00:00:38 What happens if you mutate the slice by a similar method itself 00:00:48 "foo"["fo"]["f"] = "g" 00:01:00 Does it become goo? 00:01:02 what's "abababab"["abab"] = "baba" do. 00:01:20 Bike, finish story!! 00:01:33 but after the trauma the distribution changed 00:01:53 is that it 00:01:54 Sgeo: Doesn't work because foo["fo"] returns a copy of the string. 00:02:00 that's all i wrote, if that's what you mean 00:02:21 So when you subsequently slice ["f"] and assign to it you mutate the copy, which is immediately discarded. 00:02:23 i'm not sure how closely i am expected to summarize twenty thirty year old pages 00:02:30 So the thing that imperative languages used to find more comfortable than Haskell isn't actually that more comfortable in Ruby 00:02:30 to people who don't really have any reason to care 00:03:09 i just assumed it was going somewhere from the general drive 00:03:23 no. mostly 108 dB for two hours is more or less torture 00:03:47 Suddenly I feel more ethical 00:03:55 Norns aren't conscious as far as we know 00:04:06 "neither are cats, so it's cool" 00:04:12 Bike: Replaces the first occurrence. 00:04:16 anyway ethics hadn't been invented yet, so it's fine 00:05:03 It works a lot like Python's slice syntax, in theory. Like, you can do a[1:3] = [4,5,6]. 00:05:17 String and regex slices return the span of their first match. 00:05:57 Starting to think one of the big problems with mutation is it gives too much choice. Choice whether to return copy, original thing, choice what elements or subelements of a thing are mutable or not 00:05:59 monotone: that is so boring :( 00:06:13 Whereas with immutability everywhere, the API design is forced on you in that respect 00:09:05 Probably Ruby's the wrong language to look at if I want 'constrains API design to make it easier and make people more likely to make idiomatic APIs' 00:10:44 Ruby does have the convention of "!" methods versus non-"!" methods. 00:11:13 So String#gsub! changes the original string and String#gsub returns a copy. 00:15:13 I think now I got Lemon to be able to parse the grammar G6 if a %split_states command is specified. 00:15:25 I read the book more carefully and now I did it. 00:26:21 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:28:03 -!- boily has joined. 00:30:38 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 00:39:27 help. I just played a few games of Android Netrunner against the Pouti and I want more! 00:45:45 Pouti? 00:48:08 Gregor: HACKEGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 00:48:32 Sgeo: my brother. he was in the chännel a few times. you can get some infos on him in the Infamous PDF. 00:49:03 Ah 01:00:23 "TcpSocket and SslSocket do not name their read and write methods the same thing." 01:00:40 I'm guessing this sort of thing wasn't magically fixed in Ruby 2.0? This blog post was written in 2013 01:06:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:24:07 website is down? 01:25:35 yeah 01:25:37 fizzie: Gregor: 01:29:36 Not responding to SSH either. 01:29:37 I'll send it a hard reboot. 01:32:52 Well, the admin panel's down. 01:32:54 Hyuk. 01:33:09 Cloudatcost: Pay zero per month, get what you pay for. 01:33:31 brrr: heheh 01:34:10 bad luck :\ 01:34:13 lol 01:35:02 Gregor: oh, right, I saw a thing about everyone's cloudatcost vpses going down 01:35:21 ...esolangs.org is on cloudatcost? 01:37:34 Oh hey I have a cloudatcost account 01:37:43 I should use it. When CloudAtCost is stable again 01:38:44 "when" 01:42:05 Or I could just look for another host 01:59:54 -!- augur has joined. 02:03:21 I guess I could always use the cached versions 02:12:53 -!- warrigal2 has joined. 02:21:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IMMOBILE CHICKEN). 02:31:25 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:32:04 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:35:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:49:49 "If you’re using Rails and you want to be secure, you should be protecting against mass assignment. Basically, without declaring attr_accessible or attr_protected, malicious users can set any column value in your database, including foreign keys and secure data." 02:50:04 Why not do the opposite, attr_assignable or something? 02:50:21 Is this sort of thinking a major part of Ruby culture? That's scary 02:56:31 did you know that during the battle of stalingrad, ten thousand people died per day, including many civilians of starvation 03:04:55 Sgeo, reminds me of some class vs struct C++ debates 03:06:52 (basically, struct default visibility is public, class default visibility is private) 03:12:25 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:13:09 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:37:38 Well, at least in C it would seem to make more sense to put the public members first, although I don't know how it works in C++. 03:44:38 -!- shikhout has joined. 03:47:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:48:02 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:50:45 I have a Scream Tracker file in my computer where one instrument is labeled "* Hit Alt-V Here (in ST3) *". I don't have ST3, but looking at the waveform it is clearly an ASCII text file encoded as signed data. However, looking in a hex editor it contains unsigned sample data; doing a sign conversion I was able to read it. 03:51:03 But, why is it done like this, the text is encoded as signed data even though the file is unsigned? 