00:08:48 -!- Icepy has joined. 00:09:38 Check out my newest language! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pluso 00:10:17 How would you make a looping construct like the one in brainfuck in python? 00:11:18 hello? 00:12:07 while loop probably 00:15:25 -!- Icepy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:19:44 Can you please be more specific? Are you trying to interpret the loop in brainfuck, or something else? 00:21:57 they're gone 00:27:00 "Let me explain rule number three. If the accumulator is 91, then set it to 32. If the accumulator is 33, set it to 65. You have to print the ASCII value instead of the decimal value 00:27:00 " 00:27:06 That's actually a 4th rule, isn't it? 00:27:43 Also: accumulator starts at 65 00:27:47 Pretty important to mentio 00:28:05 Oh, I see, those explain bounds 00:28:49 It's circular, I kind of like that 00:29:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:59 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:01:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:03:01 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:22:59 Goodnight 01:24:28 -!- constant has changed nick to function. 01:49:40 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:51:57 -!- gerard has joined. 01:56:15 hi man, i m a beginer fan of esolangs 01:58:25 has someone heard about a esoteric language oriented to deal with issues about triality? 01:59:28 triality? 02:00:11 yes, not triality of octonions exactly, in general 02:00:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:01:59 something like a language with built-in "ternarized" operations 02:02:18 ok but what 02:04:07 ok, a language that accept 3 input and produce 3 output in a simmetrical way? 02:05:04 Symmetrical? Like a Toffoli gate? 02:10:33 very cool,yes, things like that, but 02:11:51 if it serves a inspiration look this, http://vixra.org/abs/0911.0034 , in pages 51 there is a ternary square, in tthe 52 a ternary cube 02:12:03 vixra.... 02:19:29 ok, maybe this time i have not much success XD 02:20:56 i accept that ternary issues are not very popular XD 02:21:40 i don't read spanish and vixra is full of crap, is the thing 02:23:32 yes the paper is in spanish, and vixra has "no good reputation", but i wanna to show the figures 02:23:57 in case that they inspires something.... 02:25:06 copumpkin: whoa, you're not even in #-blah 02:25:13 no wonder you didn't see my message 02:25:17 got sick of it :) 02:25:30 can't blame you 02:26:54 ¿¿¿??? 02:27:54 wait, is this arithmetic on a 3d analog of quaternions 02:28:09 i'm pretty sure that's usually done as just a subgroupwhatever of quaternions 02:28:14 and has nothing to do with toffoli gates 02:29:58 yes, but i'm in search of thins about 3, in general, but i more things with ternaryproperties in symmetry 02:30:14 thin->things 02:32:24 but they're unrelated. you'd be better off learning lie groups or something. 02:33:20 not necesary unrelated, yes and no 02:36:22 that specific observation about Toffoli gate and 3-symmetry yes, but.... 02:37:35 i'm looking for ways to google, in alternatives way about triality 02:38:25 or if you know some paper related to the issue, triality mainly 02:39:17 or issues in a ternary version, too 02:41:37 i look for this, browsed wikipedia, google, arxiv and others 02:48:12 .....XD 02:51:15 well, also i'd like to post about a movement that has a little fame, right know, and if you know it, i wanna know your opinions 02:51:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag 02:53:13 a 50 minute documentary of a social alternative by an 97 year old enginer 02:57:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uou4DiutW5g 03:01:43 : | ...... 03:02:36 ok, i suppose i had some of "answer" this time 03:02:51 bye 03:04:16 -!- gerard has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:09:02 -!- hanamichi has joined. 03:09:20 -!- hanamichi has quit (Client Quit). 03:37:30 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 03:57:52 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:05:01 Can we make up a quiz (on Internet Quiz Engine) relating to esoteric programming, the wiki, IRC, and the people on this IRC and what they are doing? 04:20:17 if by "we" you mean "I", then I'm confident you can. 04:26:40 No, I mean to many people make such things together, including me too. 04:53:56 -!- lollo64it has joined. 04:54:12 -!- kyhwana has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:01:45 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:01:47 -!- kyhwana has joined. 05:02:07 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:02:17 -!- lollo64it has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:02:42 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:02:52 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:03:17 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:07:11 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:19:27 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:29:26 I'd think stuff about us personally might be better as a separate quiz from stuff that you could find out without hanging out on the IRC. 05:34:35 Maybe, but I mean only the stuff that is actually on the IRC and not stuff more personal than that. Also, stuff on the wiki and about esoteric programming, both in general and specific programming languages. 