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00:09:38 <Icepy> Check out my newest language! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pluso
00:10:17 <Icepy> How would you make a looping construct like the one in brainfuck in python?
00:12:07 <Bike> while loop probably
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00:19:44 <zzo38> Can you please be more specific? Are you trying to interpret the loop in brainfuck, or something else?
00:27:00 <Sgeo> "Let me explain rule number three. If the accumulator is 91, then set it to 32. If the accumulator is 33, set it to 65. You have to print the ASCII value instead of the decimal value
00:27:06 <Sgeo> That's actually a 4th rule, isn't it?
00:27:43 <Sgeo> Also: accumulator starts at 65
00:27:47 <Sgeo> Pretty important to mentio
00:28:05 <Sgeo> Oh, I see, those explain bounds
00:28:49 <Sgeo> It's circular, I kind of like that
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01:56:15 <gerard> hi man, i m a beginer fan of esolangs
01:58:25 <gerard> has someone heard about a esoteric language oriented to deal with issues about triality?
02:00:11 <gerard> yes, not triality of octonions exactly, in general
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02:01:59 <gerard> something like a language with built-in "ternarized" operations
02:04:07 <gerard> ok, a language that accept 3 input and produce 3 output in a simmetrical way?
02:05:04 <Bike> Symmetrical? Like a Toffoli gate?
02:10:33 <gerard> very cool,yes, things like that, but
02:11:51 <gerard> if it serves a inspiration look this, http://vixra.org/abs/0911.0034 , in pages 51 there is a ternary square, in tthe 52 a ternary cube
02:19:29 <gerard> ok, maybe this time i have not much success XD
02:20:56 <gerard> i accept that ternary issues are not very popular XD
02:21:40 <Bike> i don't read spanish and vixra is full of crap, is the thing
02:23:32 <gerard> yes the paper is in spanish, and vixra has "no good reputation", but i wanna to show the figures
02:23:57 <gerard> in case that they inspires something....
02:25:06 <shachaf> copumpkin: whoa, you're not even in #-blah
02:25:13 <shachaf> no wonder you didn't see my message
02:27:54 <Bike> wait, is this arithmetic on a 3d analog of quaternions
02:28:09 <Bike> i'm pretty sure that's usually done as just a subgroupwhatever of quaternions
02:28:14 <Bike> and has nothing to do with toffoli gates
02:29:58 <gerard> yes, but i'm in search of thins about 3, in general, but i more things with ternaryproperties in symmetry
02:32:24 <Bike> but they're unrelated. you'd be better off learning lie groups or something.
02:33:20 <gerard> not necesary unrelated, yes and no
02:36:22 <gerard> that specific observation about Toffoli gate and 3-symmetry yes, but....
02:37:35 <gerard> i'm looking for ways to google, in alternatives way about triality
02:38:25 <gerard> or if you know some paper related to the issue, triality mainly
02:39:17 <gerard> or issues in a ternary version, too
02:41:37 <gerard> i look for this, browsed wikipedia, google, arxiv and others
02:51:15 <gerard> well, also i'd like to post about a movement that has a little fame, right know, and if you know it, i wanna know your opinions
02:51:32 <gerard> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag
02:53:13 <gerard> a 50 minute documentary of a social alternative by an 97 year old enginer
02:57:37 <gerard> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uou4DiutW5g
03:02:36 <gerard> ok, i suppose i had some of "answer" this time
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04:05:01 <zzo38> Can we make up a quiz (on Internet Quiz Engine) relating to esoteric programming, the wiki, IRC, and the people on this IRC and what they are doing?
04:20:17 <Quintopia> if by "we" you mean "I", then I'm confident you can.
04:26:40 <zzo38> No, I mean to many people make such things together, including me too.
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05:29:26 <MDude> I'd think stuff about us personally might be better as a separate quiz from stuff that you could find out without hanging out on the IRC.
05:34:35 <zzo38> Maybe, but I mean only the stuff that is actually on the IRC and not stuff more personal than that. Also, stuff on the wiki and about esoteric programming, both in general and specific programming languages.
05:35:03 <zzo38> And even not only that; also thing like IRC bots and stuff used in here too.
05:35:52 <zzo38> Internet Quiz Engine can keep track of up to 78 variables, so that should be more than enough if you want different scores for different things.
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05:57:01 <MDude> Fungot, produce an opinion on this quiz idea.
05:57:24 <MDude> I ask fungot to weigh in on this quiz idea.
05:57:25 <fungot> MDude: so i started to look at the example cgi to specify that all .c and fnord will just do it for any implementation, like the borg. they have much too much homework.
06:26:49 <Sgeo> http://37.media.tumblr.com/62a5b20362709db5949c6add1f2fdfd6/tumblr_n70l5aXm0W1tp1rx8o1_1280.jpg
06:26:57 <Sgeo> Who is the Dr. Wondertainment image?
06:27:09 <Sgeo> Looks almost like King Boomi
06:27:34 <fungot> shachaf: well, yes and no. i've read the grammar... it is probably a o(log(n)) and anonymous closures with ( lambda ( a) ( b ( lambda ( x)
06:28:56 <Sgeo> "So remember, if you, your friends, your family, your pets, or your neighbors have walked into an infant black hole, have been scalded (or vaporized!) by a miniature supernova, have touched anti-matter (or matter if you are composed of the opposite!), or any other space-themed accidents*, do not ask for a refund!"
06:29:02 <Sgeo> "*This includes mosquitoes"
06:38:02 <shachaf> Sgeo: why did you quote that
06:38:02 <shachaf> is it humor value: the absurdity of asking for a refund in a situation like that
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06:41:15 <Sgeo> I may have thought the mosquito bit was also amusing
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08:10:20 <slereah_> I am having some work troubles with semaphores, and I am wondering if I am using even the correct thing
08:10:39 <slereah_> Basically I want a thread to wait until n threads are done to continue, is that the right thing to use
08:13:46 <olsner> a semaphore can be used as a mutex that allows up to n threads to hold the lock, but I don't think you can make a barrier with one
08:15:10 <olsner> or hmm, if you start a semaphore at -n+1, then n threads can release it to get it to 1, then one thread can acquire it
08:15:39 <slereah_> Well that was my first thought
08:15:54 <slereah_> Then I noticed that the semaphore value was unsigned int
08:16:58 <olsner> looks like there is a pthread_barrier
08:25:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BANCStar]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39846 * GreyKnight * (+475) Created page with "== updating LIST == I was trying to update jloughry's LIST program to compile on a modern Unix. I got some distance but the DOS code layered in everywhere is too much of a he..."
08:32:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39847&oldid=39839 * GreyKnight * (+92) categorise
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08:44:02 <slereah_> Aw yes, got the synchronization to work B3
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08:52:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39848&oldid=39847 * GreyKnight * (+236) equivalent but less confusing formulation
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08:57:40 <b_jonas> BANCStar seems a great language to parodize
09:05:43 <slereah_> Barriers seemed pretty great when there was two threads but anything more and it seems to block at random
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09:56:39 <elliott> this is a channel about mysticism
09:56:45 <elliott> those people are just off-topic.
09:56:57 <elliott> unfortunately they've overrun the place and we can't get rid of them.
09:57:29 <slereah_> So are you seeking ultimate power
09:57:37 * slereah_ puts on his SICP wizard clothes
09:58:02 <slereah_> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/cover.jpg
10:04:46 <boily> peacetech0: have you visited the Glorious Wiki? taken a peek at the Shiny PDF?
10:07:56 <slereah_> All that multithreading only got my thing twice as fast
10:08:36 <slereah_> Maybe I should rewrite it a bit cleaner, but rewriting is a scary prospect
10:08:54 <slereah_> Fraught with maybe breaking it
10:11:10 <boily> can't you write another thing while the first thing is still thinging?
10:11:43 <slereah_> But first, let's try multithreading the third and final ressource heavy function
10:12:53 <slereah_> and then I guess tightening the code a bit
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11:05:12 <mroman> I thought this was an channel about esoteric stuff
11:05:41 <mroman> one of those three is real .
11:09:00 <Sgeo> Pigs on a plane?
11:11:21 <b_jonas> mroman: I thought we had something about that in the channel topic, but it seems no
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11:18:23 * oerjan looks at gerard's ternary questions.
11:19:07 <oerjan> we tried to publish a paper about a ternary operation once, but it got rejected for not being interesting enough so we just dropped the attempt.
11:21:22 <oerjan> well that was just before i dropped out of research, so...
11:35:08 <mroman> Sgeo: Could make a nice horror movie
11:39:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39849&oldid=39846 * GreyKnight * (+380) /* updating LIST */
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11:49:42 <Taneb> Anyone know why I might be able to ssh into a server but can't ssh out of it?
11:49:57 <Taneb> "server" (it's my desktop in my bedroom)
11:54:21 <int-e> Ideas: DNS misconfigured, some NAT thingy on the way. Oh and does the target have an ssh server running?
11:55:41 <int-e> oh and this is perhaps the most ridiculous idea of all: no ssh client on the server.
11:56:40 <Taneb> Can confirm it is not the last two
11:56:48 <Taneb> May be part of wider network issues
11:57:41 <Taneb> Or perhaps motherboard issues, the headphones aren't working either
11:58:36 <int-e> if you can ssh in then that should rule out problems on the physical layer
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11:59:45 <Taneb> I can currently ssh in well enough to play Dwarf Fortress from 2 miles away
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12:09:29 <mroman> I'm still guessing firewall :)
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12:22:01 <slereah_> What's the linux thing to look at the time spent in each function?
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13:00:10 <Taneb> Just had my face scanned FOR SCIENCE
13:01:02 <coppro> for actual science? or for fake science?
13:01:18 <Taneb> One of my lecturers does research in computer vision
13:03:14 <Taneb> http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/looks-familiar/304488.article I think
13:18:22 <int-e> with some luck your face will be as famous as the opengl teapot.
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13:37:56 <mroman> Does esoteric science count as fake science?
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13:48:56 <mroman> If you know two pairs of inverses
13:49:10 <mroman> you can reconstruct mod which number they are inverses
13:55:19 <nooodl> not really. 3*15=1 and 5*9=1 holds both mod 22 and mod 44
13:55:57 <nooodl> (i don't know how i ended up giving THAT as an example)
13:57:22 <int-e> also mod 1, 2, 4 or 11
13:57:45 <nooodl> i guess it works mod primes?
13:58:20 <mroman> Ok, not uniquely in every case
13:58:39 <mroman> but I also would have thought at least mod primes
13:59:59 <nooodl> because both 2 and 11 are in that list!
14:00:38 <mroman> If a*b and c*d are inverses
14:00:40 <Taneb> And the rest are all of form 2^n * 11^m
14:00:54 <mroman> the gcd(a*b-1,c*d-1) should gives you the mod part
14:01:51 <mroman> but it's probably more likley that allCommonFactorsOf(a*b-1,c*d-1) work?
14:02:08 <mroman> or factors(gcd(a*b-1,c*d-1))?
14:02:45 <mroman> I think if y = x mod p
14:02:57 <mroman> then y = x mod factors(p)?
14:03:38 <int-e> I guess if you are given 1 < a,b < p with a*b = 1 (mod p) then that is enough to reconstruct p.
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14:26:16 <mroman> a*b = 1 (mod m) kinda means that neither a nor b is a factor of m?
14:26:40 <mroman> or something like that
14:26:59 <Quintopia> although it's a more strict condition than that
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14:35:53 <int-e> Quintopia: (that is, yes, for p prime)
14:36:40 <int-e> mroman: a and b are multipicative inverses of each other, modulo m
14:37:53 <slereah_> Does replacing loops over array indices by loops over pointers improve the performance of code?
14:38:00 <slereah_> Or does the compiler not give a shit
14:38:39 <oerjan> mroman: a*b = 1 (mod m) means that m is a factor of a*b - 1, neither more nor less.
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14:43:38 <Quintopia> slereah_: in C, there is no difference between array index addressing and pointers
14:43:54 <Quintopia> (behind the scenes, it's the same code)
14:44:06 <slereah_> Making the loop for(i=0;i<n;i++)
14:44:23 <slereah_> Or for(ptr=array;ptr<array+n;ptr++)
14:44:51 <Quintopia> it depends on your optimizer i guess
14:44:59 <Quintopia> a good one would make them the same thing
14:45:15 <slereah_> I guess I'm out of optimizing ideas
14:45:25 <Quintopia> in any case, the difference is at most one instruction, so pick whichever makes for the cleanest code
14:52:21 <mroman> slereah_: what does your loop do?
14:52:52 <mroman> is it a 1D or a 2D array?
14:53:52 <slereah_> It sums over another array, does math things to the result, and save it to some array
14:54:01 <mroman> does it contain conditions that are rarely met?
14:54:27 <slereah_> Depends on the size of the neural net
14:54:31 <mroman> if it's large enough you could use openmp and do a sum reduction
14:55:40 <slereah_> Divided among 8 threads, so about 400 per loop
14:56:23 <mroman> Have you checked for false sharing effects?
14:57:10 <mroman> If you distribute stuff to multiple threads but those threads access same memory regions
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14:57:24 <mroman> it won't work really fast.
14:57:49 <mroman> because after each write to memory the CPU will need to do cache writebacks and stuff
14:58:10 <mroman> (if the data is shared)
14:59:55 <mroman> then I'm out of ideas too
15:00:03 <mroman> without seeing the actual code
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15:00:40 <mroman> if you have some conditions if(foo) where foo is only in very rare cases true you could advise gcc with branch prediction stuff
15:01:02 <mroman> (or in only very rare cases false)
15:03:13 <mroman> calculating the sum of an array on a GPU is weird btw ;)
15:07:22 <slereah_> Also the program stops working when I give it too much data D:
15:09:14 <slereah_> Apparently I have a lot of possibly lost memory during the thread creation
15:11:15 <mroman> depending on the structure of your program there's also data speculation or control flow speculation you could do
15:11:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39850&oldid=34413 * GreyKnight * (+243) /* Esoteric Programming quiz */ new section
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15:29:25 <slereah_> At some point the thread creation fails D:
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15:34:15 <Taneb> `pastequotes taneb
15:34:17 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.6358
15:34:24 <slereah_> Insufficient resources to create another thread, apparently
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15:41:26 <mroman> are you spawning too many threads?
15:42:04 <slereah_> As far as I know, I close down all threads after they're done
15:42:19 <slereah_> Could be a memory leak, since I can't check it with valgrind currentlu
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15:43:14 <slereah_> Is there a tool to check for how many pthreads you have in your program
15:43:32 <mroman> unix threads are just processes I thought
15:43:59 <slereah_> Ah, valgrind has a special thing for threads apparently
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16:29:06 <zzo38> Someone made this ten-question quiz of esoteric programming languages: gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/1quiz.run*eSMi0614. The question about when Feather is made is really strange!
16:32:48 <mroman> and why the hell are you seriously posting a gopher link .
16:33:53 <mroman> FF can't even talk gopher
16:34:05 <int-e> 3 Unterminated filename [eSMi0614]
16:34:28 <int-e> I hear that there's a plugin for FF.
16:35:04 <int-e> oh, of course the . is part of the link.
16:36:15 <mroman> reminds me of the xkcd comic
16:36:23 <mroman> how to embed emoticons in paratheses
16:36:36 <mroman> (Hi there :) or (Hi there :))
16:36:49 <mroman> how to embed punctuation in urls
16:37:57 <int-e> 4/10, about what I expected.
16:39:02 <int-e> I don't get this question, "What is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs?"
16:39:18 <FreeFull> I think I only got the obvious ones
16:40:30 <mroman> I don't support gopher
16:40:40 <int-e> get a gopher client
16:40:45 <mroman> Foolish old technology
16:41:15 <Taneb> The family of terrible esolangs is the brainfuck derivatives
16:41:16 <int-e> Taneb: I don't *understand* the question.
16:42:18 <mroman> You've just insulted one of my esolangs
16:42:34 <mroman> (I don't like them either)
16:42:48 <Taneb> Hmm, I do not have a gopher client
16:44:57 <b_jonas> there are other terrible and uninspired esolangs besides brainfuck derivatives
16:45:38 <Taneb> Yeah, like half of mine
16:52:20 <mroman> The quality of an esolang is determined by how much it's isomorphic to brainfuck .
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16:57:05 <FireFly> I thought that was a boolean property
16:58:13 <mroman> but not the way I meant it
16:58:15 <FireFly> Is there anything apart from zzo's site that's accessible only over gopher and interesting?
16:58:37 <mroman> i.e. how easy it is to write a transpiler from/to brainfuck
16:58:50 <mroman> if it's too easy the language is boring
17:02:09 <zzo38> It is correct the . is part of the URL
17:03:23 <mroman> And once I publish my esolang generator
17:03:30 <mroman> the wiki will be flooded with new esolangs :)
17:04:08 <zzo38> Is not difficult to write gopher client; the format is really easy. If you have a compatible version of Windows, you may use Visgopher.
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17:05:02 <mroman> it even spills out an interpreter for it
17:05:16 <zzo38> I got 9/10 on the esolang quiz. Afterward I checked the source file and found that the question about Feather is the one I answered incorrectly (it is unclear what they want).
17:07:50 <FireFly> What was the answer on the not-predominantly-made-of-integers question?
17:08:37 <zzo38> After answering all the questions you can go back and view the source and see what all the correct answers are.
17:09:20 <mroman> It'd be fun if esolangs came at the final exam tomorrow
17:09:41 <mroman> but they just teached conventional languages
17:09:55 <nooodl> brainfuck plus a constant surely??
17:10:08 <nooodl> re: the worst joke in the observable universe up there
17:10:22 <mroman> I expect a computer scientist to be able to write at least a programm that adds two numbers together just by reading the brainfuck spec
17:10:41 <mroman> but I'm pretty sure if any lecturer did that there'd be a real shitstorm coming
17:11:02 <mroman> "you didn't teach this!!!11"
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17:14:22 <FireFly> mroman: what did it teach?
17:14:23 <nooodl> hey adding numbers together is hard!! (if you use ascii.)
17:14:45 <mroman> FireFly: I don't really remember
17:15:16 <mroman> maybe some Algol and Pascal too
17:15:58 <FireFly> well, maybe not the python3, that sounds boring
17:16:14 <mroman> with an excursus into functional programming
17:16:47 <mroman> nothing special of course
17:16:53 <FireFly> we had a course where we learned prolog, haskell and c
17:17:20 <mroman> that's the only interesting part of the whole course
17:17:37 <FireFly> I dunno, lisp sounds fun to me
17:17:55 <mroman> and Smalltalk is more PITA than anything else
17:17:56 <FireFly> fortran, modula2 and algol moreso from a historical perspective
17:20:00 <mroman> that may be fun for someone who doesn't already know a lot of languages
17:20:37 <zzo38> I happen to like Forth
17:20:57 <mroman> I don't get why they didn't teach at least one stack based language
17:21:03 <mroman> but like 4 or 5 imperative ones
17:22:04 <mroman> java bytecode was also on the list
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17:22:31 <mroman> so many I don't even remember :D
17:22:53 <FireFly> Yeah, they could've tried to cover more paradigms
17:23:15 <FireFly> skip pascal and maybe algol, add forth and an array language
17:23:23 <mroman> I guess they'll focus lisp, prolog and python3 tomorrow
17:23:28 <FireFly> or s/forth/another concatenative language/ if you prefer
17:26:18 <FireFly> I disagree with Q5 in the quiz
17:29:14 <mroman> I only prepared for the crypto final exam on thursday
17:29:50 <mroman> and that roughly means I programmed a lot of programs in TI Basic
17:30:11 <mroman> that print everything including the approach on how to get the solution etc.
17:30:28 <mroman> I basically just have to copy the stuff on the calculator display onto paper
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17:31:41 <zzo38> Are you allowed to use programs that have previously been written on that exam? I think what they had in some exams I did is a rule that you are not allowed to access programs which were written before the exam.
17:32:20 <mroman> Did they check timestamps or what?
17:33:29 <mroman> but I don't know @allowed
17:33:35 <mroman> I just assume I am until they say otherwise
17:33:45 <mroman> the lecturer said you can use a calculator
17:33:51 <mroman> you have to write down the solution step by step
17:33:57 <mroman> except for calculating inverses
17:34:14 <mroman> i.e. you can write 3^-1 mod p = .... without having to do the euclidean thing
17:35:29 <zzo38> As far as I know they didn't usually actually check.
17:36:27 <zzo38> They did sometimes tell you to put the cover from the calculator onto the floor so that you cannot read what is written on it, and to reset the memory in the calculator (and suggest you make backups if you have any files you want saved).
17:36:49 <Phantom_Hoover> earlier today i went into a physics exam without a calculator
17:37:41 <mroman> If you can program it you know how it works anyway
17:38:56 <mroman> Seeing as a program is just a step-by-step description
17:39:14 <mroman> You're also allowed to bring the script with you
17:39:20 <mroman> which contains a step-by-step instruction too
17:39:49 <mroman> it'd be like saying "You can bring 14 pages with your own notes"
17:39:54 <zzo38> I know, that if you can program it you know how it works anyways.
17:40:00 <mroman> rather than saying "you may bring the book with you"
17:40:07 <mroman> if I can bring 14 pages I can also bring the book
17:40:17 <mroman> the only difference is I don't have to small print the book onto 14 pages
17:40:27 <zzo38> If you are allowed to bring your own notes, then yes you should definitely also be allowed to program the calculator ahead of time too.
17:41:07 <mroman> heck you can even bring final exams with solutions from last semester
17:41:20 <mroman> hoping they just change some numbers or constants
17:41:42 <zzo38> Then that can be good as examples, at least, even if that isn't all they change.
17:42:20 <mroman> "Prove that this thing here is a carmichael number"
17:42:29 <mroman> the only thing they can change IS the number ;)
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17:43:07 <zzo38> I don't know what a carmichael number is, so I don't know if the method of proof can be changed too
17:43:24 <mroman> a carmichael number is square free
17:43:39 <mroman> and for every prime factor p of n, p-1 divides n-1
17:44:02 <mroman> you tell your calculator to factorize it, check if a factor occurs twice
17:44:12 <mroman> then check forall p if p-1 mod n-1 is 0
17:44:18 <mroman> of course, I have a program for that :)
17:46:06 <mroman> Carmichael numbers are those sneaky numbers where the fermat primality test sucks at
17:46:41 <zzo38> I remember once I had an exam where the rule was you were allowed to bring your own notes, but they have to fit on one side of a index card that you can read without using any special equipment, and it has to be hand-written.
17:47:25 <mroman> sounds like a challenge of who can write the smallest
17:47:45 <nortti> I like the addition "you can read without using any special equipment"
17:48:13 <mroman> also that's unfair to people who can't read small stuff .
17:48:21 <mroman> or write small stuff .
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17:48:44 <nortti> or who whose habdwriting becomes hard to read when small
17:48:45 <mroman> and possibly for people like me who are too lazy to bother even using an index card .
17:49:14 <mroman> I remember showing up to some open book final exams without a book
17:50:07 <mroman> and when I got asked why I replied "Well, if I can't do it without a book I suck and don't deserve to pass anyway"
17:50:48 <mroman> how big is an index card actually?
17:54:00 <mroman> I think for the exam tomorrow I've printed out like 300 A4 pages
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17:55:55 <zzo38> Yes I think it is 7cm x 12cm; I do not quite remember
17:56:38 <FireFly> zzo38: is a pair of glasses "special equipment"?
17:56:44 <mroman> for all the final exams probably around 1k A4 pages
17:56:52 <mroman> (final exams this semester)
17:57:10 <zzo38> I think glasses you normally wear is OK, but not magnifying glass and microscope and camera and stuff like that
17:57:12 <mroman> all for nothing. those poor trees :(
17:58:14 <FireFly> Well, why didn't you print on both sides?
17:58:30 <FireFly> and also scaled down to A5 to fit four pages per sheet
17:58:31 <mroman> I don't know how to do that
17:58:35 <zzo38> Paper can be reused and recycled, and trees can be replanted. I prefer to reuse before to recycle, so sometimes when I want to write on a spare paper I will get some that someone has put in the recycling, or write on the other side (or possibly even the printed side) of something I have previously printed from the computer.
17:58:42 <mroman> And those are 4 pages per page
17:58:53 <mroman> sometimes even more than 4
17:59:41 <mroman> otherwise it would be 5 times as expensive to print out
18:01:09 <FireFly> <mroman> I remember showing up to some open book final exams without a book ← I've done that too, but mostly because I didn't bother to buy the book in the first place
18:01:44 <mroman> usually printing out the slides of the lecturer is enough
18:02:04 <mroman> after the first year you know that buying the book is just expensive as shit and doesn't really help you at the exams anyway
18:02:07 <Taneb> The only open book exam I've done, the book was "Python 2's documentation"
18:02:18 <zzo38> If you have your own copy of a book, is it OK to add your own writing into the book too?
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18:03:54 <mroman> open book here means "bring whatever you want that's not electronics"
18:04:12 <mroman> i.e. you can bring as much as you can carry ;)
18:04:27 <mroman> you could bring your favorite fantasy book and read it during the exam
18:04:33 <mroman> I actually considered that
18:04:45 <mroman> some lecturers have this sucky policy that you can't leave before 90 minutes
18:04:55 <mroman> it's really boring just sitting there for 45 minutes
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18:06:00 <FireFly> All of our exams have some standardised time until you can leave
18:06:33 <FireFly> Because you're also allowed begin writing if you're up to 55 minutes late
18:06:51 <FireFly> but they can't let anyone in to begin writing once somebody has left the room, since they could've gotten answers from the other guy then
18:06:52 <mroman> we don't hav that @lat
18:06:57 <mroman> but you still cant leave early sometimes
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18:07:21 <coppro> you also can't leave in the last 10 minutes, to avoid a flood of students leaving and distracting those who are madly scrambling to get as much down as they can
18:09:38 <Melvar> That last is the rule here as well.
18:10:21 <FireFly> mroman: if you're a bit late to an exam, you don't get to write it at all?
18:21:43 <int-e> consider the disturbance to the other students
18:33:16 <mroman> FireFly: officially, yes
18:33:24 <mroman> you just get less time
18:34:42 <mroman> disturbance is overrated
18:35:36 <mroman> as if the exam setting isn't disturbing too :)
18:37:37 <mroman> FireFly: why would you be late to an exam anyway
18:38:09 <FireFly> commuter rail issues or whatever
18:38:54 <FireFly> I mean, sure, you usually have a bit of margin, but sometimes there are major traffic issues
18:39:09 <mroman> that counts as acts of god
18:39:34 <mroman> and you're pretty fucked if god acts to your misfortune
18:39:59 <mroman> If you're on holidays and your plane crashes
18:40:15 <mroman> it will be cut from your holiday days
18:40:22 <mroman> and from your salary too
18:40:25 <coppro> if you're an atheist, can you still make an acts of god argument?
18:40:37 <mroman> but that's what leo.org listed as "hoeher Gewalt"
18:40:42 <mroman> we just call it "hoehere Gewalt"
18:40:57 <mroman> which word for word translates to higher power I guess
18:45:36 <coppro> elliott: lying might be against the school code of conduct
18:46:10 <elliott> coppro: but "act of god" is a term of art, you can't be blindly reductionist about language.
18:46:22 <int-e> coppro: of course, it's a legal term in some jurisdictions
18:46:35 <coppro> elliott: what if I don't consider it art
18:47:03 <int-e> I like this definition (Scotland): "Circumstances which no human foresight can provide against, and of which human prudence is not bound to recognize the possibility, and which when they do occur, therefore, are calamities that do not involve the obligation of paying for the consequences that may result from them."
18:47:38 <elliott> tbf, I'm sure there are quite some "acts of god" that have a human cause, just an indirect one.
18:50:19 <int-e> it has something to do with the length of a chain of causality, I think
18:51:50 <int-e> if I get stuck on the way to work because the police is blocking streets after a bank robbery that doesn't make the bank robbers agents of god (though they may well think of themselves that way)
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18:52:28 <int-e> but from my perspective there's nothing I could've done to foresee and guard against such circumstances.
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19:03:52 <mroman> int-e: so's when you get snowed in
19:03:59 <mroman> except snowed in doesn't count as act of god
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19:07:40 <mroman> you could have gone by train!
19:08:03 <mroman> @bank robbery HOW MUCH DID YOU STEAL
19:08:22 <int-e> editing distance 2 from "ask"
19:08:51 <int-e> I mean, the bot told you that much: <lambdabot> What should I ask robbery?
19:09:32 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:09:45 <Melvar> ↑ Too bad that’s three.
19:11:35 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:11:49 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:12:10 <mroman> I don't really see why somebody implemented that but ok.
19:12:32 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
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19:13:46 <elliott> ha, @messages-lewd is good
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21:44:49 <Bicyclidine> lesson learned, the busy beaver for 512 chars of C is 'very big'
21:47:06 <nortti> http://qntm.org/files/trollpi/piequals4.png
21:47:25 <Bicyclidine> loader.c is also great but i have no idea how to understand hte actual code
21:48:48 <Bicyclidine> doubt i could after gcc -E in all honesty.
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22:00:13 <Phantom_Hoover> you can tell it was written before wikipedia because he refers you to an actual book for the definition of grassman sequences
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22:13:23 <Phantom_Hoover> loader also did give the code he used to generate loader.c: http://djm.cc/ralph-loader.tar
22:13:25 <Taneb> ...I was written before Wikipedia
22:13:32 <boily> mroman: mrhelloman. why the confidential informant?
22:15:52 <oerjan> my soap joins the flood of brands that the manufacturers insist on changing into something i don't like :(
22:16:15 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:16:54 <boily> are Norwegian brands particularly known to be prone to sudden detrimental changes?
22:17:19 <oerjan> they made a test showing most prefer the new smell, but i _hate_ fruity smell in soaps :(
22:18:16 <oerjan> i suppose windows 8 counts as a non-norwegian example.
22:18:51 <Sgeo> In BitCoin news: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2364000/bitcoin-price-dips-as-backers-fear-mining-monopoly.html
22:19:05 <oerjan> oh i haven't checked bitcoin in a while
22:19:11 <boily> mining monopoly? interesting.
22:19:32 <Sgeo> Yeah, the thing that wasn't supposed to realistically happen happened
22:19:33 <boily> oerjan: I dunno. I like grapefruit-scented soap.
22:20:06 <Sgeo> Why am I looking at Golang?
22:20:18 <Sgeo> It might not have Node.js's callback hell, but it has node.js's error hell
22:21:03 <boily> Sgeo: look at rust! rust is good!
22:21:11 <Sgeo> Rust isn't 1.0 yet
22:21:17 <FireFly> 512 characters excluding witespace is plenty to generate huge number
22:21:53 <Taneb> Is there anyone apart from me for whom the first programming language they learnt was esoteric?
22:22:29 <FireFly> I think mIRC scripting almost counts
22:23:20 <FireFly> Taneb: what was your first language?
22:24:07 <FireFly> So you wrote piet programs without knowing any programming language beforehand?
22:31:59 * impomatic occasionally uses GWBASIC because I'm too lazy to rewrite my old programs...
22:40:04 <oerjan> my first language was BASIC, learned from a book without a computer
22:44:44 <Taneb> FreeFull, without a computer? Amazing!
22:45:50 <Bicyclidine> started with minuteman II control systems, as god intended
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22:49:48 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: loader.c is nice, or rather, its readable version.
22:52:21 <Sgeo> I see a form of callback hell in languages that aren't JS: In Ruby and Scheme... things like passing in a closure to a function that opens a file and closes the file when the closure is done
22:52:58 <int-e> I wonder if I can find a copy of that FLO83 article
22:53:26 <Sgeo> If the node.js community manages to handle the normal callback hell sanely (especially at 0.12), maybe they could also handle this other callback hell?
22:53:59 <Sgeo> Racket is perfectly capable of abusing continuations to do it, but I don't think it's idiomatic
22:54:07 <Bicyclidine> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=322370 no abstract, pah
22:54:41 <int-e> ya, university has access
22:56:13 <FireFly> Sgeo: what changed in 0.12?
22:56:43 <Sgeo> Node.JS will support ES6 -- including generators
22:56:45 <FireFly> I haven't been paying attention to node for a while
22:56:47 <int-e> Bicyclidine: here's an abstract (with some encoding issues): http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/787214/the-expressiveness-of-simple-and-second-order-type-structures
22:57:23 <FireFly> Neat, I hope that includes destructuring assignments and fat-arrow functions
22:57:52 <Bicyclidine> for some reason i am most used to encoding problems in papers from old ieee and acm papers
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22:58:17 <boily> FireFly: fat arrows, as in coffeescript?
22:58:49 <FireFly> They behave similarly, yes
22:59:17 <FireFly> though not exactly the same--ES6's fat-arrow functions can't be used as constructors IIRC
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23:00:55 <Bicyclidine> well, and also archive scans, but that's obvious
23:13:56 <Sgeo> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/16/delta-landing-joke_n_5499323.html
23:16:15 <boily> huh. firefox crashed. must be a sign.
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