03:51:46 putting waveforms in ascii sounds weird 03:52:12 No, I mean one of the instrument data is actually a ASCII text file rather than audio data. 03:53:02 But from looking at the waveform, it is clear that it is ASCII data. However, somehow it got mixed up due to sign converison; I don't know why? 04:01:54 -!- realzies has joined. 04:01:55 -!- realzies has quit (Changing host). 04:01:55 -!- realzies has joined. 04:28:47 Is Ruby's begin like Scheme's begin? 04:30:03 I don't know. 04:31:22 How difficult might it be to make something in a C compiler so that you can write: if(__builtin_optimize_fork()) x=4; and then it causes undefined behaviour if x is nonvolatile and its value is not four, at this point in the program? 04:34:11 Ruby begin is special. 04:45:03 -!- augur has joined. 04:54:18 -!- Frooxius has quit (Excess Flood). 04:54:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:55:37 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:59:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:03:25 -!- warrigal2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:08:51 ? 05:32:42 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^3. 05:38:21 Sgeo, begin is a try block 05:38:38 er its like try{}catch{} in other languages 05:39:01 So why did I see source code that didn't use it like tht? 05:39:27 there is also =begin/=end block comments 05:39:31 https://github.com/sinatra/sinatra/blob/master/lib/sinatra/base.rb#L24 05:41:05 its not needed there 05:42:23 puzzle: what does "begin ... end while ..." mean 05:43:29 shachaf, thats a postfix while condition :) 05:44:02 That's not an answer. 05:44:23 puts("empty the trash") while File.exists?("~/.trash") 05:45:37 (print "."; sleep 1) while true 05:45:47 hint: "begin foo end while bar" isn't the same as "foo while bar" 05:46:15 whys that 05:46:45 why are you even here anyway 05:46:47 begin/end, foo, they're just expressions 05:47:44 i was sent from the future to give you a note but you aren't getting it now 06:08:37 -!- tromp has joined. 07:01:19 -!- tswett has joined. 07:21:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:45:32 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:06:01 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:06:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:14:03 -!- HackEgo has joined. 08:14:09 (It is back.) 08:14:26 `hug 08:14:34 WELL... 08:14:41 Huh. 08:16:10 I don't know what's up. 08:16:11 the site got back up a while ago 08:16:16 or do you just mean hackego 08:16:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hug: not found 08:17:36 SnailEgo 08:18:05 That was exceedingly slow. 08:18:23 Which is weird, since my SSH connection is working normally. 08:21:19 -!- brrr has quit (Quit: Cya!). 08:28:45 -!- edwardk has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:37:45 -!- edwardk has joined. 08:42:33 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:44:28 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:54:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:13:01 -!- TieSoul has joined. 09:29:29 `echo hi 09:29:37 hi 09:29:38 hi 09:29:55 fizzie: i think the wiki link may be broken 09:33:32 Oh, you mean the IRC announcement thing? 09:34:01 zzo38: yes 09:34:04 oops 09:34:15 That seems to be correct. 09:34:16 * fizzie 09:35:02 zzo38: i added your name to the Ligature Machine article 09:35:09 I have possibly restarted it. 09:35:15 We'll see if it helped. 09:36:55 ffmpeg being helpful: "[output stream 0:0 @ 0x3ad1120] 100 buffers queued in output stream 0:0, something may be wrong." 09:49:10 [wiki] [[Ligature Machine]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40139&oldid=40138 * Oerjan * (+0) /* Commutative Ligature Machine */ fursur a misspelling 09:55:46 [wiki] [[Malbrain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40140&oldid=40114 * Oerjan * (+10) I'd like to boldly underscore that alain turning never capitalized his name 10:02:37 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40141&oldid=40136 * Oerjan * (+31) bold, author, spacing 10:02:46 Hey, it a'works. 10:03:01 whodathunk 10:05:42 [wiki] [[Meander]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40142&oldid=40121 * Oerjan * (+0) /* Implementation */ more wikified 10:08:06 [wiki] [[Meander/Implementation]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40143&oldid=40122 * Oerjan * (+35) author, backlink 10:09:07 [wiki] [[Goldfish/Implementation]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40144&oldid=40127 * Oerjan * (+4) backlink 10:12:01 are there names for foldl (-) and foldl (/)? 10:12:12 foldl (+) is sum and foldl (*) is product 10:12:20 but what's foldl (-) / foldl (/) called? 10:12:44 rather silly 10:13:09 you're basically summing all but the first element and then subtracting from the first 10:13:16 or wait 10:13:23 that's with foldl1 10:13:23 subtracting everything from the first 10:13:48 basically foldl (-) x l == x - sum l 10:13:50 yes 10:14:16 so not immensely useful 10:14:29 and foldl (/) is the same for product 10:15:23 so nobody has given those a useful name 10:15:24 if it were foldr you would at least be alternating. but also blowing stack. 