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00:59:00 <elliott> mi aerodeslizador es lleno de anguilas
01:00:03 <elliott> No sé lo que estoy haciendo. Yo ni siquiera sé español
01:01:26 <Guest5662> bueno que importa jajaja, pero como estas escribiendo español si no sabes ?=-O
01:02:20 <elliott> https://translate.google.com/
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01:03:14 <Guest5662> pero quisieras hablar español conmigo??
01:03:25 <oerjan> ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.)
01:04:45 <Guest5662> osea que no puedo estar en este grupo? :'(
01:06:01 <oerjan> Es posible, pero la mayoría de nosotros va a no entender si usted no habla Inglés.
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01:08:13 <Guest5662> es que todos los grupos estan en ingles :-/
01:09:57 <oerjan> Es difícil hacerlo, porque tenemos que copiar y pegar todo en el traductor de google y viceversa.
01:12:04 <oerjan> Estoy en Noruega. Otros de aquí son en su mayoría de América del Norte o Europa.
01:13:45 <oerjan> Realmente no hablo español, estoy utilizando Google ahora.
01:17:22 <oerjan> No mucho. También es muy tarde y yo debería ir a la cama.
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01:24:15 <Bike> http://xorshammer.com/2011/07/09/a-logical-interpretation-of-some-bits-of-topology/ neat.
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01:45:40 <elliott> Bike: have you seen http://paultaylor.eu/ASD/
01:45:52 <elliott> I hear weed is legal where you are so maybe you can even understand it
01:46:08 <Bike> they only opened a store like last week, it's dumb
01:46:15 <Bike> my dad was trying to sell t-shirts celebrating it
01:46:41 <Bike> this has a lot of italics. is it insane
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01:54:32 <Sgeo> http://pastie.org/9404065
01:55:19 <Sgeo> Corrected version: http://codepad.org/Dt2Kssap
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03:11:03 <zzo38> A quiz predicts I am "84% Sitakaliist" (82 percentile).
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05:40:48 <zzo38> One commenter doesn't believe that arbitrary disjunctions of semi-decidable predicates is semidecidable. But, can't you run programs like: First run one step of the first program, and then run one step of the first two programs, and then run one step of the first three programs, and then run one step of the first four programs.
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06:07:41 <zzo38> copumpkin: I do not know what all of those things mean.
06:10:20 <copumpkin> oh, when you say arbitrary disjunctions, do you mean more than binary disjunctions?
06:10:35 <copumpkin> I just proved the binary case there, not sure if it works for infinite ones
06:11:20 <zzo38> The part "[doesn't] believe that arbitrary disjunctions of semi-decidable predicates is semidecidable" is a quotation.
06:19:54 <zzo38> So, it isn't me who meant something by it.
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08:47:46 <ion> shachaf: hachaf
08:49:00 <shachaf> so what do "puhu" and "puhun" mean
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08:57:58 <ion> “puhu” is a command to talk, “puhun” is “I talk” or “I am talking”.
08:58:06 <ion> puhua is the basic form.
08:58:37 <ion> “I don’t talk” or “I won’t talk”
08:58:51 <shachaf> where does the “I” come from
08:59:49 <shachaf> i guess that one isn't very hard
08:59:54 <fizzie> From the way "en" is inflected.
08:59:58 <ion> The -n inflection
09:00:04 <ion> In both cases
09:01:40 <fizzie> en puhu, et puhu, ei puhu; emme puhu, ette puhu, eivät puhu: (I) don't speak, (you, singular) don't speak, (he/she/it) doesn't speak; (we) don't speak, (you, plural) don't speak; (they) don't speak.
09:02:12 <fizzie> Or puhun, puhut, puhuu; puhumme, puhutte, puhuvat for the non-negated version.
09:02:26 <fizzie> You can SEE the PATTERNS.
09:02:39 <ion> IT’S FULL OF INFLECTIONS
09:03:41 <olsner> vowel harmony something?
