < 1402568349 568179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1402568364 346198 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes < 1402568382 329939 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION discovers that, like do, Idris’ comprehensions will happily use whatever (>>=) and return fit.
< 1402568440 153819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :idris, the language with haskelly type classes _and_ overloading madness < 1402568451 273444 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :( run $ the ({ [EXCEPTION String] } Eff (Either String) Integer) $ [ the Integer (x * y) | x <- pure 2, y <- raise "no" ] < 1402568451 559461 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04Left 04"no" : 12Either 12String 12Integer < 1402568533 367683 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to guess it will also use whatever guard fits. < 1402568615 754696 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1402568641 317773 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!python print range(10) < 1402568644 51911 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9] < 1402568663 151372 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :( the Integer 4 < 1402568663 338522 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :044 : 12Integer < 1402568670 264057 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet, I know idris now < 1402568786 140843 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :( run $ the ({ [EXCEPTION String] } Eff (Either String) Integer) $ [ x * y | x <- pure 2, y <- raise "no" ] < 1402568786 404708 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :04Left 04"no" : 12Either 12String 12Integer < 1402568812 360440 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in that case the one full type suffices. < 1402569237 615033 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :( the < 1402569237 802249 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :09the : (13a : 12Type) -> 13a -> 13a < 1402569268 963636 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BANCStar14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39806&oldid=39783 5* 03B jonas 5* (+1713) 10 < 1402569309 508989 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :( the ((a : Type) -> a -> a) the < 1402569309 734703 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :09the : (13a : 12Type) -> 13a -> 13a < 1402569325 127125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I wrote up as much as I understood from the conversations and the github stuff < 1402569545 463635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh you were the one making the article < 1402569552 989471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs a working memory
< 1402569913 908988 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no need for memory, just use a computer for that < 1402569999 335010 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BANCStar14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39807&oldid=39806 5* 03GreyKnight 5* (+134) 10 < 1402570653 869521 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, linux 3.15 is released. so now we're definitely past version pi. < 1402571304 846377 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1402572086 406595 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azlarwchitmleixn QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1402572874 277182 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1402574090 461156 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1402574151 717696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1402574896 299860 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1402575159 179718 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the prevailing opinion about specifying stuff on other peoples languages in the wiki? < 1402575256 221255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've done that, but in very small doses. < 1402575340 108523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like deciding Itflabtijtslwi's EOF convention) < 1402575421 739824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be pretty sure the language doesn't have a more specific definition or implementation outside the wiki... < 1402575534 302533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and preferably that it's not currently being worked on by its author < 1402575559 869413 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, generally speaking: if you come by with the first implementation you may decide? :D < 1402575566 393336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ER... < 1402575585 180544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :little details, anyway. < 1402576200 780881 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1402576456 99610 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1402576525 164326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if the author is around here, it cannot hurt to ask. < 1402576547 686126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i assume you wouldn't be asking this then, though) < 1402576937 460250 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Mark it at least as your specification < 1402576957 524825 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. say it's a variant of the original author's specification < 1402576980 907787 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Foobar -> call your's Foobar+ or something < 1402577013 987140 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't just change someone else's language < 1402577048 472926 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you write a detailed enough specification you can submit as an ESOSC Draft :P < 1402577054 573386 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+it < 1402577097 875545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree if it's about something which makes the original language unimplementable unless it's specified. < 1402577100 290984 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'd get ESOSC i may dovthat < 1402577116 949928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than an actual extension < 1402577165 113568 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "there are implementations that do X whereas others do Y"? < 1402577165 770019 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1402577196 876303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: you could just make a section about your implementation, describing its choices < 1402577205 535655 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-175-242.