10:16:24 it's like, sum and product are useful because (+) and (*) are monoid operations 10:16:35 and (-) and (/) are not 10:16:50 :t fold 10:16:51 (Monoid m, Foldable t) => t m -> m 10:19:47 this apartment complex is having a meeting to establish house rules. despite my hopeless sleeping cycle i am slightly tempted to go just to _ensure_ the paragraph about not letting your animals annoy the neighbors gets passed exactly as it's in the draft. 10:20:10 (see: that bloody dog) 10:21:54 afk 10:42:58 -!- Froox has joined. 10:42:58 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:48:20 -!- yorick has joined. 11:01:09 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:01:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:04:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:04:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 11:07:05 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:08:20 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:11:29 [wiki] [[SELECT.]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40145&oldid=40130 * Oerjan * (+8) /* Sample programs */ I'll just subtract these links from ehird's payment 11:15:08 quintopia: give me and oerjan bitcoins 11:18:04 i want btc too 11:18:20 -!- vifino has joined. 11:19:01 you don't do valuable wiki edits, sorry 11:24:01 [wiki] [[Spacechem Programming Language]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40146&oldid=40132 * Oerjan * (+16) To boldly stub 11:24:36 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:25:24 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 11:25:56 [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40147&oldid=40135 * Oerjan * (+44) boldly stub the author 11:28:36 [wiki] [[RCEM]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40148&oldid=19979 * Oerjan * (-8) boldly follow policy 11:31:12 [wiki] [[RCEM]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40149&oldid=40148 * Oerjan * (-12) unsanctioned sectioning 11:31:19 [wiki] [[X plus plus]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40150&oldid=37906 * Oerjan * (-7) boldly dis-secting 11:32:22 the wiki is taking bloody long to reload the pages 11:32:37 that's because it's running on a $0/month vps 11:32:58 fancy 11:34:01 fizzie: is php fpm having problems? 11:34:04 getting gateway timeout errors 11:34:22 I hope the cache and everything is still working :) 11:34:24 oh whatever let it just keep those extraneous blank lines 11:35:01 oerjan: um... http://esolangs.org/wiki/X%2B%2B http://esolangs.org/wiki/X_plus_plus 11:35:27 I see, I need to do a history merge. 11:36:24 i suppose me dos'ing the wiki with my customary self-diff check doesn't help. 11:36:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ehird * deleted "[[X++]]": Deleted to make way for move from "[[X plus plus]]" 11:36:38 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ehird * moved [[X plus plus]] to [[X++]]: shfoop 11:36:59 * elliott sighs at the slowness 11:37:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 11:37:48 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ehird * moved [[Talk:X plus plus]] to [[Talk:X++]]: shfoop 11:37:48 um, did that move fail? 11:38:00 oh. 11:38:02 it's just really, really slow 11:38:15 my diffs loaded, anyway 11:38:29 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] restore * Ehird * restored "[[X++]]": 3 revisions restored: bop 11:39:17 cool messed up history now 11:42:22 eek that it is 11:42:50 arguably I could have just moved X++ to X++/crap or something 11:42:54 feel free to figure out how to do that move if you want :) 11:44:15 elliott: are you saying _both_ pages existed and neither was a redirect? :( 11:44:41 i am pretty sure my edit did not do all this http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=X%2B%2B&diff=40150&oldid=38198 11:44:46 oerjan: yes. hence the um 11:45:01 the weird diffs result from mediawiki having a linear view of history. 11:45:10 so you just see the diff to the previous chronological edit 11:46:55 the history can be split again if you really care 11:47:01 but it sort of seems a fitting punishment for an article this bad 11:47:06 and you can of course diff the right two revisions manually 11:47:09 erm, the article isn't bad 11:47:13 but the state of having two of them was. 11:52:08 it's like hard to tell what _happened_ with the histories merged, you know. 11:53:46 history splits look like a pain thouuuugh 11:53:57 you could just re-delete the revisions from the old article. 11:54:20 I've been up for about 24 hours, I can't deal with more than one finnicky mediawiki thing 11:54:31 yes, but i have to find which ones that _are_ before doing it. sheesh. 11:55:26 although can i assume the messages above mean the old article only had three revisions? 11:56:10 * elliott nod 11:57:27 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Oerjan * Oerjan changed visibility of revisions on page [[X++]]: Leftover revisions from botched history merge 11:57:54 the history merged wasn't botched! 