09:03:42 <ion> ua is easier to say than uä, iä is kind of easier than ia
09:03:58 <fizzie> Sounds better. Usually it's from vowel harmony, but "ei" technically doesn't need it.
09:04:24 <fizzie> The groups are [aou] and [äöy], with [ei] being somewhat neutral.
09:04:58 <fizzie> But e.g. puhuvat (they speak) vs. hyppivät (they leap).
09:05:38 <fizzie> Perhaps more "jump" than "leap". Anyway.
09:05:57 <olsner> hyppi- is similar to the swedish word for jump (hoppa)
09:06:07 <shachaf> what's a good way to answer these sorts of questions without bugging people on irc
09:07:51 <fizzie> Get a net, come to Finland, catch a native Finnish speaker and keep it in your basement.
09:07:59 <fizzie> Just remember to give it some water and food.
09:08:29 <fizzie> Then perhaps some sort of a cage, I don't know.
09:09:03 <olsner> what size of cage should you get for a finn? what do they eat?
09:09:40 <fizzie> olsner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_cuisine
09:09:55 <fizzie> The famous Finnish cuisine.
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09:10:47 <fizzie> I don't suppose most people really think about which vowels there are and so on, since the right choice is almost always the one that "sounds right".
09:10:51 <shachaf> i have several finnish cuisines
09:11:12 <shachaf> and even more second cuisines
09:13:54 <olsner> if you wrote y as the vowel groups would be even more regular
09:15:43 <Melvar> To the best of my knowledge, the thing in Finnish is considered vowel harmony.
09:19:42 <shachaf> fizzie: hm are you volunteering
09:20:11 <shachaf> or is that not how nets work
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09:53:13 <shachaf> fizzie: how about "olet" vs. "olette"
09:54:41 <olsner> second person plural of some verb?
09:55:20 <olsner> *first vs second person
09:55:45 <olsner> eh, wrong again, I meant singular/plural
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10:06:16 <fizzie> "you (singular) are" vs. "you (plural) are".
10:07:22 <ion> sinä olet shachaf
10:07:25 <ion> te olette #esoteric
10:08:13 <myname> malagassy has two "we", one with the person you talk to and one without
10:08:15 <fizzie> With the personal pronouns (sinä, te) completely optional.
10:08:24 <shachaf> but "te" can also be a formal/polite version of "sinä"?
10:09:09 <fizzie> In a decline, I'd say.
10:09:23 <Melvar> myname: Practically everything south-east Asian does.
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10:12:45 <shachaf> hebrew has some of this pronoun-dropping thing
10:12:50 <ion> Did English have teitittely when thou/ye were distinct?
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11:00:25 <oerjan> olsner: your unicode is showing up as replacement character hth
11:02:42 <oerjan> i think this is the second time i've noticed this, except i'm not sure it was olsner the other time.
11:03:02 <oerjan> <olsner> if you wrote y as � the vowel groups would be even more regular
11:03:15 <shachaf> 02:13 <olsner> if you wrote y as ü the vowel groups would be even more regular
11:03:41 <shachaf> i bet it has to do with that weird irc encoding
11:03:45 <oerjan> because it shows up wrong in both codu and tunes.
11:04:05 <shachaf> which uses iso-8859-1 if everything in a line can be encoded that way
11:04:31 <shachaf> i think xchat does that by default?
11:04:35 <shachaf> apparently olsner's irc client is gnu sed
11:04:45 <oerjan> you'd think so, but manually changing the encoding of the log page did not help
11:05:12 <oerjan> let me check tunes for that
11:05:37 <oerjan> oh tunes has it "right"
11:05:56 <shachaf> olsner: fix your irc client hth
11:05:59 <oerjan> so codu has started replacing iso-8859-1 with unicode replacement characters.
11:07:44 <oerjan> it's like we're in the gregorcalypse
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11:10:34 <oerjan> hm the raw codu log also keeps the ü
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11:11:10 <oerjan> perhaps it's always been like this but i've only noticed since i started using the nicely formatted log version
11:12:01 <oerjan> yep, both .txt and -raw.txt have the ü
11:12:39 <olsner> does this ü work better?