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402577221 124933 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1402577436 319622 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: "get ESOSC"? < 1402577521 878305 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stuff that was floating around here just confused me < 1402577560 29696 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1402577571 325 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lii14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39808&oldid=39798 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+824) 10fibonacci < 1402578197 64203 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lii14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39809&oldid=39808 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (-12) 10/* Tape via stacks */ fix < 1402578652 980473 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lii14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39810&oldid=39809 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (-135) 10/* Tape via stacks */ format and removed unnecessary code < 1402579389 243077 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BANCStar14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39811&oldid=39807 5* 03FireFly 5* (+1631) 10Add tables for instruction opcodes, add section about conditionals < 1402579451 869914 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BANCStar14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39812&oldid=39811 5* 03FireFly 5* (-2) 10/* Arithmetic instructions = */ Oops < 1402579656 30964 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: is the statement I wrote about the implementation and old floppy right? I'm not sure I understood the irc discussion correctly < 1402579666 594746 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1402579671 35481 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1402579785 445739 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we'll find BANCStar commands for displaying tiles and sprites and collision detection < 1402579793 710016 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving the viewpoint < 1402579799 200901 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :viewport < 1402579813 858276 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1402580166 489707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1402580312 512927 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1402580807 628898 :password2!~password@197.78.169.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402581129 181656 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lii14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39813&oldid=39810 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+166) 10/* Built-in classes */ toString < 1402581304 760896 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Lii14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39814&oldid=39813 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+793) 10/* Linked list */ a new data structure < 1402581478 54723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Gah headache < 1402582481 485410 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1402582518 106184 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402582523 467232 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1402582657 240433 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu < 1402582675 472541 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know a pair of inverses mod m you also get a second pair of inverses for free < 1402582682 206933 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a neat trick I wasn't aware of until now < 1402583011 547728 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1402583033 451759 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1402583084 759687 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the shipping charges that really get you. < 1402583107 245571 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1402583117 225049 :edwardk_!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1402583387 679689 :edwardk_!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1402583888 815878 :spiette!~spiette@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe66:77e5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402583939 902251 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1402584175 468097 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we know something about (a*s) `mod` (a*b)? < 1402584253 55870 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds = a * (s `mod` b) < 1402584475 776743 :password2!~password@197.78.169.44 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1402584873 300896 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azejuaqwhbbnmbev JOIN :#esoteric < 1402585356 537564 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1402585377 746808 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we know something about the inverse of m in mod phi(m)? < 1402585441 349887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's always 1 < 1402585465 949573 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't beleive that for sure < 1402585506 105740 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1402585510 50088 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is 1 < 1402585519 813920 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because well < 1402585527 731390 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :m mod phi(m) is 1 anyway < 1402585533 934171 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for primes < 1402585564 45596 :password2!~password@197.78.184.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402585604 354944 :password2!~password@197.78.184.86 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1402585662 819294 :password2!~password@197.78.184.86 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402585678 3896 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most m are not relatively prime to phi(m), so have no inverse < 1402585724 4455 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes all even m>2, and all m with a square divisor < 1402586027 596846 :nycs!~nycs@ip-216-46-79-198.dsl.nyc.megapath.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402586305 522094 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1402587873 439196 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :this script here is even wrong < 1402587878 127181 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^(phi(m)) mod m = 1 < 1402587882 480808 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't hold forall m < 1402588073 249753 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which m doesn't it? < 1402588117 699295 :nycs!~nycs@ip-216-46-79-198.dsl.nyc.megapath.net NICK :`^_^v < 1402588147 805422 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler's_theorem right, you can only be sure of this when gcd(a,m)=1 < 1402588160 550695 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, of course < 1402588179 75310 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it holds for all m and all relatively prime a < 1402588526 96512 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1402588846 5920 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.dropbox.com/s/dsmndtrg4fuwmrg/2014-06-12%2017.58.26.jpg not the most useful page in my biology textbook < 1402589166 34873 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :6^(phi(8)) mod 8 is zero for example < 1402589383 152585 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it holds for m where m is prime < 1402589390 283656 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then it's essentially fermat's theorem < 1402589599 323508 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there finite groups that don't have at least one cyclic subgroup? < 1402589650 868141 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there even non-cyclic finite groups < 1402589715 224145 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1402589887 686285 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean that there are finite groups G