05:35:03 And even not only that; also thing like IRC bots and stuff used in here too. 05:35:52 Internet Quiz Engine can keep track of up to 78 variables, so that should be more than enough if you want different scores for different things. 05:56:37 -!- FreeFull has quit. 05:57:01 Fungot, produce an opinion on this quiz idea. 05:57:11 Oh right. 05:57:24 I ask fungot to weigh in on this quiz idea. 05:57:25 MDude: so i started to look at the example cgi to specify that all .c and fnord will just do it for any implementation, like the borg. they have much too much homework. 06:26:49 http://37.media.tumblr.com/62a5b20362709db5949c6add1f2fdfd6/tumblr_n70l5aXm0W1tp1rx8o1_1280.jpg 06:26:57 Who is the Dr. Wondertainment image? 06:27:09 Looks almost like King Boomi 06:27:18 *Bumi 06:27:33 fungot: yo 06:27:34 shachaf: well, yes and no. i've read the grammar... it is probably a o(log(n)) and anonymous closures with ( lambda ( a) ( b ( lambda ( x) 06:28:56 "So remember, if you, your friends, your family, your pets, or your neighbors have walked into an infant black hole, have been scalded (or vaporized!) by a miniature supernova, have touched anti-matter (or matter if you are composed of the opposite!), or any other space-themed accidents*, do not ask for a refund!" 06:29:02 "*This includes mosquitoes" 06:38:02 Sgeo: why did you quote that 06:38:02 is it humor value: the absurdity of asking for a refund in a situation like that 06:39:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:39:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:39:41 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest82745. 06:40:41 -!- Guest82745 has changed nick to shikhout. 06:40:45 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 06:40:45 -!- shikhout has joined. 06:40:59 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 06:41:15 I may have thought the mosquito bit was also amusing 06:41:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:43:34 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:46:53 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:49:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:00:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 07:12:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:13:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 07:32:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:37:33 -!- brandonsons has joined. 07:39:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:39:48 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:42:55 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:53:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:56:26 -!- aloril has joined. 08:09:54 -!- slereah_ has joined. 08:09:56 Hello 08:10:20 I am having some work troubles with semaphores, and I am wondering if I am using even the correct thing 08:10:39 Basically I want a thread to wait until n threads are done to continue, is that the right thing to use 08:10:45 like semaphore.h 08:10:53 Can't seem to get it to work 08:13:46 a semaphore can be used as a mutex that allows up to n threads to hold the lock, but I don't think you can make a barrier with one 08:14:00 Dang 08:14:05 What should I use? 08:15:10 or hmm, if you start a semaphore at -n+1, then n threads can release it to get it to 1, then one thread can acquire it 08:15:39 Well that was my first thought 08:15:44 And it didn't work 08:15:54 Then I noticed that the semaphore value was unsigned int 08:16:58 looks like there is a pthread_barrier 08:17:29 To the coral pthread barrier! 08:18:09 (also thx) 08:24:12 Good mooooorning 08:24:29 hey hey 08:25:26 [wiki] [[Talk:BANCStar]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39846 * GreyKnight * (+475) Created page with "== updating LIST == I was trying to update jloughry's LIST program to compile on a modern Unix. I got some distance but the DOS code layered in everywhere is too much of a he..." 08:32:59 [wiki] [[Pluso]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39847&oldid=39839 * GreyKnight * (+92) categorise 08:36:20 -!- peacetech0 has joined. 08:44:02 Aw yes, got the synchronization to work B3 08:46:12 -!- brandonsons has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"). 08:46:36 -!- brandonson has joined. 08:50:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:52:34 [wiki] [[Pluso]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39848&oldid=39847 * GreyKnight * (+236) equivalent but less confusing formulation 08:56:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:57:40 BANCStar seems a great language to parodize 09:05:23 Hm 09:05:43 Barriers seemed pretty great when there was two threads but anything more and it seems to block at random 09:05:47 I don't know whyyy 09:18:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:18:33 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:28:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:30:04 -!- Bike has joined. 09:39:24 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 09:41:43 -!- boily has joined. 09:51:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:55:20 oh 09:55:25 this is a programming channel 09:56:34 no. 09:56:39 this is a channel about mysticism 09:56:45 those people are just off-topic. 