00:01:01 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:03:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:11:08 also one thing i realized when thinking about this; instead of thinking of d as an annoying special case it may be worthwhile to expand its special treatment to _more_ functions: continuations, e (which is really just a continuation as mentioned above) and i all can be implemented more efficiently that way. 00:12:40 e.g. when evaluating ` you can throw away the outer continuation and replace it by _before_ evaluating the expression. 00:16:41 [wiki] [[Dc]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40188&oldid=40184 * Oerjan * (+0) the page title isn't a section, also bold 00:17:04 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:17:46 i think this, if we have it at all, should go under the recent idea of a Category:Honorable, together with at least bancstar 00:17:51 huh, I'm reading MSVC's list of compiler-dependent behaviour 00:18:08 and it lists unions as being "unreliable" for type-punning 00:18:31 compared to gcc, which says that it reinterprets the bit patterns 00:18:37 I wonder if it does some sort of union behaviour I don't know odf 00:18:38 *of 00:19:02 this also implies that two fields of the same type aren't interchangeable in MSVC, at least officially 00:22:15 btw, I like the current Esolang description of d 00:22:22 it makes it pretty clear how to implement it 00:22:36 d in unlambda? 00:23:10 yes 00:23:33 * oerjan finds http://stackoverflow.com/a/252568/1088108 which says it _is_ undefined behavior 00:23:42 it's basically i that evaluates second argument before first, rather than first arg before second 00:23:49 oerjan: it's implementation-defined behaviour 00:23:53 which MSVC defines as undefined 00:28:15 ais523_: note that it is still a bit tricky because the d of the expression can result from evaluation itself, e.g. ```kdi `.*i `./i 00:28:28 !unlambda ```kdi `.*i `./i 00:28:30 No output. 00:28:36 um 00:28:52 !unlambda `` ``kdi `.*i `./i 00:28:52 ​/* 00:29:01 !unlambda `` ``kii `.*i `./i 00:29:01 ​*/ 00:29:29 you have to evaluate the function first to determine what to do with the arguments 00:29:34 yes 00:29:37 in particular, how many arguments it needs and which order to evaluate them in 00:29:55 I'm coming to the realisation that unlambda is much simpler if you interpret it as varargs rather than as curried 00:30:28 well d is the only function which doesn't evaluate its first argument before getting another one 00:30:52 !unlambda `s `.*i 00:30:52 ​* 00:31:50 oerjan: hmm right 00:32:04 didn't realise that it was visible whether S evaluated its first argument given no second argument or not 00:32:07 must be too much Haskell 00:33:36 i have in fact concluded, but never properly checked, that it is possible to check a function for equality to d without other side effects 00:34:15 (and that is the _only_ thing you can find out about a function without risking side effects) 00:34:52 hmm, can you check `d`ei for equality to d without risking the program being exited? 00:35:27 as soon as it gets any argument at all, the `ei is going to execute, so you can't apply it to anything 00:35:33 nope 00:35:53 the _argument_ gets evaluated before the `ei 00:36:09 and it can raise a continuation so that never happens 00:36:12 ah right 00:36:16 whereas `ei would exit the program immediately 00:36:22 but you have no way to pass it to your d-checking function 00:36:44 well by function i mean an already evaluated function, not an expression. 00:37:27 `ei isn't already evaluated. 00:39:25 while `d`ei can be considered evaluated, since evaluating it alone has no side effects. 00:41:37 it seems i wrote my idea to use ' for already evaluated functions in the meta-notation section. so that would be 'd`ei (the second ` still remains since d freezes expressions, not just functions) 00:49:52 `./i 00:49:54 oops 00:50:44 !unlambda ``` ``s`kc ``s``s`ks ``s``s`ks k `k``si`kk `k``si`k`ki d `.ni `.yi 00:50:45 ny 00:50:53 oops 00:51:17 !unlambda ```` ``s`kc ``s``s`ks ``s``s`ks k `k``si`kk `k``si`k`ki d .n .y i 00:51:18 y 00:51:27 !unlambda ```` ``s`kc ``s``s`ks ``s``s`ks k `k``si`kk `k``si`k`ki `d`ei .n .y i 00:51:28 n 00:51:32 there you go 00:51:36 ais523_: ^ 00:54:07 right 00:54:23 and in this case, you can detect d by giving two arguments and seeing which evaluates first 00:54:35 (hand expanded from ^$f`c^$c``$f`$c k`$c`ki 00:54:38 ) 00:54:42 now I'm wondering if it's possible to write a k that doesn't evaluate its second argument at all in Unlambda 00:55:10 hm i don't think so. 00:56:30 erm the expanded part being ``s`kc ``s``s`ks ``s``s`ks k `k``si`kk `k``si`k`ki, the actual testing function returning church bools 00:58:51 the only way at all to apply a function to an argument without evaluating it is if the function is d. but how do you get `k x to be d and still contain x 01:03:55 [wiki] [[Befunk]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40189&oldid=40173 * Oerjan * (-20) /* External resources */ format 01:05:48 [wiki] [[Replacefuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40190&oldid=40170 * Oerjan * (-23) /* External resources */ format (I don't think we need subsections unless this expands greatly) 01:07:23 [wiki] [[Topsy turvy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40191&oldid=40174 * Oerjan * (-24) Doesn't need a section, and intros shouldn't start with a section heading anyway 01:09:56 [wiki] [[VIOLET]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40192&oldid=40178 * Oerjan * (+15) /* Links */ format 01:11:59 oerjan: opinions on the VIOLET code samples and copyright status? 01:12:58 oh i didn't consider that 01:18:26 best to replace them with a link, if they're readily available online 01:19:02 actually 01:19:28 i suspect the repository owner is the same as the wiki user adding them 01:20:07 i also greatly suspect ("buttech"?) this is all a joke, so that nobody but his copyright is really involved. 01:20:33 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 01:20:40 btw, the categories on VIOLET are all wrong 01:20:43 "Thematic", for instance 01:20:54 the 2014 also looks wrong, but if it's correct, the copyright is fine 01:21:05 which means that he did grant us the license implicitly when copying to the wiki. 01:21:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:21:35 as i said, i doubt there ever existed a buttech in the real 1980s. 01:22:18 *implied 01:27:51 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:30:24 * oerjan cannot quite decide whether violet counts as thematic or not. 01:35:37 do we have a way to do spoiler warnings in esolang? 01:35:56 *the wiki 01:37:00 What needds to be spolererered? 01:37:21 i thought it would be bad form to say outright that violet is a joke 01:38:07 i'm leaving a note about the license issue on the talk page, which requires mentioning that. 01:40:22 ...of course it requires a bloody extension. 01:41:40 ais523_: elliott: do you know a way to do that? 01:41:52 hm? 01:42:00 a spoiler? 01:42:09 yeah 01:42:16 you can do like or something. maybe transparent won't work there 01:42:21 hardcoding the background is a bit iffy but I guess you can. 01:42:24 then people have to select it. 01:42:30 oerjan: oh, you have CSS access 01:42:55 .spoiler { outline: 1px dotted #eee; opacity: 0 } .spoiler:hover { opacity: 1 } 01:43:02 then make a template to add or something 01:43:14 ooh, is it actually possible to type it has been since early 2012. 01:43:23 i don't think we need a template yet 01:43:30 oerjan: note that this won't work on, say, lynx. :p 01:43:40 .spoiler:before { content: 'Spoiler: '; font-weight: bold } might be good too. 01:43:59 ais523_: yeah once elliott got _actual_ antispam measures working it wasn't necessary any longer 01:46:16 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40193&oldid=37995 * Oerjan * (+140) Add a way to do a spoiler 01:49:17 hm it's not showing as a spoiler in the edit window 01:50:32 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40194&oldid=39394 * Oerjan * (-52) testing spoiler style 01:51:05 elliott: it is not working for me 01:51:19 (PS: i'm not on lynx) 01:52:40 oerjan: hmm 01:52:44 oerjan: did you remember to reset your cache? 01:52:51 or, well, force-reload 01:52:52 several times 01:52:57 you don't have to wipe the whole cache 01:53:10 well i pushed ctrl-f5 01:53:11 oerjan: try changing outline to border at least 01:53:36 i don't see any Spoiler: before it either btw 01:54:30 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40195&oldid=40193 * Oerjan * (-9) possible fix 01:55:23 still nothing. is correct? 01:56:03 and moreover, do any of _you_ see Esolang:Sandbox as something spoileriferous? 01:57:26 maybe it gets overruled by somewhere else (skins?) 01:58:19 elliott: ais523_: do you see something in Esolang:Sandbox? 02:03:41 oerjan: it looks like it would if the text hadn't been spoiled at all 02:03:49 right 02:03:57 so the css has no effect. 02:06:28 hm the dom browser tells me it becomes 02:07:27 oh 02:07:29 class="spoiler" 02:07:29 duh 02:07:41 i was just about remembering that 02:08:13 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40196&oldid=40194 * Oerjan * (+0) maybe use the right keyword 02:08:45 hm now it works, although the spoiler:before is useless as it's also hidden :P 02:10:02 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40197&oldid=40195 * Oerjan * (+9) try this again 02:10:22 hm no difference 02:10:56 set opacity: 1 on the :before 02:10:58 maybe with !important 02:11:06 and add a space 02:11:51 what space, and where do i put !important 02:11:52 might need to be   02:11:56 after Spoiler: 02:12:03 and after the value (1) 02:12:21 try "dashed" instead of dotted for the outline maybe 02:12:31 there is already a space after Spoiler: 02:13:09 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40198&oldid=40197 * Oerjan * (+17) further refinements 02:13:23 not here 02:13:43 apparently you cannot use   in the string 02:13:53 i mean, in the css code 02:15:07 the outline also only shows when hovering 02:15:58 -!