11:57:58 you just didn't like it :P 11:58:04 O KAY 11:58:13 btw, change visibility is wrong 11:58:22 that's used for hiding things like offensive edits and personal information 11:58:34 (it's wikipedia's "oversight" role) 11:58:36 ok so what _do_ i do. 11:58:43 okay okay I'll do it 11:58:47 but you owe me some bitcoins, okay? 11:59:06 you can have the ones quintopia owes me 11:59:08 for future reference you go into delete 11:59:11 it can go per-revision 11:59:19 or uh 11:59:21 fuck how does it work 11:59:29 okay you might have to delete the whole page and then restore the ones you want (sigh) 11:59:59 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] revision * Ehird * Ehird changed visibility of revisions on page [[X++]]: brrrrrrk 12:00:29 it's fun to do this when nothing loads 12:01:02 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ehird * deleted "[[X++]]": tptptptptptpptpttpppppppppppp 12:02:48 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] restore * Ehird * restored "[[X++]]": 18 revisions restored: glorp top blop 12:04:41 this is going to be a great edit I'm going to make sometime within the next 18 hours 12:05:13 wait what 12:05:18 ? 12:05:28 oh well now it's not loading at all 12:05:50 I broke it. Sorry. 12:05:54 i was sort of going to do a little more cleanup afterward 12:06:09 oh well, food -> 12:08:20 [wiki] [[X++]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40155&oldid=40151 * Ehird * (-22) bubbles idly. Let's eat the silk road 12:11:05 fun thing, my own edit to X++ now longer shows in recent changes 12:11:10 *no 12:15:19 did I delete it by accident? 12:15:35 no, it just isn't listed 12:34:40 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:47:15 -!- ^3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:53:31 -!- mhi^ has joined. 13:34:34 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:35:01 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:35:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:41:03 -!- vifino has joined. 13:41:48 -!- nys has joined. 15:12:24 -!- shikhout has joined. 15:12:38 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:14:00 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 15:28:44 [wiki] [[Twocode/Doublecode]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40156 * GermanyBoy * (+10953) Created page with "'''Doublecode''' is a twocode interpreter by [[User:GermanyBoy]] in Sve. == Usage == Interpreter reads lines from the standard input until a line with text "EOF" is encounte..." 15:29:17 [wiki] [[Twocode/Doublecode]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40157&oldid=40156 * GermanyBoy * (+4) link 15:29:59 Damn Strings are still messy :( 15:30:24 [wiki] [[Twocode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40158&oldid=40071 * GermanyBoy * (-8) /* (summary/infobox) */ doublecode 15:30:25 The idea was to have Strings just be lists of integers 15:30:30 I.e. a list of chars 15:30:50 but then I don't know whether to print {65 66} or AB 15:36:51 -!- boily has joined. 15:37:15 -!- ^v has joined. 15:37:35 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:39:20 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:40:05 -!- ^v has joined. 15:43:25 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 15:43:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:45:32 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Me sais Laptop sleepy.). 15:45:43 -!- vifino has joined. 16:09:11 @ask oerjan There's a policy? 16:09:11 Consider it noted. 16:10:26 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40159&oldid=40141 * 92.105.82.69 * (-1) freezed -> frozen 16:12:08 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:12:54 [wiki] [[Taworvor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40160&oldid=40147 * Feuermonster * (+197) 16:24:20 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 16:27:03 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:33:06 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:45:33 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:45:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:46:37 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:52:13 mroman: Erlang has that exact problem. 17:11:36 CloudAtCost is losing the locks of their fiber channel locking technology, according to them. 17:11:50 Sounds Dilbertesque, like misplacing the token of a token ring 17:12:02 -!- not^v has joined. 17:12:19 "CloudAtCost has been experiencing extended storage outages due to the underlying Fiber channel Locking technology. Since our environment has grown so large we are constantly getting lost locks which is a manual process for us to track down and fix where the process of fixing one virtual server can take up to 15-20 minutes." 17:12:31 ion: I flag Lists as String now 17:13:11 however, you can add a list to a list flagged as a string 17:13:23 it's not something anybody should do, but it can be done 17:17:09 Apparently the following COBOL program generates 570 error messages: PROGRAM-ID. ERRMSG. Is this some kind of test function in the compiler? 17:17:14 -!- brrr has joined. 17:25:22 i have been pinged 17:27:00 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:48:23 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:50:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:52:52 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 17:55:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:55:56 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:56:23 -!- not^v has joined. 17:59:04 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:59:28 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:00:29 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:05:56 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:21:12 zzo38: there isn't even an identification division? 18:21:36 What happens if you change it from ERRMSG to something else? 18:23:40 Sgeo: lemme send you something I wrote. 18:24:23 Sgeo: http://pastebin.ca/2820574 18:24:34 This is a joke one, of course. 18:25:54 Some kind of animal that's split in parts? 18:26:16 Sgeo: I don't know; I only read elsewhere that that is the case. I don't know what happen in other cases, but apparently that one line is the entire program. 18:26:28 Sgeo: have you read the entire thing? 18:27:21 Yes, but can't really visualize it. Insertion behavior sounds like normal eating, discharge behavior sounds like pooping 18:27:37 it's three animals 18:27:39 It describes humans. 18:28:08 two humans and a blowup doll 18:28:10 well, whatever 18:28:20 I conceptualized -C as some sort of detatchable rear end 18:29:13 I don't think humans have those, but pretty sure I'm just misvisualizing the whole thing 18:29:41 Each of the three objects is a separate human. 18:30:09 Ah 18:30:30 tswett: ‘by an opaque "skin"’ – i’d suggest ‘by an opaque surface’ 18:30:39 oh, two humans and a kid 18:30:42 well, gross, either way 18:30:45 Oh! -A and -B are babies, -C is breastfeeding -A? 18:30:56 -C is the baby and -A is breastfeeding -C. 18:30:58 Babies are 170 centimeters in length? 18:31:00 oh. kid. better 18:31:13 ion: c is 50 cm it says 18:31:35 I think the word its confused me 18:32:22 I'm going to continue writing. 18:33:48 Very nice so far. 18:33:56 Thanks. 18:46:04 SCP-1960-J is pretty excellent 18:47:25 I've seen the phrase "XK-class end-of-the-world scenario" a few times. 18:47:37 Are there non-XK-class end-of-the-world scenarios or XK-class non-end-of-the-world scenarios? 18:48:14 yeah. there's CK and stuff. 18:48:32 and "SK-class dominance shift" i think it is, where another species becomes dominant over humans 18:49:52 ah, here's a sort of list on 1985 18:49:55 «The list of distinct scenarios (without duplicates, and following the Jackson K-Class Classification System) includes ███ XK-class Type Alpha (scorched earth) end of the world scenarios, ███ XK-class Type Omega (religious) end of the world scenarios, ███ AK-class "madness" end of the world scenarios, ██ EK-class "consciousness-loss" end of the world scenarios, ███ NK-class "grey goo" end of the world scenarios, 18:50:04 «The list of distinct scenarios (without duplicates, and following the Jackson K-Class Classification System) includes ███ XK-class Type Alpha (scorched earth) end of the world scenarios, ███ XK-class Type Omega (religious) end of the world scenarios, ███ AK-class "madness" end of the world scenarios, ██ EK-class "consciousness-loss" end of the world scenarios, ███ NK-class "grey goo" end of the world ... 18:50:10 ... scenarios, ███ CK-class restructuring scenarios, ███ RK-class "out-competition" restructuring scenarios, ███ SK-class dominance shift scenarios, ███ IK-class collapse of global civilization scenarios, [DATA EXPUNGED]» 18:50:14 there we go 18:50:36 you could have jus tlinked it? 18:50:52 it's in the middle of the page. 18:51:13 i also remember zk reality failure 18:53:23 Shouldn't it be better to put in the alphabetical orders? 18:54:16 Why do I buy breath strips? 18:54:26 They're so addictive 18:54:43 Pretty sure I'm going to burn my tongue and stomach off 18:54:55 Better than cigarettes. 18:56:15 And getting 1 hour of sleep each night is better than dying in a car crash. 19:04:27 I just ate 24 breath strips 19:08:01 http://pastebin.ca/2820590 – okay, this is as long as it's going to get. 19:08:31 I might actually want to remove the part about food. 19:08:55 I definitely want that last sentence to stay at the end. 19:16:27 Is there a program that a commutative ligature-counter machine is capable of but that either one individually cannot? 19:17:44 I searched Google for 'ligature counter machine'. The top result is an article titled "Accidental Ligature Strangulation by an Ironing Machine". 19:17:56 No it is only in the esolang wiki 19:18:10 -!- leahder has joined. 19:19:01 -!- leahder has quit (Client Quit). 19:26:41 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 19:47:16 breath strips are gross 19:58:13 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:03:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:03:32 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:07:07 @messages- 20:07:07 mroman asked 3h 57m 56s ago: There's a policy? 20:07:22 @tell mroman http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Policy 20:07:22 Consider it noted. 20:07:22 Do you like a tsume shogi game? 20:07:56 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:24:46 -!- Sorella has joined. 20:25:37 I guess I'll be removing that comma then . 20:36:57 wait what comma 20:39:24 mroman: also i don't know if you got the part of the discussion where i mentioned my last edit to X++ didn't show up in recent changes after that merging mess. 20:40:58 (it's still in the page history though) 20:41:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:44:09 elliott: all these new language/interpreter pages make it almost look like we should enable main space subpages. 20:44:29 hm _now_ elliott is idle. 20:48:00 taworvor, the language with only ugly types 20:56:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:56:30 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:02:06 -!- Zerker has joined. 21:20:01 you think it will be down to penalty shots? 21:23:33 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:25:00 -!- conehead has joined. 21:26:21 -!- not^v has joined. 21:26:21 -!- not^v has quit (Client Quit). 21:27:40 -!- brrr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:28:50 -!- brrr has joined. 21:29:56 turns out probably no 21:31:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:33:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:37:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:47:01 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 21:49:41 "There’s public, private, and protected to enforce access, instead of Python’s _voluntary_ underscore __convention__." 21:49:44 haha "enforce" 21:49:47 You're so funny Ruby 21:50:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:50:39 heh 21:51:02 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 21:51:03 yes, ruby deliberately has multiple ways to break all kinds of encapsulation and scope rules 21:51:38 You have to be deliberate about it in Ruby... but same with Python, kind of hard not to notice the convention 21:56:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:04:55 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 22:08:33 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:08:59 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:10:04 Hmm... 22:10:08 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 22:10:30 Do there exist any languages which require turing-completeness to accept? can we even formalize this notion? 22:10:57 not counting the obvious encodings of TMs 22:12:08 nearly all proofs that languages require turing-completeness to accept go via encoding something eventually leading back to TMs. 22:13:43 (by "nearly all" i mean "there's probably some exception but i cannot recall it") 22:14:19 for instance, the C pre-processor is turing-complete, so the language of valid (C source/compiled C source) pairs should be such a language, yes 22:22:46 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:23:26 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 22:24:53 The C preprocessor isn't TC unless iterated. 22:26:15 coppro: Academic languages are implementing type systems that require a SAT-solver. A "correct" implementation requires TC to accept, but real implementations just give up. 22:32:08 even ghc seems to be getting that 22:44:19 coppro, isn't that just languages that can be recognized by an unrestricted grammar but not by a context-sensitive grammar? 22:45:23 (bear in mind that I don't quite know what I'm talking about) 22:50:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:51:35 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:53:39 that seems a bit imprecise. there are unrestricted grammars giving languages much weaker than TC. 22:53:44 -!- edwardk has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:27 basically, the whole complexity hierarchy above SPACE(O(n)) lies outside context-sensitive. 22:54:29 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 22:55:48 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:57:07 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:58:25 e.g. primitive recursive functions give an intermediate class. 22:59:58 and we recently discussed how system F gives second-level logic provable termination, which is between _that_ and TC again. 23:01:01 chomsky's grammar categorization is very coarse indeed by modern standards. 23:09:09 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:10:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:11:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:12:43 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:16:53 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 23:33:09 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 23:49:07 I think a problem with Ruby compared to Python may not be "There's more than one way to do it" as "There's more than one way to do it, very similar but with slight but significant differences that are hard to remember" 23:49:18 * Sgeo wonders if Ruby 2.0 went any way towards fixing that 23:53:35 Ruby lets you be extremely ad-hoc 23:53:40 And there is no type system to protect you 23:53:57 It's a recipe for lots of subtle, horrid bugs 23:57:28 I'm trying to like it right now. Not really sure why 23:57:36 Sgeo: that's perl for you