09:56:52 ahh 09:56:57 unfortunately they've overrun the place and we can't get rid of them. 09:57:03 sorry for the bother 09:57:14 oh, it's no problem 09:57:29 So are you seeking ultimate power 09:57:37 * slereah_ puts on his SICP wizard clothes 09:58:02 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/cover.jpg 09:58:06 Best cover 10:04:46 peacetech0: have you visited the Glorious Wiki? taken a peek at the Shiny PDF? 10:07:24 haha elliott 10:07:45 Hm 10:07:47 still laughing at that :') 10:07:56 All that multithreading only got my thing twice as fast 10:08:01 I was expecting more gain 10:08:36 Maybe I should rewrite it a bit cleaner, but rewriting is a scary prospect 10:08:54 Fraught with maybe breaking it 10:11:10 can't you write another thing while the first thing is still thinging? 10:11:28 Perhaps! 10:11:43 But first, let's try multithreading the third and final ressource heavy function 10:12:53 and then I guess tightening the code a bit 10:19:19 -!- peacetech0 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:46:49 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:47:32 -!- HackEgo has joined. 10:59:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FEATHERY CHICKEN). 11:05:12 I thought this was an channel about esoteric stuff 11:05:15 like heal stones 11:05:20 or reincarnation 11:05:23 or flying pigs. 11:05:41 one of those three is real . 11:08:16 *a channel 11:09:00 Pigs on a plane? 11:11:21 mroman: I thought we had something about that in the channel topic, but it seems no 11:14:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:18:23 * oerjan looks at gerard's ternary questions. 11:19:07 we tried to publish a paper about a ternary operation once, but it got rejected for not being interesting enough so we just dropped the attempt. 11:20:44 then make it interesting 11:21:22 well that was just before i dropped out of research, so... 11:35:08 Sgeo: Could make a nice horror movie 11:39:33 [wiki] [[Talk:BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39849&oldid=39846 * GreyKnight * (+380) /* updating LIST */ 11:45:05 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:47:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:49:42 Anyone know why I might be able to ssh into a server but can't ssh out of it? 11:49:57 "server" (it's my desktop in my bedroom) 11:54:21 Ideas: DNS misconfigured, some NAT thingy on the way. Oh and does the target have an ssh server running? 11:55:41 oh and this is perhaps the most ridiculous idea of all: no ssh client on the server. 11:56:40 Can confirm it is not the last two 11:56:48 May be part of wider network issues 11:57:41 Or perhaps motherboard issues, the headphones aren't working either 11:57:54 huh 11:58:02 Taneb: iptables 11:58:36 if you can ssh in then that should rule out problems on the physical layer 11:59:06 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:59:45 I can currently ssh in well enough to play Dwarf Fortress from 2 miles away 12:04:50 -!- yorick has joined. 12:09:29 I'm still guessing firewall :) 12:12:04 -!- aloril has joined. 12:22:01 What's the linux thing to look at the time spent in each function? 12:22:04 I forget the name 12:22:10 prof-something? 12:22:21 ah, gprof 12:37:02 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:37:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:52:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:58:50 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:00:10 Just had my face scanned FOR SCIENCE 13:01:02 for actual science? or for fake science? 13:01:10 Actual science 13:01:18 One of my lecturers does research in computer vision 13:03:14 http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/looks-familiar/304488.article I think 13:18:22 with some luck your face will be as famous as the opengl teapot. 13:18:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:35:42 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:37:56 Does esoteric science count as fake science? 13:39:33 yes 13:45:53 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:48:50 hm 13:48:56 If you know two pairs of inverses 13:49:10 you can reconstruct mod which number they are inverses 13:55:19 not really. 3*15=1 and 5*9=1 holds both mod 22 and mod 44 13:55:57 (i don't know how i ended up giving THAT as an example) 13:57:22 also mod 1, 2, 4 or 11 13:57:45 i guess it works mod primes? 13:58:17 unlikely 13:58:20 Ok, not uniquely in every case 13:58:39 but I also would have thought at least mod primes 13:59:52 wait, obviously not 13:59:59 because both 2 and 11 are in that list! 14:00:34 hm 14:00:38 If a*b and c*d are inverses 14:00:40 And the rest are all of form 2^n * 11^m 14:00:54 the gcd(a*b-1,c*d-1) should gives you the mod part 14:01:10 not uniquely though 14:01:51 but it's probably more likley that allCommonFactorsOf(a*b-1,c*d-1) work? 14:02:08 or factors(gcd(a*b-1,c*d-1))? 14:02:45 I think if y = x mod p 14:02:57 then y = x mod factors(p)? 14:03:38 I guess if you are given 1 < a,b < p with a*b = 1 (mod p) then that is enough to reconstruct p. 14:18:42 -!- mihow has joined. 14:20:02 int-e: for p prime? 14:23:36 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:24:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:26:16 a*b = 1 (mod m) kinda means that neither a nor b is a factor of m? 14:26:40 or something like that 14:26:47 yes 14:26:59 although it's a more strict condition than that 14:28:15 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:34:40 hm? 14:35:43 Quintopia: yes 14:35:53 Quintopia: (that is, yes, for p prime) 14:36:40 mroman: a and b are multipicative inverses of each other, modulo m 14:37:53 Does replacing loops over array indices by loops over pointers improve the performance of code? 14:38:00 Or does the compiler not give a shit 14:38:39 mroman: a*b = 1 (mod m) means that m is a factor of a*b - 1, neither more nor less. 14:41:21 -!