that have no element g with order |G| < 1402589975 662716 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :every element g produces a subgroup S where |G| = order of g? < 1402589995 508297 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean |S|? < 1402590002 578522 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. yeah < 1402590013 629903 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every finite group has at least one cyclic subgroup < 1402590020 284319 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even one where |S|=1 < 1402590031 602008 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially S={e} is always a cyclic subgroup? < 1402590037 703529 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :only cyclic groups G have elements with ord(g) = |G|. < 1402590083 486180 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :For finite groups G and primes p, if p | |G| then G has at least one element of order p. < 1402590100 422520 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually even p^n | |G| < 1402590103 240154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1402590145 467266 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not. < 1402590147 725482 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1402590174 287600 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sylow's theorem (which you probably have in mind) talks about a subgroup, not an element. < 1402590191 813901 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(his first theorem, that is) < 1402590244 4896 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: hmm. < 1402590261 870988 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I had sylow in mind < 1402590292 935977 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't there's a subgroup of order q imply, that there is an element of order q? < 1402590346 175245 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. that would mean that every group has an element of order < 1402590351 483474 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :|G|, where G is the group < 1402590362 274220 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :since G is a subgroup of itself < 1402590381 39170 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hmm, or is q a prime power? but it's still false) < 1402590421 374712 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :permutation groups are also non-cyclic for n>2 < 1402590421 619554 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest counterexample is the Klein four group. < 1402590542 113014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1402590548 490611 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if g has order n, there's a subgroup of order n < 1402590566 604887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the vice-versa thingie doesn't hold.. hm < 1402590707 819027 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 is a natural number, but not all natural numbers equal 2. < 1402590721 955315 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously :) < 1402590726 308773 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, this thing just happens all the time in math. < 1402590735 487698 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of that < 1402590779 733819 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought that you can only create subgroups by using an element g in G and it will produce a subgroup of order |g| < 1402590840 944240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can have other subgroups than that < 1402590845 252953 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get subgroubs from a number of generators < 1402590845 460217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : but the vice-versa thingie doesn't hold.. hm < 1402590859 308390 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is a subgroup for each maximal prime factor < 1402590860 975910 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single generator gives a subgroup of size its order < 1402590884 307558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if p^n is the highest power of p in the factorisation of |G|, there's a subgroup of order p^n < 1402590944 890926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sylow was mentioned < 1402590997 431229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but uh anyway, a really simple example of a group with a noncyclic subgroup is Z2 x Z2 x Z2 < 1402591007 301105 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :which contains Z2 x Z2 as a subgroup, and that's not cyclic < 1402591875 729834 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every subgroup produced by a single generator is still cyclic? < 1402591919 522703 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition < 1402591927 385645 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyclic = has a single generator < 1402591969 549575 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Z,+) is cyclic, btw) < 1402592051 920014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I confused primitive roots with generators < 1402592066 124006 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought generators always must have the same order as the group < 1402592094 741550 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although primitive roots isn't a term used for general groups < 1402592109 967857 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z2 x Z2 is generated by the set {(1,0),(0,1)} < 1402592178 629522 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd call the elements of that sets the generators, once the set is established in the context. < 1402592254 967408 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :are vector spaces groups? < 1402592265 992260 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :with addition, yes. < 1402592266 724786 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the scalar multiplication at least < 1402592293 141391 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just check the axioms) < 1402592340 443509 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basis of a vector space is also a generator? < 1402592343 111871 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or generators? < 1402592376 763349 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how subgroups with multiple generators are supposed to work < 1402592395 172036 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0/1) and (1/0) will certainly form a sub-group < 1402592425 296812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a basis of a vector space isn't necessarily a generator < 1402592437 762553 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you start with the set of generators, and then close it under the group operations (inverse, and the binary operation) < 1402592473 525421 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :since with a basis you can multiply by any element of the underlying field, whereas with generators you can only add < 1402592517 837621 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1402592524 235477 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. the subgroup of (R,+) generated by {1} is (Z,+). < 1402592556 955978 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Funny things happen. The subgroup of (R,+) generated by {1,sqrt(2)} is isomorphic to (Z,+)^2 < 1402592559 996796 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1402592622 873970 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1,sqrt(2)}? < 1402592631 963289 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set with two elements < 1402592656 395553 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the subgroup? < 1402592668 560175 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :{1,1.41,2,2.41....