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12:01:28 <FireFly> http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/2b3tyx/computing_with_graphs/
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12:26:24 <olsner> is that, like, eodermdrome?
12:31:15 <FireFly> I don't know, I'm not familiar with Eodermdrome
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14:14:48 <fizzie> By which I mean a plain no.
14:15:24 <fizzie> It would help to get some sort of sign of life out of Gregor "idle for 5 days" Gregor.
14:15:44 <elliott> fizzie: how many bitcoins would it take for you to put that XML dump on a read-only mediawiki install and point esolangs.org at it?
14:16:13 <elliott> n.b. actual payment unlikely
14:17:43 <fizzie> I might do it for free tomorrow.
14:18:13 <fizzie> (Also I have a full mirror from April, I could use that.)
14:18:29 <elliott> that's some odd time discounting.
14:18:39 <elliott> fizzie: well, the XML dumps are actually rather complete
14:18:47 <elliott> they have all pages and files and revisions
14:19:08 <elliott> pretty much all you need on top of that is things like users and bans
14:19:14 <elliott> not sure if it tracks protection or not
14:19:53 <fizzie> I guess, but I don't know how to use them. But perhaps I could get the mirror-installation up and running, and then import the dump on top of that. If that is a thing that's done.
14:20:57 <elliott> no, GregorR = Gregor gRegor
14:21:05 <elliott> fizzie: you just set up MW and then upload it to Special:Import through a browser
14:21:16 <ion> newtype Gregor = Gregor Gregor
14:22:05 <elliott> copy MW, use the command-line installer thing, copy whatever backup of LocalSettings you have, put $wgReadOnly in there, import the pages, run the cache generation script (optional), done
14:22:18 <elliott> I guess you can import on top of a mirror, maybe
14:22:28 <elliott> you might want to clear out the pages/files tables first
14:22:45 <elliott> I sort of think having it be editable would be bad though, since all the edits would get lost whenever 'Regor wakes up.
14:23:19 <fizzie> Well. I'll attempt this tomorrow, or later today if I feel especially vigorous.
14:24:44 <elliott> thought: you could distribute PGP-encrypted daily database dumps so you can restore users etc. without any privacy risk in future :)
14:24:53 <elliott> not sure how big they'd be compressed, though
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14:40:13 <oerjan> Taneb: you have been followed up hth http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/
14:40:40 <oerjan> too bad he'll never know
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14:48:25 <Phantom_Hoover> we're actually only a month away from when the garfield [something that sounds like minus] garfield apocalypse would have been
14:49:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I've... forgotten what this is about
14:50:14 <oerjan> also, the people in the forum are planning a special for sromg 1978(?)-2014
14:50:59 <oerjan> (basically, have each comic be based on the anniversary garfield comic from that year)
14:51:07 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, well they had a ton of strips on that formula until dmm put a stop to it by riffing on terminator 2
14:51:20 <boily> sromg? SCSI Read-only Oh My God?
14:51:31 <oerjan> square root of minus garfield
14:52:50 <elliott> scrotum renovation: only massive genitalia
14:53:14 <boily> for once, I am more scared of elliott than oerjan. today is going to be an interesting day...
14:53:39 <elliott> aw c'mon. I'm plenty scary!
14:54:16 <oerjan> anyway, sromg is going around nicely, dmm has a huge backlog of submissions which is growing.
14:54:54 <oerjan> mezzacotta itself is of course autogenerated, and as bad as ever.
14:55:08 <oerjan> lightning made of owls is barely hanging on.
14:55:35 <oerjan> awkward fumbles was essentially dead, but has had a couple recently.
14:56:28 <oerjan> elliott: http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=625
14:56:38 <elliott> making the one-trick pony markov comic the flagship of mezzacotta seems shortsighted in retrospect
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14:56:53 <oerjan> if you look at the titles in the archive before that day, you can see how bad the meme had got
14:57:02 <elliott> right, I do remember this.