- aloril has joined. 14:43:38 slereah_: in C, there is no difference between array index addressing and pointers 14:43:51 Yes, but I mean 14:43:54 (behind the scenes, it's the same code) 14:44:06 Making the loop for(i=0;i Or for(ptr=array;ptr ah well 14:44:51 it depends on your optimizer i guess 14:44:59 a good one would make them the same thing 14:45:00 gcc with -O3 14:45:03 Hm 14:45:15 I guess I'm out of optimizing ideas 14:45:20 Short of unrolling loops 14:45:25 in any case, the difference is at most one instruction, so pick whichever makes for the cleanest code 14:45:41 Or using the GPU 14:52:21 slereah_: what does your loop do? 14:52:52 is it a 1D or a 2D array? 14:52:52 Backpropagation stuff 14:53:52 It sums over another array, does math things to the result, and save it to some array 14:54:01 does it contain conditions that are rarely met? 14:54:27 Depends on the size of the neural net 14:54:31 if it's large enough you could use openmp and do a sum reduction 14:54:58 Usually it is ~ 3000 neurons 14:55:40 Divided among 8 threads, so about 400 per loop 14:56:23 Have you checked for false sharing effects? 14:56:46 I do not know what that is 14:57:10 If you distribute stuff to multiple threads but those threads access same memory regions 14:57:13 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:57:24 it won't work really fast. 14:57:25 Nah, it's all independant 14:57:49 because after each write to memory the CPU will need to do cache writebacks and stuff 14:58:10 (if the data is shared) 14:59:52 well... 14:59:55 then I'm out of ideas too 15:00:03 without seeing the actual code 15:00:26 -!- erdic has joined. 15:00:40 if you have some conditions if(foo) where foo is only in very rare cases true you could advise gcc with branch prediction stuff 15:01:02 (or in only very rare cases false) 15:03:13 calculating the sum of an array on a GPU is weird btw ;) 15:06:38 mroman : I dunno 15:06:43 Trying to make shit go faster 15:07:22 Also the program stops working when I give it too much data D: 15:09:14 Apparently I have a lot of possibly lost memory during the thread creation 15:11:15 depending on the structure of your program there's also data speculation or control flow speculation you could do 15:11:38 [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39850&oldid=34413 * GreyKnight * (+243) /* Esoteric Programming quiz */ new section 15:11:59 q/win 15 15:22:28 -!- conehead has joined. 15:29:19 Ah, there's the error 15:29:25 At some point the thread creation fails D: 15:31:41 -!- password2 has joined. 15:34:15 `pastequotes taneb 15:34:17 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.6358 15:34:24 Insufficient resources to create another thread, apparently 15:34:25 Damn 15:41:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:41:26 are you spawning too many threads? 15:42:04 As far as I know, I close down all threads after they're done 15:42:08 But it's hard to check 15:42:19 Could be a memory leak, since I can't check it with valgrind currentlu 15:42:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:42:57 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:43:14 Is there a tool to check for how many pthreads you have in your program 15:43:24 htop? 15:43:32 unix threads are just processes I thought 15:43:59 Ah, valgrind has a special thing for threads apparently 15:44:01 HELGRIND 15:51:18 -!- augur has joined. 15:51:56 -!- slereah_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:54:04 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 16:17:15 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:27:28 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:29:06 Someone made this ten-question quiz of esoteric programming languages: gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/1quiz.run*eSMi0614. The question about when Feather is made is really strange! 16:32:28 is made? 16:32:31 like... future? 16:32:48 and why the hell are you seriously posting a gopher link . 16:33:53 FF can't even talk gopher 16:34:05 3 Unterminated filename [eSMi0614] 16:34:12 lynx can 16:34:28 I hear that there's a plugin for FF. 16:35:04 oh, of course the . is part of the link. 16:36:09 haha 16:36:15 reminds me of the xkcd comic 16:36:23 how to embed emoticons in paratheses 16:36:36 (Hi there :) or (Hi there :)) 16:36:49 how to embed punctuation in urls 16:36:53 (Hi there (: ) 16:37:57 4/10, about what I expected. 16:38:41 I amm really bad 16:38:43 I got 4/10 too 16:39:02 I don't get this question, "What is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs?" 16:39:18 I think I only got the obvious ones 16:40:23 I don't speak gopher 16:40:30 I don't support gopher 16:40:31 :) 16:40:40 get a gopher client 16:40:45 Foolish old technology 16:40:51 it works 16:41:00 int-e, brainfuck 16:41:15 The family of terrible esolangs is the brainfuck derivatives 16:41:16 Taneb: I don't *understand* the question. 16:41:23 Oh. 16:41:26 Bad pun. Thanks. 16:42:09 Taneb: Thanks. 16:42:18 You've just insulted one of my esolangs 16:42:34 (I don't like them either) 16:42:48 Hmm, I do not have a gopher client 16:43:48 I use firefox with overbite 16:44:57 there are other terrible and uninspired esolangs besides brainfuck derivatives 16:45:38 Yeah, like half of mine 16:46:01 Broficiency Quotient -125 16:52:20 The quality of an esolang is determined by how much it's isomorphic to brainfuck . 16:56:52 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:57:05 I thought that was a boolean property 16:57:44 Okay, overbite installed 16:57:54 No :) 16:58:04 Well... 16:58:07 yes 16:58:13 but not the way I meant it 16:58:15 Is there anything apart from zzo's site that's accessible only over gopher and interesting? 16:58:19 how "similar" it is 16:58:37 i.e. how easy it is to write a transpiler from/to brainfuck 16:58:50 if it's too easy the language is boring 17:00:56 Huh 17:02:09 It is correct the . is part of the URL 17:03:00 oops.. 3/10 17:03:23 And once I publish my esolang generator 17:03:30 the wiki will be flooded with new esolangs :) 17:04:08 Is not difficult to write gopher client; the format is really easy. If you have a compatible version of Windows, you may use Visgopher. 17:04:46 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:05:02 it even spills out an interpreter for it 17:05:16 I got 9/10 on the esolang quiz. Afterward I checked the source file and found that the question about Feather is the one I answered incorrectly (it is unclear what they want). 17:07:50 What was the answer on the not-predominantly-made-of-integers question? 17:08:37 After answering all the questions you can go back and view the source and see what all the correct answers are. 17:09:20 It'd be fun if esolangs came at the final exam tomorrow 17:09:41 but they just teached conventional languages 17:09:55 but honestly 17:09:55 brainfuck plus a constant surely?? 17:10:08 re: the worst joke in the observable universe up there 17:10:22 I expect a computer scientist to be able to write at least a programm that adds two numbers together just by reading the brainfuck spec 17:10:41 but I'm pretty sure if any lecturer did that there'd be a real shitstorm coming 17:11:02 "you didn't teach this!!!11" 17:12:30 -!- password2 has joined. 17:14:22 mroman: what did it teach? 17:14:23 hey adding numbers together is hard!! (if you use ascii.) 17:14:45 FireFly: I don't really remember 17:14:46 I think 17:14:47 uhm. 17:14:49 Fortran, Lisp 17:14:55 Smalltalk, Modula-2 17:14:59 Python3 17:15:16 maybe some Algol and Pascal too 17:15:29 ! 17:15:35 Sounds like a fun course 17:15:42 Yeah... not really :) 17:15:51 to me anyway.. 17:15:58 well, maybe not the python3, that sounds boring 17:16:14 with an excursus into functional programming 17:16:22 fortran... 17:16:47 nothing special of course 17:16:53 we had a course where we learned prolog, haskell and c 17:16:58 oh 17:16:59 yeah 17:17:00 Prolog 17:17:04 we had that too 17:17:20 that's the only interesting part of the whole course 17:17:37 I dunno, lisp sounds fun to me 17:17:40 smalltalk too 17:17:48 I already knew Lisp 17:17:55 and Smalltalk is more PITA than anything else 17:17:56 fortran, modula2 and algol moreso from a historical perspective 17:19:16 yes 17:20:00 that may be fun for someone who doesn't already know a lot of languages 17:20:37 I happen to like Forth 17:20:57 I don't get why they didn't teach at least one stack based language 17:21:03 but like 4 or 5 imperative ones 17:22:00 oh 17:22:04 java bytecode was also on the list 17:22:04 -!- lollo64it has joined. 17:22:31 so many I don't even remember :D 17:22:53 Yeah, they could've tried to cover more paradigms 17:23:15 skip pascal and maybe algol, add forth and an array language 17:23:23 I guess they'll focus lisp, prolog and python3 tomorrow 17:23:28 or s/forth/another concatenative language/ if you prefer 17:26:18 I disagree with Q5 in the quiz 17:27:08 I think 17:29:14 I only prepared for the crypto final exam on thursday 17:29:50 and that roughly means I programmed a lot of programs in TI Basic 17:30:11 that print everything including the approach on how to get the solution etc. 17:30:28 I basically just have to copy the stuff on the calculator display onto paper 17:31:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:31:41 Are you allowed to use programs that have previously been written on that exam? I think what they had in some exams I did is a rule that you are not allowed to access programs which were written before the exam. 17:32:20 Did they check timestamps or what? 17:33:29 but I don't know @allowed 17:33:35 I just assume I am until they say otherwise 17:33:45 the lecturer said you can use a calculator 17:33:51 you have to write down the solution step by step 17:33:57 except for calculating inverses 17:34:14 i.e. you can write 3^-1 mod p = .... without having to do the euclidean thing 17:35:29 As far as I know they didn't usually actually check. 17:36:27 They did sometimes tell you to put the cover from the calculator onto the floor so that you cannot read what is written on it, and to reset the memory in the calculator (and suggest you make backups if you have any files you want saved). 17:36:42 oh christ 17:36:49 earlier today i went into a physics exam without a calculator 17:36:54 it was a bad move 17:37:41 If you can program it you know how it works anyway 17:38:56 Seeing as a program is just a step-by-step description 17:39:14 You're also allowed to bring the script with you 17:39:20 which contains a step-by-step instruction too 17:39:22 so... 17:39:49 it'd be like saying "You can bring 14 pages with your own notes" 17:39:54 I know, that if you can program it you know how it works anyways. 17:40:00 rather than saying "you may bring the book with you" 17:40:07 if I can bring 14 pages I can also bring the book 17:40:17 the only difference is I don't have to small print the book onto 14 pages 17:40:27 If you are allowed to bring your own notes, then yes you should definitely also be allowed to program the calculator ahead of time too. 17:41:07 heck you can even bring final exams with solutions from last semester 17:41:20 hoping they just change some numbers or constants 17:41:42 Then that can be good as examples, at least, even if that isn't all they change. 17:42:10 yeah 17:42:11 but 17:42:20 "Prove that this thing here is a carmichael number" 17:42:29 the only thing they can change IS the number ;) 17:43:04 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:43:07 I don't know what a carmichael number is, so I don't know if the method of proof can be changed too 17:43:24 a carmichael number is square free 17:43:39 and for every prime factor p of n, p-1 divides n-1 17:43:42 there you go 17:44:02 you tell your calculator to factorize it, check if a factor occurs twice 17:44:12 then check forall p if p-1 mod n-1 is 0 17:44:18 of course, I have a program for that :) 17:44:49 eh 17:44:51 vice verso 17:44:55 n-1 mod p-1 17:46:06 Carmichael numbers are those sneaky numbers where the fermat primality test sucks at 17:46:41 I remember once I had an exam where the rule was you were allowed to bring your own notes, but they have to fit on one side of a index card that you can read without using any special equipment, and it has to be hand-written. 17:47:25 sounds like a challenge of who can write the smallest 17:47:45 I like the addition "you can read without using any special equipment" 17:48:13 also that's unfair to people who can't read small stuff . 17:48:21 or write small stuff . 17:48:23 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:48:44 or who whose habdwriting becomes hard to read when small 17:48:45 and possibly for people like me who are too lazy to bother even using an index card . 17:49:14 I remember showing up to some open book final exams without a book 17:50:07 and when I got asked why I replied "Well, if I can't do it without a book I suck and don't deserve to pass anyway" 17:50:48 how big is an index card actually? 17:51:19 7cm x 12cm 17:51:21 roughly 17:54:00 I think for the exam tomorrow I've printed out like 300 A4 pages 17:54:05 (one-sided) 17:54:16 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:55:55 Yes I think it is 7cm x 12cm; I do not quite remember 17:56:38 zzo38: is a pair of glasses "special equipment"? 17:56:44 for all the final exams probably around 1k A4 pages 17:56:52 (final exams this semester) 17:57:10 I think glasses you normally wear is OK, but not magnifying glass and microscope and camera and stuff like that 17:57:12 all for nothing. those poor trees :( 17:58:14 Well, why didn't you print on both sides? 17:58:30 and also scaled down to A5 to fit four pages per sheet 17:58:31 I don't know how to do that 17:58:35 Paper can be reused and recycled, and trees can be replanted. I prefer to reuse before to recycle, so sometimes when I want to write on a spare paper I will get some that someone has put in the recycling, or write on the other side (or possibly even the printed side) of something I have previously printed from the computer. 17:58:42 And those are 4 pages per page 17:58:53 sometimes even more than 4 17:58:58 Ah, okay 17:59:41 otherwise it would be 5 times as expensive to print out 18:01:09 I remember showing up to some open book final exams without a book ← I've done that too, but mostly because I didn't bother to buy the book in the first place 18:01:44 usually printing out the slides of the lecturer is enough 18:02:04 after the first year you know that buying the book is just expensive as shit and doesn't really help you at the exams anyway 18:02:07 The only open book exam I've done, the book was "Python 2's documentation" 18:02:18 If you have your own copy of a book, is it OK to add your own writing into the book too? 18:03:39 zzo38: yeah 18:03:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:03:54 open book here means "bring whatever you want that's not electronics" 18:04:12 i.e. you can bring as much as you can carry ;) 18:04:27 you could bring your favorite fantasy book and read it during the exam 18:04:33 I actually considered that 18:04:45 some lecturers have this sucky policy that you can't leave before 90 minutes 18:04:55 it's really boring just sitting there for 45 minutes 18:05:26 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:06:00 All of our exams have some standardised time until you can leave 18:06:08 I think it's one hour 18:06:16 yeah. but why? 18:06:33 Because you're also allowed begin writing if you're up to 55 minutes late 18:06:43 ah 18:06:44 ok 18:06:51 but they can't let anyone in to begin writing once somebody has left the room, since they could've gotten answers from the other guy then 18:06:52 we don't hav that @lat 18:06:52 same here 18:06:57 but you still cant leave early sometimes 18:07:00 *late 18:07:02 -!- vyv has joined. 18:07:21 you also can't leave in the last 10 minutes, to avoid a flood of students leaving and distracting those who are madly scrambling to get as much down as they can 18:09:38 That last is the rule here as well. 18:10:21 mroman: if you're a bit late to an exam, you don't get to write it at all? 18:21:43 consider the disturbance to the other students 18:23:34 That's true 18:33:16 FireFly: officially, yes 18:33:19 unofficially, no 18:33:24 you just get less time 18:33:32 unless you're lucky 18:34:42 disturbance is overrated 18:35:36 as if the exam setting isn't disturbing too :) 18:37:37 FireFly: why would you be late to an exam anyway 18:38:09 commuter rail issues or whatever 18:38:54 I mean, sure, you usually have a bit of margin, but sometimes there are major traffic issues 18:39:09 that counts as acts of god 18:39:10 oversleeping 18:39:14 best reason 18:39:34 and you're pretty fucked if god acts to your misfortune 18:39:59 If you're on holidays and your plane crashes 18:40:15 it will be cut from your holiday days 18:40:22 and from your salary too 18:40:25 if you're an atheist, can you still make an acts of god argument? 18:40:30 I don't know 18:40:37 but that's what leo.org listed as "hoeher Gewalt" 18:40:42 we just call it "hoehere Gewalt" 18:40:57 which word for word translates to higher power I guess 18:45:21 coppro: why not? 18:45:36 elliott: lying might be against the school code of conduct 18:46:10 coppro: but "act of god" is a term of art, you can't be blindly reductionist about language. 18:46:22 coppro: of course, it's a legal term in some jurisdictions 18:46:35 elliott: what if I don't consider it art 18:46:51 * elliott rolleyes 18:47:03 I like this definition (Scotland): "Circumstances which no human foresight can provide against, and of which human prudence is not bound to recognize the possibility, and which when they do occur, therefore, are calamities that do not involve the obligation of paying for the consequences that may result from them." 18:47:38 tbf, I'm sure there are quite some "acts of god" that have a human cause, just an indirect one. 18:49:40 sure. 18:50:19 it has something to do with the length of a chain of causality, I think 18:51:50 if I get stuck on the way to work because the police is blocking streets after a bank robbery that doesn't make the bank robbers agents of god (though they may well think of themselves that way) 18:52:24 -!- myname has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:52:28 but from my perspective there's nothing I could've done to foresee and guard against such circumstances. 18:53:51 yeah. 18:54:02 god is other people. 18:56:48 -!- myname has joined. 19:02:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:03:47 well 19:03:52 int-e: so's when you get snowed in 19:03:59 except snowed in doesn't count as act of god 19:04:40 -!- Bike has joined. 19:07:40 you could have gone by train! 19:07:44 @bank robbery 19:07:45 What should I ask robbery? 19:08:03 @bank robbery HOW MUCH DID YOU STEAL 19:08:04 Consider it noted. 19:08:09 ok...? 19:08:12 wth is bank 19:08:22 editing distance 2 from "ask" 19:08:51 I mean, the bot told you that much: What should I ask robbery? 19:08:57 @messages-lewd 19:08:57 You don't have any messages 19:09:05 @ask mroman 19:09:05 What should I ask mroman? 19:09:31 @massages-lewd 19:09:32 @help bank 19:09:32 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 19:09:32 Unknown command, try @list 19:09:45 ↑ Too bad that’s three. 19:11:34 @delp 19:11:35 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 19:11:40 @messages-told 19:11:41 You don't have any messages 19:11:49 @elph 19:11:49 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 19:12:08 @elf 19:12:10 I don't really see why somebody implemented that but ok. 19:12:10 Maybe you meant: tell pl help bf 19:12:19 @helpmei'monfire 19:12:19 Unknown command, try @list 19:12:31 @ralph 19:12:31 Unknown command, try @list 19:12:32 @helpme I'm on fire 19:12:32 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 19:12:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:13:46 ha, @messages-lewd is good 19:14:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:15:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:16:49 -!- Jafet has left. 19:23:43 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 19:25:57 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:26:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:32:53 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:45:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:45:57 @messages-laut 19:45:58 You don't have any messages 19:46:19 @messages-luut 19:46:19 You don't have any messages 19:46:24 @noochrichte-luut 19:46:24 Unknown command, try @list 19:47:58 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 19:50:55 -!- conehead has joined. 19:55:02 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:59:43 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 20:06:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:07:49 -!- Bike has joined. 20:09:03 -!- myname has joined. 20:24:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:58:52 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:59:38 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:00:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:03:46 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:23:59 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:24:43 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 21:26:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:27:54 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:28:02 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:29:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 21:31:23 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:31:55 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest44825. 