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00:12:10 <oerjan> hap-pi approximation day
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02:36:46 <amenghra> hi, i just finished writing an esolang. I'm wondering if anyone thinks it's crazy (i.e. good) or lame (i.e. i wasted my time). http://quaxio.com/ajsone/
02:37:27 <Bike> this looks way too sensible
02:39:06 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:XML-based_programming_languages
02:39:40 <amenghra> not sure those are all turing complete
02:40:09 <Bike> oh, here's the one i was thinking of http://www.o-xml.org/spec/langspec.html
02:40:54 <Bike> as you can see, you managed to make something about as good as this thing which somebody made seriously, and to explain it in just a page
02:41:33 <amenghra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSXML
02:41:50 <amenghra> that one looks similar to my idea. Except json gives me less freedom than xml.
02:41:56 <Bike> «<callfunction name="showmessage" />» mein gott.
02:42:10 <amenghra> lol, I can't believe anyone would think that's a good idea!
02:42:18 <Bike> anyway i remember adding homoiconicity as long as you're jsoning
02:42:35 <Bike> recommend, not remember
02:42:46 <Bike> though really isn't all knowledge just rememberance of past lives, eh??
02:44:49 <amenghra> thanks for pointing out homoiconicity, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity is a great read :)
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08:57:06 <Taneb> My house has been connected to the internet :)
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09:37:23 <fizzie> IoH, the Internet of Houses; I hear it's a hot topic these days.
09:41:36 <Taneb> Is it bad that I get a real kick out of when I show someone a program I wrote and they reply "wtf is wrong with you"?
09:43:51 <int-e> sounds normal to me
09:44:13 <int-e> Then again I'm here on #esoteric, and so are you.
09:44:26 <Taneb> https://gist.github.com/Taneb/92c2273815931be07d97
09:47:22 <int-e> okay, playing with Church encodings on the level of gmp's C interface has not occurred to me before :P
09:47:40 * int-e is still half asleep
09:49:56 <olsner> Taneb: I get that kick too, much more satisfying than someone saying it's good code (which, of course, no-one ever says anyway)
09:50:07 <int-e> (at least the encoding is based on a sane pairing function, not on prime powers)
09:51:42 <Taneb> int-e, I'd only use prime powers if I wanted a multiset
09:51:50 <Taneb> Rather than a bintree
09:51:59 <b_jonas> internet of houses? is that like geocities?
09:52:01 <int-e> Taneb: you could use mpz_bin_ui though
09:52:48 <b_jonas> int-e: it's not just the sane pairing function that matters, but also that you encode a sane expression tree instead of some flat parenthisized list
09:52:49 <olsner> might be nice to rewrite that thing in like haskell (or any language that has actual bignum support) so that it's possible to read it
09:53:10 <Taneb> olsner, it's actually a translation from Haskell
09:54:06 <int-e> olsner: even libgmp++ helps
09:54:16 <Taneb> int-e, instead of computing the triangle numbers manually? That's a thought
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10:20:53 <int-e> @unlambda `` ``````s``s`ksk``skk``s``s`ksk`s``s`ksk``s``s`ksk``skk.3.5 ri
10:20:53 <lambdabot> 3333333333333333333333333333333333333333335
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10:31:10 <shachaf> Taneb: how's the category business
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10:40:25 <int-e> Taneb: it's funny how \n f. n (\x. f (z f x)) = S B (S B), where B = \x y z. x (y z).
10:44:33 <int-e> > iterate (\n -> n*(n+1)) 2 !! 2
10:47:16 <int-e> Taneb: sorry, the 'z' in there is supposed to be an 'n'.
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11:54:18 <fizzie> `olist (958) not that it will help any
12:00:46 <olsner> didn't help me, but I don't mind that
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16:49:25 <zzo38> Could you help to improve the tetx of my Dungeons&Dragons recording story?
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17:23:32 <zzo38> Someone recently thought that the templating language where loops involve SQL SELECT queries was just a dream. Well, it isn't; it is real.
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17:51:24 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes it is true.
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17:54:19 <zzo38> b_jonas: This one http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
17:56:16 <zzo38> Do you know this one?
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18:02:06 <zzo38> Now hopefully you do!
18:02:11 <zzo38> Do you play any Dungeons&Dragons game?
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18:09:32 <zzo38> Do you know anything about TeX? Do you know something about writing the story?
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18:14:26 <b_jonas> I know a little about TeX. not much.
18:14:39 <b_jonas> enough to know why it's great as an esolang
18:15:45 <zzo38> This file is printed using TeX, too, you can see how it works if you look, perhaps.
18:18:44 <zzo38> Do you like this story though?
18:20:15 <TieSoul> Is there any idea when the server will be up again?
18:21:39 <zzo38> Someone has once written a BASIC interpreter in TeX.
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18:26:26 <zzo38> I have also written a program in TeX for chess, and another program which can calculate when is Easter.
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18:27:09 <douglass_> I had to have LaTeX add two numbers together once...
18:28:15 <zzo38> douglass_: There is the \advance command to add a number in TeX.
18:29:36 <nooodl> "<quintopia> so tacuit is correct" <- i would say tacebat
18:34:39 <douglass_> it did eventually work; I don't recall which command I used. I just remember it being a pain in the ass to add one register to another as opposed to adding a fixed number to a single register.
18:41:34 <zzo38> It isn't; using \advance you can easily add one register to another.
18:44:25 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, but it may get worse if you insist on using the crazy abstractions in LaTeX
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18:45:44 <zzo38> b_jonas: Ah, OK, although I just use Plain TeX and don't need to worry about abstractions
18:46:30 <b_jonas> it's just that douglass_ mentioned LaTeX specifically
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18:47:31 <zzo38> Unless \advance is redefined you can probably still use it on normal \count registers at least
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19:32:42 <Phantom_Hoover> i wonder if golly has any decent reversible CAs built in
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19:51:28 <zzo38> Do regular expressions define all haltable NFAs?
19:54:49 <zzo38> I mean ones that are not guaranteed to not halt.
19:55:39 <Melvar> Don’t NFAs always halt?
19:56:37 <Bicyclidine> no, right, you could have a loop, it's just that you could determine that beforehand.
19:56:59 <zzo38> I think it can be possible to make an infinite loop that never want any input, or you can get an error (which doesn't count as halting), or have infinite input, etc
19:57:39 <Melvar> You can only have a non-consuming loop if you use ε-NFAs …?
19:58:32 <zzo38> The NFAs in this book allow one line to have a lambda on it to not consume input.
19:59:44 <Melvar> Then I guess that book has a definition of NFA that I don’t know, so I don’t think I can help.
20:00:31 <zzo38> It also describes DFA, which means that are no lambdas and furthermore that each possible input symbol has a unique successor state to each state.
20:02:57 <fizzie> The lambda is the same as the epsilon.
20:03:18 <olsner> I think you can do the normal NFA-to-DFA conversion even if there are epsilon transitions, basically merging all states reachable via epsilon transitions
20:03:42 <zzo38> Yes this book describe exactly how you do that, in fact.
20:03:45 <Melvar> Indeed. Any ε-NFA is convertible into an NFA is convertible into a DFA.
20:03:50 <olsner> which means they are regexps
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22:14:07 <oerjan> shachaf: fizzie already did that
22:14:23 <oerjan> well, i guess he didn't list the names
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22:17:46 <oerjan> <TieSoul> Is there any idea when the server will be up again? <-- possibly when Gregor stops being idle for > 8 days. of course no one has any idea when that happens.
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23:31:20 <oerjan> @check \x -> fromRational (toRational x) == (x :: Double)
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23:45:00 <elliott> > toRational (1/0::Double)
23:45:05 <elliott> > toRational (1/0::Double)
23:45:06 <lambdabot> 1797693134862315907729305190789024733617976978942306572734300811577326758055...
23:45:14 <elliott> > fromRational (toRational (1/0::Double))
23:45:51 <myname> so... infinity starts with 1?
23:48:33 <lambdabot> 1797693134862315907729305190789024733617976978942306572734300811577326758055...
23:49:16 <Bicyclidine> > from Rational (toRational (2^1024)::Double)
23:49:17 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor ‘Rational’
23:49:21 <Bicyclidine> > fromRational (toRational (2^1024)::Double)
23:49:23 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type ‘GHC.Real.Ratio GHC.Integer.Type.Integer’
23:49:23 <lambdabot> Actual type: GHC.Real.RationalCouldn't match type ‘GHC.Types.Double’
23:49:23 <lambdabot> with ‘GHC.Real.Ratio GHC.Integer.Type.Integer’
23:49:52 <oerjan> hint: the result of toRational isn't a Double hth
23:50:15 <Bicyclidine> > fromRational (toRational ((2^1024)::Double))
23:50:18 <elliott> oerjan: I need to fix that script, right?
23:50:43 <Bicyclidine> well, anyway i'm glad no programming language has figured out how to have numbers that aren't somehow mildly annoying yet.
23:50:50 <oerjan> elliott: put it's working perfectly hth
23:51:06 <elliott> Bicyclidine: scheme's numeric tower is okay? probably?
23:51:39 <Bicyclidine> well i mean, most of them are okay, since we use numbers all the time
23:51:49 <Bicyclidine> but then you look at the spec and it spends half the text on denoting floats
23:52:09 <Bicyclidine> i think the kernel guy complained about scheme's tower specifically but he complained about everything
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