14:58:31 <elliott> that strip is a masterpiece
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15:07:55 <oerjan> i calculate sromg 1928 will be on the prophesized date
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15:08:49 <oerjan> i assume dmm has long since queued comics beyond that.
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15:10:29 <oerjan> i am not sure whether to correct the misspelling or revel in it.
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16:41:46 <int-e> Variations on the "The world is constantly changing" Garfield strip.
16:43:17 <int-e> http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=603 seems to be a particularly unfunny one to me
17:15:09 <newsham_> what is the most unfunny comic strip ever?
17:23:34 <Bike> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br0FAXbIQAAyIjg.jpg:large now, now, there are many other contenders
17:25:55 <zzo38> Why don't you store raw logs as actual raw data instead of converting? Sometimes (but rarely) it is posting something which is neither ISO-8859-1 nor UTF-8. Someone once posted something using Russian encoding.
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19:08:51 <int-e> wow, wikipedia's page on CTCP is so incomplete
19:11:58 <int-e> zzo38: are you sure that the raw logs (on codu) are decoded in any way? they look pretty raw to me, with some prefix added on each line.
19:14:39 <elliott> they are filtered per channel
19:19:58 <zzo38> int-e: I don't know but it is something someone mentioned above.
19:20:22 <zzo38> elliott: Yes, although I think also ones that aren't filtered by channel are also available, it look like.
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19:21:41 <Sgeo> Ruby, you see something using .each and want your own objects to implement it, it's 'obvious' that you just define each for your own class. Python, you see for ... in ... and want to write your own that supports it, you need to check the documentation to see that you need to define __iter__
19:28:23 <shachaf> have we really gotten to this point, Sgeo
19:28:37 <shachaf> ruby vs. python, which one is more obvious
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20:21:43 <fizzie> Running importDump.php now.
20:22:10 <fizzie> Forgot to give the --report option, no idea how long it'll take.
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20:27:02 <fizzie> Well, based on a "select count(*) from revision;" in another terminal, it's importing at a blinding speed of 1 revision/second.
20:27:41 <fizzie> The dump has 32535 revisions in it.
20:28:01 <fizzie> So it'll be ready in just nine short hours.
20:28:17 <zzo38> What date is this dump from?
20:29:55 <fizzie> It's not very new, it's from April 21st. But it's only for a temporary read-only copy so that people have something to look at, while we're waiting to get the real one back up. (And only after that think about maybe moving it.)
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20:31:24 <elliott> the XML dump is from the last day the server was up, btw
20:32:23 <fizzie> You mean that is somewhere?
20:34:02 <fizzie> Because I haven't downloaded it, but if someone has, I could restore from that instead.
20:52:38 <zzo38> If I have a nine-bit value and want to convert so that the high four bits (one of which is in a separate register) are converted into the value that bit7 copies bit3, what is the fastest way to do that in a 6502 code without using up too much ROM/RAM space?
20:58:56 <zzo38> Currently I have the following twenty cycle code: LDX <PCHI LDA <PCMID LSR A LSR A LSR A LSR A LSR A ORA <PCDECOD,X Is there a better way?
21:10:36 <elliott> 23:37:29 <elliott> fizzie: http://eso.mroman.ch/log2.txt http://eso.mroman.ch/wikidump/
21:10:53 <fizzie> Well, did you also expect me to pay attention?
21:10:59 <elliott> I downloaded it but deleted it
21:11:36 <fizzie> For the record, the thing has restored 25 pages, at a speed of 0.01 pages/sec, 1.24 revs/sec.
21:12:09 <int-e> zzo38: does this work? LDA <PCHI; LSR A; LDA <PCMID; ROL A; ROL A; ROL A; ROL A; AND 0xF?
21:14:47 <zzo38> int-e: AND 0xF is clearly wrong.
21:15:23 <zzo38> Since, it clears the high bit.
21:15:34 <int-e> zzo38: I could not parse your specification and you did not give us the contents of the PCDECOD table
21:16:00 <zzo38> int-e: The contents are $00 followed by $88
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21:22:01 <int-e> and there is no ASR. inconvenient.
21:32:34 <int-e> zzo38: ok, I can't improve your code without going crazy with lookup tables (a 256 entries table for shifting to the right by 5 would do the trick, of course)
21:43:06 <zzo38> int-e: I know; I thought of that!
21:43:22 <zzo38> I also thought of using PHP and PLP somehow, but as it turns out that doesn't help either.
21:43:39 <zzo38> But I think someone else has finally told me an answer that is working OK.
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22:11:14 <fizzie> 530 (0.10 pages/sec 1.98 revs/sec) fast as molasses
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22:26:58 <Taneb> Is the statement "There are infinitely many rational numbers between any two different real numbers" true?
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22:44:39 <zzo38> Do you know if on a 6502 if the RTS instruction runs and the data popped from the stack is $FFFF, will the program continue at address zero?
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22:54:52 <nooodl> zzo38: i would assume so
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23:00:58 <Sgeo> "If two or more threads use the catch_warnings context manager at the same time, the behavior is undefined."
23:11:32 <oerjan> <zzo38> Why don't you store raw logs as actual raw data instead of converting? Sometimes (but rarely) it is posting something which is neither ISO-8859-1 nor UTF-8. Someone once posted something using Russian encoding. <-- they are, but the formatted version *usually* looks better to me, but it has this problem.
23:12:00 <zzo38> Then they should fix it so that when converting raw to formatted, it will correct it!
23:12:32 <zzo38> (This should probably be done both for formatted plaintext and for HTML.)
23:13:19 <oerjan> well the formatted plaintext doesn't do any conversion.
23:13:33 <oerjan> so i can change encoding in the browser for that.
23:14:47 <oerjan> but it has the problem with lines not wrapping in my browser, which is usually more irritating.
23:15:22 <oerjan> and we're currently waiting for a chance to get Gregor to fix _anything_.
23:15:54 <oerjan> at least he has a stable irc connection.
23:20:41 <fizzie> 1939 (0.20 pages/sec 2.47 revs/sec)
23:20:52 <fizzie> Perhaps tomorrow we shall have a read-only wiki.
23:25:23 <b_jonas> fizzie: great! then people will pester you to fix stuff in it by directly messing with the database, because normal edit won't yet work
23:27:27 <oerjan> i suspect that will not be a big problem.
23:28:21 <zzo38> Then you can discuss edits in the IRC, and since it is logged, then if any such edits do need to be made they can be made afterward.
23:31:37 <b_jonas> is there an esolang yet whose goal is to make it easier to write programs that edit the esolang wiki entry for that same language?
23:32:14 <b_jonas> possibly one that's restricted so editing that wiki entry is, in some way, the only thing programs in that language can do?
23:34:17 <Sgeo> Has anyone tried the K framework?
23:34:22 <Sgeo> I might start watching the tutorials
23:34:47 <Melvar> ( with Vect sequence [[1,2],[3,4]]
23:34:48 <idris-bot> [[1, 3], [2, 4]] : Vect 2 (Vect 2 Integer)
23:45:39 <oerjan> ff weather forecast going ballistic again
23:46:47 <zzo38> I have found that Infocom's Z-machine interpreter for Commodore 64 takes 30 cycles to read one byte from the PC; my own interpreter for Famicom takes only 19 cycles. This is what time it usually takes; it can be longer.
23:48:55 <zzo38> My program is 25 cycles in worse case; their program is over 70 cycles in worse case.
23:57:25 <nooodl> zzo38: how does input work
23:57:36 <nooodl> playing zork on a nes controller sounds painful
23:57:55 <zzo38> nooodl: It is using the keyboard.
23:58:15 <nooodl> oh right! that's a thing
23:58:19 <zzo38> The Famicom does have a keyboard, although it is not hardwired like the gamepads are.