}? < 1402592674 592704 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ x + y*sqrt(2) | x,y in Z } < 1402592881 282314 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also get 0 (technically this is a group operation; the empty set generates the trivial group), the inverses -1 and -sqrt(2), and any number you can get by adding those things together, which is { x + y*sqrt(2) | x,y in Z }. Fortunately, + is commutative; for non-abelien groups the generated group can be quite hairy. < 1402593652 483099 :lollo64it!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1402593905 742384 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-160-160.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402593952 875764 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1402594115 476112 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-93-173.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1402595611 115756 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1402595804 764742 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402595826 785328 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Lucasieks14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39815&oldid=39453 5* 03Lucasieks 5* (+12) 10 < 1402595836 841913 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Lucasieks14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39816&oldid=39815 5* 03Lucasieks 5* (+1) 10 < 1402596159 660086 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :good edits < 1402596483 704617 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :for which x is the subgroup of (R,+) generated by {1,x} isomorphic to (Z,+) and not (Z,+)^2 < 1402596489 68090 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rationals? < 1402596678 336103 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1402596732 885598 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang it, what do you call two reals whose quotient is rational again < 1402596737 644756 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an adjective for it iirc! < 1402596779 996749 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. commensurable < 1402597017 64427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know whats a fun group < 1402597018 737424 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :R/Q < 1402597279 120838 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is also a Q-vector-space. Which has a basis (assuming the axiom of choice) ... < 1402597289 515209 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind-bending < 1402597356 390481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently R/Q is isomorphic to R < 1402597623 173516 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an example of an element of R/Q < 1402597671 598762 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh: i guess these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_set#Construction_and_proof < 1402597687 69978 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait why is it [0, 1] < 1402597793 321083 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-160-160.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because [0,1] is convenient and isomorphic to R? < 1402597824 208663 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's R/Q? < 1402597839 228764 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-160-160.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotient set < 1402597842 947881 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-160-160.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :group, whatever < 1402598057 27331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl, an element of R/Q is a set of R that's closed by adding rationals, basically < 1402598150 907905 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh, better explanation, for any x in R then {x+q : q \in Q} is an element of R/Q < 1402598201 540787 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1402598228 245507 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vitali set is the opposite, it's one point from each element in R/Q < 1402598501 478757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1402599192 163626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist (955) < 1402599192 722136 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist (955): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1402599393 830895 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`danke shachaf < 1402599394 381586 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: danke: not found < 1402599731 686813 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1402599790 859128 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Javamannen 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:NybbleScrambling.png10]]" < 1402599929 915387 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1402599982 823662 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1402600202 427162 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07NybbleScrambler14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39818&oldid=39805 5* 03Javamannen 5* (+35) 10Added descriptive graphics < 1402600615 613844 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1402601727 899596 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an unrelated note: I'm working on a CoreWar-clone that resembles traditional memory layouts/CISC cpus a little bit closer < 1402601743 823821 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one illegal opcode exception < 1402601756 601683 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will also enable the possibility of writing multi tasked program < 1402601779 195199 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :by purposely execute an illegal opcode and perform the task switch < 1402601805 937428 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also allows to recover from being tricked into executing an illegal opcode < 1402601814 956171 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, as long as your interrupt service routine stays intact < 1402601883 828852 :spiette!~spiette@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe66:77e5 QUIT :Quit: . < 1402602183 629980 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've been thinking about adding hardware multitask support too < 1402602216 221372 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least add a timer < 1402602292 39767 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(programs run actually on different cpus sharing the same memory) < 1402602857 515552 :password2!