- ZuuJellyBaby has changed nick to Zuu. 02:16:00 oh and the Spoiler: didn't become visible with opacity: 1 anyhow 02:16:23 although there's an obvious solution, just make that template. 02:18:05 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40199&oldid=40198 * Oerjan * (-77) simplify instead 02:19:26 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40200&oldid=40199 * Oerjan * (-26) this doesn't show until hovering anyway 02:20:19 now it's rather minimal 02:23:02 [wiki] [[Template:Spoiler]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40201 * Oerjan * (+51) let's see if this works 02:23:51 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40202&oldid=40196 * Oerjan * (-17) Jetzt mit Templaten 02:25:52 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:28:03 * oerjan spots a typo so ridiculous he just has to leave it there 02:28:41 is the wiki slow, or is my template causing it to croak? 02:30:19 the wiki is always slow these days. 02:31:35 yes, but now i've got triggered that "the universe is trying to tell you not to create this page" feeling :( 02:32:24 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40203&oldid=40200 * Ehird * (+107) 02:32:37 did something happen 02:32:42 how does that work 02:33:27 elliott: you realize you just broke my template 02:34:02 yeah, but if it works you can make the template better. 02:35:18 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40204&oldid=40203 * Ehird * (+16) 02:36:25 the inner Spoiler: is still not showing without hovering 02:36:42 I can never tell when my cache is cleared :/ 02:36:44 now at least i see an outline. 02:37:44 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40205&oldid=40204 * Ehird * (+10) 02:39:01 does that work? 02:39:37 elliott: the sandbox gives me one spoiled and one unspoiled Spoiler: prefix 02:39:37 can we remove that stupid inner Spoiler: , the template is actually handling that bit perfectly well if the CSS doesn't mess with it 02:39:41 apart from that, yes 02:40:00 oerjan: this way is better because it doesn't copy. 02:40:06 when you select the text. 02:40:14 the added Spoiler: has to be outside, though 02:40:15 not inside 02:40:28 the warning saying it's a spoiler can't sensibly be spoiled 02:40:33 or you'd have to spoil yourself to know it's a spoiler 02:40:35 elliott: i have no idea what you're talking about 02:41:23 *sigh* 02:41:23 the fact that the inner one is transparent is a bug. 02:41:23 beyond that, 02:41:23 Do Spoiler: spoilers work? 02:41:23 as you can see, the :before one does not copy when text is selected. I consider this a feature, since it is cosmetic styling. 02:41:30 (and the spoiler doesn't exactly work at all when you move to plain text.) 02:41:33 ok _now_ i see both. 02:42:09 elliott: i can assure you that IE copies the :before one just fine hth 02:42:53 well that is IE's problem 02:42:53 no other browser does it like that that I know of 02:42:53 the only difference now is that yours is inside the outline 02:44:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:44:39 -!- glogbot has joined. 02:44:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:44:42 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:45:18 it's not as broken as it was, but it's still ugly 02:45:36 [wiki] [[Template:Spoiler]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40206&oldid=40201 * Oerjan * (-15) ehird insists on putting this in the CSS 02:46:14 ais523_: how does the sandbox look now? 02:46:50 the text that's meant to be spoiled is spoiled; the "Spoiler:" prefix is always visible (this is what was wrong with an earlier version), but is /inside/ the dotted box 02:47:27 I don't insist on it. you can do it however you'd like. 02:47:36 I think the spoiler text being part of the box is better. 02:47:41 having it interrupt the text is weird. 02:47:47 s/text/prefix/ 02:47:48 ais523_: i'm having a bit trouble with your first sentence as i suspect spoiled means the opposite of how you are using it 02:47:51 (in the line before that one.) 02:48:32 oerjan: err right 02:48:32 spoiled as in it's not shown by default because it's a spoiler 02:48:32 elliott: i actually agree 02:48:32 * ais523_ mentally adds this to the list of words which are their own opposites 02:48:32 like "transparent" 02:49:19 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:51:31 [wiki] [[Talk:VIOLET]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40207 * Oerjan * (+457) Let's see if the universe will let me save this this time (Warning: SPOILER) 02:52:44 it works! 02:56:04 [wiki] [[Talk:Intolerant]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40208&oldid=40182 * Oerjan * (+45) People seem to have the strange idea these are optional 02:58:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Holy crap! I'm on fire!). 02:59:22 [wiki] [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40209&oldid=40205 * Ehird * (+245) let's try pointless fanciness given how much time and fuss this has taken up anyway 03:02:07 elliott: it doesn't look any different 03:02:23 I don't believe you. you have the old thing cached. 03:02:35 I do not think it is possible for that CCS to produce, say, a dotted border. 03:02:37 *CSS 03:03:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:04:32 fancy 03:04:58 it's updated now 03:05:05 I can only conclude that there's some sort of time lag involved 03:05:13 that does look better, anyway 03:05:20 (I used the same method to cache bypass each time) 03:08:38 yes, there does appear to be server-side caching 03:08:47 which is annoying. 03:21:55 up to this point, it hadn't even crossed my mind that someone might try to make an IDE into a social media site <-- maybe the backlash in favor of anti-social media sites is nigh 03:27:33 Someone tried to make an IDE into a social media site? 03:27:51 yes, Microsoft and Visual Studio 03:28:15 to the extent that Visual Studio Express has to be connected to the Internet every 30 days (or at least once within 30 days) to function 03:29:09 i don't think that particular fact suffices for a "social media site" 03:29:19 no, that's a consequence 03:29:27 not something that made me form the opinion 03:29:31 I pasted the actual reasons a while back 03:29:46 [20:14] If you haven't already, your next step is to get a FREE Visual Studio Online account, with Visual Studio Online you can [20:14] Create and host private source code repos in the cloud, including Git. [20:14] Keep yourself and your team on track with agile planning tools. [20:14] Invite others to collaborate on your project. [20:14] And so much more! 03:30:09 note: you need a Windows Live account to download Visual Studio in the first place 03:30:19 and then they want you to create a separate Visual Studio Online acconut 03:30:22 *account 03:34:12 the "including Git" strikes me as implying that Microsoft want to copy the success of Github somehow 03:40:12 you know: let's see if VS2012 is still available 03:40:21 that would solve half the issues with VS2013 03:53:57 -!- Donald_ET3 has joined. 03:54:30 esolangs.org seems to be down. 03:54:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:54:55 Or is it just me? 03:55:17 bah 03:55:23 it was up but slow just a while ago 03:55:33 `echo hi 03:55:34 hi 03:55:42 Can we contact an admin? 03:55:44 ok the server is not down 03:55:59 ( HackEgo is on the same server ) 03:55:59 (input):1:31: error: expected: "!!", 03:56:00 "$", "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", 03:56:00 "***", "+", "++", "-", "->", 03:56:00 ".", "/", "/=", ":+", ":-", 03:56:00 "::", ":::", ":=", "<", "<$",↵… 03:56:13 argh 03:56:56 the main admin is probably sleeping at the moment 03:57:05 Oh, okay. 03:57:07 (and the other one is even harder to get hold of) 03:57:14 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:57:28 Any clues as to what is happening right now? 03:57:48 Or is this not a recurring issue? 03:59:17 that it gets occasionally slow is recurring enough. we had a more serious longterm issue until a few days ago, but that seems to have been resolved. 03:59:34 and as long as HackEgo responds it is not entirely dead 03:59:43 `echo i'm alive! 03:59:43 i'm alive! 03:59:52 Esolang was working like half an hour ago 04:00:03 but yes, now seems to be down 04:00:19 When I ping the URL, it comes back from "c1105889-5122.cloudatcost.com". So, it must be hosted by someone else? 04:00:26 make it more like one hourr 04:00:37 Donald_ET3: pretty much all websites are hosted on virtual servers nowadays 04:00:42 Oh. 04:00:43 and for most people, that implies a hosting company 04:01:01 `uptime 04:01:08 eep 04:01:14 oerjan: can that seriously escape the sandbox? 04:01:19 `echo still there? 04:01:19 still there? 04:01:28 So, is it the hosting company's fault? 04:01:34 ais523_: i just wanted to see if it was still there 04:01:39 right 04:01:50 wait 04:02:06 if it said anything useful 04:02:11 stupid echoing brain 04:02:23 No output. 04:02:27 Donald_ET3: we don't know. 04:02:38 i think that was the `uptime finally responding 04:02:38 What is the significance of "`echo" 04:02:49 HackEgo runs shell commands 04:02:53 Oh. 04:02:53 Donald_ET3: just that it's the simplest way to get HackEgo to confirm it's working 04:02:56 and "echo" is one of the simplest shell commands, and thus the most reliable 04:03:03 `yes 04:03:29 it may seem that HackEgo is also very slow now, for anything more complicated than echo 04:03:48 `ping -c 1 esolangs.org 04:04:01 It doesn't work. :/ 04:04:03 pong 04:04:04 y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 04:04:12 What? 04:04:15 network commands have blacklists or whatever 04:04:18 `ping 04:04:19 pong 04:04:24 not network ping, obviously 04:04:32 heh 04:04:47 Donald_ET3: yeah outgoing connections from the bot are censored 04:04:52 Oh. 04:05:40 `ls 04:05:54 ​:-( \ 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ moop.txt \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ unpa \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 04:06:18 Interesting. 04:06:38 the root directory gets full of all sorts of random things 04:06:43 also, HackEgo has a bit weird syntax. you need to use `run if you want commands with more than one parameter or shell features 04:07:13 i try to clean up occasionally. it's been worse. 04:07:27 Okay 04:07:40 `run for x in `seq 1 5`; do quote; done 04:07:46 1084) btw, ^v, what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh? <^v> 300 and USA nice to see that ^v is keeping with the spirit of the channel by providing completely useless answers to the question. \ 284) o.O There's a birth defect which results in the formation of a cloaca. It's cal 04:08:22 hmm, the shell-feature version of the 5-`quote doesn't seem quite as effective 04:08:44 line length limits do tend to do that 04:09:10 <^v> >_> 04:09:22 `quote 284 04:09:22 284) o.O There's a birth defect which results in the formation of a cloaca. It's called "not being a mammal" :P 04:09:24 ^_v 04:09:28 oh, boring. 04:09:37 ^v: so is your approximate body weigh still USA? 04:09:58 <^v> oerjan, i legidamately dont remember saying that 04:10:23 OKAY 04:10:26 It's the same for me with that one quote 04:10:40 i cannot disprove it either since HackEgo lost access to the logs 04:10:52 <^v> sounds familiarish 04:10:57 <^v> <_> 04:10:58 <^v> but idk 04:11:11 <^v> might have been years ago 04:11:21 `quote 04:11:22 692) fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used 04:11:24 `quote 04:11:25 652) A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. 04:11:26 `quote 04:11:30 141) i like to imagine their mangled limbs. 04:11:38 wow, this is a particularly bad set of quotes 04:11:58 I'd be in favour of deleting them all but 1084 04:12:36 652 is good 04:12:54 I say "good" 04:12:58 all the quotes are terrible, and should be deleted. 04:13:16 i believe custom is you can only delete one, hth 04:13:25 I know 04:13:47 141 is probably the worst 04:13:58 even if I had to read 692 twice before it became vaguely funny 04:14:05 yeah this alise was a horrible person 04:14:17 and only then the only amusement value is that it's possible to misinterpret fungot as insulting elliott, which isn't actually that funny 04:14:18 ais523_: so the cycle is. in emms.el a few 04:14:40 oerjan: then let's get deleting quickly. 04:14:57 `delquote 141 04:15:00 ​*poof* i like to imagine their mangled limbs. 04:15:47 i'm sure there's some hilarious context that we've all forgotten. 04:16:08 BTW, esolangs.org seems to be back up. 04:16:20 huzzah! 04:18:17 maybe it was doing some maintenance script 04:25:11 -!- Donald_ET3 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 04:41:42 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:41:57 eek 04:42:34 it's dead again 04:46:04 -!- HackEgo has joined. 04:51:16 `hug HackEgo 04:51:24 now what. 04:51:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hug: not found 05:08:33 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:08:46 -!- ^v has joined. 05:48:34 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 05:52:31 Not the fastest VPS around. 06:01:40 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:04:27 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:10:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: But is it the highest?). 06:14:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:23:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 06:29:10 -!- copumpkin has quit. 06:32:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:35:57 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:51:08 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:31:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:35:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:36:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:36:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:08:55 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 09:14:04 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:21:47 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 09:22:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:22:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 09:26:59 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:11:23 -!- boily has joined. 10:17:14 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:22:45 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:45:05 @massages-loud 10:45:05 oerjan said 12h 16m 52s ago: i'd like to recommend fueue. it _has_ somewhat traditional arithmetic, and *still* screws your mind. 10:45:05 oerjan said 12h 15m 52s ago: as in, programming in fueue starts at the point where you already master underload. 10:46:08 @tell oerjan it sounds like a wonderful source of pain. I'll have to try to write something in it. 10:46:09 Consider it noted. 10:46:46 @tell oerjan `delquote 141 ← would you like me to unmangle the PDF too? 10:46:47 Consider it noted. 10:49:34 @tell oerjan re. fueue: uhm. well. uuuuh... some other day perhaps. ow. 10:49:35 Consider it noted. 10:52:48 I keep mentally confusing Fueue and Fugue. 10:55:39 boily, if you have any questions about Fueue, don't ask me, I only wrote the language 10:57:44 fizzie: I currently am in a post-confused state. 10:58:06 "post-confused state" hehe 10:58:06 Taneb: same with aubergine. I wrote it, but other understood it. 10:58:11 s/r\b/rs/ 11:00:29 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:06:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TESSELATED CHICKEN). 11:22:28 -!- yorick has joined. 11:41:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:50:14 -!- TieSoul has joined. 11:52:44 hey 12:00:09 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:01:16 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:02:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:04:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:23:40 Does this count as an esolang? http://spel.sourceforge.net/info/spel.html 12:26:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:34:21 -!- mhi^ has joined. 12:34:26 -!- mhi^ has quit (Changing host). 12:34:27 -!- mhi^ has joined. 13:14:53 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:16:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 13:30:54 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:43:03 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:35:02 -!- conehead has joined. 15:11:44 -!- TieSoul has joined. 15:16:41 hey guys 15:32:23 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:42:12 Hi, TieSoul 15:55:11 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:02:37 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:11:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:11:46 -!- ^v has joined. 16:21:27 [wiki] [[Nest]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40212&oldid=34611 * 199.116.52.89 * (-119) /* External resources */ 16:37:39 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:50:00 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:56:37 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:56:54 -!- mhi^ has joined. 17:01:44 -!- hektor has joined. 17:09:39 -!- adu has joined. 17:14:38 I made a kind of shell for all the languages I've implemented. Should I put it in my userpage or make a new page for it? 17:25:52 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:26:07 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 17:30:56 oh cool 17:31:22 put it on a code-sharing site 17:31:29 link to it from all the languages it supports 17:31:33 maybe we'll add more languages 17:32:39 -!- hektor has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:33:00 I'll make a GitHub for it 17:33:10 GitHub repository* 17:33:44 and I do plan on adding more languages 17:33:49 it's in Python btw 17:34:12 i have been thinking about making a universal esolang IDE/interpreter in python 17:34:32 i even went so far as making a list of all languages that already have extant python interps 17:34:36 it's on my user page 17:34:48 but i never went so far as actually starting the project ;P 17:35:01 I'm trying to work out how to tunnel ssh over http/https (to by pass a proxy at work). But it seems nginx doesn't support doing that :/ 17:35:18 And I already use nginx 17:35:24 you can add Befunk and Replacefuck to that list. 17:36:00 as well as Eitherfuck. I implemented it yesterday 17:36:25 ok 17:36:27 with [ and ] included 17:38:25 i can't find the eitherfuck wiki page 17:38:48 it's called eitherf*ck 17:38:58 and my interpreter is not on it yet 17:44:29 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 17:44:32 I'd rather the shell use interpreters I made though :P 17:45:17 in that case we'll not add code to it! 17:45:51 You can fork it if you really want to expand on it 17:46:05 can we unilaterally change the name of eitherf*ck to eitherfuck? it would make it easier to talk about and search for 17:46:40 imo eitherfu*k 17:46:55 bleh the * 17:46:59 welp gotta go 17:47:01 alternately, define the * as a shell glob 17:47:14 available names for eitherfu*k depend on your pwd 17:47:37 eith*rfuck 17:47:39 perfect 17:48:00 now we're talkin. 17:48:10 and now we're not 17:48:17 yeah we are 17:48:20 i don't need ur sass 17:48:28 take it, it's free 17:48:56 *itherfuck 17:49:24 i like that it matches zitherfuck 17:49:30 now i want to make a zitherfuck 17:49:51 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:49:54 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 17:50:54 zwitterionfuck 17:52:00 oh btw the shell is incredibly lazily made. 17:52:07 :P 17:52:08 https://github.com/TieSoul/Multilang 17:52:12 here it is though 17:52:38 there's some bugs 17:52:40 :P 17:55:06 Vorpal: can't you just run ssh on the https port? 17:55:18 or does the firewall actually check you're doing TLS properly? 17:55:42 [wiki] [[User:Quintopia]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40213&oldid=38316 * Quintopia * (+94) 17:56:03 there i added them to the list 17:56:18 nice 17:59:30 [wiki] [[Replacefuck]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40214&oldid=40190 * TieSoul * (+137) Multilang 18:00:56 [wiki] [[Befunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40215&oldid=39057 * TieSoul * (+114) Multilang 18:01:54 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:02:12 hi 18:03:03 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 18:05:39 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:06:34 What language should I implement? :P 18:06:41 eodermdrome 18:07:05 I don't understand eodermdrome too well :P 18:07:13 perfect 18:08:42 spiral 18:09:29 spiral seems really cool 18:09:32 I'll try 18:11:52 what's a deque? 18:11:56 is it like a stack? 18:14:26 TieSoul: http://esolangs.org/wiki/When 18:14:41 you should totally implement that 18:14:58 "deque" is short for double-ended queue 18:14:59 Vorpal: can't you just run ssh on the https port? <-- that used to work, but it doesn't any more 18:15:04 there's so much info on that wiki page! 18:15:07 elliott, I guess it checks that it is actually TLS data 18:15:11 [wiki] [[Spiral]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40216&oldid=38317 * Quintopia * (-3) /* Errors */ finally got annoyed by this grammar error enough to fix it 18:15:19 it's basically like a stack or a queue or whatever, except you can push and pop from any side 18:15:38 oh well that's easy to implement. 18:15:41 :P 18:15:55 elliott, so :/ 18:16:16 TieSoul: the author's description of the language in the linked mailing list is rather straightforward 18:16:28 elliott, it is worth trying again I guess though, on my VPS instead of my home server. Could be it blacklisted connecting to dynamic ips perhaps? I don't know 18:17:32 elliott, I wonder if a plain http proxy will work. If it does, I could run apache on port 80 (my current setup just serves a redirect to https anyway) and have it redirect to nginx except for the proxy 18:17:33 it's basically like a "calculator" of sorts, that is, every line in a program is an expression to be interpreted (like "3 + 4 * 5", or "if a = 0 then 3 else 4"), except there's this cool "when" operator 18:18:40 also the author says his implementation will be available soon and then went silent for over a decade :) 18:19:56 Hm there is this, but the link to the tutorial is dead. Also it doesn't specify if it uses CONNECT. Probably not? https://github.com/shawnl/nginx-ssh 18:20:55 -!- hektor has joined. 18:21:26 quintopia? 18:21:49 Are the integers in spiral signed or unsigned? 18:25:13 And what happens if the ":" instruction gets a char with unicode value > 255/256? 18:25:23 Vorpal: could you just do ssh over tls? 18:25:40 with like, stunnel or whatever 18:26:18 elliott: Bonus benefit: you can call it twice as secure. 18:26:30 yes :/ 18:26:34 telnet over tls 18:26:40 client certificates, woo 18:26:58 use a javascript web shell that uses XMLHttpRequest to do ssh 18:31:38 TieSoul? 18:31:52 TieSoul: where can I try out our shell? 18:32:16 The python code is downloadable at https://github.com/TieSoul/Multilang 18:32:22 TieSoul: everything is bytes 18:32:31 elliott, possibly. I'll try it at least. 18:32:32 TieSoul: unicode is unsupported 18:32:47 elliott, not sure stunnel will work though, I suspect spdy won't work. 18:32:51 TieSoul: but if you want to make it something else, feel free. that's unspecified in the spec 18:32:57 Vorpal: I mean, you'd have to MITM the connection to determine it's http encapsulated in the TLS, right? 18:33:02 Unless you can do spdy non-encrypted internally 18:33:09 elliott, indeed that is the issue 18:33:17 so they probably don't. 18:33:27 so you can put ssh in it instead. 18:33:35 okay, I guess firewalls are MITMs by definition. but still. 18:33:47 Sure 18:33:50 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:33:53 Koen_: "our" shell? :P 18:33:56 elliott, well stunnel to sslh to nginx|ssh would work then 18:34:01 your! 18:34:07 Vorpal: why involve nginx? 18:34:08 typing is hard 18:34:11 it is 18:34:14 elliott, I still need a proper web server :P 18:34:30 elliott, For, you know, web traffic 18:34:32 Vorpal: oh, is the port actually filtered? 18:34:37 or can you just run ssh-over-tls on some other port 18:34:46 You know, I know someone named Koen irl, and he seems like the kind of person to be interested in esolangs :P 18:34:52 You're probably not him though 18:34:58 elliott, I want to serve https as well as being able to sneak in ssh over that port basically 18:35:11 I'm not actually named Koen so we're Kool 18:35:15 Vorpal: why not run ssh-over-tls on port 1234567891011 and http-over-tls on port 443 or whatever it is 18:35:18 if that works 18:35:21 ah cool 18:35:31 elliott, can't connect to any port but 80 and 443 out 18:35:34 okay. 18:35:40 Can't connect to 8080 for example 18:35:45 run ssh-over-tls on port 80 then :P 18:36:11 That might work. Not sure if it allows tls over port 80 18:36:28 Vorpal: http://www.agroman.net/corkscrew/ https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Tunneling_SSH_through_HTTP_proxies_using_HTTP_Connect 18:36:32 And I could easily set up a simple daemon to detect real http and redirect it 18:36:36 http://dag.wiee.rs/howto/ssh-http-tunneling/ 18:36:51 http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/using-corkscrew-to-tunnel-ssh-over-http/ 18:37:07 oh btw Koen_ if you didn't see, shell source is here: https://github.com/TieSoul/Multilang 18:37:13 elliott, I looked into some of this yes. The problem is that nginx doesn't support forward proxying (that is HTTP CONNECT) 18:37:18 You need python to run it though 18:37:18 yup I guessed that 18:37:19 Apache does 18:37:24 But urgh 18:37:39 Vorpal: you could run varnish or something in front of nginx 18:37:51 but: 18:37:51 Tip: If your proxy does not support the HTTP Connect method, see HTTP Tunneling. 18:38:04 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HTTP_Tunneling 18:38:39 openvpn seems to support tunneling over http, so maybe you could just use that and then use ssh directly inside the VPN. 18:39:07 Hm 18:39:28 httptunnel + proxying through nginx looks like it should work though. 18:39:49 Hm perhaps 18:40:32 elliott, So nginx is the public facing web server, reverse proxying to httptunnel on some specific url? 18:40:37 Vorpal: btw, how about getting another job? 18:40:45 yes, something like that presumably 18:40:51 Eh, it pays well and isn't too bad usually 18:41:13 maybe you could just ask them to allow ssh on port 22 :) 18:41:48 I believe that has been tried before. No luck 18:42:33 github's new issues page is a little disorienting 18:42:48 -!- realzies has joined. 18:50:52 I had to have some sort of a really complicated thing when IRCing from the civil service place. Fortunately I've forgotten the details. 18:51:30 fizzie, :/ 18:52:09 This was in 2002, I'm sure the software landscape looks different these days anyway. 18:59:41 elliott, Huh I wonder if you could use websockets for this. Maybe? It looks like it could be used for that 19:01:17 Well there is a node.js thing to tunnel tcp over websockets 19:01:27 I heard node.js is pretty bad though 19:02:31 -!- __^__scott__^__ has joined. 19:03:17 -!- __^__scott__^__ has left. 19:05:13 http://http-tunnel.sourceforge.net/ has a PHP-based server-side thing. 19:05:24 There are (unsurprisingly) a number of kludgy HTTP tunneling things. 19:05:37 I'm not a fan of php but okay 19:05:37 I already linked one. :p 19:06:27 The one you linked had so orange-on-black website that I couldn't figure out if it uses some particular paths for the requests so that you could easily use a nginx reverse-proxy in front of its server-side half. 19:06:31 elliott, I'm looking at the reverse proxy thing for httptunnel. Was googling for how to set up the reverse proxy thing... 19:06:39 And stumbled upon websockets 19:06:44 and then I went off on a tangent 19:06:47 the one I linked was an arch linux wikipedia page. 19:06:50 ... 19:06:51 s/pedia// 19:07:34 Well, I mean, the home page of the actual program. 19:08:05 Since the Arch page just says "run hts and htc" with no comments on what you should do if you want also a regular HTTP server at that port. 19:08:36 fizzie, indeed. But I think a reverse proxy from nginx might work. 19:09:20 Assuming it isn't doing anything silly, like buffering 19:09:47 I think it does that by default, yes. 19:09:50 You can turn it off. 19:10:00 Hm, can't find how though 19:10:00 See http://nginx.com/resources/admin-guide/nginx-reverse-proxy/ "Configuring Buffers". 19:10:16 Oh okay, I was looking at the module reference, silly me 19:12:25 Now I'm wondering if I can do this over https. Maybe? Can I do it in a sub-path? Who knows. 19:13:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:14:31 alright 19:14:33 Hm guess I can't specify a http path 19:14:37 new version of my shell :D 19:14:41 I added Random 19:14:41 That sucks 19:16:12 http://http-tunnel.sourceforge.net/ has a PHP-based server-side thing. <-- there is a stand-alone perl thing too, could maybe proxy to that and avoid php 19:16:49 -!- hektor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:04 -!- hektor has joined. 19:17:36 Hi there 19:17:42 I just finished writing the wiki page for my new language 19:17:47 [wiki] [[Logique]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40217 * Hektor * (+2490) Created the page for Logique 19:20:10 ugh I messed up the link for the interpreter 19:21:19 [wiki] [[Logique]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40218&oldid=40217 * Hektor * (-1) Fixed a link 19:23:57 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:32:43 [wiki] [[Spiral]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40219&oldid=40216 * Quintopia * (-18) /* Self-intersecting Code */ 19:34:32 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:35:07 fizzie, actually this one is the only one I found so far that allows using a specific path on the server: https://www.npmjs.org/package/wstunnel 19:35:32 well maybe the php one before did, but I tried the perl variant of it, and it didn't work properly in a quick local test. So no 19:36:57 Doesn't seem to support non-transparent proxy from the client tool though 19:36:59 Sigh 19:37:15 Vorpal: you can just proxy the path with nginx...? 19:37:29 or a subdomain even 19:37:35 elliott, yes but obviously the client need to be able to connect to that path 19:37:48 I'm not sure I follow. 19:38:19 elliott, i.e. Some clients (like for GNU httptunnel) only allows you to connect to webserver:port, not webserver:port/myproxy 19:38:26 ah. subdomain then :) 19:38:41 elliott, yes, that would work, as long as they send those virtual host headers 19:38:49 For https it would need SNI too 19:39:03 So I'm looking at which tools send vhost headers 19:39:03 do you have ipv6 at work 19:39:08 elliott, nope. :( 19:39:11 you don't need https if you're tunneling ssh 19:39:19 Vorpal: if you had multiple ipv4s it'd be easy :p 19:39:29 elliott, yes I could get that, but I think it costs money from linode 19:39:44 Lets see 19:39:59 Vorpal: clearly host it on your home computer and tunnel ssh through ssh 19:40:17 Well okay, that could work. Hm 19:41:12 The only potential issue is if the home computer is turned off. Which happens. I generally don't leave it on if there is expected to be thunderstorms 19:41:20 But I guess I would have to live without those days 19:41:27 Vorpal: how about use tor? they have bridges over HTTP. 19:41:31 and then just use ssh as normal. 19:41:36 I'm actually kinda half-serious. 19:41:56 Hm. That would work. But wouldn't it be super-slow? 19:42:12 tor should be fast enough for ssh, it's not *that* slow. you could use mosh too 19:42:25 tor is slow for, like, large downloads, it's actually not that bad in terms of latency and stuff IMO 19:43:10 elliott, mosh is udp. Good luck with that in this case 19:43:20 oh, right, tor is tcp-only 19:43:34 Also good luck with udp through the company firewall/proxy 19:43:43 well, you could do UDP over TCP :3 19:43:51 but yeah. 19:44:08 That sounds ridiculous, but so does all of this really 19:44:16 Basically everything out is blocked except port 80 and 443 through the proxy. 19:44:31 Anyway doing proxytunnel.sourceforge.net to home might work. 19:44:40 I honestly find Tor surprisingly fast. sometimes I open the tor browser bundle to bypass a paywall or whatever and accidentally end up doing web browsing in it and I notice the noscript more than the speed 19:44:55 Heh 19:44:56 tor lets you pass paywalls? 19:45:15 Bicyclidine, some of them is like x free articles / month 19:45:17 or such 19:45:22 oh, those. 19:45:26 yeah, that kinda thing. 19:45:36 elliott, clearing cookies sometimes work with those too :P 19:45:43 Like for svd.se (A swedish news paper) 19:45:44 that's more work and less cyberpunk :p 19:45:48 Hah 19:46:03 i thought you meant for something requiring pay to read at all and i was like sign me up for that shit 19:46:05 Vorpal: The major Finnish newspaper (hs.fi) has a javascript localStorage-based paywall. 19:46:18 (Incognito mode/"private browsing" works for it, though.) 19:46:23 Bicyclidine: it's true. tor turns your browser into a hacker 19:46:25 I don't think they do it on IP alone, since that would screw over people behind NAT 19:46:33 fizzie, right 19:46:39 elliott: daaaaang 19:47:01 technology sure is incredible. 19:47:06 Vorpal: I think the NAT thing would be fine 19:47:09 or should i say hacknology 19:47:11 since they probably care about home users more than anything else 19:47:27 elliott, well, some ISPs NAT nowdays 19:47:40 I don't think CGN is very widespread 19:47:52 What does CGN mean? 19:47:59 carrier-grade NAT 19:48:07 the horrifying endgame of IPv4 exhaustion 19:48:33 I wish we had nice network infrastructure. 19:48:35 I heard of that happening in Sweden (Banhoff maybe? I forgot which one), but if you called them and asked for a public IP they would just give you one 19:48:42 hm, you'd think my university IT would be able to do IPv6 19:48:44 oh well i guess 19:48:52 Bicyclidine: You'd think the same about ours, but... 19:49:33 My ISP's IRC server had acquired an AAAA record a few days ago (noticed because it started giving an "unauthorized connection" error, thanks to the IPv6 tunnel), so perhaps that's a sign they're going to roll it out to customers in the next decade or so? 19:51:06 it'd be nice if routing wasn't a hard problem. :/ 19:51:54 "NP-Completeness of ad hoc multicast routing problems" boo yah 19:51:56 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 19:52:48 I wonder if I could reverse proxy to proxytunnel 19:53:07 Or is that just a client? 19:53:18 Yeah looks like it 19:53:39 Vorpal: if you're doing it to your home computer, you can just use stunnel + ssh 19:53:42 assuming any TLS works 19:53:47 since you don't need a web browser there 19:53:55 elliott, right. Worth a try 19:59:38 what language should I implement next? I'm making a mega-interpreter/shell for esolangs :P 20:00:51 I already have Befunge, Brainfuck, Random, Replacefuck, Eitherfuck. 20:01:12 Eodermdrome, naturally. 20:01:14 try When 20:01:27 fizzie. 20:01:35 I am not going to implement Eodermdrome 20:01:36 :P 20:01:46 TieSoul, befunge-98? 20:01:49 Well, someone should. 20:02:01 oh well Befunge-98 is the version of Befunge implemented 20:02:16 TieSoul, you already done befunge-98? 20:02:20 What!? 20:02:36 and Koen_, I'm not comfortable trying to implement an imperative language yet. 20:02:52 it's definitely not an imperative language 20:03:00 ? 20:03:06 everything just's expression 20:03:16 so I'd call it functional 20:03:19 I must have the wrong definition of imperative in my head 20:03:26 :P 20:03:36 brainfuck is imperative :) 20:03:44 oh 20:03:45 yeah 20:03:48 then, definitely 20:04:09 and yes Vorpal I already did Befunge-98 20:04:25 Not really that hard 20:04:33 Is it Mycology-clean, though? 20:04:37 no. 20:04:48 Well, then you have some work to do. 20:04:49 it goes into an infinite loop at one point and I can't figure out why 20:05:03 TieSoul, well then it isn't properly working 20:05:07 the 'y' instruction gives wrong info sometimes and I can't figure out why 20:05:24 the 'u' instruction works fine, but Mycology says it doesn't work and I can't figure out why 20:05:36 Mycology is probably right 20:05:52 I have written two implementations of befunge-98 (cfunge and efunge) 20:06:02 And I found that most of the time mycology was right, and I wasn't 20:06:30 TieSoul, you will simply have to add some debug printing to discover the issue. Probably it is testing some edge case 20:06:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:07:02 so mycology says "BAD: form feed reflects" and then gets stuck in an infinite loop. 20:07:23 I have tried fixing it 20:07:25 to no avail 20:07:27 Well form feed shouldn't reflect 20:07:46 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:07:49 Wait, what should form feed do in befunge? As opposed to trefunge 20:07:59 not exist at all 20:08:02 Let me check what befunge does 20:08:47 TieSoul, cfunge ignores it while loading the file 20:08:57 yeah 20:09:01 I did that 20:09:03 TieSoul, as in, it is as if it wasn't there 20:09:09 but then the problem wasn't fixed 20:09:14 Wait 20:09:20 Hm 20:09:25 Nope, it is ignored 20:09:37 so I made it reflect again for some reason 20:09:41 i don't remember why 20:10:00 mycology is probably correct, but the cause of the issue might not be what it says. The feedback from it isn't always the best. 20:10:10 also, it says "u with zero count does something" 20:10:12 but it doesn't 20:10:19 it pops something and then continues on 20:10:21 :S 20:10:30 Are you sure? Write your own test program? 20:10:45 I'm pretty sure I've tested it 20:10:50 and redownloaded Mycology 20:10:55 and tested it again 20:11:09 case 'u': 20:11:09 if (ip->stackstack->current == 0) { 20:11:09 ip_reverse(ip); 20:11:09 } else { 20:11:09 funge_cell count; 20:11:10 count = stack_pop(ip->stack); 20:11:14 stackstack_transfer(count, 20:11:16 ip->stackstack->stacks[ip->stackstack->current], 20:11:18 ip->stackstack->stacks[ip->stackstack->current - 1]); 20:11:20 } 20:11:22 break; 20:11:34 That is what I do 20:12:02 Does that help at all? 20:12:08 I'm not sure you can say as a hard-and-fast rule that reflecting on a form feed is against the spec. 20:12:18 my code is in python 20:12:26 fizzie, I remember arguing with Deewiant about that ages ago 20:12:30 I'll paste it here though 20:12:41 That or use a pastebin if it is long 20:12:55 elif char == 'u': 20:12:59 if len(stackstack) > 1: 20:13:05 a = pop() 20:13:06 fizzie, iirc since \n is ignored in unefunge FF should be ignored in befunge (and unefunge) 20:13:11 if a > 0: 20:13:17 for i in range(a): 20:13:22 push(stackstack[-2].pop() if stackstack[-2] != [] else 0) 20:13:28 elif a < 0: 20:13:34 for i in range(abs(a)): 20:13:41 stackstack[-2].append(pop()) 20:13:43 pastebin, I can't read that without indentation :P 20:13:49 alright 20:13:52 Vorpal: I guess that's reasonable, but it's not explicitly said. 20:14:06 fizzie, right. I do not remember the details. Search the logs? 20:14:33 I'm not sure I care that much, since it is quite reasonable. 20:14:48 http://bpaste.net/show/517546/ 20:15:05 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 20:15:13 I mean, the part about ignoring end-of-life markers in Unefunge is explicit. 20:15:25 (The part about generalizing that to form feed is not.) 20:15:36 End-of-line. 20:16:00 I don't want to see any end-of-life markers in my source code. 20:16:08 TieSoul, and it said what didn't work? 20:16:14 zero count 20:16:18 it said it did something 20:16:21 Hm 20:16:25 it also said "Can't test negative count" 20:16:31 TieSoul, zero count or zero stack stacks? 20:16:39 count 20:16:53 and also that u with positive count transfers incorrectly 20:17:03 GOOD: u reflects when stack stack has only one stack 20:17:03 GOOD: u with zero count does nothing 20:17:03 GOOD: u with a positive count transfers cells correctly 20:17:03 GOOD: u with a negative count transfers cells correctly 20:17:08 Is what cfunge prints 20:17:16 Hm 20:17:32 GOOD: u reflects when stack stack has only one stack BAD: u with zero count does something BAD: u with a positive count transfers cells incorrectly Can't test negative. WARNING: attempted recovery of stack stack, situation may be corrupt 20:18:41 oh also, with y, it says that stack sizes are '[ 2463]'. Is that right? 20:18:50 Probably not? 20:19:11 TieSoul, what might happen is that some other instruction used in that test has a bug and then mycology detects that the stack stack isn't correct 20:19:20 But only as a result of something else going wrong 20:19:24 That happened a few times to me 20:19:31 And it is indeed a pain to debug 20:19:47 only three other BADs before that: 20:19:49 BAD: 101-{} doesn't leave stack top as 0 and next as 1 BAD: fedcba0{05-} doesn't leave 15 on stack 20:19:50 and 20:19:55 BAD: 'vs^ goes down 20:20:13 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:20:14 You should fix the first bad first, since mycology tries to test each instruction before it uses it for other tests 20:20:14 should 's' skip over the next instruction? 20:20:34 Lets see 20:20:46 case 's': 20:20:46 ip_forward(ip); 20:20:46 fungespace_set(stack_pop(ip->stack), &ip->position); 20:20:46 break; 20:20:47 Yes 20:20:53 huh 20:20:58 I must have read right over that 20:21:35 Well what I do is step forward, set the value to the current position, and then the automatic step at the end happens 20:21:43 Even if your s does not skip, you'd expect 'vs^ to go up and not down. 20:21:59 fizzie, depends on the direction it is going 20:22:27 Well, if it's coming from the left, it'd go up in all cases. 20:22:31 Yes 20:22:33 okay I fixed the "s" BAD 20:22:33 Er, right. 20:22:52 and no, it skips right over the ^ 20:23:05 Maybe it is just incorrectly worded then? 20:23:12 What about the 101-{} thing? 20:23:19 I have no idea, honestly 20:23:22 Should definitely fix that before trying to fix u 20:23:29 That is probably what messes up u 20:23:38 I'll paste my "{" and "}" code 20:23:48 I remember seeing 101-{} error ages ago too 20:24:14 http://bpaste.net/show/g8vOrj4CJGQvtVl66OS9/ 20:24:31 TieSoul, there is a section in the mycology readme.txt on 101-{} failures 20:24:38 Have you checked that? 20:24:41 no 20:24:58 May be worth a try 20:26:14 I assume there is some debugger for python you can check what is going on internally with? 20:26:35 Not that I know of, honestly 20:27:07 I used the pycharm IDE, but I haven't really used the debugger it has 20:27:20 TieSoul: You don't seem to be pushing the storeoffset on the SOSS if the count is negative. 20:27:35 oh. 20:27:38 that's bad 20:27:51 (Lines 8-9 of your paste are only executed if a > 0.) 20:28:14 okay fixed that 20:28:17 that was pretty bad 20:28:29 and I pushed the zeroes onto the TOSS fsr 20:28:38 Here is my stack stack code. Since it is C it is 90% memory management though. http://sprunge.us/dUFe 20:28:57 It is quite a complicated area of cfunge 20:29:06 Probably only beaten by the funge-space code really 20:29:11 okay well 101-{} is fixed 20:29:18 BAD: fedcba0{05-} doesn't leave 15 on stack 20:29:22 is still there 20:29:28 lemme check my "}" code 20:30:38 erm 20:30:53 there seems to be nothing wrong with my "}" code for negative values 20:31:00 fungot never has a stack stack larger than one stack during its execution. 20:31:00 fizzie: the jungle? where is syntax the user can, in fact, let me know 20:31:01 that should work correctly 20:31:10 TieSoul, Check the { code? 20:31:29 So that the stack before the } is correct 20:31:30 ... 20:31:33 Also run a simple fedcba0{05-}.@ manually. 20:31:33 facepalms 20:31:40 Oh? 20:32:04 the { doesn't push the storage offset with 0 count 20:32:24 I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that code 20:32:44 You know stack-stack is probably more annoying than funge-space even. The funge-space code is mostly just a lot of stuff. Stack-stack is way more complicated per line if that makes any sense 20:33:43 well, fixing the storage offset problem seems to have fixed everything with {, } and u 20:34:07 I found stack-stack quite easy to implement. 20:34:36 BAD: 0y pushes wrong stack size 20:34:38 uh-oh 20:34:43 yeah that's bad 20:34:48 TieSoul, not surprising. With mycology always fix the first problem first. Since other errors later might be bogus after the first one. 20:34:58 I believe the readme even said so? 20:35:25 Or maybe it doesn't 20:35:47 so erm, y seems to be a bit insane on my interpreter 20:36:06 TieSoul, y is pretty insane overall :P 20:36:20 http://bpaste.net/show/hJN9ISyljyNAngWufR5w/ 20:36:31 yes it is 20:37:18 Does the handprint thing matter? 20:37:22 TieSoul, here is my y-implementation. It is somewhat optimised so it is hard to follow. https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/trunk/view/head:/src/instructions/sysinfo.c 20:37:30 because I just used an arbitrary number 20:37:40 TieSoul, it is the name of the interpreter. It is just a number 20:37:52 But generally it is interpreted as 4 letters 20:38:04 oh 20:38:23 well anyway, the handprint used is 29358 20:38:30 because well it's arbitrary :P 20:39:34 "tempstackstack = stackstack" doesn't sound like something that'd actually make any sort of copy. 20:39:45 oh 20:39:47 god dammit 20:39:53 me and my carelessness 20:40:17 well then, tempstackstack = list(stackstack) does make a copy 20:40:44 Pretty sure 20:40:49 you could also use stackstack[:] to make a copy I think 20:40:49 aaaand it doesn't fix it 20:40:51 A copy of the list of stacks, sure; but not a copy of the individual topmost stack. 20:41:08 could that #ifdef __WIN32__ be more ideological? :) 20:41:09 Your 'push' will still affect the topmost stack in both copies, I assume. 20:41:24 I never thought of that 20:41:25 ugh 20:42:04 TieSoul, here is my y output (plus a few lines after) http://sprunge.us/TAAT 20:42:24 [...] is stuff I cut obviously 20:42:47 (I'd probably just collect all the things that will be pushed into a separate [], if not trying to optimize.) 20:42:47 alright then, "tempstackstack = [list(i) for i in stackstack] ought to work 20:42:48 My handpring 1128682830 is CFUN 20:43:24 "tempstackstack = stackstack" doesn't sound like something that'd actually make any sort of copy. <-- it doesn't probably in python 20:43:30 you can use copy.deepcopy iirc 20:43:40 It uses the same mechanism as pickle internally 20:44:00 well I gtg 20:44:03 cya 20:44:06 elliott: #ifdef __WIN32__ (void)sizeof(char[-1]) 20:44:07 cya 20:45:44 <@elliott> could that #ifdef __WIN32__ be more ideological? :) <-- Maybe? Not sure 20:46:20 elliott, it could be better worded, maybe "windows=not supported" or something like that 20:46:39 -!- TieSoul-mobile has joined. 20:46:47 Bicyclidine: what. 20:46:48 Alright 20:46:51 It does work on cygwin though 20:46:54 Now I'm mobile 20:47:26 So, what does Mycology test after form feed behaviour? 20:47:27 elliott: some things do that as compile time assert failure, i guess 20:47:58 might have got it a bit wrong since i'm not good at C/programming in general 20:48:03 GOOD: null byte in string and zero compare as equal 20:48:04 GOOD: ' followed by a byte greater than 127 works 20:48:04 GOOD: form feed does not appear to exist in Funge-Space 20:48:04 GOOD: y reports shrunk bounds correctly after spacing top-left corner 20:48:04 GOOD: y reports shrunk bounds correctly after spacing right edge 20:48:05 GOOD: y reports shrunk bounds correctly after spacing bottom edge 20:48:07 TieSoul-mobile, that ^ 20:48:42 TieSoul-mobile, but again, you need to fix the first error first 20:48:47 Or you get bogus results 20:48:50 Alright so my interpreter doesn't shrink the bounds currently. 20:49:13 Bicyclidine: You got it right, and it's done in e.g. the Linux kernel. 20:49:15 TieSoul-mobile, that is probably less of an issue, as long as it just goes on after. If it gets stuck, that is an issue though 20:49:21 #define BUILD_BUG_ON(condition) ((void)sizeof(char[1 - 2*!!(condition)])) 20:49:27 TieSoul-mobile, Also the form feed could mess that up 20:49:31 Only if __OPTIMIZE__ is not set, however. 20:49:35 TieSoul-mobile, Just make it skip the FF 20:49:47 Yeah, I will 20:49:57 But I can't right now 20:50:04 Right 20:50:23 Also, is form feed what Trefunge uses to separate 2d planes? 20:50:29 TieSoul-mobile, correct 20:50:39 Ahh 20:50:44 Anyway, y is used for picking from stack later on in the program, so you need that part of y to work at the very least 20:51:02 -!- hektor has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:51:13 It says it doesn't but my function says it should. 20:51:24 I'll look into it tomorrow 20:52:00 TieSoul-mobile, easy to get that part of y wrong 20:52:45 I used stackstack[-1][-num] iirc 20:52:54 Which should work 20:52:59 I thimk 20:53:02 Think 20:53:20 I don't remember python indices syntax 20:53:43 -num gives you the numth from the top. 20:53:53 foo[-x] is like foo[len(foo)-x], i think? 20:53:59 Yes. 20:54:01 It is 20:54:14 Ah 20:54:35 fizzie: funny, when i first saw that idiom it was from much less famous code and i thought it seemed terrible 20:55:38 I've seen a couple of other static asserts. 20:55:56 Of course these days we all just use C11's _Static_assert keyword on our C11 implementations. 20:55:59 fizzie, the linux one seems complicated though 20:56:08 you're a funny man, fizzie. fun-ny. 20:56:10 Hm 20:56:30 why 1-2* why not 0- instead 20:56:42 Because 0 is dubiously legal, perhaps. 20:56:46 GCC extension and all that. 20:56:58 At least 1 and -1 are unambiguously okay and not-okay. 20:57:18 what's gcc give for sizeof(char[0])? 20:57:19 Not that the kernel is shy about GCC extensions, but wherever they cribbed it from might be. 20:57:20 Ah 20:57:39 Bicyclidine: 0, I think. 20:58:10 makes sense, i gues. 20:58:11 [23:59:50] ,cc -Wno-pedantic size_t s = sizeof (char[0]); 20:58:11 [23:59:52] fizzie: no output: s = 0 20:58:26 The manual mentions it's a "quirk of the original implementation". 20:59:07 GCC also allows an empty struct in C code, also with a size of 0. 20:59:15 (C++ allows that in general, but it has a size of 1.) 21:00:10 lol awesome 21:00:12 fizzie, I seem it used as generic arguments for templates mostly, tagging I think it is called 21:00:15 In C++ that is 21:00:56 It seems to have less uses in C, except perhaps with some sort of preprocessor (ab)use that might sometimes end up with an empty struct if, say, no features are enabled or whatnot. 21:02:38 Hm 21:05:28 I think people should use more switch statements where the body is not a block statement. 21:05:42 fizzie, any code in particular? 21:06:02 Anyway you can use switch for almost anything 21:06:10 Also mix it with traditional if/else 21:06:17 I don't have any reasonable examples, I just think it looks funny. 21:06:50 i for one only use switch for duff's device 21:06:51 fizzie, I'm not sure what you mean with "not a block statement" 21:07:06 Vorpal: Something like switch (x) case 0: if (y) { foo(); default: bar(); } for example. 21:07:29 Ah yes 21:08:55 That's something like if (!x && y) { foo(); bar(); } else if (x) { bar(); } 21:09:17 Yes 21:09:54 fizzie, also mix this with goto for extra fun 21:15:21 Regarding Duff's device, I don't understand why it's always written http://sprunge.us/aTIH?c and not http://sprunge.us/ZMDh?c instead. 21:15:40 fizzie: the former looks freakier. 21:15:56 switch-do-while is some control structure, though. 21:16:14 is "switch (foo) default: ;" valid?? 21:16:18 oh, I guess labels have to be within a block 21:16:43 No, I think that's just fine. 21:16:58 fizzie: i spent like five minutes just now trying to figure out the first, so bless you and your readable insane code 21:17:03 [wiki] [[Topsy turvy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40220&oldid=40191 * 213.93.29.31 * (+35) 21:17:08 fizzie: really. 21:17:11 [00:18:51] ,cc switch (0) default: ; 21:17:11 [00:18:53] fizzie: Success (no output). 21:17:19 jesus. 21:17:27 hell yeah. 21:17:32 switch (n) foo: { case 0: ... ; ... } 21:17:39 my mental parser really does not recognise that as C. 21:17:51 mine doesn't recognize duff's as C, so, hooray 21:17:52 switch (x) case 1: f(); is a good automatic replacement for if (x == 1) f(); in your codebase. 21:17:59 fizzie: what about switch (n) case 0: { ...; case 1: ...; } 21:18:01 @_@ 21:18:04 please tell me that's not valid 21:18:31 I think you can label a block statement, yes. 21:19:13 Also switch (x) do case 0: { ...; case 1: ...; } while (z); 21:19:40 elliott, hm do we have a bot in here that can do C? 21:19:56 !c printf("test"); 21:20:01 test 21:20:12 % cat >test.c 21:20:12 #include 21:20:12 int main(int argc, char **argv) { switch (argc) case 1: { puts("1"); case 2: puts("2"); } } 21:20:15 % clang test.c && ./a.out && ./a.out x 21:20:17 1 21:20:20 2 21:20:22 2 21:20:24 why haven't I seen this in obfuscated C before 21:20:27 I'm crying 21:20:31 !c int n = 0; switch (n) case 0: { printf("0"); case 1: printf("1"); } 21:20:33 01 21:20:37 !c int n = 1; switch (n) case 0: { printf("0"); case 1: printf("1"); } 21:20:39 1 21:20:40 elliott, yes it is valid 21:20:55 It is terrible, but it is valid 21:21:00 !c int n = 1; switch (n) case 0: printf("0"); case 1: printf("1"); 21:21:02 Does not compile. 21:21:05 Fair enough 21:21:20 !c switch (1) if (0) { case 0: puts("0"); break; case 1: puts("1"); break; } 21:21:22 1 21:21:24 [00:22:59] ,cc for (int i = 0, j = 0; i < 2; i++, j = 0) switch (i) do case 0: { putchar('a'); case 1: putchar('b'); } while (j++ < i); 21:21:25 jesus. jesus 21:21:28 [00:23:00] fizzie: abbab 21:21:30 Best code. 21:21:35 elliott, didn't you know? 21:21:36 it's okay elliott, i'm here for you 21:21:41 Hm 21:21:45 Vorpal: I didn't know you could do switch (...) case foo:, at least. 21:22:01 I knew switch and blocks were weird, but I assumed you pretty much needed a {} block after switch. 21:22:23 elliott, I think you can't start switch inside a scope that you exit before the last case though 21:22:29 But everything else is just fine 21:22:34 Pretty much 21:22:38 Sadly, a function body does need to be a compound statement. 21:22:39 !c switch (0) if ( ({ case 0: puts("0"); 1 }) ) case 1: puts("1"); 21:22:41 Does not compile. 21:22:44 :/ 21:22:47 because gcc extension? 21:23:05 elliott, sorry, what is that supposed to be? 21:23:06 using a block as an expression, huh 21:23:13 int f(int x) return x+2; would look so modern. 21:23:15 Vorpal: a gcc statement-expression 21:23:19 Oh okay 21:23:21 and, also: horrifying 21:23:23 *googles* 21:23:53 They what? In C?! 21:23:59 How modern 21:24:06 the nerve 21:24:10 Indeed! 21:24:20 You have expression statements, so why not statement expressions. 21:24:30 expression statements? 21:24:33 it's only fair 21:24:40 Most statements are expression statements. 21:24:40 % cat >test.c 21:24:40 fizzie, Do you mean normal C? 21:24:43 #include 21:24:43 Yes. 21:24:43 Right 21:24:45 int main(int argc, char **argv) { switch (argc) if ( ({ case 1: puts("1"); 1; }) ) case 2: puts("2"); } 21:24:48 % clang test.c && ./a.out && ./a.out x 21:24:51 1 21:24:53 2 21:24:56 2 21:24:58 fuck. 21:25:01 jesus. fuck 21:25:11 heh 21:25:16 this channel always finds new ways to justify my move away from CS 21:25:26 elliott, switch is basically a slightly restricted goto then? 21:25:36 That is what it seems like to me 21:25:50 can you even goto the inside of a statement expression like that normally 21:25:55 also i can't read what this code is doing, at all 21:25:56 elliott: Sadly, what you did is not legal, even if it does compile. 21:26:09 "Jumping into a statement expression with goto or using a switch statement outside the statement expression with a case or default label inside the statement expression is not permitted. Jumping into a statement expression with a computed goto (see Labels as Values) has undefined behavior. Jumping out of a statement expression is permitted, but if the statement expression is part of a larger ... 21:26:12 elliott, that I don't know. But I meant with standard C, not GCC extensions 21:26:15 ... expression then it is unspecified which other subexpressions of that expression have been evaluated except where the language definition requires certain subexpressions to be evaluated before or after the statement expression." 21:26:32 % cat >test.c 21:26:32 #include 21:26:32 int main(int argc, char **argv) { goto q; if ( ({ q: 1; }) ) puts("1"); } 21:26:32 % clang test.c && ./a.out 21:26:33 1 21:26:35 okay, yeah. 21:26:46 fizzie: right. 21:26:48 fizzie: still. 21:27:16 Perhaps clang actually allows it? 21:27:19 elliott, I wonder if there is some crazy thing you can invent by mixing switch and goto 21:27:21 not sure 21:27:26 Because I get a "error: switch jumps into statement expression" out of GCC for that. 21:27:59 proof that clang is better. 21:28:02 And the manual did make it sound like it'd be a compile-time error, except for the computed-goto case, which of course can't be. 21:28:09 fizzie: (imagine being the one to write that error message) 21:28:36 Does gcc support gettext? 21:28:46 I wonder what it would be like translating all these things 21:28:52 yes, gcc is localised 21:28:54 Like hell probably 21:29:03 it's not that many error messages. 21:29:14 Hm 21:29:22 translating a large GUI application sounds scarier 21:29:22 LC_ALL doesn't localize for me 21:29:31 Maybe I don't have Swedish installed for gcc? 21:29:54 elliott, sure, but the terminology in something like a word processor is far easier in Swedish than it is for a compiler 21:30:02 what do I even call a statement expression in Swedish? 21:31:22 I guess I don't have Swedish localisation installed huh 21:33:03 Debian packages it as gcc-X.Y-locales. 21:33:12 I don't have them installed, either; it's not done by default. 21:33:44 Heh. 21:33:49 Aah 21:33:53 They haven't managed to translate "statement expression" to Finnish. 21:34:04 http://sprunge.us/KOZX 21:34:08 coreutils isn't translated either 21:34:19 That is strange 21:34:25 It knows how to say "virhe:" but not the actual contents. 21:34:27 I expected ls --help to be localized 21:35:11 "LANGUAGE=fi ls --help" just translates the first line. 21:35:19 they probably removed the localisation from coreutils because of all those security bugs. 21:35:22 The "Usage:" one. 21:35:39 Oh, also the descriptions for --help and --version options. 21:35:55 Oh, and some others here and there. But not all options. 21:36:10 Hm 21:36:15 None for me 21:36:31 http://sprunge.us/CFTi that's just ridiculous 21:36:34 How are you testing for it? 21:36:55 (did anyone report that one?) 21:37:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:37:04 These days LC_MESSAGES/LC_ALL is overridden by LANGUAGE if set, at least. 21:37:40 Oh? 21:37:42 Why 21:38:58 fizzie, I tried LANGUAGE, LC_MESSAGES and LC_ALL 21:39:00 I don't know. Perhaps because LANGUAGE can provide a priority list instead of just a single option. 21:39:02 none of them work 21:39:03 Weird 21:39:43 Anyway, good night 21:40:26 Nights. 21:46:06 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:46:14 -!- TieSoul-mobile has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:46:39 -!- TieSoul has joined. 21:47:45 -!- boily has joined. 21:48:03 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:48:03 ~metar CYUL 21:48:04 CYUL 282100Z 36012G17KT 12SM -RA FEW010 OVC023 17/15 A2961 RMK SF1SC8 SF TR SLP027 DENSITY ALT 600FT 21:48:22 ~metar EFHK 21:48:22 EFHK 282120Z 21007KT CAVOK 24/20 Q1012 NOSIG 21:48:27 It is ridiculous. 21:48:38 nosig...nal? 21:48:38 There is +28.9°C inside here. 21:48:43 ~metar KATL 21:48:44 KATL 282052Z 30018G25KT 10SM FEW070 SCT200 31/16 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP116 CB DSNT E-SE-S-SW T03110156 57009 21:48:47 Bicyclidine: nosig-nificant. 21:48:51 oh. 21:49:09 (Changes, expected.) 21:49:10 boily: jealous 21:51:43 quintopia: what the fungot are you doing over there with a nice 31 outside you AAAAAAAAAARGH! 21:51:43 boily: and i got the patches but haven't yet used java 1.5/ 5.0, there are no loops, the fnord might want to compile 21:52:01 * boily throws a fnord 21:52:10 boily: slowly roasting alive 21:55:37 fungot: has the heat gotten to you yet? 21:55:37 olsner: yes, so i suppose not.... that'd just call lynx ( or whatever that small picture is called that appears in the source code 21:55:55 ^styles 21:55:59 ^style 21:55:59 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:56:15 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 22:07:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:09:46 wait, does the topic mean fungot also hates ops? elliott, you should be careful. 22:09:46 oerjan: " jython" at 22:10:07 what does ampersand have to do with ops? 22:11:10 oh wait 22:11:26 sorry, my brain apparently cannot distinguish @ and & today 22:11:33 :) 22:11:50 &messages- 22:11:54 WHY NO WORK 22:11:59 ?messages- 22:11:59 boily said 11h 25m 50s ago: it sounds like a wonderful source of pain. I'll have to try to write something in it. 22:11:59 boily said 11h 25m 12s ago: `delquote 141 ← would you like me to unmangle the PDF too? 22:12:00 boily said 11h 22m 24s ago: re. fueue: uhm. well. uuuuh... some other day perhaps. ow. 22:12:05 oerjan: no at, no work 22:12:19 olsner: sounds plausible 22:12:28 boily: *MWAHAHAHA* 22:12:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:13:51 I always get such a profound sense of how unfunny we are when reading wisdom.pdf. 22:13:57 what was quote 141, btw? 22:14:27 my mom thinks i'm funny, elliott. 22:14:30 elliott: it's ok, ais523 balances it out by nearly dying of laughter 22:14:45 `? bc 22:14:46 bc ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵ 22:14:53 ah 22:14:55 oerjan: ? 22:15:38 shachaf: Ada tasks remind me of actors, although there's something a bit off about them (in particular, is it possible to abstract out accepts behind procedures?) 22:15:38 elliott: haven't you seen ais523's messages about how he cannot read too many quotes at a time? 22:15:45 -!- SgeoWeb has joined. 22:15:47 And my computer is slow to send, of course. I made that Ada statement before seeing anything about wisdom.pdf 22:15:50 -!- SgeoWeb has quit (Client Quit). 22:16:02 oerjan: I admit I honestly cannot comprehend the idea of someone who finds the qdb that funny. 22:16:41 `? diet 22:16:42 People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 22:16:46 some of these are truly baffling. 22:17:41 i'll agree on that one. 22:18:05 perhaps there's a pun in there somewhere 22:18:15 there is content in the PDF. that I can ascertain. 22:18:15 no wait 22:18:31 i think the point is all the misspellings, somehow 22:18:46 there's only two misspellings. 22:19:23 `? godot 22:19:23 cf. elliott 22:19:24 i dunno, maybe the second diet is a misspelling for something that actually makes sense there 22:19:51 I would like to understand this entry. (yes, I know the play.) 22:19:53 i suppose some of those only made sense in long lost context. 22:20:10 elliott: maybe it was added during one of your long absenses 22:20:15 *c 22:20:29 `? elliott 22:20:30 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. And a lystrosaur. 22:20:47 oh i remember the lystrosaur one. because lystrosaurs are great. 22:21:40 i mean it's gibberish without context though. 22:22:32 `? lystrosaur 22:22:33 The lystrosaurs were an ancient genus of evil reptiles who successfully took over the world in the early Triassic. 22:23:17 possibly the truest entry in the wisdom. 22:24:10 can I just delete the learndb? 22:24:17 psh, if you're a moral realism 22:24:23 realist 22:24:37 elliott wrote this learn DB, and then destr 22:25:42 elliott: what do you have against lystrosaurs 22:25:57 oerjan: I have low self-esteem. 22:26:06 elliott: i wonder if you've grown up too much lately 22:26:20 I was always grumpy and cynical! 22:26:35 hm true 22:26:42 I'm probably less grumpy and cynical now than I was, like, three years ago. it's just I haven't eaten enough today. 22:26:57 food, our eternal nemesis 22:26:59 (I still think the learndb sucks.) 22:27:31 Today's featured misreading: "I was always grumpy and cylindrical!" 22:28:44 `? M–rdalsjökull 22:28:45 M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. 22:30:14 makes sense 22:31:17 i remember the volcano, but not why that was added with html entities 22:31:40 context is probably the most volatile substance in the universe. 22:32:08 also why an – 22:33:04 * boily shrugs 22:33:09 most volatile compound in the universe is C2N14, hth. 22:34:00 1-diazidocarbamoyl-5-azidotetrazole, woo yea 22:35:03 boily: hm, regarding unmangling, i guess we haven't deleted many quotes since you started the pdf? it used to be a semi-regular event. 22:35:35 right. 22:36:12 as a result, there are far more new than old quotes, i think 22:36:52 we could always start again. 22:36:57 there's lots of ones that deserve deleting. :p 22:37:14 elliott: you have full commit access rights to the repo. please yourself! 22:37:21 -!- TieSoul-mobile has joined. 22:37:21 I meant in HackEgo. 22:37:22 well, we had one yesterday, which is why boily asked 22:37:25 Bicyclidine: be careful to mention that only in approperiate contexts. people might hear it and run for their lives thinking there's some danger. 22:37:27 I'm not touching wisdom.pdf. 22:37:32 Hey 22:37:42 hey 22:37:49 hiesoul 22:37:52 `? shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj 22:37:53 shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj is the reason why the USA don't use the metric system. 22:38:07 seriously, I don't know what goes through your mind when you decide to add this. 22:38:18 i doubt that was my mind 22:38:28 (i did the lystrosaur one, i'm pretty sure) 22:39:22 elliott: that one isn't from me. or if it is, I deny any responsibility. 22:39:49 the repository should allow that to be checked easily 22:39:52 `? sgeolang 22:39:53 sgeolang currently is either J or Io. 22:39:56 this is, like, years out of date. 22:40:27 what is sgeolang today? i think he said something about ruby recently 22:40:34 https://twitter.com/PHP_CEO 22:40:50 I think it would be cool if Sgeo started speaking in different natural languages every month. 22:40:51 boily: what is the context for the draconic volcanno 22:41:03 there's an alternate universe in which this is a conlangs channel and that happens. 22:41:34 ooh 22:41:35 quintopia: I have no fungotting clue about that one. let me grep through the logs... 22:41:36 boily: i was only so excited to see you too, and it 22:41:46 can that alternate universe be this one? 22:41:51 fungot: I remember last time you were excited to see me. 22:41:51 boily: ( not something)...) it can always be reverted."? 22:41:56 quintopia: with enough engineering. 22:42:02 sufff' saô nia pinta&n 22:42:03 one language a month sounds pretty fast, you'd need mechanical help 22:43:31 quintopia: 2014-02-13 19:07:36 metasepia an active volcano in southern Iceland, with an elevation of 970 m, covered by the southeastern part of the M–rdalsjökull Glacier. 22:43:44 (still, it doesn't answer why the ndash.) 22:44:18 or why it became draconic 22:44:30 and how KATL got translated to iceland 22:44:50 `addquote IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE WHERE SGEO DOES NATLANGS INSTEAD OF PROGLANGS: Jeg vet ikke om norsk er noe for meg, i vs. på for stedsnavn virker veldig kronglete. 22:44:52 1213) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE WHERE SGEO DOES NATLANGS INSTEAD OF PROGLANGS: Jeg vet ikke om norsk er noe for meg, i vs. på for stedsnavn virker veldig kronglete. 22:45:18 here we go... 22:45:25 you know, 'natural language' means one that's actually... natural, right? if it's a conlang made to look like a natural language that's just that 22:45:55 Bicyclidine: which is why i didn't use a conlang 22:46:10 Bicyclidine: but sgeo talks about non-esoteri languages here 22:46:11 ooh 22:46:12 *esoteric 22:46:16 so they'd be natural languages. 22:46:18 it clearly says "norsk" 22:46:21 cmon 22:46:31 people make conlangs that have cognates with real languages! 22:46:55 google knows the difference 22:49:01 quintopia: KATL is presumably iceland because of Katla 22:49:20 oerjan: ok 22:49:33 the learndb is esoteric jokes 22:50:25 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:50:53 -!- mhi^ has joined. 22:51:54 hm is J_Arcane idle or not 22:53:21 J_Arcane: are you there 22:56:12 -!- edwardk has joined. 23:00:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CYLINDRICAL CHICKEN). 23:00:17 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:00:37 [wiki] [[Nest]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40221&oldid=40212 * Oerjan * (+148) I disapprove of removing dead links without notice. Also we generally don't use level 1 sections here. And remove extra spacing. 23:11:14 [wiki] [[Logique]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40222&oldid=40218 * Oerjan * (+89) formatting 23:16:51 i wonder how many pages in the wiki starts with "... is an esoteric programming language" 23:17:14 a lot. 23:19:13 is an esoteric programming language when preceded by its quotation 23:20:14 let's make stats 23:20:31 how many percent of pages 23:22:49 thinking about it, thaz sounds terrible 23:23:04 how would you say that? 23:23:13 "what percentage"? 23:23:24 what fraction 23:23:40 that kinda makes sence 23:24:15 i'd think of a set rather than a number on this one, though 23:29:27 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:30:17 http://sprunge.us/ThdK <- crude approximation 23:30:56 (It looks at all revisions, so some appear several times, if the matching part has been edited.) 23:31:48 (Also an old XML dump I had around, since the mysqldump is harder to Perl-oneline for.) 23:33:00 that's less than expected 23:34:17 Oh, it's missing all pages that link [[esoteric programming language]]. Let's strip those. 23:35:44 http://sprunge.us/fgHK that's quite a bit more 23:45:37 gah hit my laptop's go-to-sleep button by accident 23:46:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:47:21 why isn't IE offering to reopen my tabs :( 23:48:35 oh f it killed the touchpad driver, i have to actually let the reboot finish 23:50:00 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:51:07 What's the best natural language to describe a new conlang in? 23:51:22 no, Sgeo. 23:53:04 elliott: takk 23:53:47 (Apparently Google Translate can't translate thank you???) 23:53:52 ( ) 23:53:52 (input):1:1: error: no implicit 23:53:52 arguments allowed 23:53:52 here, expected: ":", 23:53:52 dependent type signature, 23:53:52 end of input↵… 23:53:57 thanks, idris-bot 23:54:11 you ruined it 23:56:33 -!- TieSoul-mobile has changed nick to FLAK. 23:57:03 -!- FLAK has changed nick to TieSoul-mobile. 23:58:14 Hey that was for another channel and unrelated to this 23:58:18 Kbye 23:59:39 -!- TieSoul-mobile has quit (Quit: Bye).