21:40:14 http://djm.cc/bignum-results.txt 21:40:17 this is brilliant 21:40:59 pete's determined 21:41:22 he came close, too 21:41:44 F[omega**omega] :| 21:43:52 and loader just got 'very big' 21:44:49 lesson learned, the busy beaver for 512 chars of C is 'very big' 21:46:42 haha pete-9.c is great 21:47:06 http://qntm.org/files/trollpi/piequals4.png 21:47:25 loader.c is also great but i have no idea how to understand hte actual code 21:48:48 doubt i could after gcc -E in all honesty. 21:56:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:57:34 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:59:36 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:00:13 you can tell it was written before wikipedia because he refers you to an actual book for the definition of grassman sequences 22:00:23 *goodstein 22:05:19 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 22:05:21 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:05:49 -!- MDream has joined. 22:06:29 -!- boily has joined. 22:10:56 "big", "very big" 22:12:35 -!- MDream has quit (Quit: later chat). 22:13:23 loader also did give the code he used to generate loader.c: http://djm.cc/ralph-loader.tar 22:13:25 ...I was written before Wikipedia 22:13:32 mroman: mrhelloman. why the confidential informant? 22:15:52 my soap joins the flood of brands that the manufacturers insist on changing into something i don't like :( 22:16:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:16:54 are Norwegian brands particularly known to be prone to sudden detrimental changes? 22:17:19 they made a test showing most prefer the new smell, but i _hate_ fruity smell in soaps :( 22:17:32 boily: i dunno 22:18:16 i suppose windows 8 counts as a non-norwegian example. 22:18:51 In BitCoin news: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2364000/bitcoin-price-dips-as-backers-fear-mining-monopoly.html 22:18:55 *Bitcoin 22:19:05 oh i haven't checked bitcoin in a while 22:19:11 mining monopoly? interesting. 22:19:32 Yeah, the thing that wasn't supposed to realistically happen happened 22:19:33 oerjan: I dunno. I like grapefruit-scented soap. 22:19:54 loader.c is truly amazing 22:20:06 Why am I looking at Golang? 22:20:18 It might not have Node.js's callback hell, but it has node.js's error hell 22:20:25 you shouldn't be! you should be looking at loader.c 22:21:03 Sgeo: look at rust! rust is good! 22:21:11 Rust isn't 1.0 yet 22:21:15 so what. 22:21:17 512 characters excluding witespace is plenty to generate huge number 22:21:22 numbers* 22:21:53 Is there anyone apart from me for whom the first programming language they learnt was esoteric? 22:22:12 Taneb: probably hth 22:22:26 thal 22:22:29 I think mIRC scripting almost counts 22:23:20 Taneb: what was your first language? 22:23:32 Piet 22:24:07 So you wrote piet programs without knowing any programming language beforehand? 22:24:11 That's pretty impressvie 22:24:34 i learnt on pascal so 22:24:47 GW-BASIC! 22:31:59 * impomatic occasionally uses GWBASIC because I'm too lazy to rewrite my old programs... 22:37:19 My first language was C 22:40:04 my first language was BASIC, learned from a book without a computer 22:43:54 I learned from the internet 22:44:44 FreeFull, without a computer? Amazing! 22:45:50 started with minuteman II control systems, as god intended 22:46:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:49:20 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:49:48 Phantom_Hoover: loader.c is nice, or rather, its readable version. 22:52:21 I see a form of callback hell in languages that aren't JS: In Ruby and Scheme... things like passing in a closure to a function that opens a file and closes the file when the closure is done 22:52:58 I wonder if I can find a copy of that FLO83 article 22:53:26 If the node.js community manages to handle the normal callback hell sanely (especially at 0.12), maybe they could also handle this other callback hell? 22:53:36 acm journal? i don't see why not 22:53:59 Racket is perfectly capable of abusing continuations to do it, but I don't think it's idiomatic 22:54:07 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=322370 no abstract, pah 22:54:41 ya, university has access 22:56:13 Sgeo: what changed in 0.12? 22:56:29 *will change 22:56:43 Node.JS will support ES6 -- including generators 22:56:45 I haven't been paying attention to node for a while 22:56:47 oh 22:56:47 Bicyclidine: here's an abstract (with some encoding issues): http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/787214/the-expressiveness-of-simple-and-second-order-type-structures 22:57:23 Neat, I hope that includes destructuring assignments and fat-arrow functions 22:57:52 for some reason i am most used to encoding problems in papers from old ieee and acm papers 22:58:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:58:17 FireFly: fat arrows, as in coffeescript? 22:58:49 They behave similarly, yes 22:59:17 though not exactly the same--ES6's fat-arrow functions can't be used as constructors IIRC 22:59:47 -!- Bike has joined. 23:00:55 well, and also archive scans, but that's obvious 23:13:56 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/16/delta-landing-joke_n_5499323.html 23:16:15 huh. firefox crashed. must be a sign. 23:17:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INCURSIVE CHICKEN). 23:45:58 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:49:03 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:51:35 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).