~password@197.78.184.86 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1402603498 761747 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: sleep < 1402605388 727766 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Gs214]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39819&oldid=38178 5* 03Nooodl 5* (+273) 10/* Commands */ finish documenting opcodes < 1402606242 176296 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402607004 561092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402607372 930552 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1402607436 398367 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1402607450 269357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1402607935 599737 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1402607980 170106 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1402607980 357241 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1402608217 111732 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1402608378 193407 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1402609448 383288 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1402610684 997522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote a program for using for writing .MOD musics. < 1402611475 856176 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1402611847 843531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1402612127 519171 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1402612974 457901 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1402613136 225957 :nooodl!~nooodl@86.173-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1402613314 9501 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coding by SMS text message - Computerphile: http://youtu.be/0jraYGjhyY8 < 1402613319 228009 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want this! < 1402613836 116163 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1402613933 211340 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1402614034 264441 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1402614397 721898 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1402614466 927848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1402614663 695874 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho god the brainfuck survey < 1402614754 812355 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why "ho god"? < 1402614821 388727 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at it and it's reminding me of how messed up the situation is with text mode vs binary mode < 1402614829 577535 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1402614854 361572 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "what should eof return" is a hard question < 1402614899 340724 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no way to signal eof < 1402614921 872768 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be a value between 0 and 255 < 1402614928 451005 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-160-160.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1402614937 217856 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to conflict with one character no matter what < 1402614941 147468 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should specify a 9 bit version of brainfuck < 1402614944 600275 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1402614958 25755 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with -1 for EOF) < 1402615120 448961 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or borrow from the C standard: ", returns the next byte from standard input. at EOF, the behaviour of , is implementation-defined." < 1402615123 357479 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1402615151 871850 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, EOF shall be undefined behaviour! < 1402615160 389217 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1402615282 918869 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`oots (955) < 1402615283 401963 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oots: not found < 1402615290 184868 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist (955) < 1402615290 372402 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist (955): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1402615296 455818 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :srcond time < 1402615299 380716 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but c has a way to get filesize < 1402615301 71596 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*second < 1402615314 264145 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what. I grepped for oots in the logs. < 1402615320 2726 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1402615320 471807 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 13h 51m 59s ago: meanwhile, finns are weird → http://i.imgur.com/7gSGv1S.jpg <-- one super-delicious ice cream hth < 1402615321 947010 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're not supposed to ever read bytes past EOF anyways < 1402615322 219664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD IDEA < 1402615345 151742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: um pipes hth < 1402615354 68056 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a win32 coder < 1402615363 781659 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sockets? < 1402615372 699719 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik pipes are broken in the windows world < 1402615385 607668 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that I've ever used them) < 1402615451 97461 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all the console-batchfile-textfile architecture of windows is subtly broken and you don't want to test the edge cases because they will break < 1402615466 967741 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes stuff like "non ascii filenames" < 1402615561 137828 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gasps
< 1402615569 768776 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is generally due to inheriting the DOS mess < 1402615571 723099 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no you didn't just mention non-ascii filenames! < 1402615617 805037 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are ok for user land interaction < 1402615645 534011 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once it's some datafile that's going to ship with a product, non-ascii filenames = "please break on other OSes" < 1402615695 226024 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the filename appears anywhere in source code, you're begging for the string to be interpreted as latin-1 on one compiler and utf-8 on some other < 1402615696 555220 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good < 1402615729 494184 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry. some utf16 is garanteed to creep in. good lock with endianness! < 1402615752 792004 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter, almost all big endian platforms are dead < 1402615765 195093 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe for the wii U and whatever clunky servers < 1402615819 892635 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day, middle endian will come back! < 1402615907 819006 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically ARM blocked off the stream of new big endian architectures < 1402615974 104432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: I would not call Power dead. < 1402616000 692413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that a lot of new stuff is being done for power servers (google etc.) < 1402617268 53613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving